Podcast appearances and mentions of joe pine

The Experience Strategy Podcast | substack.theexperiencestrategist.com A post on X went viral — 38,000 reshares, 83 million reads. Written by respected AI voice Matt Schumer, it opens with a gut-punch analogy: think back to February 2020. Most of us weren't paying attention to a virus spreading overseas. Then in three weeks, everything changed. Schumer's argument is that we are in a similar "this seems overblown" phase right now — except what's coming is bigger than COVID. Dave, Joe, and Aransas dig into the article, push back where it's overblown, and land on what experience strategists actually need to do about it. What's in This Episode The article's core argument. AI isn't just getting better — it's getting faster, more capable at complex tasks, and increasingly independent of human involvement. The latest models are now building and debugging the next version of themselves. Schumer's point: no matter how complex or human your job feels, it's getting closer to AI's reach by the millisecond, not the minute. What Schumer says to do about it — and the team's reaction: Use AI seriously. Don't dabble. Understand what it can actually do. Get your financial house in order. This isn't the time to be overextended. Lean into what's hardest to replace. Anything you do primarily on a screen is likely a 1–2 year exposure. Rethink what you're telling your kids. Their dreams just got closer — and the path there looks different. Get in the habit of adapting now, not when you're forced to. Joe's take: good prescription, overblown description. AI is a tool, and no technology in history has eliminated more jobs than it created. The real question is mindset: executives who come to AI asking "how do I automate people out?" will find exactly that. Executives who ask "how do I augment my people?" will find something much more powerful in the human-plus-AI combination. The disruption, as with all disruptive innovation, starts at the bottom of the value chain and moves up — which means you need to be working above it. The echo chamber problem. Joe raises a concern that's already documented: AI increasingly trains on AI output, creating what researchers are calling model collapse — a cyclical echo chamber where biases get replicated and amplified rather than corrected. The telephone game at civilizational scale. Aransas connects this to the show Pluribus, which she found boring as a narrative but compelling as a metaphor for hive-mind homogenization. What experience strategists specifically need right now — three points from Dave: Provenance. As AI commoditizes outputs, original sources become more valuable, not less. If you're building consumer insights without actually talking to consumers, you're already three steps from provenance. The strategists who can signal authentic, original sourcing will be disproportionately valuable. Cross-disciplinary thinking. Experience strategists have been operating too narrowly — personas, journey maps, CX mechanics. AI gives you superpowers across marketing, planning, and adjacent disciplines. Use them. Going deeper on the same narrow lane is the wrong direction. A strategic point of view. Not an opinion. A point of view. The difference: a POV is grounded in a real perspective on where things are headed and what companies should do about it. Joe's Transformation Economy is the model. Right now, the most defensible experience POV is transformation — because transformation is the economic offering most deeply dependent on human expertise, authentic relationships, and the kind of curated AI deployment that actually requires strategic judgment. The era of typos and texture. Aransas's 15-year-old put it well: right now, the most human signal is imperfection. Messy feelings, quirky punctuation, genuine awkwardness — these are becoming markers of authenticity in a world of smoothed-out AI output. The demand for what feels genuinely human is rising alongside the supply of what doesn't. Key Quotes "Knowledge work has changed forever. That is going to be a rough adjustment for all of us — and all experience strategists are knowledge workers." — Dave Norton "If you come with the mindset of how can I get rid of people, you'll find ways to get rid of people. But if you come with a mindset of how this augments my people's skills and makes them better — you'll be amazed at what human plus AI can do." — Joe Pine "Provenance is going to become more and more important. The inputs have to be better. Original data, original source — how do you get to that?" — Dave Norton "The most defensible experience point of view you can have right now is probably transformation — because it's the one built on technology and human expertise together." — Aransas Savas "This isn't a sit-on-our-hands-and-wait situation. This is a get-engaged situation." — Aransas Savas Referenced "Something Big Is Happening" by Matt Schumer — [https://x.com/mattshumer_/status/2021256989876109403] The Transformation Economy by B. Joseph Pine II — available now wherever books are sold Anthropic CEO quote: "AI will be substantially smarter than almost all humans at almost all tasks by 2026 or 2027." The Experience Strategy Podcast is hosted by Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine. Subscribe at substack.theexperiencestrategist.com.  

In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Ray Hole of Ray Hole Architects for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation about strategy, storytelling and the true economics of experience design. Key Topics Discussed The “Camelot” collaboration model in attraction development Experience economy vs. pure economics Primacy and recency effects in guest psychology Designing the departure experience Turning operational cost into experiential value Storytelling through architecture Instagrammable design and generational behaviour Empathy in ticketing and security Integrating accommodation into attraction strategy Converting capex into revenue-generating experiences   Show References:   Ray Hole, Managing Director of Ray Hole Architects https://www.rayhole-architects.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-hole-a6b7396/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey.   Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

As AI automates compliance, value shifts to measurable outcomes and client aspirations.Full show notes hereGear Up for GrowthWith Jean CaragherFor CPA TrendlinesAuthor and strategist B. Joseph Pine II urges accounting firm leaders to confront a fundamental question: What business are you really in?MORE Jean Caragher here | Get her best-selling handbook, The 90-Day Marketing Plan for CPA Firms, here | MORE Gear Up for Growth | MORE CPA Trendlines videos and podcasts hereAccording to Pine, the profession is approaching a critical inflection point as the global economy moves beyond goods, services, and even experiences, into what he calls the transformation economy.“You use experiences as a raw material to guide people to change, to help them achieve their aspirations,” Pine tells Gear Up for Growth host Jean Caragher, president of Capstone Marketing. This shift, he explains, requires firms to move beyond simply delivering accounting work efficiently to helping clients achieve meaningful, measurable change.Gear Up For Growth Ep 58 - Joe Pine

This episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different reunites us with the renowned business thinker Joe Pine, whose work on the experience economy transformed how organizations define value. We join Christopher and Joe in tracing the progression from products and services to experiences, and now to transformations, where companies move beyond creating memorable moments to helping people achieve meaningful change. Through examples, definitions, and personal stories, they clarify what distinguishes an experience, why it has become central to modern economies, and how the emerging transformation economy repositions businesses as guides in their customers' journeys toward their aspirations. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Joe Pine on the Experience Economy and Changing Consumer Priorities Lochhead reflects on how Pine's book The Experience Economy revealed experiences as a distinct economic offering, separate from commodities, goods, and services. Pine defines experiences as events in which companies use goods as props and services as the stage to personally engage people and create lasting memories. They note how brands such as Starbucks intuitively staged experiences long before the concept had formal language. Today, cultural trends and research show that consumers, especially younger generations, increasingly value experiences over material possessions. Rather than accumulating things, people seek moments that feel meaningful, enjoyable, and worth remembering and sharing. Joe Pine on how Experiences Function in B2B Contexts Pine and Lochhead argue that experiences are just as critical in B2B environments as they are in consumer markets. Pine explains that the experience itself has become the most powerful form of marketing, because it earns attention, builds trust, and generates demand. They describe executive briefing centers, innovation hubs, and destination events where clients are welcomed into carefully designed environments that educate and inspire. Lochhead recalls building a Customer Welcome Center at Mercury Interactive and orchestrating every detail, from airport pickup to on-site interactions, as one cohesive journey. This stands in sharp contrast to traditional advertising, which is often fleeting and easily forgotten. From Experiences to Transformations The discussion culminates in Pine's concept of the transformation economy, introduced in his book The Transformation Economy. Transformations represent the next stage, where customers are no longer asking for moments to enjoy but for help becoming who they want to be. While experiences focus on time well spent, transformations emphasize time well invested. Joe Pine introduces the idea of encapsulation, which includes preparation before an experience, reflection afterward, and integration over time to sustain real change. Together, he and Lochhead connect this to their own work, designing not just books, but ecosystems of courses, communities, tools, and future technologies intended to guide lasting personal and professional growth. To hear more from Joe Pine about the Transformation Economy, download and listen to this episode. Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers. Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Joe Pine is an internationally recognized author, speaker, and advisor, best known for The Experience Economy and his latest work, The Transformation Economy. In this episode, Joe explains why the market is finally ready—25 years later—for the shift to the transformation economy. He walks through the evolution of economic value, from commodities to goods, services, experiences, and now transformations, and makes the case that businesses must stop charging for inputs and start charging for outcomes. Joe introduces the four spheres of transformation—Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and argues that the true role of business is human flourishing: helping people become who they're meant to be. Profit isn't the goal; it's the scorecard. We also explore "encapsulation"—preparation, reflection, and integration—and why it's the key to turning experiences into lasting change. Joe breaks down why outcomes-based pricing is both the hardest shift and the biggest opportunity for transformation-driven companies. In this conversation, you'll learn how to spot transformation opportunities in your business, move beyond time-based pricing, and align what you charge with what customers actually value. Find episode 499 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joe Pine on You're Charging for the Wrong Thing with Joe Pine https://bit.ly/TLP-499 Key Takeaways [04:04] Joe explains why the world is finally ready for the transformation economy after 25 years of people asking when he'd write this book. [09:11] The four spheres of transformation: Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and why almost every business can find themselves in at least one. [12:59] The difference between fitness centers (charging for time as an experience) versus personal trainers (instilling discipline for transformation). [17:42] Why companies must eventually align what they charge for with what customers value—and how this drives the shift to outcomes-based pricing. [22:09] Joe introduces "invitational transformations"—experiences that invite people to transform their identity (like the Guinness Storehouse or Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library). [26:38] Human flourishing defined: the extent to which people are who they're meant to be. This is the raison d'être of business. [34:09] The concept of encapsulation: Preparation (before the experience), Reflection (after), and Integration (ongoing)—the framework that turns experiences into transformations. [35:59] How Joe wrote the book on Substack, getting real-time feedback from subscribers that fundamentally changed key frameworks in the book. [44:18] Joe's vision for transformation businesses: charge for demonstrated outcomes, foster human flourishing, and recognize that profits measure how well you help people flourish—not the end goal itself. [46:46] And remember..."The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic. Transformation begins with a change in mindset." — Peter Drucker Quotable Quotes "You are what you charge for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for demonstrated outcomes that your customers achieve, you're in the transformation business." "Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value. Let me say it again: Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value." "Fostering human flourishing is the raison d'être of business, period. That's why business exists—to help people flourish." "Human flourishing is the extent to which people are who they're meant to be." "The irony is of course that you may be offering a transformation guarantee, but that's exactly what you can't actually do. You can't guarantee a transformation. However, the best way to get it to happen is to offer a guarantee." "Profits are never the end. They're always the measurement by which you achieve the ends of human flourishing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Joe Pine Website | www.strategichorizons.com Joe Pine X | @joepine Joe Pine LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joepine TLP004: Joe Pine - Visionary Leadership Instilling Purpose

Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.Chapters(00:00) - Welcome and Introduction (00:26) - Discussing the Experience Economy (00:43) - Introducing the Transformation Economy (01:26) - Understanding Transformations and Aspirations (04:15) - Frameworks for Identity Change (07:09) - Real-Life Examples of Transformations (13:27) - Pricing Transformations and Value (18:01) - Guaranteeing Transformations (22:52) - Navigating Client Relationships (23:08) - The Power of Commitment (23:58) - Value-Based Pricing (25:01) - The Turnaround King (26:15) - Maintaining Progress and Overcoming Setbacks (28:13) - Commitment to the Process (29:41) - Measuring Success and Transformation (36:51) - Creating a Sustainable Business Model (37:20) - Book Launch and Writing Process (42:05) - Conclusion and Resources Joe's BioB. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.Related LinksJoe's website » strategichorizons.comJoe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiencesJoe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

In this episode, Rory speaks with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the new book The Transformation Economy, about the progression of economic value and why financial professionals are uniquely positioned to guide lasting change. Joe explains how we've moved from commodities to goods, services, and experiences and now into the Transformation Economy, where the true value lies in helping clients achieve their aspirations across health, wealth, wisdom, and purpose. He introduces the concept of the “aspirant,” explores why all transformation is identity change, and shares how preparation, reflection, and integration can turn ordinary client interactions into meaningful breakthroughs. They discuss why charging for outcomes aligns incentives, how AI can augment coaching, and why the future of advice is about guiding human flourishing, not just delivering a product or service. Want to know how to design client journeys that move beyond experiences and into true transformation? Curious how to become the guide to a clients' hero's journeys? Find out the answers to these questions and more in this forward-looking conversation with Joe Pine.

Oli Raison, co-founder of Safarini Leadership, designs immersive leadership expeditions in Kenya that combine cultural exchange with Samburu elders, wilderness trekking, and deep reflective coaching. In this conversation, Oli challenges one of leadership's most entrenched assumptions: that resilience is about individual grit and mental toughness. Drawing on the Samburu concept of naboisho—interdependence—he shows how real resilience is built through collective support, not solo endurance. He also names the single most important question leaders need to ask when entering any new culture or organization: What assumptions am I making? The catch? Most assumptions are invisible to us because they feel like "normal." Oli also explores why many wilderness and offsite leadership experiences fail to create lasting change, and shares his solution: a three-phase transformation framework—preparation, immersion, and integration—shaped by the work of past podcast guest, Joe Pine. This episode is an invitation to question your cultural defaults, rebuild genuine human connection, and develop a healthier relationship with time—so your leadership, and your team's resilience, can actually endure. Find episode 498 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Oli Raison on Why Grit Isn't Enough: Rethinking Resilience in Leadership https://bit.ly/TLP-498 Key Takeaways [04:12] Oli says the leadership assumption consistently dismantled his resilience—the Samburu are resilient through interdependence called "naboisho," not grit. [07:00] Oli identifies profound learning as the importance of having a shared sense of purpose and a very strong shared set of values. [08:31] Oli responds that people have very different expectations of leadership in different cultures around the world. [10:11] Oli reveals the Samburu doesn't have words for anxiety or depression and you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide. Oli notes loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. [12:00] Oli responds I think too much comfort can be a bad thing and people get discombobulated easily if things don't go quite to plan. [14:35] Oli answers the critical question leaders should ask: what assumptions am I making? Because we don't realize we're making assumptions. [17:07] Oli explains African societies have a fundamentally different understanding of time where there's always enough time. [20:10] Oli explains the Samburu are very spiritual people connected with their ancestors and you're also connected with your descendants. [22:30] Oli says mindset adjustment happens organically from just being offline during 10-day expeditions with six days of camel-supported trekking. [24:53] Oli describes their three-phase structure: preparation, immersion, and integration with coaching sessions at two, four, and six weeks after. [29:20] Oli responds his long-term impact is about flourishing, particularly helping men dealing with anxiety, depression, and suicidality. [31:43] Oli states his aspiration: how can we create workplaces, organizations and teams that flourish? Because that's when people really do their best work. [33:45] Jan shares his realization about keeping fingers on the keyboard versus closing the laptop because the most important thing is that person in front of you. [35:56] And remember..."One way to get the most out of life is to look upon it as an adventure." - William Feather Quotable Quotes "The Samburu, what makes them so resilient is this concept of interdependence, this reliance, this collective reliance on one another...if my cattle get wiped out because of a really challenging drought, I know that my neighbors are going to step in and they're going to give me some of their cattle." "Naboisho is a word in their language which kind of roughly translates to coming together or unity. And they often say things like 'we are because they are,' that we are all sort of in this together." "This is a society that doesn't have words for anxiety or depression. And you'll certainly never meet somebody who knows somebody who committed suicide...loneliness is now as damaging for your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day." "In the west, we think of time as a commodity. We think of time as something that can be saved, it can be wasted, it can be lost. And as a result of that, I feel that time is the master of us and we are not the master of time." "The Samburu always say there's always enough time because they don't think of time as this continuous thing...time occurs when events happen, it's more relational and it's more eventful." "What assumptions am I making? And this is tricky, right, because a lot of the time we don't realize we're making assumptions." "We don't need to be experts, but we do need to be detectives...what assumptions am I making that might be getting in my way?" "All of this technology is actually causing our brains to operate on a frequency that is not conducive with creative thought at all. And by being in nature, just that alone creates an environment for people to have some really powerful insights." "I think one of the things that people come away with is I really need to take more time out to just contemplate and to think. You know, think about your business, think about your life. We don't take time to think anymore. We're just reacting." "This obsession with hyper productivity is actually just, again, it's all distraction, you know, it's taking us away from just being with ourselves in the moment or being with somebody else." "In 1990, the average man had five close friends and now he has one...every minute that we spend on a device, on a phone, on a laptop, thinking that we're connecting is a minute that we're not spending really connecting with somebody." Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Oli Raison LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/oli-raison-1107aa11/ Safarini Leadership Website | www.safarinileadership.com Safarini Leadership LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/company/safarini-leadership Safarini Leadership Instagram | @safarinileadership

Businesses don't win by selling more features or even better experiences anymore. In this episode, Joe Pine explains why the real value today comes from selling outcomes and guiding customers toward meaningful transformation. We unpack the transformation economy, how it differs from the experience economy, and why charging for outcomes changes pricing, guarantees, and business models. You will learn how both B2B and B2C companies can productize transformation, align messaging with real results, and help customers become who they want to be. Today we discussed: 00:00 Why Transformation Matters Now 11:43 Productizing Transformation 14:00 Pricing and Outcome-Based Models 16:48 Messaging Around Who Customers Become 20:16 How to Start a Transformation Strategy 24:28 Connect With Joe Rate, Review, & Follow If you liked this episode, please rate and review the show. Let us know what you loved most about the episode. Struggling with strategy? Unlock your free AI-powered prompts now and start building a winning strategy today!

In this special episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, Joe Pine shares with Dave and Aransas background about the book!  To celebrate the release of his new book, The Transformation Economy. The conversation traces the book's origins from the final two chapters of The Experience Economy, explores why the world is finally ready for this idea, and unpacks key frameworks — including encapsulation (preparation, reflection, and integration) — that make experiences truly transformative. The trio also discusses the role of AI in enabling transformation, why businesses must foster human flourishing, and who stands to benefit most from reading the book. Key Topics Why now for The Transformation Economy? Joe waited over 25 years because "the world wasn't ready" and he "didn't know enough." Research through Stone Mantle's collaboratives, the World Experience Organization, and post-COVID shifts toward meaningful experiences signaled the time had come. Catalysts for transformation. The most prevalent catalyst is trauma — illness, loss, job changes, retirement. These disruptions create the conditions where people seek to see, do, and be differently. The four spheres of human flourishing: Health & well-being Wealth & prosperity Knowledge & wisdom Purpose & meaning Encapsulation — the essential framework (Chapter 4): To turn a memorable experience into a transformative one, you need three layers around the core experience: preparation (priming beforehand), reflection (making meaning afterward — which retroactively increases the value of the experience), and integration (sustaining change over time). The business model problem. Most companies get paid for the event, not the outcome. Shifting to outcome-based pricing — as McKinsey is doing with AI projects — aligns incentives with lasting transformation. AI as a transformation enabler. AI makes the hardest parts of delivering transformation (especially ongoing integration and support) dramatically more accessible and affordable. Who Should Read This Book? Companies in education, finance, health, and well-being Any business focused on improving the lives of families and individuals The creator economy — creators already doing transformation work who need frameworks to do it well and realize its full value Notable Quotes "The entire raison d'être of business is to foster human flourishing." — Joe Pine "Reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience." — Joe Pine "If you don't do it, it's just lazy." — Aransas Savas, on using available technology to encapsulate experiences Mentioned in This Episode The Transformation Economy by Joe Pine The Experience Economy by Joe Pine & Jim Gilmore Stone Mantel's Experience Strategy Collaboratives The World Experience Organization (founded by James Wallman) Arrival 360 Conference Daniel Kahneman's experiencing self vs. remembering self McKinsey's outcome-based AI pricing model Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper's time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn't pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that's truly the identity shift I'm actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper's entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We've been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book's co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he's back.It's been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I'm fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we've got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I'd love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd

Summary In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the burgeoning field of longevity and transformation. They explore the aspirations of individuals seeking to live longer and healthier lives, the shift in healthcare from a reactive to a proactive approach, and the role of social proof in driving transformation. The conversation also touches on the evolution of trust in the age of social media, the changing narrative around aging, and the future accessibility of longevity solutions. Takeaways People aspire to live longer and healthier lives. The healthcare industry is shifting from fixing problems to promoting flourishing. Social proof is becoming increasingly important in the transformation economy. Decentralized trust is shaping how people validate health claims. The placebo effect plays a significant role in perceived health outcomes. Aging is often misunderstood; many peak in their 50s and 60s. The evolution of science and brand is changing customer expectations. Wealthy individuals often drive innovation in health and longevity. The future of longevity solutions may become more accessible over time. Trust in brands is less centralized and more influenced by personal experiences.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Transformation and Longevity 03:10 The Ambition of Living Longer and Healthier 05:59 The Shift in Healthcare: From Fixing to Flourishing 09:07 The Role of Social Proof in the Transformation Economy 12:16 The Impact of Personal Research and Influencers 15:13 The Evolution of Science and Brand in Health 18:02 Reframing Aging: Opportunities in the Second Half of Life 21:14 The Future of Longevity and Accessibility Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

In this episode of the Experience Strategy podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the recent developments in AI leadership, particularly focusing on Sam Altman's 'code red' declaration regarding OpenAI's competition with Google. They explore the importance of experience in AI development, the frameworks that should guide AI companies, and the evolving expectations of users. The conversation delves into the distinctions between 'stupid', 'dumb', 'smart', and 'genius' AI, emphasizing the need for contextual understanding and anticipation in AI solutions. The episode concludes with thoughts on the future of AI personal assistants and the potential for a more integrated AI experience. Takeaways Experience is the key differentiator in AI competition. Frameworks like 'Stupid, Dumb, Smart, Genius' help understand AI evolution. Consumer expectations for AI are rapidly changing. AI must focus on contextual understanding to improve user experience. The distinction between smart and genius AI is crucial for development. AI hallucinations undermine user trust and effectiveness. Companies need to anticipate user needs for better AI solutions. Personal assistant AI must fulfill its promise to users. The future of AI lies in creating integrated, context-aware systems. Experience strategy is essential for navigating the AI landscape. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:26 AI Leadership and Experience Focus 06:22 Frameworks for AI and Experience Strategy 11:56 Understanding AI: Stupid, Dumb, Smart, Genius 19:24 The Future of AI and Personal Assistants   Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

We experience the world through what we notice, how we feel, and what we remember. Yet most organizations still focus on products instead of the experiences those products create. Mat Duerden has spent his career studying how experiences work, why they matter, and what turns an ordinary moment into something meaningful or even transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss what makes an experience meaningful and how reflection deepens its impact. They look at how organizations can build experience playbooks that bring brand, culture, and design together into one coherent story.Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences and a researcher focused on how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative.In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss:- Why attention drives every experience- What makes experiences memorable, meaningful, or transformative?- What designers of work can learn from studying leisure- How core design principles travel across contexts- Why experiences should be orchestrated, not staged.- How hardship can make experiences more powerful- How shared experiences build connection- What Bach and river rafting have in common- How telling the story helps learning stick- And other topics…Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of the Experience Design and Management program at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His research examines how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative, with a focus on reflection, storytelling, and attention. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences, written with Bob Rossman, and teaches experience design across business, education, and leisure contexts. Prior to academia, Mat worked extensively in outdoor recreation and youth development, shaping his interest in how shared experiences create connection.Resources Mentioned:Designing Experiences, by Mat Duerden & Bob Rossman: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Experiences-Columbia-Business-Publishing/dp/0231191685 Nicomachean Ethics, by Aristotle: https://www.amazon.com/Nicomachean-Ethics-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449493 Experience Economy, by Joe Pine & James Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978Connect with Mat:Faculty Page: https://marriott.byu.edu/directory/details?id=5773 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mat-duerden-8740969/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with business thinker Joe Pine, the legendary co-author of "The Experience Economy," for an in-depth conversation about building a career around unique ideas. Joe Pine shares insights from his early days as a self-described nerd at IBM to his role in shaping the field of mass customization and ultimately designing a business that made him stand out as a category of one. The discussion moves fluidly from personal transformation to the sweeping changes he helped pioneer in business, and what it means to thrive as a creator capitalist in today's rapidly changing world. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go.   Finding a Different Path: From Palo Alto to Publishing with Harvard Joe Pine's journey began in Palo Alto during the era of the Arpanet, with technology in his blood and a passion for applied mathematics. Pine joined IBM in 1980, at its peak as arguably the most desirable company for ambitious technologists. Despite a technical start, he found himself increasingly drawn to management, strategy, and the world of business ideas. His trajectory changed dramatically when IBM sent him to MIT for a master's in the management of technology. There, Pine encountered Stan Davis's concept of "mass customization" and felt a lightning bolt of inspiration. Deciding to turn his MIT thesis into a book, Pine landed a contract with Harvard Business School Press. The credential of publishing with Harvard, he notes, was a powerful stamp of intellectual rigor. As he recalls, “Harvard puts its stamp on it, says this is intellectually rigorous. This is a good book. This ought to be out in the world, and we want to publish it.”   Joe Pine on Leaping from Employee to Icon, and Creating the Experience Economy With his first book in hand, Pine found himself at a crossroads. The culture at IBM was changing, and a timely severance package offered him a financial cushion to take a risk. Encouraged by thought leaders he admired, he struck out on his own. Initially, IBM remained his primary client, but Pine quickly built a reputation for leading-edge thinking and collaborating with other luminaries like Don Peppers and Jim Gilmore. The launch of "The Experience Economy" marked a turning point, not just for Pine, but for the business landscape itself. He didn't merely spot a trend or invent a new buzzword; he named and framed a fundamental shift in the economy's fabric. “We didn't identify a fad, but a fundamental change in the fabric of the economy. And if it is a change in the economy, then it is always going to go like that, right? Until something surpasses it and it starts to go down as happened with commodities and goods and services.” The central idea that businesses must stage memorable experiences to remain relevant only grew more compelling over time, with Pine's frameworks gaining more relevance as the digital age accelerated.   Transformation and Identity in the Age of AI As the episode moves to the present, Pine discusses how transformation, both personal and organizational, is ultimately about changing identity. He credits much of his own success to an ability to recognize patterns and develop frameworks to describe and prescribe changes in business. Pine's recent work, including his Substack and newest book, explores not just customer experience but transformation itself, emphasizing that “all transformation is identity change.” The conversation turns to AI and the breaking waves of change it represents for businesses today, paralleling Pine's earlier identification of evolving economic eras. He sees transformation as most successful when companies or individuals are willing to fundamentally shift who they are, not just what they do. “The identity issues there are paramount because who you think you are often stops you from being able to do these things because it would change who you are so much.” Joe Pine believes that in the new world shaped by AI, those who can shed old identities and truly reinvent themselves—much as he did when he left IBM—will be the ones to define the next era. The lesson for aspiring creator capitalists is clear: the greatest value comes not only from unique ideas but also from the courage to turn those ideas into new identities, new categories, and new realities. To hear more from Joe Pine and how he built a business with his Intellectual Capital, download and listen to this episode.    Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers.   Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons   We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Two articles caught our attention. The first was in The Hollywood Reporter about a new movie theater concepts with private rooms and high end food in New York. The second was a story about the power of IMAX in the movie industry, per the Wall Street Journal.  In this episode, Joe Pine, Aransas Savas, and Dave Norton discuss the evolving landscape of the movie theater experience, particularly in light of the pandemic's impact. They explore new concepts in Hollywood, such as premium movie theaters and IMAX, and how these innovations cater to changing consumer preferences. The conversation emphasizes the importance of customization, personalization, and the need for theaters to create engaging experiences that resonate with audiences. The hosts also provide valuable insights for experience strategists on how to adapt to these trends and enhance the overall consumer experience. Takeaways The pandemic significantly impacted the movie theater industry, leading to a decline in attendance. Premiumization is a key trend in the film industry, focusing on enhancing the overall experience. Customization and personalization are crucial for attracting audiences back to theaters. Consumers decide the 'when' or the situation, then watch the movie Theaters need to innovate and create engaging environments to compete with home viewing. Experience strategists should measure the money value of time (MVT) in their offerings. The integration of social components can enhance the movie-going experience. Chapters 01:23 Hollywood's New Movie Theater Concepts 02:38 The Impact of the Pandemic on Movie Theaters 04:47 Premiumization in the Film Industry 06:40 Customization and Personalization of Movie Experiences 08:57 Consumer Preferences Post-COVID 11:38 The Role of IMAX and Alternative Experiences 16:41 Innovations in the Theater Space 20:15 Key Takeaways for Experience Strategists   Read More: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/inside-metro-private-cinema-tim-league-movie-theater-1236311204/ https://www.wsj.com/business/media/imax-movie-release-trend-6f4587a2?st=PKpj1G&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In the age of AI, conversations, not calculations, will define the future of the profession.The DisruptorsWith Liz FarrEd Kless believes accountants can do much more than monitor the numbers. Together with Ron Baker, their latest venture, Threshold, is a community that aims to support professionals in facilitating transformations in their customers. As Kless explains, transformations occur when someone makes lasting changes in one or more of the domains of human flourishing.   MORE STREAMING: Whitman: Build Culture on 'Progress,' Not Change | Shein: No PE? No M&A? No Problem | Hood and Weber: Time to RISE | Proctor: Turn Dumb Ideas into Brilliant Solutions | Carter-Gray: How 1 Poor Review Strengthened the Firm | Hartman: Upwork to “40 Under 40” in 3 Years | Telka: Transform Fear into Fuel “The purpose of business is to promote human flourishing. Profit is the result of a business. And there's nothing wrong with that,” Kless says. “I think profit is good, but it's the result. It's not the purpose.” Drawing from Benjamin Franklin and economist Russ Roberts, Kless explains that human flourishing has four domains: making people healthier, wealthier, wiser, or helping them live with more purpose.  When accountants work with customers across these four domains, they are not merely providing accounting services but are also facilitating transformations. In a recent episode of The Disruptors, Ron Baker explained Joe Pine's model for economic value, which Pine described in his earlier book, “The Experience Economy.” In this model, transformations are the most valuable of economic offerings. 

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss an article from the Wall Street Journal about High Point University in North Carolina, which has become a magnet for wealthy students. They explore how the university's focus on creating transformational experiences and life skills prepares students for their future careers. The conversation also touches on the role of parents in educational choices, the future of higher education, and the need for universities to have a strong point of view on their purpose and offerings. Oh and listen to Aransas' assessement of Love Shack Fancy. Takeaways High Point University is setting a new trend in education. Transformational experiences are key to preparing students for careers. Parents play a crucial role in educational choices. The focus should be on life skills, not just degrees. Higher education needs to adapt to changing societal needs. Universities must understand their customer base. A degree should be seen as an output, not an outcome. Colleges need to differentiate themselves in a competitive market. Transformational offerings can attract students and parents alike. The future of education may involve more practical skills and less traditional degrees. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 00:39 High Point University: A New Blueprint for Education 05:19 Transformational Experiences in Higher Education 10:26 The Role of Parents in Educational Choices 12:46 Cultural Fit in College Selection 16:48 The Future of Higher Education 21:03 Experiential Retail: Lessons from Love Shack Fancy Read More: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/north-carolina-college-high-point-amenities-30b0fc14?mod=hp_lead_pos7 https://www.loveshackfancy.com Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Most organizations think about the design of work in terms of products, services, or customer journeys. But Dave Norton has spent his career arguing that experience design goes much deeper. It is about shaping how people spend their time and, in some cases, their lives. In this episode, Dart talks to Dave about how experience design has evolved, why context matters more than personality, and how AI may finally make transformational design scalable.Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, an insights consultancy focused on helping companies create meaningful experiences for their customers and employees. A pioneer in experience strategy, he helps organizations across industries rethink the meaning of time, transformation, and context in design.In this episode, Dart and Dave discuss:- The evolution of experience design- Why context matters more than customer psychology- How to design time that is well saved, well spent, and well invested- Why transformation requires discomfort- The power of modes and modularity in designing for focus- How to design whole offerings that get the “whole job” done- Why AI could help scale transformational design- And other topics…Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, the experience strategy firm built on the belief that meaningful work is less about what you sell and more about how people spend their time. He began working with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, in the early 2000s and in 2005 launched Stone Mantel to help organizations design experiences that are “time well spent.” Over the years, he has guided clients across industries, including healthcare, banking, and hospitality, shifting the focus from features to whole offerings and from channels to moments.Resources Mentioned:Stone Mantle: https://www.stonemantel.co/ The Experience Strategist (Substack): https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/ The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customers-Service/dp/1422161978Connect with Dave:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davenortonphd/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss PwC's recent report on growth through experience. They explore the evolving definitions of customer experience, emphasizing the importance of trust and meaningful interactions. The conversation delves into PwC's four dimensions of exceptional experiences: coherence, personalization, engagement, and distinctiveness. The hosts critique traditional measurement methods in customer experience, advocating for a focus on meaningful experiences rather than mere service delivery. They also discuss the significance of managing moments of frustration and the concept of modes in customer journeys, concluding with insights from case studies in various industries. Takeaways Customer experience is fragile and requires trust. Meaningful experiences drive customer loyalty. Seamlessness is the baseline, not a value add. Exceptional experiences are defined by PwC as coherence, personalization, engagement, and distinctiveness. Measurement should focus on meaning, not just metrics. Managing frustration can create deeper customer relationships. Modes influence how customers interact with experiences. Retail must embrace experiential strategies to thrive. Trust is a predictor of growth in customer experience. The shift towards experience as a business strategy is gaining traction. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 02:17 Understanding Customer Experience and Trust 05:21 Defining Exceptional Experiences 09:41 The Importance of Measurement in Experience 12:10 Rethinking Value Creation and Trust 13:57 Managing Moments of Frustration 16:43 Modes and Their Impact on Experience 17:09 Case Studies in Exceptional Experiences 19:30 Conclusion and Future Insights Read More: https://www.pwcresearch.com/uc/images/GrowthThroughExperience_2025.pdf Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss their recent experiences at the Arival Conference and The Collaboratives, focusing on the evolving landscape of travel experiences and the impact of AI on search and social proof. They emphasize the importance of human connection in the age of AI, the significance of time well spent, and the necessity for companies to have a distinct point of view to thrive in a competitive market. Takeaways AI searches are five times longer than traditional searches. Web crawlers for AI tools are limited and slow. Search can be considered an experience in itself. The importance of social proof is increasing in search results. Human connection is essential in the age of AI. A good tour guide can significantly enhance the experience. Companies must have a unique point of view to survive. The concept of time well spent is crucial for success. Sameness in offerings will be a challenge for businesses. Continuous learning and adaptation are vital for experience strategists. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:29 Insights from the Arrival Conference 05:50 The Impact of AI on Search and Experience 12:11 The Importance of Human Connection 19:00 Time Well Spent: A New Perspective 23:18 Conclusion and Future Directions   Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

Adweek just did a write up on Uber's new ad campaign and we found reasons to concur with the article and take what Uber is doing farther. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aranzas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Uber's new advertising campaign, focusing on its storytelling approach and the importance of experiences in marketing. They explore how Uber positions itself as a service that enables meaningful experiences, the emotional, social, and systemic jobs it could fulfill, and the broader implications for brands in commoditized industries. The conversation also delves into the significance of modes and situations in user experience, and how universal storytelling can resonate with diverse audiences. Takeaways Uber's new campaign emphasizes storytelling over traditional advertising. Experiences are crucial for differentiation in a commoditized market. Uber positions itself as an enabler of meaningful experiences. The campaign highlights reliability and dependability as key selling points. Emotional and social jobs are opportunity areas for Uber experiences. The storytelling is both universal and situational--and Tiktokky Modes and situations play a significant role in Uber experiences. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Uber's New Campaign 01:40 The Power of Storytelling in Advertising 04:00 Experiences as Differentiation in Marketing 07:28 The Role of Uber in Enabling Experiences 09:47 Promises and Expectations in Service 12:06 Social and Emotional Jobs of Uber 13:47 Aspirational and Systemic Jobs to Be Done 16:35 Modes and Situations in User Experience 20:17 Universal Storytelling in Advertising 22:24 Conclusion and Future Discussions Read more https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/uber-drives-home-the-power-of-showing-up-in-new-on-our-way-ad/ Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

Lil' Miquela and Mia Zelu have millions of followers and generate serious income, despite being created with artificial intelligence. A recent article in the NY Times caught our attention and we just had to weigh in on how AI influencers are changing the way customers think about what they can trust. In this episode of the Experience Strategy podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the intriguing world of AI influencers, exploring their rise, the complexities of trust and authenticity in the digital age, and the implications for the future of influencer experiences. They discuss the evolving nature of social proof, the role of empathy in AI, and how brands can navigate the changing landscape of consumer relationships. The conversation highlights the need for transparency and authenticity in experience strategies, as well as the potential shift towards hyperlocal influencers. Takeaways AI influencers are gaining popularity and generating significant income. Parasocial relationships with AI are becoming more common. Trust in AI influencers is complex and multifaceted. Authenticity is increasingly important in the digital age. Social proof is being redefined in the context of AI. The role of empathy in AI is a contentious topic. Brands need to be transparent about AI-generated content. Micro-influencers may become more valuable than traditional influencers. Understanding customer needs is crucial for effective marketing. The future of AI and human relationships is uncertain and thought-provoking. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to AI Influencers 02:44 The Rise of AI Personalities 05:54 Trust and Authenticity in AI 08:53 The Evolution of Social Proof 11:53 AI and Empathy: A Complex Relationship 14:48 The Role of Brands and Influencers 17:47 Lessons for Experience Strategists 20:46 The Future of AI Storytelling 23:43 Conclusion and Reflections   Read more https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/03/style/ai-influencers-lil-miquela-mia-zelu.html Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

In The New York Times article written by Daniel Currell, the author/consultant contents that Disney's tiered system is designed to target affluent guests, not middle class people. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss the article about Disney's transformation from an egalitarian experience to a tiered system. They explore the implications of this shift on the middle class, the increasing value placed on experiences, and the desire for connection among visitors. The conversation delves into the role of services, time value, and the exclusivity of certain experiences, ultimately addressing the future of Disney and its expansion opportunities. This episode is brought to you by The Cargo Agency and Feedback Now. Takeaways Disney has shifted from an egalitarian mindset to a tiered system. The value of experiences has increased significantly over the years. Wealth impacts the amount of time one can spend enjoying experiences. Visitors seek connective experiences with loved ones. Services play a crucial role in enhancing the overall experience. Having multiple channels is a key strategy for growth. Club 33 represents the only exclusive experience in the park. Time is a critical currency in the experience economy. Disney's pricing strategy reflects the value of experiences. The future of Disney may involve expansion and innovation.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 00:26 Disney's Shift from Egalitarianism 01:44 The Value of Experience and Pricing 05:21 The Impact of Wealth on Experience 06:47 The Desire for Connection in Experiences 09:54 The Role of Services in Enhancing Experiences 12:03 Gamification and the Disney Ecosystem 15:47 The Exclusivity of Club 33 18:03 Time as a Currency in Experiences 21:18 The Future of Disney and Expansion Ideas Read more https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/opinion/disney-world-economy-middle-class-rich.html?unlocked_article_code=1.iU8.Yl9x.HdJppkkpqYcr&smid=url-share Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

In an August 14th Vogue Business article by Madeleine Schultz , Saks Global, the parent company of Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus and Bergdorf Goodman, discussed its personalisation strategy and an investment of $600 million for it's new platform. The only problem is: based on the article, we think they got it wrong. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the evolving landscape of personalization in retail, particularly focusing on Saks Global's new strategies. They discuss the importance of understanding customer modes, the role of contextual data, and the challenges faced by traditional personalization approaches. The conversation highlights the need for brands to meet customers where they are, especially in the age of social shopping, and emphasizes the integration of online and offline experiences to enhance customer engagement. This episode is brought to you by The Cargo Agency and Feedback Now. Takeaways Personalization is a form of customization for individuals. Saks has invested heavily in personalization strategies. Modes thinking is crucial for effective personalization. Contextual data is essential for understanding customer needs. Traditional personalization approaches may feel outdated. Social shopping is a growing trend in retail. Brands must meet customers where they are online. Integration of online and offline experiences is key. Personalization should not just be about demographics. The future of retail lies in innovative and brave strategies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Personalization in Retail 02:57 Exploring Hyper-Personalization Strategies 05:55 The Importance of Context in Personalization 09:05 The Role of AI and Machine Learning 11:57 Challenges of Traditional Retail Personalization 14:49 The Shift Towards Social Shopping 17:45 Integrating Online and Offline Experiences 20:48 Future Directions for Retail Personalization Read more https://www.voguebusiness.com/story/consumers/inside-saks-globals-personalisation-strategy?utm_source=chatgpt.com Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a recent episode of the Diary of a CEO featuring Mo Gawdot, who predicts a dystopian future driven by technology and AI. The conversation explores themes of transformation, the value of work, and the implications of AI on jobs and society. The hosts critique Mo Gawdot's techno-extremism and emphasize the importance of hope and purpose in navigating the future. Using insights from The Experience Economy, from Experience Strategy, and human behavior, they argue for a bright future for those focused on customer's needs and desires Takeaways Mo Gawdot predicts a 15-year dystopia followed by a utopia. Critique of techno extremism highlights the need for balance. Transformation is key to the future economy. Work provides purpose and meaning to individuals. AI will create new jobs, not eliminate them. Gawdot argues against hope and against innovation Embracing AI is crucial for future success. People are resources that drive innovation. Experience strategists need to develop a strategic point of view to thrive in the future Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:26 Mo Gawdot's Dystopian Predictions 02:54 Critique of Techno-Extremism 05:19 Transformation vs. Dystopia 10:24 The Role of Work in Human Dignity 14:41 AI and the Future of Work 18:59 Hope and Transformation 22:55 The Last Mile Issue in Automation 25:02 Future Skills for Experience Strategists   Read more https://open.substack.com/pub/theexperiencestrategist/p/the-future-is-uncertain-and-bright?r=257bs3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false Podcast Sponsor: Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

This episode builds on Dave Norton's article on Substack about Kate King's report in the Wall Street Journal: Can the French Reinvent America's Broken Department Store Model. Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the evolving landscape of retail, particularly focusing on the experiential model as exemplified by the French department store Printemps. They explore the differences between traditional American department stores and European models, emphasizing the importance of creating engaging experiences that encourage customers to linger. The conversation also touches on metrics for measuring success in experiential retail and highlights case studies like La Varia Leo bookstore, while critiquing Macy's for missing opportunities to connect with consumers. Takeaways The American department store model is in decline. Experiential retail focuses on creating reasons for customers to stay. Time spent in a retail space correlates with increased sales. European department stores are thriving by offering immersive experiences. Retailers need to shift from product staging to experience staging. Metrics for success should include time well spent and revenue increases. Charging for experiences can turn marketing into a profit center. La Varia Leo bookstore successfully monetized its experience. Macy's has not adapted to the experiential retail trend. Retailers must innovate to compete with online shopping. Sound bites "It's about time well spent." "You want to hang out there." "Macy's has done none of this." Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 02:46 The European Retail Experience 11:30 Transformative Retail Experiences 19:58 Metrics for Success in Retail 23:35 The Future of Retail Experiences   Read more https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/commercial/can-the-french-reinvent-americas-broken-department-store-model-ff719a4a?st=9K6WB8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/p/america-looks-to-europe-to-reinvigorate Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the economic power of experience strategy in various industries, focusing on an article in the Wall Street Journal on the Atlanta Braves and their innovative approach to sports business through the Battery Atlanta.  They explore the concept of Disneyfication, where businesses create holistic experiences that enhance customer engagement and economic impact. The conversation also delves into the potential for reimagining healthcare facilities as experience-driven environments, emphasizing the interconnectedness of experiences, goods, and services in today's economy. Takeaways The Atlanta Braves have revolutionized the sports business model through experience strategy. Experience economy prioritizes experiences over goods and services. The Battery Atlanta serves as a model for mixed-use development. Sports venues can act as anchors for surrounding retail and experiences. Disneyfication is a viable strategy for various industries. Healthcare can be transformed into experience-driven environments. Cities can become experience hubs to attract tourism and business. The economic impact of sports venues extends beyond ticket sales. Creating holistic experiences can lead to community engagement and economic growth. The experience economy is reshaping consumer preferences and business strategies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy Podcast 02:11 The Atlanta Braves: A Case Study in Experience Strategy 12:47 Disneyfication: Transforming Industries through Experience 15:14 Reimagining Healthcare and Other Industries: The Disneyfication of Everything 20:31 The Interconnectedness of Experiences, Goods, and Services   Read More: https://www.wsj.com/sports/baseball/truist-park-battery-atlanta-a3698b69?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1 Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

In this powerful conversation, Michael D. Levitt and branding expert Barry LaBov explore the critical role of differentiation in today's hyper-competitive and fast-moving business world. It's not about being the biggest or best in every category—it's about being unmistakably you. The Human Edge of Differentiation Barry opens with a compelling take: while modern tools have made producing fast, mediocre content easier, what sets brands apart today is authenticity and humanity. He warns that failing to stand out leads to commoditization, lower profits, and disengaged teams. The takeaway? Know what makes you unique—and amplify it with intention. Purpose Starts with "Who Are We?" Michael shares a story from a nonprofit healthcare board meeting where a simple but profound question was raised: “Who are we?” That moment sparked a conversation about alignment, identity, and clarity. He reminds leaders to pause regularly, assess direction, and stay grounded in purpose. Barry echoes this, referencing Simon Sinek's “Start With Why,” but adds: you also need to clearly explain what you do and how it fulfills that purpose. Belief Begins Within Barry shifts the focus inward, discussing how employee belief in a company's mission and differentiation directly impacts its longevity—citing that 16 of 17 startups fail within 10 years. His latest book, written during the COVID-era resignation wave, focuses on helping companies win hearts and minds through internal and external clarity. Real-world stories and practical frameworks help teams rediscover what makes them special. Small Shifts, Big Impact Michael dives into adaptability with a brilliant metaphor: changing the lighting in a room can completely alter its feel without replacing the furniture. In the same way, businesses often need thoughtful tweaks—not complete reinventions. He also addresses current workplace trends—like post-2021 turnover and return-to-office debates—urging leaders to listen to their people and lead with empathy and internal communication. Say It Like You Mean It Wrapping up, Barry and Michael discuss how language shapes culture. Self-deprecating phrases like “best kept secret” can quietly undermine confidence inside and outside the organization. Instead, leaders should communicate honestly and boldly about their value—without veering into ego. Michael even mentions recommending Barry's book to a client struggling with this exact challenge. Key Takeaways: True differentiation stems from authenticity, not superiority. Purpose is revealed by asking the hard questions—internally and externally. Your team must believe in what sets your organization apart. Minor shifts in leadership and culture can produce major results. How you describe your business matters—internally and externally.

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the intersection of aging and technology, particularly focusing on how technology can be designed to support cognitive health as we age. They reflect on a personal article by Robert Fabricant in Fast Company that challenges the current approach to technology for the aging population, advocating for ambient adaptive technology that promotes dignity and agency. The conversation explores the need for AI design that accommodates cognitive decline, the importance of contextual awareness in technology, and the potential for transformational technology to enhance the quality of life for older adults. This podcast is brought to by Feedback Now, the world's best solution for real-time feedback. Takeaways: AI Technology should be designed for aging well. Cognitive decline requires specific support. Adaptive technology can enhance dignity in aging. Ideally AI should passively support people in cognitive decline Contextual awareness can improve how people engage with tool. Designing for accessibility benefits everyone. Transformational technology can maintain cognitive function. Data can empower users to understand their health better. The future of technology lies in integration with life systems.   Chapters” 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:17 Reflections on Aging and Technology 04:12 The Role of Adaptive Technology 12:03 Contextual Experience Design 15:52 Superpowers and Cognitive Support 20:39 The Future of Health Technology 23:54 Designing for Resilience vs. Performance Read More: https://www.fastcompany.com/91350804/why-im-wishing-for-different-technology-on-fathers-day Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com    

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Airbnb's recent rebranding and its shift from a focus solely on home bookings to a more holistic approach that includes services and experiences. They explore the implications of this transformation for the travel industry, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, operational platforms, and the experience economy. The conversation highlights the potential for Airbnb to create unique, transformative travel experiences that resonate with customers' desires for connection and personal growth. Takeaways Airbnb is evolving from just home bookings to offering services and experiences. Transformative travel is about creating lasting changes in identity and aspirations. Airbnb's operational platform can help travelers manage their entire itinerary. Authenticity in travel experiences is key to perceived value. Experience stacking allows for unique offerings that enhance customer engagement. The shift from a sharing economy to an experience economy is crucial for value creation. Vetting experiences builds trust and enhances customer satisfaction. Airbnb's community aspect deepens the travel experience. The future of travel will focus on personalized and bespoke experiences. Airbnb's approach could raise the standard for the entire travel industry. Chapters 00:00 The Evolution of Airbnb: A New Era in Travel 03:24 Transformative Experiences: Beyond Just Stays 06:16 Operational Platforms: The Future of Travel Itineraries 09:12 Authenticity in Travel: The Airbnb Advantage 14:50 The Shift from Sharing to Experience Economy 17:33 Creating Value Through Experiences 20:34 The Role of Trust and Vetting in In Destination Experiences 23:27 The Future of Airbnb and the Experience Economy   Read More: https://news.airbnb.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: The Experience Strategist A newsletter about creating value for customers, employees, and companies. By Dave Norton  

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine discuss fashion group Zara's innovative travel mode, which allows users to shop for products while traveling. They explore the concept of 'modes'—temporary mindsets and behaviors that influence customer experiences—and how Zara's travel mode can enhance customer engagement. The conversation delves into the importance of context, opportunities for improvement, and the potential for community building through social media. The hosts emphasize the dynamic nature of modes and the need for behavioral science to further explore this concept. Takeaways Zara's travel mode allows shopping while traveling. Modes are temporary mindsets that influence behavior. Travel mode operates without internet access, enhancing usability. Anticipating customer context is crucial for effective modes. Supporting customer modes can create more buying opportunities. Zara's travel mode is a key conversion strategy. Leveraging community and social media can enhance customer experience. Zara should focus on its strengths in fashion. Behavioral science should study modes more extensively. The dynamic nature of modes offers opportunities for brands. Chapters 00:00Exploring Zara's Travel Mode Initiative 06:01Understanding Human Modes vs. Technology Modes 08:45The Importance of Context in Customer Experience 14:49Evaluating the Effectiveness of Zara's App Features 17:43Leveraging Community and Social Media for Engagement 20:47The Role of Behavioral Science in Understanding Modes 26:46Future Directions and Listener Engagement

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a Wall Street Journal article written by Jennifer Williams about retail, focusing on how major brands are intentionally slowing down the shopping experience to enhance customer engagement. They explore the importance of creating meaningful experiences, the lessons learned from Toys R Us, and the need for authenticity in retail strategies. The conversation emphasizes measuring success beyond traditional sales metrics and highlights the future of experience-led brands. Takeaways The longer someone spends in a store, the more likely they are to convert into a purchaser. Retailers are adding experiences to encourage customers to linger longer. Time well spent is a key concept in enhancing customer experience. Experiences must be meaningful and relevant to the brand. Toys R Us failed to create relevant experiences for their target audience. Lego gets it. Camp.com gets it. Retail success should be measured by time value, not just sales per square foot. Authenticity in brand experiences is crucial for customer loyalty. Walmart is evolving to compete with experiential brands. Experience-led brands can charge for their unique offerings. Read More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shop-slow-spend-more-the-retailers-hoping-that-customers-linger-0c87ea24?st=etbsMd&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://camp.com Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Well it really is the summer season now here in North America. And I am going to start the summer by having a burning bush birthday and I'm gonna turn that into a burning bush summer. No I don't plan to burn anything down but this is a metaphor for a very powerful principle that could guide our life if we fully understood it and acted upon it. And I'm going to try to do that.  With your permission may I take just 13 minutes to tell you what that all means to me and how it might be helpful to both of us and then may I inspire you to make this a very special summer for you too. Maybe it's time for you to make your mark and be reckoned with! And once again the robot wanted to add his comments to the program! My Burning Bush Summer—And Maybe Yours Too By Stan Hustad This summer, I've decided not to just sweat through the heat—I'm going to set my soul on fire. I'm calling it My Burning Bush Summer, and no, I'm not heading off into the wilderness in sandals. But like Moses, I'm hoping for a moment of clarity, calling, and maybe even a little bit of divine direction. Let me explain. What's a Burning Bush Summer? Think of it as a metaphor. Just like Moses stumbled on that mysterious, fiery shrub that wouldn't burn out, I'm looking for the spark that grabs attention and doesn't let go. This isn't about a midlife crisis. This is about a mid-year mission: to ignite something purposeful, powerful, and personal—something that just might change my life and, if I do it right, maybe someone else's. And that, dear reader, is where you come in. From Thump Day to Impact Zone It all started on a Wednesday I now call “Thump Day.” Not just the middle of the week—this is when you pound the table, recommit to your purpose, and say: “Let's do something meaningful.” For me, that means launching a few bold initiatives: - The Impact Zone: Not self-improvement—self-expression with impact. It's where you learn to make your mark, become someone worth reckoning with, and find your voice in the noisy marketplace. - The Christian Entrepreneur Network: Where we teach people how to be Jesus entrepreneurs—bold, brave, and kingdom-minded in business. It's not about proselytizing. It's about practicing. Not about preaching. About producing. - The Transformation Zone: In partnership with folks like Joe Pine, we'll go beyond change into transformation. Not just better—but different. - The Generosity Zone: Where we'll help people understand that success isn't about what you take—it's about what you give. All of this is anchored in the idea that this summer could be your turning point. Not just a time for vacations and BBQs (though I'm for that too), but a chance to ask: Am I serious about living a life that matters? The Power of Performance If content is king, then performance is queen—and if you know your chess, the queen moves the board. That's why I believe in personal performance marketing. Whether you're trying to land a job, start a business, or launch a podcast—it's not just about what you know. It's about how you show who you are. This summer, I'm helping people become MSCs—Masters of Self-Communication. You've got to sell your intelligence, your empathy, your energy, and your value. If you're asking someone to pay you $50,000, remember: they could buy a new car instead. You've got to prove you're the better investment. Plans, Purpose, and a Touch of Nostalgia Personally, I'm even planning to revisit my roots—a little town in North Dakota where I spent my earliest years. I haven't been back in over six decades. There's something sacred about returning to where it all began. Maybe there's a burning bush waiting for me on that prairie. I'm also taking time to celebrate birthdays and beaches here in Carolina. Rest, reflect, reset. And then I'll be back—because this work, this mission, this summer matters. What About Your Burning Bush Summer? This isn't just about me. It's about you. - What's going to set your summer on fire in the best way? - What story do you want to tell come September? - Who do you want to become by the time the leaves change? Maybe it's launching that podcast. Starting that business. Forging that friendship. Or simply becoming the person you've always known you were meant to be. I'm here to help. If I can't, I probably know someone who can. That's what a burning bush moment is all about—suddenly seeing the path, the power, and the people who can walk with you. Takeaways for Your Summer Journey -

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Tony Bates article in Fortune Magazine on the intersection of empathy, AI, and customer experience. They explore how empathy is often seen as a critical component in business interactions, especially in the context of AI's role in enhancing customer service. The conversation delves into the nuances of sympathy versus empathy, the importance of emotional jobs in customer interactions, and the need for businesses to differentiate themselves through human elements in an increasingly automated world.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:50 The Role of Empathy in AI and Business 06:43 Sympathy vs. Empathy in Customer Experience 12:12 Emotional Jobs and AI's Role 14:55 Human Element as a Differentiator 20:56 The Future of AI and Experience Strategy Read more here: https://fortune.com/article/ai-empathy-business-customer-loyalty-tech/?utm_source=search&utm_medium=suggested_search&utm_campaign=search_link_clicks Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here:  https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

Summary In this episode, the hosts discuss the upcoming book 'The Transformation Economy' by Joe Pine, exploring the readiness of the world for transformation, the role of technology, and the importance of creating experiences that lead to lasting change. They delve into the nuances of transformation, including the distinction between temporary and permanent changes, the interconnection between experiences and transformations, and the need for businesses to adapt their models to support customer outcomes. The conversation highlights the exciting potential for transformation in various industries and the importance of collaboration in achieving meaningful change. Takeaways The world is now ready for The Transformation Economy. Transformation is a big word, often scary. We only ever change through our experiences. Create the experience of transformation, not the promise. Temporary transformation is a type of transformation. You can't transform without experiences. Charge for the outcomes your customers achieve. Transformation requires follow-through and support. The future of transformation is super exciting. We need a chief transformation officer focused on customers.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Transformation Economy 02:58 The Readiness for Transformation 06:00 The Role of Technology in Transformation 09:04 Personal Experiences and Transformation 12:08 Understanding Transformation: Temporary vs Permanent 14:55 The Interconnection of Experiences and Transformations 17:54 Levels of Experiences and Their Impact 20:50 Sustaining Transformation 24:00 Business Models for Transformation 27:13 The Future of Transformation Strategy  

Summary In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the strategic genius of Taylor Swift, exploring how her approach transcends music to embody principles of experience strategy. They discuss her emotional connection with fans, authenticity, and the aspirational roles she plays for her audience, particularly young women. The conversation highlights the economic impact of her experiences and the lessons that can be drawn for businesses in the experience economy.   Takeaways Taylor Swift's success is rooted in her emotional connection with fans. Her strategies reflect core principles of innovation and experience strategy Authenticity is key to maintaining relevance and trust with consumers. Super consumers are emotionally connected and deeply involved with the experience. Taylor Swift's evolution showcases the importance of staying true to oneself while innovating. Mentorship and community are significant aspects of her appeal to young women. Experiential engagement creates lasting memories and connections for audiences. The economic impact of her tours demonstrates the value of experiences. Her collaborations highlight the balance between authenticity and innovation. Taylor Swift serves as a modern case study for experience strategy in action.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:24 Exploring Taylor Swift's Strategic Genius 05:36 Emotional Connection and Authenticity in Experience 10:32 Principles of Authenticity and Evolution 15:28 Aspirational Jobs and Mentorship 20:05 Experiential Engagement and Economic Impact Read more here: https://hbr.org/2025/03/the-strategic-genius-of-taylor-swift Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here:  https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com    

In this episode, Ron Baker, founder of the VeraSage Institute, challenges traditional views of innovation in accounting. Instead of focusing on technology like AI and automation, Ron advocates for transforming the value we provide to clients, shifting from transactional services to outcomes and personal growth. He highlights Fender's shift from selling guitars to teaching customers how to become musicians as a key example of transformation.Ron also reframes burnout as "moral injury," the emotional toll of not living up to the deeper purpose of the profession, which is helping people. This conversation is full of actionable ideas to help CPAs evolve beyond billable hours and checklists. Tune in for a fresh perspective on the future of accounting and how to make a greater impact.Resources:VeraSage InstituteRon Baker biography and workRon Baker's podcast, The Soul of the Enterprise "The Experience Economy" book by Joe Pine and James GilmorePwC 2023 Consumer Insights Report Deloitte's Human Outcomes Study

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Aransas Savas, and Dave Norton discuss the Wall Street Journal article about Cracker Barrel's recent transformation efforts aimed at attracting younger customers while retaining their core base. They explore the challenges and opportunities of modernizing a legacy brand, emphasizing the importance of experience strategy over mere aesthetic changes. The conversation highlights the role of employees in successful transformations, the impact of economic factors on customer behavior, and innovative ideas for enhancing the dining experience. Cracker Barrel is attempting to modernize while retaining its nostalgic appeal. Transformations often fail when they ignore the core customer base. Experience should lead brand decisions, not the other way around. Employee involvement is crucial for successful transformations.  Economic changes can create opportunities for brands like Cracker Barrel. Experience strategy can be a powerful tool in attracting customers. Innovative dining experiences can differentiate a brand. Understanding customer needs is essential for effective transformation. Merchandising strategies can enhance the overall experience.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:05 Cracker Barrel's Transformation Journey 04:05 Understanding Cracker Barrel's Nostalgia and Experience 08:10 The Role of Aesthetics in Experience 10:06 Employee Engagement in Transformations 14:07 Navigating Economic Challenges and Customer Needs 18:04 Innovative Ideas for Enhancing Customer Experience 20:16 Conclusion and Future Insights

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine discuss the evolution of the podcast, introduce new co-hosts, and explore the concept of experiential retail through the lens of Scheels, a successful retail store. You might have seen in The Washington Post that Scheels is conquering middle America. During a downturn and with tariffs on the way, how will people shop at retailers like Scheels. They emphasize the importance of community, trust, and contextual design in creating meaningful experiences for customers. The episode wraps up with key takeaways for strategists looking to enhance their experience strategies. Takeaways The podcast has an additional co-host! Joe Pine The Washington Post did a great article about marketing experience retailer, Scheels. Scheels is a successful example of experiential retail. Experiential retail can drive sales for surrounding stores. Community involvement builds trust with customers. Charging for experiences can turn marketing into a profit center. Design experiences with the customer's context in mind. Companies that reinvest in communities earn sustainable trust. The importance of creating third places for community gathering. Experience strategies should focus on customer systems. Engaging in local experience excursions can provide valuable insights. This episode brought to you by The Experience Strategy Collaboratives. Enter to win a free one-person membership in the Collaboratives —a $35,000 value! Chapters 00:00 Welcome Back to Experience Strategy Podcast 03:22 Introducing the New Format and Co-Hosts 05:24 Exploring the Scheels Experience 11:01 The Importance of Context in Experience Design 18:06 Building Trust Through Community Engagement 21:11 Wrap-Up and Key Takeaways

We're live! Broadcasting straight from Israel, we're kicking off this third season with another amazing episode for you

Episode 247FACULTY: Principal Ron BakerCLASS: #TheGuideIn this episode, Scott is in the office again with Accounting High Principal Ron Baker to discuss the future of accounting and the shift towards the transformation economy. Ron outlines the evolution of economic eras and how firms can position themselves to offer superior value by focusing on transformations rather than just services. They also touch on examples from various industries, and discuss the potential of subscription models.

Joe Pine was the first to identify many of the trends that have animated business for the last two decades, including the trend away from simple mass production to mass customization, and the emergence of the experience economy. Today, Joe joins us to discuss how those trends are influencing the future of work, and how companies might mass-customize experiences for employees.Joe Pine is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and startups. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:- The progression of economic value- The Experience Economy- The current transformation economy- How to customize a customer's experience and promote transformation- Brand authenticity- Focusing on value vs. price- The management style we need to create value- How to revitalize a business- The importance of company exploration and innovation- And more…Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Columbia University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.Joe serves as a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.Resources Mentioned:The Experience Economy, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975Mass Customization, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727Authenticity, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Authenticity-What-Consumers-Really-Want/dp/1591391458Travel that Can Change Your Life, by Jeffrey Kotler: www.amazon.com/Travel-That-Change-Your-Life/dp/0787909416Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Send us a Text Message.In this episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, host Curveball sits down with Diane Hopkins, the founder and CEO of Xperes. Diane is a marketing guru with extensive experience in marketing communications, customer design strategy, and is a certified Experience Economy expert. Join us as Diane shares her journey from a traditional marketing career to becoming one of the first chief experience officers in the healthcare industry in the U.S., and eventually founding her own consulting business.www.expeers.netplease be sure to follow, rate, review, ad share this episode to as many people as possible.

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we delve into the revolutionary concept of the experience economy. Coined by Joe Pine and James Gilmore in the late 1990s, the experience economy has transformed how businesses engage with customers. This episode will break down the key insights from our conversation, offering actionable advice and thorough explanations on how to leverage the hero's journey framework to elevate customer interactions. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Understanding the Experience Economy The experience economy is a concept that suggests businesses can create value by crafting memorable experiences for their customers, rather than just offering products or services. Pine and Gilmore's visionary work has influenced modern business thinking, pushing companies to focus on the emotional and experiential aspects of customer interactions. Key Takeaways: Shift from Goods to Experiences: Businesses need to move beyond selling products and services to creating immersive experiences that resonate with customers on a deeper level. Emotional Engagement: Experiences that evoke emotions are more likely to be remembered and valued by customers, leading to increased loyalty and advocacy.   The Hero's Journey Framework The hero's journey, a narrative structure popularized by Joseph Campbell, can be a powerful tool for businesses looking to create meaningful customer experiences. This framework involves a hero (the customer) embarking on an adventure, facing challenges, and ultimately achieving transformation. Steps of the Hero's Journey: The Call to Adventure: The customer recognizes a need or desire that prompts them to seek out a solution. Crossing the Threshold: The customer takes the first step towards addressing their need, often by engaging with a brand or product. Trials and Tribulations: The customer faces challenges and obstacles, which the brand helps them overcome. Transformation and Reward: The customer experiences personal growth and satisfaction from overcoming challenges, leading to a deeper connection with the brand.   Making Customers the Heroes One of the most impactful ways to engage customers is by positioning them as the heroes of their own stories. This approach not only enhances their experience but also fosters a sense of empowerment and loyalty. Actionable Tips: Understand Customer Needs: Conduct thorough research to understand the desires, pain points, and aspirations of your customers. Craft Personalized Experiences: Use the insights gained from your research to create tailored experiences that address individual customer needs. Support and Guide: Act as a mentor or guide, providing the tools and support customers need to overcome their challenges. For more insights and examples from the Category Pirates, download and listen to this episode. Don't forget to grab a copy (or gift!) of one of our best-selling books:  Snow Leopard: How Legendary Writers Create A Category Of One  The Category Design Toolkit: Beyond Marketing: 15 Frameworks For Creating & Dominating Your Niche  A Marketer's Guide To Category Design: How To Escape The “Better” Trap, Dam The Demand, And Launch A Lightning Strike Strategy The 22 Laws of Category Design: Name & Claim Your Niche, Share Your POV, And Move The World From Where It Is To Somewhere Different  **NEW!** The B2B Tech Marketer's Guide To Category Design: How To Engineer Your Market, Find What Makes You Different, And Become A Category Queen We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Are you familiar with the game-changing impact of transitioning your business from offering services to providing experiences and even transformations? In this Exit Insights podcast episode with Joe Pine, the author of the influential book, "The Experience Economy," we explored the evolution of adding value to economic offerings for clients. The insights shared shed light on the transition from offering goods and services to providing experiences and transformations, ultimately elevating the economic value a business can offer. One key takeaway from the discussion was the necessity of determining the true business you are in and recognising the opportunities to shift up the progression of economic value. Understanding this is crucial to creating more economic value, increasing business valuation, and offering clients something far more valuable than just a service or good. As Joe Pine emphasised, this shift can lead to increased profitability, higher revenue, positive word-of-mouth, and greater engagement with customers. By aligning your business with the mindset of providing time well spent and outcomes for clients, you can position yourself for success in the experience and transformation economy. Want to learn more about leveraging experiences and transformations to enhance your business value? Consider subscribing to Joe Pine's Substack for the latest insights and cutting-edge strategies. Let's keep the conversation going and explore these game-changing concepts. What opportunities do you see for your business in transitioning to the experience and transformation economy? We'd love to hear your thoughts! Watch the episode here: https://succession.plus/uk/podcasts-uk/joe-pine/ If you would like to learn more about how to start preparing your business, then you can get more information here: It All Begins with Insights. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joe Pine has a knack for seeing workplace trends ahead of others. As a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, he has helped organizations innovatively increase economic value for over three decades. Joe is a pioneer behind the experience economy, and he is now trailblazing the concept of a transformation economy in his latest book. Join us as we discuss the fifth and final economic offering and how it can impact employees and customers alike. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:- Joe's latest writing project on the transformation economy- Examples of transformative experiences - The economic value of customer transformation- How to recognize different types of transformation - Work as a transformation offering- The correlation between transformation and wealth- How to create transformative experiences for individual aspirations- Joe's outlook on the experience-design profession- And other topics…Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Northeastern University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years. He is now pioneering the idea of a Transformation Economy through the development of his latest book. Joe is a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, a lecturer at Columbia University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization. Resources mentioned:The Experience Economy¸ by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975  Mass Customization, by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727  Work, Pray, Code, by Carolyn Chen: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Pray-Code-Becomes-Religion/dp/0691219087The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227 The World Experience Organization Summit: www.WorldXO.org Connect with Joe:https://transformationsbook.substack.com/ www.StrategicHorizons.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/ 

Business author Joe Pine joins the podcast to share how tourism leaders can leverage the power of experience to build successful companies.

B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design new ways of adding value to their economic offerings.   In 1999 Joe and his partner James H. Gilmore wrote the best-selling book ‘The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre & Every Business a Stage', which demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences - memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. Joe is also co-author of ‘Authenticity: What Consumers Really Want', which recognizes that in a world of increasingly paid-for experiences, people no longer accept the fake from the phony, but want the real from the genuine; and ‘Infinite Possibility: Creating Customer Value on the Digital Frontier', on how to use digital technology to stage experiences that fuse the real and the virtual.   In his speaking and teaching activities, Joe has addressed both the World Economic Forum and TED and is a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab. He has also taught at Penn State, Duke Corporate Education, the University of Minnesota, UCLA's Anderson Graduate School of Management, and the Harvard Design School. He serves on the editorial boards of Strategy & Leadership and Strategic Direction, is honorary editor of The International Journal of Mass Customization, and is a Senior Fellow with both the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he co-founded.   In this episode of Masters of Storytelling, Maya talks to Joe about the art of packaging ideas, the difference between fake and faux, and why if you treat your customers like the individuals that they are they will be your customers forever.   Join Joe on Substack while he works on his new book on the Transformation Economy: https://strategichorizons.com/the-transformation-economy-and-you/   For more information about Joe Pine, visit: www.strategichorizons.com/pine-and-gilmore/joe-pine/   For more information about BRC Imagination Arts, visit: www.brcweb.com

Joe Pine II is the author of The Experience Economy: Competing For Customer Time, Attention, and Money and Co-Founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. Joe Pine began programming computers in the 7th grade. He worked at IBM for 13 years and moved up to management and strategic roles within that company. Since the he has been a consultant, coach, expert and author on the topics discussed today.  Favorite success quote/mantra: "Go beyond goods and services to staging experiences and guiding transformations for each one of your individual customers." In this episode with Joe Pine, we will discuss: What is the Experience Economy? Today's sponsor: MarginEdge: Fluctuating food prices. Staffing challenges- Now more than ever you need to control costs to remain profitable. MarginEdge is a restaurant management software that lets you see your food and labor costs in real time. By automating your invoice processing and totally digitizing your back office, MarginEdge saves your team hours on paperwork and gives you instant insights to manage your prime costs. No contract. No setup fee. See how it works at marginedge.com/unstoppable. Restaurant Technologies the company that helps restaurants, “Control the kitchen chaos.” With RT's total oil management, you get: Dependable fresh bulk cooking oil delivery; Filtration + oil usage monitoring and reporting; Used cooking oil pick-up, and recycling; And say goodbye to messy, dangerous restaurant rendering tanks-yuck. RT's end-to-end cooking oils solution helps you manage your used cooking oil storage, collection, and recycling- conveniently, safely, and cleanly- with no upfront costs. Head to www.RTI-inc.com, and let them know the Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast sent you their way. Owner.com is the leading all-in-one platform for restaurant marketing. Owner.com powers everything from SEO-optimized websites, direct online ordering, automated email and text marketing, built-in loyalty programs, zero commission delivery, and branded mobile apps for your restaurant that integrate right into your POS. With Owner.com, there are no contracts, no hidden fees, and nothing to lose. Join thousands of restaurant owners using Owner.com to grow direct online sales, save thousands in third-party fees, and simplify their online presence all-in-one.Book a free demo today at owner.com/unstoppable and see why Owner.com is the #1-rated Restaurant Marketing Software. Restaurant Systems Pro - Join the 60-day Restaurant Systems Pro FREE TRAINING. This is something that has never been done before. This 60-day event is at no cost to you, but it is not for everyone. Fred Langley, CEO of Restaurant Systems Pro, will lead a group of restaurateurs through the Restaurant Systems Pro software and set up the systems for your restaurant. During the 60 days, Fred will walk you through the Restaurant Systems Pro Process and help you crush the following goals: Recipe Costing Cards; Guidance in your books for accounting; Cash controls; Sales Forecasting(With Accuracy); Checklists; Budgeting for the entire year; Scheduling for profit; More butts in seats and more… Click Here to learn more. Contact: Chech out the Strategic Horizons website Thanks for listening!