Podcast appearances and mentions of Billy Graham

After his three-year-old son accidentally drowned, former country music artist Granger Smith found himself facing a pain he never could have imagined.His family was devastated, and in the months that followed Granger reached his lowest point—nearly taking his own life while drunk on the back of his tour bus.On this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories., find out how God rescued Granger in his darkest moment and has completely transformed his life in the years since.Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio.If you'd like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net. If you'd like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

What if you feel like you don't know enough about the Bible to really make a difference? In this episode, the guys welcome back Dr. John Trent to talk about the incredible impact one person can have on the lives of others—even when they may feel like they don't have much to offer. John shares the powerful story of one man who made a difference in his life and the lives of his friends. It's a reminder that God doesn't need us to know everything. He simply asks us to trust Him with what we do know and be willing to use it. You may never know how much your small acts of faith, encouragement, or obedience can impact someone else. Don't underestimate the little things. God can use them for something much bigger than you realize. Check out Johns Book and all of his resources here: https://www.strongfamilies.com/ Get your own Wake up Guide and seven day reset: https://mailchi.mp/knownlegacy/the-wake-up-guide Join our weekly mens study - Adrenaline Shot - every Thursday morning at 6:45 am Central. https://soldiersforfaith.com/bible_study/soldiers-adrenaline-shot/ Join the Brotherhood on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1EZL78qtya/ Pick up your own copy of More Than You at www.morethanyoubook.com Chapters (00:00:00) - Known Legacy: Best of Series(00:02:00) - Question of the Day(00:02:13) - Summertime Highlights(00:03:19) - Jimmy Kimmel on His Summer Sabbatical(00:05:36) - John Trent(00:06:04) - John Oliver on Driving a Dog From Seattle to Phoenix(00:07:50) - John Graham on His Journey to the Lord(00:12:15) - Billy Graham(00:14:56) - John 3:8-(00:19:07) - Determining the Right Father for You(00:21:43) - Dads and the Life of Walking(00:25:12) - How to Love Each Other(00:30:09) - John Smith on The Known Legacy Podcast

Why is North Korea so weird? Is it Stalinism? Maoism? Japan-style emperor worship? Ancient Korean hermit kingdom energy? No, argues Jonathan Cheng, Beijing bureau chief for The Wall Street Journal and author of The Korean Messiah: The Failed Dynasty That Shaped the Hermit Kingdom. You've all been sleeping on the influence of 19th-century American revival Protestantism. To discuss why Kim Il-sung kind of thought he was Jesus — or at least wanted to convince everyone else he was — we have the honor of Jonathan joining ChinaTalk today, with Alex Boyd. Our conversation covers: Billy Graham meets Kim Il-sung — how America's pastor visited Pyongyang in 1992 and bonded with the dictator over their shared Presbyterian childhoods, while touring a birthplace resembling the nativity story. From “Jerusalem of the East” to totalitarian theocracy — how 22-year-old missionary Samuel Moffett brought eschatological founder energy to the wickedest city in Korea, and transformed Pyongyang into the most Protestant city in Asia, complete with jazz clubs and a Chevrolet dealership. The Manchurian cauldron — how the lawless frontier of 1920s Manchuria blended Christianity, Korean nationalism, and Marxism to forge Kim Il-sung's messiah complex — and why the 33-year-old decided to let peasants believe he could walk on water. Jim Jones, superfan — how the Jonestown cult leader became obsessed with Kim Il-sung, adopted Korean children, and traded tips with North Korean diplomats on running a closed religious society. Christianity as political technology — how Kim weaponized Protestant doctrine and ritual to build a state religion that has outlasted the Soviet Union by three decades. Plus, why North Korea is best understood not as a nation-state but as a religious society, and what Hong Xiuquan and Xi Jinping have to do with any of this. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

„Všetky desiatky zo zeme,… patria Hospodinovi;“ (3M 27:30) Máme byť správcami našich peňazí. Ak ich investujeme a šírime na slávu Božiu, môže to byť prínosom a požehnaním. Poznám podnikateľa v Detroite, ktorý Bohu sľúbil, že bude odvádzať desiatok zo svojho zisku na Pánovu prácu. Povedal mi, že obrat jeho podniku sa strojnásobil a že Boh spravil ďaleko viac, ako bolo len splnenie Jeho časti dohody. Pred nejakým časom som dostal správu od človeka z mesta San Joaquin Valley v Kalifornii. Napísal mi, že sa so svojou manželkou dohodli, že budú desatinu svojho príjmu odvádzať Pánovi. V čase, keď urobili dané rozhodnutie, mal prácu len na sedem mesiacov v roku. Momentálne ale má už trvalú prácu a zarába takmer dvojnásobok toho, čo predtým. Tento fakt jednoducho nemôžeme ignorovať. Ľuďom, ktorí sú štedrí a dávajú Bohu, Písmo sľubuje materiálne a duchovné dobro. Modlitba dňa Pane, odpusť mi časy, keď som si chcel udržať to, čo Ti právom patrí. Billy Graham

In 1978, the late Evangelist Dr. Billy Graham preached at the Singapore National Stadium for 5 days, and over 337,000 people attended. That's about 10% of the total population of 3 million then. After the crusade, Christianity went up by about 4%, resulting in a tipping point for the Christian faith. He gave a word that Singapore would be the ‘Antioch of Asia'. What does that mean and how can we become the ‘Lion of the East'?

In 1978, the late Evangelist Dr. Billy Graham preached at the Singapore National Stadium for 5 days, and over 337,000 people attended. That's about 10% of the total population of 3 million then. After the crusade, Christianity went up by about 4%, resulting in a tipping point for the Christian faith. He gave a word that Singapore would be the ‘Antioch of Asia'. What does that mean and how can we become the ‘Lion of the East'?

After making an embarrassing scene in front of friends and family, Rebecca Carrell knew something had to change. Behind her success as a well-known radio host, alcoholism, anxiety, and bulimia were destroying her life. Today, she's a Bible study teacher who openly shares her struggles and how they pointed to her need for a Savior.On this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories., Rebecca explains her fear of losing everything that mattered to her, but God stepped in to deliver her. Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio. If you'd like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net. If you'd like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

Where is the "sinner's prayer" in the Bible? Trick question. It's not there. In this episode of Fuel for the Harvest, Nathan sits down with fellow Forge speaker Joshua McFann to unpack where this prayer came from, why it works, and exactly what to say when someone tells you they want to give their life to Jesus.Joshua and Nathan trace the sinner's prayer back to its roots, from baptism in the book of Acts, through the Second Great Awakening, to Billy Graham's altar calls in the 1900s, and explain why both baptism and the prayer function the same way in a person's life: as the starting line of following Jesus, not the finish line.You'll walk away understanding the three biblical components every salvation prayer needs (surrender, belief, and repentance), grounded in Romans 10:9-10 and 1 John 1:9, along with practical, word-for-word guidance for actually praying with someone in that moment.In this episode you'll discover:-Why the sinner's prayer isn't "magic words," and what actually has to happen in someone's heart-The real difference between baptism and the sinner's prayer (and why neither saves on its own)-The 3 non-negotiable components of a biblical salvation prayer-How to guide someone through their own words instead of just feeding them a script-Why what happens after the prayer matters just as much as the prayer itself-A powerful true story of transformation from Joshua's time in ZimbabweWhether you've never led anyone to Christ before or you do it often and want to sharpen how you disciple new believers, this conversation will give you real, usable tools.

ACU Sunday Series. Christian Music and Billy Graham

In the height of a destructive season involving drugs and depression, Michael W. Smith reached a point where he believed he might lose his life. In this deeply personal conversation, he sits down with Dr. Josh Axe to share what happened the night he hit rock bottom—and why he says he was never the same afterward. Michael also discusses the healing power of worship, the prayer experience that preceded his son's recovery, the lessons he learned from Billy Graham, and the daily habits helping him stay energized at 68. He also reveals the simple principle that has sustained nearly 45 years of marriage—and what he believes God reveals when we finally become quiet enough to listen. Uncover what's really going on in your body with advanced biomarker testing for hormones, thyroid, and metabolism— plus a 1-hour consultation with a Senior Health Advisor! → http://mybloodwork.com Thank you to our sponsors! Sunlighten Sauna: https://get.sunlighten.com/axepodcast Manukora Manuka Honey: https://manukora.com/axe Caraway Home: carawayhome.com/drjoshaxe (Use code DRJOSHAXE) for an exclusive discount Watch The Dr. Josh Axe Show every Monday & Thursday on YouTube:    / @drjoshaxe  

Visit Crossmap.com — your trusted source for inspiration and life-changing stories from people of faith.Top headlines for Wednesday, August 5, 2026Aryna Sabalenka backs the WTA's new gender testing requirement, calling it essential to fairness. In-N-Out's Lynsi Snyder urges employees to turn to God after a deadly shooting at an Idaho location. Border Patrol arrests two Texas pastors en route to a Billy Graham seminar. Plus, actor Geno Segers exits Hadestown.0:11 Top-ranked women's tennis star defends 'gender test' for players0:58 In-N-Out CEO urges employees to 'turn to God' after Idaho shooting1:48 Josh Howerton says America is a 'prodigal nation'2:41 Border Patrol arrests 2 pastors on way to Billy Graham seminar4:28 Actor exits Broadway show after backlash to comments on gender5:23 Activists, Sophie Cunningham supporters protest outside WNBA game6:10 Pastors, President Trump honor fallen soldier Isabella GonzalezSubscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on TwitterChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsTop-ranked women's tennis star defends 'gender test' for players | SportsIn-N-Out CEO urges employees to turn to God' after Idaho shooting | U.S.Josh Howerton says America is a 'prodigal nation' | PodcastBorder Patrol arrests 2 pastors on way to Billy Graham seminar | U.S.Actor exits Broadway show after backlash to comments on gender | EntertainmentActivists, Sophie Cunningham supporters protest outside WNBA game | SportsPastors, President Trump honor fallen soldier Isabella Gonzalez a | U.S.

rWotD Episode 3376: Black Mariah Welcome to random Wiki of the Day, your journey through Wikipedia's vast and varied content, one random article at a time.The random article for Saturday, 1 August 2026, is Black Mariah.Black Mariah (Mariah Dillard) is a supervillain appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character is usually depicted as an enemy of Luke Cage. She was created by Billy Graham, George Tuska, and Steve Englehart, and first appeared in Luke Cage, Hero for Hire #5 (January 1973).Alfre Woodard portrayed Mariah Dillard in the series Luke Cage, set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.This recording reflects the Wikipedia text as of 01:10 UTC on Saturday, 1 August 2026.For the full current version of the article, see Black Mariah on Wikipedia.This podcast uses content from Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License.Visit our archives at wikioftheday.com and subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.Follow us on Mastodon at @wikioftheday@masto.ai.Also check out Curmudgeon's Corner, a current events podcast.Until next time, I'm neural Danielle.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we wrapped up our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Bradley Baurain, a Professor at Moody Bible Institute, explored how God’s goodness transforms the way believers trust Him, love others, and reflect His character in everyday life. Anne Graham Lotz, one of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. The Vice President and Head of Moody Global Media, Wes Ward, reflected on how Moody Radio is embracing digital media to expand the reach of the gospel while remaining firmly rooted in God’s Word. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "What would you like to hear more or add to Moody Radio?” You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Wes Ward [ 15:51 ]Call Segment [ 24:00 ]Dr. Bradley Baurain [ 45:25 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 53:30 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we continued our weekly theme, “The Goodness of God.” Dr. Michael Vanlaningham, retired Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute, unpacked how God’s sovereignty and goodness provide hope in the midst of suffering, reminding listeners that even life’s hardest trials are never outside His care. The Research Professor of Theology and Biblical Studies at Phoenix Seminary, Dr. Wayne Grudem, unpacked the difference between the visible and invisible church, emphasized the marks of genuine faith, and encouraged believers to abide in Christ and walk daily in the power of the Holy Spirit. One of the five most influential evangelists of her generation, Anne Graham Lotz, reflected on her father’s gospel legacy, Billy Graham, and encouraged believers to share Christ faithfully in every season. We then turned to our listeners on the phone line and asked, "How did the goodness of God amaze you?" How You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Call Segment [ 00:49 ]Dr. Michael Vanlaningham [ 25:01 ]Dr. Wayne Grudem [ 39:02 ]Anne Graham Lotz [ 52:02 ]Make It a Metaphor [ 1:01:45 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

After a mission trip to a Navajo reservation, Brad Hutchcraft felt God calling him to minister to Native American youth so they could experience the hope that can only be found in Christ. Today, Brad is the director of On Eagles' Wings, a ministry that shares the love of Jesus Christ with Native American youth across the United States and Canada. Listen as Brad shares how God changed the course of his life, how these young believers are reaching their own communities with the Gospel, and why Brad knows that “as long as there's breath, there is hope.” Learn more about Brad's ministry On Eagles' Wings.  Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio.If you'd like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net. If you'd like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

In this heartfelt conversation, Ginny Yurich sits down with beloved Bible teacher Anne Graham Lotz (daughter of Billy Graham) and her daughter, Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright, to explore the timeless story of Joseph through their new book, God Won't Leave You There. Together they unpack what Joseph's life teaches us about trusting God through unexpected hardship, betrayal, seasons of waiting, and life's sudden detours. From devastating setbacks to remarkable redemption, Anne and Rachel-Ruth share deeply personal stories of cancer, heart attacks, and family trials, revealing how God remained faithful in their darkest moments. They discuss the importance of maintaining a strong work ethic, serving others even while suffering, choosing forgiveness over bitterness, and embracing the character God builds during seasons we would never choose for ourselves. The conversation also offers practical encouragement for parents, touching on favoritism, speaking blessings over our children, and creating a family legacy rooted in faith. It's a rich, hope-filled discussion that reminds us that no matter how long the waiting lasts, God is always working behind the scenes, and He never leaves us where we are. Get a copy of God Won't Leave You There: Joseph's Story here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.comHow did Christian music become one of the most powerful forces shaping evangelical identity and politics? Leah Payne, professor of American religious history at Portland Seminary and author of God Gave Rock and Roll to You, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain why contemporary Christian music is more than a soundtrack. It is a business, a discipleship tool, and a form of cultural power. Payne traces CCM from Pentecostal and revivalist roots to Billy Graham, the Jesus Movement, Amy Grant, DC Talk, purity culture, worship music, and even January 6. She argues that music often forms people more deeply than doctrine because it teaches Christians what to fear, what to defend, what feels sacred, and who belongs. This conversation helps listeners see how evangelical politics was shaped not only by sermons, denominations, and elections, but by songs, celebrities, markets, mothers, youth culture, and worship.Guest BioLeah Payne, PhD, is professor of American religious history at Portland Seminary and faculty lead for the Doctor of Ministry in Faith & Cultural Engagement program. Her work focuses on American religion, evangelicalism, Pentecostalism, popular culture, music, media, gender, and politics. She is the author of God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music, published by Oxford University Press, and co-host of Rock That Doesn't Roll, a Public Radio Exchange podcast about Christian rock and its listeners. In this conversation, Payne helps explain how CCM, worship music, Christian celebrity, purity culture, and evangelical media shaped American religious identity and political life.Book MentionedGod Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music by Leah PayneBookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780197555248Relevant Links & ResourcesLeah PayneURL: https://www.drleahpayne.com/ Support Sarah Stankorb's work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/Support the showKeep the conversation going.Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?Visit our website:faithfulpoliticspodcast.comBrowse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstoreSupport the show and help us keep these conversations going:patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPoliticsSubscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:faithfulpolitics.substack.comContact the hosts:Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.comWill Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.comFollow Faithful Politics:Instagram: faithful_politicsFacebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Attorney Boz Tchividjian joins Frank Schaeffer for an honest conversation about abuse inside churches, institutional cover-ups, Christian nationalism, and the work of helping survivors seek justice.As Billy Graham's grandson, Boz understands evangelical culture from the inside. As a lawyer, he has spent years holding institutions accountable when they fail the people they were meant to protect.Together they discuss celebrity pastors, patriarchal theology, clergy abuse, politics, and why accountability remains essential for any community that claims to value truth._____LINKShttps://bozlawpa.comI have had the pleasure of talking to some of the leading authors, artists, activists, and change-makers of our time on this podcast, and I want to personally thank you for subscribing, listening, and sharing 100-plus episodes over 100,000 times.Please subscribe to this Podcast, In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer, on your favorite platform, and to my Substack, It Has to Be Said. Thanks! Every subscription helps create, build, sustain and put voice to this movement for truth. Subscribe to It Has to Be Said. The Gospel of Zip will be released in print and on Amazon Kindle, and as a full video on YouTube and Substack that you can watch or listen to for free.Support the show_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of The Gospel of Zip.Learn more at https://www.thegospelofzip.com/Follow Frank on Substack, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, TikTok, and YouTube.https://frankschaeffer.substack.comhttps://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.instagram.com/frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.threads.net/@frank_schaeffer_arthttps://www.tiktok.com/@frank_schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTubeIn Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer Podcast

How can God's Word reveal His character to us in seasons of suffering? What can the stories of those in Scripture teach us as we walk through the valleys of pain?Authors and Bible teachers Anne Graham Lotz and Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright were raised on a firm foundation of faith and have spent their lives passionately teaching and sharing God's Word. Yet it was through their own personal trials—Anne's sudden loss of her husband and then her father, evangelist Billy Graham, as well as her cancer diagnosis, and Rachel-Ruth's series of heart-related health challenges and subsequent PTSD—that God illuminated powerful lessons about suffering through the story of Joseph.Drawing from these experiences, Anne and Rachel-Ruth share the wisdom and hope found in their latest book, God Won't Leave You There: Joseph's Story.In this conversation, Davey, Anne, and Rachel-Ruth discuss how our deepest messages often emerge from our own stories, how to overcome bitterness, and how to discover what God wants to teach us through our pain.If you find yourself in a pit like Joseph, wondering where God is, this episode will remind you that no matter what you're facing, God won't leave you there. Website: https://www.annegrahamlotz.org/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annegrahamlotz/ and https://www.instagram.com/rachelruthlotzwright/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AnneGrahamLotz and https://www.facebook.com/RachelRuthLW/ Book: God Won't Leave You There: Joseph's Story https://amzn.to/4uKbSbh Not living the story you expected? Pain changes us but doesn't have to define us. Discover where you are on your healing journey and get a personalized pathway for your next steps: nothingiswasted.com/starthere Looking for help in navigating the valley of pain and trauma? Our Nothing is Wasted coaches can help: nothingiswasted.com/coaching Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

See which questions to ask when sharing the Gospel here. --------Thank you for listening! Your support of Joni and Friends helps make this show possible. Joni and Friends envisions a world where every person with a disability finds hope, dignity, and their place in the body of Christ. Become part of the global movement today at www.joniandfriends.org. Find more encouragement on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube.

Guest host Krish Dhanam continues his reflection on America's 250th anniversary by asking how Christians and conservatives should exercise responsibility in a divided culture. Drawing on lessons from his longtime mentor Zig Ziglar and the examples of Billy and Ruth Graham, Dhanam describes an approach he calls authoritative governance: honoring legitimate law, defending moral absolutes, and accepting personal responsibility. He argues that truth cannot be rewritten by public opinion, but conviction must still be expressed with grace, compassion, and a desire to persuade rather than merely defeat an opponent. Citizenship, he says, requires more than voting or complaining about national politics. It calls for faithful local service, intentional mentoring, community involvement, and a willingness to act when silence would be easier. Through stories from prison ministry, public speaking, and Christian apologetics, Dhanam challenges listeners to consider the legacy they are building and whether they will one day say, "I wish I had" or "I'm glad I did."

Guest host Krish Dhanam continues his reflection on America's 250th anniversary by asking how Christians and conservatives should exercise responsibility in a divided culture. Drawing on lessons from his longtime mentor Zig Ziglar and the examples of Billy and Ruth Graham, Dhanam describes an approach he calls authoritative governance: honoring legitimate law, defending moral absolutes, and accepting personal responsibility. He argues that truth cannot be rewritten by public opinion, but conviction must still be expressed with grace, compassion, and a desire to persuade rather than merely defeat an opponent. Citizenship, he says, requires more than voting or complaining about national politics. It calls for faithful local service, intentional mentoring, community involvement, and a willingness to act when silence would be easier. Through stories from prison ministry, public speaking, and Christian apologetics, Dhanam challenges listeners to consider the legacy they are building and whether they will one day say, "I wish I had" or "I'm glad I did."

What tables would Jesus turn over in your life? In this powerful Bible message, we explore Jesus' first public words: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 4:17). Through the lives of David, Samson, Saul, and Billy Graham, this sermon reveals how small compromises can grow into spiritual blindness—and how genuine repentance restores our walk with God. Discover why Jesus cleansed the temple in Matthew 21:12-14, what it means to become a fully devoted follower of Christ, and why repentance is not condemnation but an invitation to freedom and renewed purpose. Bible passages featured: Matthew 4:17-22 Matthew 21:12-14 Psalm 51 Acts 13:22 2 Samuel 11-12 Judges 13-16 Revelation 3:15-19 2 Chronicles 7:14 Key Topics: Repentance and spiritual renewal Hidden sin and compromise Following Jesus wholeheartedly The life of King David Samson and spiritual compromise Saul's partial obedience Cleansing the temple Biblical discipleship Christian living Faith, holiness, and restoration

“Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.” (1 Corinthians 1:21 NLT) As we look back in history and see the names of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, and others, we may be tempted to pray for the Lord to raise up a similar firebrand to ignite a much-needed revival in our nation today. But the Bible makes it clear that revival—the spread of the Good News of Jesus Christ—is not something that’s best left to the experts. Who’s called to preach the gospel? According to God’s Word, it isn’t just pastors, teachers, evangelists, and missionaries. It’s any person, anywhere, who names the name of Christ. Jesus Himself gave us our marching orders when He said, “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you” (Matthew 28:19–20 NLT). Jesus called His followers to share the gospel. And He called us to share it everywhere. In another variation of what we call the Great Commission, Jesus said, “Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone” (Mark 16:15 NLT). We can localize this by saying, “Go into all your world and preach the gospel. Go to all your family, to your workplace, and to your neighborhood. Go into your sphere of influence.” In other words, lay the groundwork for localized revivals. Why are we to do this? Because God’s primary way of reaching people is through people. The apostle Paul wrote that “since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe” (1 Corinthians 1:21 NLT). God has chosen to communicate His gospel primarily through us as we share it verbally. That’s not to say there isn’t a place for living the gospel. In fact, living the gospel—letting Christ’s light shine through us—effectively earns us the right to share the gospel. But we shouldn’t merely rely on our silent example. We need to look for opportunities to specifically articulate the gospel message to others. The apostle Paul also wrote, “And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?” (Romans 10:14 NLT). We should be doing this because we care, because we have a burden for people who don’t know the Lord. As individual believers, we may not be able to plan a revival—not in the broadest sense of the word, at least. But we can launch individual or localized revivals in the lives of others by sharing the gospel as Jesus called us to do. Reflection question: Where would be a good starting point for igniting a localized revival in your sphere of influence? Discuss Today's Devo in Harvest Discipleship! Join Greg Laurie for the Annual Jesus Revolution Baptism at Pirate's Cove on July 18. — The audio production of the podcast "Greg Laurie: Daily Devotions" utilizes Generative AI technology. This allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality content while preserving Harvest's mission to "know God and make Him known." All devotional content is written and owned by Pastor Greg Laurie. Listen to the Greg Laurie Podcast Become a Harvest PartnerSupport the show: https://harvest.org/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I greet you in Jesus' precious name! It is Thursday morning, the 16th of July, 2026, and this is your friend, Angus Buchan, with a thought for today. We go to the Book of Deuteronomy 20:4: “…for the Lord your God is He who goes with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.” We then go to Psalm 20:7: “Some trust in chariots, and some in horses; But we will remember the name of the Lord our God.”Oh, I want to encourage you this morning. Maybe you are facing a giant in your life. It might be your health. Maybe you have just been told by the doctor, “There is nothing more we can do for you. Just go home and make yourself comfortable because you are not going to live.” We don't receive that because we trust in the Lord, not in our own abilities! Maybe it is a crop you planted and you are expecting a good yield, but your neighbours are telling you you are in big trouble because nothing is going to happen. El Niño, the drought is on its way. Don't accept it! Remember, the Lord says He will fight for you and He will see it come to pass. I cannot encourage you enough to trust in the Lord.We have got a saying at Shalom that goes like this: “You must attempt something that is so big that if it is not from God it is doomed to fail.” Now, you might say, “Why do that?” Because when it works, people will say, “There is no ways that that man could have achieved that. That was a miracle from God.” And if you look at the word of God, and that is why I love the Bible so much, it is one miracle after another. When people say, “It can't be done”, you say, “But God!” God can do all things. So if Christ is for you, then no man can stand against you. So I want to encourage you to keep on by faith. What is faith? Oh, faith is the substance of things hoped for. It is the evidence of things not yet seen. And that is why I love Jesus so much. When we trusted the Lord for a million people to come to the centre of our nation, South Africa, and to pray, and we gave ourselves 6 weeks, people said to me, “Angus, it is impossible.” (It took Billy Graham 2 or 3 years to organise a campaign, even when he came to South Africa), but it did happen and we had over a million people all seated in an open field to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, to repent of their sins and to pray for the nation. Remember what happened after that? Change in politics, a different president came in, the drought that was predicted became a bumper crop, the many, many miracles, many miracles that we will only hear about in Heaven - people healed, marriages restored, new businesses opening, men going into full-time ministry because our trust was in the Lord.Jesus bless you and have a wonderful day, goodbye.

Donald and Darlene Rynkowski's house exploded with them inside. Listen to the 80-year-old couple's harrowing story of survival—and trusting God in the midst of devastation.  Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio. If you'd like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net. If you'd like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

What if the most powerful opportunity to share Jesus isn't from a stage—but at a gas station, on a dog walk, or during a simple conversation? In this encouraging episode of Revelations Podcast, Reagan welcomes back evangelist Nick Hall, founder of Pulse Ministries, fresh off an incredible weekend where hundreds of people surrendered their lives to Christ at the Fargo Red River Valley Fair. Nick shares inspiring stories of God's faithfulness over the last 20 years, how Pulse began on the campus of NDSU, and why God continues to use ordinary people in extraordinary ways. Together, Reagan and Nick remind us that evangelism isn't about having all the answers—it's about loving people, asking simple questions, and being available for the Holy Spirit to work through us. In This Episode Nick shares what God did at the Red River Valley Fair. Hundreds of people respond to the Gospel. The incredible full-circle story of Pulse Ministries returning to where it all began. Why one conversation can change someone's eternity. A moving story about a little girl wearing a Carson Wentz jersey—and how God used a simple interaction to open the door to faith. Reagan shares how attending a Billy Graham crusade became the beginning of her journey with Christ. Why asking "How are you...really?" can open hearts. How God uses everyday believers—not just pastors and evangelists—to reach people. A prayer for boldness, compassion, and divine appointments. Find more from Revelations Podcast hosted by Reagan Kramer: Website | Instagram | Apple Podcast | Youtube Learn more about the Pulse Ministry  Connect with Nick on social media: Instagram | Facebook | Twitter Become Part of Our Mission! Support The Revelations Podcast: Your support fuels our mission to share transformative messages of hope and faith. Click here to learn how you can contribute and be part of this growing community!   This Episode is brought to you by Advanced Medicine Alternatives Get back to the active life you love through natural & regenerative musculoskeletal healing: https://www.georgekramermd.com/ Chapters: 00:00 Introduction and overview of recent ministry experiences 03:44 Nick shares about his recent trip to North Dakota 06:25 The significance of Fargo fair and evangelistic outreach 07:54 God's faithfulness in college and generational impact 09:51 Stories of lives changed at NDSU and beyond 14:00 The power of simple acts of kindness and love 20:13 A miraculous encounter with Carson Wentz and a young girl 23:08 God's work in families and the importance of prayer 27:08 The joy of everyday evangelism and listening to the Holy Spirit 33:05 Practical steps for sharing faith and praying boldly 36:12 Encouragement to live boldly and love others intentionally    

Why did so many Bible-believing churches withdraw from the culture during the twentieth century?In this episode of What's the World Coming To?, Pastor Ken Ortize continues the "What's the Church Coming To?"series by examining the historical forces that reshaped Christianity. As higher criticism, secularism, and evolutionary thinking gained influence, many believers responded by separating from the culture rather than engaging it—leading to what became known as "The Frozen Chosen."Pastor Ken traces this journey through church history, explaining how the authority of Scripture came under attack, why many Christians retreated from public life, and how leaders like Billy Graham helped call the church back to engaging the world with biblical truth instead of fear.This episode is both a history lesson and a challenge for believers today: How can Christians stand firmly on God's Word while faithfully reaching the culture around them?If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, share it with a friend, and visit www.wtwcomingto.com for more biblical teaching and resources. www.wtwcomingto.com 

America knows Kathie Lee Gifford from four decades of live television. She sat next to Regis. She laughed with Hoda. But nobody knows this Kathie Lee. In this episode, she tells stories she has never told anywhere else, and she recounts them for the first time right here. She describes the two demonic encounters that confirmed the supernatural for her, one on a Delaware boardwalk and one inside a church in Bethlehem. She recounts hearing the audible voice of Jesus at 13 years old in a movie theater. She shares the prophecy Billy Graham spoke over her life at age 20, the phone call from Howard Stern after 30 years of public hatred, and the X-ray her doctor called a miracle.Then we get highbrow scholarly. Kathie Lee has spent over a decade studying biblical history under rabbis in Israel, and her new book, Nero and Paul, pits ancient evil against living hope. She takes us to the Gates of Hell at the base of Mount Hermon, explains why Jesus was never a carpenter, and unpacks the clash between two kingdoms that never stopped raging. Two men wanted the same throne. One declared himself a god and died in disgrace. The other met the risen Messiah on a dusty road and changed the world. The battle between the kingdom of darkness and the Kingdom of Heaven runs through every era, every career, and every heart. There is nothing new under the sun.  This Episode is Sponsored By: https://go.goodranchers.com/BLURRY — Get $50 off your order when you use our code BLURRY. https://livemomentous.com — Get up to 35% OFF your first order with code BLURRY http://blurrygold.com/ — Get a FREE Gold & Silver Kit while supplies last! - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Dave Ferguson, co-founder of Exponential, co-founder of Community Christian Church, and author of Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact. For decades, Dave has championed one central conviction: the Church will never fulfill its mission through addition alone. In this conversation, he challenges church leaders to rethink success, embrace multiplication, and cultivate the kind of personal health that sustains lasting kingdom impact. Are you building a church that grows, or a movement that multiplies? Wondering how your leadership today shapes generations of ministry tomorrow? Dave offers a compelling vision for creating influence that extends far beyond your own church. Multiplication changes everything. // Dave believes many church leaders are asking the wrong question. Instead of waking up each day asking, “How can I grow my church?” he challenges leaders to ask, “How can we multiply God's Kingdom?” That subtle shift transforms every leadership decision, from staffing and budgeting to leadership development and church planting. Growth focuses on adding people to one church. Multiplication focuses on reproducing disciples, leaders, churches, and networks that reach beyond one church long after the original leader steps away. The Church needs a new scorecard. // Only a small percentage of churches in the United States are actively reproducing new churches. Through Exponential’s “16% Mission,” the goal is to move enough churches toward multiplication that reproducing churches become the cultural norm rather than the exception. Reaching this tipping point would fundamentally reshape how churches think about mission and influence. Culture beats strategy every time. // Multiplication doesn’t begin with a sermon series or a strategic initiative—it begins with culture. Dave encourages leaders to model multiplication long before they publicly announce it. Whether leading a small group, mentoring an apprentice, or developing future leaders, pastors must demonstrate the behaviors they hope to reproduce. People adopt what leaders consistently practice far more readily than what they merely promote. Health fuels multiplication—not hustle. // While multiplication requires intentional effort, Dave warns against building ministry on relentless hustle. Instead, healthy multiplication grows out of healthy leaders. Churches don’t simply reproduce strategies. They reproduce the character, priorities, and habits of their leaders. If leaders neglect their own well-being, they will unintentionally reproduce that same dysfunction throughout the organization. Watch the four gauges. // At the heart of Dave’s new book, Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact, is a simple daily framework for preventing leadership drift. He encourages leaders to evaluate four areas every day: relational health, physical health, mental health, and spiritual health. By honestly assessing these four “gauges,” leaders can recognize unhealthy patterns before they become major failures. Rather than waking up years later wondering how they drifted so far, leaders make small course corrections every day. Even better, Dave encourages processing these areas with trusted community, since accountability helps combat self-deception. Think beyond your lifetime. // Ultimately, Dave invites leaders to adopt a longer horizon for ministry. Buildings, attendance, and personal accomplishments eventually fade, but investing in people creates lasting kingdom influence. When leaders intentionally multiply healthy disciples and healthy leaders, their ministry continues bearing fruit long after they’re gone. That, Dave believes, is the kind of legacy worth pursuing. To learn more about Dave Ferguson, Exponential, and his new book Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact, visit exponential.org/multiplier or daveferguson.org. Email Dave directly to get bulk copies of his book. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. You’re in for a real treat today. Today is a leader, you know, you have those leaders in your life. You’re like, man, I wish everybody could be exposed to this person and would follow along. And you feel like you’re introducing a friend to friends. That’s what today’s conversation is. And I hope at the same time, it’ll challenge you and encourage you as we think about the future. Rich Birch — Excited to have Dave Ferguson back on the podcast from Exponential. It is a growing community of leaders committed to accelerating multiplication of healthy, reproducing faith communities. They equip multipliers through a variety of resources. You might know their big event, Exponential, but that’s not all they do. They do a lot of other stuff as well.Rich Birch — Dave also was the co-founder of Community Christian in Chicagoland and New Thing. We actually had Ted on recently for a follow-up episode, which is fantastic. So these will this will come out at a similar time. Dave also wrote a book recently that I want you to pick up. It’s called Multiplier: How Healthy Leaders Create Lasting Impact. Dave, welcome to the show.Dave Ferguson — Hey, thanks, Rich. Good to be with you. Rich Birch — Yeah, so glad you’re you’re here. Why don’t you fill in the story for folks that don’t know or maybe aren’t following along. Maybe give us fill out the bio a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your background.Dave Ferguson — Long story short yeah, in my early mid-20s I planted a church in Chicago with a whole bunch of friends. God was very very kind to it; it grew had pretty large, and we had locations across the city and the suburbs. Out of that, then we started planting churches. Our first one was in Denver, then Southern California, and then Detroit, then New York, then Boston. And pretty soon we made a shift that we went from not only reproducing new churches, but helping reproduce networks of new churches. And that turned out to be a bigger deal than and we realized.Dave Ferguson — And we got opportunities then to do that in Europe and then in Africa. And next thing you know, fast forward 15, 20 years, and we were in 69 countries. And this will sound better than it is, but we got to help plant over 35,000 churches. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s incredible. Dave Ferguson — And at the same time, we also started Exponential. And so all three of those things had seemed to have God’s favor on it, grew. And in the last year, I apprenticed a new lead pastor, Ted Coniaris, that you referenced, who is, I guess, recently on the podcast… Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Dave Ferguson — …and who’s doing a great job at Community.Dave Ferguson — And then then on top of that, we moved New Thing underneath Exponential. So Exponential actually acquired New Thing. And for us, that feels really good. It was pretty, pretty easy transition, but feels really good because we have something we call the 16% mission that we’re going after. And it’s starting to feel actually achievable now. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so cool. Dave Ferguson — So I think I think that’s all that’s all the things.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s that’s it. Just that’s it. Yeah, that’s amazing. It’s so good. And, you know, there’s a lot I respect about you and your leadership. But one of the core things I love is you’ve really given your life to multiplication. You’re focused on this idea, helping us think about and then really in the best sort of way, poking and prodding and pushing us to come back to this idea. Rich Birch — I think for many of us, the word multiplication is the kind of thing we can hear it so many times. We can kind of tune it out or it like, what does that actually mean? Aren’t we all committed to multiplication? Isn’t it, isn’t that just what it means? So why does it still matter to the church today? Really lay it on thick here. Why is multiplication such a big deal?Dave Ferguson — Yeah. I mean, two things real quick. I mean, one for every one of your listeners, if they’re involved in ministry, I mean, they want, they they’re trading their life and they want to make the greatest impact they can. And I’m telling you, when you don’t invest in multiplication, you’re short selling yourself. You’re not going to, you’re not going to get to make the kind of impact that God intended for you to, or you possibly could.Dave Ferguson — So, I mean, Let me give you a quick example, so it becomes real tangible.Dave Ferguson — So two weeks ago, I was in Long Beach, California, and I ran into Matt Larson. Matt’s a guy who did a leadership residency with us probably, man, it’s been a long time ago now, 15 years ago. So he basically came, spent a year with us at Community, really sharp leader, but he didn’t really understand how to multiply. And we kind of helped him understand how to do that. Dave Ferguson — So he does that, goes back to Ventura, California, plants Anthem Church, and they’ve planted 15 churches. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Dave Ferguson — So think about this and this this. And I don’t know how you keep score, but this is how I keep score with my own, how am I making a difference?Rich Birch — Yes.Dave Ferguson — So like even like if I’m taking a day off in Chicago… Rich Birch — Right. Dave Ferguson — …Matt’s still working in Ventura, California, and he’s planting churches. Rich Birch — Right. Amazing.Dave Ferguson — And I, you know, you’ve heard me probably say like my favorite quote from Bob Buford, my fruit grows in other people’s trees.Dave Ferguson — That’s what multiplication does. Rich Birch — So good.Dave Ferguson — Instead of just having one tree, you get a whole orchard. Dave Ferguson — Or Troy McMahon, who’s one of my best friends.Dave Ferguson — My wife’s getting ready to go to Kansas City to see his wife in just a few hours here.Dave Ferguson — And I mean, again, probably 15 years ago, they took 25 people who moved from Chicago to Kansas City. We blessed them and sent them with some money. They’ve gone to multiple locations.Dave Ferguson — They’ve started four networks there in Kansas City and have probably planted somewhere between 60 and 70 churches.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s amazing.Dave Ferguson — I mean, again, if I can say it this way, like I count that.Rich Birch — Yes, yes.Dave Ferguson — I’m just telling people. So if you just want to kind of focus on just your thing, you will never, ever make the kind of impact you can if you invest in multiplication of multiplying other leaders.Rich Birch — Yeah. Dave Ferguson — And the other thing, so one, it’s in your best interest because you got this game not to make money. None of us are making any money, right?Rich Birch — Right. Sure. Yes, yes.Dave Ferguson — You got this game because you’re like, this is the best way I can make a difference. And if you’re not doing multiplication, you’re short selling yourself.Dave Ferguson — But let me add one more thing.Rich Birch — Yep.Dave Ferguson — It’s also how the mission gets accomplished. I mean, if you went into Acts 1:8, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, ends of the earth, and Jesus said, okay, here four more guys.Dave Ferguson — Last time, before I leave, i want to shoot here’s here’s the mission, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, ends of the earth. The only way that that’s going to happen is if there’s a movement, and movement does not happen unless there’s multiplication.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, and there’s, ah you know, one of the things I appreciate about kind of the the you and the broader exponential movement, I think you’ve helped really sharpen this conversation, tighten this up and get clarity for us, which I think is is positive.Rich Birch — And, you know, I bump into a lot of churches that are struggling, a lot of teams that are struggling with getting their their staff to be Ephesians 4 type people, people that are equipping others, that are multiplying others, that they, and there’s an interesting connection between these two, right? Somewhere we thought, oh, you could reach a bunch of people, but not actually equip anyone, which is so strange, right? It’s a strange, and actually there’s only a tiny fraction of churches that are actually multiplying today.Rich Birch — Most are only doing addition. I think this this thinking is one of the ways I think you’ve helped us sharpen this up. Why do you think that math is so stuck and kind of unpack that, help us understand, you know, the kind of the problem we’re trying to attack here.Dave Ferguson — Yeah. I think one of the things you’re referencing, so I casually talked about the 16% mission. Let me back up.Dave Ferguson — We want to see 16%, and I know your audience is bigger than the United States, but in the U.S., that’s where our exponential U.S.’s focus is. We want to see 16% of all churches in the U.S. become reproducing or multiplying churches. And that means that they’ve ever planted a church in the last three years.Dave Ferguson — When we first did the homework on this, it’s only about 4%. Now we’ve moved the needle in the last 10 years to 7%. Rich Birch — Amazing.Dave Ferguson — We think in the next five years, we can get to 10%. In the next 10 years, we can get to 16%. And 16% is kind of that tipping point. Where the of that tipping point, you get the right innovators and early adopters. They will convince the whole that this should be normative.Dave Ferguson — And that’s what we’re trying to do. So with that in mind, you’re right. So we’re still only at 7%. And I think the biggest… we’re stuck we’re stuck in an existing paradigm. We’re like fish swimming in water that um we think the best that we can do is grow a church. And I And I think candidly, here’s how I’d frame it up. I think most leaders wake up every morning asking the question, how can can grow my church?Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — How can I grow my church? And that’s a good question, but it’s not a great question. It’s not an Acts 1:8 question.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Dave Ferguson — It’s not the kind of question going allow you to maximize your impact, you know, where you’re sleeping in on a Saturday you’ve got a guy in Kansas City and you’ve got a guy in Southern California who’s planting churches. Okay.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Dave Ferguson — A better question is how do we multiply God’s kingdom? Rich Birch — So good.Dave Ferguson — And if and if we could get if we could get leaders to wake up every morning asking that question. Okay, and again, I and versus we, because it’s going to take us working together, not just grow, like addition, but actually multiply, multiplication, and not just my church, but actually God’s kingdom.Dave Ferguson — I mean, it’s going to make a huge difference in the kingdom. And I think, so when you get stuck in that kind of addition, like how do I grow my church, it impacts decisions you make about money… Rich Birch — Yep. Dave Ferguson — …because you’re going to go, oh, I need to keep that here. So we can you know add another you know and add another wing to our building versus like, oh, guess what? Maybe if I so if i sent that money to you know this church plant, it’s going to result in 70 churches in Kansas City.Dave Ferguson — I mean, it’s highly leveraged like venture spiritual venture capital is what it is. Rich Birch — Yeah. Dave Ferguson — It implements the decisions we make about staff. You know, we want to hold on to our best staff instead of developing them. And then some of them who actually have the capability of starting other churches and even networks, blessing them and sending them out and going like, yeah, I’m a spiritual father and these are my kids. I’m cheering them on. Dave Ferguson — So I think that’s that’s, we’re kind of stuck in this paradigm and it’s not a biblical one, but it is a paradigm that we’re stuck in.Rich Birch — Yeah. I love that. And, you know, I’ve similarly been with a lot of leadership teams where we’re in the kind of growth conversation. And I’ll come at that from ah kind of the almost the opposite end, but you end in the same place, which you end up saying, like, this box is not big enough to contain the number of people that your church is hoping to reach.Rich Birch — Like we can’t build a box big enough to do that.Rich Birch — I don’t care how much money, I don’t care how good you are at fundraising, you can’t do that. So we have to multiply. If you really think that we are trying to reach and make an impact in our community, if there’s so many churches say, we’re for whatever city we’re in, we’re for Chicago, we’re for whatever.Rich Birch — If you’re really for that, then you have to be by definition for multiplication and for other churches and for seeing, you know, this thing multiplying out. We can’t, we can’t get them all to come here. That’s never going to work. That’s just, it doesn’t work at all.Dave Ferguson — And here’s thing you can, though, do. I mean, you’re right. If it’s just about their butts in your seats, whatever. But if it’s about you bringing them and equipping them and then sending them out, oh, that’s highly leveraged. And that could be a really good use of a building or facility.Rich Birch — Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. That’s good. So, so much of this conversation, you know, I want to tap in your expertise. We’ve got a lot of lot of executive pastors listening in. You know, you have been in the one of the multiple seats you’ve sat in has been the kind of lead pastor seat. And let’s talk to some XPs from your perspective as as a you know a lead pastor around this area.Dave Ferguson — Oh, good. Those are the people actually the stuff done. They’re not just the top. These are the executors.Rich Birch — But let’s let’s think that through. So vision isn’t just about getting up on Sunday and preaching about it. You’ve actually led organizations that have done this stuff. And you know you’ve you’ve cast a compelling vision, but then have seen the organizations actually go out and make this stuff happen. So we think about it from our seat as an executive pastor. What is the executive pastor? Where do we actually come into play in this thing? What’s our piece of the puzzle? How can we help kind of move this thing forward at an operational level? You you named a couple of things, money, staffing. Help us think through that.Dave Ferguson — and And the assumption here is, okay, so the lead pastor is pro-multiplication, and now you have to execute the vision.Rich Birch — Yeah.Dave Ferguson — I I think one of the things, grab a hold of how do we create ah a multiplication culture? Because if you can create a multiplication in culture, you will literally become, people in your church will become unconsciously competent.Dave Ferguson — I’m thinking of a real quick story. A friend of mine named Doug. Doug was a guy who was nominally involved at Community. All right. Long story short, only because his wife insisted he joined a small group that Sue and I were leading. Now I didn’t have an apprentice leader in that small group, which is which is not good, okay? That’s how you don’t create a culture.Dave Ferguson — But we went through six weeks and I went up to Doug and I said, I told him, I said, hey… And actually said in front of the whole group because he’s the kind of guy I could do this to. I said, hey, I know this group would like to continue, but we can’t continue unless we have an apprentice leader.Rich Birch — Nice.Dave Ferguson — And I said, Doug, will you be my apprentice leader?Rich Birch — That’s great. Dave Ferguson — He’s kind of like you. Rich Birch — Yeah. Dave Ferguson — Big guy with a bald head. Beads his sweat or popping on top of his head. He says, all right, I’ll do it, I’ll do it, I’ll do it. Rich Birch — Right. Dave Ferguson — So he he agrees to be my apprentice leader. So I start meeting with him because the group was on Wednesdays. I’d meet with him on Tuesdays at Starbucks around 4 o’clock as he’d finish up work. And we’d kind of…And I remember his first question to me was like, hey, so if I’m going to be an apprentice leader, I should read the Bible, I guess, right?Dave Ferguson — I’m like, yeah, you probably should.Rich Birch — Yes, it’s a good starting point.Dave Ferguson — And so I told him how I how I do it. But over the course of the next 14 months or so, um you know, I basically apprenticed him through what we call the the five steps.Dave Ferguson — And here’s here’s the fun part of this story. OK, so Doug didn’t have much of a church background.Dave Ferguson — So he gets to the place where he thinks he’s ready to lead a group. And I think he’s ready, which people ask me a lot. how do you know when a leader is ready? I think it’s really that it’s that simple when they think they’re ready and you think they’re ready, they’re ready. And so I said, okay, why don’t you take over this group? It’ll be easy for me to go start a new group. You take… And he he said, okay. Dave Ferguson — I come back, like two or three weeks later, to Starbucks on Tuesday at 4 o’clock, sitting at the exact same table where we would always sit was Doug and his brand new apprentice, Tim.Rich Birch — Love it.Dave Ferguson — And so Doug was like unconsciously competent. He was like, oh, I thought I thought every church in America did that. I thought that’s how it works. I didn’t know I had a choice.Rich Birch — Yes, yes.Dave Ferguson — And if you create a culture of multiplication, that’s what will happen over and over and over again.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. Well, and and yeah, what a vivid picture. And, you know, we’ve got to move our our people and our systems towards, you know, continuing to multiply at every level. When you think about a church that’s stuck and it maybe is is just focusing on addition. They’re really in that, but they they have a desire to want to multiply.Rich Birch — Is your recommendation, or maybe what you’ve seen happen, the churches that have actually made that pivot towards multiplication, is it like a ground up thing? Like we start with, man, we’ve got to get all of our, you know, all of our team leaders get an apprentice, let’s go there. And then we’ll trickle up through the organization, which then leads to the conclusion. Oh, by the way, we’re going to have to, we’re going to multiply because we’ve kind of built this culture.Rich Birch — Or, is it better to go or or maybe there’s advantages to go one way or the other from the kind of the, hey, we’re going to declare this and that’s going to kind of pull us towards multiplication. Do you understand what I’m saying? Ground up or we cast a vision to pull towards it.Dave Ferguson — Yeah. And creating the culture.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. In creating the culture, yeah.Dave Ferguson — If you haven’t, if you, if you don’t currently have that kind of culture, here’s what I would encourage leaders to do. I do think it does start at the top with like the lead pastor and the executive pastor.Dave Ferguson — And I encourage leaders at every level. I said, lead at the smallest level of your organization and lead at the largest level and you train and trust everybody in between.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. That’s good.Dave Ferguson — You want, and so for, I mean, all, whatever it was, 30 some years at Community, I always led a small group and I tried to always have an apprentice leader. So you need to do that.Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — And if you can get, okay. And I think there was a moment where you declare, Hey, this is who we are. And you need to decide if you want to buy in or not. You’re firm, but kind about that. Rich Birch — Yep.Dave Ferguson — And if you can get all of your staff, plus all the people that you consider as leaders and key influencers, which is probably somewhere around 16 to 20% of your total church. You get them bought into it.Dave Ferguson — Once you get them bought into it, and it’ll probably take you a year and they’re actually doing this stuff. Then you preach a sermon on it. Then you start casting vision on it. Then you declare it for the whole, because what will happen is that, again, kind of back to that innovators and early adopters. When they’re in the lobby and somebody comes them and goes like, hey, what do you think about this idea of apprenticeship? And we’re all going to have apprentices or multiply. They’ll already have been done it. They’ll have done it for a year.Dave Ferguson — And they’ll be like, oh, yeah, I think this is awesome. And that’s exactly what you want.Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — Does that make sense? Rich Birch — Yeah, it makes total sense. Yeah. And even what you’re doing.Dave Ferguson — I guess I’m questioning if you’re ready to make that shift, I wouldn’t preach a sermon on it first, because what they’re going to do is if you’re preaching a sermon on it and you’re not doing this stuff, what happens is you implicitly and almost accidentally create a culture that says, oh, I don’t actually have to do this stuff because the guy who’s casting the vision only talks about it and doesn’t actually do it. And so you create that culture, which is what we have a lot of.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, I for sure I’ve seen a lot of that in, you know, in the churches I’ve been a part of, even with stuff like ah the fact that you, you know, were leading in a group, you know, I’ve I’ve seen a number, not necessarily the lead pastors I’ve worked for, but in churches where there’s like the lead pastor, they like elevate themselves out of that kind of thing. And they’re like Oh, I don’t need to interact with normal people. And, and that comes out, you know, I’ve, cause I’ve said it all the time to lead pastors. I’m like, even simply like, I would way rather you that just leak out of you that you’re, that you’re apprenticing a leader in a small group.Rich Birch — Then, then we have some big thing on why apprenticing is important because people will catch the the small little things, the little breadcrumbs here and there. They’ll catch that at a more powerful level than the big, let’s put a, let’s get a brand name, stick it on a wall, you know, kind of thing. That’s cool. That’s great.Dave Ferguson — It’ll but end up in your sermons, it’ll end sidebars, hallway conversations. Here’s one of my favorite examples. You know, Nicky Gumbel, right?Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.Dave Ferguson — So Nicky’s the guy who previously was the vicar at Holy Trinity Brompton. He was really the guy who kind of really brought out Alpha… Rich Birch — Yeah. Dave Ferguson — …which you might say is, I mean, right there with Billy Graham and the Apostle Paul… Rich Birch — Yeah, Oh, absolutely. 100%. Dave Ferguson — …greatest evangelistic tools that we’ve ever had.Rich Birch — Yes. 100%.Dave Ferguson — One of the things I love about Nicky is I don’t know how exactly how many years, it’s probably been 40 years. Every semester for 40 years, he always leads an Alpha course.Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.Dave Ferguson — There’s a reason they have such a strong culture and so powerful. Rich Birch — Yes.Dave Ferguson — And that’s a big mistake. I mean, I think as, you know, we’ve planted church and starts to grow. And we’re trying to figure out, what can I do and what shouldn’t I do? And one of the first things that goes, oh well, I just won’t lead a small group anymore. I won’t lead a missional community anymore. Whatever is that smallest organizing principle is, you want to hold on to that. Train and trust everybody else to do everything in between. Rich Birch — That’s very good.Dave Ferguson — And as you continue to grow and scale, yeah, influence way out there. But but Ii’ll hold on to this too.Rich Birch — Yeah, continuing to shout out Nikki, I just think the world of Alpha… Dave Ferguson — I do too. Rich Birch — …and it’s been so effective for our our church. And I had an opportunity to interact with him right in the teeth of COVID. I was doing an interview with him. And he, we were talking about some stuff and i it really marked, it was one of those like you lean forward and you’re like, okay, that’s interesting.Rich Birch — He was talking about how he’s like, you know, for years, the meal is a big deal for for Alpha and like, you know, hospitality is a big deal for that. And he said, I was always critical of people that did Alpha online. He’s like, I was always critical of people doing it over Zoom and was like, I would say you can’t do it over Zoom. You can’t do it over Zoom.Rich Birch — And he said, obviously people did it over Zoom and I wasn’t stopping them, but I was, I poo-pooed it. Well, then well then COVID came. And he said exactly what you said. I’m still leading alpha courses and our Apha groups. And so I’m in an Alpha group. And what do you know? This is amazing. God works through this. Rich Birch — And so I was really struck by that, that he as a leader would have the humility to say, hey, I was wrong, but I’m enough in the weeds of this thing to understand, okay, what are the actual implications for our ministry? I think that’s a huge lesson for us to pull away.Dave Ferguson — Well, I mean, two things…Rich Birch — And yeah, I think it’s 35 million people they put through that. Yeah.Dave Ferguson — My thought is two things. One, is I remember that podcast. So thank you very much. I remember going, listening to him. And and and excuse me. And it shaped a lot of the ways I even thought about COVID from hearing from him on that.Dave Ferguson — But I think I think this the second thing is, I think what you were kind of replying to, you have to be in the weeds… Rich Birch — Yes. Dave Ferguson — …in order to know how the next innovation is going to happen. I mean, if if he wasn’t doing that, he would have kept with his assumption, no, it’s not going to work and maybe made a lot of bad choices.Rich Birch — Right, right. And we would end up in ah yeah and a very tough spot today. In a lot of ways, that that ministry continues to accelerate… Dave Ferguson — Oh, yeah. Rich Birch — …or that movement really continues to accelerate ah you know in these years, which is amazing.Rich Birch — So one of the things let’s talk about, so one of the things I’ve heard you say is that you really build the case that multiplication has to be built on health, not on hustle. And you know there was a previous generation that was really valued like we wanted leaders. We didn’t want leaders that were burnt out, but we wanted them one step back from being burnt out. We wanted them like right there, right at the line. But what, you know, but I know that’s not what you’re advocating for. But it but I think sometimes our teams, our people, our cultures can look at this and say, this feels like one more thing to do.Rich Birch — So what why does this distinction of health, not hustle, how does that factor in when we’re thinking about actually trying to become a multiplying organization when we’re, you know, we’ve got lots of other stuff to carry as we’re thinking about it. Help us understand that.Dave Ferguson — My experience, particularly working with church planters and other leaders, is they aren’t afraid to hustle. Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — And in fact, that’s our default position, that I that I will I can maybe outwork the next person. And they’re willing to do it for it for a good cause. But even though we are willing to that, it actually gives us the wrong result. Because if we only hustle more, if only work more, you’re not going to make the impact you could, like I’ve already described, if you’re multiplying more. So I am constantly encouraging leaders, don’t work more, multiply more. Don’t work more, multiply more. And that’s how you make the biggest impact. Dave Ferguson — The other part of that, which is really important, I kind of have a conviction. We knew that we need to try to do the Jesus mission the Jesus way.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Dave Ferguson — We want to do the Jesus mission, the Jesus way. And I think that has to do with, no, I’m going to try to i’m gonna try to be a great dad. I want to try to be a great husband. I want to try to be a good steward of this body that I have. I want to pay attention to what my thought life, I want to pay attention to my anxiety and and and and levels and and am I feeling depressed? I want to make sure I’m okay spiritually.Dave Ferguson — And I think if we’re doing those kinds of things, we’re checking what I call these four gauges, I think will be healthy leaders.Dave Ferguson — And here’s the axiom that I have kind of led by, especially over the last couple decades, is that you will reproduce who you are and what you do.Rich Birch — Yes. Right.Dave Ferguson — So if if if you want to reproduce unhealth, then be unhealthy. But like if you really want, if you want the, if you want the, the guys in your church to be really good dads. You don’t have to be a perfect dad, but just put in the effort and let them know that you’re also putting in the effort.Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — If you want to be a you want people to be you know really good spouses, then try to be that yourself. Because you’re going to reproduce who you are and what you do.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. I really appreciate that you’re you know that you’re pressing on these issues. I think this is a a critical thing you know for us, and particularly as we, you know I’m in a phase of my ministry where looking on to like, okay, how am I handing this stuff off?Rich Birch — What am I doing to try to help the next generation? And man, I would love the next generation to, I think one of the things that particularly Gen Z leaders are attuned to is they seem to be naturally attuned to like, we’re not going to like drive over a cliff for this thing. We want to do this in a healthy manner. Rich Birch — And and you’re not obviously, you know, you’re highly productive. You get a lot done and Exponential is a highly productive organization. You do a lot. But we want to do it—I like that—you were saying, you know, the Jesus mission, in the Jesus way. That’s actually at the heart of your most recent book Multiplier. Rich Birch — You talk, you kind of referenced these four gauges. Can you unpack that a little bit more at a high level? Help us understand what are the four gauges? And what were you hoping with this book? Why, why another book? Why is this one? What are you hoping this accomplishes for churches?Dave Ferguson — I think there’s a lot of great content out there about personal health, emotional health, how to have a rule of life, that kind of stuff. And we and we need to avail ourselves to it. I think there’s also a lot of great stuff and some of it that I’ve helped contribute to around how do you multiply? How do you you know develop leaders? How do you hero making? All that kind of stuff.Dave Ferguson — What I tried to do in this book though is show how those are so interconnected. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Dave Ferguson — That if you really want to do this for a long time, and that’s how you make the biggest impact, it’s only going to come if you’re a healthy leader, because again, you reproduce who you are.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Dave Ferguson — And so what we do is we kind of, we, we, we talk about the problem and the problem that all of us face, in the first couple of chapters, is what I call drift.Dave Ferguson — And we drift because…maybe frame it this way. I’ve never had a conversation with a young leader who tells me, hey, 15 years from now, here’s my dream: I hope I’m 50 pounds overweight and divorced and compromising my core convictions.Rich Birch — That’s so true.Dave Ferguson — I’ve never had that conversation. Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — But we read about it almost every week. And I sometimes share the story. I mean, I was in a small group with some of the most influential pastors, maybe in the world, but definitely in Chicago for about eight or nine years. If I tried to reassemble that group today, half the seats would be empty.Dave Ferguson — And I don’t think it’s, and I think it’s because they, they drifted and they unintentionally ended up someplace they never intended to be.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Rich Birch — Dave Ferguson — They didn’t intend to end up, you know, in a hotel room with a woman that wasn’t plan A, when they planted a church. Rich Birch — Right. Dave Ferguson — Or to create a toxic culture, which really benefited them more than other people i don’t think that was like the, the goal from the very beginning. Does that make sense? Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely.Dave Ferguson — And I think what happens is we incrementally, we drift a little bit of time until, you know, in a variety of ways, we end up someplace we never intended to be. So one of the things that I do, I’ll I'll just, maybe I’ll show you here too. I know, this is, this is, I’ll just show you. And I don’t, I know we’re not doing anything on video. I don’t think, but this is, this is kind of, this is my journal.Rich Birch — Yeah.Dave Ferguson — Oh, that’s one from like December. Wow. That’s old. There we go. There we go. That’s actually yesterday. And so like, I just write these four letters, RPMS in my journal almost every day.Dave Ferguson — And R stands for relational. How are things with Sue, the kids, my friends?Dave Ferguson — P stands for physical. How am I doing stewarding this body? For me, it’s a trip the fitness center or out running on the prairie path. Dave Ferguson — How am I doing mentally, which has to do with kind of stress or anxiety or thought life?Dave Ferguson — And then how am I doing spiritually? What’s going on between me and God? Dave Ferguson — And then so I just make a little gauge here and I kind of just, where am I? Where am I? And then I actually go ahead and give myself, I like to keep score. If we got executive pastors, they’ll like this. You should keep score.Rich Birch — Yeah, they like numbers. Stuff that ends up on spreadsheets. It’s good.Dave Ferguson — So you can see, like, so I gave myself a score for each of those on a scale of 1 to 10, then a composite, which was 5, which was actually down from 5.25 the day before. And I think that’s because, as you can kind of hear, I got a little bit of a cold, so I’m not feeling well.Dave Ferguson — And, but I, I try to do this every day. And I encourage leaders, those four gauges, relational, physical, mental, spiritual. If you’ll just spend four minutes every day…Rich Birch — That’s so good.Dave Ferguson — …reflecting on those four areas prayerfully, how am I doing relationally? How am I doing physically? How am I doing mentally? How doing spiritually? You’re going to drift. We all drift, but here’s the thing. You’re not going to go a whole month or a whole year or a decade and and suddenly wake up, you know, and someone’s dragging you into court and you’re going like, how in the world did I end up here?Rich Birch — Yeah, I think this is…Dave Ferguson — And so… Rich Birch — Yeah, I would just want to… Dave Ferguson — …it’s hopefully it’s a very, very practical tool for here’s how you can do this every day. And and let me throw this in Rich too, because I want to make sure I hit this. And then if you can do it in community… Rich Birch — Yes. Dave Ferguson — …that’ll way mitigate how much you lie to yourself.Rich Birch — Yes.Dave Ferguson — t’s like if a small group or a missional community every week, just checking in or once a month with another group that you’re you’re working with, I think that if you do that, it’s not foolproof, but it’ll be a big, big, big help.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. The human, uh, human propensity for self-delusion is incredible, right? Like our ability to like become, to lie to ourselves, let alone other people is amazing. You know, I, I want to just honor you for, I think, you know, I, obviously I saw it Exponential this year where you’ve been rolling it out. I’ve, I’ve, I haven’t read the entire book yet, but I’ve read a bunch of it. And I really appreciate that at this phase in your, journey, you’re raising this flag, I think, and connecting it so, you know, integrally to the multiplier, the multiplication mission. I think that is so critically important because we, you know, we’ve seen those leaders who make a series of foolish, unwise decisions that ultimately end up in a tragic spot.Rich Birch — And oftentimes it’s like, I don’t know what to say to people. How do you avoid that? And I like that you have, you’ve put together a framework here to help us think that. Now, as you’ve rolled the book out to folks…Dave Ferguson — How old you how old are you, Rich?Rich Birch — 52.Dave Ferguson — 52. Rich Birch — Yes. Dave Ferguson — Okay. Like, I’m convinced God’s probably got at least another 20 years… Rich Birch — Sure. Dave Ferguson — …you know, and ah and in some ways it’ll probably be your highest impact years.Rich Birch — Yep. Yep.Dave Ferguson — But if one of these gauges goes way south and takes you out, like there’s 20 of the best years of difference-making that we don’t get from Rich Birch. And it’s not just Rich Birch. Every one of the people listening to the podcast. I mean, I think there’s a whole bunch of people that God goes like, no, I got 75 years or 80 years of difference making. And let’s do the whole run.Rich Birch — Yeah. No, I appreciate that. That’s why I think it’s, it’s I'm not doing a good way I’m not doing a good job articulating. I think it’s a gift that you’ve given to the church because you’re helping us actually attack this problem in a really super practical, good way that that I can see it making a huge difference.Rich Birch — And I would agree with you. I think what I realized after being however many decades in ministry, there’s like a real cumulative effect here that it’s like, you know, each decade, I thought things were great in my thirties and then I hit my forties and now I’m in my fifties.Rich Birch — I’m like, oh my goodness, there’s and and sometimes people will say, they’ll they’ll ask you know kind of questions like, you know hey, how do you basically, you know how do you do what you do or whatever? And a part of I’m like, well, you just stay in it. Like you just keep doing it, right? And stay in the game and stay plugged in and yeah.Dave Ferguson — And the and the longer your influence continues to grow, I mean, like, in the kindest, humble way, if Rich Birch emails somebody, you respond. Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s kind.Dave Ferguson — Because I mean, you’ve put in so much time you mean now that you you’re able to get things done that quicker than you couldn’t before because people know who you are, they’re interested in what you’re doing, right?Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, it’s true.Dave Ferguson — And I think that’s true with all of us. Our influence will just continue to grow if we stay faithful to this.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s great. So I want to, I’m going to, we’re going to talk about where you can get the book in a minute, but just before we get there, of the four, this book’s been out now for a while and it’s out in the world. It’s, you know, as an author, I know that’s a very different experience. You go from writing and then it goes out there and then people react to it.Rich Birch — Are there any of those four gauges that you’ve been surprised by the reaction or you’ve noted the reaction? Like, oh, that’s interesting. I’m hearing from people or I’ve seen, you know, maybe it’s a conversation or that sort of thing that any four of those have kind of bubbled up in in discussion.Dave Ferguson — I think the one, I think that’s what surprised me so far in the conversation is how important the physical gauge, how, how underestimated it is and how important it is.Rich Birch — Oh, interesting. Tell me more.Dave Ferguson — I was just, I was just in a conversation this morning with somebody who’s telling me that he’s really been working on these four gauges and for him in the last year’s dropped 40 pounds. And he’s like, it has, it has really shifted my influence, my, my leadership.Dave Ferguson — He said, I just, I feel more confident walking into a room. And I, yeah, I think probably as Christian leaders, we probably downplay that one the most. And I'm I am surprised.Rich Birch — Right.Dave Ferguson — I’m not saying it’s the most important of the four… Rich Birch — No. Yeah. Dave Ferguson — …but I am surprised how important it is and the feedback I’m getting on it.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I can see that. I can see that for sure.Dave Ferguson — Yeah, I mean we’re whole people.Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, the, the days I ride that Peloton in the morning, I’m better at, I’m a better husband those days. I’m a better, you know, it’s, it just works out, which is, yeah, that’s really cool.Rich Birch — All right. So we want to, so when I, as I’ve been going through this, what I’ve been struck by is, man, I think this could be a real gift for our team’s to go through together. i think this could be a great tool for our staff teams. Maybe if I’m an executive pastor, it’s like, Hey, what if we went through this with our senior leaders first? And then maybe we roll it out to our teams or something like that. Where can people pick up copies of this book? Where do we want to send them online to get them? I’m assuming Amazon. Is there anywhere else we want to send them?Dave Ferguson — You know what? Let me give you two things that comes to mind. One is if they’re ready to make a commitment, say, hey, I want to be a multiplier. If you go exponential.org/multiplier, exponential.org/multiplier, there’s a place there where you can say, hey, I want to be a multiplier.Dave Ferguson — We’ll explain how you can be involved in meetups and cohorts and resource. We actually have a multiplier digital check-in. So you can actually do this online every day, that kind of stuff. So that’s one place that would be, I think, really fun.Dave Ferguson — But you’re right, um a lot of people are using it as a book to go over with their with their staff or with their teams or even their networks. And if they’re going to get, I think it’s like six or seven or more, maybe it’s a dozen, somewhere in that neighborhood, you’re going to get more than few, go ahead and email me and I’ll tell you you get a bulk discount. And that’s dave@exponential.orgRich Birch — Great.Dave Ferguson — dave@exponential.org – Say, hey, I’m going to do this with my team. How can I get a bulk discount? And my assistant, Sarah or me, will get back to you and let you know how you can do that.Rich Birch — Yes, that’s fantastic. Friends, I don’t say this with every author that comes on, but I really, I would highly endorse, would recommend that you do that. I think this could be the book you should pick up maybe this summer, read it by yourself, read it with a small group of people. I do think this could be, I think it’s a critical resource. I think it’s, I think this is more than just like, hey, it’s another book. You know, I think there’s a real potential here for this to shift the conversation in a really positive way in the broader church. So I would love more people to pick it up. Well, Dave, this has been incredible. I really appreciate you being here today. Any final words as we kind of land today’s episode?Dave Ferguson — I would probably come back to, if I was going leave people with one thought, is just just remember that you’re going to reproduce who you are and what you do.Rich Birch — So good. Appreciate you, Dave. Thanks so much. We want to send people to exponential.org. Is there anywhere else online we want them to go if they want to track with you or with the movement or anything like that?Dave Ferguson — I mean um I’m on most of the socials, so you can follow me there. DaveFerguson.org, DaveFerguson.org, if, you know, for some reason you want me to speak or do something or find other books that I’ve written.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Thanks for being here today, sir. Appreciate that.Dave Ferguson — Hey, my pleasure.

In this commemorative worship service, we listened to historic sermons from John Winthrop, John Witherspoon, Martin Luther King Jr., and Billy Graham, while singing enduring hymns that have shaped the faith of generations of Americans. Together, we were reminded that while history changes, the gospel remains the same, drawing us to the Lord’s Table.

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Eric Holmstrom, Lead Pastor of Purpose Church in Pomona, California. Founded more than 150 years ago, Purpose Church has a rich legacy of ministry and is currently experiencing significant growth following a healthy leadership transition. In this conversation, Eric shares lessons from succeeding a beloved long-tenured pastor, building on an existing culture, and leading a historic church into a new season of impact. Are you preparing for a succession transition—or wondering how to lead after a highly respected predecessor? Eric offers practical wisdom on navigating change with humility, honoring the past, and creating momentum for the future. Following a beloved predecessor. // Succeeding a pastor who led for 31 years can feel intimidating, and Eric is refreshingly honest about the insecurities he faced. During the transition process, he wrestled with feelings of inadequacy and wondered whether he was the right person for the role. Yet he found confidence not in his abilities, but in God's calling. A defining moment came on the morning of the congregational vote when he reflected on Isaiah 41:13: “I am the Lord your God who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, do not fear; I will help you.” That promise became an anchor throughout the transition. The gift of a healthy handoff. // Eric credits much of the success of the transition to the generosity and wisdom of former lead pastor Glenn Gunderson. During the public handoff, Glenn introduced Eric to the congregation as “your new lead pastor” and then added, “and my new lead pastor.” That simple statement communicated trust, unity, and support. Glenn also intentionally stepped back for several months to allow Eric to build relationships with the congregation before gradually returning to participate in ministry. The result was a transition marked by health rather than division. Focus on what only you can do. // One of Eric's biggest adjustments was determining how to spend his time as lead pastor. He quickly realized he could be involved in almost anything, but shouldn't be. Instead, he narrowed his focus to vision, spiritual direction, staff development, and culture. While pastoral care remains important, he sees his primary role through the lens of Ephesians 4: equipping leaders who then shepherd and disciple others throughout the church. You are not the exception—you are the example. // One of the most significant initiatives Eric introduced was an employee spiritual commitment for church staff. He noticed a tendency among ministry leaders to unintentionally exempt themselves from practices they encourage others to embrace. Reading Scripture, serving, giving, participating in groups, and pursuing spiritual growth are not just expectations for church members—they are expectations for staff as well. After months of discussion, clarification, and prayer, the entire staff committed to a shared set of spiritual standards designed to strengthen culture and integrity across the organization. Building an intentional invite culture. // Purpose Church has also seen momentum through strategic “Sunday Funday” invite events. Rather than creating dramatically different experiences, these Sundays closely resemble a normal weekend service while adding elements that make inviting easier. Eric intentionally tells the congregation exactly what will be taught and who the message is designed for, helping members identify specific people to invite. This approach has contributed to increased attendance, more baptisms, and a growing number of people taking first steps toward faith. Shepherd people where they are. // Looking back, one of Eric's biggest lessons is the importance of meeting people where they are emotionally during a transition. Some church members were grieving the departure of a beloved pastor, while others were brand new and excited about the future. Rather than forcing everyone into the same experience, Eric sought to pastor each person according to their unique journey. This posture of empathy helped create trust during a potentially difficult season. To learn more about Purpose Church, visit purposechurch.com or follow their ministry online for resources, messages, and updates. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school's facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they're here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad you’ve decided to tune in and you’re going to be rewarded for that today. We’re having a conversation that I know there’s a whole bunch of leaders that are on the front end of this decision. And today you’re going to get a chance to kind of peek up over the horizon and see potentially where your church is going to be in a few years. You’re going to want to stick around for this entire conversation. We’ve got Eric Holmstrom with us. He is the lead pastor of Purpose Church, which is in Pomona, California. Rich Birch — It originally started as Spadra, if I’m pronouncing correct, Baptist Church 150 years ago. It’s one of the fastest growing churches in the country. It’s diverse, multi-generational of every age and stage. And Eric has been the lead pastor since 2024. Welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Eric Holmstrom — Well, thank you so much, Rich, for having me. I am a huge fan of you and what you’re doing. I love how you’re supporting and helping church leaders and ministry leaders. So thanks for letting me join you today.Rich Birch — Oh, come on. That’s super kind. Glad you’re here and really looking forward to learning from you today. Why don’t you kind of give us a bit of your story and tell us a little bit about Purpose and kind of set the context for us.Eric Holmstrom — Yeah, well, Rich, that’s really cool too that you knew the name of our original church. It was Spadra Baptist, I think, was back in the day.Rich Birch — Spadra.Eric Holmstrom — And it’s actually, our church is 156 years old. So our church was started three years before the city of Pomona even became a city. And so a group of people came into this area and felt God calling them to plant a church here. And for 156 years, we’ve been in different parts of the city, but always here in Pomona, feeling called by God here. And so I am lead pastor number 19. Rich Birch — Wow.Eric Holmstrom — And so I’m just a blip on the radar here. And unless Jesus returns, Lord willing, there will be lead pastor 21, 20, or 20, 21, 22, 23. And they won’t even remember me. They won’t even know anything about me and God will continue to do a great work through this church. Eric Holmstrom — So I came here, my wife Sarah and I came here. We had one kid at the time, Charlie, and we came here 13 years ago. And you know felt like, this is a great, healthy church. The lead pastor, our our former lead pastor, Glenn Gunderson, just an amazing man of God. Him and his wife, Kimberly, and their family, they led here for 31 years as our lead pastor and just such a legacy leader.Eric Holmstrom — So when we got here, I started as the high school pastor and, I you know, wasn’t sure how long we’d be here. Loved the ministry, loved that ah there is a multi-generational, very diverse congregation here in terms of even diverse socioeconomically.Eric Holmstrom — So I love the opportunity to get to do youth ministry. That’s what I was passionate about and excited about and just wanted to faithfully follow God. I mean, that’s where my story of faith really began was going into my freshman year of high school. That’s when I got saved. That’s when I gave my life to Christ. I was at a camp, summer camp, went there looking for a girl and I found God. And my life was forever changed because of that, because of this camp and the local church that discipled me.Eric Holmstrom — And so got into youth ministry, came here, ah was a high school pastor for 10 years here, did a total of 18 years in youth ministry, and then began to sense that God was calling me and my family to step into this new season. And our lead pastor was encouraging of that. He really saw that in me. Eric Holmstrom — But then in our church polity, in our structure here, there had to be a church vote. And so I interviewed, got grilled by, search committee…Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Holmstrom — …had an amazing, you know experience, a challenging. And at the end of it, uh, you know, we went before the congregation and there was a vote and I got enough votes to become the next lead pastor. Rich Birch — Love it. Eric Holmstrom — And the baton was passed and it was such a healthy transition. Our, our former lead pastor, pastor Glenn, I’ll never forget on that that ah Sunday when he passed the baton to me, he said to our whole church, he said, this is Eric, your new lead pastor, and this is Eric, my new lead pastor.Rich Birch — Oh, wow. What a gift.Eric Holmstrom — And so he just got it. It was a powerful statement and very humbled. And and yeah, and then he him and his family kind of for six months ah gave a little space for me to bond with the congregation.Eric Holmstrom — And then their, you know, they’re back in the rotation now. We see them about once a month and then they’re with their grandkids and doing other things. But ah but he preaches here still. Pastor Glenn preaches here about three or four times a year still. Rich Birch — Love it. Eric Holmstrom — And so it’s been a beautiful, healthy transition.Rich Birch — That’s so cool. I love the fact that you’re, you know, you know, there’s 19 pastors been there over those 150 years. I love that context of you setting yourself in like, hey, ah you’re in one in a line.Rich Birch — A couple of years ago, I was in London, England, and was at a church and was talking to the vicar. And he was, we were just walking around their building… Eric Holmstrom — Wow. Rich Birch — …and he said, yeah, this wall over here is a thousand years old. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah. Rich Birch — And, and then he had similar, they have ah really literally written on the wall, all the pastors through the years.Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — And he pointed at some guy and said, that guy is written in a play by Shakespeare. Like he’s literally a character in Shakespeare.Eric Holmstrom — No way.Rich Birch — Yeah. So I was like, man, that’s just a, you know, thinking about legacy this is a very different way to think about it.Eric Holmstrom — Oh, oh, oh.Rich Birch — Right. And I’ve been around forever. Well, let’s go back to those early…Eric Holmstrom — And Rich, I, I…Rich Birch — Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead.Eric Holmstrom — Oh, was just gonna I wish you could come and see our church because we have this like heritage wall of like, you know, our church, different seasons, doing different things, buildings, groups, whatever. And there’s a wall of all of us like lead pastors. And you should see that wall. These lead pastors are like the most distinguished, like, you know, FB then their last name, Reverend, Doctor. And they’ve got the suits and the glorious beards and they look amazing. And then there’s me, this buffoon, who is this guy? Like who how did if he make this cut?Rich Birch — One of these things doesn’t belong.Eric Holmstrom — I don’t fit in, but I’m just humbled and honored that God would choose me. D.L. Moody has that line, or his son, Paul Moody. D.L. Moody is one of my mentors, and ah you know historical mentors. But his son, Paul, said that ah about his dad, he said, D.L. Moody never got over that God would use him, despite all of his handicaps. And that ah his wife, the love of his life would choose to love him.Eric Holmstrom — And I just feel like I’m that I'm that man. I'm just I’m so amazed and honored that I get to be a part of this legacy church and that my wife and my family love me. And that, you know, I’m just, I feel very grateful and humbled.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so cool. Well, let’s go back to those early days of the transition. You know, what’s going through your head when you’re following in the footsteps of someone who’s been there for 31 years? That’s a significant time to step in on. What were what were you aware of, you know, in those early days? What was kind of thing that was bubbling around in your head?Eric Holmstrom — Oh, oh my gosh. Okay. The thing bubbling around my head is, am I an idiot? Like why? This is like following Rick Warren. This is like following Billy Graham. Like why? I mean, Pastor Glenn Gunderson is one, just he’s nationally known, internationally. He’s he’s just such an incredible, amazing pastor and leader, and 31 years here at our church, just faithfully leading.Eric Holmstrom — And so why would I want to follow him? Like that, it just, ah you know, so there was a lot of insecurity and just fear around that. I’m thinking through the whole process for anyone that’s gone through a similar process, just feeling very vulnerable, honestly. Eric Holmstrom — I mean, lots of people in our church and different groups were having conversations about me and whether they saw me in this role and, ah you know, that that just felt very exposing and and made me feel very vulnerable.Eric Holmstrom — And at the same time, like really excited, like really the going, wow, like this, this would be a dream. You know, I think for me, I went through kind of a life planning, my wife and I went through a life planning process with an executive pastor of another church and and and a life coach. It was amazing experience. And basically what surfaced for me is, you know, I feel like my calling is to lead every generation to leverage everything they have to advance God’s kingdom.Eric Holmstrom — And so I really kind of grew through my ministry years of going, I really am passionate about leading every generation. And leading every generation to make a mark, to to leave a legacy, to do something great with their lives.Eric Holmstrom — When I gave my life to Christ going into my freshman year of high school, I remember praying, Lord, ah I’ll follow you. I’ll become a Christian, but you’ve got to make it an adventure. Because to me, I felt like, well, maybe being a Christian would be a boring thing. And I felt like God was laughing going, you have no idea what adventure is. Adventure is being a Jesus follower. And and so I just want people to wake up to the adventure of following Christ. Eric Holmstrom — And so I had those mixture of emotions of insecurity, fear. I remember the morning of the congregational vote where, you know, we had done this like six months of work and interviews.Eric Holmstrom — And it all came down to how many people were going to gather in the room, how many people were going to vote.Eric Holmstrom — There there had to be at least in our polity structure, at least two thirds of the people had to vote in favor of me being the next lead pastor. And I’m getting calls and texts from buddies who are like, Eric, we’re cheering you on. Can’t make it tonight. Sorry, man, have this pizza dinner. And I’m like, I’m like, bro, I need you there. Like I need you in the room.Eric Holmstrom — But but anyway, that morning, I was on a run and just feeling so insecure, feeling, you know, Satan was just bringing to mind all my sin, all my shortcomings. And man, the Lord met me. I feel like I got this vision and this picture of Jesus holding my right hand. And I was going, wow. Like it was just powerful. But then I’m like, okay, where is that in the Bible? And then the Lord led me to Isaiah 41:13, “for I am the Lord, your God who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, do not fear. I will help you.”Eric Holmstrom — And was going, okay, if, if, if we’re going to step into this next season and Lord willing, you know, we, we’d love to be here 20, 30 years, however long the Lord would have us here. I believe Jesus is holding my right hand and he is leading me and helping me through our amazing staff and our board and our congregation and our volunteers and everyone involved.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. And, you know, for context, a part of the reason why we’re talking to you is because your church has been flagged as one of the fastest growing churches. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — So listeners, like, let’s put this in context here. This transition happened and the church continued to accelerate and reach more people…Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — …which I think can be a fear on the on the side of maybe the departing leaders. They’re like, hey, what’s going to happen? Is this thing going to go sideways? Well, it hasn’t. It’s actually continued to accelerate. So, and I even have seen this even as we’ve you know kind of interacted today. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — How do you think about honoring what’s happened, so honoring the past…Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — …honoring the leadership and what’s happened there, but still really continuing to lead god lead the church into what God has for the church, into something new. How has that tension, I’ve seen you model it already in this conversation…Eric Holmstrom — Yeah, yeah. Rich Birch — …but how does that work out you know in your leadership?Eric Holmstrom — Oh, that’s such a great question. And what’s awesome is like, we don’t have to fake it here at Purpose Church because our lead pastor, our former lead pastor, Glenn Gunderson, did such an amazing job creating a church culture here where, you know, he used to always say, ah this church is is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.Eric Holmstrom — He would always talk about, um we’re a church that goes after the one.Eric Holmstrom — And we have ah a… a high celebrate recovery culture here, model here of people come as they are. And and really it’s it’s it’s a beautiful church to be a part of in terms of, you know, we’ve had people on our staff who were homeless sleeping on our church campus and then we offered them a job. They went through recovery. Now they’re leading different ministry areas. Eric Holmstrom — We’ve got people on our staff who were very high up in, in, industries that ah are just really dark and broken. And God has redeemed them and we brought them on our church staff and now they’re working for God’s kingdom and doing great things.Eric Holmstrom — And so, our church culture has always been one of, especially under Pastor Glenn’s leadership, of we want to reach people that are far from God. Our vision is everyone everywhere following Jesus.Eric Holmstrom — We literally mean everyone, wherever they’re at, following Jesus, which means there’s a starting point for their relationship with God. And they continue, that we continue being discipled, continue growing in our relationship So what I’m trying to do is, especially as I started in this role, is honor what’s been, because we’ve got this amazing momentum moving forward because of their hard work.Eric Holmstrom — And because of this church culture that has been created. So we’re trying to honor the past, trying to thank God for the ways that he has led our church and then continue to move into the future and and start new ways of reaching people through some invite Sundays that we’ve done through different sermon series, through reaching out to our neighborhood and our community more.Eric Holmstrom — And so, it’s been an awesome progression and you’re right. We have seen a lot of growth ah while Pastor Glenn was our lead pastor and by God’s grace, he’s continued to grow this church over the last almost two years that I’ve been the lead pastor.Rich Birch — Yes, that’s great. So let’s again, we’re thinking about these early days, you’re in this chair. How did you get clarity on where you should be spending your time? It’s an interesting shift, right?Eric Holmstrom — Yes.Rich Birch — You go from being the person on the team to now you’re responsible for the team, ultimate flexibility, you can make up your own day.Eric Holmstrom — Yes. Yes.Rich Birch — How did you figure that out?Eric Holmstrom — Yes. Yes. And that’s the word, that’s the hardest part for me is in this role as lead pastor, I could get involved in anything I wanted to, right? I could schedule a meeting with anyone. And and so I had to quickly discern, okay, what does the church need most from me? And what is it that only I can do and only I should be doing? Eric Holmstrom — And so what kind of quickly surfaced for me is I need to be giving my best energy towards what’s the vision and direction of our church.Eric Holmstrom — What’s the spiritual direction of our church? Now, I’m not just casting vision by myself. I’ve got an amazing executive pastor, Pastor Greg, who he he’s he’s a rock star. I mean, he hired me here at this church. And then through this process, I became his boss. Rich Birch — Oh wow.Eric Holmstrom — And he is just, he is such an amazing, humble, incredible executive pastor.Eric Holmstrom — He’s been a lead pastor before and has no desire to be a lead pastor again. So he is just been, he was such a champion carrying our church through that season of transition and now being an amazing executive pastor.Eric Holmstrom — So, you know, we’re developing vision through time with my executive pastor and our strategic team, our pastors. But at the end of the day, I’m seeking the Lord going, okay, God, taking in all of this inside and time away with you. What’s the vision and direction you’re leading our church in? What’s the spiritual direction? And then for me, a core role that I have here is developing and discipling and training up our staff, our pastors and our leaders. And then, of course, as a pastor, I love doing congregational care and and there is time built into my schedule for that. But honestly, if I’m doing my job best, according to Ephesians 4:12, I’m equipping the saints for ministry. Rich Birch — Yeah.Eric Holmstrom — And so really what I need to be doing is pouring into our staff here, who are then caring for and ministering to our congregation, many of whom I only interact with, you know, many of our, much of our congregation, I only interact with on Sunday morning when I see them or, um you know, if they happen to come forward or we send an email, it’s really our church staff and then our high capacity volunteers who are discipling, mentoring, coaching, walking with the rest of our church. So that’s where I’ve been focusing a lot of my attention.Eric Holmstrom — Also on culture. That’s become a really important one. You know I’m constantly thinking through, okay, what do I need to be focusing on externally for our church?Eric Holmstrom — But then what about internally? How do we be the healthiest we can be as an organization and as a church? And so we did something this last year, we basically took a year and said, we are going to develop ah what we ended up calling an employee spiritual commitment, where we are making some decisions as a staff and a team This is who we are going to be. This is going to be our culture. Eric Holmstrom — Because Rich, I have discovered that the longer you become, longer you’ve been a Christian and and and once you get on staff or become a high capacity volunteer or whatever, Satan likes to trick us into thinking that we become the exception. Eric Holmstrom — And so what I’m telling our staff all the time is you are not the exception. You are the example. Rich Birch — good.Eric Holmstrom — As soon as you join a staff, you start thinking, you know what? I don’t need to tithe here or give, that’s what other people do. I don’t need to serve because I work here at the church. I don’t need to read my Bible for my own intimacy and time with the Lord. I just read my Bible to prepare sermons. I don’t need to be in a life group. That would be hard for me as a church staff member. That’s for ever…. So I’m gonna tell everybody else, you need to be reading your Bible, you need to be tithing, you need to be serving, you to be in a life group, but those things don’t apply for me because I’m the exception.Eric Holmstrom — Wrong. Peter talks about it in 1 Peter 5. Be an example. Be an example the flock.Rich Birch — Love that.Eric Holmstrom — So we made some commitments and we worked on them. We prayed through them. We talked about them with our staff and we shared them and then gave people four months to say, hey, if you’re not about this, that’s okay.Eric Holmstrom — You’re still Christian. You just can’t work here, right? And like try to be as gracious and kind as we as we could be say, hey, we’re not saying you’re not a Christian.Rich Birch — Wow. Yes.Eric Holmstrom — We’re not saying you don’t love Jesus. We’re just saying. These are going to be the commitments we are going to keep as the staff and the leaders of Purpose Church so that we can look at our congregation and say, we want to be an example to you, not an exception to you.Eric Holmstrom — So I’ve been really wrestling with that culture of our staff, culture of our church, and then also kind of vision direction, spiritual direction of of where we’re going and developing.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. I’d love to talk a little bit more on the rollout of the commitments. I think that’s that’s amazing. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — And um you know you know you brought it up there. Hey, we’re going to give the four months for you to wrestle through this and think about it. Maybe just double click on that because I think it’s great that you’re calling your team to that.Eric Holmstrom — Okay.Rich Birch — But just give me a little more about well how that went. What would you do different if you’d done it again? What went well? What didn’t go well?Eric Holmstrom — Totally.Rich Birch — What would you advise the clients if they called and said, hey, we’re thinking about doing something like that?Eric Holmstrom — Yeah, so it really started with me and our executive pastor and our chief of operations here. We were in a meeting and we were like, look, we just think it’s important that our whole staff embody these values. And then we asked each other, hey, would we be willing to lose amazing people who are doing amazing work, but don’t necessarily fit with our culture? Like, would we be willing to lose them? And we all looked at each other and said, you know what? It’s worth it. It’s worth it. It feels like the right thing to do. It feels like the step that honors God.Eric Holmstrom — And so it started with that commitment and that that, you know, recognition, like we may lose people in the process. And then, you know, we started to work on it with our pastors and our staff, roll it out. But before we did that too, we we sent it to our lawyer and we sent it to our trustees.Eric Holmstrom — They looked through it. We sent it to our lawyer because they’re like, are we doing anything illegal here? And ah our lawyer wrote back the most beautiful, you know, I guess maybe this is one of the ways you know, like, you’re you’re a lead pastor is like when when when you get an email from your lawyer that’s like really affirming, you start crying.Eric Holmstrom — And so I’m just like, she she she sent me an email, she sent us an email and she said, I stand by all of these commitments. And if I lived in your area, because she’s, think she’s in Alabama. She said, if I lived in your area, I would go to your church because I would want to be led by a staff like this. Rich Birch — That’s so good.Eric Holmstrom — And so it was very, very affirming. So it was important to run it, you know, to collaborate with our pastors, run it through our lawyer, ah run it through our trustees, getting all the input, all those things. And then we shared it with our staff.Eric Holmstrom — I wrote kind of like a cover letter for, hey, here’s my heart behind it. It’s because I want you to be a healthy leader.Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Holmstrom — It’s because I want you to be an example. It’s because I want your work in ministry to be meaningful. And I care about you as a leader. And I care about the health of our church. And then we shared it with the staff and said, hey, you’ve got, I think it was three three months to pray on this. And then we need you to sign this and commit to this as we go into the new year together.Eric Holmstrom — And and and thankfully, everybody committed to it. We had, but but that three to four months also gave opportunity for conversations. And we invited those. You said, hey, there’s anything unclear in this for your situation or your season of life, like, let’s talk about this.Eric Holmstrom — And it was really, really great. It gave us a lot of opportunities to have conversation, clarifying conversations, and to help people not misunderstand things, but to understand the heart and and how it might apply to them.Eric Holmstrom — And it’s been really cool to see our staff… Rich Birch — that’s cool. Eric Holmstrom — …invested more in groups, invested more in setting that example for our church.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. I love that. And, you know, what even a great kind of alignment thing to go through as you’re starting to lead, you know, to say, hey, let’s try to define what is going to be really important for us. Rich Birch — So going in a totally different direction. You mentioned it as we kind of flew through there and love invite culture stuff. And so you mentioned invite Sundays. And so that caught my eye. Tell me about those. How have they function? How does that look different than from what you’ve done before? Yeah, just kind of unpack that a little bit for us.Eric Holmstrom — Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rich, I’ve heard on your podcast, which by the way, I’m a big fan of unSeminary. I think your podcast is awesome. And I’m a big fan of seminary. I went to seminary. I went to two different seminaries.Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Holmstrom — I love seminary, but I think we can learn so much from each other. And so to everyone listening, I’m just so grateful you’re joining us today. And I’m always getting on our staff here as they’re joining, as they’re, you know, becoming a seminary student, as they’re going to graduate school to, hey, continue to serve in a local church.Eric Holmstrom — When I went to seminary, there were several students, colleagues who were only doing seminary. They were disconnected from the local church. And I’m like, what are you doing? You’re missing out on applying what you’re learning. Rich Birch — It’s so true.Eric Holmstrom — But there’s so much that seminary can’t teach you or doesn’t teach you. And so podcasts like yours, Rich, like the one you have here is absolutely amazing. Eric Holmstrom — One the things you’ve talked about on your podcast is how most people are invited to church by somebody else. So so we do you know promotions on social media and on our website and you know all that stuff. But we wanted to prioritize equipping our church and giving our church family an excuse for to invite their friends and their family to church.Eric Holmstrom — And so we have four or five of these invite Sundays every year where we try to keep them very similar to what somebody would experience on a Sunday morning, just heightened a little bit. So we’ll get bounce houses. We’ll we’ll bring a food truck in. We’ve even kind of experimented with like launching into a series. So we did a spiritual warfare series in the fall called “The War You’re In.”Eric Holmstrom — And it launched on our invite Sunday. And the the the idea was, let’s give these new people who are coming chapter one of this story of this book and see if it piques their interest. But weeks leading up to that, we’re telling our church family, we call them Sunday Funday. how we kind of brand them, but we tell our church family, hey, Sunday Funday is coming up. Don’t come to church alone. Invite your neighbor, invite your friends. Who’s your one more that doesn’t know Jesus? This is a great opportunity to invite them. And and every Sunday here at Purpose Church is a great Sunday to bring somebody. Rich Birch — Right.Eric Holmstrom — I do a salvation message about once a month or so. We’ve seen a lot of people surrender their lives to Christ this year. We’ve had more baptisms this year than we had in the last 10 years. It’s just been incredible. So we’re seeing people take those first steps, but we’re trying to equip our church family. We’re telling them, hey, here’s what we’re talking about.Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Holmstrom — Leading into Easter. I mean, Easter is an invite Sunday for us. It’s a big outreach Sunday for us. So multiple weeks leading up to Easter, I’m telling our church family, this is what I’m talking about. You know, this this Easter, last Easter, our theme was a second chance. So I’m telling our church family, hey, if you’ve got somebody in your life who needs a second chance, this is their Easter. This is the service for them. Eric Holmstrom — So I’m trying to, we’re trying to help our congregation get excited about what’s happening here, equipping them with flyers, talking about what we’ll be talking about, making it an environment through ah worship, greeting the message through the atmosphere and the environment. I mean, I think one of our secret sauces here at Purpose Church is we don’t have the biggest budget, but we’ve got big hearts. Rich Birch — That’s right.Eric Holmstrom — The people of Purpose Church have big hearts. They love people well. They make people feel at home and welcomed here. And so we want to leverage that. We want to see new people coming on our campus and and giving all of us an opportunity to welcome them, love them. And and and we’re seeing people stick around, which has been exciting.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so cool. Love that. Just to call out friends, ah there’s a lot there that you should rip off if you’re listening in. There’s so good. I love that. But one of the things that many churches miss on trying to build invite culture is we we think that like if we kind of surprise our people, that they’ll like that. It’s like, oh, there’s some big thing happening on that day. You’re going to want to invite your friends to be here.Rich Birch — That’s actually not how people think. You need, they need to be very predictable. The fact that you’re saying, this is exactly what we’re going to be teaching on. Do you know someone who asks questions like this, this, and this? You need to get them to be here that day. That is a great best practice there for sure. I love I love that.Eric Holmstrom — Oh, thanks Rich.Rich Birch — As opposed to like, oh, hey, it’s going to be great, um you know which just doesn’t mean anything to people.Eric Holmstrom — Yep. And and we used to do like Easter services at a different location, you know, with more seating.Rich Birch — Right.Eric Holmstrom — But we’ve just gone, man, we want the experience to feel as similar as possible on a Sunday morning. So our church family’s equipped to know what are we going to be talking about? What’s going to be happening? But then for that new person who comes, we want them to feel the familiarity of the parking experience, of dropping off their kids, of where they’re sitting.Eric Holmstrom — And so that as they’re making that decision, “Am I going to come back again?”, they’ll know what that experience is going to be like. And then of course, we have an amazing next steps team that’s following up with these people. That is, we’re getting information. We’re inviting them to scan a QR code to connect with us. We have a gift for them. And then our team is doing a great job of following up with them and helping them take the next steps that they want to take.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. Well, let’s think about the succession question again, you know, going back to that conversation. So for a pastor who might be listening in today, who is, they are the person that is going to be, you know, taking the baton. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — Maybe they’re before the actual transition, but they’re thinking about their first 90 days, 100 days.Eric Holmstrom — Yes. Yes.Rich Birch — What would what advice would you give to them? How how would you help them think about their their their initial days as they’re launching off?Eric Holmstrom — Oh, that’s so great. Okay. So the first thing I tried to do was to make a commitment that I’m going to shepherd people and pastor people right where they are. And what I mean by that is there were people in our church who were grieving that our former lead pastor was leaving. And what they didn’t need from me was vision, vision, vision. What they needed from me is, Hey, I get it. I’m I’m sad too. Like I’m going to miss him.Eric Holmstrom — And and so our job was to shepherd and pastor them. And by the way, I told this to all of our staff and our pastors. I said, don’t feel like you have to you know hype me up or or if people are sad that things are changing, that you have to try to convince them. Like there’s that whole change curve. It’s going to take people time and people are on different places. And so shepherding and pastoring people who were really struggling and and having a difficult time with the change, meeting them where they’re at.Eric Holmstrom — There were also people who had recently come to our church. I just met ah a guy last Sunday who’s been coming for like a couple months now and he’s brand new to our church. And he’s like, man, I love it here. Love you, Pastor Eric. And and there was a guy who preached like a couple of weeks ago. I think he like led the church for like 30 years or something. He was great. He was amazing. Eric Holmstrom — I’m like, Oh my goodness. You don’t know pastor Glenn Gunderson at all. You don’t know him.Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Holmstrom — And and so what he needs is vision for where we’re going.Rich Birch — Yes.Eric Holmstrom — So pastoring and shepherding people right where they are, instead of trying to force everybody into one category.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Eric Holmstrom — Second thing that I just felt the Lord leading me to do that I’ve just continued to do is I start every single sermon the exact same way. I tell our church every single Sunday, I greet the new people and it’s it’s a for everybody, whether you’re new or you’ve been a part of our church forever.Eric Holmstrom — I greet them the same way. I say, I love you. And most importantly, God loves you. And that sort of came out of me asking this question, what do I wanna be remembered for? Like, what’s the thing that at the end of the day, these people are not gonna remember all my sermons, all my points, but if they if they remembered one thing about me as their pastor, what would it be? And it’s that I would want them to know I love them and that God loved them.Rich Birch — That’s so good.Eric Holmstrom — And 1 Thessalonians 2:8 really like has been my ministry motto. Paul says, because we loved you so much, we cared for you, we shared the gospel and we shared our lives as well. Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Holmstrom — So Paul’s talking about this this ministry that’s born out of a deep love for the people that you’re pastoring. And so I I’m always praying right before I preach. I pray the same thing. God, would you put your message in me like a fire in my bones? And would you help me to see these people the way you see them and to feel about them the way you feel about them?Rich Birch — That’s so good.Eric Holmstrom — And I’ve had moments when I’ve been preaching where it’s like, I just feel like the Spirit of God deposits into my heart his incredible love for them. And I start tearing up over something.Eric Holmstrom — But but I tell them every Sunday, I love you. And most importantly, God loves you. So that when I give them a convicting word, a challenging word, something where I’m calling them to a higher standard, they know it’s coming from a pastor that doesn’t want to beat them up or that doesn’t care about them or is trying to build some platform.Eric Holmstrom — It comes from a pastor who loves them and who is deeply, deeply convinced that God loves them. So I’m sharing that with them um each Sunday. And I’ve heard from a lot of people that that that really resonates and and feels significant for them.Rich Birch — Yeah it’s good. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah. Rich Birch — I think that’s great. I think the the thing to point out there that I think is, I just think is amazing is good is I think oftentimes we when we think about that kind of transition we can go to the like immediate the tactics or the whatever you know like oh make sure you meet with all these people or whatever. And what I’ve seen in churches that this transition has gone well is there’s a humility with both leaders, which both of you, which you have described him in these conversations today, like that, you know, when Glenn passed it to you, there was ah that humble moment. And he obviously continues to, you know, he gave some space, but has continued to handle himself in a humble way.Eric Holmstrom — Yeah.Rich Birch — You’re handling yourself with humility as well. And, you know, the, I like that you’re pushing on really ah a deeper issue, which is like, do you love these people at the end of the day? You know you’re not taking over some organization this is a family that you’re called to lead. And so I mean I think that’s just so good. That’s fantastic. Eric Holmstrom — Yeah. And then, Rich, I would just want to say too, in addition to that is then starting to cast some vision and direction for, okay, where is God taking this church? So one of the things we did is we started to a new rhythm of Vision Sunday once a year. So we actually, it’s coming up in a couple Sundays. We try to do it right before summer. We do it actually, it aligns with our fiscal budget year. So one of the things that we tried to make a a commitment around is, hey, we’re gonna be a vision-driven church. We’re gonna have vision-driven budgeting. So it’s not just, hey, can I get $1,000 more than last year or whatever? It’s it’s what’s the vision that God has given you for your ministry, for your department, and we’re budgeting around that. Eric Holmstrom — But that starts with me as I’m with my team, I’m a collaborative visionary. And as I’m hearing from the Lord, what’s the vision and direction for our church? And so ah first Sunday of June, we do a big vision Sunday where we celebrate what God has been doing. And where we cast vision for the next year. And so that’s part of what I’m doing too.Rich Birch — That’s good.Eric Holmstrom — And what I did early on and continue to do is to keep vision in front of our church of where are we going? What things are we starting? What are we praying and hoping to see the Lord do? And what’s their part in that?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well, this has been a fantastic conversation. Any final words just as we wrap up today’s discussion?Eric Holmstrom — Yeah, absolutely. Well, I would just say that the last thing I would want to say is I think as as a lead pastor or, and if preaching is a high priority for you, recognizing that we do so much leadership through our preaching. Rich Birch — That’s the truth.Eric Holmstrom — And so that that became a really important thing for me in terms of figuring out, okay, how do I go about writing the sermon? How do I edit the sermon? How do I prepare and practice the sermon and then ultimately get some evaluation on the sermon?Eric Holmstrom — And so that’s been a journey for me of of learning how to do that well. And I think some of the things I’ve I’ve learned along the way is there’s parts of it you don’t love and that are more challenging. For me, it’s the editing. Eric Holmstrom — And I think a lot of preachers and pastors are probably like that. You know, on Mondays, I’ll start going, man, I think I only have a 15 minute sermon here. By Thursday, I’m like, I’ve got an 80 minute sermon here. And so the the I think the difference between good sermons and great sermons is great sermons are are are ones where we cut out the good stuff. It’s all good stuff, but we cut out the good stuff to make enough room for the great stuff. Eric Holmstrom — And then getting people’s feedback, you know? So after i write the sermon, I edit it, I still practice my sermons even before delivering them I have a rhythm of, they gotta be done by Thursdays because I wanna enjoy some of my weekend. And so I’m practicing my sermons, but then, after preaching my sermons, I have kind of an evaluation form that I give different people in our church to give me direct feedback because there’s things I’m not seeing.Eric Holmstrom — And especially leading up into Easter and some of these invite Sundays, I’ll actually deliver my sermon to several people on our staff. They’ll give me direct feedback. And sometimes it’s not what I want to hear. Sometimes the story I’m so excited about, they’re going, hey, you know what? I don’t think it fits here. Or and my sermons have always been better because of their feedback.Eric Holmstrom — And so that’s something I’m really passionate about is helping. Rich Birch — That’s good. Eric Holmstrom — We started a preacher’s club. That’s part of the, one of the things that I’m trying to do in terms of developing our ministry leaders. And so we started a preacher’s club where we meet once a month and, everyone gives, you know, or one or two people will give a 10 minute sermon and we give each other feedback. I share with them some tips and tricks, things I’m learning, and we watch other sermons and evaluate them. Eric Holmstrom — And so ah that that’s been an important aspect, I think, for me is really is realizing that that for for our church, 90% of our community interacts with me on a Sunday morning through my sermon. And so I want to be really intentional to shepherd and pastor and care for them and to give them the very best that I can. And so that’s been some of the process for me. Rich Birch — So good. That’s, that’s fantastic. That’s like a little preaching clinic you just gave us there. That’s so good. So many good things to unpack there. This has been a fantastic conversation, Eric. I really appreciate your time today. If, where do we want to send people online? If they want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them?Eric Holmstrom — Oh man, well, you could go to our church webpage, purposechurch.com. We’re on Instagram, Purpose Pomona. You could follow me on Instagram, eric.h.holmstrom. Good luck spelling that. But I would love to you know I would love to interact with you on Instagram. That’s kind of the only place that I’m at. But yeah, thank you. And Rich, this has been a really rich conversation rich rich conversation I appreciate you, man.Rich Birch — Nice.Eric Holmstrom — And I’m I'm grateful for your ministry.Rich Birch — Thanks so much for being here today.

As America celebrates its 250th anniversary, singer Steve Amerson encourages Christians to pray for the nation and for the men and women serving in Washington, D.C. Known by some as “America's Tenor,” Steve has sung on more than 175 feature films and has also ministered through music at Billy Graham Crusades.Twice a month, Steve travels to Capitol Hill to help lead worship in Statuary Hall and encourage members of Congress through prayer and handwritten notes. Listen as he shares why he believes the greatest battle in Washington is spiritual, not political—and how Christians can encourage their representatives during this historic milestone. Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio. Learn more about Steve's ministry in DC at his website, TheWordontheHill.org.If you'd like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net.If you'd like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

He’s known for his powerful singing voice. From Hollywood studios to platforms beside Billy Graham and Chuck Swindoll, Steve Amerson has carved out an unparalleled musical legacy. But on Chris Fabry Live, you’ll hear about a quiet ministry of words he has on Capitol Hill. As we hurtle toward the 250th anniversary of the country, don’t miss a conversation with Steve Amerson on Chris Fabry Live. Featured resource:The Word on the Hill ministry June thank you gift:One Blood: Parting Words to the Church on Race and Love by John M. Perkins Chris Fabry Live is listener-supported. To support the program, click here.Become a Back Fence Partner: https://moodyradio.org/donateto/chrisfabrylive/partnersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Suffering. Grief. Disappointment. Loss. Any one of these can shake us to our core. So how are we supposed to trust God when everything seems to go wrong? On this episode, Anne Graham Lotz (daughter of Billy Graham) and her daughter, Rachel-Ruth Lotz Wright, walk through the story of Joseph—a man who experienced betrayal, false accusation, and unfair circumstances that turned his life upside down. So how did Joseph remain steadfast in his faith? Anne and Rachel-Ruth explain how God's presence brings peace even in life's deepest pits. You'll discover why suffering is never wasted and how God uses even our hardest seasons to guide us, grow us, and bring about His greater purpose. SHOW NOTES: 413Podcast.com/408  Read the episode TRANSCRIPT in the show notes. Get my weekly email, Java with Jennifer, to be notified when a new podcast episode releases. Subscribe HERE.

In this episode the guys break down exactly when you should NOT add weight to the bar, including when you've already reached your strength ceiling, when your form isn't perfect, when you feel any pain or discomfort, after a bad night of sleep, and when you're in a calorie deficit.  They also get into a study showing exercise variety predicts longevity better than exercise volume, Sal's experience with a new peptide called 5-amino-1MQ through MPHormones, TMG as a creatine-stacking supplement, and the story of Pope John Paul II's assassination attempt and the remarkable forgiveness that followed. Then they coach live callers submitted through ⁠mplivecaller.com⁠. Sarah Beth from Mississippi on reverse dieting as a petite woman, Chelsea from Australia on training through pregnancy, Sandy from Connecticut with a 30-day check-in update, and Parker from Georgia on how to structure progression as an intermediate lifter returning to consistency. MAPS 15 BOGO —⁠ https://maps15bogo.com⁠ Buy 1 get 1 FREE — limited time (all 7 MAPS 15 programs same price) SPONSORS Rho Nutrition (liposomal NAD+ & Glutathione) —⁠ https://www.rhonutrition.com/discount/MINDPUMP⁠ Code: MINDPUMP — 20% off sitewide. Liquid liposomal delivery for cellular energy, recovery & oxidative stress support. Huel —⁠ https://huel.com/MINDPUMP⁠ Code: MINDPUMP — 15% off (new customers only). Ready-to-Drink: 35g protein, 7g fiber, 27 vitamins & minerals, no artificial sweeteners. Black Edition Powder: 40g protein. Complete nutrition for chaotic days. LMNT (electrolytes) —⁠ https://drinklmnt.com/MindPump⁠ Free 8-count sample pack with any purchase — no code needed. Citrus Salt, Raspberry Salt, Watermelon Salt & Orange Salt (2 of each). Submit a live caller question:⁠ https://mplivecaller.com⁠  Mind Pump Store:⁠ https://mindpumpstore.com⁠  Maps Fitness Products:⁠ https://mapsfitnessproducts.com⁠  Instagram: @mindpumpmedia   0:00 - Intro 2:40 - When you should NOT add weight to the bar — the full breakdown 5:23 - Reason #1: You've already hit your strength ceiling — what that looks like 11:07 - Reason #2: Your form isn't perfect — the leverage math that makes this critical 14:01 - Reason #3: You feel anything that isn't right — why every injury had a warning sign 16:19 - Reason #4: You had a bad night of sleep — the #1 predictor of injury in the data 17:47 - Reason #5: You're in a calorie deficit — why ramping intensity during a cut backfires 23:34 - Exercise variety study — more types of exercise = better longevity than more volume 29:01 - 5-amino-1MQ peptide — Sal's NP Hormones experience, NAD & energy 37:32 - TMG (betaine) — stacking with creatine for strength, power & body recomposition 41:03 - Pope John Paul II assassination attempt — forgiveness, redemption & Billy Graham story 50:08 - Meal replacement shakes as a fat loss strategy — when and how to use them correctly 56:03 - Reverse bands — why band-assisted pressing feels so different from band-resistant 1:01:38 - Caller: Sarah Beth (Mississippi) — petite woman, reverse diet, how high should she go? 1:20:35 - Caller: Chelsea (Australia) — 18 weeks pregnant, lost motivation, identity crisis 1:32:02 - Caller: Sandy (Connecticut) — 30-day check-in, big strength gains, community & letting people in 1:57:58 - Caller: Parker (Georgia) — intermediate lifter returning to consistency, how to structure progression