Podcasts about North Point

Sept. 30, 2026 When Northpoint Asset Management lost 1,500 doors overnight in a major institutional consolidation, CEO Dan French had to rebuild fast. In this episode, Dan joins host Pete Neubig to unpack what really happened when a large capital partner consolidated its portfolio onto a single property manager, the SFR churn rates operators rarely admit to publicly, and how a deliberate client-pruning strategy turned a painful loss into a leaner, more resilient business. Dan shares the leadership mindset that carried his team through the disruption, the "owner concierge desk" system Northpoint built to catch problematic clients early, and how the crisis accelerated a pivot into small multifamily and build-to-rent management, plus a referral opportunity for SFR managers who don't serve that market themselves.

En noviembre de 1919, la revista literaria United Amateur publicó por primera vez uno de los relatos más singulares y aclamados del ciclo del sueño de Lovecraft, que ajeno a las habituales encarnaciones del horror cósmico, nos traslada en esta ocasión al onírico viaje de Basil Elton, guardafaro de North Point, a través de un océano de terribles y fabulosos descubrimientos. Invocado desde las paginas de la narrativa completa de Valdemar Gótica, con la traducción de Francisco Torres Oliver, José María nebreda y Juan Antonio Molina-Foix, en alianza con Toliol, librero del Mal en Gigamesh. Acomódense pues amigos en su cubil favorito, apaguen las luces, enciendan una vela, y prepárense para sumergirse poco a poco en Las Tierras del Sueño, a bordo de "La nave Blanca". Hemos publicado un nuevo grimorio! Pueden hacerse con él a través del siguiente link: Vkm.is/ecosdemedianoche Y si les ha gustado el relato, háganse mecenas y ayúdennos a invocar a Cthulhu, adaptando los grandes maestros y maestras de la historia de la literatura de fantasía, terror y ciencia ficción. ^(;,,;)^ Pueden hacerlo a través de este Link > https://www.ivoox.com/support/11421 Escucha el episodio completo en la app de iVoox, o descubre todo el catálogo de iVoox Originals

What does the latest Fed rate move really mean for powersports and marine dealers? Northpoint Financial's Russell Baqir breaks down consumer confidence, aged inventory, F&I opportunities, and the moves dealers and OEMs should be making right now to protect cash flow and profitability.UPDATE 2027 is back.Join Garage Composites January 31–February 1 for one of the powersports and marine industry's premier training and networking events.Featuring industry training, 20 Clubs, and opportunities for dealers, manufacturers, vendors, owners, and managers to connect and grow.Bring your team and plan to join us for UPDATE 2027.

Last time we spoke about the battle of Hong Kong. On the night of December 18th, six Japanese battalions crossed Hong Kong harbour under cover of darkness and burning oil tanks. The Rajputs fought stubbornly but were overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Maltby fatally underestimated the assault, holding reserves against a frontal attack that never came. The breakthrough sparked a cascade of disasters. Elderly British businessmen and World War I veterans—the Hughsiliers—heroically held the North Point power station for 18 hours, delaying the entire Japanese advance. Private Geoghan, wounded but undeterred, charged a Japanese officer and killed him, incredibly surviving. The battle's focal point became Wongneichong Gap, where Brigadier Lawson died defending his headquarters. Desperate, piecemeal counter-attacks by Canadians and Scots failed amid chaos and poor coordination. Finally, a single Canadian company under Lieutenant Blackwood held the position for four days against overwhelming odds, killing over 200 enemy soldiers before surrendering. The Japanese suffered 800 casualties but seized the island's strategic heart.   #218 The Battle of Hong Kong Part 3: Black Christmas Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. By dawn on December 20, the Japanese Army had consolidated its position across Hong Kong Island. The 1/229th and 2/228th prepared to sweep southeastward from Taitam and Saiwan toward Stanley. The 2/229th and 3/229th, positioned near Stanley Gap, readied themselves to advance toward Repulse Bay. East of Wongneichong Gap, the 1/228th poised for the push toward Deep Water Bay, while the 3/228th, one of the original reserve battalions, had just arrived on the northern shore. On Jardine's Lookout, two fresh battalions—the 1/230th and 2/230th—prepared to advance westward across the gap. The West Brigade, meanwhile, held a fragile, ill-defined line: Z Company of the 1st Middlesex and Rajput survivors at Leighton Hill in the north, the 2 Royal Scots on the northern slopes of Mount Nicholson, and the Winnipeg Grenadiers, minus D Company, still clinging to pillboxes at Wongneichong Gap. The 228th Regiment moved first, tasked with clearing Postbridge House of its remaining defenders. Simultaneously, the 229th dispatched reconnaissance teams past Violet Hill toward the cliffs overlooking Repulse Bay Hotel—that opulent five-star resort now transformed into an impromptu fortress sheltering evacuees, soldiers, and sailors. What awaited was an epic three-day siege. Despite their gains, the Japanese later confessed that British resistance proved far stiffer than anticipated. They spent much of the 20th consolidating positions and bringing up supplies rather than pressing forward. Maltby, determined not to cede the initiative, dispatched a Royal Rifles company and two HKVDC platoons to the hotel with orders to attack the Gap from the south via Violet Hill. They recaptured the garages and outhouses but lacked the artillery support necessary to advance further. Growing anxious, Maltby sent a desperately weak platoon of the 2/14 Punjab—only 25 men—to reinforce them and push along the southern coast. Colonel Kidd, commanding the Punjab regiment, personally led an assault on Shouson Hill to link up with besieged sailors. He was killed in the attempt, and the mixed force of sailors and Punjabis fell back with severe losses. By the 22nd, after pressing forward from Shouson Hill, the Japanese seized Brick Hill and systematically beheaded all survivors. Yet the Japanese conquest contained stubborn pockets that refused to crumble. The HKSRA gunners held one end of Brick Hill. A ragtag force of HKVDC, naval personnel, Canadians, and Middlesex under Major Dewar maintained Little Hong Kong's ammunition store. HMS Cicala, providing artillery support from Deep Water Bay, was struck from the air and scuttled, eventually sinking in the Lamma Channel. Colonel H. B. Rose, the HKVDC commander, assumed control of the West Brigade following Brigadier Lawson's death. He spent much of the 20th preparing an ambitious counter-attack: the 2 Royal Scots and Winnipeg Grenadiers would drive toward the Gap from the west, supported by B Company of the Grenadiers, brought up from Pokfulam on the island's western coast. The operation commenced poorly. B Company arrived late to find that the Royal Scots had already departed Mount Nicholson's eastern slopes for reasons no one could later explain. The Grenadiers attacked alone through pitch darkness and torrential rain, splitting into two groups that circled Mount Nicholson from opposite directions, meeting above the Gap at dawn. Colonel Doi's tactical instinct struck again. Observing the undefended summit of Mount Nicholson—lost through British inattention—he seized the moment. That afternoon, under cover of heavy rain, he ordered the 1/228th in a three-company formation to take the position without opposition. When B Company blundered into the Japanese, a savage close-quarters battle erupted that cost the Grenadiers all their officers, seven NCOs, and 29 men. Overwhelmed, B Company retreated to Mount Nicholson's western slope as Doi prepared to exploit his success and assault Mount Cameron. At dawn on the 21st, Wallis proposed a new coordinated attack on the Gap. Major T. G. MacAuley of the Royal Rifles led a combined force of Canadian and HKVDC troops from Stanley Mount at 0915 hours. Accurate mortar fire from Red Hill met them immediately. Hand-to-hand combat erupted at Bridge Hill and Notting Hill before the force could push toward the Gap via Violet Hill. By 1700 hours, MacAuley and all HKVDC officers were wounded. Wallis ordered withdrawal. That same morning at 1030 hours, the Japanese launched a second amphibious assault, driving toward Victoria City itself and reaching the east side of what is now Victoria Park. The anti-aircraft gun at Watson's factory in Causeway Bay was silenced. The naval yard suffered devastating mortar bombardment; all its guns fell silent. Major C. R. Templer, assigned to command at Repulse Bay, had successfully repulsed numerous probing attacks. When ordered to assault the Gap with two platoons of Canadian infantry and two HKVDC machine-gun sections, he encountered such overwhelming Japanese force that he abandoned the operation and withdrew beyond Middle Ridge. By dawn on the 22nd, the Japanese finally established heavy artillery on Hong Kong Island. Two battalions of the 229th concentrated on Repulse Bay Hotel. The divisional reserves—1/229th and 1/230th—deployed against the East Brigade as it fell back to its last bastion: Stanley Peninsula. Stanley's defenses were organized in three concentric zones. The forward area, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Home, comprised elements of the 1st Middlesex, Royal Rifles companies, and HKVDC troops, supported by a single 2-pounder gun. Stanley village, under Lieutenant Colonel Wilcox, held the second line with artillery pieces and mixed infantry. A final reserve at Stanley Hill and Fort, under Lieutenant Colonel Shaw, contained the last of the artillery and the 1st and 2nd HKVDC batteries. To the west, British forces barely held their positions. The 2/14 Punjab, 1st Middlesex, 4/7 Rajputs, Royal Scots, and Winnipeg Grenadiers stretched along Mount Cameron and the northern heights—a thin, exhausted line facing Japanese battalions concentrated along a kilometer-long front. At noon on the 22nd, Japanese forces attacked Stanley Mound and Sugarloaf, held by B Company of the Royal Rifles augmented with platoons from HQ and D Companies. Despite multiple repulses, ammunition shortages forced the Canadians to retire to the southern slopes. The situation at Repulse Bay Hotel deteriorated daily, yet Major Templer continued to hold against repeated assaults. As Christmas Eve dawned, all defenders faced grim circumstances. The Royal Rifles of Canada, shattered from bearing the brunt of Japanese attacks, withdrew into Stanley Fort—but not before a heated confrontation between Lieutenant Colonel Home and Brigadier Wallis in which the Canadians bitterly accused their comrades of not "pulling their weight." In the evening of december 21st, Lt Colonel Home, now the senior surviving Canadian officer, spoke to Lt Colonel Sutcliffe, learning about the plight of the Winnipeg grenadiers trying to hold the crest of Mount Cameron. Sutcliffe reported that "his battalion was decimated and yet the high command was ordering his men to make counter attacks. So he asked Home if he could not do something to stop what he considered a useless waste of lives." Home took this to heart and began to inform Brigadier Wallis that he wanted to see the Governor. He said to Wallis "his battalion was exhausted; further resistance would only result in the waste of valuable Canadian lives; as senior Canadian officer he felt a grave responsibility" Wallis persuaded Home to wait until morning. Home the next morning was more than ever convinced of the futility of resistance. Its important to note the relationship between senior Canadians and British officers were all but poisoned in Hong Kong, let alone imagine how the Indian or Chinese volunteer forces felt. The Canadians distrusted the British commanders who for the most part got everything wrong in the whole damn operation. Home was threatening a separate Canadian surrender as they had lost confidence in Brigadier Wallis of the east brigade, Maltby and other British staff officers. It seemed to the Canadians they were being sacrificed to ensure the honor of the garrison. As Royal Rifles Major John H price put it  " There were plenty of Canadian officers who had battle experience in the first war who were competent to judge as to the possibility of a successful outcome of the defence of the island. Consider the facts - The Island had been split in two by vastly superior Japanese forces. On the eastern brigade front, which included the Stanley Peninsula, the Royal Rifles and one company of the Hong Kong Volunteer Defence Force were the only troops who had fought continuously day and night, without rest, since the landing on the 17th and were still carrying all the fighting. By the 21st they had been greatly reduced in fighting strength and by the 23rd to a strength of around 500 all ranks. (It might be interesting to note that when troops in this sector were marched out of Stanley fort as Prisoners of War, they numbered over 2000). It required no great military genius to predict the outcome of the battle once the Japanese had landed on the island with their control of sea and air and great superiority in weapons and men. He felt, I think rightly, that he would be derelict in his duty to his men and to the Canadian Government if he did not communicate his conclusions to the highest authority. Also neither Home nor his officers had any faith in Brig. Wallis' judgement or in his conduct of operations. And who had better right than he had? He and his men were bearing the brunt of the fighting and knew from first hand knowledge the strength and armament of the forces against them. The Higher Command had consistently shown an inability to grasp realities of the situation and to pursue tactics which might have prolonged the struggle but could not have altered the final result."  Stanley's defenses were reorganized into multiple lines. HKVDC companies held scattered positions at Chung Honkok, near the police station, and throughout the village. The 1st Middlesex manned pillboxes with medium machine guns. The second defensive line crossed Stanley Peninsula near St Stephen's College, defended by British, Chinese, and Indian policemen alongside HKVDC troops under Corporal E. C. Drown—all senior officers and NCOs having fallen. The final reserve stretched across St Stephen's Prep School north of the prison, held by Sergeant Murphy's HKVDC section and Captain F. G. Rees's 1st Battery HKVDC. By this stage, prison staff, wardens, and inmates had been pressed into the HKVDC. Among them was "Crumb" Chattey, a former captain of the 1st Middlesex serving a court-martial sentence for homosexual offences under the law of the time. Chattey assumed command of forty jailers and assorted men, including the colony executioner, who mounted a spirited defense. Japanese forces massed on Taitam Road with obvious intent to crush Stanley's remaining defense. Their first assault failed but destroyed two 18-pounders and two 2-pounder guns. Shortly before 2100 hours, a second attack commenced, this time supported by three tankettes. Two were destroyed by 2-pounders, yet No. 2 HKVDC Company was forced back to Stanley village with most of its men lost. Major H. R. Forsyth, the company commander, was recommended for a Victoria Cross for his stubborn defense against overwhelming odds. After midnight, a pillbox manned by C Company of the 1st Middlesex was overrun; Sergeant Sheehan and most of his crew were killed. The HKVDC line fractured. During all of this chaos, at midnight of the the Japanese made it to the field hospital at St Stephens College and this is where our story is going to take one of its darkest turns. In the early hours of Christmas day, the Japanese approached St Stephen's hospital which held approximately 96 wounded soldiers. Doctors and nurses stepped forward to surrender. Two doctors in charge, Lt Dr Colonel Black and his second in command Captain Dr Witney Barred the front door and Black called out 'You can't come in here' 'this is a hospital'. With deliberate aim, one of the Japanese soldiers raised his rifle and shot the doctor through the head.The Japanese mob then surged into the hospital ward, the body of Dr Black was repeatedly bayoneted as he lay at the door. The Japanese proceeded to enter the building and a massacre of unprecedented ferocity took place. The Japanese ripped the bandages off the wounded patients and plunged their bayonets into the amputated arms and legs before finishing them off with a bullet. In half an hour fifty-six wounded soldiers had been massacred while the nursing staff looked on helplessly.  They cut off ears, gouged out eyes, beat and raped the nurses. I want to read to you some testimony made by Sister Miss Amelia Fleming Gordon who witnessed what we now call the St Stephens College Massacre, something probably unknown to many outside Canada or Hong Kong. "Just before dawn there was a terrific howl and shortly afterwards Japanese arrived in large numbers at the front entrance. Captain Scotcher was pulled out and shortly afterwards he instructed me to come out and put my hands above my head. They took my steel helmet and cracked me over the head with it, searched my pockets, took off my red cross band and removed my watch that I had. They shouted for everyone to come out and everyone did except Sgt Parkin, who attempted to run past but was shot dead. We were marched single file into one of the adjacent classrooms, the patients also being brought in. Here we remained for about an hour or two, crowded and huddled together with no room to lie or sit down. Several of our patients between 50 to 60 I imagine were killed during the day. After 2 hours we were marched in single file upstairs and saw dead bodies and blood covering the stairs. We were then put into different classrooms, I went into a small room with four VADS (Mrs smith, Mrs Begg, Mrs Buxton and Mrs Simmons) where there were 5 chinese women. At 4:30m some Japanese soldiers came in and removed Mrs Smith, Begg and Buxton, I never saw them again. One of the Chinese girls told Mrs Simmons they had taken out the 3 women to kill them and would return for us. We were later ordered to bandage wounded Japanese soldiers. They took us to another room overlooking the tennis court, where there were five dead bodies of Red Cross personnel. We were made to sit on these dead bodies. I and Mrs Fideo were taken to other rooms. In my room there were two dead bodies, and I was made to take off all my clothes whilst they removed theirs. Before touching me they apparently became afraid someone was coming and made me put my clothes on again and I was returned to the room where Mrs Simmons and Mrs Andrews-Levinge still were. Mrs Fideo joined us almost immediately in a weeping state and told us she had been raped. We were left in peace for a short time only, 3 soldiers came in and took me in a small adjacent bathroom, knocked me down and all raped me one after the other, and then let me return. Mrs Fideo was then taken and underwent a similar experience. Both Mrs Fideo and I were then taken out a second time and raped as before Mrs Simmons and Mrs Andrews-levigne remained untouched. We were all now desperate and discovering there was a Yale lock on the door we pulled it locking ourselves in. They returned several times during the night but did not force an entrance."   Rifle man Sydney Skelton of "D" company of the Royal Rifles had this to say. ""The Japs stormed the hospital throwing grenades and bayoneting the wounded. I had rolled under a bed and lay as still as I could. A Jap turned me over, kicked me in the face, and tore off my bandages. I didn't move, or make a sound. The guy must have thought I was dead and took off. I heard screams coming from outside, terrible screams I can still hear in my head twenty years later. I saw a Jap coming into the hospital and take men outside at random. One of the wounded they dragged from his bed, cut off his ears, and ripped out his tongue. Then they took him outside and shot him. There was a lull in the din and he heard a British officer shout: "If you can walk or crawl to the door you may be allowed to live."  At this point Skelton tried to crawl to the door: "I was really confused from the anesthetic and I started to crawl, dragging my blanket, towards the door. A guy just ahead of me, a Hong Kong Volunteer, with a clasp knife in his belt, but his hands raised, was bayoneted as soon as he went out the door. The Padre grabbed me and slapped me to my senses. I'm alive today, thanks to him." A Japanese officer entered the hospital, saw Skelton with his wounds bleeding. He tore off Skelton's watch, hit him with the flat side of his sword and ordered him to go upstairs. Though badly wounded, Skelton crawled up the stairs and into a room that would be his prison for the next two days. Skelton spent nearly four years as a captive, first in Hong Kong and later in Japan where he worked as a slave labourer in a coal mine. Somehow, he made it home, where he lived in Scarsboro, Ontario. In a 1961 interview, he said: "Twenty years have passed, but I can never forget Christmas, 1941." On Christmas morning, Brigadier Wallis ordered C Company of the Royal Rifles of Canada to lead a counter-attack retaking the bungalows on Stanley village's ridge. Lieutenant Colonel Home refused. Wallis deployed D Company of the Winnipeg Grenadiers under Major Parker instead. At 1300 hours, the attack went in without artillery support. The 18th Platoon under Sergeant McDonnell penetrated to Stanley village, inflicting heavy casualties in savage hand-to-hand combat, but was eventually driven back to the fort. Of 148 men who attacked, only 44 answered roll call at day's end. Urban defense collapsed in stages. Using mines and a Bofors 40-millimeter gun in an anti-personnel role, the 230th Regiment pushed into Wanchai, held up briefly at the China Fleet Club. At Wanchai Market, an 18-pounder was destroyed. Japanese forces reached the Naval Dockyard's western boundary. The Rajputs fell back west of the racecourse. Mount Parish fell, opening the final approach to Victoria City. Back on December 21st, General Maltby sent a communique to the war office indicated that resistance was almost at an end. According to Sir John Kennedy, the director of Military operations in London "We had to decide whether to order the troops to fight it out or give the Governor permission to surrender as he wished to do... the psychological aspect was of overriding importance, particularly with an Oriental enemy. If we fought to the last round and the last man at Hong Kong, we should gain an indirect military advantage, in that the Japanese would judge our powers of resistance elsewhere by the same standard. Therefore my opinion was that, although it was an unpleasant decision, the garrison should be told to fight it out.". When Prime Minister Churchill was informed he sent a typical churchillian message "there must be no thought of surrender..the enemy must be compelled to expend the utmost life and equipment. There must be vigorous fighting in the inner defenses, and, if need be, from house to house. Every day that you are able to maintain your resistance will help the allied cause". Both the Governor and General had little choice but to agree, on Christmas the governors message was "fight on. Hold fast for king and empire".  By the afternoon it was clear further resistance was futile. At 1530 hours on December 25, Governor Young officially surrendered. A white flag rose over the colony. Young and Major General Maltby crossed Victoria Harbour from Queen's Pier to meet General Sakai at the Peninsula Hotel, renamed "Toa" by its new occupants. It was the first occasion on which a British Crown Colony had surrendered to an invading force. The garrison had held out for 17 days, the day is known in Hong Kong as "black christmas". Lieutenant Colonel R. G. Lamb and Lieutenant J. T. Prior descended from Fortress Headquarters to Stanley to order Brigadier Wallis to lay down arms. Wallis refused without written confirmation. When Major Harland arrived with official orders, Wallis finally capitulated. At 0230 hours on December 26, 1941, he and 2,000 men crossed the lines in surrender. Two days later, on the 28th, the Japanese staged a 2,000-man victory parade led by Lieutenant General Sano on a white horse. While the general paraded, his troops—officially granted three days of "rest and recreation"—embarked on systematic rape and pillage across the fallen colony. Rear-Admiral Chan Chak arrived in Hong Kong in 1938 as an unlikely businessman—General Manager of a stockbroker's firm—but his true role was far more consequential. The one-legged Chinese admiral commanded the Military Mission tasked with coordinating China's war effort with British operations. Working seamlessly with the police special branch and intelligence services, Chan orchestrated a shadow campaign against Japanese sympathizers and traitors, drawing on a network of Nationalist agents, many of whom carried Triad connections. His inner circle included Col. Yee Shiu Kee of Chinese intelligence (posing as an insurance salesman), Lt. Cdr. Henry Hsu as aide-de-camp, and Coxswain Yeung Chuen as bodyguard. As Governor Young prepared to sign the unconditional surrender on Christmas afternoon 1941, Chan received permission to lead an escape attempt. The 2nd MTB Flotilla—vessels MTBs 7, 9, 10, 11 and 27—waited in hiding near Aberdeen Island, but Chan's perilous journey through Victoria's ruins delayed his arrival. Finding the MTBs absent, he boarded HMS Cornflower II instead, only to come under withering machine-gun fire as the launch attempted to reach open water. Abandon ship was called. Chan removed his wooden leg and surrendered his lifebuoy to his non-swimming bodyguard, diving into the chaos with Lt. Cdr. Hsu. Almost immediately, a Japanese bullet tore through Chan's wrist—a crippling wound for a one-armed, one-legged swimmer fighting through hostile fire. The Japanese, sensing they had their quarry, ignited the hillside grass with tracer rounds to drive the men back into the sea. Col. Yee remained aboard the bullet-riddled vessel and was last seen attempting to hide; he would eventually make his way to unoccupied China after several harrowing days. The other escapees scattered across Aberdeen Island in desperation. Hearing the gunfire from their concealment on the far side of the island, the MTBs approached cautiously, rescuing survivors as they went. By 2130 hours on Christmas Day, sixty-eight survivors were racing toward Mirs Bay to rendezvous with Communist guerrillas. There the MTBs were scuttled after valuables were salvaged, and the escape party was welcomed as heroes and guided safely to Huizhou in unoccupied China. This dramatic flight marked the first of many escapes and signaled the beginning of Allied cooperation with the Chinese Communist forces. As British forces withdrew from Kowloon, a new force emerged from the shadows. The Guangdong People's Anti-Japanese Guerrillas East River Column (ERC)—a battle-hardened Communist organization founded in 1938—took up the struggle against the Japanese invaders. The ERC had consolidated various local anti-Japanese forces that sprang up after Guangzhou fell to Japan, anchoring itself on two formidable core units: Zeng Sheng's Baoan People's Anti-Japanese Guerrilla Main Force and Wang Zuorao's East Baoan regiment. By the eve of Hong Kong's invasion, the Third and Fifth Column fielded fifteen hundred fighters—seasoned veterans who had waged three years of resistance across Guangdong Province. Even as the British capitulated, Chinese Hongkongers—farmers and fishermen mostly—took up arms alongside their Communist allies. By year's end, over one hundred ERC members operated clandestinely in Hong Kong. In February 1942, to better organize this growing force, the HKKIB was formally established under Cai Guoliang's command, with Political Commissar Chen Daming answering to Zeng Sheng as overall commander of the ERC. The ERC's first mission was audacious in scope: rescue prominent Chinese and foreign VIPs trapped in Hong Kong. While China burned, the colony had remained a haven for industrialists, politicians, authors and dignitaries fleeing the war—now all vulnerable to Japanese occupation. Between December 1941 and June 1942, the ERC spirited over eight hundred key figures past Japanese lines to safety, while simultaneously escorting more than two thousand overseas Chinese volunteers eager to join the anti-Japanese war effort. The guerrillas also became architects of POW liberation. In March 1942, when British prisoners were forced to labor at Kai Tak Airport, the ERC deployed English-speaking operatives disguised as street vendors to infiltrate the airfield and extract Captain Thompson and four comrades through the rainwater culvert system. Among notable rescues were Lt. Col. Ride of the HKVDC (who would establish the British Army Aid Group), naval officers including Lt. J. W. Hurston of the Royal Navy, artillery officer Lt. G. D. Clagne, Indian soldiers such as Lashkar Singh and Mehnga Singh, and key civilians: the HSBC banker T. J. J. Fenwick, Police Superintendent W. P. Thompson, and foreign nationals—Russians, Danes, Norwegians—who found sanctuary in the unoccupied interior. Most were escorted to safety in China, but two Royal Scots soldiers—Joseph Gallaher and Daniel Hodges—remained with the ERC for six weeks, training guerrilla fighters in the use of British weapons and medium machine guns. These two Scottish soldiers became among the few Westerners to fight alongside Chinese Communist forces, a testament to the bonds forged in shared struggle against the Japanese occupier.   The casualty figures for Hong Kong remain contested. General Maltby's immediate post-war reports claimed 2,123 defenders dead or missing with 1,332 wounded, but these were later deemed inflated. The Chief Signal Officer, imprisoned after the surrender, compiled a more credible tally: 2,721 dead and missing. Modern estimates place military casualties around 1,600, including medical personnel from St John Ambulance. Civilian losses proved far grimmer—estimates suggest approximately 7,000 killed. Japanese records tell a different story. The Defence Agency historical section documented 1,720 Japanese deaths, while the Japanese occupation authority's own newspaper, Hong Kong News, reported 1,966 dead and 6,000 wounded on 29 December 1941. On 20 February 1942, Major-General Isogai Rensuke took office as Governor, commanding occupation forces under Brigadier Okada Umekichi. Three independent infantry regiments and supporting artillery maintained control of the colony. The occupiers' brutality would not escape Allied judgment. Major-General Ito, commander of the division's infantry, faced war crimes convictions. More prominently, Lieutenant-General Sakai, the 38th Army's commander and temporary governor, was tried, convicted, and executed by firing squad in 1946. Major-General Isogai received life imprisonment for war crimes but was released in 1967. Lieutenant-General Tanaka, final Japanese Governor and commander of the 23rd Army, was executed in 1947. Of the senior commanders, only Vice-Admiral Niimi survived the war, living to age 106.  General Maltby endured captivity throughout the East, moving from Hong Kong to Shanghai and Taiwan, finally reaching a camp near the Chinese-Mongolian border before repatriation from Shenyang (Mukden). His tenure received no official recognition despite the stubborn defense he had mounted. Lieutenant-Colonel White of the 2 Royal Scots survived internment but died shortly after returning to Britain, his health shattered by cancer. Governor Young resumed office in late 1946, attributing the colony's rapid loss to insufficient Chinese support for the British war effort. His attempts to introduce representative government alarmed London, which promptly replaced him with Sir Robert Black. Young retired in 1947. Maltby, too, retired from the Army soon afterward, also without honor. Not all were forgotten. Rear-Admiral Chan received an honorary KBE from British Ambassador Sir Horace Seymour. Colonel Yee was granted an honorary CBE, and Lieutenant-Commander Henry Hsu an honorary OBE. Hsu, a gifted athlete, became a member of the International Olympic Committee representing Chinese Taipei. Lieutenant-Colonel Stewart of 1 Middlesex died from illness in 1942. Three HKRNVR men—Petty Officer J. W. Fallace, W. C. Johnstone, and civilian Arthur Evans—escaped from the Lisbon Maru and reached Chongqing (Chunking). Of 1,834 POWs aboard that transport, only 716 returned home. Lieutenant Walda, responsible for brutal treatment of prisoners, died before sentencing; Captain Koyda, the Lisbon Maru's commander, received seven years' imprisonment. The British authorities formally acknowledged the East River Column's role—without its aid, no escapee would have survived the treacherous journey to freedom. When future Prime Minister James Callaghan raised questions in Parliament, the government responded with generous monetary awards, free medical care, and employment opportunities for survivors and their families. Many settled in the United Kingdom; others remained to serve in public and private sectors until Hong Kong's return to China in 1997, when the ERC liaison office became the local branch of the New China News Agency. Zeng Sheng, the ERC commander, rose to become Deputy Chief of Staff of the South China Military Region, then Deputy Provincial Governor and Mayor of Guangzhou. Purged during the Cultural Revolution, he was rehabilitated and became Minister of Communication in 1979. He died in Guangzhou in November 1995. One hundred twenty-eight HKVDC members, forty-nine soldiers of the British Army, and fifty personnel from transport and civil defense units escaped to Free China. The RAF transported them to Assam, then Calcutta, via the British Army Aid Group. The first groups joined the 9th Battalion of the Border Regiment at Fort William; the third and fourth joined the 1st Battalion of the Gloucestershire Regiment. Initially relegated to non-combatant roles, their fortunes changed when Brigadier Michael Calvert—who had served in pre-war Hong Kong commanding the Chinese Sappers—called for volunteers to fight the Japanese in Burma. All stepped forward. After months of intensive training, they were formally enrolled on 14 February 1943 as the Hong Kong Volunteer Company, integrated into Wingate's legendary Chindits, where they would see action deep behind Japanese lines in the jungles of Burma. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me.   During Hong Kong's 1941 Christmas invasion, Japanese forces committed atrocities against wounded soldiers and nurses. After seventeen days of brutal resistance, Governor Young surrendered on December 25th. Rear-Admiral Chan Chak escaped through machine-gun fire, while the East River Column guerrillas conducted daring rescues, extracting over 800 VIPs and 2,000 volunteers to safety in unoccupied China.          

Last time we spoke about the beginning of the Battle of Hong kong. Japan's rise as a threat to British interests accelerated through the 1920s and intensified after invading China. Britain's response remained contradictory—diplomatically conciliatory yet militarily apprehensive. While Singapore and Malaya received substantial reinforcements, Hong Kong was acknowledged indefensible, yet the 1936 Defence Scheme attempted to fortify it as an island fortress. Governor Northcote urgently advocated evacuation, recognizing the futility of defense. London rejected this, fearing it would demoralize China and forfeit sovereignty claims. Reinforcement requests from commanders like Grasett fell on deaf ears until Grasett independently lobbied Canadian leaders. This persistence finally convinced Churchill to dispatch two additional battalions. On December 8, 1941, Japanese forces attacked across three fronts with overwhelming force. Within hours, the RAF was destroyed on the ground, demolitions proved ineffective, and British units rapidly retreated toward the Gin Drinkers Line, facing an enemy that outnumbered and outmaneuvered them from the opening moments.   #217 The Battle of Hong Kong Part 2: the Island Aflame Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Around 1500 hours on 9 December, Colonel Doi of the 228th Regiment arrived at Needle Hill, just north of the Gin Drinkers Line, ahead of his main force. For two hours he studied the British defensive positions through binoculars, noting trenches and bunkers—and to his surprise, washing lines fluttering with white clothes. The sight spoke volumes about the 2 Royal Scots' lax discipline. Then fog descended, reducing visibility to barely twenty meters, and heavy rain obscured the landscape. Doi sensed a fleeting advantage but lost radio contact with his battalions. Worse still, the Shing Mun Redoubt lay outside his regimental boundary, making an unauthorized attack a serious breach of protocol. When his units finally arrived, supporting artillery remained unavailable, held up by demolished roads. Doi chose to attack anyway. Doi ordered the 2nd Battalion to scout the eastern approach while the 3rd Battalion spearheaded the main assault. Major Nishiyana commanded the 3rd, sending Lieutenant Wakabayashi and Kasugai with 150 volunteers to lead. The Shing Mun Redoubt itself comprised five concrete pillboxes and an artillery observation post, connected by underground tunnels named after London landmarks—Piccadilly, Haymarket, and others. The whole complex sat on small rises above Jubilee Dam, then the British Empire's tallest. Defending the redoubt was A Company, 2 Royal Scots, under Captain Jones—just three officers and 39 men. One platoon of 25 soldiers under 2nd Lieutenant Thompson held the forward positions. Against this stood 150 Japanese attackers, with another 1,500 troops in reserve. Battalion orders forbade using the concrete works as fighting positions; they were meant for the Vickers machine-gun team and artillery protection. No mines could spare the redoubt's perimeter. On the night of the 9th, roughly half the defenders sheltered in the observation post while the remainder manned pillboxes 401b and 402. At 2000 hours, Thompson led a nine-man patrol northward to check Needle Hill and Shing Mun Valley. Despite two and a half hours in the field, the patrol returned at 2220 hours without detecting the Japanese force massing just 500 meters away. By that time, Lieutenant Kasugai's assault group had crossed Jubilee Dam undetected, bypassed unmanned Post X, and assembled below Pillbox 401b. At 2200 hours, Japanese sappers cut through two lines of wire. At 2300—H-Hour—Lance Corporal Laird heard movement in the bushes and opened fire. The Japanese answered with grenades and rushed the pillbox lines. One team entered the tunnel system; another hurled grenades through the air vents. Corporal Campbell swung his Vickers toward Pillbox 401, catching Japanese headquarters personnel in the open. Sergeant Robb mustered a counter-attack force of thirteen men. Five fell as casualties—Laird, Basnett, Coyle, Casey, and Jardine. Casey was killed; only Jardine escaped. The alert triggered gunfire from the observation post's defenders, and Forward Observer Wilcox called down 4.5-inch and 6-inch artillery fire. Without strong reinforcement and leadership, four Royal Scots and an Indian sentry abandoned the northern positions and withdrew to the observation post. Captain Jones received orders from Brigade to counter-attack, but delegated the task to Thompson. As Thompson attempted to leave the observation post, he found the gate locked from outside. This calamity had a backstory: just before the attack, Thompson had admitted a civilian at the request of Force 163 (SOE's sabotage unit in Singapore). Private Wylie had taken the observation post key from Lance Naik Kishan Singh and, upon exit, locked the gate behind him. The three officers were now literally locked out of the battle. Second Lieutenant Mochizuki and his platoon infiltrated through open trenches and began attacking the observation post from above, attempting to breach the hatches. The defenders held for three hours before Japanese sappers forced explosives down the air vents. At 0230 hours, the blast killed two Indian signallers inside. Thompson sustained a severe eye wound from grenade shrapnel; Jones and Warrant Officer Mead were both wounded. The remaining fifteen defenders surrendered; eleven became casualties. Meanwhile, a Rajput patrol engaging Japanese forces in the river valley managed to drive them back toward the redoubt. One final pillbox endured for another eleven hours before suffering the same sapper treatment. By 0400 hours on 10 December, the entire redoubt was lost. For just two killed, the Japanese had achieved a decisive victory—the breakthrough that would shift the entire campaign's trajectory. By dawn, a Japanese flag flew triumphantly from Point 255.   Major-General Maltby's assessment was stark: "This was calamitous, for Shing Mun was the key to the whole of the left position." Yet the Japanese perspective differed sharply. Having achieved a breakthrough, Colonel Doi received astonishing orders to withdraw—his success had transgressed into the 230th Regiment's sector and violated the meticulously prepared war plan. Doi refused. After heated confrontation with Major-General Ito and Lieutenant-General Sakai, his insubordination was later censured, though a divisional staff officer, Oyadomani, bore the scapegoat's burden of rebuke for failing to restrain Doi's initiative. With Shing Mun secured, Doi methodically fed reinforcements into the position. Throughout December 10th, the Japanese remained uncertain of their advantage and adopted a cautious strategy, probing British lines to exploit the evident disorder. Brigadier Wallis ordered the Royal Scots to mount an immediate dawn counterattack supported by the Rajputs and artillery. Lieutenant-Colonel White demurred; his battalion lacked any reasonable prospect of success. The resulting counterattack proved half-hearted at best. At first light on December 11th, the Japanese pressed Golden Hill forcefully, only to be repulsed by Captain Newton's Rajputs and gunfire from HMS Cicala. White positioned D Company in shallow shell scrapes and rusted wire—inadequate defenses against Japanese assault. Captain Pinkerton led a desperate bayonet charge that morning, temporarily clearing the Japanese and enabling the evacuation of wounded. Yet B, C, and D Companies absorbed devastating losses; Captains Rose and Richardson fell commanding their positions. With the Royal Scots collapsing, X Company of the Winnipeg Grenadiers and armored support rushed westward to seal the widening gap along Castle Peak Road. Meanwhile, Maltby grappled with alarming reports: Japanese landings on Lantau Island southwest of Hong Kong. Heavy artillery drove them back. A second probe at Aberdeen, where Special Naval Landing Forces approached within 300 yards of the naval base, was repelled by Canadian machine-gun fire. In hindsight, these were mere feints—never intended as the primary thrust. The stratagem succeeded. Maltby retained his island reserves—the Middlesex and two Canadian battalions—precisely where they would be needed. Had Wallis executed a forceful counterattack on December 10th with the Royal Scots and brigade reserves, the Rajputs might have retaken Shing Mun while the Japanese remained disorganized. Instead, Colonel Doi faced a furious Sakai, who had flown down from 38th Division headquarters at Taipo for what amounted to a pre-court-martial examination. The moment passed. After only 48 hours of combat, Maltby concluded the mainland was indefensible. The three battalions would withdraw intact to Hong Kong Island to assume their fortress defense roles. The naval commodore objected—demolitions, supply transfers, and troop ferrying required more time. The evacuation order was deferred 24 hours until noon on December 11th. At that hour, the decision was finalized: the mainland would be abandoned under cover of darkness. Further demolitions followed—the China Light and Power Station, the cement works on Tsing Yi Island, the docks. Yet Brigadier Wallis believed this merely a precautionary measure; he anticipated holding the mainland for at least another week. The withdrawal avoided Kowloon's congested streets, where street fighting and fifth columnists might have entrapped the British—a calculation that proved prescient, as an IJA advance column of 350 men from the 3/230th infiltrated Kowloon on the morning of December 12th to cut off the retreating garrison. The Royal Scots and Canadians retired south to Shamshuipo Barracks and Jordan Road Pier in western Kowloon; the Rajputs and supporting gunners withdrew eastward to Ma Lau Tong, which anchored the fortified Devil's Peak Peninsula. Maltby intended to hold this commanding position permanently—it was easily supplied across the narrow Lyemun Strait. The evacuation proceeded largely as planned. The Canadians and Royal Scots embarked on the afternoon and evening of December 11th under Punjabi covering fire. The Punjabis faced a harder journey—a moonlit scramble along steep Kowloon hills laden with supplies but critically short of mules. One group lost its way at a crucial junction, splitting into two columns. One proceeded toward Devil's Peak as planned; Battalion Headquarters descended into Kai Tak Airport, threaded through Kowloon City, and was evacuated by Star Ferry at Tsim Sha Tsui, fighting until the final moment as the last man boarded. The Rajputs' commander, unable to reach his Punjabi counterpart, abandoned Ma Lau Tong for the closer Hai Wan line near Devil's Peak. By 0400 hours on December 12th, the Punjabis and one Rajput company, accompanied by the gunners of the 25th Medium Battery, crossed Lyemun Strait to Hong Kong Island. Morning evacuations continued with minimal Japanese interference—a surprising restraint. Naval support proved crucial. The withdrawal completed by the morning of December 13th, though 170 mules were lost to the desertion of Chinese laborers—a deprivation that would haunt the subsequent campaign. During this passage, the IJN attempted shore bombardment. The Japanese cruiser and supporting vessels found themselves outranged by the defenders' 9.2-inch guns. The damage inflicted proved sufficient to discourage future naval adventures; for the remainder of the battle, the IJN maintained a cautious distance and played only a peripheral role. The speed and execution of the withdrawal apparently caught the Japanese unprepared. Their most probable expectation had been a full-scale assault on Devil's Peak accompanied by heavy bombardment—a day earlier, an assault without artillery preparation had been driven back with severe losses. The British appeared stronger than anticipated. The defense of the mainland had lasted only five days. With the mainland secured, the Japanese pivoted toward Hong Kong Island. The first move was diplomatic rather than military. At 0900 hours on December 13th, a small boat bearing a white flag crossed the harbor. It carried Colonel Toda, Lieutenant Mizuno, Mr. Othsu Dak, and two European women—the prominent and heavily pregnant Mrs. Macdonald and Mrs. C. R. Lee, wife of the Governor's secretary, accompanied by her two dachshunds. The surrender terms were flatly rejected. Major Boxer delivered the written refusal personally. Mrs. Macdonald remained in Hong Kong to give birth; Mrs. Lee and her dogs returned to Kowloon. The Japanese commenced systematic shelling of selected targets. On December 13th, a 9.2-inch gun on Mt. Davis was silenced; Belcher's Fort sustained damage. The following day, a 3-inch mount on Mt. Davis was hit, killing Chinese gunners and triggering morale collapse; some deserted. On December 15th, the barrage shifted to the northern shoreline, deliberately targeting pillboxes. At 2100 hours that night, approximately three Japanese companies attempted crossing the harbor in rubber rafts toward Pakshawan but were driven off by machine-gun fire. Fifth columnists intensified their operations—signaling with mirrors, sniping from concealed positions, spreading propaganda to encourage Chinese desertion. Their impact might have been catastrophic had not Rear-Admiral Chan and Colonel Yee, armed with tommy guns and grenades, systematically eliminated many of these saboteurs. By December 16th, half the pillboxes between the racecourse and Lyemun Strait lay destroyed. The intended crossing site was unmistakable. On December 17th, the Japanese dispatched a second peace mission—Colonel Toda's team now accompanied by Mrs. Lee with her dachshunds and a pregnant Russian woman. Again, the overtures were rebuffed. On December 18th, the bombardment reached new intensity. Oil storage tanks ignited, sending dense black smoke cascading across the northeast corner of the island—perfect concealment for what was to come. All signs pointed to imminent assault.  I want to note something here, you sometimes hear about how race played a role in the Pacific War and indeed it did. Racist attitudes were found on both the western and Japanese side of the war. There is a fantastic book dedicated to this by the way called, War without Mercy by John Dower, highly recommend it. What is interesting is how these racial attitudes actually affected decision making during the war. Take General Sakai's night amphibious assault for example. Western soldiers such as the Canadians in Hong Kong reported they were told by their commanders that quote "Don't worry about the Japanese, they can't see at night, they all wear glasses" another Canadian soldier wrote in a diary "They don't see well, especially at night we knew this as a matter of fact." Indeed the week before the outbreak of the battle of Hong Kong, Canadian officers attending a briefing by a British officer were informed that "Japan's aircraft were mostly obsolete, its air force had little practice in night flying, and its pilots were myopic and thus unable to carry out dive-bombing attacks". You might be asking yourself, why did they think the Japanese were myopic? The scientific explanation of the day was this "That the Japanese suffered widespread inner-ear damage. What caused this? Japanese motherhood, the practice of strapping babies to their mothers backs, it was explained caused their heads to bounce about, like when they harvested rice and permanently impaired their sense of balance". I particularly love this quote, one of my professors dedicated an entire class to the bizarre racial attitudes before and after the pacific war. There was a belief the Japanese could not see well at night, many western air force commanders actually believed there were times of day like at dawn or dusk where Japanese pilots would not operate because of this hindrance. American military commentator Fletcher Pratt in 1939 analyzed Japan's military strengths and explained it had four major weaknesses. The first was scarcity of resources such as iron, and steel. The second was that the Japanese "can neither make good airplanes nor fly them well" as a result of " the Japanese as a race have defects of the tubes of the inner ear, just as they are generally myopic. This gives them a defective sense of balance, the one physical sense in which an aviator is not permitted to be deficient.". The third was that the Japanese were short-tempered and were inclined to waste men unnecessarily when operations did not go well. The fourth was that the Japanese would simply never date to provoke a war with the US. Again Mr Pratt was an American military commentator whose information came from multiple accounts given by high ranking military officials! The British military maintained that the Japanese avoided night operations on land because they were simply incapable of caring them out well, while they avoided nighttime aerial attacks, as well as dive-bombing for the same reasons Pratt said quote "their pilots were poor and their aircraft inferior.". So take this all to mind when I talk about how certain ranking officers go about making their decisions. By the evening of 14 December, evacuated mainland units had regrouped on Hong Kong Island. The defensive structure was restructured into two brigades: Brigadier Wallis commanded the East Brigade from Taitam Gap, while Brigadier Lawson headed the West Brigade from Wongneichong Gap. This reorganization placed the 5/7 Rajputs across the north-east perimeter, defending over 3,500 metres of coastline with B Company positioned on the hills behind Taikoo Docks. The Royal Rifles of Canada held the north-east corner from Stanley to points south, with reserve positions at Lyemun. Two HKVDC companies supported from Taitam Valley and Pottinger Gap, while the veteran Hughsiliers manned the North Point power station. British and Canadian artillery provided fire support across the northern approaches. The West Brigade held the north-western and south-western shores. The 2/14 Punjab stretched from Causeway Bay to Belcher's Point, protecting Government House and General Maltby's headquarters, with battalion headquarters at Mid-Level. The Winnipeg Grenadiers covered the south-west from Wanchai Gap, with one company detached to the brigade headquarters at Wongneichong Gap. The 2 Royal Scots, severely mauled at Shing Mun, were held in reserve with fresh replacements from the HKVDC. The Middlesex Regiment's companies were dispersed along 72 pillboxes encircling the entire shoreline, while an improvised Z Company of clerks, musicians and cooks defended battalion headquarters at Leighton Hill. Supporting artillery included 9.2-inch and 6-inch guns on Mt Davis and 4.7-inch guns at Belcher's Point. As darkness fell on 17 December, Japanese reconnaissance swimmers reached Taikoo, confirming the crossing site despite detection. Reinforcements arrived: 18 additional heavy bombers from Guangzhou and 26 fighters from Taiwan joined the aerial assault. The crescendo of artillery fire on the 18th, combined with masses of small craft gathering across the harbour, signalled the imminent invasion. Japanese divisional headquarters shifted to Ma Tau Wei near Kai Tak Airport; the 23rd Army moved to Taipo. The invasion force disposed itself with the right flank embarking from east and west of Kai Tak, the left from Devil's Hill area. At 1800 hours, the invasion order was issued; by 1930 hours Sakai himself arrived in Kowloon to oversee the crossing. At precisely 2000 hours, the 2/228th Regiment silently paddled their collapsible craft toward Taikoo Docks and the nearby sugar factory as artillery support commenced. Colonel Doi embarked with 80 headquarters personnel aboard a large barge, leading the second wave. The conditions favoured the invaders—a moonless night, sporadic showers, and thick black smoke from burning oil tanks obscured their movement. They reached the midpoint undetected before searchlights and machine-gun fire scattered the small boats, separating commanders from their units. Despite this chaos, the assault pressed forward. At 2140 hours the artillery shifted to deeper targets; at 2145 hours the first wave of 3/230th landed at North Point, followed minutes later by 2/228th and then 2/229th. Three red flares signalled a successful landing. All six Japanese battalions were ashore by midnight, though wire fencing delayed their advance and Bren carriers added to the confusion on the beach. General Sano arrived at Taikoo one hour later. The 5/7 Rajputs bore the initial brunt of the assault. Despite days of preliminary shelling, the Rajputs mounted a stubborn defence; Japanese casualties mounted rapidly. The anti-tank company suffered so grievously that only a single gun remained operational. The Japanese plan was tactical rather than frontal—bypass isolated positions for later elimination and push rapidly toward high ground. Overwhelmed by numerical superiority and losing most of their officers, Rajput resistance gradually crumbled. Contradicting all evidence, Maltby remained convinced the main Japanese assault would strike directly at Victoria from Kowloon. He therefore withheld the counter-attack, instead dispatching a platoon of Middlesex troops, Royal Marines, naval personnel, and the Rajputs' reserve company—supported by artillery—to establish a defensive line blocking the Japanese advance toward Central District. Three HKVDC armoured cars were sent to protect East Brigade headquarters; two more reinforced the Middlesex battalion headquarters. It was manifestly inadequate against six Japanese battalions. In post-war dispatches, Maltby conceded his grave miscalculation: he believed he faced at most two battalions, not a full division. As the 3/230th broke through D Company of the 5/7 Rajputs, the 2/230th came ashore nearby and wheeled westward toward Victoria. Their advance halted abruptly at the North Point power station, held by an extraordinary force: four officers and 36 men of the HKVDC Hughsiliers Platoon—alongside 39 civilian volunteers from China Light & Power and Hong Kong Electric, including the station manager Vincent Sorby—plus eight Free French soldiers commanded by Captain Jacques Egal, a Shanghai businessman turned soldier. Without exception, these men were World War I veterans, many aged 55 or older. Some had fought in the Boer War. Major J. J. Patterson, the Hughsiliers' commander, had served with Allenby's Camel Corps and been mentioned in dispatches six times; he was chairman of Jardine Matheson and a legislative councillor. Private Sir Edward Des Voeux, 8th Baronet, a millionaire bullion trader and secretary of the Hong Kong Club, had enlisted as a private when deemed too old for mobilization. Private T. A. Pearce, 67 years old, was chairman of J. D. Hutchison & Company and secretary of the Hong Kong Jockey Club. Captain Bruch, the second-in-command, aged 60, chaired a major trading house. The list extended through Hong Kong's business elite, each choosing to fight rather than flee. These old men held an entire regiment at bay. When Patterson called for aid, Maltby dispatched an HKVDC armoured car with a platoon from Z Company, 1 Middlesex, but the reinforcement was ambushed before reaching the station; only nine soldiers, including 2nd Lieutenant Caruthers, broke through. Unable to dislodge the defenders by assault, the Japanese resorted to bombardment. By 0145 hours on 19 December, surrounded and ammunition exhausted, the defenders withdrew to King's Road behind a disabled bus. The Japanese deployed three machine guns, killing or mortally wounding all but Private Geoghan. A Japanese officer, believing all dead, cautiously approached—only to have Geoghan, despite his wounds, surge from cover and charge. He killed the officer and four soldiers before collapsing from wounds. Somehow Geoghan survived. Those old men—civilians and reservists, businessmen and veterans—held the entire western Japanese advance for 18 hours, buying Maltby precious time to withdraw forces and establish a new defensive line. Their stand at North Point became one of the campaign's most improbable acts of defiance. As the 2/229th Regiment advanced southward toward Mt Parker, the 3/229th landed at Aldrich Bay and turned eastward toward Lyemun, where they seized an HKVDC 6-inch gun. Major Bishop of the Royal Rifles of Canada, unaware of the landings, dispatched 15 Platoon under Lieutenant Scott to check on A Company of the Rajputs. Unexpectedly, they encountered armed men in civilian clothes at Lyemun's gate—the first indication of the Japanese presence on the island. Yet senior officers dismissed initial reports of landings and lost positions as exaggerated, a critical miscalculation that proved catastrophic. At Lyemun Fort, the 5th Anti-aircraft Battery of the HKVDC was caught completely unaware and surrendered after minimal resistance. The Japanese then committed one of many atrocities that would characterize the battle, bayoneting 29 survivors. Alerted by 15 Platoon's report, Bishop attempted a counter-attack with two platoons to retake the fort, but the defenders could not scale the six-meter wall and withdrew with nine men killed. As the 2/229th pressed southward toward Mt Parker, they overran the Salesian Mission, which had been converted into an Advance Dressing Station. No. 8 Company of the 2/229th systematized a massacre of medical personnel and the wounded—an atrocity that would later become pivotal evidence at Colonel Tanaka's war crimes trial. Yet amid the chaos, several medical staff and wounded survived to testify: Gunners Y. K. Chan and Martin H. C. Tso of the 5th Battery, Captain Osler Thomas of the HKVDC, Captain Martin Banfill of the Royal Canadian Medical Corps, and Corporal Norman Leath of the Royal Army Medical Corps. C Company of the Royal Rifles, reinforced with captured Japanese machine guns abandoned by fleeing Rajputs, inflicted heavy casualties on the attackers, with one Japanese company suffering over 65 percent losses. Yet overwhelmed by superior numbers and suffering nearly two platoons worth of casualties themselves, the Canadians were forced to withdraw, leaving only a reinforcement platoon under Lieutenant Blaver on Mt Parker. When Captain Clerke arrived at dawn with 16 Platoon to reinforce the position, he found over 100 Japanese already entrenched. With no artillery support and only two platoons available, Clerke had no choice but to withdraw, abandoning Mt Parker to the enemy. By dawn on the 19th, the East Brigade faced catastrophe. Infantry strength had been halved, and losses of artillery were equally devastating. A series of misunderstandings and misinterpreted orders led coastal gun crews at Capes D'Aguilar and Collinson to destroy their own guns in confusion or lose them to the advancing Japanese. Of the entire artillery complement, only one 18-pounder and two 3.7-inch field guns remained operational. Wongneichong—literally "yellow muddy creek" in Chinese—occupies the center of Hong Kong Island, a valley separating the eastern hills (Mt Parker, Mt Butler, Jardine's Lookout) from the western massif (Mt Nicholson, Mt Cameron, Victoria Peak). This narrow gap formed the critical artery linking northern and southern Hong Kong, making Brigadier Lawson's decision to place West Brigade Headquarters there strategically sound yet tactically vulnerable. Recognizing the exposed position after the landings, Major Lyndon had located an alternative site south of Mt Nicholson, scheduled to open the following day. In response to the Japanese landings, Lawson dispatched three platoons of Winnipeg Grenadiers to block the advance. Lieutenant C. D. French took 18 Platoon to Mt Butler, Lieutenant G. A. Birkett's 17 Platoon moved to Jardine's Lookout, and Lieutenant L. B. Corrigan's platoon took the north-west approach to the Gap. As on Mt Parker, both French and Birkett were killed almost immediately, their small forces overwhelmed by battalion-strength enemy forces with artillery support. By morning on the 19th, two battalions each of the 230th and 228th Regiments were pushing for the high ground. The 2/230th rapidly occupied Jardine's Lookout while the 3/230th moved to Mt Nicholson and the 2/228th advanced toward the Gap itself. No. 3 Company of the HKVDC under Major E. Stewart held pillboxes around Jardine's Lookout, while No. 1 Company under Captain Penn defended Taitam Valley with forward positions at Quarry Gap. The pillboxes, despite heavy bombardment, held longer than anticipated—some for as long as 24 hours. Stewart maintained his company headquarters until the 22nd, four days of continuous fighting without adequate ammunition, food, or water. No. 3 Company suffered 80 percent casualties and ceased to exist as a cohesive unit. Realizing that the enemy had penetrated to Mt Butler, Brigadier Lawson decided counter-attack was essential. Major A. B. Gresham of A Company, Winnipeg Grenadiers, was ordered to retake Mt Butler and clear Jardine's Lookout. The Canadians initially succeeded, with Warrant Officer 2 J. R. Osborne leading a bayonet charge, but a strong counter-attack by three Japanese companies drove them back by 2200 hours. The Canadians held firm until 1500 hours, when Gresham attempted surrender despite waving a white flag—the Japanese shot him regardless. In the chaos that followed, a Canadian killed a Japanese officer in response, triggering a grenade barrage. Warrant Officer Osborne caught the grenades and hurled them back as fast as they came, but one landed in an impossible position. Without hesitation, Osborne threw himself on the grenade to save his comrades. This act of supreme self-sacrifice earned him a Victoria Cross—the first Canadian VC of World War II. At dawn on the 19th, Maltby dispatched A Company of the 2 Royal Scots under Captain K. J. Campbell to reinforce the Gap, but they lost all their officers with only 15 men reaching Lawson's headquarters. A group of sailors under Commander A. L. Pears came from the south, but were ambushed en route; only a few reached the Postbridge—a house just south of the Gap—which became an isolated strongpoint. The 3/230th captured the police station perched on a mound at the southern point of the Gap, then swept eastward to seize the anti-aircraft guns of 7th Battery (barely 250 meters from brigade headquarters) and continued uphill toward Taitam Hill to capture additional 6-inch and 3.7-inch guns. Maltby's response was to call down final protective fire from the HKSRA in Happy Valley, inflicting massive casualties on the 3/230th. At 1000 hours on the 19th, Lawson reported that his headquarters was surrounded and he was about to "go outside and shoot it out." Captain H. A. Bush provided covering fire as Lawson and his entire staff, including Middlesex signallers, were cut down by machine-gun fire across the Gap. Lawson's body was discovered two days later halfway up the hill behind his headquarters, dead from a gunshot wound to the thigh. Lieutenant Kerfoot of the 2/14 Punjab with his three Bren carriers arrived minutes too late to save him. IJA who saw the fight made a note stating "he died heroically". At 1330 hours on the 19th, Maltby issued "Operation Order No. 6" calling for a massive counter-attack to commence 90 minutes later. The plan was ambitious: A and D Companies of the 2/14 Punjab were to attack east from Victoria to North Point to relieve the Hughsiliers, while HQ Company of the Winnipeg Grenadiers and the 2 Royal Scots were to attack the Gap and Jardine's Lookout. Eight field guns were promised but never materialized. There was no reconnaissance, no proper orders, and minimal coordination. The Canadians were to rendezvous with the 2 Royal Scots at Middle Gap at 1530 hours, but the Scots were late; the Canadians advanced without them. Captain Pinkerton of D Company, 2 Royal Scots, was ordered at the last minute to attack up Wongneichong Gap Road—the same route A Company had taken only seven hours earlier and been decimated—because it was reported as "lightly held." Captain A. M. S. Slater-Brown led the advance with three Bren carriers and attached engineers, followed by D Company of the Winnipeg Grenadiers. Just as the carriers reached the burnt-out trucks of A Company, they too were ambushed. Mortars and machine-gun fire rained down from Jardine's Lookout, where the Japanese occupied captured HKVDC pillboxes. Slater-Brown and 2nd Lieutenant Bell, the battalion intelligence officer, were killed instantly. The Royal Scots waited in the roadside ditches until 0200 hours before launching an attack on the police station, reaching the steps before Pinkerton was severely wounded. Captain Ford's composite company attack at 0300 hours also failed. Simultaneously, C Company under Lieutenant F. L. Stanier attacked Jardine's Lookout—also unsuccessfully. This series of piecemeal assaults cost the Royal Scots eight officers and 68 soldiers. Growing increasingly desperate, Maltby ordered Major Hodkinson, Officer Commanding HQ Company of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, to attack the Gap and proceed to Mt Parker. Requesting reinforcements from A Company and the Royal Scots, Hodkinson launched his assault with covering fire from Lieutenant Corrigan on Mt Nicholson. The Grenadiers managed to reach Mt Nicholson with only five unwounded men, though Corrigan's group advanced to within 300 meters of the Gap road. Then came an unexpected stroke of fortune: while skirting Mt Nicholson, Hodkinson's group stumbled upon approximately 500 Japanese—probably from the 3/230th—eating lunch without posting sentries. The Winnipeg Grenadiers unleashed devastating fire, inflicting heavy casualties. By 1745 hours, Hodkinson's force was only 100 meters from Repulse Bay Road. With four men and a 2-inch mortar, Hodkinson worked his way to the abandoned brigade headquarters, bringing 20 walking wounded with him. He established a foothold at the Gap, receiving orders to attack the police station at 2200 hours. Two HKVDC armoured cars with Vickers machine guns came in support, but accurate enemy fire disabled both. Like Pinkerton before him, Hodkinson reached near his objective before being severely wounded. For this action of determination and courage, Hodkinson was awarded the Distinguished Service Order. By the morning of the 20th, the Japanese had consolidated control of the Gap, but elements of D Company, Winnipeg Grenadiers, still held various pillboxes north of the position. Initially, 17 and 18 Platoons occupied forward positions with Company Headquarters and 16 Platoon in reserve, positioned across Wongneichong Road almost directly opposite brigade headquarters. Forward positions were rapidly overrun and cut off from the company. They fought without officers until withdrawal to battalion headquarters became necessary. With Captain A. S. Bowman killed and Captain R. W. Philips wounded, command fell to Lieutenant T. A. Blackwood. An attempt by B Company to relieve D Company on the evening of the 20th failed catastrophically, killing all officers and 29 men. With fewer than 50 men remaining—all wounded—Lieutenant Blackwood continued inflicting heavy casualties on the Japanese until 22 December, when exhaustion and the complete absence of ammunition, food, and water forced surrender. D Company killed over 200 Japanese soldiers. Post-war Japanese reports refused to believe that a single company had held the Gap for so long. For their stubborn defense, Philips and Blackwood were awarded the Military Cross, and three enlisted men received the Military Medal. The battle of Wongneichong Gap was characterized by fragmented planning and poor coordination. On the night of the 19th-20th, no fewer than three separate companies attacked the police station, with another company assaulting Jardine's Lookout—all within five hours, all independently organized by local commanders. Had these disparate actions been coordinated into a single simultaneous assault, fortress headquarters' objectives might well have been achieved. By the end of the 20th, the British had lost the vital ground of Wongneichong, though Postbridge House remained as an isolated holdout. For the Japanese, Wongneichong became the single costliest engagement since the invasion began, with over 800 casualties and the regimental commander of the 3/230th seriously wounded. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me.   Japanese landings on 18-19 December overwhelmed the East Brigade. Brigadier Lawson died defending the vital Gap. Desperate, uncoordinated counter-attacks by British and Canadian troops failed to dislodge the enemy. D Company Winnipeg Grenadiers held the position for four days against overwhelming odds before surrendering. The Japanese suffered 800 casualties but secured this critical strategic ground.

MUS 41 Northpoint 6 - MUS Football Game #2 of the 2026 season with Jeffrey Wright on the call 8/28/26

In this episode, Andrew is joined by Northpoint CEO Daniel French for a live recording at IMN SFR Operations in Austin, TX. The pair discuss his journey into and through real estate, what led him to Northpoint, and why he thinks that investing in talent is the future of the property management industry.

In this episode, Andrew is joined by Northpoint CEO Daniel French for a live recording at IMN SFR Operations in Austin, TX. The pair discuss his journey into and through real estate, what led him to Northpoint, and why he thinks that investing in talent is the future of the property management industry.

The Night Northpoint Ordered Its Own ErasureBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dark-mysteries-unsolved-mysteries-forgotten-secrets-unanswered-questions--5684156/support.Darkest Mysteries OnlineThis episode includes AI-generated content.

Subscribe for free weekly Property Management News & updates: https://peter.beehiiv.com/KKR just made a major change to how it manages its single-family rental portfolio. Here's what happened:KKR is ending its asset management relationship with Avenue One and bringing oversight in-house through its subsidiary, My Community Homes (MCH)~10,000 SFR doors are affected across four property managers: Mynd (4,000), Evernest (3,500), North Point (1,500), and Pure Home River (1,000)MCH is keeping Mynd on, but cutting Evernest, North Point, and Pure Home River loose — most of the work is shifting to Darwin Homes insteadThe move follows new legislation restricting large investors from buying SFRs, plus a broader trend of institutional owners pulling property management in-house (Blackstone did the same earlier this year)North Point expects to lose ~30% of its door count; Evernest and Pure Home River are looking at roughly 15% and 3% hits, respectivelyLesson: don't tether too much of your business to one or two institutional clients.___Resources for Property Managers & Real Estate Entrepreneurs:Crane – Private PM Owner Community → Join a private network of property management owners and operators: https://joincrane.co/Free Weekly Newsletter → Property management insights, strategies, and industry updates direct to your inbox: https://peter.beehiiv.com/subscribeRL Property Management → Learn more about Peter's company and services in Columbus, Ohio: https://rlpmg.com/__Disclaimer: The content of this news video is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. I may have consulting agreements with, or financial interests in, companies mentioned in this podcast (more info here: https://www.peterlohmann.com/financial-interest-disclosure ). Additionally, some of the links included may be affiliate links, meaning I may earn a commission if you purchase through these links. Always perform your own due diligence before making any financial or business decisions.

GarageCast dives into the world of dealer financing with John Durnian and Russell Baqir of Northpoint Financial. From floorplan lending and used-inventory financing to navigating cash-flow challenges, they share how relationship-driven financing helps marine and powersports dealers thrive. Plus, a look at industry trends, emerging technology, and what the future of retail looks like.UPDATE 2027 is back.Join Garage Composites January 31–February 1 for one of the powersports and marine industry's premier training and networking events.Featuring industry training, 20 Clubs, and opportunities for dealers, manufacturers, vendors, owners, and managers to connect and grow.Bring your team and plan to join us for UPDATE 2027.

How does one of the most influential mega-churches in the country handle their production, and what makes their team culture so unique?In this episode, we are joined by Bailey Binder of North Point Church. We dive into the personal journey of making the massive decision to move out of state for a new ministry role. Then, we pull back the curtain on North Point, breaking down what makes their church culture so wildly different, how their massive church tech setups are designed, and the exact strategies they use to manage their production volunteers.In this episode you'll hear: 0:00 Intro: Blake & Toby's Lifetime Achievement Awards4:45 Bailey Binder (North Point Church) Joins11:00 Navigating a Move to an Out-of-State Church Role15:30 What Makes North Point Church's Culture So Different?25:30 Behind the Scenes: The North Point Church Tech Setup28:15 How North Point Manages Production Volunteers34:15 Church Tech Disaster Story37:30 Keep Sundays Running: The Importance of Self-CareGet expert help and care on your next integration project with our friends at HouseRight here.  Get more money back in your budget and more space in your closet by selling us your used gear here. Resources for your Church Tech MinistrySell Us Gear: Does your church have used gear that you need to convert into new ministry dollars? We can make you an offer here. Buy Our Gear: Do you need some production gear but lack the budget to buy new gear? You can shop our gear store here.  Connect with us: Sales Bulletin: Get better deals than the public and get them earlier too here!Early Service: Get our best gear before it goes live on our site here. Instagram: Hangout with us on the gram here! Reviews: Leaving us a review on the podcast player you're listening to us on really helps the show. If you enjoyed this episode, you can say thank you with a review! 

Carbon monoxide, kickbacks, avionics upgrades, and leaning radials are on tap. Email podcasts@aopa.org for a chance to be on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: Bill has a Cessna 210 and in climb he gets 50-100 ppm on his CO gauge. When he levels and goes lean of peak it goes back to normal. He's also noticed that if he puts the heat on he also doesn't have a high reading on his gauge. It's not from a hole in the firewall, Paul says. The most common places it can come in are from the header tanks where they come in through the belly, the steering boots on the nose gear, the down-lock boots on the main gear down-locks, the pilot's cabin door (look for light in the lower left corner of the door for light while in flight). The level goes down when he turns on the heat because he's pressurizing the cabin, which keeps the CO draft out. And he doesn't get it at LOP because he doesn't have nearly as much un-combusted fuel in this state, the driver of CO. Bob has a Cessna 182 and it has a North Point (nee P-Ponk) engine with an MT prop and experienced a kickback during start. He's wondering how to move forward. His mechanic recommended removing one of the impulse couplings (he has two). The kickback would occur if one of them didn't activate properly, Paul said. If the ignition fires early during the start process, the impulse coupling delays the spark until top dead center. If it fails, it doesn't delay it, and the kickback occurs. When the kickback happens, the nylon gears in the mags are stressed, the spring in the starter adapter can break. The hosts recommend changing that and inspecting the impulse coupling. The hosts gristle when Bob mentioned the MT prop. It's so much lighter than aluminum, and they result in many more kickbacks. Kyle is wondering about the leaning philosophy on the R-985 engine on the Beaver he flies. The manual cautions against leaning below 5,000 feet, and he's wondering what the hosts think. Colleen said since it's his employer's airplane and there's no engine monitor in the Beaver to just keep it full rich as directed. Mike said he might fly it in cruise just like a typical 4-cylinder and lean to the onset of roughness and enrichen it only until smooth again. Erick is looking at purchasing a Columbia 400 with legacy avionics and he's thinking ahead to potential long-term maintenance issues. The hosts explain the potential repair, maintenance, and replacement options. These include the Avidyne yearly maintenance fee he can choose to do with Avidyne, or he could install Garmin, which is STC'd. The MFD has an AD to replace the battery after 10 years.

What happens when a multifamily CEO with 18,000 doors under his belt jumps into single-family… and says SFR is the bigger opportunity?!Dan French nearly went bankrupt during the Great Financial Crisis, slept in vacant units, ruined his credit for a decade, and used every lesson to eventually scale a multifamily platform from 2,500 to 18,000 doors. Now he's CEO of Northpoint, one of the largest SFR management companies in the country, and he's building something fundamentally different: separate divisions for scattered-site SFR, BTR, and small multifamily - all running on a shared platform.We discuss:(00:00:00) - Intro(00:01:45) - Dan's background and career(00:08:39) - Northpoint(00:14:54) - Sponsor - Enterprise Bank & Trust(00:16:18) - SFR following in the footsteps of multifamily(00:26:07) - The difference between BTR and SFR(00:30:47) - The division of labor in PM(00:34:28) - Sponsor - Haven AI(00:35:57) - How a PM would implement a BTR community(00:40:51) - Northpoint and their acquisition strategy(00:45:43) - Separating unit churn from revenue churn(00:50:27) - The melting iceberg problem(00:58:19) - Dan's experience with Crane(01:00:44) - The competitiveness of MF property management(01:04:26) - The lack of ‘scaffolding' in SFR(01:10:15) - Getting in touch with DanWe get into the "melting iceberg" problem that's killing PM roll-ups (and why most buyers underestimate churn), how to build a trust layer with owners that actually reduces churn, why he thinks tech is not a moat (and what is), and why the Innovator's Dilemma means SFR operators are better positioned to move upmarket than multifamily firms are to come down.Dan also shares his take on NRR vs. logo churn, the talent scaffolding gap between MF and SFR, and why North Point is keeping acquired brands intact instead of rebranding day one.Learn more and connect with Dan here: NorthpointLinkedinResources for Property Managers & Real Estate EntrepreneursCrane – Private PM Owner Community → Join a private network of property management owners and operators: https://joincrane.co/Free Weekly Newsletter → Property management insights, strategies, and industry updates direct to your inbox: https://peter.beehiiv.com/subscribeRL Property Management → Learn more about Peter's company and services in Columbus, Ohio: https://rlpmg.com/___Disclaimer: The content of this podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. I may have consulting agreements with, or financial interests in, companies mentioned in this podcast. Additionally, some of the links included may be affiliate links, meaning I may earn a commission if you purchase through these links. Always perform your own due diligence before making any financial or business decisions.

This week on The Riff, Martz and Drew sit down to talk about the Easter bunny, crostini's and what you can expect this Easter at North Point! We hope today is helpful. Thanks for listening!

Drake Baldwin, Atlanta Braves C and reigning NL ROY, joined The Locker Room live from North Point as Spring Training wraps up and talked about his faith in the Braves Starting Pitchers, how he eats on the road, how much does he pay attention to analytics and moreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Drake Baldwin, Atlanta Braves C and reigning NL ROY, joined The Locker Room live from North Point as Spring Training wraps up and talked about his faith in the Braves Starting Pitchers, how he eats on the road, how much does he pay attention to analytics and moreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Grapefruit League play is still five days away but the Braves have already dealt with their share of set backs. How is our new skipper holding up? He sat down with his boys Nick & Chris as they begin their week in North Port. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Andy and Abe get in to the Braves at the start of Spring Training, and something positive coming from Ronald Acuña Jr. There are a lot of other positives out of North Point thus far...

State Representative Ron Bolton (R) from Northpoint joins Greg for a Statehouse sit-down to discuss his bill to increase penalties for prostitution and human trafficking. They talk about the scope of the problem in Alabama, why stronger penalties matter, and how the legislation seeks to protect victims while targeting traffickers and exploiters.

Christmas Eve at North Point 2025Andy Stanley00:00:00https://storage.sardius.media/8d5F99

Today on The Riff, Drew and Jon sit down to talk about Drew's second week at North Point... Next week..... Might even hear about his third. We hope today is helpful. Thanks for listening!!

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We're talking with Aaron Stanski, founder and CEO of Risepointe, a firm that partners with churches across the country to design and build facilities that amplify ministry impact. With more than 15 years of experience in church architecture, project management, and ministry leadership, Aaron and his team help churches navigate complex building challenges while staying focused on mission. Is your church facing growing pains—crowded lobbies, full parking lots, or overwhelmed kids' spaces—but unsure how to move forward? Aaron shares practical insights on how to approach facility planning strategically, align vision with budget, and avoid the costly mistakes that can slow down momentum. Overcoming the overwhelm. // When churches consider expansion or renovation, leaders often feel paralyzed by the process. Questions about cost, zoning, design, and disruption quickly pile up. Too often, churches jump straight to hiring an architect before defining their real needs. Instead, churches should first clarify what's working, what's broken, and what's next before anyone draws plans. Start with scope and budget. // The two guardrails of every successful project are scope (what you're building) and budget (what you can spend). Aaron warns that skipping this step often leads to beautiful drawings that churches can't afford. Risepointe begins with a Needs Analysis, an on-site deep dive into the church's DNA, culture, and challenges. The team listens to staff, studies how people use the building, and identifies bottlenecks—whether it's the children's hallway, lobby congestion, or limited parking. Only then do they define the right-size project and realistic cost range. The power of early engagement. // Most churches wait too long to start planning. Zoning approvals, fundraising, and construction all take longer than expected, especially in urban areas. Waiting too long forces rushed design work, unclear budgets, and lost ministry opportunities. You don't have to build everything at once. Start with a plan that captures the next few wins—like improving your lobby or kids' check-in—while preparing for long-term growth. Knowing when it's time. // Aaron says early warning signs include maxing out your primary service, overflowing kids' spaces, and parking lots at capacity. Many pastors misjudge space needs because they see the auditorium every Sunday but rarely experience the parking or early childhood chaos firsthand. Evaluating your entire Sunday experience—entry to exit—reveals where capacity problems really begin. Aligning buildings with ministry models. // Every church facility reflects a ministry philosophy—but those philosophies evolve. Where there used to be 40-year ministry cycles, now they are closer to 10 to 20. Churches shaped by the seeker-sensitive movement, for example, are now adapting to relational, community-driven models. Spaces that once emphasized rows and stages now need more environments for conversations, mentoring, and connection. A free resource for leaders. // To help churches begin the conversation, Aaron's team created a free guide called “10 Things to Get Right Before You Build.” The resource walks through key questions every church should answer before launching a building project—from clarifying vision and budget to preparing for change. You can download it and schedule a free consultation at risepointe.com/unseminary. To learn more about Risepointe's work helping churches align facilities with mission, visit risepointe.com/unseminary or follow Risepointe on Instagram for inspiration and project stories. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it's time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have decided to tune in. You know, across the country, we keep hearing about churches that are growing and we’re seeing swelling attendance and that’s good. Some of that is like a platinum problem though. It generates other issues that we have to think about. And so what what I did was pull on a friend of mine, Aaron Stanski, he’s the founder and CEO of Risepointe. He’s got 15 plus years of church design, leadership and project management and experience. Rich Birch — If you don’t know Risepointe, where have you been? You’re living under a rock. They’re church architects and designers. They have years of experience working with churches like yours, schools and nonprofits, and they offer a wide range wide variety of services, including architecture, interior design, graphic design, branding, and so much more. Aaron is, I like Aaron not just because he actually has got incredible skills. His team’s got incredible skills, but he really actually wants to help churches like you. And so Aaron, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here. Aaron Stanski — Yeah, I’m glad to be here, Rich. Rich Birch — It’s going to be good. Give give people, you’ve been on a couple of times… Aaron Stanski — Yeah. Rich Birch — …and but give us again, for folks that haven’t heard, the Aaron Stanski, you know, a couple bullet points. Aaron Stanski — Sure. Rich Birch — What did I miss? What do you want to fill in the picture? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, ah you know the quick story is grew up in ministry. My dad was a pastor growing up, planted a we planted a church in Boston when I was a kid. Went to school for engineering, worked for Harley Davidson Motorcycles, did big projects, project management and stuff for them for a while. And then felt called to ministry. Aaron Stanski — So left Harley Davidson, was on staff with Cru for a couple years doing college ministry before I jumped on staff at a fast growing multi-site church here in Chicago. So loved that, loved being part of that ministry team. And then, of course, we went through a big building project. So got to roll up my sleeves on the on the church staff side of things and hire architects and engineers and AV consultants and really kind of combine my my engineering mind and my ministry heart. And so absolutely love that process. And so, yeah, I’ve been helping churches now for the last 15, 16 years. It’s been an absolute blast. Rich Birch — So good. Well, the the kind of person I want to have in mind today, and so friends, if if you’re listening in, if this sounds a little bit like you, you’re going to want to pay close attention. So I’m thinking about that church, you know, the leader that looks around, they maybe have got, maybe they got two services. Rich Birch — They’re looking around and they’re seeing, ooh, they feel like maybe their growth ah is starting to create some pinch points. Maybe it’s in kids. Maybe it’s in adults. Maybe it’s their lobby. It’s they look around and they’re like, man, I just I feel like our facility might be holding us back a little bit. um And because I do bump into this in churches all the time. Aaron Stanski — Sure. Rich Birch — And there’s like, there can be like a certain amount of anxiety and fear around, gosh, when do I, what do I do? So when you talk to pastors, what do you know notice as one of the kind of most common point of confusion when it comes to starting or pulling the trigger, moving on with a building project, expansion project, try to improve things. Where are we getting this wrong? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, I think ah like one, the whole process itself can just be completely overwhelming. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — Like immediately you’re confronted with, ah oh my goodness, like what’s the right solution? What is the, ah what is the town or the, you know, the jurisdiction going to allow us to do? What is this all going to cost? Where are we going to do church in the meantime if we’re having to fix this building or add on to it? Rich Birch — Yes, yes. Aaron Stanski — I mean, immediately all of these questions start to kind of well up and it can become ah really overwhelming for a lot of churches. Rich Birch — So good. So when when we step back, is there any one of those that you think in particular is like a piece of the puzzle that is the most kind of mysterious or is the most um confusing as as you that you bump into regularly with leaders? Aaron Stanski — I mean, I think the most confusing is probably like, what’s the right solution? Rich Birch — Okay. Yep. Aaron Stanski — A lot of times it’s a combination of like, you know, we feel like we’re out of space, so we have to add on. But if we do that, we’re going to have to modify what we already have. And what we have is old, or there’s some maintenance on it that we haven’t gotten around to. And like, what can we do in this space? And so actually the the right solution is is probably one of the most difficult things to kind of imagine for a lot of pastors. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — And, you know, then right behind that is like. What’s it going to cost? Right. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — I mean, you know, for the last four or five years, we’ve seen a lot of inflation. We’ve seen a lot of different things happening, like with pricing and stuff. And so what used to be a pretty easy calculation for us as churches now, it feels like it’s a lot foggier as far as like what what things are just going to cost. Rich Birch — Yeah. So I’ve heard church leaders at this this juncture, they start thinking like, okay, like we got to get an architect. Get me the architect, the the person that designed this building 25 years ago. Where are they? Are they still in business? And, you know, we start going down that road. I’m not even really sure what an architect does. Like, I obviously, you you draw things. But, like, help us understand what what is the piece of the puzzle that, like, an architect brings to the table. Aaron Stanski — Right. Rich Birch — And I know that’s, like, a subset of what you guys do. Pretend that I’m, like, super dumb because it’s probably not actually worry about pretending too much there. Explain what that is. What is that service? And is that actually what we need at this juncture? Is that the first question? Like, get the architect. Come in here. Explain that whole thing. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, well, I think we have to be careful. Sometimes hiring an architect is like picking up a hammer, right? And for a lot of architects who were, you know, traditionally trained and might have like one sort of, you know, viewpoint of the world. Like their job is to come in and draw something new um that’s going to sort of solve your problem. The challenge with that is a lot of times that architect is just looking for ah one type of solution, ah which is build you something new, add something on. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — And they’re looking at it very narrowly through the lens of what the solution is going to be. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. Aaron Stanski — And a lot of times they’re not, you know, kind of able to kind of step back and take a look at strategically and say, okay, before we start drawing plans and blueprints and some of those sorts of things, let’s really talk about like what’s going really well at your church and how are we going to amplify what you’re already doing well? How are we going to add some, you know, some pieces around it? And then of course, how are we going to fix some of the big, you know, some of the bigger problems? Aaron Stanski — So an architect technically, right? I mean, it’s a licensed professional. Their job is to lead your organization through the process from the very beginning all the way through the stages of design. Their job is to make sure that the solution is aligned with your with who you are as an organization and your budget. And they’re supposed to help all the way through construction, making sure that it gets built the way that it was designed and and that it gets you know all the questions get answered and that it’s ultimately safe. Aaron Stanski — So that’s what an architect does. I think the I think the thing that we miss a little bit on the front end is in order for the architect to start, we really need kind of need to know what the scope of the work is and the budget first. Rich Birch — So good. Okay. Okay. Good. Aaron Stanski — If we don’t put those two guardrails on the left and the right-hand side, we’re really missing out. The left-hand side should be scope. The right-hand side should be budget. And we should nail those down before we get going into designing. Rich Birch — Okay. I want to unpack that because I know, I actually texted you recently. Friends, getting you behind the scenes a little bit. I had a friend of mine, they had done exactly what we talked about here. They were like, we went and hired an architect to help with this thing. And they came back with a ginormous number um that was like, I would say a factor, you know, three or four times what I thought. And what do I know? I don’t know anything. Rich Birch — And I actually think it was these guardrails where they went off off on it. They didn’t start with scope and budget. They started with, hey, here’s a problem, architect – solve it for us. And they came back with this, you know, very incredible initial drawing and all that. Rich Birch — Talk us through how do we nail down scope and budget from the beginning? Talk us through what does that look like? Aaron Stanski — Yeah, so I would say, ah you know, you want to find a ministry partner who’s going to come in and really kind of help ah flesh out some of those pieces, really understand what’s working well, what’s not working well, what’s missing, where do we have to clarify what it is that we’re doing in order so to sort of establish that. And and there’s ah there’s a lot of great partners out there who can help you do that. But you’re really looking for someone in the building/design/construction space who has experience who has a lot of experience, honestly, with churches and understands what it means to, you know, serve people who’ve been part of your church for 20, 30 years and keep them on mission and disciple them up, as well as welcoming people who are walking into your doors for the very first time. Aaron Stanski — So at Risepointe, we walk through a process called The Needs Analysis, where we get on site with, you know, a church for an entire day and understand their DNA and really understand what’s working and not working and stuff. And we start with that so that we can sketch out some ideas and some concepts and stuff around what is the what is the scope of work that’s going to solve the problem or fix the lid or add the seats that we need? And what’s the budget that we feel like God’s calling us to spend as a church in order to go do that? And we want to start with that before we jump into full architecture. Rich Birch — Okay, so sidebar question. Is it possible for someone to help us at this early kind of scoping phase without doing some sort of on-site? Like, can I just call an architect and say, hey, here’s the problem. I need to add a thousand seats. How much is that going to cost? And then they go away and come back with a number. Or, or you know, are is there, yeah, can they do that? Talk us through that. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, you can. I mean, you can call up Risepointe and I’ll get on the phone with you. The, and, but there’s going to be a range, right? Rich Birch — Okay. Aaron Stanski — And I can say like, Hey, here’s the last 10 churches that we’ve done a thousand seat auditoriums at… Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — …and here’s kind of the range and stuff. The problem with shortcutting to that is you miss a lot of things, right? Each jurisdiction is different, like how the civil engineering works, the parking requirements and stuff. Rich Birch — Right. Good. Yep. Aaron Stanski — And those really affect the budget. And so we want to understand those first. And the second thing is, I mean, every church that we work with is and incredibly unique in the people that they’re reaching, and the values that those people have and whether they’re de-churched or unchurched and and who they’re running into and and stuff. And so really kind of understanding that context is so important um before we jump into, you know, sort of solution. Aaron Stanski — But yeah, I mean, since we work with churches all over the country, I mean, if someone called me up, I could probably, I could probably put my thumb in the air and give them a ah swag on what that might cost. Rich Birch — Yeah. And I would, you know, it’s funny because I’ve, I’ve recommended people have asked me those kinds of questions and I always actually say exactly what, you know, where you led, which is like, you should call my friend Aaron and, but, but what you should do, get on the, do the like free call or whatever, get on the book a time. But I said, you really should do this Needs Analysis thing. Cause the project that you’re facing is always much larger than you think. Rich Birch — And I would rather people take time, invest the resources upfront and time, frankly, to slow down and say let’s actually understand the question we’re asking before we jump to answers, right? Like what because because we could get this thing wrong and actually that gets to this whole idea of how early is too early. My experience has been people wait too long before they engage with someone like you. They they get into like their third service, fourth service. They’re like, oh gosh, people aren’t going to the fifth service. Maybe we have to figure out how to get more space. Talk us about, you know, what mistakes do we make when we wait too long without engaging with someone like you? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, I’d say, you know, the thing to keep in mind is that you’re, if you’re the average church that reaches out to Risepointe, you’re somewhere between two and a half and three years away from having any sort of new space. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Okay. Aaron Stanski — And that’s on the short end. We have churches who are bringing new space online five years after they’ve reached out to us because they’re, they live in downtown areas… Rich Birch — Wow. Aaron Stanski — …very challenging jurisdictions and some things like that. Rich Birch — Yep. Aaron Stanski — And so when we’re thinking about when is the right time, I think, yeah, earlier is definitely better. But we have to be careful ah that we’re strategically spending dollars even on the front end, you know, so that we, you know, we’re getting out of it what we need. Aaron Stanski — As leaders, what questions are we asking that we need answers for in order to determine is it the right time to move forward with a building project? Is it a right time to launch a campus or go multi-site or some things like that? Aaron Stanski — If you wait too long, typically what happens is either we’re we’re rushing through the design process to kind of hit the capital campaign stuff and there’s budget misalignment. All of a sudden we thought it might be this, but now this is the actual budget for what it’s going to work. Aaron Stanski — And I think when that happens, there starts to be some vision confusion. You know, we’re looking at solutions that we kind of rushed through and it doesn’t feel like we really thought all of those things through. And so I think that’s another one. Aaron Stanski — And then I just think, you know, there’s there’s some missed ministry opportunities if if we kind of wait too long. I think a lot of times when we’re planning out, here’s the multiple phases of how we develop this campus and expand it. You know, we miss out on opportunities to go get some smaller things done sooner… Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — …capture momentum, you you know, fix the welcome center, like invest some dollars in something we know we’re not going to tear down, make it better for guests in a couple months. And we miss out on those things if we don’t have a bigger, more strategic plan. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. Yeah, kind of a step back and say, hey, how does this fit into where everything that’s going on? Rich Birch — What would be kind of double clicking on that? What would be some indicators internally that would say, hey, um you know, these things are happening. I should really reach out to Risepointe. What would be some of the things that you would see as telltale signs that it’s now a time to to kind of take this step? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, I think if we’re, you know, if we’re really pushing towards our, those max numbers at our primary service, I think that’s a, that’s definitely an early indicator. Aaron Stanski — A lot of churches just kind of reach out and say, Hey, okay, here’s, here’s kind of where we’re at. Here’s where the math is at. Like, can you look at this like from a, like how much kids area should we have? How much lobby space should we have? And we can run some quick math for them and say, Hey, you don’t have any other lids. You’re looking good. You, you probably have a few more years of growth in you. Aaron Stanski — So that would be one. You know i think if ah you know we’re starting to talk about ah adding a third or fourth service, it’s probably a little bit too late, but we should probably get on it sooner than later. Aaron Stanski — And then, you know, one of the, one of the other things too, is just kind of paying attention. It’s easy for us on Sundays to stand on the stage and look out and get a pretty good sense of, are there enough seats? Is there space for me here? And like, we look out and we see some empty chairs. Aaron Stanski — Keep in mind that when you’re coming in from the back of the auditorium, it’s a lot harder to see some of those empty chairs. Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — And so what is the percentage? But the other thing is the things that we’re not seeing when more when we’re on stage on Sunday is we’re not seeing the parking lot. We’re not seeing the early childhood wing that’s basically a it’s a it’s a disaster back there. There’s kids running around like crazy. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Aaron Stanski — And so even if we’re ah even if we have enough seats, like or we’re not at the 80 or 90 percent capacity to our primary service. We need to be looking out at some of these other areas and making sure that there’s not a lid somewhere else. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah. In fact, I literally just last weekend said that to a church. I was, you know, I was doing a weekend visit where I was on site and all that stuff. And, and it, to me, it felt like the building, the parking, and the kids, and the main auditorium, they, or the adult auditorium, they just didn’t match. It was like they, the three were out of alignment. And I think they had enough kids, but you know, I don’t know. There was, it’s interesting how that can happen. And you know the lead pastor typically is seeing um only the adult room and not you know not anything else. Rich Birch — Early on, you know there’s my experience has been and projects that have been a part of that I would rather spend money as personally as a leader. I’m not saying, friends, if you’re listening in, that you need to necessarily do this. Rich Birch — I would rather spend money on the front end with a designer like you. Because because the joke I’ve made is it’s a lot cheaper to move walls on drawings than it is in in the real world. And I’ve that comes from pain of building stuff… Aaron Stanski — It’s true. Yeah. Rich Birch — …of building stuff, and then being literally I opened up a new facility and then stood there with a kids ministry person. And the kids ministry person was like, oh, I didn’t think it was going to look like this. I was like, oh my goodness, what what are you talking about? Aaron Stanski — Shoot. Rich Birch — Like, we just opened this new facility. Talk us through, like, what’s an investment on the front end to reach out to someone like you? Aaron Stanski — Sure. Rich Birch — How do you help churches see that hiring someone like you can actually save us resources in the long haul? Talk us through that. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, starting out at the beginning and getting really clear about where we’re going and how we’re going to get there, it really helps us, you know, cart and like make sure we don’t overbuild or underbuild. Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — It makes sure that like compared to all the other churches that we’re working with all over the country, that we’re in alignment with where the square footage is at and it’s aligned with how you do ministry locally, how you use these spaces seven days a week. Aaron Stanski — And so it’s it’s really making sure that we’re not overbuilding or underbuilding anywhere because that’s ah you know that’s a huge that’s a huge miss if we do that. And that’s probably one of the biggest cost savings. Aaron Stanski — The other thing is you know during you know during sort of that season of vision and master planning and when we’re talking to our folks about what God’s doing at the church and we’re telling stories of life change, like we’re really kind of laying out a vision for what God is calling us to do as a ministry. And people just naturally have questions around like, like, how is this going to help? And and how is this actually going to help us reach my lost coworker, my lost neighbor? Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — And, and so I think, you know, spending the time to do that, really translating sort of the mission and vision into physical space needs and producing some of those renderings that accompany that story. I mean, that’s just a really critical part. Rich Birch — Okay, so let’s double click on that. That’s that I feel like I have been caught in this situation where I get I get like, it’s the hammer and nail thing you you say. Like, I’m I’m pretty sure I know what the solution is. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. Rich Birch — Like, let’s go do this. And I like that what you’re saying is like, hey, we need to take a step back and like actually think through how does this fit in our vision and how’s that all? How do you actually do that? How do you help a leadership team discern what the problem is that they’re really needing to solve, or should be solving, rather than just let’s build a bigger box. Or, I know! We just need 25 new parking spots. Like how do we not jump too quickly to that? What’s that look like? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, it looks like, you know, spending time. Rich Birch — Good. And and, really getting to know them and what makes them unique. Like we have a fantastic set of tools that we use at Risepointe to like really talk about, you know, let’s talk about, uh, outside the walls, right? Like who, who are we called to reach? And, and what does it mean to do ministry in this place that God has uniquely put your church in the geographic area? Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — And let’s talk about the tension between this side of town and that side of town. And let’s, you know, let’s wrestle with, you know, some of those issues. And then let’s, and then let’s talk about like, like, man, who are we as a church on our best day? And what does it feel like when we’re like living up to our full potential? Aaron Stanski — And then we even get into some of the things around like, man, what are what are some of the strategic drivers? What’s driving more people hearing about Jesus? What’s working really well? What do you see as opportunities or things that where if you had the right leader or finances that you’d be able to you know, accomplish even more of your mission. Aaron Stanski — And so by starting there and then starting to work down towards, okay, where is your facility aligned with that with that exercise and where is it misaligned? Okay, let’s unpack that a little bit. And then without getting into ah the solution yet, I want to meet like individually with each you know ministry leader… Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — …talk about what how check-in works and all of those things. Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — And so it’s really sort of this almost like a 360 review of what’s happening between the mission and vision God’s given us, and how are our facilities helping or hindering that mission and vision. Aaron Stanski — And then it just comes down to budget. And so, okay, here are the possible solutions. Here’s what roughly what some of those things are going to cost. And then it’s going to the, going to God in prayer and saying, okay, what are you calling us to do? What are based on these options and trying to figure it out? Rich Birch — I want I want to come back to the budget question in a second. But I’ve I think I probably have stole this off you. I have said to multiple church leaders that like our buildings were built, there was like a philosophical underpinning of the the buildings that we were built with. There was a ministry model that they were built on. Aaron Stanski — Sure. Yeah. Rich Birch — And then there’s been a lag between when we made those decisions, we’ve we built them. Now we’ve been using them for X number of years. And our ministry model may no longer be the same as the building, or probably isn’t actually the same as when the building was built. Rich Birch — What’s your sense on how long that lag time is kind of between the, they they you know, we built something. If we built something more than 10 years ago, you know we probably want to readdress or look at our facilities afresh and say does this actually meet the needs of… Aaron Stanski — Sure. Rich Birch — Because I feel like so many of us are in like the the cramped shoes that just don’t quite fit they work but they don’t quite fitWhat do you think that lag time is? Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, the lag time is getting shorter and shorter. Rich Birch — Okay. Aaron Stanski — It used to be, you know, it probably used to be 40 or 50 years… Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — …you know, without major ministry model shifts and stuff. Obviously, you know, Willow Creek, North Point, you know, coming onto of the scene in the in the late 90s and stuff really shifted. We have churches all the way up into the 2000s, even into the 2010s that sort of copied the model of the Willow Creeks and some of those things. And I think we’re seeing, you know, we’re seeing the model shifting a lot faster now. Rich Birch — Interesting. Aaron Stanski — I’d say, you know, you know, we’re probably in a faster 10 to 20 year cycle, something like that. But I think we’re coming out of the, you know, the, you know, that model of Willow Creek and North Point and stuff. And we’re, we’re moving into a new season. And it’s kind of exciting for us. Rich Birch — Yeah. Aaron Stanski — I mean, we get to, we get to sit on the front edge of all of that. Churches like in fantastic places, being creative, reaching, you know, people for Christ. And so it’s just interesting to kind of observe some of those things and, um and observe what’s working really well and, and where it we can improve, you know? Rich Birch — Yeah. You’re baiting me. What are those things that you’ve seen that have shifted? There’s got to be, or is that the magic? We got to call Aaron to find out. Aaron Stanski — No, you don’t have to call Aaron. No, I mean, the thing, I mean, like, you know, I heard someone share this with me recently, right? I mean, every Netflix account homepage is different for every person, all billion subscribers or whatever that they have. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — They’re individually tailored to to those individuals. And I know that because when I had a bunch of seventh grade boys spend the night at my house, like my algorithm got so messed up on my Netflix account last weekend. Rich Birch — Love it. Love it. Aaron Stanski — But I think there is a shift away from you know some of the bigger, more institutional types of look and feel and trying to get down to, okay, how are we engaging one-on-one with people who are walking in and where they’re at. Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — How do we, you know, instead of preach a sermon at them, how do we hear their story? And what does it look like for us to hear their story in in various places, whether that’s a welcome center, whether that’s, ah you know, side by side in the pew, whether that’s in sort of a first steps class. And so there’s a shift on that side of things… Rich Birch — Yep. Yeah, that’s interesting. Aaron Stanski — …just like as we look at the next generation and how we engage and reach the next generation. Rich Birch — Okay, I want to loop back on the money question. So for folks that don’t know, a part of what I do is actually help churches with that. And don’t really talk about it publicly, but I do. And, you know, there is this interesting tension that churches often come to this. It’s like we think we’re different than our ourselves. Rich Birch — And that if I was going to go build a new house, I would have to start with, well, how much income do I have? And like, what can the, you know, what can the, you know, what what would the what would the bank give me from a mortgage point of view? Like I start with reality around my finances. But so many churches start with, let’s build this giant thing. And it’s totally disconnected from the from what we could actually afford to either raise or carry long-term. Rich Birch — How much variance can a church bring to a design? Like if they upfront are defining, Hey, like we can afford probably 5 million. I know I’ve got $35 million dollars in dreams or maybe not. That’s, that’s too crazy. I got $15 million dollars in dreams. Is it possible for me to, to actually get that into a tighter box? Help us understand how do we do that? How do we on the front end be realistic with our finances as we’re doing this design thing? Aaron Stanski — Yeah, I mean, I think we have to with open hands, we have to hold out the, you know, the dreams, the vision, you know, the stuff that God’s given us. And we have to prayerfully sort of go through that exercise and say, okay, ah but how much risk do I want to introduce into the organization, like via debt? Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — What what is God actually calling us to do with those things? And we have to be creative in how we and and how we get across the finish line. I think when I when I hear sometimes a senior pastor sharing with me his $35 million dollars vision, Rich… Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yes. Aaron Stanski — …what I immediately try to do is say, okay, talk to me about what it is about that $35 million dollar thing that’s resonating with you. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good. That’s good. Aaron Stanski — And so even though he’s describing something that’s $35 million, dollars and as an architect, I might get really excited about drawing $35 million dollars worth of stuff. Rich Birch — Yes. Aaron Stanski — If he actually can’t afford it and can’t raise it, he’s actually not going to go do it. Rich Birch — Right. Aaron Stanski — So I need to go back to that vision and say, okay, what are the pieces in there that are from God, that are ah that are aligned with the mission that his church has and stuff? And I need to contextualize that. And then as an architect, as a designer, I have to turn around and say, okay, with my guardrails in place of budget and scope, how do I express those things… Rich Birch — That’s good. Aaron Stanski — …in the $5 million dollars that God has entrusted our church with? And so there’s going to be a lot of difficult decisions along the way. We’re going to have to prioritize some things. And some other things might have to go on the back burner. But that’s the process that we want to help churches walk through um to to get them to that point where they’re walking into a space for the first time and going, oh, man, this feels like us. Like this is this is who God wants us to be in our community. And I’m so excited about doing ministry in this new space. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. So it’s it’s not, from what I hear you saying, it’s not unreasonable on the front end to be like, hey, we should actually bring, like, be clear on this is this is what we think we can actually raise. This is that what we think we can carry. We think we could do a project of X, whatever. And that needs to be early on in the discussion rather than we’re disappointed on the back end. Oh my goodness, we got this this big number and we don’t know what to do with it. Aaron Stanski — Yeah, I like to be doing it simultaneously. I like to be doing the Needs Analysis and working through, okay, here’s the eight different project options. You can relocate and spend $35 million. You can add on. You can you can do this. All right, here’s your here’s your four options, $10, $8, $6, $4 million dollars And at the same time, I like to encourage churches to like, okay, go talk to someone like yourself… Rich Birch — Yep. Aaron Stanski — …and say, okay, what do we think we could raise if we did a capital campaign? How much debt do we currently have? How do our elders feel about us you know borrowing some money if it if it makes a bigger impact on the project? Because if we can bring those two things together and pray through it and get clarity from God about what he’s asking us to do, then I can go ah help draw buildings and blueprints and things like that. Rich, you can help them raise some money and they and we can you know we can go through that process. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, it’s great. And you know, my experience has been every one of those steps, friends, is, it’s a lot of work. It’s, it’s like a, it’s a faith ah stretching experience. There are late, late nights staring at the ceiling, but every one of those I’ve been a part of, literally 100% of them have been transformative in the life of the church. You know, when they, when you look back, you’re like, wow, that was an inflection point. I am so glad we went through that. It wasn’t this like we did that and I was like, man, that wasn’t such so good in the end. It was really was amazing. Rich Birch — Well, there’s a resource that you’ve provided. It’s called 10 Things to Get ah Right Before You Build. Talk to us about this resource and then and then where can where can we want to make sure people get this. Tell us tell us a little bit about this. Aaron Stanski — Yeah, I mean, like with, you know, church, hundreds of churches calling us, you know, every year, asking a lot of the questions that we’ve talked about today. Like we tried to distill down what are the most common things the churches are like, okay, pause real quick. I got to go do something real fast before we decide that we can sort of move forward. And so some of these things are what happens like while you’re talking to Risepointe and some of these things might be before. But I think it’s just kind of a helpful reminder and ah a thoughtful list to kind of work through. Aaron Stanski — And so if that’s helpful at all, or if that’s interesting at all, um you can just go to risepointe.com/unseminary. And a little ah little landing page will pop up there. There’s two things you can do on that page. The first one is to just give us your name and your email there and sign up and get that 10 things to download. Aaron Stanski — I also threw another button on there this morning in case you’re like, hey, that sounds great, but I’ve got I’ve got a specific question I have about our building. Or like, I actually really need to talk to you guys about what our options are. And so I put another button down there at the bottom. If you want to schedule a call with myself or one of our architects, we’d love to hop on the phone with you. No charge for that. 30 minutes. Just kind of talk through where you’re at, what some of your questions are and see if we might be able to help. So ah once again, that’s risepointe.com/unseminary. And you can get all that, all that stuff right there. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s fantastic. That’s risepointe.com/unseminary. And friends, I’ve had multiple friends in ministry who have engaged with with Aaron across the entire spectrum. The like free 30 minute thing all the way up through, you know, the kind of full deal, help get a whole project out the door. And and just so happy with the work that Risepointe does. And just has been transformative for their churches. So you get a hearty endorsement from me. You really should do that. Again, that’s just risepointe.com/unseminary. You can pick this up. It is a helpful little PDF, and the schedule call is a great thing. Rich Birch — Well, Aaron, I appreciate you being here today. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. Rich Birch — If people want to track with you guys or if they’re anywhere else online, obviously risepointe.com. We want to send them to anywhere else online. We want to we want to send them to. Aaron Stanski — Yeah. I mean, you can always, uh, you know, follow us on the Insta or whatever you want to do there. Rich Birch — Nice. Love it. Aaron Stanski — If you’re into like, you know, cool pictures of like steel being erected, ah or, uh, kids ministry stuff or pictures and stuff, we’re trying to share a little bit more info there. But yeah, I mean, or just our website and, uh, yeah, stay connected. Rich Birch — That’s so good. Thanks for being here and have a good day, buddy. Aaron Stanski — All right, you too. Bye.

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We're talking with Tensley Almand, President and CEO of Atlanta Mission, the largest and longest-running provider of services for people experiencing homelessness in the Atlanta metro area. Founded in 1938 as a soup kitchen during the Great Depression, Atlanta Mission now operates four campuses, serving over 800 men, women, and children nightly through programs that provide housing, recovery support, and Christ-centered transformation. How do you lead through complexity while staying true to your calling? Tensley shares leadership lessons from his transition from church ministry to leading a $20 million nonprofit—insights that apply to every pastor or church leader navigating growth, complexity, or change. Moving beyond shelter to transformation. // While many think of Atlanta Mission as only an emergency shelter, over 60% of its beds are dedicated to long-term transformational programs that address root causes of homelessness. The yearlong program includes counseling, trauma recovery, life skills, and vocational training. Clients complete a four-week “Next Steps” program focused on relational, emotional, and workplace health. The results are remarkable: 70% of graduates maintain stable housing and employment a year later. Learning to lead by listening. // When Tensley stepped into his CEO role, he faced the challenge of succeeding a leader who had guided the organization from crisis to stability. Rather than arriving as the expert, Tensley began as what he calls the “Chief Question Officer.” He met with every employee to ask four key questions: What's right? What's wrong? What's missing? What's confusing? The responses revealed a clear need for strategic focus. Building clarity and focus. // Using that input, Tensley led a yearlong process to create a strategic roadmap—a seven-year plan that defines the organization's mission, values, and measurable outcomes. When there's clarity in an organization, saying ‘no' becomes easy and saying ‘yes' becomes difficult. The new strategy gave Atlanta Mission a unified framework for decision-making, with every initiative measured against the same mission. Measuring what matters. // Data fuels care. In order to better track client progress, the team at Atlanta Mission built dashboards, measuring not only how many people they serve but how lives are changing. When graduation rates dipped from 70% to 45%, they discovered the cause wasn't program failure but economic change. That same approach can transform church leadership. Churches measure nickels and noses, but what if we measured progression—how many first-time guests become group members, or how many volunteers grow into leaders? Partnership through presence. // Atlanta Mission thrives through partnerships with churches across the city. Tensley explains that relational poverty—people lacking healthy connections—is as debilitating as material poverty. Rather than only focusing on “do for” service projects, he encourages churches to create “be with” opportunities: hosting birthday parties, sharing meals, or building relationships with families at Atlanta Mission. Encouragement for leaders. // Reflecting on his own journey, Tensley reminds church leaders who feel stretched or uncertain that often you’ll overestimate what you can accomplish in 90 days, but underestimate what you can do in a year or two. Take time to listen, build unity, and stay faithful in the process. Over time, that faithfulness becomes transformation—both in the people you lead and in yourself. To learn more about Atlanta Mission, visit atlantamission.org or email to connect or schedule a visit. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have decided to tune in. We’ve got a real honored to have an incredible guest on today’s episode. We’ve got Tensley Almand with us. He is the president and CEO of Atlanta Mission. Rich Birch — Now, if you don’t know Atlanta Mission, I’m not sure where you’ve been. You really should know. This organization was founded in 1938 as a soup kitchen to feed men who were displaced by the Great Depression. And they just keep chugging along. They do incredible work. They now serve Metro Atlanta’s largest homeless population and bring hope in the face of homelessness, poverty, and addiction. Rich Birch — Prior to serving at Atlanta Mission, he was in vocational ministry for 20 plus years, the last 12 of those, as we were just saying in the pre-call. He said, felt like he had the the best job in the world, was a lead pastor at Decatur City Church, one of the eight Atlanta City, Atlanta area campuses of North Point Ministries. Tensley, welcome. So glad you’re here. Tensley Almand — Man, so good to be here. Thanks so much for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. Rich Birch — No, this is going to be good. I’m excited. Why don’t you kind of fill in the picture? Tell us a little bit more of your background and tell us a bit more about Atlanta Mission, that kind of thing. Just help set the table. Tensley Almand — Yeah, so I’m a native Atlantan. I grew up here, born and raised just north of the city. Yeah. Only child. Parents still live north of the city in the same town that I grew up in. Rich Birch — Nice. Tensley Almand — My wife and I, we have four kids. We have been married now, just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary… Rich Birch — Congratulations. That’s great. Tensley Almand — …which makes me feel old, but it’s it’s it’s all good. So four kids, three boys, little girl, they’re all just amazing, doing great things and in their worlds. We live over in city of Decatur. So ah for those that don’t know, just kind of just right outside of downtown Atlanta. So we feel like we’re living in the heart of the city. Rich Birch — Cool. Tensley Almand — Like you said, I spent 20 plus years on the church side of ministry, which you had told younger me that that was going to be my future, I probably would have laughed at you. Grew up in a family that church just frankly, wasn’t that important to us. My mom gets mad if I say I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, um, which, you know, looking back, I think is really true. I just grew up in a home that we didn’t feel like the church was for us. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so, um, after, you know, meeting Jesus in college, giving my life to him, which is a whole nother really cool story, started down the path towards ministry. And eventually several years into that kind of looked up and thought, I don’t know what I’m doing. Like I’m working at these churches that I don’t even want to attend. Tensley Almand — Like remember this very pivotal meeting in my life where our pastor asked us, he’s like, if I didn’t pay you to go to church here, is this the church you would attend? Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — And every one of us said no. Rich Birch — Oh, gosh. Oh, my goodness. Tensley Almand — And they were all okay with it. Rich Birch — Oh, no. Tensley Almand — And I just like something broke in me. Rich Birch — Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. Tensley Almand — And I remember going home and I told my wife, I was like, I can’t do this anymore. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so I started the process of just trying to find a job. But the problem is I’ve genuinely felt called by God to ministry. And so God used that to, to lead us down the path of starting Decatur City Church. And, um, our whole dream was just to create a church that people who didn’t like church would love to attend. Tensley Almand — And so, which is really cool. Again, it’s probably a whole other episode, but really cool because we got to do that in one of the most unchurched cities in Atlanta. 70% of the people who live in Decatur ah don’t go to a church. And Decatur, for those who don’t know, small little town right outside of a big city. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — But literally, there’s over 600 churches in that town. So we used to say all the time, nobody wakes up on Sunday wondering where a church is. They just wake up wondering if church is for them. Rich Birch — Right, right. Tensley Almand — And so that’s, that’s the thing we tried to solve. Right. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so did that for 12 years, thought I would do that with my whole life. Just an amazing season. And then God called me out of there to Atlanta Mission. And so for those who don’t know, and we can get into that story here if you want to, but, for those who don’t know, Atlanta mission, like you said, it’s the largest and longest running provider of services… Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — …for men, women, and children experiencing homelessness in our city. So for perspective, what that means is on any given night, we’ll have about 800 men, women, or children who are staying with us. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. That’s a significant operation. That’s, that’s incredible. Tensley Almand — It’s a significant operation. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — It represents that in our city, that represents about 35 to 40% of all the shelter beds in Atlanta. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Tensley Almand — So that’s, it’s a, it’s pretty remarkable opportunity that we do that across three campuses in downtown Atlanta. Rich Birch — Okay. Tensley Almand — One for men, two for women and children. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — And then we have this really cool drug and alcohol addiction facility out near Athens, which is about an hour outside of town, on 550 acre farm that is just beautiful ah for men who are in recovery from addiction. Rich Birch — Wow. Oh my goodness. Huh. Tensley Almand — So yeah. Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s, that’s incredible. i’m I’m glad you started with the kind of community size that you’re you’re serving. That’s, that’s amazing. Give me a sense of the operation from like a, you know, total number of staff, other kinds of metrics. Like I’m just trying to, I know, you know, you’re not a kind of person that’s going to brag about that kind of stuff, but just trying to help people kind of place, because this is a significant operation, friends. Atlanta Mission is it’s a world-class organization doing great work and honored to have you on this the show. But people might not be ah kind of aware of the the scale of it. Give us a bit more sense of that. Tensley Almand — Yeah, no, it’s a, it’s a good question. I appreciate you asking. Cause yeah, I definitely don’t, I don’t want to, I don’t like going there, but… Rich Birch — Yes. And it’s even just, it’s a funny thing to, it’s a funny thing to even like, it’s like, well, we’re really good. It’s like, it’s like, well, yeah, it’s a tough thing you’re doing. So it’s like, man, it’s a weird thing to kind of try to but get ah your arms around. How, how do we talk about this? Yeah. Tensley Almand — Yeah. So let me kind of give you scope and then let me talk a little bit about what we’re doing. So scope is ah we’re we’re about a $20 million dollars a year organization. Rich Birch — Yep. Yep. Tensley Almand — And so just like every church out there, that means, you know, we start July as the start of our fiscal year and we start at zero… Rich Birch — Yep. Tensley Almand — …and then we go and raise $20 million dollars… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …to meet the need of our expenses. And we do that through mainly private and and corporate donations. And so… Rich Birch — Yep. Tensley Almand — …we’re almost a hundred percent privately funded this year. Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Tensley Almand — We, we, we took our very first government grant. Rich Birch — Huh. Tensley Almand — But I mean, it’s a $250,000 grant, which is not insignificant, but on the scope of 20 million. So that kind of gives everybody an idea. So you’re talking about, uh, you know, thousands of donors who come alongside of us to partner with us, which is just amazing. Rich Birch — Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Tensley Almand — We serve about 800 men, women, and children, like I said, Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — And we have right at about 180 staff… Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — …who are who are either you know full-time equivalents basically here with us. And that’s across four different campuses. So we’re essentially like a multi-site operation. So I’m sitting here at my office today, which is basically our mission support center. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — So your accounting, HR, development team, all of your infrastructure, and we support the work that’s happening all over our city. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And then we also have three thrift stores across Northeast Georgia that’s included in that head count. Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — And so a little bit of that 20 million that I was telling you about that that revenue comes from sales as well. And so, so yeah, it’s pretty broad organization. And then what we do, a lot of people think about you know Atlanta Mission, especially here in our city, and they just think emergency shelter. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Certainly what we do. But of those 800 beds, roughly only 40% of those go towards emergency shelter. And so if you… Rich Birch — Oh, really? OK. Tensley Almand — Yeah. And so if you show up at our door and you just need safety, security, stability, um, you’re just trying to like get off the street… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …we have a program called Find Hope… Rich Birch — Yep. Tensley Almand — …and it’s a 30-day program. You can stay with us rent free 30 days. You know, bed meals, showers, really, really, really, really low expectation on those clients. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — It’s just like, hey, we’re here to meet your needs. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. Tensley Almand — The other 60% of our beds go towards what we call our transformational model… Rich Birch — Okay. Tensley Almand — …where we provide complete wraparound services. It’s about a year long program. Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — You show up and we’re going to try to help you get healthy relationally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, vocationally. We’ve got counselors, we’ve got advocates, we’ve got social workers. You have a whole team… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …that works with you, walks with you for a year… Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — …depending on really your core traumas, what’s caused your homelessness. And our main goal, our mission is to transform through Christ the lives of those who are experiencing homelessness, poverty, and addiction. Tensley Almand — And so what we want to do, what that means to us is over the course of that year, Um, we want to give you the tools to identify your traumas, understand those traumas and ultimately break the cycles so that you don’t ever have to come back to our doors again. We we tell our clients, we love you, but we don’t ever want to see you again. Like this is just like, like, how do we… Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. This was a phase of your life, hopefully, right? Tensley Almand — Yeah. Rich Birch — That’s the goal. Tensley Almand — How do we end that for you? And so our program goes through all the counseling, all the services, and it wraps up in a vocational training program we call Next Steps that… Rich Birch — Wow. That’s amazing. Tensley Almand — …that gives our clients the soft skills they need to not just get a job. Because here’s here’s what’s really cool. You you would get this. Our clients are really good at getting jobs. But like so many people out there, we’re terrible at keeping a job. Rich Birch — Right. Right. Right. Yes. Tensley Almand — Like people don’t know the skills needed to like keep a job. Like how do you manage conflict? Rich Birch — Right, right. Tensley Almand — What do you do with that boss who’s just overbearing? How do you have normal workplace conversations? Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — And so we have a ah four week training program that gives our clients those skills. And what we’re finding is that for the clients who go all the way through our program, 70% of those who graduate our program, they still have a house or a living situation a year later. Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — And they are maintaining that job a year later. Rich Birch — Wow. That’s incredible. Tensley Almand — And so it’s just been a remarkable, remarkable journey. And so we’ve got some transitional housing in there… Rich Birch — Yep. Tensley Almand — …where you graduate our program, you stay with us, we help you save up and and we help you find an apartment. And then when you’re ready financially and you’re you’re stable, we help you move into that that apartment. Tensley Almand — And what’s really cool, probably one of my favorite things is for alumni is that year after you graduate, you get a retention coach with us and they walk with you. And they just help you navigate life because, man, when you’ve stayed somewhere for a year and then you kind of come back in and you’re like, oooh, the pressures of the world are on me. That first year is so tough. Rich Birch — So hard. Yeah. Tensley Almand — Yeah. Yeah. Rich Birch — Well, that’s cool. I appreciate you sharing that. and And yeah, even church leaders that are listening in, um man, ah there whether if you’re in the Atlanta area, you definitely should reach out to Atlanta Mission. Rich Birch — But even in your neighborhood, like there are, this is why you shouldn’t be trying to invent this yourself as a church. There are these are incredibly complex issues that you know when I heard all of the the different things you’re doing to surround people, try to help them, um that’s that’s inspiring. That’s amazing. Rich Birch — Well, I’d love to pivot and talk about kind of your experience as you’ve transitioned in, like some try to extract some leadership lessons. It’s been said that one of the first things that leaders do is define reality or gain clarity for their for their organization. Rich Birch — When you first started early on in your role, what were you listening for or look for that told you, maybe there’s some areas here that just aren’t very clear? What did you see as you were, you know, we got to bring some more clarity in the organization? Were there things you kind of saw that that made you think, oh, we maybe this is some areas we need to gain some better clarity as an organization? Tensley Almand — Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, you know, every leadership transition is different. One of the advantages I had is that what my predecessor was leaving me was so much different than what he inherited. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And so he inherited an organization that was in crisis. He handed me an organization that was thriving. But, that organization really was, and he was, and it’s it’s all kind of wrapped up in our story, is that it was time for him to retire. It was time for him to move on. And so the whole organization was asking what’s next. And so that’s, that’s one advantage I had is that there was this collective, like, well, like what what is next for us? That was helpful. Tensley Almand — The other advantage I had, and I did not think this was an advantage. But, you know, I, I came out of church ministry. I didn’t know how to lead a nonprofit. I didn’t know anything about homelessness. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Tensley Almand — I didn’t know much about social services. And so, yeah I truly believe God called me into this, but I couldn’t come in like an expert. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so I literally was forced to, my I tell people my door said CEO, but I think I was really the chief question officer. I mean, my my first year… Rich Birch — Help me understand. Help me understand. Tensley Almand — …was, yeah, asking questions. I can I can vividly remember our clinical director coming into my office and saying, hey, we’ve got this massive clinical decision that we need to make and there’s this and this and this. And you know and then like trying to leave that way. What do you think we should do? And I’m like… you’re the clinical director. Like, what do what do you mean? Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — But that was again, and this is and he would say this if he was sitting here, my predecessor had an organization that was in crisis. And so every decision had to center on him. And I needed to come in and teach our team how to have a decentralized leadership. How like, hey, look you’re the clinical director I’m going to support you, I’m to remove obstacles for you. But if I have to make clinical decisions, we’re we’ve got a really big problem because I’m not qualified to make that decision. Tensley Almand — And so um really pushing leadership down… Rich Birch — yeah Tensley Almand — …asking a lot of questions, understanding what we do. And so that was that was a huge advantage that that i think a lot of people probably, they can like I did, they they think about the things that are stacked against them. To me, it’s like you don’t know anything about the space. That’s a big obstacle. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Well, maybe lean into those obstacles because it’s a really good way to to get underneath the hood. And so it forced me to ask questions, forced me to listen. And then what I did is I I truly went on a just a listening tour. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — I set up a meeting, I think, with every employee of our organization. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Tensley Almand — And I asked everybody what’s right, what’s wrong, what’s missing and what’s confusing. Rich Birch — Huh. Tensley Almand — And I still have that notebook. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — I mean, my assistant like cataloged answers for days. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And what was so cool to me was that without having the same language, almost everybody in the organization identified the same rights, wrongs, missings and confusions. And so I was able to then take that and really come back to our senior team and say, hey, what should we do about this? Like we all… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — We all agree this is a problem. like What should we do do? And I think a colleague of mine, I remember walking into his office and he had this drawing on his board. I’m like, what is what is that? He’s like, well, is how I feel about our organization. I remember it was ah it was a circle. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — And all the arrows were pointed in every direction around the circle. And he’s like, that’s us. Like, we’ve got the right idea… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …but everybody’s pulling in a hundred directions to try to figure out how to do that idea. Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — and I said, man, we need to take that circle and get all those arrows on one side. Cause if we can collectively pull… and that just kind of became our quest. And so we took all those answers and, you know, basically the the big thing was, um you know, and I don’t know where I learned this, but I feel like when there’s clarity in an organization, ‘no’ is really easy and ‘yes’ is is really difficult. It’s like really easy to say no. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And what I found at Atlanta Mission was we were just saying yes to everything. And the reason we were saying yes to everything is because there was no strategy, there was no clarity. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And so we took that first year and a half, wrote our strategic plan, identified who we want to be and why we want to be that. And then what would it look like to be that organization? And so we just kind of built it backwards. And that’s the journey we’ve been on now for the last four years since I’ve been here. Rich Birch — Wow. That’s, ah yeah, that’s incredible. I love that that feeling. In fact, i I took over a nonprofit ah kids camp and much smaller scale than what you’re running. But I remember those early days where there yeah people are looking at you and and and there is this sense of like, okay, so like you got to tell us where we’re going. What is the thing we’re doing next? Like and it’s easy to like… the easy thing is, let’s try this. Let’s try that. Let’s do a bunch of different things. And that can lead to that pulling, those hundred different, you know, it’s lots of activity, but it’s not focused. Tensley Almand — Yeah. Rich Birch — And trying to get everybody on a kind of a shared page of or shared picture of what the future looks like, man, that’s great through this, this process of kind of we’re going to do a strategic plan over a year. What, what would you, what would you say to a leader that is feeling the pressure of like, Hey, I want to define the future now, as opposed to that feels like a step back. We’re going to year and a half and define this stuff. What would you say to a leader? Why should we slow down? Talk us through why that, how that benefited now that you’re on the other side of all that. Tensley Almand — Yeah, I think the first thing I would say is it’s it’s totally worth it. I mean, it it was hard. It was challenging. It it does feel like a step back. But I don’t know how to step forward without without clarity, you know. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And that’s, you said at the beginning, I got to ah got to be one of the campus pastors at North Point Community Church for years. I can remember Andy always saying, The beauty of North Point wasn’t that we got to start with a blank page, just that we started on the same page. Rich Birch — That’s good Tensley Almand — And I just think that like that, that is always set with me. And so when I when I started here, I realized like, hey, I don’t I don’t get the luxury of a blank page. I mean, this organization has been around since 1938. You know, when I when I started Decatur City, it was so easy because I just told everybody what we were doing and why we were doing it and there was nothing else we were doing. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so it was just like… But here it’s like, OK, if I can’t get to a blank page, the best thing I can do is we’ve got to get on the same page… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …or else we’re just we’re going to spin our tires. And, and you know, I think I’ll I’ll this story probably sums it up and maybe somebody can relate to this. I have a monthly breakfast with our board chair and our vice chair. And the very first breakfast I went to in this role, it was my predecessor’s last breakfast and my first. And so we’re all so it’s him, it’s me and it’s a board chair a vice chair, all of which have been around this organization 3x the amount of time I had at that point, I had been there like three days. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Couple weeks. Tensley Almand — And and we got this email the night before the breakfast, and it was from a developer. And they were offering $14 million dollars for the piece of property that my office sits on, which is a widely underused piece of property… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …that we’ve always kind of wrestled with, like, what do we do with this thing? Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — $14 million dollars. Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — That’s almost our entire year’s budget. Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — And I remember showing up to this breakfast with this LOI and I asked the question, should we take it or should we not? Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And nobody could answer my question. Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. Tensley Almand — Nobody knew if it was a good idea to take $14 million dollars or to walk away from $14 million dollars Rich Birch — And if that group doesn’t know, nobody else in the organization is going to know, right? Tensley Almand — And that’s exactly what I said. I was like, if you don’t know, and I don’t know… Rich Birch — Yeah. Yes, exactly. Tensley Almand — …nobody knows. Rich Birch — Yes, yes, yes. Tensley Almand — And so I started with that small group and I said, hey, would you give me the freedom to to take however long it takes for us to make sure we can answer that question? Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Tensley Almand — And so in our first board meeting, I raised my hand and I just said, hey guys, I know I’m new, I know I just started. But I shared the story and I said, hey, we have to be able to answer questions like this. Or we’re never going to get anywhere. We may do a lot of good things, but we are going to have no idea if we did the best thing. Rich Birch — Right, right. That’s good. That’s good. So kind of double clicking on that, continuing to kind of focus in on this. You know, there are churches, organizations that will do the strat plan or roll. We go away for the big retreat. We come up with the new value statements. It’s got great strategy on paper. But it doesn’t end up translating into practice. What are you doing at the mission to try to make sure that we’re going from that wasn’t just a great document that’s like in a nice book somewhere, but it’s actually rolling out. Maybe give us some examples of that. And what are those kind of rhythms, cadences, all that? How how are you making that happen? Tensley Almand — Yeah, it’s wish I could really tell you we’re crushing it in this area. It’s this is a new habit for us. Rich Birch — Sure. Sure. Good. Tensley Almand — And so we’re I’m four years in. We just finished our first full fiscal year under our new strategy. And so I can tell you what we’ve learned. Rich Birch — Hey, that’s good. Yeah, good. Tensley Almand — One, once you get it built you have to start small. We, I wish I could remember the exact number, I think as a senior team we committed and told our board we were going to do 392 new initiatives or something in year one, you know. Rich Birch — Wow. Right. Tensley Almand — And this is a seven-year plan… Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — …we’re like we got almost for it and I think we got 100 through of the 392. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And we celebrated like crazy at the end of the year because it was like, that’s 100 things that were all in alignment that we’d never done before. We learned so much. So, start small. Tensley Almand — The other thing is we built our plan. And I was I was very intentional about this because of what you just said. I did not want another notebook that was going to sit on my shelf. And so our strategic plan is really a strategic roadmap. And what I have told our board, what I’ve told our staff is I want an organization that knows how to think. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And our our plan is really a roadmap for how we should think. It’s not overly prescriptive in necessarily what that means. Because it’s it’s designed to take us all the way through 2030. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Well, I have no idea what’s going to happen between now and 2030. Rich Birch — Right. Right. Tensley Almand — But I do know that if what we said we want to accomplish, we’re accomplishing, however that looks, by 2030, we’re on the right track. And so that would be the other thing is just like, I would build, I wouldn’t make it so prescriptive that it tells you like, Hey, next week you’re doing this. And the week after… It needs to teach the organization how to think, how to act so that the person who’s brand new on the front line, if I’m not in the room, they don’t need to spend any time going like what, what would Tensley want me to do? They just, this is who we are as an organization. It’s how we think. Tensley Almand — And then we at a senior level and then we pushed it all the way down to our organization. We built a meeting cadence around it. Rich Birch — Nice. Tensley Almand — And so we have our senior team meets once a week. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — That’s my six direct reports and plus my admin. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — And we, one, so we do that on Tuesday morning, one, the first Tuesday of the month is a strategy meeting. We talk all about the strategic plan. That’s like a, how how are you doing and your department doing towards what you said you were gonna do? Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And we have a dashboard to measure that against. And then the next Tuesday is an operations meeting. And it’s just like, hey, what are what are we working on? We can’t live at 50,000 feet all the time. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Let’s get down to 1,000 feet or whatever it is. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — And so we have that operations cadence. And then the third meeting is kind of like a catch-all, like, hey, what you know what needs to happen? And then our last meeting of the month is a monthly ministry review with the entire, not just my direct reports, but all the managers that sit under my direct reports. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s cool. Tensley Almand — And they lead that meeting. I listen in that meeting. And I get to hear what’s happening at every campus, what’s going on. And I get to hear how people are implementing or not implementing the strategy. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And then the very next meeting, if you’re keeping up, is then our strategy meeting. Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — So then I’m like, hey… Rich Birch — Here’s some stuff I heard. Tensley Almand — …tell me more about this. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Tensley Almand — Or I didn’t hear like, Hey, I thought we were working on this. Why is that not happening? And so we have dashboards. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Tensley Almand — We’ve never had those before. We have data that we can follow. We have metrics we’ve identified as a, as a team, our wins. And so it’s like, Hey, how are we tracking towards those wins and just have created a layer of accountability that didn’t exist probably three years ago. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Let’s talk a little bit more about the data thing. I’ve, or data thing. We, I’ve, I’ve said with younger leaders, you know, spreadsheets are the language of leadership. Like you’re going to have to get used to this stuff. This is just… Tensley Almand — Yep. Rich Birch — …this is how we care for people at scale is, is that is what it looks like. So data can either inspire or intimidate. How do you track outcomes? How do you, how do you how have you seen, you know, data over this last year actually change behavior and move things, improve care, better outcomes, all that kind of stuff. Talk us through what, cause you know, what we measure can get, can, you know, steer us in the wrong direction or steer us in the right direction. Help, help us think through that. As we’re thinking about what numbers should we pay attention to? Tensley Almand — Yeah. So again, when I started, that was a big question I had. So if you were to look at our numbers, you would see that we serve, you know, let’s, these are rough, but right at about 3000 people a year come through our doors. Rich Birch — Okay. Tensley Almand — Right. Which is huge. Rich Birch — Yep. Tensley Almand — You’re like, man, that’s amazing. Well, then I, as I walk you through that, by the time you get to the end of our vocational training a year later, we may graduate like 400. And then 70% of those 400 are still doing well the the next year. And so, you know, on paper, you’re like, man, is that good? Rich Birch — Right. Yes. Tensley Almand — Like that, that there’s a lot of attrition there. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — Like should, is, is, are we fail… And that was, again, when I started, that was a question nobody could answer for me is, Hey, is that good? Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so even backing up before we built our strategy, our senior team spent so much time defining our outcomes. And we had all of these statements, you know, but it was like we want somebody to be healthy vocationally. Tensley Almand — It’s like, okay, what does that mean? Crickets in the room. Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — Wait, if you don’t know what it means and I don’t know what it means, does the person who’s leading that program know what it means? Better question: does the person who’s receiving our services know if they’ve actually achieved help in that area? Tensley Almand — And so we went through, defined all of those terms so that there was a clear outcome to it… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …so that we could then measure it. And then we built both a one-page dashboard that our senior team could look at at a high level. So I could I can open this dashboard on any Monday morning. It’s just in Tableau, so nothing super you know exciting. Rich Birch — Yep. Yep. Tensley Almand — And I can just see, i can see progression through our program. I can see healthy exits. We’ve defined what are healthy exits. I can see, ah you know, are people getting stuck? That was a big thing we were we were learning is like, people are just getting stuck in our program and we’re committing to somebody. You’re going to be at this phase of the program 30 days. Well, then they spend 60 days. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And what we were finding. We were, so this, this probably long winded way of saying this, but what we, we didn’t know what was happening or why it was happening and it felt good. But you know, you’re like, I don’t know. Tensley Almand — And so what we were finding is it’s like, Hey, so that’s an example. Like, somebody gets stuck in our program. We promised them 30. It takes 60. All of a sudden, we were able to track that, hey, there’s a certain amount of fallout rate at this stage of the program. Why is that happening? Oh, people are stuck. They’ve been here too long. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — We got to fix that. And so it it enabled us to know what needed to be fixed and and not fixed. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Tensley Almand — And probably the the best real-time example of that is just recently. So I keep telling you the 70% number of graduates are successful. That’s kind of our historical data. Rich Birch — Yep. Yep. Tensley Almand — Well, this year, that number fell for the first time ever. It’s gotten better every year. Rich Birch — Wow. Tensley Almand — This year it fell and it fell like dramatically. And this is one of those I don’t like to talk about it because it doesn’t look good. Rich Birch — Interesting. Yes. Tensley Almand — I mean, like it fell down to almost like 45, 50 percent. Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Tensley Almand — You’re like, what’s happening? Rich Birch — Almost inverse. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Tensley Almand — Exactly. And so at first, you’re like, our program is no good. We got rewrite our program. Well, thankfully, we had been tracking all of the kind of whys and we understood what was happening in people’s lives. And what we have found out is no, like the economy shifted. You can’t get a job in 30 to 60 days anymore. Rich Birch — Interesting. Tensley Almand — And so a gate in our program is when you graduate, you have 60 days to get a job. If you don’t get a job, you can’t move into our transitional housing because if we just allow you to stay, beds back up and then more people can’t get in. Tensley Almand — Well, our clients then would stop taking our advice and stop waiting for a good job. And at day like 50, they would just go get that job that doesn’t pay well. Rich Birch — Ohhh. Tensley Almand — And they knew it wasn’t going to be a career builder job. It was just going to keep them sheltered. Rich Birch — Right, right. Tensley Almand — And so it was our our like metrics were actually driving a behavior we didn’t like. Rich Birch — That’s interesting. Tensley Almand — And so we’re in the process now of like, hey, we’ve got to change this. The length of time it takes to get a job now takes longer. and Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — The job market’s more you know fierce right now. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so we don’t want nothing against these types of jobs. We don’t necessarily want our client leaving to go get a job at McDonald’s Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — But for them, leaving it to go get a job at McDonald’s versus not having a place to stay, I’ll take the McDonald’s job… Rich Birch — Right. Yes. Tensley Almand — …even though I know I’m only going to be there three months. Rich Birch — Right. Right. Tensley Almand — And so it was throwing off all of our numbers and it’s because we were incorrectly driving a behavior that we don’t want to drive. So. Rich Birch — Wow. That’s cool. That’s a great, very vivid example. And there’s lots of that in the church world. I know you I know you know that. There was a church I was doing some work with last year, large church, 10,000-person church. And they were we were talking one of the numbers I obsess with my clients over is documented first-time guests, the actual number of people that come every single weekend. And I was convinced that this church was just was missing a whole bunch of first time guests. And so they were telling me about how great their, their, their assimilation numbers were. They were like, Oh, this is so great. And I was like, I just don’t believe it. I’m like, because, because if you are not capturing the number of, of documented first time guests, then yeah and you’re comparing against half of what you probably actually have coming into your church, then then every number be below that, all your integration stuff looks twice as good as it actually is. Tensley Almand — Yeah. Rich Birch — And you know that that happens in lots of places across our numbers. We’ve got to get real clear and benchmark against other people. Tensley Almand — If I could go back and if I could go back, no, no, it’s just, like I’ve often thought like, what would I do different if I was a church leader now? Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s a good question. Tensley Almand — And I would I would measure so much differently. Rich Birch — Yeah, interesting. Tensley Almand — You know, historically we’ve measured nickels and noses, right? Like how much money’s coming in and how many people are sitting in the pews. But it’s like, those are important. Rich Birch — Yeah. Tensley Almand — I wouldn’t stop measuring them, but I would pay attention to like this. I would try to find a way to measure progression, you know. Rich Birch — Yes, 100%. Tensley Almand — It’s like to your point how many first-time guests are you having okay well then of those first-time guests how many of them are actually moving to your small groups. Rich Birch — Yeah, 100%. Tensley Almand — Of those who moved your small groups do any of them ever volunteer like and and really understand the behaviors you want. And then measure to those behaviors and i think especially in a world where just church attendance looks so much so much different, we could gauge health of our churches so much more effectively if we were Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so true. I’d love to I’d love to kind of pivot for a few minutes in a slightly different direction. Tensley Almand — Okay. Rich Birch — So we have a lot of church leaders that are listening in and I’d love to understand how Atlanta Mission partners with churches. What does that look like? How do you work together? So specifically at Atlanta misha, and then what would you, Mission, and then what would you say to churches in general? Hey, um what advice would you give now that you’re on this side of the equation of actually partnering with an organization like Atlanta Mission? How can you be kind of the best partner? How do we what are what are people on your side of the table actually looking for from a church like ours? Because I’m sure there’s all kinds of stories of like, yeah, that didn’t work well. Talk us through what that looks like, partnerships specifically, and then kind of in general, how can we be better at that? Tensley Almand — Yeah, and partnership is one of our pillars of our strategic plan. I think I think for nonprofits, especially when you’re large and you’re self-funded, you can it’s easy to get siloed. And we we fell into that category, not just with outside partners that wanted to come in and help us, but also with other service providers across the the, you know, continuum of care in our city. is It’s just it’s easy to kind of put your head down and do your own thing. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And so this is a huge emphasis for us, mainly because it’s really woven into the vision of our organization. Our organization is a community that’s united to end homelessness one person at a time. Well, I mean, it’s like partnership has to be built into that. Rich Birch — Right. Yes, baked into it. Yeah. Tensley Almand — So what who are we to then go get siloed? Like, that’s like, wow, you can’t even accomplish what you said you wanted to do. And so um we… I’ll back into this answer by telling you one of the things we’ve discovered at Atlanta Mission is that this isn’t this, you know, this isn’t novel, but, you know, material poverty, we all know is debilitating. Relational poverty is just as debilitating as material poverty. Rich Birch — That’s so true. Tensley Almand — And what we find with our clients is that almost 100 percent obviously are struggling with some version of material poverty, but they are just relationally broken and poor. They are void of healthy relationships. And so this is this is so much where partnership comes in, because we we literally have a metric that we track of how many healthy contacts does a client have in their phone before they graduate our program. And what we were finding is I mean we were their only healthy contact. Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Tensley Almand — And it’s wait this is this is not good. And this is such a great place for churches to partner with us because we have so many opportunities that we just call we call them “be with” opportunities there’s like there’s “do for” service projects but there’s also “be with” service projects. And they’re just designed for you to establish healthy community with our clients, build relationships, throw a birthday party for somebody… Rich Birch — That’s so good. Right. Tensley Almand — …have a Christmas party at one of our shelters. Come, you know, we’re moving into the holiday season, you know, come and build gingerbread houses together with our kids who are staying with us and just create an hour in somebody’s life that’s normal. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — And I feel like churches are better at this than anybody. Our corporate partners are fantastic at the “do for” projects. They can then come in and beautify our campuses in 30 minutes in a way that none of us can. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — You know, Home Depot comes in and it’s like, we’re going to transform your landscape. Great. This is awesome. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Tensley Almand — I love it. But a church can come in and just be authentic and be real and be with our clients. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — And you would be amazed at how different somebody’s life looks after just that hour. And so, and I think that’s a huge thing. And then what I would tell churches, I think even as a church leader, I I probably overlooked how vital we were to nonprofits. You just you know, you think it’s an hour, but you know, even the day of, you know, you wake up that morning and you’re like, they don’t really need me. Like, I don’t know. Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — This is, am I not really going to make a difference? Yes, you are. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — You are going to make a huge difference. It is worth the hour. It is worth the drive. Tensley Almand — And we we tell people all the time, and I’ve seen this in my own life. The thing that happens at Atlanta Mission is there’s always two stories of transformation happening. There’s the story of transformation that’s happening in a client’s life. But God transforms my life every day. Rich Birch — That’s so true. Tensley Almand — And it’s that’s the part I didn’t expect, Rich, is that… Rich Birch — Right. Tensley Almand — …my life is being changed as much as anybody else’s. And so I would, I would tell a church, Hey, our clients need you. But you need this as well. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Tensley Almand — Like God’s going to do something in your life. Tensley Almand — And then the other is just, um I think, especially for really big churches, it’s easy to think like, I bet they need my expertise. It’s like, actually, that’s not like. We need your partnership. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Tensley Almand — You know, we, we know how to do this. Come put wind in our sails. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, Tensley Almand — Come just serve, be a part of what we’re doing. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. That’s super helpful. Love love that. Well, just as we’re coming to land, any kind of final words or encouragement you’d you’d say to church leaders that are listening in today that are, you know, wrestling with maybe clarity or wrestling with some of the stuff we’ve talked about today? This has been a really fruitful conversation. Thank you for it. Tensley Almand — Yeah, I think the, you know, probably the biggest thing I would say, and I have to tell myself this all the time. I mean, I’m an entrepreneurial type A. I’m going to like, you know, go conquer the world in a day is that, you know, remind yourself, you know, more than likely what you can accomplish in 90 days is nowhere near what you think it is, you know. But what you can accomplish in a year or two years is probably way more than you ever imagined you could. Rich Birch — Right. So true Yeah, that’s good. Tensley Almand — And so just again, kind of back to the strategy thing, it takes time. It’s messy. You know, you’re going to feel like, is this worth it? It creates conflict on your team. It feels uncomfortable. We were, we were joking as a senior team the other day. There was, it was about a year where I just, every Tuesday morning, I thought I want to cancel this meeting because I just didn’t enjoy, like we were just, we were at conflict because we were… Rich Birch — Right. Yes. Tensley Almand — …hashing out who we are and why we exist and what are we going to do and why are we going to do it? Rich Birch — Yes. Tensley Almand — But now it’s my favorite hour of the week. Like, I just love it. And so, you know, I would say that… Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — …you know, and I think, yeah, I don’t know that I have anything, you know, much more. Rich Birch — That’s good. Tensley Almand — Yeah. Rich Birch — No, that’s good. Well, I really appreciate being on the show today. Where do we want to send people if they want to connect with you or with Atlanta Mission? Where are the best places for us to send people online? Tensley Almand — Probably the easiest place is just our website, atlantamission.org. You can find everything you want to about us. If you want to know more, you can email info@atlantamission.org. And that actually goes right to my assistant and we’ll get you connected to the right person. And you can, you know, next time you’re in town, you partner with us. You can help us. You can be happy to give you a tour, show you what we do. Rich Birch — That’s great. Thanks so much, Tensley. Appreciate you being here today. Tensley Almand — Thanks.

John and Roman discuss and recap the Week 7 St. Louis area games of the week.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/gateway-sports-venue-show--3605575/support.

In this episode of Leaders in Living Rooms, Sean Morgan sits down with Joel Thomas, Lead Pastor at Buckhead Church and senior leader at North Point Ministries. Joel shares his unique journey into ministry, lessons from his time at North Point and Mission Community Church, and the leadership insights he's gained along the way. From the power of investing in young leaders, to discerning between turnaround and realignment, to navigating succession in a large church context, Joel offers wisdom for leaders at every stage. Welcome to Episode 141 of the Leaders in Living Rooms Podcast with Sean Morgan.

We are bringing back one of my fav guests for a repeat convo :) Sandra Stanley is a wife, mother, author, and the co founder of Northpoint Ministries (where MY church Buckhead Church is based out of!).In this episode we talk all things:Raising kids to develop their own faithBeing a model of faith for your childrenMaintaining a personal relationship with God when ministry is your job I pray this blesses you friend!

Today, we are joined by Clay Scroggins.Clay is the author of the best-selling books How to Lead When You're Not in Charge, How to Lead in a World of Distraction, and The Aspiring Leader's Guide to the Future. He holds a degree in Industrial Engineering from Georgia Tech as well as a Master's degree and Doctorate with an emphasis in Online Church from Dallas Theological Seminary. For almost 20 years, Clay Scroggins served in many pastoral roles at North Point Ministries, a multisite church started in Alpharetta, Georgia led by Andy Stanley. Most recently, Clay served as the lead pastor of Buckhead Church, one of North Point's largest campuses. Clay is a sought after speaker (that's what he tells his parents) having worked with organizations ranging from the Dallas Cowboys or the staff at the White House all the way to Taco Bell or the Alabama Association of Tax Assessors. Clay lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife, Jenny, and their five children.In this second part of our conversation, we dive deeper into how positivity becomes a leadership superpower in today's overwhelmed workplace, the crucial difference between thinking critically and being critical, and practical strategies for rejecting passivity.Key topics include:How to shift from negativity and cynicism to ownership and hope in the workplaceThe difference between thinking critically and being critical, and how to stay solution-orientedWhy scheduling time to think is essential for leadersThe CPR method for rejecting passivity and taking meaningful actionHow to challenge up effectively without threatening your leadership, illustrated through the Chick-fil-A innovation storyWhy developing influence before authority makes you a better leaderClay's practical insights will help you lead effectively from wherever you stand in the organization.Clay's E-mail: clay.scroggins@gmail.com Clay's Website: https://www.clayscroggins.com/Clay's Book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Lead-When-Youre-Charge/dp/0310536960/ -Website and live online programs: http://ims-online.com Blog: https://blog.ims-online.com/ Podcast: https://ims-online.com/podcasts/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesgood/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesgood99 Chapters:(00:00) Introduction(01:10) Tool: Developing Positivity as a Leadership Superpower(03:55) Technique: Understanding How Your Energy Affects Others(06:15) Tip: Choosing to Be a Voice for Good in Challenging Times(08:25) Tool: Thinking Critically Without Being Critical(10:50) Technique: Using the LB-NT Method for Constructive Feedback(11:35) Tip: Creating Space to Think in an Execute-Heavy Culture(14:00) Tool: Recognizing When Your Best Ideas Come and Why(16:15) Technique: The CPR Method for Rejecting Passivity(18:45) Tip: Using the Magic Wand Question to Combat Passivity(21:25) Tool: Challenging Up Through the Chick-fil-A Innovation Story(25:25) Technique: The "As Now, So Then" Mindset for Leadership Development(27:35) Tip: Cultivating Influence Before Authority for Better Leadership(28:40) Conclusion#CharlesGood #ClayScroggins #TheGoodLeadershipPodcast #LeadWithoutAuthority #InfluentialLeadership #PositiveLeadership #CriticalThinking #RejectingPassivity #ChallengingUp #LeadershipInfluence #WorkplacePositivity #LeadershipMindset #PersonalLeadership #AuthenticLeadership #LeadershipWithoutTitle #OrganizationalLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #InfluenceOverAuthority #EmergingLeaders #LeadershipGrowth

Today, we are joined by Clay Scroggins.Clay is the author of the best-selling books How to Lead When You're Not in Charge, How to Lead in a World of Distraction, and The Aspiring Leader's Guide to the Future. He holds a degree in Industrial Engineering from Georgia Tech as well as a Master's degree and Doctorate with an emphasis in Online Church from Dallas Theological Seminary. For almost 20 years, Clay Scroggins served in many pastoral roles at North Point Ministries, a multisite church started in Alpharetta, Georgia led by Andy Stanley. Most recently, Clay served as the lead pastor of Buckhead Church, one of North Point's largest campuses. Clay is a sought after speaker (that's what he tells his parents) having worked with organizations ranging from the Dallas Cowboys or the staff at the White House all the way to Taco Bell or the Alabama Association of Tax Assessors. Clay lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife, Jenny, and their five children.In this episode, we explore the revolutionary concept that leadership and authority aren't a package deal. Clay dismantles the myth that you must wait for a title or position to begin leading, instead revealing how waiting for empowerment actually trains passivity and undermines your potential. Key topics include:Why leadership and authority are not a package deal and how this myth limits potentialThe danger of waiting to be empowered and how it trains passivity in leadersWhy influence is more powerful than authority in the long run for effective leadershipThe importance of self-leadership as the foundation for influencing othersLearn from Clay Scroggins how to cultivate influence from wherever you sit in an organization. Clay Scroggins's website: https://www.clayscroggins.com/Clay Scroggins's Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B01MXJ1O3Y -Website and live online programs: http://ims-online.comBlog: https://blog.ims-online.com/Podcast: https://ims-online.com/podcasts/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesgood/Twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesgood99Chapters:(00:00) Introduction(01:00) Tool: Understanding Why Leadership and Authority Aren't a Package Deal(03:30) Tip: The Danger of Waiting to Be Empowered(05:30) Technique: Cultivating Influence Over Authority for Long-Term Success(08:40) Tool: Building Stable Leadership Identity Through the Five P's(14:30) Tip: Understanding Purpose as the Foundation of Effective Leadership(15:00) Technique: Distinguishing Between Kibosh and Kavash Leadership Styles(18:00) Tool: The Importance of Self-Leadership Before Leading Others(20:05) Tip: Monitoring Your Heart and Behavior for Self-Awareness(23:00) Technique: Supporting Your Leader to Build Moral Authority(24:33) Conclusion #CharlesGood #ClayScroggins #TheGoodLeadershipPodcast #LeadWithoutAuthority #InfluentialLeadership #SelfLeadership #LeadershipIdentity #EmergingLeaders #LeadershipDevelopment #InfluenceOverAuthority #LeadershipMindset #PersonalLeadership #AuthenticLeadership #LeadershipWithoutTitle #OrganizationalLeadership #FollowershipSkills #LeadershipGrowth #PurposeDrivenLeadership #SelfAwareness #LeadershipInfluence

Josh Klein teams up with  @CalibrateConversations  to analyze a recent youth leader training video that was leaked to the public from North Point church (Andy Stanley's Church). Josh and Brady analyze the training from the good to the bad to the horrific and everything in between. Support the ministry: freethinkingministries.com/donate Josh's article on Andy Stanley: https://freethinkingministries.com/the-curious-case-of-andy-stanley/

In this episode, Brady teams up with Josh Klein from  @FreethinkingMinistries to respond to a leaked LGBTQ+ youth leader training video from North Point Community Church — led by the influential Andy Stanley.We break down the language, theology, and cultural shifts revealed in the training and offer a biblical response rooted in truth and love. This is a critical conversation for anyone involved in youth ministry, Christian parenting, or church leadership.⏱️ Timestamps00:00 Intro02:05 Why this conversation matters10:59 Overview of North Point's LGBTQ+ training29:30 Discipleship vs. affirmation42:48 Gender dysphoria and youth identity52:29 Puberty blockers and medical harm1:05:15 The tragic consequences of “loving affirmation”1:15:01 What churches must do moving forward

Today in Current Events from a Christian Perspective:Apparently, Andy Stanley's church, Northpoint has a message for middle schoolers and small group leaders - use preferred pronouns and make sure you walk along with their gender transition. Is this for real?Meanwhile, Trump's spiritual advisor, Paula White wants you to have 7 spiritual blessings for Easter, all for the low, low price of $1000. Yikes.Oh and the newest remake of the Narnia series will have Aslan, the lion, aka Jesus Christ, portrayed by Meryl Streep. All this and more today on ChurchPublic..---At Church Public we create compelling content to equip you to follow Jesus and engage in the public square including Current Events from a Christian Perspective.Thanks for watching! Thanks for listening!Support the Channel on Substackhttps://substack.com/@churchpublicListen on Apple Podcastshttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-public/id1520119356Listen on Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/show/3cWx1g4WfSOVs8MX05cSvH?si=8ajf5wFVSjakXiYS7HkmhgListen on GooglePodcastshttps://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMTc2MjU0LnJzcw?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwiI_4eugrbwAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAgFind Me:www.churchpublic.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChurchPublic/Twitter: https://twitter.com/churchpublicInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/churchpublic/Support:on PAYPALwww.churchpublic.com/supportToday is a great day to start your own podcast. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it would be fun to have your own talk show...podcasting is an easy, inexpensive, and fun way to expand your reach online.Following the link in the show notes let's Buzzsprout know we sent you, gets you a $20 Amazon gift card if you sign up for a paid plan, and helps support our show.https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1132064Support the show

The website and X account protestia.com got ahold of a training video from Andy Stanley's hugely influential North Point Church on how middle school leaders should respond to trans-identifying kids and their families. The video features Britt Kitchen, the middle school ministry director at North Point, effectively encouraging leaders to affirm trans identities (I say effectively because he doesn't explicitly say that, but it's the implication of all he's presenting). In this episode, I play and respond to 6 brief clips from the video. It's a tragic case study of how unbiblical ideas are being pushed from within the church.Watch the original 6-minute video the clips are pulled from here: https://x.com/Protestia/status/1905574394732118425

Keith Weinhold and Caeli Ridge discuss the benefits of a type of loan that combines mortgage and banking features. This loan allows deposits to reduce principal first, every deposit acts like a payment, minimizing interest accrual. And can be used for cash-out refinancing, providing flexibility and potential tax benefits.  Hear about the importance and the difference between open-ended and closed-ended loans. If you pay down the loan balance over time, you can have a spread that allows you to access that equity without having to requalify or pay additional closing costs. Resources: Explore the loan simulator at RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/542 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching:GREmarketplace.com/Coach Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold a discussion about the future mortgage rate direction. Then there's a property loan type where you don't have to make any monthly payments, and if you do make a payment, it all goes toward principal, and nothing is lost to interest. It can save you lots in interest expense over the life of the loan today on get rich education.   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:13   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:29   Welcome to GRE from flaccid County, Oregon to Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are back in for another wealth building week here at get rich education, just another shaved mammal with the microphone here, I have a real estate analogy for you. Growing up, my dad told me, whatever you do, do it well. And that was broad guidance for life. I like things that are easy to remember. Our simple home in Appalachian Pennsylvania was headed with a wood fired stove, so we couldn't just turn a dial and feeding the stove with those logs took time and work. It was a family effort. Dad split the firewood. My chore was to regularly move firewood from the wood pile into the home, and then Mom or Dad would start the fire and constantly tend to it and get it up to the right temperature. But you know, when that fire finally roared, it felt like it could have heated five homes. And this is like buying an income producing rental property. You can't just point and click to make income reliably appear. It takes time, and even some of this admin type of work before you feel hot returned the spark that can ignite the fire means first putting your financial house in order. Those are things like getting pre approved for a mortgage loan, and then they're stacking the firewood, which means finding a deal, making an offer, booking a property inspection, scheduling an appraisal, perhaps signing a property management agreement if you're not self managing, and then, of course, placing a tenant. But see when that investment property fire roars after a year or two that can create enough returns for five retail investors, just like our roaring wood fire could have heated five homes, even though you're only one investor getting like 5x returns, and by now, you probably felt, after a year or two of owning it, the profitable warmth of the five ways you're paid that you know so well. Those five ways are leverage, appreciation, cash flow. Tenant made principal pay down a tax benefit basket and the quiet, whispering fire of inflation, profiting on your loan, but you can't get over leveraged, meaning that you can't make the payments, or else you burn the whole house down. This means embracing the right level of debt rather than avoiding debt altogether. So yeah, you know, if you want to be in the top 1% or maybe even top 5% Do you know what that means? It means being misunderstood by the masses. And when you do this right, it's not about getting rich quick, but it's about building wealth. For sure, feel the fire and whatever you do, do it well, just like my dad told me, and oh, by the way, today, my parents still live in that same. House, but they now just turn a dial for heat.    Well, you know, there's been a lot of real estate and financial news lately, just this constant feed of news. And I really need to tell you something about that. I am not a news reporter. If some news just broke an hour ago. A lot of times people are only overreacting to something like that. So here at GRE I infuse the news longer term into our content of the show, because some of it is just too big to ignore. But often let it settle down for a little while and filter out what it really means to you as an investor. I mean, being an educational platform rather than a news platform is what it's about. So I want to make sure you understand the relationships rather than just reporting the news. I mean, for example, what tariffs can do to home prices and rents and inflation. I mean, that really impacts you and your real estate long term. Rather than just doing something like reporting that the tariff on this nation that looked like it was going to be 25% is now only going to be 10% or something like that, that really doesn't affect you so much. So now that you know more about what to expect here, which are the stories that really affect you as an investor? The last inflation report did come in at a hot 3% that startled economists that it was that high. And what that does is that makes bond yields rise, because bond investors need a real return net of inflation, and in turn, that soon makes mortgage rates rise, and also it makes Jerome Powell be in no rush to cut his Fed funds rate after this hot inflation report, either. And here's another long term relationship that can help you learn the Fed's dual mandate is, what do you know? What it is, the two things I've mentioned it to you before, the Fed's dual mandate is maximum employment and stable prices. That right there is inherently volatile, because when employment is maximized, well then employers, they have to compete with higher wages in order to attract workers, and that makes prices go up, destabilizing the prices will stable. Prices is the second part of the dual mandate. So that's why it always seems like there's this lightning rod attention on Jay Powell in the Fed. It is because the dual mandate is inherently volatile. Now, you know what I think about predicting mortgage rates. I don't like to do it because it's an almost impossible task, like the myth of Sisyphus, that Greek myth about rolling a boulder up a hill wells, Fargo says mortgage rates will go down to just six and a half percent by the end of this year, so not much of a drop. And also by the end of next year, almost two years from now, they'll still be just six and a half percent. And other C rates rising from here. So there is broad consensus that there's zero reason to think that artificially low rates are going to return anytime in the near term, perhaps even in the intermediate term, coming up on a future episode of the show here and soon, how to use AI in real estate investing today, let's talk about mortgages and a special loan type.   Today, we are back with the national leader in providing Americans with income property loans. She runs the operation at Ridge lending group. She's been doing this 25 years she's an investor herself. It is their CEO and president, Caeli Ridge,   Caeli Ridge  9:06   Keith, thank you for having me.    Keith Weinhold  9:08   There does seem to be one US president. That makes a lot of news lately, but Caeli is still the most noteworthy mortgage type of President, I suppose. And just like GRE Ridge focuses on education and Caeli mortgage rates. It's the topic that everyone wants to talk about. I don't predict mortgage rates, but I know that you'll Talk That Talk a little. And previously, many expected Jerome Powell and the Fed to drop the rate four times this year, then two and now more and more expect zero rate cuts at all this year, even opening the door for rate increases if inflation persists. So tell us about the propensities of this year's mortgage rate direction.    Caeli Ridge  9:51   I think that I agree with a lot of the volume out there related to interest rates kind of stay in the course. I don't think we're going to see too much of a decline. There's. Certainly, Keith, we talk about this at nauseum. There's all kinds of things that could derail that statement that we can't prepare for, we couldn't predict for, but I think overall rates are going to stay steady. I think that whether you like them or you don't like them, the tariffs tend to come with an inflationary tone. And if that's the case, it's going to put Jerome and his buddies at the Fed in a tough position to do what they had hoped to do with the easing, the monetary easing. So I don't expect to see it, but I'm hopeful who knows. Who knows?    Keith Weinhold  10:29   Now, for you, the listener and viewer here, when you really want to know what moves rates around, Caeli talk to us about this persistently high spread, and what that means is that historic difference between mortgage rates and the yield on the 10 year treasury note.    Caeli Ridge  10:47   I feel like a lot of what that's going to attach itself to is the inflation, and then, more specifically, when we talk about llpas, and I think we've talked about this in the past, loan level price adjustments, mortgage backed securities secondary market, right? This is an investment that is bought and sold on the New York Stock Exchange, right? These are investments that carry value. And while the Treasury is usually the one that people will look at to predict where interest rates are going to go, I feel like in this higher rate environment, the secondary market understands that these mortgage backed securities are going to be paying off in advance of profitability. Now this gets a little bit complicated, but the easy way to explain it is is that if you secure a loan today at, say, seven and a half percent, if the anticipation is that interest rates over the next three years, maybe not in the next year, but two years, even three years, are going to decline. The mortgage that was closed today will likely pay off via a refinance. In that event, it's not reached the maturity date, such that when that initial mortgage backed security was purchased on the secondary market, it will have to pay off before the investor has been made whole or profitable. As a result, the margins it's called on in my world, it's called YSP, yield spread premium will not be met. So they're baking in certain levers, or they're hedging, as another way to say it, so that they're not left with those negative balances when these things do pay off when interest rates come down, because interest rates are not a straight line, they go up, they go down, they go east, they go west. So as a result, they're planning far in advance into the future. So I think that has a lot to do with it.    Keith Weinhold  12:33   Real Estate industries are shrinking, and it's all related to the fact that back in 2021 the number of existing homes sold peaked at almost 7 million, but last year, it was only about 4 million. That is a huge drawdown. The number of US Realtors is dropping since it peaked in 2023 and Caeli, from what I can see, the number of loan officers, even operating has dropped precipitously over the last four years, it's a reminder that the strong survive and in the mortgage industry, top service is what savvy borrowers need. You go with the people that consistently advise you to take your time and look at your long term strategy and make the correct decision, not always the one giving like 1/8 of a percent lower and an interest rate, so any lender can get you the next loan, and few are going to help you with your long term strategy. With this overall lower volume of transactions taking place, what are your thoughts about how it's impacted the mortgage and lending industries?    Caeli Ridge  13:37   It's such a good question. I'm glad that you asked it, and I really do think it speaks to the experts in the space consumers, our borrowers, as we call them, have to be, I believe, a little bit more discerning about who they want to align themselves with and who they want to work with as it relates to the interest rate. We've had this conversation off book. Ridge doesn't sell rate or cost. Now we're competitive, but we're never going to be the lowest possible lender out there. There's always going to be somebody that can undercut for an eighth, like you said, a quarter point, a few 100 bucks here and there. And we just don't get into that, our value adds far exceed an eighth of a point in rate, which, by the way, you probably can predict what I'm going to say next, if you're not doing the math, just as a sidebar listener, the difference in payment, and that's really where the focus should be. The difference in payment on an eighth or a quarter percent in interest rate on $100,000 is all of 5,7,8, bucks a month. Okay, so make sure you're doing the math, but the value adds that come with the education that we provide the 49 states, large footprint and the diversity of loan product, I think, far outweigh any eighth or few $100 difference when you're comparing side by side. I'm not saying that you don't want to get comparisons and you don't want to be a smart, informed consumer, but it really does matter that your lender understands known, owner occupied understands how to. Or take you from point A to point Z today and five and 10 years down the road.   Keith Weinhold  15:05   you've been a mortgage industry leader for a long time with this lower volume. Have you seen mortgage companies implode close shop?   Caeli Ridge  15:15   Absolutely, we have access to those data points and the number of loan officers just the individual in the doing the transaction, not including processors and underwriters and funders and doctors, but just the loan officers. I believe, in 2024 reduced by a margin of 53% gosh, yeah, that's a big number.   Keith Weinhold  15:35   Yes, this is really hit the industry substantially. Are there any other interesting industry trends in this environment where we have persistently higher rates, I make sure not to say high, because historically, mortgage rates are still not high. The long term average being seven and three quarter percent on the 30 year fixed rate mortgage Are there any other trends that this loss in activity has created?   Caeli Ridge  15:58   I feel like the informed investor is still finding ways to profit in real estate. They're finding diversity is key, which I'm a big proponent of as are you. That means single family residence to two to four units, cash flow versus appreciation, the short term rental, the long term rental, the midterm rental, making sure that they have a good, rounded portfolio is key. And there are some which I think we're going to be talking about today. There are some mortgage tools that I really feel like, for an informed investor, are allowing them to continue and propel further, even scale into the 25 and 26 years.   Keith Weinhold  16:36   What's happened to the volume of owner occupied transactions versus investor transactions. I would imagine that investor mortgage transactions really aren't down that much.   Caeli Ridge  16:47   not that much. I'd say there was a small blip, but I feel like we've made those up with some of the burr strategy loans we do, of course, all kinds of mortgage related transactions specifically for investors. And one of those products is a short term bridge loan, which would apply to the BRRRR method by rehab, rent and refinance. So we've been seeing quite a bit of that, where the investor will find a good deal on market or off market, where they can put a little bit of lipstick on it and then refinance it at the ARV or after repair value. So anything that we might have lost in just a traditional 30 year fixed straight purchase transactions, I feel like we made up in the other but it wasn't a big margin.   Keith Weinhold  17:26   What if there was a mortgage product out there that just didn't work like other mortgage loan products do? For example, your deposits or the payments that you make on this special type of mortgage is applied to the principal first and only. There are a lot of other interesting characteristics about this particular mortgage product. We're going to discuss that when we come back. You're listening to get rich education. We've got the CEO and President of ridge lending group back with us, an investor centric lender. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold.   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lock ups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text FAMILY to66866, to learn about freedom, family investments, liquidity fund, again. Text FAMILY to 66866   hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation, because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. You can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind @ridgelendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com   Rick Sharga  19:48   this is Rich charga, housing market intelligence analyst. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:06   Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with a steady guest over time, because not only are they an income property centric mortgage loan company that do mortgage loans in 49 of the 50 states, but they're also centered on education and looking out for you, the investor, over the long term. And cheyley, such an interesting product that you offer is called the all in one loan. It's been a long time since you and I have really talked about this. What it is is a first lien HELOC. It's a way for you to use the equity in your existing properties. You can do it with either a primary residence or investment properties. There are just so many reasons why an all in one load just kicks the butt on a conventionally amortizing loan, including that all payments are applied to principal first and only, and a lot of other exciting things. So Caeli, why don't we back up and just describe what the all in one loan is big picture.   Caeli Ridge  21:05   Now there is a lot to unpack, so we're going to take our time. Listener. First of all, let me just explain. Why is it called the all in one it's called that because it doubles as both a mortgage in the form of an open ended revolving HELOC and checking and savings. Both of those two features are combined, hence the all in one as a way of diminishing the amount of interest that can accrue over time. Let me explain so any revolving account, any account, including a credit card, for example, but first lien HELOC, second lien HELOC, whichever doesn't matter, open ended revolving is the key. Any open ended, revolving account will accrue interest daily based on two factors, the first being that day's balance and that months, in this case, interest rate, fully indexed interest rate. I'll come to interest rate later. As a result, you now have control largely over how much interest can accrue. Now let's take that statement and transfer it and look at it against an amortized, closed ended mortgage. You sign up for a 30 year fixed mortgage today. Let's say it's 7% whatever the interest rate is, is really irrelevant. Your principal and interest payment are defined on day one. There is no changing that monthly payment. Now you could certainly accelerate the payoff of that mortgage debt by doing what applying additional extra principal payments, right? But what happens to that extra principal payment when you send it off with your 30 year fixed mortgage payment,   Keith Weinhold  22:34   it drops your loan balance, but your minimum payment amount is the exact same the next month,   Caeli Ridge  22:38   right? And then what happens to all that liquidity that you had prior, it's now illiquid. Right? Exactly that off   Keith Weinhold  22:45   you've just transferred your cash flow into equity. Financial freedom is created by doing the opposite thing and changing equity into cash flow,   Caeli Ridge  22:52   very illiquid, and not the way an investor typically is going to want to run his or her business. So hence the all in one. Now for those of you that have heard the term velocity banking or infinity banking, maybe whole life insurance policy has a similar tone to this. The all in one, I believe, offers even more flexibility for variety of reasons that we're going to get into. But if you've ever heard those terms, that's similar to what this is. So I want to start by I usually like to give an example, okay, and provide some visual aid so that people can connect the dots. Let's start with the 30 year or a fixed rate mortgage. Just because I feel like, especially in the US, this particular loan product, or its concept is widely used in much of the rest of the world, in the US, I feel like we're sort of preconditioned here to really only understand that closed ended, amortized mortgage. So I'm going to start with an example there that actually highlights or leads into the concept of the all in one. So I want you to imagine a 30 year fixed mortgage and a 15 year fixed mortgage. Both of these mortgages originated or started at $400,000 as the balance on day one. The 30 year fixed mortgage locked at an interest rate of 4% and the 15 year fixed mortgage locked at an interest rate of 7% now, when I go through this exercise and I give this example to people, I ask them the question, Well, which one would you choose? And without exception, if they don't understand amortization, they are going to select that 4% 30 year fixed mortgage, because they don't understand that it's about speed. When you run the math and you look at an actual amortization table, you'll see that you'll pay $40,000 more in interest on a 4% 30 year or 360 month, versus a 7% 15 year or 180 month. So the point here, and what I'm illustrating, is it's speed. Now let's segue back over to the all in one. It's all about speed and how much interest we allow to accrue over time. So as you had mentioned, to start the kick this off, Keith, every deposit acts like a payment. Now here's where I struggled with this in learning. And when this was first introduced to me years ago, this part of it really caught me off guard. I had to really dig in and try to focus on what are they talking about? What do they mean? There's no payment due on the all in one. I'm gonna say that again. There's no payment due on the all in one. Think about your 30 year fixed mortgage. If you don't make a payment, what happens?   Keith Weinhold  25:19   You're defaulting, you're in trouble. You become delinquent,   Caeli Ridge  25:23   right? So that is not how this loan is set up. And it's not smoke and mirrors, okay? It's nothing fancy. The deposits that you make from ordinary income from all sources really Okay, so we want to talk about this is really special for investors, because we have access to gross rents, the rental income that's coming in before we send it back out the door, along with our net wages and every other source of income, deposits that we're getting can be utilized to your advantage. One of the ways in which I describe this is, I like to say you've become your own bank, so you have this line of credit, and your gross rents and all of your net wages are going to deposit into your checking account, driving that principal balance down, dollar for dollar, so that the interest accrual is diminished. Because remember what I said a few seconds ago, the interest is calculated on any open ended revolving account based on two factors, the balance for the day and the interest rate, so the more you have in depository income, and you drop it into your checking account, the longer it stays there, the lower the amount of interest is going to accrue within a 30 day billing cycle. Now let me just paint one more picture, and then we can open up to what questions come from this. So I want you to imagine this is I'm going to use easy, round math. I want you to imagine that you have an unpaid principal balance on your mortgage, on your HELOC of $100,000 just for round easy mouth, and that you bring in $10,000 a month in income from all sources. And just to keep it simple, we're going to say that that 10,000 comes in on day one of month one. Okay, so here's our 100 grand sitting there. My $10,000 is deposited into my checking account. Now my balance is $90,000 right? That 10 grand is not going to be touched. You will not touch that $10,000 for 29 days out of a 30 day billing cycle. And I'm giving you optimal tricks. Okay, this is how you want to use it optimally, yeah. Day one, instead of paying interest on $100,000 you're paying interest on paying interest on $90,000 and you're going to pay interest only on $90,000 for 29 days out of a 30 day billing cycle. Well, how am I going to make all my bills? And how am I going to eat? And how am I going to pay my cell phone? And what am I going to do? You're going to use a credit card, or credit cards of your choice, the ones that provide the best points, or whichever you prefer doesn't really matter. To pay all those monthly living expenses now we don't want to pay any interest on our credit cards. Right? 18, 28% whatever it is. No thank you. So now we're going to go to day 30 of that 30 day billing cycle. Right? 29 days that 10 grand has sat in there. Our balance has been 90. Our interest has accrued on that 90. On day 30, the credit card has amassed $9,000 in expenses. You've spent $9,000 for the month on food, gas utilities, car payments, cell phone, everything goes on that card. Day 30, you go into your checking account where your 10 grand has been sitting, and you write a check to pay off the credit card $9,000 so for one day of the month, we went from 90,000 in a balance to 99,000 right. 9000 had to come out of the 10 to pay off the credit card. We had $1,000 left over. Now I want you to fast forward into month to day one our starting balance, because that $1,000 leftover was our residual income, our discretionary our savings, it's what was not spent, but I have full access to it. Should I need it? So day one, month two 99, 000 is my outstanding balance. I drop in my $10,000 of income. 89,000 is what I'm going to be paying interest on for 29 days of a 30 day billing cycle. So this should allow listeners to connect some dots. There are two components of compound interest savings, the first being daily. We've got our income dropping in there. It's just sitting so daily savings, compound interest savings. And then that leftover savings, that residual, that $1,000 is going to be left in there month after month 24/7, access. That's monthly compound interest savings. So those are the two components that make this product profoundly impactful in diminishing that interest accrual over time. Why don't I take a pause   Keith Weinhold  29:30   so with the all in one loan, we're really integrating our consumer accounts with our mortgage. Absolutely right? Is there a way to automate these payments associated with this?   Caeli Ridge  29:43   Yes, I'm glad you asked. So everything that you have become accustomed to today in your checking and savings is going to be exactly the same with the all in one this mortgage is housed by an FDIC insured banking institution. It'll be one of two places depending on which. Which ends up picking up the rights. It'll be North Point or merchants, bank, those are the two that service this loan. Feel free to check them out when you think about the automation of your checking and savings accounts with your B of A, Chase, Wells, Fargo, whomever, credit union, whomever you bank with. Now there will be no difference to that experience and this experience so online bill pay, debit cards, routing numbers, paper checks. Should you still use those mobile apps? If you get a paper check, you take a picture and it uploads to the account. All the same exact automation as you have become used to today will apply with the all in one   Keith Weinhold  30:36   and you described how the all in one loan is an open ended loan versus your plain vanilla 30 or fixed amortizing loan, which is closed ended. For those that don't know, what do those terms open ended and close ended mean?   Caeli Ridge  30:48   So amortized is predetermined over the period of time that you've gotten the mortgage for. So whether it be a 10 year, a 20 year, 2515, 30, whatever it is, it is closed ended, so the interest rate that you secured against the loan amount that you've taken, they have come up with the formula, the calculation that says, This is how much interest you're going to pay over this length of time. And the longer the amount of time that you have selected, let's say a 30 or maybe even a 40 year. Those do exist, in some cases, the longer the amount of time that closed ended amortized mortgages in play, the more interest you're going to pay. Now, it keeps your payment lower for sure, but they're going to make it up in the interest that you'll pay in the long time. Now the open ended revolving just means that it is available to pay down and draw up, and pay down and draw up. It is not closed   Keith Weinhold  31:40   and then with those conventional mortgages, typically, especially when you originate a new loan for years, most of your payment goes to interest, which would not be the case with the all in one loan.    Caeli Ridge  31:53   Exa  ctly. Yeah. So anybody that's looked at an amortization table knows the first 10 ish years, we'll just keep using the most common, 30 year fixed first 10 years or so, maybe even a few years past that, 90% of your payment is going to go to the interest. You won't start chunking down any principal until the back end of that mortgage, 180 or complete flip to the all in one every dollar that goes in there drives the principal down first.   Keith Weinhold  32:18   That is huge, even if you pay a higher interest rate on your all in one loan, you can see how you have fewer dollars out of pocket in interest paid, which is what really matters to you,   Caeli Ridge  32:30   exactly, right? So think about a 20% interest rate. If you're paying 20% interest on 50,000 then 7% interest on 500,000 you can see how the math will work in your favor, regardless of the number in the interest rate in comparing side to side. And one of the other things that we haven't touched on, and maybe this is a good segue, Keith, it's not just the daily deposits. We have clients that take out a, you know, a million dollar line of credit, but they have $500,000 sitting idle for whatever it is their business needs. And in the E commerce. It doesn't even matter, but they have this amount of cash that they're simply going to take from this vehicle a regular checking account over here, and drop it in here, and that interest is saved. That $500,000 that was sitting idle doing nothing over here is now saving interest at an incredible rate. So it's not just the daily and monthly deposits. If you just have idle cash, or you know you're going to be getting a bonus or a tax refund, or whatever it is, those monies that would otherwise just sit in a one to 2% maybe interest bearing checking savings account can now be applied over here, driving down that balance further, dollar for dollar saving in that interest.   Keith Weinhold  33:39   So we are opportunistic investors here, when we see an accumulation of equity in a property or cash in an account, we want to get that moving with this all in one loan again, which is like a first lien HELOC, I would imagine that would we get plenty of room to borrow more in there, and there's been plenty of pay down, we might want to draw against it again for another purchase, and let this thing be flexible like an accordion back and forth as you're drawing the balance down and you're extending it out again. So really, the way I see the flexibility with the all in one loan is that you don't have to go through another mortgage loan origination each time you want to buy a property. You can just draw against this account.   Caeli Ridge  34:20   And we're still just scratching the surface in what this thing does exactly right? And I've said this twice now, you've become your own bank. Yeah, okay, if you pay it down over a short period of time, let's say that you had half a million dollars and you were able to reduce that down to 300,000 there's a $200,000 spread there that, at your discretion, do not have to re pre qualify and pay closing costs. Again, you don't have to ask permission or get it approved, for some reason, those are your funds, your equity, your dollars to do what you want, when you want, how you want. The other thing too is probably a good place to point this out, safety net, as long as there is a spread between what you owe and the credit limit. Whatever that is. If something were to happen That was unfortunate, some unfortunate set of circumstance befell the family, whatever, and no income was coming into the household zero. What would happen if you didn't have money to make your 30 year fixed mortgage payment? You're going to ruin your credit and go into default. Well, the reverse is true with the all in one if there is a spread between the balance and the limit and you needed to not make any deposits, the only thing that's going to happen in that case is interest is going to accrue on top of that balance. The only time a payment deposit is mandated with the all in one is when the balance is about to exceed the limit. That's the only time. Now I'm not saying that that's the way people are going to use it, but that's the reality of it. So what if this? Let's take this down the rabbit hole for a second. If you couldn't make a deposit, you're not going to go into default, right? You're simply going to add some interest on top of the existing balance. But what if you needed to draw from it for living expenses for a couple of months? Yeah? What if you needed, you know, $5,000 a month for three months until you got back on your feet, whatever it is you have access to do that. There's your safety net. You just simply draw from it, as long as there's a spread between the balance and the limit, those are your funds to do with what you choose    Keith Weinhold  36:13   if one takes out a HELOC, whether that's in an all in one loan form or not, something that I've advocated with my listeners for years is that now you do have this line that you can draw against to your point Haley, it's effectively another layer of insurance for that borrower or investor. So if you're interested in keeping down your insurance premium, you can get a HELOC or an all in one loan increase your insurance deductible, which can lower your insurance premium and increase your cash flow.   Caeli Ridge  36:43   Good point. You know, I hadn't even thought about that before. That is a new one on me that is actually brilliant. Yes.   Keith Weinhold  36:50   now we had a listener quite a while ago, Mark from Granite Bay, California, right in Mark's a great long time listener. When he found our show, he wanted to go back and re listen to all the old episodes. And he listens to several episodes multiple times. And Mark wrote in because he heard you on the show quite a while ago. And Mark says, I've been using the all in one loans, amazing mortgage balance deduction. But as a GRE listener, I know I can't be lured in by that alone. I also need to utilize its leverage. I just used my all in one loan Mark continues to say, probably, like a lot of others, to buy a duplex for mid south home buyers in all cash and then refinance that loan into a fanniefreda 30 year from my all in one loan simulations, and Caeli has an all in one loan simulation on her website that she'll tell you about. But to finish Mark's question, Mark says, I have gathered in these simulations that as long as properties are cash flowing, the best use of the all in one seems to be to keep repeating what we did on our first duplex purchase, use the all in one loan, to buy properties in all cash, and then later refi it into better debt or leverage, and then continue to repeat the process. Is that a valid way to use it? That's Mark's question.   Caeli Ridge  38:03   Absolutely. Mark, Well done, sir. And there's a few points here that I want to take a minute and peel back, Keith, so one of the first things that I would say that's really great about that philosophy or that strategy is going to be that on a cash out refinance of the property that was paid cash, using the all in one we get to use the appraised value. So under the circumstances, if you paid $100,000 for it, and perhaps it valued at 110, 151, 20, whatever it is, then we as the lender are going to refinance on a cash out refinance using that higher appraised value, so you have a little bit more leverage there, and potentially get more in that loan to value when you're comparing what you're getting back versus what you put in. The other thing, obviously, is that when you're dealing with a turnkey or a seller, an agent, whatever, everybody knows that when you can come to the table with cash, yeah, right, you become the more desirable buyer. There's that obvious piece, and then in terms of that strategy and that simulation. So please, yes, that is absolutely the first thing that I'm going to do with anybody that calls in is I'm going to get on the phone with them, a teams call, and we're going to do the simulator together. But I encourage everybody to get in there and play around with it. If you're not quite sure what data points it's asking for, let us know, or we'll do one together. But that simulator is going to allow you to compare the all in one to either an existing mortgage on a primary rental property or a new traditional mortgage. Let's say you're thinking about buying an investment property with a 30 year fixed and you want to compare that to the all in one, or maybe you want to refinance one of your existing properties, so you can compare it to existing versus new. And then within that simulation, it will allow you to forecast additional spending. That will allow you to say, I want to take out $50,000 in month 22 and it'll reformulate where the simulation of saved interest, payoff time, all of those things will be available to you within that simulator. It's very slick.    Keith Weinhold  40:00    And now that you, the investor, have the ability to pay all cash, not only can you close faster, but a lot of times, sellers are willing to give you a discount, since you can close faster and pay all cash, and then it's up to you down the road to go ahead and refinance that into a conventional product, or however else you want to do it. Caeli, what else should we know about the all in one loan?   Caeli Ridge  40:24    Couple things I would share. First of all, the qualification metric for the all in one is going to be a little bit more restrictive than a traditional 30 year fixed mortgage, so be prepared for a little extra brain damage. I know that getting qualified for mortgages is not everybody's favorite activity. I get it. There's a lot that goes on to it. It's not like the good old days where some remember you could fog a mirror and get a mortgage, but the all in one does take it to another level, even beyond what you're used to now. So debt to income ratio, I'll give you the specifics really quickly, so just be prepared. I like to set that expectation. Debt to income ratio caps at 43% on the all in one versus 50% that we would have from a traditional Fannie Freddie, 30 year fixed. The reserve requirement is calculated based on the line limit. It's dependent on the debt to income ratio. I'll just leave it there. It'll either be 10% or 15% of the line limit. So if the limit was 100 grand, 10,000 or 15,000 is the reserve requirement, and then the minimum credit score requirement. Owner Occupied is 700 non owner occupied is 720 so a little bit higher on the bar for qualification for the all in one.   Keith Weinhold  41:33   Who is this for? And who is it not for?   Caeli Ridge  41:36   It is for anyone generally that has at least 10% discretionary income at the end of the month. Typically, everybody's circumstances are different. I encourage you to play with the simulator. Get on my schedule. Let's do it together. But more often than not, we find that 10% left over at the end of the month is generally enough for it to work for the individual, and for those of you that got 2% interest rates during the pandemic, I just want you to know that I'm running the simulator against those loans day in and day out. And I would say, I'll give you a 65% of the time the all in one is beaten the, you know, what, out of a two and a half percent 30 year fixed mortgage   Keith Weinhold  42:12   that is really interesting. Well, there's a lot of opportunity and flexibility with the all in one loan. Is there any last thing that we should know about it.   Caeli Ridge  42:22   Start doing your due diligence. This does take a minute to unpack. Don't get overwhelmed by all the information. We've talked about some real tangible stuff here, but there's quite a bit that there would be to uncover. So take your time. Call us. We'll walk through it step by step   Keith Weinhold  42:36   and get started on that simulator and really see what it can do for you to make that actionable. Caeli, Where should one start?   Caeli Ridge  42:44   Head to our website, ridgelendinggroup.com you can email us info@ridgelendinggroup.com and obviously we're always a phone call away at 855, 74, Ridge   Keith Weinhold  42:54   and again, you can find that all in one loan simulator, where you can plug in some real numbers and see how it can benefit you. A friendly representative from Ridge can help you. Go ahead and do that there. So there's a lot of excitement about the all in one loan, especially, or an investor that has a GRE mindset philosophy and thinks about the opportunity of dead equity. But now that we've talked about that, tell us just quickly about some of the other products that you offer in there at ridge.   Caeli Ridge  43:23    So I think one of the real value adds for us is that we're not a one size fits all. We have an extremely diverse menu, as I like to call it, of loan programs. The all in one is at the top of a short list of my favorites. For some individuals, you got the fanniefriddies. You've got non QM, which includes DSCR, debt service, coverage ratio, bank statement loans, asset depletion loans. We have ground up construction for those that are interested in that. We have our short term bridge loans that I talked briefly about, where if you need fix and flip fix and hold, potentially, you need shorter term money, commercial loans for commercial products, commercial loans for residential in a cross collateralization way, if that is to your advantage. So as you can see, it's quite diverse.    Keith Weinhold  44:03   It's been valuable as always, and I definitely learned a few extra things that I did not know about the all in one loan myself. JAYLEE Reyes, it's been great having you back on the show, Keith. Thank you.   Now a mortgage company, of course, they have overhead and employees that they have to pay and so on. And you know, from talking with Chaley some more, I learned that they don't even make much profit from all in one loans. We wanted to discuss it together today for your benefit. However, though there are some real fees with the all in one loan, you pay points of three to 4% of the draw in closing costs only, but it's a one time fee, not every time you draw against it. She also let me know that it does not make your taxes substantially. More complicated, if you think that it can help you clear a few minutes, learn more and get hooked up with that all in one loan simulator, where they will help you through it. Big thanks to Caeli Ridge today, they really make themselves available. You can just call 855, 74, Ridge. Or if it's more your style, visit them at Ridge lending group.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 1  45:31   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  45:59   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.    

Today on The Riff, Jeremy and Justin sit down to talk about what is coming up for North Point. We hope today is helpful and hopeful. Thanks for listening!!

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