Beyond the Present Podcast

Your level of commitment to any goal determines whether you can achieve a goal and how fast. In this episode, you will learn why it is important to be equally committed to all of your goals even if you think some might not be as important as the others because doing so well train your brain to never bother looking for excuses. The way you do anything is the way you do everything, and if you teach your brain to be committed to any goal then that habit will be repeated again and again. Listen to this short program to find out how you can do just that!

We are living in an era when political polarization has reached an all-time high all over the world. Media outlets and pundits from both sides do their very best to attract as many followers to their cause aa they can often by going down an extreme route. In this short program, you will understand how you could immunize yourself against falling for the trap of polarization and developing an independent mindset that allows you to make sound decisions based upon objective thinking rather than media hype.   

Achieving whatever you desire will inevitably demand a lot of energy which is why in this episode you will learn some tips on how to boost your energy naturally and without resorting to caffeine or other stimulants! 

Your choice of career will probably have more impact on your life than any other important decision that you ever make in your lifetime simply because we spend the biggest portion of our time at work and a bad decision can doom us to a life of unhappiness and underachievement.  In this episode Daniel will discuss the most critical factors that should be considered in choosing the best career for you, one that makes the most of your interest as well as strengths so that you can be engaged and growing while at work and avoid unfulfilling career paths suggested to you by parents and the society which are often jobs that bring more security often at the cost of taking into consideration the natural inclination of the individual. 

There is a huge difference between wanting something and needing something and the root of that difference is the inherent detachment in the pursuit of a goal. When you are attached to an outcome you are much more likely to do something that prevents you from attaining it; on the other hand when you are detached from the outcome you almost never get in your own way nor send out negative vibes and therefore are much more likely to attain it.   In this episode you will learn to think like Zen masters and keep your mind detached from the outcome of the goals that you pursue so that not only you enjoy the journey towards your ideals but also achieve more in the process!

It is said that everything we strive to accomplish is for the ultimate purpose of becoming happier yet most of us are not fully capable of defining and understanding the notion of happiness and are looking for easy fixes to make ourselves happier often in vain. In this episode you will be able to thoroughly understand what happiness actually is and will be able to plan to manifest all its three types in your life! 

In this episode of the BTP Podcast, Pouya speaks with Tugrul Guner, a Physicist by training and Machine Learning Engineer by trade. Enjoy!   Tugrul's Social:  Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tugrul_Guner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tugrulguner/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, creating, expectations, idea, conversation, risk, means, fail, entrepreneurship, product, optic, agree, investors, science, deep learning, market, lose, discuss, questions, company SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Tugrul   Pouya LJ  00:00 Hello and welcome back to yet another episode of the b2b podcast as always here with Tulou. continuing our conversation from last last week or so I think it was exactly last week, same time ish.   Tugrul  00:29 Hi, Sue. How are you doing? I'm good. How about you?   Pouya LJ  00:33 Oh, good doing well. As always, we are joining forces to have some conversations, some fun conversations. There's a lot of things a lot of topics we won't talk about for the next few episodes. But today, we're going to stick with a continuation of our last conversation, we started last conversation with immigration, we talked a little bit we pivoted towards the end to talk about some experiences you had personally in entrepreneurship, but very briefly, so now we would like to expand on that. So first of all, we are in a country that has good, pretty good opportunities to be an entrepreneur supports you in terms of the regulation in terms of the support system, incubators and such, of course, nobody does that one of the top countries would be United States, but we are also in a not so bad of a country in that department. So and you have done some basic studies on your own reading free readings and such in the space. So I would like to, you know, for you to give some like general background to our audience, and what do you think of? First of all, let's start with actually defining entrepreneurship. I'm not sure most people know, probably everybody knows what it means. But let's get our definition straight. So what does it mean to be an entrepreneur? What is an entrepreneur? Oh, that's   Tugrul  02:01 a good question. And it is really like kind of depends from person to person. But what I like about the definition of it is like, if you're creating something of benefit for society, or benefit for humanity, or something like that people can use people can benefit of it. You're an entrepreneur, when it doesn't necessarily mean that you have millions of dollars of company like startup, like your own company, but actually, whoever, even nonprofit, even like, they call it like an internal, or like maybe something else. But even if you didn't a company, if you're creating a value, creating a project, creating something you're like, internal intrapreneurs to, or if you're working for a nonprofit, organization, if you're creating something, if you're like creating a value, you're still an intrapreneur, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to make a profit out of it. intrapreneur is something that you're creating a value out of it, let me   Pouya LJ  03:11 write it as you say, value doesn't have to be monetary, although it can be but it doesn't have to be monetary. Okay. Okay. So that's the definition. You go with it. I agree with you. But like, you can define a different, many different ways, I guess. Yeah, that's right. And that's why I wanted to I mean, the definitions will be related, even if different, but I wanted to get that out of the way. Okay, so, so a personal or group of people who venture to do something that generates value to to others or potentially themselves, okay, and the value doesn't have to be monetary. All right. So so what was your so what was your the first time you became, you know, interested in this concept, and started thinking about it?   Tugrul  04:00 As far as I mean, as far as I know, I always like, had this spirit. I'm like this feeling that I want to create something, I still consider myself an intrapreneur even though I don't have a company yet. I never like I tried to start a company one or two years ago, that because of this immigration issues, I couldn't do that. But I try. But in the sense of like creating values, I always consider myself an intrapreneur. It started when I was like probably in bachelor. Like I always wanted to like, since I love tech, I always wanted to be part of it. First I wanted to be part of a scientifically that's the reason why I did my PhD then postdocs, but then I realized that maybe in the sense that Okay, so if you're a professor, you're creating values, like publications, etc. But it doesn't necessarily mean that The things that you're doing are gonna be like practical soon or ever? I don't know, it depends if you're if you're a theoretical physics, I mean, so it is going to be hard to create a value from, like a practical value like a business kind of value from a wormhole studies. But maybe why not maybe like 100 1000s of years later, it depends like, how is the human humanities going to evolve in tech? Yeah, I had this feeling of, apart from my physics or scientific interest, I always want to create a value. So it started that I had some attempts in back in Turkey. So like, I wanted to create a company focusing on solar cells, renewable energies, but I couldn't get any funding from anywhere. So yeah, I think as long as you feel you want to create something from scratch, it means that you have not 100% all the suffering for Spirit for the intrapreneurship. But you have it at some point, like, at some level, you have it partially. Or if you're, if you want to do this for Horrell whole of your life, like professionally, of course, you have the 100%. Ownership spread, because it requires risk taking skill. So, for example, okay, of course, you maybe you want to create values, but you're kinda like, okay, but if I lose my savings, what if I fail? What if I do this, there's something wrong, and I lost, like some something. So if you are not like a risk taker, if you don't like taking risks, you can consider yourself still intrapreneur? What partially, I mean, you have to take risk, you have to be courage. I mean, you have to this is kind of, I don't like to say it like a gamble, because it's not exactly a gamble. It's not something totally random. There are things that can be random niche, based on what, for example, you have an idea, and it has to be the right time. Right? This is kinda like, you can't control it, you it is what it is like, I mean, you have to be there at the right time at the right place. So this kind of stuff like this being lucky is still like not, you cannot ignore it. But I mean, if you have this creativity, skills, and also you like to take risks, you're okay with that, then you have to go for it properly. Right?   Pouya LJ  07:43 Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think I agree with you too, because there is there's risk taking, there's loss of your control. But there's also lots of out of your control as true probably with anything in life. But this this area, specifically more because inherently you're trying to venture in an area that has not existed. Or if you're replicating somebody else, then you're not you're just competing against them, okay, at least it's an industry that is tested, but then you the barrier to entry might be high in that. Others have set their foot straight, like imagine if you want to be now in new Google. Good luck, you have to offer something new, or we're probably not going to happen, right? So for that reason, I think there's so many forces working against you, or out of your control, if not against you. So, so yeah, I agree with you. There's definitely inherently some risks. So you have to have some appetite for risk, you have to be a little bit. Actually, this is why this is why this became an extension of our previous conversation on immigration, because we basically said the same things about immigration, because you're stepping into the unknown, you're giving up a lot of things, a lot of comfort, a lot of support structure that is there, right? And same thing with the being an employee, okay? It's not, it's not terrible. You have a support structure, you have benefits, you have salary, you know, where your next bill come, meal comes from, where it's going to be paid from. Now, you can do that, partially with entrepreneurship, of course, but that inherently means that you're trying to build something and convince others this is something that generates value for them to get them to adopt. Now typically for monetary gains for you. It doesn't have to be as we said, but typically it is right. So so yeah, I agree with you. I think there's there's there's there's that there's the speaking aptitude but then I want to ask you, what else do you think it takes for one to be an entrepreneur? Trying to stay excellent, except for risk taking?   Tugrul  09:46 Yeah, of course, like courage. First of all, like apart from the stigma, they're all parallel, like I mean, if you're a risk taker, you're you've means that you also can be courageous but You have to be patient, but at the same time you have to, it is not exactly the patient because you have to really understand and feel when you have to change the strategy, or you have to keep going. That is really a hard problem. I mean, for example, you have an idea. You, you think that this is going to be something important for people. But something happened and people started to not respond it I mean, when you when you release it to the market, like a first product, like proof of concept, well, you can say that minimum viable product, when you ask people to click and use this, and can you give me please feedback, and you can face something like, people don't like it, or people are not willing to give a feedback. And you can think that, okay, this is a moment that should either I should like, change my idea or my strategy, or I should keep going. So you have to understand that patience in the sense that if you're really be sure, and if you really feel that it's gonna work, it has to work in some way, you have to be patient. But if you're patient for something, there's not gonna be anything in future. So it's not gonna be worth anything, people are not gonna use it, whatever you do, then being patient doesn't mean anything, because you're on the wrong path already. So I mean, it does who nobody is going to care how much distance you like, to be on the path, because you're going in the wrong direction. But in the right path, for sure, you have to be patient. And you have to mean also you have to, like, be able to act quickly. So when I was taking this training from this incubator for three months, I didn't learn this directly there. But people were keep saying, if you're gonna fail, fail fast. This is it comes from, I think it was from Zuckerberg speech, or something like that. Maybe I'm just combining some irrelevant stuff together. But somebody said that, from the top, like a well known figure, I guess, because it was like, I remember, it's coming from somewhere like that. But they were in the Silicon Valley, they were saying that if you're going to fail, fail fast, because you have to be really fast if you're going to fail. But you still have need time to like, find the correct path. Other than that, if you're like, like, just keep chasing this wrong path. It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. So it has to be fast. That's what they mean. Also, like, um, the way that I started to learn the details about the intrapreneurship, of course, I was an academic iPhones in academia when I was taking this training, so most of the things were so new to me, still, I'm here. Not saying that I'm an expert of intrapreneurship. I'm not an expert, also not an expert. intrapreneur I'm here just feeling some stuff about intrapreneurship I have some feelings, I'm just expressing them and not just like saying, please, what I'm saying is take it through about intrapreneurs now, I'm just just just giving my opinion about it. But yeah, whatever I understood about it is like this Lean thingy, this Lean Startup i Oh, I'm also reading right now the book and it is kinda like argues about, you know, the, I don't know, you remember that back in the day, like, like 15 years ago, like a starting a business was all about like having the perfect product, almost. If you're going to the market, you have to have it, you have to have the product that is not going to fail, like frequently it's going to fail. So in so rare cases, so everybody's going to have the product and it's going to work like a flawlessly I mean, everybody's gonna be happy today, it's about the change with this concept. With this people are saying is release the product, but it released it in a in such a way that it should teach you something if they're not saying that because they some people are criticizing this idea, then in the market, they're like a garbage products a lot. Of course, if you're doing it like just to release anything doesn't make sense to you, then they're gonna be like garbage products all around. You don't need to really create the perfect product even you don't need to maybe spend lots of times on it. Even like just some brick, stone and wood if you're able to like give the idea with them. have a basic idea, then you can measure the response of people on board. And they can be like, Oh my god, yeah, I like it. I like to have it. Or they can be like, This is good. Let me use it. Two days later, they're like, yeah, it was good. But this feature was, I didn't use it at all. I don't think it's necessarily, although I voted in, you know what, I use this, but I really needed this feature for this. These are the things. And you really have to approach this problem kind of scientifically, you have to have this viable pro minimum viable product, like a Bridgestones woods, for example. But when you're providing this, you have to have correct questions in your mind, you have to design it in that way. Because you're going to focus on not profit at first, you're going to focus on what you can learn from market from because you, your product is not going to be shaped by you, is going to be shaped by the customer. Whatever the idea you have, you can think that this is the perfect idea. You know what, everybody's gonna love it. No bullshit, no, maybe the problem is not gonna work. Probably nobody's going to care most probably, of course, there are some rare cases proven that just worked at the beginning. But most of the time, what I heard from the story is even the people were like, what we thought was this, at the end after those feedbacks, etc, it was it evolved in such a different way. We didn't even like, imagine that, of course, because it's kind of shaped by customer is, you don't know their need. Exactly. I mean, the we're talking about these people, like lots of people, everybody has different needs. But what do you need to do statistically? They need not micro needs, of course, you need to figure out the macro need at the end. And that's what is it is actually like, I mean, of course, I probably oversimplify it. But this, this is kind of like evolutionary approach for business. You're, you're loving your product to evolve with the customer need, your environment is deciding who is going to live who is going to die in I mean, it is going to be customer so customer is going to decide what is going to die. What is going to survive.   Pouya LJ  17:33 Can you so so the name of the book is lean startup? Yes, lean startup. Okay. And do you remember the political the author's name by it?   Tugrul  17:46 Sure. Okay, so let's click New   Pouya LJ  17:50 for sure. Yeah, please, just for whatever might be interested to, you know, maybe?   Tugrul  17:55 Oh, yeah. Yep. Every price. regrets. Okay.   Pouya LJ  17:59 All right. Okay, so Lean Startup by Eric Ries. You guys heard it here. First. No, it doesn't matter. Anyways. Okay. So. So the idea of Lean is that you don't you don't sweat. Okay. So that's, that's another thing. Like I've seen people get bogged down by the details. Right.   Tugrul  18:18 So yeah, you can lost loads of time for that. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  18:22 Yeah, exactly. Let me get the perfect office, let me know. Yeah. Find the best curtain, or the best laptop I want to use.   Tugrul  18:31 Yeah, but you know what, because there's stories that people have verb like, months years for the product. And at the end, they realize that this product, people are not going to use it. Imagine that they were they were like, oh my god, he did it wrong, we have to ask first, then we have to build this product based on the feedback. But the good feedback, of course, there will be some garbage feedbacks, you have to be able to like filter and filter them out. Like you have to be careful about that. But at the end you're going to spend your time on something you you know that people are going to use because you have their feedback. So other than that, like you can these like these guys, they six months for nothing. I mean, time is important. Time is precious. And we have to   Pouya LJ  19:24 Yeah. And then you don't get you don't want to get on the right idea too late either. You might have a generally right idea, but then narrowed down what as you said, what the features are, if somebody beats you to it, when you're too late, it's not like you have infinite amount of time in a competitive market. Right. So that's fair. So so that's that's where I guess the Lean comes from, of course, for you to fully understand the Lean part. You need to read the whole book, which is simplifying. I haven't even read the book you at least have are reading I'm not sure we're still here and you're still reading right anyway, so you're still ahead of me but anyways, okay, so So we talked about what it takes to be an entrepreneur at a general level, we talked about some concepts in entrepreneurship. And of course, there is different markets that you, you know, participate in, and different regulatory structures, different financial structures. Like a lot of times, in North America, in general, you end up raising capital through venture capitals, investors and such. Sometimes you fund through smaller means sometimes you raise you take loan from banks, for example. That's generally the pathways for raising money that goes on. And in North America. Of course, different parts of the world might be differently, but more or less will have similar structure. Now, so of course, you have to have the idea, right? Is there a way that you can be in a start something without an idea? I can't, I can't imagine them. But okay, so you have the idea. Now, so the first question is, do I have the right idea at the Grand level? Or don't I? Right? How would you able to answer How would you? How do you think you would be able to answer that, of course, you can ask close family and friends, but they're really probably not the best advisors because they don't want to be your cheerleaders. Typically, we give you not so objective. So how do you evaluate the general idea? Or should you spend too much time evaluating it in the first place?   Tugrul  21:42 Oh, yeah, sure, definitely. Why? Because you're going to put some times put some effort on it, if if you decide that like, Okay, I, this idea is going to work. So it means that you're going to take some risks, you're going to spend time on it, etc, etc. So the first thing you have to do is go out there to the market, find the the companies, startups that are close to what you have as an idea, like maybe not exactly the same, but at least there are some similarities, that they're close in the same industry. Or you can think of potential customers, potential companies that can be customers or something like that. I mean, you have to find make some make some market research, you have to contact people, CEOs, I don't know, like HR, maybe not HR sales, maybe if you're planning to sell them something, you have to first before pitching anything, you have to talk to them like oh, like oh, how are you? The I was thinking this? Do you think? Do you need something like this? Or I? I am thinking this? And do you think in future this kind of service or this kind of product tenure help with you? This? Is this is important to be specific, if it's possible, because maybe they don't know it, maybe you figure that out. But you have to show it, I mean, okay, this, do you think you may need this like, in this process, for example, this can make your life easier because of this, this this? For example, it was what how much time it take for you? They can say like five hours? Oh, yeah, this can reduce it to for example, two hours. Either you can first ask questions to find the data need to show them they need it, or the need is already there. And you can discuss about it, but not in a teaching level. Not you're not there at first, during the market research to sell something, of course, you're gonna you need to sell something. But first, you need to contact as much as possible, like people as much as possible. Ask questions like, like a record like this like a podcast like you have, they're going to ask you, you're going to ask them because at the end, if you not make them bored, if you're interested in the conversation, this is going to be Vin Vin it goes into the correct letter in the correct path. Because they are going to if they understand that they are going to use it and this is going to be beneficial for them. It is going to be something good because then you're going to have some feedback maybe maybe you can see the first you thought the need was this but then they they can say something that you need to you may need to change a bit modified. I mean, what I'm trying to say here is you have to go out there first. Go ask as much as possible when I had this idea of microscope like make the microscopy autonomous, just automatic microscopies I even found a cut pool of people from India using microscopies. So we just chat. I mean, on LinkedIn, for example, I send the messages they send me back. My we chat maybe became not exactly very, like close friends, of course. But I mean, we had a conversation a couple of times. So they tried to help me, for example, I had a company in Canada. So they showed some interest on this because they needed something like that. It didn't go well, because we couldn't even start the business. But, I mean, we had two or three meetings with CEO CTO, this service people that they like, really presented what they have there. So they even ask some questions. We need this, we need that. The questions they asked are totally different than the idea that we were like, contacted them. But you know what, that that is more valuable? Because they need it. It is a need my idea? I don't know if there's a need. Now I know that there's a need of from them, right? I mean, this is you have to go first. I mean, this is free. I mean, of course not everybody is going to respond you like maybe on 100, like 1015, I don't know, it depends on your connection that your network. But even one it's going to be can be very important for you. So yeah, you have to go out there and you have to ask, I mean, even though you don't have any idea, like but you you think that for example, I didn't have a specific idea on creating optical computation, accelerators. I was working in optics laboratory. Two years ago in university. I knew it, there is now a big startup in United States called Light matter they are using optic to accelerate deep learning calculations. Deep learning process, really, this they designed it specifically for of course, severely, like a kind of niche for like a deep learning purpose. But you know what? It is a need, actually. Right? If you're increasing the time that it takes for the training for some models within deep learning more than GPU. Mining God ECU has something. And these guys are also like, what they're using is not electronics is optics. So it means that energy efficient, also, you're not creating heat. It was hybrid, of course, you're creating feet. So because your hybrid system, but not totally electronic system, you're still gaining something out of it, reducing the at least the energy consumption, electricity consumption and energy release. So that's yeah, I mean, this kind of stuff, of course. Can change. But yeah, the the answer is you have to go out there first, of course.   Pouya LJ  28:06 Yeah, I mean, think. So the second, you go out there, and you see that you have the right idea more or less. Now, I think the second step is to kind of like, maybe it's even before this, maybe it's I think this is a continuous thing at every step, you have to adjust for it. But I think you kind of also have to have certain, like, manage expectations. Okay, what do you expect to achieve? In what sort of time horizon? And what is your, your fault tolerance? How much are you like, Okay, this is this is the expectation I have this is the hopeful expectation, I haven't this is the minimum expectation I have. And if I'm falling below the minimum consistently, then that's an issue. I cannot afford it for whatever reason, or it doesn't work for me or that. That's where I'm going to call it quits, essentially. So I think those think those conversations to have with yourself and with your co founders, teammates, team members, investors, everybody, I think it's very, also paramount, because a lot of times people just have the wrong expectations. Just that doesn't mean that they're failing, per se, it just means that they're not, they're not, you know, on par with a certain expectation that they created for themselves. Or there's a miscommunication at some potential, you know, people have different expectations. Let's say you got some investment. And then your investment, investors have high expectations. And your expectations to yourself internally is slightly different, then that miscommunication can cause problems when you're not able to deliver to the expectations of your investors. So I think expectation management's and communications, of course, are paramount. And I think this is us. That's why I'm saying it's continuous because I did sees this thing may change, because your idea may get modified to a degree by going out there talking to people. Maybe it gets trimmed, maybe it gets argumented And therefore you have to continuously re evaluate and recalibrate. Okay, so we're coming to the end of the the this episode, I wanted to see if there is anything. So of course, one more thing before we come to the end, of course, the next natural step is execution. And I think you do your market research, you decide that this is viable, you set expectations. Now it's time to execute. And I think this is the part that you don't want to you want to go, you got to go lean, right? You want to go after the main thing, you don't want to get bogged down again, by the details even in execution. So is there anything you want to say to that to the execution stage of this thing?   Tugrul  30:52 Ah, I mean, exactly. Oh, yeah. This tricky? It is tricky. Because I, maybe that's, since I don't have much experience it is. I can say, some like, things clearly. But execution step is probably the hardest part of it. I mean, so we we have ideas all the time, right? I mean, you we can think this list, we can go for this, we can go for the What about this idea, whatever that idea, but we are not doing anything because first, we don't have that much experience. Second, we still like we still are living for to pay our bills and our rent. As long as we are able to do that paying our bills or rent I mean, to be able to live. Yeah, then the rest is okay. I mean, you can fail, you can just lose something, you can just start again, you can fail, you can start again. But the barrier is the point is, you cannot go below it. I mean, you cannot go become like, Okay, I can't pay my rent this month. No, it is not. It's unacceptable. So you how are you going to do it? How are you going to survive? You need to eat you need to be able to pay your bills, you at least for your for example, internet to be able to communicate with people on like, for example, social media, right? Yes. I mean, these are like the basics, your as long as you're okay with that, okay, whatever happens, we are not going to go below this, we are going to be able to pay our rent, bills, etc. Then you can like try something you can fail. Because you're not gonna lose by the end, you're gonna be able to eat and survive, and you're gonna find a shelter. Like home, to be able to live sleep. I think that's that's the that's the basic like a base level, like, you can't go below. Right? That's, for example, why I can't be like a more brave than that. Because I can lose I can tolerate to lose my current job, for example, or my current conditions. So because we don't know, of course, like, let's say that you started the business, you raised a couple of millions, 10 million, let's say that you an investor came and just or a company acquired you and you just earn 10 million. Yeah, then I can start to that's what my dream. I mean, I really want to go there and invest money on tech. First of all my ideas, together with other people's ideas, I want to invest all of them. The ones that I think I like and I see potential for future. I think we can also like for the next episode, we can continue on discussing that because there are like, also things that we can discuss probably like, what kind of market or what kind of like, areas that you would like to go and invest on both time and money. So that's my like, that's what I think it like, if you start something and if we like, earn something out of it, then the rest can be the risk. And of course, you're going to fail some of them, but but at the end, you are going to make some contribution to the technology, sometimes science because these some companies, for example, the one that I gave you an example like light metals, like optic computation, they're basically doing science. They're also Xanadu, for example, the court computers like they are developing optic quantum computers that they're doing also science they're publishing continuously. So did today. I mean, the things are not the science and tech are not like just coming up from the universities anymore. Companies are doing that, too. That's why I really changed my idea from being an professor to become an entrepreneur or to dive into the industry. Right? But there are lots of things to invest on still, I mean, invest with not only time time is we have it, I mean, that's what we have right now. But, but in future like, we were gonna, as like, this generation, as like, technology lovers, like a scientific minded people, or like, I don't know, like, whoever loves it to increase or improve people improve humanity in in this path. We're going to do it, we have to do it. Because we are living on a planet and we are planning to go other planets. And one day, we are not going to see that of course, but the sun is going to explode. And this even this, this system, the solar system is not going to be habitable. I mean, so we have to go somewhere else. You never know. I mean, you have to do this. Now you have to invest on this. I mean, for sure.   Pouya LJ  36:34 No, no, I am with you. And actually, one of the next episodes, we wanted to talk about space travel. And so so maybe we'll discuss about that. Yep, no, I guess the time is now. It's always now. For sure, I agree with you. There's a lot of areas of interest in investments, which we also can talk about in the future episodes, as well. Anything that maybe you wanted to talk about? We didn't get to? As of now?   Tugrul  37:05 No, no, everything is I think everything is? Okay. Of course, if there are like questions. If if someone is listening to this and have questions can always like comment on the podcast and ask questions that we can discuss. I'm not saying that we are going to answer it, because we are we are right now. This is these are the questions that everybody is as long as they're not convicted, like convinced. Everybody's right. Yeah, it means that you're right. It's your idea, because I can't convince you. So we can discuss, of course, what I don't know. Like, there are lots of things to discuss, of course, some, some can criticize me, by the way. They can say that instead of like thinking about going to space we can focus on like, people in Africa, for example, people are like, they they it is so hard for them to find food. They sometimes like most of the time, maybe they starve they sometimes like they can't find water, clean water to drink, of course, but science and tech, if we boosted it can resolve everything we can find the like a solution for everything for everybody. Not only to go to space, I'm not telling you that even the Clean Water Genie like having a clean water is science. Yeah, we will have to eliminate it. As long as you figure that out like food. You can create food, like farming, it is also science. Okay, it is something old, but we know it's technology. If you if you know how to do it, you can go there. And you can do it. Maybe you can do it free. Why not?   Pouya LJ  38:55 Yeah, this is this is the thing like a two to many main it seems sounds ridiculous. But actually yeah, farming is a is an was is a technology. Same with writing, language, technology, with technology, all of these that we take for granted nowadays. They were all technologies, very advanced technologies at their own time. For sure. Okay. Yeah, no, I agree. And I really like the point you made about comments. Yeah, for sure. If there is something you want us to discuss further on this topic or any topic for that matter? please do leave your comments. And as Stuart said, it doesn't mean that we are right and we have answered, but it means that we can spark a conversation and you can take that thought, go discuss it with your friends and family or in your own podcast. And and yeah, let us know either way. We will welcome your suggestions, criticisms, thoughts into the comment section for sure. Okay. Thank you through for today's conversation too. It was very interesting. I really enjoy Was it? And, yeah, so we'll talk more. We'll talk more on future episodes. But until that time, thanks again.   Tugrul  40:12 Thank you get ready. Have a great weekend.   Pouya LJ  40:15 And thank you. We're recording as a Friday when this episode might not be Friday for you guys, but I'm sorry if it's Monday through Monday. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for tuning in and I hope to see you on the next episode. Take care

In this episode of the BTP Podcast, Pouya speaks with Tugrul Guner, a Physicist by training and Machine Learning Engineer by trade. Enjoy!   Tugrul's Social:  Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tugrul_Guner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tugrulguner/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, immigrating, bureaucracy, courage, permanent residency, talent, immigration, canada, focus, country, entrepreneurship, build, challenges, life, permit, lots, emigrate, mentioned, apply, agree SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Tugrul   Pouya LJ  00:00 Well hello, and welcome back yet again to yet another episode of The BTP podcast, ladies and gentlemen, I hope you're doing fabulous. We're back with total as per our previous episode. And we're going to talk about some cool stuff today, next few days and so forth and so on. It's going to be a few days of few episodes of lots of goodies around. So welcome back to rule out doing   Tugrul  00:44 good and good. Now in better,   Pouya LJ  00:47 whatever. That's great to hear. Not bad. It was a good day. Very productive. Lots of work to do, though. And now whether it was nice, so it for walk that was that was also good.   Tugrul  01:00 It's a bit dark, though. Yeah, it's getting dark again.   Pouya LJ  01:04 We're recording this at 9pm, which is good. Yeah. So so how are you doing? Overall, life is good. Life is treating you well.   Tugrul  01:13 Here are some work, work work with the Friday. So we are celebrating Happy Friday. Yay. But not today. Of course, unfortunately. Looking forward. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So then we look forward to Monday. Yes. And so to celebrate Happy Monday.   Pouya LJ  01:34 That's right. All right. So today, we're going to talk about a little bit about tooth topics, which kind of go I guess, hand in hand, at least in your story. And that is about initially about immigration as a whole. I mean, of course, you can share your personal story, but then immigration as a whole, what are the Will you will you advise it on others? Will you tell others to emigrate? Let's start there. So what are your thoughts on immigration? I then to break the ice a little bit to give the audience a little bit of a background. So the reason we're talking about immigration is because the way I personally looked at immigration is immigration is basically an uprooting of your life. So you have to, first of all have the courage to leave so many things behind in and I kind of look at it the Vikings way, if you will, I look at it as going after something different, something more something better, something different, I think the different borders the key. And for the upper. Hello, of course. Exactly, exactly. So that's how I look at immigration, I feel like it's because you're just seeking more opportunities, a different opportunity. The broad level, but what are your thoughts as a whole? And will you suggest it to others? Should they be in a position to be debating it?   Tugrul  03:07 Yeah, of course, I agree. I mean, it depends on where you're where you're immigrating to. Right. So so when you're living so many stuff behind the like, your parents, your I mean, whatever, like you, you're just leaving your friends. Not only like a friends and friends may maybe you're living some thing that you love, I mean, your books, I mean, your car, you never know. I mean, who knows? Right? So you're leaving them for to build a better feature. Right? Other than that, like, there is no point or, or, or you somebody or something like somehow you should be forced to do that. I'm not considering that this. That's a whole another story. So I mean, I don't I can't say anything about it. If you're forced to emigrate, this something is not an option for you, but is an option. If you're immigrating. The whole idea is to go somewhere, that you think that you're gonna You can live better, with a better life, better conditions, anything like for example, in our side, like, we don't have kids, but if you want to have kids, we want our kids to live in a place that they can be happy. They can live like they supposed to. Not like like I mean, not should they shouldn't work on the like heart conditions or they they should they like they can work and work and work but at the end if they can't get anything, and they're still like at the level of being poor and starving. So that was the point that mean so so many countries are on there, like people day and night are working. But at the end of the day, they can just live serving for not to die to survive. They're just surviving. I mean, this is unacceptable because I mean, we are living this life once and just surviving it, we are not Indonesia, we are just not just trying to build something for our kids, because we have the complexity we have that civilization, the the, like, we evolved, we, we have this complexity. And so I agree with you at that point. So we just with K, we came to Canada for the purpose to like to live a better life to, to, like, make our dreams come true. Like I have lots of dreams, and I want to make them real here. And I know that this country allows me to do so. As long as I have like, like a vote permit permanent residency or like, of course, the citizenship. Something. authorization of this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But it is hard. It is hard. Not this this. Not everybody can do it. I mean, I know I am thinking in my parents shoes, like, they complain all the time. But they don't have that courage to leave everything and go somewhere else. Especially like, because of the language barrier, of course. Right, right. Yeah, but I'm not sure if my parents know how to speak English, for example, I'm still not sure they can leave everything behind and go somewhere to speak English. But this is the first step. This is the first thing the language barrier.   Pouya LJ  06:45 And this provides an excuse,   Tugrul  06:47 yes, oh, who is gonna like who's gonna learn at this age? I mean, people are, some people can graduate from university. Sure. 70 years old. But it depends from person to person, of course, is called a comfort zone, of course, your book for your parents, they happy. So anyway, so. But it's also full of challenges immigrating to somewhere like, okay, let's say that you already can speak a language of the country that you're immigrating. Let's keep that part. Let's say that we all know that language, for example, hear English. Then the next thing, the next challenge is the culture, of course. So you're coming from a culture, mostly a different culture, some common things, of course, but some different things, it can sometimes get hard to use it. Learn it, of course. I mean, you should find a way to learn it, you should find a way to have some friends. It is also a challenge to like to meet people, because I'm not talking about being young. I'm talking about like me that I emigrated here, like around 30 years old. So you know that right? Like, if you get older, it is becomes harder to find friends or like, have close friends. I mean, you you become picky.   Pouya LJ  08:17 And you don't you don't get those opportunities. As often. For example, if you come at the university level or high school level or even earlier, then you get to, you know, build those relationships in school and university and so forth. So, so that would be different. You're right, yeah. Okay.   Tugrul  08:33 Yeah, I mean, also, you need yours. They came as a postdoc here, like I had a, like, we have people in the group like PhDs, master's students, okay, at the school, you're called, like having, like a nice conversations with you, you're enjoying the talk, etc. But when the day is over, or everybody goes to home, and you don't go out, even on like weekends, I don't remember that I call or somebody called me to Let's go here. Like, just happened. Rarely. Yeah, I mean, I don't know maybe I didn't call or they didn't call because we all like we are picky or we already have some other friends. Or we are just lazy like laying down at home and let's let's go live. Watch this. Let's go watch that. Like, of course, going out something you don't prefer if you don't have a hobby outside. So that, like I, I was lucky. Of course, I came here with my wife. So I wasn't alone. And I know that I had friends who were like, alone. They were like, struggling with that they were like sometimes depressing. This is this is something challenging for people, especially who like rating by themselves. This can be challenging after like language barrier because having Frances bit hard. Um, next thing is of course, paperwork, some governmental issues, for example, right? Yeah. Oh, amazing. I mean, like, pull off, like being anxious about being anxious, like pulling nerves like I mean, what's going to happen full, you're just getting stressed. You're applying, for example, I came with a work permit. So it was like a one year or two years for at first. The first year was okay, because I have one year more, but when like, I'm given a deadline. Oh, yes. I mean, it's full of like anxiety, let's have we have to apply and you're waiting sometimes months? And you never know, maybe maybe you always have been back of your mind labor? What if they reject? What if I had to go back home after one year this even in one year, even imagined, like, yesterday, because you're trying to build something here, you're trying to do something you want to like, instead of thinking about this stuff, you want to focus on things about what you can do next? What is the next step? What should I do? Well, but this, you do this at some point, but then when you are approaching the deadlines, you just stopped doing that? And okay, what should I do? Like we have to apply this and we have to wait in response of my hope we can, we will get rejected. Yeah, that kind of stuff. This, this is something challenging also, like, mental mentally challenging. It can, it doesn't help you with that. So. So then you're you're looking for people who sponsored you to extend your contract, or look for another job that they can sponsor you to continue living here. Unfortunate ly my contract was extended by my employer. But it was one year, so that was full of challenges. And also, if you want to vote for work permit, there are two stories like one is open work permits. For example, one is closer permit, I had the close work permit, so I can't legally work for someone else. I wasn't, I wasn't able to vote for someone else. Of course. That's also like something problematic. I mean, I pro like the Pro. There are lots of reasons to do that, of course, but I mean, for a person who was having close work permit, it's hard to find a job like I mean, I was like, interested in going to industry at that time. So not all the companies are able to provide you the necessary paperwork to sponsor you. They are like, okay, so we are done. Not that big, we are still started up, or we are this and we can't Sorry, sorry. Yeah, whatever. This is how the system is. So you survived somehow, if you're if you want to, like stay or if you really want to, like, do something. And if you just focused, you know, will you find your way? Of course. Yeah, I like for example, I came to Ottawa, in my in my business for my second postdoc last year, and I got another contract to open but then I applied for permanent residency, and now I have a permanent residency, which, which is good now, I don't have issues. Like I don't have concerns about these kinds of permits, etc. But   Pouya LJ  13:51 yes, free of the bureaucracy.   Tugrul  13:55 Even like I when I was in my first post to get my chair like, at, like, two incubated with a project, which is accelerator called Suntec. I was good. I got accepted for the project. And I like me and my professor X professor was like, we were cofounders the ideal I always liked it. The name of the project microscope bought I mean, it was an amazing name, I still like it. It was a kind of idea that tries to automate microscopy with the AI I was so involved in the even though I didn't have any expertise like I didn't study I didn't have that much expense all personal hobby and but I was like, I was using microscope electron microscope so I was like, why not? I mean, not electron microscope me because they are expensive toys but why not for the like regular traditional Microsoft optical ones. Maybe I can design a system the If you can just put your samples and leave for the coffee and the whole system goes back for Drive left focus, then deal with everything by itself automatically collected data after like a couple of hours. So you have 1000s of images. Wow, amazing. You were just drinking your coffee. And you know, after one hour, you have 1000s of images. So yeah, I pitched the idea I took like, the train by them, like three months, it was like an intensive three months program from this intrapreneurship level, they were teaching you that   Pouya LJ  15:35 the what were they teaching, if they were teaching you only the entrepreneurship intrapreneur technical stuff to   Tugrul  15:42 networking, how to build network and how to prepare your minimum viable product MVP is what you should have to do how you can deal with the business plan, they mostly were using lean startup idea, like, don't try to get the perfect product, just start with something that you can show potential customers potential investors, that my idea is this how this is a demonstration, no limit, it can be even, you don't need to pay, like it can be cost free that you can just some build something or you can just create a software like or like a file, what I did was like, for example, I applied object detection with the for a video that I created from microscopy. I just applied object detection over it. And I showed that how the objects are like a tracked with the algorithm and how was it moving left, right? And how was it detecting the focus and the system if not focused on aligned? Axis, etc. Like that? It took me like, five hours, six hours. Yeah, but the problem was, then everything went well, like there were like lots of brilliant ideas around. So you will also be able to connect with them. You can also I don't know, like, if there's a good connection between you and someone else, you can just that guy or you can join him or her they can join you. So very dynamic environment. But the next step was you have to build your startup really officially have to start it to be able to go to the next step. But I couldn't do that because I had a work permit. And there was no way there was no way to start the company, you have to find someone who has a residency or citizenship, that needs to be at least I don't know, I just gonna, I don't remember exactly the number is 20 25% or something like that, to have that share in the company to be able to like a build it. So that was the time that I'm like, oh, okay, so I'm not gonna be able to do anything, unless I received my permanent residency. Just hold me back for some time, to be honest. These are all challenges. I mean, cultural, going immigrating to somewhere else, language barriers, then this kind of stuff. I mean,   Pouya LJ  18:21 the bureaucracy. Yeah. So I do want to go a little bit back first, and then come back to this. So you mentioned a while back, you mentioned courage. And I think that's a key key word in immigration. Because anybody who's like, had gone through immigration will tell you more or less, it's not an easy endeavor. Even so some people have it worse, some people have it better. Some people have a better experience, easier experience, some people have a more difficult experience. But ultimately, even the ones who have a relatively easy experience is generally difficult, because first of all, you have to move on from something, as you mentioned, you have to put some stuff behind. Either they're actually you know, literally stuff like inanimate objects or books and you know, whatever. Or, for example, job maybe, or there are people that you have to move, move away from and it doesn't mean that you don't keep contact with them. But it means that while you're not going to be seeing them every day, and then the second fold of that is that there are going to be lots of challenges. As you mentioned, there's many faults, cultural language barriers, cultural barriers, experiential barriers, sometimes it's not easy to find the right job in the same industry because you don't have the right experience in that country. Now, you may have experiences in other countries, but sometimes they don't translate all that well depending on the field of course. So it takes a lot of courage to leave what you have behind and as you mentioned, some people are forced to move and just go somewhere else because of wars or refugees, so maybe it's a different story there. But for those who choose to emigrate, then it does take courage because it means that you have to uproot your life. Whether it's good or bad, however good or bad it is. Nevertheless, you have to destruct your environment. And I think it takes courage. But with everything, if you have the ratio, if you wisely choose and you're courageous, odds are that you're going to get something out of it either a good result ultimately, or a good lesson, even if you fail. So I just wanted to point that out and see if there's anything you want to add on that courage point, to the whole story of immigration before we move on to bureaucracy.   Tugrul  20:47 Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like, if it's courage, in my case, I was planning to, like, move somewhere like Europe or United States or Canada. When even when I was like, in bachelor, that was kinda like my plan already. Because I really wanted to have a portunity to build something big. Yeah. I mean, you can do it in your own country. Yes, maybe. But the effort? Okay. They're not saying, Oh, that's it, the dynamics are very different. For example, my country. First of all, there are not much technology companies around like not, it's like, consider Silicon Valley. I mean, come on. Like, if you go to Silicon Valley, somehow, if you started to be become an entrepreneur in Silicon Valley, the network the people, like, what we're talking about here is environment, you need that you need that. I mean, for example, Canada. In Ottawa, I'm not in my mantra that there was an environment for sure. But wherever you are, doesn't matter. Like a country wise, you feel that there are opportunities here. If you have the idea, if you have the motivation, if you have this, like, Okay, I'm going to do it, if you have this motivation here, you know, that nothing can stop you. But this is not the case for all the countries. You have to either be really lucky or you have to be like, you know, people, really, you have to have this kind of network. Yeah, there are people of course, there succeed in these countries. Of course, I cannot say that. You can't you can. This is no way. No, I'm not saying of course you can. But I mean, having an idea and to become a giant is more possible here.   Pouya LJ  22:58 Yeah, there's definitely more opportunities more different. No, I agree. So I guess there is another element to the courage that you're basically mentioning, and that is, well, first of all, you need ambition, you need a reason to move. Now, in your case is ambition. Sometimes it's something else. But in your case, it seems to be the ambition, and I think it's the same in my case. And then you need also to be slightly adventurous, if not extremely adventurous, you need to be at least slightly adventurous to step into the unknown and be comfortable with that. So you take you take a courage, you take a reason to have to move to uproot your life. Otherwise, why would you? Well, it was you seem to be an idiot. And you need to be adventurous to a degree. Would you say that's, that's probably the base criteria for somebody to emigrate?   Tugrul  23:46 I mean, you're right, definitely encourages and being adventurous, I think they all combine the single point, which is, I think, not being scared of failing. If you if you're not scared of failing, I mean, if you're like, Okay, I can fail first time, second time, third time. Now, no worries, this life goes on. As long as I'm alive. And as long as I'm capable of doing stuff, my brain works or I can do something as long as I can do that. Nothing can stop you. You can fail. Of course, you're gonna fail you're gonna fail because you're trying something new. If you're not failing, you're it means that you're not learning not trying something new. It that means that you are following successful people because they pass this road and they like design. Now you cannot fail on this road. You're just following it that you're not learning. You're just like, clot and like I was called, like, you're just doing exactly the same. They did but in a way that when they became successful, you're not taking the part that they failed, but for sure you should be able to accept that you're going to fail. And you're not going to scale of that. If you're scared of failing, this is not the correct way you for your life that then you shouldn't maybe emigrate, I mean, you can still, you know, that can I   Pouya LJ  25:22 don't think I don't think you can really emigrate without failure, like it will be there, you're gonna make mistakes because you don't know them. As you mentioned, you have the culture shock, you have all these problems that you just don't know a lot of things. Honestly, even if in your perfect environment, it's impossible to not make mistakes and fail, but the odds will be multiplied 10 times 100 times 1000 times as much, because that's just the nature of things, you're stepping into the unknown. And when there's lots of uncertainty, the chances of making a mistake goes higher. But then that's okay. That should be okay. So that's where the, as you mentioned, the courage and adventures converge, essentially, and then you need the reason. Now, for some people, it's just ambition, or, you know, curiosity, or both. For some people, it's just, you know, what I want to give my children children a better life, potentially, or I want this or that. And for some people, unfortunately, it's not a choice. They're forced, as forced upon them. Okay, so let's just move on a little bit before we come to the close of this episode. So next episode, we'll talk about a little bit more about the entrepreneurship aspect of it. But I just wanted to address because we mentioned the bureaucracy. So as with all governments, when you deal with them, they tend to be a bit bureaucratic. And that obviously creates a lot of hurdles. Now, one of the advantages of I guess, specifically United States, and I guess in recent years, Canada has been that actually to try to remove lots of these bureaucracy to a high degree or reduce them, at least, when it comes to talent when it comes to entrepreneurs, when it comes to investors. So that you can tap into a pool of talent, and capital all over the world, not only within your own confined borders. And I guess that's one of the success stories of America that actually, United States specifically, I mean, America is a continent, the United States of America has been that the one of the stories has been the fact that they were able to attract the best of the best talents all around the world. And they've done that by trying to, specifically the past, but maybe less so presently, but then cannabis taking place a little bit. They have been trying to do that by reducing those beers, because they basically gave people a chance to, you know, focus on your own thing. Focus on things that you're actually good at. And of course, there's going to be some bureaucracy, that's just impossible, as you deal with governments that want to make sure that who you are, that their borders are made safe, that you're not misrepresenting yourself in one way or another. So there is going to be a little bit of that. And governments being the huge entities that they are not really good at producing these bureaucracies actually add to it. That's just the nature of things. So what do you think can be done in the case of entrepreneurial entrepreneurship or generally speaking, talent acquisition, from the standpoint of a country, let's say, like Canada, or any country, for that matter, that wants to accept immigrants and wants to accept talents? Or, you know, specific kinds of work workforce in different industries doesn't matter? What can be done in your personal experience? Now, you had the experience of Canada and had a very specific experience. Of course, I had a slightly different experience, but similar in terms of being theocratic. So what are the Do you have any thoughts? Have you thought about it? What can be done to or Not? Not? Specifically? I'm not talking about specific things, but directionally is there general ideas that you think can help with reducing this tension and allowing talent to just flourish?   Tugrul  29:17 Yeah, I mean, it kinda is doing actually good when I was like, like in this intrapreneurship program, the last day they mentioned me this intrapreneurship immigration program, I didn't know that before like it you had to apply it. Like, we just I was in Montreal. So the problem was, I couldn't speak French so I couldn't apply for the permanent residency, but I didn't know you can apply for intrapreneurship program even within within Montreal in Quebec. So if I knew it before, but the thing is, like you have three months, but usually it like takes one one and a half year. So in any As I won't be able to, like I couldn't probably get my permanent residency, even that case to build my startup. But this is tricky. To be honest. There are lots of talents around the world, of course, the country's companies, are they fighting to get this talent? But while you're like if you make things so easy for people to emigrate the country with talent, of course, is something good. But you have to care about the society also, like who you are like, like a given residency, these guys are, okay talented. But who are they? I mean, maybe they are not. Some of them. They are not like, they can be rude. They can make things harder for other people. You never know. I mean, just because they are mine doesn't mean that they are just struggling with other people.   Pouya LJ  31:04 Yeah. In my experience, criminals are very talented, especially the successful ones, but you don't Oh, yeah. Okay, so yeah, that's a good example. Yeah. You want to make sure that you're letting in the right kind of people and not international criminals, for example. Oh, yeah. Maybe very talented. But nevertheless, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I know. It's a level. Yeah. Yeah.   Tugrul  31:27 I mean, the software level, maybe hackers, they mean they are just stealing people's information, credit nerds, etc. They are so extremely talented. But then you're saying, okay, so you're talented. Come to my country. Still people here   Pouya LJ  31:40 like, no, it is. It is a tricky business. I understand that. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. I think overall, Canada is not the worst for by any stretch of the imagination is doing pretty. Okay. Pretty good overall. Still, I think there are some aspects of bureaucracy that can be trimmed. If not, yeah, they're doing pretty good. But yeah. So   Tugrul  32:02 leaving times alone, for example, can be reduced this processing times? That can be much better. Of course,   Pouya LJ  32:09 people have options. Yes. You don't have to stress about it. If, for example, you get a rejection of some sort, and you have the time to respond to it in a timely manner. Yeah, I agree. I think I think that would be probably the best place to start to actually reduce this processing times. All right, we'll continue this discussion, of course, specifically, more on the entrepreneurship side. But before we close, though, is there anything you want to mention that we missed? Or you wanted to talk about that? We haven't?   Tugrul  32:43 No, not so far. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's tricky. Yeah, I agree. This everything is tricky. This is tricky for government. This is tricky for immigrant. I mean, this is not easy for anybody. Everybody is just trying to make things better. Immigrants, they are trying to make their lives better, or they're, like me, them and they have some they have ambition, and they also want to provide a better life for their kids for like, their belongings. And so you can do this here. And you just You need courage. So as long as you have courage, okay, that you can fail. I mean, there are things that are tricky, of course, you can hold you back for some time, you can just get mad, but you have to focus on the feature, not the problems, you always have to you should always have to focus on the solution, not the problem. Problem is there focusing on the problem is not going to solve the problem by itself. Focusing on the solution is going to help you to solve that problem. Most of the people or they miss this, but they just focus on the problem. Okay, I have this problem mine. I hate this. I hate that. Yeah, I am complaining also like, everybody complains because it's a good way of releasing energy, they have tension. But at the end of the day, the seriously you take this focusing on the solution part more serious. Complaining is something else. But focusing on problem is another thing, not that you shouldn't focus on that so you don't need to scared of immigrating. Just think about what you can achieve afterwards. But if Okay, let's say that if I immigrate to Canada, I want to immigrate to Canada. I want to move there. And I believe there are these are going to be problem this is going to be problem. Okay? But think about what you can do here. You can start a business you can find a good job. You can do something in quantum computation. You can do something good in AI. You can Go to a very high ranking university, you can study neuroscience, I mean, of course, there are like lots of opportunities, you have to focus on that you have to focus on what you're going to do next. Yeah, but meanwhile, governments are also struggling have to make have to pick talent and correct people, for the society to make the society better, of course. Yeah, because everybody wants to have a society that everybody gets along well, everybody shows respect to each other, like, everybody's happy, they can focus only on the things they they love, like, for example, you ai me a quantum computation, to, to move this technology move the science forward, let's let's move everything in a better way, like, like, let's focus on how we can make this work better in terms of how we can live better how we can make the technology better science and how we can make more discoveries, how we can go to other galaxies or the planets, how we can colonize them how we can mine the streets, we should focus on this because at the end of the day, we were just polluting our, like our home with mining, we need those chemicals, of course, because of many things. But if we focus all together, on the future, and on the things that we can achieve all together, like on the space, even like in the science, tech and anything art, I mean, everything just focus on improving things. It is the way how it evolves. I mean, it's the way how we should go instead of like fighting each other.   Pouya LJ  36:54 Yeah, has always been agreed. That makes a lot of sense.   Tugrul  36:57 No, I can't at this point. But   Pouya LJ  37:00 that's good. Actually, this is this is something we're going to continue talking about, the more the you know, the entrepreneurship aspect, the you know, the the innovation and improvements aspect. For sure it will start next episode, we'll continue that this conversation basically. From will we'll move on a little bit from immigration side, but we'll maneuver more on entrepreneurship and the Lean Startup philosophy that you were telling me about so we'll be could delve into that a little bit. All right. So I'm not going to say goodbye because we already said that we're going to have that next episode very soon. About Yeah, about the entrepreneurship aspect. But I do want to say goodbye to our audience. And I as always, I'm really glad that you guys tune in, listen to us. I hope you enjoyed it. And I hope you will join in next month. Thank you all for joining and until next episode.   Tugrul  38:01 Yep. Thank you very much. See you everybody. Take care.

The Polyglot Guidebook written by Daniel Molgan is now available in paperback and kindle on Amazon. In this episode Daniel reads the introduction of this book for you so that you can understand whether you should get yourself a copy to become fluent in speaking any foreign language! 

In this episode of the BTP Podcast, Pouya speaks with Tugrul Guner, a Physicist by training and Machine Learning Engineer by trade. Enjoy!   Tugrul's Social:  Twitter: https://twitter.com/Tugrul_Guner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tugrulguner/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS quantum optics, arrogance, imaging, materials, physics, degree, confidence, observe, kinda, people, agree, thinking, science, human, quantum mechanics, postdoc position, field, evolved, point, question SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Tugrul   Pouya LJ  00:00 Well hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of the b2b podcast. We've been away for a while I have for sure. But I am back with a very great friend of mine, tool gunner, and I am happy to introduce him to you what a legendary man he is. He has okay. Oh, you know what? I'm not gonna give you the introduction. I'll let him introduce himself the way he he sees fit. Hey, Joe, how are you doing?   Tugrul  00:43 I'm good, by the way, are legendary?   Pouya LJ  00:48 No, no, I know you well enough to give you that, you know, give you that adjective. So that's all well deserved? For sure. All right, turtle. So why don't you give us a very brief but comprehensive background about yourself, the way you see yourself from your academic background personally. Yeah, go ahead.   Tugrul  01:10 Yeah, sure. Sure. I will start with when everything changed in my life. I was like, I was not cared about anything before, like last year of my high school. So I was like, playing video games going out like playing soccer. And the classes were like, I wasn't. I had zero interest at all. But I wonder I was reading a lot. I was like, I was kind of reading lots of different books, different types of books, mostly like fantasy books, like Dragon land series, forgotten mediums. It all started with a lot of things by the way. Yeah, anyway, but that was also another story. My father, like, gave that present to me like a lot of drinks book. But the second book, he just grabbed a random book from there probably, like, just grab the second book. And then I Oh, what's this looks let me read the first one. Then I started with the Lord of the Rings. Okay. But back then I was reading this Dan Brown's book called demons and angels, or whatever. Demons.   Pouya LJ  02:22 Read the book, but I've watched the movie. Okay.   Tugrul  02:24 Yeah, I also watched the movie, but I don't know. Like, it was a good book. I'm not sure. But the thing that just like was interesting to me when they were talking about like, antimatter. So I just, like stuck at that point, like, Oh, my God, what is this? Like, I never heard of this before antimatter. Like, I wasn't even interested in physics. Okay. No, no, no, no, but antimatter was like, something changed. What? I never heard of this before. And I realized that I mean, we have lots of things we don't know. That was the, like, a break point in my life. Okay. We're, we're just pretending that we are we know stuff that based on our observations, these are like a micro sis macro systems that we are observing daily, like mostly, like, wearing like an eternal outdoors, we all know, so we just ever have that. Like, I mean, if you drop something, it just falls down. Like it's a gravity, I mean, this kind of stuff. But I that was something different. You can observe it you need to be in that field to know what is antimatter. So that was a some kind of like, a break point in my life. Okay, then, I started to read a couple of things about it, then I noticed that oh my god, this is something else. There's another world inside of this like, like quantum mechanics, even though I had no idea what quantum mechanics is, but I was like reading uncertainty principles, something is not clear. But something sounds are like, interesting, like, Oh my God, what's happening here, like the universe is not really like, observed something more and more. I mean, then, last year, in my high school, I develop interest in the physics as you expect, like, then I was like, for the my bachelor degree, I have to study physics. And I have to I have to become a theoretical physics physicist. I mean, because I really wanted to understand everything. That didn't happen, of course, but I'm gonna mention that I'm going to talk about it. So So I in in my country, for bachelor's degree, you have to take an exam and after the exam, you need to write the university and discipline like this university physics. This university for example, electrical engineering   Pouya LJ  05:00 to give his background so when you're originally from Turkey, so you do your Bachelor's there. Yes. Okay. Go ahead.   Tugrul  05:10 Yeah, yeah, my masters and PhD there too, but Right, so, so you have limits, of course. So you can just write 20 University and 20 different subnets. So I wrote physics for all of them. Because I was like, obsessed. So, yeah, I just got into physics. But it was kind of disappointing. Like, okay, I was kind of, I mostly like, thinking about this ideas, thinking about how universe should work. And this kind of like a philosophical way of Lego discussions, I've kind of mostly like that way of it. But mathematics. When it starts to become complicated, you start to lose control of your thoughts. Also, sometimes, like, if it gets too complicated, you start to focus mostly on the mathematics to solve that problem. You're getting away from your first idea, and you can find yourself with into different concepts, different mathematical tools. Of course, it can guide you different discoveries, of course, but you need to, you need to have that skill to have fun with this mathematics. I didn't have that one. So still, I was like, kinda stubborn. So I wanted to do my master's degree also in physics, which did the quantum mechanics from from the fundamentals, which was focusing on the foundations of it like, main things like fundamental things. So we published a paper about quantum tunneling. Because there was a problem about estimating time in quantum mechanics. And tunneling is a phenomenon that happens in time, even though there were people that researchers like arguing about maybe instantaneous, maybe it's not time dependent, but we found the time for that, which we published. It was a nice journey for me, but then I changed my topic, like, very like a, like a 100 watt, like 180 degrees, like, just back with like, a different direction. Which I started doing my like a PhD in material science and engineering, talking about the relevant components.   Pouya LJ  07:35 The way you say. It was 180 degrees deviation. One would think this is a you went to art since fallen artists. No, I'm kidding. Within the realm of physics, you didn't want it okay. Yeah,   Tugrul  07:51 I mean, like, change my direction, like, I mean, it all you can also call it 90 degrees to I mean, I was just like I did, I was like, spanning somewhere else. Yeah, I started to work on some applications. I was kinda materials, material scientist, I was working on polymers, polymer composites, emissive materials, like I was mostly working on alternative materials for the white LEDs, because in LEDs, especially white LEDs, you were using phosphorus, which they contain, like rare earth elements. So I was trying to develop new materials or trying to increase the efficiency of the this phosphor materials inside the tube. It was nice, it was a efficient pH like I published like kinda 20 papers, because it's an application is not a theoretical physicist. So it was kinda like it's highly liked, like you can publish papers, as long as you develop something and you showed us an increase those improvement, it works. Or you even you can come up with a new material, which we were there was like a sample. One kind of material was very popular back then we even published a couple of papers awarded called halide perovskites. Yeah, so I was kinda like optimistic about my postdoc. Because like, 20 papers, so I was like, okay, I can find a good postdoc position around the world, but it didn't go that way. I applied like 600 700 positions with a detailed applications. I didn't get a response from most of it. Probably some I didn't even send the second secondary email to them, but probably they went and noticed, like one of them just, he's a Turkish professor. Also, he's a professor in Montreal,   Pouya LJ  09:59 Montreal. Canada, yes,   Tugrul  10:00 that's Montreal in Canada. So that's he sent me like the position and offered me the postdoc position, which was an amazing subject. It's called water fast electron transmission electron microscopy, which transmission electron microscope by itself is a characterization tool that can image materials at nano scale, which is like 10 to the minus nine is like, how much like 1000 Lower magnitudes higher magnitudes than the human hair, right in 1000, it was micron, so, probably around 1000. Similar things from the human hair. Even more, I don't know, like, probably some that kind of scale. So we were basically imaging nanomaterials at the Nano scale, like we were characterizing them trying to understand the shape some of the properties, but this is regular transmission electron microscopy, ultra fast transmission electron microscopy is where you are integrating your microscopy with laser. Now, you don't only have this imaging, you also have this laser, which you can also send it to your material and observe what's happening when your metal or nanoparticles are interacting with the laser. Which brings, we call it the time dependency for your observations, which is from imaging, a now you start to record movies, and you can visualize what they're doing and understand the interaction of places in time. So, by the way, my professors professor in Caltech, his name was like Zewail, he, like, got the Nobel Prize for this invention, mostly, you got the Nobel Prize for them to chemistry, but this was the part of the invention. So yeah, that that, in today in the world, there are only four or five facilities that can do this. ultra fast transmission electron microscopy is an expensive tool. After that, like I studied two and a half years in Montreal, Canada for as a postdoc, and my second postdoc, I came to Ottawa in Canada again. This time, it is a completely different lab, it is a quantum optics lab, because I also like I am enjoying it. I know I love quantum mechanics. So I came also like to learn quantum optics. And I was planning to apply some of my AI skills. Of course, I don't have any professional skills because I didn't study AI. I didn't study machine learning in any of my degrees. But I, since I love AI and coding, I always like, during my free time as a hobby. I also I tried to improve myself a lot. So then I started to combine quantum optics with deep learning because in quantum optics, you have noisy like results and etc. So you can combine them with the deep learning etc, we   Pouya LJ  13:27 can we take a step back, so can you tell tell me like what is actually quantum optics? Like, can you delve into it? What does that mean? Okay, optics is? Oh, yes, in the quantum, but how do they go together?   Tugrul  13:38 Yeah, of course, I cannot explain that like an expert of it because I work from the burning. But   Pouya LJ  13:43 even if you did, I wouldn't understand.   Tugrul  13:47 In Visual optic isn't just that it's the light. So you don't have to you don't need to have a like coherency, which means that like some kind of like, coherent motion or coherent interaction of your light. Like as a, like a physicist standpoint is like, How can I select it's not random, the photons in the light, if they're not acting random, they are acting in a coherent way. So they have some kind of correlation between them. So regular light is you don't have this year. They're just like, moving. They're just moving like in spacetime. But when you're talking about quantum optics, you need to use some kind of generator of this coherent light because light itself is not generating it with regular light sources. For example, we were using different crystals. You're sending your laser to these crystals. And these crystals are so special that they create coherent light, which they are correlated in the momentum. degrees of freedom. And I mean, they go into two different paths read up, I mean, when you hit them with the laser, out of the crystal, you have two life paths. One goes one direction, or the goals pregnant, the perpendicular direction. The main property of this two beam is their entangled, momentum entangled. So   Pouya LJ  15:25 this one, so the past crystal,   Tugrul  15:28 yeah, after they passed, the crystal crystal generates, of course, what was the efficiency of this generation like 8% 10%, maybe, I mean, it's a lot less not that high,   Pouya LJ  15:41 so you get better you preserve. So the light that comes up at the end of it is less than 50% of what you actually put into it.   Tugrul  15:49 Of course, yes, of course. So you have less light now, but you see that they are momentum in the momentum, degree of freedom, they are correlated, I mean, entangled. One is plus one is exactly the same moment with the negative value. What we can do is that, so if you observe the two beams, so imagine that you have two cameras, one is observing the, one of the beams or the other one is observing the other view. So you have triggers for these cameras. So one photon, when one photon hits one camera, it checks exactly the same time, the other one grabs any photon signal. So if the two photon hits the camera at the same time, you're saying that, okay, two entangled photons, alright. Other than that, you're not capturing anything. These cameras are own only when two photons are era, photons arrive these two different cameras at the same time. Because they, of course, you're designing your optical path in such a way that they like they travel the same distances. Yeah. Okay, because its speed of light is constant. So they have to travel the same distance. So they're like interesting applications of this, if you put an object in one of these beams, if you try to collect the other beam, it gives you the image of the object without touching it. What I mean is that, for example, you have two beams. And in one of the path of one of the beams, if you put an object, you know that right, so some of light is going to pass some of them not because they're gonna be absorbed or reflected by the object. Yeah, so other beam says they're correlated and entangled. So when you get the camera when these photons get the camera, so they are going to be triggered only with the other photons that are passed and reach to the camera. So you're going to have a kind of image of the object with other beam, which has nothing on this path. I mean, this kind of the this is called Ghost imaging. Maybe I just was so bad.   Pouya LJ  18:12 No, no, I think I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Not good boy. Yeah.   Tugrul  18:16 Let's go. Yeah, it's I mean, it was like I was kind of trying to develop a deep learning algorithm to make the resulting images better increase the resolution of it, because you can guess that there's a noisy array. So they're very noisy. Yeah, no, that was a nice thing. Also, I was enjoying working with the group and professional. But so like, last year? Yes, this year right. Now, this year, this is not last year. So I just got an offer. This is really hard to keep track of time. Yeah, exactly. Thanks to COVID. I received an offer from a company, which is not related to my research background, I started to work as a machine learning operations engineer, which are used my skills that I developed during my free time, which I recall, was considering them as my hobbies. Yeah. Yeah, that's a kind of Sir. I mean, I am kinda like, also, like, not because only that was just happened in that way. Not because of that, but also kinda like jumping from subject to subject. Because, I mean, there are lots of things to learn. And I know I'm not gonna be able to learn everything that I want to learn, but still, I'm trying to do my best to learn there's   Pouya LJ  19:47 a there's a huge degree of attention people give to, you know, specializing in something which is like, of course important. I'm not debating the significance of that but I think I Sometimes it gets missed how, how good it is to actually do these jumps between in between topics in that, it gives you a broader sense of understanding because sometimes some knowledge that you gain in one field, although it's not necessarily you're not a specialized, you're not an expert in that field per se. But then it can that knowledge can be analogous in a different field. So it gives you some sort of perspective, I feel. At least that's my personal I had a similar experience, I have a similar experience. And I even for my academic background, I had a similar experience. I didn't know really what I wanted. So I really liked physics. I really like computer science programming, software engineering. I don't know I liked philosophy. I liked psychology I liked, you know, I even liked cinema, like I still do. Photography, cinematography. So it took me a long while to land on where I landed, ultimately. But so yeah, I did jump around quite a bit, too. And I think it is important not to discount it. I'll do a specialization is very important. Again, I'm not doubting that. But I think sometimes when we focus Oh, yeah, you have to specialize. It's what do they say? There's a good thing. Yeah, I don't remember the same but something something and then master of none. Anywhere. Yeah. So it means like, you're you're, you know, so many things, but then you're not a master in any of them. And they see that in it in a in a in a negative direction. Not that either. But there's in a negative way with a negative connotation, meaning it's a bad thing. And I understand they're saying, okay, mastery is important. Of course it is. But one of the things you can master is how to learn different things. And I think that is also important. Anyways, sorry to cut you off, but I just wanted to Yeah, but   Tugrul  21:59 you're right. I think I learned how to learn during all of this time. Yeah,   Pouya LJ  22:03 that's right. That's right. And, and how to think how to think because, again, when you, when you become a master in one very narrow, specific field, then you're very comfortable learning things in that field, but not necessarily in other fields. And you'll get used to and accustomed to thinking a certain way, but not another. If you will, your neural pathways are very much aligned with a certain thing. And I guess in in AI, you're saying you're kind of like memorizing that, that the training set, right. You're overfitting in a way. So that's, that's, that's that's the danger with with over mastering in a very narrow field. I think it's, it's my, from from a personal perspective, of course, it's not going to harm anybody, per se, but it can harm you mentally, not physically.   Tugrul  22:57 But also the other side of it is like, okay, but other than that, like he was, you also, can there's also risk that you can be like, underfitting, I mean, like, he is like, you can have some generalization issue. So, I mean, you can stay like it's not overfitting sense, but I'm kinda you can stay like a generalized way. How can I describe like, you don't have for example, for myself, I have some confidence issues too. So I never I in my life, I never think I am 100% sure of anything. Maybe that's the issue. If you are if I got an expert on some kind of special if I have some kind of specialty if I study or work on something that 20 years, maybe I can build that confidence that level, but   Pouya LJ  23:53 it's tricky. Yeah. Yeah, no, I know. i It's very tricky. I think I agree with you. I don't I don't think I know. I can be 100% Like, I will never give the number 100 I'm 100% sure I'm even if I'm really 100% Sure. I'm 99.999% Sure. Yeah, and okay, but maybe that's part of it. But it's a tricky line though. There's a very fine line between between confidence and arrogance, I think and and that's another issue that arises like you know, when you're too much of an expert in something you're one of the very few in the world who knows something about something then then the ego plays a role and then sometimes it seems it may seem like confidence, but it is actually arrogance. And we see that like I mean the academia that there's plenty of it of course in industry there's plenty of it. There's everywhere like there's plenty of it right? So yeah, I know I confidence aside, you need to like Grow your confidence and all that of course you know you personally but like the rhetorical you any individual needs to go to come Because, of course, but then there's also another aspect of it that I think, you know, I like the fact that I am I remain not 100% Sure on things because I always give myself room to self correct to admit that I was wrong too. Because like, for example, otherwise you become like this politicians like didn't do clearly they're not even sure like, they're not even like if you talk to them in person in a backroom, with nobody listening, no microphones, no nothing with their buddies, for example, they're gonna be like, Yeah, and I don't know, maybe. But then but then they come out and, you know, say with such confidence, because that's how they have to play the game of politics. Right. But then again, you but then that makes them not able to self sorry, course correct. You know, acknowledge mistakes. So I think the fact that you're, you, myself included, like we are, you know, not? How do we say is not? I'm not saying they're not sure, but we leave room for error, or mistake. Because it's how I look at it. It's, even if I am very much comfortable in the field, let's put the word expert or master aside, even if I'm very comfortable in the field, and I have sufficient knowledge i i feel uncomfortable saying that I am 100% sure that something is true or not, or I think that's me leaving myself room that, you know, maybe when I may even caveat that did saying that the current knowledge. And with my current understanding, yes, I'm 100% Sure. But okay, there might be something that I don't know about that, but certainly something that I don't know about and a lot of different ways, maybe in that particular field too. And maybe there's error in the way I think about the world because if history is any indication. Most people most of the time have made mistake, I don't know any famous or infamous individual in the history that you can name that did everything perfectly. Yes. Just outright impossible. And if they if the written record, say that, which I have never heard of any individual, but let's say even if the hidden rows are written record, say that you don't know if they're hidden lives. And anyway, so that's what I think. I don't know. My point is that I think that's not necessarily a bad thing. Although it can have some downfalls in sometimes you seem, may may not even be because I know you'd like your to your humble individual. And sometimes you you know, you're not comfortable. being super confident in your but then, like, I know you like I know that the grasp of your knowledge is high enough that you if you were an arrogant prick, you would be like, Yeah, I'm 100% Sure, get get lost. Right. So, but then you're not that's that's the whole   Tugrul  28:01 thing. No, I mean, I don't understand how you can be like that. How you can be 100% Sure for something doesn't make sense. I mean, today we don't we have so many questions, even Newton dynamics, you can question them, even people came up with like a modification or to Newton dynamics, you can't be 100% Sure, even your observations are like, sinful to fit. With the models you have no, I mean, you can miss something your brain evolved some millions of years as a result of like, trillions of different paths, like a survival tricks, like some extinction, etc, etc. But you're still evolving, your brain is still evolving Darla, so you don't know how much room left for your brain that can evolve, which can be huge, which I think can be huge, because we are probably far from being like reaching the optimal optimum point. I don't even know if there is an optimum point. I don't think so even though we have here like we have full of weaknesses, flaws. And we are not even sure that our brain is really a good tool, even like a perfect tool. Even understanding nature. Maybe this is our problem. Maybe we are not going to be able to solve the universe because our brain is not capable enough of understanding it.   Pouya LJ  29:23 Yeah, no. No, I don't I honestly don't know how you can do that. I think it's not that being too short is a byproduct of arrogance. That's my guess. Like, because the more humble people I've seen, the less sure they seem people who tend to be more humbled who tend to not be arrogant or egotistical. They seem that, you know, they don't seem like that they lack confidence. They're fairly confident, but they're very comfortable admitting that I don't know everything. And I can't possibly know everything. And I may be wrong from time to time. I may I may be wrong a lot of the times, I think that is, again, this is my observation. I don't have empirical evidence to back this hypothesis. But this is my personal observation, the more you know, grounded people I've seen the more humble people I've seen, the less they have that ability to be like, No, this is done. This is settled. And, and let's, let's take a point recently, something from a very recent history, and that was like during COVID, the COVID science, there was plenty of arrogance from very established either scientists or officials in the authorities of science, quote, unquote, that they were like, saying things that you know, this is established science, you should believe it. This is no, this is true. The lab leak is no, I'm not saying that. The you know, COVID leaks from the lab, but they were not even they were they were treating you as a either stupid or racist if you even questioned it. And I was like, How can you be so sure it leaks from not leaked from the lab, and it came from nature, when you don't even know the source of sort of like the origin of species of this thing? How can you be so arrogant about it? And then I gave myself the answer. I was really thinking that and I gave myself the answer. I was like, yeah, that's arrogant. That's why like, there should be no room for arrogance, the human arrogance and, or any kind of arrogance as matter of fact, but we only know one kind. And that's the human arrogance. There should be no room for arrogance in science, but unfortunately, there is. So I think that's that. I think I'd rather being too sure. Is a symptom of arrogance is or is a byproduct of arrogance, I don't know. But they go together. I think that's what that's where he I see it.   Tugrul  31:56 I think this guy, this is kinda like a defense mechanism like this kind of people. I think, probably I'm not sure, of course. They think that they think that maybe, if they're if people start to think that there is a room of questioning their knowledge, they think, in this case, they think they're weak. So that's why they are pretending that they know 100 person, should they become like arrogant? No, you cannot question my knowledge. Yeah. Because they don't want to be seen weak, or maybe they have a higher position in somewhere. If they, maybe they think that if they seem weak, they can lose their status, they lose their position, whatever. I think that's the opposite.   Pouya LJ  32:45 Yeah, so okay, I completely agree. But I also disagree that is completely opposite. I think it's kind of the opposite, depending on how you depending on the area, I think, so for, for, for somebody who's claiming that they are the authority, like a king, or an emperor, or a queen, or whatever, right. So that person needs to maintain that authority. So they need to be listened to and accepted. Right. Okay. So that's that. But that's why I'm saying this should be. So that's, of course, the end. And they lose the grasp if they don't, or they feel that way. Again, it's not necessarily true, I agree with you, if, if a Emperor King was humble, and was like, you know, I'll do my best or even a political leader, I do my best to the best of my abilities to lead, but I'm a human, I'll make mistakes, if they admitted that they probably win a lot of votes. But that's aside, when you're talking about science and technology, you know, specifically science because it's in my mind need to present it should represent something very pure, and remove the elements of human human nature, but rather be a method to evaluate to think essentially. That's why we call it the scientific method, right? It has to leave the interpersonal inter, to like within the human character, human species, ugliness out of it. Of course, it's not going to happen because it's just humans. So I think that's exactly that's the specific area that I agree with you it actually is not. If if you're wrong, and you admitted it, that's the sign of strength. And, and I think people do, maybe not consciously understand that themselves, or or think about it that way. But they really appreciate when you admit a mistake, because then they can rely on your words. Be like, you know what, this guy is not full of shit. This guy admits when he's wrong. If somebody constantly when they when they caught in a lie, or when they caught in a mistake, they still insist, then how can I trust them? So I think I agree with you They just feel that they lose. It's a defense mechanism, they feel like they're losing the grasp on of authority, which is not really true. They're they're losing it when they enforce it too harshly. There was a quote, I don't remember where I heard it or who I heard it from. But basically, it was saying power is like sand in your fist, the more you try to hold on to it, the easier it will spill out of your fist. And if you doubt that just go on a beach someday, not you, anybody who's listening and go grab a because I thought that I thought about I tried to go grab a handful of fist so sad. and strengthen the tighten your wrist fist, rather, and squeeze, the sand will spill out at some point you will not but then the more you squeezed, the more it spills out of your your fist. So that's what they're doing. They feel like they have to, like hold on to this sand tight and make sure it doesn't spill out of their fist, but then doing that they're actually squeezing it out of their, their fists, because by tightening their fist, actually, they're occupying the room that the sand should ergo the sand will spill out because their fingers will not get you know, break the nylon screws that tight. Anyways, so So I agree with you. But the issue is that the thinking is wrong, I think.   Tugrul  36:30 Yeah, but I think yeah, I think the root of this behavior is probably we can investigate, like we can discuss in evolutionary evolutionary way. Probably because of the past like, not too long, like like, if you go to check the history even go like ancestors. Being sure is probably this is above, like a, like a living or death issue, life or death issue. Basically, he has to be shared for a couple of things, really. Because otherwise you can die me somebody can write Okay, so maybe it is rooted somewhere there this kind of behavior? Because you instinctively you want to think that you will surely you have to show us your data, you have to strong you have to seem strong.   Pouya LJ  37:20 Because if you're not so sure you remain indecisive. And that's   Tugrul  37:25 it worse than being so sure in the past, like any evolutionary point of view, probably so, but so sorry, sorry, interrupting you. But sorry, what I was thinking is that, like, when I was saying the opposite is better, like not being sure, I was just thinking in the future. So we already evolved, we already have some complex understanding we already not in the part of nature anymore, we don't we're not scared of like, hunted by like a tiger on the way but so we are even like, not natural about like artificially selected. Because we have our system, everybody surviving. So feature, because we don't have these issues in more which is good, which means that we have a long way to go ahead of us that can focus only on humans feature like including science, technology, etc. So we are also like, complex enough to think about our thoughts. We are in a machine that can question itself. And so we are at this level, and so we can start acting like in a mental like in it, we have to start thinking that we have lots of rules that we can improve ourselves and we can learn a lot with no need to be so sure for everything we are not going to die.   Pouya LJ  38:48 Yeah, yeah. So this is where I classify actually I have this because I've thought about this and I wasn't thinking about it right now but I've thought about this in the past, I actually have I call it I mean I don't have a literal definition out there, but I have internal definition I call it these are two different things though. One is how short I am in theory versus how sure I am theory sorry, practically. So how sure I am in theory okay in theory nobody's chasing me. I have all the time in the world to doubt myself. In practice, in real life, when you're facing life or death or or matters of extreme importance, that can be very costly, either monetary or, or, you know, matter of life and literally metal of life and death then then then it becomes important. So then when it's in practice, then I think you should basically act on the best information you have. Like the highest confidence degree you have about anything, you just act on it. That's it. You're done. You don't need to think, think twice or three times. My point is that you can I agree with you, it's probably something evolved in us. But you can still even in that environment in a chaotic West West world, or or even, you know, rules of the jungle kind of thing, you can still have this element of I'm not so sure about everything and still survive. So long as you're like, I'm not 100% Sure, but I'm 90%. Sure. And that 90% is above everything else I'm sure about. So I'm going to act on that knowledge. That's fine. that'll that'll get you out of it and actually, actually probably get you out of it the best. Because you're not acting on a random information, you're acting on the information that you have the highest confidence. You're most shorter, but basically, but you don't have to say I'm 100% sure about that. You just have to be like, I'm sure enough, but I'm going to act on it. And then the question comes, okay, now I'm sure about something 90% on your shirt about something, some what number of a percent, and we have to do one or the other. And then we get into a fight about who's more sure. So it becomes messy. I understand. That's what I'm trying to say. But But anyway, so that's a theoretical, doubting of yourself. And then the practical being sure of yourself. It's Yes, I agree, sometimes being indecisive because when you don't choose, that's a choice. Sometimes people don't choose because they're terrified of their choice. And then that's the choice itself. They don't choose because if they feel if they don't choose they are they can make a mistake. But then that's the mistake itself, because by not choosing, you're choosing. Anyway, it's not to get too philosophical. But I agree. I think it's it's evolved to be in us because if we weren't so sure, then we were indecisive and would be would be eaten by bears and tigers and such.   Tugrul  42:02 So more. And also, I think we just recently learned what is what does that mean that being sure, I think it's it just came with it like a science and technology or understanding about how we can share about something this came with the some physical philosophical questions, because other than that, we can question about being sure because you don't know what, what is it? I mean, being chill. What does that mean? before?   Pouya LJ  42:30 I think there is a meaning before science in the like, Okay, if we take it to before, 2000 years before,   Tugrul  42:37 like, first of all, let's go down to a Greek oak, but the   Pouya LJ  42:41 Greeks will do the same thing. They would disprove each other. Right? They would but but that's but they were doing science. So I grant that. But let's go even further back, let's go 10,000 years ago, I think there was a degree of being sure and unsure. And I think that was linked to discovery because let's say a caveman that went out of the cave, and they were debating is like, No, I'm sure there's something beyond this hill, I gotta go see it. And the other guy was like, How can you be so sure? I don't know. Like, there is nothing beyond that he'll under you're gonna die and we're gonna starve in the cave because you're the hunter. So   Tugrul  43:11 sorry, I don't agree. I think that okay. Mice kind of my story is like, a guy who is like a strongest one on this, like a society that they had just decides instinctively, everybody follows. There was no debate probably.   Pouya LJ  43:27 Right. But but then he can personally be shown that he his confidence was false. For example, He's sure that there's a, you know, there's nothing beyond the hill. But then to prove himself, he goes, and then he realizes, oh, there's something down the hill. So I was wrong.   Tugrul  43:43 Yeah, I agree. I agree. Probably, like a personal, like, initial level of being sure. Very minor. They didn't question the list.   Pouya LJ  43:51 No, I don't I think you may be right. I think it's it started from the ancient Greeks when they started philosophizing and thinking semi scientifically, yes, I think I think   Tugrul  44:02 because you have different information to be understanding, okay, for the same concept, we have two ideas. Okay, which one is correct? Then you can think about, okay, how we can be so sure about which one is more correct. And compare? Yeah, maybe you need the comparison for ideas, at least. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like,   Pouya LJ  44:20 I mean, I think, I think for that, as far as we know, at least, as far as I personally know, I think for that you have to, we can only go as far as the ancient Greeks probably. I mean, I think you may be right if we can, or maybe we just don't know about it, because it wasn't well documented. Who knows? Yeah, again, I'm not sure.   Tugrul  44:40 You never know. I mean, you know, you have to go there and observe it.   Pouya LJ  44:43 Even then, you know,   Tugrul  44:46 because we are we're creating stories based on our findings from like for sales, etc, etc. Like his drawings on the cave. They're all good models, but their stories still, like backed by evidences but that everything can be can still satisfy a like all these findings, but in a different way. So you never know you have to go there and observe it with a time machine, which is not possible. But there was that's what all I got all we got.   Pouya LJ  45:17 Yeah, and, you know, these are very interesting questions, and I think we should explore them more. And I'm very happy that we're going to do this. Okay. So for the audience who are wondering, we will be doing more of these kinds of episodes. Now, this was introductory for us to, you know, discuss with turtle get to know Him and who he is where he came from academically. Because not that not in the sense that academic academia is very important, but because first of all, you spend a lot of your life there. And second of all, because I think that kind of tells you what your interests are, where you're coming from where your perspective is at so. So this was the, you know, introductory episode, but we'll continue this discussions, probably from maybe a little bit more narrowed and talk about specific things into future episodes. But for now, before we come to a close, is there something you want to talk about, whether about yourself or about what we talked about or about anything, really, before we close for this episode?   Tugrul  46:22 No, no, I enjoyed this a lot. So I'm just looking forward to other episodes like we can discuss, but I wasn't expecting to talk about cavemen.   Pouya LJ  46:34 That's the beauty of it. I think. I do like some structure in the in the podcasts, but I don't. And I know everybody has a different, you know, style. And I like those who are super structured and those who are completely unstructured. But for myself, I like to be surprised in my conversations in a way that as you said, I didn't expect so. So anyhow. Yeah, there's a degree of chaos and too much control me ruin it. A little bit, just just as ordered enough that it makes sense. Okay, so with that. Thank you all for listening. And thank you all for joining us with the promise of many more of   Tugrul  47:18 these kinds. Of course, of course, I'm looking forward. Thank you.   Pouya LJ  47:22 Fantastic. And thank you all for tuning in. Tune in for more episodes in the weeks and months to come.

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One of the most common misconceptions regarding the assessment of someone's character is the manner in which they think of themselves and their accomplishments in life. However, there is a fine line between confidence in your abilities and expressions of arrogance. That is precisely what we discuss in this episode of BTP as we contrast it with the feature of modesty which can be indeed a virtue when done in moderation.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS modesty, arrogant, arrogance, people, modest, brag, black belt, talking, confident, achieve, life, hand, self esteem, leaders, insecure, success, achievements, confidence, inspire, express   Pouya LJ  00:08 Hello, ladies, gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of The BTP podcast. As always, I'm joined with Daniel Morgan. How's it going,   Dan  00:16 buddy? What's up guys? What's up Blue Jays, life is great and awesome. I'm so happy to be here with you basically, life is as always amazing. We're now going through the final phase phases basically of this goddamn pandemic. But the Delta variant is still causing some disturbances. But as always, I'm optimistic and life is good. Just waiting for life to move to where it was. And believe me, it will happen. All right, that's okay. Good, good. Confidence, tone, man. That was like a confidence tone.   Pouya LJ  00:50 Exactly. Not only confidence, it was very optimistically confidence. So I like that so lovely. All right, good. Good. I'm very happy to hear that. All right. So okay, today's topic we're talking about. So last week, we talked about to weaken per tooth, you know, phenomenon is called minimalism and luxury. Now recovering to other phenomena is called modesty. And arrogance. So modesty versus arrogance. So what do you make of it? How how much modesty is good, how much arrogance is good? And whereas, which are more important? Yeah, sorry, go ahead.   Dan  01:26 I see before I go ahead and give my assessment, I will actually ask you please find each of these because sometimes people don't know what modesty actually is. Like if someone right forever, perhaps does not, for example, want to have big ambitions, that he's modest. That's not modesty. That's passivity. So let's first go ahead and define properly for our listeners, what modesty and basically, arrogance actually are. So why don't you go to do that for our listeners?   Pouya LJ  01:53 Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point, because we need to get our definitions straight. So yeah, let's, let's say what we're talking about modesty, we basically mean that, it doesn't mean that you're not achieving anything, or you don't want to achieve anything, it doesn't mean that you're not ambitious. what it entails is essentially, you are, you're you are comfortable with not, you know, expressing your your your achievements or your desire to achieve as much as an arrogant person does, or, or, on the other hand, you can you can define it as you are realizing your own limitations within your within your capabilities. And that sense, that sense of realizing those limitation gives you a calm about your position.   Dan  02:42 So you're literally   Pouya LJ  02:44 on the other hand, arrogance, it portrays the opposite behavior, right? arrogance actually goes overboard, like you're achieving 10, then you're bragging, 12, or you're capable, interesting, or you're capable of 1210, but you're not aware of it, and you're going overboard and claiming 15. So that is how I see it, unless you have a slightly different discourse, what   Dan  03:07 you're saying is absolutely true. I just want to add a few points. Mises, D. modesty, basically, as we have noted, basically, it's simply your ability to keep your lips basically accolades to yourself, you see, whatever social success, whatever, you know, personal things, when you keep it to yourself, you're modest. So for example, let's say you have just won the grants for a major, let's say, Blue Origin type of research, because you're a cool astrophysicist from University of Toronto. Now, if you don't tell the whole world about it, including your answer doesn't even know what basically Jeff Bayes actually means. Then you're not exactly very much. So modesty just means you are happy with your success, you keep it to yourself, you don't really share it. Now, arrogance, as you said, well areas isn't just isn't only about you know, showing off, it's more about your attitude towards other people. Those who are arrogant, do not see themselves as superior, so much as they see others as inferior. And they make sure they they know that that right. So that basically they are putting others down, basically. Right. And that's called arrogance. And I believe that both approach, as you probably know, are not in my approaches. Why? Let me explain a moment. If you're so modest, but he achieved a lot of things, give it to yourself. And then you simply can never promote yourself to acquire more success, and others might actually not know what you're up to. So you might actually miss out on a lot of opportunities. If you tell the world that Yeah, I got this great man. Maybe they actually joined forces with you know, far better people to actually have a great lunch. I think they're handing it all to yourself. Yeah, it's easy. I mean, there's nothing noble about now, no modesty because it's easy. Just keep your mouth shut. That's it. You're modest with us. Not gonna necessarily help you achieve a lot of the goals you want to achieve in life, because you are not going to be able to attract enough attention to promote yourself to gain better opportunities and arrogance. Well, that's the sign of lack of self esteem. arrogant people are not show offs. They are those who show up to put others down. You see, if you have, for example, a Lamborghini and it came shown that on your social media story, like oh, check it out. Oh, I'm in my lambos By the way, guys, I'm talking to you. Yeah, I'm going to work now. I'm going to buy my groceries now. What do these things? Honestly projects? How do you feel? I mean, because these feelings are universal. When you see someone intentionally shows off the Lambo in every single store, and every single thing constantly talks about the color of my Lambo. What feeling do you have for this gentleman or lady?   Pouya LJ  05:51 Oh, I just feel like blocking them because I want to exterminate this post from my feed.   Dan  05:57 Because it's not attractive, man knows not attractive. Because we feel like oh, this guy's either lying, or he got it from his daddy, or he's actually faking it, or he's renting it. Because people who are confident in their success, they don't need to always brag about it. So I am not a fan of bragging. I'm not a fan of keeping it to yourself. Now people should do know, basically, if you're a big shot, but ultimately do you want to treat your success for you? or for other people, it's actually relevant a little bit to that luxury versus minimalism. And that when you are not an arrogant person, you don't necessarily need to bring others down. Just because I am rich doesn't mean that others should, you know, suffer looking at my Lambo when they have problems eating. So that reason, I believe that the best approach as always inspired by that, because when you tell others of your ambitions, others people say like, you know, what, why don't I have such ambitions? What does he have that I don't have? And the answer is always nothing, whatever anybody else has, including Jeff Bezos, you have it too. And imagine Jeff Bezos says, like, you know what, guys, I'm going to a trip. I can't tell you exactly what it is. But it's a very long trip. And it was going way up, way up way up. And I'm not talking about like, you know, going to these Fiji Islands. And people are like, Dude, what the hell are you talking about man? because in that case, but people that inspire others, so by sharing your greatness, you actually inspire the world. And let everybody know, dude, this guy came from a very poor background, and he's got all of these things, right? So by sharing your greatness, you actually can treat other people. But there's a huge difference between sharing your missions and accomplishments, versus being arrogant, and bringing others down and bragging to them, like, oh, check out my call, check out my watch, and so on. Yeah, I   Pouya LJ  07:58 think I understand what you mean. And well, I guess, I think is easier to dispute. And, you know, we all know arrogant people in our lives if you're not one. And we know how annoying they can be and how unattractive it is. and all that. modesty, though, I agree with you that it is still the same boat, like you don't want to be 100% modest either. But it has, especially in some culture, it has certain positive characteristics. So Biden by by, you know, by the fact that you are modest, you're getting some social points essentially, though, for you to me, but but for you to exhibit that I am modest, somebody needs to know something immodest about you and then know that you're trying to not brag about it. So it's impossible to be completely modest and everybody knows about it. By nature. So let's let's try and let Now again, I completely agree I you need to sit and that's why I mentioned that you cannot be 100% modest when people know about it, that's just impossible to do just think you don't you don't accomplish shit so. So that's that's that. But is there any place that we can't actually say, say good things about modesty? Is there any benefits in any circumstances?   Dan  09:17 moderation in all things and all things in moderation. As you mentioned earlier? If you are someone who does not overly, you know, basically exaggerate your accomplishments, this actually shows your level of self esteem. Understand, if you really don't need to bring others down to make yourself feel good as arrogant people do, then you do not need to always say like, Oh, please, please tell me how great I am. Because I know who I am. These things oftentimes stem from lack of self esteem and self confidence, and to the degree to which you are confident about yourself. And especially in those areas, because you have to be very confident when it comes to let's say your professional achievements, but very I don't know, perhaps insecure about your success, I don't know what your health or fitness or I don't know what your relationships with the opposite gender. So it is very possible to be quite confident about your money, but very, you know insecure about your wife's like, Oh gosh, I don't want to show it to any of my friends. It's not the wife of a friggin millionaire, Oh, shit. So in that situation, you have to actually look at your life as a whole. And realize, in all those areas where you are more secure about yourself, you generally tend to somehow not want to show off. So I mean, I don't know, some people just don't have a desire to show off how rich they are, because they know they're rich. And I want to thank those who are really rich, as opposed to those who don't take photos of their lambos, 25 times a day. They are the people who actually are rich. That's why it's like, so what's the point? I don't want to show up because I know I'm rich, what's the point. But for that reason, to the guy who's insecure about his, for example, fitness, now puts others down for being fat, or the guy who's in Serrano, some job, they put others down in the same career. So it really comes down to your overall level of self esteem and self confidence. And generally, those who are more confident they tend to be usually more modest. Right, right.   Pouya LJ  11:21 No, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that I think people pick up on that, you know, it's then and that's why I wanted to get at about modesty is that in moderation, as you mentioned. Now, there are certain times as you said, that it pays off to actually share your accomplishments. And I'm not saying bragging about them, per se. You know, you're you're in a social event you're talking is like, oh, what do you do I do this, and I've gone done that and etc. And now you can be proud of it. No problem. You don't have to brag about it, you can still be proud of it. Just imagine   Dan  11:53 you projects, being arrogant when it comes to some talks about, you know, these spaceflights all that like, oh, man, this guy went to sit and like, so let me tell you something about the science behind that your little shit. As a matter of fact, this whole thing has to go to the or from this angle, like, I'm just guessing something like this. But do you actually practice arrogance at all boutiques?   Pouya LJ  12:12 You know, we all have our down moments, I think, and maybe I have done that. But I do my utmost to control that side of me. But again, I'm not shy to be proud of something I accomplished, or something I know. And I distinguished from being in being arrogant about it, you know, meaning that, you know, I know this, and I feel good about it. But it doesn't mean that you can't, it doesn't mean that this is unique to me, or a few people like me, meaning I'm capable, and you're not, it just means that I have done my studies, and I have paid attention to this or that. And I have accumulated this knowledge and I know about it, that's, that's so in, in this specific sense. I mean, you can talk, you can say the same thing about, you know, something in business and income and, you know, worth of how much money you have. So you can say similar things. So in that sense, I think I distinguish being proud about your accomplishments or your knowledge, or whatever it is, versus being arrogant about it. As you said, arrogance is kind of about, you know, putting others down, meaning I have this in a way, but but then, but then it doesn't stop there. It goes to say I'm unique, and you're unable to actually achieve this, or accomplish this, or do this or know this, etc. So it has that element of I am able and you're not the kind of thing that I don't like, personally, because on the other hand, I'm a teacher, I know what people are capable or given the, you know, the right platform, the right, you know, scenery, to express themselves and to develop themselves grow, you know, do business, etc. So, so in that sense, I try to, I think I'm leaning towards a modest side, but again, sometimes I'm, I'm proud of my own, you know, achievements, accomplishments, because, you know, it takes it takes takes a lot takes, takes a lot of work and sleepless nights to study some of these topics that you're speaking of specifically. So I'm like, you know, I think I earned my brownie points, I'm gonna I'm gonna spend them some of them to feel good. So yeah, I think i think that i think that's the that's where I, where I lie in that in that spectrum. And I think, Now, tell me, tell me, tell me if I'm wrong, I think you you will have good insight into this. But I think there's a there's a degree of badness or let me say a little bit better. There's a decree there's sorry, there's a balance of confidence, and modesty, I think, in leadership positions that actually can bring a lot of people together.   Dan  14:42 Absolutely. I mean, just take a look at you know, the last disaster president basically left the White House. Realize that in all top positions, we despise leaders who are arrogant, we despise leaders who feel like they are some special snowflake somehow And everybody should treat them because you're so friggin special. We, as a species do not like these people, believe it or not. Now, there are a very small number of people who suffer from lack of self esteem, who find these things attractive. But the majority of us, we are repelled by that kind of behavior, right? Which is why it's so incredibly important to know that the higher your position, the more you have to show empathy. And the less arrogance is tolerated by your followers, because that arrogance makes them question your true integrity as a leader. I mean, if you really feel like you're the best, why do you keep talking about it? If you really feel like you're rich? Why do you keep showing up all the stuff? I mean, it's like a scan or something? I mean, is it real? Or are you really if you feel like you're the strongest and most powerful person in the world, then why are you so insecure about these things? So people start asking questions, and that is why, by modesty and not trying to constantly brag or bring others down, you actually tell the world that yes, I am. That guy. And that's going to basically impress everyone in this regard. to want to follow each one to listen to you. And egotistical leaders, arrogant leaders, as we've seen, will always go down.   Pouya LJ  16:17 Yeah, that's exactly I think, I think, I think you're right, absolutely. In the sense that, you know, higher you are, you have to be less arrogant or rather natural, less arrogant is tolerated. So by definition, you   Dan  16:30 have to be a democratic systems, it's right, we'll have a choice. Or actually leave, if you are just, you know, for a country, if you are the leader of an organization, you act like this, your team is going to leave, they're gonna find a shop, you know, in a different company, because it's like, another word for this douchebag, this guy is always arrogant is putting already down quantity with these people. Right? And but then again, at the same time, being, I don't know, a doormat is not good either. Because in that case, no one's gonna respect you. Leadership requires setting boundaries, punishing bad behaviors, and rewarding good behavior. So if you're a nice guy, and you say, like, you know what, okay, okay, you came, oh, Johnny, he came to work 30 minutes late today, like the past 30 days, no problem, probably, you really had problems, you can't be a leader like this, you're gonna lose the whole business. So you got to have that balance between the two. And allow them to know that, yes, you know, the boundaries, you are confident in your abilities, but you don't need their approval back and forth, back and forth back. That's just not who basically you are, because that's not what confident leaders simply don't do. They simply believe in themselves, they know what they're capable of, it's kind of like, you know, when you, you know, get your, for example, black belt, I run this, you know, I noticed something, a lot of my friends, when you get your black belt, you start having fights for good. I don't know any of my friends who got their black belts or who, you know, finish tough trainings, for example, like that, you know, for example, the underwater demolition or whatever it is, these when these guys, you know, finish some of the toughest trainings out there. Ironically, after they gain that confidence, that dude, I'm now Special Forces or Dude, I got now the black belt of karate or something, once they have that confidence in them, for some odd reason. Most of them never get into a fight ever again. Because like the way they carry themselves show that and I think we can be like that black belt in all areas of life, financial relationship. I don't know, knowledge, wisdom. Once you have that black belt of wisdom, for example, you're not going to be you know, something like, Oh, I am so wise, please tell me I'm wise. I'm waiting. Nobody. Oh, boy. So that approach simply shows that you're real, you're faking it, that you're no real steps, right? Which is why I always like Dan, I'm afraid of making post on social media share my ideas. I say, Why? say there's no one's gonna like them. I say why do you need their likes, like, but if no one likes me and my posts, then I feel like I'm not important enough. It's like, dude, talk to yourself, as if you're talking, you know, in a vacuum or something, ignore that. And please be aware that it's not about being liked by their sight, but by being heard, which is why I also like, views are always more important social media than likes, likes mean. Views are what generates think of, for example, you know, top platforms, top platforms and top you know, influencers are the ones who don't look to be liked. They say what they want and I like, that attracts more attention, right? But those who are like, well, the guy says, Well, if I take you know, shouldn't my shirt off and just take muscle photos, I get a lot of likes, so I'm gonna keep doing that. So they can never express themselves or the girl says, Okay, if I just get bikini shots that I will get a lot of likes. So they, you know, pages become, you know, boring and meaningless. But once you ignore that approach, and say, You know what, I want to express my thoughts. That's it. I don't want likes. That is that lupino blackbelt, if you will, let's go with confidence and everyone you attract more attention that way. While in all areas of life, yeah,   Pouya LJ  20:03 I think actually absolutely right. Because especially with the advent of, you know, technology, social media, and on the other hand podcast is like the best podcasts are the most sincere and real ones they will relate least super structured like a sort of like a corporate media levels are structured, that the more sincere It seems that the more attention he gets. It said there's a there's a thirst for sincerity, it means it seems shallow there is Yeah, I think I completely agree with that. In my personal experience, anyways. Okay, so we talked a lot about, and I think I think we're honing on a point on many of our episodes about most things, many things. And that is, there's a balance required of finding the point of balance is the hard part is the difficulty. And and you'd never get there without trial and error. You never get there without getting your hands dirty. Doesn't matter how many books you eat, it doesn't matter what you do, you ultimately need to actually do it and see Oh, wow, I was too arrogant here. Oh, wow, I was too modest. Nobody knew what I achieved. So. So I think I think there's a good good segue to say, to bring this show to its conclusion. Is there anything you think we have missed that requires further brush up?   Dan  21:24 Well, first of all good topics is always projects. And as we compared arrogance versus modesty, we realized that in the end, what truly matters is a sense of balance. There's nothing wrong with being you know, satisfied and happy with who you are. There's nothing wrong with loving your success, because that's called self love. And self love is the foundation for loving others. If you don't really love yourself, you can't love other people, if you don't really like and are proud of your work, how do you want others to be inspired by you. So you should like that. But at the same time, being arrogant and trying to show off and especially by bringing others down. That is a short term approach to gain that, you know, feeling of self esteem, which we all look for, it's like in the mass look, you know, hierarchy of needs, right? So for that reason, we believe that it's better to fully stop with arrogance. arrogance is always a bad thing. There is no such thing as moderate arrogance. arrogance itself means you bring others down. So it must be removed. modesty in Your hands should be practiced with you know, moderation, because if you're too modest, you're not helping anybody. Because in that case, you will actually not inspire others. Now, if you are modest about your finances, you're definitely helping yourself by avoiding pay as much taxes as most of you do. Which I'm a fan of, by the way, because I mean, in that one case you've read, you probably don't want to show off. But generally, if you have other ideas, you want to understand that those who are the most confident, usually aren't always talking about that stuff. They aren't talking about their achievements. Rather, they're actually helping others to become achievers themselves, right? So by putting this focus on them, and not on you, you actually become a lot more confident and a lot more popular among those around you.   Pouya LJ  23:08 All right, that makes a lot of sense. I think that was a good conclusion. It had hints of what we didn't talk about and a lot of what we talked about. Thanks. As always, Dan, for joining us and having a moment. And thank you, everybody for participating listening, tuning in. I hope you participate by leaving comments, suggestions, you know, topics that you want to hear about in the comment section or directly to me or Dan through social media. You know where to find us. It's in the show notes as well. And until later episode, have a good one.

Showing off wealth and luxuries is at an all-time high thanks to the influence of social media but what about all the other individuals who resort to a life of minimalism? In this episode of BTP, we contrast luxury with minimalism and offer our solution to strike the right balance between the two.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS luxury, minimalistic, money, minimalism, people, traveling, spend, buy, life, minimalist, mining, lambo, check, cars, education, luggage, pandemic, absolutely, photos, lifestyle SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of The BTP podcast. I'm joined as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, man?   Dan  00:17 Whatever, man, buddy, how's it going? How are you good to hear your voice Been a while, we've been super busy with a lot of things here, and I'm sure you're there as well. So life is absolutely great, I'm actually getting on the road these days a lot more frequently than I used to. So we're getting out of that, you know, pandemic lockdown mode, basically. So I'm pretty excited. I've already actually sorted a lot of my trips. Although these days for the sake of not having to deal with major problems, I actually keep most of my trips much shorter than usual. So if I used to stay in any country for like, one month and a half now it's like more like a week or two, to make sure that there's going to be any major problems. But fortunately, we're seeing gradually the world is opening up. And thanks to, you know, a wide spread vaccination basically. So that's a very good news for people like us who are always on the road and who don't want to just deal with the hassles of having to go through these bs checkups and bring your results. And now we have things like you know, vaccination, passports and so on, which are pretty good, although it's a little bit political, but very good. This is definitely gonna, you know, accelerate the process, moving around, and just, it's gonna open up the borders and make it easier. So I'm pretty happy about that one. And life is great. On my side, haven't you man? How are things? I literally was shocked when I saw a couple of photos you sent me yesterday about you mining Bitcoin with those fancy devices, man. So what's the story in it?   Pouya LJ  01:41 Well, you Oh, actually, I'm actually mining etherium. But yeah, that's it's I don't know, it was one of those things that I picked up during the pandemic, essentially. Yeah,   Dan  01:51 it's probably, I don't know, maybe on your Instagram page or something you just probably shared. That stuff looked really like it was crazy, man. It didn't look like a normal thing to happen. And like, it seems super fancy as if like you have like no laboratory dedicated entirely to cryptocurrency mining or something. It was pretty cool. I mean, maybe should later check and check it out. Guys. I can go to his Instagram. See from the photos. It's really fun. So how long has it been since you've been mining?   Pouya LJ  02:20 Yeah, I'll drop those photos in the shadows too. Just Just because we talked about it. Yeah, it's been I think it's been since late February, something like that. Yeah.        Dan  02:31 You're late starters, it has a lot more than you know, it's not like, four or five months or something.   Pouya LJ  02:36 Yeah, I know. It hasn't been that long. And honestly, at that point, I was trying to pick up a project. And I was looking at, okay, what's out there and I've done this, I've done that. I want to do that later. It's gonna be a lot of time. And then I came across this one, I was like, You know what, why not do this? I haven't done this for so long. It's it's a good time to pick it up. And I did. And I was like, You know what, it's also a good passive income kind of thing. So I mean, I'm not   Dan  03:03 actually listed with the income aspect of it. I mean, I don't know about things in Canada. Are there any taxations By the way, for any mining, or you're not going to be taxed?   Pouya LJ  03:11 Yeah. So not for mining per se. I suppose. If you sell it in in the form of cash then it might be but I have no intention of selling me so I'm not actually selling any of them. So in   Dan  03:26 the Canadian government, so you guys back off.   Pouya LJ  03:30 Yeah, no.   Dan  03:32 taxable a lot. I mean, they're, they're like Europeans. They tax.   Pouya LJ  03:35 Yeah, no, I mean, that's true. But on the other hand, they only texted on currency, as far as I know. Like, I mean, there's no it's not   Dan  03:42 like the US where you're basically crypto wallet is also centered your taxation. It's not like that yet in Canada.   Pouya LJ  03:49 Yes. So I'm not too too sure. Like whoever listening in Canada don't take this as advice to be honest with you, but I'm pretty sure if you hold it as that currency No, but if you do sell it, then you have to Why do you have to so if so, for example, let's say you bought $100,000 I mean, that's a long large sum. But let's say you buy $100,000 worth of whatever bitcoins, let's say, and then you sold it again now you're on 120. So it's similar to stock markets. I saw that prop So yeah, I think Yeah, exactly. I think that's still stays the same. But mining they don't like I don't know technically, that's pure profit, I suppose. But on the other hand, it's not really and it's not so my project is not that massive to be extremely noticeable when I'm talking about it. I guess it's public, but either way I when I if   Dan  04:41 you share those photos, people are gonna change their mind.   Pouya LJ  04:44 No, but if I if I had to be absolutely honest, if I do sell it, I'm going to declare it in my tax returns, no doubt, but I have absolutely no intention of selling it.   Dan  04:53 That's the culture of Canada. These guys just love their government. They're so peaceful they they share all the electricity What I made and here's my tax I'm gonna pay some extra for the sake of the community. Love the Government of Canada. Yeah, that's right.   Pouya LJ  05:05 I don't know taxes to be honest with you absolutely do not. I mean, you got to do what you got to do.   Dan  05:11 I see and one thing is gonna be like profitable. Do you think in Canada, given the cost of the equipment, the electricity and so on? Oh, yeah. So thankfully,   Pouya LJ  05:19 I had some of my equipments from ways back. And the other ones that I added on along the road. A I managed to get at a very decent prices. So yeah, those those Oh, man, so shopping them, I   Dan  05:33 don't know, Black Friday, something you get, like 90% off and something and start mining that stuff.   Pouya LJ  05:38 Yeah, it wasn't particularly like 90% off. But yeah, I got a I got a few good deals, here and there. And you know, how they're very rare these days. So I know, right? If you can even get it out. MSRP it's I think it's fairly fairly good price. But, but yeah, so the class costs are were too high. And electricity is not too bad. Actually, I don't pay electricity at my place, specifically. So it's kind of included. Oh, so you're renting now? Right? Yeah, I rent.   Dan  06:08 That's like that's like miners dream country?   Pouya LJ  06:11 Exactly. I mean, again,   Dan  06:12 I'm not sure about your landlord. Probably.   Pouya LJ  06:15 No, no, my landlord doesn't pay either. It's so the condominium entirely is basically paying one utility for everybody. And again, my project is not so so big that it would cost like if I were to pay it, it would probably add, I don't know, approximately less than 50 Canadian dollars per month. Wow. Okay, I   Dan  06:38 got it. That's right, pretty well, pretty well, but overall, nice, nice, you know, thing and to hope you're gonna succeed. And you can later on later on share with us exactly what happened and how the whole thing went out?   Pouya LJ  06:49 Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, we'll have episodes on that for whoever's interested. Today, though, we're talking about something slightly different. Actually, we can relate it to anything for actually I thought about relating to things already. So it's basically minimalism versus luxury. Let's, let's define them first. I guess for those who don't know why luxury, I think everybody knows. But let's define minimalism. For those who might not have heard of it.   Dan  07:13 I can guess, right? Well, very nice. Of course, the word itself is self explanatory. It comes from the word minimal, meaning living, basically, your life in a way that you just spent enough to meet all of your basic needs, without any money spent on things that are not absolutely necessary. So of course, what is truly necessary, it is really subjective, I guess, it depends on who you are, your background and so on. However, I think that in the end, it really comes down to you living kind of like, you know, below your means as much as possible to make sure that your life is sustainable. And you're not having a you know, a lot of basically consumption at the end of the month, basically, which is called minimalism. Now, there are various types of minimalism some of the extremist types, where they have to just, you know, literally, you have to live in a cave somewhere or something in that situation. Yeah, probably, it's gonna be weird. But ultimately, it's about living below your means trying to save as much as possible. So the focus in that lifestyle is much more about spending less. And in a luxury lifestyle is much more about making more. So these are two very different approaches to life, those who are on the, you know, luxury lifestyle category, they don't believe in not spending, basically, they believe in spending more, but they have to focus on earning more as well. And those who are on the minimalistic side, their focus is mainly on spending less. So they tend to spend their time and life basically in very different ways. And they end up having very different lifestyles. So that's what you know, we were talking about minimalism versus luxury lifestyle, this first lecture, we already know what that means. And there is pretty much no limit to how luxury your life can get. And when it comes to minimalism, however, there are some basic limits, I mean, us really can have, you can literally go on so many few meals per week, right? So you can, there's a lot there's a bottom limit. When it comes to luxury, there's actually you know, the sky's the limit, basically.   Pouya LJ  09:09 Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so I actually thought about a few things to relate to whatever we said before now, let's go back to your so you were telling you're back on the road, you're traveling and you know, and you were saying you're on the road a lot, so you don't stay for long periods of time, particularly. And I was thinking actually, you know, a minimalist luggage would actually help a lot.   Dan  09:36 Unfortunately, I always travel with two languages that cover the problems that I have basically. Now, generally, that's not a big deal. It's my habit. Basically, I rarely travel with one luggage, mainly two languages, because I tend to stay as I mentioned earlier, usually Of course now the pandemic has changed that. But before the pandemic I rarely seen any place less than three weeks to a month. Basically so I need to have more clothes, some you know, for business some for, you know, going out and so on some you know, for the gym for that reason I rarely travel with only one luggage so I do not travel minimalistic that to be honest with you right now, because it's not possible for me, quite frankly. And I have a lot of devices. And I don't know, multiple phones, basically phone phones and both androids and iPhones for different countries. So it's kind of hard to put it all in one language and just call it a minimalistic Well, let's go man, I just got this tiny little luggage here. That is not for me, unfortunately. But I sometimes like these people who are traveling with like, you know, like luggage and like, Dude, this guy's ready. It's so much easier that way, I guess for these guys. Right? And generally, it's their style, but for me, unfortunately, I tend to be on the heavy luggage type basically. So if I'm not flying business, then I should always pay extra for basically the luggage.   Pouya LJ  10:53 Gotcha. Gotcha now, so Okay, the reason I mentioned this is so I don't know to me like I know some people adapt luxury or minimalism as a way of life very generally. So basically applying it to all aspects. But for me, I think you know, as Jocko with Jocko Willink would say it's there's, for me, there's a dichotomy, like, there are some things that I absolutely go minimalistic, for example, and this is not by any philosophy or anything, it's just by happenstance, now that I'm thinking about it, for example, travel. Now, I'm not saying I'm gonna go with a fanny pack. I'm not that minimalistic, but I'm relatively minimal minimalistic, let's say, compared to average. And that is, like, I go with as little, you know, luggage as possible, maybe a backpack and a small suitcase? That would be that would be I mean, I also I'm not going on, you know, these kind of travels that you do, you know, I don't need that much stuff. So, my point is that I think it, it's very area dependent. For me personally, in some areas, I'm fairly minimalistic, and I'm so so for example, I have three monitors. That's absolutely not minimalist.   Dan  12:03 I'm pretty sure when it comes to tech, you're definitely not a minimalist. Take a look at that photo, guys. And in the show notes, you'll see that that is not minimalist at all.   Pouya LJ  12:10 Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's what I mean, like, so I think read monitors just   Dan  12:13 in that frame. Just look around the house, you're gonna find out there four or five display somewhere else?   Pouya LJ  12:18 Well, the TV's separate, obviously. No, no, but so do you see it this way, as well? Or is it   Dan  12:26 again, you see, that's what you said, it's about lifestyle. Man, you are definitely not minimalistic when it comes to, this is what I what I think about you, I'm pretty sure you are not minimalist when it comes to technology, or even education. Because I mean, for example, you have a huge desire for learning a lot of new things. You're not a minimalist, minimalist, says, Oh, I got my Bible, I got my Bible, and that's all I ever need from Allah. I'ma read the Bible all the time. That's the only book I need. So, if you're one of those, yeah, that's called minimalism regarding education, right? The Bible, the Bible is all information. God knows all I got the book   Pouya LJ  13:02 has all the information from 10,000 years ago into that, right? Of course,   Dan  13:05 and that's the only one I love me. So that's gonna be basically, you know, educational minimalism, if you will, right? People who are like that will live very differently, right? And not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, we respect people of all faiths and beliefs. It's just that someone who lives that way will have a very different life than someone like Fujitsu. I don't know, loves technology reach a lot and you know, pursue education abroad, right. So these are the, you know, these who are going to have very different lifestyles, right? So minimalism is relative. But usually, when people talk about luxury, they only talk about one aspect, which is, you know, the money and all that stuff, right. But in fact, luxury can be literally defined, depending on how you live, for example, one of the biggest luxuries would actually talk about this issue not long ago, in one of our programs. Generally, luxury can be seen in variety of, you know, wage, yes. When we say the luxury people think of, I don't know, Chanel and for example, you know, leave a ton and super expensive, you know, cars and so on, because they are looking at luxury from a consumers perspective, right, or from a, you know, vanity point of view, right? Oh, show off and all that stuff. But luxury could be seen as you having enough time every morning to go for a jog, without having to rush to work because you know, you are working, you know, running your own business, again, actually dedicate a couple hours in the morning for, you know, some jogging without having to worry about the traffic, right? That's a luxury. And I think that for me personally, as you probably know, that's one of my luxury that I had every day. And I value that a lot more than I don't know, having to always, you know, be in a super fancy car. So if you told me down, I'm gonna give you right now a lifestyle where you can drive a fancy car every single day, or you can have that one hour in the morning for, you know, jogging, and you know, somehow meditation or something like this. I will pick the second one because that for me is a lot more valuable, right? Which is why we should look at minimalism the luxury in different contexts. That by default is about you know, vanity, buying stuff large homes, I don't know, cool, fancy travels and whatnot. But even if it comes to travel, I'm actually really not a fan of most people will let you know what people call traveling, I don't know your book, I don't know, three days stay in a super fancy hotel, you go there, and you're there for three days. And that's it. That's not traveling, when I'm traveling, I want to be there, I want to, I want to feel the country, I want to speak his language, I want to know the culture I want to be and you know, be there for at least three weeks to, you know, one month, one month and a half, to fully immerse myself in their culture, and that it's a form of luxury, which sometimes can actually cost a lot less than your super fancy five star hotel travels, right? So it really I think depends on our value in life. If it, you know, comes straily about you know, just the money and all that yeah, it's just about minimalism means you spend less money, and luxury means you spend more money, but we have different types of luxuries and different types of luxuries bring different types of you know, for example, experiences in life, which is why we should look at this issue somehow subjectively and divide it into different groups of luxuries in different groups. It could be extremely wealthy, and drive fancy cars and you know, drive, get a private jet, but be financially minimalistic, or sorry, be educationally minimalistic, or be physically minimalistic. This means that you don't take care of your body, for example, I don't have time to learn new things, and All you think about is to make more money. And at the end of the week, you say, Well, I'm gonna go to church have a good time I get my Bible, that's all one thing. So this is one lifestyle, this guy lives a very, very high quality, luxury, you know, lifestyle in terms of how he spends his money. But in terms of education, and in terms of health, this person is minimalistic, because he has no time for an ability to shape or improving, you know, perhaps his or her knowledge, right? At the same time, you could have a college kid who has a lot of time in the world for, you know, building a good shape and learning a lot of things but might not have enough money for traveling or buying, you know things right. So generally, I personally, as I've already mentioned, I'm not generally a fan of luxury in his traditional sense, because luxury generally is pretty much about showing off, right? Look at me, look at what I got. And I personally believe that people who try to show off with wealth, especially nowadays, thanks to social media is becoming even more popular. I don't know, you get your show off, you're driving your Lambo. And you take a photo with this, you know, cool thing you got on the yacht in here, or Yeah, I'm an accountant, a junior accountant in this company that I hate, but I'm traveling all the time, take a look at my photos. So these are the things that people tend to show off with which I am against, because I really believe that that can only develop, you know, resentment among those who are less financially fortunate. And ironically, it's not even necessary, because the problem is showing up with money as this money can be transferred to you without you doing anything, you can just inherit that you can just win in the lottery right? And trying to show off with money. And let's be honest, this could just be totally faked. Right, just downright you just, you know, rent a Lambo for two days, that's your entire month's salary, and then you start showing off to create a course on how they can become wealthy. Well, if you want to look at it, you know, basically, as a business point of view, no problem. I mean, you're a scammer No problem, you just got to put your months of salary you earn working in McDonald's, to, you know, take a couple of videos for two days and then create an online course how to become rich. Yeah, you could do that. It's not necessarily an ethical approach to you know, making money, but it is one way to do it. And unfortunately, people who are on social media, you know, do these kinds of things, unfortunately. But in reality, I believe that there are far better ways to show off than just buying luxury, the best, which, of course, is who you are, I think, who you are and how valuable you are, and how much contribution you can make to society are far better signs of how worthy you are than how much money that there are many people in this world. We're not millionaires or billionaires, but who are making great contributions or who have great abilities that can make them stand out and I think focusing on who you are, and your abilities will be a lot more effective means of trying to perhaps show your worth then everybody ready nobody's no one's gonna say like, yeah, I want to do the same thing. I'm a piece of shit that was going to say that the need for self esteem is a basic need as part of it, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, everybody wants to feel that sense of self is everybody wants to feel good about themselves. I am so and of course when that feeling disappears, we have things like depression, suicidal thoughts, and so on. So everybody has to have a self esteem, nobody has to feel good about themselves. And the feedback we get from others definitely does matter. But in the end, you can do that by buying fake Gucci's and pretending to be someone you're not. Or you can simply do it by showing how great you are when it when it comes to painting, or how such a great thinker you are, how such a great athlete you are, how fast you can run or I don't know how well you perform on the stage. When you do your, you know, theatrical plays. There are many ways for us to show our worth. And I think the worst Way to show your worth is by money, because that is probably the, it accomplishes the exact opposite. When a person says, check out my cash, Oh, I got 200,000 in my hand, that's all by the way, like $1 bills, something that you want to get looks so big in front of the camera, I'll look at all these bills in my hand, I'm so rich. Well, what that person is trying to say is look at me. I'm good. Please tell me I'm good. And please love me. That's like the intention behind that, right? Or, alternatively, look at this. I grew up in filth, I came from a shitty background, but now I'm rage. So I'm the only rage and I feel I have a serious complex. So whatever you do, the impact of that will ultimately be negative. Those are like, Who's this idiot, man? Gosh. And sometimes this behavior actually attracts the wrong types of attention, thing criminals who say, Oh, this guy's got some, Where's his location? Oh, see? Or if you're working in business, the tax basically auditors. Oh, wait a minute, let me check this guy's Iris report, ah, this guy recorded only $30,000 of income. But this guy's driving a Lambo, oh, we're gonna go for a new audit. So basically, you end up accomplishing the exact opposite of what you hope for by trying to show up with money. On the other hand, imagine you show off by your ability to play chess, I'm the world's best chess player, no one can take that away from you. I'm show off with my ability to paint well, and I share my photos on Instagram of how such a great painter I am. Well, no one can take that away from you. But money could be stolen from you and could be taken away from you and can simply be faked. Or just got, you know, in order to become great, you know, a chess master, you got to put in the effort. But it can be rich overnight, without working so hard to become a great painter, you're gonna put in a lot of lot of, you know, hours into this to actually reach mastery. And once you get there, nobody can take it away from you, right? That's not the same with money, which is why I am vehemently against luxury, especially the way that we use to show off it just First of all, based on my estimation, most of the people who do show off with money generally aren't either that rich, or even if they are that rich, they probably are lowering their value in the eyes of other people. And but most luxuries are not purchased. I actually had a poster for this a while ago. And I actually looked at those around me, those whose net worth exceeded $100 million, and those who are like in a couple million. And you'll see that as the network comes down, luxury goes up. And as net worth goes up, the luxury comes down to the guy whose net worth is 100 million. You don't see him flashing cool stuff. And even if he has cool stuff, he doesn't show it to anybody. He just maybe some guys really love to drive a Lamborghini. Right? This is like he's a car nerd. Right? He drives his Lambo, but you're never gonna see that photo on his Instagram, right? And the guy who has his entire wealth is $3 million. gets himself I don't know, into trouble by buying two luxury cars and being under debt for many years. Right. Which is why I really consider that approach to you know, luxury to be extremely, basically, probably a great way to show how pathetic you feel and how empty your life is from the inside. Because those who already have the money, they don't really do it. And those who do it, in most cases probably don't have that much money. So just brings it into the whole dilemma back in the you know, the spotlight and how ineffective this bursary is.   Pouya LJ  23:26 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I was thinking about, you know, what I am, in this sense as you were talking and I think by default, I am a minimum. I think that might be true of everybody. I don't know, but at least me. I think by default, I'm generally minimalistic. And then I pick and choose. So for example, as you said technology, education health. I definitely i'm not i'm not shy to spend as much as necessary on three. So yeah, I can't think of anything else that is valuable to me personally, right now. I mean, I haven't thought about it too long. But right now that I'm non minimalistic, maybe a little bit luxury about it. Do you have any areas that you spend a lot of time attention money perhaps on besides I don't know, let's say travel?   Dan  24:14 Well, you mentioned the first one, by the way, I don't believe if you spend money on things you're passionate about that is not you know, showing off that is not you know, luxurious consumption. It's just because of your passion. I told you even if you have a Lamborghini, if you really are crazy. I have some friends who are crazy about cars, man, like, man, check out this. Check out the sound, man. It's so fucking cool, right? So these guys, and they talk about these things, right? This guy, if you really spend money on Lambo, even though it's expensive, that is not a luxury consumption, because this guy's passionate. You see, I consider luxury consumption to be done solely with the purpose of impressing other people, including buying things you don't really believe in, but you feel that gives you that attention. And then is the real. So it's really all about the intention. Bill Gates, loved cars, Bill Gates has a huge collection of cars from the very beginning of his, you know, his career, he still does. He's got many garages full of luxury cars, but not a single person on earth knows that. And not a single magazine has ever shown in brain one of these cars. He intentionally avoids that. You see, this guy is one of the richest men of the world. He's unfortunately, he's not the richest at this moment. But still, the point is this, this guy loved cars. And when he bought these cars, it wasn't for showing off was this. He's, you know, he's just quite crazy about these things, right? The same thing goes with anything else you can spend money on, you know, and spend big bucks on things you really are passionate about. But the question is, what is your intention? when I'm traveling? First of all, I don't even actually post a lot of these Oh, I'm here I'm there is location things often do? We don't travel that much. And number two, I don't even announced, you know, recently that much. Why? Because when I'm traveling, I'm not doing that to say, Oh, yeah, I'm traveling Check. Check this out. Because I from from a person that's like a lifestyle, right? The other thing I knew I spend money on is perhaps clothing and accessories. And again, that's purely because of a personal interest, not because I want to say oh, I spend a lot of nice branch. No, because I like the students, I believe that most men dress like shit. And I don't like that. I think that men should change their approach towards dressing. And if I could be a role model and help other men to change their salad dressing and pay a little bit more attention, not to dress like their grandpa's, maybe that'll be a good thing. But that's just for me personally, right? It's just a personal passion. But I have zero interest in things like luxury cars, or luxury brands, or I don't know, oh, check this out. I got this cool washing here. Yeah, I will have a decent watch a couple of them. But that's it. It's not just you know, to say, oh, check this out, by the way. Oh, what time is it? Man? Oh, that's right. It is 30 minutes to Rolex, good seeing ya. So that's not going to be like, I mean, that's just so pathetic when I hear these things. So I am vehemently against those types of luxuries, pretty much almost all of them. And when it comes to education, I have no lunch. I don't care about the price tag of anything education. Well, there's a seminar, whether it's an educational course, you do give me the price, I don't know, half a million dollars for this course, I'll take it no problem, because for me, education is always an investment. I see it as investment as soon as it tripling that money. So if I put a half a million under education, I'm gonna get a minimum a million, you know, and 500,000 back, right. For that reason, for education, I have no limits. Because for me, you can never learn something too much. Right? So that is just about the personal balance. And for me, that's what matters. So if I wanted to say, to which things I spend money on, you can actually check out you know, know these things by looking at your bills, because I literally do this. Each month, I look at you know, all my expenses, I use all of my, you know, bank accounts for different countries to see what actually spent money on. And it almost always comes down to education. It comes down to health and fitness, you know, healthy food, high quality nutrition, and supplements and vitamins, all that stuff, which I for me, there's no limit, health, healthcare, investing doctors at getting appointments, checkups. And of course, for things that directly helped me like traveling, clothing and so on. But I rarely spend money on things that are absolutely useless. Because for me, that's not going to change me, right? It's not going to make my life better. And if I ever do it, I'm doing it with the intention of impressing others. And that always backfires. Because the worst way to get other people's admiration is to do it directly. Like, oh, tell me I'm so great. Check out my car. Oh, I'm a piece of shit. I feel empty from the inside. Please tell me I'm good. Please look at my Lambo. Oh, no, please like it too. This only shows a big hole inside of you. Right? So any purchase I make? I make because of me not because I want to show it off, or because I want others to say wow. Because I believe that the best way to make up your mind about your expenditure is to ask yourself, Is it for me to actually want to buy anything? I'm pretty sure he did not buy those cool gadgets for mining because you wanted to show off that Oh, check out No, you want it for you. You spend money for education because of you. And when you spend money because of you because of utility and really what you are passionate about that is I think the right expense. But unfortunately, a lot of times we don't buy things because we wanted for us. Many people prefer basically Android to iPhone, but they have to buy an iPhone because that's you know, that's going to be cool. Or I myself, I always get the latest iPhones because I love iPhone, but I never buy the pro version. Why? Because I hate to say like, Oh, my camera got my camera got three lenses and yours got only two. That's just so pathetic, which is why I intentionally always buy the latest iPhone but I always buy the basic version to make sure that it's not a luxury expense. I just use it for utility for the latest hardware for the latest, you know, benefits that comes with the latest iPhone, but I never go for these pro pro max all these crap basically Why? Because my intention is always one thing utility not show up with money.   Pouya LJ  30:15 Alright, I think that sums it up. That's that's a perfect way too. perfect place to stop. Is there anything you want to add? Or? We're good?   Dan  30:23 Well, that was a very special man. And I enjoy talking with you about these two things, we really are the question, we have this luxury approach to life. And we have this minimalistic. And as we probably know, the best approach is somewhere in the middle, I don't recommend our lives, like Daniel said, I should have abandoned Okay, I'm going to live in a cave. I'm going to drink goat's milk for the next two years. So that is not of course, effective. Right? money should be spent. That's how economies function. But the question is, why do you spend that money? So next time you made a purchase? It was I don't know, whatever item you wanted to purchase order online, ask yourself, Am I doing this for me? Or am I doing this to impress other people? Do I really need a you know, for example, the latest and the, you know, the most expensive version of this item? Or is it just to say that I have it right. And above all, please be aware of the prices manage your budget, maybe this item is really cool. But you have to have money left for savings for investments and other things. You know, living by the formula of wealth implies that you must always make sure that your expenses are less than your income. Most of us were the exact opposite. We always spend what we earn. And if our income goes up, we increase our consumption. And that's why most of us are never going to get rich. So ask yourself, have I saved enough money for a future in retirement or for some investment where we're buying real estate or buying stocks or investing in cryptocurrencies, whatever it is, or now, I just all my friends have the latest promax I want to get the promax to even though my entire salary this month. But Dude, that's a huge mistake. You can make that you know, purchase right now. But you're going to regret that a couple months down the line when the rent is due, and you don't have the cash and after what people you don't like. So you're gonna hate your job, you're gonna do some job you hate just to have that friggin phone. Are you kidding me? So for that reason, be aware of what your budget really is, like, make wise decisions. And always ask yourself, am I buying this for me? am I buying this because I want a certain type of reaction from other people. Because if you buy it for you, that's always okay. No problem. But unfortunately, a lot of our purchases, especially the ones that are luxury, are not for us, we're not really doing that because we need it or because we want it or even because we like it. I know people who hate sports cars, but they have to, you know, keep up with the Joneses. Because this other guy who's also a banker has it, so why not? And they hate it. They like oh gosh, this card is so fast. And so should I hate it. You know what, I gotta keep the image. So ask yourself is really from your for the other people. Because the worst thing you can do in your life, is to buy things you don't need. With the money, you don't have to impress the people you don't even like that's like the worst side of you know, capitalism. And please, if you're now listening to us avoid this approach as much as possible.   Pouya LJ  33:17 Okay, no, that was great. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think you should live by that every day of the week and every week of the year. Alright, thanks again, Dan, for joining us for another fantastic conversation. My pleasure. And thank you everybody for listening and tuning in. And if you have any thoughts, feel free to share it with us. You know where you know how. All right until later episode. Have a good day.

Every single success is preceded by many failures and rejections yet the right attitude towards the aforementioned are rarely taught to us at school. In this episode Daniel clarifies this issue and helps the listeners change their perspective regarding any and all setbacks they encounter on the way to their goals. 

Your outlook on life is ultimately what determines how you feel most of the time, what goals you pursue, and how you interact with those around you. In this episode of Beyond the Present Podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss tell two pillars of human behavior and share their thoughts on how through introspection we will be able to know ourselves and even alter our outlook on life.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS life, people, outlook, values, person, parents, world, nurture, questions, hormones, child, optimist, age, pessimists, brain, growing, genius, man, childhood, experience SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of the BTB podcast, joined as always with Daniel Morgan, how's it going? My man?   Dan  00:20 What's up, man, buddy, good to be here with you for yet another big podcast as you said yourself pretty cool stuff. I liked it. So overall, I'm glad to be here with you, man, life is wonderful. And we're gradually getting back on track in almost every area of life. And good news, pretty much is starting to pile up after almost a year of nothing but bad news. So life is great. And I'm so glad to be here with you. And to see hopefully if things are also fine on your end. So man, How are things with you and candidate   Pouya LJ  00:51 that is just great to hear and hear things are progressing very well as as well. As you said, we're, we're making, you know, some, some improvements in our quality of life. And things that are, you know, opening up at a large level, but in an unemotional level as well. We're trying our best, you know, moving forward creating fun content, hopefully, very soon for this very podcast as you will   Dan  01:22 awesome. Very nice man. Glad to hear things are fine and glad things are opening up and over there as well. So I'm very happy to hear things are fine, man.   Pouya LJ  01:32 That's it. That is good to hear. That is good to hear. Exactly. And today we're going to talk about a specific topic that has nothing to do with pandemic Well, you can always relate everything to pandemic, I suppose, but inherently not related to pandemic. Right. Yeah, so so what we're gonna talk about why people have different attitudes towards life and how they're living their lives. As we know, some, some people have more, more of a positive outlook, optimistic outlook, pessimistic outlook, realistic outlook, Outlook, etc. So I see is that what makes people happy? Is it there? So my immediate, you know, hunch was maybe it's their life experience that leads them to adopt a particular outlook towards life. But what what are your perspective on the matter?   Dan  02:22 Very good question. By the way, PJ. Sam, thanks for choosing another great topic for this show. today. As you pointed out, of course, what you mentioned in the field of psychology is referred to as nurture. But at the same time, as you probably have heard it, when it comes to behavioral therapy, they should, let's say, kind of behavioral therapy, and for example, CBT, it is actually talked about the issue of nature versus nurture, your cpj we cannot necessarily ignore the influence that our biology and genetics and DNA plays in the way we actually feel about everything. For example, something as illegal, something as little as how many dopamine receptors are, by nature in your brain upon birth, is going to literally tilt your entire life to a whole different direction. For instance, let's assume that you were born with a lot of dopamine receptors in your brain, just by nature, just like your mom or your dad, or your cousin, or whatever it is. And then another guy in the same family is born with very little dopamine receptors, these two people are going to have completely different lives, aspirations, dreams, and so on. So when it comes to behavior, and what truly differentiates behavior, we generally focus on two main main types of hormones that the brain like to actually basically be in touch with on a regular basis, based upon, you know, receptors, we call it the dopamine or basically dopaminergic types of personality. And then we have the here and now types of hormone, also called H and n types of hormones. For example, we all know that a person or a family or friends who is always looking to achieve something, maybe he or she tends to be a bit more hyper energetic, likes to play with abstract ideas. He likes to be creative. And unfortunately, in many cases, he or she might be a little bit too promiscuous. Let's just say that, always looking for that next rush, the next achievement The next thing we call such personality types, basically more dopaminergic type personalities. It's really a matter of biology. Because if you want that person to be like normal, and just enjoy life, and just enjoy the moment, then that brain cannot receive as much stimulation and pleasure and the brain is designed to look for more pleasure and less pain, which means that person simply after a while, quits doing all that cool things and goes back to you know, pumping up the dopamine if you will, and that often happens by novelty seeking, achieving goals and so on. On the other hand, we have those whose bodies are usually less Basically energetic in general, they tend to their natural level of basically, metabolism is lower. And they oftentimes tend to enjoy H and n here. And now types of hormones that are released in body thing, for example, oxytocin. Think, for example, let's say I don't know different pleasure hormones that the brain produces, for example, all of these people are going to have a very different lifestyle. So I made you all these, basically a fancy little introduction here, because I wanted you to know that in reality, we have to focus on determining both nature and nurture factors. The second one he actually mentioned yourself earlier was their lifestyles. So if you are born in an environment, riddled with uncertainty, and threat, let's say you were born, for example, in a very difficult, basically, you know, neighborhood, let's say, and in the Bronx, or maybe in a very, perhaps, challenging, basically country in the world, you tend to grow up feeling a great deal of fear. And that fear that you felt growing up at an early age is definitely going to affect your life. If you want to know more about this, I highly recommend the latest book by Oprah Winfrey. And basically, her a number one psycho psycho therapist called what happened to you. You see, in that book, Oprah and the psychiatrists talk about this issue in depth. And they say that what happened to you, especially in the early years of your life, that primitive years up to the age seven, are going to play a major role in your life. one instance, if you grew up in a family, and you received completely emotional support in the village of seven, and then your life went into, you know, basically the dumps and you experience a lot of problems for the entirety of your childhood until you left the family and you're 20, you actually will have a far happier and more mentally stable life than someone who actually had a very turbulent early four to five years, and then had a very normal, great stable life. Can you imagine how those early years are going to affect us, even if you put this little kid and you deprive this child, for example, enough parental care, that person for the first four or five years of his or her life is going to suffer, and then you give the best life, the best education, the most supportive parents to him or her, it's not going to make a huge difference in most research. Actually, of course, if you wanna learn more, I recommend you read the book, to the end, it's a very great book. On the other hand, you have those who had a very good early few years, and their parents die, and you're stuck in a war zone, or whatever it is. And these guys often actually ended up becoming very successful and happy, because the early conditioning emotionally was actually very positive. So both of these factors are important, your nature, your genetics are important. And of course, nurture, the way you were brought up your experiences in life, were you I don't know, heartbroken, at the age of 12, when you were your hormones were, you know, really surging, and then you thought that all men or women are just evils. And you just said, From now on, I'm never gonna date someone, or maybe you had a couple of great first relationships. And from then on, you never felt that you have to call every man or woman, I don't know, it's such an evil person, right? So both factors are important, both are gonna make sure that we find and see the world very, very differently.   Pouya LJ  08:14 Amazing, and I suppose there's not a lot you can do about the inherited genetic aspect of it. But there yet,   Dan  08:23 and not just with the genetic modification, you know, just wait for 2015 man, we're going to modify all those shitty genes out, literally just like we do a lot of things. Like if you don't like your genes, just change it, man. No problem. Of course, as of now, we have about beyond the present, right? So you're gonna have to wait at least a couple of decades for that to become available and then to be to be made commercially viable, and then to become legal. It's gonna take a while, but hopefully, we'll have that too.   Pouya LJ  08:47 Exactly. And that's the black market is going to be interesting. Yeah. No, but but but good. But currently, as you mentioned, that's, that's your only Avenue, is to tamper with the wild environments, obviously, part of why parents have such an emphasis on, you know, trying to provide positive experiences for their children. And I'm not just saying happy experiences, I'm just saying positive in terms of improving their lifestyle, and, you know, future outlook towards life. So, now let's, let's take it, take it, take it apart, because there's a lot here, but super quickly. So what would you so I'm gonna posit the questions to you. And then you can pick orders in which you want to answer what would you advise a parent due to their for their children growing up to, you know, to to provide a more positive experience for the children. And probably prior to that, I think this would make more sense order of questions, answers, at least, to me, that is, okay. What is the outlook of life that one should choose? Maybe not just not just one, but there's definitely utility differential between the two or various outlooks, in terms of how you're looking at life. If you're too pessimistic, I don't think that has too much utility because you just give up on life. So, so what are you? So first of all, what are the different outlooks like a very few very popular ones that you see good or bad? And maybe to you can compare? And then what can you do at this age, wherever you are in your life? And what can you do for your children growing up with a better experience.   Dan  10:28 By the way, you said something you know about, for example, pessimists being not useful for anything, I want to say that I want to right now here, just quote one of the major basic assumptions of NLP. And that is, you must respect every basically map of reality, and know that there is no such thing as a superior or inferior map of reality, whether someone is a for example, an ISIS terrorist, a firefighter scientists, for example, an entrepreneur or a politician, it doesn't really matter whether their belief systems, in our opinion, are false or true. All beliefs are just that beliefs, all maps of reality are just that maps of reality, if you're holding the map of New York City in your hand, you're not on the Fifth Avenue, you're not going to basically see the Union Square, you're not going to see any of these things. It's not in your it's not in the real world, it's just in your head, you have the map, right. But the same token, the map is not the reality. And number one, number two, there are no such things as good or bad, you know, outlooks on life, you mentioned a pessimist. If I am going to, for example, if I want to, you know, create and manufacture new types of renewable energy, and I need certain teams of engineer to fully inspect these devices, let's say these new solar panels that are going to generate electricity without generating any co2 emission, I want my engineers who are doing the final test to be hardcore pessimists, I'm not going to put myself if I put someone like me in the position of checking, I don't know, let's say quality control in the company, or in the, let's say, factory, I'm sure that I'm gonna go out of business, because if you give it to me, it's like, man looks fine. by me. It doesn't work, doesn't matter, just push a little bit harder, maybe it's gonna work at first. But right now, I'm an optimist. As an optimist, I will be a horrible quality control manager, because I simply just see the big picture. And I think like, everything's gonna work out like, Dude, this thing does not generate the electricity, like, just come on, man, believe in yourself, it's going to be possible, just just hope, hope that there's going to be for example, electricity download, right? So I'm not going to be as an optimist, good as a quality control. I want to pessimists who finds everything, everything wrong, wrong, and pretty much everything that he or she sees, right. So every outlook on life could have a use, sometimes a use is harmful, sometimes is useful. But in the end, all outlooks, I tend to be you know, one of those, as you probably know, I'm a positivity only type of person. But that's because of my position in life. Because in my life, and because of you know, my position, I need to be an optimist otherwise, not only me, but all those people who rely on me will actually falter because it's my job to keep things pushing forward, whenever he loses hope. For that reason, I have to be an optimist. So if you put a pessimist in the leadership position, the same factory is going to go bankrupt again. Because there's one month of no sales like, Oh, it's all bullshit I knew was a bad idea. I had to get a job it is I'm so terrible weather this and my daddy. So for that reason, all outlooks on life, in my opinion, are useful. Now, sometimes the usages are malignant, let's think of that ISIS terrorist who I don't know, Trump's people's head off on the internet, they should have the right that person in his world, he thinks he's the right thing. But in fact, he's wrong. Because he simply is because, you know, values in life are contradictory, with the very way we live in the modern world. So that person needs to correct it. But so long as the person basically is not harming other people, generally, it could be just very creative. I mean, think about most right, you know, for example, rappers, most of the songs they produce are complete garbage. But to me, they're garbage, maybe for somebody else who actually gives them a hope for the future, right? For that reason, I believe that we should respect all Atlas on life. I personally tend to basically believe in that. Because I believe that if you want us to have you know, a very effective, efficient world, we need people of all backgrounds, including pessimists, including lazy people. Bill Gates said, I always hired lazy people because they find the shortcuts you're saving. I mean, think about the virtue of being hard working. I like to think of myself as hard working, but boy, never ever give that you know your job. And if you want a creative, you know, technology to be animated. Don't give that job to Daniel, give it to a you know, a lazy pessimist. He's going to do a much better job than I do. So, for that reason, we have to know that this is the case there is no such thing as a bad outlook on life. However, what I find is there's we have efficient outlook. on life and inefficient, so if your outlook on life makes you constantly angry and depressed, this is very inefficient because you're harming your body. And for that reason, you should look at your life. Are you happy with the way things are in your life? Are you getting your needs met? Are you helping? And ideally, are you a productive member of the society? Does your life really make other people's lives a little bit better, or at least touches them a little bit? Right? If so, you're good. However, if you feel like your outlook is making you feel depressed, negative, alone, unhappy, then obviously, you need to go through the process of re examining all your beliefs and values and changing it. And only then you can actually change your life. But then again, at the same time, as I mentioned earlier, the nature and the nurture, so part of that it always goes back to your body and your biology. But don't Don't worry, we're not talking about you know, genetic engineering just yet. What we're talking about is taking care of the little things in your life that really matter, for your health for your well being. Once you combine these two things, you realize that you can actually change your life for the better. However, just because you're different than other people, that doesn't mean that you're a bad person. If you feel like you're not happy with it, though. That's a different story altogether.   Pouya LJ  16:10 Yeah, now, that makes a lot of sense. And thank you for clarifying, actually, that that is what I meant, I probably didn't, you know, express it well, in terms of its efficiency, rather than wrong or right. I don't, I don't pretend that wrong or right, there is a thing, but also so. So also, I mean, generally speaking, we have this general mindset and outlook towards life. But there's also, as you mentioned, utility to certain situations dynamically, to a degree, shifting your focus from being perhaps a little bit more pessimists or less optimist, or the other way around to, you know, to account for things that are not accounted for by a different outlook. Now, again, and, again, there is a degree of rigidity built in, but there's also a degree of freedom to shift your, your point of view accordingly to according to the task at hand, now, so and so this is what I'm going to, again, ask you to elaborate on. And also, you know, do you have a preference in terms of youth development, the experiences that they should have for various kinds of outlook that could be beneficial to them? And how can you identify which one will be more beneficial to one person versus the other?   Dan  17:36 Very well, good point. First of all, I think that at a very young age, I am currently not a father, although I do have the interest in basically parenting and being a father someday. But currently, I am not a father. So my advice might not necessarily be the most reliable advice, because it'll be purely from a theoretical perspective, I do not have the experience firsthand. However, I've done, you know, a slight amount of research in this regard because of, you know, pure, just sheer interest in the in this field. Because I believe that it's very important. And ultimately, I think that the first thing that we should be doing in this regard is knowing that every person who is born in this world is unique. And in some way, I really despise the old fashioned manner of putting all basically students to go through the same educational experience. And that's just extremely extremely basically passe and not the right way to do things in the modern world. For that reason, the first thing I would do, I think someone should know, at a very young age are number one, their inherent talent. You see, every one of us, I believe, firmly that every one of us is a genius at something. Now, the word genius is officially described as having someone somebody an IQ of 140 or more. But then again, that's a very flawed definition of genius, because genius isn't just about IQ. There are many different types of intelligences that are simply not measurable by the IQ tests, right? So what I mean by genius, I mean someone with a very high degree of basically natural aptitude for certain activities. And we have different types, of course, musical being one kinesthetic being the other, visual and spatial being the other one, interpersonal intrapersonal. Obviously, we have the IQ, which is primarily measured by mathematics, as well as linguistic abilities. So these are all different types of intelligences. So I think the first element is the child right a young person should focus on is what are the things I'm a genius at. And I think people should really ask the question, you know, use the word genius here, because if they don't use something else, they will not find a clear answer. And every single one of us is really good at something and have a great sense of the texture of the food, which could probably show a great pathway towards you know, being a chef in the future or maybe you really feel a sense of rhythm in the noise. And the sound around you a great sign, it could be a good musician or an artist or singer. And maybe you really are great. And you're manipulating your body language, a great pathway towards things like acting performance or politics. So these are all things we have to consider when we want to make plans for our lives. After knowing our, you know, talents, we should then focus on values, values with things that are important to you see projects, there are things in your life that are very important that maybe people around you don't really understand. And vice versa. There are things that others say like man I really care about is like, Dude, why? So values are very personal. Maybe somebody really values novelty, while somebody else really values loyalty, maybe somebody values for example, wealth and power, while somebody else values contribution and discovery. So finding your value, through the questions Why? You mentioned they have to ask the question, why three times, for example, I want to create a new technology. Why? Because that technology is going to basically change the world. Why? Because that allows me to contribute. So contribution right now is one of your values, somebody else might ask the same question differently, like, I want to create new technology. Why? Because that's gonna make me a lot of money. Why? Because that's gonna make me feel powerful. Now powerful this person is the value and not contribution as it was for the previous person. So by finding your values in life, of course, these questions probably will take some time, I don't think that a teenager will answer these questions probably well, because at that age, even the brain has been developed. And I heard that until the age of 25. The brain is not yet fully shaped. This means that these questions probably are better asked later in life around the age of 20, to 23. And ideally answered before the age of 30, to allow the person to make the decisions. That's why we see some people, you know, go to college, and they changed major four times, and the parents get upset. Of course, this guy is 21, what do you want, you want to just choose the right major right away now some do it many will tolerate a bat major for their parents, and then later, you know, change their hurries later on. But you can't expect a 19 or 20 year old to make a perfect decision about their future. That is why I think these questions shouldn't be just asked by the younger generation, but from all of us from any ease that we are especially, you know, the the, you know, adults as well, because that allows us to know what are truly our values, I know most of my friends, or I can remember, I think of almost half of my friends to change major, literally three times three times, that's quite normal. Now there are pens like mug, that's going to mean a lot of you know, tuition fee, goddamnit, just make up your mind, Tommy. But in reality, the person is discovering himself and his values or her balance, right. And finally, after knowing basically your talents and your values, the last one is how can I properly use this, to have an efficient life. And again, from my point of view, a good life is a fine by a life that makes you happy. And at the same time allows you to make others happy a little bit as well. So a bit of contribution should be always one of our North Stars, will this make the world a better place? Or will it actually hurt other people? Will this serve others or not? These are no other good questions. But ultimately, these processes are very complex, which is why I don't think that a child or a teenager will be able actually they can definitely ask these questions, but they might not be able to find the answers until much later in life, maybe in their late 20s or even late 30 sometimes. So for that reason, we should not rush through these. But just simply asking these types of questions from you know, from the young generation will probably be a lot more efficient than just, you know, asking, okay, where's the capital of this country will never ever visit? I think that's going to be a lot better if you approach education from this point of view.   Pouya LJ  23:37 As fascinating that actually makes a lot of sense. I think, who, when, and sometimes the The Undiscovered interest in some young person is due to actually the bad education because they grow up thinking. I don't appreciate the field. But the reality is they're not really they don't really know what the field is actually about. Or that that is a true story about my personal experience. So I guess at least there's one, you know, proof of concept here,   Dan  24:10 which is just, you know, quick preview. I'm actually curious. We don't have of course, time for a full extension, but just very briefly how you went through this?   Pouya LJ  24:17 Yeah, no, I so as you know, my, my majors are physics, astrophysics, and mathematics. And I grew up hating. I always loved physics. That was true, but I always hated maths. And I mean, obviously, we   Dan  24:30 don't imagine that somebody who hated math is now in math.   Pouya LJ  24:34 Yeah, so that's actually and I couldn't do physics without math. So that kind of pushed me to actually look at it again, and try to wrestle with it. But then then through that, I actually had an opportunity to understand what is mathematics as a not such a superficial level, but at a deeper level, and then, you know, it changed my whole outlook towards this thing. This one talking about looks about things. And not just life. But yeah, so I really never liked math and I wasn't even particularly bad at it. I was okay at it. I was not bad. Not good, but I never liked it. But then again, it just all changed. When I   Dan  25:20 wish Ah, you finally got it? Yes. Like, I'm good at this, I should focus on this.   Pouya LJ  25:26 I think it was around 25 for not for you, but probably 25 or maybe even 26. I'm not too sure.   Dan  25:33 So it was not really around your teen years, right at all. Time to figure it out.   Pouya LJ  25:38 That was the height of me hating it.   Dan  25:42 Yeah, I know, you're gonna hate it, you know, when you were a teen, and then love it when you're 25. And that happens to a lot of people not just in, you know, in your field of math and astrophysics. But like anyone that I know, I know, people who hated, you know, let's say blood. And now there are top surgeons, and I know those who will thought they left science and our top entrepreneurs and business people and they don't even can't stand the side of a university. So it already depends on how your brain fully formed, just like on the nature side, and then your life experience that you go through, all of these are going to play a huge, you know, huge a major role in the way you shape your values and your behavior and your outlook on life.   Pouya LJ  26:19 That is, that actually makes a lot of sense. And I think I think there's a value to revisiting past experience. Now rather past subjects, I suppose, or areas of interest. And with an open mind, that's the important part. Because when you're revisiting it, if it's a with a closed mind, then you're going to judge it based on your past experience, not the new experience. So that's, I think it's a very valid point. Okay, so we're coming to the end of the show here. And I'm going to allow you this time to either, you know, if we didn't mention something that you wanted to talk about, you can elaborate on that or sum up the whole conversation   Dan  26:56 very well. First of all, great topic is always projects. And today we discussed if you're how do we come to be who we are. And we discussed behavior, outlook on life, as well as value systems. And we talked about the importance of nature versus nurture, we realize that yes, the things we go through in life are very important. But that's not all that matters, even if you go through a very good childhood. But if you have certain certain biology that makes you sensational seeker, you might suffer from, you know, drug abuse later in life, even if you have been, you know, growing up with a family of two PhD parents, and a very, you know, basically safe and loving environment. On the other hand, you could bring somebody else who was, you know, basically raised in the worst of worst situations with, you know, abusive parents, or even absent parents, and he's the same person might actually end up you know, making a major contribution to the world because of their, you know, emotional wiring and their backgrounds. So, we talked about how these two factors are going to play a role. And more importantly, we discussed the importance of self, basically analysis to understand what we are, what we want in life, and how we should actually go get it. And we are discussed the fact that this might not necessarily be done by the time you're 18 years old, even though the world assumes you to be an adult by the age of 18. neuroscience proves that true adults, which really kicks in a lot later, around late 20s, actually, for most people. So now while legally you're an adult, when you're 18, the chances are, you're still mentally growing, and you have to give yourself some time, and avoid making the kind of decisions that might perhaps be regrettable. Having a tattoo included, just be careful, guys, and please stay away from butterflies, or teddy bears just don't do it, man, seriously, come on. And other than that, of course, you have to focus your attention on the future and know that you can gradually in life, change yourself through that's why this podcast is basically, you know, categorises personal development, because we believe in it, because we know that it works. And we've seen it in action. So it doesn't matter. Just like what, Dan, you just just broke my heart out, okay, I had a bad childhood is that means I'm gonna have to suffer the rest of my life? The answer is, of course not. There are ways to get over it. But if you had a tough childhood, you got to work on it, you can't just ignore it, that childhood is going to continue to play a role. If you have been diagnosed as ADHD at a young age, you're gonna have to do something about that, because you can't just ignore it, that ADHD as a child implies a certain biological characteristic that will affect the rest of your life. And then you got to keep you know, cheating on your parents on your basically, let's say on your wife, who's the parent of your child or on I don't know, your basically husband, and then you realize, Oh, my gosh, I'm a terrible parent. Oh, what did I do? I'm ruining my family. So you have to think about those questions early on before you got married. You have to, you know, resolve that issue. Whether it's with your finances, whether it's all the areas of your life, you want to actually focus on knowing yourself. That's what they say Know thyself, as basically is been basically reported. And I believe in that because that process is going to allow us to make far better decisions about our present as well as the future.   Pouya LJ  30:09 Thank you. Thank you as always for my pleasure, man, fun conversation. Appreciate it. And thank you guys for joining in tuning in listening in and leaving comments and reviews on iTunes specifically that helps us we're not trying to be pushy here. We're just trying to help get the word out. If you liked it, you can also help others to, you know, join in on the conversation and until a later episode. Have a good one.

Your life flows where your attention goes and the ability to keep your mind focused on the positive is the key to overcoming the negative moments in your life. In this episode of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel recommends the listeners to go on a three day positivity challenge and see for themselves how it affects their lives. 

Mood swings are quite common among all of us and the events of the past year have only exacerbated its prevalence which is why having a clear strategy in dealing with these emotional ups and downs proves invaluable if not downright essential. In this Episode Daniel and Pouya discuss mood swings and offer practical solutions to deal with them.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   Thu, 5/20 10:56AM • 28:54 SUMMARY KEYWORDS mood swings, people, pandemic, feeling, day, life, social media, rested, mood, normal, news media, bad, tend, eat, resist, accept, emotional, major, social, swings SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:13 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of the BTB podcast as always joined by Daniel, how's it going, my man?   Dan  00:20 What a man, buddy, how's it going good to be here with you for yet another great show basically, and obviously couldn't be any happier. Because fortunately, we're hearing a lot of great news from around the world and the positive tendency, people are talking about their summer vacations, and they're talking about how they can actually, you know, enjoy their lives. I'm hearing a lot of you know, things regarding my post pandemic bucket list is like now a trend among a lot of bloggers, and even on social media, a lot of like, Oh, my post pandemic bucket list, what's yours, here's mine. And like, that's a very positive thing to hear. And it's very inspiring. So generally, it's pretty good. And we're waiting to hopefully take our lives next level once the pandemic is over. And we can actually return to what basically we have now basically come to a really cherish called back to normal, therefore life is great and couldn't be any happier.   Pouya LJ  01:15 Absolutely, it makes lots of sense. I mean, everybody's planning, you know, what I'm going to do next, the first and second, the third after, you know, things go back to complete normalcy, I suppose. So yeah, there's a lot of those conversations going around, which is exciting. Do you have any   Dan  01:35 curious what is your posts, pandemic? They know, bucket list? What are the items? Basically, on your bucket list?   Pouya LJ  01:41 Yeah, I just just want to hang out with people. That's, that's basically, like,   Dan  01:47 fully deprived, because nobody there breaks the rule or something. Guys basically have been living, you know, without any social contact for almost a year, because the Kenyans are extremely nice. And they follow all the rules and all that. So I'm guessing you really need some social contact.   Pouya LJ  02:03 Yeah, I mean, not I mean, I'm not just talking about like, with one, I mean, like, very group activity, bunch of people, not just two or three, maybe 20.   Dan  02:13 Right, right. Well, we were not allowed to for over a year and a half now. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  02:17 Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's exactly true. What about yourself? Do you have anything that is at the top of your list, as you know,   Dan  02:22 me, I cannot even live with that group activity. So actually, I was the only I was the only basically person holding group, basically, conversations and workshops, of course, we had to scale down, we couldn't have a lot of people on board. But I was pretty much the only person that I know, among my social circle actually maintained a social basically, event on a steady basis during this time. And, quite frankly, if it wasn't for that, probably I would have, you know, really found this the whole experience much harder than it really had to be. So generally, for me, I just couldn't even wait for the pandemic to end it's like, dude, I'm not gonna wait for the end of the pandemic. I got it. I got I need at least eight people in front of me right now. Let's get going.   Pouya LJ  03:06 No, I get it. I get it. And you know, hey, as long as you've done it safe, which I'm sure you did, who cares? Right?   Dan  03:13 Obviously, everything is about safety. Man. We all care about safety. But Exactly. Alright, seatbelts before you start driving.   03:19 Exactly. That's   Dan  03:22 what we're talking about that type of safety, by the way. Yeah, fasten the seat belts. That's exactly what Jake Smith.   Pouya LJ  03:26 Yes, that's that kind of safety. Just check your mirrors and stuff.   03:31 blind spots.   Pouya LJ  03:35 All right. So now let's go back to the topic of today, which we're going to discuss how to deal with, you know, your mood swings and emotional difficulties. One might have obviously, that would be one case in the during the pandemic, but even in normal days, sometimes you don't have you're not, you know, optimally tuned emotionally, if you will. So sometimes you have mood swings, you're not well, your hormones are acting up men and women. Not particularly for specific gender, I suppose. So how would you go about dealing with that? So, so, so that's a very general question, and it's very general topic, but let's get a little bit into details. So, okay, so first of all, first, I think point is, sometimes I personally find that you're not even aware of your Metrix it's especially at the beginning of the day, right? So one element is identifying that as a as a, okay, I'm not I'm not in a good mood today, right? Sometimes it's super obvious, but sometimes it's not the cases that are not very obvious. What are your mechanisms to evaluate your mood on a day to day basis, if you have any doubt?   Dan  04:48 Of course, well, first of all, mood swing is a mistake if you had any because ultimately being human will make you subject to this mood swing. The question is how much how frequently And to what intensity can you actually get it back to normal. Ultimately, we all are subjected to this issue of, you know, mood swings, it happens to all of us. However, some of us by a combination of genetics, or mythology and gender are more or less likely to suffer from mood swings. However, it is something that happens to every single one of us. I know a gentleman who said, I don't have a bad day. That gentlemen is Vladimir Putin. So if that's exactly what he really meant, I'm not sure if he was telling the truth in this situation, although Mr. Putin is not famous for telling the truth anyways. But the fact of the matter is, one of the things that many men are especially proud themselves on is that I do not have bad days where I'm always feeling great, I'm always in the sweet spot. Well, I think that should be an ideal that every man and woman should probably aspire for. But that's not the journey, it means our desire to have no mood swings, it requires us to actually go through a very lengthy process of personal development both physically, because a great deal of you know, mood swings, basically have to do with our general, you know, level of health, energy, amount of sleep we get how healthy Our lives are, are we smokers and non smokers do we drink a lot of coffee in the morning and have a lot of caffeine on our system? Or do we tend to eat healthier, and we avoid all these basically junk foods and stimulants. So a great deal of that comes down to our health. And of course, part of that is just pure genetics, some of us are basically less stress resistant. And that itself means that we are a lot more likely to go through the emotional swings as the environment around us actually goes through all the inevitable changes that it actually goes through. And of course, finally, it's about gender. Again, there are studies that prove that women tend to be experiencing that more often, especially in an age when they are feeling certain hormonal, basically, changes in their body. However, that's, of course, very small influencing factor. This means that mood swings is what basically affects both men and women, across all ages and backgrounds. So it happens to all of us. However, what Vladimir Putin said, but I don't have a bad days, probably like, I tend to have more good days and bad days. And I think that that is a more realistic approach to aim for, and a more honest declaration that a man can make, because no matter how you know, how much you work, because if right now, tell our listeners Yeah, man, there are a lot of people out there who don't have bad days, like, oh, man, I feel like she look at all these people are having all the time they're having good days in my life sucks. Because that's a lie. It's not true, it's quite normal to have bad days, I don't know, I know a single person that I really personally know who did doesn't have a bad day. Even though they are having a very healthy, successful lifestyle, they still go through those ups and downs, just like anybody else will go through them, because it's human nature. However, while it is normal to have mood swings, it is not really normal to have those mood swings happening very frequently. And it's also not very efficient to let those mood swings affect your life in a way that it might actually interfere with your day to day functioning or making, you know, very bad decisions, oftentimes life, you know, lifelong consequences. So for that reason, we need to actually look at the issue of it more seriously except mood swing as an inevitable part of being human. But at the same time, we're going ourselves to actually somehow alleviate the negative side effects. So do I have mood swings? Definitely I do. But does it happen very frequently, I hope not. I try my very best to maintain a healthy lifestyle doesn't happen. And more importantly, so by the way you think so the way you think affects whether you will have mood swings, whenever you're always thinking in a way that is causing you stress or is reducing your self confidence, of course, you will go through those depressive cycles, you're going to go up and down. But if you tend to think in a more healthy positive way, you are more optimistic, obviously, you will go through them a lot less. However, with that being said, the pandemic that just occurred, unfortunately, is a source of tremendous emotional anger among people around the world. And that's exactly what caused us to experience. So many reports of suicidal thoughts, major mood swings, severe depressions, these were like some of the common things we heard a lot during the pandemic. And it's quite normal. If you keep someone in their room all day long for I don't know, months, if not years, obviously, something's gonna go wrong. That's not what the body is designed to do. However, there are obviously techniques around the world that can allow us to hopefully reduce these swings as much as possible and to hopefully increase the amount of stability and tranquility in our lives.   Pouya LJ  09:35 Yeah, that actually does make a lot of sense. And I wanted to actually bring us back to a point that you made briefly kind of an a minute or two ago and that was about the your mentality actually affects your moods as well. Like, that couldn't be that couldn't be more emphasized, I suppose. Because, like look, if you're on social Media 24 seven, I don't know consuming news 24 seven, I don't imagine how your mood would be. So our habits, even even the social, immediate social groups you're holding, I think that's why I think it's very important to, to pay attention to the type of people you're hanging out with, depending on what's your intention, what's your goals are? Well, of course, we're talking about emotional moods, but also life goals. Right. So I think, I think there's an emphasis to be made there. I just wanted to bring it that back. Again, that's why I mean, I have nothing against social media, but it can't be positive, particularly healthy if you're over consuming it. If you're over exposed to the world, I suppose by news outlets, social media, etc. I don't know if you have anything further to say there. And   Dan  10:47 you just put it out. That's a very, you know, two major sources of mood swings, the news media, which is predominantly negative. And because let's be honest, the news media is a business is the I'm an entrepreneur, I look at all things through the prism and the lenses of business and profitability. And when you look at most news media's basic model of business, they just want to attract more viewers, and they do it at any cost. And the cost is ultimately scaring people because people I mean, in the modern world are extremely busy, they have a lot of, you know, ways to keep their, you know, attention focused on different activities. So, in this situation, the media has to really focus on the negative and on the scary to attract enough viewers to make a profit. For that reason, the media, especially the news media is not really designed for informing people of the news. More importantly, it's about generating profit for the mass media. And that obviously entails a lot of negativity and fear, which is why those who watch a lot of news tend to be very stressed and nervous most of the time. The other one that you point at, basically pretty well. And that's so true, it's about the social media, it is proven that the more time you spend on social media, the more likely you are to suffer from depression, the more likely you are to suffer from lack of self confidence. And ironically use the report far less levels of life satisfaction has been done, through you know, throughout various researchers that have been published in various journals, it is proven now that social media has, you know, a direct impact on your level of emotional, basically, perhaps problems, issues, and even mood swings, as we discussed earlier. For that reason. That's one of the issues, which obviously comes down to managing the psychology again, mood swings is not purely psychological. Because nothing psychological really is purely psychological, there's always a link between the body and the mind. So mood swings aren't just if you really had a great time, last time you went to a party, and you drank a lot. And you know, maybe smoke a little bit as well. Don't expect to have a very good night's sleep, don't expect to get four or five REM cycles throughout the night because you're drunk. So you cannot have you know, proper REM basically cycles, you cannot sleep well, because of all that nicotine in your system. And when you wake up in the morning, you know, tired like a zombie, you cannot expect to jump out like Yes, I'm ready for a good day, of course, like, oh, gosh, what did I do yesterday. So that's exactly what happens to all of us. So all these issues comes down to the body and the mind. So the pandemic, you know, put a very major limitation on our physical freedom. So we're going to move as much outdoor, we're going to be in social settings. And that is important because your biology basically makes 50% of your entire emotional makeup. And then of course, the other part is your psychology. Do you tend to be in a happy relationship? Are you surrounded by your friends and loved ones, because we are social creatures, we are not meant to be loners. And so you know, the modern world, unfortunately, sometimes makes it seem like it's okay and normal, to be alone to be like, Oh, I'm so cool. I'm so independent. But in reality, that's just a fantasy. It's just a way of, you know, trying to say things that you're, you know, you're super cool. But in fact, this goes against our basic evolutionary wiring, even if you are interested. I mean, it's not just about extroverts, like me, it's it goes back to our very nature as a species. For that reason. Both of these elements are important. You pointed out social media mass media, you're definitely right about this, which is why I'm strictly against watching the news, especially watching the news is a major stressor. Because these news media basically outlets are trained how to make their headlines extremely stressful, so they can actually attract your attention. And you can watch those material the same thing, of course goes on social media, people posting all their photos. Oh, I'm always on vacation. I'm always wearing this bikini and I never looked fat because I use all these beauty basically apps that made me I don't know, seem to have perhaps 25 pounds, much lighter than I am currently and obviously all those lights gonna make me look like I'm the Miss USA but in fact, if you see me in the in the morning, you don't even want to talk to me. So a lot of girls watch those girl like oh my goodness, look at her. She's so First of all people, and boom, guess what, who's going to get depressed? Obviously, because people aren't there. Everybody knows that people put their very best moments on social media they upload, they're very like, look at me, I'm always traveling. Yeah, working as a, you know, an accountant who hates her job most of the time, and just saving all these travelers to post regularly on a weekly basis, of course, or look at me, I'm so rich, I am currently driving Lamborghini. Oh, by the way, sign up for my $1 course, yeah, you're super rich, you want to sell it for $1. That's just how rich you are. So in reality, people tend to look at these things. They look at his life and look at my life, man, I'm a loser. And they're going to feel like shit. But once we raise the awareness, and realize that social media, especially our posts have no reflection, and I mean, no reflection of our real lives, then we'll actually not take it so seriously. And we spent, ideally less time on these platforms. And we spend more time doing things that are more productive, including socializing, making friends and talking to people directly. Instead of through, you know, sending stupid comments like You're the best, or I don't know, great with a with a with a number eight, gr eight, come on, man, stop it. And all those things, you instead try to meet real people talk to them, call your best friend, what's going on, man? What's up girl? And these are the things that actually get, you know, help us deal with this and not wasting time on social media and, you know, in front of the mass media.   Pouya LJ  16:33 Exactly. And I think I think I missed the, you know, the consumption of the food part, like the things that you eat part. Obviously, that has an impact. Good, good that you pointed it out. Now. Okay, so we have a, I think we established a very good methodology to minimize our downtime, down days, let's call it or downtime, but in terms of emotionally, so but but as you mentioned, it's fairly reasonable to say, probably impossible for any human being to be on all the good day, every single day   Dan  17:12 is practically impossible. Impossible, I practice NLP every morning to get myself in a great state of mind. And I've been doing this for years now. Now, most of my friends have never seen me down, obviously. But at the same time, even someone like me, I have, you know, my bad days, too. I mean, it's, I have my own share of bad days. Fortunately, fortunately, again, I don't want to like, basically, brag, but fortunately, those days tend to not be too many. But I'm still a human being. And even if you know all the science of you know, NLP and psychology and you exercise the way I do three times per day and all that and try to eat healthy, it's still gonna go through those inevitable tough moments. We all have bad days, and it's completely normal. However, like I mentioned earlier, the key here is dosage, the amount the frequency, these are the things if you are living like oh, it's good. It's good to have a you know, emotionally unhealthy life. So doesn't matter I'm going to get through my life the way it was, No, man, if you're experiencing major emotional strings is happening frequently. That is a disease, man, you got to deal with that. But at the same time, don't bash yourself on the head, if perhaps you're not having a perfect day, 365 days, basically a year, that's quite normal. However, our goal is always to avoid perfectionism and instead try to make things a little bit better. How can I instead of being you know, pissed off half the time be pissed off 1/3 of the time? How can I actually have more, you know, fun, and enjoy my days a bit more and reduce these mood swings, that should be I think, our target, which is a lot more realistic, and achievable.   Pouya LJ  18:45 Perfect, but this is where I'm going with this. we land on those days, and happens to humans, you're right, we want to minimize the number of times and then density of it, but it happens with whatever intensity or whatever frequency, you find yourself in one of those days. That is not it sucks, you feel shit. What do we do?   Dan  19:07 Oh, you see, psychologist called is having feelings about your feelings. And that is one of the major causes of rumination and depression. You see, as I mentioned earlier, it's quite normal to have bad days. But the problem is some people feel bad for having basically bad is they feel bad about feeling bad. And this ultimately makes them you know, extremely unhappy. So I understand accept the days that are you know, not bad as as they are. do not reject them. Do not resist them. Don't feel bad about them. Because that's what we do a lot. It's like shit, I'm feeling like shit, and I feel like should because I'm feeling like shit. And this unfortunately creates a very negative inner cycle. It makes it much harder to you know, recover from that. So you will literally program yourself to feel action for the rest of that day. Instead, what do you what you what I would do on a day like that? I would say oh well I'm not as well rested, as I expect, because we're working yesterday on a project. Let's call it a project. And unfortunately, we were, I was not able to get enough rest, okay? So I see, well, there's, for every basically benefit, there's a cost, you got to pay the cost, I pay the cost I see. So we didn't get eight hours as I expected, it was actually six hours. So I am going to go through the rest of the day feeling basically not well rested, I accept it. I'm not going to resist it. I'm not gonna fight it. I'm gonna say, why am I not feeling good? Today? It's terrible. I hate it. No, all right, I'm not going to resist it. I accept that today, I'm not going to be well rested. But just because I'm feeling like shit, and I'm not well rested, doesn't mean that a whole day is going to be shaped like, okay, so I'm definitely not going to be my most cheerful, probably, I'm not gonna be able to make as many jokes today, because I can't even you know, I don't even have a sense of humor today. But how else can I enjoy today, in the best way possible, maybe I should perhaps put a bit more I basically, I don't know, perhaps, I don't know jelly and my breakfast to make it a little bit cooler. Or maybe I should go for a run, or perhaps I'm going to try to you know, go for a, let's say, five, let's say 10 minute run, because I'm a runner. So I'm going to do it, let's do it a little bit longer today to enjoy that. Or, since I'm not going to be very positive today, maybe I'm gonna be a little grumpy. So I will tend to avoid most of the situations where I'm expected to be super funny, and instead will work instead on my sales tax. Today, I'm going to just do my taxes today. I don't, I'm not going to basically go out and meet people face to face, I will postpone my meetings for the next day. And today, I'll do my boring stuff, my tax papers, for example, and other stuff to see, you don't resist it. You don't say why it happened to me why I'm feeling like shit, you don't have feelings about your feelings. You accept them as they are, you don't resist them. And once you stop resisting them, now you open up the possibility to actually make that date much better than it would have been if you simply just blamed yourself on oh my gosh, I'm feeling like shit. So that is what I view myself during those days when I might not be at my peak. And I recommend everybody else do the same. Because once you stop judging it, once you accept it, it actually becomes a lot easier. And you might ironically, this is what happens most of the time when I feel like I'm not well rested in the morning, or I'm not as fresh today, or I'm not as you know, let's say cheerful. I simply accept it. I go through the day as normal. And guess what, by the time I reach evening, I'm already in good moods because I didn't resist it, right? But if you resist that, it's like, oh, my gosh, you will go through the entire day and feel anxious. And probably that feeling might even persist for the next few days or weeks. So why don't we just stop resisting it, accept it is what it is and try to make the most of it. I think that's the far better approach than just feeling bad about feeling bad.   Pouya LJ  22:50 Exactly. If that makes that makes a lot of sense. actually feeling bad about feeling bad. It's feeling bad squared to the power and slowly.   Dan  22:59 Now we're going Superman here. But yeah, that's for those mathematicians and nerds. That's exactly you're literally and as all mathematicians know, when you square something, that feeling that's that's what that's called exponential growth. This means as you go through the day, you're, you know, the negative feelings exponentially increase. Can you believe that? Because you mentioned that Grayson, like squared, that is exactly what happens. So you walk in the morning feel like shit, but that negative feeling will then exponentially grow over time. So by the time you reach the evening, you just feel like hell, and that's what 11 million to get super depressed, even, you know, do crazy stuff. So they start, you know, using alcohol or drugs for that reason, because it's getting worse and worse, like, what should I do? How can I regulate my state? Okay, I'm gonna just, you know, go for drugs, for that reason, right? Once you avoid making it squared, you simply allow yourself away out.   Pouya LJ  23:51 Yeah, exactly. And that and that's, that's, I think there's so many good advice. I actually haven't really thought about what you're going to say. So I wasn't anticipating anything. And I, I'm just blown away. Basically, that's what I'm trying to say.   Dan  24:03 My pleasure, man. My pleasure. All right.   Pouya LJ  24:05 Okay, so we are kinda coming humming along to the end of the show. Is there anything in particular that we didn't talk about or anything you want to revisit at this stage?   Dan  24:16 Well, first of all, you mentioned all the things that we had to say to our audience regarding the the issue of mood swings, the thing that we didn't talk as much obviously was perhaps our biology, I mentioned earlier, there are clear linkages between what you eat and how much especially sugar you consume, and other stimulants and how stable you are. So if you're a I don't know I have a lot of my friends. If you are, for example, addicted to certain types of basically a mood altering substances, let's say nicotine, let's say sugar, let's say energy drinks and these cramps, and I really hate it, unfortunately, that I'm seeing these days. Many celebrities and many basically, influencers are unfortunately selling this junk to people energy drinks I really like energy and should be abolished from from the entire face of the Earth. But unfortunately, now we're seeing a new trend. People call it Oh, I can live like hell and then have energy is going to solve all my problems. Now, if you believe in placebo, Yeah, it does. But in reality, you actually ruined the body. So the other things we discussed, was about, of course, managing our mind being positive and not having feelings about our feelings, because it's completely normal to have bad days, no one's gonna judge you for that you should not judge yourself, either. Just go through the day, accept it as what it is. And more importantly, try to understand that it's going to be just one day, if you don't resist it, probably you'll have a bad day for one day, and the next morning, you're going to feel fresh, and I'm just going to be go back to normal. But if you keep persisting on negativity, you might actually, you know, get them over the major, you know, depressive cycle that could last for weeks, if not months. And above all, take care of your health. That means sufficient physical activities. If you don't like if you're not like a gym rat, the way I am, no problem, go for walks, you know, put that goddamn car away, you're going to be saving the planet by reducing the carbon emission. And at the same time, you will get a lot more physical activities, use the public transport Trust me, I am in a lot of great contexts in public transport. I love public transport, they make me so happy over the years, man, I love the public transport. But the point is, you really need to be more active, perhaps being, you know, perhaps trying to change your basically schedule, the way that you're more on foot and you're less in your car, even ideally, doing more aerobic exercise, perhaps then of course, your diet take care of that. How do you eat? How much do you eat? And more importantly, at what portions and at what times of the day? These are all important factors? Do you take regular supplements for multivitamin minerals, trust me, it is important you simply and I know I want to eat all these things naturally? Well, it is proven that no matter how well you eat on a regular basis, if you're living in a modern city, buying the junk food that we buy these days called, you know, fruits and vegetables, which most of them actually aren't even organic, you're not going to get enough vitamins and minerals. So you need to have that supplements, find the one that works for you. And regularly take the supplements, it's definitely gonna help with your mood swings as well. And above all, do not have feelings about your feelings during those bad days. You can do all these things, you can have the regular exercise routine, you can eat healthy, you can have great relationships, you can do everything right. But you can still have shitty days, we all have them. So when it happens, just accept as what it is. Let it go and try to make the most of it. And trust me if you do that, you will probably not have to repeat the same experience the next day.   Pouya LJ  27:41 Amazing. Biology biology shall not be missed.   Dan  27:45 That was a very Darth Vader type of style. I really liked it.   Pouya LJ  27:49 Well, I mean, introducing drama sometimes from time to time. Alright, thank you for joining us. As always, Dan, for this episode. Pleasure, man. And I appreciate you all for listening in tuning in. Without you guys, we're just humming to the void. So thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for participating if you're leaving comments, and thank you for your suggestions privately and the DMS and whatnot. And until a later episode, have a good one.

Consistency is dubbed the key to long-term success but we all have at some point struggled with lack of consistency. In this program, Daniel and Pouya discuss how we can remain consistent in the pursuit of our goals and gain streaks that are actually lasting.     Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   Wed, 5/12 8:42AM • 36:53 SUMMARY KEYWORDS consistency, streak, reward, days, called, gamification, duolingo, discipline, pandemic, people, literally, consistent, life, process, trophy, exercise, addicted, book, reinforcement, maintain SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:13 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to yet another episode of The BTP podcast as always joined by Daniel Morgan, how's it going? Man?   Dan  00:22 What up man? How's it going miss you a lot, buddy. How you doing? How is life I thought Canada's been shut down completely, thanks to pretty much unfriendly neighbor, which is called United States. Sorry, just didn't happen, unfortunately, to give you the vaccines there. But overall, I'm glad to be here with you, man, life is great. And fortunately, we are seeing as I expected, a much more optimistic, basically summer, we're getting closer to it and couldn't be any happier. We're hearing some good news. Unfortunately, of course, there are still parts of the world that are now suffering heavily, namely, India is one of them. But overall, we are seeing grain Oh, it was announced three days ago, basically, that we have now reached a plateau worldwide. In the pandemic. This means that from here on end, the numbers both in terms of infections and death will only basically come down over the coming, let's say 10 months or so. And that means that we're basically as was very intelligently predicted by Dr. Fauci. By the end of 2021, q4, hopefully, life gradually begins to get back to normal, and we're very happy about that matter. So that's pretty good. This means open borders, open borders means more flights and travels, it means more business. It means just pure happiness. So glad to be here with you, man. How are you doing? How's life in Canada?   Pouya LJ  01:41 No, that's good. Um, I think we're all looking forward to that pure happiness section of the argument.   Dan  01:49 We've been waiting for too damn long, man. God dammit. It was too tough.   Pouya LJ  01:53 It was too tough. Yeah, no, it was long. And I think I think the part that was long was probably, I guess everybody, like most people would say the same thing. But it was probably the toughest part for me, because, you know, endurance is that is the judge.   Dan  02:10 Imagine you are technically an ambivert. This means that you have as much introversion as you have extraversion. Imagine someone who has been diagnosed as 99.9% extroverted will experience this pandemic. Oh, my   Pouya LJ  02:25 gosh, yeah, no, I know. It's, it's definitely, definitely tough. And, yeah, the good thing is, I think, if we're not jinxing it, I think that the hump of the whole thing is behind us. So we are   Dan  02:40 Yeah, we are we are rolling down worst is behind us. That's the good part. The worst is behind us everywhere worldwide, because this issue cannot be solved. If I don't know just the United States gets fully vaccinated this issue that worldwide. And this means that so long as there are nations that are way behind, this is not just going to jeopardize their well being but the entire global community. So this issue can really be resolved. When this issue is resolved International. I mean, China was way out of this many months ago, but they're still not living normally. So until and unless all nations are basically on par with this, we cannot really call it over because it's a pandemic. It's a global issue.   Pouya LJ  03:18 No, that makes a lot of sense. And that's, I think, absolutely valid. And hope. Look, as you said, hopefully by the end of 2022 sorry. 2021 Oh my God, I'm still in the old calendar. By the end of   Dan  03:32 That's how we are. Like, imagine like five years from now like 2020 it's like, no Sonny's over we're past that. And it's all good. It's all good. Right?   Pouya LJ  03:44 Exactly. So yeah, really   Dan  03:46 traumatized by the experiences   Pouya LJ  03:48 like that. I know I Amen. But anyway, so by the end of this year, hopefully, we are going to experience some resemblance of normalcy at a worldwide level as you said, and until then, we keep looking, keep keeping our audience up to date on the subject, but today we're going to talk about something slightly different. But it is I guess, important actually coming out of the pandemic, and that is Right, right. And that is how to keep up our our consistency so I'll give you an example I will sometimes start working on a project and you know you have good days that you really on on task you really feel like it and you're achieving things your mental capacities up or physical capacity depending on your project. But there are days of course, we all experienced this that are not so much optimal and you have this you know feeling of dragging yourself if you will and then the natural question is okay, this is completely detrimental to your process progress because you have so many of those good days and and many days are average or below So, but you need to keep the consistency because you want to achieve your goal. And the question is, how would you basically keep that up? In spite of all of those average or below average or outright terrible days? That is my question to you.   Dan  05:17 First of all, I want to thank you for your overdramatic, you know, description, like literally, I just imagined he basically poo Jake's literally dragging himself out of the bed as he crawls, and the saliva is drooling out of his mouth, like God got to do this gut thing again, like, I kind of imagined that. But let's be honest,   Pouya LJ  05:37 believe me how, believe me, that picture is closer to reality than you imagine.   Dan  05:43 Exactly, I wanted to tell you that as well. Like, unfortunately, this is the pandemic, this really became the norm. I mean, just heard the news from New York Times about all these companies that are now trying to profit from losing all the pounds that they have actually gained with a pandemic. So we've really been living very, in a very unhealthy manner. People call it healthy. But I think in the process of preventing illness, we have actually abandoned health completely, both mentally, psychologically, socially, and, of course, physically. But what you're saying, unfortunately, happens to a lot of us. And I really believe that the key issue here is knowing why these situations occur in the first place, how we can prevent them from happening, and why consistency, as you pointed out, is so important. You see, that's the the main issue. First of all, the problem with consistency is not something that is limited to the confines of let's say, a pandemic or a global crisis. This is a basic fundamental human issue. I mean, we haven't had this problem, if you look at your life, I mean, the pandemic just started last year. So it hasn't been just the pandemic itself. And if you look back, or, you know, history, realize we've had problems with lack of consistency throughout our lives, whether it was in, you know, high school, whether it was in college, and somebody matters. So the problem with that is, we humans generally are wired to be more concerned about the present moment, we have a present bias, if you will, as a species. And I talked earlier about this, basically, on social media, because once we understand our very fabric as a human being, and understand that we are designed in a way that we are rather very unstable by nature, I mean, just if we just miss our sleep for one night, just imagine what it does. Research has proven things far less as basically dramatic and far more subtle can affect the way we think and make decisions. For example, the amount of glucose in your bloodstream, the amount of hormones are you today getting high testosterone or low testosterone. So gentlemen, if you're a lady, is the estrogen progesterone going up or coming down, these little changes in your home analogy is definitely going to change the way you feel. Which is why if we want to leave things to be done by how we feel, we almost never, ever finished a project. That is why we as a species, fundamentally need leaders. Because basically, what the job of a leader really is, is to just keep people going and pushing when everybody else has, you know, perhaps gotten tired, or they have forgotten the goals. And that is why leadership is rather a very difficult, basically the responsibility because the leader himself or herself, is also a human being subject to all of those, you know, things we just mentioned. However, the good thing about this issue is that we all can learn the skill of consistency, like it's like anything else, like a muscle? Yes, no one is born with the capacity, I don't know, to benchpress 200 pounds, I don't know, 12 reps, that's not going to be like nobody's born with that capacity, we have to learn it. And I believe that consistency while influenced by our childhood, upbringing, level of education, and DNA and biology, still could be learned and improved for the most part. And that is why I believe it's incredibly important to learn that if we want to get things done, we better learn to basically toughen the muscles of consistency. Because if we just want to let our feelings run the show, we almost never get any task that is long term or midterm done. Basically, it's just simply not possible.   Pouya LJ  09:30 Now, that makes a lot of sense. And I think the part you mentioned about the leaders is, and that's exactly that's why makes the job of a leader extremely difficult. Like, I mean, let's go to the extreme. Let's say you're I don't know, let's say president of a country, let's say President of the United States, and then you're dealing with international crises well, such as COVID, I suppose, but what they can't really say I'm not in mood today.   Dan  09:57 You know what I mean? Today, come on me. Don't want to just solve the problem. I mean, give me a break for five days, God dammit, man, people are gonna die, I'm gonna come back, we'll see what happens. That's not possible. And again, this is not limited to leadership and politics as part of the same thing, leadership and a team and a group and a business and enterprise, all of these things because ultimately, the leaders job, pretty much if you want to, like, you know, avoid all the sugar coating your team or the entire nation towards the goal. Even during those days when the team or the nation says now I don't feel like it are all the world is coming to an end Oh, apocalypses here, right. So for that reason we need them. However, I still believe that inside every follower, there is a leader. And good nations, just like good teams are made of the people who not only have leaders, but also the followers themselves are capable of practicing some leadership. That's called self discipline. So anytime any person uses the practice of discipline, he or she is a leader in that situation, even if he or she has a boss or a manager or whatever. So we all can learn this skill, it's just learnable. It's not easy nor fun, which is why I also stated that that push by, you know, from the top, but usually we all can learn it. And that is why I believe that consistency should be taken very seriously. Because without consistency, almost no task will get done. We need that inner motivation, we have to persuade ourselves and understand without basically consistency, there cannot be any results, we have no choice. It's kind of like, you know, when you have to take that, you know, medication, you just don't like to taste, you're gonna want to planet, okay, every eight hours or so, Oh, my gosh, I go now send an alarm here, which you got to do it because you gotta get the job done. For that reason, I believe it is incredibly important, not only for the leader to keep pushing people, but the followers themselves to practice leadership within their own basically tasks responsibilities.   Pouya LJ  12:06 Very well. So I think that Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. And, yeah, so organization wise, that's, that's, that's one aspect of all of this. But there's also another aspect that you're on a very day to day basis, like you I know. So let's actually bring it to a practical examples, because because I know you have consistency in a few few subjects as least as such as, you know, physical activity, bodybuilding, you know, going to the gym, also language learning, like you have these streaks hours, right, using different apps such as Duolingo, etc. So exactly what what is for, for lack of a better word, and in the hopes that I'm not looking too cliche, but what is your secret? Essentially?   Dan  12:56 That's right, well, first of all, you've pointed out two things, which is exercise, and basically Duolingo, which I do daily, but the truth of the matter is, I have straits in pretty much every area of my life, many of which are not known, even sometimes to myself, but it's just like a habit, you see, I really believe that it's all your life is a result of your habits. And your habits oftentimes, are the ones that drive. So honestly speaking, there's no real secret other than creating the habit, of course, I gotta be honest with our audience, I have basically spent many years learning the concept of NLP or neuro linguistic programming. Now, I gotta be honest with you guys. If you know NLP, it's a lot easier to change your emotional associations with things that will give you motivation. But nobody has to be an NLP expert to be able to motivate themselves or have consistency. But if I want to give you the ultimate secret, everything that we do on a regular basis comes down to a reward and punishment. So the key to staying consistent in any task, whether it is to do your Mandarin Chinese practice, or Andrew lingo, I don't know for 500 days straight, or whether it is to go to the gym every single day, even if it's raining outside or don't feel like or you're sick, or trying to keep certain amount of basically customers on the pipeline to make sure you call them on a regular basis to get the business or to visit. For example, let's say one of my streaks in real estate is to contact a certain number of homeowners, and to offer them a price below the market price every single week. So like if my target is like 10 properties per app per week, I do this. However, I got to give you a little bit of a secret here and it's called rewarding yourself. You see, any time I engage in maintaining, for example, a streak in any activity, whether it is to you know, to go to the gym, whether it is to contact the customer, whether it is to I don't know, perhaps do my exercises or whatever it is at the end of that practice. And by the way, we use the sentence training people as well as animals Believe in your own eye, this technique is used all the time, I reward myself. Now that reward could come in variety of shapes. So as I keep my, for example, daily streak in my exercise, I stay forever, literally, I make a plan for like, for every seven days, when I maintain my exercise, I'm going to have a cheat day where I'm gonna have to Pete says, and I'm going to just enjoy, right, and I literally reward myself. I also have a journal, a gold journal, in which I reward my actions and streets, and I keep track of them. For example, right now, in this month journal, I know that I kept my streak on a daily basis with my Chinese every single day. But I was somehow a little bit as somehow not quite serious with my French, for example, right? So I journal my day and my goals and my habits. You see, when you journal is something we call this process gamification. And gamification is used by gaming, or basically, again, developers and gaming companies to make millions of people literally addicted to their favorite game on a daily basis. I'm I mean, right now, every single one of us who are right now listening to this program, we have some things we have a daily streak on. I'm pretty sure if you're listening to us right now you're, you know, online savvy, and you probably love social media, which means pretty much everyone who listens to this show has at least one daily streak is called Facebook or Instagram. If you're writing and listening, the chances are you have subconsciously maintained probably 300 plus days of straight on Instagram, for example, you got to check that thing that's called making something addictive. So guess what, I have studied the science of addiction and how gamification works to make users sometimes in a very unethical manner, addicted. So I'm pretty sure that Facebook and many other social and social media platforms are using some unethical ways to addict. They're basically users. And I use the exact same principles to literally get myself addicted to good things. For example, every audio book or book that I finish, I give myself a trophy for that. And I literally have used I have basically copied, I ripped off the trophy system that is used in a top gaming companies. For example, if you're a, you know, Playstation gamer, there's this system called trophies, which is a made of bronze, silver, gold and platinum. So you get the Platinum pretty much just like the biggest trophy you can get for getting old trophies in one game, right? Let here's one of my secrets to all my audience. today. I have a real life trophy system that I have ruthlessly ripped off from Sony, and I'm using it in my real life. I'm not kidding you. So on my to do list, there's a set of goals, I have associated every streak with a specific trophy. So if it's a very easy one, like doing 15 minutes of Mandarin Chinese, I give myself a bronze trophy for doing that. If it is a little bit harder and requires me to go through five languages in one day, I give myself a silver finishing a book in less than one week, I give myself a gold trophy. And this little silly gamified system. And I even literally level up myself based on my performance. Just Just for the record. Right now my level is 233 based on my streaks tissue, right? So this little silly games that I play, which I have, of course, I haven't really made that up, I actually learned this from my teachers and mentors, because they have their own similar versions of rewarding themselves. These are systems designed to reward you. And the brain is wired this way. When a certain activity gets repeatedly rewarded, especially if the activity is hard to do. The brain suddenly releases dopamine, as soon as the process is accomplished. And that dopamine rush is extremely addictive dies, I have reached out on a streak of many hundreds of almost two years in the streets on Duolingo. Because quite frankly speaking, I will find it much harder to miss my streak than not to actually go with a streak. Why? Because now I have been literally addicted to the process. Because I know that for every single day that I am going to finish my straight, I will be rewarded somehow. So the brain learns Oh, yes, it's a hard process, you get the reward. Dopamine kicks in. And this process after about 21 days becomes highly addictive. For the same reason I am addicted to exercising if I had a long flight one and I miss my exercise, I will feel much worse than if I actually do this. I was telling the story in one of my seminars. I was actually because I had a very long international flight. I was doing push ups with the permission of the flight attendant during the flight I just couldn't wait anymore. I was like, come on, man. I gotta do it. And of course it's caused a huge scene. Obviously people taking photos and videos. It was a mess, but I had to do it. And I was like now I need something to climb on. I got to do my basically push ups. Do that. Come on, sir, please sit down, and all that stuff, right. So what I'm really saying I have the same thing for every book that I finished and I finish an average of one book per week. Again, my, the books that I finish are usually all nonfiction, I do not consider, I don't know, reading Harry Potter to be certainly growth reading. So when I'm saying reading, I'm talking to like, boring type of reading, I'm talking about like, really scientific type of books, business type of books that kind of looks at you really don't want to read on, you know, let's say, on your vacation. And but the reason is very simple, because I am basically making myself addicted to the process through reinforcement and reward. So if you want to do that for yourself, anytime you want to have any good habits, whether it is to exercise regularly, to do a certain number of calls, as a salesperson, or whatever it is, you need to learn to reward yourself, that reward is very important at work comes in many forms. I use all of them. But there are basically two main types personal and social. So I actually very, you know, unapologetically, I make a public announcement of my streets every I don't know, one year or so. Because that social feedback actually, itself acts as a reinforcement. But given the person that the fact that we cannot rely on social enforcement all the time, I rely mainly on personal forms of reporting, which often comes in forms of rewarding myself, like my exercise every seven days of street and exercise means I get to eat to pee says on the weekends, that's one form of reinforcing. And in other ways, whether it is for example, language, learning, whether it is anything else, so if you want to get good at something, and you want to maintain consistency, understand your discipline cannot get you through all the time, because your willpower will never last. So I never rely on willpower. It wasn't like can you probably are the God of consistency, because you have so much willpower? Of course not. The reason is not that I have, you know, I'm still a human being like everybody else. I'm not a robot. I'm not a Google, I'm not, I don't know what Siri, I'm a human being. And I go through the same ups and downs, basically, as all other people. However, once you love something, and you're addicted to it, it is no longer difficult to do for me. missing out on Duolingo is like somebody who was hooked on social media not to have access to his or her phone for one week, that person will go berserk and crazy right? Here. That's what most people do wrong, if you like, the key to consistency is to make myself do what I hate. Yeah, well guess what willpower doesn't last, not for too long, eventually, you'll get tired. And that's what most people do. They want to go on a date start exercising, they get a little bit tired, they hate themselves start eating again. And they actually end up gaining more weight and actually first started. So the key here is you're making the process painful, I do the exact opposite. Opposite, I make the process more fun, and not doing it painful. So for me losing my streak is now going to be painful, because now I worked on it for 600 days. Imagine you work on a project for 600 days, you it's like a baby, you want to keep going at it right. And that's the beauty of momentum. This means you got to work at consistency is one of those the other series I'm gonna share with you, you get to work with consistency for only a few days, maybe a few months after that consistency will work on you. And it becomes harder to miss than to do. So when you put it all together, we all can use reinforcement, plus, basically making the process more fun. And more importantly, staying with something for about a few weeks. I call it the 21 day rule until it becomes a habit. Once it's a habit. It is no longer difficult. I gotta be honest with you. I do know there are times of course when I feel like yeah, you know what? I don't really feel like doing it. Yes. During those days, I have no choice but to use discipline. But please understand. I'm using discipline not every day. But occasionally on those days when I really don't feel like but what am I really the exact opposite. That is they want to use their discipline every single day because the process is pretty boring for them. And they will run out of juice and boom, they give up. So for me, it's the opposite. It's enjoying the process. And on those occasions, which is quite normal. It happens to everybody where I really don't feel like it. I say Listen, man, come on discipline, do it now. And I get Yeah, I do it. But I use those again occasionally and not every single day.   Pouya LJ  24:39 That's fascinating. It's actually dig. Very helpful. I think you're right. Starting it is probably first few days, weeks, maybe maybe months depending on the task at hand might be most difficult. And that's where most people end up giving up or absolutely not continuing grasp. So, in that sense, I   Dan  25:01 think you're so right now, is there anything in your life that you have really maintained long streaks at, because oftentimes is something that you really enjoy doing because maintaining streaks for some that you really enjoy doing, or something is very meaningful that maybe you don't really I don't really always enjoy doing I don't know my Mandarin flashcards, honestly, sometimes really boring. And you look at this character, it's like, God dammit, they're like, 200 points in this little shitty character. How am I supposed to memorize this? Right? So you don't always, but maybe because it's part of my identity as an international business person. So I got to learn this goddamn physical language, I have no other choice. So either it's part of your identity, or you really enjoyed, but it's something that is meaningful to you, is your writing on any aspect of your life that you feel like you maintain, you know, a high level of consistency at?   Pouya LJ  25:51 Not so much recently. So there are a couple of instances that comes to mind. I was while you were describing, I was actually thinking about this. And I guess I used to well, depends on the timeframe. So I'm still maintaining my relative. So audio books or books, they're in the same category in my definition, but reading or listening to a book for during a period of one year. So I have managed to maintain at least 25 books a year for the last six years. So that's, I   Dan  26:25 guess what? Guess what, why do you think you've done that? Big? Did you find the process to be very painful during these past few years?   Pouya LJ  26:32 Oh, no, I actually really enjoy. So I think a couple years ago or so, it was I was actually sure that I was like, You know what, I'm not gonna get through the 25. So I had to cram two books at the end of the year, which was, which was what you're saying those days that are discipline has to come in? Or you know, you really don't want to lose that streak, I guess.   Dan  26:49 But you use your discipline at the time, because you will never enjoy anything, every single day. Because we're humans, our hormones, our bodies changing all the time.   Pouya LJ  27:00 Absolutely, exactly. But but the task itself, generally speaking is joyful for me. Like reading books in general. But yeah, so so that that would be one thing was meaningful. I mean, I'm not counting brushing my teeth, I guess.   Dan  27:14 How do you reward yourself? By the way? Anybody, like finish these books? Like how do you reward yourself by that? Like, do you share, for example, some ideas about that book with your friends? Or do you put it out on your stories? Like, how do you write? Yeah,   Pouya LJ  27:26 I think I did. I think I do it a couple of different ways. Despite is not necessarily consistent. Sometimes I share a review, or a short article on on my website or Instagram, social media in general. Sometimes that's the case sometimes. So I definitely do check them off on Goodreads. I don't know if you're familiar that website. But   Dan  27:47 yes, yes. You're a fan of that when Actually, yeah,   Pouya LJ  27:50 yeah. So I always, well, not regularly, but after a few weeks, a few months or so especially at the end of the year, I tend to update that often. Now, again, I don't put every single book that I read there. But that gives me a sense of purpose, I think, in a way,   Dan  28:07 and a sense of progress. That's why progress,   Pouya LJ  28:08 right? You check   Dan  28:10 it off on basically, you know, Goodreads, and what I do is like I literally give myself a trophy. And at the end of the month or a year, you have a list that is getting bigger. You see, these are all gamification concepts. So one of the first sports I've ever had in business was gamification. And this was way back before identification was nowadays gamification is using every single application you can imagine. But when I first learned this, this was about 910 years ago, nobody even knew what the implication meant. So this is exactly what you're doing that sense of progress, every little check every little things, your number getting bigger. All of these things are reinforcements. And these aren't secrets that people can use to become literally hooked on that subject or activity. And if we do it, we have a sense of, you know, pleasure. And that pleasure ultimately creates the desire to consistency is to do the exact opposite of what most people do. Most people set a goal that is difficult. They imagined to be hard and difficult. They use their discipline to begin the process. They get demotivated and they leave it the opposite it should be done and that you should first find a way to get hooked on the process. And that process involves linking a lot of positive emotions. Now I'm talking to right now I'm using a bit of NLP concept here and call this that anchoring, or basically emotional conditioning. Now you don't have to be an expert, but you in a simple term, you literally get yourself to enjoy the process. And once you do, then you have to use your discipline occasionally, instead of regularly and that basically is possible because every one of us can actually get us to do one more day of this, you know, task, but if you don't do it every single day, no one's gonna have the motivation. It's designed to avoid pain. Yes.   Pouya LJ  29:57 Having said all of that, I have to preface this then I'm not actually so good at being consistent in general. So I think Don't take my advice   Dan  30:07 with you right now, this is not your problem, right? The problem of 99.9% of the population. I mean, with all due respect, consistency is not somebody can find in most people at the very beginning, it's quite normal. This is something that takes a lot. It's kind of like becoming a kung fu master or something, right? Or getting used to being punched in the I don't know, in the belly and say, Oh, you have no problem, right? So it's kind of like that. And but in reality, you should never ever bash yourself or anybody that you know, who has a problem with, you know, lack of consistency, because nobody is supposed to do that. I told you, we are not by nature designed for consistency. Unfortunately, our very evolutionary programming is designed to make us unhappy, unfulfilled, and live a very short life and die at the age of 25. This is our genetic, original evolutionary programming, just like animals do. Right? So in that case, we are no different in any way from animals, which is why to have fulfillments. And to have patents and to achieve big goals, we have to rise above that, which means we pretty much have to go against the nature or as I do hack nature. gamification is a great example of hacking. It's like a life hack that we use to temper with our very nature as a species, which is why we all need to work even I myself, I would I still have a long way to go in terms of consistent my others of my life. And for that reason, it's like a never ending journey, you're never there completely, you're always getting better. And we all have to work on ourselves consistency. And it takes a tremendous amount of effort. But it is totally worth it. If we know how. And if we put in the effort, then it'll definitely change our destiny.   Pouya LJ  31:50 Absolutely, I think I think it actually does in those short bursts, that I did have consistency or discharge areas such as reading a book, I think I can definitely attest to that. We're shortly coming to the end of the show. So is there anything that we missed out on that you want to talk to talk about or summarize?   Dan  32:07 Well, first of all, it was a great show, I really loved it, we talked about the importance of consistency and why we have been consistent. And then we describe why most of us and by most of them, like really, most of us have problem with this. And no one in this world. If you are a human being if you have a human chromosome, you are not, you're not supposed to be consistent. By nature, no one is consistent. So to become consistent, you have to actually work on yours. This is called personal development. And you don't have to make it so hard. We said the key to consistency is not discipline. People say like, Oh, you gotta be disciplined. Oh, the problem is your brain is designed to seek pleasure and avoid pain. That is why you always want to see what is that notification on your app, you always want to check the latest story on your friend on Instagram. These things are not does that you're just like, okay, I should be in touch with my friends. Oh, discipline opened Instagram. It's not like this, you do it because you like it. The key because it's an all others of life is the exact same thing. You have to find a way to get hooked on the process, and to use the same methods of reinforcement to get yourself enjoying the process, which is why I believe that in all areas of life, if you want to get consistent, here's the question you have to ask yourself, How can I make this process as fun as possible? And how can I reward myself, every time I stay consistent, both are important. If you do not reward for example, if you go to a circus, you see that anytime these animals do a certain jump, or go through a certain hoop, immediately, the guy there rewards him with some sort of food or whatever it is. And guess what happens if that person stops rewarding them? Well, someone's going to be a Tigers lunch very soon. This is the story that we have to go through. So you need to learn to reward. Make the process fun, number one, number two, reward yourself for staying consistent. Tell everybody that you're consistent. Go to your coach and say, coach, I've been at the gym for two months. And yeah, man, you're the best you say you bet your ass and the best. And this process is going to give you that. So it's called an example of social, basically rewards. But please do know that if you want to rely solely on social rewards, you're not going to stay consistent. So you have to create personal rewards. One example I gave you guys was doing seven days of exercise in a row without breaking a single of these streets equals to pizza on the weekend. That's one of the things I do for myself and I love pizza, especially with chicken. I love it. But the point is this, you got to create that level of consistency. And once you get hooked once you get rewarded, you do not need discipline every single day but trust me even if you love something, if maybe yes You had a very bad fight with your girlfriend. Of course, the next day, you don't have dessert for anything, let alone doing your Mandarin studies. So what you instead now it's time for discipline, but you'll be using the discipline muscle irregularly, which means you're literally your ego depletion will not get in the way. Because just like you know, using muscle make suit makes your muscles tired, using your discipline will make your ego depletion occur. And that ultimately makes it much harder. However, if you're doing what you love, most of the time, during those days where you're enjoying Li during the process, your discipline muscle is actually recovering and resting. So on those days when you had a terrible night, or you missed your sleep, or you heard a bad news, or you're hurt that you're I don't know, you cannot get the vaccine, even though you're 70 something years old. During those days, you still can use your muscle of discipline because it's been recovering throughout the process.   Pouya LJ  35:54 Amazing. That's just I think that's a good place to end. Thanks. As always joining,   Dan  36:00 buddy. Very nice. Glad to be here.   Pouya LJ  36:02 Thank you everybody for joining us. Hope you stay consistent. Also consistent in leaving comments. That would be nice for our shows. I mean and until later episode. Have a good one, everybody.

The world is changing rapidly and with it so should we which is why in this episode Daniel discuses the three most important skills that prove essential to prepare us for the world of tomorrow! 

In this episode Daniel will offer a brief breakdown of the book the WIERDest people in the world that stands for Western, Industrialized, Educated, Rich, and Democratic and uses his international experience to contrast eastern and western cultures. 

One of the best tools in the arsenal of success is your ability to regularly check the progress you are making towards your goals  and in this episode you will learn why what gets measured gets done. 

As we get closer to the end of the pandemic many of us are wondering how will our lives change after the pandemic and whether we will experience some permanent changes once life goes back to normal. In this episode, we will discuss this very issue and offer our prognosis for the situation.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript...----more----     SUMMARY KEYWORDS pandemic, life, emission, crisis, problem, people, vaccines, literally, world, technology, months, future, article, ready, managed, major, earthquake, living, fact, hope SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, and welcome back to yet another episode of The BTP podcast joined with Daniel Mulligan as always, how's it going, buddy?   Dan  00:17 What a man, buddy, glad to be here with you. Life is great. We're hearing a lot of good news from around the world. I mean, England was the first country to reopen up the first western country to open up, basically, and we're hearing some pretty good news. And based on what we've heard so far of global travel, as we restore, and the level of optimism going up all across the building, so the place that you know, that were hit the hardest, including Europe, which now there's a lot of, you know, sign of hope, basically. And the US, obviously, will be out of this mess. And in a couple, perhaps, three, four months. So that'll be a great news generally couldn't be happier and more excited about the future, the summer is coming. Last one, not the best summer of all, but this one probably going to be a lot better. So the hope is rising. And we are extremely hopeful for the future, basically. And I couldn't be any more grateful about how we have managed to, you know, come along so far. And hopefully things are getting much better, haven't you, man, I heard some stuff about Canada, you guys are probably hopefully going forward a little bit slower than many other development development societies. But still, you guys are making progress too, I guess. Right.   Pouya LJ  01:24 Yeah, it's a it's a bit of a problem with having vaccines in hand to be able to vaccinate people. It's not it's not a it's getting better. But it has been slow. So that's the that's the major hurdle, I suppose. Here in Canada. But yeah, it's it's coming along. Slowly. But surely. Now. Yeah. So I was talking about on this subject we were going to talk about for today's topic, we're going to talk about what are the things we should be doing to prepare because it's going to be a different life the same, the same way we have developed ourselves to adapt to the news situation of dealing with the pandemic, we're going towards the world towards a world, which it's not necessarily the same as before, but it's going to have elements as before, and maybe some argument and an upgrade at once. So what are the things that an individual should do, that may not be even thinking about that should prepare themselves help prepare themselves for a future post pandemic? Hopefully, that is prosperous. And   Dan  02:29 exactly, man, that's exactly what we're hoping for. And I guess right now, we have somehow gotten used to form that new norm is not something that can be strong, especially when it comes to social kind. However, the pandemic did have a lot of positive sides too. I mean, like, we've seen some terms of remote work, which has traffic and emission. Ever honest with you, I was recently finishing my vehicle pulled up put a review soon on social media called you know, how to prevent another plane Oh, and other climate crisis. And in reality speaking, I was really surprised, I thought, I feel like you know, this pandemic really helped the environments and reduce the emission, but base the first that I found in the book, at the impact of the pandemic, on the environment, it was minimal, it was less than 3% emission that was reduced overall, which showed that the majority of the emission in the world has not that much to do with moving around and a you know, complete lockdown can't necessarily reduce the emission that much was for me, I feel like you know, what, there was this conspiracy theory, these guys as well stop moving around, so we can reduce the the emission but in reality, the pandemic itself did reduce the entire global emission by less than 3%, which wasn't even you know that much. So this was not one of them. However, the pandemic definitely did teach us a lot of great lessons. Well, mainly, remote work is indeed possible. And many employees could be as efficient working at home, as opposed to just you know, going to the office, and I'm pretty sure that this is gonna be one of those hybrid things where we'll be having a future where companies are going to offer more such hybrid approach to working that is, I don't know, let's say half the week we'll be working at home, the other half of the office and so on, this is definitely going to be a great thing, but I'm pretty sure this pandemic is gonna make some major changes in the near future. And this is going to be the beginning of a new approach towards life. However, we've had all these things for socialists and they'll and wearing masks. This also happened with a flu pandemic. And like this, they tend to live in the present moment most of the time, and kind of like, as we've been somehow struck by some sort of natural disaster being a major hurricane being a storm. After an earthquake, if you've seen these families who have suffered from hurricanes, especially in the coastal areas, or those who have served from earthquake, the first few, let's say days or weeks or months after the event, they're strongly involved with it, then after a while, they forget that there was a patent, basically, a tornado or an earthquake. And the same thing, of course, will happen with a pandemic. Yes, it is true that this has already caused a lot of change the way we live our lives, but then again, human nature and look at their history and knowing that this was not by any means the first plague anybody ever had to deal with looking at things will tell us that this is just one of those major events that happened, and people will just go back living the way they want it to. So I don't think that dependent per se, make a dramatic shift in the way we live our lives. The rest of our you know, life, because this is not the first pandemic. And unfortunately, by that, by the way, it looks probably won't be the last either. And looking at the history tells us that many societies who thought that this was the end of it all, and that this one pandemic, or this one World War, or this one, tsunami is the end of it all, probably, this is not going to be the case, because I've seen this happening over and over again. So people probably about when who declares they spend it because over space, as you probably know, people are in this momentum of oh my gosh, I still got to do this. So it will take approximately three weeks to about a month or two for most people to get used to a new situation, which means I can assure you now, by this time, this is declared over by nearly a show, almost in less than perhaps a month, maybe two, most people are back to living their lives probably very differently. And if you feel like this is going to change, I don't know social context, you are completely mistaken. Because in reality, people are now going to overdo most of those things that used to be forbidden. Obviously, it's human nature, you want to somehow go for it and knock ourselves out basically, right. So for that reason, I see no change the way we you know, do and socialize at all, what I might see is the exact opposite, we'll see a major surge and the increase in terms of these activities that will occur. However, politically, economically and professionally, we're going to be seeing some changes. The first you know is going to be the airlines, I mean, are these guys going to be actually change their entire plan of traveling, we are definitely going to see some increase in many goods and services that are related to tourism, traveling and so on. So all of these things are going to play a role. So even the trend will be more in demand, the price will also be much higher. The same thing applies to hotels, and so many other industries that were hit hard during the pandemic. But more importantly, we have to look at the political changes in this system, we've seen a major political failure. And I really loved the last article by noble Hurry, who actually mentioned this in detail in his latest article that he posted. I wish I could this pandemic was more a political failure than any other type of failure. So we're gonna see some major changes, I hope by governments to learn from this experience and prepare themselves for the next outbreak. But in reality, I don't think that this is going to be like one of those things that will change life forever. Because we have seen plagues and pandemics and outbreaks repeatedly throughout, you know, human history, we've seen that life simply moves on and everything goes back to normal afterwards. And that's what I personally would like to thank. But then again, there's always going to be a factor factor that how we can take advantage of this and how we can actually get ready for the next outbreak. But I'm pretty sure that most of us are now going to be ready for the next pandemic a lot more than we used to. But still, it's not backed up by governmental support, then that simply will be all in vain.   Pouya LJ  08:55 That's absolutely correct. And I have to read I haven't read the latest article by Yuval Noah Harare, I didn't know there is one. So I got you got me interested there.   Dan  09:06 You can check it out. It's pretty good. Actually, it's a free article. And is he published it on a multi multiple journals. And it fully explains because he's a historian. He's seen these things throughout history a lot. So he describes the fact and it's a very wonderful article proventil all of our listeners to actually check this article out.   Pouya LJ  09:25 Fascinating. Yeah, I will certainly do that myself. And we'll link to that in the comment in the comment section at the end of the comment section but the description section of the episode. Okay, so very, so we're moving forward. We're moving past has has Well, besides the obvious, I suppose, has there any been any lessons for you personally, or for other people that you know of, that you would want to take from this pandemic moving forward changing so maybe not completely going back to normal, but adding to what's going on? Because as you know, you, we are meeting you, and a lot of others are very interested if there is hardship, if there's progress past it. It's useful, right? So we want to make use of it that says, What are the things that you think we can take from this pandemic? And that not from the for sure, there is a governmental aspect in preparation for the future pandemics, but on more of a personal level, perhaps, or individual level?   Dan  10:26 Very well. And I agree with you completely. I think this pandemic did teach us a lot of great lessons. I think that the psychological damage of this pandemic was far more than its impact on the lives of people around the world. We've had, of course, unfortunately, a number of deaths that were beyond what most modern societies could actually have. Because we have advanced medicine and having to deal with all these deaths, as we know in the year 2020, and 2021. It just makes no sense. We are at such a level of development in terms of medicine. However, again, in this article, Harare talks about this. And he says that this plague and pandemic, given that we think it was the worst thing that ever happened, because most of us have no experience of a major pandemic in, you know, modern history. So the last one goes back to 1980s, way before any of these, you know, technologies were there. And at that time, nobody even knew what the virus really was. I mean, they are calling a flu, but there have has been no real evidence of exactly what the virus was because the medical technology did not actually do anything about it. But this time around, not only we could exactly identify the virus know exactly what are the problems? What's the antibody like and have it generally show that our advancement technology has definitely helped us a lot in this regard, which is why in terms of what we did with a pandemic wrong, most of it actually goes back to a policy and not technology. For that reason, I don't think that this pandemic necessarily was poorly handled from the medical sector. Because I mean, the idea of just having a vaccine ready for mass distribution less than a year is just, you know, it's the first time It's never happened before, for the first time in history. And a novel unknown virus happens. And a year later, we have the vaccine, multiple manufacturers have worked on it. And boom, it's like literally going to Macy's and Walmart, you get like, you know, you get like all the flavors to get like the different flavors of the vaccines, if you will. So that was like really incredible, personally, to see how much we've made progress that we literally have now options. I mean, in certain countries. I mean, right now you're in Canada, you literally can pick up, it's just like buying your tariffs from God Damn, it's like buying it. I don't know, internet provider. So you can see like, well, you got Johnson and Johnson here. And then we got AstraZeneca here. And then we got, for example of Pfizer here. And then we got Sputnik v here. So literally, that not only we did not fall behind, we actually made so many different vaccines available in less than a year. And that was just incredible. So we have to Hale and admire our medical progress. This is just quite unprecedented. So that's the good side of it. But obviously, in terms of policy, as a whole from store, we've seen as always how politicians disappoint. And we've we saw how this was handled. Probably I as of now, especially from the year 2020. I cannot think of a single nation that handled this pandemic. Well, politically Not a single one. I mean, if you think of any single country, they could have done things much better, but they didn't. Because the world worldwide, none of us were ready. You're now in Canada, we know that the Kenyan government is you know very well, in most cases. But even the Kenyan government failed in this regard. Because Sure, sindhya happened during the Trump administration, the same thing happened to Europe. We thought Germany was way ahead. And now look at Germany. Dude, these guys have been locked down since November. Are you freaking kidding me? So this is what we've realized that technology won't solve most prompts, if politics is in the way and fortunately, this is going to teach all of us in the future to be prepared for an individual level. But from my perspective, I think that every basically difficulty is at the same time an opportunity. And we saw the fact that this pandemic could somehow be productive for some people, yes, many lost their jobs. Unfortunately, you know, the psychological tool was extremely heavy, particularly among the the extroverted population. So it was very difficult it still is because we're not adequate yet. But at the same time, it taught us that technology can help us I mean, the very fact that we use, you know, Internet technology to have our lives, you know, moving forward, that was just incredible, because if you look at the history, this was not the case. I mean, in the past when a flu pandemic occurred, this had to create the need for another world war two compensate for that, you know, economic damage, because at that time, there was no such thing as zoom. So if you shut down the city, you also close and shut down the economy. But we saw that During this time, we actually managed to keep the economy's running Despite all these limitations, so we should look at the positive side as well. And on a personal level, as you pointed out yourself, we also really, yeah, man, I mean, it's possible to go through difficult moments of, you know, human history and still come out stronger and able to, you know, survive and thrive during this pandemic. I mean, the same pandemic made life perhaps easier for certain people as well. I mean, like, they could simply I mean, I just talked to one of my friends who were just today, we had one of our, you know, group sessions, basically. And he's like, dude, I just love this man. And I don't have to, I think from now on, I only work online and I don't, I can just work in my underwear, man is pretty cool. I love to work in my underwear, man is so much more comfy. So for that reason, we are going to see a major shift towards renewable energy, green energy using that technology, instead of just you know, reducing carbon emission, these are all going to be some of the good facts that will be left after the pennant is over. However, from my point of view, the biggest, you know, reminder of this pennant pandemic for us is that our politicians doesn't matter where you are living right now, you could be living in one of the world's most developed society, and who live in one of the world's Least Developed societies. And you'll see that in the end, it doesn't matter how much technology is available to if policies are not in place to help you to protect you, then we'll see the disaster that we saw, especially early part pandemic, most countries, so I hope that we as we leave this pandemic behind, you know, around the world, we develop awareness regarding policy, and we will prepare ourselves for these such events, because they might happen again, I mean, that's just, you know, part of life. So if we get ready to deal with that in the future will will then hopefully, we will somehow not repeat the same mistakes that we made during this pandemic. And on a very personal level. Obviously, if you have gone through the panic so far, you can look back and say, you know, what, I just went through 12 months of almost everything bad that could happen to human human being right. So you got you got loneliness, you got lack of a social life, you got a lack of entertainment, you got lack of human contact. So if you're right now listening to us, you have, you know, and you've done something with your time during this past 12 months, then congratulations, you're really are a superwoman, or a Superman, because it says, You should literally pat yourself on the back, like, dude, I just went through 12 months of the pandemic, and I'm still here. And you should literally pat yourself on the back and know that you have accomplished something wonderful. Maybe some of your friends right now are not with you because they committed suicide, because they lost hope, because they just stopped, you know, following their goals. And they instead started drinking heavily, right? So for those of us who managed to go through this penalty, the least damage possible, I mean, everybody's going to get damaged in this situation. There's no doubt about it, but some of us got damaged less. And I believe that is exactly what matters for us. Because if you are one of those who got damaged less, and he actually managed to accomplish something, perhaps you focus more on doing your term papers before the end of the goddamn semester for the first time in your whole life. Or perhaps you manage to work consistently on your projects. And to delay, maybe maybe be more on time, because now everything is online, so you don't have to be late and you can blame the traffic. So there were a lot of opportunities for us to go through this pandemic, knowing that it is possible for us to simply work hard and to get the results. So you can look back at this and say, You know what, I did something big here, man I, I have, it's like for our generations, you know, the millennials. For us. It's like our grandparents, or grand grandparents who went through the World War experience, we are facing with something that is actually technically and logistically more significant than a World War, because during a World War, there are many nations that are just simply just neutral, and you can live their normal. So what we saw in the pandemic, we, our generation, we should literally be proud of this because most of us youngsters especially, we went through something that most of our grandparents couldn't even dream of going through. But we did it and that requires recognition. And we have to know that if we could do this, if we could go through such a hell called the COVID pandemic, we can do almost anything else. Because if you feel like this was the last crisis of your life, I got a bad, you know, bad news for you. And the fact of the matter is that life is a series of problems, like the ocean waves, and they are but occasionally interrupted, not by a peaceful sea, but by tornadoes. So life basically is problem, problem, problem, problem, problem, problem, crisis, problem, problem, problem, problem, problem, problem crisis. So this is the wave of life like the wave of the ocean, right? And we will go through with this throughout our lives, and most of us we are on the second half of that crisis, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be the last crisis. In our lives, socially, politically, or even personally, and knowing that we could go through this crisis gives us the confidence to know that we can go through any other prices. And the fact that we've managed to, you know, somehow hold on to it and not give up like all those who unfortunately committed suicide or, you know, gave into drug abuse or heavy drinking. Those of us who didn't do that, we know that we are ready for the next wave. And guess what's going to be the next wave once we finish the pandemic? problem, problem, problem, problem prices, problem, problem, problem, problem, crisis. So you just went through one crisis, hopefully, we're gonna finish this one again in next eight months, if you are living in the Western world, or in the next 14 months if you're living in the developing world, but ultimately, we will get out of this. And once we do we have the confident belief in ourselves that yes, we did it. We went through this, we survived and thrived. And we are ready for what? That's right. problem. Problem. problem. Problem. problem. Problem price. Oh, yeah.   Pouya LJ  20:59 All right. Okay, so that sounded optimistic. I want to say, All right, I'm just kidding.   Dan  21:05 This is optimistic, because this is the life and the whole point of life is to go through problems, problems, problems, problems, problems. Yes. And to grow from it. That's the right attitude. The whole point of life is to grow from all these experiences. And once you realize that it is your job to solve problems. I mean, name one person who has no problem or crisis, oh, I can think of one, that person is dead. So when you are dead, you got no problems, you got no crisis, right? So life is dealing with problems. And optimism is knowing that despite all these problems and crises, you can deal with it, that the future is always going to be brighter than the past. And that no matter how tough things gets, whether a pandemic a world war or major, you know, technological disruption that will make you perhaps render you obsolete in the workforce, you know, that you are capable of dealing with whatever life throws at you. That is optimism, optimism is not denying the presence of problems or crises. There's like, no, there's no bendemeer. Once you deny that, you're not an optimist, you're an idiot. But once you are now, to say, yes, there are problems. Yes, there are crises. No, the last places, but I am more than capable of dealing with whatever life throws at me, I'm always greater than all the changes that we know will be in front of me. And I have the greater bad, I just went emic, which means for whatever, crash, I will be damned ready.   Pouya LJ  22:39 So that's, that's really good to hear. Thanks, Dan. It's I think it's a was a very productive episode we have today. But before we close, whether any, anything that we missed out that you want us to talk about or summarize,   Dan  22:55 or Well, first of all, the topic very much great face on your cheeks, but also discussed the life after the pandemic. Fortunately, the news is generally positive world wide. In some nations, things are much better than the others, obviously, because I mean, I mean, that's called modern equality, obviously. But as a whole, the world will eventually get out of this pandemic. And most of the predictions marked q4 of 2021. And we will hopefully see that happening in most countries around the world by then. And we discussed how we'll change for getting out of the pandemic. And I said that this pandemic wasn't the you know, the first, nor probably the last. So it's not going to dramatically change life forever, like nothing really does. And we discuss the fact that those of us went through serious difficult, will be able to handle whatever life throws at us with the right attitude, we also find what it means to be an optimist. an optimist is not somebody who denies problems or crisis, nor someone who thinks that his or her current problems the last life is, as we discussed a series of problems only interrupted occasionally by crisis, which means we need to understand this, prepare ourselves for it, and develop a belief and faith in ourselves and know that the future was going to be brighter, because we have just proven to ourselves that we can go through an entire year of complete restriction where life comes to a halt. But hope still continues. And that's exactly we did. And it's going to hopefully teach us in the future to be able to work on ourselves. And if we could go through the COVID pandemic survive and thrive through it, we can do anything.   Pouya LJ  24:33 Perfect. That's very good to hear. That's very positive, I think. Yeah, despite that, hints that might suggest that there's negativity. It's not ultimately Oh, yeah, it's very optimistic. Yeah. My point of view. Again, thanks. As always, Dan, for joining us. My pleasure. And thank you everyone for listening and tuning in and until a later episode, have a good one.

Financial literacy is the main difference between those who have to constantly worry about money and those who don’t. In this episode you will learn how financially literate people think about money differently than the rest of us.

It is said all things in moderation and moderation in all things and in this episode Daniel discusses why it is important to avoid an extreme path and stick to a moderate one in all personal and professional areas of life. 

Following the 2020 election which marked the dawn of Biden's presidency, the world saw a turning point in history as the nationalist policies of the previous administration were replaced by a globalist one. In this episode of the Beyond the Present podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss what the Biden presidency means not only for the US but also for the rest of the world   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS trump, president biden, biden, world, vaccines, administration, russia, approach, earthquake, president biden's, pandemic, run, nations, policies, ministration, major, talking, vaccinated, obama, highly SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:10 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of The BGP podcast. I'm here, as always with Danny Mulligan, how's it going, buddy?   Dan  00:18 What's the man buddy, glad to be here with you pretty happy and excited to be here for you to another let's talk edition of Beyond the present podcast, life is great we are gradually approaching this summer, which as many know is thought to be our first get away from all of this madness called the COVID pandemic. So pretty happy and excited, because as you probably know, I am the kind of person who is pretty much always on the move. And having seen our lifestyles change over the past year or so has obviously made me even more hopeful about what's about to occur in the near future. So life is pretty good. on all fronts, we're happy about the pace at which most of the world is being vaccinated. Although quite frankly, I'm a little bit disappointed by the European Union, things are much better. I mean, the US started off his way back. But after President Biden took, took the office, fortunately, things have gotten a lot better. And now we are hearing that, hopefully, by July, the US will be pretty much fully vaccinated. The stories are also pretty good in many other countries, let's say and, for example, in Russia, I heard they're gonna open up pretty soon, because as you're filming, I was pretty active there. Middle East is doing pretty well so far, apart from a few countries. And the only problem that I have right now is the pace, the slow pace of which Europe is actually moving forward. And it's quite ironic, because I remember Germany was thought to be one of the best countries in the world in terms of the way they handled the pandemic. And that was one of the least efficient, I have no idea why and how it all changed. But generally speaking, you're probably going to be a little bit behind. But for now, the world as a whole is moving forward. I don't know about how things are in Canada, by the way. So you're telling me how things are? And when you guys yeah, that predict things to go back to normal?   Pouya LJ  02:02 Yeah, no, unfortunately, it's not going that well here either. Maybe similar to European Union, I'm not too sure how they are doing but maybe even worse, because the problem is Canada does not have production of vaccines within its country. So it has to get all others. And given what it is it's been proving difficult. And also not not just politically difficult, but also very transportation, apparently, of this vaccine is very, very difficult because of this, especially,   Dan  02:27 you know, the western vaccines. Yes, sir.   Pouya LJ  02:31 Yes. Yeah. Exactly. My maternal Yeah.   Dan  02:33 Now, what is the current statistics in Canada, by the way, in terms of those who've been already vaccinated? The numbers? I mean, is it actually going down? Or is it still going up?   Pouya LJ  02:45 Like numbers,   Dan  02:46 so it's infectious? Yes, of course, yes. Oh, no, infections   Pouya LJ  02:49 are good, it they're not that bad. They're the combination of social distancing, some restrictions, and the vaccines are helping a bit so that the infections, at least within Ontario, are not really that bad. They're like, less than 1000 per day, for your lifestyle, generally, because   Dan  03:06 now gradually, we're seeing, you know, places getting opened, and people are gradually going back to your regular life, are you guys still under a lockdown or life is kind of back to normal.   Pouya LJ  03:17 So it's not a lockdown right now in Toronto, or wrestle Ontario. But there, they have created this tearing system that depending on the statistics, they're gonna put it in different color coded. So, quote, unquote, so what does that mean is that if numbers go higher, they have certain sort of, like 20% capacity 50% capacity indoors outdoors, like these kinds of restrictions vary depending on the numbers I have, across population. So about but generally speaking, for me personally, it didn't create a huge difference. But But I'm thinking for the months to come go into summer, similar to last year, when it was more outdoor activities started, did but because of the nature of this virus itself, probably things going to open up even regardless of the vaccine, and hopefully, the vaccine if then going back to the fall on the other end of the summer, which will also hopefully not be a problem. But we will see. Yeah,   Dan  04:24 I see. Well, personally, I have already planned all my trips, I am not going to spend basically the next summer like the last one, I do want to hit a couple of countries. So definitely, we're going to get started regardless. But let's hope that this thing is going to get better, although we're all hopeful. And we know that this year is going to make it a lot better. Although then again, the pace at which the vaccine is being basically done in most countries, unfortunately, outside of those nations where the manufacturers right now, in terms of the way nations have handled this, so far some of the best nations in terms of payment. wish they were actually vaccinating is indeed, Russia, United States because these two nations have their own vaccines manufacturing in China is also quite close. All of these guys beat the pandemic long ago without even having the vaccines. But generally, when you look at the nations that are manufacturing their own vaccines, the United States, Russia and China, you're sure that they are way ahead of the rest of the world who need to actually import those vaccines.   Pouya LJ  05:24 Yeah, absolutely. That's true. And that that says a lot. I guess there's a there's an inherent value in being able to produce the stuff that you need, especially especially the essential ones, you know, like, the PPS, I don't know, the masks and whatnot, and obviously, vaccines, drugs and stuff. Because Yeah, when the world is good and dandy, everybody's happy to help everybody. But when the cover and push comes to shove, you know, you always go first. Right? So that's that's part of it. Exactly. Anyway,   Dan  05:54 so true.   Pouya LJ  05:55 Right. I actually our topic is not too far from this subject. And it's not the same. So we're we're talking about, we're, how many months like almost three months, two and a half past Biden's inauguration and the new administration in the United States. That's right, as I'm correct to a two and a half,   Dan  06:15 three months, of course, your most jagriti January 23.   Pouya LJ  06:18 So the first so two and a half. That's   Dan  06:20 right. But in terms of the election, yes, actually, more than that, but yeah, right.   Pouya LJ  06:24 Yeah. But since he took office, and well, obviously, with any new administration, comes new, you know, policies within the country and foreign, which is going to affect obviously, the entire world as it did when we move from Obama to Trump. And, and it was a drastic one, and I suppose this one could have, we could have anticipated that it would have drastic, you know, effects on the entire   Dan  06:53 world.   Pouya LJ  06:54 Now, my question is, from what you have observed that this is the topic today, obviously, my question is, from what you have observed from the past couple of months or so, where do you see this administration going? And what the priorities are? And how does that affect the our other countries   Dan  07:12 in the world? Very good question. First of all, we should consider the fact that buyten does not equal Obama, that's a huge misconception that is nowadays quite common. Even from the very beginning people fall Okay, Biden's Obama to point out, no, President Biden does not have the exact same approach towards leadership, as President Obama did, because while they are from the same party, and while they even have worked together in the same administration, President Biden is thought to be a middle left, not a far left. And that, of course, is going to lead to a variety of different approaches, that he will can, you know, control and manage the country is being a left or a democrat does not necessarily mean that you will all follow the same guidelines, or the same approach towards policies in all years of basically governance. Rather, what it really entails is that you have the same background and the same goals. And yet, so for that reason, the first issue that we have to take into consideration is the fact that Mr. Biden is not going to leave the nation exactly the way President Obama because the times basically have changed. And that requires a new approach towards all forms of strategy, the world in which President Obama, let the you know, the United States and the world was somehow very different than what we are seeing today. And especially after what Trump did, a lot of the US alliances have now been severely damaged. So along with us reputation as well, to some degree to some degree, and that, of course, is going to cause further problems and complications. But from my point of view, if you want to look at President Biden's approach, think of someone who is definitely not a Republican, but is also not a far left far Democrat. So for that reason, you can guess someone who is tough, but not crazy, like Republicans, but at the same time, not necessarily all left and all Okay, no problem, we're gonna make deals with everybody, no problem whatsoever. So because of that, we can see the US keeping certain approaches that were initiated by the Trump administration in place while adding new stuff. So these are not going to be basically diametrically opposite, rather, a there's gonna be some major differences in the way the policy is there. Because obviously, you have like republicans versus Democrats. But in terms of the actual direction, it's not going to be like a complete opposite. So many initiatives, like, you know, made in America, for example, are going to continue whether it's buying or Trump because that's part of the you know, the the system. So, since today, we're talking mainly about the international community, and how the Biden presidency affects the international media. Of course, there's going to be a lot of differences. Now. If you probably follow the news. You basically have heard about Trump making an appearance recently and a republican You mentioned saying, did you guys miss it? Oh, I'm sure you did. So for that reason, we can imagine right now what's happening in that people are a little bit concerned whether Trump is going to actually come back and run again, and so on. But right now many of those initiatives are still in place. And I'm not going to be changed that. However, what we can see again, to quote Trump himself, he said, in a simple one month, we went from America first America last. So what what is really actually means is, is that America is back in the global stage. So what the previous administration wanted to have for the world was to make policies solely in a way that benefits especially those who are on the Republican side, so those who are not concerned about the long term us influence. But now the US, of course, would like to take things back in a way that it was during the Obama ministration. So revitalizing the US alliances, the European Union, for example, empowering NATO, returning and rejoining the Paris Agreement, and more importantly, healing a lot of the wounded relationships, and also taking a certain relationships that were favorite for Trump, like those of Saudi Arabia, and you know, a little bit differently to see if things are necessarily reliable in that regard or not. And we're now seeing things like stopping the sales of weapons and sleep aircrafts to Saudi Arabia. So basically, when it comes to foreign policy, we're going to see some dramatic changes by the Biden inspiration. But that does not mean everything's going to change overnight. Because as you probably know, in the world of international politics, there is no such thing as rapid change, that cannot basically lead to some sort of conflict. For that reason, all the changes that will occur in the administration will be slow lunch, we cannot undo the damage of four years of complete, basically, ignorance when it comes to foreign policy, in over I don't know, a couple of months. So what we can predict from the states in the near future is to follow on the same path as that of Obama, but with very different unique strategies. So the Paris Agreement was signed on the first day of basically office. But that doesn't mean that those regulations will necessarily go in place immediately. On day one, they are going to require a lot of time. The other force major approach was about the trade agreements, United States and Canada, and Mexico, NAFTA. And that is, of course, right now revitalize as well. So all of these rejoin these agreements, that doesn't mean that the world has already changed, it simply means we are on the path towards recovery from all the damage done. Now, the other key issues for the Biden ministration, when it comes to foreign policy, is dealing with the threat of Russia, as you probably know, Russia is AB bait for the Democratic basically, side is thought to be the most important and serious threat. So we're gonna have to see how the United States deals with Russia, but mainly through targeted, basically sanctions, not for the economy as a whole, but target individuals to make sure that, you know, the economy does not suffer so much. And that's the major difference between sanctioning strategies of the right administration versus Trump. So when Trump wants to, for example, sanction a country, they will sanction the whole economy, which is going to affect the entire, you know, economy, a great example was Trump's leaving the nuclear deal with Iran. So that itself was a great example of how they actually crushed the old economy. Now, what President Biden right now is doing with Russia, is trying to actually maintain the economy stable, but target these sanctions in a way that sends a message that, you know, the United States is not going to perhaps tolerate certain Russian, you know, aggression, or saying things like, the US will never recognize Crimea as a part of Russia is one of those other examples. So you can even like recently, in one of his first two military, basically campaigns, Biden targeted certain, basically, Iran back basically bases in Syria. Now, they could have actually done some something like that in Iraq directly, but they avoided that. So what this implies is that the Biden ministration does not want serious confrontation the way Trump did. Instead, they are also not going to be like, extreme left and back office. You know what, okay, do whatever you want. I just want to talk. So they are also going to show some strength. That's the thing that got me elected because in the primaries, Biden said, I am not a real radical left, if you will. I am basically a middle left. So a lot of the his initiatives are going to involve certain strength, but not the way Trump did, of course, right. So for that reason, the first and most important impact of Biden ministration on global politics is understanding The fact that the US is willing to strengthen relationship with the allies, at the same time, they are willing to negotiate better, instead of just fighting with the adversaries basically, that the United States currently has. And as of now, when it comes to the, you know, the whole global politics, there are a few nations that are of particular concern for the states, and namely, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Syria, and to some extent, what is happening in Yemen, with Saudi Arabia, outside of that, basically, then states is also quite concerned with dealing with the threat, you know, the problems that are currently facing Europe by mainly trying to strengthen NATO, in order to go a face the threat of Russia. But at the same time, the trade agreements, a lot of which Trump imposed on certain nations should be removed the bands of let's say, tariffs, and imports, all of those, but the fact of the matter is, this is all going to take time. So we are going to be seeing a lot of changes. But if you're waiting for those changes to occur overnight, or in the first few months, the chances are, you're a little bit too hopeful about it. Because I think, you know, all these changes to really start kicking in right after the pandemic is basically many months over because by then, hopefully, the bike administration is going to actually change a lot of these policies and make sure they're actually implemented. So that is the major factor that we're currently seeing occurring.   Pouya LJ  16:29 Okay, and that was very elaborate. Now I have a couple of questions that are more, you know, fantasizing, and just daydreaming and talking about these stuff. way out. And that is, why it's not not in that romantic sense. But   Dan  16:44 I mean, we all love daydreaming, man, we all have time.   Pouya LJ  16:48 Right? So in the four years from now, do you see Trump running for presidency?   Dan  16:55 Well, actually, it was officially announced that he is interested. And he actually shows interest, although not officially declared. But the fact of the matter is, as you probably know, the Republican Party currently is putting a lot of value in Donald Trump, because of his popularity, that there simply cannot be any other candidate who can reach the same level of support, especially among the hardcore Republicans. You see, the other states of america is highly divided right now. And it is this major segregation is between the the fluid type, and the more basically, rigid type, if you will. Now, if you want to learn more about this, I remind you a great book called Prius, or pickup, which talks a lot about this major divide in the American Society among the left and the right. But the fact of the matter is that the party that represents Donald Trump has supporters primarily made of what we call their rigid type, oftentimes suburban, not highly educated, usually more concerned, basically, with general basically, and tradition and religion, and at the same time, highly suspicious of basically the outside world. Because most of these communities generally do not have a high level of trust towards the outsiders, whether it's immigrants, whether it's the foreign countries, and this is a specific mindset that is, unfortunately, quite prevalent today in American society, made primarily from a conservative background, highly religious, highly suspicious of anything that is not traditionally thought to be American, and more importantly, generally, less, basically, a suburban and a more rural, if you will, most of whom are all Trump supporters. I mean, how many times have you moved around and saw a truck driver with a Make America Great cap driving his pickup truck, I mean, that's a very, very common thing, especially in rural areas. So Donald Trump is almost like a God. He's even like, almost worshiped by a lot of these people, and thought to be some sort of Messiah who's bringing, you know, peace in order when he says, the line order, we have it all the law and order and all those things. So for that reason, I really believe that this is definitely going to make a huge difference. And for that reason, it is likely for him to run again, although having lost his access to social media could seriously impede his progress. But then again, he could run again. Now, will I say that he will run again, necessarily in near future. I don't think that that could be guaranteed as of now, however, it is very likely that he could run again, although it's not sort of going to mean that he will win again, because as you probably know, there's a great book about this, the key to the White House, basically and in this book is talk about what it really takes to change administration, while the president is an incumbent, so even if Trump runs again, he kept No matter how much his followers love him. And even if he runs again, and he tries to say, yeah, guys, I'm back for making America great again, and all those things In the end, it's almost impossible for an administration to lose its power and make it basically in between two terms. Unless there's what we call a political earthquake. This is what Professor Lichtman talked about in his book, this is a White House. So whether Trump runs people should not be concerned about who is going to run against Trump or not, because that is not a very important factor. Because if Trump runs again, but President Biden's decisions, both at home and basically internationally, will lead to basically a situation where a political earthquake is avoided. So perhaps there isn't a major economic downturn, or there is no major international conflict, let's say with the adversaries. So it all really now the ball is in Biden's courts. And it really doesn't matter who is going to run again on the Republican side. So long as President Biden avoids a political earthquake. Because for Trump, we saw major such earthquakes, I mean, his international deals and then at home that black life matters, racism, he caused a major tsunami on Earth, but a tsunami, political tsunami, right. But for those who are this is want to know more about this, check out the book, the keys to the White House, there are 13 keys, by the way. And for a, you know, a candidate to house basically an incumbent president out of the White House that requires him to win at least six of those keys and causes of earthquake. As of now, it's too early to say whether this is going to happen. But I can tell you this that the odds of President Biden with his moderate approach, neither extreme left because you know, Trump when extreme right? When you move towards any strange, the chance of any earthquake, whether it's in a relationship or in politics goes higher. But since President Biden has already declared himself to be a moderate Democrat, I highly suspect any major political earthquake to happen. And even if President Biden does have certain plans, for you know, taking some extreme left approach, I'm pretty sure just like previous Democrats, is going to be smart enough to keep those things for his second term, not the first. That's what Trump did wrong. He went all extreme. Right away, he went all in from the very beginning and that constantly election, right. So for the next election, I highly doubt that President Biden's gonna cause a political earthquake, if you will. And for that reason, it could be Trump, it could be Trump's Trump Jr. It could be Trump's grandson, it could be anybody. I hope not Ted, Ted Cruz, because I really don't like his facial hair. It's just super weird. But ultimately, it could be anyone. But if President Biden does not basically lose that momentum, there's no chance Trump can win again, even if all of his voters basically in supporters vote again, he could still lose unless Biden, so basically, this election proves that basically, Biden's gonna win again, unless Biden really mess up. So it's, it has nothing to do with Trump. If you already want to be concerned about the future America and the world, be concerned about what Biden is doing, and do not concern yourself so much with what Trump has in store. He says, oh, I'll be back. I'll be back again. That's just a bunch of you know, media because the guy loves the attention. Right. But in reality, it's not about Trump whatsoever. It's about what President Biden does, if he avoids any major political earthquake, if you will. He's got his next four years right after that.   Pouya LJ  23:40 There's a natural question, given his age, whether he would want to continue that.   Dan  23:45 Well, that's another story. People are talking a lot about that as well. Whether we the illustrations, regular habits, first female president, I personally think that us currently is not at this very stage is not ready. But hopefully in the coming years, hopefully, the US will be ready to also to have basically its first female president, because as you probably know, the US is highly divided right now. And among the traditional, basic conservative communities in the US, which are, by the way, everywhere, they do not have that approach. They are very patriarchal in nature, they don't believe that a woman could be on top of everything. It's like, very traditional old fashioned, if you will. So for that we need a little bit more time, but then again, probably there's no better time to get started, then, basically 2024 We'll see about that. But until then, we have to keep our eyes fixated on President Biden, and just watch Trump for you know, its own sense of fun. I mean, the guys are, you know, showman. He's funny. I mean, like, I can't imagine a single time I watched a speech and didn't laugh at some point because oh, yeah, entertaining man. It definitely is. I mean, the guy was a reality TV star, right. I mean, he knows how to entertain his audience, but the problem is global Politics and International. Politics is not a goddamn reality TV. We need a real president. Like President Biden, not a reality TV president like Donald Trump.   Pouya LJ  25:08 Yeah. Amen. Amen to that. All right, that was that was a great, great talk. And I think we covered a lot, because we covered more than I thought we would. So thank you for that. My pleasure. I don't know if you we left anything you want to wrap up, or we can? Well,   Dan  25:23 first of all, great topic, and I wouldn't like to wish and hope all our listeners, because we're going for a very tough time, I'd like to wish them you know, peace of mind. But please do know that a lot of the policies that Trump ministration basically had earlier was what led to the current situation. But fortunately, hope is really inside. And we can actually see some light at the end of the tunnel. But more importantly, today, we're talking about President Biden's influence globally. And we mentioned that, based on what Trump said, we've gone from America first America last. But the fact of the matter is, what has really happened is that America is now open again to the world. So this is going to make some major difference, because the states has a very special role in controlling basically, this situation all over the world because of the influence that the country has, right. And that will make us very hopeful. However, people should not think of Biden administration, as you know, miracle workers, because the world of politics is very complicated. And changes rarely occur. I mean, you can damage things very quickly as Trump did. It's kind of like in like a building, you can demolish an entire building, it took you years to make it you know, with one that nation, but you cannot build it also with one that nation right. So for that reason, while the damage that Trump administration caused on the global community was huge, and the rapid, basically, healing of the alliances, and bringing back ordered to the world is going to take a lot longer and saying we have to spend a lot more time to build and construct than it does to destroying. So for that reason, we should be hopeful and know that this change is going to take a while but in the end, hope is hopefully inside, and there is light into the tunnel.   Pouya LJ  27:08 That's great to know. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dan, for joining us as always.   Dan  27:12 My pleasure, man. Love it.   Pouya LJ  27:13 All right. Thank you all for tuning in listening in. And if you have any comments or questions, please ask us leave comments, and if not until later episode. Have a good one.

Today Pouya is speaking with Tyler Martin, Physical and Mathematical Specialist with extensive research into Mathematical modeling of COVID-19 data and String Theory.   Tyler's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tylerjamartin/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   The article discussed in the talk: NYT article on modelling paths to herd immunity in the USA   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS herd immunity, people, models, vaccination, assumptions, lockdowns, mathematical modeling, vaccinate, talking, deterministic, masks, number, means, mathematical models, strategies, politicians, frontline workers, account, restrictions, predict SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Tyler Martin   Tyler Martin  00:16 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of The BGP podcast. I'm here joined today by my good friend and colleague, Tyler Martin. He is okay. Why don't I hand him I'll hand it over to him to tell. Tell him tell you guys about himself. Hey, Tyler, how are you? Hey, I'm good. How are you?   Pouya LJ  00:36 Very good.   00:36 Thank you for having me on podcast. I've always heard your podcast. So.   Tyler Martin  00:43 Thank you for being here. It's a pleasure. to to to be talking to you. Now. Okay, so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? What do you do? What are you? What are your likes and dislikes in this? crazy world? Okay, um, a little bit about me. I'm doing physical mathematical specialist utsc with, with you, we're in a lot of the same classes. And so my dislikes COVID right now is a big dislike. Yeah, yeah. But I love physics and math. That's my go to. Yeah. No, it's great stuff. I do agree with you in that. In that sense, we share   Pouya LJ  01:26 the love of physics and math. I so I don't know if you remember, Mr. He was on the podcast A while back. Now, now we got you. And hopefully bunch of other people join in the cohort. But yeah, today, actually, we're going to talk about something very relatively timely to all the COVID stuff. And so you have done some research and studies on, you know, mathematical modeling, modeling, which I think it's I guess people are getting tired of hearing it. That is surprising, because now politicians are talking about it, right? Like, oh, yeah, these are the numbers and mathematical models based on these, we're making these decisions. Never, you could you could never get politicians to pay so much attention to science, I suppose. As we do now. So now, all of that is about the spread, mostly, that's what they were talking about. But all of that also applies to vaccination strategies, which is probably the most timely because those are the decisions that politicians and then the world leaders around the world are making decisions on, right, all of these numbers that are jumped out. So now, for the audience, we are trying today, with the help of Tyler to make sense of all of this. What are these? You know, modeling that they talk about? What What is it behind the scenes, and to simplify it to a degree basically. So why don't you Why don't you go ahead and like started us start us off with? What was the what was the starting point of your research early on? And what were your, you know, thoughts going into it? And immediately after you started reading some papers and articles.   Tyler Martin  03:10 Yeah, definitely. So first, like, you watch the news. And you see all these politicians, like you said, talking about mathematical modeling, and then you go, what is even mathematical modeling in the first place. So then you have to do a little bit of research if when it first started. First off, we haven't even done a ton of research and mathematical modeling. It only started around, like going up around 40 years ago. And recently, there's two big definitions of mathematical modeling we can use today. One is the deterministic, and the stochastic, those are big fancy words. But they pretty much mean stochastic as in random randomness. So we can capture the randomness of humans, because no one can actually predict human behavior or human psychology. deterministic is a little less complex. It just kind of puts humans as a person with no emotion, no thoughts of what they're gonna do. They're just there. And then we can judge how a disease reacts from these two different types of models.   Pouya LJ  04:22 Right. Right. And do you know, so I mean, that's a natural, we're gonna delve into what they are in a second, maybe in further depth. But do you know, what are the when people talk about these models? Is it is it mainly stochastic or deterministic? Or sometimes just sometimes that are a combination of both? What are they usually talking about? Or what are the most effective   Tyler Martin  04:46 perhaps I don't know, the most effective from my point of view from what I found is stochastic modeling is most effective, although it's more complex, meaning we have to have big Fancy computers to run all our simulations, it's more effective in actually grasping our results and accurate results. What to when you compare it to deterministic modeling? I would say, for deterministic modeling is more better for handing paper. So if you're wanting to do a model by hand and paper, like we all do in class, then that's a good way. But stochastic modeling is definitely the way to go. When you have the time. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  05:30 Right. So so the deterministic model doesn't take into account just to clarify, right, it doesn't take into account human behavior. So for example, if you're supposed to be social distancing, your social this, that's absolute state, like, it doesn't consider that, you know, if you're on a lockdown, you're going into grocery, and you might happen to you remove your mask to unlock your phone. So none of these is accounted for. I mean, I guess it's not specifically accounted for in this   Tyler Martin  05:58 model, either.   Pouya LJ  06:00 But it basically treated as absolute steady state, meaning that it's everything being perfect. Is it? Well, I guess it depends on the assumptions you make to right you can also be assumption that, right? So so but whatever assumption you make is a fixed one in this in the, in the, what do you call it? The deterministic modeling? Right? Yeah, everything is fixed. For the stochastic model, we actually have a probability, right? So like, if you're more probable to go outside, or if you're more probable to stay inside, so it's not like you're fixed to do one certain thing. We have a probability density. Right? So instead of means 01, it's somewhere between zero and one. Exactly. Potentially. And our deals models like this stochastic ones. Are these probabilities dynamic, maybe changing in time? time?   Tyler Martin  06:51 Yeah, for sure. They change in time because people's reactions to a pandemic changes with time as well. So like, like we saw when the pandemic first started, a lot of people were outside and about not really caring. But as soon as the stay at home orders and stuff came along in the lockdowns, then we had to stay inside. So then our model has to account for that as well. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  07:17 Yeah, that's, that's fair. Is there anything specific you want to talk about in either of the two? In the technicality? So what are the factors that we're looking at? When we're saying probability of, for example, you mentioned human behavior, but what other factors are relevant here,   Tyler Martin  07:35 because actually, it depends on how complex you want to make your model. So if you want to make a super complex model, then you could take in a ton of factors like not only just human behavior, but like traveling around the world, and which planes travel to which countries and which are bringing back stuff. Or another common thing is for Western societies, we like to shake hands. And so for other societies, we don't have that type of contact. Like in Asian societies, it's normal to bow. So just like even the smallest things, just like that you can take into account into our model. And but as the more you take into account, the more complex it gets, so it's kind of like a trade off. Right, right.   Pouya LJ  08:23 Yeah. And then you did mention the, we get to be practicing soon enough, I suppose. But you didn't mention like, it is really deep. It's all these these models all started with some sort of assumption, right? And that assumption, determines what the what so let me take actually a couple of steps back for people who are not maybe thinking about so the idea is that you want to see, you want to model meaning try to predict what will happen given a certain guesses like so you you, you say okay, if there's no lockdowns, right, I'm correct me if I'm wrong here or if I'm slightly off, or you can add a caveat to it. But the idea is that if we make certain assumptions, meaning for example, there's no lockdowns, everybody's behaving like they would there's no pandemic at all right? What is the number what are the numbers are going to look like? What are the number, the number of people who are getting sick or who are dying, what demographics what you know, geographical neighborhoods, perhaps are the country, the city etc. And based on that, and then you combine and then you create different models with different sets of set of assumptions and find out what you want to do depending on what you want to achieve. So for example, you want so what is that absolutely no restrictions What? at all, one with minimal restrictions, maybe just socially distancing, and mask but then do whatever you want. Or maybe to 20% capacity, restaurants, whatever or absolutely locked out. So you create certain, you take certain assumptions, and you model these and you see, try to see into the future, essentially, and then try and then politicians come up and based on those predictions, if you will make certain decisions about what to do, what restrictions they were they want to impose on the population and whatnot. Is that Is that a fair summary of what what is the point of these models? in the first place?   Tyler Martin  10:25 Yeah, yeah, that was a great summary. And the big point is, is the relationship between the politicians and the scientific researchers, so if they don't have a good relationship, and they're not constantly communicating over what they're finding from these models, then the politicians will have a harder time making decisions on health policy issues, right. So that you have to have that constant communication going back and forth. So you can make those good decisions. Exactly. Now, that's   Pouya LJ  10:57 a very fair, fair point, actually. And so, now, I said all of this, to clarify all of this, but the beef I have with these models at some point, not not all the time. But first of all, they're not the so this is the this is the idea that some people talk about, actually, my dad always talks about this, he's like, the carpenter only cares about the wood, or the shoemaker cares about his shoes, and the electrician cares about his wires. At the end of the day, when you're talking to somebody whose job is to save lives, the only thing they're going to care about is to save lives. And yeah, the save lives doesn't comprehensively and take into account everything. It just takes into account saving lives who are being lost due to COVID. Period. Yeah, you know, like, if it if it. I mean, I'm not saying those people actually thinking like this, but that's their priority, because that's their job. The same way My job is, I don't know what it is. But right now to talk. So all I'm gonna focus on this fucking right.   Tyler Martin  12:00 So   Pouya LJ  12:03 my point is that, okay, all these things are getting done, I guess, supposedly, the politicians job is to take into account all of these models from the, you know, the, the scientific community from the, from the health community first in the first place. And then similar models are going to be done slightly different, obviously. But similar mathematical models are going to be done in on the economical side by the economist, or what is what are the impacts are going to be based on different assumptions, again, to the economy, and then eventually politician is going to be a general person, taking all of these into account, that's at least the idea, and then make some some decisions. Anyways, let's back up. So the beef that I have is that there, there, the there is no caveats, by when when you're talking about me, and you know it, the scientists know it, but when you're communicating this to the public, there's no caveat that all these modern things, though, they predict into the future, they have, they highly depend on your assumptions. And as you mentioned, ultimately, they're completely probabilistic. Like I, some of these models I have seen specifically restricted to Ontario is where we are in Canada. So and, and some of these don't take in taking don't take into account at all that they're, in fact, travelers coming from different countries. And I'm not saying they shouldn't, right. And, and they're, they're their only variable is human behavior due to lockdowns or restrictions or whatnot. And sure, that changes the numbers. But But let's let's let's toy around with no travels whatsoever, or where are these? You know, where are these outbreaks actually coming from? Is it is it because of travelers? Or is it not? Or is it because people are going to restaurant or is not? So I think this is very last Sunday? Again, and it portrays outside to the public so much that, you know, these are God given things, which I think and Would you agree with that they're they're very, very varying, depending on your assumptions.   Tyler Martin  14:12 Definitely assumptions is like, probably one of the biggest things like you can have a model that is almost exactly the same. But if you vary one thing, they can go completely different directions, like you can be off by if you're calculating the number of deaths, you can be off by quite a lot. So our underlying assumptions of our model are particularly important that we make accurate assumptions from what we actually perceive in the world.   Pouya LJ  14:45 Perfect. Now, I just wanted to make sure that I'm on track. They're not just spewing nonsense out there. Now, obviously now, the more interesting subject today has become the vaccination and vaccination. strategies, how are you vaccinated when vaccinate, who which population to vaccinate, which geographical location to vaccinate, etc. And so all of these are very good questions. And again, similar models are being done. And I know you were talking about before we started this conversation live recorded. You were talking about this new york times article, which was looking at different vaccination strategies. And essentially, they were trying so this is the title of the article, if I let me read it out, when when could the United States reach herd immunity? Well, question question mark. And the answer is, it's complicated. And hey, answer this. So first of all, let's define herd immunity. What is hurting herd immunity for those who don't know it?   Tyler Martin  15:43 Okay, I have to define one more thing before I define herd immunity. Okay, fair enough. Oh, first, there's a reproduction number. So a reproduction number basically just says, If I had the virus, how many people on average, would I pass the virus on to? So say, I have a reproduction number of two, that means me having the virus on average, I pass it on to two more people. So a herd immunity says that our reproduction number is less than less than one. So when we have less than one, then there's no chance of an outbreak or epidemic happening. And this means that there's less risk of the situation getting more serious. So herd immunity, basically just says, um, let me get a good definition that the state of the population where the fraction protected is sufficient to prevent outbreaks. And so herd immunity kind of just is basically what we want to reach from vaccination efforts. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  16:53 vaccination and the fact that people already some people already got and and recovered, right. And supposedly they can't get reinfected.   Tyler Martin  17:00 Exactly. So they're like, we have to take into account or remove population when we're doing these, the removed population is basically people who've gotten it and can't get it again, or people who have tragically passed away from it, or people who have immunity to it COVID. We don't know if it's any immunity to it yet. Like underlying immunity, but there are other diseases with immunity.   Pouya LJ  17:25 Right? Exactly. So so then that, and that, because there's a certain portion of the population whatever that number may be, that is removed, then they are not, which is the reproductive number drops below one which ends up and over time this virus decays, because it cannot. So if I get it, if my r naught is one mean, means that if the average is means that if I get it, I can only give it to one more person, so I'm only replacing myself, I'm not growing. And if it's less than one, on average, it means that I'm not even replacing myself. So over time, this is gonna vanish, because that's exactly okay. So yeah, right. So So in that sense, it's a combination of these, whether you're vaccinated and your immune or your so if I got it, and I come to contact with you, I'm assuming you're vaccinated, then you can't possibly get it. Whereas if you were not vaccinated, I would give it to you. And my Arnott would be at least plus one, because you're not you. You are not vaccinated. You're not Yeah. Yeah, that immune not being immune, or whatever. So either that person has passed. So it doesn't even exist to, you know, contract it, or they already got it. So there they have immunity because they cannot be reinfected. At least for a period of time. We don't know what the period of time is exactly. But let's just say for now, for the purpose of this argument, let's just say it's indefinite, and or persons vaccinated. Again, same idea. Now, now, let's go back to the article, I suppose and you can take the range from there, but I'm going to reiterate the question. So they were trying to researchers were trying to see when, you know, says reaches this herd immunity, meaning that the reproductive number will be less than one. So eventually the virus will die out over a period of time, and it definitely cannot grow. And their conclusion in one sentence was this complicated. So why did they say that on what, what what were they looking at? What they find what happened? Go ahead.   Tyler Martin  19:31 Yeah, it is actually very complicated. I think as a Canadian to looking at what the states is doing is definitely beneficial for us. Because we don't vary a ton from them. Some of the states have a lot more relaxed. laws as in like, they can walk around without masks and stuff, but we're actually fairly the same. So just looking at this is very interesting. One thing they want to look at was They sped up the rate of vaccination. So on average, the US is administering about 1.7 vaccination shots a day. So if they continue to do this, their reach herd immunity by July, and around 100,000 people pass. However, if they sped it up, it would increase to around 13 million shots per day, then they reach herd herd immunity By May, and 90,000 people with pass. And if they increased it even more, which is very improbable to 5 million day, that's kind of insane. They reach herd immunity by enpro. And 80,000, people would pass. I think the more interesting part of this article is looking up is looking how herd immunity and vaccination along with with relaxing social distancing measures comes into effect. So, if you actually keep 1.7 million shots per day, and then look at relaxing your social distancing measures, they return her to me by July, like I said before, 100,000 people would pass. But if you lift restrictions, when 15% of the population is vaccinated, then you reach herd immunity by June, so a little earlier than July and 17. Or say 170,000 people have passed. So that's a big jump from 100,000. And then even more interesting, if they end all restrictions right now. Then they reach herd immunity by May. But in that case, 3200 or 320,000 people who pass so these jumps to me are just like, insane. When you look at how many people would pass if you just relax the restrictions on social distancing?   Pouya LJ  22:15 Mm hmm. Right. And, yeah, that isn't saying the same thing we were talking about. The initial assumptions can change a lot. And the same thing happens in the vaccination strategies and social distance. So I think so. Now, I don't know if I got it. So with currently with the with, what do you call it, their current rates of vaccination? And the if we don't, if we keep the measures in place, like the social distancing, or at least the basic measures, such as the social distancing and the masks, yeah, now, that number of deaths in the United States until the herd immunity is achieved is 100,000. People. Yeah. Right. So if so let's let's pick this again. So if the same rate of giving vaccine to the US population is continued, not increased, not decreased, which is 1.7 million per day, which is impressive, by the way, is a lot. Yeah. Do they have a lot of big population too? Yeah. Bigger than Canada. I mean, so anyways, so 1.7 million per day until the next foreseeable future, like unless next few months, and then you still do social distancing, you still do wear masks? Maybe not no major parties or anything. And then the estimated number of deaths from COVID until July which is the time that they reach herd immunity is 100,000. But if they don't take the if they ease up the measures, meaning don't wear masks, maybe don't social distance, maybe throw away some parties but not a lot then then that then that number jumps by almost twice and 171 point seven 170 1000 also, which is and and and and now let's say we keep this social distancing measures and hold on a second. Let me see if I get this article. Right. Excuse me. Now if you do increase the supply to 3 million a day, yeah, but that but then they didn't do any investigation as to what happens if you do measures or don't do measures today? No. If you increase the supply, but also keep the measures   Tyler Martin  24:39 Oh, no, they didn't. They didn't do that. Okay,   Pouya LJ  24:41 yeah, okay, okay. Okay. They didn't do that. Okay, but it is very interesting and okay, but if they do increase the however if they do almost double the shots, although they reach herd immunity much sooner, still number of deaths is like 10,000 people. That's 490 Yeah. That doesn't make a lot of sense. How's that? You know,   Tyler Martin  25:03 I'm not too sure. That would also depend on what we're talking about before their underlying assumptions. Right. Right. So   Pouya LJ  25:08 they didn't talk about those assumptions, I suppose.   Tyler Martin  25:12 Right? And yeah, they Yes, they do. Put it in the beginning a little bit, but not too   Pouya LJ  25:19 long. Because,   Tyler Martin  25:20 yeah, they also do cover the different types of variants. Oh, interesting. So with the current variant, like I said before, 100,000 by July. So 100,000, people would pass, and they'd return immediately by July. But for the more contagion, like, very more contagious variants with precautions, and they in the states gets all of those variants, they would have around 200,000 people pass, and they reach herd immunity by July. But if they have the most contagious variants with no precautions at all, they reached an insane number of 530,000 people. And the herd immunity by April.   Pouya LJ  26:16 So more number of people in short amount of time, basically. Mm hmm.   Tyler Martin  26:20 Exactly. Yeah, it's it's quite a number to look at. The death toll at that point would be just insane.   Pouya LJ  26:29 So in a way, the the the immunity due to getting the virus and recovering from it as actually acting much faster than the vaccination process, basically. So that's why they're getting to the herd immunity earlier, because the virus is infecting everybody and whoever survives just as immune. So the immunity increases fast moving, but, but obviously, a lot of people are   Tyler Martin  26:53 doing cost. Yeah,   Pouya LJ  26:54 yeah. Well, that's, that isn't, like these numbers that that is looking at these numbers is actually quite, we will, by the way, I should say this, we will put the link a link to this article in the show notes. So if anybody wants to go and look at these numbers, themselves, feel free to do so. Okay, let's, let's now move move forward. Unless you want to talk about this article more. I don't know if there's anything left? No, no. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So let's move forward a little bit and talk about what are the discussed around the table, if you will, the different strategies of vaccinations? And what is the argument for each of them in terms of who to vaccinate, which areas to vaccinate, why and why not? Etc.   Tyler Martin  27:40 Yeah, there's a couple different methods of vaccination. One very promising one is called a focus method of vaccination. That's where you focus in on a certain group of people. Give them all the vaccination that we have. And then once there are not basically as getting better, then you move out to a little more like diverse, further out rural areas and start vaccinating back. Oh, so   Pouya LJ  28:09 it's mostly thinking geographically, right? Yeah. If you're, if you're in our big, if you're in a big, congested populated city, for example, let's say Toronto, New York, whatever, then you focus on that and leave the rest of the state under province a lot, right? That's the idea. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.   Tyler Martin  28:26 And so like that strategy is actually one of the more promising strategies. So we actually, as Canadians, we see this happening now. Nova Scotia is giving up some of their vaccination to other places in Canada, so that we can actually get to a herd immunity for Canadians as a whole faster. Yeah. Interesting.   Pouya LJ  28:51 And do you know it is now across Canada? One story, but within Ontario, do you know if they're using this strategy or not? Like the focus wrench?   Tyler Martin  29:00 I'm not too sure. From what I know, it's more of just everyone gets to or the most people. important people get a first as in the people who are doctors who are Yeah, doctors, frontline workers, or people who need it, like the elderly need it. So people like that would get it first. So it's more than not focusing on a particular area. They're just trying to get the people who are who   Pouya LJ  29:34 can't think of the word more vulnerable, maybe Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I get I get the I think the doctors and nurses is a bit clear to me because we want them to be healthy to take care of all of us, not just for COVID for everything really. So that's even from a very selfish point of view, not acknowledging their sacrifices, complete selfish point of view. You still want them to get it first. I think the frontline worker Especially doctors and nurses, and the rest of the frontline workers, perhaps to paramedics, police officers, etc. So those are because there's a very important, like they have to be able to function. And at the same time, like very urgently be able to function at the same time, they're much higher at much higher risk. So that I think it makes complete sense. But after that, although there are there really are most vulnerable, but they're not mixing as much. I'm not so convinced that the focus after that prioritizing those people, the focus approach will not be more successful. But they still also, by the way, so they still do these similar modeling, get taking different assumptions, right, for example, assuming that you give it to elderly and assuming that you give it to like a focus strategy to give it to parts of the population that are mixing and mingling more. Maybe there are denser neighborhoods, for example, the basically the places that have the highest numbers, geographical places, right? Yeah. So get them. You know, as soon as they get contained, they can't really move it on either. Right? as much. What do you think on that? That would be your thoughts? personally.   Tyler Martin  31:16 I think mathematical modeling wise, it's a, it's a better way to get down to death toll to vaccinate the elderly first, like if you think about it, our death toll will go down. If we vaccinate the elderly first compared to everyone else, because the elderly are dying the most Sure. So if you're just looking at it, from a mathematical modeling point of view, it's like if we want to get down the death toll, vaccinate the elderly. In general, though, I'm not too sure. I would say the focus strategies, probably the better strategy to go to, but, um, after the frontline workers get their vaccination, I don't know. I'm not too sure. Who should get it after that. Right. Really not. It's a very complicated story, obviously. Yeah. And you don't get on people's feet by saying that you shouldn't get vaccinated. Yeah, so yeah, no, I   Pouya LJ  32:17 mean, I'm definitely not saying that I think focus is the right way to go. I'm just saying it's not really clear which one is? And maybe there is no one right answer or one wrong, and maybe both answers are wrong, or both of them? Yeah. So it's just a slightly better, I think they're actually at the end of the day in the long margins of things, depending on what you're looking at. Yeah, sure. Maybe if you're here, purely looking at death tolls due to COVID specific because on the other hand, look, there have been reports and studies done on the the side effects of this whole COVID thing like not, you know, not just the deaths and despair from the COVID, but also that loss of job economic distress, you know, suicide rates, people who couldn't get their scans and for cancer, etc, their operations. And that all of that is obviously costly as well, we cannot just ignore that, although the forefront is to COVID disaster, but it has, you know, side effect that is rippling through our societies and communities as well. Right. So we definitely would like to, if we do like to look at it comprehensively, I think, at the end of the day that the approaches are not really clear cut. And that is what you were mentioning, like in terms of, if you want to introduce more variables, it just keeps getting more complicated. Exactly, yeah. And perhaps even impossible to to predict anything with any good amount of good measure of accuracy. So yeah, I guess I bought my way complicated. It's not as easy as this is the right way to go. So maybe we can relinquish that arrogance, I suppose to a degree, because it is a complicated problem. So yeah. Is there anything we left on the vaccination fund that you wanted to talk about that we   Tyler Martin  34:14 didn't? I think we pretty much covered it all. By no means am I also a vaccination expert. No, we're just   Pouya LJ  34:22 discussing our own, you know, experience with these articles.   Tyler Martin  34:27 Yeah,   Pouya LJ  34:28 yeah. That's good. Because I think, two to a high degree because you actually did study these matters to a degree. I mean, again, I'm not quite we're not claiming to be experts, neither of us but because you have done specifically the math, math, mathematical modeling. I'm sure you have more understanding than many including myself. So it's good to. We don't need to listen to the greatest experts to increase our knowledge. I think it doesn't. That's as long as you know more than me. I can learn from you. That's it. Yeah.   Tyler Martin  35:00 Yeah, exactly.   Pouya LJ  35:02 Right. Okay, yeah. So I think it's a good place to stop, like, end that conversation. I'm gonna give you a few moments after this to, you know, gather your thoughts. final words, if you want to save, but before that, I think it's a good point. I think this was a good. Good understand, I think you had this epiphany, I suppose. And I definitely did that it is, in fact, a complicated matter. It's not as easy as 123 go. It's a bit requires in depth contemplation. And at the end of the day, there are going to be mistakes, there are going to be errors, there are going to be things that are not going to get to the right answer. Or what is even the right answer. Right. So all of these are subject to a lot of assumptions. And I think that was that was the some of the most important epiphany of all in this in this journey today. Exactly. Do you have any final thoughts that you want to add to it?   Tyler Martin  36:07 Maybe one last thought, and that is that no mathematical model can accurately predict the future. Like no matter what if we take in the as many complex variables as we can, we can predict the exact amount of people who will die. So take every everything these politicians say about mathematical modeling with a grain of salt when they're saying it, but some of them are actually fairly accurate at the same time.   Pouya LJ  36:34 Yeah. They're the best worst thing we have. Exactly.   Tyler Martin  36:39 Exactly. Okay.   Pouya LJ  36:40 Fair enough. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Tyler. It was a pleasure talking to you today.   Tyler Martin  36:46 It was pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on.   Pouya LJ  36:48 No problem. I'm thank you all for tuning in and listening to yet another episode and I hope you enjoyed it. Leave your comments, suggestions, questions below there are there's going to be shownotes as I mentioned, which we're going to include the New York Times article in it and until later episode, have a good one. Take care

The story of the human race is the story of masses selling themselves short. Do you know why you assume many of the goals you would like to achieve to be impossible? The answer lies in the emotional state you habitually find yourself in. In this brief program you will learn how to set yourself up to do what you thought was impossible and end up making it possible! 

One of the biggest drawbacks of the coronavirus pandemic has been the psychological toll of dealing with the uncertainties of this health hazard along with all the social and financial limitations that it could bring about. As a results we are seeing an increase in the number of depressions and suicides during this tough period. On this program Daniel and Pouya discuss the issue of depression and suicide during the pandemic and offer solutions on how to effectively prevent or manage both. The advices given here are not meant to replace the those of mental health professionals and if you are suffering from symptoms of depression or suicidal thoughts make sure to seek professional help as soon as possible.   Photo by Jonathan Rados on Unsplash   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS pandemic, people, depression, extroverted, nations, introverted, extroverts, seminar, pressure, harder, problems, psychological toll, active, suicide, airbnb, world, challenge, life, literally, social SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, and welcome back ladies and gentlemen to yet another episode of the b2b podcast joined as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, buddy?   Dan  00:16 What's up, buddy? How's it going good to be here with you for yet another awesome podcast. Let's talk addition beyond the present here with you man life is great. Fortunately, we're hitting a lot of great news worldwide regarding the progress towards the basically the coronavirus pandemic right now worldwide, particularly with respect to the you know, vaccination because the fact that Pfizer and basically vaccine and a few others were somehow kind of slow to move into to transfer to different countries because of you know, the all the temperature requirements. Now, just today, it was announced that the Sputnik V, the Russian vaccine actually is more than 91% effective. And as you probably know, that was basically made with the older technologies, which means it doesn't require any specific equipment to be transferred, it can just be moved around by a simple refrigerator anywhere around the world. And that is going to make it much faster and supply vaccine to more developing nations or poor nations around the world to accelerate the process of getting out of this goddamn pandemic. So that was a very good news overall, of course, in the same country, we're getting some other bad news about the politics, but then again, politics is rarely a happy place for most people, right. So generally, life is great in terms of business, gradually, the world is somehow coming to terms with the pandemic, we're gradually seeing improvements in terms of employment numbers all around the world, or at least in those nations that I'm currently active in. So overall, it's been great. And the hope that this pandemic is soon going to at least be alleviated and eventually conquered hopefully, by the end of the year, is just probably the best news we've gotten so far and couldn't be any happier.   Pouya LJ  01:51 No, absolutely. That's true. It's it's been it's been devastating here. And it's continues to be and that's great news to hear that there there are being things are being facilitated towards vaccination in a variety of countries, not just to developing the developed countries, but also the developing countries. However, in the meantime, we are still in the midst of the pandemic and to talk which brings us to today's topic, which has people dealing with depression and suicide during this pandemic, because a variety of Yeah, from variety of reasons, from the lack of activity, perhaps to not being able to contact with others, loss of jobs and economic hardships, caused people to retreat mentally, perhaps, to a degree, depressed, and the worst case is, unfortunately, commit suicide. Now, what are your thoughts very broadly on this topic, during this pandemic?   Dan  02:50 First of all, what a great topic you pick Pooja x for this show, I agree with you completely. And the reasons are multitude when it comes to the reasons why we are seeing higher numbers of depression and extremely higher numbers of suicide, which is just unprecedented, basically. But then again, as you put it out yourself, it definitely does make sense. I mean, you would definitely expect such things to happen in this current situation, given the fact that the pandemic has pretty much made it impossible to be human. I mean, what makes us human, I was watching a speech by Chancellor Merkel. And despite the fact that she has been quite harsh, basically, with the restrictions, which I think she made the right decision, because Germany was getting out of control. And she made a lot of basically new sweeping rules to make sure that people are staying at home. And she was in one of her speeches actually was saying that, oh, all the things that we have done, is actually making us less human. So she admitted it openly. And I really admire her courage for that, too, as a global leader to come and say that, she said that all the things we say we should not be doing are the things that we should technically be doing to be healthy and happy. I mean, physical contact with those around us getting close, being social, communicating frequently, leaving the house being physically active, moving around, eating well, and above all, not always panicking and being anxious. Oh my gosh, I'm going to talk I'm going to tell you this right now, how to get the virus. Literally, I was in a seminar yesterday. Of course, we conduct this seminar, under the strict rules of the basically health guidelines to make sure that first of all, the number of attendants were kept limited. And secondly, maintenance major, everybody wears masks and have the distance. And in that seminar, we actually talked about a similar topic. And ultimately, a lot of our attendance set like I am just my biggest problem isn't the goddamn virus. It's the psychological toll that it has had on my life. Now, in the same seminar we took, we took a survey and we realized, generally this pandemic has hurt the extroverted population far more severely than the introverted ones. I mean, like, we were just we ask people, so which ones in this class for example, or this environment are more likely to be introverted? We collect You know the results, who is going to be like extroverted, we've got the results. And realize the ones who reported to be more extroverted are the ones ironically, who find it almost impossible to deal with one of our tenants, they're like, you know what I've been doing this for like, I'm when I wouldn't when it first happened, I told my husband, this is going to be like, oh, a couple of months, maximum, maybe two, three months. And I just can't go any further. I'm just literally done with this. And obviously, that pressure and that psychological toll isn't just on that lady within our center. But it's basically describes perfectly what is happening to billions of people around the world right now. It's the same level of pressure and anxiety. So I guess the biggest tool that it had on us, other than the fact that we can't really do a lot of things we normally have always taken for granted. But it's more about that sense of, you know, presence, always worrying if I'm going to get infected or not always having to watch any one of our attendance. Like, look at my hands. I've been watching this every friggin 1015 minutes, and I'm done. So all of these things are going to create problems. And this is definitely going to affect us negatively in terms of our mental health and psychological well being. So obviously, as you pointed out, basically, this issue is tremendous. It has affected all of us, some of us more than the others. I mean, those of our listeners right now who tend to self report themselves as extroverts probably have been hurt, hit hit the hardest. And ironically, we've had a couple of introverts in our audience who said, Hey, I love the pandemic, it's the best time ever, I don't have to leave the house, I can work in my pajamas. And I can simply read books all the time, I don't see anyone's faces Oh, normal. So it really depends, I guess, on the person you're talking to. Right. So definitely, this pandemic has not been as harsh on certain people, especially, I guess, on those who come from wealthier backgrounds. I mean, those who are are basically wealthy in general, who have had assets before the pandemic. Now, most of them are richer in most nations that I'm currently active. And actually, whether it's those who work in real estate, those who have, you know, a couple of stocks. Now, you remember that games, basically stopped stocks, guys, I mean, that was incredible, basically. But what I'm saying is, those who have been wealthier headed much better off. Unfortunately, those who were middle class or lower middle class, they are the ones who are hit the hardest, because not only they have to face with all of the natural psychological impacts of the pandemic, they have even lost their jobs, many of them and they don't have even money. So on top of all of that, now, they have financial problems, too. And as you probably know, in the field management, we say, no crisis ever occurs alone, and always is followed by other crises, because one thing leads to another and this continues, right. So because of all of this, now, we are seeing a tremendous impact on the psychological well being of people around the world. And of course, it is a mental health crisis. And we need to help people to find their way around and to hopefully make it to the end of the pandemic, basically intact.   Pouya LJ  08:09 I couldn't agree more. Yeah. So that there's There are multitudes of why somebody would face challenges mentally, perhaps, you mentioned a lot of them, of course, economics. pressures could be another, you know, potential problems that people are facing. And sometimes that takes a toll. Now, to a degree, especially, so it's really, I guess, it really depends on the causes of the mental pressure and depression, perhaps, but to a degree, it might really not be avoidable for for some people under some circumstances, or it might be for others, perhaps to a degree. But either way, I think there should be then there are ways to, you know, minimize this pressure, just mental pressure. And I want to put a disclaimer here, neither myself or Daniel are not, you know, experts in this subjects. We're not licensed   Dan  09:04 or not certified healthcare professionals. These are meant purely to inform you, and it's not going to replace the advice of a professional psychiatrists.   Pouya LJ  09:13 Perfect. Yeah, that's what I was going with this. So just if you do have problems, please seek professional help. But we're merely here to give our own proper advice based on our expertise. But no licenses here. So I just had to put that disclaimer out there. But from your perspective, what are the things people especially extroverted people, you like yourself, because you're one of them? who's dealing fairly with this challenge? Oh, and people who have, you know, financial difficulties, what would you How would you, you know, advise the people of these two categories mainly, for sure,   Dan  09:49 but I'm actually I'm gonna give you both answers in a moment because I know my answer, but you on the other hand, I'm sure also all of our listeners know about this that you are at slightly more on the introverted sign and I'm more on the shorter side. So I'm actually curious first about you. Did you really feel that toll and pressure on you there in this basically, period? I mean, how do you feel as somebody who's more introverted than extroverted?   Pouya LJ  10:13 Right? So, this is actually a funny question you ask because especially being around somebody like yourself, yes, I'm definitely much more introverted than your. So I always consider myself more like, Yeah, probably in the middle, but edging towards the introverted side. But actually, this when they make happen, and I did, then I realize how much I in fact, am extroverted. Because I started missing people. I   Dan  10:37 was like, No, I just want to see people.   Pouya LJ  10:40 And phone calls. Don't just introverts   Dan  10:42 feel a pain, man, can you believe that even those, of course you are not a hardcore introvert, obviously, because you're more on the ambivert side. So you have both sides to your character and personality. But of course, I talked to a few really hardcore introverts who didn't have much problem, but I'm pretty sure even like a very standard introvert would still feel a lot of things is missing in his or her life.   Pouya LJ  11:04 Absolutely, because as humans, this is just those human interactions. And you know, personal touches are essential to our existence. I mean, again, yes, there are always exceptions to these, quote unquote, rules. But typically, we as humans do crave that, you know, interaction. So it was it was, I just realized how extroverted I actually am. And, yeah, so I mean, of course, you can do phone calls, you can do video calls, group, video calls, etc, all of that good stuff. But at the end of the day, there's something that is about, you know, physically being in the same place at the same time, that has a, a, you know, a comforting feeling that is always missing in these interactions. Yeah, but I still don't definitely have the hardest of times, I'm sure. Probably compared to people like yourself, but it did hit me a little bit, especially deep into after months have passed the pandemic, it definitely did hit me.   Dan  12:06 Especially you living in Canada, and and you guys are all, you know, law abiding citizens and nice guys, like you never, never, like violate anything. So I'm guessing it was much harder for you guys as well, are those nations who really followed all the health protocols? Because in some nations that I've worked in, pretty much nothing I mean, right now, for example, if you go to countries like Russia, dude, these guys have opened their strip clubs as well. So I mean, that's it's very hard to wear a mask when you're getting strict, basically dancing right there. But overall, it's, what I'm saying is it hasn't affected people equally in different nations, for sure. And since this issue really is an international issue, you see major and measurable differences between nations among their citizens, based on the rules, conventions, and how well the people follow those rules. They seem, I think that's incredibly important, basically. So as expected, of course, for us extroverts, the pressure has been much harder. Although I personally have done my very best to make sure that my social life is not going to be affected so much. Now, in addition to having basically meetings, online, from morning to night, pretty much I felt my entire schedule, make sure I'm always working. And I'm always in touch, especially communicating. And for me, that's very important. I also managed to whenever we could to actually create, you know, events and seminars as much as possible to fill up that gap if you will, even though because nowadays, it's much harder to attend, for example, like a full on party, because obviously limitations and there's no possibility of dancing. But seminars, it's a lot more feasible given that you can actually create social distancing on the audience, and so on and so forth. So I tried my very best to remain as social as possible. And be really that when it comes to extroverts, they reading to do their best to get out of the house, whatever way they can. Now, for me personally, I also have always taken my basically, sports seriously taking my fitness seriously and my workout very seriously. So during the pandemic, my actually my record has actually increased in almost all the things I do. And nowadays I exercise three times per day, so morning before going to work and basically in the afternoon when I hit the gym and at nights just for you know, relaxing walks. So I actually ended up exercising more during the pandemic, you know, than before. Ironically, it was pretty interesting. And now, fortunately, in my case, I did not have to deal with the financial aspect of the pandemic because all of our businesses, except for the ones regarding real estate, with respect to Airbnb business model, were not affected that much. So pretty much all of our businesses remains active because we managed to link them all online, except for the ones regarding the tourism because we have basically the as it proposed, Previously, on one of our posts about this Airbnb model, we actually had an episode about this completely discuss the details. So that sector because it's linked to tourism I was heavily influenced until a while back when the borders gradually got open in certain countries like Dubai, for example. But still outside of tourism, and Airbnb, Reynolds, pretty much all of our other businesses were active during the summon, in some cases actually became more profitable than before. However, and I know that in this case, I am not representing the majority of people around the world. What is instead, the case is that most people around the world unfortunately suffered financially, they lost their jobs, they tap into all of their savings. And they started, you know, accumulating credit debts for consumer basically products. And this is a very, very bad and very grainy view of the future for most of these people, because now they have to work for years just to get out of the debts they accumulate during the pandemic. So for that reason, I believe that we need to create a plan a game plan to approach both our social lives and our financial lives. Many of those so called depressions that you mentioned, or even suicides have to do with their finances. I mean, let's be honest, if you really lose your job, and then you have no income, and you have no job and no work for two years, you're, something's gonna, you know, click in your head, like, Man, I'm done with this, I'm, where's my shotgun? And you're going to have some problems, obviously, right? So for that reason, I believe we need to have a game plan to address both issues. Because our depression, in most cases has to do either with our basically emotional problems or our financial problems, because both are equally challenging to our basically psyche. And we have to find a way to address both. And obviously, I think the key here is how we can address both separately, depending on the nation culture and their lifestyles.   Pouya LJ  16:45 That's very comprehensive, I think you hit it right on, it's, it's definitely a challenge. So what I can say to those people is that you're not alone, you know, Bear Bear that in mind, and notice that this is a challenge for a lot of people. Some are luckier, of course, than others, perhaps, or more prepared, perhaps. But at the end of the day, this is this is a, this is a collective challenge. That should be a hopeful view, meaning that you're not alone. Because a lot of times these mental pressures, or more pressured by the fact that you feel like you're left out, you're alone, nobody's there with you. But at least even if it's challenge, it's a collective challenge. And I'm sure we'll get past in one way or another. Okay, so we're coming to the end portion of the show, and I want to give you the time to, you know, give it like a bring everything together if we didn't say something, do so. But before that I just have a news, which is just   17:51 what is it?   Pouya LJ  17:52 Now, the BTB podcast is also available on iHeartRadio. And iOS for the website.   Dan  18:00 I Heart Radio. That's right. We're now on radio, baby. Come on.   Pouya LJ  18:06 Yeah, so so this is this is another good news. I just received the confirmation. So congratulations to us. And   Dan  18:12 first of all, I want to congratulate you, you are the world's literally the best producer, at least for me, you're the world's best Podcast Producer, good job for you know, making the progress really, you put a lot of effort into this arranging, everything's using AI to generate, you know, the transcript of our conversations, creating new ways to publish it. And really amazing man, I congratulate you for the hard work. And yet I Heart Radio, beyond the present podcast. Oh, yeah.   Pouya LJ  18:40 It was much appreciated. And anybody who already is on the platform, I'm sure you're gonna get a kick out of it. If not deco, take a look at the platform. It's actually quite quite nice for, you know, podcasting. And they also have live live radio. So they should do that. Anyways. So getting back to our subject. Now, the time is yours, the platform is yours. if we missed anything that you wanted to add, or you want to bring everything together, please do. So   Dan  19:07 let's write very well. So we discussed in detail today about the issue of depression and suicide. We brought about the causes, but we haven't fully offered solutions of like in the last part, give a few solutions for those of us who are suffering from depression right now as we speak, or are perhaps, goodness forbid, are contemplating perhaps suicide. When it comes to depression. Of course, that's a far more prevalent issue than suicide right now. And if you all listen to us right now, and you feel depressed, you feel like your life makes no sense and that you're losing that sense of pleasure. First of all, know whether or not you have those symptoms. Pretty much depression is defined as you losing motivation and pleasures of the daily life that you used to have and no longer can feel. At the same time you also feel less motivated. So you feel like life is not as pleasant as it used to be or you don't have as much motivation. These are all right signs of early signs of depression. And you need to take action immediately. Now, what does that mean? remove the mask and start kissing people on the streets. No, don't do that, like, well, I got vaccinated, I want to kiss everybody don't do that as dangerous don't do that. So instead, what you got to do is to try to make your life social, even if you are a hardcore introvert, find ways to get social online, perhaps, or events where it's not online, but you can actually maintain your focus and also social distancing. At the same time, try your very best to remain focused on achieving certain goals, you've lost your job, you're running out of your, you know, savings, it's all okay, you could temporarily use credit, just to you know, make ends meet. But please do know that right now, most governments around the world are offering some sort of financial support to their citizens. Now, if you're living in those nations where that's not possible, still, you could be able to create some form of income. So if you're unemployed, you have no job and just said, like, man, I got no money only wires and no money, get out of the house, or at least search online for ways to generate income or find a new job, trust me in the same economy that we are dealing right now. Now, there's a lot of demand for different types of basically jobs. So it could be a courier, it could be a delivery guy. And so well, I work as an accountant, I don't want to be a delivery guy now friends on, I know, but it's a crisis. And it's much better to be active and doing something than not doing so sitting in your home and think that all the good old days and your work in your office is not going to change it. Yeah, it's not as fun to be a delivery guy or find other means of employment that are now more in demand, perhaps, if you're having it experience to work online with some other companies, but the key is keep yourself active and engaged. Success equals goals. The pandemic, unfortunately, has forced a lot of us to forget about our goals or have simply none. set new goals. Ask yourself, what are the kind of goals I can achieve during the pandemic? You want to go even further? Tell yourself, what are some opportunities that the pandemic will present me that I could never ever, ever have? For me right now, literally, the pandemic is an opportunity. And for me, the end of the pandemic is both very happy and very sad. It's going to be very sad, because I am literally going to run out of time for a very special period of opportunism. On the other hand, for a lot of people just imagine, just imagine, like you feel like Dude, pennies on the end, in seven months, I got only seven months to do all these things. Once you change your perspective, not only you will not suffer through the pandemic, as I haven't, but you will actually benefit from it right? So ask yourself, what unique opportunities does pandemic presented me, perhaps deep thoughts, meditation, self analysis, setting new goals, having deep conversations with your partner you haven't had for a long time, or finding new ways to perhaps, you know, get yourself active to open new hobbies. The pandemic is not all that bad guys, trust me. There's a lot of opportunities. They say, within every obstacle or setback, there is a hidden gift. What is that gift for you? What gift has this pandemic brought for you? Yes, the pandemic can bring you some gifts, guys, trust me. Now that's for your emotional aspect of it. Financially, if you're struggling, the story applies. Do not sit on your sofa, watch the news and say, Oh, my government is not releasing the goddamn you know, relief effort button do something I need the paycheck now. Don't sit on your ass and just wait for the government, you know, handle it, you know, a check. Instead, ask yourself how can I generate money right now. But I'm an accountant, I'm not going to work as a delivery guy. Well, you want to be unemployed, it's much better to do something that not to do something right, and get yourself out of the house or engaged to start generating income. Because the fact of the matter is, if you make very bad or poor financial decisions are in this pandemic, it might take you literally five to 10 years to get out of it. This whole pandemic could last for only two years, and then you can have to pay for it financially in terms of, you know, credit payments and credit card payments for the next seven 810 years. So why do that? Why not, instead, find a way to live below your means and maintain and control your finances. Because by doing both of these things, you first of all, get yourself busy, active and moving, which is the key and antidote to all forms of depression. And secondly, you will make sure that your finances will not basically be left without any care or any attention by doing both. Hopefully you will increase your odds of beating depression leading the pandemic And ideally, hopefully benefiting from the pandemic.   Pouya LJ  24:40 Well said, Well, I couldn't so this this whole change of perspective is really really gold out there. I don't it's a gym. I don't think a lot of people really realize and it's obviously easier said than done. When it's done. It's done, you know? Alright, well okay with our company. To the end of the show, as always, thank you then for joining us. My   Dan  25:03 pleasure, buddy. Glad to be here with you.   Pouya LJ  25:05 Thank you and thank you everybody for tuning in. As always now, you can tune in and iHeartRadio as well as you heard in a few minutes ago, until a later episode. Have a good one.

When confronted with the inevitable disruption awaiting the future market places by Artificial Intelligence many compare the AI revolution with that of the industrial revolution, however, analyzing the scale at which the new technology has already affected our lives and the pace at which both AI and robotics are being developed proves that the level of disruption will not be comparable with anything we have seen before!    In this Let’s Talk edition of Beyond the Present Podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss what we can expect in our near and distant future and more importantly what we can do to make it harder to be replaced by technology via choosing the right niche and mastering our craft.      Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS ai, people, obsolete, field, human, business, mastering, job, means, world, degree, vacuum cleaner, skills, problem, life, subject, talk, difficult, pretty, historically SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another let's talk addition. It's been a while we had one of these, but now here we are. And we're talking about the future. First of all, Hey there, Dan.   Dan  00:22 And man, buddy, how's it going? How are you? It's been a while, I'm glad to actually talk to you right now, for a while we've been super busy and the COVID has changed all of our plans, that has certainly changed a lot of my plans, in terms of my travels that have been canceled and the exhibitions that have been canceled and so on. But ultimately, it's been a great, you know, couple of months, because despite the fact that we've had dealt with a lot of issues that are Unfortunately, most of them, of course, were unforeseen. Fortunately, we've managed to get over a lot of these challenges. And I feel like even though in the first four or five months of the pandemic, we are not making good practices, we're just adapting and into the new situation. Now that we've all fully adapted the situation, I guess, we're learning to actually make more progress. Basically, in our work in our businesses, and life is great. And I'm very glad things are fine, haven't you? vuzix? How's life in Canada, where you have to these days? What How do you keep yourself busy? And how are things in Canada?   Pouya LJ  01:17 things are going good. I mean, as you mentioned, life has changed a lot. There are a lot of things that we were used to doing that are either done differently or not done at all. You know, socializing is different. And work is different studies, different   Dan  01:31 studies are super nice, even socially, they let you literally take it to heart this whole social listening, probably I think now, half the population in probably Canada are suicidal, the other half are depressed, I'm guessing.   Pouya LJ  01:42 Well, I mean, I don't know specifically. But obviously, it should have a mental toll on people, you know, how things are going, but I guess everybody is doing their best to cope. One way or another to the witness situation?   Dan  01:58 Is jealousy? And so yourself? How do you spend your time basically these days? And cuz I know you're engaged with your studies. And of course, you have your work in business. So because I don't know about that place, because unfortunately, it's probably no. Now, in the US things are very, very divided. So there's on the one hand, those who don't don't ever wear masks, they don't take any of these things seriously. And they just had a you know, life as if nothing has happened. On the other hand, we have those who are very cautious than you know, all over the world. Now we're seeing very different lifestyle. So I have friends in Europe, who are now in complete state of disarray, because especially with some of my friends right now in Italy, and France are just suffering so much. Whereas I have friends in Russia, where they're just quite relaxed, like no man, there's no guarantee here life is great. So it really depends on where you are right now. China is based if you're in China, right, and you're probably the happiest in the world, because there's pretty much nothing they've already beaten the virus A long time ago. So I think this pandemic has made me think a lot more about, you know, how different countries are handling it, basically. So for Canada, because you guys are somewhere in between Europe and America. I mean, you're neither fully all American crazy and nor fully European. So like, I was wondering, like, how are things now there? And people just keep to themselves all the time? Do you have any social events and gatherings or to clubs and bars and restaurants open? Or that kind of stuff?   Pouya LJ  03:17 Yeah, so obviously, it's very, it's a big country in terms of, you know, surface area.   Dan  03:24 Yeah, but he has one advantage, you're very big. But in terms of like, the population, it's not basically higher again. So that's probably a good thing for the COVID case, broadly speaking,   Pouya LJ  03:35 is actually very good. So most of the country in terms of in terms of population, but in terms of area, geographically, it's very loose, because everything is calmed down and chill down to a good degree, the regulations and whatnot, obviously, they're, they're like masks and whatnot. But when you go to places like Toronto, Ontario, and around Toronto in specific, then you have a different situation, we like two weeks ago, we had to go to a what what's called by the officials a modified stage two is actually means that indoor gatherings are limited to 10 people again, it was   Dan  04:10 Wow, much more, monitors these things because I the exact same problem in Russia, where I actually had to, you know, deal with a lot of problems. In the US things are a lot easier, fortunately. And again, not necessarily fortunately, but at least as of now, there are no strict regulations. Of course, the election will determine, you know, how will this continue? And in some countries like European nations, I mean, they're just I feel sorry for those who are now in Europe right now. So if you're listening to us, you know, from the European Union, literally, I'm just sorry for all of you guys. It's just I feel your pain, and I know how difficult it is for you. But ultimately, I guess it depends. So for Canada, like, do they like have any means of enforcing these rules? Or they just say it and the reason that they are they just follow without asking any questions?   Pouya LJ  04:54 Well, I mean, I think it's a degree of both meaning that essentially, it's You know, guidelines are put in put in place on people, for the most part to follow. These things are maybe not to the letter depends on there are some gray areas, obviously but generally speaking people do follow There are obviously always people who don't follow those rules and regulations. And I've seen sometimes people are getting fun, not individuals, usually it's on the side of businesses for example, if a restaurant is not allowed to host people inside like they can do outdoors at this point, no problem. patios, whatnot.   Dan  05:35 Really, is it possible now with a temperature I don't know how the game is right now is there but I'm just harder for outdoor hosting. Now   Pouya LJ  05:41 it's getting, it's getting more difficult. But for now, it's not still above zero. And they have these like heated patios. So they make it a little bit Wow, more doable. I mean, they have to survive the restaurant business specific, obviously, obviously, when it gets really cold, it gets much more difficult. But it's not there yet. So point being, if businesses are not complying, it's going to be very difficult for them to hide, because much more public, but individuals are a different story. I mean, there are cases that there's some enforcement, but for the most part, they're relying on people following the regulations, etc.   Dan  06:17 I think this whole thing taught me the importance of leadership and how almost the way you live your life, it pretty much is dictated by how the leaders make decisions. And I just realized that a lot more than I used to, and it's just a, you know, very interesting fact overall, but overall, good things are fine. And I hope that all of the world we gradually as we get closer to that, that, you know, vaccine vaccination day, hopefully things gets better and occasional just announced that they are ready to hopefully, work very hard to ship the these vaccines worldwide. Let's see what they do. And let's just stay optimistic.   Pouya LJ  06:51 Yeah, absolutely. That's what we'll see what happens. I mean, typically, I mean, historically, I've heard it somewhere. I'm not. I haven't fact checked this. So people who are listening to this are welcome to do it. themselves. Don't take it from me. But I've heard that historically, the duration of pandemics are somewhere around 18 months. With without an accent vaccine, like even if you go further back. So that is sad in a way that it's going to be 678 more months, months, maybe but on the other hand, are   Dan  07:25 officially so far. So you said 18 months, that's pretty much like almost a year and a half. Yeah, I guess it seems fun that we got still almost half a year to go right. Yeah, roughly. I see pretty good, but still is happier just means that most of the you know, the the distance already been crossed? That's a good thing. If you're an optimist, guys, we're to third through man, come on. Let's push it through.   Pouya LJ  07:47 Well, yeah, but but so the historic data, I think, like even if it's close, it's correct. Let's say it's correct, let's say three months stance historically, roughly, obviously, there's no line. But it doesn't take two things into account. One is vaccine, we're not historically popular, like if you go beyond 8090 hundred years ago, then that's another thing. So you that's one thing, whether we have acting or not, on the other hand, like these kind of quarantines, like, what I'm trying to say, virus would burn through population before people would go isolate themselves, if needed, and whatnot. So this timeline might not really work in that sense. But who knows?   Dan  08:33 I see. Of course, now we have more people around. But then again, we have better technologies. And of course, sure, better means reaching people. So I hope that this is going to be around the same as you mentioned, hopefully, hopefully, and and I really look forward to like going back to normal, hopefully, I guess some around March will be a lot better. That's what I personally have planned for my major travels. And we'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes.   Pouya LJ  08:57 Yeah, absolutely, though, so they were actually that was not part of our agenda. I mean, obviously, talk about it a little bit. But what we're talking about today, very briefly, there's going to be further episodes on this subject, obviously, because it's a big subject. It's another kind of disruption. And that is the the AI disruption or the computer, what we had many technological disruptions before. And one of them is we're going to talk about is artificial intelligence, and its powers and how it affects us and our life. And so we know that all of us have heard, we talked about it on this podcast, that division of intelligence, there's a lot of tasks are going to be automated and done by computers, essentially, you know, from grocery stores now that you do self checkout, for instance, or other means. Now, things are changing very rapidly, very quickly. And one of the natural questions for people especially younger individuals who are trying to get into the workforce and trying to see what they want to follow. The natural question is, what area? Or areas? Can I aim at and go to have a sustainable job or occupation in the future? Now, that is another good question. And that's what we're going to address today. So what are your thoughts generally about automation and artificial intelligence as a powerhouse for for this? phenomenal? I see,   Dan  10:31 you see, one of the problems that I get with people oftentimes tend to compare this AI revolution with that of the Industrial Revolution and saying, you know, what, man, we had the same issue back then. So we used to have horses, and then we got into cars and all that. So the jobs changed and became more industrial. So there are some optimists in this regard, who are saying that, yes, this AI, and this revolution will ultimately create new types of jobs, which I believe that to some point is actually true. But the problem is that that world, the industrial revolution happened in an era where we had far, you know, far fewer people than we have today. And based upon the all the basically estimations, the world population is definitely going to increase, there's no doubt about it. So this is we're going to see more people. So you can compare, I don't know, 1900, and 1800, with 2030 2035, because we're going to have a lot more people. That's number one. And even if you take a look into the history, even though we had, as we got into this revolution, we did face with fewer people who are required to work is now all the factors when working with machines, they were, you know, a lot less need for manual labor. So that's the one issue, people who think like this, just, you know, we're gonna have all this AI stuff, and then people are gonna change their jobs, they're gonna actually move on to doing AI things, if you will. But the fact of the matter is that AI is hap occurring, this revolution is occurring at a time where we have far more people, basically, than we have jobs for them. And number two, it is the issue of how AI disrupts work. By its very nature. You see, when it comes to, for example, Ai, we are talking about a type of technology that is capable of learning and growing and developing itself. So when you are, let's say, designing a machine, or an instrument for a factory, let's say in an early 1900s, obviously, you still need operators to work on this, those who build it and so on. But AI, it is not a technology or an instrument that you can just simply use. Rather, it's a source, it's a basically means of creating other types of technologies. Because AI is capable of generating basically its own decisions and its own basically data. The other issue, of course, is robotics, and how AI, once combined with robotics, can do a lot of things that we are doing right now, almost, you know, effortlessly. I mean, right now, what people think of like AI robots, which is not the movie, but like the actual vacuum cleaner. That's a very simple example of when AI meets robots. And a lot of houses around the world are now using this AI robots, vacuum cleaner, which just moves around the house on a regular basis and cleans things. So just imagine that thing, not just apply to a vacuum cleaner, but to almost everything else, whether it being I don't know those who let's say, clean the trash, basically, around the world, let's let's just say those who are, I mean, think of like very menial tasks that we think of like humans to be done. Obviously think about, you know, most almost all the drivers and pilots going out of job. And once you look at the scale at which this AI technology will affect us, you realize that the you know, the damage, if you will, will be a lot more substantial, you know, the employment and the job market than it was back in the industrial age. And other than that, of course, we have the issue of businesses who want to cut costs. So labor used to be cheap, obviously, in the beginning of the Industrial Age. But now, obviously, as you probably know, around the world, there's this trend towards increasing the minimum wage. And if you work in business, you understand that your number one job is to keep the cost as low as possible while maximizing the profit. So any entrepreneur in the future world would very much prefer to get their robotic versions of those, let's say staffs, just kind of like the iRobot vacuum cleaner, then to actually pay for a real human, because that probably will cost a lot less than we will know a lot more reliable because robots don't need sick leaves that don't get pregnant. And often that they don't complain so much, basically, right? I don't know, maybe someday robots will get pregnant. But until then after for now, be relaxed, but it's not going to occur. But the fact of the matter is, this is occurring right now. And for that very reason, we have to be prepared. Now while I do want to raise the awareness of our listeners and to make them a little bit cautious. I also want to say that there's a good side. And the good side is that while AI can replace a lot of our jobs, there are ways that we you know, are listeners can actually prepare themselves for that world to make sure that they are not going to be the first who will lose their jobs, they will actually more time to think of other ways to take their lives to a whole new level. And in one of my latest posts, I typed out the importance of mastering a specific subject a very high level, because that will then prepare you to deal with the future marketplaces where, you know, average skill and average levels of basically accountabilities can be easily replaced by AI, whereas more basically, advanced and masterful times performance will not be as easily replaceable, let's say compared to the average person.   Pouya LJ  15:36 Right? Well, that's true for the most part. I mean, I think it really depends on what is the area you're mastering, like if it's chess? Not really, right. Well, I do chess as a leisure.   Dan  15:48 My any Some even right now, I guess, this is not like about AI. I think like, all the top chess master players right now, they have all lost, I guess, probably say, like, IBM or something, I'm guessing.   Pouya LJ  15:59 Exactly. But yeah, that's specifically my point. And so it makes it very dependent on the field as well, I think I completely agree with you. So the degree of mastery definitely matters. But also the field can matter. And it's very difficult to predict what fields are going to be impact, I mean, some are easier to predict, some are not based on the technological advancements we have so far. But generally speaking, things that are more nuanced, are much harder to you know, teach in machine to deal with, like, chess is certainly a, you know, a tasking, job. But the strategy in chess is basically because of limitation, our limitations of imagining free moves, for what few moves ahead, right? Like, the whole thing is that you anticipate, there are different things I can do. And each of them will have, you will have, be able to see a few steps ahead, if I do this, the opponent will do that, then I'll do this. Right. So there's a degree of anticipation that a machine clearly because of the memory of has a can, and the fast, how fast it moves, everything it can actually do all of those steps ahead of actually playing get in its memory, and decide which is the best move to, to success. So that is certainly the the nuance is very limited. However, if you're dealing with other humans, like it's a management position, perhaps I mean, you can say that decision making can be automated very easily. But no.   Dan  17:53 See, that's the issue. Because we don't when we think of AI, we think about like, I don't know, things moving around, and just, you know, making certain codes to do this and do that. Because AI isn't just about, you know, those type of tasks that we habitually associated with, like, you know, robotics and computer science. I mean, Ai, have you ever heard about, like, there's there right now pages on social media, featuring poetry and quotes made by AI. Now, I don't know if you've ever read one of these. But at first you think like, there's this, you know, crazy philosophers making some random stuff. But ironically, at its current level, which is almost its infancy right now, we're seeing that AI can now come up with arts and philosophy and quotations. So obviously making decisions probably, and that's my problem, because we think that is all about, you know, just the the drivers and the pilots. No, man, what if the AI becomes this CEO of a company? What if you hire top managers, without hiring any real person, what if you literally subscribe to a management, for example, or managerial AI by the future IBM's. And they literally you subscribe at a, you know, literally fraction of the cost of hiring a, an experienced, let's say, top manager, which, which could cost the company, you know, millions of dollars per year in salary, you with a fraction of the cost, you can actually get the AI to use big data and make and who's always online to make literally the kind of decisions that almost no, basically a top manager could make. We're talking about that type of shift, not just, you know, we use AI, will it but just imagine that a company has shareholders and all the managers who are making the decisions are not real people. They're AI and algorithms that are making those decisions for the company.   Pouya LJ  19:38 Yeah, that's exactly correct. And that makes it very difficult to, you know, actually anticipate what field to go to. So that's what I subscribe to one of the best best advices ever heard on this subject. And that is, you know what, nobody knows truly. What fields are going to be more effective, probably most are going to be very much effective. Maybe some more, some less. At the end of the day, the the the advice that I heard is that see what you are interested in are like to do, don't think too much about these things. I mean, think about it to a degree, if you can anticipate it, of course, you want to submit it. But at the end of the day, there is a huge amount of ambiguity and what is going to be happening to any of these fields in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, whatever have you time. And the advice is to the point, yes, find the field of your interest, have fields of your interest, follow your passion, as you mentioned, to the mastery, and try to keep up with the technology and how it's improving, transforming. And make sure you're not obsolete, as best as you can. So at the end of the day, we will need to be students of this, you know, field not to be researchers, but at least follow them and see what is happening and what are the shifts you can give to yourself and your own field. So you're more compatible with this new era and less obsolete?   Dan  21:18 I agree completely, definitely. Because I mean, it's really a matter of time before the way we do things right now will go completely Absolutely. I mean, just take a look at how we did banking, in the 1950s and 60s. And but today, almost all the skills and abilities that have banker in the 1960s. Let's go back to New York in 1960 and 1970. At that time, a typical New York banker would have had to have a lot of skills, including how to know the right clients, how to know to whom they should be you, for example, cash, the cheque and to whom you will not cash the check. I mean, how will you interact with the customers? What skills do you how to type properly using your typewriter to do those things took all those things. So almost all those skills right now are pretty much made obsolete, basically. And now, thanks to online banking, I don't know about the last time you went to a bank projects. But the last time I went to a bank was just because I had to physically be present to basically change my master and Visa card because they got expired after three years. And beyond that, there's pretty much no need for me to go to any bank at all. And just that's just one example, obviously. But once you take that trend, you realize that of course, this is going to go up to a very, you know, at a level where perhaps a lot of things we are now doing today might be completely obsolete. But then again, while I say that still, technology needs time to grow and expand, and that is why I mean, while we cannot perhaps avoid the inevitable, we could perhaps at least prolong it. And let's just at least those of us who are in our, let's say, mid 20s and early 30s, a chance to last probably as the last maybe generation who will go unscathed with all of this. And by the time that AI really takes over, probably we're already retired. But still, we need to teach the younger generation some skills to prepare themselves. And that's why we believe that being able to, first of all, making sure that our focus is as much about humans as it is about a skill because I really believe that almost all skills that are fully logical in nature and that don't involve humans. certain skills that could easily be automated are the first to go, obviously. And but the more human touch we add to any career path, whether it's me as a lawyer, you can no longer rely on just your knowledge of the law. Because once we have legal advisors AI as a eyes, there's no need for I mean, all your nose means nothing because they have direct access millisecond, right. But what if you focus on mastering law? As somebody who knows how to deal with people and clients? Well, what if you focus on the human aspect of legal practice, that will give you a huge edge? In case I don't know, 15 years from now, you've had to see major lawyers leaving basically a law firm, because there's no job for them available. Right. So whether it is I don't know, as a teacher educator, if you focus on the human element, whether it is in business and finance, whether it is in running early, you know, for example, properties around the world, if you try to focus more on how will you satisfy your guests and hyper generate, you know, more positive reviews. So ultimately, what I'm saying is by trying to focus on mastering, especially the human elements of what you do, probably you can actually prolong the inevitable and remain unplayable for the majority of your adult life. That's, of course, assuming that AI remains at its current growth, and we've not seen a major exponential change, I don't know 10 years from now.   Pouya LJ  24:40 Right? No, that that's absolutely good advice, I think. And, you know, at the end of the day, there's a huge amount of ambiguity and less, but that's just part of it. We have to learn how to cope with it best, of course, and these are all good advice. Sure,   Dan  24:54 sure. But I don't know what's going to happen. So let's, I mean, let's talk about our own field. So I don't know what's what's going to happen? Do you think? So let's have a few fields that we know very well. The fields of education, the fields, for example, science, because I know you're a scientist, entrepreneurship, running a business, real estate, and basically, investments. What do you think people in these fields should do to somehow prepare themselves for that inevitable?   Pouya LJ  25:22 Yeah, I think so. So first, let me narrow it down to science, first and foremost, because that is the area that it's actually been very helpful this these tools that currently exists at least, and enhance the ability of the scientist or researchers or engineers to create things or, for example, this simple example is how much AI has been used in the medical industry, while industry I don't know in medicine in general, trying to find different pathogens and whatnot. So it is all very important to consider. There's also a degree of research going into a eyes generating science, meaning coming up with your own trying them and approving them. Now, that is, that seems to be to the degree that I'm not closely following that research. But to the degree that I understand it, it seems to be proving tasking and difficult, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. So my guess is that it's just a guess. So who knows, but my guess is that you will be a very, very valuable tool to human scientists. At the first stage, it becomes extremely important and maybe a part of their, their lives, but nothing is, you know, certain we don't we just simply don't know and, and make any hope is, the hope is that these tools can help us solve the greater and more difficult questions of our times, we were talking about COVID, how much uncertainty there is about this simple disease that we think we got a grasp on these things. But we simply that it one thing it showed us is that we just don't, we just don't know. So well, about so many of these things. So. So yeah, that's, that's how I see that science. I don't know, if you want to talk about fields related to finance and management?   Dan  27:14 Well, first of all, I should finance I think that's the one thing that I'm very concerned about. Because the field of finance has, it's pretty much about having information. And obviously, there is going to always be an advantage to a an AI that is capable of running all sorts of diagnostics and prognostics, and all those things imagining the possible yields of different investments. So because I know that there is a firm near city right now that has invested more than one and a half billion dollars, just to increase the optic speed of their internet connection, so that by like almost a one or two seconds, and that has given this, you know, hedge fund a huge advantage. If, if two extra seconds and you know, faster processing is going to give you that advantage. Imagine what will AI do to finance and investments just really, somehow makes me sometimes even disturbed about this matter. The other issue, of course, is the issue of business. What if AI, which is a level where we can actually hire AI as those who make decisions for deciding what items to sell. I mean, right now, one of the common ways that a lot of unpresentable are making money is through what we call arbitrage. So buy low in one place, or market or in one situation sell high somewhere else. But one of the biggest challenges of making this work is to know which products to sell, and to how to somehow direct them. What if an AI is capable of finding the right targeted advertising for the clients using Facebook, again, all real time by analyzing and getting all the feedback from the big data, and then decide to sell this, you know, for example, you know, this ad to this type of demographics and to boost you know, the profit of one company. So, when you think about what AI can do to business and finance, it's just it almost pretty much can render any human business person almost out of this business. So that is why I think try to focus so much on learning how to do these things well yourself now, and keep up pace with the changes and trends probably can help us a little bit in this regard. And as you mentioned, education we go through this philosophy pretty well, was definitely those were a lot of changes. Because as information is already right now we're seeing you know, you can just find any information just with Google. So almost all knowledge workers will be facing with dramatic problems because now their knowledge that they have and acquired yesterday could be obsolete today. And AI knows about this, but you don't. And this could actually make a lot of educators also almost somehow rendered obsolete because now we can use AI as its own means of tutoring and teaching and educating. Even as you mentioned generating research, you know, at a university level or conducting, for example, other types of scientific work. So these Things were talking like a major disruptions. But then again, as you mentioned yourself, as of now, they still have faced with a lot of difficulties. And most of this backlog we have right now is still a subject to, you know, science fiction. But also, this is just like most things that were science fiction, but are now true today, things like your your cell phone, and all those things may be here talking to you in Canada. So this, all these it's just a matter of time, which is why we can still prepare ourselves for, you know, a very fulfilling career if we commit to complete excellence, and to really do our best to stay up to date and to basically try our best to remain focused on what we're doing.   Pouya LJ  30:40 Yeah, that's absolutely correct. And great points, great points. Now we're coming to the end of the show, and both of us have a hard stop in a couple of minutes. So is there anything I mean, obviously, we're going to talk about this subject more and more in the future. without a shadow of a doubt, it's a very important subject for the future of humanity, of course. But for the for this lesson, for the sake of this episode, what we talked about, is there anything you want to add on at the end of our show?   Dan  31:04 Well, first of all, it's great to see you and talk to you put yourself in a while. And it was a great discussion so far. And as we discussed, AI is here. And while as of now, it is still at a stage where we can easily beat it. Just wait, I don't know, based on what I've heard so far, and what my own estimations just wait about 15 or so years, until you see how the AI technology will be somehow going to disrupt almost all industries, including those we used to think they belong and are fully downloaded by humans. And for that reason, I believe that as we discussed earlier, it's best to remain optimistic. I mean, all oh my gosh, what's the point, Dan? Listen, Dad, I just I just listened to Pouyjix and Dan on this podcast, and they say there's no Why should I go to college? Why should I get a job man is gonna do everything. I just want to stay home smoke pot and play fortnight. So that is not the answer. Obviously, you want to actually take this seriously and somehow redouble your efforts to try to obtain as much mastery in any field that you really wish to do in order to prepare yourself for that future and marketplace.   Pouya LJ  32:15 Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I agree the optimism point is very important. You don't want to give into that. Those like there's obviously all of these talking has talked about this the subjects, yes, it's important to pay attention. Yes, it's important to, you know, discuss these things. But it doesn't mean that we have to be panicked by them and lose faith in the I remember that last episode, you were talking about surviving and thriving and the, you know, economy, same thing. You want to remain optimistic at the heart of all of this. That makes a lot of times she will. Absolutely and everyone. Appreciate it. And thank you, Dan, for joining us once more.   Dan  32:53 My pleasure, buddy. I really enjoyed it.   Pouya LJ  32:55 Awesome. Thank you very much. It was a it was a good episode. I hope you enjoyed it as well. You're URLs, please let us know if there's anything specific, specifically that you want us to talk about. You can reach out to me then on social media, you know how to do that it's in the show notes as well. or leaving comments definitely would like reviews and help us grow until later episode.

When was the last time you knew what you had to do but could not get yourself to do it? You probably felt bad about continuing to postpone the task not knowing how on earth you could ever get it done! In this short program you will learn how to put an end to that feeling once and for all using the five minute rule! 

Remote work is here to stay long after the masks are gone along with the pandemic associated with it. In this episode Daniel and Pouya discuss the pros and cons of remote work as a permanent option for both employees and employers and offer their thoughts on how the process could be streamlined and made more productive.     Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS remote, home, industry, environment, employers, work, employees, literally, upper body, pandemic, online, office, hear, lead, certain industries, necessarily, mentioned, throughput, point, programmer SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:08 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of BTP podcast joined as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, buddy? And my buddy   Dan  00:15 has one, how are you guess what it is the last day of the holiday for everyone, including those living in basically predominantly orthodox regions like Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, and so many other countries, although I'm not sure if those those guys are Christians to ultimately, it's the end of all holidays. So if right now, you are not planning for some you know, going to work, chances are you're unemployed, because the pandemic, and therefore I'm really, really sorry to hear that.   Pouya LJ  00:43 That's true. That is a sad, sad reality of their current situation. And speaking of work, that's actually what we're going to talk about, but not just work, the future of work, which is, is the remote the future of work? Is that that's the main question. We were trying to ask him broadly, like, do you want to give your broad opinion? And then we delve into details after that?   Dan  01:03 Awesome very well, well, first of all, I do believe that the future of work is indeed remote. And the answer is very simple, because now we are already doing it at much lower costs. And then you have the governments who are going to incentivize this whole thing to protect the environment. So if you're an employer, you say, Well, I don't have to pay for the office buildings, or I can pay less, I can, I can hire fewer people. So I can actually pay for a smaller office hire fewer on site, and at the same time, the government is going to incentivize me to pay less in taxes. So why the heck not, let's try to do that actually, unless go for remote work. For that reason, I do believe that, ultimately, remote work is the future of the work, because it will be financially, basically practical. And at the same time, it is also going to lead to a better, you know, in revenue protection, which is definitely going to be important for most governments. So if the government's are going to lead people towards that direction, obviously, that will be the direction because nowadays, it's quite acceptable. I mean, if you remember, 510 20 years ago, this whole thing didn't even make sense, right? You you prove you did work, when you read the office, or you're the client, or if you wanted to set up a meeting on Skype or call, it oftentimes was a preparatory kind of meeting. So they actually set the real meeting later on meet the client in person, because it was kind of like, like a low value kind of behavior, if you did not want to show up like what there's something wrong with you want to steal my money or something or use like something cheating. So for that reason, the fact that this is now a complete norm, we are going to see a major increase in remote work, because now almost all companies around the world have tried it, they have gotten results out of it. And it's now officially a part of the culture, I guess. And for that reason, I believe it is going to be indeed the future of basically work for most of us.   Pouya LJ  02:53 No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And I think there was a taboo prior to the pandemic about this remote work from all sides, not just employers with employees to thinking that you know what, it's not it's, I'm going to lose productivity. And that might have been true without prior proper preparation. And maybe in the beginning, people were thinking, yeah, this is not working, I'm working from a bit bed, and this is not. And then after they saw that, okay, they have to figure something out, set up the proper, you know, proper environment for themselves to work, maybe, I don't know, if a person who has kids now, that's annoying, because maybe that, you know, schools are closed, and you have to keep the kids to yourself, but if the environment is viable, I think personally, I experienced in many fields, it actually works out pretty great. Now I do teaching too. Now, that is not the best environment for online teaching. There's a there's, there's some degree to some barriers coming on, because of the lack of, you know, being in the same room physically together, perhaps, but generally speaking, in many of the cases, it does work, and perhaps there can be, you know, a hybrid of these two, okay.   Dan  03:59 That's the best I mean, because I really still believe if you make everyone work remotely, because I know a fair share of like programmers among my contacts. And I mean, their lifestyle is not necessarily going to be even acceptable by a lot of people who are more on the extroverted side, because it can be almost depressing. So I think a hybrid approach is probably a far better approach. Because in that situation, you kind of like spend, I don't know, two or three days at the office, and four days at home, and that way, of course, including the weekends, and that probably is going to be far more effective. Because you mentioned you know, working basically, and you're on your bed, well, there are a lot of things I want to do on my bed working is not one of them. Because I think I don't know, first of all, it's going to be very hygiene because you should probably see my bed. And secondly, it's going to lead to you know, from my point of view now, lack of focus because for me, the bad is a place where I do only one of two things and there's no other I mean like mentally that is there's an association basically with sleeping And the other type of sleeping, but so if you're, let's say, I don't know, bring your laptop and you're talking in a place that you bang your wife or girlfriend, I don't know, for me personally, that's not going to work out pretty well. Because it's going to create a lot of problems in terms of, you know, your mental Association. However, I do like the idea of working basically at home, if you create and designate a home office area, and if your home is small, it can, you know, allocate one entire room to your work, you can still assign a specific location in your home to, you know, basically work office, because there really is a psychological factor here. Because when you go to the office, you know, your brain has linked that environment to work. So your body is different, you know, acting differently, your mind and your focus is focused on different things and if you are in your bedroom, so even for those who work at home, they're definitely going to actually learn to come up with new ways to get ready to work at home efficiently. And I think that will then lead to creating a whole new industry that basically caters to you know, work at home and remote work, plus a lot of the training required for the staff to know how to make the most of their time at home, how to avoid distractions, and now is for someone reading a book called and distractible. And it talks about how, you know all the little steps required to make, you know, homework efficient. It's not that easy projects to work at home efficient, because it's so much easier to get distracted at home. And more apparently, there's less degree of basically control by the employers. Because you could say like, yeah, I'm online, I'm working. But you're not. I mean, as I've talked to a lot of my friends who have kids, and now almost all of them are sitting online. And I mean, you got to see what the mess that thing is man, like literally just keep things online. They pretend they're online, but they're not. Or they're looking at a screen with the camera and playing fortnight in the background. True story. By the way, I'm not just one of my, you know, friends, son just does this. But of course, if you are the teacher of that person, don't don't hate him. He's not the only one who's playing fortnight while looking at the webcam pretty like, Oh, yeah, great lesson. So for that reason, I believe there's going to be the need for a reform in the way we approach work, and extensive training and education for those who would like to work at home, both for the employers and the employees.   Pouya LJ  07:19 Really, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Because yes, there are, you know, workarounds that you can start slacking and still not get penalized, perhaps, but then you can, you know, change how you're looking at. So for example, in a current situation, you're just, if, as a manager, office manager, whatever your method of you know, finding out if your employee is actually working or not, is just by looking at them. Maybe that's not the best approach anyways, because a lot of people don't respond to that. So maybe you want to look at their throughput, are they actually providing like doing the things that they're supposed to do? Maybe Miss metrically? Or, or just generally speaking? That's why perhaps in you know, software environment, like software development, it is much easier to actually assess these things. Because at the end of the day, you either push your code or you don't, you have to complete your project or you don't so it's so much easier to, you know, monitor those performances, wherever you are, you can be in Bahamas, I don't give a crap. As long as you do your work. Right. You know, so So yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it's very industry dependent, perhaps hospitalities is not the best to be remote. That's the by nature, right? So   Dan  08:25 well, believe it or not, nowadays, we have seen almost all sorts of businesses going online. Sure, right. Having a much stronger online presence, even license. Nowadays, I've heard of like restaurants that are fully conducting things online, like you literally see the shift, so they send you the food, and then you'll log in with zoom, and you'll watch the chef cook things in front of you explaining things. So I mean, this is definitely going to affect even the kind of industry thought is almost impossible for it to be remote. But obviously, you're right, there are certain industries where that cannot necessarily work out well. But having, you know, experienced almost every business, pretty much move online or at least enhanced their online presence. I guess there's going to be a far more potential for remote work in almost all industries. To a certain degree, of course.   Pouya LJ  09:14 Yeah. And I couldn't agree more. And yes, my my point is that yes, some some, some industries are more acceptance and actually encouraging of remote work some less so. But it doesn't mean that they cannot look to industries that are less inclined to do remote work are not even possible for them. It doesn't mean that they cannot enhance their abilities. So for example, when even you went to the restaurant individually, like in person, you wouldn't get to see the chef necessarily some of them have open concept kitchens, but generally speaking, you wouldn't, right. So. So maybe that could be even for in person like that zoom or, you know, video stream can be on your table as well so you can anticipate your freaking food and get more hungry and hungrier.   Dan  09:57 That's possible to sell things I guess. Right, so   Pouya LJ  10:01 so I think it sparked a big, big, the whole, you know, pandemic and because circumstance sparked a big push for creativity in all of this, and which is a good thing, that's, that's the positive that can come out of all of this negative, I suppose. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.   Dan  10:17 I agree completely. Although let's be honest, personally, as an extrovert, who really loves going out, I really prefer, you know, a hybrid approach as you put it out yourself, because you cannot necessarily, from my point of view, go go on the either extremes, because if all work move fully online and fully remote, then yeah, this might literally change the way we approach work. And this could lead to its own problems. I mean, for example, now, social media is, you know, pretty much commonplace, everybody's on some sort of, you know, social media platform. And it is now the norm. So if you don't have a social media account, now you're a weirdo, like, 10 years ago, if you didn't have I don't know, Facebook, or Twitter, I don't know, let's say Instagram, or I don't know, something like that, you would have been quite okay. I mean, that was not like a necessity. So 10 years ago, many of my friends did not have I, myself was not basically on any Facebook platform 10 years ago. But nowadays, if someone is not on social media, you're like, dude, either you are weird, or you're cheating on somebody, and you don't want them to know about it. Like, it's just so like now a part of life. But at the same time, it's now proven that the more time we spend social media to higher our chances of you know, suffering from depression. So with every change comes a certain downturns and drawbacks that we have to deal with remote work has its own set of problems, it's going to challenge their problems to the employers, how are they going to be able to, you know, observe their employees in action? And how are they going to be able to judge and assess their performance to be able to, you know, handle this is just a result of deliver? How about in terms of safety and security, if you're working remotely, could this not easily be hacked, and then be used by others. There are many other, you know, facets when it comes to business and work in this situation that has to be literally addressed, which as I mentioned earlier, will lead to a whole new industry that offers services that, you know, somehow makes this whole process easier. And above all, as I mentioned earlier, it's really about us, are we the kind of basically workers who can actually work with discipline and regularity at home, or as you put it out, you're on your bed, and you're a programmer, and you start programming, and then the bag, you know, this whole bed reminds you of your last night and you start thinking like, that was very nice, and you look around and your wife lets her eyes and boom, before you know it, you're not you know, you're not making any basically coats, you're making babies. And that's not a good idea, because you're wanting to be working at that time, and not doing something weird. So for that reason, although not not not that we do not have cases of making babies at the office environment, as unfortunately, you've probably heard a lot, especially among the Wall Street staff members. But the point is you want basically to create the right education available for those who can actually work efficiently because my biggest issue with remote work is does it really deliver the same time? Yes, it saves on costs. Yes, it's a you know, protects our environment. But does it really deliver the same type of experience for both the clients and those who do the work? Or does it reduce the quality? And that for me is a big challenge.   Pouya LJ  13:21 That's a fair point. I think I think you're right on obviously, you want to have the same throughput you want their employer employees to you know, work as well. Maybe even better, perhaps if you can, but yes, you're absolutely right, that comes with a degree of education on both parts from the employers to employees all parties included even clients perhaps so that education doesn't have to be classroom setting necessarily, although it can be but culturally you know, as time passes, we learn how for example, if you're, if you don't have a good microphone and get a good headset for it, for instance, I mean, that could be one simple thing so we don't have to hear the sirens in the background whatever so I mean obviously there are you know, improvements that are going to be made in time and we can accelerate that by you know, organized education of some sorts from I'm right   Dan  14:06 now thinking about like changing fashion industry of those upper body only suits where you can literally wear your hands for anything and have like a suit like you're going to see like major changes like just imagine like the upper body only section like if you want to buy the clothes we haven't offered by the only for remote workers like literally and like they create this pajamas that are very comfy down below and like you will see a major shift in terms of how it affects every facet of and you know, every industry   Pouya LJ  14:34 I haven't been in by the way a pursuit only.   Dan  14:38 I mean, by the way, that's that's the patent idea. So if you want to steal the idea from us, you're gonna have to pay copyright. This is now any any any basically seller who would like to sell upper body only clothing must get a patent and recommendation basically from sorry guys just the way it is.   Pouya LJ  14:54 That's just the way this you know, intellectual property. It's not   Dan  14:58 It's not an upper body. Only suits and clothing, basically, work is for work is definitely a beyond the present podcast patent from now on.   Pouya LJ  15:08 No doubt, no doubt. No. But joking aside, I think I think you're absolutely right. It does make it does affect every single industry in the, in various different ways. Obviously some industries more so than others. But generally so for example, as you were mentioning, perhaps security could be more challenging because now you're, although we were always working on computers and networks, and they were all connected to the internet, but now you're transmitting everything through the internet. So maybe it's a little bit more challenging in that sense, maybe a lot more challenging, actually. So yes, of course, it's gonna affect everything. And perhaps in many cases, for the better, like, we have to improve our ways of living. And usually, it is hard to leave the status quo until you're really pushed out of it. We were, unfortunately by satins. And And typically, they are by sad incidences, so I don't I don't disagree with you. Now we discuss the pros and cons. However, now I want, we're coming to the end of the show, obviously, feel free to add anything that we didn't talk about, to, you know, gather everything together?   Dan  16:11 Well, first of all, it was a great topic about remote work, because ultimately, we've mentioned to our listeners, that remote work is the future of work, we should not look at this as a passing trend, I will that remote work is here to stay as is already demonstrated by many companies in Silicon Valley, who have already put this as a permanent part of their, basically human resource management. So they are definitely gonna implement this already as their permanent solutions. And of course, we're gonna see this happening all across the board. However, as you mentioned, yourself, certain industries are less compatible, certain types of careers, jobs services, basically are less compatible with remote work than the you know, certain ones that are a lot more basically compatible. But that doesn't mean that no industry is going to be spared from this trend, it is going to happen all across the board, basically. And we pointed out that the fact that this is going to happen, we are going to need basically a whole new industry, that is going to cater to remote work, offering certain types of, for example, home, basically work environments, how to create like a desk, that is not going to distract you at work. So maybe creating new ways of locking the sound for coming to the you know, the home office, or a lot of training to make sure that you know, the those who are working at home are doing so basically not on their bed, but hopefully in a place that is a lot more productive, basically, and to create that, you know, a culture of productivity at home, which probably needs additional training. But then again, in terms of the benefits of this, obviously, we're going to have, we're going to see a tremendous decline in traffic worldwide, which is then going to of course, reduce the carbon emission because the less commute we do, the less carbon emission we uncovered in our carbon footprint we will leave behind. So that's going to definitely improve the overall quality of basically our environment. And obviously, there's, there's definitely gonna be a lot of financial incentives to for both employers and employees. So whether we like it or not, I'm someone who's in the middle when it comes to remote work. I don't hate it. I don't love it in particular, either. But then again, even if you're like me, and you tend to be more on the social extroverted side, and you'd like to see a lot of people around, obviously, you still have to get used to this, you know, new way a new approach to work, because in the end, remote work is here to stay whether you like it or not.   Pouya LJ  18:37 Well said and I couldn't agree more, I think, one way or another, we're gonna see this more and more in the future, and perhaps sort of better. Again, I really do believe that. And thank you again, Dan, for joining us today. discuss this topic. And thank you. Yeah, it was amazing. And thank you everybody for listening in tuning in. And leave your comments. Leave your suggestions if you have any, and until later episode. Have a good one.

As we enter the year  2021 we do so with many lessons learned during the pandemic. In this episode Daniel and Pouya discuss what they learned from the year that went so that we could set the right tone for the year ahead.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS pandemic, people, life, year, personally, importantly, realize, situation, day, terms, pretty, eye opener, social, attention, panic, travel, colonoscopy, bit, pay, world SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, and welcome back ladies and gentlemen to yet another edition of PTV podcast in the year 2021. Join as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, buddy?   Dan  00:19 And man, buddy, how's it going? Happy New Year, it's great to talk to you. Now, of course, we just celebrated the new year, a couple of days ago. And it was super wonderful because personally for me, the new year is a big deal, because it's the probably the most important year when it comes to goal setting. As you probably know, I'm crazy about goal setting. So it's been a great year, despite all the limitations, the pandemic, which has made traveling or Party, which both of which I love a lot, a lot harder, unfortunately, still, we have to go through this. And fortunately, I managed to enjoy the you know, the New Year celebration, although on a much smaller scale, basically, to somehow make sure that I follow the health guidelines and do not end up you know, perhaps spreading the virus or something like this. But generally speaking, despite all the challenges, pretty happy to be here with you for the you know, our first less competition of the year 2021. So couldn't be more excited. Life is great, man. How about you? How is how's life basically, on your end?   Pouya LJ  01:18 Yeah, things are concerning everything things are going well, I think we have turned a new leaf by turning the page turning the chapter on to a new year, obviously, we still are having the struggles of COVID, whether directly or indirectly, ahead of us. I mean, not just me, everybody, really, but I think I think at least mentally, in terms of mindset, at least we're turning into a new year. So why not change our mindsets to? Would you? Would you agree with that?   Dan  01:49 Pretty good, pretty good?   01:50 Yeah, of course,   Dan  01:51 it's pretty good. And I don't know about the atmosphere, of course. But generally, in this situation, we gotta somehow change ourselves a little bit, although I'm not a fan of like, complete, like reprogramming our entire brain because it's not going to last forever, man. But we could change our way of thinking the way that we can take advantage the situation and not panic and wait it out until the storm passes.   Pouya LJ  02:13 know precisely that. And that is basically what I was trying to get at. Because the past year, I mean, in 2020, basically, everybody suffered a lot. And we experienced a lot of uncertainties on top of other, you know, stuff that were really annoying, and perhaps often for many people, outright upsetting, losing loved ones or whatever. So. So in that sense, I feel like coming to a new year, personally, I want to take a little bit of a more of a positive approach. Of course, it's not done with but as you mentioned, it will be at some point. And maybe for the better part of this year, we'll still deal with it, to some extent, all of us, but, you know, in terms of our mindset, I personally want to take a more, you know, assertive, proactive and positive approach to this year versus reactive, as the circumstances required, perhaps in 2020, which I was much reacting to the news or situation or the new guidelines and whatnot. So this time, this time around I this is this is at least my perspective, personally, I don't know about you, how are you dealing with the new year?   Dan  03:25 Well, first of all, I generally, as you mentioned yourself, being reactive is never a good thing, whether it is a bad situation or a good one. So as you pointed out, the best approach is to get ourselves out of that reactive mode. I mean, I personally don't think that panicking, or being concerned about all the latest things that are especially portrayed in the media is a good thing. Because the media thrives on these things, they would love to make things look so dangerous. And the worst thing is going to happen, because that's going to you know, make your eyes fixated on what they're, you know, showing that to people. So for that reason, generally speaking, I'm not a fan of even following you so much, except perhaps from very reliable sources. For example, Dr. Fauci is one of those. But in terms of the media and what they said, I was not necessarily paying so much tension anyway, in that regard, and of course, other than that, it is the fact that we've kind of gotten used to it. And as you put it out yourself, even though we're going to be spending, at least based upon the European estimation, at least, until summertime, in the same quarantine mode, if you will, or social distancing. Still, that leaves at least a couple of months, and I'm pretty darn sure that we're going to celebrate our next new year in a very, very different atmosphere and mood than then we did basically this year. So for that reason, I remain hopeful and optimistic. And obviously, I mean, some people were just reacting to the crisis. What what I was doing your in 2020 was how can I make the most of this time? That was the question that I asked myself every single day because I do believe that when one door gets closed, Other gets open. And one man's misery is one man's portion. And the other most important one, of course, is when life gives you, when all life gives you as lemons, try to make lemonade. And you should, we should believe that my vitamin C, basically, nutrition this year was pretty high, because all we got was, you know, basically were lemons. So I'm right now done with vitamin C. But quite frankly, that's exactly what I did. So I really believe that this pandemic was a great chance, at least for me personally, because it gave me a chance to really look deep into myself in basically social life, and what we can do with or without these things. But more importantly, because I'm very much interested in the concept of leadership, it actually allowed me to take a closer look at how some of the best leaders around the world tackle this issue and how they basically go about doing this as the primary crisis continues. Because for me, that was like the ultimate learning school the the ultimate School of leadership, if you will, both personally, I mean, how do you manage being in this crisis? Do you panic? Do you lose hope? What would you do if you realize that I don't know your restaurant, your gym, some other place going to be close? And if you are working there, you're gonna lose your job? Are you gonna panic? Or are you going to perhaps find out of the way, and more importantly, it made me think a lot about the future of humanity, which will heavily rely on technologies to reduce carbon emissions or reduce commuting around as somebody who is, you know, a, you know, constantly, basically, on the movement, you know, somebody who likes to travel lives, it actually makes me question a lot of those things I used to do, like, isn't really necessary to travel, for example, it is the number of times per year or because you like reduce it a little bit. And it was a very educational experience. Overall, of course, I'm not gonna deny the fact that it was hard as most tough love and tough educational situations generally are. But in this situation, I realized what it really means to deal with all the situations that somehow push your life out of control. And not only not panic, but to make the most of it. So, and a couple of my businesses, actually the, you know, our revenue went up during the pandemic, because we took advantage of the online technology and online communication, and it simultaneously actually cut back our costs, in terms of traveling flights, going to exhibitions, cost of hotels, and so on, because nowadays, basically, almost everything is done via zoom or online. So generally speaking, for me, it was a combination of difficulty, as well as achievement. But more importantly, it was perhaps one of the most educational experiences of my life. Because for me, because, you know, our generation, we haven't seen, you know, a very dramatic shift in the way people live their lives. I mean, my basically, grandparents had experienced World War Two. So for them, they saw what it feels like to be in a world that is normal, and then suddenly everything changes, right. But our generation of millennials, we never had this, you know, this experience, we never experienced a major, you know, war, whenever experienced, perhaps major famine or other issues. So this COVID-19 pandemic was kind of like the world war two of the millennials, and they saw what it feels like when the entire world order collapses, and everything changes. And so if you look at that, as a once in a lifetime experience, as you know, over to basically was for our grandparents, it's kind of on the same scale, and that it has tremendous potential for learning and self development.   Pouya LJ  08:32 Absolutely, it makes a lot of sense. And I think, I do agree with you in terms of Okay, so, there were a range of reactions from a variety of people, of course, to this whole year, if you will, in 2020. Excuse me, and yes, lots and lots of people have made so many good decisions and made actually the most of the situation maybe, maybe more than their regular here is if you will, so so of course that and that, that that is where the attitude comes into play, right? How are your attitude allows you to deal with a certain situation that is out of the ordinary, sometimes outright devastating. And, you know, learn from those devastations rather than just leave the score and nothing else. Right. So so i think i think you're right on, I think it makes a lot of sense. And I have questions a lot, a lot of things about myself personally, and the way we leave as a, you know, society as a world. Even so, so yeah, there has been definitely definitely many, many levels of, you know, education going on for me and I'm sure for a lot of other people. Although not not, not everybody saw it that way. Perhaps some just saw it as a misery but it's still like, you know, and the future retrospectively, they probably will come to see some you know, lights of education, those people who were mostly focusing Under disasters of today as well, so   Dan  10:03 and you put in a point out something about, you know, our societies, because in my life, as you probably know, I work with multiple nations and different cultures and languages, and I'm in touch pretty much with all five continents right now. And this pandemic, for me personally, as someone who is a basically a, you know, a proponent of globalism, seeing the entire world basically gets locked. And the entire international travel being basically severely hindered, not fully stopped, but severely hindered, was pretty a shocker at first, quite frankly, and more importantly, allowed me to be in touch with my contacts from around the world and see how different nations and different governments were tackling the issue. As I know, on the one hand, we had Sweden who had the most liberal approach possible, and I was in the entire time in touch with my contacts in Sweden. So how are people reacting? are they wearing masks? Are they happy? What about the death ways that I was in touch, of course, my contacts in China, the source of basically this pandemic, and how people are just, you know, going about their lives, having have already defeated basically, the pandemic, then we moved on to Europe. And unfortunately, I was very disheartened when I realized Germany, which was one of the best countries in terms of the way they handled, the pandemic went under full lockdown. Basically, in November and December, you can imagine the damage, of course, the German government offered tremendous, basically cash support for all of its citizens, and basically, business owners. But still, you would see how these developments are changing the International, basically, community. And for me, that was another level of basically education because I literally saw that leadership, culture, and the sense of unity in a nation can really help or hurt basically one's nation's quest on defeating the virus and the pandemic. So it was another layer, basically, I'm I'm pretty sure that in Canada, things probably were a lot, basically better handled than it was in the US, given the fact that we just got rid of Donald Trump. And now, hopefully, things will change. But in Canada, I'm guessing things were a lot better as people perhaps had higher trust in their government, and follow the health guidelines. But ultimately, what really matters, is just to realize that this challenge has been a source of education for almost all of us. And we could learn from that and use those lessons to make 2021, which we're in right now. A much better year.   Pouya LJ  12:34 Exactly. And that's where I wanted to get to looking back learning, you know, I mean, day to day we learn the 2020 on every day, I think I can talk about myself personally made better decisions, I'll have to deal with the new New World Order, if you will. So. So of course, it's an ongoing process, but now having this excuse of a new year to look back for over 2024 for a few minutes, and then look into the future and carry the lessons and put away the hardships perhaps as much as possible. To the interior. Now, what were your I mean, you mentioned some of them, what what were you if you if you want a bullet point that what were the top? I don't know, a few that you're taking to 2020 as our new lessons and new things you want to do in 2020 differently than you did in the past?   Dan  13:25 Well, I mean, you mean 2020 1am I right?   Pouya LJ  13:28 Oh, I'm so sorry. Yes, anyone? That's right, we're used to the ones I   Dan  13:32 got from Korea points to take 2021 basically, because I'm done with 2020. And I don't want to go back,   Pouya LJ  13:38 just don't make   Dan  13:41 one year too much. Even if there was a time machine, I'm not gonna go back 2020. Even though I love using time machines to go back to the past, not 20, I can go to 2019 or 22, but not 2020. But ultimately, from my point of view, 2020, for me, personally, was the year of looking at our values, and looking at our basically leaders for guidance, and to see how they can handle these problems in these situations that are oftentimes very tough and risky. And it also made me think about the impact that global commerce as well as basically, global community has on our very lives. So things like closing, for example, the borders isn't just going to affect the lives of those who work at the airport, or even like the airline companies. But this could have tremendous impact on a variety of industries. And as a whole, the entire economy actually come down because of this pandemic. More importantly, hischier really made me appreciate a lot of the things that I used to take for granted, mainly face to face, human contact, physical touch, and other things that we were deprived of during basically the year 2020 and we probably will still be for a couple of months if not six, seven more months and That really made me to change my priorities. And I literally made some promises, I would say that from the moment this pandemic is over, I am really going to take my social life more seriously. And I will make it less high tech and more high tech. Because that I think, for me is what a lot of us are missing. Now, being an extra that I am always looking to, you know, he around be social and to see basically people in action. For us, extroverts this crisis pose a much greater challenge than the introverts. I mean, I had a lot of friends who are introverts, it's like, man, I don't see any difference, really, I mean, except for some economic problems. And the fact that I can't travel, I see not much of a difference. I mean, I'm always social distancing in my home with my laptop, I say, Well, good for you. But that's not going to happen to all of us. So I'm guessing as somebody who is based upon my last personality test was basically set to be 99%, extroverted and 1%. introverted, which, unfortunately, is a little bit extreme. I know. And I wish it was a bit more balanced. For people like us, it was a little bit harder to, you know, deal with this aspect of social distancing, because extroverts are social by nature. So social distancing means simply stop letting do or stop being who you are. And that took a lot of getting used to, I mean, personally, for me, it took me no less than almost six, seven months just to get used to this the way things are. And even then, still, I haven't, like made basically peace with a situation, it's just that I have to go through with it, kind of like, you know, think of like going to a doctor or taking a pill or the dreaded colonoscopy. So it's kind of like that. But in this particular case, it's a rather two long colonoscopy. I mean, just imagine a colonoscopy that lasts for, I don't know, one and a half, two years, that'll be a very, very painful colonoscopy ambition, but it is really like that, in that, for me, personally, I am definitely going to take my social life a lot more seriously. I did spend a lot of time in the past years at work. And I would, because you know, to be productive, so I would tend to postpone a lot of, for example, social events, for the weekend times, or other places where I could, you know, be more productive at work. So I'm definitely gonna take my, you know, social life a lot more seriously, at this pandemic, probably a little bit too aggressively at first, and it is quite normal. But other than that, I also learned a very great lesson about what we as a species really need. I mean, we talked with this URL in one of our you know, very first programs you want in order, you know, first podcast is that like, all we need the things that we need right now like water, basically shelter and internet connection, something like this. I remember you said that. So it made me realize that not only internet and online technologies are an absolute necessities these days. But more importantly, a lot of the things we thought we needed, were not really needs, but preferences. I mean, you don't necessarily have to burn a lot of gas to go to the you know, movie theater, you really can enjoy chilling with Netflix at home, you don't really have to perhaps go to you know, spend hours in traffic every day to go to workplace, it is possible to conduct a lot of meetings online on zoom, or Skype or other online basically platforms without a lot of time wasted and commuting, basically. And of course, as somebody who's a frequent flyer, I also thought a lot about my, you know, priorities as somebody who flies in different countries, frequently on how important really it is, and how is it possible to reduce the frequency of basically flights in order to, you know, perhaps contribute a little bit to our basically planet in terms of carbon emissions, and so on. So those aspects of it actually taught me a lot about the fact that, really, a lot of the things we thought we needed, we don't need and the only thing that I realized that I really needed during this time. And a lot of the times capitalism does not want us to know, was human touch and human contact. And I think that's the one that we are not taught, we've taught, we've been taught a lot about spending money on a lot of brands, and we thinking or spending a lot of money, you know, for things we don't really need. While it you know, perhaps ignoring the most important thing that's human touch in contact. So for me, that really made me realize that the things that we really need are oftentimes the cheapest things that are always available. And the things that we think we need, and oftentimes, basically, carrying a heavy price tag are rarely the things that we truly need. So that for me was like a, you know, an eye opener basically to realize what really needs to have needs and have the Met and not confusing once with needs basically. And for me personally, that was a very big deal, because it allows me to then go ahead and somehow change my priorities in life in terms of how I should spend my money, how it should work, and how it should connect with who Around the risk level, of course, was a very great lesson. And the final one was about the difference that, you know, wealth and money can really make, I think, during this pandemic, the rich, the middle class, the lower middle class and the poor, they all pretty much had a similar lifestyle, and that a lot of the things that were not available to basically the poor people, were also not available now, for anybody else because of the limitations. So yes, you could no longer enjoy, I don't know, easily going to a golf club, or going to a, you know, a very cool place or a venue to chill. And those things made me think a lot about wealth gap in our society, and how this has increased so much, and how it's possible to create a more just fair society for everybody, where the 99% do not feel that their lives are any worse than that, you know, top 1%. So this was a humbling experience for a lot of the wealthy and the ultra rich, who used to think that they could just do whatever they wanted. And then they realized doesn't matter how much cash you got on the line, or how much credit you got, if literally, a simple virus can make all of those millions and billions seem like nothing. And it would not make any difference, which maybe you know, a lot about this concept. But what it really means to have value, is money going to solve all your problems and this penalty solve that the answer is a clear No, basically. So as someone who's an entrepreneur, it was also another great eye opening moment, basically, how about you projects? What are the things that you realized in 2020? That you basically want to take with you to 2021? Yeah, I   Pouya LJ  21:39 think leaving the specifics that you mentioned, which are some of them I didn't pay attention to, but then some I did. But generally speaking, I think the whole pause in the status quo, quote, and moving to something slightly off book, if you will, because of the circumstance was definitely an eye opener, in a sense that because when you when you're going with the status quo, it's sometimes when you're just moving with it, you're not noticing, you know, the goods and Bad's appreciating the things that are, for example, you were mentioning, you know, the socializing, I never understood how much I enjoy socializing with people in person, until this hit like you're much more extroverted than I am, of course, I think that's no secret. And you already noticed that before. Now, you appreciated it more, perhaps now. But I never even noticed that I knew I like hanging out with people, but I just didn't know, in how much depth that meant for me that the lack of it is, you know, in bolding, if you will. So in that sense, I think this whole pause, as you're mentioning, was an eye opener in many, many, many aspects. And of course, people with their own perspectives are grabbing different aspects of it and paying attention to them. And it's good to hear your perspectives. And I would love to, you know, bring our audience into it, if possible, if they would like to share it in a comment form one or two sentences to you know, what was the aha moment for you? Wow, we're doing this, maybe we should do that. Or maybe we should appreciate this. Oh, likes, like the things that Dan mentioned to us. But if you had something different that you it could be it could be good for us to hear. Because I was listening to you. And I was like, Yes, I paid attention to this amazing. But also I, I listened to you. And I was like, I never paid attention to, for example, this particular thing. And I was, that's interesting. I never, for example, international traveling like airplanes and whatnot. So that was not really on my radar, because maybe perhaps I wasn't doing it as much, obviously, as much as you I didn't. So so that was a that was a very interesting epiphany that I never had, and hearing it from you was, you know, very, very interesting to hear. So yeah, if the audience are willing to do that, leave a comment with your own epiphany during 2020. But yeah, going forward, but bottom line is, yes, I want I want to pay attention to these things. And I want to be more conscious of, you know, the things that we're doing on a day to day basis, either being more appreciative of the things we have, or paying attention that there are gaps in our current way of living, that we can improve on, and not just, you know, walk by them and not pay attention to them. Because you know, if you if you're, if you're moving past the garbage bin that is filthy, every single day, it becomes easy to just start ignoring it, right. But if you're forced to look at it, then you're like, you know what we got? We got to fix this. So he's, I   Dan  24:40 think they should force you know, you're forced to look at it. We kind of lost a lot of the distraction to see, I think, yeah, one of the biggest challenges of this pandemic was that a lot of us, we were so easily engaged with the things we used to do, that we somehow could put up with a lot more because we're not so much paying a lot of attention. But this pandemic really removed all the noise. And this somehow made us pay closer attention to things we used to ignore. I mean, a lot of basically couples, unfortunately, they lost relationships during this pandemic. And that was not because of any inherent problem with a pandemic, but the fact that a lot of people just were in relationship ever, not at the very beginning quite suitable for them. But since they had a lot of things to keep themselves busy, they could easily, you know, turn a blind eye to certain things. But in a pandemic like this, almost there's no noise distributed strategy by which means the truth somehow comes out. And the truth about everybody comes out. And it brings out the truth of our leaders as well. And if you saw what it means for someone like Trump to fully lose it, because that pandemic really took out all the noise and brought out the truth and a lot of basically people in various aspects of life, basically. And I think, for us, that was a great eye opener. But at the same time, if we learn those lessons, we can apply them and make far better decisions in the future, because pandemics like this don't happen every day, which is why we should take this as a, you know, a life lesson, if you will, in order to make us better at making future decisions.   Pouya LJ  26:15 Absolutely, it makes a lot of sense. And I'm sure, again, everybody's having their own perspective, and they overlap at times. But also there are unique mindsets that are out there. And I, I would love to hear about them. Is there any final thought that before we close it? Do you want to share with our audience? Well, first   Dan  26:33 of all, once again, I would like to wish all of our listeners a happy new year. And I hope that despite all the challenges we're currently facing in the world, we are going to be getting out of this pandemic soon. Now, the earliest estimates point out to summer, but that's only in Europe. As for the US, according to the prediction, by Dr. Fauci, we are going to be living in one way or another like this, until basically next holiday season, so probably life will only get back to normal around 2021 q4. So that leaves us with three months of normalcy, probably. And until then still, life continues on its current pace, basically. And that is both reassuring and a little bit, basically disheartening. But the fact of the matter is that we could make the most of this situation. So today, we talk about what it really needs to learn from the 2020 the past, and what lessons we can learn from the year itself, as well as the pandemic that caused tremendous trouble for all of us. And more importantly, we wanted to give our listeners the hope that yes, the pandemic was here. And we went through it one year, guys, if the pandemic took almost a year, out of our lives, but a lot of us during the same period, actually managed to take our lives to a you know, far better level. But even for those who managed to benefit financially, at least from this pandemic, nobody benefited from this pandemic emotional necessarily, because we're social creatures. However, it was good enough for us to learn from it. And please do know that the way we went through 2020, we can go through the rest of the 2021 during those periods where the pandemic still has to be brought under control, because unfortunately, the pace of vaccinations are rather slower than basically intended, thanks to the I don't know, extremely difficult means of logistics for the vaccine distribution. Thank you Pfizer for having finally a great way to make it easy. That was a joke, by the way. But overall, it all depends on you know, your perspective. And hopefully, if you have the right perspective, you can go through the rest of 2021 with the same level of zest and energy and enthusiasm as as you could have gone through 2020. And hopefully, more importantly, we have to stay hopeful that this shall pass. And we will get out of this hopefully, and we will move on to a life where we can truly appreciate and just imagine the feeling that you will have, let's say, according to what Fauci said, let's say it's q4, it's 2021. It's fall season, you're getting close to your new year, holidays, next New Year holidays, and boom, just imagine you can just go wherever you want no masks on, you can talk to anybody can shake hands, or use your hands in a variety of other ways, both appropriate or inappropriate in public. And all of these things are going to simply make it more enjoyable. Just imagine this man, just imagine the joy, the world will experience one's life goes back to normal. So a lot of the things that we used to take for granted now will become like blessings, and we can actually enjoy them. So for that reason, I'm tired. First of all, I cannot wait to be in a situation where I can experience all that, basically. And secondly, I want our listeners to imagine that that day will come the day where you your social life goes back to normal. We can go wherever you want no social distancing, and we can just truly appreciate the little things. We We thought we valued but didn't really pay a lot of attention to but now we can actually really enjoy them. So for me personally, it means another year of hustle, but with hope and basically just   Pouya LJ  30:12 perfect 21 for the win and pun intended, blackjack, forget it. All right. All right. Okay, thank you then, as always for joining us.   Dan  30:24 My pleasure, buddy.   Pouya LJ  30:26 And thank you everybody for listening to this episode. Again. If you want to share your own epiphanies or any comments, please feel free to do so. until later episode. Have a good one.

We begin the year 2021 with hopes for a better future and BTP podcast is here to accompany you throughout this year. If you have not subscribed to Beyond the Present podcast then head to iTunes, Podbean, or Stitcher and press the subscribe so that you will be among the first to get instant access to all upcoming programs.   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS pandemic, year, life, stay, work, building, simply, social, podcast, great, understand, friends, social distancing, taught, zest, conquered, wonderful, energy, bright, whole new level SPEAKERS Dan   Dan  00:00 Hi, everybody, this is Val Margaret, and welcome to yet another great episode of beyond the present podcast, this one's going to be a very short one, because we have just started. The New Year, guys, the year is 2021. And we cannot wait to see all the challenges ahead. That'll be conquered, hopefully by our effort, and hard work. So guys, first of all, I want to thank you so much for being with us for one year, as we spent together discussing all the details of how to take your life to the next level and how to build a great future. And guess what, we have a lot of plans for you. In the coming year basically and beyond the president podcast team will do its very best to hopefully offer more quality programs in the coming days, weeks and months to make sure that you guys will always have your own great chances, as well as opportunities to realize your true potential. So now let's get started with one simple truth. And that is setting your New Year's resolution you guys if you're right now listening to us, you have to understand that you need to set your New Year's resolution in order to know what this year is going to bring to you. The last year unfortunately was a bit difficult, very strange and odd in many ways. However, it still taught us a lot of great lessons. But even if the whole world comes to a halt, we can travel, we can go to work, we can even touch our or shake hands with our friends and family members, we still can have a productive year. And the same thing can happen here. If we simply try to focus on what we need. And that is to take our lives to a whole new level to tell me Are you ready to take your life to a whole new level, because 2021 is definitely not going to be like 2020, we will get out of this stupid pandemic. And I promise you that 2021 will be a far better year for all of us only and only if we commit ourselves to really doing our best to simply set goals, achieve them and learn from all of our failures. Now, what's the first step very simple. If you're right now listening to us, just try your very best to stay optimistic know that this year will bring you closer to all of your goals. Because once you believe that it makes it more possible. Other than that, what's the next step, the next step is to simply focus on one thing, and that is the pursuit of your excellence, you have to focus on developing yourself. Understand, guys, if you want to make more money, if you want to have a better lifestyle, you need to work on yourself and 2021 will give you that chance to work on yourself with energy, zest and enthusiasm. So right now have your back in there laying on your sofa or in your car or somewhere like oh man life is step it up man and start living your life with energy and zest. And I hope that this program will give you that energy and that motivation to get off your ass and start doing something because the pandemic has taught us stay home, just be passive and watch Netflix all the time. That is wrong. The same pandemic gave a lot of us the opportunity to pursue our dreams, build new businesses from the ground up and work on developing our abilities. So 2021 will be simply another chance to continue on the same way to start building yourself up for a better you that's right for a better use. 2021 will make you a better you in this regard. And of course, that'll give you a great chance to work on building your abilities. And start right here right now. Last but not least, try to stay busy with your social life. You see, this pandemic has unfortunately made us a lot less social. Because now you can go out you can talk to your friends, you should wear a mask all the time, stay away social distancing, let that thing out of your head. Yes, we should follow all the health guidelines to make sure the virus don't spread out basically around us. However, it doesn't mean your social life is over, you can still be in touch with your friends with your contacts online or other places so long as you follow the health guidelines because ultimately that will allow us to make sure that those around us that we love the most our grandparents and those with health conditions will not suffer because of this pandemic. Then again, the vaccine is here, which means sooner or later, we will see a major drop in the case, basically where we see new infections and that will allow us to focus on building a brighter, better future. So yes, follow all the health guidelines but that doesn't mean that you should simply not have a social life. You can still be in touch with your friends, you can still see them if not in person online. But please do not fall in the trap of losing control of your social life because we are all social beings and we need to hang out with our friends around us. So please be social in 2021 All right, and that was it. I have this little short program gave me you know that motivation. To be on the right track, are you pumped up? Are you pumped up for a great 2021 because understand it's all in your head if you have the right attitude, year that is difficult, as difficult as 2020 can still be a productive year. So now guys, the year is here. I want to wish you all a wonderful, wonderful holiday time because of course we're going to celebrate this wonderful new year. But please do understand. If you are committed to making 2021 a great year, you will make it a great year. So stop with excuses. Start with negativity. And please do know that while we go through a dark winter 2021 will be a great, bright year that will teach us what it really means to appreciate all the things we have taken for granted for so long. That was it. This is Daniel Morgan. This was beyond the present podcast. Have a wonderful, happy, awesome new year and remember why we're here. We are here to make 2021 one of the best years of our lives. So go for it.

  Do you know the one trait that all unhappy and unproductive people have in common regardless of the reason behind their dismay? It is their inability to remain focused on what they do at the each and every moment! Your inability to remain focused won’t just erode your happiness, it also substantially reduces your productivity at work and in this program as part of the Entrepreneurial Edition of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel shares a new approach to staying focused that doesn’t require removing all the distractors in your environment, which is futile if not downright impossible, but rather promotes remaining focused in a proactive manner. 

The 2020 election was simultaneously historic, controversial, unconventional, and consequential. In this episode of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss the events of the election, shed light on some of the biggest myths and rumors surrounding the election and discuss its consequences for the next 8 years not only in the United States but also all over the world.    The material offered in this podcast solely represents the personal opinions of the attendants of the show and thus is not legally binding.      Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript... ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS trump, election, world, people, biden, america, president, joe biden, fact, vote, cycle, nations, pandemic, fortunately, years, donald trump, states, history, benefiting, terms SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, and welcome back to yet another let's talk edition of the BTP podcast here with Daniel Mulligan. How's it going, Dan?   Dan  00:16 What a man, buddy? How are you how's it going live could not have been any better. I mean, we're just post the election and Biden officially won the election today. As of now all the basically almost all the votes have been counted. So life is amazing and more important, I'm so glad to be here with you, after a while because we were super busy involved with the election and a few other things. And now we're back for another let's talk edition at this, you know, amazing moment right now. So I'm pretty happy and couldn't be, you know, happy to be here with you talking about all the cool things when I share hopefully with our listeners.   Pouya LJ  00:49 Absolutely. I've been eagerly waiting to start recording this episode. And hopefully a couple of days after the recording, the audience will hear it. Maybe even sooner. But we we sit on this for a few few days, I think 11 days since the day of the election to to talk about it mainly because so first of all the few five for four or five few days, obviously nothing was clear. And there was a mayhem after that. So we're gonna talk about all of that, obviously. But now we got a chance. So yes, officially, Biden seems to be the president elect, although Donald Trump really doesn't like that and keeps coming up with excuses. So today, we're basically what the intention is to talk about one of the impacts of all of this around the world, and what are the impacts of Trump being Trump for, for democracy and the US political system as a whole? And who, who better than to talk about this with, then you? Okay, so what is your general take on all of this very broadly?   Dan  01:51 First of all, I think this was one of the best elections the US ever experienced, probably the most historic election that we can think of, because there was a lot at stake at stake during this election, not only for America, but for the entire world, including what it really means to, you know, live in a democratic society. So I think that this election also was, in a way, very unique in that it took place during a pandemic. Now, of course, there are states that has experienced other tough elections during even civil wars. But this one really happened at a time where America was the most divided, and the kind of was the most hurt. And the pandemic had damaged, basically, the economy far, basically too much for it to actually be ignored by the voters. But then again, America was also facing with a lot of other issues, including a racial, basically a crisis, where we felt that despite all of our advancements in the modern technologies, and in other areas of life, culturally, and educationally, we're still seeing this racism running rampant. And that's where the Black Lives Matters movement actually got started this year, along with a focus on bringing into awareness what it really means to be a black man in America, and what it means for other minorities, including, let's say, for example, the Muslims, let's say, middle easterns, let's say those who come from minority backgrounds, people of color. So this was a, I think, a turning point during this election, where Americans decided that once and for all, they're not going to stand for a lot of the values that they escaped from, they or their parents or their grandparents, when they moved to the United States, after all the US was this nation made by immigrants, and people who went there. Basically, generations ago, they all wanted one thing to live in a free society, where they are not judged by the color of their skin. But ultimately, having seen what has happened so far in this election, and all the ups and downs really was probably one of those dramatic elections, even more so than what we had earlier with george bush and Al Gore, and the year 2000, basically, and how it changed almost everything for the world. But fortunately, we did not engage with so much election fraud, because this time, fortunately, as was announced by almost all experts, this was indeed the most secure election because there were so many threats. I mean, Trump right now is accusing fraud for the election, not knowing that, basically, the US officials were quite prepared for this, given the fact that in 2018, or 2016, it was Trump who benefited from a lot of these, basically, voter fraud, if you will, in that many nations, allegedly, Russia especially got involved with trying to involve and influence basically, the election and the results in favor of Donald Trump, obviously. So now, of course, somebody who is accused of that background, obviously would then assume that yeah, this is like what however he does it, so probably there's got to be some sort of, you know, fraud going on. But the fact of the matter is that Trump like all the other basically Republicans and the right wing extremists will have to come to, you know, an agreement on this and to have to somehow acknowledge the fact that they were defeated by a large majority. As of today, as of right now, almost 78 million Americans have voted for Joe Biden, this is a historical number, this is unbelievable, unheard of, and just quite frankly, a clear sign of victory, not just by the left or by the liberals. But you know, I think by almost all modern population who are rather sensible, educated, and they understand that we need a change, and that by going back through time, and trying to legalize, I don't know, things like coal mining, getting out of, you know, very important. Basically, PACs such as the Paris Paris Agreement and other things, we cannot have a good future. And which is why I personally, think of this election be one of the best ever, because it really happened at a time where change was needed. And fortunately, the Americans will actually have decided, and they made their voice heard, despite the fact that this was a pandemic, despite the fact that Trump wanted to create so many limitations for those who wanted to vote by mail, given the fact that he could not leave their houses. Now, we've seen the results. And fortunately, we're happy to announce that as of now, Mr. Biden is no longer basically a former Vice President, but the president elect, unfortunately, by January 20, we're going to actually see a lot of changes that are currently being done gradually, basically, go out of the way as Joe Biden will hopefully on that day be inaugurated. And we'll we'll hopefully, we'll see a great future for not only America, but the rest of the world.   Pouya LJ  06:35 Wow, that's great. Yeah, I mean, there has been a lot of problems. But before we go further, we go into everything. But do you think you will, by Hammond, Trump, do you think he will ever officially concede?   Dan  06:47 Well, legally speaking, Trump is not legally obliged to concede, nor is he really obliged to attend the inauguration of basically, Joe Biden. So he's not legally obliged, and given the fact that he's not they live lives, and he's a businessman, which means he probably will not do anything that he's not legally obliged. Especially if it's not gonna, you know, serve him or serve his image, he probably will not. But the fact of the matter is that he cannot simply just barricade himself in the White House, say, Oh, I don't care, you guys, you all have the fraud. It's all not true. He can't do that anymore. Because I really believe that Donald Trump was a reality TV president. And we have seen in the past four years, what he's done was nothing more than just a traumatic experience that was in no way presidential. And he took his, you know, reality TV mindset from the, you know, the TV show, apprentice, you're fired, I'm gonna fire everybody here now. And he actually recently even fired Esper, which was just incredibly, you know, just preposterous to even you know, think about that. But ultimately, we have seen him as a man who was in deep need for attention to create this, you know, these series of dramas. And he literally, I think he even saw his presidency as a TV show. In many cases, he didn't, he didn't actually produce certain, basically posters and certain photos of him, showing things that were very cinematic and not so much political in nature. I mean, if you just take a look at the back of the past four years, who would have made to take all these photos that are so cinematic, like, Oh, yeah, the sanctions are coming baby, to be followed on the next episode. So like, he perhaps, you know, thought of that, basically, I don't know how he did it. I know that he's definitely, you know, was a probably a bug in the system. Because there was an I personally was so much involved in this because I really wanted some answers. Because if Donald Trump would have won another term, that would have meant that he's the kind of person that is fit, and ready to lead, you know, versus America. And that is simply from my point of view, quite frankly, unacceptable, because that's not the kind of man that represents anything American basically, especially in the, you know, global community that I am a part of. So for that reason, now that he's a one term president, this clearly shows to the whole world, that Donald Trump was not the system. He was a bug in the system that fortunately, was quickly removed, because if he would have won another term, he was no longer a bug in the system, but the system itself. But now the whole world knows that no one can lead, like Trump and get a second term. It's just not possible. Although given his background and what he thinks he could do with his power, he perhaps had his own delusions of what he could do as a dictator, as probably the first stickler in the US, you know, history. But fortunately, the Constitution is much stronger than that. And it's, you know, written in a way that makes sure that a president cannot be a king or a dictator. And fortunately, that's what we're going to see so far. And despite all of his allegations and allegations regarding what has happened, almost always legal experts have mentioned that the election was fully monitor. And for the two reasons, because number one, the US officials were on edge the entire time, because of the threat of hacking, that, you know, was basically, you know, always in the corner, as you probably know, the 2016 election was very, very, basically, you know, controversial and that we thought there were so many nations were involved with this, mainly Russia to try to hack the election and try to change the results. So for that reason, this time around, he was officials were quite aware, on edge ready to, you know, tackle the problems of any possible intrusion, which is why this was dubbed the most secure election in the US history, given the fact that we knew there were a lot of threats. We wanted to make sure that, you know, this is not going to be a, you know, major issue and that many nations do not influence the election, basically, which is why this was done. And obviously, even like, if you look at like social media, many of Trump's tweets were actually being censored for the first time in the US history. And I believe that where we're seeing a president's tweets are being actually censored by, you know, let's be Twitter. And the reason was because he was propagating certain, basically false information, and allegations that are simply not true, nor based on facts. So because of this, not only I would, this was one of the most secure elections in the US history. I think it's one of the best, I after few election, basically, I got a text from one of my followers, like, then I heard there were some dead people voting. Well, first of all, were you there yourself? Did you examine the votes? Did you check the names and the signatures, I mean, there were so many mail those actually got discredited because of their, you know, signature. I mean, let's be honest, voting by mail is not an ideal way to vote, because you actually have a much higher chance of not being able to vote than being able to vote. Because even if your signature does not match what you've already submitted, you are not going to be able to, you know, make your voice heard. So you're always going to be counted, it's going to be discredited. So in such a system where even a slight tweak in your signature can make your vote basically, dismissed, you think that's a dead person can vote, I mean, just really makes no sense, in my opinion. So all of these allegations are false. This was the most secure election, the US history, as proven by all the experts, and not by those who have won or lost, but by those who are in the middle, those whose job it is to control and, you know, watch over the election, basically. So there are a lot of rumors that that people voting, I don't know, people voting five 5000 times, as was mentioned by one of Trumps, basically lawyers, but as of now, almost under the legal cases have actually gone through. And I'm not even sure if Trump really wants to go with recounts, because if he does, yes, of course, spend a lot of don't, you know, donation money, although when my friend said like, Dan just wants to get the money and just, you know, keep it for himself. He's not gonna actually go for the recount. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But as of now, everything is quite clear. And the whole world knows that Joe Biden is the 46th President knighted states, most statesman around the world have already congratulated Joe Biden. Though, of course, there are always exceptions, putting being one of them, for the obvious reasons. And even like many such leaders, who were vehemently against a democratic approach, and who were, you know, strong supporters of, basically, Donald Trump, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and the King of Saudi Arabia, they both have already congratulated Joe Biden. This means that even those nations who are benefiting from those very few nations, because Trump has already lost a lot of allies, because very few nations who are benefiting supposedly benefiting from Trump's preposterous policies themselves have already congratulated basically Joe Biden, and have realized that Donald Trump is now going to be in the White House longer. So that is why it was that this election is pretty much, you know, a pretty much over and we know who the President is, we know who the next President will be. And obviously, we couldn't be any happier than this.   Pouya LJ  14:06 Yeah, well, make sense. Now, I you mentioned Yes. I mean, obviously 78 million people voted for Biden. But we also cannot really discount the fact that 72 million people voted for Trump, and maybe for good, you're right, that they had. And I think it's really Paramount that. I mean, you're obviously lots of speculation as why that is, I mean, some are his base, but I don't think like he has 70 million base. I think there's definitely some sort of other, you know, reasoning behind it. And a lot of people were attributing that to lack of appeal of the opposition, candidate, Biden to those specific people for various reasons from his political agenda, his age, etc. So I think first of all, it's Paramount that we, as you know, but I mean, liberals and democrats on their own, but as a you know, as a society, we need to understand that appeal that Trump had a lack of appeal, rather than the opposition had. What are your thoughts personally on that?   Dan  15:10 Well, first of all, please, you know, bear in mind that this election was one of the most, you know, perhaps one of the, if not the largest collection of the US history, and that we had the most number of participants, if you compare this to other elections, so once you have almost everybody voting in, especially, given the fact that there were, you know, mailing voting allowed on almost all states, there are, of course, exceptions, and there are different terms and conditions, but generally was allowed. So that's one of the reasons why Trump actually got more votes this time around, then, you know, there during the last election, but the fact of the matter is that America is divided. And I'm really happy that in this situation, Biden is going to be our next person, because he was actually not so much. So left, as opposed to many other candidates who are running the primaries, because Joe Biden stands for, from my point of view, middle slightly tilted towards the left, which is why we need him right now. to somehow people, you know, bridge the gap between the two sides. And he says America, because let's be honest, America is now very divided. It's a clear fact. But the reason that it is happening right now, it is not because of the government itself, or the system, but rather, because the fact that we are going through a transitional cycle, you see, the US has already gone through two major transitional cycles in his history. And because we are now entering a new phase in the American life, and of course, in the global community as a whole, because we are now at a moment where we have a major clash between those who have been left behind, and those who are making it, which is why states like New York, and California have generally mainly been blue states, you know, for the most part, because they are well off there, you know, they are quite rich and highly educated. But states basically where, of course, I was very, you know, surprised when I heard Florida actually went back to Trump again, but certain states, we are seeing, basically the quality of life degradation. So for that reason, this class is quite normal. And by the way, I don't believe that this division is going to go anytime, go away anytime soon, even after you know, Biden's the president, because this is a cycle that America has to go through. And I believe that this cycle probably is going to get a little bit worse. And I think that the worst America will not be even now in the next few years or after pandemic, but the US will be at its worst position, I believe in the year 2028. So the real challenge that we will be facing is going to be the next eight years actually. And only after 2028 as the US enters the next cycle, only then we will hopefully see more stability. Why? Because now we're living in a world especially like let's look into us right now, where we have so much basically, disparity, and there is a lot of problems with in terms of how we could you know, people could make a living. So the world has become more modern. But not everybody is necessarily suitable for a lifestyle that is designed to adapt itself with its technologies, but education. So now we are seeing a major fights among those who have been left behind, and those who are not financially as well off, versus those who are making it. And that's how, by the way Trump won the last election because he tried to appeal to those people who felt they're left behind. Let's say the guy says, I'm a truck driver, or I used to be a miner and I cannot learn how to use the computer, well, I don't want to go back to school, I don't care about America's commitment to global warming, I just want to make some you know, make some money and make ends meet. So for such people with a, you know, short sighted perspective, they are going to demonize those who are perhaps have, you know, got a little bit better. And they're simply not going to care about many of the US commitments to the international community, all they care about is to get their job back and to get back on track, which is why we are seeing this struggle. But if you look at history, not only of America, but the world, you realize that whenever we have this division among those who have been left behind, and those who are making it, history tends to favor those who are forward oriented, much more so than those who are backward oriented. Because in throughout the history, all civilizations, once one group took the sign of the future, and one too excited the past, it was always the one that sets out a future that was actually in the end victorious and managed to change society, whether we go back to the Roman Empire, whether we go back to, for example, Renaissance era in Europe, it's always been a force in the EU in the US, this has happened already twice, basically, as we've gone through this. So in the third, transitional secondary states, we inevitably have to face with that struggle. And that friction caused by the right mainly those who are supporting the right wing, for keeping America in its current position, as the rest of America tried to take America forward and the struggle as we've seen so far has been manifested in a variety of ways. And it will continue if you think that this election means it's over, you are mistaken, because this is just the beginning of a lot and a series of fights and struggles that us has to face as it has already faced twice in the past, to go through the third cycle. And once hopefully, through good leadership, we go through this third cycle, and the US is made more equal more fair, and people are ready to take part in you know, most of our rights to take part in a new economy and a new world, then hopefully, we will enter the prosperous United States, which hopefully will be around the year 2032 2032. And by then we'll see a very, very different world, both in terms of you know, what happens the US and geopolitically with our rivals, including China, including Russia, and Europe, of course, and many other things. So for me, personally, I don't see this victory as the end, I see this as the beginning of the end. And that end is the third cycle. And this is going to take about eight years. So if you think that things are gonna get easier, just wait a little bit, just a couple of years, and you're gonna see what tension really means. However, given the fact that this has been done twice already, I'm very confident this is going to be also eventually passed. And as we entered the 2030s, hopefully, the US will then be a far more unified nation. And that'll Of course, benefiting the entire world, I believe.   Pouya LJ  21:20 All right, so what I hear you say is buckle up. I'm just kidding.   Dan  21:24 That's exactly what we should do. Guys, if you think this is over. just just just grab some stuff. I don't know, get get ready, because this is just the beginning of the action. Actually.   Pouya LJ  21:33 That's a, that's encouraging. Yeah, especially   Dan  21:36 Well, certainly for those who are living outside the US. So for example, actually curious, because I'm clearly clearly sure about this matter that basically, Justin Trudeau was so much anti Trump, I mean, I love to analyze, like his body language and the meetings with Trump during the NAFTA agreements, and like the way he would like, yeah, thank you, Trump. So like, I would like I found there was just so much distrust, and so much, you know, even hatred towards each other. But right now, what is the perspective of let's say, I don't know, the Canadians regarding the American, you know, election? What are what are you guys saying? Actually?   Pouya LJ  22:16 Um, I don't know. That's a very good question. I'm, obviously I didn't survey people, but based on my personal experience, and things that I hear around, I think Canada, actually, obviously, very culturally, like the rest of the West, and even the world is very impacted by the US. But I think they're the divide, not to the extreme that the US is experiencing. But I think that divide along the cultural lines and thought process exists also in Canada. I mean, there were obviously people who were like individuals, not politicians, per se, but individuals who were in favor and define of Trump, maybe maybe less in terms of proportionality than in the US, but that clearly that divide existed here. But you're right, like, obviously, Trudeau is a different character. And he definitely didn't like Trump, especially because of his policies. I mean, I mean, I   Dan  23:12 named one international leader who actually like Trump, I cannot think of like maybe like one or two. And that's just probably because of luck. Because he almost literally dissed everyone, all the, you know, global leaders. So I'm very glad that he will be soon gone, because, as you probably know, I work in international community, I work in multiple countries. And what I've seen is the image of America being tarnished and damaged in the past four years. And, I mean, I was like, incredible. You see, you know, things like we go to Germany, you see, for example, are using Donald Trump's basically photo in their bathroom. And it's basically like, you pretty much have to, you know, do the deeds while looking at his face. And as you know, basically, you know, look around, so you're seeing that, and like in Europe, Europe was extremely against Trump, because of all the things they did against Europe. The same thing, of course, applies to the Middle East, although there were some exceptions. But mostly it was negative, basically, Canada was severely hurt, so was Mexico. And I cannot think of so many nations who actually benefit from Trump or even light him, which is why I'm so glad because of In fact, my major area of activity is International Business and Commerce. So seeing the fact that we're going to see a lot less tension internationally, although, of course, the episode with China, thanks to Trump will still stay there and probably will be here for the next eight years, until the US can first leave that, you know, third cycle. But still, I'm very happy to know that the international basically community will now be a lot more stable in the fact that the power that comes with the White House generally has basically white effects and it could reach basically almost all over the world and if you have an idiot as the commander in chief Things to get a little bit dangerous. And if you have an idiot as an international policymaker, that could lead to a lot of problems. So fortunately, I'm very glad that at least an international community, we're going to now see a shift in the way America is perceived. And of course, as the policies get enhanced over time, we're going to see hopefully, more improvement, although, as I've already mentioned, and I'm, I've already predicted the election correctly, almost everybody around me said that Trump is the winner. I've been repeatedly saying since July 3, and Vine is the winner, and he was my next prediction. Basically, first, number one, keep an eye out for who's going to be our next president. Basically, it's gonna be any transition between vice president or president at some point, perhaps, because I think that the United States, it's time for the US to actually have its first female president. And the second thing I would like to predict right now is about what will things what things will lead to because, as I already mentioned, we are in the phase, we have to go through this cycle. And that, you know, transition is going to be the most difficult that at this very moment, given the fact that now the division is quite clear. And because of this, we're going to see a lot of tension. So the US is going to be affected tremendously by a major inner conflicts for the next eight years, most of which will be caused by this division. However, for those of you who are perhaps going to listen to us for three years, five years from now, as the US will face with that crisis, like oh, my gosh, the world is coming to an end, just like the last election, you probably panic a little bit, I'm telling you, right now, if you perhaps got the chance to let us back in a couple of years from now. And you were in the middle of that crisis, please do enter, the batch shall pass as well, because this cycle is predictable, economically, politically, and socially. So we will go through that phase as well. And hopefully things will get better. Much better. Of course, by the time we reach 2028, and we're going to have basically the next election. So for now, just this is my prediction for the next eight years. Obviously, it's still gonna be much better. But there's a lot of work to be done. And of course, we will have to face with a lot of challenges ahead. But I'm pretty sure that America is fit to deal with that challenge. And hopefully, it'll be better for all of us.   Pouya LJ  27:11 All right. I know that that sounds interesting. And I mean, obviously, there's a lot to be said about all of this. And I'm sure we're going to discuss that maybe not not as my main topic, but as an intro to other conversations that we have a catch up on the world events. And we're going to talk more about this. But before we leave, is there anything that you want to talk about that we left behind, didn't talk about?   Dan  27:36 Well, first of all, Pouyjix is good, you know, talk to you, basically. And generally, today was a great topic. And I'm very happy that Joe Biden is now the president elect, because we could not have possibly imagined what damage he would have caused. If we had to go through that third cycle with Trump as the president, it would have led to disastrous consequences, because in that situation where the two sides are going at each other, we need a leader who can actually calm both sides down. And of course, Biden will be the best leader. Some people are talking about his age. There's a reason why he is the President is not just the fact that he's the Vice President of Barack Obama, that age will itself play a role in our next election in 2024. And hopefully, it'll lead to some further development in knighted States of America, in terms especially with respect to you know, female rights and what women can do in politics. But ultimately, we discussed mainly, the issue of whether or not this election was fair. And as we've said many times, that when the session was fair, it was the most secure and most reliable election, probably in the US history. So to Donald Trump's dismay, this election was fair, it is over it is done. Biden is the 46 presidents and Trump's right now, teams are trying their best are trying to fight tooth and nail to get this thing through. But that's pretty much from my point of view, it's nothing more than trying to say face, and I have no problem with that. I think everybody has the right to try to save their face. And I think that's precisely what Trump has in mind. It doesn't have to concede he doesn't have to attend the, you know, integration of Joe Biden, but for the American people, and for the, you know, international community around the world, for all of our listeners all over the world, they should know that this election was fair, it was secure, it was reliable. And it was a concrete message sent to the White House and to the world, that America will not tolerate dictatorial leaders or will not tolerate anything that is not American democratic, or that could somehow go against, you know, the well being of the entire global community because America has a has a role here. America has a responsibility. There are kids right now listen to us. We're living in countries that are ruled and governed by dictators. There are people in this, you know, in this world who are living in countries where they had their president for 25 years. There are now people in the streets of Belarus, who are still fighting for the rights to for their for their right to actually have their own president elected. There are people you know, in Eastern Europe, they're people that middle east there are people all over the world who look at America as an example. And it's America's job to show the world that democracy works. And that well as much as never, ever the best basically. And never a perfect system of governance is probably the worst except for all the others. And that is why it's best for us to adopt true democracy and allow the people at basically to make their voice heard and, you know, show and send the message of democracy to all over the world so that hopefully someday, we will not have to see things like what we've seen in Belarus or other countries where people are have no they can't, cannot rely on the results of their elections. And hopefully, this is going to be a good message for all of us all over the world.   Pouya LJ  30:53 And on that note, we come to the end of our today's talk. I hope everybody enjoyed and thank you, Dan, for joining us again, my pleasure, buddy. And thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed it and I hope you got informed. Please let us know if you have any thoughts or comments in the comment section. And until a later episode.

Going through an economic recession can be a daunting experience for all of us but relying on instinct during tough times can only sabotage your financial well-being. In this episode and as part of the entrepreneurial edition of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel will share with you the essential survival techniques to bring your finances under control and also offers some ways you can even profit from recessions!   Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript...   ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS recession, cash, economic recession, tough, property, tough situations, money, business, online, panic, pandemic, economic crisis, buy, situation, currency, investors, opportunist, call, lose, bad SPEAKERS Dan   Dan  00:11 Hello, welcome to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast, the entrepreneurial edition. My name is Daniel Morgan. And today we're going to talk about how to go through a financial crisis without getting a lot of damages on your bills, as well as your bank accounts, as well as in your life. And above all, on your emotions. See, guys, once you are going through an economic recession, the entire rules of the game of financial change. And today, I want to actually prepare you with certain basically, techniques and somehow abilities and skills and knowledge that will allow you to resist going down in tough situations. So for today, we're right now obviously, if you're in the US, we are officially in a recession, obviously. And this same story applies in almost every country I'm currently working in or I have a company in so think about the European Union, it's official in a very bad stage of recession, think about, basically China is already going down heavily. The Middle East is not doing far better, although things are still quite good in places like Dubai, Emirates, but still Middle East as a whole is actually experiencing a lot of shrinkage in terms of their economic development. The same story, you know, applies to Eastern Europe, Russia is not doing any better. So pretty much anywhere I know things are really, really tough economically. And because of this, we have to prepare ourselves for what is about to occur, hopefully after the pandemic is over, and the recession will then gradually disappear. So whenever you find yourself in an economic recession, the biggest problem is what cash that's exactly what it is, however, not in the way you think you see, many of us will still keep our jobs, they will still go to work, many of us will actually even be able to generate more income and certain businesses, let's say if you're especially in e commerce, or if you're working online, you probably will do much better during a recession like this. But in the end, we all face with economic uncertainties. If we are an investor, you see things are going down in the stock market. You see the Dow Jones Industrial Average, s&p 500, all coming down. If you're an import and export, you see that oh my goodness, this thing really is increasing the cost of delivery and shipping because of all the logistics of becoming a lot more expensive, because of a pandemic. And of course, if you have already lost your job, if you're working as a waiter, if you're working as I don't know, perhaps a trainer at the gym, you might say that, oh my goodness, actually, I'm not going to work at all. So in these tough moments, the first reaction of most of us is to panic. It's all over. I'm gonna go broke, I got no money, man. I'm so poor now. And this panic, and this, you know, fear will actually turn into a vicious cycle where you feel worse and worse. And guess what, end up spending more money on your credit card. That's actually you know, pretty amazing. When you're making good money, you actually spend less, because you have less time to go out and start doing shopping. But ironically, the moment a lot of us we lose jobs, guess what's the first thing we most of us, we actually tend to do? Yeah, let's go shopping, I got some free time. Let's enjoy this right, you would do the exact opposite. The very first thing you want to do when you face with a major economic recession be the loss of the value of your currency. Right now one of my friends actually just called me from Moscow. And as of now ruble is suffering heavily. And one of my friends, basically in Turkey right now said the exact same thing as happened with lira the Turkish currency. And other one of my friends in Brazil said, our currency right now is one of the worst in the world. So if you are right now one of these countries where the currency is dropping, you might start panicking, like oh my gosh, I'm going to lose it all. But please do understand that most currency trends are temporary, and that most governments actually will find a way to reverse that trend. So making very bad decisions about your money could lead to certain problems. So you're saying Well, okay, okay, I got some cash right now ruble is coming, I don't know ripples losing value. I don't know Leroy is coming down. What should I do? in these moments, understand that in tough economic situations, your assets become a lot less liquid. Now, what is liquidity? It's your ability to transfer and to basically exchange an asset for cash. So for example, let's say things are very fine and you are emits an economic boom. And you have a lot of cool assets, real estate, stocks, and so on and so forth. So now, you need the money. You want to paid for your, you know, kids college tuition, you want to actually travel. So if you're in a good economic moment, it's so easy, then go ahead and sell that property. And get the cash for it, or to sell for example your car and get the cash for it right. But the problem is, whenever you're facing with an economic recession, the first thing that happens to all of us is that we lose liquidity. So your property might actually go up in value, but you can't find a new buyer, because the property right now has no interested buyer for it, because people don't have the cash for it, they would actually use mortgage options, but because of the uncertainty, a lot of investors and not all, but a lot of investors lashley stay away from it all. And they find a more safe approach a safer approach towards their, you know, investments. So oftentimes, in these situations, investors tend to move towards what we call safety measurements, things like buying gold, things like buying certain types of currencies, and that reduces the liquidity of your basically properties, your assets, and so on. So in those situations, what you want to do is to make sure that you have as much cash set aside as possible, I repeat, guys, cash will save the day, a lot of us we say, well, but then I don't want to keep my money in bank of america, because I'm gonna just get what, oh, point 5% return on my annual investment, I understand this money in the bank is not meant to be an investment, money in the bank or in a let's say, CD, sort of go deposit, or and basically, other types of bank basically accounts. They're not meant to be thought of as investments. They're meant to be your security. And because of his he in these tough situations, the first thing you want to do is to increase your level of financial security. And that means having access to liquid assets or simply cash in your bank account, and saying, well, well, are you saying there should just keep I don't know, $5,000? In my bank account, yes, that's exactly what I'm telling you right now, the first thing you want to do in a crisis is to have cash ready to be spent, basically, on your MasterCard on your music, or whatever it is, right. So if usually, on average, you let's just say, you know, typically you keep about few hundred dollars on your debit card. And then the rest, you basically make expenses by let's say, your credit card. in a tough situation, I recommend increasing the amount of money on your debit card by at least five to six times. So if on average, you keep about $300 on your debit card, I want you to actually increase that number by somewhere up to 1500 or $1,800. inside of your debit card, you're saying well, why should I do that? The answer is the psychological impact that it will have on you. You see, I know so many investors, who made ridiculous mistakes, just because they needed the cash. I know a lot of property owners who sold their property at the worst possible time with major losses, because they needed the cash and they could not get it anywhere else. And some opportunist came along and said, Oh man, listen, this isn't a recession, I'm gonna buy your property, but 20% of the price of the market. And she's like, well, Oh, my gosh, what can I do? And guess what? That guy's not gonna see any other buyer anytime soon. It's a recession. So guess what he's sold the property below the market price. The appanoose got the property, waited for a few months or a years until you know, the recession was over and boom sold at a profit 20% above the market average. So that guy made 40% from that investment, while the other person lost all of that. In this case, the other person is lost was the opportunists when you don't want to make the same mistake, whether it is your stocks, just like dead men, I just bought all these stocks man and and they're coming down. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is coming down, man, s&p 500 is down, I'm looking my stocks are all red man. Well, in this situation, if you already have the cash in your bank account, you're not going to panic so much. And you can wait for the perfect moment. You see, most of the worst decisions we make during a recession come from us being extremely needy of some sort of cash basically help. And because of that, we end up making very bad decisions. We end up selling things we should simply hold on to we end up accepting projects, which are not actually accepting the business, because we somehow are not fit for this and was actually an end and the end ends up causing us a lot more losses than profits in the end, right. So because of is I want you from now to say okay, whenever I'm in a recession, the first thing I will do is to build financial defense. Now, what is financial defense simple, cash saved, not for investment. Not for some big purchase, not for some luxury purchase, not for a cool watch or a cool car. It's cash. Just to ensure that you will have enough money, if you happen to run out of cash, and guess what, you're very likely to run out of cash during a recession or a major crisis. And because of this, keeping cash on you is one of the most important thing you can do to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for a recession. Other than that, after you've already put aside some cash, and now you have financial defense, the other steps are cutting back expenses, which is very, very important. Now, in a tough recession, generally, we have more free time. In the past, when we had to actually go to stores and starting to shop basically, in the stores, it was not as easy to actually spend a lot of money. But nowadays, you can just stay at home all the time, you got a lot of free time, because we're unemployed, and you're not working and the clients are not calling and there's none of this any sales being made. So you got the chance to guess what, look for some very good deals lucrative deals online, and start shopping it away. So you wonder the exact opposite. When things are looking tough, you need to remove as much of your consumers habits as possible, it might be a little bit difficult, because you know, you have a lot of free time. But one of the best ways you can cut back on your expenses, is to dedicate that time to some other productive pursuit, learning a new skill, or exercising, spend time with your family, do not spend a lot of free time randomly browsing the internet, because guess what's gonna pop up, you're browsing through the internet, and boom, another suggested post comes up on Instagram, recommending you to buy this and buy that. And if you have nothing to do, well, it seems like it's 30% off, why not? Let's try it. And you start wasting that money basically, without having anything to replace it with to the second part is cutting back on your personal expenses. And the same thing applies to your business. So if you are running a business, if you have some staff, it's Stop wasting money. I know a lot of my friends, when they're not making money, their business, they spent a lot of darn money trying to redecorate their offices or create new charts and put it there like they're actually spending more money even though they have no clients to serve. So you want to step on the brake pedal here and stop that, you know destructive behavior. When things are tough, the costs must be minimized as much as possible. The third element is actually becoming an opportunist understand, all recessions will bring the worst in people financially, this caused them that somehow panic, it causes them to somehow worry. And because of this, they're, they're very much likely going to make a lot of bad decisions. Remember that example I gave you earlier about that, you know, desperate gentlemen who wanted to sell his house because he needs the cash right now? Well, you could be the other guy in this situation, understanding in a very bad recession, most people are not willing to, you know, simply make purchases, or buy, especially assets, like real estate, and so on, like stocks, when the market is red, and everything is coming down. Most people are selling, that's why it's coming down. They're not buying, well, if you have enough cash to support you, and you feel emotionally and psychologically secure. Well guess what, now is the time to buy the stocks. If you have your mortgage setup, if you have a good credit history, and you see that you know that this guy is very desperate, he's putting an offer for real estate that is slightly below the marketplace. Why not go to his house, whatever offer he's got, reduce the amount by 10%. Make him an offer and say, You know what, buddy, I understand this. And I you just by the way, all the time, I'm going to give you a great recommendation to get good deals in real estate, far below the market. First of all, wait for a tough economic situation like this, or wait for any moment where the number of transactions come down. In this situation, people are not buying properties, you then look at all the offerings, and all the possible cases. And then you select whichever property you wants to, you know, basically purchase below the marketplace. So you kind of know the market price. And you said like this guy or this person is selling it at or below the market price. This itself shows that the seller is rather desperate is the kind of seller who failed to do his or her homework, who did not save enough cash for the tough moments. And now he's in need of money. And guess what? He's got nothing. He's got to sell the house. so in this situation, you think that gentleman or lady a call and say, Well, I'm pretty interested in your property, and I'd like to, you know, give you guys a visit. You go to the place, let's say the property, it's like, you know, let's say middle, basically a class type of, you know, property, three bedrooms, for example, and in a very good location and price approximately, let's say about $800,000 right. So, you know, the market value of this property is $800,000. However, you also know This is a very tough moment, and there aren't a lot of buyers. So here's what I recommend you guys to do. You go and say, Okay, I like your property. It's very nice. But I would like to buy it for $700,000. So you actually make an offer $100,000 below the, you know, the price they actually put on the website. And of course, we're going to say, Oh, yeah, for sure. Of course, I say No, man, I'm sorry, that's the lowest price possible, we can go below 800,000. It's a recession, there are a lot of buyers. So here's what you do. Grab your business card, write the amount that you want to buy it. So I grab my business card and write down $700,000 ready in cash right now call me hand that business cards to the gentleman. And then they might say like, well, man, let's negotiate. You say, Matt, no time for negotiation, man, I got to get going. You leave the place and you shut up. You don't call to say what's going on, you don't send a text message. Oh, by the way, you guys nothing. You hand out the card has got your number and the offers fixed 700,000 hundred k below the market price, give them the card, get out of the place and shut up. And wait. Ironically, in two out of three cases, you are going to be hearing a call back after a few weeks. Maximum one month, it's a recession. And you're gonna hear the call. So Mr. Molgan? Ah, well, you want to make the deal. And you say, Are you sure Sir, I give the price 700,000. I cannot offer anything more. Oh, sure. No problem, come over, boom, in the same period, that everybody is panicking, wasting their money, you will do the exact opposite. Because you're not panic, you got your you know, savings aside. So you can, you know, go through the, you know, currently this whole crisis without much difficulty. But not only you can survive through this crisis, why not thrive and get better. So guess what, congratulations, you just made a great purchase, in a recession, below the market price this way, a couple of years, four or five, six years. And you can sell it right back from my point of view with no less than 25% ROI. And that's pretty good on a property, you know, priced $800,000. So if you want to, you know, look at this perspective, you should become an opportunist in these tough economic situations. The same thing applies to businesses that are run online, e commerce, online sales, online consultancies and tutoring, various forms of online interactions, legal services, and as well as you know, anything that perhaps if you are into creating online games for your customers, if you're like a gaming company, anything that is online, will definitely go up in tough economic situations for a variety of reasons. And it's not just a pandemic. But if it's a tough situation, the chances are that illogical unemployment, and what do you think the unemployed do, sitting at home all the time, they're checking their phones, they're using the internet's So focusing your business and trying to make it as online as possible is another great way to not only survive through a pandemic or a major kind of crisis, but to thrive it. And the way to do so is very simple. You take your business as much online as possible, you're saying, Well, I'm selling chocolates, they got to come and smell it, no is not required to be smelled, just create that nice category on Instagram, perhaps start to promote that page, and then get the people to join in your websites to make a purchase online for you know, online delivery. Now it is pretty easy to deliver almost anything using a simple app to our customers, right. And if you are a consultant, if you are a let's say, you're a business consultant, so why not say From now on, we focus exclusively on doing sales via zoom, and then we deliver the you know, the goods on Skype or some other you know, online service, trying to take your business online will save a tremendous amount of time in transportation costs in traveling costs in case you have to fly to different cities or countries. And it allows you to make the same amount of money because nowadays, people are at home all the time, right? So the last stage, of course, was this one. And finally, I really believe that the biggest challenge of facing with an economic crisis is internal, it's psychological. It's that feeling that things will remain like this forever. So the biggest lesson for you today is to understand that in tough economic recessions, this too shall pass life, business and economies are all cyclical. So when one cycle ends, another begins and an economic recession will always see at the end, a turning point where things begin to get better. So please, no matter how how much your emotions are letting you down or saying Oh, things are gonna get worse. I know it's gonna get terrible. I know that all economic crises in the past were cycles, and no economic crisis lasted forever. It's just impossible by the very nature of Economics as well as you know, customer behavior, it's just impossible for any recession to last forever. It's just impossible. It's like it has to be somehow managed to be turnover, right? It has to somehow you know, for it to become a new trend. And then from then on, things get better, right. So, from now on, you heard a lot of great techniques about all these things. And you can use all of these, you know, techniques to get yourself to act differently in these tough situations and to hopefully not only manage to get through these difficult times, but actually profit and benefit from them in the long run as well. Alright guys, that's all the time we have for I hope you enjoyed the second basically entrepreneurial edition that we have offer for you here. And of course, if any other questions, you can actually contact me on social media on my website, or simply by sending me an email. That's all the time we have for I wish guys the very best. Let's go through this economic crisis. Not only safe and secure, but happy, probably a bit more profitable. Have a good one, and take care

Kanwar Gill graduated with a Master of Teaching from the University of Teaching and is an OCT certified teacher. He has been teaching for 10+ years, including being a Computer Science Teaching Assistant at the University of Toronto and tutoring students one-on-one. He has several years of experience as a software developer before transitioning to teaching. In this episode, Pouya sits down with Kanwar to talk about the impact of Covid on education and the path forward to a better future for education.   Kanwar's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/__kanwargill__/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/_KanwarG_ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillkanwar/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   Photo by Deleece Cook on Unsplash Music: Never Falter Written By Kevin Austin Graham Performed By Kevin Graham Produced By Kevin Graham   SUMMARY KEYWORDS students, parents, platform, teachers, learning, happen, education, school, kid, feel, online, big, home, uncertainty, impacted, situation, class, place, people, technology SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Kanwar   Pouya LJ  00:17 How's it going? Guys? How are you? Oh, pretty good. It's been a while we haven't had a podcast in I think a little over a year or about a year. I don't recall when it would leave.   Kanwar  00:28 So yeah, I think I should call it has changed a lot.   Pouya LJ  00:31 Yeah. And it feels long. Actually, I was thinking it's probably even less than a year. But you know, it feels much longer.   Kanwar  00:38 Yeah. Yeah, a lot has happened a lot for sure.   Pouya LJ  00:43 And, and a lot is going to happen, I reckon with the remainder of COVID with the US political, you know, weather election or whatnot. And who knows what else is 2020? Preparing for us?   Kanwar  00:58 Yeah, no, no, it's, it's, it's a pickle. It's kind of like not knowing what's going to happen, but just people still need to, you know, like, economy still has to go up. And it's, it's, I think it at this point, it kind of hinges on the vaccine, which we know a lot of companies are getting close to, hopefully, something will be done. And I think the vaccine would bring in some sense of peace and security for people as I go about, you know, their day to day tasks. True.   Pouya LJ  01:35 No, that's true, I think. I mean, until then, I don't I think that sense of uncertainty, as you put it is going to be, you know, having a lot of influence on on how people think and feel, and live decisions made politically by the officials. I mean, all of that are impacted by that sense of uncertainty. You're absolutely right. And with that, actually, that brings us to one of the fields that obviously, like everything was impacted by this phenomenon of COVID. But we're going to talk about today about education and how that's been impacted, because that's your wheelhouse. You've you work in that space, you read in that space, study, research, etc. So what I mean, obviously, a lot has changed. But if you were to, if you were to give us an intro to how education has changed, from your perspective, how would you describe it?   Kanwar  02:34 Um, good question. In terms of education, I mean, the instant need off, this is learning, online learning has skyrocketed, which has led to big changes in the industry. So you would have teachers, for example, in the public school, who probably don't, you know, they don't go towards online learning. But now they have no other option. And they have to, they have to get on it. And so that's one thing. Let's give me a second. Sure. So that's one thing for sure. That has changed. So you'd have these teachers who have to now understand how the online platform works. Zoom, for instance, you know, the US we're using zoom right now, for this podcast. We know how much the need for zoom instantly increased throughout the world. Right? Yeah. And not just in education, industry, but also in other from you name, small businesses, big businesses. Everyone has been using it. And that's a, that's a feel quite the nature of having something like COVID, which is an immediate, you know, like danger in a sense. We know that the death toll has now increased more than a million. So a lot has happened. And people you know, the second wave, as was announced by the Premier of Ontario, which has started officially. So, again, a lot of insecurity has led to online learning. That has been the biggest shift, in my opinion. And that's what I've seen as well. If you look at any sort of any sort of job postings, any sort of in the education field, any sort of hiring happening, there's some aspect of what you're learning attached to it now.   Pouya LJ  04:55 Oh, that's true. And I think a year ago, more than Have two people who are using the platform, let's say zoom currently haven't even heard of it. Yeah. And that shows you how much reliance it has. Because a lot of people who could work from home, they were working in offices perhaps and in different industries. Now, the the we're basically encouraged and forced to work from home. And while they are having to interact with each other holding meetings, perhaps, and how do you do that with tools such as Microsoft Teams, or, or Skype or zoom? zoom is one of the platforms is doing pretty great because of its quality and reliability, I suppose. And I believe that education, education, field also has came to embrace it, whether it's teachers from like holding their school classrooms at the end of the day. So at the end of last school year, which was the beginning of COVID, and lock downs, I suppose, in around March and April, I think everything had to move into online platforms, at least in Canada. Yeah. And I think, probably most of the world, I suppose, and, or halted, at least, depending on where you happen to reside. So did you did you have a first hand experience of how that affected students and teachers alike?   Kanwar  06:20 Um, definitely. So at the time, I was finishing my master's. Back in March, I mean, March, April, timeframe. And so I was working in a school at the time, as part of my program, doing some teaching, and also, you know, learning in that environment. And this was right, I got really lucky, actually. Because,   06:49 right,   Kanwar  06:50 before the March Break, is when I finished working in the school, and right, at the March Break, is when the premier made the announcement that the schools are not going to be opening again. So I didn't impact me, from that classroom experience point of view, I was able to have all of that done. But what happened is, schools did not go back after my trip. So they had it in, in theory, data, really extended mushrik now, and in this time, the, the province was figuring out what to do. Which means a lot of things were changing, right? So the parents, for instance, they couldn't, depending on where you work, employers were telling you to just work from home, parents were had to figure out how to do homeschooling. So there was no structure in place that Okay, these other resources, you can use, periods have to figure out, Okay, now I have to work my kid at home. And I was I also need to do my own work. So it's kind of like a pickle, right? That was a biggest change that happened. And I'm sure the students reacted a lot differently. Because now they're just home. Before there's something to look forward to, right in terms of going to school, they have this social circle, they interact, something to do outside of home, right. And that changed drastically for for everyone. And that was the immediate change that happened at the time. And that continued for a few weeks, before they decided they're not going to open the schools and online learning is the way to go. And at that point, teachers had to where they had to figure out in the current systems, a lot of teachers would be using Google Classroom. And there's another platform called Brightspace that is used, especially in the GTA area. And they have to basically figure out, Okay, now, you have to put everything on the platform so students can learn. And then some teachers decided to do online office offers where students could come in, ask questions, obviously, teachers would have started getting a lot of emails from the students now. Before that wouldn't be the case as much. So responding to that, I heard a lot of teachers in my own circle, who were definitely been bombarded with a lot going on. And it led to a lot of, you know, stress in terms of time management, okay. Like, there's the nine to five was blurry. It's not like you're working starting in the morning. It could be replying to emails in the in the evening. And you have to make sure you're supporting the students. So it was what it was. And that's how the school year continued. And now we have that's pretty much what happened during this summer. While the province was figuring out what to do with the entire city.   Pouya LJ  10:01 Right. Yeah. And so yes, that and that was probably the speed of onset uncertainty, that was the time of absolute uncertainty because we didn't even know what we're dealing with. Yeah, in terms of the virus in terms of how to and you were right, we, we didn't have resources in place, right. Like right now, there is a degree of preparation, even if the classes are in person, depending again, depending on where you are, maybe the classes are still online. But like, as of now, I believe nothing has changed. Because things changing very quickly, in Ontario, people are going in person with some consideration to schools, but there is a degree of preparation that schools, students and teachers, everybody has in their mind that they might even go back to fully online again, or right now, maybe part partially is online, like, for example, two things are happening online, most of it at least, at least as much as possible. So yeah, so there are the the speaking of uncertainty, that was the absolute of it, I suppose the or the maximum of it, as we experienced during these times. Now, we talked a lot about prospective teachers and parents and, and a little bit students. But did you did you hear any immediate feedback of how students were taking this? This this whole thing?   Kanwar  11:20 Yeah, it's, uh, you know, it's it's students for them, you could imagine that I'm just learning online, especially for somebody who was not engaging with technology or learning through technology. In the past, it was a big, big shift, right. And those students absolutely hated online learning, because part of it was doing something that was given to them through the online platform with their parents, and they absolutely hated working with the parents. Because they just want to get out of that kind of environment. And that was definitely a struggle, even at the time. I remember, Google Classroom, which is one of the big platforms, they even have a an app right on, depending on iOS, or Android. And at the time, back in March, April, and this was through North America, as far as I know. Lot of students started giving really poor feedback to that app on the App Store. So the actual star rating went down for Google Classroom. And students absolutely hated it. And that was, you know, quite evident of, Okay, what the students are feeling or they're feeling that this is something that is not a substitute for their experience, or the platform is just missing a lot, right? Like, I'm checking right now on on App Store, and Google Classroom has 160,000 ratings. And the rating that I see right now is 1.6, out of five. Oh, wow. So that's, yeah. And then this app is rated number one in education. So definitely, there's, I'm sure Google took a lot of that feedback, and started to make changes, because they're like, well, if students are really hating, they don't like how it feels. All that, but not to be honest, not much has changed the platform. So they just made minor changes. And students still feel the same. In terms of online learning. Currently, the students that are going to school, and parents realize that it's important for the students, you know, the kids to go to school, because even in the midst of COVID, as long as the safety protocols in place, right. And that's, you know, that's a good expectation to have. You can't rely on that expectation to be followed through entirely, right. So that's something it's it's you don't know what's going to happen. But you have good faith, and you're going to send your kid to the school. And that's what's happening. That's what happened when the schools open again in September, with safety protocols in place, but again, like I said, before, looks like and it's a little, again, create creates a bit of an E an ease, because what's happening again, is like, we feel the structure is missing. show their students in school, you know, the safety protocols, they say, but what's happening is if the students Feels a certain way, the teacher would typically just tell them that, okay, I can't I don't know what's going on. But you can be in the classroom. I see, though, what, what, what's happening now, speaking of today, what's happening now is, okay, we have a lot of influx of the students going to these COVID assessment centers and getting tested. Right, so the the, there's a influx, the load has increased, which means the testing before it was like, within one or two days has now moved to like five to six days. So, you know, and that is even upended by the second wave. But if ever, and added an experience recently, to check out a, you know, one of the COVID assessment centers, and in the line that I saw there, I would say more than 80% were parents with their kids. Wow. And that's just speaks to it. And I feel like that's, you know, it's, here's what's happening. So kids want to go to school. But if they get turned away for something, now, the kid is going to have a totally different experience, right? They're not in school, they're going to go through this COVID assessment center. And, you know, that's a whole different world, right? It's like something you wouldn't expect, that we kind of never went through that when we were their age. And for them to go through that. It's just I feel changes their whole entire perspective of their life and what, what, what is to come when they become an adult? Right. So that's, I think, one of the big changes that are happening for the students. This understanding the world we're living in, especially at the developmental age, right, where they don't really understand developmentally, what COVID means, how it affects everyone, they're, they're just kids they want to play, they want to have fun, right? We all went through that. And to to, to an extent, it's kind of unfair to see, okay, you know, what, they're missing on some things. But in the bigger picture, are we doing what we can to protect everyone around us?   Pouya LJ  17:16 Right? Yeah, no, that's, that's fair. And, yes, it is a bit unfair in that they have to, you know, deal with this through no fault of their own. And, you know, I, as you mentioned, especially as a younger age, where, when they're a little bit really not aware, or even care about what COVID is, they just want to do what they want to do and learn and grow and move forward. That's a fair point. Now, moving forward, do you? Do you see, so how do you see education, let's say a vaccine comes along, let's say the best case scenario, everything moves away? Do you see the education going back to what it was? And if not, what have we learned? What have you learned in this from from all of this? And how can we make education even better than the quote unquote, normal? How can we make it improved upon?   Kanwar  18:12 Right? So in terms of the education, a lot has changed, we've seen that in terms of, you know, the teaching platform, the experiences, what you're learning, one thing that I feel has been a, you know, big benefit of whatever is going on, is the fact that there, the need for collaboration has increased, which means you can collaborate easily on a global scale. Because everyone has a shared problem. So everyone wants to help each other out. So there are platforms, especially in the education field, you know, use certain platforms for say, you want to do an online quiz, you want to you want to have students create posters, there are platforms like canva.com or pictou chart that, you know, before COVID, they, if you had to use certain features, you have to pay for it. But what they did was they understood the need for helping everyone. And they read that entire fee on their platform. So as a teacher, you could just go there now.   Pouya LJ  19:22 And this again, is it can Canva canvas.com or, yeah,   Kanwar  19:26 cannot chart. There's another website called knowledge hook. Specific, specifically good for math in Ontario. And a lot of these platforms, you know, had some sort of features that a lot of features you get access to after you pay the premium, right. But they've waived that in the need off, helping each other out. And Nearpod was another platform that did that. And that was I felt a really good intention. Because you are adapting to this change. You're being flexible, and you are helping each other out. So these platforms, we're not really thinking from a monetary point of view, but really, from a point of view where they want to help the teachers out there. And that's what they did. And a lot of teachers made use of that. And I know for myself, I made use of it. Because I know for a fact that these premium features really give me a lot of flexibility of how I can create my content, how I can assess do assessments in the class. And that was a big, big shift. And so going back to your question, with education going forward, being flexible, or adapting to the change, even if you're not a person who likes change, and that was something that was, you know, in a sense, thrown at you, and you have to now change. So as a teacher, ensuring you know, you are flexible with whatever platform you're given. Now, obviously, look, we don't we can't have the experience you do in class, on an online platform. Okay. So that's something that would be different for sure. You can imagine from a, from a first day point of view, where you build class community where you build these relationships in the class, through the online platform, that would be way different. Okay, the student will still get to know you. But that relatability might not be to that personal level, as it would be in the class. Right, if you show care for a student in the class, they can see it, right? If you show care for a student and online platform, that means creating a safe environment, you know, not having any bullying or any foul language, and you can, there's tools that you can really control in the platform itself, to enable that, but like I said, you could have even face to face, like what we're doing with our video chats, and that would bring in some sort of relatability. But still, it's it's, as long as you don't see the person in actual life, you know, it's it's a whole different experience. And that's something that, you know, it's going forward, that's something that would be again, mixed together in like a hybrid model, to some extent, a lot of schools that have the resources they are doing in person, okay, we have private schools, independent schools, they have the resources, they have the funding. And they can, you know, create that six feet apart distance in the class, and also support students online at the same time, for the students who don't want to come to the class. For for other scenarios, such as public school system, that's a little different. Because what's happening now is more students, instead of coming to class, they want to just go online, because cases are rising again. So the need for online teachers of the game increased. And at the same time, we have teachers in class who are providing support. But again, like I said, the structure I feel is still not there completely, where the teachers are, you know, completely confident of being in the class and supporting the students in the class. Okay, so they still have that kind of uncertainty. And I feel going forward, that uncertainty will go down. Being that environment, it's natural for you to feel, you know, have that sense of being uncomfortable, because we don't have measures in place to protect against this, you know, novel coronavirus, and that will change going forward, there'll be more comfort in the class, eventually, there will be some sort of a hybrid model that will be put in place, obviously, online platforms will have changed drastically. Teachers will now not they will have if if ever they have to teach online, they wouldn't have. They will be there would be less resistance to that now. So that's another benefit. Technology definitely has. We, it's it's it's a perspective where a lot of, for example, teachers who would always say our technology has done this and this and this, you know, maybe having a negative point of view of what technology is doing. And now they see the benefits of technology that, you know, really makes a huge, huge difference. Right? If there was no technology learning would have stopped altogether. Right. And that's a that's a big, big benefit of living in this 21st century, even in the midst of a deadly virus. But you know, we have to tools in place that still make sure that we are connected and we don't lose contact and learning is still going on.   Pouya LJ  25:07 Yeah, it didn't. It. It helped to, you know, keep the momentum to a degree going, obviously, it, a lot of it got stopped and a lot of things got interrupted, for sure. But with a little bit of extra preparation and extra time. Yes, you're absolutely right. We got some of that momentum going. Online, he definitely online through technology. Yeah, absolutely. That's correct. And so speaking of So, I mean, obviously, the negatives are abundant and fairly obvious to degree, there were some that were not far off perhaps from somebody who doesn't have the perspective that you do. But nobody doubted that there is going to be a lot of negatives for students, teachers, the whole education system in the whole society, from every angle from this, but I honestly, I really like silver linings, I like to see things in a positive light and see what what positives actually came out of it. And part of it is what you said, We learned a lot, how we can mitigate technical use technology to mitigate the situation, whether this, and let's face it, who knows when the next pandemic hits, it could be 100 years, 200 years, it could be the next decade, it could be tomorrow, who hasn't seen after this. So point being we are living in a relatively new normal, even post vaccine, let's say there's going to be always that sense, at least for this generation that has experienced it. The sense that the immediacy of any kind of disaster, and how that can affect lives of people all around the world and education. So is there any positive we can take out of this? And and, you know, and improve upon it, make it better?   Kanwar  26:53 Yeah, definitely. Look. So with, we know, technology has been a benefit, we know that there are ways we can stay connected in terms of learning in terms of reaching out in terms of not losing contact, and that's a big, big benefit of in any industry for for that. And I feel going forward, one lesson that we have definitely learned is, you know, technology can really IID a lot of learning. In this case, it can actually even rip, to some extent it can replace, in class learning, and to a lot of extending can extend learning, right. So that replacement and extension is one thing. And again, everyone felt different with that. But the truth is, that is what technology helped us with. And we all feel really happy about that, because students are not like, they didn't feel that they're learning just stopped altogether. And that's one of the big lessons with, you know, this whole situation, how it has unfolded, we can still stay connected. Another big lesson, I would say is our reactions are adaptability to change. And that is something that you know, everyone has a different change threshold. Everyone can somebody can change. Within a day somebody can cheat it takes, you know, a year or two years to to make a big change. And with something like Coronavirus and with this whole situation. Now you don't have that flexibility to wait one or two years, you have to do it today. So it helped people push themselves. And you know, it's for some it would have been easy for some he would have been really challenging, but really walking through that. And really understanding Okay, this is for the betterment of the students, because in the education field, you always put the students first. They're at the center of everything that you do, and their needs come first. And that's really what it comes down to. Right. If you think about it from that lens. You know, I don't care about learning something new because I'm happy that and the students in my class are going to be not left behind. Right. And another big lesson with something like this, students now see, okay, the world is not full of bells and whistles its world is a nasty place to. And that's that is something that is you learn about in history, but now you're living it. And that's something that the students are experiencing for sure. And you know, there's a silver, big silver lining there because the students, the young generation, they have the capability to work in this industry where they can form solutions. There's a big, big research happening right now with the universal Right. And that's something that, you know, I'm I don't know how, what timeline we're looking at where this universal vaccine will exist for anything that would ever happen. You can imagine now, what was that ideology, we have these younger generation, who will, what, what's gonna happen is they will become more and more ambitious on, on taking on these challenges, and tackling these challenges because there's a immediate need, there's an actual need, it's not about making the world a better place. It's about protecting your world, it's about protecting and caring for the future generation, because the reality is, the virus impacts has impacted people across a whole different age group, right? It's initially was the older group, but now we have, we have seen trend where it's affecting everyone. And that's the bottom line. So everyone, if you think of it, from a humanity point of view, I feel like that's a big shift that will happen for the younger generation, because they would see the need, okay, you know, what, there is something out there and I can be part of the solution. Right, and not part of the problem. And that's, I feel it's a huge, huge silver lining in this whole situation. And I feel the students will really, and this is what we see all the time in the you know, we want to create citizens who are engaged, who are responsible, who are, you know, they want to make changes in their community, they want to make changes wherever they live, right, because change starts from your community, and then moves upward. But now, with the technology in place, you can really make a change through technology, and you can help each other out. So many possibilities has opened up. And that whole message of helping each other out and looking for each other looking out for each other. That's a big silver lining from this entire situation.   Pouya LJ  31:58 Yeah, that's very, very, very fair. And very positive. I liked the message. And I also want to for the last final point, I want to put the parents in focus, I suppose because I think from a very early on, especially, especially early on, and even now, you mentioned some of it, that they they're very engaged, very concerned, obviously about their children's education, their health and their family's health, etc. But on top of that, again, especially early on, and a lot of them still now have to enhance to, you know, handle the kids well, where previously they would send them to school, they would go to work themselves, now they have to work and at the same time, they have a kid at home and they're working at home or even if they're going outside to work if you're there, for example, first responders or what have you. Then what do you do with your with your child at home? Right, so that there has been a lot of challenges for parents. Obviously, the kids are not happy, they're acting up at times, they're, they're upset about the situation, you have to help them out. So there's there's, I think there were a lot of challenges coming our ways of parents more than ever before. Obviously, parenting is never easy. And number. Nobody ever said that. It's easy, but I think it was at a level up in the past few months. And I'm sure you had some experiences with the parents through their children that you're, you know, educating online or other ways. And did you have any? Do you have any words of I don't want to call it advice, but of consolation or anything that you want to talk to parents directly about or, you know, give them a message or give their message to us to the rest of us. Yeah.   Kanwar  33:49 One thing from I've just as a recent experience, where one of the parents, you know, that their child was sent back home, because their child was not feeling well. And, and the child shows up at home. And he says, mom, my stomach doesn't feel good, right? And my mother's like, What? Why doesn't few babies I got her. No, it doesn't feel good. And the mom said, Okay, did you go Did you poop this morning? And he said, No, I did not. And she like, do you have to poop? And he said, Yeah, I have to fuke and he goes to the washroom when it comes out and he's feeling finding starts playing outside. So the concern is in the air, okay. The concern is in the air. Now imagine from a kid's point of view, right kid, the kid is just being a kid. At their age, you know, they might have so many things going on, but we can't. We don't know for sure what we can pinpoint it on. Right. So there's that uncertainty from that point of view. And that applies to teachers. teachers could be concerned because they have kids at home. So the teachers who are parents, they are concerned, there's no simple answer to this, right? I can't, I can't say that no, if any, if somebody's feeling wonky, just let them be in the classroom. Because that I feel is, you know, we don't really know what it can be. And that would come down from the school, how the school is reacting to it, if the school says, okay, you know, this happens, it's okay, we can discount it. If not, then these are the policies we will have in place. Okay, and you follow that. And that's really what it comes down to is you'll have a consensus, everyone in the school agrees to what they're doing. And they have the parents on board. That's important, because the parents are not on board. Or, you know, it's not about putting parents on board, because you could have disagreements, but having ensuring the parents are communicated properly, so they know what's going to happen. And that will help parents really, you know, make arrangements to have to, because you don't The last thing you want is your kid showing up home and you have to go to work. Now. What are you going to do that? Right? It's a lot of uncertainty. You can imagine the pain on the parents behalf, like, what do I do now? And their frustration, right? their frustration with the school? Because they're like, okay, the schools open, and now you send my kid home, like, why would I send my kid to school, when something comes up, and you're gonna send it back to me. So if that was the case, I would have just kept mice tried at home. And that's really the unpredictability that we're seeing right now. Parents have to understand that if you're sending your kid to school, the intentions are, you know, the kid will get the opportunity to be in school in that environment. But there are a bunch of things that comes with it. And that's something that the whole family must be okay with. Because what happens if tomorrow, they say, the kid is having symptoms, and now you have to isolate? Right? The isolation 14 days, that means lost money, that could mean lost connection, it's so many things. And every situation is different, right? I can't I can't generalize it. Everyone have their own situation? And as a parent, if that's what you're deciding to do, you must have those things in place. Okay, what is my backup plan? What is plan? a? What is Plan B? If in the case that my child was to come home? Okay, can one parent be at home work remotely? Can we have those? some sort of a system in place? Or can have extended family? Can I give my kids to someone else? Who can take care? Or can I go, if I have a cottage, can we go to the cottage and isolated the cottage, a lot of those. Those are the important things that have to be thought before you make the decision of sending your child to school because I've have seen parents where they just get frustrated with the whole situation, because they had not expected the child to be sent home. Right. So you have to be prepared for that. And for parents, who are first responders, parents who are in the line of work where they protect people, you know, it's it comes down to what you decide as a parent. But the bottom line is this, we know the virus is deadly, we know the virus, you know, it's still out there, it's not completely gone off the face of the planet. So you have to keep in mind that we are living in a new world, which means that the kids still have to go to the school, they still have to do some sort of learning. But Add to that the fact that we are living in a different world now. Okay, so that's something because it could happen. And I've seen even for myself, where, you know, you can start to get more and more complacent in terms of Okay, you know, what, I don't see much going on around me. So I think I'm okay. You know, and but that's looking at your local lens. But if you really look at the global what's going on. Again, that is not the case. Right? And we have to always keep in mind that okay, we are living in a new reality. And this is what I want. These are my goals. I want my kid to get some learning, can I can I send my kid to school, knowing that they can be asked to be tested? And that means going to code center and you know, that's another four to five hours you have to wait in line. Am I ready to do that? Or am I rather me rather okay with not sending my child to school, having them stay at home and learn? And do I have something in place where someone else is at home? With the child right? So those Are the those are the two situations that all the parents are really dealing with right now, in addition to their own full time, whatever they do. So it's not easy. It's not it's definitely made parenting, I would say 1000 times more challenging.   40:17 And   Kanwar  40:18 especially when you have both parents as working, imagine both parents as first responders, it just changes a whole whole scenario what to do now. And that's really, I feel the pickle. But really, having those goals sorted out would make it much, much easy, manageable, in a sense to tackle with, okay, if this can happen, okay, that's, that's okay. Because we have something in place to manage that. Because that would bring a sense of comfort, less frustration. And at the same time, you know, the learning will go on. And that's really should be the goal, right, the learning will go on, and the learning should never stop.   Pouya LJ  41:02 Yeah, and let's hope that and let's hope everything improves, not regress, I suppose that's, that's all we can do. We can basically, this is a situation we have to deal with, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, and that's a nobody likes it. And some have it worse than others, of course, yeah. And some have it better and, but at the end of the day, all of us have to deal with something new that mostly we don't want to exactly our ideal, but that's life. And then things happen. Obviously, we want to be proactive about these things and make sure they don't happen in the first place. But we also want to be prepared for the possibility of them happening. And that's the lesson we should carry on, I think, moving forward. But at the same time, we're not done with this. And we have to think about all aspects. And and I think one of the things that helps me a lot to deal when I'm dealing with other people especially is that I put myself in their shoes and understand their pain. And that helps me generate some empathy that otherwise I would not be able to where I would judge them harshly. Definitely unnecessarily. So yeah, let's let's hope for the better. And thank you, camera for joining us for this illuminant illuminating conversation.   Kanwar  42:12 Thank you for having me. It's great to have this really important discussion and the world we live in right now.

How many times have you set a goal for yourself just to see nothing happened after a few months? The truth is that you cannot achieve your goals, you can only come up with a series of habits that once repeated often and long enough would lead to the achievement of your goals.    In this episode Daniel will discuss system thinking as opposed to goal thinking so that our focus is shifted away from merely what we want and towards creating the systems that will lead to getting what we desire.    Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS habits, goal, system, achieve, mandarin chinese, spend, pandemic, routines, social media, life, chinese, practice, income, morning, repeat, app, instagram, replacing, single, olympics SPEAKERS Dan   Dan  00:13 Hello, and welcome to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast, this solo edition. My name is Daniel Molgan. And welcome to this program where today we're going to talk about the issue of goal setting by means of creating a system. As opposed to just having our goals in our heads. You see, guys, traditional goal setting tells us that if you want to achieve a goal, just set a goal, I want to do this, for example, I want to lose weight, I want to run my own business, I want to run for the office, I want to get married, so on and so forth, you can you know, set all these goals for yourself. And that's, of course, all great. We have taught this to all of our basically graduates of our programs again and again. But the fact of the matter is that Unfortunately, most cases, having a goal alone does not allow you to actually achieve it if you just have that goal in your head and are not creating the systems required to make them happen. So we're actually going to talk about the issue of what it really means to put places basically, in your schedule, where you have certain activities where you are doing them again and again and again, to achieve your goals. So what is the difference between a goal and a system? A goal is what you want to achieve in your life. For example, I want to lose weight, I want to learn to speak Mandarin Chinese, I want to find the love of my life. These are sending them simple examples of having a goal for yourself. Now, what is a system? A system is what you should be doing regularly and repeatedly to achieve those goals. So think of for example, those three goals I gave you earlier, for example, you want to learn Mandarin Chinese, that's a goal. Now how can you actually create a system to make that happen, you may say, I will download this specific app with a reminder every morning, that will tell me to practice some Mandarin Chinese for about 15 minutes every morning, pray go to work. That's exactly one of my routines that I've done for him for many years now. And this is now a system. A system is a habit, and a process that you engage in regularly to achieve your goals. Unfortunately, most of us were not so good at creating those systems, we think about the goals like listen, I want to do this, for example, I wants to find the love of my life, right? That's a simple goal that a lot of people have. But people rarely think about what kind of system do I need to put in place, or I will engage in certain types of behavior on a regular basis in order to achieve that goal. So for this goal, for example, you can say, I will start talking to an attractive member of the opposite gender, once every day for the next 30 days, until I find someone that actually matches basically my desire as well as my criteria for a good partner. And this now is a system. So anytime you leave the house, the brain says, alright, I have a task today, I must talk to one attractive lady today. And hopefully, one of them will be the kind of woman that I want as my wife as a mother of my children, and so on and so forth. Right. So now you have a system. So you don't even think about the goal. And that's the beauty of having a system. You see, if instead of thinking about just your goals, you create systems that will lead to the achievement of that goal, you don't even have to think about your goals. So the man who says I will practice Chinese 50 minutes, basically every day using this particular app before going to work, he doesn't have to think about his goal of becoming fluent Mandarin Chinese in 234, or five years. If he just repeats that system regularly, he will get there. The same thing applies to the man who wants to find a good wife, the guy who goes and talks an attractive lady once per day every day for I don't know, 30 days or two months or three months, he or she will eventually find the right partner, even if he forgets about the original goal of getting married, and having a family because in the process of going through the system of meeting, for example, one attractive lady every day talking to her to see if she's a good match. And then perhaps inviting her asking her out on a date to actually see if she's going to be a good fit. He will eventually find you know the right woman for him. And it's just going to be part of the system, regardless of what the goal was originally, right. So perhaps, maybe the original goal was to become fluent and let's say Mandarin Chinese, and instead of actually studying Mandarin, he says I'm going to play this Chinese for example game every morning. And after a while, instead of focusing on the you know, learning the Chinese he gets hooked up on the game elements of that Chinese game. So the original goal is not forgotten. Completely. And now he's This system is focused now on getting good at this game, instead of learning the Mandarin Chinese. so in this situation since the system is, you know, inclined to focus on the game, rather than the language, in the long term, of course, he will fail to at the target of achieving that, you know, fluency, which means we never fail in goal setting. We all do it all the time. Now, some of us, we don't set them as often as we should. But you rarely if ever fail in achieving your goals, because you did not set the goal. That's just not going to happen. And unfortunately, in most cases, we fail to achieve our goals, because we fail to set the right systems in place that if we're good enough, would allow us to achieve those goals. So today, I would like you guys to think more about this issue. Think about goal setting a new way, as opposed to just goals and deadlines, which we use traditionally, ask yourself, instead of being obsessed with whether or not is the right goal, what kind of system can I set in place for me to actually work on those things on a regular basis? That's what you have to focus on most of the time. So when it comes to setting systems to achieve those goals, obviously the question is, what types of activities, if done regularly, will get me closer to achieving that goal, I've already given two examples, learning language, raising a family, but this could really apply to anything. Let's move on to business, you say, I want to increase my income by 25%. In the middle of a recession fueled by pandemic, that's right. During the same time, where a lot of businesses are shutting down, there are a few entrepreneurs who are actually increasing their income. Why? Because they have the goal to you know, make more money? I don't think so. You see, all businesses would like to increase their income. I mean, that's by default, no one business do you know, anyone business was like, No, I don't want to make money, I want to make less money. So it's kind of like you know, the Olympics, when it goes to the Olympics, and you look at all the athletes, one of them is going to be, you know, the gold medal winner, right. So one of them will be the number one top winner of that competition. So the person or the people who do not achieve that goal, and settle for the, let's say, silver medal or the bronze medal or simply cannot win any metal, do you think that those guys do not have the goal of becoming an Olympic champion. Of course, not. Every single person who takes part in the Olympics wants to be the champion, every business owner would like to increase their income. Every time you talk to basically an attractive member of the opposite gender, your goal is to hopefully have the best possible relationship with a suitable mate to raise a family with. Anytime you want to learn a subject you really want to get. I mean, you really want to get good. For example, at speaking Chinese you have the goal, you have the desire. So the problem here is not the goal. Because goal is there and everybody has them. The question is, do you have the right system. So the winner of the Olympic is going to be the person who has in basically in place, a system that allowed him or her to practice in the right way repeatedly, until having that body and that ability that allowed him or her to win the Olympics, the same thing goes with businesses who succeed in the middle of a pandemic, or those who are had with their relationships or achieve their educational goals. So from today, I'm trying to encourage you guys to look at goals a little bit differently, away from what is my goal, and focus more on what system do I need to put in place to achieve them? Now, systems generally, are links to habits, that means that almost everything we do these days, it's because of the habits that we have generated before. Most of us actually are running on autopilot most of the time. And because of this, you need to ask yourself, what kind of habits do I want to generate for myself, in order to achieve the kind of life that I have? So right now, every single one of you guys listening right now, you have certain habits, probably many of them that you repeat on a daily basis. Some of you wake up in the morning, and the first thing you do is to grab that phone and jump on social media. That's a very common habit. Some of you have a habit of wicked one morning and immediately, the moment you you know, you're afoot for example, such as the, you know, the, let's say floor, you start doing meditation. Some of you have a habit of wicked, I'm saying, oh, gosh, not another Tuesday. I'm so tired. You see, that's just one single habit. Maybe then you move on. Maybe some of you have a habit of waking up and just lighting up a cigarette. So these are all habits. And then we go throughout the day, repeating these habits, and thinking that this is just a habit. It's just too Aim. But ironically, changing your destiny and achieving the kind of goal that you really want for yourself is only possible if you start to look at the habits that you have every single day, and then try to, you know, change that. What essential aspects again, How the hell did you learn all these languages? Like, how do you do that? I say very simple. What do you do when you have your phone with you? They say, Well, I checked social media all the time. So I spell it, it's like, How much time do you spend on Instagram, for example, or on Facebook, and they say, well, three, four hours per day, I say, three to four hours. And there's a lot of good material in there, I just try to look at them, there's pretty fun. I say, Well, I spent about two and a half hours every day on practicing different languages. So you see, during the same time that you are browsing through useless posts, of celebrities, and like, you know, brainless entertainment on social media, which is a habit by the way for you every single day, checking people's stories, and all those things I am doing my flashcards I am practicing, you know, let's say my language is using my favorite apps such as Duolingo, memorize, and so on. So this is a habit. So when I work in the morning, the first thing I do is, as you already guessed, to do my Mandarin Chinese practice, because that's the hardest thing that I'm currently studying. And of course, I have to practice a lot, of course, then I move on to the other tasks. So I tell myself, if I have not done my Mandarin Chinese practice, which is, by the way, not that long, it takes no more than 15 minutes of my time, every morning, I'm not going to move on to the next task unless I have a very serious emergency. And then you ask yourself, alright, so I should probably cut back on Instagram, then I can do whatever I want. Not so much. So because if you want to get rid of a bad habit, you have to have the right again system in place to get you to towards what you want. So ultimately, it doesn't matter what your goals are, if you don't have the right habits, and the right routines, you can never possibly achieve them. You're saying well, then I want to be financially wealthy. I asked you one simple question. What are your financial systems in place? They're saying What are you talking about my financial system, a financial system is the way you approach your money. So right now, think about, you know, your income during the last month. Okay. Think of you know, last month, which for most of you guys, of course, if you're listening to us, you know, recently would be September. So think of your income in the month of September? How much did you earn? And then go back to your let's say, for example, of financial app, and then perhaps, or your bank app? And then look at your expenses? So how much did you basically spat using your master Visa card during the last month? And then compare these two? Did you make the same amount of money that you actually spent all of it? Did you perhaps managed to spend less than you earned? Or did you actually spend more than you earn, and added some credit on the side? So that's a simple habit, a very simple habit of not spending more than you earn. But guess what happens? Think of someone who has one simple system in place. And his entire financial system can be summed up by one thing. I look at my income during last month, that's a month of September. And let's say the amount was $6,000, for example, and I tell myself, that I must spend less than $6,000 during the month of October. So what do you think the future of this person looks like financially? do you predict him to go broke all of a sudden? Is that likely? Probably not? And what about the opposite? What if somebody actually is making $4,000 a month, and is just going to spend all of it? So what type of future will he have probably always dependent on the next paycheck, like most Americans, or think of somebody else who has probably made two or $3,000. And things are tough in the economy, and actually spent 5000 we're gonna future Do you see for him or her financially? You see, ultimately, your life is shaped by the habits and the systems you have in place that you repeat on a regular basis, because anything applies to your fitness. So how often do you go to the gym? How often do you care about what you're eating? How often do you, you know, take care of your basically amount of hours that you put into, you know, your sleep, having a good night, good nicely. You see, ultimately, once you try to look at your life and yourself as a series of habits that you have, then all of a sudden realize, oh boy, all I got to do is change a few of my habits, and whammo, my entire life will change. So today I'm actually asking right now, think about your life right now, at this moment. From the moment you wake up until you go to bed. What habits are you repeating good or bad? Think of some good habits that you can actually add to your life right now what could they be? Perhaps going for a jog every morning? Instead of letting a cigarette or having, you know, very heavy coffee? How about replacing the habit of social media as I have done, you probably have noticed this. After finishing the book together, I actually substantially I reduced my social media, basically usage to a very minimum, of course, in terms of usage, I'm probably close to zero. Now, I almost do not consume any material on social media. But of course, I've also reduced my postings as well, because I wanted to have that time available to do other things. Right. So how about replacing excessive usage of social media? with some other beneficial educational activity? How about replacing Instagram? Not completely, of course. But let's say you spend one or two hours per day on Instagram, how about spending only 10 minutes on Instagram, and then dedicate the rest of that time to studying a foreign language to learning a new trade, getting an online education, where there's I don't know, MBA, or whatever it is, what about, you know, putting that time for your health? How about using that time to exercise you see, by nearly changing these little things you do every single day, and then repeating those again, and again, and again, you will then change your destiny in ways you cannot even think of as possible today, because those changes are going to somehow accumulate, and they will exponentially change your life in the long term. So today, as you're currently listening, I want you right now, to go through your entire routines every single day. Maybe you spend a little bit too much time playing Dota. Maybe you spend a lot of time watching Netflix, even though you don't even like it so much. Perhaps you're not physically active enough? How could you change some of these things? How would you find ways for you to create and installed new habits in your life that will allow you to repeat good behaviors and avoid bad ones. Because ultimately, once you have the right systems in place, for example, for going to gym, you can create a system. And the system is anytime I leave work, I immediately go home, grab basically my, let's say, yours and run to the gym. That's one system. Or you can simply have a system that come You know, you come home, and you grab that beer, and you start you know, drinking beer watching TV, both our systems, but they will have dramatically different results in the long term. So having discussed all of these things today, I would like to now encourage you guys to take this very seriously and start looking at your life as a series of habits fueled by their own systems that you repeat again and again and again, throughout the day, day after day, week, after week, month after month, year after year, you are your habits, you are your routines. There are moments in the middle that you break all that routine, and you start traveling and you go to a party. But those are not what you do regularly unless that's your job or something. So for most of us, we have to look at the things we do on a routine basis. And now of course, thanks to the pandemic, a lot of us we have, you know, more time available to spend indoors. And this gives us a great chance to reflect again, you can go home during a pandemic and say, Well, I got nothing to do, let me just waste another two hours on the darn social media. Or you can take that time to start reflecting itself a system that allows you to make your life better and better by thinking about what you're doing right now and how you can take it to the next level. So ultimately, today, I wanted to encourage you to relook at your life differently, to see yourself as nothing more than a series of routines that you repeat again and again and again. And understanding that if you want to change your destiny, if you want to change your life, you don't just need to create new goals. I mean, that's just very obvious. But more importantly, than having new goals is to creating new systems and habits that will allow you to achieve those goals and get the best results possible. So overall, that's all the time we have for today. I really would like to thank all of you for your attention. The podcast, fortunately, is becoming more and more popular among our listeners. And we would like to thank all of you for tuning in for every single episode to check all of our programs. As you realize now we have a lot of new additions to our podcast and we're trying to offer you as much as possible. And obviously if you have any questions you can always contact us directly or simply wishes on the social media. That's all the time we have for my name is Daniel Morgan and this was beyond the present podcast.

Fuzzy logic is an approach to computing based on "degrees of truth" rather than the usual "true or false" (1 or 0) Boolean logic on which the modern computer is based.  It is a form of many-valued logic in which the truth values of variables may be any real number between 0 and 1 both inclusive.   Govind's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gov218/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/govindmohan218/?originalSubdomain=ca   Deep's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neuronsrcool/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Deepneuron LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deepprasad/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS reality, true, logic, people, thinking, idea, language, point, universe, objective reality, humans, thought, fuzzy, experiment, paradox, nature, question, probability, false, thoughts SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Govind, Deep   Pouya LJ  00:16 Hey guys, how's it going?   Govind  00:19 Nice, amazing. Toronto. Good weather.   00:23 Yeah, no, it's surprisingly hot. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  00:29 So it's been a while, since we talked. Let's see each of you. What's up with you. Let's start with you guff?   Govind  00:39 Well, for those that don't know, I have a startup called Virtual systems that focuses on network security using information theory, principles, and networking, to have a flat internet that's not built on data centers where data privacy can be controlled by the user, as opposed to any corporate corporation that is controlling your data, which is the case these days. So that's a little bit of my background. I like a lot of things like mathematics, philosophy, computer science, and software development.   Pouya LJ  01:11 Well, that's for philosophy. All right, I bet you the What's up? What's up with you?   Deep  01:18 Um, yes. First of all, I just want to say that just sounds like the life of a polymath, so I can really appreciate that right on COVID. Yeah, so I similar to COVID. I also run my own startup, we do quantum computing. Instead, we are looking to use quantum computers to accelerate the materials discovery timeline. Right. So right now we do a lot of things that are mostly trial and error based plus some compute, for doing materials discovery, let's say you want to discover a new cathode or new electrode material, right? How are you going to do that? We want to automate that process and and speed it up by thousands if not millions. That's our goal. It's pretty ambitious, but that's what we do you everyday, or try to do. Uh huh. Yeah. So that's what I've been up to.   Pouya LJ  02:11 Yeah. Thanks. That's amazing. Are you in Toronto?   Deep  02:14 Yes. Good.   Pouya LJ  02:15 Good. You're enjoying this weather?   Deep  02:17 Totally. Yeah. So nice. weather wise will enjoy it. Well, us.   Pouya LJ  02:21 Yeah. Well, that's true. That's going on soon. Probably next week. Still not that bad? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Anyways, so today, we are tackling a subject that I am very inept in? I have no idea. I mean, I know abstractly what it is, but I don't have any readings on it. I think you guys are more educated on this than me. But let's see how it goes. So we're talking about a bunch of different stuff. Actually, it's not one thing, but it's centered at logic propositions. And quantifiers. Do you want it? So this was the pathway was introduced to this conversation was introduced by golf? Do you want to start it off yourself?   Govind  03:06 Sure. Um, so when we think about logic, what comes to mind? Generally, it's things like, debate, you know, things that logic is associated with, or things like debate, and truth and false, maybe people who are in software development or would think of code. You know, there there are so many of these, these these concepts that come to your mind when you think of the word logic. You know, what, maybe maybe you guys can chime in with like, premium fallacy. When I say the word logic, one of the one of the things you think about,   Pouya LJ  03:35 no, I think I mean, I guess it depends on their perspective, as you were saying, but I think what you're saying it makes sense. I think, generally, people think about logic as reasoning, like step by step thinking. Thinking about, like, it depends, if you're asking a philosopher is a little bit different than a mathematician than a software, regular person going about their lives, not thinking about these things. But I think that just remains for most people.   Govind  04:05 Sure, what am I?   Deep  04:07 Yeah, when I think of logic, I think of two things, the more intuitive idea of logic, which is what I think every human has, right? We like to all believe that we're logical beings, right? What does that mean? We all know that mean something when I say it, but what does so I think, the intuitive idea that humans are logical insofar as they have a set of consistent rules that you can codify that have some sort of basis, right, you can derive next set of actions based on a set of let's say, axiom true principles, right. And they're logical in nature. For example, humans get hungry where you're cutting off I don't is that does that me or?   Govind  04:46 Oh, I can I can hear him fine. I think   Pouya LJ  04:48 that's me.   Deep  04:50 Do you want me to restart for you?   Pouya LJ  04:53 Okay, now that's better. Sorry. Okay. Sure. That's fine. Continue. Sorry.   Deep  04:56 Sure. So I was just saying that like from from the preset preset Something that's logical, or I would consider as logical is the idea of hunger, right? Like when a human is hungry? What would be logical next is that they're going to try to get food. Right? To me that's logical. And that and so that's an intuitive logic or system of systems are sets of logics that we just know from by nature. Then I think of the logic, when when when Govan asked me, What do I think when you know about logic, right? Like what comes to mind? Or how would I define it and whatnot. The second one is the formal, abstract idea of logic that we humans have that I think that maybe other creatures don't have. And and that's the mathematical ability or the mathematical perspective of logic, where you can look at, you can create systems like Boolean logic, you can generalize Boolean logic and look at how you can construct quantum computations in Universal computations. And propositional logic is totally different than what I just talked about. And so that's all these things are abstract logics, and it's different than the intuitive logic, sometimes.   Govind  06:07 Yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's a great way of like, you know, describing the entire breadth of what logic? Thanks. Well, I think it comes down to the concept of truth and false, right, because you have to start with things you know, are true. And then you string these things that are true in certain ways that allows you to create certain implications, right? You, you, you start with a few facts, like, as a classic one, all men are mortal. Socrates is a man. Therefore, Socrates is mortal, right? You know, you have these propositions you have you start with these facts, and then you put them together using some inference rules. But what I wanted to discuss in today's topic, as today's topic is this concept of truth and false itself. We really, as humans, we take truth and false kind of for granted as a discrete binary thing, right? You have something that's true, and it's not true, it's false. But is that really the case? And to further grounded discussion, I have a few quotes from this book. It's called fuzzy thinking. And it has it really explores this concept of how truth can be continuous or fuzzy, right? It's it's not it's not truth. It's like an on off switch. But it's actually like, on and goes all the way to off with like, several, maybe infinite steps in the way. So one quote I really like is, there was a mistake, and everyone in science seemed to make it. They said that all things were true or false. They were not always sure which things were true and which were false. But they were sure that all things were either true or false. So I thought that that is a really cool quote, because it points out this fact that this is really taken for granted, we don't really think about, you know, like, What is it? What does it mean for something to be true or false. And another quote, I think, would be interesting not to make this all the quotes I made this last one is a quote from Albert Einstein. So far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they're not certain. And so far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. Because, I mean, if you say something is true or false, the universe does not give a shit, you know, universe is going to do whatever it's doing. And we're just we're just creating these models where we say, Okay, these things are true, these things are false. And, and we're going to construct our models of reality based on it. But these models of reality are pretty much mental experiments that we perform across humans right? Now, it just so happens that it happens to be incredibly good at modeling reality, to the point where people can get confused and say that reality works based on the principles that we create, and the facts that we create, the things that we assign as true or false is what is allowing reality to work the way it is. But it's it's always important to know that there's this detachment between what's reality and what's what's, you know, our our collective, our thought experiment, which is, you can call it mathematics, philosophy, whatever any anything that we have, when we come together, we have discussions, even discussions like what we're having right now. They're, they're just, like, there's a separation from this and reality. And this is kind of exemplified by what's known as the law of the excluded middle in, in logic. So where if you have a proposition a, let's say, let's just call it P let's let's work in the realm of the abstracts, if you have a proposition p p could be something like, this is a fruit or a gob is a person, you know, things like that things, something that I can assign a truth value to true or false. So the law of the excluded middle is that for all propositions P, P, or not B, that is something can either be true or not true. Now, this this sounds like stupid, simple, right? It sounds kind of like okay, sure, something can either be true or false. But now, what's crazy is that several mathematicians in over the 20th century, were actually pushing back against including this principle and logic, they were saying, No, I want to construct a mathematics which doesn't have p or not p that is, p or not P is actually not true. According to these people. They were called the intuitionists. And this cause Like a massive, massive debate back in the 20th century. But I'll pause here and I'll get some comments from you guys like what do you think such a mathematics could actually look like?   10:11 So   Deep  10:12 the first thing that comes to mind is the idea of structural realism. Structural realism basically posits that whatever scientific and mathematical understanding that we get of the universe, it does not necessarily reflect on the true structure and nature of the universe, right? So, if you have a quote, of creations that describe gravity at the macroscopic scale, that does not mean that those equations are the true structure and nature of reality. And that's important because when we're, as you sort of alluded to Govan, like when we define something to be true or false, nature doesn't give a shit. Right, so to speak. And that's like, like, interesting enough, there's a philosophical question right there. Because what if it happens that structural realism is false. And ironically, there is some sort of mathematical truism, at least in the physics perspective, that we can define, and that it is actually a true reflection of reality. It is objectively the truth. Right? Like, we may not, it may actually be possible, who knows? So there and because we haven't actually answered that, you know, what I mean, that that philosophical idea yet, whether structural realism, is true or not, is very hard to it. Yeah, extend or resolve the conflicts that have occurred in the 20th century from logic? Because this is just an extension of that. What do you think?   Govind  11:50 Um, well, I think this this, this time in history was very interesting, you know, because, well, maybe, like, some historical context would be that, you know, this is the first time you have like, several extremely smart people from across the world coming together and creating a global, you know, like, hey, let's tackle the biggest questions in, in humanity, like any point in your thinking, right? So like, and I think this kind of resulted in probability, right? probability is something that emerged from the 20th century, I mean, some could argue the roots extend way back, but you know, like the roots for everything, then way back. But the reason I bring up probability in this in this argument is like, as, as humans now in the 21st century, we, our process of science is so fundamentally grounded in probability, right? Like, to the point where our models of reality are the closest models of reality, we have use probability necessarily, right? Think of all the discussions you've had with your friends regarding COVID, or all these other things. Most people tend to make arguments related to probability and case fatality rates, you know, these kind of like, almost baseball statistics, right? Like I say, baseball statistics, just to kind of ground that and make it more like, you know, you see where I'm going with this, right? It's just that probability has created this kind of way that of making seen things our model seems so real, that you can actually see them and you can actually see their measure their impact on them. Right, this in fact, in mathematics, this the, let's call it the backbone of probability is called measure theory. Right. And I think this kind of lends itself to, well, some of the stuff you're working on, right, the quantum models of reality. So I think I think structural realism is something that is extremely effective, because it's, it's, it works on observations of reality, behind the scenes, and it actually kind of gets there. I mean, I'm using structural realism, maybe I'm, I'm conflating it with some mathematical context that are quantitation that it does not come with out of the box. I hope, I hope my point is clear.   Deep  13:51 Yeah, I understand your point completely. Um, quia. What do you think about this idea of an objective truth in nature? Um, do you think that it actually exists? And should we possess it? logic around that idea? Or the, or the rejection of the idea? Yeah. How important should that rule be?   Pouya LJ  14:12 Um, that's a very good question. Actually, I have started this long project, which is in the background for my own sake, I actually came up thought of this question a while back. I mean, everybody thought of thinks about these things, but more seriously started thinking about this insert. Getting onto some avenue to, you know, think about Yes. Is there an objective reality? And then that's literally the question to ask myself that started me on this journey. And you know, I I talk to some people from different walks of life, from psychology to philosophy to physics and what have you, some people who are at the top of their fields. I didn't. I mean, I did ask them this question, which is not the point. But from there our conversation, my conversation with them. What I got is that, no, from, from, from the real essence of the question, like the deepest sense of the question. And what I gather from all of those conversation conversations is that, again, we not the way we understand our world, our universe, maybe there is maybe there is a formalism that will get us there. But at least not with anything we have this, you know, far we've gotten discovery in science and philosophy thought. So. I, I think ultimately there is that's just a guesswork, obviously, like hypothesizing, but not in the sense that. So, let me put it this way. So for example, when GM Govan was saying that there's a spectrum of truth, I think that is, that is, that is true, until you get to the, to the resolution to the, to the, to the pixel of reality, essentially, at some point, it has to be one or the other. But we didn't get there yet. So that's my sense of it. That's my sense is that yes, it will eventually be some sort of objectiveness in reality, but it requires a better understanding of that reality that the fundamental laws of our universe, and that is not just gravity, gravity is, for example, gravity is emergent, from my perspective, and that that sense?   Govind  16:49 Well, I think you're gonna be happy, because initially, you wanted this discussion to be more about the nature of reality. And I think it's creeping into there. So I'll talk a little bit about the nature of reality as examined by Western philosophers. So there's a Descartes, notably, in the in the history of Western philosophy in like, let's say, the early modern period, which is like on 1600s, to like present day, or 1600 to 1800, is about the early modern period, we had these different movements, we started with rationalism, which is that, you know, like, we just, we just say things like, create these elaborate logical models. And then, and then we, we kind of examine, we use this as descriptions of reality. And then this kind of God rejects. And notably, Rene Descartes was kind of like a huge figure in this movement, because he said things like, the mind is its own soft, separate substance. And to tie that back to this discussion, what I was saying earlier about the realm of, of imaginary, thought experiments that we work with, in different fields like mathematics, computer science, and so on. He thought that it was its own separate universe that was completely detached from our, the universe that we live in. And he, I mean, these are the things he's saying, right? Like, I mean, he could be right, he could be wrong, but like, he's like, he's using logic as a means to tie together his his arguments. But at the end of the day, these are just things he's saying. And he's just using logic to create an elaborate story, an elaborate logical model. And this is the criticism that the next movement kind of gave to the rationalists. They were called the empiricist. People like David Hume, and I think mill or Locke, john Locke was in there. But they were like, hey, you're just saying things, you know, you're just you're just creating, you're just like, this is basically a story that I'm reading. And you're just like, Well, God is this and God is that. Savage. Exactly. And they're like David Hume, one of his famous philosophical quotes is like, you know, you can, you can't say for sure that the sun is gonna rise tomorrow, we see it rise every day. And we take it for granted, we have these explanations for it. But at the end of the day, these are just explanations, you know, I mean, at this point, they hadn't invented spacecraft and all that stuff yet, you know, they couldn't just go up there and see the sun.   Deep  19:09 Well, even then, like it did, there's still a philosophical point to that, like, even then we may not, despite everything we know, today, you know, I mean, the sun might not rise like there's   Govind  19:21 exactly that's, that's, that's   Deep  19:22 apparently physical reasons. I'm not even saying like magical reasons. But yeah,   Govind  19:26 So so they completely dismiss these, the rationalist arguments using this, it's like, if I don't see it, you know, it doesn't exist. So, you know, show me the proof, show me the reality of things. Got it. Um, and eventually, this kind of got resolved somewhat by Kant, Emmanuel Kant, who came in the, I believe, late 1700s, early 1800s. And he, he, he's like, Okay, guys, how do we resolve this? Because there's clearly some value in using logic to describe reality. And there's definitely value in talking about things that we can see and perceive and sense right. So his Way of reconciling this was to say that was to bring in the human aspect of things like how we perceive things. And he thought that that played an important role. In fact, what we call space time, were intuitions, he described them as intuitions. So humans have an intuition of space and an intuition of time, which is what allows us to perceive these things in reality. To make that more clear, he's he's telling the Emperor says, Hey, the things that you think you perceive, so clearly, maybe they're not that clear, you know, you are trapped behind your veil of perception at the end of the day. And again, like this is all to talk about the objective nature of reality, right? As humans, we can't help but be stuck behind the fact that everything we're perceiving is just what we're perceiving. There's another quote from Descartes, you know, it's, I think, therefore I am. It's one of like, the most famous quotes from philosophy, I think. But it's, it's basically that, for him thinking was such a rational endeavor, right? He thinks that just because he has this stuff running on in his head, like this voice that goes like, blah, blah, blah, and in his head, that's, that's why he knows for real, that He exists, like, no matter what, I have this thing that allows me to, like, perceive and like, you know, like, I don't know, if you guys are real, I don't know, my computer's I know, there's something going on here. You know, that's kind of his point there. And Kant was saying, you know, there's a human element of things you just can't strip away from, from anything real, right. So that's a little bit of a background in this in, well, let's say Western philosophical thinking about this, this this topic.   Deep  21:27 That's awesome. Um, and, you know, a lot of its circles, it's all circling and tying back in to itself in an interesting way. And here's what I mean by that. So, to your point about how deep you know, probability is in quantum mechanics, right? It plays a huge role, a fundamental role. For literally since the birth of it, you know, physicists both on the quantum computing and sorry, quantum physics side of things, and the classical physics side of things, believed that there should be some sort of a clear description of the wavefunction and information that we can eventually have access to and predict perfectly. So like, just, there's there was this idea that we'll eventually be able to predict the exact nature of the collapse, the wave function will know when it will collapse, and into what outcome it will collapse, rather than just knowing the probability. And you know, fast forward 100 years later, we've made essentially zero progress in making that stochastic process any less stochastic to us. And so it's really like sad react Sony, right? Like for the people who, who believe like, go when you and I've had tons of discussions about determinism and whether the universe is and Buddha unites was actually all three of us. And so quantum mechanics quickly touches on that. And then there's the objective reality question. There's the witness friend paradox. experiments, right that were recently conducted, again, two years ago, where you had two different labs instead, posing as a weakness friend, basically, it's a witness paradox is a paradox that was created in the 60s it was proposed by the famous physicist Wagner, and essentially, what he said was that if there are given the fact that the wavefunction encodes the all the possible measurables and observables, for a given observer, then the wavefunction is going to be different for different observers. And if that's true, then they're going to have eventually conflicting facts about the universe. And so he said, that's a paradox, right? And it turns out that it's true that two years ago, in those days, it is insane, because two years ago, we actually ran these quantum physical experiments where we took a well being split using beamsplitters, we essentially used quantum entangled photons. And we've been into two different labs, and you have people, you have what's called witness friends inside the lab, and then Wagner or like the observers outside the lab. And so all four people in this experiment, none of them can observe each other. We're measuring each other's photons directly, they can perform measurements to see if a measurement hasn't done, but they can't. Yeah, so that so if you want to think about it physically, they're splitting at the end of the experiment, one particle that was turned into four quantum entangled pairs, so through Bell state pairs and beamsplitters you really have these so if you want visualize that, so imagine, like I take a ball of physical ball, and I cut it in four pieces, and I give it right to four different people. Here's a weird thing about the huge We're gonna experiment what ended up happening is that Imagine if I asked those four people to look at, if I to record the color of their ball, right, let's say I cut up a red ball. And and I gave a piece to everybody, everybody has a red ball in theory right? v a piece that's red. What ended up happening is that these people, of course, were quantum mechanics, there's one caveat, right? You can expect the ball to change colors, that's fine, you can, you can expect it to change either red or green. So that's let's say, you can measure spin up, spin down totally fine. What and what what we did was, let's say I did this, I took a red ball, I gave it to four of my friends. And then they did measurements, knowing that it'll change red, green, red, green, sometimes. I, it turns out that when they did those measurements, and they all got back to each other, and they looked at their lists, and the measurements that they did on each individual piece themselves, the colors didn't add up. So So I so imagine this, like, imagine if I looked at my list, and I observed red, green, green, red, green, red, and you observe green, green, green, green, green, red. So you were looking at a different piece of the ball. How's that even possible? When I physically split the same objective ball? It's not it's, well, technically you shouldn't have been, but it is like, in fact, what's happening is that literal conflict and objective facts about reality, where you have people who participated in a physical experiment, use the same physical measurement tools and came up with different conflicting facts   Govind  26:31 that is completely wild. Yeah, no, that's physics anymore. You know, this is like something just so beyond anything.   Deep  26:41 Yeah, I mean, it is very edgy. Yeah. See? What we know, dude.   Govind  26:45 Yeah. Oh, my God. That's, that's insane. Everyone reminds me of the banach tarski paradox, right? Like, I mean, these kind of things happen on mathematics, and we're totally fine with it. Right. So the banach tarski paradox is like, imagine you have a sphere, a sphere that's composed of like, let's, let's call them like, an infinite number of droplets that are holding together this fear, right? It's like this basketball. So the banach tarski paradox says that there is a way to separate out, like, just choose all the points, like a whole bunch of these points that are in here, like these droplets, and then you take them out, and then you move them away. And these are just solely choosing the points, while granted infinite number of points, you're telling them to go somewhere else. And using this, you can actually create a perfect clone of the ball, right? You have two different copies of the ball using the exact same number of particles. So you can do all these weird things with infinity in the world of the abstract, you know, where we're fun things happen, and everyone's everyone's happy and dancing all the time. You know, like, yeah, they're like, we're okay with all kinds of crazy things happening. But man, when this spills over into reality, it's like, we all lose our shit. Because, you know, yeah, literally not believing.   Deep  27:54 That's right. That's right.   Pouya LJ  27:57 Yeah, and so, um, so what, what, what do you do, but especially because you're, you're actually very close to these experience. What does that what does that make you feel? What does that? What? What does that? Do you think it means? What does that say about that objective reality, if you will? What is your thought?   Deep  28:17 Yeah, it will, what it tells me is that there's likely some sort of, clearly a multiverse situation going on, where almost it's like, we're maybe that maybe each agent that can be concerned, considered an observer or anything that can be considered capable of measurement, right? We don't know how far that extends. We just don't know those answers. But I believe that everything that can is on some unique multiverse, and we all just have our own timelines intersecting with each other. That's what that told me. It no longer feels like, we share one objective physical space. It's like, you know, I mean, we just have like, the these rays instead. That intersect. So it, I found, frankly, I found it psychologically disturbing when I read the experiment and the results. And I don't think that there's no way around it. It's just but it's fascinating stuff. So yeah,   Pouya LJ  29:17 yeah, no, I, it does make sense. Yeah, what you're saying like, I mean, obviously, there has to be so that to me, either. There's another explanation such as the multiverse situation, or maybe there is no objective reality. Well, in a sense, at the end of the day, if you're living in a multiverse with different set of facts, and you're building all of your rules based on those axioms that you get from FX x, or whatever, a different set of axioms will say. Then, who's to say which universe is the reference universe, or the main universe or truth? So maybe maybe there isn't any objective reality which, which to me, And then that's my whole thing. That was my whole thing about this objective reality. I asked this question going in thinking, yes, there is, and we can't just find it yet. But let's pose the assumption that Yeah, no, there is no objective reality, then to me, it's a little bit more humanistic again, talk, but it just shows me how arrogant we've become of a thing called, you know, science and discovery. And we're just, we're just going forward thinking that we're supposed to know the answer to, to everything, we have to figure it out. And that and that's fine to try. But also I think it this whole phenomena should should give us some notion of Okay, there is there there should be a little bit a bit a degree of humility, in what in what we do as discoverers of this universe, which is, to me the most beautiful parts. Again, I'm like, this is being poetic as a human thing. But that's at the end of the day. That's who we are. And I think I think we should appreciate that part as well. Sorry, I'm just going to close this loop on this poem that I just composed here. But Okay, back to Golf. How does that make you feel? from someone who's a little bit more distant? Personally,   Govind  31:28 I think it's very interesting to use the word pool there because, well, since since this, this discussion has kind of been underpinned by logic and language and all that kind of stuff. There's this philosopher Martin Heidegger, his his entire take was like, we need to kind of escape from the confines of language and the kind of thinking that is inevitable, just because of language being the way it is, right? Because it's like, realistically, we all have our own personal language. It's like, I have my own language. And when I say that, I don't mean like my own version of English, I mean, my own, let's like, composition of thoughts, experiences, feeling senses, right? Like, if I remember, if I smell a perfume from my past, like, I'm gonna have like, these nostalgic experiences and all that stuff, right? And, and that really, that's part of that's a word or like maybe a phrase in like, personal language. And whenever I'm talking, what I'm doing is I'm converting from my, I'm translating from my personal language to English, right? In this case, and then and then you have to, like convert that back to your personal language. And men composition is really hard, like, how do we do it? Given this this context, but Heidegger, his his attempt to improve language, was by positing that we move to poetry as a way of expressing ourselves purely because he thought poetry had this innate ability to capture our personal language, right? Because when we write poetry, it's such a, like, poetry is a hard thing to understand, right? Like, sometimes you read poetry, and I'm like, What the heck is going on? But it's just because it's, it's the poets like attempt to try to bring out their personal language as much as possible, right. And I would argue that most of art is the same process. So I mean, in, and I want to tie this back to like, the point I made earlier about us trying to escape the confines of our own existence, right, like, the the confines of our of our human infrastructure, the way we do that, I think poetry is a very, very cool way of and it's kind of cool that emerged from this discussion as well. That's kind of a case in point.   Pouya LJ  33:23 Yeah. No, I I think so. Yes, I think I understand. So it's the least amount of filters like art, I suppose, like, closest to you as it gets, I suppose. So, so yes, I, and that's what I've been going back and forth a lot. Like I obviously, as somebody who cares about, you know, methodical thinking, logical thinking, and, you know, rationale, reason, etc. That is very valuable, especially if you if we want resolved in this in this world of ours, because at the end of the day, we can get a lot with the our version of you know, reality that we have in this very pocket that we are living in, in the whole the whole universe and in space and time. But going beyond that, I think there there has and that is where I think they kind of, you know, overlap the the field, let's call it science and art, if you will, I don't, I don't like to make huge distinction, like borderline distinction distinctions, generally personally, but I think in an entirety, society does make it very, like black and white distinction between these two, which I think there is a good amount of overlap, and that is, we're   Govind  34:44 talking fuzziness, right, it's all about being fuzzy and accepting it for what it is as opposed to what we want it to be that maybe seems more perfect to us, right? Like these molds seem more perfect to us. But the reality is, nothing is a mold like everything is fuzzy, right? Like I think the example is like such a mind. looming realization of that.   Pouya LJ  35:02 Yeah, no, that's that's true. And what one way one can raise a question. I suppose that what makes us want the I mean, I have I have one answer. But let's let me just pose the question first. What makes us as who we are humans, again, within this infrastructure, once this clarity of binary of, you know, not being fuzzy, but rather completely distinct or True or false? Well, what are your thoughts on that?   Govind  35:35 Well, I remember we actually think I think we did a podcast on this a little bit ago about like the nature of chaos, right? Some people, most people I think, are very averse to chaos, because they like things being simple and easy to understand. Right? What I mean, the more, let's say, foolhardy among us, for lack of a better word, like kind of naturally as gravitated towards chaos, because I think chaos is just such a good description of reality. But the problem is that chaos, by definition is incredibly, incredibly complex, right? So you don't you don't have the simplicity of like, you know, two plus two equals four, right? You're like, what's two? what's plus? What's four? What's the quality?   Pouya LJ  36:14 That sounds like you checked, you just say, yeah, smoke some weed or something? Like what is to man?   Govind  36:23 I thought this was Joe Rogan.   Pouya LJ  36:27 Oh, it could be anyway. No, I think so. Okay, let me go back to how about you do and don't share my thoughts?   Deep  36:38 Yes. So, first of all, it's super interesting about the nature of fuzziness, especially when we think about Zeno's paradox. Because even that is a great example. You know, I still contend that we have not resolved the paradox of why is it that we can make contact with anything, right? Why is it that I'm even touching the floor right now, despite the poly exclusion principle? And, you know, Zeno's paradox, right?   Govind  37:10 xenos paradox.   Deep  37:11 Sure. So So, so xenos paradox. It's really a family of paradoxes. But it all comes down to the fact that, I'll give you an example. Let's say that you want to reach the end of the hallway. And your rule that you impose on yourself is that you're going to have your distance in order to get to the hallway, and you'll have your distance, every single time until you get to the end of the hallway. And so let's say the, you're 10 feet away from the end of the hallway, then the next time the next move you make you're five feet away, then two and a half, then 1.25, and so on and so forth. And until you go to point 000000125, blah, blah, blah, but it'll never be zero, right? It never touches zero. So at no point, will you ever actually reach the end of the hallway. So Zeno's paradox, what basically asks, Why do you never, why do you touch the end of the hallway? Why is it that in real life, we end up making it to the other side, despite the fact that these infinite distances, you know, taking any slice of an infinite still infinite so so he just had all these questions about it. Yeah, spacetime. Very deep questions to the thousands of years ago on so and we still haven't answered them properly. And yeah,   Govind  38:34 well, I have a point about that. But I know if we are you're you're itching to talk about your, your perspective on it. Go ahead. Oh, you're on mute. Oops, sorry.   Pouya LJ  38:45 First of all, I want to say that I, I sent a photo and chat A while ago, and I think I diverted deeps attention to that kind of concept, which was I don't know if you saw the, the the rabbit or whatever it is. It wants to go get a haircut. I'll put this in the show notes, by the way, but it's a half off haircut. Did you guys see that one?   Deep  39:12 Right now? That is funny. Yeah, I'll put this   Pouya LJ  39:16 in the show notes. So that people who are listening to this, they can just find it out. But I know this is exactly what you're talking about. It'll gonna take forever. So yeah, you're right. But why do we actually get that haircut and the half of haircut eventually? No, I think so. First of all, all of these are exactly to my point that there's there's there is probably a sea of things that we just don't know about the nature of our universe, the one that even forget about objective reality, the one that we even perceive. And maybe one can make an argument that the reason with the fatalities of our of our views are the questions that we cannot answer is because of the fact that our realities are not completely overlapping the objective one, and that's where those those are the the edge cases that are actually creating these problems, perhaps. But true. Beyond that, I think there's a, there's a degree of obsession amongst many, many people, most people probably besides besides the ones who are embracing chaos, I suppose as go and was putting it, that we did a good good amount of like humanity essentially once a clear answer to two things and sometimes takes shortcuts through through, you know, ideologies that might not have, you know, rational rationale behind them. Just to get to those answer, why am I here? Why, like, because I have to be tested here to go to heaven, part of the some of the religious ideologies, or, or what is the nature of our unit? Why is the sun come up? I feel a first of all does is going to come up tomorrow or, and then we come up with these answers, and everybody through their own ways try to answer these definitively. And part of that is I think, now it's a little bit of more philosophical questions, I suppose, or answer rather thoughts, I suppose. But I think part of that is because we understand our own mortality by binary, which is the most did the deepest, probably driver of our existence, and that is either we're dead or alive, there's no, I'm half dead. I was like, well, maybe you're sick a little bit, but you're not half dead. So I and there is there's a degree that we and there's an understanding that when I die, I there's like, there's no coming back from that. I mean, I'm obviously there are exceptions, sometimes. Some people, some people, flatline they come back. But if you're flatlining for a week, you're not coming back from that, right? So so there's, there's a permanency to that experience that and and, and our deepest drive is to avoid that. So to avoid that clear, at least, at least from our mortal, mortal perspective, clear, true or false If true, being your dead and false being your life. That is clear that okay, if I'm, if I'm talking right now, as the card would say that I exist. In a more biological setup, sense, I'm not dead. And, and, and it drives all those questions, I suppose. But again, like, also going back to language as a logical tool, essentially. What do you think there's going to be a funny question, what do you think people before language would think? Would they have similar thoughts to these things? Now? I mean, obviously, in a simpler case, and not thinking like quantum physics, I suppose. But what do you think all of these are fatalities of language that we're carrying with ourselves? Or is it drive by language? Or is it more fundamental? So if we didn't have language for people who didn't invent language yet, back in? I don't know how long ago? Would they have similar thoughts? Do you think?   Govind  43:11 Well, I think we do have animals, right? Like, I mean, when we have these, you have any pets? Do you   Pouya LJ  43:17 mean no? Okay, before, but I know Okay, yeah. No, but I can understand what you're where you're going.   Govind  43:24 But when you have, like interactions with animals, I love animals. It's almost like you have this communication with them. That's that's not like you. I mean, I don't I can see versus and they probably don't understand me, unless all animals know English, and they just choose to ignore us. And they like humans are too stupid. There was a   Pouya LJ  43:43 cabal of animals deciding that this is not a good idea. Yes.   Govind  43:48 Lots of Rick and Morty episodes. But yeah, no, I think I mean, it's just that that awareness that being that's that's just there right? I think that is rooted in language fundamentally. Like I don't I don't know if we can actually get past this. This like our art like the language that we have developed evolved and developed is like it serves a very good purpose which is sharing thoughts with each other sharing these these like awareness experiences with each other right? But at the root of it all like I mean, it's all about that awareness and you brought up such a great point about death right? And how death is that binary which kind of makes us realize like you know, like there is such a thing as a clear like a clear line drawn in the in the northern sand like a line drawn in the concrete You know, this this is it like you know, there's life and then there's not life so so that that is actually such a such a great point about why negations work in this in this sense. I seem to have lost you guys   Pouya LJ  44:47 know, we can hear you. Okay. Oh, yeah, your picture froze, but I can hear you so that's good. Excellent.   Govind  44:53 Yeah. Well, yeah, that's that's the point I wanted to make. You know, it's a it's like these these ideas do exist, but I'm sure Animals have a notion of death as well. Right? And animals. Oh, yeah. Their their experiences and all that.   Pouya LJ  45:05 Yeah, no. And that's true. The notion of death is obviously at least in its more primal sense of obvious. Obviously, they're, they're trying to avoid it. But there are no but my point was, so so the rabbit holes that we go to and get stuck in it, then half of the way to the destination, and then half it, and then half of them and have it is this. My This is what is this? Now? Now this one is not as outside of language, actually, some, I'm kind of negating myself, but is a lot of these problems with language and and how we're communicating with each other. Because honestly, like, there are instances that I think I should have been thinking about this. Do I think with myself, like when there's nobody else, I don't have to communicate with anybody else. I don't need to use language, English, Farsi, whatever, to communicate with other people. But is there any any? Do I communicate with myself with my thoughts, in language or outside of language? And I've been thinking about this for a while and trying to observe it? And part of it is that, yeah, yeah, most of my thoughts are us using language. But yes, there are pockets sometimes that I feel like, there's a thought that I can't even express it to myself, using language. It's that the, maybe that that's the that's for, like, there's a fog. And I'm perceiving it. There's some sort of experience behind it. But I can't even describe that experience for us. Like, I mean, what what is like, so what is it sounds like an impression of a thought, right? Because a thought is a thought when you're able to express it, maybe? Yeah, so i think i think that that becomes super clear. Well, okay, let me let me give you so this is a, this is going to be a little bit of an exaggeration. Like, it's not what I'm thinking about. So the one that I'm thinking about is more of a thought. But think about this, when you're extremely fearful for your life at a very moment notice of, you know, hitting, you know, you have to you have to run there's there's a, there's a specific quality to that fear. And you're thinking, Okay, maybe there's a bear in front of you. And your thought is that we're going to grab this knife, but are you really thinking in terms of wars, I am going to grab this knife, you see a knife, you you want to grab it, you know what I mean? That's a thought that I'm going to grab this knife, but it's not really in any language. And that is really forced when I think I can see myself doing that, at least, when it comes to the precipice of like some sort of when it combines with some sort of very strong emotion such as, okay, I have to grab this knife or gun or whatever, shoot this bear, I'm not thinking to myself, okay, I am going to grab a gun, and I am going to pull the trigger at this. No, that's not it, you just know, right? That's a   Govind  48:01 possibility. It's like you're like, the way I think of it is like, it's almost like a design space of everything that could possibly happen given what's around you. Right? So it's like you're sampling from this design space. Like one of these events, for example, is like you picking up a knife or like, you know, you punching someone in the face. This is around you. Something like it's like these are these are just, I think the mind is really good at generating these kind of things, which is just sampling points from, from this design space of what's around us, right? Yeah. And then and then these are actions or like, these are these are impressions. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we just, we just like, we have all these things around this, like stimulus. And our mind is generating these things. And most of the time, it's like, it's pretty pragmatic. It's like, Oh, you have to put on your shoes to walk. It's like this thing you tell yourself, but you're not really thinking you're doing things. But like, sometimes it's just like random thoughts. Like it's our mind is a pretty interesting random number generator. Deep. What are your thoughts on that?   Deep  49:00 Okay, it really is. I agree with that. I mean, you can always say that, uh, you know, all of our output all of our, I've always wondered, you know, the, what is it the thousand monkey or the infinite monkey experiment or thought experiment where what would happen if you let monkeys play with a typewriter for an infinite amount of time, right? There's the idea that they would eventually create Shakespeare. And it makes me question the idea of creativity and thought, is it a linear combination of what you already know? Or is it truly something that will eventually appear emergent from random fucking monkey? Monkey actions, right? Like, what what is true intelligent creativity? So with that being said, I really had a I was thinking, though, you know, on that note about us looking at death and life is binary. That's true. We are classical creatures, like we observe the universe in classical sense, right? Everything is and so because it's macroscopic to us, I wonder, what if? What does life look like for, let's say, micro organism that doesn't experience the world classically like we do, right? What if there are, there are quantum organisms that are only experiencing the world and quantum mechanics? To them, there would be literally no such thing as a classical I am dead or classical life. What does that mean? What What does death for that organism look like? So yeah, I was just thinking about that. But you guys think,   Pouya LJ  50:34 yeah, no, you're you're dragging us into the pan psychism   Govind  50:41 the movie arrival, right? With the whole concept of like, circular time and all these things, right? Like, this is some I think, innovations of the 21st century like, exploring this, these kind of ideas. I see so many outlets for this in different TV shows and movies and all that stuff. Like this, this like convergence of everything, how everything is one and many at the same time. Right? Well, I guess the fuzziness of everything, right. Like everything is just really fuzzy. And we're, as humanity starting to accept it, which is, you know, really freakin cool.   Pouya LJ  51:12 No, no, it is. And you mentioned an arrival It reminds me of, so I think if I'm not mistaken. Okay, maybe I'm mistaken. But let me let me just make it maybe, you know, I think Stephen Wolfram was an advisor in that movie. I don't know if he really I don't know. That's that I I'm doubting myself now. So anybody out there listening. Please double check for yourselves. Don't quote me on it. But which reminds me he actually I don't know if we're familiar. Actually. I   51:40 don't know why I did a quick Google and   Pouya LJ  51:43 it is like it's okay. Yeah. And he came up with this new What is it? What do you call it? Geez. new stuff. Yeah, he is hypergraph.   Deep  51:56 Physics.   Pouya LJ  51:57 Yes. Yeah. Have you heard about that? Did you look into it?   Deep  52:01 Yeah, I   52:04 I liked it.   Pouya LJ  52:06 So what are your thoughts on that? But super quickly, I don't want to go to a different deep rabbit hole right now. But it reminded me of him when you mentioned arrival.   Deep  52:14 Sure. I mean, various.   Pouya LJ  52:16 I don't know, Dad Galvin. Are you familiar with what it is? Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Okay. Okay. Cool. Cool. Good.   Deep  52:22 Yeah, just very briefly, I mean, the idea of like, Come complex, physical phenomena from simple rules is nothing new, right. Like that's been talked about for 100 years. What was really interesting was the idea of using causal graphs or attempting to use just like these hyper graphs to encode physical rules. Yeah, I think it's promising. I'd love to see experiments and math and more rigor. But the ideas are cool. Like Stephen Wolfram is really, like he has some fundamental thoughts there that are interesting, unique worth pursuing.   Govind  52:56 These are usually a pioneer of this kind of this kind of funky fuzzy stuff. Right, right. Yeah. Yes, geez theory so much with his work on automata and all that stuff. Well, this release. I mean, I wanted to bring back this point from about 15 minutes ago. We were talking about Zeno's paradoxes. Yeah, a conversation topic for a future podcasts definitely should be the nature of calculus, right? Because, yeah, the way we as humans, resolve Zeno's paradoxes was to create this notion of a limit, we just throw a limit on it. And we say, at some point, it does, it does converge on to this value, right? Like, and I'm like, okay, so you keep cutting the half of your hair. And at some point, you're, you're going to get a full haircut, right? Like, even if you get the convergence now that that notion of convergence, it turns out is not strongly understood by by humans. But I think that's something we need to discuss. And I it stands out for me, because this is one of the first discussions we ever had. Right? Exactly. Yeah.   Deep  53:57 Yeah, absolutely. Talking   Govind  53:58 about limits and how like, that's what I think I first realized I'm like, this doesn't make any sense, does it? It's just, we just put   Deep  54:04 it is it is a great because some that is it all stemmed from some Berkeley kid asking us like, like, about it, right? Like he's like, yeah, this like this. And then yeah,   Govind  54:15 yeah. Yeah. Cool stuff. No, but I think we should explore that in in the next podcast or though sounds good. Sounds good?   Pouya LJ  54:24 No, I think I think okay, well, we made the plan. I don't know about the dates. We'll talk about that later. But next sub subject of the next conversation will be calculus, and its origins, its fundamentals. axioms, I suppose. Okay, I think that's a good. Here's a good stopping point. We almost went full hour here. Is there anything else you want to, you know, close the loop on before we leave this conversation?   Govind  54:54 Well, for me, I think I learned so I mean, I had these thoughts about fuzzy fuzzy thinking and all that stuff. And it was Kind of like in the let's let's see the disk of my, the my external hard disk of my brain is just forgotten there. So it's great to brush the dust off. And I feel like I really kind of added to these models based on this conversation. So yeah, it was very cool. I think we achieved fuzziness today. Yes.   Pouya LJ  55:18 That's great. How about you?   Deep  55:20 Yeah, I would just say that I really appreciated the perspective of the history of history philosophy, with respect to logic, a super neat perspective that you brought to the table or Govind and yeah, just different perspectives that were shared today. Um, it's awesome. It does make things more fuzzy. And yeah, let's keep it going. Guys, I, I think that there's a lot of interesting questions. We post here today. So   Pouya LJ  55:47 okay, and if anybody wants to share their thoughts, feel free you can reach go in and deepen their respective social media, which I'm going to put in the show notes. Don't need to repeat them here. You can you can find them there.   56:01 And comment guys.   Pouya LJ  56:04 Make it make it dirty. No, keep it clean. And all right, stay fuzzy until later episode.   Deep  56:11 Cheers, guys.  

In this episode of the BTP podcast, Emaad joins Pouya in a free form conversation around topics such as Physics, world currencies, crypto currencies and a decentralized banking system and an idea of world UBI.   Emaad is an Astrophysicist with a passion for technology   Emaad's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parachaexplores/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/parachuchutrain LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emaadparacha/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS currency, layover, canada, people, country, places, digital currencies, saskatchewan, money, picture, ubi, talking, notes, winnipeg, toronto, cryptocurrency, world, research, cryptocurrencies, thought SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Emaad   Pouya LJ  00:17 Hey, man, how's it going? Good,   Emaad  00:19 man, how are you?   Pouya LJ  00:20 Pretty good, pretty good. We're actually talking off off camera and not camera, but I'm recording about some stuff that is going on with you and your life. And I thought, you know what, it's actually quite interesting. Let's bring it in. Let's bring it in there according. Okay, so for sure. So let's, let's circle back to five minutes before our conversation go to. So you were telling me that you started a massive program? And you were telling the story of how that that happened?   Emaad  00:46 Yeah, for sure. So well, I was in touch with one of my professors, ever since I gave my final for that course, which I, if you remember, I was with you. Yeah. I was taking it with you last year in like, April. And I spoke to the professor and he was interested. And he actually followed up on email as well. And he's like, oh, like, you know, would you be interested in doing research, or a few other courses on side, and I think I discussed that with you as well, last time. Yes. Because it's always a good idea to take some courses, take some courses even after you graduate, because they're gonna help you with, they're gonna help you with your graduate applications. If you have a gap here, you can take one or two courses, put them on your transcript, and that's going to be helpful for you. So I didn't take that route. But I spoke to the professor, I met with him a lot, I read on his research, etc. And eventually, around November, that's when the time came to apply. So I went ahead and applied got a bunch of references. And all I had to do was wait pretty much until March, when I got my when I got my admission. And when I got my, I guess offer from University of Toronto. So right now it's a master's in physics that I'm doing at the University of Toronto. And what I'll be researching on is with Professor Barth, Netherfield, who is a pretty well known Canadian astronomer. And what he does in his lab, and the cool thing is he actually has his own lab. So it's a whole building that's dedicated for him. It's not an office, it's not a room, it's not a lab space. It's a whole building at the University of Toronto, um, I think it's a two storey building, but his his, so at the ground floor is sort of a lab or a huge space lab space. And then there's, there's computers and stuff upstairs. And what he does is he creates telescopes that are as they're trying to be as effective as Hubble. But at a cheaper cost. That's his ultimate goal to create accessible telescopes, accessible space telescopes. And then what he does is he launches them to space on balloons. So he goes to Antarctica, Sudbury or Timmins, Ontario. There's also New Zealand, where he goes, and then he launches them into space. He's trying to be as close to the north and south poles as possible. And what he aims to do is he aims to do similar research that can be done with Hubble, but at a much lesser cost, because you're doing balloon based astronomy. So, you know, you don't have to pay for thousands and thousands of tons of jet fuel to get the telescope up, like Hubble and maintain it with the International Space Station.   Pouya LJ  03:41 Yeah, well, that's, that's super interesting. And so what what got you? I mean, I know you wanted to do some sort of grad school program, but what got you to this specific program? What happened? I will   Emaad  03:55 be honest, I will be 100% honest, I wasn't really planning. I never thought that it would that I would be doing this last year. Especially when we were finishing our undergrad degree. I Well, I was finishing my undergrad degree and you're about to finish. We were taking the courses then. Yeah. And when I finished my last final, I think it was my second last final with you.   Pouya LJ  04:18 Yeah, sorry. My bad.   Emaad  04:19 Yeah, I thought you know what this is it. Like, I'm never gonna touch physics ever again. If you remember correctly, that week was probably the toughest week of our lives.   Pouya LJ  04:30 I I remember,   Emaad  04:33 there was classical mechanics. At at, at what time it was I think 9am 9am to 12pm. And then the next day we had electro mag. electromagnetism. Yeah. From 9am to 10 9am to 12pm. And then we had a one day break. Yeah, and we had general relativity.   Pouya LJ  04:55 Yeah, not not easy courses. Yeah,   Emaad  04:56 not even courses at all. Again from 9am to 12pm. And I honestly thought, you know what this is it like I'm done with everything related to physics. Yeah. And I wanted to, and then I worked in the cloud computing side of things. So I worked for a company called about extreme. And what I did with them was I helped consult for cloud based solutions on Microsoft Azure. And I helped build them as well. So I helped build chatbots, knowledge mining applications, more so towards the AI, more, so the applications that, that use AI, or more specifically Microsoft's own cognitive toolkit. But I was hoping to go more into that field. And I did look into some masters. But to be frank, I didn't have that much guidance. At that time with me, I didn't know which one to go for which one would be best. And I accidentally applied for a research based one. And the problem with that is that you need to have, it's very helpful to have a computer science background, if you want to go into a research based computer science degree. Yeah, that was sort of my mistake. But I did apply for a master's in physics as well. And I thought about it, I thought about whether it's a good idea to do it or not. And it is a one year program. And if I still want to apply for other graduate degrees in computer science, or data science, or artificial intelligence related fields, I can still do that, while I'm finishing up a Master's. So if I'm going to start next year, if I'll have to start a master's in computer science, or data science or something, next year for that might as well get a Master's, get another masters. Over with it, this is not gonna hurt. And it's a research based Master's. So the coolest thing about research based Master's is, most in most universities, in Canada, they pay you to do it, you're not paying anything out of your pocket, your tuition is covered. And on top of that, you're getting money for being a TA you're getting money for being a research assistant, and you're just getting grants. So that's one of the best things about about research based degrees. And this is applicable everywhere, around Canada, at least for whatever research base degree you have, whether it's a PhD or masters, you're going to be getting funding for it may not be obviously as much as you would get if you were doing the job or whatever. But I mean, look on the bright side, you're getting a degree out of it.   Pouya LJ  07:32 No, of course, that makes a lot of sense. Wow, that's a cool, cool, cool story, because we've been in contact through, you know, text messages and whatnot, but we haven't talked for probably over a year now. Yeah, or so. And I think   Emaad  07:49 some more comprehensive talk.   Pouya LJ  07:51 Yeah, like, exactly like catching up and stuff anyways. So. So it was it was a it was a shock to me, because I thought you're you're working for that company, that you were talking about classes. But   Emaad  08:04 the funny thing is, I actually might still be, I'm still debating on whether I should keep it part time or not. Because because of two main reasons. One, it's always important to get work experience. And even though this summer was kind of late for them, because of COVID. So there weren't that many projects coming in. Because our our main clients, the company has been clients are cities and governments in the United States, city government, state governments in the United States. So they've been more focused on COVID binding COVID. And they're less inclined on doing the projects that we've had in pipeline, I see. But now new things are coming up. And it's always exciting to work on these projects. That's that's one main issue. One mean, that's one main reason because there are upcoming projects. And the second thing is to further enhance my own learning. There's new things again, coming up. within Microsoft, Microsoft is releasing new products. And technology is a field where if you're not on top of it, you're gonna fall off the ladder very fast. So it's always better to be on top of it know your stuff. They still pay, they still help with certifications, the company helps it certification. So it's always better to get new certifications, because they also expired. Microsoft certifications expire every two years. So it's always good to have certification stay on top of things so that maybe when the Masters is over, if I don't want to pursue physics, then there's always this option of this option of cloud computing and AI.   Pouya LJ  09:44 No, that's true. That makes a lot of sense under what's good thinking. Thanks. No, no, that's true. Anyways, so we also had something else in actually we had entirely something else in mind to talk about which is fun. It's a, it's fun to talk about different stuff, too. You have some interesting thing going on which you actually got featured on a CBC article, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. So you like travel? I think a lot of people do. And you travel, you go round, you get their currency. And, you know, like, on the currency, there's typically a picture of something, your monument, a lot of times a monument and you go there with the currency and you take a picture, can you do you want to explain it better than I   Emaad  10:32 did? what you're doing, for sure. So a lot of a lot of listeners would probably know that. What a lot of a lot of different banknotes and a lot of coins, they occasionally have places on them. And that's representative of the country's identity. So if you look at the United States dollars, they'll have different government buildings on them. The five has Lincoln lincoln memorial in DC, the 10 has the US Treasury 20 has White House 50 has the Capitol building, and then 100 has the Independence Hall in Philadelphia. And you know, that's the same for a lot of other countries as well, they occasionally put a place in the country, on their banknotes just as a representative of their own identity representative of their own culture. And what I've been doing, this is a project actually started about, well, it's going to be it's going to be nearly five years, about five years back. And what I wanted to do was I wanted to travel to different places, would that would currencies of those places. So it could be where I'm from, I'm from Pakistan, so I could go, I could go there for Canada, US and other places as well, because a lot of currencies have places on them. So I made a plan to go to those places, travel to those exact spots that are on the currencies of those countries, and then take pictures over there. And it's been five years, I think it's I've taken more than 35 pictures more than 35 at least. And over the course of Yeah, over the course of five years in six countries. If I if my math is not mistaken.   Pouya LJ  12:23 I think you got it. You got it nailed down. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So what inspired you to do that?   Emaad  12:32 That's, that's always a funny question. Because a lot of people ask that. Yeah. And I feel like part of me feels like, should I just make something up? That sound cool, because, honestly, speaking, there's nothing cool about the inspiration. All I know is like back in, I think five years ago, around November 2015. That's when I went to this place called mind Jotaro, which is in Pakistan. It's, it was part it was ruins from the Indus Valley civilisation, which is one of the three oldest civilizations in the world. Apart from the Egyptian, and I think the Mesopotamian. So that was actually based in around Pakistan, and there's a very big river in Pakistan called the Indus River was based around that. And I went there, and they remember, when I was growing up, I always saw the specific picture in my textbooks in school, and also on the notes. And I always thought about, you know, what a cool place that is, it's basically ruins 5000 year old ruins, or, and, you know, I want to go there and travel and see and see those ruins. And I always saw them on the back of the notes. So when I went there, I was finally able to go there on a family trip. I went there, and I asked the tour guide, I had an old 20 rupee note, which actually has its picture on it. And I went to, I went to the tour guide, and I was like, Hey, where was this picture taken? He took me to the exact spot. And I took a picture of it. And then what I did was, I put it up not just on Facebook and stuff, but also on Reddit. Because I thought this is something pretty cool. People would appreciate it. And it people did. People liked it a lot. I was received very well. And I thought, you know what, this is probably a really good excuse to travel to different places in Pakistan, at least at that time. And that time, I was just thinking of bugs. So I thought you know what, I should maybe do this. In Pakistan, I get a really good excuse to travel to different places, and the pictures would come out pretty nice. So that's sort of where it started. I've always thought about you know, I should make a cool story. I should just make it up and then just put that version out there but the origins aren't that amazing. No, no, look, it's actually pretty.   Pouya LJ  15:02 I don't know what you're talking about. It's actually pretty good. It's a very green coming about at a younger age. When you thought about this, it's actually I think, a very cool story on its own and beyond that, I think nothing, nothing beats the order, the honesty, the the originality and the truth and honesty of the story. Yeah, as boring as it sounds, I think. Yeah, back that is orange, that, first of all, is original. So it's not somebody else's thought, or somebody else might have thought it. But on the other hand, because it's truthful, it's genuine. I think that has a lot of value to it personally, that's it doesn't have to be extra sexy actually, now not to get to cultural issues. But maybe that's that's one of the problems with our culture, especially the online culture these days, because everybody wants to make everything extra sexy. And that's it. Yeah. Sometimes publicity is actually the sexy part.   Emaad  16:01 That is very true. Yeah. Instead of you know, making up something big. And in the story that could have lifted up so many holes and stuff like that. It's always better to just stay simple.   Pouya LJ  16:10 Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely loved it. And don't don't sell it short. It is more interesting than you think it is. Okay, so that's cool. Cool story. Now, that gets us to currencies. So I know you have interest in technology. We actually talked about it today. And there is a degree of Okay, so that those are like government backed currencies. Now, obviously, those are the paper ones. All, I mean, we always were backed by those, but we also are removing them from our day to day interactions more and more. Yeah, as you progress towards credit cards, or debit cards are basically becoming electronic, which loses a little bit of touch. So I think you're bringing out a little bit on the stalls, you're there to, to the to the people who have forgotten what their dollars or whatever currencies look like. Yeah,   Emaad  17:07 you know, there's a funny thing about that. I was I was meeting up with a friend of mine, a few days back. And we were speaking about this project and stuff because I met him after a long while. And he, he was telling me, well, I said he's actually from China. So I said, oh, maybe I should go to China next and, and take take pictures of Chinese currency. Yeah. And he laughed about it. He's like, good luck finding one. Oh, because China has basically moved on to digital currency they have I think WeChat and Ali pay. I think those are the names if I'm correct. But what they do is they it's all digital payments, they have QR codes, they just scan there, they just scan those QR codes so they can pay whatever they whatever amount they need to pay. And, you know, if I'm paying money to you, if I'm giving money to you, or anything that's over V chat, as well. And it's such a streamlined system that they've made, that they no longer have to use paper currency at all. So he was laughing about that. And that resonates with what you said, because so many people are just digital, they're into digital banking, there's no more paper currency anymore. There's no more paper currency. Because I mean, why carry it around? Why case so much of it around in your wallet, when you can just put one card? And that accesses all your money at once.   Pouya LJ  18:29 Right? Yeah, no, that's true. And it makes a lot of sense. But but but you're adding that value on a artistic and social level I suppose. To to your work, which is, which is very interesting. Do you have you have what are the next plans? Do you have any any plans? Now? Like concrete plans to go next country or city or   Emaad  18:49 whatever? I mean, how can you make it How can anyone make any concrete plan?   Pouya LJ  18:54 Well, actually, that's true. That was a stupid question. Over there, I totally forgot.   Emaad  19:00 It's a very tough time to create concrete plans. I mean, I've done a country's I've completed our Pakistan, my home country, the EU, the US, Panama, Canada, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates. And Funny enough, Oman and the United Arab Emirates. I've only done a couple of their notes, not all of them. And that was because I was only there for a very short time. I think I was in UAE for about like 15 hours. And I was in Oman for about like 10 hours. Was that a layover? So that those are layover? Yeah. So what I've been doing is I occasionally travel between Canada and Pakistan often. If I'm if I want to go back home, meet family etc. And what I've always been trying to do is trying to find cool layovers. So usually I fly through the Middle East. And that's that sort of that sort of normal, because there's lots of airlines that connect through the Middle East, and or it through Turkey or through other countries or through Europe. So what I try to do is I try to find a different layover, where I can not only visit a new countries airport, but also stay there for like 1015 hours. A lot of airlines will offer is they offered like, two three hour connection. And then they also offer a 15 hour connection. And usually, the 15 hour connection is much cheaper, because so many people are just hoping to get to the airport, stay there for one hour and then get on their next flight angle. But instead, what I try to do is I try to find like a 15 hour layover or a 20 hour layover, so I can actually see the country I can go out of the airport, get an excuse to see. Yeah, see places. And along with that, what I do is then I exchange some exchange some money to get their own currency. I'd well I do research before to see which notes should would make sense. And then what I do is I I try to see which notes would make sense which notes are within reach of where I am. And then I get those notes from a currency exchange at the airport. And then I just tried to go to those places. And that's sort of how I've done it pretty much for most of us. That's how much that's how I've been doing it recently. With the layovers, I've also done Canada. There's a bunch of places within Canada. Sorry, before you   Pouya LJ  21:32 go ahead, I have to add something. For those people who complain about the boringness of layovers, get creative people. This is how you how you make it worth your while I   Emaad  21:42 continue. That is That is very true. I mean, I I love layovers, because an excuse to you know, go around, go travel. Yeah, for sure. I know a lot of people for for a lot of people. I mean, I'll make sense. Yeah, maybe they're in a hurry to get back or get somewhere or something. And they just here to airports. It could be a variety of reasons, or they're tired. But I personally believe that if there's a layover, I should spend it. Traveling or, you know, looking at different things make the most of it. This summer, I was going to travel via Turkey, via Turkish Airlines. And I had the option of a five hour layover in Istanbul, or a 25 hour layover. So I opted for the 25 hour layover, which is actually much cheaper, of course. So I both saved money. And I talked to the airline. And this is something cool. A lot of airlines will do this for you. They will give you a hotel room, and they'll cover your visa costs. They'll cover your visit transit visa costs, as well free of cost. Turkish Airlines was doing that Turkish Airlines gave a free hotel. Free hotel for one night, which is very cool. I mean, I just I just go there and they will take me to the hotel. They'll give me a free hotel. And then I can just go and visit. I did this with Emirates as well. When I was traveling with Emirates, I had a 15 or 16 hour layover in Dubai. And all I had to do was just apply online, it takes five seconds. And when I get to the airport, they give me they give me a hotel voucher, and food voucher, and a couple of food vouchers. So my food was covered. They gave me a free hotel. And they gave me they transported me from the hotel to the airport and the airport and airport to the hotel. And this is all for free. And it's not something you need business class for is an economy class ticket. Right?   Pouya LJ  23:51 Yeah, you were you were going on to sorry, it took you off a tangent, but you were sorry. Originally you were going off to talk about your experience in Canada on what you did.   Emaad  24:00 Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean for Canada, the current notes are not super indicative of different places in Canada. Number of the $5 note, which you might have seen has space on the back has international has actually the Canadarm that is something that can be made it on the International Space Station. It has that so I think that's kind of tough. The $10 note has Jasper National Park that one I've actually done. I did that last year. I did a train going through Jasper National Park in Alberta. The $20 note has a memorial. It's still a place it's still a building but that memorial is actually in France, interestingly enough, and then the 50 and 100 don't really have any specific places on them. So what I've instead been doing is I've looked at older nodes in Canada. So there's the old one $1 old $1 notes old hundred dollar notes, a lot of old $1 notes are in Ottawa, they have a lot of government buildings on them. And the old hundred dollar note was in Lunenburg, which is in Nova Scotia, so I went there last winter, just on a road trip to take a picture of it there. Now, there's another one that I took, which is the newest note for of Canada, which is the new $10 note. And I went to Winnipeg, just for a two day trip, I was able to find a really cheap flight out of Hamilton, Hamilton to Winnipeg at fault places. I was able to find a really cheap flight. So I went on a weekend trip over there. And that is the one when you started the call when you started this podcast. That's the one that you were mentioning the that was the one that was featured on CBC. Nice. Um, so CBC took note of that, and they said, oh, wow, someone came to visit Winnipeg from Toronto to take a picture. This is something like that. And they should feature   Pouya LJ  26:06 Yeah, a little bit of caveat for anybody who knows anything about geography of Canada and especially in the wintertime. I don't know when you went there was it winter or I think it was winter because I can see some snow there or there's some snow anyways. So point being it like you from Nova Scotia. You know, the Winnebago, they have nothing in common like there's like to go out of your way to go there. It's not like you're having a layover in Istanbul or Dubai or something. It's a different game. ballgame. So just I have to add that caveat for people who are not   Emaad  26:41 Yeah. And they're and they're far like,   Pouya LJ  26:43 yeah, now that's what I mean.   Emaad  26:45 The province where Toronto is, it's Ontario, and Winnipeg is in Manitoba. And they're both bordering each other. But the problem The biggest problem is trying to so far south in Canada, as opposed to other places in in Canada, like Winnipeg, in Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver. They're very far up north. Toronto is very far south. Yeah, it was a two hour flight just to win it back itself. Which is mind blowing. Because you're going north, you're going north, Northwest a lot. Yeah. But it was pretty cool. It was a fun trip. My flight got canceled on the way back, which is very fun as well. Oh. But that gave me more excuses. You know, travel, pay my friend. We decided to go to CES Saskatchewan, just to the border of it. And Funny enough, now that I'm remembering it. Well, we decided to do was we had a rental car. So we just extended one more day. And he said, You know what? It's a four hour drive to Saskatchewan, which going back to your Canadian geography has nothing in it. There's nothing in there. It's a whole province with nothing in it. Yeah, it's it's just in the middle of Canada. It's just land. There's nothing wrong. I don't think anyone even lives there. And it's just a four hour drive just to the border of it and the border of it. Believe it or not, there was nothing there. It was just a sign that said Welcome to Saskatchewan. So we took a picture with it just to prove that we have been here. And then we went on a four hour trip back to Winnipeg. And on that four hour trip back to Winnipeg, my friend drove and I decided to I decided to finish my application for my physics Master's. And I submitted it that night while I was somewhere on the road between Saskatchewan in Winnipeg.   Pouya LJ  28:38 Yeah, that's that's, that's pretty cool. And I'm actually trying to figure out how much the province like the population of the province, but for some reason I'm failing. I think it's I don't know if it's the city of population.   Emaad  28:54 No, there's a city called Saskatoon. And there's two major cities and ask a tune in Regina. Yeah, but the population of Saskatchewan. I find, I think it's 1 million.   Pouya LJ  29:07 Yeah, it's a gigantic province, with 1 million population.   Emaad  29:12 I think it's the I don't know if it's the biggest.   Pouya LJ  29:16 No, it's not the biggest, like on the map is definitely smaller than Ontario, Quebec, even British Columbia, but it's close enough to Alberta maybe a little bit smaller than Alberta. But point being it's still a lot of land there. And the entire population is like 1,000,001.1. Just Just to, you know, confirm your   Emaad  29:40 identity is there's one there's 1.86. So basically two people per kilometer squared. Yes, a few. If you create a box that is a kilometer wide and kilometer, that is just to each each side of the box is a kilometre, which is a very big number. There's only two people who live in there.   Pouya LJ  30:07 Yeah, that's a very big house for you.   Emaad  30:11 And versus Ontario, if I'm correct, the density of Ontario is 15 people per kilometer squared. Right? So that's, that's the key difference.   Pouya LJ  30:23 Yeah, that's like, so unfolds almost. Yeah. I'm done by five anyways. Um, yeah, what? Let's, let's move on a little bit, because we want to talk about we got to, you know, more computerized digital currencies, not necessarily digital currencies in terms of cryptocurrency, which we'll get to but, um, so we talked, we talked about technology coming into disrupting really anything, everything, and currency being one of them. for for for many reasons, why, now that that naturally brings us also to the realm of cryptocurrency, which, well, what are you going to do? cryptocurrencies don't have monuments on them printed, that they don't print? But joke aside? What are your thoughts on the digitization of currency and maybe even you know, distributed currencies such as cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin, what have you? Do? Do you have any interest in them? Do you read about them?   Emaad  31:31 Yeah, I do. I do a lot. And I, I think it's very interesting, not just from an investing perspective, but from a practical perspective.   Pouya LJ  31:40 Well, investment can be practical if you do it right.   Emaad  31:42 Investing can be practical, but it comes with its own caveats, especially investing in cryptocurrency, it's a very risky thing to do. Sure. And you could, you could probably just lose a lot of your money. If you invest, without thinking or without, you know, without the right tools without the right resources. If you do that, then you can lose a lot of money in crypto, but I was talking more so the practicality on the practical side of things on the technology behind it. how they've made something open source, and decentralized. They've made something which no one can touch and chain, no one person can go in and touch and change. Its cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and those things, they they're the Ledger's. They're, their records, they're everything, they, they stay with the people. There's no one person who controls everything. And I think that's that's a beautiful aspect of the digital currency. Because its power comes in its numbers. If a lot of people use Bitcoin, then it's more strong. There's more, I guess records, there's more copies of everything. And that technology can then be applied to so many different things that can be applied to contracts. blockchain can be applied to supply chain logistics, to ensure nothing has changed to ensure there's to ensure the right tracing of materials that people are getting food, and so many different things. But just from a currency standpoint, this is a very tough debate. Because a lot of countries a lot of banks are against this because this is against what they've been doing throughout throughout, I guess, throughout the startup humanity, or throughout the start of banking, at least because the main essence of a bank and a central bank is in the name. It's centralized. Yeah. And if you decentralize parents, if you decentralize money, if you decentralize your own local currency, then how are you going to achieve anything? In terms of you know, regulating power, regulating finances, making sure money doesn't go into the wrong hands. Even the wrong may be a subjective word. But there's so many different things that come in with it, that I personally believe it would be a bit tough to move to it all together. In my opinion,   Pouya LJ  34:12 by altogether You mean like removing the central banks from the central, the regular currencies of countries? Yeah. And making it the dominant. Okay.   Emaad  34:20 Yes. But with that, I also think it is hard for them, the centralized banks to completely remove cryptocurrencies. I mean, a lot of a bunch of countries have made it illegal to have them. I don't know which countries are but I remember there were a bunch of countries that said it's illegal to trade it or have it even. But they're not going anywhere, either. Because they're a force to be reckoned with. They're they're not they're not just something small with banks and say, Oh, that's illegal. Get rid of them. You know, Pete, they're, like I said before, their strength comes in how many people hold it, and I think that's going to be interesting. Day by day. I was talking to a friend of mine who wanted to transfer money from, I think it was from the EU or not from. Yeah, it was from Pakistan to the US. And she was asking me, what's the best way to do it. And whether she should wire transferred, whether she should Western Union it or something else. And I looked at the fees and wire transfer fees were more than 1500. dollars, she would have to pay Western Union fees were around that probably even higher, that she'll have to pay. And that's a huge chunk of your money that they're taking. Yeah. But I suggested, oh, why don't you just buy crypto over there? over the counter crypto, which is you're just paying someone money, and they transfer cryptocurrency to your wallet. And then you just transfer that crypto to whoever you need to send it to in the US. And that takes wire transfers can take two weeks, Western Union can take like at least a day or two that can take like five seconds, maybe a bit more obviously be based on based on how much you pay for the gas, etc. so many different things. But it's still less than less than a day, you can get money from here to there. And then they can just sell it over the counter or cash it out. Or they can do whatever they want. And that's how you can just easily transfer money using crypto as well. So I think it is a force to be reckoned with, what banks would need to do is figure out what's the middle ground here? How can they eat, right? incorporate that into their own systems into their own, into their own platforms? Because Funny enough, the weakest. The point, the place where digital currencies are weak, is the fact that some people can't trust them because they're decentralized. So they're like, oh, then who's going to be taking who's going to be, you know, handling it, who's going to be in charge of dispersing it and stuff. So there's no trust there. But on the other hand, people have started losing trust onto central banks themselves. Because they don't make the best policies. So it's sometimes it's better to have something decentralized.   Pouya LJ  37:29 Yeah, that does make sense. So there is definitely I mean, as with a lot of things, there's there are weaknesses and strengths. And obviously, one of the strength of cryptocurrencies, is mobility of it, etc. Also, just just to close that loop of legality, so the three countries that are definitely illegal, and there's like, there are some countries that have greater areas, but in Algeria, Egypt and Morocco is outright illegal, just for closing that loop. And there's a lot of other countries that are like, somewhere in between. Yeah, meaning some restrictions. But generally speaking, it's legal, etc. So we can put this into notes. And,   Emaad  38:19 yeah, for sure. So now there is something interesting that I, that I came across, and I worked with, I worked briefly with, with the team behind it. There's something called UBI. This is just very generic. There's something called UBI, universal basic income. Yeah, and this is something that has been debated in a lot of countries attempted in a lot of countries and a bunch of places at least, I think Germany is trying that out right now. And just giving universal basic income to some of its citizens.   Pouya LJ  38:54 Andrew Yang is making a lot of noise,   Emaad  38:56 Yang was making that the biggest point of his presidency, there were a couple of places I think in Canada that tried it, if I'm if I'm not wrong, a while back. And there's I can't get much into the details of it. But there is a there is a there's a consortium that is actually based in Canada, that is trying to get together a lot of UBI experts from around the world and work towards creating a global UBI which is going to be a key Their aim is that it's adopted throughout the world. And everyone gets a certain UBI per month, per day, per hour per second. I mean, there's going to be one amount per month, but then that's going to be per week and then you get that every second of your existence. And that's going to be actually I think one of the smartest ways to go about it would probably be on blog. And that's something that that I came across. And I briefly work with them on some of their some and some of the technical side of their project. And that's something that's very cool because now it's using blockchain using using utilizing blockchain, which is, again, the technology that's been brought forward by these digital currencies. And that's where the practicality thing comes in. But now they're putting it into a very large scale where they're asking for global adoption and global adoption for it. which hopefully would replace the need for conventional currency, and create a global system where everyone can earn a basic income to live, essentially, to at least cover where they're living to cover their food to cover their health related things. Which is, I believe it should be right for everyone. Everyone should be able to do that.   Pouya LJ  41:04 Yeah. So now the natural question, especially for universal UBI. Being while UBI has universal and but my point is being like around the world, not just containing a country. An actual question is cost of living and the value of currency, etc. is completely diff No, assuming we still trading regular currencies, not just the crypto ones, that there is a degree of asymmetry here that so is the proposal of this team. By the way, can you can you mention them by name?   Emaad  41:41 I don't know if that's? I mean, the name is global UPI.   Pouya LJ  41:44 Oh, you mentioned it? Okay. Yeah. Anyways, so is the proposal a fixed amount for every single person on the planet? Or is it different, depending on assessment of what are your cost of living? Where you live? by country, by city by province by? I don't know, what have you? Is there a distinction? Or it's just a fixed amount?   Emaad  42:09 See, that's the the project is I believe in preliminary phases, or I'm not 100% sure where they are, and whether they're in testing or whether they're sort of just beginning to research on it. And I frankly, do not know the answer to this.   Pouya LJ  42:27 Do you have Do you have your own thoughts on the matter?   Emaad  42:30 And the thing is, if if it is a global currency, and if everyone is has sort of access to the same currency? Yeah, then there shouldn't really be a problem with cost of living?   Pouya LJ  42:46 Well, I think I think there will be still, what, two two folds for one fold. Is that, okay, if we only adopt, I would,   Emaad  42:53 my question is, why would something be why would like, let's go to the Big Mac index, which is something I promise economists use. If there's a Big Mac in the US for let's say, let's say the the UBI currency, the new currency for the world is world dollars. Sure. There's a Big Mac in the US, which costs one world dollar. The currency in Turkey is also world dollar. Why would the Big Mac there be less?   Pouya LJ  43:26 Yeah. Okay, that's so that's that's the first fold of the problem, though I was talking about. And that is, as if that's the, okay, if that's the dominant currency traded?   Emaad  43:39 Sure. Their goal is to have world adoption of this. Okay. So that   Pouya LJ  43:45 will solve   Emaad  43:46 the would give way to, yeah, it would give away. Well, digital and non digital banks, central banks would give weight, this currency to come in. And the main essence of this currency is to make sure that it's secure and no one person would be able to access everything and change everything. Does that compromise the security of it? Yeah. So if there is, again, like I said, if there's a Big Mac for one US dollar, one world dollar, then wouldn't have the same Big Mac, we won World dollar somewhere else, because there's no other currency to base it off of. Yeah. So where would the cost of living? How would the cost of living and stuff be compared?   Pouya LJ  44:32 Well, you when you're talking about stuff, like I don't know, franchises or something? Yes, you're absolutely right. That makes sense. But if you're talking about for example, cost of land. Well, that definitely certainly has differences as you do within a country. Let's take Canada for example. Obviously, the price of homes in the heart of Toronto is completely different than say Saskatoon, that was what we were talking about, right? So, so in that sense, I mean, you can argue that the cost of living within The cities also started within the country is also different, which is reasonable. That's   Emaad  45:05 that's based on demand. Exactly supply that's really based off of, I mean, what the currency is doing, but it's no normal. So there's more space here more people want to live here.   Pouya LJ  45:16 Absolutely, they're gonna be worth more. So the land was an example of a commodity or, or something that would have different values, depending on where you are in a country and more importantly, in a world, right, that has the certainly has different, different many things have different values in different places in the world. And that alone can cost per debate, the cost of living by a lot, depending on which part of the world you're living, the basic cost of living, let's say, shelter, basic food, water, clean water, and   Emaad  45:51 I get what I get the question that you're I get what you're saying. And I agree that other things could be worth more other things could be worth less. And you're right, there's places in Canada right now, up very north, where food is so expensive. Exactly. Because they have to transport it over there and get it over there. So the cost of living over there is high. Yes, I agree with you. I agree with what you're saying that. Also living can be different because of these reasons. But the thing is that the UBI that I mentioned, sure, it doesn't aim to fully cover everything in your life. Yeah, of course. Because if it does that, then yeah, there's no motivation to do anything, even though that's a completely different debate with UBI motivation. But it's more so meant as a cushion for you. In some places, I mean, you could move to Saskatchewan. And you may be able to live comfortably on a UBI. Yeah, there's rent, there may be cheap food, there may be cheap. I mean, they're farmers, a lot of farms over there, but everything maybe cheap over there. So you might save money with the UBI. But where it says if you're in Toronto, then if you're getting a certain UBI, you may not be able to cover all your expenses with a UBI, you might still have to work. But I guess that's just the that's that's how this is. That's how everything should be. Because I mean, if if you're going somewhere else, if you're going somewhere where there's a very, there's very low demand for something and things should be cheaper. Yeah, if you're going somewhere where there's more demand and things would ideally be more expensive. That's the main essence of sort of a capitalist environment. Yeah, more equals more money.   Pouya LJ  47:44 No, absolutely. That That doesn't make sense. My concern was, and you're right, within a country, etc. So the difference that I was imagining is that the Delta within a country is much more marginal than a Delta currently, at least in the in the whole world. Like, if you give the highest value and the lowest value cost of living in different parts of the world, the delta is much larger than within one country. Okay, that actually to be argued, depending on the country you pick, but yeah, but for most of the world, at least. But I suppose if you and part of that comes from the the big Delta around the whole world, perhaps comes from the fact that the currencies have different values, maybe if you actually do a flatten out everything, and everybody adopts a common currency, at least as a dominant chords, that the trade end, I mean, it doesn't mean that the rest of the currencies will be eliminated completely, but they're not the main one at least, then maybe there's Yeah, maybe there's a degree of flattening this. This Delta make it a little bit smaller. That could be argued, I don't know. But that was Yeah, I'm just trying to paint a picture of what I was   Emaad  49:00 imagining. No, yeah, I understand. I understand what you're saying. But like I said, it's not something that is meant to replace everything in your life, and give you access to everything you want. Because that's gonna lead into way many more problems, because then everyone has access to whatever they want, for sure. But it's more so a cushion for you to at least live your life, to not starve on the streets do not to have your basic necessities at least covered wherever you are, you can be in Toronto, you could be wherever. And obviously, for the economic system to grow, people would still need to work because to create a living they would need there wouldn't be innovation around the world. And none of that is in danger. Because of UBI   Pouya LJ  49:45 Yeah, no, no, that makes sense. I mean, obviously these topics especially the UBI and cryptocurrency have endless spanned, and we can spend hours and hours talking about them which we may at some point, but We've come we've come a long way. I think all we've done almost one hour right now. So, yeah, I think it's a good place to, you know, close the loop on everything do you have? Do you have anything you want to add to summarize? No,   Emaad  50:16 not so much. I mean, I agree. This is a good, some good point. Where to where to pause it. And I'm sure there's going to be way many more discussions about UBI. And I'd love to, you know, have more. You, of course, as I as I research more on   Pouya LJ  50:32 it, exactly how I think about it. Now, I think it's gonna be really good. These discussions are obviously always fun to have and a lot of times constructive helpful. And yeah, I enjoy talking.   Emaad  50:47 Yeah. And yeah, that's really good. So it was a great, it was a great time discussing all these cool things.   Pouya LJ  50:53 Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. Okay, so we'll put your information in the show notes, too. But do you want to tell people where they can find you online?   Emaad  51:04 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm, you can find me on Instagram, which is pr racha explores. That's pa ra, ch, e XP l or Yes. Or you can also find me on LinkedIn, which is e mod beracha. That is e m, a D. and last name is parotta. Pa ra ch a, if you want to talk about anything regarding the currency project, which is going to be more on my Instagram, or more about physics, or UBI, or anything like that, and I'd love to talk more.   Pouya LJ  51:41 Yeah, that's awesome. As I mentioned, obviously, we're going to put this in the show notes, so anybody who didn't get that they can go and look it up there. Thanks again, Bob. I was really fun talking to you Jason

We kick off the newest addition to Beyond the Present podcast called the Entrepreneurial Edition with short talks from Daniel Molgan dedicated exclusively to business, entrepreneurship, real estate, stock market, Forex, and similar topics for those of our listeners who would like to improve their financial intelligence.   In the first program as part of the Entrepreneurial Edition Dan delves deep into the issue of Entrepreneurship and compares what it feels like to run your own business as opposed to working for someone else. The truth is that some will always be happier and more successful working for someone else while others will be the most fulfilled when they run their own businesses. This short program can help you decide which one is right for you!    Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more---- SUMMARY KEYWORDS entrepreneur, business, entrepreneurship, people, work, run, clients, deal, life, prospective client, job, employee, wealth, solopreneur, edition, values, create, hours, decisions, certain types SPEAKERS Dan   Dan  00:00 Hello, welcome to the first entrepreneurial edition of Beyond the present podcast. My name is Daniel Molgan. And in this edition of the beyond the present podcast we are going to talk about all things business investment, as well as finances so this particular edition is designed exclusively for the entrepreneurs or those who would like to improve their knowledge of entrepreneurship, business, finance and investment. So this of course, was way back there was a request by one of our basically listeners who requested such a program, of course and now here we are, we have this edition added to our basically podcast series and today we will start our first episode of the Evernote edition of Beyond the present podcast and today of course, this is our first episode of like actually sort of ride by the simple question of what is exactly entrepreneurship and whether or not you the listener should consider becoming one. So, as you probably already know, the word entrepreneurship nowadays is such Big deal. I mean, like it's become almost a global phenomenon, as well as a trend. And quite frankly, I think it's partially due to, you know, the new changes that we're seeing these days and social media and the way many entrepreneurs are using the platform to reach a wider audience, which has made the whole concept more popular. So basically, entrepreneurship is nothing more than you being able to offer your product or service at a profit to a specific customer or a group of customers. That's entrepreneurship, whether you are trying to let's say sell your musical for example, and knowledge as a let's say, a musician or as somebody who wants to sell the product that your company is making, whether you are offering your consulting, coaching services, whether you are set for example, selling you know, certain properties in real estate, all of these things. These are some examples of entrepreneurship that is the ability to run your own business and offer your product or service to a customer or groups of customers who are willing to To pay for that product or service. Now, that being said, isn't really all that simple. That is, knowing the difference is all that it takes to become a business owner? Of course not. So let's now talk about what it really takes to be a business owner and to run your own business. So first of all, there are two styles of entrepreneurship, we have one called solopreneur ship, as you probably know, about 40% of all entrepreneurs are actually solopreneurs. And almost 35% of all the companies registered in the US are run by one person. Now, personally speaking, solopreneur ship is one way to go about it, especially if you're you know, getting started with entrepreneurship because you don't have to pay for your staff. You don't have to hire anybody to have to get an office probably. And this allows you to work wherever you are. And this is of course, very popular among will be called a digital nomad entrepreneurs, that is bloggers, writers, programmers, and so on who they somehow use their own time, or when they want and of course, they get the profit that way. They're set Taiwan commercial force is what we call teamwork. That's when you begin and establish a team could be a team made of only two or three, for example, people or, let's say, individuals, or it could be perhaps made of, I don't know, hundreds or thousands of basically people. But usually most businesses start off with very few individuals involved in the process to run that business, and of course, to work towards improving its profitability. Now, it all depends on your circumstance. Well, Dan, first of all, I'm currently working at a job I got, for example, you know, let's say boss, and he pays me every month and I do my job, and I have my nine to five and all that stuff. Why in the world? Should I consider becoming an entrepreneur? So let me first tell you right now at this issue, you see, becoming an entrepreneur is not an easy thing. Let me just tell you right now, because it was like, well, that way I can work whenever I want. As a matter of fact, my experience proves that basically, getting a job technically is easier, both emotionally, physically and in terms of your time. Then running a business, yes, the 905, you got to wake up early, and then go to the office, stay there until five or whatever it is, come back home. So it's gonna take a lot of time, I just want to work two or three hours per day and be done with it. Well, the fact of the matter is that when you started your business, especially in the first few years, you actually will end up working much more than an employee at the same time, the chances are, your income will be less than a full time job. You see, that's what I've heard from almost any entrepreneur that actually know or have met personally, that is, in the first few years, not only they worked more hours, they actually made fewer dollars for those hours. So because of this, you have to ask yourself, do I really want to be an entrepreneur? Do I really want to run my own business? perhaps be become a consultant, perhaps, I don't know. start investing in real estate. Do I really want any of these things? And to answer that question, you have to look at yourself and your values. What are your values in life? Now everyone was seems like what what is Value values are why you do what you do. You see, every decision that you make stems from your values. So if you perhaps are currently an employee, the chances are some of your values include security, stability, being able to rely on a stable income, and more importantly, not having to think so much about work when you're not working. That is you want you value things like free time, leisure and work life balance. So if you look at the lives of most entrepreneurs, they would tell you that, unfortunately, a lot of those things simply don't exist in the world of business owners. That is, most business owners cannot necessarily determine like, Okay, I'm going to work from this hour to this hour and that I'm going to be fun. It's it's not really that easy for most entrepreneurs, especially in the first few years of any of the business to determine which hours they'll be working, which I was able to not because problems will pop up. There's gonna be some issues documentations taxations. Some other problems the clients might call you Marketing, and so on and so forth. And all of these things will actually make it harder for you to actually work whenever you want to work. So that's one of the things that will, perhaps if you have those values, if you really value let's say, work life balance, or you want to have certain hours just for working from hours, not for working, probably being a business owner probably is not for you from my point of view. Secondly, of course, is about the manner in which you want to run your business. You see, when you're an employee, you have a specific task and responsibility. And oftentimes, your job is about doing whatever task you're responsible for. However, when it comes to running a business, it's far more about the human factor than it is about the technicality of what you do. Because as an entrepreneur, you're supposed to actually do a lot of things, especially if you have a smaller team or even if you're a solopreneur. You have too many things all by yourself things like marketing, things like sales, things like talking to your clients. For example, things like following up with those clients and Of course, dealing with all the headaches that come with dealing with bad clients, you see, when you're working for somebody else, your job is very simple. And it's very clear, do this and do this from this hour to this hour. But as an entrepreneur, there are no such clear boundaries as what you must do. Because sometimes your clients might actually have requests that you never thought perhaps would come up. Sometimes you deal with, let's say, clients that are not necessarily your best clients with all these like bad clients or clients from help, who somehow give you trouble and they have all these excuses for doing business or asking for discounts too much or this and that. So you kind of know that basically, right? So as an entrepreneur, you have to deal with a wide variety of people who are your potential customers. This is one of quite frankly, one of the disadvantages of being an entrepreneur, especially if you are a solopreneur. Or if you have very small team, we have to be involved with everything or with every client. And that's usually most basically often the case with those who begin their business. So just imagine that if you're employed employee, you deal with certain types of people from a certain social background, certain, you know, things that you have in common, perhaps your colleagues who are also in let's say, the IT sector or in the, you know, hospitality sector or in the, let's say, restaurant business. So you see and meet the same type of people, and you interact with them in the same type of basically way. But as an entrepreneur, you basically are dealing with all sorts of people, many of whom You will never ever actually want to meet in real life. I mean, like, if you are, let's say, an entrepreneur, you deal with all sorts of people that most of whom You will never ever be friend in real life, for example, right? This is just, you know, a fact, you might end up talking with somebody have almost nothing in common with, but he or she is a prey, you know, perhaps a prospective client who might actually order let's say a project or ask one of your for example, services or so on and so forth. So, because of this, the human element is very important. So as I was writing this question, how easy It is for you to deal with all sorts of people, many of whom probably will not have a lot in common with you. Because this is the biggest challenge of entrepreneurship, the human elements and the emotional elements. Because if you, for example, don't know how to perhaps deal with people who are, let's say, a little bit more strategic on the side, let's do some clients who use certain tactics to get a good discount, or certain clients who perhaps are not quite upfront with their desires about your products, so they end up for example, postponing or canceling in a way that seems believable. But of course, you know, that these guys are actually faking it. So you have to create, you know, have to create those, basically, patterns. But you know, okay, this client is a time waster these clients actually playing with right now. Oh, this is actually a very good client. Oh, this guy is actually very trusted, like, I should trust him, but this lady probably not so much. So you need all these social skills to be able to manage your time because as an entrepreneur You need to be able to make a certain quota, whatever it is for you, basically. And you have certain amount of time with you and your team and your, let's say, staff members. So the worst thing you can do as an entrepreneur is to spend that time with the wrong people doing the wrong things, or simply doing things that are not quite valuable for your time, which is why the second element of entrepreneurship is personal management and time management. You see how well are you in terms of being able to manage your time and your basically plans? Are you more disciplined or are you more spontaneous, the more spontaneous types? Well, from my point of view, unless you're involved in certain types of artistic career, they are generally better off working as employees because that those working hours creates that structure for them. So that okay, well, I got to go to work from nine to five, and then I'm free, right? And this allows our lives to be more organized. But if you are, let's say more spontaneous, I'm gonna run your own business. You might run into a lot of trouble because organization and discipline is very Are you critical in running your own business to know like, these are the hours, okay, I should do this, I should do that. That's the second element, you have to work on very well. The third element of entrepreneurship, of course, and the valley that most entrepreneurs aspire to, is freedom, and being able to make your own decisions. You see, that's perhaps the biggest advantage of an entrepreneur, again, you pay a lot for it. Let's be honest, because we're an employee, your boss makes all the decisions. It's very simple, or you're a supervisor. But when you run your own business, you get to decide what kind of job you will do, how you will do it, and with what types of people so you have this autonomy of deciding and making decisions about your business and the kind of people you tend to work with. I think that's, of course, very, very important score. Of course, it's totally worth all the effort and struggle, that have to go through to, you know, become an entrepreneur. But from my point of view, if you look at the values of entrepreneurs, they they seek freedom. They seek independence, and of course, In most cases, if you look around you, you realize that in most cases, those who are successful as entrepreneurs tend to create much more wealth than those who are highly skilled professionals who tend to work for somebody else. It's just a you know, a simple matter of mathematics. So if your ambitions financially is pretty high, the chances are you should aim for being an entrepreneur, but then please be be aware that the majority of revenue as of today, an average entrepreneur make makes about 40 to $45,000 a year in the US, as you probably know, the average income in the US is actually higher than that is over $52,000 a year right. So being an entrepreneur does not mean that you are going to be rich, because becoming rich itself is once you run a business and is very successful, and then can actually generate profit and then repeat that process. So if your sole motivation to get on hers to get rich quickly, the chances are you will be disappointed. Because in most cases, entrepreneurs, especially the first five to 10 years, you've actually do not generate massive wealth. If you look around you and like, you know, very famous top entrepreneurs, multi billionaires Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, you realize that they actually went through a very long process and it took them decades to accumulate their wealth, and the same thing of force apply. So all other entrepreneurs, so if your sole motivation to be an entrepreneur is to just basically have higher income, I got some bad news for you. If you really think that by become an entrepreneur, you will become a millionaire, I don't know in a couple of days or months or even years, but chances are you will be disappointed. So write and ask yourself, What do I value? Do I want to explore possibilities that are out there in the marketplace? Do I want to have the freedom to decide what kind of work I will do? How I will get them done? What kind of people I will serve? Or do you have the desire to perhaps be your own boss or make your own decisions, or instead you value things like security, you Think of work as a means of service, getting your money and then moving on with your life because let's be honest, I am not at all saying that everybody should be not Brunner. As a matter of fact, I know that most people should not become entrepreneurs, because that's what math says. Most entrepreneurs fail in the long run. Most businesses fail in the long run. So if you want to get in the club, you should really ask yourself is this for me or not? and becoming wealthy can be easily done by getting a job in a very high, you know, highly prestigious company or a corporation. So that's not the only path to wealth. There are many ways towards wealth. There's of course the path of personal investments, we're gonna later talk about hopefully, in other episodes, how you can actually invest in different things to increase your net worth. But ultimately, if you want to run your own business, you better have a very, very strong and you know, reliable reason to become the kind of person who will run basically his or her business because the the path ahead will be very difficult and it's not going to be an easy Ride, if you will, because you will deal with a lot of obstacles, the learning curve in most businesses is actually very steep at the beginning, so you have to spend many hours, days, weeks, months or even years, learn the business, and then you can actually move on to generating profits. So having said all of those things, now let's talk about what time people should not become entrepreneurs, and that they will actually be more successful getting a job. You see. Not everybody, from my point of view, should aim to be an entrepreneur, because doing so could actually push their plans way back. So the people who should not consider entrepreneurship, from my point of view, are those who believe in a clear work life balance and structure to see entrepreneurs that I know of personally. Generally, their lives are not as orderly and organized and a lot of people among us, we value organization in order. So if you want that level of order in your life, where things are happening in order Probably running a business will make you very unhappy. Even if you make more money you will be unhappy. I mean, do you really like to make more money and then be unhappy all the time? What's the point anyways? Right? So the second question, of course, is, Are you the kind of person who would prefer to deal with certain types of people, and do not really enjoy talking with people from all walks of life, that's very important, because as an entrepreneur, especially if you have like a big kind of business, or the kind of is that actually serve a mass audience, especially if it's like, you know, aimed at almost anyone who can come and become your client, let's say restaurant businesses, let's say I don't know health and fitness business, let's say coaching and consultancies, all of these things, you will have to deal with people, you know, people from all walks of life, kinda like you know, being a doctor where almost anybody can be a patient. So, are you the kind of person who enjoys dealing people from all walks of life, and not necessarily those who are like you are who share your opinions. Think about those who are completely unlike you, whose lifestyles are not at all like you, if you are the kind of person who prefers to only spend time with certain types of people, for example, those who are at your level of education, those who live in your town or those share your beliefs, ideologies, and so on, that again, better not information may be very unhappy, because you will end up dealing with people from many different walks of life, who you have to deal with, because they are your prospective clients or prospects. And because of this, you need to somehow feel but upset about this matter, because maybe you really don't enjoy dealing with somebody who is I don't know, perhaps 3040 years older than you or opposite 20 years younger than you or somebody who is coming from a very different background that perhaps is very radically different from your background, right. So if you don't enjoy that kind of experiences, interactions, probably it's better to get a job so you can actually have a smaller social circle made of like minded people. And finally, is About your major goal in life is C, running a business is pretty much a group endeavor. It's really about other people, it's about serving other people creating value for the society. And it's a very rewarding experience. But if you're the kind of person who values perhaps more deeper things in life, like you really enjoy perhaps discussing the details of nature's philosophy for hours, and you perhaps don't want to be, let's say, interrupted by a customer, talking about, oh, we have a problem with the piping of this house, for example, then maybe you should not consider working on your own and perhaps at least delegate those kind of tasks with, you know, for other people who are willing to be interrupted. Some of us we don't really like to be interrupted when we're doing something we want to like, focus on that thing. Entrepreneurship is kind of like being a fireman at any one moment. Something could go wrong. There's sort of problem right here. It should be addressed. You should always be on a standby mode, if you will, for your job and your business. And if you don't Like that approach again, there are many other ways to be wealthy, you do not necessarily have to opt to run your own business. Now, of course, was the beginning. And I really believe that becoming entrepreneur from my point of view is a very rewarding experience. And I think if you have listened well to us up until now, you probably have now a basic idea of what it really takes to be an entrepreneur, and whether or not you should become an entrepreneur. But don't worry, even if you don't want to be an entrepreneur, there are many ways to create wealth without running a business or establishing a group of people who serve customers. There are many simpler ways to become becoming wealthy, including invest in real estate which can be done all by yourself without running a basically a lot of businesses and without having to deal with tech stages, all that stuff or a team or so on and so forth. And in this series, hopefully the entrepreneurial vision of the podcast we will discuss them one by one. And of course, we will also at some point address other issues such as forex stock market, they basically investment as well as other types of business and And financial topics. So that's all we have for guys. I hope you enjoyed our first episode as part of the entrepreneurial edition of the enterprise and podcast. Of course, as always, you have any questions or you would like me to talk about a specific business or financial topic, just send me a message. You can reach me anywhere Dan Molgan and I will be glad to answer it. Hopefully they're on podcasts or face to face or live. Alright guys, that's all the time we have for Thank you very much. And let's see what it takes to become an entrepreneur. For now. I wish you all a wonderful day or night ahead depending on where you are. All of our beautiful planet. Have a good one.

It is said that words alone make up about 7% of our communication and the other 93% is made up of our tonality and especially body language. However, in the era of digital technology in general and a period ravaged by the coronavirus pandemic in particular we are seeing a dramatic increase in virtual forms of communication from text messages and stickers to audio and video calls.    In this episode of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss the main differences between face to face communication and distant communication made readily available by the internet and offer suggestions on how to use the new technology in order to make our communication more effective.    Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript: ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS communication, text, virtual, texting, person, body language, face, people, talking, tonality, energy, meeting, friends, teleportation, arranging, childhood dream, phone call, important, urgent, means SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of beyond the present Podcast. I am as always joined here with Daniel Mulligan How's it going, Dan?   Dan  00:18 Hey, the man buddy glad to be here with you the one and only paychecks to have another let's talk addition another great episode to discuss things that matter and life is of course, great as usual. We are trying our best to go through this situation. Fortunately, things are getting a little bit better in some countries have it worse than some others. So now things are quite fine. I from my point of view in the Middle East, things are also quite fine in Russia. The US is gradually recovering. Unfortunately I heard some bad news about Germany because they had a basically a protest the other day about this all these limitations against the coronavirus pandemic. Some people are saying this whole is just a hoax and all that stuff. And as you probably know, I've moved the headquarters of my European company from Finland Gemini and this was a little bit problematic, because this year, Gemini is going through a lot of changes in terms of perhaps we're gonna have a new election and Merkel is going to leave and somebody else going to come and now there's a virus. So a little bit of problems in the European Union right now. But everywhere else things are quite fine. Zoo usual with all of our plans.   Pouya LJ  01:18 Awesome. Good to hear that. Now, the progression of the Coronavirus is one thing but one thing that it did, it made a lot of real in person physical communication, move to a virtual space such as calls or a loop, right? Yeah. I'm here today we're sitting here to talk about that the difference between these two and the impacts it might have had or keeps having on our communications. So let's listen let's let's dig in. So what is the essence of a virtual virtual communication that is different than a physical communication and in person face to face communication, in your opinion?   Dan  01:58 Very well. So if anybody here Among our listeners, just from NLP or neuro linguistic programming, one of the comments on this field of endeavor is that communication is basically only about three to 5% made of words. It's almost about let's say 25 to 35% in terms of vocal tonality and voice and so on, and the rest of it the majority is actually body language. So, if you look at the indication for you know, from, from these types of words, which is voice and tonality, which is yet small, but important, of course, then just words and then body language as the most important element of communication, you realize that virtual communication especially texting is probably the least effective means of communication. Now, obviously nowadays we have things like stickers. And I don't know emojis and all that. But even those things still not fully help us convey our emotions well in our communication. So, because of this, you can probably guess, as an extrovert that I am how I personally feel about, you know, verbal communication. So I use it just like anybody else. As part of my business communications, I rarely use virtual communication, to I don't know, just to have fun or pass my time because for me, that's just strictly business or to be in touch with friends and basically, in different parts of the world. So if I'm right now sitting in one city, let's just say that right now, I'm in Warsaw, Poland, and I are going to be texting my friends in Poland or in Warsaw, I will be texting my friends in other countries. But if I am in Warsaw, and I want to practice my polish, I am only going to be meeting my friends face to face because I believe that effective communication requires focus and physical presence. That's my personal take on that. Now, of course I do know that there are some people who are not necessarily as extroverted as I am, and they're rather shy. So for these people, obviously, such means of communication, like texting can be very helpful because, you know, somehow protect them from that shyness. But for most of us, I do not see virtual communication, especially via texting and stickers and so on as anything more than just purely business and it's not really efficient. So, personally, I'm not a huge fan, but at the same time, I do know that in the you know, especially in my line of work, which I worked through from all around the world, it is but impossible to rely only on face to face communication, because I mean, the only case that that might be possible, if my childhood dream is realized, and humanity invents teleportation and I was in my childhood dream since a very young age everybody asked like what's like the one superpower you want to have? And it was like all things I want, like freeze time, all those things. That wasn't one thing instant teleportation to any part of the world that was like, you know, my childhood dream. So until and unless I'm I'm telling you right now, by the way, if if Sunday, there is I will perhaps abandon all virtual communication altogether. And I will simply rely on faces condition, all my interactions. But as of today, unless you're living in some fantasy world, there is no such thing as teleportation, which means we need to use and virtual communication to reachable from all parts of the world. And basically to communicate, this also saves a tremendous amount of time, as well as you know, it reduces our carbon footprint to the environment. If you want to always move around with your car or with you know, planes, you generally are gonna increase a lot of basically carbon emission, and that's bad for our planet. But if you look at this issue, at this moment, there is a you know, from my point of view, there's a great plus here for virtual communication and that it saves time and it you know, saves our planet. But other than that, there are so many disadvantages to you know, vertical integration that I personally can actually go In Depth to all of them, but personally, am I a fan of verbal communication? No. Do I use it? Yes, probably more than most people. And do I like it? Probably not. But I have no other choice because we don't have teleportation. Come on guys think of something.   Pouya LJ  06:16 So I was just when you were talking about   Dan  06:20 this job guys like you to make this happen.   Pouya LJ  06:24 Yeah. Well, working on it. No, but when you were talking about teleportation, the first thing that came to my mind was Dan jumping in and out of rooms and it's like, Hey, buddy, I have to go.   Dan  06:37 Of course, in your personal life, too. It's not just always about business. You can also do a lot of stuff with that stuff.   Pouya LJ  06:42 Yeah, the sky's the limit. Right. All right. Okay, so, so let's let's actually do jump into for some of the, I've analyzed the disadvantages one by one, but   Dan  06:53 go further because believe it or not, our listeners might not know this. I actually learned a lot a lot more about these things. And you are one of the I actually got me more hooked with virtual condition of all kinds because I wasn't so much into it, I would actually ask you yourself, which is so how much do you use it? How well to use of course, our listeners know that we have a difference in terms of our temperament. So I'm more extroverted and you're more introverted. So how do you use, you know, this, this form of communication? And how well and how much you actually use it? for what purposes?   Pouya LJ  07:23 Right? Well, I mean, so that's a very good question. But my attitude is slightly different. I do agree with you that nothing beats the physical in person face to face communication when it comes to stuff that actually do matter. By do matter, means I mean, that, you know, they're convoluted and complex enough that you require some degree of, quote unquote codebreaking to understand exactly what that person means. So if I'm having a debate with somebody on it, let's say an important issue, I don't want to do it on a phone call. I want to do it in person, preferably, but if not possible, the next best thing would be a video call. I don't even I don't even engage in such a debate in a voice, you know, stream of communication, which is I think, lacking a lot. However, like I do like it for a lot of scenarios, for example, if I'm scheduling something to for meetup, like the plan is clear what we intend to do, but it's just a timing that we're trying to figure out. I would like to use the text of course, because then that person can take the receive my text, take their time, go on their calendar, whenever they know if it works for them or not, give a give a text back to me and we can get to it can take as long as they can. It needs unless it's an emergency, like a meet up kind of situation in which you pick up the phone and call them and fix it. But my point is, there are scenarios that I think even a text communication can be quite useful or often often is not a communication but just a ping. Just heads up is like oh, I'm ready in five minutes done, you   Dan  09:03 probably the best usage of virtual communication anyways. Right?   Pouya LJ  09:07 Right. Right, exactly. So point being that, like, obviously, there's a lot of good things that come out of it. But if you unilaterally go on a text based communication, then obviously you're missing a lot and the you being the rhetorical unit, I know you don't do that. But, but But yeah, and I agree with you. So I cannot, I don't, I cannot think of a way that we can beat the physical face to face in the same room in the same place. Kinda kind of communication on on more complex topics that perhaps we are trying to convey to one another.   Dan  09:42 Absolutely, absolutely true. It makes sense.   Pouya LJ  09:45 Yeah. Now let's actually go into deep and say why this is actually what what what are we exactly missing? So obviously, there are layers. So we can go one by one or you can jump between them doesn't matter really. But obviously there's there's a physical thing in the same room, let's say Place, there's a video of the the video format of a video conference or video call, then we have the voice. And then we have the text combined with emojis or without emojis, what have you. Okay, so so let's go obviously physical things has a lot that is missing in a video format Can Can you can go deeper into what is missing exactly between those two.   Dan  10:24 So first of all, let's compare them in details we have facing this indication. Now it was once talking about this issue with one of our basically seminar attendance and I asked him So guys, do you feel right now there's a lot of you guys basically here and sitting here and next to each other and you feel the energy, right? And one of my basically seminar attendance was also a great friend of mine. He said, Listen, Dan, I think it's because of the soul of these people. So our souls come to one another and we create that energy or vibe. I don't know about that because science still has not proven the existence of solar. Spirit. However, we all know that once we are in the physical presence of other people, it always feels different. This could be the vibration they emit from the surface of their skins, as we know that in quantum physics, that everything is vibrating, and there's an energy level involved. So when you're talking to a real human being face to face, whether you call it spirit, or whether you call it the quantum vibrations of their, let's say, body or their energy level, or simply their heat and the temperature, they generate through, you know, their body temperature, whatever it is, there's always bigger impact in terms of what they do to you and how you feel. Other than that, it's about communication itself. So as mentioned, the biggest aspect of communication is your body language. Imagine I'm smiling first right now because we have a podcast that's nearly audio. Imagine I'm smiling, and I tell you like, oh, man, come on. Now. Compare that With someone changing his facial expression and tonality and say, Hey, come on, these two imply very different meaning. I can say, you idiot with a very aggressive, for example, tone, I can say, you idiot. These are very, very different meanings, right? So, because of the fact that body language conveys the majority of the meaning of interaction, because let's be honest, when you're talking to somebody else, most of what you are perceiving of that interaction is the body language. This is how the brain is wired, basically. And if you're saying things, are those things sincere or not, so for example, let's say you text your buddy or your girlfriend or your boyfriend in the morning, and what's up, she texts back. I'm doing fine, smiley smiley. But let's say you saw her in the same room The next morning and say, What's up, she says, another Monday. She Yeah.   Pouya LJ  13:01 So   Dan  13:02 you will perceive of these two communications the same even though they have the same verbal context, I'm doing fine. Which is why face to face communication, first of all conveys more information about the person allows us to understand whether the other person is being sincere and telling exactly how he or she feels. For example, lie detection itself worse only in person, you cannot, you know, use lie detection solely by texts unless you're making some very serious mistakes, right? Where they are saying things that are very contradictory. But in reality, you can understand people better face to face, you know how you're feeling, you understand whether what they're saying is like a let's say, sarcastic comment. It's an aggressive comment, you feel it, all of those, and you take it in, on a subconscious level. And by the way, you don't have to be a trained body language expert to understand most of these. Now it is true that if you have deep you know, studies and body language, you can do a lot of cool things like knowing for example with a person's language, not by opportunity. 95% accuracy, whether the person is sincere or not, whether what he or she says, will actually be done. These are all the things you can learn through additional study of body language, it can make you do some crazy stuff that seems like magic, but it actually can be done with body language. But even if you have no concept of what even what the word body language means, you can still by nature, the way we are our brains wired, we can understand other people's feelings and emotions. And because of this, we are missing out on all of these things when we rely on virtual communication. However, in virtual communication, we also have video calls, which is probably the best form of basically, virtual communication because in that case, you have what you know what they're saying. That is the words they're using. You hear their tonality, and you see their faces, but still, since it's not exactly 3d, it is it doesn't carry the same weight. It's the closest thing that comes to face miscommunication, but it's not the same actually. And if you add up On top of that, you know the connection problems. And let's say that light in the room and all those things, you will have even more problems. But overall, as I mentioned earlier, you can always improve the quality of our, let's say virtual communication if we try to model it after real face to face communication. So I mentioned earlier about emojis, that's a great inclusion, and will allow us to kind of get Is there like a sarcasm? Or is it real? So these are the things that can actually add up. But in the end, as I mentioned earlier, the major absence of body language, as well as tonality makes most text based syndications from my point of view, not efficient at all, and probably close to three or 4%. Effective.   Pouya LJ  15:43 Yeah, no, that that makes a lot of sense. Because as social animals, we're biologically wired to, you know, understand a lot of these things even though sometimes we don't know what we're understanding, really, oh, how are we doing it? Actually, there's a good book. I mean, not exactly on this, but talks about this blink by Malcolm Gladwell, which does talk about this a little bit if people are interested to read more, they're welcome Of course. Yeah. So I mean, especially the tech specs, or text based communication is too far from the physical one. Now when we got a voice as you mentioned for example, you were reading that sentence I forgot what the exact wording was. But no, you can you can imagine it with every kind of sentence What the hell are you doing? Or Oh, you said you idiot. Yeah, it could we could when you introduce it tonality becomes different. Now there's all from obviously, and the subtle subtle little ones which becomes more obvious when you see people now with the role of an eye for instance, now that you can again, get in a video setting, even body language to extent if the entire body is visible into camera, you can get Can you can you can you explain like in a little bit of a detail, maybe maybe that's the energy thing. That you talk about, but what is it exactly that we don't get beyond the video compared to physical?   Dan  17:06 Well, what you mentioned about energy. First of all, I believe in that energy part because that is actually proven by science. You're I mean, you probably know far more about this than I knew, basically. And it's called quantum physics. So basically, all living organisms are basically generating heat and energy is just quite normal, which is why we need to, you know, things like food and rest to be able to keep expanding, we lose cells and burn and burn energy to, you know, build new cells. So that energy asked me what I think it's very important. So real people, they are emitting energy. Now some get spiritual call of things like aura or spiritual energy. Maybe that's the case. I'm neither gonna basically confirm nor deny because in this regard, I will remain nearly agnostic, because science cannot prove it, but at the same time, science cannot disprove it. So I will not comment on that. But science has already proven that there is this thing called vibrations of basically organisms and the energy they emit. So that's one thing. The other factor is being with other people, you're not just seeing them, you are also smelling them even at a very deep, subconscious level. You see, everyone carries with themselves a smell. Now that smell could be very pleasant, like Anna, let's say and very nice odor they've added can be very unpleasant as you probably know, a few a few hours. If you're someone like me, who goes to gym frequently, and happens to be this god awful place called the locker room. And you probably know what, what I'm talking about. So people are also, you know, emitting a lot of smell. And when it comes to the cases, like, basically meeting or funding your partner has actually proven basically that people tend to release basically based upon their hormonal status, they send different smelling signals, that implies whether or not they are open for me. So believe it or not, maybe you're out there talking to someone and you suddenly feel a sense Of Attraction without knowing why you like that man or woman? And the answer is pheromones. So pheromones are now it's not just for humans it exists on all basically living organisms. So the pheromones exist only in face to face communication which is why I'm so against Tinder. Gosh, and I hate this but even more popular these days, just such a such a terrible way to meet someone. So pheromones are like this. So you tend to admit that smell to attract mates basically and all that stuff? Obviously, it's about the way you dress so as you probably have seen, there's a lot of you know, memes and jokes about this. People dressing top up very professionally while they're wearing their underwears below as they're looking at, you know, the laptop so that's like a new thing. And especially working remotely due to the coronavirus pandemic has made this even more popular people dressing all nice, they got the suit on on top and they're wearing their you know, mommy's underpants basically right there. So it's like a kind of like not the same thing. And more importantly, in person, you probably get the chance Yesterday will be called touch or because as you as you know, in NLP, we say we have five major senses. And all that we are is the result of those five senses. And one of those critical senses is actually the sense of touch. Things like a handshake things like a hug, things like, I don't know, tapping their shoulders or holding them or all of these things. These are going to also add a lot of meaning and emotional components to our communication that simply are not present in virtual communication, basically. So when you add these things together, plus that energy level, then you realize why it is a lot more efficient to perhaps communicate using body language and face to face then using the internet and virtually   Pouya LJ  20:40 not. So that's amazing now, now the natural question is okay, we try. We tried to do a lot of it in person as much as necessary. But obviously we're in it, especially now in time we're in a circumstance not just because of the enablers of the technology, but actually because of the circumstance. A lot of things are being done. Without the physical presence, like people are working remotely and having their meeting and what have you, or even texting each other for First off, I mean, one good example of a potential solution to use these visual visual forms of communication, but still convey the most that you want was to include emojis, for example, and text. That's a great example. Now, are there things that you can advise? On the for example, well, even text again, but voice and video specifically to convey your messaging better? as a as a messenger not receive? Of course? Yeah,   Dan  21:34 of course. Well, I think in this regard, you're definitely more experienced than I am because most of my virtual communication is strictly limited to business. I tend to avoid basically, communications that are on a personal friendly or romantic level via text or calls or these things because I'm a firm believer, especially when it comes to important emotional relationships. Let's say with your parents, let's say with your partner with your children. really believe that, for example, having these types of indications of via virtual, you know, virtually via text or these things, it's a lot easier but efficient, very inefficient. So most of my virtual communication usually occurs in my personal professional life has been avoided in my personal life as much as possible. So when it comes to professional, basically life, however, I really like to emphasize on being quite clear in your text, because one of the biggest issues of texting is that there are two major problems. Number one is that you might not imply what you're reading me. And number two is that time distance. So for example, if I'm talking to you right now, Face Face to face, and I'm saying like, so what do you think? And then you look at my eyes, looking at different distance, direction, and don't talk to me at all. In a real physics application. What do we assume here projects   Pouya LJ  22:56 was kind of insulting is to   Dan  22:58 you know, say not insulted. You feel like Excuse me, I'm talking to you, dude. Right? So you feel or if you don't feel insulted, you might feel like, what happened to me is he is he depressed? So this brings about basically, you know, some weird things. And we are, by the way, evolutionary wired this way. So because we did not have virtual communication that on a massive scale for about let's see, I don't know, for the past, we only had it for the past, let's say 1020 years. Now, of course, we had telephone before that. But even that was like, even if this whole thing begins with the telephone, which is, I don't know, about 100 years old or something that is still a very a tiny fraction of our evolutionary history. So that was more like, I don't know, perhaps, if our all of our evolutionary background was 24 hours, the invention of virtual communication, including Telegraph's and so on, is probably less than 1% of that 24 hours. So imagine, like, we are not wired emotionally for that kind of indication. So if I'm talking to you right now, and you're looking at this and you feel like Dude, this guy doesn't respect me or something like this, but in virtual communication, I mean, you can Do this, because maybe the person that you're texting, he's, I'm sorry, he's maybe he's using the bathroom, maybe it's an important meeting. Maybe he's trying to make love to his partner, maybe there's something going on. Maybe he's really is depressed and doesn't even want to meet. Because if you are really down and depressed, let's say, I don't know somebody is depressed or to have a health problem, you're not going to go out to meet your friend, but anyone can reach you. 24 seven, I was talking to a friend of mine, and she was a lady. And she really felt like I'm feeling a sense of April. I feel like very down and sad. So that person, if you text him or her, she's not going to respond to it because you're here she is feeling down. But in a real communications that will never happen because you will not meet her in the first place. Right? So because of all these challenges that you know the if you're occurs over distance, there comes a series of issues. Number one, the timing of the response. Someone might not respond to our texts for two days. And we assume, oh, this guy doesn't respect me. But in fact, the person is Perhaps really busy, or maybe in a bad mood, or you don't know what's going on, or maybe simply he did not even, he forgot to respond or you want to send a text or there was a connection. So all of these issues and get in the way, which is why I would like to create, basically, and I like to, you know, create a rule for texting that I personally use all the time. And my rule is very simple. I send a text to someone. And when I send a text to someone that I, you know, no, I expect a response. It's very normal. Everybody does that. Now the person might not respond to it. This means perhaps the person is not available or is not willing. Either way. I wait. Because, you know, we're not there. I'm not waiting for that person. Maybe he or she's in the middle of something important. Maybe he or she is not there. So I wait. And if I realize that waiting did not change and I have not so got my response. I'm not going to send the second or third message. Instead, I will simply make a phone call. Why? Because when you make a phone call it implies I we're discussing something urgent and important right? requires your attention. But when you're sending a text by its very nature text, which is what we call a low investment, social activity. So if I'm sending a text to you, it means what I'm saying is not urgent, and could be responded at any moment. That's what I assume basically, right? So, in all my business interactions, if I'm sending an email or a text, I not expecting an urgent response. If I do, especially in the case of email, I would instead prefer to make a phone call. Now if a phone call is for whatever reason not possible, I simply add over the text or email. Your fast response will be appreciate I usually answered about in my email, over text, I wouldn't do this because text by its very nature is what we call an on urgent form of communication. So I do not expect my texts to be respond too quickly because if I want a response quickly, I will make a phone call instead, for whatever but let's say I want to talk to my supplier and say I want to talk to my For example, security, but whatever it is, if it's urgent, I have to make a basically phone call instead. So anybody who's using texts from my point of view, they should use the same strategy. If you want to say something, something is very important and urgent, you should not use texting because texting is merely a text. It lacks vocal tonality. It lacks body language. And in many cases, even though it lacks Smiley's, especially in case of physical location. So, it almost implies that I'm just another text like all the other text, so you should not necessarily expect to respond quickly. And generally speaking, I also believe we should follow the pattern of the person. So if I sent a text right now, and the person responds after 20 minutes, that implies he or she might be very busy. But if he or she responds immediately, that means that he or she is available. So in that case, again, if finally the person is immediately available, I'm not going to keep texting, I'll just call the person. It's like, Oh, this guy's actually available. Let's call wine. I will use every opportunity Just stop texting and start calling speaking video calling because I want my communication to be as close to the physical limitation as possible. Because texting is a perverted version of communication, it's not the   28:14 field and the   Dan  28:17 and for that reason, if anything, if you're if you are upset about something you should not expect over text you should call the person if you want to clear something that has not clarified yet, you should call or you should have a video call for all these important issues, I recommend using video and voice voice calls and not text and I like to use text for things of that are either extremely the now like See you at this time or beer at this time or I will see you in front of this place like these you know, been there done that kind of stuff very simple telecommunication command based or for things that are not very urgent. Like if I really want to say like oh man, check this out very nice. This This does not require an immediate response right. So for that reason Save texting for things that are neither urgent nor very important. And the more important and the more urgent the text or communication is, I actually converted text to a phone call or a video call. And ideally, I don't do any of those. I just arrange a meeting if I'm in the same city, I will do all face to face.   Pouya LJ  29:17 Yeah, that's perfect. No, that's good. I think we covered a lot. Obviously, this topic is on exhaustible, you can keep going, so you have to come to a national halt. And that is, I think, a good place to do that unless you want to add something up or do a summary of what we talked about.   Dan  29:33 That's right, very well. So we had a great time. Today, of course, we discussed the issue of virtual communication. Now, as you probably know, I am a critic of virtual communication. I'm not a huge fan of it. And I explained all the reasons why and mainly is because first communication is not as efficient as actual face to face communication. However, there's a huge advantage to virtual mediation, that's there are no limits on with whom you can speak, when you can speak and wherever that person might be. Right Because the internet and communication were This is called communication at the speed of light. So we have no limitations in this regard. However, that lack of limitations also creates its own set of problems, which we addressed in terms of knowing how to respond and how to text someone. And more importantly, we emphasize the importance of trying to make our virtual communication as close to the real version as possible by including things like video calls, where we can actually see the person using our tonality. And, you know, we have voice calls and trying to use texts, not as a means of, you know, entertaining or just wasting your time, nor just trying to express the most important deepest thoughts. I mean, one of my friends said, like, I truly want to express to my partner how much I love her. I don't know how to write it on text. I said, Dude, don't text her. Just go tell her face to face, or even some people actually break up over text. It's just, it just boggles my mind. Unbelievable. So you want to use text as a means of reaching the person. And this is one of the things I learned from one of my friends. Basically. And he said, use text as nothing but a means of arranging a meeting. This is one of my friends who said that actually, and he's a great, you know, Jewish gentleman that I like and I learned a lot from. So he said, like, don't use texts for anything other than arranging meetings. Now, that meeting could be, let's say, a virtual meeting via Skype, or zoom, or, let's say messengers, or it could be a person, ideally, a face to face meeting, but ultimately, save texting, at least from my point of view, mainly for arranging real meetups. However, when it comes to these arrangements, these texts are very efficient. Are you available? Yes, I am, here and here at that time, let's see each other. So for that reason, I'm a huge proponent of not relying on texting as a means of communicating, but using text to arrange virtual meetings via zoom. You're saying like, but I don't want to do businessman I want to talk to my friend. Okay. You can text your friend or you can say you know, they Call your friends. Which one is going to be doing more effective? The answer is obvious video calls. So why don't you use text to arrange a video call instead of just texting to see how you're doing. That'll be a lot more efficient if you actually see him, talk to him and so on. So for that reason, that's how I personally like to use text as a means of arranging either a virtual or a face to face meeting   Pouya LJ  32:21 was amazing. All right. With that we're coming to the end of the show. Thank you as always, Dan.   Dan  32:27 It's my pleasure, buddy. Glad to be here with the one and only Pouyjix   Pouya LJ  32:30 Thank you. And thank you everybody for tuning in. And I hope you enjoyed this episode. I did for sure. And please, leave us comments. Let us know what you want us to talk about. And please, if you have time, then if you enjoyed the show, go rate it commented, let it grow. We would appreciate it and until a later episode. Have a good one.

One of the common issues of the modern world is experiencing emotional and physical burnout due to excess work and stress combined with lack of sufficient sleep and physical activity, many are told to put long hours in their work and study and ignore leisure but the fact of the matter is that we need to treat our bodies as just that, bodies in need of rest and recreation.    In this episode of Beyond the Present Podcast Dan and Poujix discuss the importance of having leisure activities and offer guidelines on how to pick the best means of R&R that are also in alignment with our long term goals and plans. If you want to learn to have fun and feel good about having fun the next day when you wake up then this episode is right up your alley!    Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript:----more----     SUMMARY KEYWORDS leisure activities, leisure, people, life, activities, day, languages, pandemic, work, subtitles, fun, body, run, goals, enjoy, talking, reason, occasionally, burnout, recreation SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast. Let's talk addition as always joined with Daniel Morgan. How's it going, dan?   Dan  00:19 Hey, man, buddy. Glad to be here with one and only Cujo likes to discuss a lot of great topics. So life is great. And fortunately, gradually the borders are getting reopen. Of course, again, I was very disheartened a couple days ago when I heard the news that Bali which was supposed to open its borders to all tourists around the world, on September 11, actually canceled the entire plan. And they mentioned that they will open you know, for tourists only in early 2021. And as you probably know, if Bali was going to open the borders, probably many other countries would follow because that's like a place for tourists. So people don't really have to wear masks winter on volume and let's say islands and that you're having some fun over there. So that was a sign Perhaps the world is ready to get back to normal. But the very fact that the government of Bali somehow did not agree with this and they postpone the plan to 2021 implies that we still have to wait for the vaccine, basically. And I also read an article by Bill Gates that mentioned if 30 to 60% of population in the US get the vaccine, the pandemic is essentially over. So we'll see how it goes. And so there are some good news, generally, although there was one disheartening, basically piece of news that I heard earlier from wh o world health organization that said, even a vaccine might not end the pandemic, but then again, I'm guessing that's more like politics, because as you probably are aware, Donald Trump announced that the US will no longer funds w h o from next year so I'm guessing that they will you should feel like they're left behind that Oh, by the way, you will never have a really from the virus if you want us to just start you know, refund this so maybe we'll find a way. I don't know. Perhaps it seems like you know, dirty politics because I don't think the world Right now needs bad news from especially who to tell them that even a vaccine will not end the pandemic, because that's from my point of view is very counterintuitive, because it is proven proven that it can actually end if a certain, you know, minority population actually do get vaccinated. So overall, things are fine. And we are hoping to hopefully see how things will change. I'm literally preparing all of my plans. Now, we are just waiting for the pandemic to be over. And as soon as you know, hopefully, life gets back to normal in 2021. I'm plan to actually initiate a lot of our projects in Europe. So I focused a lot in China and Russia in the past four years. So most of our focus for the next four to five years will be in the European Union. So France, Germany, Sweden, and a few countries like that. We're going to focus on these countries for a while. So we are preparing our plans, basically so that we can actually initiate a full fledged European campaign from next year. We'll see things things are really fine and we're doing our best to stay afloat.   Pouya LJ  03:00 That's, that's amazing. So you're on the slightly more. We call it optimistic camp regarding this whole pandemic situation   Dan  03:09 I have to be if you're an entrepreneur, as you already had this assertion earlier, if you're an entrepreneur, you have to be an optimist.   Pouya LJ  03:14 Fair enough. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. All right. I hope you're right. We're all really free, by the way.   Dan  03:21 perspective, are you on the pessimistic spectrum?   Pouya LJ  03:23 No, I'm not on the pessimistic spectrum. But I'm a little bit. I'm a little bit on the you know, I'm just I'm just, I'm just, I'm just concerned, mostly that the optimistic scenario might not know Yeah,   03:37 yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah.   Pouya LJ  03:38 So I mean, it will be what it will be and we have to cope with it. Of course. I hope you're right. And I tend to be generally speaking, optimistic, but about this particular one, I'm more concerned and optimistic. Anyways,   Dan  03:52 because the US now as you probably know, it's devastated by the virus and the sheer mismanagement and the idiocy of Trump but how things ended Canada. So have you guys managed to actually contain the virus? Are things better there than it is? I'm sure it is better, of course, but how to which degree actually, is it?   Pouya LJ  04:08 Yeah. No, I think it's great. I mean, at least in the Ontario in Toronto, the things are actually pretty good, relatively speaking. cases are, have been less than 100 and the whole province for the past few days, and it's spiked slightly over 100. Yesterday believe. But generally speaking, it's just running around 100 cases every day in the entire province that Toronto isn't, which is,   Dan  04:35 which is funny that Canada is basically nicknamed as Canada because of all the Chinese who are now in Canada, despite the fact that this hadn't, you know, let's say origin in China. And there are so many there. I think there are a lot more Chinese in Canada in the US, I'm guessing. And despite all that, still, we are seeing, you know, how well the Kenyan government managed this crisis so much better than the US so definitely good for the Kenyan president. And shame on Trump.   Pouya LJ  05:01 Yeah. And well, I mean, and the reopening has been done gradually but very, very successfully. So, Toronto has been pretty open for the past. By open I mean, like with with physical distancing, of course, but you can go out you can go to restaurants and whatnot. And still it no no huge spikes in numbers or whatever. So, yeah, that's, that's, that's good for them. For sure. Yeah. Anyhow, so that's not the topic today, but we had to catch up a little bit. So the topic today is, how to choose your leisure activities. What should your leisure activities be, depending on who you are, when what your goals are, etc. Now, so let's start with let's start with talking about what do you do for leisure on an on a day to day basis? I know I know, you don't have so much time for leisure. But anyhow, you do have some Well,   Dan  05:56 you said something very nice. You don't have so much time for leisure because that's As you probably know, we've already started earlier in front of our programs, you know, and beyond the present podcast. And the fact of the matter is that if you wants to, from my point of view have a very inspiring lifestyle, you probably wants to look at life a little bit differently than a nine to five for work. And then the rest of the time is for me for leisure. You see, unfortunately, we live in a world where it is quite normal to consider your work as something separate from your actual life. So that work is like that toil that you have to do to enjoy the rest of your day. So you go in or let's say you go to work nine to five, five days a week, in order to be able to enjoy the rest of your life, which is the other eight hours or 10 hours per day. And from my point of view, that's probably the worst formula you could ever come up with to live a life and it's definitely a recipe for disaster because if you want to live your life in a way that you live for, basically your leisure time, then you know, Gary Vee says your if you're living for the weekend, then your shit is broken. And he's right. Because if you're living A life where you have to suffer through work and suffer through your studies or your you know, professional routines in order to be late, enjoy the time that you're not working or you're not studying or you're not, you know, perhaps advancing your career, then there's gonna be a problem here. And that's, you know, the willpower. I mean, you can use your willpower to keep pushing and working harder and to use discipline to just say, you know what, that's just work, I got to get it done to feed my family, you could definitely do these things. But the problem is that willpower never lasts. At some point, you will run out of willpower, and then you become depressed like what the hell is wrong with my life? And that we call Of course, This usually happens for most people around the ages of 35 to 40 becomes like a, you know, a midlife crisis, which almost everybody goes through, except for entrepreneurs because their lives have been so much filled with crises. They don't even understand what a midlife crisis looks like as much for your question beforehand. But the fact of the matter is that if you really want to make the most of your life, you need to somehow find a way to eradicate that, you know, clear border between work and life. And then trying to mix them a little bit. So given that I have aspired to this belief, I would like to do the exact same thing. And then I will, I would like to involve my hobbies and my, let's say leisure activities into my work and make it perhaps, you know, capitalize on it and try to actually use it as a means of serving other people. So for that reason, probably the only times where I am not necessarily working or doing things that will perhaps lead to, let's say, my, let's say, professional success is probably maybe like, I don't know, it's very hard to find things, perhaps occasionally, some, let's say going out to nature occasionally to just rest for a while. But for the most part, I really believe that if you find the right recreational activities, they are in a sense part of like your investment portfolio because you're investing in yourself in your body in its well being. I mean, if you drive a car, for example, I think most will put more energy into taking care of their cars by going through the maintenance No changing the tires, the oil and all that stuff than they do actually with their own bodies. So, because of this I see recreation as a means of taking care of that organism, that machine that gets you through the, you know, the hustles and bustles of the daily life. And if you want to make the most of your, basically life and career, you have to you better have a body and a mind that is fresh, ready, and basically up for action. So, for that reason, I value recreation very much I value to you know, being rejuvenate yourself very much. However, how do I do this, there are many ways to go about it. So if you perhaps are tired of work, you can go right now and I don't know start doing online gambling, online poker, I don't know you can hang out with your friends, you can do pot, you can get drunk, you can hang out with your friends and I don't know play FIFA for hours. There are many ways to quote unquote, basically lit up some steam, but most of such activities will in the end leave you empty because you haven't done anything useful. And more importantly, in some of these cases, you actually have harm your body Especially with the case of drug abuse, alcohol, basically, consumption and access and so on. So for that reason, I believe that we can and should probably find a way to incorporate or choose certain leisure activities that are in alignment with our main goals and directions in life. So for example, if your goal in life is to be a successful business owner, perhaps you might choose social activities that allow you to network and meet other people. So instead of perhaps spending your time playing Dota at home, and being able to network with the little org that is playing on the other side, perhaps you should, I don't know decide to go to a book club or to a test seminar or some other social activities like a fundraiser or a charity organization or a charity event in order to meet people and expand your network. So here let's say you're on a let's say, you're now in a charity event, I don't know for to help the perhaps the those who are now in orphan orphanages basically right. So in this case, you are feeling good, you're socializing, you're having a good time you're chatting, you're alive. thing with kids, with people with parents. But at the same time, you're actually networking and meeting new people. So even though you are recreating in the background, you're actually expanding your network, which is an essential element for all entrepreneurs to know more people and be known by more people who like them and whom basically are liked by you. So because of this, the best one is a clear example. For me personally, as you probably know, I'm a polyglot. And I have been told that I speak a crazy amount of basically languages. And the answer is very simple because for me, language learning, which is nothing more than a pure passion, and basically, leisure activity is now a regular part of my daily life where I tend to, you know, go on, sometimes occasionally practice up to three, four languages per day, and then switch to either the next day. So by doing these things, even though I'm having fun, and I'm resting, I'm not working, I'm not doing business. I'm not trying to plan the next year or start, you know, talking things with my team. I'm simply sitting chilling and you know, perhaps doing some, you know, drills and Japanese or let's say I don't know in Hungarian, and I'm practicing these things just for fun. But that in a sense will then is in alignment, my ultimate goal, which is international business, and international education of languages for, you know, students from all over the world. So I'm having fun, but at the same time, I'm actually doing things that will be good for my career. So the same thing could be done for anybody. I mean, doesn't matter what you do, maybe you are an artist, maybe you are, perhaps more like a technical type. So perhaps if you are a computer programmer, maybe you want to try some digital activities online, but if you're not in the IT sector, perhaps playing Dota as your hobby will not be the best idea, right? So for that reason, I'm a fan of choosing leisure activities that are in alignment with your ultimate goals and values in life. That way, you will have fun and you also slowly but surely get closer to your goals because we need recreation. We can't just toilet the office from morning to night for 10 days and not you know see anything going go wrong because in that case, we will burn out and that will occur ironically Much worse because in the long term, in the long run in the long term, we will lose a lot more by demanding too much from our time and body. And we will simply stress burnout. And boom, it's kind of like the story of that, basically turtles and the hair. So that fast air just starts running and then gets tired of sleeping. Well, this little guy who's going slowly wins the race. It's kind of like that. So those who really want to go, I'd like to say, I don't want fun. I don't want leisure. Just work, work, work, work work. Bill Gates said that he never took a single day off and his 30s and I'm now 27 I want to kill myself. I'm 30. I don't know. So this is like the story, right? So yeah, you could try to do that. But then you will miss out on the long term, because you will then experience burnout. And then after a while, you get depressed and you wonder like, what's the point of it all? I mean, so what's the point of running your own business anyways? I need a gun. I better get a gun and then boom, something happens right. So because of this, I believe that you should think long term and to think long term means you should take care. You should look at yourself as a human being Not a robot, not a machine, but a human being who needs sufficient rest, sufficient physical activities you need especially we are social creatures, we need a lot of socializing, to feel happy and well. So going out with friends, trying to you know, have a you know, picnic outside or going for a barbecue with your basically colleagues, these type of social activities, especially when they are, you know, with people that you like, will substantially improve your overall well being. So I believe it is very important to put time aside for leisure and for hobbies. Again, that's not a common suggestion these days, because now we are in an extreme culture of work, work work all the time. But I think that's perhaps not the best approach to go about it.   Pouya LJ  14:42 Well, yeah, I mean, I couldn't, couldn't agree more, especially when you were talking about the burnout part. And you know, in the long run, you're absolutely right. There's no way in the long run with that kind of mentality and you know, habit. You'll get the most efficient output from yourself. It's impossible. And I agree with you and that's why I also practice the same thing. I, as much as I like, what I do, generally speaking, I still need some, you know, even even for the sake of stopping repetition, I have to just do something else even if I love what I'm doing, even if you if I, I love pizza, okay, no secret. If I eat pizza every single day, I'm gonna hating pizza. Right? So even even for the sake of change, I have to I have to do something else. Even if I love what I do, which I do,   Dan  15:35 for you should probably run a franchisee of Domino's Pizza.   15:40 That's a great idea for your future. I mean, that that could be on the agenda. Who knows? Right?   Pouya LJ  15:47 No, but but I taught so back to what we were talking about. Yeah, I completely agree and to give some extra examples for myself. I love reading and I adopt that as a leisure time activity. Whilst it helps me learn something, and he can help me Yeah, move forward in the world, which is, which is which is definitely a useful leisure activity in my favorite most   Dan  16:09 favorite leisure activity all is like reading books while eating pizza. That's like the ultimate   Pouya LJ  16:16 must be has to me. Alright, okay, so all right, that was a that was a good, good, good introduction to the whole thing. I mean, it was more of an introduction, but who's counting? Anyways? So, yes, leisure activities. We gave some examples we talked about we talked about how they can be catered and and adjusted towards our goals. While we're enjoying them while we're experiencing some change from day to day life. Now, I know you you you go to the gym, do you count that as a leisure activity?   Dan  16:51 Well, again, these are all typically leisure activities. I told you, I'm not somebody who's just working in the office all the time. People sometimes think about that. And then that like Yeah, Daniel is always working or studying. That's not true. I basically, that's like, for me personally, you know, exercising on a regular basis is just a necessity. So, I basically when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is I grab my gears and I start running, you know, near my house, I don't go to the gym, you know, first morning because the body's not ready for that. So I basically when I wake up, the first thing I do is I grab my running shoes, and I go for a job for about 10 to 20 minutes. And then after the shower, I will, you know, begin the whole day everything, let's say working on social media, answering my emails, messages, all that stuff. So for me that's like the starters kind of like people's, you know, for people who are lazy, they use coffee. For me my coffee is running in the morning because it's not as easy as coffee, but it's definitely healthier and far more effective. And of course, I usually go to the gym somewhere after working hours. So usually, after I finished my basically work, basically my company, usually I tend to go to the gym, about let's say, three or four times Depending on the local time, of course and the country as well as how far because in some countries, for example, the the gym is very close to my house, so I'm just not so I have to adjust that as well by the time but around three or four, maximum five. Usually, I even hit the gym to recharge my batteries for the rest of the day, which oftentimes involves seminars, workshops, or simply group gatherings. So I want to have a lot of energy throughout the day. So I basically recharge the batteries once after I wake up with a jog. And then after about 567 hours of work, I go to the gym to recharge again, the batteries, if you will to have full peak energy throughout the entire day. And I do not consider that as work because it's definitely not work. And I do not simply work. I don't answer phone calls. I don't answer emails. I don't accept meetings or any type of work during that time. And I never cancel it for any amount of work project doesn't matter if it's going to be a $2 million project. If it's going to be I don't know for example, a session with one of my students it doesn't really matter. Now my sports as well as my fitness will never be at the mercy of any work. So I will cancel my meetings or my sessions, but I will not cancel my you know, training sessions. And that's not because of leisure because it is fun. I mean, it's definitely leisure because I often do it with like very positive energetic music in different languages. And, but what I really do is it's it's going to allow me and enables me to work hard throughout the day. So even though it is leisure, technically, it actually contributes much more to my career than probably even working does because just imagine you're talking to someone in business and in sales. And you guys like Hi, my name is Tommy and I'm super freakin tired. Would you please, please man up time, you're having a good day, sir. But in reality, you're energetic. If you're charged, if you're you know, full of energy, you will do a much better job. So for me that's both a leisure activity as well as investment in my career because it allows the body to run well. As you mentioned yourself. I'm a huge fan of reading books, especially audiobooks because I'm a multitasker, I tend to commute a lot, especially I fly a lot because of my work. So as you probably know, flying is a very time consuming activity, you have to be at the airport three hours before the flight, of course the most, because I tend to be a little bit like later than that, but, and then there's perhaps gonna be some delays occasionally, and then you arrive there and there's gonna be a jet lag. So any flight, you know, especially if it's not, if it's intercontinental, like if it's between different continents, so you probably have to put aside 12 hours to 15 hours easily. And if it's like in the same continent, so it's gonna, you know, take about four or five, seven, sometimes eight hours of your time. So that's a lot of time that'd be wasted, which I use for listening to audiobooks, I can easily finish one audio book, which is on average, seven hours long in one flight. So it's pretty good for me personally, and even though it's leisure, I'm not working, it actually contributes to people to think better. And if you think better can like when you have more energy, you will make better decisions and of course, you will get better results. And I generally spend a lot of my time focused on learning Because my one of my biggest passions in life is learning different languages. So I use Netflix, but not the way most people do actually supposable. Netflix is entertainment. For me Netflix is nothing more than going to language school, because as you probably know, one of the best ways to learn a foreign language is through basically, movies. And Netflix gives me the ability to watch whichever movie or show I want, especially if it's like Netflix original, in a variety of up to 30 languages, like I can decide to watch it in Swedish or I can watch it in German, I can watch it. I don't know Italian and Chinese, Japanese and with the subtitles, because that's very important personally, because I think the importance of learning with subtitles is just you probably know more about this than I do. So Netflix, you know, the chance to watch whatever movie I want in whatever language I want with this subtitle in that language, which is probably the best way to accelerate your learning process, especially after the you know, you enter the b1 or pre intermediate level basically. So for me, even though that's technically I'm technically watching a movie, and right naturally these things I'm watching At the latest show called bio hacks which is like a German show on Netflix and I'm watching it you know with with German and German subtitles and it's just such a perfect you know, German classroom like I get all the words I listed my item to my flashcards. So yes, watching movie is a, you know, typical and very stereotypical leisure activity. But for me that's like going to a classroom. It is fun. Although it's not let's be honest, not always fun when you have to pause every 15 seconds to look at the word go back to Google Translate said to work Oh, Miss misspelling, boom, boom, come back. It isn't always fun. I do agree. But the whole experience is fun. So maybe watching a TV or HBO they only offer basically these programs in English. And since I only watch movies in four languages and are English, I cannot use them but Netflix give you the chance to you know, basically watch movies in a variety of languages. So that's another one that I use a lot. Again, you're saying like then your messages your activity, yes, but actually goes along with you know, one of the main activities of modern enterprises which is actually the promoting education of foreign languages all over the world. So this itself is helping my career, but at the same time, it's leisure. It's fun, and it's pretty easy. So for that reason, I'm a huge fan of picking such activities that while leisure in nature actually contribute to your main mission in life.   Pouya LJ  23:16 Yeah, exactly. So you answered one aspect of so the reason I asked this question about your working out well, I have two specific reasons one of them you basically answered and that was the investment part essentially. Now the second part I specifically mentioned working out because that's, that's a problem for me. What I mean by that is that I cannot possibly except that as a year because I don't I don't enjoy it by any means. And I know   Dan  23:41 I know about genetics background lifestyles. Exactly. introvert extrovert you're definitely right. For a lot of people. I think it's just God dammit, I have to sweat. Exactly.   Pouya LJ  23:53 So so for that very reason. I was thinking okay, maybe some other people that have the same attitude towards I don't know, like Learning or reading a book or whatever? Do you have any specific so is there is it? Is it something? Is it some sort of a, like a mindset you can get into and then it becomes a leisure, or you just have to find your own leisure that is also, let's be   Dan  24:11 honest, man, we're talking about leisure here, right? So, if your goal is to truly get a sense of, you know, refreshment, then you should probably choose activities that suit your temperament, biology, your values in life. So even though I like for example, intense exercise, for example, let's say a fitness, let's say boxing, jogging, maybe somebody else could get the same benefit through meditation, or through a fast, you know, walk basically in the park. So it all depends on yourself. However, as I've mentioned, repeatedly, you know, over and over again, I believe that half of your happiness is your biology. Now, the way you manage it depends on your temperament depends on your biology, your genetics, your background, your interests. So I don't think that everybody needs to do what I do. I don't think everybody needs to exercise twice per day, every day, 365 days a week, even when he or she is Sick. Unfortunately, I have been accused of that occasionally by my doctors, which is an improvement, but it's just you know, just the habits. But the point is this, you don't have to do that. But you can create other healthy routines for your body where it is to get enough sleep, for example, or you can begin I know a friend of mine who begins today via meditation. And it's not a girl, I'm talking to a guy here right. So he begins today by meditation, by deep breathing exercises. So, it all depends on what really, you know, makes you tick. However, as we have mentioned, many times you cannot promote one Have you fully eliminate physical activities from your basically routine and feel refreshed and energized. So whether it is just for a walk, you can just go for a walk in the park near your house, whether it is to meet your friends and don't go hiking or whether it is I don't know, there are a variety of activities, but I think that everybody should include some sort of physical activity in a leisure activity because that is the key for energy and happiness. I mean nothing saps energy out of your More than getting fat, or more than getting weak. So because you need, especially if you're an entrepreneur, you need a lot of physical energy, you have to be at your prime because you have to be with people. And people generally are not influenced by those who are weak or who are negative or who are low energy, it's just not going to work. So you need to work on that. So it depends on yourself, I don't think that everybody should do that. I don't think most people do that actually at all. And some who might even try this could find it to be very unhealthy for them, because maybe their body's not ready because I've been, you know, exercising like this for almost more than 15 years now, non stop. So maybe your body is not used to that kind of, you know, fresher physically. So for that reason, you can find something similar, though that was a great example of dancing is a great example. walking, jogging, simply traveling as a tourist and just walking around and looking at the places you enjoy it and you're Of course getting physically active as well. So there are many ways to do that. But ultimately, you are the judge and you should decide which one fits your character and your values.   Pouya LJ  27:00 No, I 100% agree like the physical activity is you can't just ignore it and that affects everything. I completely agree. It was just the point was I was trying to make was it's really difficult for me to counter especially especially   Dan  27:15 Yeah, yeah,   Pouya LJ  27:16 that's actually intense exercise. Yeah, like   Dan  27:21 totally normal by there's zero like nothing wrong with you at all. And that I think is an opinion shared by probably more than half the you know, the world population because it's just the way it is. And like, I mean, like not everybody is necessarily as intense or hyperactive as let's say Daniel, right? Sure. Reality speaking even you I'm pretty sure he can enjoy a nice walk when there's a good when there's a nice breeze and you're enjoying a red cup of coffee. Everybody can enjoy For example, some sort of activity.   Pouya LJ  27:47 Yeah, hundred percent biking. What have you Yeah, there's definitely something you can you can grab on doing. There's no doubt, no doubt. Anyways, so I just wanted to bring that up. Now we're coming to the end of the show. Is there anything you want? We left out that you want to talk about or you want to summarize, what have you, for sure.   Dan  28:04 Well, first of all, what a great topic you chosen projects for this session was pretty good. And as we mentioned earlier today, we talked about using your leisure activities in a way that make your life better and not worse. As I mentioned earlier, we all need leisure. Because some of us, unfortunately, tend to be extremist in our approach, especially among entrepreneurs, in that we want to just, you know, keep putting in if you put in the hours and and just putting long, hard hours, and we think that's good. But unfortunately, that's a very myopic approach towards making clients because even though working more and nonstop will get you ahead of your competition, and let's say in a couple of weeks or months, in the long term, you'll be like that fast day or just ran so fast, got tired, took a nap and lost the race to the turquoise. So you want to think long term and to think long term use you have to look at yourself as a human being, not a machine, not a robot but a human being with a biologic. logical being as well as a social beam, which means you have to take care of both your biological as well as your social needs, otherwise you will experience a variety of psychological and physical ailments. So for that reason, we said you need to choose your leisure activities, you have to pay attention to them. And then we discussed a variety of, you know, ways to make sure that your leisure activities are productive, we said that you could just you know, waste your time, I don't know, I play fortnight, you know, let's say from day to night, and you could just spend your time doing weird stuff. And we also mentioned some of the common ways of letting off some steam which I disapprove of, I don't getting super drunk or doing pot or whatever it is, which are unfortunately quite common among young generation these days. But these are not going to help you at all. However, if you choose leisure activities that will be in alignment with your main goals in life and will somehow help you push you towards you know, a better direction. Those are the best types of leisure activities because they will then allow you to become a better person, which is why for me for myself, Have you Travelling is one of the best leisure activities out there because not only it's fun, it also is very educational and makes you a better person. So you can ask yourself, what are some of the best activities leisure because I can do that are in align with my values and goals that can make me a better person, and then do those things more. And we also mentioned that you should never ignore the importance of adding some physical elements to your basically leisure activities because we are also biological, we need to use our bodies as much as possible. So combining those things and making our leisure activities as intellectually beneficial as possible, as physical as possible and as social as possible, will then allow us to have a life filled with happiness and on the way to success.   Pouya LJ  30:42 Oh, that's the that was great, like, perfect summary of what we talked about and love that. Thank you again, Dan, for joining us today. Always a pleasure being with you. Appreciate it. And thank you everybody for joining us and listening to us. Please if you enjoy the podcast go and rate and Put comments if you would like, and let us know what you want to what you want us to talk about next. And and by the way, oh, yeah, apparently   Dan  31:07 apparently it printed before you before we end the show. Apparently our listeners should be aware that now we have the scripts of all of our show. I forgot about that. Yes.   Pouya LJ  31:18 So yeah, from from the last few episodes, I don't remember how many the episode The the the episodes are being transcribed. And the and   Dan  31:27 they're not being transcribed by you know, people that are sitting, you know, painstakingly writing them down. Yes, dude. The AI is here. We are using AI to make the transcripts. Yeah, we lose a lot of jobs in the future. It's not perfect supports going back to making all of these things go back to coal mining, we don't have any problem. But the fact of the matter is, AI is coming and it's coming to our show as well. And all those transcripts now are being made by AI Of course, the mastermind He's always behind it was Pouyjix, who was the you know, the guy who founded about this and let me know. And I could actually use this myself in creating the subtitles for my videos. So I want to first thank you so much for just for your suggestion that was really helpful. I literally use this last night for one of my videos, and it was very useful. So I want to thank you and of course, a great addition to our show.   Pouya LJ  32:19 Yeah, it's a great, great addition, a lot of people might want to use it. And we're glad to provide that. It might not be perfect. So you might see some mistakes often, not often, but rarely, which makes sense. But hopefully, gradually, we'll recognize our voices better and we will become better. But until then you can at least enjoy what we have right now. And I hope you do. All right. Thank you for reminding me that I totally forgot about that. Awesome.   32:47 That was very good.   Pouya LJ  32:48 All right. Cheers. Thank you, everybody. Have a good one.

Working hard has been known as the main pillar of success but is working hard truly all you need to be successful? A quick glance at professions that demand intense effort and long hours such as construction workers and busboys shows that there is no direct relationship between hard work and success. In other words almost all successful people are hardworking but not all hardworking individuals are successful.    In this solo edition of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel will shed light on the other equally as important pillar of smart work that allows you to do better things, do them in a better way, and do them with better people! If you want to work both hard and smart in whatever you do to obtain the best results and improve them over time then this program is for you!    Daniel's Social:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danmolgan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Danmolgan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-molgan-41812352/   Pouya's Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pouyalj/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/pouyalj LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pouyalajevardi/   Episode Transcript: ----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS work, customer, construction worker, hard, hours, day, income, increase, money, people, smart, bad apples, life, arrive, simply, business, success, thinking, higher, job SPEAKERS Dan   Dan  00:14 Hello, and welcome to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast, the solo edition. My name is Daniel Molgan. And welcome to this show where we're going to talk about the paradigm of smart work versus hard work. You see, guys, unfortunately, a lot of the times when we talk about success, people are asking me So Dan, I want to be successful. So the only way of course is to work harder. And guess what, I completely agree. I believe that hard work is the essence of success in all areas of life and anybody you look around who are truly achieved and accomplished individuals, you kind of realize that they are real hard workers. But here's the truth are all people who are successful, hard working, I mean, does being hard working itself lead to success or those who aren't are successful, they tend to be hard because that's very, you know, different. For example, think about construction workers think about busboys, think about, I don't know, those who tend to work day and night, basically very little. And they're always working, let's say farmers or working on the field, let's say I know, as I mentioned earlier, like construction workers, so these individuals are hardworking, but they're not rich. So this clearly shows that a relationship between working hard and acquiring major success in life, while that's very, very important, but there's no direct relationship here. Because if we thought that big, you know, somehow being hard working makes you successful, then perhaps the only option you would have is to simply work harder at whatever you did. But the fact of the matter is that that is not the way to acquire you know, major wealth or success. So today we're gonna talk about the other elements of basically success which are not necessarily just about working hard, but rather It's about creating a lifestyle where you somehow tend to get higher and higher on the scale of income as well as profitability. While Of course, from any hard work individual. You see, whenever it comes to any area of life, whether it is I don't know, learning a new language, whether it is to lose weight and gain muscle, whether it is to start your own business, ultimately, there is always going to be an element of what we call sweat equity. That is you have to work hard at it. And that is always there. But the question is this, you can work hard at a task that is inferior, or you can work hard a task that is superior. And it's quite obvious that once you work hard at a superior task, this will yield higher results. So let me give an example here. Let's say you're a construction worker, and you work very hard to work 12 hours per day, at the end of the day, you're going to get your minimum wage, which is about let's say 15 bucks an hour, right? So after having worked all day long and have only slept, let's say I don't know, six hours. So you have have spent a tremendous amount of time working almost 18 hours. I mean, like, that's a lot, right? And at the end of the day, what you end up with is not a lot of money, right? However, what if you know you were a, let's say, Elan Musk, he also sometimes puts very long hours at work. But despite the fact that he might spend sometimes what I don't know 16 hours a day working 18 hours per day working, does that mean that he necessarily makes this amount of money as somebody who was a construction worker? Of course not? And the answer is because Ilan musk works on higher value tasks that will then allow him to yield better results. So in whatever you do, you should ask yourself, first of all, what is exactly my major, basically, path in life? What is exactly my major goal in life? What am I trying to accomplish and what is my main direction? Once you know that you can ask yourself All right, I have this skill. I have this ability. I know what to do with this and that and I wants to build a lifestyle surrounding, basically success in this regard. And then he asked yourself, so how can I increase the value of what I do? You see, working hard is very important, no doubt about it. But of course, if you want to work hard all the time, at some point, you're going to face with some resistance, you're gonna be faced with some difficult because there's only so much time that you can have per day, there's only so much energy that can actually put into your work. And because of all of these things, you generally find it very hard to sustain that level of, you know, very hard work for many years. Because if you do so, then you will what perhaps we'll face with other issues like health problems, like family issues, relationship problems, because at some point, you just simply don't have enough time to actually dedicate to your basically, you know, career or your studies or preparations or all of these things. So, because of this, as you somehow you know, get older and as you go up through the basically food chain You want to focus on not only working harder, but working smarter. Now what is exactly working smart. Working smart can be defined as doing things more efficiently, or working on things of higher values. So for example, let's say you wants to arrive to your destination that is a few, let's say 100 miles away, you have a few options. You can go on foot, you can use a bicycle, you can use a motorbike, you can use a car, or you can use a helicopter. Now all of these options are going to allow you to arrive at your destination, whether you move from this place or that place on foot or on a helicopter, you will arrive there. The question is how fast and at what cost? So perhaps if you want to go on foot, you don't need anything. You don't need any instrument any equipments just you know, start walking, and maybe after a few hours, you arrive there. But if you want to fly there on a helicopter now you need to actually invest in it in advance a helicopter and a pilot's To try to arrive there on time. So this is the paradigm of smart work, which is cost and benefit analysis of what you want to get done in your life, and then trying to create new ways of adding value to your time so that the same amount of hours and days and months and years do you put into a certain you know, activity will then be spent on another activity in order to give you the chance to actually work harder and get better results. So because of this, I want to now start off with challenging the listener with one simple question. From your point of view. What do you think is the best approach and the most important thing to do when it comes to improving the value of your time? Now there are very, you know, various options because the simplest way to increase your income, for example, is to work more hours at whatever job you're currently doing. That's okay. But what are the other ways by which you could probably increase your income while having the same amount of workload? The first option would be to increase whatever amount you charge, you know, per hour, that's one option. Option two is perhaps trying to create a new business, and then having other people work for you. So you free up the time so that there are more people working now this way, you will be spending the exact same amount of time at the office. But since it involves the work of many other employees, you will then have a chance to actually increase the overall profitability. The last one, of course, is to dramatically change, you know, the entire field that you work in and start doing new things and new activism might actually be of higher value. But whatever you do, what truly matters here is how can you start thinking in terms of working smart, and then hopefully, that'll allow you to actually focus your attention on you know, more valuable activities and actually do for yourself in order to you know, gain the most results. So having said that, now let's think of your life. As of now, you might say, well, then you're right. I totally want to just start working smart because I do not want to work hard. Well Now think about three types of individuals in the modern world, we have the one time who is extremely hardworking. We have one type who is extremely, you know, focused on, you know, working smart, but they just don't really want to put in the work. So they are a little bit lazy, perhaps or they have this, you know, dream of those listeners call it the Tim Ferriss style of four hour work, basically, what kind of person and then you have somebody who's going to work hard and smart, so who in the end is going to smoke all of them? I think the answer is obvious, right? So, because of this, I believe that an ideal approach is combining the two because unfortunately, those who tend to you know, look for shortcuts and easy ways of earning, you know, an income. Unfortunately, in most cases do not achieve that. In most cases, they actually find themselves stuck in situations where they simply don't have, you know, an opportunity to fully fathom what they want nor achieve big goals because you know, if you are, you know, working in a marketplace, you're obviously competing with other people in it. And if you want to focus on just working smart, and not trying to put in the effort, then what happens here is you simply fall behind those who do especially if they are also smart workers, right? So because of this right now, I want to ask you a question, ask yourself how much of my time that I put into my work, I put in terms of trying to increase the value of my basically income and my work? Because once you increase your value in the marketplace, of course, you can earn higher income? Secondly, am I really willing to work hard, because unfortunately, laziness is one of those issues that we all have to struggle with on a regular basis, because we want to somehow get the job done, but Well, I mean, there's just the SPN on TV and I want to watch the match and I kind of want to also, you know, hang out with my friends. So I mean, life is short man. So I believe in you know, creating and striking a balance between Working hard and working smart in order to achieve, you know, long term, basically professional goals in your career. So if you really want to make the most of your career, then you have no choice but to combine the two. That is smart work and hard work. So let's talk about both Actually, let's talk about implementing both strategies in your career from today in order to actually make the most of them. So ask yourself, how many hours per day, not per week, but per day understands. Those who are successful did not think of themselves as working, you know, per week. In our society, those who judge their work in terms of basically, minutes and hours are oftentimes the highest paid and the most accessible. And ironically, the least successful ones. Oftentimes they judge themselves in terms of year like how much do I make per year. So just imagine like, for example, a very highly successful surgeon thinks about how they shouldn't how much he makes per hour while Unfortunately, let's say a truck driver might think of how much he makes per year. So you want to first change your time perspective, focus on the minutes and hours instead of months and years. That's number one. And number two, ask yourself, How am I willing to increase, you know, both the amount of time that I work more minutes and hours per day, as well as the quality of those hours, because that's really important. So right now, whatever job you have, you can just simply calculate your hourly rate just right now take your annual income divided by basically 12 to have your monthly income, and then literally count the number of hours you work per week. So for example, if you have a job and an office and you know you do that nine to five thing, five days a week, you can actually you know, calculate like, okay, so I worked for example, eight hours per day, and I work five days a week, so that's gonna be about 40 hours a week. So whatever income you got, you know, two by 40 and boom, you get your basically hourly rate. So that of course gives you a great chance to, you know, figure out, for example, how you can go around it, because let's say if you work for 40 hours a week, then it can actually even go further. So 40 hours a week is going to be 40 times four is going to be like almost 160 hours a month, and then divided by 60 even can get your let's say, you know, hourly or even minutes by minutes rate. And this will then allow you to know exactly how much you're worth. And ask yourself, alright, I make exactly this amount of money every minute, okay? Whatever it is, whether you work in McDonald's, whether you run your own business, whether you I don't know, are a creative type, you know, you're you know, minute by minute rate, and then you ask yourself, alright, so this is my minute by minute rate. Now, how can I increase that there are a variety of ways one, increase the type of work that you do, perhaps we have to move out of McDonald's and maybe start your own for example, restaurant, right? Or perhaps you have to work with better clients. One of the things I really like about working international businesses that it gives me access to a global market, because the same services offered in different countries have very different values. So for example, one service one consultancy service offered, let's say, and I don't know, let's say in Europe could cost you let's say, I don't know, for example, 100 euros per hour, while the same service could cost basically somebody else $2,000 an hour or less if you move to Dubai, right. So by literally let's just moving from, for example, Berlin, to Dubai, you can offer the exact same service and instead of being paid 100 euros an hour you are now listen, pay $2,000 an hour. That's a great move, right? So this is one of the you know, paradigms of smart thinking, How can I offer my service in the best possible location? Or this maybe it's also product depends on the situation, right? Because not all products are sold equal in different markets. And then you ask yourself, How can I find a better way to you know, serve better customers. Secondly, increase the quality of your current customers right now. So you might be dealing with a lot of, you know, bad apples, here's my advice, and it's always been the same, get rid of the bad apples as soon as possible before they spoil the whole pot. You see, there's nothing worse for your success and happiness than to work with people that you don't like. Now, obviously, I mean, we all want to be below you know, in a perfect world, you can always, you know, see a lot of great people great customers are coming, you know, in and out, and you're just so happy. But the fact of the matter is that ironically, a very small percentage of all of your clients and customers at a time will inevitably be those will be called bad apples. And also remember this customer that used to be a good customer could become a bad customer over time, by the changes in circumstances his or her lifestyle or situation in the economy. So just because a customer was the best customer does not mean that he or she will always be the best customer. And in most cases, the opposite also applies. So ask yourself right now, how much stress? How much difficulty Am I experiencing by having these bad customers? If you're working with somebody else, ask yourself in my office, which people are causing me the highest amount of stress could be your colleague, could be your boss could be I don't know, the Vice President. And you ask yourself, Is there any way I could change and not deal with these guys in my work, maybe we should change our department, maybe you should even change your job and get a job elsewhere. But the best thing you can do to increase your productivity is to actually stop working with people that drain your mental energy. And that makes you unhappy. Because the surest way to fail is to work with or for the people that you don't like. So, right now, ask yourself, whether you are working as a secretary and you know in a small company, whether you're working as a You know a doctor privately, whether you're running your own business, whether you are working I don't know as a waiter Do you really enjoy the kind of clients you're dealing with on a regular basis if you wanted to get you know somehow these bad apples if you will out of your life could you get started right away and do so because once you focus your attention on removing these bad apples, initially you will have less income it's true. For example, bad apple customer will make you very you know, feel very upset. But at the end of the day, whether you're a dentist I mean he or she comes to your clinic gets the teeth done and goes now you will be upset and probably even depressed after a while but you get the you know, get your money if the operation you know, the teeth are fixed and I got my money. So, you're saying Dan, okay, so I should tell my let's say, you know, customer from hell who happen to have bad teeth to go home and not come back. And that way I'm going to lose money today as true When you send your bad customers home, you're going to lose money for that day. But what this does is it creates a vacuum free time, and a drive to replace the lost income. You see nature's like this, when there's a vacuum created, this vacuum must be filled. So once you, you know, you know, by yourself and intentionally get rid of a bad customer, you create a vacuum, and this vacuum must be filled. Guess what will fill that, you know, vacuum, a better customer in most cases. So, the same thing applies if you have a job, you're saying, well, then I really feel stress in my workplace. I feel like that my colleagues are abusive, and my boss never understands me. I even told him yesterday that I had a problem with my family and I needed to have a day off and he said I don't care go back to work. So you're saying but then I need the money. I gotta make the mortgage payment. I gotta I gotta pay no. feed my family and I'm telling Right now to quit your job and find a better job, you're saying, but that doesn't make any sense because I have to, you know, feed my family, I'm not really sure about this. So you will end up putting up with the BS of your boss or your staff members, your colleagues trying to make the ends meet, but guess what happens, you will not be engaged at work, you will not be very happy, and your income will not increase. So you will keep accumulating those negative emotions inside. At some point, boom, it bursts. And you say, Oh, I quit. But by then it's too late. Because you have been working to that end job. It didn't like for three, four or 567 years. You did not work on improving your skills. Because whenever you came home, you were so depressed, just had to just you know, chill to get rid of all the stress. So you don't have the time to work on yours to improve yourself your abilities, learn new skills, and at the same time you had no energy or motivation to look for better opportunities. So years have gone by, you have lost your skills or at least you know, remain to the same level. And now have lost the motivation to even look for better opportunities and boom, all of a sudden you say I had it. Or worse yet, your boss says, You're fired. And boom, it's like, what the hell am I going to do? The problem is you are not prepared for it, you are not prepared for, you know, making these changes to make your work smarter to improve the quality of your work, because in the long term, doing the kind of work that you really enjoy, with the kind of people that you like to associate with, will lead to far better results than putting up with the bad clients, the bad colleagues, the bad bosses that somehow give you money in the present, but will then ruin your future and your growth perspective. So because of this, I want you guys to start thinking long term in your careers from now. Whether you are a you know, simple nurse, whether you are I don't know as I mentioned, it doesn't matter what your career is, you should think long term. Do I enjoy working at this hospital do I enjoy being in this Place do I enjoy the kind of people I serve? How can I improve the quality and serve better people? These are the kind of questions you have to ask yourself on a regular basis. And this will allow you to change the way you think, and hopefully be able to change the paradigm of your work that will then allow you to work smarter, those who work smart think long term, so they invest some money and effort at the beginning. so evident, they're actually losing a lot, right. But in the long term, they would be making a lot more than those who simply want to just get through the day and just get a paycheck. That is why it's very important, crucial to start thinking long term, planning ahead and beginning to combine smart work with hard work. With that being said, I will never underestimate the importance of working hard. That's quite important. And if I were to give one advice to anyone who wants to make their lives better, I'd say work harder first, but working hard first is just first There's a second element and that's called working smart. So both are important. And by doing the work on both simultaneously, it's kind of like the wheels can you like drive a car with only one wheel or like, I don't know, a bicycle, you need at least two wheels to get any vehicle running, right? So in this situation, you want to focus on that you want to focus on building the ability to somehow work smarter. That takes effort that takes time, but it is completely possible. Alright guys, that's all the time we have for I hope that this little short talk gave you the motivation to combine smart work with hard work and try your very best to hopefully make the most of your experiences in your workplace. Whether it is you working as an employee or running your own business. It's all the time we have for any questions, feel free to contact me on the social media anywhere you can find me at Dan Mullen and of course you can contact basically the person to show Pouya LJ as well, in case you wanted to discuss things regarding the topics of the show or any other ideas. And of course, I'd like to see you guys in person if you have the chance or simply send me a message and I'll be glad to answer all of your questions. Have a great one guys and take care

Your conscious mind is capable of processing no more than seven bits of information at a time but your subconscious mind knows no such boundaries  as it is receiving input 24/7 from all of your senses and as thus is influencing you in the process. That is where subliminal learning and influence comes into play as a tool to educate, influence, or even manipulate.    In this episode of Beyond the Present Podcast Dan and Poujix discuss how we could come to learn languages, master musical tones, discern color patterns, develop a sense of connection or familiarity with a product, or even downright be indoctrinated through subliminal influence.    You subconscious mind is learning and altering your mood and behavior all the time without stop, this episode will remind you of the importance of preparing yourself for the right types of subliminal learning and influence while avoiding the wrong ones.      Episode Transcript:----more----   SUMMARY KEYWORDS learning, subliminal, influence, background, language, people, consciously, form, coca cola, learn, matter, listen, commercials, trump, advertisement, impact, pay, billboards, behavior, audio SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of BTP podcast. Let's talk edition. As always, I'm joined with Dan How's it going?   Dan  00:18 What am I man buddy? How are you? Good seeing you. It's so glad to be I'm really so happy to be here right now and just to see your face. You've gone full nerd mode right now I love the background like literally you are now a total real physicist 100%. And I love you know, the background is pretty cool. So just can't wait to get started to share ideas with our great listeners.   Pouya LJ  00:39 Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, likewise, thank you first of all for the compliment. Yeah, so it's been going on for a while.   Dan  00:46 So one good question, by the way, Blue Jays. So now you've basically officially graduated, right?   Pouya LJ  00:51 Yeah, well, one more semester but yes.   Dan  00:53 Oh, almost there, buddy. Don't push, keep pushing. Otherwise, outward actions can be very, very disappointing people   Pouya LJ  01:01 Yeah, that's true. All right. Okay, so today's episode is about one of one of one of our audiences ask the question on Instagram from you and that was so as a response to our previous episode, which was about influence of audio on our lives day to day. He his question was the effect of subliminal learning and generally speaking effects on us. So for example, it can be used, as you mentioned in your response by Tony Robbins and your self education, but it's also used perhaps a little less known in advertisement often. Now, we want to address this subliminal learning. First of all, can you define what it is?   Dan  01:48 You see subliminal learning or any type of influence a similar nature is pretty much about you trying to influence people at a subconscious level and indirectly rather than directly and consciously. And ironically, it's a slower form of learning, because you're not actively engaged with that process. And also, it takes a long time to change someone's behavior if you want to use that as a form of influence. But ultimately, as you probably know, the subconscious mind is awake 24 seven, and it is far more powerful than the conscious mind ever will. And because of this, simple learning actually has been used throughout basically, you know, not only the modern world, but even in the past, to instruct people and to change their behaviors. And of course, it's a great tool for education. But as you already pointed out, it also could be used to alter people's behavior or preferences, the advertising and commercials.   Pouya LJ  02:40 Okay, so let's let's branch out into these two, kind of separate segments. And first, let's start with education. So how can one use it for their students or for themselves to educate themselves better?   Dan  02:52 Well, as you probably know, I'm a linguist. So we can learn a lot of for example, languages subliminally and you probably know there's a A lot of courses out of garlic, learn French wild sleeping or something. And, of course, I personally tend to stay away from those courses as much as possible, because in most cases, they're just pure branding and marketing, and there's no real value in them. But basically, anytime there's a form of audio or sound or music in the background, or there are certain types of visual basically pulses in the background, but let's say you're watching for example, something and then at a millisecond, there are certain basically images being shown. Now your conscious mind will never recognize that little thing. But your subconscious is actually reading on that and actually is changing and affecting your behavior. This is also used in a lot of research in labs as well as psychological tests. So it's a great way to influence basically now from my point of view, the most effective forms of subliminal learning when it comes to audio for us is generally for changing your mental condition and the way you feel because it's probably now as we're going throughout our day from morning Tonight, we're receiving a lot of input through our fire senses. And we have no conscious awareness of them because they're just too many of them because we can actually process them consciously up to seven bits of information per second. So that's not that much even though we have a lot of information coming in. So so what we're learning here allows us to improve learning by creating an easier way to have information fed to our mind indirectly. So as in the case of language learning for example, you can actually just sit back and have for example, as you're working on your let's say, I don't know laundry, you in the background, Listen to the music and sound of a foreign language and over time, this actually gives you a great idea of what it is and when it comes to money other material for example, so you want to, I don't know perhaps learn new, you know, chemical formulas or other ways. So you have the material in the background as you are going basically throughout you know your day and you listen that material and you hear it and after a while even though it is not a very efficient or fast way of learning since it almost cost you nothing, because it is subliminal, and you don't have to Spend your time. Because of this, it actually ends up becoming a lot more effective over the long term. Because even the learning is very efficient in the short term, when you are focused and you're trying to learn something by paying full attention. Once we have that at a subliminal level, now we have no time left. So all of a sudden, you can now spend hours per day learning for example, perhaps new words, let's say new useful, for example, material or let's say scientific journals or any type of learning because you know, it can be in the background. But from my point of view, of course, I intend to use simple basic learning mainly to condition my mind if you know no p&l conditioning is about getting your mind and your basically body a state of being oftentimes it is associated with peak level or peak psychology where you are at your best you're fully sharp, and you feel great. That is basically also another usage of simple learning when it comes to education and basically personal development.   Pouya LJ  06:00 That's, that's really good. So I mean, you mentioned in addition to your, your mind your thoughts, etc. That's great. Now, you are somebody who knows a lot of languages, and I suspect you spent a lot of time actively learning them. But do you also use subliminal methods and developing your language? Because I'm pretty sure a lot of people listening to this to this podcast are interested in learning new languages or are doing it. Is there any? Are there any ways maybe perhaps podcasts and different languages? I've heard you say, I play video games, for instance, in language learning. Yeah, of course,   Dan  06:36 of course. Now, playing video games per se would not necessarily act. So as simple as learning a foreign language because, again, you're fully immersed, you're fully engaged, because submittal is usually when it's in the background. So you mentioned audio, such as podcasts, such as, you know, just TV being turned on the back when that's true. So basically, before getting here, I was actually listening to some material, you know, in Arabic, so I was actually basically doing my stuff. And I was watching Dubai, for example channels to just hear some Arabic in the background basically as a form of subliminal learning. And I do that, of course with a lot of languages and different material. So in a language learning I personally believe that signal learning actually is very effective as a means of letting your brain rest because as you probably now, if you are trying to learn a language from morning tonight, at some point, you will have a burnout because it's gonna be just just too much for you know, Brady to take in at once. However, with the power of the signal learning, you can actually have that language fed to your mind subconsciously, from morning tonight without you actually working so much or pingan a lot of conscious attention. And of course, as I personally have experienced, it really works. Just having that in the background really works, especially when it comes to the musical language I should not long ago I basically published a funny video on Instagram. It was an HGTV exclusive about me mentioning different accents and who asked like, yeah, how did you learn all these things? And the answer is, of course in the mall learning because I literally have All of those basically in my back of my head, and I had no idea to actually learn to pick up their accents, even though I was listen to my clients and my students and my friends in different languages. And this actually got me that in the background, so for language learning, of course, it is very efficient. And anybody who wants to get, you know, take their language to the next level, they should definitely, you know, tap into the power of the normal learning and try to actually listen as much as possible in the background while they're doing other things. And this improves, of course, their overall level of basically fluency because the brain is always learning, even if you're not consciously aware of it, the brain is always learning. And that's exactly hopefully going to get us to the next part, which is why it can be used to change people's behavior, or preferences. And then I'm going to know why. And this is of course, used, basically, and let's say commercials, advertising and other forms, not necessarily Of course in business but also in politics and forms of propaganda, or mass, for example, indoctrinations these could be used and they have huge aquaforce   Pouya LJ  09:01 Yeah, so before we actually segue there, I'm wondering, I know it's Isaac igtv exclusive. But do you can you give us a taste of one of those favorite accents of yours?   Dan  09:12 Oh, well, I don't know, perhaps you could go for I mean, my first course is Russian. And I like Russian. Because like, you've spent a lot of time trying to them the language and like, you have to tell us that it's not very easy for me to do that. But when you hear this every day from different people, he helps you to understand what it is. And of course, that's just one of the things basically, because it allows you to learn it and to practice it, basically. And I hear this, of course, I have a lot of great content from Russia, do the exact same thing, of course, in different languages. But what really matters, of course, is trying to hear it in the back to a great perspective to learn about it, and then feeling somehow imitated, which is very important, of course, in language learning.   Pouya LJ  09:51 Okay, yeah, that's good. That's good. Appreciate it. Alright, so let's segue to the body. Yeah, thank you. So let's segue to the Other parts, which is mainly about influencing people without their knowledge without their perhaps consent, because if you're doing it to yourself if you're learning something language, whatever, it's probably intentional and you have consented to it, but a lot of times through advertisement, yes, political campaigns, propaganda, etc. You're being influenced left and right, without your consent or knowledge or even awareness, which is not later in two weeks time, not two weeks, probably two years time you see yourself a different person and you have no idea what that is why that is. So now advertisement, I guess it's a little bit more intuitive. People have seen these subliminal, you know, effects. For example, you know, Pepsi, Coca Cola, whatever, visually specially, obviously, x. Sure, let's, let's talk about that a little bit. But can you also segue to the political and PR pack for propaganda? Yeah,   Dan  10:56 well, they actually are very much linked because they're about Like you see, a perfect example of subliminal learning is actually billboards. Because when you're walking around the city as you're driving, believe it or not, you do not pay a lot of conscious attention to the billboards. And of course, billboards are designed like this. And of course, mainly not just build like all all types of commercials, the ones that you see pop in and out, for example, let's say on your browser, basically on your apps phone. So ultimately, advertising is designed to make you feel familiar with something without you putting a lot of time to learn to get you know, to get to know that thing, right. Because human mind is like this, if we are exposed to anything, whether it is for example, a new idea, whether it is a new product, or a new language doesn't really matter. Doesn't matter how strange or even alien that concept might be. If we are exposed to it frequently enough. Eventually we come to see that thing as it belonging to us like we feel a sense of connection to it. That could be a mere, for example, brands could be a product could be a drink. Could be, for example, a new gadget or a new system, a company or even sometimes a political innovatively way of running the government. So all of these things are subject to influence. And unfortunately, a lot of us we think, like, well, that's not for me. I'm a very smart guy. This is not about intelligence, it doesn't matter how smart you are we all right, no, you and I are sitting here discussing this issue. And we are consciously analyzing different aspects. You and I are as susceptible to this thing as anybody else. Which means it doesn't matter how much you know about this consciously, you are not immune to this subconscious impact that will of course have on you. So as you're driving to and from work every single day, and you have this Coca Cola has, let's say, logo in the background, you're saying like, well, that's just nothing. I don't like sugary drinks. It's not for me at all. I don't really care about these things. But you don't i don't know after a few weeks, you end up going to the grocery store. You just you're in your head like yeah, I gotta pay the bills and all those things and you know, pay the cashier and you do that Why do I just Miko cola. I don't know how it happened. And this is one of the you know, the impacts of this because, of course, it's a form of visual learning at a subconscious level auditorily of course, many other things could happen as well, in terms of using music, let's say in your commercials and other forms of giving you that basically immersion because the fact of the matter is, if you are exposed to anything, even if you are not consciously aware of it, you are going to be influenced by that doesn't really matter even if which is why I think the best way not to be influenced is to actually get away from that object that could actually influence you that's like the only permanent solution. It's kind of like you know, if you want safety of your, for example, data, just put a sticker on a duct tape over the you know, let's say your laptop's camera. This is kind of like that, like the only way not to be influenced by something or someone or some idea is to just simply be away from it and not paid any conscious attention. Nor receive any subliminal impact from that thing. And because of this, it's now being used openly, basically a variety of things. That's why advertising and commercial industry is such a big industry because it works. Because it persuades billions of people around the world to buy products. They don't need to impress people they don't actually like. And this is like the power of some little learning when, when it applies to basically business and we are all vulnerable in this regard.   Pouya LJ  14:30 Yeah, that's very true. And I suppose we're closing in on the US elections. I suppose we're going to see a lot of those campaigns. Well,   Dan  14:37 listen, as you probably know, I'm an endorser of basically Joe Biden. But the fact of the matter is, even Joe himself is very smart and he understands these things. So even though he I personally don't like Trump. You can see how Joe Biden is actually using a lot of great well designed, for example, attack ads that he's making against Trump like he picks up, for example, one four recently Trump in one of the interviews, he was saying, like, yeah, we have a lot of debt deaths, it is what it is. And we're doing our best. So Biden took that phrase, it is what it is, and then repeated like five times in one attack. And these things aren't being like what mom, voters will know. That's just one of the phrases that he said. But the fact of the matter is, those types of subliminal impact, especially when repeated again and again, via social media, of course, will have a huge impact on the voters. And now we're seeing this happening. Obviously, top politicians are experts at this type of influence, because they are oftentimes the kind of people who have paid a lot of money to their campaign managers to create such types of ads to promote their ideas, basically, and because of this, we are susceptible to that type of influence as well. And that is why I think that it's much better for society as a whole to be well educated and well informed about politics. Otherwise, most people could end up making decisions based upon merely ads and take a look at our last lecture. In 2016, and a lot of people simply voted for Trump because of these things, because they felt like he will make all these changes, even though they have no idea who Trump was. And because of this, of course, we have to know how we can deal with this issue and how to somehow keep ourselves immune against all of this negative impact.   Pouya LJ  16:18 All right, that's very great. I think we talked about most of the things we aimed to talk about, and this was supposed to be a shorter episode as a response to like a follow up to our previous episode, because we talked about the influence of audio. And we talked about a lot of the aspects that are conscious, but also a lot of aspects that are that were unconscious, like the subliminal impact. And yeah, so I think, I think I think this was a good sum up from my perspective, but is there something else that we missed out left out that you want to talk about?   Dan  16:48 Well, first of all, I want to thank our listener have actually gave us this idea to discuss this matter, but I really believe that if we want to protect ourselves against negative influence, we have to be aware of some of the learning of all sorts Now that's not always bad but I've actually personally make good use of this technology because it really is it's nothing more than a technology for influencing other people basically right so if you have the ability to use that for yourself that's great. Now we mentioned that we can use some learning for a variety of Thai you know, types of learning what be at Korean languages be for example, new concepts in school or in university and at the same time, we can use it for changing our mental condition. For example, ask yourself what type of sound is there in my background in my home most of the time is classic music is it death metal and dual metal is it's you know, Britney Spears, because all of these are going to change your impact if you're in the background with some you know, classic music most of the time, the chances are you're more introverted and very kind of soft and at the same time very well you know, where and probably very intelligent. If you have a lot of doom metal in the background that don't worry why you want to just paint somebody in the face. You don't know why this happens as well. Right? And of course, all of these things Depends on it. And now this could be not just coming to your, let's say your audio in the background, it could be also about the image you have in the background. So what kind of colors are you exposed to most of the time, that's going to make you you know, feel differently about that, you know, based on the color of your listening, that you're paying attention to, and you're listening to and all those things. And finally, it's about using it, unfortunately, to manipulate other people. So we're all vulnerable here. So if you're watching, let's say, I don't know sort of commercials, like that's not for me, I know that Coca Cola is just nothing more than diabetes, that so it is sold in bottles and cans, but the fact of the matter is, if you're exposed to it, and now, eventually you come to see Coca Cola as nothing, but a familiar product that you will actually pick up without even knowing why when you're just doing your grocery shopping. Of course, we also mentioned that this could be used to create basically a new approach to dogma by trying to create propagandas and influence voter behavior. And of course, we've seen this already happening. Our last election was This time, it'll be a little bit different.   Pouya LJ  19:02 That's great. Thank you again for joining us and talking to us, Dan. My pleasure, buddy. It's always a pleasure to be here with you. Appreciate it. And thank you everybody for tuning in and listening to our episode. I hope this was useful for you until later episode. Have a good one.

Having control over our sensory input insures choice over the outcomes that we achieve in life and while many of us are quite picky about what we eat or even see, a great deal of us are thoughtless about what we listen to! In this episode of Beyond the Present Podcast Dan and Poujix discuss the importance of being more selective about what we listen to from sound and music to podcasts and audiobooks.  You are what you listen to thus if you want to change the quality of your life you need to change the quality of your auditory input and this short program will remind you to do just that.      Episode Transcript:----more---- SUMMARY KEYWORDS book, listen, audio, podcasts, audiobooks, audio inputs, choosing, life, author, input, applicable, important, poker, impact, influenced, emotional state, music, importance, title, topic SPEAKERS Pouya LJ, Dan   Pouya LJ  00:09 Hello, and welcome back to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast. Let's talk addition as always with Daniel Mulligan How's it going Dan?   Dan  00:16 it, man, buddy. How are you? Good to be here with you for yet another great episode of The let's talk edition, and couldn't be excited about this matter anymore because it's just so great to hear your voice after a while. And life is great. I mean the coronavirus pandemic is obviously not over at all, but we are still seeing some, you know, even spikes, basically that are going up in some cases now. Now California is ahead. But overall life is good. And life is somehow getting back to normal in some countries. And of course, generally, we're not complaining Life is good and we're going forward.   Pouya LJ  00:51 Let's pretty good. Good to hear that.   Dan  00:54 Now.   Pouya LJ  00:55 So today's topic, thankfully we're not talking about anything Coronavirus related for change And we are talking about. So this is a topic you introduce and you will you sort of use you mentioned, you are what you listen to. And it was a very interesting scenario. And I think we share similar thoughts on the matter. So we thought, you know what, let's go go ahead and give it a go to try about this topic. And so first of all, can you can you explain what you meant? When you said, You are what you listen to? What do you mean by say   Dan  01:26 was, it said that you are what you eat is like pretty common. But the fact of the matter is that a lot of us we pay up a lot more attention to what we eat. But we don't care so much about the other inputs, as we know we have, you know, five major inputs. Basically, one is of course, visual one is kinesthetic, the things that we touch or do physically. And one is of course, what we taste. One is what we basically hear. And unfortunately, that's what unfortunately gets ignored and neglected a lot. Because of this. I believe that we need to take care That aspect of basically our lives as well, if you want to, you know, take full control of our lives, because if you are not in control of what auditory input you have in your head on a daily basis, then of course, you will have some problems and your life will not go the way you want. And for this reason, I believe that the quality of your life really is determined by what you listen to.   Pouya LJ  02:23 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, though. I want to also mention Yes, it's one of the things that the one of the downsides is that you can't really turn it off easily, like you can't shut your ear and not the best you can do is pluck your ear. There. There's a question how much the worst actually doesn't work that much does it? No, not really. It makes it dim, but still you can hear but there is a there is a there's a degree that you can also think of it as upside. And that is you can listen to stuff passively meaning web while doing other stuff. For example, you're listening to podcasts, perhaps if you're in the gym or commuting, driving. Whatever. So now, I want to talk about that. I want you to talk about that a little bit. And so what are so we met, you mentioned the downside, and there's an upside. What are the ways you can we can do to optimize the upside, but on the other hand, minimize the negative part. Do you have a   Dan  03:18 very good question. You see, when it comes to understanding the way the environment affects you, you have to understand that what you listen to has a direct impact on you. A lot of times people ask like, Dan, what do you get all this energy to be active all the time? And the answer is because I'm very much aware of what input I have throughout the day, not just basically auditorily there are many other ways to control it. But for me, audio is very, very important. Of course, I grew up as an auditory learner for the most part. So for me, that was always a thing which actually led to me becoming a polyglot. But the fact of the matter is that once you have control over what you listen to, it changes the way you think you change the way you feel the world around you. And because of this, I've always believed in the importance of looking at audio and your audio inputs very carefully. For example, most of us we don't care, some show will be listened to, we drive and we listen to random music. We listen to random radio programs, and we put all this junk into our head and wonder why life sucks. There's a reason if you're listening, you know, you're driving down the road, you listen to a song and says, Oh, my wife just left me. Life is all terrible. And I'm alone. And you start singing along with this crap. And you wonder like, Well, why do I feel so bad? Dude, you just listened to a shitty music and you wonder why you feel bad. So I believe that if you want to optimize the overall quality of your life, you have to take a look at what audio inputs you have at on a regular basis. And most of us we have a variety of basically forms of audio input. Namely, of course, we have the music, but that we all listen to on a regular basis. Then we have things like radio programs, podcasts, audio books, and so on. And I really believe that you can cannot really take your life to the next level. If you're not controlling basically the the type of audio that you actually listen to. And if you want to optimize it to the way you want it, ask yourself, what kind of state of emotional, emotional state or states of being I want to be in? And more importantly, what are my targets and the long term that I want to achieve? And once you know those, then you say what type of audio inputs will allow me to achieve that, so does listen to sad or doesn't seem to useless material or useless radio talk shows necessarily allow you to achieve that. If the answer's no, then you should probably make an adjustment here and start changing it for the better.   Pouya LJ  05:45 Yeah, that that actually makes a lot of sense. Lots of good points there. Now. So I have a question for you. Like let's say we have a goal we have a you know, we want to optimize that the listening passive listening skill, if you will. So one of the you mentioned these you have, we have audiobooks or podcasts that you can specifically pick and choose and listen to, to help you or you know, in your path, whatever that may be learn something new, helps you do something. So, I'm sure you use selectively go go about choosing your podcasts and audio, audible books or any kind of audio book that you listen to. Do you have any any specific methods of weeding out the use less than using the choosing the good ones to listen to? Or do you think it's generally? Yeah, go ahead.   Dan  06:36 Very good question. You see projects out when I want to make a choice here about what to listen to you. I asked myself, What will I get because I look at time as investment as money. And I asked myself, so I'm going to spend seven some audiobooks. I listen to where you know, more than 20 hours. I mean, for example, I recently finished a book called basically The room where it happens by john bolton. And that book was more than 20 hours. And when I finished that audiobook, I got a badge on Audible saying that this called the I don't know, Mount Everest band or something. I literally got a badge for the longest audio book I've ever listened to. And that was, you know, you can imagine that's a huge investment of time. And because of this, I asked myself, I cannot just skip through this the way I do this when I'm reading a book, you know, visually. So I asked myself, is the content of this book relevant to me or not? If the answer is no, I simply won't speak in listen to the audiobook, because what's the point of trying to read something or you know, listen to an audiobook that you simply will never use in the future? So it's not immediately relevant. I just don't do it. Now. The second layer filtering is okay. Maybe I think this book is relevant to me. For example, not long ago, I was listening to an audio book, basically a called the biggest bluff. It's about the journey. As a professional poker player, now in that audio book, and you know, the description, the audio books description was all about how the philosophy of poker, for example, can be applied to politics and to be applied to business. I mean, the poker face concept and putting yourself in the, you know, certain positions to make decisions, and so on and so forth. And I thought this would be applicable, you know, in business, and I actually made the purchase, I got the audiobook, I was listening. And after about a few hours, I realized No, man, this isn't really not at all about business or politics. It's really about pure poker. And it's talking about the journey of a professional poker player who went from complete newbie to I don't know, World Series of Poker tournament, for example, extraordinaire, and then I realized, well, do I really want to spend the next three, four hours finishing it? And I realized No, because unfortunately, you see projects, a lot of us especially guys like you and me, we tend to somehow detest giving out we say, like, you know, what if I if I don't finish this audio book that I'm giving up And therefore, I should keep listening to this garbage because otherwise I have given up. No man, this is not the case because in reality, you could spend that four or five hours, let's do another audio book that will actually be ethical. Because the fact of the matter is, if you just grind through the audio book, so you know what I got to finish this audiobook right now. So what happens? after about four or five hours, six hours, 10 hours you finish it, and then what happens? You'll forget about it. So if you're going to forget about it, then why spend that 10 hours listening anyways. And for that reason, I believe that it's better to go for that two layer method. So at first, you fully filter out the topics, and let's say, the titles that are not relevant to you. On the second level, once you read and start reading or listening, you ask yourself, Is this really helping me or not? If the answer is no, just abandon it and move on to another audio program, podcasts or some other source.   Pouya LJ  09:54 That's exactly that's exactly my that was my problem. And now isn't so much What do I mean by that? Is that you mentioned that if it's not useful, you thought it's different kind of audiobook, and it's not living up to your standards or your thought or your expectations. Yeah, I don't I don't shy away from dropping dead, which is a good advice, in my opinion, but even books, but specifically audiobooks because you have to dedicate that chunk of time, as you mentioned. And I used to think otherwise, meaning Yes, I can't give up whatever. And at some point, that is accumulation of thoughts. Give me this epiphany that, yeah, well, the not giving up scenario has a purpose because if you don't give up there is a gem at the end of all of that suffering that will you know, that will be that will be unlocked and you can access it. However, in the case of a audio book that is not useful to you, not interesting to you or not useful to you, not helpful to you. There's really nothing but for our statistics, which I read this book, too, which is, well, who cares? What is the result of that? So I I completely agree on that on that point. And I think I think just choosing is obviously requires some time and research, to dedicate to choose Good, good audio books, podcasts, what have you. And one one way, which is usually a reliable way is word of mouth from people you trust, and they can explain to you what the book is about to a degree. So you have a higher degree of confidence of purchase. But at the end of the day, there's always chance that, you know, I thought differently about this book, and it turned out differently. So, you know, no, no shying away from dropping the books. Do you have any other method methodology in choosing a books, podcast, whatever, like, for example, by author maybe I don't know, like, maybe   Dan  11:46 because sometimes a lot of the, you know, titles that I find, let's say audiobooks are certainly, you know, knowing the author, because I believe that sometimes you don't know the author, maybe it's like her or his first book. So in that case, you Need to actually give it a shot. For me it's more about whether or not the description of that audio material or the podcasts or whatever it is, if it be directly, that's, for me a lot more important than who the author is. Because sometimes very famous authors, just because they are famous, they just want to, you know, write more and make more money and just write more books. And a lot of you know, top authors books are total junk after about a few books, I mean, because basically, they just got to rights, and if you will, and they end up writing some crap. So for me, it's not about the author so much as it is about the top of the title, how relevant The topic is to me, and that's how I usually pick them. But of course, I usually go through the best selling list on Audible calm to see which titles are now bestsellers. Obviously, a lot of those titles are bestsellers because of the situation which might not be relevant to me personally. So in that case, I tend to somehow not care so much about it. But if I find a topic, or a title that is, you know, brand new or it's like a best Wunderland really applies to me. And of course I will take it and of course I will apply because in that case, the suit You know, going to be applicable regardless of who the author is. Sometimes I don't even know who the author of the book is. I know the title, but I don't remember the author's name. So that's okay, too, because what really matters is the content that you will consume in terms of audio. And that's for me, very, very important. And by the way, because I know you also listen to a lot of audiobooks, what is your typical audio routine these days? Like how much audio Do you listen to these days or in the past? What is your typical day like?   Pouya LJ  13:27 Right? Well, I mean, it's changed a lot since the Coronavirus situation developed because I used to do a lot more commute than I do now, due to covid. Or but I mean, still going so it's not to a halt and but it's much, much more reduced. And currently, I am actually reading, not reading rather listening to a podcast is always there. I have my own podcasts that I listened to whatever. But in terms of auto audiobooks, I am listening to one by this individual called Douglas Murray who's The book is called the madness of crowds. A and the author is a British journalist actually. So my vocabulary is much influenced by the fact that I'm listening to this. Yeah, we talked about the unconscious impact of audio, which we're not really aware of, perhaps, consciously, but it's always impacting us. And that's one of the one of the aspects of this like to listen, please   Dan  14:28 try the title myself, which is just double the deeper into what this thing is like the impact that we're receiving what the author exactly she's trying to say here.   Pouya LJ  14:38 Oh, no, but by the impact, I meant to impact the audiobooks itself. I already did this book. I was right. But the book is about a book it was about the well, the title is actually the subtitle of the title. Let me let me bring it up because I don't remember precisely, but it's very telling. It's basically about groupthink in a sense, so it says the madness of crowds crowds, gender, race and identity, the recent issues that have circulated around gender, race, identity, etc. orientation, all that, and the good the new groups that have emerged and the crowds that have started, you know, kind of like some eye movements anywho. So it's actually a quite a controversial book. But what I'm trying to say, regardless of the content of the book, his choice of vocabulary has influenced my choice of day to day speaking vocabulary that I use. I mean, I noticed that recently, but it does actually, even if I listen to podcasts, sometimes I see that, you know, sometimes my choice of vocabulary my own speaking, is changed or influenced, based on what I'm listening to. So when I was trying to highlight the importance of, you know, passive listening and what impact it can have on your mindset, Yeah, yeah. I don't know, do you feel you have the same?   Dan  16:05 For me personally, of course, I've been an audio learner myself. But I think that audio has a tremendous impact on us. I mean, think about this think of music, what is exactly music because music affects us emotionally, in ways that I don't know, speeches or even you know, articles, books or even masterpieces do not do it. And music has been with us since you know, our evolutionary background, which is why I believe that the impact to influence us auditorily is far higher than many other mediums. And other than that, of course, it's about you know, your own perspective. It's all about how audio affects you personally, not just in terms of like, what you listen to, but also how you express yourself, which is why in the, you know, in the area, for example, marketing and personal branding, recommend things like podcasts because nowadays, that's the one basically platform that never gets too old. People will can will always be able to find time to put in some listening time in their schedule, which is why I believe that not only is effective in terms of how it affects our emotions, but in all facets of life, whether it is branding or marketing, or whatever it is, you can always use audio as you as a major carrier of information that not only transcends beyond just mere words, hers emotions and the feelings and values of the person who's saying that So overall, I totally understand the importance of basically audio and how it really affects us the way many other basically inputs do not do it.   Pouya LJ  17:36 And Besant doesn't amazing now for the end part of the today's show, is there anything we didn't talk about that you want to address, or you want to summarize what we talked about?   Dan  17:48 Well, first of all, I really want to thank you for choosing this topic because I believe it's quite important for us to fathom the importance of the audio input that we have. So all listeners should now ask themselves do I Choose the music I listen to on a regular basis with care. Do I know the emotional state of my favorite for example, musicians? I mean, let's be honest. Many top celebrities, top musicians have serious mental issues. And a person with all that mental issues, the lyric and the music that will come out of that mind will in some way also be sick and not necessarily applicable. So ask yourself, do I really feel a sense of connection to these artists that I have around me? Have I selected these bands just because they are cool, or because I really feel that the message resonates with who I am, because unfortunately of us, don't do that. And be very selective of the kind of music you listen to because that ultimately reflects on many things and determines your emotional state. Other than that, we discussed the importance of audio and all forms, whether podcast, audio books, radio programs, and so on, because we believe that audio really has deeper impact on us as an input than many other forms of input and choosing the right basically audio format for us. And more importantly, the right sources are very important. We also talked about, you know, the whole concept of never ever give up, which does not really apply to audiobooks. And we mentioned, whether it comes to when it comes to audiobooks or podcasts. If you start listening, and you realize, well, this audio book really is not about me, or if you're listening to podcasts, and you realize that I don't know after about, I mean, we have some very, very long podcast goes on for hours. So after about an hour and a half, it's like, you know, well, it says two hours left. So it's a three and a half hour podcast. Do I really have to finish it? The answer is no, of course not. So do not apply the same thing if it doesn't immediately attract your attention. Then you are going to forget it. So why listen anyways, and that of course then allows you to choose the Write source of material, the right source of input for yourself that will also be applicable and you will remember it and you can actually apply it in your daily life. So, for that reason, it can actually be a lot more conscious of the content that you choose and the material that you actually try to listen to on a regular basis. And by doing so, you will then be able to control how you feel how you think and the results that you will ultimately get in life.   Pouya LJ  20:24 That's amazing. Thank you, Dan, for like, we appreciate it. And thank you all hope. I hope that we have influenced you auditorially well today and until a later on jatoi, auditory influence Cheers.