Podcasts about racial reconciliation

Laura Lomax shares her journey bridging cultural gaps through tailored online learning. Revealing how to adapt DEI content for different audiences, she explores practical strategies for fostering inclusion and engagement, offering actionable takeaways for course creators.Laura Lomax is an intercultural practitioner, instructional designer, training and development specialist, and a certified professional coach.In this episode, Ari, Abe, and Laura discuss:Laura's professional background in intercultural competency, program development, and training across multiple industriesThe evolution of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work and adapting terminology to suit different audiencesStrategies for approaching and customizing courses for organizations, especially impenetrable or conservative institutionsThe importance of tailoring course content and delivery for specific, niche audiencesTechniques for making sensitive or divisive topics more relatable and accessible to all learnersBest practices for effective online course design, including formats, interaction, and engagementChallenges and methods for fostering active participation and deeper engagement in online programsObtaining and utilizing continuing education accreditation as a business strategy and marketing toolLessons learned and practical advice for course creators on course organization, technology use, and content presentationWays to follow up with learners and organizations to ensure training effectiveness and lasting impact“We used the word ‘inclusion' a lot, but unfortunately, diversity, equity, even the word culture, was a little triggering.” — Laura LomaxGuest Bio:Laura Lomax has more than 35 years of leadership experience, including 18 years as CEO of a health care management firm. From assessment, analysis, and program development to delivery and evaluation, Laura focused on designing solutions to underserved communities as well as governmental agencies, including police departments, sheriff's departments, jails, and prison systems in 10 states across the U.S.Since 2015, Laura has focused on developing customized workplace learning solutions to build intercultural awareness and accountability for individuals, teams, and organizations.  She has administered assessments and provided cultural competence workshops to more than 2,000 participants from the following sectors: government, education (K-20), banking, health care, law enforcement, social services, hospitality, and nonprofit agencies.Laura received her BA in Anthropology (1984) and Master of Science in Instructional Design and Technology (2022). She is a certified Intercultural Practitioner and a Qualified Intercultural Development Inventory Administrator. Laura is also a certified facilitator/trainer for competency-building programs, including Cultural Detective, Emotional Intelligence in Diversity, and Pathways to Racial Reconciliation. In 2018 she received the NAACP Pioneer Award for building inclusive communities through leadership.Resources or websites mentioned in this episode:MiraseeRuzukuLaura's website: InterculturalWorks.comLaura's courses: courses.elearnersource.comLaura's email: laura@interculturalworks.comCredits:Hosts: Ari Iny and Abe CrystalProducer and Editor: Michi LantzExecutive Producer: Danny InyMusic Soundscape: Chad Michael SnavelyMaking our hosts sound great: Home Brew AudioTo catch the great episodes that are coming up on Course Lab, please follow us on Mirasee FM's YouTube channel or your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a comment or a starred review. It's the best way to help us get these ideas to more people.Music credits:Track Title: Bossa BBArtist Name: MarieWriter Name: Chelsea McGoughPublisher Name: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONTrack Title: Coo CoosArtist Name: Dresden, The FlamingoWriter Name: Matthew WigtonPublisher Name: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONTrack Title: GraceArtist Name: ShimmerWriter Name: Matthew WigtonPublisher Name: BOSS SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONSTrack Title: Carousel LightsArtist Name: Chelsea McGoughWriter Name: Chelsea McGoughWriter Name: Matthew WigtonPublisher Name: A SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONPublisher Name: BOSS SOUNDSTRIPE PRODUCTIONSSpecial effects credits:24990513_birds-chirping_by_promission used with permission of the author and under license by AudioJungle/Envato Market.Episode transcript: How Smart Course Creators Tackle “Divisive” Topics (Laura Lomax).

SEND US A MESSAGE! We'd Love to Chat With you and Hear your thoughts! We'll read them on the next episode. This is an earlier conversation with Monique Duson and Kevin Briggins of the Center for Biblical Unity and Offcode Podcast. We discuss a relatively recent article in Christianity Today written by Justin Giboney of the AndCampaign. It seems that there is some revising going on when we reflect on the last 10 years and the social justice movement that swept across churches in the United States. The Black Lives Matter movement and critical theory have both been proven toxic. We discuss exactly how we can know that. Link to Woke Preacher ArticleIn the second half of the show, the trio react to Eric Mason's recent statements about the presence of the prosperity Gospel in the black church.LINK TO THE THREADSupport the showPlease Rate & Comment!Hosts: Brandon and Daren SmithWebsite: www.blackandblurred.comPatreon: www.patreon.com/blackandblurredPaypal: https://paypal.me/blackandblurredYouTube: Black and Blurred PodcastIG: @BlackandBlurredPodcastX: @Blurred_Podcast

SEND US A MESSAGE! We'd Love to Chat With you and Hear your thoughts! We'll read them on the next episode.  In this thought-provoking episode, Brandon tackles a sensitive and timely question: Is America's Church RACIST? Brandon explores the complex and often controversial relationship between faith and race in the United States. From the legacy of slavery and segregation to modern-day biases and macroaggressions, we examine the ways in which racism has been perpetuated and perpetuates within Christian hearts. Have we justified hatred by hearkening back to the hatred that preceded it? Is the church truly a beacon of hope and unity, or has it failed to address its own complicity in modern, systemic racism? Listen in and share your thoughts in the comments. Let us know if you also see the growth in ethnic idolatry. Visit Brandon's Church Plant WebsiteSupport the showPlease Rate & Comment!Hosts: Brandon and Daren SmithWebsite: www.blackandblurred.comPatreon: www.patreon.com/blackandblurredPaypal: https://paypal.me/blackandblurredYouTube: Black and Blurred PodcastIG: @BlackandBlurredPodcastX: @Blurred_Podcast

Monique was joined by our friends, Kevin Briggins, and Brandon Smith from the Black and Blurred podcast to talk about a recent article by our friend Woke Preacher Clips. It's a whole long discussion about the decay of race relations in evangelical churches in the last 10 years. Link to the article: "The “Racial Reconciliation” Movement Is Over. Good—Progressives Ruined It" https://centerforbaptistleadership.org/the-racial-reconciliation-movement-is-over-good-progressives-ruined-it/ In the second half of the show, the trio react to Eric Mason's recent statements about the presence of the prosperity Gospel in the black church. Link to the thread: https://x.com/pastoremase/status/1901042476338868451 Check out Brandon Smith's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX1SN81UTyvN4g-TJzHm5kQ -- Be sure to stay connected by downloading the CFBU app! With the CFBU app, you'll have all our resources (Theology Mom, All the Things Show, and CFBU) at your fingertips. Search for "center for biblical unity" in your app store.

Dear friends in Christ, welcome to this podcast from All Saints Episcopal Church in Portland. All Saints is a loving, welcoming parish serving Southeast Portland for over a century. Our purpose is to celebrate God's love, seek and serve Christ in all persons, and go forth into the world rejoicing in the power of the Spirit!Today, we invite you to join our special guest the Rev. Ernestein Flemister, Missioner for Racial Reconciliation for the Episcopal Diocese of Oregon, as she preaches the gospel, and explores the mysteries of God in our modern world!To learn more about the work of the Diocese of Oregon toward racial reconciliation, we invite you to visit https://ecwo.org/erjwg/

"And I think God is moving all the time in those areas, and we miss it. I don't want to miss it." Adrienne Reedy.In this episode of the Be. Make. Do. podcast, Lisa talks with Adrienne Reedy, a multi-talented artist and mentor. She discusses her journey in art and music, emphasizing the transformative impact of visual arts on her life. She stresses the importance of recognizing God's guidance and maintaining joy and positivity, despite challenges. Reedy's motivation stems from a deep sense of being loved and supported, which she aims to instill in others. Join us for this challenging and encouraging conversation.The Maker, The Mystic, The Soul Healer, The Imaginative Visionary, The Prophetic Critic or the Storyteller? What's your archetype? Take the quiz here!Learn more about Adrienne on her website: https://adriennereedy.net/about/Get more inspiration from Adrienne's monthly Artscape to Heartscape conversations with artists on YouTube. Learn more about Convergence at https://www.vergenow.orgStay in touch and share your thoughts:TikTok: @bemakedopodcast
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There's a crisis of good news in our world today. The message of the gospel - the radical, transformative love of God poured out through Jesus Christ - has become muted, obscured by the noise of culture wars and the bitter taste of Christendom's failures. For many, the idea of "evangelism" conjures up images of slick preachers and aggressive door-to-door campaigns, leaving a sour note where there should be a jubilant melody. But my guest today, Derwin Gray, is on a mission to reclaim that melody - to help believers rediscover the joy and power of sharing the good news, not as a chore or a weapon, but as an overflow of the love that has set their own hearts ablaze. As the founding pastor of Transformation Church, Derwin has witnessed firsthand the way a community can be "lit up with love" - a people so captivated by the grace of God that it spills out into every corner of their lives. In our conversation, he unpacks a vision of evangelism that is relational, empathetic, and rooted in the overwhelming reality of God's affection. It's a perspective that has the potential to rekindle our passion for the gospel and reshape how we engage a world that is, in many ways, starving for the good news. So join me as we dive into Derwin's story, and discover how the simple act of receiving God's love can transform us into everyday missionaries, compelled to share the most life-giving news the world has ever known. Dr. Derwin L. Gray is the co-founding and Lead Pastor of Transformation Church, just outside of Charlotte, NC. He is also the author of several books, including “How to Heal Our Racial Divide: What the Bible Says, and What the First Century Christians Knew about Racial Reconciliation." You can follow him at @derwinlgray on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, as well as www.derwinlgray.com.Derwin's Book:Lit Up With LoveDerwin's Recommendation:Paul: A BiographySubscribe to Our Substack: Shifting CultureConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeConsider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link belowEmail jjohnson@allnations.us, so we can get your creative project off the ground! Support the show

Perhaps no executive order of President Trump’s has so far been met with as much confusion and consternation as the one issued two weeks ago freezing federal funding for grants and loans. Although it has been blocked temporarily by federal courts, nonprofits and organizations are still reeling from the effect it’s had on grants they’ve won from agencies like the National Endowment for the Arts.  That’s especially true if you’re a nonprofit like Portland choir Cappella Romana, which won a $35,000 NEA grant last May for the premiere of a work about racial reconciliation that fuses Orthodox music with African American gospel. As first reported in Oregon ArtsWatch, the choir was uncertain its NEA grant money could be accessed for performances of Canon for Racial Reconciliation in Seattle and Portland after the federal funding freeze was announced. But a direct appeal to donors, who gave more than $20,000 in 48 hours, has ensured the shows on Feb. 28 and March 1 will go on. On the morning of Feb. 11, the NEA funds appeared in Cappella Romana’s accounts, according to executive director Mark Powell. He joins us to talk about the Canon for Racial Reconciliation, and how the evolving guidance for NEA grants may close the door to works championing racial diversity or marginalized communities.  

Season 6 — with a focus on Reconciliation — kicks off with Rev. Paul Roberts Sr., who doesn't actually use that word. Why? He explains it well in this episode that will have you contemplating the meaning of the term, and how it interacts with the terms Repair and Reparations. Rev. Bill Davis leads the conversation with Roberts, who serves as President of Johnson C. Smith Seminary in Atlanta. Together, they explore the vital topics of repair, and reparations — examining their theological foundations and implications for faith communities today. How can the church actively participate in healing historical injustices? What role does theology play in the call for reparations? Join us for this powerful discussion on justice, faith, and transformative action.

Esau McCauley is a professor of New Testament and Public Theology at Wheaton College, as well as the bestselling author of seven books. In this week's episode, we're talking about his newest book, How Far to the Promised Land, in which he shares his own story of hope and his family's legacy. We also dive into his two fantastic children's books: Andy Johnson and the March for Justice and Josey Johnson's Hair and the Holy Spirit. Through it all, he shares so much rich truth about what it looks like to advocate for justice and anti-racism as a family. This is a conversation that we believe will both enlighten and inspire you. It sure did both of us! You may also enjoy these episodes. Ep 24: Talking to Kids About Race with Dr. Chinwe Williams Ep 96: Teaching Kids How to Engage with People Who Have Differing Points of View with Carlos Whittaker . . . . . Sign up to receive the monthly newsletter to keep up to date with where David and Sissy are speaking, where they are taco'ing, PLUS conversation starters for you and your family to share! Go behind the scenes and watch our podcast on YouTube! Download a copy of the Raising Boys and Girls Feelings Chart. Connect with David, Sissy, and Melissa at raisingboysandgirls.com. . . . . . If you would like to partner with Raising Boys and Girls as a podcast sponsor, fill out our Advertise with us form. A special thank you to our sponsors: Needed: Head over to thisisneeded.com and use code RBG for 20% off your first order. Jolie: Jolie will give you your best skin & hair guaranteed. Head to jolieskinco.com/RBG to try it out for yourself with FREE shipping. And if you don't like it— you can return your Jolie for a full refund within 60 days, no questions asked. Our Place: Go to fromourplace.com and enter my code RBG at checkout to receive 10% off sitewide. Our Place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week we share a Soundings Seminar featuring an in-depth introduction to the Racial Reconciliation Group—a diverse, grassroots community focused on building relationships for racial healing, unity, and justice. They discuss how their group began, some of what they have worked through together, and more generally why they think their group has been so transformative for its members. This was originally recorded as part of Coracle's 2024 “Justice, Mercy & Humility” Soundings Seminar Series.View Our Full Archive of Soundings Seminarsinthecoracle.org  |  @inthecoracle Support the show

January 21, 2025 | Latasha Morrison Latasha Morrison—speaker, founder of Be the Bridge, Master's student in Biblical and Theological Studies, and author...

In this episode, Pastor Scott, Clark, and Tyce engage in a discussion on how Christians can lead the way in fostering racial reconciliation. Join us for a thoughtful and engaging conversation.

Ever wonder what the Bible says about race? Join us as we explore racial reconciliation through the lens of Ephesians 2. You'll be surprised by the powerful message of unity and peace it offers, challenging how we see each other. We'll dive into what it really means to be one in Christ and how to live it out daily. Intrigued? Watch now and discover a fresh perspective on this timely topic! CONNECT WITH US: → Request Prayer: https://bit.ly/3zMyf5E → Request Care: https://bit.ly/3fBTX5G → Share a Testimony: https://bit.ly/3Jo7Ped → Find Events and More: https://bit.ly/3TcrkcR → Leave us a Review on Google: https://bit.ly/47925jP → Plan a Visit in Person: https://bit.ly/3sfQdg7 FOLLOW US: → Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/illuminatec... → Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@illuminate_ch... → Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/illuminatech... WE HELP PEOPLE FIND ABUNDANT LIFE IN JESUS!

Race and racism is a sensitive but essential topic for all believers to come to the table to discuss. In today's episode, Monique Duson, co-founder of Center for Biblical Unity, joins me today to talk about racial reconciliation vs Biblical unity and what that means practically for Christians who are called to live in unity with one another regardless of skin color or ethnic background. How should we view and respond to race, racism, systemic racism, & reparations? What does the biblical model look like for all races to be reconciled? We talk about all of that and more including her new book she has co authored called “Walking in Unity” now out! Center for biblical Unity website: https://www.centerforbiblicalunity.com Book website: https://walkinginunity.com/ Instagram: @centerforbiblicalunity Connect with Victoria on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vickoadeoye/ Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelalone

As an ordinary high school student in the 1960s in Alabama, Tom Tarrants became deeply unsettled by the social upheaval and turned to extremist ideology. While attempting to bomb the home of a Jewish leader in Mississippi, Tom was ambushed by law enforcement and shot multiple times during a high-speed chase. After escaping from prison and being caught, he then had a crushing experience of the weight of his sin and became a Christian while in solitary confinement. Now he's a co-pastor of a racially mixed church and became the president of the C. S. Lewis Institute, where he devoted himself to helping others become wholehearted followers of Jesus. Please check out and share his amazing story. READ: Consumed by Hate, Redeemed by Love: How a Violent Klansman Became a Champion of Racial Reconciliation by Tom Tarrants (https://amzn.to/3AozyLw) *Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf) *USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for 25% off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM) *See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK) FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sean_McDowell TikTok: @sean_mcdowell Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/ Website: https://seanmcdowell.org

This week, we share a For the Journey conversation between Bill Haley and David W. Swanson, a longtime pastor in Chicago and the author of Re-Discipling the White Church: From Cheap Diversity to Real Solidarity. They discuss the discipleship malformations that produced and have perpetuated our racially-segregated Sunday mornings, and David shares several profound insights and stories illustrating the beauty and vitality of a church truly unified by Jesus. He also offers helpful guidance for any Christian who wants to join the racial reconciliation and solidarity movement.Check out David's Newest Book, Plundered: The Tangled Roots of Racial and Environmental InjusticeExplore Coracle's Resources for Racial Healing & JusticeExplore the Conference Recording from "Do You Want to Be Well: Diagnosis, Treatment, and Healing for the Church in America"inthecoracle.org  |  @inthecoracleSupport the show

Today, we're talking with veteran activist and theologian, the one and only, Lisa Sharon Harper! The conversation covers:-        Lisa's journey finding Jesus outside of Whiteness and White evangelicalism-        The centrality of advocating for political and institutional policy change to our faith in Jesus-        How respecting the image of God in all people is the starting point for following Jesus to shalom-        The unavoidable job we have to speak truth, even when it is costly-        Where Lisa finds her hope and motivation to keep going-        And after that, we reflect on the interview and then talk all things Springfield, Ohio and Haitian immigrants.Mentioned on the episode:-            Lisa's website, lisasharonharper.com/-            Lisa's Instagram and Facebook-            The Freedom Road Podcast-            Lisa's books, Fortune and The Very Good Gospel-            Make a donation to The Haitian Community Support and Help Center in Springfield, Ohio via PayPal at haitianhelpcenterspringfield@gmail.com.Credits-            Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Editing by Multitude Productions-        Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes in a major scale, the first three ascending and the last three descending, with a keyboard pad playing the tonic in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Lisa Sharon Harper: I would lose my integrity if I was silent in the face of the breaking of shalom, which I learned in Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia, is built on earth through structures. It doesn't just come because people know Jesus. Two thirds of the people in the Bosnian war knew Jesus. The Croats were Christian and the Serbs were Orthodox Christian, and yet they killed each other. Massacred each other. Unfortunately, knowing Jesus is not enough if you have shaped your understanding of Jesus according to the rules and norms of empire.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. I'm Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I am Sy Hoekstra. We have a great one for you today. We are talking to veteran organizer and theologian Lisa Sharon Harper, someone who a lot of you probably know and who was pretty big in both of our individual kind of stories and development as people who care about faith and justice when we were younger people, which you will hear about as we talk to her. We are going to be talking to her about the centrality of our voting and policy choices to our witness as Christians, the importance of integrity and respecting the image of God in all people when making difficult decisions about where to spend your resources as an activist, where Lisa gets her hope and motivation and a whole lot more.And then after the interview, hear our reactions to it. And we're also going to be getting into our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, where we dive a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our weekly newsletter that we send out to our subscribers. This week it will be all about Haitian immigrants to America in Springfield, Ohio. You will want to hear that conversation. But before we get started, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Please friends, remember to go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber to support this show and get access to everything that we do. We're creating media that centers personal and informed discussions on politics, faith and culture that helps you seek Jesus and confront injustice. We are resisting the idols of the American church by centering and elevating marginalized voices and taking the entirety of Jesus' gospel more seriously than those who narrow it to sin and salvation. The two of us have a lot of experience doing this individually and in community, and we've been friends [laughs] for a good long time. So you can trust it will be honest, sincere, and have some good things to say along the way.If you become a paid subscriber, you'll get access to all of our bonus content, access to our monthly subscriber Zoom chats with me and Sy, and the ability to comment on posts and chat with us. So again, please go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber today.Sy Hoekstra: Our guest today, again, Lisa Sharon Harper, the president and founder of Freedom Road, a groundbreaking consulting group that crafts experiences to bring common understanding and common commitments that lead to common action toward a more just world. Lisa is a public theologian whose writing, speaking, activism and training has sparked and fed the fires of reformation in the church from Ferguson and Charlottesville to South Africa, Brazil, Australia and Ireland. Lisa's book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World, and How to Repair It All was named one of the best books of 2022 and the book before that, The Very Good Gospel, was named 2016 Book of the Year by The Englewood Review of Books. Lisa is the host of the Freedom Road Podcast, and she also writes for her Substack, The Truth Is…Jonathan Walton: Alright, let's jump into the interview.[The intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Lisa Sharon Harper, thank you so much for joining us on Shake the Dust.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yay, I'm so excited to be here, and I'm here with a little bit of a Demi Moore rasp to my voice. So I'm hoping it'll be pleasant to the ears for folks who are coming, because I got a little sick, but I'm not like really sick, because I'm on my way, I'm on the rebound.Sy Hoekstra: So you told us you got this at the DNC, is that right?Lisa Sharon Harper: Yes, I literally, literally, that's like what, almost three weeks ago now?Sy Hoekstra: Oh my gosh.Jonathan Walton: You've got a DNC infection. That's what that is.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Lisa Sharon Harper: I have a DNC cough. I have a DNC cough, that's funny.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So before we jump into our questions, I wanted to take a momentary trip down memory lane, because I have no idea if you remember this or not.Lisa Sharon Harper: Okay.Sy Hoekstra: But in January of 2008, you led a weekend retreat for a college Christian fellowship that Jonathan and I were both in.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, I do remember.Sy Hoekstra: You do remember this? Okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: Absolutely.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Lisa Sharon Harper: I remember almost every time I've ever spoken anywhere.Sy Hoekstra: Wow, okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: I really do. And I remember that one, and I do remember you guys being there. Oh my gosh, that's so cool.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Okay.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: You remember that. That's amazing.Sy Hoekstra: No, no, no.Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Hang on. Wait a minute [laughter]. We don't just remember it. Because, so you gave this series of talks that ended up being a big part of your book, The Very Good Gospel.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And you talked specifically about the difference between genuine and pseudo-community and the need to really address each other's problems that we face, bear each other's burdens, that sort of thing. And you did a session, which I'm sure you've done with other groups, where you split us up into racial groups. So we sat there with White, Black, and Latine, and Asian, and biracial groups, and we had a real discussion about race in a way that the community had absolutely never had before [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: And it actually, it is the opening scene of Jonathan's book. I don't know if you knew that.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my God, I didn't know that.Jonathan Walton: It is.Lisa Sharon Harper: Which one?Jonathan Walton: Twelve Lies.Lisa Sharon Harper: Wow, I didn't know that. Oh my gosh, I missed that. Okay.Sy Hoekstra: So it was a… Jonathan put it before, it was a formative moment for everybody and a transformative moment for some of us [laughter] …Lisa Sharon Harper: Oooooo, Oh my goodness.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: …in that we learned a lot about ourselves and what we thought about race, what other people thought about race. I will tell you that in the five minutes after the session broke up, like ended, it was the first time that my now wife ever said to me, “Hey, you said something racist to me that I didn't like.” [laughs] And then, because of all the conversation we just had, I responded miraculously with the words, “I'm sorry.” [laughter].Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my God!Sy Hoekstra: And then we went from there.Lisa Sharon Harper: Miraculously [laughs]. That's funny.Sy Hoekstra: So I have lots of friends that we can talk about this session with to this day, and they still remember it as transformative.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh my Gosh. Wow.Sy Hoekstra: All of that, just to lead into my first question which is this, a lot of people in 2016 started seeing kind of the things about White evangelicalism that indicated to them that they needed to get out. They needed to escape in some way, because of the bad fruit, the bad political fruit that was manifesting. You saw that bad fruit a long time ago.Lisa Sharon Harper: A whole long time ago.Sy Hoekstra: You were deep in the Republican, pro-life political movement for a little bit, for like, a minute as a young woman.Lisa Sharon Harper: I wouldn't… here's the thing. I wouldn't say I was deep in. What I would say is I was in.Sy Hoekstra: Okay.Lisa Sharon Harper: As in I was in because I was Evangelical, and I identified with itbecause I was Evangelical and because my friends identified with it. So I kind of went along, but I always had this sense I was like standing on the margins looking at it going, “I don't know.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: You know what I mean? But I would say literally for like a minute, I was a believer. Maybe for like, a year.Sy Hoekstra: But my question then is, what were the warning signs? And then, separately from what were the warning signs that you needed to get out, who or what were the guiding lights that showed you a better way?Lisa Sharon Harper: My goodness. Wow. Well, I mean, I would say that honestly… Okay, so I had a couple of conversations, and we're talking about 2004 now. So 2004 also, this is right after 2000 where we had the hanging chads in Florida.Sy Hoekstra: Yep.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Lisa Sharon Harper: And we know how important voting is, because literally, I mean, I actually believe to this day that Gore actually won. And it's not just a belief, they actually counted after the fact, and found that he had won hundreds more ballots that were not counted in the actual election, in Florida. And so every single vote counts. Every single vote counts. So then in 2004 and by 2004, I'm the Director of Racial Reconciliation for greater LA in InterVarsity, I had done a summer mission project that wasn't really mission. It was actually more of a, it was a pilgrimage, actually. It was called the pilgrimage for reconciliation. The summer before, I had done the stateside pilgrimage. And then that summer, I led students on a pilgrimage through Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia asking the question, “How is shalom broken? And how is shalom built? How is it made?”And through both of those successive summer experiences, it became so clear to me, policy matters, and it matters with regard to Christian ethics. We can't say we are Christian and be, in other words, Christ-like if we are not concerned with how our neighbor is faring under the policies coming down from our government. We just can't. And as Christians in a democracy, specifically in America, in the US where we have a democracy, we actually have the expectation that as citizens, we will help shape the way that we live together. And our vote is what does that our vote when we vote for particular people, we're not just voting for who we like. We're voting for the policies they will pass or block. We're voting for the way we want to live together in the world.So in 2004 when I come back from Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, I'm talking with some of my fellow staff workers, and I'm saying to them, “We have to have a conversation with our folks about voting. I mean, this election really matters. It's important. ”Because we had just come through the first few years of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like Iraq had just erupted a couple years before that, Afghanistan the year before that. And we were seeing young men coming back in body bags and this war, which had no plan to end, was sending especially young Black men to die because they were the ones…and I know, because I was in those schools when I was younger, and I alsohad been reading up on this.They're the ones who are recruited by the Marines and the Army and the Navy and the Air Force, especially the army, which is the cannon fodder. They're the ones who are on the front lines. They are recruited by them more than anybody else, at a higher degree than anybody else, a higher percentage ratio. So I was saying we have to have a conversation. And their response to me in 2004 was, “Oh, well, we can't do that, because we can't be political.” I said, “Well, wait, we are political beings. We live in a democracy.” To be a citizen is to help shape the way we live together in the world, and that's all politics is. It's the conversations we have and the decisions that we make about how we are going to live together.And so if we as Christians who have an ethic passed down by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, and we have the 10 Commandments, which is like the grand ethic of humanity, at least of the Abrahamic tradition. Then, if we don't have something to say about how we should be living together and the decisions we make about that every four years, every two years, even in off year elections, then what are we doing here?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: Who are we? Like, what is this faith? What is this Christian faith? So that was my first real rub, because I had experienced the pilgrimage to reconciliation. I had seen, I had rolled through. I had walked on the land where the decisions that the polis, the people had made, had killed people. It had led to the death of millions of people. Thousands of people in some case. Hundreds of people in other cases. But when coming back from Bosnia, it was millions. And so I was just very much aware of the reality that for Christians, politics matters because politics is simply the public exercise of our ethics, of our Christian ethic. And if we don't have one, then we're… honest, I just, I think that we are actually turning our backs on Jesus who spent his life telling us how to live.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And so that was, for me, literally that conversation with that staff worker was kind of my first, “Aha! I'm in the wrong place.” I needed to learn more about how this public work works. How do systems and structures and policies and laws work? So that's what actually brought me, ended up bringing me a year later, to Columbia University and getting my master's in human rights. And I knew, having had the background in the two pilgrimages and the work that we did on the biblical concept of shalom at the time, which was nascent. I mean, it was for me, it was, I barely, really barely, understood it. I just knew it wasn't what I had been taught. So I started digging into shalom at that time, and then learning about international law and human rights and how that works within the international systems.I came out of that with a much clearer view, and then continued to work for the next 13 years to really get at how our Christian ethics intersect with and can help, and have helped shape public policy. And that has led me to understand very clearly that we are complicit in the evil, and we also, as Christians, other streams of our faith are responsible for the redemption, particularly in America and South Africa and other places in the world.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So I think I'm placing myself in your story. So I think we intersected in that 2005, 2008 moment. So I've traveled with you.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, we had a good time. It was so much fun.Jonathan Walton: We did. It was very good. So getting to follow, watch, learn, just for me, has been a huge blessing. First with the book, with New York Faith and Justice, reading stuff with Sojourners, grabbing your books, gleaning different wisdom things for… it's something that I've wondered as I'm a little bit younger in the journey, like as you've operated in this world, in the White Evangelical world, and then still White Evangelical adjacent, operating in these faith spaces. And now with the platform that you have, you've had to exercise a lot of wisdom, a lot of patience and deciding to manage where you show up and when, how you use your time, how you manage these relationships and keep relationships along the way. Because you didn't drop people.Lisa Sharon Harper: I have. I have dropped a few [laughter]. I want to make that really clear, there is an appropriate space to literally shake the dust.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Jonathan Walton: I think what I have not seen you do is dehumanize the people in the places that you left.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, thank you. Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And that's hard to do, because most people, particularly my generation, we see the bridge we just walked across, and we throw Molotov cocktails at that thing [laughter].Lisa Sharon Harper: Y'all do. Your generation is like, “I'm out! And you're never gonna breathe again!” Like, “You're going down!” I'm like, “Oh my God…” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It's quite strong with us [laughs]. And so could you give any pieces of wisdom or things you've learned from God about navigating in that way. Things that we can and folks that are listening can hold on to as things shift, because they will shift and are shifting.Lisa Sharon Harper: They always shift, yeah, because we are not living on a book page. We're living in a world that moves and is fluid, and people change, and all the things. So I think that the best advice that I got, I actually got from Miroslav Volf. Dr. Miroslav Volf, who is a professor at Yale University, and he wrote the book that really kind of got me into, it was my first book that I ever read that was a book of theology, Exclusion&Embrace. And when we went to Croatia, we met with him. We met with him in the city of Zadar on the beach [laughs], literally over lunch. It was just an incredible privilege to sit down with him. And I've had many opportunities to connect with him since, which has been a privilege again, and just a joy.But he said to our group, our little InterVarsity group. And that's not at all to minimize InterVarsity, but we had a real inflated sense of who we were in the world. We thought we were everything, and we thought we were right about everything. And so here we are going through Croatia, which had just experienced a decade and a little bit before, this civil war. And it wasn't really a civil war, it was actually a war of aggression from Serbia into Croatia, and it was horrible. And it turned neighbor against neighbor in the same way that our civil war turned neighbor against neighbor. So literally, these towns, you literally had neighbors killing each other, you just were not safe.So basically, think Rwanda. The same thing that happened in Rwanda, around the same time had happened in Croatia. And so Miroslav is Croatian, and the lines by which things were drawn in Croatia was not race, because everybody was White. So the lines that they drew their hierarchy on was along the lines of religion. It was the Croats, which were mostly Catholic, mostly Christian. Some not Catholic, they might have been Evangelical, but they were Christian. And then you had the Bosniaks, which were Muslim, and the Serbs, which were Orthodox. So that was the hierarchy. And when you had Milošević, who was the president of Yugoslavia, who was trying to keep that Federation together, Yugoslavia was like an amalgamation of what we now understand to be Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia.So he was trying to keep all of that together, and when he then crossed the lines, the boundary between Serbia and Croatia and invaded and just began to kill everybody, and the Serbs then went to his side, and the Croats went over here, and the Bosniaks were caught in the middle, and people just died. And they chose sides and they killed each other. And so we sat down to do lunch with Miroslav Volf, and in that context, interfaith conversation was critical. It was and is, it continues to be. One of the main markers of where you find healing, it's where you find interfaith conversation in Croatia and also Bosnia and Serbia. And so we, in our little Evangelical selves, we're not used to this interfaith thing.We think of that as compromising. We think of that as, “How can you talk to people and gain relationship with and actually sit down and…?” And he was challenging us to study this scripture with other people of other faiths, and study their scriptures. He was like, “Do that.” And so our people were like, “How can you do that and not compromise your faith?” And here's what he said. He said, “It's easy. Respect. It's respect, respecting the image of God in the other, the one who is not like me. That I, when I sit down and I read their scriptures with them, allowing them to tell me what their scriptures mean.” Not sitting in a classroom in my Evangelical church to learn what the Muslim scriptures say, but sitting down with Imams to understand what the Muslim scriptures say and how it's understood within the context of that culture.That's called respect for the image of God. And there's no way, no way for us to knit ourselves together in a society, to live together in the world without respect. That's baseline. That's baseline.Jonathan Walton: As I'm listening, I'm thinking, “Okay, Lisa made choices.” She was like, “We are gonna not just do a trip. We're gonna do a trip in Croatia.” And so as you're going on these trips, as you were having these conversations, you're making choices. There's decisions being made around you, and then you get to the decision making seat. And how that discernment around where to place your energy happens. So something that's at the top of mind for me and many people listening is Palestine.Lisa Sharon Harper: Oh, yeah.Jonathan Walton: So how did you decide at this moment that, “Hey,this is where my energy and time is coming. I'm going to Christ at the Checkpoint. I'm going to talk with Munther. I'm going to be there.”How did that rise to the surface for you?Lisa Sharon Harper: It's funny, because I have, really have been advised, and in the very first days of the conflict, I was advised by some African American leaders, “Don't touch this. Don't do it. You're going to be blacklisted.”Jonathan Walton: I heard the same thing, yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: “Don't do it. You're gonna find you're not invited to speak anywhere.” Da da da da. Sometimes these decisions are just made to say, “I am going to act in the world as if I don't know what the repercussions are, and I'm just going to do the thing, because my focus is not focused on the repercussions.” I mean, in some ways, in that way, I do think that my constitution is the constitution of a warrior. Warriors go to battle knowing that bullets are flying all around them, and they just choose to go forward anyway. Somebody who cared, and not just cared, but I think there's a moment where you begin to understand it's that moment of no turning back. It's the moment when you stand at the freshly buried graves of 5000 Muslim boys and men who were killed all in one day by bullet fire in Srebrenica.It's the moment that you drive through Bosnia and you see all of the graves everywhere. Everywhere, especially in Sarajevo, which experienced a siege, a multiyear siege by Serbia. And they turned the soccer field, which at one point was the focal point of the Sarajevo Olympic Games, they turned that into a graveyard because they ran out of space for the graves. When you roll through Georgia, and you go to Dahlonega, Georgia, and you go to the Mining Museum, which marks the very first gold rush in America, which was not in California, but was in Dahlonega, Georgia, on Cherokee land, and you hear the repercussions of people's silence and also complicity.When they came and they settled, they made a decision about how we should live together, and it did not include, it included the erasure of Cherokee people and Choctaw people and Chickasaw people, Seminole people, Creek people. And you walk that land, and the land tells you. It's so traumatic that the land still tells the story. The land itself tells the story. The land bears witness. When you stand on that land and the land tells you the story, there's a moment that just happens where there's no turning back and you have to bear witness to the truth, even with bullets flying around you. So with regard to Palestine, having done what now goodness, 20 years of research on this biblical concept called shalom, and written the book, The Very Good Gospel, which really lays it out in a systematic way.I would lose my integrity if I was silent in the face of the breaking of shalom, which I learned in Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia, is built on earth through structures. It doesn't just come because people know Jesus. Two thirds of the people in the Bosnian war knew Jesus. Two thirds. The Croats were Christian and the Serbs were Orthodox Christian, and yet they killed each other. I mean, massacred each other. Unfortunately, knowing Jesus is not enough if you have shaped your understanding of Jesus according to the rules and norms of empire. So we actually need international law. We need the instruments of international law. That's what stopped the war there. And they failed there too, but they also have been an intrinsic part of keeping the peace and also prosecuting Milošević. Solike making sure that some measure of justice on this earth happens, some shadow of it.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And what are we told in scripture in Micah 6:8, walk humbly with God. Do justice. Embrace the truth. So I think that when I saw on October 7, the breach of the wall, the breach of the gate and then the massacre at the festival, I grieved. I really grieved. And I was scared, really scared for the nation of Israel, for the people who were there. And I began to ask questions, because I've learned the discipline of not dehumanizing. Because to dehumanize is to break shalom. It's one of the first things that happens in the breaking of shalom and the eradication of it. And so part of what I had to do if I was going to consider Palestinian people human was to ask what has happened to them that would cause them to take such violent and radical action. How did we get here? Is the question.And the narrative that I heard from Israel, from the state of Israel, from the leaders of the state of Israel, which had been marched against by their own people just the week before that, and weeks for like a month or two before that, they were trying to depose the leadership of Israel because they were trying to turn their state into a fascist state. I was watching that as well. Trying to take the power of the judiciary away so that they could increase the power of the Prime Minister. So what does it mean then? What does it mean that this happened? And I was listening to the way that the narrative that Netanyahu was giving and his generals and the narrative they were giving is, “These are monsters. They are terrorists. They are evil. They are intrinsically, they are not human.”And I knew when I saw that, when I heard that, I thought Bosnia. I thought Rwanda, where they called the other cockroaches. I thought South Africa, where they called Black people not human, monsters, who need to be controlled. I thought Native Americans, who were called savages in order to be controlled, in order to have the justification of genocide. I thought of people of African descent who were brought in death ships across the Atlantic to South America and Central America and Mexico and North America in order to be used to build European wealth and they were called non-human. And even according to our own laws, our constitution declared three fifths of a human being.So when I heard Netanyahu and his generals dehumanizing the Palestinians, I knew, that for me was like the first signal, and it happened on the first day. It was the first signal that we are about to witness a genocide. They are preparing us. They are grooming us to participate in genocide. And I, as a theologian, as an ethicist, as a Christian, would lose my credibility if I remained silent and became complicit in that genocide through my silence. Because having studied the genocides that I mentioned earlier and the oppressions that I mentioned earlier, I know that most of those spaces were Christian spaces.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And they happened, those genocides and those oppressions were able to happen because Christians were silent.Jonathan Walton: Gathering all that up, I think… I mean, we've had Munther on this podcast, we've talked with him throughout the years. When he said, “The role of Christians is to be prophetic, to speak prophetic truth to power,” something clicked for me in that as you're talking about our witness being compromised, as you are saying, “Hey, let's ask this question, who does this benefit? What is happening?”Lisa Sharon Harper: That's right.Jonathan Walton: The reality that he said, “All of us are Nathan when it comes to empire. We are supposed to be the ones who say this is wrong.” And that resonates with what you said, like how can I have integrity and be silent? Genocide necessitates silence and complicity in that way from people.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah. And here's the thing. How are you gonna go to church and sing worship songs to Jesus on Sunday and be silent Monday through Saturday witnessing the slaying of the image of God on earth. You hear what I'm saying?Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Lisa Sharon Harper: Like my understanding of shalom now is not just we do these things in order to be nice and so we live together. It is that shalom is intricately connected with the flourishing of the kingdom of God.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Lisa Sharon Harper: It is the flourishing of the kingdom of God.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Lisa Sharon Harper: And the kingdom of God flourishes wherever the image of God flourishes. And the image of God is born by every single human being. And part of what it means to be made in the image of God is that humans who are made in the image of God exercise agency, stewardship of the world. And the most drastic example or practice of warfare against the image of God is war.Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs]. Absolutely.Lisa Sharon Harper: War annihilates the image of God on earth. It is a declaration of war, not only on Palestinians or Gazans or even Israel or the empire anywhere. It is a declaration of war against God. It is a declaration of war against God.Sy Hoekstra: A phrase that has stuck in my head about you was from one of the endorsements to your last book Fortune. Jemar Tisby described you as a long-distance runner for justice.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] That's awesome.Sy Hoekstra: That always struck me as accurate.Jonathan Walton: That is great.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Not a sprinter.Jonathan Walton: No.Sy Hoekstra: Not a sprinter.Lisa Sharon Harper: That was really pretty cool. I was like, “Oh Jemar, thank you.” [laughter]Jonathan Walton: I need that. We just in here. That's great [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So here's the question then, where does your hope and sustenance, how do you get that? Where does it come from?Lisa Sharon Harper: Honestly, it comes from focusing on the kingdom. Focusing on Jesus. Focusing on doing the kingdom of God. And when you do it you witness it. And when you witness it, you get hope. I mean, I've learned, even in the last year, an actual life lesson for me was hope comes in the doing. Hope comes in the doing. So as we do the kingdom, we gain hope. As we show up for the protests so that we confront the powers that are slaying the image of God on earth, we gain hope. As we speak out against it and form our words in ways that do battle with the thinking that lays the groundwork for ethics of erasure, we gain hope because we're doing it. We see the power.The kingdom of God exists wherever there are people who actually bow to the ethic of God. Who do it. Who do the ethic of God. You can't say you believe in Jesus and not actually do his ethic. You don't believe in him. What do you believe? He never said, “Believe stuff about me.” He said, “Follow me.” He literally never said, “Believe stuff about me.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Lisa Sharon Harper: He said, “Follow me. Do what I do. ”And that's ethics. That's the question of, how do we live together in the world?? So we do and we gain hope.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: I like that. That reminds me of Romans 5: There'll be glory in our suffering. Suffering produces perseverance, character, and character hope. It's like, it's not an intuitive thing necessarily, if you haven't done it before. But that's great, and that's a really, I like that a lot as a place for us to end [laughs]. To get out there and do it, and you will find the hope as you go.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: Can you tell us where people can find you or work that you would want people to see of yours?Lisa Sharon Harper: Absolutely. Well, hey, first of all, thank you guys so much for having me on, and it's been really a joy to start my day in conversation with you. Y'all can follow what I'm up to at Lisasharonharper.com. I live on Instagram, and so you can [laughter], you can definitely follow on Instagram and Facebook. And Freedom Road Podcast is a place where a lot of people have found the conversation and are tracking with it. And I'm always trying to have guests on that are pushing me and causing me to ask deeper questions. And so I really, I welcome you to join us on Freedom Road.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. I wholeheartedly second that.Lisa Sharon Harper: And of course, the books [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And of course, the books.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Fortune, Very Good Gospel, all the rest.Lisa Sharon Harper: Yeah, exactly.Sy Hoekstra: Lisa Sharon Harper, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a delight.Jonathan Walton: Thank you so much.Lisa Sharon Harper: Thank you Sy. Thank you, Jonathan.[The intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Jonathan, that was a fantastic discussion. Tell me what you are thinking about coming out of it?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think one, is just it's just really helpful to talk with someone who's been around for a while. I think most of us… I'm 38 years old, but let's just say millennials and younger, we don't consume or receive a lot of long form content.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And we don't also engage with people who are willing and able to mentor us through difficult situations. We're getting sound bites from TikTok and Instagram and YouTube, and we don't get the whole of knowledge or experiences. So listening to Lisa talk about, “I grabbed this bit from L.A., I grabbed this bit from Palestine, I grabbed this bit from Croatia, I grabbed this bit.” We cannot microwave transformation. We cannot have instant growth. There is no, let me go through the side door of growing to maturity in my faithfulness and walk with Jesus.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: There is just doing it. And so when she said, “I find the hope in the doing,” you don't learn that unless you have done stuff. That's a big takeaway. I also appreciated just her take on the genocide in Palestine. And because she was mentored and has talked with Miroslav Volf, she knows what it smells like, because she's done the work in her own history of her own background. If you have not read Fortune, go read the book. The reason Black folks cannot find who we [laughs] come from is because they were enslaved and killed. The reason we cannot find the indigenous and native folks we were related to is because there was genocide. So there's these things.And she goes through that in her book, and to talk about how to wield our stories when we don't have one, or how to wield a story of tragedy to turn it into something transformative, is something I admire, appreciate and hope that I can embody if and when the time comes for myself, when I have collected and grown and have asked similar questions. I'm appreciative of what she had to say. And you know, I know I asked her the question about not burning things down, and so I appreciated that [laughs] answer as well. Like, there's just a lot of wisdom, and I hope that folks listening were able to glean as well.Sy Hoekstra: I totally agree with all that. I think all that was very powerful. And there isn't it… kind of reminds me of when her book we've mentioned a few times, The Very Good Gospel, came out. It came out in 2016, but like I said, when we were talking to her, the stuff that was in that book she had been thinking about for more than a decade at that point. And it was very clear. When I was reading it, I was like, “Oh, this is Lisa's bag—this is what she was talking to us about when we were in college in 2008.”Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: At that camp, but she'd been thinking about it for even longer than that. It was just like, you can tell when something isn't like, “Oh, I had to research this because I was gonna write a book about it, so I had to learn about it.” You know what I mean? You can tell when someone does that versus when someone's been soaking in a subject. It's like marinating in it for 12, 15, years, or whatever it was. She just has a lot of that stuff [laughs]. You know what? I just used the image of marinating and marinating and microwaving are very different things [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes, that is true.Sy Hoekstra: One takes a lot longer.Jonathan Walton: Put a steak in a microwave, see if you enjoy it [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, so I totally agree with all that. I came out of it thinking a lot about how the things that she said thematically kind of connected to some thoughts that I've had, but also just in terms of historical events. Because I told her this after the interview, when I moved to Switzerland in 2001 I was 13, my family moved over there. It was just at the end of the Yugoslavian Civil War, which was what she was talking about Bosnia and Croatia and Serbia. And Switzerland took in a ton of refugees from that war.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So my neighborhood, there was a big apartment complex. I mean, big for Swiss standards, kind of small honestly for American standards. But there's an apartment complex around the corner from my house that they had put a bunch of Bosnian refugees in. And their school was right down the road, the public school. And so my neighborhood in high school was like the kids playing around in the streets and in the playground or whatever were Bosnian refugees. And the combination of the three countries, Serbian, Croatia and Bosnia, used to be one big thing called Yugoslavia, right.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the first two syllables of the word Yugoslavia were in Switzerland, a slur for anyone who was from that country. And there was just a ton of bigotry toward them, basically because they displayed poverty [laughter]. Like they were one of the most visible groups of poor people in Zurich. And again, like Lisa said, this wasn't about racism. Everybody's White. But you're talking about like there were ethnic differences and there was class differences. And people dismissed them for their criminality, or for how the young men would get in fights in bars and on the streets or whatever, and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know how a lot of refugees from the Somalian war ended up in Minneapolis and St Paul, just like where a lot of them were placed in the US, and then a lot of them moved into North Dakota.It's like, a lot of… which is where my family's from. I've been there a lot. I hear a lot of people talking about the politics in that region. And you would hear similar stuff about them, except that it was about race. That it was, “Oh, we have crime now because we have Black people and we haven't before.” I mean, obviously Minneapolis, they did, but not really in the parts of North Dakota that my family's from. And so it was this lesson for me about the thing that Lisa was talking about, respect for the image of God in all people and how when you bring people who are somehow differentiable [laughter] from you, somebody who's from another grid, you can call them a different class, a different race, whatever, we will find any excuse to just say, “Oh, these are just bad people,” instead of taking responsibility for them, loving our neighbor, doing any of the stuff that we were commanded to do by Jesus, to the stranger, the foreigner, the immigrant in our midst.We will find whatever dividing lines we can to write people off. It can be race, it can be poverty, it can be, it doesn't matter. It's not what we should actually be saying about poverty or violence, or the fact that people are getting mugged or whatever. What we should be saying is we have a bunch of people who just got here from a war torn society. They were cut off from education and job skills and opportunities and all kinds of other things. And this is, when you just stick them in a society that treats them like garbage, this is what happens every single time, without fail. And so what we need to do is [laughter] be good neighbors.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Treat people well and forgive when people wrong us and that sort of thing. And we just will find any excuse in the world not to do that. And it's because we are not starting from that place that Miroslav Volf, who I love by the way, said to Lisa, is the place where you have to start everything when it comes to these kinds of conflicts, which is respect for the image of God in other people. The fact that they didn't do that in Yugoslavia led to slaughter en masse, but it still happens when you leave and you put yourself in a different context. There's still that lack of respect, and it's still harming people, even when there's quote- unquote, peace.Jonathan Walton: This opens up another can of worms. But I thought to myself…Sy Hoekstra: Go for it.Jonathan Walton: …it's much easier to say, “I just don't want to help,” than it is to say, “This person's evil,” or, “These people are bad.” Because I think at the core of it, someone says, “Is this your neighbor?” Jesus says, “Is this your neighbor?” And the Jewish leader of the day does not want to help the Samaritan, whatever the reasoning is. Right?Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: We're trying to justify our innate desire to not help our neighbor. As opposed to just dealing with the reality that many of us, when we see people who are broken and messed up, quote- unquote broken, quote- unquote messed up, quote- unquote on the opposite side of whatever power dynamic or oppressive structure that is set up or has just made, quote- unquote poor choices, some of us, our gut reaction is, I don't want to help them. And if we would just, I think just stop there, be like, “My first inclination is, I'm not interested in helping them.” And paused it there and reflected on why we don't want to do that internally, as opposed to turning towards them and making them the reason. Because they were just sitting there.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: The person on the street who's experiencing homelessness was just sitting there. The one in 10 students in New York City that is homeless is just sitting there. They're just there. And so if we were able to slow down for a second and say, “Why don't I want this person to live in my neighborhood, in my own stuff? Well, I don't like change. I'm afraid of this being different. I'm uncomfortable with different foods. I'm afraid of my favorite coffee shop or restaurant being taken away. I'm uncomfortable around people of different faiths. I feel weird when I don't hear my language being spoken.” If we were able to turn those reflections inward before we had uncomfortable feelings, turned them into actions, and then justified those actions with theology that has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus, then I wonder what would be different. But that that slowing down is really hard, because it's easier to feel the feeling, react, and then justify my reaction with a divine mandate.Sy Hoekstra: Or just plug those feelings into stereotypes and all of the existing ways of thinking about people that we provide for each other so that we can avoid doing that very reflection.Jonathan Walton: That's all that I thought about there [laughs]. I'm going to be thinking about that for a while actually. So Sy, which tab is still open for you? We're going to talk about a segment where we dive a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. And remember, you can get this newsletter for free just by signing up for our mailing list at KTFPress.com. You'll get recommendations on articles, podcasts and other media that both of us have found that will help you in your political education and discipleship. Plus you'll get reflections to keep us grounded, from me and Sy that help keep us grounded every week as we engage in just this challenging work and together in the news about what's happening and all that.You can get everything I'm just talking about at KTFPress.com and more. So go get that free subscription at KTFPress.com. So Sy, want to summarize that main story point for us?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I mean, this is interesting, because when I wrote about this, which is the story about Haitian immigrants in Ohio, it was two days after the debate, and the story has only exploded since then, and I think a lot of people kind of probably have the gist of it already. But some completely unfounded rumors based on fourth hand nonsense and some blurry pictures of people that have nothing whatsoever to do with Haitian immigrants started spreading online among right wing conspiracy theorists saying, for some reason, that Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio were eating pets.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Stealing, kidnapping and eating the resident's pets.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And the absurdity of this story was immediately apparent to me being someone who married into a Haitian immigrant family, Haitians do not eat cats and dogs [laughs]. It's a ridiculous thing to have to say, but I say it because I understand, maybe you have no, maybe you know nothing whatsoever about Haiti and you think, “Well, I don't know. There are some cultures around the world where they eat animals that we think of as pets or that we don't think of as food or whatever.” And like, okay, fine, that's true. It's not Haiti, though.Jonathan Walton: Right [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: The idea of eating a cat or a dog to a Haitian is as weird to them as it is to us. I promise you, I've had so much Haitian food [laughter]. So basically this rumor spread, Donald Trump mentions that the debates and now there are Proud Boys in Springfield, Ohio, marching around with cat posters and memes. There are people calling in bomb threats to schools and to government buildings, to all other institutions in Springfield. The Haitian population is very afraid of Donald Trump. At this point, we're recording this on Friday, September 20, he has said that he will travel to Springfield, and basically everyone there has said, “Please do not do that. You're only going to stoke more problems.”And every last piece of evidence that has been offered as evidence, which was always pretty weak in the first place, has been debunked at this point. There was one, the Vance campaign just recent, the past couple days, gave a police report to the Washington Post and said, “See, we found it. Here's a woman who actually filed a police report that says that my Haitian neighbors took my cat and ate my cat.” And the Washington Post did what, for some reason Republicans never expect journalists to do, and actually did their job and called up the woman who said, “Oh, yeah, I filed that report, and then I found my cat in my basement, and they were fine.” [laughs]Jonathan Walton: Yes. In her house.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. And so I don't know, there have been a couple of blips like that where somebody is like, “See, I found evidence,” and then someone was immediately like, “That's not actually evidence.” There have been rumors of other rallies or whatever. It's basically just becoming a focal point and a meme for all of Trump and his supporters, immigration resentment.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: There was a story today about people in Alabama being concerned about, some small town in Alabama being concerned about becoming the next Springfield because they had 60 Haitian immigrants in their town of 12,000 people [laughs]. I don't know. It's all just bizarre. The main actual point though, around the actual immigration policy stuff, Gabrielle and a few other people, my wife's name is Gabrielle, and a few other Haitians that I've seen comment on this, keep bringing up the Toni Morrison quote about how racism is a distraction from actual issues.Jonathan Walton: That is literally what I was gonna read.Sy Hoekstra: There you go. Okay [laughs]. So the actual issue here is that there's this community of about 60,000 people in Ohio that has had an influx of about 15,000 Haitian immigrants, and so it's a lot of strain on the schools and housing and stuff like that, which those are real questions. But also, the Haitian immigrants are there because the local economy revitalization efforts led to a bunch of manufacturers coming into Springfield and having more jobs than laborers, and explicitly saying, “We need you to bring in more laborers.” And so they were Haitian immigrants who are legally in the country [laughs], who have social security numbers and temporary protected status at the very least if not green cards or whatever, have been filling these jobs, and not remotely even a majority of these jobs.They're just filling in the extra 10, 15 percent or whatever the workforce that these manufacturers thought they needed. And the story has become, “Haitians are taking our jobs,” which is absolute nonsense.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So those are the main points of the story. Sorry, I talked a while. I have a lot of feelings about this one [laughs].Jonathan Walton: No, I mean…Sy Hoekstra: But Jonathan, what are your thoughts?Jonathan Walton: For a good reason. Let me just say this quote by Toni Morrison, “The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining over and over again your reason for being. Somebody says your head isn't shaped properly, and you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Somebody says you have no art, so you dredge that up. Somebody says you have no kingdoms, so you dredge that up. None of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.” So along with that Toni Morrison quote, I want to put that side by side with this quote from Robert Jones Jr.'s National Book of the Year, The Prophets.“To survive this place, you had to want to die. That was the way of the world as remade by the Toubab.” Toubab is a Western and Central African word for colonizer, European. “They push people into the mud and then call them filthy. They forbade people from accessing knowledge of the world, and then called them simple. They worked people until their empty hands were twisted and bleeding and can do no more, than they called them lazy. They forced people to eat innards from troughs, and then called them uncivilized. They kidnapped babies and shattered families and then called them incapable of love. They raped and lynched and cut up people into parts and called the pieces savages. They stepped on people's throats with all of their might and asked why the people couldn't breathe.”“And then when people made an attempt to break the foot or cut it off one they screamed, “Chaos,” and claimed that mass murder was the only way to restore order. They praised every daisy and then called every blackberry a stain. They bled the color from God's face, gave it a dangle between its legs, and called it holy. Then when they were done breaking things, they pointed to the sky and called the color of the universe itself a sin, [black]. And then the whole world believed them, even some of Samuel's [or Black] people. Especially some of Samuel's people. This was untoward and made it hard to open your heart to feel a sense of loyalty that wasn't a strategy. It was easier to just seal yourself up and rock yourself to sleep.”That to me, like those two quotes together. So the Son of Baldwin, Robert Jones Jr, great follow on Substack and that quote from Toni Morrison, an iconic Black female writer, wrote Beloved, The Bluest Eye, those two things together, like what racism does to a person. The giving up, the I just, “What can I do?” and the distraction for the people who do have effort, are just two roads that I wish we just didn't have to go down. But most people will spend our energy either resigned because we've spent too much or pushing against the lie as the powers that be continue to carry out genocide, continue to extract limestone from Haiti, continues to extract resources from Haiti, continue to destroy African economies through extraction in the Congo and Benin and all the places.And so my prayer and longing is that the resilience of the Haitian people and the legacy of Toussaint and all of that would be present in the people that are there and the diaspora. And I believe that is true. And I pray for safety for all of the people that still have to live in this, what is fastly becoming a sundown town.Sy Hoekstra: Right.Jonathan Walton: It's a very real thing. And I talked to someone else. Oh, actually [laughs], it was a DM on Instagram that I sent to Brandy, and she agreed that there's a lot of PTSD from when Trump was president, because things like this got said every day.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: All the time. And downstream of rhetoric are real actions, like lawyers and taxi drivers being mobilized to go to the airport to try and get the, quote- unquote, Muslim banned people now representation and get them to their destinations. You had very real terrible child separation that happened, that children are still separated from their families right now. And so downstream of all this stuff, are real, real concrete actions. And I am praying that… my daughter asked me this morning, Maya, she said, “Do I want Trump to win, or do I want Harris to win?” And I said, “Maya, I hope that Trump does not win.” She goes “Well, if Harris wins, will it be better?”I said, “It depends on who you ask, but I think there will be a better chance for us to move towards something more helpful if Trump does not win.” And then she said she knew some people who are supportive of Trump, and I told her things that her eight year old brain cannot handle.Sy Hoekstra: But wait, what does that mean? [laughs]Jonathan Walton: I just started breaking down why that is because I couldn't help myself.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, why people support him.Jonathan Walton: Why people would support him.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, okay.Jonathan Walton: And then she quickly pivoted back to Story Pirates, which is a wonderful podcast about professional improvisational actors telling kid stories like Cecily Strong and things like that. It's hilarious. But all that to say, I think this is a prime example of the type of chaos and environment that is created when someone like Trump is president and the cameras are on him at all times. And I hope that is not the reality, because he absolutely does not have any meaningful policy positions besides Project 2025. I don't know if you saw… I'm talking a lot. He was in a town hall in Michigan, and someone asked him what his child care policies were. Like what actionable policy does he have? And he said a word salad and a buffet of dictionaries that you don't know what he was talking about.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It was nonsense that somehow ended up with immigration being a problem.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so I think that the worst factions of our country will have a vehicle to live out their worst fantasies about deportations and violence and racism, White supremacy and patriarchy and all those things, if he becomes president. And that's really sad to me, and I think it's a preview of that is what's happening in Springfield right now.Sy Hoekstra: Here's another angle on this. And it fits into everything you just said, but it's just from a different angle, bringing a little bit of Haitian history here. The Haitian Revolution is probably, I can't say that I've read everything to guarantee this, is probably the greatest act of defiance against White supremacy that the world has ever seen. For those who don't know, it happened right after the American Revolution, it was just the enslaved people of the island of Saint-Domingue, which is now Haiti in the Dominican Republic, rising up and overthrowing the French and taking the island for themselves and establishing, like writing the world's second written constitution and establishing basically the world's second democracy.Really the world's first actual democracy [laughs] if you think about how American democracy was restricted to a very small group of people. If you read things that people in colonial governments or slave owners throughout the Western Hemisphere wrote and like when they spoke to each other about their fears over the next decades before slavery is abolished, Haiti is constantly on their minds.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: They never stop talking about it. It's actually mentioned in some of the declarations of secession before the Civil War. When the states wrote why they were seceding, it was like, “Because the Union wants Haiti to happen to us.” For the plantation owners to be killed. It was an obsession, and so the colonial powers in Europe, you may have read some of the work that the New York Times did in the New York Times Magazine last year, maybe it was two years ago, about this. But the amount of energy from European powers that went into making sure that Haiti as a country never had access to global markets or the global economy, that they were constantly impoverished.They were still finding ways to extract money from Haiti, even though it was an independent country. The fact that the US colonized Haiti for almost 20 years in the early 20th century, like the ways that we have controlled who is in power in their government from afar. We've propped up some of the most brutal dictators in the history of the world, honestly. We have been punishing and making sure that everybody knows that the defiance of white supremacy that Haiti showed will never be tolerated.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And so it is so easy for Haitians at every stage to become a scapegoat for whatever anxiety we have about the world becoming less White, the world becoming less of like under our control. Haitian immigrants were the reason that we started using Guantanamo Bay as a prison. They were the first people that we ever imprisoned there. We changed our policies, we like… Do you know for a long time, they wouldn't let Haitian people donate blood in America?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Because we said they'd had HIV. They had dirty blood, is what we said about them for years. Haiti is not at the bottom because of its choice. That's what we're constantly telling ourselves. Pat Robertson went on his show after the earthquake in 2010, and said the reason that these things still happen to Haiti is because they did Voodoo before their revolution, because they're pagans or whatever. We will make up any reason to not just take responsibility. Again, like with the Bosnians, the Somalis, we make up any reason to not just take responsibility for our actions.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And this is just a continuation of that. And I don't know that I have a further point beyond that, other than to say, everything that Trump and Vance and the Proud Boys and all of them are doing in Springfield right now is just a continuation of that. “You're immigrants that we will call illegal, even though you're not right and you are Black. Your whole pride in your culture and your history is about the way that you defied White supremacy, and you're foreign to us, and you are strange. And we will say that you do things like eat cats that you don't do, and we will just believe it, because we don't actually want to know anything about you other than that you are a monster who defies the way that the world should be ordered.”Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: I'm trying to stop myself from tearing up right now, and I don't know that I have points beyond this. Do you know what I mean? I'm just angry because this is like people, this is my wife and my daughter. I'm probably just taking time now to do what I should have done earlier in this process, which is just feel all the sadness and the anger. But that is what I feel. The Trump and Vance and the people that are a part of his movement are just horrifying. The fruit of their way of seeing the world is just evil, and I think that's where I'm leaving it for now [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. And the very thing that Haitian people are called, evil, voodoo all those things, is what White supremacy is.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: That is evil, and that is wicked, and it has been at work for centuries. And in Jesus name, as Connie Anderson would pray in the work she does with White people around White supremacy and leaving that behind, and she says she just prays that it would be overthrown. That demonic power would be overthrown, and people would be disobedient to that leaning.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And I pray the same would be true for many, many people before and after the polls close on November the 5th.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. So in the newsletter, I put an email address where you could send a PayPal donation to the local Haitian community center. We'll have a link to that in the show notes too. The Haitians on the ground, especially some of the pastors and the churches there, are doing some incredible work to try and keep the peace. I think people have been overlooking that. There was a decent Christianity Today article on kind of what's going on the ground in Ohio, but it really focused on what the local White churches are doing to help [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I really need people to focus on the Haitians, like what is actually happening there, and the fact that there are White supremacists marching around the town. And how terrifying that has to be for them, and how the people who are doing the work to keep the peace there are heroic, and they should not have to be. And they deserve all of our support and all our prayers. So I appreciate anything that you can, any intercession that you can do, any money that you can give. Any support that you can be. Any help that you can be just spreading the truth to people who may not be wanting to hear it or who might not be hearing it from their news sources right now,Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: We're gonna end there, then. Thank you so much for listening. Please remember to go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber and support everything we're doing, the media that we're making here. Get the bonus episodes to this show, come to our monthly Zoom calls to have a chat with me and Jonathan about everything that's going on in the election. Bring us your questions, get access to comments on our posts and more pl

This week we look at Paul talk about how Jew and Gentile together in the church is the manifold wisdom of God. We spend a lot of time looking at the implications of the Gospel in this sermon. 

Krista Bontrager, author of “Walking in Unity: Biblical Answers to Questions on Race and Racism,” talks about racial reconciliation from a biblical perspective.

Latasha Morrison is a speaker, author, reconciler, bridge-builder and leader, committed to educate people on cultural intelligence and racial literacy. She's the author of Be the Bridge and the recently released Brown Faces, White Spaces. In this podcast conversation, Latasha tells us how she got into the space of racial reconciliation, the challenges she's faced, the power of listening, and how people can pursue great racial literacy in our polarized world around this topic. Register for the Austin conference on sexualtiy (Sept 17-18) here: https://www.centerforfaith.com/programs/leadership-forums/faith-sexuality-and-gender-conference-live-in-austin-or-stream-online Register for the Exiles 2 day conference in Denver (Oct 4-5) here: https://theologyintheraw.com/exiles-denver/  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do we believe in redemption?  That's the question Latasha Morrison, author and founder of Be the Bridge, encourages listeners to consider. On this episode, Morrison and Moore discuss the issues of race, culture, and history's impact on the present. They talk about what it's like to listen, lament, and act on behalf of the oppressed—surrendering our work to the Lord as we walk the path of justice, righteousness, and reconciliation. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration by Latasha Morrison Be the Bridge: Pursuing God's Heart for Racial Reconciliation by Latasha Morrison Be the Bridge Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes: Removing Cultural Blinders to Better Understand the Bible by E. Randolph Richards and Richard James Misreading Scripture with Individualist Eyes: Patronage, Honor, and Shame in the Biblical World by E. Randolph Richards and Richard James Jemar Tisby “Meet 115 Changemakers Working With Facebook To Bring The World Together” Ruby Bridges Goes to School: My True Story by Ruby Bridges Ta-Nehisi Coates  Do you have a question for Russell Moore? Send it to questions@russellmoore.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Pastors Anthony & Dawn Baldwin Gibson set out to plant a church, they had no idea they would be feeding thousands, helping to heal a community, and building a school. Not only have they built community partnerships in their local area, but they also help other smaller churches identify needs, mobilize volunteers, and find resources they need to serve their communities. Listen in as Dr. Gibson shares their church story of: Transforming Lives,Strengthening Families, andIntentionally Impacting CommunitiesGet your free ticket to the Married to the Pastor Conference >> www.smallchurchsummits.com/ps2024Connect with Dr. Dawn Baldwin Gibson:www.peletahministries.comRate, Review, & Follow Laurie on Apple Podcasts"I love Laurie and The Small Church Ministry Podcast!!" > www.smallchurchsummits.com/ps2024Follow Us:Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smallchurchministry/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/smallchurchministryCreative Solutions for Small Churches Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallchurchministrySmall Church Network: https://smallchurchministry.com/membership/

Sermon preached by guest Dr. Reginald Gundy at Hendricks Avenue Baptist Church on Sunday, June 23, 2024.

Engaging in conversations and education around race can be crucial for our witness to the Kingdom. Rev. John Moreland, director of Denver...

This week, we share a "Space for God: BIBLE" reflection offered by Adam Taylor (President of Sojourners).  Adam opens up 1 Corinthians 12 as a text that can help us heal the body of Christ despite the challenges currently facing the church in America, especially the sickness of toxic polarization.Check Out Adam's Recent Book: A More Perfect Union: A New Vision for Building the Beloved CommunityView Our Complete Archive of “Space for God” Prayer PracticesLearn More About Spiritual Direction through Coracleinthecoracle.org  |  @inthecoracleSupport the Show.

In this episode, Dr. Eric Bryant interviewed my friend and former Gatewayer Latasha Morrison, founder of Be the Bridge which exists to "empower people and culture toward racial healing, equity and reconciliation." She is the author of Be the Bridge: Pursuing God's Heart for Racial Reconciliation and her new book Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration. THE POST-CHRISTIAN PODCAST AND GIVEAWAYS: Our goal with The Post-Christian Podcast is to reframe, simplify, and focus on our mission to make disciples in a post Christian culture. We discuss reaching new people and raising up leaders while removing the barriers of churchianity. Be sure to sign up for Eric's email newsletter at www.ericbryant.org for a chance to win future book giveaways and assessments! Subscribe, Rate, and Review The Post-Christian Podcast at Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.com/@ericbryant777. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/eric-bryant1/support

The Rev. Miguel Bustos Manager for Racial Reconciliation and Justice, The Episcopal Church

In this episode, Brenda Salter McNeil discusses the long-term work required for Christians to repair broken systems and heal communities. Brenda shares about her journey into racial reconciliation work and how she came to see reconciliation and reparations as two sides of the same coin. We talk about the importance of listening to understand issues of those most affected, getting proximate to communities through relationships, and organizing diverse coalitions to identify shared concerns rather than coming with outside solutions. Brenda emphasizes staying committed to this work through practices like lament as well as self-care to prevent burnout. Our hope is for the church to reimagine what it means to follow Jesus by embodying his call to justice, flourishing for all people, and representing the kingdom vision of every tribe and nation together as God's people on earth. Join us as we discover how to repair broken systems and mend communities. Rev. Dr. Brenda Salter McNeil is a dynamic speaker, teacher, author and reconciliation leader! She is a trailblazer, who is thoroughly loving and rigorously prophetic. Her mission is to inspire and empower emerging Christian leaders to be practitioners of reconciliation in their various spheres of influence. As an Associate Professor of Reconciliation Studies in the School of Theology at Seattle Pacific University, Dr. Salter McNeil directs the Reconciliation Studies program that prepares students to engage the culture around them as Christian reconcilers. Brenda's latest book is Empowered to Repair. Brenda's Book:Empowered to RepairBrenda's Recommendation:Prophetic Lament by Soong Chan RahJoin Our Patreon for Early Access and More: PatreonConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Threads at www.facebook.com/shiftingculturepodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/shiftingculturepodcast/https://twitter.com/shiftingcultur2https://www.threads.net/@shiftingculturepodcasthttps://www.youtube.com/@shiftingculturepodcastCoSend us a Text Message. Support the Show.

Kansas City Chiefs Kicker, Harrison Butker, recently gave a controversial commencement address at Benedictine College where he drew on some popular conservative talking points about Pride Month, Covid 19 policies, and the calling of women in the home. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the problems they had with the speech, as well as their frustrations with some of the criticism of the speech, and how Butker's views seem to have been influenced more by conservative politics than the historic Catholic position on these issues. Then, Kaitlyn sits down with Latasha Morrison to talk about her new book, "Brown Faces, White Spaces." They discuss the importance of understanding historical context to grasp the roots and impacts of systemic racism, and practical ways that churches and individuals can engage in the work of racial reconciliation. Plus, a megachurch in Texas tried to manipulate a traffic study for a stop light, and Phil thinks he has proof that News of the Butt is the best part of the podcast.   Holy Post Plus   0:00 - Intro   1:29 - Show Starts   2:26 - Theme Song   2:47 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 35% off your first order of Sundays. Go to www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout.   4:00 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get 15% off your first order by going to https://www.blueland.com/HOLYPOST   5:11 - Megachurch Manipulates Stoplight Placement 10:49 - News of the Butt Supporters Speak Out   13:35 - Harrison Butker   23:00 - Why Did Butker's Speech Get So Much Attention?   29:31 - Pope Francis Says Conservatives Have “Suicidal” Mindset   37:12 - Is the Media More Spiritually Formative Than the Pope?   44:15 - Sponsor - Better Help - Get 10% off your first month at www.betterhelp.com/holypost   45:11 - Sponsor - Go to https://www.songfinch.com/HOLYPOST and start your original song!   46:40 - Interview   48:20 - What is “Be the Bridge?”   55:37 - Understanding Historical Context in Discussing Racial Divide   59:02 - Why She Combined Personal History, Data, and the Bible in “Be the Bridge”   1:03:40 - How Scripture Informs Justice   1:14:14 - Jesus, the Suffering Servant   1:19:53 - Maintaining Hope for Restoration   1:24:48 - End Credits Links Mentioned in the News Segment:   Texas Megachurch Hits the Brakes After Trying to Skew a Traffic Study: https://religionnews.com/2024/05/14/a-texas-megachurch-tried-to-fudge-a-traffic-study-to-get-a-new-light-it-did-not-end-well-josh-howerton-lakepointe-church/   Benedictine Sisters of Mount St. Scholastica Rebut Harrison Butker as No One Else Could: https://www.yahoo.com/news/benedictine-sisters-mount-st-scholastica-100700734.html?   Pope Francis says U.S. Conservatives Have a “Suicidal Attitude”: https://www.axios.com/2024/05/20/pope-francis-60-minutes-interview-takeaways   Other resources: Be the Bridge: Pursuing God's Heart for Racial Reconciliation: https://a.co/d/eZLQFB6   Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration: https://a.co/d/bERMEXN   Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/ Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop   The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.  

Dr. Frank Anderson joins us on this National Day of Prayer to discuss the importance of prayer in times of darkness, difficulty and discouraging times. Dr. Anderson is the Stephen Olford Chair of Expository Preaching & Associate Professor of Ministry and Missions at Union University in Jackson, TN. He is also Director at the Center for Racial Reconciliation.

Markus and Antwuan have a candid conversation about Markus' trip to Montgomery Alabama with other leaders in racial justice. Antwuan shares the powerful experience of an intercultural worship service.  Plus, they delve into what it means to be a disciple of Christ - if we are supposed to love those whom God loves, why don't we? _____________________________Podcast Subscription LinksApple Podcast: coloredcommentary.com/appleSpotify: coloredcommentary.com/spotifyGoogle Podcasts: coloredcommentary.com/googleStitcher: coloredcommentary.com/stitcherIHeart Radio: coloredcommentary.com/iheartradio

This week, we share the second installment of Coracle's 2024 "Justice, Mercy & Humility" Soundings Seminar Series.  This series explores the continuing relevance of Micah 6:8's exhortation to “act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God.”  In this week's conversation, Bill Haley is joined by the co-chairs of the Coracle Board, Rev. Dr. Kendrick Curry and Rich Dean, to explore the deep biblical foundations of the pursuit of Justice and mercy in humility. They also unpack some of the areas where the church has fallen short of holding these three pursuits together, and they candidly discuss what steps are needed to bring healing and reconciliation.View Our Full Archive of Soundings Seminarsinthecoracle.org  |  @inthecoracleSupport the show

Wisdom from Athanasius helps us understand Ephesians 2, and C.S. Lewis reminds us of the value of the old books.

On February 8, 2024, historian Marvin T. Chiles discussed the subject of his new book The Struggle to Change: Race and the Politics of Reconciliation in Modern Richmond. Much is known about the City of Richmond's troubled past with race and race relations. Richmond was one of the largest entrepot for the transatlantic slave trade, the capital of the Confederacy, a foundational city for Jim Crow segregation, the sacred home of Confederate memorialization, and the hotbed of Massive Resistance to school desegregation. Less talked about, however, is that Richmond was a national leader in racial reconciliation efforts after the civil rights movement of the 1960s. Residents, business leaders, and public history organizations spent the last three decades of the twentieth century seeking to fix Richmond's economy and public history scene to overcome its reputation and reality of racial strife, a conundrum created by the city's troubled history. Yet, Richmond's reconciliation movement unintendedly exacerbated the vestiges of past discrimination, that being racial gaps in wealth building, housing stability, and educational achievement. This lecture, based on The Struggle for Change, implores Richmonders and those interested in urban affairs, race relations, and southern history to not see current racial disparities as a continuum of past discrimination. Rather, Richmond's recent history shows that progressive actions and actors exacerbated systemic issues through making positive changes in their city, the South, and nation. Dr. Marvin T. Chiles is the Assistant Professor of African American History at Old Dominion University. The Struggle for Change is his first book. He has also published several articles, including “A Period of Misunderstanding: Reforming Jim Crow in Richmond, Virginia, 1930–1954,” which won the William M. E. Rachal Award from the Virginia Museum of History & Culture in 2021.

In this conversation, Dr. George Yancey discusses the issues of racial injustice and division. Why should we as Christians care about matters of race, and how can Christians respond to divisions based on race? Dr. Yancey proposes a unifying, deeply Christian solution of collaborative conversations to move beyond color blindness and anti-racism, toward reconciliation.Thanks for listening!Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Youtube.To learn more about our summer programs visit:https://www.regent-college.edu/summerSubscribe to our newsletter to hear all about Regent College:https://www.regent-college.edu/about-us/subscribe

This week, we share the first installment of Coracle's 2024 "Justice, Mercy & Humility" Soundings Seminar Series.  This series explores the continuing relevance of Micah 6:8's exhortation to “act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.”  In this conversation, Kristy Wallace-Grant (Repentance Project Director) leads us in a discussion with Jim Emrich (Founder of Servant Leaders Associates).  They dip into the lives of a diverse array of Christians who have over the years embodied a Micah 6:8 vision of the Christian life: Mary McLeod Bethune, Howard Thurman, Myles Horton, Rosa Parks, Clarence Jordan, and more.  We hope the lives and stories they share will spur you on to love and a deeper walk with God in the world!View Our Full Archive of Soundings Seminarsinthecoracle.org  |  @inthecoracleSupport the show

In this special episode, the Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining joins a panel on the Episcopal Church's popular podcast, "Prophetic Voices: Preaching and Teaching Beloved Community". In this episode of Prophetic Voices, we'll be discussing the lectionary for Maundy Thursday. The texts covered in this episode are Exodus 12:1-4, (5-10), 11-14 and John 13:1-7, 31b-35. Our amazing guests this week are:    • The Rev. Canon Anna E. Rossi, canon precentor and director of interfaith engagement at Grace Cathedral, San Francisco. In this role, she stewards the community's liturgical and sacramental life, diocesan festivals, and occasions that gather community across confessional lines.    • The thoughtful Melinda Garza Moran, vicar for St. Mark's Lutheran Church in Sioux Falls, S.D., and a Master of Divinity student at Luther Seminary. She is seeking ordination in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) for Word and Sacrament. She is a mom, a nani, and a passionate Latina. She enjoys working with diverse communities and is committed to social justice and racial reconciliation.    • The Rev. Dr. Hillary Raining, rector of St. Christopher's Church in Gladwyne, Penn., and creator of The Hive online spirituality and wellness digital community. Hillary is a beekeeper, yoga and meditation instructor, and a forest therapist.    Prophetic Voices is hosted by the Rev. Isaiah “Shaneequa” Brokenleg, The Episcopal Church's staff officer for Racial Reconciliation. For more information on Becoming Beloved Community, visit iam.ec/becomingbelovedcommunity. --- Support the Hive by becoming a Patreon member. Subscribe to the Hive's email newsletter for more great content. Join the Hive's Facebook Group. Follow the Hive on Instagram:  @thehiveapiary Get in touch: thehiveapiary@gmail.com  Visit our website: thehiveapiary.com

Racial Reconciliation Pt.2 | Pastor David Shearin by Word of Life LV

Racial Reconciliation | Pastor David Shearin by Word of Life LV

“And then the beginnings of Unbound began!!”Get ready for this exciting second part of Neal and Janet's story about the beginnings of Unbound. Hear how God used a prophetic word spoken over Neal to help him find someone's name in his Rolodex!Neal shares of the exciting 30-Day Renewal and Reconciliation event that brought people from various ethnicities, cultures, and denominations together. Janet expounds, saying, “This is what the church is supposed to be!”Hearing more teachings on deliverance helps Neal refine the pattern of prayer he had already been developing when ministering to people.From there, we go to Poland where Neal leads a conference and sees extraordinary results when applying this specific prayer pattern. Neal receives prophetic words about being a father to people, even to the soles of his sandals!Upon return to the States, Neal hears the same question from two different sources, “When are you going to write your book?” Neal describes what he pictured as he wrote and prayed.You won't want to miss this second episode celebrating the Platinum Anniversary of Unbound!Meet us in Austin Join us at one of our other Freedom in Christ conferences in 2024Check out Unbound and find other resourcesRelease: January 2024Music by Christian HarperArtwork by Rosemary Strohm

This week, we welcome our dear friend and Pastor Q's “twin brother,” Pastor Monté Dillard. Pastor Monté is the Senior Pastor of the First Church of God Christian Life Center in Evanston, IL – near Chicago, and is without a doubt one of the most influential leaders in his community. We discussed racial reconciliation, diversity, and what it looks like to reach across cultural lines with empathy, understanding, and hope. Our hope is that you take on a posture of learning, with an open heart & open mind as you listen to this conversation in full.DOWNLOAD SHOW NOTESLISTEN & SUBSCRIBEIf you haven't yet, make sure to tap subscribe on your favorite podcast platform — Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and more. We release NEW episodes on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of every month. Turn on your notifications and you'll be the first to know when new content drops.LEAVE A REVIEWIf you love the show, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a 5-Star Review! This is one of the best ways to help other people find us and join the JUST LEAD community.

Monday, as we remember the work of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., you'll hear a conversation from four years ago about how to achieve racial reconciliation. Pastor and author Dhati Lewis says the way forward for the church today is found in a small book of the New Testament. Are you an "aggravator" or an "advocate" on the narrow path to racial reconciliation? Don't miss Chris Fabry Live.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today we remember Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.—we remember his dream, the progress for Civil Rights that he helped make possible, and we remember the tension he held between hope and reality. You may know him best for his “I have a dream” speech, but did you know he also said, “The dream had turned somewhat into a nightmare.”? My friend Latasha Morrison, bridge-builder and racial reconciler, is joining us to talk about how far we've come and how far we have yet to go— the hope and the nightmare we still see today.  I believe this conversation is more important now that it was in 2020. Latasha helps us pull back the curtain on race in America over the last four years.  You ready to jump in? We've got work to do. . . . . . Find Latasha here: https://latashamorrison.com/ Learn more about Be the Bridge here: https://bethebridge.com/podcast/ Buy Latasha's book Be the Bridge: Pursuing God's Heart for Racial Reconciliation here: https://amzn.to/3NXzBli  . . . . . Purchase your copy of my new book, How to Human, HERE: https://bit.ly/HowtoHumanNotes Let's keep in touch! Sign up for my newsletter to be the first to hear ALL my updates: https://bit.ly/MasFamiliaNotes Interested in advertising with us? Reach out here. . . . . . BITE TOOTHPASTE: Head to trybite.com/HUMANHOPE to get 20% off your first order or use promo code HUMANHOPE. HIYA HEALTH: Receive 50% off your first order at hiyahealth.com/HUMANHOPE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we remember Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.—we remember his dream, the progress for Civil Rights that he helped make possible, and we remember the tension he held between hope and reality. You may know him best for his “I have a dream” speech, but did you know he also said, “The dream had turned somewhat into a nightmare.”? My friend Latasha Morrison, bridge-builder and racial reconciler, is joining us to talk about how far we've come and how far we have yet to go— the hope and the nightmare we still see today.  I believe this conversation is more important now that it was in 2020. Latasha helps us pull back the curtain on race in America over the last four years.  You ready to jump in? We've got work to do. . . . . . Find Latasha here: https://latashamorrison.com/ Learn more about Be the Bridge here: https://bethebridge.com/podcast/ Buy Latasha's book Be the Bridge: Pursuing God's Heart for Racial Reconciliation here: https://amzn.to/3NXzBli  . . . . . Purchase your copy of my new book, How to Human, HERE: https://bit.ly/HowtoHumanNotes Let's keep in touch! Sign up for my newsletter to be the first to hear ALL my updates: https://bit.ly/MasFamiliaNotes Interested in advertising with us? Reach out here. . . . . . BITE TOOTHPASTE: Head to trybite.com/HUMANHOPE to get 20% off your first order or use promo code HUMANHOPE. HIYA HEALTH: Receive 50% off your first order at hiyahealth.com/HUMANHOPE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jesus Christ can make us more than the worst we've ever done

The book of Galatians is a relatively small book, and like many of the other books in the New Testament, it isn't really a “book” at all. It is a letter - a letter from the Apostle Paul to a church in a town called Galatia. In this episode of 52 Weeks in the Word, Trillia is joined by Jarvis Williams for an episode all about Galatians - who were the Galatians? What did God task Paul to write to them? What can we learn from this letter all these years later?  Jarvis J. Williams is associate professor of New Testament interpretation at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and a preaching pastor at Sojourn Church Midtown in Louisville, Kentucky. He is the author of several scholarly articles and books, including One New Man: The Cross and Racial Reconciliation in Pauline Theology and Galatians (New Covenant Commentary Series). He is married to Ana and is father to Jaden.  This week's reading: 2 Corinthians 8 - 1 Thessalonians 5 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Derwin L. Gray and his wife Vicki Gray are the co-founders of Transformation Church, just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, where he serves as Lead Pastor. They met at Brigham Young University where he played football and she threw the javelin on the track team. They have two adult children. After graduating from BYU, Pastor Derwin played professional football in the NFL—five years with the Indianapolis Colts and one year with the Carolina Panthers. During that time, he and Vicki began their journey with Christ. Pastor Derwin went on to graduate magna cum laude from Southern Evangelical Seminary with a Master of Divinity degree with a concentration in Apologetics, and was mentored by renowned theologian and philosopher, Dr. Norman Geisler. He was later awarded an honorary doctorate from Southern Evangelical Seminary, and he received his Doctor of Ministry in the New Testament in Context at Northern Seminary under Dr. Scot McKnight. Pastor Derwin speaks at conferences nationwide and is the author of several books, including How to Heal Our Racial Divide: What the Bible Says, and What the First Century Christians Knew about Racial Reconciliation. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces Pastor Derwin Gray. 03:30 What do you do as a pastor? It's not a job. It's a calling. 06:00 How he came to play with BYU football and in the NFL. The spiritual awakening that led Derwin to become a pastor. 13:00 Taking religious courses at BYU without much of a religious background. Derwin shares some of the experiences that he had in his classes. 16:30 Being at BYU taught Derwin to learn the story of other people that you love. It taught him a moral framework and what it means to take care of your own. 19:10 Leadership from Coach Edwards He surrounded himself with good coaches He delegated to them He empowered his staff He built strong relationships 22:30 Delegation means finding and equipping the right people to implement the vision and championing them to do it. 23:30 Tips for delegation You are clear on what you are asking them to do You are prepared to prepare them to do what you are asking them to do Celebrate them for what they do 26:45 Motivating the volunteers and people that are serving. Lovingly pushing people towards action. 32:15 The dynamic between the congregation and a pastor. They have a big staff to care for and shepherd their people. The pastor can't do it alone. 34:40 The biggest things that Derwin sees that his congregation is struggling with: anxiety, depression, fatigue, comparison, trauma. 37:15 I can't carry people's hurts; I have to carry them to Jesus. Learning to have compassion without getting compassion fatigue. 39:40 Crash course on giving a sermon on Jesus. It's not about information, it's about transformation. 45:00 Derwin shares his insights on sharing a testimony. Many in our church testify that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that the Church is true but don't talk about how Jesus has changed their lives. 46:00 The role of Derwin's wife, Vicki, in the ministry. Women have a vital ministry role. 48:00 To be a bishop or pastor doesn't mean telling people what to do. Their job is to serve the staff and congregation. 49:30 A lot of times we get our leadership style from culture and not from Christ. 52:40 Pastor Derwin shares his final thoughts and testimony on leadership. Links derwinlgray.com Books by Pastor Derwin Gray Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck,

Dr. Derwin L. Gray and his wife Vicki Gray are the co-founders of Transformation Church, just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, where he serves as Lead Pastor. They met at Brigham Young University where he played football and she threw the javelin on the track team. They have two adult children. After graduating from BYU, Pastor Derwin played professional football in the NFL—five years with the Indianapolis Colts and one year with the Carolina Panthers. During that time, he and Vicki began their journey with Christ. Pastor Derwin went on to graduate magna cum laude from Southern Evangelical Seminary with a Master of Divinity degree with a concentration in Apologetics, and was mentored by renowned theologian and philosopher, Dr. Norman Geisler. He was later awarded an honorary doctorate from Southern Evangelical Seminary, and he received his Doctor of Ministry in the New Testament in Context at Northern Seminary under Dr. Scot McKnight. Pastor Derwin speaks at conferences nationwide and is the author of several books, including How to Heal Our Racial Divide: What the Bible Says, and What the First Century Christians Knew about Racial Reconciliation. Highlights 02:00 Kurt introduces Pastor Derwin Gray. 03:30 What do you do as a pastor? It's not a job. It's a calling. 06:00 How he came to play with BYU football and in the NFL. The spiritual awakening that led Derwin to become a pastor. 13:00 Taking religious courses at BYU without much of a religious background. Derwin shares some of the experiences that he had in his classes. 16:30 Being at BYU taught Derwin to learn the story of other people that you love. It taught him a moral framework and what it means to take care of your own. 19:10 Leadership from Coach Edwards He surrounded himself with good coaches He delegated to them He empowered his staff He built strong relationships 22:30 Delegation means finding and equipping the right people to implement the vision and championing them to do it. 23:30 Tips for delegation You are clear on what you are asking them to do You are prepared to prepare them to do what you are asking them to do Celebrate them for what they do 26:45 Motivating the volunteers and people that are serving. Lovingly pushing people towards action. 32:15 The dynamic between the congregation and a pastor. They have a big staff to care for and shepherd their people. The pastor can't do it alone. 34:40 The biggest things that Derwin sees that his congregation is struggling with: anxiety, depression, fatigue, comparison, trauma. 37:15 I can't carry people's hurts; I have to carry them to Jesus. Learning to have compassion without getting compassion fatigue. 39:40 Crash course on giving a sermon on Jesus. It's not about information, it's about transformation. 45:00 Derwin shares his insights on sharing a testimony. Many in our church testify that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that the Church is true but don't talk about how Jesus has changed their lives. 46:00 The role of Derwin's wife, Vicki, in the ministry. Women have a vital ministry role. 48:00 To be a bishop or pastor doesn't mean telling people what to do. Their job is to serve the staff and congregation. 49:30 A lot of times we get our leadership style from culture and not from Christ. 52:40 Pastor Derwin shares his final thoughts and testimony on leadership. Links derwinlgray.com Books by Pastor Derwin Gray TRANSCRIPT coming soon Watch on YouTube Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox,