Work For Humans

If work is a product, and employees are customers of that product, then every company is a multi-sided business, one that must serve both consumers and workers. According to platform economist Andrei Hagiu, how companies design that experience, how they structure control, pricing, and participation, matters more than we realize. He has spent his career studying the world's most influential platforms, from Uber and Airbnb to Apple and Amazon. In this episode, Dart and Andrei explore what platform strategy can teach us about modern work design, why the “employee vs. contractor” debate is outdated, when it is efficient to give employees more control, and what “platform governance” means inside a company.Andrei Hagiu is a professor at Boston University's Questrom School of Business and a leading expert on multi-sided platforms. His research focuses on the strategic decisions that shape platform businesses, including pricing, control, and design.In this episode, Dart and Andrei discuss:- What Uber, Airbnb, and Upwork get right—and where they fail workers- The difference between a multi-sided business and a true platform- Why “employee vs. contractor” is a false dichotomy- How outdated laws are holding back the future of work- When giving workers more control is smart—and when it's not- What a Mexican cockfight reveals about platform pricing- How employers can learn from platforms to design better work- And other topics…Andrei Hagiu is a professor of Information Systems at Boston University's Questrom School of Business and one of the world's leading experts on multi-sided platforms. His research explores how platforms like Uber, Airbnb, and Apple make strategic decisions about pricing, control, and governance—and what those decisions mean for users, workers, and markets. Prior to BU, Andrei taught at MIT Sloan and Harvard Business School. He advises global companies on platform strategy and is the co-author of several foundational papers on platform economics. His work helps businesses, from tech startups to established firms, navigate the complex dynamics of serving multiple stakeholders at once.Resources Mentioned:Andrei Hagiu's website: https://andreihagiu.comConnect with Andrei:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-hagiu-0646751/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

At its best, work is co-created. It's not something companies hand out—it's something employees help build by showing up fully and taking risks. But that kind of courage requires something we don't talk about enough: audacity. Anne Marie Anderson has built her career on it. She's worked in 82 countries, broken ground as one of ESPN's first female sideline reporters, and navigated some of the most high-stakes environments in sports broadcasting. For Anne, audacity isn't about fearlessness—it's about dismantling doubt, trusting your voice, and building the kind of support system that helps you leap anyway. In this episode, Anne and Dart talk about what makes someone bold enough to raise their hand, speak up, or swing big, even when failure is possible. They explore the four barriers to audacity, the difference between recklessness and worth-it risk, and how to build the kind of support system that helps people take meaningful leaps at work.Anne Marie Anderson is a keynote speaker, leadership coach, and former sports broadcaster who has worked with ESPN, CBS, and NBC. She's the author of Cultivating Audacity, and helps individuals and teams unlock courageous performance through mindset, resilience, and presence.In this episode, Dart and Anne discuss:- The four barriers that hold people back from bold action- The difference between recklessness and worth-it risk- How to turn rejection into resilience- Why boldness is a habit, not a personality trait- The “front row” mindset and how to build one- The connection between belonging and courage- Lessons from high-pressure moments in sports and broadcasting- And other topics…Anne Marie Anderson is a keynote speaker, leadership coach, and former ESPN broadcaster. She's the author of Cultivating Audacity: Dismantle Doubt and Let Yourself Win. Anne helps individuals and teams build confidence, take bold risks, and lead with authenticity. Through her 25+ year career in sports media and performance coaching, she has worked in over 80 countries and brings deep experience in high-stakes communication and personal growth.Resources Mentioned:Cultivating Audacity, by Anne Marie Anderson: https://cultivatingaudacity.comLimitless, by Laura Gassner Otting: https://www.amazon.com/Limitless-Ignore-Everybody-Carve-your/dp/1940858763Connect with Anne:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-marie-anderson-3557ab39/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annemarieandersontv/Website: https://annemarieanderson.comWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When we talk about what makes a great leader, we tend to focus on confidence, decisiveness, and maybe even charisma. Less often do we talk about humility. And yet, humility, according to psychologist Dr. Simon Moss, may be the trait that unlocks the most growth, resilience, collaboration, and trust. In this episode, Dart and Simon talk about why humility isn't the opposite of confidence, how future clarity increases self-awareness, and how organizations can be structured to reward groundedness instead of ego.  Dr. Simon Moss is a psychologist and Dean of Graduate Research at the University of Wollongong. His research focuses on workplace behavior, ethical leadership, and the psychological conditions that promote wellbeing, performance, and integrity at work.In this episode, Dart and Simon discuss:- The difference between humility and insecurity- Why humble leaders often drive stronger performance- How clarity about the future shapes grounded leadership- The cultural conditions that reward narcissism- The relationship between time pressure and defensiveness- How to design humility into hiring, leadership, and culture- The mission of Radical Humility- And other topics…Dr. Simon Moss is a registered psychologist and the Dean of Graduate Research at the University of Wollongong. His research focuses on how organizational and government policies impact individual wellbeing, progress, and innovation. He has authored approximately 10 books and over 100 peer-reviewed papers, with a focus on workplace behavior, ethical leadership, and emotional intelligence.Simon is the founder of Radical Humility, a research initiative aimed at reducing narcissism in leadership and helping organizations cultivate grounded, human-centered cultures. His books include The Negative Side of Positive Thinking, Where Should I Work? and Emotional Intelligence: Journey to the Source.Resources Mentioned:Radical Humility: https://radical-humility.comConnect with Simon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-moss-5334944/Email: simon_moss@uow.edu.au  Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Oscar Trimboli has spent his life helping people hear what's not being said. As a listening expert and advisor to some of the world's largest companies, he's discovered a surprising truth: most of us only catch a fraction of what's being communicated. We hear the words, but miss the silences, emotion, and meaning beneath them. In this episode, Dart and Oscar explore the five levels of listening, what it takes to make someone feel truly seen, and how listening can be taught, measured, and embedded into teams.Oscar Trimboli is a speaker, leadership coach, and the author of How to Listen. He hosts the Apple award-winning podcast Deep Listening and has worked with clients such as Microsoft, AstraZeneca, and Cisco to improve communication and collaboration through listening.In this episode, Dart and Oscar discuss:- The five levels of listening- What it takes to make someone feel truly seen at work- Why most of us only hear 14% of what someone really means- The link between listening and action- How listening can reduce meetings and increase effectiveness- Why silence is the most powerful listening tool- What metaphors reveal about how people see the world- How to teach listening as a core leadership skill- And other topics…Oscar Trimboli is a speaker, author, and host of the Deep Listening podcast. His mission is to create 100 million deep listeners in the workplace. He's advised organizations including Microsoft, AstraZeneca, and HSBC on how to listen beyond the words and build cultures of understanding. His latest book, How to Listen, explores the science and practice of listening well—and why most of us do far less of it than we think.Resources Mentioned:How to Listen, by Oscar Trimboli: https://www.amazon.com/How-Listen-Discover-Hidden-Communication/dp/1774581914The Deep Listening Podcast: https://www.oscartrimboli.com/podcast/Listening Quiz (Discover your listening barriers): https://www.listeningquiz.comUnreasonable Hospitality, by Will Guidara: https://www.amazon.com/Unreasonable-Hospitality-author/dp/1529146828Don't Think of an Elephant! by George Lakoff, Howard Dean, & Don Hazen: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Think-Elephant-Values-Politics/dp/1931498717Connect with Oscar:Website: https://www.oscartrimboli.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oscartrimboli Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

What do the drafters of the U.S. Constitution, 19th-century industrialists, and a modern defense contractor have in common? According to economic sociologist Joseph Blasi, they all believed in one powerful idea: that democracy itself depends on ownership, and that ownership should be broadly shared. He argues that if we want work to truly work for humans, we need to think beyond job design to a more fundamental question: Who owns the value that work creates? In this episode, Dart and Joe tell the story of shared ownership, from 1700s fishing crews and America's founding ideals to an $8 billion worker-owned defense contractor, and what it means for the future of work.Joseph Blasi is a Distinguished Professor at the Rutgers School of Management and Labor Relations, where he studies the economic sociology of corporations, governance, and the workplace. He is director of the Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing and co-author of The Citizen's Share.In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:- How democracy depends on shared ownership- The surprising history of profit-sharing on cod fishing ships- How early U.S. policies supported worker ownership- Why ESOPs work and where they fall short- The role of tax policy in spreading employee ownership- What the founders envisioned for property and citizenship- How wealth distribution shapes democratic institutions- Does America have enough ownership to sustain democracy?- And other topics...Joseph Blasi is a Distinguished Professor at the School of Management and Labor Relations at Rutgers University. He directs the Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing and is a leading scholar in the economic sociology of corporations and the future of work. He is the co-author of several books, including The Citizen's Share, Shared Capitalism at Work, and In the Company of Owners. His research has shaped public policy on employee ownership and equity compensation in the U.S. and internationally.Resources Mentioned:The Citizen's Share: Reducing Inequality in the 21st Century, by Joseph R. Blasi, Richard B. Freeman, and Douglas L. Kruse: https://www.amazon.com/Citizens-Share-Reducing-Inequality-Century/dp/0300209339Rutgers Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing: https://smlr.rutgers.edu/content/institute-study-employee-ownership-and-profit-sharingESOP Association: https://www.esopassociation.org/Connect with Joseph:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-blasi-870102111/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

From an early age, John Truby knew that stories are not just something that happens on a page. Story is all around us. It structures how we interpret events, and even how we decide how to live.  For John, story forms explain the way the world works.John is a screenwriter and the founder and director of Truby's Writers Studio in Los Angeles, where he teaches novelists, screenwriters and TV writers the deep secrets of what makes a great story. His students have generated more than fifteen billion dollars at the box office, and studios like Sony Pictures, Disney, Fox, HBO and AMC routinely consult John on how to improve the stories they tell.In this replay episode, Dart and John discuss:- The 14 genres that categorize everyday life- Which genres produce the most fulfilling work- Sales as an action story- Business Analysis as detective story- Corporate culture as western - Career as coming of age and memoir- How the horror genre lurks in the shadows around every layoff- And more…John Truby is a screenwriter, director, screenwriting teacher, author, and Hollywood consultant for studios such as Disney, Sony Pictures, Fox, HBO, and AMC. He is the founder and director of Truby's Writers Studio and has worked on over 1,000 film scripts over the last 30 years.John created his 22-step outline for storytelling in his first book, The Anatomy of Story, teaching his techniques through global masterclasses to over 50,000 students worldwide since the start of his career. His latest book, The Anatomy of Genres, was released in 2022.Resources Mentioned:The Anatomy of Genres, by Jon Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227The Anatomy of Criticism, by Northrop Frye https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Criticism-Essays-Princeton-Classics/dp/0691202567Winning on Purpose, by Fred Reichheld: https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Purpose-Unbeatable-Strategy-Customers/dp/B09PC69XV3The Complete Aubrey/Maturin Novels, by Patrick O'Brian: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels-volumes/dp/039306011XCinema Paradiso (film), 1988Master and Commander (film), 2003Shane (film), 1953Glengarry Glen Ross (play), by David MametWorld Experience Organization: https://worldxo.org/Connect with John:Website: www.truby.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johntrubyWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

As a journalist, Nick Romeo has interviewed people doing remarkable things, from running worker-owned companies to redesigning gig work as public infrastructure. These experiences shaped his new book, The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy, and led him to one big insight: a better economy isn't just possible—it's already here. In this episode, Nick and Dart talk about the difference between market wages and living wages, why mainstream economics underestimates people, and how everything from co-ops to experiments in building gig work platforms as public utilities are reimagining the role of work in society right now.Nick Romeo is a journalist whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and The New York Times. He writes about policy, power, and the systems that shape how we live and work.In this episode, Dart and Nick discuss:- Why we need a new definition of a “living wage”- The power of co-ops, trusts, and employee ownership- How gig work can be redesigned to serve workers- What it means to design an economy around fairness- How ownership models shape the future of work- Why traditional economics misses what really matters- And other topics…Nick Romeo is a journalist and author who covers bold ideas in economics, policy, and philosophy. He's reported for The New Yorker on everything from Austria's job guarantee experiment to Spain's Mondragon cooperative and Nicholas Humphrey's theory of consciousness. His work has also appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, Rolling Stone, and Scientific American. He teaches at UC Berkeley's Graduate School of Journalism. His latest book, The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy, offers a roadmap for a fairer, more sustainable economy. Praised by The Guardian as “enlightening and inspiring” and called “brisk and sensible” by The Washington Post, it showcases real-world models that are already changing how we think about work, wages, and ownership.Resources Mentioned:The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy, by Nick Romeo: https://www.amazon.com/Alternative-How-Build-Just-Economy/dp/1541701593CORE Economics Project: https://www.core-econ.orgMIT Living Wage Calculator: https://livingwage.mit.edu/Well-Paid Maids: https://www.wellpaidmaids.com/Tax Justice Network: https://taxjustice.net/Connect with Nick:Website: https://www.nickromeowriter.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-romeo-b4486393/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

For centuries, the work ethic was used to justify inequality, but it also fueled a powerful movement for justice. In the final part of this series, Elizabeth Anderson and Dart Lindsley explore the progressive work ethic, a vision of labor rooted in dignity, equality, and shared prosperity. They trace how thinkers like Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, the Ricardian Socialists, and Karl Marx inspired reforms in education, labor rights, and social insurance, laying the foundation for social democracy. The conversation then turns to the neoliberal revival of the conservative work ethic, where leaders like Reagan and Thatcher redefined work to cut protections, concentrate power, and suppress wages. This isn't just history—it's a framework for how we treat work today.Elizabeth Anderson is a political philosopher known for her work on democracy, economic justice, and the ethics of work. Her latest book, Hijacked, explores how the work ethic was distorted by neoliberalism to undermine workers and how it can be reclaimed to support fairness and dignity in the workplace.In this episode, Dart and Elizabeth discuss:- How the progressive work ethic reshaped labor- Why Smith and Mill saw work as freedom, not control- How Marx and the Ricardian socialists fought for justice- The rise of worker protections and education- How neoliberalism shifted power to corporations- The fall of social democracy and its effects today- Reclaiming work as a source of dignity and fairness- And other topics…Professor Elizabeth Anderson specializes in moral and political philosophy, feminist theory, social epistemology, and the philosophy of economics. She holds the positions of Arthur F. Thurnau Professor, John Dewey Distinguished University Professor of Philosophy and Women's & Gender Studies, and Max Shaye Professor of Public Philosophy at the University of Michigan. A MacArthur “Genius” Fellow, Elizabeth has written extensively on democracy, labor, and economic justice, including her latest book, Hijacked: How Neoliberalism Turned the Work Ethic Against Workers and How Workers Can Take It Back. Resources Mentioned:Hijacked, by Elizabeth Anderson: https://www.amazon.com/Hijacked-Neoliberalism-against-Workers-Lectures/dp/1009275437The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith: https://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Nations-Adam-Smith/dp/1505577128Principles of Political Economy, by John Stuart Mill: https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Political-Economy-John-Stuart/dp/0678014531An Essay on the Principle of Population, by Thomas Malthus: https://www.amazon.com/Principle-Population-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0192837478Connect with Elizabeth:Profile: https://lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/people/faculty/eandersn.html Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

The work ethic began as a religious principle before evolving into an economic theory. But by the 18th and 19th centuries, it had taken on a new role: a justification for social inequality. Thinkers like Adam Smith and John Stuart Mill saw work as a path to dignity and opportunity, while economists like Thomas Malthus and Nassau Senior argued that keeping wages low and limiting aid would encourage self-reliance. This perspective had real consequences, especially during the Irish Potato Famine, when relief efforts were deliberately restricted under the belief that hardship would force people to work. In Part 2 of this series, Elizabeth and Dart explore how the work ethic shifted from a moral belief to an economic tool.In this episode, Dart and Elizabeth discuss:- How the work ethic became a tool for control- Work as dignity vs. work as discipline- The idea that poverty keeps workers in line- The fear of rising wages and worker power- The Irish Potato Famine as a test of forced labor policies- How unemployment became a moral failure- Reclaiming work as a source of empowerment- And other topics...Professor Elizabeth Anderson specializes in moral and political philosophy, feminist theory, social epistemology, and the philosophy of economics. She holds the positions of Arthur F. Thurnau Professor, John Dewey Distinguished University Professor of Philosophy and Women's & Gender Studies, and Max Shaye Professor of Public Philosophy at the University of Michigan. A MacArthur “Genius” Fellow, Elizabeth has written extensively on democracy, labor, and economic justice, including her latest book, Hijacked: How Neoliberalism Turned the Work Ethic Against Workers and How Workers Can Take It Back. Resources Mentioned:Hijacked, by Elizabeth Anderson:  https://www.amazon.com/Hijacked-Neoliberalism-against-Workers-Lectures/dp/1009275437The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith: https://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Nations-Adam-Smith/dp/1505577128Principles of Political Economy, by John Stuart Mill: https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Political-Economy-John-Stuart/dp/0678014531An Essay on the Principle of Population, by Thomas Malthus: https://www.amazon.com/Principle-Population-Oxford-Worlds-Classics/dp/0192837478Connect with Elizabeth:Profile: https://lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/people/faculty/eandersn.htmlWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Elizabeth Anderson is one of today's leading political philosophers and has spent years studying how the work ethic shapes our economy, society, and politics. In her latest book, Hijacked, she explores how hard work, a principle originally intended to advance the virtue of helping others, has been used by parts of society in ways that harm workers.This is the first of a three-part series tracing the history of the work ethic, from its religious roots in Martin Luther and the Reformation to its influence on modern policies like prison labor reform in California. In this episode, Elizabeth and Dart dig into the early history: how the Protestant Reformation shaped ideas about labor, how work became a moral obligation, and how these centuries-old ideas still shape our world today.In this episode, Dart and Elizabeth discuss:- How work became a divine duty- How Locke's labor theory shaped ideas of property and work- The work ethic as a moral weapon against the poor- The origins of blaming poverty on personal failure- Why we still measure human worth by productivity- How poor laws shaped early ideas of economic survival- The hidden influence of these ideas on work today- And other topics…Professor Elizabeth Anderson specializes in moral and political philosophy, feminist theory, social epistemology, and the philosophy of economics. She holds the positions of Arthur F. Thurnau Professor, John Dewey Distinguished University Professor of Philosophy and Women's & Gender Studies, and Max Shaye Professor of Public Philosophy at the University of Michigan. A MacArthur “Genius” Fellow, Elizabeth has written extensively on democracy, labor, and economic justice, including her latest book, Hijacked: How Neoliberalism Turned the Work Ethic Against Workers and How Workers Can Take It Back. Resources Mentioned:Hijacked, by Elizabeth Anderson:  https://www.amazon.com/Hijacked-Neoliberalism-against-Workers-Lectures/dp/1009275437The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, by Max Weber: https://www.amazon.com/Protestant-Ethic-Spirit-Capitalism/dp/1603866043Second Treatise of Government, by John Locke: https://www.amazon.com/Second-Treatise-Government-Joseph-Carrig/dp/0760760950Connect with Elizabeth:Profile: https://lsa.umich.edu/philosophy/people/faculty/eandersn.htmlWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Luke O'Mahoney is one of the leaders of the movement to reframe work as a product that every company sells to employees. In particular, Luke has gone deep into the implications of recognizing work as a subscription product, and brings an absolute wealth of ideas to bear on how to create the kind of work experience product that employees want to buy every day. People don't stay in jobs because of free snacks, ping pong tables, or flashy recruiting campaigns. They stay because work works for them.Luke is now a chief people officer - in recovery. As the founder of Sapienˣ, he helps organizations stop playing the short game and start designing work experiences that drive long-term retention and advocacy. In this episode, Dart and Luke discuss why hiring funnels are broken, what it really means to design work as a product, and how companies can build flywheels that continuously reengage employees. They also explore why transparency, not perks, keeps people invested in their roles.In this episode, Dart and Luke discuss:- Why work should be designed as a subscription product- Funnels vs. flywheels in hiring and retention- How bad recruiting leads to employee buyer's remorse- The role of delight in keeping employees engaged- How hiring attracts more hiring and losing creates churn- Why transparency in recruiting matters more than perks- What Luke hires his job to do for him- How to build work experiences people want to subscribe to- And other topics...Luke O'Mahoney is a people strategist and founder of Sapienˣ, where he helps companies design work experiences using product-led thinking. With a background in recruitment, talent operations, and startup leadership, he applies lessons from subscription business models to hiring and retention. Previously, he led people and operations at a high-growth startup, overseeing product, marketing, and GTM strategy alongside HR. His work focuses on building sustainable people strategies that drive engagement, retention, and advocacy.Resources Mentioned:Good to Great by Jim Collins: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Some-Companies-Others-ebook/dp/B0058DRUV6Built for People by Jessica Zwaan: https://www.amazon.com/Built-People-Experience-Management-Principles/dp/1398608025Connect with Luke:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukeomahoney Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

This is the third in a series of episodes with world-leading product management  experts about how we might build product management best practices into team leadership. Alex Komoroske spent years as either a Product Manager or Director of Product Management for platforms that most of us use every day: Chrome, Google Maps, Google Earth, and others. He then went on to lead corporate strategy at Stripe, another platform most of us use every day.  While at Google, Alex wrote an internal how-to called “Practical PM Stuff” that many Google PMs referred to as the Product Managers Bible.  It covered everything from basics like how to answer an email to esoterica like the difference between complexity and ambiguity or how Schelling points form in organizations. In this episode, Dart and Alex discuss:- Work as an ecosystem, not a machine- Indirect influence over direct control- How frameworks can kill creativity- The role of product management in work design- How companies stifle innovation- The power of riding momentum- Managers as curators, not controllers- Balancing autonomy and structure- Why great ideas bypass leadership- And other topics...Alex Komoroske is a product leader and systems thinker who specializes in platforms and ecosystems. Alex is known for his "Gardening Platforms" approach, which encourages guiding ecosystems toward greatness instead of controlling them. Now Co-CEO of Common Tools, he continues to explore how technology and organizations evolve.Resources Mentioned:Finite and Infinite Games, by James Carse: https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713The Stacy Barton conversation about Disney storytelling and work. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/immersive-experience-design-how-to-use-story-to-design/id1612743401?i=1000599527522 The Marty Cagan conversation about product management and work   https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-design-products-people-love-principles-and/id1612743401?i=1000668997003 The David Obstfeld conversation about brokering social networks and work https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/social-networks-the-1-predictor-of-economic/id1612743401?i=1000677462011 Connect with Alex:Website: https://www.komoroske.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-komoroske-6597336/Twitter: https://x.com/komoramaWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Most employees need some form of support to thrive at work, whether it's flexible hours to care for a loved one, mental health resources, or a quieter space to focus. But asking for help can feel risky. That silence holds people back and costs companies more than they realize. Charlotte Dales is trying to fix that. As the co-founder and CEO of Inclusively, Charlotte is building a platform that helps employees easily and privately access the support they need to do their best work. From mental health tools for sales teams to caregiving support for frontline workers, Inclusively is proving that when employees thrive, businesses thrive too.In this episode, Dart and Charlotte discuss:- Why everyone needs accommodations at work- The hidden costs of silence and burnout- What sales teams need to thrive- Small adjustments that unlock performance- Why benefits fall short and what people really need- Gen Z's push for personalized work- ERGs as engines of workplace change- Why supporting employees is smart business- And other topics...Charlotte Dales is the co-founder and CEO of Inclusively, a platform helping companies design personalized, inclusive work experiences. Starting with a focus on disability accommodations, Inclusively has expanded to offer “success enablers” for all employees, allowing businesses to match individual needs with existing resources. Before founding Inclusively, Charlotte co-founded CAKE Technologies, a mobile payment solution later acquired by American Express. She started her career in investment banking at Deutsche Bank in London.Resources Mentioned:Inclusively: https://www.inclusively.com/Connect with Charlotte:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlotte-dales-57868713/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When Josh Fryday's wife was evacuated from Japan after the 2011 Japan disaster, he stayed behind. As a Navy officer, he joined Operation Tomodachi, one of the largest humanitarian relief efforts in history. Working alongside people who thought differently, he learned that service brings people together around a common mission to accomplish amazing things.Now, as California's first-ever Secretary of Service, Josh is helping build the largest state-run service corps in the U.S. Through programs like College Corps and the Climate Corps, thousands of Californians are getting paid opportunities to serve their communities while gaining the critical skills and social networks they need to thrive in the workforce.In this episode, Dart and Josh discuss:- Service as the ultimate training ground for work- How College Corps is reshaping the leap from school to career- How social capital shapes careers- The soft skills crisis- The human edge AI will never replace- Fighting isolation block by block- What businesses can learn from teams with a mission- Why other states are copying California's service model- And other topics...Josh Fryday is California's Secretary of Service, leading the nation's most ambitious state service initiative under Governor Gavin Newsom. He created the College Corps and Climate Action Corps, paying thousands of young people to serve their communities while gaining critical career skills. A Navy veteran and former Mayor of Novato, Josh also led efforts to expand the California Earned Income Tax Credit, helping low-income families across the state. His work bridges service, workforce development, and civic engagement.Resources Mentioned:California Volunteers: https://californiavolunteers.ca.gov/College Corps: https://www.californiavolunteers.ca.gov/californiansforall-college-corps/Neighbor-to-Neighbor Initiative: https://www.californiavolunteers.ca.gov/neighbor-to-neighbor/Bowling Alone, by Robert Putnam: https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046Hardball: How Politics Is Played, by Chris Matthews: https://www.amazon.com/Hardball-Politics-Played-Chris-Matthews/dp/0684845598Eyes on the Prize documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092999/Connect with Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-fryday-b9625219/Twitter: https://x.com/JoshFrydayWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

At eight years old, Kate Griggs sat in a parent-teacher meeting and heard the words, “She's not very bright.” The school had already written her off. But she wasn't struggling because she lacked intelligence. She was struggling because the system wasn't designed for the way she thinks. Today, she's proving that dyslexia isn't a disadvantage, but a superpower that the world is only beginning to understand.As the founder of Made By Dyslexia, Kate is leading a global movement to challenge outdated perceptions and redefine dyslexia as a valuable way of thinking. Through education, advocacy, and corporate training, she's proving that dyslexic thinking fuels creativity, problem-solving, and big-picture vision—skills that businesses need to thrive.In this episode, Dart and Kate discuss:- The myth that dyslexia is a disability- Why dyslexic thinking is critical for the future of work- The link between dyslexia and entrepreneurship- How schools fail dyslexic students- Dyslexic strengths in problem-solving- The dyslexic skills AI can't replace- The viral Dyslexic Sperm Bank campaign- Rethinking intelligence beyond spelling- How hiring filters out dyslexic talent- 4 workplace fixes for neurodiversity- Changing education to unlock dyslexic potential- And other topics…Kate Griggs is the founder and CEO of Made By Dyslexia, a global charity dedicated to redefining how dyslexia is perceived and valued. She is an author, advocate, and thought leader in neurodiversity, working to ensure that every school and workplace recognizes and empowers dyslexic thinking. Her initiatives include free global training for educators and employers, high-impact awareness campaigns, and partnerships with major organizations like Microsoft and LinkedIn. She is also the author of This Is Dyslexia and hosts the Lessons in Dyslexic Thinking podcast.Resources Mentioned: This Is Dyslexia, by Kate Griggs: https://www.amazon.com/This-Dyslexia-Kate-Griggs/dp/1529149266Lessons in Dyslexic Thinking Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/lessons-in-dyslexic-thinking/id1695867325Made By Dyslexia: https://madebydyslexia.orgFree Microsoft Training, Empower Dyslexic Thinking in Schools: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/training/modules/empower-dyslexic-thinking-schoolsFree LinkedIn Course, Empowering Dyslexic Thinking at Work: https://www.linkedin.com/learning/empowering-dyslexic-thinking-at-workConnect with Kate:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-griggs-81797b16Twitter: https://x.com/kate_griggsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kategriggs_dyslexicthinking/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

With a career in a stable industry and a solid plan for retirement, Matthew Rutledge's father expected to retire on his own terms. But when he was suddenly laid off at 59, the financial impact was crushing. Watching his father struggle to bounce back at that stage of life made Matt realize how fragile retirement security really is, even for those who plan ahead. Now, he researches why millions of people are working longer but still struggling to retire and what we can do to fix it.Matthew Rutledge is a leading researcher on labor markets and retirement security at the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. His work examines how automation, job loss, and shifts in economic policy affect financial stability for older workers.In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:- The job loss that shook Matt's father- How pensions disappeared and left workers exposed- Are 401(k)s a risky bet or a safety net?- The brutal financial shock of widowhood- The long-term care crisis no one sees coming- Why Social Security won't be enough- Job benefits that keep workers stuck- What Europe does right about retirement- How career loyalty no longer pays off- How to safeguard your retirement savings- And other topics…Matthew S. Rutledge is an economist at the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College, where he focuses on retirement security and the shifting realities of work in the modern economy. His research has shed light on the long-term effects of economic downturns on Social Security and older workers, revealing hidden vulnerabilities in the retirement system. He has also explored how automation is pushing older workers into non-traditional jobs and reshaping career trajectories. Matt's work frequently appears in academic journals, policy reports, and media discussions on the future of retirement.Resources Mentioned:Nomadland: Surviving America in the Twenty-First Century, by Jessica Bruder: https://www.amazon.com/Nomadland-Surviving-America-Twenty-First-Century/dp/039324931XNomadland, directed by Chloé Zhao: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9770150/Connect with Matt:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-rutledge-84a4964/Twitter: https://twitter.com/matt_rutledge/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Howard Behar barely graduated high school and spent just two years in community college. Yet, he became a key leader at Starbucks soon after joining the company. From the start, he saw that Starbucks was not just about coffee but about people. With no formal business degree or global experience, he relied on persistence and a deep belief in servant leadership to guide him. He rose to president of Starbucks International and helped transform the brand from a small regional chain into a global powerhouse while ensuring its people-first culture remained at its core.Howard Behar is a longtime advocate of values-driven leadership. His book, It's Not About the Coffee, explores the principles that helped build Starbucks into a people-first company. He is also a sought-after speaker and mentor, helping leaders develop cultures of trust, integrity, and purpose.In this episode, Dart and Howard discuss:- How Starbucks scaled while staying true to its values- Servant leadership in action- Why leaders must listen to employees at every level- Persistence over credentials in leadership- Hardest lessons from leading an international brand- Why Howard rejects the word "customers"- The business case for dignity and respect- What companies get wrong about inclusion- And other topics…Howard Behar is a leadership expert, former Starbucks president, and a champion of servant leadership. Serving as president of Starbucks North America and Starbucks International, he played a key role in expanding Starbucks beyond the U.S., leading its first global expansion into Japan and later into Europe and Asia. His leadership was rooted in a deep belief that business is about serving people first. He wrote It's Not About the Coffee to share his insights on leadership, culture, and values-driven business. After retiring, he has dedicated his time to mentoring, public speaking, and serving on nonprofit and corporate boards.Resources Mentioned:It's Not About the Coffee, by Howard Behar: https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-About-Coffee-Starbucks/dp/1591842727The Magic Cup, by Howard Behar: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Cup-Business-Parable-Putting/dp/1455538973Servant Leadership, by Robert Greenleaf: https://www.amazon.com/Servant-Leadership-Legitimate-Greatness-Anniversary/dp/0809105543Good to Great, by Jim Collins: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Some-Companies-Others/dp/0066620996The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey: https://www.amazon.com/Habits-Highly-Effective-People-Powerful/dp/0743269519Built to Last by Jim Collins: https://www.amazon.com/Built-Last-Successful-Visionary-Essentials/dp/0060516402The Experience Economy by Joseph Pine and James GilmoreLeading Through by Kim Clark, Jonathan Clark, and Erin ClarkConnect with Howard:Phone: 206-972-7776Email: hb@howardbehar.comWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

For many people, the mention of government work conjures images of endless red tape and bureaucracy. In reality, though, federal employees are doing life-changing work every day. They fight hurricanes, advance cutting-edge research, protect children, and manage millions of acres of public lands. But with leadership turnover, political transitions, and cultural challenges, the system often struggles to attract and retain the talent it needs. Cameron Kober is working to change that.Cameron Kober is a Senior Manager at the Partnership for Public Service, where he leads initiatives like the Best Places to Work in the Federal Government rankings to help agencies improve leadership, culture, and engagement. With a background in teaching and a passion for public service, Cameron is dedicated to creating better workplaces for federal employees and supporting their mission to serve the public.In this episode, Dart and Cameron discuss:- What motivates federal employees to serve- How mission-driven work boosts engagement- The challenge of leadership turnover in government- Adapting to rapid political transitions- Improving workplaces through Best Places to Work rankings- Building trust and transparency in government- Leadership lessons from public service- And other topics…Cameron Kober is a Senior Manager at the Partnership for Public Service. He leads initiatives like the Best Places to Work in the Federal Government rankings, helping agencies improve culture, leadership, and engagement. Cameron also manages the Preparing to Lead program, which develops future federal leaders. Before joining the Partnership, he was a middle school teacher in Florida, where he discovered his passion for public service. He has written articles on employee engagement and leadership, offering tips to improve workplace culture.Resources mentioned:The Partnership for Public Service: https://ourpublicservice.org/Best Places to Work in the Federal Government Rankings: https://bestplacestowork.org/The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis: https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Risk-Michael-Lewis/dp/1324002646Connect with Cameron: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cameron-kober-b6672a55/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Sam Schlimper is the Managing Director at Randstad, the largest HR service provider in the world. Largely anchored in talent acquisition, she has over two decades of experience working with global organizations to link human potential, AI, and measurable outcomes. Over the years, Sam has witnessed countless leaders struggle with a trade-off mindset, treating business success as a zero-sum game. Determined to change this, she advocates for an alternative system where all stakeholders thrive—proving that mutual success drives sustainable business growth.Sam Schlimper is a global talent strategy leader currently serving as Managing Director at Randstad Enterprise. Prior to Randstad, she was the former head of Talent Acquisition at Barclays Plc.In this episode, Dart and Sam discuss:- What leaders should focus on vs. what they do - The major forces shaping Talent Acquisition- 3 main types of engagement with AI- Using pixelation to rethink job roles- Discovering the internal motivators of employees- Designing work for neurodiversity- And other topics…Sam Schlimper is a global talent strategy leader currently serving as Managing Director at Randstad Enterprise. With over two decades of experience, Sam has led various talent acquisition teams including being the former head of Talent Acquisition at Barclays Plc. Passionate about aligning people, processes, and technology, Sam partners with global organizations to unlock human potential and deliver measurable outcomes. Her leadership combines talent strategy with AI-driven insights to simplify processes, enhance engagement, and create sustainable organizational performance—all with a focus on fostering joy at work.Connect with Sam: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-schlimper-387861/ Randstad: https://www.randstadenterprise.com/insights/authors/sam-schlimper/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

As co-founder of The Design Gym consultancy, Andy Hagerman has spent over a decade tackling the challenge of aligning employee needs with business strategy—an issue that can make or break organizational success. Working with clients like Marriott, Cisco, HP, and Kellogg's, he has honed his craft by addressing complex organizational needs. In this episode, Andy unpacks a large case study with a major retailer, revealing how understanding the employee experience can create new opportunities for both business growth and workforce engagement.Andy Hagerman is the co-founder and managing partner of The Design Gym, a consultancy dedicated to work experience design and organizational transformation. The Design Gym has trained over 20k individuals and partnered with over 300 organizations, including Marriott, Kellogg's, Cisco, and HP. In this episode, Dart and Andy discuss:- Designing work experiences with The Design Gym - Andy's latest case study  - Exploring alternatives to product managers- Tools and principles for employee design research - Connecting employee life and work dynamics- Actionable insights from research and journey mapping- How retail experts drive business success- And other topics…Andy Hagerman is the co-founder and managing partner of The Design Gym, a consultancy dedicated to work experience design and organizational transformation. With a focus on co-creation, employee research, and delivering actionable insights, Andy helps organizations align employee experiences with the organization's strategic objectives. Over the past decade, his consultancy has trained over 20,000 individuals and partnered with over 300 organizations, including global leaders such as Marriott, Kellogg's, Cisco, and HP. Before founding The Design Gym, Andy served as a business and innovation strategist at Jump Associates, where he honed his expertise in developing forward-thinking strategies for complex challenges. Andy is also a former guest lecturer for NYU, Columbia University and Parsons, and has led breakout workshops at both TED and TEDMED conferences.Connect with Andy: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewhagerman/ www.thedesigngym.com Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Companies have long treated employees like children, micromanaging their tasks and monitoring every move, hoping to boost productivity. The problem is that this approach undermines trust and stifles innovation, parenting employees instead of supporting them. Sammy Burt, author of What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, is working to shift this mindset. She helps organizations embrace a “grown-up” approach that fosters autonomy, confidence, and more empowered, innovative workplaces— treating employees as the adults they are.Sammy Burt is a professional facilitator, systems coach, and leadership consultant at Farleigh Performance. Her upcoming book, What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, explores the complexities of adulthood and personal growth through insightful storytelling and practical guidance.In this episode, Dart and Sammy discuss:- How companies “parent” employees- Treating employees as adults at work- Distinctions between adults and grown-ups- Joy, grieving, and empathy in the workplace- The link between child-like behavior and innovation- Transactional analysis in the workplace- Adult development theory- And other topics…Sammy Burt is a professional facilitator, systems coach, and leadership consultant at Farleigh Performance. With a background in psychology and extensive experience in both corporate and creative industries, she specializes in empowering clients to build resilience, develop leadership skills, and navigate change with confidence. Sammy is also the author of the upcoming book What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, where she explores the complexities of adulthood and personal growth through insightful storytelling and practical guidance.Resources mentioned:What Is a Grown-Up Anyway, by Sammy Burt: https://www.yourbackpack.co.uk/whatisagrownupanyway Design for Belonging, by Susie Wise: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Belonging-Inclusion-Collaboration-Communities/dp/1984858033 Useful Not True, by Derek Sivers: https://www.amazon.com/Useful-Not-True-Derek-Sivers-ebook/dp/B0D86K4XF5 Connect with Sammy: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammyburt www.farleighperformance.com Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Award-winning entrepreneur and author Robert Glazer has identified a core issue in today's companies: the traditional “growth-at-all-costs” mindset is unsustainable. After a decade of relentless expansion, many companies are struggling to grow without burning out their employees along the way. Robert believes there is a better way—one that brings teams along on the growth journey to benefit employees and the company alike.  Robert Glazer is an award-winning executive, speaker, author, and the Founder and Chairman of Acceleration Partners. Under his leadership, his company earned accolades like Glassdoor's Employees' Choice Award and was named a Best Place to Work by Inc. and Fortune. Robert was also named Glassdoor's #2 Top CEO for small and medium companies in the U.S. In this episode, Dart and Robert discuss:- How Robert became #2 CEO on Glassdoor- Growing people vs. growing a company- The 4 attributes of transformational work- How core values shape leadership styles- The true origin of company culture- Building agency and resilience within teams- Overcoming learned helplessness at work- And other topics…Robert Glazer is the Founder and Chairman of Acceleration Partners, a global partner marketing agency that has consistently been recognized for its exceptional company culture and business performance. Under his leadership, the company earned accolades like Glassdoor's Employees' Choice Award and was named a Best Place to Work by Inc. and Fortune. Robert was also named Glassdoor's #2 Top CEO for small and medium companies in the U.S. A passionate advocate for personal and professional growth, Robert is the bestselling author of five books, including Elevate and Friday Forward. He is also a sought-after speaker and host of The Elevate Podcast, sharing insights on leadership, business, and building capacity. Through his writing and work, Robert inspires individuals and organizations to reach their full potential.Resources mentioned:Rethinking Two Weeks Notice, by Robert Glazer: https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Two-Weeks-Notice-Employees-ebook/dp/B0DGRZRXYY Elevate, by Robert Glazer: https://www.amazon.com/Elevate-Beyond-Limits-Success-Yourself/dp/1492691488 Connect with Robert: www.RobertGlazer.com Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Product managers are often used to setting goals and going after them with a single-minded focus, achieving success by pushing for results. If they approach the job like a mechanic—fixing, controlling, and managing tasks—they risk stifling innovation and limiting their team's potential. Without realizing it, managers can create an environment that suppresses growth. John Cutler, a seasoned product manager and researcher, believes that by adopting a service-oriented mindset, managers can instead empower their teams, foster growth, and ultimately drive better results for both the product and the people.John Cutler is the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses.In this episode, Dart and John discuss:- Balancing variety, complexity, and focus in design- Horizontal vs. vertical products- A service design mindset for managers- The traits of a great product manager- 3 major challenges that product managers face in software- Empathy and agency in management- And other topics…John Cutler is a seasoned product manager and user experience researcher. He excels at tackling complex problems and uncovering the "why" through qualitative and quantitative insights. Currently, John serves as the Head of Product at Dotwork, a strategic alignment platform that integrates metrics, insights, and workflows to drive better decision-making for businesses. Before joining Dotwork, he held pivotal roles, including Senior Director of Product Enablement at Toast and Head of Product Education at Amplitude, where he honed his expertise in product strategy and education.Resources mentioned:“How Capable Leaders Navigate Uncertainty and Ambiguity,” by John Cutler: https://cutlefish.substack.com/p/tbm-274-how-capable-leaders-navigateConnect with John:Substack: https://cutlefish.substack.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcutler/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

An estimated 1 billion people switch jobs every year, and the war for talent continues. Leaders and HR teams keep using the same hiring strategies as the average employee tenure decreases year after year. Companies aren't addressing the root issue: employees crave meaningful work, supportive colleagues, and growth opportunities. Unless companies transform their approach to employee satisfaction, they'll keep losing their best people—something Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn believe we can prevent. Ethan and Michael are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.In this episode, Dart, Ethan, and Michael discuss:- Major pushes and pulls driving job changes- Jobs to Be Done theory applied to work and career transitions- 4 Quests of job changes: why employees leave their jobs- Progress vs. progression at work- Experiences vs. features in job selection- 9 activities that companies can do to ensure strong employee fit- How to prototype and test potential career changes- And other topics…Ethan Bernstein and Michael Horn are co-authors of Job Moves, a book that uses the Jobs to Be Done theory to approach job selection as hiring a role to fulfill personal and professional goals, encouraging a more holistic perspective on career choices.Ethan Bernstein is the Edward W. Conard Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School. He specializes in the Organizational Behavior unit and focuses his research on the dynamics of workplace transparency, how organizational design impacts performance, and managing human capital. His work has been published in various academic journals and covered by The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Forbes, and Bloomberg, among others. Michael Horn is an influential author, speaker, and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. He is the co-founder and a distinguished fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute for Disruptive Innovation, a non-profit think tank. His work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Harvard Business Review, and NBC.Resources mentioned:“Why Employees Quit,” by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, & Bob Moesta: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quitJob Moves, by Ethan Bernstein, Michael Horn, and Bob Moesta: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581 Choosing College, by Michael Horn: https://www.amazon.com/Choosing-College-Learning-Decisions-Throughout/dp/1119570115 Connect with Ethan & Michael: www.jobmoves.comEthan's Google Scholar https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=jt4uBuUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=sraEthan's email - e@hbs.eduwww.michaelbhorn.com Michael's Substack: https://michaelbhorn.substack.com/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Moments before presenting at a large conference in Sydney, Gareth Flynn was confident in sharing his expertise on skills strategy. Suddenly, his friend Dart Lindsley tapped him on the shoulder and made a bold claim: skills strategies don't work. Faced with the unsettling possibility that his expertise might be flawed, Gareth began a research journey to uncover the truth. By engaging with both critics and advocates, he gained a fresh perspective on when and how skills should (or shouldn't) be prioritized in the workplace.Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. He is the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia's leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business. In this episode, Dart and Gareth discuss:- How companies approach skills — and when they fall short- Company motivation for investing in skills strategies - Insights from the critics of skills strategy- The difference between skills and capabilities- The taxonomy of skills- How AI is grouping people into social classes- Career drivers vs. life drivers- And other topics…Gareth Flynn is a writer, speaker, and talent and workforce expert with 25+ years of experience focused on strategy, skills, and leadership. As the founder and CEO of TQSolutions, Australia's leading talent and workforce strategy and solutions business, Gareth and his team have advised companies like GE, Philips, Australia Post, and Westpac, among others. Prior to founding TQSolutions, Gareth co-founded The Career Conversation, an early careers experience and engagement business whose client list includes companies like Bank of America and Deloitte. Resources mentioned:“Is the Juice Worth the Squeeze?” by Marc Effron: https://talentstrategygroup.com/is-the-juice-worth-the-squeeze/ Connect with Gareth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethflynn Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When Kim Clark was completing research for his doctoral dissertation, he compared two nearly identical cement plants located five miles apart. As an economist, he couldn't pinpoint why one plant was 70% more productive than the other. Determined to solve the mystery, he visited both plants and quickly found the answer: the more productive plant had a flat hierarchy and a collegial culture.  Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark are co-authors of the book Leading Through, which explores the transition from traditional leadership models to a more human-centered approach that integrates the soul, heart, and mind to create thriving organizations. In this episode, Dart, Kim, Jon, and Erin discuss:- Morality in business- The “power-over” paradigm that humans default to - Decoupling leadership from hierarchies - A new paradigm of leadership called “leading through”- How to activate the soul, heart, and mind in leadership- Using modularity to lead through work- And other topics…Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark are co-authors of the book Leading Through, which explores the transition from traditional leadership models to a more human-centered approach that integrates the soul, heart, and mind to create thriving organizations. Kim Clark is the NAC Distinguished Professor of Management at the BYU Marriott School of Business and former President of BYU-Idaho. He is also the former Dean of Faculty of the Harvard Business School. Within his roles, Kim focuses on the role of leaders in creating outstanding performance, modularity in design, and the interaction of technological change and competition in industry evolution. Jonathan Clark is an associate professor of management at UT San Antonio. Prior to UT, he served as executive director of the Master of Health Administration program at Penn State. His research has been published in the Academy of Management Journal, Health Affairs, and Leadership Quarterly, among others. Erin Clark is a managing director with Deloitte Consulting's Human Capital practice, where she specializes in helping clients improve performance, drive change, and create sustainable advantages through people. With over two decades of experience advising clients across industries, she believes strongly in the work of leadership to activate and unleash human potential. Resources mentioned:Leaning Through, by Kim, Jonathan, and Erin Clark: https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Through-Activating-Heart-Leadership-ebook/dp/B0CT49ZG1K Humanocracy, by Gary Hamel: https://www.amazon.com/Humanocracy-Creating-Organizations-Amazing-People-ebook/dp/B07B9HFSHX Connect with the Clark family:www.leadingthrough.co Kim Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-b-clark-19664920a/Jonathan Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-clark-3734616/ Erin Clark LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erineliseclark/   Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When Samantha Gadd began her career in HR, she quickly noticed traditional HR processes and practices often overlooked the people they were meant to serve. Struggling to find the “human”  in human resources, Samantha took a leap of faith and founded Humankind, an organization dedicated to putting humanity at the center of work. Today, Humankind is New Zealand's leading HR and employee experience (EX) consultancy, partnering with over 1,200 organizations to create more human-centered workplaces that prioritize employee well-being and drive business success.Samantha Gadd is a seasoned business leader and expert in employee experience (EX) with over a decade of industry expertise. She is the founder and CEO of Excellent and Founder and Director of Humankind.In this episode, Dart and Samantha discuss:- Samantha's journey from HR to EX- Who buys into EX in organizations- The origin and principles of the EX Manifesto- Links between workplace culture and employer brand- The EX Design School curriculum- Values of EX that reframe success metrics- The PREP model: purpose, relationship, enabling, and performance- Who is best suited for the EX curriculum - And other topics…Samantha Gadd is a seasoned business leader and expert in employee experience (EX) with over a decade of industry expertise. She is the founder and CEO of Excellent, an organization dedicated to transforming how organizations approach EX. She is also the Founder and Director of Humankind, New Zealand's leading HR and EX consultancy which has collaborated with over 1,000 organizations to design impactful employee experiences.As an EX expert, Samantha has spent over a decade helping high-profile clients transform workplace environments to enhance employee engagement and well-being. In 2022, she also led a group of 34 contributors to co-author The EX Manifesto, which defines key principles of EX design. Signed by leaders in over 30 countries, this document represents a global commitment to reimagining employee engagement and well-being.Resources mentioned:www.EXmanifesto.com The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine II: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978 Customers Included, by Phil Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Customers-Included-Transform-Products-Companies/dp/0979368111 University of Toronto, service design certificate: https://learn.utoronto.ca/programs-courses/certificates/service-design Connect with Samantha: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samanthagadd www.excellent.io Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

David Obstfeld, a tenured professor with over 15 years of research experience, saw a troubling trend at universities: first-generation college students were struggling to secure job opportunities upon graduation, leaving them at a disadvantage compared to their peers. His research revealed a clear link between economic background and access to social networks, with wealthier students gaining social capital that propelled their career success above those around them. It wasn't what they knew - it was who. This insight led David to establish the Social Capital Academy, an initiative designed to help underrepresented students build the social and cultural capital they need to succeed. Through mentoring, networking, and skill-building workshops, Obstfeld is transforming the trajectory of students' careers and helping bridge the gap in economic opportunity.David Obstfeld is an influential researcher, author, professor at CSU Fullerton, and the founder of the Social Capital Academy.In this episode, Dart and David discuss:- The evolution of network analysis- Social networks and the role of social capital- Why getting new things done drives company success- A knowledge-based view of the firm- The role of brokers and triads in social networks- Pros and cons of open vs. closed networks- Whether social skills are innate or developed- Perspective articulation- Scalable models that build social capital for underserved groups- And other topics…David Obstfeld is an Associate Professor of Management at California State University, Fullerton, and an influential researcher focused on social networks, innovation, and social capital. As the founder of the Social Capital Academy, Obstfeld works to empower students from underrepresented backgrounds by teaching them to leverage social and cultural capital to advance in their careers. His book, Getting New Things Done: Networks, Brokerage, and the Assembly of Innovative Action, examines how networks and brokerage drive creativity and organizational innovation. David received his A.B. from the University of Chicago and his PhD from the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business. He has served on the faculty of NYU's Stern School of Business and UC Irvine's Merage School of Business. His widely cited research has received major grants, including from the National Science Foundation, to further investigate organizational and social dynamics.Resources mentioned:Getting New Things Done, by David Obstfeld: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-New-Things-Done-Innovative/dp/0804760500 Connect with David: www.SocialCapitalAcademy.org www.DavidObstfeldPhd.com Email: dobstfeld@fullerton.edu Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Lucy Adams, a seasoned HR leader, has held senior roles in major organizations, including her recent position as HR Director at the BBC. Despite her success, she grew increasingly frustrated by HR's one-size-fits-all approach, which treated all employees under the same rigid policies. Determined to find a fresh perspective, Lucy founded Disruptive HR, an innovative HR agency that inspires leaders and HR professionals to approach their roles with renewed vision and energy.Lucy Adams is a keynote speaker, author, and founder and CEO of Disruptive HR. She guides HR teams and leaders from some of the world's top brands, speaking at events for Pepsico, HSBC, Google, and Emirates, among others. In this episode, Dart and Lucy discuss:- Challenging forces acting on the heads of talent/CPOs- Lucy's experience appearing before a congressional hearing - Emerging disruptions in HR - The EACH model (Employees as Adults, Consumers, and Human Beings)- 3 major benefits of the consumerization of the workplace- Differences between equity and equality at work- Humanizing performance management- And other topics…Lucy Adams is the founder and CEO of Disruptive HR, an agency on a mission to inspire leaders and HR professionals to approach their roles with renewed vision and energy. After working in high-level HR roles across sectors, including the Director of HR at BBC, Lucy wanted to help companies seek new ways to tackle old problems. She now guides HR teams and leaders from some of the world's top brands, speaking at events for Pepsico, HSBC, Google, Emirates, and many others. Lucy's latest best-selling book, HR Disrupted, discusses innovative approaches to transform traditional HR practices, challenge outdated norms, and adopt people-centered strategies to engage and empower employees in a rapidly changing workplace.  Resources mentioned:HR Disrupted, by Lucy Adams: https://www.amazon.com/HR-Disrupted-time-something-different/dp/1910056502 The Problem with Change, by Ashley Goodall: https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Change-Essential-Nature-Performance/dp/0316560278 Connect with Lucy: www.DisruptiveHR.com Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Ken Coleman has interviewed thousands of people on work, uncovering a common struggle: people start their careers wanting to make a difference but often lose that drive due to restrictive job expectations and rigid company rules. This disconnect leaves employees disengaged, impacting both personal fulfillment and company success. Ken believes companies thrive by flipping the question — focusing not on how to get the most out of employees, but on how employees can get the most out of their roles. Known as “America's Career Coach,” Ken continues to help employees and organizations rediscover purpose and achieve aligned success.Ken Coleman is a broadcaster, interviewer, and 3x best-selling author known for his expertise in career and personal development. As the co-host of The Ramsey Show and the executive coach host of The Ken Coleman Show, he has empowered thousands of people to advance their professional lives and grow their influence in the workplace.In this episode, Dart and Ken discuss:- 3 essential employee needs for company success- Key qualities of an impactful mentor- What we know about how humans are wired for work- Uniqueness as the foundation for greatness- 3 introspective questions to uncover work motivations- Career trends from Ken's decade-long research sample- Practical steps to create the career opportunities you want - And other topics…Ken Coleman is a broadcaster, interviewer, and best-selling author known for his expertise in career and personal development. As the co-host of The Ramsey Show and the executive coach host of The Ken Coleman Show, Ken empowers others to advance their professional lives and grow their influence in the workplace. His insights draw from personal experiences and thousands of interviews, serving as the foundation for his three best-selling books, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Proximity Principle, and Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Dubbed “America's Career Coach,” Ken has appeared on shows like Fox & Friends, Yahoo! Finance, and the Rachael Ray Show. He's a contributing writer for TheLadders.com and a popular speaker on personal development, career strategy, and leadership.Resources mentioned:Get Clear Career Assessment: Find the Work You're Wired to Do, by Ken Coleman: https://www.amazon.com/Get-Clear-Career-Assessment-Youre/dp/B0CSCY1CH5 The Proximity Principle, by Ken Coleman: https://www.amazon.com/Proximity-Principle-Proven-Strategy-Career/dp/0978562038  From Paycheck to Purpose, by Ken Coleman: https://www.amazon.com/Paycheck-Purpose-Clear-Path-Doing/dp/1942121539 StrengthsFinder 2.0, by Gallup: https://www.amazon.com/StrengthsFinder-2-0-Tom-Rath/dp/159562015X Essentialism, by Greg MckEown: https://www.amazon.com/Essentialism-Disciplined-Pursuit-Greg-McKeown/dp/0804137404 Connect with Ken: www.kencoleman.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kencoleman-/ Instagram: @kencolemanWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

As an international correspondent for NPR, Gregory Warner has lived and worked in some of the highest conflict areas in recent memory. He has climbed mountains with smugglers in Pakistan for This American Life, descended into illegal mineshafts in the Democratic Republic of Congo for Marketplace's "Working" series, and lugged his accordion across Afghanistan on the trail of the "Afghan Elvis" for Radiolab. On one occasion, while covering the terror attacks in Nairobi, he found himself in the middle of a coup. To save his own life, he had to hide in a large vase until the fighting subsided.Greg was named a Poynter Fellow in Journalism at Yale and received a Peabody Award for his journalism work. His podcast, Rough Translation, was named one of the New York Times's Top 10 podcasts of 2021. Last season, he ran a series of surprising stories about workplaces and work cultures around the world. Today, he joins us on Work For Humans to discuss those stories. In this episode, Dart and Gregory discuss:- The power of storytelling through a local's perspective- Cultural norms, societal pressures, and value clashes around the world- Chinese workers protesting work through slacking- How crisis, government, and our parents shape workplace culture- South Korea's work trend of adopting English first names- How countries brand themselves, and how this trickles down to work- The exportation of Silicon Valley's work culture- Jobs like truck driving that can push one into solitude- The danger of hearing from a narrow set of international voices- And other topics...Gregory Warner has been an international correspondent for NPR for over a decade. As the host and creator of the NPR podcast Rough Translation, he has lived around the world and in conflict zones like Afghanistan, Ukraine, and Rwanda. Gregory was named a Poynter Fellow in Journalism at Yale and has received various awards for his journalism work, including a Peabody Award. Rough Translation unpacks cultural norms, issues, and shifts close to home from a continent away. The podcast has received multiple awards from the Overseas Press Club and was named one of the New York Times's Top 10 podcasts of 2021.Resources Mentioned:Rough Translation podcast: https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510324/rough-translationSlackers@Work: A Song for the Exhausted podcast episode: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/31/1102281666/slackers-work-a-song-for-the-exhaustedOutliers, by Malcolm Gladwell: https://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930Connect with Gregory:Around the World in 85 Days substack: https://aroundtheworldin85days.substack.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/radiogrego/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

After 20 years of managing multimillion-dollar projects for Fortune 500 companies, Mike Hess faced a troubling reality: he was often labeled as the "token blind guy." Despite developing invaluable skills through his blindness, he was disturbed by the high unemployment rates among fellow disabled professionals. Determined to break down corporate stigma, he founded the Blind Institute of Technology. Now, Mike is showing organizations how to access the unmatched potential of disabled professionals, bridging the gap between talent and opportunity. Mike Hess is the Founder and Executive Director at the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT), a non-profit dedicated to improving employment opportunities for professionals with disabilities through accessible technology and inclusive hiring practices.  In this episode, Dart and Mike discuss:- The Blind Institute of Technology - Inclusive design and accessibility - Employment challenges for disabled professionals- Common misconceptions about disabilities in the workplace- The return on investment of hiring disabled employees- Bridging the digital divide and achieving digital equity- Generative AI for enhancing accessibility- Tackling social discomfort around disabilities- And other topics…Mike Hess is the Founder and Executive Director at the Blind Institute of Technology (BIT), a non-profit dedicated to improving employment opportunities for professionals with disabilities through accessible technology and inclusive hiring practices. As a blind tech veteran with over two decades of experience managing 7-figure projects for Fortune 500 companies, Mike helps organizations build inclusive workplaces that capitalize on the strengths of disabled professionals. His initiatives at BIT include workforce development programs and partnerships that enhance diversity, equity, and accessibility.Mike has been recognized in various media outlets and has received notable awards, including the 2017 Martin Luther King, Jr. Business Award and the 2019 GlobalMindED Inclusive Leader Award. His work with BIT has led to presentations at major tech conferences, and he co-hosts the podcast Choose Inclusion. Additionally, he developed EdgGuide, a system designed to enhance independent navigation in public spaces for blind and visually impaired individuals.Resources mentioned:Hidden Potential, by Mike Hess: https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Potential-Science-Achieving-Greater/dp/0593653149 Connect with Mike: www.blindIT.org Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com. 

The philosophy behind HR and our way of working predates most of the tools we use. While companies focus on sales and productivity, most neglect to measure one of the largest sources of value within the organization – the employee experience. Jessica Zwaan has made it her mission to teach executives and their companies how to transform the employee experience using product management principles, maximizing value for all stakeholders involved.Jessica Zwaan is the author of Built for People, the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby, and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others.In this episode, Dart and Jessica discuss:- The 3 things every company sells- Distinctions between people operations and human operations- Viewing work as a product and determining its value- Tracking the cost versus value of employees- The 3 aspects employees want out of their work- Value vs. volume when it comes to employees-  2 maxims of product management applicable to HR- And other topics…Jessica Zwaan is an author, speaker, and early-stage start-up executive. She is the current Chief Operating Officer of Whereby and a former COO advisor for clients like Soundcloud, Talentful, and Bolt, among others. Her latest book, Built for People, helps teach organizations and leadership how to transform the employee experience using product management principles.With a background in operations, people, and talent, Jessica's work has spanned across three continents. Jessica holds a First-Class Honours law degree from the University of Law in London. She is an international panelist and speaker and also hosts the podcast “There's This Thing at Work.”Resources mentioned:Built for People, by Jessica Zwaan: https://www.amazon.com/Built-People-Experience-Management-Principles/dp/1398608025The Book of the Courtier, by Baldesar Castiglione: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Courtier-Baldesar-Castiglione/dp/1519086954The Experience Economy, by Joseph Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, by Thomas Kuhn: https://www.amazon.com/Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-50th-Anniversary/dp/0226458121The Good Enough Job, by Simone Stolzoff: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Enough-Job-Reclaiming-Life/dp/059353896XConnect with Jessica:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicamayzwaan/www.jessicamayzwaan.com Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

In a rapidly evolving job market shaped by post-pandemic shifts, AI advancements, and the rise of remote work, competition for good jobs is fiercer than ever. Standing out and strategically positioning yourself is no longer optional – it's essential.For over 25 years, Phil Terry has been helping people build exceptional companies and careers. As the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, a consultancy that fosters knowledge-sharing among senior executives, Phil leverages his experience coaching leaders at top firms to guide individuals in navigating today's complex job market. His approach centers on applying product management principles to build intentional, sustainable career paths. Topics Include:- Applying product management to job searching- The importance of candidate market fit- How to conduct a listening tour for feedback- Building a support network with job search councils- Emotional challenges of the job search process- Strategies for negotiating job offers- Understanding psychological safety in job hunting- Avoiding "rebound jobs" and finding the right role- Phil's experiences coaching senior executives at Google and Amazon- The impact of gratitude and vulnerability on the job search - And other topics...Phil Terry is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, a consultancy that helps senior executives share knowledge and solve challenges in a collaborative, cross-company environment. With over two decades of experience in coaching leaders at top companies like Google and Amazon, Phil is a pioneer in customer experience and product management. His latest book, Never Search Alone, applies his expertise in product management to career development, encouraging job seekers to approach their careers strategically, as if they were marketing a product.Resources Mentioned:Never Search Alone by Phil Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Search-Alone-Seekers-Playbook/dp/B0B9Q9YDQ5Customers Included by Phil Terry: https://www.amazon.com/Customers-Included-Transform-Products-Companies/dp/0979368111 Connect with Phyl:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/phylterry/Website: phyl.orgWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Joe Pine was the first to identify many of the trends that have animated business for the last two decades, including the trend away from simple mass production to mass customization, and the emergence of the experience economy. Today, Joe joins us to discuss how those trends are influencing the future of work, and how companies might mass-customize experiences for employees.Joe Pine is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and startups. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:- The progression of economic value- The Experience Economy- The current transformation economy- How to customize a customer's experience and promote transformation- Brand authenticity- Focusing on value vs. price- The management style we need to create value- How to revitalize a business- The importance of company exploration and innovation- And more…Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. Joe is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and a lecturer at Columbia University. His best-selling book, The Experience Economy, has been published in 15 languages and used as a company guide for over 20 years.Joe serves as a Senior Fellow with the Design Futures Council and the European Centre for the Experience Economy. He previously served as a Visiting Scholar with the MIT Design Lab, a professor at Duke University, and a manager with IBM. Joe has been featured in The Wall Street Journal and Harvard Business Review. His other published works include Infinite Possibility, Authenticity, and Mass Customization.Resources Mentioned:The Experience Economy, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-New-Preface-Authors/dp/1633697975Mass Customization, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Mass-Customization-Frontier-Business-Competition/dp/0875843727Authenticity, by Joe Pine: https://www.amazon.com/Authenticity-What-Consumers-Really-Want/dp/1591391458Travel that Can Change Your Life, by Jeffrey Kotler: www.amazon.com/Travel-That-Change-Your-Life/dp/0787909416Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

AI is at the forefront of work, tech, and global development – and it's here to stay. While there are ongoing dilemmas and fears surrounding the future of AI, renowned neuroscientist Vivienne Ming sees it differently. For over a decade, she has harnessed AI to enhance human potential, designing systems to treat her son's diabetes, predict manic episodes in those with bipolar disorder, and reunite orphaned refugees with extended family members, among many other initiatives. Vivienne has emerged not only as a leading scientist in the field but also as a passionate advocate for using AI as a powerful tool to unlock human ability.Vivienne Ming is a renowned theoretical neuroscientist and AI expert. She is the co-founder and CEO of the think tank Socos Labs, as well as chief scientist at Dionysus Digital Health and The Human Trust. Her research has been showcased on TEDx, The Financial Times, The Atlantic, the New York Times, BBC Radio 4, and NPR. In this episode, Dart and Vivienne discuss:- Vivienne's diverse background in AI and research - AI's qualitative advantages over humans today- How AI can predict and influence individual success- Metalearning and perspective taking- Building stronger teams and social networks with AI- The moral limits of markets- How minority opinions can reshape collective market intelligence - And other topics…Vivienne Ming is a renowned theoretical neuroscientist and artificial intelligence expert. As the co-founder and CEO of the think tank Socos Labs, she consults on AI, neuroscience, and education reform, exploring the future of human potential. She also serves as chief scientist at Dionysus Digital Health and The Human Trust. Her AI inventions have launched multiple companies and nonprofits, all centered on unlocking human potential. Vivienne's research has been showcased on TEDx, The Financial Times, The Atlantic, the New York Times, BBC Radio 4, and NPR. Vivienne received her B.S. in cognitive neuroscience from the University of California at San Diego and her M.S. and PhD in Psychology at Carnegie Mellon University. She then held a postdoctoral fellowship at Stanford and UC Berkeley, where she later joined as a research scientist and visiting scholar. Vivienne sits on boards of numerous companies and nonprofits including StartOut, The Palm Center, Cornerstone Capital, Platypus Institute, Shiftgig, Zoic Capital, and HUMM.Resources mentioned:How to Robot-Proof Your Kids, by Vivienne Ming: https://academy.socos.org/ Geek Heresy, by Kentaro Toyama: https://www.amazon.com/Geek-Heresy-Rescuing-Social-Technology/dp/161039528X Connect with Vivienne:www.socos.org www.dionysushealth.comwww.optoceutics.comwww.thehumantrust.org “The Tax on Being Different” video: https://glginsights.com/videos/decisions-in-hiring/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

If there's one thing the pandemic taught us, it's that market disruptions can spell disaster for unprepared companies. Aaron McEwan, a behavioral scientist and futurist, is at the forefront of this challenge. As part of Gartner's Rapid Response Market Sensing Team, he specializes in identifying workplace shifts before they happen. In this episode, Aaron shares how he leverages insights from his career and lessons learned during the pandemic to identify and tackle workplace shifts – before they happen. Aaron McEwan is a prominent behavioral scientist, psychologist, and futurist based in Australia. He currently is the Vice President of Research & Advisory for Gartner's HR Practice, providing strategic insights on talent management and the future of work to leading global companies.  In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss:- Gartner's Rapid Response Market Sensing Team- Market sensing and identifying trends- The largest market challenges since the pandemic- Social movements that are starting to bubble- Social media-driven employee activism- Early detection of workforce disruptions - Rapid responses to opportunities and threats- Signals of reemergent labor activism- And other topics…Aaron McEwan is a prominent behavioral scientist, psychologist, and futurist based in Australia. He currently serves as the Vice President of Research & Advisory for Gartner's HR Practice, providing strategic insights on talent management and the future of work to leading global companies. Recognized as a Top 100 Global HR Influencer, Aaron emphasizes evidence-based practices that help organizations optimize performance and adapt to changing work environments.Aaron is also a Fellow of the Australian Human Resources Institute and an Associate of Macquarie University's Centre for Workforce Futures. He has lectured at several universities, including the University of NSW and the University of Queensland. His interdisciplinary approach often draws from his background in music, where he performed and wrote original pieces, applying lessons from that experience to leadership and teamwork in organizational settings. Resources mentioned:The Black Swan, by Nassim Nicholas Taleb: https://www.amazon.com/Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness-Fragility/dp/081297381XConnect with Aaron:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronmcewan Smarter with Gartner: https://www.gartner.com.au/en/smarterwithgartner 

As AI and automation reshape the workforce, the traditional way we pass down critical skills is under threat. Junior workers are losing the opportunity to learn directly from experienced mentors, putting essential human abilities at risk. Matt Beane, a leading researcher in machine intelligence, has spent a decade investigating this problem. In his latest book, The Skill Code, Beane uncovers the hidden dynamics of expert-novice relationships and explains why preserving these bonds is crucial for thriving in a tech-driven world.Matt Beane is an assistant professor at UC Santa Barbara, known for his groundbreaking research on the impact of robotics in the workplace. He holds a PhD from MIT and has delivered a TED talk with over 1.8 million views. His latest book, The Skill Code, highlights the importance and process of preserving human skills in the age of AI and automation.In this episode, Dart and Matt discuss:- The impact of tech on workplace learning- Technology management programs- Whether tech shapes behavior or vice versa- Using tech for scale development- The difference between knowledge and skill- Challenges in developing skills in tech-driven environments- Using positive deviance to grow at work- Human capital development's connection to productivity- And other topics…Matt Beane is an author and assistant professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, in the Technology Management Program. He is known for his pioneering work on how robotics are transforming the workplace, particularly in the evolving relationship between humans and machines. His latest book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines, explores how technology is reshaping the workforce and highlights the importance of preserving essential human skills as automation and AI become more prevalent.Matt holds both a PhD and a Master's in Management Research from MIT's Sloan School of Management and is also a Digital Fellow at both Stanford and MIT. His work delves into how organizations and individuals adapt to intelligent technologies, focusing on sectors like healthcare and manufacturing. His research on robotic surgery was published in 2019 in Administrative Science Quarterly and Harvard Business Review, and his related TED talk has over 1.8 million views. Matt is also a regular contributor to popular outlets such as Wired, MIT's Technology Review, TechCrunch, Forbes, and Robohub.Resources mentioned:The Skill Code, by Matt Beane: https://www.amazon.com/Skill-Code-Ability-Intelligent-Machines/dp/0063337797 “Don't Let AI Dumb You Down,” by Matt Beane: https://www.wildworldofwork.org/p/dont-let-ai-dumb-you-down How Buildings Learn, by Stewart Brand: https://www.amazon.com/How-Buildings-Learn-Happens-Theyre/dp/0140139966 Connect with Matt:www.MattBeane.comwww.TheSkillCodeBook.comX: @mattbeanewww.SkillBench.com 

On Work for Humans, we explore what people truly seek from their work. A recurring theme we have found is the desire for puzzles to solve. In today's episode, we chat with a puzzle expert and creator to uncover the elements that make a compelling puzzle and how we can apply these principles to create work that people genuinely love.Jasen Robillard's career has evolved from engineer to product specialist, geological mapper, and now, jigsaw puzzle creator. He is the founder of Stumpcraft, a Canadian jigsaw company that has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.In this episode, Dart and Jasen discuss:- The definition and attributes of a great puzzle- How Jasen started StumpCraft- The components of a compelling puzzle- Puzzles, problems, and messes at work- Work as an empathy playground- Puzzle creation constraints - Puzzles as part of the transformation economy- And other topics…Jasen Robillard is the founder of Stumpcraft, a premium wooden jigsaw puzzle company based in Canada. With a passion for intricate design and craftsmanship, Stumpcraft locally crafts each puzzle from sustainably sourced wood, incorporating unique, laser-cut pieces of Canadian fine art to challenge and delight puzzle enthusiasts. Jasen's career journey led him from engineer to product specialist to geological mapping and, now, to jigsaw puzzles. Stumpcraft has gained recognition for its high-quality, artisanal puzzles, with Jasen's creative vision at the core of the company's success.Resources mentioned:Tools for Thinking, by Michael Pidd: https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Thinking-Modelling-Management-Science/dp/0470721421 “C.O.R.E. Attributes,” by Justin Gary: https://justingarydesign.substack.com/p/justin-gary-core-attributes Connect with Jasen:www.StumpCraft.com Substack: https://substack.com/@jasenrobillard 

From managing crises to ensuring compliance and safety, HR professionals are often the first responders in the workplace. Julie Turney, an HR specialist with over 15 years in the field, found herself so focused on supporting others that she became depleted and burned out. Drawing from her journey and research, Julie now dedicates her work to creating positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma. Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc. In this episode, Dart and Julie discuss:- The major challenges of HR professionals- HR as first responders in the workplace- Self-care and support for HR professionals- Things all HR employees need to know - Self-forgiveness in the field - The balance between HR, leadership, employees, and regulations- Julie's recommendation for improving HR contracts- And other topics…Julie Turney is an HR specialist, TEDx Speaker, author, and Founder and CEO of HRatHeart Consulting Inc. With over 15 years of HR experience, she is passionate about building positive workplace cultures and fostering employee engagement, especially in the face of burnout, compassion fatigue, and vicarious trauma. Julie focuses on talent management, employee development, and organizational change. Known for her ability to blend empathetic leadership with strategic HR practices, she helps companies navigate transitions while improving overall employee satisfaction. Resources mentioned:Confessions of an HR Pro, by Julie Turney: https://www.amazon.com/-/he/Julie-Turney/dp/0578905825 HR Sound Off podcastInterview - Julie Turney X The Pivot SeriesConnect with Julie:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamjulieturney www.HRatHeart.com  

Marty Cagan was ten years into his engineering career when he began questioning the purpose of his work. Frustrated with the products he was building, he wondered why they were necessary—but soon, he realized that asking "why" was the job of the product manager, not the engineer. So, he became one. Not just any product manager, but a leading expert in the field. Now, through Silicon Valley Product Group, Marty helps companies transform the work behind their products to build meaningful results. Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). With decades of experience, he has held leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP.In this episode, Dart and Marty discuss:- Key elements of top product teams- Best practices in product management- Capabilities and responsibilities of a product manager- The core principles of product culture- How processes can kill companies- 3 non-negotiables for product managers- And other topics…Marty Cagan is a well-known product management expert, author, and partner at Silicon Valley Product Group (SVPG). He is best known for his book Inspired: How to Create Products Customers Love, which is widely regarded as a key resource in product management. With decades of experience, including leadership roles at companies like eBay, Netscape Communications, and HP, Marty has a deep understanding of what it takes to build successful products. He is recognized for his emphasis on creating empowered product teams, focusing on solving customer problems, and building a strong product culture.Marty is a graduate of the University of California at Santa Cruz and the Stanford University Executive Institute. His latest book, Transformed: Moving to the Product Operating Model, explores how successful product organizations operate and provides insights on transforming companies into ones that consistently deliver great products. Resources mentioned:Transformed, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Transformed-Becoming-Product-Driven-Company-Silicon/dp/1119697336Empowered, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Empowered-Ordinary-People-Extraordinary-Products/dp/B08MV6VRGY  Inspired, by Marty Cagan: https://www.amazon.com/Inspired-Marty-Cagan-audiobook/dp/B07BDQVC45 The Song of Significance, by Seth Godin: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Significance-New-Manifesto-Teams/dp/B0BWPSHCXS Loved, by Martina Lauchengco: https://www.amazon.com/Loved-Rethink-Marketing-Tech-Products/dp/B09WFRB5TX Connect with Marty:www.svpg.com 

Work for Humans has long advocated for employees to be seen as customers, but we've faced resistance from traditional programs that churn out MBAs focused on profits and the bottom line. This perspective overlooks a critical point: companies risk losing money and innovation if they don't put employees at the center of their decisions. In a surprising turn, author and professor Stephan Meier has partnered with Columbia Business School to release The Employee Advantage. Through detailed case studies, this book demonstrates how embracing an employee-centric approach leads to superior business outcomes.Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School. In this episode, Dart and Stephan discuss:- Key drivers of customer and employee centricity- The reasons behind rising customer expectations- Leadership mindsets for employee well-being - Customers vs. employees in earnings calls - Case studies of employee-centric models- Lessons from employee segmentation- The need for “just-right tasks” in the workplace- The role of the manager in an employee-customer model- And other topics…Stephan Meier is a leading global expert at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. He is currently the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy and Chair of the Management Division at Columbia Business School. Stephan is also the author of The Employee Advantage, which demonstrates how employee-centric companies drive superior business outcomes. With a master's degree in history, economics, and political science, and a doctorate from the University of Zurich, Stephan's research has been published in journals such as the American Economic Review and Management Science, as well as outlets like the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Bloomberg, and BBC. Prior to his tenure at Columbia, he was the first senior economist for the Center for Behavioral Economics and Decision-Making at the Federal Reserve Bank. Resources mentioned:The Employee Advantage, by Stephan Meier: https://www.amazon.com/Employee-Advantage-Putting-Workers-Business-ebook/dp/B0CTZCM238 Connect with Stephan:www.StephanMeier.com 

Work for Humans has always been about designing with the employee in mind, but many designers mistakenly focus on objects rather than the actions those objects should create. This leads to falling back on traditional roles and routines when there is actually more choice out there. Inspired by the power of designing for action instead of things, WFH connected with Stephanie Goia and Melanie Kahl—two design strategists dedicated to human-centered organizational design. Together, they're creating a pattern language library, offering a resource that encourages more choice and innovation to all designers.In this episode, Dart, Stephanie, and Melanie discuss:- Human-centered organizational design practice- Pattern language in design- Designing for verbs instead of things- What is designable and what isn't- 5 key categories of pattern language- Design lessons from education and biological systems- Holding spaces for participatory design- And other topics…Stephanie Goia is a partner and lead design strategist at Future Work Design, a firm dedicated to transforming workplaces through innovative design. With over 15 years of experience in consulting and education, she specializes in organizational design and human-centered practices. Stephanie also serves as the Lab Director of EitherOrg and as an Executive MBA instructor at the University of Oregon, where she furthers her commitment to participatory design and systemic change. Melanie Kahl is an innovation leader and strategist with over 15 years of experience designing programs and spaces that foster human flourishing. She previously launched Meta's first Community-in-Residence program and led projects with global organizations like the Gates Foundation and USAID. Melanie holds a degree from Northwestern University and is an adjunct professor at the School of Visual Arts and the Copenhagen Institute of Interaction Design.Resources mentioned:Seeing Like a State, by James Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-like-State-Certain-Condition/dp/0300078153 A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Language-Buildings-Construction-Environmental/dp/0195019199 Dark Matter Labs: https://darkmatterlabs.org/ The Edge of the Sea, by Rachel Carson: https://www.amazon.com/Edge-Sea-Rachel-Carson/dp/0395924960 Connect with Stephanie & Melanie:www.futurework.designwww.eitherorg.orgStephanie LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniegioia/www.MelanieKahl.comMelanie's Instagram: @melanie_kahlMelanie's X: @melaniekahl

Architecture has traditionally centered on buildings, often overlooking the most crucial element—people. Urban designer Blaine Merker sees this as a missed opportunity. As Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at the Gehl research consultancy, Blaine aims to shift the industry's focus. By guiding companies to adopt community-centered design practices, he's working to transform urban spaces, ensuring that people—not just structures—are at the heart of every project.In this episode, Dart, Blaine, and Alice discuss:- The origin and mission of Gehl- Shaping behavior through empirical evidence and design- Prioritizing people over buildings in architecture- In-between spaces and why companies should invest in them- The norms created by a space- Designing for serendipity, connection, and collaboration- Integrating ecology into corporate landscapes- And other topics…Blaine Merker is Partner, Director, and Head of Climate Action at Gehl, an urban design and research consultancy dedicated to enhancing urban environments for everyday people. At Gehl, Blaine leads the company's private sector work, focusing on helping companies be good urban citizens. During his career, he has managed public and institutional portfolios, taught at the University of California, Berkeley, and led a landscape architectural practice. Prior to Gehl, Blaine was partner and founder of Rebar Art and Design Studio, where he combined art, design, and activism to transform urban spaces.Alice Katter is a Work Culture & Community Designer and Consultant and founder of Out of Office Network, a pioneering research and design lab and hub. Resources mentioned:Rebar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar_Art_and_Design_Studio Insurgent Public Space: https://www.routledge.com/Insurgent-Public-Space-Guerrilla-Urbanism-and-the-Remaking-of-Contemporary-Cities/Hou/p/book/9780415779661 Rebar's Absurd Tactics in Generous Urbanism: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/mono/10.4324/9780203093009-10/taking-place-rebar-absurd-tactics-generous-urbanism-jeffrey-hou Life Between Buildings, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Between-Buildings-Using-Public/dp/1597268275Immersion, by Paul Zak: https://www.amazon.com/Immersion-Science-Extraordinary-Source-Happiness/dp/1544531958How to Study Public Life, by Jan Gehl: https://www.amazon.com/How-Study-Public-Life-Gehl/dp/1610914236 Paved Paradise, by Henry Graber: https://www.amazon.com/Paved-Paradise-Parking-Explains-World/dp/B0BBXGL7QT/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1 Connect with Blaine:www.GehlPeople.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blainemerker/ 

Remote, hybrid, and from-home work options are here to stay, but there's more to work flexibility than just location. Leadership advisor and author Brian Elliott has found that most employees want more control over their work, from when they work to how their success is measured; It's time to redefine and fully embrace flexible work. In his recent book, How the Future Works, Brian provides a blueprint for using flexible work to truly unlock individual potential. Brian Elliott has over two decades of experience successfully leading teams at companies like Google and Slack. He is a LinkedIn Top Voice, one of Forbes' “Future of Work 50,” and the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work.In this episode, Dart and Brian discuss:- Changing leaders' experiences around distributed work- Defining the purpose behind a company's work style- Strategies to level the playing field for employees- Measuring outcomes based on teamwork- How to create a culture of connection from any location- Prioritizing schedule flexibility over geographic flexibility- Demographic shifts in remote work- And other topics…Brian Elliott is an esteemed author, speaker, and leadership advisor, currently serving as the Executive Leader of Future Forum, a think tank that focuses on the future of work. With almost three decades of experience in leadership, he has successfully led teams and built companies both as a startup CEO and as an executive at Google and Slack.Brian holds degrees from Northwestern University and Harvard Business School. He is the bestselling author of How the Future Works, a LinkedIn Top Voice, and has been recognized as one of Forbes' “Future of Work 50.” His insights have been featured in publications such as Fortune, Harvard Business Review, and Time.Resources mentioned:How the Future Works, by Brian Elliott: https://www.amazon.com/How-Future-Works-Leading-Flexible-ebook/dp/B09YN2J6XZ Connect with Brian:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belliott/ www.FutureForum.com 

Hundreds of thousands of college graduates were promised that more learning meant more earning – but they're now facing a harsh new reality. AI, outsourcing, and a shifting economy have created an oversupply of educated workers, leading to widespread feelings of betrayal and crushing student debt. Human capital is not delivering on its promise. Phillip Brown, a distinguished sociologist, author, and professor, is on a mission to redefine human capital in an age of new technology and limited quality jobs. In his latest book, Death to Human Capital, he calls for a new paradigm to rethink how we view labor supply, demand, and returns. Phillip is a Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. He has authored 17 books and more than 100 publications, critically examining the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale.In this episode, Dart and Phil discuss:- The rise and false promise of human capital theory- The oversupply of graduates and economic betrayal- Outsourcing knowledge work and the impact of AI- Labor scarcity vs. job scarcity- The definition of a quality job- The new paradigm- Rethinking labor supply, demand, and returns- Phil's specific policy recommendations- And other topics…Phillip Brown is a British sociologist, author, and Distinguished Research Professor at Cardiff University. With over three decades of experience, his work critically examines the relationship between education, social mobility, and economic inequality on a global scale. His latest book, The Death of Human Capital, argues against the false promise of human capital theory and redefines it in the context of AI, outsourcing, and job quality.Phillip holds a Ph.D. from Swansea University and is a Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences. He has authored 17 books and over 100 articles and reports, and has delivered keynote presentations in over 17 countries, including at the World Bank, International Labour Organization, and European Union. Resources mentioned:The Death of Human Capital, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Human-Capital-Promise-Disruption/dp/0190644303 The Global Auction, by Phillip Brown: https://www.amazon.com/Global-Auction-Promises-Education-Incomes/dp/0199731683/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&sr=1-1 Connect with Phil:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-brown-23b60316/?originalSubdomain=uk Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?user=O9LeQNwAAAAJ&hl=en 

We tend to use the word ritual to talk about everyday routines. For instance, we have our ritualistic cup of coffee in the morning. But rituals are much more than just repetitive actions. True rituals carry deep meaning, emotion, and a promise of transformation.As a professional ritual designer, Tiu De Haan has designed rituals in countless forms. She took on the heavy task of designing a ritual to unite families of organ donors with organ recipients. She designed a ritual to help a man reach peace with the death of his twin brother who died at birth. And she's created rituals to help teams bond, think outside the box, and do their best work.Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, inspirational speaker, consultant, curator, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for almost two decades, working with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, Bank of America, and BBC.In this episode, Dart and Tiu discuss:- How to design a meaningful ritual- The difference between a habit, routine, and ritual- How rituals can inspire creativity and new ideas- The components of effective rituals- Smaller rituals you can incorporate at work- Team-building rituals- The role of the “keeper of the rituals” at work- And other topics…Tiu De Haan is a workshop facilitator, curator, inspirational speaker, and ritual designer. She has created and facilitated experiential workshops for over 17 years, including her year-long mentorship program called The Path. As a ritual designer and consultant, she has worked with clients like Google, Nike, the Ministry of Justice, L'Oréal, Bank of America, the Centre for Quantum Photonics at Bristol University, and BBC, among others.Connect with Tiu:www.Tiudehaan.com 

In the modern workplace, constant change is the norm. One week, teams are navigating a new project management system; the next, they need to adapt to a new organizational chart. Even office layouts seem to change overnight to match the company's latest pivot. While change may be the new normal, leadership expert Ashley Goodall questions its true benefits. In his latest book, The Problem with Change, he highlights the pitfalls of constant change and advocates for the pursuit of stability instead. Ashley Goodall is a leadership expert, consultant, and author who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside out. He is the former Senior Vice President at Cisco and former Director and Chief Learning Officer at Deloitte.In this episode, Dart and Ashley discuss:- Cognitive and emotional effects of constant workplace change- Consultants' role in creating change- The unique world of an executive- Improving something versus changing everything- Differences between fear and anxiety at work- The psychological impacts of layoffs- The fundamental task of leadership- HR's role as the bridge between leaders and the frontline- Measuring performance without ratings - And other topics…Ashley Goodall is a leadership expert, consultant, and author who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside out. Ashley most recently served as former Senior Vice President at Cisco, where he led organizations focused on leadership, teams, and research. Prior to Cisco, he also served as Director and Chief Learning Officer at Deloitte. Ashley's books include Nine Lies About Work and The Problem with Change, the former of which was selected as one of Amazon's best business and leadership books during its release year. Ashley has also written for Harvard Business Review, including the most popular article of 2019, “The Feedback Fallacy.” He holds his BA in Music from the University of Oxford and his MBA from the Columbia Business School. Resources mentioned:The Problem with Change, by Ashley Goodall: https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Change-Essential-Nature-Performance/dp/0316560278 The Safety Signal Hypothesis by Martin Seligman and Yitzchak Binik: https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapters/edit/10.4324/9781003150404-7/safety-signal-hypothesis-martin-seligman-yitzchak-binik The Anatomy of Genres, by John Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227 Connect with Ashley:www.AshleyGoodall.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygoodall/ 

Industrial capitalism has treated workers like marionettes breaking down work into discreet, disconnected, repeatable actions. It loves uniformity and people who do what they're told. Seth Godin's new book, The Song of Significance,  challenges us to break free of these limiting mental models, many of which are still baked into how we work.Seth Godin is an author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert whose past clients include AOL, Microsoft, Penguin, and Random House. His 20 bestselling books, Ted Talks, personal blog, and altMBA program have empowered millions of professionals to drive meaningful change at work.In this episode, Dart and Seth discuss:- The Song of Significance- Choosing and creating jobs of value instead of production- Eliminating drudgery from work- How the industrial revolution shaped work, education, and society- The power of small connections and communities in marketing- False proxies in the hiring process- The hiring method that lowers turnover and increases productivity- Criticizing work instead of the worker- And other topics…Seth Godin is a highly influential author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert whose achievements have transformed how we think about business and personal development. His company, Yoyodyne, created the first ethical commercial email and was later sold to Yahoo!, where Seth became the VP of Direct Marketing. He later founded several other successful companies, working with clients such as AOL, Microsoft, Penguin, and Random House.Seth has written 20 bestselling books translated into more than 35 languages, including Permission Marketing, Purple Cow, and, most recently, The Song of Significance. His TED Talks and personal blog have amassed millions of views, and his online workshop, altMBA, has empowered thousands of professionals to drive meaningful change in their industries. He is also the founding editor of The Carbon Almanac, a global almanac on climate created by hundreds of volunteers from over 40 countries.Resources Mentioned:The Song of Significance, by Seth Godin: https://www.amazon.com/Song-Significance-New-Manifesto-Teams/dp/0593715543The Ministry for the Future, by Kim Stanley Robinson: https://www.amazon.com/Ministry-Future-Kim-Stanley-Robinson/dp/0316300136The Carbon Almanac, by Seth Godin and The Carbon Almanac Network: https://www.amazon.com/Carbon-Almanac-Its-Not-Late/dp/B09XBYL7J3 Connect with Seth:Blog: https://seths.blog/AI Bot: https://seths.blog/bot/Seth's latest book: https://seths.blog/song/ 

The last two financial crises resulted in recessions, financial market instability, and high unemployment rates, but one group of companies proved resilient. Benefit Corporations – businesses that balance profit with social and environmental impact – experienced crisis attrition rates of less than 5%. Bart Houlahan, a co-founder of B Lab, joins Work for Humans to share why companies that invest in people outperform in their field. Bart Houlahan is Partner at Irrational Capital, the first firm to quantitatively measure the impact of corporate culture on a company's stock price. He is also co-founder of B Lab, a nonprofit organization that seeks to solve social and environmental problems while driving profitability. Currently, there are over 6,000 certified B Corporations across 150 industries in 80+ countries. In this episode, Dart and Bart discuss:- The foundation and purpose behind Irrational Capital - Why companies that treat people well outperform- Corporate culture as a new investment factor- Bart's take on the rise and fall of AND 1- The 3 main components of a Benefit Corporation- How B Corps establish strong governance- The long-term benefits of stakeholder capitalism- And other topics…Bart Houlahan is Partner at Irrational Capital and one of the co-founders of B Lab, a nonprofit organization that seeks to solve social and environmental problems while driving profitability. Currently, there are over 6,000 certified B Corporations across 150 industries in over 80 countries. Prior to B Lab, Bart was president at AND 1, where he helped to finance, operate, and scale the business to $250 MM in brand revenues while focusing on company values and corporate culture. Bart is a graduate of Stanford University. During his career, he was also an investment banker with Stonebridge Associated, BNY Associates, and Prudential-Bache Securities. Bart is a Henry Crown Fellow of the Aspen Institute and serves as an Advisory Board Member of the Fuqua Center for the Advancement of Social Entrepreneurship (CASE), the Wharton Impact Investing Initiative, and the G8 Impact Measurement Working Group. Connect with Bart:B Lab: www.bcorporation.netIrrational Capital: www.irrational.capital 

Most of us have preconceived notions about work, workers and employment that are so fundamental to how we think that we don't notice them.  The thing is, such preconceptions shape how large parts of society understand and solve problems. So when a problem is poorly framed, some potentially great solutions can't be heard.  In a previous episode we heard from Nathanial Kendall Taylor, CEO of the Frameworks Institute describing how his company helps non profits reframe problems in order to transform public thinking and enact social change. The Frameworks Institute has just released initial findings on a multi year initiative designed to change the narrative on work and labor. Today we are talking to Director of Research Bec Sanderson who led the effort to learn more about existing frames of work, and ways in which we might disrupt them to bring forward new frames and open doors to new solutions. Bec Sanderson serves as Director of Research at FrameWorks Institute. Her research has been featured in Frontiers in Psychology, The Guardian, Vice, and The Psychologist magazine.In this episode, Dart and Bec discuss:- How to reframe a concept to create new outcomes- Tracking American thoughts on the economy and work- Labor system design issues- The nature of recessive and dominant mindsets- Finding the root cause of a perspective- Alternative work systems and feasible ways to get there- Competitive framing versus solidarity framing- Whether or not we have to work to survive- And other topics…Rebecca Sanderson is a seasoned researcher and writer, currently serving as Director of Research at FrameWorks Institute. With over a decade of experience in framing research, Bec has led mixed-methods research on climate justice, anti-racism, equality, values, and – more recently – labor systems. Her work has been featured in Frontiers in Psychology, The Guardian, Vice, and The Psychologist magazine. Bec holds her MA in Psychology and Philosophy from the University of Edinburgh.Resources mentioned:Work Won't Love You Back, by Sarah Jaffe: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Wont-Love-You-Back/dp/1568589395Connect with Bec:https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/person/bec-sanderson/https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/work-shift-landing-page/