Podcasts about Chickasaw

Keith Weinhold plays a “financial superhero”, defending investors against the "greedy landlord" myth. A Zillow survey reveals the secret sauce of rental success: budget, location, and bedroom count - with pets stealing the show as the ultimate tenant dealbreaker. He exposes the dollar's sneaky inflation plot, showing how savvy investors can turn borrowing into a wealth-building adventure. Imagine homes that cost half their gold price from 100 years ago - mind-blowing!  Real estate investing isn't just a strategy - it's an epic journey of wealth creation!  Resources: GREmarketplace.com/OklahomaCity GREmarketplace.com/Tulsa Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/episode/557 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. Are Real Estate Investors greedy by nature? Learn why? In a sense, today's homes are actually half price compared to 100 years ago. Then results from a huge tenant survey that reveals the amenities that you must give renters or else they will leave how media headlines can trick you and more today on get rich education.   Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter, remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com   Corey Coates  1:56   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:12   Welcome to GRE from Cape Hatteras, North Carolina to the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. 100 years ago, you could buy the average home with eight kilos of gold. Today, it only costs you four more on that later. But first, as a real estate investor, has a critic or a tenant ever insinuated some form of these two questions to you, either, is it ethical for you to own multiple homes, or even, are you greedy? Now, I doubt that you're going to be asked that question directly, but sometimes you can feel that that's the vibe that someone else is on. Well, there sure are greedy people in the world. You could be rich and greedy, or you could be poor and greedy. Even the definition of greed is an excessive and selfish desire for more wealth than one needs, often driven by a destructive motive. All right, that's the definition like you're willing to destroy other people in the pursuit of wealth that is rather different than acquiring wealth, which is usually done only when you first fulfill the needs of others. All right? Well, say that your critic makes $60,000 per year. Oh, well, then that means that they're in the top 1% of global income earners. I mean, sheesh, then they're like the Jeff Bezos of the developing world. So to help even things out, should your critic have to send half of their salary to Senegal or Mauritania or Burkina Faso if the critic's home has more than one bathroom in it, or they even own one car. Well, then they're fabulously wealthy by world standards. Then do they have to give it away to avoid being greedy? What if they ever worked overtime for extra money? Like is that evidence of certain greed? All that stuff is ridiculous, preposterous amounts don't create greed Spirit does. There is no implicit Machiavellian intent. If you have more wealth than average, where would you even draw the line? Like, once you hit seven rental properties? Oh, that's just fine, but eight of them is too many, or once you live in a home that costs 50% more than an area's median, then is that when it becomes greed? I mean, this doesn't make sense. Higher housing prices these past five years has to do with the lack of housing supply and with the. Abundance of dollar printing. It's those two things. The culprits aren't rental property owners. The culprits are burdensome development regulations and the Federal Reserve printing all the dollars, not your local landlord. Responsible landlords provide and maintain sound housing, and they do that for complete strangers, they're taking a lot of faith. Oh, so then could the tenant actually be the greedy one, if they both resent and expect that treatment from a stranger for free? I mean, real estate investors, hey, we take on risk, DEBT, TAXES, maintenance, insurance, market volatility, and we have the responsibility of building and maintaining a good credit score in most cases. I mean, you're the one that's truly invested in the property, not a tenant that can choose to move out in 30 or 60 days. Landlords are a bit like umpires. They're rarely appreciated, and they only get noticed when they do something wrong. I know I mentioned to you before that when I buy a property pretty soon, I casually mention to my tenant that, you know, each month, I just have to make them aware. Each month I make a big mortgage payment and I have to pay for property tax and insurance on this place. I mean, it's amazing to see how far that little mention goes with both timely rent collection and that they don't resent you as a landlord over time. See, tenants often don't know this because they've never owned property themselves, and actually, as you know, since I use property managers now, I don't make this mention to tenants anymore. See, to tenants often it can feel like they're just sort of renting air, and the rent payments they make to you are very visible to them. What's invisible to them are all of your expenses. You're the one as the investor that's contributing to communities. You are the good steward of a neighborhood's housing stock, and you provide homes for people who either can't or don't want to buy the myth of the evil landlord. It really just ignores realities. I mean, mom and pop investors own 72% of single family rental homes, and the typical landlord owns fewer than three units. Many don't have 401 Ks. I mean, rental properties are their retirement plan. So most landlords, real estate investors, they're not cigar chomping tycoons twirling mustaches atop piles of gold like Scrooge McDuck. They're regular people. So perspectives like this that can really help you ward off both critics and unaware tenants. And you know what odds are, if they had the opportunity, they would often do the same thing at a time when pensions are rare and inflation runs rampant. Who could blame anyone for seeking assets that grow in value and generate income. Here's what you need to know. Everyone plays the financial game in the context of their own economy. You Your critic and your tenant, your awareness and your mindset from listening to the show is merely more broad than others. If everyone understood that being wealthy is actually a choice like you do, we would all be better off. So the bottom line here is that real estate investors are not villains. They're just people trying to build a financial life raft in a financial ocean that is full of icebergs. Rich people aren't necessarily greedy, just like poor people aren't necessarily lazy. Greed exists in somebody's spirit, not in the amount of your net worth or whatever your income level is,.    All right., Well, heading into the summer here, there are more tenant moves than any other season. Rental demand has stayed fairly strong, not super strong, just fairly strong, with rents only up about 2% annually. When you amalgamate single family rentals and apartments, the share of rentals with a concession is dropping because the rental market is fairly strong, and when renters find a place, a lot of them are staying put, like it's the last lifeboat off the Titanic. Of course, these are all phenomena on a national level, and each local area is different. I mean that right, there is something that I could say on nearly every episode with low affordability, the home ownership rate is down and renter numbers are up. Now. I told you a while ago that it would go down that home ownership rate, and in the latest quarter ended, that home ownership rate has dropped from 65.7 down to 65.1 Percent. And that might not sound like much, but homeownership down six tenths of 1% in just a quarter. That means that there are at least about 500,000 new renters in America. More renters means more rental demand, more occupancy, and it's crucial for you to know what those renters want so that you can best serve them again. You're not greedy. You're trying to serve them as well as you can now, Zillow has an arm. It's called the Zillow group population science. It's something I hadn't even heard of until recently. What Zillow did with this group is they surveyed 36,000 US renters of both single family rentals and apartments to find out what trends are and what renters want. And I read their entire lengthy report. I think it was 40 pages, so that you don't have to and what I did is I pulled out the most salient pieces to help you attract and retain tenants, and the top three criteria that renters really consider essential when deciding whether or not to rent your property are the first thing, and 95% said this is that it's got To be within their budget, second, at 85% preferred location. Hmm, does that mean near tacos and coffee shops? And then the third most important thing renters consider essential at 84% is the preferred bedroom count. After that, the Floor Plan and the layout that fits their preferences was most important. After that, it's the preferred number of bathrooms. So note that the preferred number of bedrooms, then, is more important in making the rental decision than the preferred number of bathrooms, although they both matter. And then after that, in order of decreasing importance, is broadband internet, allowing pets and having common amenities like a gym, a business center, a rooftop and a lounge and those things, those common amenities, they were substantially more important for apartment renters than for single family home renters, as you would imagine. And here's key, a separate survey question was asked, What is the main reason that you passed on a particular property and decided not to rent it. Number one easily was that the property prohibited pets. The second biggest choice had to do with pets as well. It was that the property restricted the pet breed or size. The reasons that renters passed on a particular property are so centered around pets. What do pets rule this housing market? Now, that's kind of how it seems. Now, another thing that this survey revealed is like, gosh, it also seems like the age for doing almost anything in America is up. The median renter is age 42 did you have any idea there? 42 probably older than you thought. And the older people are, generally, the quieter they are, and the less they move. The most common application fee paid is $50 that's what the survey found. Hey, maybe that's one thing that hasn't been slapped with tariffs. It's an online world. The typical renter surveyed reported taking only one in person tour. Everything else is swiping, scrolling or going deep on Google Street View. Basically what tenants do is they check out everything online, and then once they've chosen the place that they want to rent, they often make that decision right there online, and then basically that one in person visit is just them showing up to confirm that there aren't any red flags at that place, that they mostly know that they won. And this is good for you if you're self managing and you're showing the places yourselves. I mean, there are just fewer tire kickers than there were back in the day. I mean, hey, talk to your parents. 25 years ago, rental ads were like four lines in a newspaper, no photos at all, so tenants then they had to show up in person to see what a rental place even looked like. Let's look at the percent of renter households in America by household income, less than $50,000 57% of renters were in that range, 50 to 100k 29% and 100k or more, 15% as far as how much security deposit you need to give, 75% of renters said their first month's rent was required to Secure the rental, and only 25% said that they also had to fork over last month's rent to secure it. In a really strong rental market, you can more often ask for that both first and last month's rent to get in. 40% reported getting their entire security deposit back at the end of the rental. Hmm, I guess the. Others pay for that mysterious carpet stain. Most pay additional fees on the rental, 58% and that's things like water, sewer, garbage, recycling or other utilities. And it even includes payment processing. There some landlords charge for that. And again, what I'm talking about here is single family rentals and apartments combined. All right, so more single family renters are going to pay for separate utilities on top of the rent. Of course, about half of American renters have renter's insurance. At 48% I suppose the others are living dangerously. A typical renter uses four websites or apps in their search and as I'm continuing on here with the results from this Zillow Rental survey of 36,000 renters, it also showed that the top three reasons that current renters say that they decide to stay long term are and this is big. I mean, this is about your retention rate. 72% stay long term because they say rental costs are a good deal, that's why they stay next most important is quiet neighbors. Yes, no drum kits or free range toddlers will help in apartments. One noisy neighbor can upset a lot of tenants, but a noisy neighbor that might not be a problem at all when people are dispersed in a single family rental and then the third most important thing in long term retention is 68% of renters stay in a unit because they can't afford to move elsewhere. Two thirds of tenants said their landlord or property manager notified them of a rent increase in the past two years, 37% of renters said they would be very or extremely likely to buy a home if mortgage rates fell. All right, that's about three in eight renters say that as far as the length of leases in America, 64% signed on for a one year lease, and 24% said their lease is longer than a year. So really, to summarize what you've learned here from that survey is that you need to know your audience, 42 year olds with pets and a strong preference for quiet neighbors. Keep your pricing competitive. Embrace tech. People want to apply and pay and do things online, and your tenants will stick around longer. You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.    Here at GRE, we do both get riched occasion.com. Is where you learn through this very show and our videos over there, and our blog articles and more. The name gre marketplace.com is where you take action and see the markets and providers that make the best income properties nationwide. GRE marketplace is also where you get access to our totally free investment coaching strategy sessions with a real human being that has both an MBA and investing experience. And that's something we added three or four years ago that really helps you be profitable as an investor, get paid five ways so that you can have more income and wealth and perhaps even retire early. We help you find the right exact property addresses. That's what we help you do compared to 100 years ago, homes are half price today. This is fascinating. I'll get into that shortly. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com. You know what's crazy?    Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds, just say. They're doing nothing. Check it out. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to66866   Speaker 1  20:17   what's up? Everyone? This is HGTV. Tarek al Musa. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:35   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the headlines say homes are so expensive that you'd think millennials would be forced to live in IKEA showrooms. Now, a year or two ago, here on the show, I think I mentioned to you that at that time, it took eight kilos of gold to buy the average home, about 100 years ago, and at that time, only six. Well today, it took eight kilos of gold to buy an average home in 1920 but it's only four kilos now, in terms of gold, homes are half the price today, and I sent you that pretty shocking image showing this in our newsletter a month or two ago. So what in the monetary twilight zone has happened in the past 100 years? Well, a lot of things. The 1913 creation of the Federal Reserve inflated away your dollar's purchasing power over time. This was basically like giving your teen a credit card with no limit and hoping for the best, then removing the dollar's last link to gold redeemability in 1971 that freed the rains for unlimited dollar creation. And Robert Kiyosaki was here to discuss exactly that on the show with us on episode 358 go back and listen to episode 358 if you haven't heard it and you want to. Before long, dollars got so flimsy that dive bars started stapling them to the wall as decor, and it seems like the next stop for the dollar is kindling for your backyard fire pit. Now, there is, however, an affordability problem today that keeps renters staying as renters. But part of the calculus here is that homes only seem expensive because their values are usually compared to dollars. But that's faulty, because dollars are a moving measuring stick. This is like saying that an hour has 60 minutes in it this year and next year, it'll only have 55 minutes in it. That doesn't work. I mean, she should a few years, everyone would run a marathon in under an hour at that rate. Okay, so changing the measuring stick defeats the very purpose of a measuring stick. Here's what's even more amazing than that fact about the gold, despite that, homes only cost half as much today as they did in 1920 in terms of gold, you also get more home today. Today's homes have smaller lot sizes, smaller yards, but otherwise they have amenities that people couldn't have even dreamed of in 1920 I mean, this is really interesting. Let's compare a typical 1920 new home to a 2025 new home. We've gone from 1048 square feet up to 2411 so the size has more than doubled. Back then there was no Garage. Today you've got a heated garage. Back then you had one bathroom or even an outhouse in 1920 Oh, today you have two or three or even more indoor bathrooms in just the average new build home back in 1920 you had a wood burning stove that you had to keep loading, and you're like splitting and stacking firewood and storing that somewhere. Today, you have central heating. Just push a button. Back more than 100 years ago, you had no AC. Today, AC is completely standard. You had no insulation a lot of times in 1920 homes today you've got smart insulation. You used to have a very basic kitchen. Today you've got a center island and granite and quartz countertops. You had an ice box back in 1920 and a nice refrigerator or two. Today, back then, you had no dishwasher or garbage disposal. Today, you have both. Back in 1920 you had to use a washboard in a ringer to wash and dry your clothing. Can you imagine that today you have a washing machine? You had an outdoor clothesline back then today you have a dryer back in. 1920 you had these claw foot bathtubs, and often no shower. Today you have both bathtubs and showers, and several of them. Back then you had nothing where today you have a dedicated laundry room, and a lot of times a home office, and sometimes even a gym. I mean, so all those changes right there over the last 105 years. This really puts the exclamation point on the fact that homes are cheaper today. In terms of the value that you get, today's homes might be a third or a quarter of the price that they were a century ago. You can't point to mortgage rates either. They're still below their long run average of 7.7% per Freddie Mac the thing you've got to point to, the big problem here, the elephant in the room, is that salaries have not kept up with inflation, and that is the real crux of the problem in hurting homes affordability. Look, and this could be a real epiphany for you here that affordability fact is even more reason to move today's depreciating dollars into real assets and move that with emphasis and with urgency, dollar savers are just such massive losers. All right, so then, what is the opposite of saving dollars? Some people think it's spending dollars. No, the opposite of saving is not spending. It's borrowing dollars. That's how you go negative on that. The opposite of spending is not saving, it is borrowing. That is how you go negative and short the falling dollar. This really it's all just a fresh approach on what people need to consider doing. Borrow dollars, own income property, let tenants pay your debt, let inflation also shrink your debt like a cheap shirt that spends too much time in a clothing dryer, and just watch inflation pump up your asset price at the same time. Now you are just winning all over the place. You are racking up more wins than Novak Djokovic at the Australian Open. That's why I am resolute about saying what no one else out there says real estate done right is not an inflation hedge. A hedge is a defensive investing strategy where you break even. I mean, no one plays a game hoping for an outcome of a tie, spending money as an inflation hedge. That's why I refer to borrowing for income property as inflation profiting. That's the reason why. And see, other people's money pays down your debt, both the tenant and the inflation are whittling that away for you. Oh, and hey, for my fellow math weirdos, in 1920 a new home cost $6,300 and there are 35 ounces in a kilo of gold, and you can figure out the rest from there to see that homes cost half as much in gold. Now the bottom line here is that the real estate market is not broken. The dollar is and that dollar measuring stick is so miserably distorted and perverted that some people can't even see what's going on anymore. I've got another interesting way of helping you see this.    Let's look at something more recent than 1920 let's go back 30 years. Do you have any idea what the median us home price was then? Any guess 30 years ago, that's kind of charming. It was a modest $130,000 All right, with an 80% loan and zero principal pay down your mortgage balance would be a featherweight 104k today, that is a clear way of seeing how inflation debases your debt. And of course, the tenant would have paid it off for you by now as well. But I mean a loan balance of $104,000 without any principal pay down, sheesh, that's less than some people's American Express card limit. Really think about that by removing the principal pay down component, you can really see with transparency and lucidity the effect of inflation whittling down a loan balance to 104k and that is just 25% of today's median home price of $416,900 that is a stark example of inflation profiting, how your debt got relentlessly debased by the Fed. And of course, rental properties tend to be less expensive than this median number that I'm talking about. So the typical rental property is. In this scenario, you might just have a loan balance of 75k today, here, 30 years later, and the property would be worth, say, 300k inflation makes your loan balances feel like a featherweight over time. All right, now let's go somewhat further back in time again, 1950s Florida.    Last month, in our newsletter, I sent you those fascinating old newspaper clippings from a real estate sales ad from 1955 in the Miami area and a two bedroom, single family home, one bath, screened porch and a carport. Its price was $7,450 for the entire Miami area home. And the ad also showed that your monthly payment is $48 and then, okay, so that was a two bedroom, single family home this Miami area, three bed, one bath home with a screen porch, $7,900 so only an extra 450 bucks for an extra bedroom, that is the purchase price of the entire asset. And the monthly payments on this three bedroom are 50 bucks a month, a little more than the 48 bucks a month that it was for the two bedroom. And here's the thing, the monthly payment amount, as shown in this old newspaper advertisement, $48 and $50 that was principal, interest, taxes and insurance all together, a jaw dropping sub 8k for a Miami area home, not just Florida, but pricier Miami. I mean, can you imagine a Florida couple's home buying conversation in the mid 1950s there at Florida, honey, you're crazy if you think we're going to pay an extra $2 per month for a third bedroom. I mean, this is just astonishing. And yeah, my apologies for leaving you flabbergasted so many times in one episode. Gosh. Now to be sure, wages were lower back then, but back then, only one parent had to work. They still managed to buy homes, raise a family, and even pay for a milkman who actually delivered the milk. And now, you know, if we fast forward to the future, future generations, they're going to marvel at today's incredibly low median home price of 400 to 450k Yes, therefore you will be the one doing the flabbergasting, and you'll leave people From 2070 feeling abjectly flabbergasted when the median home price is $4 million then, I mean, it realistically could be, it could be more than that. It's the same way that today we're astonished at 1960s McDonald's menus where a burger was 15 cents. Yes, 15 cents is seriously how much McDonald's hamburger cost in the 60s. And of course, this is when restaurants also serve real meat and french fries cooked in tallow rather than seed oils, and shakes had real cream in them. That's all evidence of simultaneous skimpflation. But getting back to the monetary inflation, you know, as recently as 2011 we can even feel dazed and amazed about how the median home price, then was just $211,100 Yes, as recently as 2011 you're surely dazed and stupefied here, one thing I know, though, is that this did not leave you slack jawed, because Between you and I, we know there's only one slack job between us, and we know full well that that's not you. The bottom line, the bottom line here is that zooming out over time reveals a clear, uncomfortable truth. Savers get roasted, borrowers get rich. This is just a new way of looking at it.    And if you're a newer listener and you don't get our newsletter yet, it is free, full of value, and I write every word myself. There are more AI generated newsletters out there. That is not what this is. This is me to you, and to get the newsletter right now. Text. GRE to66866, 66866, we don't send you a bunch of texts that would be intrusive. It's an email newsletter. You can get it by texting GRE to 66866   Now, earlier this year, I talked with you about how home sales have crashed. When people read a media headline like that, home sales crash. You know, some people think that home prices are falling, but that's not. What that means is, you know, it means that the quantity of sales has fallen a lower transaction volume. With that in mind, to help you out in the future, when you're reading. For real estate and economic headlines, I jotted down a few fictitious headlines here, but yet they're the same type that you've seen before, and you'll see these again in the future, and they can be misleading. So let's straighten this out. Okay, here's the first fictitious yet realistic sounding headline, what people often think it means and what it really means. Developer uses tax loophole to deliver 200 unit apartment complex All right. Now, some people read that and they think that the developer is doing something nefarious or underhanded. No. Sometimes reporters use this word loopholes to describe legally created incentives to get much needed housing built. Reporters are often doing yeoman's work on behalf of NIMBYs. If this thing is producing more housing, then we need more loopholes, which are really incentives just like it. Here's another misleading headline. Now, almost all of the 50 states have a lower level of housing inventory than they did pre pandemic, but this headline says, Tennessee housing supply 4% more than pre pandemic levels. All right, some might see that headline and think, Oh, I guess that housing is a little oversupplied. Now, no, not necessarily, because most states had a scarce supply of inventory even before the pandemic hit back in 2020 the next headline is existing home sales fell off a cliff. All right, Did you note that this only includes existing homes, meaning resale homes, because, again, the headline is existing home sales fell off a cliff. So this doesn't include new builds. And there's nothing inherently falsified about some of these headlines. They just get misinterpreted. Softwood lumber prices hit all time record high. Okay, well, with persistent inflation, this might not be reason for alarm. Is it even an inflation adjusted high or not? Here's a headline, California leads the nation in out migration. All right, some people see this and assume that the California population is dropping. Well, maybe, maybe not. Again, the headline was, California leads the nation in out migration? Well, raw numbers aren't per capita. Cali is the largest state by population at almost 40 million. And also, if their in migration exceeds this out migration, well then they had positive net migration. And all of this doesn't even count births or deaths. You'd have to factor that in as well. The next headline is foreclosures Spike 50% year over year. Ooh, that sounds bad. And although this is a fake headline, just like the other ones that I'm telling you about, a phenomenon like this did recently occur, actually, but it's still at a really low level. It just rose from an extremely low level, two tenths of 1% up to three tenths of 1% that's a 50% gain. Here's a headline. You might see mortgage rates have dropped 2% this year. Maybe you'll see that in the future. Most people read something like this, and they assume that real estate values will resultantly soar. Well, maybe, maybe not. It sounds like homes are more affordable, and they would be, but the Fed might be cutting rates because the economy needs the help. It could mean we're in a recession. So if wages are down, even if mortgage rates are down, it might not actually be less affordable. The next fictitious headline is Philadelphia new build home prices surge 8% Oh, you're thinking that's got to be good, right? Well, I don't know what if new build Philly homes are constructed with 10% more square footage this year, but the price is only up 8% so they're actually selling at a lower cost per square foot. And this is also why existing home price change is more meaningful. The next fictitious headline is unemployment claims jump 30% in a week. All right? Well, this usually doesn't mean that there are mass layoffs and some economic Armageddon. If initial jobless claims rise from 200 up to 260k that's a 30% jump, but it's still low relative to recession levels, which are typically 400k plus and the last fictitious headline, Warren Buffett, b, u, F, F, E, T, invests $10 billion in apartment REITs. Oh, well, Buffett was spelled with only 1t Buffett should be spelled with a double T. Have you ever noticed that it is the most frequently misspelled name in financial media that's all for the headlines, so having the wherewithal about these sorts of things can help you better interpret what's happening in Real Estate's Future and the economy's future.    One of the most inexpensive national markets, I'll say, outside the Midwest, where you can own income property, where the numbers really make sense. An investor advantage place is in the state of Oklahoma. Some of these Oklahoma properties that we've begun dealing with here, they're pretty small. Like check out this single family rental I want to tell you about that's just 864 square feet. You know, more tenants desire this type of housing. Family sizes are smaller today, yet they want separation in the privacy of a single family home. And this one is brand new build, two beds, two baths, and the price is, get this $155,000 for new build. Yes, you heard that, right, and the projected rent is really strong. $1,250 I mean, this sort of cottage sized new build home is the type of product that can make the best rental, because if it were double the size, you might only get 50 or 60% more in rent. Now there's no garage on this new build 155k property, and you get all the finishes that you would expect from new construction. The second Oklahoma property to tell you about is this Tulsa duplex. This one really stands out. And Tulsa has over a million people in the metro. It was built just several months ago, $2,900 rent on a purchase price of about 360k and these ones, they've consistently appraised in the 375 to 380k range. So you could very well get some built in equity here with this duplex, where the numbers work pretty well as it is, each side of this new duplex has over 1300 square feet, three beds, two baths on each side, free management the first year, $3,000 cash to you post closing, all the nice finishes you'd expect with new build in this Tulsa duplex. So these two properties I've discussed here are really investor advantaged all new build. And that 155k single family rental was in Chickasaw, Oklahoma. And then the Tulsa duplex in the mid to high three hundreds. The next one is the last one. I'll mention. It's not as good of a deal, but it does look nicer because it's a brick faced new build single family rental for 320k in Lawton, Oklahoma. Lawton is more southwestern Oklahoma, with $2,400 rent, and it's 1800 square feet in this new build and just a little positive cash flow. The property tax rate is 1.1% property insurance is just 1250, a two car garage, all the types of finishes that you would expect with new build. So a property like this is if you're looking for a better quality tenant. Oklahoma City has had more happening than usual. You might have heard that the tallest building in the United States is planned to be built in Oklahoma City, yes, taller than anything in New York or Chicago. The Oklahoma City Thunder NBA team has been performing well. You know, those things are merely interesting and have almost nothing to do with the investor advantage. Rental properties, again, all three that I mentioned, there are new build. Not only are we in this persistent national housing shortage, but these entry level homes that make the best rentals, they're the ones that are in even shorter supply. That's a fact I probably don't mention to you often enough. The home ownership rate is down because of strained affordability, so you may very well have a long term tenant in these properties, and then you layer on the fact that they're new build, and it really looks promising for tenants wanting to stay for the long term. Check out the market and the provider. Learn more at either gre marketplace.com/oklahomcity or slash Tulsa. Yes, new build Oklahoma properties, if you're not sure about the exact address, that's going to provide you with the highest returns, our free investment coaching can help you with that as well borrow dollars with long term fixed interest rate debt that both tenants and inflation just relentlessly pay down for you while your expected price appreciation. Can leverage dollars at the same time. Start at gre marketplace.com/oklahoma, city or slash Tulsa until next week. I'm Keith Weinhold. Don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  44:52   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional. Additional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  45:16   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, Oh, geez. Today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind. Take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

Linda Hogan is an American poet, writer, academic, environmentalist and member of the Chickasaw Nation. Intimately connected to her political and spiritual concerns, Hogan's poetry deals with issues such as the environment and eco-feminism, the relocation of Native Americans, and historical narratives, including oral histories. In this episode of Nature Revisited, Linda recites some of her poems and talks about being raised as part of the Chickasaw community, her discovery and pursuit of contemporary poetry, and how the power of words can express and reconnect us with the wonders of nature. [Originally published Nov 28, 2023. Ep 109] Linda's website: https://www.lindahoganwriter.com/ Listen to Nature Revisited on your favorite podcast apps or at https://noordenproductions.com Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/bdz4s9d7 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/5n7yx28t Subscribe on Youtube Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bddd55v9 Podlink: https://pod.link/1456657951 Support Nature Revisited https://noordenproductions.com/support Nature Revisited is produced by Stefan van Norden and Charles Geoghegan. We welcome your comments, questions and suggestions - contact us at https://noordenproductions.com/contact

Part 2 In Honor of Memorial Day: This series is dedicated to our Native American veterans—our warriors—who have served with honor, courage, and an unshakable commitment to protect this land and its people. With Father's Day around the corner: We also honor our fathers and our future warriors - our young men. Long before Choctaws were farmers and business people, they were WARRIORS. Here to talk about this subject is Choctaw Nation's Historic Preservation Department's Ryan Spring. In this episode you'll hear stories of strength: The Choctaw and the Path of the Warrior - The role of the bison: a short look at its presence in Choctaw homelands - Were bison native to our lands — and how did we interact with them? - What did it take to become a Chief? - Preparing for battle: war paint, feathers, and red dye - The meaning behind warrior tattoos — marks of honor and identity - Allies and enemies: tribes we stood with and those we stood against - The Choctaw and Chickasaw conflict — why did two sister nations clash?

Today's featured poet is Ibe Liebenberg (0:03:51) who joins Ann Wallace to talk about his new collection, Birds at Night, published in 2025 by Texas Tech University Press. Ibe is a member of the Chickasaw nation, as well as a firefighter from Paradise, California. With wildfires causing increasing destruction across the nation in recent years, we have wanted to speak with a firefighter on The WildStory—and this conversation with Ibe does not disappoint. It is a reflective one, highlighting the intertwining threads—of land, migration, and ancestry, of family and memory, of fire, loss and healing—contained within his poetry. Spring is here, and in this month's segment of "Ask Randi," Randi Eckel (0:31:47), owner of Toadshade Wildflower Farm encourages listeners to take a gentle approach when tidying up their gardens this season. She explains that because insects and other wildlife rely on leaf litter, stems, and decaying wood throughout the year, plant debris is essential for the survival of many creatures. Next, Kim Correro is joined by guest host Susan Landau, one of the people behind the Foote's Pond Wood Park restoration project in Morristown, New Jersey. Susan has also been instrumental in creating the "Going Native" planting guide for Northern New Jersey, and she collaborates each year on the popular Great Swamp Watershed Native Plant Sale, which is open online through April 18th. More information can be found at greatswamp.org. Together, Kim and Susan interview William Cullina (0:41:10), the F. Otto Haas Executive Director of the Morris Arboretum & Gardens at the University of Pennsylvania. Cullina is a well-known author and recognized authority on North American native plants. During their conversation, he shares his long-term goals for the Morris Arboretum and discusses his research in tree genetics and soil microbiology, as well as an exciting new exhibition titled "Bees, Butterflies, and Blooms: A Pollinator Paradise," which will run this year from May 23 to September 30. In the final segment, Kim and Ann speak with award-winning author and designer Kelly D. Norris (1:08:39), one of the leading ecological horticulturists of his generation. Kelly's new book, Your Natural Garden, is a page-by-page guide through the seasons of a naturalistic garden's life, and the tasks that come with each stage. Kelly explores the connections between people, plants, and place through ecological, site-specific design and art. He talks with Kim and me about the history of natural places, the value of abundance—in life and in planting—and the importance of becoming familiar, beyond the limited information contained on labels, with the plants we have in our gardens and parks. Follow The Wildstory on Instagram at Thewildstory_podcast

Tribal and state public health efforts in New Mexico are credited with cutting the Native American suicide rate in that state by 43% over a year's time. It's even more notable in that the percent reduction is more than five times that of the rest of the population. There are still troubling statistics, including a study that shows Native American young people at most risk. We'll hear from suicide prevention experts about where problems persist and what is being done to offset them. GUESTS Shelby Rowe (Chickasaw), executive director of the Suicide Prevention Resource Center Dr. Deidre Yellowhair (Diné), research assistant professor in the division of community behavioral health for the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at the University of New Mexico Lynette Hepa (Iñupiaq), director of the department of health and social services for the North Slope Borough Amanda WhiteCrane (Northern Cheyenne), director of the Native & Strong Lifeline with the Volunteers of America Western Washington

Iowa is testing new legal limits as the first state to remove gender identity as a protected class in the state's civil rights code. The Trump administration is also removing transgender service personnel from the military. And the State Department is using existing law against fraud to bar foreign transgender athletes from entering the country, something critics worry could be used to ban any trans traveler. After years of progress, Native American trans residents are facing a major rollback of favorable laws and policies. We'll hear about the current public climate and what might be in store for the future. GUESTS Shelby Chestnut (Assiniboine), executive director of the Transgender Law Center Stephanie Byers (Chickasaw), former Kansas state representative Vernon Gonzales (Houma), trans advocate Shuína Skó (Klamath Tribes), Two-Spirit poet, author, & cultural consultant

Iowa is testing new legal limits as the first state to remove gender identity as a protected class in the state's civil rights code. The Trump administration is also removing transgender service personnel from the military. And the State Department is using existing law against fraud to bar foreign transgender athletes from entering the country, something critics worry could be used to ban any trans traveler. After years of progress, Native American trans residents are facing a major rollback of favorable laws and policies. We'll hear about the current public climate and what might be in store for the future. GUESTS Shelby Chestnut (Assiniboine), executive director of the Transgender Law Center Stephanie Byers (Chickasaw), former Kansas state representative Vernon Gonzales (Houma), trans advocate Shuína Skó (Klamath Tribes), Two-Spirit poet, author, & cultural consultant

On this week's episode, Imprint Indigenous Children and Families Reporter Nancy Marie Spears hosts a special roundtable discussion on the future of Indigenous child welfare. Our panel of guests break down how they will engage with a new 25-year plan to reform and improve Indigenous child welfare policy and practice through improved implementation of, and compliance with, the 1978 Indian Child Welfare Act, or ICWA.. ICWA 2050 was launched November 7 by the Protect ICWA Campaign to Honor ICWA's 46th Anniversary and it's called Protect, Preserve, Progress: Realizing the Spirit of the Indian Child Welfare Act. There are four key goals of this long-term plan, and the panelists talk about how their respective communities intend on engaging with each area of proposed change.Guest panel:Sarah Kastelic, (Alutiiq), is the executive director of the National Indian Child Welfare Association.Te'Ata Loper, (Chickasaw), is the executive director of the Oklahoma Indian Child Welfare Association.Kimberly Cluff is legal director of the California Tribal Families Coalition.Linda S. Spears is president and CEO of the Child Welfare League of America.Reading RoomProtecting Children and Healing Families, One Native Auntie at a Timehttps://imprintnews.org/foster-care/protecting-children-and-healing-families-one-native-auntie-at-a-time/241572The Way Forward: Report of the Alyce Spotted Bear & Walter Soboleff Commission on Native Children https://udallcenter.arizona.edu/sites/default/files/2024-07/TheWayForward.pdfIndian Child Welfare Act Think Tank to Strategize Legal Protections for Tribal Sovereigntyhttps://imprintnews.org/top-stories/indian-child-welfare-act-think-tank-to-strategize-legal-protections-for-tribal-sovereignty/239084New Online Resources Available to Assist With Indian Child Welfare Caseshttps://imprintnews.org/indigenous-youth-and-families/new-online-resources-available-to-assist-with-indian-child-welfare-cases/255684

The Clarke County girls clinched the 2A Area 1 regular-season title with three double-digit wins last week. The Bulldogs (14-5, 5-0) will host the area tournament the first week of February as the No. 1 seed. Clarke County drubbed Class 3A Sumter Central 49-26 and area foes Washington County 50-27 and Chickasaw 57-32. CCHS 49,Sumter Central 26 A strong second half helped the Bulldogs pull away in Grove Hill on Jan. 13. Jayla Horn scored 11 of her 19 points in the third period to give CCHS a double-digit lead. CCHS 50,WCHS 27 The Bulldogs overcame a slow start in...Article Link

Clarke County pushed its winning streak to seven games with a trio of victories last week. The Bulldogs (11-5, 5-0 2A Area 1) took two more steps toward an area title with wins over Washington County (54-46) and Chickasaw (64- 59). CCHS also upended Class 3A Sumter Central 84-74. Clarke County can clinch the regular-season area title with a win in either of its two upcoming league games against Bayshore Christian and St. Luke's. CCHS 84, Sumter Central 74 TaMyus Pugh scored 25 points and Justavian Crayton 24 to lead the Bulldogs to a season-high point total in Grove Hill...Article Link

As most of you know, our Patreon audience has the INSIDE access to the KF Show. The year 2025 will be an important one for Patreon specifically and if you'd consider jumping up to the $5 level it would sure help. The $10 level will remain and we now have a brand new $20 level as well! All members who join at that level will receive a sticker swag pack in the mail, you'll be IMMEDIATELY entered in the monthly prize grab, and you'll receive a phone call from one (or all) of us to chat up whatever you want for 30 minutes! Thank you SO MUCH to those of you who have joined in for the extra content that is only for Patreon supporters. To get in on the action and support the show with a minor financial contribution just click the link below to sign up. Join up via Patreon at patreon.com/KFSHOW ======================================== Presented with Holley - Back for 2025!  Phase 3 of Kibbe and Friends is officially here, and Holley is back for more fun, foolishness, and flying orange Chargers! Once again we're proud to be associated with the historic name that has made cars fast for years and years, and their innovations continue forward (as always)! Make sure that you visit Holley.com to place your speed parts orders - and THANK THEM for continuing on as the Title Sponsor of the KF Show! Their Ford Small Block Giveaway is running now through February 1, 2025. Visit here to enter: https://www.holley.com/win/fordsmallblockgiveaway ======================================== K&F Show Summary: Every four years in the United States we swear in a Presidential administration and this year is no different. Donald Trump has become just the second person in U.S. history to serve in non-consecutive terms. We dug into that and other fun-filled Wikipedia facts about Presidential stuff. Also covered: Bernie on the News, January Celebrity Automotive Birthdays, and a review of the second episode of Tim Allen's new ABC car-themed sitcom: Shifting Gears.  Dukes of Hazzard Episode Review: This episode has everything. Small pushbar Generals, egregious use of the concept of amnesia, Voice impersonation as good - or better than - AI, and a clearly directed passenger side entry of the General by Daisy that doesn't seem helpful in any way…..other than for where the camera was placed if you get by gist. Bo gets amnesia by hitting his head on a rock. In turn Boss convinces him that he is his loving father, and that be needs Bo to be a good son and drive a load of moonshine through Chickasaw county. What's unbeknownst to Bo but knownst to us that Sheriff Little is there waiting for him….because he hates moonshiners.  This is a fun episode where there's no point, there's no lesson, and there's no dramatic acting - in any way; it's just just pure automotive escapism. K&F Rating: 9 Corndogs Legit Episode Info: Season 3, Episode 14 “My Son, Bo Hogg” Written by Si Rose Directed by Rod Amateau Original Airdate: 1/30/1981  ======================================== Welcome to the High Performance Expo! We are pleased to announce that the all new High Performance Expo has joined us to share their inaugural event, the exclusive business and enthusiast show of the North Carolina Motorsports Association (NCMA), will be held from June 3-5, 2025, at the Charlotte Convention Center, followed by area-wide enthusiast activities. The event will bring together all segments of the racing, aftermarket, restoration, and performance community for the first time in the heart of the auto racing industry. We'll be bringing you more details until the show starts! Visit https://thehpx.com for details.   ======================================== National Parts Depot Presents: Bernie on the News! https://www.npdlink.com. The post K&F Show #319: Inauguration Day 2025 – Classic Dukes Review: S3E14 “My Son Bo Hogg” first appeared on The Muscle Car Place.

Neal McCaleb is a member of the Chickasaw Nation and a former George W. Bush administration official. Before his involvement in politics, McCaleb was a civil engineer and businessman. He served on the Oklahoma Indian Affairs Commission from 1967 until 1972 when President Nixon appointed him to the National Council on Indian Opportunities. He was also a member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives from 1974 to 1982, and later was a presidential appointee on Ronald Reagan's Commission on Indian Reservation Economics in the 1980s. McCaleb ran for Governor of Oklahoma in 1982 but lost the Republican primary. He was appointed Oklahoma's first Secretary of Transportation by 1987, and from 1995 to 2001 he was the Director of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation and Director of the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority. In 2001, George Bush appointed McCaleb to be the Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs. After serving in the Bush administration, McNeal served as Ambassador at Large for the Chickasaw Nation.

Stacie Shannon Denetsosie's life on the Navajo Nation is the inspiration for many of her imaginative stories in the collection, The Missing Morningstar And Other Stories. published this year. Ojibwe writer Marcie Rendon's illustrated children's book, Stitches of Tradition (Gashkigwaaso Tradition), measures time and culture through the ribbon skirts a grandmother makes through the years. And Danica Nava's romance novel, The Truth According to Ember, has readers rooting for its Chickasaw protagonist to get the guy. Those are among the books that our expert readers will review in our look back on notable works by Indigenous authors. GUESTS Andrea L. Rogers (Cherokee), author, undergraduate professor at the Institute of American Indian Arts, and a PhD student at the University of Arkansas Calvin Crosby (Cherokee), owner of King's English Bookshop and executive director of Brain Food Books

Snow is on the ground and that means it's story time. Storytelling is an art. But it is also the primary method for so many tribes to convey history, cultural lessons and spiritual guidance. The Diné story about the coyote and the lizard warns listeners to be wary of who they trust. A Chickasaw story explains how two brothers split up on their journey, becoming the Chickasaw and Choctaw tribes. We'll hear those and some other selected stores by experienced Native storytellers. GUESTS Ogimaawab aka Joseph Sutherland (Nishnawbe Aski First Nation), Ojibwe language and culture educator Sunny Dooley (Diné), blessing way Hané teller Dancing Star aka Donna Courtney (Chickasaw Nation), Chickasaw Nation Storytelling program manager Gene Tagaban (Tlingit, Cherokee, and Filipino), storyteller, performing artist, and wellness and health trainer

Thanksgiving, as traditionally celebrated, has long been steeped in myths that obscure its more complex historical roots. The commonly shared narrative often centers on harmony between Pilgrims and Native Americans during a shared feast in 1621. However, this oversimplifies, and in many ways distorts, the darker truths of colonization, displacement, and systemic violence against Indigenous peoples that followed European settlement. For Indigenous communities, Thanksgiving can symbolize the beginning of land theft, cultural erasure, and genocide.The connections between African Americans, the transatlantic slave trade, and the Five Tribes (often referred to as the Five “Civilized” Tribes: Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole) is another complex and under-taught history. Some of these tribes participated in the enslavement of African people, often adopting the practice after pressure from European settlers to assimilate into Western customs. At the same time, there were alliances between African Americans and Indigenous communities, such as through intermarriage, shared resistance to oppression, and the escape of enslaved individuals to Native lands. This layered history reveals both solidarity and complicity, illustrating the complexity of relationships between oppressed groups during colonization and slavery.As for 2024 and the “truth being told,” societal awareness and education about these histories are growing, thanks to the advocacy of Indigenous peoples, African Americans, historians, and educators. Efforts to incorporate these truths into mainstream education, media, and conversations are increasing. However, resistance to these narratives—due to political, cultural, or ideological reasons—remains strong in certain sectors of society.The shift toward truth-telling depends on continued advocacy, open dialogue, and systemic changes in education. If this momentum continues, 2024 could see more progress, though full acknowledgment and widespread acceptance of these truths may still be a work in progress.

Before their relocation along the Trail of Tears, southeast tribes found a need to curb cattle rustling and other violations of tribal laws. The Five Tribes organized tribal law enforcement units that came to be known as Lighthorse. They would respond to crimes such as stagecoach robberies, bootlegging, murder, and land disputes. For several years, the Lighthorse acted as judge, jury, even executioner. The Cherokee Lighthorsemen have their origins in Georgia, but were official formed in November 1844. The tribes continue to use the term “Lighthorse” to refer to their community policing units. We'll hear about the history of “Lighthorse” and how they paved the way for tribal law enforcement. GUESTS Scott Ketchum (Choctaw Nation), Chickasaw Nation Endowed Chair in Native American Studies for East Central University Julie Reed (Cherokee Nation), associate professor in history at Penn State University Michelle Cooke (Chickasaw Nation), senior staff writer for the Chickasaw Press and author of Protecting Our People: Chickasaw Law Enforcement in Indian Territory

Siena East—a Choctaw writer, comedian, and actor—performs this romance novel from debut Chickasaw author Danica Nava. Host Jo Reed and AudioFile's Kendra Winchester discuss the author's delightful storytelling and narrator's ear for dialogue, making for an all-around enjoyable listen. After sending out countless job applications with few responses, Ember Lee Cardinal decides to exaggerate her work experience on her next application. She lands the job and meets her new co-worker, Danuwoa Colson, the only other Native person at her new office and the most handsome man she's ever seen. East's strong comedic timing enhances Ember and Danuwoa's witty banter, and she captures their whirlwind workplace romance. Read our review of the audiobook at our website. Published by Penguin Audio. Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website. Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus, and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Max Lucado, Kathie Lee Gifford, Bob Goff, Lysa TerKeurst, and many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An interim study at the State Capitol focuses on cell phones in schools.The new season of Thunder basketball starts tonight.A new opera in the Chickasaw language premieres this month. You can find the KOSU Daily wherever you get your podcasts, you can also subscribe, rate us and leave a comment.You can keep up to date on all the latest news throughout the day at KOSU.org and make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at KOSU Radio.This is The KOSU Daily, Oklahoma news, every weekday.

When God saved Larry - he didn't want to continue living the way that he used to. He wanted to live his life fully for One who loved Him and rescued him from sin. Considering what Jesus did for Him on the cross, it only made sense.

Today, we're talking with veteran activist and theologian, the one and only, Lisa Sharon Harper! The conversation covers:-        Lisa's journey finding Jesus outside of Whiteness and White evangelicalism-        The centrality of advocating for political and institutional policy change to our faith in Jesus-        How respecting the image of God in all people is the starting point for following Jesus to shalom-        The unavoidable job we have to speak truth, even when it is costly-        Where Lisa finds her hope and motivation to keep going-        And after that, we reflect on the interview and then talk all things Springfield, Ohio and Haitian immigrants.Mentioned on the episode:-            Lisa's website, lisasharonharper.com/-            Lisa's Instagram and Facebook-            The Freedom Road Podcast-            Lisa's books, Fortune and The Very Good Gospel-            Make a donation to The Haitian Community Support and Help Center in Springfield, Ohio via PayPal at haitianhelpcenterspringfield@gmail.com.Credits-            Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Editing by Multitude Productions-        Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes in a major scale, the first three ascending and the last three descending, with a keyboard pad playing the tonic in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Lisa Sharon Harper: I would lose my integrity if I was silent in the face of the breaking of shalom, which I learned in Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia, is built on earth through structures. It doesn't just come because people know Jesus. Two thirds of the people in the Bosnian war knew Jesus. The Croats were Christian and the Serbs were Orthodox Christian, and yet they killed each other. Massacred each other. Unfortunately, knowing Jesus is not enough if you have shaped your understanding of Jesus according to the rules and norms of empire.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. I'm Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I am Sy Hoekstra. We have a great one for you today. We are talking to veteran organizer and theologian Lisa Sharon Harper, someone who a lot of you probably know and who was pretty big in both of our individual kind of stories and development as people who care about faith and justice when we were younger people, which you will hear about as we talk to her. We are going to be talking to her about the centrality of our voting and policy choices to our witness as Christians, the importance of integrity and respecting the image of God in all people when making difficult decisions about where to spend your resources as an activist, where Lisa gets her hope and motivation and a whole lot more.And then after the interview, hear our reactions to it. And we're also going to be getting into our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, where we dive a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our weekly newsletter that we send out to our subscribers. This week it will be all about Haitian immigrants to America in Springfield, Ohio. You will want to hear that conversation. But before we get started, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Please friends, remember to go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber to support this show and get access to everything that we do. We're creating media that centers personal and informed discussions on politics, faith and culture that helps you seek Jesus and confront injustice. We are resisting the idols of the American church by centering and elevating marginalized voices and taking the entirety of Jesus' gospel more seriously than those who narrow it to sin and salvation. The two of us have a lot of experience doing this individually and in community, and we've been friends [laughs] for a good long time. So you can trust it will be honest, sincere, and have some good things to say along the way.If you become a paid subscriber, you'll get access to all of our bonus content, access to our monthly subscriber Zoom chats with me and Sy, and the ability to comment on posts and chat with us. So again, please go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber today.Sy Hoekstra: Our guest today, again, Lisa Sharon Harper, the president and founder of Freedom Road, a groundbreaking consulting group that crafts experiences to bring common understanding and common commitments that lead to common action toward a more just world. Lisa is a public theologian whose writing, speaking, activism and training has sparked and fed the fires of reformation in the church from Ferguson and Charlottesville to South Africa, Brazil, Australia and Ireland. Lisa's book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World, and How to Repair It All was named one of the best books of 2022 and the book before that, The Very Good Gospel, was named 2016 Book of the Year by The Englewood Review of Books. Lisa is the host of the Freedom Road Podcast, and she also writes for her Substack, The Truth Is…Jonathan Walton: Alright, let's jump into the interview.[The intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Lisa Sharon Harper, thank you so much for joining us on Shake the Dust.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yay, I'm so excited to be here, and I'm here with a little bit of a Demi Moore rasp to my voice. So I'm hoping it'll be pleasant to the ears for folks who are coming, because I got a little sick, but I'm not like really sick, because I'm on my way, I'm on the rebound.Sy Hoekstra: So you told us you got this at the DNC, is that right?Lisa Sharon Harper: Yes, I literally, literally, that's like what, almost three weeks ago now?Sy Hoekstra: Oh my gosh.Jonathan Walton: You've got a DNC infection. That's what that is.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Lisa Sharon Harper: I have a DNC cough. I have a DNC cough, that's funny.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So before we jump into our questions, I wanted to take a momentary trip down memory lane, because I have no idea if you remember this or not.Lisa Sharon Harper: Okay.Sy Hoekstra: But in January of 2008, you led a weekend retreat for a college Christian fellowship that Jonathan and I were both in.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, I do remember.Sy Hoekstra: You do remember this? Okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: Absolutely.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Lisa Sharon Harper: I remember almost every time I've ever spoken anywhere.Sy Hoekstra: Wow, okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: I really do. And I remember that one, and I do remember you guys being there. Oh my gosh, that's so cool.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Okay.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: You remember that. That's amazing.Sy Hoekstra: No, no, no.Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Hang on. Wait a minute [laughter]. We don't just remember it. Because, so you gave this series of talks that ended up being a big part of your book, The Very Good Gospel.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And you talked specifically about the difference between genuine and pseudo-community and the need to really address each other's problems that we face, bear each other's burdens, that sort of thing. And you did a session, which I'm sure you've done with other groups, where you split us up into racial groups. So we sat there with White, Black, and Latine, and Asian, and biracial groups, and we had a real discussion about race in a way that the community had absolutely never had before [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: And it actually, it is the opening scene of Jonathan's book. I don't know if you knew that.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my God, I didn't know that.Jonathan Walton: It is.Lisa Sharon Harper: Which one?Jonathan Walton: Twelve Lies.Lisa Sharon Harper: Wow, I didn't know that. Oh my gosh, I missed that. Okay.Sy Hoekstra: So it was a… Jonathan put it before, it was a formative moment for everybody and a transformative moment for some of us [laughter] …Lisa Sharon Harper: Oooooo, Oh my goodness.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: …in that we learned a lot about ourselves and what we thought about race, what other people thought about race. I will tell you that in the five minutes after the session broke up, like ended, it was the first time that my now wife ever said to me, “Hey, you said something racist to me that I didn't like.” [laughs] And then, because of all the conversation we just had, I responded miraculously with the words, “I'm sorry.” [laughter].Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my God!Sy Hoekstra: And then we went from there.Lisa Sharon Harper: Miraculously [laughs]. That's funny.Sy Hoekstra: So I have lots of friends that we can talk about this session with to this day, and they still remember it as transformative.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my Gosh. Wow.Sy Hoekstra: All of that, just to lead into my first question which is this, a lot of people in 2016 started seeing kind of the things about White evangelicalism that indicated to them that they needed to get out. They needed to escape in some way, because of the bad fruit, the bad political fruit that was manifesting. You saw that bad fruit a long time ago.Lisa Sharon Harper: A whole long time ago.Sy Hoekstra: You were deep in the Republican, pro-life political movement for a little bit, for like, a minute as a young woman.Lisa Sharon Harper: I wouldn't… here's the thing. I wouldn't say I was deep in. What I would say is I was in.Sy Hoekstra: Okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: As in I was in because I was Evangelical, and I identified with itbecause I was Evangelical and because my friends identified with it. So I kind of went along, but I always had this sense I was like standing on the margins looking at it going, “I don't know.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: You know what I mean? But I would say literally for like a minute, I was a believer. Maybe for like, a year.Sy Hoekstra: But my question then is, what were the warning signs? And then, separately from what were the warning signs that you needed to get out, who or what were the guiding lights that showed you a better way?Lisa Sharon Harper: My goodness. Wow. Well, I mean, I would say that honestly… Okay, so I had a couple of conversations, and we're talking about 2004 now. So 2004 also, this is right after 2000 where we had the hanging chads in Florida.Sy Hoekstra: Yep.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Lisa Sharon Harper: And we know how important voting is, because literally, I mean, I actually believe to this day that Gore actually won. And it's not just a belief, they actually counted after the fact, and found that he had won hundreds more ballots that were not counted in the actual election, in Florida. And so every single vote counts. Every single vote counts. So then in 2004 and by 2004, I'm the Director of Racial Reconciliation for greater LA in InterVarsity, I had done a summer mission project that wasn't really mission. It was actually more of a, it was a pilgrimage, actually. It was called the pilgrimage for reconciliation. The summer before, I had done the stateside pilgrimage. And then that summer, I led students on a pilgrimage through Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia asking the question, “How is shalom broken? And how is shalom built? How is it made?”And through both of those successive summer experiences, it became so clear to me, policy matters, and it matters with regard to Christian ethics. We can't say we are Christian and be, in other words, Christ-like if we are not concerned with how our neighbor is faring under the policies coming down from our government. We just can't. And as Christians in a democracy, specifically in America, in the US where we have a democracy, we actually have the expectation that as citizens, we will help shape the way that we live together. And our vote is what does that our vote when we vote for particular people, we're not just voting for who we like. We're voting for the policies they will pass or block. We're voting for the way we want to live together in the world.So in 2004 when I come back from Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, I'm talking with some of my fellow staff workers, and I'm saying to them, “We have to have a conversation with our folks about voting. I mean, this election really matters. It's important. ”Because we had just come through the first few years of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like Iraq had just erupted a couple years before that, Afghanistan the year before that. And we were seeing young men coming back in body bags and this war, which had no plan to end, was sending especially young Black men to die because they were the ones…and I know, because I was in those schools when I was younger, and I alsohad been reading up on this.They're the ones who are recruited by the Marines and the Army and the Navy and the Air Force, especially the army, which is the cannon fodder. They're the ones who are on the front lines. They are recruited by them more than anybody else, at a higher degree than anybody else, a higher percentage ratio. So I was saying we have to have a conversation. And their response to me in 2004 was, “Oh, well, we can't do that, because we can't be political.” I said, “Well, wait, we are political beings. We live in a democracy.” To be a citizen is to help shape the way we live together in the world, and that's all politics is. It's the conversations we have and the decisions that we make about how we are going to live together.And so if we as Christians who have an ethic passed down by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, and we have the 10 Commandments, which is like the grand ethic of humanity, at least of the Abrahamic tradition. Then, if we don't have something to say about how we should be living together and the decisions we make about that every four years, every two years, even in off year elections, then what are we doing here?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: Who are we? Like, what is this faith? What is this Christian faith? So that was my first real rub, because I had experienced the pilgrimage to reconciliation. I had seen, I had rolled through. I had walked on the land where the decisions that the polis, the people had made, had killed people. It had led to the death of millions of people. Thousands of people in some case. Hundreds of people in other cases. But when coming back from Bosnia, it was millions. And so I was just very much aware of the reality that for Christians, politics matters because politics is simply the public exercise of our ethics, of our Christian ethic. And if we don't have one, then we're… honest, I just, I think that we are actually turning our backs on Jesus who spent his life telling us how to live.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And so that was, for me, literally that conversation with that staff worker was kind of my first, “Aha! I'm in the wrong place.” I needed to learn more about how this public work works. How do systems and structures and policies and laws work? So that's what actually brought me, ended up bringing me a year later, to Columbia University and getting my master's in human rights. And I knew, having had the background in the two pilgrimages and the work that we did on the biblical concept of shalom at the time, which was nascent. I mean, it was for me, it was, I barely, really barely, understood it. I just knew it wasn't what I had been taught. So I started digging into shalom at that time, and then learning about international law and human rights and how that works within the international systems.I came out of that with a much clearer view, and then continued to work for the next 13 years to really get at how our Christian ethics intersect with and can help, and have helped shape public policy. And that has led me to understand very clearly that we are complicit in the evil, and we also, as Christians, other streams of our faith are responsible for the redemption, particularly in America and South Africa and other places in the world.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So I think I'm placing myself in your story. So I think we intersected in that 2005, 2008 moment. So I've traveled with you.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, we had a good time. It was so much fun.Jonathan Walton: We did. It was very good. So getting to follow, watch, learn, just for me, has been a huge blessing. First with the book, with New York Faith and Justice, reading stuff with Sojourners, grabbing your books, gleaning different wisdom things for… it's something that I've wondered as I'm a little bit younger in the journey, like as you've operated in this world, in the White Evangelical world, and then still White Evangelical adjacent, operating in these faith spaces. And now with the platform that you have, you've had to exercise a lot of wisdom, a lot of patience and deciding to manage where you show up and when, how you use your time, how you manage these relationships and keep relationships along the way. Because you didn't drop people.Lisa Sharon Harper: I have. I have dropped a few [laughter]. I want to make that really clear, there is an appropriate space to literally shake the dust.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Jonathan Walton: I think what I have not seen you do is dehumanize the people in the places that you left.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, thank you. Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And that's hard to do, because most people, particularly my generation, we see the bridge we just walked across, and we throw Molotov cocktails at that thing [laughter].Lisa Sharon Harper: Y'all do. Your generation is like, “I'm out! And you're never gonna breathe again!” Like, “You're going down!” I'm like, “Oh my God…” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It's quite strong with us [laughs]. And so could you give any pieces of wisdom or things you've learned from God about navigating in that way. Things that we can and folks that are listening can hold on to as things shift, because they will shift and are shifting.Lisa Sharon Harper: They always shift, yeah, because we are not living on a book page. We're living in a world that moves and is fluid, and people change, and all the things. So I think that the best advice that I got, I actually got from Miroslav Volf. Dr. Miroslav Volf, who is a professor at Yale University, and he wrote the book that really kind of got me into, it was my first book that I ever read that was a book of theology, Exclusion&Embrace. And when we went to Croatia, we met with him. We met with him in the city of Zadar on the beach [laughs], literally over lunch. It was just an incredible privilege to sit down with him. And I've had many opportunities to connect with him since, which has been a privilege again, and just a joy.But he said to our group, our little InterVarsity group. And that's not at all to minimize InterVarsity, but we had a real inflated sense of who we were in the world. We thought we were everything, and we thought we were right about everything. And so here we are going through Croatia, which had just experienced a decade and a little bit before, this civil war. And it wasn't really a civil war, it was actually a war of aggression from Serbia into Croatia, and it was horrible. And it turned neighbor against neighbor in the same way that our civil war turned neighbor against neighbor. So literally, these towns, you literally had neighbors killing each other, you just were not safe.So basically, think Rwanda. The same thing that happened in Rwanda, around the same time had happened in Croatia. And so Miroslav is Croatian, and the lines by which things were drawn in Croatia was not race, because everybody was White. So the lines that they drew their hierarchy on was along the lines of religion. It was the Croats, which were mostly Catholic, mostly Christian. Some not Catholic, they might have been Evangelical, but they were Christian. And then you had the Bosniaks, which were Muslim, and the Serbs, which were Orthodox. So that was the hierarchy. And when you had Milošević, who was the president of Yugoslavia, who was trying to keep that Federation together, Yugoslavia was like an amalgamation of what we now understand to be Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia.So he was trying to keep all of that together, and when he then crossed the lines, the boundary between Serbia and Croatia and invaded and just began to kill everybody, and the Serbs then went to his side, and the Croats went over here, and the Bosniaks were caught in the middle, and people just died. And they chose sides and they killed each other. And so we sat down to do lunch with Miroslav Volf, and in that context, interfaith conversation was critical. It was and is, it continues to be. One of the main markers of where you find healing, it's where you find interfaith conversation in Croatia and also Bosnia and Serbia. And so we, in our little Evangelical selves, we're not used to this interfaith thing.We think of that as compromising. We think of that as, “How can you talk to people and gain relationship with and actually sit down and…?” And he was challenging us to study this scripture with other people of other faiths, and study their scriptures. He was like, “Do that.” And so our people were like, “How can you do that and not compromise your faith?” And here's what he said. He said, “It's easy. Respect. It's respect, respecting the image of God in the other, the one who is not like me. That I, when I sit down and I read their scriptures with them, allowing them to tell me what their scriptures mean.” Not sitting in a classroom in my Evangelical church to learn what the Muslim scriptures say, but sitting down with Imams to understand what the Muslim scriptures say and how it's understood within the context of that culture.That's called respect for the image of God. And there's no way, no way for us to knit ourselves together in a society, to live together in the world without respect. That's baseline. That's baseline.Jonathan Walton: As I'm listening, I'm thinking, “Okay, Lisa made choices.” She was like, “We are gonna not just do a trip. We're gonna do a trip in Croatia.” And so as you're going on these trips, as you were having these conversations, you're making choices. There's decisions being made around you, and then you get to the decision making seat. And how that discernment around where to place your energy happens. So something that's at the top of mind for me and many people listening is Palestine.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh, yeah.Jonathan Walton: So how did you decide at this moment that, “Hey,this is where my energy and time is coming. I'm going to Christ at the Checkpoint. I'm going to talk with Munther. I'm going to be there.”How did that rise to the surface for you?Lisa Sharon Harper: It's funny, because I have, really have been advised, and in the very first days of the conflict, I was advised by some African American leaders, “Don't touch this. Don't do it. You're going to be blacklisted.”Jonathan Walton: I heard the same thing, yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: “Don't do it. You're gonna find you're not invited to speak anywhere.” Da da da da. Sometimes these decisions are just made to say, “I am going to act in the world as if I don't know what the repercussions are, and I'm just going to do the thing, because my focus is not focused on the repercussions.” I mean, in some ways, in that way, I do think that my constitution is the constitution of a warrior. Warriors go to battle knowing that bullets are flying all around them, and they just choose to go forward anyway. Somebody who cared, and not just cared, but I think there's a moment where you begin to understand it's that moment of no turning back. It's the moment when you stand at the freshly buried graves of 5000 Muslim boys and men who were killed all in one day by bullet fire in Srebrenica.It's the moment that you drive through Bosnia and you see all of the graves everywhere. Everywhere, especially in Sarajevo, which experienced a siege, a multiyear siege by Serbia. And they turned the soccer field, which at one point was the focal point of the Sarajevo Olympic Games, they turned that into a graveyard because they ran out of space for the graves. When you roll through Georgia, and you go to Dahlonega, Georgia, and you go to the Mining Museum, which marks the very first gold rush in America, which was not in California, but was in Dahlonega, Georgia, on Cherokee land, and you hear the repercussions of people's silence and also complicity.When they came and they settled, they made a decision about how we should live together, and it did not include, it included the erasure of Cherokee people and Choctaw people and Chickasaw people, Seminole people, Creek people. And you walk that land, and the land tells you. It's so traumatic that the land still tells the story. The land itself tells the story. The land bears witness. When you stand on that land and the land tells you the story, there's a moment that just happens where there's no turning back and you have to bear witness to the truth, even with bullets flying around you. So with regard to Palestine, having done what now goodness, 20 years of research on this biblical concept called shalom, and written the book, The Very Good Gospel, which really lays it out in a systematic way.I would lose my integrity if I was silent in the face of the breaking of shalom, which I learned in Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia, is built on earth through structures. It doesn't just come because people know Jesus. Two thirds of the people in the Bosnian war knew Jesus. Two thirds. The Croats were Christian and the Serbs were Orthodox Christian, and yet they killed each other. I mean, massacred each other. Unfortunately, knowing Jesus is not enough if you have shaped your understanding of Jesus according to the rules and norms of empire. So we actually need international law. We need the instruments of international law. That's what stopped the war there. And they failed there too, but they also have been an intrinsic part of keeping the peace and also prosecuting Milošević. Solike making sure that some measure of justice on this earth happens, some shadow of it.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And what are we told in scripture in Micah 6:8, walk humbly with God. Do justice. Embrace the truth. So I think that when I saw on October 7, the breach of the wall, the breach of the gate and then the massacre at the festival, I grieved. I really grieved. And I was scared, really scared for the nation of Israel, for the people who were there. And I began to ask questions, because I've learned the discipline of not dehumanizing. Because to dehumanize is to break shalom. It's one of the first things that happens in the breaking of shalom and the eradication of it. And so part of what I had to do if I was going to consider Palestinian people human was to ask what has happened to them that would cause them to take such violent and radical action. How did we get here? Is the question.And the narrative that I heard from Israel, from the state of Israel, from the leaders of the state of Israel, which had been marched against by their own people just the week before that, and weeks for like a month or two before that, they were trying to depose the leadership of Israel because they were trying to turn their state into a fascist state. I was watching that as well. Trying to take the power of the judiciary away so that they could increase the power of the Prime Minister. So what does it mean then? What does it mean that this happened? And I was listening to the way that the narrative that Netanyahu was giving and his generals and the narrative they were giving is, “These are monsters. They are terrorists. They are evil. They are intrinsically, they are not human.”And I knew when I saw that, when I heard that, I thought Bosnia. I thought Rwanda, where they called the other cockroaches. I thought South Africa, where they called Black people not human, monsters, who need to be controlled. I thought Native Americans, who were called savages in order to be controlled, in order to have the justification of genocide. I thought of people of African descent who were brought in death ships across the Atlantic to South America and Central America and Mexico and North America in order to be used to build European wealth and they were called non-human. And even according to our own laws, our constitution declared three fifths of a human being.So when I heard Netanyahu and his generals dehumanizing the Palestinians, I knew, that for me was like the first signal, and it happened on the first day. It was the first signal that we are about to witness a genocide. They are preparing us. They are grooming us to participate in genocide. And I, as a theologian, as an ethicist, as a Christian, would lose my credibility if I remained silent and became complicit in that genocide through my silence. Because having studied the genocides that I mentioned earlier and the oppressions that I mentioned earlier, I know that most of those spaces were Christian spaces.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And they happened, those genocides and those oppressions were able to happen because Christians were silent.Jonathan Walton: Gathering all that up, I think… I mean, we've had Munther on this podcast, we've talked with him throughout the years. When he said, “The role of Christians is to be prophetic, to speak prophetic truth to power,” something clicked for me in that as you're talking about our witness being compromised, as you are saying, “Hey, let's ask this question, who does this benefit? What is happening?”Lisa Sharon Harper: That's right.Jonathan Walton: The reality that he said, “All of us are Nathan when it comes to empire. We are supposed to be the ones who say this is wrong.” And that resonates with what you said, like how can I have integrity and be silent? Genocide necessitates silence and complicity in that way from people.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah. And here's the thing. How are you gonna go to church and sing worship songs to Jesus on Sunday and be silent Monday through Saturday witnessing the slaying of the image of God on earth. You hear what I'm saying?Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Like my understanding of shalom now is not just we do these things in order to be nice and so we live together. It is that shalom is intricately connected with the flourishing of the kingdom of God.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Lisa Sharon Harper: It is the flourishing of the kingdom of God.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And the kingdom of God flourishes wherever the image of God flourishes. And the image of God is born by every single human being. And part of what it means to be made in the image of God is that humans who are made in the image of God exercise agency, stewardship of the world. And the most drastic example or practice of warfare against the image of God is war.Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs]. Absolutely.Lisa Sharon Harper: War annihilates the image of God on earth. It is a declaration of war, not only on Palestinians or Gazans or even Israel or the empire anywhere. It is a declaration of war against God. It is a declaration of war against God.Sy Hoekstra: A phrase that has stuck in my head about you was from one of the endorsements to your last book Fortune. Jemar Tisby described you as a long-distance runner for justice.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] That's awesome.Sy Hoekstra: That always struck me as accurate.Jonathan Walton: That is great.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Not a sprinter.Jonathan Walton: No.Sy Hoekstra: Not a sprinter.Lisa Sharon Harper: That was really pretty cool. I was like, “Oh Jemar, thank you.” [laughter]Jonathan Walton: I need that. We just in here. That's great [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So here's the question then, where does your hope and sustenance, how do you get that? Where does it come from?Lisa Sharon Harper: Honestly, it comes from focusing on the kingdom. Focusing on Jesus. Focusing on doing the kingdom of God. And when you do it you witness it. And when you witness it, you get hope. I mean, I've learned, even in the last year, an actual life lesson for me was hope comes in the doing. Hope comes in the doing. So as we do the kingdom, we gain hope. As we show up for the protests so that we confront the powers that are slaying the image of God on earth, we gain hope. As we speak out against it and form our words in ways that do battle with the thinking that lays the groundwork for ethics of erasure, we gain hope because we're doing it. We see the power.The kingdom of God exists wherever there are people who actually bow to the ethic of God. Who do it. Who do the ethic of God. You can't say you believe in Jesus and not actually do his ethic. You don't believe in him. What do you believe? He never said, “Believe stuff about me.” He said, “Follow me.” He literally never said, “Believe stuff about me.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Lisa Sharon Harper: He said, “Follow me. Do what I do. ”And that's ethics. That's the question of, how do we live together in the world?? So we do and we gain hope.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: I like that. That reminds me of Romans 5: There'll be glory in our suffering. Suffering produces perseverance, character, and character hope. It's like, it's not an intuitive thing necessarily, if you haven't done it before. But that's great, and that's a really, I like that a lot as a place for us to end [laughs]. To get out there and do it, and you will find the hope as you go.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: Can you tell us where people can find you or work that you would want people to see of yours?Lisa Sharon Harper: Absolutely. Well, hey, first of all, thank you guys so much for having me on, and it's been really a joy to start my day in conversation with you. Y'all can follow what I'm up to at Lisasharonharper.com. I live on Instagram, and so you can [laughter], you can definitely follow on Instagram and Facebook. And Freedom Road Podcast is a place where a lot of people have found the conversation and are tracking with it. And I'm always trying to have guests on that are pushing me and causing me to ask deeper questions. And so I really, I welcome you to join us on Freedom Road.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. I wholeheartedly second that.Lisa Sharon Harper: And of course, the books [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And of course, the books.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Fortune, Very Good Gospel, all the rest.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, exactly.Sy Hoekstra: Lisa Sharon Harper, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a delight.Jonathan Walton: Thank you so much.Lisa Sharon Harper: Thank you Sy. Thank you, Jonathan.[The intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Jonathan, that was a fantastic discussion. Tell me what you are thinking about coming out of it?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think one, is just it's just really helpful to talk with someone who's been around for a while. I think most of us… I'm 38 years old, but let's just say millennials and younger, we don't consume or receive a lot of long form content.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And we don't also engage with people who are willing and able to mentor us through difficult situations. We're getting sound bites from TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, and we don't get the whole of knowledge or experiences. So listening to Lisa talk about, “I grabbed this bit from L.A., I grabbed this bit from Palestine, I grabbed this bit from Croatia, I grabbed this bit.” We cannot microwave transformation. We cannot have instant growth. There is no, let me go through the side door of growing to maturity in my faithfulness and walk with Jesus.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: There is just doing it. And so when she said, “I find the hope in the doing,” you don't learn that unless you have done stuff. That's a big takeaway. I also appreciated just her take on the genocide in Palestine. And because she was mentored and has talked with Miroslav Volf, she knows what it smells like, because she's done the work in her own history of her own background. If you have not read Fortune, go read the book. The reason Black folks cannot find who we [laughs] come from is because they were enslaved and killed. The reason we cannot find the indigenous and native folks we were related to is because there was genocide. So there's these things.And she goes through that in her book, and to talk about how to wield our stories when we don't have one, or how to wield a story of tragedy to turn it into something transformative, is something I admire, appreciate and hope that I can embody if and when the time comes for myself, when I have collected and grown and have asked similar questions. I'm appreciative of what she had to say. And you know, I know I asked her the question about not burning things down, and so I appreciated that [laughs] answer as well. Like, there's just a lot of wisdom, and I hope that folks listening were able to glean as well.Sy Hoekstra: I totally agree with all that. I think all that was very powerful. And there isn't it… kind of reminds me of when her book we've mentioned a few times, The Very Good Gospel, came out. It came out in 2016, but like I said, when we were talking to her, the stuff that was in that book she had been thinking about for more than a decade at that point. And it was very clear. When I was reading it, I was like, “Oh, this is Lisa's bag—this is what she was talking to us about when we were in college in 2008.”Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: At that camp, but she'd been thinking about it for even longer than that. It was just like, you can tell when something isn't like, “Oh, I had to research this because I was gonna write a book about it, so I had to learn about it.” You know what I mean? You can tell when someone does that versus when someone's been soaking in a subject. It's like marinating in it for 12, 15, years, or whatever it was. She just has a lot of that stuff [laughs]. You know what? I just used the image of marinating and marinating and microwaving are very different things [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes, that is true.Sy Hoekstra: One takes a lot longer.Jonathan Walton: Put a steak in a microwave, see if you enjoy it [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, so I totally agree with all that. I came out of it thinking a lot about how the things that she said thematically kind of connected to some thoughts that I've had, but also just in terms of historical events. Because I told her this after the interview, when I moved to Switzerland in 2001 I was 13, my family moved over there. It was just at the end of the Yugoslavian Civil War, which was what she was talking about Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia. And Switzerland took in a ton of refugees from that war.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So my neighborhood, there was a big apartment complex. I mean, big for Swiss standards, kind of small honestly for American standards. But there's an apartment complex around the corner from my house that they had put a bunch of Bosnian refugees in. And their school was right down the road, the public school. And so my neighborhood in high school was like the kids playing around in the streets and in the playground or whatever were Bosnian refugees. And the combination of the three countries, Serbian, Croatia and Bosnia, used to be one big thing called Yugoslavia, right.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the first two syllables of the word Yugoslavia were in Switzerland, a slur for anyone who was from that country. And there was just a ton of bigotry toward them, basically because they displayed poverty [laughter]. Like they were one of the most visible groups of poor people in Zurich. And again, like Lisa said, this wasn't about racism. Everybody's White. But you're talking about like there were ethnic differences and there was class differences. And people dismissed them for their criminality, or for how the young men would get in fights in bars and on the streets or whatever, and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know how a lot of refugees from the Somalian war ended up in Minneapolis and St Paul, just like where a lot of them were placed in the US, and then a lot of them moved into North Dakota.It's like, a lot of… which is where my family's from. I've been there a lot. I hear a lot of people talking about the politics in that region. And you would hear similar stuff about them, except that it was about race. That it was, “Oh, we have crime now because we have Black people and we haven't before.” I mean, obviously Minneapolis, they did, but not really in the parts of North Dakota that my family's from. And so it was this lesson for me about the thing that Lisa was talking about, respect for the image of God in all people and how when you bring people who are somehow differentiable [laughter] from you, somebody who's from another grid, you can call them a different class, a different race, whatever, we will find any excuse to just say, “Oh, these are just bad people,” instead of taking responsibility for them, loving our neighbor, doing any of the stuff that we were commanded to do by Jesus, to the stranger, the foreigner, the immigrant in our midst.We will find whatever dividing lines we can to write people off. It can be race, it can be poverty, it can be, it doesn't matter. It's not what we should actually be saying about poverty or violence, or the fact that people are getting mugged or whatever. What we should be saying is we have a bunch of people who just got here from a war torn society. They were cut off from education and job skills and opportunities and all kinds of other things. And this is, when you just stick them in a society that treats them like garbage, this is what happens every single time, without fail. And so what we need to do is [laughter] be good neighbors.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Treat people well and forgive when people wrong us and that sort of thing. And we just will find any excuse in the world not to do that. And it's because we are not starting from that place that Miroslav Volf, who I love by the way, said to Lisa, is the place where you have to start everything when it comes to these kinds of conflicts, which is respect for the image of God in other people. The fact that they didn't do that in Yugoslavia led to slaughter en masse, but it still happens when you leave and you put yourself in a different context. There's still that lack of respect, and it's still harming people, even when there's quote- unquote, peace.Jonathan Walton: This opens up another can of worms. But I thought to myself…Sy Hoekstra: Go for it.Jonathan Walton: …it's much easier to say, “I just don't want to help,” than it is to say, “This person's evil,” or, “These people are bad.” Because I think at the core of it, someone says, “Is this your neighbor?” Jesus says, “Is this your neighbor?” And the Jewish leader of the day does not want to help the Samaritan, whatever the reasoning is. Right?Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: We're trying to justify our innate desire to not help our neighbor. As opposed to just dealing with the reality that many of us, when we see people who are broken and messed up, quote- unquote broken, quote- unquote messed up, quote- unquote on the opposite side of whatever power dynamic or oppressive structure that is set up or has just made, quote- unquote poor choices, some of us, our gut reaction is, I don't want to help them. And if we would just, I think just stop there, be like, “My first inclination is, I'm not interested in helping them.” And paused it there and reflected on why we don't want to do that internally, as opposed to turning towards them and making them the reason. Because they were just sitting there.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: The person on the street who's experiencing homelessness was just sitting there. The one in 10 students in New York City that is homeless is just sitting there. They're just there. And so if we were able to slow down for a second and say, “Why don't I want this person to live in my neighborhood, in my own stuff? Well, I don't like change. I'm afraid of this being different. I'm uncomfortable with different foods. I'm afraid of my favorite coffee shop or restaurant being taken away. I'm uncomfortable around people of different faiths. I feel weird when I don't hear my language being spoken.” If we were able to turn those reflections inward before we had uncomfortable feelings, turned them into actions, and then justified those actions with theology that has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus, then I wonder what would be different. But that that slowing down is really hard, because it's easier to feel the feeling, react, and then justify my reaction with a divine mandate.Sy Hoekstra: Or just plug those feelings into stereotypes and all of the existing ways of thinking about people that we provide for each other so that we can avoid doing that very reflection.Jonathan Walton: That's all that I thought about there [laughs]. I'm going to be thinking about that for a while actually. So Sy, which tab is still open for you? We're going to talk about a segment where we dive a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. And remember, you can get this newsletter for free just by signing up for our mailing list at KTFPress.com. You'll get recommendations on articles, podcasts and other media that both of us have found that will help you in your political education and discipleship. Plus you'll get reflections to keep us grounded, from me and Sy that help keep us grounded every week as we engage in just this challenging work and together in the news about what's happening and all that.You can get everything I'm just talking about at KTFPress.com and more. So go get that free subscription at KTFPress.com. So Sy, want to summarize that main story point for us?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I mean, this is interesting, because when I wrote about this, which is the story about Haitian immigrants in Ohio, it was two days after the debate, and the story has only exploded since then, and I think a lot of people kind of probably have the gist of it already. But some completely unfounded rumors based on fourth hand nonsense and some blurry pictures of people that have nothing whatsoever to do with Haitian immigrants started spreading online among right wing conspiracy theorists saying, for some reason, that Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio were eating pets.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Stealing, kidnapping and eating the resident's pets.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And the absurdity of this story was immediately apparent to me being someone who married into a Haitian immigrant family, Haitians do not eat cats and dogs [laughs]. It's a ridiculous thing to have to say, but I say it because I understand, maybe you have no, maybe you know nothing whatsoever about Haiti and you think, “Well, I don't know. There are some cultures around the world where they eat animals that we think of as pets or that we don't think of as food or whatever.” And like, okay, fine, that's true. It's not Haiti, though.Jonathan Walton: Right [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: The idea of eating a cat or a dog to a Haitian is as weird to them as it is to us. I promise you, I've had so much Haitian food [laughter]. So basically this rumor spread, Donald Trump mentions that the debates and now there are Proud Boys in Springfield, Ohio, marching around with cat posters and memes. There are people calling in bomb threats to schools and to government buildings, to all other institutions in Springfield. The Haitian population is very afraid of Donald Trump. At this point, we're recording this on Friday, September 20, he has said that he will travel to Springfield, and basically everyone there has said, “Please do not do that. You're only going to stoke more problems.”And every last piece of evidence that has been offered as evidence, which was always pretty weak in the first place, has been debunked at this point. There was one, the Vance campaign just recent, the past couple days, gave a police report to the Washington Post and said, “See, we found it. Here's a woman who actually filed a police report that says that my Haitian neighbors took my cat and ate my cat.” And the Washington Post did what, for some reason Republicans never expect journalists to do, and actually did their job and called up the woman who said, “Oh, yeah, I filed that report, and then I found my cat in my basement, and they were fine.” [laughs]Jonathan Walton: Yes. In her house.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. And so I don't know, there have been a couple of blips like that where somebody is like, “See, I found evidence,” and then someone was immediately like, “That's not actually evidence.” There have been rumors of other rallies or whatever. It's basically just becoming a focal point and a meme for all of Trump and his supporters, immigration resentment.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: There was a story today about people in Alabama being concerned about, some small town in Alabama being concerned about becoming the next Springfield because they had 60 Haitian immigrants in their town of 12,000 people [laughs]. I don't know. It's all just bizarre. The main actual point though, around the actual immigration policy stuff, Gabrielle and a few other people, my wife's name is Gabrielle, and a few other Haitians that I've seen comment on this, keep bringing up the Toni Morrison quote about how racism is a distraction from actual issues.Jonathan Walton: That is literally what I was gonna read.Sy Hoekstra: There you go. Okay [laughs]. So the actual issue here is that there's this community of about 60,000 people in Ohio that has had an influx of about 15,000 Haitian immigrants, and so it's a lot of strain on the schools and housing and stuff like that, which those are real questions. But also, the Haitian immigrants are there because the local economy revitalization efforts led to a bunch of manufacturers coming into Springfield and having more jobs than laborers, and explicitly saying, “We need you to bring in more laborers.” And so they were Haitian immigrants who are legally in the country [laughs], who have social security numbers and temporary protected status at the very least if not green cards or whatever, have been filling these jobs, and not remotely even a majority of these jobs.They're just filling in the extra 10, 15 percent or whatever the workforce that these manufacturers thought they needed. And the story has become, “Haitians are taking our jobs,” which is absolute nonsense.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So those are the main points of the story. Sorry, I talked a while. I have a lot of feelings about this one [laughs].Jonathan Walton: No, I mean…Sy Hoekstra: But Jonathan, what are your thoughts?Jonathan Walton: For a good reason. Let me just say this quote by Toni Morrison, “The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining over and over again your reason for being. Somebody says your head isn't shaped properly, and you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdoms, so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.” So along with that Toni Morrison quote, I want to put that side by side with this quote from Robert Jones Jr.'s National Book of the Year, The Prophets.“To survive this place, you had to want to die. That was the way of the world as remade by the Toubab.” Toubab is a Western and Central African word for colonizer, European. “They push people into the mud and then call them filthy. They forbade people from accessing knowledge of the world, and then called them simple. They worked people until their empty hands were twisted and bleeding and can do no more, than they called them lazy. They forced people to eat innards from troughs, and then called them uncivilized. They kidnapped babies and shattered families and then called them incapable of love. They raped and lynched and cut up people into parts and called the pieces savages. They stepped on people's throats with all of their might and asked why the people couldn't breathe.”“And then when people made an attempt to break the foot or cut it off one they screamed, “Chaos,” and claimed that mass murder was the only way to restore order. They praised every daisy and then called every blackberry a stain. They bled the color from God's face, gave it a dangle between its legs, and called it holy. Then when they were done breaking things, they pointed to the sky and called the color of the universe itself a sin, [black]. And then the whole world believed them, even some of Samuel's [or Black] people. Especially some of Samuel's people. This was untoward and made it hard to open your heart to feel a sense of loyalty that wasn't a strategy. It was easier to just seal yourself up and rock yourself to sleep.”That to me, like those two quotes together. So the Son of Baldwin, Robert Jones Jr, great follow on Substack and that quote from Toni Morrison, an iconic Black female writer, wrote Beloved, The Bluest Eye, those two things together, like what racism does to a person. The giving up, the I just, “What can I do?” and the distraction for the people who do have effort, are just two roads that I wish we just didn't have to go down. But most people will spend our energy either resigned because we've spent too much or pushing against the lie as the powers that be continue to carry out genocide, continue to extract limestone from Haiti, continues to extract resources from Haiti, continue to destroy African economies through extraction in the Congo and Benin and all the places.And so my prayer and longing is that the resilience of the Haitian people and the legacy of Toussaint and all of that would be present in the people that are there and the diaspora. And I believe that is true. And I pray for safety for all of the people that still have to live in this, what is fastly becoming a sundown town.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: It's a very real thing. And I talked to someone else. Oh, actually [laughs], it was a DM on Instagram that I sent to Brandy, and she agreed that there's a lot of PTSD from when Trump was president, because things like this got said every day.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: All the time. And downstream of rhetoric are real actions, like lawyers and taxi drivers being mobilized to go to the airport to try and get the, quote- unquote, Muslim banned people now representation and get them to their destinations. You had very real terrible child separation that happened, that children are still separated from their families right now. And so downstream of all this stuff, are real, real concrete actions. And I am praying that… my daughter asked me this morning, Maya, she said, “Do I want Trump to win, or do I want Harris to win?” And I said, “Maya, I hope that Trump does not win.” She goes “Well, if Harris wins, will it be better?”I said, “It depends on who you ask, but I think there will be a better chance for us to move towards something more helpful if Trump does not win.” And then she said she knew some people who are supportive of Trump, and I told her things that her eight year old brain cannot handle.Sy Hoekstra: But wait, what does that mean? [laughs]Jonathan Walton: I just started breaking down why that is because I couldn't help myself.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, why people support him.Jonathan Walton: Why people would support him.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, okay.Jonathan Walton: And then she quickly pivoted back to Story Pirates, which is a wonderful podcast about professional improvisational actors telling kid stories like Cecily Strong and things like that. It's hilarious. But all that to say, I think this is a prime example of the type of chaos and environment that is created when someone like Trump is president and the cameras are on him at all times. And I hope that is not the reality, because he absolutely does not have any meaningful policy positions besides Project 2025. I don't know if you saw… I'm talking a lot. He was in a town hall in Michigan, and someone asked him what his child care policies were. Like what actionable policy does he have? And he said a word salad and a buffet of dictionaries that you don't know what he was talking about.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It was nonsense that somehow ended up with immigration being a problem.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so I think that the worst factions of our country will have a vehicle to live out their worst fantasies about deportations and violence and racism, White supremacy and patriarchy and all those things, if he becomes president. And that's really sad to me, and I think it's a preview of that is what's happening in Springfield right now.Sy Hoekstra: Here's another angle on this. And it fits into everything you just said, but it's just from a different angle, bringing a little bit of Haitian history here. The Haitian Revolution is probably, I can't say that I've read everything to guarantee this, is probably the greatest act of defiance against White supremacy that the world has ever seen. For those who don't know, it happened right after the American Revolution, it was just the enslaved people of the island of Saint-Domingue, which is now Haiti in the Dominican Republic, rising up and overthrowing the French and taking the island for themselves and establishing, like writing the world's second written constitution and establishing basically the world's second democracy.Really the world's first actual democracy [laughs] if you think about how American democracy was restricted to a very small group of people. If you read things that people in colonial governments or slave owners throughout the Western Hemisphere wrote and like when they spoke to each other about their fears over the next decades before slavery is abolished, Haiti is constantly on their minds.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: They never stop talking about it. It's actually mentioned in some of the declarations of secession before the Civil War. When the states wrote why they were seceding, it was like, “Because the Union wants Haiti to happen to us.” For the plantation owners to be killed. It was an obsession, and so the colonial powers in Europe, you may have read some of the work that the New York Times did in the New York Times Magazine last year, maybe it was two years ago, about this. But the amount of energy from European powers that went into making sure that Haiti as a country never had access to global markets or the global economy, that they were constantly impoverished.They were still finding ways to extract money from Haiti, even though it was an independent country. The fact that the US colonized Haiti for almost 20 years in the early 20th century, like the ways that we have controlled who is in power in their government from afar. We've propped up some of the most brutal dictators in the history of the world, honestly. We have been punishing and making sure that everybody knows that the defiance of white supremacy that Haiti showed will never be tolerated.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And so it is so easy for Haitians at every stage to become a scapegoat for whatever anxiety we have about the world becoming less White, the world becoming less of like under our control. Haitian immigrants were the reason that we started using Guantanamo Bay as a prison. They were the first people that we ever imprisoned there. We changed our policies, we like… Do you know for a long time, they wouldn't let Haitian people donate blood in America?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Because we said they'd had HIV. They had dirty blood, is what we said about them for years. Haiti is not at the bottom because of its choice. That's what we're constantly telling ourselves. Pat Robertson went on his show after the earthquake in 2010, and said the reason that these things still happen to Haiti is because they did Voodoo before their revolution, because they're pagans or whatever. We will make up any reason to not just take responsibility. Again, like with the Bosnians, the Somalis, we make up any reason to not just take responsibility for our actions.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And this is just a continuation of that. And I don't know that I have a further point beyond that, other than to say, everything that Trump and Vance and the Proud Boys and all of them are doing in Springfield right now is just a continuation of that. “You're immigrants that we will call illegal, even though you're not right and you are Black. Your whole pride in your culture and your history is about the way that you defied White supremacy, and you're foreign to us, and you are strange. And we will say that you do things like eat cats that you don't do, and we will just believe it, because we don't actually want to know anything about you other than that you are a monster who defies the way that the world should be ordered.”Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: I'm trying to stop myself from tearing up right now, and I don't know that I have points beyond this. Do you know what I mean? I'm just angry because this is like people, this is my wife and my daughter. I'm probably just taking time now to do what I should have done earlier in this process, which is just feel all the sadness and the anger. But that is what I feel. The Trump and Vance and the people that are a part of his movement are just horrifying. The fruit of their way of seeing the world is just evil, and I think that's where I'm leaving it for now [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. And the very thing that Haitian people are called, evil, voodoo all those things, is what White supremacy is.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: That is evil, and that is wicked, and it has been at work for centuries. And in Jesus name, as Connie Anderson would pray in the work she does with White people around White supremacy and leaving that behind, and she says she just prays that it would be overthrown. That demonic power would be overthrown, and people would be disobedient to that leaning.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And I pray the same would be true for many, many people before and after the polls close on November the 5th.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. So in the newsletter, I put an email address where you could send a PayPal donation to the local Haitian community center. We'll have a link to that in the show notes too. The Haitians on the ground, especially some of the pastors and the churches there, are doing some incredible work to try and keep the peace. I think people have been overlooking that. There was a decent Christianity Today article on kind of what's going on the ground in Ohio, but it really focused on what the local White churches are doing to help [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I really need people to focus on the Haitians, like what is actually happening there, and the fact that there are White supremacists marching around the town. And how terrifying that has to be for them, and how the people who are doing the work to keep the peace there are heroic, and they should not have to be. And they deserve all of our support and all our prayers. So I appreciate anything that you can, any intercession that you can do, any money that you can give. Any support that you can be. Any help that you can be just spreading the truth to people who may not be wanting to hear it or who might not be hearing it from their news sources right now,Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: We're gonna end there, then. Thank you so much for listening. Please remember to go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber and support everything we're doing, the media that we're making here. Get the bonus episodes to this show, come to our monthly Zoom calls to have a chat with me and Jonathan about everything that's going on in the election. Bring us your questions, get access to comments on our posts and more pl

This week on Truth to Power, we bring you highlights from The People's Summit on Food Systems and Urban Agriculture: Food Vision 2030, which took place on September 13th, 2024 at Louisville Central Community Center. It was hosted by Forward Radio's proud Community Partner, the Urban Agriculture Coalition and the Food In Neighborhoods community collective, more broadly. Today we'll listen in to the Workshop: We Need Land, Money & Control, which featured three amazing panelists: 1. Mariel Gardner, West Louisville Women's Collective in the Chickasaw neighborhood 2. Rita Lewis Simms, Kentucky Agriculture Advocacy 3. Elmer Zavala, La Minga Farm Moderators: Kelsey Voit, farmer; Theresa Zawacki, Greater Louisville Food Council Learn more at https://foodinneighborhoods.org/peoples-summit/ On Truth to Power each week, we gather people from around the community to discuss the state of the world, the nation, the state, and the city! It's a community conversation like you won't hear anywhere else! Truth to Power airs every Friday at 9pm, Saturday at 11am, and Sunday at 4pm on Louisville's grassroots, community radio station, Forward Radio 106.5fm WFMP and live streams at https://forwardradio.org

This week, I interview Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer, an author, speaker, and Choctaw storyteller from Texas who has published 19 books. Sarah writes historical fiction, primarily focusing on American Indian characters, particularly from her own Choctaw heritage. Her *Choctaw Tribune* series, for example, highlights the Choctaw people, although she also includes characters from other tribes like the Chickasaw and Cherokee. Sarah shares the importance of writing about American Indian characters authentically. We discuss her frustrations with historical fiction's common stereotypes and how Native characters were often depicted inaccurately. And then we talk about the use of dictation in writing, a technique she has mastered to write more efficiently and comfortably. Dictation has doubled her writing speed, allowing her to produce up to 4,000 words an hour, making it easier on her body and reducing the exhaustion associated with typing.

His was mother was Chickasaw. His father, who was Anglo, rejected him as his son... so Larry grew up in someone else' home with the stigma of being a "half-breed". He had heard that these kinds of boys were the worst, and so somehow he thought he needed to live up to that. This is a story with a sad beginning, but thankfully it doesn't end that way.

Inadequate infrastructure is only one of the problems contributing to the fact that Native Americans and Alaska Natives lag behind everyone else when it comes to broadband access. Digital rights advocates say tribes need more say in how readily available data pathways that already exist are divvied up. We'll hear about the role digital spectrum plays in connectivity that determines the course of business development, access to healthcare, and educational opportunities. GUESTS Darrah Blackwater (Diné), attorney and conceptual artist Geoffrey Blackwell (Chickasaw, Choctaw, Omaha, and Muscogee), general counsel and chief of staff for the National Congress of American Indians Kevin Gifford, professor at University of Colorado Boulder

Part 3 They called her “savage”. She was a tough, independent and widowed single mother, attempting to succeed during a time when women were just starting to have a voice (although many Native women were still very much unheard). Join me and my guest, Nicolette Blount as she delves into the stories of her great grandmother, Wanda Savage, a 1920s Chickasaw sharpshooter, stunt woman, dancer and silent film actress! And Nicolette has beautifully turned Wanda's story into a show called, “Savage the Musical” and it's gaining fast acclaim! This is the story of survival, the universal desire to be accepted and a quest for redemption that you must hear! Calling all NATIVE CREATIVES – if you're looking for work, learn more on these episodes, and check out nativetheaterartists.com! Check out Savage the Musical at https://savagethemusical.com/. And follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify, iTunes and Pandora! Native ChocTalk Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast All Podcast Episodes: https://nativechoctalk.com/podcasts/

The main character in Chickasaw writer Danica Nava's debut novel gets into trouble for making some questionable claims about her Choctaw identity to try and get ahead in the working world. Cherokee citizen Christina Berry writes about an Austin woman's sometimes funny, sometimes heart wrenching desire to start a family. And Karen Kay's historical novel explores an interracial connection on the mid-1800s Great Plains frontier. What each of these books has in common is the quest for true love. They also have honest, complex, and engaging portrayals of Native characters written by Native authors. We'll hear from them about their work and Native representation in modern romance literature. GUESTS Danica Nava (Chickasaw), author of The Truth According to Ember Karen Kay (Choctaw), historical romance author Christina Berry (citizen of the Cherokee Nation), contemporary romance author

Part 2 They called her “savage” and she was a tough, independent and widowed single mother, attempting to succeed during a time when women were just starting to have a voice (although many Native women were still very much unheard). Join me and my guest, Nicolette Blount as she delves into the stories of her great grandmother, Wanda Savage, a 1920s Chickasaw sharpshooter, stunt woman, dancer and silent film actress! And Nicolette has beautifully turned Wanda's story into a show called, “Savage the Musical” and it's gaining fast acclaim! This is the story of survival, the universal desire to be accepted and a quest for redemption that you must hear! Native ChocTalk Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast All Podcast Episodes: https://nativechoctalk.com/podcasts/

They called her “savage” and she was a tough, independent and widowed single mother, attempting to succeed during a time when women were just starting to have a voice (although many Native women were still very much unheard). Join me and my guest, Nicolette Blount as she delves into the stories of her great grandmother, Wanda Savage, a 1920s Chickasaw sharpshooter, stunt woman, dancer and silent film actress! And Nicolette has beautifully turned Wanda's story into a show called, “Savage the Musical” and it's gaining fast acclaim! This is the story of survival, the universal desire to be accepted and a quest for redemption that you must hear! Native ChocTalk Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast All Podcast Episodes: https://nativechoctalk.com/podcasts/

September 2024 - DAR Today Podcast - Week 1National Society Daughters of the American RevolutionPresident General Pamela Edwards Rouse WrightProduction of the DAR Today Podcast Committee - National Chair Brooke Bullmaster StewartClick for more information about the Daughters of the American Revolution!CLICK HERE to visit our YouTube (video) version of this podcastTo support the goals and mission of the DAR, please visit our web site at DAR.org/GivingIn This Episode:Committee Interview Series: American Indians Committee National Chair Beth GarnerChickasaw Princesses perform at Continental Congress! Chickasaw Princess Abby Gaines, Chickasaw Junior Princess Jadyce Burns, and Little Miss Chickasaw Jagger Underwood. Special thanks to the Photographers with "Congress Photography" and to Jennifer Horsley for their photos! Shop DAR!ITEMS:Our Patriots Coloring Book:https://shop.dar.org/our-patriots-coloring-book/Friends of the American Indians Scholarship Fund pin:https://shop.dar.org/friends-of-the-american-indians-scholarship/American Indian Pin (for members and the public):https://shop.dar.org/american-indians-committee-pin/Ways to Give to DAR!https://www.dar.org/giving/ways-give   All music is copyright free and provided by Epidemic SoundSongs Used in this Episode:Together We Can- AiraeAmerica the Beautiful, marching band editionElegance - Megan WoffordI'll Send You a Letter - Johannes Bornlof All music free of copyright and provided through Epidemic Sound! Check out this amazing source for music at https://share.epidemicsound.com/xr2blv For more information about the Daughters of the American Revolution, please visit DAR.orgTo support the goals and mission of the DAR, please visit our web site at DAR.org/Giving

When I cover cases, I try to give you the who, what, where, when, and why. In the disappearance of Faith Lindsey, which is a solved case, I still can't give you the answer to the most pressing question for her family and that is where is Faith? I don't have that answer but I'm confident someone does.  This case is *partially solved* DV helplines by phone: US 1−800−799−7233 UK 0808 2000 247 Australia 1 800 737 732 Ireland 1 800 341 900 Canada (find appropriate regional helpline) https://endingviolencecanada.org/domestic-violence-shelters-transition-houses-and-support-services/ By internet: Forever Your Overwatch Foundation: https://fyofoundation.org/ US: https://www.thehotline.org/ Canada: https://endingviolencecanada.org/getting-help/ UK: https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/ Australia: https://www.whiteribbon.org.au/find-help/domestic-violence-hotlines/ Ireland: https://www.safeireland.ie/get-help/  If you know anything, please call the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation at 800-522-8017 or leave a tip with the FBI at tips.fbi.gov/  Case Timeline Come to Chile and Argentina with me! True Crime & Fine Wine w/ Josh Hallmark, Charlie Worroll & Lanie Hobbs    Support the show! Get the exclusive show Beyond the Files plus Crimelines episodes ad free on Supercast: https://crimelines.supercast.com/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/crimelines Apple Subscriptions: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crimelines-true-crime/id1112004494  For one time support: https://www.basementfortproductions.com/support   Or check out my other podcast Crimelines & Consequences in your favorite podcast app or on YouTube.   Links to all my socials and more: https://linktr.ee/crimelines Sources: 2024 Crimelines Podcast Source List Events: Oct 18-20 Berkshire Podcast Festival  Feb 27-Mar 5 2025 True Crime & Fine Wine w/ Josh Hallmark, Charlie Worroll & Lanie Hobbs Transcript: https://app.podscribe.ai/series/3790 If an exact transcript is needed, please request at crimelinespodcast@gmail.com   Licensing and credits: Theme music by Scott Buckley https://www.scottbuckley.com.au/ Cover Art by Lars Hacking from Rusty Hinges   Crimelines is a registered trademark of Crimelines LLC.  

The Cherokee, Chickasaw, Muscogee, Choctaw, and Seminole Nations of Oklahoma have agreed to recognize each other's licenses for hunting and fishing on their respective reservation lands. Tribal leaders say the agreement both strengthens their sovereignty and creates a more sustainable fish and wildlife management system. If you know where to look, there is an abundance of edible fungi available on trees and the forest floor. It's mushroom season in the Southwest and Native foragers are collecting beefsteaks, lobsters, and chicken of the woods. And Columbia River tribes celebrate what is among their oldest food sources: lamprey. These are the topics in the latest helping of The Menu, our regular Indigenous food show hosted by Andi Murphy. GUESTS Erik Holt (Nez Perce), chairman of the Nez Perce Tribe Fish and Wildlife Commission Jaren Bates (Diné), chef and pit master Matt Gamble, senior manager of Wildlife Conservation for the Choctaw Nation

Connor is from New Hampton, IA and was a part of the rich wrestling tradition that is Chickasaw wrestling. Connor was a 3x NEIC champion, which is an accomplishment in itself. He was also a 2x state placewinner, finishing 2nd as a sophomore and 3rd as a senior. Connor continued his wrestling career at Wartburg, where he competed his entire collegiate career. Connor now lives in Kasson, MN with his wife and his son, Anders. So please, sit back, relax and enjoy, Connor Cleveland! Euphoria Coffee website: https://www.drinkeuphoriacoffee2go.com/ Let's Talk Wrestling website: https://letstalkwrestlingpodcast.my.canva.site/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lets-talk-wrestling/support

Friday night, the Kingston Chamber Music Festival will host the world premiere of “Woodland Songs” by Jerod Impichchaachaaha' Tate, performed by the Dover String Quartet. Artscape producer James Baumgartner talked with Tate about how he incorporates Chickasaw music with classical traditions.

Welcome to Native ChocTalk's Season 7! In this 2-part series, I'd like to start to kick off the season by paying tribute to those who are the life blood of our country - farmers. And in this case, a Chickasaw one. Farmers play an indispensable role in this great country, providing the necessary elements of our sustenance and wellbeing. Their work begins long before the sun rises and often extends well after it sets, driven by a profound connection to the land. One example of such a farmer is my Chickasaw uncle, Lloyd Aiken who's notorious for holding a cowboy hat on his head and balancing a toothpick between his teeth, while recalling the best stories from his life's memory bank. I recently took a quick drive from my home in Chickasha to Uncle Lloyd's cattle farm and home in Washington, Oklahoma – this is Chickasaw country. I wanted to learn more about his life, farming, tending to his ancestral land allotments and service to our country. And I learned so much more than I expected. I hope you'll enjoy the stories of my Uncle Lloyd as much as I've always loved sitting and listening to them. And if you get a chance, thank a farmer for all they do! Native ChocTalk Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast All Podcast Episodes: https://nativechoctalk.com/podcasts/

Welcome to Native ChocTalk's Season 7! In the final part of this 2-part series, I'd like to kick off the season by paying tribute to those who are the life blood of our country - farmers. And in this case, a Chickasaw one. Farmers play an indispensable role in this great country, providing the necessary elements of our sustenance and wellbeing. Their work begins long before the sun rises and often extends well after it sets, driven by a profound connection to the land. One example of such a farmer is my Chickasaw uncle, Lloyd Aiken who's notorious for holding a cowboy hat on his head and balancing a toothpick between his teeth, while recalling the best stories from his life's memory bank. I recently took a quick drive from my home in Chickasha to Uncle Lloyd's cattle farm and home in Washington, Oklahoma – this is Chickasaw country. I wanted to learn more about his life, farming, tending to his ancestral land allotments and service to our country. And I learned so much more than I expected. I hope you'll enjoy the stories of my Uncle Lloyd as much as I've always loved sitting and listening to them. And if you get a chance, thank a farmer for all they do! Native ChocTalk Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nativechoctalkpodcast All Podcast Episodes: https://nativechoctalk.com/podcasts/

Phyllis Berry was a 21-year-old Chickasaw woman who disappeared during a trip to Terlingua, Texas, in November 1975. Phyllis, along with friends Vangie Strait and Terry Robert Bailey, visited the town for the annual chili cook-off and planned to camp. Phyllis was last seen by a campfire with friends and a hitchhiker named Jim. After a brief absence to gather wood, her friends returned to find her missing. Despite extensive searches involving multiple law enforcement agencies, helicopters, and specially trained dogs, no trace of Phyllis was found. Her car, personal belongings, and dog were left behind. Various theories emerged, including possible foul play or an accident involving nearby mine shafts, but no concrete evidence was discovered. Phyllis's family and friends continued to search and keep her story alive, but the case remains unsolved. If you feel that you need support regarding any of the issues presented in this episode, please contact your local crisis centre. CREDITS: Narration and Production - Kirsty Skye Research and Writing - Dark Curiosities Scoring - S. D. D. C. LISTEN: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4VihnSDeXi8kvoZhdDUdvJ?si=mT3zc7gdQJisHibBr4ImIA Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stolen-sisters/id1517420487 AnchorFM: anchor.fm/stolensisters SOCIALS: Website - https://anchor.fm/stolensisters Twitter - @Stolen_Sisters Instagram - @stolensisterspod Email - stolensisterspodcast@yahoo.com Sources:⁠ Sources: https://charleyproject.org/case/phyllis-eleanor-berry https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/544dftx.html https://www.namus.gov/MissingPersons/Case#/2927 https://int-missing.fandom.com/wiki/Phyllis_Berry https://www.dps.texas.gov/apps/mpch/MissingPerson/mpDetails/M10-15-20015-05-47PM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine,_Texas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terlingua,_Texas The Odessa American, Sun, 30 Nov 1975, Page 49 (via https://www.newspapers.com/image/300897536/?clipping_id=21674130&fcfToken=eyJhbG ciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJmcmVlLXZpZXctaWQiOjMwMDg5NzUzNiwiaWF0IjoxNzIw NzE2NDkxLCJleHAiOjE3MjA4MDI4OTF9.b-eUI3GjM9CbplF4cFpPyy06dUJzzvILjlE-Vd4w-Xg) 01 Nov 75 - The Odessa American, 27 Aug 1978 The Odessa American, Wed, 13 Oct 1976, Page 2 The Odessa American, Odessa, Texas · Saturday 16 October 1976 (via https://www.newspapers.com/image/301895980/?match=1&terms=Phyllis%20Berry) The Odessa American, Odessa, Texas, Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Page 1 The Odessa American, Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Page 2 San Angelo Standard-Times, Wed, 05 Nov 1975 ·Page 2 CLOAK AND DAGGER STUDIOS LTD©

Aimee Roberson, Executive Director, is a citizen of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and also of Chickasaw, Scottish, Irish, and English descent. Aimee is a lifelong student of Earth's wisdom and holds a Bachelor's degree in Geology from Macalester College and a Master's degree in Conservation Biology from the University of Minnesota. Within her community, Aimee is learning Chahta anumpa (Choctaw language), practicing traditional arts, growing and preparing traditional foods, and learning and teaching about her Peoples' history, values, and responsibilities to care for our land, waters, and all our relatives. Interviewee: Aimee Roberson (Choctaw, Chickasaw) Music: "Ch´a´oj" by SOTZ´IL, used with permission "Kame" by SOTZ´IL, used with permission. "Burn your village to the ground", by The Halluci Nation, used with permission.

As digital technology increasingly becomes the main infrastructure for information and commerce, tribes will need to create an informed strategy to make sure their voices are included. That is one of the driving factors behind the new Center for Tribal Digital Sovereignty that just launched by Arizona State University and the National Congress of American Indians. The project will research and help tribes navigate important trends and issues including broadband connectivity, AI, and data privacy protection. GUESTS Dr. Traci Morris (Chickasaw nation), executive director and research professor at the American Indian Policy Institute at the Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law at Arizona State University Geoffrey Blackwell (Chickasaw, Choctaw, Omaha, and Muscogee Creek), general counsel and chief of staff for the National Congress of American Indians Matthew Rantanen (Cree), director of technology for Southern California Tribal Chairmen's Association, board member of the American Indian Policy Institute at Arizona State University, and co-chair of Tech and Telecom at the National Congress of American Indians

More than 30 pieces of century-old Hopi pottery, baskets, and other items are making a return visit to the Hopi community, making them available to the descendants of the artists for the first time. The project is called Tuma Angwu Owya. The pieces were originally acquired by a wealthy Massachusetts family who visited the Hopi reservation during cross-country trip in the late 1920s. They forged a lasting relationship with some Hopi community members. Their collection is now housed at Wesleyan University, which is helping facilitate this unique return to their place of origin for a weekend. We'll talk with the event organizers about bringing these works back to the Hopi reservation. GUESTS Patty Talahongva (Hopi), journalist and community curator Donna Humetewa Kaye (Hopi), facilitator for Hopitutuqaiki Lea McChesney, curator of ethnology at Maxwell Museum of Anthropology We'll also hear from a Freedmen descendant about the implications of the Oklahoma State Supreme Court denying reparations to the two remaining survivors of the deadly 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre in Greenwood, Oklahoma. Dr. Maurice Franklin (Muscogee [Creek] Nation, Chickasaw, and Choctaw Freedmen descendent), lecturer and consultant on organizational sustainability and development strategies; professor at California State University, Northridge; and a founding member of the National Black Justice Coalition Break 1 Music: We're Going Home (song) Clark Tenakhongva (artist) Hear My Song, Hear My Prayer – Songs from the Hopi Mesas (album) Break 2 Music: Over and Over (song) Celeigh Cardinal (artist)

Join Kelli & Bob on the second episode of 'On The Road' and follow along several stops including: Dr. Graveyard in Sunnyvale, TX, Lagniappe Specialty Meats in Texarkana, AR, Female Trail Boss in Fort Worth, TX, and Chickasaw Linguist in Ada, OK!

Join Kelli & Bob on this first episode of 'On The Road' and follow along several stops including: Lagniappe Specialty Meats in Texarkana, AR, Female Trail Boss in Fort Worth, TX, Chickasaw Linguist in Ada, OK and Stormie's Snocone in China, TX!

The graduating class of 2024 is taking one of the biggest steps in their academic careers. What's next? We know that almost three quarters of Native students graduate high school. And college graduates reached an achievement only 1 in 5 Native people attain by age 25. We devote this show to the Native academic stars reaching a major educational milestone. GUESTS Dr. Waylon Decoteau (citizen of the Standing Rock Sioux, Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians), Doctor of medicine from University of North Dakota Megan Corn, University of North Dakota Jaime Herrell (Cherokee Nation), recent graduate of the Institute of American Indian Arts Jaylon Romine (enrolled Muscogee creek, Kiowa, and Chickasaw), recent graduate of Haskell Indian Nations University

Tamara has finally made it to her 50th state...Oklahoma!! She took an Oklahoma road trip to visit both Oklahoma City and Chickasaw Country in south-central Oklahoma, in partnership with Chickasaw Country and the Chickasaw Nation. Oklahoma City has a lot to offer as a stand-alone destination including the First Americans Museum and the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. Tamara stayed at the aLoft hotel in Bricktown, which is the entertainment district with plenty of restaurants, bars, shops, and the minor league baseball stadium and water taxis. If you are interested in learning more about First American culture and love visiting small towns, tune in to learn more about Chickasaw Country. Some highlights include: Chickasaw Cultural Center Chickasaw National Recreation Area (see bison!) Chisholm Trail Heritage Center (learn about life as a cowboy) "Leg Lamp" sculpture in Chickasha for those that love roadside attractions Small town shopping in Sulphur Art Walk in Pauls Valley You can also read more about Tamara's Oklahoma road trip itinerary on We3Travel. Follow Kim @stuffedsuitcase Follow Tamara @yourtimetofly Other Episodes You Will Enjoy: Glacier Country, Montana Off the beaten Path in Maine West coast road trip Southwest road trip Family road trip tips

Send us a Text Message.Navonne Benally is an Alaska Native, Native American, Two Spirit and the creator of Menabash Media. Navonne also goes by their native names Menabash, Hute ghee'nee, Tulugaq or Ahłeenibaa. They are blessed, honored and empowered to share they come from seven different tribes. They're Iñupiaq, Koyukon Dene' (Athabascan), Navajo, Blackfeet, Mandan, Hidatsa and Chickasaw. They are a full time energy artist, professional marketer and fourth generation beadworker based on Dena'ina Land. Their art is an extension/expression of their mind, body, soul, spirit and emotions. Everything they create contains gentle healing vibes, Indigenous spiritual energy and good medicine. You can inquire about their marketing consulting or art @menabashmedia on Instagram and Facebook. https://www.instagram.com/menabashmedia?igsh=NDN1cTV3M3kzcnhnhttps://www.facebook.com/menabashmedia?mibextid=LQQJ4dSupport the Show.

In this episode of Dialogue Gospel Study, Amy Keel Brown takes us into nature through the scripture of Enos.Amy Keel Brown (she/her/hers) is a Chickasaw woman raised in central Oklahoma. As primary caregiver, she centers… The post Going in the forest with Enos: Gospel Study with Amy Keel Brown appeared first on Dialogue Journal.

In this episode of Dialogue Gospel Study, Amy Keel Brown takes us into nature through the scripture of Enos.Amy Keel Brown (she/her/hers) is a Chickasaw woman raised in central Oklahoma. As primary caregiver, she centers… The post Going in the forest with Enos: Gospel Study with Amy Keel Brown appeared first on Dialogue Journal.

In this episode, Hayley and Amy talk with Chickasaw playwright, producer, and performer Nicolette Blount about her musical Savage, lifting up authentic female voices and stories, increasing accessibility and opportunity for writers of new musicals, parenting as a spiritual practice, and more. Click here for a transcript of the episode! Episode Notes Hosts: Hayley Goldenberg and Amy AndrewsGuest: Nicolette BlountMusic: Chloe Geller Episode Resources: Native Theatre Artists Savage the Musical Museum of Broadway Oklahoma Native Alliance Against Violence Learn more about the Chickasaw Nation Guest Bio: Nicolette Blount (she/her) is a member of the Chickasaw tribe, a playwright, producer, and performer who is currently a fellow for the Dramatist Guild Foundation's National Musical Theatre Fellowship. She is the co-writer, composer and lyricist for Savage: The Unconquerable Wanda Savage. Savage is currently a semifinalist for NMTC O'Neil 2024. Savage received Honorable Mention in the 2022 American Playwriting Foundation's Relentless Award. Nicolette produced an EP and singles for Savage (Savage the Musical Original Cast) that have garnered 43K streams. Through her LLC, Take My Shot Productions, Nicolette co-produced Off Broadway's A Commercial Jingle for Regina Comet and is currently co-producing In Pieces (in development). Nicolette started nativetheatreartists.com to help highlight Natives in the Broadway industry. Nicolette's music has been featured at Laurie Beechman Theatre (NYMF 2019), 54 Below at Women of the Wings, and at the Ring of Keys Gala at Joe's Pub. She is a member of the Dramatists Guild, ASCAP, Society of Composers and Lyricists, Songwriters Guild of America, TRU, MUSE, RISE, and Maestra. Find Nicolette Online: Website: nicoletteblount.com  Savage the Musical Take My Shot Productions Instagram TikTok Facebook Thanks for listening! Who do you want to hear from next on the Women & Theatre Podcast? Nominate someone here. The Women & Theatre Podcast is created and produced by Hayley Goldenberg and Amy Andrews. Please like, comment, subscribe, follow us on Instagram and Facebook, and consider making a donation to support our work. Thank you for listening!

2024 USA Fellow and Chickasaw composer Jerod Impichcha̱achaaha' Tate will premiere an orchestral version of his piece "Pisachi" at Lincoln Center over three nights beginning on Thursday, and will perform at Carnegie Hall on Tuesday. He joins us in the studio to discuss his work and perform live.  *This segment is guest-hosted by Kousha Navidar

2024 USA Fellow and Chickasaw composer Jerod Impichcha̱achaaha' Tate will premiere an orchestral version of his piece "Pisachi" at Lincoln Center over three nights beginning on Thursday, and will perform at Carnegie Hall on Tuesday. He joins us in the studio to discuss his work and perform live.  *This segment is guest-hosted by Kousha Navidar

The “Three Sisters” of corn, beans, and squash all grow together in a symbiotic planting relationship. A Chickasaw chef shares recipes and the significance of these crops to many Native American cultures. Also, the story of the “first Thanksgiving” that persists in American culture often stereotypes Native peoples and sanitizes what happened to them as white settlers dispossessed them of their lands. A picture book written and illustrated by Indigenous authors offers a new story of the “first Thanksgiving” that centers the Three Sisters crops. And some like ‘em and others don't but oysters can be eaten in many ways beyond the half-shell, and farmed correctly they nourish shallow waters. From his coastal Maine kitchen celebrity chef Barton Seaver talks about how oyster farming supports local economies and ecosystems, and whips up an oyster-flavored Thanksgiving stuffing. --  A special thanks to our sponsor this week, MIT's award-winning podcast, Today I Learned: Climate, or TILclimate. It features 15-minute episodes focused on how real scientists and experts think about the science, technologies, and policies behind climate change. Also as a non-profit media organization we could not produce high-quality journalism that educates and inspires you to be fully informed about climate change and environmental issues without your help. In honor of Giving Tuesday please consider making a donation to Living on Earth by going to LoE.org and clicking on donate at the top of the page. Thank you for your support! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices