Podcasts about Barney Rubble

Oh boy. We've found ourselves in a bit of Barney Rubble, eh? However hard we try, we seem to find ourselves back in prison. And in this episode, you can listen to us in "real-time" literally figuring out how many "prison movies" we've already uncovered, and it's alarming.We're back with Mr. Mackenzie after we did YOUNG ADAM all those episodes ago, and it's another pretty bleak and disheartening piece of cinema starring Jack O'Connell in a big bad man prison. Key words here: "Prison Kisses" and you won't be disappointed.Enjoy! (hahah)

Kayleigh returns to discuss weirdly true tales that are circulating the web with Laura.Ep 187 stories discussed:1. Smelly Phone2. Tape That Mouth3. Ostrich FoeTikTok Spotlight: NPC Spoof

Description Producer Andrew and Joe are discussing the classic Hanna-Barbera show The Flintstones. Presenting a traditional family sitcom in a prehistoric setting, this one of the most successful series from the iconic cartoon studio.  Support Patreon Show Notes The Flintstones … Continue reading →

TUNISIA - That's right, Tunisia! Our All-Star panel of #WWE Hall of Famer/Rugby-Advocate John Bradshaw Layfield, Irish legend George Hook, world class coach Mike Friday, King Gift Egbelu, Steve "Elevate Rugby" Lewis & host Matt "Money" McCarthy, joins from all parts of the world in this week's The Rugby Odds. INCLUDED: 23-18 Record Mike Friday & Barney Rubble vs Danny Care Hook on Irish vs Kiwis Hannibal Gift Sours on South Africa John: “Ireland is the new Italy” Saints Turn Bulls into “Calves” Benetton Burst Bath Bubble Dupont [Yawn] Again Tigers Gut Sharks Player of the Week Grown A$$ Man Picks of the Week Please share and join our weekly newsletter: http://rugbywrapup.com/weekly-updates/ FIND ALL HERE: Web: https://rugbywrapup.com/ -X/Twitter: @RugbyWrapUp @TheRugbyOdds, @MLR Weekly @Matt_McCarthy00, @CollegeRWU, @JonnyLewisFilms -Face Book: Rugby Wrap Up -Instagram: RugbyWrapUp -YouTube: Rugby Wrap Up -Reddit: RugbyWrapUp -TikTok: RugbyWrapUp -Podcast Platforms: RugbyWrapUp #USARugby #MajorLeagueRugby #RugbyWrapUp #OldGlory #RugbyATL #MLR2020 #SixNations #WorldRugby #SuperRugby #Top14 #PremiershipRugby #Pro14 #URC #UnitedRugbyChampionship #RugbyOdds #RugbyBetting

Crafts... they're fun, they're hands-on, they're practical and evolutionary. And they had to start somewhere. We take our Debut Buddies Time Machine back to 30,000 BC to discuss the FIRST CRAFT(S)! Maybe it was pottery, maybe it was weaving and looming, but one thing's for sure, we each tried to do a craft and some of us (Chelsea and Kelly) succeeded in creating NON-ABOMINATIONS! But Nate's pot isn't too bad and could be useful for self-defense if nothing else. Join us for a survey of crafting history from pottery to baskets to linens and more! Plus, there's a very special MouthGarf Report and I See What You Did There!Please give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts! Want to ask us a question? Talk to us! Email debutbuddies@gmail.comListen to Kelly and Chelsea's awesome horror movie podcast, Never Show the Monster.Get some sci-fi from Spaceboy Books.Get down with Michael J. O'Connor's music!Next time: First Female Elected Official (in the U.S.)

In Episode #204 of The XS Noize Podcast, host Mark Millar chats with Phil Etheridge from The Twang to celebrate the 15th anniversary of their second album, Jewellery Quarter. Originally released in 2009, Jewellery Quarter debuted at No. 20 on the UK charts and featured standout singles like Barney Rubble and Encouraging Sign. The album also delivered fan favourites such as Took the Fun and Back Where We Started, earning its status as a modern classic. This December, The Twang will release a special edition of the album—re-recorded, remastered, and available on vinyl for the first time ever. In this episode, Phil reflects on the album's creation, sharing insights into the writing and recording process, the excitement of the new vinyl release, new music and the band's upcoming live shows.  Or listen via YouTube | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | RSS – Find The XS Noize Podcast's complete archive of episodes here. Previous XS Noize Podcast guests have included Gavin Friday, Anton Newcombe, Peter Hook, Humanist, Sananda Maitreya, James, Crowded House, Elbow, Cast, Kula Shaker, Shed Seven, Future Islands, Peter Frampton, John Lydon, Bernard Butler, Steven Wilson, Midge Ure, Travis, New Order, The Killers, Tito Jackson, Simple Minds, Divine Comedy, Shaun Ryder, Gary Numan, Sleaford Mods, The Brand New Heavies, Villagers, and many more.  

Find out how Mel Blanc and Henry Corden helped inspire JEFF BERGMAN to continue the voice acting magic of a galaxy of classic cartoon stars. 

How did PEZ candy come to be? Why are Mexicans so into anime? Does every costume deserve candy on Halloween? If you had a time machine would you kill Hitler or something more productive? Where was the internet invented? Kyle and Jheisson answer these questions and more as they dive into the history of PEZ, the Crocs marathon world record, the Flintstones, and the history of the Internet!The students at Wiki U have been drinking Magic Mind every morning to jumpstart their day and get their brains firing on all cylinders! We love Magic Mind because it's filled with all natural ingredients that help you focus on the things you need to get done and the things you WANT to get done. The first thing you should cross off your list today is getting a subscription to Magic Mind. For a limited time Wiki U listeners can get 20% off a one time purchase or subscription by using the promo code Wikiuni20 at checkout at the link below!https://magicmind.com/WIKIUNI20 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wikiuniversity YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmPDDjcbBJfR0s_xJfYCUvwInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/wikiuniversity/Music provided by Davey and the Chains  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wikiuniversity YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmPDDjcbBJfR0s_xJfYCUvwInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/wikiuniversity/Music provided by Davey and the Chains

SDCC 2024 seems to have at least one panel a year dedicated to Looney Tunes and I'm here for it, but not there. I couldn't make it out to the Fan Capital of California, but my dear friend The Tooney Tenor was able to cover for me! MeTV Toons brought out the Looney Legends from voice cast to animation historian, Jerry Beck who is also a producer on the channel! This panel was all about Saturday Morning Cartoons, favorite cereals, animation and the best Bugs Bunny voices you've ever heard. The Panel Included: Bob Bergen: The official voice of MeTV Toons. You'll recognize his voice as Porky Pig, Tweety, Marvin the Martian, Speedy Gonzales, and Sylvester Jr. He's also lent his talent to projects like Spirited Away (No-Face). Not to mention various Star Wars video games (Luke Skywalker). Jerry Beck: Renowned animation historian, author of numerous books on the subject, and co-founder of the influential Cartoon Research website. Eric Bauza: Two-time Emmy-winning voice actor celebrated for his role as Bugs Bunny. Additionally, he has voiced Daffy Duck, Tweety, Marvin the Martian, Stimpy, and many more. Jeff Bergman: Celebrated voice actor who has brought life to classic cartoon characters like Fred Flintstone. Known for being Barney Rubble, Yogi Bear, and an extensive list of Looney Tunes favorites including Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd. Candi Milo: A versatile voice actress known for her work as Dexter from Dexter's Laboratory, Dr. Nora Wakeman from My Life as a Teenage Robot, Snap from ChalkZone, and Granny and Witch Hazel from Looney Tunes. Neal Sabin: Vice Chairman of Weigel Broadcasting, the parent company of MeTV Toons. MeTV Toons Network is celebrating Bugs Bunny's 84th Birthday with a Brand New Original Special and Full Day Marathon of his best animated shorts!  Check out the Documentary Hare's To Bugs! A Bugs Bunny Celebration out now! Follow The Tooney Tenor across Social Media @Thetooneytenor Thanks for Listening!

Dave Hondel sits down with acclaimed voice actor, Jeff Bergman. Jeff has voiced some of the most iconic characters in the history of animated television over his 30 year career and continues to work regularly. A regular voice of Bugs Bunny and many Looney Tunes characters as well as Fred Flintstone, Barney Rubble and many Hanna-Barbera legends. He was also the voice of Charlie Tuna, Punchy from Hawaiian Punch, among so many more. Jeff attends many Comic-Cons around the world meeting fans and taking the time to talk about the childhoods that were made better because of the shows that made these voices famous. This is a must listen and you may just recognize some of the voices on the show!

This week on the pod we wrap up Gord's discography with the Bob Rock collaboration, Lustre Parfait.Transcript:[0:00] Long Slice Brewery presents a live event celebration of Gord Downie, July 19th, at the Rec Room in Toronto. Join the hosts of the podcast, Discovering Downie, as they record their finale with special guest, Patrick Downie. A silent auction with items from the hip and many others will take place, along with live entertainment from the almost hip. All proceeds will benefit the Gord Downie Fund for Brain Cancer Research. For more information and tickets, please visit discoveringdowney.com. Clutched clipboard and staring out past the end of her first day into tonight and all the way across oceans of August to September. It makes for a beautifully vacant gaze.[1:08] Music.[1:42] Hey, it's J.D. here and welcome to Discovering Downey, an 11-part project with a focus on the music and poetry of Mr. Gord Downey. The enigmatic frontman of the Tragically Hip, Gord gave to the world an extensive solo discography on top of the vocal acrobatics in the hip that awed us for years. Gord released five albums while he was alive and three more posthumously.[2:09] Now listen, you might think you're the biggest fan of the Tragically Hip out there. However, why is it that so few of us have experience with this solo catalog? Have you really listened to those solo records? My friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk, giant fans of the hip in their own right, fell into that camp. So I invited them to Discover Downey with me, JD, as their host. Every week, we get together and listen to one of Gord's records, working in chronological order. We discuss and dissect the album, the production, the lyrics, and we break it down song by fucking song. This week, we wrap up Gord's discography with an album attributed to both Bob Rock and Gord, Luster Parfait. Craig, how goes it this week? week things are okay a bit of a break tomorrow going off on a little family trip for a couple days meeting my parents and sisters uh you've never met your parents before this is big news dude yeah yeah i think they're gonna like you man congratulations and then yeah and then shortly after that head off to toronto for for an event with you guys whoop whoop yeah How are you doing, Kirk?[3:30] You know, guys, I'm doing pretty good. It was 107 out here in Boise, Idaho, where I'm on show site. As we mentioned, I was in Europe last week, so I'm not quite sure time zone, temperate zone, what zone I'm in. I just – somebody point me in the right direction and I go. So I'm doing good, though. We had such a great time. But more importantly, I'm just really excited about next week and just hanging with you, you lads and checking out all the stuff that we have planned and, and, you know, especially that the event. So I'm that energy will get me through whatever jet lag, whatever heat stroke, whatever heck I encounter over the next seven days. So, and what about that new item? The hip gave us today to go towards our silent auction. Someone's going to get some major bragging rights. Man, we can't say what it is, but-[4:27] We might be fighting internally for this. We'll be revealing what it is, I guess, Friday. And some other great prize stuff, too. JD, you just told me and Kirk about this ridiculous prize that we got. Craig's got it memorized. Yeah. Two tickets to the Toronto Raptors. $500 in arena gift cards. and two customized or personalized jerseys and a shoot around. Man. Are you ready for this? Come on. That's great. Jadon. Yeah. You're in, you're not in Kansas. Tornado Alley. Tornado Alley. But there's twisters about. Yeah, we just had a...[5:51] And then 20 minutes later, there's a video on Facebook of a frigging tornado a half a mile up the street. What the hell? So we're fine. Yeah, that is freaky. If you look out your window and you see somebody riding a bike in the air, you're in big trouble. With a dog in the basket. That's right. Cow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but dude, I'm, I'm good. Otherwise without the weather or with the weather, I'm good. And I'm psyched for next week, man. Ooh. Yeah. Let's go. Justin. I tasted the podcast. Pilsner officially tasted it now. I had four of them at home. I gave two of them to my father-in-law and I drank two of them and they were very crisp. Delicious. Yeah. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. Awesome.[6:47] When word broke that we'd be getting a third posthumous record from Gord, there was a hush and a wait and see approach. You see, Gord had partnered with Bob Rock back in the 2010s, shortly after Rock had produced probably two of the most divisive records in the Hips catalog. I enjoy both these records a lot, but your mileage may vary. In any case, it was an uneasy feeling for fans. What would this album be? As it turns out, it's a whole lot of everything. There are songs that are reminiscent of the hip, like North Shore. There are horns on the title track, which we got to sample about six months before Lester Parfait dropped. And it relieved us.[7:41] There's even something resembling rack time? Suffice to say, as we've gotten used to saying around these parts, this album is altogether, folks, unlike anything Gord has produced before. It's been said that Bob Rock has a tendency to overstuff the records he produces. It's as though he's just been given access to a 48-track board and he feels compelled to use every last fucking track. rack. On this record, however, his hand seems firmly on the rudder. The songs come across as overly polished, of course, but never too indulgent. If there's one complaint I have, it's that there's too many goddamn songs. On a record as varied as Luster Parfait, you're almost overstimulated by the end. You've been through so many different styles and sounds. If I had it my way, this would be a tight 10-song record, and with the right tracks removed, I dare say this is a collection of songs I would put head-to-head against virtually any other record in Gord's oeuvre.[8:59] Yeah, I think it's that good. There are highs and there are lows on this record, as there have been on each of the albums, but on Luster Parfait, the highs seem higher to me. Have we ever heard Gord sing like he does on The Moment is a Wild Place? Or something more? Have we ever heard a chorus as striking as Is There Nowhere? By the way, big hat tip to Shea Dorval for providing those gorgeous backing vocals. At the end of the day, has Bob Rock redeemed himself with this effort to the haters out there? I would offer a resounding yes. Yes, this is a record that should be listened to loud and on a good pair of headphones. There is so much going on, but it all seems to have a purpose. That's what I think of Lester Parfait.[9:52] Tell me what your experience with the record is, Kirk. Yeah. So the first real listen I had to this album, because I'd been pretty busy with travel and whatnot, we were on our family vacation in Madrid. And beautiful little up on the top of the hotel looking over the city and just enjoying the wonderful atmosphere. And, um, I was actually listening to that kind of rough cut of our, um, rough cut of our interview with, uh, Niles and Kevin. And he had referenced like that. He thought that, you know, the, the, the moment is a wild places is, was his favorite song. And I'm just like, I can't hold off anymore. I need to jump in. So that was my first experience was listening to it, um, on, on the roof in Spain. And since then, it's just been a pretty incredible journey. I spent a lot of time like listening to Bob Rock interviews and, you know, just really understanding where it's coming from. And as you mentioned, JD, like, you know, I understand the divisiveness and whatnot, but oh my gosh, I, I was already in love when I listened to it the first couple of times at this point, you know, I'm, I'm firm in my, my commitment to, to in Gord, we trust, you know, And to see that...[11:17] That friendship. I mean, he, he, he makes the statement. We were like two teenagers that were in the studio, just making music together. And, um, you know, to hear how the whole process went and I know we'll get into it and everybody, you know, obviously we'll provide their input. Um, I fell in love with it even more, you know, and, and the variety on this, this album i mean guys we got reggae we got we got west coast punk we got 70s glam we got 80s synth pop we've got you know it it just every even within certain songs you'll have a jump from one friggin genre to another and then you you know you start looking at all the studios they recorded in, the process that it took, the number of years, the people that are involved.[12:13] And especially after we've discussed with the last three albums, like it was just fun to, I felt like, I felt like I got a warm hug from Gord. I really did. Just like, I just was all that, that we went through. It was like, Hey, this is just when it's fun. And this is, this This is for you, music lovers. That's what I felt. That's what I felt. I love that. I haven't watched much with Bob Rock, but I did read that one of the reasons why it took until 2023 to rear its head was because it was too painful for him to, like, he was really emotional following the death of Gordani in 2017. Absolutely. Because they had gotten lungs. Yeah. They had become such close friends and, you know, they reference, you know.[13:09] Uh, Gord flew out to talk about world container and they'd figured that out in 15 minutes. And then they spent the rest, the rest of the conversation talking about being dads, being Canadians, being hockey lovers. And, and then that just continued. And I think those guys, you know, with the level that they were at, I think they kind of found it was a peer to peer relationship.[13:32] And I really felt like they found refuge in each other. And then I think they sought it out because it was a long relationship. I mean, was it 06 when World Container was being made or coming out? Up until the very end. And that's when they first met is when he came out, or at least per what I had listened to. You know, they flew out to Maui, to his studio in Maui, Gord did, and then, you know, like I said, Discuss World Container. And then they didn't really do much as it was described until after the second album, We Are The Same, that they did. And then that's when the, you know, that relationship in the music for Luster Parfait started. So yeah, I mean, I recommend everyone to check into this. And Bob rock doesn't seem like, you know, like you.[14:25] You just, he didn't, didn't do a lot of, I mean, of course he gets on the documentaries, he gets a lot of airtime and whatnot, but beyond that, you know, there's not a ton, I guess, but the stuff specific to this is well worth, you can just hear the genuineness all these years after, like last year was a lot of the interviews that were going on and he's still breaking up. Like you're still oh yeah um and he's just he's like you go bob rock and you like you think the guy's flying you know coming in on the learjet all the time and he's like most of these interviews he's like just got done feeding his horses craig what was your first experience like i was also traveling uh down to seattle for a ball game and i was on on the amtrak train taking my notes and i I actually wrote, I'm going to read this and don't get mad at me. But I said, hate to be negative on this last album, but there's a lot to pick apart.[15:25] Two days ago, we were supposed to record this episode, and we had to postpone. And that evening, at 10.30 at night, I texted you guys a photo. A package arrived, and the CD was dropped off by Amazon. So I got the CD, and I started looking at the lyrics. And then the next day, I popped it in the car. And it's been in there for a couple days now, and I've been listening to it quite a lot. And my opinion has totally changed. Changed it's like some of this and i think it's what you said jd it's it's a very long album and so some of my favorite songs come at the end and what i what i've been doing is hitting shuffle and that's when it really started to um pick up for me is when i started listening on shuffle before getting the cd that i liked hearing just random songs come on and then and i thought it it was a problem with the sequencing at first but then i realized it's probably more because when the album came out i did listen a couple times when it first came out but i think i only got through the first four songs and so now i'm getting to know and love these later songs and then when i got the cd it just all kind of started working for me and i'm like wow some of the things that i was going to be nitpicking on today's episode i think i've I've grown to appreciate Justin, my man. Yeah.[16:51] Talk to me about your relationship with this release and has it changed since your first listen? So I pre-ordered this last year and yeah, this, this CD was in heavy rotation for me until, um, until you asked us to be part of the podcast. So I've been cold Turkey since January or whenever it was and waiting for for this week to get back into it. Yeah. I love this album, and I wish that Gord had done a Broadway show.[17:27] Um, could you imagine after hearing how strong his vocal is? Um, and especially during this time period. And it's funny, Craig, that you mentioned that you did not like this album. And then today you changed your mind. I took a break from this cause I've been over listening and I went back to the grand bounce and I love that freaking album as of today. And everybody knows I did not love that album when we were doing the podcast. Yay![18:00] Yeah. I love this news. It grew on me big time today. And Justin, one of the interviews that I watched, they actually said that the lyrics were almost like a screenplay on Luster Parfait and that there is a movie inside this album. It's just no one has brought it forth. So I like that. Broadway play. Movie i think i saw some of the same interviews you did um the one with uh terry mulligan was i actually listened to it a few times um to pick that apart but um yeah it would be it would be fantastic if that film was to get made or some sort of video component to this um but you know this was at gourd's you got to remember this the vocals recorded a decade ago and this was at gourd's busiest period and i would say his strongest period um vocally um and seems that way but you know bob also said in the in the interviews that he intentionally um potted gourd's mic up so that it was more on the forefront you know with the hip gourd's voice was an instrument um with this album it is the show and that absolutely rings true and you know jd the the songs that you mentioned just...[19:24] Kick my ass every time i hear it and i've heard them i've heard them 50 times at this point you know without exaggerating um yeah it's it's a very cool album a very confusing album uh stylistically um and it's very long but i can palette that um and i had the same issues craig um with stopping and starting and you hear you've you know you've heard the first six songs on this album probably twice as many times as the final seven or eight um and it's just it takes a commitment to get through it um and every song is long in addition to them there being so many of them um you know there's several songs that are five or six minutes um yeah seven and a half right it's for the moment is a wild place and i'm really interested in in your guys's uh mvp, yeah tracks for this like more than any other album we've done yeah because i think it's going to be all over the place i i've got mine and i i think this was like the easiest choice i've had to make and this is the first time i don't i quite literally don't have an mvp i'm i'm pulling the trigger when we talk every other album first three listens i had it down i mean i'm usually the first one to chime up i i can't i i just haven't been able to pick one it's strange that that it's It's opposite.[20:48] Should we try and untangle this web that Justin just spoke of, this mystery of a record, and go track by track? We start with, Greyboy says.[20:59] Music.[24:42] I mean, from the first note, it's like, what the hell are we listening to? And in the best way, you know, I just had no idea that this is where we were going. You know, and I love World Container and I love We Are The Same. And we all know everything else that Bob Rock has done. And this is not any of those things. It's bizarrely different. Um, and who the hell is gray boy, right? Like I've spent a year now trying to figure that out. And I thought I'd read something that it was a DJ. Um, yeah, I read that too. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but there's a DJ out of San Diego, uh, named gray boy. Um, sort of like an acid jazz DJ I read and it could be him he's referencing, but I'm not sure if that's no idea. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just a, a total, it's a mind fuck right from the beginning. And, and I was really like, okay, I'm turning this up. Um, you know, I remember listening to it in my car, um, the first time that I, that I put it on. However, I wanted to ask, um, JD and Craig, if, if you guys had any of this, um, on air in Canada, did, were any of these songs played on terrestrial radio? Yeah.[26:05] I don't recall hearing it on the radio i don't listen to a lot of uh local radio i'm usually, you know serious yeah xm listener but um but no i didn't hear it i did see the video though and so this song is a song i heard right away when it came out because of the the video which uh if you've seen it it has um some of the guys from offspring dexter nude and yeah and And when I look at the track listing, they don't actually, they don't play on the track. So they were just kind of there for the video and having fun filming the video. And Bob Rock's got James Hetfield's ESP that he's playing in it. And so it's a pretty cool video.[26:49] Did you guys recognize the drummer? I did, yeah. So Abe- Abe Laborio Jr. That's Paul McCartney's drummer. Yeah, really quick connection. When I was in my original band back in the 90s, we had a drummer who filled in for us fairly often when we were down a drummer. And he was roommates at Berklee with Abe. Really? And I didn't meet Abe, But one time he was in town for either sting or McCartney and our singer slash, you know, front front man got to jam with Abe and he came back and told me that he has never felt anything like it being in the room with him. He said when the, when the kick drum hit one, it was unlike anything he's ever experienced as a musician. So it was just that tight. And you can hear that tightness in his playing. Yeah. I mean, you don't get picked up as Paul McCartney's drummer, unless you know what the F you're doing. 20 years.[28:17] Video and, and, And he even plays and he's like, he's a beast of a man, right? He's, he's, he's, he's a big guy, but he's just sweet. I've had opportunity. There's a show called ma'am national associate music merchants. If you're a musician, you should know about it. It's every year in Anaheim. So it's pretty close. So I've been going for years and years and he's there quite a bit. And so, you know, had few little interactions and he's just, yeah, he's a, he's a sweetheart just, and, and an incredible musician. Oh, wow. Incredible musician. Well, they did it weird, right? Because they released Lester Parfait, and then they released a three-song EP, or maybe that was the time they released Lester Parfait. And then they released a six-song EP. And it had The Moment is a Wild Place, Camaro, Lester Parfait, Grey Boy Says, I think. So they did that But I'm not sure about, I'm not sure whether Lester Parfait Was considered the lead single or not Hold on I have it open here So that's why I asked you guys If you'd heard it on the air because Again the station that I talk about all the time Here WBQX played Lester Parfait Over and over last year Wow And I think that I heard Grey Boy Says as well On the radio.[29:45] Damn So we were talking earlier about sequencing. I believe it was Craig that was talking about it. So we'll start with him here because when I first heard the next track, which is the Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk, I remember thinking, what the fuck kind of sequencing is this? We go from, you know, this crazy rock song to like a kid's song. And then all of a sudden that chorus hits and you're just like, wow. I would love to be next to a fucking stack listening to that, feeling my pant legs whistle in the wind. Fucking right. That would be just fantastic. Craig, what do you think of The Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk? I really love this song. I think there's a lot of things that really stuck out. The lyrics were great. The chorus, like you mentioned, is powerful. There's the nod to the east wind, I think, in the lyrics of the chorus.[30:47] And it's just a strongly written song. There's a very unique melody. And there's a really cool descending tremolo guitar that I thought was effective. And some nice piano. piano there's a really wild synth solo which was really cool followed by an acoustic guitar solo which you know to to the opposite of what i said last song i loved i thought bob rock killed that solo an acoustic guitar solo is very hard to pull yes agreed to make it sound you have to be spot on and not only does the tone of the guitar have to be good but you have to have the feel.[31:28] And because you hear every slide you hear every nuance you're every bend you hear every chord configuration if you're if you're throwing that in so i agree 100 craig yeah you have to be kyle gas and when you're playing a playing an acoustic soloing you don't have that sustain when you're bending a note so it's just a so someone who tries to play you know just take electric solo and played on acoustic it's not going to sound the same so i thought he did a great job of crafting a solo that worked um there was some really cool like compositional tricks with you know like you know leading tones passing tones and just lots of lots of things to love in this um and also one quick thing at the end the vocal jumps up an octave going into that last chorus just a great great trick yeah and yeah the lyrics i just you know pulled out the lyric booklet two days ago and really wild stuff what do you think justin yeah it's the same exactly the same it's a kid's song and then it's not right um and it's the the storytelling and the.[32:40] You know i can see that helmet the imagery that he tells the story um and one of these interviews um um, that Gord had done, um, which nobody knew it at the time, but it was during these sessions.[32:58] Um, he had mentioned that Bob had asked him to speak more clearly. Don't be so vague with your lyrics. Tell, tell a story that people can understand without having to pull out an encyclopedia and boy, you got it right in this one. Um, you know, this is, it's very cut and dried. Um, it's, it's nothing to figure out. I, I just love how, how clear and concise it is. And some days I just can't do it, you know? Um.[33:28] I think we've all had that. Fuck yeah. Kirk, what do you think? Well, being the elder of the group and someone who really grew up in the 80s, I heard this song. I was joking before when we first started talking on, you can't see me, folks, but I'm doing the 80s dance. When I heard that song the first time, I got that new wave post. I just felt like a kid again in high school. And when you'd hear those, we were in the heart of new wave. It was like true post-punk, like Sex Pistols, late 70s, early 80s, punk, post-punk, where it's now you're getting the precursors to, you know, what becomes Green Day and Blink-182 and everything. But there's, I mean, fuck, there's five keyboards parts on this song, five separate keyboard, you know, credits listed and you can hear it. Um, so, you know, I would say, I know I'd mentioned at the beginning, like I couldn't pick an MVP. This was one that just always stood out. I wouldn't again say MVP, but loved it. It made me feel good every time I listened to it. And then Kirk's going to roll into his second criticism of the entire, uh, series. And I believe it was, is it Tim? I was just going to say, who are you, Tim?[34:47] Like i don't necessarily have an issue with fade outs but i struggled with the fade out on this one i really did i i was like i don't come on just like end it it's a long fade out too it's a long very long fade out very long fade out so um so you know i uh i i again if you guys know i really don't care but odds it's it's all good matthew good he was also strippers union so you know yeah he did the drums on that he was also like the house drummer for the kids in the hall so oh yeah yeah so like how cool is that that you got you go from paul mccartney's drummer to you know brian adams matthew good all the stuff that that pat did so um yeah uh great song uh just uh really helping the love affair uh with the album and uh you know outside of the i could have done without the fade out um friggin loved.[35:56] It friggin loved it it's a 20 second fade out though like it's it's long it's much sort of it's much i'm usually okay with it but this was you know the one thing though the reason why i brought it up is because i kept having to look at my phone going did my phone die um because i'm like the song was the next song wasn't coming he's got late and i couldn't tell if it was going out or if it was the intro but it's yeah it's a 20 second long outro insane justin how about you buddy yeah i i knew somebody was going to mention the fade out. I didn't hate it because the song is kind of long and it's like, alright, it kind of feels appropriate.[36:38] But yeah, no, I just love the song and I don't know, how many times are you going to say the sonic sounds like nothing else you know and i i understand you know he really wasn't necessarily involved in much of the the writing of the parts, um but i don't know it's just so freaking cool yeah it is it's very cool, so luster parfait what do you think of that track that's the one song that my daughter has grabbed a hold of because of the hey hey hey um you know i don't i don't know what the song is about but i picture it as gourd's love letter to music um and you know performing live we gather in the dark um you know we can only connect um that's that may be the only way that some people connect that's how we all connected right is through music and specifically gourd's music um i just this this uh this song you can't help but feel good listening to um it's such a fun freaking song and there's horns and there's that little you know half step.[37:58] Kind of thing in the chorus and it's it's really really interesting and it's very fun and it's funny almost um just the the energy that that gourd has and that the entire i want to say band but you know the people playing in the song it just sounds like every i can picture every single person in there playing with a smile on their face you know and and just enjoying the shit out of this whole process it's a luster parfait baby would you dig into the yeah because it starts off with horns and you we haven't had horns per se um on i mean i guess is this what it sounded with davis manning like i i i'll put my cards out there and i haven't heard a lot of it so i don't really know what the hip sounded like with him, but like you've got a full on sack. So what's that, Justin? Not like this. Davis Manning did not sound like this.[39:02] Ah no he sounded like uh and i he sounded like an 80s you know bar band saxophonist that's because that's exactly what it was who can it be now i'm in at work right but the horns just hit you right up front um and uh the the sax solo like in the middle and then And, you know, a really cool, as we talked about, you know, it's got a hard ending, which is great. But in the end, that little vamp with the B3 and the piano, like Justin said, the music all around, you just, you can't listen to it and not smile and not feel like that was the energy when it was being recorded.[39:51] So the one note that I wrote here too that I think is really cool. Um and it kind of speaks to what you guys were saying is like a like a a letter to music but he described the bridge bob did uh as being essentially the sensational alex harvey band and if you don't know anything about the sensational alex harvey band just look it up just youtube it and i'll leave that there um you know i guess i'll call it like the canadian david Bowie during the Ziggy Stardust years is, is probably a good way to describe it. So, um, but how cool is that? That like throwing that right in, right in after you get these two rockers and now he's going glam and, um, yeah, this just brilliant, uh, brilliant, brilliant, uh, title track song.[40:47] I really liked the, speaking of the bridge, the sort of chromatics and the bridge. And then at the very end, it blends into the final chorus.[40:59] So, you know, luster parfait, hey, hey, which I thought was very cool. Um yeah and speaking of the lyrics at the at the start it says isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge and i looked up a scene from the deluge because it was capitalized and i found a painting called scene from a deluge from 1806, and it's a pretty wild painting i'll just read the description really quickly the man perched on a rock hangs from a from a tree that is beginning to break he tries to pull up his wife and two children all while supporting on his back an old man who carries a purse in his hand the sky is streaked with lightning like justin right now and a cadaver floats in the agitated water it's a pretty i'll just hold my screen it's pretty wild um anyways uh pretty wild so i'm not sure what he's getting at but uh but yeah definitely what's the lyric yeah it's the it's the intro isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge, which as you describe it, it was pretty, uh, pretty stark. Yeah. Like, yeah.[42:26] Yeah. Like he's hanging on to like his wife and two kids with one arm, like by her one arm. So I guess there's not too much he can do.[42:35] Other quick notes. I just want to mention the horns. So the horns, the saxophone is played by Tom Keenleyside, who is a local Vancouver-based saxophone flautist. And he has been all over. He has played with so many different artists. and actually the very first cassette i ever bought back in grade seven i think i just finished grade seven and i was in the kitchen i can still i remember exactly where i was and on the radio came, rag doll by aerosmith 1987 and i was drawn in by the horns because i i'm i started playing saxophone in grade six so i was drawn in by that and steve tyler's voice and that song grabbed me right away I took my money from my piggy bank and I bought a Walkman and a cassette tape you know the next day and that's really where my journey with rock music started and so Bob Rock was the engineer on that album Permanent Vacation and Tom Cunley side played the saxophone so I thought there's a cool kind of full circle for for me personally um you know seeing that he was the one And because as soon as I heard horns, I knew it was him. Listen, I don't know where you would put a showcase track on a record from a sequencing standpoint.[44:02] Music.[50:44] The vocals uh that are going on in this um you got and then going back to bob and all the guitars like you've got acoustic guitars you got two lead guitars you've got what sounds almost like what i know as like a slack hawaiian slack guitar it sounds like a pedal steel but there's nothing in the liner the the the pedal steel song is not this song um it's got that kind of a you know of acoustic and slide in the beginning and and then you've got this the chorus that just uh you know it's uh it it it's like a dump truck of love coming down with this massive gourd here i am and and you understand why many people call it their favorite and uh a song that is seven minutes in 26 seconds and sounds like it's maybe a couple minutes so when you know that a song that's that long can just like you get lost in and you don't even think that it's that long you know you know it's it's obviously very very well written craig what were your thoughts i thought the.[52:02] Yeah the chorus was was what made it and the moment is a wild place reminded me of you know like a theme throughout his work about living in the moment where whether it's the dance and its disappearance or never ending ending present and i'm sure there are many others i know we've discussed them on this podcast so that was really really a great tie-in um the hawaiian guitar i loved as well at the start and you know you have to think that it is bob rock playing that so it you know he lives in maui much of you know much of the year from what i've heard and And, you know, he's soaking up all that Island music and, and yeah, my only other real note was, um, like a couple of quick things. Sean Nelson is the drummer on this track and the last one who I had to look up and he's actually, um.[52:54] Not someone who's played on a ton of high profile albums or anything. He's a drum instructor out of, I believe, San Francisco, I read. And, you know, very cool that he had that opportunity to work on this album. And one last thing, the piano flourishes at the end, reminded me of Dr. P from the country of miracles, which was very cool. Nice callback. Wow. Yeah. That's a great. Yeah. Justin, how about you? The moment is a wild place. Well, you know, I keep referencing my love of Prague and this sounds like a pink board. I can see that.[53:38] I love that it's long. I love that it's got, they use all 88 keys. You know, from low to high, it's It's really just a beautiful song, and the lyrics remind me of Secret Path. Heal. I don't know. There's definitely some tie-ins in my brain to Channing and his story. I don't believe that. Wow. Because this was probably written before secret path was even in chords around the same time around the same time it was birthed.[54:24] Yeah. But you know, I just, yeah, I think this is one of the songs that Bob said that Gordon heard completed before he passed.[54:36] Oh, that's nice to hear. Yeah. Uh, and, but Jesus Christ, the range that this guy has, right? Like, uh, I don't know. It, it, I fall apart whenever I hear the song. It's it's in in the best of ways you hear this song and it's almost like has he not been trying all these years you know because he's like he's got this in his fucking back pocket holy shit you have this in your back pocket and you're 50 years old time gourd god the other thing that i think is is uh something i just want to comment on really quickly is somebody who deals with mental wellness and is uh working on his mental health i look at this song almost the same way i look at the darkest one in that it's got this sort of clever twist right it's like the wild are strong, and the strong are the darkest ones and you're the darkest one so it's like starts out as almost this great compliment but it turns into something else and in this song it's like hey everybody you got to be in the moment you got to be in the moment but sometimes the moment is a wild fucking place that you don't want to be in so i'm going to put a bow in this jd and you guys.[56:04] So yeah i had mentioned earlier i was you know on the rooftop in madrid and i'm listening to the I'm listening to the Kevin Drew Niles interview, and you'd put this song in, sorry, Inside Baseball.[56:23] This song comes on, and it turns midnight in Madrid, and frigging fireworks start going off everywhere around the city. And I don't know if it was the transition from June to July. I don't know if it was the Spain had just won their Euro cup game earlier in the day, or if it was just, you know.[56:52] Tuesday in Spain at midnight, we like to put off fireworks, but I'm, I'm, you know, up there. Like I said, I've had a few glasses. I'm feeling wonderful. I'm jet lagged. I'm listening to that brilliant, brilliant, brilliant interview. The song comes on and fireworks start shooting off quite literally in the middle of it. So the moment is a wild place. Yeah, sure fucking is. Boy. Well, let's move to track five and something more. Craig, how do you feel something more lives up to its role as a follow-up song for The Moment is a Wild Place? This is a tour de force song and a showcase piece. Is this the right sequencing order? I'm just curious what you think. Yeah, that's a good question. I'll need to think about that some more, but I do think the song was quite good. It reminded me, vocally reminded me of like earlier Gord.[57:58] And it's the first song on Lester Parfait that did sound like a previous version of Gord. The horns are great, which is what makes it sound so it doesn't just sound like a copy of something that he did earlier. There were some great dissonant guitar shots that were very cool and a little horn part. And of course, we have to shout out the drummer on this song because it is none other than Johnny Faye, who makes an appearance a number of times on this album. And you can tell. He just has such a great... He's playing on an album with Pat Stewart, with Abe, and he fits right in there because he's just such a musical player.[58:46] He has such a great tone to his drums always, and it was just a treat to hear him again. He's also listed as backing vocals. I think that's on a later track. I think track number 11, I think, for some reason. Oh, okay. All right. Right. But speaking of vocals, I have in my notes that Johnny Faye said this was Gord's best vocal ever recorded, hip or otherwise. I've never heard – I've been listening to him since 1989, and I've never heard anything like this. Right, right. There's a lot of strong, strong Gord vocals. And he's also got a very powerful voice. We know that because watching a special video of his later performances where he's more guttural and screaming but holding the microphone down at his belly button. And you can still hear just how powerful his voice is. That's really wild that Johnny Faye would say that. This is the first one that, at least for the album version.[59:58] This song is actually towards the end. So kind of wild. Or at least from a lyrical standpoint, it goes something more in the field, and then there goes the sun. So it's one of the last three songs on the album. you've got an error your album's on that skirt my album is a wild place i'm not i'm not even lying guys i'm not lying look at it right there it's third from the end odd odd that that you know as we talk about the sequencing that's the listed you know outside of the comment from johnny i just you know gothic synths driving drums bright horns really amazing solo um uh just I like it actually in the spot that we're talking about it from a sequencing standpoint, as opposed to towards the end. Because it is one of those that, I guess they're all in the MVP category opportunity, but this to me might have been in the upper quarter of MVP opportunities.[1:01:04] What do you think, Justin? um i spent a fair amount of time on the lyrics on this one and trying to there's a lot of stuff that's in quotes um and i tried to figure out what he was referencing by a lot of stuff and the only thing this is the silliest thing that i think could have come out of this was the cool hand of a girl all i found for that was a mexican restaurant in toronto jd have you been there it's It's called The Cool Hand of a Girl.[1:01:39] Hand of a Girl. That's the only thing that I found on the internet with those words in hand. No, I've not heard of that restaurant. No. And I did some research on the restaurant, and it's been open since before this was recorded. So was he talking about a Mexican restaurant? It's an MO, man.[1:01:59] Yeah um i i did love the uh the line i legalize criminality and criminalize dissent i love that because i american who is fucking terrified right now and um that's where i live is where criminality is legal and dissent is criminal uh quite fucking literally, um i don't know the um you know you guys had referenced that this is this is sort of old gourd and the thing that really stuck out for me because i felt the same way it was yeah he said fuck you in this song and this album to that point feels too clean to have those lyrics, to have him say that. And the way that he says it is really live-gored, you know, the ranting voice, almost. He drags the F out in that word.[1:03:09] I like this song. It's not my favorite. I don't know why it's not my favorite i don't know why it's not not my favorite but um yeah this song is is fine and it the the as far as the sequencing goes you know the moment is a wild place is such a deep valley um that this just gets us right back up in the air and and we're on to our next stop and And, um, I, I liked the energy of it, um, to follow, um, yeah, in a wild place. But, um, other than that, I don't know. I think it's got another showcase vocal, uh, toward the end, the latter third of the song when he goes up high. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if you guys, uh, like, I'm not going to try and sing it, but do you know the part I'm talking about where he goes up very high? Yeah. Again, that's not something we've heard from him before. Him going into a place like that.[1:04:15] I could see the classic Gord sweat in this song. He worked hard in this one. And you know what? Moving on to Camaro, I sort of get a sweaty kind of vibe from this one, too. What do you think about this one, Justin? My first thought was, is Gord a secret car guy? like that would be amazing for you oh, No, I mean, this, this is, uh, this is, you know, you're in high school and this is the first car you can afford. Um, this is not a nice Camaro, by the way, the, I had, this is a, this is a 72 that nobody wanted and I found it for 400 bucks in the classifieds and let's go, you know, um, uh, I don't know. It's got no floor on the passenger side but everything else is cool you can see the lines on the road through the friggin' drin you can Barney Rubble it, it's a piece of shit but it's my car, it's my wheels and I love it, I actually went back and listened to other Camaro related songs.[1:05:33] Kings of Leon and Dead Milkmen Bitchin' Camaro You know, just, just, I went back to that for some reason. I don't know. It was, it was cool to just kind of revisit that. Bitching Camaro. Did you see Justin on this particular song and this actually brings up a question for me. The song is Bob said was written because that's his wife's favorite car was a Camaro and then he gave it to Gord and Gord was like, I don't want to write about a Camaro. I'm going to write about a girl named Camaro. So the lyrics are about a girl named Camaro but the title Camaro came from bob's um and this is again this is just what bob mentioned about it um his wife's favorite car so apologies yeah and isn't that crazy isn't that totally crazy and and.[1:06:36] Yeah. You know, a great song. Um, I have, uh, I have like talking heads listed as kind of a vibe in, in, in a lot of them actually have a real, you know, kind of eccentric talking heads, kind of odd jazzed influence horns, um, as well. So, yeah, but anyway, love that. It's a girl named Camaro. Great. I love the line of the chorus, Camaro, the name means just what you think the car can do, go. Just the way he phrases it is just very odd. Until I read it, I didn't realize what he was trying to say at the end.[1:07:16] And yeah, just very cool phrasing. it reminded me of um i couldn't get the simpsons out of my head the canyonero canyonero, but that's just where my mind went but my also my dad had he's currently rebuilding a uh a 1980 camaro in silver so i'm uh i actually just texted him to see if he could text me a picture of it but he's uh he's a car guy and yeah he's working on one as we speak so So it did bring back a memory that I had repressed from high school where I got a ride with a buddy's sister's boyfriend who had a Trans Am, you know, like a Burt Reynolds Smokey and the Bandit vintage. And we went 140 miles an hour on the way home. That's the only time I was certain that I was going to die was in the backseat of that car. And it's a Trans Am, not a Camaro, but same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Night.[1:08:15] Music.[1:12:50] The North Shore is the first track on the record to me that sounds like vintage hip. It could be at home on Day for Night, a different production version of it could have been on Fully Completely, maybe even Hen House. It's of that sort of vintage. Am I totally crazy, or am I barking up the right tree, Kurt? Yeah i mean i have i have written uh alt rock style um kind of ballad so you know that's i think that hip would fall into that that uh realm but the song sounded big to me it got big you know it starts off with that kind of acoustic piano in intro and um and and the cool thing like most scored lyrics is like is he talking about the north shore of maui is he talking about the north shore of you know lake ontario everyone because like everyone kind of has a north shore, and um i i uh i i i just appreciate again the his ability to um.[1:14:05] Keep you guessing and keep us talking for many more episodes of podcasts to dissect Accord's lyrics. Yeah. And I recall seeing an interview with Bob Rock where he kind of mentioned the same thing. He talked about the North shore in Maui. There's a North shore in Vancouver where, you know, Bob Rock would, would know about the North shore that I actually spent the first four years of my life on the North shore in North Vancouver. And, um, I'm I'm thinking he's probably talking about the lake only because he mentions, I think it swallows, which there wouldn't be, I don't think in Maui on the North shore there. It's much too windy. There's little sparrows, I think, but I could be wrong.[1:14:46] But, but yeah, it's meant to be for wherever your North shore is. And it really is a great song. It could be, could have been a radio hit is that, that type of song I did. This is one of those songs that earlier on I had a critique about the chorus being too generic. So the chord structure is one we've heard a million times. But then the more I listened to it, I started thinking, well, there's a reason this chord structure has been used a million times. It's powerful. And when Gord is added to this mix, it does sound original. And it sounds great. I really love the harmonies at the end in the guitar. There's some sort of like Boston seventies via seventies, like guitar rock vibe on the, on the harmonies, which I dug or like, or like almost like a thin Lizzie or something. So yeah, solid song all around.[1:15:39] Justin, your thoughts. Yeah. I actually, um, view this as a followup to the last recluse. Um, like, yep. That's all that to me lyrically. Um, I also went back to Summer's Killing Us from In Between Evolution, because I really do love the lyrics about one more breeze and summer's complete. And then at the end, he goes back to summer lowers its flag now. And obviously the word is summer. And so that is my tie in. But, you know, the the uptempo of summer is killing us and summer exists at the fair. Right you know like this is yeah summer kicks ass and then this is the end of it like we're going back to school now and uh the leaves are falling off of the trees and you know it just um i also really loved the line we occurred to each other 48 hours a day how fucking amazing is that line um when you're in love holy hell that's that's all you think about and um.[1:16:52] Fingers and toes 40 things we share you know uh yeah or fireworks um yeah believing in the country of me and you that's what it was yeah yeah yeah i agree with the last recluse reference though and the way he sings it is actually very similar to we held hands between our bikes it's very and if you've seen the video for the last recluse as well they actually show that with you know these two kids with their yeah well um track number eight is this nowhere kirk this song like i even have i told you about my nights at the ihop i would go after work here over the last couple days and and it's the right next to the hotel and it's simple and so i wrote this on a little napkin holder and my note says it's the same phrasing as one from.[1:17:42] You too i'm sure you guys all that's right yes yeah so and then all of a sudden what's that justin reference to it too midway through the song oh yeah it it's not getting better like he's bull right he is ripping this song he's admitting yep that's a great pick up justin yeah good friend right and then you have one more coffee in the bill which is gonna come up later as one of the lyrics and the backing that the chorus just boom shade shade of all now is that someone that you guys were familiar with ahead of this because I didn't know anything about her until I did the research Justin yeah No, Craig has a story. So Che, Amy Dorval is someone I had to look up because I heard the vocals on this song and I was so blown away by the backing vocals that I had to look her up. And she's from here. She's from Vancouver.[1:18:49] And I think she may be based out of Toronto now. I'm not quite sure. She has a couple of dates coming up in Portland and Seattle, I believe, but nothing here. So I was hoping to go check her out. But yeah, it turns out she worked with Devin Townsend on a project called Casualties of Cool. And so I went onto YouTube and looked that up. And it's very, very cool. Kind of like ambient stuff with just beautiful vocals. And yeah, Devin Townsend is a local musician who, yeah, I remember playing back in 95, sharing a bill with him when he played in a band called Strapping Young Lad. And now he's like a, you know, worldwide world, you know, renowned, uh, musician. And, uh, yeah, we have a, yeah, we have a bit of a band connection with him too. That I won't get into on, on air, but yeah. I want to love you.[1:19:45] That's so cool and then just my last two things on this song um, bob wrote five songs on her solo album and i don't know that he helped with the production he may have been the producer on it but he he wrote five songs with her very in a similar style that um he did with gourd but this is the part that gutted me gourd didn't hear the vocal, It was added after he passed.[1:20:43] I mean you know there's so many haters out there you know he the guy produced the the biggest album of the 90s like the the biggest decade for music um you know i'm pretty sure sales wise yeah i'm pretty sure the 90s as far as like you know you know actual physical product i gotta say this about bob he gives two fucks yep and it's just good for good for him to work with two he just he's living in maui with his wife and his horses and spending time with his kids and you know try you know yeah oh yeah i got to deal with this bon jovi album or this you know offspring album whatever else and then i'm gonna go and wake up and pick one of my 700 guitars and he's got he's got like just he's got he's got music for days but he doesn't sing so i mean he does a little backup vocals or whatever else but i love that about because you know i'm kind of teetering on this i love the bob rock hip albums and of course i am loving this album and and i appreciate the other stuff that i mean metallica that you know that i think that especially if you're a musician like i think i know every main riff from the black album i can't play it all but i know all the riffs of you know sandman and and um and i loved watching that documentary you know almost swore out the VHS. So I'm telling you how old I am again.[1:22:08] Yeah. Another thing about that song, I love the part after the chorus. There's that melody, the da-na, da-na, just at first it kind of throws you, but it's a really great choice.[1:22:20] And I'm going to give a little critique here. This guitar solo kind of kills me. It, it, it's just so generic and kind of boring. And actually now that you bring up the videotape of the, the Metallica, I think it's called day in the life of, I used to have a video VHS copy of that too. And there's a, there's a time on that when he's giving Kirk Hammett such a hard time about the solo. I think it was the unforgiven maybe. And he's just like, no, do it again. Do it. Gotta do your homework. Gotta do your homework. You don't do your fucking homework. So I was picturing like Kirk Hammett being in there, like giving him a hard, like hard time. And, you know, he needed, he needed Bob rock and needed a Bob rock on this song. I think.[1:23:07] Well, again, I think it comes, it comes from the fact though, too, that we've been listening to, you know, these bands and, and these records that have such a feel to them, you know, a cohesive feel. Feel and this record doesn't have that same sort of cohesive feel it's it's all over the place right 14 songs 14 songs that's in in in all the things you read he he gave him 14 songs and he got 14 songs back there was no added there was no cut it was 14 14 straight across and and at no point did i see anything that said like okay this this track was written in 1985 this track was It was written in 2010. It just was part of his cadre of music that he's had lying around. And again, I'd really be interested to know if the titles are Bob's or Gord's. I'd be really interested to know. I guess ultimately it would have come down to Bob in the end. But I'm sure he would have respected it. I think Gord, in their discussions, they would have had. I'm sure. But you're right. I mean, they are co-producers.[1:24:23] Co-writers of the of the record yeah craig i'll put a bow on your statement this was sorry i'm i'm getting a little too flowery with the bob rock quotes and everything else but his statement was budget wise i was the only guitar player available, so there's your answer to the solo okay okay sorry bob i i really i should say i i'm a bob rock fan i love both of the hip albums he did and and like i already mentioned my permanent vacation story and also sonic temple was a big one for me when i was young and that was his yeah me and my buddy found that cassette tape on the side of the road by my dad's work someone had thrown it out the window or something and we found it no no case just the tape and took that home and And yeah, so I'm a big, big Bob rock fan. So sorry, Justin. Yeah. I mean, apart from the backing vocals, I don't love this song. Um, and I think it's kind of the reasons why you guys said it's just not something musically doesn't do it for me. Um, and that's no disrespect to anybody, but the, you know, the background vocals are just so freaking stellar that it's it props the song up probably higher than it should rank for me.[1:25:48] Um yeah and i really you know i didn't care for the youtube the youtube riff and and it just it's just strange right it pulls you out it almost pulls you out of the song because you're like thrust into another song but like i said i do i do appreciate that gourd references the u2 song yes and says it's not getting better that's very cool okay all right well then we know what we're doing at least yeah good on him for for recognizing that and i'm guessing it was just an accident then he he either he noticed it or someone else pointed it out and then yeah know, I'll just add a lyric in here and it's all good. I think it's better than one personally. The next song is To Catch the Truth. Kurt, we'll start with you. Yeah, man. So here we go. We got a ska song, a frigging ska song, in my opinion. No doubt, Mighty Mighty Boston's, whatever your flavor is. But.[1:26:51] I love ska. I love ska. My wife loves ska and we grew up in Orange County. I used to go see No Doubt, play at colleges and play at local bars and crap like that.[1:27:07] And Mighty Mighty Boston is probably the – not even probably, by far the loudest concert I've ever been to, leaps and bounds. But gorge's doing a ska tune um west coast punk was uh was mentioned in a couple of the reviews that i saw vancouver's scene dug in the slugs um it's just a fun great song you know the beauty of ska at least from my standpoint so um loved it absolutely loved the tune jay dog yeah i uh remember very fondly uh watching real big fish in a very small room and um river city rebels were a big ska band horn band here in burlington and i used to you know sneak into shows underage and and love it um it's a fun song it's just fun and um gourd packs a lot into this song um it's i don't really have any any critiques yay or nay other than man i remember being 15 16 years old and going to these shows and having a hell of a good time when i first heard this song the the amount of compression bothered me it's just like.[1:28:31] You know squished and also i found it strange i was thinking in the realm of like goldfinger or something like that and in what in one channel you've got the guitar the other side you've got the piano and i found the way the piano was so clean was a bit bothers bothersome at first, and i had a note i wish it was almost like rag timed up a bit like or you know a bit like maybe even a bit out of tune or just something to give it a little bit of personality that would be my one see this is the song that i felt was like the the mouth i did yeah i think it was the piano a melody but what i mean is is the actual sound yeah no but not the sound i i hear what you're saying craig it was too clean it needed to be like someone had a mic in the room of a saloon with some out of tune piano and then that would have been the that would have been the flavor that would have been the added that well because i like my note west coast punk like you don't tune up when you're playing punk songs you play what's on the friggin guitar that's exactly what So I hear that. I think that's a very fair, very fair criticism.[1:29:37] After listening to it on the CD last night, though, I found that it wouldn't have worked if it was done as a more sort of raw punk or like, if it wasn't compressed in that way, the vocals would not have popped in the same way. And so I think it was probably the right choice in hindsight. But like I said, if it could be just dirtied up a bit in some way, I think I would have enjoyed it a little bit more. I did like the beginning. It's kind of like a strange introduction. There's also those hard stops at the end. What's real? What's fake? There's not a dirty song on this record. You know, this record is not, it's not got, it is like that Camaro. Somebody's out polishing it with a shammy. It's pristine and clean. Let me howl.[1:30:29] Music.[1:36:30] This was one of my favorites. Really enjoyed this song. Really strong melodies. It's unlike any other song in style. And again, we keep coming back to this, but it does not sound like any other Gord song. Doesn't sound like any other song on this album. Very much like an 80s vibe musically. There's a, you know, because I've criticized some solos, I will say I did enjoy the clean guitar solo on this song. And then there's a sax solo that comes in over top of that and i like how that how the tempo goes into halftime and then it kicks back in at the end yeah solid song so i got i got big money from rush in the intro that's what it felt like to me okay so just think of that synth you know.[1:37:21] Big money when before it comes in so but you're right man that that breakdown with the guitar and the sax i just kept repeating that i freaking loved that like and you know you guys you know i i'm i like the dead and and one of the reasons why i think i like the tragically hit because they are jam band no matter what you say they are jam band and they're not going to go off into crazy solos well they did go off into crazy gourd vocal solos you could say right but you know rob's not ripping it for 25 minutes and and you know breaking out the wall and making sure you're you know timing your dose just right but um it it i i love that part to this is that um that that that breakdown. Cause you just, and again, and I'm also a big rush fan. So that intro, so yeah, yeah, this is one of those, like I said, I didn't have my MVP, but this was definitely like a strong, strong candidate. And then my final note on this, this was the last vocal recorded before he was diagnosed is some research that I did. So this was the last vocal was let me before, before he was diagnosed entirely for me.[1:38:41] Not necessarily the meaning, but just context. Wow. Been hitting the head with the shovel here. Who else needs to talk about Let Me Howl? I think it's just Justin, right? Who, me? Yeah. Yeah, the sax makes me feel like I'm driving a cab in Manhattan in 1986.[1:39:06] And it's raining out. you know uh it's so freaking cool and it's a long song and it does weird things i remember the first time that i heard it i thought that we were going to have a fade out on the on that half you know the the slower beat um or the half time whatever you want to call it and, and then out of nowhere this massive film and and we're back and we're faster than we were before, right like it there there's a sense of urgency at the end of the song like let me howl here like i'm i gotta get this out and um it's really really fun like again it's, you can slow dance to this song and you can boogie to this song and you can, i don't know it's it's really really fun and um it's up there for mvp for me it's not my mvp but it's top three or four. I also like how the chorus, let me howl. And on the word howl, he has this like glissando up, like a slow glissando up along with the harmony, which is what a wolf does. Like, um, he's not going clean from one note to another. He's got, he's, he's like slurring up to it. Okay. And like, like a wolf would do when they howl.[1:40:30] And also there's some very slight changes to the way he sings it, I believe, if I'm remembering, if this is the song I'm thinking of, where the chorus slightly changes like the notes he's singing different times or the harmony changes. Something changes a little bit that I thought was really cool. I didn't listen to it today, so.[1:40:52] Justin, hell breaks loose. What do you think? I immediately, before I knew it, I knew that this was Johnny Faye playing drums. Um yeah and uh it's it's a it's a really cool again and like i just referenced new york city um and it's in the first line of this song like and he paints the picture of walking into a bar and it's kirk watching a soccer game right uh fireworks on the roof elbow one of the very first dates with, with my, with my wife, we watched a world cup game in a, in a bar that was shoulder to shoulder and it was two teams I didn't give a shit about and everybody was cheering and everybody was drinking and it was, you know, and then one guy got pissed off, bigger screens, bigger feelings. Right. And it's, it's cool.

This week on the pod we wrap up Gord's discography with the Bob Rock collaboration, Lustre Parfait.Transcript:[0:00] Long Slice Brewery presents a live event celebration of Gord Downie, July 19th, at the Rec Room in Toronto. Join the hosts of the podcast, Discovering Downie, as they record their finale with special guest, Patrick Downie. A silent auction with items from the hip and many others will take place, along with live entertainment from the almost hip. All proceeds will benefit the Gord Downie Fund for Brain Cancer Research. For more information and tickets, please visit discoveringdowney.com. Clutched clipboard and staring out past the end of her first day into tonight and all the way across oceans of August to September. It makes for a beautifully vacant gaze.[1:08] Music.[1:42] Hey, it's J.D. here and welcome to Discovering Downey, an 11-part project with a focus on the music and poetry of Mr. Gord Downey. The enigmatic frontman of the Tragically Hip, Gord gave to the world an extensive solo discography on top of the vocal acrobatics in the hip that awed us for years. Gord released five albums while he was alive and three more posthumously.[2:09] Now listen, you might think you're the biggest fan of the Tragically Hip out there. However, why is it that so few of us have experience with this solo catalog? Have you really listened to those solo records? My friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk, giant fans of the hip in their own right, fell into that camp. So I invited them to Discover Downey with me, JD, as their host. Every week, we get together and listen to one of Gord's records, working in chronological order. We discuss and dissect the album, the production, the lyrics, and we break it down song by fucking song. This week, we wrap up Gord's discography with an album attributed to both Bob Rock and Gord, Luster Parfait. Craig, how goes it this week? week things are okay a bit of a break tomorrow going off on a little family trip for a couple days meeting my parents and sisters uh you've never met your parents before this is big news dude yeah yeah i think they're gonna like you man congratulations and then yeah and then shortly after that head off to toronto for for an event with you guys whoop whoop yeah How are you doing, Kirk?[3:30] You know, guys, I'm doing pretty good. It was 107 out here in Boise, Idaho, where I'm on show site. As we mentioned, I was in Europe last week, so I'm not quite sure time zone, temperate zone, what zone I'm in. I just – somebody point me in the right direction and I go. So I'm doing good, though. We had such a great time. But more importantly, I'm just really excited about next week and just hanging with you, you lads and checking out all the stuff that we have planned and, and, you know, especially that the event. So I'm that energy will get me through whatever jet lag, whatever heat stroke, whatever heck I encounter over the next seven days. So, and what about that new item? The hip gave us today to go towards our silent auction. Someone's going to get some major bragging rights. Man, we can't say what it is, but-[4:27] We might be fighting internally for this. We'll be revealing what it is, I guess, Friday. And some other great prize stuff, too. JD, you just told me and Kirk about this ridiculous prize that we got. Craig's got it memorized. Yeah. Two tickets to the Toronto Raptors. $500 in arena gift cards. and two customized or personalized jerseys and a shoot around. Man. Are you ready for this? Come on. That's great. Jadon. Yeah. You're in, you're not in Kansas. Tornado Alley. Tornado Alley. But there's twisters about. Yeah, we just had a...[5:51] And then 20 minutes later, there's a video on Facebook of a frigging tornado a half a mile up the street. What the hell? So we're fine. Yeah, that is freaky. If you look out your window and you see somebody riding a bike in the air, you're in big trouble. With a dog in the basket. That's right. Cow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but dude, I'm, I'm good. Otherwise without the weather or with the weather, I'm good. And I'm psyched for next week, man. Ooh. Yeah. Let's go. Justin. I tasted the podcast. Pilsner officially tasted it now. I had four of them at home. I gave two of them to my father-in-law and I drank two of them and they were very crisp. Delicious. Yeah. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. Awesome.[6:47] When word broke that we'd be getting a third posthumous record from Gord, there was a hush and a wait and see approach. You see, Gord had partnered with Bob Rock back in the 2010s, shortly after Rock had produced probably two of the most divisive records in the Hips catalog. I enjoy both these records a lot, but your mileage may vary. In any case, it was an uneasy feeling for fans. What would this album be? As it turns out, it's a whole lot of everything. There are songs that are reminiscent of the hip, like North Shore. There are horns on the title track, which we got to sample about six months before Lester Parfait dropped. And it relieved us.[7:41] There's even something resembling rack time? Suffice to say, as we've gotten used to saying around these parts, this album is altogether, folks, unlike anything Gord has produced before. It's been said that Bob Rock has a tendency to overstuff the records he produces. It's as though he's just been given access to a 48-track board and he feels compelled to use every last fucking track. rack. On this record, however, his hand seems firmly on the rudder. The songs come across as overly polished, of course, but never too indulgent. If there's one complaint I have, it's that there's too many goddamn songs. On a record as varied as Luster Parfait, you're almost overstimulated by the end. You've been through so many different styles and sounds. If I had it my way, this would be a tight 10-song record, and with the right tracks removed, I dare say this is a collection of songs I would put head-to-head against virtually any other record in Gord's oeuvre.[8:59] Yeah, I think it's that good. There are highs and there are lows on this record, as there have been on each of the albums, but on Luster Parfait, the highs seem higher to me. Have we ever heard Gord sing like he does on The Moment is a Wild Place? Or something more? Have we ever heard a chorus as striking as Is There Nowhere? By the way, big hat tip to Shea Dorval for providing those gorgeous backing vocals. At the end of the day, has Bob Rock redeemed himself with this effort to the haters out there? I would offer a resounding yes. Yes, this is a record that should be listened to loud and on a good pair of headphones. There is so much going on, but it all seems to have a purpose. That's what I think of Lester Parfait.[9:52] Tell me what your experience with the record is, Kirk. Yeah. So the first real listen I had to this album, because I'd been pretty busy with travel and whatnot, we were on our family vacation in Madrid. And beautiful little up on the top of the hotel looking over the city and just enjoying the wonderful atmosphere. And, um, I was actually listening to that kind of rough cut of our, um, rough cut of our interview with, uh, Niles and Kevin. And he had referenced like that. He thought that, you know, the, the, the moment is a wild places is, was his favorite song. And I'm just like, I can't hold off anymore. I need to jump in. So that was my first experience was listening to it, um, on, on the roof in Spain. And since then, it's just been a pretty incredible journey. I spent a lot of time like listening to Bob Rock interviews and, you know, just really understanding where it's coming from. And as you mentioned, JD, like, you know, I understand the divisiveness and whatnot, but oh my gosh, I, I was already in love when I listened to it the first couple of times at this point, you know, I'm, I'm firm in my, my commitment to, to in Gord, we trust, you know, And to see that...[11:17] That friendship. I mean, he, he, he makes the statement. We were like two teenagers that were in the studio, just making music together. And, um, you know, to hear how the whole process went and I know we'll get into it and everybody, you know, obviously we'll provide their input. Um, I fell in love with it even more, you know, and, and the variety on this, this album i mean guys we got reggae we got we got west coast punk we got 70s glam we got 80s synth pop we've got you know it it just every even within certain songs you'll have a jump from one friggin genre to another and then you you know you start looking at all the studios they recorded in, the process that it took, the number of years, the people that are involved.[12:13] And especially after we've discussed with the last three albums, like it was just fun to, I felt like, I felt like I got a warm hug from Gord. I really did. Just like, I just was all that, that we went through. It was like, Hey, this is just when it's fun. And this is, this This is for you, music lovers. That's what I felt. That's what I felt. I love that. I haven't watched much with Bob Rock, but I did read that one of the reasons why it took until 2023 to rear its head was because it was too painful for him to, like, he was really emotional following the death of Gordani in 2017. Absolutely. Because they had gotten lungs. Yeah. They had become such close friends and, you know, they reference, you know.[13:09] Uh, Gord flew out to talk about world container and they'd figured that out in 15 minutes. And then they spent the rest, the rest of the conversation talking about being dads, being Canadians, being hockey lovers. And, and then that just continued. And I think those guys, you know, with the level that they were at, I think they kind of found it was a peer to peer relationship.[13:32] And I really felt like they found refuge in each other. And then I think they sought it out because it was a long relationship. I mean, was it 06 when World Container was being made or coming out? Up until the very end. And that's when they first met is when he came out, or at least per what I had listened to. You know, they flew out to Maui, to his studio in Maui, Gord did, and then, you know, like I said, Discuss World Container. And then they didn't really do much as it was described until after the second album, We Are The Same, that they did. And then that's when the, you know, that relationship in the music for Luster Parfait started. So yeah, I mean, I recommend everyone to check into this. And Bob rock doesn't seem like, you know, like you.[14:25] You just, he didn't, didn't do a lot of, I mean, of course he gets on the documentaries, he gets a lot of airtime and whatnot, but beyond that, you know, there's not a ton, I guess, but the stuff specific to this is well worth, you can just hear the genuineness all these years after, like last year was a lot of the interviews that were going on and he's still breaking up. Like you're still oh yeah um and he's just he's like you go bob rock and you like you think the guy's flying you know coming in on the learjet all the time and he's like most of these interviews he's like just got done feeding his horses craig what was your first experience like i was also traveling uh down to seattle for a ball game and i was on on the amtrak train taking my notes and i I actually wrote, I'm going to read this and don't get mad at me. But I said, hate to be negative on this last album, but there's a lot to pick apart.[15:25] Two days ago, we were supposed to record this episode, and we had to postpone. And that evening, at 10.30 at night, I texted you guys a photo. A package arrived, and the CD was dropped off by Amazon. So I got the CD, and I started looking at the lyrics. And then the next day, I popped it in the car. And it's been in there for a couple days now, and I've been listening to it quite a lot. And my opinion has totally changed. Changed it's like some of this and i think it's what you said jd it's it's a very long album and so some of my favorite songs come at the end and what i what i've been doing is hitting shuffle and that's when it really started to um pick up for me is when i started listening on shuffle before getting the cd that i liked hearing just random songs come on and then and i thought it it was a problem with the sequencing at first but then i realized it's probably more because when the album came out i did listen a couple times when it first came out but i think i only got through the first four songs and so now i'm getting to know and love these later songs and then when i got the cd it just all kind of started working for me and i'm like wow some of the things that i was going to be nitpicking on today's episode i think i've I've grown to appreciate Justin, my man. Yeah.[16:51] Talk to me about your relationship with this release and has it changed since your first listen? So I pre-ordered this last year and yeah, this, this CD was in heavy rotation for me until, um, until you asked us to be part of the podcast. So I've been cold Turkey since January or whenever it was and waiting for for this week to get back into it. Yeah. I love this album, and I wish that Gord had done a Broadway show.[17:27] Um, could you imagine after hearing how strong his vocal is? Um, and especially during this time period. And it's funny, Craig, that you mentioned that you did not like this album. And then today you changed your mind. I took a break from this cause I've been over listening and I went back to the grand bounce and I love that freaking album as of today. And everybody knows I did not love that album when we were doing the podcast. Yay![18:00] Yeah. I love this news. It grew on me big time today. And Justin, one of the interviews that I watched, they actually said that the lyrics were almost like a screenplay on Luster Parfait and that there is a movie inside this album. It's just no one has brought it forth. So I like that. Broadway play. Movie i think i saw some of the same interviews you did um the one with uh terry mulligan was i actually listened to it a few times um to pick that apart but um yeah it would be it would be fantastic if that film was to get made or some sort of video component to this um but you know this was at gourd's you got to remember this the vocals recorded a decade ago and this was at gourd's busiest period and i would say his strongest period um vocally um and seems that way but you know bob also said in the in the interviews that he intentionally um potted gourd's mic up so that it was more on the forefront you know with the hip gourd's voice was an instrument um with this album it is the show and that absolutely rings true and you know jd the the songs that you mentioned just...[19:24] Kick my ass every time i hear it and i've heard them i've heard them 50 times at this point you know without exaggerating um yeah it's it's a very cool album a very confusing album uh stylistically um and it's very long but i can palette that um and i had the same issues craig um with stopping and starting and you hear you've you know you've heard the first six songs on this album probably twice as many times as the final seven or eight um and it's just it takes a commitment to get through it um and every song is long in addition to them there being so many of them um you know there's several songs that are five or six minutes um yeah seven and a half right it's for the moment is a wild place and i'm really interested in in your guys's uh mvp, yeah tracks for this like more than any other album we've done yeah because i think it's going to be all over the place i i've got mine and i i think this was like the easiest choice i've had to make and this is the first time i don't i quite literally don't have an mvp i'm i'm pulling the trigger when we talk every other album first three listens i had it down i mean i'm usually the first one to chime up i i can't i i just haven't been able to pick one it's strange that that it's It's opposite.[20:48] Should we try and untangle this web that Justin just spoke of, this mystery of a record, and go track by track? We start with, Greyboy says.[20:59] Music.[24:42] I mean, from the first note, it's like, what the hell are we listening to? And in the best way, you know, I just had no idea that this is where we were going. You know, and I love World Container and I love We Are The Same. And we all know everything else that Bob Rock has done. And this is not any of those things. It's bizarrely different. Um, and who the hell is gray boy, right? Like I've spent a year now trying to figure that out. And I thought I'd read something that it was a DJ. Um, yeah, I read that too. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but there's a DJ out of San Diego, uh, named gray boy. Um, sort of like an acid jazz DJ I read and it could be him he's referencing, but I'm not sure if that's no idea. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just a, a total, it's a mind fuck right from the beginning. And, and I was really like, okay, I'm turning this up. Um, you know, I remember listening to it in my car, um, the first time that I, that I put it on. However, I wanted to ask, um, JD and Craig, if, if you guys had any of this, um, on air in Canada, did, were any of these songs played on terrestrial radio? Yeah.[26:05] I don't recall hearing it on the radio i don't listen to a lot of uh local radio i'm usually, you know serious yeah xm listener but um but no i didn't hear it i did see the video though and so this song is a song i heard right away when it came out because of the the video which uh if you've seen it it has um some of the guys from offspring dexter nude and yeah and And when I look at the track listing, they don't actually, they don't play on the track. So they were just kind of there for the video and having fun filming the video. And Bob Rock's got James Hetfield's ESP that he's playing in it. And so it's a pretty cool video.[26:49] Did you guys recognize the drummer? I did, yeah. So Abe- Abe Laborio Jr. That's Paul McCartney's drummer. Yeah, really quick connection. When I was in my original band back in the 90s, we had a drummer who filled in for us fairly often when we were down a drummer. And he was roommates at Berklee with Abe. Really? And I didn't meet Abe, But one time he was in town for either sting or McCartney and our singer slash, you know, front front man got to jam with Abe and he came back and told me that he has never felt anything like it being in the room with him. He said when the, when the kick drum hit one, it was unlike anything he's ever experienced as a musician. So it was just that tight. And you can hear that tightness in his playing. Yeah. I mean, you don't get picked up as Paul McCartney's drummer, unless you know what the F you're doing. 20 years.[28:17] Video and, and, And he even plays and he's like, he's a beast of a man, right? He's, he's, he's, he's a big guy, but he's just sweet. I've had opportunity. There's a show called ma'am national associate music merchants. If you're a musician, you should know about it. It's every year in Anaheim. So it's pretty close. So I've been going for years and years and he's there quite a bit. And so, you know, had few little interactions and he's just, yeah, he's a, he's a sweetheart just, and, and an incredible musician. Oh, wow. Incredible musician. Well, they did it weird, right? Because they released Lester Parfait, and then they released a three-song EP, or maybe that was the time they released Lester Parfait. And then they released a six-song EP. And it had The Moment is a Wild Place, Camaro, Lester Parfait, Grey Boy Says, I think. So they did that But I'm not sure about, I'm not sure whether Lester Parfait Was considered the lead single or not Hold on I have it open here So that's why I asked you guys If you'd heard it on the air because Again the station that I talk about all the time Here WBQX played Lester Parfait Over and over last year Wow And I think that I heard Grey Boy Says as well On the radio.[29:45] Damn So we were talking earlier about sequencing. I believe it was Craig that was talking about it. So we'll start with him here because when I first heard the next track, which is the Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk, I remember thinking, what the fuck kind of sequencing is this? We go from, you know, this crazy rock song to like a kid's song. And then all of a sudden that chorus hits and you're just like, wow. I would love to be next to a fucking stack listening to that, feeling my pant legs whistle in the wind. Fucking right. That would be just fantastic. Craig, what do you think of The Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk? I really love this song. I think there's a lot of things that really stuck out. The lyrics were great. The chorus, like you mentioned, is powerful. There's the nod to the east wind, I think, in the lyrics of the chorus.[30:47] And it's just a strongly written song. There's a very unique melody. And there's a really cool descending tremolo guitar that I thought was effective. And some nice piano. piano there's a really wild synth solo which was really cool followed by an acoustic guitar solo which you know to to the opposite of what i said last song i loved i thought bob rock killed that solo an acoustic guitar solo is very hard to pull yes agreed to make it sound you have to be spot on and not only does the tone of the guitar have to be good but you have to have the feel.[31:28] And because you hear every slide you hear every nuance you're every bend you hear every chord configuration if you're if you're throwing that in so i agree 100 craig yeah you have to be kyle gas and when you're playing a playing an acoustic soloing you don't have that sustain when you're bending a note so it's just a so someone who tries to play you know just take electric solo and played on acoustic it's not going to sound the same so i thought he did a great job of crafting a solo that worked um there was some really cool like compositional tricks with you know like you know leading tones passing tones and just lots of lots of things to love in this um and also one quick thing at the end the vocal jumps up an octave going into that last chorus just a great great trick yeah and yeah the lyrics i just you know pulled out the lyric booklet two days ago and really wild stuff what do you think justin yeah it's the same exactly the same it's a kid's song and then it's not right um and it's the the storytelling and the.[32:40] You know i can see that helmet the imagery that he tells the story um and one of these interviews um um, that Gord had done, um, which nobody knew it at the time, but it was during these sessions.[32:58] Um, he had mentioned that Bob had asked him to speak more clearly. Don't be so vague with your lyrics. Tell, tell a story that people can understand without having to pull out an encyclopedia and boy, you got it right in this one. Um, you know, this is, it's very cut and dried. Um, it's, it's nothing to figure out. I, I just love how, how clear and concise it is. And some days I just can't do it, you know? Um.[33:28] I think we've all had that. Fuck yeah. Kirk, what do you think? Well, being the elder of the group and someone who really grew up in the 80s, I heard this song. I was joking before when we first started talking on, you can't see me, folks, but I'm doing the 80s dance. When I heard that song the first time, I got that new wave post. I just felt like a kid again in high school. And when you'd hear those, we were in the heart of new wave. It was like true post-punk, like Sex Pistols, late 70s, early 80s, punk, post-punk, where it's now you're getting the precursors to, you know, what becomes Green Day and Blink-182 and everything. But there's, I mean, fuck, there's five keyboards parts on this song, five separate keyboard, you know, credits listed and you can hear it. Um, so, you know, I would say, I know I'd mentioned at the beginning, like I couldn't pick an MVP. This was one that just always stood out. I wouldn't again say MVP, but loved it. It made me feel good every time I listened to it. And then Kirk's going to roll into his second criticism of the entire, uh, series. And I believe it was, is it Tim? I was just going to say, who are you, Tim?[34:47] Like i don't necessarily have an issue with fade outs but i struggled with the fade out on this one i really did i i was like i don't come on just like end it it's a long fade out too it's a long very long fade out very long fade out so um so you know i uh i i again if you guys know i really don't care but odds it's it's all good matthew good he was also strippers union so you know yeah he did the drums on that he was also like the house drummer for the kids in the hall so oh yeah yeah so like how cool is that that you got you go from paul mccartney's drummer to you know brian adams matthew good all the stuff that that pat did so um yeah uh great song uh just uh really helping the love affair uh with the album and uh you know outside of the i could have done without the fade out um friggin loved.[35:56] It friggin loved it it's a 20 second fade out though like it's it's long it's much sort of it's much i'm usually okay with it but this was you know the one thing though the reason why i brought it up is because i kept having to look at my phone going did my phone die um because i'm like the song was the next song wasn't coming he's got late and i couldn't tell if it was going out or if it was the intro but it's yeah it's a 20 second long outro insane justin how about you buddy yeah i i knew somebody was going to mention the fade out. I didn't hate it because the song is kind of long and it's like, alright, it kind of feels appropriate.[36:38] But yeah, no, I just love the song and I don't know, how many times are you going to say the sonic sounds like nothing else you know and i i understand you know he really wasn't necessarily involved in much of the the writing of the parts, um but i don't know it's just so freaking cool yeah it is it's very cool, so luster parfait what do you think of that track that's the one song that my daughter has grabbed a hold of because of the hey hey hey um you know i don't i don't know what the song is about but i picture it as gourd's love letter to music um and you know performing live we gather in the dark um you know we can only connect um that's that may be the only way that some people connect that's how we all connected right is through music and specifically gourd's music um i just this this uh this song you can't help but feel good listening to um it's such a fun freaking song and there's horns and there's that little you know half step.[37:58] Kind of thing in the chorus and it's it's really really interesting and it's very fun and it's funny almost um just the the energy that that gourd has and that the entire i want to say band but you know the people playing in the song it just sounds like every i can picture every single person in there playing with a smile on their face you know and and just enjoying the shit out of this whole process it's a luster parfait baby would you dig into the yeah because it starts off with horns and you we haven't had horns per se um on i mean i guess is this what it sounded with davis manning like i i i'll put my cards out there and i haven't heard a lot of it so i don't really know what the hip sounded like with him, but like you've got a full on sack. So what's that, Justin? Not like this. Davis Manning did not sound like this.[39:02] Ah no he sounded like uh and i he sounded like an 80s you know bar band saxophonist that's because that's exactly what it was who can it be now i'm in at work right but the horns just hit you right up front um and uh the the sax solo like in the middle and then And, you know, a really cool, as we talked about, you know, it's got a hard ending, which is great. But in the end, that little vamp with the B3 and the piano, like Justin said, the music all around, you just, you can't listen to it and not smile and not feel like that was the energy when it was being recorded.[39:51] So the one note that I wrote here too that I think is really cool. Um and it kind of speaks to what you guys were saying is like a like a a letter to music but he described the bridge bob did uh as being essentially the sensational alex harvey band and if you don't know anything about the sensational alex harvey band just look it up just youtube it and i'll leave that there um you know i guess i'll call it like the canadian david Bowie during the Ziggy Stardust years is, is probably a good way to describe it. So, um, but how cool is that? That like throwing that right in, right in after you get these two rockers and now he's going glam and, um, yeah, this just brilliant, uh, brilliant, brilliant, uh, title track song.[40:47] I really liked the, speaking of the bridge, the sort of chromatics and the bridge. And then at the very end, it blends into the final chorus.[40:59] So, you know, luster parfait, hey, hey, which I thought was very cool. Um yeah and speaking of the lyrics at the at the start it says isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge and i looked up a scene from the deluge because it was capitalized and i found a painting called scene from a deluge from 1806, and it's a pretty wild painting i'll just read the description really quickly the man perched on a rock hangs from a from a tree that is beginning to break he tries to pull up his wife and two children all while supporting on his back an old man who carries a purse in his hand the sky is streaked with lightning like justin right now and a cadaver floats in the agitated water it's a pretty i'll just hold my screen it's pretty wild um anyways uh pretty wild so i'm not sure what he's getting at but uh but yeah definitely what's the lyric yeah it's the it's the intro isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge, which as you describe it, it was pretty, uh, pretty stark. Yeah. Like, yeah.[42:26] Yeah. Like he's hanging on to like his wife and two kids with one arm, like by her one arm. So I guess there's not too much he can do.[42:35] Other quick notes. I just want to mention the horns. So the horns, the saxophone is played by Tom Keenleyside, who is a local Vancouver-based saxophone flautist. And he has been all over. He has played with so many different artists. and actually the very first cassette i ever bought back in grade seven i think i just finished grade seven and i was in the kitchen i can still i remember exactly where i was and on the radio came, rag doll by aerosmith 1987 and i was drawn in by the horns because i i'm i started playing saxophone in grade six so i was drawn in by that and steve tyler's voice and that song grabbed me right away I took my money from my piggy bank and I bought a Walkman and a cassette tape you know the next day and that's really where my journey with rock music started and so Bob Rock was the engineer on that album Permanent Vacation and Tom Cunley side played the saxophone so I thought there's a cool kind of full circle for for me personally um you know seeing that he was the one And because as soon as I heard horns, I knew it was him. Listen, I don't know where you would put a showcase track on a record from a sequencing standpoint.[44:02] Music.[50:44] The vocals uh that are going on in this um you got and then going back to bob and all the guitars like you've got acoustic guitars you got two lead guitars you've got what sounds almost like what i know as like a slack hawaiian slack guitar it sounds like a pedal steel but there's nothing in the liner the the the pedal steel song is not this song um it's got that kind of a you know of acoustic and slide in the beginning and and then you've got this the chorus that just uh you know it's uh it it it's like a dump truck of love coming down with this massive gourd here i am and and you understand why many people call it their favorite and uh a song that is seven minutes in 26 seconds and sounds like it's maybe a couple minutes so when you know that a song that's that long can just like you get lost in and you don't even think that it's that long you know you know it's it's obviously very very well written craig what were your thoughts i thought the.[52:02] Yeah the chorus was was what made it and the moment is a wild place reminded me of you know like a theme throughout his work about living in the moment where whether it's the dance and its disappearance or never ending ending present and i'm sure there are many others i know we've discussed them on this podcast so that was really really a great tie-in um the hawaiian guitar i loved as well at the start and you know you have to think that it is bob rock playing that so it you know he lives in maui much of you know much of the year from what i've heard and And, you know, he's soaking up all that Island music and, and yeah, my only other real note was, um, like a couple of quick things. Sean Nelson is the drummer on this track and the last one who I had to look up and he's actually, um.[52:54] Not someone who's played on a ton of high profile albums or anything. He's a drum instructor out of, I believe, San Francisco, I read. And, you know, very cool that he had that opportunity to work on this album. And one last thing, the piano flourishes at the end, reminded me of Dr. P from the country of miracles, which was very cool. Nice callback. Wow. Yeah. That's a great. Yeah. Justin, how about you? The moment is a wild place. Well, you know, I keep referencing my love of Prague and this sounds like a pink board. I can see that.[53:38] I love that it's long. I love that it's got, they use all 88 keys. You know, from low to high, it's It's really just a beautiful song, and the lyrics remind me of Secret Path. Heal. I don't know. There's definitely some tie-ins in my brain to Channing and his story. I don't believe that. Wow. Because this was probably written before secret path was even in chords around the same time around the same time it was birthed.[54:24] Yeah. But you know, I just, yeah, I think this is one of the songs that Bob said that Gordon heard completed before he passed.[54:36] Oh, that's nice to hear. Yeah. Uh, and, but Jesus Christ, the range that this guy has, right? Like, uh, I don't know. It, it, I fall apart whenever I hear the song. It's it's in in the best of ways you hear this song and it's almost like has he not been trying all these years you know because he's like he's got this in his fucking back pocket holy shit you have this in your back pocket and you're 50 years old time gourd god the other thing that i think is is uh something i just want to comment on really quickly is somebody who deals with mental wellness and is uh working on his mental health i look at this song almost the same way i look at the darkest one in that it's got this sort of clever twist right it's like the wild are strong, and the strong are the darkest ones and you're the darkest one so it's like starts out as almost this great compliment but it turns into something else and in this song it's like hey everybody you got to be in the moment you got to be in the moment but sometimes the moment is a wild fucking place that you don't want to be in so i'm going to put a bow in this jd and you guys.[56:04] So yeah i had mentioned earlier i was you know on the rooftop in madrid and i'm listening to the I'm listening to the Kevin Drew Niles interview, and you'd put this song in, sorry, Inside Baseball.[56:23] This song comes on, and it turns midnight in Madrid, and frigging fireworks start going off everywhere around the city. And I don't know if it was the transition from June to July. I don't know if it was the Spain had just won their Euro cup game earlier in the day, or if it was just, you know.[56:52] Tuesday in Spain at midnight, we like to put off fireworks, but I'm, I'm, you know, up there. Like I said, I've had a few glasses. I'm feeling wonderful. I'm jet lagged. I'm listening to that brilliant, brilliant, brilliant interview. The song comes on and fireworks start shooting off quite literally in the middle of it. So the moment is a wild place. Yeah, sure fucking is. Boy. Well, let's move to track five and something more. Craig, how do you feel something more lives up to its role as a follow-up song for The Moment is a Wild Place? This is a tour de force song and a showcase piece. Is this the right sequencing order? I'm just curious what you think. Yeah, that's a good question. I'll need to think about that some more, but I do think the song was quite good. It reminded me, vocally reminded me of like earlier Gord.[57:58] And it's the first song on Lester Parfait that did sound like a previous version of Gord. The horns are great, which is what makes it sound so it doesn't just sound like a copy of something that he did earlier. There were some great dissonant guitar shots that were very cool and a little horn part. And of course, we have to shout out the drummer on this song because it is none other than Johnny Faye, who makes an appearance a number of times on this album. And you can tell. He just has such a great... He's playing on an album with Pat Stewart, with Abe, and he fits right in there because he's just such a musical player.[58:46] He has such a great tone to his drums always, and it was just a treat to hear him again. He's also listed as backing vocals. I think that's on a later track. I think track number 11, I think, for some reason. Oh, okay. All right. Right. But speaking of vocals, I have in my notes that Johnny Faye said this was Gord's best vocal ever recorded, hip or otherwise. I've never heard – I've been listening to him since 1989, and I've never heard anything like this. Right, right. There's a lot of strong, strong Gord vocals. And he's also got a very powerful voice. We know that because watching a special video of his later performances where he's more guttural and screaming but holding the microphone down at his belly button. And you can still hear just how powerful his voice is. That's really wild that Johnny Faye would say that. This is the first one that, at least for the album version.[59:58] This song is actually towards the end. So kind of wild. Or at least from a lyrical standpoint, it goes something more in the field, and then there goes the sun. So it's one of the last three songs on the album. you've got an error your album's on that skirt my album is a wild place i'm not i'm not even lying guys i'm not lying look at it right there it's third from the end odd odd that that you know as we talk about the sequencing that's the listed you know outside of the comment from johnny i just you know gothic synths driving drums bright horns really amazing solo um uh just I like it actually in the spot that we're talking about it from a sequencing standpoint, as opposed to towards the end. Because it is one of those that, I guess they're all in the MVP category opportunity, but this to me might have been in the upper quarter of MVP opportunities.[1:01:04] What do you think, Justin? um i spent a fair amount of time on the lyrics on this one and trying to there's a lot of stuff that's in quotes um and i tried to figure out what he was referencing by a lot of stuff and the only thing this is the silliest thing that i think could have come out of this was the cool hand of a girl all i found for that was a mexican restaurant in toronto jd have you been there it's It's called The Cool Hand of a Girl.[1:01:39] Hand of a Girl. That's the only thing that I found on the internet with those words in hand. No, I've not heard of that restaurant. No. And I did some research on the restaurant, and it's been open since before this was recorded. So was he talking about a Mexican restaurant? It's an MO, man.[1:01:59] Yeah um i i did love the uh the line i legalize criminality and criminalize dissent i love that because i american who is fucking terrified right now and um that's where i live is where criminality is legal and dissent is criminal uh quite fucking literally, um i don't know the um you know you guys had referenced that this is this is sort of old gourd and the thing that really stuck out for me because i felt the same way it was yeah he said fuck you in this song and this album to that point feels too clean to have those lyrics, to have him say that. And the way that he says it is really live-gored, you know, the ranting voice, almost. He drags the F out in that word.[1:03:09] I like this song. It's not my favorite. I don't know why it's not my favorite i don't know why it's not not my favorite but um yeah this song is is fine and it the the as far as the sequencing goes you know the moment is a wild place is such a deep valley um that this just gets us right back up in the air and and we're on to our next stop and And, um, I, I liked the energy of it, um, to follow, um, yeah, in a wild place. But, um, other than that, I don't know. I think it's got another showcase vocal, uh, toward the end, the latter third of the song when he goes up high. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if you guys, uh, like, I'm not going to try and sing it, but do you know the part I'm talking about where he goes up very high? Yeah. Again, that's not something we've heard from him before. Him going into a place like that.[1:04:15] I could see the classic Gord sweat in this song. He worked hard in this one. And you know what? Moving on to Camaro, I sort of get a sweaty kind of vibe from this one, too. What do you think about this one, Justin? My first thought was, is Gord a secret car guy? like that would be amazing for you oh, No, I mean, this, this is, uh, this is, you know, you're in high school and this is the first car you can afford. Um, this is not a nice Camaro, by the way, the, I had, this is a, this is a 72 that nobody wanted and I found it for 400 bucks in the classifieds and let's go, you know, um, uh, I don't know. It's got no floor on the passenger side but everything else is cool you can see the lines on the road through the friggin' drin you can Barney Rubble it, it's a piece of shit but it's my car, it's my wheels and I love it, I actually went back and listened to other Camaro related songs.[1:05:33] Kings of Leon and Dead Milkmen Bitchin' Camaro You know, just, just, I went back to that for some reason. I don't know. It was, it was cool to just kind of revisit that. Bitching Camaro. Did you see Justin on this particular song and this actually brings up a question for me. The song is Bob said was written because that's his wife's favorite car was a Camaro and then he gave it to Gord and Gord was like, I don't want to write about a Camaro. I'm going to write about a girl named Camaro. So the lyrics are about a girl named Camaro but the title Camaro came from bob's um and this is again this is just what bob mentioned about it um his wife's favorite car so apologies yeah and isn't that crazy isn't that totally crazy and and.[1:06:36] Yeah. You know, a great song. Um, I have, uh, I have like talking heads listed as kind of a vibe in, in, in a lot of them actually have a real, you know, kind of eccentric talking heads, kind of odd jazzed influence horns, um, as well. So, yeah, but anyway, love that. It's a girl named Camaro. Great. I love the line of the chorus, Camaro, the name means just what you think the car can do, go. Just the way he phrases it is just very odd. Until I read it, I didn't realize what he was trying to say at the end.[1:07:16] And yeah, just very cool phrasing. it reminded me of um i couldn't get the simpsons out of my head the canyonero canyonero, but that's just where my mind went but my also my dad had he's currently rebuilding a uh a 1980 camaro in silver so i'm uh i actually just texted him to see if he could text me a picture of it but he's uh he's a car guy and yeah he's working on one as we speak so So it did bring back a memory that I had repressed from high school where I got a ride with a buddy's sister's boyfriend who had a Trans Am, you know, like a Burt Reynolds Smokey and the Bandit vintage. And we went 140 miles an hour on the way home. That's the only time I was certain that I was going to die was in the backseat of that car. And it's a Trans Am, not a Camaro, but same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Night.[1:08:15] Music.[1:12:50] The North Shore is the first track on the record to me that sounds like vintage hip. It could be at home on Day for Night, a different production version of it could have been on Fully Completely, maybe even Hen House. It's of that sort of vintage. Am I totally crazy, or am I barking up the right tree, Kurt? Yeah i mean i have i have written uh alt rock style um kind of ballad so you know that's i think that hip would fall into that that uh realm but the song sounded big to me it got big you know it starts off with that kind of acoustic piano in intro and um and and the cool thing like most scored lyrics is like is he talking about the north shore of maui is he talking about the north shore of you know lake ontario everyone because like everyone kind of has a north shore, and um i i uh i i i just appreciate again the his ability to um.[1:14:05] Keep you guessing and keep us talking for many more episodes of podcasts to dissect Accord's lyrics. Yeah. And I recall seeing an interview with Bob Rock where he kind of mentioned the same thing. He talked about the North shore in Maui. There's a North shore in Vancouver where, you know, Bob Rock would, would know about the North shore that I actually spent the first four years of my life on the North shore in North Vancouver. And, um, I'm I'm thinking he's probably talking about the lake only because he mentions, I think it swallows, which there wouldn't be, I don't think in Maui on the North shore there. It's much too windy. There's little sparrows, I think, but I could be wrong.[1:14:46] But, but yeah, it's meant to be for wherever your North shore is. And it really is a great song. It could be, could have been a radio hit is that, that type of song I did. This is one of those songs that earlier on I had a critique about the chorus being too generic. So the chord structure is one we've heard a million times. But then the more I listened to it, I started thinking, well, there's a reason this chord structure has been used a million times. It's powerful. And when Gord is added to this mix, it does sound original. And it sounds great. I really love the harmonies at the end in the guitar. There's some sort of like Boston seventies via seventies, like guitar rock vibe on the, on the harmonies, which I dug or like, or like almost like a thin Lizzie or something. So yeah, solid song all around.[1:15:39] Justin, your thoughts. Yeah. I actually, um, view this as a followup to the last recluse. Um, like, yep. That's all that to me lyrically. Um, I also went back to Summer's Killing Us from In Between Evolution, because I really do love the lyrics about one more breeze and summer's complete. And then at the end, he goes back to summer lowers its flag now. And obviously the word is summer. And so that is my tie in. But, you know, the the uptempo of summer is killing us and summer exists at the fair. Right you know like this is yeah summer kicks ass and then this is the end of it like we're going back to school now and uh the leaves are falling off of the trees and you know it just um i also really loved the line we occurred to each other 48 hours a day how fucking amazing is that line um when you're in love holy hell that's that's all you think about and um.[1:16:52] Fingers and toes 40 things we share you know uh yeah or fireworks um yeah believing in the country of me and you that's what it was yeah yeah yeah i agree with the last recluse reference though and the way he sings it is actually very similar to we held hands between our bikes it's very and if you've seen the video for the last recluse as well they actually show that with you know these two kids with their yeah well um track number eight is this nowhere kirk this song like i even have i told you about my nights at the ihop i would go after work here over the last couple days and and it's the right next to the hotel and it's simple and so i wrote this on a little napkin holder and my note says it's the same phrasing as one from.[1:17:42] You too i'm sure you guys all that's right yes yeah so and then all of a sudden what's that justin reference to it too midway through the song oh yeah it it's not getting better like he's bull right he is ripping this song he's admitting yep that's a great pick up justin yeah good friend right and then you have one more coffee in the bill which is gonna come up later as one of the lyrics and the backing that the chorus just boom shade shade of all now is that someone that you guys were familiar with ahead of this because I didn't know anything about her until I did the research Justin yeah No, Craig has a story. So Che, Amy Dorval is someone I had to look up because I heard the vocals on this song and I was so blown away by the backing vocals that I had to look her up. And she's from here. She's from Vancouver.[1:18:49] And I think she may be based out of Toronto now. I'm not quite sure. She has a couple of dates coming up in Portland and Seattle, I believe, but nothing here. So I was hoping to go check her out. But yeah, it turns out she worked with Devin Townsend on a project called Casualties of Cool. And so I went onto YouTube and looked that up. And it's very, very cool. Kind of like ambient stuff with just beautiful vocals. And yeah, Devin Townsend is a local musician who, yeah, I remember playing back in 95, sharing a bill with him when he played in a band called Strapping Young Lad. And now he's like a, you know, worldwide world, you know, renowned, uh, musician. And, uh, yeah, we have a, yeah, we have a bit of a band connection with him too. That I won't get into on, on air, but yeah. I want to love you.[1:19:45] That's so cool and then just my last two things on this song um, bob wrote five songs on her solo album and i don't know that he helped with the production he may have been the producer on it but he he wrote five songs with her very in a similar style that um he did with gourd but this is the part that gutted me gourd didn't hear the vocal, It was added after he passed.[1:20:43] I mean you know there's so many haters out there you know he the guy produced the the biggest album of the 90s like the the biggest decade for music um you know i'm pretty sure sales wise yeah i'm pretty sure the 90s as far as like you know you know actual physical product i gotta say this about bob he gives two fucks yep and it's just good for good for him to work with two he just he's living in maui with his wife and his horses and spending time with his kids and you know try you know yeah oh yeah i got to deal with this bon jovi album or this you know offspring album whatever else and then i'm gonna go and wake up and pick one of my 700 guitars and he's got he's got like just he's got he's got music for days but he doesn't sing so i mean he does a little backup vocals or whatever else but i love that about because you know i'm kind of teetering on this i love the bob rock hip albums and of course i am loving this album and and i appreciate the other stuff that i mean metallica that you know that i think that especially if you're a musician like i think i know every main riff from the black album i can't play it all but i know all the riffs of you know sandman and and um and i loved watching that documentary you know almost swore out the VHS. So I'm telling you how old I am again.[1:22:08] Yeah. Another thing about that song, I love the part after the chorus. There's that melody, the da-na, da-na, just at first it kind of throws you, but it's a really great choice.[1:22:20] And I'm going to give a little critique here. This guitar solo kind of kills me. It, it, it's just so generic and kind of boring. And actually now that you bring up the videotape of the, the Metallica, I think it's called day in the life of, I used to have a video VHS copy of that too. And there's a, there's a time on that when he's giving Kirk Hammett such a hard time about the solo. I think it was the unforgiven maybe. And he's just like, no, do it again. Do it. Gotta do your homework. Gotta do your homework. You don't do your fucking homework. So I was picturing like Kirk Hammett being in there, like giving him a hard, like hard time. And, you know, he needed, he needed Bob rock and needed a Bob rock on this song. I think.[1:23:07] Well, again, I think it comes, it comes from the fact though, too, that we've been listening to, you know, these bands and, and these records that have such a feel to them, you know, a cohesive feel. Feel and this record doesn't have that same sort of cohesive feel it's it's all over the place right 14 songs 14 songs that's in in in all the things you read he he gave him 14 songs and he got 14 songs back there was no added there was no cut it was 14 14 straight across and and at no point did i see anything that said like okay this this track was written in 1985 this track was It was written in 2010. It just was part of his cadre of music that he's had lying around. And again, I'd really be interested to know if the titles are Bob's or Gord's. I'd be really interested to know. I guess ultimately it would have come down to Bob in the end. But I'm sure he would have respected it. I think Gord, in their discussions, they would have had. I'm sure. But you're right. I mean, they are co-producers.[1:24:23] Co-writers of the of the record yeah craig i'll put a bow on your statement this was sorry i'm i'm getting a little too flowery with the bob rock quotes and everything else but his statement was budget wise i was the only guitar player available, so there's your answer to the solo okay okay sorry bob i i really i should say i i'm a bob rock fan i love both of the hip albums he did and and like i already mentioned my permanent vacation story and also sonic temple was a big one for me when i was young and that was his yeah me and my buddy found that cassette tape on the side of the road by my dad's work someone had thrown it out the window or something and we found it no no case just the tape and took that home and And yeah, so I'm a big, big Bob rock fan. So sorry, Justin. Yeah. I mean, apart from the backing vocals, I don't love this song. Um, and I think it's kind of the reasons why you guys said it's just not something musically doesn't do it for me. Um, and that's no disrespect to anybody, but the, you know, the background vocals are just so freaking stellar that it's it props the song up probably higher than it should rank for me.[1:25:48] Um yeah and i really you know i didn't care for the youtube the youtube riff and and it just it's just strange right it pulls you out it almost pulls you out of the song because you're like thrust into another song but like i said i do i do appreciate that gourd references the u2 song yes and says it's not getting better that's very cool okay all right well then we know what we're doing at least yeah good on him for for recognizing that and i'm guessing it was just an accident then he he either he noticed it or someone else pointed it out and then yeah know, I'll just add a lyric in here and it's all good. I think it's better than one personally. The next song is To Catch the Truth. Kurt, we'll start with you. Yeah, man. So here we go. We got a ska song, a frigging ska song, in my opinion. No doubt, Mighty Mighty Boston's, whatever your flavor is. But.[1:26:51] I love ska. I love ska. My wife loves ska and we grew up in Orange County. I used to go see No Doubt, play at colleges and play at local bars and crap like that.[1:27:07] And Mighty Mighty Boston is probably the – not even probably, by far the loudest concert I've ever been to, leaps and bounds. But gorge's doing a ska tune um west coast punk was uh was mentioned in a couple of the reviews that i saw vancouver's scene dug in the slugs um it's just a fun great song you know the beauty of ska at least from my standpoint so um loved it absolutely loved the tune jay dog yeah i uh remember very fondly uh watching real big fish in a very small room and um river city rebels were a big ska band horn band here in burlington and i used to you know sneak into shows underage and and love it um it's a fun song it's just fun and um gourd packs a lot into this song um it's i don't really have any any critiques yay or nay other than man i remember being 15 16 years old and going to these shows and having a hell of a good time when i first heard this song the the amount of compression bothered me it's just like.[1:28:31] You know squished and also i found it strange i was thinking in the realm of like goldfinger or something like that and in what in one channel you've got the guitar the other side you've got the piano and i found the way the piano was so clean was a bit bothers bothersome at first, and i had a note i wish it was almost like rag timed up a bit like or you know a bit like maybe even a bit out of tune or just something to give it a little bit of personality that would be my one see this is the song that i felt was like the the mouth i did yeah i think it was the piano a melody but what i mean is is the actual sound yeah no but not the sound i i hear what you're saying craig it was too clean it needed to be like someone had a mic in the room of a saloon with some out of tune piano and then that would have been the that would have been the flavor that would have been the added that well because i like my note west coast punk like you don't tune up when you're playing punk songs you play what's on the friggin guitar that's exactly what So I hear that. I think that's a very fair, very fair criticism.[1:29:37] After listening to it on the CD last night, though, I found that it wouldn't have worked if it was done as a more sort of raw punk or like, if it wasn't compressed in that way, the vocals would not have popped in the same way. And so I think it was probably the right choice in hindsight. But like I said, if it could be just dirtied up a bit in some way, I think I would have enjoyed it a little bit more. I did like the beginning. It's kind of like a strange introduction. There's also those hard stops at the end. What's real? What's fake? There's not a dirty song on this record. You know, this record is not, it's not got, it is like that Camaro. Somebody's out polishing it with a shammy. It's pristine and clean. Let me howl.[1:30:29] Music.[1:36:30] This was one of my favorites. Really enjoyed this song. Really strong melodies. It's unlike any other song in style. And again, we keep coming back to this, but it does not sound like any other Gord song. Doesn't sound like any other song on this album. Very much like an 80s vibe musically. There's a, you know, because I've criticized some solos, I will say I did enjoy the clean guitar solo on this song. And then there's a sax solo that comes in over top of that and i like how that how the tempo goes into halftime and then it kicks back in at the end yeah solid song so i got i got big money from rush in the intro that's what it felt like to me okay so just think of that synth you know.[1:37:21] Big money when before it comes in so but you're right man that that breakdown with the guitar and the sax i just kept repeating that i freaking loved that like and you know you guys you know i i'm i like the dead and and one of the reasons why i think i like the tragically hit because they are jam band no matter what you say they are jam band and they're not going to go off into crazy solos well they did go off into crazy gourd vocal solos you could say right but you know rob's not ripping it for 25 minutes and and you know breaking out the wall and making sure you're you know timing your dose just right but um it it i i love that part to this is that um that that that breakdown. Cause you just, and again, and I'm also a big rush fan. So that intro, so yeah, yeah, this is one of those, like I said, I didn't have my MVP, but this was definitely like a strong, strong candidate. And then my final note on this, this was the last vocal recorded before he was diagnosed is some research that I did. So this was the last vocal was let me before, before he was diagnosed entirely for me.[1:38:41] Not necessarily the meaning, but just context. Wow. Been hitting the head with the shovel here. Who else needs to talk about Let Me Howl? I think it's just Justin, right? Who, me? Yeah. Yeah, the sax makes me feel like I'm driving a cab in Manhattan in 1986.[1:39:06] And it's raining out. you know uh it's so freaking cool and it's a long song and it does weird things i remember the first time that i heard it i thought that we were going to have a fade out on the on that half you know the the slower beat um or the half time whatever you want to call it and, and then out of nowhere this massive film and and we're back and we're faster than we were before, right like it there there's a sense of urgency at the end of the song like let me howl here like i'm i gotta get this out and um it's really really fun like again it's, you can slow dance to this song and you can boogie to this song and you can, i don't know it's it's really really fun and um it's up there for mvp for me it's not my mvp but it's top three or four. I also like how the chorus, let me howl. And on the word howl, he has this like glissando up, like a slow glissando up along with the harmony, which is what a wolf does. Like, um, he's not going clean from one note to another. He's got, he's, he's like slurring up to it. Okay. And like, like a wolf would do when they howl.[1:40:30] And also there's some very slight changes to the way he sings it, I believe, if I'm remembering, if this is the song I'm thinking of, where the chorus slightly changes like the notes he's singing different times or the harmony changes. Something changes a little bit that I thought was really cool. I didn't listen to it today, so.[1:40:52] Justin, hell breaks loose. What do you think? I immediately, before I knew it, I knew that this was Johnny Faye playing drums. Um yeah and uh it's it's a it's a really cool again and like i just referenced new york city um and it's in the first line of this song like and he paints the picture of walking into a bar and it's kirk watching a soccer game right uh fireworks on the roof elbow one of the very first dates with, with my, with my wife, we watched a world cup game in a, in a bar that was shoulder to shoulder and it was two teams I didn't give a shit about and everybody was cheering and everybody was drinking and it was, you know, and then one guy got pissed off, bigger screens, bigger feelings. Right. And it's, it's cool.

This week on the pod we wrap up Gord's discography with the Bob Rock collaboration, Lustre Parfait.Transcript:[0:00] Long Slice Brewery presents a live event celebration of Gord Downie, July 19th, at the Rec Room in Toronto. Join the hosts of the podcast, Discovering Downie, as they record their finale with special guest, Patrick Downie. A silent auction with items from the hip and many others will take place, along with live entertainment from the almost hip. All proceeds will benefit the Gord Downie Fund for Brain Cancer Research. For more information and tickets, please visit discoveringdowney.com. Clutched clipboard and staring out past the end of her first day into tonight and all the way across oceans of August to September. It makes for a beautifully vacant gaze.[1:08] Music.[1:42] Hey, it's J.D. here and welcome to Discovering Downey, an 11-part project with a focus on the music and poetry of Mr. Gord Downey. The enigmatic frontman of the Tragically Hip, Gord gave to the world an extensive solo discography on top of the vocal acrobatics in the hip that awed us for years. Gord released five albums while he was alive and three more posthumously.[2:09] Now listen, you might think you're the biggest fan of the Tragically Hip out there. However, why is it that so few of us have experience with this solo catalog? Have you really listened to those solo records? My friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk, giant fans of the hip in their own right, fell into that camp. So I invited them to Discover Downey with me, JD, as their host. Every week, we get together and listen to one of Gord's records, working in chronological order. We discuss and dissect the album, the production, the lyrics, and we break it down song by fucking song. This week, we wrap up Gord's discography with an album attributed to both Bob Rock and Gord, Luster Parfait. Craig, how goes it this week? week things are okay a bit of a break tomorrow going off on a little family trip for a couple days meeting my parents and sisters uh you've never met your parents before this is big news dude yeah yeah i think they're gonna like you man congratulations and then yeah and then shortly after that head off to toronto for for an event with you guys whoop whoop yeah How are you doing, Kirk?[3:30] You know, guys, I'm doing pretty good. It was 107 out here in Boise, Idaho, where I'm on show site. As we mentioned, I was in Europe last week, so I'm not quite sure time zone, temperate zone, what zone I'm in. I just – somebody point me in the right direction and I go. So I'm doing good, though. We had such a great time. But more importantly, I'm just really excited about next week and just hanging with you, you lads and checking out all the stuff that we have planned and, and, you know, especially that the event. So I'm that energy will get me through whatever jet lag, whatever heat stroke, whatever heck I encounter over the next seven days. So, and what about that new item? The hip gave us today to go towards our silent auction. Someone's going to get some major bragging rights. Man, we can't say what it is, but-[4:27] We might be fighting internally for this. We'll be revealing what it is, I guess, Friday. And some other great prize stuff, too. JD, you just told me and Kirk about this ridiculous prize that we got. Craig's got it memorized. Yeah. Two tickets to the Toronto Raptors. $500 in arena gift cards. and two customized or personalized jerseys and a shoot around. Man. Are you ready for this? Come on. That's great. Jadon. Yeah. You're in, you're not in Kansas. Tornado Alley. Tornado Alley. But there's twisters about. Yeah, we just had a...[5:51] And then 20 minutes later, there's a video on Facebook of a frigging tornado a half a mile up the street. What the hell? So we're fine. Yeah, that is freaky. If you look out your window and you see somebody riding a bike in the air, you're in big trouble. With a dog in the basket. That's right. Cow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but dude, I'm, I'm good. Otherwise without the weather or with the weather, I'm good. And I'm psyched for next week, man. Ooh. Yeah. Let's go. Justin. I tasted the podcast. Pilsner officially tasted it now. I had four of them at home. I gave two of them to my father-in-law and I drank two of them and they were very crisp. Delicious. Yeah. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. Awesome.[6:47] When word broke that we'd be getting a third posthumous record from Gord, there was a hush and a wait and see approach. You see, Gord had partnered with Bob Rock back in the 2010s, shortly after Rock had produced probably two of the most divisive records in the Hips catalog. I enjoy both these records a lot, but your mileage may vary. In any case, it was an uneasy feeling for fans. What would this album be? As it turns out, it's a whole lot of everything. There are songs that are reminiscent of the hip, like North Shore. There are horns on the title track, which we got to sample about six months before Lester Parfait dropped. And it relieved us.[7:41] There's even something resembling rack time? Suffice to say, as we've gotten used to saying around these parts, this album is altogether, folks, unlike anything Gord has produced before. It's been said that Bob Rock has a tendency to overstuff the records he produces. It's as though he's just been given access to a 48-track board and he feels compelled to use every last fucking track. rack. On this record, however, his hand seems firmly on the rudder. The songs come across as overly polished, of course, but never too indulgent. If there's one complaint I have, it's that there's too many goddamn songs. On a record as varied as Luster Parfait, you're almost overstimulated by the end. You've been through so many different styles and sounds. If I had it my way, this would be a tight 10-song record, and with the right tracks removed, I dare say this is a collection of songs I would put head-to-head against virtually any other record in Gord's oeuvre.[8:59] Yeah, I think it's that good. There are highs and there are lows on this record, as there have been on each of the albums, but on Luster Parfait, the highs seem higher to me. Have we ever heard Gord sing like he does on The Moment is a Wild Place? Or something more? Have we ever heard a chorus as striking as Is There Nowhere? By the way, big hat tip to Shea Dorval for providing those gorgeous backing vocals. At the end of the day, has Bob Rock redeemed himself with this effort to the haters out there? I would offer a resounding yes. Yes, this is a record that should be listened to loud and on a good pair of headphones. There is so much going on, but it all seems to have a purpose. That's what I think of Lester Parfait.[9:52] Tell me what your experience with the record is, Kirk. Yeah. So the first real listen I had to this album, because I'd been pretty busy with travel and whatnot, we were on our family vacation in Madrid. And beautiful little up on the top of the hotel looking over the city and just enjoying the wonderful atmosphere. And, um, I was actually listening to that kind of rough cut of our, um, rough cut of our interview with, uh, Niles and Kevin. And he had referenced like that. He thought that, you know, the, the, the moment is a wild places is, was his favorite song. And I'm just like, I can't hold off anymore. I need to jump in. So that was my first experience was listening to it, um, on, on the roof in Spain. And since then, it's just been a pretty incredible journey. I spent a lot of time like listening to Bob Rock interviews and, you know, just really understanding where it's coming from. And as you mentioned, JD, like, you know, I understand the divisiveness and whatnot, but oh my gosh, I, I was already in love when I listened to it the first couple of times at this point, you know, I'm, I'm firm in my, my commitment to, to in Gord, we trust, you know, And to see that...[11:17] That friendship. I mean, he, he, he makes the statement. We were like two teenagers that were in the studio, just making music together. And, um, you know, to hear how the whole process went and I know we'll get into it and everybody, you know, obviously we'll provide their input. Um, I fell in love with it even more, you know, and, and the variety on this, this album i mean guys we got reggae we got we got west coast punk we got 70s glam we got 80s synth pop we've got you know it it just every even within certain songs you'll have a jump from one friggin genre to another and then you you know you start looking at all the studios they recorded in, the process that it took, the number of years, the people that are involved.[12:13] And especially after we've discussed with the last three albums, like it was just fun to, I felt like, I felt like I got a warm hug from Gord. I really did. Just like, I just was all that, that we went through. It was like, Hey, this is just when it's fun. And this is, this This is for you, music lovers. That's what I felt. That's what I felt. I love that. I haven't watched much with Bob Rock, but I did read that one of the reasons why it took until 2023 to rear its head was because it was too painful for him to, like, he was really emotional following the death of Gordani in 2017. Absolutely. Because they had gotten lungs. Yeah. They had become such close friends and, you know, they reference, you know.[13:09] Uh, Gord flew out to talk about world container and they'd figured that out in 15 minutes. And then they spent the rest, the rest of the conversation talking about being dads, being Canadians, being hockey lovers. And, and then that just continued. And I think those guys, you know, with the level that they were at, I think they kind of found it was a peer to peer relationship.[13:32] And I really felt like they found refuge in each other. And then I think they sought it out because it was a long relationship. I mean, was it 06 when World Container was being made or coming out? Up until the very end. And that's when they first met is when he came out, or at least per what I had listened to. You know, they flew out to Maui, to his studio in Maui, Gord did, and then, you know, like I said, Discuss World Container. And then they didn't really do much as it was described until after the second album, We Are The Same, that they did. And then that's when the, you know, that relationship in the music for Luster Parfait started. So yeah, I mean, I recommend everyone to check into this. And Bob rock doesn't seem like, you know, like you.[14:25] You just, he didn't, didn't do a lot of, I mean, of course he gets on the documentaries, he gets a lot of airtime and whatnot, but beyond that, you know, there's not a ton, I guess, but the stuff specific to this is well worth, you can just hear the genuineness all these years after, like last year was a lot of the interviews that were going on and he's still breaking up. Like you're still oh yeah um and he's just he's like you go bob rock and you like you think the guy's flying you know coming in on the learjet all the time and he's like most of these interviews he's like just got done feeding his horses craig what was your first experience like i was also traveling uh down to seattle for a ball game and i was on on the amtrak train taking my notes and i I actually wrote, I'm going to read this and don't get mad at me. But I said, hate to be negative on this last album, but there's a lot to pick apart.[15:25] Two days ago, we were supposed to record this episode, and we had to postpone. And that evening, at 10.30 at night, I texted you guys a photo. A package arrived, and the CD was dropped off by Amazon. So I got the CD, and I started looking at the lyrics. And then the next day, I popped it in the car. And it's been in there for a couple days now, and I've been listening to it quite a lot. And my opinion has totally changed. Changed it's like some of this and i think it's what you said jd it's it's a very long album and so some of my favorite songs come at the end and what i what i've been doing is hitting shuffle and that's when it really started to um pick up for me is when i started listening on shuffle before getting the cd that i liked hearing just random songs come on and then and i thought it it was a problem with the sequencing at first but then i realized it's probably more because when the album came out i did listen a couple times when it first came out but i think i only got through the first four songs and so now i'm getting to know and love these later songs and then when i got the cd it just all kind of started working for me and i'm like wow some of the things that i was going to be nitpicking on today's episode i think i've I've grown to appreciate Justin, my man. Yeah.[16:51] Talk to me about your relationship with this release and has it changed since your first listen? So I pre-ordered this last year and yeah, this, this CD was in heavy rotation for me until, um, until you asked us to be part of the podcast. So I've been cold Turkey since January or whenever it was and waiting for for this week to get back into it. Yeah. I love this album, and I wish that Gord had done a Broadway show.[17:27] Um, could you imagine after hearing how strong his vocal is? Um, and especially during this time period. And it's funny, Craig, that you mentioned that you did not like this album. And then today you changed your mind. I took a break from this cause I've been over listening and I went back to the grand bounce and I love that freaking album as of today. And everybody knows I did not love that album when we were doing the podcast. Yay![18:00] Yeah. I love this news. It grew on me big time today. And Justin, one of the interviews that I watched, they actually said that the lyrics were almost like a screenplay on Luster Parfait and that there is a movie inside this album. It's just no one has brought it forth. So I like that. Broadway play. Movie i think i saw some of the same interviews you did um the one with uh terry mulligan was i actually listened to it a few times um to pick that apart but um yeah it would be it would be fantastic if that film was to get made or some sort of video component to this um but you know this was at gourd's you got to remember this the vocals recorded a decade ago and this was at gourd's busiest period and i would say his strongest period um vocally um and seems that way but you know bob also said in the in the interviews that he intentionally um potted gourd's mic up so that it was more on the forefront you know with the hip gourd's voice was an instrument um with this album it is the show and that absolutely rings true and you know jd the the songs that you mentioned just...[19:24] Kick my ass every time i hear it and i've heard them i've heard them 50 times at this point you know without exaggerating um yeah it's it's a very cool album a very confusing album uh stylistically um and it's very long but i can palette that um and i had the same issues craig um with stopping and starting and you hear you've you know you've heard the first six songs on this album probably twice as many times as the final seven or eight um and it's just it takes a commitment to get through it um and every song is long in addition to them there being so many of them um you know there's several songs that are five or six minutes um yeah seven and a half right it's for the moment is a wild place and i'm really interested in in your guys's uh mvp, yeah tracks for this like more than any other album we've done yeah because i think it's going to be all over the place i i've got mine and i i think this was like the easiest choice i've had to make and this is the first time i don't i quite literally don't have an mvp i'm i'm pulling the trigger when we talk every other album first three listens i had it down i mean i'm usually the first one to chime up i i can't i i just haven't been able to pick one it's strange that that it's It's opposite.[20:48] Should we try and untangle this web that Justin just spoke of, this mystery of a record, and go track by track? We start with, Greyboy says.[20:59] Music.[24:42] I mean, from the first note, it's like, what the hell are we listening to? And in the best way, you know, I just had no idea that this is where we were going. You know, and I love World Container and I love We Are The Same. And we all know everything else that Bob Rock has done. And this is not any of those things. It's bizarrely different. Um, and who the hell is gray boy, right? Like I've spent a year now trying to figure that out. And I thought I'd read something that it was a DJ. Um, yeah, I read that too. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but there's a DJ out of San Diego, uh, named gray boy. Um, sort of like an acid jazz DJ I read and it could be him he's referencing, but I'm not sure if that's no idea. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's just a, a total, it's a mind fuck right from the beginning. And, and I was really like, okay, I'm turning this up. Um, you know, I remember listening to it in my car, um, the first time that I, that I put it on. However, I wanted to ask, um, JD and Craig, if, if you guys had any of this, um, on air in Canada, did, were any of these songs played on terrestrial radio? Yeah.[26:05] I don't recall hearing it on the radio i don't listen to a lot of uh local radio i'm usually, you know serious yeah xm listener but um but no i didn't hear it i did see the video though and so this song is a song i heard right away when it came out because of the the video which uh if you've seen it it has um some of the guys from offspring dexter nude and yeah and And when I look at the track listing, they don't actually, they don't play on the track. So they were just kind of there for the video and having fun filming the video. And Bob Rock's got James Hetfield's ESP that he's playing in it. And so it's a pretty cool video.[26:49] Did you guys recognize the drummer? I did, yeah. So Abe- Abe Laborio Jr. That's Paul McCartney's drummer. Yeah, really quick connection. When I was in my original band back in the 90s, we had a drummer who filled in for us fairly often when we were down a drummer. And he was roommates at Berklee with Abe. Really? And I didn't meet Abe, But one time he was in town for either sting or McCartney and our singer slash, you know, front front man got to jam with Abe and he came back and told me that he has never felt anything like it being in the room with him. He said when the, when the kick drum hit one, it was unlike anything he's ever experienced as a musician. So it was just that tight. And you can hear that tightness in his playing. Yeah. I mean, you don't get picked up as Paul McCartney's drummer, unless you know what the F you're doing. 20 years.[28:17] Video and, and, And he even plays and he's like, he's a beast of a man, right? He's, he's, he's, he's a big guy, but he's just sweet. I've had opportunity. There's a show called ma'am national associate music merchants. If you're a musician, you should know about it. It's every year in Anaheim. So it's pretty close. So I've been going for years and years and he's there quite a bit. And so, you know, had few little interactions and he's just, yeah, he's a, he's a sweetheart just, and, and an incredible musician. Oh, wow. Incredible musician. Well, they did it weird, right? Because they released Lester Parfait, and then they released a three-song EP, or maybe that was the time they released Lester Parfait. And then they released a six-song EP. And it had The Moment is a Wild Place, Camaro, Lester Parfait, Grey Boy Says, I think. So they did that But I'm not sure about, I'm not sure whether Lester Parfait Was considered the lead single or not Hold on I have it open here So that's why I asked you guys If you'd heard it on the air because Again the station that I talk about all the time Here WBQX played Lester Parfait Over and over last year Wow And I think that I heard Grey Boy Says as well On the radio.[29:45] Damn So we were talking earlier about sequencing. I believe it was Craig that was talking about it. So we'll start with him here because when I first heard the next track, which is the Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk, I remember thinking, what the fuck kind of sequencing is this? We go from, you know, this crazy rock song to like a kid's song. And then all of a sudden that chorus hits and you're just like, wow. I would love to be next to a fucking stack listening to that, feeling my pant legs whistle in the wind. Fucking right. That would be just fantastic. Craig, what do you think of The Raven and the Red-Tailed Hawk? I really love this song. I think there's a lot of things that really stuck out. The lyrics were great. The chorus, like you mentioned, is powerful. There's the nod to the east wind, I think, in the lyrics of the chorus.[30:47] And it's just a strongly written song. There's a very unique melody. And there's a really cool descending tremolo guitar that I thought was effective. And some nice piano. piano there's a really wild synth solo which was really cool followed by an acoustic guitar solo which you know to to the opposite of what i said last song i loved i thought bob rock killed that solo an acoustic guitar solo is very hard to pull yes agreed to make it sound you have to be spot on and not only does the tone of the guitar have to be good but you have to have the feel.[31:28] And because you hear every slide you hear every nuance you're every bend you hear every chord configuration if you're if you're throwing that in so i agree 100 craig yeah you have to be kyle gas and when you're playing a playing an acoustic soloing you don't have that sustain when you're bending a note so it's just a so someone who tries to play you know just take electric solo and played on acoustic it's not going to sound the same so i thought he did a great job of crafting a solo that worked um there was some really cool like compositional tricks with you know like you know leading tones passing tones and just lots of lots of things to love in this um and also one quick thing at the end the vocal jumps up an octave going into that last chorus just a great great trick yeah and yeah the lyrics i just you know pulled out the lyric booklet two days ago and really wild stuff what do you think justin yeah it's the same exactly the same it's a kid's song and then it's not right um and it's the the storytelling and the.[32:40] You know i can see that helmet the imagery that he tells the story um and one of these interviews um um, that Gord had done, um, which nobody knew it at the time, but it was during these sessions.[32:58] Um, he had mentioned that Bob had asked him to speak more clearly. Don't be so vague with your lyrics. Tell, tell a story that people can understand without having to pull out an encyclopedia and boy, you got it right in this one. Um, you know, this is, it's very cut and dried. Um, it's, it's nothing to figure out. I, I just love how, how clear and concise it is. And some days I just can't do it, you know? Um.[33:28] I think we've all had that. Fuck yeah. Kirk, what do you think? Well, being the elder of the group and someone who really grew up in the 80s, I heard this song. I was joking before when we first started talking on, you can't see me, folks, but I'm doing the 80s dance. When I heard that song the first time, I got that new wave post. I just felt like a kid again in high school. And when you'd hear those, we were in the heart of new wave. It was like true post-punk, like Sex Pistols, late 70s, early 80s, punk, post-punk, where it's now you're getting the precursors to, you know, what becomes Green Day and Blink-182 and everything. But there's, I mean, fuck, there's five keyboards parts on this song, five separate keyboard, you know, credits listed and you can hear it. Um, so, you know, I would say, I know I'd mentioned at the beginning, like I couldn't pick an MVP. This was one that just always stood out. I wouldn't again say MVP, but loved it. It made me feel good every time I listened to it. And then Kirk's going to roll into his second criticism of the entire, uh, series. And I believe it was, is it Tim? I was just going to say, who are you, Tim?[34:47] Like i don't necessarily have an issue with fade outs but i struggled with the fade out on this one i really did i i was like i don't come on just like end it it's a long fade out too it's a long very long fade out very long fade out so um so you know i uh i i again if you guys know i really don't care but odds it's it's all good matthew good he was also strippers union so you know yeah he did the drums on that he was also like the house drummer for the kids in the hall so oh yeah yeah so like how cool is that that you got you go from paul mccartney's drummer to you know brian adams matthew good all the stuff that that pat did so um yeah uh great song uh just uh really helping the love affair uh with the album and uh you know outside of the i could have done without the fade out um friggin loved.[35:56] It friggin loved it it's a 20 second fade out though like it's it's long it's much sort of it's much i'm usually okay with it but this was you know the one thing though the reason why i brought it up is because i kept having to look at my phone going did my phone die um because i'm like the song was the next song wasn't coming he's got late and i couldn't tell if it was going out or if it was the intro but it's yeah it's a 20 second long outro insane justin how about you buddy yeah i i knew somebody was going to mention the fade out. I didn't hate it because the song is kind of long and it's like, alright, it kind of feels appropriate.[36:38] But yeah, no, I just love the song and I don't know, how many times are you going to say the sonic sounds like nothing else you know and i i understand you know he really wasn't necessarily involved in much of the the writing of the parts, um but i don't know it's just so freaking cool yeah it is it's very cool, so luster parfait what do you think of that track that's the one song that my daughter has grabbed a hold of because of the hey hey hey um you know i don't i don't know what the song is about but i picture it as gourd's love letter to music um and you know performing live we gather in the dark um you know we can only connect um that's that may be the only way that some people connect that's how we all connected right is through music and specifically gourd's music um i just this this uh this song you can't help but feel good listening to um it's such a fun freaking song and there's horns and there's that little you know half step.[37:58] Kind of thing in the chorus and it's it's really really interesting and it's very fun and it's funny almost um just the the energy that that gourd has and that the entire i want to say band but you know the people playing in the song it just sounds like every i can picture every single person in there playing with a smile on their face you know and and just enjoying the shit out of this whole process it's a luster parfait baby would you dig into the yeah because it starts off with horns and you we haven't had horns per se um on i mean i guess is this what it sounded with davis manning like i i i'll put my cards out there and i haven't heard a lot of it so i don't really know what the hip sounded like with him, but like you've got a full on sack. So what's that, Justin? Not like this. Davis Manning did not sound like this.[39:02] Ah no he sounded like uh and i he sounded like an 80s you know bar band saxophonist that's because that's exactly what it was who can it be now i'm in at work right but the horns just hit you right up front um and uh the the sax solo like in the middle and then And, you know, a really cool, as we talked about, you know, it's got a hard ending, which is great. But in the end, that little vamp with the B3 and the piano, like Justin said, the music all around, you just, you can't listen to it and not smile and not feel like that was the energy when it was being recorded.[39:51] So the one note that I wrote here too that I think is really cool. Um and it kind of speaks to what you guys were saying is like a like a a letter to music but he described the bridge bob did uh as being essentially the sensational alex harvey band and if you don't know anything about the sensational alex harvey band just look it up just youtube it and i'll leave that there um you know i guess i'll call it like the canadian david Bowie during the Ziggy Stardust years is, is probably a good way to describe it. So, um, but how cool is that? That like throwing that right in, right in after you get these two rockers and now he's going glam and, um, yeah, this just brilliant, uh, brilliant, brilliant, uh, title track song.[40:47] I really liked the, speaking of the bridge, the sort of chromatics and the bridge. And then at the very end, it blends into the final chorus.[40:59] So, you know, luster parfait, hey, hey, which I thought was very cool. Um yeah and speaking of the lyrics at the at the start it says isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge and i looked up a scene from the deluge because it was capitalized and i found a painting called scene from a deluge from 1806, and it's a pretty wild painting i'll just read the description really quickly the man perched on a rock hangs from a from a tree that is beginning to break he tries to pull up his wife and two children all while supporting on his back an old man who carries a purse in his hand the sky is streaked with lightning like justin right now and a cadaver floats in the agitated water it's a pretty i'll just hold my screen it's pretty wild um anyways uh pretty wild so i'm not sure what he's getting at but uh but yeah definitely what's the lyric yeah it's the it's the intro isn't it funny how little we can do how much we are like a scene from the deluge, which as you describe it, it was pretty, uh, pretty stark. Yeah. Like, yeah.[42:26] Yeah. Like he's hanging on to like his wife and two kids with one arm, like by her one arm. So I guess there's not too much he can do.[42:35] Other quick notes. I just want to mention the horns. So the horns, the saxophone is played by Tom Keenleyside, who is a local Vancouver-based saxophone flautist. And he has been all over. He has played with so many different artists. and actually the very first cassette i ever bought back in grade seven i think i just finished grade seven and i was in the kitchen i can still i remember exactly where i was and on the radio came, rag doll by aerosmith 1987 and i was drawn in by the horns because i i'm i started playing saxophone in grade six so i was drawn in by that and steve tyler's voice and that song grabbed me right away I took my money from my piggy bank and I bought a Walkman and a cassette tape you know the next day and that's really where my journey with rock music started and so Bob Rock was the engineer on that album Permanent Vacation and Tom Cunley side played the saxophone so I thought there's a cool kind of full circle for for me personally um you know seeing that he was the one And because as soon as I heard horns, I knew it was him. Listen, I don't know where you would put a showcase track on a record from a sequencing standpoint.[44:02] Music.[50:44] The vocals uh that are going on in this um you got and then going back to bob and all the guitars like you've got acoustic guitars you got two lead guitars you've got what sounds almost like what i know as like a slack hawaiian slack guitar it sounds like a pedal steel but there's nothing in the liner the the the pedal steel song is not this song um it's got that kind of a you know of acoustic and slide in the beginning and and then you've got this the chorus that just uh you know it's uh it it it's like a dump truck of love coming down with this massive gourd here i am and and you understand why many people call it their favorite and uh a song that is seven minutes in 26 seconds and sounds like it's maybe a couple minutes so when you know that a song that's that long can just like you get lost in and you don't even think that it's that long you know you know it's it's obviously very very well written craig what were your thoughts i thought the.[52:02] Yeah the chorus was was what made it and the moment is a wild place reminded me of you know like a theme throughout his work about living in the moment where whether it's the dance and its disappearance or never ending ending present and i'm sure there are many others i know we've discussed them on this podcast so that was really really a great tie-in um the hawaiian guitar i loved as well at the start and you know you have to think that it is bob rock playing that so it you know he lives in maui much of you know much of the year from what i've heard and And, you know, he's soaking up all that Island music and, and yeah, my only other real note was, um, like a couple of quick things. Sean Nelson is the drummer on this track and the last one who I had to look up and he's actually, um.[52:54] Not someone who's played on a ton of high profile albums or anything. He's a drum instructor out of, I believe, San Francisco, I read. And, you know, very cool that he had that opportunity to work on this album. And one last thing, the piano flourishes at the end, reminded me of Dr. P from the country of miracles, which was very cool. Nice callback. Wow. Yeah. That's a great. Yeah. Justin, how about you? The moment is a wild place. Well, you know, I keep referencing my love of Prague and this sounds like a pink board. I can see that.[53:38] I love that it's long. I love that it's got, they use all 88 keys. You know, from low to high, it's It's really just a beautiful song, and the lyrics remind me of Secret Path. Heal. I don't know. There's definitely some tie-ins in my brain to Channing and his story. I don't believe that. Wow. Because this was probably written before secret path was even in chords around the same time around the same time it was birthed.[54:24] Yeah. But you know, I just, yeah, I think this is one of the songs that Bob said that Gordon heard completed before he passed.[54:36] Oh, that's nice to hear. Yeah. Uh, and, but Jesus Christ, the range that this guy has, right? Like, uh, I don't know. It, it, I fall apart whenever I hear the song. It's it's in in the best of ways you hear this song and it's almost like has he not been trying all these years you know because he's like he's got this in his fucking back pocket holy shit you have this in your back pocket and you're 50 years old time gourd god the other thing that i think is is uh something i just want to comment on really quickly is somebody who deals with mental wellness and is uh working on his mental health i look at this song almost the same way i look at the darkest one in that it's got this sort of clever twist right it's like the wild are strong, and the strong are the darkest ones and you're the darkest one so it's like starts out as almost this great compliment but it turns into something else and in this song it's like hey everybody you got to be in the moment you got to be in the moment but sometimes the moment is a wild fucking place that you don't want to be in so i'm going to put a bow in this jd and you guys.[56:04] So yeah i had mentioned earlier i was you know on the rooftop in madrid and i'm listening to the I'm listening to the Kevin Drew Niles interview, and you'd put this song in, sorry, Inside Baseball.[56:23] This song comes on, and it turns midnight in Madrid, and frigging fireworks start going off everywhere around the city. And I don't know if it was the transition from June to July. I don't know if it was the Spain had just won their Euro cup game earlier in the day, or if it was just, you know.[56:52] Tuesday in Spain at midnight, we like to put off fireworks, but I'm, I'm, you know, up there. Like I said, I've had a few glasses. I'm feeling wonderful. I'm jet lagged. I'm listening to that brilliant, brilliant, brilliant interview. The song comes on and fireworks start shooting off quite literally in the middle of it. So the moment is a wild place. Yeah, sure fucking is. Boy. Well, let's move to track five and something more. Craig, how do you feel something more lives up to its role as a follow-up song for The Moment is a Wild Place? This is a tour de force song and a showcase piece. Is this the right sequencing order? I'm just curious what you think. Yeah, that's a good question. I'll need to think about that some more, but I do think the song was quite good. It reminded me, vocally reminded me of like earlier Gord.[57:58] And it's the first song on Lester Parfait that did sound like a previous version of Gord. The horns are great, which is what makes it sound so it doesn't just sound like a copy of something that he did earlier. There were some great dissonant guitar shots that were very cool and a little horn part. And of course, we have to shout out the drummer on this song because it is none other than Johnny Faye, who makes an appearance a number of times on this album. And you can tell. He just has such a great... He's playing on an album with Pat Stewart, with Abe, and he fits right in there because he's just such a musical player.[58:46] He has such a great tone to his drums always, and it was just a treat to hear him again. He's also listed as backing vocals. I think that's on a later track. I think track number 11, I think, for some reason. Oh, okay. All right. Right. But speaking of vocals, I have in my notes that Johnny Faye said this was Gord's best vocal ever recorded, hip or otherwise. I've never heard – I've been listening to him since 1989, and I've never heard anything like this. Right, right. There's a lot of strong, strong Gord vocals. And he's also got a very powerful voice. We know that because watching a special video of his later performances where he's more guttural and screaming but holding the microphone down at his belly button. And you can still hear just how powerful his voice is. That's really wild that Johnny Faye would say that. This is the first one that, at least for the album version.[59:58] This song is actually towards the end. So kind of wild. Or at least from a lyrical standpoint, it goes something more in the field, and then there goes the sun. So it's one of the last three songs on the album. you've got an error your album's on that skirt my album is a wild place i'm not i'm not even lying guys i'm not lying look at it right there it's third from the end odd odd that that you know as we talk about the sequencing that's the listed you know outside of the comment from johnny i just you know gothic synths driving drums bright horns really amazing solo um uh just I like it actually in the spot that we're talking about it from a sequencing standpoint, as opposed to towards the end. Because it is one of those that, I guess they're all in the MVP category opportunity, but this to me might have been in the upper quarter of MVP opportunities.[1:01:04] What do you think, Justin? um i spent a fair amount of time on the lyrics on this one and trying to there's a lot of stuff that's in quotes um and i tried to figure out what he was referencing by a lot of stuff and the only thing this is the silliest thing that i think could have come out of this was the cool hand of a girl all i found for that was a mexican restaurant in toronto jd have you been there it's It's called The Cool Hand of a Girl.[1:01:39] Hand of a Girl. That's the only thing that I found on the internet with those words in hand. No, I've not heard of that restaurant. No. And I did some research on the restaurant, and it's been open since before this was recorded. So was he talking about a Mexican restaurant? It's an MO, man.[1:01:59] Yeah um i i did love the uh the line i legalize criminality and criminalize dissent i love that because i american who is fucking terrified right now and um that's where i live is where criminality is legal and dissent is criminal uh quite fucking literally, um i don't know the um you know you guys had referenced that this is this is sort of old gourd and the thing that really stuck out for me because i felt the same way it was yeah he said fuck you in this song and this album to that point feels too clean to have those lyrics, to have him say that. And the way that he says it is really live-gored, you know, the ranting voice, almost. He drags the F out in that word.[1:03:09] I like this song. It's not my favorite. I don't know why it's not my favorite i don't know why it's not not my favorite but um yeah this song is is fine and it the the as far as the sequencing goes you know the moment is a wild place is such a deep valley um that this just gets us right back up in the air and and we're on to our next stop and And, um, I, I liked the energy of it, um, to follow, um, yeah, in a wild place. But, um, other than that, I don't know. I think it's got another showcase vocal, uh, toward the end, the latter third of the song when he goes up high. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if you guys, uh, like, I'm not going to try and sing it, but do you know the part I'm talking about where he goes up very high? Yeah. Again, that's not something we've heard from him before. Him going into a place like that.[1:04:15] I could see the classic Gord sweat in this song. He worked hard in this one. And you know what? Moving on to Camaro, I sort of get a sweaty kind of vibe from this one, too. What do you think about this one, Justin? My first thought was, is Gord a secret car guy? like that would be amazing for you oh, No, I mean, this, this is, uh, this is, you know, you're in high school and this is the first car you can afford. Um, this is not a nice Camaro, by the way, the, I had, this is a, this is a 72 that nobody wanted and I found it for 400 bucks in the classifieds and let's go, you know, um, uh, I don't know. It's got no floor on the passenger side but everything else is cool you can see the lines on the road through the friggin' drin you can Barney Rubble it, it's a piece of shit but it's my car, it's my wheels and I love it, I actually went back and listened to other Camaro related songs.[1:05:33] Kings of Leon and Dead Milkmen Bitchin' Camaro You know, just, just, I went back to that for some reason. I don't know. It was, it was cool to just kind of revisit that. Bitching Camaro. Did you see Justin on this particular song and this actually brings up a question for me. The song is Bob said was written because that's his wife's favorite car was a Camaro and then he gave it to Gord and Gord was like, I don't want to write about a Camaro. I'm going to write about a girl named Camaro. So the lyrics are about a girl named Camaro but the title Camaro came from bob's um and this is again this is just what bob mentioned about it um his wife's favorite car so apologies yeah and isn't that crazy isn't that totally crazy and and.[1:06:36] Yeah. You know, a great song. Um, I have, uh, I have like talking heads listed as kind of a vibe in, in, in a lot of them actually have a real, you know, kind of eccentric talking heads, kind of odd jazzed influence horns, um, as well. So, yeah, but anyway, love that. It's a girl named Camaro. Great. I love the line of the chorus, Camaro, the name means just what you think the car can do, go. Just the way he phrases it is just very odd. Until I read it, I didn't realize what he was trying to say at the end.[1:07:16] And yeah, just very cool phrasing. it reminded me of um i couldn't get the simpsons out of my head the canyonero canyonero, but that's just where my mind went but my also my dad had he's currently rebuilding a uh a 1980 camaro in silver so i'm uh i actually just texted him to see if he could text me a picture of it but he's uh he's a car guy and yeah he's working on one as we speak so So it did bring back a memory that I had repressed from high school where I got a ride with a buddy's sister's boyfriend who had a Trans Am, you know, like a Burt Reynolds Smokey and the Bandit vintage. And we went 140 miles an hour on the way home. That's the only time I was certain that I was going to die was in the backseat of that car. And it's a Trans Am, not a Camaro, but same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Night.[1:08:15] Music.[1:12:50] The North Shore is the first track on the record to me that sounds like vintage hip. It could be at home on Day for Night, a different production version of it could have been on Fully Completely, maybe even Hen House. It's of that sort of vintage. Am I totally crazy, or am I barking up the right tree, Kurt? Yeah i mean i have i have written uh alt rock style um kind of ballad so you know that's i think that hip would fall into that that uh realm but the song sounded big to me it got big you know it starts off with that kind of acoustic piano in intro and um and and the cool thing like most scored lyrics is like is he talking about the north shore of maui is he talking about the north shore of you know lake ontario everyone because like everyone kind of has a north shore, and um i i uh i i i just appreciate again the his ability to um.[1:14:05] Keep you guessing and keep us talking for many more episodes of podcasts to dissect Accord's lyrics. Yeah. And I recall seeing an interview with Bob Rock where he kind of mentioned the same thing. He talked about the North shore in Maui. There's a North shore in Vancouver where, you know, Bob Rock would, would know about the North shore that I actually spent the first four years of my life on the North shore in North Vancouver. And, um, I'm I'm thinking he's probably talking about the lake only because he mentions, I think it swallows, which there wouldn't be, I don't think in Maui on the North shore there. It's much too windy. There's little sparrows, I think, but I could be wrong.[1:14:46] But, but yeah, it's meant to be for wherever your North shore is. And it really is a great song. It could be, could have been a radio hit is that, that type of song I did. This is one of those songs that earlier on I had a critique about the chorus being too generic. So the chord structure is one we've heard a million times. But then the more I listened to it, I started thinking, well, there's a reason this chord structure has been used a million times. It's powerful. And when Gord is added to this mix, it does sound original. And it sounds great. I really love the harmonies at the end in the guitar. There's some sort of like Boston seventies via seventies, like guitar rock vibe on the, on the harmonies, which I dug or like, or like almost like a thin Lizzie or something. So yeah, solid song all around.[1:15:39] Justin, your thoughts. Yeah. I actually, um, view this as a followup to the last recluse. Um, like, yep. That's all that to me lyrically. Um, I also went back to Summer's Killing Us from In Between Evolution, because I really do love the lyrics about one more breeze and summer's complete. And then at the end, he goes back to summer lowers its flag now. And obviously the word is summer. And so that is my tie in. But, you know, the the uptempo of summer is killing us and summer exists at the fair. Right you know like this is yeah summer kicks ass and then this is the end of it like we're going back to school now and uh the leaves are falling off of the trees and you know it just um i also really loved the line we occurred to each other 48 hours a day how fucking amazing is that line um when you're in love holy hell that's that's all you think about and um.[1:16:52] Fingers and toes 40 things we share you know uh yeah or fireworks um yeah believing in the country of me and you that's what it was yeah yeah yeah i agree with the last recluse reference though and the way he sings it is actually very similar to we held hands between our bikes it's very and if you've seen the video for the last recluse as well they actually show that with you know these two kids with their yeah well um track number eight is this nowhere kirk this song like i even have i told you about my nights at the ihop i would go after work here over the last couple days and and it's the right next to the hotel and it's simple and so i wrote this on a little napkin holder and my note says it's the same phrasing as one from.[1:17:42] You too i'm sure you guys all that's right yes yeah so and then all of a sudden what's that justin reference to it too midway through the song oh yeah it it's not getting better like he's bull right he is ripping this song he's admitting yep that's a great pick up justin yeah good friend right and then you have one more coffee in the bill which is gonna come up later as one of the lyrics and the backing that the chorus just boom shade shade of all now is that someone that you guys were familiar with ahead of this because I didn't know anything about her until I did the research Justin yeah No, Craig has a story. So Che, Amy Dorval is someone I had to look up because I heard the vocals on this song and I was so blown away by the backing vocals that I had to look her up. And she's from here. She's from Vancouver.[1:18:49] And I think she may be based out of Toronto now. I'm not quite sure. She has a couple of dates coming up in Portland and Seattle, I believe, but nothing here. So I was hoping to go check her out. But yeah, it turns out she worked with Devin Townsend on a project called Casualties of Cool. And so I went onto YouTube and looked that up. And it's very, very cool. Kind of like ambient stuff with just beautiful vocals. And yeah, Devin Townsend is a local musician who, yeah, I remember playing back in 95, sharing a bill with him when he played in a band called Strapping Young Lad. And now he's like a, you know, worldwide world, you know, renowned, uh, musician. And, uh, yeah, we have a, yeah, we have a bit of a band connection with him too. That I won't get into on, on air, but yeah. I want to love you.[1:19:45] That's so cool and then just my last two things on this song um, bob wrote five songs on her solo album and i don't know that he helped with the production he may have been the producer on it but he he wrote five songs with her very in a similar style that um he did with gourd but this is the part that gutted me gourd didn't hear the vocal, It was added after he passed.[1:20:43] I mean you know there's so many haters out there you know he the guy produced the the biggest album of the 90s like the the biggest decade for music um you know i'm pretty sure sales wise yeah i'm pretty sure the 90s as far as like you know you know actual physical product i gotta say this about bob he gives two fucks yep and it's just good for good for him to work with two he just he's living in maui with his wife and his horses and spending time with his kids and you know try you know yeah oh yeah i got to deal with this bon jovi album or this you know offspring album whatever else and then i'm gonna go and wake up and pick one of my 700 guitars and he's got he's got like just he's got he's got music for days but he doesn't sing so i mean he does a little backup vocals or whatever else but i love that about because you know i'm kind of teetering on this i love the bob rock hip albums and of course i am loving this album and and i appreciate the other stuff that i mean metallica that you know that i think that especially if you're a musician like i think i know every main riff from the black album i can't play it all but i know all the riffs of you know sandman and and um and i loved watching that documentary you know almost swore out the VHS. So I'm telling you how old I am again.[1:22:08] Yeah. Another thing about that song, I love the part after the chorus. There's that melody, the da-na, da-na, just at first it kind of throws you, but it's a really great choice.[1:22:20] And I'm going to give a little critique here. This guitar solo kind of kills me. It, it, it's just so generic and kind of boring. And actually now that you bring up the videotape of the, the Metallica, I think it's called day in the life of, I used to have a video VHS copy of that too. And there's a, there's a time on that when he's giving Kirk Hammett such a hard time about the solo. I think it was the unforgiven maybe. And he's just like, no, do it again. Do it. Gotta do your homework. Gotta do your homework. You don't do your fucking homework. So I was picturing like Kirk Hammett being in there, like giving him a hard, like hard time. And, you know, he needed, he needed Bob rock and needed a Bob rock on this song. I think.[1:23:07] Well, again, I think it comes, it comes from the fact though, too, that we've been listening to, you know, these bands and, and these records that have such a feel to them, you know, a cohesive feel. Feel and this record doesn't have that same sort of cohesive feel it's it's all over the place right 14 songs 14 songs that's in in in all the things you read he he gave him 14 songs and he got 14 songs back there was no added there was no cut it was 14 14 straight across and and at no point did i see anything that said like okay this this track was written in 1985 this track was It was written in 2010. It just was part of his cadre of music that he's had lying around. And again, I'd really be interested to know if the titles are Bob's or Gord's. I'd be really interested to know. I guess ultimately it would have come down to Bob in the end. But I'm sure he would have respected it. I think Gord, in their discussions, they would have had. I'm sure. But you're right. I mean, they are co-producers.[1:24:23] Co-writers of the of the record yeah craig i'll put a bow on your statement this was sorry i'm i'm getting a little too flowery with the bob rock quotes and everything else but his statement was budget wise i was the only guitar player available, so there's your answer to the solo okay okay sorry bob i i really i should say i i'm a bob rock fan i love both of the hip albums he did and and like i already mentioned my permanent vacation story and also sonic temple was a big one for me when i was young and that was his yeah me and my buddy found that cassette tape on the side of the road by my dad's work someone had thrown it out the window or something and we found it no no case just the tape and took that home and And yeah, so I'm a big, big Bob rock fan. So sorry, Justin. Yeah. I mean, apart from the backing vocals, I don't love this song. Um, and I think it's kind of the reasons why you guys said it's just not something musically doesn't do it for me. Um, and that's no disrespect to anybody, but the, you know, the background vocals are just so freaking stellar that it's it props the song up probably higher than it should rank for me.[1:25:48] Um yeah and i really you know i didn't care for the youtube the youtube riff and and it just it's just strange right it pulls you out it almost pulls you out of the song because you're like thrust into another song but like i said i do i do appreciate that gourd references the u2 song yes and says it's not getting better that's very cool okay all right well then we know what we're doing at least yeah good on him for for recognizing that and i'm guessing it was just an accident then he he either he noticed it or someone else pointed it out and then yeah know, I'll just add a lyric in here and it's all good. I think it's better than one personally. The next song is To Catch the Truth. Kurt, we'll start with you. Yeah, man. So here we go. We got a ska song, a frigging ska song, in my opinion. No doubt, Mighty Mighty Boston's, whatever your flavor is. But.[1:26:51] I love ska. I love ska. My wife loves ska and we grew up in Orange County. I used to go see No Doubt, play at colleges and play at local bars and crap like that.[1:27:07] And Mighty Mighty Boston is probably the – not even probably, by far the loudest concert I've ever been to, leaps and bounds. But gorge's doing a ska tune um west coast punk was uh was mentioned in a couple of the reviews that i saw vancouver's scene dug in the slugs um it's just a fun great song you know the beauty of ska at least from my standpoint so um loved it absolutely loved the tune jay dog yeah i uh remember very fondly uh watching real big fish in a very small room and um river city rebels were a big ska band horn band here in burlington and i used to you know sneak into shows underage and and love it um it's a fun song it's just fun and um gourd packs a lot into this song um it's i don't really have any any critiques yay or nay other than man i remember being 15 16 years old and going to these shows and having a hell of a good time when i first heard this song the the amount of compression bothered me it's just like.[1:28:31] You know squished and also i found it strange i was thinking in the realm of like goldfinger or something like that and in what in one channel you've got the guitar the other side you've got the piano and i found the way the piano was so clean was a bit bothers bothersome at first, and i had a note i wish it was almost like rag timed up a bit like or you know a bit like maybe even a bit out of tune or just something to give it a little bit of personality that would be my one see this is the song that i felt was like the the mouth i did yeah i think it was the piano a melody but what i mean is is the actual sound yeah no but not the sound i i hear what you're saying craig it was too clean it needed to be like someone had a mic in the room of a saloon with some out of tune piano and then that would have been the that would have been the flavor that would have been the added that well because i like my note west coast punk like you don't tune up when you're playing punk songs you play what's on the friggin guitar that's exactly what So I hear that. I think that's a very fair, very fair criticism.[1:29:37] After listening to it on the CD last night, though, I found that it wouldn't have worked if it was done as a more sort of raw punk or like, if it wasn't compressed in that way, the vocals would not have popped in the same way. And so I think it was probably the right choice in hindsight. But like I said, if it could be just dirtied up a bit in some way, I think I would have enjoyed it a little bit more. I did like the beginning. It's kind of like a strange introduction. There's also those hard stops at the end. What's real? What's fake? There's not a dirty song on this record. You know, this record is not, it's not got, it is like that Camaro. Somebody's out polishing it with a shammy. It's pristine and clean. Let me howl.[1:30:29] Music.[1:36:30] This was one of my favorites. Really enjoyed this song. Really strong melodies. It's unlike any other song in style. And again, we keep coming back to this, but it does not sound like any other Gord song. Doesn't sound like any other song on this album. Very much like an 80s vibe musically. There's a, you know, because I've criticized some solos, I will say I did enjoy the clean guitar solo on this song. And then there's a sax solo that comes in over top of that and i like how that how the tempo goes into halftime and then it kicks back in at the end yeah solid song so i got i got big money from rush in the intro that's what it felt like to me okay so just think of that synth you know.[1:37:21] Big money when before it comes in so but you're right man that that breakdown with the guitar and the sax i just kept repeating that i freaking loved that like and you know you guys you know i i'm i like the dead and and one of the reasons why i think i like the tragically hit because they are jam band no matter what you say they are jam band and they're not going to go off into crazy solos well they did go off into crazy gourd vocal solos you could say right but you know rob's not ripping it for 25 minutes and and you know breaking out the wall and making sure you're you know timing your dose just right but um it it i i love that part to this is that um that that that breakdown. Cause you just, and again, and I'm also a big rush fan. So that intro, so yeah, yeah, this is one of those, like I said, I didn't have my MVP, but this was definitely like a strong, strong candidate. And then my final note on this, this was the last vocal recorded before he was diagnosed is some research that I did. So this was the last vocal was let me before, before he was diagnosed entirely for me.[1:38:41] Not necessarily the meaning, but just context. Wow. Been hitting the head with the shovel here. Who else needs to talk about Let Me Howl? I think it's just Justin, right? Who, me? Yeah. Yeah, the sax makes me feel like I'm driving a cab in Manhattan in 1986.[1:39:06] And it's raining out. you know uh it's so freaking cool and it's a long song and it does weird things i remember the first time that i heard it i thought that we were going to have a fade out on the on that half you know the the slower beat um or the half time whatever you want to call it and, and then out of nowhere this massive film and and we're back and we're faster than we were before, right like it there there's a sense of urgency at the end of the song like let me howl here like i'm i gotta get this out and um it's really really fun like again it's, you can slow dance to this song and you can boogie to this song and you can, i don't know it's it's really really fun and um it's up there for mvp for me it's not my mvp but it's top three or four. I also like how the chorus, let me howl. And on the word howl, he has this like glissando up, like a slow glissando up along with the harmony, which is what a wolf does. Like, um, he's not going clean from one note to another. He's got, he's, he's like slurring up to it. Okay. And like, like a wolf would do when they howl.[1:40:30] And also there's some very slight changes to the way he sings it, I believe, if I'm remembering, if this is the song I'm thinking of, where the chorus slightly changes like the notes he's singing different times or the harmony changes. Something changes a little bit that I thought was really cool. I didn't listen to it today, so.[1:40:52] Justin, hell breaks loose. What do you think? I immediately, before I knew it, I knew that this was Johnny Faye playing drums. Um yeah and uh it's it's a it's a really cool again and like i just referenced new york city um and it's in the first line of this song like and he paints the picture of walking into a bar and it's kirk watching a soccer game right uh fireworks on the roof elbow one of the very first dates with, with my, with my wife, we watched a world cup game in a, in a bar that was shoulder to shoulder and it was two teams I didn't give a shit about and everybody was cheering and everybody was drinking and it was, you know, and then one guy got pissed off, bigger screens, bigger feelings. Right. And it's, it's cool.

It's time to go "looney" with the one and only Jeff Bergman! Jim voices iconic characters such as Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Sylvester, Tweety and more. On top of that, he's also a legend of Hanna Barbera, providing voices for characters such as Fred Flintstone, Barney Rubble, George Jetson and Yogi Bear.Support Jim on Patreon for EXCLUSIVE CONTENT including EARLY & AD-FREE ACCESS, DISNEY AUDIO COMMENTARIES, PRIZE DRAWS and more by joining the Toon'd In! family today at patreon.com/jimcummingspodcastFor more information on Jim's upcoming appearances, visit jimcummingsworld.comOrder a cameo from Jim at cameo.com/toondinjimcummingsCHECK OUT FOUR FINGER DISCOUNT'S OTHER PODCASTS:Four Finger Discount (Simpsons) - spreaker.com/show/four-finger-discount-simpsons-podcastGoin' Down To South Park - spreaker.com/show/goin-down-to-south-parkThe One About Friends - spreaker.com/show/the-one-about-friends-podcastSpeaKing Of The Hill - spreaker.com/show/speaking-of-the-hill-a-king-of-the-hill-Talking Seinfeld - spreaker.com/show/talking-seinfeldTales Of Futurama - futuramapodcast.com Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/toon-d-in-with-jim-cummings--5863067/support.

Boy, does Alice have a tale for you. Travel, mystery, sex, and, for whatever reason, an iPhone 7. Everything you could want from a modern thriller. Well, except the iPhone 7. Meanwhile, Doug can draw Barney Rubble. You'll have to take his word for it. Other discussion topics may include: - How can you tell if you're in your own Fight Club scenario? - Is art magic?* - Some really clever jokes about how Mormons have multiple partners - The compulsive need to watch Titanic anytime it's on television - Pranks vs. Crimes, and when they can overlap *Yes --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/goingterribly/message

Another Sinister Six arc on our beloved rock-cast comes to a close with 1994's The Flintstones. Fred Flintstone lives a happy life working as a bronto-crane operator in the prehistoric town of Bedrock. Even so, Fred longs to be somebody and provide a better life for his wife Wilma and their daughter Pebbles. An opportunity arises when Slate and Co. gives its workers a chance to become a corporate bigshot. Thanks to his best friend Barney Rubble secretly switching tests with him, Fred lands the job and finally gets a shiny nameplate. Little does Fred know that the entire promotion program is actually an embezzlement scheme concocted by the snooty Cliff Vandercave. Fred goes from crags to riches overnight and risks losing sight of what's really important. Can he unravel Cliff's plan before the mad MBA pulls a fast one on Bedrock? Make sure to prep your Dictabird, order some RocDonalds, open a bottle of Rock Daniels for today's modern stone age episode of Andesite Was (Not) A Mistake! Podbean/iTunes/Stitcher/Spotif Follow us on Instagram:@animewasnotamistakepodcast Or on Facebook:@animewasnotamistakepod Music Provided by: "Danse Macabre" Saint-Saëns - Rock/Metal Version Cover – EXMORTUS TV “Live and Learn” – Crush 40 - Main Theme of Sonic: Adventure 2 “Chromaggia” – Repo! The Genetic Opera: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack

Chris Bailey X3 and Mark Radulich present their The Flintstones and The Flintstones Viva Rock Vegas Review. The Flintstones is a 1994 American family comedy film directed by Brian Levant and written by Tom S. Parker, Jim Jennewein, and Steven E. de Souza based on the 1960–1966 animated television series of the same name by Hanna-Barbera. The film stars John Goodman as Fred Flintstone, Rick Moranis as Barney Rubble, Elizabeth Perkins as Wilma Flintstone, and Rosie O'Donnell as Betty Rubble, along with Kyle MacLachlan as Cliff Vandercave, a villainous executive-vice president of Fred's company, Halle Berry as Sharon Stone, his seductive secretary, and Elizabeth Taylor (in her final theatrical film appearance), as Pearl Slaghoople, Wilma's mother. The B-52's performed their version of the cartoon's theme song, playing cavemen versions of themselves as the BC-52's.The film, shot in California, was theatrically released on May 27, 1994. It received mostly negative reviews from critics but was a box office success grossing almost $342 million worldwide against a $46 million budget. A tie-in promotion with McDonald's was made to promote the film. The movie was originally acquired by New Line Cinema, but then sold to Universal Pictures.A prequel titled The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas was released in 2000. The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas is a 2000 American romantic comedy film directed by Brian Levant, written by Jim Cash, Harry Elfont, Deborah Kaplan, and Jack Epps, Jr., and is the prequel to Levant's The Flintstones (1994), based on the 1960–1966 animated television series of the same name. The film was a box office failure, grossing $59.5 million against its $83 million budget. It received mixed-to-negative reviews, though some critics considered it an improvement over the first film.Disclaimer: The following may contain offensive language, adult humor, and/or content that some viewers may find offensive – The views and opinions expressed by any one speaker does not explicitly or necessarily reflect or represent those of Mark Radulich or W2M Network.Mark Radulich and his wacky podcast on all the things:https://linktr.ee/markkind76alsoFB Messenger: Mark Radulich LCSW Tiktok: @markradulichtwitter: @MarkRadulichInstagram: markkind76

We start off tonight with another episode of that great quiz show, “Information Please.”  Are you up on babies and their guardians, military insignia, and devils in literature?  Then, since it's almost time for Easter, here's the Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble of OTR: Phil Harris and Elliot Lewis.  “The Phil Harris-Alice Faye Show” starred actual married couple, Phil Harris, who was the band leader on “The Jack Benny Program,” and popular film star Alice Faye.  Tonight, Phil and his band's guitarist, Elliot, attempt to use a drugstore chemistry set to color Easter eggs.  What could possibly go wrong? Episodes Information Please March 13, 1944 “Guest:  Quentin Reynolds” 2:11 The Phil Harris-Alice Faye Show April 5, 1953 "Coloring Easter Eggs Phil's Way” 32:46

Yabba dabba doo-it! Josh & Joe talk Hanna-Barbera & explore the fantastical world of the live-action Flintstones movie. Come down to Bedrock to reminisce about the iconic McDonalds merchandise & ponder whether Rick Moranis makes a good Barney Rubble. Available on Amazon, Apple, Castbox, Google, iHeartRadio, Overcast, Pocket Casts, RadioPublic, and Spotify! Josh: @queerbaitdanceparty Joe: @something_of_boris Theme music by Jason Mitchell: @jasonlynnmitchell

This week, Justin tells Darrin all about one of his favorite voice actors: the man behind the voice of Bugs Bunny, Barney Rubble, and so many more: Mel Blanc!   Download and listen today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  iHeart, Amazon, Stitcher,  Goodpods, and more of your favorite podcast services!

ToyMan Show - Toys, Comics & Con January 14th, 2024   with FEATURED CELEBRITY GUEST  SCOTT INNES - voice actor BEST known for SCOOBY DOO franchise and so many others... along with his newest role in "The Iron Claw" The Von Erich story (wrestling movie) Scott Innes is an American voice actor, author, songwriter and radio personality. He is best known for his voice over work in various Warner Bros. and Hanna-Barbera animated films, television shows, video games and commercials, most notably as Scooby-Doo, Shaggy Rogers, Scrappy-Doo, Popeye the Sailor, Fred Flintstone, Barney Rubble, Foghorn Leghorn, Muttley, Bugs Bunny, Yogi Bear and Captain Caveman. He has also provided the voice of Fred Jones, Boo-Boo Bear, Snagglepuss, Papa Smurf, Elroy Jetson, Astro, Quick Draw McGraw, Baba Looey, Elmer Fudd, Spike Bulldog and Ranger Smith in commercials.*** DON'T Forget - TWO LEVELS **> Toys - Comics - Authors - Crafters Artists - Illustrators - Cosplay - Podcasts

This week on "The Friars Club Podcast," Joe chats with Noel Blanc, the son of legendary voice actor and Friar Mel Blanc about the 1961 California Friars tribute to Mel following a near-fatal car accident, his father's friendship and collaboration with Friars Jack Benny and George Burns, and his legendary career as the voice behind cartoon characters such as Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Woody Woodpecker, Yosemite Sam, Barney Rubble, and Porky Pig. Plus, Noel talks about the politics of cigarettes during the Golden Age of Radio, attending the Burns & Allen radio show as a kid, his father's friendship with Friar Johnny Carson, the eccentricity of Paul Frees (the voice of the Pillsbury Doughboy), and his own near-death experience with Kirk Douglas.

Welcome to the Instant Trivia podcast episode 1057, where we ask the best trivia on the Internet. Round 1. Category: Astronomical Rhyme Time 1: Any song about Earth's natural satellite. a Moon tune. 2: Red planet pubs. Mars bars. 3: Space telescope problem. Hubble trouble. 4: Comet discoverer Edmond's narrow lanes. Halley's alleys. 5: One who determines the age of meteorite impact holes. a crater dater (crater rater accepted). Round 2. Category: Fill In The (Mel) Blanc 1: This 3-word query might have been Mel Blanc's first words. What's up, Doc?. 2: Blanc joined Hanna-Barbera to voice this character, Fred's neighbor and Betty's husband. (Barney) Rubble. 3: It was Mel Blanc's catchphrase when voicing a crested bird of the southwest U.S.. Beep, beep. 4: For "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", Blanc revived 5 characters including Tweety and this other bird. Daffy Duck. 5: As a railroad announcer on Jack Benny's radio and TV shows, Blanc called out the stations "Anaheim, Azusa and" this. Cucamonga. Round 3. Category: Monarchs Of England 1: The one with the second-longest reign. Elizabeth II. 2: Harold II had been king less than 10 months when he was defeated by William the Conqueror in this year. 1066. 3: He was king not only during the American war of independence but during the War of 1812 as well. George III. 4: This king, brother of Richard the Lionheart has a bad reputation; even his title, Count of Mortain, sounds evil. John. 5: This restored king ruled during the great plague of 1665 and the Great Fire of London the following year. Charles II. Round 4. Category: Literary Couples 1: Her book title "Sonnets from the Portuguese" refers to her husband's nickname for her. Elizabeth Barrett Browning. 2: Dashiell Hammett modeled this lady sleuth after his lover, Lillian Hellman. Nora Charles. 3: She wrote a book subtitled "The Modern Prometheus"; he wrote the drama "Prometheus Unbound". Mary Shelley and Percy Shelley. 4: 2 of her novels contain barely fictionalized portraits of her lover, Jean-Paul Sartre. Simone de Beauvoir. 5: At least 2 of her books are dedicated to Quintana, her daughter by John Gregory Dunne. Joan Didion. Round 5. Category: Biography 1: Born an Air Force brat in Germany in 1959, he won his first Wimbledon in 1981 and married Tatum O'Neal in 1986. John McEnroe. 2: "Parting the Waters" is volume 1 in Taylor Branch's trilogy about this man's life and the civil rights movement. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.. 3: She's the political wife profiled here. Ethel Kennedy. 4: She was one of the last stars in the studio system"The tobacco farmer's daughter from North Carolina was awed and intimidated by the luxury of the MGM system.". Ava Gardner. 5: Born into Philadelphia's "High Society" in 1929, became a princess in 1956, lived happily ever after until 1982. Princess Grace/Grace Kelly. Thanks for listening! Come back tomorrow for more exciting trivia!Special thanks to https://blog.feedspot.com/trivia_podcasts/ AI Voices used

You know we are too far gone as a society when we can't appreciate the beauty of a perfect Flintstones live-action adaptation. We dare you, all of you, to propose a better cast. This was it: there won't be a better Fred than John Goodman. And if anybody was ever going to crack the puzzle of Barney Rubble's character, it would be Rick Moranis. But critics had to turn on the movie and now it's infamously rotten on the Tomatometer. Listen to Alex & Julio as they defend the Spielrock production that deserves the most reevaluating!TIMELINE00:01:24 The Flintstones00:13:26 Contrarians Corner- Wanna know how we really feel about THE FLINTSTONES? Check out the Real Talk (RT) episode, on your feed RIGHT NOW!- Interested in more Contrarians goodness? Join THE CONTRARIANS SUPPLEMENTS on our Patreon Page! Deleted clips, extended plugs, bonus episodes free from the Tomatometer shackles… It's everything a Contrarians devotee would want!- Our YouTube page is live! Get some visual Contrarians delight with our Contrarians Warm-Ups and other fun videos!- Contrarians Merch is finally here! Check out our RED BUBBLE MERCH PAGE and buy yourself something nice that's emblazoned with one of our four different designs!- THE FESTIVE YEARS have been letting us use their music for years now and they are amazing. You can check out their work on Spotify, on Facebook or on their very own website.- Our buddy Cory Ahre is being kind enough to lend a hand with the editing of some of our videos. If you like his style, wait until you see what he does over on his YouTube Channel.- THE LATE NIGHT GRIN isn't just a show about wrestling: it's a brand, a lifestyle. And they're very supportive of our Contrarian endeavors, so we'd like to return the favor. Check out their YouTube Channel! You might even spot Alex there from time to time.- Hans Rothgiesser, the man behind our logo, can be reached at @mildemonios on Twitter or you can email him at mildemonios@hotmail.com in case you ever need a logo (or comics) produced. And you can listen to him talk about Peruvian politics on his own podcast, NACION COMBI and Peruvian economics on his other podcast, MARGINAL! Aaaaand you can also check out all the stuff he's written on his own website. He has a new book: a fake Peruvian History Textbook called HIZTORIA DEL PERÚ. Ask him about it!

SEASON 2 EPISODE 67: COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN A-Block (1:44) SPECIAL COMMENT: Dementia J. Trump's lawyers last night filed a 35-page document to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, one or two paragraphs of which asks that court to BAR Judge Tanya Chutkan from reinstating the gag order on him. The rest of it is about how wonderful he is and how much he leads in the primary polls and it sounds like the dialogue they gave Rita Moreno in the last scene of the Jack Nicholson movie “Carnal Knowledge.”  From the first (!) page: “President Trump's uniquely powerful voice has been a fixtue of American political discourse for eight years, and central to the American fabric for decades.” Well, true, like car alarms. Or Herpes. From Item 4, on Page 11: "The Gag Order violates the rights of tens of millions of Americans to receive President Trump's speech: A restriction on President Trump's speech inflicts a reciprocal injury on the rights of over 100 million Americans who listen to him…" Listen to him bout how big and strong he is and how he is better, more beautiful, more powerful, more perfect, more strong, more masculine, more extraordinary, more virile, more domineering, more irresistible and more up in the air and I may have added a little something to the text there. More importantly, but less entertainingly, Judge Chutkan hits the gas, Judge Engoron hits the roof, Judge Cannon does NOT hit the pause button. Chutkan sent a not so subtle sign to the Trump Cult that the Subversion trial will start as planned 123 days from now, and Jack Smith let Cannon know that Trump was playing her like a two dollar banjo. Also, here in New York, the FBI searched the home of the Mayor's top campaign fundraiser and all of a sudden there is a money scandal involving her, him, a construction company, the nation of Turkey, donors who didn't donate, and don't blame me, I voted for the Garbage Commissioner Lady. And back in DC, Lauren Boeber and Marjorie Taylor Greene and Chip Roy in a three-way… war of words. It began with a post by Roy, explaining why he moved to stop the vote to censure Representative Tlaib. Then Barney Rubble sub-tweeted him: “You voted to kick me out of the freedom caucus, but keep CNN wannabe Ken Buck and vaping groping Lauren Boebert…” to which Roy replied “Tell her to go-chase so-called Jewish space lasers if she wants to spend time on that sort of thing.” And Greene responded “Oh shut up Colonel Sanders” and predicted that this would all end with him reciting “powdered wig soliloquies as Americans are marched to the firing squads”and no, I don't get the reference either. Curiously silent through all this was Vaping Groping Lauren Boebert. Sources say she's simply sitting there quietly, trying to get a grip on the situation.  B-Block (26:03) THE WORST PERSONS IN THE WORLD (26:03) Dean Phillips, the Harlan Crow-funded "Democrat" challenging Biden, may have a bigger problem even than Crow. Fox is equally-opportunity hate: Jesse Watters gets suspended for threatening Arab Americans; Mark Levin lies about Wolf Blitzer's grandparents and denies they died in the holocaust. And after an ex-NHL player dies from taking a skate to his neck, how could an NHL team glorify one of their players nearly cutting another player with EACH of his skates? C-Block (35:05) FRIDAYS WITH THURBER: There is boredom, there is paranoia, there is fantasy, there is detective fiction, there is self-satirization. Put them all together and you get Thurber's epic "The Lady on 142."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Double, Triple, Toil and Trouble, Fire burn and Cauldron bubble, These three witches are funnier than Barney Rubble! Fill your goblet and settle in for some witchy history on this Halloween special episode. And now, Shelley, Lysa and Darryl!

Broken Window's, Imaginary Problem's, Brown Gatorade, Sober Driver, Hand Touching's, Urine Fees, Potassium Source, Division of Hotel and State, Fish Friday, Aisle Three Poop's, Machine Reset's, Easter Pregnants, Urined Food's

On the newest episode of Comics and Chronic the boys sit down with GLAAD, Ringo and Eisner Award winning writer Mark Russell to talk about The Flintstones, Exit Stage Left: The Snagglepuss Chronicles and his new Kickstarter project Bunkbed Mishaps. What is Eugene, Oregon like? How does it compare to West Virginia? Why doesn't Mark smoke? How did Count Chocula fan fiction on Facebook lead to Mark working at DC Comics? Is it being turned into a comic? What were Mark's comic influences growing up? Is humor leaving comics? Have comics as a medium become more genre specific? How does Mark feel about changing decades old cartoon properties? Does he ever get clap back for it? Who is Mark writing for? What comics is Mark currently reading? Why is Traveling to Mars an important new Mark Russell project? Was Mark Russell raised as a Christian? What does Mark tell us about the newest volume of Second Coming: Trinity? Why does Mark think Christians were so upset with the original Second Coming comic? What were some of the serious intents behind his Flintstones comic? Are we all seen as appliances? Did Mark watch the 94 Flintstones movie to prepare for writing his Flintstones comic series? Was the 94 Flintstones well-casted? How does this movie compare to Viva Rock Vegas? Should Martin Scorsese do a Casino-inspired Flintstones movie? Does Mark have anything to do with the newly announced Flintstones animated series Bedrock? What non-comic projects is Mark working on? Is Second Coming being adapted into an animated series? Why does Mark like writing comics? Even though comic book movies are huge are comic books still a niche appreciation? Is Mark's goal just to get his stories published? Do people in the comic community enjoy Mark? How is being a successful comic book writer like being a plumber? What Batman/Joker story does Mark want to write? Who would Mark like to see play Barney Rubble? Who's a big fan of Run the Jewels? Why is pre-ordering a trade like Mark Russell's Superman: Space Age important for authors? Bunkbed Mishaps - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1503204291/bunkbed-mishaps Check out our website: ⁠⁠https://www.comicsandchronic.com/⁠⁠ New episodes every THURSDAY Follow us on social media! Instagram // Twitter // TikTok : @comicsnchronic YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC45vP6pBHZk9rZi_2X3VkzQ E-mail: comicsnchronicpodcast@gmail.com Cody Twitter: @Cody_Cannon Instagram: @walaka_cannon TikTok: @codywalakacannon Jake Instagram: @jakefhaha Anthony Instagram // Twitter // TikTok : @mrtonynacho YouTube: youtube.com/nachocomedy

At The Movies In this new series, "At The Movies," Baruch shares with you some famous characters from the big screen and boob tube that exemplify the best and worst of each Enneagram type. In this video, B explores Enneagram 2 - think Bev Goldberg from the Goldbergs, Minnie Mouse, Barney Rubble or pick your best supporting actress. This is a fun way to go deeper into the Enneagram and to discover and defy your Enneagram number! Jump over to https://defiantspirit.org/podcast/ to download the infographic.

EPISODE 139: COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN A-Block (1:43) SPECIAL COMMENT: The Kevin McCarthy/Tucker Carlson Scandal has blown wide open as The Capitol Police Board meets to vote on whether or not to stop the Speaker from giving the Fox News Liar what Rep. Zoe Lofgren calls "a blueprint for bad guys on how to more successfully attack the Capitol." House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries convenes his caucus this afternoon to take what action it can as Jeffries calls the collusion between McCarthy and Carlson "an egregious security breach." In essence, Kevin McCarthy has STOLEN the January 6th video and handed it to Tucker Carlson, and Tucker Carlson and Fox News have already done more damage to this country than Al-Qaeda or ISIS or Atomwaffen or any other terrorist group could dream of. We're approaching the 20th anniversary of the day Geraldo Rivera, live on Fox News Channel, gave away the position and movements of the 101st Airborne Division, and was literally escorted out of Iraq by the U.S. military. This underscores the reality that Fox News has NEVER cared about the troops, about freedoms, about America. It sells a product. The product is phony patriotism. The product is a distorted picture of America. The product is hate. The product is lies. It's time to put the manufacturers of the product, Fox "News," out of business. B-Block (20:27) POSTSCRIPTS TO THE NEWS: Trump Georgia Grand Jury presents Hint Number 32,753; Barney Rubble's Body Double doubles down on the Red State/Blue State divorce but adds taking away voting rights for Democrats; Democrats make criminal referral on Ohio Train Disaster while Republicans hesitate to offend their corporate masters (31:20) THE WORST PERSONS IN THE WORLD: an unfortunate Washington Post headline, a really dumb Oklahoma congressman, and a really disturbing Alaska state legislator who believes if an abused child is killed, "it's actually a benefit to society." C-Block (31:20) THINGS I PROMISED NOT TO TELL: When I talk about Fox and its core value - evil - I'm not just repeating what I've heard. I was once fired, personally, by Rupert Murdoch, for telling the truth, and my bosses got dragged for it as well.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Put down that pączek, and cease your shriving, for just a moment. You will need at least one prune and powdered sugar free finger to tap “play” on today's Fat Tuesday KITM with David Waldman and Joan McCarter! (Ok, take another bite.) President Joe Biden swung by a little Polish bakery he knows today on his way to make a speech pushing back on Vladimir Putin's warmongering. George Santos admits that he was a terrible liar, and fully regrets being caught. On the other hand, Congressman Andy Ogles continues to work to hone his lying to perfection. Rick Scott pencils in a few changes on his plans to cut all of the social safety net, but vows that the sun will never set on the US Navy.  Barney Rubble stunt double Marjorie Traitor Greene secedes from her own state to declare war on all 50. Michigan's new Republican Chair wants a reverse-Rapture to take away all non-evangelical Christians. And Kari Lake wants… to win, no more, no less. The people who have fought against "wokeness" and "cancel culture" in an effort to create a "small government" that stays out of their lives...  are making poop and pee jokes a felony punishable to 10 years in prison. You know who doesn't believe in such reactionary dim-witted delusion? Fox nighttime hosts, for one. Dominion Voting Systems is so confident that they have the goods on Fox, they are requesting a summary judgment on liability in its $1.6 billion lawsuit against Fox News. Fox is many things, but it sure ain't “news”. Every one of them are sliding off to Hell, and along comes Kevin McCarthy to throw them 41,000 hours of life preserver. If only Donald Trump were president he'd… be asking what have they done for him lately.

We're back with the 77th installment of the Heavyweight Podcast! In this week's episode we delve into why we jumped the broom. Other topics entail truth or feeling, Bruce's Beach and self-meditating and why marriages don't last.

We brought our dear friend Scott McGrath back on to 1) make each other watch another round of our guilty pleasure films, and 2) make up for the fact that his last guest appearance was for Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas. Scott brought Hackers (1995), Joe brought Gamer (2009), and Jack brought The Flintstones (1994). Jack learns something about how hacking and phone phreaking worked back in the 90s and also hears some other early Internet jargon, we all give Fisher Stevens' skateboarding prowess the appreciation it deserves, Joe causes permanent injury to his friends by uttering an unused working title for his movie, Scott reveals he would probably do whatever Ludacris told him to do, we gleefully revel in Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble nearly getting hanged by an angry mob, and we also lament the tendency of '90s filmmakers to end family movies with terrible musical choices. Get comfy for this one, and let us know what you think by rating and reviewing on iTunes, GoodPods, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. CW: Violence, racism, bodily autonomy, and fatphobia (all pertaining to Gamer) Podcasts plugged in this episode: Doom Generation (@DoomGenPod on Twitter); The Geeky Dad Podcast (@geekydadpodcast/@RaphaelMoran on Twitter) --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/derazzled/support

Mel Blanc was known as “the man of 1,000 voices,” but, to hear his son tell it, the actual number was closer to 1,500. Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Daffy Duck, Tweety, Barney Rubble, Woody Woodpecker, Sylvester, Foghorn Leghorn — all Mel. These characters made him one of the most beloved men in the United States. In this episode from 2012, Mel Blanc's son Noel tells Producer Sean Cole how his father's entire body would transform to bring life to these characters. But on a fateful day of 1961, after a crash left Mel in a lengthy coma, it was the characters who brought life to him.Episode Credits:Reported by Sean Cole Our newsletter comes out every Wednesday. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)! Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

INTRODUCTION: Emily Dufton“An oracle ofknowledge on all things marijuana” - BostonHeraldI'm a drug historian and writer based near Washington,D.C. I received my BA from New York University and earned my Ph.D. in AmericanStudies from George Washington University. My first book, Grass Roots: The Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana inAmerica, traced over 50 years of cannabis activism and wasnamed one of “The8 Best Weed Books to Read Right Now” by RollingStone and one of “The Top 5Cannabis Books to Have In Your Personal Library” by 10buds.com.Since its publication,I've become a commentator on America's changing cannabisscene. I've appeared on CNN,the History Channel andNPR's BackStory with the American History Guys, and my writing has been featured on TIME, CNN,SmithsonianMagazine, and the WashingtonPost. I'm currentlyworking on my second book, Addiction,Inc.: Medication-Assisted Treatment and the War on Drugs (under contractwith the University of Chicago Press). It's the history of the development andcommercialization of the opioid addiction medication industry. In 2021 I won a LukasWork-in-Progress Award to help finance its writing. In 2022 I won a Robert B. SilversGrant. I'm deeply grateful for all the support.I'm also a podcasthost on the NewBooks Network, where I interview authors on new books about drugs,addiction and recovery. I live in the People's Republic of TakomaPark, Maryland, with my husband Dickson Mercerand our two children.  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):  ·      A Look At The History Of Marijuana ·      Emily's Halloween Candy Advice·      De'Vannon's Experience With Hallucinogenics·      Great Grassroots Advice For Marijuana/Drug Activists ·      President Joe Biden's Major Moves For Marijuana·      The Inappropriate Relationship Between - Church + Media + Government·      Political Influences And Implications On Drugs·      The Balance Between Parents Rights And Kids Rights·      How Grassroots Organizations Impact Federal Policy·      Why We Shouldn't Assume Decriminalization Is Here To Stay  CONNECT WITH EMILY: Website: https://www.emilydufton.com/Grass Roots: https://www.emilydufton.com/grass-rootsLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3ganBPgFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/emily.duftonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/author_emily_dufton/Twitter: https://twitter.com/emily_duftonMedium: https://medium.com/@ebdufton   CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Emily Dufton is an author, podcast host, and a drug historian who has blessed the world with a phenomenal book, which is entitled Grass Roots. The rise and fall and rise of marijuana in America. This book offers phenomenal advice for marijuana slash drug activists and encourages us to not arrest on our laurels, assuming that drug decriminalization is here to stay.Now, I fell in love with Ms. Emily when I discovered her while [00:01:00] listening to the, the. To The ReidOut podcast hosted by the great Joy-Ann Reid over on msnbc, and it was a surreal delight to sit down and talk with Emily about what's going on with drugs right now, as well as what was going on with drugs back then.Also, would like everyone to please check out our YouTube channel because for this very special episode, Emily and I have dawned our Halloween costumes. She's a hot dog, and I'm Fred Flintstone, and you have got to check them out. Have a super safe Halloween everyone.Hello and happy Halloween everyone, and welcome to this very special edition of The Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. I wish you all a very, very spooky weekend. I have with me the great. Multi talented, multifaceted, delicious, and nutritious. Emily din, How are you, girl? Emily: Oh my God, I'm feeling delicious and nutritious.Thank [00:02:00] you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm De'Vannon: so fucking lely. Like you look delicious and nutritious. So you're dressed as a hot dog. I am. So I'm curious and you told me, Previously that you're a hot dog every year, and so I've been wondering, so some years, are you like a vegan hot dog another year?You're like a Polish sausage. You switch up the bond, like how exactly does it go? Emily: Oh, the hot dog is in the eye of the beholder. I, that's how it is. I think, you know, I live in Tacoma Park, Maryland. It's known as the Berkeley of the East. I think many people see me as a tofu dog, as a beyond beyond.Hot dog. Others as DC adjacent, you know, were like, I could be a half smoke. I could be, I'm just I just wear this because it's a costume I found on the side of the street in Capitol Hill in DC where I was living at the time, and I thought, [00:03:00] This is amazing. Someone is just giving away a hot dog costume.I'm going to give it a home and I'm going to be a hot dog every year from now until it literally falls apart. And so that's why I'm a hot dog every year. De'Vannon: looks brand new. I love it. Emily: Thank you. It gets washed from time to time. De'Vannon: from time. Good time. Look, I love me a good wier girl. So , Emily: I could be, I could be the wier of your dreams.Who knows? Let's see. We can put the, the top up for a minute. See you. De'Vannon: It's great. That is one. Okay. All right. There y'all. So . So Emily is an author and a drug historian. She holds a PhD in American Studies from George Washington University. She is the author of a fabulous book called Grassroots, the Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana in America.Has to do with how, how, how, how, [00:04:00] how earnest hippies, frightened parents suffering patients and other ordinary Americans went to war over the marijuana. It was a little mm-hmm. description I had of that. Before we go much further, I wanna take a moment to give a shout out to Ms. Joy and re over at the readout on msnbc, because that is how I discovered.Oh wow. . I saw you on her podcast and then I heard what you had to say about your grassroots book, and then I fell in love with you and when I built up the courage and got, got, got more bodies of works under my belt, I sent you a message, you know, hoping and praying that you would respond and you did.And so, Emily: Paul touch my heart. I'm so happy to be here. And honestly, like I The idea that, that, oh, you would be at all nervous to talk to me, makes me just like ache a little bit on the inside. I'm so happy to talk to you and this is such an honor for me to [00:05:00] be here. We are. You wrote a book, We Are equals, We know, We know what it is to go into the, the pain cave of writing and, and try to create something intelligible and lengthy about complicated subjects.You know, so writer to writer, you and I are, we are. Eye to eye. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. De'Vannon: The sausage and so, So I'm like a glittery version of Fred Flinstone because, As far as I'm concerned, we all know what Fred Freestone and Barney Rubble were really doing over in Bed Rock, Honey and Emily: Rock. I mean, come on.Yeah, it was right inDe'Vannon: Barney Rubs a total bottom. I know. It . So, So in your own words, I've given like my take on, is there anything you'd like to say about yourself, your own personal history or anything? Emily: Gosh. [00:06:00] Like, like about writing grassroots or about like what? Like about me as a human being. De'Vannon: Anything about you at all.Your favorite color, Favorite place you've traveled. We're gonna get into grassroots right after you. Tell us whatever you'd like to say. Just about yourself. Oh my at all since I've already given a little history, so you don't have to Oh, Emily: lovely. I'm a Piy, Sun Sagittarius, Rising Pisces Moon. I have two children a boy who's six and a little girl who's almost three.I'm working on my second book right now, which is about the history of medication assisted treatment for opioid use disorder, and I won a couple grants to fund the work, and it's been super awesome. And hopefully I'm gonna go to Switzerland either at the end of this year or the beginning of next year to compare addiction treatment programs over there with America's treatments.So those are, I think by far the most pertinent facts about me that everyone should, [00:07:00] should know. .De'Vannon: I think those are pretty damn good and relevant facts. the, the, the resurgence of healing with the drugs. Look, I just got back from Portland, Oregon dealing shrooms. And sell. So that is a cell aside, but, and what the fuck else I did?Mdm a I had never been shrooms before in my life and since I'm a veteran who suffers from ptsd, O C D and you know, all of these things and I saw on Netflix and the How to Change Your Mind documentary on PBS history of Mil illness. Documentary, how they've been using these hallucinogenics to help veterans.And I thought, Okay, I'm not gonna wait for this to be approved. I'm gonna fly my happy ass up here and do these shrooms. Man, it took seven grams for me to like fill anything. And apparently that's like a lot. And wow. I don't know, apparently besides the Emily: social work. Oh, that context. Yeah. So you did like an official, like, like clinical trial?It De'Vannon: wasn't a trial I paid for this. I [00:08:00] found a social worker who was willing to to do it in a psychiatric setting. Uhhuh, he feel like his woods are like an hour north of Portland into his cabin in the woods. So that, cuz he was like insistent that the environment be like, Right. And so it was like a guided assistant thing.It was, it was clinical, but I paid for it. I wasn't, I didn't wait for a trial Emily: to come. Totally, totally understood. That's awesome. How was it? Was it a good experience?De'Vannon: It follows me, so in a good way. So like if I smoke weed, it does not have an effect on me. I've tried different strands, different states, different times.I used to sell the hell out of it back in my drug dealing days, but I never fool with it too much. I used to sell shrooms. I never did 'em either. But I have discovered that if I do like a CBD gummy, I will be sitting around looking like EE from South Park. I feel that. But, so the, the C B D [00:09:00] does the same thing that the MDM A and the shrooms did.It quiet hit my mind. So I was expecting to have one of those like, really jerky experiences like I saw in the documentary, but that did not happen for me at all because my mind is always like this with the OCD and the PTSD and everything. Mm-hmm. . So for me, what those, what those hallucinogenics did was it just neutralized.And so I was just like, still just silent, quiet. And so I have found things that I used to, that I used to have anxiety over. I don't anymore. And so basically that peace, it, it attached itself to me in those, in that state of mind. Emily: I love that. So, so quieted your minds downed. How long did the quietness.De'Vannon: It's ongoing. So I was, while the drugs had their effect on me, okay, on this room, you know, the trees started to like move and the prints, you know, the pattern in the carpet started [00:10:00] dancing and doing his own thing and whatnot. So that was kind of freaky. But once that all settled down, , you know, you know, So it's not like it was, I, I have found, this has been like maybe three weeks ago that I was in Portland.It hasn't changed. You know, I still feel peace. It's like, and I experienced the same thing when I started experiment, the CBD gummies, which has only been like maybe two or three months ago. Mm-hmm. That I discovered that these gummies will have an impact on me. That's interesting. It's like, it's, it's a permanent thing with me.Emily: Wow. And have you had any kind of I don't know, like sessions or counseling or anything to kind of talk about like, But you know, sort of digesting the effects of it or like, maybe I don't even, I don't even know what the word is, but have, have you communicated at all with the guy who led the session since he, De'Vannon: He was, he is open to that and he wanted to schedule a follow up, but [00:11:00] I, and I can reach out to him if I want to, Emily, but I, I was ready, you know, like writing my blog and my books in the show and I see a, a social worker every week anyway.I see a licensed family marriage, the. A couple of times a month for me and my boyfriend, and then I see a hypno therapist once a month. And so I'm always professing and manifesting the change that I want. I went into it already. I didn't really embody to do too much handholding, and I'm all like, I'm ready to let this shit go.Like we talk about it, but it's already done . Emily: That's great. And this is the thing that allowed you to do that. Like you're just like, I just need that final push to get it out. Right. I love that there's a guy. Oh yeah. Sorry. Keep going. De'Vannon: You go, You're the guest girl. Oh, Emily: no. I'm just saying there's someone so I live right outside of DC in Tacoma Park, Maryland, and which I think I've said already but.There's this doctor who just moved here and [00:12:00] started a practice where he's doing exactly that. He's using Ketamine though. And so he's doing these like lead ketamine therapy sessions. And then afterwards he offers sessions to, I'm trying to remember like the verb he used. It wasn't like aggregate, but it was like to sort of like digest the experience.So you have this experience with ketamine that will hopefully release in the patient, the same kind of things that released in your experience. And then he would kind of provide the counseling or the, the therapy sessions to help sort of bring, make, make manifest the effects. And I thought, Oh my God, like, here it is.It's, it's, it's here. You know, like sort of this pro, this ability to access these drugs in a therapeutic. You know, private, like obviously like , you know, industrial way, but it's here. And God, that is like 10 years ago. I think experiences like yours are like the one that this doctor is offering would've been like [00:13:00] unimaginable.And yet now they're here and they're moving into all these communities. You know, it's not just Portland, Oregon, it's like here in, right outside of DC it's everywhere. And that to me is a totally fascinating aspect of like drug policy in the United States. It's wild. Totally. De'Vannon: I'm so happy to have it here too.But as you warn in your book grassroots that we're about to get into you know, these things tend to come and. At times. Yeah. Because this wasn't the first time that we were on the border of finding therapeutic uses for drugs before the drug war on drugs. Shut it down. Right. And so we're happy to have it back.And towards the end of the interview, I was most intrigued with the, the six lessons that you have for grassroots advocate for people at the end. And so I really gotta let you give that advice because I really feel like people need to hear that because people. Are feeling really grass rooty these days.It'll be . Emily: That's true. ,De'Vannon: it would be great for them to to to hear, hear [00:14:00] your advice so that they can be helped. Emily: I had to go get my copy. I haven't looked at that in a while. That's right. I forgot. I had like six little lessons in the back. Yeah. The one I remember, the Yes. Make your argument as sympathetic as possible was lesson one.Mm-hmm. . Because the more you center like a really sympathetic identity in the middle of your campaign, the more likely people are to. Feel bad for you and generate empathic warmth and support, right? Which is why you always see like puppies, like with their ribs exposed cuz they're starving in the rain, chained to a box and you're like, Please take my money to save the puppy.Lesson two. It's all about the money, which is exactly what we were talking about. Money buys influence. Lesson three, Be prepared to watch your progress disappear. Lesson four, don't rely too heavily on the White House. Lesson five, Respect your opposition and lesson six, keep a sense of perspective.Wow. I forgot I wrote these. That's so interesting. Yeah, [00:15:00] like, you know what's, Sorry, De'Vannon: keep going. No saying. So. We'll talk about those towards the end, cuz I thought those would be cute. Okay. So you can just kind of like, you know, peruse over that while we're going through. And and then of course people go by the books.So if you're a grassroots person and you wanna figure out. How to escape some pitfalls and things like that. I think this is a really good book and if you wanna have insight cause we're all also passionate about this, you know, this resurgence and everything. But I think that your book, you know, is like so evergreen, you know, in the, in the sense that, you know, it's an ongoing battle in this country because as you say, it's the rise, the fall, the rise, you know, it goes back and forth.There's no reason for us to be so arrogant as to assume that it can't fall again, because as you lay out in the book, every time we have. Arise for decriminalization. There's an opposing force that wants to fight that. Right. And so, and it was no different then. It's the same way now. So you wanted to give a warning though, for Halloween candy.I [00:16:00] wanted to be sure that we have time for that, because that was something you specifically requested. And so tell us your, this is, this is Emily's warning about this Halloween came to y'all. Oh Emily: my God. It's less of warning and just more of like a. I, I just every year, Well, this year in particular, I feel like there have been a lot of news stories about the rainbow colored fentanyl that apparently is going to show up in children's Halloween staes nationwide.And I love it because like, it just goes to show how. Drugs. The concept of drugs, right? When we talk about drugs, we're never just talking about drugs, right? We're always talking about larger issues and larger questions and larger ideas. And I feel like this, like the new fear of 2022, Halloween, 2022 of Fentanyl being dispersed widely in like Halloween candy is just, it's a really convenient vehicle for like political mud slinging, right?And. [00:17:00] You know, so the right can mud sling at the left by saying, Oh, it's the liberal's open border policies that is allowing Mexican cartels to funnel this rainbow colored fentanyl across the borders. And now it's gonna, now my kid's gonna eat it thinking it's a sweet tart and die. So that's how, like the right is mudslinging the left and then the left mud slings the right in return by saying, right.You're so stupid. No drug dealer is going to give away drugs for free. That is not how drug dealing works. . So there's just this and like, you know, so whenever we're talking about drugs, we're always talking about so much more than just drugs. Like there, like the concept of drugs is weighted with all of these other topics that we like, press upon it.And it becomes something that's like, kind of like a football, right? It's just always being thrown back and forth, you know? People are always going to use the concept of drugs or the concept of punishment or the concept of treatment as a political vehicle to achieve [00:18:00] other ends, right? Whether those are financial or moral or law enforcement, whatever.But I just feel like the Halloween candy saga that we go through every year is like kind of a good sort of visual entry point on to this topic that like, Drugs are always much more than just drugs, right? There are ways for us to discuss as Americans and as human beings, concepts that are obviously like much more complicated and oftentimes more complex than just like fentanyl or pot or whatever else itself.So I guess that's like my opening concept for conversation . De'Vannon: Yes, as a former drug dealer, I can attest to what Mr. Mrs. Dustin is saying is true. We don't to run around giving away drugs for free honey, especially not to little children who don't have money to come back and buy any once they get addicted.That's . Emily: It's, it is a profoundly bad marketing plan. No one [00:19:00] benefits from it. No one benefits . De'Vannon: But you know, just like, you know, as you state in your book You know, the fear mongering, you know, the fear mongering is like a big deal coming from the left. And so, I mean, coming from the right and so Emily: and sometimes the De'Vannon: left , it can, it can, mm-hmm.it pains me to say, but it's just so true. You know, Emily: sometimes we have to be honest about our own, you know, . De'Vannon: You know what? I don't, I don't, I don't want, I don't want a political party. I just wanna be like me. I just wanna be like me. I know. Whatever makes free to be you and me. What do you think about what Biden did though with the rolling back the the, the, the legal, the, the cases against people with the marijuana charges?Emily: I mean, it was really interesting, right? It was kind of came out in nowhere, right? He hadn't talked [00:20:00] much about. Marijuana policy at all on the campaign trail or during these first two years? I remember Kamala Harris during the Vice presidential debate was the very first presidential or vice presidential candidate to ever say during a debate, like, Yes, I support decriminalization.And she said that. So Kamala mentioned it, but like Biden never did. So he comes out and he makes this announcement and. Like it's immediate effect is going to be relatively small because the only marijuana convictions he's allowed to overturn are ones that he can control and he can only control federal convictions for possession.And that's not the, like that many it's about 6,500 nationally and it's, I don't know the number. No one would gave it. No one would give it. But it's also convictions for possession in DC because DC is federal. So that actually, that number might be more considerable than 6,500, but like I have not seen [00:21:00] a news outlet give it yet.But anyway, like that's pretty small compared to the millions of people who have been arrested. It's kind of a drop in the bucket. But what he also said was he was going to talk to eight, the Department of Health and HHS Health and Human. Services. He's going to talk to the FDA and he is going to talk to the DEA for the three federal agencies in charge of drug policy and talk about, and he wanted to talk about descheduling cannabis.So right now, pot is a schedule one drug and it's been a Schedule one drug since 1970. And, Being schedule one, that means that the federal government considers it to have no medical utility and a high risk for abuse, which is of course very silly. Since 1996, it became medical marijuana. So of course it has some medical utilities.Schedule one placement has been kind of nuts for at least since 1996. [00:22:00] He wants to talk about descheduling it, taking it outta the schedules completely. And if you deschedule a. That means it can become a legitimate legal marketplace item like cigarettes or alcohol. It could become a commercial product, and that is a really big decision.It's already kind of becoming a commercial product, but those industries are like very cottage still. Like there is a huge medical marijuana industry and there is a growing recreational cannabis industry, but there's still like, In the span of things, right, Like along the spectrum of, of products, it's still fairly small.So to deschedule it completely and turn it into a commercial product that would transform the cannabis industry in the United States and ultimately worldwide. So it's a huge decision. It's a huge, it's this, this the beginning of a huge conversation. So like right [00:23:00] after he made that announcement it was right before last weekend.People were like, I didn't really know what to make of it, honestly. But the more I've read, like things on Twitter from people I respect and some articles, the more I realize he's launching like a pretty huge conversation. And now would be the time for activists who are interested in creating, as, you know, equitable and kind.Fundamentally good natured and industry as possible, like now would be the time for them to really get involved because, you know, conversations about, about descheduling are happening and those are, those are important. And you know, the time to influence the marketplaces now cuz it's starting to take shape, which is crazy.I mean, it's like the same thing we were talking about before where like now you can go someplace and have like ketamine treatment, like these things are available. So it's time to figure out what, like we actually want the industry to look. De'Vannon: [00:24:00] Hell yeah. Something to tap into that energy and push it forward.I feel you on that. So, so, so in your book, you, you take us from like prohibition back in the first part of the last century, you know, all the way up to the day and I thought it was very artfully done. So I wanted to read a little excerpt about about the way. Marijuana was viewed back then from way back in 1917 from, from your book, if I may.And so those said, the 1917 report from the Treasury Department noted that in Texas only Mexicans and sometimes Negroes and lower class whites smoked the marijuana for pleasure and warned that that drug crazed minorities could harm or assault upper class white women. I felt like this, you know, that sort of thinking still informs policy today and I felt like when movies like The Terrible [00:25:00]Truth and Reefer Madness, which you mentioned, the book came out, I felt like that was like media's way of locking arms with the government and echoing what they're saying.And you don't really get into too religion deeply. But I feel like the church also. Touched and agreed. Yes. Emily: So, so the church was responsible for paying for the production of the movie Reef for Madness. I don't which church it, it was, I don't remember, but it was funded by Evangelical Christians. There you go.There's your connection. Mm-hmm. . De'Vannon: And see, I don't know, like, I, I hate the fact that the church. I would've rather the church stand up and say, You know what? It's not for the government to enforce morality because God is not forced. He's always gave the children of Israel a choice. He never came down here and mandated things in the way that we're trying to mandate them.So why don't we back off and leave this whole morality [00:26:00] thing to the church instead? The church was like, Well, we like to control people. The government likes to control people, so why don't we see if we can control them all together? Hmm. So I Emily: collaborate. Oh my God, it's so true. And it's been so powerful, like for so long, for so long.But it's true, like can you legislate morality? I mean, like, that's just this eternal question and you know, you really, you really can't, you can't punish someone until they're good. It just doesn't work that way. You. De'Vannon: No, nobody responds to that. You know, our children don't. And I love that your kids are like, pretty much the same age as my two kids, which happen to be like Maine Coon mixed cats.You know, My oldest boys about is about to be six in March, and then my girl is threeOh, Emily: we have babies the same age. That's so funny. That's crazy. Wild. But it's true, like you can't make them be good through [00:27:00] fear or punishment like ever. Ever and . And then it just always makes things worse. It always makes things worse. And that's why like, I mean, that's why it's so hard oftentimes to have like rational discussions about things like drugs or religion because like people just get too emotionally involved and you kind of think like, you're gonna, you're gonna believe my way or I'm going to hurt you.Like I'm going to defend this to the point of violence. And it's just like, that's why I , some people get mad at me. Grassroots because they felt like I didn't take a firm enough stand, you know, either way. And some people also like seem to have a really hard, a hard, they seem to have some difficulty with differentiating between smoking pot and writing about pot as like a historical phenomenon.So like a lot of people just like make these really dumb jokes, like yeah, I bet you're using a lot. Grass when you're writing grassroots or whatever. And I was like, No. I was writing like a [00:28:00] deeply researched, like historical book based off of my PhD dissertation. Like, no, I wasn't high the whole time. Like, that's ridiculous.But people were upset with me because I wasn't taking firm enough stand. Like I wasn't coming out like very strongly as an activist for legalization or, or alternatively against it. I didn't make my, my political position clear enough. And I don't know if. Like in the same way you're saying like, Well who should legislate morality?You know, in the same way, I don't feel like history books necessarily have to be legislating morality, right? Like I don't feel like I needed to tell people what to believe. I just wanted to tell them what happened and how we got here. So that as things move forward and as we continue to watch this really like unique historical period evolve, we'll be more prepared to understand.The potential downsides that might occur or the potential benefits that might occur, and like try to maybe guide the process [00:29:00] more toward the benefits, like rather than the downsides. So it's, you know, I do feel like there's a real need to understand drugs in like a non-emotional, non hot take, non, like just understanding them as like a historical artifact where.Certain things have happened from 1917 to today to create the world we live in, and we should probably understand how we got here. And so I wrote a book about it, , and now we're talking about it. All right, , De'Vannon: just bring it full circle. I love it. And you're right, your book is very energetically neutral. It is very energetically like neutral.Yeah, I did pick up on that. And you know, most of you know historians, they just tell what happened and so I, you know, I was interviewing somebody else and I was, and he had gotten some reviews that kind of roughed his feathers and I was telling him, You know what, I'll tell you the same thing. Like Amazon and all these different book places don't.Perform mental health test [00:30:00] on people who go in there and leave reviews . So there's no tell on what you're gonna get, so Emily: please gimme the most recent report from your therapist before you post on this review. . Oh my God. The best review I got was someone was really mad that I was mean to Nancy Reagan, and they were like, it's not like she committed tax fraud.Nancy Reagan's not that bad. And I was like, Is that your bar? Like tax fraud? Or? So that was everyone else's reviews on Amazon are almost all from my friends, so those are all nice that Perfect. They're all the friends. I ask like, Please leave an Amazon review for my book. Thank you. De'Vannon: Hey, nothing like that inner circle chosen family, baby.Oh baby. That person commented on the tax fraud, though, probably commits tax fraud and they were projecting that. Oh my Emily: god. 100%. De'Vannon: Yeah. . So I wanted to talk about Atlanta 1976 because. [00:31:00] I felt like Miss, Miss Marsha Sard, and I have to admit when I read that name immediately, Andrew DeMar Shinard from Rent from the MusicalOh my God. It came to my mind and I had to go look it up. I was like, Is there a relation here today, tomorrow for me? What's going on ? So, but there is no relation. So it's, it's Emily: inside a gay boy. No, I can't unsee it. I can't unsee it. De'Vannon: and Atlanta especially. Cause my boyfriend is from Atlanta, you know, from that area.And so Hills, well todo neighborhood. Marsha is you know, she's walks into like her teens having this party and everyone's. you know, paring it up. Her and her husband go out fine, like the weed butts and everything like that. And, and then she goes run snitch to all the other parents because of course there was other teenage there.And we all know [00:32:00] snitches get stitches, y'all. And so what I documented was the parents' reactions usually that the parents' reactions ran the gamut from shock, confusion, indignation, concern, denial, and hostility. Now in the book, you, you know, this woman is like, Slated to be a Democrat. Mm-hmm. . And so that really, really shocked me.And and her, her emotions. I don't feel like those emotions have changed over the years. I feel like that's the same way people react to Dave. Would you agree? Emily: Yeah, I think, I think you're onto something there. Yeah. Like it, it was her, her politics are really interesting. So Keith, she goes by Keith, which again is kind of.You have to get, wrap your head around this woman, this like mom of three who goes by Keith. And then it's hard cuz I'm also writing about Keith Strop, the founder of Normal, the National Organization for the reform of marijuana laws, which are like, you know, going gangbusters at this time. [00:33:00]So there's a lot of Keith's, you know, so keep the Keiths straight in your mind.But so Keith Shart is this mom She has a PhD in British literature. She's not teaching, but her husband is at Emory, and so she's like home with these kids. So like I see her as being really smart. probably pretty bored, right? Being home with kids, like when you have a PhD and you're clearly like a life of the mind kind of person.Being home with little kids can be like really boring and you can have like maybe a lot of leftover energy. And so she throws this like backyard birthday party for her 13 year old daughter. And like the kids are acting weird and she's kind of freaking out and she sees like they're up in their bedroom, like looking out in the backyard, her and her husband and they see the lighters flicker in the bushes, but they assume it's cigarettes.But the kids are like really acting funny. And so once everybody leaves, they go into the backyard and they're searching around and they [00:34:00] find. Roaches. And they also find like, like alcohol containers, right? So the kids aren't just smoke smoking pot, they're, they're drinking too. , The scandal, the scandal 13, I mean 13 is young.Like for, like, I was not, I was not playing those games at 13, but I understand that my experience is not the experience of everyone. And, and now I'm like, as a mom, I'm kind of like, Oh, if I caught Henry doing that, like I'd be probably be pretty pissed. But but anyway, so she. She goes into like hardcore activist mode, like right away, you know, she was like, Boom.And she is buoyed by the concepts of. Second wave feminism that are like really prominent at the time where you do consciousness raising groups and you get together with people who are sharing your same experience and you talk about it, right? Because the personal is political and you try to figure out a way to change society for the better.Like that is very much like the kind of social [00:35:00] milu that shoe hard is coming from in, in 76 in Atlanta. Because remember, like Atlanta's pretty liberal at this time. Like Jimmy Carter is governor and he is running for president. You know, like it's the bicentennial. Everybody's like super patriotic, right?It's an interesting time. So she gets together with all the other parents and she's like, Our kids are smoking pot. This seems to be an issue like this. This. This is, this is something we should probably pay attention to. And she kind of blames it on the fact that for the past three years, more and more states had steadily been decriminalizing marijuana possession.So it started in Oregon in 73, but by 76, I think there were probably like,Probably like six, five or six states by that point that had decriminalized, right? Georgia wasn't one of them, but others did. And so there's this burgeoning drug paraphernalia industry, like basically just like today, this was happening in the mid, the early [00:36:00] 1970s where like. A semi-legal cannabis marketplace was taking shape in America.And when a marketplace builds and expands, more people tend to utilize it. So more people were using pot, more people were smoking pot, and then it was trickling down and it was getting to kids. So like Keith Shoe hard's, daughter 13 found some pot and was smoking it at her birthday party. And like that made shard really upset.So even though she was a Democrat and she was a liberal, She was really opposed to what the liberal agenda had pushed, which was decriminalization. So she starts basically a nationwide grassroots army of parents to overturn decriminalization laws and kind of stop the burgeoning paraphernalia industry.And it just so happens that in 1984 years later, when Ronald Reagan gets elected, he takes their concept. Nationalizes [00:37:00] it further and then turns it into federal policy. So it was the parent movement that gave us basically the entire concept of just say no. So yeah, the 1980s were birthed in the 1970s in Atlanta, Georgia in 1976.De'Vannon: Right. And right. Thank you for breaking that down so beautifully. And I, and I felt like from, from the way that you wrote, you really, really wanted people to know the importance that small community groups like this actually, the impact that they have on federal policy, not as, so that we don't undervalue this or underestimate.Totally. Emily: And so it's amazing. Well, when you tap into a zeitgeist like that, like, like what, what Shoe hard and other people in Atlanta tapped into was something that And ended up people were feeling nationwide. And that's the exact same thing that was happening with medical marijuana laws. And it's the exact same thing that's happening with legalization laws now.I mean, people are tapping into like it's a zeitgeist straight now. You know? Like more like I think Maryland, where I live is, I think we're [00:38:00] voting to legalize this. I think we're voting to legalize next month. Like it's movement, baby. It's movement. De'Vannon: May the force be with you? May Emily: the force be, I think it'll pass pretty easily.I think it'll pass pretty easily. Now it's just a matter of what the market will look like, what we'll actually do with it in the. Which is crazy. It's a De'Vannon: step. The thing that stood out to me about Mrs. Manas, was she, she, she kept saying like, it was like, for the children, you, the children, half of the children, you know, I'm getting like flashbacks to one division, you know, for Disney when they're, you know, her and vision, you know, Wanda Envision, you know, wanting to max him off.Yeah. Marvel, you know, I'm like, geeking out right now. But , they kept saying that thing for the children and there weren't any fucking children. Because she had, she had put 'em all to sleep, but she, I, I was like, Okay, I wonder if she asked the children what they want or was she just using them to enforce her agenda every time?I see like a [00:39:00] politician, especially like, I mean, you know, especially like the Republican and stuff like that, wanting to enact negative policies on behalf of veterans. For instance, me being a military veteran, I always, I'm like, I don't want you to do that. Like everything you're doing, I don't want you to do.You didn't ask me . So, but they're like, Our veterans wouldn't want my choice. Yeah. no. And so, I don't know. That stood out to me like right, like the children, but they don't. I don't know what to call that. What do you call that when people do that? Are they, are they calling themselves doing it in the name of righteousness?Are they getting, Now you're a parent now, so you have this feeling. Would you go and do something this adverse on behalf of your children without consulting their opinion FirstAnd I don't understand Emily: that they prefer that. Right. They would love to, they'd love to gimme their opinions. Right. But you know, I. I think you're to a really important question, right? Which is like, [00:40:00] where do the rights of children end and the rights of adults begin, right? So like when, when Keith, Shar, and every and everybody else in the parent movement is saying, Oh my God.We have to repeal decriminalization laws because of the children. Like do it for the children. The children are being harmed by these drugs. But then that transforms from like, we have to have these laws for the children to, We have to excessively punish. Adults for drug possession or dealing or whatever else excessively punish them.Like especially after the 1986 Drug Abuse Act, right? When you're getting mandatory minimums of 5, 10, 15 years when we're locking up millions of people for drug possession. Like where does the rights of children end And like the range of adults in and the pushback to that. But what about the children line of thought did finally start to come in the nineties, right?[00:41:00] When marijuana legalization efforts dovetailed with the gay rights movement in what I think is just one of the most fascinating, like historical co ever, right? So in California, in San Francisco, as AIDS is starting to. Decimate the gay population. You have a couple of activists, including Dennis Perran and Brownie Mary Rath Fund, whose real name is Mary Jane, which is crazy.They're using marijuana to like give to these aids patients who, like doctors don't wanna touch, nobody wants to get near them. No one knows what to do. No one knows how to treat hiv. It's brand new. Right? And Brownie Mary and Dennis Perran are. Have a, have a pot and infuse brownie, like you're gonna get your appetite back, Your nausea is gonna chill out.You're gonna feel pretty good. You're gonna have some energy. You can like go to the [00:42:00] bank. You can do like an errand right before you die. A horribly of aids like my God. Right? So they're saying, where did the rights of children end? Yes. We kept children so safe from pot that like by the early eighties, like no one is smoking pot anymore and we're locking.Tens of thousands of people, right? Like every month, right? Okay, great. We've done it. We won the drug war. But now it turns out this substance does have some medical utility for a patient group that is increasingly becoming like really sympathetic. You know, like cuz you have, I mean Arthur Ash contracts, hiv God, that little boy got it through like a blood transfusion or something.So you start to like have like really sympathetic feelings towards, Oh, Princess Diana visits the HIV clinic in the San Francisco General Hospital. Right? Like suddenly it becomes really sympathetic and laws start to change, right? Suddenly adults rights, especially like adults dying of AIDS and cancer, like their rights become much more important than protecting children from pot.And then, [00:43:00] Can kind of move like fast forward into the two thousands. 2010, the legalization movement joins with the social justice movement. So in 2010, Michelle Alexander publishes her book The New Jim Crow, Mass Incarceration in the Age of Color Blindness, which is canonical at this point. Canonical, I tell you, and like it is all.The effects of locking up nonviolent offenders, the vast majority of which are black men. Like, well, what have we done in America By locking up millions of people, more people, more black people are incarcerated in the United States than in South Africa at the height of apartheid. Like what effects does that have culturally, socially, economically?It has effects. And she lays them out and we're all like, Oh my God. Now we know. And laws started to change right after that, right? In 2012, you have the first states legalized Colorado and Washington by combining legalization [00:44:00] with calls for social justice, right? If cannabis is the source of massive amounts of black incarceration, legalized cannabis, right?That's one way to like act on social justice, and it was also legalized through. Outright calls for generating tax revenue, right? Like here is something that we can legalize and tax the be Jesus out of. And not only are we like doing good on social justice initiatives, but we're also gonna make a boatload of money.Like it's a total win-win at the moment. And that's basically, again, arguments for the rights of adults, right? Should we, should we incarcerate X number of million of people, millions of people for cannabis possession? So again, like. Argument for its children's rights, which was like so immensely powerful in the 1970s and eighties has now I would say, really been pushed to the back burner by almost three decades of really concerted and very powerful and very influential activism for adults rights to access cannabis, [00:45:00] for medical, and then social justice and economic initiatives.De'Vannon: And that's the tea. Y'all, Y'all have it? Emily . Emily: There's, there's 50 years of cannabis history guys. Woo. . De'Vannon: And, you know, I work with you know, so many people right now, and I, and I, I love how you, I feel like your book is almost like a, a user's manual for people who wanna get into this fight. You know, you're giving historical context, you're giving advice and everything.And so You know, I'm thinking about, you know, a friend of mine if her name is iFit Harvey, she runs the people of Color Collective. People of color, Psychedelic Collective, which is based out of New York City. And you know, and I, and I work with them, you know, I just did an interview, you know, for, I gave them an interview the other day and we were talking about like you know, marijuana, you know, the way it's, you know, criminalized here in Louisiana where I live versus where one of their.[00:46:00]Satellite locations is in Oregon, in Portland. And so, you know, things like this are very helpful you know, for young people cuz these people are really, really like young who have started this, you know, psychedelic collective and everything like that. And so I think, yeah. Right. I think books like this are so like, useful.So we're nearing the end of our hour and so I just wanted to mention. You mentioned normal earlier. I wanna tell people that stands for the I think you said, at the National Organization for the Reform rather than repe of marijuana laws. And then we'll go right into talking about like your your lessons and things like that.And, and we may just pick like one or two that that's important to you. But and so another little, a final ex sweep from the book. I'm channeling my inner Bugs Bunny, so an ex. From the book, it says normal, you know, or ML argue that marijuana smokers or consumers not deviance and deserve the same rights to protection and [00:47:00] safety as any other group.Including access to the drug without pollutants or contaminants. A competitive marketplace free from monopolies and conglomerates, and especially freedom from harassment by the poll lease. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. felt like a, a Southern Sunday. GodEmily: I love it. I want you to record the audio book. That's great. I love it. . De'Vannon: Oh, I'll do it. I love getting on this microphone right here and do it. I did my own audio book. Oh, that's awesome. And so I wanted to bring that up because like you had normal fighting for it. You had Miss, Miss Minnaar fighting against it back then.Like you say in the book, we have the same thing now because I don't want people to wrestling their laurels and get so comfortable thinking that it's a home run. It's a clean slate. You know? We must stay vigilant. Emily: Mm. Yes, totally. I think that's, I mean, it, it does [00:48:00] feel like to me, I feel like. Pot becomes the scariest drug around when there's no other boogie in.So in like the 1970s, early 1970s when the first decriminalization laws were being passed, we're also kind of going through a heroin epidemic, right? And right now we've been going through the opioid epidemic for like, whoa, 30 years or so, . But it's kind of coming to its natural. At the same time that the legal cannabis marketplace is really starting to heat up and when opioids become like, when there's no like, like meth was a boogieman for a while.Crack was a boogieman for a while, but opioids have been a bo the boogieman for like 30 years. And if that starts to tamp down, if we start to feel less scared about that and there's like sort of like a void in like the drug boogieman cuz you know, we always need a drug boogieman. We're America, we need a drug boogieman and.Pot. Well sometimes I think come back and fill that [00:49:00] role. Like there, there could be widespread rejection of the legal marketplace. I mean, in certain places, right? Like in Massachusetts that legalized. However long ago, some communities don't want it, and they are allowed to say within that state's jurisdiction.We do not want any cannabis marketplaces within our community borders. So there's gonna be some nimbyism and there's going to be some nimbyism like, yes, in my backyard to it. But again, it's, you don't know what's like, we don't know what's going to happen. This is a brand new marketplace that could bust its boots like.I mean, it's been around for a decade now, which is amazing. But things are gonna get big fast and if people don't like it, it could very well turn, turn back around. I mean, that's not impossible. It's not, it's improbable, but not impossible. Mm-hmm. . De'Vannon: So what I'll do in the interest of time, I'll just read the title of each of the six letter , then people can go and buy the book to get the advice that you have in there.Do it. I think that and after I [00:50:00] read the titles, and I'll let you have our last word. . Which is a, which is another a page I borrowed from the book of Joy read because she she always gives her guests, you know, like the last word and everything like that. And so I thought you a good idea. I'm very inspired by that woman, and so, oh, I love it.So, lesson one, make your argument as sympathetic as possible. The lesson two, it's all about the money. lesson three. Be prepared to watch your progress disappear. That's the most shocking one for me and in my inten, in my opinion, the most sobering, less than four. Don't rely too heavily on the White House, and she means over multiple administrations.And then less than five, respect your opposition, less than six. Keep a sense of perspective, which is also a statement of humility. So her website is emily din.com, Social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, India, [00:51:00] Instagram, medium. Oh podcast. You can listen to Emily conduct interviews, new books.Networks has a Drugs Addiction and Recovery podcast. This book is grass Roots. And then she already mentioned the other one she has coming out. So with that, I'm gonna shut my cock up. And any last , anything that you would like to say and just take it away, darling. Emily: Oh, My gratitude is to you for, for having me, but also for bringing your message and your love, and your light and your spirit to the people.I am grateful to you and for all the work you do. So thank you very much. De'Vannon: All right. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. Emily: Don't eat Fentanyl Candy .De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you [00:52:00] can find more information and resources at Sex Drugs and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon, and it's been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is gonna be right. 

[Explicit Language] Eric Herschmann warned Trump about the top secret files. Trump knows he broke the law. Judge Dearie pressures Trump on declassification. Tiny Trump's weirdo rally had a creepy Q-themed musical score. We get letters! Tucker Carlson joins Matt Walsh's crusade against Children's Hospital. Fake brochures given to migrants. Texas sheriff launches investigation into DeSantis. Republican Jesus. Trump trolled Joe Biden but it backfired. With Buzz Burbank, music by The Metal Byrds, Seth Adam, and more!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

As entrepreneurs, we tend to isolate ourselves from other business owners. This lack of connection can prevent you from adding as many doors as you could be.  Join property management growth expert, Jason Hull as he shares one of DoorGrow's best strategies for adding doors: the Neighbor Strategy. This strategy will help you form mutually beneficial relationships and alliances with neighboring property management companies that feed you doors. You'll Learn… [01:44] The Issues that Come With Being an Entrepreneur [04:29] Someone's Garbage is Your Golden Prospect [05:50] Finding Two Kinds of Property Management Partners [08:47] The 3 Steps for Turning a COLD Lead into a WARM Lead [14:12] Why a Rising Tide Raises All Ships [16:47] Growing Your Business Without Internet Marketing Tweetables “The problem that exists with entrepreneurs is that we are not focused a lot of times on connecting with other entrepreneurs, so a lot of times what we experience as entrepreneurs in our journey is some sort of isolation.” “I think entrepreneurs, after we taste freedom, we become unemployable. We're just not gonna be great employees because we want to control our destiny and once we have freedom and once we have fulfillment, we then want to contribute.” “So by giving out some referrals, you're creating a partnership, you're creating people that are going to probably feel obligated to reciprocate and send similar referrals back to you.” “You could be adding 5, 10, 20 doors a month just from all the referral partners that you've built using the neighbor strategy from other property managers.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] These relationships can be very strategically effective and they can, once you've built up enough of them, that alone could be enough doors coming in every month that keeps you fat and happy. You could be adding 5, 10, 20 doors a month just from all the referral partners that you've built using the neighbor strategy from other property managers. All right. Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers to the # DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently. Then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income.   [00:00:56] At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry. Eliminate the BS, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.    [00:01:21] So, this is a special episode because I'm gonna share with you one of our secret tools. It's so simple, you will kick yourself after hearing it, but it's one of our most effective strategies for getting clients to add doors. And what I find is very few property managers throughout the U.S. or beyond are doing this strategy, which seems crazy. So let's talk about the problem. The problem that exists with entrepreneurs is that we are not focused a lot of times on connecting with other entrepreneurs, so a lot of times what we experience as entrepreneurs in our journey is some sort of isolation. Like we get feedback, negative feedback, constantly from the world if you're an entrepreneur personality type that you should just not change things because you're making everyone uncomfortable. Entrepreneurs are people that move society forward, take risks, change things, and school is not built for that. The school system is built for people to be good employees, not business owners, so in the majority of the people out there, they primarily want safety and certainty. This is a higher priority or value for most people than freedom or fulfillment or contribution or support. I call those the four reasons for entrepreneurs. We care more about freedom and fulfillment than we do about having safety and certainty than having a stable, safe 9-5 job.   [00:02:46] And some of you may have just felt that pressure and eventually gave up that stable 9-5 job to take a risk to start a business, maybe it's your property management business. I remember taking that leap. It's a scary leap, but it's a leap that once you take, you never want to go back because you experience freedom and you taste freedom and then I think entrepreneurs after we taste freedom, we become unemployable. We're just not gonna be great employees because we want to control our destiny and once we have freedom and once we have fulfillment, we then want to contribute. We want to make a difference out there. We want to benefit other people. I get to experience a really awesome or decent level of freedom and fulfillment in my position at DoorGrow and what I do at DoorGrow. I love getting to coach, mentor, and support, and help business owners grow their businesses. And once we start to experience that fulfillment and freedom in our business, the next thing we want to do... it's not enough just to make money and just to feel like we can do what we want to do. We want to make a difference in the world. So it becomes outward-focused.    [00:03:53] We want to contribute. So I'm going to contribute something, I think significant today that I think everyone in the industry should hear this and should know. I recommend you share this episode with every property manager that neighbors you or that you know, and the title of this episode is "The Neighbor Strategy." This is all about the neighbor strategy and how you can help grow your property management business by being a good neighbor, right? And connecting with your neighbors, so that means other property managers. So let me share with you this strategy, and it's really simple. It's really simple.   [00:04:29] So the idea is... here's the problem: the problem is you're not connected to these other property managers. So you get a phone call and somebody says, "Hey, do you manage in Tucson, Arizona?" for example. And you're like, "No, I only do Phoenix-- downtown," or something like that. "I only do Phoenix, Arizona." And they say, "Okay, cool. Goodbye," right? So what you just did is you took perfectly good gold, right? this great lead, and you took it and it's not something you can mine. It's not reachable by you. It's not near where you cover, so you just threw in the trash. Well, I guarantee if the table were turned and you knew that there was a property manager and you were in Phoenix and they were in Tucson and somebody called them up and said, "Hey, do you manage in Phoenix?" and they said, "Actually, no." And they said, "Okay. Alright. Oh, cool. Okay, bye," you'd be like, oh my gosh, I would love to have that, right? That's gold for me, but they just threw it in the garbage. So real simple, the strategy, the neighbor strategy as I call it is to reach out to all the property management companies that are your neighbors that get potential referral opportunities that they could give to you and be their friend and connect with them and to establish a neighbor referral relationship.   [00:05:50] So there's two types of neighbors that you're looking for. So the obvious would be neighbors that are outside of your market. These are property management companies that do the same thing as you, perhaps, maybe they target other niches. Maybe you do single-family residential, maybe they do as well, but they're outside of the market that you geographically cover. So it'd be reaching out to these neighbors and saying, "Hey, if you get a lead, blah, blah, blah, like send 'em our way. If it's outside your market and it's in the area we cover, send 'em to us," conversely, you doing the same for them, right? And creating these strategic alliances and these relationships... really obvious. I have clients that are getting doors every month, just handed to them. You know, one of the members of my team who has a property management business just got five units just a month or two ago, handed to her just by a neighboring property management company that was one of our clients that I say, "Hey, you two should connect. Your markets neighbor each other," and they got connected, and now they're sending business back and forth all the time.    [00:06:57] Now the other category, the second group that you also can connect with also a very effective group are not people outside your market. It's actually property managers inside your market that are in your market, but they do a different niche or niche of property management than you do. They target a different niche, right? A different segment, and what I mean by that is they're focused on a different category or type of property management than you are. So say you do single-family residential and small multi, which is typical for a lot of my clients. You could reach out to commercial management companies in your market.   [00:07:35] You could reach out to association management companies in your market. You could reach out to storage unit and mobile home park management companies in your market because I guarantee that, especially associations, maybe commercial, they are getting requests. They're fielding requests occasionally for residential property management or the type of management that you do, and they just throw it in the garbage. They might have a referral partner, or they might say, "Well, you could talk to this company," but you want to be top of mind for them and create those relationships. And so it's real simple: you just call them up and you share this gold versus garbage analogy that I just shared with you just say, "Hey, sometimes I get this thing that comes to me, and then I just throw in the garbage and I know it's perfectly good gold that somebody else would want.   [00:08:27] And they'll be like, "Yeah, me." And I'm sure you have this situation happen gold versus garbage. You explain the scenario again like somebody calls you up and you're like, "Hey. I would love to have that. Like, we should totally be friends. We should totally be friends," and they're gonna laugh, and they're gonna say, "Yeah, you're right. Like we should do this," right? Really simple. Share the gold versus garbage. Now I'm gonna take this even to the next level and share one of our secrets in our program. This is a secret of how you take a cold lead-- this is a cold lead typically coming in-- and how you convert it into a warm lead before you send it to them, and it changes the close rate on the lead from 10%, which is typical on a cold lead to 90%, maybe as a warm lead. It converts it into a warm lead. The difference between a cold lead and a warm lead is trust, its nurture. And nurturing those through trust so that they're hot enough to close. So here's how you convert this lead that came to you cold asking for property management that you can't service...   [00:09:28] So here is the formula. It's three simple steps to ensure that there is a high percentage close rate that's gonna happen. So the first step is Capture: capture the lead. That's the first step. The second step after you capture the lead, which means get their phone number, get their name, get their property info, whatever. Capture all the information. "Hey, you know what? I don't service there, but let me get your info. I have something really cool. I'm gonna share with you." Capture the lead. That's step one. Step two is share the information of the other company like, "This other company. Here's their name. Here's their phone number. You should talk to them." now, if you really want this to be effective, here's the third step, and you want to make sure that every referral partner neighbor in the neighbor strategy you create, you wanna share with them: do these three steps. Explain it just like this or share this video with them. Just share this video or podcast episode with them and say, "I'm gonna send you something super cool. Here's what I'm thinking. This dude named Jason, he runs a company called DoorGrow and he shared this strategy and I thought it was really clever, and you should hear him explain it."    [00:10:37] So the third step, this is the most important is you amplify. This is how you convert it from a cold lead to a warm lead. So amplification, the way you amplify this, or you convert it into a warm lead is you add trust. So example: I get a lead. I can't service it and I'm like, "Well, let me get your info. Let me give you a name and number of a company. And let me tell you a little bit about them. This property manager, his name is, you know, Fred Flintstone over in, Rubble America or to this city that you need. He is amazing. He is the best property manager in that market. If I had a rental property over there, that's where I would send it. I highly recommend you talk to, you know, Barney Rubble or Fred Flintstone," you get the idea, right? I'm using the Flintstones as an example, but you talk them up. Like you say "They are the go-to one that you should be working within that market. We don't cover it, but if you're gonna work with somebody and you have a property over there, that's the one you should be working with. They've got good reviews. They've got a great process. They have a great business coach. They work with DoorGrow. They're really amazing." Whatever you can say about them to talk them up and help qualify them in the prospect's mind as the best company for them to go with.    [00:11:52] So then they're going to go, "Wow. That other company turned me down, won't service me, but recommended this other one, and I wasn't even sure if I was going to go with them, but they talked this company up highly. I'm gonna talk to 'em." Now because you did steps one and two capture and share there's two opportunities for this deal to happen. The owner client may reach out to the property manager. So there's that potential opportunity, or you then capture that lead, right? You capture their info and you're gonna text it to this buddy or friend, this business owner and send it over to them. And say, "Hey, I just gotta lead. Get on this." Why? Because leads are good for maybe about the first five to 10 minutes after the first 10- 15 minutes, most lead conversion rates drop like 80%. They drop significantly because they're just gonna call the next company and move on, so by giving them the phone number they can call, they can call the property manager. Hopefully, you're answering your phones. And if you're the recipient of this referral, you're gonna answer the call right away. Second, you're gonna get a text message. So hopefully you get the text message and they see that they call even before. So they're like, "Hey, I just texted over to my friend, Fred Flinstone who managed these properties over there, or Bonnie Rubble, his associate. And they'll probably reach out right away, but here's their information, so you can contact them right away.    [00:13:08] Two opportunities, right? Two ways that this can get to them, this referral and this relationship can happen. That then builds goodwill with this other property manager. It creates friendship, there's an alliance there, and they're going to feel a natural need to reciprocate in the future. So by giving out some referrals, you're creating partnership, you're creating people that are going to probably feel obligated to reciprocate and send similar referrals back to you. And so this is the neighbor strategy. So I hope you like this. It is a super simple idea, but we've been sharing this with clients and it's just one little thing to add to the cool referral engines and warm lead strategies that we use at DoorGrow to help our clients grow. This is more of a long game, but you can go and reach out to-- strategically-- and we have scripts for this and we give our clients lists of property managers in their market and outside their market, they could reach out to, so we support our clients in this strategy, but you could very easily do this on your own if you want to, without DoorGrow's help, you can do this on your own, and I really believe a rising tide raises all ships.    [00:14:15] Well, not necessarily some ships won't raise when the tide raises because they're just sitting on the bedrock. They're sitting on the dirt, they're sitting on the sand and that tide goes up... some are going to sink. And I'm cool with that. Like the shittiest, suckiest property management companies should sink, but if you are one of those and you wanna patch up the holes or you're an awesome company and you want to be bigger and better reach out to DoorGrow, we would love to support you in this. This is just one of several strategies that we use with our clients so that they can build this awesome referral engine and funnel of business coming to them. And the cool thing about the neighbor strategy is you can have a hundred different companies. We've got clients in Florida that are getting people in New York and, I think Michigan, there's some sort of connection between Michigan and people going to Florida or having property in Florida. I don't know, and some of these property managers might have clients right now that they're servicing in their market that are in your market that they could connect you to and say, "Hey, I've actually got a client right now that has some units in your market." and so these relationships can be very strategically effective and they can, once you've built up enough of them, that alone could be enough doors coming in every month that keeps you fat and happy. You could be adding 5, 10, 20 doors a month just from all the referral partners that you've built using the neighbor strategy from other property managers.   [00:15:37] Not only that, you may find a mentor, you may find a friend, you may find somebody that you can support and mentor yourself, but I really believe 'a rising tide raises all ships' is a true phrase. Or some sink, right? I mentioned that. Reach out, create these relationships, and let's grow the entire industry. There is no scarcity in property management right now. In the U.S... I was talking to an Australian, did a lot of research, one of the coaches I recently hired and he did a lot of research on property management in his own market. So he was ready to get on a call with me. And when I explained to him that in the U.S., Only about 30% of rental properties are professionally managed and single-family residential. While Australia, he's like, it's so commonplace. It's like 80%. He was blown away. He was like, "That's crazy. There's so much opportunity in the U.S. So much opportunity." There is no scarcity, but they're not looking online. So if you're trying to figure out: "How can I get more business and create more market share instead of fight over that 30% that are already using property managers and try and get them away from another company, which generally never happens. How can I grow my business faster without doing any advertising without doing internet marketing?" Come talk to DoorGrow.    [00:16:53] This is what we help our clients do. One of our clients added 310 doors in the last year. That would be impossible. No matter how much advertising he did, he wouldn't have had the bandwidth. He wouldn't have the sales team that could handle that many leads, do all that follow-up, but warm leads close, easier, faster and more efficiently. And he did that with only five or six realtor referral partners, but he used our strategies and he contacted a thousand, right, just to find those. He had to kiss a few frogs, but we've got some really effective strategies. It's not what you think. It's not the typical way as people try and get referrals. You probably get some occasionally. Here's the thing, the secret there is that nobody wants property management. Nobody's actively, generally looking for it usually, unless they're at the very end of the sales cycle and they're searching online and they're the worst, the most price sensitive. How do you capture that 70% that don't think they need it, but they probably do, you can solve their problems and are not looking for it? That's what we share at DoorGrow. So, one of our top strategies, so reach out to us. We'd love to help you grow your business. And tell us in the comments, if you started doing this, if you've got some good neighbor partners, we'd love to hear about it. And if you hear about this episode and come on board as a client, let us know. We'd love to hear that this has been helpful for you. And until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone.    [00:18:12] You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!    [00:18:39] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

This week, the Acid Capitalist is restored to his spiritual home, Blanc Bleu and boy is The Alchemist on form ! He's dug up some ancient manuscripts from 2007 from the legend, James Dines, the original gold bull. The foolish reject what they see, the wise reject what they think and accept what they see. Except, the Acid Cap is about to do the unpardonable and reject the wisdom that defined his hedge fund career.He's been looking at the Ruble. He refers to it dismissively as the Barney Rubble. The Barney has eliminated all of its losses since the shock of the unexpected military campaign against Ukraine.  Men in Suits are adamant that this marks a profound moment in economic history. That Vlad the Bad is Vlad the Economic genius.The decision to peg to gold, a modern day gold standard, has many in the financial community proclaiming this as the moment Russia defeated the proxy economic war. But more than that, they claim it as a great pivot in history. Where Russia goes, we will follow. Huh??The Acid Cap is having none of this. The screen price of the Barney is paint taping propaganda. It doesn't trade except by invitation. It's the preserve of the monetary authorities in Russia and those shameful nations that continue to dance with the Bear. Russian citizens certainly can't sell their Barneys, foreign nationals still holding Russian assets can't sell the rally and, heck, even Russian exporters must return their dollars to the kleptocracy.A gold standard is feasible in Russia because they've defranchised their citizens but elsewhere, democracies rejected the rigours of gold a century ago. The Wizard of Oz captures this poignantly. In the 19th century it was the elites that determined the outcome of elections. The lion depicts the mighty William Bryan Jennings, the populist presidential candidate who ran 2x and lost. The elites robbed him of his courage...Gold ain't neutral. It favours the creditor over the debtor, forces the pain on the We, the People. With no vote, the people back then had to take it on the chin. When Treasury Secretart, Mellon, said purge the system of its rottenness in 1929, he was set to crucify the populace on the cross of gold. Thankfully, saner heads prevailed and the system was de-weaponised within 3 years but not before adult unemployment had surged beyond 20% and the banking sector had been bankrupted. The Capitalist loves gold as an investment, as a store of wealth,  but he love's the people more...Zoltan, another monetary wizard, is discussed. He's one of the most influential financial seers. When he speaks, the whales of the market listen. He believes that the dollar's days are inevitably numbered, that the currency of China is set to supplant the global hedgemon of the $. The Capitalist is having none of it. But rather than bicker, he's established a magical line of clarity. Today, you need 6.3 yuan to buy a dollar. The yuan has been the strongest currency. If the yuan appreciates further, which is to say below 6, the Capitalist is ready to doth his cap to the mighty wizard and proclaim his own Muppetry. And finally, the fixed pegs of Hong Kong and Saudi are put under the spotlight. Nothing lasts forever and the days of Hong Kong's dollar peg seem fast running out. The capitalist describes how you can wager a billion dollar bet against the Honkers and your max loss would be $12m whereas your upside is unlimited. Future George Soros wannabes are lining up to take a shot. And just why should the Chinese authorities protect what they see as an anachorism from the past, a potent symbol of when China was poor ?The Saudi? We might need to wait longer. But, he proclaims, the price of energy falls over the course of history, you want to be a long term consumer, not producer, the Saudi peg violates this rule, it will do a Honkers one day, just not yet. And remember, Joy is our Energy... 

We interrupt this podcast for a very special episode where the gang talks harrowing children's television of the eighties and nineties with Dave and Steve from the deservedly popular Scarred for Life books and stage shows.As regular listeners know, for the true crime happening literally down our roads, the most upsetting moments of our childhood were televised. Moments like Captain Planet meeting Hitler, Nutsy doing the Green Mile in Lady and The Tramp, Barney Rubble's suicide attempt, teatime lynching in Scarf Jack, Noseybonk, and the unexpectedly downbeat conclusions to Blake's 7, Dinosaurs and Denver the Last Dinosaur. And Ghostwatch. Bloody hell, Ghostwatch. We also talk about the triggering effect of News Reports, which were frequently so apocalyptic I found myself hyperventilating about Princess Anne getting married. We also learn what Gareth likes to watch on the internet when his wife is in bed. Didn't believe those stories about Mother Seddons, did you?  Fee fie foe fum...You can learn more about Scarred for Life here, buy volume one here and buy volume two here.They also have some live shows coming up:·         Wigan, February 17th ·         Harrogate, February 25th ·         York, May 21st  You can reach us on email everyonediesinsunderland@gmail.com, on Twitter at @everyonediespod, on Facebook and Instagram. Our theme music is usually the song “Steady Away” by Pete Dilley and can be found on his album Half-truths and Hearsay which you can/should buy/stream here: ttps://petedilley.bandcamp.com/album/half-truths-and-hearsay  But this week it isn't. “Public sex versus social skills versus gunboats, giants and bands that kill”

This week the Agents are joined by a returning guest, song-writer, singer and multi-instrumentalist David Sawyer + plenty of the usual shenanigans. Music on this week's program: Barney Rubble's Fit of Jealousy (I love you Wilma) performed by Jessie Burnett and written by David Sawyer John Bullard's tune, written and performed by David Sawyer Nettie's Frog-Gigging Kick-a-poo, written and performed by David Sawyer John Bullard's tune, performed by Michelle Paine Bonaparte's March, traditional, performed by Eugene Knapik We love to hear from you. Email us anytime: theagency.podcast@gmail.com    

Allan M. Brandt is a professor of the history of science at Harvard and author of The Cigarette Century: The Rise, Fall, and Deadly Persistence of the Product That Defined America. He discusses the tobacco industry's 20th-century campaign to make its addictive and deadly product somehow acceptable — and its 21st-century campaign to do it all again.* FULL TRANSCRIPT *GARFIELD: Welcome to Bully Pulpit. That was Teddy Roosevelt, I'm Bob Garfield with Episode 6: Crime of the Century.OLCZAK: The prime cause of harm generated by the smoking is an outcome of the combustion. Okay? When you burn the cigarette, when you burn the tobacco you release the thousands of the chemicals. Many of those chemicals, they are very bad for the human body. If you eliminate the combustion, you actually can achieve a very, very significant reduction in exposure to the toxicants.GARFIELD: In our last episode, we heard from Philip Morris International CEO Jacek Olczak as he boasted about Philip Morris's plan to convert half of its business to non-combustible tobacco products by the year 2025 — a strategy that impresses Wall Street and part of the public-health community, but to others is merely reminiscent of a century of Big Tobacco manipulation, cynicism and fatal lies. In that story we heard briefly from Allan Brandt, professor of the history of science at Harvard and author of The Cigarette Century: The Rise, Fall and Deadly Persistence of the Product That Defined America. This week, we return to the professor and the subject of the Cigarette Century, so deadly and corrupt.Allan, welcome to Bully Pulpit.BRANDT: Thanks so much for having me.GARFIELD: The tobacco industry has a long and dark history, going back at least to the early 50s when the evidence of smoking's dangers became an existential threat to cigarette sales. Can you tell me what the research was at that turning point?BRANDT: There'd been a lot of research going all the way back to the middle of the 19th century about the possible harms of smoking, but there wasn't fully substantiated knowledge, I would argue, til right around 1950. But then things changed quickly and radically because a group of early epidemiologists, both in England and the United States, began to study smokers and what happened to their health, and they began to study lung cancer patients and what their smoking behaviors had been. And they came up with incredibly robust and important findings that were published around 1950, '52 and three, more studies by 1954. And all of them reached one absolute conclusion, which was that smoking was actually a cause of lung cancer and likely other diseases that would be studied subsequently, especially heart disease, stroke and other cancers.GARFIELD: So of course, the industry said, oh my God, this is terrible news. We can see that we're merchants of death and we will henceforth get out of the cigarette business and into selling wintergreen candy. Right?BRANDT: That's not exactly what happened. Here you have a multi-million dollar industry confronted by scientific evidence that their product causes disease and death. And so the tobacco executives started to put their heads together and figure out, how do we respond to this? Do we say the science is bad? Do we just disregard it? Do we try to incriminate the scientist who produced this? And eventually what happens is that in December, 1953, the six major CEOs of the big tobacco companies get together at the Plaza Hotel in New York to consider the way forward because they knew that they were in a massive crisis in terms of their industry. And they called in probably the nation's most powerful and influential public relations executive, John Hill, to consult with them. And he listened to them for a while. And then he said, I don't think you understand how to do this. What you need to do is create uncertainty. Don't deny that these studies have appeared. Just say there's much more we need to learn. We need more science. And in a sense, one of the things that Hill told them is if you don't like the science that's coming out, begin to develop your own science. Find skeptics, find marginal scientific and medical people, give them grants and have them produce science that will serve the interest of your industry. What the tobacco industry really introduced in the early to mid 50s was the idea: How can we confuse science? How can we obscure what's coming out? How can we make people say, you know, there's a debate, we just don't know? A lot of physicians and scientists were coming out, 1952, 1953, saying we need to regulate cigarettes, we need to tell our patients to quit. A lot of doctors did quit and by the early 1960s, the industry's campaign — based on Hill's principles — really led to people saying we just don't have enough evidence yet.GARFIELD: Now, as you mentioned, 70 years ago the research showed the correlation between cigarette smoking and cancer based on health outcomes and behaviors for large study populations. But it wasn't laboratory science on a cellular level. So this opens some space for creating doubt, circumstantial evidence, blah, blah, blah. You have identified the industry's three pronged strategy.BRANDT: Yes. The three points were essentially that the evidence of the harms of smoking were inconclusive, that cancers had many causes and what we would really need is much more intensive research to resolve a publicly important question and that no one was more committed to the idea of learning more, investigating more completely and resolving this question. And then, of course, if we ever do find anything in cigarettes that might be harmful, we will take the lead in fixing our product and assuring the health of the public.GARFIELD: Yeah, like this Chesterfield commercial from the late fifties. The interviewer was a familiar face to the audience of the day: George Fenneman.GEORGE: As you watch, an electronic miracle is taking place as a stream of electrons creates this television picture. Here tonight is another electronic miracle, destined to affect your lives even more than television. This new electronic miracle, AccuRay, means that everything from auto tires to ice cream, battleship steel to cigarettes, can be made better and safer for you. Now meet Mr. Bert Chope, brilliant young president of Industrial Nucleonics. Well Bert, exactly what is AccuRay?CHOPE: Well, George, it is a device by which a stream of electrons passes through and analyzes the product while it is actually being made. They transferred what they see to this electronic brain, which adjusts the production machinery for errors down to millionths of an inch.GEORGE: Well, I always ask the question so many people ask me. How does AccuRay make Chesterfield a better cigarette than was ever possible before?CHOPE: Every cigarette made with AccuRay control contains a more precise measure of perfectly packed tobaccos, so Chesterfield smokes smoother, without hotspots or a hard draw.GEORGE: That's why Chesterfield tastes better and is best for you. Bert, what's your cigarette?CHOPE: You see, I know what AccuRay can do.GARFIELD: “Better for you,” like Kent's micronite filter and Marlboro Lights were supposedly — but not actually — better for you. But apart from — excuse the expression “puffery” — they stacked the deck with putatively legitimate scientists.BRANDT: They found a group that was hostile to epidemiology, that was committed to the idea that cancers have to be genetic. They hired a lot of people who were highly sympathetic to eugenic notions of genetics and elitism. And then the other thing they did is they gave out a lot of money to scientists. So in my research, I found a young scientist — his grant from the government had run out and they were very good at identifying these folks who were not really fully succeeding and saying, well, we can give you a grant and here's what we want you to do. And then when they produced papers, they edited the papers, they turned them around. Whenever there was a paper that seemed to be hesitant about the connection between smoking and disease, they would make sure it appeared in the press. And they really said there are two sides to this story. The media, in a sense, supported the Hill principles because the media was very committed to the idea that every story has two sides.GARFIELD: The same kind of false balance in, let's say, climate coverage, where climate denialists are given, you know, equal time with global scientific consensus.BRANDT: What the climate science world is based on are the principles of what today are widely called the tobacco industry playbook. So you set up these, like, industry funded, so-called independent research agencies — you know, the Center for Indoor Air Research. And what it turns out is that they're funded by industry and they collect scientists and materials as if they were independent. And the tobacco industry worked very, very concertedly to produce this alternative. And one of the arguments I'm prepared to make is the tobacco industry invented disinformation at this scale.GARFIELD: You were talking about the the cult of false balance, which is a longstanding journalistic reflex. But there's something else, and that is that as a revenue source, tobacco advertising was one of the two or three largest sectors for television and newspapers and magazines. So while the harm of tobacco was reported, there were huge disincentives for the media into taking sides. Do you think that that disincentive was corrupting?BRANDT: I do. I think that one of the things that the tobacco industry also invented, in a sense, were these very powerful conflicts of interest and in the largesse of the companies and their deep pockets really corrupted a number of critical social institutions, to some degree journalism. But in many ways, I would emphasize how it corrupted our political processes. And today, we give a lot of attention to special interest lobbying and contributions to political campaigns that we understand have undermined our democratic processes, especially around issues of science. The first part of Hill's principles, and part of what became the tobacco industry playbook, was to invest in campaigns and invest in politicians and shape their views on legislation through these funds. So, the industry invented disinformation, but it also created the kind of special interest lobbying. So, I sort of go from tobacco. We could include guns. The beverage industry has done a lot of this. And, of course, most notably right now is that the big energy oil companies have utilized so many of these techniques that are familiar for me from investigating the history of tobacco.GARFIELD: When it came to influencing the public and manipulating behavior, it turns out that these were not inexperienced people. As you wrote in the previous half of the 20th century, the industry, quote, “took a product that had existed at the cultural periphery and remade it into one of the most popular, successful and widely used items of the early 20th century.” You know, it's hard to imagine that there was a time when cigarette smoking was relatively marginal. How did they engineer its path from marginal to ubiquitous?BRANDT: The rise of popular smoking is one of the most remarkable stories in the history of mass consumer culture. The industry, through some very brilliant marketing and thinking, was able to take a product — little used, on the margins of society; actually quite a stigmatized product, late 19th century — and absolutely turn it around. They were very aware of the power of mass media, and they focused on making it for youth and making it cool. They focused on making it sexy and they realized that they had a potential to manipulate the culture. There was sort of the notion that cigarettes and American culture didn't fit, that we emphasize productivity, individual responsibility, no idleness. A lot of our culture was hostile to pleasure. And they inverted this. There are many examples of people like Edward Bernays, who was a giant early 20th century thinker in advertising and public relations. And he hired women to march in the Easter Day parade smoking cigarettes because women, it had been thought, shouldn't smoke in public. There were a lot of issues about women taking up smoking, and he associated cigarettes with women's rights and suffrage. So there was a strategic approach to popularizing cigarettes that was incredibly effective. And of course, you have this added advantage with cigarettes that when you do get people to smoke, you also get them addicted. Bernays went to the Hollywood studios and asked them to portray characters that smoke and brought cigarettes into the movies in an intense way. It didn't just happen. It's just an unbelievable story. Almost no one smokes in 1900, especially not cigarettes, and by 1950, 1960, we're very close to a majority of all adults smoking. And the impact that that had on health and continues to have on health has just been devastating.GARFIELD: The Hollywood story is just extraordinary, because not only did the rise of motion pictures parallel the rise of tobacco usage in the world, actors were eager to embrace it because, as you mentioned, you know, it was sexy, but also, also — dude! — it gave them something to do with their hands.BRANDT: Absolutely, and it was like, this is a prop. I'm giving it to you. It's going to appeal to our consumers. They hired many major movie stars who smoked in their movies to then do advertisements for them.GARFIELD: From Ronald Reagan to Mary Tyler Moore to the rugged and macho John Wayne.JOHN WAYNE: Well, after you've been making a lot of strenuous scenes, you like to sit back and enjoy a cool, mild, good-tasting cigarette. And that's just what Camels are, mild and good-tasting pack after pack. I know, I've been smoking ‘em for 20 years. So why don't you try ‘em yourself. You'll see what I mean.GARFIELD: Frank Sinatra actually sang about his cigarette TV sponsor.FRANK SINATRA: Cheeeesterfield. You start with a Grade A tobacco, the best that you can get. It's the sound of big pleasure, the sound I'll be making for Chesterfield in this time spot every week. It'll be easy for me because Chesterfield is my brand. It has been for years.GARFIELD: And Winston brokered a truly historic celebrity deal — or, anyway, prehistoric.BARNEY RUBBLE: Winston packs rich tobaccos specially selected and specially processed for good flavor in filter smokin'.FRED FLINTSONE: Yeah, Barney, Winston tastes good, like a … cigarette should.GARFIELD: Yes, decades before before the cartoon Joe Camel outraged the public by targeting kids, R.J. Reynolds managed to co-opt the appeal of Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble — neither of whom actually smoked Winstons, because they were animated characters from the Stone Age. The point being, though, that before anyone ever used the word “influencers,” Big Tobacco purchased endorsement from whomever conferred authority?BRANDT: Many sports figures, movie actors, famous people, doctors, and they helped create this sort of cult of influence and personality. GARFIELD: Doctors. DOCTORS.NARRATOR: Yes, folks, the pleasing mildness of a Camel is just as enjoyable to a doctor as it is to you or me. And according to this nationwide survey, more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette.GARFIELD: So before 1952, when the epidemiology started piling up, these guys were wizards at social engineering. And so now it came time to turn those skills on the problem of debunking legitimate science. And hence the playbook you've described. Now, 1953 was 1953, but over time the epidemiological smoking guns were being validated by lab research, cancer in mice and eventually a more fundamental understanding of the effects of tar, nicotine and other chemicals at a cellular level. But controversy was the industry story and they were sticking with it. BRANDT: Yes, it worked for a very long time until it began to erode, because of the concerns that began to arise in the late 1950s, but especially the 1960s, about negligence and responsibility for the tobacco companies through torts and suits.GARFIELD: Product liability.BRANDT: Yes. And so the lawyers kind of took over the strategy by 1960, certainly by 1964. And they said we don't have any choice, because otherwise the liabilities to the industry and information that we know it's harmful would undo the financial structure of the universe of the industries. And there are many ironies about this. Like, you sort of think, well, labeling cigarettes was a public health benefit. And at first the industry opposed labeling, but then the lawyers shift. They say, well, we actually need a label to protect us from liability. So, you know, the first label said: caution, cigarette smoking may be hazardous to your health. Actually, its biggest implication was that it protected the companies from liability.GARFIELD: And if anyone said, well, how, you know, how could you have not warned us? They said, well, we did warn you.BRANDT: The companies would say, well, you were aware that there was a label on the package, weren't you? And the litigant would say, yes, I was. And then they say, well, how can you hold our company responsible? And that's the way it went for a long time, really, until the 90s. And then a variety of forces began to direct very damning evidence to the companies. And one is it became very clear that the companies had maintained high levels of nicotine to keep smokers addicted.GARFIELD: But in April 1994, at Congressman Henry Waxman's House hearing on tobacco, under questioning from Congressman Ron Wyden, seven CEOs of major tobacco companies lied under oath — not only about augmenting the effect of nicotine in their products, but that nicotine was the drug that hooked smokers to begin with. The Surgeon General, the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization and others were unanimous, but …REP. WYDEN: Lemme begin my questioning on the matter of whether or not nicotine is addictive. Lemme ask you first — and I'd like to just go down the row — whether each of you believes that nicotine is not addictive. I heard virtually all of you touch on it and just, yes or no, do you believe nicotine is not addictive?CEO: I believe nicotine is not addictive, yes.REP. WYDEN: Mr. Johnston?CEO JOHNSTON: Congressman, cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. There is no intoxication.REP. WYDEN: Alright, we'll take that as a no. And again, time is short. If you could just, I think of each of you believe nicotine is not addictive. We just would like to have this for the record.CEO: I don't believe that nicotine or our products are addictive.CEO: I believe nicotine is not addictive.CEO: I believe that nicotine is not addictive.CEO: I believe that nicotine is not addictive.CEO: I, too, believe that nicotine is not addictive.REP. WYDEN: Dr. Campbell, I assume that you're aware that your testimony, and you've said in your testimony that nicotine is not addictive, is contradicted by an overwhelming number of authorities and associations. For example, in 1988 the surgeon general of the United States wrote an entire report on this topic. The surgeon general, of course, is the chief health advisor to our government. I assume you have reviewed that report.DOCTOR: Yes, I have sir.BRANDT: So that was one thing. The industry fought this tooth and nail, but the evidence really was rising all the time, that smokers could create risks for nonsmokers, especially indoors. And if Americans have a view that it's up to me and I'll take my risks, they're very sensitive to the idea of risks being imposed on them by others. And the change in indoor smoking bans, workplace smoking bans, getting smoking off of airplanes, all these things, I think, undermined the notion that this is a good and healthy product. And these were all elements of the decline of tobacco in the United States. The one other issue that I really wanted to raise here, though, is that the industry had always been focused on getting young smokers. They had to go get younger smokers if they were going to — the word they use — replace the smokers who were dying and the creation of the tobacco market was in the youth market. And often the youth market is an illegal market. For many years, you couldn't buy cigarettes til you were 16 or 18. The number kept going up. So in the 90s, and a lot of people remember this, you know, there was the famous Joe Camel comic book campaign.GARFIELD: Joe Camel was a cartoon.BRANDT: Yes, a cartoon character. Totally cool. Flying jets, getting women, hanging out in clubs. And a lot of the information from the development of that campaign is now fortunately in the archives because R.J. Reynolds was sued.BERNSTEIN: The commission's complaint alleges that this campaign was used to promote an addictive and dangerous product to children and adolescents under the age of 18, and that this practice is illegal.GARFIELD: That was Jodie Bernstein, Director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection, in May of 1997.BRANDT: And so I think these things together, you know, the idea that secondhand smoke was harmful to others, that the companies had manipulated cigarettes to be more highly addictive at a time that they said we're trying to protect the public, the appeal to kids. These are the things that led to the kind of crisis of the industry that in some ways it remains in and is looking for strategies to emerge from.GARFIELD: We discussed how the surgeon general warning actually turned out to have the ironic effect of creating legal impunity for the industry. But these smoking guns you're describing, like the marketing to kids, like the documentary evidence that they had added nicotine to tobacco and the science on second hand smoke, they ultimately would give power to litigation that was able to do what legislatures and regulators could not do. And that was to hold the industry accountable.BRANDT: Yes, there was a shift in litigation strategy, in the 90s, from smokers who had been harmed being the plaintiffs, to a very innovative strategy where the state said, well, we pay all these monies to take care of people who your companies have caused to be ill, and you need to compensate our states for the health care expenses that we have had associated with smokers. And it was in the many billions of dollars. And so this states' litigation, brought by attorneys general, turned out to be in many ways quite successful and resulted in what's called the master settlement agreement at the end of the 90s that agreed to pay the states 246 billion dollars to compensate them for the costs that they had had.GARFIELD: Again in 1997, this was Mississippi attorney general Mike Moore taking a victory lap before the assembled Washington press.MOORE: We wanted this industry to have to change the way they do business, and we have done that. We wanted the industry to stop marketing to their products to our kids, and we have come up with a comprehensive plan that will do that. We wanted to do something that would punish this industry for their past misconduct, and we have done that. And we wanted to make sure  that every single person, not only in America but this entire world, knows the truth about what the tobacco industry has done to the people of this world over the last 50 years, and we are satisfied that we have done that.GARFIELD: At approximately the same time as the master settlement was put into force — and this quarter of a trillion dollars penalty to the industry seemed to be a huge turning point, and tobacco usage has plummeted worldwide since then, so I guess it was a turning point — but it happened at the same time that Francis Fukuyama published his book The End of History, which was predicting essentially that liberal democracy had taken hold the world over and that authoritarianism and the forces of reaction were just going to fade into oblivion. That turned out to be prematurely burying ultraconservative politics. And, equally it seems to me that the master agreement prematurely buried the notion that the tobacco industry was on the skids, on the way to oblivion. It did not play out that way.BRANDT: It didn't at all. And we have a notion here in the United States and many countries in Western Europe that we've seen this dramatic decline in smoking. It's no longer a favored cultural behavior. Many, many thousands, millions of people have quit smoking or died from smoking. But the industry had a long term strategy that said, smoking is on decline in wealthy, highly educated societies. So where can we effectively market cigarettes now?GARFIELD: So let's talk about that, because the industry now says: Yes, cigarettes cause cancer, heart disease, hypertension, emphysema and a host of other conditions. And it is our strategy to reduce our revenues associated with combustible cigarettes by 50 percent. And the elephant in the room is the other 50 percent of their revenues. So, on the one hand, they're acknowledging that they are selling a lethal product. And on the other hand, they're saying, and we will continue to do so to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and hundreds of millions of lives. One scarcely knows where to begin, but where does?BRANDT: And this is one of the most diabolical aspects of the changes in the United States and other similar countries — during the 80s and 90s and the early 2000s — is that going all the way back to the 1950s and 60s when the threats to tobacco began to arise, the companies were looking at markets in China, East Asia, Africa, Latin America. So most people think that — and these are the projections of the World Health Organization — that 100 million people died in the 20th century as a result of smoking and that in this century, one billion people will die, 10 times as many, because of the explosion of combustible cigarettes around the world. So I look at the move to e-cigarettes and vaping, as kind of the latest strategy that's really part of this wider history that I've been examining. We need to be very skeptical of these companies that claim that they've crossed over to legitimate health oriented products because they've made these claims since the 1950s. They told Americans, you know if you're worried about smoking, smoke filter cigarettes and that was the beginning of Marlboro. You know, you had a cowboy smoking a safe cigarette, which turned out not to be the case. So I'm very skeptical and worried about the current situation with vaping, e-cigarettes, other nicotine related products, and the idea that we're just a responsible company trying to mitigate the harms that our principal product has produced for over a century. Many of my colleagues, who have advocated with me for tobacco control, thought, well maybe this is the answer. There would be a harm reduction product that would vastly reduce the health impacts of combustible tobacco and lead to a radical change in the epidemiology of tobacco related deaths in the 21st century. They believe that we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.GARFIELD: Not an uncompelling argument.BRANDT: But what they also realized is people don't start using nicotine products as adults. So, we created a remarkable human-made health crisis through the aggressive introduction of e-cigarettes and vaping without any scientific evidence that they actually served harm reduction, or only minimal and often industry sponsored evidence that they could do that. And so, the history of Juul and vaping as a company is very informative. Juul always claimed, all we want to do is produce a safe product for people who want to switch from tobacco to a vape. But, it now appears that was a big lie because the Juul executives and the company had to understand how much of their market was in underage use of the product. And they addicted thousands and thousands of this generation of young people to nicotine, many of whom are bearing those consequences now, some of whom switch to combustible tobacco. So, it's made me very skeptical of an industry that says: we learned our lesson and we have great products.GARFIELD: Now, I don't ask these questions for no reason. This is 2021, and the same industry that has so corrupted science and research for most of a century is now claiming that it's smoke-free strategy of noncombustible cigarettes is just following the science, that they are asking us to cleave to the science in making decisions personally and as a society. And, you know, how do you feel about that?BRANDT: Well, I just think this is consistent with the strategies that they invented and utilized for a very long time, and as you probably know, just in the last month it was reported that a journal, the American Journal of Health and Behavior, published a entire issue on harm reduction and Juul vaping. It became clear and it was widely reported in the press that the issue of this journal was completely paid for by Juul and the work was done in Juul labs. And so, they return to this strategy of, we can produce the science. And it has muddied the waters and diluted the authority that science really needs to have positive public health impacts. And we really need science. And science has to speak with expertise and authority and validity and clear and aggressive peer review. And we need to know the difference between something that you know is a fact and something that obscures facts. It's a challenge to the planet right now when we think about climate change and its regulation and the intense capital that's involved.GARFIELD: The scorpion stings the frog to death and says, it is my nature.BRANDT: Yes, and in these instances, profits and more profits obscured the consequences. And, we see that honestly with Purdue Pharma. We see it at Juul. We see it in many of the major energy companies. And these strategies of, we can control this space, has really been incredibly harmful to all of our human health.GARFIELD: I already asked this question in a different way, but I'm gonna offer this one up as well. Just putting aside the unknown effect of noncombustibles, even if it achieves its smoke-free goal, half of Philip Morris's revenue will still come from cigarettes people set fire to and inhale, which means millions and millions more deaths around the world. The estimate I saw was six to seven million souls per year around the world, which is a Holocaust per year. If Philip Morris is suddenly so enlightened, by what moral calculus can it continue to kill millions of human beings with their products?BRANDT: It's been a question for the industry since the middle of the 20th century. They have a product that's highly addictive and incredibly harmful and it's incredibly profitable. It involves a lot of powerful people losing a lot of money and they just can't give it up. That's a gigantic problem in relationship to capitalism and health.GARFIELD: We talked about the playbook, how the strategy forged in January, 1953, in the Plaza Hotel has not only dictated Big Tobacco's moves, but also those of the gun lobby and the fossil fuels industry. I don't know, Big Sugar.BRANDT: Yes.GARFIELD: And other industries that cause direct harm to the people who legally use their products. And those initiatives, in those other industries, have us on the brink of planetary destruction. I mean, I don't think I'm hyperventilating here. The techniques that we have described have created and fostered so many existential harms that one wonders what chance have we? Can we make the case that we're discussing crimes against humanity here and the tobacco industry is accountable not only for the deaths from its products, but from the toll of these other industries who embraced tobacco's game plan?BRANDT: Well, I think these are massive crimes and I'm not without hope, but I do think the kinds of crises that we're becoming more aware of have the potential to motivate changes in our politics, our policy, our regulation. So, the combination that we've seen this year of Covid-19, of radical changes in the climate that are changing our weather and threatening health in that way, have to be taken seriously, immediately. I think it's going to take changes in our political strategies and orientations to do that. But the revelations of how these companies behave is an important element to that and understanding what they're doing, how they're doing it, exposing the playbook when it's being used so successfully, is a critical element to building the will to really take this on.GARFIELD: Allan, with a little bit of trepidation, I'd like to one more time revisit the infamous Plaza Hotel conference and offer a historical analogy. In early 1942, the Nazi High Command held a secret conference in a villa in the Berlin suburb, Wannsee, to forge the Final Solution for the so-called Jewish question, namely the destruction of the Jews in Europe. So that was fateful in the worst way. Now, the meeting you're describing, that took place not quite 12 years later, has the tobacco industry convened at the Plaza to forge a strategy for the so-called, these were their words, tobacco question — in this case, by destroying scientific consensus through disinformation and doubt. Now, I'll get flak for this, along Godwin's Law lines, because the Holocaust claimed six million Jewish lives. But in the balance of the 20th century, tobacco claimed on the order of 350 million human lives, which I guess until the advent of the climate crisis, may have been history's most lethal crime against humanity. What took place at this conference?BRANDT: Well, I think what Hill was able to do was to appeal to a kind of psychological rationalization on people who had spent their whole careers in this tobacco industry culture. They said, well, we've always had a controversial product. There have always been people against us. They'd convinced themselves, I think at least at first, that there really was some ambiguity and that there really was some uncertainty. But rather than that being marginal to the way we understand science, Hill's strategy gave it a bullhorn, and so when Congress would have hearings about are cigarettes harmful or not, there was always a kind of notion, the tobacco control people and the epidemiologists will come in and then the industry scientists will come in. And I think publicly we were quite naive about how that worked, and now we can look back and see into it that this is the origins of industrial disinformation, misuse of science at the tremendous costs of public health and global health that you just mentioned.GARFIELD: So, going back to my analogy, that grim analogy, is it overheated? Is it unhelpful? Is it irresponsible?BRANDT: I wouldn't say it's unhelpful, but I do think that it's probably good to look at this kind of industrial impact on death and disease in a slightly different context than the Holocaust and Nazi decision making. They both do reflect a fundamental disregard for human life and a series of psychological rationalizations that are sold to the public and are based in fundamental misconceptions about what we know and how we know it. But as you say, it's a politically fraught analogy. The notion of these people were evil and they did something horrendous, it sometimes can obstruct our ability to see the mechanisms of work at how industries have exploited public health for incredible financial gain and greed.GARFIELD: Allan, thank you very much.BRANDT: It's really been great to talk to you.GARFIELD: Allan Brandt is professor of the history of science at Harvard and author of The Cigarette Century: The Rise, Fall and Deadly Persistence of the Product That Defined America.(THEME MUSIC)GARFIELD: All right, we're done here. Now then, Bully Pulpit is produced by Mike Vuolo and Matthew Schwartz. Our theme was composed by Julie Miller and the team at Harvest Creative Services in Lansing, Michigan. Bully Pulpit is a production of Booksmart Studios. I'm Bob Garfield. Get full access to Bully Pulpit at bullypulpit.substack.com/subscribe

Their names are synonymous with Saturday mornings and the laughter of children. Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Elmer Fudd, Sylvester the Cat. Generations began their weekends by welcoming these comical characters into their homes and, as a result, they helped shape the culture that they entertained. Porky Pig, Tweetie Pie, Foghorn Leghorn, the Road Runner. The golden age of cartoons saw an increasing number of production companies spring up throughout Hollywood and would help revolutionize a television industry that was still in its fledgling years. Barney Rubble, Mr. Spacely, Peppy la Pew, Speedy Gonzalez. These illustrated icons helped amass untold fame and wealth that is still being felt today, some 80+ years later. Captain Caveman, Woody Woodpecker, Dino the Dinosaur, Marvin the Martian. But there's one name that you might not know and it's imperative to understanding the true scope of this time period, as well as this entire genre of entertainment. You see, without him, there would have been no stories… and these characters, well their voices, would never have been heard. Hear their stories, and his, on this episode of The Missing Chapter. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/themissingchapter/support

Cole, Keith, and Kris get into Barney Rubble... Trouble!

This episode Kathy welcomes Darrell Van Citters, a respected animator, director and author. He has some great insights and stories about his work on Tom & Jerry, Mister Magoo, and many other legacy cartoons, plus his collaborations with talents like Mel Blanc, the voice of Bugs Bunny, Tweety, Foghorn Leghorn, Yosemite Sam, Barney Rubble and hundreds more.

Dave and Alonso wish you a very Merry Christmas by offering up another free episode of LKTV, a podcast of the television that's usually an exclusive for our Patreon subscribers. Bibbs and Witney of Canceled Too Soon join us to talk about our favorite holiday-themed TV ads of the past and present. Topics include Scrooge, Barney Rubble's cereal kleptomania, sad Christmas and Lymon. Subscribe and review us at Apple Podcasts, follow us @linoleumcast on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, sure did treat you right. Join our club, won't you? And support Canceled Too Soon on Patreon.

In honor of Father's Day, The Habit Comedy Podcast drafts The Best Cartoon Dads, from television or film. Featuring Lucas Thayer, Ryan Dobosh, and Jeff Schell. Special guest appearances by the honorable Judge Reinhold. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Please rate and review us on iTunes or Spotify or in whichever platform you use. (Unless you're one of those weirdos who uses Stitcher or something.) Reviews definitely help us stand out in a sea of podcasts. If you don't, the terrorists have already won. For a complete library of past episodes of The Habit Comedy Podcast, visit www.TheHabitComedy.com.

As the credits come to and end, we share some closing thoughts about the film.

This week on the Major Spoilers Podcast: Ghost in the Shell makes us question our post-life choices, Mass Effect Andromeda is playable, Booster Gold The Flintstones Special #1 and Ultimates 2 #5 all get reviewed. NEWS What's going on with Comic Cons? http://majorspoilers.com/2017/03/20/comics-portal-happening-comic-conventions/ REVIEWS STEPHEN BOOSTER GOLD THE FLINTSTONES SPECIAL #1 Writers: Amanda Conner, Jimmy Palmiotti, Mark Russell Art: Pier Brito, Rick Leonardi Publisher: DC Comics Cover Price: $4.99 Welcome to the twenty-fifth century, where the Earth is a polluted postindustrial nightmare, most animals are extinct and reptilian aliens are invading cities across the planet! In their time of need, the world's citizens turn to the time-traveling Booster Gold to save the day. To learn why these aliens are seeking revenge, Booster dives deep into the prehistoric past to see what happened the last time they hit the planet. In this bygone era, Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble must help Booster learn the truth and return to his own time armed with the information that will bring down the invaders-if Booster can convince them to help him. No problem-we all know how persuasive Booster can be, right? Right?! And in the backup feature starring The Jetsons, in a new twist on an old twist about our future, The Jetsons live in a world of robotics and gadgetry. But how does dying change when grandma's brain can be digitally imprinted onto a housecleaning robot? [rating:3.5/5] MATTHEW ULTIMATES 2 #5 Writer: Al Ewing Artist: Travel Foreman Publisher: Marvel Comics Cover Price: $3.99 • Philip Nolan Vogt has a decision to make - one that will either save the Multiverse, or damn it forever to somewhere beyond hell. • Philip Nolan Vogt is only human... • Extra! At the end of this issue, you will know the name of the Cosmic Jailer. Heaven help you. [rating:3/5] RODRIGO MASS EFFECT ANDROMEDA Publisher: Electronic Arts Price: $59.96 Mass Effect: Andromeda takes players to the Andromeda galaxy, far beyond the Milky Way. There, players will lead our fight for a new home in hostile territory as the Pathfinder-a leader of military-trained explorers. This is the story of humanity's next chapter, and player choices throughout the game will ultimately determine our survival. [rating:4/5] MAJOR SPOILERS POLL OF THE WEEK http://majorspoilers.com/2017/03/28/major-spoilers-poll-week-ghost-shell-edition/ TRADE PAPERBACK DISCUSSION GHOST IN THE SHELL Writer/Artist: Masamune Shirow Deep into the 21st century, the line between man and machine has been inexorably blurred as humans rely on the enhancement of mechanical implants and robots are upgraded with human tissue. In this rapidly converging landscape, cyborg super-agent Major Motoko Kusanagi is charged to track down the craftiest and most dangerous terrorists and cybercriminals, including "ghost hackers," capable of exploiting the human/machine interface by re-programming human minds to become puppets to carry out their criminal ends. When Major Kusanagi tracks the cybertrail of one such master hacker, the Puppeteer, her quest leads her into a world beyond information and technology where the very nature of consciousness and the human soul are turned upside-down and inside-out. CLOSE Contact us at podcast@majorspoilers.com Call the Major Spoilers Hotline at (785) 727-1939. A big Thank You goes out to everyone who downloads, subscribes, listens, and supports this show. We really appreciate you taking the time to listen to our ramblings each week. Tell your friends! Closing music comes from Ookla the Mok.

8 AM - 1 - The munchkins touched Dorothy . 2 - Steve Bannon is NOT an ISIS leader. 3 - The News with Marshall Phillips. 4 - Osama said terrorists could masturbate.