Podcasts about Pathological demand avoidance

If you've lowered demands for your PDA child or teen but still aren't seeing much progress, this episode is for you. It explains one of the most common sticking points I hear from families: that due to the name - Pathological Demand Avoidance - parents focused on lowering demands, when what their child needs more is increased autonomy and equality.This episode is an excerpt from my free Understanding PDA Masterclass. In it I walk through the distinction between demands as a surface-level behavior and autonomy and equality as the root-level mechanism. To help make the difference clear, I describe how in a typical morning autonomy losses often accumulate before a child even gets out the door.Key Takeaways Demands Are the Surface. Autonomy Is the Root | 00:00:00 The name Pathological Demand Avoidance points toward the behavior: avoidance of demands. But if we think about PDA as a pervasive drive for autonomy, we get closer to the actual mechanism. Parents who have lowered demands and are not seeing progress are often still inadvertently signaling a loss of autonomy through expectation, energy, agenda, or position of authority, even when the demand itself has been removed. The surface level behavior is demand avoidance. The root level cause is neuroception of a loss of autonomy or equality. My Younger Son's School Refusal: The Autonomy Mechanism in Real Time | 00:01:33 For two weeks, my younger son could not get his body to go to school. Each evening he would tell me he genuinely wanted to go the next morning, naming specific things he looked forward to. When I asked whether he would like me to prompt him in the morning, he said no, because if you do, then I will not go. That is the PDA mechanism: in his thinking brain, with full autonomy and no external expectation, going to school felt possible. The moment an agenda or a prompt from me entered, his amygdala would register a loss of autonomy, activate the threat response, and make going impossible. A Morning Audit: Fifteen Activations To Start The Day | 00:06:02 I walk through a typical first hour of a day with a PDA child to illustrate how many autonomy and equality losses can accumulate before the family has even left the house. Being woken up by a parent or an alarm is an externally imposed loss of autonomy. Being expected to come downstairs, eat, eat in a particular place, be told what is and is not available for breakfast, clean up the plate, get dressed, put on shoes, pack a backpack, receive a gentle correction after pushing a sibling on the way to the car: each one registers in the amygdala as a threat event. In a loving, gentle household with no intentional pressure, there can be fifteen or more of these activations in forty-five minutes. That cumulative load is what makes PDA disabling, not any single demand. Equality Is as Important as Autonomy | 00:04:50 The equality piece is often underemphasized. It includes any energy of another person being above the PDA child in stature, authority, or position: not getting the most ice cream, not being first down the stairs, not getting the last word, having a parent try and teach them something in the moment of a behavior. Even gentle parenting's recommendation to take the child aside after a dysregulation and debrief produces this perception, because the parent is placing themselves above as the teacher and the explainer. The child is not in the right part of their brain to receive it, and the teaching itself is perceived as another activation.Relevant Resources Understanding PDA — The free masterclass from which this episode is excerpted, covering the six characteristics of PDA including the survival drive for autonomy and equality described here.Burnout — Free class with context for how cumulative autonomy losses build over time to the point of disabling access to basic needs.Paradigm Shift Program — My signature program where the shift from a demand lens to an autonomy and equality lens is practiced as an embodied skill over twelve weeks of live coaching.

When an autistic child or teen consistently pushes back against daily expectations, traditional parenting and teaching methods often default to high-pressure enforcement. This pattern routinely triggers escalating defensive behaviors, creating a continuous loop of friction that strains the entire family system. In this encore conversation, Sandra McConnell, an advocate known as the PDA Mama Bear, joins Emily Kircher-Morris to unpack the nuanced framework of pervasive demand avoidance and explore how it reshapes typical social navigation. They talk about ways to shift the focus away from top-down behavior tracking, and why common behaviorist tools like point charts or sudden restrictions fail to foster authentic growth for youth with this cognitive profile. TAKEAWAYS PDA represents a distinct neurodivergent profile rooted in a protective baseline of sensory anxiety and a heightened resistance to coercion. Traditional behavioral adjustments such as top-down discipline, sudden restrictions, and performance rewards lose their utility when applied to youth with deep demand avoidance patterns. Apparent behavioral compliance can hide severe internal masking and exhaustion, which often surfaces later as profound burnout and sudden academic avoidance. Manifestations of demand avoidance often vary between protective escape patterns and a desire to control the immediate household environment. Shifting the caregiver approach from a position of top-down authority to that of an instructional mentor lowers daily pressure and builds authentic family trust. Protecting a child's long-term social and emotional development requires moving away from absolute compliance demands to focus instead on reducing baseline nervous system stress. This week's special CE training for mental health professionals features Dr. Christopher Willard, and is titled, "The New 3 R's: Mindfulness-Based Resilience, Regulation, and Relationships." The training is live online Friday, July 10 from 2:00 to 3:30 pm Eastern, and is approved for 1.5 APA and NBCC continuing education hours. Everyone who registers can earn those credits by watching the event live, or can choose to watch it later. Register here. Sandra McConnell is a blogger, speaker, and trainer on Autistic Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA). She conducts webinars, workshops and conferences all across the country to train and inform people about PDA. She has two graduate certificates in Learning Differences & Neurodiversity specializing in Executive Functioning and Autism (Landmark College, 2021); a certification in PDA through the UK-based, OCN-accredited organization Neurodivergent Education Support and Training (NEST, 2020); a master's degree in Forensic Psychophysiology (Argosy University, 2006); and a bachelor's degree in Psychology and Criminology (UNM, 2000).  Sandra lives in Maryland, USA, with her husband, who's ADHD, her 13-year-old son, who's PDA, her 10-year-old son, who's ADHD, and her 6-year-old daughter, who's TBD. BACKGROUND READING Sandra's website The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you're invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com If you'd like members of your organization, school district, or company to know more about the subjects discussed on our podcast, Emily Kircher-Morris provides keynote addresses, workshops, and training sessions worldwide, in-person or virtually. You can choose from a list of established presentations, or work with Emily to develop a custom talk to fit your unique situation. To learn more, visit our website.

This episode is an excerpt from a lesson inside the Paradigm Shift Program. I'm sharing it because the PDA lens is the foundation that all other skills in my work rest on, and it is not something most parents are going to hear explained anywhere else.In this lesson I walk through exactly what the PDA lens is, why it has to be learned as a skill rather than just understood intellectually, and how to begin applying it. I also address the most common thought that comes up when I introduce the concept of deliberately signaling equality: am I training my child to be a bad adult? And why the answer, through the logic of this lens, is no.Key Takeaways The PDA Lens Is a Skill, Not the Only Valid Lens | 00:00:00 The PDA lens is something I think of as a pair of glasses you can put on and take off. It does not invalidate the ADHD lens, the sensory lens, the OCD lens, or the anxiety lens. It teaches a different logic, one that most parents are not going to hear explained anywhere else because every professional encounter tends to frame the root cause through a different paradigm. Every Loss of Autonomy Is a Drop in a Bucket, Invisible Until the Tipping Point | 00:01:31 The PDA lens asks us to look at every behavior, even if it looks manipulative or intentional, and think: my child has been perceiving threat around not having autonomy or being below someone or something, over and over, and every time that happens, a drop goes into the cumulative nervous system activation bucket. Most of those drops are invisible because high masking, the internalization of the threat response rather than the behavioral expression of it, is a feature of PDA. The accumulation builds over days, months and years. By the time most families arrive at my work, the child is either very close to their threshold of tolerance or so far past it that they are existing in a near-constant state of threat. Equalization, Basic Needs, and Why Behavioral Strategies Cannot Work | 00:06:41 When cumulative activation reaches the tipping point, the nervous system tries to exert control and move above in order to get back to felt safety. This is equalizing. And control tends to coalesce around the one or two things a parent genuinely cannot force: eating, toileting, sleep, hygiene. Because this is subconscious, cumulative, and not under their conscious awareness, behavioral strategies do not work. Signaling Equality Without Removing All Boundaries | 00:11:39 The equality signal does not mean there are no limits in the home and the child runs everything. It means thinking creatively about how to deliberately, mindfully, and as an accommodation give a child or teen the felt experience of being above, of going first, of being more skilled in this moment, in order to offset years of subconsciously perceiving that they are below. You Will Know More Than the Professionals You Work With | 00:10:09 This is not a criticism of professionals. It is a reality of where the PDA research and understanding currently sits. Most clinicians, teachers, and therapists have been trained through a behavioral paradigm that assumes behavior is rational, conscious, and changeable through incentives and disincentives. The PDA lens is a fundamentally different paradigm and it is not (yet!) taught in most training programs.Relevant Resources Understanding PDA — Free class where I teach the nervous system disability framework and the root cause logic that the PDA lens described in this episode is built on.Tracking Progress — Free class on how to observe the three outcome dimensions, nervous system activation, basic needs, and engagement, referenced in this episode as the data to watch rather than the behaviors to fix.Paradigm Shift Program — My signature three-month program where the PDA lens introduced in this excerpt is practiced as an embodied skill across twelve weeks of live coaching, spot coaching, and community support.

What happens when the very strategies behaviour analysts are taught to rely on become part of the problem? In this episode of Behaviour Speak, Ben Reiman welcomes BCBA Michelle Karren for a thoughtful discussion about PDA (commonly known as Pathological Demand Avoidance), autonomy-focused learners, and the challenges families face when traditional intervention approaches aren't working. Drawing on both professional expertise and lived experience as a parent of autistic children, Michelle shares how she became increasingly focused on supporting learners whose intense drive for autonomy, anxiety, and demand sensitivity require a fundamentally different approach. Together, Ben and Michelle explore: • What PDA is and how it differs from typical demand avoidance • The shift from "Pathological Demand Avoidance" toward more respectful language such as "Persistent Drive for Autonomy" and "autonomy-focused learners" • Why traditional behaviour support strategies can unintentionally increase stress and resistance • The role anxiety and nervous system regulation play in PDA profiles • Burnout experienced by learners, caregivers, and support teams • School challenges, masking, and the high rates of school-related stress among PDA learners • The importance of rapport, trust, assent, and shared control • Why role play and learner-led activities can be powerful tools for skill development • Supporting emotional regulation instead of focusing solely on compliance • Caregiver collaboration and helping families identify meaningful quality-of-life goals • The value of interdisciplinary collaboration and learning from professionals outside behaviour analysis • How behaviour analysts can remain evidence-informed while adapting their practice to meet individual learner needs Michelle challenges practitioners to remember that behaviour analysis is not defined by rigid procedures, but by careful observation, responsiveness, and a commitment to understanding what learners are communicating through their behaviour. Whether you're new to PDA or looking to deepen your understanding of autonomy-focused approaches, this episode offers practical insights and important reflections for anyone supporting neurodivergent learners. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ble7W3G104w Continuing Education Credits (https://www.cbiconsultants.com/shop) BACB: 1.5 Learning IBAO:  1.5 ABA Topics QABA: 1.5 General CBA/CPD: 1.5 Learning   Follow us! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behaviourspeak/ LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/behaviourspeak/ TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@behaviorspeak   Contact Michelle Karren LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-karren-m-sc-bcba-433716273/ Related Behaviour Speak Episodes Episode 262, Motivational Interviewing for Behaviour Analysts with Dr. Monica Gilbert https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-261-motivational-interviewing-for-behaviour-analysts-with-dr-monica-gilbert/ Episode 179, Reforming ABA: A Framework for Behavior Analysts with Oswin Latimer and Hilary McClinton. https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-179-reforming-aba-a-framework-for-behavior-analysts/ Episode 34, Neurodiversity, ADHD, and ODD with Amelia Bowler https://www.behaviourspeak.com/e/episode-34-neurodiversity-adhd-and-odd-with-amelia-bowler-mads-bcba/  

678.When a child goes to extreme lengths to avoid any demand or expectation—even those they have of themselves—parents can be left feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. Every child will resist or defy parental demands and requests from time to time. But when a child goes to extreme lengths to avoid any demand or expectation—even those they have of themselves—parents can be left feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. Dr. Nanika Coor offers suggestions for coping with life with a child who struggles with Pathological Demand Avoidance. Find Project Parenthood on Facebook and Twitter, or subscribe to the Quick and Dirty Tips newsletter for more tips and advice.Project Parenthood is a part of Quick and Dirty Tips.Find transcripts on the Quick and Dirty Tips WebsiteLinks: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/subscribehttps://www.facebook.com/QDTProjectParenthoodhttps://twitter.com/qdtparenthoodhttps://brooklynparenttherapy.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode I share the definition of PDA I use: PDA is a survival drive for autonomy and equality that consistently overrides other survival instincts, including eating, sleeping, toileting, hygiene, and safety. I explain how this is different from older definitions that consider PDA to be anxiety driven, and why that distinction matters clinically and practically. I also I introduce the concept of equalizing - the behavioral expression of the disability that extends well beyond demand avoidance into physical, verbal, and relational patterns that can look like manipulation, control, or defiance but are actually a nervous system response.Key Takeaways Why the Definition of PDA Matters: Survival Drive vs. Anxiety | 00:02:05 The original framing describes PDA as an anxiety-driven need for control. Anxiety is a future-oriented cognitive experience, and that framing points clinicians and parents toward exposure therapy, medication for anxiety, and pushing through avoidance. My definition is different. PDA is a survival drive for autonomy and equality that operates on a subconscious level, in the nervous system, before conscious thought. A child can love their grandparent, be emotionally attached to their therapist, and genuinely want to go to football practice, and still be accumulating nervous system activation from losses of autonomy throughout all of those experiences. The drive does not require cognitive anxiety to be present. That distinction changes what we do about it entirely. The Survival Drive That Overrides Everything Else | 00:07:35 What makes PDA neurologically distinct, in my conceptualization, is that the survival drive for autonomy and equality can override other basic survival instincts. I share an example from my own life: telling Cooper to stay away from the fire, gently at first, then with more urgency, and watching him move toward it instead of away, then try to jump in. I have also worked with families where a child accelerated into a body of water - without the ability to swim - after being told to stay back. These are extreme examples I use to illustrate the mechanism, not to suggest this is every family's experience, but they show that the PDA nervous system can prioritize autonomy above the instinct to stay safe, which is what can eventually produce the feeding tubes, the selective mutism, and the basic needs collapses that many families in this community have experienced. What Equalizing Is and Why It Looks Like Manipulation | 00:12:31 Equalizing is a nervous system response to get back to a place of perceived equality - or above another - after a loss of autonomy has been registered. It can be physical: disorganizing something that was orderly, knocking things off tables, touching things impulsively, hovering near a sibling, controlling where a parent can sit or look. It can be verbal: correcting words, redirecting blame, pretending not to hear, changing the topic impulsively, lying about things that seem random. It can be directed at a safe person, at a sibling, at objects in the environment, or even at self. The Spices Example: PDA Versus Other Neurotypes | 00:17:11 I use a simple scenario - organizing kitchen spices - to distinguish PDA equalizing from behavior in other neurotypes, inclduing non-PDA autism, OCD, and anxiety. Equalizing Can Be Subtle Until It Escalates | 00:15:36 As cumulative activation builds and the environment continues to signal losses of autonomy without accommodation, these equalizing expressions can escalate toward the large nervous system responses and basic needs struggles I describe in this episode. The goal of everything I teach is to bring down that cumulative activation so families avoid these challenges, or get through them as quickly and smoothly as possible. Relevant Resources Understanding PDA — Free class where I teach the nervous system disability framework, the neuroception mechanism, and the cumulative activation logic introduced in this episode.Burnout — Free class with context for how the survival drive overriding basic needs leads to the burnout state many families are already in when they find this work.Paradigm Shift Program — My signature program where the full framework for understanding PDA, equalizing, and responding to both is taught across twelve weeks of live coaching.

If you are a parent who cannot unschool or homeschool your PDA child, or who needs practical support navigating the school system, this episode is for you. I am joined by Dr. Destiny Huff, a licensed professional counselor, non-attorney special education advocate, and neuro-affirming trainer who is also late-diagnosed autistic and ADHD and a mother of neurodivergent children.Dr. Huff shares the most common patterns she sees as PDA families navigate schools, how she frames the nervous system lens in IEP meetings, the specific accommodations she advocates for most consistently, her approach to functional behavioral assessments, and practical steps parents can take right now.Key TakeawaysTwo Patterns Dr. Huff Sees Advocating for PDA Families | 00:05:06 The first is families who have learned about PDA but are still defaulting to the demand avoidance frame when explaining it to schools, which makes it easy for administrators to push back by saying the child just needs to deal with demands. The second is schools latching onto the term PDA itself, either saying they do not recognize it or using it superficially, without understanding the nervous system mechanisms underneath it. Dr. Huff's approach is to move past the label entirely and focus on the root cause: what is happening in the nervous system, what does dysregulation look like for this specific learner, and what changes in the environment and approach can support access and safety.How to Frame the Conversation in an IEP Meeting | 00:13:53 Dr. Huff focuses on three areas that school staff are almost never formally trained on: sensory needs, communication access when regulated and dysregulated, and executive functioning, of which regulation is a component. She always starts with a profile letter that describes the whole learner before getting into accommodations or concerns, and she prefers working with teachers directly because they are often the most unheard people in the room and the most open to trying something new when asked what they are actually seeing.Accommodations Dr. Huff Advocates for Most Consistently | 00:29:43 The first is declarative language, documented with a concrete example of what it actually looks like in practice, because most teams have heard the term but are not using it correctly. The second is a nonverbal communication plan, for when the learner is dysregulated, that could include a designated safe space and trusted person, identified by the learner rather than assigned by the school, paired with a low-profile signal like a hand gesture or an email so the learner can access that space without drawing attention.Her Approach to Functional Behavioral Assessments | 00:40:11 Dr. Huff sees FBAs as useful primarily because they reveal the school's perception of the learner, even when the terminology reflects a behavioral lens she does not share. Once she understands what the school believes is driving the behavior, she goes into rewrite mode with her families: adjusting the language, shifting the approach toward relationship, safety and trust, and pushing back on behavior intervention plans that default to token economies and compliance strategies.What to Do When a Child Is Too Burned Out to Access School | 00:37:27 Dr. Huff has successfully advocated for truncated days and reduced schedules. Her consistent position is that a reduced schedule does not let the school off the hook for providing free and appropriate public education, but it does acknowledge where the child's nervous system is right now and creates a starting point that can be adjusted over time based on what is actually working.Relevant ResourcesYour FBA Is a Fantasy — Book by Rick and Doris Bowman on how to approach functional behavioral assessments through a trauma-informed, neuro-affirming lens rather than a behavior modification lens, recommended directly by Dr. Huff in this episode.Collaborative & Proactive Solutions — Ross Greene's framework for addressing the root causes of challenging behavior through collaboration rather than compliance, referenced by Dr. Huff as a resource for reframing FBAs.The Affirming Village Podcast — Podcast hosted by Dr. Destiny Huff and Lisa Baskin Wright on neuro-affirming approaches to education and parenting.Neuro-Affirming Special Education Handbook — Dr. Huff's book on navigating special education in the US from a neuro-affirming standpoint, including guidance on IEPs, FBAs, and supporting PDA learners.Advocacy and Consultation With Dr. Destiny Huff — Dr. Huff's direct services for families, including IEP meeting attendance, drafting parent input statements, and consultation on supporting PDA and neurodivergent learners in schools.Dr. Destiny Huff on Instagram — Follow Dr. Huff for ongoing content on neuro-affirming special education advocacy, IEP navigation, and supporting neurodivergent learners in schools.Paradigm Shift Program — My signature program for parents of PDA children and teens taught across twelve weeks of live coaching.

What if behaviors that look defiant are actually signs of a nervous system under threat? In this episode, Rabbi Shoshana unpacks PDA, also known as Pathological Demand Avoidance or Pervasive Drive for Autonomy, and explains how nervous system sensitivity, autonomy, and co-regulation shape behavior in neurodivergent kids. She explores why traditional approaches often fail, how aspects of modern life intensify dysregulation, and what it means to truly trust a child rather than assume oppositional intent. Get ready to rethink “difficult behavior,” understand what may be happening beneath the surface, and walk away with a more compassionate, nervous-system-informed approach to supporting your family.What to expect in this episode:The connection between nervous system sensitivity, autonomy, and emotional regulationPDA behaviors that are commonly mistaken for defiance or manipulationModern school and family expectations that can push sensitive nervous systems into overloadA breakdown of the “safe circle” metaphor and what it says about threat responseMeaningful, real-life tasks that naturally lower resistance and increase cooperationAbout Rabbi ShoshanaRabbi Shoshana Meira Friedman is a PDA Autistic woman and creator of The PDA Safe Circle™, a transformative online community for PDAers and their loved ones that centers her strengths-based PDA Safe Circle® Approach. Rabbi Shoshana is known for her in-depth content on PDA that helps PDAers of all ages to thrive within the constraints of their vulnerable nervous system. After a previous career in Jewish congregational leadership and climate activism, she is now a sought-after coach and trainer for PDA adults, parents, and allied clinicians. Her writing has been published in many venues, including The New York Times and Psychotherapy Networker magazine, and she is the author of two children's books.​Connect with RabbiWebsite: The PDA Safe Circle Instagram: @rabbishoshana Get your FREE copy of 12 Key Coaching Tools for Parents at https://impactparents.com/gift.​Connect with Impact Parents:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactparentsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/ImpactParentsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/impactparentsSponsors"Cognitive Ergonomics from the Inside Out" – A New ADHD InterventionDo you recognize current ADHD interventions fall short? At DIG Coaching, we've developed a groundbreaking field of engineering called Cognitive Ergonomics from the Inside Out. Discover a fresh approach to ADHD care that looks beyond traditional methods.Learn more at www.cognitive-ergonomics.com

This episode is an interview with my husband, Jake, about his path from well-founded skepticism of Pathological Demand Avoidance to fully changing his parenting to support our two PDA sons, and how that has helped all three of them.This conversation is for parents who aren't sure about PDA, their partners who are, and everyone who has wondered what it actually looks like to shift the paradigm as the "non-lead" parent. Jake talks about the enforcer role he played, dreading coming home from work, what brought him to shift his perspective, and how he took action to change his relationships with his sons.Key Takeaways Why Non-Lead Parents Lag and Why That Is Not a Deficiency | 00:10:01 Jake explains that his skepticism about pathological demand avoidance came from the same place as his desire to be a good father: wanting his son to be okay long after he was gone. He names the specific experience of not being present enough during the day to witness what Casey was witnessing, the cognitive dissonance of a child who could race through Halloween trick-or-treating and then suddenly be unable to walk, and the ease with which behaviors that look manipulative can be written off as such. He is clear that lagging does not make a parent deficient. It makes them human.What the Enforcer Role Actually Felt Like | 00:24:12 Jake describes placing himself in the role of the disciplinarian and enforcer when Cooper was young, trying strict and punitive approaches consistently enough to know they were not working. He reflects on the moments when Cooper would submit, and how even those felt awful because he was a grown adult overpowering a four-year-old. He names the specific appeal of the pathological demand avoidance approach as not just intellectual but personal: he did not want to be that kind of dad, and the relational damage it was doing to his connection with Cooper was undeniable.Dreading 5PM and the Second Arrow | 00:43:44 Jake describes a period when he went from counting down the hours to the end of the workday to dreading them, knowing he was walking back into a home where the kids were dysregulated, Casey was stretched to her limit, and there was no joy. He names the second arrow clearly: feeling like a dad who dreads his own family, and then feeling guilty for that. He offers this not as a confession but as something he suspects many non-lead parents are sitting with quietly.The Trampoline Commitment and What It Built | 00:44:23 Jake shares a concrete example of how he found a way into connection with Cooper during burnout: committing to saying yes every time Cooper asked to go on the trampoline, even though the activity involved Cooper lying there while Jake jumped for twenty minutes. He frames it honestly as work, not fun fatherhood. But he also describes how, when his legs gave out and he lay down next to his son and started pointing at clouds, the small moments of connection began to accumulate. This type of commitment, he says, may be available to other parents who work full days and only have evenings.Vulnerability With Other Dads and the Masculinity Frame | 00:29:46 Jake reflects on coaching Cooper's tackle football team and the specific difficulty of needing other coaches to understand that Cooper's meltdowns were not a measure of his commitment or character, while knowing that a full explanation of Pathological Demand Avoidance would not land. He names the fear of judgment, and the discomfort of demonstrating vulnerability in a context that did not historically make space for it. He frames the masculine enforcer archetype as a stereotype that most men do not actually identify with but feel bound by because breaking it is a risk.Relevant ResourcesUnderstanding PDA — Free class with the foundational context that Jake describes eventually coming to through lived experienceBurnout — Free class relevant to the burnout phases with both Cooper and William that Jake discusses throughoutParadigm Shift Program — Our signature program where Jake hosts three live sessions specifically for non-lead parents

In this episode I talk about how I understand my autistic brain, my internalized pathological demand avoidance, and why it took me six years of working in this space before I felt certain enough to say this publicly. I also walk through my life, from childhood to the present, with renewed understanding, in the hope of sharing insights that can help you.This episode is for parents of high-achieving young adults who burn out, for women exploring whether they might be autistic or pathologically demand avoidant, and for anyone who just wants to know more about the person behind this work (me!).Key TakeawaysWhy Casey Resisted Identifying Publicly for Seven Years | 00:06:29 Casey names three reasons she held back. First, she genuinely was not sure, because her experience did not feel like the veil-lifting moment many autistic adults describe, and she had other diagnoses that made the picture muddy. Second, her early experiences engaging with the autistic and PDA online community involved sustained harassment and cancellation attempts, which made that space feel unsafe rather than affirming. Third, her resistance to being labeled by others mirrored exactly what she teaches about pathologically demand avoidant children who reject diagnoses: it is a survival drive for autonomy, and that include identity.What Her Internalized Profile Looked Like in Childhood and School | 00:18:25 Casey describes herself as an extraordinarily compliant and academically gifted child whose two special interests were academics and people. She explains that school functioned as a natural accommodation: it was predictable, she was consistently above her peers, and cause and effect was clear. At home, her parents' divorce introduced chaos, and her nervous system defaulted to freeze, fawn, and shutdown rather than fight or flight. She started writing in journals for hours as a way of processing social interactions and exerting control over her environment, which she now sees as the same mechanism as a child spending hours on a screen.Burnout at 26 and the Panic Disorder Years | 00:27:55 Casey describes her first panic attack during a graduate economics exam at Columbia, followed by a full dissociative episode in the law library weeks later. She lost 20 pounds, could not eat or sleep, and could only function when physically close to safe nervous systems. She was prescribed medication, but she refused to take it for fear of addiction. She frames this period as a burnout triggered by the first situation in her life where she was not the best at something, in an environment where the rules of the game were no longer ones she could win.Postpartum Burnout and What Cooper's Birth Revealed | 00:38:40 Casey describes going off her medication during pregnancy, an emergency C-section after 48 hours of labor where she felt she lost control of her body, and the 18 months of suicidal ideation and intensive outpatient psychiatric care that followed. She was diagnosed with postpartum OCD, anxiety, and depression. She now understands this as a profound loss of bodily autonomy compounding a nervous system that was already primed for that response.Acceptance as the Shift That Therapy Alone Could Not Produce | 00:42:15 Casey describes reaching a point after years of EMDR, somatic experiencing, safe and sound protocol, havening, and meditation where she recognized that some of what she was experiencing was not going to be "fixed" by more therapy. It was brain wiring. She shares how she now applies to herself the same accommodation framework she teaches parents, including using the 4S's of regulation, attending hot yoga for sensory regulation, and protecting her close relationships as her primary nervous system resource. The intrusive self-critical thoughts, she explains, are her version of self-equalizing: a nervous system response to perceived loss of control that she is learning to accept.Relevant ResourcesWhat Is PDA — Foundation for understanding the internalized pathological demand avoidance profile Casey describes in this episode.Burnout — Free class with context for the burnout patterns Casey traces across her own life.Finding Meaning — Free class relevant for parents and adults exploring acceptance and long-term perspective.

I speak with Stephanie Harrigan, a certified speech language pathologist with nearly fifteen years of experience working with the neurodiverse population, to talk about selective mutism, feeding therapy and more.Stephanie brings a regulation-first, child-led approach to all of her work, and this conversation is full of concrete examples from her practice, including what feeding therapy actually looks like when it follows the child's lead, how she has worked with selectively mute children, and what she has seen happen to communication when behavioral pressure is removed.We also talk about how to advocate effectively with a school team and what research Stephanie uses when making the case for a non-behavioral approach.Stephanie can be reached at Inclusive Minds Educational Consulting via inclusivemindsllc@gmail.com.Key TakeawaysRegulation Before Skills, Always | 00:07:00 Stephanie describes how her approach across all of her work, whether feeding, Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) speech therapy, or selective mutism, starts with regulation. She references her time at the Center for Discovery, where the entire program was built on the belief that sensory and emotional regulation is the foundation. Without it, she says, everything else crumbles. She uses the analogy of a house: regulation is the foundation, and speech and communication goals sit on top of it. What Child-Led Feeding Therapy Looks Like | 00:18:32 Stephanie gives two concrete examples from her feeding therapy work. One student only ate hot dogs at age sixteen. Rather than introducing new foods directly, she used the student's interest in small figurines to interact playfully with food. Another student loved baking but would not eat what they made, so they baked together and delivered food across campus. Stephanie explains that child-led feeding therapy means finding the child's special interest and embedding it into the work, with no timeline for progress and no pressure toward any specific outcome. Selective Mutism and the Role of Safety | 00:24:28 Stephanie describes working with a kindergarten student who was described by staff as someone who never spoke. In her first session with him, he spoke immediately. She attributes this to the felt safety she worked to establish before anything else. She describes how she uses a total communication approach, honors every form of communication including grunting and hissing, and matches the child's energy rather than bringing high excitement.AAC Is Not a Last Resort | 00:30:29 Stephanie explains what AAC is and pushes back on the common concern that using a device will prevent a child from learning to speak. She draws a parallel to what Casey describes with PDA children more broadly: the issue is often not that the child lacks the ability, but that at times stress and sensory dysregulation are blocking access to that ability. She describes seeing communication expand when sensory needs were addressed first, and frames AAC as one tool in a total communication approach rather than a replacement for speech.How to Work With a School Team as a PDA Parent | 00:48:57 Stephanie's advice for parents trying to collaborate with a school team is to not be afraid to advocate. She says she has never viewed a parent as challenging, and that strong advocacy is not only a parent's right but something she personally appreciates. She suggests sharing resources from a place of curiosity rather than confrontation, asking for the team's expertise, and framing questions as "I found this and I'm curious what you think" rather than leading with disagreement. Relevant ResourcesWhat Is PDA — Foundation for understanding the nervous system lens Stephanie and Casey shareSchool, Screens and Siblings — A free class relevant for families navigating school-based challenges discussed in this episodeUnderstanding PDA — A free class for deeper context on regulation and autonomy

This is the fourth episode in my series on PDA and restrictive eating, and this one is for therapists. If you are an occupational therapist, a speech language pathologist, or another type of therapist working with a child who isn't responding to gentle, play-based, sensory-based, or exposure-based feeding approaches the way you'd expect, this episode designed to help you. I share the full arc of my older son Cooper's journey with extremely restrictive eating, from the time he was four and a half years old and eating primarily three processed foods, through five years of occupational therapy, to where he is today. I walk through how we adapted the SOS feeding protocol over time to incorporate autonomy, equality, lower demands, play, and connection to special interests. I also share five specific strategies you can bring into your sessions.Key TakeawaysThe Sensory Lens Is Not Enough | 00:02:04 I share how Cooper's restrictive eating was initially understood through a sensory lens, and how, for about a year and a half, that framing guided his therapy. But the sensory lens alone was not sufficient to explain the patterns I was seeing or to help him expand his eating. What I came to understand was that his survival drive for autonomy was also a major factor, and that the two had to be held together rather than treated separately.What Was and Was Not Working | 00:11:56 I walk through what was working in the early stages of occupational therapy, specifically the therapist's focus on establishing relationship and rapport before moving to skill acquisition, and the role that dopamine, novelty, and sensory-intense experiences played in Cooper's initial engagement. I also describe what was not working: visual schedules and laminated choice boards, pressure to describe sensory experiences verbally, and structured home-based feeding protocols. For a PDA child, I explain, even chosen structure can become an internal demand.Autonomy and Equality as Accommodations | 00:16:37 I describe two specific accommodations that became central to how we approached feeding therapy over five years: autonomy and equality. Autonomy meant shifting away from scheduled, structured feeding time and toward strewing, declarative language, and following Cooper's lead. Equality meant deliberately allowing him to win, be above the therapist and me in games, direct the session, and have the last word. I explain how these accommodations address the root cause of nervous system activation rather than managing the surface behavior.Lowering Demands in the Session | 00:29:35 I describe what it looked like to lower demands in the occupational therapy session itself, meaning doing things for Cooper that he was cognitively or physically capable of doing himself, so that his available capacity could go toward tolerating and engaging with food. I give specific examples and I address the common concern that this approach enables children rather than building independence, and explain why the logic is different for PDA.Special Interests as a Turning Point | 00:37:06 I describe the turning point in Cooper's feeding therapy, which came when eating became connected to his special interest in football. I explain how this connection made it possible to revisit things he had previously rejected, including the laminated food charts, but this time entirely on his terms. I also offer five specific strategies for therapists at the end of the episode.Relevant ResourcesFree Therapist Masterclass — Free class for OTs and therapists on PDA.What Is PDA? — Overview of PDA as a nervous system disability.Paradigm Shift Program —Our signature live coaching program where we walk families as they implement accommodations and move forward.

Into every parent's life, a child will eventually say the word no. It's expected, developmental, and usually short lived. Except when it isn't. For a growing number of parents, “no” becomes the soundtrack of daily life. Even simple requests—getting dressed, starting homework, brushing teeth—can spark intense resistance. Many families are now turning to a term they feel captures this extreme, persistent pushback: Pathological Demand Avoidance, or PDA. Yet PDA is controversial. It isn't an official diagnosis, and experts debate whether it reflects a distinct autism profile or a child's attempt to cope with overwhelming anxiety. But families living this reality share a truth: their children aren't trying to be difficult—they're trying to feel safe. And when parents shift from “You have to” to “How can we make this doable?”, conflict eases and connection grows.On this episode, we travel to Michigan to meet the Lozen family who have embraced low demand parenting and discovered that reducing pressure can open doors. Next, our national leaders help us untangle the controversy, the science, and the lived experience behind PDA. And, we spotlight actor and advocate Patrick McKenna, whose honesty about ADHD has helped countless families feel seen.

If you've heard me talk about autonomy, equality, and lowering demands before and thought, "But what does that actually look like at the dinner table?" — this episode is for you.This is the third episode in my series on eating and PDA, and it's the most practical one yet. I'm walking you through six concrete accommodations you can experiment with if your PDA child or teen struggles with restrictive eating: autonomy, equality, lowering demands, sensory accommodations, strewing, and novelty and dopamine. Throughout the episode, I share anonymized client anecdotes and real examples from my own life as a mother of two PDA sons — including how our family navigated mealtimes during the hardest years and what things look like now.This episode is meant to be an experiment you can try out and observe, not a prescription. I hope it it's helpful for you.Key TakeawaysWhy Restrictive Eating Happens | 00:00:00 Before getting into the practical tips, I revisit the causal logic for why eating is so often impacted in PDA children and teens. Control around eating tends to be the outcome of cumulative nervous system stress, and is often an attempt to reset autonomy and equality when a child can't find it in other areas of their life.Autonomy Around What, Where, When, How, and If | 00:03:43 I break down autonomy into five buckets — what, where, when, how, and if a child eats — and explain how each one shows up in practice. This includes examples from my own home, like allowing my son to eat in front of a screen for years, delivering food on demand, offering a buffet of options, and giving treats before or with meals without attaching conditions.Equality and Why It Matters at the Table | 00:22:41 I walk through what I mean by equality as a nervous system accommodation around food — not as a philosophical concept, but as something you can observe and act on. I share the story of how our family friend houseguests helped re-establish family dinners, and how my son Cooper started joining us at the table by running a drawing game where he was the judge and ranked all of us — an equality accommodation I sustained for about a year.Lowering Demands and the Sensory Intersection | 00:27:56 I explain what lowering demands actually means in the context of eating: doing things for your child they could technically do themselves, in service of helping them access food. I share examples like packing a 16-year-old's lunch, delivering pizza reheated to the exact right temperature, cutting crusts off bread, and wiping out Tupperware to eliminate even a molecule of moisture.Strewing, Novelty, and Dopamine | 00:35:51 I cover strewing — leaving food out without expectation — and why it works differently from direct offerings. I also share how we used novelty and dopamine in my son's feeding therapy, including a "game show" approach to sampling every variety of apple, and cutting apples into stars or making apple pasta with a Zoodler. I end with my hypothesis about why PDA individuals tend to seek dopamine, and what that means for how we can think about introducing foods.Relevant ResourcesWhat Is PDA — Background on PDA as a nervous system disabilityUnderstanding PDA — Deeper dive into PDA frameworks and accommodationsParadigm Shift Program — Our signature live coaching program where we walk with families as they implement accommodations and move their family forward.

In this episode — Part 2 of our series on eating and PDA — I walk through the 10 misconceptions about eating that I personally had to unlearn in order to help my son. These are beliefs that are completely reasonable for most children and even most neurodivergent children, but do not apply to pathologically demand avoidant kids and teens. I cover why "kids will eat when they're hungry" isn't empirically true for PDAers, why behavioral approaches (even gentle ones) can backfire, why restricting sugar may not be the strategy you think it is, and why looking at eating in isolation misses the bigger picture of cumulative nervous system stress.I also share what the research does and doesn't tell us, where the methodology gaps are when it comes to neurodivergence, and what has actually changed in our home over the years. If the approaches you've been trying aren't working — or are making things worse — this episode is for you.Key TakeawaysPDA Kids Won't Just "Eat When Hungry" | 00:05:52 I explain how PDA is defined by a survival drive for autonomy and equality that consistently overrides other survival instincts — including hunger. Even when a child is physiologically hungry, the internalized demand of needing to eat, combined with cumulative nervous system stress, can make eating impossible.Behavioral Methods Activate the Nervous System | 00:09:20 I walk through why behavioral approaches to feeding — including gentle ones like sticker charts, food rewards, or even subtly positive facial expressions — can backfire with PDA children. Because PDA is rooted in threat perception tied to autonomy, any method where a parent or therapist is the "decider" can trigger a nervous system response that makes eating harder, not easier.Restrictive Eating Is a Symptom, Not the Problem | 00:14:33 I describe how restrictive eating is often a tipping point — a symptom of cumulative nervous system stress that has built up over weeks, months, and sometimes years. Rather than focusing only on what happens at the moment of eating, I explain why it's important to look at the full picture of a child's daily life and accommodate across the board.Sensory Strategies Alone Won't Transform Eating | 00:26:15 I share how sensory-based feeding approaches, even fun and play-based ones, can still backfire if there isn't enough autonomy built in. I use an example from my own son's feeding therapy to illustrate how the lack of autonomy around engaging in a sensory protocol was causing him to avoid even the activities he enjoyed.Sugar, Bento Boxes, and Family Meals Reconsidered | 00:31:09 I go through several misconceptions I personally had to unlearn — including the idea that sugar is the main enemy, that colorful bento box meals represent good parenting, and that home-cooked family meals at regular times naturally lead to healthy eating. I share how I came to think about these differently for PDA children, including what actually changed in my own home over time.Relevant ResourcesWhat is PDA - a foundational overview of PDA as a nervous system disability.Free Burnout Masterclass - understand the burnout that can make restrictive eating so challenging for PDA kids.Paradigm Shift Program® - our signature live program where we support parents to help their PDA children and teens through and out of burnout so their whole family can thrive.CitationsLove Me, Feed Me - book by Katja Rowell.Schaefer, Michael, et al. "Experiencing sweet taste is associated with an increase in prosocial behavior." Scientific Reports 13.1 (2023): 1954.Hammons, Amber J., and Barbara H. Fiese. "Is frequency of shared family meals related to the nutritional health of children and adolescents?" Pediatrics 127.6 (2011): e1565-e1574.

Welcome back to Everymum the podcast, I'm Aisling Keenan. When you imagine what parenting will look like, you tend to picture something linear: milestones ticked off, routines falling into place, a general sense that even when things are hard, they're at least a bit predictable. But for many parents, that couldn't be further from the reality. Today's conversation is about what happens when the script you thought you were following no longer applies and how you find your footing when you're navigating something far more complex, and far less understood. I'm joined by my lovely friend Caroline Foran, author and journalist, who's here to talk about her experience parenting her son, and the journey to understanding his autism and PDA profile. PDA stands for Pathological Demand Avoidance, a term that, for many, is still unfamiliar, and often misunderstood. In this episode, Caroline shares the long and sometimes frustrating process of seeking answers, and how a diagnosis can bring both clarity and a whole new set of questions. We talk about the emotional reality behind the labels: the guilt, the doubt, the advocacy, and the constant recalibration that comes with parenting a neurodivergent child. We also get into what PDA actually means in day-to-day life, why traditional parenting strategies often don't work, and how shifting your approach can transform not just your child's experience, but your relationship with them too. This is a conversation about letting go of expectations, learning to see your child for who they are, and finding a different kind of confidence as a parent, one that's built not on control, but on understanding. Here's Caroline, and I'll be back next week with more Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of Raising Autistic Disciples, Larah sits down with her friend Angie for an honest, VERY vulnerable, practical, and gospel-centered conversation about PDA, or Pathological Demand Avoidance.Larah comes into this conversation the same way many parents do, with questions. What is PDA really? How does it show up in everyday life? How do you parent a child who experiences demands, correction, and ordinary expectations in a very different way? And how do you hold on to a gospel lens while learning new ways to understand your child?Angie helps walk through the core traits often connected to a PDA profile, while also giving parents language, examples, and encouragement for the moments that can feel confusing, exhausting, or misunderstood. Together, they talk about nervous system survival, regulation, masking, parenting misconceptions, and why understanding how our kids are wired can help us better disciple them.This episode is especially for the parent who has felt overwhelmed, behind, or unsure where to even begin. You are not failing by learning as you go. And learning your child more deeply is not moving away from discipleship. It is part of faithful stewardship.In this episode: What PDA is and why many parents are still learning about it How PDA can affect everyday parenting moments Why demands, chores, and correction can feel so intense for some kids The difference between behavior that looks defiant and a nervous system in survival mode How to think about PDA through a gospel-centered lensLinks Mentioned:How to know if your child is PDA @ At Peace Parents:https://www.atpeaceparents.com/clarityExtreme Demand Avoidance Questionaire:https://share.google/d7zSPbSOdN8vfBpzeNew ESA-8 questionnaire:https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources/extreme-demand-avoidance-8-item-measure-eda-8/PDA North America:https://pdanorthamerica.org/

In this episode I speak with a mom who knows the PDA lens is the right approach for her 9-year-old adopted son, but is having difficulty getting her husband and parents on board. We also discussed:Understanding her adopted son through the PDA Lens, rather than a disorgnanized attachment lensFraming with her husband trying lowered demands and more autonomy as an experiment so that the stakes don't feel so highExamples of non-violent communication requests with the grandparents, so that they don't correct the child at the dinner tableDropping the desire to "convince" or "explain" Pathological Demand Avoidance to people in her life I hope it is helpful to you :) xo, CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

Love this clip? Check out the full episode: Episode #352: The Kids Who Can't Be Told What To Do: PDA & Low-Demand Parenting (With Casey Ehrlich)Listen to the full conversation in the original episode HERE.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, I spoke with Kendahl Damashek about the concept of radical acceptance while parenting a PDA child. Kendahl is a PDA autistic mother with four PDA children 10 and under. (She's also one of the wonderful coaches on our team.)In the conversation we spoke about:

Join Sue for an upcoming Live Virtual Workshop where you will learn from Sue practical tips & strategies to make a difference. In this episode, we will discuss: ✅ PDA vs ODD: PDA is autism-based; ODD recognizes authority. ✅ Authenticity Essential: PDA individuals instantly detect false or inauthentic behavior. ✅ Real Choices: Offer exactly two options, never open-ended. ✅ Structure Plus Autonomy: Combine routine with freedom like holidays. ✅ Shared Demands: Working together halves perceived anxiety and demands. ✅ Fresh Daily Starts: Each day deserves a clean slate. ✅ Emotional Honesty: Model feeling words and processing aloud. Read more about this podcast in the show notes found via the link below suelarkey.com.au/pda-odd-difference Join the Facebook group specifically for this podcast www.facebook.com/groups/suelarkeypodcastcommunity/ Join my Neurodiversity Network suelarkey.com.au/neurodiversity-network/ Follow my Instagram account for regular tips www.instagram.com/sue.larkey/ To learn more about teaching or understanding ASD, please visit my website below. elearning.suelarkey.com.au

In this episode I speak with Pam, a mother of twin PDA 10-year-olds and a third younger sibling.Pam has been parenting through a PDA lens for years, but one of the twins is having a harder time than the other. We talked about ways to support him, as well as mindsets that can help Pam when she worries that progress is moving slowly, and feels grief.These are experiences common to most if not all parents of PDAers, and I am sure her story will resonate with many listeners.xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

Join Dr. Donald Bearden, a pediatric psychologist, as he unpacks the complexities of pathological demand avoidance (PDA). This episode explores how everyday requests can trigger anxiety in children in children with PDA. Discover effective parenting strategies that focus on emotional regulation and collaboration.  Learn more about Donald Bearden, PhD, ABPP-CN, FAES 

In this episode I speak with Christopher Deutsch, a PDA angel investor about his own life and the how some of the common traits of PDA can be beneficial to a career in entrepreneurialism. I loved having this conversation, and hope you'll enjoy listening!xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.Mentioned in this episode:Want to check out our special "Try Before You Buy" offer for the Paradigm Shift Program. Use the link below to learn more and join the program waitlist to get access to the offer.Paradigm Shift Program

Rachel Kapp, M.Ed., BCET, and Stephanie Pitts, M.Ed., BCET welcome Claudia, a former parent from My Ed Therapist, to the podcast. Claudia shares her journey with her daughter, Emma, who is autistic, has ADHD, and has Pathological Demand Avoidance (or “Persistent Demand for Autonomy”). Claudia shares about the impact of these diagnoses on her relationship with Emma and the family. She shares about how Stephanie's rapport had a tremendous impact on Emma's ability to be more flexible. She shares about the difficult decision to transition schools and the importance sports had for Emma. They chat about the role of perfectionism, how they approached the college decision, the importance of prioritizing the relationship with your child, and examining Claudia's role as the parent. Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/learnsmarterpodcast   How to connect with us: Join our e-mail list Rachel's Kapp Educational Therapy Group website Steph's My Ed Therapist website  @learnsmarterpodcast, @kappedtherapy, @myedtherapist   Other episodes mentioned:  Ep 309: Pathological Demand Avoidance with Diane Gould (Professionals Series)

Send me a Text Message. I'm getting personal in this episode of Pattern Shift — recorded from my brand new praktijk in Rotterdam. I trace why I bootstrapped from 300 euros, refused investors, never built a conventional team, and kept rebuilding the brand. I name Pathological Demand Avoidance directly and connect it to my lifelong distrust of the ready-made — in business, fashion, and a painting I found on the side of the road last week. From sour puss to happy kitty: on curiosity as the antidote to cynicism, and three questions to find out where you're running on borrowed structure. You know me as a guide, mentor and teacher, but I've also set off on a new adventure, coaching. Coaching gets a bad rep sometimes, but when it's done right, it can be really transformational. As part of my coaching education, I'll soon need to do real coaching sessions. And it could be a really great opportunity for you to experience it at no or low cost. If you've ever been curious about working with me in this way, now's the time. Just send me an email: info@ja-wol.comSupport the show☆ other ways to SUPPORT THE SHOW ☆ If you appreciate the free content and the work we put into this podcast, consider showing your support in a way that feels right to you. This could be by sharing episodes with friends, signing up for our newsletter, or making a small monthly contribution by clicking the Support the Show link. Your support keeps the podcast going and aligns with the values we share. Thank you for being a part of this movement! ☞ GET MAIL ☜☆ SIGN UP HERE! ☆ ☞ FIND OTHER BUSINESS OWNERS IN OUR COMMUNITY SPACE ☜☆JOIN THE CONVERSATION☆ Have a question? Want to offer your opinion? Do you have an idea for a guest or topic? info@ja-wol.com or leave me a voice message!

Pathological Demand Avoidance / Pervasive Drive for Autonomy - With Owen, Alice & Philippa (Episode Six)   In this sixth episode of the ND and Free Podcast Owen and his co-hosts Alice Cantwell & Philippa Balazs discuss how PDA shows up, how we can work with it and why needing autonomy is okay.    Want us to talk about a topic you would like unpack then DM us on social media or email ndandfree@gmail.com     Check out our Linktree To Explore all our Partners and Services - https://linktr.ee/ndandfree    MORE ON ALICE   Hear her 1-1 Episode on the Pod - Episode 30 - https://open.spotify.com/episode/7IkVftqDPDbtJlpMocTVWL?si=e420b64300b84e7d   Alice is a Neurodivergent Assessor and speech and language therapist and runs her business Bold Mind ND.   Follow links for more on Alice's and her work   LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-cantwell-80aa7a229/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/share/1AVjCMJFD6/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/boldmindsnd?igsh=MWEyd2Y2NzN0dmx5aA==     MORE ON PHILIPPA Hear her 1-1 Episode on the Pod - Episode 50 - https://open.spotify.com/episode/7kGEQULLpUjqosWh7wQBpG?si=43a975945636412e Philippa Balazs is a Kent-based AuDHD therapist and advocate. She runs a thriving private practice “Flourish with Philippa” where she specialises in late diagnosis, high masking women, and supporting ND parents with ND kids. She is also training to be a ADHD Coach. Check out Philippa's links.  Website - https://www.flourish-counselling.co.uk/ Linktree - https://linktr.ee/flourish_with_philippa Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/flourish_with_philippa/  Misophonia Article - https://www.autistictherapistdirectory.com/post/misophonia-when-everyday-sounds-feel-unbearable   These conversations are not a substitute for professional medical or therapeutic support. Please seek support from professionals trained within Neurodiversity support. Listen to episodes with care. Keep up to date with our latest posts on Instagram. Thank you for supporting the show,  Owen

In this episode I speak with a mom about her 17 year old PDA son's substance abuse, as well as his near constant presence in the family living room and the impact this has on their household. We talk through the mother's preference for her son to be home and physically safe -- instead of out and in danger, as he has been in the past -- and the cost of this for her and their family. We discuss all of this in the context of the son recently earning his GED and wanting to get a job. I hope you find the conversation helpful. xo, CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.Mentioned in this episode:Want to check out our special "Try Before You Buy" offer for the Paradigm Shift Program. Use the link below to learn more and join the program waitlist to get access to the offer.Paradigm Shift Program

This is the third episode of our three-part series on navigating hygiene with your PDA child or teen. (Pathological Demand Avoidance/Pervasive Drive for Autonomy)In this episode, I talk through practical strategies to support a PDA child or teen with the following: Bathing and ShoweringHair WashingHair BrushingNail Clipping Hand WashingGetting Dressed I also discuss the logic of why accessing hygiene is difficult of some PDA children and teens, help you prioritize which hygiene practices *actually* matter to health and well-being and which you may be able to let go, and provide tons of examples of how to use accommodations such as: Lowering demandsAutonomyEqualityNoveltyI hope this episode lowers your stress level as a parent and gives you creative ideas to experiment with as you provide caregiving to your PDA child or teen!xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.Mentioned in this episode:Want to check out our special "Try Before You Buy" offer for the Paradigm Shift Program. Use the link below to learn more and join the program waitlist to get access to the offer.Paradigm Shift Program

This is the second episode in our three-part series on hygiene and PDA. In this episode we deep dive on helping your PDA child or teen go to the dentist and brush their teeth.Specifically, we support parents (and therapists) to understand:Why teeth brushing and going to the dentist are so difficult for PDA children and teensPractical tips they can use to help a PDA child or teen access teeth brushingSpecific examples of how to use autonomy, equality, lowered demands, novelty, and humor to support a PDA child or teen's teeth brushingStrategies and example scripts to use when speaking to the dentist or dental hygienist before your child or teen goes to their next appointment.I hope you find it helpful!xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

This is the first of three episodes about hygiene and Pathological Demand Avoidance. In this episode I focused on how to think about PDA and hygiene struggles, and understanding the root cause of struggles around:Teeth brushing Going to the dentistShowering and bathingHair washingHand washingNail clippingHair cuttingGetting dressedMore specifically, in this episode I talk through:The Deep Why behind hygiene strugglesSensory vs. Autonomy as a root cause of avoidanceThe cumulative nature of PDA and control coalescing around a basic need (in this case hygiene)Discernment - Asking yourself the right questions about burnout and whether hygiene is the "stickiest" basic need for your child or teen.Decision-making around boundaries before we worry about accommodationsI hope you find the show helpful. I'll release two more episodes on hygiene soon!xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

In this episode Clinical Psychologist Dr. Alex Klein and I discuss ten common misconceptions about Pathological Demand Avoidance or Pervasive Drive for Autonomy.Here are five from Dr. Klein:The parent of a PDAer is doing something wrong, especially if they've lowered demands.If a PDA child did something yesterday, they can do it again today.Accommodations won't prepare PDA kids for the real world.Progress made by a PDA child is measured by what we see on the surface.Behaviorism (behavioral parenting) will be enough.And here are five from me, in strong collaboration with my PDA 11- and 7-year-olds:PDA kids are bad kids.How much freedom PDA kids need.It's not behavioral, it's stress.Why and when they can hide nervous system stress.Potatoes are green and they smell like poop :)I hope the episode is helpful to you!xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

This episode is for parents who are interested in toilet training in a PDA-informed way.This the third episode in my three-part series on toileting and Pathological Demand Avoidance.In this episode I cover toilet/potty training with your PDA child or teen. Specifically, I cover the following:Is my child or teen in a good place for toilet training?Story of toilet training my older son before I knew of PDA, and why I think it still worked (spoiler - we intuitively did a lot of accommodating).10 tips for if and when you decide to toilet train your PDA child or teen.I hope this is helpful for you and your family.xoxo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

How much of your existence is shrouded in resistance? Something a lot of us gifted autistics feel resistance towards is the needs of the human body. Food, water, sleep, bathroom… Every bodily demand feels like an interruption, a violation of autonomy. As Kathi shared in today's group podcast, her father literally says “I want to decide when I want to eat. I don't want my body to tell me when to eat!” If you have PDA (officially “Pathological Demand Avoidance” but I prefer the term “Pervasive Drive for Autonomy”), rejecting bodily needs is an attempt to preserve autonomy. Through this lens, the eating disorder – the ultimate rejection of bodily needs – can almost be seen as an extreme manifestation of PDA. Of course, the paradox is that the ED itself is a violation of autonomy…because when your every next move is decided by the ED force, well you ain't so much “in control” anymore, eh? In today's episode of the Liv Label Free Podcast, we dive DEEP into eating disorders and PDA, as well as: How diagnoses help validate our struggles Intergenerational patterns of resisting bodily needs Why mental hunger is a legitimate hunger signal (Kathi shares a great metaphor!) Franz Kafka's “A Hunger Artist” and existential loneliness Why recovery requires surrender before proof I know how “claustrophobic” it can feel to be an infinite soul contained in a human body costume. But as I've been reminding myself lately, suffering is amplified by resisting what is. XO Liv P.S. Want to join these live group calls and connect with other neurodivergent beings on this discovery journey? The Liv Label Free Membership includes 3x monthly group calls, 24/7 WhatsApp support, my extreme hunger course, continued access to the Autistically ED-Free Academy, and hours of previously recorded coaching calls.

Click here to send us a topic idea or question for Weekend Wisdom.Are you familiar with pathological demand avoidance? Do you need helpful strategies to raise a child with the challenging behaviors that characterize PDA? Listen in to this conversation with Dr. Cynthia Martin, a clinical psychologist, the former Senior Director of the Autism Center at the Child Mind Institute, and founder of CM Psychology in Manhattan, NY.In this episode, we discuss:What is Pathological Demand Avoidance?What makes PDA different from typical defiance or resistance?Is PDA considered an official diagnosis, or is it more of a way to describe a cluster of behaviors that we're seeing in some kids?What do we know about the underlying causes?How does PDA relate to other conditions like autism or ADHD? What are the overlaps with trauma, prenatal substance exposure??What are the types of behaviors parents or caregivers might see?How can a caregiver tell the difference between a child who can't comply and one who won't comply?Where do parents start when considering if their child has a PDA profile?What observations or examples should parents share to help a clinician understand their child's challenges?What kinds of strategies are effective for parenting a child with PDA traits?How can parents reframe their approach so that daily demands — like getting dressed, brushing teeth, or doing homework — don't turn into constant battles?What types of therapies or interventions tend to be most helpful? What do you say to caregivers who are feeling worn down and ineffective? Where do they start?How can a parent or caregiver set their child up for success even if they do have this PDA profile?What words of hope or encouragement would you offer to parents and caregivers just starting to investigate?Resources:Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in Kids - Child Mind InstituteDemand Avoidance: Why Kids Refuse to Follow Directions - Psychology TodaySymptom Tests for Children: Is Your Child Showing Signs of Pathological Demand Avoidance? - ADDitude: ADHD Science & StrategiesUnstuck & On Target - Evidence-Based Curricula and Resources for Professionals and Families to Support Executive Functions.Support the showPlease leave us a rating or review. This podcast is produced by www.CreatingaFamily.org. We are a national non-profit with the mission to strengthen and inspire adoptive, foster & kinship parents and the professionals who support them.Creating a Family brings you the following trauma-informed, expert-based content: Weekly podcasts Weekly articles/blog posts Resource pages on all aspects of family building

This is my second of three episodes about toileting and PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance or Pervasive Drive for Autonomy).This episode is focused on what to do if your child has challenges with:1 - Wiping2 - Accidents3 - Holding and constipation4 - Pooping outside the toilet5 - Peeing outside the toiletOf course, I'm talking through taking a PDA/nervous system approach to helping your child or teen with these challenges. If you want to take a deeper dive into understanding why your PDA child or teen has these challenges, please check out my previous podcast episode (Ep. 142).Also, in this episode I mention the decision making process I teach parents who are trying to decide when they should change their child or teen's diaper if doing so causes activation. If you want to learn more about making such decisions (or others), I teach how to do so in my free masterclass: School, Screens and Siblings, Oh My! Here's a link to where you can sign up for it for free:https://at-peace-parents-podcast.captivate.fm/sssohxo,Casey

This is my first of three episodes about toileting and PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance or Pervasive Drive for Autonomy).This episode is focused on how to think about toileting over the long term with your PDA child or teen. Specifically, I talk through:1 - Your questions in the following categories: wiping, holding and constipation, potty training, going outside the toilet, and accidents2 - Logic and root cause of toileting struggles through the PDA lens3 - What a stickiest basic need is and whether or not your child is in burnout4 - 5 things to try in your home now5 - Tracking progress so you can see clearly if this approach is helping your childI hope it's a helpful episode for you.Xo,CaseyPS - New to PDA? You can take our free 6-minute quiz to learn how well your child or teen fits the profile.

This week the hosts answer questions from a writer who resents a frenemy from their youth, a parent who's child appears to have pathological demand avoidance, and a writer trying to quit smoking during their breaks from work. Check out Nick's "Fitness Challenge": https://www.mentalfitpersonaltraining.com/podtherapy Join our patreon!Listen ad-free, get the show a day early and enjoy the pre-show hang out on the same app you're using RIGHT NOW at www.Patreon.com/Therapy where you can also access our vast library of deep dives, interviews, skill shares, reviews and rants as well as our live discord chat!If you are an Apple user please rate us!If you are a Spotify user, please rate us!Submit a question to the show!Help us reach #1 on Goodpods!Interested in Nick's mental health approach to fitness? Check out www.MentalFitPersonalTraining.comCheck out Dr. Jim's book "Dadvice: 50 Fatherly Life Lessons" at www.DadviceBook.comGrab some swag at our store, www.PodTherapyBaitShop.comPlay Jim's Neurotic Bingo at home while you listen to the show, or don't, I'm not your supervisor.Submit questions to:www.PodTherapy.netPodTherapyGuys@gmail.comFollow us on Social Media:FacebookInstagramTwitterResources:Suicide Prevention Lifeline - 1-800-273-8255.Veterans Crisis Line - 1-800-273-8255.Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) National Helpline - (1-800-662-HELP (4357)OK2Talk Helpline Teen Helpline - 1 (800) 273-TALKU.S. Mental Health Resources Hotline - 211

Children with PDA are extremely sensitive to real or perceived demands and may make excuses, use delay tactics, or outright refuse to complete requests. Learn more about PDA from Diane Gould, LCSW, including proven behavioral strategies and supports. Pathological Demand Avoidance: Resources Free Download: Why Is My Child So Defiant? Self-Test: Is Your Child Showing Signs of Pathological Demand Avoidance? Read: When Angry Kids Lash Out: How to Defuse Explosive Reactions Read: A Parent's Guide to Navigating Pathological Demand Avoidance Access the video and slides for podcast episode #590 here: https://www.additudemag.com/webinar/pathological-demand-avoidance-adhd-autism/ This episode is brought to you by SOAR Summer Camp. Learn more at soarnc.org. This episode is also brought to you by Neuroclinic USA. Learn more at NeuroclinicUSA.com. This episode is also brought to you by NOCD, the world's leading provider of specialized OCD treatment. Learn more at https://learn.nocd.com/ADHDExperts. Thank you for listening to ADDitude's ADHD Experts podcast. Please consider subscribing to the magazine (additu.de/subscribe) to support our mission of providing ADHD education and support.

Finding resources for parents of children with PDA can provide useful tools and help with addressing behavioral challenges.Episode TranscriptFor more on this story and for others like it, visit the Health Lab website where you can subscribe to our Health Lab newsletters to receive the latest in health research and information to your inbox each week. Health Lab is a part of the Michigan Medicine Podcast Network, and is produced by the Michigan Medicine Department of Communication. You can listen to Health Lab wherever you get your podcasts. All Health Lab content including health news, best practices and research insights are for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for professional medical guidance. Always seek the advice of a health care provider for questions about your health and treatment options. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey everyone! We're taking our own advice this week and looking after our energy levels — both of us enjoying a week off post-Christmas to get back into our routines and doing our best to avoid PDA. So instead of a brand-new episode today, we're re-running one of our most popular and meaningful conversations. Thank you so much for your understanding as we take a breather — so please enjoy one of our favourite episodes from 2025.Struggling with everyday tasks as a neurodivergent adult? In this candid and insightful episode of The Neurodivergent Experience, hosts Jordan James and Simon Scott unpack the lived reality of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) — a form of demand sensitivity often misunderstood, dismissed, or mislabelled as laziness.From dodging the dishwasher to putting off doctor's appointments, and from procrastinating over paperwork to resisting even self-imposed goals, we explore:What PDA really is — and why the NHS still doesn't formally recognise itHow demands (even ones we place on ourselves) trigger an instant “no” responseThe link between PDA, trauma, anxiety, and the obsessive need for autonomyWhy even fun things can feel impossible once they become obligationsPractical examples: chores, eating, car washes, and the endless hurdle race of daily lifePartner strategies — how reframing demands as favours can unlock cooperationWhy small wins matter: celebrating every task completed as a genuine victoryHow to create accommodations that turn mountains back into molehillsWhether you're living with PDA yourself, raising a neurodivergent child, or just want to understand why “simple” tasks aren't simple at all, this conversation blends raw honesty, humour, and real-world strategies for navigating life when demand avoidance touches everything.❤️ Support the ShowIf this episode resonated with you:✅ Follow or Subscribe to The Neurodivergent Experience⭐ Leave a quick review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

What happens when hunger feels like a demand, and demands feel like threats?In this episode, Allyson Ford, MA, LPCC (@bodyjustice.therapist) is joined by Livia (@livlabelfree) for a neurodivergent-affirming conversation about PDA and eating disorders. While PDA is often labeled “Pathological Demand Avoidance,” the neurodiversity affirming movement invites a different frame: Persistent Drive for Autonomy: a nervous-system response rooted in the need for safety and agency.Together, we talk about:Why standard eating disorder treatment can mirror ED rigidity (protocol over person)How being labeled “defiant” or “treatment resistant” can miss the real need underneathReframing “control” as safety and survival adaptationWhy “recovery” can feel vague, pressurized, or even coercive; and how “discovery” offers a more spacious alternativeWhat affirming care can look like for PDA-ers with eating disordersFind Livia's work: @livlabelfree | livlabelfree.comConnect with Allyson: @bodyjustice.therapistDisclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not provide individual therapeutic, psychological, or medical advice. For personalized support, please consult a qualified licensed professional.

In this reprise episode, I'm revisiting an important conversation with Dr. Michael Selbst and Dr. Jeniffer Cruz about Pathological Demand Avoidance, often called PDA. I began getting more questions about PDA as clinicians and parents shared concerns about students who weren't responding to traditional strategies and seemed to escalate around even small or well-intended demands.In this episode, we break down what PDA is and how it's currently understood. While PDA is not a formal diagnosis in the United States, it's often described internationally as a profile rooted in anxiety and a strong drive for control. Dr. Selbst and Dr. Cruz explain how both explicit demands, like being told to complete a task, and implied demands, such as routines or social expectations, can trigger a fight, flight, or freeze response.We also explore why compliance-based systems and reward-driven approaches often don't work for learners with this profile. Even positive strategies can increase anxiety when they rely on external control. Instead, this conversation focuses on shifting toward collaboration over compliance, building trust, and reducing power struggles so regulation can come first.What I appreciate most is how practical this discussion is. We talk about language, tone, and small changes adults can make to better support regulation, communication, and independence.#autism #speechtherapyWhat's Inside:What Pathological Demand Avoidance is and how it differs from defiance or noncomplianceWhy anxiety-driven responses make compliance-based strategies ineffectiveHow shifting from compliance to collaboration supports regulation and trustPractical ways to adjust language, expectations, and support for PDA learnersMentioned In This Episode:Dr. Selbst and Dr. Cruz have the authority to practice interjurisdictional telepsychology (APIT) from the PSYPACT commission, allowing them to provide telepsychology to clients in many states. To see if your state is included, please click on this link: https://psypact.site-ym.com/page/psypactmap PDA SocietyBehavior Therapy AssociatesJoin the aba speech connection  ABA Speech: Home

This episode is back by popular demand—and for good reason. One of the most requested and talked-about conversations on The Autism Little Learners Podcast, this replay dives into Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) with licensed psychologist Dr. Taylor Day. In this episode, we explore PDA as a profile within autism, with a strong focus on nervous system differences, autonomy, and the fight-or-flight response. Dr. Tay shares why traditional behavior-based approaches often miss the mark for children with PDA and offers compassionate, practical insights for parents and educators who want to support children in ways that truly work. If you're navigating intense demand avoidance, burnout, or power struggles—or supporting a child who needs a more flexible, relationship-based approach—this conversation is a must-listen (or re-listen).

In this episode, Paul and Ray sit down with psychologist Marie Hooper to break open one of the most misunderstood autism profiles: PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance), or the pervasive drive for autonomy. Marie explains why these kids look oppositional on the surface but are actually responding to a nervous-system threat, why typical behavior plans often backfire, and how masking—especially among girls—keeps PDA hidden for years. She walks through the six core features clinicians should recognize, what burnout looks like in kids who stop attending school entirely, and how to shift from compliance-based approaches to safety-based, trauma-assumed care. Whether you're a therapist, educator, or parent, this conversation reframes what “can't, not won't” truly means.For more than 45 years, PAR has been publishing trusted assessment instruments that help their customers in the crucial work they perform every day. Their U.S.-based, company is a talented group of professionals who are guided by their desire to create tools that help their customers improve the lives of those they serve. To hear more and stay up to date with Paul Wagner, MS, LPC and Ray Christner, Psy.D., NCSP, ABPP visit our website at: http://www.psychedtopractice.com Please follow the link below to access all of our hosting sites. https://www.buzzsprout.com/2007098/share “Be well, and stay psyched" #mentalhealth #podcast #psychology #psychedtopractice #counseling #socialwork #MentalHealthAwareness #ClinicalPractice #mentalhealth #podcast

Should you 'shed' friends every seven years? We hear out the expert who says yes. She also knows why you feel like you have no mates, and has some advice for how to attract some new ones. And no, Jessie, Em and Holly don't all like it. Also, the new micro-compatibility test for prospective partners. Lead question: How long before a flight do you like to get to the airport? And, do you have Pathological Demand Avoidance? Or are you just lazy as hell? There might be an excellent new excuse for why you just don't like to do what you're told. Plus, all our recommendations. One of which is for the stellar Out Loud gift guide, coming into your inbox from the Holly Out Loud newsletter tomorrow — but only if you're subscribed: Support independent women's media - subscribe here. MERCH NEWS: Time is running out. The sale on Out Loud T-shirts and tote bags is ending soon! Get the T-shirt for $50 and the tote bag for $20. Sale ends Dec 6. Shop now.

I DON'T GET IT is the ironically named podcast which features the open-minded musings of two middle-aged curmudgeons (Noah Tarnow and Bill Scurry) who love pop culture, talking about a hot topic of the week. Noah and Bill are trying to base their reactions in a pathology which explains everything. @noahandbillshow.bluesky.social -- @billscurry.bluesky.social -- @noahtarnow.bluesky.social This week's theme: "PDA” by Interpol. New episodes every Monday morning on Youtube, Spotify, Soundcloud, iTunes, and GooglePlay!

Trotzige Kinder, Gewaltausbrüche, Panikattacken, überforderte Eltern und Fachstellen. Was bedeutet es für Familien, wenn Kinder auf jegliche Anforderungen mit Blockaden oder gewalttätigen Wutausbrüchen reagieren? Der 9-jährige Livio ist ein lieber, aufgeweckter Junge – solange er bestimmen kann. Werden an ihn aber Anforderungen gestellt, kann er ausrasten. Seine Eltern und Fachpersonen sind überfordert. Auch die 15-jährige Emilia und der 5-jährige Lion zeigen ein ähnliches Verhalten. Neuere Forschungen begründen die extreme Vermeidung von Anforderungen neurologisch. Das Syndrom wird PDA genannt (Pathological Demand Avoidance, eine krankhafte Vermeidung von Anforderungen). Ob es mit einer Autismus-Spektrum-Störung im Zusammenhang steht, ist umstritten. PDA ist im deutschsprachigen Raum noch wenig erforscht. Schätzungen gehen davon aus, dass nur wenige Kinder von PDA betroffen sind. Umso gravierender sind aber die Folgen für Familien und Umfeld. SRF DOK porträtiert Kinder und Jugendliche, die wegen ihrer PDA-Verhaltensstörung jedes System ans Limit bringen. Erstausstrahlung: 27.11.2025

Hey everyone! We're taking our own advice this week and looking after our energy levels — both of us are juggling some extra work hours and doing our best to avoid burnout. So instead of a brand-new episode today, we're re-running one of our most popular and meaningful conversations. Thank you so much for your understanding as we take a breather — we'll be back with our Hot Topic episode on Friday as usual. And next week, we'll be celebrating a huge milestone — 100,000 downloads!

Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is a profile within autism marked by extreme resistance to everyday demands due to anxiety and a need for control. Though not officially recognized in the U.S., many families find PDA-informed strategies helpful. BCBA Amelia Dalphonse shares signs of PDA, like creative avoidance, surface sociability, and hidden anxiety and offers proven strategies focused on trust, flexibility, and indirect language. Understanding PDA can reduce power struggles and improve support. In this epsideo, Dr. Mary Barbera discusses PDA with Ameila Dalphonse.