POPULARITY
25 episodes with joe pine
8 episodes with joe pine
9 episodes with joe pine
4 episodes with joe pine
5 episodes with joe pine
3 episodes with joe pine
4 episodes with joe pine
2 episodes with joe pine
2 episodes with joe pine
This solo episode of Just Press Record explores why purpose, place, and people are essential to meaningful experiences, personal transformation, and human connection.Matt Zeigler connects recent trips to Chicago, St. Louis, and a World Cup match in Philadelphia with lessons from Chuck Marohn, Aaron Hurst, Joe Pine, Shannon Staton, Kate Bradley Chernis, and D.A. Wallach on travel, serendipity, community, and belonging.Main topics coveredWhy travel makes us more open to new experiences and better decisionsHow life transitions create moments where people are ready to changeWhy saying yes to small opportunities can lead to memorable experiencesThe power of programmed serendipity in work, travel, and relationshipsWhy in-person meetings still matter in a remote work worldHow unplanned conversations create deeper professional and personal bondsThe difference between efficiency and connectionWhy live sports and shared culture create powerful human experiencesHow taste tribes help people find belonging outside politics and workWhy purpose, place, and people are a useful framework for building a more meaningful lifeTimestamps00:00 Why purpose, place, and people matter02:19 How travel opens us up to transformation03:32 Saying yes to the hotel upsell in Chicago06:00 Why the best travel moments are often unplanned07:29 Taking the train to St. Louis and returning to the office09:10 Programmed serendipity and transformative experiences11:12 Why the best work trip moments are not on the agenda12:31 How in-person time turns handshakes into hugs13:23 Deciding to go to the World Cup15:27 Taste tribes, culture, and belonging18:03 The power and pageantry of a live World Cup match19:42 Purpose, place, and people as a framework for life21:31 Why meaningful experiences are worth prioritizing22:00 Final thoughts and where to find more from Matt Zeigler
Interview with Joe Pine , author of The Transformation Economy - We discuss what AI cannot do: Stage Experiences & Guide Transformations... And how accountants can win the "can't AI do that?" narrative....
What if the real goal of customer experience isn't delivering better experiences at all?In this episode of The Trusted Guide Podcast, Mark Slatin sits down with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and one of the most influential thinkers in customer experience and business strategy.Joe argues that we're entering the next stage of economic value creation—one where organizations create value not merely through products, services, or experiences, but by helping people become who they aspire to be.At the heart of this conversation is a powerful idea: transformation requires identity change.Together, Mark and Joe explore what this means for customer experience professionals, business leaders, and anyone responsible for leading change. If customers are ultimately seeking a better version of themselves, how should that change the way we design experiences, build relationships, and measure success? And what can change leaders learn from this insight when trying to influence stakeholders and drive organizational transformation?In this episode, you'll learn:• Why transformation is fundamentally about identity• The difference between experiences and transformations• What organizations miss when they focus only on customer satisfaction• How understanding identity can create deeper customer loyalty and engagement• Why successful change leadership requires helping people become, not just doWhether you're leading customer experience, organizational change, or business transformation, this conversation will challenge you to rethink what people are really seeking—and how leaders can help them get there.
I gave the opening keynote of the Meaningful XR Conference on May 30, 2026, and here's the video version of my keynote talk titled: "Patterns of Meaning, Transformation, and Impact in XR" and here is the PDF of the slides with clickable footnotes. In this talk, I cover my Experiential & Phenomenological Framework, discuss the Impulse Impact Study that came out on May 28th (see my discussion in episode #1721). I cover a bit about the Transformation Economy (see my interview with Joe Pine in episode #1718), Mission-Oriented Change, & Co-Creation, as well as cover some Other Models for Paradigm Shifts, and finally dive into AI & Friction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-XNH4upTVw This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon. Music: Fatality
Management advisor and author Joe Pine explores a question that sits beneath most business strategy discussions but is rarely addressed directly: what business is ultimately for. Drawing on decades of work spanning mass customization, the experience economy, and his latest research on transformation, Pine argues that many companies misunderstand the real value customers seek and therefore stop too early in how they create value. The conversation begins with the progression from goods and services to experiences and transformations. Pine explains that transformations differ from experiences in one critical way: they must endure through time. "Memories of experiences fade over time," he says, "but transformations have to be sustained through time, or you did not in fact transform." A central idea throughout the episode is that "all transformation is identity change." Pine argues that meaningful transformation is not simply behavioral improvement, but a shift in how people understand themselves, whether through enhancement, expansion, cultivation, or complete metamorphosis. The discussion also explores where aspirations come from. One of Pine's deeper observations is that many aspirations emerge after disruption, trauma, illness, divorce, loss, or failure. The traumatic event changes a person immediately; the transformation comes afterward in the effort to become whole again. Pine is careful to distinguish between what companies can and cannot do. "You don't transform people as a company," he explains. "They transform themselves. You create the conditions under which" transformation becomes possible. Another major theme concerns how businesses price value. Pine argues that companies often reveal what business they are truly in through what they charge for. Commodities are priced as undifferentiated inputs, services as activities, experiences as time, and transformations as outcomes. "You are what you charge for," he says repeatedly throughout the discussion. The conversation ultimately expands into a broader philosophy of business itself. Pine argues that the true purpose of business is not profit maximization alone, but "to foster human flourishing", helping people become "more of who they are meant to be." In this framework, profit is not the purpose of business, but the result of creating genuine human value over time. The episode also examines resistance to identity change, sustaining long-term transformation, coaching and guidance, the future role of AI, and why Pine believes artificial intelligence will function primarily as a tool that helps people live and work more effectively rather than replacing human purpose altogether. For executives, consultants, educators, coaches, and operators, the conversation offers a deeper framework for understanding differentiation, customer value, and the growing shift from selling products and services to guiding lasting human transformation. Get The Transformation Economy here: https://tinyurl.com/5663jcjj Claim your free gift: Free gift #1 McKinsey & BCG winning resume www.FIRMSconsulting.com/resumePDF Free gift #2 Breakthrough Decisions Guide with 25 AI Prompts www.FIRMSconsulting.com/decisions Free gift #3 Five Reasons Why People Ignore Somebody www.FIRMSconsulting.com/owntheroom Free gift #4 Access episode 1 from Build a Consulting Firm, Level 1 www.FIRMSconsulting.com/build Free gift #5 The Overall Approach used in well-managed strategy studies www.FIRMSconsulting.com/OverallApproach Free gift #6 Get a copy of Nine Leaders in Action, a book we co-authored with some of our clients: www.FIRMSconsulting.com/gift
On February 3rd, 2026, Joe Pine released The Transformation Economy, which is a follow-up to The Experience Economy co-written with James Gilmore and published in 1999. They identified a key pattern of how economic offerings have evolved beyond commodities, goods, and services, and moved into experiences as well as transformations. Their prescient predictions about these underlying patterns in the late '90s took many years of convincing businesses of their merits. But after a few decades, their core ideas of The Experience Economy have taken root, and now it is much easier to see how consumers have shown that they are willing to pay for memorable experiences. Now Pine is back at it again with The Transformation Economy with ideas that have been there from the very beginning, but he told me that the world wasn't ready yet, and he wasn't ready either. About 5-6 years ago, Pine started to hear from designers at World Experience Organization events talking about the transformative intent behind their experiences. This was the catalyst indicating to him that it was time to finally write this book, and he started researching the topics of aspiration, positive psychology, human flourishing, and the dynamics of transformation. I had a chance to interview Pine about The Transformation Economy, and in my write-up below I provide an overview of some of his biggest ideas, some of my personal reactions, how they relate to the XR industry, and finally some of my disagreements on where value comes from. Despite some of my philosophical disagreements with Pine, I still see a lot of value in the frameworks laid out in his book. He describes a roadmap towards a future where the core values driving a critical mass of businesses have evolved to focus on helping their customers fulfill their deepest aspirations, find meaning and purpose, and promote human flourishing. Progression of Economic Value Pine & Gilmore first theorized about a hierarchy of economic value in a 1997 article titled: "Beyond Goods and Services: Staging Experiences and Guiding Transformations." They originally called it "The Economic Pyramid," and described it by saying, "The inexorable march of competitive forces drives the advancement of economic offerings over time: commodities are extracted from the environment to make goods, then delivered as services, which are scripted to stage experiences, which then guide those persons or enterprises in a transformation." "The Progression of Economic Value" figure from page 3 of Pine's The Transformation Economy (2026). Within their "Welcome to the Experience Economy" article in the 1998 issue of Harvard Business Review and in their 1999 book The Experience Economy, they started calling it "The Progression of Economic Value" as shown in the figure above. In The Transformation Economy on page x, Pine describes each of the five distinct economic genres as well as their associated verb / function, Extract Commodities (fungible stuff) Make Goods (tangible things) Deliver Services (intangible activities) Stage Experiences (memorable events) Guide Transformations (effectual outcomes) There is an inevitable gravity towards commodification, and the antidote is customization. This insight first came to Pine in 1994 after he wrote a book in 1993 titled Mass Customization: The New Frontier in Business Competition that explored how Mass Production was moving into Mass Customization. When customization is applied to a service, then it yields an experience. When customization is applied to an experience, then it has the potential to yield a transformation that could be life-changing. Here's how Pine & Gilmore described this progression to transformations in their original 1997 article, "The way out of the commodization trap in which so many service companies find themselves is to move up an echelon of value and stage an experience. But experiences are not the utmost in economic offerings. Just as customizing a good automatically turns it into a service, so customizing an experience turns it into something distinct. If you design an experience so in tune with what an individual needs at an exact juncture in time, you cannot help but change that individual — guiding him to (and through) a life-transforming experience. Transformations are a fifth economic offering, whose value far exceeds that of any other." Pine also says in The Transformation Economy that "Eliminating human contact is a surefire way to commoditize yourself." Technology has an inclination to move more and more towards automation and creating "frictionless experiences," but I see the value of human intuition, emotion, relationality, community, and meaning being a differentiating factor in the transformation economy. I suspect that it will be really beneficial to deliberately embrace friction and tension that comes from interacting with other humans as explored in the piece called Deep Soup. I see the movement towards the transformational economy as a bit of an argument against automating too many things with AI because people will be craving authentic human contact. Key Concepts and My Personal Experience of The Transformation Economy The Transformation Economy book is written with the intention to become a transformational experience within itself. There are many pointed questions throughout the book that helped shape my overall framing through the lens of my business. My first reading of the book was focusing on trying to understand the origin, development, and evolution of Pine's provocative ideas to explore within my interview with him. My ongoing second reading of the book has catalyzed me to reconceive some fundamental notions around my identity, as well as the story of why I do what I do with The Voices of VR Podcast. So much of my work has been driven by a fundamental impulse to bring about change in the world. My motivation to cover the frontiers of emerging technology with XR, AI, immersive storytelling, and experiential design has been because I've seen the transformative power of embodied and immersive experiences to potentially bring about some meaningful changes in the world. I'm also very much drawn to philosophical frameworks like Process Philosophy that provide some key metaphysical foundations leading to a paradigm shift around the underlying nature of experience and reality itself. Here's a graphic from Andrew Davis' upcoming Whitehead's Universe book that lays out some of the scaffolding of this paradigm shift from substance metaphysics to process-relational metaphysics. Davis, Andrew M. (Forthcoming in 2026). Whitehead's Universe: A Prismatic Introduction. Orbis Books. One of the key concepts that really stuck with me from Pine's The Transformation Economy was at the beginning of the third chapter that says, "All transformation is identity change." Pine cites Suzy Ross' definition of identity as "all the ways you can complete the statement ‘I am . . .' " He says "From / To" statements are also key where you might say, "I was X, now I am Y." I really resonate with these definitions of identity since they're very flexible and practical. Once I became aware of these "I am ..." statements, then I started to hear them all the time. I found myself naturally making and reflecting upon identity statements, which provide clues to changes that I aspire to. As an example, I've often found myself saying something to the effect of "I'm more a knowledge artist than a viable business person." So in essence, my aspirational, identity-transformation statement is "I am a terrible business person, but I aspire to become a thriving independent scholar and transformational change agent." Reading through The Transformation Economy has been really inspiring since it's the first business book I've ever read where I can really see myself in these frameworks. Pine has been giving me language to articulate the possible futures that I'd love to live into, but yet the business models around the transformation economy are still nascent, uncertain, not very well specified, and rapidly developing. Each business will have a unique blend of commodities, goods, services, experiences, and/or transformations that they'll be offering, and so it is unlikely that there will be a universal formula that works across all contexts. I'm still meditating on this statement where Pine claims that your business is what you charge for. He says on page 22, "A business ultimately defines itself by what it charges for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for tangible things, you are in the goods business. If you charge for the activities your people do, you are in the services business. So, economically, you are in the experience business if and only if you charge for the time customers spend with you." Pine says that experiences are inherently ephemeral, and sometimes the only thing you keep from it is the memory, which can fade over time. He contrasts this with his definition of transformations, which he shares on page 10 as, "Transformations are effectual outcomes that change individuals in a lasting way. Where experiences are memorable, transformations are effectual." This implies that the business offering of transformations actually has more of an ongoing time commitment. Businesses in the transformation economy will be helping "aspirants" (Pine's preferred term for customers in the transformation economy) achieve their aspirations of transforming from one state into another state over longer periods of time. Aspirants will need to invest time, be patient with results, make progress, but also deal with periodic regressions. I've been reckoning with how I am what I charge for, and I can't help but think about the logistical difficulty in trying to escape the real-time accounting of how we've conceived of value delivered
The Experience Expert met the Event Curator, and it turns out they'd been working on the same problem from opposite directions. Joe Pine, author of The Experience Economy and The Transformation Economy, and Shannon Staton, founder of Collective Experiences, sit down to talk about how you actually design, customize, and protect experiences that move people from simple “nice event” to something that changes them.They get into mass customization with Lego bricks and Coca-Cola machines, the progression from commodities to transformations, high-touch investor retreats, membership communities, and what it really means to take people from awkward handshakes to real hugs in just a few days.Topics coveredWhy “mass customization” is more than a business buzzwordHow Lego bricks explain the power of modular experience designJoe Pine's path from IBM to Mass Customization and The Experience EconomyShannon Staton's path from retail to Mauldin, Real Vision, and Collective ExperiencesWhy great events are built around people, not just content or speakersHow Collective Experiences creates high-trust, high-touch membership retreatsThe difference between goods, services, experiences, and transformationsHow companies and events get commoditized when they lose what made them specialWhat Starbucks reveals about the risk of making experiences feel less humanHow transformation happens when experiences help people become who they want to beWhy “handshakes to hugs” might be your best signal that an experience changed peopleThe challenge of keeping people genuinely connected after an event endsHow to “program serendipity” without over-scripting an experienceWhy structured reflection matters after meaningful experiencesHow frameworks can give language to things practitioners already do intuitivelyTimestamps00:00 Mass customization, experiences, and transformation03:00 Why Just Press Record puts two strangers together05:40 Meet Joe Pine06:00 Meet Shannon Staton08:39 Joe's first job as a ride operator10:52 Shannon's first job at Bed Bath & Beyond12:07 How Shannon's early work led to finance and events17:12 How getting fired helped launch Joe's career20:48 IBM, AS/400, and discovering customer uniqueness23:58 Shannon hears “mass customization” for the first time28:59 Lego building blocks and modular customization29:53 Dell, negative working capital, and customized computers31:08 How customized goods become services33:46 How customized services become experiences35:26 Shannon on the personal side of bringing people together36:47 Designing investor retreats around conversation and place40:39 What Collective Experiences is43:18 Joe Pine analyzes Shannon's membership model45:34 The progression of economic value47:15 Why experiences can become commoditized47:16 Starbucks, sensory design, and losing the human touch49:02 The Transformation Economy50:01 Memorable, meaningful, transporting, and transformative experiences50:38 Shannon on keeping Collective different01:12:00 Third places, chrysalis moments, and introverts at events01:13:00 Frameworks, intuition, and experience design01:17:00 Handshakes to hugs as a signal of transformation01:18:00 Giving language to what people already do01:19:07 Programming serendipity01:22:48 Keeping people connected after the experience ends01:23:36 Reflection and making experiences last01:25:08 Where to find Joe Pine
Andy Povey is joined by Andy Zimmerman, CEO of Journey, the global design and innovation agency behind some of the world's most innovative immersive experiences. Andy shares how Journey blends storytelling, technology, and multidisciplinary creativity to transform everything from theme parks and observation decks to healthcare and live entertainment. They discuss the shift from digital to real-world experiences, the importance of designing every touchpoint in the guest journey, and why the most memorable moments often happen before the main event even begins. Topics Discussed How Journey creates world-class immersive experiences across multiple industries Why storytelling is the foundation of every successful project Designing experiences beyond entertainment, including healthcare and hospitality The transformation of the Empire State Building visitor experience Lessons from Disney's MagicBand and pre-arrival guest engagement The growing demand for real-life, technology-enabled experiences How Journey combines diverse creative disciplines under one roof The future of immersive experiences and opportunities with influencer-led attractions Why every part of the guest journey, including queues, matters The shift from the experience economy to the transformation economy Show references: Andy Zimmerman, CEO of Journey https://journey.world/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/journeydotworld/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewzimmerman1/ Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here
For the first time on record, experience-based tenants — spas, gyms, wellness studios, entertainment venues — are outpacing traditional goods retailers in leasing shopping center space, with wellness and fitness leading the charge. Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas unpack what this shift actually means: it is not just a retail story, it is confirmation that the transformation economy Joe predicted more than two decades ago has arrived. The conversation traces the arc from malls to experiential anchors, examines why some brands (Red Bull) rode the wave and others (Nike) missed it, and lands on a provocation for any company still selling goods: if you want to sell products today, sell experiences. If you want to sell even more products, sell transformation. Key Takeaways The bifurcation is accelerating. Post-COVID data from high-end luxury shows goods flattening or declining in price while experiences shot upward. The Economist's October feature on high-net-worth luxury quietly re-labeled "services" as "experiences" in its TikTok follow-up — a small edit that tells the whole story. Experiential venues are the new anchors. The old mall anchor was a department store. The new anchor is an escape room cluster, a bowling alley that is really an entertainment complex, an NHL team's practice facility inside a converted suburban mall. Square footage is shifting toward places people want to spend time, not places they pass through. Goods still sell — but best through the experience. Joe's story about the original Nike Town in Chicago captures the mistake most brands still make: Nike Town had a line out the door and did not charge admission. Over time, goods crept back into the floor space that used to belong to basketball courts and events. Red Bull took the opposite path and became an experience company that sells an energy drink. The trajectories diverged for a reason. Experiences commoditize fast. SoulCycle opened a category; spin studios saturated it within a decade. The same glut is forming in spas and boutique gyms right now. The next move is specialization and bespoke combinations — and beyond that, transformation. Transformation is the durable business model. Experiences are episodic. Transformations are long-term engagements, which makes them long-term revenue. Aransas frames the shift cleanly: not just time well spent, but time well invested. Companies that move from experience provider to journey partner earn a different kind of relationship — and a different kind of margin. Social media is an experience platform. Influencers are in the experience business. Some investors will not touch a product today until the influencer strategy is nailed down. Advertising and packaging are shrinking as a share of how people discover and buy. Memorable Moments Joe's recap of his Monaco keynote at the Forbes Travel Guide Summit, where luxury goods manufacturers showed up because they are all getting into luxury experiences now The Nike Town queue that was not charging admission — and what it foreshadowed about Nike's retreat from flagship experiences Dave on the Utah Mammoth buying a suburban mall and turning most of the square footage into a place fans come to watch practice Aransas on walking out of a spa day carrying products because she had just seen, on her own face, what they actually do The throwaway that lands: "Gosh, we're smart." The Strategic Question for Every Brand If you sell goods, where is your experiential venue — physical or virtual — and what transformation are you actually offering the customer who shows up? The brands that answer this well over the next five years will be the ones occupying the square footage the department stores used to hold. Also In This Episode Aransas's Substack is now the 30th fastest-rising publication in Health and Wellness on the platform. Subscribe, Share, Comment If this conversation sparked something, share it with a colleague and leave a comment. We read them. And subscribe to the Substack for the written companion to the show. Joe is heading out on book tour for The Transformation Economy. We will be back soon.
From Experiences to Transformations: The Future of Value Creation. Full show notes here With Rory HenryThe Holistic Guide to Wealth ManagementWhen advisors talk about differentiating themselves from the pack, the conversation often centers on providing better service models, improved technology, or more personalized experiences. But according to Fortune 500 management advisor Joe Pine, those levers are no longer enough. The real opportunity lies one level deeper: helping clients change.MORE Rory Henry | MORE The Holistic Guide to Wealth Management | MORE CPA Trendlines Streaming NetworkCofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, Pine is the co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the newly released The Transformation Economy. He argues that the U.S. economy has continued its long arc first from commodities, then to goods, services and experiences, and now to transformations. In this next transformation phase, the customer is no longer buying a product, activity or even a memorable event. They are investing in who they want to become.
My guest today is Joe Pine. He is an author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He consults with numerous companies around the world, helping them embrace the ideas and frameworks he writes about, develop concepts for creating more economic value, and see those concepts become reality. The topic is his book The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. In this episode of Trend Following Radio we discuss: Evolution from experience economy to transformation economy Businesses guiding customers to achieve aspirations Charging based on outcomes instead of time Spheres of transformation health wealth wisdom purpose and meaning Role of AI and personalization in enabling transformation platforms Jump in! --- I'm MICHAEL COVEL, the host of TREND FOLLOWING RADIO, and I'm proud to have delivered 10+ million podcast listens since 2012. Investments, economics, psychology, politics, decision-making, human behavior, entrepreneurship and trend following are all passionately explored and debated on my show. To start? I'd like to give you a great piece of advice you can use in your life and trading journey… cut your losses! You will find much more about that philosophy here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/trend/ You can watch a free video here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/video/ Can't get enough of this episode? You can choose from my thousand plus episodes here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/podcast My social media platforms: Twitter: @covel Facebook: @trendfollowing LinkedIn: @covel Instagram: @mikecovel Hope you enjoy my never-ending podcast conversation!
My guest today is Joe Pine. He is an author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He consults with numerous companies around the world, helping them embrace the ideas and frameworks he writes about, develop concepts for creating more economic value, and see those concepts become reality. The topic is his book The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. In this episode of Trend Following Radio we discuss: Evolution from experience economy to transformation economy Businesses guiding customers to achieve aspirations Charging based on outcomes instead of time Spheres of transformation health wealth wisdom purpose and meaning Role of AI and personalization in enabling transformation platforms Jump in! --- I'm MICHAEL COVEL, the host of TREND FOLLOWING RADIO, and I'm proud to have delivered 10+ million podcast listens since 2012. Investments, economics, psychology, politics, decision-making, human behavior, entrepreneurship and trend following are all passionately explored and debated on my show. To start? I'd like to give you a great piece of advice you can use in your life and trading journey… cut your losses! You will find much more about that philosophy here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/trend/ You can watch a free video here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/video/ Can't get enough of this episode? You can choose from my thousand plus episodes here: https://www.trendfollowing.com/podcast My social media platforms: Twitter: @covel Facebook: @trendfollowing LinkedIn: @covel Instagram: @mikecovel Hope you enjoy my never-ending podcast conversation!
In this episode, Stuart Greif, Chief Strategy & Innovation Officer at Forbes Travel Guide, shares an inside look at The Summit by Forbes Travel Guide, where the world's top luxury hospitality leaders gathered to celebrate, learn, and experience hospitality. Stuart explains how the event brought together luxury brands such as Bugatti, Michelin-starred chefs such as Daniel Boulud and Alain Ducasse, and speakers ranging from Chris Gardner to Joe Pine -- and why hospitality is becoming the unifying thread across luxury automotive, fashion, and real estate. A few more resources:If you're new to Hospitality Daily, start here. You can send me a message here with questions, comments, or guest suggestionsIf you want to get my summary and actionable insights from each episode delivered to your inbox each day, subscribe here for free.Follow Hospitality Daily and join the conversation on YouTube, LinkedIn, and Instagram.If you want to advertise on Hospitality Daily, here are the ways we can work together.If you found this episode interesting or helpful, send it to someone on your team so you can turn the ideas into action and benefit your business and the people you serve!Music for this show is produced by Clay Bassford of Bespoke Sound: Music Identity Design for Hospitality Brands
Is your consulting or coaching business in the product, service, or transformation business? Today's episode is all about getting your consulting or coaching business firmly into the transformation business. And that means shifting your perspective on whatever you do with your clients or what you want to sell them from the end… to the means to a bigger end, which is what your clients truly desire… …achieving their aspirations and becoming who they want to become. Without this shift, we leave value on the table. To help us unpack this and create the path from products to services to experiences to transformations, I'm beyond excited to bring you author, speaker, and advisor to Fortune 500 companies like my beloved Disney, where I first got introduced to his work back in 1999 when I was a brand-new organization development consultant, Joe Pine. One of my first projects at Disney was with the Fort Wilderness Campgrounds. The GM was Cesar, and at our first meeting, he handed me Joe's Experience Economy book and asked for my help implementing these principles to stage more engaging, immersive experiences for the guests at the Fort. So I have been a fan of Joe's work since then. And even more so with his book on the Transformation Economy, which made me realize why I have butterflies all over the place, and as the icon of my logo, because of how much I love this industry and how much this is such a key part of what I do. In today's episode, we're getting into: The differences between the product, service, experience, and transformation economy What transformation really is, and how understanding that transforms your understanding of what your product actually is The steps you need to take to make the shift into transformation Chapters 00:00 Is Your Business a Service or a Transformation? 02:30 What Is the Experience Economy (Simple Breakdown) 08:54 Products → Services → Experiences → Transformations Explained 12:30 How This Applies to Consultants & Coaches 19:01 Why Transformation (Not Coaching) Is What Clients Buy 24:57 The Shift: The Client Is the Product 32:16 The Real Starting Point: Disruption, Not Strategy 36:00 How to Design Transformational Client Experiences 47:41 Why Most Consultants Think Too Small 55:11 Will AI Replace Coaches? The Real Answer 01:05:27 How to Charge for Transformation (Not Time) Next Steps Get clear on the transformation you deliver. What is different for your client because they worked with you. Check out Joe's book to dive into this more. Look at your client journey and elevate one moment. Where can you be more intentional, more thoughtful, more experiential If you are ready to move from service provider to strategic partner, connect with me to clarify your positioning and build an offer that reflects your true value. Learn more here https://www.betsyjordyn.com/services Other episodes you may enjoy: How to Start Your Consulting Business Right…the First Time with Sara Guttman (Ep153) Why Brand Clarity Is About Trust with Dr. J.B. Adams (Ep152) 3 Types of Consulting /Coaching Expertise: Which one is yours? (Ep147) 5 Truths About Branding, I Only Saw After Tearing My Process Apart (Ep146) Inside My Brand Messaging Process (and Why It Always Works) (Ep140) About my guest: B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a consulting studio focused on helping organizations create new forms of value. He is best known for co-authoring The Experience Economy, a landmark book that redefined how businesses compete by staging memorable experiences rather than simply delivering goods and services, and his latest work, The Transformation Economy, builds on that foundation by showing how businesses can guide customers toward meaningful outcomes and lasting change. Through his work, Pine helps leaders elevate their offerings, rethink their positioning, and design experiences that drive both impact and revenue. Learn more at https://strategichorizons.com/ About the host: Betsy Jordyn is a business mentor, brand messaging strategist, and former Disney consultant who helps purpose-driven consultants and coaches build profitable businesses rooted in their unique strengths. With over 20 years in the industry and a knack for turning big ideas into clear positioning, she's your go-to for strategy that aligns with your calling. Work with me: https://www.betsyjordyn.com/services
Second City Works presents "Getting to Yes, And" on WGN Plus
Kelly talks to Joe Pine, an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design new ways to add value to their economic offerings. He is the co-author of the best-seller “The Experience […]
ABOUT JOE PINE: Joe's LinkedIn profile; linkedin.com/in/joepine Websites: strategichorizons.com (Blog) StrategicHorizons.com (Company) strategichorizons.com (Personal) SHOW INTRO: Today, EPISODE 86… I talk with Joe Pine Joe Pine, an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike... * * * * I've been in the world of retail place-making for a few decades. 3 would qualify as ‘a few' I guess. I took a detour for a few years in the late 20-teens, shifting from retail design into the play space of hospitality – a wonderful diversion. The transition was transformative to be sure. I got to re-imagine what I knew about customer experience place making in terms of retail stores and turn my lens towards another fascination – hotels. The interesting thing that emerged was the recognition that in the world of retail everyone, brands, and retail designers and architects alike, were all going on about experience. Now this in and of itself was curious because I'd been designing stores for a couple decades, and I couldn't recall one client who had ever come to the game and said – ‘hey lets create a really miserable experience for our customers…' ‘…Let's make it hard to understand the assortment, hard to read the labels, bathe the product in bad lighting, have people walk the store not being able to find the thing they came in for, etc…' Not one. Ironically though, while many clients never asked for that, we have all had the experience of that exactly being the case in many stores we go to. So no,… creating a bad experience was never the strategy. We retail designers always sought to create places where positive experience was key. The stuff was important to be sure, but the experience - the emotional residue of the retail interaction - was what was critically important. The stuff was supposed to deliver on what it purported to do, fit well, wear well, not break down, taste good, make you feel better, whatever… it was supposed to work. Otherwise why buy it? In some cases, the stuff just had to deliver on its practical, functional level, it didn't need to give you more than that. It was a commodity that lived up to its promise. In other cases the stuff delivered on function but gave you oh so much more on an emotional, socio-cultural, psychological, spiritual, level… and all of that is about brand relevance and emotional impact of owning the thing – what it says about you. It's like looking at the difference between a paper bag which you could get for about 5 cents and a Birkin bag for which you'd drop $50,000. They both provide the same functional use – they carry other stuff – I think we could make a pretty sound argument that that is true. But now the Birkin bag, well… it is supposed to offer you so much more about who you are, and what tribe you run with and a host of other non-tangibles that deeply connect us to a brand. Things way beyond function. And if the paper bag got wet and fell apart, well… you could be confident that for the price of the Birkin bag you could literally get a million replacements. The interesting thing about the stuff, or services, in retail places whether a commodity or something altogether magnificent and magical was that in either case we had to wrap it in positive experience. Mess up the experience and you've damaged the relationship. And repairing that rupture can take some time. So, experience matters because the overt and subtle messaging that accompanies a shopping trip is important in fostering the long-term connection between a customer, product (or service) and the brand. The value proposition that determines my choice of one brand or retailer over another can't just be they have lots of whatever it is at low prices. Price point and SKU count are not differentiators in an economy where you can get virtually anything on Amazon and have it delivered to your door and, as a brand or retailer, you are hoping to engage an emerging cohort of customers who craves more than getting a good deal. Now... the interesting thing about hospitality is that industry never really sold stuff. You didn't take home the hotel room (at least not until more recently). You took in, and took home, experience - the body memory and emotional residue of being there. Your stuff, as it were, was a camera full of images and tchotchkes bought along the way during the trip that serve as a conduit or a link to, or a trigger of memories and emotional responses to experiences previously lived. You don't bring home the hotel room, though you can now buy the Westin Heavenly bed and all of the linens – I have often wondered why, if I love the room décor, I can't just walk around with my phone and point it at QR codes on everything and in a flash have the whole thing purchased and sent off to my home or apartment to redo the guest room – or my own bedroom for that matter? So…in the end retail sells stuff and wraps it in experience and hotels only sells experience though the industry is starting to get it that selling stuff may extend the brand experience beyond the hotel stay into your home…. Another interesting distinction between hospitality and retail is time. In the hospitality world you spend an overnight or maybe a few days immersed in the brand experience. In a retail store dwell time is often measured in seconds or minutes. This matters because it suggests that retail has to come on strong and be impactful quickly, capturing interest and trying to hold it. Everyone in retail knows the longer the stay the more conversion – larger basket size. Get customers to linger longer and their consideration of other things that were not on their primary shopping list begin to be a little more interesting. There are environments that sell spectacle, the digitally immersive environments that we see emerging into the market like Moment Factory Lumina walks, meow wolf, the Monet digital experiences and things like Artechouse. While they are visual captivating, what is being sold is time in the form of 20-minute shows and 2 hour walks in a midnight forest. Time is the currency of experiences, and more companies should figure out how to charge for it. The both challenge and opportunity here is that in an economy that seems to be time starved because our attention is so fractured into micro moments, time and attention are intricately intertwined. And the rules of basic economics are at play suggesting that the more scarce something is the more expensive it becomes to acquire it. Customer acquisition when pedaling time becomes a costly endeavor. But then time seems to pass by without notice when experience is built on a good story. All good experiences engage the imagination in narrative. We are built for story more than logic though we have believed the at later is the dominant prowess of our species. And stories directly effect our neurobiology in remarkable ways that allow the narrative to come alive in us. Remember, that we came to understand the world through dance, rhythm and stories told around fires for millenia - even before language became a prime vehicle for expression. Our affinity for story is deeply woven into our very beings. So, all great experiences are built on great stories. Narrative manifest become brand experience places. These places for selling goods and services are like stage sets for stories to unfold. I love the theatre and have always felt that retailers and brands should instruct their sales associates to act out their parts in the brand narrative and embrace the idea of theater as a customer interaction strategy. I've always thought of the theatre as something into which I dove for a time, becoming full emersed in the story and emerged somehow changed. I learned something I didn't know previously, saw the world from a different point of view, I would become one of the characters in the story and was, may be, in some way transformed. Certainly during the performance, I was definitely in and out of body state – no longer me. The world beyond the story unfolding in front of me disappeared for a time. And so great experiences can also be transformative... The NXTLVL Experience Design podcast is presented by VMSD magazine and Smartwork Media. It is hosted and executive produced by David Kepron. Our original music and audio production is by Kano Sound. The content of this podcast is copywrite to David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design. Any publication or rebroadcast of the content is prohibited without the expressed written consent of David Kepron and NXTLVL Experience Design.Make sure to tune in for more NXTLVL “Dialogues on DATA: Design Architecture Technology and the Arts” wherever you find your favorite podcasts and make sure to visit vmsd.com and look for the tab for the NXTLVL Experience Design podcast there too.
For the past decade, financial institutions have poured billions into improving customer experience. Digital journeys. Frictionless onboarding. Personalization. Higher satisfaction scores. But according to Joe Pine, that era is over. In this episode of Banking Transformed, I sit down with Joe, the author of The Transformation Economy and co-author of the landmark Experience Economy, to explore what comes after customer experience in banking. If experiences are now expected rather than differentiating, where should banks compete next? Joe argues that the next stage of value creation is transformation. Not better moments, but better outcomes. Not engagement metrics, but measurable progress in customers' financial lives We discuss what transformation really means for banking, why most institutions are still optimizing for the wrong thing, and why banks that fail to evolve risk becoming irrelevant in the most important conversations their customers are actually having. If your strategy still centers on CX as the competitive moat, this conversation will challenge your assumptions. Subscribe to Banking Transformed for weekly conversations with the leaders reshaping the future of financial services.
In DisrupTV Episode 430, R "Ray" Wang and Vala Afshar explore the next evolution of business value: the Transformation Economy. Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, explains why companies must move beyond staging memorable experiences and start guiding customers toward meaningful outcomes—helping them become healthier, wiser, more successful, or more purposeful. Later in the episode, CRM leaders Paul Greenberg and Brent Leary connect these ideas to real-world customer experience strategies, highlighting why convenience, community, and human-centered design still matter in an AI-driven world. From AI-powered personalization to purpose-driven business models, this episode explores how organizations can design experiences that don't just engage customers—but transform them.
The Experience Strategy Podcast | substack.theexperiencestrategist.com A post on X went viral — 38,000 reshares, 83 million reads. Written by respected AI voice Matt Schumer, it opens with a gut-punch analogy: think back to February 2020. Most of us weren't paying attention to a virus spreading overseas. Then in three weeks, everything changed. Schumer's argument is that we are in a similar "this seems overblown" phase right now — except what's coming is bigger than COVID. Dave, Joe, and Aransas dig into the article, push back where it's overblown, and land on what experience strategists actually need to do about it. What's in This Episode The article's core argument. AI isn't just getting better — it's getting faster, more capable at complex tasks, and increasingly independent of human involvement. The latest models are now building and debugging the next version of themselves. Schumer's point: no matter how complex or human your job feels, it's getting closer to AI's reach by the millisecond, not the minute. What Schumer says to do about it — and the team's reaction: Use AI seriously. Don't dabble. Understand what it can actually do. Get your financial house in order. This isn't the time to be overextended. Lean into what's hardest to replace. Anything you do primarily on a screen is likely a 1–2 year exposure. Rethink what you're telling your kids. Their dreams just got closer — and the path there looks different. Get in the habit of adapting now, not when you're forced to. Joe's take: good prescription, overblown description. AI is a tool, and no technology in history has eliminated more jobs than it created. The real question is mindset: executives who come to AI asking "how do I automate people out?" will find exactly that. Executives who ask "how do I augment my people?" will find something much more powerful in the human-plus-AI combination. The disruption, as with all disruptive innovation, starts at the bottom of the value chain and moves up — which means you need to be working above it. The echo chamber problem. Joe raises a concern that's already documented: AI increasingly trains on AI output, creating what researchers are calling model collapse — a cyclical echo chamber where biases get replicated and amplified rather than corrected. The telephone game at civilizational scale. Aransas connects this to the show Pluribus, which she found boring as a narrative but compelling as a metaphor for hive-mind homogenization. What experience strategists specifically need right now — three points from Dave: Provenance. As AI commoditizes outputs, original sources become more valuable, not less. If you're building consumer insights without actually talking to consumers, you're already three steps from provenance. The strategists who can signal authentic, original sourcing will be disproportionately valuable. Cross-disciplinary thinking. Experience strategists have been operating too narrowly — personas, journey maps, CX mechanics. AI gives you superpowers across marketing, planning, and adjacent disciplines. Use them. Going deeper on the same narrow lane is the wrong direction. A strategic point of view. Not an opinion. A point of view. The difference: a POV is grounded in a real perspective on where things are headed and what companies should do about it. Joe's Transformation Economy is the model. Right now, the most defensible experience POV is transformation — because transformation is the economic offering most deeply dependent on human expertise, authentic relationships, and the kind of curated AI deployment that actually requires strategic judgment. The era of typos and texture. Aransas's 15-year-old put it well: right now, the most human signal is imperfection. Messy feelings, quirky punctuation, genuine awkwardness — these are becoming markers of authenticity in a world of smoothed-out AI output. The demand for what feels genuinely human is rising alongside the supply of what doesn't. Key Quotes "Knowledge work has changed forever. That is going to be a rough adjustment for all of us — and all experience strategists are knowledge workers." — Dave Norton "If you come with the mindset of how can I get rid of people, you'll find ways to get rid of people. But if you come with a mindset of how this augments my people's skills and makes them better — you'll be amazed at what human plus AI can do." — Joe Pine "Provenance is going to become more and more important. The inputs have to be better. Original data, original source — how do you get to that?" — Dave Norton "The most defensible experience point of view you can have right now is probably transformation — because it's the one built on technology and human expertise together." — Aransas Savas "This isn't a sit-on-our-hands-and-wait situation. This is a get-engaged situation." — Aransas Savas Referenced "Something Big Is Happening" by Matt Schumer — [https://x.com/mattshumer_/status/2021256989876109403] The Transformation Economy by B. Joseph Pine II — available now wherever books are sold Anthropic CEO quote: "AI will be substantially smarter than almost all humans at almost all tasks by 2026 or 2027." The Experience Strategy Podcast is hosted by Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine. Subscribe at substack.theexperiencestrategist.com.
In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Ray Hole of Ray Hole Architects for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation about strategy, storytelling and the true economics of experience design. Key Topics Discussed The “Camelot” collaboration model in attraction development Experience economy vs. pure economics Primacy and recency effects in guest psychology Designing the departure experience Turning operational cost into experiential value Storytelling through architecture Instagrammable design and generational behaviour Empathy in ticketing and security Integrating accommodation into attraction strategy Converting capex into revenue-generating experiences Show References: Ray Hole, Managing Director of Ray Hole Architects https://www.rayhole-architects.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-hole-a6b7396/ Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here
This episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different reunites us with the renowned business thinker Joe Pine, whose work on the experience economy transformed how organizations define value. We join Christopher and Joe in tracing the progression from products and services to experiences, and now to transformations, where companies move beyond creating memorable moments to helping people achieve meaningful change. Through examples, definitions, and personal stories, they clarify what distinguishes an experience, why it has become central to modern economies, and how the emerging transformation economy repositions businesses as guides in their customers' journeys toward their aspirations. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Joe Pine on the Experience Economy and Changing Consumer Priorities Lochhead reflects on how Pine's book The Experience Economy revealed experiences as a distinct economic offering, separate from commodities, goods, and services. Pine defines experiences as events in which companies use goods as props and services as the stage to personally engage people and create lasting memories. They note how brands such as Starbucks intuitively staged experiences long before the concept had formal language. Today, cultural trends and research show that consumers, especially younger generations, increasingly value experiences over material possessions. Rather than accumulating things, people seek moments that feel meaningful, enjoyable, and worth remembering and sharing. Joe Pine on how Experiences Function in B2B Contexts Pine and Lochhead argue that experiences are just as critical in B2B environments as they are in consumer markets. Pine explains that the experience itself has become the most powerful form of marketing, because it earns attention, builds trust, and generates demand. They describe executive briefing centers, innovation hubs, and destination events where clients are welcomed into carefully designed environments that educate and inspire. Lochhead recalls building a Customer Welcome Center at Mercury Interactive and orchestrating every detail, from airport pickup to on-site interactions, as one cohesive journey. This stands in sharp contrast to traditional advertising, which is often fleeting and easily forgotten. From Experiences to Transformations The discussion culminates in Pine's concept of the transformation economy, introduced in his book The Transformation Economy. Transformations represent the next stage, where customers are no longer asking for moments to enjoy but for help becoming who they want to be. While experiences focus on time well spent, transformations emphasize time well invested. Joe Pine introduces the idea of encapsulation, which includes preparation before an experience, reflection afterward, and integration over time to sustain real change. Together, he and Lochhead connect this to their own work, designing not just books, but ecosystems of courses, communities, tools, and future technologies intended to guide lasting personal and professional growth. To hear more from Joe Pine about the Transformation Economy, download and listen to this episode. Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers. Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!
Joe Pine is an internationally recognized author, speaker, and advisor, best known for The Experience Economy and his latest work, The Transformation Economy. In this episode, Joe explains why the market is finally ready—25 years later—for the shift to the transformation economy. He walks through the evolution of economic value, from commodities to goods, services, experiences, and now transformations, and makes the case that businesses must stop charging for inputs and start charging for outcomes. Joe introduces the four spheres of transformation—Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and argues that the true role of business is human flourishing: helping people become who they're meant to be. Profit isn't the goal; it's the scorecard. We also explore "encapsulation"—preparation, reflection, and integration—and why it's the key to turning experiences into lasting change. Joe breaks down why outcomes-based pricing is both the hardest shift and the biggest opportunity for transformation-driven companies. In this conversation, you'll learn how to spot transformation opportunities in your business, move beyond time-based pricing, and align what you charge with what customers actually value. Find episode 499 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joe Pine on You're Charging for the Wrong Thing with Joe Pine https://bit.ly/TLP-499 Key Takeaways [04:04] Joe explains why the world is finally ready for the transformation economy after 25 years of people asking when he'd write this book. [09:11] The four spheres of transformation: Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and why almost every business can find themselves in at least one. [12:59] The difference between fitness centers (charging for time as an experience) versus personal trainers (instilling discipline for transformation). [17:42] Why companies must eventually align what they charge for with what customers value—and how this drives the shift to outcomes-based pricing. [22:09] Joe introduces "invitational transformations"—experiences that invite people to transform their identity (like the Guinness Storehouse or Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library). [26:38] Human flourishing defined: the extent to which people are who they're meant to be. This is the raison d'être of business. [34:09] The concept of encapsulation: Preparation (before the experience), Reflection (after), and Integration (ongoing)—the framework that turns experiences into transformations. [35:59] How Joe wrote the book on Substack, getting real-time feedback from subscribers that fundamentally changed key frameworks in the book. [44:18] Joe's vision for transformation businesses: charge for demonstrated outcomes, foster human flourishing, and recognize that profits measure how well you help people flourish—not the end goal itself. [46:46] And remember..."The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic. Transformation begins with a change in mindset." — Peter Drucker Quotable Quotes "You are what you charge for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for demonstrated outcomes that your customers achieve, you're in the transformation business." "Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value. Let me say it again: Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value." "Fostering human flourishing is the raison d'être of business, period. That's why business exists—to help people flourish." "Human flourishing is the extent to which people are who they're meant to be." "The irony is of course that you may be offering a transformation guarantee, but that's exactly what you can't actually do. You can't guarantee a transformation. However, the best way to get it to happen is to offer a guarantee." "Profits are never the end. They're always the measurement by which you achieve the ends of human flourishing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Joe Pine Website | www.strategichorizons.com Joe Pine X | @joepine Joe Pine LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joepine TLP004: Joe Pine - Visionary Leadership Instilling Purpose
Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.Chapters(00:00) - Welcome and Introduction (00:26) - Discussing the Experience Economy (00:43) - Introducing the Transformation Economy (01:26) - Understanding Transformations and Aspirations (04:15) - Frameworks for Identity Change (07:09) - Real-Life Examples of Transformations (13:27) - Pricing Transformations and Value (18:01) - Guaranteeing Transformations (22:52) - Navigating Client Relationships (23:08) - The Power of Commitment (23:58) - Value-Based Pricing (25:01) - The Turnaround King (26:15) - Maintaining Progress and Overcoming Setbacks (28:13) - Commitment to the Process (29:41) - Measuring Success and Transformation (36:51) - Creating a Sustainable Business Model (37:20) - Book Launch and Writing Process (42:05) - Conclusion and Resources Joe's BioB. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.Related LinksJoe's website » strategichorizons.comJoe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiencesJoe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!
In this episode, Rory speaks with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the new book The Transformation Economy, about the progression of economic value and why financial professionals are uniquely positioned to guide lasting change. Joe explains how we've moved from commodities to goods, services, and experiences and now into the Transformation Economy, where the true value lies in helping clients achieve their aspirations across health, wealth, wisdom, and purpose. He introduces the concept of the “aspirant,” explores why all transformation is identity change, and shares how preparation, reflection, and integration can turn ordinary client interactions into meaningful breakthroughs. They discuss why charging for outcomes aligns incentives, how AI can augment coaching, and why the future of advice is about guiding human flourishing, not just delivering a product or service. Want to know how to design client journeys that move beyond experiences and into true transformation? Curious how to become the guide to a clients' hero's journeys? Find out the answers to these questions and more in this forward-looking conversation with Joe Pine.
Oli Raison, co-founder of Safarini Leadership, designs immersive leadership expeditions in Kenya that combine cultural exchange with Samburu elders, wilderness trekking, and deep reflective coaching. In this conversation, Oli challenges one of leadership's most entrenched assumptions: that resilience is about individual grit and mental toughness. Drawing on the Samburu concept of naboisho—interdependence—he shows how real resilience is built through collective support, not solo endurance. He also names the single most important question leaders need to ask when entering any new culture or organization: What assumptions am I making? The catch? Most assumptions are invisible to us because they feel like "normal." Oli also explores why many wilderness and offsite leadership experiences fail to create lasting change, and shares his solution: a three-phase transformation framework—preparation, immersion, and integration—shaped by the work of past podcast guest, Joe Pine. This episode is an invitation to question your cultural defaults, rebuild genuine human connection, and develop a healthier relationship with time—so your leadership, and your team's resilience, can actually endure. Find episode 498 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Oli Raison on Why Grit Isn't Enough: Rethinking Resilience in Leadership https://bit.ly/TLP-498 Key Takeaways [04:12] Oli says the leadership assumption consistently dismantled his resilience—the Samburu are resilient through interdependence called "naboisho," not grit. [07:00] Oli identifies profound learning as the importance of having a shared sense of purpose and a very strong shared set of values. [08:31] Oli responds that people have very different expectations of leadership in different cultures around the world. [10:11] Oli reveals the Samburu doesn't have words for anxiety or depression and you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide. Oli notes loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. [12:00] Oli responds I think too much comfort can be a bad thing and people get discombobulated easily if things don't go quite to plan. [14:35] Oli answers the critical question leaders should ask: what assumptions am I making? Because we don't realize we're making assumptions. [17:07] Oli explains African societies have a fundamentally different understanding of time where there's always enough time. [20:10] Oli explains the Samburu are very spiritual people connected with their ancestors and you're also connected with your descendants. [22:30] Oli says mindset adjustment happens organically from just being offline during 10-day expeditions with six days of camel-supported trekking. [24:53] Oli describes their three-phase structure: preparation, immersion, and integration with coaching sessions at two, four, and six weeks after. [29:20] Oli responds his long-term impact is about flourishing, particularly helping men dealing with anxiety, depression, and suicidality. [31:43] Oli states his aspiration: how can we create workplaces, organizations and teams that flourish? Because that's when people really do their best work. [33:45] Jan shares his realization about keeping fingers on the keyboard versus closing the laptop because the most important thing is that person in front of you. [35:56] And remember..."One way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure." - William Feather Quotable Quotes "The Samburu, what makes them so resilient is this concept of interdependence, this reliance, this collective reliance on one another...if my cattle get wiped out because of a really challenging drought, I know that my neighbors are going to step in and they're going to give me some of their cattle." "Naboisho is a word in their language which kind of roughly translates to coming together or unity. And they often say things like 'we are because they are,' that we are all sort of in this together." "This is a society that doesn't have words for anxiety or depression. And you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide...loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day." "In the west, we think of time as a commodity. We think of time as something that can be saved, it can be wasted, it can be lost. And as a result of that, I feel that time is the master of us and we are not the master of time." "The Samburu always say there's always enough time because they don't think of time as this continuous thing...time occurs when events happen, it's more relational and it's more eventful." "What assumptions am I making? And this is tricky, right, because a lot of the time we don't realize we're making assumptions." "We don't need to be experts, but we do need to be detectives...what assumptions am I making that might be getting in my way?" "All of this technology is actually causing our brains to operate on a frequency that is not conducive with creative thought at all. And by being in nature, just that alone creates an environment for people to have some really powerful insights." "I think one of the things that people come away with is I really need to take more time out to just contemplate and to think. You know, think about your business, think about your life. We don't take time to think anymore. We're just reacting." "This obsession with hyper productivity is actually just, again, it's all distraction, you know, it's taking us away from just being with ourselves in the moment or being with somebody else." "In 1990, the average man had five close friends and now he has one...every minute that we spend on a device, on a phone, on a laptop, thinking that we're connecting is a minute that we're not spending really connecting with somebody." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Oli Raison LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/oli-raison-1107aa11/ Safarini Leadership Website | www.safarinileadership.com Safarini Leadership LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/company/safarini-leadership Safarini Leadership Instagram | @safarinileadership
Businesses don't win by selling more features or even better experiences anymore. In this episode, Joe Pine explains why the real value today comes from selling outcomes and guiding customers toward meaningful transformation. We unpack the transformation economy, how it differs from the experience economy, and why charging for outcomes changes pricing, guarantees, and business models. You will learn how both B2B and B2C companies can productize transformation, align messaging with real results, and help customers become who they want to be. Today we discussed: 00:00 Why Transformation Matters Now 11:43 Productizing Transformation 14:00 Pricing and Outcome-Based Models 16:48 Messaging Around Who Customers Become 20:16 How to Start a Transformation Strategy 24:28 Connect With Joe Rate, Review, & Follow If you liked this episode, please rate and review the show. Let us know what you loved most about the episode. Struggling with strategy? Unlock your free AI-powered prompts now and start building a winning strategy today!
In this special episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, Joe Pine shares with Dave and Aransas background about the book! To celebrate the release of his new book, The Transformation Economy. The conversation traces the book's origins from the final two chapters of The Experience Economy, explores why the world is finally ready for this idea, and unpacks key frameworks — including encapsulation (preparation, reflection, and integration) — that make experiences truly transformative. The trio also discusses the role of AI in enabling transformation, why businesses must foster human flourishing, and who stands to benefit most from reading the book. Key Topics Why now for The Transformation Economy? Joe waited over 25 years because "the world wasn't ready" and he "didn't know enough." Research through Stone Mantle's collaboratives, the World Experience Organization, and post-COVID shifts toward meaningful experiences signaled the time had come. Catalysts for transformation. The most prevalent catalyst is trauma — illness, loss, job changes, retirement. These disruptions create the conditions where people seek to see, do, and be differently. The four spheres of human flourishing: Health & well-being Wealth & prosperity Knowledge & wisdom Purpose & meaning Encapsulation — the essential framework (Chapter 4): To turn a memorable experience into a transformative one, you need three layers around the core experience: preparation (priming beforehand), reflection (making meaning afterward — which retroactively increases the value of the experience), and integration (sustaining change over time). The business model problem. Most companies get paid for the event, not the outcome. Shifting to outcome-based pricing — as McKinsey is doing with AI projects — aligns incentives with lasting transformation. AI as a transformation enabler. AI makes the hardest parts of delivering transformation (especially ongoing integration and support) dramatically more accessible and affordable. Who Should Read This Book? Companies in education, finance, health, and well-being Any business focused on improving the lives of families and individuals The creator economy — creators already doing transformation work who need frameworks to do it well and realize its full value Notable Quotes "The entire raison d'être of business is to foster human flourishing." — Joe Pine "Reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience." — Joe Pine "If you don't do it, it's just lazy." — Aransas Savas, on using available technology to encapsulate experiences Mentioned in This Episode The Transformation Economy by Joe Pine The Experience Economy by Joe Pine & Jim Gilmore Stone Mantel's Experience Strategy Collaboratives The World Experience Organization (founded by James Wallman) Arrival 360 Conference Daniel Kahneman's experiencing self vs. remembering self McKinsey's outcome-based AI pricing model Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper's time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn't pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that's truly the identity shift I'm actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper's entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We've been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book's co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he's back.It's been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I'm fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we've got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I'd love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd
Summary In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the burgeoning field of longevity and transformation. They explore the aspirations of individuals seeking to live longer and healthier lives, the shift in healthcare from a reactive to a proactive approach, and the role of social proof in driving transformation. The conversation also touches on the evolution of trust in the age of social media, the changing narrative around aging, and the future accessibility of longevity solutions. Takeaways People aspire to live longer and healthier lives. The healthcare industry is shifting from fixing problems to promoting flourishing. Social proof is becoming increasingly important in the transformation economy. Decentralized trust is shaping how people validate health claims. The placebo effect plays a significant role in perceived health outcomes. Aging is often misunderstood; many peak in their 50s and 60s. The evolution of science and brand is changing customer expectations. Wealthy individuals often drive innovation in health and longevity. The future of longevity solutions may become more accessible over time. Trust in brands is less centralized and more influenced by personal experiences. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Transformation and Longevity 03:10 The Ambition of Living Longer and Healthier 05:59 The Shift in Healthcare: From Fixing to Flourishing 09:07 The Role of Social Proof in the Transformation Economy 12:16 The Impact of Personal Research and Influencers 15:13 The Evolution of Science and Brand in Health 18:02 Reframing Aging: Opportunities in the Second Half of Life 21:14 The Future of Longevity and Accessibility Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the recent developments in AI leadership, particularly focusing on Sam Altman's 'code red' declaration regarding OpenAI's competition with Google. They explore the importance of experience in AI development, the frameworks that should guide AI companies, and the evolving expectations of users. The conversation delves into the distinctions between 'stupid', 'dumb', 'smart', and 'genius' AI, emphasizing the need for contextual understanding and anticipation in AI solutions. The episode concludes with thoughts on the future of AI personal assistants and the potential for a more integrated AI experience. Takeaways Experience is the key differentiator in AI competition. Frameworks like 'Stupid, Dumb, Smart, Genius' help understand AI evolution. Consumer expectations for AI are rapidly changing. AI must focus on contextual understanding to improve user experience. The distinction between smart and genius AI is crucial for development. AI hallucinations undermine user trust and effectiveness. Companies need to anticipate user needs for better AI solutions. Personal assistant AI must fulfill its promise to users. The future of AI lies in creating integrated, context-aware systems. Experience strategy is essential for navigating the AI landscape. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:26 AI Leadership and Experience Focus 06:22 Frameworks for AI and Experience Strategy 11:56 Understanding AI: Stupid, Dumb, Smart, Genius 19:24 The Future of AI and Personal Assistants Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
We experience the world through what we notice, how we feel, and what we remember. Yet most organizations still focus on products instead of the experiences those products create. Mat Duerden has spent his career studying how experiences work, why they matter, and what turns an ordinary moment into something meaningful or even transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss what makes an experience meaningful and how reflection deepens its impact. They look at how organizations can build experience playbooks that bring brand, culture, and design together into one coherent story.Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences and a researcher focused on how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative.In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss:- Why attention drives every experience- What makes experiences memorable, meaningful, or transformative?- What designers of work can learn from studying leisure- How core design principles travel across contexts- Why experiences should be orchestrated, not staged.- How hardship can make experiences more powerful- How shared experiences build connection- What Bach and river rafting have in common- How telling the story helps learning stick- And other topics…Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of the Experience Design and Management program at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His research examines how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative, with a focus on reflection, storytelling, and attention. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences, written with Bob Rossman, and teaches experience design across business, education, and leisure contexts. Prior to academia, Mat worked extensively in outdoor recreation and youth development, shaping his interest in how shared experiences create connection.Resources Mentioned:Designing Experiences, by Mat Duerden & Bob Rossman: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Experiences-Columbia-Business-Publishing/dp/0231191685 Nicomachean Ethics, by Aristotle: https://www.amazon.com/Nicomachean-Ethics-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449493 Experience Economy, by Joe Pine & James Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978Connect with Mat:Faculty Page: https://marriott.byu.edu/directory/details?id=5773 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mat-duerden-8740969/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.
On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with business thinker Joe Pine, the legendary co-author of "The Experience Economy," for an in-depth conversation about building a career around unique ideas. Joe Pine shares insights from his early days as a self-described nerd at IBM to his role in shaping the field of mass customization and ultimately designing a business that made him stand out as a category of one. The discussion moves fluidly from personal transformation to the sweeping changes he helped pioneer in business, and what it means to thrive as a creator capitalist in today's rapidly changing world. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Finding a Different Path: From Palo Alto to Publishing with Harvard Joe Pine's journey began in Palo Alto during the era of the Arpanet, with technology in his blood and a passion for applied mathematics. Pine joined IBM in 1980, at its peak as arguably the most desirable company for ambitious technologists. Despite a technical start, he found himself increasingly drawn to management, strategy, and the world of business ideas. His trajectory changed dramatically when IBM sent him to MIT for a master's in the management of technology. There, Pine encountered Stan Davis's concept of "mass customization" and felt a lightning bolt of inspiration. Deciding to turn his MIT thesis into a book, Pine landed a contract with Harvard Business School Press. The credential of publishing with Harvard, he notes, was a powerful stamp of intellectual rigor. As he recalls, “Harvard puts its stamp on it, says this is intellectually rigorous. This is a good book. This ought to be out in the world, and we want to publish it.” Joe Pine on Leaping from Employee to Icon, and Creating the Experience Economy With his first book in hand, Pine found himself at a crossroads. The culture at IBM was changing, and a timely severance package offered him a financial cushion to take a risk. Encouraged by thought leaders he admired, he struck out on his own. Initially, IBM remained his primary client, but Pine quickly built a reputation for leading-edge thinking and collaborating with other luminaries like Don Peppers and Jim Gilmore. The launch of "The Experience Economy" marked a turning point, not just for Pine, but for the business landscape itself. He didn't merely spot a trend or invent a new buzzword; he named and framed a fundamental shift in the economy's fabric. “We didn't identify a fad, but a fundamental change in the fabric of the economy. And if it is a change in the economy, then it is always going to go like that, right? Until something surpasses it and it starts to go down as happened with commodities and goods and services.” The central idea that businesses must stage memorable experiences to remain relevant only grew more compelling over time, with Pine's frameworks gaining more relevance as the digital age accelerated. Transformation and Identity in the Age of AI As the episode moves to the present, Pine discusses how transformation, both personal and organizational, is ultimately about changing identity. He credits much of his own success to an ability to recognize patterns and develop frameworks to describe and prescribe changes in business. Pine's recent work, including his Substack and newest book, explores not just customer experience but transformation itself, emphasizing that “all transformation is identity change.” The conversation turns to AI and the breaking waves of change it represents for businesses today, paralleling Pine's earlier identification of evolving economic eras. He sees transformation as most successful when companies or individuals are willing to fundamentally shift who they are, not just what they do. “The identity issues there are paramount because who you think you are often stops you from being able to do these things because it would change who you are so much.” Joe Pine believes that in the new world shaped by AI, those who can shed old identities and truly reinvent themselves—much as he did when he left IBM—will be the ones to define the next era. The lesson for aspiring creator capitalists is clear: the greatest value comes not only from unique ideas but also from the courage to turn those ideas into new identities, new categories, and new realities. To hear more from Joe Pine and how he built a business with his Intellectual Capital, download and listen to this episode. Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers. Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!
Two articles caught our attention. The first was in The Hollywood Reporter about a new movie theater concepts with private rooms and high end food in New York. The second was a story about the power of IMAX in the movie industry, per the Wall Street Journal. In this episode, Joe Pine, Aransas Savas, and Dave Norton discuss the evolving landscape of the movie theater experience, particularly in light of the pandemic's impact. They explore new concepts in Hollywood, such as premium movie theaters and IMAX, and how these innovations cater to changing consumer preferences. The conversation emphasizes the importance of customization, personalization, and the need for theaters to create engaging experiences that resonate with audiences. The hosts also provide valuable insights for experience strategists on how to adapt to these trends and enhance the overall consumer experience. Takeaways The pandemic significantly impacted the movie theater industry, leading to a decline in attendance. Premiumization is a key trend in the film industry, focusing on enhancing the overall experience. Customization and personalization are crucial for attracting audiences back to theaters. Consumers decide the 'when' or the situation, then watch the movie Theaters need to innovate and create engaging environments to compete with home viewing. Experience strategists should measure the money value of time (MVT) in their offerings. The integration of social components can enhance the movie-going experience. Chapters 01:23 Hollywood's New Movie Theater Concepts 02:38 The Impact of the Pandemic on Movie Theaters 04:47 Premiumization in the Film Industry 06:40 Customization and Personalization of Movie Experiences 08:57 Consumer Preferences Post-COVID 11:38 The Role of IMAX and Alternative Experiences 16:41 Innovations in the Theater Space 20:15 Key Takeaways for Experience Strategists Read More: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/inside-metro-private-cinema-tim-league-movie-theater-1236311204/ https://www.wsj.com/business/media/imax-movie-release-trend-6f4587a2?st=PKpj1G&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss an article from the Wall Street Journal about High Point University in North Carolina, which has become a magnet for wealthy students. They explore how the university's focus on creating transformational experiences and life skills prepares students for their future careers. The conversation also touches on the role of parents in educational choices, the future of higher education, and the need for universities to have a strong point of view on their purpose and offerings. Oh and listen to Aransas' assessement of Love Shack Fancy. Takeaways High Point University is setting a new trend in education. Transformational experiences are key to preparing students for careers. Parents play a crucial role in educational choices. The focus should be on life skills, not just degrees. Higher education needs to adapt to changing societal needs. Universities must understand their customer base. A degree should be seen as an output, not an outcome. Colleges need to differentiate themselves in a competitive market. Transformational offerings can attract students and parents alike. The future of education may involve more practical skills and less traditional degrees. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 00:39 High Point University: A New Blueprint for Education 05:19 Transformational Experiences in Higher Education 10:26 The Role of Parents in Educational Choices 12:46 Cultural Fit in College Selection 16:48 The Future of Higher Education 21:03 Experiential Retail: Lessons from Love Shack Fancy Read More: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/north-carolina-college-high-point-amenities-30b0fc14?mod=hp_lead_pos7 https://www.loveshackfancy.com Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
Most organizations think about the design of work in terms of products, services, or customer journeys. But Dave Norton has spent his career arguing that experience design goes much deeper. It is about shaping how people spend their time and, in some cases, their lives. In this episode, Dart talks to Dave about how experience design has evolved, why context matters more than personality, and how AI may finally make transformational design scalable.Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, an insights consultancy focused on helping companies create meaningful experiences for their customers and employees. A pioneer in experience strategy, he helps organizations across industries rethink the meaning of time, transformation, and context in design.In this episode, Dart and Dave discuss:- The evolution of experience design- Why context matters more than customer psychology- How to design time that is well saved, well spent, and well invested- Why transformation requires discomfort- The power of modes and modularity in designing for focus- How to design whole offerings that get the “whole job” done- Why AI could help scale transformational design- And other topics…Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, the experience strategy firm built on the belief that meaningful work is less about what you sell and more about how people spend their time. He began working with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, in the early 2000s and in 2005 launched Stone Mantel to help organizations design experiences that are “time well spent.” Over the years, he has guided clients across industries, including healthcare, banking, and hospitality, shifting the focus from features to whole offerings and from channels to moments.Resources Mentioned:Stone Mantle: https://www.stonemantel.co/ The Experience Strategist (Substack): https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/ The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customers-Service/dp/1422161978Connect with Dave:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davenortonphd/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss PwC's recent report on growth through experience. They explore the evolving definitions of customer experience, emphasizing the importance of trust and meaningful interactions. The conversation delves into PwC's four dimensions of exceptional experiences: coherence, personalization, engagement, and distinctiveness. The hosts critique traditional measurement methods in customer experience, advocating for a focus on meaningful experiences rather than mere service delivery. They also discuss the significance of managing moments of frustration and the concept of modes in customer journeys, concluding with insights from case studies in various industries. Takeaways Customer experience is fragile and requires trust. Meaningful experiences drive customer loyalty. Seamlessness is the baseline, not a value add. Exceptional experiences are defined by PwC as coherence, personalization, engagement, and distinctiveness. Measurement should focus on meaning, not just metrics. Managing frustration can create deeper customer relationships. Modes influence how customers interact with experiences. Retail must embrace experiential strategies to thrive. Trust is a predictor of growth in customer experience. The shift towards experience as a business strategy is gaining traction. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 02:17 Understanding Customer Experience and Trust 05:21 Defining Exceptional Experiences 09:41 The Importance of Measurement in Experience 12:10 Rethinking Value Creation and Trust 13:57 Managing Moments of Frustration 16:43 Modes and Their Impact on Experience 17:09 Case Studies in Exceptional Experiences 19:30 Conclusion and Future Insights Read More: https://www.pwcresearch.com/uc/images/GrowthThroughExperience_2025.pdf Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss their recent experiences at the Arival Conference and The Collaboratives, focusing on the evolving landscape of travel experiences and the impact of AI on search and social proof. They emphasize the importance of human connection in the age of AI, the significance of time well spent, and the necessity for companies to have a distinct point of view to thrive in a competitive market. Takeaways AI searches are five times longer than traditional searches. Web crawlers for AI tools are limited and slow. Search can be considered an experience in itself. The importance of social proof is increasing in search results. Human connection is essential in the age of AI. A good tour guide can significantly enhance the experience. Companies must have a unique point of view to survive. The concept of time well spent is crucial for success. Sameness in offerings will be a challenge for businesses. Continuous learning and adaptation are vital for experience strategists. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:29 Insights from the Arrival Conference 05:50 The Impact of AI on Search and Experience 12:11 The Importance of Human Connection 19:00 Time Well Spent: A New Perspective 23:18 Conclusion and Future Directions Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
Adweek just did a write up on Uber's new ad campaign and we found reasons to concur with the article and take what Uber is doing farther. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aranzas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Uber's new advertising campaign, focusing on its storytelling approach and the importance of experiences in marketing. They explore how Uber positions itself as a service that enables meaningful experiences, the emotional, social, and systemic jobs it could fulfill, and the broader implications for brands in commoditized industries. The conversation also delves into the significance of modes and situations in user experience, and how universal storytelling can resonate with diverse audiences. Takeaways Uber's new campaign emphasizes storytelling over traditional advertising. Experiences are crucial for differentiation in a commoditized market. Uber positions itself as an enabler of meaningful experiences. The campaign highlights reliability and dependability as key selling points. Emotional and social jobs are opportunity areas for Uber experiences. The storytelling is both universal and situational--and Tiktokky Modes and situations play a significant role in Uber experiences. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Uber's New Campaign 01:40 The Power of Storytelling in Advertising 04:00 Experiences as Differentiation in Marketing 07:28 The Role of Uber in Enabling Experiences 09:47 Promises and Expectations in Service 12:06 Social and Emotional Jobs of Uber 13:47 Aspirational and Systemic Jobs to Be Done 16:35 Modes and Situations in User Experience 20:17 Universal Storytelling in Advertising 22:24 Conclusion and Future Discussions Read more https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/uber-drives-home-the-power-of-showing-up-in-new-on-our-way-ad/ Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
Lil' Miquela and Mia Zelu have millions of followers and generate serious income, despite being created with artificial intelligence. A recent article in the NY Times caught our attention and we just had to weigh in on how AI influencers are changing the way customers think about what they can trust. In this episode of the Experience Strategy podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the intriguing world of AI influencers, exploring their rise, the complexities of trust and authenticity in the digital age, and the implications for the future of influencer experiences. They discuss the evolving nature of social proof, the role of empathy in AI, and how brands can navigate the changing landscape of consumer relationships. The conversation highlights the need for transparency and authenticity in experience strategies, as well as the potential shift towards hyperlocal influencers. Takeaways AI influencers are gaining popularity and generating significant income. Parasocial relationships with AI are becoming more common. Trust in AI influencers is complex and multifaceted. Authenticity is increasingly important in the digital age. Social proof is being redefined in the context of AI. The role of empathy in AI is a contentious topic. Brands need to be transparent about AI-generated content. Micro-influencers may become more valuable than traditional influencers. Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective marketing. The future of AI and human relationships is uncertain and thought-provoking. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to AI Influencers 02:44 The Rise of AI Personalities 05:54 Trust and Authenticity in AI 08:53 The Evolution of Social Proof 11:53 AI and Empathy: A Complex Relationship 14:48 The Role of Brands and Influencers 17:47 Lessons for Experience Strategists 20:46 The Future of AI Storytelling 23:43 Conclusion and Reflections Read more https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/03/style/ai-influencers-lil-miquela-mia-zelu.html Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In The New York Times article written by Daniel Currell, the author/consultant contents that Disney's tiered system is designed to target affluent guests, not middle class people. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss the article about Disney's transformation from an egalitarian experience to a tiered system. They explore the implications of this shift on the middle class, the increasing value placed on experiences, and the desire for connection among visitors. The conversation delves into the role of services, time value, and the exclusivity of certain experiences, ultimately addressing the future of Disney and its expansion opportunities. This episode is brought to you by The Cargo Agency and Feedback Now. Takeaways Disney has shifted from an egalitarian mindset to a tiered system. The value of experiences has increased significantly over the years. Wealth impacts the amount of time one can spend enjoying experiences. Visitors seek connective experiences with loved ones. Services play a crucial role in enhancing the overall experience. Having multiple channels is a key strategy for growth. Club 33 represents the only exclusive experience in the park. Time is a critical currency in the experience economy. Disney's pricing strategy reflects the value of experiences. The future of Disney may involve expansion and innovation. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 00:26 Disney's Shift from Egalitarianism 01:44 The Value of Experience and Pricing 05:21 The Impact of Wealth on Experience 06:47 The Desire for Connection in Experiences 09:54 The Role of Services in Enhancing Experiences 12:03 Gamification and the Disney Ecosystem 15:47 The Exclusivity of Club 33 18:03 Time as a Currency in Experiences 21:18 The Future of Disney and Expansion Ideas Read more https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/opinion/disney-world-economy-middle-class-rich.html?unlocked_article_code=1.iU8.Yl9x.HdJppkkpqYcr&smid=url-share Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In an August 14th Vogue Business article by Madeleine Schultz , Saks Global, the parent company of Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus and Bergdorf Goodman, discussed its personalisation strategy and an investment of $600 million for it's new platform. The only problem is: based on the article, we think they got it wrong. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the evolving landscape of personalization in retail, particularly focusing on Saks Global's new strategies. They discuss the importance of understanding customer modes, the role of contextual data, and the challenges faced by traditional personalization approaches. The conversation highlights the need for brands to meet customers where they are, especially in the age of social shopping, and emphasizes the integration of online and offline experiences to enhance customer engagement. This episode is brought to you by The Cargo Agency and Feedback Now. Takeaways Personalization is a form of customization for individuals. Saks has invested heavily in personalization strategies. Modes thinking is crucial for effective personalization. Contextual data is essential for understanding customer needs. Traditional personalization approaches may feel outdated. Social shopping is a growing trend in retail. Brands must meet customers where they are online. Integration of online and offline experiences is key. Personalization should not just be about demographics. The future of retail lies in innovative and brave strategies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Personalization in Retail 02:57 Exploring Hyper-Personalization Strategies 05:55 The Importance of Context in Personalization 09:05 The Role of AI and Machine Learning 11:57 Challenges of Traditional Retail Personalization 14:49 The Shift Towards Social Shopping 17:45 Integrating Online and Offline Experiences 20:48 Future Directions for Retail Personalization Read more https://www.voguebusiness.com/story/consumers/inside-saks-globals-personalisation-strategy?utm_source=chatgpt.com Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a recent episode of the Diary of a CEO featuring Mo Gawdot, who predicts a dystopian future driven by technology and AI. The conversation explores themes of transformation, the value of work, and the implications of AI on jobs and society. The hosts critique Mo Gawdot's techno-extremism and emphasize the importance of hope and purpose in navigating the future. Using insights from The Experience Economy, from Experience Strategy, and human behavior, they argue for a bright future for those focused on customer's needs and desires Takeaways Mo Gawdot predicts a 15-year dystopia followed by a utopia. Critique of techno extremism highlights the need for balance. Transformation is key to the future economy. Work provides purpose and meaning to individuals. AI will create new jobs, not eliminate them. Gawdot argues against hope and against innovation Embracing AI is crucial for future success. People are resources that drive innovation. Experience strategists need to develop a strategic point of view to thrive in the future Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:26 Mo Gawdot's Dystopian Predictions 02:54 Critique of Techno-Extremism 05:19 Transformation vs. Dystopia 10:24 The Role of Work in Human Dignity 14:41 AI and the Future of Work 18:59 Hope and Transformation 22:55 The Last Mile Issue in Automation 25:02 Future Skills for Experience Strategists Read more https://open.substack.com/pub/theexperiencestrategist/p/the-future-is-uncertain-and-bright?r=257bs3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false Podcast Sponsor: Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
This episode builds on Dave Norton's article on Substack about Kate King's report in the Wall Street Journal: Can the French Reinvent America's Broken Department Store Model. Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the evolving landscape of retail, particularly focusing on the experiential model as exemplified by the French department store Printemps. They explore the differences between traditional American department stores and European models, emphasizing the importance of creating engaging experiences that encourage customers to linger. The conversation also touches on metrics for measuring success in experiential retail and highlights case studies like La Varia Leo bookstore, while critiquing Macy's for missing opportunities to connect with consumers. Takeaways The American department store model is in decline. Experiential retail focuses on creating reasons for customers to stay. Time spent in a retail space correlates with increased sales. European department stores are thriving by offering immersive experiences. Retailers need to shift from product staging to experience staging. Metrics for success should include time well spent and revenue increases. Charging for experiences can turn marketing into a profit center. La Varia Leo bookstore successfully monetized its experience. Macy's has not adapted to the experiential retail trend. Retailers must innovate to compete with online shopping. Sound bites "It's about time well spent." "You want to hang out there." "Macy's has done none of this." Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 02:46 The European Retail Experience 11:30 Transformative Retail Experiences 19:58 Metrics for Success in Retail 23:35 The Future of Retail Experiences Read more https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/commercial/can-the-french-reinvent-americas-broken-department-store-model-ff719a4a?st=9K6WB8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/p/america-looks-to-europe-to-reinvigorate Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the economic power of experience strategy in various industries, focusing on an article in the Wall Street Journal on the Atlanta Braves and their innovative approach to sports business through the Battery Atlanta. They explore the concept of Disneyfication, where businesses create holistic experiences that enhance customer engagement and economic impact. The conversation also delves into the potential for reimagining healthcare facilities as experience-driven environments, emphasizing the interconnectedness of experiences, goods, and services in today's economy. Takeaways The Atlanta Braves have revolutionized the sports business model through experience strategy. Experience economy prioritizes experiences over goods and services. The Battery Atlanta serves as a model for mixed-use development. Sports venues can act as anchors for surrounding retail and experiences. Disneyfication is a viable strategy for various industries. Healthcare can be transformed into experience-driven environments. Cities can become experience hubs to attract tourism and business. The economic impact of sports venues extends beyond ticket sales. Creating holistic experiences can lead to community engagement and economic growth. The experience economy is reshaping consumer preferences and business strategies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy Podcast 02:11 The Atlanta Braves: A Case Study in Experience Strategy 12:47 Disneyfication: Transforming Industries through Experience 15:14 Reimagining Healthcare and Other Industries: The Disneyfication of Everything 20:31 The Interconnectedness of Experiences, Goods, and Services Read More: https://www.wsj.com/sports/baseball/truist-park-battery-atlanta-a3698b69?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1 Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this powerful conversation, Michael D. Levitt and branding expert Barry LaBov explore the critical role of differentiation in today's hyper-competitive and fast-moving business world. It's not about being the biggest or best in every category—it's about being unmistakably you. The Human Edge of Differentiation Barry opens with a compelling take: while modern tools have made producing fast, mediocre content easier, what sets brands apart today is authenticity and humanity. He warns that failing to stand out leads to commoditization, lower profits, and disengaged teams. The takeaway? Know what makes you unique—and amplify it with intention. Purpose Starts with "Who Are We?" Michael shares a story from a nonprofit healthcare board meeting where a simple but profound question was raised: “Who are we?” That moment sparked a conversation about alignment, identity, and clarity. He reminds leaders to pause regularly, assess direction, and stay grounded in purpose. Barry echoes this, referencing Simon Sinek's “Start With Why,” but adds: you also need to clearly explain what you do and how it fulfills that purpose. Belief Begins Within Barry shifts the focus inward, discussing how employee belief in a company's mission and differentiation directly impacts its longevity—citing that 16 of 17 startups fail within 10 years. His latest book, written during the COVID-era resignation wave, focuses on helping companies win hearts and minds through internal and external clarity. Real-world stories and practical frameworks help teams rediscover what makes them special. Small Shifts, Big Impact Michael dives into adaptability with a brilliant metaphor: changing the lighting in a room can completely alter its feel without replacing the furniture. In the same way, businesses often need thoughtful tweaks—not complete reinventions. He also addresses current workplace trends—like post-2021 turnover and return-to-office debates—urging leaders to listen to their people and lead with empathy and internal communication. Say It Like You Mean It Wrapping up, Barry and Michael discuss how language shapes culture. Self-deprecating phrases like “best kept secret” can quietly undermine confidence inside and outside the organization. Instead, leaders should communicate honestly and boldly about their value—without veering into ego. Michael even mentions recommending Barry's book to a client struggling with this exact challenge. Key Takeaways: True differentiation stems from authenticity, not superiority. Purpose is revealed by asking the hard questions—internally and externally. Your team must believe in what sets your organization apart. Minor shifts in leadership and culture can produce major results. How you describe your business matters—internally and externally.
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the intersection of aging and technology, particularly focusing on how technology can be designed to support cognitive health as we age. They reflect on a personal article by Robert Fabricant in Fast Company that challenges the current approach to technology for the aging population, advocating for ambient adaptive technology that promotes dignity and agency. The conversation explores the need for AI design that accommodates cognitive decline, the importance of contextual awareness in technology, and the potential for transformational technology to enhance the quality of life for older adults. This podcast is brought to by Feedback Now, the world's best solution for real-time feedback. Takeaways: AI Technology should be designed for aging well. Cognitive decline requires specific support. Adaptive technology can enhance dignity in aging. Ideally AI should passively support people in cognitive decline Contextual awareness can improve how people engage with tool. Designing for accessibility benefits everyone. Transformational technology can maintain cognitive function. Data can empower users to understand their health better. The future of technology lies in integration with life systems. Chapters” 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:17 Reflections on Aging and Technology 04:12 The Role of Adaptive Technology 12:03 Contextual Experience Design 15:52 Superpowers and Cognitive Support 20:39 The Future of Health Technology 23:54 Designing for Resilience vs. Performance Read More: https://www.fastcompany.com/91350804/why-im-wishing-for-different-technology-on-fathers-day Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Airbnb's recent rebranding and its shift from a focus solely on home bookings to a more holistic approach that includes services and experiences. They explore the implications of this transformation for the travel industry, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, operational platforms, and the experience economy. The conversation highlights the potential for Airbnb to create unique, transformative travel experiences that resonate with customers' desires for connection and personal growth. Takeaways Airbnb is evolving from just home bookings to offering services and experiences. Transformative travel is about creating lasting changes in identity and aspirations. Airbnb's operational platform can help travelers manage their entire itinerary. Authenticity in travel experiences is key to perceived value. Experience stacking allows for unique offerings that enhance customer engagement. The shift from a sharing economy to an experience economy is crucial for value creation. Vetting experiences builds trust and enhances customer satisfaction. Airbnb's community aspect deepens the travel experience. The future of travel will focus on personalized and bespoke experiences. Airbnb's approach could raise the standard for the entire travel industry. Chapters 00:00 The Evolution of Airbnb: A New Era in Travel 03:24 Transformative Experiences: Beyond Just Stays 06:16 Operational Platforms: The Future of Travel Itineraries 09:12 Authenticity in Travel: The Airbnb Advantage 14:50 The Shift from Sharing to Experience Economy 17:33 Creating Value Through Experiences 20:34 The Role of Trust and Vetting in In Destination Experiences 23:27 The Future of Airbnb and the Experience Economy Read More: https://news.airbnb.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: The Experience Strategist A newsletter about creating value for customers, employees, and companies. By Dave Norton
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine discuss fashion group Zara's innovative travel mode, which allows users to shop for products while traveling. They explore the concept of 'modes'—temporary mindsets and behaviors that influence customer experiences—and how Zara's travel mode can enhance customer engagement. The conversation delves into the importance of context, opportunities for improvement, and the potential for community building through social media. The hosts emphasize the dynamic nature of modes and the need for behavioral science to further explore this concept. Takeaways Zara's travel mode allows shopping while traveling. Modes are temporary mindsets that influence behavior. Travel mode operates without internet access, enhancing usability. Anticipating customer context is crucial for effective modes. Supporting customer modes can create more buying opportunities. Zara's travel mode is a key conversion strategy. Leveraging community and social media can enhance customer experience. Zara should focus on its strengths in fashion. Behavioral science should study modes more extensively. The dynamic nature of modes offers opportunities for brands. Chapters 00:00Exploring Zara's Travel Mode Initiative 06:01Understanding Human Modes vs. Technology Modes 08:45The Importance of Context in Customer Experience 14:49Evaluating the Effectiveness of Zara's App Features 17:43Leveraging Community and Social Media for Engagement 20:47The Role of Behavioral Science in Understanding Modes 26:46Future Directions and Listener Engagement
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a Wall Street Journal article written by Jennifer Williams about retail, focusing on how major brands are intentionally slowing down the shopping experience to enhance customer engagement. They explore the importance of creating meaningful experiences, the lessons learned from Toys R Us, and the need for authenticity in retail strategies. The conversation emphasizes measuring success beyond traditional sales metrics and highlights the future of experience-led brands. Takeaways The longer someone spends in a store, the more likely they are to convert into a purchaser. Retailers are adding experiences to encourage customers to linger longer. Time well spent is a key concept in enhancing customer experience. Experiences must be meaningful and relevant to the brand. Toys R Us failed to create relevant experiences for their target audience. Lego gets it. Camp.com gets it. Retail success should be measured by time value, not just sales per square foot. Authenticity in brand experiences is crucial for customer loyalty. Walmart is evolving to compete with experiential brands. Experience-led brands can charge for their unique offerings. Read More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shop-slow-spend-more-the-retailers-hoping-that-customers-linger-0c87ea24?st=etbsMd&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://camp.com Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Tony Bates article in Fortune Magazine on the intersection of empathy, AI, and customer experience. They explore how empathy is often seen as a critical component in business interactions, especially in the context of AI's role in enhancing customer service. The conversation delves into the nuances of sympathy versus empathy, the importance of emotional jobs in customer interactions, and the need for businesses to differentiate themselves through human elements in an increasingly automated world. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:50 The Role of Empathy in AI and Business 06:43 Sympathy vs. Empathy in Customer Experience 12:12 Emotional Jobs and AI's Role 14:55 Human Element as a Differentiator 20:56 The Future of AI and Experience Strategy Read more here: https://fortune.com/article/ai-empathy-business-customer-loyalty-tech/?utm_source=search&utm_medium=suggested_search&utm_campaign=search_link_clicks Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com
© 2020-2026 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
