Employing Differences

"That's the thing we wanna reach for is the ability to do both. But in that moment that I know I don't have the capacity to do both, I reach for the one that's unfamiliar but that will save me from the trouble that I tend to get myself in because that autopilot thing still applies."Karen & Paul unpack how to be both warm and assertive in your communication. They explore what gets in the way, how energy impacts our ability to do both, and why balancing clarity and care is key to building trust in teams and relationships.Items mentioned in this episode:Likeable Badass by Alison Fragale

"There's a cultural value around helping is good but receiving help is not. There's a one-up, one-down relationship between someone who is helping and someone who's receiving help."Karen & Paul dive into the emotional and cultural barriers that stop us from requesting assistance, even when we desperately need it. From fear of looking weak to stories about self-sufficiency, they explore why people hesitate to ask and how this affects collaboration, morale, and efficiency.

"For everything that goes well, we can get a tiny bit of fuel from it or a huge amount of fuel from it, depending on how we think about it, how we share it, how we celebrate it, how we engage with it."Karen & Paul share the importance of finding emotional and energetic fuel for collaborative work, especially when dealing with relationship challenges in groups.They highlight the value of focusing on what is going well, celebrating successes, gratitude practices, and fostering genuine connections to maintain energy and motivation. Authenticity and appropriateness in these practices are emphasized to ensure they resonate with the group.

"To be able to say, yeah, I get it. It's tough, right? It's a hard spot to be in, to be there, and it's actually pretty typical. It's not a sign you're doing it wrong. It's not just you."Karen & Paul discuss how individuals in corporate and community settings often feel isolated in their challenges, thinking it's just them.  They emphasize the importance of normalizing these feelings by sharing and surfacing common problems in structured spaces. This reduces shame and anxiety, making it easier to address issues collaboratively. They suggest that managers and community members can create environments where these discussions can take place.

"It's also true that we are not as good at a particular thing as somebody else, and so I think the thing that is so essential and so rare here is that we figure out how to have honest conversations and acknowledgement of the difference in skill level that doesn't carry with it a difference in value of the person."Karen & Paul share the challenges and dynamics of having a highly skilled expert on a team. They explore how the presence of a standout expert can both benefit and complicate team interactions. 

"You now are inadvertently most likely sending the message, you do not value their expertise. That expertise that they spent the time developing, you know, now it really sends the message, it's not only that we're not gonna use your work, but we also don't value your perspective, your opinion."Karen & Paul discuss the importance of acknowledging and appreciating the work done by individuals or groups in collaborative settings, even if their work isn't used.

"If I wanna have the kind of influence that I need to be an effective leader, I need trust. And in order to trust me, they're going to have to see me being vulnerable."Karen & Paul explore why leaders in hierarchical organizations often hesitate to admit mistakes. They discuss how this reluctance can harm trust and influence.Book mentioned in this episode:The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni

"While structure and process do shape behavior in certain ways, and it can nudge our beliefs in certain ways around this. It isn't as big a lever as people often think that it is."Karen & Paul discuss whether changing organizational structure can solve issues within a group. They explore how often cultural and relational problems are mistaken for structural ones.

"We do this because if everybody had to be part of every decision, we'd never get anything done." Karen & Paul talk about how to select a board for an organization, focusing on boards that represent members. 

"We don't have to be cruel when we use authority. We can be humane; we can still reach into that space between, and there are ways of doing that that not a lot of us have experience doing."Karen & Paul discuss when and how to use authority in conflicts without damaging relationships.

"Do I think the other person is interested in repairing the relationship? Because if they're not, the chances that they're gonna invest the time and energy into it to make it work, those chances are low."Karen & Paul talk about how to handle conflicts in collaborative spaces. They introduce a four-bucket model for conflict management: tolerance, relationship repair, behavior response, and power over.Links and items mentioned in this episode:Tolerate: Employing Differences, Episode 152: When is this "fine"?Relationship Repair:Employing Differences, Episode 196: What will repair this?Employing Differences, Episode 217: How can I repair trust?Behavior Response: Employing Differences, Episode 240: What are my choices?

"How can we shift from a place of blame and judgment into a place of curiosity?"Karen & Paul discuss the importance of focusing on present dynamics rather than delving into the detailed history when resolving conflicts within groups.

"One of the things that is our job as facilitators is to shift the dynamics that you're used to having."Karen & Paul talk about the key information facilitators need when joining a new group. They discuss the balance between knowing group dynamics and avoiding personal biases. 

" And the more anxious and stressed we are, the more likely we are to take the path of least neural resistance, which is the thing that we've done."Karen & Paul discuss why we often repeat the same behaviors despite wanting to change. They explain that our brains are wired to follow habitual patterns.

"If I know why I'm trying to be there, then my next question is, why do I not want to be there fully?"Karen & Paul talk about how to balance being present in meetings with the demands of multitasking, especially in today's attention-fragmented world. They explore individual and group needs for attention, provide strategies for making conscious decisions about how fully to participate, and highlight the impact of divided attention on relationships.

"Whenever we're doing things together, we tend to think that people participating, people being involved, people being engaged, is a good thing."Karen & Paul discuss the complexity of increasing group participation. They explore why people may not participate and suggest that simply aiming for more involvement might not be the solution.

"But if you're really clear that this is a terrible idea, you need to say that you think this is a terrible idea. And probably give some reasons for it because we are in a collaborative space."Karen & Paul explore the importance of saying no in collaborative spaces. They explore why people hesitate to say no, its impact on relationships, and how to say no effectively.

"There's often a case that when you're in a highly blamable role, it's very easy to fall into that trap of thinking I own this. Therefore, I'm going to start trying to exert this kind of control that I don't actually have."Karen & Paul discuss the pitfalls of feeling like you own the meeting when facilitating. They explain the importance of recognizing the group's autonomy and resisting the urge to control.

"I think we misrepresent to ourselves what it means to be late, what the impact of that is. And so I think the math that we like to do, and frankly, I do this math too, is, Oh, they'll just sort of be gathering, and I won't really miss anything."Karen & Paul talk about whether it's acceptable to arrive late in collaborative settings. They explain how the disruption of group members coming and going can unconsciously affect everyone involved.

"Tell me a little more about what you're trying to use this information for, because I may be able to give you better information."Karen & Paul discuss why simple questions often lead to unexpected or defensive answers. They explore how questions can be loaded with hidden meanings and assumptions, causing misunderstandings.

"Are the people who would have to change, who would have to do the work to make that change, are they the ones who want it? Are they the ones thinking this is a good idea? Are they the ones asking for help?"Karen & Paul Paul talk about the importance of identifying who wants change in collaborative work. 

"Anytime anyone in a position of authority acts out of alignment from these values, that is a rife ground for cynicism."Karen & Paul explore whether group values are beneficial. They highlight that while group values can unify and guide decision-making, the process often turns into ineffective wordsmithing.

"So while you're doing the vision work, you want to be saying, okay, so what does that actually look like concretely?"Karen & Paul discuss the importance of balancing visionary discussions with concrete details in collaborative spaces. They emphasize that while dreaming and vision are important, actual logistics, tasks, and specifics must also be addressed to avoid misunderstandings and ensure a productive relationship.

"At the point where you've reached the point where both people are really only expressing an interest in protecting themselves and not in actually solving the problem, that's a point where it can be useful for them to take a break, to simmer down, to deescalate to the point where they can get back to actually wanting to solve the problem again."Karen & Paul dive into the benefits and caveats of using cooling-off periods to handle conflicts, especially in team settings.

"And a lot of that don't have a choice, what happens is it puts us in a place where we feel very victimy and helpless, which leads to resentment and anger."Karen & Paul explore how to navigate conflict by assessing personal values and considering a wide range of choices. They emphasize understanding why a situation matters, outlining all possible actions, and predicting likely outcomes to choose the best option.

"We get work done with and through other people. There's always relationships involved. And so my standpoint is generally that you are going to achieve the work more effectively if you're better at building positive working relationships with other people."Karen & Paul talk about whether relationships matter, even in contexts where they are not a priority.

"I'm doing a thing that just doesn't serve what I say is important to me, what I believe is important to me, what I value, what I care about, that is not equivalent to saying, wow, I'm a terrible person."Karen & Paul discuss the misalignment between unconscious habitual behavior and consciously held values.

"You're going to be trying to tell me about my impact and I'm going to be trying to defend myself by talking about my intentions. We actually need to talk about the same thing at the same time. If you're telling me about impact, I need to get curious about impact. We need to have a conversation at the impact level."Karen & Paul dive into the importance of recognizing the difference between intention and impact in our actions. Links and items mentioned in this episode:Employing Differences, Episode 192: What's going on with them?

" When there is a need for the emotions to come into the room, when we should talk about our feelings, we need to do that in an intentional and probably structured way."Karen & Paul tackle the importance of acknowledging emotions in decision-making, especially when groups are stuck. Links and items mentioned in this episode:The Cooperative Culture Handbook, Exercise 12.1

"Is my desire for them to land in a particular place causing me to make decisions that are going to take them the wrong way towards what I think is the right choice? "Karen & Paul talk about the challenges facilitators face in maintaining neutrality during group decision-making.Links and items mentioned in this episode:Employing Differences, Episode 146: What can a facilitator say?

"The more that the relationship space stays clean and clear, the more sense of freedom that everybody has. They have freedom to come right up to my boundary because they know where it is. They don't have to leave extra or wonder where it is or be on tiptoes or whatever."Karen & Paul dive into how setting and communicating personal boundaries not only safeguards oneself but also benefits others and strengthens relationships.

"For me at least personally it's been very useful for just to slow them down, just to say could I get you to just mirror back to me what do you think my concern is, or what do I think is going to happen here?"Karen & Paul tackle the issue of approaching disagreements with overconfidence and the good side of not always having to be 'right'.

" If somebody is talking to us, they would like to be heard. They would like to have a sense of connection. They would like something to shift or to matter to us or something. And if they get the sense that that is possible and that we're available in a way that almost nobody is. That is way powerful."Karen & Paul emphasize the value of listening over speaking in effective communication.Links and items mentioned in this episode:How to Talk with Anyone about Anything by Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly HuntThe Cooperative Culture Handbook by Yana Ludwig and Karen GimnigThanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well by Douglas Stone & Sheila HeenDifficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila HeenThe Coaching Habit by Michael Bungay Stanier

"When we don't trust the group to be able to take individual preferences into account and then make a decision when every sharing of information to us sounds like a demand."Karen & Paul explore the challenges of understanding what participants want in group settings when people are not forthcoming.  Links and items mentioned in this episode:Abilene Paradox

"It doesn't matter if it's your boss or somebody else. It could be your report. It could even be someone that you could give instructions to. But some kind of opener that lets them know what's coming and gives them a chance to say, are they up for it or not?"Karen & Paul discuss the importance of deciding how to disagree in a way that maintains relationships. Links and items mentioned in this episode:Employing Differences, Episode 171: Is it safe to disagree with me?Employing Differences, Episode 229: May I disagree?

"I've largely gotten to the point where I can say, Hmm, I disagree, but no one else needs to know about that. It's not worth my time, or my energy to bring it up." Karen & Paul discuss the importance of knowing when to speak up and disagree, and preparing for potential outcomes.Links and items mentioned in this episode:Employing Differences, Episode 171 - Is it safe to disagree with me?

"I'm going to start from the assumption that they're doing that because they're in distress, because they're anxious, because they're possibly feeling insecure, or they're fearing failure. And to expect that they're going to have the ability to then show up well in the space between is unrealistic."Karen & Paul explore how gut feelings that something isn't right often stem from personal or shared history. Links and items mentioned in this episode:Employing Differences, Episode 217 - How can I repair trust?

"As long as I'm sitting in a place of any outcome anybody's talking about, totally works for me. I can take my energy and go home and spend my time doing whatever else would be useful for my time and energy and it will actually make the community process go faster and better because they have one less person getting tangled up in it."Karen & Paul discuss how sometimes energy is wasted on issues that may not be significant or real.

"We don't just show up fresh to every conversation. We bring with us all kinds of things that are outside the room into the room we're having the conversation with."Karen & Paul discuss their experiences with not being at their best when collaborating and offer strategies to maintain a healthy relationship with the team.

"If you are hoping to have ongoing relationships, either with individuals or with the group, you want to be thoughtful about what kind of relationships you hope those will be and what it will take to make that happen."Karen & Paul share tips on quitting or leaving a group.

"We often undervalue or we understate how much adding another person to a group makes it harder for the group to do its work. But we also want to make sure that the group isn't so small that there aren't perspectives that aren't being represented that need to be there."Karen & Paul talk about figuring out how many people should be in a group to get certain tasks done.

"If somebody else is doing it, think about them with curiosity and compassion. Why are they doing it? What are they needing? And how do we address that need, even though we don't sanction what they're doing to try and get that need met? And if it's spinning and it's just filling up your inbox, be willing to set a boundary to say, 'Nope, I'm opting out.'"Karen & Paul share how addressing issues via public online platforms or group channels can fuel emotional outbursts in group settings. 

"I always love asking the question, why is the problem a problem? Which is often a prompt that starts to get us into that reflective space."Karen & Paul share tips on how to handle a problem in a group that seems impossible to fix.

"I think it is often useful to ask for questions. But we need to do it in a way that's  effective and that helps us move towards the goals that we have for asking for them." Karen & Paul share ways to run an effective Q&A.

"There are a variety of different roles that I might end up playing because of my natural tendencies, because of my skills, because of my needs for things to happen. And sometimes what happens in a group is I really don't want to do that."Paul & Karen discuss what keeps us playing the same roles in groups, even when we'd rather not.

"Before I give somebody some feedback, I actually want to ask them, are they open to it? I want to ask this question because if my intention is to actually share some information that's going to help them to do something effective in the future, then I need to know that they're in a space where they could hear it." Karen & Paul talk about being at choice about how, when, and even if we receive feedback.

"When we go to work with somebody else, it's pretty easy to find myself saying, 'Man, I wish they would just show up on time." Or, 'Man, I wish they would just be organized and not be constantly asking me for the stuff that I already sent them.' Or, 'I wish they would dream along with me so that I'm not off by myself coming up with all the big ideas.'"Paul & Karen talk about the challenge of working with other people who aren't exactly like us.

"We shouldn't expect that things will always go perfectly, that we will never fail to deliver on our obligations. The need to repair trust isn't a sign that this is a broken, dysfunctional relationship. It's normal, it's just unfortunate."Karen & Paul discuss rebuilding trust when we didn't do something we were supposed to.

"The way you share bad news has an impact on the relationship; on that space between; in that collaborative space. So we want to explore today ways that you can share that bad news in a way that works; in a way that maybe avoids some of the things that we think might go wrong; that actually helps us to work through the sharing of the bad news together."Paul & Karen share advice for talking about hard things in ways that strengthen the working relationship.This is the second of a two-part series that started with Episode 215.

"How relevant is it to them in terms of their decision-making? What sort of agency are they gonna have when this comes out? Because if it's something that's uncertain, that they can't actually do anything about, and they're just gonna stew on it and cogitate, ruminate, and stress about it, then maybe it makes sense not to share it until we know it's more likely that it's actually gonna happen." Karen & Paul when – and when not – to share with a group things that they don't want to hear.This is the first of a two-part series that concludes with Episode 216.

"Sometimes there are actual consequences that do need to go along when things go wrong, but it's far less often than we actually seem to think when somebody is saying there needs to be more accountability." Paul & Karen discuss what do to when we did have shared expectations about what we needed to do, but we still didn't get the results we wanted.This is the second of a two-part series that started with Episode 213.