Podcast appearances and mentions of Albert Lee

For those who haven't heard the announcement I posted, songs from this point on will sometimes be split among multiple episodes, so this is the second part of a two-episode look at the song “Who Knows Where The Time Goes?” by Fairport Convention, and the intertwining careers of Joe Boyd, Sandy Denny, and Richard Thompson. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a forty-one-minute bonus episode available, on Judy Collins’ version of this song. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by editing, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Erratum For about an hour this was uploaded with the wrong Elton John clip in place of “Saturday Sun”. This has now been fixed. Resources Because of the increasing problems with Mixcloud’s restrictions, I have decided to start sharing streaming playlists of the songs used in episodes instead of Mixcloud ones. This Tunemymusic link will let you listen to the playlist I created on your streaming platform of choice — however please note that not all the songs excerpted are currently available on streaming. The songs missing from the Tidal version are “Shanten Bells” by the Ian Campbell Folk Group, “Tom’s Gone to Hilo” by A.L. Lloyd, two by Paul McNeill and Linda Peters, three by Elton John & Linda Peters, “What Will I Do With Tomorrow” by Sandy Denny and “You Never Know” by Charlie Drake, but the other fifty-nine are there. Other songs may be missing from other services. The main books I used on Fairport Convention as a whole were Patrick Humphries' Meet On The Ledge, Clinton Heylin's What We Did Instead of Holidays, and Kevan Furbank's Fairport Convention on Track. Rob Young's Electric Eden is the most important book on the British folk-rock movement. Information on Richard Thompson comes from Patrick Humphries' Richard Thompson: Strange Affair and Thompson's own autobiography Beeswing.  Information on Sandy Denny comes from Clinton Heylin's No More Sad Refrains and Mick Houghton's I've Always Kept a Unicorn. I also used Joe Boyd's autobiography White Bicycles and Chris Blackwell's The Islander.  And this three-CD set is the best introduction to Fairport's music currently in print. Transcript Before we begin, this episode contains reference to alcohol and cocaine abuse and medical neglect leading to death. It also starts with some discussion of the fatal car accident that ended last episode. There’s also some mention of child neglect and spousal violence. If that’s likely to upset you, you might want to skip this episode or read the transcript. One of the inspirations for this podcast when I started it back in 2018 was a project by Richard Thompson, which appears (like many things in Thompson’s life) to have started out of sheer bloody-mindedness. In 1999 Playboy magazine asked various people to list their “songs of the Millennium”, and most of them, understanding the brief, chose a handful of songs from the latter half of the twentieth century. But Thompson determined that he was going to list his favourite songs *of the millennium*. He didn’t quite manage that, but he did cover seven hundred and forty years, and when Playboy chose not to publish it, he decided to turn it into a touring show, in which he covered all his favourite songs from “Sumer Is Icumen In” from 1260: [Excerpt: Richard Thompson, “Sumer is Icumen In”] Through numerous traditional folk songs, union songs like “Blackleg Miner”, pieces by early-modern composers, Victorian and Edwardian music hall songs, and songs by the Beatles, the Ink Spots, the Kinks, and the Who, all the way to “Oops! I Did It Again”: [Excerpt: Richard Thompson, “Oops! I Did it Again”] And to finish the show, and to show how all this music actually ties together, he would play what he described as a “medieval tune from Brittany”, “Marry, Ageyn Hic Hev Donne Yt”: [Excerpt: Richard Thompson, “Marry, Ageyn Hic Hev Donne Yt”] We have said many times in this podcast that there is no first anything, but there’s a reason that Liege and Lief, Fairport Convention’s third album of 1969, and the album other than Unhalfbricking on which their reputation largely rests, was advertised with the slogan “The first (literally) British folk rock album ever”. Folk-rock, as the term had come to be known, and as it is still usually used today, had very little to do with traditional folk music. Rather, the records of bands like The Byrds or Simon and Garfunkel were essentially taking the sounds of British beat groups of the early sixties, particularly the Searchers, and applying those sounds to material by contemporary singer-songwriters. People like Paul Simon and Bob Dylan had come up through folk clubs, and their songs were called folk music because of that, but they weren’t what folk music had meant up to that point — songs that had been collected after being handed down through the folk process, changed by each individual singer, with no single identifiable author. They were authored songs by very idiosyncratic writers. But over their last few albums, Fairport Convention had done one or two tracks per album that weren’t like that, that were instead recordings of traditional folk songs, but arranged with rock instrumentation. They were not necessarily the first band to try traditional folk music with electric instruments — around the same time that Fairport started experimenting with the idea, so did an Irish band named Sweeney’s Men, who brought in a young electric guitarist named Henry McCullough briefly. But they do seem to have been the first to have fully embraced the idea. They had done so to an extent with “A Sailor’s Life” on Unhalfbricking, but now they were going to go much further: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Matty Groves” (from about 4:30)] There had been some doubt as to whether Fairport Convention would even continue to exist — by the time Unhalfbricking, their second album of the year, was released, they had been through the terrible car accident that had killed Martin Lamble, the band’s drummer, and Jeannie Franklyn, Richard Thompson’s girlfriend. Most of the rest of the band had been seriously injured, and they had made a conscious decision not to discuss the future of the band until they were all out of hospital. Ashley Hutchings was hospitalised the longest, and Simon Nicol, Richard Thompson, and Sandy Denny, the other three surviving members of the band, flew over to LA with their producer and manager, Joe Boyd, to recuperate there and get to know the American music scene. When they came back, the group all met up in the flat belonging to Denny’s boyfriend Trevor Lucas, and decided that they were going to continue the band. They made a few decisions then — they needed a new drummer, and as well as a drummer they wanted to get in Dave Swarbrick. Swarbrick had played violin on several tracks on Unhalfbricking as a session player, and they had all been thrilled to work with him. Swarbrick was one of the most experienced musicians on the British folk circuit. He had started out in the fifties playing guitar with Beryl Marriott’s Ceilidh Band before switching to fiddle, and in 1963, long before Fairport had formed, he had already appeared on TV with the Ian Campbell Folk Group, led by Ian Campbell, the father of Ali and Robin Campbell, later of UB40: [Excerpt: The Ian Campbell Folk Group, “Shanten Bells (medley on Hullaballoo!)”] He’d sung with Ewan MacColl and A.L. Lloyd: [Excerpt: A.L. Lloyd, “Tom’s Gone to Hilo” ] And he’d formed his hugely successful duo with Martin Carthy, releasing records like “Byker Hill” which are often considered among the best British folk music of all time: [Excerpt: Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick, “Byker Hill”] By the time Fairport had invited him to play on Unhalfbricking, Swarbrick had already performed on twenty albums as a core band member, plus dozens more EPs, singles, and odd tracks on compilations. They had no reason to think they could actually get him to join their band. But they had three advantages. The first was that Swarbrick was sick of the traditional folk scene at the time, saying later “I didn’t like seven-eighths of the people involved in it, and it was extremely opportune to leave. I was suddenly presented with the possibilities of exploring the dramatic content of the songs to the full.” The second was that he was hugely excited to be playing with Richard Thompson, who was one of the most innovative guitarists of his generation, and Martin Carthy remembers him raving about Thompson after their initial sessions. (Carthy himself was and is no slouch on the guitar of course, and there was even talk of getting him to join the band at this point, though they decided against it — much to the relief of rhythm guitarist Simon Nicol, who is a perfectly fine player himself but didn’t want to be outclassed by *two* of the best guitarists in Britain at the same time). And the third was that Joe Boyd told him that Fairport were doing so well — they had a single just about to hit the charts with “Si Tu Dois Partir” — that he would only have to play a dozen gigs with Fairport in order to retire. As it turned out, Swarbrick would play with the group for a decade, and would never retire — I saw him on his last tour in 2015, only eight months before he died. The drummer the group picked was also a far more experienced musician than any of the rest, though in a very different genre. Dave Mattacks had no knowledge at all of the kind of music they played, having previously been a player in dance bands. When asked by Hutchings if he wanted to join the band, Mattacks’ response was “I don’t know anything about the music. I don’t understand it… I can’t tell one tune from another, they all sound the same… but if you want me to join the group, fine, because I really like it. I’m enjoying myself musically.” Mattacks brought a new level of professionalism to the band, thanks to his different background. Nicol said of him later “He was dilligent, clean, used to taking three white shirts to a gig… The application he could bring to his playing was amazing. With us, you only played well when you were feeling well.” This distinction applied to his playing as well. Nicol would later describe the difference between Mattacks’ drumming and Lamble’s by saying “Martin’s strength was as an imaginative drummer. DM came in with a strongly developed sense of rhythm, through keeping a big band of drunken saxophone players in order. A great time-keeper.” With this new line-up and a new sense of purpose, the group did as many of their contemporaries were doing and “got their heads together in the country”. Joe Boyd rented the group a mansion, Farley House, in Farley Chamberlayne, Hampshire, and they stayed there together for three months. At the start, the group seem to have thought that they were going to make another record like Unhalfbricking, with some originals, some songs by American songwriters, and a few traditional songs. Even after their stay in Farley Chamberlayne, in fact, they recorded a few of the American songs they’d rehearsed at the start of the process, Richard Farina’s “Quiet Joys of Brotherhood” and Bob Dylan and Roger McGuinn’s “Ballad of Easy Rider”: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Ballad of Easy Rider”] Indeed, the whole idea of “getting our heads together in the country” (as the cliche quickly became in the late sixties as half of the bands in Britain went through much the same kind of process as Fairport were doing — but usually for reasons more to do with drug burnout or trend following than recovering from serious life-changing trauma) seems to have been inspired by Bob Dylan and the Band getting together in Big Pink. But very quickly they decided to follow the lead of Ashley Hutchings, who had had something of a Damascene conversion to the cause of traditional English folk music. They were listening mostly to Music From Big Pink by the Band, and to the first album by Sweeney’s Men: [Excerpt: Sweeney’s Men, “The Handsome Cabin Boy”] And they decided that they were going to make something that was as English as those records were North American and Irish (though in the event there were also a few Scottish songs included on the record). Hutchings in particular was becoming something of a scholar of traditional music, regularly visiting Cecil Sharp House and having long conversations with A.L. Lloyd, discovering versions of different traditional songs he’d never encountered before. This was both amusing and bemusing Sandy Denny, who had joined a rock group in part to get away from traditional music; but she was comfortable singing the material, and knew a lot of it and could make a lot of suggestions herself. Swarbrick obviously knew the repertoire intimately, and Nicol was amenable, while Mattacks was utterly clueless about the folk tradition at this point but knew this was the music he wanted to make. Thompson knew very little about traditional music, and of all the band members except Denny he was the one who has shown the least interest in the genre in his subsequent career — but as we heard at the beginning, showing the least interest in the genre is a relative thing, and while Thompson was not hugely familiar with the genre, he *was* able to work with it, and was also more than capable of writing songs that fit in with the genre. Of the eleven songs on the album, which was titled Liege and Lief (which means, roughly, Lord and Loyalty), there were no cover versions of singer-songwriters. Eight were traditional songs, and three were originals, all written in the style of traditional songs. The album opened with “Come All Ye”, an introduction written by Denny and Hutchings (the only time the two would ever write together): [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Come All Ye”] The other two originals were songs where Thompson had written new lyrics to traditional melodies. On “Crazy Man Michael”, Swarbrick had said to Thompson that the tune to which he had set his new words was weaker than the lyrics, to which Thompson had replied that if Swarbrick felt that way he should feel free to write a new melody. He did, and it became the first of the small number of Thompson/Swarbrick collaborations: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Crazy Man Michael”] Thompson and Swarbrick would become a brief songwriting team, but as much as anything else it was down to proximity — the two respected each other as musicians, but never got on very well. In 1981 Swarbrick would say “Richard and I never got on in the early days of FC… we thought we did, but we never did. We composed some bloody good songs together, but it was purely on a basis of “you write that and I’ll write this, and we’ll put it together.” But we never sat down and had real good chats.” The third original on the album, and by far the most affecting, is another song where Thompson put lyrics to a traditional tune. In this case he thought he was putting the lyrics to the tune of “Willie O'Winsbury”, but he was basing it on a recording by Sweeney’s Men. The problem was that Sweeney’s Men had accidentally sung the lyrics of “Willie O'Winsbury'” to the tune of a totally different song, “Fause Foodrage”: [Excerpt: Sweeney’s Men, “Willie O’Winsbury”] Thompson took that melody, and set to it lyrics about loss and separation. Thompson has never been one to discuss the meanings of his lyrics in any great detail, and in the case of this one has said “I really don't know what it means. This song came out of a dream, and I pretty much wrote it as I dreamt it (it was the sixties), and didn't spend very long analyzing it. So interpret as you wish – or replace with your own lines.” But in the context of the traffic accident that had killed his tailor girlfriend and a bandmate, and injured most of his other bandmates, the lyrics about lonely travellers, the winding road, bruised and beaten sons, saying goodbye, and never cutting cloth, seem fairly self-explanatory: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Farewell, Farewell”] The rest of the album, though, was taken up by traditional tunes. There was a long medley of four different fiddle reels; a version of “Reynardine” (a song about a seductive man — or is he a fox? Or perhaps both — which had been recorded by Swarbrick and Carthy on their most recent album); a 19th century song about a deserter saved from the firing squad by Prince Albert; and a long take on “Tam Lin”, one of the most famous pieces in the Scottish folk music canon, a song that has been adapted in different ways by everyone from the experimental noise band Current 93 to the dub poet Benjamin Zephaniah to the comics writer Grant Morrison: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Tam Lin”] And “Matty Groves”, a song about a man killing his cheating wife and her lover, which actually has a surprisingly similar story to that of “1921” from another great concept album from that year, the Who’s Tommy. “Matty Groves” became an excuse for long solos and shows of instrumental virtuosity: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Matty Groves”] The album was recorded in September 1969, after their return from their break in the country and a triumphal performance at the Royal Festival Hall, headlining over fellow Witchseason artists John and Beverly Martyn and Nick Drake. It became a classic of the traditional folk genre — arguably *the* classic of the traditional folk genre. In 2007 BBC Radio 2’s Folk Music Awards gave it an award for most influential folk album of all time, and while such things are hard to measure, I doubt there’s anyone with even the most cursory knowledge of British folk and folk-rock music who would not at least consider that a reasonable claim. But once again, by the time the album came out in November, the band had changed lineups yet again. There was a fundamental split in the band – on one side were Sandy Denny and Richard Thompson, whose stance was, roughly, that Liege and Lief was a great experiment and a fun thing to do once, but really the band had two first-rate songwriters in themselves, and that they should be concentrating on their own new material, not doing these old songs, good as they were. They wanted to take the form of the traditional songs and use that form for new material — they wanted to make British folk-rock, but with the emphasis on the rock side of things. Hutchings, on the other hand, was equally sure that he wanted to make traditional music and go further down the rabbit hole of antiquity. With the zeal of the convert he had gone in a couple of years from being the leader of a band who were labelled “the British Jefferson Airplane” to becoming a serious scholar of traditional folk music. Denny was tired of touring, as well — she wanted to spend more time at home with Trevor Lucas, who was sleeping with other women when she was away and making her insecure. When the time came for the group to go on a tour of Denmark, Denny decided she couldn’t make it, and Hutchings was jubilant — he decided he was going to get A.L. Lloyd into the band in her place and become a *real* folk group. Then Denny reconsidered, and Hutchings was crushed. He realised that while he had always been the leader, he wasn’t going to be able to lead the band any further in the traditionalist direction, and quit the group — but not before he was delegated by the other band members to fire Denny. Until the publication of Richard Thompson’s autobiography in 2022, every book on the group or its members said that Denny quit the band again, which was presumably a polite fiction that the band agreed, but according to Thompson “Before we flew home, we decided to fire Sandy. I don't remember who asked her to leave – it was probably Ashley, who usually did the dirty work. She was reportedly shocked that we would take that step. She may have been fragile beneath the confident facade, but she still knew her worth.” Thompson goes on to explain that the reasons for kicking her out were that “I suppose we felt that in her mind she had already left” and that “We were probably suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, though there wasn't a name for it back then.” They had considered inviting Trevor Lucas to join the band to make Denny more comfortable, but came to the (probably correct) conclusion that while he was someone they got on well with personally, he would be another big ego in a band that already had several, and that being around Denny and Lucas’ volatile relationship would, in Thompson’s phrasing, “have not always given one a feeling of peace and stability.” Hutchings originally decided he was going to join Sweeney’s Men, but that group were falling apart, and their first rehearsal with Hutchings would also be their last as a group, with only Hutchings and guitarist and mandolin player Terry Woods left in the band. They added Woods’ wife Gay, and another couple, Tim Hart and Maddy Prior, and formed a group called Steeleye Span, a name given them by Martin Carthy. That group, like Fairport, went to “get their heads together in the country” for three months and recorded an album of electric versions of traditional songs, Hark the Village Wait, on which Mattacks and another drummer, Gerry Conway, guested as Steeleye Span didn’t at the time have their own drummer: [Excerpt: Steeleye Span, “Blackleg Miner”] Steeleye Span would go on to have a moderately successful chart career in the seventies, but by that time most of the original lineup, including Hutchings, had left — Hutchings stayed with them for a few albums, then went on to form the first of a series of bands, all called the Albion Band or variations on that name, which continue to this day. And this is something that needs to be pointed out at this point — it is impossible to follow every single individual in this narrative as they move between bands. There is enough material in the history of the British folk-rock scene that someone could do a 500 Songs-style podcast just on that, and every time someone left Fairport, or Steeleye Span, or the Albion Band, or Matthews’ Southern Comfort, or any of the other bands we have mentioned or will mention, they would go off and form another band which would then fission, and some of its members would often join one of those other bands. There was a point in the mid-1970s where the Albion Band had two original members of Fairport Convention while Fairport Convention had none. So just in order to keep the narrative anything like wieldy, I’m going to keep the narrative concentrated on the two figures from Fairport — Sandy Denny and Richard Thompson — whose work outside the group has had the most influence on the wider world of rock music more broadly, and only deal with the other members when, as they often did, their careers intersected with those two. That doesn’t mean the other members are not themselves hugely important musicians, just that their importance has been primarily to the folk side of the folk-rock genre, and so somewhat outside the scope of this podcast. While Hutchings decided to form a band that would allow him to go deeper and deeper into traditional folk music, Sandy Denny’s next venture was rather different. For a long time she had been writing far more songs than she had ever played for her bandmates, like “Nothing More”, a song that many have suggested is about Thompson: [Excerpt: Fotheringay, “Nothing More”] When Joe Boyd heard that Denny was leaving Fairport Convention, he was at first elated. Fairport’s records were being distributed by A&M in the US at that point, but Island Records was in the process of opening up a new US subsidiary which would then release all future Fairport product — *but*, as far as A&M were concerned, Sandy Denny *was* Fairport Convention. They were only interested in her. Boyd, on the other hand, loved Denny’s work intensely, but from his point of view *Richard Thompson* was Fairport Convention. If he could get Denny signed directly to A&M as a solo artist before Island started its US operations, Witchseason could get a huge advance on her first solo record, while Fairport could continue making records for Island — he’d have two lucrative acts, on different labels. Boyd went over and spoke to A&M and got an agreement in principle that they would give Denny a forty-thousand-dollar advance on her first solo album — twice what they were paying for Fairport albums. The problem was that Denny didn’t want to be a solo act. She wanted to be the lead singer of a band. She gave many reasons for this — the one she gave to many journalists was that she had seen a Judy Collins show and been impressed, but noticed that Collins’ band were definitely a “backing group”, and as she put it “But that's all they were – a backing group. I suddenly thought, If you're playing together on a stage you might as well be TOGETHER.” Most other people in her life, though, say that the main reason for her wanting to be in a band was her desire to be with her boyfriend, Trevor Lucas. Partly this was due to a genuine desire to spend more time with someone with whom she was very much in love, partly it was a fear that he would cheat on her if she was away from him for long periods of time, and part of it seems to have been Lucas’ dislike of being *too* overshadowed by his talented girlfriend — he didn’t mind acknowledging that she was a major talent, but he wanted to be thought of as at least a minor one. So instead of going solo, Denny formed Fotheringay, named after the song she had written for Fairport. This new band consisted at first of Denny on vocals and occasional piano, Lucas on vocals and rhythm guitar, and Lucas’ old Eclection bandmate Gerry Conway on drums. For a lead guitarist, they asked Richard Thompson who the best guitarist in Britain was, and he told them Albert Lee. Lee in turn brought in bass player Pat Donaldson, but this lineup of the band barely survived a fortnight. Lee *was* arguably the best guitarist in Britain, certainly a reasonable candidate if you could ever have a singular best (as indeed was Thompson himself), but he was the best *country* guitarist in Britain, and his style simply didn’t fit with Fotheringay’s folk-influenced songs. He was replaced by American guitarist Jerry Donahue, who was not anything like as proficient as Lee, but who was still very good, and fit the band’s style much better. The new group rehearsed together for a few weeks, did a quick tour, and then went into the recording studio to record their debut, self-titled, album. Joe Boyd produced the album, but admitted himself that he only paid attention to those songs he considered worthwhile — the album contained one song by Lucas, “The Ballad of Ned Kelly”, and two cover versions of American singer-songwriter material with Lucas singing lead. But everyone knew that the songs that actually *mattered* were Sandy Denny’s, and Boyd was far more interested in them, particularly the songs “The Sea” and “The Pond and the Stream”: [Excerpt: Fotheringay, “The Pond and the Stream”] Fotheringay almost immediately hit financial problems, though. While other Witchseason acts were used to touring on the cheap, all packed together in the back of a Transit van with inexpensive equipment, Trevor Lucas had ambitions of being a rock star and wanted to put together a touring production to match, with expensive transport and equipment, including a speaker system that got nicknamed “Stonehenge” — but at the same time, Denny was unhappy being on the road, and didn’t play many gigs. As well as the band itself, the Fotheringay album also featured backing vocals from a couple of other people, including Denny’s friend Linda Peters. Peters was another singer from the folk clubs, and a good one, though less well-known than Denny — at this point she had only released a couple of singles, and those singles seemed to have been as much as anything else released as a novelty. The first of those, a version of Dylan’s “You Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere” had been released as by “Paul McNeill and Linda Peters”: [Excerpt: Paul McNeill and Linda Peters, “You Ain’t Goin’ Nowhere”] But their second single, a version of John D. Loudermilk’s “You’re Taking My Bag”, was released on the tiny Page One label, owned by Larry Page, and was released under the name “Paul and Linda”, clearly with the intent of confusing particularly gullible members of the record-buying public into thinking this was the McCartneys: [Excerpt: Paul and Linda, “You’re Taking My Bag”] Peters was though more financially successful than almost anyone else in this story, as she was making a great deal of money as a session singer. She actually did another session involving most of Fotheringay around this time. Witchseason had a number of excellent songwriters on its roster, and had had some success getting covers by people like Judy Collins, but Joe Boyd thought that they might possibly do better at getting cover versions if they were performed in less idiosyncratic arrangements. Donahue, Donaldson, and Conway went into the studio to record backing tracks, and vocals were added by Peters and another session singer, who according to some sources also provided piano. They cut songs by Mike Heron of the Incredible String Band: [Excerpt: Linda Peters, “You Get Brighter”] Ed Carter, formerly of The New Nadir but by this time firmly ensconced in the Beach Boys’ touring band where he would remain for the next quarter-century: [Excerpt: Linda Peters, “I Don’t Mind”] John and Beverly Martyn, and Nick Drake: [Excerpt: Elton John, “Saturday Sun”] There are different lineups of musicians credited for those sessions in different sources, but I tend to believe that it’s mostly Fotheringay for the simple reason that Donahue says it was him, Donaldson and Conway who talked Lucas and Denny into the mistake that destroyed Fotheringay because of these sessions. Fotheringay were in financial trouble already, spending far more money than they were bringing in, but their album made the top twenty and they were getting respect both from critics and from the public — in September, Sandy Denny was voted best British female singer by the readers of Melody Maker in their annual poll, which led to shocked headlines in the tabloids about how this “unknown” could have beaten such big names as Dusty Springfield and Cilla Black. Only a couple of weeks after that, they were due to headline at the Albert Hall. It should have been a triumph. But Donahue, Donaldson, and Conway had asked that singing pianist to be their support act. As Donahue said later “That was a terrible miscast. It was our fault. He asked if [he] could do it. Actually Pat, Gerry and I had to talk Sandy and Trevor into [it]… We'd done these demos and the way he was playing – he was a wonderful piano player – he was sensitive enough. We knew very little about his stage-show. We thought he'd be a really good opener for us.” Unfortunately, Elton John was rather *too* good. As Donahue continued “we had no idea what he had in mind, that he was going to do the most incredible rock & roll show ever. He pretty much blew us off the stage before we even got on the stage.” To make matters worse, Fotheringay’s set, which was mostly comprised of new material, was underrehearsed and sloppy, and from that point on no matter what they did people were counting the hours until the band split up. They struggled along for a while though, and started working on a second record, with Boyd again producing, though as Boyd later said “I probably shouldn't have been producing the record. My lack of respect for the group was clear, and couldn't have helped the atmosphere. We'd put out a record that had sold disappointingly, A&M was unhappy. Sandy's tracks on the first record are among the best things she ever did – the rest of it, who cares? And the artwork, Trevor's sister, was terrible. It would have been one thing if I'd been unhappy with it and it sold, and the group was working all the time, making money, but that wasn't the case … I knew what Sandy was capable of, and it was very upsetting to me.” The record would not be released for thirty-eight years: [Excerpt: Fotheringay, “Wild Mountain Thyme”] Witchseason was going badly into debt. Given all the fissioning of bands that we’ve already been talking about, Boyd had been stretched thin — he produced sixteen albums in 1970, and almost all of them lost money for the company. And he was getting more and more disillusioned with the people he was producing. He loved Beverly Martyn’s work, but had little time for her abusive husband John, who was dominating her recording and life more and more and would soon become a solo artist while making her stay at home (and stealing her ideas without giving her songwriting credit). The Incredible String Band were great, but they had recently converted to Scientology, which Boyd found annoying, and while he was working with all sorts of exciting artists like Vashti Bunyan and Nico, he was finding himself less and less important to the artists he mentored. Fairport Convention were a good example of this. After Denny and Hutchings had left the group, they’d decided to carry on as an electric folk group, performing an equal mix of originals by the Swarbrick and Thompson songwriting team and arrangements of traditional songs. The group were now far enough away from the “British Jefferson Airplane” label that they decided they didn’t need a female vocalist — and more realistically, while they’d been able to replace Judy Dyble, nobody was going to replace Sandy Denny. Though it’s rather surprising when one considers Thompson’s subsequent career that nobody seems to have thought of bringing in Denny’s friend Linda Peters, who was dating Joe Boyd at the time (as Denny had been before she met Lucas) as Denny’s replacement. Instead, they decided that Swarbrick and Thompson were going to share the vocals between them. They did, though, need a bass player to replace Hutchings. Swarbrick wanted to bring in Dave Pegg, with whom he had played in the Ian Campbell Folk Group, but the other band members initially thought the idea was a bad one. At the time, while they respected Swarbrick as a musician, they didn’t think he fully understood rock and roll yet, and they thought the idea of getting in a folkie who had played double bass rather than an electric rock bassist ridiculous. But they auditioned him to mollify Swarbrick, and found that he was exactly what they needed. As Joe Boyd later said “All those bass lines were great, Ashley invented them all, but he never could play them that well. He thought of them, but he was technically not a terrific bass player. He was a very inventive, melodic, bass player, but not a very powerful one technically. But having had the part explained to him once, Pegg was playing it better than Ashley had ever played it… In some rock bands, I think, ultimately, the bands that sound great, you can generally trace it to the bass player… it was at that point they became a great band, when they had Pegg.” The new lineup of Fairport decided to move in together, and found a former pub called the Angel, into which all the band members moved, along with their partners and children (Thompson was the only one who was single at this point) and their roadies. The group lived together quite happily, and one gets the impression that this was the period when they were most comfortable with each other, even though by this point they were a disparate group with disparate tastes, in music as in everything else. Several people have said that the only music all the band members could agree they liked at this point was the first two albums by The Band. With the departure of Hutchings from the band, Swarbrick and Thompson, as the strongest personalities and soloists, became in effect the joint leaders of the group, and they became collaborators as songwriters, trying to write new songs that were inspired by traditional music. Thompson described the process as “let’s take one line of this reel and slow it down and move it up a minor third and see what that does to it; let’s take one line of this ballad and make a whole song out of it. Chopping up the tradition to find new things to do… like a collage.” Generally speaking, Swarbrick and Thompson would sit by the fire and Swarbrick would play a melody he’d been working on, the two would work on it for a while, and Thompson would then go away and write the lyrics. This is how the two came up with songs like the nine-minute “Sloth”, a highlight of the next album, Full House, and one that would remain in Fairport’s live set for much of their career: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Sloth”] “Sloth” was titled that way because Thompson and Swarbrick were working on two tunes, a slow one and a fast one, and they jokingly named them “Sloth” and “Fasth”, but the latter got renamed to “Walk Awhile”, while “Sloth” kept its working title. But by this point, Boyd and Thompson were having a lot of conflict in the studio. Boyd was never the most technical of producers — he was one of those producers whose job is to gently guide the artists in the studio and create a space for the music to flourish, rather than the Joe Meek type with an intimate technical knowledge of the studio — and as the artists he was working with gained confidence in their own work they felt they had less and less need of him. During the making of the Full House album, Thompson and Boyd, according to Boyd, clashed on everything — every time Boyd thought Thompson had done a good solo, Thompson would say to erase it and let him have another go, while every time Boyd thought Thompson could do better, Thompson would say that was the take to keep. One of their biggest clashes was over Thompson’s song “Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman”, which was originally intended for release on the album, and is included in current reissues of it: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman”] Thompson had written that song inspired by what he thought was the unjust treatment of Alex Bramham, the driver in Fairport’s fatal car crash, by the courts — Bramham had been given a prison sentence of a few months for dangerous driving, while the group members thought he had not been at fault. Boyd thought it was one of the best things recorded for the album, but Thompson wasn’t happy with his vocal — there was one note at the top of the melody that he couldn’t quite hit — and insisted it be kept off the record, even though that meant it would be a shorter album than normal. He did this at such a late stage that early copies of the album actually had the title printed on the sleeve, but then blacked out. He now says in his autobiography “I could have persevered, double-tracked the voice, warmed up for longer – anything. It was a good track, and the record was lacking without it. When the album was re-released, the track was restored with a more confident vocal, and it has stayed there ever since.” During the sessions for Full House the group also recorded one non-album single, Thompson and Swarbrick’s “Now Be Thankful”: [Excerpt, Fairport Convention, “Now Be Thankful”] The B-side to that was a medley of two traditional tunes plus a Swarbrick original, but was given the deliberately ridiculous title “Sir B. McKenzie’s Daughter’s Lament For The 77th Mounted Lancers Retreat From The Straits Of Loch Knombe, In The Year Of Our Lord 1727, On The Occasion Of The Announcement Of Her Marriage To The Laird Of Kinleakie”: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Sir B. McKenzie’s Daughter’s Lament For The 77th Mounted Lancers Retreat From The Straits Of Loch Knombe, In The Year Of Our Lord 1727, On The Occasion Of The Announcement Of Her Marriage To The Laird Of Kinleakie”] The B. McKenzie in the title was a reference to the comic-strip character Barry McKenzie, a stereotype drunk Australian created for Private Eye magazine by the comedian Barry Humphries (later to become better known for his Dame Edna Everage character) but the title was chosen for one reason only — to get into the Guinness Book of Records for the song with the longest title. Which they did, though they were later displaced by the industrial band Test Dept, and their song “Long Live British Democracy Which Flourishes and Is Constantly Perfected Under the Immaculate Guidance of the Great, Honourable, Generous and Correct Margaret Hilda Thatcher. She Is the Blue Sky in the Hearts of All Nations. Our People Pay Homage and Bow in Deep Respect and Gratitude to Her. The Milk of Human Kindness”. Full House got excellent reviews in the music press, with Rolling Stone saying “The music shows that England has finally gotten her own equivalent to The Band… By calling Fairport an English equivalent of the Band, I meant that they have soaked up enough of the tradition of their countryfolk that it begins to show all over, while they maintain their roots in rock.” Off the back of this, the group went on their first US tour, culminating in a series of shows at the Troubadour in LA, on the same bill as Rick Nelson, which were recorded and later released as a live album: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Sloth (live)”] The Troubadour was one of the hippest venues at the time, and over their residency there the group got seen by many celebrities, some of whom joined them on stage. The first was Linda Ronstadt, who initially demurred, saying she didn’t know any of their songs. On being told they knew all of hers, she joined in with a rendition of “Silver Threads and Golden Needles”. Thompson was later asked to join Ronstadt’s backing band, who would go on to become the Eagles, but he said later of this offer “I would have hated it. I’d have hated being on the road with four or five miserable Americans — they always seem miserable. And if you see them now, they still look miserable on stage — like they don’t want to be there and they don’t like each other.” The group were also joined on stage at the Troubadour on one memorable night by some former bandmates of Pegg’s. Before joining the Ian Campbell Folk Group, Pegg had played around the Birmingham beat scene, and had been in bands with John Bonham and Robert Plant, who turned up to the Troubadour with their Led Zeppelin bandmate Jimmy Page (reports differ on whether the fourth member of Zeppelin, John Paul Jones, also came along). They all got up on stage together and jammed on songs like “Hey Joe”, “Louie Louie”, and various old Elvis tunes. The show was recorded, and the tapes are apparently still in the possession of Joe Boyd, who has said he refuses to release them in case he is murdered by the ghost of Peter Grant. According to Thompson, that night ended in a three-way drinking contest between Pegg, Bonham, and Janis Joplin, and it’s testament to how strong the drinking culture is around Fairport and the British folk scene in general that Pegg outdrank both of them. According to Thompson, Bonham was found naked by a swimming pool two days later, having missed two gigs. For all their hard rock image, Led Zeppelin were admirers of a lot of the British folk and folk-rock scene, and a few months later Sandy Denny would become the only outside vocalist ever to appear on a Led Zeppelin record when she duetted with Plant on “The Battle of Evermore” on the group’s fourth album: [Excerpt: Led Zeppelin, “The Battle of Evermore”] Denny would never actually get paid for her appearance on one of the best-selling albums of all time. That was, incidentally, not the only session that Denny was involved in around this time — she also sang on the soundtrack to a soft porn film titled Swedish Fly Girls, whose soundtrack was produced by Manfred Mann: [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “What Will I Do With Tomorrow?”] Shortly after Fairport’s trip to America, Joe Boyd decided he was giving up on Witchseason. The company was now losing money, and he was finding himself having to produce work for more and more acts as the various bands fissioned. The only ones he really cared about were Richard Thompson, who he was finding it more and more difficult to work with, Nick Drake, who wanted to do his next album with just an acoustic guitar anyway, Sandy Denny, who he felt was wasting her talents in Fotheringay, and Mike Heron of the Incredible String Band, who was more distant since his conversion to Scientology. Boyd did make some attempts to keep the company going. On a trip to Sweden, he negotiated an agreement with the manager and publisher of a Swedish band whose songs he’d found intriguing, the Hep Stars. Boyd was going to publish their songs in the UK, and in return that publisher, Stig Anderson, would get the rights to Witchseason’s catalogue in Scandinavia — a straight swap, with no money changing hands. But before Boyd could get round to signing the paperwork, he got a better offer from Mo Ostin of Warners — Ostin wanted Boyd to come over to LA and head up Warners’ new film music department. Boyd sold Witchseason to Island Records and moved to LA with his fiancee Linda Peters, spending the next few years working on music for films like Deliverance and A Clockwork Orange, as well as making his own documentary about Jimi Hendrix, and thus missed out on getting the UK publishing rights for ABBA, and all the income that would have brought him, for no money. And it was that decision that led to the breakup of Fotheringay. Just before Christmas 1970, Fotheringay were having a difficult session, recording the track “John the Gun”: [Excerpt: Fotheringay, “John the Gun”] Boyd got frustrated and kicked everyone out of the session, and went for a meal and several drinks with Denny. He kept insisting that she should dump the band and just go solo, and then something happened that the two of them would always describe differently. She asked him if he would continue to produce her records if she went solo, and he said he would. According to Boyd’s recollection of the events, he meant that he would fly back from California at some point to produce her records. According to Denny, he told her that if she went solo he would stay in Britain and not take the job in LA. This miscommunication was only discovered after Denny told the rest of Fotheringay after the Christmas break that she was splitting the band. Jerry Donahue has described that as the worst moment of his life, and Denny felt very guilty about breaking up a band with some of her closest friends in — and then when Boyd went over to the US anyway she felt a profound betrayal. Two days before Fotheringay’s final concert, in January 1971, Sandy Denny signed a solo deal with Island records, but her first solo album would not end up produced by Joe Boyd. Instead, The North Star Grassman and the Ravens was co-produced by Denny, John Wood — the engineer who had worked with Boyd on pretty much everything he’d produced, and Richard Thompson, who had just quit Fairport Convention, though he continued living with them at the Angel, at least until a truck crashed into the building in February 1971, destroying its entire front wall and forcing them to relocate. The songs chosen for The North Star Grassman and the Ravens reflected the kind of choices Denny would make on her future albums, and her eclectic taste in music. There was, of course, the obligatory Dylan cover, and the traditional folk ballad “Blackwaterside”, but there was also a cover version of Brenda Lee’s “Let’s Jump the Broomstick”: [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “Let’s Jump the Broomstick”] Most of the album, though, was made up of originals about various people in Denny’s life, like “Next Time Around”, about her ex-boyfriend Jackson C Frank: [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “Next Time Around”] The album made the top forty in the UK — Denny’s only solo album to do so — and led to her once again winning the “best female singer” award in Melody Maker’s readers’ poll that year — the male singer award was won by Rod Stewart. Both Stewart and Denny appeared the next year on the London Symphony Orchestra’s all-star version of The Who’s Tommy, which had originally been intended as a vehicle for Stewart before Roger Daltrey got involved. Stewart’s role was reduced to a single song, “Pinball Wizard”, while Denny sang on “It’s a Boy”: [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “It’s a Boy”] While Fotheringay had split up, all the band members play on The North Star Grassman and the Ravens. Guitarists Donahue and Lucas only play on a couple of the tracks, with Richard Thompson playing most of the guitar on the record. But Fotheringay’s rhythm section of Pat Donaldson and Gerry Conway play on almost every track. Another musician on the album, Ian Whiteman, would possibly have a profound effect on the future direction of Richard Thompson’s career and life. Whiteman was the former keyboard player for the mod band The Action, having joined them just before they became the blues-rock band Mighty Baby. But Mighty Baby had split up when all of the band except the lead singer had converted to Islam. Richard Thompson was on his own spiritual journey at this point, and became a Sufi – the same branch of Islam as Whiteman – soon after the session, though Thompson has said that his conversion was independent of Whiteman’s. The two did become very close and work together a lot in the mid-seventies though. Thompson had supposedly left Fairport because he was writing material that wasn’t suited to the band, but he spent more than a year after quitting the group working on sessions rather than doing anything with his own material, and these sessions tended to involve the same core group of musicians. One of the more unusual was a folk-rock supergroup called The Bunch, put together by Trevor Lucas. Richard Branson had recently bought a recording studio, and wanted a band to test it out before opening it up for commercial customers, so with this free studio time Lucas decided to record a set of fifties rock and roll covers. He gathered together Thompson, Denny, Whiteman, Ashley Hutchings, Dave Mattacks, Pat Donaldson, Gerry Conway, pianist Tony Cox, the horn section that would later form the core of the Average White Band, and Linda Peters, who had now split up with Joe Boyd and returned to the UK, and who had started dating Thompson. They recorded an album of covers of songs by Jerry Lee Lewis, the Everly Brothers, Johnny Otis and others: [Excerpt: The Bunch, “Willie and the Hand Jive”] The early seventies was a hugely productive time for this group of musicians, as they all continued playing on each other’s projects. One notable album was No Roses by Shirley Collins, which featured Thompson, Mattacks, Whiteman, Simon Nicol, Lal and Mike Waterson, and Ashley Hutchings, who was at that point married to Collins, as well as some more unusual musicians like the free jazz saxophonist Lol Coxhill: [Excerpt: Shirley Collins and the Albion Country Band, “Claudy Banks”] Collins was at the time the most respected female singer in British traditional music, and already had a substantial career including a series of important records made with her sister Dolly, work with guitarists like Davey Graham, and time spent in the 1950s collecting folk songs in the Southern US with her then partner Alan Lomax – according to Collins she did much of the actual work, but Lomax only mentioned her in a single sentence in his book on this work. Some of the same group of musicians went on to work on an album of traditional Morris dancing tunes, titled Morris On, credited to “Ashley Hutchings, Richard Thompson, Dave Mattacks, John Kirkpatrick and Barry Dransfield”, with Collins singing lead on two tracks: [Excerpt: Ashley Hutchings, Richard Thompson, Dave Mattacks, John Kirkpatrick and Barry Dransfield with Shirley Collins, “The Willow Tree”] Thompson thought that that album was the best of the various side projects he was involved in at the time, comparing it favourably to Rock On, which he thought was rather slight, saying later “Conceptually, Fairport, Ashley and myself and Sandy were developing a more fragile style of music that nobody else was particularly interested in, a British Folk Rock idea that had a logical development to it, although we all presented it our own way. Morris On was rather more true to what we were doing. Rock On was rather a retro step. I'm not sure it was lasting enough as a record but Sandy did sing really well on the Buddy Holly songs.” Hutchings used the musicians on No Roses and Morris On as the basis for his band the Albion Band, which continues to this day. Simon Nicol and Dave Mattacks both quit Fairport to join the Albion Band, though Mattacks soon returned. Nicol would not return to Fairport for several years, though, and for a long period in the mid-seventies Fairport Convention had no original members. Unfortunately, while Collins was involved in the Albion Band early on, she and Hutchings ended up divorcing, and the stress from the divorce led to Collins developing spasmodic dysphonia, a stress-related illness which makes it impossible for the sufferer to sing. She did eventually regain her vocal ability, but between 1978 and 2016 she was unable to perform at all, and lost decades of her career. Richard Thompson occasionally performed with the Albion Band early on, but he was getting stretched a little thin with all these sessions. Linda Peters said later of him “When I came back from America, he was working in Sandy’s band, and doing sessions by the score. Always with Pat Donaldson and Dave Mattacks. Richard would turn up with his guitar, one day he went along to do a session with one of those folkie lady singers — and there were Pat and DM. They all cracked. Richard smashed his amp and said “Right! No more sessions!” In 1972 he got round to releasing his first solo album, Henry the Human Fly, which featured guest appearances by Linda Peters and Sandy Denny among others: [Excerpt: Richard Thompson, “The Angels Took My Racehorse Away”] Unfortunately, while that album has later become regarded as one of the classics of its genre, at the time it was absolutely slated by the music press. The review in Melody Maker, for example, read in part “Some of Richard Thompson’s ideas sound great – which is really the saving grace of this album, because most of the music doesn’t. The tragedy is that Thompson’s “British rock music” is such an unconvincing concoction… Even the songs that do integrate rock and traditional styles of electric guitar rhythms and accordion and fiddle decoration – and also include explicit, meaningful lyrics are marred by bottle-up vocals, uninspiring guitar phrases and a general lack of conviction in performance.” Henry the Human Fly was released in the US by Warners, who had a reciprocal licensing deal with Island (and for whom Joe Boyd was working at the time, which may have had something to do with that) but according to Thompson it became the lowest-selling record that Warners ever put out (though I’ve also seen that claim made about Van Dyke Parks’ Song Cycle, another album that has later been rediscovered). Thompson was hugely depressed by this reaction, and blamed his own singing. Happily, though, by this point he and Linda had become a couple — they would marry in 1972 — and they started playing folk clubs as a duo, or sometimes in a trio with Simon Nicol. Thompson was also playing with Sandy Denny’s backing band at this point, and played on every track on her second solo album, Sandy. This album was meant to be her big commercial breakthrough, with a glamorous cover photo by David Bailey, and with a more American sound, including steel guitar by Sneaky Pete Kleinow of the Flying Burrito Brothers (whose overdubs were supervised in LA by Joe Boyd): [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “Tomorrow is a Long Time”] The album was given a big marketing push by Island, and “Listen, Listen” was made single of the week on the Radio 1 Breakfast show: [Excerpt: Sandy Denny, “Listen, Listen”] But it did even worse than the previous album, sending her into something of a depression. Linda Thompson (as the former Linda Peters now was) said of this period “After the Sandy album, it got her down that her popularity didn't suddenly increase in leaps and bounds, and that was the start of her really fretting about the way her career was going. Things only escalated after that. People like me or Martin Carthy or Norma Waterson would think, ‘What are you on about? This is folk music.'” After Sandy’s release, Denny realised she could no longer afford to tour with a band, and so went back to performing just acoustically or on piano. The only new music to be released by either of these ex-members of Fairport Convention in 1973 was, oddly, on an album by the band they were no longer members of. After Thompson had left Fairport, the group had managed to release two whole albums with the same lineup — Swarbrick, Nicol, Pegg, and Mattacks. But then Nicol and Mattacks had both quit the band to join the Albion Band with their former bandmate Ashley Hutchings, leading to a situation where the Albion Band had two original members of Fairport plus their longtime drummer while Fairport Convention itself had no original members and was down to just Swarbrick and Pegg. Needing to fulfil their contracts, they then recruited three former members of Fotheringay — Lucas on vocals and rhythm guitar, Donahue on lead guitar, and Conway on drums. Conway was only a session player at the time, and Mattacks soon returned to the band, but Lucas and Donahue became full-time members. This new lineup of Fairport Convention released two albums in 1973, widely regarded as the group’s most inconsistent records, and on the title track of the first, “Rosie”, Richard Thompson guested on guitar, with Sandy Denny and Linda Thompson on backing vocals: [Excerpt: Fairport Convention, “Rosie”] Neither Sandy Denny nor Richard Thompson released a record themselves in 1973, but in neither case was this through the artists’ choice. The record industry was changing in the early 1970s, as we’ll see in later episodes, and was less inclined to throw good money after bad in the pursuit of art. Island Records prided itself on being a home for great artists, but it was still a business, and needed to make money. We’ll talk about the OPEC oil crisis and its effect on the music industry much more when the podcast gets to 1973, but in brief, the production of oil by the US peaked in 1970 and started to decrease, leading to them importing more and more oil from the Middle East. As a result of this, oil prices rose slowly between 1971 and 1973, then very quickly towards the end of 1973 as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict that year. As vinyl is made of oil, suddenly producing records became much more expensive, and in this period a lot of labels decided not to release already-completed albums, until what they hoped would be a brief period of shortages passed. Both Denny and Thompson recorded albums at this point that got put to one side by Island. In the case of Thompson, it was the first album by Richard and Linda as a duo, I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight: [Excerpt: Richard and Linda Thompson, “I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight”] Today, I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight is widely regarded as one of the greatest albums of all time, and as one of the two masterpieces that bookended Richard and Linda’s career as a duo and their marriage. But when they recorded the album, full of Richard’s dark songs, it was the opposite of commercial. Even a song that’s more or less a boy-girl song, like “Has He Got a Friend for Me?” has lyrics like “He wouldn’t notice me passing by/I could be in the gutter, or dangling down from a tree” [Excerpt: Richard and Linda Thompson, “Has He got a Friend For Me?”] While something like “The Calvary Cross” is oblique and haunted, and seems to cast a pall over the entire album: [Excerpt: Richard and Linda Thompson, “The Calvary Cross”] The album itself had been cheap to make — it had been recorded in only a week, with Thompson bringing in musicians he knew well and had worked with a lot previously to cut the tracks as-live in only a handful of takes — but Island didn’t think it was worth releasing. The record stayed on the shelf for nearly a year after recording, until Island got a new head of A&R, Richard Williams. Williams said of the album’s release “Muff Winwood had been doing A&R, but he was more interested in production… I had a conversation with Muff as soon as I got there, and he said there are a few hangovers, some outstanding problems. And one of them was Richard Thompson. He said there’s this album we gave him the money to make — which was I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight — and nobody’s very interested in it. Henry the Human Fly had been a bit of a commercial disappointment, and although Island was altruistic and independent and known for only recording good stuff, success was important… Either a record had to do well or somebody had to believe in it a lot. And it seemed as if neither of those things were true at that point of Richard.” Williams, though, was hugely impressed when he listened to the album. He compared Richard Thompson’s guitar playing to John Coltrane’s sax, and called Thompson “the folk poet of the rainy streets”, but also said “Linda brightened it, made it more commercial. and I thought that “Bright Lights” itself seemed a really commercial song.” The rest of the management at Island got caught up in Williams’ enthusiasm, and even decided to release the title track as a single: [Excerpt: Richard and Linda Thompson, “I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight”] Neither single nor album charted — indeed it would not be until 1991 that Richard Thompson would make a record that made the top forty in the UK — but the album got enough critical respect that Richard and Linda released two albums the year after. The first of these, Hokey Pokey, is a much more upbeat record than their previous one — Richard Thompson has called it “quite a music-hall influenced record” and cited the influence of George Formby and Harry Lauder. For once, the claim of music hall influence is audible in the music. Usually when a British musician is claimed to have a music ha

WBCQ/The Planet airdate - 6/7/25 Interview conducted - 5/29/25 Welcome to Fluxedo Junction!. Each episode, we bring you the best music from all genres worldwide, and this episode, we'll be speaking with acclaimed violinist, composer, and vocalist Scarlet Rivera. Grammy-nominated Scarlet Rivera burned a hole in the fabric of rock history as a pioneer of the electric violin. While classically trained, Scarlet came to prominence as an integral part of Bob Dylan's 1975 Rolling Thunder Revue tour and the subsequent release of the legendary album Desire, which charted at number one and sold certified double platinum. She has also worked with many other of the world's most well-known artists, including Brandi Carlile, Emmylou Harris, Indigo Girls, Tracy Chapman, John Mayall, Keb Mo, Robbie Krieger, and Albert Lee. Her new album, Circle Back, will be released later this year, and she'll be performing in Roslyn, New York, on June 19 at the legendary venue My Father's Place. You can check her out on the web at www.scarletriveramusic.com

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for Episode 555 of the Chasing Tone Podcast -  The Wampler Cryptid is a beast of a fuzz pedal - and we try a super inexpensive compressor! Somebody has been hanging out with legends and it is not Brian this time and Richard stuffs his face as a result. He had been to see Albert Lee and was mightily impressed. He learned some interesting and encouraging tips by having front row seats and is excited to tell us about it and he is also inspired and may have found the fountain of youth before the caffeine kicks in.Have you ever heard about the Indian Tar Pit squid? It is a type of cryptid that inspired the concept for the all new Wampler Cryptid Fuzz pedal. The guys touch on it before Richard shoots off in a completely random direction because he has bought an incredibly cheap pedal. He is then confused by film ratings. The industry mourns the passing of a legend so the guys touch on it and Blake gives us a bit of history to add context. Brian discovers he was in a book and it took him by surprise and also did an interview with some folk from Richard's part of the world. Blake has to leave early and so the guys go on a deep dive into an inexpensive pedal brand and are really impressed. Tweed amp woes, Chainsaw juggling, We released a new fuzz, Hello Sailor, Germanium plans...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Awesome Course, Merch and DIY mods:https://www.guitarpedalcourse.com/https://www.wamplerdiy.com/Find us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the show

Derek Downham is an award-winning songwriter/producer. A formidable multi-instrumentalist, Derek has recorded and played live/toured with many of Canada's finest bands and artists. He has performed/recorded/written with (in no particular order): The Beauties, Gordon Downie, Don Felder (of The Eagles), Broken Social Scene, Andy Kim, James Burton, Albert Lee, July Talk, Alex Lifeson, Serena Ryder, Sarah Slean, Nels Cline, Redd Volkert, Cindy Cashdollar, Junior Brown, Kellie Loder, Jim Cuddy, Whitehorse, Sam Roberts, Lights, Paul Pigat, Amos Garrett, Brent Mason, Julian Taylor, Jeffery Straker, Freeman Dre, Hayden Neale, Sloan, Jason Collett, Kim Stockwood, Jully Black, Jeen O'Brien, Amy Millan, Colin Cripps, Ron Sexsmith, Justin Rutledge, Rik Emmett, Jeff Healey, Emm Gryner, Damhnait Doyle, Holy F*ck, Beans, Elliott Brood and many more. Contact Derek:Website: https://www.derekdownham.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/derekdownham/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/derekdownham This Episode is brought to you by..Go to BETTERHELP.com/apologue for confidential online counselling.use the code word Apologue for a 7 day free trial Checkout my YouTube Channel with long form interviews from the Subversives | the History of Lowest of the Low. A weekly release on Tuesdays .https://www.youtube.com/@simonhead666 Pledge monthly with Patreon https://www.patreon.com/apologueShop Apologue products at http://apologue.ca/shopCheck out new Four Square Here: https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/brighton-beach-ephttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/seven-oh-sevenhttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/industry-at-home--21st-anniversary-remix-remasteredhttps://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/foursquare/when-weeks-were-weekends

Send us a textCharles and Grham interview 10cc's Graham Gouldman ahead of his latest tour with his band, Heart Full of Songs.The band line-up comprises Graham, 10cc live band members Iain Hornal and Keith Hayman, and Dave Cobby.In 2014 Graham was inducted into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame – an arm of America's National Academy of Music. Fellow inductees include Noel Coward, Burt Bacharach, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Elton John and Sting.Graham's songwriting credits over the last 60 years include The Yardbirds, The Hollies, Herman's Hermits and 10cc. In 2024 Graham released a new solo album called I Have Notes which includes collaborations with Brian May, Ringo Starr, Hank Marvin and Albert Lee.Charles and Graham round off the episode with a quick discussion about the recent BAFTA Awards and the latest news about the planned National Poetry Centre.Keep in touch with Two Big Egos in a Small Car:X@2big_egosFacebook@twobigegos

Drew and Nate AKA Buckingheads talk about Albert Lee, JJ Cale, Rivers Cuomo and of course FLEETWOOD MAC

Send us a text “James Oliver is regarded as one of the finest players of the next generation.”-Jersey Evening PostJames Oliver is one of the UK's busiest acts playing over 300 gigs a year all over the UK, Europe, and the USA!He has performed over 3000 gigs and shared the stage with many acts including Albert Lee, Bill Kirchen, Deke Leonard, Greg Koch, Walter Trout, Steve Gibbons, Billy Bremner, Geraint Watkins, and many others.In 2020 James won the UK Blues Awards Emerging Artist of the Year and has since been nominated 3 additional times.James Oliver released 2 studio albums 3 live albums and his album Twang was #1 on Amazon Blues Charts for 3 weeks. James is currently working on a new record with legendary producer, John Leckie.“One of the UK's most revered and incredible next generation guitar masters”-Giles Robson (UK Blues Harp Legend)Become a plus member now: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribe Download the Triad Method: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/the-triad-method/Support the showTo get your hands on THE TRIAD METHOD: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/product/the-triad-method/Become a Blues Guitar Show Member: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribeHead over to www.thebluesguitarshow.com to subscribe to the mailing list

Chad Wackerman's professional career began in 1978 with the Bill Watrous Refuge West Big Band. Since then he has amassed a remarkable body of work including a seven year association with Frank Zappa, with whom he toured the USA and Europe and recorded 27 albums including the London Symphony recordings. He has also recorded 8 albums and toured with guitar legend Allan Holdsworth, played on the ‘One Voice' album and video with Barbra Streisand, and recorded albums and toured with artists as diverse as James Taylor, Steve Vai, Andy Summers, Steven Wilson, Men At Work, Ed Mann, Albert Lee, Colin Hay, Dweezil Zappa, Pasqua/Holdsworth/Haslip/Wackerman Group, Terry Bozzio, Carl Verheyen, David Garfield,John Patitucci, Jennifer Batten, Joe Sample, Robbie Kreiger, Banned From Utopia and The World Drummers Ensemble (Bill Bruford, Luis Conte, Dou Dou Ndiaye Rose and Chad Wackerman) . As a band leader and composer Chad has five critically acclaimed CDs: ‘Forty Reasons', ‘The View', ‘Scream', ‘Legs Eleven' and his latest release, ‘Dreams Nightmares and Improvisations'. Chad has written music for the television show ‘The Dennis Miller Show', as well as composing music for Allan Holdsworth's ‘Secrets', ‘Wardenclyffe Tower' and ‘Sixteen Men of Tain' CDs. His trio has a performance DVD, ‘Hits Live'. In this episode, Chad talks about:    Working with Allan Holdsworth    The amazing story behind recording Allan's record “Road Games”    “Improvising at the highest level sounds like composition”    Interpreting charts efficiently    Auditioning for Frank Zappa    How to make a band sound better    Learning from Murray Spivack    Figuring out what's important for each gig and artist

Cindy Cashdollar has been called the Wonder Woman of the Dobro, Lap Steel Guitar and Steel Guitar. She's a 5x Grammy winner for her work with Asleep At The Wheel. She's played with Paul Butteerfield and with Levon Helm and Rick Danko of The Band. She's performed with Bob Dylan, George Strait, Willie Nelson and others. Her latest album, Waltz For Abilene, features a slew of great guest artists including John Sebastian, Albert Lee and Amy Helm.My featured song is “My Love” from the album Bobby M and the Paisley Parade. Spotify link.---------------------------------------------The Follow Your Dream Podcast:Top 1% of all podcasts with Listeners in 200 countries!For more information and other episodes of the podcast click here. To subscribe to the podcast click here .To subscribe to our weekly Follow Your Dream Podcast email click here.To Rate and Review the podcast click here.“Dream With Robert”. Click here.—----------------------------------------“THE GIFT” is Robert's new single featuring his song arranged by Grammy winning arranger Michael Abene. Praised by David Amram, John Helliwell, Joe La Barbera, Tony Carey, Fay Claassen, Antonio Farao, Danny Gottlieb and Leslie Mandoki.Click HERE for all links.—-------------------------------------“LOU'S BLUES” is Robert's recent single. Called “Fantastic! Great playing and production!” (Mark Egan - Pat Metheny Group/Elements) and “Digging it!” (Peter Erskine - Weather Report)!Click HERE for all links.—----------------------------------------“THE RICH ONES”. Robert's recent single. With guest artist Randy Brecker (Blood Sweat & Tears) on flugelhorn. Click HERE for all links.—---------------------------------------“MILES BEHIND”, Robert's debut album, recorded in 1994, was “lost” for the last 30 years. It's now been released for streaming. Featuring Randy Brecker (Blood Sweat & Tears), Anton Fig (The David Letterman Show), Al Foster (Miles Davis), Tim Ries (The Rolling Stones), Jon Lucien and many more. Called “Hip, Tight and Edgy!” Click here for all links.—--------------------------------------“IT'S ALIVE!” is Robert's latest Project Grand Slam album. Featuring 13 of the band's Greatest Hits performed “live” at festivals in Pennsylvania and Serbia.Reviews:"An instant classic!" (Melody Maker)"Amazing record...Another win for the one and only Robert Miller!" (Hollywood Digest)"Close to perfect!" (Pop Icon)"A Masterpiece!" (Big Celebrity Buzz)"Sterling effort!" (Indie Pulse)"Another fusion wonder for Project Grand Slam!" (MobYorkCity)Click here for all links.Click here for song videos—-----------------------------------------Audio production:Jimmy RavenscroftKymera Films Connect with Cindy at:www.cindycashdollar.com Connect with the Follow Your Dream Podcast:Website - www.followyourdreampodcast.comEmail Robert - robert@followyourdreampodcast.com Follow Robert's band, Project Grand Slam, and his music:Website - www.projectgrandslam.comYouTubeSpotify MusicApple MusicEmail - pgs@projectgrandslam.com 

Send us a textToday I'm talking with a great up and coming blues player from the U.K - Thomas Heppell From the vibrant South Coast of the UK to stages across the nation, join Thomas as he crafts the next chapter in UK blues. With a style encapsulating the heart of Blues, the energy of Rock & Roll, and the sophistication of Jazz (sometimes if you're lucky), Thomas can command a solo stage or drive the rhythm in his dynamic three-piece ensemble. His musical journey has seen him share the limelight with established acts such as Albert Lee, Dan Patlanksy, Chicken Shack, Catfish, Alice Armstrong, Connor Selby, Brave Rival and The Cinelli Brothers. In 2022, he graced stages alongside household names like Anton du Beke of Strictly Come Dancing fame. He's also left his mark at illustrious venues and events such as The 100 Club,  Tuesday Night Club, Ronnie Scotts, Lincoln Jazz Cafe, Broadstairs Blues Bash, Swanage Blues Festival, and Weyfest. His EP, 'Be My Home', not only received airwaves love from Jazz FM and Blues Radio UK but also secured him nominations at the UK Blues Awards 2023. With nods for Best Young, Emerging, and Acoustic Blues Artist, it's evident Thomas is a force to be reckoned with in British Blues.Become a plus member now: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribe Download the Triad Method: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/the-triad-method/Support the showTo get your hands on THE TRIAD METHOD: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/product/the-triad-method/Become a Blues Guitar Show Member: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribeHead over to www.thebluesguitarshow.com to subscribe to the mailing list

The incredible guitarist Duke Levine joins me on the show today. Back in the 90's and early 2000's when I was just getting started, Duke was putting out all these really amazing twangy instrumental guitar records. He actually started out as almost a fusion guy on his first album, but pretty quickly veered off into this highly original guitar style that has elements of blues, jazz, country, bebop and influences like Roy Buchanan, Ray Flacke, Albert Lee, I hear Wes Montgomery and Jerry Reed in there as well. The first record I heard of his was called “Country Soul Guitar” and I feel like at that time, the early 90's, no one was really playing anything like that. He's primarily a tele player and just has an incredible touch and tone that makes him a totally unique player. He put out a couple more records in that vein, but pretty quickly got scooped up as a sideperson, playing guitar for artists like Shawn Colvin, Peter Wolf, J Geils, Bill Morrissey, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Slaid Cleaves, Jonatha Brooke, and eventually his current employer, the untouchable Bonnie Raitt. The hired gun gigs really became his bread and butter and he spent the better part of the last 25 years touring with alot of those folks. Duke came up in the New England club scene, and has basically stayed in the area his whole life. During the pandemic, he put out a string of really interesting videos featuring stellar guitar playing that you can watch, and some of those videos became what makes up his most recent and amazing EP “Left To My Own Devices”.You can get info on all of Duke's activities as well as his tour dates with Bonnie Raitt over at dukelevine.com - Enjoy my conversation with Duke Levine!This season is brought to you by our sponsors Larivée Guitars and Fishman AmplificationYou can join our Patreon here to get all episodes ad-free, as well as access to all early episodesThe show's website can be found at www.makersandshakerspodcast.com Get ad-free episodes and access to all early episodes by subscribing to Patreon. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

RUSSELL MORRIS BLOODSTONE   ARTISTS INCLUDE The Bee Gees, Neil Young, The Beatles, The Carpenters, Jesse Winchester, Eva Cassidy, and Van Morrison.   SENSATIONAL GUITARISTS INCLUDE Mark Knopfler (Dire Straits), Albert Lee, Kevin Borich/Dutch Tilders, Dickey Betts (Allman Bros), and Terry Kath (Chicago).   COPYCATS ARE COOL CATS! ORIGINAL VERSION— SON OF A PREACHER MAN ORIGINAL ARTIST—DUSTY SPRINGFIELD COVER VERSION — ARETHA FRANKLIN Presented by  James Gee as in, Gee, It's not my fault you let me go first, At the All-You-Can-Eat Buffett! wwwsingersongwritersandsensationalguitarists.com

Welcome to the premiere "Song Dive" bonus episode: a way to hear the story behind a song that has made (or will soon make) our collective mixtapes & playlists! On this "Song Dive" episode, I am joined by Guy Fletcher of Dire Straits, and we're talking about the story behind Mark Knopfler's Guitar Heroes' “Going Home (Theme From Local Hero),” which Guy produced. This new 10-minute rendition was recorded in aid of Teenage Cancer Trust and Teen Cancer America, and features over 60 musical legends on the track.  We also take some time to discuss tracks from Dire Straits' catalog including: Money For Nothing, Walk Of Life, Heavy Fuel & The Bug; working with “Weird Al” Yankovic on his Dire Straits' parody “Money For Nothing / Beverly Hillbillies;” recording the soundtrack for The Princess Bride; the experience of mixing Dire Straits' "Live At The Rainbow, London UK, 12/1979" album from the original tapes; Guy's accreditation as a Dolby ATMOS engineer and how that factored into the new Going Home mix; bringing ATMOS to households via the Airsound Spatial speaker technology; and so much more!  The full list of artists who appear on “Going Home (Theme From Local Hero)” are (in alphabetical order): Joan Armatrading, Jeff Beck, Richard Bennett, Joe Bonamassa, Joe Brown, James Burton, Jonathan Cain, Paul Carrack, Eric Clapton, Ry Cooder, Jim Cox, Steve Cropper, Sheryl Crow, Danny Cummings, Roger Daltrey, Duane Eddy, Sam Fender, Guy Fletcher, Peter Frampton, Audley Freed, Vince Gill, David Gilmour, Buddy Guy, Keiji Haino, Tony Iommi, Joan Jett, John Jorgenson, Mark Knopfler, Sonny Landreth, Albert Lee, Greg Leisz, Alex Lifeson, Steve Lukather, Phil Manzanera, Dave Mason, Hank Marvin, Brian May, Robbie McIntosh, John McLaughlin, Tom Morello, Rick Nielsen, Orianthi, Brad Paisley, Nile Rodgers, Mike Rutherford, Joe Satriani, John Sebastian, Connor Selby, Slash, Bruce Springsteen, Ringo Starr and Zak Starkey, Sting, Andy Taylor, Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks, Ian Thomas, Pete Townshend, Keith Urban, Steve Vai, Waddy Wachtel, Joe Louis Walker, Joe Walsh, Ronnie Wood, Glenn Worf, & Zucchero. A minimum of 50% of the proceeds from the single are being donated to Teenage Cancer Trust and Teen Cancer America. To purchase the 12" vinyl, CD or digital edition of the single, please visit: https://www.markknopflersguitarheroes.com/ Be sure to visit MyWeeklyMixtape.com to hear all of the songs we discussed in this episode, and join the My Weekly Mixtape Discord Server via the link on the main menu! FOR MORE ON MY WEEKLY MIXTAPE Website: http://www.myweeklymixtape.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/myweeklymixtape Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/myweeklymixtape Twitter: https://twitter.com/myweeklymixtape Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/myweeklymixtape TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@myweeklymixtape Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of OneHaas, entrepreneur, advisor, and investor Albert Lee shares his career journey from finance to the startup world and his invention of the app, MyFitnessPal.Born to Korean-immigrant parents, Albert grew up in a small town outside Albany, New York. His dad worked as a scientist at a research and development laboratory right next to Albert's high school – a school with a reputation for producing successful entrepreneurs.Albert chats with host Sean Li about co-founding the health app MyFitnessPal, why his approach to entrepreneurship has a lot to do with solving everyday problems, and how his time at Haas helped him reinvent himself. *OneHaas Alumni Podcast is a production of Haas School of Business and is produced by University FM.*Episode Quotes:On his unique high school experience “Our school actually, you know what's kind of crazy is, has a couple other very successful entrepreneurs that have gone through it. So prior to me, a guy named Colin Engel, who founded iRobot, the company that makes the Roomba, actually went to my high school. And after me, actually Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, went to my high school as well. So it's kind of this small high school in the middle of nowhere, but has this sort of background of being affiliated with all of these like inventors and scientists. And so there, I think it fostered some entrepreneurial activity.”On the invention of MyFitnessPal“My brother and my sister-in-law were getting married and they had decided to have a beach wedding in Mexico. And my brother was like, man, I am not in good shape. He's like, you know, I really want to look good for this wedding. So they went to a gym, they went to see a trainer, they started working out. And the trainer said, you know, it's great, this is definitely important to get him to a fitness plan. But if you really want to reach your goals before this wedding date, you're also going to have to think about what you're eating. And so the way that I want you to do that is to keep a food journal. And here it is. And he literally presented my brother with this, like, paper and pen diary plus, you know, a little reference guide that had some generic information about foods and calories…And so my brother took that. I think he felt like logically it made a lot of sense to do this thing, but just couldn't believe there wasn't a better way to do it.”On his approach to entrepreneurship“You can start very organically from your own experiences and say, okay, well, what is the stuff in everyday life that I'm doing, seeing, feeling that just doesn't feel quite right to me? You know, are there products that I'm using that I don't like? Are there experiences that I'm having that don't make any sense? And I think my brother and I had determined that the latter way of  trying to build something was much more aligned with how I think we think and we operate and how we feel motivation. And it comes a little bit from the selfish place, which is like, well, I have this problem and I kind of want to solve it, you know, and it doesn't look like anybody else is going to solve this. So I'm going to try to do it on my own.”On how his experience at Haas shaped his mindset“I think one of the magical things about being a business school student is sort of this, you get this kind of new identity where you are.  You're kind of something, but also nothing, you know?  And I don't mean that in a disparaging way, but it's sort of like you have this opportunity to sort of reinvent parts of who you are and expose yourself to a lot of different things. And just like immersing myself in a community of people who, many of whom had entrepreneurial aspirations, just completely changed my personal mindset.”Show Links:LinkedIn ProfileSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/onehaas/donations

I have been a fan of the AI-driven software Swingvision since I first tried it in 2021. Apple has featured it in its famous Keynote speeches, named it "App of the Day," and given it an Apple design award. Ex-pros Andy Roddick and James Blake have been early investors, and there are also backers like Jason Liu from Strava and Albert Lee from MyFitnessPal. I was excited to sit down with Swupnil Sahai, the CEO and co-founder, to discuss Swingvision's journey so far and its future.

We are solidly in the season, and Asians in Baseball stay hot! First, Masanori Murakami - the first ever Japanese player in MLB - throws out the first pitch at the Giants game, and we talk exceptionalism and burden of representation.  Then, position players are making moves: Bo Bichette goes 4-for-4, Christian Yelich steals home, and Corbin Carroll triples in two in a row! But in a sad twist of fate, Lee Jung Hoo's rookie season ends early following last week's shoulder injury.  And if you're watching good MLB pitching you're watching Asians in Baseball! Shota Imanaga and Yu Darvish make history, Yusei Kikuchi is dedicated to his off days, Yamamoto is rolling (shoving?!?!), Brennan Bernadino holds it down for the Red Sox bullpen, and Bryan Woo shakes off a scare in his first start with a solid W.  Finally, Ohtani continues to flex! He invites Albert Lee, a pediatric patient, to throw out the first pitch on his bobblehead night, finally gets the right sized suit to pull up to LA City Hall for Ohtani Day on 5/17 (but Kim has thoughts about his shirt choices), and caps it all off with his first walk off as a Dodger.  Toronto Life article about Kikuchi: https://torontolife.com/city/blue-jays-pitcher-yusei-kikuchi-day-off/ Yamamoto pitching overlay video: https://tinyurl.com/5n6dx74s --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/asiansinbaseball/message

Welcome to the premiere "Song Dive" bonus episode: a way to hear the story behind a song that has made (or will soon make) our collective mixtapes & playlists! On this "Song Dive" episode, I am joined by Guy Fletcher of Dire Straits, and we're talking about the story behind Mark Knopfler's Guitar Heroes' “Going Home (Theme From Local Hero),” which Guy produced. This new 10-minute rendition was recorded in aid of Teenage Cancer Trust and Teen Cancer America, and features over 60 musical legends on the track.  We also take some time to discuss tracks from Dire Straits' catalog including: Money For Nothing, Walk Of Life, Heavy Fuel & The Bug; working with “Weird Al” Yankovic on his Dire Straits' parody “Money For Nothing / Beverly Hillbillies;” recording the soundtrack for The Princess Bride; the experience of mixing Dire Straits' "Live At The Rainbow, London UK, 12/1979" album from the original tapes; Guy's accreditation as a Dolby ATMOS engineer and how that factored into the new Going Home mix; bringing ATMOS to households via the Airsound Spatial speaker technology; and so much more!  The full list of artists who appear on “Going Home (Theme From Local Hero)” are (in alphabetical order): Joan Armatrading, Jeff Beck, Richard Bennett, Joe Bonamassa, Joe Brown, James Burton, Jonathan Cain, Paul Carrack, Eric Clapton, Ry Cooder, Jim Cox, Steve Cropper, Sheryl Crow, Danny Cummings, Roger Daltrey, Duane Eddy, Sam Fender, Guy Fletcher, Peter Frampton, Audley Freed, Vince Gill, David Gilmour, Buddy Guy, Keiji Haino, Tony Iommi, Joan Jett, John Jorgenson, Mark Knopfler, Sonny Landreth, Albert Lee, Greg Leisz, Alex Lifeson, Steve Lukather, Phil Manzanera, Dave Mason, Hank Marvin, Brian May, Robbie McIntosh, John McLaughlin, Tom Morello, Rick Nielsen, Orianthi, Brad Paisley, Nile Rodgers, Mike Rutherford, Joe Satriani, John Sebastian, Connor Selby, Slash, Bruce Springsteen, Ringo Starr and Zak Starkey, Sting, Andy Taylor, Susan Tedeschi and Derek Trucks, Ian Thomas, Pete Townshend, Keith Urban, Steve Vai, Waddy Wachtel, Joe Louis Walker, Joe Walsh, Ronnie Wood, Glenn Worf, & Zucchero. A minimum of 50% of the proceeds from the single are being donated to Teenage Cancer Trust and Teen Cancer America. To purchase the 12" vinyl, CD or digital edition of the single, please visit: https://www.markknopflersguitarheroes.com/ Be sure to visit MyWeeklyMixtape.com to hear all of the songs we discussed in this episode, and join the My Weekly Mixtape Discord Server to join in the musical discussions: https://discord.gg/hhDQAnXasm FOR MORE ON MY WEEKLY MIXTAPE Website: http://www.myweeklymixtape.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/myweeklymixtape Discord: https://discord.gg/hhDQAnXasm Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/myweeklymixtape Twitter: https://twitter.com/myweeklymixtape Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/myweeklymixtape TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@myweeklymixtape Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chuck Marohn, the President and Founder of Strong Towns, joins me to talk about his newest book, “Escaping The Housing Trap: The Strong Towns Response to the Housing Crisis.” Along the way, we also discuss the upcoming Strong Towns National Gathering in Cincinnati, a different way cities can think about building and financing new sports facilities, and our different takes on the place-making of Disney World.If you have an interest in attending the National Gathering in May, I highly recommend it. Register at this link, and use this code for Discounts: KEVINK2024For some background on Walt Disney's history in Kansas City, check out Thank You Walt Disney.Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin's Substack page.Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you'd like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.Intro: “Why Be Friends”Outro: “Fairweather Friend”Episode Transcript:Kevin K (00:00.964)Welcome back to the Messy City podcast. This is Kevin Klinkenberg. I'm delighted today to have my friend Chuck Morrone on the show. Mr. Strong Towns, Chuck, it is so good to see you and I'm really excited to talk with you today.Charles Marohn (00:16.848)Hey, I'm really happy to be here. And here's the amazing thing. I listen to your podcast. You have a great voice for this. I mean, I have this horrible voice that people have grown used to. But when you turn on, you're like, hey, this is the messy city podcast. I'm like, yeah, man, you should be doing way more of this.Kevin K (00:37.38)Well, at least you didn't say that I have a great face for radio. So.Charles Marohn (00:40.72)Well, you and I both.Kevin K (00:44.484)Oh man, well, it's fun. You know, I'm still very much an amateur at the podcasting gig. And it's been fun to learn and experiment with it. You've been doing it for quite a while. And so I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you on this show. And we've got a couple of, a couple of fun topics, but in a couple of things that I think will get more serious and interesting as we go. And we'll just get through whatever we can get through. But.Charles Marohn (01:11.568)That sounds great. Well, you've been having all my friends on, you know, so like, yeah, here's Howard. I'm like, wait a sec. That was a blast. And then you had, you had Seth Zeran on recently. I'm like, that's really cool. So yeah, it's been fun. You know, I, I know you and I know, uh, you know, some, some of the ways that you think about things. And I really am. I love chatting with you, um, hearing you have these.Kevin K (01:15.172)I try to do that.Kevin K (01:19.076)Yeah.Yeah.Charles Marohn (01:38.704)fun conversations that we sometimes get to have in person. Hearing you have them with other people is just, it's a delight for me. So yeah.Kevin K (01:46.02)Well, that's very great, very flattering to hear. You know, it's one of the fun things you've probably experienced this too. One of the fun things about having a podcast is you get to choose who you want to talk to. And there's a lot of people that we know and we've all known for a long time that I get to learn so much more about. And for me, that's been one of the most enjoyable aspects of this is just getting to really know people's backstories a lot more. And so that's been a great pleasure.Charles Marohn (02:04.496)Sure.Kevin K (02:16.036)So.Charles Marohn (02:16.4)Yeah, yeah. Well, you you know everything about me, so we don't need to talk about.Kevin K (02:20.1)We know a lot about we know a lot about Chuck. Chuck, fortunately, shares his backstory a lot, although I'm sure there's tons we could get into. I'd rather save the time for some other topics, but you. You do have an awful lot going on right now in this moment, and I want to talk about a couple of those things. One is you have a book, a new book, the strong escaping the housing trap, the strong towns response. This is your.Charles Marohn (02:32.24)Yeah, it's the least interesting part.Kevin K (02:49.636)third book, right? Yeah, okay. Tell me a little bit about why an engineer wanted to write a book about housing.Charles Marohn (02:51.12)Yeah, yeah. Number three. Yep.Charles Marohn (03:01.52)Well, the reality of the story is that I, in the early days of writing the Strong Town's blog, was thinking about a book the entire time. I mean, I started writing this three days a week blog back in 2008, and to me, it was building up to a book. I had a couple publishing companies and agents contact me.And when I gave them my book proposal, it was just blah, blah, blah. It was, it was like 2000 word book. Like it didn't make sense. It was only when I got hooked up with Wiley publishing where we stepped back and we said, okay, this is actually multiple books, put this together in like the compilation of what you think it should be. And I said, well, I, I think I should write the book on finance first. I think I should write the book on transportation. Second, third would be housing. And then there's a couple others that are coming.And so we kind of agreed to a five book series that would kind of encapsulate the strong towns conversation. Housing happened to be the third. And the crazy thing about it is I didn't plan to release it in the middle of a housing crisis where everybody's talking about housing and housing's like on the lips of, you know, every political debate and every public policy conversation. It just so fortuitously happened that we're dropping our ideas in the middle of this kind of housing.you know, policy feeding frenzy right now. But.Kevin K (04:27.556)Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting aspect of that. I know obviously there's a long timeline to write a book anyway, to write it, get it published, edited, and all that sort of stuff. So I'm curious, like, what has changed in your mind from the point when you first started thinking about writing this book to actually getting it out today?Charles Marohn (04:48.624)It's, so Daniel Hergis and I co -wrote this, and I know you had him on a couple weeks ago. It was a really good conversation. The two of us, I think, encapsulate in our thinking the trap that we were trying to illuminate. Because I, we both went through the same graduate school program, and we both maybe took different things away from it. He was really focused on housing and kind of the,the mechanics of zoning and how the government has intervened in the housing market and all the kind of things that I would just put under an urbanist label. And for me, I was really fascinated with the financial side of the whole thing. That was the thing to me that when I was in grad school, I didn't think the housing people made any sense, quite frankly. You have to take some of that. And I was like, this is really dumb. I don't get it. AndI think I didn't get it because as an engineer, I was more plugged into the finance side. I spent a number of years just reading every book on finance that I could. I actually watched for like two years straight, I had CNBC on in my office. Not because I think CNBC is like a good channel or like has revealing things, but because the lingo that they use, the finance lingo that they use, I didn't understand.So when they said like MBS, like what is an MBS? It's a mortgage backed security. When they were talking about interest rate spreads and swaps, like I'm like, what the heck is that? Once I learned that language, to me the fascinating thing about housing was how it really is at its core downstream of the financial conversation that's going on in this country. So Daniel and I really tried to merge those two together, first in a set of insights that the two of us could agree on.and then in a narrative of the book that we could publish and share with the world.Kevin K (06:45.348)So, without giving away too much of the book, obviously we want people to go buy the book. And I think you can pre -order it right now, is that right?Charles Marohn (06:48.656)Yeah, yeah.Charles Marohn (06:55.248)Well, it's not like it's a murder mystery, you know, like I'll tell people the core insights, but you know, there's a lot of depth there beyond that. So.Kevin K (06:57.892)Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But maybe how about just tease out a couple of the key insights that you think are critical to share related to what the housing trap actually is.Charles Marohn (07:12.912)Well, the housing trap is the situation we've gotten ourselves in where housing as a financial product needs to go up in value. So the price of your house needs to go up for the economy to churn. But housing as shelter, when the price goes up, everything falls apart. Lots of people can't get into a house. If they get into a house, they're very financially strained. Once they're in a house, it's tough to move, take another job.So these two things compete against each other and they're both necessities. I mean, shelter is in Maslow's hierarchy of needs and we've literally structured our entire economy to where mortgage -backed securities, your house bundled with a bunch of other houses, sit as the bank reserves for every bank in the country. Housing prices can't go down. They have to go up financially. Housing prices can't go up. They must actually come down.for us to be able to function as a society. And that is the trap because both of those things are true at the same time.Kevin K (08:17.412)Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think probably the word of the decade has been financialized. And it seems like we've used that to discuss a lot of the foundation of the economic system we have today. And it certainly affects housing in all forms of real estate.Charles Marohn (08:23.76)Mm -hmm.Charles Marohn (08:35.184)Well, Daniel and I reached this understanding quite a while ago, I mean, way before we started working on the book, that if you if you look at the market for housing today, it represents the market of financial products. So when you see developers out building single family homes on the edge of Kansas City, what you're seeing is the manifestation of a financial instrument. The mortgage bundled with other mortgages.securitized, sold off as a mortgage -backed security. There's a lot of liquidity. There's a lot of money and capital put into that product because it's a really good financial product. When you see the five over ones being built, the one story of concrete with five stories of wood construction, whether it is an apartment building or a condo, whether it's a high -end condo or a mid -level condo, whatever it is, those also are financial products.Those are really easy to bundle with other similar structures from all over the country. Again, securitized, sold off, bought up by pension funds, put on the books of banks, all this stuff. What you don't see is you don't see the single family home converted to duplex. You don't see the single family home where we take the fourth bedroom that nobody's using and put it, make it an accessory apartment. You don't see the backyard cottage. You don't see the small 400, 600 square foot starter home.because there's no financial product for those things. But those are the products that if they were available in the local market would actually anchor the market at a lower price point and keep the rest of it from going crazy. And so the conclusion that we've come to is that we just need a policy to build not more single family homes and not more five over ones and more apartment buildings. We really need policies to build lots of this starter stuff.And the cool thing about it is that cities can do that on their own. They don't need federal grants and approvals. They don't need state support and funding. They actually have the capacity to really shift their local housing market, make it more locally responsive, and they can do it all on their own. They just have to do it with intention.Kevin K (10:50.436)Yeah, I think one of the things that you've talked about and written a lot about too is the notion of how after the financial crisis, 2008, 2010 or so, that the housing recovery in many ways has been kind of re -inflating a bubble. And I'm fascinated by this because obviously I'm not an economist, although I play one on TV. And it certainly seems like...Charles Marohn (11:07.248)Hahaha.Kevin K (11:17.604)the signs of stress that we've seen in the banking system even the last, let's say, year, year and a half, is putting a ton of pressure on the local community banks and continuing to centralize the banking system into larger and larger banks, including the four banks that are essentially protected by the federal government. So in essence, it kind of seems like we haven't really...At a federal level, we're almost doubling down on this approach that has given us these large products that we don't really like.Charles Marohn (11:53.84)There's no doubt that our strategy when housing starts to level off or go down, as in like 2007, 2008, when housing went down in price, our strategy is to pump more money into the top of the financial funnel in order to keep housing going in the other direction, in order to keep housing from falling. And so, yeah, you have this weird thing where every economist looks back at 2001 to 2008,And when you say housing, what they'll fill in the blank with bubble. They'll say, yes, it was a housing bubble. And you say, OK, well, in 2008, it started to go down a little bit. And then 2010, it hits bottom and it starts to go back up. And it's way, way higher than it is today than it was in 2008. That was a bubble. What is this? And they say, well, that's a housing recovery. Right. Like we recovered to a bubble and then beyond. This is.You know, I think we don't know all of the things that we will know after the next reset. Warren Buffett has the same. You don't know who's swimming naked till the tide goes out and the financial tide has not gone out yet. So we really don't know where the bodies are buried. But if you listen to financial news, you'll hear a lot of fretting over regional banks, commercial real estate.A lot of people when they hear commercial real estate think Walmart or strip mall or franchise restaurant or what have you. Those are certainly part of commercial real estate, but also part of commercial real estate is apartment buildings. You know, multifamily, multifamily buildings is a big part of commercial real estate. And those are financed with at least partially with short term financial products at local banks that have to be rolled over. And there is a huge incentive to extend and pretend.to pretend that they'll someday be rented out at high margins, at high prices. And that works when interest rates are low or very stable. But when interest rates rise, those financial products actually decrease in value, those bonds do. And so banks are less willing to, or less able to really pretend that...Charles Marohn (14:10.544)You know, the in the hundred unit apartment, the 50 units or 40 units that aren't rented will someday be rented at this really high rate. The bank can only pretend so much until, you know, the grim reaper of finance comes for them. And it kind of feels like for regional commercial banks, like that's going to be the shakeout that will make a lot of cascading things in the apartment market. Be very, very different six months, 12 months from now.Kevin K (14:39.684)Yeah, if I were to maybe tie together a couple of different things, one, you had a recent, one of your recent podcasts where you talked about, uh, this is an election year and you kind of went through, uh, this, which was great. I really enjoyed it. Uh, and, uh, I have long enjoyed the way that you have talk about politics and the sort of reframing of the top down versus bottom up, you know, instead of like left, right all the time. I think that's incredibly helpful to think about.Charles Marohn (14:49.808)Haha.Kevin K (15:09.764)But you mentioned, you kind of talked a little bit about the old Tip O 'Neill phrase and the all politics is local, you know, and how that shifted to all politics is national today. And I can't help but think about that in relation to like this real estate discussion and financing where real estate used to be hyper local and it feels more and more like all real estate is national in that respect in terms of how we plan, design and finance whatever is being built.Charles Marohn (15:40.4)I think that's a brilliant insight. To me, the question is, what is the price of the house sensitive to? And a lot of us think that it should be sensitive to the buyer's ability to pay, right? You have a product in the marketplace, there's someone coming to buy it. If that person can't afford it, the market will have to adjust and figure out, is it smaller units, is it smaller rooms, is it less appointment? What is it that will make thatunit affordable to the person buying it. But our market is completely insensitive to the ability of people to pay. What it is more sensitive to is the macroeconomic funding stream. If we can lower interest rates, if we can print money at the Fed and buy mortgage -backed securities, if we can create massive amounts of liquidity, if we can funnel this liquidity to hedge funds and others that will invest in single -family homes as rental products or in a commercial -backedreal estate, what we can do is we can really drive up the price. And so I think from a consumer standpoint, you have to ask, like, what is the product here? We think that the product is us buying a house where the consumer, the house is the product. But the reality is, is that that transaction is incidental to creating what the real product is, which is a mortgage or a commercial real estate certificate, something that can be bundled, can be securitized and sold off.That is what the market is sensitive to, not to your inability to pay. We are, in all sense, not the consumer, we are the product.Kevin K (17:18.436)Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And well, I suppose this topic, since the book is fresh or will be freshly out, will be a big center of discussion at the Strong Town's national gathering coming up in a couple of weeks.Charles Marohn (17:34.736)Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I know that I'm scheduled to do a little bit of housing discussion there. You know, the National Gathering is really we don't call it a conference. We don't call it we call it a gathering because it really is Strongtown's advocates from all over. I would say all over the country, but it's all over North America. And we've got people coming from around the world for this thing. It really is a chance for people to see and learn.what other people are doing bottom up to build strong towns. And housing is certainly part of that and will be part of the discussion. But a big, big emphasis of the gathering is just to, there's a phrase that I used last year that I'll probably talk about this year again, is just like, you're not alone. Being an advocate in a city can feel, you can feel very alone. Like you're the man or the woman against the machine. And the reality is, is that when people join together in a neighborhood,when they start to gather more people together with them, there's so much that can be done from the bottom up. It's really empowering to get these local heroes in a room, let them see each other, let them talk to each other, let them hear each other's stories. I feel like that's the most powerful part of the gathering, really.Kevin K (18:50.371)Yeah, yeah. Well, I certainly enjoyed it last year and then the first one you had a few years ago in Tulsa. And this one's coming up in Cincinnati, May 14th and 15th. It precedes the Congress for the New Urbanism and both are well, well worth attending. So I hope folks who are listening can get out. And if you get a chance to attend, that's great. If you can't look at it for next year, it's really a cool way to meet.Charles Marohn (19:03.055)Yep.Kevin K (19:19.556)people who are interested in the same things. I was really fascinated, Chuck, last year in Charlotte at the, I talked about this with a number of our CNU friends, the difference in the dynamic between the Strong Towns crowd and the CNU crowd. Seeing that like back to back was really fascinating. And it's completely and utterly anecdotal and just judging by what I saw. But I felt like there was a lot.Charles Marohn (19:30.64)Yeah.Kevin K (19:47.268)of energy in the Strong Towns room and Strong Town side of things. And generally speaking, a younger crowd and less, you know, like the senior crowd long has been focused on the design and building professions, architecture, engineering, planning, and the Strong Town, which is great. You know, it's fine. We need, we have to do that, but the Strong Towns crowd was really different. It was much more diverse in terms of the backgrounds of the people that were there.Charles Marohn (20:16.24)So you and I are, I'm gonna say I'm a little older than you, right? I'm 50 this year.Kevin K (20:20.836)No, I'm 54, my friend.Charles Marohn (20:24.112)Okay, okay, well, all right. I assumed I was a little older than you. You just look younger, that's what it is. You and I have been hanging out together at the CNU for many years. And I remember when I first started going, this was the place of super high energy, right? Like I would go, I would meet all these thinkers and all these people doing stuff. And we would like,Kevin K (20:30.436)It's just, I just kept my hair color longer, that's all.Charles Marohn (20:50.48)debate things in the hallway. And there was all these like side things going on. Remember in Salt Lake City, when we did the first debates, it was just this like crazy wild party of, and I say party, I don't drink. There was no like, this was a party of like intellect. Like it was just like electric in the air. I have, I have, I have been searching for that the last few years. I've been like, where's that? Like I want, I want to be in the room with that energy. And I showed up at,are gathering last year with high expectations, but really, you know, knowing, having been on the road and met with people, knowing that our movement had a lot of this bottom up energy, a lot of, you know, just very different people from people who are doing retail and like, I sell flowers and I, you know, have a bakery to people who are, I'm out building homes, I'm doing this stuff, I'm on a planning commission, I'm a mayor of a city.There really is a, when you say diverse, it's a crazy group of bottom up people all who self identify as like, I love my place. I want it to be better. I walked into that room at the opening last year and I'm like, this energy is out of this world. It's amazing. I'll give you a little like under the hood. I'mI wanted last year, like, let's get some music. There should be a party. Like we're having a party here. Like everyone's coming together. Let's get some music. And when I got there and like I had a thing where my daughter was graduating, like that was the week of her graduation from high school. And I could, I flew in at the last minute and I had to fly out right away. So it was just like the timing didn't work well for me, but I got there and like, we didn't have the music because like logistically it wasn't going to work and the sound system wasn't going to work and all that.And I kind of was like a little disappointed. I'm like, Oh, I don't, I don't, I kind of want the vibe to be up here. I walked in the room and the vibe was up here. And I'm like, if we would add music, like they would have blown the roof off this place. It would have been a little too crazy because people were amped. They were excited. Um, I have been re I've been assured that this year there will be music. So we'll see what, we'll see what happens in Cincinnati. If we can, uh, yeah, get, uh, get things even more, uh, more excitement, let's say.Kevin K (22:53.284)Yeah.Kevin K (23:02.564)Oh good.Kevin K (23:11.364)Yeah, well, I look forward to that. I mean, I think like you, I have, you know, it used to be like the CNU, we would come back from a CNU and the adrenaline rush was so crazy that for like a month afterwards, all you could do was think about the stuff that you heard and talked about and you're like, we've got to do X, Y, and Z now. And, you know, I honestly haven't felt that rush in quite a while with CNU. Part of that might just be that I'm getting older and...It's harder for me to feel that and things change. But there's definitely, I love the excitement of the debate and the discussions and seeing a lot of younger people there I think is really cool. So kudos to you guys and hope it continues.Charles Marohn (23:57.488)Thank you. Thank you. It definitely will. We're committed to it. And, you know, I mean, this thing is going off here in a couple of weeks and we're almost full. So, I mean, we've sold hundreds of tickets, people flying in from all over. It will be, it will be, it will be really cool.Kevin K (24:08.164)Yeah, good.Kevin K (24:17.092)All right, well, let's shift and talk about something a little more lighthearted, perhaps. But I want to talk, first, let's talk about baseball, something that both of us share an interest in, both American League Central Division fans of different teams. And obviously, there's a rivalry. But honestly, there isn't really much of a rivalry because both teams are never good at the same time.Charles Marohn (24:24.464)All right.Charles Marohn (24:43.152)Who do you like legitimately consider your top rival?Kevin K (24:47.076)Well, I think for years, the weird thing is it was like the Cardinals, right? But they're not even, but they're National League. Right, so when interleague play started, I think that became a really, really big deal and those games were enormous in both cities. It's tapered off a lot and it's probably, you know, the Cardinals have been such a great organization for so long, they probably kind of laugh about it amongst themselves.Charles Marohn (24:51.312)Okay, right, they're not even in your division, right?Charles Marohn (25:03.248)Yeah, yeah.Charles Marohn (25:12.976)Sure.Kevin K (25:14.468)Uh, so, uh, any more, I don't know, you know, when I was growing up, um, it was the Yankees, it was the Royals and the Yankees. Um, because in the seventies, the Royals had those great teams that won the division every year, 76, 77, 78, and then went to the playoffs and just like lost to the Yankees every year. And, uh, finally turned around in 1980 and won it and world went to the world series. But.Charles Marohn (25:21.104)Okay. Yep.Kevin K (25:41.732)So for years there actually was a pretty fierce rivalry between the Royals and the Yankees, but that was again not in the same division. So it was a little odd.Charles Marohn (25:50.8)We share this in common because the twins, I think we, I mean, we did have the record of all sports for most consecutive playoff losses. And losing consecutively in baseball games is hard to do because you, even, you know, even coming in with mismatched teams, you've got a like 40 % chance of winning statistically any game. So the idea, I think we lost 17 or 18 in a row post -season and almost all of those were to the Yankees. And so we had a deep,Kevin K (26:04.228)Yeah.Charles Marohn (26:20.912)I mean, I told my daughter growing up, you know, she's two years old. And I said, in this family, we don't hate anybody, but we do hate the Yankees. So that's, that's an acceptable, but for me in the division, it's the white Sox. Like I, I'm not a fan of Cleveland. I, I don't really care about Detroit all that much. I gotta say Kansas city does not, like I don't get, you know, foaming at the mouth when we're playing Kansas city, but.Kevin K (26:29.38)Ah yes.Charles Marohn (26:49.712)When we play Chicago, the White Sox, I like go ahead and hit every ever the batter like I don't care. Like I'm I don't like those guys.Kevin K (26:56.868)Yeah. Yeah. And the White Sox, they just have every misfortune. I mean, come on. I think ever since they tore down Old Kamisky, it's been like a curse on that team. So speaking of, go ahead.Charles Marohn (27:06.192)Yeah. Yeah. Well, I took, let me, let me tell this story real quick. Cause this will solidify Chicago for me. I took Chloe, my oldest, she came, I was speaking in Chicago once and she, she's probably like five or six young kid. We rode the train, the Amtrak to Chicago and we were just there for a couple of days. I spoke at this conference. The White Sox were playing a game.And so we went to the game because she likes baseball, you know, dad and daughter go in the game. We showed up. She wanted to wear her twins jersey because, you know, the twins weren't playing. It was the White Sox versus some other team. I don't even remember. We walked in to sit down. Little girl with a cute little pink twins jersey on. People started booing her and yelling at her like literally like she started crying. She felt bad. I'm like, these people don't deserve this kid. This is the White Sox. I hate you guys.Kevin K (27:52.164)Oh my god.Charles Marohn (28:01.296)I'm sorry I came to your dumb stadium with my beautiful daughter. Get lost. So.Kevin K (28:06.02)Well, it is their punishment for tearing down a nice stadium, building a horrific one, having a lousy owner. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was probably the worst new baseball stadium built in that entire era. So speaking of new stadiums, one of the things I just want to chat with you about and get your perspective on is we are having a big debate here locally regarding baseball stadiums because the Royals ownership.Charles Marohn (28:11.984)Yeah, it was a bad stadium. Yeah. Yeah.Kevin K (28:34.884)which is a new ownership group. They bought the team, I guess, three years ago, local people led by John Sherman. They want to build a new park. They want to leave Kauffman Stadium and build a new park in the downtown area. And which in theory, you know, I'm, I and many other people are like, great, let's do it. Sounds awesome. But, you know, obviously we're having this kind of age old debate about,how to finance and build a stadium. And in a smaller market like Kansas City, that comes with fairly large public subsidy one way or another. And the projects themselves just balloon in size incredibly. So we're talking instead of a baseball stadium that might be, I don't know, let's say $600 million, now it's a stadium in a district that's two billion.And the public is expected to underwrite a significant share of that. So there's, you know, we have this, we, there's been this knowledge within our world for years that a lot of us, the economics of this are just kind of silly, but how the, how the hell do cities escape this discussion and this trap? Because I'm completely mystified as how we ever get out of the situation where we are subsidizing major league franchises.Charles Marohn (30:04.784)I have some weird thoughts on this. And yeah, I don't think that, I think that people who are gonna hear this and I'm probably just gonna make like everybody angry. Because I do have like very strange thoughts on this. So let's go out to the edge of Kansas City where the DOT and the city are actively building interchanges because they wanna get more development.Kevin K (30:06.692)please share.Charles Marohn (30:32.816)What I find frustrating about that, when you go build an interchange and you've got on ramps and off ramps on the highway, you're in a sense robbing the highway capacity, right? Because an interchange creates friction and slows down traffic and all that. In order to get the development on the side of the highway, the frontage roads, the interchange, all the big box stores and all the stuff that will go there, and then the housing subdivision that will go adjacent to that.The act of building that interchange makes multimillionaires out of a bunch of randos out in the middle of nowhere. It might be the guy who like inherited it from someone who inherited it or someone from inherited it like. And that's probably the most palatable. What generally happens is someone by bought it from him a decade ago and like a land speculator just sat on it and then worked with the D .O .T. to get it developed. But either way, it's a massive cash transfer from the public.to private property owners. And I have always said, if we're gonna do that, we should do one of two things as a public. We should go out and buy up all that land around where the interchange is gonna be. I'm thinking like a mile in each direction. You know, we should buy that ahead of time at pre -interchange rates. We should build the interchange and then the interchange makes the land more valuable.We should then sell the land back to the market at that higher rate and use that amount to pay for the interchange. That or a more conventional way to do it would be to do a special assessment, which cities do all the time when they're out building sewer and water, they special assess the whole thing.I'm cognizant of the fact that like the Colosseum in ancient Rome was not built in order to get ancient Rome. Like ancient Rome was what it was. And then wealthy patrons came in and said, I want everybody to think I'm awesome. So I'm going to build this Colosseum and, you know, deck it all out and do all that. I feel like our stadiums are, in a sense, the same thing. And if I were a city.Charles Marohn (32:41.36)working with some very rich people to try to build what is in a sense a monument to them and their play thing, this major league baseball team. I would want to use the tools of either imminent domain and development, or I would want to use the tools of special assessment to recoup my part of the investment. Because if I'm gonna build a baseball stadium,I want it to be Wrigley field in terms of the intensity of the development around it and what that actually means to the land values in its vicinity. If I'm going to build, I can't remember what the Atlanta one is called. I hate that state, the new Cobb field or something like that. It's a junk park. Like it might be a nice place, but I like, don't like anything about its development. Even, um, you know,Kevin K (33:21.028)the new one.It's truest. Is it truest park? Yeah.Charles Marohn (33:36.112)Target Field, which is like one of my, I think Target Field is my favorite park and I'm biased obviously, Minnesota Target Field. But I think it's a great park. I think the way they financed it is really backward. And the development around it has trailed the park by 10 to 15 years because we didn't have the right kind of financial.I'm going to use the word incentives, but I don't mean giveaways. I mean, incentives by like now you've got a $10 million special assessment in this land. You better build something that's a hundred million dollars on it or, you know, you're going to pay a high tax rate year after year after year. You got to make use of this property. We didn't have everybody's incentives aligned when we made the big public investment. And so we didn't get the private investment out of it that we should have got. That's.I could buy into stadiums if we actually had that mindset because then the public is not only going to recoup their investment ultimately, but you're going to get a really nice product at the end.Kevin K (34:44.804)Yeah, I think that's a really interesting way to think about it. And unfortunately, I don't think we don't really have public officials who think about it that way. Yeah. Well, yeah, we don't have the stomach for it. And it's a good point.Charles Marohn (34:53.36)the stomach for it? I mean, Chuck says, imminent domain, everything within a mile. I mean, that's crazy. But if you were responsible with your finances, you would do a special assessment.Kevin K (35:08.932)Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of logic to that. And maybe you don't even recover all of the public investment, but you could recover a substantial portion of it. Who knows?Charles Marohn (35:20.72)What I think you can, I think you recover some of it upfront, right? Like you can, you can have your upfront and then you'll have the after effect of basically having the incentives aligned where people will then develop and then you will collect the rest of it in terms of long -term taxes. I mean, I, I've watched Kansas city Joe, our friend, Joe Mancosi did some, some analysis of tax increment financing deals that Kansas city's done that would make your stomach churn. I mean, just giving away.tens of millions of dollars to the most ludicrous kind of things that will never cashflow. I've watched Kansas City build monstrosity things out on the edge of town and call it growth and call it public investment when the city's guaranteed to lose money on every single one of these things. You don't even need more than a napkin analysis to figure that out. It makes me sad. I would, if, if Kansas City were to become more sophisticated about the public purse, I think they could build a stadium.responsibly, but they can't do it without, you know, in a sense, demanding that everyone who's going to get rich on it contributes proportionately to what is being built.Kevin K (36:28.74)Yeah, yeah, I like that. I mean, it seems to me almost like it's sort of a third way thought, you know, thought pattern about it because as I tried to talk to people locally about it here, unfortunately with the reality of sports and sports economics today, like a city the size of Kansas City, you're just not going to build a new facility without public investment in it. It's just not going to happen or you're going to lose the teams. And that sucks, but that's where we are.Charles Marohn (36:55.408)Did New York, didn't New York have public subsidy on their ZO2? I mean, I'm.Kevin K (37:00.612)I think they might have. I know in San Francisco when the Giants built their new stadium, they built it all themselves. And I can't remember some of the new football stadiums they have. Yeah. Yeah.Charles Marohn (37:10.704)I know the 49ers, the 49ers got a huge subsidy on theirs. So, I mean, you're like, I'm with you because you and I are both told that we're mid -market teams, you know, and you've suffered the trauma. No, I was going to say you've suffered the trauma of having a football team lead, but that was St. Louis that had the football team lead. That wasn't Kansas City. You guys have the glorious football team.Kevin K (37:30.308)That was St. Louis, yeah. Uh -huh. Nope.We do. We had a baseball team leave, but that was before I was born. So the Kansas City A's. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we lost an NBA team and an NHL team in my life.Charles Marohn (37:40.048)Okay, so that that trauma is is gone.Charles Marohn (37:47.984)Really? What was your NBA team? I don't remember that.Kevin K (37:50.276)It was the Kansas City Kings. They went to Sacramento. Yeah, in the 80s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, at one point we were the smallest city in the country that had all four major sports leagues.Charles Marohn (37:53.104)Sacramento, no kidding. I did not know that. Huh. Huh. Um.Charles Marohn (38:05.52)We've been told that that Minnesota can't support four because we're too small for that. And there's always the, you know, I feel like it's one of those things where each team can kind of threaten to leave because they're the we're the fourth one that can't be supported without a public stadium. Yeah, it here's here's so you have a you have a background in architecture. Here's what I struggle with with stadiums. I feel like.And I'll say this even about my beloved target field. We don't build stadiums that will be around to be excavated in the future. Like the Roman Coliseum, we can look at and we can see this grandeur and like it's been there thousands of years. We don't build anything that isn't in a sense, it might have a nice fancy facade and it might be nice. And we've used some decorative brick to make it look good.But the reality is, is like, like we just built a plastic band box with some good veneer on it that looks cool. And I like the dimensions, but these aren't like massive public investments meant to endure beyond really a generation. Right? I mean, am I, am I misunderstanding something about how we build these things?Kevin K (39:25.38)Well, I think there was an era where they were built differently. I think that's probably more commonly the case now. I mean, even Kauffman Stadium is a pretty incredible structure in and of itself. There were a lot of impressive structures, though, built in that era in the 60s now that basically are all gone. They're all torn down and replaced. It seems more like they're thought of more like a consumer product.Charles Marohn (39:48.4)Yeah. Yeah.Kevin K (39:55.076)now that is like you build these stadiums and they're wildly expensive and they're huge, but essentially they're built to last maybe two generations. And then we're looking to either completely overhaul it or replace them.Charles Marohn (39:55.888)Yeah!Charles Marohn (40:11.952)Well, I realized that the Metro Dome, which the Metro Dome was a special case product where we built the dumbest stadium at the end of the dumb stadium era. And like, I think the year after we built the Metro Dome or two years later, Camden Yards was built and everyone had buyer's remorse right away. But, you know, you're talking about a stadium that at the 18 year mark.They said needs to come down and we're going to contract this team and actually have fewer baseball teams because of this bad stadium. We got target field in 08 or 09 somewhere in there. I think somewhere in that range. So, you know, the the the Metrodome era lasted 24, 25 years. And I remember that like the roof caved in on it and like you blew it like no one was sad really to see it go because it was really like a plastic box.It seemed to me like it's a consumer good, like it's just designed. And I wonder if, because Wrigley Field, you know, say you could tear that down and rebuild it in place, right? I don't know what it would take to do that. I mean, people would flip out if you did that. They're going to maintain it till it can't be maintained anymore. But.there's really no question of where the Chicago Cubs will play. And I don't think that's because it's iconic as much as it is embedded in this ecosystem around it. You know, so to I'm sorry, Kevin, to me, the key to having a good public stadium investment would be that you have to actually grow the ecosystem around it. So there's some codependency. So that thing actually like could never leave again.Kevin K (41:45.7)Yeah, yeah.Kevin K (42:03.428)Yeah, as our as our friend, Philip Bess would say, he wrote a great, great little book called City Baseball Magic, which actually was a study of what the White Sox should have done when they replaced Comiskey Park. But he talked about it's just the best ballparks are neighborhood ballparks. It would then emphasis on the neighborhood park. So check out one fun little bit of baseball park trivia for you.Charles Marohn (42:24.784)Yeah.Kevin K (42:30.436)One of the very first projects I worked on as a young architect right out of college was at the Metrodome. You remember at one point they put in these big vertical screens to block off parts of the seats. Yeah, to block off part of the seats to make it look more full for different events. I did that. It was a ridiculous project.Charles Marohn (42:30.8)Uh oh.Charles Marohn (42:44.336)The baggy? Yeah, the baggy.Uh huh. Uh huh.man, I hated you then. Because it was so weird because what it was, the Metrodome was built like a football stadium and then they overlaid this baseball stadium within it. And I had season tickets for a while. My brother and I, when I was in grad school, I got them. We went up, the twins had been historically bad for many years and they were selling season tickets at an event. And my brother and I said, well, let's...Let's go look at them. If we can get front row seats, we'll do it. Well, we got front row seats down by the tunnel where they come out for the football game. So it was like by the bullpen. It wasn't it wasn't by the dugout or anything. It was like maybe like what would be in the corner today. But front row is front row. I mean, they were really cool. Like we were right there. You could yell at the right fielder and talk to the guys in the bullpen. It was it was awesome. The problem was you were facing the 50 yard line.which was like center field. So if you wanted to watch the game, you had to like crane your head over the left to actually see the game going on. Those when those banners went up, I think the what you tell me, I feel like the thing was to try to make it feel less empty because you took out like 20 ,000 seats by by putting up this big curtain to say, hey, it's not as empty and it's a little more intimate. Yeah, it didn't work.Kevin K (44:12.164)Yep. Mm -hmm.Kevin K (44:22.148)It was a funny deal. Just the sort of project you give a young architect to work on.Charles Marohn (44:22.288)Hahaha!Charles Marohn (44:28.88)So did you, you came up to the metronome and like, you know, what was your level of involvement with?Kevin K (44:33.988)The funny thing on that, I was just the kid in the office doing the drawing work, so I didn't actually go get to do a site visit for any part of it. But when I was a little kid growing up in Albert Lee, I mean, we went to the Metrodome a lot. I have a lot of great memories of going to games at the Metrodome.Charles Marohn (44:38.352)Sure, sure.Charles Marohn (44:49.648)Now hang on a sec, you're not Minnesotan, are you?Kevin K (44:52.836)No, not really. We lived in Albert Lee.Charles Marohn (44:55.536)Okay.I mean, I like you, I like you, and you have some positive characteristics about you. I didn't want to automatically attribute them to being Minnesotan, but now things are falling into place.Kevin K (45:05.54)No, we lived in Albert Lee for eight years. And yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. And it was when I was a, you know, elementary school kid and junior high. So, you know, those are great years and great, great memories. My parents, I think my parents really were happy to get out. They thought it was way too cold and, you know, they weren't, they weren't too fond of that. But well, I was a kid. I was a kid. I didn't, you know,Charles Marohn (45:09.68)OK, OK, so you got a little of the vibe.Charles Marohn (45:21.456)Yeah, yeah.Charles Marohn (45:31.376)You didn't think it was too cold though, did you? Cause you're, yeah, bring it on.Kevin K (45:36.548)So, last thing I just wanna kind of touch on a little bit, cause it's a fun topic is you've been, you've shared a lot in many podcasts about your love for Disney World and your enjoyment of Disney World. And I just wanna touch on this a little bit. And I've probably like, you know, thinking way too deeply about all this stuff, but we took our kids there, I guess it was about a year and a half ago. I have actually no experience with Disneyland in California, just Disney World in Florida.Charles Marohn (45:47.824)Yeah.Charles Marohn (46:04.752)Mmm.Kevin K (46:05.7)And of course we had a fantastic time. It was absolutely magical for the kids for the age they were. And everything about it was really, really nice. And I just want to talk a little bit about it because it's fascinating to think about because if you could think about like the un -strong towns, it would be like Walt Disney World. It's...you know, if you think about the most incredible, or at least this was the thought I had at the time. If you thought about something that was like the most top -down, large enterprise you could conceive of, it's Disney World. And yet we both really, really enjoy it and find a lot to admire. And I wonder if you could maybe expand on that a little bit or talk about it.Charles Marohn (46:40.912)Absolutely.Charles Marohn (46:51.984)Well, let's start with this. I think the thing that I have always loved from the time that I was, I think 13 was the first time that my family went up until today, is that it is some of the best designed urban spaces in America. If you want to experience, you know, you and I hang out with a crowd.where there's actually a debate over, do you like your urbanism gritty or do you like it fake? And there's a whole strain of people who like, if I can't smell urine in the street, it's not a real city. And I'm from a small town. I actually like things nice. So the idea of going to Disney World and riding transit and having it be beautiful and comfortable and fun, the idea of not having a car and going to places and walking around and...Yeah, there's a lot of other people there, but it's so well designed and proportioned. And the hyper attention on the human experience, not just standing, how you stand in line and wait, but how you actually get the transition from one place to another, to another. You know, like the sight lines that you have and the smells, like all of this, the music, as someone who is an auditory person,The idea that you would walk between different places and the music would not clash with each other as you would go from one place to another, but actually blend. I try to explain this to my wife decades ago and I didn't do a very good job. I said, it's comforting to me because it's so well designed. I used to take my, when I ran my own planning and engineering firm, I used to take my team down to just show them.Here's what good urban design looks like. And like, let me look at the way these buildings are proportioned and laid out. Look at where they've done with the lighting. Look at this. It wasn't like we were going to come back to Brainerd, Minnesota and build Disney World. But my gosh, you look at the lights we put in the park, they're just like ugly street lights because, oh, we need light here. The attention to detail is so deep and thorough. And the stories are just legend of like, you know.Charles Marohn (49:10.416)They would they would put a tree in a spot and what would come and he'd look at him and be like, oh, geez, I should be three feet over this way. And be like, why should it be three feet? Well, look at like here's where it blocks this view and that like this and that. And then he'd walk away and they go, we had to move the tree three feet because now I'll never be able to walk by this and see it that way again. Our cities. Could spend way less money and be vastly more beautiful if we had just.a tiny bit of the understanding of urban design that like the base Imagineer has. And I think that is the thing that, you know, it is Disney World is not meant to endure. It is. I mean, they call it a stage. You're on stage when you're there at the park. It is, you know, like a stage in a theatrical production. It's false fronts. It's like not.Not like super high quality construction. It's meant to be ripped down and rebuilt after a certain amount of time. But your city is made to endure. I mean, you want your city to be around 100 years from now, 200 years from now. None of us build thinking that, well, this neighborhood is going to be disposable. If if we grasped 10 percent of what the Disney Corporation grasp about building great places, it would be a revolution in this country of.of urban design.Kevin K (50:38.66)Yeah, I think one of the things that struck me or maybe it just occurred to me differently this time as well is since I'm in professionally now, I'm running this place management organization here in Kansas City. And so I have gotten a whole lot more exposure in day -to -day work with just management of public space and how difficult that is and just the challenges.Charles Marohn (50:51.888)Yeah.Kevin K (51:07.652)I started to look at it a little bit through that lens. And I think when I started to do that, I'm just completely and utterly impressed with the management of everything that Disney does from beginning to end, from the entire experience, from when you arrive through the process of going through security. Oh my God. The thousands and thousands of people that go through security per hour. And it's just this utterly seamless experience that you're just like, why can't the airport be like this? You know?Charles Marohn (51:37.072)Yeah. Yeah.Kevin K (51:37.092)And, you know, all the aspects of it really makes you say, this is what I think a lot of us are really hoping. This is how we wish our places were managed on a daily basis, including the cleanliness of it. And I know it's a fake world. It's a theme park. But I think that's part of it seems to me like that's part of the attraction.Charles Marohn (52:00.464)Yeah, and I actually think we can discount it and say it's a fake world, like I totally get it. But I also feel like what they've recognized that we all could easily recognize is that a huge part of creating value is the experience. We were having a chat here internally today about an article that one of our writers is working on about transit.and just how a lot of the wayfaring is being taken out in New York and in other places because it was old and it just didn't get replaced. And you can go to a place like Vancouver where they've got new parts of the system and those parts have great wayfaring and great signage. The reason is because the way we finance transit focuses on massive one -time investments.but it doesn't really look at long term the user experience and how do we improve that? How do we put money towards that? And how do we make that fun? We would rather have double the size of the transit system and have it be really crappy for everybody than to have half the transit system and have it be marvelous for everyone who uses it. And that is really a byproduct of like our macro economy, right? Grow, grow, grow, build, build, build more, more, more. Disney builds a lot, butThey never build anything without having a strategy for how it will be exquisitely maintained, for how it will really be conformed and contorted to match the experience. They're always willing to check their assumptions, check their understandings based on how people use stuff. And I think that we could learn a lot from that.The four step process that we use at Strong Towns, the idea that you humbly observe where people struggle and you ask yourself what's the next smallest investment and then you do that and you repeat the process. Part of that comes from really Walt Disney himself. This may be a apocryphal insight, but there's a story about Walt that feels like it's genuine.Charles Marohn (54:21.232)He had an apartment at Disneyland and he would go down in the morning and walk around in his bathrobe watching people get the park ready. And one day he's out walking around and they're putting up a fence. And he's like, why are you why are you putting up a fence there? And he's well, people keep cutting across the grass. We want them to stay on the sidewalk. And his answer was, well, you've got it wrong. Rip out the sidewalk and put it here where people are walking. They're showing you where to go.anyone who's been at one big box store and trying to drive to the next big box store and recognizes that they have to drive half a mile up the highway and then do a weird U -turn and come back and use a right in right out and do all this. Anybody who's tried to cross a street and recognize that they have to walk half a mile to a street light to cross and then come back appreciates the idea that Walt has, which is observe where people are struggling, observe where this is hard and just make it easier for them.To me, this is a genius insight, but it shouldn't be a hard one for us to do.Kevin K (55:27.46)Yeah. Yeah. And I think the other thing is the other observation that I think ties into all that is what you see with Disney World, or at least what I saw with it, is we're in this weird time and place in our culture where there's just not a lot of feeling that we're doing a lot of things really well. And even at the big corporate level,very large corporations, it seems like there's more bad news than good when it comes to all that. And here you have this massive corporation. The Disney Corporation is absolutely massive and owns so many things. And they own this enormous complex of Walt Disney World. And I think when you go there, it's like it kind of, I can understand how my parents would have thought about that era, that America.does big things really well because Disney World epitomizes somebody, an organization doing big things really, really well down to the smallest detail like you describe.Charles Marohn (56:38.096)Well, Walt Disney embodies, for better and for worse, I mean, I think there's obviously two sides to this, the immediate post -war mentality. I mean, Disneyland itself is a hubristic undertaking to transform an orange grove out in the middle of nowhere into this dreamland where you can take your kids, you can take your grandparents, everybody can go and have this wonderful time.His vision came about because he was sitting at like an old carnival, watching his kids go on rides that were dirty and not well taken care of and grounds that weren't very fun. And he's like, as an adult, you're kind of ostracized from participating. Let's build this dream world. I think it is in many ways the best of that era because he did have aa dream and a vision that was very, I'm not gonna use, I want to use the word inclusive, but I think that is probably wrong in our current context. But he would have said, a place for everybody to come. He was also criticized for it being too expensive like it is today. So there's limits to what is very expensive. But I think it's also the worst.Kevin K (57:55.3)It is expensive. Yeah.Charles Marohn (58:00.912)of what we did, because it is this idea that you can create perfection. All like it is possible to build to a finished state and have it be done right. And when it comes to magical make believe places, I think that that's probably right, because they don't have a mindset that it will always be there. They are always redoing and refixing things and all that. But we when we take that mentality and we bring it into our neighborhoods and our cities and we're like, well, we can build this.with a Disney mentality where we go out and build it perfect the first time and then walk away. Sure, we'll get 20 years where it's the nice neighborhood and the good place, and then it will become a downward spiral like every place else. And I do think we have not, it's almost become a place that allows us to believe in the wrong things. Like we, to me, I feel like if my mayor went to Disney World, he would come back,not with the mentality of we need obsessive maintenance and to humbly observe where people are struggling and to respond to the human condition and have great urban design. He would come back and say, wow, we can build big stuff really quickly and have it be awesome. And I'm like, that's the wrong takeaway, buddy.Kevin K (59:16.196)Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think it does espouse a lot of those contradictions. So that feels like probably a good place to leave it. I should also mention in case you didn't know that Walt Disney is from small town Missouri. And Marceline. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, everything in Missouri is pronounced strange. That's just the way it is. It's also Missouri. So I should say that. You know.Charles Marohn (59:22.032)Yeah, yeah, yeah.Hey, thanks, man.Charles Marohn (59:31.696)He is, no, I definitely knew that. I've been wanting, it's Marceline, is that the name of the place? Marceline, okay, I'm saying it like I'm Minnesotan.HahahaDo people actually say that? Missouri?Kevin K (59:47.619)If you're if you are not in Kansas City or St. Louis, it's pronounced Missouri. Oh, yeah.Charles Marohn (59:52.336)Seriously, I did not know that. You know, I spent a summer at Fort Leonard Wood, which was one of the most miserable summers of my life. So I had clay, you know, Minnesota, we have this beautiful glacial outwash. Doesn't mean like the engineering geek, but we have this nice glacial outwash. So when it rains, the water drains into the ground and I'm in Kansas City or I'm sorry, I'm in Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri and I have a tent that I'm sleeping in because I'm a soldier.Kevin K (59:57.316)Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's it.Charles Marohn (01:00:21.392)And it rains and guess what happens to the water in Missouri? It just runs into the lowest area and floods it, which happened to be my tent. Oh my gosh, it's horrible. Just wretched.Kevin K (01:00:24.548)Yeah.Kevin K (01:00:29.124)Yeah, yeah, and you just get mud everywhere. It's wonderful. Yeah, but yeah, but yet continuing the story just briefly, Walt Disney then as a young man went to Kansas City and got his start in journalism and his professional career in Kansas City. And he worked at a place called the Laffagram Studios, which a friend of mine here, a developer is trying to restore and they're trying to make it into an attraction. But yeah, it should be a cool thing when it gets done. So.Charles Marohn (01:00:41.328)Yeah.Charles Marohn (01:00:54.128)Oh nice.Is that where he did the first, because there was a first iteration before Mickey Mouse. Mickey Mouse was the second prototype after he had a falling out with his business partner. Yeah.Kevin K (01:01:01.348)Yes.Kevin K (01:01:06.628)Yes. Yeah. There, there is some, you know, urban legend that the first one was here at the Laffagram studios. But I think, I think that's, uh, I mean, we'll claim it, but it's hotly debated. Uh, well Chuck, thanks so much for doing this. Uh, for again, um, the book, uh, coming out is Escaping the Housing Trap, the Strong Towns Response. And then the Strong Towns National Gathering is coming up May 14th and 15th in Cincinnati.Charles Marohn (01:01:13.392)Sure. Let's go with that. Yeah, yeah, let's go with that.Kevin K (01:01:35.844)So I can't wait to see you there and see our other good friends and look forward to a great week in a city that I've been looking forward to spending more time.Charles Marohn (01:01:48.624)Thank you, my friend. And I'm, I'm happy, uh, to introduce a whole bunch more people to your podcast. Um, if you're not listening, if this is your first time listening and you're listening, cause of me, put this on your rotation. Cause this is a very good podcast and Kevin, uh, has a lot of my friends and our mutual friends and a lot of other interesting people. Um, we talk about more than just Disney and, uh, Kansas city and baseball. So yeah, thanks friend. Absolutely.Kevin K (01:02:10.052)Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thanks, Chuck. I appreciate that. All right. Take care. Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

To Support the Channel:Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/AskZacTip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacVenmo @AskZac  Or check out my store for merch  - https://my-store-be0243.creator-spring.com/Albert Lee shares the background and process of recording Emmylou's seminal Luxury Liner album released in December 1976. From the gear he used, to how the musicians were presented with the tunes before recording. This was taken from an informal discussion backstage with Albert at London's O2 arena.#askzac #albertlee #emmylouharrisSupport the show

In today's episode, we're honored to welcome Albert Lee, President and CEO of Tampa Bay Black Business Investment Corporation (BBIC), as our distinguished guest. Together, we delve into key topics shaping the landscape of business and finance:Unlocking Entrepreneurial Capital: Insights into navigating the loan process and securing capital.Strategic Leadership: Albert's journey from entrepreneur to leading Tampa Bay BBIC, with a focus on strategic funding.Impactful Lending: Favorite success stories and how BBIC addresses unique business needs.Industry Reflections: Changes in the lending industry, emerging trends, and wisdom for aspiring entrepreneurs.Albert Leehttps://tampabaybbic.com/Email :  info@tampabaybbic.comEconix Linkshttps://linktr.ee/econixFinally, if this show has impacted you in a positive way please consider supporting below. Thanks!Support the show

Christmas comes but once a year, yet thrice it 'casts into your ear(s)! Yes, with the dinner eaten and the games over, the party is in full swing as The Peggy Mount Calamity Hour's festive delving culminates its way to the yuletide jamboree! Approaching an advanced state of refreshment, Doctor Velvet, Blackout and Ozzy Bognops are in the mood for some salt-of-the-earth tinkling of The Old Joann-oh™, and so it's naturally to The Light Channel they turn. And boogey-woogeying its way down to a studio-approximation of the East End is 1982's incomparable Chas & Dave's Christmas Knees-Up, where the cockney duo rattle out a handful of their own hits while playing host to Jimmy Cricket, Lennie Peters, Cosmotheka, Albert Lee and Eric Clapton. Variety shows are bread and butter pudding to this podcast of course, and live musical acts come under particular scrutiny - so it's anyone's guess as to how far the goodwill of this particular season will stretch... Are Chas and Dave starting to regret phoning up their most famous mates for a jam? Has Lennie Peters come down to sort out some right muppet who's bin bad-maafing his mannah? And is Alyn Ainsworth hiding in the Rancor pit? Put your beer in the sideboard here, let mother press Play and find out... (Bonus points and/or an extra jellied eel will be awarded to listeners who can sing along AND do the harmonies) The Peggy Mount Calamity Hour is a free podcast from iPorle Media, which holds production copyright. Opinions and recollections expressed are not to be taken as fact. The title and credit music is by Doctor Velvet. Audio segments from television programmes are presented for review and informational purposes only under fair use, and no ownership of these is claimed or implied by this show. Email enquiries to peggymountpod@gmail.com        

The Beatles are back with a new song, NOW and THEN; and it is Beatlemania 2023 style all over again! Listen to the Beatle Guru Brooke Halpin and Tom Gouker hosts of the limited run podcast called, The Beatles Come To America. The podcast is approximately 25 episodes and we reviewed all the US Beatle Albums like, 65, HEY JUDE, and SOMETHING NEW. We have a TON to say about NOW and Then so you will want to hear our takes on the new track. And, if you are a Beatle Fan...make sure you subscribe to The Beatles Come to America now, starting in December you will have access to the amazing show called, COME TOGETHER with Brooke Halpin. COME TOGETHER with Brooke Halpin now heard on THE BEATLES COME TO AMERICA! The show plays Beatles and solo Beatle songs, Beatle Collaborations, and includes Beatles Magazine New Headlines and The Beatles Cover Song of the Day. Special guests include RINGO STARR, ANGIE McCARTNEY, BRUCE SPIZER, ALBERT LEE, CHRIS WALTER and IVOR DAVIS. Brooke Halpin is a noted Beatles expert and has written 2 books on The Beatles: Do You Really Know The Beatles? and A Magical Mystery Time. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/somethingcame-from-baltim/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/somethingcame-from-baltim/support

Thanks to Truetone for sponsoring today's episode. Find your next pedal board power supply at:  www.truetone.comJeff King was raised in the Smokey Mountains of East Tennessee, where as a young boy, he found a guitar in an attic and was immediately hooked. Though he loved music and played frequent gigs, he did not study it in college, yet post-graduation, he decided to throw in his lot with a friend that moved to Nashville in the early 80s. With luck on his side, he fairly quickly hit the scene in a big way in 1985 by landing the lead guitar spot with the then-new artist, Patty Loveless. Jeff was soon riding the wave of success with Patty who was busy sending singles up the charts and wowing crowds and critics with her soulful Kentucky sound. This led to major screen time, as Loveless guested on the TV shows of the day, including Austin City Limits, The Tonight Show, Letterman, and the various music shows on The Nashville Network.  Jeff was also getting to watch Patty make her records with guitarists Reggie Young, Ray Flacke, Albert Lee, Richard Bennett, and Steve Gibson. He soon was putting his watch-time lessons to use by working on demo sessions in-between road dates to the point that he was soon able to bid the road goodbye and focus completely on studio work. After decades of studio work, he was asked by one of his clients, Reba McIntire, to go out on the road with her, which lead to him also performing road dates with Brooks & Dunn. Jeff now tours with two legendary Country Music acts, and because of their less strenuous touring, he is able to keep his studio work thriving.On the gear front, King tells the backstory of his main guitar, a 1985 G-Bender equipped Glaser Tele-Style that is on its second neck. We also get a look at his Tom Anderson Strat, Gretsch Duo-Jet, studio pedal board, and his 1956 Fender Harvard amp.Support the show

Today I'm chatting with Paul Pigat - A phenomenal musician, sideman and  frontman for rockabilly band - Cousin Harley.Hailing from Vancouver BC, Canada, Cousin Harley, can explode like an active volcano, swing like the Basie band and holler like A lonesome hillbilly in the back woods of the Appalachia, all in a single show. This trio has been rocking  international audiences for 20 years! Not to be trifled with and not to be missed, folks, this is Cousin Harley!!!Cousin Harley plays a mean guitar” Michael Kissinger, Pier magazinePaul has shared the stage and lent his guitar mastery to some fine musicians over the years such as Jeff Beck, Jackob Dylan, Michael Kaeshammer, Albert Lee, James Burton, Brian Setzer, The Reverend Horton Heat, Neko Case, Jim Byrnes, The Sojourners, Carolyn Mark and many many others.We had a great chat it was awesome speaking to Paul so cheers to Paul for coming on - You can find all his stuff over at http://paulpigat.com/Become a Blues Guitar Show Member: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribeShoot me a question to cover in the upcoming episodes by emailing ben@thebluesguitarshow.comFollow me on instagram @bluesguitarshowpodcast Make a small donation at 'Buy me a coffee' https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bluesguitarshowSupport the show

Jeff King was raised in the Smokey Mountains of East Tennessee, where as a young boy, he found a guitar in an attic and was immediately hooked. Though he loved music and played frequent gigs, he did not study it in college, yet post-graduation, he decided to throw in his lot with a friend that moved to Nashville in the early 80s. With luck on his side, he fairly quickly hit the scene in a big way in 1985 by landing the lead guitar spot with the then-new artist, Patty Loveless. Jeff was soon riding the wave of success with Patty who was busy sending singles up the charts and wowing crowds and critics with her soulful Kentucky sound. This led to major screen time, as Loveless guested on the TV shows of the day, including Austin City Limits, The Tonight Show, Letterman, and the various music shows on The Nashville Network. Jeff was also getting to watch Patty make her records with guitarists Reggie Young, Ray Flacke, Albert Lee, Richard Bennett, and Steve Gibson. He soon was putting his watch-time lessons to use by working on demo sessions in-between road dates to the point that he was soon able to bid the road goodbye and focus completely on studio work. After decades of studio work, he was asked by one of his clients, Reba McIntire, to go out on the road with her, which lead to him also performing road dates with Brooks & Dunn. Jeff now tours with two legendary Country Music acts, and because of their less strenuous touring, he is able to keep his studio work thriving. On the gear front, King tells the backstory of his main guitar, a 1985 G-Bender equipped Glaser Tele-Style that is on its second neck. We also get a look at his Tom Anderson Strat, Gretsch Duo-Jet, studio pedal board, and his 1956 Fender Harvard amp.

To Support the Channel:Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/AskZacTip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacVenmo @AskZac  Or check out my store for merch  - www.askzac.comJBL began producing efficient, high-wattage speakers in 1948 with the introduction of the D-130 model 15" speaker. The speaker was mainly used in public address (PA) systems until 1953 when Bob Crooks decided to spare no expense with his new Standel line of guitar amps, and factory install D-130's in them. Standel became the Dumble of the early 50s with their innovative cabinet and circuit designs, and also due to their use of a speaker that could produce a much clearer and louder tone than the less expensive pressed frame speakers being produced by Jensen and others. Stars from Chet Atkins to Speedy West began using Standel models over Fender, and the boys in Fullerton began to take note. Leo Fender, whose goal was always to make a great instrument at a more pocketbook-friendly price, continued to use lower-cost Jensen units until he finally relented in late 1959, producing the Vibrasonic amp, which was his first factory-equipped model with a JBL and the first Fender with Tolex covering and forward facing controls.  In today's episode, we will look at some of the myths about them concerning brightness, the actual weight of the popular alnico magnet D120F & K120 models, and the differences between cast frame and pressed from speakers. Also, we will discuss the polarity issue and the frame thickness of the later D120F and K120 models that can require modifications to be utilized in some amps.    A short list of guitarists that have used JBL speakers during important phases of their careers would include, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Clapton, Albert Lee, Albert Collins, James Burton, Jerry Garcia, Roy Nichols, Duane Allman, Chet Atkins, Dickie Betts, Vince Gill, Mick Taylor, Keith Richards, Jesse Ed Davis, and Eric Johnson.Gear Used:1957 Fender Esquire with a 1954 neck pickup, and original bridge pickup. Restoration and aging on the body by Dan "Danocaster" Strain. Both pickups were rewound by Ron Ellis.Strings: D'Addario NYXL 10-44 (10,12,16,24,34,44)Pick:D'Andrea Medium-HeavyAmp:1965 Deluxe Reverb with a 60s JBL D120F gray frame speaker with its original cone. Used with AmpRX Brown Box set to 113vEffects used:Amp reverb#askzac #jbld120f #zacchildsSupport the show

To Support the Channel:https://www.patreon.com/AskZacTip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacVenmo @AskZac  Or check out my store for merch  - www.askzac.comIn 1990, Guitar Player Magazine released an amazing series of albums through a partnership with Rhino Records titled The Legends of Guitar. The series covered Blues, Rock, Jazz, Classical, and Country. I picked up vol 1 & 2 of the Country series, and my eyes were opened to the founders of the style. These albums launched me down many rabbit holes, gaining a greater appreciation for cats like Chet Atkins, and Albert Lee, and a new appreciation for lesser-known players such as Junior Barnard, Roy Lanham, and Jimmy Colvard. These 2 albums have been in constant rotation in my car for 30 years, hence an episode to spotlight their importance. Special thanks to Rich Kienzle, who was very instrumental in these compilation albums, and has been a personal music journalism hero of mine.Spotify playlist with most of the songs of both volumeshttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/2t7...#askzac #guitartech #telecasterSupport the show

Five years of clips from the podcast featuring (in order of appearance) Endr Won, Blair Conrad, Kaz Zaidi, Dan Cole from Suds ‘Em Yourself, F.J.Gouldner,  UO Professor Ben Saunders, Pat Miller, “Brooklyn” Jay, Lora Workman, Taylor Jones, Chris Wig, Albert Lee, Thomas Hiura, Adam & Cohen, Sammy Warm Hands, Tre Stewart, Mark Molina, Thomas Hiura (again), Mayor Sean VanGordon, Tim Lewis, Police Chief Andrew Shearer, Alan Benevedes, Dana Peterson-Crabb, Cameron Derby, Endr Won (again), and Leonard Stoehr. Hosted by Patty Rose To support the podcast with a one time or monthly donation  go to strpod.com/sponsors Ending Track “Feel Of My Skin” by Patty Rose (feat. Gradient) Sponsored by Oregon Cash Flow Pro Oregoncashflowpro.com To listen to all previous episodes, buy merch, and more go to strpod.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/strpod/message

On this episode, host Tyler Chisholm sits down with Albert Lee from Closure Liability Management, a well-site assessment company in the energy sector. They discuss various topics, including the uncertainty surrounding the ultimate reserve life of shale developments and the potential for technological advancements to increase their value. They also explore the importance of hoarding valuable resources and the role of Closure Liability in managing reserve companies' worth and planning for declines and exits.The episode is sponsored by Givesome, an online charitable giving platform that allows companies to engage with their employees to promote charitable giving. Visit their website to learn more: https://www.givesome.orgWe're on social media! Follow us for episodes you might have missed and key insights on Western Canada directly on your feeds.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/collisionsyycLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/collisions-yycWebsite: https://www.collisionsyyc.comThank you for tuning into Collisions YYC!Remember to subscribe and follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode.If you loved the episode, please leave us a 5-star review and share the show with your friends!We sincerely appreciate your support of our local podcast.Host links:Tyler's Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/tylerchisholmTyler's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerchisholmGuest links:Closure Liability Management's Website: https://www.closurelm.comClosure Liability Management's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/closure-liability-management/Albert Lee's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/albertkleeCollisions YYC is a Tyler Chisholm original production // Brought to you by clearmotive marketing

The pop punk version of a power ballad turns into a great song that may have been a victim of its own success — and a lack of active listening skills. Plus, a secret supergroup, and a band who understood the assignment. Good Riddance (Time of Your Life), originally by Green Day, covered by Albert Lee and Hogan's Heroes, and by Wolf Alice. Outro music is Hole Hearted, by Extreme, and wow, Nuno Bettencourt is an absolute beast, in an under appreciated band. 

To Support the Channel:Tip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacOr check out my store at  - www.askzac.comSpotlight on Frank Reckard, Emmylou's Hot Band lead guitarist from 1978-1990. A great player, who is sometimes overlooked as he left the music business after his tenure in the Hot Band to go to law school. Taking the position once held by both James Burton & Albert Lee was a task that Reckard took on ably with talent, hard work, and a fat Les Paul TV P90 tone. In today's episode, we spotlight his history as a player, gear used through the years, and have a mini-lesson covering the wonderful intro to his signature tune with  Emmylou, "Restless."   Thank you to Dan Forte for his GP article on Frank from 1984.Spotify Playlist for Reckardhttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/4w9...Gear Used:2014 Crook Custom Vintage Paisley - APC Adder (Neck) Peter Florance TE-60 (Bridge)Glaser B-Benderhttp://www.crookcustomguitars.com/Pick:Blue Chip TPR 35Strings:D'Addario NYXL 10,12,16,24,34,44 Amp: 1965 Deluxe Reverb with Celestion Vintage 30 speaker, and bright cap clipped on the vibrato channel.Effects used:Mirage CompBoss DM-3 Delay9v power via Truetone CS6  https://amzn.to/3gnJQPW #askzac #guitartech #telecasterSupport the show

A new research paper was published in Oncotarget's Volume 14 on May 26, 2023, entitled, “Deconstructing the role of MALAT1 in MAPK-signaling in melanoma: insights from antisense oligonucleotide treatment.” The long non-coding RNA (lncRNA) MALAT1 is a regulator of oncogenesis and cancer progression. MAPK-pathway upregulation is the main event in the development and progression of human cancer, including melanoma and recent studies have shown that MALAT1 has a significant impact on the regulation of gene and protein expression in the MAPK pathway. However, the role of MALAT1 in regulation of gene and protein expression of the MAPK-pathway kinases RAS, RAF, MEK, and ERK in melanoma is largely unknown. In this study, researchers Valentin Feichtenschlager, Yixuan James Zheng, Wilson Ho, Linan Chen, Ciara Callanan, Christopher Chen, Albert Lee, Jose Ortiz, Klemens Rappersberger, and Susana Ortiz-Urda from the University of California San Francisco and Medical University Vienna demonstrated the impacts of antisense oligonucleotide (ASO)-based MALAT1-inhibition on MAPK-pathway gene regulation in melanoma. “Our results showed that MALAT1-ASO treatment decreased BRAF RNA expression and protein levels, and MALAT1 had increased correlation with MAPK-pathway associated genes in melanoma patient samples compared to healthy skin.” Additionally, drug-induced MAPK inhibition upregulated MALAT1-expression, a finding that resonates with a paradigm of MALAT1-expression presented in this work: MALAT1 is downregulated in melanoma and other cancer types in which MALAT1 seems to be associated with MAPK-signaling, while MALAT1-ASO treatment strongly reduced the growth of melanoma cell lines, even in cases of resistance to MEK inhibition. MALAT1-ASO treatment significantly inhibited colony formation in vitro and reduced tumor growth in an NRAS-mutant melanoma xenograft mouse model in vivo, while showing no aberrant toxic side effects. “Our findings demonstrate new insights into MALAT1-mediated MAPK-pathway gene regulation and a paradigm of MALAT1 expression in MAPK-signaling-dependent cancer types. MALAT1 maintains essential oncogenic functions, despite being downregulated.” DOI - https://doi.org/10.18632/oncotarget.28447 Correspondence to - Valentin Feichtenschlager - valentin.feichtenschlager@ucsf.edu Sign up for free Altmetric alerts about this article - https://oncotarget.altmetric.com/details/email_updates?id=10.18632%2Foncotarget.28447 Subscribe for free publication alerts from Oncotarget - https://www.oncotarget.com/subscribe/ Keywords - MALAT1, MAPK-pathway, BRAF, melanoma, antisense oligonucleotides About Oncotarget Oncotarget is a primarily oncology-focused, peer-reviewed, open access journal. Papers are published continuously within yearly volumes in their final and complete form, and then quickly released to Pubmed. On September 15, 2022, Oncotarget was accepted again for indexing by MEDLINE. Oncotarget is now indexed by Medline/PubMed and PMC/PubMed. To learn more about Oncotarget, please visit https://www.oncotarget.com and connect with us: SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/oncotarget Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Oncotarget/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/oncotarget Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/oncotargetjrnl/ YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@OncotargetJournal LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/oncotarget Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/oncotarget/ Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/user/Oncotarget/ Media Contact MEDIA@IMPACTJOURNALS.COM 18009220957

To Support the Channel:Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/AskZacTip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacVenmo @AskZac  Or check out my store for merch  - www.askzac.comCORRECTION - The "Stars On The Water" rhythm part was both Albert Lee and Hank DeVito. They played the same part but were panned hard left and right. Hank indicated he used his Esquire and a Vox AC30 on the track. DeVito is an esteemed steel player, guitarist, songwriter, and photographer. As a musician, he was an original member of Emmylou's Hot Band, Rodney Crowell's Cherry Bombs, and later performed with the Everly Brothers. As a songwriter, Hank wrote or co-wrote many well-known tunes including "Queen of Hearts," "Sweet Little Lisa," and "Small Town Saturday Night." His photography graces the cover of a number of albums, including Rosanne Cash's King's Record Shop. Also, "You're Still On My Mind" was written by Luke/Jeff Daniels in 1959 You asked for it, so here is my look at a smattering of electric country rhythm guitar styles. Here I cover some fun rhythm techniques I stole from James Burton, Albert Lee, Ray Flacke, Brad Paisley, and Pete Anderson.Spotify Playlisthttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/069...Gear for this video1967 Telecaster - stock except for steel compensated saddles, and the tone control is wired to the bridge pickup only.Strings: Ernie Ball 10,13,15,24,32,42Pick:Blue Chip TPR 35 RB Amp:1967 Deluxe Reverb amp with Celestion V30 speakerEffects used:Mirage compressor pedalBoss TR-2 Trem with AM modBoss DM-39v power via Truetone CS6 #askzac #guitartech #telecasterSupport the show

To Support the Channel:Tip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacOr check out my store at  - www.askzac.comAlbert Lee's playing floored me when I heard it on Eric Clapton's "Just One Night" album. I soon began racing down the rabbit hole learning as much as I could about his playing style, gear, and buying every album I could find that listed him on the credits. This episode is a tribute to Albert, and the huge influence he has had on electric guitar players in Country & all roots-based music styles.Playlist for Albert Leehttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/1Vk...Gear used in Video:1982 Kubicki Tele body with Danocaster soft V maple neckGlaser B-Bender circa 1996APC Adder (Neck) Ron Ellis 60T (Bridge)Strings: D'Addario 9.5-44 XL120+Pick:Blue Chip TPR 35 RB Amp:1967 Deluxe Reverb amp with Celestion V30 speakerEffects used:Mirage compressor pedalBoss DM-39v power via Truetone CS6 #askzac #guitartech #telecasterSupport the show

Hometown Radio 04/25/23 5p: Mark Brunes introduces us to music great Albert Lee

To Support the Channel:Patreon  https://www.patreon.com/AskZacTip jar:  https://paypal.me/AskZacVenmo @AskZac  Or check out my store for merch  - www.askzac.comI bought a mandolin after seeing two of my favorite guitarists, Albert Lee & John Jorgenson play mandolin on TV in the early 90s. I loved the sound, and the real change of color and tone they offered the bands they were playing in by putting down their electric guitars and picking up the mandolin. Wanting to be like my heroes, I bought a mandolin and began a long and fruitful journey that I hope you too will consider going on. In this Ask Zac, I cover a few essential techniques for the guitarist to know when they begin playing mandolin, and some mandolin features to look for that make a huge difference in their playability for guitar players. My Spotify Playlist for great Mandolin tracks https://open.spotify.com/playlist/39b... #askzac #guitartech #mandolinSupport the show

Intro2mins - Growing up in Minneapolis and musical background3mins15s - The Beatles, and early influences4mins20s - First song Dave learned on the guitar, and favourite music5mins30s - Father-son relationship and parental support for guitar playing and passions7mins -  Working in the local music store in MPLS, learning about the guitar as an instrument...and a 'sideline for voilin repair-men'11mins - Starting out as a Luthier, working from home...and supporting local bands12mins - Bumping into Prince at the Knut-Kupee music store...'we knew about him for a couple of years before the first album...'13mins - Minneapolis in the late 1970s, black and white musicians playing in different parts of town14mins45s - Auditioning for Prince's early band, Dave shares his memories...trying out at Dell's Tyre Mart19mins - What were musicians wearing in the late 1970? 'A lot of spandex was occuring!' MPLS music scene memories...21mins - An amazing achievement for someone who created an entire scene and became famous throughout the world - Prince putting Minneapolis on the map.24mins - Working in London in his early 20s and working with famous musicians early on in his career (1981-83)26mins - Working with Gary Moore, and a guitar inherited from Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac29mins30s - How did going to London influence your part in Prince's story?31mins - Coming back to MPLS and Prince is achieving a level of fame...and the initial approach from his people. "He wants a guitar, and you're going to make it..."33mins30s - "I was exhilarated rather than nervous..." - making Prince's most iconic guitar having never made one before!36mins - Did you know if the guitar was actually going to be part of the Purple Rain movie??

When Joe Robinson was learning to play in the remote village of Temagog, New South Wales, Australia, YouTube was his teacher. Then he discovered Tommy and Phil Emmanuel—Australia's sibling 6-string slicers—and set out on a path that would lead him to Nashville, where he's been a part of the city's guitar cognoscenti for the past 13 years. At 31, Robinson's fans include https://www.premierguitar.com/rig-rundown-tommy-emmanuel-cgp (Tommy Emmanuel) (who's been a committed mentor), https://www.premierguitar.com/rig-rundown-steve-vai (Steve Vai), https://www.premierguitar.com/rig-rundown-robben-ford (Robben Ford), https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/rig-rundown-eric-johnson-2018 (Eric Johnson), https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/rig-rundown-totos-steve-lukather (Steve Lukather), https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/rig-rundown-albert-lee (Albert Lee), https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/rig-rundown-deep-purples-steve-morse (Steve Morse), and https://www.premierguitar.com/artists/guitarists/lee-ritenour-dreamcatcher (Lee Ritenour). He's released six acclaimed albums, performed in 40-plus countries, and continues to serve a large online audience through livestream concerts and his own popular YouTube channel. Robinson shared his current touring rig before an October 18 show at his adopted hometown's City Winery. Brought to you by https://ddar.io/XSE.RR (D'Addario XS Coated Strings).

Saludos a toda la Banda! Pues se dice fácil, pero ya llegamos al episodio número 100! Y qué mejor manera de celebrarlo que con un gran músico que ha pertenecido a bandas como Caifanes, Jaguares y La Barranca. Siempre atrás del “spotlight” de la fama, fuera del protagonismo, pero eso sí, manteniendo una coherencia rítmica como pocos. Con ustedes: FEDERICO FONG! Además, Piro nos habla del álbum “E.H. in the U.K”, del saxofonista de jazz Eddie Harris en el que colaboraron los grandes músicos británicos Jeff Beck, Albert Lee, Stevie Winwood y Alan White. Cáiganle no se lo pierdan!  ¡CÓMO ESTÁ LA BANDAAAAA!

Great stories about playing w Larry Carlton, Rod Stewart, George Benson, Steve Morse, EVH, more… why he turned down Allan Holdsworth, the literal once in a lifetime plane flight that COMPLETELY changed his business & personal life… cool music side-hustles John's involved with, tons more. Great convo with a class act: Cool Guitar & Music T-Shirts! http://www.GuitarMerch.com Larry Carlton's drummer for 18 years, John's been touring with Burt Bacarach for the last 7 years, and has also played with Rod Stewart, George Benson, Robben Ford, Jay Graydon, Abraham Laboriel Sr, Albert Lee, Steve Lukather, Boz Scaggs, Steve Morse, Linda Rondstadt, Eddie Van Halen, Carl Verheyen, Promise Keeper's… and done soundtracks for The Warriors, Frasier, Anchorman 2 and hundreds of other projects Subscribe & Website:  https://www.everyonelovesguitar.com/subscribe Support this show: http://www.everyonelovesguitar.com/support

Today on the Rarified Heir Podcast, we are talking to Jim Meskimen, an actor, impressionist, comedian and oh so much more, who happens to the son of Mrs. C. That's right, he's the son of Happy Days' Marion Cunningham aka Marion Ross. Hailing from Albert Lee, Minneapolis, Marion Ross was drawn to acting at an early age. She even changed her name before high school because she thought it would read better on a theater marquee. In fact, her first love was indeed theater – which she did before, during and after her most famous role as America's mom. But it was television that made her a household name. In a career that spans more than 60 years, Marion Ross is still occasionally does voice overs at ninety -f'ing three years old. Her words, not ours. It was great to learn  from Jim about how a head of household, who happened to be a divorced mother of two was able to make it after quite a few years of struggle in show business. It was purely by chance that she took a bit part in Airport, the 1970 disaster movie, that led to a chance meeting with the head of casting for Happy Days. And although Tom Bosley wasn't particularly nice as Mr. Cunningham (which you can read all about in her autobiography My Days: Happy and Otherwise), a decade-long run on a hit television series was an ideal way to make a living doing what she loved. It's a pleasure to talk to Jim about his mother as well as discussing his own career that launched a successful YouTube channel, iconic commercials playing Colonel Sanders for KFC and Geiko as well as starring in an upcoming Starz production called Gaslight with Julia Roberts and Sean Penn. We talk about his stints on America's Got Talent as well as stories about Rich Little, Phylis Diller and Clark Gable. It's all next on the Rarified Heir Podcast.

A podcast for musicians, music lovers, and anyone who loves a good story! In-depth discussions about the music industry & gig life with a variety of musicians & creatives from all over the world!@gigstorieswithmusicpeopleEp. 25 - Matt Lesser @mattlesserdrumsMatt is a freelance drummer, he studied drums at UC Irvine and then began playing all over LA and around the world with a ton of bands. He's performed with guitar legend Albert Lee, Brenna Whitaker (Verve Recording Artist), Austin Hanks (Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top Alumni), French Pop Star Jeanne Mas, Kei Akagi (Miles Davis Alumni), and a ton more. We played together a number of times with Urban Grass (who by the way I'm playing with this Saturday February 26th at Hinano Cafe in Venice). Matt currently stays busy performing and recording with a variety of bands and is available for hire so hit him up! Find out more at mattlessermusic.com !Host:Evan Mykl Chudnow @evanonthebass @the_spaceminthttps://www.thespacemint.com/http://www.evanonthebass.com/https://gig-stories-music-people.captivate.fm*At the moment I have no sponsors, so if you'd like to support this podcast the best thing is to share it on social media or with someone who might be interested! If you want to go above and beyond that and help ensure more episodes you can also purchase my music at https://evanmykl.bandcamp.com/ or even make a contribution on Venmo @Evan-TheSpacemint any help is very much appreciated!Thank you for listening!

Join us, along with our good sponsor, Tipsy McSway's Neighborhood Bar and Grill at 1414 Newcastle Street in Brunswick, Georgia, for an enjoyable Episode 34 of Something In The Water as we welcome the talented Jerry Gowen, originally from Folkston, Georgia. An accomplished pianist, guitarist, and band leader of the Country Music USA Show at Opryland USA, Jerry shares many of his wonderful musical tales with cohosts Sean Clark and Uncle Dave Griffin, and also drops his piano-playing skills in on their original songs, “Let Me In” and “For Free (The Piano Song)”. Exactly. Learning piano at the age of 8, Jerry quickly came to know and respect equally the music of Bach, Ray Charles, Mozart, and Jerry Lee Lewis. To him, it was all just piano music. Jerry's time as a band leader in Nashville, Tennessee had him rubbing shoulders with notable icons, Minnie Pearl, Albert Lee, Brenda Lee, and Porter Wagoner, who's show he played on. His talent has taken him all over the world and we're delighted to have him back in our neck of the woods. You can find him every Thursday-Friday-Saturday at the Georgia Sea Grill on St. Simons Island, Georgia and sharing an occasional gig with the talented Micah Bonn, our Episode 29 guest. https://www.patreon.com/somethinginthewater https://somethinginthewater.captivate.fm somethinginthewaterpodcast@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/somethinginthewaterpodcast/ https://www.instagram.com/somethinginthewaterpodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/cautionlightmedia/

ArTEEtude Shop https://www.arteetude.com/shop/Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arteetude-west-cork-s-first-art-fashion-design-podcast/id1527081647Spotify Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/3eBv4E5qgW8Vot0oojAr1tIn this ArTEEtude podcast episode Detlef Schlich talks with writer Michael Elliott about his growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina and about the progress of writing his first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. ArTEEtude is West Cork´s first art, fashion and design podcast created and produced by Detlef Schlich. Schlich operates with his podcast cross-sectorally. For him a visual artist has to think transversely instead just enjoying the luxury of being the antagonist. To drive the narrative and to be a protagonist, he will dive and discover with us into the unknown and exciting deep ocean of the creative mind. Michael Elliott is the author of the first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Elliot´s biography about Hiatt is based on Elliott's multiple extensive and deeply personal interviews with Hiatt as well as his collaborators and contemporaries, including Rosanne Cash, Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder, and many others, Have a Little Faith is the journey through the musical landscape of the 1960s through today that places Hiatt's long career in context with the glossy pop, college-alternative, mainstream country, and heartland rock of the last half-century. A variety of artists in multiple genres have covered his songs, including Aaron Neville, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, Buddy Guy, Chaka Khan, Albert Lee, Dave Edmunds, Delbert McClinton, Desert Rose Band, Emmylou Harris, Eric Clapton, Iggy Pop, I'm with Her, Jeff Healey, Jewel, Jimmy Buffett, Joan Baez, Joe Bonamassa, Joe Cocker, Keith Urban, Linda Ronstadt, Mandy Moore, Maria Muldaur, Nick Lowe, Paula Abdul, Paulini, Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Ry Cooder, Suzy Bogguss, The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, The Searchers, Three Dog Night, Willie Nelson, Asleep at the Wheel, and Willy DeVille. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Detlef Schlich is Podcaster, Visual Artist, Film Maker and Ritual Designer, living and loving in West Cork and best known for his Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culture and the video installation Transodin´s Tragedy. He is mainly working in the field of performance, photography, painting, sound, installations, and film. To research our human condition and create art work from this reflection he is using often the methodology of the digital-shaman as alter ego.WEBSITE LINKSMichael Elliott LinksWebsite: https://michael-elliott.com InstagramDetlef Schlich ArTEEtude I love West Cork Artists FacebookDetlef Schlich I love West Cork Artists Group ArTEEtudeYou Tube Channelsvisual PodcastArTEEtudeCute Alien TV official WebsiteArTEEtude Detlef Schlich Det Design Tribal Loop Download here for free Detlef Schlich´s Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culturehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/303749640_Shamanism_Art_and_Digital_Culture_Cause_and_EffectHave a Little Faith: The John Hiatt Story Hardcover – September 14, 2021 Hagalaz - A Ritual Mantra Rap © by Detlef SchlichSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/arteetude-a-podcast-with-artists-by-detlef-schlich/donations

ArTEEtude Shop https://www.arteetude.com/shop/Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arteetude-west-cork-s-first-art-fashion-design-podcast/id1527081647Spotify Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/3eBv4E5qgW8Vot0oojAr1tIn this ArTEEtude podcast episode Detlef Schlich talks with writer Michael Elliott about his growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina and about the progress of writing his first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. ArTEEtude is West Cork´s first art, fashion and design podcast created and produced by Detlef Schlich. Schlich operates with his podcast cross-sectorally. For him a visual artist has to think transversely instead just enjoying the luxury of being the antagonist. To drive the narrative and to be a protagonist, he will dive and discover with us into the unknown and exciting deep ocean of the creative mind. Michael Elliott is the author of the first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Elliot´s biography about Hiatt is based on Elliott's multiple extensive and deeply personal interviews with Hiatt as well as his collaborators and contemporaries, including Rosanne Cash, Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder, and many others, Have a Little Faith is the journey through the musical landscape of the 1960s through today that places Hiatt's long career in context with the glossy pop, college-alternative, mainstream country, and heartland rock of the last half-century. A variety of artists in multiple genres have covered his songs, including Aaron Neville, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, Buddy Guy, Chaka Khan, Albert Lee, Dave Edmunds, Delbert McClinton, Desert Rose Band, Emmylou Harris, Eric Clapton, Iggy Pop, I'm with Her, Jeff Healey, Jewel, Jimmy Buffett, Joan Baez, Joe Bonamassa, Joe Cocker, Keith Urban, Linda Ronstadt, Mandy Moore, Maria Muldaur, Nick Lowe, Paula Abdul, Paulini, Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Ry Cooder, Suzy Bogguss, The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, The Searchers, Three Dog Night, Willie Nelson, Asleep at the Wheel, and Willy DeVille. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Detlef Schlich is Podcaster, Visual Artist, Film Maker and Ritual Designer, living and loving in West Cork and best known for his Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culture and the video installation Transodin´s Tragedy. He is mainly working in the field of performance, photography, painting, sound, installations, and film. To research our human condition and create art work from this reflection he is using often the methodology of the digital-shaman as alter ego.WEBSITE LINKSMichael Elliott LinksWebsite: https://michael-elliott.com InstagramDetlef Schlich ArTEEtude I love West Cork Artists FacebookDetlef Schlich I love West Cork Artists Group ArTEEtudeYou Tube Channelsvisual PodcastArTEEtudeCute Alien TV official WebsiteArTEEtude Detlef Schlich Det Design Tribal Loop Download here for free Detlef Schlich´s Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culturehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/303749640_Shamanism_Art_and_Digital_Culture_Cause_and_EffectHave a Little Faith: The John Hiatt Story Hardcover – September 14, 2021 Hagalaz - A Ritual Mantra Rap © by Detlef SchlichSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/arteetude-a-podcast-with-artists-by-detlef-schlich/donations

ArTEEtude Shop https://www.arteetude.com/shop/Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arteetude-west-cork-s-first-art-fashion-design-podcast/id1527081647Spotify Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/3eBv4E5qgW8Vot0oojAr1tIn this ArTEEtude podcast episode Detlef Schlich talks with writer Michael Elliott about his growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina and about the progress of writing his first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. ArTEEtude is West Cork´s first art, fashion and design podcast created and produced by Detlef Schlich. Schlich operates with his podcast cross-sectorally. For him a visual artist has to think transversely instead just enjoying the luxury of being the antagonist. To drive the narrative and to be a protagonist, he will dive and discover with us into the unknown and exciting deep ocean of the creative mind. Michael Elliott is the author of the first-ever biography of songwriting legend John Hiatt. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Elliot´s biography about Hiatt is based on Elliott's multiple extensive and deeply personal interviews with Hiatt as well as his collaborators and contemporaries, including Rosanne Cash, Bonnie Raitt, Ry Cooder, and many others, Have a Little Faith is the journey through the musical landscape of the 1960s through today that places Hiatt's long career in context with the glossy pop, college-alternative, mainstream country, and heartland rock of the last half-century. A variety of artists in multiple genres have covered his songs, including Aaron Neville, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, Buddy Guy, Chaka Khan, Albert Lee, Dave Edmunds, Delbert McClinton, Desert Rose Band, Emmylou Harris, Eric Clapton, Iggy Pop, I'm with Her, Jeff Healey, Jewel, Jimmy Buffett, Joan Baez, Joe Bonamassa, Joe Cocker, Keith Urban, Linda Ronstadt, Mandy Moore, Maria Muldaur, Nick Lowe, Paula Abdul, Paulini, Rodney Crowell, Rosanne Cash, Ry Cooder, Suzy Bogguss, The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, The Searchers, Three Dog Night, Willie Nelson, Asleep at the Wheel, and Willy DeVille. Elliott is a contributor to the pioneering roots music authority No Depression. His music writing has also appeared in PopMatters, Albumism, Americana UK, and The Bitter Southerner. Michael spent close to thirty years in radio as operations manager, music director, program director, and disc jockey in a variety of formats. He has interviewed and produced profiles on musicians as diverse as Isaac Hayes, Charlie Daniels, Delbert McClinton, Johnny Rivers, and Little Richard. He lives in Raleigh, NC where he and his wife, Elizabeth, volunteer for the NC Reading Service, a nonprofit radio service that delivers content to the blind and visually impaired. Detlef Schlich is Podcaster, Visual Artist, Film Maker and Ritual Designer, living and loving in West Cork and best known for his Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culture and the video installation Transodin´s Tragedy. He is mainly working in the field of performance, photography, painting, sound, installations, and film. To research our human condition and create art work from this reflection he is using often the methodology of the digital-shaman as alter ego.WEBSITE LINKSMichael Elliott LinksWebsite: https://michael-elliott.com InstagramDetlef Schlich ArTEEtude I love West Cork Artists FacebookDetlef Schlich I love West Cork Artists Group ArTEEtudeYou Tube Channelsvisual PodcastArTEEtudeCute Alien TV official WebsiteArTEEtude Detlef Schlich Det Design Tribal Loop Download here for free Detlef Schlich´s Essay about the Cause and Effect of Shamanism, Art and Digital Culturehttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/303749640_Shamanism_Art_and_Digital_Culture_Cause_and_EffectHave a Little Faith: The John Hiatt Story Hardcover – September 14, 2021 Hagalaz - A Ritual Mantra Rap © by Detlef SchlichSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/arteetude-a-podcast-with-artists-by-detlef-schlich/donations

In Episode 21, we are talking to Dr. Albert Lee, a tenor who was born and raised in New Haven, Connecticut, attended University of Connecticut, Juilliard School, and received his Doctor of Music at the Florida State University. He has taught at Troy University and University of Nevada at Reno. Most recently, Albert was hired by the Yale School of Music as the Director of a new Program in equity, belonging and student life. Albert has a beautiful voice and is skilled in Opera, Oratorio, and Recital performances. For this podcast, we will also explore his knowledge and skills around his involvement in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion initiatives. I wanted to talk with Albert  for a lot of reasons, but his Ted Talk, “When I sign the National Anthem” really demonstrated an important point about Dynamic Competence. Embracing intentional and collaborative perspectives is really about holding multiple opposing ideas simultaneously. In this podcast we will explore this idea further, including what happens when we don't.   

Episode 126 of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “For Your Love", the Yardbirds, and the beginnings of heavy rock and the guitar hero.  Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a twenty-minute bonus episode available, on "A Lover's Concerto" by the Toys. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources As usual, I've created a Mixcloud playlist, with full versions of all the songs excerpted in this episode. The Yardbirds have one of the most mishandled catalogues of all the sixties groups, possibly the most mishandled. Their recordings with Giorgio Gomelsky, Simon Napier-Bell and Mickie Most are all owned by different people, and all get compiled separately, usually with poor-quality live recordings, demos, and other odds and sods to fill up a CD's running time. The only actual authoritative compilation is the long out-of-print Ultimate! . Information came from a variety of sources. Most of the general Yardbirds information came from The Yardbirds by Alan Clayson and Heart Full of Soul: Keith Relf of the Yardbirds by David French. Simon Napier-Bell's You Don't Have to Say You Love Me is one of the most entertaining books about the sixties music scene, and contains several anecdotes about his time working with the Yardbirds, some of which may even be true. Some information about Immediate Records came from Immediate Records by Simon Spence, which I'll be using more in future episodes. Information about Clapton came from Motherless Child by Paul Scott, while information on Jeff Beck came from Hot Wired Guitar: The Life of Jeff Beck by Martin Power. Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript Today, we're going to take a look at the early career of the band that, more than any other band, was responsible for the position of lead guitarist becoming as prestigious as that of lead singer. We're going to look at how a blues band launched the careers of several of the most successful guitarists of all time, and also one of the most successful pop songwriters of the sixties and seventies. We're going to look at "For Your Love" by the Yardbirds: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "For Your Love"] The roots of the Yardbirds lie in a group of schoolfriends in Richmond, a leafy suburb of London. Keith Relf, Laurie Gane, Paul Samwell-Smith and Jim McCarty were art-school kids who were obsessed with Sonny Terry and Jimmy Reed, and who would hang around the burgeoning London R&B scene, going to see the Rolling Stones and Alexis Korner in Twickenham and at Eel Pie Island, and starting up their own blues band, the Metropolis Blues Quartet. However, Gane soon left the group to go off to university, and he was replaced by two younger guitarists, Top Topham and Chris Dreja, with Samwell-Smith moving from guitar to bass. As they were no longer a quartet, they renamed themselves the Yardbirds, after a term Relf had found on the back of an album cover, meaning a tramp or hobo. The newly-named Yardbirds quickly developed their own unique style -- their repertoire was the same mix of Howlin' Wolf, Bo Diddley, Jimmy Reed and Chuck Berry as every other band on the London scene, but they included long extended improvisatory  instrumental sequences with Relf's harmonica playing off Topham's lead guitar. The group developed a way of extending songs, which they described as a “rave-up” and would become the signature of their live act – in the middle of a song they would go into a long instrumental solo in double-time, taking the song twice as fast and improvising heavily, before dropping back to the original tempo to finish the song off. These “rave-up” sections would often be much longer than the main song, and were a chance for everyone to show off their instrumental skills, with Topham and Relf trading phrases on guitar and harmonica. They were mentored by Cyril Davies, who gave them the interval spots at some of his shows -- and then one day asked them to fill in for him in a gig he couldn't make -- a residency at a club in Harrow, where the Yardbirds went down so well that they were asked to permanently take over the residency from Davies, much to his disgust. But the group's big break came when the Rolling Stones signed with Andrew Oldham, leaving Giorgio Gomelsky with no band to play the Crawdaddy Club every Sunday. Gomelsky was out of the country at his father's funeral when the Stones quit on him, and so it was up to Gomelsky's assistant Hamish Grimes to find a replacement. Grimes looked at the R&B scene and the choice came down to two bands -- the Yardbirds and Them. Grimes said it was a toss-up, but he eventually went for the Yardbirds, who eagerly agreed. When Gomelsky got back, the group were packing audiences in at the Crawdaddy and doing even better than the Stones had been. Soon Gomelsky wanted to become the Yardbirds' manager and turn the group into full-time musicians, but there was a problem -- the new school term was starting, Top Topham was only fifteen, and his parents didn't want him to quit school. Topham had to leave the group. Luckily, there was someone waiting in the wings. Eric Clapton was well known on the local scene as someone who was quite good on guitar, and he and Topham had played together for a long time as an informal duo, so he knew the parts -- and he was also acquainted with Dreja. Everyone on the London blues scene knew everyone else, although the thing that stuck in most of the Yardbirds' minds about Clapton was the time he'd seen the Metropolis Blues Quartet play and gone up to Samwell-Smith and said "Could you do me a favour?" When Samwell-Smith had nodded his assent, Clapton had said "Don't play any more guitar solos". Clapton was someone who worshipped the romantic image of the Delta bluesman, solitary and rootless, without friends or companions, surviving only on his wits and weighed down by troubles, and he would imagine himself that way as he took guitar lessons from Dave Brock, later of Hawkwind, or as he hung out with Top Topham and Chris Dreja in Richmond on weekends, complaining about the burdens he had to bear, such as the expensive electric guitar his grandmother had bought him not being as good as he'd hoped. Clapton had hung around with Topham and Dreja, but they'd never been really close, and he hadn't been considered for a spot in the Yardbirds when the group had formed. Instead he had joined the Roosters with Tom McGuinness, who had introduced Clapton to the music of Freddie King, especially a B-side called "I Love the Woman", which showed Clapton for the first time how the guitar could be more than just an accompaniment to vocals, but a featured instrument in its own right: [Excerpt: Freddie King, "I Love the Woman"] The Roosters had been blues purists, dedicated to a scholarly attitude to American Black music and contemptuous of pop music -- when Clapton met the Beatles for the first time, when they came along to an early Rolling Stones gig Clapton was also at, he had thought of them as "a bunch of wankers" and despised them as sellouts. After the Roosters had broken up, Clapton and McGuinness had joined the gimmicky Merseybeat group Casey Jones and his Engineers, who had a band uniform of black suits and cardboard Confederate army caps, before leaving that as well. McGuinness had gone on to join Manfred Mann, and Clapton was left without a group, until the Yardbirds called on him. The new lineup quickly gelled as musicians -- though the band did become frustrated with one quirk of Clapton's. He liked to bend strings, and so he used very light gauge strings on his guitar, which often broke, meaning that a big chunk of time would be taken up each show with Clapton restringing his guitar, while the audience gave a slow hand clap -- leading to his nickname, "Slowhand" Clap-ton. Two months after Clapton joined the group, Gomelsky got them to back Sonny Boy Williamson II on a UK tour, recording a show at the Crawdaddy Club which was released as a live album three years later: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds and Sonny Boy Williamson II, "Twenty-three Hours Too Long"] Williamson and the Yardbirds didn't get along though, either as people or as musicians. Williamson's birth name was Rice Miller, and he'd originally taken the name "Sonny Boy Williamson" to cash in on the fame of another musician who used that name, though he'd gone on to much greater success than the original, who'd died not long after the former Miller started using the name. Clapton, wanting to show off, had gone up to Williamson when they were introduced and said "Isn't your real name Rice Miller?" Williamson had pulled a knife on Clapton, and his relationship with the group didn't get much better from that point on. The group were annoyed that Williamson was drunk on stage and would call out songs they hadn't rehearsed, while Williamson later summed up his view of the Yardbirds to Robbie Robertson, saying "Those English boys want to play the blues so bad -- and they play the blues *so bad*!" Shortly after this, the group cut some demos on their own, which were used to get them a deal with Columbia, a subsidiary of EMI. Their first single was a version of Billy Boy Arnold's "I Wish You Would": [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "I Wish You Would"] This was as pure R&B as a British group would get at this point, but Clapton was unhappy with the record -- partly because hearing the group in the studio made him realise how comparatively thin they sounded as players, and partly just because he was worried that even going into a recording studio at all was selling out and not something that any of the Delta bluesmen whose records he loved would do. He was happier with the group's first album, a live recording called Five Live Yardbirds that captured the sound of the group at the Marquee Club. The repertoire on that album was precisely the same as any of the other British R&B bands of the time -- songs by Howlin' Wolf, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, John Lee Hooker, Slim Harpo, Sonny Boy Williamson and the Isley Brothers -- but they were often heavily extended versions, with a lot of interplay between Samwell-Smith's bass, Clapton's guitar, and Relf's harmonica, like their five-and-a-half-minute version of Howlin' Wolf's "Smokestack Lightning": [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Smokestack Lightning"] "I Wish You Would" made number twenty-six on the NME chart, but it didn't make the Record Retailer chart which is the basis of modern chart compilations. The group were just about to go into the studio to cut their second single, a version of "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl", when Keith Relf collapsed. Relf had severe asthma and was also a heavy smoker, and his lung collapsed and he had to be hospitalised for several weeks, and it looked for a while as if he might never be able to sing or play harmonica again. In his absence, various friends and hangers-on from the R&B scene deputised for him -- Ronnie Wood has recalled being at a gig and the audience being asked "Can anyone play harmonica?", leading to Wood getting on stage with them, and other people who played a gig or two, or sometimes just a song or two, with them include Mick Jagger, Brian Jones, and Rod Stewart. Stewart was apparently a big fan, and would keep trying to get on stage with them -- according to Keith Relf's wife, "Rod Stewart would be sitting in the backroom begging to go on—‘Oh give us a turn, give us a turn.'” Luckily, Relf's lung was successfully reinflated, and he returned to singing, harmonica playing... and smoking. In the early months back with the group, he would sometimes have to pull out his inhaler in the middle of a word to be able to continue singing, and he would start seeing stars on stage. Relf's health would never be good, but he was able to carry on performing, and the future of the group was secured. What wasn't secure was the group's relationship with their guitarist. While Relf and Dreja had for a time shared a flat with Eric Clapton, he was becoming increasingly distant from the other members. Partly this was because Relf felt somewhat jealous of the fact that the audiences seemed more impressed with the group's guitarist than with him, the lead singer; partly it was because Giorgio Gomelsky had made Paul Samwell-Smith the group's musical director, and Clapton had never got on with Samwell-Smith and distrusted his musical instincts; but mostly it was just that the rest of the group found Clapton rather petty, cold, and humourless, and never felt any real connection to him. Their records still weren't selling, but they were popular enough on the local scene that they were invited to be one of the support acts for the Beatles' run of Christmas shows at the end of 1964, and hung out with the group backstage. Paul McCartney played them a new song he was working on, which didn't have lyrics yet, but which would soon become "Yesterday", but it was another song they heard that would change the group's career. A music publisher named Ronnie Beck turned up backstage with a demo he wanted the Beatles to hear. Obviously, the Beatles weren't interested in hearing any demos -- they were writing so many hits they were giving half of them away to other artists, why would they need someone else's song? But the Yardbirds were looking for a hit, and after listening to the demo, Samwell-Smith was convinced that a hit was what this demo was. The demo was by a Manchester-based songwriter named Graham Gouldman. Gouldman had started his career in a group called the Whirlwinds, who had released one single -- a version of Buddy Holly's "Look at Me" backed with a song called "Baby Not Like You", written by Gouldman's friend Lol Creme: [Excerpt: The Whirlwinds, "Baby Not Like You"] The Whirlwinds had split up by this point, and Gouldman was in the process of forming a new band, the Mockingbirds, which included drummer Kevin Godley. The song on the demo had been intended as the Mockingbirds' first single, but their label had decided instead to go with "That's How (It's Gonna Stay)": [Excerpt: The Mockingbirds, "That's How (It's Gonna Stay)"] So the song, "For Your Love", was free, and Samwell-Smith was insistent -- this was going to be the group's first big hit. The record was a total departure from their blues sound. Gouldman's version had been backed by bongos and acoustic guitar, and Samwell-Smith decided that he would keep the bongo part, and add, not the normal rock band instruments, but harpsichord and bowed double bass: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "For Your Love"] The only part of the song where the group's normal electric instrumentation is used is the brief middle-eight, which feels nothing like the rest of the record: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "For Your Love"] But on the rest of the record, none of the Yardbirds other than Jim McCarty play -- the verses have Relf on vocals, McCarty on drums, Brian Auger on harpsichord, Ron Prentice on double bass and Denny Piercy on bongos, with Samwell-Smith in the control room producing. Clapton and Dreja only played on the middle eight. The record went to number three, and became the group's first real hit, and it led to an odd experience for Gouldman, as the Mockingbirds were by this time employed as the warm-up act on the BBC's Top of the Pops, which was recorded in Manchester, so Gouldman got to see mobs of excited fans applauding the Yardbirds for performing a song he'd written, while he was completely ignored. Most of the group were excited about their newfound success, but Clapton was not happy. He hadn't signed up to be a member of a pop group -- he wanted to be in a blues band. He made his displeasure about playing on material like "For Your Love"  very clear, and right after the recording session he resigned from the group. He was convinced that they would be nothing without him -- after all, wasn't he the undisputed star of the group? -- and he immediately found work with a group that was more suited to his talents, John Mayall's Bluesbreakers. The Bluesbreakers at this point consisted of Mayall on keyboards and vocals, Clapton on guitar, John McVie on bass, and Hughie Flint on drums. For their first single with this lineup, they signed a one-record deal with Immediate Records, a new independent label started by the Rolling Stones' manager Andrew Oldham. That single was produced by Immediate's young staff producer, the session guitarist Jimmy Page: [Excerpt: John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, "I'm Your Witch Doctor"] The Bluesbreakers had something of a fluid lineup -- shortly after that recording, Clapton left the group to join another group, and was replaced by a guitarist named Peter Green. Then Clapton came back, for the recording of what became known as the "Beano album", because Clapton was in a mood when they took the cover photo, and so read the children's comic the Beano rather than looking at the camera: [Excerpt: John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, "Bernard Jenkins"] Shortly after that, Mayall fired John McVie, who was replaced by Jack Bruce, formerly of the Graham Bond Organisation, but then Bruce left to join Manfred Mann and McVie was rehired. While Clapton was in the Bluesbreakers, he gained a reputation for being the best guitarist in London -- a popular graffito at the time was "Clapton is God" -- and he was at first convinced that without him the Yardbirds would soon collapse. But Clapton had enough self-awareness to know that even though he was very good, there were a handful of guitarists in London who were better than him. One he always acknowledged was Albert Lee, who at the time was playing in Chris Farlowe's backing band but would later become known as arguably the greatest country guitarist of his generation. But another was the man that the Yardbirds got in to replace him. The Yardbirds had originally asked Jimmy Page if he wanted to join the group, and he'd briefly been tempted, but he'd decided that his talents were better used in the studio, especially since he'd just been given the staff job at Immediate. Instead he recommended his friend Jeff Beck. The two had known each other since their teens, and had grown up playing guitar together, and sharing influences as they delved deeper into music. While both men admired the same blues musicians that Clapton did, people like Hubert Sumlin and Buddy Guy, they both had much more eclectic tastes than Clapton -- both loved rockabilly, and admired Scotty Moore and James Burton, and Beck was a huge devotee of Cliff Gallup, the original guitarist from Gene Vincent's Blue Caps. Beck also loved Les Paul and the jazz guitarist Barney Kessel, while Page was trying to incorporate some of the musical ideas of the sitar player Ravi Shankar into his playing. While Page was primarily a session player, Beck was a gigging musician, playing with a group called the Tridents, but as Page rapidly became one of the two first-call session guitarists along with Big Jim Sullivan, he would often recommend his friend for sessions he couldn't make, leading to Beck playing on records like "Dracula's Daughter", which Joe Meek produced for Screaming Lord Sutch and the Savages: [Excerpt: Screaming Lord Sutch and the Savages, "Dracula's Daughter"] While Clapton had a very straightforward tone, Beck was already experimenting with the few effects that were available at the time, like echoes and fuzztone. While there would always be arguments about who was the first to use feedback as a controlled musical sound, Beck is one of those who often gets the credit, and Keith Relf would describe Beck's guitar playing as being almost musique concrete. You can hear the difference on the group's next single. "Heart Full of Soul" was again written by Gouldman, and was originally recorded with a sitar, which would have made it one of the first pop singles to use the instrument. However, they decided to replace the sitar part with Beck playing the same Indian-sounding riff on a heavily-distorted guitar: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Heart Full of Soul"] That made number two in the UK and the top ten in the US, and suddenly the world had a new guitar god, one who was doing things on records that nobody else had been doing. The group's next single was a double A-side, a third song written by Gouldman, "Evil Hearted You", coupled with an original by the group, "Still I'm Sad". Neither track was quite up to the standard of their previous couple of singles, but it still went to number three on the charts. From this point on, the group stopped using Gouldman's songs as singles, preferring to write their own material, but Gouldman had already started providing hits for other groups like the Hollies, for whom he wrote songs like “Bus Stop”: [Excerpt: The Hollies, “Bus Stop”] His group The Mockingbirds had also signed to Immediate Records, who put out their classic pop-psych single “You Stole My Love”: [Excerpt: The Mockingbirds, “You Stole My Love”] We will hear more of Gouldman later. In the Yardbirds, meanwhile, the pressure was starting to tell on Keith. He was a deeply introverted person who didn't have the temperament for stardom, and he was uncomfortable with being recognised on the street. It also didn't help that his dad was also the band's driver and tour manager, which meant he always ended up feeling somewhat inhibited, and he started drinking heavily to try to lose some of those inhibitions. Shortly after the recording of "Evil Hearted You", the group went on their first American tour, though on some dates they were unable to play as Gomelsky had messed up their work permits -- one of several things about Gomelsky's management of the group that irritated them. But they were surprised to find that they were much bigger in the US than in the UK. While the group had only released singles, EPs, and the one live album in the UK, and would only ever put out one UK studio album, they'd recorded enough that they'd already had an album out in the US, a compilation of singles, B-sides, and even a couple of demos, and that had been picked up on by almost every garage band in the country. On one of the US gigs, their opening act, a teenage group called the Spiders, were in trouble. They'd learned every song on that Yardbirds album, and their entire set was made up of covers of that material. They'd gone down well supporting every other major band that came to town, but they had a problem when it came to the Yardbirds. Their singer described what happened next: "We thought about it and we said, 'Look, we're paying tribute to them—let's just do our set.' And so, we opened for the Yardbirds and did all of their songs. We could see them in the back and they were smiling and giving us the thumbs up. And then they got up and just blew us off the stage—because they were the Yardbirds! And we just stood there going, 'Oh…. That's how it's done.' The Yardbirds were one of the best live bands I ever heard and we learned a lot that night." That band, and later that lead singer, both later changed their name to Alice Cooper. The trip to the US also saw a couple of recording sessions. Gomelsky had been annoyed at the bad drum sound the group had got in UK studios, and had loved Sam Phillips' drum sound on the old Sun records, so had decided to get in touch with Phillips and ask him to produce the group. He hadn't had a reply, but the group turned up at Phillips' new studio anyway, knowing that he lived in a flat above the studio. Phillips wasn't in, but eventually turned up at midnight, after a fishing trip, drunk. He wasn't interested in producing some group of British kids, but Gomelsky waved six hundred dollars at him, and he agreed. He produced two tracks for the group. One of those, "Mr. You're a Better Man Than I", was written by Mike Hugg of Manfred Mann and his brother: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Mister, You're a Better Man Than I"] The backing track there was produced by Phillips, but the lead vocal was redone in New York, as Relf was also drunk and wasn't singing well -- something Phillips pointed out, and which devastated Relf, who had grown up on records Phillips produced. Phillips' dismissal of Relf also grated on Beck -- even though Beck wasn't close to Relf, as the two competed for prominence on stage while the rest of the band kept to the backline, Beck had enormous respect for Relf's talents as a frontman, and thought Phillips horribly unprofessional for his dismissive attitude, though the other Yardbirds had happier memories of the session, not least because Phillips caught their live sound better than anyone had. You can hear Relf's drunken incompetence on the other track they recorded at the session, their version of "Train Kept A-Rollin'", the song we covered way back in episode forty-four. Rearranged by Samwell-Smith and Beck, the Yardbirds' version built on the Johnny Burnette recording and turned it into one of the hardest rock tracks ever recorded to that point -- but Relf's drunk, sloppy, vocal was caught on the backing track. He later recut the vocal more competently, with Roy Halee engineering in New York, but the combination of the two vocals gives the track an unusual feel which inspired many future garage bands: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Train Kept A-Rollin'"] On that first US tour, they also recorded a version of Bo Diddley's "I'm a Man" at Chess Studios, where Diddley had recorded his original. Only a few weeks after the end of that tour they were back for a second tour, in support of their second US album, and they returned to Chess to record what many consider their finest original. "Shapes of Things" had been inspired by the bass part on Dave Brubeck's "Pick Up Sticks": [Excerpt: Dave Brubeck Quartet, "Pick Up Sticks"] Samwell-Smith and McCarty had written the music for the song, Relf and Samwell-Smith added lyrics, and Beck experimented with feedback, leading to one of the first psychedelic records to become a big hit, making number three in the UK and number eleven in the US: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Shapes of Things"] That would be the group's last record with Giorgio Gomelsky as credited producer -- although Samwell-Smith had been doing all the actual production work -- as the group were becoming increasingly annoyed at Gomelsky's ideas for promoting them, which included things like making them record songs in Italian so they could take part in an Italian song contest. Gomelsky was also working them so hard that Beck ended up being hospitalised with what has been variously described as meningitis and exhaustion. By the time he was out of the hospital, Gomelsky was fired. His replacement as manager and co-producer was Simon Napier-Bell, a young dilettante and scenester who was best known for co-writing the English language lyrics for Dusty Springfield's "You Don't Have to Say You Love Me": [Excerpt: Dusty Springfield, "You Don't Have to Say You Love Me"] The way Napier-Bell tells the story -- and Napier-Bell is an amusing raconteur, and his volumes of autobiography are enjoyable reads, but one gets the feeling that he will not tell the truth if a lie seems more entertaining -- is that the group chose him because of his promotion of a record he'd produced for a duo called Diane Ferraz and Nicky Scott: [Excerpt: Diane Ferraz and Nicky Scott, "Me and You"] According to Napier-Bell, both Ferraz and Scott were lovers of his, who were causing him problems, and he decided to get rid of the problem by making them both pop stars. As Ferraz was Black and Scott white, Napier-Bell sent photos of them to every DJ and producer in the country, and then when they weren't booked on TV shows or playlisted on the radio, he would accuse the DJs and producers of racism and threaten to go to the newspapers about it. As a result, they ended up on almost every TV show and getting regular radio exposure, though it wasn't enough to make the record a hit. The Yardbirds had been impressed by how much publicity Ferraz and Scott had got, and asked Napier-Bell to manage them. He immediately set about renegotiating their record contract and getting them a twenty-thousand-pound advance -- a fortune in the sixties. He also moved forward with a plan Gomelsky had had of the group putting out solo records, though only Relf ended up doing so. Relf's first solo single was a baroque pop song, "Mr. Zero", written by Bob Lind, who had been a one-hit wonder with "Elusive Butterfly", and produced by Samwell-Smith: [Excerpt: Keith Relf, "Mr. Zero"] Beck, meanwhile, recorded a solo instrumental, intended for his first solo single but not released until nearly a year later.  "Beck's Bolero" has Jimmy Page as its credited writer, though Beck claims to be a co-writer, and features Beck and Page on guitars, session pianist Nicky Hopkins, and Keith Moon of the Who on drums. John Entwistle of the Who was meant to play bass, but when he didn't show to the session, Page's friend, session bass player John Paul Jones, was called up: [Excerpt: Jeff Beck, "Beck's Bolero"] The five players were so happy with that recording that they briefly discussed forming a group together, with Moon saying of the idea "That will go down like a lead zeppelin". They all agreed that it wouldn't work and carried on with their respective careers. The group's next single was their first to come from a studio album -- their only UK studio album, variously known as Yardbirds or Roger the Engineer. "Over Under Sideways Down" was largely written in the studio and is credited to all five group members, though Napier-Bell has suggested he came up with the chorus lyrics: [Excerpt: The Yardbirds, "Over Under Sideways Down"] That became the group's fifth top ten single in a row, but it would be their last, because they were about to lose the man who, more than anyone else, had been responsible for their musical direction. The group had been booked to play an upper-class black-tie event, and Relf had turned up drunk. They played three sets, and for the first, Relf started to get freaked out by the fact that the audience were just standing there, not dancing, and started blowing raspberries at them. He got more drunk in the interval, and in the second set he spent an entire song just screaming at the audience that they could copulate with themselves, using a word I'm not allowed to use without this podcast losing its clean rating. They got him offstage and played the rest of the set just doing instrumentals. For the third set, Relf was even more drunk. He came onstage and immediately fell backwards into the drum kit. Only one person in the audience was at all impressed -- Beck's friend Jimmy Page had come along to see the show, and had thought it great anarchic fun. He went backstage to tell them so, and found Samwell-Smith in the middle of quitting the group, having finally had enough. Page, who had turned down the offer to join the group two years earlier, was getting bored of just being a session player and decided that being a pop star seemed more fun. He immediately volunteered himself as the group's new bass player, and we'll see how that played out in a future episode...

In this episode we chat again with motion designer & art director Casey Latiolais about his latest career moves. He tells us about the career moves he made during the uncertain times of the global pandemic. We also talk about the contrast between different work environments, and the popular subject of corporate vs studio life.    LINKS Casey's Website - https://caselat.com Casey's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caselat/   Albert Lee - https://www.albertleeillustration.com/ Paul McMahon (Rusted Pixel) - https://www.therustedpixel.com/     * Want to share your story? Reach out at hello@christianprieto.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *music provided by Sono Sanctus

William Shatner of Star Trek fame (Captain Kirk) talks about his latest album, The Blues, a tribute to the blues, melding Shatner's thespian talent with legendary musical accompaniment. Musical guests like Deep Purple guitarist Ritchie Blackmore, Pat Travers, Albert Lee, Steve Cropper, members of Canned Heat, James Burton of Elvis Presley fame, all dazzle while Shatner moans and groans along with his own blues pain.Shatner also discusses his 2004 hit, a cover of Pulp's "Common People," produced by Ben Folds and sung with Joe Jackson, and his Beatles rendition of "Lucy In the Sky with Diamonds" released back in 1968.This episode is for any William Shatner fan or blues enthusiast... really, it's pure fun!This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts.