Podcasts about Chinese Americans

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, in honor of Halloween, we get a solo Jiaoying as she discusses some of the paranormal and creepy experiences she's had in her life! From being locked in haunted houses to having her grandma's curse protecting her from bad vibes, this episode is filled with spooky (and hilarious) stories. Also don't forget Jiaoying's debut special drops on Hulu November 8th! #jiaoyingsummers #comedy #HuluAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Friday Focus provides listeners with a focused, half-hour masterclass on the big issues, events and trends driving the news and current events. The show features Janice Gross Stein, the founding director of the Munk School of Global Affairs and bestselling author, in conversation with Rudyard Griffiths, Chair and moderator of the Munk Debates. Rudyard and Janice preview our upcoming 2025 autumn mainstage Munk Debate on the Two-State Solution taking place on December 3rd in Toronto. What can we expect from the team of Ehud Olmert and Tzipi Livni, who believe Israel's future depends on pursuing two states for two peoples? Can the team of Ayelet Shaked and Micheal Oren make a compelling case that it is in Israel's best interest not to pursue this path? Rudyard explains how and why we landed on this debate and these speakers. In the second half of the show Rudyard and Janice turn to Chinese-American relations following Trump's trade meeting this week with Xi Jinping. The US backed down on a range of tariff threats and most importantly on high tech exports to China. Why did Trump agree to this? There is a codependency between these two superpowers that will only break when either China is able to manufacture advanced AI chips or the US breaks China's monopoly on critical rare earth minerals. Does Trump have the patience and resolve to stay the course? And how should Canada pursue its own trade relationship with China in order to protect our interests and specifically the struggling auto sector? To support the Friday Focus podcast consider becoming a donor to the Munk Debates for as little as $25 annually, or $.50 per episode. Canadian donors receive a charitable tax receipt. This podcast is a project of the Munk Debates, a Canadian charitable organization dedicated to fostering civil and substantive public dialogue. More information at www.munkdebates.com.

Dimes and Judas discuss Erin O'Toole at war with Canadian Nationalism, the Sad Cult of Robotheism, a report by RAND about the future of Chinese/American relations, and lastly a test of how the average radical might engage rhetorically with a dope on the street! Lastly, on this edition of The Copepranos Society, Dimes meets with Canadian engineer and political commentator MartyUpNorth to discuss the technology sector in Canada, how to survive the Canadian outdoors, and the unique form of politics emerging from Alberta. Stream begins at 10:39.

"To me, that ark is: engaging deeply with our traditions. It's reclaiming some of what we lost when we were assimilating and trying to fit in. We have thousands of years of text that have such wisdom about the human condition, about how to be a good person, and lead a worthy life . . . What we can really do is, we can be Jews. And to be a Jew has always been to be different." Sarah Hurwitz—former White House speechwriter and New York Times bestselling author of Here All Along—returns to People of the Pod to discuss her new book, As a Jew: Reclaiming Our Story from Those Who Blame, Shame, and Try to Erase Us. Hurwitz reflects on why antisemitism remains, in her words, "the least mysterious phenomenon," and how Jews can reclaim pride, wisdom, and purpose through Jewish text, practice, and community. Drawing from her work as a hospital chaplain and her conversations with Jewish students on campus, she makes a powerful case for reconnecting with the depth and resilience of Jewish tradition. Key Resources: AJC's Translate Hate Glossary AJC's Efforts to Support the Hostages Listen – AJC Podcasts: Architects of Peace The Forgotten Exodus People of the Pod Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Transcript of the Interview: Manya Brachear Pashman:     During the Obama administration, Sarah Hurwitz served as senior speech writer for President Barack Obama and chief speech writer for First Lady Michelle Obama. But after she left the White House, she did a little bit of soul searching, and in her mid 30s, reconnected with her Judaism. She wrote about it in a book titled Here All Along, and joined us at the time to talk about it. Sarah has returned with us this week to talk about the book that followed, titled As a Jew: Reclaiming Our Story from Those Who Blame, Shame, and Try to Erase Us.  Sarah, welcome back to People of the Pod. Sarah Hurwitz:  Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So your title has a very powerful accusation. So tell us who is blaming, shaming and trying to erase us? Sarah Hurwitz:   Yeah. So, you know, it's funny. My first book, as you know, was this love letter toJudaism. This, this journey of discovery of Jewish tradition, and I loved it so much, and I wanted to share it. You know, as I was writing it, I was thinking, Oh, where has this been all my life. Kind of a lovely, almost rhetorical question. But after it came out, a few things kind of happened that made me actually ask that question more seriously. Like, Wait, why did I not see any of the 4000 years of Jewish wisdom growing up?  The first thing was, I trained to be a volunteer hospital chaplain, and you know, chaplaincy is multifaith, open to chaplains of all backgrounds. But you know, the training was kind of weirdly Christian. You know, we would talk about our ministry and our theology. And I was told that prayer is God, please heal so and so who's right here in front of me, and I'm just making this prayer up spontaneously, and they can hear me, and that's prayer. And everyone prays that way, I was told. I said, You know that that's not really a common form of Jewish prayer. But I was told, No, no, as long as you don't say Jesus, it is universal. That's interesting.  And then something else that happened is I visited a college campus probably a year before October 7, and I was talking to students there at the Hillel, talking to a bunch of Jewish students. And one of them asked me, What did you do to respond to antisemitism when you were in college? And I was so stunned, I didn't even understand the question at first. And then I said, I didn't, not once, never. Not a single time did I deal with antisemitism.  And the kids just looked kind of shocked, like they didn't believe me. And they started sharing stories of the antisemitism they were facing on campus. And I thought, uh oh, something's going on here. And then I really began kind of taking a deep dive into my identity.  Of like, wait, so why did I spend my whole life being like, oh, I'm just a cultural Jew. I knew nothing about Jewish culture. Which is a beautiful way to be Jewish, being a cultural Jew, but I knew nothing about history, language, anything like that. When I said I'm an ethnic Jew, but Jews are of every ethnicity, so that's nonsense.  Or I'd say social justice is my Judaism, but I didn't know anything about what Judaism said about social justice. Unlike these wonderful Jews who do know about social justice and spend their lives acting out Jewish social justice.  And so I took a deep dive into history, and what I discovered was 2000 years of antisemitism and anti-Judaism and 200 years of Jews in Western Europe in a very understandable attempt to escape that persecution, kind of erasing many of our traditions. And I think that was kind of my answer to, where has this been all my life? And also my answer to, why did I have such an apologetic Jewish identity for so much of my life? Manya Brachear Pashman:     In my introduction, I left off half the title of your first book because it was very long, but I am curious, kind of, when did you realize . . . well, let me give the full title of your book, it's Here All Along: Finding Meaning, Spirituality, and a Deeper Connection to Life--in Judaism (After Finally Choosing to Look There).  So I guess, how was that delayed connection to Judaism, can you elaborate a little bit more about how it was tied to these forces that you just talked about? Sarah Hurwitz:  Yeah, so, you know, something that I didn't really fully understand, I had intimations of this, but didn't really understand this, is that, you know, 2000 years ago, early Christianity very much defined itself against Judaism. There was actually a name for this, the Aversos Judeos tradition, which means against the Jews in Latin.  And you know, early Church Fathers very much were defining Christianity against Judaism, because back then, both of these traditions had originated from Judaism. And you know they parted ways at some point, and the Church Fathers were really trying to distinguish Christianity from Judaism, and to get people to stop kind of practicing both traditions. This tradition really continues with Judaism defined as unspiritual, legalistic, depraved, dead, spiritually superseded. A lot of very, very ugly tropes that kind of have common themes that say that Jews are diabolically powerful, so supernaturally powerful, you can't even believe it. They are also profoundly depraved, evil, bloodthirsty, perverse, and they're in a conspiracy to hurt you. So there may be very few of them, but man, they are working together to really do harm.  And you see these three themes kind of making their way through history, unfortunately, all the way basically, until the Holocaust. And I based a lot of my writing on the work of a number of really distinguished Christian scholars who make this argument. It's actually a pretty common argument among Christian scholars.  And, you know, in recent decades, the church has very much disavowed its historic anti-Judaism and has worked very hard to, you know, fight antisemitism in the church. But, you know, these things really did kind of continue on through the 20th century. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So you do describe in your book moments when you got oddly defensive about your Judaism, or perhaps a bit revisionist about Jewish history and the origin of Jewish traditions, or the reason why they exist now in modern day. Can you elaborate on some of those moments for our listeners and explain how you've self-corrected thatdefense? Sarah Hurwitz:  You know, I think a lot of it took the form of, oh, I'm Jewish, but not that Jewish. It was just sort of this immediate, but I'm not one of those Jews. You know, those really Jewish Jews. Well, I'm sorry, would it be a problem if I were? What if social justice wasn't my Judaism, but Judaism was my Judaism? Would that be okay? You know, just beginning to notice, like, Why am I always kind of pushing it away, claiming that I'm not too Jewish? That's a very strange way to announce someone's identity. I think, you know, Dara Horn has actually a really, quite an amazing essay called The Cool Kids, and she talks about these two different types of antisemitism. And one is this kind of eliminationist antisemitism which says the Jews are bad, there's nothing they can do to be good. We must kill them. And you know, that is the Holocaust, pogroms. We learn about that kind of antisemitism in school. But there's another kind of antisemitism, which is conversionist, which says, yes, the Jews are bad, but there is something they can do to be okay and saved. And that is, they can disavow whatever we, the majority, find disgusting about Jewish civilization.  So you know, back in the day, it was, reject Jewish religion and convert to Christianity, and you'll be saved, maybe. For some amount of time, possibly. In my parents and grandparents generation, it was, you know, reject your last name, get a nose job. Stop being so "Jewy", be a little bit more "waspy," and then maybe we'll let you into our club. Then maybe we'll accept you.  And today, what you see is you have to reject your ancestral homeland, you know, reject Israel, and then you'll be okay. And, you know, I visited 27 college campuses, and I kind of saw how this sometimes takes on the format of almost like a Christian conversion narrative, where it goes something like, you know, growing up, my rabbi and my parents told me Israel was perfect and amazing and a utopia. And then I got to college, and I realized that actually it's a colonialist, Nazi, racist society, and I had an epiphany. I saw the light, and I took anti-Zionism and anti-colonialism into my heart, and now I'm saved. Now I'm a good Jew. And their classmates are like, now you're a good Jew.  And as Dara Horn puts it, this kind of antisemitism involves the weaponization of shame. It involves really trying to convince Jews that there is something fundamentally shameful about some aspect of themselves, their identity, their tradition. And today, that thing is Israel. This idea that there's something fundamentally . . . it's like the original sin of the world. Manya Brachear Pashman:     And you also talk about the tradition of circumcision, and how that came up, and you found yourself explaining this to someone. Can you elaborate on that for our listeners? Which I thought was really interesting.  Sarah Hurwitz:  This was during an encounter with a patient. I was doing a chaplaincy shift, and  usually I don't tell my patients my religious background, I'm very neutral, unless they're Jewish, in which case, I do tell them I'm Jewish. But, you know, I was finishing up a conversation with this very lovely lady. And she was very curious about my background. And so I told her, you know, I'm Jewish. And her eyes kind of lit up, and she said, Oh, you know, many of my neighbors are Jewish. I've actually been to two brisses in the past month.  And she just, you know, and she was so lovely, like, she actually seemed to be just really happy to be included in this tradition of her neighbors. And I got weirdly defensive, and was like, Oh, well, you know, just so, you know, medical professionals, they say whether you circumcise or don't circumcise, it's really, it's equally safe either way. And you know, we often, you know, when we do brisses, they're often done by a medical provider.  And I'm going on and on and like, this woman did not say the slightest negative thing about this tradition, but suddenly I am defensive. Suddenly it's like, Huh, interesting. You know, I think that it was an illustration to me of the way that we can sometimes really imbibe all of the kind of negative views about Jews and Jewish traditions that are around us, and become defensive, and sometimes we don't even realize that they're there. It's almost like they're the air that we breathe. Manya Brachear Pashman:     But let me challenge that and push back a little bit. I mean, is it okay to not agree with some of the traditions of the Jewish faith and be open about your disagreement with that? I certainly know a lot of Christians who don't like things that emerge from their tradition or from their community. Is that okay? Or is it not when Judaism is threatened? Sarah Hurwitz:  So I actually do think that's okay. You know, I have no problem with that, but I think the problem in this situation was that I have no problem with circumcision, but I'm suddenly getting defensive and trying to convince this woman that it's not weird. And I'm thinking, why am I doing this? It was very interesting to me that I felt so suddenly defensive and anxious. You know, it was very surprising to me. Manya Brachear Pashman:     And similarly, it's okay to criticize Israeli policy too, right? I mean, it's totally acceptable.  Sarah Hurwitz:  Absolutely. This is the thing that I'm so confused about. Where people are saying, well, you know, you're saying that it's not okay to criticize Israel. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Have you been to Israel? It's like the national pastime there to criticize the government. I criticize the Israeli government all the time, as do millions of American Jews.  This idea that this is somehow… that we're somehow reacting to criticism of Israel, that's ridiculous. I think what we're reacting to is not criticism of Israel, but it's something else. You know, when you have students on a college campus saying from water to water, Palestine should be Arab, or Israelis are Nazis. I just, with all due respect, I don't see that as criticism. Nor would I see it as criticism if, God forbid, a Jewish student ever said from water to water, Israel should be Jewish, or, Palestinians are terrorists. That is hateful, disgusting, racist, eliminationist language. And if I ever heard a Jewish student say that, I mean, let me tell you, I would have quite a talking to with that kid.  So that's not criticism. Criticism is, I am vehemently opposed and abhor, this policy, this ideology, this action, for these reasons. That's criticism. And I think you can use real strong language to do that kind of criticism. But there's a difference between a criticism and slurs and baseless accusations. And I think we need to be just clear about that. Manya Brachear Pashman:     All right, so you just use the term from water to water instead of from river to sea. Was that on purpose? Sarah Hurwitz:  Not necessarily. It's just a clearer illustration of what I think from the river to the sea really means, you know, I think  that is the Arabic that is used. Infrom the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free. It's like, you can kind of make an argument that this is about Palestinian Liberation. And okay, fair enough. But I think when you get the from water to water, it shall be Arab, that's when I think there's less of an argument that it's about freedom, and it seems a little bit more eliminationist to me. Manya Brachear Pashman:     Interesting. I've not heard that before. But I like that. So you call antisemitism the least mysterious phenomenon. Can you please explain what you mean by that? Sarah Hurwitz:  Yeah, you know, I think, like a lot of young people, my antisemitism education was mainly just Holocaust education. And I kind of walked away thinking like, huh, how wild that the civilized world just lost its mind in the mid-20th century and started killing Jews. That's so shocking and disturbing, you know, why is that? And the answer was kind of like, well, you know, the Germans lost World War I. They blamed the Jews. There was a depression. They blamed the Jews.  And when you ask why the Jews, it's like, well, because of prejudice and scapegoating. I'm like, Okay, right. But again, why the Jews? Prejudice and scapegoating, that's the answer. It's like, well, actually, the answer really is because of 2000 years of Christian anti-Judaism that preceded that. It wasn't mysterious why the Jews were targeted.  This was a 2000-year neural groove that had been worn into the Western world psyche. And this is not my argument. This is the argument of countless Christian scholars whose brilliant work I cite. And so I think that the unfortunate thing about some forms of Holocaust education is that it leaves you with the impression that, oh, this is so mysterious, it's just kind of eternal and kind of comes out of nowhere. Or even worse, you might even think maybe we did something to deserve this. But it's not mysterious. I can show you its path through history.  And I think it's very important that Jews understand this history. And look, I think this is very hard to teach in an average American public school. Because, you know, we live in a country where, you know, saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is very upsetting for some people. They feel very threatened and triggered by that.  So for a teacher to say, like, Okay, kids today we're going to learn about how 2000 years of Christian anti-Judaism paved the way for the Holocaust . . . I don't think that's going to go well. Even if many mainstream Christian scholars would agree that that's true, this is a challenge that we face. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So you have continued, as you said, to visit college campuses where antisemitism has been an issue since October 7, more of an issue than it even was beforehand. And yet, when you were at Harvard and Harvard Law, you've said you could have walked through Harvard Yard wrapped in an Israeli flag and no one would have said a word or reacted negatively. So what has changed, and does it signal a more general shift on campuses of kind of uncensored, unbridled speech?  In other words, if black students support black lives matter, or gay students are marching for pride, do you feel like there's a sense that students who disagree with that from either the right or the left, have kind of claimed a license to criticize that too? Sarah Hurwitz:  No. I try to explain to college students when they say, Well, okay, my campus isn't that bad, you know, I can wear my Jewish star, and I won't get, you know, harassed or ostracized. And I say, like, okay, great, if it's not that bad, I'll just wear my Israel t-shirt and we'll see how it goes. They're like, No.  And then I have to go through this long litany of like, okay, if your black classmate said to you, well, this campus isn't so bad for black students, but I can't wear my Black Lives Matter t-shirt or else I'll be harassed and ostracized. I hope you would say that's not okay, that's racism, pretty clear. Or if your queer classmate said, Well, this campus is pretty good for queer people, but I can't wear my pride t-shirt, I hope you would say, That's not pretty good. That's homophobia.  You know, when the majority feels entitled to decide how the minority can embody and express their identity, I think we have a really serious problem. And  sometimes the kids will push back on me. Well, no, no, but the problem isn't being Jewish. It's Israel. I'm like, okay, but if your Chinese American classmate wore a t-shirt that said China, even if all your classmates knew that the Chinese government had been interning a million Muslim Uighurs in camps and subjecting them to horrific human rights violations, would they harass and ostracize her?  And they're like, Well, probably not. Right, because they would assume that she has a relationship to China that maybe involves having heritage there, or maybe she studied abroad there, or maybe she's studying Chinese, maybe she has family there. I think they would assume that she has some connection to the country that doesn't involve agreeing with the policies of the Chinese government, and Jewish students on campus really aren't afforded that courtesy.  And I'll tell you, most of the Jewish students I spoke with on campus, they, like me, are extremely critical of this current Israeli government. Extremely, extremely critical. They have all sorts of criticisms about what's happening in Gaza, of the occupation.  You know, their views are quite nuanced and complex, but there is no room given for that. You know, I think on some college campuses, Israel has been put into the same bucket as the KKK and the Nazi party. So I can't say to you, look, you know, I'm a Nazi, but I'm a liberal Nazi. Or, oh, you know, I'm in the KKK, but I'm not racist. It's like, come on, right?  These are vile entities with which no connection is acceptable, period. And I think once Israel ceases to be a country and instead becomes the representation of all evil in the world, there's really no relationship that you can have with it that's acceptable. And I think that is a pretty devastating place for it to be today.  And I'll tell you, I think it's a really challenging moment right now where I, like a lot of American Jews, I'm a Zionist. I believe that Jews have a right to a safe and secure home state in their ancestral homeland. I believe we have the right to national independence and self determination, like Japanese people have in Japan and Latvians have in Latvia, and on and on. And you know, we've run that experiment of Jewish powerlessness for 2000 years, and it didn't go well. Even as late as the 20th century. It wasn't just that two thirds of Jews in Europe got wiped out because of the Holocaust.  It's that nearly a million Jews who lived in Arab lands had to flee persecution, most of them to Israel. It's that 2 million Russian Jews had to flee persecution, half of them to Israel. It's that 10s of 1000s of Ethiopian Jews, I can go on and on. So we know, we've run that experiment of Jewish statelessness, and it doesn't go well.  And at the same time, we are looking at this current Israeli government, and we are appalled. We're appalled by the ideology, we're appalled by many of the policies. And you know, for me as an American, this feels very familiar, because I love this country. I'm a proud, patriotic American, and I happen to very much disagree with the current president. I happen to be very much appalled by the current president's policies and ideology. And so, I think many people are able to hold that, but somehow it's harder with Israel, because of what is in the air right now. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So, really you're saying that antisemitism has distorted history. Distorted people's understanding of Israel's history, their understanding of modern Israel's rebirth and existence. It spawned anti-Zionism. Correct?  Sarah Hurwitz:   Yes. Manya Brachear Pashman:     Did you encounter that during your time in the Obama administration? Do you see it now, in hindsight or or is it a more recent emergence? Sarah Hurwitz:   I think this is more recent. I mean, you know, probably in some spaces it was, you know, I was in the administration from 2009 to 2017. I never once saw any kind of anti-Zionism or antisemitism. I mean, it was one of the best places to be a proud, passionate Jew. I knew my colleagues could not have been more supportive of my Jewish exploration. They were so proud when I wrote my first book.  So I never saw any of this ever, once. And I think, you know, I think what is so confusing about this is that we often think about antisemitism as a kind of personal prejudice, like, oh, you know, Jews are fill in the blank, nasty thing. They are dirty, cheap, crass. I don't want my daughter to marry one. I don't want one in my country club.  You don't really see that kind of antisemitism in the circles where I travel anymore. What you see instead is more of political antisemitism, which is antisemitism as a kind of conspiracy theory that says that we, the majority, are engaged in a grand moral project, and the only thing stopping us are these Jews. We the majority are Christianizing the Roman Empire.  The only thing stopping us, these Jews who won't convert. We the majority are bringing about the brotherhood of man, the great communist revolution. The only thing stopping us, these capitalist Jews. We the Germans, are bringing about the great, racially pure Aryan fatherland. The only thing stopping us – these race-polluting Jews.  And today in America, you see it on the right and the left. On the right, it's, you know, we white Christian Americans are bringing back white Christian civilization to America. And the only thing stopping us are these Jews who are importing black and brown immigrants to replace white people. That is the extremely racist and antisemitic theory known as the Great Replacement theory. It is an ugly, disgusting lie.  On the left you have, you know, we this very moral group of people. we are bringing about the revolution of anti-colonialism, anti-Zionism. And the only thing stopping us are these colonialist Zionists, which is a polite way of saying Jews. And so, you know, I think it's very important to understand, as Yossi Klein Halevi, the journalist, puts it, you know, what you see again and again is whatever is the worst thing in a society, that is what the Jews are deemed to be. Whatever is the worst thing among a particular population, that is what the Jews are deemed to be. And I think we're kind of seeing that on both the right and the left today. Manya Brachear Pashman:     If antisemitism defines so much, or has defined so much of Jewish identity, how do we reclaim that? How have you reclaimed that? And how have you found joy in your Jewish identity, especially after doing this book and immersing yourself and all of this extremely depressing perspective? Sarah Hurwitz:   I hear this kind of line among many Jews that breaks my heart. It's this sort of self-flagellation, of like, if we just had the right PR campaign, if we just had the right tweet, then we would fight antisemitism. It's our fault, we're doing such a bad job fighting antisemitism. And, you know, I love the ambition there. I think that is so sweet.  But there are 16 million of us in the whole world. That's with an M, million, like the size of like, the fifth largest city in China. We are a Chinese city. There are billions of people who don't really love us out there. And the idea that we, this tiny group of people, is going to somehow change the minds of billions of people. I really respect the ambition, but I think that's a tough one.  I think it's sort of like trying to bail out a tsunami with buckets. You know, if enough of us do it, I'm sure we can make a difference. And I have such respect for the people who are doing that work. I think it's very important. But I also would just suggest that maybe we should put a little more of our energy into building an ark to weather the storm.  And you know, to me, that ark is, engaging deeply with our traditions. It's reclaiming, I think, some of what we lost when we were assimilating and trying to fit in. You know, we have thousands of years of text that have such wisdom about the human condition, about how to be a good person and lead a worthy life and find profound spiritual connection. We have just so many beautiful traditions. And so I think that what we can really do is, we can be Jews. And to be a Jew has always been to be different.  That was kind of our value proposition thousands of years ago when we came along and said, hey guys, monotheism. Totally different way of thinking. We said, hey, every human being is created in the image of God, which is an idea that every human being is infinitely worthy. Which, again, this is the idea that underlies things like liberalism, democracy, human rights. These are really Earth-shatteringly different counter cultural ideas, and we have so many more of those that I still think the world needs today.  So I think that rather than just being anti-anti-semites, that we can be proud Jews instead, and we can really focus on becoming more learned, more vibrant members of our communities, you know, engaging in more of our traditions and our rituals.  I also think, you know, Dara Horn has been doing a lot of great work about educating kids about Jewish civilization. Rather than having young people only know about the Jews via the Holocaust, she really wants to teach young people about Jewish civilization, ideas, and people. I think that is a very, very powerful and very helpful idea. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So how are you doing this? How do you spend each week? How do you reclaim some of these traditions and joy? Sarah Hurwitz:    For me, it's studying. That's really how I engage, you know, I have various chavrutas or I study Jewish texts. I love reading Jewish books, and I love participating in the Jewish community. You know, I love engaging with various Jewish organizations, you know, serving on various committees, and just trying to be part of this project of reclaiming Judaism, of making it more accessible to more Jews. This is what I love doing, and I'll be starting in January. I'm actually going to be starting a rabbinic program at the Hartman Institute. It's a part time program.  And I'm not not planning to be a congregational rabbi, but I do want to keep writing books, and I am really grateful for this opportunity to get a much deeper, more thorough Jewish education than the one I've kind of given to myself, and, you know, kind of cobbled together. I think this is going to be a really extraordinary opportunity. So I'm very excited about that.  Manya Brachear Pashman:     Oh, wow. Well, congratulations. I look forward to welcoming you back to the podcast and calling you Rabbi.  Sarah Hurwitz: Thank you. Manya Brachear Pashman:     Thank you so much for joining us, Sarah. Sarah Hurwitz:  Such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.   

Frank Xu joins the show. He is Co-Chair Chair of Chinese Americans for the Constitution (CAFC) - Group is fighting PROP 50 in California which would destroy GOP congressman in CA. Open phones, D62 and more wrap the show.

Welcome to Manna for the Movement, short devotionals from the CCDA community to encourage you to meet with God today, wherever you find yourself on your journey. This series focuses on the theme of Shalom—a concept encompassing wholeness, well-being, justice, development, and harmony. It speaks to a state of right relationship with God, with one another, and with creation, where nothing is missing and nothing is broken.In this episode, Marie Moy leads us in meditating on Jeremiah 6:13-16b through the practice of Lectio Divina.Marie Moy serves as the Director of Operations, and is a member of the Restorative Practices training and implementation team at Erie County Restorative Justice Coalition (ECRJC). ECRJC's mission is to promote racial and social justice through Restorative Practices providing training, coaching, consulting, and restorative responses, including Restorative Justice Conferencing in lieu of traditional punitive measures. Marie grew up in a small town in northern Indiana, where her parents owned a Chinese-American restaurant. As children, she and her sisters attended an independent Baptist church. Marie first learned of Christian Community Development while attending Renovation Church in Buffalo in 2010. She participated in CCDA's El Camino del Inmigrante in 2016 with approximately 70 others to bring attention to the plight of immigrants. Marie is a graduate of Northeastern Seminary at Roberts Wesleyan College in Rochester, NY with MA in Theology & Social Justice from, and of Indiana University, Bloomington with a BS in Biochemistry. Marie integrates her background in science and theology to bring just practices to the operations of organizations, and is particularly interested in creating spaces without traditional hierarchy that are inclusive and supportive of marginalized communities. As a second-generation Asian American, Marie is passionate about immigration reform in addition to her work with ECRJC to end mass incarceration, and restore relationships and communities Marie is married with two adult children, and a small Cavalier King Charles/poodle mix named Chani. She is a member of the CCDA Board and Leadership Cohort 8, and the John R. Oishei Foundation Karen Lee Spalding Oishei Fellows for Leaders of Color. She is embarking on sabbatical to spend time with God, and exploration of embodied restorative practices after a long season in nonprofit work.Learn more about CCDA and how you can get involved at ccda.org. Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee speaks with spouses of detained refugees. We hear about the similarities and challenges of Hmong and Nepali speaking Bhutanese refugees. We also speak with Asian Law Caucus' Aisa Villarosa about the ongoing campaigns for freedom that ALC has been leading along with a host of other community based organizations. Join us: November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.     We Belong! Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express.This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities.We originally recorded this episode a month ago, and today is October 29th. 2025 and I have with me Aisa Villarosa a lawyer with Asian Law Caucus, giving us an update in the cases that we're talking about. Welcome Aisa Apex Express. Aisa Villarosa: Thanks so much, Miko. Miko Lee: Tonight we're gonna be talking with two spouses of detained folks. One is a Nepali speaking Bhutanese community member, and the other is Hmong community member. In the time since we recorded this, there has been a big update with Lue Young's case, and I wonder if you could provide us with that update. Aisa Villarosa: Miko since we last spoke, due to some really hard fought campaigning, both behind the scenes and drawing upon allies across Michigan and really across the country. Lue Yang, received a successful pardon from Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We actually received word shortly before Lue Yang was set to be placed on a very large deportation flight. Once we got word of the pardon, it was off to the races for the legal team to quickly draft some emergency motions for Lue Yang and to realize the power of the pardon before the deportation. Miko Lee: Can we back up for a moment and give for an audience a sense of what that means? Lue Young was incarcerated at a detention facility, which Trump has called the FedEx of detention facilities in, Louisana, and explain to us what happened to him and the other members that were suddenly pulled together onto an airplane. Aisa Villarosa: When these removal flights happen, there's so much confusion, there's so much fear that families undergo, and often it's due to the perseverance of the families that we honestly even know where folks are. Shortly before what we call final staging happens, someone is moved from, in Lue's case, a facility in Michigan to a facility like Alexandria in Louisiana where the planes do take off  from. Families typically look up their loved one on something called the “ice detainee locator.” What's challenging is when final staging starts. Often that person completely disappears from the detainee locator or information gets a bit scrambled. Because ICE has a bit of a sealed box as far as even telling families where, their loved one is. Families are either left to guess or rely on each other. So for Lue Yang and the pardon what is critical for folks to know is that as powerful, as rare as a pardon is, I can't stress how extraordinary this is in these very difficult times. A pardon does not instantly, allow someone to say, walk out of an ice facility. There's, numerous legal filings that need to happen. That is why , the team was so up against the clock. Miko Lee: So let's break this down a little bit around a pardon. What does a pardon mean in our current system? Because as a lay person, you think, oh, they're pardoned. That means they're free and they can go home and be with their family. Tell us a little bit about what a pardon means in our legal system right now. Aisa Villarosa: A pardon is different from a criminal expungement, which folks might be familiar with. In Lue's case, for example, when Lue was younger, he successfully expunged this record, in criminal court. The challenge is that immigration court, is basically the entity that issues something called a “final order of removal.” This document, is basically what powers deportation for folks. An expungement does not get at the final removal order. However, a pardon has that more direct link. The pardon has the weight of what we call “vacating a conviction.” To explain more legalese and hopefully folks can stay with me. A final order of removal is an immigration court order document where , it gives ice the power to do all these deportations We're seeing for the refugee community that Lue Yang belongs to. Often these are quite old orders, and so sometimes a loved one might be detained and they might not even realize that they have a criminal conviction or a final order of removal. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking that down. So we described how he was pulled off the plane that was going for his deportation. Tell us where Lue is at right now. What is happening with his case? Aisa Villarosa: The call to action very much remains what it has been, which is we're calling to bring Lue home. At the moment, Lue is in a facility in Louisiana. Our hope is that Lue can return to Michigan. There is also a call to release Lue on a supervised release. The other component of the legal journey for Lue is something called a motion to reopen. Basically this is how the full weight of the pardon is realized. The motion to reopen calls on the Board of Immigration Appeals to reopen Lue's case, because years ago he got that final removal order, so when someone gets that order, typically their immigration case is closed. This petition says, Hey, he got a pardon. Please reopen Lue's case because the underlying conviction that led to the final removal order. Has been pardoned, right? We are hoping that this motion to reopen will be heard in front of the Board of Immigration Appeals, that we can get a great result and that as the campaign calls for that, Lue can come home. Miko Lee: I know lawyers like you are doing incredible work around the scenes. You did not sleep for two days, filing paperwork to be able to make sure that Lue was pulled off that plane. But what can regular people, what can our audience do to get involved right now? Aisa Villarosa: There's myriad actions along this really terrible deportation pipeline. We're seeing that folks who might not have, any deep knowledge of the immigration system can still be so impactful. We have partners in LA in the faith community and they've started working with community organizations to do things like accompaniment, which is, joining community members like Lue, who often have these ice check-ins. As folks have seen on the news, these check-ins can be really risky because that is where ice arrests can happen. If someone misses their ice check-in, typically that means that a warrant is issued, that immigration forces can come after you. In these cases, community members, particularly folks who are US citizens, accompaniment can be a great way to dig in to show up for our immigrant and refugee siblings. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking down how folks can get involved. It's so important right now in a time where we feel so utterly helpless to be able to make change. Now we're gonna go back to listen to our interview that is with the two spouses, Tika, Basnet, and Ann Vue, and also our current guest, Aisa Villarosa Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, for having me on. We are Hmong. We helped Americans during the Vietnam War. In Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. Because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains they were able to speak with us and use us. Our Hmong, helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, so that they can make it back home. That is our contribution to the American people. When we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Our legacy of helping Americans with the war. that is who we are and what we bring to America. That's who I am. I'm actually the first generation Hmong American. I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. They came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship. We were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. My husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you. Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored. My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Lueisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. We're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. As I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club nobody wants to be a part of with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. Let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: My husband got his removal in 2014 when he was just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home. He's a teenager and with his friend, they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. They just cross from private property. That is where someone saw and call 9 1 1. We came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. My husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. He just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 9 1 1, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police took him to jail, gave a lot of charges. My husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. He feel guilty without knowing those charges. He trusts [00:14:00] Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. My husband said, guilty. At that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the country that you are you never born. Deport To the country, you doesn't even speak their language. The lawyer did not explain my husband you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If those things the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. When they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. When US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. The ICE officer, told my husband, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. It been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. He never did any violation after that. He got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. In 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. I broke down. When they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. We dream a lot of things we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already go through this trauma, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. It is been five month and I really want my husband back. My daughter is, three month old. She need her dad in life 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. He deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. I don't know whether he gonna get killed. Whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. Just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was racially profiled. The neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property. He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: There was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: Right now he's in detention. You live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. What is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: His criminal attorney file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia. His case, that happened in 2013. Our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. He's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. All family is in here. His community love him ,he has family that loves him. We also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE that my husband is not risk to the community or to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. He has a a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. As Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: Lue was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp in 1978. In1979 his parents and him and his older brother Granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. They made it to America right before Halloween. The early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. We all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, . They weren't able to teach us growing up. We had to fend for ourselves. I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. He didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. . Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. It's just a part of growing up as a youth. Because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. It was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice, that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. He even finished a youth advocate program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. A lot of us are from communist countries. We are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. Our parents never talked about it. I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. He literally wrote all of this down, i'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. They asked him, ” what was your upbringing like?” He wrote, “poor” and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, “Lue is remorseful for what has happened and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete.” He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 that's when, immigration showed up at his house. Him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. We'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. We did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lue during the time where we all fled the country. Once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. It's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left. Once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community. We appealed the case. The case was then denied in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the Hmongs during the war, even had a letter where he, also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lue's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lue doesn't have anyone. That goes to Tika's thing too. There's nobody there. Going back to the case once it was denied in 2002. He then was forced to reach out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. In 2006, they actually took his green card and then we again were denied. In 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. They will never allow you guys back. So we were like, okay. So we moved forward. Then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You probably could have a chance to get it. We moved forward to apply for citizenship and for the green card. We were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again. We decided that, we're gonna get his case expunged, and we got his case expunged in 2018. No questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued with our [00:26:00] lives. Very involved in the community. We had six kids . This year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, “Hey, don't worry about it, Lue, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock.” I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. He always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. The money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. Then July 15th he was detained at work, six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they told him they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. He was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. I don't have anyone to come get my bike. I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. My husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and wanna take my bike back. They asked him, “if we let you go, please don't run.” They followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. I'm like, “what? What's going on?” It was just so surreal. I was so shocked. It's a 30 minute drive. When he got there, they were already officers, packed tight in our driveway. We live in the country. There were like five or six cop cars there too. We had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. The officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful. They even, talk to my two older boys like, Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account. We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be in Michigan. They were very open about these steps . My grandma has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. We couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. They did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? So probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming. I don't remember their exact words saying media, but do remember that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community. Because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lue 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. At that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first. Then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much. I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. In both of these amazing women are here supporting their spouses. Both spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. Now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. We're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. We could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. We also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. There are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. What Miko is referring to is largely something that we've observed around the travel  bans. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. A lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? They were not happening until this year. What very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohan's case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. The Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, as criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lue, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lue about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lue, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. Unfortunately in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lue as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma. It almost underscores the importance of Lue, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family. He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. Him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. At that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan. Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohans life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridicuLues. I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lue right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. Here is Lue still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices call to action for Lue. We encourage folks to do that. In terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, and also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and Lue. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: What makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, around in backyard. I wish he was been in the United States like more than , one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. He's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. He doesn't have guide, mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. That is the reason that I really wanna come forward. People can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. The reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. They taught me like people can make mistake and, we shouldn't be same. I really wanna give example to my daughter, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. What is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. My husband deserves second chance. He's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband. There was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. Mai and I are pretty close too. , I just knew if I said anything, Mai's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. I'm glad that she did. I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us. what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lue daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions “well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this?” There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really  with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. Our fathers wanna be around. I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. I hope that we get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. This detainment has been worse than when he did time back in 1997. I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, his family cannot support him. For me, it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. I think his story is really touching me. My husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. My husband is giving person. He love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. That is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Right now people know our story. But if I was silent then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. My husband is number one support system for me, because of him I'm here sharing his story. For years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Ann's story that separating family is not good. It is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. It is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. Paying bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It's been five month. I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lue every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. Just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. Folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions . A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation and, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year. To give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. Unfortunately there are some situations where attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tika's story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe. On November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night.     The post APEX Express – 10.30.25-We Belong! appeared first on KPFA.

A new picture book by a trio of well-known Twin Cities creatives tells the story of an American couple whose social justice writing and activism had wide-ranging influence. They were James Boggs, who was a Black union organizer in Detroit, and Grace Lee Boggs, a Chinese-American philosopher. When they got married in 1954, their interracial relationship was illegal in parts of the country.The new book about their lives is called "Revolutions Are Made of Love." It was written by Sun Yung Shin and Mélina Mangal and illustrated by Leslie Barlow. They spoke with MPR News' Emily Bright. The Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis will host a book launch Saturday from 2-4 p.m. ahead of the book's release on Tuesday.

See what Portland media won't show you. Victoria Taft breaks down the so-called “cleanup” of Antifa's encampment—a carefully timed stunt ahead of a key Ninth Circuit decision. You'll watch how police literally negotiate with Antifa while harassing ordinary citizens just trying to drive home.You'll also hear about the government shutdown and how Democrats are using working families, air traffic safety, and food stamps as political leverage.Then, Victoria speaks with Yukong "Mike" Zhao from Chinese Americans for the Constitution. He shares his firsthand story of escaping communist China, facing harassment in California, and fighting back against Gavin Newsom's radical Prop 50 power grab.#antifa, #portland, #governmentshutdown, #victoria_taft, #mikezhou, #communism,#free_speech, #lawandorder, #pjmedia, #anarchists

Last time we spoke about the beginning of the Wuhan Campaign. As Japanese forces pressed toward central China, Chiang Kai-shek faced a brutal choice: defend Wuhan with costly sieges or unleash a dangerous flood to buy time. The Yellow River breached its banks at Huayuankou, sending a wall of water racing toward villages, railways, and fields. The flood did not erase the enemy; it bought months of breathing room for a battered China, but at a terrible toll to civilians who lost homes, farms, and lives. Within Wuhan's orbit, a mosaic of Chinese forces struggled to unite. The NRA, split into competing war zones and factions, numbered about 1.3 million but fought with uneven equipment and training. The Japanese, deploying hundreds of thousands, ships, and air power, pressed from multiple angles: Anqing, Madang, Jiujiang, and beyond, using riverine forts and amphibious landings to turn the Yangtze into a deadly artery. Yet courage endured as troops held lines, pilots challenged the skies, and civilians, like Wang Guozhen, who refused to betray his country, chose defiance over surrender. The war for Wuhan was not a single battle but a testament to endurance in the face of overwhelming odds.   #173 The Fall of Wuhan Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. In the last episode we began the Battle of Wuhan. Japan captured Anqing and gained air access to Jiujiang, Chinese defenses around the Yangtze River were strained. The southern Yangtze's Ninth War Zone held two key garrisons: one west of Poyang Lake and another in Jiujiang. To deter Japanese assault on Jiujiang, China fortified Madang with artillery, mines, and bamboo booms. On June 24, Japan conducted a surprise Madang landing while pressing south along the Yangtze. Madang's fortress withstood four assaults but suffered heavy bombardment and poison gas. Chinese leadership failures contributed to the fall: Li Yunheng, overseeing Madang, was away at a ceremony, leaving only partial contingents, primarily three battalions from marine corps units and the 313th regiment of the 53rd division, participating, totaling under five battalions. Reinforcements from Pengze were misrouted by Li's orders, arriving too late. Madang fell after three days. Chiang Kai-shek retaliated with a counterattack and rewarded units that recaptured Xiangshan, but further progress was blocked. Li Yunheng was court-martialed, and Xue Weiying executed.   Madang's loss opened a corridor toward Jiujiang. The Japanese needed weeks to clear minefields, sacrificing several ships in the process. With roughly 200,000 Chinese troops in the Jiujiang–Ruichang zone under Xue Yue and Zhang Fukui, the Japanese captured Pengze and then Hukou, using poison gas again during the fighting. The Hukou evacuation cut off many non-combat troops, with over 1,800 of 3,100 soldiers successfully evacuated and more than 1,300 missing drowned in the lake. Two weeks after Hukou's fall, the Japanese reached Jiujiang and overtook it after a five-day battle. The retreat left civilians stranded, and the Jiujiang Massacre followed: about 90,000 civilians were killed, with mass executions of POWs, rapes, and widespread destruction of districts, factories, and transport. Subsequently, the Southern Riverline Campaign saw Japanese detachments along the river advance westward, capturing Ruichang, Ruoxi, and other areas through October, stretching Chinese defenses thin as Japan pressed toward Wuchang and beyond. On July 26, 1938, the Japanese occupied Jiujiang and immediately divided their forces into three routes: advancing toward De'an and Nanchang, then striking Changsha, severing the Yue-Han Railway, and surrounding Wuhan in an effort to annihilate the Chinese field army. The advance of the 101st and 106th Infantry Divisions slowed south of the Yangtze River, yet the Central China Expeditionary Army remained intent on seizing Ruichang and De'an to cut off Chinese forces around Mount Lu. To this end, the 9th and 27th Infantry Divisions were deployed to the sector, with the 9th regarded as an experienced unit that had fought in earlier campaigns, while the 27th was newly formed in the summer of 1938; this contrast underscored the rapidly expanding scope of the war in China as the Japanese Army General Staff continued mobilizing reservists and creating new formations. According to the operational plan, the 101st and 106th Divisions would push south toward De'an to pin Chinese defenders, while the 9th and 27th Divisions would envelop Chinese forces south of the river. Okamura Yasuji ordered five battalions from the 9th to move toward De'an via Ruichang, and the Hata Detachment was tasked with securing the area northwest of Ruichang to protect the 9th's flank. North of the Yangtze, the 6th Infantry Division was to move from Huangmei to Guangji, with Tianjiazhen as the ultimate objective; capturing Tianjiazhen would allow the 11th Army to converge on Wuhan from both north and south of the river.  The operation began when the 9th Division landed at Jiujiang, threatening the left flank of the Jinguanqiao line. The Chinese responded by deploying the 1st Corps to counter the 9th Division's left flank, which threatened the Maruyama Detachment's lines of communication. The Maruyama Detachment counterattacked successfully, enabling the rest of the 9th Division to seize Ruichang on August 24; on the same day, the 9th attacked the 30th Army defending Mount Min. The Chinese defense deteriorated on the mountain, and multiple counterattacks by Chinese divisions failed, forcing the 1st Corps to retreat to Mahuiling. The seizure of Ruichang and the surrounding area was followed by a wave of atrocities, with Japanese forces inflicting substantial casualties, destroying houses, and damaging property, and crimes including murder, rape, arson, torture, and looting devastating many villages and livelihoods in the Ruichang area. After Ruichang and Mount Min fell, the Maruyama Detachment and the 106th Infantry Division advanced on Mahuiling, seeking to encircle Chinese forces from the northwest, with the 106th forming the inner ring and the Maruyama Detachment the outer ring; this coordination led to Mahuiling's fall on September 3. The 27th Infantry Division, arriving in late August, landed east of Xiaochikou, providing the manpower to extend Japanese offensives beyond the Yangtze's banks and outflank Chinese defenders along the river. Its main objective was to seize the Rui-wu highway, a vital route for the continued advance toward Wuhan. After the fall of Mahuiling, Japanese command altered its strategy. The 11th Army ordered the Maruyama Detachment to rejoin the 9th Infantry Division and press westward, while the 101st Infantry Division was to remain at Mahuiling and push south toward De'an along with the 106th Infantry Division. This divergent or “eccentric” offensive aimed to advance on Wuhan while protecting the southern flank. The renewed offensive began on September 11, 1938, with the 9th Infantry Division and Hata Detachment advancing west along the Rui-yang and Rui-wu highways toward Wuhan, followed days later by the 27th Infantry Division. Initially, the Japanese made solid progress from Ruichang toward a line centered on Laowuge, but soon faced formidable Chinese defenses. The 9th and 27th Divisions confronted the Chinese 2nd Army Corps, which had prepared in-depth positions in the mountains west of Sanchikou and Xintanpu. The 27th Division encountered stiff resistance from the 18th and 30th Corps, and although it captured Xiaoao by September 24, its vanguard advancing west of Shujie came under heavy attack from the 91st, 142nd, 60th, and 6th Reserve Infantry Divisions, threatening to encircle it. Only the southward advance of the 101st and 106th Divisions relieved the pressure, forcing the Chinese to redeploy the 91st and 6th Reserve Divisions to the south and thereby loosening the 27th's grip. After the redeployment, the 9th and 27th Divisions resumed their push. The 9th crossed the Fu Shui on October 9 and took Sanjikou on October 16, while the 27th seized Xintanpu on October 18. The Hata Detachment followed, capturing Yangxin on October 18 and Ocheng on October 23, further tightening Japanese control over the highways toward Wuhan. By mid-October, 11th Army commander Okamura Yasuji resolved to sever the Guangzhou-Hankou railway to disrupt Chinese lines. On October 22, the 9th and 27th Divisions attacked toward Jinniu and Xianning. By October 27, the 9th had captured Jinniu and cut the railway; the 27th Division extended the disruption further south. These actions effectively isolated Wuchang from the south, giving the Imperial Japanese Army greater leverage over the southern approaches to Wuhan. The push south by the 101st and 106th Infantry Divisions pressed toward De'an, where they encountered the entrenched Chinese 1st Army Corps. The offensive began on September 16 and by the 24th, elements of the 27th Division penetrated deep into the area west of Baishui Street and De'an's environs. Recognizing the growing crisis, Xue Yue mobilized the nearby 91st and 142nd Divisions, who seized Nanping Mountain along the Ruiwu Line overnight, effectively cutting off the 27th Division's retreat. Fierce combat on the 25th and 26th saw Yang Jialiu, commander of the 360th Regiment of the 60th Division, die a heroic death. Zhang Zhihe, chief of staff of the 30th Group Army and an underground CCP member, commanded the newly formed 13th Division and the 6th Division to annihilate the Suzuki Regiment and recapture Qilin Peak. Learning of the 27th Division's trap, Okamura Yasuji panicked and, on the 25th, urgently ordered the 123rd, 145th, and 147th Infantry Regiments and mountain artillery of the 106th Division on the Nanxun Line, along with the 149th Regiment of the 101st Division on the Dexing Line, to rush to Mahuiling and Xingzi. To adapt to mountain warfare, some units were temporarily converted to packhorse formations. On the 27th, the 106th Division broke through the Wutailing position with force, splitting into two groups and pushing toward Erfangzheng and Lishan. By the 28th, the three regiments and mountain artillery of the 106th Division advanced into the mountain villages of Wanjialing, Leimingguliu, Shibaoshan, Nantianpu, Beixijie, and Dunshangguo, about 50 li west of De'an. On the same day, the 149th Regiment of the 101st Division entered the Wanjialing area and joined the 106th Division. Commanded by Lieutenant General Junrokuro Matsuura, the 106th Division sought to break out of Baicha and disrupt the Nanwu Highway to disrupt the Chinese retreat from De'an. At this juncture, Xue Yue's corps perceived the Japanese advance as a predatory, wolf-like maneuver and deemed it a strategic opportunity to counterattack. He resolved to pull forces from Dexing, Nanxun, and Ruiwu to envelop the enemy near Wanjialing, with the aim of annihilating them. Thus began a desperate, pivotal battle between China and Japan in northern Jiangxi, centered on the Wanjialing area. The Japanese 106th Division found its rear communications cut off around September 28, 1938, as the Chinese blockade tightened. Despite the 27th Division's severed rear and its earlier defeat at Qilin Peak, Okamura Yasuji ordered a renewed push to relieve the besieged 106th by directing the 27th Division to attack Qilin Peak and advance east of Baishui Street. In this phase, the 27th Division dispatched the remnants of its 3rd Regiment to press the assault on Qilin Peak, employing poison gas and briefly reaching the summit. On September 29, the 142nd Division of the 32nd Army, under Shang Zhen, coordinated with the 752nd Regiment of the same division to launch a fierce counterattack on Qilin Peak at Zenggai Mountain west of Xiaoao. After intense fighting, they reclaimed the peak, thwarting the 27th Division's bid to move eastward to aid the 106th. Concurrently, a portion of the 123rd Regiment of the 106th Division attempted a breakout west of Baishui Street. Our 6th and 91st Divisions responded with a determined assault from the east of Xiaoao, blocking the 123rd Regiment east of Baishui Street. The victories at Qilin Peak and Baishui Street halted any merger between the eastern and western Japanese forces, enabling the Chinese army to seal the pocket and create decisive conditions for encircling the 106th Division and securing victory in the Battle of Wanjialing. After the setback at Qilin Peak, Division Commander Masaharu Homma, defying Okamura Yasuji's orders to secure Baishui Street, redirected his focus to Tianhe Bridge under a pretext of broader operations. He neglected the heavily encircled 106th Division and pivoted toward Xintanpu. By September 30, Chinese forces attacked from both the east and west, with the 90th and 91st Divisions joining the assault on the Japanese positions. On October 1, the Japanese, disoriented and unable to pinpoint their own unit locations, telegrammed Okamura Yasuji for air support. On October 2, the First Corps received orders to tighten the encirclement and annihilate the enemy forces. Deployments were made to exploit a numerical advantage and bolster morale, placing the Japanese in a desperate position. On October 3, 1938, the 90th and 91st Divisions launched a concerted attack on Nantianpu, delivering heavy damage to the Japanese force and showering Leimingguliu with artillery fire that endangered the 106th Division headquarters. By October 5, Chinese forces reorganized: the 58th Division of the 74th Army advanced from the south, the 90th Division of the 4th Army from the east, portions of the 6th and 91st Divisions from the west, and the 159th and 160th Divisions of the 65th Army from the north, tightening the surrounding cordon from four directions. On October 6, Xue Yue ordered a counterattack, and by October 7 the Chinese army had effectively cut off all retreat routes. That evening, after fierce hand-to-hand combat, the 4th Army regained the hilltop, standing at a 100-meter-high position, and thwarted any Japanese plan to break through Baicha and sever Chinese retreat toward De'an. By October 8, Lieutenant Colonel Sakurada Ryozo, the 106th Division's staff officer, reported the division's deteriorating situation to headquarters. The telegram signaled the impending collapse of the 106th Division. On October 9, Kuomintang forces recaptured strategic positions such as Lishan, tightening encirclement to a small pocket of about three to four square kilometers in Nantianpu, Leimingguliu, and Panjia. That night, the vanguard attacked the Japanese 106th Division's headquarters at Leimingguliu, engaging in close combat with the Japanese. Matsuura and the division's staff then took up arms in defense. In the early hours of October 10, Japanese forces launched flares that illuminated only a narrow arc of movement, and a limited number of troops fled northwest toward Yangfang Street. The two and a half month battle inflicted tremendous casualties on the Japanese, particularly on the 101st and 106th divisions. These two formations began with a combined strength of over 47,000 troops and ultimately lost around 30,000 men in the fighting. The high casualty rate hit the Japanese officer corps especially hard, forcing General Shunroku Hata to frequently airdrop replacement officers onto the besieged units' bases throughout the engagement. For the Chinese, the successful defense of Wanjialing was pivotal to the Wuhan campaign.  Zooming out at a macro level a lot of action was occurring all over the place. Over in Shandong, 1,000 soldiers under Shi Yousan, who had defected multiple times between rival warlord cliques and operated as an independent faction, occupied Jinan and held it for a few days. Guerrillas briefly controlled Yantai. East of Changzhou extending to Shanghai, another non-government Chinese force, led by Dai Li, employed guerrilla tactics in the Shanghai suburbs and across the Huangpu River. This force included secret society members from the Green Gang and the Tiandihui, who conducted executions of spies and perceived traitors, losing more than 100 men in the course of operations. On August 13, members of this force clandestinely entered the Japanese air base at Hongqiao and raised a Chinese flag. Meanwhile, the Japanese Sixth Division breached the defensive lines of Chinese 31st and 68th Armies on July 24 and captured Taihu, Susong, and Huangmei Counties by August 3. As Japanese forces advanced westward, the Chinese Fourth Army of the Fifth War Zone deployed its main strength in Guangji, Hubei, and Tianjia Town to intercept the offensive. The 11th Army Group and the 68th Army were ordered to form a defensive line in Huangmei County, while the 21st and 29th Army Groups, along with the 26th Army, moved south to outflank the Japanese. The Chinese recaptured Taihu on August 27 and Susong on August 28. However, with Japanese reinforcements arriving on August 30, the Chinese 11th Army Group and the 68th Army were unable to sustain counteroffensives and retreated to Guangji County to continue resisting alongside the 26th, 55th, and 86th Armies. The Chinese Fourth Army Group directed the 21st and 29th Army Groups to flank the Japanese from the northeast of Huangmei, but they failed to halt the Japanese advance. Guangji fell on September 6, and while Guangji was recovered by the Chinese Fourth Corps on September 8, Wuxue was lost on the same day. Zooming back in on the Wuhan Front, the Japanese focus shifted to Tianjiazhen. The fortress of Tianjiazhen represented the 6th Infantry Division's most important objective. Its geographic position, where the Yangtze's two banks narrow to roughly 600 meters, with cliffs and high ground overlooking the river, allowed Chinese forces to deploy gun batteries that could control the river and surrounding terrain. Chinese control of Tianjiazhen thus posed a serious obstacle to Japan's amphibious and logistical operations on the Yangtze, and its seizure was deemed essential for Japan to advance toward Wuhan. Taking Tianjiazhen would not be easy: overland approaches were impeded by mountainous terrain on both sides of the fortress, while an amphibious assault faced fortified positions and minefields in the narrow river. Recognizing its strategic importance, Chinese forces reinforced Tianjiazhen with three divisions from central government troops, aiming to deter an overland assault. Chinese preparations included breaching several dykes and dams along the Yangtze to flood expanses of land and slow the Japanese advance; however, the resulting higher water levels widened the river and created a more accessible supply route for the Japanese. Instead of relying on a long overland route from Anqing to Susong, the Japanese could now move supplies directly up the Yangtze from Jiujiang to Huangmei, a distance of only about 40 kilometers, which boosted the 6th Division's logistics and manpower. In August 1938 the 6th Infantry Division resumed its northward push, facing determined resistance from the 4th Army Corps entrenched in a narrow defile south of the Dabie Mountains, with counterattacks from the 21st and 27th Army Groups affecting the 6th's flank. The Dabie Mountains are a major mountain range located in central China. Running northwest to southeast, they form the main watershed between the Huai and Yangtze rivers. The range also marks the boundary between Hubei Province and its neighboring provinces of Henan to the north and Anhui to the east. By early September the 6th had captured Guangji, providing a staging ground for the thrust toward Tianjiazhen, though this extended the division's long flank: after Guangji fell, it now faced a 30-kilometer front between Huangmei and Guangji, exposing it to renewed Chinese pressure from the 21st and 27th Army Groups. This constrained the number of troops available for the main objective at Tianjiazhen. Consequently, the Japanese dispatched only a small force, three battalions from the Imamura Detachment, to assault Tianjiazhen, betting that the fortress could be taken within a week. The KMT, learning from previous defeats, reinforced Tianjiazhen with a stronger infantry garrison and built obstacles, barbed wire, pillboxes, and trench networks, to slow the assault. These defenses, combined with limited Japanese logistics, six days of rations per soldier, made the operation costly and precarious. The final Japanese assault was postponed by poor weather, allowing Chinese forces to press counterattacks: three Chinese corps, the 26th, 48th, and 86th, attacked the Imamura Detachment's flank and rear, and by September 18 these attacks had begun to bite, though the floods of the Yangtze prevented a complete encirclement of the eastern flank. Despite these setbacks, Japanese riverine and ground operations continued, aided by naval support that moved up the Yangtze as Matouzhen's batteries were overtaken. After Matouzhen fell and enabled a secure riverine supply line from Shanghai to Guangji, 11th Army commander Okamura Yasuji quickly sent relief supplies upriver on September 23. These replenishments restored the besieged troops near Tianjiazhen and allowed the Japanese to resume the offensive, employing night assaults and poison gas to seize Tianjiazhen on September 29, 1938, thereby removing a major barrier to their advance toward Wuhan along the Yangtze. The 11th Army pressed north along the Yangtze while the 2nd Army, commanded by Prince Naruhiko Higashikuni, concentrated the 3rd, 10th, 13th, and 16th Infantry Divisions around Hefei with initial aims at Lu'an and Heshan and the broader objective of moving toward the northern foothills of the Dabie Mountains. When Chinese forces began destroying roads west of Lu'an, Naruhiko shifted the 2nd Army's plan. Rather than pushing along a line from Lu'an to Heshan, he redirected toward the Huangchuan–Shangcheng corridor, where more intact roads remained accessible, and Chinese withdrawals in the Huangchuan–Shangceng area to counter the 11th Army's Yangtze advance allowed the 2nd Army to gain speed in the early stage of its offensive. The 10th and 13th Infantry Divisions were ordered to begin their advance on August 27, facing roughly 25,000 Chinese troops from the Fifth War Zone's 51st and 77th Corps, and achieving notable early gains. The 10th captured Lu'an on August 28, followed by the 13th taking Heshan on August 29. The 10th then seized Kushi on September 7. Meanwhile, the 13th crossed the Shi River at night in an attempt to seize Changbailing, but encountered stiff resistance from multiple Chinese divisions that slowed its progress. To bolster the effort, Naruhiko ordered the Seiya Detachment from the 10th Division—three infantry battalions—to reinforce the 13th. Despite these reinforcements, momentum remained insufficient, so he deployed the 16th Infantry Division, which had arrived at Yenchiachi, to assault Shangcheng from the north. After crossing the Shi River at Yanjiachi, the 16th outflanked Shangcheng from the north, coordinating with the 13th from the south; the Chinese withdrew and Shangcheng fell. Following this success, Naruhiko ordered the 13th and 16th Divisions to push deeper into the Dabie Mountains toward Baikou and Songfu, while the 10th and 3rd Divisions moved toward Leshan and Xinyang, with Xinyang, a crucial Beijing–Wuhan Railway node, representing a particularly important objective. The Japanese advance progressed steadily through the Dabie Mountains, with the 10th executing bold maneuvers to outflank Leshan from the south and the 3rd penetrating toward the Beijing–Wuhan railway north of Xinyang, collectively disrupting and cutting the railway near Xinyang in October. An independent unit, the Okada Detachment, operated between these forces, advancing through Loshan before sealing Xinyang on October 12. The seizure of Xinyang effectively severed Wuhan's northern artery from external reinforcement and resupply, signaling a decisive turn against Wuhan as a Chinese stronghold. While the 2nd Army advanced in the Dabie Mountains, another critical development was taking place far to the south. By the end of 1937, southern China became more crucial to the Republic of China as a lifeline to the outside world. Guangzhou and Hong Kong served as some of the last vital transportation hubs and sources of international aid for Chiang Kai-Shek, with approximately 80 percent of supplies from abroad reaching Chinese forces in the interior through Guangzhou. Imperial General Headquarters believed that a blockade of Guangdong province would deprive China of essential war materiel and the ability to prolong the war. As I always liked to term it, the Japanese were trying to plug up the leaks of supplies coming into China, and Guangzhou was the largest one. In 1936 the Hankow-Canton railway was completed, and together with the Kowloon-Canton railway formed a rapid all-rail link from south China to central and northern China. For the first sixteen months of the war, about 60,000 tons of goods transited per month through the port of Hong Kong. The central government also reported the import of 1.5 million gallons of gasoline through Hong Kong in 1938, and more than 700,000 tons of goods would eventually reach Hankou using the new railway. In comparison, the Soviet Union in 1937 was sending war materiel through Xinjiang to Lanzhou using camels, with Chinese raw materials traveling back either the same route or via Hong Kong to Vladivostok. By 1940, 50,000 camels and hundreds of trucks were transporting 2,000–3,000 tons of Soviet war material per month into China. Japanese planning for operations began in early November 1937, with the blockade's objectives centered on seizing a portion of Daya Bay and conducting air operations from there. In December 1937, the 5th Army, including the 11th Division, the Formosa Mixed Brigade, and the 4th Air Brigade, were activated in Formosa under Lt. Gen. Motoo Furusho to achieve this objective. Due to the proximity of Daya Bay to Hong Kong, the Japanese government feared potential trouble with Britain, and the operation was subsequently suspended, leading to the deactivation of the 5th Army. By June 1938, the Battle of Wuhan convinced Imperial General Headquarters that the fighting could not be localized. The headquarters reversed policy and began preparations to capture Guangzhou and to expedite the settlement of the war. During the peak of the battles of Shanghai and Nanjing, urgent demands for aerial support at the Battle of Taiyuan in the north and at Canton in the south forced the Nationalist Air Force of China to split the 28th Pursuit Squadron and the 5th Pursuit Group , based at Jurong Airbase in the Nanking defense sector. The squadron was divided into two smaller units: Lt. Arthur Chin led one half toward Canton, while Capt. Chan Kee-Wong led the other half to Taiyuan. On September 27, 1937, the 28th PS under Lt. Arthur Chin dispatched four Hawk IIs from Shaoguan Airbase, and the 29th PS under Lt. Chen Shun-Nan deployed three Hawk IIIs from Tianhe Airbase. Their mission was to intercept Japanese IJNAF G3M bombers attempting to strike the Canton–Hankow railway infrastructure. The two flights engaged the Japanese bombers over Canton, claiming at least two kills; one G3M dumped fuel and ditching off the coast of Swatow, with its crew rescued by a British freighter, though one of the gunners died of battle injuries. In October 1937, amid mounting demands and combat losses, the Chinese government ordered 36 Gloster Gladiator Mk.I fighters, whose performance and firepower surpassed that of the Hawk IIs and IIIs, and most of these would become frontline fighters for the Canton defense sector as the war extended into 1938. On February 23, 1938, Capt. John Huang Xinrui, another Chinese-American volunteer pilot, took command of the renewed 29th PS, now equipped with the Gladiators. He led nine Gladiators from Nanxiong Airbase on their first active combat over Canton, supporting three Gladiators from the 28th PS as they intercepted thirteen Nakajima E8N fighter-attack seaplanes launched from the seaplane tenders Notoro Maru and Kinugasa Maru. The battle proved challenging: most of the Gladiators' machine guns jammed, severely reducing their firepower. Despite this, five of the E8Ns were shot down, confirmed by Capt. Huang and his fellow pilots who managed to strike the Japanese aircraft with only one, two, or three functioning guns per Gladiator. Chin later revealed that the gun jams were caused by defective Belgian-made ammunition. The combat nevertheless proved tragic and costly: Lt. Xie Chuanhe (Hsieh Chuan-ho) and his wingman Lt. Yang Rutong pursued the E8Ns but were stymied by inoperable weapons, with Lt. Yang killed in the counterattack, and Lt. Chen Qiwei lost under similar circumstances. The 4th War Area Army, commanded by He Yingqin, was assigned to the defense of south China in 1938. General Yu Hanmou led the 12th Army Group defending Guangdong province. The region's defense included about eight divisions and two brigades of regular army troops stationed around Guangzhou, with an additional five divisions of regular troops deployed in Fujian. The 4th War Area Army totaled roughly 110,000 regular army troops. By this time, most regular army units in Guangxi and four Guangdong divisions had been redirected north to participate in the Battle of Wuhan. Beyond the regular army, two militia divisions were deployed near Guangzhou, and the Guangxi militia comprised five divisions. Militia units were typically raised from local civilians and disbanded as the army moved through new areas. Their roles centered on security, supply transportation, and reconnaissance. Guangdong's main defensive strength was concentrated in Guangzhou and the immediate environs to the city's east. Other Chinese forces defended Chaozhou and western Guangdong. Defensive fortifications included the Humen fortress guarding the Pearl River mouth and three defensive lines near Daya Bay. Guangzhou housed three batteries of four three-inch guns, a battery of three 120mm guns, and Soviet-supplied 37mm anti-aircraft guns. The Imperial Japanese Navy conducted an aerial and naval interdiction campaign aimed at China's communication lines to neighboring regions. Japan believed that the blockade would hasten the end of the war, and disruption of the Chinese logistics network was the primary objective in Guangdong province from August 1937 until October 1938. The 5th Fleet's blockading actions extended along the coast from Haimenchen, Zhejiang to Shantou, with the 5th Destroyer Squadron patrolling the coast south of Shantou. At times, units from the Marianas were deployed to support coastal blockade operations in south China, usually consisting of cruisers accompanied by destroyer flotillas. One or two aircraft carriers and fleet auxiliaries would also be on station. Naval interdictions focused on stopping junks ferrying military supplies from Hong Kong to coastal China. The first recorded attack occurred in September 1937 when eleven junks were sunk by a Japanese submarine. Although Japan successfully blockaded Chinese shipping and ports, foreign shipping could still enter and depart from Hong Kong. The central government had established Hong Kong as a warehouse for munitions and supplies to pass through. Aerial interdictions targeted Chinese railway bridges and trains in Guangdong. Starting in October 1937, the Japanese launched air raids against the Sunning railway, focusing on government facilities and bridges in Jiangmen and towns along the railway. By 1938, airstrikes against the Kowloon–C Canton railway became common, with damaged trains periodically found along the line. An air-defense early warning system was created to divert trains during raids into forested areas that offered overhead concealment. In May 1938, the Colonial Office and the Foreign Office approved a Chinese request to construct and operate a locomotive repair yard within the New Territories to keep the railway operational. Airstrikes against rail facilities in Guangzhou were designed to interrupt rail supplies from Hong Kong so Japan would not need to commit to land operations in south China. However, the air raids did not severely impede railway operations or stop supplies moving through Hunan or Guangxi. The blockade in south China also targeted aircraft flying out of Hong Kong. In November 1937, a Royal Navy aircraft from HMS Eagle encountered Japanese naval anti-aircraft fire off the coast of Hong Kong. In December 1937, fifteen Japanese bombers overflew Lantau Island and the Taikoo docks. In August 1938, Japanese naval aircraft shot down a China National Aviation Corporation passenger plane, and two Eurasia Aviation Corporation passenger planes were shot down the following month. Beyond military targets, the Japanese conducted politically motivated terror bombing in Guangzhou. Bombing intensified from May to June 1938 with incendiary munitions and low-level strafing attacks against ships. The Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service, operating from Formosa and the carrier Kaga, conducted about 400 airstrikes during this period and continued into July. By the end of the summer, Guangzhou's population had dwindled to approximately 600,000 from an original 1.3 million. From August 1937 to October 1938, casualties in Guangzhou were estimated at 6,000 killed and 8,000 injured. On October 12, 1938, Japanese forces from the 21st Army, including the 5th, 18th, and 104th Infantry Divisions, landed in Guangzhou, launching the operation at 4:00 am with elements of the 5th and 18th Divisions hitting Aotou and elements of the 104th Division landing at Hachung in Bias Bay. Initially totaling about 30,000 men, they were soon reinforced by a further 20,000, and resistance was minimal because most of Yu Hanmou's 12th Army Group had been redeployed to central China to defend approaches to Wuhan, leaving only two regular Chinese divisions, the 151st and 153rd, to defend the region. By the night of October 12, the Japanese had established a 10-kilometer-deep beachhead and advanced inland; on October 13 they seized the towns of Pingshan and Tamshui with little opposition, and on October 15 they converged on Waichow and captured it. The fall of Pingshan, located on the Sai Kong River with a deep, broad river and only a flimsy crossing, and Waichow, where Chinese defenses included trenches and concrete pillboxes, surprised observers since these positions had been prepared to resist invasion; nonetheless, Chinese forces fled, opening the road to Guangzhou for the Japanese. Between October 16 and 19, three Japanese columns pushed inland, with the easternmost column crossing the East River on the 16th and the 5th Infantry Division capturing Sheklung on the 19th as Chinese forces retreated. By the night of October 20, Guangzhou's defenders withdrew and adopted a scorched-earth policy to deny resources to the invaders. On October 21, Japanese tanks entered Guangzhou without infantry support, and a regiment from the 5th Infantry Division captured the Bocca Tigris forts with no resistance. With Guangzhou secured, the Guangzhou–Wuhan railway and the Hong Kong–Guangzhou railway were severed, supplies to Wuhan were cut, Chiang Kai-Shek faced a daunting and depressing task, he had to abandon Wuhan. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. The Yangtze became a bloodied artery as Chinese and Japanese forces clashed from Anqing to Jiujiang, Madang to Tianjiazhen. A mosaic of Chinese troops, filled with grit and missteps, held lines while civilians like Wang Guozhen refused to surrender. The siege of Wanjialing crowned Chinese resilience, even as Guangzhou buckled under a relentless blockade. The Fall of Wuhan was all but inevitable.

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, comedian Sophie Buddle sits down with Jiaoying for a funny and honest conversation about growing up, figuring things out, and finding humor in the awkward parts of life. Sophie talks about why boys need tough love, why honesty is abuse, and Jiaoying teaches her how to curse like a real Chinese Queen. It's a real and refreshingly down-to-earth chat — full of laughs, sharp insights, and moments that feel like catching up with an old friend.#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #SophieBuddleAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Today we discuss some of our personal quirks and habits! We talk about random habits we never realized we had until someone else pointed it out, or someone else did the opposite. We chat through habits we've picked up or broken due to our SO.Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

Historian and professor, at Stanford University, Dr. Gordon H. Zhang explains the participation of Chinese immigrants in the building of modern America. From rail, to rockets, to our world today, Chinese Americans make America great. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Last time we spoke about the flooding of the Yellow River. As Japanese forces pressed toward central China, Chiang Kai-shek weighed a desperate gamble: defend majestic Wuhan with costly sieges, or unleash a radical plan that would flood its heart. Across/Xuzhou, Taierzhuang, and the Yellow River's bend near Zhengzhou, commanders fought a brutal, grinding war. Chinese units, battered yet stubborn, executed strategic retreats and furious counteroffensives. But even as brave soldiers stalled the enemy, the longer fight threatened to drain a nation's will and leave millions unprotected. Then a striking idea surfaced: breach the dikes of the Yellow River at Huayuankou and flood central China to halt the Japanese advance. The plan was terrifying in its moral cost, yet it offered a temporary shield for Wuhan and time to regroup. Workers, farmers, soldiers, laborers—pushed aside fear and toiled through the night, water rising like a raging tide. The flood bought months, not victory. It punished civilians as much as it protected soldiers, leaving a nation to confront its own hard choices and the haunting question: was survival worth the price?   #172 The Road to Wuhan Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Following the Battle of Xuzhou and the breaching of the Yangtze dykes, Wuhan emerged as Japan's next military objective for political, economic, and strategic reasons. Wuhan served as the interim capital of the Kuomintang government, making it a crucial center of political authority. Its fall would deprive China of a vital rail and river hub, thereby further crippling the Chinese war effort. From a strategic perspective, Japanese control of a major rail and river junction on the Yangtze would enable westward expansion and provide a base for further advances into central and southern China. For these reasons, the Intelligence Division of the Army General Staff assessed that the capture of Wuhan would likely deliver the decisive blow needed to conclude the Second Sino-Japanese War.  Recognizing Wuhan's strategic importance, both the National Revolutionary Army and the Imperial Japanese Army committed substantial forces to the city and its approaches. The IJA deployed roughly 400,000 troops, while the NRA fielded at least 800,000. China began the war with an estimated regular force of 1.7 to 2.2 million men, organized into six broad loyalty-based categories around Chiang Kai-shek's command. Directly loyal troops formed the first group, followed by a second tier of soldiers who had previously supported Chiang but were less tightly controlled. The next category consisted of provincial troops that Chiang could ordinarily influence, while a fourth group included provincial units over which his sway was weaker. The fifth category comprised Communist forces, the Eighth Route Army in the northwest and the New Fourth Army forming in the central Yangtze region. The final category consisted of Northeastern or Manchurian units loyal to Zhang Xueliang, known as the “Young Marshal.” The first two categories together accounted for roughly 900,000 men, with about a million more in independent provincial armies, and roughly 300,000 in Communist and Manchurian forces. As commander-in-chief, Chiang could effectively command only about half of the mobilizable units at the outbreak of war in July 1937, which meant that military decisions were often slow, fraught with negotiation, and administratively cumbersome. Division-level coordination and communication proved particularly challenging, a stark contrast to the Japanese command structure, which remained clean and disciplined. Geographically, most of Chiang's loyal troops were located in the corridor between the Yangtze and the Yellow rivers at the start of 1938. Having participated heavily in the defense of Shanghai and Nanjing, they retreated to Wuhan at about half strength, with an already decimated officer corps. They then numbered around 400,000 and were commanded by generals Chen Cheng and Hu Zongnan. The northern regional armies, especially Han Fuju's forces in Shandong, had suffered severe losses; some units defected to the Japanese and later served as puppet troops. After six months of Japanese onslaught that cost the coastal and central regions—Peiping-Tianjin to Shanghai and inland toward Nanjing—much of the relatively autonomous, sizable armies remained from the southwest or northwest, under leaders such as Li Zongren, Bai Chongxi (Guangxi), Long Yun (Yunnan), and Yan Xishan (Shanxi and Suiyuan). Roughly 700,000 of these troops—predominantly from Guangxi under Li and Bai—were committed to the defense of Wuhan. The Communist forces, by contrast, numbered about 100,000 and remained relatively unscathed in bases north and east of Xi'an. In total, approximately 1.3 million men were under arms in defense of Wuhan. In December 1937, the Military Affairs Commission was established to determine Wuhan's defense strategy. Following the loss of Xuzhou, the National Revolutionary Army redeployed approximately 1.1 million troops across about 120 divisions. The commission organized the defense around three main fronts: the Dabie Mountains, Poyang Lake, and the Yangtze River, in response to an estimated 200,000 Japanese troops spread over 20 divisions of the Imperial Japanese Army. Li Zongren and Bai Chongxi, commanding the Fifth War Zone, were assigned to defend the north of the Yangtze, while Chen Cheng, commanding the Ninth War Zone, was tasked with defending the south. The First War Zone, situated to the west of the Zhengzhou–Xinyang segment of the Pinghan Railway, was responsible for halting Japanese forces advancing from the North China Plain, and the Third War Zone, located between Wuhu, Anqing, and Nanchang, was charged with protecting the Yuehan Railway. Following the Japanese occupation of Xuzhou in May 1938, they sought to expand the invasion. The IJA decided to dispatch a vanguard to occupy Anqing as a forward base for an assault on Wuhan. The main force would then advance north of the Dabie Mountains along the Huai River, with the objective of eventually capturing Wuhan via the Wusheng Pass. A second detachment would move west along the Yangtze. However, a flood from the Yellow River forced the IJA to abandon plans to advance along the Huai and instead to attack along both banks of the Yangtze. Despite Chinese numerical superiority on the Wuhan front, roughly a 2:1 advantage, the offensive faced several complicating factors. The NRA was a heterogeneous, fragmented force with a variety of tables of organization and equipment, and it lacked the unified command structure that characterized the IJA. Historian Richard Frank notes the broad diversity of Chinese forces at the outbreak of the war, which hindered cohesive mobile and strategic operations: “Chiang commanded armies of 2,029,000 troops of highly variegated capability and loyalty. His personal forces included an elite cadre of three hundred-thousand German-trained and eighty-thousand German armed men. A second stratum of the Chinese armies, numbering roughly 600,000 included various regional commands loyal to Chiang in the past that generally conformed to his directives. These troops were better armed and trained than the rest. The third category encompassed a million men who were neither loyal nor obedient to Chiang”. The NRA faced a significant disadvantage in both quantity and quality of equipment compared to the Japanese. The disparity was stark in artillery allocations. An IJA infantry division possessed 48 field and mountain guns, whereas a German-equipped Chinese division had only 16. In terms of regiment and battalion guns, a Japanese division had 56, while a German-equipped Chinese division possessed just 30. Of roughly 200 Chinese infantry divisions in 1937, only 20 were German-equipped, and merely eight of those met their paper-strength standards. Many Chinese divisions had no artillery at all, and those that did often lacked radios or forward-observation capabilities to ensure accurate fire. These deficiencies placed the NRA at a clear disadvantage in firepower when facing the Japanese. These equipment gaps were compounded by poor training and tactical doctrine. The NRA lacked adequate training facilities and did not incorporate sufficient field maneuvers, gun handling, or marksmanship into its program. Although the 1935 drill manual introduced small-group “open order” tactics, many formations continued to fight in close-order formations. In an era when increased firepower rendered close-order tactics obsolete, such formations became a liability. The NRA's failure to adapt dispersed assault formations limited its tactical effectiveness. Defensively, the NRA also faced serious shortcomings. Units were often ordered to create deep positions near key lines of communication, but Chinese forces became overly dependent on fixed fortifications, which immobilized their defense. Poor intelligence on Japanese movements and a lack of mobile reserves, there were only about 3,000 military vehicles in China in 1937, meant that Japanese infantry could easily outflank fixed NRA positions. Moreover, the Japanese enjoyed superiority in artillery, enabling them to suppress these fixed positions more effectively. These realities left Chinese defenses vulnerable, especially in the war's first year. The leadership deficit within the NRA, reflected in limited officer training, further constrained operational effectiveness. Chiang Kai-shek reportedly warned that Chinese commanders often equaled their counterparts in rank but did not outmatch them in competence. Only 2,000 commanders and staff officers had received training by 1937, and many staff officers had no military training at all. Overall, about 29.1 percent of NRA officers had no military education, severely limiting professional development and command capability. With the exception of the Guangxi divisions, Chinese units were hampered by an unnecessarily complex command structure. Orders from Chiang Kai-shek needed to pass through six tiers before action could be taken, slowing decision-making and responsiveness. In addition, Chiang favored central army units under direct control with loyal commanders from the Whampoa clique when distributing equipment, a pattern that bred discord and insubordination across levels of the Chinese field forces. Beyond structural issues, the Chinese force organization suffered from a lack of coherence due to competing influences. The forces had been reorganized along German-inspired lines, creating large field armies arranged as “war zones,” while Russian influence shaped strategic positioning through a division into “front” and “route” armies and separate rear-area service units. This mix yielded an incoherent force facing the Japanese. Troop placement and support procedures lacked rationalization: Chiang and his generals often sought to avoid decisive confrontation with Japan to minimize the risk of irreversible defeat, yet they also rejected a broad adoption of guerrilla warfare as a systematic tactic. The tendency to emphasize holding railway lines and other communications tied down the main fighting forces, around which the Japanese could maneuver more easily, reducing overall operational flexibility. Despite these deficiencies, NRA officers led roughly 800,000 Chinese troops deployed for the Battle of Wuhan. On the Wuhan approaches, four war zones were organized under capable if overextended leadership: 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 9th. The 5th War Zone, commanded by Li Zongren, defended north of the Yangtze to protect the Beijing–Wuhan railway. Chen Cheng's Ninth War Zone defended south of the Yangtze, aiming to prevent seizure of Jiujiang and other key cities on approaches to Wuhan. The 1st War Zone focused on stopping Japanese forces from the northern plains, while Gu Zhutong's 3rdWar Zone, deployed between Wuhu, Anqing, and Nanchang, defended the Yuehan railway and fortified the Yangtze River. Japan's Central China Expeditionary Army, commanded by Hata Shunroku, spearheaded the Wuhan advance. The CCEA consisted of two armies: the 2nd Army, which included several infantry divisions under Prince Naruhiko Higashikuni, and the 11th Army, advancing along the Yangtze's northern and southern banks under Okamura Yasuji. The 2nd Army aimed to push through the Dabie Mountains and sever Wuhan from the north, while the 11th Army would converge on Wuhan in a concentric operation to envelop the city. The Japanese forces were augmented by 120 ships from the 3rd Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Navy under Koshirō Oikawa, more than 500 aircraft from the Imperial Japanese Army Air Service, and five divisions from the Central China Area Army tasked with guarding Shanghai, Beijing, Hangzhou, and other key cities. These forces were intended to protect the back of the main Japanese thrust and complete the preparations for a major battle. The Kuomintang, led by Chiang Kai-shek, was acutely aware that Japan aimed to strike at Wuhan. Facing Japan's firepower and bold offensives, Chiang and his commanders pursued a strategy of attrition at the Wuchang conference in January 1938. Central China would be the primary theater of China's protracted struggle, distant from Japan's existing center of gravity in Manchuria. Chiang hoped Japan's manpower and resources would be exhausted as the empire pushed deeper into Central China. Eventually, Japan would be forced either to negotiate a settlement with China or to seek foreign assistance to obtain raw materials. The mountainous terrain to the north and south of the Yangtze presented natural obstacles that the Chinese believed would hinder large-scale concentration of Japanese forces. North of the Yangtze, the Dabie Mountains provided crucial flank protection; to the south, rugged, roadless terrain made expansive maneuvering difficult. In addition to these natural barriers, Chinese forces fortified the region with prepared, in-depth defenses, particularly in the mountains. The rugged terrain was expected to help hold back the Japanese offensive toward Wuhan and inflict substantial casualties on the attackers. The Yangtze itself was a critical defensive factor. Although the Chinese Navy was largely absent, they implemented several measures to impede amphibious operations. They constructed gun positions at key points where the river narrowed, notably around the strongholds at Madang and Tianjiazhen. Specialized units, such as the Riverine Defense Force, were deployed to defend these river fortifications against amphibious assaults. To reinforce the Riverine Defense Force, Chinese forces sank 79 ships in the Yangtze to create obstacles for potential Japanese naval advances. They also laid thousands of mines to constrain Japanese warships. These defensive measures were designed to slow the Japanese advance and complicate their logistics. The Chinese aimed to exploit stalled offensives to strike at exposed flanks and disrupted supply lines, leveraging terrain and fortified positions to offset Japan's superior firepower. On 18 February 1938, an Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service strike force comprising at least 11 A5M fighters of the 12th and 13th Kōkūtais, led by Lieutenant Takashi Kaneko, and 15 G3M bombers of the Kanoya Kokutai, led by Lieutenant Commander Sugahisa Tuneru, raided Wuhan and engaged 19 Chinese Air Force I-15 fighters from the 22nd and 23rd Pursuit Squadrons and 10 I-16 fighters from the 21st Pursuit Squadron, all under the overall command of the 4th Pursuit Group CO Captain Li Guidan. They faced a Soviet Volunteer Group mix of Polikarpov fighters as well. The 4th Group fighters claimed at least four A5Ms shot down, while the Soviet group claimed no fewer than three A5Ms. Both the Japanese fighter group commander, Lieutenant Kaneko, and the Chinese fighter group commander, Captain Li, were killed in action during the battle. A largely intact A5M downed in the engagement was recovered with a damaged engine; it was the second intact A5M to be recovered, repaired, and flight-tested in the war, following the first recovered-intact A5M credited to Colonel Gao Zhihang during an air battle over Nanjing on 12 October 1937. On 3 August 1938, 52 Chinese fighters, including 20 I-15s, 13 I-16s, 11 Gloster Gladiators, and 7 Hawk IIIs, intercepted at least 29 A5Ms and 18 G3Ms over Hankou. The Guangxi era pilots Zhu Jiaxun and He Jermin, along with Chinese-American fighter pilots Arthur Chin and Louie Yim-qun, all flying Gladiators, claimed at least four A5Ms shot down on that day. The Wuhan Campaign began in earnest when the Imperial Japanese Army's 3rd and 13th Infantry Divisions advanced north of the Yangtze River. Central China Expeditionary Army commander Hata Shunroku designated Shouxian, Zhengyangguan, and the Huainan coal mine as the objectives for the 3rd and 13th Infantry Divisions. Meanwhile, the 6th Infantry Division, part of the 11th Army, advanced toward Anqing from Hefei. The 6th Infantry Division coordinated with the Hata Detachment, which launched an amphibious assault from the river. The 2nd Army's sector saw immediate success. On June 3, the 3rd Infantry Division seized the Huainan coal mine; two days later, it captured Shouxian. The 13th Infantry Division also secured Zhengyangguan on that day. The 6th Infantry Division then made rapid progress immediately north of the Yangtze River, taking Shucheng on June 8 and Tongcheng on June 13. These advances forced the Chinese 77th Corps and the 21st and 26th Army Groups to withdraw to a line spanning Huoshan, Lu'an, and Fuyang. More critically, the Hata Detachment crossed the Yangtze River and landed behind the Chinese 27th Army Group's 20th Corps. The sudden appearance of Japanese forces in their rear forced the two Chinese divisions defending Anqing to withdraw. The fall of Anqing represented a major Japanese success, as they gained control of an airfield crucial for receiving close air support. After battles around Shucheng, Tongcheng, and Anqing, all three cities and their surrounding countryside suffered extensive damage. Much of this damage resulted from air raids that indiscriminately targeted soldiers and civilians alike. In Shucheng, the raids were reportedly aided by a Chinese traitor who displayed a red umbrella to guide daylight bombing on May 10, 1938. This air raid caused substantial destruction, killing or wounding at least 160 people and destroying more than a thousand homes. The town of Yimen also endured aerial destruction, with raids killing over 400 people and destroying 7,000 homes. Yimen and Shucheng were among many Chinese towns subjected to terror bombing, contributing to widespread civilian casualties and the destruction of livelihoods across China. The broader pattern of air raids was enabled by a lack of quality fighter aircraft and trained pilots, allowing Japanese bombers free rein against Chinese cities, towns, and villages. While the aerial assaults caused immense damage, the atrocities committed in these cities were even more severe. In Anhui, where Shucheng, Anqing, and Tongcheng were located, the Japanese brutality was on full display. The brutality can be partly understood as an attempt to destroy China's will and capacity to wage war, yet the extremity of some acts points to a warped martial culture within the Japanese Army, which appeared to encourage murder, torture, rape, and other crimes. Indeed, the Army eventually enshrined this brutality in its doctrine with the so-called “three alls”: kill all, burn all, loot all.  These acts, and more, were carried out in Anhui during the summer of 1938 as the Japanese advanced up the Yangtze River. In Anqing, the Hata Detachment killed at least 200 people without compunction. A further 36 civilians on a boat were detained and killed by Japanese marines, who claimed they were potentially Chinese soldiers. The countryside around Anqing, Shucheng, and Tongcheng witnessed continued atrocities. In Taoxi village of Shucheng County, the Japanese burned over 1,000 houses and killed more than 40 people. At Nangang, Japanese soldiers killed more than 200 people and committed numerous rapes, including many victims over 60 years old. Tongcheng also became a site of forced sexual slavery. The Japanese atrocities, intended to terrify the Chinese into submission, did not achieve their aim. Chinese resistance persisted. After a brief withdrawal, the 20th Army held stoutly at Jinshan for four days before retreating to Xiaochiyi and Taihu. These withdrawals, while costly, lured the Japanese deeper into the interior of China. As the Japanese advanced, their flanks became increasingly vulnerable to counterattack. On June 26, 1928, the Chinese 26th Army Group attacked the flanks of the 6th Infantry Division at Taihu. The 26th Army Group was supported by the 20th and 31st Armies, which attacked from the front to pin the 6th Infantry Division in place. The 6th Infantry Division was ill-prepared to respond, suffering a malaria outbreak that left about 2,000 soldiers unfit for combat. Fighting continued until June 29, when the Japanese withdrew. The focus of operations north of the Yangtze shifted to Madang, a key river fortress protected by obstacles and river batteries. Roughly 600 mines were laid in the Yangtze near Madang, and the fortress was largely manned by the Riverine Defense Force, with a small garrison; including stragglers from the 53rd Infantry Division, the Madang garrison totaled roughly 500 men. Initial expectations had Madang holding, since Japanese ships could not easily remove obstacles or suppress the batteries. On the dawn of June 24, however, news reached Madang that Xiangkou had fallen to the Japanese, enabling a land threat to Madang, and many Madang defenders, including most officers above the platoon level, were absent at a nearby ceremony when the attack began.  On 24 June, Japanese forces conducted a surprise landing at Madang, while the main body of the Japanese Eleventh Army advanced along the southern shore of the Yangtze. The Chinese garrison at the Madang river fortress repelled four assaults, yet suffered casualties from intense bombardment by Japanese ships on the Yangtze and from poison gas attacks. Compounding the difficulty, most of the Chinese officers responsible for Madang's defense were absent due to a ceremony at a local military school by Li Yunheng, the overseeing general. Consequently, only three battalions from the second and third Marine Corps and the 313th regiment of the 53rd Division took part in the defense, totaling no more than five battalions. When the 167th Division, stationed in Pengze, was ordered by War Zone commander Bai Chongxi to move swiftly along the highway to reinforce the defenders, divisional commander Xue Weiying instead sought instructions from his direct superior, Li Yunheng, who instructed him to take a longer, more navigationally challenging route to avoid Japanese bombers. Reinforcements arrived too late, and Madang fell after a three-day battle. Chiang Kai-shek promptly ordered a counterattack, offering a 50,000 yuan reward for the units that recaptured the fortress. On June 28, the 60th Division of the 18th Corps and the 105th Division of the 49th Corps retook Xiangshan and received 20,000 yuan, but made no further progress. As the Japanese army pressed the attack on Pengze, Chinese units shifted to a defensive posture. Chiang Kai-shek subsequently had Li Yunheng court-martialed and Xue Weiying executed. After the fall of Madang, the broader Wuhan campaign benefited from Madang as a foothold along the Yangtze, as the river continued to function as a dual-use corridor for transport and amphibious landings, aiding later operations and complicating Chinese defensive planning. The rapid capture of Madang demonstrated the effectiveness of combined arms, amphibious insertion, and secure supply routes along a major river, while Chinese defenses showed weaknesses such as reliance on rough terrain, underestimation of Japanese amphibious capabilities, and delayed reinforcement, which, coupled with gas warfare, produced a swift loss. The fall influenced subsequent Chinese fortifications and defensive doctrine along the Yangtze and affected decisions regarding garrison allocations and riverine operations. After Madang fell, Japan's 11th Army pressed toward its next major objectives, Jiujiang, Huangmei, and Xiaochikou. It took nearly three weeks for the Japanese to clear the waterway around Madang of mines, costing them five minesweepers, two warships, and a landing craft full of marines. Jiujiang stood out as the most important due to its status as a key river port and railway junction. To defend these targets, China deployed the 1st Army Corps to Jiujiang, the 2nd Army Corps to cover the area west of Jiujiang, and the 4th Army Corps to defend Xiaochikou. Despite these reinforcements, the Japanese continued their advance.  The Japanese initially captured Pengze but met strong resistance at Hukou, where they again deployed poison gas during a five-day battle. During the breakout, there were insufficient boats to evacuate the auxiliary troops of the defending 26th Division from Hukou, leaving only a little over 1,800 of the more than 3,100 non-combat soldiers able to be evacuated, and the majority of the more than 1,300 missing soldiers drowned while attempting to cross the Poyang Lake. On July 23, they conducted an amphibious operation at Gutang, with the Hata Detachment landing at Jiujiang shortly thereafter. These landings south of the Yangtze represented another step toward Wuhan, which lay about 240 kilometers away. The Chinese responses consisted of relentless counterattacks, but they failed to dislodge the Japanese from their bridgeheads. Consequently, the Japanese captured Xiaochikou by July 26 and Jiujiang by July 28, with a note that poison gas may have been used at Jiujiang. North of the Yangtze, the 6th Infantry Division moved forward and seized Huangmei on August 2. Despite stubborn Chinese resistance, the Japanese had gained considerable momentum toward Wuhan. Soon after the fall of Jiujiang and surrounding areas, the local population endured a renewed surge of war crimes. The Imperial Japanese Army sought to break China's will to resist and its capacity to endure the onslaught. Male civilians were executed indiscriminately, along with any POWs unable to retreat in time, while women and children were subjected to mass rape. In addition, numerous urban districts and suburban villages were deliberately razed, including the city's ceramics factories and its maritime transportation system. The widely documented “three alls” policy proved devastating in the Yangtze region: in Jiujiang alone, as many as 98,461 people were killed, 13,213 houses destroyed, and property losses reached 28.1 billion yuan. Yet numbers fail to convey the brutality unleashed in Jiujiang, Hukou, and Xiaochikou south of the Yangtze. On July 20, the Japanese confined 100 villagers in a large house in Zhouxi village, Hukou County, and erased them with machine guns and bayonets. Tangshan village witnessed similar brutality on July 31, when eight people were drowned in a pond and 26 houses burned. That September, learning that children and the elderly at Saiyang Township were taking refuge in caves on Mount Lushan, the Japanese proceeded to bayonet defenseless civilians, many beheaded, disemboweled, or amputated. These acts, among others, were carried out on a mass scale south of the Yangtze, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths around Jiujiang. Despite the enormity of these crimes, Chinese people did not surrender. Among those who resisted was Wang Guozhen of Wang Village in Pengze County. Upon learning of the Japanese approach to Pengze on July 1, Wang, a teacher, led women, children, and the elderly into mountains and forests to seek safety. However, Wang and his followers soon encountered Japanese troops who attacked them, instantly killing over 20 people. Wang denounced their actions as the Japanese took him captive and had him whipped for over an hour. They had hit him so hard his skin was peeling off and he had broken his left thigh. They then demanded he collaborate with them, but to this Wang responded “a common man cannot resist the enemy for his country and he will only die”. After hearing these words, the Japanese simply stabbed him with a bayonet in his left eye and in his chest area, ultimately killing him. Wang's small act of defiance would earn him a plaque from the KMT that states “Eternal Heroism”. Even though Wang's heroism was commendable, bravery alone could not halt the Japanese advance along the Yangtze. After securing Jiujiang, Xiaochikou, and Gutang, the 106th and 101st Infantry Divisions carried out amphibious operations further upriver. The 106th Infantry Division landed on the Yangtze's east bank, pushing south of Jili Hu. Concurrently, the Sato Detachment, two infantry battalions plus a field artillery battalion from the 101st Infantry Division, landed east of Xiaochikou and concentrated on the east side of Mount Lu. The Japanese advance soon faced firm Chinese resistance despite these early gains. The 106th Infantry Division encountered the in-depth defenses of Xue Yue's 1st Corps. These defenses formed an isosceles triangle with Jiujiang at the apex and the Jinguanqiao line at the base. Although Jiujiang was abandoned in late July, the triangle's base at Jinguanqiao remained strong, with the 8th, 74th, 18th, 32nd, 64th, 66th, 29th, 26th, 4th, and 70th Armies concentrated in the Jinguanqiao area. These forces inflicted heavy losses on the 106th Infantry Division, which saw nearly half of its captains killed or wounded during the fighting. To aid the 106th Division's breakthrough near Jinguanqiao, the 11th Army deployed the 101st Infantry Division to the area east of Xiaochikou in mid-August. From there, the division pushed toward the east side of Mount Lu, aiming to seize Xingzi in an amphibious assault via Lake Poyang. The objective was to outflank De'an and the nearby Nanxun Road. On August 19, the 101st Infantry Division executed the plan and landed at Xingzi, where they faced strong resistance from the 53rd Infantry Division. However, the division found itself isolated and thus vulnerable to being outflanked. By August 23, the 53rd Infantry Division had withdrawn to the east. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. In 1938 Wuhan stood as China's fragile beacon. Wuhan's defense hinged on a patchwork of war zones and weary commanders, while Japan poured in hundreds of thousands of troops, ships, and air power. The Yangtze became a deadly artery, with river fortresses, brutal bombings, and mass casualties. Yet courage endured: individuals like Wang Guozhen chose defiance over surrender.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.   The following day, November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   We Belong Here! Show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities. And today I am so honored to have three guests with me, Tika Basnet, and Ann Vu, and Aisa Villarosa. Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. But I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I'm gonna start with you. I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, you guys for having me on. So we are Hmong. And we helped Americans during the Vietnam War. And so, during the Vietnam War in Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. And because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains, they were able to speak with us and use us. And so a lot of our Hmong, what they did or what they contributed helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, really, so that that way they can make it back home, right? And so that is our contribution to the American people. And so when we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Really because of our legacy of helping Americans with the war, right? So that is who we are and what we bring to America. And that's who I am. I'm, and I'm actually the first generation Hmong American too. So I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. And Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Yes. Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. So I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. And they came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship, so we were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. And yeah, my husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you, Tika. And Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, my friend that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored.My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Louisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. And we're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. And I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. And in the interest of fairness, I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. So I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. That being said, I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. And as I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club. Nobody wants to be a part of this club with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. And let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: So, my husband got his removal in 2014 when he was like minor. Just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home and, he's a teenager and with his friend, like they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. So they just cross from private property. And I think that is where someone saw and call 911. So we came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. So my husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. So he was just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 911, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police get them and then they took him to jail I think police gave a lot of charges. And even until now, my husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. And he feel guilty without knowing those charges. And just because he trusts Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, like, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. And my husband said, guilty. And at that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, like, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the contrary that you are you never born. Deport To the contrary, you doesn't even speak their language. And even the lawyer did not explain my husband like, you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If all of, if those things like the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. And so when they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. And when US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. And then the ICE officer, they told my husband, like, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every years, every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. And it been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. After that incident, never police arrest him. He did not even get criminal record. He did not even get misdemeanor record. So basically he never did any violation after that. So he was following, he got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. And in 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. And at that time I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. And that is a time I think I broke down. Like, when they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. And um, like we dream a lot of things like, you know, we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: So, yeah. Um, like I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already , go through this trauma, you know, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. I dunno. Like I'm fighting and it is been five month and I really want my husband back. Like my daughter today is, she's three month old. She need her dad in life. 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. Like they have really hard time paying bills. And this is the reason, like I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. And I think he deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. Like who he is right now, you know? So yeah, this is what happened. Like I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. And I don't know whether he gonna get killed. I dunno what, whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. And just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was suddenly racially profiled. And the neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property.He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: And so there was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct or full information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't actually, wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: And right now he's in detention. You're, you live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. And what is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: Yeah, I don't wanna say a lot of things about his case, but our attorney, his criminal attorney does file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia and we recently hired, criminal attorney to fight for his case, that happened in 2013. And our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. And he's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight. 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. He's all family is in here. So his community love him ,he has family that loves him. And, we also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE officer that my husband is not risk to the community or, to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. And he has a new baby, a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. And as Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community , from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. And Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: So, Lou was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp. In 1978 and in 1979 his parents and him and his older brother received parole for legal entry. I think the exact word was, they were paroled pursuant under section 212D5 of the I and N Act, which means that they are granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. Right. Because my father-in-law had helped and during the war. And so he received his visa in September. I just lookeded back at all of his history there and then they made it to America right before Halloween 'cause my father-in-law was like, I always remembered it because in the country of Asia, they're scared of halloween, scary Halloween stuff. And so when they came, they were like, oh my gosh. There were, Jesus says, I remember there were just a lot of zombies, right? And we were so scared because we were like, and so I always remember that about, you know, I'll fast forward it to 1997, right when he just turned, I believe 18 and very similar to Tika, you know, her husband too. And a lot of times, in the early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. And we all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, right. And they weren't able to teach us growing up. So we had to kind of fend for ourselves. And I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. And he didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either, you know? 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. Right. Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. I mean, it's just a part of growing up as a youth. But because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had nothing, no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. He would take a plea, and it was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, you know, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice , that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. And he even finished a youth advocate program, a youth training program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I actually just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, you know, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. And a lot of us are from communist countries . We're, we are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. And our parents never talked about it. And I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, and he wrote, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands now after his parents told him, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. And he literally wrote all of this down, he's going to be a better person, is what he wrote. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. And, they asked him, well what was your upbringing like? And in one sentence, he wrote, poor, right? So he wrote, poor and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, Lou is remorseful for what has happened or for what ha what has happened, and very remorseful and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete. He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's what literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 , after everything was done and he served, that's when, immigration showed up at his house. And from there moved forward to explain to him what had happened. And once that happened, of course him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. Right? So we'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. Right? So we did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lou during the time where we all fled the country. Once we were, once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. And once we fled, it's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after all the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left, right? And so once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community, right? So. Fast forwarding it. We appealed the case. The case was then denied I believe in 2002. And even in his letters, in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the, Hmongs during, in the war, even had a letter in there where he, to also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America, right. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lou's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lou doesn't have anyone, right? And so you know, that goes to Tikas thing too. There's nobody there. And, going back to the case once it was denied in 2002, of course he then. Was forced to reach out to the embassy and reached out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were also denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. And then in 2006, that's when they actually took his green card was in 2006 and then we prompt again we were denied. And then in 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. So therefore, they will never allow you guys or accept you guys back. And so we were like, okay. So we moved forward and then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You know, you probably could have a chance to get it. That's when we moved forward to apply for citizenship and for all we did for the green card and then for citizenship. And of course we were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again, right? And so, uh, we decided that, you know what, we're gonna get his case expunged, and so. We got his case expunged in 2018, no questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued, with our lives. Very involved in the community. And we had all of our children by that time already, so we had six kids already. So fast forwarding to that, and then leading up to his detainment, which this year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, Hey, don't worry about it, Lou, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock and I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. Because he was supposed to, he always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. And so of course, the money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. And then leading up to July 15th where he was detained at work, early morning of six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they they told him that they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did play with them. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. And he was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. Like we don't, I don't have anyone to come get my bike. And I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. He was like, okay, let me check on something. Because my husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and I just wanna take my bike back. So they asked him, if we let you go, we asked will you like please don't run. Right? And so they followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. So I'm like, what? What's going on? So it was just so surreal. I was so shocked. And so it's about a 30 minute drive from his workplace back to our house. And um, when he got there, um, they, there were already officers, like there were, it was packed tight in our driveway. So our driveway's pretty far up because we live in the country. And so, there were like five or six cop cars there too. So we had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. And the officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. And I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful so that part is that much. They even, you know, talk to my two older boys like, “Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account.” We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be involved in Michigan. So they were very open about these steps, what they were doing with him, at least that much. But I will say that it was my grandma, of course she has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. So at that point we, we couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. And so they did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want my, our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Mm. And and your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? Ann Vue: He is Miko Lee: and so probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming, because I don't remember their exact words saying media, but I do remember they were saying that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community.I am assuming that correct, because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving. Many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lou 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. And so at that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first this way. And then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has, have you all been in touch with that same ICE officer? Ann Vue: He has been, I think in the last seven or eight years.Yeah. It's been the same guy. Miko Lee: But has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: Has not, no. So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Can you give a little bit of an update of Lou's case and what's going on with him right now? Ann Vue: I don't know as much. Maybe I may have to have Aisa respond to the legality piece around it. 'cause I know we're, they've been doing, working around the clock and working hard on strategy. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much, Aisa. Before we move into that, I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. And in both of these, you know, these amazing women are here supporting their spouses, both, spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled to be able to actually be in those positions that they were in. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. And now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. And we're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. And we could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. So, we also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. We also know and Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. And there are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is really the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. And, and this is really the moment. What Miko is referring to is, uh, largely, um, something that we've observed around the travel bans. So. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. And so a lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, you know, what, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? Because they were not happening until this year. And what very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, around April for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohans case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. You know, the Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, right? As criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, that we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lou, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lou about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lou, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. We're hoping that this public swelling of support from Mohan will result in a pardon, because importantly, even if Mohans conviction was expunged, which can be very helpful in, for example, state court, arenas, things like, applying for certain jobs. Unfortunately, in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and [00:35:00] yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lou as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma, right? And so it almost underscores. The importance of Lou, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family, right? He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. And so you know, him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. And then for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of , a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. And at that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to. At first we had no idea. Then we learned it was, toward the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan and Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohan's life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridiculous. And I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lou right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. And here is Lou still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices has a call to action to reach out to Governor Whitmer for that. Pardon in Campaign for Lou. So we encourage folks to do that. And in terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, which we discussed that are needed. And also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and also Lou. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: Yeah. So what makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Then I think Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish like somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, like around in backyard. And I wish he was been in the United States like more than one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. And I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. You know, he's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, he doesn't even, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. So no, basically that he doesn't have guide, like mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, like after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. And I think, that is the reason that I really wanna come forward. You know, people can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. And, and I think, the reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. You know, they taught me like people can make mistake and, I think we shouldn't be same. And I really wanna give example to my daughter, you know, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. I think, what is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. And I think my husband deserves second chance and he's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband too, right? I would say that there was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out and I think it's hit our community. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. And so when, I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. And , Mai and I are pretty close too. And, I just knew if I said anything, Maya's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. Right? So I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. And I'm glad that she did. And I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us, and I've been, I will say what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lou daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. Right. I would say that that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions like, well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this? There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. And I hope Tika, I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. And our fathers wanna be around. And I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. So I, I hope that. We get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. Even lose share with me. This detainment has been worse than when he was, when he did time back in 1997. And I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. And, Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month and I cannot. I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, I think his family cannot support him. And for me, like it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me like, you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. But, I think his story is really touching me. And that time, like my husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. And my husband is giving person like, he love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. And that is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Because right now people know our story. But if I was silent back , then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. So I think, my husband is number one support system for me, and I think because of him that I'm here sharing his story and yeah, like for years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, like my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Anna's story that separating family is not good. Like it is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. Because it is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. , They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. And paying those bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It is giving depression like it's been five month, like I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. And I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important thing that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lou every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. And, just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, it is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. And to look at this moment where folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is [00:52:00] truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks really deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions that in some cases have actually resulted in a community member passing away. A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation. And, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year, and so to give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many, many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. And unfortunately there are some situations where some attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tikas story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I really wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for incidents that happened, misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their, they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find [00:56:00] ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lou Young and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe and please help to support these organizations working every day to support detained and deported people. Asian Law Caucus, Asian Refugees, United Balo Project in Vietnam. Collective Freedom in Vietnam and Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee and new light Wellness in Cambodia. November 1st and second people nationwide are joining the Disappeared in America Weekend of Action to Stand Up for Immigrant Families and Defend Due Process. Actions include protests at Home [00:57:00] Depots, candlelight, freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events, honoring lives lost to detention. The following day on November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Find out more in our show notes. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 10.16.25 – We Belong Here appeared first on KPFA.

Mike Zhao, Chair of Chinese Americans for the Constitution (CAFC), discusses the threat Governor Gavin Newsom's redistricting plan poses to conservative representation in California. Newsom's Proposition 50 could eliminate five Republican congressional seats, directly undermining President Trump's agenda. Zhao and fellow leaders have mobilized patriotic Chinese Americans, many with firsthand experience under authoritarian regimes, to protect democracy, fight election rigging, and ensure conservative voices are heard in the Golden State.

Welcome to Season 5, Episode 41! Today's guest is award-winning author Beth Lew-Williams. She's a Professor of History and the Director of the Program in Asian American Studies at Princeton University. She's best known for her work on migration, violence, and ethnic studies. She's also a 2025 winner of the Dan David Prize that honors innovative research on the human past. It's the largest history prize in the world, and only nine people were awarded it in 2025! Her latest book is John Doe Chinaman: A Forgotten History of Chinese Life under American Racial Law is published by Harvard University Press and was released on September 16 of this year (so it's available now)! We love the angle she takes by examining the laws, policies, and various regulations created by Federal, State, and Local leaders that impacted the Chinese in America. She uncovered thousands of laws and policies across the nation that targeted Chinese migrants. She also tells the stories of the Chinese Americans who refused to accept a conditional place in U.S. life. Lew-Williams previous book was The Chinese Must Go: Violence, Exclusion, and the Making of the Alien in America published in 2018 (also by Harvard University Press). In it, she maps the tangled relationships between local racial violence, federal immigration policy, and U.S. imperial ambitions in Asia. The Chinese Must Go won the Ray Allen Billington Prize and the Ellis W. Halley Prize from the Organization of American Historians. John Doe Chinaman isn't just for academia. It's for all those who are interested in reading about a part of America that hasn't been talked about as much. So it's great for all! If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or our links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com.

On this episode, we are joined by Jade Chang, the author of our August 2025 book club pick The Wangs Vs the World, to chat about her newest novel, What a Time to be Alive, which follows a messy Chinese American girl named Lola Treasure Gold who inadvertently finds internet fame when a tongue in cheek speech she makes at a party honoring her recently deceased best friend goes viral, turning her into an internet self-help influencer. Follow Jade on Instagram at @hellojadechang and check out her newest novel What a Time to be Alive available now on the Books & Boba bookshop!Books & Boba is a podcast dedicated to reading and featuring books by Asian and Asian American authorsSupport the Books & Boba Podcast by:Joining our Patreon to receive exclusive perksPurchasing books at our bookshopRocking our Books & Boba merchFollow our hosts:Reera Yoo (@reeraboo)Marvin Yueh (@marvinyueh)Follow us:InstagramTwitterGoodreadsFacebookThe Books & Boba October 2025 pick is Bat Eater and Other Names for Cora Zeng by Kylie Lee BakerThis podcast is part of Potluck: An Asian American Podcast Collective

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, comedy firecracker and unapologetic truth-teller Oscar Aydin jumps into the hot seat to talk comedy, being adopted and learning how to forgive. From roasting strangers on the subway to turning heartbreak into punchlines, Oscar brings the chaos, the charm, and the oversharing — just the way we like it. When he and Jiaoying get together, it's equal parts therapy session and drag brunch. Buckle up — this episode is messy, heartfelt, and absolutely unfiltered.#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #OscarAydinAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Today our friends Katie and Jimin join us to talk about the infamous fantasy punishment…999, aka the punishment of consuming 9 hot dogs and 9 beers in the span of 9 innings. Tune into find out what strategies they employed to do their 999 punishment, as well as tips and tricks for (potential) future 999 attempts.Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

Jonathan Nunn is the London-based founder and coeditor of Vittles, a food and culture newsletter based in the UK and India. Vittles is a singular source for incisive writing about contemporary food culture, from deep dives to restaurant reviews, and it's a pleasure to have Jonathan in the studio to talk about what's shaping its ever-growing coverage.  And, at the top of the show, it's the return of Three Things, where Aliza and Matt talk about what is exciting them in the world of restaurants, cookbooks, and the food world as a whole. On this episode: A great visit to Elbow Bakery, Eng's Restaruant in Kingston, NY is all mid-century vibes and a Chinese-American gem, Russian Samovar makes for a real NYC evening, we made the Hetty tomato salad, Heydoh is a great new soy sauce, remembering journalist Marian Burros.    Subscribe to This Is TASTE: ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, reality TV icon and lovable chaos ambassador Tom Schwartz joins the show to spill the tea on life after Vanderpump, if boys are allowed to cry and his wild ride through reality stardom. When he and Jiaoying get together, it's guaranteed laughter — don't miss it!#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #TomSchwartzAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

12 - We kick off Friday with the protests raging in Portland as friend of the show Nick Sortor was arrested last night after an altercation with protestors. 1215 - Side - associated with LA and SoCal 1220 - How much money were thrown at these comedians performing at the Riyadh Comedy Festival? 1230 - Dom shows off the Bridgestone football. 1250 - Executive Director of the Delaware GOP Nick Miles joins us after University of Delaware students made fun of Charlie Kirk's death on their college's TV network. Has anything happened to the students and faculty who put this on? Has the university brass said anything on the matter? 1 - We need Senator John Kennedy on the program! His new book is hilarious! 105 - Pete Davidson is performing at the Riyadh Comedy Festival, despite his father being a firefighter who died on 9/11. Your calls. 115 - Dr. Victoria Coates joins us today after her and Rich Zeoli penned an Op-Ed for Fox News over Philadelphia City Hall deciding to fly the Chinese flag on their premises. How is this a play for soft power for China? This isn't a pro-Chinese-American stance by our leaders as they would say, would they fly a Cuban flag under the same circumstances? How can Hamas be overtaken in the war between Israel and Palestine? How is Dr. Coates able to articulate and explain the slightly complicated Trump foreign policy? Will there be US boots on the ground? 140 - What is this candidate for AG in Virginia thinking by saying this about a former Speaker of The House? Raw comes after Dom after his appearance this week on NewsMax. Your calls. 150 - Your calls to wrap the hour. 2 - Why did NBC invite Mike Johnson onto the Today Show if they weren't going to let her speak? 205 - What does Joe Concha think of that Mike Johnson clip? We welcome him back to the show today. How is his Top 100 Worst People list coming along? Who is in the top 5 right now? What is the fault line in the Democrat's shutdown strategy right now? When will Joe be back on Fox? 215 - Dom's Money Melody! 220 - Robot masseuses are on the rise in New Jersey! 225 - Your calls. 230 - Pennsylvania Treasurer and candidate for Governor, Stacy Garrity joins us to round out the show as the budget battle has reached an impasse. How are the polling numbers looking and what does Stacy think of the gap between her and Shapiro. Are the “head start” counties looking to cash in or break out of the program? What are the other top issues Pennsylvanians are facing right now? 250 - The Lightning Round!

1 - We need Senator John Kennedy on the program! His new book is hilarious! 105 - Pete Davidson is performing at the Riyadh Comedy Festival, despite his father being a firefighter who died on 9/11. Your calls. 115 - Dr. Victoria Coates joins us today after her and Rich Zeoli penned an Op-Ed for Fox News over Philadelphia City Hall deciding to fly the Chinese flag on their premises. How is this a play for soft power for China? This isn't a pro-Chinese-American stance by our leaders as they would say, would they fly a Cuban flag under the same circumstances? How can Hamas be overtaken in the war between Israel and Palestine? How is Dr. Coates able to articulate and explain the slightly complicated Trump foreign policy? Will there be US boots on the ground? 140 - What is this candidate for AG in Virginia thinking by saying this about a former Speaker of The House? Raw comes after Dom after his appearance this week on NewsMax. Your calls. 150 - Your calls to wrap the hour.

How will the federal government shutdown be felt in Madison? Well, it's too early to know for sure, but the City Cast Madison team discusses how local officials are bracing for the impact. Host Bianca Martin is joined this week by executive producer Hayley Sperling and newsletter editor Rob Thomas. They also break down the latest in the race for governor and its impact on local races, and how Middleton's beloved Chinese-American restaurant might find new life.  Mentioned on the show: Who's running for Wisconsin governor [City Cast Madison]SoulFolk Collective tells Black Madison's stories [City Cast Madison] Test your Madison street name knowledge [City Cast Madison]

[@ 3 min] Alright, this week…Sun-Ly Pierce goes Inside the Huddle. Currently starring in the Met's premiere production of the Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, the Chinese American mezzo-soprano looks back at her break-out season, which included a leading role at Des Moines Metro Opera, being an Operalia finalist, and jumping into her Met debut. [@ 40 min] Plus, in the Two Minute Drill...Grace Bumbry gets the posthumous PBS bump, and everyone hates the new music director at La Fenice. GET YOUR VOICE HEARD Stream new episodes every Saturday at 10 AM CT on amplisoundsradio.com operaboxscore.com facebook.com/obschi1 operaboxscore.bsky.social

Curtis Chin is a writer, filmmaker, activist, and author of the acclaimed memoir Everything I Learned, I Learned in a Chinese Restaurant. His work reflects on growing up gay and Chinese American in 1980s Detroit while working in his family's landmark restaurant.Chung's Cantonese Cuisine, founded by Curtis's great-grandfather, was a legendary Detroit institution for 65 years. Known for its handmade egg rolls and welcoming atmosphere, the restaurant became a cultural hub and safe haven for people from every walk of life.Curtis has taken his family's story global through more than 300 talks across seven countries. His memoir has received widespread recognition from outlets including The New York Times, The Washington Post, and CBS. He continues to tell stories through writing and film, while exploring ways to reconnect with his restaurant roots.Growing up in the dining room taught him about people, service, and the value of making someone's day better.His father taught him to “talk to strangers,” a lesson in curiosity, openness, and seizing opportunities.Chung's exposed him to every side of Detroit — from white-collar professionals and politicians to pimps, drag queens, and movie stars.He values service as much as food, lamenting the loss of human interaction in today's QR code and robot-driven dining experiences.The restaurant sold more than 10 million handmade egg rolls and became a Detroit institution remembered decades after closing.Food anchored his cultural identity and offered a tangible link to his heritage when other ties to China were distant.He believes family restaurants are the “glue” of communities and often serve as civic spaces as important as political offices.Chinese restaurants shaped American dining trends — from takeout and delivery to open kitchens — and remain a vital, unifying presence across the country. QUOTES “I grew up in the restaurant, but I was one of those kids that didn't know how to cook, so I was banished to the dining room. That's where I actually did most of my learning.” (Curtis)“I like to say that even though I don't work in a Chinese restaurant anymore, I'm still that Chinese waiter.” (Curtis)“My dad always gave us that advice — talk to strangers — because he knew the dining room was full of people who had opportunities outside the four walls of that Chinese restaurant.” (Curtis)“For me, going out to eat is really not just about great food, but also about great service.” (Curtis)“I realized, if I'm gonna look up to somebody, it's gonna be my dad and not this Hollywood star.” (Curtis)“Meeting all these people gave me a different perspective, a different way to see the world.” (Curtis)“Detroit in the '80s was really rough. I knew five people murdered by the time I was 18 years old.” (Curtis)“The one connection I did keep to my culture was food — that was the easiest way to hold on to where we came from.” (Curtis)“Chinese restaurants are actually one of the few places where you can go in and see someone from a different race or class and maybe start a conversation.” (Curtis)“Small family restaurants are the glue to a lot of communities.” (Curtis)“Chinese restaurants are going to save America.” (Curtis)

In this episode of 'When Women Preach', host Cris Otonari speaks with Reverend Sally Lee about her experiences as a Chinese American faith leader. They discuss the importance of cultural identity in church leadership, the innovative Dinner Church Collective, and the significance of being present in ministry. Sally emphasizes the need for community, the ministry of presence, and centering Jesus in church planting to create thriving congregations.--Co-Host: Cris Otonari Sound Producer: Joana Choi Music: Paul Choi ISAAC // @isaacfellowship // www.isaacweb.org Disclaimer: The views, actions, and affiliations of guests invited to this podcast do not always reflect ISAAC'S official stances; they belong to the guests. This podcast is a platform for voices to be shared and perspectives to be discussed.

In this episode, Claudia shares the deeply personal journey of how faith became the foundation for her life and leadership. From growing up in a Chinese American immigrant family in New York City, to building a multimillion-dollar women's entertainment company, to burning out in her 30s—Claudia reflects on how church and discovering her relationship with God reshaped everything.She opens up about meeting her husband John, being introduced to church for the first time, and how the messages she heard Sunday after Sunday gave her a new lens for leadership, wholeness, and purpose. This awakening inspired her to create S.H.E. Summit—a global leadership conference—and later the Whole-Self Leaders movement, both dedicated to equipping people to lead change from a place of integrity, courage, and faith.Claudia also shares candid reflections on navigating politics, culture, and identity as a person of faith, why so much of our leadership DNA is rooted in spiritual teachings, and why this moment in history is calling us to slow down, reconnect with our soul, and lead from wholeness.If you've ever wondered how faith can transform not just your inner life, but your ability to impact the world, this conversation will speak to you.

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, the hilarious Maddy Smith joins the show to bring her signature unfiltered wit and razor-sharp perspective. From her fearless stand-up to her scene-stealing moments on Wild 'N Out, Maddy has built a comedy career that thrives on honesty, chaos, and plenty of laughs. When she and Jiaoying get together, you can expect bold takes, outrageous stories, and nonstop fun. This one's as raw and real as it gets!#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #MaddySmithAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Elizabeth Cronlund is joined by Marie Moy to confront some common narratives about Asian American and Pacific Islander populations. They take a look at some of the history of AAPI in the United States, and reflect on the ways that history informs where we find ourselves today. They also share some ways we can build coalitions and stand in solidarity so we are able to move forward together.Learn more about CCDA's AAPI Network at ccda.org/aapi. And make plans to join us at the CCDA Conference this November at ccda.org/conference.Marie Moy serves as the Director of Operations and is a member of the Restorative Practices training and implementation team at Erie County Restorative Justice Coalition (ECRJC). ECRJC's mission is to promote racial and social justice through Restorative Practices, providing training, coaching, consulting, and restorative responses, including Restorative Justice Conferencing in lieu of traditional punitive measures. Marie grew up in a small town in northern Indiana, where her parents owned a Chinese-American restaurant. As children, she and her sisters attended an independent Baptist church. Marie first learned of Christian Community Development while attending Renovation Church in Buffalo in 2010. She participated in CCDA's El Camino del Inmigrante in 2016 with approximately 70 others to bring attention to the plight of immigrants. Marie is a graduate of Northeastern Seminary at Roberts Wesleyan College in Rochester, NY, with an MA in Theology & Social Justice from Indiana University, Bloomington, with a BS in Biochemistry. Marie integrates her background in science and theology to bring just practices to the operations of organizations, and is particularly interested in creating spaces without traditional hierarchy that are inclusive and supportive of marginalized communities. As a second-generation Asian American, Marie is passionate about immigration reform in addition to her work with ECRJC to end mass incarceration and restore relationships and communities. Marie is married with two adult children and a small Cavalier King Charles/poodle mix named Chani. She is a member of the CCDA Board and Leadership Cohort 8, and the John R. Oishei Foundation Karen Lee Spalding Oishei Fellows for Leaders of Color. She is embarking on a sabbatical to spend time with God and an exploration of embodied restorative practices after a long season in nonprofit work.Based in Orlando, FL, Elizabeth Cronlund is the Partnership Development Manager with UNDIVDED, an organization that is activating communities for racial healing and justice. She has more than 15 years of experience in congregational ministry as a Christian Community Developer. Within CCDA, she helps lead the AAPI Network and is a contributing writer for CCDA's Education Equity Handbook. Elizabeth is a Certified Nonprofit Professional (CNP) and attends Northern Seminary.Connect with CCDA on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Follow CCDA on YouTube.

Today we discuss how we approach conflict in our relationships. We try to see if any of our habits trace back to what we learned from our parents, and dissect any learnings from past mistakes.Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

In this episode of the Tiger Mom Podcast, Godfrey returns to the show to divulge on his comedy career and to discuss his immense knowledge of the history of Hong Kong cinema. Whenever these two get together it's guaranteed fun with no filters applied! This is a fun episode #jiaoyingsummers #comedy #standupcomedy #godfreyAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

On this episode, Jiaoying sits down with the internets hottest cosmetic dentist, Dr. Kelly — Most people are afraid to go to the dentist, but Dr. Kelly has her patients clawing to get back into her chair. In a world where limitations are abundant, Dr. Kelly sees none. Between being an amazing mother of 4, a kick-ass dentist, a nutritionist and an actual physical trainer, Dr. Kelly proves everyday that the only thing holding you back is yourself. If you ever needed a source of inspiration to help fuel your motivation, this is it. #jiaoyingsummers #comedy #drkellyAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Today our friends Aileen and Harpreet join us to talk about bringing your social A game to events and hangouts! We chat about what kind of events make us feel the most comfortable socially, and dive into any tips or tricks that help to set the vibes of an event. We discuss whether we actively try to set the vibes or whether we passively enhance it. Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

On this episode, Jiaoying sits down with the hilarious and unstoppable Learnmore Jonasi — the Zimbabwean comedy sensation who's been leaving audiences in stitches from Africa to America. With a style that's equal parts sharp, silly, and wildly unpredictable, Learnmore has a gift for turning everyday chaos into world-class punchlines. From roasting cultural quirks to spinning stories that hit way too close to home, Learnmore has something for everybody. #jiaoyingsummers #comedy #LearnmoreJonasi About Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Today on The LA Food Podcast, we're joined by none other than Nancy Silverton — LA's Queen of Carbohydrates, President of Pizza, and Secretary of Sourdough. Recorded at Osteria Mozza, our free-flowing conversation covers Nancy's legendary career, her impact on multiple eras of Los Angeles dining, and why she continues to bring new and exciting concepts to life. We also preview her upcoming panels at LA Chef Con 2025, including a tribute to Jonathan Gold and a celebration of 10 years of Netflix's Chef's Table.But first, Luca and Father Sal finally make it to Kato, the #1 restaurant on Bill Addison's 101. Did Jon Yao and Ryan Bailey's Michelin-starred spot live up to the hype? We break it down.In Chef's Kiss, Big Miss, we dive into Jenn Harris's review of Nobu, a buzzy new West Hollywood hotspot from a Southern celebrity chef (Sean Brock), plus an ode to the timeless Chinese American combo plate from a local legend.Powered by Acquired Taste Media.–Go check out The Lonely Oyster in Echo Park! ⁠https://thelonelyoyster.com/⁠–Get 10% off at House of Macadamias using code "LAFOOD" https://www.houseofmacadamias.com/pages/la-foods

Asians and Asian Americans are numerous within the classical music industry, but their identities are often politicized and racialized in this Eurocentric musical genre. For the third episode of Obbligato on APEX Express, Isabel Li discusses this intersection with Mari Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music (2007) and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro (2019). Tonight's episode features music by Chinese American composer Zhou Tian. To learn more about Mari and her work, please visit her website: https://www.mariyoshihara.com/index.html  Musicians from a Different Shore: https://tupress.temple.edu/books/musicians-from-a-different-shore-2 Dearest Lenny: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/dearest-lenny-9780190465780?cc=jp&lang=en&  Transcript  Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.    00:00:53 Isabel Li  Good evening. You're listening to KPFA 94.1 FM. My name is Isabel Li and I'm delighted to be hosting a new edition of Obbligato on Apex Express, which is a semimonthly segment specifically about AAPI identities in classical music. Tonight's guest is someone I have been incredibly excited to speak to because her writings have actually very much informed my studies and research. In fact, her books are exactly about the subject matter of Obbligato. I am honored to be speaking to Mario Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music, published in 2007, and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro, which was published in 2019. Welcome to Obbligato on Apex Express. Mari, how are you doing?  00:01:55 Mari Yoshihara  I'm doing fine. Thank you for having me.  00:01:58 Isabel Li  Of course, my first question for you is how do you identify and what communities are you a part of?  00:02:06 Mari Yoshihara  Oh well, that's actually a little bit complicated I am. I am a Japanese woman who have spent a little bit over well, maybe not more than a little more than half of my life in the United States. Born in New York but raised in Tokyo, educated mostly in Japan, but also earned my graduate degrees in the United States and most of my academic career has been in Hawaii, so I've been in American academia for almost 30 years now, but I also have a dual appointment with the University of Tokyo in Japan. So I split my time between Japan and Hawaii now.  00:02:54 Isabel Li  Can you tell us a little bit about your work and your books? I had a chance to read Musicians from a Different Shore, but how would you summarize your research to someone who might not have read your book?  00:03:04 Mari Yoshihara  So I am a scholar of American studies, which is an interdisciplinary field that has anything to do with America broadly defined. And within that, my area of expertise is about, well, I would say I'm a scholar of US cultural history. US Asian relations, mostly US, East Asian relations, especially in the cultural dimension, cultural studies, gender studies, Asian American studies, etc. And so I have written a number of books, both in English and Japanese, but the one that you're referring to, Musicians from a Different Shore, is a book that I did research for more than 20 years ago and was published in 2007. It's a study of Asians and Asian Americans and classical music. So it was partly historical in that I examined the ways. which Western music, so-called western classical music, was introduced to East Asia and how also East Asians became have become so successful and prominent in this field that is generally considered a white European elite art form, so it was partly historical, but then the rest of the book was based on my ethnographic field work and interviews among Asians and Asian Americans in classical music looking at how well who these people are in the first place and then also how musicians, Asian and Asian musicians themselves, understand the relationship between their racial and cultural identity on the one hand, and their practice of Western classical music on the other, so that was my study.   And then I also wrote another book called Dearest Lenny. It's about—the subtitle is Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro. It's about Leonard Bernstein's relationship with two very special individuals in Japan. And through that story, I interweave an account of various things. For one thing, how Leonard Bernstein became a world maestro and also the relationship between politics and arts, gender, sexuality, art and commerce, etcetera, etcetera. So that was my most recent book published in English and then, I'm sure we'll talk more about this, but I'm currently doing a follow up research on the on Musicians from a Different Shore, taking into account all the changes that have been taking place in the classical music industry in the United States in the past, I would say five years or so especially so that's my that's the abbreviated version of my research.  00:05:55 Isabel Li  That's really cool, and I also want to ask you about these changes, if you can talk a little bit about the classical music world. I feel like classical music is one of those genres that seems to be unchanging on the outside. But as a scholar of classical music, what types of changes have you observed that has influenced how AAPI identities play into this world?  00:06:18 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah, I think especially in the last, I would say, yeah, 5 to 10 years, especially in the last five years, classical music industry in the United, I mean I say specifically in the United States because I don't see the similar kind of changes taking place in Japan where I'm currently located. And I also don't really know the situation in Europe. But the field of classical music in the US is changing. I think most significantly because of movements like the Black Lives Matter movement and also with the onset of COVID and the rise of anti Asian hate, there's been a lot more heightened awareness about how issues of race and also class shapes classical music. So there's a lot more vibrant conversations and debates about these topics in the industry and also in terms of AAPI community, are the biggest changes, the biggest change I'm seeing is that Asian and Asian American musicians themselves are being a lot more vocal and active in issues of race and racism in the field and there I've encountered many Asian and Asian American musicians who have, for instance, you know organized events or organizations, or taken up various forms of advocacy and activism on these issues. So compared to, say, 20 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, when I was doing the original research, I see a lot more kind of, you know, explicit awareness and awareness and articulation of these issues by Asian and Asian American musicians themselves.  00:08:12 Isabel Li  That's really interesting. Just because classical music is also one of those genres, that doesn't seem like a genre that most people explicitly associate with politics or activism. What are some examples of these, like activist movements that you've observed within the Asian American community in classical music?  00:08:32 Mari Yoshihara  So for instance, some Asian and Asian American musicians are are becoming a lot more vocal about the actual like racism or sexism that they have themselves experienced, or that they witness in the industry, like in in schools, conservatories, orchestras, opera companies, etc. Either through the media or you know their own writing, and also like speaking up within the organizations that they work in. So that's one. There are other kinds of advocacy and activism in that they demand more diverse repertoire, and I think the repertoire is in terms of the industry industry changes. That's the area that's changing the most, the the kind of repertoire that many orchestras for instance perform have become a lot more– I mean overall it's still very white, European centered– but in terms of the actual numbers of pieces that are performed, works by living, composers and composers of color, women composers, etcetera. That is significantly increased in the last 10 years and that is, you know significantly to do with the advocacy and activism on the part of, you know, artists of color.  So yeah, so things like that and then, you know, many Asian, Asian American artists are doing their own programming, for instance, like event organizing programming. So yeah, those are the areas that I see changes. I see things happening that I didn't see 25 years ago.  00:10:20 Isabel Li  Definitely. I remember reading your book, and your book has been published since 2007, so a lot of changes have happened since then. But in general, when you did your research at first, what how would you summarize the dynamic of Asian identities, Asian American identities in this very Eurocentric field, it's a juxtaposition of two different cultures and identities that a lot of people also observe in orchestras. There's a large population of Asian and Asian American musicians, conductors just in general. It's a very large population, but yet this identity is still not quite represented in media. It's not quite seen, so talk to us a bit about this juxtaposition and how you observe these dynamics in your research.  00:11:10 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So. The thing is, Asians and Asian Americans are indeed numerically overrepresented in classical music, in the sense that compared to the general public, the the the proportion of Asians and Asian Americans in the overall US population, the number of Asian and Asian Americans in classical music indexed by things like the student body at major conservatories or membership roster of US orchestras, etcetera, Asians and Asian Americans percentage is higher than the general population, right. So in terms of the numbers, Asians and Asian Americans are, quote unquote overrepresented. But those numbers are not reflected in the actual like voice, power and influence that they have in the industry.   So that was my finding back 2025 years ago and I think that's still true today. Also, the thing about Asian, Asian American musicians is that it's a racialized category. They are seeing and treated as Asian. It's this racial category. But their identities and experiences as Asians is not at all uniform, right?   Some of these Asian musicians are Asian Americans, like multi generational Asian Americans whose parents or grandparents or great grandparents etcetera have come to the United States and they themselves are U.S. citizens. So that's one group.   Many Asian musicians working in the United States are people who were born and raised in Asia, places like China or South Korea, Japan, etcetera, and came to the United States as international students to study music, often at the college level, college conservatory level, so obviously these people have very different sense of identity and experience as Asians compared to say, you know 3rd, 4th generation Chinese Americans or 1.5 Korean Americans.   There are other people who live in the United States because they were very talented, very young musicians, and the whole whole family immigrated to the United States specifically for their music education. So Midori, the famous violinist, Midori is a case, example of this, but there are also a number of other, especially among Koreans and Chinese. There are families, the whole family immigrated to the United States when the child was a very promising musician at age 7 or something. So that's one group. They too have a different sense of identity and experience of Asians than the two former groups that I that I talked about.   There are other people who also came to the United States because not because of the music education, but because of their parents' profession, for instance. And they have transnational kind of family ties and you know, they move, they go back and forth between US and Asia, for instance. And then there are also mixed roots families where one parent is Asian and the other is non Asian.   And then there are also Asians who were born and raised in Europe for other parts of the globe and then came to the United States, for either personal or professional reasons.   So in other words, they're all Asians in terms of their racial identity. But what that means is really quite diverse and their experience as Asian and Asian American musicians is also quite diverse. So it's not as if you know, just because they're Asian, they share some kind of experience and identities around which they coalesce. So that's, you know, that was true 20, 25 years ago. And I think that's still true today.  More and more Asian musicians are coming to the United States to study, study or work in classical music, but especially because of this, like new influence, this Asian category is becoming even more diverse. However, because of the COVID, you know the rise of Anti Asian hate during the COVID pandemic, I think that heightened the awareness of, you know, these different kinds of Asians, the heightened awareness that they are Asians. First and foremost, you know, in, in that in the sense of being racialized in the United States. So I have talked with a number of musicians, Asians and Asian American musicians, who did not really, hadn't thought about their Asianness before. It wasn't at the forefront of their identity before, but during this rise of anti Asian hate it they became they basically became more politicized. You know, they had quite a politicized language and awareness to think about race and racism especially against Asians and Asian Americans.  00:16:31 Isabel Li  Yeah, that's a great point. It is a such a diverse group and there are so many different identities, even within just the Asian American framework AAPI, as a label is very, very diverse. And that applies to classical music as well. But I think there's also this social perception of Asian and Asian Americans as a group that also relates to the model minority stereotype that's historically been present and, for example, a lot of people might think of, like a young Asian or Asian American musician as being like a prodigy because they are technically skilled at their instrument, where like these social perceptions that exist both in media and in the culture around us, why do you think that is?  00:17:15 Mari Yoshihara  Well, that as you said, there is a model minority myth and there is a stereotype of Asians and Asian Americans as being very studious and diligent, but also quiet, right? I mean, they just quietly follow, like, obedient, obediently follow the instructions and that translates in the field of music as the stereotype that Asian musicians are technically very proficient but artistically non expressive. I mean, that's a very common stereotype that yeah, you know, practically any Asian, Asian Americans in classical music have been subjected to, you know, quite regularly and frequently. And I think that, yeah, that just comes with the overall kind of racial stereotype of Asians and Asians and Asian Americans in American society at large. And also the fact that, you know, classical music, especially in terms of instrumental performance, it is an area that is, it's something that is, indeed, technically very demanding, right? You need many, many years of disciplined training and a lot of practice. And there is a myth of merit– well, no, not entirely a myth– but there is this this very, you know, dearly held faith in meritocracy in classical music. The idea that if you have the chops you will be rewarded, you will be recognized and you know, no matter what kind of great artistic idea you might have, if you can't play the notes, you can't play the notes. That kind of ethos of meritocracy is particularly strong in classical music because of the technical demands of the genre, and that and that kind of, you know, goes hand in hand with the model minority methods for Asian Americans.  00:19:20 Isabel Li  Definitely. That's really interesting and another part of your book that was quite fascinating to me when I first read it was chapter 3. You talked about the intersection of gender as well as, you know, racial identity in classical music. The chapter is called Playing Gender and you talk about, I think at large don't necessarily associate classical music with a discipline that provides a stable job. It is an art form and there is kind of an uphill battle for artists in a sense like a starving artist myth there. We're not even a myth. Like if there's a starving artist image, whereas the image of a very successful classical musician there's this duality that you also mentioned in one of your other chapters about class. So what really interested me in for this chapter was that there was this intersection of power in classical music of who would go down the path that might not be traditionally as successful. How do you think gender dynamics play into this and how do you think they might have shifted within the last two decades or so?  00:20:20 Mari Yoshihara  Huh. I'm not sure if it has shifted all that much in the last two decades, but as you said, because music I mean, not just classical music, but music. Like, you know, arts in general is a field that is very like economically insecure in terms of career, right?   But at the same time. Classical music is associated with kind of, you know, bourgeois identity and just kind of overall cultivation and so, many Asian, Asian American parents are very eager to send their kids to, say, piano lessons, violin lessons, cello lessons, etcetera. To, you know, give them a well-rounded education and also because it is considered useful tool, you know, when you're going to college and stuff like, you know being, you know, being able to show that you're very talented violinist, for instance, is believed to help your college application.  So there's this, you know, both stereotype and reality that like, you know, places like Julliard Pre-College, very competitive, you know, school, like music education program for kids is filled with Asian, Asian American, you know, students and their parents who are waiting, waiting for them to come out of school.   So there's that. But how gender plays into this is that while both men and women are do study music at a young age. When it comes to, you know, choosing say, college, like what they would, what they would pursue at the college level, far fewer male students tend to choose music as their college major or go to conservatory and pursue it as a as a career. But I think it's both their own choice. And also especially for Asian and Asian Americans, like parental pressure to not pursue music professionally because of, you know, financial insecurity.   So there's that, and also how that plays into the actual experiences of Asian, Asian Americans musicians who do study music is that I have heard from a number of female Asian musicians that either their peers or especially their teachers are doubtful that they are actually serious about music. There is a stereotype that, you know, say for instance, Japanese or Korean female students at Juilliard School, Manhattan School or whatever, they are there because they, you know, they want to study music and then find a good husband and marry, you know, a lawyer or doctor or engineer or something. [laughs] And and not that that doesn't happen. But that's a stereotype of, you know, that's a racialized and gender stereotype that comes from these, you know, gender and class and racialized dynamics.  00:23:35 Isabel Li  And just for clarification, is the classical music world at large still a male dominated field?  00:23:41 Mari Yoshihara  Yes. Oh yes. Definitely. I mean, it depends on the segment of you know, I mean classical music is itself quite diverse. So if you look at, for instance, the string section, especially the violin section of the New York Philharmonic for instance, you will find that like, I think the majority of those violin players are Asian women, perhaps. But if you look at say for instance, the Faculty of Conservatories or music directors and major orchestras and said, I mean still very male dominated.  00:24:23 Isabel Li  Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I like how your book also has so many different layers for each chapter. So Chapter 3 was about the gender intersection with this, with this identity, and Chapter 4, was it Chapter 4, I believe it was about class, Class Notes, and you've already mentioned a little bit about how class plays into the perception of music, how class influences gender even. But there's a statement in there that you said that, “it's misleading to characterize Asian musicians as just coming from the upper middle class.” And it makes sense that people would think of musicians coming from this economic bracket, because classical music is an in and of itself a very kind of expensive undertaking. You need so many lessons, so many instruments. But tell us why this statement would be misleading.  00:25:15 Mari Yoshihara  Because I mean, first of all, most of the overwhelmed, I would say overwhelming majority of the Asian, Asian American musicians that I interviewed come from middle class backgrounds, many of them from so-called like professional executive class backgrounds in, meaning that their parents hold these professional executive positions, right. And that's why they were able to afford advanced musical studies from a fairly young age. They need, you know, sustained and disciplined and often costly, you know, lessons, you know, competitions, etcetera, auditions, travel, etcetera. So that's for sure, yeah.   At the same time, there are also Asian musicians who come from less privileged backgrounds, you know, immigrant families who have, because quite a few. I mean overall Asian American population, many immigrants experience downward social mobility upon immigrating to the United States because of, you know, oftentimes linguistic barriers or you know, or plain old racism. And so you're not Asian families that immigrate to the United States, like, for instance, if the parents have professional positions back in South Korea, oftentimes they become, you know, for instance, you know, small business owners and they experience downward social mobility. I mean, that's a very common scenario. Yeah, so now all Asian, Asian American musicians grow up in a privileged environment.  00:27:06 Isabel Li  Definitely a great point. Now before we move on to some discussions about Mari's research. First of all, thank you for tuning in to Obbligato on APEX Express, we'll be taking a short music break and as mentioned earlier, a great way to increase diversity within classical music is to uplift works by living composers. If you're listening to my first.  00:27:26 Isabel Li  Episode 2 months ago, you'll know that I featured music by Chinese American composer Zhou Tian. I'm happy to say that coming up next is one of Zhou's compositions inspired by a trip to Italy. This is a piece called Hidden Grace performed by the Formosa Trio.  27:45 – COMP MUSIC – Hidden Grace  00:35:34 Isabel Li  That was a piece called Hidden Grace, composed by Zhou Tian for a fascinating instrumentation of flute, Viola and heart coming up for our second piece. In this interview, break another movement by Zhou Tian, the third movement of his double concerto for violin and Viola, called Rendezvous.  35:58 – COMP MUSIC – Double Concerto for Violin and Viola, III. Rendezvous  00:41:09 Isabel Li  Noah Bendix-Balgley on violin, Shanshan Yao on viola, and the Hangzhou Philharmonic, playing the third and final movement of Zhou Tian's Double Concerto for violin and viola. So back to the conversation with Professor Mari Yoshihara.  00:41:25 Isabel Li  As you also mentioned before, you're working on an updated version of Musicians from a Different Shore. Can you talk–I don't know how much you can talk about your, like upcoming projects, but are you using similar research methods to what you've done before using ethnographic field work? You've mentioned the new changing dynamics of classical music in the United States with new waves of activism and awareness. What are some new topics of your chapters that you might focus on? So for your 2007 publication, you talked about your gender and class and how these intersect with identity. Are there any new things that you're drawing upon here?  00:42:02 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So I'm using basically the same research method. I'm interviewing actually some of the same people that appeared in Musicians from a Different Shore. Some people kept in touch with over the years, I've gone back to them and interviewed them to see the trajectories of their careers since the first time I interviewed them. But then I've also interviewed a bunch of other, you know, new musicians that I'm speaking with for the first time. So it's essentially an interview and ethnographic fieldwork-based research.  I told you earlier about I think one of the biggest changes is, as I said before, the activism and advocacy on the part of Asian, Asian American musicians themselves. So I have one chapter about that. Like, what? How? What kinds of advocacy and activism they're engaged in.   Another big change that I'm seeing is that compared to 20 years ago, there are a lot more Asian musicians in the field of opera.  00:43:01 Isabel Li  Ohh yeah.  00:43:02 Mari Yoshihara  Uh. Both as singers. Yeah, many of them singers, but also in other, you know, like for instance opera, you know, pianist for opera or be opera directors, et cetera. There are many more Asians in this particular field than what I saw 20 years ago. And I talked about this a little bit in my first book, but opera is a very particular kind of field within classical music.   How race plays into opera is very different from other areas of classical music because it's a theatrical art form. It's visually oriented, you know art form. And because singers have to be cast in order to, you know, sing on stage. So the racial politics in opera, you know, unfolds very differently from, say, for pianists or cellists or conductors or or composers.   So I now have a whole chapter about opera, especially Madame Butterfly, that this very fraught work, you know, opera that many Asian and Asian Americans have love hate relationships. A lot of pigeon-holing that happens in that through that opera. But also, production of new opera by Asian and Asian American artists, composers, directors, singers, etcetera. So I have a whole chapter about that.   And then I also will have another chapter about, you know, what it means to, you know, sit at the table, basically. Like stand on the podium and sit at the table, stand on the podium. Not only, I mean I will, I will have a whole discussion about Asian and Asian Americans conductors, but not only in that literal sense of, you know, standing at the podium, but like being at the table like in other words, not only, Asian and Asian American musicians playing music that are given to them and they are assigned to them that they're hired to play, but also having a real voice in the organizational and institutional dimensions of classical music industry. So the kinds of people, Asians, who are in these positions more executive positions with decision making power what their experiences are like. I'm going to have a chapter about that.   So those are some of my ideas. I'm still in the middle of the project, so I can't. I can't see the whole picture, but those are some of my current ideas.  00:45:48 Isabel Li  I see. And do you have an idea of when this book will be published or an updated version?  00:45:54 Mari Yoshihara  Well [laughs], my goal rather ambitious goal is to have it published in 2027, because that would be 20 years since Musicians from a Different Shore, so that would be ideal if I can make that.  00:46:08 Isabel Li  Well, yeah. Nice. That's really exciting, definitely. I will also kind of bridge, I guess my part of the research into this part of the interview, since I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about how classical music in general is portrayed in media.   So as I've introduced myself before, I had a back, I have a background in media studies as well as music history and theory. And what was really interesting to me in my senior thesis while I was doing research for that was I coined this term and it could just be loosely associated with the genre of film. But it's the “classical music film.” So think of any narrative fictional film you can think of with a classical musician in there. So it could be like Amadeus, where I think of like Tár. If you watch Tár like a lot of these depictions are quite understandably white and European, but they my senior thesis I've never really seen any depictions of Asian American or Asian classical musicians? I was wondering if you have ever watched a film like that, or could maybe talk a bit about maybe the lack of representation in media, how media plays into how people perceive classical music as a genre as a whole.  00:47:23 Mari Yoshihara  That is a very interesting question. I think you know, because of the stereotype of Asian and Asian American model minority and model minority stereotype often is associated with, you know, violin or piano-playing Asian American kids, I think. Asian, Asian American characters who are, you know, these kind of musical classical music geniuses appear here and there. But the ones that center on such a character as the main, you know, like the protagonist, come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen. I mean, I've seen several Korean dramas, you know, character, but those are Korean dramas, not Asian American, so more American works with Asian classical musicians…  00:48:21 Isabel Li  And I think also classical music as a genre is. It's interesting because classical music is also kind of underrepresented. It's not quite in the mainstream. And then one of my final questions for you is I do also want to take a second to acknowledge that your book was actually one of the only books that I could find about this topic. I think there are not that many other books about Asian and Asian Americans in classical music. I think there are a few other books and a few and definitely some papers that talk about this, but what got you interested in this field? And I don't know if you think there's a scarcity of information, but do you think there's relative scarcity of information about this topic?  00:49:01 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So how I got into it is. So I was a pretty serious student of piano when I was a child. That's like, yeah, that really kind of preoccupied my childhood and adolescence. But then I, for various reasons I ended up not going to a music Conservatory and became an academic.   And then once I entered academia and became a scholar of American studies, all I was studying was like race, gender, class. I mean, that's what  we do in American studies. And my first book, which was originally my doctoral dissertation, was a cultural history of orientalism and white women. So that was a study of the intersections of race and gender and to some extent class in American history.   So once I finished that book, I was thinking about what projects to work on next. And I happened to turn on the TV, and it just so happens that the Vienna Phil New Year's concert, conducted by Seiji Ozawa was playing on the TV and that was sort of my “aha” moment because I had always known or, you know, kind of generally aware that Asians and Asian Americans are, if not necessarily overrepresented, but, you know, they're quite numerous, you know. They're present. Their numerical presence is quite notable in classical music that is often associated with white, you know, European culture, elite culture.  So I was kind of curious about that phenomenon, but I hadn't really thought too much about it until I watched Seiji Ozawa were conducting the Vienna Phil. And that's when I thought, well, maybe I can kind of combine my classical music background and my academic training in studies of race, gender, class into this project. So that's when I decided to work on. You know, this topic of Asians and Asian Americans, classical music.  I think the reason that there hadn't been at least a book-length study on the topic until my book is that for one thing, classical music is considered to be kind of a very abstract absolute form of music. This ethos that it is kind of transcends– that it is a universal, transcendental kind of genre, that is sort of above things like politics or race or gender. Like it shouldn't matter that these, you know, individual identity, racialized gender identity shouldn't matter vis-à-vis the universalism of classical music. I mean that kind of ethos is very strong in this particular genre of music. I think that has a lot to do with it.   And also the study of classical music until rather recently, like musicological study of classical music, really tended to be focused on the study of composers and their works, right? It was the textual that, like it, was an analysis of Beethoven Symphony or, you know, Bach Fugues, etcetera. Yeah. It was really focused on the study of the score, the study of the composer's ideas, as reflected in the score, I mean that was the centerpiece of musicological approach to classical music.  And so sort of more sociological anthropological study of the musical practice is a relatively new approach in in the field of musicology. I'm not a musicologist. So that's not how I'm trained. But I think the academic approach to classical music was not very, kind of, open to the kinds of topics that I raised in Musicians from a Different Shore.  00:53:12 Isabel Li  Definitely. I see. And my very final fun question for you is can you name three of your favorite classical music pieces for any recommendations you have for the audience who might be listening, who might be wondering what they will listen to next?  00:53:27 Mari Yoshihara  Well, OK well. Pieces well, because I wrote a book about Leonard Bernstein. I mean, I ended up– I wrote a book about Leonard Bernstein. Not necessarily because I was an avid fan of Bernstein. It just kind of happened this this project. But nonetheless of while I was doing research and writing the book I did listen to a lot of Bernstein. I and I have come to really love Bernstein music and so. And you know, of course, everybody knows West Side Story, but he actually wrote many other pieces that may not be as well known.   Well among the pieces that I like, I like…which one should I choose? I will choose. Ohh well, I'll choose a piece that I learned myself as a pianist.  I learned the piece called “Touches” that he wrote. It was a commission piece for the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, and it's kind of yeah, it's a chorale and variation. So that's very interesting and very interesting and very Bernstein-esque so well.   I'll OK, as an American study scholar. I'll, I'll stick with American pieces. I like someone Barber a lot. I like Barber “Excursions,” which I also learned to play.  00:55:04 Isabel Li  Yeah.  00:55:09 Isabel Li  Tough question.  00:55:11 Mari Yoshihara  Umm, Mason Bates piece that I also learned, “White Lies For Lomax.” This one was also, I believe…was it commissioned by the Cliburn? But no, maybe it wasn't. Yeah, I think it was commissioned. But anyway, I played it at the Van Cliburn International– the amateur competition of the Cliburn competition.  I did all these. So like Bernstein, Bates, Amy Beach piece I also played. Yeah, I'll stop there. I I wish you had prepped me for that then [laughs]–  00:55:42 Isabel Li  Oh my gosh. Great responses.  00:55:46 Mari Yoshihara  Hard to think on the spot.  00:55:47 Isabel Li  Yeah, I totally get that. Whenever people ask me for my favorite composer, I never have an answer. No, so I totally get it.   Well, thank you so much for your time, Mari. And thank you for your wonderful insights. I'll put the link to your books so that people can learn about your works on APEX Express on kpfa.org. So thank you so much for your time, Mari.  00:56:07 Mari Yoshihara  Thank you.  00:56:09 Isabel Li  As mentioned, please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about Mari Yoshihara, her scholarship, and links to two of her books. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important.  00:56:31 Isabel Li  APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, and Cheryl Truong. Tonight's show was produced by Isabel Li. Thanks to the team at KPFA  for their support. Have a great night.  [OUTRO MUSIC]  The post APEX Express – 09.04.2025 – Obbligato with Mari Yoshihara appeared first on KPFA.

On this episode, Jiaoying  sits down with the brilliant and visionary Kyle Chan — world-renowned jewelry designer, entrepreneur, and creative force behind some of Hollywood's most iconic red carpet looks. From crafting dazzling pieces for stars you've seen on stage and screen to redefining what it means to blend art with fashion, Kyle brings his signature mix of innovation, passion, and storytelling to every conversation.#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #KyleChanAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

Today we talk about how we decatastrophizing when we feel overwhelmed or anxious. We dive into some of our most common cycles and coping mechanisms, as well as ways we've learned to break out of our negative thought loops and combat our bad habits. We also evaluate how often our catastrophes tend to happen & how intense they can be.Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

As Eric Adams says, New York is the Zagreb of America. People from all over the world come to New York to make their dreams come true. And sometimes, those dreams are illegal. Today we talk about the second indictment for longtime Adams consigliere Ingrid Lewis-Martin for taking a TV series cameo in exchange for impeding a street safety redesign that would have complicated access to co-defendants Gina and Tony Argento's Broadway Stages in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Other aides are swept up in that case too. And then there's Winnie Greco, Adams's longtime liaison to the Chinese-American community, who apparently tried to give approximately $140 to reporter Katie Honan of THE CITY, a sum that was placed in a red envelope stuffed inside an empty bag of potato chips.Greatest city in the world.In non-Eric Adams news, John Bolton's home outside Washington D.C. was raided by the FBI early Friday morning, apparently searching for classified documents. Ken and I discuss what showings the DOJ must have made to get the search warrant. Plus: Kilmar Abrego Garcia's arguments that he is being subjected to selective and vindictive prosecution, an appeals court in New York threw out the nearly half-billion dollar disgorgement penalty against Trump and his businesses, Newsmax will pay $67 million to Dominion Voting Systems to settle defamation litigation about the 2020 election, and a judge's decision that Alina Habba isn't the US Attorney for New Jersey, and we look at a favorable ruling for the beleaguered Media Matters for America.Visit serioustrouble.show for a transcript of this episode. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.serioustrouble.show/subscribe

Jess here! A while back, Sarina and KJ talked about how much they enjoyed Tess Gerritsen's novel, The Spy Coast, and Sarina reassured KJ she'd enjoy book two of the series even more. I had never read a Tess Gerritsen novel, and while I'd heard her name before and vaguely understood she wrote thrillers, I was starting from square one when I downloaded the audio version of The Spy Coast. Now, I'm not an international spy thriller kind of gal. In the abstract, I understand the allure of books like Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy or Six Days of the Condor. Spies! Intrigue! International [almost exclusively men] of mystery! But they have never really floated my proverbial boat. That said, I loved Tess Gerritsen's spies and the world they inhabit. There's a sense of place - nay, a downright LOVE of place - and a retiring, rural New England domesticity that spoke to this retiring, rural New England reader. Book two, The Summer Guests, is even more rooted in Maine, on its history and the social dynamics of its natives and its summer people. Once I tore through those first two books, I went back to Gerritsen's first book, The Surgeon, one of Time Magazine's top 100 thriller/mystery books of all time and the first in the Rizzoli & Isles series, consequently made into a long-running television series. Gerritsen has a fascinating career trajectory, lots to talk about regarding pantsing and plotting, where the ideas come from, and lots of other geeky details about the writing life. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. Find Tess at Tessgerritsen.com, or on Bluesky, @TessGerritsen Transcript below!EPISODE 462 - TRANSCRIPTJennie NashHey everyone, it's Jennie Nash, founder and CEO of Author Accelerator, the company I started more than 10 years ago to lead the emerging book coaching industry. In October, we'll be enrolling a new cohort of certification students who will be going through programs in either fiction, nonfiction, or memoir, and learning the editorial, emotional, and entrepreneurial skills that you need to be a successful book coach. If you've been curious about book coaching and thinking that it might be something you want to do for your next career move, I'd love to teach you more about it, you can go to bookcoaches.com/waitlist to check out the free training I have—that's bookcoaches.com/waitlist. The training is all about how to make money, meaning, and joy out of serving writers. Fall is always a great time to start something new. So if you're feeling called to do this, go check out our training and see if this might be right for you. We'd love to have you join us.Multiple SpeakersIs it recording? Now it's recording, yay. Go ahead. This is the part where I stare blankly at the microphone. I don't remember what I'm supposed to be doing. All right, let's start over. Awkward pause. I'm going to rustle some papers. Okay, now—one, two, three.Jess LaheyHey, this is Jess Lahey, and this is the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast. This is the podcast about writing all the things—short things, long things, poetry, prose, narrative nonfiction, fiction, creative nonfiction, queries, proposals. This is the podcast about writing all the things. More than anything else, this is the podcast about the writing life and about getting the work done. I am Jess Lahey. I'm the author of The Gift of Failure and The Addiction Inoculation. And you can find my journalism at The Atlantic and The Washington Post, and my bi-weekly (formerly bi-weekly) column at The New York Times, The Parent-Teacher Conference, ran for about three years I am joined today by Sarina Bowen, who has written 50-odd books. She has written lots and lots of romance, and her most recent addition to the world of publishing has been her thrillers, Dying to Meet You and The Five Year Lie. And she has a book coming out this fall called Thrown for a Loop. The reason I am recording this intro on my own—which, as you may know if you've been listening, is highly unusual for us—is because I know myself. And I know when I'm really excited to talk to someone on the podcast; I'm going to flub the intro. I'm going to forget something. I'm going to forget to introduce them altogether. So today, I'm doing that first, so I don't mess it up. A while ago on the podcast, you may have heard Sarina and KJ read some books by an author named Tess Gerritsen. I had heard of Tess Gerritsen, but I had never read any of her books. I just hadn't yet. I haven't read Nora Roberts yet. I haven't read—there are lots of authors I haven't read yet. And sometimes you don't even know where to start. So when Sarina and KJ recommended Tess Gerritsen's new series set in Maine—the first one being The Spy Coast and the second one being The Summer Guests—I figured I had a good place to start. And you know, as a New Englander, I love a good book about New England, and that was the start of my interest in Tess Gerritsen's work. I have gone back to the beginning and started with her book The Surgeon, which was her first book in the series that became the Rizzoli and Isles Series, as well as a television show. Tess Gerritsen has a—she's written through 33 books at this point. And as I now know, she has also directed a documentary called Magnificent Beast about pigs, which I listened to this morning while I was vacuuming the house. I loved it. She also—she has a lot to say about genre, about publishing, about second careers, about a writing place, and about process. So let's just jump right into it. I am so excited to introduce to you today, Tess Gerritsen. So from the perspective of what our listeners love—this podcast, the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast —is super geek. People who love the nuts and bolts and the dorky details of the writing life. Sarina has a past life in finance, and so she tends to be, like, our “no, but let's talk about the numbers” kind of person. I'm just the research super dork, which is why I spent my morning watching your documentary about pigs.Tess GerritsenOh my god! (Laughing)Jess LaheyMagnificent Beast. I—I've joked in the past that if I could, I would probably just research things in—in, you know, maybe there'll be a book out there, maybe there won't, but I would research things and—and just learn as much as I could. And so I loved—loved—your Magnificent Beast documentary. I thought it was fantastic. But one of the reasons that we wanted to talk to you, just from the very beginning, is that we feel like you do some pretty incredible world-building and relationship-building with your places and your characters. And so I just—I would love to start there, mainly with the idea of starting with the real nuts and bolts stuff, which is, like, what does an average writing day look like for you? And how do you, sort of—how do you set that up? What does it look like, if you have an average writing day? Maybe you don't.Tess GerritsenWell, it's hard to describe an average writing day, because every day is—there are days when you sit at your desk and you just, you know, pull your hair. And there are days when you get distracted by the news. And there are many days when I just do not want to write. But when I'm writing, the good days are when my characters are alive and talking to me. And it's—it's—you talked about world-building and character-building. That is really key to me. What are they saying to me? Can I hear their voices? And it sounds a little—a little crazy, because I am hearing voices. But it's those voices that really make characters come alive.Jess LaheyI—You have said in other interviews that you are very much—sorry to those of you who hate the terms—that you are very much a pantser. And you are sitting on this interview with a consummate plotter. Sarina is our consummate plotter. So could you talk a little bit about how those character—how those voices—influence, you know, the pantsing of the—of the book, and—and how that works for you?Tess GerritsenWell, I mean, it is weird that I am a pantser. And it's funny—I think that people who are plotters tend to be people who are in finance or in law, because they're used to having their ducks lined up, you know. They—they want everything set up ahead of time, and it makes them feel comfortable. And I think a large part of becoming a pantser is learning to be comfortable with unpredictability. Learning to just let things happen, and know you're going to take wrong turns, know you're going to end up in blind alleys—and yet just keep on forging ahead and change direction. So I suppose that what helps me become a pantser, as I said, is hearing a character's voice. If, for instance, when I wrote The Spy Coast, the first thing I heard about that book was Maggie Bird's voice. And she just said, “I'm not the woman I used to be.” And that's an opening there, right? Because you want to find out, Maggie, who did you used to be? And why do you sound so sad? So a lot of it was just—just getting into her head and letting her talk about what a day-to-day life is, which is, you know, raising chickens and collecting eggs and becoming—and being—a farmer. And then she does something surprising in that very first chapter. There's a fox that's killing her chickens, so she grabs her rifle and kills it with one shot. And that opens up another thing, like—how are you, a 62-year-old woman, able to take out a rifle and kill a fox with one shot? So it's—it's those things. It's those revelations of character. When they come out and they tell you something, or they show you they—they have a skill that you weren't aware of, you want to dig deeper and find out, you know, where did they get that skill?Sarina BowenAnd that is a really fun way to show it. I mean, you're talking today with two people who have also kept chickens.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Jess LaheyAnd had foxes take their chickens, actually.Sarina BowenOh yes, because the two go together.Tess GerritsenYes.Sarina BowenBut yes, I admit I have never shot a fox, and maybe wouldn't.Jess LaheyI have yelled very loudly at a fox, and he actually—I have to say—really mad respect for the fox, because he took one look at me—he did drop the chicken that I was yelling at him for grabbing—and then he went across the street, around the neighbor's house, around the back of the other neighbor's house, and came at the exact same chicken from the other side of the house, where I couldn't see him out the window.Tess GerritsenOh, they are so smart. They are so smart.Jess LaheySo smart. Sarina, it sounded like you had something— you had something you wanted to add, and I interrupted you when we were talking about pantsing and we were talking about world-building and characters speaking to you.Sarina BowenWell, I just had thought that it was a lovely moment to explain why I was so excited to read this book after I heard Tess speak at Thriller Fest 2024, in a packed room where there was nowhere to sit except on the floor. You told the audience a little bit of a story from your real life that—that made you want to write that book. And I wonder if you could tell us what that was, because for me—I mean, we were only five minutes into your talk, and I'm like, oh, I'm—I'm going to download that tonight.Tess GerritsenWell, yes, it was. A lot of my books come from ideas that I've been stewing over for years. I have a folder called the ideas folder. It's an actual physical manila folder. And if I see something in an article or a newspaper or a magazine, I'll just rip it out and stick it in there, and it sometimes takes a long time before I know how to turn this into a book. So the idea for The Spy Coast is a little bit of obscure knowledge that I learned 35 years ago, when I first moved to Maine. My husband is a medical doctor. He opened up a practice, and when he would bring in new patients, he would always get an occupational history. And he used to get this answer—this very strange answer—from his new patients. They would say, “I used to work for the government, but I can't talk about it.” And after he heard that three times, he thought, what town did we land in? And who are these people? And we later found out that on our very short street, on one side of us was a retired OSS person, and on the other side was retired CIA. A realtor told us that our town was full of CIA retirees. So, I mean, of course you want to ask, why did they get here? What are they doing here? What are their lives like? I knew there was a book in there, but I didn't know what that book was. I needed 35 years to come up with the idea. And what I really needed to do was become old and—and realize that as you get older, especially women, we become invisible. People don't pay attention to us. We are over the hill. You know, everybody looks at the young, pretty chicks, but once you start getting gray hair, you fade into the background. And with that experience myself; I began to think more and more about what it's like to be retired. What is it like to be retired from a job that was maybe dangerous, or exciting, or something that you really risked your life to—to achieve? So that was—that was the beginning of The Spy Coast. What happens to CIA retirees—especially women—who are now invisible? But that makes them the best spies of all.Jess LaheyYeah, and we have—we did this really cool thing, this really fun thing for us on the Hashtag AmWriting Podcast. It's like a supporter-only thing, where we call First Pages, where very brave authors—very brave writers—submit their first page to us, and we talk about it and decide whether or not we'd want to turn the page. And you have an incredible skill on your first pages. You're very, very good at first pages. And I was thinking about The Summer Guests, that you had this wonderful line that I'm going to read now:Purity, Maine, 1972. On the last day of his life, Purity police officer Randy Pelletier ordered a blueberry muffin and a cup of coffee at the Marigold Café,Which immediately reminded me of my very, very favorite line from all of literature—my very favorite first line—which is Irving's first line from A Prayer for Owen Meany, in which he ruins the story for you right there in the first line:I am doomed to remember a boy with a wrecked voice—not because of his voice, or because he was the smallest person I ever knew, or even because he was the instrument of my mother's death, but because he is the reason I believe in God.There is this incredible power to first lines. And I'm sort of wondering where—how first lines happen for you. Do they happen first? Do they happen last? Do they happen along the way?Tess GerritsenFirst lines usually happen last. I—it's—I will write the whole book, and I'll think, something's missing in that first chapter. How do I open this up? And, you know, there are things that make lines immediately hypnotic, and one of those things is an inherent contradiction—something that makes you think, wait, okay, you start off this way, but then all of a sudden, the meaning of that line switches. So, yeah, it starts off with, you know, this guy's going to die. But on that last day of his life, he does something very ordinary. He just orders coffee at the local café. So I think it's that contradiction that makes us want to read more. It's also a way to end chapters. I think that—that if you leave your reader with a sense of unease—something is about to go wrong, but they don't know what it is yet—or leave them with an unanswered question, or leave them with, as I said, a contradiction—that is what's page-turning. I think that a lot of thriller writers in particular mistake action for—for being—for being interesting. A car chase on the page is really very boring. But what's interesting is something that—you could feel that tension building, but you don't know why.Sarina BowenI have joked sometimes that when I get stuck on a plot, sometimes I will talk at my husband and—and say, “you know, I'm stuck here.” And he always says, “And then a giant squid attacked.” And it—of course I don't write books that take place where this is possible, so—but it never fails to remind me that, like, external action can sometimes be just, you know, totally pointless. And that if you're stuck, it's because one of your dominoes isn't leaning, you know, in the right spot. So...Tess GerritsenYeah, it's—it's not as much fun seeing that domino fall as seeing it go slowly tilting over. You know, I really learned this when I was watching a James Bond movie. And it starts off—you know, the usual James Bonds have their cold open to those action and chasing and death-defying acts. I found that—I find that really, in that movie anyway—I was like, Ho hum. Can we get to the story? And I found the time when I was leaning forward in my theater seat, watching every moment, was really a very quiet conversation aboard a train between him and this woman who was going to become his lover. That was fascinating to me. So I think that that transfers to book writing as well. Action is boring.Jess LaheyYou and Sarina do something that I feel, as a writer; I would probably not be very good at, which is creating that unease. I—Sarina in particular does this thing... I've read every one of Sarina's books, as a good friend is supposed to do. And I text her, and I say, Why don't they just talk about it and just deal? Get it out in the open! And she's like, you know, we just got to make these people uncomfortable. And you both have this incredible talent for helping—keeping the reader, uh, along with you, simply because there is this sense of unease. We're slightly off-kilter the whole time. And yet in me, as a people pleaser, that makes me very uncomfortable. I want people to be happy with each other. So how do you—if you get to a place where you feel like maybe things aren't off-kilter enough, or things aren't off-balance enough—how do you introduce a little bit of unease into your—into your story?Tess GerritsenWell, I think it comes down to very small points of conflict—little bits of tension. Like, we call it micro-tension. And I think those occur in everyday life all the time. For instance, you know, things that happen that really don't have any big consequence, but are still irritating. We will stew about those for—for a while. And, you know, I used to write romance as well, so I understand entirely what Sarina is doing, because romance is really about courtship and conflict. And it's the conflict that makes us keep reading. We just—we know this is the courtship. So there's always that sense of it's not quite there, because once the characters are happy, the story is over, right?Sarina BowenYeah.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Sarina BowenAlso, writing the ends of romance novels is the least interesting part. Like, what...? Once the conflict is resolved, like, I cannot wait to get out of there.Tess GerritsenRight, exactly. You know, I—I pay attention to my feelings when I'm reading a book, and I've noticed that the books that I remember are not the books with happy endings, because happiness is so fleeting. You know, you can be happy one second, and then something terrible will happen. You'll be unhappy. What lasts for us is sadness, or the sense of bittersweet. So when I read a book that ends with a bittersweet ending—such as, you know, Larry McMurtry Lonesome Dove—I ended up crying at the end of that book, and I have never forgotten that ending. Now, if everybody had been happy and there had been nobody to drag all those miles at the end, I would have forgotten that book very quickly. So I think—I try—I always try to leave the end of the book either bittersweet—I mean, you want to resolve all the major plot points—but also leave that sense of unease, because people remember that. And it also helps you, if you have a sequel.Sarina BowenThat's so interesting you've just brought up a couple of really interesting points, because there is a thriller—I actually write suspense now—and one of the books that so captured my attention about five years ago was killing it on the charts. And I thought it was actually a terrible book, but it nailed the bittersweet ending. Like, the premise was solid, and then the bittersweet ending was perfect, and the everything between the first chapter and the last chapter was a hot mess, but—but—um, that ending really stuck with me. And I remember carrying it around with me, like, Wow, they really nailed that ending. You know, and—and maybe that has, like, legs in terms of, like, talking about it. And, you know, if it—if—if it's irritating enough, like, the tension is still there—enough to, like, make people talk about it—it could actually affect the performance of that book. But also, um, one thing that I really love about this series—you have—what is the series title for the...?Tess GerritsenMartini—The Martini Club.Sarina BowenThe Martini Club, right? So The Martini Club is two books now. I inhaled the first one last summer, and I inhaled the second one this summer. And The Martini Club refers to this group of friends—these retired spies. And of course, there are two completely different mysteries in book one and book two. And I noticed a couple of things about the difference between those mysteries that was really fun. So in the first case—or in one of the two cases, let's see—in one of them, the thing that happens in their town is actually, like, related to them. And in the other one, it's kind of not. So to me, that felt like a boundary expansion of your world and your system. But also, I just love the way you leaned into the relationship of these people and their town in such a way. And how did you know to do that? Like, how—what does your toolbox say about how to get that expansiveness in your character set? Like, you know, to—to find all the limits of it?Tess GerritsenThat—you know, so much is like—it's like asking a pole-vaulter how they do it. They just—they have just—I guess its muscle memory. You don't really know how you're doing it, but what I did know was—with age, and because I love these characters so much—it really became about them and about what is going to deepen their friendship? What kind of a challenge is going to make them lean into each other—lean on each other? That's really what I was writing about, I think, was this circle of friends, and—and what you will do, how much you will sacrifice, to make sure your friends are safe. No, you're right—the second book is much more of a classic mystery. Yeah—a girl disappears. I mean, there was—there were—there were CIA undertones in that, because that becomes an important part of the book. But I think that what people are—when people say they love this book—they really talk about the characters and that friendship. And we all want friends like this, where we can go and—and—and have martinis together, and then if we—one of us needs to—we'll go help them bury a body.Multiple Speakers(All laughing)Tess GerritsenThat's—they all have shovels, and they're willing to do it. That's the kind of friendship—friends—we want.Jess LaheyWell, and that's funny you mention that—I had an entire question—it wasn't even a question, it was a statement—in here about friendships and being grateful to you for the reminder about the importance of relationships. And this entire podcast was born out of the fact that we were talking writing all the time, and we just wanted an official way to sit down once a week and actually talk about the work. And your work is suffused with just these incredible relationships—whether that's the Rizzoli and Isles—you know, in your first—in the one of your other series—and I'm just—I'm very grateful for that, because we—especially—I think I re—I really crave books about female relationships, especially about older female relationships. And I have been loving your books, and I've—like, as I may have mentioned to you in my initial email—I had—I'm so sorry—never read your books before. And I admitted in the introduction that there are lots of very, very famous authors whose books I have never read. And it's always so exciting to me to dive into someone's series and realize, oh, this person really touches on themes that mean a lot to me, and I can already tell that I'm going to be enjoying a lot of their books to come forward. So thank you for all of the great descriptions of relationships and how we do rely on each other for various aspects of just how we get through all of this stuff.Tess GerritsenYeah—get through life. But you know what's funny about it is that it didn't start that way. For instance, let's go back to Rizzoli and Isles. The very first time they both appear in a book is in The Apprentice. And they don't start off being friends. They start off being—they're so different. As the TV producer once said, “you've really written about Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock.” That's okay—they are—in the books. They are not natural friends. But like real-life friendships, sometimes—just kind of develop slowly, and—and they have their ups and downs. So there are times when—when Jane and Maura are barely speaking to each other because of conflicts they have. But by the time book twelve comes around—or maybe book seven comes around—you know that they would risk their lives for each other. So I think that if you're writing a series like Rizzoli and Isles, or like The Martini Club, it really helps to develop the friendship on the fly and see how they react to certain stresses. The next book, which I just turned in, called The Shadow Friends—it even put—pushes them even further, and it really—it really strains a marriage, because it's—it's more about Ingrid, and an old lover comes back into her life. She used to—they were both spies—and he is, like, hot, hot, hot—Antonio Banderas kind of guy. And here's Ingrid, married to Lloyd, you know, who's just a sweet analyst who cooks dinner for her every night. And I—when I was coming up with that story, I thought, I want to write a book about their marriage. So it wasn't—the plot wasn't about, oh, you know, international assassinations, even though that does occur in the book. It's really about the story of a marriage.Jess LaheyAnd it gives you, it gives you added unease. You know, if you have your two characters not speaking to each other, and you know your readers love those characters and crave those characters to be getting along at some point, then that's just another reason that we're following along. I was just thinking about, uh, Michael Connelly, uh, book the other day, because I really, really like the series he did with Renée Ballard and her relationship with the Bosch character, and how that series is totally about crime, but yet it's also very much about the relationship. And I think I follow—I continue to read those because of the relationship between those two human beings, and less so because of the murder mystery sort of stuff.Tess GerritsenI think it really becomes important if you're dealing also with Hollywood television series. I still remember what the producer first said when he called me up about Rizzoli and Isles. He said, "I love your girls, and I think they belong on TV.” He didn't say, I love your plots. He didn't say, I love your mysteries, you know, all your intricate ups and downs. It was really about the girls. So if you hope to sell to a television series, really, it's about characters again.Jess LaheyAbsolutely.Sarina BowenI was going to ask about longevity, because you have so many books, and you're so obviously still invigorated by the process, or there wouldn't be a book three that you just turned in. So how have you been able to avoid just being sick to death of—of writing suspense novel after suspense novel?Tess GerritsenI refused. That's what it is. You know, I—I don't—I guess I could say that I have a little bit of ADHD when it comes to—to the books I write. I cannot—after 13 books of Rizzoli and Isles, I just had a different idea. And it takes—it takes a certain amount of backbone to say no to your publisher, to your editor, to people who are going, well, when's the next one in this series coming out? And to be able to say, I need a break. I need to do something completely different. So over—how many years I've been a writer—almost 40 now—I've written science fiction and historicals and a ghost story and romantic suspense and spy novels and medical thrillers and crime novels. I've been all over the place, but each one of those books that took me out of what I was expected to do was so invigorating. It was a book that I needed to write. As an example, I wrote a book called Playing with Fire. Nobody wanted that book. Nobody expected that book. It was a historical about World War II, and about music—about the power of music—and having to do with the death camps. I remember my publisher going, "What are you doing?" And, you know, it's—it's true—they're—they—they are marketers, and they understood that that book would not sell as well, and it didn't. But it still remains one of my favorite books. And when you want to write a book, you need to write that book. That's all—even—even if nobody wants it.Jess LaheyI actually was—I'm so pleased that this came up, because that was actually going to be my question, because both you and Sarina have done this—done, you know, 90 degrees—whether it's out of, you know, one genre into another—and that, to me, requires an enormous amount of courage. Because you know you have people expecting things from you. And you in particular, Tess, have people saying, "No, I want the next one. I love this relationship. I want the next one." And—and dealing—you're not just dealing with the disappointment of whether it's an agent or an editor, but the disappointment of fans. And that's a pressure as well. So when I used to do journalism, I remember a question I asked of another journalist was, "How do you continue to write without fear of the comment section?" And essentially, for us, that's our—you know, those are our readers. So how do you find that thing within yourself to say, no, this really is the thing that I need to be writing now?Tess GerritsenWell, that is a really—it's a really tough decision to buck the trend or buck what everybody's expecting, because there's a thing in publishing called the death spiral. And if your book does not sell well, they will print fewer copies for the next one. And then that won't sell well. So you start—your career starts to go down the drain. And that is a danger every time you step out of your tried and true series and do something out of—you know, completely out of the ordinary. I think the reason I did it was that I really didn't give a damn. It was—it was like, Okay, maybe this will kill my career, but I've got to write this book. And it was always with the idea that if my publisher did not want that, I would just self-publish. I would just, you know, find another way to get it out there. And I—I was warned, rightly so, that your sales will not be good for this book, and that will—it will hurt the next contract. And I understood that. But it was the only way I could keep my career going. Once you get bored, and you're—you're trapped in a drawer, I think it shows up in your writing.Jess LaheyI had this very conversation with my agent. The—my first book did well. And so then, you know, the expectation is, I'll write like part two of that, or I'll write something for that exact same audience again. And when I told my agent—I said, "You know, this book on substance use prevention and kids—I—it's—I have to write it. And I'm going to write it even, you know, if I have to go out there and sell it out of the trunk of my car." And she said, "Okay, then I guess we're doing this." And yes...Tess Gerritsen(Laughing) They had their best wishes at heart.Jess LaheyAnd honestly, I love—I loved my book that did well. But The Addiction Inoculation is the book I'm most proud of. And, you know, that's—yeah, that's been very important to me.Tess GerritsenI often hear from writers that the book that sold the fewest copies was one that was—were their favorites. Those are the ones that they took a risk on, that they—I mean, they put their heart and soul into it. And maybe those hurt their careers, but those are the ones that we end up being proud of.Jess LaheyI like to remind Sarina of that, because I do remember we text each other constantly. We have a little group, the three of us, a little group text all day long. And there was—I remember when she first wrote a male-male romance, she was scared. She was really scared that this was going to be too different for her readers. And it ended up being, I think, my favorite book that she's ever written, and also a very important book for her in terms of her career development and growth, and what she loves about the work that she does. And so I like to remind her every once in a while, remember when you said that really scared you and you weren't sure how your readers were going to handle it?Sarina BowenRight? Well, I also did that in the middle of a series, and I went looking for confirmation that that is a thing that people did sometimes, and it was not findable. You know, that was...Jess LaheyWhat? Change things up in terms of—change things up in the middle of a series?Sarina BowenIn the middle of a series. And anyway, that book still sells.Tess GerritsenThat is a great act of courage, but it's also an act of confidence in yourself as a writer. There are ways to do it. I think some writers will just adopt a different pen name for something that's way out there.Jess LaheyIt's funny you should say... it's funny you should say that.Sarina BowenWell, no, and I never have done that, but, um—but anyway, yeah, that's hard. I, uh...Jess LaheyYeah.Sarina BowenIt's hard to know. Sometimes...Jess LaheyWe entertain it all the time. We do talk about that as an option all the time. Shouldn't we just pick up and do something completely different? One of the things that I also—I mentioned at the top of the podcast about, you know, you went off—not only have you done lots of different things in terms of your writing—but you went off and you did an entire documentary about pigs. I have—I have to ask you where on earth that came from and why. And it is a total delight, as I mentioned, and I have already recommended it to two people that I know also love the topic. But, you know, to go off—and especially when you usually, as some of us have experienced—our agents saying, so when am I going to see more pages? or when am I going to see the next book? And you say, I'm really sorry, but I have to go off and film this documentary about pigs.Tess GerritsenYes. Well, you know, I was an anthropology major in college, and I've always been interested in the pig taboo. You know, back then, everybody just assumed it was because, yeah, it was disease or they're dirty animals—that's why they're forbidden food. It never quite convinced me, because I'm Chinese-American. Asia—you know, Asia loves pork. Why aren't they worried about all that? So I was in Istanbul for a book tour once, and I remember I really wanted bacon, and, you know, I couldn't get bacon. And then I thought, okay, I really need to find out why pork is forbidden. This is a—this is a cultural and historical mystery that never made sense to me. The explanations just never made sense to me. It cannot be trichinosis. So I told my son that—my son is—he does—he's a filmmaker as well. And he just said, "Well, let's do it. Let's—we will pose it as a mystery," because it is a mystery. So it took us probably two years to go and—you know, we interviewed anthropologists and pet pig owners and archaeologists, actually, just to find out, what do they say? What is the answer to this? And to us, the answer really just came down to this cultural desire for every—every tribe—to define us versus them. You know, they eat pigs. They're not us, so therefore they're the enemy. And it was fascinating because we—we ended up finding out more about pigs than I was expecting, and also finding out that people who have pet pigs can sometimes be a little unusual.Jess LaheyAnd the people who purchase the clothes for the pigs are also crazy.Tess GerritsenYes. Sew outfits for their pigs and sleep with their pigs. And there was—there was one woman who had—she slept on the second floor of her house, so she had an elevator for her pig who couldn't make it up the stairs, and, you know, ramps to get up onto the bed because they've gotten so fat—they've been overfed. But it was—for me, at the heart of it was a mystery.Jess LaheyAs a nonfiction author whose whole entire reason for being is, "I don't know—let's find out," I think that's just the most delightful thing. And I loved your framing as, "I don't know, we have this question, let's go out there and just ask people about it and find the experts." And that's—oh, I could just live on that stuff. So...Tess GerritsenSo could I. You know, research is so enticing. It's enticing. It is—it can get you into trouble because you never write your book. Some of us just love to do the research.Jess LaheySarina actually has taken skating lessons, done glass blowing—what else have you done? Yoga classes and all—all kinds of things in the pursuit of knowledge for her characters. And I think that's a delight.Sarina BowenYes. If you can sign up for a class as part of your research, like, that is just the best day. Like, you know, oh, I must take these ice skating lessons twice a day for five months, because—yeah—or twice a week, but still.Tess GerritsenYou must be a good ice skater then.Sarina BowenI'm getting better.Tess GerritsenSo you never gave them up, I see.Jess LaheyWell, it's fun because she usually writes about hockey, but she has a figure skater coming up in this book that's coming out this fall. And she's like, "Well, I guess I'm just going to have to learn how to figure skate."Tess GerritsenYeah.Sarina BowenI also—one time I went to see Rebecca Skloot speak about her big nonfiction The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.Tess GerritsenOh, okay.Sarina BowenAnd she said that all her best ideas had come from moments in her life when she went, "Wait, what?!"Tess GerritsenYes. Yep.Sarina BowenIncluding for The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks. Like, she learned about the cells in high school—she was in high school biology class—and the teacher said, like, "This woman died in the '60s, but we're still using her cells," and she said, "Wait, what?!" And that's—that's what you made me think of with the pigs. Like, I think...Jess LaheyWell, and also your folder of ideas. I mean, I immediately texted Sarina after listening to a podcast where I heard an ad, and the ad made me go, "Oh that could be creepy." And then I'm like, "Okay, this is—this is a plot. This is going in the folder somewhere." And so you have to just think about how those things could unfold over time. And I love the idea of—and even in journalism—there are articles that I've written where I said, this just isn't their time. And then, like, five years later, I'll hear something out there, and I'm like, okay, finally, it's the time for this thing. And there's a reason you put that article in your idea—in your paper—manila folder of ideas.Tess GerritsenWell, I think writers are—we have to be curious. We have to be engaged in what's going on around us, because the ideas are everywhere. And I have this—I like to say I have a formula. It's called "two plus two equals five." And what that means is, sometimes you'll have a—you'll have a piece of information that, you know, there's a book here, but you haven't figured out what to do with it. And you wait for another piece of information from some completely different source, and you put them together, and they end up being like nuclear fusion—bigger than the…Sarina BowenYes!Jess LaheyYes!Tess GerritsenSome of the parts.Sarina BowenMost every book I've ever written works like that. Like, I have one idea that I drag around for, like, five years, and then I have this other idea, and one day I'm like, oh, those two things go together.Tess GerritsenYep.Jess LaheyYeah, absolutely. I think Stephen King mentioned that about Carrie. I think it was like, telekinesis, and that usually starts about the time of menstruation, and it was like, boom, there was Carrie. You know, those two things came together. I love that so much. So you mentioned that you have just handed in your next book, and we don't—we do not, as a rule, ask about what's next for an author, because I find that to be an incredibly intimidating and horrifying question to be asked. But I would love to hear; you know, is this—is this series one that you hope to continue working on? The main series, mainly because we have quite fallen in love with your little town in Maine—in Purity, Maine. Fantastic name for your town, by the way. It's really lovely. It creates such a nice dichotomy for these people who have seen and heard things during their careers that maybe are quite dark, and then they retire to a place called Purity. Is this a place where we can hopefully spend a little bit of time?Tess GerritsenWell, I am thinking about book number four now. I have an idea. You know, it always starts with—it starts with an idea and doodling around and trying to figure out what—you know, you start with this horrible situation, and then you have to explain it. So that's where I am now. I have this horrible situation, I have to explain it. So, yeah, I'm thinking about book four. I don't know how—you never know how long a series is going to go. It's a little tough because I have my characters who are internationally based—I mean, they've been around the world—but then I can't leave behind my local cop who is also a part of this group as well. So I have to keep an eye out on Maine being the center of most of the action.Sarina BowenRight, because how many international plots can you give Purity, Maine?Tess GerritsenThat's right, exactly. Well, luckily…Jess LaheyLook, Murder, She Wrote—how many things happened to that woman in that small town?Tess GerritsenExactly, exactly. Well, luckily, because I have so many CIA retirees up here, the international world comes to us. Like the next book, The Shadow Friends, is about a global security conference where one of the speakers gets murdered. And it turns out we have a global security conference right here in our town that was started by CIA 40 years ago. So I'm just—I'm just piggybacking on reality here. And—not that the spies up here think that's very amusing.Sarina BowenThat is fantastic, because, you know, the essential problem of writing a suspense novel is that you have to ground it in a reality that everyone is super familiar with, and you have to bring in this explosive bit of action that is unlikely to happen near any of us. And those two things have to fit together correctly. So by, um, by putting your retired spies in this tiny town, you have sort of, like, gifted yourself with that, you know, precise problem solver.Tess GerritsenYeah, reminding us.Sarina BowenYeah.Tess GerritsenBut there's only so far I can take that. I'm not sure what the limits... I think book four is going to take them all overseas, because my local cop, Jo, she's never been out of the country—except for Canada—and it's time for her dad to drag her over to Italy and say, "Your dead mom wanted to come to Italy, so I'm taking you." And, of course, things go wrong in Italy for Jo.Jess LaheyOf course, of course. Well, we're going to keep just banging on about how much we love these books. I think we've already mentioned it in three podcast episodes so far in our “What have you been reading lately that you've really loved?” So we're—we're big fans. And thank you so much for sitting down to talk with us and to—you know, one of the whole points of our podcast is to flatten the learning curve for other authors, so we hope that that's done a little bit of that for our listeners. And again, thank you so much. Where can people find you and your work if they want to learn a little bit more about Tess Gerritsen—her work?Tess GerritsenYou can go to TessGerritsen.com, and I try to post as much information there as I can. But I'm also at Bluesky, @TessGerritsen, and what is now called “X”—a legacy person on X—@TessGerritsen, yes.Jess LaheyThank you so, so much again. And for everyone out there listening, keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game.The Hashtag AmWriting Podcast is produced by Andrew Perella. Our intro music—aptly titled Unemployed Monday—was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output, because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

On this episode of The Tiger Mom Podcast, Jiaoying Summers welcomes the brilliant and trailblazing Katie Soo — powerhouse executive, storyteller, and advocate for representation in media. Named to Variety's Power of Women list and a driving force behind some of the biggest brands in entertainment and tech, Katie brings her sharp insights and fearless energy to the conversation. With her trademark mix of warmth and wisdom, Katie and Jiaoying dive into what it means to lead with purpose, the challenges and triumphs of breaking barriers as an Asian woman, and how to carve your own path while lifting others along the way.#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #KatieSooAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

The FBI wrongly accused Chinese-American scientist Xiaoxing Xi of being a spy.Order Sharyl's new bestselling book: “Follow the $cience.” Subscribe to my two podcasts: “The Sharyl Attkisson Podcast” and “Full Measure After Hours.” Leave a review, subscribe and share with your friends! Support independent journalism by visiting the new Sharyl Attkisson store.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Send us a textHi, and welcome to this episode of The Bookshop Podcast!Step into the vibrant literary heart of Mexico with the San Miguel Writers Conference, where cultural exchange and creative inspiration meet in one of the world's most beautiful cities. Susan Page, founder and president, alongside executive director Jodi Pincus, unveil the magic behind this extraordinary gathering that transforms writers and readers alike.This unique tricultural and bilingual event bridges the literary communities of Canada, the United States, and Mexico, creating rich connections across borders. Set against the backdrop of San Miguel de Allende—consistently voted the world's #1 city by Conde Nast Traveler—participants immerse themselves in perfectly preserved 18th-century Spanish colonial architecture while engaging with world-class authors and honing their craft.The 2026 conference boasts an exceptional lineup of global voices: Ethiopian-American physician-author Abraham Verghese, Canadian novelist Emily St. John Mandel, Nigerian literary star Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, Indigenous Mexican intellectual Yesnaya Elena Aguilar-Hill, Argentinian author Andrés Neuman, and Chinese-American writer R.F. Kuang. Beyond the keynotes, the conference offers 80 workshops across multiple genres, opportunities to pitch literary agents, discussion circles on timely topics like AI and cultural appropriation, and a dedicated "Pleasures of Reading" track for literary enthusiasts.What truly distinguishes this gathering is its holistic approach to the literary experience—combining rigorous craft development with cultural immersion and community building. Workshops unfold in beautiful gardens, open mics create space for emerging voices, and wellness activities provide balance. Meanwhile, the conference maintains deep connections to local communities through teen writing programs and literary outreach to underserved rural areas.Whether you're a serious writer seeking to refine your craft, a reader hungry for literary inspiration, or someone drawn to the magical energy of San Miguel, the conference offers flexible registration options to create your perfect experience. Mark your calendar for February 11-15, 2026, and join a global community of literary minds in one of the world's most enchanting destinations.San Miguel Writers' ConferenceSupport the showThe Bookshop PodcastMandy Jackson-BeverlySocial Media Links

Sue Ko Lee (1910-1996) was a labor organizer who participated in one of the longest strikes in the history of San Francisco’s Chinatown. She and other garment workers joined forces with a white-led union to win better pay and shorter hours — and a huge victory for the Chinese American workforce. For Further Reading: Unbound Voices by Judy Yung - University of California Press Sue Ko Lee (U.S. National Park Service) Sue Ko Lee - National Union of Healthcare Workers Sue Ko Lee and the National Dollar Stores Strike of 1938 | Library Exhibitions This month, we’re bringing back some of our favorite Womanica episodes you might have missed! We’ll be talking about Pink Collar Workers: women who revolutionized jobs that have traditionally been called "women's work." Through their lives, they created a more just and humane world for us today. History classes can get a bad rap, and sometimes for good reason. When we were students, we couldn’t help wondering... where were all the ladies at? Why were so many incredible stories missing from the typical curriculum? Enter, Womanica. On this Wonder Media Network podcast we explore the lives of inspiring women in history you may not know about, but definitely should. Every weekday, listeners explore the trials, tragedies, and triumphs of groundbreaking women throughout history who have dramatically shaped the world around us. In each 5 minute episode, we’ll dive into the story behind one woman listeners may or may not know–but definitely should. These diverse women from across space and time are grouped into easily accessible and engaging monthly themes like Educators, Villains, Indigenous Storytellers, Activists, and many more. Womanica is hosted by WMN co-founder and award-winning journalist Jenny Kaplan. The bite-sized episodes pack painstakingly researched content into fun, entertaining, and addictive daily adventures. Womanica was created by Liz Kaplan and Jenny Kaplan, executive produced by Jenny Kaplan, and produced by Grace Lynch, Maddy Foley, Brittany Martinez, Edie Allard, Carmen Borca-Carrillo, Taylor Williamson, Sara Schleede, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Luci Jones, Abbey Delk, Adrien Behn, Alyia Yates, Vanessa Handy, Melia Agudelo, and Joia Putnoi. Special thanks to Shira Atkins. Follow Wonder Media Network: Website Instagram Twitter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, Kaila Yu, author of the memoir Fetishized joins us to explore how Asian women are portrayed in the media. We discuss the impact of books like Memoirs of a Geisha and raunch culture from the 2000s, and talk about how much of the media we consume is internalized as women. We chat about how to ground ourselves in self-love instead of seeking validation externally.Find Kaila on Instagram @kailayu or on her website kailayu.com. Her book, Fetishized: A Reckoning with Yellow Fever, Feminism, and Beauty will be out in all stores on August 19th!Support the showFollow us on social media @eatyourcrustpod

Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter Hyphenly; it's our no-fluff love letter with hot takes, heartfelt stories, and all the feels of living in between cultures. Come for the nuance, stay for the vibes! Link below https://hyphenly.beehiiv.com Launching this September from Pushkin Industries, a new investigative podcast hosted by journalist Lidia Jean Kott uncovers the true story of Tina Wong, a Chinese American mother in 1980s Manhattan who was pulled into a billion-dollar heroin trafficking scheme. In this exclusive preview, Lidia joins host Saadia Khan to discuss the podcast's backstory, the complex moral terrain of friendship, and her personal connection-her boyfriend's mother was the lead federal prosecutor on the case. The episode explores how systems of power, race, immigration, and economic survival collided in ways that still echo today. It's a layered portrait of immigrant resilience, impossible decisions, and the untold legacy of Chinatown's exclusion. Join us as we create new intellectual engagement for our audience. You can find more information at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://immigrantlypod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Please share the love and leave us a review on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to help more people find us!  You can connect with Saadia on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@swkkhan Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠saadia@immigrantlypod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Host & Producer: Saadia Khan I Content Writer: Saadia Khan I Editorial review: Shei Yu I Sound Designer & Editor: Lou Raskin I Immigrantly Theme Music: Simon Hutchinson | Other Music: Epidemic Sound Immigrantly podcast is an Immigrantly Media Production. For advertising inquiries, contact us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@immigrantlypod.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to our Apple podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ channel ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for insightful podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes content. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of The Tiger Mom Podcast, Jiaoying Summers welcomes the razor-sharp and irresistibly charming Jay Jurden — stand-up comedian, writer, and rising star you've seen on The Tonight Show, HBO, and pretty much every smart comedy stage that matters.Jay brings his signature mix of Southern charm and biting wit as he and Jiaoying dive into everything from growing up Black and queer in the South to navigating New York's comedy scene with style and side-eye.#jiaoyingsummers #comedy #JayJurdenAbout Jiaoying Summers:Jiaoying Summers is a Chinese-American stand-up comedian, actress, and social media influencer known for her bold humor, sharp wit, and unique perspectives on life, culture, and identity. A proud mother and successful performer, Jiaoying's journey from her beginnings in China to becoming a comedy sensation in the U.S. is nothing short of inspiring. She uses herplatform to tackle topics like cultural differences, family, and self-empowerment, always leaving audiences laughing and thinking.Stay Connected With Jiaoying:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jiaoyingsummers Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jiaoyingsummers/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jiaoyingsummersX: https://x.com/jiaoyingsummersWebsite: https://summerscomedy.comCopyright Notice:This video and my YouTube channel contain dialog, music, and images that are property of Jiaoying Summers. You are authorized to share the video link and channel, and embed this video in your website or others as long as a link back to my YouTube channel is provided.Support the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFansSupport the showFollow Jiaoying Summers Social media & get tickets for Tiger Milf Tour!Facebook | Youtube | TikTok | Twitter | Instagram | Merch | Tour | Patreon | OnlyFans

In this special episode, hear the story of Anna May Wong, cinema's first Chinese-American superstar, who turned disillusionment into a determination to create change... This episode is one of countless Hollywood stories available now by signing up at Patreon Signing up only takes a moment, and you'll get instant access to an entire world of storytelling! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices