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The RISE-UP project is a transformative initiative to revolutionize rehabilitation services for underserved populations, focusing on racial and ethnic minorities. Dr. Mari Guillermo and Dr. Mark Tucker, Project Directors at San Diego State University's Interwork Institute, highlight how this project seeks to drive systemic change through state agency partnerships and tools like QA Advisor Plus. RISE-UP strives to reshape vocational rehabilitation and improve employment outcomes nationwide by fostering equity, inclusion, and access.   Listen Here   Full Transcript:   {Music} Mark: QA Advisor Plus, a tool that agencies can use to check their RSA 911 data for errors and to help facilitate or expedite analysis of their own data.   Mari: How do we close this gap? Where are people not being served, what populations specifically are not being served? And the emphasis is on systems change because we can't improve these outcomes without really looking at what needs to change within that system.   Mark: So we hope that when you see information about the survey coming out, that you take a few minutes to fill it out and can provide us with information both about what they see as needs related to serving underserved populations. But also, we're asking folks to identify any promising practices that they're aware of with respect to providing effective services to underserved populations.   Intro Voice: Manager Minute brought to you by the VRTAC for Quality Management, Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host Carol Pankow.   Carol: Well, welcome to the manager minute, Dr. Mari Guillermo and Dr. Mark Tucker, are co-project directors with San Diego State University Interwork Institute. And they are joining me in the studio today. So how are things going in San Diego, Mari?   Mari: Uh, well, it's warming up. It's going to be in the 90s by tomorrow, but it's also the start of the semester at San Diego State University. We're in our second week, so things are still trying to settle down, but it's been quite a good busy two weeks for sure.   Carol: Oh, good for you. Well, I was in San Diego back in June and I'm going, okay, why isn't it warm here now? It was warmer in Minnesota than it was in San Diego. It was so crazy with that kind of, I don't know, marine layer or whatever hangs out. Yeah. How about you, Mark? How are things going for you?   Mark: Going well, yeah, That marine layer in June we that's like a typical thing June Gloom we call it. And then we pay the price in September. September is usually warm for us, but we'll get back to our normal San Diego weather in October.   Carol: Nice. I do love your fair city though. It is really awesome. Well, I thought, and I'm so glad I could get you two because I've been trying to snag you. I think I've been talking to you since last December, but now is finally the sweet spot. I thought it was super timely that we talk about the project given you're at the end of year one. October is also National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and I really think the project that you guys are embarking on could have a significant impact on the employment arena for underserved populations. As a little side note, we're super happy as part of the George Washington University team to be a partner on this project. So I want to give our listeners just a little bit of background. Over a year ago, RSA competed a discretionary grant, and the grant was specifically related to section 21 of the Rehab Act, as amended by WIOA, which requires RSA to reserve 1% of the funds appropriated each year for programs under titles three, title six, and seven to provide grant, contract or cooperative agreement awards to minority entities and Indian tribes to carry out activities under the Rehab Act. Secondly, minority entities and Indian tribes to conduct research training to or a related activity to improve services provided under the act, especially services provided to individuals from minority backgrounds. Or thirdly, state or public or private non-profit agencies or organizations to provide outreach and technical assistance to minority entities and American Indian tribes to promote their participation in activities under the Rehab Act. I learned a whole bunch. I know for our listeners, you're getting a whole history lesson, but I thought this was cool. And so under this priority, the department provides funding for a cooperative agreement for a minority entity or an Indian tribe to provide training and TA to a minimum range of 5 to 15 state VR agencies over a five year period of performance, so they are equipped to serve as role models for diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility in the workforce system by implementing policies, Practices and service delivery approaches designed to contribute to increasing competitive, integrated employment outcomes for individuals with disabilities from underserved populations. And the other cool part is that you also need to contribute via our research and really good practices that promote access, and this will be really of great benefit across the whole country. So I'm super excited. Let's dig in. So, Mari, typically our listeners like to know a little bit about our guests, your backgrounds. So can you tell a little bit about yourself and your background?   Mari: Yeah, I'm originally from Hawaii, born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii. I moved to San Diego in the late 80s to as a graduate student in the rehabilitation program at San Diego State University. So since moving to San Diego, I haven't moved very far from San Diego State University and our rehab counseling program. I'm currently faculty in our graduate program, but I've been with the Interwork Institute since its beginning, when it was started by doctors Fred McFarlane and Doctor Ian Champion, and just worked with some incredible number of leaders in our rehabilitation field. And upon graduating from the master's program, I started working with Doctor Bobby Atkins. And for those of you who few of you who are not familiar with Doctor Atkins, she is a leader. When we look at all diversity initiatives and in fact, when we look at section 21, that was started with her groundbreaking research looking at the involvement and participation of African Americans in vocational rehabilitation. But I worked with Doctor Atkins upon graduating from the program in the capacity building projects funded by this same pool of money. And Doctor Atkins was the national director for the Rehabilitation Cultural Diversity Initiative, which then morphed over into the Rehabilitation Capacity Building Project. So I worked with her from the 90s. All the way up to like 2015 I think is when the project ended. So a lot of the work that we are doing in Rise Up really builds on the foundational work that we did with Doctor Atkins back in the 1990s. So it's an incredible honor.   Carol: I think that is very cool. You've come full circle. Oh my gosh, I love that. I had no idea. And for our listeners too, I just want to say a word about Doctor Fred McFarlane. Fred had passed away this summer. Fred has been a good friend to many, and many of our listeners have benefited from Fred's work with the NRLI and the Leadership Institute. Fred was the founding person developing that and really did such an amazing job touching so many VR professionals over his career. And his legacy definitely lives on. So I just I needed to say that because Fred is definitely missed. So, Marc, how about you? Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background.   Mark: Sure, I've got a Master of Science in rehabilitation counseling, and I'm a certified rehabilitation counselor. And in fact, you know, when I was applying to the graduate program in rehabilitation counseling, Fred interviewed me. Uh, that was a few years back. But that...   Carol: Yeah, 1 or 2.   Mark: Yeah, but he was there right at the start for me. And then kind of in the profession, I got my start in community based non-profit agencies and then from there joined the Rehabilitation Continuing Education program for region nine at Interwork and SDSU in the early 2000. And when I was there, was involved in all kinds of different technical assistance, training and research projects, while also kind of teaching in an adjunct capacity in the Rehabilitation counseling graduate program at SDSU. And then eventually the Rehabilitation Continuing Education programs transitioned into the Technical Assistance and Continuing Education centers. So I continued doing that same type of work with what were called the TACE centers, and then in 2014, joined the Rehabilitation Counseling Program faculty at SDSU full time. So that's sort of where I spend a lot of my time. But I still continue working with, you know, Interwork. The two are just so intricately joined. It's really difficult to be part of one without being part of the other. So I continue doing work at Interwork. One of the recent projects that Mari and I were both involved in a few years back was the California version of the Promise Projects. It was a 5 or 6 years of work with transition age youth who were recipients of Supplemental Security Income. Presently, I'm the coordinator of the Rehabilitation Counseling program at SDSU, and do that while maintaining connections to a variety of projects at Interwork.   Carol: Yeah, you're always wearing about 40 hats. I always think of you, Mark, as being the data guy though, too, because you love the data. I mean, everybody likes data, sort of but you love the data. I mean, you've done some really amazing things with our national data.   Mark: Thank you. I enjoy that. I appreciate being able to bring that to a lot of the projects that I'm involved in. Yeah, you're right. I think I find it fun maybe at times where other people are like, oh, we'll leave that to somebody else.   Carol: Yeah, absolutely. Oh my gosh. So why don't you guys tell us a little bit about your project? I know it's called Rise Up. Maybe you can tell our group like what's that stand for? Everybody's got their fun acronyms and what you're trying to accomplish.   Mari: The name really captures the overall vision for this project, and we have to give a shout out to Doctor Chaz Compton because after several failed acronyms, as we were writing the proposal, it was Chaz who came up with the name. And RISEUP stands for Rehabilitation Improvements in Services and Employment for Underserved Populations. And so that really captures what we're aiming to do, improving the services and in the process of improving services, improving the outcomes for underserved populations, in competitive integrated employment, in careers, in academic achievements and accomplishments now underserved populations. There's many ways we can look at that, but RSA has defined it for us and it concentrates on race and ethnicity. So it encompasses individuals who are black, Latino, indigenous, Native American persons, Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, and other persons of color. And so that is the specific focus for this grant and the population that we hope to impact ultimately with the work that we do with the state agencies. An important component of the project is the partnerships that we aim to build with ten state agencies. And that partnership is really important because while we think about this work is okay, we'll do training and technical assistance and all these different topics and how it intersects with these different populations based on evidence based practices and promising practices. But we can only do so much with training and technical assistance. We really have to look at, okay, how does this then translate into the work that goes on in the agency and not just in the agency? How does that look at the different levels within the agency? How a director would translate the training will look different than how a counselor or a technician would translate. We hope that it complements each other, but everyone has a different role in this process. And that's the other part of the project, is that we want to really look at the whole agency and all the different levels, and being able to provide that support to them where they need it. And really looking at how do we close this gap? Where are people not being served, what populations specifically are not being served within a state or a section of the state? And the emphasis is on systems change, because we can't improve these outcomes without really looking at what needs to change within that system. And there's different components that we're going to be incorporating into the project in our partnerships with the state agencies to look at what are the strengths and weaknesses within your agencies and what are the opportunities and gaps. And while there are big challenges that we all are aware of, there's also some great things going on and we want to highlight that, and we believe we'll be able to find that also within each of the state agencies.   Carol: I like a couple of things about what you just said. Well, I like it all, but a couple things stick out to me because holistically, we've seen it as we do TA and as people put in new initiatives in place. If you really get the whole agency going in the same direction, it is the rise or fall of that project for sure, because maybe the director is all in, but the mid-level managers and the counselors are like, I don't even understand what's going on. You're asking us to do this other thing? I don't get it. It seems weird. It's extra. I don't want to. I'm not going to. And then it doesn't happen. And so you really have to get everybody in sync. So I think you're smart to look at the whole organization and how everybody interprets the information and the training and how it actually gets implemented, because it isn't the director implementing it. It's the boots on the ground folks, it's your counselor. You need your line folks engaged and involved and giving you feedback and understanding what's happening. So that I think that is brilliant. Secondly, the data I think it's been interesting and I think Mark, it's some of the work that you've done over the last couple of years that I've known you as well, that as people start to get better about looking at their data, I think folks were looking really high level, not getting into the real intricacies and seeing the maybe the disparities that are happening in employment as you start looking at different races and ethnicities and who's getting what kind of work and what those outcomes are. And then we've seen states be completely shocked, like we didn't know we have a huge problem in this area. So I think getting at the data is super important. So I know, Mark, you and I had spoken to and you talked about this special wrinkle, and we're not using wrinkle in a bad way. It was in a good way. But you have a contractor called Encorpe and they're bringing something special to the project. Tell us a little bit about that.   Mark: Sure, and this relates a bit more to the data aspects of the project that we were just talking about. So Encorpe is a partner on the project. It's an organization that's headed by a couple of individuals with considerable experience with the public VR program, and they offer a tool that's known as QA Advisor Plus. So this is a tool that agencies can use to check their RSA 911 data for errors and to kind of help facilitate or expedite analysis of their own data. So users of the tool can run custom queries on their data. They can do things like track changes from quarter to quarter in things like population served on a variety of measures that might include things like applications or eligibility plan services, competitive integrated employment outcomes. Those are the kinds of things that are of interest, particularly to us as part of the Rise Up project and built into this project is that Rise Up will pay for one year of QA advisor Plus for participating agencies if they elect to use it. So agencies aren't required to use QA Advisor Plus if they don't want to. We have other strategies for helping and assisting with data analysis if they elect not to use it, but that's there as an offer. Rise Up will cover one year of the cost of that service. And I think one of the things that we're trying to get at is that through the project is to kind of help facilitate kind of long term attention and ongoing attention to things like population served and differences in services and outcomes, and to use that for more data informed planning, in our case, particularly around underserved populations. But agencies can certainly pretty easily extend that out to other groups of interest or other aspects of the rehabilitation process. That may not be maybe the central focus of what Rise Up is doing. And one of the things I sort of want to underscore here is that the project is intentionally designed to make considerable use of data that the state agencies are already gathering and reporting to RSA anyway. So if agencies are interested maybe in participating in Rise Up, but they're like, oh, I don't want there to be like an additional heavy burden on my data folks or my direct service folks. Our intention is that things will be fairly light with respect to those kinds of demands, because we'll take advantage of existing data that's already being gathered, and then we'll either use QA Advisor Plus or some of our own staff to assist with the analyses.   Carol: That's the beauty of this project really, I love that because it isn't like you're going, okay, state, we're knocking on your door to like, come and do this thing. And then you need to add like ten positions to pay attention to this. And I think it's great because I got a chance to look at that QA Advisor Plus. I saw the Encorpe guys at, CSAVR and they were like, hey, do you want to see a little demo of this? I was like, oh my gosh, I know as being a small blind agency director, we had one data person who's doing a million things, and so we were very surfacey. We got a little bit of stuff, but it was really hard. You have one person there doing a million things, and so that tool, I liked how it kind of rose up little things. It had that cool feature and it would just flag something for you to go like, hey, what's going on in this particular area? That would have been so lovely because I know a lot of our programs are small, so you might just have a half a position or one position that's working in this area. They don't have a whole team that's got all this really developed deep skill set in there. I just think having that added resource is amazing and could really take that level of sort of your data analytics to a whole different place than what you've been able to do so far and not, you know, not disparaging anybody's current skill level at it. It's just that people don't have time because there's so many demands. So when you can add like a feature to help with analyzing that data, it really is a great gift. So who are your agencies that are currently participating in the project?   Mari: So we've had initial conversations with a number of agencies, and certainly there were a number of agencies who had written letters of commitment when we wrote the grant, and that was really important. I don't want to mention the states yet until we have agreements in place out of respect for the agencies, our goal is to have by the end of year two, our goal is to have six agreements in place and by the end of year three, another four. So that will be a total of ten. But we've already started to have that conversation and people are at different starting points, right? And trying to map out how will this make sense and be of value to your agency and mapping that out in an individualized agreement with each of the states? So maybe we'll be invited for a second visit a year down the road, and I can at least give you a few more names more specific than what I'm giving you now, Carol.   Carol: No,  that's totally fine. Absolutely. I wasn't sure if, you know, like, are you needing some people? Because sometimes our listeners are like, hey, I want to be part of that project. I want to be in.   Mari: No, absolutely. And we're more than happy to talk to agencies throughout this whole process, because really the intent is we targeted ten agencies because we want to make sure that with the resources that we have available to us, that we use that in a way to really make that impact, to really try to get to that systems change because again, change doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen on a zero budget, right? But the hope is the lessons that are learned from the ten agencies in this work will be relevant to the rest of the country.   Carol: That's what I've loved about all of these different discretionary grants that RSA has put out, because I've been talking to people for the last year, and there is such cool things being done and demonstrated that now they're sharing out, you know, with other people and just that wonderful plethora of ideas. It makes it super fun. And everybody gets really excited planting the seeds of a different way of looking at things and doing things. So you are at the end of year one, and I love it when I talk to all our grantees that have gotten these grants, like, what have been your challenges this year?   Mark: I would say some of the challenges that we've encountered are things that it's not like they're not doable. It's just that they're the time and process demands are, you know, things have sort of taken longer, I guess I've started to come to kind of expect it. But still, when you're anxious to kind of get going and get rolling, these things sort of surface as challenges or frustrations. And so some of them are, I think, very predictable things like fleshing out the project staff, developing and executing subcontracts. I think Mari, she's nodding her head often. It's a little bit more complicated or involved than you think it might be. We've been working on things like establishing the technical infrastructure for the project, information management, information sharing systems, and we have a website that's in development that will ultimately use to share information coming out of this project, with many more than just the ten state agencies that we work intensively with. So there will be kind of dissemination of project learning far beyond those ten. We've been comprehensively surveying the literature related to underserved populations in VR, and it's not really just a challenge. It's just kind of a time consuming thing that we're kind of working our way through. We are going to be implementing a national survey of state VR staff around both challenges and opportunities related to serving underserved populations and the instrument development process is always a little time consuming, and you get a lot of feedback and you make revisions and there's several feedback and revision stages. So that's something that will be surfacing in the near future. That's just it's taken time, but we'll get there. Or going through things like the human subjects institutional review process, just to make sure that everybody's, you know, treated well and treated ethically. So those are all, you know, just things that have moved along or are moving along and we're squaring them away. But for those of us who are like, would like to just get going, all of that process stuff at the beginning is a little bit of a challenge. One thing that I think the team is wrestling with a little bit, and this is something that I think were a challenge that we will contend with going forward, and I've got confidence that we'll be able to address it, but it's just going to require some thought is that, you know, as Mari indicated earlier, the underserved populations of interest are defined by race and ethnicity. And we know already from looking at our data over a long period of time that our clients, like everybody else, often are multiracial, and they check a whole bunch of boxes So we're not going to necessarily be able to look at clients who are folks don't fall neatly into very convenient categories, right. So I think we're going to have to be very sensitive to that dynamic in the process and probably develop multiple ways of looking at race and ethnicity, so that we don't kind of miss any really important lessons that are coming out of this project.   Carol: Absolutely. And regarding that national survey, is there something our listeners can do to be of help in that or something they should be looking out for?   Mark: We're still in the process of piloting it like we want to get it right before it goes out, but we will be working with one of our project partners, which is CSAVR, to disseminate this national survey. It'll be an electronic survey, and it's really designed to go to VR staff at all levels. Like we talked about earlier, involvement of folks, feedback from folks at all levels in VR system really important. So VR staff at all levels, folks like SRC members will be disseminating it through CSAVR. And we would encourage everybody to, you know, I know we survey ourselves all the time in society here in the US. But this one is important. And to me and I think to the overall intent of the project. And so we hope that when you see information about the survey coming out, that you take a few minutes to fill it out and complete it. It will be anonymous. It won't be linked back to you. So we hope people will respond candidly and provide us with information both about what they see as needs related to serving underserved populations. But also, we're asking folks to identify any promising practices that they're aware of with respect to providing effective services to underserved populations. I think both of those types of information can be really helpful to us in terms of planning out the future of this project, designing effective training, effective technical assistance efforts. So we see it as one way of kind of triangulating that information. We will look to triangulate it with other forms of information, but really critical to kind of building some of the key infrastructure to the project.   Carol: Good.   Mark: Yeah.   Carol: And we definitely can be a help to in passing out the word when the survey comes out. I know Chaz, he'll be like, Carol, can you get that out in our email groups too? We have lots of different ways. We communicate out. We have different COPs. We've got lots of mailing lists and such, so we can help kind of promote the word to get at the different groups of folks. So you get kind of a wide range of participation. So I know, Mark, you've alluded to a few things that really you've learned so far this year. One, because always year one's a learning year because people don't fall neatly in boxes. Are there any other kind of learnings you've had from year one so far, or Mari, too. either of you?   Mark: Yeah, I'm going to defer to Mari on this one.   Mari: We've learned a lot. And when you say, what have you learned so far? It's almost what has been confirmed. The whole reason why this funding opportunity is available because there's a gap there, right? And so what the conversations that we've had with agencies is just confirmed that there's a lot of work that we need to do and that we need to do better. But every agency is at a different starting point. Who they consider underserved will vary from state to state, or even from city to city within the same state. Right And where those gaps and inequities occur will also vary. For some states, it's just getting the outreach to communities to that door exists in their area, to certain populations dropping out before they even reach the point of developing an EIP, and other agencies are seeing where the EIP is developed. Things start to roll out and then for different reasons that we want to dig into, we lose people, you know, in certain populations compared to the overall populations being served. And so one of the things we are learning is that we really need to direct the training and technical assistance to where each agency wants to start, but also helping them and working together using that data that Marc talked about to confirm or not confirm whether these actual inequities at different points in the process are occurring. And then of course, the environment and the climate that agencies operate under impacts what they're tackling, something that we've heard repeatedly. And I'm sure, Carol, you've heard often, is the staffing challenges that our state agencies are experiencing upwards to 40% of unfilled positions, and that will certainly impact the work and the progress and the impact when we start to work with the agencies. Some agencies are further along in the process where they've really looked at the data from their comprehensive statewide needs assessment and saw a hole there and actually started to develop a goal to address that. And so they've already have that beginning understanding and now are at the stage of, okay, what do we do with this information? What kind of training and technical assistance can we provide our staff, and how can you help with this. And getting us to move the needle, at least move the needle forward, right? And I know we're going to get a lot of new information or confirming knowledge from the national survey, but also using that national survey to start the conversation with each of the individual agencies. You know, how does this national data look for you? Is it true or how different it is? And so I think we've learned a lot, and there's a lot more that we're going to unravel in this process.   Carol: I love it. The CSNAs, you know, I think states for a long time did it as a check the box. We have to do the thing. We're going to contract to somebody to do the thing. Here's the thing. It's 300 pages. All right. We put it on the shelf. It's in the electronic folder. But I have noticed this over the years we've been doing the QM work. People are really taking the CSNA and actually paying attention to it and starting to put all the dots together, linking that as the basis for then what flows into the state plan flows into goals and priorities and really connecting and spending more time. The thing I've been very hopeful of is spending time with direct staff so that they understand the whole process, because staff will hear about this stuff, but they don't really understand it or what is that about? And now people are linking like, here's why we're doing all of this. We're actually finding out what's the situation in our state, and we're taking this and we're putting together goals and priorities within our state plan based on this data, this information. So it all links together, because I think people feel like everybody's just doing these random activities, but they actually all come together.   Mari: Yeah.   Carol: So that I have seen as a change, definitely in the five plus years I've been doing TA work now, I've seen a big swing and I've loved it, because now people are digging down in the organization and including not just your executive leadership and middle managers. They're including the line staff and having them have an understanding of what's going on so that they can understand their contributions to this overall big picture. So I love that.   Mari: Yeah, and we learned that from the Cal Promise Project We had this whole large, comprehensive database and our team were able to put together, I guess, reports of here's what the data is looking like, here's how your region is being impacted, and the transition specialists, the people who are meeting with the families and with the students, like we've never seen this before. We're always feeding data to our supervisor. Our boss is always asking for data, and so we give it to them. But we never know what happens to it. And now it makes sense. This is how my work is impacting people.   Carol: Absolutely. It's mind blowing to the staff because when you go out, you're talking and you're like, okay. They're like, well, why is Congress doing all this crazy stuff with our money or whatever is going on? I always tell them, I go, the only way your story can be told because they don't know all your anecdotal, really neat. You got Joe, a job like this is awesome and it's a great career and you know, all this great things are happening. They don't know any of that. They only know by the data you put in the system. And when you put data in the system, that isn't very good. That's the picture, the story that your agency is telling. This is the only way for other people to make decisions. You just see this. Aha. Like people are like, oh well this stuff actually does matter. And it is being used for something and then they can figure it out. And I love it when you get down in regional levels because then they go like and they'll know what's going on. Sometimes up here the management's like, oh they're trying to figure out what's happening in that region. Talk to the staff. They see boots on the ground, what's going on. So the data confirms what's been happening in that area. And then the whole agency having that conversation, it's really exciting and super empowering and energizing. I feel like for their customers and what's going to happen for their people, I love that. The other thing I was going to say, Mari too, is we've been seeing a slight improvement in staffing levels. Now it seems like things for some reason, because we work with a load of states and we talk a lot about this particular issue, the staffing levels, it's been leveling off with that whole people leaving, leaving, leaving, leaving, leaving. And now I've had a couple agencies in the last year where they were sitting at 25, 30% now. They're at 5% and 8% turnover. Like there have been significant changes because of all of the things they put into play to not only get staff, but to keep them, to retain them. So we've been trying to do some efforts on our end and we can't say it's all us, you know, but people have been putting a lot of strategy into this, and it's really fun to see on this other side, this more encouraging landscape for the staff out there.   Mari: Wow, that's great to hear.   Carol: Yeah. So I'm hopeful for you guys as you're carrying this out. So now what are your plans for year two as you go into year two? What are you guys hoping to accomplish this year?   Mark: I think it'll be a busy year for us. I think one of the major efforts, you know, we've already kind of alluded to a little bit, which is get the national survey out there to get that information back, have our team kind of start analyzing the results. We'll use that data. As I said before, we'll triangulate that with other information sources that we have our team working on. You mentioned comprehensive statewide needs assessments and state plans. Our team is doing an analysis of that specifically through the lens of underserved populations to see what can be gleaned from those statewide reports. And they're triangulating that also with kind of other forms of published literature around underserved populations. So there's a lot of kind of building that kind of database of information will be focused on executing agreements with the first of the agencies that are going to be involved with kind of the intensive phases of Rise Up, while at the same time kind of establishing the groundwork for agencies that we will add to the Rise Up group, you know, to as we work towards our goal of getting to up to ten state agencies. And then I think as we work with each of the agencies, kind of to begin to identify the populations that they want to focus on for, you know, kind of sustained efforts to enhance getting folks in the door, getting them into plan, getting them services. The outcomes will also begin to kind of roll out. You know, one aspect of Rise Up will be training. Some of it will be technical assistance. That will be kind of systems change focused efforts. We'll begin to roll out initial training. Some of those will focus on topics like cultural humility And then we'll be using the literature search, the national survey, consultation with the agencies that we're working with to lend direction to the development of additional trainings that will be kind of targeted towards all levels of the organization. And then within the agencies that we begin to work with, we'll also begin kind of identifying the targeted and specific areas of need for technical assistance that will be unique to each of the agencies. So I see those as kind of the major tasks that will be kind of getting into in the beginning of year two and then kind of sustaining through the next year.   Carol: That is super exciting. I'm really excited about this. I would love to talk to you guys too, again at the end of like next year to see where things are at. Now, I understand you to, I believe, or somebody coming to CSAVR and people may want to chat with you. Is there a way folks could reach out to you if they are interested in talking to you about the project?   Mark: Sure.   Mari: Yeah   Mark: Yeah, so we will be at CSVAR, our project coordinator, Letty Vavasour will be there. Mari will be there. I will be there. So we're certainly kind of approachable there. As we mentioned before, CSAVR is a project partner of ours, and we mentioned encore. I think they're going to be there as well at CSAVR. And one other partner we haven't mentioned, but we should give them some credit, is a major partner with us is the George Washington Center for Rehabilitation Counseling, Research and Education. They're also a project partner with us and will be instrumental in kind of our efforts. So CSAVR is one place where folks can connect with us. Our team is working on a website, so we should have that up kind of in the near future. That's another way to get a hold of us. Email is always a good way to get a hold of us. I'm easy to get a hold of by email at MTucker at SDSU.edu and Mari is MGuillermo@SDSU.edu. So those are kind of really easy ways to get Ahold of us. And then of course Interwork Institute and the VRTAC-QM, we're sort of housed right there and involved in a number of those projects going on there so folks can track us down through Interwork or the QM.   Carol: Excellent. And, Mari, would you mind, Mari, would you spell out your email address? Just in case, because like me, it's like, how is that spelled?   Mari: And for those of you who know Spanish, my last name is Guillermo, which is William in Spanish, but it's m g as in George. U I L L E R M as in Mari o at SDSU.edu.   Carol: Excellent. Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time. I'm super excited. And I wish our listeners could see like, the excitement on both of your faces about this project because it makes me like, super happy. I mean, the project couldn't be in better hands. You guys always do really good work out of Interwork, and I'm really excited to see what comes. So let's definitely chat again down the road.   Mark: That would be great.   Carol: Thanks for joining me.   Mari: Absolutely. Thank you Carol.   {Music}   Outro Voice: Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, one minute at a time, brought to you by the VR TAC for Quality Management. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening!

we're deep diving the love triangle between Sabrina carpenter, Camila cabello, and Shawn Mendes in 2024! after much needed context from Sabrina's Short n Sweet album and Taste lyrics, and Camila's Cxoxo with songs like June Gloom we were left to detangle and go through the entire LORE of the entire love triangle since the beginning of Shawn and Camila! hope you enjoy :) Follow us on IG: https://www.instagram.com/insideoutwithjamieandjordan/ Jordan's IG: https://www.instagram.com/cupofjordy/ Jamie's IG: https://www.instagram.com/jamiekaywellnesss/ 0:00 intro 4:41 timeline! 15:48 lyrics 15:50 Shawn's lyrics 19:14 Camila's lyrics 22:10 Sabrina's lyrics 37:11 final thoughts and feelings...... Sabrina carpenter short n sweet lyric deep dive, song breakdown, Camila cabello June gloom, Camila cabello Shawn Mendes love triangle, CXOXO, chats and reacts, lyric song breakdown, short n sweet tour, Sabrina carpenter interview, lore, short n sweet lore

Welcome to the first Music Talk segment! In this episode, I talk about how the album C,XOXO grew on me after I initially thought it was a disaster. I touch on each song briefly and extract the standout qualities of each one. If you love to hear the stories behind the music (like I do), please share this episode to your stories!3:10 Initial thoughts on album 6:00 f I luv it8:07 Chanel N. 511:50 He Knows 13:35 TwentySomethings 15:13 Dade County Dreaming 15:42 koshi xoxo 18:25 Hot uptown & Uugly 19:20 Dream Girls 21:22 album cover 22:37 305tildie 23:24 B.O.A.T 27:24 pretty when I cry 29:56 June Gloom 33:25 God Speed35:23 final thoughts on C, XoxoSend me a Text! Tell me what you think of this episode

It's a June debate and SCOTUS season spectacular with special guest Ben Softness! (Plus the presidential pep talk you've been needing.)   Brain Trust Live is Lila Nordstrom and Brent Thornburg's look at the week in electoral and political news. Join the millions of falling phones, sirens, helicopters, barking dogs, and computer beeps who love our podcast and tell your friends about BTL!  Then rate us on iTunes or find us Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Stitcher, or Instagram! And, as always, you can buy and review Lila's book here: Some Kids Left Behind. Plus, subscribe to Lila's new podcast, What Can I Do, wherever you get your podcasts!

This week on The Tinsel Factory, the night an entire film crew tripped out on some delicious chowder. Movie Reviews: The Bikeriders and South Park: Bigger Longer & Uncut 25th Anniversary Support This Podcast: https://anchor.fm/tinselfactorypod  Merch: https://shop.spreadshirt.com/the-tinsel-factory/all Venmo: @tinselfactorypod Buy Me a Coffee: buymeacoffee.com/tinselpod Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/tinselfactory/ Sources: https://www.vice.com/en/article/ypaq3g/remembering-when-everyone-filming-titanic-got-spiked-with-pcp https://globalnews.ca/news/10462345/titanic-movie-set-pcp-chowder-halifax-details/#  https://globalnews.ca/news/10462345/titanic-movie-set-pcp-chowder-halifax-details/# https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/apr/16/the-titanic-drug-poisoning-is-one-of-the-greatest-mysteries-in-film-history-about-to-be-solved https://www.businessinsider.com/titanic-pcp-laced-chowder-mystery-what-happened-2024-4 https://www.vulture.com/2022/12/25-years-later-no-one-knows-who-spiked-the-titanic-chowder.html  https://variety.com/2022/film/news/titanic-crew-members-drugged-pcp-clam-chowder-1235465618/  Break music: youtube.com/watch?v=cB-Q3nNprJY&list=PLfP6i5T0-DkKEFxaxpzpImxaPAEFVkRNg  --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/support

Sarah gets bleeped at and Heather escapes the June Gloom. THANK YOU to our Patrons! Please consider directly supporting us at Patreon for ad-free episodes, access to our Discord server, and all around good vibes as you help us keep the lights on.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/hsgd. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on The Tinsel Factory, the death of Rebecca Schaeffer and reforms that came from her murder Movie Reviews: Inside Out 2 Support This Podcast: https://anchor.fm/tinselfactorypod  Merch: https://shop.spreadshirt.com/the-tinsel-factory/all Venmo: @tinselfactorypod Buy Me a Coffee: buymeacoffee.com/tinselpod Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/tinselfactory/ Sources: https://www.pressreader.com/australia/who/20170612/283154313618435 https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/famous-hollywood-murders-42384794  youtube.com/watch?v=GzXWO76E69g  --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/support

Changing your methods in the garden is a great way to apply the lessons learned in a season. Whether it's the timing, the plants you grow, or the modes you use, new seasons are opportunities for new perspectives. Hear how Jacques and Kevin take a moment of pause in the June Gloom of San Diego. Epic Gardening Shop Homepage:https://growepic.co/3VFTDouBotanical Interests Shop Homepage: https://growepic.co/3RnQXcPBook Collection Page:  https://growepic.co/4bXewl2EG Homesteading Book: https://growepic.co/4b16c2fLearn More: 17 Cherry Tomatoes for Your Summer GardenConnect With Jacques in the Garden:It's almost summer time! Kevin and Jacques talk about their plans for the warm season in their 2024 gardens. They look back on their wins, discuss their test garden, and cover their plans for summer gardening. As the new season approaches, they consider new ways to grow. Apply to the Epic Affiliate Program. Shop the StoreAs an exclusive for listeners, use code THEBEET for 5% off your entire order on our store, featuring our flagship Birdies Raised Beds. These are the original metal raised beds, lasting up to 5-10x longer than wooden beds, are ethically made in Australia, and have a customizable modular design. Get Our BooksLooking for a beginner's guide to growing food in small spaces? Kevin's book, Field Guide to Urban Gardening, explains the core, essential information that you'll need to grow plants, no matter where you live!He also wrote Grow Bag Gardening to provide you with specialized knowledge that can bring you success when growing in fabric pots.Preorder Kevin's newest book Epic Homesteading if you are looking to turn your home into a thriving homestead! Order signed copies of Kevin's books, plus more of his favorite titles in our store.More ResourcesLooking for more information? Follow us:Our BlogYouTube (Including The Beet Podcast,  Epic Homesteading and Jacques in the Garden and Botanical Interest )Instagram (Including Epic Homesteading, Jacques)PinterestTikTokFacebookFacebook GroupDiscord Server

This week on The Tinsel Factory, the disappearance of actress Jean Spangler and the theories as to what happened to her.  Movie Reviews: In a Violent Nature Support This Podcast: https://anchor.fm/tinselfactorypod  Merch: https://shop.spreadshirt.com/the-tinsel-factory/all Venmo: @tinselfactorypod Buy Me a Coffee: buymeacoffee.com/tinselpod Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/tinselfactory/ Sources: https://allthatsinteresting.com/jean-spangler  https://ew.com/celebrity/true-crime-jean-spangler-unsolved-disappearance/  https://web.archive.org/web/20161212142616/http://articles.latimes.com/2002/oct/20/local/me-then20  https://ladailymirror.com/2021/12/24/black-dahlia-steve-hodels-many-lies-about-his-father-dr-george-hodel/  --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/support

This week Erin and Brennan are picked up in a time machine captained by Walter Cronkite! Is it a time machine or a spaceship? Or a spaceship time machine?? Whatever it is, it's filled with BRAAAAINNNN GRAAAAAIIIINNN!!!!! A cereal that makes your brain grow, like, a lot! We meet Rex, Elsa, Woog, and Dweeb, dinosaurs (and a pterosaur) that are brought to the 90's to fulfill the wishes of children at The Museum of Natural History *wink* (new law, it must be said in the voice of Cronkite for all time). On the other hand, there is Professor Screweyes who sees our Mesozoic friends as monsters in his show of frights and fears. We talk zombies, Totoro, chainsaws, unreliable friends, and a murder of crows. To be honest though, there's nothing wrong with a horror circus, so we're not actually sure why Screweyes is considered bad. In a month we are calling June Gloom, this is one of our most uplifting and beautiful films from our childhoods. We'll rendez-vous, we'll rendez-vous.

Who's in the mood for a little June Gloom? We finally watched John Frankenheimer's 1966 film Seconds, starring Rock Hudson, in a feature segment we're calling “Retro Featurism.” Kat and A.C. wonder what its Frankenstein-esque plotline in which viewers could find gay or trans messaging, says about the current moment where stories like Poor Things and Severance (and Maggie Gyllenhaal's upcoming The Bride) are resonating with audiences. Plus, the return of our celebrity guessing game “What's Wrong With Me?”!!!Discussed in this episode:Fortnightly Freq-Out episode about the documentary Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed: https://feministfrequency.com/video/ffr-presents-fortnightly-freq-outs-mini-ep-1-with-special-guest-a-c-lamberty/FFR “Machos: Fully Loaded” episode about mental health vis-a-vis masculinity in media: https://feministfrequency.com/video/machos-on-the-verge-of-a-nervous-breakdown-machos-fully-loaded-episode-4-ffr-229/The fascinating life story of “Bride of Frankenstein” Elsa Lanchester: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsa_LanchesterNote: In this episode, Kat erroneously and incorrectly uses the term “plus sized” in description. Apologies for this misuse of the phrase!Find Kat:twitter.com/kat_ex_machinaletterboxd.com/katexmachinaFind AC:instagram.com/aclambertyletterboxd.com/aclambertyFind Us:Join our PatreonOur WebsiteSubscribe to FFR on Apple PodcastsTwitterInstagramNEW: Letterboxd

This week on The Tinsel Factory, the death of Marilyn Monroe and the major conspiracy theories that have persisted surrounding the event since 1962. Movie Reviews: Furiosa Support This Podcast: https://anchor.fm/tinselfactorypod  Merch: https://shop.spreadshirt.com/the-tinsel-factory/all Venmo: @tinselfactorypod Buy Me a Coffee: buymeacoffee.com/tinselpod Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/tinselfactory/  Sources: https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/marilyn-monroe-documentary-charles-stanley-gifford-mediawan-1235222789/ https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marilyn-Monroe  https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2010/11/marilyn-monroe-201011  https://people.com/politics/marilyn-monroe-affair-john-f-kennedy-robert-f-kennedy/  Marilyn Monroe: The Biography by Donald Spoto  Goddess: The Secret Lives of Marilyn Monroe by Anthony Summers The Life and Curious Death of Marilyn Monroe by Robert F. Saltzer  The Assassination of Marilyn Monroe by Donald H. Wolfe --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tinselfactorypod/support

It's a phrase that puts a shiver down the spine of all Northwesterners: June Gloom. And it's coming. But first we have a delightful Friday and a warm (but not too warm) Saturday. In this podcast, I describe the forecast and why we get June gloom every year.

Can you even grill without BBQ Sauce? June Gloom is almost over and the sun is coming out. Neil is talking all things BBQ sauce from home made to store bought. What sauce pairs best with what meal? Neil has all the answers. Take a listen!

June Gloom? Aidan and Noah dive into the topics that have Twitter and their groupchat in a tizzy. Politics (Indictments and Bad Bodies) Sports (Caitlin Clark v Angel Reese) Cardi B. vs BIA Bravo Updates Follow the On a Real Note Podcast on Social Media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onarealnotepod/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onarealnotepod Twitter: https://twitter.com/onarealnotepod YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OnARealNotePod Visit our website: https://www.onarealnote.com/

May Gray, June Gloom, and now July Fry? We wrapped up memorial weekend in style, Mel looks forward to her 40th birthday as Dustin looks back fondly on well, being young. Joel continues his search for vibes, Why we recommend your kids join theater, the types of comedy “old people” like, and Dustin's “sunset hat trick”.  Enjoy the show! Let us know, would you rather encounter a Man of a Bear while alone in the woods? Over at the Dustin Nickerson Comedy Fans Facebook Group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/dustinnickersoncomedy Enjoy the show! Sponsor: DILLY COMPANY Get 20% off your entire order at http://www.thedillyco.com and us promo code “backseater”. Watch the new comedy special, Runs in the Family from Dustin Nickerson | (Full Comedy Special) #newcomedy #standupcomedy : https://youtu.be/0Dybn3Atj9k Don't forget, you can now WATCH the show on YouTube for the full featured experience here: https://www.youtube.com/@DustinNickerson. Order Dustin's book: How to Be Married (To Melissa) today!” https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/how-to-be-married-to-melissa/ Give a little More and Get a Little More from us on Patreon! Head to https://www.patreon.com/DustinNickerson for the Patreon Pre Show with behind the scenes podcast rants, exclusive bonus content, and to help support the show. Want to be a part of the show? Shoot us a message to dontmakemecomebackthere@gmail.com and get your very own horrible parenting/relationship advice. Don't Make Me Come Back There is edited & produced in partnership with Andy Lara at http://www.andylikeswords.com  

I am giving you tips on how to consciously manage your mind when the sun decides to leave indefinitely and there is nothing but gray skies around you. We typically react by rejecting  this kind of weather and it causes us additional suffering. We don't even realize that there are other ways to handle it or why it is important to do that.In this episode I give you tips on how to mange unwanted weather (and unwanted life events) by becoming more self-aware and understanding that you have the option of consciously  responding instead of unconsciously reacting. I give you three specific ways you approach this the next time you are faced with weather ( or a reality) that you wish was not there.In terms of updates, I am sharing the link here for the upcoming event I am doing called Tap Into Courage & Speak Your Truth  with Author Claudia Chotzen on 6/11 at the Workzones in the Paseo Nuevo Mall in SB. Click on the link to learn the details about the event and to purchase a $25 ticket for an inspirational evening that you are not likely to forget.https://www.thebrainbs.com/eventClick on the platform of your choice to listen to the latest episode,follow the podcast, and write a review so we can spread the news and reach more people! Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-power-of-community-collaboration-in-sb-podcast/id1548758744Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/4RWxW7Ni1EHTAywriOwY9z?si=d9c181834529414dGoogle Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/search/The%20Brain%20BS%20PodcastAmazon Music https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/09208f98-6c21-4fea-abbf-14a495cabd09/the-brain-bs-podcast-learning-to-live-consciouslyI Heart Radiohttps://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-brain-bs-podcast-learn-76710324/Pandorahttps://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-brain-bs-podcast-learning-to-live-consciously/PC:60845  If you want to get in touch with me https://www.pandora.com/podcast/the-brain-bs-podcast-learning-to-live-consciously/PC:60845  If you want to get in touch with me and discuss creative ways to collaboratehttps://www.thebrainbs.com/

I feel so blessed to have the opportunity to meet so many interesting people who come from such a large and diverse background. Today we get to spend time with Elizabeth Louis. For much of her adult life, Elizabeth worked in the television and entertainment industry. What she didn't realize until later was that her talents really came from coaching people. She did it as a child, and finally in 2016 she began to do it as a career by leaving all the politics and entertainment infighting behind. Elizabeth and I have a wide-ranging conversation talking about everything from pessimism to optimism, why we all behave as we do and we talk about things like Trust and Teamwork. I think you will find Elizabeth's comments and observations to be quite poignant and relevant to life today. About the Guest: Elizabeth Louis is an executive performance coach who guides high performers, STEM executives, top athletes, and driven entrepreneurs who want to increase their impact, influence, and income. Her work lies at the intersection of neuroscience and the psychology of high performance: She is a trained therapist with graduate degrees in Positive Psychology and education in Clinical Mental Health Counseling, and a decade of experience coaching top executives. Through her 1:1 coaching for hundreds of clients, she creates personalized programs to help leaders eliminate the limiting mindsets holding them back — and upgrade their identities by leveraging the power of neuroplasticity, new thought patterns, effective communication, and influential leadership by creating psychological safety for teams. For Elizabeth, the ultimate goal is both the tangible and the intangible. Her evidence-based approaches lead to business results backed by data, and the permanent changes are priceless: a champion mindset that creates meaning in your life and in the lives of others. Ways to connect with Alexandra: Website: ElizabethLouis.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ElizabethLouisCoaching Instagram: instagram.com/elizabethlouiscoaching Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ElizabethLouis Linkedin personal profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louiselizabeth/ Call to action: What thinking trap is limiting your performance? elizabethlouis.com/thinkingtrapquiz About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, Hi, and welcome to an episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to introduce to you and get to chat with an executive coach. She says she's an executive performance coach, and she deals with a lot of people from athletes to high performers in a variety of environments. And I'm gonna really be interested to hear about all that. But that comes later. Now we got to start by saying hi to Elizabeth, and we really appreciate you being here. And welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Elizabeth Louis ** 01:53 Thank you so much, Michael. I am so excited to be here.   Michael Hingson ** 01:56 Well, we're we're glad you're here. Now. Where are you located?   Elizabeth Louis ** 02:00 I'm in Virginia.   Michael Hingson ** 02:04 So is it hot?   Elizabeth Louis ** 02:06 Oh, gosh, yes. It's like a light switch flipped and all of a sudden the humidity came. But it was it was a we didn't get that humidity until later. Which you know, you gotta take the winds. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 02:16 Well, for people who want to know, this is the summertime for all of us when we're recording this. And right now, here. It's 97 degrees in Southern California on the high desert. And it's about 11:34am. So we're gonna get to 100. Today once again, but we don't have the humidity that you do.   Elizabeth Louis ** 02:37 Know. And but you're actually hotter than we are right now. Because it's only 90 degrees here. But   Elizabeth Louis ** 02:44 the humidity only 45%. humid. Wow. For outside, though, so maybe you guys have it worse right now.   Michael Hingson ** 02:56 I don't I don't I've got an air conditioner. So I'm fine. Yes, we'll live with that. Well, I'm really glad you're here. Looking forward to learning all about being an executive performer, coach and all that. But why don't we start with the early Elizabeth, you growing up? And tell us about you? And what where you came from why you do what you do? Or anything else that you want to say?   Elizabeth Louis ** 03:21 Oh, yeah, so I got into this by accident. Actually, I have about I don't know, 10 or 15 years and Television and Film Producing. I know right big twist or big shift to psychology. But long story short, I had a rough childhood, like a lot of people out there. And I was mentally tortured, and I wanted to be mentally free. And I ended up being diagnosed with complex PTSD when I was 26. And there was not a single therapist that I ran into that could help me get transformation. They just wanted me to cope. And I didn't believe in coping, I believe mental freedom was possible. And so long story short, I got my first master's in positive psychology with a subspecialty in coaching psychology to see if I could fix myself and that's where I fell in love with neuroscience and neurobiology and neuro psychology especially. And I ended up getting mental freedom and then I just was good at it. The rest became history   Michael Hingson ** 04:19 without kind of going into a lot of detail when you say mentally tortured. What does that mean? Yeah,   Elizabeth Louis ** 04:23 that's a great question. I so my childhood was rough. My brother tried killing me my whole childhood. I didn't know that was like, not normal until a few years ago to be completely honest. And so I just I was very hyper vigilant. I was very stressed. I was very just always on edge ready to freak out or feel like I was being attacked and I just felt so stressed and anxious all the time. And I just wanted healing from it. I also had a handful of experiences of where I was sexually abused by professionals in the medical world. And I just wanting healing and peace to come into my soul in my mind, if that makes sense. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 05:04 I understand. Well, that's really kind of sad. Did he ever get over doing that or wanting to do that?   Elizabeth Louis ** 05:10 Yes, he did. Thankfully, thank the Lord, right. He's actually not that type of person anymore. And he and I are working on our relationship. So I forgive him. I'm actually grateful because it's helped me become such a strong and mentally tough person, which has helped me excel in my career.   Michael Hingson ** 05:28 Yeah. And you've you, you've, well, you sound normal, whatever that means. Right? I had to say that. For a psychologist. I had to say that. Weird   Elizabeth Louis ** 05:39 though normal is boring.   Michael Hingson ** 05:43 Well, you sound like you have your head on straight then. Yes, I did it. And we could do we could do that. So did you grow up in Virginia, where you are now? Or where are you from? Originally?   Elizabeth Louis ** 05:54 I did grew up in Virginia. And then I moved to Atlanta, and then Africa, and then back to Virginia. That's kind of Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 06:02 what took you to Africa? Well,   Elizabeth Louis ** 06:04 um, my background is in television producing. And so I had the privilege of doing a wildlife documentary, documentary internship. And so I lived on a game reserve for about 40 days, and it was absolutely incredible.   Michael Hingson ** 06:20 Did you have any up close and personal conversation with lions?   Elizabeth Louis ** 06:23 Oh, my God. It's funny. You say that, because I actually almost got attacked by a lion. It's kind of a funny story. I was, I think 2425 And I was on top of the Land Rover filming the lions. And there were cubs and cubs can be very curious. Yeah. And the cub was about to jump on the hood of the Land Rover, and I'm on the roof of the Land Rover. And all of a sudden in the background, you see mommy just booking it. And so we don't worry about the cub. We worry about mama, mama lion. And at that moment, the Ranger screamed at me Liz freeze. And the funny part is I got the worst charley horse in my hip. And that moment, and I was like, great. 24 I'm gonna die. Luckily, the we use you carry pepper spray with you when you're, and we wafted it towards them. And so that caused them to shift but had I lived? It would have been really cool to be like, Look, my lion scar. Just totally Trump's your SharkBite.   Michael Hingson ** 07:20 Yeah. Well, but still who wants to deal with the pain if you don't have to?   Elizabeth Louis ** 07:27 Exactly, especially in a second world? Country?   Michael Hingson ** 07:31 And what was the lion Mata you was the cub who was curious, but that's the way lions are.   Elizabeth Louis ** 07:36 Mama lions are very protective male lions don't do a lot that look look scary.   Michael Hingson ** 07:41 Yeah, they're not. It's fair. So what other kinds of things did you do while doing television producing and so on?   Elizabeth Louis ** 07:50 Well, I did on a range of things. I mean, I've worked with Turner entertainment B et. I did a lot of freelance stuff, working on small independent projects. I have done stuff in front of the camera behind the camera. I really liked line producing at the time, but then it just got very political and I don't know I think television shows today are more dark than they've ever been. And I'm okay to not be in it anymore.   Michael Hingson ** 08:19 Yeah, it gets a little bit tiring to be involved in dark i I must admit, I like a lot of the older television shows even the the the ones that are more serious than the drag that's in Perry Mason's and other things of the world. But I like mash and Happy Days and other things like that. And the Twilight Zone, they're just not as dark at all is a lot of what we see today. I would   Elizabeth Louis ** 08:43 agree. And the older stuff actually has a plot nowadays, it's just action. And I'm like, this made no sense. And this is so unrealistic.   Michael Hingson ** 08:53 The the exceptions that you can make an excuse for things like we just went to see Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny. Oh, and there are inconsistencies like in one scene. One of the good guys ends up underwater and gets out of some handcuffs, his flashlight dies. But the next day, he's got a flashlight again, and you're going where did that come from? But that's what makes that kind of movie fun. It's just an action fun film. Not dark at all. In a lot of senses. It's just good entertainment. It was a lot of fun. Awesome.   Elizabeth Louis ** 09:29 Yeah, it's nice to hear that. That stuff is coming back out. Because for a while there, it was just like oh my,   Michael Hingson ** 09:37 my niece and I went to see it. And I kept saying to her during and then after the movie, I kept saying, gee, I wish they have a little action in this movie. I mean, there was a chase scene every 10th of a second. It was great. It was fun. But but you know, we need some of that to get away from a lot of things. And it seems to me that all All too often people take life so seriously. And they worry about all sorts of things over which they don't have any influence or control, but they still worry about them anyway. Right? So true. So how did you and when did you get into coaching?   Elizabeth Louis ** 10:15 Um, it was a fluke, to be honest. So I went to graduate school to get my degree in positive psychology with a subspecialty and coaching psychology. And before I even graduated, I was naturally gifted at it, I guess you could say, and my professors started giving me their overflow of clientele. And I started pretty early on professionally at least, I will say, I realized I started doing this when I was eight years old, not knowing I was doing it because I was the therapist of the family. I kind of my because my dad died when I was seven. So my mom was stuck to raise with this rebellious child herself. And so a lot of times she would confide in me and students at school would confide in me, but professionally, it was in 2016 2015, when my professors were giving me their overflow. And it turned out I was just really good at getting people transformation quickly. And at that neurological level, which allows for permanency because that's high performers want everything done, like you know, three years ago. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 11:18 Yeah. And get it done. Now, instant gratification, which doesn't always work either. No,   Elizabeth Louis ** 11:24 it doesn't. And at the end of the day, rarely it does. But there's things you can do to suffocate neurons and develop neurons.   Michael Hingson ** 11:34 Things like,   Elizabeth Louis ** 11:36 well, it kind of depends on the situation. Like, for instance, if you struggle with PTSD, there is a technique that you can do, it's a visualization technique, which is, every time you have that, that that that hurtful memory, I guess we could say reappear in your mind's eye, if you ahead of time are really familiar with that area, you constantly take a step back in your mind's eye, and the less you feed it, the more that neurons will suffocate in a different situation. Like let's say you're trying to create new synaptic nerve connections. This is where neuroplasticity at its finest works. And so you want to change your language, you want to change the way you talk about things, you want to really upgrade your identity. And then it's walking and crew and thinking in that identity. It's a lot like dress for the job you want. But it's thinking, speaking and seeing that mentality. For instance, I at one point, had some health issues. And I didn't want to have the health issues. And I went through this program that helps retrain your brain. And this is when I was got really obsessed with neuroscience. And one of the big fundamentals in getting out of sickness, if you will, is not talking about it, because the more you talk about it, the more you actually strengthen that normalcy. And we have proven in neuroscience that 98 to 75% of all mental and physical illnesses are due to your thoughts and your thinking, which means two to 25% is due to your genetics and environment. So there's a lot to say about the power of the mind and how it operates.   Michael Hingson ** 13:06 Yeah, the mind is a very powerful and complex thing. Although I also think that if we would stop and think more about what we do, in our mind, we could probably learn a whole lot more about ourselves than we tend to do. Oh   Elizabeth Louis ** 13:23 my gosh, Michael, I love you. Yes. And you know, really what you're saying there is people with a prefrontal cortex are amazing. But most people are living in their limbic system. It's it's like when you call in for so many are like, Can you Can I speak to someone with a brain and not just the automated answers you've been told to give me. But you know, we are, you know, the brain develops back to front. And so unfortunately, not a lot of people are taught how to think anymore.   Michael Hingson ** 13:49 No, and and I'm sure there was a lot of that that has always gone on. But certainly nowadays, I think that people are much less, not really encouraged to think we're not encouraged to be curious, which is so disappointing. It   Elizabeth Louis ** 14:05 really is. I think curiosity is really a skill that can empower you to do so much.   Michael Hingson ** 14:14 Well, it certainly can. And one of my favorite books is a book by Richard Fineman, the physicist is entitled surely you're joking Mr. Fineman adventures of a curious fellow in the first chapter. He talks about being curious, he said his father always encouraged him to be curious, like they were out in a park or something and there was a bird flying and his father said, why is that bird flying? You know, and just really encouraged and of course for a good physicist, a theoretical physicists but not just physicists, I think for anyone. Yeah, Curiosity is such an important thing. why things are as they are, how, how can they possibly be better or or what, what do I need to do from for me and for the world that will make it better. And being curious about stuff is just something we so strongly discourage. I remember once being in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. And typically, art museums don't really do a lot for me, because everything's behind glass. But my wife and I were there and there was a statue up on a pedestal. And she said, it's a really tall pedestal, and I reached up and I could touch the top of the pedestal and the toe of this woman's foot. And this guard shoots over don't touch that you can't touch that. Well, the reality is that, how am I going to know anything about it, and he had no sympathy or understanding, when in reality, there should be no reason why at least, people who can't see sculptures and other things ought not to be able to feel them. They can create procedures in museums and so on to allow for that. But they don't, because they operate under different principles like arts made to be seen. Well, it's not just me to be seen sports fans. Exactly. Well said, you know, and we really don't tend to encourage curiosity, my father and my mother did. My dad, especially I think, because my mom didn't think about as much she, I won't say, took me for granted in a negative way. Not at all. Both of them didn't care that I happened to be growing up blind. The doctors told them early on that I should be put away in a home for handicapped children, because no blind child could ever go up to mount anything. And my parents said nuts to that. And so they that never was an issue. They didn't deal with me in a in a negative way. I can't say that they didn't deal with me in a different way. Because there are things that you're going to do differently. I learned braille instead of reading print. Right. But my dad especially encouraged curiosity. And I thought that was great. Yeah,   Elizabeth Louis ** 17:00 I think that's great, too. I'm someone that was naturally curious, like I'm most Social Learner, which means you deserve to learn at the end of the day, in your physicists example is perfect. Because as a as a psychologist, I'm constantly asking those questions, right? Especially when it comes to language. Like, why is that person using that word out of all the words that they could use? Or what does that word mean? Or what would it look like? Like this? Like, I can get to a point where it's like, I don't know if you ever saw Toy Story five, but I feel like I'm 40 sometimes where I'm just like, Oh, me, I could go into such a bunny trails.   Michael Hingson ** 17:38 Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. Shouldn't be, but unfortunately, all too often. We seem to think that it isn't the right thing to do. Well, it's exactly the right thing to do. Well, if I were an alien up in space, looking down at Earth, I wouldn't want to come here, given the way people behave. If they're at all peaceful, they would, would really encourage curiosity. But you know,   Elizabeth Louis ** 18:00 that's Yeah, well, you know, Curiosity is huge and empathy, too. It's really hard to be empathetic if you can't be curious. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 18:11 Yeah, it's, it's important to be able to do that. Yes,   Elizabeth Louis ** 18:14 I mean, so important. And unfortunately, America has become more self absorbed and more AI centric. And that is a big downfall and curiosity because it just makes you consumed with yourself and not your community.   Michael Hingson ** 18:26 What do you think it's that way? Why is that happening?   Elizabeth Louis ** 18:30 Great question. Hi. I mean, I think a big part is social media. When I lived in South Africa, I will say I really saw the influence of Hollywood at a very different angle. And so I think we are just, I mean, we'll also Anglo Saxons. I mean, if you if you trace it back to all the way to when we came when the English came here, that was one of the reasons why they wanted to come here was that independence and Anglo Saxons have always preached it's Ay ay ay and not really a oui oui, oui, now it's shifted drastically, I'd argue from when they first came. It's gotten greater than the I'm mentality.   Michael Hingson ** 19:08 Yeah, we have forgotten what teamwork is really all about so much.   Elizabeth Louis ** 19:13 Yeah. And you really see that in corporations.   Michael Hingson ** 19:17 I've heard of corporations, large corporations without mentioning any names where, at the end of the day, when a team does something great, who gets rewarded, who gets recognized the team leader, not necessarily the whole team, which is so unfortunate because the team leader is usually made to look good by the rest of the people on the team. And the reality is it should be a team effort.   Elizabeth Louis ** 19:40 Agreed. I totally agree. And I think this is also why so many corporations are struggling to keep competent individuals. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 19:50 They forget what team is all about. I mean, there's so much truth to the idea that there is no I in team. It   Elizabeth Louis ** 19:57 really is. It really is. I mean, Who knows what the next 30 years will bring?   Michael Hingson ** 20:04 Well, the other side of it is that I tend to be pretty optimistic and believe that in the long run, things will work themselves out. And I don't know what it is necessarily going to take to make that happen. But I've got to believe that we can, we can learn and we can grow, and we can get better. Absolutely.   Elizabeth Louis ** 20:22 And I think you're going to see, I would agree with that. And I think we're going to see those who are more humble, and considerate and we focused are going to be the ones that will probably propel forward because people People want to feel included. I mean, it's in our wiring to have a community and to love our community and care for our community. We aren't wired to be isolated.   Michael Hingson ** 20:47 How do we get back to that, though? Or how do we move forward to that?   Elizabeth Louis ** 20:52 I think humility is going to be the biggest thing, right? But you have to desire that and you can't force someone to want to get help if they don't want help. But you can love people, even the most toxic people.   Michael Hingson ** 21:03 Right? But I think humility, or adopting a humble attitude is certainly something that makes a lot of sense. That's a very good point. Because again, all too often it's just I and me and not recognizing the the fact that it's us. Yeah,   Elizabeth Louis ** 21:21 I mean, because if you think about it, like we are, if you like it or not, we are connected. And it's healthier to be interdependent versus codependent, or self dependent. And like if you decide intentionally or not intentionally to get in a car accident, you impact everyone around you. And so you have to remember and that's that power of mindfulness. And mindfulness requires curiosity to to a degree, to remember that your actions do impact those around you regardless if you want to, believe it or not. Your opinion to that doesn't matter.   Michael Hingson ** 21:52 Yeah, so what exactly would you say is mindfulness?   Elizabeth Louis ** 21:56 Mindfulness is is, you know, the more I study it, the more I think it's bigger than I'm able to articulate in this one will statement. But mindfulness is being open and observing with curiosity and being judgment free. So it's having a non judgmental stance was tremendous curiosity, I think you have to have acceptance in it too, personally, meaning that you're open to the sensations and the feelings that your experience without trying without trying to control them?   Michael Hingson ** 22:24 How do you teach somebody to be more mindful or adopt a more mindfulness attitude?   Elizabeth Louis ** 22:30 There's lots of techniques. I mean, I think this is where it really comes to being personalized to the individual. But you know, CBT is even one of them cognitive behavior therapy. And then there's even branches of third wave, cognitive behavior therapy that is more explicit on mindfulness. One of the first things I tell people is you've got to grow your self awareness. And I like to tell people imagine being a fly on the wall in your own mental mind. Because we have to your point, right, it's like, people aren't always aware, you have to start paying attention to your thoughts. And this kind of freaked me out when I learned it, but you can have 6000 to 70,000 thoughts a day? And that's a lot of thoughts, right? Thoughts. I know and 95% Double Down. Exactly, exactly, no. But 95% of those thoughts are the same every single day. And 190 9% can be negative on average is 80%. And so I think you have to learn what your thinking style is, I do have a fun free quiz that will score you in 17 of the most common thinking traps. And you find that on my website, Elizabeth lewis.com. But what I found for mindfulness is it's it's it's shifting from that fixed mindset of I have to be perfect, or I have to be this way, or I should do this. And getting to know yourself. So many of us don't know who we are as adults, we we've been frozen ourselves as who we were as children.   Michael Hingson ** 23:57 I think you sent me a link to that. And Ted, and we will include that in the notes. So hopefully people will will do that. And take the quiz. I haven't had a chance yet. It's been pretty hectic, but I do want to go take it. I'm going to be curious to see what it see. There we are back to curiosity again. Yes,   Elizabeth Louis ** 24:16 I think, you know, I also think a lot of this is making up your mind and just doing it. I don't know if you've ever had a situation in your life where you're like, you know what, I'm just gonna make up my mind and this is what I'm gonna do burn the ships and move forward that can sometimes create a huge change in your life.   Michael Hingson ** 24:33 Yeah, I mean, making up your mind making a decision. And again, I think it's important to do it for the right reason. So you make up your mind to do something and it doesn't necessarily work out just as you thought it would. Even that's okay. I I used to say all the time, I'm my own worst critic. Everybody does, right. They say I'm my own worst critic. I I'm gonna I don't want to look at this because I'm my own worst critic. What I've learned is, I'm my own best teacher, because I read somewhere, no one can teach you anything. You have to teach yourself. They can provide you the opportunity, they can tide you provide you the way, but you have to teach yourself. And I've learned that when I talk about listening to speeches, whenever I give a speech or listening to podcasts, when I do these, I love to go back and listen, because I want to hear me and see how I can make it better. But I've learned that it's not I'm my own worst critic, which is negative. It's I'm my own best teacher, which clearly is positive, and I can learn from even the best podcasts, or the best. I have the best of whatever I do, I can learn from that.   Elizabeth Louis ** 25:40 Spoken like a true optimist.   Michael Hingson ** 25:44 I love it. Oh, I've tended to be pretty optimistic in the world. Well, what you talk a lot about tough minded optimists. What is a tough minded optimist?   Elizabeth Louis ** 25:53 A tough minded optimist is an individual who is usually faith driven, courageous, they're strong minded, they're positive, decisive, confident and intentional. And they value treating people with that unconditional love, that kindness, that compassion and that encouragement, I think a lot of people forget that. You can be a tough individual, right? You can be strong, determined able to face while also creating a framework of unconditional love or kindness. A lot of times I'm learning with some of my clients that they think it's one or the other is that all or nothing thinking, which is a dangerous trap to fall in. But you can you can have two opposing truths, if you will coexist. And it's it's learning how to rely on your resilience. And that optimism that something it really expecting something good to happen in the future is going to be your reward and whatever you're pursuing.   Michael Hingson ** 26:49 Yeah, I think we oftentimes belt develop the wrong idea of what tough and tough mindedness needs to mean, I think it's resilient. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you're single minded to the point that you can't be open to other things and learn and grow from what you're doing. But you have to start somewhere.   Elizabeth Louis ** 27:08 Agree it and I also don't think it means being aggressive, like, negatively aggressive, you can be assertive and still loving. And so it's again that that it's coming from that intentionality of kindness. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 27:21 and love is something that is all around us and ought to be, I think, is Henry Drummond, who wrote the book, Love is the greatest thing in the world. It's a very short book, but it's a very relevant book, I think everyone should read because it, it talks about the fact that at the root of everything, love is really there.   Elizabeth Louis ** 27:39 It really it really is, you just have to look for it. And unfortunately, not a lot of people have been given love. They know performance, love, but they don't know the type of love that humans really require. Which is unfortunate, but true.   Michael Hingson ** 27:56 I talk about dogs a lot and talk about the fact that I do believe what people say that dogs love unconditionally. I don't think there's a question of that. I think that's in their makeup. They don't trust unconditionally, however. But the difference between dogs and what people have learned is that dogs are more open to developing a trusting relationship. And we tend to be, we could learn a lot from dogs in that, in that sense. Absolutely.   Elizabeth Louis ** 28:24 And we could take it a little bit further to you know, dogs don't have the best memory, obviously, their prefrontal cortex is only 7% of their brain, whereas humans are 25% Not that our prefrontal cortex is where our memories are stored. But you know, the one thing about memories and the way our brain works is, you can't your memories not accurate at the end of the day. And so so many people get so locked in their past, when they're remembering their memories different every single time they remember them. And so you have to learn how to just let him go, my friend and I have a saying that every time our dogs blink, it's a new day, because their memory is so short. And it's like that's kind of the attitude you have to take you have to learn how to forgive and move forward. Not to say you need to enable people who hurt you. I mean, there's boundaries, right? But it's really learning how to like let go and move forward and hope for the best your past does not define your future.   Michael Hingson ** 29:17 And that's really the issue your past can help you shape your future but that depends on how you choose to deal with it. Exactly.   Elizabeth Louis ** 29:24 And your overall I would say identity which is your you know your mindset, your lens and your and your language and how you see the world. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 29:34 And I think that all too often I think you're right we we allow our memories to surface and sometimes some pretty strange ways. I think that we can learn to look at our memories and we can learn to learn from our memories, but again, we don't tend to very easily go into a mode of at the end of the day. Do some introspection in our worlds   Elizabeth Louis ** 30:01 agree. And whenever I tell my whenever I have to do like trauma therapy with my clients, I remind them that you know how you're going to recall this traumatic memory is 100% Based on your self confidence, in your opinion of yourself today and the relations of these people. I mean, you cannot trust your memories, you can take insights and fine wisdoms and seeds in it. But you cannot accurately say that this memory is exactly what happened because your brain distorts it.   Michael Hingson ** 30:31 Oh, can you learn? Or can you learn to? And can you help your brain developed to be more accurate and really relaying memories to you?   Elizabeth Louis ** 30:40 There's things you can do to improve memory like, you know, older adults, it's really important for them to exercise at least three times a week. That is it has been proven to grow the hippocampus. But when it comes to like, accurate event memories, there's been a lot of interesting studies, you're not going to remember it effectively. There was this one study, and I can't remember who did it. But they they asked 14 year olds, what their life was like they asked him a series of questions about the quality of their life, the parenting, and were they faith based where they grown. And then they tracked them down in their 50s. And they asked them the same questions. And their answers completely contradicted. You know, the person who said they had a great childhood as an adult that they had a horrible childhood, the person who said I was raised as a Christian, as a child said, I was not raised as a Christian as an adult. And so your memories are really going to change based off of your perspective of life. So you really, you can't trust them. And really, the human brain was designed to not hold on to memories like that. But to be more Ford Focus, it's almost like a car, right? Like your windshield is the biggest window, you can see where the side side mirrors and the back mirror is very small for a reason, because we're supposed to be going forward, not backwards, right?   Michael Hingson ** 31:59 Well, I know that when I think about my childhood, personally, and I have always, I think had pretty vivid memories of growing up. I don't view my childhood differently than I used to. But I do think that I sometimes express it differently. Like, I learned braille when I was in kindergarten in Chicago, and then the next year, we moved to California, and I didn't have a Braille teacher, or any kind of blindness related kind of teachings, until I went into the fourth grade, because we moved to a pretty rural area. And there were no teachers around to teach any of those skills. I would say today that I was probably more bored during, especially kindergarten, and not necessarily as active as other people in the class because I couldn't read books out loud or be part of a lot of those activities. But I also know deep down, I wasn't really bored. I listened. Right. So I, I think about that. So I'm sure in some senses, I could say I was probably more bored. But I don't recall being bored. But I do recall that, you know, I didn't have the opportunity to participate just like anyone else did, until I got to the fourth grade. And that was exciting, because then Braille books started arriving, which helped. But I've always really tried to keep memories and work. And I as a speaker for the last 22 years, I love to go back and listen even to some of the earlier presentations that I've given. Because I think they're also closer to September 11, having worked in the World Trade Center on that day. And I think that the earlier experiences are closer to it. But I like to go back and listen and make sure that I'm not changing a story. Unless there's some reason to add value. And I've had a few of those were there, there was a reason to, to change part of the story and add some value to it. But the memories are still the same.   Elizabeth Louis ** 34:07 And some of those memories kind of more so border on facts of the overview, but when it comes to details of stuff, most of the time, you're inaccurate, and depending on you know what you've endured, you'll shift things. Memories. I mean, it's just not it's we're not supposed to spend that much time in our past. Right. Bringing your future into Your presence,   Michael Hingson ** 34:25 right. Yeah. And so when I think of the past, it's all about what did I learn that I can use and one of the things that I have fun doing is I talk to people often about making choices, and one of the speeches that I give is all about making choices and that your choices are water going to in large part determine the direction you go, and I can trace back a long way to choices that I made that got me to the World Trade Center and got me to where I am today. And I can also then look at those and say If I make a good choice was the bad choice. And at the end of the day, did it really matter? Because it was still the choice that I made? It   Elizabeth Louis ** 35:08 is true, right? Your choices are so important. It's it's definitely important to be intentional with a lot of choices.   Michael Hingson ** 35:18 Yeah. And I think it's, I think it's important to look at, again, yourself at the end of every day and see how you can grow and improve from it. Like I said, we're our own best teachers. Well, I have brain   Elizabeth Louis ** 35:31 Oh, sorry, no, go ahead. I was gonna say, well, the brain works best by reflection, discussion and movements. So one of the most powerful things you can do is intentionally reflect. I agree with that. I always reflect on my day at the end of the day, and I asked myself, Where can I? Where can I have been better? What did I learn? And how was I a champion today? Just to just to learn, right? I think reflection is so so powerful, because you, we're always learning, we're never gonna get life perfect.   Michael Hingson ** 36:01 What's the other side of it is not only what could I have done better, but in the things that really went, well, anything else I could have done to enhance it? And I don't mind asking myself that question. And hopefully, sometimes get an answer that says, yeah, here's something else you could have done.   Elizabeth Louis ** 36:16 Yeah. Or that awareness piece, right? Like, I think yesterday, I was slightly neurotic. And I like took a timeout and reflected like, Hey, why am I being neurotic and figured out the answer and move forward and re reoriented? And just, yeah, back to work?   Michael Hingson ** 36:31 How do you help teach somebody to be a tough minded optimist,   Elizabeth Louis ** 36:38 that's very much depends on where they are, and a little bit of their natural psychology. So one of the first things I do when I enroll a new client is I do a needs analysis. And it's where I get them to take four assessments. And I study and aggregate their data pretty aggressively to really have a thorough concept of who they are and how their mind thinks. And also the best way for me to teach them since that's so customizable, and one of the first things I look at as a psychometric assessment that scores them in 23, psychometrics, and there's actually a personality trait of tough mindedness that I look at as well as recognition and trust. And then their their ambition scores. And then from there, I kind of have to identify what's most impactful. For instance, if someone comes in and they have a very low score and trust, that tells me they're a pessimist, because trust and optimism are directly connected, just like low trust and pessimism are directly connected. So first, I have to increase their positive thinking, and usually their self efficacy. You've worked with a lot of high performers, maybe you've had this experience too, but some of them have very poor interpersonal traits. So they have low self esteem, they've got low self confidence, they're not very tough minded. They don't have the best ability at controlling their emotions and their temperament. And so first, you have to make sure the groundwork is done before we start building that first or second storey house. And then once we have the self efficacy and self confidence, and trust, strong, and we have their thinking more positive and their awareness grown, then it's teaching them how not to personalize things. And this is going to be very dependent on that thinking trap assessment. For instance, there is a thinking trap, that is called personalization, or discounting the positives. I want to know how quickly are they taking things to heart? Because let's be honest, Michael, like everyone has an opinion. And they're they all stink. They all say like, you don't have to agree with someone just because they say it. And that's why I look at that recognition score. Because I've learned high recognition, and sometimes even high nurturance can be a result of fear of man, meaning, you really see humans have the ability to affirm your worth, and you see them bigger than God or you might struggle codependency or peer pressure or people pleasing. And so we want to like take back power where power was never meant to be, if that makes sense. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 39:07 it does. It's interesting. It's interesting that you say that, that an optimist is usually a person that that tends to be very trusting or has a lot of trust. The other side of that, though, is oftentimes don't people misplaced trust? And is that is that a skill that we need to better learn? Well,   Elizabeth Louis ** 39:30 usually people who are misplacing their trust also have really high nurturance. And so they are that borderline codependent person that really is out of touch with their own emotions and wants to see the good in everything. So you have to have boundaries at the end of the day. I mean, I believe respecting people and always giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it's very easy to misplace your trust, especially if you come from trauma, I think, not to single out women but I just have seen it more in women Men, sometimes when there's been a woman who's had a traumatic past, they overshare. And it's like, stop, stop overly trusting people with your personal life, you have to learn some boundaries and learn that some of getting to know you is earned. You can't just blindly trust people and be foolish, there is a strategy, I guess we could argue to it.   Michael Hingson ** 40:21 Yeah, I think that's probably make some sense that, that it's all about boundaries. Again, it gets back to like with the dog being open to trust. And I probably tend to be a little bit more trusting than I should. But I also have learned that while that's the case, I also say, okay, ultimately, I'm going to be open to trusting this individual, and I want them to trust me. But I'm going to look at everything that happens between us and so on, in order to decide whether I can put my trust in this individual. And I should do that to learn whether I trust them, I'm going to trust them, or do they have some other agenda? And and that's a problem.   Elizabeth Louis ** 41:08 Exactly. And, you know, it's always important to reevaluate your relationships and who you're interacting with. Because sometimes you just gotta let people go, because it's not worth the energy. It's not worth the enabling them, right. And that's why you have to look at that high nurturance. Because those with high nurturance are more prone to enabling right there's a difference between forgiving and enabling. If someone keeps hitting you stop going back to them. You can forgive them from a distance. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 41:37 And that's the point you can forgive them. But you can do that from a distance. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, just like you don't have to, you don't have to go back and say, I forgive you just so they can punch you in the mouth. Exactly.   Elizabeth Louis ** 41:47 Like sometimes you have to learn how to love people from afar. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 41:52 but still, love is the important part. Yeah,   Elizabeth Louis ** 41:55 yeah. And you have to remember to and I think we don't do a good job, really in the world with this. But I think especially in America, love doesn't take away love freely gives. Whereas lust takes away. I always kind of chuckle when I get a client. They're like, they they're dating. Some of them like I'm so in love. I'm like, it's three months, it's three months, come on, you don't really know him that well, that last phase can last for about 24 months is what research this.   Michael Hingson ** 42:21 When my wife and I decided to get married, we met in January of 1982. And in July, I proposed we, we we didn't talk a whole lot from January to probably the middle of March. And then we started talking more. She was a travel agent and I traveled I needed to travel to Hawaii, I needed to travel to Hawaii for some sales work that I needed to do in May. So I took my parents along. Karen was a travel agent. So she did our tickets and all that. And I just made the decision kind of on the way over I wanted to keep in touch with her and I called her twice a day from Hawaii. And that was fun. But in July, we propose I proposed and we got married in November. But we both have talked about that a lot since and what we decided was, we really knew from our own points of view what we wanted in a person. She was 33. I was 32. I would love to say I taught her everything. But you know, but but we were old enough that we approached it from the standpoint and we really knew what we wanted in a person. And it worked out for 40 years. Unfortunately, she passed this past November, but we were married 40 years. That's   Elizabeth Louis ** 43:36 amazing. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a big difference. You know, when I was saying that comment I was moreso thinking of, yeah, like clients who are serial daters who fall in love very quickly, in their mind's eye, right? You know, every girl or man they they get, it's like I'm in love. And I'm like, we need to maybe get you really clear on what she wants. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 43:58 And I know some people who are near my age who are and even and even, like 10 years younger, and they just decide they don't want to be alone, and they're off dating other people and all that. And that's fine. I think for me, I'm not sure that there would be a lot of relevance in in dating. And besides that, I know my wife is keeping an eye on me if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it.   Elizabeth Louis ** 44:24 Yeah. Well, and I think really what we're saying without saying it is the intention is so different, right? You know, it sounds like you and your late wife wanted to really create a partnership, whereas these people who are dating because they don't want to be alone. That's really a selfish reason of dating at the end of the day, you really stop and think about it.   Michael Hingson ** 44:43 Yeah, it is. And the reality is, that's going back to you instead of a Wii. And maybe sometimes it sort of works, but is it really working? Because if you're doing it just because you want to be you don't want to be alone. That's the problem. Blum,   Elizabeth Louis ** 45:00 it really is. And it's I'm going to also say it's not going to last, which is enforced right now. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 45:08 And it won't something is going to happen. Or if it if it lasts, it's going to be tumultuous. Oh,   Elizabeth Louis ** 45:16 gosh, yes. Yeah. I mean, you were married for quite a bit time. I mean, it takes selflessness to be in a successful relationship.   Michael Hingson ** 45:23 Yeah. But it is so much fun. Yeah,   Elizabeth Louis ** 45:27 yes, it really is. When you meet the right person and you yourself are healthy, it can be so rewarding.   Michael Hingson ** 45:33 Yeah. works out really well. Well, talking about the whole business of tough minded optimist, and so on again. The reality is we've we've discussed a lot about adversity and things that are a challenge in life. How does a tough minded optimists deal with adversity as opposed to other people? I gather, we're saying that the tough minded optimist is the way to go. I   Elizabeth Louis ** 45:57 think so I might, you might be biased to that.   Michael Hingson ** 46:03 Maybe we shouldn't talk about it. Just kidding. Yeah, what the heck it makes for a good podcast. Right?   Elizabeth Louis ** 46:08 You know, most of the time. pessimist are just so easily defeated by adversity. And they fall into a huge spiral of self pity and even depression, which is, you know, a big, big umbrella. But what I've learned is the tough minded optimist, sees adversity as an opportunity to increase their character, their endurance, endurance, to grow, their faith, their hope, their belief, you know, they see these negative events as minor setbacks to be easily overcome and view positive events as evidence of further good things to come. Right. So it's not about like, pursuing the materialism. It's, it's about sharpening their skills in developing their character developing their endurance more, so that they can have just a better outcome, right? It's just it's an opera. It's like a trial right here. It's like, here's your opportunity to fight like a gladiator. Are you going to win? Are you going to lose? Are you going to be tough? You're going to do it? Are you going to sit there and complain? It's kind of am I allowed to cuss? Because I don't like to cuss but it's kind of like shit or get off the pie. Right? This is what you're facing. Let's make the best of it and see it as a challenge, not as a problem.   Michael Hingson ** 47:20 Yeah. And, of course, that gets back to the whole issue of optimism. If you regard everything as a problem. You're never going to grow. Oh,   Elizabeth Louis ** 47:30 and you're gonna have a crappy life. Because let's be real, you're gonna go from one problem to one problem. Life is rarely smooth sailing. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 47:39 So what does that get you? There's nothing wrong with challenges. It's all a question of how we deal with it and how we decide to approach life. I've always regarded life as an adventure. Like I regard the internet as a treasure trove of adventure. It's, it's, you know, there's the dark web and all that I appreciate that and have no interested in ever accessing it. If I have, I don't know what, and that's fine. But it's such an adventurous process to be able to deal with so much information. Rather than I have to have all of this information at my fingertips. I like the adventure.   Elizabeth Louis ** 48:15 Yeah, and you know, what I love you, you shared there, this kind of goes back to curiosity, you know, that have to is such a perfectionistic mindset, right? You know, you desire to know all the knowledge versus that growth mindset of curiosity, and what's out there. I mean, I don't know how I don't know how people found information in the olden days. Now, I love encyclopedias. But you can just do it so much faster on the internet, and I will spend hours just researching and being curious and just learning because it's just so fascinating. All the things out there. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 48:49 and there's so much and it's growing every day. Now, the unfortunate part is that most of the websites that are out there are not very accessible to people who are blind or who have a lot of other disabilities. It's like 98% of all websites, which is what accessibility helps to eliminate. But that also is an area of growth, where I think over time, we will recognize that we need to be more inclusive in presenting information so everyone has access to it. But it does tend to be a problem because again, we deal with the eye instead of the US. I   Elizabeth Louis ** 49:20 would agree. And in fact, Michael I didn't even think about that, which I feel horrible, but I'm gonna admit it until I met you and then I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to fix my website so that it's more accessible to everyone because that was something I had never even it was like out of sight out of mind as much as I don't want to admit that.   Michael Hingson ** 49:36 Well. I use out of sight out of mind all the time. I have a whole bunch of boxes a thin mints here at the house. I support the Girl Scouts, but a lot of them are in the freezer and a lot of them are up on a shelf and unless I happen to think about it, or happen to touch one of the boxes out of sight out of mind and they will be up there so I have a stash   Elizabeth Louis ** 50:02 I'm going to come to your house.   Michael Hingson ** 50:04 We have plenty of Thin Mints, and and venture fools and they're available. Like I said, supporting the Girl Scouts is an important thing to do, but they don't get eaten very fast. And so I've worked at keeping a decent weight. Oh, that's   Elizabeth Louis ** 50:18 good. Because excuse. That's your, that's your excuse for sticking to it like it. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 50:23 that's it. That's it. But it's but you know, but it's, but it's interesting that we really look at things in such interesting ways. And I and I hope that we'll all grow to be a little bit more open to the the weak concept, but it is a it is a challenge and it's in it's a skill that we need to learn. And I love your whole concept of tough minded optimist, because it's a skill. And it is something that anyone can develop if we work at it,   Elizabeth Louis ** 50:53 when it's actually easier to be optimistic than pessimistic. Because let's be real, if fear felt good. Like we would do it more but feel fear, like we're not wired for fear. That's why it feels horrible. Whereas Love feels amazing. And so many of the pessimists out there are just bringing so much stress and anxiety onto their beings, when they don't have to like at some point, you have to learn how to focus on what's in your control and let go of everything else. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 51:26 absolutely. The most important thing, and I think the most important concept that any of us could learn in today's world is don't worry about what you can't control focus on what you can't because it'll not drive you crazy to do that.   Elizabeth Louis ** 51:40 I would agree. Last year, I went to a nurse psychotherapy training with some elite Ivy League professors and I was so excited to like nerd out with them because I specialize in neuro psychotherapy. So as a neuropsychologist conference, I apologize. And I was really excited to hear the like technicality and the jargon. And the biggest takeaway from one of the professor's was just like you have to learn how to control what you can control and let go of everything else. That is the biggest skill and the biggest freedom and I was just like, I'm so in agreement to that. But I was really expecting more nerdiness but I'll take it.   Michael Hingson ** 52:16 Picky, picky, picky, right   Elizabeth Louis ** 52:18 to write but it but that's the thing. Life is so much more simpler, then so many humans want to realize,   Michael Hingson ** 52:26 yeah, it is just not that complicated. Now, I understand that it isn't necessarily easy to do. I have groused on this podcast a few times about weather prognosticators. So we had such rain and snow. even close to me, we live in a valley. So we got two inches of snow one Saturday afternoon. And that was the biggest snowstorm we had. So the kids didn't even get a snow day. But ski resorts within 30 miles of us that were five and six and 7000 feet higher than than we were. And they got a lot of snow. Okay, I appreciate that. And it was so much though that the some buildings collapsed and all that. And people were complaining about that. Then we got into May and all I kept hearing from all the weather people was May gray and June Gloom, it's gonna be cloudy and and you know, when are we going to get the sunshine and I'm sitting there going. You don't want to talk about the rest of what happens when we get all that sunshine, which is like 100 plus degrees and wildfires. Now we have 100 plus degrees of wildfires. And they're complaining that we're going to have to put up with his heat for so long. You can't ever   Elizabeth Louis ** 53:36 please. No. But you know what, those people are pessimistic at the end of the day. Look at their focus. It's negative.   Michael Hingson ** 53:42 Yeah, that's exactly the point is it's all negative. And it isn't doing any good. They have forgotten how to report and they want to put all this pessimism into it, which is so frustrating. Yeah, I hope people who are listening to happen to do the weather and you'll think about doing it differently in the future. Right? You're gonna say,   Elizabeth Louis ** 54:01 Oh, I don't even remember anymore. I would agree. I stopped watching the news and especially the weather. Now I just like look at the radar. And I still have the same beliefs with the radar, as I do with the people because I mean, they're given it their best guess they could they could verbalize it with with optimism. But you know what the Newton. I mean, you've been around when the news went off. You know where it wasn't 24/7 the tone of the news has become more and more negative. And obviously, sensationalism sells, but like, I guess I'm still baffled that people are willing to accept it when it's like we know that this is their tone is negative. It's you're not going to hear great things.   Michael Hingson ** 54:48 Once again, we're lowering our standards.   Elizabeth Louis ** 54:50 Yeah, very well said my drop.   Michael Hingson ** 54:54 It's It's pretty amazing. And it's so unfortunate that that it has to be that way. And you're right I do Do appreciate that sensationalism sells. But there are ways to present it. And then there are ways that maybe it shouldn't be presented. And I think that the media has an obligation to teach. And it's just unfortunate that they've not learned about how to teach. I   Elizabeth Louis ** 55:17 used to work in the news, it's, it's it's such a business as it's gone. 24/7 And it used to be there, they would, they would teach, and they would share objectively and allow you to draw your own conclusions. Now, it's like, this is what you have to think. And if you don't think with it, if you don't agree, then you're wrong. You know, we don't have the ability to hold opposing truths anymore, like we used to, it's the lack of respect has decreased, I think we've   Michael Hingson ** 55:48 forgotten how to have conversations to   Elizabeth Louis ** 55:52 or like the fact that we could be friends, even if we have opposing opinions. Yeah. It's possible, the   Michael Hingson ** 56:01 founder of the National Federation of the Blind, Dr. Jacobus tenBroek, and his wife were from opposite political parties. Yet, they never divorced. You know, the you can disagree. And you know, there were things that my wife and I disagreed about. And I know other people who have have long running marriages, and they, they can disagree, and that's part of what really makes a neat marriage is that you can disagree, you know, you can disagree. And it's okay. Because back to what teamwork and Teaming is all about?   Elizabeth Louis ** 56:38 Well, and, and I think, too, one of the reasons I believe that so many people who are my age are struggling with staying married or staying in committed relationships is because a lot of us weren't taught how to regulate our emotions, or how to suck it up butterfly, right. We were allowed to just quit when the going got hard. And to think that you're going to fully agree with someone 100% of the time, it's just foolishness. I mean, your perspective is different than everyone else's. So to think you'll agree all the time is silly. But I think if we could teach kids how to regulate their emotions, and maybe not coddle them so much, we might have some different outcomes. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 57:20 And the other part about it is if if you agreed all the time, it'd be pretty boring. Right? It'd be a challenge. Right? I would agree. So it's okay to differ a little. I   Elizabeth Louis ** 57:34 would agree, you know, and, I mean, also, most of what we talked about is opinions. Even science is a theory and for whatever, you know, first aid for theory, a theory B contradicts it. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 57:48 And then when something comes along, and we really can prove it, what a joy. Right, exactly. So what do you do when you're not being a high performance coach?   Elizabeth Louis ** 58:01 Oh, I love learning. Learning is something that I find so enjoyable. I love teaching, and I love exercising. My faith is really important to me. My puppy is really important to me. He's not a puppy, but he's a puppy.   Michael Hingson ** 58:17 What kind?   Elizabeth Louis ** 58:18 He's a Shih Tzu mix with a poodle. It's called a sheep.   Michael Hingson ** 58:21 A sheep. Ooh, yeah. Yeah. They   Elizabeth Louis ** 58:24 are apparently popular now. But he's, he's about 13. He's, he's the apple of my life.   Michael Hingson ** 58:32 I have a seven year old black lab guide dog and a 13 and a half year old cat who runs the house? Yes. Yes,   Elizabeth Louis ** 58:40 I bet. I bet. I bet it's um, it's funny. My I went to church this last Sunday, and there was this little short moment about cats and dogs and cats believe they are God. And dogs see their owner as God. Yeah. That's so accurate. It   Michael Hingson ** 59:00 is absolutely so true. And you know, that's okay. My cat loves to get petted while she eats. She's developed this, and she'll yell at me until I come and pet her while she's eating less. And most of the time, it's okay. But she has also developed a little bit of a nap to try to get me to come in when I'm eating and I have started to push back a little bit and say stitch I'm eating. I'll be there when I'm done.   Elizabeth Louis ** 59:27 Good for you.   Michael Hingson ** 59:30 We got it. But you know, if she really wants me that badly, then she can come out and tell me rather than yelling from the bedroom.   Elizabeth Louis ** 59:36 It's so my dog is like a husky in the sense of he's very talkative like that, too. And he has to have the last word and he and I will do a little bit of what it sounds like you and your cat do and I'm like, my dog's name some movement when I'm like, Man, we'll just chill buddy.   Michael Hingson ** 59:53 Alamo the lab is absolutely wonderful and tends to just put up with anything and doesn't complain A bit. I have yet to hear him bark. And we've been together since February of 2018. But but he loves attention and he thinks he's a lap dog. If you sit on the floor, he's going to be in your lap and he's not going to

Marsha Vanwynsberghe grew up in Ontario Canada and still lives there today. I met her a few months ago when I was invited to be a guest on her podcast, Own Your Choices Own Your Life. My team at Amplifyou, located in British Columbia, arranged my appearance and then, as is only fair, I asked them to help get Marsha to join me on Unstoppable Mindset. We had a fabulous conversation discussing everything from why more people don't share their own stories to how we, Marsha and I, learned to tell our own stories and how we help others to grow as they discover more about themselves.   Marsha worked for a company for some 26 years while, as she discovered, learned a lot about coaching. She also faced her own life challenges as she will tell us. In 2020 the company employing her closed its doors. By that time Marsha realized how much coaching of others she already was doing. She started her own coaching program. As I said, she also has been operating her own podcasts which I urge you to find, of course after listening to Unstoppable Mindset.   Marsha shows us the value of learning about facing our own inner selves and learning to tell our own stories. She discusses how many of her clients, through discussing their own experiences, have become more confident and how they have learned to be better persons in their own skins.     About the Guest:   Marsha Vanwynsberghe — Storytelling NLP Trainer, Speaker, Publisher & Author, 2xs Podcaster   Marsha is the 6-time Bestselling Author of “When She Stopped Asking Why”.  She shares her lessons as a parent who dealt with teen substance abuse that tore her family unit apart. Marsha has been published 7xs, most recently with her co-platform, Every Body Holds A Story, and she is on a mission to continue to help women and men to speak, share and publish their stories.  Through her tools, OUTSPOKEN NLP certification, programs, coaching, and podcast, Marsha teaches the power of Radical Responsibility and Owning Your Choices in your own life.  She empowers people how to heal and own their stories, be conscious leaders and build platform businesses that create massive impact.     Ways to connect with Marsha:   Website: https://www.marshavanw.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marshavanw/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/marsha.vanwynsberghe Linkedin: NLP Trainer, Storytelling Trainer, Speaker, Podcaster, Author - Marsha Vanwynsberghe Coaching | LinkedIn Podcast Link: Own Your Choices Own Your Life https://apple.co/3h2Jcti YouTube: https://bit.ly/3Dmk75q TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@marshavanw     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi all and welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity in the unexpected meet and who knows what else? Oh, that's the unexpected part. Sorry. Anyway, we're really glad you're here. And today, we get to have the opportunity to chat with a person who is a storytelling NLP trainer, a best selling author, a speaker, and a 2x s podcaster, among other things. And on top of that, she's very open about telling stories, which is great. I love people who want to tell stories. I've been in sales for a long time, and I learned that the best salespeople know how to tell good, true stories. That's another story, but we won't worry about it right now. But anyway, I'd like you all to meet Marsha Vanwynsberghe. My screen reader pronounced van winchburgh. But she was impressed by that it was pretty close. But it's van Weinsberg. And Marcia, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:17 Thank you so much for having me, Michael, I'm thrilled to be here. Well, it's   Michael Hingson ** 02:21 an honor to have you and I was on marshes podcast on your choice on your life. And that was a lot of fun. And I told her that the price for me being on was that she had to come on unstoppable mindset. And she was willing. So here we are,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:36 well, I jumped at the invitation I just jumped   Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Well, it's fun, and it's great to share. And it's it's great to get to know people and and get to know them even more when we get to do it the other way. And hopefully we'll do more things together as well. And love that. I would absolutely love that. Well tell us a little bit about kind of the early Marsha growing up and all that sort of stuff. It's always a great place to start.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 02:59 It is the early Marsha. So I was born in 1970. And I say that because um, you know, in that time and era, kids were to be seen and not heard. Yeah, I was very, I was very outspoken as a child. And I have pretty strong personality. And a I use my voice a lot. And back then we used to tell or we used to hear that, again, be seen and not heard. And I often think back to you know if if young girls, we can tell them that those are leadership skills and not bossy skills. It's there's a lot of things that I learned as a child, but I mean, I grew up with a family who we moved a few times. And my dad he started a business that continued to grow. So I really grew up around entrepreneurship, and finding and carving your own way and building resiliency. You know, working from a young age I was my first jobs were at 1213. So I grew up in that era of like, work hard. That mindset.   Michael Hingson ** 04:12 Where did you Where were you born and where did you come from?   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 04:15 I was born in Chatham, Ontario. Yep. And then we moved up near a it's kind of farm area but near Woodstock Tillsonburg area for people who might know, in Ontario and I've lived it. I've been in Ontario my whole life. But that's where I was. I was born in the city and then I was moved to a farm which I really did not like my parents for that at the time. I didn't know it, but honestly the best move we ever did, but then I've lived within that vicinity for since then.   Michael Hingson ** 04:49 Didn't you want a pony? I   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 04:51 did not. I did not. I worked in tobacco as a kid. I was not. I was definitely I had farm jobs I was I was a hard worker.   Michael Hingson ** 05:04 Well, I suppose the benefit is that you learned to be a hard worker. And that's a good thing, although tobacco but of course that was then this is now. So it's a whole lot different environment. So very   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 05:17 different environment now, like that was definitely what we did then, for jobs. But I also at the same time it put me through school, that's how I paid for school, and I was able to, you know, go with that time. But yeah, it's a very different era, that is not something that you see very much of anymore, thank goodness, it's still there. But as we'll see it very much.   Michael Hingson ** 05:38 I love to collect and listen to old radio shows from the 30s 40s and 50s. And so on one of the shows, I really like a lot is dragnet. And the reason I mentioned that is that dragnet for a while in the 50s, was sponsored by Fatima cigarettes. And it was fascinating listening to the commercials, statistics, prove Fatima cigarettes are better for you, and more like than any other cigarette, and of course, that's all they would ever say, Where are the statistics? But you know, that was advertising back then, too.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 06:13 It was advertising. It makes me nervous when you hear things like that, like the things that we thought were okay, not even okay, but that they were good for us. Yeah, we're not obviously not.   Michael Hingson ** 06:25 I think at the same time today, some people would say, well, we should get rid of all that stuff. We shouldn't allow that. It's just not true. And the reality is, my belief is no, we shouldn't it's part of our history. And we need to recognize from whence we came.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 06:39 I think that's how we learn lessons. And we move forward. I mean, it's not perfect. There's still definitely a lot of issues, even health wise that I see now. But no, I agree with you. I don't think I think that is part of history. I think that is part of of history and what we walked through, and I mean, hopefully we continue to learn and do better, right and do better and make different choices, etc. But that's definitely what marketing was, then.   Michael Hingson ** 07:08 Yeah, and it still is somewhat today, there's more than anything fear in marketing, Oh, me, sure you buy our car warranty service before your check engine light goes on, and just so many different things, we, we still have a lot of things to address at some point, although that isn't really necessarily being dishonest, but we still use fear a lot. And politicians use fear so much to completely distort the reality of what we ought to be doing, which is to analyze what they say, for ourselves, rather than just living in fear. And oh, someone said, this is true. So it must be so I   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 07:48 love that you said that. I really do. Because I feel like in some sense. We're losing the I don't want to say it's the ability because it's not the ability, but we're losing the practice of like distorted thinking and asking questions. And it's just, it's not to disagree, but I think that we should be asking questions and, and asking for, you know, doing some of our own research and looking and, and not just not just taking the advice without asking any questions. Yeah. And that's   Michael Hingson ** 08:23 the real issue. And, and just the whole art of conversation seems to have gone by the, by the wayside in so many ways, especially with, and I'm not going to get too political, but a lot of the politicians all around, is it's all about trust me Do as I say not as I do. And we're encouraged not to ask questions, which is so unfortunate.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 08:47 It's scary. Actually. I think it's actually scary. Because I think that I think anytime that I am encouraged or questioned not to ask questions. If I go back to my nature, as I talked when I was younger, then that's the first thing I do. Yes. Very first thing I do. I'm like, huh, that doesn't feel right. That's   Michael Hingson ** 09:07 and, you know, we, we let we let some people just steer us so much one of my favorite gripes of late is weather people out here in California. In May and June, we had a lot of marine layers and a lot of clouds and so on. So people were always complaining, the weather prognosticators were complaining about May gray and June gloom. Will it ever end? Yet? The reality is it kept the temperatures down. Now we're getting away from all of that. And we're up at like 95 or 96 Fahrenheit today. We were yesterday as well. And oh, what's happening? Now we're starting to see wildfires and we're hearing about why we have wildfires. And we're going to be in the fire season. And isn't that horrible? Well, you wished You wished it all on us? Because you didn't like may grand June gloom. I mean, we can't please anybody anymore.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 10:05 No. And it's interesting because I always like, I think, to look to go back to gratitude in some way, shape or form, as a Canadian who literally only has like three to four months a year that are nice, where it's warm. I mean, I couldn't even imagine being upset about made like, yeah, it's just perspective, right? It's a perspective, I look for the things to be grateful for.   Michael Hingson ** 10:29 Yeah. And you know, what, the May grand June Gloom did keep things cool. Hardly any fires. I heard on the news this morning. There were four, although relatively small, and they were caught quickly, because we're getting better at dealing with it here. Small wildfires that helicopters and tankers dealt with very quickly. But nevertheless, now we're seeing it. And it's so unfortunate, we can't, we can never be satisfied.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 10:59 No, and I actually we don't have a lot of experience that within Ontario, where I live like other parts of Canada do. But this year, we definitely got the effects of the what we were surrounded by wildfires and the like, not literally, but the smoke came in. And we probably had about two weeks where, you know, it was yellow skies, it was hard to breathe. It had moments where it was really challenging. So it really did give a perspective of you know, I had people here who were saying like, this is just absolutely horrible. And like, it's not great, but I mean, we could be in the fire, like, yeah, not like it's still I can still go outside. It's still safe. It's not ideal, but I guess my brain, I'm looking at it going. I mean, I'm not in the fire. So it could be much worse.   Michael Hingson ** 11:46 Do we know where the fires came from? And we had them on both   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 11:50 sides. We had them on our east coast. So in Nova Scotia had, and then Calgary has a really bad beginning of May. So they kind of came from both ways.   Michael Hingson ** 12:03 Do we know what caused them yet?   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 12:05 Nope. Nothing I've heard.   Michael Hingson ** 12:09 That's unfortunate. But, you know, the other side of it is was it was it really warm? Was that also part of it? Well,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 12:15 I watched the interview, it was interesting, because I did watch with a lot of friends who were firefighters and I watched an interview with a firefighter who said that we had very like our snow was we had a very heavy winter, and the snow was gone early April. And then we had a lot of rain the beginning of April. And then it got really hot for about two weeks, and then it got dry, super dry. And it was just the perfect condition. They said it's absolutely a perfect condition for it to happen. So I think that's I don't remember a year like this that we sub assuming that was part of it.   Michael Hingson ** 12:51 See down here with all of the marine layers and so on, and the fact that I don't know whether it's all gone, but as of the beginning of July, there was still snow on the ground in some parts of California, like the, the mountain areas and so on. And we didn't have hot, dry May, or mostly all we had no hot dry June. So now we're starting to see it. And I can understand that. And that would and I was always wondering, well, why did Canada get the fires that it did that sent the smoke everywhere? But it makes sense with what you're describing? Yeah, very similar   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 13:29 to what you said, like we ended up it was very, very hot in the US, not it not normal at all. And then we had no rain until almost the end of May, early June. So it was very, it was very strange spring for us. Now we had lots of rain since then. But it's okay. It's like actually cleared up there to be honest. So I take it again, it's perspective.   Michael Hingson ** 13:51 It is. It's all about perspective, which makes a lot of sense. Well, so getting back to you and all that. So you went to college.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 14:01 I went to university here and I actually took I became a registered Kinesiologist. So I worked and post physical rehab for about 28 years. And over the last couple of years before I was done in that career, which ended very abruptly during 2020 and never came back until like probably eight or nine months later. And by that I knew the business had pretty much dissolved itself. And so I did that for I spent about 20 years and I did love it. I like the problem solving, like the thinking and the helping people. I had some people we were learning how to walk again, like that week post recovering from surgery. And then really as that time wore on, and my life was walking through some different challenges. Then I started to work into a space of like what Learning how to share stories and navigate a really difficult time. And so when the pandemic came, I actually just pivoted, went right into coaching online and supporting people online. And I felt like it had been like a complete out of nowhere. But it hadn't. I mean, out of the 20 years in working with physical rehab, I did a lot of coaching, I had to do an awful lot of coaching and supporting with people. So it was very similar.   Michael Hingson ** 15:30 So when did he start involving yourself in the whole concept of NLP and bringing that into what you did. So   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 15:37 I actually did things very backwards. I, if I'll take it back to a little bit, about 1012 years ago, we started to experience teen substance abuse, I found my world get really, really small, and I lost my voice didn't know how to use it. And I really started to do a lot of work to learn how to, you know, reframe my thoughts and catch my what I was thinking and the words that I was saying, for probably three years, I was doing the beginning pieces of NLP without ever knowing that was NLP, I had no idea. And in 2020, it crossed my path. And I looked at it and when that's interesting, there was something about it that was intriguing to me, is learning to understand the power of my thoughts and how I my brain works and how to get it to my thoughts to actually support me and what I am creating. And what I want to do. The other piece that really intrigued me with NLP was that the way it was taught for me was that there was a lot of ways to support myself in healing. And I say that because I really didn't understand how we hold on to so much. I mean, trauma stress in our tissues in our body, and we push that down and we carry it for years, the LP tools helped me to really start to learn how to release that. And that helped me to work through some of the healing. So had I learned that earlier, I think that it would have actually really supported me earlier. But we all know that the teacher comes when we're ready, and I probably wouldn't have been ready, and I probably wouldn't have seen it, and I wouldn't have understood it. So it all happened in the timing that it was meant to happen.   Michael Hingson ** 17:24 He told me a little bit about what NLP is what it stands for, and all of that, especially for those who who may not be very knowledgeable about it.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 17:33 Absolutely. It is called neuro linguistic programming. It's really the so neuro how we bring in our information, we all bring it into a number of our different senses. The linguistic is like the language, the words that we speak, the programs that we speak, how we be are able to take in that information and like delete, distort, generalize, put it together. And then the programs is really how we all function. Most of us, this is how it works. Our conscious mind is only responsible for like 5% of our thoughts, our beliefs, our decisions. And we set our goal with our conscious mind. Our subconscious mind is like the wheel that's never stopping. It's running on autopilot, nonstop. And most of us, we go into this space, this learning space, personal development space, helping others, we try and set goals for ourselves. And we do it with 5% of our capacity. But we're never addressing the stories, the limiting beliefs, the things that we have, that we're holding on to that keep blocking us. And then what happens is, is that you set a goal, you work like crazy to get to it. And you might just find fall shy of it. Or if you do achieve it, but you don't believe that you're worthy of receiving it. You'll self sabotage, you'll lose it you will keep on this cycle of always trying to strive and achieve more. And as you do that, it's just it, we put ourselves on that hamster wheel nonstop. And really, it's not the goal. That's the problem. It's Do we believe in ourselves to achieve the goal that is really what we want to work towards. And with so many of us who again, we've carried these stories in our bodies for so long. You can't just work harder to make something happen. It's sometimes you have to go backwards and figure out what it is that has been holding you back so that you can actually move towards your goals in a more aligned and effortless manner.   Michael Hingson ** 19:46 One of the things that I find often and I've worked to get away from this but is that we don't tend to do much introspection, especially on a daily basis. We don't take Take time at the end of the day to look at what happened. Not and I don't like to use the word fail, because I think it's all about learning experiences. But what didn't go as well as it could? How do I make it better next time? What went really well? And what can I do to even improve that, and really pondering and thinking about what happened in the course of the day, and we don't, we don't do that we don't talk to ourselves, we don't talk with ourselves. And we really just figure Oh, I don't have time I got too much other stuff to do. So listening to you describe NLP really does in part go back to you've got to be your own best teacher and really learn how to do these things. I   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 20:40 couldn't agree with you more I really couldn't. I think this is the big thing is that we're on a journey of always learning to lead ourselves. That's what I believe. I think that we're learning always learning to lead ourselves. And one of the number one premise of NLP is to live out cause in your life. And that is, we can either live at cause or live in effect. When we live in effect. We are in a space in a mindset of victim mindset, anger, blame, resentment, all of those emotions. I lived there for a really long time. I think all of us at one point in their life have lived there. But when we stay there, we don't. We don't create change. When we live at cause we come to a space of saying like, how can that introspection you're talking about? How can I, you know, look at what went well, today? What's not going well? And one of the first things I'll do, I have moments sometimes where I'm like, well, Marsha, I'm really not really proud of how you're behaving right now, or what is going on with you acting this way. And it almost always comes down to if I'm completely honest, I have a moment of introspection, and I'm like, Okay, wow, you're not doing the things that you need to take care of you. You are not putting the boundaries in place, you're not getting the rest. Okay, so now how can we put that plan in place, and it's like a calibration that comes back to regularly being in that space of taking responsibility for myself, so that I can best lead myself, never about perfection. But there is I'm in a constant conversation with myself all day long. And when things are going right, when I could maybe do something differently, when I'm working to, you know, maybe celebrate something that I'm doing that is a challenge. I think that that piece of self awareness and introspection, is I don't want to call it a lost art. But it's not something that we're making time for on a continuum.   Michael Hingson ** 22:42 Yeah, we're not at all. I love to, to joke and tell people, you know, when we talk about talking to ourselves, and so on and say, Well, do you get answers? When the reality is, of course, that the more we do, the more we do it, the more we will get answers. And the one I'm going to worry is when I don't get an answer. Yes,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 23:03 yes, I'm with you. I am with you on that.   Michael Hingson ** 23:08 Because we are Yeah, well, we really need to learn to communicate with our heart with ourselves and, and understand, as I have learned to tell people, I used to say I'm my own worst critic. And I've learned that's a horrible thing to say, it's really I'm my own best teacher, because I'm the only one who can really teach me other people can advise and give me information, but I'm the one that has to learn it. And I'm the one that has to teach it to me.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 23:36 I love that you've said that. Because I think that that's a really powerful reframe. And I think that's noticing that comes from a lot of the NLP training is learning how to reframe thoughts. But that's a really powerful reframe, because I have called myself my own worst critic for most of my life. I have and and it's interesting because, you know, there's, there's, there is an advantage, they do want to share one thing quickly, because in the area that I work in, where I help people with vulnerable stories, how to share, show them set, like show up, be seen user voice, one of the biggest things people are constantly afraid of, I would say one of the number one fears is what will people think of me? It's It's amazing. It is the number one fear, what will people think of me? And I often ask people like, well, what are some of the thoughts that you have about yourself? What do you say about yourself? Because I think when we really break it down, there's no one who's criticizing us nearly as bad as what we're doing to ourselves. And so when you start to see that, it's like, Wait, why am I giving all of this energy to what everyone else is saying? When really, I spend 24/7 with myself and my thoughts and what I'm saying to myself is never going to help me move forward. So that's the first piece of it. The second piece is that I think, again, my opinion but ever Every relationship that we build outside of ourselves comes from us first. So I can't be a really nice, I genuinely believe this, I can't go out and be a very nice human to everyone else and be an absolute piece of garbage to myself, because that is it's not authentic, that's not authentic at all. And so I think that if you want to create change in your life, even externally, with relationships, friends, whatever that is, it really does start with learning how to be a better human to yourself.   Michael Hingson ** 25:34 Yeah, and you've got to learn to like yourself, and if you don't, then find out why. And it's okay to find out why. And the reality is own ultimately, people can make observations to you, but only you can really tell you why the two of you aren't getting along.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 25:54 Because I'm my best teacher, I love it. You said that I just, that's a beautiful reframe week, and we can be our best teacher and I am with you in the sense that I actually don't, I rarely use the word failure, because I don't like the connotation with it. Because I think everything is teaching us something. And we get to look at that is that well, that taught me something. Now, if I choose to make the same choice over and over and over, and I'm angry with everyone else in my life, there comes a point where I have to recognize that I'm the common denominator. So what can I do differently? How can I choose differently? How can I surround myself with different people? And then I'm learning the lessons that I'm here to learn. But I really think that we're on a constant cycle of learning.   Michael Hingson ** 26:43 I love Albert Einstein's definition of insanity, which is that people who do the same thing the same way every time and expect a different result, certainly are not all there. No.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 26:57 And I mean, I listen, I've caught myself, there have been many times in my life where I've caught myself, and I'm frustrated with something or something that's happening. And it will be like, Wait, this is the exact same response that happens every single time. Yeah. And that's when it's like, no, so why would I possibly expect something different? Like why would i That doesn't make any sense. And I can catch it and work on that reframe. But again, this goes back to having this dialogue with myself with ourselves on a daily basis.   Michael Hingson ** 27:28 What we tend to not understand or don't want to understand is that there really are basic laws that we live by and should live by. And if you are within those laws or not, but if you're doing something and you do it the same way, every time, you're gonna get the same result. And you have to decide whether you want that result.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 27:50 And if you don't, then something different is required of you, in order to create a different result. We do live I know people don't like that. But we do live the same lessons over and over until we learn the lesson, like do the same experiences over and over until we learn the lessons. And   Michael Hingson ** 28:08 unfortunately, it happens time and time again, generation and generation again. And somehow we've got to do a better job of really learning that you've got to do things different if you want a different result when we were talking earlier about the whole issue of growing up and, and learning and recognizing what we learn and all that and like banning books, you know, we're getting away from understanding history. And so what are we doing? We're banning books, we're getting rid of the lessons or the places where we could get great lessons for poor excuses for banning the books in the first place. Yes,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 28:51 I have a hard time understanding all of that not not to get like not getting political. I just have a really hard time understanding that we're just going to we did make mistakes in past 100% We made and we're still making them today. But banning things and ignoring it like it never happened, then we're not pulling lessons from that we're not learning something from that. I don't think that anything it I don't think it's beneficial to pretend that things didn't happen. I think we some very valuable lessons from some very big mistakes in history.   Michael Hingson ** 29:26 Well, people have said that Dr. Seuss was a racist. And so we shouldn't be banning his books. Is that good justification for banning all the good things and all the positive stuff that kids get out of the books? Or does that open up a great opportunity to have a discussion and teach people the subtleties of maybe where racism did come through and some of the things that he wrote, but for the most part, people acknowledge that he did a great job or even To Kill a Mockingbird is is a real crazy one to talk about banning because it's All about discussing how people were treated inappropriately. I think   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 30:05 we have to continue having those conversations if we're going to change behavior and and learn how to treat   Michael Hingson ** 30:12 people differently, should all of Bill Cosby's humor go away, simply because, as it turned out later in life, we found that he had feet of clay in some ways. And the reality is, I think they're two different things, the humor, and the the wonderful joy and laughter He brought to people as a stand up comic, and even in TV and so on, can't be erased. And if you do, you're missing so much. You   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 30:39 are and I think this is a this is a really interesting conversation, because I do not know the quote, but if we're only I'm not justifying, what if we are judged by our worst days, then like, nobody is going to nobody is is free, in a sense. And I think that we need to be accountable for our mistakes, especially when we are doing things like this. I definitely agree with you on this. But there has to come a point that, I mean, if I hold on to the energy of that feeling of holding the worst days of every person in my life against them, I'm not going to have anyone in my life. Because I mean, and what a terrible thing to focus on is only the worst things that people have done.   Michael Hingson ** 31:31 And the reality is that there's so much positive energy that that we can attract, if we choose to be more positive than negative, and recognizing that we don't need to be negative, it doesn't add value to us. It   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 31:46 doesn't and that's and that's such a such an expression, such an understanding, it doesn't add value to us, many people and people will say, and we will have why. How do I show up when everyone around me is just negative like that, like, I don't know how to do it? Well, sometimes boundaries have to come in place. And sometimes you decide where you put your time and your energy. And you have to know that, you know, there are times where I will say no to certain things, because that's just not where I choose to put my energy. And I think this is really important. I'm not saying that because I'm judging somebody else. And I don't like how they're how they speak or how they show up. I'm doing that because that's what's best for me. That's, I feel like that's choosing ourselves, we get to choose who we spend that time and energy with. It's not about pointing fingers and making it about other people, we just get to decide where we put it. And I really think that there's a there's a difference between two. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:45 yeah. And it's always a matter of choice as to which way you want to go. And like I've said to people, on many occasions, sometimes things happen to us that we don't have. And actually a lot of times probably things happen to us that we don't have any control over happening. But we always have control over how we choose to deal with what happens.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 33:07 Yes, and that is actually I'm probably going to butcher the quote, but it was years ago. For me one of the big turning points was when I heard Stephen Covey's quote, and it was that you are not a product of your circumstances, you are a product of your decisions. Yep, that that was a light switch for me moment where I went, Oh, okay, that no, that actually makes sense. Because I was living in a situation that I don't remember asking for, I didn't want it's not what I wanted to deal with. But I did have a choice in how I responded. And that really started to reframe my thoughts that I could choose how I show up, I could choose how I responded. And when you can start to take back even a sliver of choice in your life, it really will start to shift your energy and how you show up. If you actually I think the other piece of this is that when we stay in that angry victim mindset, and feel like this is just all unfair. And it's happening. No change happens there. And when we can start to become a product of our decisions, we can actually start to create change. And that's the it's a really powerful message for and I know it's not easy. I know it's not easy. I just know that it's soul choice.   Michael Hingson ** 34:23 Yeah. It's always a choice.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 34:27 Well, you thought of energy that's wasted when it's not   Michael Hingson ** 34:31 Oh, so much. Yeah. I love the quote I heard and I don't know about the truth of it, but I choose to think it makes sense that it takes 17 muscles in your face to frown But only three to smile.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 34:44 Isn't that something, isn't it? Yeah, it's in and that's a that's a choice. Sometimes when I go for a walk and I'm gonna walk my dog a lot or I'm in the store. I tried really hard to make eye contact and smile at people and it's an Have you seen how that's just not always? That might be seen as weird? But I actually have to do it?   Michael Hingson ** 35:07 Yeah, well, and it makes such a difference. You smile, people smile at you. And it goes so far toward helping, I think people feel better.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 35:19 Yes. And you can be meeting people on sometimes their worst day. And sometimes that smile, that just gesture can make such a difference, and it can make an impact in both of your lives. Yeah, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 35:31 And you may not even know the impact ever, or until later. But still, it makes a big difference. So many times we plant seeds that we don't necessarily know how they'll grow. And we may not even learn how they grow. But nevertheless, it's always good to to work on planting good seeds and and not bad ones. Now   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 35:54 100% And it made me think of I really like it. This is such a short and simple book. But I really like the is it Mitch album, the five people you meet? And I like that because the reframe there is that the people that you have the biggest impact on you might not even realize it. Yeah, like, there might they're not the they might not be the closest people to you. It could be somebody that you crossed paths on their worst day. And that created a ripple in their lives. And I just I've always loved that concept.   Michael Hingson ** 36:27 Well, and you may not even ever No, no, how much of an impact you had one of my favorite stories, and I've told it a couple of times here, but I'll tell it again, is that in 2003, I went to New Zealand and I had been introduced and interviewed in 2001 by a gentleman who was always known as the Larry King of New Zealand. His name was Paul Holmes. And he came to interview us in the States at our home in New Jersey. And he said, If you ever get to New Zealand, let me know I want to interview you first. And so it turns out that there was an opportunity to go and do work in New Zealand for three weeks. And I emailed Paul and let him know we were coming. And we got there on a Wednesday morning and I got a chance to nap because it was a long flight. But we got there and napped. And then I was on his show that night at seven. And what happened was that a week later, a weekend a few days later was the second Saturday I was in New Zealand. Apparently, the show interviewing me reran. And the next day, and I wasn't connected with this at all. But a group of blind people took a river raft, and they had a guide. And they all went and they had a great time. And at the end, the guide said, I have to tell you a story. He said I was going to cancel this trip yesterday, because I didn't think fine people could do this and that you would have any fun at all. And I probably have to be jumping in the water and saving all of you. They said last night, I saw the Pol Home Show. And there was this bloke from the States I love it. This bloke from the states who was on who was in the World Trade Center on September 11. And he got out and I figured if he could get out and he could be here and talk about that, I should be able to have fun with all of you guys. And I have to tell you, this was the best trip I have ever had a chance to guide. Hi.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 38:25 Thank you for sharing that I have not heard that one. I love that story. That's beautiful.   Michael Hingson ** 38:30 You just never know. And it will have always felt if I can make a difference in my life or one person's life, then I've done my job. And anything else beyond that is great. And I've chosen to speak because my belief is that if I can help people move on from September 11, and learn about blindness and guide dogs and so on, then it's a good thing. And that's what I've been working on for the last almost 22 years now. And having a lot of fun doing it.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 38:59 Yeah, I think that was one of the things that drew me to your story and knowing that I wanted to share it is because exactly that you are you're making a difference with your story. And it is just it's really opening up conversations and showing people how they can move forward and how they can make a difference. And I just I absolutely love that.   Michael Hingson ** 39:22 Well tell me a little bit about you getting into doing a lot of storytelling. You said that you during your your career, which I assume ended mostly because of the pandemic, the company. Yeah. But you learn a lot about telling stories, which I always think is a great way to handle any situation and it helps people grow to have a greater understanding. But then you started coaching full time. And now you tell stories. So what does it mean to own your own story?   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 39:51 Well, I think I love this question. And I I just I think when it comes down to it. You either own your story Don't you to keep it super simple. If you are, we've all walked through an experience, we've all walked through challenges. But that doesn't have to identify us, right? It's part of us. But it doesn't have to be our identity. And I think that's the piece is that when you own the story, it doesn't own you. But when it does own you, it controls you. And I mean that in a sense that there is a tremendous amount of people who are hiding in what I would call a shame story, and are hiding it, hoping and praying that no one ever knows that they've struggled, that they're struggling, that there's a challenge happening. I think that has been even more amplified with social media. Because I think that for a long time, there was this this image that of, you know, perfectionism, and wow, look at how great everyone is doing, when that's just, it's just a snapshot of a person's day. And so when you don't own the story, it owns you. And for the longest time, I really tried to hide that part of myself, because I just didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't know how to deal with the criticism, and the judgments, and all of the words and and I'm still trying to, at the time was trying to navigate a really difficult time. And so when that those words started to land on me, like on your choices on your life and owning your story, and what did that look like? It was amazing that I came to a point of saying, Yes, I was a parent who dealt with teen substance abuse, it changed me at the core. And I learned how to share my story which allowed me to heal, which allowed me to build better relationships with my kids to really do something really good with the most difficult experience of my life. And part of that became sharing stories. How Hermie how do you share a difficult story? Like how do you share a story, especially when there's other people involved? How do you share a story when there's other people involved? And I think that is something that is misunderstood a lot. But here's the thing is, is that when we don't, when I first started to share my story, I was blown away by how many people would stop me and say, Oh, my gosh, that's my story. I've never told a soul. I've held on to it for 3040 years and listening to people. Be that victim to shame and shame. Shame, love secrecy. Right? So the more people shut it down, the more shame grows. So by helping people to share a story, then all of a sudden, they were able to feel free from that story. And it started to open up this this idea of how can we start to share more of us. And that's how we find our connections and how we build our connections. So storytelling wise, if I can share, I watched this today, I actually ran a masterclass today. Pardon me, I've been talking all day. But I ran a master class today. And I asked if there was anybody who wanted to come on live and practice how to share and frame a story. And one of the moms who jumped on I saw her jump, and I'm like, This is awesome. I'm so excited. Because I've had a number of conversations with her and both of her boys experience. They both had a genetic condition. They spent 18 years in the hospital, almost 95 in the hospital. So I could imagine what that family went through. They lost their one son, the other son survived. And she started to share. And she was very afraid she was scared to share it. She got quite emotional. But as she did it, people were commenting and pouring so much love and support into her that I actually made her pause and I said I need you to read these comments, like read these comments. And she just sat there and went, I had no idea. And I'm like, this is the point about our stories. Our stories show that we are so much more connected than we think that we are we are so much more alike than we think that we are. And I think that learning how to share our stories, normalizes our connections. And we don't have to walk the same story as somebody else in order to be connected to them. Because we're all connected by emotions, experiences, lessons, etc. So that's really where it started. And when I started to find my own freedom from my story, I actually started to heal, but listening to everyone else, give me feedback and tell me that that was their story. It just gave me fuel to keep going and I felt very compelled that this was my purpose in life was to start to change stigma and start to open up conversations about difficult topics. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 45:06 Well, and it's how do I say it is an exciting thing to be able to do and to recognize and then to help bring about, and whether you know, what it was we talked about before whether you know, what really happens and, and how you affect people or not isn't the issue, but at least you're the conduit, and you know that. I   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 45:26 like being the conduit, I'm actually I like, I actually like it. And it helped me to shift in looking that, you know, through the most difficult experience I've walked through, I was able to give it purpose. And because I could give it purpose that helped me to heal. And it helped me feel like, maybe that's what I'm supposed to be doing. And accounts are sent that to me. And it was etched in me, when I said no matter where I go, nobody's talking about difficult things in life. And she said, maybe that's good. You're supposed to, maybe you're supposed to talk and I'm like, You want me to just talk about this, like, What will people think what will they say? And I can tell you all of the stories I made up in my head about how bad it would be and how scary it would be none of them happened, survived. And I mean, you speak you understand, like, it's two big groups, we tell ourselves stories. But it was incredible experience. And I continue to do that to this day. And podcasting is part of it. And what it's done is brought connections into my life that I never would have had. And I know I've normalized a lot of topics that people don't want to talk about. But I do think the interesting thing is, is that, tying it back to the very beginning of my story and intro that I shared here, I grew up in an era when you didn't talk about difficult things, like you literally just put your smile on and pretended everything was fine. And so when I decided that I wanted to start sharing, I would love to say I was met with so much love and support. And that was not the truth. It took time because it was it was uncomfortable for people in my life. But I kept saying just trust me that I will be always sharing and leaving everyone in integrity. It's the utmost highest intention. And it didn't take long for others to see why I wanted to do it. And I'm so grateful that I did. Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 47:22 you talked about having teen substance abuse in your family. And that had to be a hard thing. But learning to talk about it is also part of what probably was good therapy for you.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 47:33 It was the best therapy I've done all I have done so much different support. And I would say it was one of the best things that I ever did for myself healing wise and therapy wise.   Michael Hingson ** 47:45 Ironically, picking on the media, as we often do for me, subjecting myself to literally hundreds of interviews after September 11. From from media people who asked anything from the most intelligent thought provoking questions to the dumbest questions in the world. Even so, it made me talk about September 11. And it made me do it in ways I would never have imagined. So for me, that was some of the best therapy I think I've ever had. And I and I think everybody in the media for it, ironically enough, after knowing that we we still have to pick on them anyway.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 48:23 Yeah, and I'm sure that like, I've had many people ask me questions, and I'm like, I am not answering that. Like, I'm just not there's no purpose behind that. I'm not saying that. People will ask I also think that people ask because they don't know, or they're looking for a sweet, they don't know. It's interesting, because I think I actually I'm gonna say this, I think that I would rather somebody asked me a question that's not appropriate, then give me that glance and judge and not ask, because sometimes people don't ask out of fear. And I've actually had a couple of really interesting opportunities when I where I've been able to use that conversation as a little bit of nice education. Because I think the other thing is, is that with my with our story, we didn't look like what most people thought, like who had this issue, which, to me, was all the more reason to start to talk about it. Because there's, there's hundreds of 1000s of me, it's not that I was the only one. And I mean, the only reason that most of us feel alone when it comes to these topics is because we're not talking and we're not alone. None of us are. And so I really think those are those are the pieces but I love how you share that. And I do think that by talking, I really wanted to help others out. And I was also helping myself. I didn't know that at the time. One of the best things I could have ever done, because   Michael Hingson ** 49:58 it helped you as much as anything How did you discover that you could only own your own choices?   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 50:05 The hard way. I think the hard way, I spent a lot of time trying to fix, manage control, micromanage everything around me trying to make it better trying to save them trying to, you know, fight a system, I was just in this constant fight mode. And really what was happening there is nothing external to me was changing. And everything internal to me was changing, but not for the better. I was in a space where I was probably my worst health, I wasn't sleeping hardly at all, I didn't have hardly energy, I didn't have a lot of positive joy or good outlook in my life. And through a lot of work, and reading and support, I started to recognize that I wasn't owning any of my own choices. I was literally blaming everyone for that, and not taking any responsibility for myself. And ironically, when I started to do that, it got really easy to say, Wait, is that my choice? Nope, that was not mine, either. Nope, that one's not mine, either. And I literally would go through the list. And it was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm spending like, I was spending like, 97% of my day, doing everything that wasn't my choice, and then having nothing left for me. And then being angry at everyone else, because I had nothing left for me in order to do that. So owning owning my choices became a model for me. And when it came to wanting to start the podcast, on your choices on your life, that was I mean, people say that's too long of a title, you shouldn't do that. And I'm like those words saved me. And that's, that's literally they've become the pillar cornerstone for me. And they saved me so that it became very easy to use them.   Michael Hingson ** 51:45 I never would have thought of calling your choices on your life being too long of a name. It   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 51:52 was I had so many people. I mean, this is the thing when you ever want to do anything new, be very careful how many pins you ask for? Yes, get a lot.   Michael Hingson ** 52:04 Or feel free to get all the opinions and then you just have to synthesize them together and decide where you're gonna go. Exactly,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 52:10 exactly. When I when I wrote my solo book in 2017. It's called when she stopped asking why. And I waited for a while for that title just hadn't come to me yet. And when it did, I went to my publisher. I'm like, I've got the name. It's once you stopped asking why. And the publisher said, Oh, no, that's just way too long. That's way too long, no one's going to understand it. And I said, I actually think more people are going to get it than anything. Because it's, you know, when we ask that when you ask the question, why it only is appropriate if you're moving towards something like if you're focusing on the why the bigger picture, and that mission. But if you're asking why as a victim, and why is this happening to me, that will never change the story. And for me, that's when the story change is I would catch myself and ask why. And it's like, no, wait, why does it matter? The what matters, what is the verb, what is an action, that is something I can control. And that's what I would just shift it to. So again, back to what you're saying, you've got to follow your gut on some of these things, and listen to what feels right for you.   Michael Hingson ** 53:14 We forget all too often to follow our gut and our instincts. And they're always telling us the right answer.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 53:21 They are they're speaking to us, we just might not be listening. I   Michael Hingson ** 53:25 learned that playing Trivial Pursuit learned it the hard way, you know, you got to listen to what your brain tells you. Because you're sitting there going, when a question comes up, and you get an answer. No, that can't be right. And you give another answer. And it turns out, you were supposed to answer what the original answer.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 53:40 The first one how many times in Toronto procedures that happen a lot all the   Michael Hingson ** 53:43 time. A lot. So I work at it and and then and now people say when I play it, how can you get so many of these right? You know, and I just keep telling, telling them? I'm just listening to my gut? That's awesome. It is it's fun. Well, you know, when you are working with people, are you expecting to make a change? Or do you do you feel that's what you have to do? Or you're just really trying to help and let them make their own choices and decide whether they want to change or not be   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 54:16 the opposite? Yes, I again, back to conduit. I like to be the person. So this person who came on to the masterclass today, for example, I probably have four or five conversations with her. And this has just been something she's working towards, like these are difficult, vulnerable stories that people are showing up and trying to find a way to share. Because the intention is is that they want to do something good in the world with it. They want to help somebody else. They a lot of times like we're perfectly designed to help the younger version of who we work. And so they want to do something, but it will be in her own time and it will be in their own time. And she even said today she's like thank you for like just nudging me, but never We're pushing and I'm like, it's, I can't make you do anything. And if so, like, that's not where real change comes from. So I like to be a person who can help them to, a lot of times I can see what someone has available, but before they can see it, but I can't make them do it. That's it's never my job to make them do it, it's it's my job to show them what's possible. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 55:27 And you can't make the change happen. All you can do is at most set by example, as Gandhi said, Be the change you want to see in the world, but you have to do what you have to do, and be who you have to be. And hopefully, people will recognize the example. Yes, that's,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 55:47 and that's why I think I really on a regular basis Share, Like I just share so openly, because I, I am never going to be the person who shows up online and saying everything is rainbows and butterflies, and it's a piece of cake. I'm not going to go on to complain, but I know how to be real. And it's like, you know, sometimes we're walking through really difficult times. And it requires me to focus even more on my own mindset and how I show up. But I will never show up and pretend that it's a piece of cake. And it's never a problem, because that's not relatable, that doesn't help anybody. I would rather show people how to navigate through something, and if it speaks to them, and it helps them to say I actually want to do something with my story, too. I would love to know how to help someone else out, then I hope it inspires them to do that.   Michael Hingson ** 56:39 And what do you say when they say that?   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 56:41 I asked them, usually the first thing I ask them is what's the vulnerable story that you're holding on to that you wish you could share more openly with others. And for example, somebody will say, you know, I experienced this, I have dealt with addiction, I have dealt with this. And I helped them to come to a framework with their story where they're able to have perspective, and they're able to pull the lessons and the learnings and the experiences from what they walked through. Because that's what they share. Right? That's what you share, you don't share the details of the story. It's you share the experience of what you walked through and how you helped, like how you got yourself through. And that's what you share. So I really helped them to kind of dissect and look at like, what, what did these experiences teach you? Who are you now because of it? And what do you want to do in your life? Because of this? Yeah, that's   Michael Hingson ** 57:43 what I was gonna get to is then what comes next? And it's what do you want to do with your life? Exactly.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 57:48 And for some people, it's like their entire mission now. And I just love it. To me, it's very, it's a ripple effect. And I'm grateful to see it firsthand is to watch people step into and share vulnerable stories. And when I see people do that, like, I just, I just cheer them on, because I know how scary that is. And I know how hard that is. But I also know that story is going to reach others. I actually interviewed a musician who had dealt with addiction for a number of years, most people didn't know it. And he's, you know, he was sharing online, he was building quite a following. He was singing people loved his music, at cetera. And it he said, you know, it was funny, it was building a following, until I decided to quit drinking. And then I started to share my story as somebody who was was working through addiction, then all of a sudden, he goes my following. And my support and my community grew tenfold. Because I let them see me, I gave them something to root for. And I just I think that is such a beautiful piece that as humans, we want to be able to support others. But that's going to require that we let others see themselves through our experiences. Like they have to be able to recognize that Wait, she knows what if she knows what I'm going through? Because I could I could hear it and her message. And then we start to build these connections.   Michael Hingson ** 59:20 It isn't telling the story. It's telling the story in a personal and open way. So that people as you say, See you it's not just I'm going to tell the story and everything's gonna be great and people are gonna love me. Doesn't matter if you're not genuine.   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 59:40 No, it's the the authenticity, the genuineness. realness is so much more important. And even even here as an example for anybody who's listening. Like I didn't share much of my story. And I didn't have to. You don't have to share the details. It's not the details that is going to connect you with other people. It's that experience and what you choose to do with it. And I see such a bigger movement now of people who are recognizing that they've walked through something really difficult, and they want to do something good with it in the world. And I think that's how we start to change the conversation around these kinds of topics.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:20 When you start to tell your story, if you get somebody who really pushes back and criticizes you, how do you handle that? What do you do? And how do you rebound and go on? Well,   Marsha Vanwynsberghe ** 1:00:30 in the beginning, it took me a while to rebound, I'm not gonna lie, like in the beginning, it was hard, because, you know, critics, nobody wants to be criticized. And but it didn't take long, I had some really good mentors, and I did a lot of work. It didn't take long to recognize that when you're going to talk about difficult things in life, you're gonna ruffle some feathers, you're gonna you're gonna push buttons, it's gonna happen. And people will always react to you based on whatever lens they're wearing. If they're wearing a lens of like victim anger, resentment, you don't get me you don't understand, I can't change that. I can't fix that. Like, I can just be me I can be I can. And I used to be the change, I literally wear that word on my bracelet like that is those are my go to words, I get to choose how I can be the change that I wish to see. And so that's always a reminder for me. But when I see that criticism now, this is how and I advise and share is this just my opinion on it, is when I see it, if it doesn't feel good for me, I will delete it lockup, if it is something that is constructive, that maybe a person is asking for some questions on, then I will I will try and answer because maybe this person is just a space of curiosity going wait, how do you move through something that's difficult. So I don't just take it at face value and judge it. But if it doesn't feel good, I still get criticism to this day, I will block delete, I will move things. I can really protect my energy put boundaries in place when it comes to putting myself out there. And I there are times that I have to remind myself, you know, sometimes I'll share something that's quite vulnerable. And I'll get 1015 Incredible comments back and I'll get one negative one. Do I choose to put all my energy into the one negative one? Or do I focus on the other 10 to 14 that were incredible. I think we get to choose what we focus on. And so the day that I start to focus on the only the negative comments, that person is, I can't I can't make them change. And maybe that's not their journey. And and that's not up to me. So when that happened, I just honestly I check in with myself again, go back to self like reflection and intention. And I look at it and say Did I say anything that was inappropriate? Did I do something I will go internally and look not being critical, but I will look to make sure I didn't do anything that wasn't. And then I just look at it and say I can't change that person sometimes even said thank you for your opinion. And sometimes I just block and delete, because I know that. I mean, at least once a week I get a message from a completely new person. I take those messages, I screenshot I save them

Today's Show we have our last two guests for spooky season interviews. Up first is a return guest to the Left of Str8 Show, Michael Varrati, who is widely known in the horror genre, especially the lgbtq horror genre. I talked to Michael many years ago where we talked about his origin in the genre and having grown up near where I am living here in NE Ohio. Michael also had the honor of being asked to his alma mater near me here at Kent State to give the commencement address for the lgbtq graduates this year. Whether Michael is writing, directing, producing, podcasting or just an invitee of fun events, he does them all fantastically. He not only wrote the Fangoria Chainsaw Awards program for the second year this past May, but also directed it for the first time as well. Look for Michael and projects by his June Gloom productions and listen to his latest podcast “Midnight Mass.” You should also look for past episodes of “Dead For Filth,” you can thank me later. Be sure to check out my guest's Social Media here: @michaelvarrati Thank you for listening to the Left of Str8 Radio Network, hosted by Scott Fullerton. The Left of Str8 Radio Network was created for the LGBTQ Community and our Straight Allies and we talk to and about, celebrities and personalities from the worlds of Entertainment, Foodies, Music, Books, and Advocacy. We post our weekly lgbtq news show, The Rainbow Rundown on Mondays, Our Left of Str8 Interviews post on Thursdays and Fridays, and we post our bonus "5 Questions With...." our Interviewee's on Tuesdays. Our newest show, "Bears of a Certain Age," airs on its own YouTube Channel in our partnership with The Queer Centric every Wednesday. Please share with your friends and follow us on social media @leftofstr8 on Instagram, @leftofstr8radio on Twitter (X), and Left of Str8 Show on Facebook. If you like us, please give our episodes a 5 star rating so more people will find them in the Algorithm. Go to our website at www.leftofstr8radio.com to listen to all shows, enter contests, write questions to the show for Scott or Guests, and if you want to be a guest or host on the network. You can find the video podcast of each episode on YouTube and Spotify, and the audio podcast is available at all major distributors including: iTunes, iHeart Radio, GoodPods, Amazon Music, Audible, Google Podcasts and more. You can support the show on our Patreon Page for as little as $3 a month, $8 a month, or $13 a month, to help cover show expenses and other costs. you can find us over at www.patreon.com/leftofstr8 .............Thanks, Scott

I am always fascinated to meet and talk with people on Unstoppable Mindset who thought they knew what they wanted to do in life only to discover that their path went in an alternative direction. Meet Eric Dates who is just such a person. Eric grew up in the Los Angeles area. He was active in sports and also he was a musician. He went to Ohio State where he played volleyball on the 2011 championship team. After college Eric thought he wanted to go into the hospitality industry as he loved, as he put it “the diversity of people and the diversity of possibilities”. As he tells us, his idea of work lasted four months. After that, he realized his knowledge of marketing was better suited elsewhere. Our conversation is far-ranging, but we do talk a lot about marketing and sales. Marketing discussions go far outside dealing with products, however. I think you will be intrigued by what Eric has to say especially about life and how we should progress going forward. About the Guest: Eric Dates, a proud resident in Spring Hill, TN, is a multifaceted professional with a storied history of achievement and leadership. A former Division I volleyball player at Ohio State, Eric was part of the national championship team in 2011, marking a significant milestone early in his life. His competitive spirit and teamwork were not confined to the volleyball court, though, and they have since become defining attributes in his professional career. Eric's journey took a melodious turn as he embarked on a successful yet short career as a touring musician. This unique experience endowed him with a new perspective, a creative mindset, and an appreciation for the harmonious blend of rhythm and discipline. As his career evolved, Eric discovered his true calling: fostering growth in early to mid-stage startups. With his inherent problem-solving skills and penchant for teamwork, he has contributed to the flourishing of several startups, paving their paths toward achieving their full growth potential. Currently, Eric serves as the Sr. Director of Revenue Marketing at Justt, a forward-thinking fintech company dedicated to helping merchants recapture revenue lost to chargebacks. His love for problem-solving thrives in this challenging environment, and he relishes living in the trenches with his team, building, improving, and innovating. Startups resonate with Eric's professional ethos as they offer him a space to think holistically and make a tangible impact. It's here that his passion, intellect, and entrepreneurial spirit come to the fore. Outside of his professional endeavors, Eric cherishes his role as a husband and father. Alongside his wife, Laura, he is raising two wonderful children, Bella (8) and Harlan (1), and navigates the beautiful labyrinth that is life. Ways to connect with Eric: Linkedin URL: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ecdates/ Company Website: Justt.ai About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.     Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi, and here we are once again with unstoppable mindset. Glad you're here. And hope you enjoy our presentation and discussions today. We get to speak with Eric Dates. And Eric has an interesting life. I think so he was a division one volleyball player on a championship team for Ohio State. I bet Michigan didn't like that. But you know, that's another that's another story. But he's been involved in leadership marketing and, and has a lot to talk about least, it seems so from the things I've read. So Eric, welcome to unstoppable mindset. And we're really glad you're here.   Eric Dates ** 01:57 Michael, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. It's always an honor to chat with you. So looking forward to it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:03 Well, why don't we start, as I love to do and tell us a little bit about kind of the early Eric growing up and all that stuff?   Eric Dates ** 02:11 Sure. So I stem from the left coast, the west coast in the Heart of LA, born and raised there. Yeah, had awesome, awesome family life. I was super blessed. I got to get to participate in a lot of sports and a lot of other fun things. I did music as well, out there growing up and we're in LA. Right on the west side of LA, I guess the biggest subsidy of that massive place would be Culver City area for me. And yeah, it was great. You know, it's, it was, I'm really glad I grew up where I grew up in in the way that I grew up. Because it gave me a great perspective of diversity, I think in a lot of ways that people want to experience it. Every school I went to was, you know, had people from all walks of life across the board. And to me, that was just the status quo. So I think it shaped me to become the person I am today, which is, you know, someone who expects that out of society in general. And it's been really, I've been really fortunate to continue to experience tons of diversity, whether it's people diversity or activity, diversity, you know, all the different types of diversity, you can experience. I've been lucky enough to be a part of a bunch of it. So it's been it's been a great road so far from that, you know, kind of looking back now. The way I grew up, I, I couldn't imagine it happening any other way at this point. And I wouldn't wish it to be so because I just feel like it. It taught me a lot of lessons both hard and easy to learn in a great way that I don't think I would have got anywhere else.   Michael Hingson ** 03:51 So you went through high school out in LA   Eric Dates ** 03:54 that I did. I went to Alexander Hamilton High School, the birthplace of many random things, and actually stay in high school is a couple celebrity folks that you probably recognize. And it was great, super fun experience. It was a half of a Music Academy, half humanities Academy and it was a phenomenal school. Public school too in the Heart of LA. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 04:17 What did you play for an instrument?   Eric Dates ** 04:20 So my main instrument was guitar growing up, like guitar, and I did everything from in high school. I was a mariachi, which was really fun. Great experience getting to around Los Angeles and playing for just the most incredible people I've ever met and eating the most incredible food I've ever eaten. And I toured as a musician here in Nashville as well with guitar for a little bit so it carried me on throughout my earlier life quite a bit.   Michael Hingson ** 04:48 Well, so you went through high school and then I gather you went to Ohio State that I did. What what prompted that because that's a long way from Southern California.   Eric Dates ** 05:01 It definitely was. And I'd be lying to you if I said it was easy to do. But at the beginning, it was very much, you know, especially when you're fortunate enough to be playing a sport like that, that does have a collegiate level. I got to fly and experience Ohio State, I experienced a couple other schools in Southern California. And I was just blown away by the the pride and culture that the entire campus had, I just wanted to go be a part of it. But that thought it was a two in my eyes, it was a huge risk, you know, coming from the epicenter of volleyball going into the Midwest, which turns out has a phenomenal volleyball program across the board. And yeah, it was the the good Ohio State Buckeyes that got me out of California.   Michael Hingson ** 05:46 Well, so, you're right, it's sort of the epicenter out here in a lot of ways, but volleyball has turned out to be a lot more universal than maybe we thought and the Olympics is certainly brought volleyball to the visibility of of a lot of people, which is, which is kind of cool. What did you major in in college,   Eric Dates ** 06:09 I was that person who didn't figure out what I wanted to major. And until the last second, I had to pick and I picked English, which turned into marketing, which then turned into Hospitality Management, then Consumer Science is where I landed.   Michael Hingson ** 06:26 Wow. That's a kind of, again, a diverse range of topics to to deal with. And you did all that and move from one of those fields to the other in college.   Eric Dates ** 06:40 Yeah, so I eventually found my place at the time in Hospitality Management, because of the phenomenal focus on customer experience. And I'm so thankful for that time I spent there as it applies in so much these days. So I was really fortunate to learn early on after graduating, that I did not want to work in hotels.   Michael Hingson ** 07:04 But you value the customer service and customer experience concept.   Eric Dates ** 07:09 More than anything, it's why is that? You know, it's, it's been interesting, because the hospitality world, they've understood from the beginning, that you're buying the experience, right, you're you're purchasing the brand, in a sense, when you go stay at a property, it's the only tangible thing is, you know, the bed and the room itself, but that exists anywhere. So why pick them. And it all came down to the core differentiator, which was the way that they treated their guests. And now, you know, flash forward 12 ish years in the future. That's how all these marketing departments and all these companies across the board are approaching their customers, you know, so it's been, it's been really beneficial for me to have that foundation, because I could start to apply what I already learned versus having to learn something like a new concept is customer first.   Michael Hingson ** 07:56 So how do you think customer experience and so on has changed or developed during the pandemic? Because certainly, it has a lot. And in hotels, for example, a lot of things have changed rooms aren't necessarily cleaned every day. Sometimes there are other kinds of services that are more limited. Airlines are certainly not providing as much of what they used to provide. If I'm reading it, right, what do you think about all of that? And how does all that really blend into the whole customer experience concept?   Eric Dates ** 08:28 It's definitely shifted significantly, you know, I think the start of it all was the iPhone coming out and these touchscreens and now half the experience was heavily digital in their hand. And with the pandemic kind of changing that in almost mandating that that's the new experience for the most part, as well as customer behavior kind of changing. I think it's, it's opened up a lot of challenges, you know, in the hospitality space. And in general, in a service based industry, you have this whole concept of a service recovery plan, right? If something goes wrong with this, what are we supposed to do? And now it all transitioned from the humanistic element over into the digital elements. So all these properties, especially hotels, airlines, all these folks who weren't necessarily digital first thinkers, they had to rapidly pivot and start accommodating, but also had to learn the hard way kind of building the ship as you're sailing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:22 Yeah. Well, and I read a lot of complaints taking airlines, like, we want to push as many people into an airplane as possible. So now, the space in seats is six inches less than it used to be. And now we're starting to hear people say, Has it gotten too confined and too crowded? And is all of the air rage that we hear about and read about, in part because of that and customer service? Is is it really as good as it used to be?   Eric Dates ** 09:56 I think that is a very phenomenal question because I don't think there's a clear answer, I think some have done better. And some have dropped the ball. And it's gonna be an interesting time looking into the future, especially as this technology in general starts to compound at the rate that it is, who's going to remain versus what new players are, we're going to see and who's gonna fall off. So it's gonna be an interesting, you know, couple of years, in my opinion, as we look forward to see kind of who's still going to be here versus Are there going to be new names? I've never heard of the forefront.   Michael Hingson ** 10:29 Yeah. And that's going to be the exciting thing. Are we going to see new players who come in with new ideas that for whatever reason people haven't thought of? And probably the naysayers will say, Well, that'll never work. Well, that certainly was true with Southwest Airlines, because they rejected the whole idea of a hub model for slang. And they're still around.   Eric Dates ** 10:53 That's very true. That's very true, they did get the good to get a little bit of a saving grace once the economy tanked a bit. But yeah, I agree, they did a good job at at pivoting accordingly. And kind of changing their brand, in a way that their expectation was very clear of when you engage with Southwest, here's what your experience is going to be like, that's what's really saved them.   Michael Hingson ** 11:15 And while it's true that you just get on an airplane, there are no assigned seats and, and other things like that. Mostly, I don't hear nearly the level of complaints about them as I do some of the other airlines because you've also got the flight attendants, who have been encouraged to make the flying experience more pleasurable, and they're not necessarily as stiff as and as formal, at least in my experience.   Eric Dates ** 11:46 I want to agree, you know, you hit on a really interesting point, that it used to be looking for elements of digital to drop into the human experience. And now it's the opposite way of, if we drop human experience into a digital, you know, journey, it's almost like it becomes significantly more noticed. And I love how Southwest has empowered those folks to have fun and enjoy what they're doing. And, you know, the consumers always tell you, you know, whether they're sharing stuff out social or hits the news, whatever, but they will let you know what they liked what they do. And it seems like people have really caught on to that one element of the brand.   Michael Hingson ** 12:23 Yeah. And it's, it's going to be interesting just to see how it all goes. As we go forward, and whether consumers will demand enough that they don't like, perhaps the way some things are going well, we'll see. And the other part of it is that I know different countries have different levels of airlines, passenger rights or other kinds of industry rights. Legislation. So it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. It's going to be an exciting time. No, no question about it.   Eric Dates ** 12:59 Absolutely, we'll probably see things happen the fastest they've ever happened before. And it will continue to be as such.   Michael Hingson ** 13:06 Yeah. And, and that's okay. That's what makes it kind of fun. Well, so what did you do right out of college? So you were in hospitality? Where did you go to work? What did you do that got you off of hotels.   Eric Dates ** 13:21 I was working at two properties in Columbus, actually, Columbus, Ohio. And it was fun. And I just wanted in full transparency. I probably was way too ambitious for my own good. I was looking to learn to things in hotel so I could start my own and, you know, build the version of Atlantis that we all want to build in our minds and make it real. And I quickly realized that I probably needed to get some more experience and knowledge around what I thought I knew. So let me do the business world.   Michael Hingson ** 13:54 What did you So how long did you do hotel stuff?   Eric Dates ** 13:58 I had been working in hotels since probably five years like during college and then after college than after you know that that last portion kind of before I moved to Nashville? Yeah, I was in those two. So prob about five years of hotel work here and there. I would wouldn't say his full time just because of the sports commitments and other things. But as much as I could. I was I was working on property and getting that experience in.   Michael Hingson ** 14:26 Was it full time after college?   Eric Dates ** 14:29 It was it was full time.   Michael Hingson ** 14:31 And how long do that? How long was that after college?   Eric Dates ** 14:36 Prep? Probably right when I went full time full time and I hated it to be fully transparent. It was a shock for me to go full time on on your feet all day. So is the short three or four months of full time before this really hit me of like this is not it's not Eric,   Michael Hingson ** 14:52 you made a decision pretty quickly. So what did you what what did you then go and do   Eric Dates ** 15:00 So that's kind of when I picked everything up and said, You know, I'm going to try to move to Nashville. I had some friends here had some had some connections here and wanted had always been doing music, like I said, so I was gonna go see if I could dive into some songwriting get into the performing aspect, while chasing a business career. And that's when I found my first, I guess, real marketing job was with a co working space here in Nashville. And that was what jump started my career in marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 15:30 But you also worked as a musician for a while, right?   Eric Dates ** 15:33 I did. I was touring around and touring with the back that I was with is basically fancy weekends is the way that pitch it, you know, some Thursday nights, but mostly Fridays, and Saturdays, you're out. I'd love to say a bus. But most of the times it was in a van. And we were, you know, putting in the grind and going out. So every other Thursday, just about, you know, we were an opening act. So we'd go chase down where the big open or the big maniac was, to our 45 minute set. And right back to Nashville.   Michael Hingson ** 16:07 Anybody who was a maniac that we would know.   Eric Dates ** 16:11 I absolutely, I think, you know, one of the one of the main acts that we were opening up for most when I was with this artists and artists was playing for a name was Tara Thompson, or still is, her name is Tara Thompson. And the main act that we opened for most was Drake. White was his name. So he had some really popular songs out. I think like 2017. And some other various artists, I had the fortunate opportunity of opening for, you know, everything from The Chainsmokers to mark chestnut, you know, the the country gentleman who had some pretty big songs, and quite a few other artists that were it was just really cool to go experience that. But there was also a reason why I did not stay.   Michael Hingson ** 16:51 That wasn't what you really wanted to do full time.   Eric Dates ** 16:56 Correct. It was a it was that classic inflection point, the fork in the road of if I keep going this way. I have to go 100%. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 17:06 And you weren't really ready to do that. Concerning music. And it doesn't sound like you wanted to do that. But you still had a lot of fun with music. So it helped. Absolutely. But you But you went into marketing, and you started working for a company, what did you do?   Eric Dates ** 17:24 So it was right at the boom of we work kind of getting on the map. So I was a part of a younger company startup out of Nashville that had two locations, the company name is E spaces, they're still here, they're doing a great job. They've gotten I think, like nine or 10 locations now, some in Florida as well. So with that job, when I first got there, it was very much we need marketing help. We don't have big budget because we're young, but we're leaning me and we're ready to go. So we need someone to help build the front desk, the front desk experience because they loved my hospitality background. So I was able to apply those learnings pretty quickly and help encourage these folks who were renting the front desk, or what we coined as the concierge to heighten the experience. And then with that kind of put together some digital marketing the b2b side to try and attract customers. So it's very much localized marketing. And it was great for me to learn because it was pretty hands off for my boss. He all he knew is what he wanted at the end. And oftentimes, for folks like myself, that's really appealing because I get to go test my theories learn the hard way. And get us there by any means necessary.   Michael Hingson ** 18:42 Well, you, you got into marketing and tell me a little bit more about what you mean, when you say you you were in marketing and what marketing is.   Eric Dates ** 18:52 That's a phenomenal question. I view marketing exclusively as conversation and mindshare, right? How can I rent space in the mind of the right person at the right time. And often that's accomplished these days through digital conversation, but yet to meet to me marketing is all around fostering the right message to the right person at the right time.   Michael Hingson ** 19:20 How does that differ differ from sales? And I know you make a little bit of a distinction between the two. So what's the difference?   Eric Dates ** 19:30 So the main difference to me and this is a topic that you don't really see as much as you think. But with with sales, to me, it's the goal is to get them to purchase. And in my opinion marketing is to encourage the right decision when the decision is to purchase. That's one, whether the decision is to follow along and consume content. That's a secondary, you know, there's a bunch of different goals that I think marketing helps accomplish, but it's more so sales. is really figuring out what do you individual? What do you need here? And how can what I offer meet that for you. So it's kind of a little bit different than I'm anticipating that conversation and trying to stimulate it to when the person in the market shows up to that conversation and hits that conclusion of, hey, I want this. The conversation is easier from the sales side. So it's kind of marketing, in my opinion, if done right, it handles all the objections that you would have in a normal sales process.   Michael Hingson ** 20:33 So I, I know from my experience, I've been in sales most of my adult life. And I, my view of sales is somewhat similar to yours. I think that good salespeople are teachers. And the reality is that the best salespeople also are capable of recognizing when what we're offering won't necessarily do what the customer needs, or it would be more of a disservice to try to push them into something than to say to them, This is what really works. My best employee that I ever hired, was a guy who, when he came for his interview, and we sat down, and I said, Tell me what you're going to be selling for us. He said, Actually, all I can really sell is my word, and my trust, and people need to decide to trust me, and I need you to back me up. Because the products and so on is all stuff. And a number of people have products and really the only thing I can really sell this myself and my word. And that was the answer I always look for and rarely ever got. Because the reality is that good salespeople, first of all, do understand marketing. Oh, yeah, but they but they also understand that their job is to do their best to help a customer make the right decision. And the reality is if the decision is my product won't do what they need, then the other aspect of it is what will work for them. And if I help a customer decide that and it isn't the product that I have, what does that get me? Well, the reality is I've seen on more than one occasion, when it gets me is so much trust that the customer understands what we have, and when an opportunity comes along to purchase a product. And in fact, we have I've seen on more than one occasion where the the customer says, I'm not putting it out for bid, you just tell us what the cost is. And we're gonna buy it from you because we trust you. That's great. And you just don't see much of that.   Eric Dates ** 22:49 That's true. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. I just think you hit on a really great point that a lot of folks almost lose these days. And I'm thinking kind of from a biased perspective of b2b exclusively software, as a service. And right now, the volume game, in my opinion, has become a tunnel or blinders for people because they're so focused on activity, right, everything now becomes a I have to hit this amount of activity today, I have to, you know, send as many emails as candidates, people call as many people, etc, etc. And they lose almost that forward thinking. So I think, when I hear you say that, it's that that's experienced, that's knowledge being shared, versus when you see sales folks out these days, and I'm just speaking the masses, I think there's a core group of very experienced sales folks who know exactly what they're doing. But from what I experienced in my inbox, and especially when my phone rings, it's, it's, it's almost a victim of process because they're like, I have to call you, I have to push this on you. Because I need to sell you this so I can have a job that fit. There's so much pressure put on these folks these days from a process side versus that longer term thinking of trust building and credibility boosting like you're mentioning.   Michael Hingson ** 24:06 Yeah. And the reality is that the people who really understand what selling is all about can take a step back and try to stave off more of that pressure because they know what they're doing and they know what they can do. I remember after September 11, people would call me and say you got to start selling again. We need to make goal this quarter. And this is now late in September of 2001. And it didn't matter to them that our customers were attending five, six and seven funerals a day and we're not buying the people who were calling we're so far removed, that they just could not understand why people weren't right back in and buying and they interpreted is that really we weren't off and selling, which was totally Not true at all. In reality, we ended up making gold that quarter. But still, the bottom line is that people have just such interesting ideas sometimes about how to sell rather than really allowing people to build the level of trust that we need to have.   Eric Dates ** 25:20 That's a great, great definition. It's, you know, it's it's rather than learning selling, it's understanding buying. I think those are really interesting perspective to look at it from.   Michael Hingson ** 25:31 It is, well, so clearly, we're talking philosophy here, we're talking about selling the philosophy of marketing, how do you feel that that marketing and you know, your overall philosophy intertwined with each other, or sales for that matter?   Eric Dates ** 25:47 Right, and it's, I, I am, of the mindset of simplification, it, simplify everything in its in its most simple form, get down to the essence, right, so I can really understand what it is. So as I approach a lot of my marketing, and teams that you know, who've worked with me, even my current team, they know this happens all the time is that, you know, I asked him well, what's like, like, in one sentence, like what just tell me like, if I'm your 10 year old cousin, tell me exactly what you're trying to accomplish? Like, we're at a family dinner. And I'm asking you, hey, what do you do at work, like, tell me what you're trying to accomplish? And then they say it, and it's okay. That's how you need to write to the market, because you just told me the clearest and simplest way for me to understand something. So often, what I end up doing in my moments of thinking are just simplifying and breaking things down as much as I can to get a better understanding of how I can leverage these, you know, tactics and tools that we all have, and probably take for granted on a daily basis.   Michael Hingson ** 26:49 Yeah, we often do really take it for granted way too much. And we don't think about it. And, like with so many things, we tend to react more than thinking about it, and then reacting and becoming better at thinking about it and drawing good sound conclusions before we do something or say something.   Eric Dates ** 27:09 Completely agree the the scheduling an hour for yourself, I think, is something often understated, in terms of importance, because it can do so much for people who have a very busy plate, just getting that hour of unplug everything, put the phone away and just think, you know, shut the computer down and just just think about something, you know, challenge yourself a little bit, it's still a muscle,   Michael Hingson ** 27:35 it is still a muscle Do you tend to do much of that? Do you do sort of introspective thinking at the end of the day, or at some point every day to step back from everything that's going on?   Eric Dates ** 27:48 Absolutely, I try to do it twice a day, you know, kind of a lunchtime work right after I finished lunch. Rather than diving right back in, it's kind of the you know, don't swim for 20 minutes after you eat. I tried to not work for 20 minutes after I just think and use that time. The other time is, of course, at the end of the day where I reflect on everything that went on. And oftentimes I'll chew on a specific aspect of the day for for quite a bit and just see what I can do with it. Zero goals other than just think   Michael Hingson ** 28:17 you beat yourself up when you're thinking that you screwed up in something or something didn't go the way you wanted? Or how do you handle those kinds of adverse situations?   Eric Dates ** 28:28 Absolutely. And yeah, the younger Eric, the fresh out of college, Eric would have. Absolutely and definitely did beat himself up and, and learning from what happens when you do that. So it's been very helpful for me, like I said, I do like to learn the hard way, unfortunately. But it helps me out with where I'm at now. Because I'm very purposeful about not reacting to my own emotions. And those you know, scenarios where you're frustrated because something was missed. I need to focus on getting back to the right mentality. So I can make a sound decision versus reacting from a state of anger or frustration. So it's been that's probably the strongest thing I've learned in my life has been that right there of when to react based on emotion versus not to any scenario, and I'm definitely not perfect, but I'm more cognizant of it.   Michael Hingson ** 29:20 Yeah, the issue is that we are, as I love to say, our own best teachers. I don't like any more to use the term. I'm my own worst critic. I used to do that. When I would listen to speeches that I've given and listen to the recordings of them. I would tell people I'm doing it because I'm my own worst critic. And if I can learn from it, that's great. And I realized that that was the wrong thing to say that in reality, I'm my own best teacher because no matter what is going on, the only person who can really teach me is me. Teachers and others can provide information and they can give me things to think about, but I'm still the one that has to deal with them. So I've learned that I'm actually my own best teacher. And I'm with you, I try not to react in adverse or negative ways, and beat myself up even when something just really doesn't go. Well. The real issue at that point isn't, what a scroungy lousy guy you are, but what do I learn from that? How can I improve it? Or can I improve it, it may very well be that there was absolutely nothing that can be done to improve the situation, because it was something that was totally out of my control   Eric Dates ** 30:34 completely. But that's, it's, it's funny how, in practice, it becomes so simple. But, you know, looking at it from the outside, in, it's very much one of the most difficult things you can do.   Michael Hingson ** 30:49 Again, it gets back down to a philosophy of life, and we're still the only people who can excite ourselves, or adopt philosophy that we think about. And we if we do it, right, we do it because we, in some ways, feel sympathetic or attracted to a particular attitude or philosophy. And that's kind of the way it really ought to be. But it is about developing a life philosophy 100%. So, clearly, you do philosophical thinking, who's your favorite philosopher?   Eric Dates ** 31:31 I've got a few. I'd say probably Peter Drucker is at the forefront of what I love to read. I just love the way his mind works. Phenomenal stuff. And another gentleman who actually is the person who introduced me to Peter Drucker, his name is Flint McLaughlin. He, in my opinion, is just one of the most intelligent and intellectual marketing philosophers ever exist, and should go down in history as such, because he has, he brings such an interesting perspective on every concept of what we do and, you know, associated with the cognitive aspect of how the human beings make decisions. And just I just love the way that guy talks. So I can't listen to him enough. So those are probably my two.   Michael Hingson ** 32:16 Yeah, I I've not met either. Course Now, Peter Drucker, not anyway. But what was it like meeting Peter Drucker? What kind of a person was he?   Eric Dates ** 32:27 Well, I didn't get to meet him. Unfortunately. I wish i You   Michael Hingson ** 32:29 were you were just introduced to him? Yeah. I was wondering, yeah, introduced sorry, to his to his works to his words. One of my favorite people is a guy named Patrick Lencioni. Are you familiar with him? Absolutely. And I like him, because I like the way he approaches teams. And one of the things that I say on a regular basis to people is that having now used eight guide dogs, I've learned so much more about team building and teamwork, from working with a guide dogs, and I've ever learned from Patrick Lencioni, Ken Blanchard, and all of the major experts on management, consulting and so on, because first of all, it is it is real, you you have to go right down into the weeds, if you will, you really have to put everything into practice. And when you're working with a dog, what you see is what you get, and that's the the thing that we lose with humans, because we're always just wondering, well, what's this person's real agenda, and can I trust them. And so we have taught ourselves to not be open to trust nearly as much as we can be. And dogs while they love unconditionally, as I've learned, I think over the years, just in observing them and thought about it, a lot, dogs do not trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that dogs unless there is some real traumatic experience they've had to undergo, dogs, at least are open to trust. And that ought to be a great lesson, we all could learn   Eric Dates ** 34:06 100% It's almost like with the amount of just from a macro level, the amount of untruthfulness that exists out there, and the amount of you know, false information tossed our way all the time from any which way we we're so cynical anymore, and I feel like consumers and just people in general have become so cynical and closed off as a as a reaction to that. So I to your point, I think having the humility there you because when you when you were saying that around the dogs, I just hear, you know, humility and humbleness to do so. And yeah, it's to get to that level would be it changed the world.   Michael Hingson ** 34:48 The other thing about dogs is that they all do have just like people, different personalities. I had one guide dog that only worked 18 months and as I described her to people, she had sort of a type A personality and could not leave work at the office. So at home, she followed me around, she wouldn't play with the other dogs, she would actually curl her lip at the other dogs in our house if they wanted to play. And it got to the point where she was so much on all the time, that she became fearful and became actually afraid to guide, she just couldn't take the stress that she really imposed on herself. And there's a great lesson there for so many of us who are people that we ought to learn that we can control stress and fear a lot more than we do.   Eric Dates ** 35:35 Absolutely. It's very interesting that, to see that I imagined in person, especially with with with an animal like that, you know, that's, that's going to be incredible. And with human beings. I think the the ability to clearly decipher between perception, and reality is what is at the root of that, because so many folks create this perception that they start to live it. And it compounds quickly, as you know, you know, talking about things like stress or whatnot, it's, it's almost addicted to itself. So yeah, having that ability to be humble, and inwardly reflect, but also know, I shouldn't react this way. Or I should actually be open to trusting this person, or whatever it may be. The simple decisions. Help starts with acknowledging the reality of the matter.   Michael Hingson ** 36:28 Yeah, being a marketing guy, why do you think we're sort of progressing that way, as opposed to learning more humility and being a little bit more humble about what we do?   Eric Dates ** 36:39 I think it's this subliminal mentality that stems from the screens, and in our hands every day that people are, everyone has a voice, and everyone is almost forced to listen to it. At this point, I feel like just based on habits, so as everyone welcomes all this information it wants into their mind. So unnatural, you know, in general, so it's, it creates a stressful environment on the human mind. And I think that aside, in the market, as a consumer, it's even more crazy, you know, people are giving you 85 different versions of a product to solve your problem. And they're all fantastic. What are you supposed to choose? Who are you supposed to believe? cetera, et cetera. And you know, that that stressful atmosphere that that atmosphere of cynicism and disbelief, of so many people are saying this, therefore, it must be wrong. It is now the status quo. And it's created just a very, very, very interesting shift in human behavior and consumer behavior across the board. And it's a little look a little nervous, to be honest, I think there's, there's that example of just because you can doesn't mean you should with certain aspects, tech and things like that to really engulf the human and almost make the reality irrelevant, and everything becomes digital. So I'm a little nervous about that. But we'd love to know your thoughts on where you think we're headed. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 38:09 I think you're, you're right. And I think that, unfortunately, people who ought to know better and who can help, perhaps deal with some of it won't. One of my favorite examples lately has been observing, news reporting, and I'm going to deal with specifically whether prognostication hearing California. Yeah. Okay, I can tell you, it's probably see where I'm going. We, we hear all the time now, because we've had marine layers and a lot of clouds, the May gray in the June gloom. And one of these days, we'll get sun again. But it's horrible because we don't get the sunshine. And then when we do get the sun for any period of time, then they talk about how hot it is, and the fire potential goes up and so on. There's no pleasing them. And because there's no pleasing them, we aren't pleased and the reality is, the so called may gray and the June Gloom are, in part what has thus far although it's early in the season, of course, but thus far, kept us from having more wildfires. They've kept it cooler, there's been some rice stir, and there's there's no perspective we've lost our ability to, to have any kind of perspective. And now we've got, you know, with our politicians and talking about all the things that are going on in the political arena, everything has become so political, that there's no room to step back or we don't get the opportunity or we won't take I should say the opportunity to step back and go wait a minute. What are these people really saying what of this really makes a lot of sense, as opposed to what what is actually coming out? On the news, you know, we've been hearing about politicians being indicted and so on. But all that's political. And it doesn't matter what the evidence shows. And of course, we don't know all the evidence in some of the cases. And like, in everything that we do, we have just created such incredible shifts. One of the things I think about is Bill Cosby. So now he's got nine women who have accused him of rape and other things like that. And maybe it's all true. But you know, what the other side of Bill Cosby is, he was a very funny guy for many years. And now a lot of people would say, well, we just can't have anything of his around anymore, because look at the guy he's become, or Woodrow Wilson was a racist. And I participated in a program for a few years called the Woodrow Wilson Fellowship Program, which was something that was created by an organization dealing with independent colleges. And they decided they had to drop the name Woodrow Wilson fellowship, because people started saying, Well, he was a racist. And maybe he was, but what about the rest of what he did? Or I collect old radio shows as a hobby. And I've seen a number of instances now where people are saying, well, Amos, and Andy should be completely thrown out because they're black. And they and the people who portrayed them were white and are totally misrepresenting black people. Really. We, we want to rewrite history, and not recognize the value that history brings. The The fact is with Amos and Andy, for example, in the 30s, and into the 40s. People would go on Saturday afternoons to the movie theaters for matinees. And when Amos and Andy came on, the show stopped, and everyone listened to Amos and Andy, the show was well loved. And the fact is that, was it really intentionally racist? Or was it entertainment that everyone laughed at and loved? It changed, of course, when Amos and he went to TV, and I didn't know that for a while, I didn't even know they were black. I didn't even think about it, you know, when the characters were, but it went to TV. And of course, then it was to people who who were black. And so that that caused a route. But the reality is that we don't put anything in perspective anymore, and look at all sides of things that we don't get to learn to do that. Because a lot of marketing, whether it's from the politicians or elsewhere, is all based on fear. And all they want to do is create fear reactions within us.   Eric Dates ** 42:38 Yep. No, I completely agree. And, you know, it's funny, that you're mentioning that you feel like, if anyone tries hard enough, you can find frustration in anything, you can find the bad in anything. I mean, I'm wearing a baseball hat right now. So you look at a hat of all the history of a hat and the original purpose of hats, you know, you could probably associate some sort of negative historical context with a hat. Therefore, if you wear a hat these days, you're misrepresenting someone who used to exist. So I think it almost goes back to this accepted level of ignorance, in my opinion, in this in society, because it's, it's, I only know what I know. But what I think you should think, whether we know the same amount of information or whatever, I've learned the full spectrum, or whatever it is, they've convinced themselves that what they think is fact. And we all know what, you know, people say about opinions. I think that's where people should let things lay, you know, is is the opinion is just that and you are 100% allowed to have it. But the second you start finding, I'm not sure if I've mentioned this in the past, but I'm a huge student of it a psychologist out there right now who has concepts around herd mentality in the herd. So these days with digital communities, and you basically have entire access to the world in your hands. You can go find a herd just about anywhere for just about anything. Which is that a false perspective of what I think is correct. It has to be because here's this finite group of people, whether it's 100, or even 100,000, you know, in global terms, that's a miniscule number, but it's enough for them to validate their own idea to themselves. So then they start standing on this hill that they apparently want to die on saying, You must hear me from my position I have X amount of people behind me that also believe this therefore, everyone else must think the way that we think and when you when you apply this to marketing, you know, I love the Bill Cosby reference because you know, how many people did he make laugh? Right? How many times did he make people laugh? And then how quickly are people to once they learn about behind the curtain? Completely, just count everything that they've ever enjoyed. But I see so much of a hypocritical nature there. Because if you were someone who laughed, and then later or someone who's upset, I don't, to me, the logic doesn't add up. So in marketing, to me, this is a masterclass on branding is the second that the expectation that this person set is not actually met, your brand starts to take. So with the Bill Cosby thing, he was making people laugh, he was doing things he had his own persona, his own brand. But the second he deviated from that, and they found something negative, that differ from the expectation in their brain. They hate the guy can't stand him and everything he's ever touched is terrible.   Michael Hingson ** 45:42 Rather than recognizing that what we really have are two things, what he was, and now what he is, which are two different things.   Eric Dates ** 45:52 Correct. And people need to realize that they are two completely separate things.   Michael Hingson ** 45:58 But you know, we've had people and over the last six years with with politics and so on during the Trump era, when reporters would say, but this is a fact. And then we hear, but there are alternative facts. They're there. They're challenging the definition of a fact. And that doesn't work that way. But unfortunately, once again, as you said, with the herd mentality, they've got enough of a herd that buys into it, that suddenly Well, there really are facts and alternative facts, rather than something that is factual. And what is an opinion.   Eric Dates ** 46:37 It all goes back. And I completely agree, it goes back to the search for confirmation, versus the search for truth. And I feel like people constantly become a victim, especially in a world of the internet, where you can honestly go find the answer to anything you want to hear in the way that you want to hear it. Right. So it's like people are constantly in search of confirmation of please tell me that what I'm thinking is correct versus what is correct. And that is the that's the mentality shift that I'm a little cynical on is this where the broader group of consumers are headed, just based on behavior, which as you look at digital marketing, and SEO, and all these other things, it's a dangerous road, because you could start to preach something that's not necessarily true. But you could convince people that it is and boom, you're left with a fire festival in the marketing realm where everyone's super excited to come see these artists that no one's actually playing. Yeah, thanks for your money.   Michael Hingson ** 47:34 Isn't it amazing? Well, and you know, last year, with all the stuff with Ticketmaster, and Taylor Swift and all that, a great performer. And still, it's a performance, it's entertainment. Yet people took it so personally, and of course, Ticketmaster, may very well have done some things that they shouldn't have done. But my gosh, the Dubrow over it was was incredible. There's, again, no, no medium, no midway, or no way to just try to put it in perspective and say, Okay, let's hold Ticketmaster responsible, but don't take it personally. Yes.   Eric Dates ** 48:15 I feel like that's the, the the unfortunate reality that we all live in now, because of all types of media, whether it's social, whether it's on television, whether its political, whether it's not, it's PayPal, and finally understood, it's so much easier to get people riled up about something than it is to get them to come together and fix something right. They'd love to point fingers, they'd love to throw stones. But when it comes to kind of building what they need to build, in order to never have to throw a stone again. That's, that's someone else's job. It's not someone   Michael Hingson ** 48:49 else's job. Whatever happened to Gandhi and be the change you want to see in the world?   Eric Dates ** 48:54 That's true. I feel like some folks have been taking that a little differently these days.   Michael Hingson ** 48:58 Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. Well, how are we going to change that? Do you have any thoughts or notions?   Eric Dates ** 49:07 I really think it's, it's by doing what you just mentioned, you know, you know, studying God is truth there is once you become what you need. You don't need it anymore. Right? You've you've become it and you now are the solution. So if you want to be the change that you want to see, leading by example, is the only way to do that. And I think it's often scary because back to the herd mentality, if you deviate from the herd enough, you know, fight or flight instinct kicks in and all sudden you're out in the open. Everyone's looking at you and you're terrified to make decisions. And that's where courage and I think that's something that's really lacking in a lot of individuals these days, whether it's from fear, whether it's from uncertainty, whatever it might stem from, it's who has the courage to step up and just start doing the right thing, not not tweeting about it, not putting it under Social mean idea, you're actually doing it right not playing the game, throw the game away and change the game and say this is my domain. Now here's how I'm going to approach this, people will eventually follow suit, I just think we need it on a larger scale with the right people to do so in a way that it's not captured by me to say that this is cheesy, or this is something you poke fun at, because now you have a lot of a lot of enemies who have a lot of real estate in the mind, that you're going to have to kind of overcome. But I think those who stay true, you know, through your courage to the sticking place, if you will, you won't, you won't fail, and we won't fail, and everything will get to a much better spot, I just think we need to unlock and empower those leaders who are all out there that are trying to do this, I think we'll just be stronger as a group, versus kind of the single twig that can snap, you know, you bunch them all together, and boom, it's it's a log.   Michael Hingson ** 50:58 Yeah. What kind of mindset do marketers need to establish within themselves to truly become successful and, and help bring that change about? And how do we make that happen?   Eric Dates ** 51:13 That's it that is a tough one it but it's a fantastic question. Because it's something that a lot of people should ask themselves quite often. And it's always a fine line between you're hired to do a job, right? You're You're tasked with a business goal, if you have to grow us from X to Y, or from Y to Z, whatever may be in you know, ABC amount of time. Knowing that that's a task. I think it's just having the humility and courage to not cross into the gray area, where it becomes manipulation of, hey, I can, I can almost persuade you to go do something because you understand these powerful tools that you can unlock in the in the brain. So I think it's, it's really just be a amplifier of truth. Constantly, whether it whether the product is good or not. tell the true story. And set the right expectation of something that you can deliver on don't sell the vision. Right, that that's not your job. As a marketer, your job is to sell reality to that person, so they can make the right decision going back to your point in sales. And I think more people need to stay true to the craft of over deliver information, provide context, establish an expectation for what you can do, and what you will do. And let the people choose accordingly. Because that That, to me is the beauty of a free market. It's the beauty of when people can make decisions based on supply and demand because they put the demand in there, you know, in a world full of supply.   Michael Hingson ** 52:54 Yeah, interesting concept of over deliver information. But it is relevant and true. And of course, it's also delivering the right information, which goes back to truth. And I don't personally think that there are really different kinds of truth. I think that it goes back to facts and alternative facts, there is truth. And what it really comes down to is we need to ask the right questions. And consumers need to learn to ask the right questions and maybe marketing and other people who are involved in setting the trends need to teach us how to ask and what to ask for the right questions.   Eric Dates ** 53:38 Absolutely, it goes back to, to ethics and leading with that for if you truly want the customer to be first, I think to simplify it. do just that.   Michael Hingson ** 53:55 Do you distinguish between? and I'm I'm thinking about this? Because I thought about the whole discussion that we had about sales and selling products and being truthful about that. How do you define or what do you think about the differences between personal success and professional success? Because that's an interesting thing. You're professionally successful if you're for your sales guy, for example, if you're selling lots of stuff and people are buying from you, but that doesn't necessarily lead to personal success and what's the difference? And what are they   Eric Dates ** 54:27 another phenomenal question I think with with today's social atmosphere, and how we're constantly you know, being influenced if you will, which I think is a really really funny term. But these influencers out there who are you know, these people trust for a variety of reasons are created by created by the consumer themselves because again, it goes back to that search for confirmation of like, I think I want this but I need someone to tell me that this is the right thing to get So that's a really good, good question.   Michael Hingson ** 55:05 Yeah, because in reality, rather than saying, I need somebody to tell me, it's the right thing, it would seem to me that what we should do is to say, I need to get the information from sources to decide whether it's the right thing or not. And if I'm not confident, then maybe there's something else I need to learn. And there's something there's nothing wrong with experts. There's nothing wrong with people who really no one has ever said. But by the same token, it still comes down to you should check all sides of it, whatever it happens to be, and then decide what the right thing is. Because the fact is that the right thing for you may not be the right thing for me. And that doesn't make the decision for either of us wrong.   Eric Dates ** 55:52 Absolutely. And I think as we look at defining the personal side of success, I think becoming more aware of these things that exist in marketing, and in business alone, I mean, just just being a smarter consumer, in my opinion, today will help people gain that success, whatever that looks like. Because if you can't fall victim to marketing, manipulation, or you know, persuasion out in the market to go make decisions that you didn't necessarily want to make or wasn't the right one, because you were tricked, whatever it may be. I think that that realization of being cognizant of what's going on what those triggers are, so you don't fall victim to it, start to open up the right way to more clearly define what success looks like for that individual. Because now your mind is free. And to me, that's the precursor to personal success is how do you unlock your own mind, from a place of being controlled professionally, I think it's it to me, it's no different than sports in the way I believe this, it's, it's professionally is whatever your goals are for yourself in this role, whether you want to achieve the CEO or whatever you want to achieve. And you go get it like celebrate that win, because it's something you want it to go do for you to understand why totally different discussion. But if you if you, you know wholeheartedly believe that that's what you want to go do as a professional, you want to, you know, win a championship, win a Super Bowl, you want to have an exit with a, an acquisition, or m&a activity, whatever it may be. That's okay. That's a great goal professionally, but I think separating the two is where people start to win. Because they know that there are two difference. Because you know, professions only exist because of money. Right? If you really look at it, it's you're getting paid to do something, therefore you are professional. That's it. But as your personal stuff should be a little bit separate, in my opinion. But that's that's just my my thought on that matter.   Michael Hingson ** 57:50 Well, I would agree and goals, by the way can evolve. So you may start out wanting to be a champion or acquire a company or become a CEO. And it may very well be that as you work towards something, you'll decide that well maybe that's really not what was best for me and you should be open to looking doesn't mean you have doubt, but you should be open to evaluating what you do regularly. You did. And you you migrated. And that seemed to work pretty well. You know, we call this unstoppable mindset what? What would you suggest to people in terms of how they can develop an unstoppable mindset, mindset.   Eric Dates ** 58:31 Love that, to me is the word that stares me in the face is mind, right? Just the root of all of that comes to understanding your own mind. Not everyone else is just focused on your own right understand what makes you tick, understand what makes you frustrated, you know, put in the time of thinking every day and just challenge yourself understand things seek truth in yourself. Don't think validation or seek validation and other people's thoughts and opinions? Or or god forbid the internet. You know, really just be cognizant of who you actually are. And I think once you understand that there's your starting point, to start figuring out, how do I stay this person? Is it first of all, is this the person you want to stay? As? That's a great question to ask. But once you figure out that this is me, and this is who I want to be. That to me is is the unstoppable mindset part because now you're concrete in your conclusion that this is me, and I accepted and proud of who I am. And now everything else out there is just how do I go? Get it done? Because you already done the hard part of figuring out yourself   Michael Hingson ** 59:47 and it is all about you understanding you and I totally agree with you. And that's a great way to bring this conversation to a close because I think it will give all of us a lot to think about out. And I do want to thank you for being here with us. How do people reach out to you maybe learn more about you and learn what you do and how they can maybe interact with you?   1:00:10 Absolutely. The one social platform that I am on is LinkedIn. And I'm completely accessible, happy to chat with anyone, anytime. How do they find it and just search for Eric Dates, I believe I'm one of the few. And I'm happy to share out the LinkedIn URL that we can toss in the bottom of this at some point. But yeah, never hesitate to reach out if there's something you'd like to talk about any subject, not just marketing, or philosophy or, or consumers or anything like that. Anything. I just welcomed the community.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:41 We'll make sure it's in the in the notes, by all means. Well, I want to thank you again for being here with us. I do have one last question. What do you do when you're not working?   Eric Dates ** 1:00:53 I've got two beautiful kids who I love playing with all the time. I love putting on my kid hat because for me, that is who I am. I'm just a grown up kid. And I love playing with them. You know, I love the family life. And they got an incredible mom who we play with all the time. And yeah, I love playing with my family. So that's, that's what I tried to do the most. Because for me, as we looked at, in really in the mind, that's, that's what's very important to me. So I want to make sure I get a part of that, or as much of that as I can on a daily basis.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:24 And that is cool. And that's the way it really should be. Well, thanks again for being here. And I want to thank you for listening. If you would please give us a five star review at read five star review. If I could talk I'd be in lovely shape. Give us a five star review. Wherever you're listening to us, we would appreciate it. Always love your comments. I always love your thoughts. So please feel free to pass them on. You can reach me Michaelhi I M i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to Michael hingson H i n g s o n.com/podcast. Love to hear from you. And Eric, for you and all of you listening if you have any thoughts of people who we ought to have as a guest, please let me know. We are always looking to meet more people and have more great conversations and really, hopefully help make the world a little bit better place by everything that we do. So please don't hesitate to reach out and Eric once more. Thank you very much for being here with us and spending the last hour with us today.   Eric Dates ** 1:02:27 Absolutely. Michael, thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure. I hope it gets to do it again.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:02:36 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. T

Kim is as unstoppable as it gets. Born and raised in the Boston area she became very interested in entertainment. After a bit, someone convinced her to go into sales which she did and has been involved with ever since. For the past 20 years she has been a professional financial advisor.   Nine years ago she decided to invoke both sides of her brain by starting her own production company, Miles In Heels productions. She is an event strategist which she will explain.   Of course, since Kim was in sales we talk a lot this time about sales, what makes great sales people and how sales professionals can and should do more to relate to their customers. I'm not going to give everything away. I hope very much you enjoy and are inspired by our episode with Kim. About the Guest: Kim Miles (TEDx Speaker, Executive Producer & Event Strategist, Serial Connector & Shoe Collector) What do you call a successful businesswoman with a vibrant financial advisory practice, more than 30 years of sales experience, a background in performing, and a serious shoe habit? Kim Miles! Through her company, Miles in Heels Productions (milesinheels.com), Kim is a highly sought-after TEDx speaker, emcee, creative collaborator and event strategist who partners with her clients to deliver critical messaging to their key audiences in fresh, unexpected and entertaining ways. No matter the format, live or virtual, from ideation to execution, Miles in Heels Productions is the answer. When you need to think outside of the box and laugh while you're learning, look no further: if Oprah and Ellen had a love child, it would be Kim Miles. Kim creates mic-drop moments for her clients by using both the left and right sides of her brain, simultaneously. She brings her business acumen AND her creative lens to every problem-solving scenario. From securing A-list talent to comprehensive content creation by way of video production and copywriting, Kim's goal is to make sure each client is attracting its perfect audience. Kim has worked with the likes of comedians Fran Drescher, Judy Gold, and Jackie Fabulous to Broadway actors like Miguel Cervantes (Hamilton), to celebrity chefs such as Karen Akunowicz (Top Chef/James Beard Winner) to bring star power to her clients' events. Major clients include The Massachusetts Conference for Women, Babson College, Ropes & Gray, Worcester Women's Leadership Conference, Wellesley College, Winchester Hospital/Lahey Health, Women's Bar Association and Foundation of Massachusetts, Yankee Dental Congress, Foundation for Business Equity, League of Women Voters of Massachusetts, Goulston & Storrs Counsellors at Law, College of The Holy Cross, MassChallenge, Women in Technology International, Colwen Hotels, Regis College, Bryant University Women's Summit, MetroWest Conference for Women and many more. She's a member of The WIN Lab Coaching Circle at Babson College, the Innovation Women Speakers Bureau, and the GDA Speakers Bureau. Kim is widely known as a powerhouse problem solver, kick-a** content creator, and a hilarious humorist. When she's not working, Kim has been known to take off her signature heels only to hit the slopes or the golf course…that is when she's not singing with her band! Ways to connect with Kim: WEBSITE: www.milesinheels.com TEDx Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/kim_miles_surviving_the_big_c_conformity LINKEDIN: Kim Miles/Miles in Heels Productions: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-miles-00342294/ INSTAGRAM: @Kimmilesinheels: https://www.instagram.com/kimmilesinheels/ FB: Miles in Heels Productions/Kim Miles: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Miles-In-Heels-Productions/752242571474563 TWITTER: @KimMilesinHeels: https://twitter.com/kimmilesinheels YOUTUBE: Miles in Heels Productions: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTD-99e7kYl1byWqSMzQVkw?view_as=subscriber About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes **Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. **Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi once again. And yes. And well. Hi there, too. You too. And hi to everyone listening. Welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Today, we get to visit with Kim Miles. And Kim has a company with a very clever name. And I'm gonna let her tell you because I don't want to spoil it. And she has a lot of interesting stories to tell. She's a very creative individual by any standard. And I really am glad that you're going to spend some time with us today. So welcome aboard, Kim. **Kim Miles ** 01:52 No, I feel honored. Thank you. It was really so great to get to know you on our initial call. And it's just been fun learning about you and and accessiBe ever since. So I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. **Michael Hingson ** 02:05 Yeah, one of the things that we do for those who may not really have caught on over the last number of episodes is before we do a podcast, I love to get a chance to meet virtually in person, whoever is going to come on the podcast because it's great to get to know them and for them to get to know me and make sure we're all comfortable with the podcast, which is as you all know, a conversation. And so Kim and I connected and here we are. So I'm very glad you're here. And I expect that we will have fun today. I agree. I agree. And you are in Boston, and what's the temperature back there? **Kim Miles ** 02:41 We cannot seem to get out of our own way. We have literally we had the most glorious Memorial Day weekend, which we don't typically have. So that was a surprise. It was absolute perfection. And then ever since then we've really been it's been cold here. Everybody's been joking around that they put away their winter coats far too early. And so we are really hovering in the 50s and 60s here where we're trying desperately to warm up. So we were praying for warmer weather, but it'll come it'll come and then we'll be complaining. It's too hot. We're now trying England. We're never happy in New England. **Michael Hingson ** 03:13 You know, it's not just New England. I am fascinated when I listen to weather prognosticators like out here. When it's really hot, of course, we have greater chances of fires wildfires, right used to be called forest fires. But now Smokey Bear calls them wildfires, anyway, whatever. But the the issue is that when it's really hot, the whole Southern California area is much more susceptible to fires. And so now, we have also primarily had much cooler weather, it's going to get up to 72. Today, they say it's 67 outside right now and it's about 1135 in the morning. But the thing is that what people have been complaining about the weather people is the May gray in the June gloom. You know, they're complaining about that every single weather forecast I always hear about the May gray or the June Gloom is still with us. The Marine layers there, we're not getting the sun. But you are absolutely right. What's going to happen is once it starts to really heat up, then they're going to complain about it being too hot and the chance of fires. There's no pleasing them and they teach us all that which is unfortunate. **Kim Miles ** 04:29 Well, I don't know if you know the saying but if you live in New England and you don't like the weather, just wait a minute, it'll change. **Michael Hingson ** 04:36 I lived in with her for three years and spent a lot of time in the Boston area. So I understand, ya know, how **Kim Miles ** 04:42 do we know exactly. **Michael Hingson ** 04:44 New Englanders are very opinionated. I remember a couple of times. At the beginning of baseball season the Red Sox lost the first game of the season. And the immediate thing I started hearing from everyone is wait till next year. **Kim Miles ** 04:57 Well, here's what the old adage says As though the seasons are not one in April, but they are last in April. So if you don't have a strong start in April, you're likely doomed. Of course, crazier things have happened. But that is the old adage. And yeah, we were very spoiled here in Boston, I have to say I have a conversation with a friend of mine who lives out out west and, and he's always saying, Do you know do you know lucky you guys aren't you know, spoiled you guys are that you have a team in every sport to look forward to. And I realize we're spoiled. I understand that completely. But it's, you know, when you're a born and bred New Englander, you get used to it. And you know, we have high standards for sports teams, I suppose. **Michael Hingson ** 05:40 Or at least, or maybe lower high standards for fans. It's hard to say **Kim Miles ** 05:47 to Shay, **Michael Hingson ** 05:49 I remember when Steve Grogan was the quarterback for the Patriots. And people didn't like him. And they actually booed him off the field one game, which was, I thought a little bit amazing. I heard of that concept before, but never actually saw it. But of course, I also was back in Boston living there. When Michael Rooney ruzi. Oni and the Olympic team in 1981. Hockey against the Russians. **Kim Miles ** 06:15 Yes, that was yeah, that's if you've ever seen the movie. That movie is such an amazing, you know, a such an amazing movie. The story of it is it's one of the greats, it's one of the one of the sports greats. **Michael Hingson ** 06:27 Yeah, well, and by any standard it is, by any standard, any standard. That is it was great. And it was wonderful. And that was the year I think they also introduced first night in Boston. And he and I think some of the team made an appearance at a couple of the subway stations. So it was kind of fun. **Kim Miles ** 06:48 That's back in the day. That's what in the **Michael Hingson ** 06:51 day, right? Yeah, back in the day. Well, tell us a little bit about you, maybe the the younger kid growing up and all that. And let's see how we get to where we are now. **Kim Miles ** 07:01 Absolutely. Well, I think that that's always the question, right? How is it that you did get to where you are now it's always or you hope that it's an interesting story? I think in my case that it is **Michael Hingson ** 07:10 much, much, much less how not only how you get there, but where are you? No, that's okay, go ahead. **Kim Miles ** 07:15 Exactly. Well, you know, for me, I've always been a very, very creative kid, I was always a very creative person, I was always the one who gravitated toward theater and music, I've been singing my whole life. And I definitely, you know, have a huge appreciation for the arts, and sports, but definitely for the arts. And, you know, all through high school I sang with, you know, state choirs, and I was on stage with all my performances. And when I went and lived in Manhattan after I graduated, I joined a very large chorus there, which was a very renowned chorus in New York, it was a Greek Orthodox choir. And that was a beautiful, beautiful thing. And every step of my, I would say, of my life, there's always been something creative going on. So much so that I went to school specifically for television, radio and film production. That is, I went to Syracuse University at the Newhouse School of Communications. And I graduated with a television, radio and film production degree. And so for me, you know, my my final exams or putting together and producing television shows and writing scripts and producing CDs, I'm sure that there are a lot of younger people will be listening to this and not remembering what CDs are, but gotten deeper, the hot technology, you know, so those were my final exams. And when I, when I graduated, I drove straight to New York City from Syracuse, the same week, I graduated. And I was trying desperately to get a job in what for me felt was my goal, which was my ideal job. I because I loved sports and grew up so much with sports, I really wanted to do what, what I call sports package production. So if you ever watch any of the, you know, any of the championship games, or if you watch the Olympics, they always do human interest stories on the athletes, there's always a story behind the athlete. And so or story behind the team, right, or how the team got to where they are. So those packages that we call them, somebody has to produce those, somebody has to write the scripts and edit the footage and pick the music. And that was the stuff that I love to do. It's kind of funny now, if you think now, everybody has access to that on their iPhone, right? So in their own hand, they can edit a story, they can edit a reel on Instagram, they can make their own little movie on their phone, but back in the day, you know, that was something a bit more a bit more specific to the industry. And so that's what I really wanted to do. And that was back in in the 90s and And I, I had interviews at the NBA, I wanted to work at the NBA. And even back in the 90s, they didn't really hire a lot of women so. So I was a professional waitress for a while, until I got my big break. And I finally got a job with a couple of different commercial production companies. And some of their clients were Burger King, and Lancome. And so I watched these people make these commercials that you would see on TV. And then I got a job working for a management company, who was a manager for a lot of very famous comedians. And those comedians were very unhappy people, it was a very interesting job, because it was a very sort of, it kind of gave me an introduction to like the dark underbelly of the business. And I realized very quickly that that was not really for me. So a friend of mine, actually acknowledged something in me that I didn't see in myself. But she said, you know, Kim, you're such a people person. And you're great with people and people really respond to you, you really should try your hand at sales. And so I actually pivoted to a very, very long and lucrative career in technology sales in Manhattan. And I was doing that up until 911, which is something of course, you and I have in common. We've talked a lot about that. And, of course, your story is profound, and everybody has their story. And I work down there as well. And we've shared those stories. But it was time for me to go home after 911. And so I came back to Boston. And when I came back to Boston, I actually was trying to figure out what I wanted to do when I grew up. And so I was meeting with different people and having different cups of coffee. And my father came to me one day, and he said, you know, Kim, I think you should meet this gentleman that I just met, he was an accountant. And he now is a financial advisor, and he works for this life insurance company, I think you should have a cup of coffee with him. And I looked at my father and I said, Dad, I'm your only daughter due to me. I don't I don't know how it is that you want me to go sell life insurance. But here I am 20 years later, and I've been a very successful financial advisor for 20 years for the same company. And I love what I do. But that creative side of me, has always been with me and has always been the kind of thing where I, you know, wanted it to be a part of my life. And so nine years ago, I launched my production company, miles in hills productions. And that was really born out of something very specific, which was I was volunteering my time and my efforts for my local Chamber of Commerce. And I was doing all sorts of event production for them and raising them all sorts of money. And after doing that, for them on a volunteer basis for 10 years, I realized that I could put my own moniker on my talents and offer my talents and my services to lots of different organizations and companies. And so nine years ago, miles in heels was born. And so I run my two businesses side by side, which makes me a bit of a unicorn, using my right brain and my left brain on, on off on all facets. And so that's where, you know, the creative side, me gets to come in, and I get to play and do what I like to do through miles and hills productions. Cool. **Michael Hingson ** 13:27 Well, a question that I have, going back to what you talked about earlier regarding the whole concept of producing the information for athletes and so on. Do you produce those into they oftentimes just sit in the can waiting for someone to come along? Who needs them? Or usually just produce them when they're needed? **Kim Miles ** 13:55 Are you talking about me specifically what I produce for my clients? Are you talking about the people who work in the industry for the athletes? I'm thinking **Michael Hingson ** 14:01 in general does does a lot of that stuff get produced in advance? And then it sits until it's needed? Or do you? You anyone? **Kim Miles ** 14:09 No, I think that those are very specific asks, right, there's usually a very specific initiative that they're producing those four, I certainly know that in the case with my clients where we're producing a package for something very specific, we're trying to promote an an event or there's some sort of a milestone that they're trying to promote. But in the case of athletes, those are very much. Those are very timely, right, those things that are going on right in the moment. Right. So case in point right now we're in the NBA Finals, and you know, there are a lot of really wonderful human interest stories about how those two teams got there. As far as you know, Miami right now, those were they were the eighth seed, so they weren't really expected to do as well as they've done in the NBA Finals. They beat the Celtics. So, you know, number two seed, we weren't happy about that. The point is, is that they're they're definitely going out and they're producing packages that are timely and germane. to what's going on right now, for sure. Now, I **Michael Hingson ** 15:02 know in the case of obituaries, and so on, it's a little different animal, and I'm sure they do a lot of preparation. And if someone happens to pass, it's amazing how fast that gets up, they must have a lot of that already done and stored away and ready to **Kim Miles ** 15:15 technology today, what's amazing is how accessible footage is. Right? So think about the statisticians who are commenting during the game. So these commentators who are calling the game or you know, you're, you're listening to these people, they've got people feeding those stats, right? You're right. You know, it's amazing what technology can do, you can bring up that information and those stats at the drop of a hat. So be able to get that footage, it's just that those people who are in production, like myself, it's poring over that footage. And you know, that's the really sort of, that's the cumbersome part of it. It's like it's a labor of love, but you have to pour over that sort of information and that, that, that footage to get the right footage, and then string it all **Michael Hingson ** 15:59 together. And it's so much easier today, to do that and to edit it and to produce something that is we're seeing because our whole world of technology has made that a lot easier. I know, when I worked in radio, back in college, which goes back to the 70s when you wanted to edit something you cut and spliced tape, and I was never a great splicer. But now of course, with digital audio editors, it's amazing. **Kim Miles ** 16:30 Well, just again, back to my original point, which is I'm floored by what you can accomplish on your iPhone. I mean, it you know, you can master some significant editing on your iPhone, and they're always changing the technology up. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's definitely a lot easier to do. And the technology has come so so far. So but you know, creating those stories, I think that really, the editing has tons to do with it. The music that is chosen the vibe, the scripting, but it's the storytelling. Everybody loves to hear stories, that's what they relate to, and you more than anybody with your amazing book and your amazing story, you know, people gravitate towards storytelling, and that's what ends up resonating with them. And that's that that stories become long lasting for them. And it's the same in sports, it's same in the arts, it's the same anywhere. So **Michael Hingson ** 17:22 it is the same anywhere. And you know, any really good salesperson is all about telling stories. **Kim Miles ** 17:30 They're, they're about telling stories, and they're also about, you know, being really relatable. You know, for me, the reason why I have had such a wonderful career, both in technology sales and in the financial services industry, is not necessarily because I'm the smartest person in the room. It's because I know about relationship building, and relationship cementing and about relationship selling. And think about yourself as a consumer, right? If you are having an experience that you're not enjoying, how many times have you gone on to maybe work with somebody else, whether it's door or on the phone, or whatever. I mean, that's just sort of a fact of life. And I feel that when the relationship is cemented first, and that trust is built, and of course, you have to be smart. But I think that that's the foundation first. And then the the sort of the acumen comes almost second in a way. **Michael Hingson ** 18:24 And you also have to be honest and straightforward. And not mislead, especially when you're in sales, which all too often happens. The the best again, the best salespeople are people who are honest about what they have, what they do and what they can do, and not new for a particular customer. Well, it only **Kim Miles ** 18:43 takes one bad experience for somebody to be soured on something, right. So a lot of times people are so in my financial services practice, somebody will come to me and they'll say, you know, I haven't had the best experience with financial advisors in the past. And my job is to change that for them. I want them to have a good experience. I want them to feel good about the planning that they're doing for themselves, their businesses, their families. But it's the same thing. When I work with my clients with miles and hills productions. Let's say that they had a terrible experience running an event once and now they're hiring me to come in and help them run an event. I want that experience to change them. I want them to have a different experience altogether. And I want them to have a completely positive taste in their mouth. I don't want them to have a negative taste in their mouth. That's part of my job. You know, so I agree it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. And fortunately, **Michael Hingson ** 19:30 it does and in and it only takes one mistake on the part of a salesperson to lose that relationship because we're so geared toward not necessarily trusting that it tends to be a challenge to **Kim Miles ** 19:46 Yeah, I mean, this is a tough time to live in. I mean, let's talk about the fact that there's a lot of mistrust that's being sort of spread and perpetuated. And while social media can be bought The blessing and a curse. Unfortunately, sometimes technology can work against us where, you know, sometimes misinformation is what is being put forth. And so it's getting harder and harder, especially with AI to discern what is accurate and truthful and real. And those can be some scary things. So, you know, in terms of something that I hold to the highest esteem is, is integrity, right, and honesty, and and, you know, I only have this one reputation. And so it means everything to me to make sure that I'm protecting it. And to make sure that, as my mother always said, if you if you always do the right thing, you never have to wonder if you did the right thing. I live by that so **Michael Hingson ** 20:46 well. And that makes perfect sense. If you always do the right thing, you never have to worry about doing the right thing, which makes a lot of sense. How did you come up with the name miles in heels productions? **Kim Miles ** 21:00 Well, you know, after having done so much work, like I said, on a volunteer basis for one particular organization. And when I wanted to put forth my own company and put my own stamp on things and really go out to other organizations, I needed something that was going to really encapsulate for me, what I'm all about what I'm known for, and really what I stand for. And so for me, I have a complete, as you can see right here, and those watching my little magic red shoe, I mean, I have a complete shoe obsession, I'm known for my shoes, they are my favorite accessory in the whole world. And so I really became synonymous with my shoe collection. And so the fact that my last name is Miles, thanks to my husband. You know, walking a mile in heels, is a great metaphor for life, and for women who are doing things outstanding every day, and sometimes having to try a little bit harder as a female. And so for me, miles in heels was it was actually the first name, I thought that it wasn't even hard, it was something that just kind of really came to me and putting my talents and skills in my offerings under the umbrella of a production company just made sense, because I do wear a lot of different hats for my clients when it comes to miles and hills productions. And so having that global umbrella of a production company just made sense for me, but miles in heels was just an obvious choice. And it was it came to me quickly, and it stuck. So **Michael Hingson ** 22:29 and it makes perfect sense. Especially the way you explain it. So what's the company logo? **Kim Miles ** 22:36 Well, the company logo is actually two high heeled shoes facing each other forming the shape of an M. So it's, it's trademarked. And it was one of the first things I did because I was not willing to part with that my genius brand strategists who's a dear dear friend of mine, she and I worked on the brand from day one. And she's the person who you know, has helped me bring my brand to life. And so yeah, my logo is very, very, very representative wholeheartedly and comprehensively of who I am and what my company is. **Michael Hingson ** 23:11 So you are still doing financial advising well, also operating miles in heels productions. **Kim Miles ** 23:18 Yeah, I have to tell you. So you know, my 20 years of being a financial advisor has given me incredible business acumen in order to be able to run my businesses. And you know, when you are a financial advisor, you really are running your own business. And so it was, I don't want to say it was easy to launch a second business, but I certainly knew what I was doing. And I've been very fortunate in the respect that I am somebody who's highly motivated, highly, highly organized, and definitely can, you know, wear both hats simultaneously, they complement each other really beautifully. And I feel very blessed that I'm able to fashion my day and my week and my month and my year, the way I need to to be able to accommodate both my businesses, and it's just been for the past nine years. It's been such a beautiful experience. And both of them, both of the businesses help each other. And I'm really proud to have been able to sustain my business for 20 years and launch new business at the same time. **Michael Hingson ** 24:16 When you're running the business, especially miles and hills productions. What are some of the most fun projects and the most fun things that you've done? And why are they kind of more fun to do than other things? **Kim Miles ** 24:30 That's a great question. I mean, for me, I get incredibly jazzed about first of all, I love I love connecting people, right? So my Twitter handle is serial connector and shoe collector. I really love bringing people together in a convivial atmosphere. I love connecting people I love mentoring people, lifting people up, helping people and collaborating with people. So one of my favorite things to do And it's certainly what I'm probably the most known for, is when organizations or companies are coming to me in two different elements, the first element they'll come to me with is, Can we've been running this event, this fundraiser, this gala, this banquet, this business conference, we've been running this for the past, you know, 1015 20 years. And it's been great. But we recognize that we need to evolve, we need to really add a little bit of life to, to this and have a new spin on it, we'd like you to come in and really resurrect this event. So I'd love to get in there, get my hands dirty, and everything from ideation to execution, in terms of concept, branding, a list talent, how we're going to market the event, how we're going to raise money for the event, all of that strategy I love. The second way a client will come to me is that they'll say that they have an idea for an event, but they don't know how to go about bringing it to fruition. And so again, getting in on that ground floor and bringing all my areas of expertise. I just really love when the end result is you got you know, 200 500,000 people in a room, and they're all coming together for a common purpose for a common gathering. And they leave better than when they came, right. That's my biggest reward. They come to that event. They say things like, that was the most special fundraiser I've been to that was the most fun, I met the best people. I felt great when I left I you know, moving people, and it's like storytelling, right? Having them leave and feel differently than when they came in or started. Is my goal as an event strategist. **Michael Hingson ** 26:39 Now you call yourself an event strategist? How is that different than event planning? as it were? **Kim Miles ** 26:45 Yeah, that's a great question. And it's one that I'm constantly explaining, because it's so critical. So I do call my cellphone event strategist and an executive producer. And the reason why that's different than an event planner, is because I actually have to hire event planners for my event. So event planners really usually focus on things like catering and lighting and linens and, you know, bartending services and things of that nature. For me. I'm really the event strategist and the executive producer event, I'm really talking about what is the messaging of this event? What is our goal with this event? Are we fundraising? How do we structure our sponsorship opportunities? How do what do you what do you want the messaging to be to your attendees? What kind of speakers are we going to get? What kind of ageless talent do we have to get? How do we get people to sign up for this event, and again, leave them feeling better than when they came. So I'm really digging in at a completely different level than an event planner. And as I said, at the top of the hour, you know, I'm a bit of a unicorn in this space, because people hire me for both my business acumen and my creative side, because both sides of my brain are working at the same time, all the time. And so I'm not just a creative, I'm paying attention to margins, I'm paying attention to strategy. I'm paying attention to branding and content creation for my clients. So there's a lot more that goes into it than, you know, simply making the room look pretty event planners are necessary and critical. I'm not at all dismissing or diminishing what they do, I need them. I need fantastic event planners to come into my event and help me create an amazing environment. So I hire event planners to come in as part of my event strategy to create the vibe that I need for my clients. **Michael Hingson ** 28:28 At the same time, you're as you said, or as Emeril Lagasse would say, kicking it up a notch. And you are, you are enhancing the event. And I'm sure that one of the most gratifying things for you is when someone comes up to you after an event and says we've never had an event like this here. Before. **Kim Miles ** 28:50 That we'll QUESTION I mean, unequivocally, you know, and I'm proud to say that at all of my events, somebody has always come up to me after factory scouting after the fact. And they've said, I saw you, you know, on stage, you were emceeing this event, or I noticed that you produce this event and I had such a good time at that event. We want to work with you for this event for the same kind of magic or when it comes to fundraising. I think one of the things I'm most proud of is that I can unequivocally say that for all the clients who hire me, even if they're paying me my fee, when it comes to fundraising, I am instilling practices and strategies for them where they are absolutely knocking their fundraising goals out of the park. And for a lot of my fundraising clients that I work with, we have consistently over the past nine years, raised more money each year from working with me than the year prior. And that's something I'm incredibly proud of, because the the causes that I work with are incredibly worthy. And fundraising means everything to them. It's how they keep their lights on. It's how they tell they help their clients. So for me, that's one of the biggest compliments. So Are **Michael Hingson ** 29:52 most of the events that you do with more not for profits doing fundraising do you do events for or work with corporations on internal meetings and so on that they might produce **Kim Miles ** 30:04 all of the above. It's not, it's not limited, it really isn't limited. You know, I love to come in when it's a business kickoff meeting. And, you know, case in point, I came into a law firm, sort of when we were just coming out of COVID, you know, just really coming out of COVID. And they really needed to get people excited about coming back into the office. And so we did an onsite for them. And it really got people more comfortable and more excited about coming back. But, you know, nonprofits and fundraising is an arena, that's very dear to my heart. For me, I have to be, I have to be excited, or the cause has to align with me as a person. You know, there have been clients who have approached me in the past and have wanted to hire me, but I knew in my gut that maybe it just wasn't the right fit or great fit. And so, you know, you politely decline. But for the most part, I just really enjoy being able to work on things that get me excited, or that I'm excited about the cause. Yeah. **Michael Hingson ** 31:06 How about doing virtual events? Have you done many of those? Or is that a, I assume it's somewhat of a different animal, because you're not necessarily doing the same kind of contact when everyone is in the room? But do you? Do you do many? Or have you done many virtual events? And how do those work out? **Kim Miles ** 31:22 I love this question, I have to say that when COVID hit and it was 2020, and we all pivoted to the world of virtual, I had one of my most banner years in 2020, because I had to scramble to learn about virtual production, like everybody else. But everybody else needed to hire somebody at the helm, to be able to continue to do their fundraising to continue to do their events, because the world didn't stop as we saw. And so we needed to move forward. And so I was hired by all sorts of organizations to pivot to help them with virtual events. And it was a skill that I took up very, very quickly. And I aligned myself with the right technology partners, which I'm, you know, I still work to, to this day. So I always say that, you know, my company specializes in event strategy and an executive production for live virtual and hybrid events, because still to this day, there are people who are still putting on hybrid components to their to their events. **Michael Hingson ** 32:19 Do you think that will continue? Or do you think if COVID doesn't come back, we're going to kind of forget about the whole concept of hybrid **Kim Miles ** 32:25 COVID is coming back, it's already back in China, it's on its way, there's no question about another wave. So I think COVID is something we're always going to live with. What I think has changed profoundly in the marketplace is that I think people are adjusting to the levels of productivity, of being able to do things in a hybrid fashion, and that companies are excited about the fact that they have a broader reach now that they have a virtual component that they can rely on so that they can reach more people to offer a hybrid offering. I don't think it's going away. I think that it sort of depends on what the mission and the goal is for that particular event or organization. So I think that it's not going away, will it be as prominent, perhaps not. But I think it's hard where we've gone, where the pendulum has swung that way. And you've given that offering, it's a little bit harder to go back the other way and to leave that offering off the table. Especially if you've expanded your audience, you don't want to alienate those people that you've you know, that you've opened your your world up to. **Michael Hingson ** 33:29 Yeah, I know, for me, as a speaker, I have a challenge with doing virtual events, although I love doing them. It certainly is convenient. But the challenge is that as I am speaking, I don't get some of the same input that I get when I'm in a room with a live audience. If I say something, and I've worked on speeches, so I know what typically to expect from an audience when I make a particular statement or lead them down a particular path to get to a particular place. And when I can hear those reactions, it helps and I don't get that information. When I do a virtual presentation. And I'm sure there are equivalents for people who can see the screens as well, you're not going to see the same stuff. But having done so many presentations live, I can pretty much tell by working with the people who are coordinating the event, I can get a pretty good idea of what the audience is going to be like. So doing a virtual event doesn't scare me or bother me at all. **Kim Miles ** 34:38 Well, it does a very interesting point. There is nothing that's ever going to replace the energy that you can feed off of being on stage and being in front of a live audience. And myself being a speaker like yourself and also being an at premiere emcee. There's nothing that's going to to replace that Right, I will tell you that one of my one of my favorite stories, and it was really, it was one of the most fun challenges and adventures. in the thick of COVID, one of my biggest clients, we had an alias comedian, who was the the guest of honor. And we were fundraising and I ran a live auction, over zoom, what wasn't zoom, it was another platform, but I was running a live auction to raise money. And there was a lag time between the time that the bids are coming in and between the time that I was seeing that, and so that challenge, like you're saying about that direct feedback, and that direct impact, it's a very real thing. For me when I'm emceeing an event, or if I'm speaking like yourself, the energy is a huge component. So the biggest thing for me that happened in COVID was, I was selected to do a TEDx talk, right when COVID hit, and so they pushed us off for a year. But as it turns out, I did my TEDx talk. However, unlike most TEDx talks, which are in front of a live audience, my TEDx talk was recorded in a studio. So I had a very unique and different TEDx experience. I wouldn't trade it for the world. But it was a very different experience, because I did not have the live audience feed and feel and energy like you're talking about, and it makes a difference. There's no question. **Michael Hingson ** 36:27 Well, it does make a difference. But it isn't necessarily a bad thing. **Kim Miles ** 36:30 No, no, I think it's, you have to learn how to adapt. If you're a business owner, you always have to learn how to adapt. And so in 2020, I learned how to adapt. And that's what I did. And now I'm proud to be able to say that I can offer people live virtual or hybrid events, and there's nothing we can't do for them. I've got the right technology partners, and I'm not fearful, you know, you have to learn how to adapt. And that's what you did. Yeah, **Michael Hingson ** 36:56 you know, for me not seeing the audience is not even relevant, because as we just discussed, if I'm doing a live presentation, I get to hear a lot and probably even, perhaps hear some things that someone looking at the audience might not see in the same way. But by the same token, like you, it's all about feeling the energy. And so when you're doing it, virtually, you don't feel the same kind of energy. But if you've done enough talks, you ought to be able to figure out how to do a speech and make it meaningful and just as relevant. And I think I've been pretty successful at that. And it's a lot of fun to do. **Kim Miles ** 37:40 You feel that your senses are heightened in terms of feeling that energy, because obviously, you know, you don't you don't see the audience, but you do feel that there's a there's like an even higher level of vibration of energy for you, especially, **Michael Hingson ** 37:54 only if I learned to, to look for it and and receive it, it isn't necessarily because of being blind, because that doesn't, in of itself, change senses. But as a speaker, you know, you know very well, what you do is you use all the skills that you have. And so for me, learning to pick up that energy, whatever it is, is very important. And I think that I probably pick up some different cues than you might, but we we both end up at the same place. Pretty much. **Kim Miles ** 38:31 Yeah. Which is what a great storyteller does, which is **Michael Hingson ** 38:35 exactly what a great storyteller does, I have had in my life. Two speeches that I thought didn't go very well. And both of them, as it turns out, although I didn't have enough information in advance about the audiences. And both of them were too small service clubs in my local area. So we didn't even get money for it. But that's okay. It was a it was a service. But as it turns out, in one case, most of the people couldn't even hear very well. They weren't Deaf people, they were seniors, but they seem not to be able to pick up on what was being said. And the other one was somewhat similar. It wasn't necessarily seniors, but I never did quite figure out what their priorities were. They wanted me to come in and talk about a couple of specific subjects, and I did, but they seem to be off in another world somewhere. But basically, that doesn't happen very often, which is of course, very helpful. **Kim Miles ** 39:37 I think your job or our job as speakers are and highly sought out speakers. And the reason why people hire us to speak is because we do have a good command on the audience. We're taking them on a journey and you know, if they've if they've seen you speak before or if somebody is recommending you that they've heard you speak before they walked away having felt something so that's why they're there. Going back to you is because they, they know you can kind of portray that energy. So, you know, it's just because people are great practitioners does not make them great speakers, you know, oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, with my clients that the, they'll say, Okay, we want to have this person speak. And I'll say, Listen, we need to know that these people can capture the audience, it's very important just because they're brilliant. And they're the leader in their field does not necessarily make them either an entertaining or a great speaker. And that's a huge thing. That's something that's really important, especially when you're trying to put together a killer conference or killer business meeting. You got to you got to make sure that these people can get up there and hold the audience. **Michael Hingson ** 40:42 And the more you speak, the more you get to learn about different kinds of audiences. And so, in theory, if you really practice analyzing what you do, the better you will be at holding audiences even in new and unexpected ways and unexpected places. Indeed, yes, I remember, well, my late the last speech I gave, actually, technically, the second to the last speech, they were two days apart, was at the convention of Headstart, you know, for children, the National Head Start Association convention, and I was invited to come by somebody who would have become speak at a school district in Michigan when she was there. And then her husband invited me to come and speak, actually at Freddie Mac, as well. But then this, this came along, and she convinced people that I could probably hold the audience reasonably well, to be polite about it. I think she was much stronger in her words than that. But anyway, so we did the speech. There were 3000 people there. Wow. And some people would say, Aren't you scared of 3000? People? No, my largest speech was a bout a six minute presentation to a church service for 6000 people just after September 11. So 3000 didn't bother me. But anyway, what was really a great honor and pleasure for me was, we got a standing ovation at the end. Wow. Which was was a lot of fun. **Kim Miles ** 42:15 I think what you're saying is super important, right? There's different ways that people let you know, as a speaker, that you've that what you've said, has resonated with them. And, you know, I'm always moved, when I hear from somebody that I don't know at all that will find me that will reach out to me on my social channels, or they'll email me or I've had people even call me before and they say you don't know me, I caught your podcast, I was in the audience, I read your, you know, your post, whatever it is. And if I, you know, connect on that kind of a level that moves somebody that much for them to reach out to me, then you know, you've done your job, right. And it's the same thing when you're live and with the audience. So, listen, there's never going to be a substitute for live and in person. But I'm glad that we've got tools so that there are substitutes for being live and in person because we need them. **Michael Hingson ** 43:06 Yeah, well, it's like, there's nothing like going to see a Broadway musical or a Broadway play on Broadway. Exactly. There's nothing like that at all. The energy is so different. It's all live. It's not like a movie or anything like that. And it's so wonderful to have had the opportunity to experience a bunch of those just like seeing a live concert. There's nothing like it. It's not the same when you're watching it on TV. It's different. Agreed. Well, how many TEDx talks have you given just the one or two? **Kim Miles ** 43:42 I've given I've given the one. It was incredible experience. It was a very profound. It was a profound time in my life. And it was also a very profound, cathartic moment. For me. I think, writing that TED X Talk was something that was one of the scarier things I've ever done, because it's actually a great story. I was I was working, I was working with one of my clients. Babson College here in Boston, which is the number one entrepreneurial school, and I do a lot of work with Babson. And I was I was speaking in front of a group of women. And I was telling my story. And this woman in the audience raised her hand and she said, Have you ever thought about giving a TED talk? And I laughed sort of out loud? And I said, Oh, gosh, no, I would be I would be terrible at that. I said, I don't think that that's really my, my jam. And she said, Oh, that's too bad. She said, Because I run the I run the TEDx Babson program, and I think you'd be really amazing at it. And so I laughed and I immediately said, Well, what I meant to say was, I would love to talk to duck. And as it turns out, I'm so glad that I did something that scared the most scared me the most, you know, they always say try something every day or every year that scares you the most. And that scared me the most because I, I am a much more unscripted person, I am a much more off the cuff type of person. I've done stand up comedy before. As I mentioned, I'm a performer, I'm a singer. So for me, things that are a little bit more unscripted feels slightly more natural for me. So the fact that this was pretty rigid and very scripted, and you have to follow a process, etc. It kind of terrified me. But it was one of the most profound experiences of my life. And I loved it so much that I then started to work with the TEDx team at Babson and I wrote their speaker handbook for them. And I just like to give back to them because it was just a truly truly profound experience. For me, **Michael Hingson ** 45:47 I find my strong suit is when a talk isn't necessarily scripted, mainly, because when I go to different places, I like to get there before my talk, and maybe hear people before me and get to meet more of the audience. And the advantage of that is, I work stuff into the talk right up until, and even during the time that I speak, something will come into my brain that says this needs to be said, much less with the event planners have already in requested be included if there are any messaging things, and so on. But it's so much fun, because that's what the audience really is going to relate to. If you're just up there reading a speech, dude, I can relate. Yeah, no, **Kim Miles ** 46:33 listen, I am anti PowerPoint, I am anti cue cards, I am anti anything, I love to just be able to be off the cuff. And obviously I know enough of my stuff to be able to get there confidently and the talk but but the TEDx thing was something that was very unique. And like I said, I wasn't in front of a live audience where most people are for their talks, I would like to do it again, because I would like the experience of doing it in front of a live audience. So I would, I want to apply again to another TEDx talk. And I would like to have the full the full package experience. Next time, **Michael Hingson ** 47:08 I had a speech that I was scheduled to do, it was set up by a speaker's bureau. And they told me what the audience was, what the organization was, and all sorts of stuff, I got there only to find out that the speaker, Bureau representative had no clue. And it was totally different than what I had come expecting to do. Unfortunately, what this organization was about was also something else that I had experience with. So I had 15 minutes to change on the fly. And that's why I love to have the ability to be a lot more flexible, and it makes for a much better speech. **Kim Miles ** 47:41 Absolutely. **Michael Hingson ** 47:42 I agree. I agree. So it makes it a lot of fun. What's for you, what would you say, is one of the most unique factors that people encounter when they work with you. **Kim Miles ** 47:56 I mean, for me, you know it again, I'm definitely a unicorn in my industry because of my ability to use both sides of my brain simultaneously. My business acumen and my creative side, most people who are creatives are exactly that they're creatives, they're not great at the business acumen side, and vice versa. And for me, I'm incredibly strong in both areas. And I know that and that is what makes me special. So I know that that's a very unique factor when people work for me. But I think that the other thing that unequivocally goes along with working with me is my sense of humor and keeping things really fun and keeping things really enjoyable. The process is enjoyable, I mean, having a sense of humor and infusing my humor in things appropriately. Of course, the way that I work with my clients, you know, when they're having a good time, we all are having a good time, and there's success across the board. So it's definitely a combination of my business acumen and my creative, my creativity, and also just bringing my sense of humor, whether it be to the stage or to the content that I'm helping them create, or, you know, just making them feel more at ease about the process. **Michael Hingson ** 49:08 Yeah, having a sense of humor is really important. I've heard people say, as a professional speaker, you should start off with a joke. And, you know, I certainly find that there are times when having humor upfront actually helps break through to the audience, but there are ways to do it. **Kim Miles ** 49:30 There well you have to do it appropriately. I mean, you know, I I have a history in performance I have a background and performance I have I'm no stranger to a stranger does stranger to a sage doesn't bother me or scare me. I've done stand up comedy when I lived in New York and you know, I write the way that I sort of speak and talk and so but you have to do it. You have to do it appropriately. I mean there there are appropriate times for it. And then there are appropriate times for when you need to be He, you know, you're gonna read the room. That's what I say, gotta read, how to read the **Michael Hingson ** 50:04 bottom read the room. Absolutely. One of the favorite things that I like to start with, especially if there is any kind of a disabilities component, but even not necessarily with that I love to start by saying, want to do a little bit of market surveying. And I'll ask a few questions like, Do you know any blind people? And you know, any number of questions like that three or four questions. And one of three things happens, people, when I asked questions raised their hands, some people applauded, or most people applauded. And I have the person who introduced me stay up on the stage, so I can get that sense of it. But the last question, especially when I know that some people are raising their hands, the last question is, so do you really think it's a bright idea that when a blind speaker asks you a question that you respond by raising your hand, and it that has so often just drawn people in it's so much fun, because they know they're dealing with **Kim Miles ** 51:03 a person? Yeah, you break the ice that way that that's brilliant. I love that. **Michael Hingson ** 51:07 Yeah. And it's, it's a lot of fun to do. And again, my belief is I don't talk to an audience, I talk with an audience. **Kim Miles ** 51:18 One of my early taglines in my business was, it's a conversation, not a presentation. And I feel really strongly about that. I mean, everything that I do is, as I said, I really enjoyed trying to create convivial atmosphere is for my clients, and for myself and putting other people at ease. And, you know, it's, it's about the conversation, and it's about listening. It's about really, you know, engaging, and I agree with you, you're not talking at the audience, you're talking with them. I agree with you wholeheartedly. **Michael Hingson ** 51:49 And I love it, when there is a chance at the end of his speech doesn't always happen. But at the end of the speech, where we can have q&a. And of course, if there is time for q&a, is getting people to ask questions, because people tend to be so shy, and getting people to actually open up and ask questions. And even though I'll say there is absolutely no question in the world that's off limits. It still takes a while. And actually, I've got a favorite story about that, which is that I spoke talking about keeping an audience's attention. I spoke at a school in elementary school in San Francisco, K through six. And the teacher said, now you can only talk for about 10 or 15 minutes, you're not going to hold these kids attentions. And I said, okay, and 45 minutes later, I opened it up for questions. How are you not gonna want to listen to somebody who's standing up there talking to you with a dog? Right, man? So anyway, open it up for questions. And a young man, third grade, a guy, of course, gets up. And his question was, and this is why I tell the story, because I say no questions off limits. How do blind people have sex? **Kim Miles ** 53:03 In the third grade? Yep. God bless. **Michael Hingson ** 53:07 I know. And you know, so I said, Look, no CIA interrogator is going to be able to ask a tougher question than that. But my response immediately was, it just popped into my head the same way everyone else does. And if you want to know more, go ask your parents. I'm not done. **Kim Miles ** 53:22 That's a very good answer. Well played, well played. **Michael Hingson ** 53:28 Yeah. It's a lot of fun. And, you know, when I start to tell that kind of a story, people will start to open up and ask questions. And so it's, it's a lot of fun and interacting with an audience is always fun. Of course, after speaking, oftentimes, we'll go out into the lobby and sell thunder dog. And I've got my best sales rep with me, the dog, Alamo who's a black lab. So I'll take his harness off, tie him to one of the legs on the table where we're selling books. And he is out in front visiting with everybody. And of course, if they come to visit with him, then they have to buy a book anyway. And so he's a he's a great crowd drawer and a crowd pleaser by any standard. Everybody loves a dog, everybody, and you know what? He is discovered the law of maximum pet ability space. So he will lay down and stretch out every appendage as far as he can, in every direction to get as much interaction from people as possible, especially when it's kids. Smart boy. Oh, yeah. Most all of the guide dogs I've ever had have been very smart about doing that. But but they love it. And, you know, it makes him feel good that he gets to be a part of it and he gets a chance to relax and not be in the harness all the time. It's a level of trust, but it's really a lot of fun. Well, what's one thing you stand for in your life? **Kim Miles ** 54:53 I'd like to think that I stand for kindness. I think that I'm I'm sort of always amazed at how often kindness is forgotten or put last or ignored. And I think that in today's world, I think, personally, a lot of things could be dictated and solved, or heard a little bit more. Kindness was put toward the forefront of things. Yeah, I grew up in a very loving and kind home. And I care very deeply about family and friends. And I give back to my communities of people in organizations, I think, with kindness and integrity. And I don't know, I just, I think we've forgotten a little bit of kindness along the way. And I think that that's never lost on me. So I would, I would like to hope that I stand for kindness, I would like to help, **Michael Hingson ** 55:56 I would like to see us regain the art of conversation and listening and respecting other people's views. And of course, that's part of kindness also. But yeah, we just seem to forget all of that. **Kim Miles ** 56:12 I think we're just going through a weird shift, I think that there's there's a, there's sort of a perfect storm of things going on in our world between technology and, and, and the world itself, and, and economics and, you know, just sort of humanity itself. But here's where I get hopeful. As I mentioned before, I think that sometimes it can get a little scary, where social media can be so great and so harmful at the same time, every time I sort of kind of lose a little bit of hope, then I'll see something really promising on social media or on the news. And it just takes that one story about an act of a small act of kindness. Yeah, to kind of restore my faith, I've been the recipient of so many small acts of kindness that I really like to think that I, I love to put forth small acts of kindness, because you can really, you can change the trajectory of somebody's entire being with a small act of kindness. So I don't know, that's just always been really important to me. But it's always it's been taught to me by my by my family, my parents. So **Michael Hingson ** 57:28 I think we're best when we when we recognize that we're, we're here to serve others first. It isn't about me, it's about all of us. Well, I **Kim Miles ** 57:38 think it goes back to what my mother always said, if you do the right thing, you never have to wonder if you did the right thing. **Michael Hingson ** 57:43 So Right. We do have a moral compass, if we would only pay attention to it. **Kim Miles ** 57:48 Most of us do. I agree. I would say most of us do. Yes. What would **Michael Hingson ** 57:52 you advise for an entrepreneur starting out? Or what kind of advice do you have, that you would offer for, for people in business? Or just people in general? **Kim Miles ** 58:04 Well, without question, I mean, my biggest message to entrepreneurs, especially, but just people in general, your network is your net worth. I mean, I myself have built two very successful businesses, you know, absolutely on the merit and the cultivation, and the care that I've given to my network, and I, it's like a garden, right, I feed it, I tend it, I pay attention to it. And I listened to it. And, you know, when you give back to your network, you get a lot from your network. And so people have to really understand the power of their network and, and how to utilize their network the right way. I teach a curriculum on best practices in networking. And it's something that's a very popular curriculum that I get hired for, because I think that most people are inherently not great networkers. Back to one of your earlier points, I always talk about the fact that effective networking is, you know, 90% listening and 10% talking and I think people think it's the other way around. Yeah, and I'm not even talking about, like going to a networking event and sitting in a room and networking, I'm talking about how to look at your centers of influence in your internal network and using it for good for better to make a difference to make a change to propel yourself, to help yourself and to help others. So that for me would be my biggest message and to learn how to do that successfully, is I think the ticket to success. **Michael Hingson ** 59:37 So when you're not financially advising or producing what do you do to relax and have fun? **Kim Miles ** 59:44 Well, I sing with my band which is one of the most fun things that I do. I love my band. We have a blast we perform and and it's just one of my favorite outlets. I spend time with my nieces, which is a great joy for me. I don't have children. I have six nieces, and I golf, and I play pickleball. I am a huge pickleball fan. So I try to play pickleball anytime I can. **Michael Hingson ** 1:00:10 My nephew, since he is retired, has gotten into pickleball and plays several times a week. He's in a league, where he lives and is just always playing pickleball. And it's something I never even heard of two years ago. **Kim Miles ** 1:00:25 It's there's a reason it's the fastest growing sport in the world. It's it's so much fun. It's so easy. And it's super social. And so I have become a bit by the pickleball bug in between that and golf. I keep myself very busy in the summertime. **Michael Hingson **

OUR HOSTS: Corinne Foxx - @corinnefoxxNatalie McMillan - @nataliemcm and @shopnataliemcmillan What we're drinking: Chai From Kreation & Chai From Miss Melbourne TOPIC: Natalie is back from Hawaii, and we finally have a moment to sit down and catch up! Corinne is ready to move out of Los Angeles, and we discuss how we're managing the infamous June Gloom. Inspired by the Taylor Swift Eras Tour, we unpack our current era and reflect on our eras of the past. Plus, we take a trip down memory lane to share our BFF origin story. Think film summer camp, sketchy apartment buildings, and way too many Pop-Tarts. In this episode, we discuss:Natalie's vacation to Hawaii Why Corinne wants to move out of Los Angeles Our current and past erasTips for getting through June Gloom How we became best friendsEND OF THE SHOW: Corinne and Natalie introduce Hottie of the Week: Issa RaeDRINK RATING:Chai From Kreation & Chai From Miss Melbourne = 8 / IssaWRAP UP:To wrap up the episode, we play Recent Obsessions. Corinne's goal is to read a book a month, and she loves her current book Honey & Spice by Bolu Babalola. Natalie is obsessed with the history (and the whole concept) of The Rainforest Cafe. We have a newsletter for our Am I community. You can sign up for the newsletter on our website: amidoingthisrightpod.comYou can email us for episode ideas or Solicited Advice: amidoingthisrightpod@gmail.comFollow us on Instagram: @amidoingthisrightpod Don't forget to rate and review the podcast! It really helps us grow!

As they say, "all gloomy things must come to an end".  We wave goodbye to JUNE GLOOM with a movie that isn't short on tears - Ingmar Bergman's CRIES AND WHISPERS.   This movie which deals with the fractured relationship between three sisters as one of the sisters is dying of cancer is long on atmosphere and short on action.  It won an Academy Award for cinematography.  Some of us loved the slow, methodic pacing.  Others of us thought the movie was 4 hours long.   CRIES AND WHISPERS also shows that people who tend to be dramatic tend to surround themselves with other dramatic people.  Often, this results in a perpetual "drama-off" where one party tries to "out drama" the other.  Found out your spouse has had an affair?  Respond by stabbing yourself in the gut with a sword.  Or was it a letter opener?  We'll never know.  Regardless, DRAMA.   As an added bonus, we frequently say that all roads lead to John Carpenter's THE THING.  CRIES AND WHISPERS is no exception.

San Diego has seen more gray skies than normal this year, and the effects from May Gray and June Gloom can have an impact on mental health.

Winning by The Sound God Speed by Mac Miller Can't You See by The Marshall Tucker Band Look at Me! by XXXTentacion Transmission by Joy Division LivinWithMeShow.com

This is a comprehensive exploration and evaluation of what I'm calling the June Gloom forecast of residential real estate. We're talking trends, price directions, and opportunities that make up the current market landscape right now, where cautious optimism and challenges intertwine, shaping the industry's path forward.    Discover the factors driving demand in the market, including three factors that could bring the housing market into balance, and evolving buyer preferences. We unravel the impact of these dynamics on supply and demand, uncovering the persistent imbalance and its consequences for both buyers and sellers.  We delve into the intriguing world of home prices, discussing how they have reached new heights while also witnessing a slowdown in appreciation. Gain a deeper understanding of the delicate balance between seller expectations and buyer affordability, and explore how this balance shapes the market's trajectory.    Mortgage rates take center stage, as we analyze the impact of historically low rates on buyer demand. Delve into the uncertainty surrounding interest rates, exploring the potential effects of economic stimulus measures and inflationary pressures on affordability, and discover how these factors influence the decision-making process for property and home buyers.    Regional variations play a significant role in shaping the current market, and we shed light on these diverse dynamics. We discuss how local economies, job markets, and migration patterns contribute to market variations, with some regions experiencing surges in demand and robust price growth, while others witness more moderate activity.   Gain valuable insights to navigate this complex market, whether you're a buyer, seller, or investor, or simply interested in understanding the forces shaping the housing landscape.To learn more, visit:https://billbymel.com/Listen to more episodes on Mission Matters:https://missionmatters.com/author/bill-bymel/

JUNE GLOOM marches on and takes a dramatic (yet satisfying) turn as we discuss SAINT JACK, the film that saw director Peter Bogdanovich's return to Roger Corman filmmaking!  And joining us for this episode is the hilarious and insightful Ben Slater, who literally wrote the book on SAINT JACK with Kinda Hot: The Making of Saint Jack in Singapore!  We ask Ben all the necessary insightful questions, like how was Cybill Shepherd involved in the film? How close was Orson Welles to directing it? And why is ENCINO MAN the best fish-out-of-water film?  Plus, we talk about how a James Bond was cast in the movie, how Singapore itself plays a role in the film, and whether New World Pictures successfully marketed the film.  Follow Ben Slater on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gonetopersia

It's June Gloom in Los Angeles and Lee's battle with insomnia continues. Lee and Delman win Broadway lottery tickets to the musical "SIX" and are forever changed by what they witness.Question of the week: If you could know how you die, would you want to?Want to support us? https://ko-fi.com/favoritecheeseJoin the conversation and send your questions and quandaries to Cheese@favoritecheese.comIf you enjoyed this episode, PLEASE rate and review this podcast! It means the world to us :)

I graduated high school 20 years ago to the day of this release and share some brief thoughts on a reunion from over the weekend. There is a movie that everyone needs to see immediately. The Denver Nuggets and Las Vegas Knights were recently crowned champions of the NBA and NHL respectively, but I'm most excited for the College World Series that begins this Friday. Do you only pray to God when you need a favor? Are you only looking for signs from Him that point you in the direction you want to go and ignore the ones that might offer the alternative you don't want to hear? After some theological questions I vent about false narratives revolving around umpire ejections and give my two cents to make it make sense. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/15mph/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/15mph/support

In this episode, we explore the profound impact of seasonal changes on the human psyche and discuss strategies to alleviate the effects on mood and promote well-being. We begin by understanding how seasonal variations influence our biological clock, hormonal balance, and neurotransmitter activity, directly affecting our mood. The reduction in daylight hours during winter disrupts the natural production of serotonin, leading to feelings of lethargy, sadness, and a decrease in overall well-being. We also explore how changes in daily routines and activities, such as limited outdoor time and colder temperatures, can contribute to a sense of isolation and exacerbate mood changes.  Steve shares a personal experience of going through a "funk" that he attributes to the weather and changing seasons, highlighting the phenomenon of June gloom in Southern California. We learn how the tilt of the Earth and its movement around the sun bring about the seasons, and the Steve reflects on an episode from a documentary series that highlights the impact of seasons on various species.Delving deeper into the effects of seasonal changes on humans, we discover that there is evidence for seasonal variations in physiological functions and even complex behaviors. The episode touches on circadian and infradian rhythms regulated by the suprachiasmatic nucleus, as well as the Belgian study that found changes in brain activity and cognitive performance across seasons.The discussion turns to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) or Major Depressive Disorder, which affects millions of adults. We explore various ways to combat the mood changes associated with seasonal transitions, including light therapy, outdoor exposure, exercise, mindfulness, self-care practices, learning new skills, and seeking support from professionals when necessary.Steve shares insights from a personal course he is undertaking on Jose Silva's teachings, emphasizing the power of gratitude journaling and focusing on the magic witnessed each day. The episode concludes with a quote from Gandhi, encouraging lifelong learning and living each day to the fullest.To stay connected with Better Place Project and for updates and behind the scenes info, please follow us on social media:Website:https://www.betterplaceproject.org/ Instagram: @BetterPlaceProj To follow Steve on Instagram@SteveNorrisOfficialFacebook: Facebook.com/BetterPlaceProjectPodcastTwitter: @BetterPlaceProjEmail: BetterPlaceProjectPodcast@gmail.com

We continue our procession through the deep recesses of JUNE GLOOM with a Nearly New World entry - 1986's WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?   Written by Jack Sholder (GENERATION X, THE HIDDEN), WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN? explores the challenging topic of child abduction in a small town where the police are useless, the realtors are heartless but the baklava at Nico's is to die for.   We attempt to write our own LETTERBOXD description for the movie each with wildly different results, we do an unusually deep dive into children's love of clam chowder and the coagulative properties of whole milk.  There's a lot to explore.  

Wim Wenders' 1977 Euro-noir, THE AMERICAN FRIEND, is our feature presentation this week. We talk the performances of Dennis Hopper and Bruno Ganz, Wenders obsession with the author of the source material, the beautifully captured ugliness of the film, and much much more. Plus, we get into this week's SILVER SCREEN 7 where we pick our TOP 7 FOREIGN FILMS RELEASED on CRITERION COLLECTION. Check out the second film in our June series, JUNE GLOOM. It's been a bummerific good time.

A cross-generational excursion to see The Dare, checking out Alex Cameron at the Cara, worried that the Jokermen guys think Ben's a coke fiend, Ione sees The Secret of My Success for the first time and considers whether housewives still take Black Beauties to clean their house. We also ponder why everyone on The Ultimatum is drinking from Silver Goblets while we enjoy season 3 of "I Think You Should Leave". Ione recalls nursing a pigeon during June Gloom.The song at the end is HERE by Radnor & Leehttps://open.spotify.com/album/0oVUMRsFuUIB5fkIfiLIRe?si=Gg5Mk9afQwyMr0p6ezmDyg Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the most unorthodox business podcast on the planet! His name is Ben Baller, not Ben Humble & he's here to discuss: June Gloom, Hitting a PML Quickstrike, waiting 7 years for his Tesla Roadster, getting a new daily car, seriously considering writing a book, getting reached out to by divorced friends, Kaia graduating from Kindergarten, what the kids are obsessed with & cooking for them, becoming obsessed with Roblox, RIP Irene, the times of recording for this podcast, victim culture, Casa Vega, Burger She Wrote, Extra Market, celebrating Father's Day, PGA Tour & LIV Golf Merging, the difference in having money, playing golf with Jordan & Miles, Pride Month, Protests in front of Disney World, Donald Trump being indicted again, wanting to interview a fan on the show & more. This episode is not to be missed! Support our Sponsors: www.Netsuite.com/Baller www.ShopDuer.com Promo Code: BALLER Subscribe to Par 3 Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/par-3-podcast-with-j-r-smith-ben-baller-stephen-malbon/id1665308291 If you are interested in NBA, MLB, NHL Soccer, UFC & more Picks daily, weekly or monthly subscribe at www.CaptainPicks.com & Follow @TheCaptainPicks on Instagram Produced by: DBPodcasts www.dbpodcasts.com Follow @dbpodcasts on Instagram & Twitter Music by @lakeyinspired Available on all Podcast Platforms, YouTube & BehindTheBallerPod.com Behind The Baller Theme Music  Artist: Illegal Kartel (@illegal_kartel_mikal_shakur) Produced by: Gene Crenshaw @yuyuthemaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Spence & Spence talk Mike Johnson, fair concerts, and stoking the political fires.  Let's Go!

June Gloom may be killing the vibe when it comes to grilling but it can't ruin a good meatloaf. Neil breaks down different kinds of meats and sauces for the perfect meatloaf for you.

The Pigeons post up at Radio Kismet University City. Fink recaps a big vacay. Meech breaks up a no hitter. Jesse gets weird on relationships. Rock stumbles in another game of Who's That Tweeter?

#111: Gloom or Glisten? It's both... If you listen. The plants are loving these extra cloudy skies, even if some of us are missing that LA sun. And here's the question: is this SAD-inducing set of storms even that unusual for June, or is this the normal we've forgotten during these last years of drought? We've got LAist science reporter, Jacob Margolis, to explain all that and more. And for more info, check out his article unpacking June Gloom. Or if you're really in the mood to bundle up in your raincoat, he's got an article on this year's predicted El Niño, too.

Jennifer Jones Lee returns for your Tuesday morning Wake Up Call! ABC's Ines De La Cuetara joins the show to talk about Prince Harry's court appearance happening later today. Then, a check-in with the National Weather Service as June gloom rolls in, bringing clouds, cold and a chance of storms. ABC's White House Correspondent Karen Travers highlights what the focus is right now in Washington. And Dr. Catherine Kelso, Deputy Executive Director of the V.A. Office of Geriatrics and Extended Care Veterans Health Administraion comes on to talk about Alzheimers Awareness Month, and how the V.A. is paving the way for research and treatment.

Todd Field's 2001 New England domestic revenge drama, IN THE BEDROOM, is our feature presentation this week. We talk Stanley Kubrick's influence on the film, Todd Field's inspiration, Tom Cruise's advice on how to handle Harvey Weinstein, Sissy Spacek and Tom Wilkinson's powerhouse performances, capturing the quaint suburban community, and so much more. Plus, we get into this week's SILVER SCREEN 7 where we pick our TOP 7 SISSY SPACEK MOVIES. Check out the first film in our June series, JUNE GLOOM. It's going to be a bummerific good time.      

Oh lala! Ari isn't dead! But maybe her brain is.

JUNE GLOOM, our tribute to the dramas or "saddies" released by New World Pictures, starts out with a bang with the 1984 New Zealand import HEART OF THE STAG!  And boy, is it the gloomiest! Joining us to discuss this dark, dark film is returning guest Lindsay Wilkins, host of the Schlock & Awe podcast!  We fight through the discomfort of the movie's subject matter (which is considerable) and discuss the Bruno Lawrence of it all, table manners, and the benefits of hindsight!  Plus, Lindsay helps school us on New Zealand's goth scene, wool industry, and countryside, AND we have an impromptu stag roar competition!  Follow Schlock & Awe here: https://twitter.com/schlockandawe1 Follow Lindsay here: https://twitter.com/readandgeek

From Chummy Studios, Hye Jams Radio presents, "Paisan and Friends," brought to you by Haig's Kabob House. This time of year, the weather is cloudy and usually underwhelming. Some call it, June Gloom. But when you listen to Hye Jams, our favorite Italian host picks all the latest and greatest Armenian hits to make your June…BOOM! On this episode, Paisan features Brand New Hye Jams from DJ Davo, Arsen Sayadyan and Hayk Keys. Plus, Hits you know and love from Reincarnation Band, Super Sako, Saro Tovmasyan, Alik Hakoyan, DJ Apo, Artash Asatryan, Brunette, Sammy Flash, Arkadi Dumikyan, Hripsime Hakobyan, Lilit Hovhannisyan, Armenchik, Marat, DJ Jilber, Hrag, Annette Aghabekyan and Mer Hovo — to name a few. Download the app now in the App or Google Play store and listen for free to a high energy, incredible show filled with your favorite Armenian Pop Music, playing the Best of the Best Songs. Ain't nuttin' but a party...right here on Hye Jams Radio!

Welcome to the Just Being ME! Podcast, with your hosts Comedian Margot Evans and Mary Mac! Check in with us each week to see what's going on with us and the world!Sit back and listen to your tow favorite girlfriends, shoot the sh@+. As we catch y'all up on our week-end; Talk about the goings on in entertainment; Mary might just jump on her Soapbox and drop some knowledge on us; Margot, may need to Rant or Rave about something!; Y'all know that Margot and Mary be sharing What They Be Watchin.Hit us up with all your comments at justbeingmeMargotEvans@gmail.com. We would love to hear from you! Thank you for your continued support. Make sure you tell a friend about us! Remember to Like, Subscribe, and Share us!

Happy Friday! Last week, we got to hear an incredible account of how the Gospel message fits into our human struggle with depression. My friend, Steven, who is the host, of, The Nook Podcast, came on and shared about his struggle with clinical depression. Not only was it eye opening, but, encouraging. Today, with great honor, and permission, Steven, has allowed me to share an episode of his that took place during a rock bottom experience with his depression.  This is a beautiful portrayal of the human experience during a season of deep struggle. Not only that, it is a picture of the suffering and struggling Christian. A picture that is too often avoided, ignored, and not addressed.We want to separate Christianity from hardship and prolonged sorrow. We want to believe that following Jesus means no more assaults on our souls, but in truth, the God we serve, does allow pain and sorrow in His children's lives. Along with this hard reality, we have hope! An unending hope, one that promises the faithful presence of God during every moment of our time below the dark waters. Steven, is a remarkable man. I was bolstered so much by speaking with him. He also addresses the stigma surrounding mental illness. This is an episode you will not want to miss. Support the showLike, follow, subscribe, and drop an encouraging comment below

Marcas Grant and Michael F. Florio are back for a special new edition of the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. They're talking about the biggest news from around the league, like is Gronk really done playing? And Florio has to explain himself. Finally, they're playing June Boon or June Gloom! The NFL Fantasy Football Podcast is part of the NFL Podcast Network. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.