Podcasts about pacific islands

It's Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month and we're using this week's episode to highlight scientists and researchers from those regions to emphasize their contributions to science across all different fields of study. Then, Sam speaks with Dr. Steven Mana'oakamai Johnson. He explains how people are responding to climate change across the Pacific Islands and the importance of local knowledge when it comes to understanding and preparing for new types of weather systems in that region. And finally, Sam investigates a recent study where researchers created an artificial leaf that could have a real impact when it comes to renewable energy. Link to Show Notes HERE Follow Curiosity Weekly on your favorite podcast app to get smarter with Dr. Samantha Yammine — for free! Still curious? Get science shows, nature documentaries, and more real-life entertainment on discovery+! Go to https://discoveryplus.com/curiosity to start your 7-day free trial. discovery+ is currently only available for US subscribers. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On Friday's Mark Levin Show, Newark Mayor Ras Baraka was arrested for trespassing at a federal ICE detention facility he wants to close. He refused to leave when asked, showing politicians' arrogance. Trespassing and refusing to leave leads to arrest, as nobody, including politicians, is above the law. Protesting inside a federal law enforcement center isn't allowed, and while ICE enforces the law, Democrats claim they're unrestrained by it. Interim U.S. Attorney for NJ Alina Habba calls in to explain exactly what happened with the arrest. This is federal property, and the laws can't be broken, no matter who you are.  Also, AG Letitia James dismisses the mortgage fraud allegations against her as unfounded, despite published forms and evidence suggesting criminal activity. Later, 15 states are suing over Trump's order to speed up oil and gas projects. Most likely, a judge will block energy independence. It's time for the Supreme Court to step up against these rogue judges.  There might be a time when Americans defy the courts because they won't respect the rogue activity of these judges. If judges won't abide by the law, why should the people listen to their orders? This is all about sabotage and obstruction by these judges. Afterward, Trump is considering a plan to strengthen ties with Greenland by proposing a Compact of Free Association (COFA), similar to agreements with Pacific Island nations. This brilliant move aims to bring Greenland into America's sphere of influence. This is what a consequential president does. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hilda Wayne talks to Pacific Island women who are the eldest sister in their family about the challenges and rewards of this unique role.This week's episode of Sistas, Let's Talk is a repeat of the show broadcast on 21st June 2022

The Commerce Commission has confirmed it will not be formally putting the cost of flying under the microscope. Rangitata MP James Meager has suggested the Government could help keep fares competitive by supporting regional airlines. It's been revealed some flights to Pacific Island nations are cheaper than certain trips within New Zealand. Commission Chair Dr John Small says flying short routes with low demand is very expensive. "There's no law against charging high prices - that's the reality of things in New Zealand. If it's a monopoly - on a monopoly route - it's potentially able to be regulated." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Part 2 of the Nuclear Mini-Series This is part two of my mini-series on nuclear power and whether it could be the clean energy solution we've all been waiting for.As I said before (and it bears repeating): fossil fuels kill about 8 million people every single year — more than the populations of Aotearoa and most of the Pacific Islands combined.Despite that, nuclear power remains the energy source we fear the most. But should we?In the last episode, we explored the science of nuclear — what it is, how it works, and why it's not nearly as scary as it sounds. In this episode, we dive into its history — a sometimes horrifying, sometimes absurd, and often misunderstood timeline that shaped our collective anxiety around nuclear energy.In this episode, I cover:The early discoveries of nuclear materials and radiationHow public fear around nuclear energy really beganThe rise of nuclear bombs and the race for atomic powerWhat actually happens inside a nuclear reactor (in plain English)The major nuclear disasters that shaped global perceptionWhat went wrong at Three Mile IslandWhat made Chernobyl so catastrophicWhy Fukushima shook public confidence in nuclear safetyKey quotes:“Nuclear energy got its hideous reputation before it had even powered a single light bulb.”“Creepy green glows and mutant fish? That's science fiction, not reality.”“Public anxiety about nuclear energy didn't actually start with power stations.”Books & Resources Mentioned:Here are the books and materials I mentioned for anyone who wants to explore:The Radium Girls by Kate MooreA gripping and enraging true story of the young women who painted glow-in-the-dark watch faces with radioactive paint — and paid the ultimate price. The Woman Who Knew Too Much by Gayle GreeneA biography of Dr. Alice Stewart, who studied radiation risks and stood up to the nuclear establishment. (Recommended for broader radiation safety context).Atoms and Ashes: A Global History of Nuclear Disasters by Serhii PlokhyCovers Six major nuclear incidents — including Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Three Mile Island — with historical and political analysis.If you want to go down the rabbit hole, I also recommend googling:“Radithor” (yes, that glowing bottled water was real)“Clarence Dally and Thomas Edison” (the first radiation death in the U.S).Find our full podcast via the website here:https://www.nowthatswhaticall.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nowthatswhaticallgreen/You can follow me on socials on the below accounts.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/briannemwest/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@briannemwestLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briannemwest/For our latest big project, find out more about Incrediballs here: https://incrediballs.com/

Fossil fuels kill about 8 million people every single year, which is more than the populations of Aotearoa and most of the remaining Pacific Islands put together.Nuclear power, though - it's the one that evokes all of that terror and fear, and, well, fair enough because radiation sickness is terrifying. But I am fascinated by nuclear energy ever since I found out that Chernobyl happened on my birthday, albeit the year before I was born, but still - fascinating.The big fact is that nuclear is a far safer way to create energy than fossil fuels.So it begs the question: if nuclear energy's fatality rate is orders of magnitude lower than coal's, why are we still burning coal like it's 1890?To get into this, I'm doing a 4-part series on nuclear power, and to start with, I'll be discussing what it actually is.In this episode I share:What is an atom, what's it made of and how can they be changedHow atoms can become reactiveWhat nuclear reactions are and the creation of isotopesThe two types of radiationWhat the 4 main types of ionising radiation areNeutrons and their role in radiation and nuclear reactorsThe fear and danger that comes with radiationKey Quotes“Ionising radiation can knock electrons out of DNA molecules and that is what ultimately can lead to cancer.”“Ultimately radiation is if the neutron to proton ratio in an atom isn't balanced, it calms itself by emitting energy.”Find our full podcast via the website here:https://www.nowthatswhaticall.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nowthatswhaticallgreen/You can follow me on socials on the below accounts.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/briannemwest/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@briannemwestLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briannemwest/For our latest big project, find out more about Incrediballs here: https://incrediballs.com/

Noah Musingku made a fortune with a Ponzi scheme and then retreated to a remote armed compound in the jungle, where he still commands the loyalty of his Bougainville subjects By Sean Williams. Read by Simon Darwen. Help support our independent journalism at theguardian.com/longreadpod

Dengue fever is in the news right now after the death of a young Samoan boy at Starship Hospital last week. As many New Zealanders travel to the Pacific Islands, the recent outbreak means it's something to consider. The other interesting fact about dengue fever is as well as being relevant to the Pacific, it's becoming more common around the world due to climate change – increasing temperature and humidity driving mosquito population and leading to more people being infected. What is it? A mosquito-spread virus. You get it when a mosquito bites you that is infected with dengue fever. Unlike malaria, it's carried by the small mosquitoes that come out during the day. Not the evening/early morning mosquitoes that typically carry malaria. It's becoming more common around the world with climate change – with hotter more humid temperatures. Endemic in Pacific, which is presently going through an outbreak. Can actually now be found in places like far North Queensland. It could it reach New Zealand one day – possibly with climate change. What happens if you are bitten by a mosquito carrying dengue fever? Symptoms occur 4-10 days after the mosquito bite. Typical symptoms: High fever, severe headache, pain behind the eyes, muscle and joint aches (has been referred to as ‘break bone fever'), nausea, vomiting, and skin rash. Often people recover after 1-2 weeks. Severe form is called haemorrhagic fever with bleeding, cardiovascular shock, and sometimes death. Typically occurs when you get an infection a second time – not the first. What can we do treat it? Important: There is no vaccine to prevent the disease, once you have it there is no treatment. Just treat the symptoms: Paracetamol, not ibuprofen or aspirin as this can increase bleeding risk. Plenty of fluids and rest. A majority will get better, however, if symptoms are severe, you need to see a doctor and may need the hospital. How do we prevent it? Be aware that Pacific destinations Fiji, Tonga and Samoa have had recent outbreaks. Outbreaks are often every 2-5 years with year-round risk. Resorts often put in place protocols to reduce/eliminate mosquitoes. If mosquitoes are around, protect against getting bitten with insect repellents, long sleeve shorts/pants, and mosquito nets. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Send us feedback about this episode!Today's episode features an interview with renowned textile artist and quilter Sylvia Pippen, whose work beautifully blends traditional Japanese sashiko with contemporary appliqué techniques. Sylvia shares her creative journey—from growing up in a family of artists to developing her signature style inspired by nature, Pacific Island culture, and the rhythms of hand stitching.We talk about the history and uses of sashiko, the process behind her stunning botanical designs, and how she approaches teaching with both tradition and innovation in mind. Whether you're a seasoned quilter or simply curious about slow stitching, Sylvia's insights will leave you inspired to pick up your needle and thread.Show notes for each episode: www.thestraightstitchpodcast.comMy website: www.janetszabo.comSee my sewing projects at: www.janetszabo.com/blogE-mail me! janet@janetszabo.com

What does the climate crisis mean for sovereignty in a world where certain countries face existential risk? I spoke to Taukiei Kitara, a native of Tuvalu, about the case of low-lying Pacific Islands, including his native Tuvalu.Please sign up for my substack at arthursnell.substack.com and follow me on Bluesky @snellarthur.bsky.social. You can sometimes find me on other podcasts - most often Disorder which I am involved with in partnership with RUSI, the Royal United Services Institute, the world's oldest think tank. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In April of 1722 Dutch explorer Jacob Roggeveen and his crew stumbled upon a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. They sailed for the Dutch West India Company in search of Terra Australis Incognita, a hypothetical undiscovered continent that doesn't actually exist. The land they found instead was just a 64 square mile speck some 1,200 miles from the nearest island and over 2,000 miles from the nearest continent. This island, which they spotted on Easter Sunday, was incredibly small and incredibly remote. And yet, remarkably, there seemed to be people living there. Roggeveen and his crew were confused, as were the handful of Europeans who made occasional landfall in the centuries that followed. None of them could understand the mysterious people of Easter Island. Where did they come from? How did they get there? Why did they carve massive stone heads? How did they move them? There were so many unanswered questions that have led to a complete lack of answers even today. But the real mystery is, why didn't anyone just ask the Rapanui people themselves? Perhaps, if they had, Easter Island, Rapa Nui wouldn't be the mystery it is today. Join me this week to finally learn about Rapa Nui. We'll examine recent DNA evidence that completely debunks past theories and we'll finally listen to the Rapanui people whose rich oral traditions, storytelling, have survived despite it all.Support the show! Join the Patreon (patreon.com/historyfixpodcast)Buy some merchBuy Me a CoffeeVenmo @Shea-LaFountaineSources: UNESCO "Rapa Nui National Park"Smithsonian Magazine "The Secrets of Easter Island"Smithsonian Magazine "Easter Island's Ancient Population Never Faced Ecological Collapse, Suggests Another StudyNature "Ancient Rapanui genomes reveal resilience and pre-European contact with the AmericasEBSCO "European Discovery of Easter Island"Wikipedia "History of Easter Island"PBS NOVA Online "Secrets of Easter Island"Shoot me a message!

Russia has said that it will conduct a shooting drill in waters including Japanese territorial waters around the Northern Territories, which are claimed by Tokyo but effectively controlled by Moscow, Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshimasa Hayashi said Friday.

This week: Scott's Guest Co-Host is Dave Hilfman, Special Report: Chris Sloan on the Pacific Island Hopper; News: Frontier, Delta, revenue lower than projected; United adding significant numbers of seats; What's happening with the NOTAM system? FAA still having trouble with technology; Avelo accepts contract to operate deportation flights; Listener Q: Is a Republic - SkyWest merger in the cards?

Rosalind Pedron a senior from Australia majoring in Pacific Island studies and political science and Didier Pedron a senior from Tahiti majoring in business marketing share their journey about how their passion with photography developed as they combined each other's strengths.

Polyfest started 50 years ago, with only four schools participating. It has since grown to be the largest Maori and Pacific Islands festival of its kind in the world, show-casing traditional music, dance and speeches from thousands of secondary school students. RNZ's Coco Lance joins live from the grounds, on the final day of Polyfest 2025.

Garth Heckman TDAgiantSlayer@Gmail.com The David Alliance      What are the marks of a man in history?      Across the globe, various cultures have developed unique and often intense rituals to mark a young male's transition into manhood. These rites of passage serve to test physical and mental fortitude, impart cultural knowledge, and solidify the individual's place within the community. Here are a few examples: Amazonian Tribes (e.g., Sateré-Mawé): A particularly grueling ritual involves the "bullet ant glove." Young men must wear gloves filled with hundreds of highly venomous bullet ants, enduring excruciating pain to demonstrate their strength and resilience. Ethiopian Tribes (e.g., Hamar): The "bull-jumping" ceremony requires young men to leap across the backs of several cattle, proving their agility and courage. Pacific Islands (e.g., Vanuatu): "Land diving" involves young men jumping from tall wooden towers with vines tied to their ankles, a dangerous feat that tests their bravery. Australian Aboriginal Cultures: "Walkabout" is a traditional journey where young men venture into the wilderness for extended periods, learning survival skills and cultural knowledge. Various African Cultures: Circumcision rituals are common, symbolizing the transition from boyhood to manhood. There are also many cultures that have rituals that include periods of isolation, where the young men are taught the traditional laws, and history of their people. Jewish Culture: The Bar Mitzvah, at age 13, marks a young man's religious coming-of-age, signifying his responsibility to observe Jewish law. These rituals often involve: Physical endurance: Tests of strength, pain tolerance, and survival skills. Spiritual or ceremonial elements: Rituals that connect the individual to their cultural heritage and beliefs. Community recognition: Public ceremonies that acknowledge the young man's new status within the group. Instruction and knowledge transfer: Older men imparting essential skills and cultural wisdom to the initiates. It's important to approach these cultural practices with respect and understanding, recognizing their significance within their respective communities.   What are my three marks of a man in todays world? Here are the three I think are relevant for your society.   Save your virginity until marriage   Serve others as a lifestyle    Evangelize the lost - tell others about Jesus   Why these three? They do three things…    Evangelism: It challenges you to learn. You must learn scripture, learn how to read people. Learn how to share the gospel with differing people, belief systems and environments. Learn how to answer questions that have a biblical backing, loving in nature and make God look good. And how to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.    Servanthood. It challenges you to live outside your world and the worlds view (its all about me - its all about what my eyes want, my soul wants, my appetites want, what my pride wants… servanthood crushes that) One should monthly - and honestly more than once a month… but you should be serving in a capacity where you help others less fortunate than you. There are dozens of areas… food pantry, boys club, Prison ministry, Tutor kids, babysit for single parents,  visit a nursing home, Go hand out sandwiches to the homeless, help your church in some serving role, houses for humanity, work at a pet shelter… And part of serving is giving your money and not just your time.      They challenge you to learn discipline and reliance on the Holy Spirit to tame your most powerful, lustful and fleshly desires. If you can't tame your sex drive you will never fully be able to serve God with all your heart. It is the proving ground of truly wanting to be a man of God - more than evangelism and servanthood. If a girl/woman wants to marry a Christian man and he cannot handle is sex drive than he is simply confessing through his actions that his fleshly desires are more important than God and his word.

This week Mike joins Victor Cha, President OF Geopolitics and Foreign Policy Department and Korea Chair at CSIS. From 2021 to 2025, he was appointed by Joseph R. Biden administration to serve on the Defense Policy Board in an advisory role to the secretary of defense. From 2004 to 2007, he served on the National Security Council (NSC) and was responsible for Japan, Korea, Australia/New Zealand, and Pacific Island nations. They discuss South Korea's recently failed coup in 2024, and the future of South Korean international relations in the region. 

If you have Denisovan DNA, it means you carry genes from an ancient human species that lived thousands of years ago.

David Pocock, the former rugby star turned independent senator, embraces the label of “weirdo” for his belief that sports and politics should go hand in hand. The former rugby star isn’t afraid to challenge the status quo, famously refused to marry until same-sex couples had the same rights and being arrested for climate protests. In this chat with Antoinette Lattouf, David explains why rugby must lead on climate action, given its deep ties to Pacific Island nations with communities already bearing the brunt of climate change. Weekend list with Helen Smith TO WATCH: The White Lotus season 3 on Binge TO EAT: Pistachio Papi Spread TO READ: Conspiracy? War on the waterfront on ABC Listen TO LISTEN: Discover weekly playlist on Spotify Follow The Briefing: TikTok: @listnrnewsroom Instagram: @listnrnewsroom @thebriefingpodcast YouTube: @LiSTNRnewsroom Facebook: @LiSTNR NewsroomSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

No pleasant introductions, or quaint toast at the end of this one folks. We may have moved past the brink, and into the abyss, but that's to discuss in later episodes....Today, three long-term USAID staffers  now retired and free to talk describe their anger over how  the foreign aid  program has been gutted and colleagues maligned, their fear about global suffering and losses that will result ,and their hope for a  come back  in the future.Francisco Bencosme was formerly the China Policy Lead for USAID, the principal advisor on issues relating to China and Taiwan. Prior to joining USAID, he was deputy to the Special Presidential Envoy for Compact of Free Association talks, helping conclude agreements with the Marshall Islands, Micronesia, and Palau in the Pacific Islands. He was at the same time senior advisor to the assistant secretary for East Asian and the Pacific Affairs.Before joining the Biden/Harris administration, he was a senior policy advisor at the Open Society Foundations covering Asia and Latin America. During his time at Amnesty International USA, Bencosme led the US human rights policy and advocacy program towards the Asia Pacific.  In 2018, he was named one of The Hill's Top Lobbyist for a campaign on Myanmar Rohingya issues. He also has served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff.Ann Posner spent more than 32 years working in USAID missions in the Czech Republic, Russia, Albania, Bosnia and the West Bank-Gaza.  As a Foreign Service Executive Officer she led local administrative staffs and helped manage programs involving issues ranged from crop marketing in the Eastern Caribbean, anti-corruption and free election laws in Russia, and agricultural aid in Albania to investigation journalism and judicial reform in BosniaSusan Reichle is a retired Senior Foreign Service officer of USAID and former president and CEO of the International Youth Foundation — global non-profit working to equip and inspire young people everywhere to transform their lives. Before joining IYF, Susan spent 26 years in leadership positions at USAID missions overseas and in Washington, D.C. During her last three years at USAID, she served as the Counselor to the Agency, USAID's most Senior Foreign Service Officer, and advised the administrator and senior leadership on global development policies and management issues. She served in Haiti, Nicaragua, Russia, Colombia and her last assignment in USAID/Washington she led the Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance bureau.

This week we're in Tāmaki Makaurau where one of the largest and most vibrant celebrations of Pacific Island cultures, returns this weekend.

A not so fallow weekend with PWR semis, mad URC results and plenty more to cover... patreon.com/bloodandmud for full episodes, bonus content, and other stuff besides Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dennis Hulbert has had a very successful career for 39 years with the U.S.D.A Forest Service as the Region 5 Aviation Officer representing California and Pacific Islands. After retiring he began to focus on his lifelong passion as a musician and his work with the music group that he founded 33 years ago, Machaira. Working with such notable musicians as John McFee from Doobie Brothers, Billy Kirchen from Commander Cody, Dennis is looking to take his band to a new level. This current journey is allowing Dennis the opportunity to work/record with many great players: Marc Russo- from Doobie Brothers, Mic Gillette from Tower Of Power, Michael Hossack- from Doobie Brothers, Brent Bourgeois from Bourgeois Tagg, Scott Joss from Merle Haggard, and Keith Edwards from Ricky Skaggs, to name a few. Dennis is devoting his time to developing and managing the Machaira band and the Go Girls of Machaira. Along with co-managing Machaira Entertainment, a multi facet entertainment endeavor. Dennis was our guest on Episode 154 of the Agents of Innovation podcast. Learn more about him and his band Machaira at: https://www.coopdeville.com and their YouTube page at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_2eojoSgKJKcF_FzMd-iTg You can watch this full episode on YouTube podcast: https://youtu.be/O2IJrOYxJs8 Follow the Agents of Innovation podcast on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/innovationradio/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/agentinnovation Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AgentsOfInnovationPodcast You can support this podcast and our Fearless Journeys community on our Patreon account: www.patreon.com/fearlessjourneys You can also learn more about how to join our network through the Fearless Journeys community at: https://www.fearlessjourneys.org/ 0:00 Episode Intro 2:46 Introducing Dennis Hulbert 3:16 Work for the U.S. Forest Service 4:58 Innovating in the fire retardant space 7:43 Be a good team leader 8:22 The inspiration to go into the U.S. Forestry Service 9:12 Aviation Officer in California and Pacific Islands 11:24 Early days learning music 13:02 Faith music, tours of Russia, American diplomacy 14:00 Surround yourself with good people 14:14 Over 40 people have been in the band, world tours, top guest artists 14:35 Nonprofit band, have never charged a penny 15:25 Taking band to the next level 16:10 11-person band, seasoned professionals, and a movie 18:09 A future reality TV show? 19:03 California, Montana, and tours 19:46 New album: Life is a Rock and Roll Circus 21:51 The business of music 26:25 Profiles of other band members 30:52 The origin of the band name, "Machaira" 32:30 New album releases March 2025 and live shows 34:45 Cover of Elvis Presley "Saved" 35:15 Agent of Innovation Matt Stone as Elvis 37:00 Learn by doing, never miss a gig, and practice 39:50 Keys to success

Our cash-strapped, underfunded, overspent defence force is in line for a budget boost, and experts say it can't come soon enoughFrom peacekeeping on the Russia-Ukraine border to defending our own waters, experts say it can't come soon enoughTwo defence experts are warning that New Zealand's ageing navy is woefully inadequate and underfunded when it comes to protecting our waters.Warnings like this have been shrugged off before because we are too far away to worry, but yesterday came news that three Chinese navy ships were sailing in international waters east of Sydney, and could be headed toward Pacific Islands countries, in a move that's been called “unusual” and “provocative”.“We seem to think that if it all goes wrong we'll be safe down here,” former defence minister and NZ First MP, Ron Mark tells The Detail.“The world is a volatile space and it's been increasingly so and the one thing that you can absolutely bank on is that what you think today is going to be the situation tomorrow, will not be.”New Zealand's exclusive economic zone covers 4 million square kilometres of the earth's surface but Mark says the country is not doing enough to look after it.“We think we can protect it by penny-pinching our way forward. The only people who pay are our military personnel,” he says.Victoria University's director of the centre for strategic studies David Capie says the increasingly dangerous world means New Zealand will “have to do a lot for ourselves and working with our ally Australia”.Their warnings came on the same day as it was revealed China's naval ships were sailing 150 nautical miles off Sydney. Defence Minister Judith Collins said the Chinese naval task group was being monitored.Professor Rory Medcalf, of the Australian National University National Security College, told Australia's ABC that “a confronting strategic future is arriving fast”.“It would be hard to find a more tangible sign of the need for Australia to increase defence spending and to sustain our campaign of statecraft aimed at stopping China establishing a military base in the Pacific,” he said.New Zealand's own defence budget is in the spotlight again with Prime Minister Christopher Luxon this week responding to questions about raising it to 2 percent of GDP, which would nearly double the current funding and bring it in line with Australia's allocation. At the same time, US President Donald Trump has been pushing for Nato members to raise their defence spending from 2 to 5 percent…Go to this episode on rnz.co.nz for more details

What would you do to save your home from disappearing? As sea levels rise, the tiny Pacific island nation of Tuvalu mulls a permanent move to the metaverse to save its culture. But not everyone is giving up just yet.

The guys return to Everglades National Park, again looking for a predator that Daniel wants to get too close to: the American Crocodile (Crocodylus acutus). Listen in as Daniel shares some research, busts croc-related myths, and Steve probably gets a little too excited about how crocs deal with salt water. Bill doesn't have much to say, but he's there, too. Enjoy!This episode was recorded on January 7, 2025 on the Bear Lake Trail in Everglades National Park. The last bit where the guys find the croc was also recorded in the Park, at the Flamingo Marina.Episode Notes and LinksAs promised during the episode, Steve is looking into how crocs process and excrete excess salt. As soon as he gets to the bottom of it, we'll share it here.In the meantime, here's what Bill found when he asked DeepSeek: Crocodiles, like many other marine and estuarine reptiles, have specialized salt glands to help them excrete excess salt from their bodies. These glands, known as salt glands or lingual glands (located on their tongues), actively transport salt ions (primarily sodium and chloride) from their bloodstream into the gland ducts. The salt is then excreted as a concentrated saline solution, which is expelled from the body.Crocodiles do not chemically change the salt (sodium chloride) into something else. Instead, they filter and concentrate it, allowing them to maintain proper electrolyte balance in their bodies, especially when living in saltwater environments. This process is crucial for osmoregulation, as it prevents dehydration and helps them survive in both freshwater and saltwater habitats.In summary, crocodiles excrete salt in its original form (sodium chloride) but in a highly concentrated solution, rather than transforming it into a different substance.Sponsors and Ways to Support UsGumleaf Boots, USA (free shipping for patrons)Thank you to Always Wandering Art (Website and Etsy Shop) for providing the artwork for many of our episodes.Support us on Patreon.Check out the Field Guides merch at our Teespring store. It's really a great deal: you get to pay us to turn your body into a billboard for the podcast!Works CitedAdmin, CrocAttack. “Database.” CrocAttack, CrocAttack, 17 July 2023, crocattack.org/database/. Balaguera-Reina, S. A., M. Venegas-Anaya, V. Beltrán-López, A. Cristancho, and L. D. Densmore III 2018. Food habits and ontogenetic dietary partitioning of American crocodiles in a tropical Pacific Island in Central America. Ecosphere 9(9):e02393. 10.1002/ecs2.2393Briggs-Gonzalez VS, Basille M, Cherkiss MS, Mazzotti FJ. American crocodiles (Crocodylus acutus) as restoration bioindicators in the Florida Everglades. PLoS One. 2021 May 19;16(5):e0250510. doi: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34010342/Grigg, Gordon C., et al. Biology and Evolution of Crocodylians. Comstock Publishing Associates, a Division of Cornell University Press ; CSIRO Publishing, 2015. Mazzotti Frank J. , Balaguera-Reina Sergio A. , Brandt Laura A. , Briggs-González Venetia , Cherkiss Mike , Farris Seth , Godahewa Avishka 2022. Natural and Anthropogenic Factors Influencing Nesting Ecology of the American Crocodile in Florida, United States. Frontiers in Ecology and Evolution Vol. 10. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/ecology-and-evolution/articles/10.3389/fevo.2022.904576 ISSN=2296-701XMazzotti, F.J. The American Crocodile in Florida Bay. Estuaries 22, 552–561 (1999). https://doi.org/10.2307/1353217Mazzoti, Frank. “American Crocodiles (Crocodylus Acutus) in Florida.” Myfwc.Com, University of Florida IFAS Extension, myfwc.com/media/1847/americancrocodilesinfl.pdf. Accessed Dec. 2024. Villegas, Alejandro, & Schmitter-Soto, Juan Jacobo. (2008). Feeding habits of the American crocodile, Crocodylus acutus (Cuvier, 1807) (Reptilia: Crocodylidae) in the southern coast of Quintana Roo, Mexico. Acta zoológica mexicana, 24(3), 117-124. Recuperado en 30 de enero de 2025, de http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0065-17372008000300008&lng=es&tlng=en.

In this bulletin, heavy rain prompts evacuation warnings in Queensland, urgent questions are raised over the worst American aviation disaster in decades. And in sport, AFL clubs are encouraged to consider untapped potential in the Pacific Islands

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. In this vintage APEX episode, Host editor Swati Rayasam continues to highlight the podcast Continental Shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owoimaha- Church. They embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show. Episode Transcripts – Anti-blackness in the PI Community with Courtney-Savali Andrews and Jason Finau Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Swati Rayasam: [00:00:35] Good evening everyone. You're listening to APEX express Thursday nights at 7:00 PM. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm the special editor for this episode. Tonight, we're going to continue to highlight the podcast continental shifts created by bi-coastal educators Gabriel Anthony Tanglao and Estella Owemma Church who embark on a voyage in search of self, culture and the ancestors. Last time we featured the ConShifts podcast, Gabriel and Estella gave a quick introduction and talked about wayfinding in the context of their work. Tonight on the podcast they're talking about anti-blackness in the PI community with Courtney Savali Andrews and Jason Fennel. Just a quick note that both Courtney and Jason's audio quality isn't the best on this podcast. So it might get a little bumpy. Enjoy the show.   Courtney-Savali Andrews & intro music: [00:01:32] These issues are fluid, these questions are fluid. So I mean, I had to go and try get a PHD just to expand conversation with my family .   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:01:51] How do we uproot anti-blackness in API spaces? On today's episode, we explore this critical question with two incredible guests. Courtney and Jason share their stories, experiences, and reflections on ways our API communities can be more affirming of black identity and black humanity.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:13] What up, what up? Tālofa lava, o lo'u igoa o Estella. My pronouns are she/her/hers, sis, and uso.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:02:23] What's good, family? This is Gabriel, kumusta? Pronouns he/him.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:02:29] I have the great pleasure tonight of introducing our guest today, Jason Finau and Courtney-Savali Andrews. Jason is a social worker with a focus on mental health and substance abuse based in San Francisco. Courtney is an assistant professor of musicology at Oberlin College in Ohio. But I also want to be very intentional about not centering professions above who we are and who we come from. So I'm going to go to Jason first. Jason, please share with us who you are, how you identify and who are your people.   Jason Finau: [00:02:58] Hi everyone. Estella, Gabriel, again, thank you so much for hosting us in this space. My name is Jason. I identify as black and Samoan. My father is a black American from Mississippi and my mother is from American Samoa, specifically in the village of Nua and Sektonga. As a military, brat kind of grew up back and forth between Hawaii and Southern California. So I have a very strong love for the ocean and where my peoples come from. So, very excited to be on your podcast.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:03:27] [Speaking Samoan] Tālofa lava I am Courtney-Savali Andrews from Seattle, Washington. I identify as an African American Samoan. My father is from Seattle, born and raised in Seattle, from Opelika, Alabama. That's where his roots are, and my mother is from American Samoa from the villages of Nwoma Sitsona and Aminawe. And Jason and I are maternal cousins.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:03:59] I did not know that. [Laughs] Good to know. Actually, just for some context, Jason and Courtney, you were one of my blessings in 2020. I received an email message about a space called Black + Blue in the Pacific, and it was a flier for a Zoom gathering with other black Pacifica peoples and I jumped on the call, not knowing what to expect, but it was only one of two times I can remember in my entire life feeling truly seen as black Samoan, and not having to separate those two or shrink any part of myself or who I am. So Jason, can you please share what the space is about and how it came to be?   Jason Finau: [00:04:42] Sure. That warms my heart that that was your reaction to participating in that space. So this was kind of born out of all of the protests against racial injustices across the country, especially with George Floyd and the other countless, unfortunately, countless deaths of black men and women at the hands of police brutality. And EPIC, which is the Empowering Pacific Island Communities, a nonprofit organization out in Long Beach reached out to me to kind of talk about how we can address anti-blackness within the Pacific Island communities in speaking with Tavae Samuelu, who is the executive director of EPIC and Teresa Siagatonu who is an amazing creative poet, artist, everything. We got together, started talking about like, well what was the real purpose for this group? Why are they reaching out to me specifically in the work that I do? And I think that part of that came from the fact that I am a licensed clinical social worker and that I do have a background in mental health and working in trauma, generational trauma and looking at how we as human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that we as black human beings look to take care of ourselves in a community that doesn't value who we are and what that looks like for those of us who belongs to two different communities, one being the black and then the other being the Pacific Island community. And then even, you know, bringing that down even further to the, within the Pacific Island community, being in the Polynesian community and then being specifically in the Samoan community.   So in talking with that, the first person I thought about when they asked me to facilitate a group where we can gather other individuals who identified as being black and Pacific Islander, the first person I thought about co-facilitating this group with was my cousin Courtney-Savali Andrews. Just given the fact that she has done so much in research and education and understanding about PI cultures, with the work that she's done here in the States, as well as out in the Pacific, out in New Zealand and Samoa, and I'll let her talk more about that, but this is another part of the reasons why I thought about her instantly, and also because she and I have had these conversations about what it means to be black and Samoan, and to identify as both, and to sometimes have to navigate being one over the other in spaces, and even in spaces where It's a white space and having to figure out like which one are we like code switching between. So in thinking about this group and in thinking about this space, you know, one of the larger conversations that came out of those who engage in this group, that we have every second Tuesday of the month is that representation of seeing other folks who are also black and Pacific Islander who aren't related to us. And so these are the conversations that Courtney and I have had. I've had the same conversations with other first cousins who also happened to be black and Samoan, but I've never actually have met like one hand I can count on how many times I've met another person who identified as black and Pacific Islander. And so being able to host this space and to focus it, to start off that focus on anti-blackness and to talk about how we're all working to deal with what it means to say Black Lives Matter when someone who visually presents as Samoan or someone who visually presents as Tongan or any other of the Pacific Islands. Like, what does it mean for them to say Black Lives Matter, when those of us who identify as both black and Pacific Islanders aren't really feeling how that message is as substantial as they may be trying to, to come across.   Being able to gather in a space where we see other folks who look like us, who shared experiences that were so similar to what we have shared and what we have gone but also very different. And looking at how, you know, some folks grew up identifying primarily with the Samoan culture, whereas other folks grew up primarily identifying with the black culture and not being able to reconcile either one. So seeing that spectrum of experiences was able to provide us with an opportunity to grow for each other, to support each other, and to learn from each other. I was very thankful and grateful for having, for EPIC being able to step in and seeing that as an organization that does focus on empowering Pacific Island communities that they understood that when we look at the micro communities within that larger macro level of a PI community, looking at that individual black and PI cohort and understanding that that experience is different than the general experience. And so they wanted to make sure that we're facilitating those conversations, that we're holding safe spaces for those conversations, and that we're encouraging those conversations. So I really do appreciate them so much for that, and not taking it upon themselves to tell us how we should be engaging in these conversations, how we should be feeling, and asking us what we should be doing to get PIs to understand the impact of anti-blackness, within the, in the PI community for us personally.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:09:29] And as you were talking, I was laughing at myself thinking, yeah, I can count on one hand too, aside from my brothers, the other black Samoans or Polys I know, and I had an experience in college as a freshman, Cal State Northridge, in my EOP cohort. I met another Leilani, Leilani is my middle name, I met another Leilani who happened to be half black, half Samoan, also from South LA. And we saw each other and ran to each other like we were long lost siblings or something [laughs] and we just knew, and it was the first time I had seen someone who looked like me that was not The Rock. [Jason laughs] Like, the only person to look to, that was yeah. I don't know, it wasn't enough to have, you know, The Rock as my only representation. I appreciate him, but definitely wasn't enough. And shout out to EPIC and Tavae, because I think I mentioned earlier, being in Black + Blue was, it was like the second time in my life. I can say that I felt seen and one of the first times I felt seen as Samoan was at 30. I happen to be in a workshop led by Tavae on organizing PI communities. That was the first time I met her, but I left her session like in tears because I felt a whole part of whatever was happening in the conversation, the festivities, I could be like my full self.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:11:00] And those spaces are so important for us, right? To have that community, to be able to connect. So Jason, I appreciate you sharing that origin story of Black + Blue. And my question for Courtney actually, to bring in some of your experience into the space. Why was it important to create or forge a space such as this one with Black + Blue?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:11:22] Well, I will say that I've had the privilege of a different experience having met several African American and African Pacific Islanders in Seattle through my experience in the US. And I mean, this goes all the way back to my childhood. I went to a predominantly, and this is going to sound pretty interesting, but in the 70s, I went to a predominantly Filipino-Italian parish that was budding a Samoan congregation and that particular congregation was connected to the Samoan congregational church that my mother was affiliated with. So, of course, this is family based, right? But growing up in that particular setting, I was affiliated with many cultural dance groups, particularly Polynesian dance troupes and such, and through those various communities I would run into many particularly Samoan and African American children. So that was something that was pretty normalized in my upbringing. On the other side of that, my father's family was very instrumental in various liberation movements, affiliations with the Black Panthers. And so I also grew up in a very black nationalist leaning family. So, I mean, I couldn't run away from just anything that had to do with considering identity politics and what it meant to be “both and” so the wrestle started really early with me. I also want to say that because I was indoctrinated in so many questions of what it meant to be whatever it is that I was at the time. Cause you know these issues are fluid and the questions are fluid. So that extended all the way throughout even my educational journey having pursued not just a musical degree, but also degrees in cultural studies. It was the only place that I could really wrestle and engage with literature that I was already introduced to as a child, but to, you know, have opportunities to deep dive into that literature, highlighting certain figures, engaging with the writers of these literature. So by the time I got to college, it was piano performance and Africana studies for me. In the arts, through my music through musical theater performance, my Polynesian dance background, it all just kind of jumbled up into this journey of always seeking spaces that allow for that type of inquiry.   So, after undergrad, this turns into a Fullbright study and then eventually a PHD in Music and Pacific and Samoan studies. In that journey, I did not think that the outcome would be as rich as it became. I did seek out one of my supervisors, who was Teresia Teaiwa. A very prominent poet, spoken word artist and scholar, and she was the founder of the Pacific Studies program at Victoria University in Wellington, New Zealand. So I went to study underneath her. She actually is African American Banaban so from the Kiribati islands and amongst her like astounding output of work, she reached out to me and four other African American Pacific women historian artists, like we all share the same general identities to start an organization, or at least an affinity conversationalist group, called Black Atlantic, Blue Pacific. This was back in 2014 when she started the conversation with us again, I had an opportunity to now, across the world, connect with other African American Pacific peoples that were rooted in other spaces. So I was the one who was, you know, born and raised in the US But then we had Joy Enomoto an African American Hawaiian who's based in Hawaii. Ojeya Cruz, African American [?] and LV McKay, who is African American Maori based in Aotearoa. So we got together and started having very specific conversations around our responses to Black Lives Matter as it was gaining much momentum in 2015. And it was my supervisor Teresia, that said, “You have to open up about how you feel,” and particularly because I was so far away from what home was for me, she offered up a space for me to not only explore further what my response to the movement was, but also just my identity in tandem with the rest of them. So we actually began to create performance pieces along with scholarly writing about that particular moment and went to this festival of Pacific arts in 2016 which was in Guam and pretty much had a very ritualistic talk. It wasn'tinteractive, it was our space to share what our experience and stories were with an audience who did not have a chance to engage with us on it. It was us just claiming our space to say that we exist in the first place. And that was a very powerful moment for me and for the others. So to connect this back to four years later, when Jason reaches out about Black + Blue in the Pacific, the name of this group actually came from the publication that we put together for that 2016 FESPAC presentation. It really was a moment that I actually didn't think would extend out in the ways that it has, but it also felt like a duty to extend that conversation and Teresia Teaiwa has since passed, but it felt like, you know, this is what, this is the work that, that I've given you to do. So it just felt very natural to join with my cousin in this work and realize what this conversation could be across the water again, back home in the US.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:18:09] Listening to you I was I don't want to say envious, but I didn't have that same experience growing up. And, you know, oftentimes I wonder where I would be in my identity crisis, which seems like it has lasted for so long, if I had shared in similar experience as a child. I grew up in predominantly black communities and all black apostolic school and I just, I didn't have other, I mean I ran up to the one girl I saw as a college freshman and squeezed her. So that tells you a lot, but I shared similar experiences as an undergrad or in college in majoring in black studies, majoring in theater, musical theater and that being the space where I got to at least express some of who I am or who I want it to be, but definitely trying to create what you experienced or had for my daughter now, trying to make sure that she gets to be as pro black and black and proud as she wants to be rocking her Angela Davis fro while also wearing her Puletasi, trying really hard to make sure that she has all of that. Growing up, I never felt like I was welcomed in Samoan or Poly spaces or fully in black spaces either. I felt like folks had to make a point to other me or erase part of my identity for their convenience. And it's only now that I am learning who my Samoan relatives are, what are our namesake or the villages that my family comes from and reconnecting with aunts and uncles and my grandparents through the powers of Facebook. But over the years, it's been a long like push and pull. And it's because our last names are, our names are very distinctive. And so when you put that name in there suddenly like, “Oh, I found all these relatives.” Like I didn't have to do the ancestry thing because you put the name in on Facebook and all of a sudden you find all your cousins and you're seeing childhood pictures where like your own kid can't tell who's who so I know we're related. You know what I mean? But anyway, like over the years it's been this like back and forth of me deleting relatives and then, you know, letting them come back because I don't know how to broach the conversation about their anti-blackness. I don't know what to tell them when they post something that is very racist and absolutely not okay. And I don't know what to do other than, you know, I'm just going to delete you and then maybe 2 years from now, I'll, as you as a friend, again, we could try this one more time. And I have one aunt in particular, a great aunt who there was just a misunderstanding. I didn't respond to a message right away after not seeing her since I was maybe 5 or 6. I can't remember. But in my 20s, I'm getting married, she's sending me messages and I didn't respond right away. And the response I got included her calling me the N word. And so then I'm like, “Oh, okay.” I was like, trying to open up and let you all back into my life. And here we are again. So I'm done. And so I spent a lot of time, like picking and choosing who I was going to let in or not and so I've started this journey at 30. I want to learn my language. I want to figure out who is in my family tree. Who are my people? Where do I come from? And be selective about who I choose to actually grow relationships with. Like I can still know who they are, where they come from, where I come from, what my roots are, and also make choices about who gets to be in my life. And I'm only just now realizing that at 32, as I try to learn my language and reclaim what is mine, what belongs to me. All of that aside, can you relate to any of that? And if so, is there an experience that you feel comfortable sharing?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:22:00] I absolutely relate to that, to the extent, I mean, I had to go and try to get a PhD just to expand conversation with my family and I had to do it across the water. I got to a point where, just asking questions, about, you know, cultural matters, or even trying to navigate my way through a family event, while I've had many wonderful experiences, just trying to, again dig deep to understand why are we who we are, why are our family issues what they are those kinds of things, I would always hit a particular wall that was met with either like, “Why do you even care?” Or “Oh, that's not important.” But it was, this is not important for you. And I, you know, took that with a lot of like, “Well, what's that mean? I can learn anything.” And then again, that, that comes from this, like I said, black nationalist attitude of I am wholly wonderful, just in my skin as I am. Therefore, I'm smart. I'm, you know, all of those kinds of things. So it became a learning quest for me to say, not only am I going to go after learning as much as I can. I'm going to get the highest degree you could possibly get in it only to now reach a point. I mean, I'm 10 years into this program and it's been the one-two punch all the way through. And now I'm on the other side of this journey, realizing that even in that quest, this really doesn't change many of my conversations if I go back into my family, nor is it really looked upon as a notable achievement, which is to be questioned because it's like, I've done everything that I possibly can. But at the same time, it really does feel like this is the black experience as it connects to respectability politics. On another side of thing I suppose, try to aspire to be a race woman for the Pacific and specifically the Samoan identity. And that's just a really, really tall order. Right. All that to say, yes, I absolutely identify and realize that my conversation can only be had with those who are open to have it. I think that right now in this particular moment, we have more Pacific peoples and more people in our families that are willing to at least sit at the table and have conversation because they have new language around what they are wanting to know and what they would like to see for their own community. So that's really, really refreshing and inspiring.   Jason Finau: [00:24:46] I agree. I definitely [have] a lot of experience and feeling in feeling othered and feeling that my black identity was conveniently left out in a lot of conversations and a lot of learning lessons, I think, growing up. In contrast to Courtney's upbringing, I was born and raised on the Samoan side. It was everything Samoan related. My first language was Samoan. My mom stopped speaking Samoan to me at home because she recognized that I was struggling in school early on like in pre- k, kindergarten, first grade, because I couldn't keep up with the other students and they didn't have ESL for Samoan speaking kids. So, I think as a protective factor, my mother just started to distance me from the Samoan language in order to excel in school. And I think that a lot of having been able to grow up in a very large Samoan family and engaging in a lot of the traditional activities and cultural practices and doing the dances and going to a local [?] church. Having that has always been great but I think that seeing the way or listening to the way that other Samoans would refer to their own family members who were black and Pacific Islander or black and Samoan in those families, a lot of the times the language is just so derogatory, but they, that language never used to, or was never directed at me. And I think that part of that was because that people knew who my mother was and they knew who my grandparents were and I think I was insulated from a lot of that negative talk, negative behaviors against those who identified as black and then like the children that were products of those Samoan and black relationships. I reflect on that quite often because I think that when listening to a lot of the stories that I've been able to bear witness to in our black and PI group. You know, like I mentioned before that we are seeing like two different, two different upbringings, two different ways that people experience their lives as being black and Samoan. And for me, it was like, because I was wrapped in that Samoan culture, that black identity of mine was never really addressed or talked about. That then it made me feel like I just, I'm a Samoan boy. I don't identify as someone who was black. I didn't identify as someone who was black or was comfortable with identifying as someone who was black until my 20s. Late 20s, early 30s, you know when I introduced myself, it was always Samoan first black second, everything that I did, instead of joining the Black Student Union group, I joined all the Asian and Pacific Island groups at any school that I went to again, as I said, being a military brat, I went to a lot of schools growing up before college. And then in college a lot of different universities. And when I went to those programs, like in high school and junior high, I'd always be, I would always join the Asian Pacific Island groups because I didn't feel comfortable being a part of the black, any of the Black Student Unions or any black affinity groups, because again like I said my for me internally, I was Samoan and that's where I wanted to be. I didn't recognize for myself because I could see it in the mirror that I presented as someone like a black male and I think that part of the reason why I also steered more towards Asian and Pacific Island groups was because I wanted people to see me as this black guy walking into your Asian and Pacific Island group, who also is Samoan but you don't know that until I tell you. And that was for me to share and for me to just sit there for them to stare at me until I made that truth known. And that was my way of addressing that issue within the PI community. But it was also a way for me to run away from that black identity to hide from that black identity because I wasn't, I didn't want to be identified that way when I was in the API group. It's because I wanted to be identified as Samoan and not black, even though I presented. So in thinking about how a lot of those conversations went, I think one situation in particular really stuck out for me. And that's when I did a study abroad in New Zealand during undergrad and, you know, there's this whole thing about the term mea uli in Samoan to describe someone who is black and Samoan and that was the term that I remember using and being told. As a kid, growing up, my mom used it, didn't seem like there was an issue. All family members, everyone in the community is using it. So I just assumed that is exactly how it was. I never had the wherewithal to think about how to break down that word, mea uli, and think of it as like a black thing. So I was in New Zealand studying abroad and I met some students, some Samoan students in one of my classes. They invited me to their church, the local [?] church. I was like, oh great, I'll go to church while I'm here. Satisfy my mom. She's back home in Oceanside, California, telling me that I need to go to church, that I need to focus on my studies. So I do this. I go with them. And as they're introducing me to folks at their church, when I describe myself as mea uli I mean, you can hear a pin drop. It was like, these people were I don't know, embarrassed for me, embarrassed for themselves to hear me use that word to describe myself. It was just, I was, I don't think I've ever been more embarrassed about my identity than I was in that one moment, because then my friend had to pull me off to the side, just like “Oh, we don't use that word here.” Like she's like, schooling me on how derogatory that term was for those Samoans in New Zealand who identify as black and Samoan. And mind you, the friends that I was with, they were, they're both sides of the family are Samoan, and so this is a conversation that they're having with me as people who aren't, who don't identify as black and Samoan. And so then when I, I brought that back to my mom and I was just like, “Did you know this? Like, how could you let me go through life thinking this, saying this, using this word, only to come to this point in my adult life where now I'm being told that it's something derogatory.” That was a conversation that my mom and I had that we were forced to have. And I think for her, very apologetic on her end, I think she understood where I was coming from as far as like the embarrassment piece. But from her, from her perspective and her side of it, she didn't speak English when she first got to the United States either. She graduated from nursing school in American Samoa, had been in American Samoa that whole time, born and raised, came to the United States, California, didn't speak a lick of English, and was just trying to figure out her way through the whole navigating a prominently white society and trying to figure out English. And so I think language was one of the least of her worries, as far as that might have been because it's just like coupled on with a bunch of things. I mean, this is a Samoan woman who doesn't speak very much English, who is now in the military, in the Navy. So, in an occupation that is predominantly male, predominantly white and predominantly English speaking. And so, for her, there was a lot of things going on for herself that she had to protect herself from. And I think she tried to use some of those same tactics to protect me. But not understanding that there is now this added piece of blackness, this black identity that her child has to navigate along with that Samoan identity. And so, we've had some really great conversations around the choices that she had to make that she felt like in the moment were the right choices to keep me safe, to get me what I needed in order to graduate high school on time unlike a lot of our other family members, to go to college, you know, again, being the first one to have a bachelor's degree and the first one to have a master's degree, within our family tree. And so, a lot of the successes that I've had in life to be able to get to this point and have these conversations and to facilitate a group like black and PI, Black + Blue in the Pacific and to be on a podcast with all of you, were the sacrifices and choices that my mom had to make back.   I say all that because those, the choices that she had to make, she wasn't able to make them in an informed way that would have promoted my black identity along with my Samoan identity. And so having to navigate that on my own. I didn't grow up with my dad, so I don't have any connection. I didn't have any connection to the black side of my family. And so I didn't have, and then growing up in Hawaii and in Southern California, primary like San Diego, in the education piece, like the majority of my teachers were white, or in San Diego, a lot of them were Latin, Latinx, and then in Hawaii, a lot of them, they were either white or they were some type of Asian background like a lot of Chinese, a lot of Japanese teachers, but I didn't have any, I never had a Polynesian teacher, Pacific Islander teacher, and I never had a black teacher until I got to college, and then seeing that representation also had an impact on me. I think one of my most favorite sociology professors at California State University in San Marcos. Dr. Sharon Elise was just this most phenomenal, eye opening, unapologetically black woman. And it was just like the first time I was ever able to like be in the company of that type of presence and it was glorious. And I think it was part of the reason why I switched from pre med to social work. In thinking about, and going back to your original question about an experience of being othered or feeling like your black identity is erased in that company. Like I said, I walk confidently amongst and within Samoan communities, but not nearly as confidently as I do in black spaces. And even when I'm in those Samoan spaces, I'll walk into it, but then the first thing I'll do is share my last name. And then the moment I say my last name, then it's like, okay, now we can all breathe. I've been accepted. They know who I am because of who my family is based on the name that I provide. When I go into a black space, I don't have that. I don't have that convenience. I don't have that luxury. And so I think that's another reason why I was okay with allowing that black identity, my black identity to be ignored, to be silenced, to be othered because it was just easier. I think I had a lot more luxuries being on the Samoan side, than being on the black side. And now where I am today, both personally and professionally, a much, much more confident conversation can be had for myself, with myself about my identity. And then having those same conversations with my family and with my friends and in thinking about hard conversations with family members around anti-blackness, around the use of derogatory language, or around just the fact like, because we are half Samoan that we could never fully appreciate the Samoan culture and tradition. But I look at my cousins who are full Samoan, who barely speak the language, who barely graduated from high school or like are in situations where they aren't able to fully utilize an identity that can bring them the fullness or richness of their background. I'm like, all right, well, if you want to have conversations about someone who was half versus full, and then looking at those folks who are back on the island and what their perception of full Samoans are on the continental US and all of those things, like, there's so many layers between the thought processes of those who consider themselves Samoan or even just Pacific Islander, and what does that mean to them based on where they're from. And then you add that biological piece, then it's like, okay, well those who are on the continental US or outside of American Samoa or the independent nation of Samoa, what does that mean for them to be Samoan [unintelligible].   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:35:15] One of the things that you said that really resonated with me was when you were sharing the story of how your mother had, as you said, tactics to protect you as she navigated in these predominantly white spaces. That reminds me of a quote by Dr. Cornel West, who talked about having our cultural armor on. And when Courtney was sharing her story, I was thinking about how there's also educational armor and linguistic armor, and we put on layers of armor to protect ourselves in these white supremacist institutions and spaces. So both of you sharing your story and journey really was powerful for me, and also grounding it in the formative years of your educational journey and your race consciousness journey. One of the pivotal factors in my evolution and my race consciousness was being a part of the Black Student Union in my undergraduate school. And I'm Filipino, my mother's from Manila, my father's from Pampanga province. And it was actually the black community that embraced and raised my consciousness around my own liberation as an Asian person, as a Filipino person. So I'm a student in many ways, and my intellectual and spiritual evolution was really informed by the black liberation movement.   Swati Rayasam: [00:36:43] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online at kpfa.org. Coming up is “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape.   SONG   Swati Rayasam: [00:37:03] That was “Find my Way” by Rocky Rivera on her Nom de Guerre album. And before that was “March 4 Education” on the Anakbayan Long Beach May Day mixtape. And now back to the ConShifts podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:44:12] So this is all very powerful and grounds us back in the topic that we're trying to unpack. So I have a question for both of you on how do we begin to interrogate anti-blackness in Asian and Pacific Island communities, specifically among Polynesians, Asians, Micronesians. How might we uproot anti-blackness in the spaces that we find ourselves?   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:44:36] I think we need to start with identifying what blackness is in these conversations before we get to the anti part. Are we talking about skin? Are we talking about, you know, cultural expression? Are we talking about communities, black communities within our own respective nations? So one of the things that in thinking through this, today's conversation, you know, I was thinking that, you know, starting with identifying our indigenous black communities at home, you know, in pre-colonial times. And even as we have the development of the nation state, just seeing where people are in their understandings of those communities would be a wonderful place to start before we even get to the drama that is white supremacy in the US and how that monster manifests here and then spreads like a rash to the the rest of the colonial world. I would really start with like, what are we talking about in terms of black and blackness before we go into how people are responding in a way to be against it.   Jason Finau: [00:45:52] Yeah, that was solid Court. Definitely providing that definition of what blackness is in order to figure out exactly what anti-blackness is. Kind of adding to that is looking around at the various organizations that are out there. When we go back to the earlier examples of being in API spaces, but primarily seeing more Asian faces or Asian presenting faces, thinking about, and I'm just thinking about like our Black + Blue group, like, there are so many of us who identify as black and Pacific Islander or black and Asian. And yet the representation of those folks in spaces where nonprofit organizations, community organizations are trying to do more to advance the API agenda items to make sure that we get more access to resources for our specific communities, whether that's education, healthcare, employment resources, all of that. When we look at those organizations who are pushing that for our community, you just see such a lack of black and brown faces who are part of those conversations. And I would have to say that for those organizations and for the people who will participate in any of those activities that they promote. To look around and not see one person who presents as black and may identify as black and PI seems kind of problematic to me because, you know, I used to think that growing up in the 80s and 90s that outside of my cousins, there were no other black and PI people. I'm learning now as I get older and again with our Black + Blue group, that there are so many of us, I mean, there are folks who are older than I am. There are a number of people around the same age. And then there's so many young kids. And so for none of those folks to feel, and that is another, that was a common theme, from our group was that a lot of the folks just didn't feel comfortable in PI spaces to be if they were black in and Hawaiians might be comfortable in the Hawaiian space to speak up and say anything or in whatever Pacific Island space that they also belong to is that they just didn't feel comfortable or seen enough to be a part of those. I think you know, once we identify what blackness is within our within the broader API community, we can also look at well, you know, why aren't there more people like us, those of us who do identify as black and PI, why aren't more of us involved in these conversations, being asked to be a part of these conversations, and helping to drive a lot of the messages and a lot of the agendas around garnering resources for our community.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:48:18] One of the pieces that's really present for me, when you started asking the question on how we define blackness before we begin the conversation around anti-blackness reminded me of Steve Biko learning about the black consciousness movement in South Africa and the anti apartheid movement. I had the opportunity to travel to South Africa for global learning fellowship and started to learn more about the anti apartheid movement. But when Steve Biko discussed black consciousness as an attitude of mind and a way of life, it got me thinking in one direction while at the same time in this conversation that we're having here, when we talk about colorism with post colonial society, the Philippines being one of them, how does colorism show up? I'm wrestling that. So I just appreciate you bringing that question into the space.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:49:05] So Black + Blue, it's an affinity space for black Polys and I need to just say thank you for providing the space. It has been therapeutic and healing and again, everything I knew I needed and had no idea where to find. So I appreciate it so much. So I'm wondering, I guess, how do we create similar spaces for other folks? Or is there a need to like, does Black + Blue just exist for us? And is that enough? Or do we need to start thinking about doing more to create similar spaces for other folks? And I'll leave that to whoever wants to respond before my final question.   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:49:45] I'll just jump in and say that I think that, you know, any opportunity for folks to gather to create and wrestle through dialogue is absolutely necessary at this particular point in time with social media and a fairly new cancel culture that exists. It's really a detriment to having people understand how to connect and even connect through disagreement. So I think that there should always be space made for people to have tough conversations, along with the celebratory ones. So I'm always all for it.   Jason Finau: [00:50:23] Yeah, I would agree. I think if I've learned anything out of being able to facilitate the Black + Blue group that there is just such a desire for it and unknown and even an unknown desire. I think people, you know, didn't realize they needed it until they had it. And I think it feels unique now it being a black and Blue space, Black + Blue Pacific space. But I can see that need kind of going outside of us. How do we take the conversations that we're having with each other, the learning and the unlearning, the unpacking of experiences, the unpacking of feelings and emotions and thoughts about what we've all been through to share that with the broader Pacific Island community in a way that can steer some people away from some of the negative, behaviors that we find that can be associated in speaking of people who identify as black or African American? But I can see that as not just for those who identify as black and Pacific Islander, but also for parents of children who are black and Pacific Islander, and for the youth. So like right now our Black + Blue group is geared towards the adult population of those who identify as black and PI. But then also thinking about like the younger generation, those who are in high school or in middle school or junior high school, who are also maybe going through the same things that we all went through at that point and needing a safe space to have those conversations and kind of process those things. Because they may have a parent who may not understand, you know, if they only have their Pacific Island parent, or they're primarily identifying with their black side because they don't feel comfortable with the Pacific Island side, whatever their journey is being able to provide that for them, but then also providing a space for parents to understand where their kids may be coming from, to hear from experiences and learn and potentially provide their kids with the resources to navigate very complex ideas. One's identity journey is not simple. It is not easy. It is not quick. And so it's hard. And that is not something, I mean, and I don't expect every parent, regardless of what their children's ethnic background is, to understand what that means like for their kids. But to be able to have a space where they can talk it out with other parents. But I also see that for our Latinx and PI community. I see that for our Asian and PI community, those who identify as both being Asian and Pacific Islander. For me, that just comes from a personal experience because my mom is one of nine. And I think out of the nine, three of the kids had children with other Samoan partners, and the rest had either a black partner, has a Mexican partner, has a partner who identifies as Chinese and Japanese, and has another partner who is white. But I have cousins who are in this space, and so we can all share in the fact that, although we may not all physically identify or people may not be able to physically recognize us as Samoans, that is what we all share in common. So having that for them as well. And then, you know, right now we're in COVID. So it's been a blessing and a curse to be in this pandemic, but I think the blessing part was that we were able to connect with so many people in our group who are from across the states and even across the waters. Once we're able to move past this pandemic and go back to congregating in person, being able to have groups within your respective cities to be able to go and talk in person, whether it's in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, you know, folks out in Hawaii and like in Aotearoa. Who wants to continue engaging with other folks that they feel comfortable identifying or who they also identify with. Do I think that there is a need? Absolutely. And I can see it just across the board whether people know it or not, I think once we put it in front of them, that is where they'll see like, “Yeah, we need that.”   Courtney-Savali Andrews: [00:53:57] I just wanted to also highlight, you know, a point of significance for me with this group and hopefully one that would serve as a model for other organizations and groups that may develop after this, is modeled off of cultural studies, which is the process of actually remembering and relearning things that we've things and peoples that we've forgotten and with Black + Blue in the Pacific, it's really important to me to also include, and keep the Melanesian, the black Pacific voice in that conversation to model for other peoples of color to reach out to black peoples at home, or regionally to understand and again, remember those particular cultural networks that existed in pre colonial times and even sometimes well into colonial times, as current as you know, the 1970s black liberation movements to highlight Asian and Pacific and, and, and, and other peoples that were non black, but very instrumental in that fight for liberation as a whole, but starting with black liberation first. So, I think this is a really good time in an effort towards uprooting anti-blackness to highlight just how old our relationships with black peoples and black peoples in relationship with Asians and Pacific peoples, South Asians, Southeast Asians, it just goes on and on, to say that we've been in community positively before, so we can do it again.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:55:52] That is the most perfect way to wrap up the episode in reminding us to remember, and reminding us that all of our liberation is definitely tied to black liberation that they're inextricably linked together. Thank you, Courtney. Thank you, Jason. Fa'a fatai te le lava thank you for listening.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:13] Salamat thank you for listening.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:14] We want to thank our special guests, Jason and Courtney, one more time for rapping with us tonight. We appreciate you both for being here and really helping us continue to build the groundwork for Continental Shifts Podcast.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:24] Continental Shift Podcast can be found on Podbean, Apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:30] Be sure to like and subscribe on YouTube for archive footage and grab some merch on our website.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:36] Join our mailing list for updates at conshiftspodcast.com. That's C-O-N-S-H-I-F-T-S podcast dot com and follow us at con underscore shifts on all social media platforms.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:56:52] Dope educators wayfinding the past, present, and future.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:56:56] Keep rocking with us fam, we're gonna make continental shifts through dialogue, with love, all together.   Estella Owoimaha-Church: [00:57:02] Fa'fetai, thanks again. Tōfā, deuces.   Gabriel A. Tanglao: [00:57:04] Peace, one love.   Swati Rayasam: [00:57:07] Please check out our website, kpfa.org backslash program backslash apex express. To find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Axpress is produced by Miko Lee, along with Paige Chung, Jalena Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Kiki Rivera, Nate Tan, Hien Ngyuen, Cheryl Truong, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a great night. The post APEX Express – 1.30.25 Continental Shifts: Anti Blackness in the PI Community appeared first on KPFA.

In the future near-peer and peer fight, salvo competition and missiles will be the preeminent means by which one country will kinetically overwhelm the other in a fight. I discuss the way the US Navy is in an existential hazard of being woefully under-prepared to meet the threat if Western forces go toe toe with regional hegemons in the East or West. Let's anticipate the disasters now that are the Spanish in the English Channel in 1588, the British Royal Navy at Jutland in 1916, and the discovery in WWII all these battleships were not really capital ships, or had adequate armaments, yet their political dimensions compel not only their continuous construction but are the most devastating when lost. The aircraft carrier has been a signature component of US naval power and prestige for more than a century. The utility has continued to diminish since the end of WWII. The tremendous disadvantage of putting so much manpower and treasure into these single use leviathan systems in the modern world of distributed missile and PGM systems, emerging near-peer & peer adversaries and concentration of power in vulnerable systems is a recipe for future disaster. The US Navy surface fleet is in tatters and shattered by readiness, maintenance and armament issues that are critical indicators of a navy totally unprepared. It's time to clean house and fire the admirals and SES personnel. More on the carrier dilemma in Chasing Ghosts Episode #034 and Dispatch #006. References: Gregory Vistica Fall from Glory: The Men Who Sank the U.S. Navy Michael Junge Crimes of Command: in the United States Navy, 1945-2015 Gerry Doyle Carrier Killer: China's Anti-Ship Ballistic Missiles and Theater of Operations in the early 21st Century David Lee Russell Early U.S. Navy Carrier Raids, February-April 1942: Five Operations That Tested a New Dimension of American Air Power Jeff Vandenengel Questioning the Carrier: Opportunities in Fleet Design for the U.S. Navy Jeff Vandenengel interview on Midrats with CDR Salamander Ivan Gogin Fighting ships of the PEOPLE LIBERATION ARMY NAVY 1949 - 2023 Jerry Hendrix Retreat From Range: The Rise and Fall of Carrier Aviation Pacific War in WWII James D. Hornfischer Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal James D. Hornfischer The Fleet at Flood Tide: America at Total War in the Pacific, 1944-1945 Ian W. Toll Pacific Crucible: War at Sea in the Pacific, 1941-1942 Ian W. Toll The Conquering Tide: War in the Pacific Islands, 1942–1944 Ian W. Toll Twilight of the Gods: War in the Western Pacific, 1944-1945 Jeffry R. Cox Rising Sun, Falling Skies: The Disastrous Java Sea Campaign of World War II Jeffrey R. Cox Morning Star, Midnight Sun: The Early Guadalcanal-Solomons Campaign of World War II August–October 1942 Jeffrey R. Cox Blazing Star, Setting Sun: The Guadalcanal-Solomons Campaign November 1942–March 1943 Jeffrey R. Cox Dark Waters, Starry Skies: The Guadalcanal-Solomons Campaign, March–October 1943 Samuel Eliot Morrison The Two-Ocean War: A Short History of the United States Navy in the Second World War My Substack Write me at cgpodcast@pm.me

Christopher Luxon's defending the Government's handling of its new stand-off with Kiribati. New Zealand's relationship with the central Pacific Island nation appears to have reached an all-time low. Aid to the country has been put on hold pending a review after the Kiribati President pulled out of a pre-arranged meeting with Foreign Minister Winston Peters last week. The nation continues to form closer ties with China, and the New Zealand government is responding to the "radio silence" by suspending aid to the central Pacific island nation - aid that amounts to more than $100 million over three years. Luxon told Mike Hosking we can't keep sending aid money into Kiribati if we don't have a relationship or dialogue with them. He says the Government has been putting tens of millions of dollars a year into Kiribati, and it needs to be spent effectively. When it comes to tourism, the Prime Minister is hoping the new digital nomad visa reform will boost the industry back to pre-Covid levels. He told Hosking it's something they talked about in opposition, but had other things on their plate to deal with first. Luxon says the sector hasn't bounced back, and is actually turning off growth, which is absolutely unacceptable. The next step, he says, is to ensure New Zealand is at the top of tourists' bucket lists and to strengthen the relations that “went cold” through Covid. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Melissa and Clay pivot this season to the oldest island in the Hawaiian archipelago--Kaua`i. They revisit one of their earliest LAND & PEOPLE interviews with retired botanist Steve Perlman, of the Kaua`i Plant Extinction Prevention Program (PEPP). Steve talks about his love of Pacific island peoples in remote places, his start with the National Tropical Botanical Garden, the thrill of discovering new plants, and climbing the highest sea cliffs in the world to save the last of a species.

Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired marine colonel and author of When China Attacks,  A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat.  This is a two-part episode. Grant's biography: https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/author/grant-newsham/ Book link: https://www.regnery.com/9781684513659/when-china-attacks/ A recent article: https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/the-us-in-the-pacific-getting-the?utm_source=substack&publication_id=746580&post_id=151553726&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=ercjf&triedRedirect=true --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the site Cool Jazz Hot Bossa for the sample of Cool Jazz Hot Bossa. (59:00). Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdWUj2NYDYQ --- Transcript: (Part I) 00:00:05 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. Or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired Marine Colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat. This is the first of a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 GRANT NEWSHAM I was effectively MarforPak's guy in Asia for a number of years. which worked well in both directions. So I was obviously in Japan, but also did a lot of work for them throughout the region, Southeast Asia as well, Taiwan even, which was a lot of fun. 00:01:13 JACK GAINES Yeah. And you've become a foreign policy advocate in the area. 00:01:16 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. At some point, maybe seven or eight years ago, figured I'd actually done enough stuff to maybe have a few ideas. So I started writing and speak a lot as well. So I guess I'm part of the commentariat. But I seem to write about once a week some topic related to often Asian defense, but sometimes economics, politics, sometimes organized crime. And I do get invited to speak here and there and seem to get a number of television or radio interviews as well. That's really cool. I didn't say I get invited to good things, but I do get the occasional invitation. I used to think it was because I had such insight. Someone told me not all that long ago that actually, if you'll say yes to an interview, you're likely to get more of them. Because the people who book them, they just want to get somebody on. And I thought it was because of my particular wisdom. 00:02:07 JACK GAINES of my particular wisdom. 00:02:09 GRANT NEWSHAM I'm joking a little bit. But obviously, you must have something useful to say. But it is funny. There's one place in Singapore that calls me a lot. It's like their CNN. And they've been calling me. Probably eight years at least, or almost every time, I'll tell the presenters that basically they don't know what they're talking about. And I always think, well, this is the last one, but they keep calling me up. They mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:34 JACK GAINES mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:36 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, I can blame things in a way that sort of suits broadcast and that sort of regular people can understand, you know, 00:02:42 GRANT NEWSHAM that sort of regular people can understand, you know, being a regular person myself. 00:02:47 JACK GAINES Yeah, you learn to disagree without offending. 00:02:49 GRANT NEWSHAM Usually. And it's always sort of a relief, actually, when you can have a different look at things. 00:02:56 JACK GAINES That's good. I always thought you were going to say it is a relief sometimes when you just peel the coat off and then yell at them. 00:03:02 GRANT NEWSHAM The facts speak for themselves. Right. And if it's a presenter, their role is different, and they will generally not have the substantive knowledge that most of the people on the show will have. Right. And so much of what I have to say is often not... in line with accepted wisdom, particularly when it comes to Japan. Sure. So it's often that I'll have to present a different take on things, but they don't seem to be offended. 00:03:27 JACK GAINES Right. You mostly talk about Japan in its current defense fashion or in its foreign policy actions. 00:03:33 GRANT NEWSHAM A lot of that because people have a perception of Japan, for example, as a pacifist country. It cannot fight. It's peace loving. Right. etc. They have a nuclear allergy. You know, just the idea of nuclear weapons in Japan is out of the question. You often hear, well, their constitution won't let them fight. And none of those things are actually true. But it's the received wisdom. It's what people think. And when you simply point out the realities of Japan, that ultimately, at the end of the day, it's a country just like every other. And that the stereotypes about it really aren't correct when it comes to defense security. In fact, they use that the Constitution won't let them have a military. You probably heard it. Yeah. That's the idea. And they don't even call it a military. But the fact is they've got a military, which, according to some ratings, is the fifth most powerful in the world. It depends on how you calculate it, of course. But they call it something else. And what is the actual distinction between offensive and defensive weapons? 00:04:35 JACK GAINES It's usually the strike space. If it's inside your own country defending, then it's a defense space. Once you go out and start taking out other people's cities and moving forces in. 00:04:44 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, for example, they don't have much what you call power projection capability very far off their borders. But they do have a submarine fleet, say over 20 submarines. There's no reason you couldn't send them to the coast of China and start sinking ships. 00:04:59 JACK GAINES True. 00:05:00 GRANT NEWSHAM They've got F -16s. You can put long -range missiles on them and you can fly out of ways and cause people a lot of trouble. But their military really, I would say, is not so good at offense. It's not so good at defense either. And that's something that comes as a surprise to a lot of people. 00:05:15 JACK GAINES Well, do they exercise defense and offense? 00:05:18 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, they have exercises, training, and they put on a pretty good show, particularly when they have visitors come. But they really, until very recently, and even now, they can't do joint operations, which means the air, sea, and ground forces. can't operate together. In fact, they don't even have a radio with which they can communicate easily. They have to jury -rig some relations, these connections. And that's something most people don't understand, because you look at it on paper. Japan has 250 ,000 people in its military, and it's got ships, aircraft, all of it modern and good stuff. 150 ,000 people in its ground self -defense force, their army. But it's not even the sum of its whole. If you imagine each of your limbs, your arms and your legs, each doing whatever it wants without the coordinating function provided by a brain. 00:06:10 JACK GAINES Sounds like me dancing. 00:06:12 GRANT NEWSHAM It would be, yeah. I think that I can picture that, whereas I'm more of an Arthur Murray kind of guy. But it's like that. And nobody can believe that because they think, well, this is the Japanese. It's this advanced modern country, big military, the rich country. And I mean, they can't even do these simple things. Right. The short answer is no, except in some limited circumstances. After 60 years of the U .S.-Japan defense relationship, 80 years after World War II, they still cannot do some of the basic things that a military needs to do, or do them very well, put it that way. But they do train, they exercise, the personnel quality is excellent. You know, we tend to say, well, we've got Japan as our ally, Japan has a military. But the reality is that the U .S. and Japanese forces cannot work very well together. There's one exception, and that's the two navies. The U .S. Navy and the Japanese Navy, called the Maritime Self -Defense Force, they actually do work well. And they show what's doable. 00:07:15 JACK GAINES They probably do dynamic exercises as well as structured ones, so they have to change, have to practice new orders and maneuvers. 00:07:22 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, the nature of naval operations is you can go out... into the sea, and you have more freedom to actually do stuff. But part of it actually was when Admiral Arleigh Burke, who was later chief of naval operations for many years, he was in charge in Japan. He basically laid down the ground rules, which was that the American Navy was going to treat the Japanese like friends, like allies. And that set the tone for everything. So they had a more relationship of equals, people who wanted to operate together. And that is why they have a good relationship today. in my opinion. So as a result, after all these decades, the two militaries are not really very good at operating together. There's no joint headquarters. There never has been in Japan. At best, they've operated in isolation. Do they recognize they don't have a joint access? Oh, they know. The Japanese military knows this. And US Indo -PACOM has not pushed the issue. And then you had... The State Department side, on the civilian side, people saying, well, if we ask the Japanese to get better at defense matters, well, they'll get angry. And if they do, then the Chinese will be mad. So you have the U .S. on the U .S. side. We're thinking of at least 10 reasons why Japan cannot improve its defenses. That's changed enough in recent years. But you see how many decades we've lost. 00:08:51 JACK GAINES Right. I can see part of what the State Department is saying in that a lot of those countries along the Asian coast were under Japanese rule during World War II. They're concerned that by showing favor and coordinating with them in defense might offend places like the Philippines or Korea. It is a concern to be weighed, but I don't know how much weight you would put to it. 00:09:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I wouldn't give it hardly any. With the Japanese, when you actually think about it, I would say within... 30 years of the end of the war, but certainly today, and for the last at least 20 years ago. The new century. Even before that. The Japanese and World War II is not really an issue in almost all of Asia. The Chinese, of course... Play it up. That's a good way to put it. Of course, they do remember what the Japanese did, and it was barbaric. Although the Chinese Communist Party afterwards killed 50 million Chinese in peacetime and good weather, which the Imperial Japanese Army couldn't have dreamed of doing. But World War II is an issue in China. Korea as well, the relationship is dicey. Up to a point. I mean, little old ladies go and sit in front of the embassy still. 00:10:05 JACK GAINES the embassy still. 00:10:06 GRANT NEWSHAM There are, and then you just had a South Korean amphibious ship come to Yokosuka in Tokyo on a visit. In Korea, there's a fundamental sort of suspicion of the Japanese. Sometimes it is a real dislike. But most people, it's not a big issue. But except for those two countries, you go down the list in Asia, and there is no after effect of World War II. I find the Filipinos get along very well with the Japanese. The Indonesians do. They, in fact, see the Japanese as being the people who freed them from the colonial yoke. Okay. The Malays, they actually didn't have that bad a time during the occupation. The Chinese in Malaysia did. So the Malaysians don't have any really hard feelings against the Japanese. Taiwan, same thing. They've got a very good relationship. And then there's one plus billion Indians who actually have an excellent relationship with Japan and see Japan as real friends and vice versa. So you're starting to get a good chunk of Asia, which, as you can see, actually sees Japan as a good country, useful economically. It's been very generous. And they like to see a Japanese military that's strong enough, allied with the United States, able to deal with China. 00:11:27 JACK GAINES Right. And why would we have such a different balance as we do with Germany and Europe? Because no one's questioning this in Holland or in France. That's just another country. They freely trade, they freely access each other. So maybe mindset just needs to shift to say the reform of Japan is just like Germany, and we need to start treating them and partner nations the same and start advocating for a joint staff. 00:11:52 GRANT NEWSHAM And you could do that in an afternoon, but the Japanese will not speak up for themselves. And an old New York Times reporter, Richard Halloran, I remember him telling me once that all the people he ever dealt with in the world... The Japanese were the worst at explaining themselves. And there's a reticence which slows them down. But also the Americans are afraid to tell them what we need. And that is a huge problem, because if we don't tell them, the Japanese are not blind readers, and they won't do what we think we'd like them to do, but we're afraid to ask. And in fact, one of the Japanese prime ministers in 1970, so 50 -some years ago, He gave some very good advice to the Americans, and it was at the time the Americans were trying to put an aircraft carrier into Yokosuka, the naval base near Tokyo. They wanted to assign it there permanently. And the U .S. side was thinking of excuses why it was too hard for the Japanese. They'll cause political difficulties. The Japanese have an election coming up. The timing just isn't right. And finally, the Japanese side sent a message to the Americans saying, tell us what you need. And don't back down. And they said it out of exasperation, really. And it was the best advice the Americans have ever been given. And we've refused to follow it ever since then. And really, it's almost a cultural trait, sort of a Confucian system. They actually are happy to have experts tell them what they ought to do. Sure. Whereas we are more of the Socratic method. And it doesn't, it just doesn't work. That's why after all these years, the Americans and the Japanese forces, except for the navies, And except for missile defense, we really don't operate together anywhere near where we need to be. We're not even close. And another very interesting fact a lot of people don't know is the Japanese military missed its recruitment targets by about 50 % last year. 5 -0? 00:13:50 JACK GAINES -0? 00:13:50 GRANT NEWSHAM 5 -0. And it routinely misses them by 20 -25%. So this, you can see, is a problem. It's now an older force, doesn't have enough people. In order to fulfill its missions, it would probably have to be twice as big, both personnel -wise and in terms of ships and hardware. Its war stocks are basically non -existent, doesn't know anything really about casualty care, combat casualty replacements, logistics. 00:14:20 JACK GAINES Well, if the media looks down on it and the political class looks down on it, it's not going to get a lot of positivity in the public mindset. So that's got to be part of it. It's not a vote -getter to push for a strong defense. 00:14:31 GRANT NEWSHAM vote -getter to push for a strong defense. I mean, if you're a politician, no one's going to say, he's the defense guy, let's give him our vote. But people vote for other reasons. But you do get used to, after that horrific experience in World War II, that for decades people didn't want to really think about defense, and they were glad to have the Americans around to handle it, and particularly when it seemed like there wasn't any real threat anywhere. People were happy with that, and even the U .S. side. didn't mind it as well. But I'd say it should have started to change at least 20 years ago. And it didn't until maybe four or five years ago. Well, 00:15:10 JACK GAINES when did the risk indicators really start popping up with China? 00:15:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I think by... It can't be back when Nixon went. 00:15:15 JACK GAINES It can't be back when Nixon went. Well, it should have, 00:15:16 GRANT NEWSHAM it should have, you know, I think. But about 2005 is when it was obvious what was coming. 00:15:19 JACK GAINES But about 00:15:21 GRANT NEWSHAM when it was obvious what was coming. And even before that, if you knew what to look for. But as I said, some of us... We knew what needed done and what the problems were. And there were Japanese who did too. And that's why when we put together their amphibious force, it was sort of an effort to address the shortcomings in Japan's self -defense force. Also to improve the overall U .S.-Japan relationship because it was so imbalanced. Right. Where the Japanese weren't doing anything near enough to defend themselves. And that over time creates a lot of friction in a relationship. So we were trying to address that with the amphibious force, and that was 2011, which we were pretty successful at that because we didn't ask permission from anybody. I was going to say, if you were successful, 00:16:10 JACK GAINES did you get fired? 00:16:11 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, it's not that people didn't try. 00:16:11 JACK GAINES Well, it's not that people didn't try. Sorry, that was sarcastic. But I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. 00:16:15 GRANT NEWSHAM I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. Yeah. And didn't quite know what we were doing. And also you had people like General Gregson, who was then at... Department of Defense, who had been in Japan many years, and he knew the importance of it all. So he would provide some cover. But the real success there was because the Japanese side took the ideas and ran with it. And the Americans provided some cover and some know -how and some advice. But it was the Japanese who did that. Once the Japanese took on the mission, well, what are the Americans going to say? But I was even told that at Indo -PACOM, that there were people who gotten wind of this and were very much opposed because the idea that Japanese having an amphibious force was provocative. Not just provocative, but it was going to cause the Japanese to go on the rampage again, like in 1941. I'm not making this up. 00:17:11 JACK GAINES So when Germany starts building the Leopard 2, were they expected to go on a rampage too? 00:17:17 GRANT NEWSHAM No, those are Europeans. Oh, okay. You know how the Europeans are okay. 00:17:19 JACK GAINES okay. You know 00:17:21 GRANT NEWSHAM But the fact that Germans have been allowed back into polite society. tells you something, and the Japanese are just as deserving of it as well. 00:17:30 JACK GAINES Did you see the movie Godzilla Minus One? No. It's an interesting portrayal of post -World War II Japan. And Godzilla, which is this giant monster, comes out of the sea, tears up Japan, and has an atomic breath that shoots off nuclear explosions, which sounds a lot like the United States in a mythological way. One thing that... the show did that was interesting is it kind of engaged post -military era and had talked about it. And it seemed like it was trying to reconcile the past with now and build out a notion that the military is okay, that after the war, there were good things that happened and that we should embrace a military in the future. So there might be some societal impulses out there that are promoting and supporting a more built -up military in Japan. 00:18:24 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, you're actually right. The public at large has always been pretty supportive of the military. For example, when they have open base days, when they put on so -called firepower demonstrations, which is like an exercise you can watch where they shoot off stuff, that they're always oversubscribed. And people just pour into these things because they're interested. And the central government, or say the ruling class, are the ones who are gun -shy or... I'm really hesitant, but the public at large, you know, when you ask them, you know, should Japan have a normal military? The replies to that are like 85%. Well, yes, of course. And I think they would be horrified if they knew the actual state of the Japanese military. I mentioned this to a Japanese politician last year, and he was horrified at the idea. And the public as well would have a similar reaction. Regular Japanese people say they have a pretty good understanding of what Japan needs to do to defend itself and of the importance of having a national defense, but the government doesn't explain it very well. When they do, the reaction, there's a Japanese expression, it's called like, it's atarimae. And it means like, well, yeah. It's like, duh. 00:19:42 JACK GAINES Abnautually. And that's what it means. 00:19:42 GRANT NEWSHAM And that's what it means. Should Japan have a good defense? Atarimae. And yeah, what's the question here? But if you ask that question in the political world, then you'll get all sorts of emming and hawing. They wanted nothing of that. By the late 70s, certainly by the 90s, that they sort of outlived that. But it was comfortable to continue with it, particularly if you're the government, because you don't have to spend money on defense. And the Americans are covering that. So it was as if the Americans were giving. I'd say at least $50 billion a year in free defense coverage, at least, probably more. And, you know, if you're a government, you think, well, why should we do anything different? And so they got used to that. We got used to it. And then at some point, the friction builds up where you just can't do that. And the Japanese themselves start to be resentful. 00:20:37 JACK GAINES Right. Keeping them handicapped, probably. 00:20:40 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. You know, they're not letting us be self -fulfilled. I think that's sort of the marriage counselor's analysis. And so that imbalance was such that it was creating huge problems in the relationship. But the defense relationship, you know, pointing out, well, you know, you guys really aren't very good, except for the Navy. You know, and we can't work with you very well, except for the Navies. And as a result, that's why we are where we are today. By now, if we had a more sort of capable U .S.-Japan defense relationship, where the two services could... operate together, and we're conducting a joint defense of Japan and the surrounding areas, which includes, say, to Taiwan even, that that would have, I think, deterred a lot of the problems that we're having. But by pretending everything was okay, we've gotten ourselves in a position where we now face a real threat out there. And we're trying to make up for lost time. And I don't know. And I don't know which side I would bet on. I'd bet on ours because I'm an American. But that's how out of whack it has gotten. It used to be maybe till 20 years ago, we were in pretty good shape. But you can see that advantage eroding. And nowadays, depending on how a fight were to take place, if it does take place, it would be less of a sure thing than it once was. And that's, I think, putting it very nicely. 00:22:04 JACK GAINES Well, tell me about the threat. 00:22:05 GRANT NEWSHAM What are you seeing? It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. (Part II) 00:00:02 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired Marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japanese defense forces and the PRC threat. This is the second in a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 SPEAKER_02 It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. They built up a military which is just gradually but steadily expanding its reach and its coverage. And it is compared to, say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 290. 00:00:58 JACK GAINES the Chinese Communist Party. 00:01:06 JACK GAINES its reach 00:01:11 JACK GAINES say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit 00:01:15 GRANT NEWSHAM off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just 00:01:25 JACK GAINES like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 00:01:37 SPEAKER_02 Well, fortunately, in terms of quality, they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. Whenever U .S. ships go in there, and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. So if the Chinese pick their spot, 00:01:39 JACK GAINES they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. 00:02:00 JACK GAINES and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. 00:02:16 SPEAKER_02 if the Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. And he's got eight seconds to figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. And yes, we can go in there. But once we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's harder for them, but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are building a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, they are our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't be defeated. An adversary that could give us a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended until about 2017 that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for their... 00:02:16 JACK GAINES if the 00:02:17 SPEAKER_03 Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 00:02:28 JACK GAINES figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. 00:02:39 JACK GAINES we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's 00:02:45 SPEAKER_03 but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are 00:02:55 JACK GAINES a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, 00:03:03 JACK GAINES our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't 00:03:22 JACK GAINES a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended 00:03:50 SPEAKER_03 until about 2017 00:03:51 GRANT NEWSHAM that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, 00:04:01 JACK GAINES who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for 00:04:30 SPEAKER_02 The idea is if you have a powerful military, well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when you can intimidate people. You can dominate them. And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. So they reverse engineer. 00:04:32 SPEAKER_03 well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when 00:04:39 JACK GAINES And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. 00:05:09 SPEAKER_02 Well, it... You know, it's kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact they may not be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing ovations last November in San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which point the Japanese Navy would be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused to. We refused to. 00:05:11 GRANT NEWSHAM kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact 00:05:20 SPEAKER_03 be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just 00:05:23 JACK GAINES has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing 00:05:45 JACK GAINES San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You 00:05:53 SPEAKER_03 would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which 00:06:03 JACK GAINES point the 00:06:06 JACK GAINES be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused 00:07:18 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, as he described it well. Ultimately, the military part of the fight is extremely important. But it's almost a sideshow. But it's almost a sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. And this was done intentionally. In large part, Chinese economic warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at the Americans. Because it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. I don't know. 00:07:20 SPEAKER_03 Ultimately, the military part of the 00:07:26 SPEAKER_03 it's almost a sideshow. 00:07:29 JACK GAINES sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. 00:08:26 JACK GAINES warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. 00:08:34 SPEAKER_03 Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at 00:08:47 GRANT NEWSHAM it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. 00:08:55 GRANT NEWSHAM know. It's been a while. I don't know. It's been a while. 00:09:02 SPEAKER_02 Unfortunately, Copperfish is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them a little longer, but they will popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to convince ourselves that we've been able to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. And as a result, 00:09:03 GRANT NEWSHAM is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them 00:09:07 SPEAKER_03 but they will 00:09:09 GRANT NEWSHAM popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, 00:09:16 JACK GAINES their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? 00:09:49 SPEAKER_03 America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to 00:10:00 JACK GAINES that we've been able 00:10:00 SPEAKER_03 to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. 00:10:10 JACK GAINES Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. 00:10:27 SPEAKER_03 Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. 00:10:34 SPEAKER_02 as a result, they have been able to improve their position politically, psychologically, economically, and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:36 SPEAKER_03 their position 00:10:40 GRANT NEWSHAM and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:51 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, that's the idea. Is you don't want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. Yes, it's not showing up off of San Diego just yet. But places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more of a Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have done this other sort of warfare. 00:10:53 JACK GAINES want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that 00:11:19 SPEAKER_03 sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. 00:11:28 JACK GAINES Yes, it's not showing 00:11:33 JACK GAINES places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more 00:11:46 JACK GAINES Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have 00:11:52 SPEAKER_03 this other 00:12:31 SPEAKER_02 That's exactly what it is. It's mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the word cognitive warfare. You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:33 JACK GAINES mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the 00:12:42 JACK GAINES You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than 00:12:50 GRANT NEWSHAM the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:59 SPEAKER_02 We can't even get that done. 00:13:03 SPEAKER_02 Look, 72 hours, if that for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which is using our own legal system. And the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have been just with that. 00:13:04 JACK GAINES for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which 00:13:13 JACK GAINES the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have 00:13:41 SPEAKER_02 Uh -huh. Uh -huh. 00:13:46 SPEAKER_02 Well, you're right about the Russians, but the Chinese understand that the term gray zone paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working something out. 00:13:51 GRANT NEWSHAM paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working 00:14:03 SPEAKER_03 something out. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_02 That has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that we have to have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons proliferation, climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into China's behavior, its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and go on the rides. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_03 has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that 00:14:14 JACK GAINES have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons 00:14:22 JACK GAINES climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into 00:14:42 JACK GAINES its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and 00:15:06 SPEAKER_02 That's it. Nobody wants it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most of them have wealth overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this is illegal. And this is illegal. 00:15:08 JACK GAINES it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most 00:15:19 GRANT NEWSHAM overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this 00:15:31 SPEAKER_02 And this is where that really scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. This bothered them. 00:15:33 JACK GAINES scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New 00:15:37 SPEAKER_03 York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. 00:15:46 GRANT NEWSHAM I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. 00:15:53 SPEAKER_02 More than anything else we've ever done. That's... 00:15:53 GRANT NEWSHAM than anything 00:16:14 SPEAKER_02 One way to do it. Another way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:16 JACK GAINES way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to 00:16:19 SPEAKER_03 release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:25 SPEAKER_02 Which of the top 50 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. And that is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen absorb any amount of punishment. And they even talk about it. 00:16:27 SPEAKER_03 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it 00:16:29 GRANT NEWSHAM reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. 00:16:38 JACK GAINES is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen 00:16:49 JACK GAINES they even talk about it. 00:16:51 SPEAKER_02 But when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:16:51 JACK GAINES when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:17:14 SPEAKER_02 But expose that. They can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think 00:17:15 JACK GAINES can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists 00:17:44 SPEAKER_03 get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which 00:17:52 SPEAKER_02 is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It gives them something to work with. It gives them something to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, administrations. And get rid of them and replace them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where people like to be cheaters. Where people like to be cheaters. Where they like their leaders to be corrupt. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you get local reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some problems. But they have played their hand very well today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it gets. 00:17:52 SPEAKER_03 is the thing that makes it 00:17:54 JACK GAINES corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It 00:18:16 JACK GAINES to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, 00:18:23 JACK GAINES them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where 00:18:32 JACK GAINES I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you 00:18:46 GRANT NEWSHAM reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. 00:18:56 JACK GAINES Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some 00:19:12 JACK GAINES today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it 00:19:28 SPEAKER_02 In regards to U .S. policy, in policy, there really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to effectively safeguard what you call freedom consensual government. Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't fight on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not more, than the military. 00:19:30 SPEAKER_03 in policy, there 00:19:31 JACK GAINES really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to 00:19:45 JACK GAINES Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic 00:20:09 GRANT NEWSHAM one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't 00:20:19 JACK GAINES on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, 00:20:30 GRANT NEWSHAM we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not 00:20:40 JACK GAINES more, than the 00:20:45 SPEAKER_02 They have a role to play if they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure out the motivations for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? And this is where you can really make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:20:47 JACK GAINES they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not 00:20:59 SPEAKER_03 so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's 00:21:10 GRANT NEWSHAM make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it 00:21:20 JACK GAINES is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. 00:21:50 SPEAKER_03 Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure 00:22:00 JACK GAINES for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? 00:22:10 JACK GAINES make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, 00:22:32 GRANT NEWSHAM that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:22:39 SPEAKER_02 Asia would turn red overnight, as every country tried to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, 00:22:39 GRANT NEWSHAM would turn red overnight, as every country tried 00:22:42 SPEAKER_03 to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere 00:22:46 JACK GAINES on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend 00:22:51 GRANT NEWSHAM Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, even? Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. 00:23:02 SPEAKER_02 Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? build up the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some effort. 00:23:11 JACK GAINES give them a free trade agreement to 00:23:16 JACK GAINES point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? 00:23:35 JACK GAINES the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some 00:24:25 SPEAKER_02 I think you're right. And it's essential that we start to understand. You look at much of the debate about us in China. What happens when the two forces go at each other? And that's almost like... Going up behind the Waffle House. Going up behind the Waffle House. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. Out back. But think of all the things that go into whether or not the two hoodlums. There's all sorts of reasons why. No, the

Perils to the Deep Sea From Bottom Trawling, Climate Change and Mining and the Need to Protect Its Stunning BiodiversityDiscussion with Matt Gianni from the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition on the critical importance of the deep sea to our air, climate, the marine food web, our food security and health. We discuss the biodiversity of the deep sea and our continual discovery of new extremophiles. We discuss the threat of bottom trawling, which indiscriminately catches a multitude of bycatch and disrupts nutrient flow. We discuss the looming threat of deep sea mining for critical minerals for the energy transition and the International Seabed Authority's conflicting mandate to establish the industry while protecting the deep sea. We also discuss how mining companies are exploiting Pacific Island nations, which are the most vulnerable to climate change. Additionally, we discuss the growing schism between climate mitigation and biodiversity protection and the need to view these as one problem that demands an integrated, holistic solution.For More Info: http://thegravity.fm/#/episode/63

Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat.  This is a two-part episode. Grant's biography: https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/author/grant-newsham/ Book link: https://www.regnery.com/9781684513659/when-china-attacks/ A recent article: https://andmagazine.substack.com/p/the-us-in-the-pacific-getting-the?utm_source=substack&publication_id=746580&post_id=151553726&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=ercjf&triedRedirect=true --- One CA is a product of the civil affairs association  and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on the ground with a partner nation's people and leadership. We aim to inspire anyone interested in working in the "last three feet" of U.S. foreign relations.  To contact the show, email us at CApodcasting@gmail.com  or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www civilaffairsassoc.org --- Special thanks to the site Cool Jazz Hot Bossa for the sample of Cool Jazz Hot Bossa. (59:00). Retrieved from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdWUj2NYDYQ --- Transcript: (Part I) 00:00:05 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. Or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome Grant Newsham, retired Marine Colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japan Defense Forces and the PRC threat. This is the first of a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 GRANT NEWSHAM I was effectively MarforPak's guy in Asia for a number of years. which worked well in both directions. So I was obviously in Japan, but also did a lot of work for them throughout the region, Southeast Asia as well, Taiwan even, which was a lot of fun. 00:01:13 JACK GAINES Yeah. And you've become a foreign policy advocate in the area. 00:01:16 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. At some point, maybe seven or eight years ago, figured I'd actually done enough stuff to maybe have a few ideas. So I started writing and speak a lot as well. So I guess I'm part of the commentariat. But I seem to write about once a week some topic related to often Asian defense, but sometimes economics, politics, sometimes organized crime. And I do get invited to speak here and there and seem to get a number of television or radio interviews as well. That's really cool. I didn't say I get invited to good things, but I do get the occasional invitation. I used to think it was because I had such insight. Someone told me not all that long ago that actually, if you'll say yes to an interview, you're likely to get more of them. Because the people who book them, they just want to get somebody on. And I thought it was because of my particular wisdom. 00:02:07 JACK GAINES of my particular wisdom. 00:02:09 GRANT NEWSHAM I'm joking a little bit. But obviously, you must have something useful to say. But it is funny. There's one place in Singapore that calls me a lot. It's like their CNN. And they've been calling me. Probably eight years at least, or almost every time, I'll tell the presenters that basically they don't know what they're talking about. And I always think, well, this is the last one, but they keep calling me up. They mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:34 JACK GAINES mislike you because you're the contrarian. 00:02:36 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, I can blame things in a way that sort of suits broadcast and that sort of regular people can understand, you know, 00:02:42 GRANT NEWSHAM that sort of regular people can understand, you know, being a regular person myself. 00:02:47 JACK GAINES Yeah, you learn to disagree without offending. 00:02:49 GRANT NEWSHAM Usually. And it's always sort of a relief, actually, when you can have a different look at things. 00:02:56 JACK GAINES That's good. I always thought you were going to say it is a relief sometimes when you just peel the coat off and then yell at them. 00:03:02 GRANT NEWSHAM The facts speak for themselves. Right. And if it's a presenter, their role is different, and they will generally not have the substantive knowledge that most of the people on the show will have. Right. And so much of what I have to say is often not... in line with accepted wisdom, particularly when it comes to Japan. Sure. So it's often that I'll have to present a different take on things, but they don't seem to be offended. 00:03:27 JACK GAINES Right. You mostly talk about Japan in its current defense fashion or in its foreign policy actions. 00:03:33 GRANT NEWSHAM A lot of that because people have a perception of Japan, for example, as a pacifist country. It cannot fight. It's peace loving. Right. etc. They have a nuclear allergy. You know, just the idea of nuclear weapons in Japan is out of the question. You often hear, well, their constitution won't let them fight. And none of those things are actually true. But it's the received wisdom. It's what people think. And when you simply point out the realities of Japan, that ultimately, at the end of the day, it's a country just like every other. And that the stereotypes about it really aren't correct when it comes to defense security. In fact, they use that the Constitution won't let them have a military. You probably heard it. Yeah. That's the idea. And they don't even call it a military. But the fact is they've got a military, which, according to some ratings, is the fifth most powerful in the world. It depends on how you calculate it, of course. But they call it something else. And what is the actual distinction between offensive and defensive weapons? 00:04:35 JACK GAINES It's usually the strike space. If it's inside your own country defending, then it's a defense space. Once you go out and start taking out other people's cities and moving forces in. 00:04:44 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, for example, they don't have much what you call power projection capability very far off their borders. But they do have a submarine fleet, say over 20 submarines. There's no reason you couldn't send them to the coast of China and start sinking ships. 00:04:59 JACK GAINES True. 00:05:00 GRANT NEWSHAM They've got F -16s. You can put long -range missiles on them and you can fly out of ways and cause people a lot of trouble. But their military really, I would say, is not so good at offense. It's not so good at defense either. And that's something that comes as a surprise to a lot of people. 00:05:15 JACK GAINES Well, do they exercise defense and offense? 00:05:18 GRANT NEWSHAM Oh, they have exercises, training, and they put on a pretty good show, particularly when they have visitors come. But they really, until very recently, and even now, they can't do joint operations, which means the air, sea, and ground forces. can't operate together. In fact, they don't even have a radio with which they can communicate easily. They have to jury -rig some relations, these connections. And that's something most people don't understand, because you look at it on paper. Japan has 250 ,000 people in its military, and it's got ships, aircraft, all of it modern and good stuff. 150 ,000 people in its ground self -defense force, their army. But it's not even the sum of its whole. If you imagine each of your limbs, your arms and your legs, each doing whatever it wants without the coordinating function provided by a brain. 00:06:10 JACK GAINES Sounds like me dancing. 00:06:12 GRANT NEWSHAM It would be, yeah. I think that I can picture that, whereas I'm more of an Arthur Murray kind of guy. But it's like that. And nobody can believe that because they think, well, this is the Japanese. It's this advanced modern country, big military, the rich country. And I mean, they can't even do these simple things. Right. The short answer is no, except in some limited circumstances. After 60 years of the U .S.-Japan defense relationship, 80 years after World War II, they still cannot do some of the basic things that a military needs to do, or do them very well, put it that way. But they do train, they exercise, the personnel quality is excellent. You know, we tend to say, well, we've got Japan as our ally, Japan has a military. But the reality is that the U .S. and Japanese forces cannot work very well together. There's one exception, and that's the two navies. The U .S. Navy and the Japanese Navy, called the Maritime Self -Defense Force, they actually do work well. And they show what's doable. 00:07:15 JACK GAINES They probably do dynamic exercises as well as structured ones, so they have to change, have to practice new orders and maneuvers. 00:07:22 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, the nature of naval operations is you can go out... into the sea, and you have more freedom to actually do stuff. But part of it actually was when Admiral Arleigh Burke, who was later chief of naval operations for many years, he was in charge in Japan. He basically laid down the ground rules, which was that the American Navy was going to treat the Japanese like friends, like allies. And that set the tone for everything. So they had a more relationship of equals, people who wanted to operate together. And that is why they have a good relationship today. in my opinion. So as a result, after all these decades, the two militaries are not really very good at operating together. There's no joint headquarters. There never has been in Japan. At best, they've operated in isolation. Do they recognize they don't have a joint access? Oh, they know. The Japanese military knows this. And US Indo -PACOM has not pushed the issue. And then you had... The State Department side, on the civilian side, people saying, well, if we ask the Japanese to get better at defense matters, well, they'll get angry. And if they do, then the Chinese will be mad. So you have the U .S. on the U .S. side. We're thinking of at least 10 reasons why Japan cannot improve its defenses. That's changed enough in recent years. But you see how many decades we've lost. 00:08:51 JACK GAINES Right. I can see part of what the State Department is saying in that a lot of those countries along the Asian coast were under Japanese rule during World War II. They're concerned that by showing favor and coordinating with them in defense might offend places like the Philippines or Korea. It is a concern to be weighed, but I don't know how much weight you would put to it. 00:09:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I wouldn't give it hardly any. With the Japanese, when you actually think about it, I would say within... 30 years of the end of the war, but certainly today, and for the last at least 20 years ago. The new century. Even before that. The Japanese and World War II is not really an issue in almost all of Asia. The Chinese, of course... Play it up. That's a good way to put it. Of course, they do remember what the Japanese did, and it was barbaric. Although the Chinese Communist Party afterwards killed 50 million Chinese in peacetime and good weather, which the Imperial Japanese Army couldn't have dreamed of doing. But World War II is an issue in China. Korea as well, the relationship is dicey. Up to a point. I mean, little old ladies go and sit in front of the embassy still. 00:10:05 JACK GAINES the embassy still. 00:10:06 GRANT NEWSHAM There are, and then you just had a South Korean amphibious ship come to Yokosuka in Tokyo on a visit. In Korea, there's a fundamental sort of suspicion of the Japanese. Sometimes it is a real dislike. But most people, it's not a big issue. But except for those two countries, you go down the list in Asia, and there is no after effect of World War II. I find the Filipinos get along very well with the Japanese. The Indonesians do. They, in fact, see the Japanese as being the people who freed them from the colonial yoke. Okay. The Malays, they actually didn't have that bad a time during the occupation. The Chinese in Malaysia did. So the Malaysians don't have any really hard feelings against the Japanese. Taiwan, same thing. They've got a very good relationship. And then there's one plus billion Indians who actually have an excellent relationship with Japan and see Japan as real friends and vice versa. So you're starting to get a good chunk of Asia, which, as you can see, actually sees Japan as a good country, useful economically. It's been very generous. And they like to see a Japanese military that's strong enough, allied with the United States, able to deal with China. 00:11:27 JACK GAINES Right. And why would we have such a different balance as we do with Germany and Europe? Because no one's questioning this in Holland or in France. That's just another country. They freely trade, they freely access each other. So maybe mindset just needs to shift to say the reform of Japan is just like Germany, and we need to start treating them and partner nations the same and start advocating for a joint staff. 00:11:52 GRANT NEWSHAM And you could do that in an afternoon, but the Japanese will not speak up for themselves. And an old New York Times reporter, Richard Halloran, I remember him telling me once that all the people he ever dealt with in the world... The Japanese were the worst at explaining themselves. And there's a reticence which slows them down. But also the Americans are afraid to tell them what we need. And that is a huge problem, because if we don't tell them, the Japanese are not blind readers, and they won't do what we think we'd like them to do, but we're afraid to ask. And in fact, one of the Japanese prime ministers in 1970, so 50 -some years ago, He gave some very good advice to the Americans, and it was at the time the Americans were trying to put an aircraft carrier into Yokosuka, the naval base near Tokyo. They wanted to assign it there permanently. And the U .S. side was thinking of excuses why it was too hard for the Japanese. They'll cause political difficulties. The Japanese have an election coming up. The timing just isn't right. And finally, the Japanese side sent a message to the Americans saying, tell us what you need. And don't back down. And they said it out of exasperation, really. And it was the best advice the Americans have ever been given. And we've refused to follow it ever since then. And really, it's almost a cultural trait, sort of a Confucian system. They actually are happy to have experts tell them what they ought to do. Sure. Whereas we are more of the Socratic method. And it doesn't, it just doesn't work. That's why after all these years, the Americans and the Japanese forces, except for the navies, And except for missile defense, we really don't operate together anywhere near where we need to be. We're not even close. And another very interesting fact a lot of people don't know is the Japanese military missed its recruitment targets by about 50 % last year. 5 -0? 00:13:50 JACK GAINES -0? 00:13:50 GRANT NEWSHAM 5 -0. And it routinely misses them by 20 -25%. So this, you can see, is a problem. It's now an older force, doesn't have enough people. In order to fulfill its missions, it would probably have to be twice as big, both personnel -wise and in terms of ships and hardware. Its war stocks are basically non -existent, doesn't know anything really about casualty care, combat casualty replacements, logistics. 00:14:20 JACK GAINES Well, if the media looks down on it and the political class looks down on it, it's not going to get a lot of positivity in the public mindset. So that's got to be part of it. It's not a vote -getter to push for a strong defense. 00:14:31 GRANT NEWSHAM vote -getter to push for a strong defense. I mean, if you're a politician, no one's going to say, he's the defense guy, let's give him our vote. But people vote for other reasons. But you do get used to, after that horrific experience in World War II, that for decades people didn't want to really think about defense, and they were glad to have the Americans around to handle it, and particularly when it seemed like there wasn't any real threat anywhere. People were happy with that, and even the U .S. side. didn't mind it as well. But I'd say it should have started to change at least 20 years ago. And it didn't until maybe four or five years ago. Well, 00:15:10 JACK GAINES when did the risk indicators really start popping up with China? 00:15:14 GRANT NEWSHAM I think by... It can't be back when Nixon went. 00:15:15 JACK GAINES It can't be back when Nixon went. Well, it should have, 00:15:16 GRANT NEWSHAM it should have, you know, I think. But about 2005 is when it was obvious what was coming. 00:15:19 JACK GAINES But about 00:15:21 GRANT NEWSHAM when it was obvious what was coming. And even before that, if you knew what to look for. But as I said, some of us... We knew what needed done and what the problems were. And there were Japanese who did too. And that's why when we put together their amphibious force, it was sort of an effort to address the shortcomings in Japan's self -defense force. Also to improve the overall U .S.-Japan relationship because it was so imbalanced. Right. Where the Japanese weren't doing anything near enough to defend themselves. And that over time creates a lot of friction in a relationship. So we were trying to address that with the amphibious force, and that was 2011, which we were pretty successful at that because we didn't ask permission from anybody. I was going to say, if you were successful, 00:16:10 JACK GAINES did you get fired? 00:16:11 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, it's not that people didn't try. 00:16:11 JACK GAINES Well, it's not that people didn't try. Sorry, that was sarcastic. But I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. 00:16:15 GRANT NEWSHAM I was a reservist, so they couldn't quite get a bead on me. Yeah. And didn't quite know what we were doing. And also you had people like General Gregson, who was then at... Department of Defense, who had been in Japan many years, and he knew the importance of it all. So he would provide some cover. But the real success there was because the Japanese side took the ideas and ran with it. And the Americans provided some cover and some know -how and some advice. But it was the Japanese who did that. Once the Japanese took on the mission, well, what are the Americans going to say? But I was even told that at Indo -PACOM, that there were people who gotten wind of this and were very much opposed because the idea that Japanese having an amphibious force was provocative. Not just provocative, but it was going to cause the Japanese to go on the rampage again, like in 1941. I'm not making this up. 00:17:11 JACK GAINES So when Germany starts building the Leopard 2, were they expected to go on a rampage too? 00:17:17 GRANT NEWSHAM No, those are Europeans. Oh, okay. You know how the Europeans are okay. 00:17:19 JACK GAINES okay. You know 00:17:21 GRANT NEWSHAM But the fact that Germans have been allowed back into polite society. tells you something, and the Japanese are just as deserving of it as well. 00:17:30 JACK GAINES Did you see the movie Godzilla Minus One? No. It's an interesting portrayal of post -World War II Japan. And Godzilla, which is this giant monster, comes out of the sea, tears up Japan, and has an atomic breath that shoots off nuclear explosions, which sounds a lot like the United States in a mythological way. One thing that... the show did that was interesting is it kind of engaged post -military era and had talked about it. And it seemed like it was trying to reconcile the past with now and build out a notion that the military is okay, that after the war, there were good things that happened and that we should embrace a military in the future. So there might be some societal impulses out there that are promoting and supporting a more built -up military in Japan. 00:18:24 GRANT NEWSHAM Well, you're actually right. The public at large has always been pretty supportive of the military. For example, when they have open base days, when they put on so -called firepower demonstrations, which is like an exercise you can watch where they shoot off stuff, that they're always oversubscribed. And people just pour into these things because they're interested. And the central government, or say the ruling class, are the ones who are gun -shy or... I'm really hesitant, but the public at large, you know, when you ask them, you know, should Japan have a normal military? The replies to that are like 85%. Well, yes, of course. And I think they would be horrified if they knew the actual state of the Japanese military. I mentioned this to a Japanese politician last year, and he was horrified at the idea. And the public as well would have a similar reaction. Regular Japanese people say they have a pretty good understanding of what Japan needs to do to defend itself and of the importance of having a national defense, but the government doesn't explain it very well. When they do, the reaction, there's a Japanese expression, it's called like, it's atarimae. And it means like, well, yeah. It's like, duh. 00:19:42 JACK GAINES Abnautually. And that's what it means. 00:19:42 GRANT NEWSHAM And that's what it means. Should Japan have a good defense? Atarimae. And yeah, what's the question here? But if you ask that question in the political world, then you'll get all sorts of emming and hawing. They wanted nothing of that. By the late 70s, certainly by the 90s, that they sort of outlived that. But it was comfortable to continue with it, particularly if you're the government, because you don't have to spend money on defense. And the Americans are covering that. So it was as if the Americans were giving. I'd say at least $50 billion a year in free defense coverage, at least, probably more. And, you know, if you're a government, you think, well, why should we do anything different? And so they got used to that. We got used to it. And then at some point, the friction builds up where you just can't do that. And the Japanese themselves start to be resentful. 00:20:37 JACK GAINES Right. Keeping them handicapped, probably. 00:20:40 GRANT NEWSHAM Yeah. You know, they're not letting us be self -fulfilled. I think that's sort of the marriage counselor's analysis. And so that imbalance was such that it was creating huge problems in the relationship. But the defense relationship, you know, pointing out, well, you know, you guys really aren't very good, except for the Navy. You know, and we can't work with you very well, except for the Navies. And as a result, that's why we are where we are today. By now, if we had a more sort of capable U .S.-Japan defense relationship, where the two services could... operate together, and we're conducting a joint defense of Japan and the surrounding areas, which includes, say, to Taiwan even, that that would have, I think, deterred a lot of the problems that we're having. But by pretending everything was okay, we've gotten ourselves in a position where we now face a real threat out there. And we're trying to make up for lost time. And I don't know. And I don't know which side I would bet on. I'd bet on ours because I'm an American. But that's how out of whack it has gotten. It used to be maybe till 20 years ago, we were in pretty good shape. But you can see that advantage eroding. And nowadays, depending on how a fight were to take place, if it does take place, it would be less of a sure thing than it once was. And that's, I think, putting it very nicely. 00:22:04 JACK GAINES Well, tell me about the threat. 00:22:05 GRANT NEWSHAM What are you seeing? It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. (Part II) 00:00:02 JACK GAINES Welcome to the 1CA Podcast. This is your host, Jack Gaines. 1CA is a product of the Civil Affairs Association and brings in people who are current or former military, diplomats, development officers, and field agents to discuss their experiences on ground with the partner nation's people and leadership. Our goal is to inspire anyone interested in working the last three feet of foreign relations. To contact the show, email us at capodcasting@gmail.com. or look us up on the Civil Affairs Association website at www.civilaffairsassoc.org. I'll have those in the show notes. Please welcome back Grant Newsham, retired Marine colonel and author of When China Attacks, A Warning to America. Grant came on the show to discuss the state of the Japanese defense forces and the PRC threat. This is the second in a two-part episode, so let's get started. 00:00:56 SPEAKER_02 It's China. led by the Chinese Communist Party. They built up a military which is just gradually but steadily expanding its reach and its coverage. And it is compared to, say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 290. 00:00:58 JACK GAINES the Chinese Communist Party. 00:01:06 JACK GAINES its reach 00:01:11 JACK GAINES say, 2020, now instead of just being able to operate a little bit 00:01:15 GRANT NEWSHAM off their coast, they can reach Guam, Hawaii, and onwards. The Chinese military doesn't tend to develop into a force able to operate worldwide just 00:01:25 JACK GAINES like the U .S. can. And their ship numbers. They've got more than we do. Something like 350 versus our 00:01:37 SPEAKER_02 Well, fortunately, in terms of quality, they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. Whenever U .S. ships go in there, and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. So if the Chinese pick their spot, 00:01:39 JACK GAINES they're pretty good. And they know what they need to do, and they're getting better. For some things like carrier operations, they're not at our level yet. But if you look at the speed at which they have developed, they're in pretty good shape. But let's just say the South China Sea, which is one and a half times the size of the Mediterranean. 00:02:00 JACK GAINES and we do publicize our transits and operations and exercises, for every ship we put in there, For every ship we put in, the Chinese can match it with at least 10. And that doesn't include ground -based and air -launched anti -ship missiles, for example. 00:02:16 SPEAKER_02 if the Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. And he's got eight seconds to figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. And yes, we can go in there. But once we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's harder for them, but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are building a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, they are our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't be defeated. An adversary that could give us a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended until about 2017 that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for their... 00:02:16 JACK GAINES if the 00:02:17 SPEAKER_03 Chinese pick their spot, pick their timing, I wouldn't want to be the destroyer skipper who's got 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 20 anti -ship missiles coming at him. 00:02:28 JACK GAINES figure out what to do. The point is they have had de facto control of the South China Sea since about seven, eight years ago. 00:02:39 JACK GAINES we're gone, the Chinese close back up and they've pretty much got it. Beyond that, it's 00:02:45 SPEAKER_03 but they're steadily expanding their capability to conduct operations. It's a military that has its problems, like every military, but they are trying to correct them. They are 00:02:55 JACK GAINES a military which they want to be able to defeat a country that has aircraft carriers, which is us. In many respects, 00:03:03 JACK GAINES our equals. Have you ever heard a Korean War veteran who said he wanted to fight the Chinese again? And these were Chinese. These was the Chinese of 1950s. It's a very different place today. And I'm not saying that they can't be defeated, but I'm not saying that they can't 00:03:22 JACK GAINES a lot of trouble. When their intentions are to first dominate regionally and locally, and then push that farther afield to all the Pacific and beyond. And they're setting up the infrastructure worldwide with ports and airfields to do that. They're investing in long -range transports, these naval replenishment ships that you need to be able to operate the way we do, and that's their mission. And we have pretended 00:03:50 SPEAKER_03 until about 2017 00:03:51 GRANT NEWSHAM that this wasn't the case. In fact, you couldn't even say China was an adversary. And guys who did, like Captain James Fennell, 00:04:01 JACK GAINES who was the head of intelligence at Pack Fleet. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. He was cashier. He was forced to retire. The then administration hated him and got rid of him. And that's how bad it was. And I saw this all firsthand. Experience some of it, not as bad as Captain Fennell did. So we've allowed them to build up into a military that we had better take very seriously. And the Chinese do see this as a tool for 00:04:30 SPEAKER_02 The idea is if you have a powerful military, well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when you can intimidate people. You can dominate them. And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. So they reverse engineer. 00:04:32 SPEAKER_03 well, that's when you can lean on people. That's when 00:04:39 JACK GAINES And they're happy with the psychological domination, political domination. It doesn't have to be occupying, but dominating. And they're in every field, from outer space, long -range missiles, undersea warfare, really putting a lot of effort into it. And there is a certain sort of ingenuity that goes into their operations. Well, they can't invent things. They don't develop things on their own. They just steal things. So they reverse engineer things. 00:05:09 SPEAKER_02 Well, it... You know, it's kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact they may not be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing ovations last November in San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which point the Japanese Navy would be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused to. We refused to. 00:05:11 GRANT NEWSHAM kind of true up to a point, but look at us. The Yankee ingenuity was taking stolen British technology and making it better. And so the fact 00:05:20 SPEAKER_03 be as innovative as us, well, sometimes it just 00:05:23 JACK GAINES has to be good enough. So they've got now a military to combine with this desire for political domination as well as considering their economic power as just as important as the military. And you see how successful that has been. When you have U .S. business leaders giving Xi Jinping two standing 00:05:45 JACK GAINES San Francisco, that tells you how successful they've been on the economic front. And the Japanese know they have a huge problem. You 00:05:53 SPEAKER_03 would often hear the Japanese military saying, one thing Taiwan's defense is Japan's defense. But I've even seen the calculations they did, like at which 00:06:03 JACK GAINES point the 00:06:06 JACK GAINES be outmatched by the Chinese Navy. And they had the date almost down to when it was. And our side, we were late recognizing this. We refused 00:07:18 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, as he described it well. Ultimately, the military part of the fight is extremely important. But it's almost a sideshow. But it's almost a sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. And this was done intentionally. In large part, Chinese economic warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at the Americans. Because it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. I don't know. 00:07:20 SPEAKER_03 Ultimately, the military part of the 00:07:26 SPEAKER_03 it's almost a sideshow. 00:07:29 JACK GAINES sideshow to the other activities, the other fight that China's been waging for the last 30, 40 years, almost ever since we opened up to them. And that has been generally referred to as political warfare, with components being economic warfare, financial warfare, drug warfare, which is the word the Chinese use. So all this fentanyl that's been pumped into America for the last decade that's killed up towards a million Americans, almost all of it comes from China. And they know exactly what they're doing. And so every year they're taking like the equivalent of two or three divisions off the battlefield. You've destroyed neighborhoods. You've destroyed successful economic warfare. Drive 30 miles up the road to Baltimore. Go to Sparrows, Baltimore. Where there used to be steel mills. And now you have Amazon fulfillment sectors at best. But you've seen just the gutting of American society, the so -called working class, the Rust Belt. And this was done intentionally. 00:08:26 JACK GAINES warfare directed at the United States. And then you have cyber warfare as well. You have cyber espionage. 00:08:34 SPEAKER_03 Well beyond what countries normally do. But they have used it very effectively. And the Chinese just... Recently put out their new fighter. That's called the J -35. That is a dig at 00:08:47 GRANT NEWSHAM it is based on stolen blueprints for the F -35. 00:08:55 GRANT NEWSHAM know. It's been a while. I don't know. It's been a while. 00:09:02 SPEAKER_02 Unfortunately, Copperfish is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them a little longer, but they will popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to convince ourselves that we've been able to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. And as a result, 00:09:03 GRANT NEWSHAM is leapfrogging over stages. Yes, it may take them 00:09:07 SPEAKER_03 but they will 00:09:09 GRANT NEWSHAM popscotch through it. And so... So I take it pretty seriously. Their Y -20, 00:09:16 JACK GAINES their long -range transport, is basically the C -17. And they've just been immensely successful at this sort of espionage. And at the same time, we've done nothing to push back on them. Then there's the propaganda angle of this, which really good old Jesuit meaning of the word just means to explain yourself or articulate your position. So people understand that they've been very successful in getting Americans to buy the Chinese line. China's rise is peaceful. China's rise is peaceful. China's never attacked anybody. China's never attacked anybody. It's not true. All great nations do this. So who are we to complain? 00:09:49 SPEAKER_03 America has its problems, too. America has its problems, too. Who are we to complain about the Chinese taking live organs out of Uyghurs and prisoners of conscience? And we've been able to 00:10:00 JACK GAINES that we've been able 00:10:00 SPEAKER_03 to convince ourselves that we've not only can we not do anything, we shouldn't do anything. This is changing. But you can see we were very late getting started. And this has all been done without firing a shot. 00:10:10 JACK GAINES Chinese economic inroads, Chinese economic inroads, which leads to political influence, is in, for example, South America and Africa. Just immense how fast that has come, how solid it is. Pacific Island, something similar is going on, something similar is going on. 00:10:27 SPEAKER_03 Look at the difficulties the Germans have had, weaning themselves off of this Chinese addiction. 00:10:34 SPEAKER_02 as a result, they have been able to improve their position politically, psychologically, economically, and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:36 SPEAKER_03 their position 00:10:40 GRANT NEWSHAM and they've been able to do this globally without having to use their military. 00:10:51 SPEAKER_02 Yeah, that's the idea. Is you don't want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. Yes, it's not showing up off of San Diego just yet. But places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more of a Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have done this other sort of warfare. 00:10:53 JACK GAINES want to. So our view of warfare is like a hundred -yard dash. Wherever the two sides come to the line, shake loose, and then someone fires a gun, and then someone fires a gun, and then it's game on. To the Chinese, the war has started long ago. And you're wearing down your opponent. You're weakening his ability to resist. You're creating chaos in his own country. There's a word called entropy. Which is just breaking down. Entropic warfare is a word that 00:11:19 SPEAKER_03 sometimes gets used. For you're breaking down his ability to resist. And at the same time, of course, the Chinese are building up a military, which is very serious. 00:11:28 JACK GAINES Yes, it's not showing 00:11:33 JACK GAINES places closer to China, it's much more of an issue. Japan knows the problem they have with the People's Liberation Army. Pacific Island, Southeast Asia. You are seeing more 00:11:46 JACK GAINES Chinese presence. And the point is, when the time comes, you may not even be able to resist if the Chinese have 00:11:52 SPEAKER_03 this other 00:12:31 SPEAKER_02 That's exactly what it is. It's mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the word cognitive warfare. You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:33 JACK GAINES mental warfare. You're attacking the mind. You're attacking how people think about things. Some people use the 00:12:42 JACK GAINES You're the popular word. Yeah, you're attacking the mind. And so you can see how well it worked. And the Russians had a much poorer hand to play than 00:12:50 GRANT NEWSHAM the Chinese do. Because we do so much business with China. And you see how hard it is to do things like ban TikTok. We can't even get that done. 00:12:59 SPEAKER_02 We can't even get that done. 00:13:03 SPEAKER_02 Look, 72 hours, if that for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which is using our own legal system. And the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have been just with that. 00:13:04 JACK GAINES for the Indians do, we can do it. And you see how Chinese successfully use what they call lawfare, which 00:13:13 JACK GAINES the idea is that you get proxies, influential foreigners in your target country to actually do your bidding for you. The Chinese have like five aces to play. The Russians might have won, but you can see how successful the Russians have 00:13:41 SPEAKER_02 Uh -huh. Uh -huh. 00:13:46 SPEAKER_02 Well, you're right about the Russians, but the Chinese understand that the term gray zone paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working something out. 00:13:51 GRANT NEWSHAM paralyzes Americans. We have no idea what to do because of our view of warfare being until the shooting starts. That it is we're not really at war. There's still hope of working 00:14:03 SPEAKER_03 something out. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_02 That has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that we have to have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons proliferation, climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into China's behavior, its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and go on the rides. 00:14:05 SPEAKER_03 has been our rote response for all these years, is to not get the Chinese mad, don't provoke them, and we have convinced ourselves that 00:14:14 JACK GAINES have Chinese help with fill -in -the -blank, North Korea transnational crime, nuclear weapons 00:14:22 JACK GAINES climate change, and therefore we cannot challenge the PRC because we won't get their cooperation. That's what we've effectively handcuffed ourselves, but when it comes to that so -called hybrid warfare, it's not all that It's not all that complicated if you recognize what it is and how it fits into 00:14:42 JACK GAINES its strategy. But you also would do well to attract from other directions where they're particularly vulnerable. And that is where you take advantage of the fact, for example, the Chinese currency is not freely convertible, which means that outside of China, nobody really wants Chinese money. It's like the script at a... It's like the script where you can use it to buy caramel corn and 00:15:06 SPEAKER_02 That's it. Nobody wants it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most of them have wealth overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this is illegal. And this is illegal. 00:15:08 JACK GAINES it. So choke that off and China's got some real problems. Another is the just thoroughgoing corruption of China's ruling class. And most 00:15:19 GRANT NEWSHAM overseas, foreign bank accounts. foreign bank accounts, relatives with green cards, relatives with green cards, some operate businesses overseas. And this 00:15:31 SPEAKER_02 And this is where that really scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. This bothered them. 00:15:33 JACK GAINES scares them. Because in 2011 or 2012, New 00:15:37 SPEAKER_03 York Times and Bloomberg actually put out some good stories about the overseas wealth of China's top people, including Xi Jinping's family. 00:15:46 GRANT NEWSHAM I've never seen a reaction from the Chinese like that one. 00:15:53 SPEAKER_02 More than anything else we've ever done. That's... 00:15:53 GRANT NEWSHAM than anything 00:16:14 SPEAKER_02 One way to do it. Another way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:16 JACK GAINES way to do it. That would be a tactical thing. Say you were to 00:16:19 SPEAKER_03 release, say, every Friday. Say at 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 1 a .m. 1 o 'clock or whenever. 00:16:25 SPEAKER_02 Which of the top 50 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. And that is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen absorb any amount of punishment. And they even talk about it. 00:16:27 SPEAKER_03 Chinese Communist Party officials? And make sure it 00:16:29 GRANT NEWSHAM reached everywhere in China. The thing that the public really hates is this corruption. And by the top dogs. 00:16:38 JACK GAINES is something that really bothers them. And you note that the Chinese leadership is very willing to have the average Chinese citizen 00:16:49 JACK GAINES they even talk about it. 00:16:51 SPEAKER_02 But when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:16:51 JACK GAINES when it's personal, then they see it very differently. And this is one of the few ways to really make it personal for them is to capitalize on this corruption. So when we talk about... Dealing with Gray's own operations, we're probably not going to be all that successful. Because they have more ships, they can be in more places. 00:17:14 SPEAKER_02 But expose that. They can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think 00:17:15 JACK GAINES can do that. Have we made a concerted effort to expose Chinese bribery, the illicit payments, the corruption that they put into everywhere they go? Everywhere there's a Chinese presence, you have corruption of the society, the political class as well. And do we ever target that? Do we consider it a priority effort? I don't even think we consider it an effort at all. Exposure is the one thing that has a huge effect. This is why investigative journalists 00:17:44 SPEAKER_03 get big. It's why like Irish. gangsters try to murder them in Malta they get blown up because they're effective because they're effective which 00:17:52 SPEAKER_02 is the thing that makes it very hard for corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It gives them something to work with. It gives them something to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, administrations. And get rid of them and replace them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where people like to be cheaters. Where people like to be cheaters. Where they like their leaders to be corrupt. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you get local reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some problems. But they have played their hand very well today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it gets. 00:17:52 SPEAKER_03 is the thing that makes it 00:17:54 JACK GAINES corruption to work and that's where I think We have some real opportunities to make it very clear what's being done. And this is something that, if you expose it, you can really capitalize on it. Just make it too hard to do this. And it also gives oxygen to the honest people in a country. It 00:18:16 JACK GAINES to work with. To take on these repressive regimes, these corrupt regimes, these corrupt regimes, 00:18:23 JACK GAINES them with honest people. I've never met anywhere, anywhere I've been. Over the years. Where 00:18:32 JACK GAINES I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. I just haven't met it. I've been anywhere. It's just nothing you can do. But it's just nothing you can do. It really has an effect. And that's where I think government for sources could be effectively devoted. And particularly once you 00:18:46 GRANT NEWSHAM reporters in on it. Once you get the local. Honest locals in on it. Honest locals in on it. And that's where I think we could be very effective. 00:18:56 JACK GAINES Corruption, as you've mentioned, that really is the grease to everything the Chinese communists do globally. Take it away and then take away their access to dollars, convertible currency. And they've really got some 00:19:12 JACK GAINES today. But in some ways it's a house of cards. I don't think it's that hard to take on. But the longer you wait, the harder it 00:19:28 SPEAKER_02 In regards to U .S. policy, in policy, there really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to effectively safeguard what you call freedom consensual government. Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't fight on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not more, than the military. 00:19:30 SPEAKER_03 in policy, there 00:19:31 JACK GAINES really is a... a desire that the United States stays around in Asia, that maintains its military might, and is able to 00:19:45 JACK GAINES Because if you go around the region, nobody wants to be dominated by the PRC. But they do have a huge advantage, particularly economically, that they're seen by leaders and business people in a lot of these countries. That's really the source of... some wealth, some prosperity. And we would do well, for example, to see the fight as just as much an economic 00:20:09 GRANT NEWSHAM one as a military one. Because we could build up our military, rebuild it, and we could have 800 ships in the Navy, and still lose. If we don't 00:20:19 JACK GAINES on these other fronts, we don't want you here because we're doing too much business with China. And that's where the U .S., along with its friends, the Japanese, the Koreans, the Indians, the Australians, 00:20:30 GRANT NEWSHAM we would do well to operate together more and to see the economic front and the political warfare fronts as a priority effort as much, if not 00:20:40 JACK GAINES more, than the 00:20:45 SPEAKER_02 They have a role to play if they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure out the motivations for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? And this is where you can really make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:20:47 JACK GAINES they're properly harnessed. But you do know that these days you don't see the Yankee trader that used to exist. You'd run to Americans everywhere trying to sell something to do business. Not 00:20:59 SPEAKER_03 so much these days. And we've almost ceded the far -flung part to the world. Because, well, the return on investment isn't enough. That's not an attractive enough proposition. Well, then let's 00:21:10 GRANT NEWSHAM make it one. Plus, you do have, say, the Japanese, the Indians, who are much better at operating in these places, to put it together into a coherent plan. Understand what it 00:21:20 JACK GAINES is, political warfare, and not just block the Chinese political warfare effort, but actually have our own campaign. And it really is worth doing some homework, I think, for a lot of people into what political warfare is. One sees the opportunities, but it takes a certain type of person who's good at it. versus a civil affairs guy. Versus a civil affairs guy. He's going to see different... He's going to see parts of the battlefield in a different way. 00:21:50 SPEAKER_03 Yes, sometimes you want the tank. But then there's this other part of it all. That is almost like a liberal arts test. Here you have to figure 00:22:00 JACK GAINES for things. You have to figure out how a society works. And then how do you appeal to it using the things that are parts of political warfare? 00:22:10 JACK GAINES make some mileage. You've got to have both. Make no mistake. If you're not able to destroy things and kill people, the civil affairs part isn't going to get you very far. But combine the two, and then you've really got something that's very hard to take on if you're the bad guys. We talk about defending Taiwan, and how important it is, and it is, I think, indispensable, 00:22:32 GRANT NEWSHAM that China does not take Taiwan and enslave 23 million people. If they did that... 00:22:39 SPEAKER_02 Asia would turn red overnight, as every country tried to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, 00:22:39 GRANT NEWSHAM would turn red overnight, as every country tried 00:22:42 SPEAKER_03 to cut the best deal they could. No country anywhere 00:22:46 JACK GAINES on Earth would have much confidence in American promises that will protect them. But one of the ways to actually defend 00:22:51 GRANT NEWSHAM Taiwan is, yes, they could maybe use F -35s and long -range missiles and smart pines, etc. You do have to have all of this stuff. Is it enough, even? Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. 00:23:02 SPEAKER_02 Particularly if the other side says, okay, we'll absorb whatever you can send at us, but you're finished. But one of the ways that... But one of the ways is to give them a free trade agreement to improve their economy to the point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? build up the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some effort. 00:23:11 JACK GAINES give them a free trade agreement to 00:23:16 JACK GAINES point that the government felt like it had money to spend on defense. You get a certain confidence in the entire society when they're more prosperous. Salaries are very low in Taiwan. Make it so people feel like they've got more money. Can they can buy a house? Can they can buy a condominium? 00:23:35 JACK GAINES the economy and that has a ripple effect throughout the society and on their military itself. And yet we didn't do that. And I think that's where we should apply some 00:24:25 SPEAKER_02 I think you're right. And it's essential that we start to understand. You look at much of the debate about us in China. What happens when the two forces go at each other? And that's almost like... Going up behind the Waffle House. Going up behind the Waffle House. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. To see who's the toughest guy in Prince William County. Out back. But think of all the things that go into whether or not the two hoodlums. There's all sorts of reasons why. No, there may

From the BBC World Service: Norway has suspended its plans for commercial-scale deep sea mining after facing criticism from environmental scientists. In the Pacific, the Cook Islands hopes the practice could help bolster its economy, but it’s not without opposition. But first: South Korea’s acting president has ordered a safety inspection of the country’s entire airline system after 179 people were killed in a plane crash on Sunday.

From the BBC World Service: Norway has suspended its plans for commercial-scale deep sea mining after facing criticism from environmental scientists. In the Pacific, the Cook Islands hopes the practice could help bolster its economy, but it’s not without opposition. But first: South Korea’s acting president has ordered a safety inspection of the country’s entire airline system after 179 people were killed in a plane crash on Sunday.

From the BBC World Service: Norway has suspended its plans for commercial-scale deep sea mining after facing criticism from environmental scientists. In the Pacific, the Cook Islands hopes the practice could help bolster its economy, but it’s not without opposition. But first: South Korea’s acting president has ordered a safety inspection of the country’s entire airline system after 179 people were killed in a plane crash on Sunday.

Climate change is forcing an increasing number of people to move from their homes, due to severe weather events and worsening environmental conditions. Some estimates forecast more than 1 billion people could be displaced globally by 2050. The Pacific Islands are among the world's most vulnerable, where relocation is the only option for some communities.

Welcome to Season 4, Episode 52! Happy Holidays! This is an ICYMI Encore Episode of S03E49, Christmas Traditions in Asia and the Pacific Islands. Christmas is a holiday that can be celebrated in a religious or secular way. So how is it celebrated in Asia and the Pacific Islands? In this episode, we discuss some of the unique traditions and foods you might find in countries across Asia, Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia. Some of the traditions are pretty interesting and fun. Spoilers… we spend a little extra time talking about the Philippines because they LOVE Christmas! If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or social media links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com.

Today, half of the world’s population lives around the Pacific Rim. This ocean has been the crossroads of international travel, trade, and commerce for at least 500 years. The economy was driven by workers in rickety sailing boats like in Moby Dick. The risk of starvation, dehydration, shipwreck, sinking, and death began as soon as you stepped out into open water. Today, we’re going to zero in on one of those stories. On December 10, 1887, a shark fishing boat disappeared. On board the doomed vessel were the Walkers—the ship’s captain Frederick, his wife Elizabeth, their three teenage sons, and their dog—along with the ship’s crew. The family had spotted a promising fishing location when a terrible storm arose, splitting their vessel in two. The Walker family was shipwrecked on a deserted island in the South Pacific. The survivors soon discovered that their island refuge was already inhabited by a ragged and emaciated man who introduced himself as Hans. This fellow castaway quickly educated the Walkers and their crew on the island’s resources. But Hans had a secret, and as the Walkers slowly came to learn more, the luck of having this mysterious stranger’s assistance would become something more ominous. To look at this story and the wider world of Pacific maritime life – and death – we are joined by today’s guest, Matthew Pearl, author of “Save our Souls: The True Story of a Castaway Family, Treachery, and Murder.”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

AP correspondent Charles de Ledesma reports on a major earthquake causing widespread damage in the Pacific island nation of Vanuatu.

Climate change is intensifying, sea levels are rising and the very existence of low-lying Pacific Islands is under threat. The Cook Islands, though, has a plan to assure their peoples' future. Enter deep sea mining, harvesting metallic nodules on the bottom of the sea floor for use in things like electric car batteries and mobile phones. Its supporters say it's a climate change ‘solution'- a better alternative to mining on land. And one that could make Cook Islanders very rich indeed. Its detractors worry we're messing with its Moana - or ocean – with no real idea of the impacts. Katy Watson travels to Rarotonga to find out how islanders feel about searching for ‘gold' on the sea floor.

Climate change is intensifying, sea levels are rising and the very existence of low-lying Pacific Islands is under threat. The Cook Islands, though, has a plan to assure their peoples' future. Enter deep sea mining, harvesting metallic nodules on the bottom of the sea floor for use in things like electric car batteries and mobile phones. Its supporters say it's a climate change ‘solution'- a better alternative to mining on land. And one that could make Cook Islanders very rich indeed. Its detractors worry we're messing with its Moana - or ocean – with no real idea of the impacts. Katy Watson travels to Rarotonga to find out how islanders feel about searching for ‘gold' on the sea floor.Producer: Lindle Markwell Presenter: Katy Watson Studio Manager: James Beard Production Coordinator: Gemma Ashman Editor: Penny Murphy

In this fortnight's episode, Gyles and Aphra Brandreth sit down with Betty S. Chapau, a writer from Manus Province in Papua New Guinea, to discuss her journey of blending storytelling with her cultural roots. With a background in engineering, Betty shares how her Pacific Island heritage and childhood surrounded by traditional stories inspired her to write. She talks about her first published essay, "Harim Mi," featured in the My Walk to Equality anthology in 2017, and her recent poem, “A Love Letter,” published in Pasefika Presence in 2023. Now a full-time mother, Betty runs her own writing website, Pihindras, where she continues to keep her culture alive through her words.

Jim and Ray welcome Suzanne Vares-Lum, retired U.S. Army Major General, outgoing President of the East-West Center and Director-designate of the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. Together they explore the geopolitical significance of the geographically vast but sparsely populated Pacific Islands region.They discuss how these small island nations have found themselves in the midst of the great-power competition between the U.S. and China, while many have also become unlikely players in the cross-strait tensions between Taiwan and China. At the same time, the concerns that preoccupy these nations at international gatherings such as the Pacific Islands Forum include illegal fishing and climate change.Suzy explains how the U.S. has been renewing its commitment to many of these countries through education and leadership programs, as well as opening new embassies and funding infrastructure projects. To close, Ray tells the story of when he dispatched a special forces officer to rescue a stuffed animal.

Disney Princess Moana may voyage across a fantasy version of the Pacific ocean, and represent an amalgamation of several islands' cultures. But she is based on many real-life women who have led their people with courage, strength and compassion. From a 13th century Queen of Samoa who protected her people and was revered as a Goddess, to the 27 year old woman who was crowned Queen of the Māori in September 2024. Let's meet X inspiring real-life Queens from the Pacific Islands. Nafanua, Queen of Samoa (1200s) Purea, Queen of Tahiti (1722.-1775) Vaekehu, Queen of Nuku Hiva (1823–1901) Lili'uokalani, Queen of Hawai'i (1838-1917) Makea Takau Ariki, Queen of the Cook Islands (1839–1911) Sālote Tupou III, Queen of Tonga (1900-1965) Ngā Wai Hono i te Pō, Queen of the Māori (1997) Sources: “Women of Power” documentary from TheCoconetTV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibQdMfuPYc Moana 2 Wikipedia Join me every Tuesday when I'm Spilling the Tea on History! Check out my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/lindsayholiday Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091781568503 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/historyteatimelindsayholiday/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@historyteatime Please consider supporting me at https://www.patreon.com/LindsayHoliday and help me make more fascinating episodes! Intro Music: Baroque Coffee House by Doug Maxwell Music: Ukulele Beach by Doug Maxwell #HistoryTeaTime #LindsayHoliday #moana #moana2 Please contact advertising@airwavemedia.com if you would like to advertise on this podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Become a Client: https://nomadcapitalist.com/apply/ Get our free Weekly Rundown newsletter and be the first to hear about breaking news and offers:https://nomadcapitalist.com/email Join us for the next Nomad Capitalist Live event: https://nomadcapitalist.com/live/ In this video, we cover the breaking news of the Pacific island nation of Nauru launching a citizenship by investment program. We explain how much Nauru's passport costs, both for an individual and a family, and who might benefit from this program. Mr. Henderson also details how Nauruan citizenship could fit into a passport portfolio and a holistic plan. Nomad Capitalist helps clients "go where you're treated best." We are the world's most sought-after firm for offshore tax planning, dual citizenship, international diversification, and asset protection. We use legal and ethical strategies and work exclusively with seven- and eight-figure entrepreneurs and investors. We create and execute holistic, multi-jurisdictional Plans that help clients keep more of their wealth, increase their personal freedom, and protect their families and wealth against threats in their home country. No other firm offers clients access to more potential options to relocate to, bank in, or become a citizen of. Because we do not focus only on one or a handful of countries, we can offer unbiased advice where others can't. Become Our Client: https://nomadcapitalist.com/apply/ Our Website: http://www.nomadcapitalist.com/ About Our Company: https://nomadcapitalist.com/about/ Buy Mr. Henderson's Book: https://nomadcapitalist.com/book/ DISCLAIMER: The information in this episode should not be considered tax, financial, investment, or any kind of professional advice. Only a professional diagnosis of your specific situation can determine which strategies are appropriate for your needs. Nomad Capitalist can and does not provide advice unless/until engaged by you.

Maybe you're still munching on your Thanksgiving leftovers. Or maybe you're too stuffed to even think about eating. But before you push away from the table, we're bringing you two of our favorite stories from over the years about…food! We start in East San José, at a scrappy strip mall anchored by a Vietnamese sandwich, or “bánh mì” shop doesn't look like much. But the corner of Burdette Dr. and S. King Rd is actually a California transportation hub. Every morning by 8 AM, there's a steady stream of riders lining up by a spotless white tour coach with no visible markings. They're here for the daily run of the Xe Đò Hoàng, which means “Royal Coach” in Vietnamese. But those in the know call it the “Bánh Mì Bus.” Hop on, enjoy your delicious sandwich, and listen to this story from Reporter Christine Nguyen that we first brought you in October 2022 about food, community…and murder for hire!  Then, we jet up north to the town of Susanville in Lassen County–mostly known for its two state prisons. But the town is also home to a chef cooking up gourmet meals, inspired by his childhood in the Pacific Island nation of Palau. Rice and short-ribs, poke, and toasted angel food cake are just some of the culinary treats Brennan Temol whips up in the community college cafeteria. In August 2022, for her series California Foodways, reporter Lisa Morehouse took us on a food tour with Temol. She learned how the Palauan chef used his skills to elevate cafeteria food and found a way to bring a taste of home to a high desert community that in some ways, isn't so different from his homeland. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Julie Paama-Pengelly is a Māori tā moko artist, painter, commentator, & curator and is a veteran in the revitalization of taa moko Maaori tattooing. Her studio in Mount Maunganui, New Zealand mixes contemporary and traditional designs and cultivates artists from all walks of life. With expansive teaching experience, her art practice ranges from the use of symbolic imagery to pure abstraction in graphic design, painting, mixed media, and tattooing. Over time many misconceptions have surfaced about who has the right to wear and practice taa moko. Julie is one of the first women to practice in the male-dominated field. She is a strong voice for Maaori women's rights and continues to break down barriers to give women a place in taa moko and in the arts.Mark and Julie speak about the rebirth of Māori culture and tradition in recent decades, tā moko (Māori tattoo and body markings), breaking down barriers for women in her community, cultivating art and being a mentor for younger generations. Save What You Love with Mark Titus:⁣Produced: Emilie FirnEdited: Patrick Troll⁣Music: Whiskey Class⁣Instagram: @savewhatyoulovepodcastWebsite: savewhatyoulove.evaswild.comSupport wild salmon at evaswild.com

Episode 117 examines the intersection of climate change, national security, and irregular warfare, with a particular focus on how environmental changes are reshaping global security challenges from the Arctic to the Pacific Islands. Our guests begin by exploring pivotal moments in the evolution of environmental security and its impact on national defense policy. They then discuss how climate-related changes affect military operations and strategic partnerships, particularly in the Pacific region. The conversation continues with an analysis of how both state and non-state actors leverage environmental crises in irregular warfare tactics. They conclude by offering policy recommendations for addressing climate security challenges and building resilient international partnerships. Sherri Goodman is a Senior Fellow at the Wilson Center's Environmental Change and Security Program and Polar Institute. As the former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Environmental Security, she coined the term "threat multiplier" to describe climate change's impact on national security. She has served on numerous advisory boards and is the author of "Threat Multiplier: Climate, Military Leadership, and the Fight for Global Security." Ambassador John Hennessey-Niland is a Professor of Practice at the Bush School of Government and Public Service. As the former U.S. Ambassador to Palau, he brings extensive experience in Pacific region affairs. His previous roles include serving as the foreign policy advisor to the Commander of U.S. Marine Corps Forces Pacific, and he has held various diplomatic positions across Europe and the Pacific, providing him with unique insights into the intersection of environmental security and irregular warfare.