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Finding Your Light In A Sea Of Darkness: A look into life purpose, divine missions, and the meaning of life.Life is an ocean.  It is a vast expanse of opportunity with countless shores to explore. At times its waters are calm & peaceful, allowing you to enjoy its majesty while it lulls you to sleep with its gentle lullaby. Other times, the ocean is rough, angry, and turbulent, tossing you to and fro in its rage and turning your world upside down as you are forced to fight for survival.  The ocean is not fair; it doesn't choose sides or discriminate. It follows its ebbs and flows without regard to your feelings or your input. Many a ship has been lost at sea, slammed into the rocks of despair, especially at night. In the darkness, visibility is reduced by the thick black walls of night. Life is hard enough with eyes to see, but you can succumb to fear and desperation without light.  Most people drift aimlessly through life lost, broken, and in search of meaning. They get distracted and follow the drift currents of social expectation, which keeps them from seeking their very purpose.They don't realize that they were made for a purpose, born to follow the light shining out on the water, leading them to the harbor's safety. A lighthouse is a beacon of hope and faith.  It light brings you to hope for a better tomorrow, and you can have faith in its light to guide you through the darkness.  Lighthouses pour their light on the water for sinking souls to see, rescuing millions from the darkness. Though each lighthouse has its own distinctions and signature, its light comes from a universal source that longs to save you.  The question is, will you ever find the light, or will you drift evermore?Join Ron Bouchard and Ana Silveira as they discuss:Life Purpose,  Missions,  & The Meaning Of LifeLinks to Ron Bouchard & Ana Silveirainfo@waypointmastermind.com833-862-2734 Waypointwww.waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard:https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code "2021" and start your journey to a new you today.So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind gSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

Have you ever made a big change in your life only to settle back into the same old negative patterns of self-talk? This is a problem that host Rosanna Gill has faced multiple times throughout her life, whether in work, relationships, or just her day-to-day routine. She has undergone her fair share of “a-ha” moments, when a switch flips and catalyzes a major change....but, for a long time, the positive impacts that came from these shifts never really lasted.In this solo episode of Breaking Labels, Rosanna speaks to the Great Resignation that is currently occurring as record numbers of people leave their jobs post-COVID. She cautions listeners that, while major changes may seem attractive and long overdue after the frustrations of the pandemic, switching jobs or careers won't rid you of your traumas. Everyone has baggage, and when you make shifts in life, this baggage comes right along with you.Tune into this week's episode to learn more about the self-deprecating inner monologue that followed Rosanna from her childhood through her 20s and into her sales career. This emotional and introspective episode will not only remind you that you are not alone, but will also inspire you to do the consistent work required to permanently disrupt the toxic self-talk patterns that are holding you back.Not sure where to start? Rosanna is now offering a 12-week coaching program focused on helping YOU craft positive narratives for long-lasting transformation. If you are interested in learning more, you can reach out to Rosanna via email at rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.com. She can't wait to hear from you!Quotes“When you switch jobs or careers or even if you go from being an employee to an entrepreneur, your trauma goes with it. The stories that you have been telling yourself about yourself and your value or lack thereof go with you, too.” (1:45-2:00) “The ego, when it's decided something about ourselves, will seek out ways to prove it.” “The crazy thing about our egos and the nasty, insidious thing about our egos is they're always looking to prove our thoughts about ourselves. And if your baseline thoughts are, ‘I'm not worthy, I'm not valuable, I should be ashamed of my situation, and it's all my fault,' then you're going to remember the experiences that prove that, that align with that. It's almost going to be like there's a spotlight on those and everything else, all of the other messages that say otherwise, are in the dark.” “Just because you have decided that you don't want to be where you're at doesn't mean that all of a sudden your self-talk changes.” LinksConnect with host Rosanna Gill and Breaking Labels:• https://www.instagram.com/breakinglabelspodcast/• https://breakinglabelspodcast.com/• https://www.instagram.com/rosanna.e.gill/• rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.comSchedule a consultation for aligners with Candid and get $250 off your aligners: http://cnd.co/v/rosanna_2Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Have you ever made a big change in your life only to settle back into the same old negative patterns of self-talk? This is a problem that host Rosanna Gill has faced multiple times throughout her life, whether in work, relationships, or just her day-to-day routine. She has undergone her fair share of “a-ha” moments, when a switch flips and catalyzes a major change....but, for a long time, the positive impacts that came from these shifts never really lasted.In this solo episode of Breaking Labels, Rosanna speaks to the Great Resignation that is currently occurring as record numbers of people leave their jobs post-COVID. She cautions listeners that, while major changes may seem attractive and long overdue after the frustrations of the pandemic, switching jobs or careers won't rid you of your traumas. Everyone has baggage, and when you make shifts in life, this baggage comes right along with you.Tune into this week's episode to learn more about the self-deprecating inner monologue that followed Rosanna from her childhood through her 20s and into her sales career. This emotional and introspective episode will not only remind you that you are not alone, but will also inspire you to do the consistent work required to permanently disrupt the toxic self-talk patterns that are holding you back.Not sure where to start? Rosanna is now offering a 12-week coaching program focused on helping YOU craft positive narratives for long-lasting transformation. If you are interested in learning more, you can reach out to Rosanna via email at rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.com. She can't wait to hear from you!Quotes• “When you switch jobs or careers or even if you go from being an employee to an entrepreneur, your trauma goes with it. The stories that you have been telling yourself about yourself and your value or lack thereof go with you, too.” (1:45-2:00)• “The ego, when it's decided something about ourselves, will seek out ways to prove it.” (11:44-11:51)• “The crazy thing about our egos and the nasty, insidious thing about our egos is they're always looking to prove our thoughts about ourselves. And if your baseline thoughts are, ‘I'm not worthy, I'm not valuable, I should be ashamed of my situation, and it's all my fault,' then you're going to remember the experiences that prove that, that align with that. It's almost going to be like there's a spotlight on those and everything else, all of the other messages that say otherwise, are in the dark.” (25:32-26:09)• “When my CEO says, ‘No PR person has ever worked a 40-hour week,' I'm thinking of these experiences, I'm thinking of the year previous where I didn't have money to get heat for my house, and I thought, ‘You have no idea the sacrifices that I have made to stay here. You have no idea the times that I have put you before I put myself because I didn't think I was worth anything more. I didn't think I could ask for more.'” (33:52-34:18)• “Just because you have decided that you don't want to be where you're at doesn't mean that all of a sudden your self-talk changes.” (35:46-35:52)LinksConnect with host Rosanna Gill and Breaking Labels:• https://www.instagram.com/breakinglabelspodcast/• https://breakinglabelspodcast.com/• https://www.instagram.com/rosanna.e.gill/• rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.comSchedule a consultation for aligners with Candid and get $250 off your aligners: http://cnd.co/v/rosanna_2Podcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

Catching The Winds Of The Crypto Opportunity With ZTEGhttps://ineedtoknowit.com/Today's guest has spent his life providing value to people across the world through his creation of exceptional products and services.  He has also made it possible for people to recognize and take advantage of opportunities that would otherwise be inaccessible to them. Join Ron Bouchard and his guest Troy Mason as they discuss, ZTEG Crypto. A currency designed to produce patterns that can help people to make better decisions! Links to Troy MasonCEO of Ztegrityhttp://ztegcrypto.com/https://ineedtoknowit.com/Links to Ron Bouchardwww.waypointmastermind.cominfo@waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code “2021” and start your journey to a new you today.So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated! Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

“I am not my illnesses,” says Mary Burgoon. Over the years, Mary has received six different mental illness diagnoses, including Bipolar Disorder, Harm OCD, and Borderline Personality Disorder, just to name a few. She has experienced suicidal thoughts, attempted suicide, and been hospitalized countless times. But still, Mary's inner strength and authentic self have always managed to shine through.Jim Burgoon, Mary's husband and life partner, has also undergone his fair share of challenges while coping with Mary's mental illnesses. The two of them acknowledge that mental illness never exists in isolation; instead, it both affects the person who receives the diagnosis and radiates out into all of their relationships as well. However, by combining their passion for research with their love of God, Jim and Mary have dived deep into the implications of Mary's various diagnoses and have found effective ways to cope as a family unit.Tune into this week's episode Breaking Labels to learn more about Mary and Jim's journey through mental illness. Learn why Mary and Jim have become mentors for others who are experiencing similar struggles, how to define your “enough,” and why learning to love beyond feelings is a must. As Jim poignantly expressed to Mary during our show, “I love you, and your illness is just a challenge we have to go through.” You won't want to miss this emotional episode about compassion, faith and forgiveness.Quotes• “That's why we're so open because we always want to put ourselves in the position where we're going to be the mentors that we never found that we always wanted and everybody out there is looking for.” (7:57-8:07)• “The question that's asked a lot is, ‘Well, if God can heal one, why didn't He heal all?'.... One of the things I tell people is, ‘Listen, could God heal all of it in one second? Yes, he absolutely could. But we serve a progressive God that literally will walk through a process.' We don't claim to know what God's going to do, we believe God whether he heals her or not. But the deal is that it's a stepping process because every step that we take is a deeper faith.” (24:01-24:40)• “People will live according to the labels that we're given or the labels that we give ourselves. So what you do is when you say, ‘I'm stupid,' guess where you just put yourself? You put yourself in chains and you put yourself in bondage because now you're living according to your label.” (37:10-37:23)• “I never blamed God, nor did I ever lose trust in God in the situation.” (44:14-44:18)• “What I can do is live better today, that one percent better. I can live today and say, ‘You know what, if put back in that situation today with what I know now, it would have been completely different.' But I was young and dumb, and I'm judging my young and dumb self on somebody who's wise and experienced.” (57:18-57:34)• “When you are with someone that has mental illness, when you have a relationship with them in any way, shape or form, they are not their mental illness. That's not who they are…. You can list off all the traits of a mental illness, and you can say, ‘Yes, this person exhibits this, this, this, and this, but it's still not who they are.” (1:15:14-1:15:45)• “Learn to love beyond the feelings because in the midst of the feelings, it's easy to withhold love…. If love is going to be patient and love is going to be kind, it's understanding that my love and when I say I love you, it's not a feeling, it's a commitment. And it means that I'm going to go deeper, and I'm going to be here when all of the dust settles, and you don't ever have to worry about me leaving…. I love you, and your illness is just a challenge we have to go through.” (1:17:17-1:18:07)LinksConnect with Jim and Mary:• YouTube: www.leadwithjim.live  • Instagram: www.instagram.com/leadwithjim• Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/leadwithjim  • You can find me on all social media @leadwithjim• For a FREE DISC personality Ebook, visit www.leadwithjim.comSchedule a consultation for aligners with Candid and get $250 off your aligners: http://cnd.co/v/rosanna_2Connect with host Rosanna Gill:• https://www.instagram.com/breakinglabelspodcast• https://breakinglabelspodcast.com/• https://www.instagram.com/rosanna.e.gill/• rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.comPodcast production and show notes provided by FIRESIDE Marketing

If you are trying to navigate the chaos in business for your market research, marketing, selling, and delivering for clients, you are not alone. Chaos brings a lot of uncertainty, doubt, and worry on the business journey, and in this episode, we explore how Monica Henderson was able to overcome these challenges to have a healthy flow of ideal clients.What you will learn How to have confidence in the value your givingHow to be passionate about your market researchHow to find your authentic voiceHow to be led by service But who is Monica?Monica M Henderson, author, creator, and founder of MinkLife Motivation has over twenty years of expertise as a corporate executive, entrepreneur, consultant, and coach. Her background as a board executive, combined with her experience as an entrepreneur, positions her with a unique skill set to help individuals and organizations grow and prosper. HighlightsFounder & Creator of MinkLife MotivationA Global Life, Business, Branding, and Networking Development Specialist Event Producer Motivational Speaker and Host of MinkLife Motivation LIVEAuthor of A Visionary's Manifesto Book Series Philanthropist and Socialite To learn more about MinkLife Motivation:Take a Tour: www.MinkLifeMotivation.comSchedule a chat: www.MonicaMHenderson.comIf you are looking to join the community of heart-centered business owners who are looking forward to collaborating with you, I'll see you in the Serving Circle:The Serving Circle - Heart-Centered CEO Collaboration

There Is No Such Thing As AverageJoin Ron Bouchard as he discusses the fact that, “There Is No Such Thing As Average.”Links to Ron Bouchardwww.waypointmastermind.cominfo@waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344 Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/ Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586 Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/ Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code “2021” and start your journey to a new you today. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated! Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

In this bonus episode Rosanna walks you through an exercise meant to not only heal relationship wounds but also empower you to set boundaries and incorporate the lessons from the exercise in your day to day life. Use this exercise for any relationship, be it a family member, partner, friend, or even boss.  And if you do the exercise, let us know what your experience is by emailing us at Rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.comSchedule a consultation for aligners with Candid and get $250 off your aligners:http://cnd.co/v/rosanna_2Connect with host Rosanna Gill:Instagram: @BreakingLabelsPodcast // @rosanna.e.gillEmail: rosanna@breakinglabelspodcast.com

The Primary Causes of Failure and How to Avoid Them Join Ron Bouchard and Dinka Vujovich as they discuss the 25 primary causes of failure. Links to Dinka Vujovichwww.coachingbydinka.com  Links to Ron Bouchardinfo@waypointmastermind.com833-862-2734 Waypointwww.waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344 Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/ Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586 Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/ Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code "2021" and start your journey to a new you today. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated! Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

The Power Of PivotingThere is a very powerful saying, “You're like a tea bag-not worth much until you have been through some hot water.” That is to say, unless and until you have experienced and survived adversity, you cannot help guide others through the storms of life.  In this life, we have very little control of the inevitable storms of life. We do, however, have complete control over how we prepare for and perceive those storms.  Storms are an essential part of life because it is in these storms, we build up the resilience to move ahead.  It is also in this adversity and failure that we learn to succeed. “Failure is the greatest laboratory of success.” It is also important to note that the most successful people are not generally the ones who had an easy road but those who have endured hardships and learned how to adjust their sails and change direction.Join Ron Bouchard and Monica Ortega as they discuss how to embrace change and harness the power of pivoting. Links to Monica Ortegawww.monicagoes.com Links to Ron Bouchardinfo@waypointmastermind.com833-862-2734 Waypointwww.waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344 Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/ Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586 Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/ Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code "2021" and start your journey to a new you today. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated!Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

Andrew Bartlow is a growth company advisor with over 25 years of experience in Human Resources and Talent Management. Over his career, Andrew Bartlow has seen companies struggle or fail because of their HR challenges.Andrew shares a step-by-step, scalable strategy of building an HR team from the ground up. His unconventional approach of hiring a recruiter first and Chief People Officer last has proven successful in more than 50 high-growth startups around the world.Andrew is the co-author of “Scaling for Success: People Priorities for High Growth Organizations” and the founder of Series B Consulting, which helps businesses articulate their people strategy, accelerate their growth, and navigate rapid change.During the interview, we discuss…why startup founders don’t emphasize HR enoughhow startup founders can build their HR teamwhat qualities make a strong startup HR teamcommon mistakes in startup HR teamsAfter the interview…Read the article Andrew mentions, “When will business return to normal — and what will ‘normal’ look like?” https://medium.com/lightspeed-venture-partners/when-will-business-return-to-normal-and-what-will-normal-look-like-6110d78b07d4Read the Startup Pulse Survey results on Workplace Re-Entry https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jY0ICTdRAMCrfxvW6v-vThIt6ZK-WYwl/viewRead Andrew’s book, Scaling for Success: People Priorities for High-Growth Organizations https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Success-Priorities-High-Growth-Organizations/dp/0231194447Connect with Andrew Bartlow on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartlow/Visit the Series B Consulting website https://www.seriesbconsulting.comContact Series B Consulting info@seriesBconsulting.comSchedule a meeting with Andrew https://calendly.com/andrew-bartlow=============Allison DunnExecutive Business CoachDeliberate Directions + Executive Business Coaching + Training Center3003 W Main Street, Suite 110, Boise ID 83702(208) 350-6551Website https://www.deliberatedirections.comLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisondunnPodcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deliberate-leaders-podcast-with-allison-dunn/id1500464675

Foundations of Mindset: The Twelve Core Principles of Waypoint MastermindJoin Ron Bouchard and Antonio Seale as they discuss:·How to arm yourself against the drunk monkey and take back control of your life          Links to Ron Bouchardinfo@waypointmastermind.com833-862-2734 Waypointwww.waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344 Links to Antonio Seale www.Waypointmastermind.com/antonioseale Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code "2021" and start your journey to a new you today. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated!Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

In this season, we are revisiting with Media Buyers to discuss what techniques and systems they are putting in place to deal with the networks cleaning house with the privacy data changes. Top European media buyer Greg Cardinale talks about how his programming background and focusing on systems has held him in good stead this year.Greg talks about some of the tools he is testing for tracking and some of the internal systems he is implementing to professionalize his agency and position himself for growth.You can contact Greg at egc1001@gmail.comSchedule an appointment with one of our team to show you around AdSkills: https://get.adskills.com/tour/​​​Want to hire an AdSkills certified media buyer? Click here: http://mediabuyers4hire.com/​

Earl Weiss is a certified hypnotherapist in Los Angeles specializing in helping people create rapid behavioral change. Earl has numerous different specialty certifications, trained in many healing modalities, therapeutic techniques, and methodologies. He was always looking for or creating the best methods to help his clients be, feel and perform their very best in life. His Hypnotherapy Practice was featured on the show Destination LA on CBS and Amazon Prime.In this episode, your hosts discuss different spiritual and hypnotherapeutic methods for realizing negativity and creating from a positive outlook. Earl shares some of his adventures with Astral Travel!Earl WeissFor my courses through MindYouphoria.com, listeners can get 20% off their first course with the code "CHARMED"www.earlweiss.comSchedule a free strategy session with me directly (213) 347-4044Tricia Carr is an empathic channel, multidimensional medium, spiritual teacher, certified hypnotherapist and animal telepath.Tricia Carr:www.triciacarrcharm.comhttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charmed-life-with-tricia-carr/id1173744974https://www.facebook.com/TriciaCarrCharmhttps://www.instagram.com/triciacarrcharm/Join the Charmed Life Mailing List for Spirit guidance, show announcements, special offers and free giftshttps://app.convertkit.com/landing_pages/444740?v=7Mystic Arts Academy with Tricia CarrRegister or Subscribehttps://triciacarrcharm.com/mystic-arts-academy/ Charmed Meditation Storehttps://triciacarrcharm.com/store/Mentioned in this episode:HMI College of Hypnotherapyhttps://hypnosis.edu/Free Hypnosis Sessions with qualified HMI residents:https://hypnosis.edu/sessions/

In this new series of the AdSkills Pro podcast, we are revisiting some of our Pro Media buyers to see how they are dealing with the massive industry changes bought on by each of the major Ad networks. We were thrilled to have back savvy media buyer Dorothy Illson and talk with her on how she is preparing her clients for the changes bought about by iOS 14 and facebooks various policy changes.Feel free to reach out to Dorothy at needleseyemedia.comSchedule an appointment with one of our team to show you around AdSkills: https://get.adskills.com/tour/​Want to hire an AdSkills certified media buyer? Click here: http://mediabuyers4hire.com/

Join Head Coach Jim Johnson and Ryan Shantz from SumoQuote and Epic Roofing as they discuss what it takes to Present Like a PRO.00:05 - Introduction02:27 - Meet Ryan Shantz from SumoQuote06:54 - Presenting as an Experience11:25 - Setting the Standard for Presentations22:40 - The Pinnacle Moment for Epic Roofing25:00 - Staying Competitive34:28 - The Future of Buying a Roof40:32 - What Impact Do You Hope SumoQuote Will Make?42:03 - What is Your Greatest Achievement?44:30 - Best Advice You Have Ever Gotten?47:35 - How Do You Want to Be Remembered?49:25 - Check Out SumoQuote: https://www.sumoquote.com Contact Ryan: ryan@sumoquote.comSchedule a Demo: https://calendly.com/sumoquote-demo50:30 - 25% off SumoQuote for 3 Months: Contact hello@sumoquote.com and mention Contractor Radio for the discount code.51:19 - Parting ThoughtsGet a Free Assessment of your business here: https://bit.ly/CTR-podcastA huge shoutout to this year's sponsors that you know you can trust! Thanks for making Contractor Radio possible!Signpost - helping home service businesses attract, connect with, and grow their customer base! https://www.signpost.com/Balanced Claims - solve claims administration problems for contractors who want to grow in the insurance restoration industry! https://balanceclaims.com/Atlas Roofing - the shingle manufacturer that innovates, supports, and enables contractors to gain a competitive advantage in their market. https://www.atlasroofing.com/Kill Your Competition - a distinctively different web design and marketing company.   No hidden fees, more qualified leads. Learn more at https://killyourcompetition.today/GetTheReferral - the industry-leading referral app to proactively get better leads more often! https://www.getthereferral.com/ContractorCoachPRO - the executive level coaching team that helps contractors get control of their business so they can grow their business to achieve personal and financial freedom. Take our free contractor assessment today and get a free coaching call! https://bit.ly/CTR-podcastHail Trace - the industry-leading storm data provider that helps contractors get more customers! https://hailtrace.com/SumoQuote - contractor quotes that and crush the competition. The fastest way to build custom quotes that impress clients and win more work! https://www.sumoquote.com/Beacon - From the first quote to the final invoice, we are dedicated to the success of contractors. We maintain a massive network of 500+ locations in the U.S. & Canada and a suite of digital resources like automated order workflows, live pricing, material ordering, and mobile delivery tracking. https://www.becn.com/ScopeTechnologies - providing contractors with the measuring and estimating tools to win more jobs in more services! Roofing, Gutters, Siding, Painting, Insulation, and Concrete! https://myscopetech.com/

Believing In Yourself: A Recipe for Self-Confidence·         Social withdrawal·         Anxiety and emotional turmoil·         Lack of social skills and self-confidence. Depression and/or bouts of sadness·         Eating disorders·         Inability to accept complimentsThese are some of the symptoms of low self-esteem and self-confidence. It is estimated that 85% of the world's population is affected by low self-esteem or self-confidence.  What is self-confidence? Why is it important? and How Do You learn to believe in yourself?  That is the subject of today's episode.Join Ron Bouchard and Ana Silveira as they discuss:·         The real reason most people fail·         What is self-confidence?·         The difference between self-confidence and self-esteem·         The opposite of self-confidence·         The difference between ego and confidence, vanity and self-esteem·         The ramifications of having low self-confidence·         The benefits of improving self-confidence or self-image·         The steps to improving self-esteem and self-confidenceLinks to Ron Bouchard & Ana Silveirainfo@waypointmastermind.com833-862-2734 Waypointwww.waypointmastermind.comSchedule a Free 50 Minute Clarity Session with Ron Bouchard: https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=18291344 Related Links and Resources:Visit our Gone Fishing Podcast Webpagehttp://gonefishingpodcast.com/Subscribe on Itunes:https://podcasts.apple.com/.../gone-fishing/id1519168586Support our work by checking out our great merchandise:https://www.sargassoapparel.com/Register for free access to our Gone Fishing Tackle Box Tools and Resources. Our guests have shared some of their most excellent tools, information, and advice. All of it is available free as well as an ever-increasing array of mindset, coaching, real estate, financial, health, wellness, relationship, and other tools & resources to help you improve your life, increase your income, and live life on purpose. Join us today by visiting our website at www.waypointmastermind.com and click the Join Now button.  Enter code "2021" and start your journey to a new you today. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish! (Douglas Adams Tribute)Thank you for tuning in. We at the Gone Fishing Podcast and Waypoint Mastermind genuinely appreciate you! To get more content sent directly to your device as it becomes available, subscribe to iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast application. Reviews on iTunes are beneficial and appreciated!Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/gonefishing)

#66: Investing in tax liens may sound scary and complicated. But as you’ll see from today’s podcast interview, with a little bit of research upfront, it can be as easy as buying toilet paper on Amazon. And the capital required to invest can be as little as a couple hundred bucks, making it a low-risk way (compared to buy-and-hold real estate) to try a new investing strategy.This week, I deep dive on tax lien investing with Phil Kessler, a prolific tax lien investor who has extensively researched the tax lien investing laws of multiple states. He also creates a lot of educational content about tax lien and tax deed investing online.We discuss:How tax lien investing works + how to make money from itDifferences between tax lien vs. tax deed investingHow tax lien interest rates are set + realistic rates you can expectWhat makes an ideal tax lien investmentDue diligence checklist for analyzing tax lien deals (and how it differs from typical real estate investing due diligence)Tips and tricks for evaluating physical property condition, environmental risks, etc, when you can’t access the houseHow tax lien auctions work + winning bid strategiesHow tax lien investment funds work + tradeoffs of investing in a fundCheck it out here:https://hackyourwealth.com/tax-lien-investingHave you ever invested in tax liens? What’s been your experience? What other questions do you have about it? Let me know by leaving a comment.Don't miss an episode, hit that subscribe button...If you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss any upcoming episodes!Apple PodcastsOvercastSpotifyStitcherI need your help, please leave a listener review :)If you liked this episode, would you please leave a quick review on Apple Podcasts? It’d mean the world to me and your review also helps others find my podcast, too!Links mentioned in this episode: Nationwide Environmental Title Research (directory of public records websites)Velocity REOs (drive to any property, take 10-15 photos for you)National Association of Counties (find tax sale info on county treasurer site)National Tax Lien AssociationRealAuction.comGrant Street Grouppropertyonion.comSchedule a private 1:1 consultation with meHYW private Facebook community Intro/Outro: Old Bossa by Twin Musicom.

Brad's Bio: Brad started his career in corporate marketing where he achieved success as a marketing executive with advertising agencies and as a Director of Marketing of a Fortune 500 company. He led Inner Circle, (CEO/Owner peer groups), where he facilitated meetings and coached over 130 CEOs to grow their businesses on average by 20%. COVID changed his direction, and he became a Certified Mind Health Coach. His company, MindSync, shows clients how to defrag their minds to allow the software they were born with to run better. They can then to turn down their emotions, imaginations and memories in the moment rather than regret that time when they lost it. They can calm their minds to achieve better focus, health, reduced stress and anxiety and achieve greater performance.His 3MX program – Mindfulness – Bring Awareness to the Present, Meditation – Deep Relaxation to Adjust the Past to Realize a Better Future, Movement – Towards Improvement – Constantly Creating a Life You Love - together they provide the Xponential factor of synergism and rapid adoption. MindSync shares a nine-step program to better sleep, more energy, and less stress. It can even lower your golf score. Mind Health Coach, Bibliophile, Golfer, Proud Husband and Grandfather, Veteran and Wine and Food Enthusiast. Links From the Episode:brad@mindsyncpro.comwww.MindSyncpro.comSchedule a meeting with BradJoin the Twin Cities Wellness Collective™

Our sponsor - www.houghtonhorns.comSchedule a free, 30 minute meeting with me. No commitment unless that's what you wantwww.ryanbeachtrumpet.com/work-with-meIn this episode, I'll go over what my experience with healthy and unhealthy habits surrounding exercise, nutrition, life organization, and trumpet practice has looked like.Support the show (https://thatsnotspit.com/support/)

We had a great discussion with Cathy Cortez, Area Director for Acti-Kare Galveston, about what in-home care IS and how it can benefit seniors, but ALSO those needing extra help around the house!Connect with Cathy Cortez Area DirectorActi-Kare Galveston (281)968-5037Direct: (281)726-0850ccortez@actikare.comSchedule time with me: https://calendly.com/actikaregalvestonhttps://actikare.com/galvestonYour hosts: Colton Cockerell & Trisha StetzelClick for more about your hosts:Colton CockerellTrisha StetzelMore fun and interviews on our FB page!https://www.facebook.com/bridgethegapinterviews

Bucks County Bytes presents to you Jen Franks Ahaghotu, Bucks County resident and creator of "The Course Creation Guide" - helping to empower women to achieve financial freedom by creating course content and launching online courses. Jen's background is a very impressive and academic background, as she was a teacher and administrator for over 15 years and studied at Harvard University. Jen worked at the New York City Dept of Education and has a superb background to help so many people out there in their own businesses. Take a step inside our podcast and learn more about Jen, The Course Creation Guide, and how it can help you in your own business. We are dealing with the pandemic and the crisis that changed our lives in 2020 and into the future. It's time to think different, create different,ly and show the world what you have to offer. Let Jen be your guide...thank you Jen for your time with Bucks County Bytes.Jen Franks AhaghotuFacebookJen Franks AhaghotuEmail Jen at:jen@jenfranksahaghotu.comSchedule an appointment with JenInstagram@jenahaghotuBucks County Byteshttps://www.biolinky.co/buckscountybytesSupport the show (https://paypal.me/msexpresso?locale.x=en_US)

Today we talk about Alcohol as a rite of passage into adulthood. Alcohol as a rite of passage is completely void of the tools necessary to step into the future as independent & connected to our feminine power of emotional intelligence and embodied intuition.We need to embrace and embody these aspects to become sovereign Women, claiming personal responsibility and moving through limitations with excitement to meet the challenge, rather than fear of failure. Honoring your life with the sacred journey of Dismantling Alcohol, and Sobriety, is the rites of passage you and only you can claim for your self to what this life and your growth mean and represent.Email Mary with Questions for the show: Mary@marywagsaffcoach.comSchedule your free alignment call with Mary HERE

Today we pose the question: What do you really want your relationship with alcohol to look like and why? It's good to start with a question to start to understand the process of what you want. I review the 5 shifts to getting alcohol out of your way that I teach my clients. I also give you the recipe to my favorite holiday elixir also. For Podcast Inquiries: mary@marywagstaffcoach.comSchedule your Free Alignment session with Mary HERE!

Today I discuss a subject that I have gotten a ton of questions about. What is wholistic health or functional medicine. I chat with Dr. Tanya Gold, M.D. and ask about her expertise in the field. She has been on both side of the medical field and shares her story, going from traditional practice to a wholistic approach.Contacting Dr. Tanya Gold, MD:www.dgoli.comSchedule an appointment: 813-379-7092drgold@dgoli.comFacebook - Dr. Gold's Optimal Living InstituteContacting Dr. Raul SerranoContact Info: www.DrSerrano.meShow Sponsor: Re-Nutritional ProductsWebsite: www.life.reCollagen Test: www.life.re/collagentestFree 14 Day Re-Boot Book: www.The14dayreboot.com

Trigger warning: Mention of childhood trauma, sexual abuse, self-harm, PTSD, abusive relationships.Isabelle lives with Intractable Migraine. She's tried everything to break the migraine cycle - from traditional medication, intravenous injections, neuromodulation devices, anti-CGRP medications and a stay at the Diamond Headache Clinic in Chicago, but nothing is effective.Despite this, Isabelle is an incredibly bubbly and positive personality, and she's full of encouragement to those around her. She's adapting her career to allow her to focus more on her life coaching and support community for abuse survivors, and finding ways to work from home. Join us for an inspirational chat and bring a little of Isabelle's positivity and encouragement into your day!Ways to Connect with Isabelle:-Instagram: www.Instagram.com/msisabelledowlinFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/isabelle.dowlinFREE IG Biz Tips Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2379054185511448/?ref=shareLinktr.ee access to all my direct links: https://linktr.ee/MsisabelledowlinStill I Rise Community/Mentorship: https://stillirise.mn.co/landing?space_id=3304832Email address: msisabelledowlin@gmail.comSchedule 1:1 Zoom Calls both business and mindset growth opportunities: https://calendly.com/msisabelledowlinThe Resilient Life Of Isabelle blog: https://msisabelledowlin.wordpress.com/Hire me for Freelancing/Virtual Assistant short/long-term projects: https://www.upwork.com/o/profiles/users/~0146f070990ceac8cb/Music by Lyndon WesleySupport the show (https://www.facebook.com/MigraineXalone/)

Join Tim and Global Trellis guests as they discuss the differences between coaching, counseling, and spiritual direction, as well as places where there is overlap. This episode will increase your understanding of these services and the vital role each one plays in moving us toward wholeness. Equip yourself with the tools to navigate choices when it comes your support structure, personally and professionally.Guest List:Amy YoungLife enthusiast. Author. Sports lover. Jesus follower. Supporter of cross-cultural work. Amy helps people find the sweet spot between burnout and stalling out so they can keep growing.Website: globaltrellis.comLori FerrellLori Ferrell is a wife, mother of two boys, and a spiritual director. Her passion is to invite others into rhythms of rest and to know themselves as fully known and fully loved. Website: soulsala.orgLane ArnoldLane Arnold delights in the creative invitations of the wild, winsome, and wondrous Good Father, Lover Jesus, and Holy Spirit. She passionately pursues prayerfulness for herself, her family, her friends and for her directees and those she works with in her roles as life coach, writing coach, and editor.Website: lanemarnold.com. Katie Brown, MA, LPCKatie Brown is a follower of Jesus, wife, mother, friend and licensed professional counselor in the state of Colorado, USA. She loves people, healthy living, the outdoors and the global world.Website: zoecounselinglife.comSchedule your complementary coaching discovery call: encompasslifecoaching.com/schedule-life-coach-callSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/timaustin)

This episode of Essential Change: The Podcast deals with the corner stone of the 2ndstarts method. The importance of getting and keeping the attention of those we care for can not be overstated. My website http://www.2ndstarts.comSchedule a 15 minute call : https://schedulewith2ndstarts.as.me/

In this episode, I welcome Kent Rader! Kent is known as the World's Cleanest Comedian, and he is also a motivational speaker and author of the book, "Let It Go, Just Let It Go" about how to deal with stress. From his background of accounting to his professional speaking career and everything in between, Kent shares what fires him up about the arts.  Get in touch with Kent Rader: www.kentraderspeaks.com | https://www.facebook.com/Kent-Rader-130340647028349 | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT77fL6ZiPfx7lyCLAmDgog Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateartArtfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Episode 19 - Kent RaderLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.[00:00:16] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:24] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience  as so beautiful.[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am so excited to have as my guest today the absolutely  wonderful Kent Rader, and Kent is the world's cleanest comedian. He is also a motivational speaker, a accountant, and so much more. And Kent, thank you so much for being here. I am just delighted that you are here with us.[00:01:02] Kent Rader: Well, thank you for having me, Lindsay. I've missed talking to you.[00:01:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I know![00:01:08] Kent Rader: I'm not a very good accountant. Okay. We probably ouught to clarify that, but yeah.[00:01:17]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I'm sure this will come out a little bit more in your story because this is one of the things that I think is so great about just how you have changed careers and kind of developed into who you are today and all of that. But, Kent, do you mind just sharing a little bit about your background? [00:01:34] Kent Rader: Yeah, not at all. I went to William Jewell College in Liberty, Missouri and graduated, went into accounting 'cause that was, you know, I needed a job and did it for 17 years and I was, I just, you know, it was a job and that's all it was. And, but I was fortunate. I went, I went back into public accounting at a time when home care agencies were really changing their payment mechanism for Medicare and they needed to know how to do a budget, needed to know how to read a financial statement. And so I was asked by all these home care associations around the country to do programs on it.[00:02:09] And it was so dry. I mean, talking about double entry accounting and how it flows into it. And so I started telling stories and the audiences laughed and I thought, I just love that. And so, we got to a point to where I knew I was going to have to do something different. And I told my wife, I was on the verge of becoming a partner in the accounting firm, and I was offered it one day and I came home and I said to Twyla--my wife Twyla--I said, "I just don't want it." And she said, "What do you want to do?" And I said, "I want to be a speaker." And she said, "Then be a speaker." And I said, "You know, we may be passing up a fortune and I'll never, and it's the sweetest thing you've ever said to me."[00:02:49] She said, "Your happiness is more important than all the money you'll ever make. So I started being a speaker and I was teaching, I did some financial programs, but then I really had an interest in health. I'd run my entire life and I had a lot of interest in stress. And so I developed a program on how to reduce stress and wrote a book called, "Let It Go, Just Let It Go" on reducing stress, but then it really evolved into how humor helps us reduce stress. And I thought, "Well, I want to get more funny." So I started going to an open mic night to comedy clubs, which was, that was the extent, Lindsey, of, of my idea was "Okay, I'll do open mic nights and learn how to write and learn how to be funnier." And, it takes years to do that.[00:03:34] And so by the time I finally thought had a handle on it. I'm headlining clubs and I started working in theaters, just doing standup. And so my career really evolved into 50/50 speaking at conferences, mostly for healthcare and education associations, and the other half doing live shows of just stand-up comedy in theaters. And because I worked clean, I could take all the material from my standup and move it right into speaking. It was appropriate, and it's been a long... as the Grateful Dead said, a long, strange trip. So.[00:04:11]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I would love to touch on something because you do talk a lot about the fact that you are the world's cleanest comedian. And so what does that mean to you?  I'm sure there's an intention behind it. So do you mind just sharing sort of what got you to that point?[00:04:27] Kent Rader: Not at all. And my original thought was I needed to be clean because the material I was writing I wanted to move into the speaking and you had to be super clean to be, you have to be super clean to be a speaker, but quite by accident I realized that you'd never really find what's truly funny unless you work clean. And, and Chris Rock, who I've known for a long time, he came up to me two or three years ago. And he said, "You know, I talk about you and Vic Henley"--who unfortunately just passed away this year--he said, "because I tell people, work on the material and make it clean. 'Cause you don't know what's truly funny unless it's clean and then you can dirty it up later if you want to."[00:05:05] Well, I've never really wanted to dirty it up, so I just kept it clean.  I have nothing against profanity, as you know, from being my friend, I swear like a sailor when we're not in a different venue, but I don't want profanity to be the punchline, you know? And that, that's the thing that people don't understand about  Dave Chappelle or Carlin. You could have taken out every profane word and the material was still funny. And too many comedians today think, "Oh, all I have to do is swear or talk about sex on stage. And, and it'll be funny." I mean, yeah, you'll get a laugh, but it isn't truly funny. You know, if you take all that out, what do you have? You still have to, in my opinion, you still have to have some content.[00:05:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I love that because like you said, that's made your stories very easily transferable to many different opportunities that you've had to speak and things. So it's not like you have to reinvent the wheel every time, you know?[00:06:01] Kent Rader: Right. And we talk about, about artists--too many comedians have-- and I think we've talked about this personally--too many comedians have a... they have a mindset of poverty. You know, I, I can't make a lot of money or I'm not an artist and that's just not true. You have to find a venue where you can make a better wage or living wage, if you will. You don't have to live with poverty to do it. And so one of the ways that you can do it in comedy is to be clean because people will pay higher ticket prices to come see a clean show. They will, you can be on television without having to change anything you do. Network television, I should say. And, and you'll find out--Jim Gaffigan's a great example.  Jim has always worked clean, and I've known Jim for awhile too. He's a great example of someone who's, who's reached a pinnacle because he's working clean.[00:06:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, he's fantastic. And it's, it's nice, especially for those of us who don't necessarily want to hear all those, what feels like it becomes kind of gratuitous instead of just the material that is funny, like you said, on its own, and it doesn't need that. So.[00:07:16] Kent Rader: Exactly.[00:07:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, that's great. Well, and speaking of sort of the money aspect of it, I've chatted with a couple of artists, especially people that maybe are painters or things like that, but  did you ever have a difficult time putting a price on your art, per se? 'Cause I know that that's a common theme of, well, I've been doing this my whole life and it doesn't feel like I should charge this much.  How do you navigate that?[00:07:42] Kent Rader: How I navigated it was looking at what other people in my world, other performers, what they were charging. And I remember, you know, the first time I asked for a certain dollar amount, a friend of mine, Mark LeBlanc, said ask for $500 more than you're comfortable as far as the speaking engagement goes, ask for $500 more than you're comfortable with asking. I would have a dollar amount and at some point I'd screw up my courage and ask for $500 more than and they would either accept it or reject it. But most of the time they just accepted it. And so I built my fees up in that regard, but first by looking at what people were charging, and then kinda as I looked at the speakers, you know, very few were as funny as I was, because very few had taken the pains to go to comedy clubs and do a midnight show and go through all of that in order to learn how to be funny.[00:08:39] I mean, they may have a two-minute set up and one joke, and mine are, you know, seven, eight, 10 jokes a minute. And so that that's how I developed that. I think getting out of your comfort of what you're asking for is a huge, a huge part. And once you receive that money, now you begin to get comfortable with that money. And at some point as you improve, you say, okay, I want to ask for a little bit more and you know, maybe 10% or 20%. And once when somebody accepts that it becomes the norm, you know. But you, you have a skill and it's not a skill like in accounting, but I mean the way you can perform with your body as a dancer, is something that I will never be able to do, and watching the beauty of that, and I should pay to see the beauty of that.[00:09:37] And so, yeah, I think find what other people in your level are charging and then start working your fees up. And, and of course, after, after this, after the COVID is over, I don't know that we'll have any idea what fees will be. We'll deal with that. Then we may have to start over, who knows, but we'll deal with that then. But yeah, that's how I did it. And of course I'm an accountant, so you know, that, that  made perfect sense to me. I mean, I have a friend out in Kansas who, she's a wonderful speaker and she will not charge, she will not charge what she's worth. I mean, she brings home for speaking engagement and just as much headache of traveling as I have, and she'll bring home, you know, 25% of what I'm making, and it's because she doesn't see the value in what she's delivering to these people, and she has tremendous value. And you have a skill that a whole lot of people can't do, or if they could, we'd have a whole lot more people in the arts that we don't and, and you need to be paid for.[00:10:46]Lindsey Dinneen: Amen. I hope everyone listening heard all of that. Because there is so much value to the arts and, you know, and obviously those who have listened to this podcast for a while, kind of know my stance on it and how much I know that the arts can have such a, such a beautiful impact on people's lives and on culture and, and, and the change that it can bring in. So. But the, the people that create that, they are providing something of value. And so, yeah, getting paid for that is important.[00:11:22] Kent Rader: And there is no reward for being a starving artist. There is nothing of merit about being a starving artist. I mean, our, our daughter, Maggie is, you know, is a Shakespearian actress, and yet she has more money in the bank most of the time than I have because she's good with money, but she makes people pay her for her art. And her husband, Justin, is good too, because he makes people pay him for his art. He's also a performer.  And, you know, if Shakespeare were easy to do, we would all do it and read it, you know, but when, when Shakespeare play that Maggie does you understand it as well as you would understand a movie or a play that was written today because she understands what Shakespeare wanted to do. And she understands the rhythm and the rhyme of Shakespeare. And it's beautiful. I have a joke about her being a Shakespearian actress and I cite two Shakespeare lines in that joke. And she one day corrected me on how to say it. And when she did that line I had been saying for two or three years made all the sense in the world, and she said, you pause here. And I thought, "Oh yeah, that makes sense 'cause I just run it all together." I knew the words, but I didn't know. I wasn't portraying the meaning of it. [00:12:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. Well, and I think that speaks to your due diligence. Something that I've really admired about learning about how you work, and that is-- I'll let you explain it more-- but one of the things that I've been impressed with is that when Kent does a show, he doesn't just say, "Okay, wahoo!" And then go party afterwards. He, as he'll share, goes back to his hotel room or back home and starts reviewing what he did, what worked, what didn't, tweaking things. So he is a true professional in that he's constantly also working on his art. He's not just satisfied with where he is. Does that, is that correct?[00:13:29] Kent Rader: It is. And, and the one thing I do--that probably even most comedians don't do--I write every day. I don't write productively every day. A lot of it's junk, you know, but I do, I have a time every day where I spend two to three hours just writing and then the process I have, which has been interrupted with the COVID, is once I have something written, I take it into a comedy club usually just doing a guest set. So I do 10 minutes, you know, walk in and do 10 minutes with the show and, or I still do four or five weeks a year in comedy clubs where I can do an hour set and string some of that newer material together. I do it. I record it. I take it, like you say, back to my hotel room and I listen to it.[00:14:14] I see what works and what doesn't work. And then the next morning when I'm writing, I rework the stuff that isn't working, take it back into the comedy club, work on it or record it that night, take it back to the hotel, listen to it, rewrite it.[00:14:29] After World War II a guy named W. Deming went to Japan to rebuild the Japanese economy, and he had developed something called the Circle of Continuous Quality Improvement. And basically it's a circle that you have an idea, you implement the idea, you put it into your product. Then you ask your customer how they like it and whatever they don't like, you go back to the idea, you improve it, you change the product, you ask the customer again, how do you like it? And that's how Toyota and Honda became two of the biggest auto makers in the world is that back when I was a kid, Toyotas had a connotation of being a junky car, but they kept improving it all over those years. And now they have some of the best quality cars in the world. And so that's what, that was the idea with mine is that you improve it every night.[00:15:22] And it's never done.  My wife is an art teacher and she said that is the sign of a true artist. You are never happy with it. You know, it is never done. I just really rewrote something I've been doing for 16 or 17 years, rewrote the line, took two words out and it, and it's hard to do because I've got it in my memory in a different way, but it works better. So you're constantly improving the material, constantly improving the product. And too many people, too many comedians ,get an hour of material and then quit writing, you know?[00:15:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:15:57] Kent Rader: I don't know how they do this because you could be better. You could, you could do better.[00:16:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Yeah. Well, I think that's something that I've always personally loved about my art form in particular, but all art forms are like this, of there's no way to reach a level of perfection. So you have to continue. You know, it's just not a thing, you can't. And so you just keep striving for excellence and you keep honing your technique and, you know, that means going and making yourself do the technique class by yourself, in your garage. That's me right now, you know, just otherwise you, you are stagnant.[00:16:39]Kent Rader: Your art you're passionate about, and I'm passionate about mine and it is, it is a passion. And so it's not work to me. You know, I, I love the idea that I have two hours or three hours to write. And, the Saturday shows are hard for me because I've usually had a Friday show. And I've traveled after the show to a new hotel and I get in at two or three in the morning, so I sleep there and then I get up and I, I need to run and I need to work. I need to write and I need to get to another show. And, that cuts into my writing time. And I miss that, you know, I miss it. I spend a lot of time backstage once I get to a show and do the soundcheck, I spend another hour writing before it. So it's a, it's it's part of my life and it's an important part about it. It is a big part of my life.[00:17:30]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so to that point, I'm just curious, because since you're constantly working and reworking and all those kinds of things, has there ever been a time where you've had this show memorized and then you're working on something else, do you ever kind of get off flow that way of thinking about the new material?[00:17:48] Kent Rader: Yeah,  I can leave out whole segments of a story, because when you do new material,  you sandwich it in between two pieces you know that work. You know, so you've got this story that you've been doing for five years. It works great. You got another story that you've been doing for seven years. It worked great. So take the new piece and stick it in between the two, because you know, there are only two or three minutes. If I lose the audience, I know I'm going to get them back with the next story. So it's fine, but I can be so focused on that new thing, that the piece in front of it, I can leave out half of it, you know? Because my mind is not there. My mind is on the new, new material. And so Twyla will listen to a recording and she'll go, "Oh my gosh, he left out two whole minutes." I go, "Yeah, I know." It's an odd thing in my mind, what I'm doing . But the audience probably doesn't know that.[00:18:39] One time I had to do a show and they were, had a dinner in front of it and they were struggling to get the dinner served. And the lady said, "You know, we've got stuff after you. And, and so we're going to have to go on." And eating and comedy don't work well together. And so, I said, "OK, it's your show." And they're still eating, so they're not listening. And then after they quit eating, I get them back. And there's a 45 minute show, probably. So 20 minutes of it, they're still eating. And so it's struggles, you know, and then the last 25 minutes everything's great. And she comes up to me and she tells me what a great show it was. I go, "Are you kidding me? You have no idea how good this show could have been had they not been eating." You know?[00:19:22] No, that was just, that's back to me. You know, it's like, you know, it could be a lot better, but back to being paid, you have to do what the person who's paying you. And that's why you're a professional. You know, you have to be able to overcome all of those things that the person who's paying you, the obstacles they throw in front of you... You know, one things I hate to do is take an intermission in a show, because comedy builds on itself, and you have to, it's like starting all over, but I understand that theaters need the revenue from the drinks to survive. And so I'll take an intermission and how I did it was I built a second opening three minutes. So it's like I'm starting all over with a new opening and it work. I don't enjoy it, but the theater and the audience do.[00:20:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and back to Twyla, because I know that she has always been obviously very supportive of what you do, and I think that's incredible, but I just have to ask: so when you run new material by her, is she like your greatest advocate, and just like laughs because she's so supportive, or is she also your greatest critic and says, "Yeah, that's silly."[00:20:33] Kent Rader: She's my greatest critic and I mean that... she and Maggie will tell me the truth. Okay. That's what I need. Everything I write is the greatest thing ever written according to my mother, you know, and that feels good. Because your mother should support you that way, but that's not what helps me. Twyla laughs at -- it's funny-- she laughs at very little at what I say. You know, now she'll laugh at a show because she's with the audience. But when she does laugh at something, then I have to keep it in there. Oh, Stephen King wrote a book called "On Writing," and it's about his process of writing. And he said he had an ideal reader, which is his wife, who is a poet and that's who he writes for. And that's who I write for.  I write to make Twyla laugh.[00:21:22] And if Twyla laughs at it, and Maggie thinks it's good, then I'm good with it. I had a bit about Maggie when she was in high school, and I run everything past my family if it's about them, I run it all past them to ask them if it's okay. 'Cause I wouldn't want to hurt somebody. I wouldn't want to hurt my loved one's feelings for something I've, you know, for a joke. I wrote something about, about Maggie when she was a senior in high school, and she said, "You know, you're fine to do it. It doesn't bother me, but it's not funny." And I thought, "Oh, she's just saying that, you know, she's 18." And so I did it for every night for a month and it tanked every night. And I finally admited to her, "You're right. It isn't funny."[00:22:05] No, but I wrote something the other day and I wrote up a little piece about this woman that spoke at one of the conventions. And she, she said she believed that every household should have one vote in the election. And her quote was, "In a godly household, the man would have the final say." Which is something I completely disagreed with. And my joke is, "I think her husband ought to tell her to shut up." And I thought, and I thought that was way over the line, okay. I said it to Twyla and she laughed out loud and I had to, and I made a comment. So don't blame me. I, I just thought of it, Twyla's the one who laughed, you know? And so it's her fault that it's here. She's a critic in the good way. And Maggie is as well. But I need that. I need that honesty from them and it comes from a place of, they want the best for me. You know, my son Keith is not critical of me. And I think he was afraid he would hurt my feelings. Now he will, and he would speak up if it was something really, really bad. Maggie will tell me the truth and Twyla will tell me the truth and that's what I need.[00:23:14]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, so I'm curious, are there any particular stories that come to mind as far as maybe of your own experience as a comedian, something that happened that comes to mind as being either meaningful or funny or, or whatever? Or from your own perspective of having viewed other art or anything that just like really stands out to you as far as, you know, an interaction with art essentially.[00:23:40] Kent Rader: Like I said, my wife is an art teacher and, so she, she appreciates visual art much more than I do. And that's what I love about your, I cannot fathom how you write a dance. And be able to visualize that in your head of the movement. And I can't understand, I have no concept of how someone takes a landscape or a picture or an idea of somebody's face and then can put that onto a canvas, but Twyla can. And so she loved Georgia O'Keeffe, and we'd go to New Mexico and they have a Georgia O'Keeffe museum. And one, I remember Georgia O'Keeffe said, let's see... "To create one's own world in the arts takes a lot of courage." And I thought that's what it really took for me was a lot of courage to leave a steady job.[00:24:32] And I would never have known that had I not been with Twyla and tried to understand the visual arts of painting and pottery. I love the movement of your art, even though if you've seen me perform, I stand there. I don't move, you know? But one of the things that, that I was, I wrote, let's see, I did a thing about... oh, I know... I did a thing about our grandson playing video games. And so when I perform it on stage, I have my head down and I'm put my thumbs together and I'm punching my thumbs, like a kid playing a video game. And so every time I talk, I'm standing there and then every time I'm having Kai talk, I've got my head down, punching a video games and Maggie saw me on TV one time and said, "Where did you learn about anchoring?"[00:25:29] And I'll go "Anchoring? I don't know anything about anchoring." And she goes, "Oh, that's something that Shakespeare had developed 400 years ago." Was that you? I anchored the character because every time I've got my head down and doing my thumbs, I don't have to say "Kai said this." I just say it because the audience understands why I'm standing there. And so, you know, it's amazing that I came up with an idea that Shakespeare came up with 400 years ago, you know, and she told me all the ways you can anchor. It's through speech or voice or gesture or whatever. And so, I mean, Keith Richards says there's only like 12 songs in the world. Everything else is a offshoot of those 12. And it's amazing though, how we, how we learn sometimes on our own and sometimes from other artists about things. Or the perfection thing I learned quite from, from Twyla talking about that so many artists painters, especially where they've found works after they were dead, that were never finished because their art is never finished.[00:26:37]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Excellent.[00:26:39] Kent Rader: I rambled on.[00:26:42] Lindsey Dinneen: No, no, I love it. And I think that it's interesting because you have a unique background and perspective. And then with having Twyla have bringing in all of her art and then your daughter and son-in-law with their art. And it's just, you've got such a rich atmosphere to work from. And that's really cool.[00:27:03] Kent Rader: It is. And I think that that when you have artists, when you are around artists, you learn from them and you're encouraged by them as well, and you're supported by them. That's one of the things I loved about last year's Fringe Festival was you guys came and saw me and I went and saw you. And I, I love that, that we were supportive enough of each other. And I don't understand your, I mean, I could never do your art. I, one of the musicians did a thing of all new songs and it was beautiful. And it was a beautiful setting and it was beautiful music. And I thought I couldn't do that if, in a thousand years, but I enjoyed it. And I learned from it, I learned from the process. So yeah.  I think it's important we support each other.[00:27:52]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, I absolutely agree. That's something that I've always really appreciated about the Fringe Festival is the atmosphere of we're all in this together and we're just manifesting in different ways essentially. But, I mean, I had a great time. I went to go see Kent and had a great time at his show and then he came to support my show, but we, we all kind of support each other within the community, which is really amazing. And I think that it helps, maybe indirectly, but it helps our own art forms when we can watch and absorb the things that, you know, another artist does so well and you think, "Oh, I wonder how I could utilize that somehow." Or, or for you, maybe you're getting new material because you're watching something, and then that sparks an idea. And, so every little interaction that you have with art can be really impactful in a different way.[00:28:45] Kent Rader: Right. Well, I'm glad you said that because one of the things that every writer and I think probably, I don't know, I'm sure every comedian--we have thousands of little post-it notes everywhere of ideas, you know? And, and when you go see, I always have a notebook with me and a pen, even when I walk or when I am at a show, because that sparks an idea and you think you'll remember it, but you won't. So write it down. And then come back and use it in your own creation. And I, and that has been important. And a lot of mine is junk. I had a post-it note on my car dashboard. And Twyla saw it the other day and she goes, "What does that mean?" And I thought, "Well, I'm not really sure anymore." It was a great idea when I came up with it. I didn't make it detailed enough, I guess.[00:29:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Right, right! Oh my word. But yes, I think that happens to all of us. Well, It's funny because I have a personal antidote of being on the receiving end of this. So, last year after Kent came and saw our production, we ended up being able to connect and get together and actually start forming a friendship, and the first, the first day he brought his--was it your program that you had written all over?--or maybe it was a note, but anyway, I was peppered with questions and I loved it because it was so fun to get to share a little bit more about the process and, and just sort of talk to each other about, "Oh yeah! What do you think about this?" And, but yeah, the notebook is real, folks.[00:30:31] Kent Rader: I'm fascinated with how people write or create, I guess, more importantly. And, and so when I see a show, I was fascinated how you see that. Or do you see, you know, do you see that? Or do you, 'cause I'm so much verbal and all mine is, is in words, but occasionally I will see a movement that I want to do. But not, not an hour, not an hour of total movement of 30 people, so yeah. And how does someone, how does someone come up with that? You know, my brain doesn't work that way.  Thank goodness your brain works that way 'cause it was beautiful.[00:31:15] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. But my brain doesn't work the same way yours does to create your art. So you know, it's all good.[00:31:21] Kent Rader: Yeah. But we can appreciate other art as well.[00:31:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Right, right, exactly. Well, Kent, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're game for that.   The first is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:31:40] Kent Rader: Art, art to me is something that you created that is unique to you. And there's a difference in my mind between art and success. Too many people want to be successful, so they recreate something somebody else has created or they mimic something else that somebody else has created. And that isn't art to me. Success, I mean, how do you define success? You know, it's more important that it's unique and that it's personal to me.  And I remember a turning point in my life as an artist was stop making it about your success and make it about bringing joy and happiness to an audience.  That was a huge turning point, but also it had to be so personal and so come from me. I want it to be so much about my life that nobody else could make it theirs, but they could relate to it as well.[00:32:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:32:54]Kent Rader: I think to bring joy and happiness and a different end, to bring a different perspective, but especially today, we have a lot of difficulty in the world and if we can help someone through that, that's what I think we should be doing.[00:33:09]Lindsey Dinneen: I wholeheartedly agree. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive meaning that the artist shares a little bit about what inspired the art, whether it's a backstory or a title or program notes or something to give a little bit of context to what they're putting out in the world. Versus exclusive referring to an artist creating something and sharing it with the world, but not providing any background. So it's solely up to the participant or viewer to come up with their own interpretation.[00:33:57] Kent Rader: Well, I, I would say inclusive. I can see both points of view, because if you were exclusive, you would want that part, you would want to give them what you've created and let it be theirs then. I find great joy in understanding what went into that. And I think that's probably why I peppered you with all these questions.  I wanted to know what went into that. I'm not a big Eric Clapton fan. But I saw a documentary and how he came up with what "Layla," what the song "Layla" meant to him. He was in love and the woman was married and didn't, you know, it's a difficult situation. And once I heard that, I fell in love with the song, "Layla," you know, and when I hear what went into this piece of art, Maggie's working on something that Charles Dickens wrote and a remake of "Great Expectations." And when she told me what Charles Dickens was going through, "Great Expectations" had a whole different meaning to me than what it had when I read it 30 years ago. And so I think for me, I want people to know what went into that. So yeah, definitely inclusive for me, but I can see both sides of both viewpoints.[00:35:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah. And I love asking all these questions, because like art, it's all subjective and it it's completely up to the person, you know? And I think that's such a valuable thing about art is that there's lots of avenues to enjoy it. [00:35:34] Kent Rader: Right. Yeah, without a doubt.[00:35:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, we don't all have to agree, you know, that's okay.[00:35:41] Kent Rader: If we all agreed, what good is art?[00:35:44]Lindsey Dinneen:  There you go. I once heard that-- and I'm going to blank on his name, but he's an author--and he said that if he doesn't get at least 10% bad reviews of the works that he creates, he feels like he's not been true to himself because if you're everything to everybody, then that's not being honest with who you are. And I really love that.[00:36:04] Kent Rader: Right. You know, I have people come to the show, don't enjoymy shows, and that's okay because I'm not for everybody.  Yeah, there are comedians that I don't enjoy, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be artists and they shouldn't be comedians.[00:36:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, well, Kent, first of all, thank you so very much for joining me and for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your time. I would love, you know, if people could connect with you or see some of your work. I know you have lots of avenues for that. Are there some good ways for any of our listeners to connect with you?[00:36:39] Kent Rader: Yeah, the best way is probably through my website, kentraderspeaks.com. And I do a daily thing on Amazon called "Laughter Matters," which is just a one to two minute piece on something funny that hopefully bring everybody a laugh and so you can look it up on Amazon, on their Daily Flash Briefing. It's called "Laughter Matters." So both of those are great ways. And then, if you go to kentraderspeaks.com, when we get back to performing live, we'll have dates on there as well.[00:37:06]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And you have some clips and things like that too on your website?[00:37:11] Kent Rader: There are, they're on the website. And there's a YouTube channel Comedian Kent Rader that you can see them as well.[00:37:16]Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. Well, thank you again so much, and thank you for being brave and for having taken that big leap of faith, back in the day, so to speak and, and then continuing to  hone and craft your art. I think that you do bring your audiences a lot of joy. I'm privileged to have seen, I think a couple shows now, but I just really appreciate you. And, so, so thank you. Thank you for sharing art with the world.[00:37:43] Kent Rader: Thank you. And the other thing about art is it takes awhile. Don't give up on it. You know, I mean it takes years and that's okay. No matter how long it takes us to do it, it's good. But thank you. Thank you for having me. Like I said, you're always a joy to be around.[00:37:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Thanks! Well, and folks, thank you so much for listening too, and if you have a story to share with us, we'd love to hear that, but also, just if you are as inspired as I am after listening to this episode, I'd love if you'd share with a friend or two and we will catch you next time.[00:38:22] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

In this episode, I welcome Trenna Reed! Trenna is a professional dancer, choreographer, teacher, and the Program Coordinator for the Kansas City Fringe Festival. She shares about the various art forms she's gotten to be a part of, as well as the ins and outs of being on the adminstrative side of the arts.  Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 18 - Trenna ReedLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses, and that you just experience as so beautiful.[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey and I am so excited to have as my guest today, the wonderful Trenna Reed, and Trenna is a artist. She is also, oh my goodness, what should we call you? Like Administrative Organizer Extraordinaire. And there's like an actual job title for you, and I don't want to butcher it, but that's you in my mind...[00:01:00]Trenna Reed:  I usually just say Program Coordinator...[00:01:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, okay! Alright![00:01:03] Trenna Reed: To put a name to it.[00:01:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect.[00:01:05] Trenna Reed: It's basically like, I would say an assistant to the ever fabulous Cheryl Kimmi.[00:01:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yes. And we'll definitely share a little bit more about that. But also Trenna is an accomplished dancer, choreographer and teacher, and is a lover of the arts in general. And she shares them with the world in a pretty unique way and in kind of an administrative capacity for the Kansas City Fringe Festival. And so I am so excited to have you on. Thank you, Trenna, for joining us today.[00:01:40] Trenna Reed: Yes, of course. I'm very excited to be here.[00:01:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and I'd love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe what kind of different arts you dabble in and just, yeah, share with us who you are. Thank you.[00:01:54] Trenna Reed: Absolutely. Well, art is in my family in several capacities. So my mother is a dance teacher and we still teach dance together to this day, which is really amazing. It's one of my favorite ways to pass the time. And her mother was also a dance teacher and her aunt was a dance teacher. They each had their own studios. So it definitely runs in the family. My aunt was a dance teacher. She recently retired. And my other aunt, this is all on my mom's side, by the way, my other aunt was also a dance teacher early on, and then she transitioned to, I think, teaching English. And I still teach dance. My father, on the other hand, this is how art is also in our family. He was involved in theater and he's a wonderful singer. So he passed that ability to sing onto me. So I did choir and everything like that, all throughout elementary, middle, and high school. And, I still sing whenever I can just not as often. I was trying to get back into voice lessons before all of this craziness started.[00:03:17] So hopefully after it's calmed down a little bit, I can get back into that as well. And my father actually got his singing from his father. So that trait has been on my father's side of the family. And I was also, as far as other arts that I've been involved in, I've also been involved in theater. I love acting, I haven't been able to pursue it as much lately, but I did theater all throughout high school, and I was in a play in college as well. It was an awesome experience because not a lot of dancers at my college got to be involved in, you know, straight plays.[00:04:02] So that, that was a really cool experience to go back and revisit that art form in college.  What else am I missing? Oh, I have a four and a half month old daughter named Sage. And she is just wonderful and, you know, has kind of put everything into perspective for me. I feel like it kind of makes art that much more meaningful because I want to pass on my love of art and the importance of it, that concept to her. 'Cause it really shaped my life. So I'm hoping that it can shape hers as well.[00:04:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. And so when you're not teaching... so, so I guess what else do you do? Well, we got your job title earlier, but tell us a little bit about your involvement in the Kansas City Fringe Festival and that job that you have too.[00:05:02] Trenna Reed: Sure. So actually for the Fringe Festival, my first year, I started off in, I would say a lighter capacity, as the head of ticket sales, which is called Fringe 411. So, that was my title the first year. And that was really all I worked on, 'cause it's very time consuming. And then, I kind of just stayed involved with the organization throughout the year after that. And then when it came back around time to do the festival in 2019, I was in a position where I could step up and on a larger role. And Cheryl's program coordinator had left 'cause she got a job offer somewhere else and started to go in a different direction with her career.[00:05:55] So Cheryl asked me to kind of step up at least, you know, we weren't sure if it was going to be temporary until she found someone else, 'cause I still have other jobs too. So I wasn't, I didn't know if I could take on the program coordinator position full on, but I was at least going to step in for a little while until they figured out if they could find someone else to fill that slot on the team. So last year was my first year as Program Coordinator for the Fringe Festival. And I learned a lot. I continue to learn. There are so many aspects to putting on a festival and, when I was in college, I was on the performance track. So I didn't have a ton of opportunities to do behind-the-scenes work, besides the costuming work that I did.[00:06:53] And working for the Fringe Festival has really allowed me to take on some more of those management roles, which I, I enjoy. I do. I didn't think that I would be that type of person to be in an administrative role, but it's really gratifying at the end of everything. And, you know, it teaches you patience and communication skills, to say the least.[00:07:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah.[00:07:26] Trenna Reed: Yeah. It's just, it's been an amazing experience. And I mean, this time around will be a whole different animal because of everything going on. So everything's kind of up in the air with the festival right now, but, you know, the way things are going, unless we have to shut back down again, I think we'll be able to do the festival in some capacity.[00:07:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Great.[00:07:52] Trenna Reed: Whether that's trying to do some things virtually or just condensing it to like two weekends, we're going to try and think of creative ways to keep it going. 'Cause we really don't want to just have to shut it down completely for this year and lose that momentum, right?[00:08:11]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and, just to give our audience some perspective who might not be familiar with the Fringe Festival, do you mind sharing some stats about the magnitude of what the Fringe Festival typically is, as far as all the different groups you're trying to organize and coordinate? [00:08:31] Trenna Reed: Yeah, for sure.[00:08:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, ' cause that's amazing.[00:08:35] Trenna Reed: Yeah. I can definitely give you some ballpark. I can't think off the top of my head of what attendance is, but our festival is a pretty large festival. There's lots of different Fringe Festivals around the world. Some of them are really tiny and some of them are huge. Like Orlando Fringe is one of the biggest in the US, and I think put on something like 150 shows or something, or 150 different productions, which is crazy. We do around 75 productions. So that means there's 75 different performance groups or performers. If it's just a one person show, and each of those shows has usually five slots in which they perform. So we're coordinating, you know, 75 times five--I can't do that math in my head how many actual individual shows--and then we usually work with, I would say, between 500 and 750 artists within that. So, I didn't realize it was that many people until I was trying to go through and get some demographics. For our grant writers, we have to kind of go into detail about, you know, how many people are involved, how many artists are involved, our attendance, things like that. So I was going through and looking at all of the waivers that the performers have to fill out out. And I was like, "Oh my God, I didn't realize we have over, easily over 500 people involved in this festival, just on the performing side."[00:10:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.[00:10:23] Trenna Reed: Yeah, it's, it's crazy. And it runs for 10 days. And, you know, we'll usually--like the first, well, I guess technically two weeks--because we start off with our visual arts, which is also another component of it. So that's adding another, I think like around 50 people, but another component of it that we're coordinating at the same time. And, you know, we've actually been trying to grow that aspect of it a little bit more. We don't want the visual artists to feel like they're in the background. So we usually start off with our visual arts opening. And that'll be usually--I think on a Sunday is when we usually do it. And then the following Friday is when the actual performances start for the festival and then the performances will go for 10 days. So it's a lot. We have a lot of volunteers that help and we wouldn't be able to do it without our amazing volunteer base.[00:11:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it is an undertaking. I commend you for your patience and your adaptability, because so much that you guys do and pour into that festival every year. So yes.[00:11:46] Trenna Reed: You have to have some sort of faith in humanity to be able to do that.[00:11:52] Lindsey Dinneen: That seems, that seems right. Oh my goodness. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And, I know you probably have like a zillion stories just from the festival, from your own art experiences, but does anything kind of stand out as something you wanted to share today?[00:12:11] Trenna Reed: Hmm, I'm trying to think of specifically for the festival, because there's so much happening every day during the festival. And, well, this is, so I just saw-- this was a social media post on Mother's Day, and this is just like a little story to put it into perspective how hard our director for the festival works. So her birthday is June, I think it's June 12th? Or sometime around then. And, she was, I think, out to eat with her family. And her son, Brent, posted that she had forgotten that it was her birthday.[00:12:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.[00:12:59] Trenna Reed: And I mean, this is, you know, par for the course for Cheryl, because she works so hard and never stops that she'll forget it's her birthday...[00:13:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my word...[00:13:11]Trenna Reed:  ...until her family reminds her. I mean, because that's about a month away until the festival is opening.  So we're getting pretty into the thick of it at that point.[00:13:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Right.[00:13:22] Trenna Reed: So, I mean, I have lots of little stories like that about Cheryl and she's just a peach. She's best. And I, we all love working for her and she is the heart and soul of the festival and her positive energy just exudes and it shapes the experience of the festival. And, she's always kind and patient, but she also knows when she has to draw the line and give tough love sometimes. So I think finding the balance for that is one of her strengths.[00:14:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think so too. She is a remarkable woman. And yeah, I'm a huge fan. I think everyone who meets her are. You know, it's because she's just, like you said, she she's so kind and she's so inclusive, and then when she needs to put her foot down, she can. But until that time, she's just the loveliest, so much fun. I just, I love her. Yeah.[00:14:34] Trenna Reed: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I was just thinking of another, like, this is just kind of a glimpse into what it's like behind the scenes. So,  when we're, like at the end of the night, what we do is we tally--well, that's a simplistic way to put it--but we figure out the ticket sales, and try and make sure that everything balances out, 'cause we keep track of the attendance of each show. 'Cause at the end of the festival, we handout the Best Of awards. And currently the Best Of is based on attendance for your show. So, you know, whoever has the most attendance for a certain venue wins best of that venue. So what we have to do at the end of each night is we have to count all the money, count all the tickets that we've received, see how many comps were used. And when we got down to the end of the festival and we're trying to figure out Best Of we were--you know, it's like 11:45 at night, and we're trying to get it out by midnight. But our last show for the night ended at, I think, 11:30. So, we're waiting for the last envelopes of the ticket tallies to come back and there's a couple of shows that are within one person in the audience to determine who won. And, I mean, it was like that for several of them.[00:16:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow.[00:16:13] Trenna Reed: So, and you know, sometimes the numbers don't add up and we're just like, I don't know if this is accurate, or how we can make sure that we have the most accurate count because the numbers aren't adding up.[00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: So because you know, they're cross referencing. Is that correct? Sorry to interrupt, but just for context with somebody who doesn't know, 'cause you're cross referencing, from the usher count versus ticket sales or? Okay.[00:16:38] Trenna Reed: Correct.[00:16:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.[00:16:40] Trenna Reed: So we have the usher count and then we use our online ticket platform called Ticketleap. And some of our volunteers are not as familiar with technology. So sometimes they have issues getting everything entered into Ticketleap. And it's also stressful for them when they're trying to get people checked in and seated. So sometimes they don't have time to enter it in as accurately as possible. So, it's just a lot of different factors going into it that can affect the way the numbers turn out at the end. [00:17:16] Lindsey Dinneen: So I know that it's been close a few years, but oh my goodness, I can't believe within maybe one audience member. It's that close? Oh, my word that's amazing.[00:17:27] Trenna Reed: It was, it was stressful. I think we got the numbers out close to midnight. I honestly don't remember. I was probably delirious by that point.[00:17:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yes. Let's let's talk about Trenna for a second, folks. So, okay. So I had met Trenna-- because my company also performs at the Fringe Festival--so I had met Trenna briefly, but then we didn't actually, like, sit down and have a conversation until I think August, maybe?[00:18:01] Trenna Reed: Yeah, it was the beginning of August.[00:18:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And so, and you know, and at that time, I found out she was pregnant. She shared that with me. And I just remember thinking like, "What? You just literally changed your entire sleep schedule for the Fringe Festival, because first of all, that is like 14 days of chaos." Oh my word. And then she's pregnant and she's such a powerhouse, still wants to keep, you know, doing all the things and, you know, up until her due date. So speaking of that, I was privileged enough to have Trenna as one of the choreographers for my company's Nutcracker production, which we called "Cracked!" And, so it was an original show, all original choreography to kind of celebrate Kansas City. So it's a little more unique in that way. And, Trenna is choreographing and setting the choreography and is at our shows being our Backstage Coordinator. And she's amazing. And--okay-- and she's taking our warmup classes. And how, how much time did you have left before you were about to get birth?[00:19:12] Trenna Reed: I had about two and a half weeks. I felt pretty good. So I tried to keep active. Actually I'd say that the first trimester, I mean, you know, the first trimester is usually comparable with the third in that it's pretty hard. But I would say like my energy level was definitely lower for the first trimester than it was for the third. And I mean, you know, I just had so many things going on in November and December, so I didn't really have a choice.[00:19:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.[00:19:52] Trenna Reed: You know, well, and my husband had to kind of put into perspective that I needed to slow down because I'm not good at taking care of myself in that sense, because I feel better when I stay busy. But sometimes I get to the point where I don't know how to balance my life because I try and make myself so busy. So, I was going to try and keep teaching until like, I think a week before my due date, or maybe like a week and a half before, and finally, you know, I was getting so tired from everything that was going on. And then he had to have a serious conversation with me and was like, you can't keep just going on like normal. So I'm really glad that he helped me put that into perspective because I needed that wake up call.[00:20:48] Lindsey Dinneen: No, literally, folks, she seriously is a super woman. She shows up to every show that we did and our dress rehearsal and she's wearing heels, okay, looks stunning, of course, takes the ballet warmup class, and the. Does all the backstage coordinating and in theory, literally could give birth at any time. Like, yeah, just amazing.[00:21:14] Trenna Reed: Can we talk about your sister, though?[00:21:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah.[00:21:18] Trenna Reed: I had no idea that what she was, what, seven and a half months pregnant at that time? I, I, well, I mean, once I found out that she was pregnant, I was like, "Maybe she's like four or five months pregnant?" No, no. Seven months pregnant. Wow. I can't imagine doing Sugar Plum and being seven months pregnant.[00:21:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, okay. So my sister is another superwoman. Yeah. She danced one of the quintessential roles of the Nutcracker which is basically the Sugar Plum Fairy role. We called it something different in our show, but, on pointe, plus she did Snow. Plus she was in all the group scenes, right? Like all the party scenes and Flowers, which was an insane dance. I'm just going to throw that out there. Yeah, I choreographed it. I can say that.[00:22:08] Trenna Reed: Standing backstage and watching everyone on the side of the stage, like, heaving for breaths, you know, and Sophie had like some respiratory issues going on. She had to take her inhaler backstage. And I was like, I have been there. I know how that feels. I had to do that in that, I was the Sugar Plum for our production when my dance studio did the Nutcracker, and in between like the, variation and the Coda I had to take a couple puffs of my inhaler to get through it.[00:22:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I mean, so the Nutcracker is probably a difficult ballet for anyone involved, but with a smaller company, I mean, I make this joke, but it's, it's reality--you're either dancing or you're changing. There's no downtime. So as soon as those first notes of the, you know, opening number happen, you just...two hours, well, I don't know if it's quite two hours, but an hour and a half of like cardio. Yes. Yeah. And my sister's doing this seven and a half months pregnant and rocking it. It was a miracle. But anyway. Yeah. So I'm just curious, Trenna, is there like one thing that you maybe were surprised by, or that you learned? You know, that could be like anything about art or about organization or people or whatever, like something that's kind of stood out as maybe like unexpected when you started taking over the coordination of the Fringe Fest .[00:23:41] Trenna Reed: I think the thing that's surprised me the most is just, you know, I'm so used to being on the performing side of it and I just, I get so much joy from that. I never knew that you can get the same kind of feeling when you're working behind the scenes for something as well. Because, you know, I would just describe--like when I'm on stage, I just feel like a different part of my soul has awakened. I'm getting really deep here, but that's the best way I can describe it. And towards the end of the festival, when we've done all the grunt work and everything is kind of coming together, it's that same feeling where I feel like the artist in me has come to the forefront, and it makes you fall in love with your art form even more. Or fall in love with, I guess, the Fringe Festival and what it represents, even more. Yeah, I just, I was surprised that I could get that Feeling from being a Program Coordinator as well.[00:24:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I can relate, and that is really interesting. And that's great to know too, about yourself, that you do have so many different, I dunno, ways to--when you engage in the arts in general, you have then multiple avenues that allow you to feel that joy, which is awesome. Yeah, that's really cool.[00:25:17] Trenna Reed: Absolutely. And, you know, I felt that same thing with costuming when my Alma Mater asked me to come back and fill in for the Costume Mistress position at Oklahoma City University for the dance program, because their costume mistress was having her second baby. And I had worked in the costume shop, while I was there getting my degree for my work study, and I had been heavily involved in that costume shop and knew the way that it operated and was familiar with the staff. So they asked me to come back and head that up for a couple of months. And, I was super nervous because the extent of my costuming was being involved in dance and theater and being around costumes, knowing how to sew once I got to college and the work that I had done in the costume shop. Besides that, I don't really have a background in like costume design or anything like that.[00:26:18]So I was just kind of going in there and winging it. And, it was a really, really great feeling at the end of it, knowing that I had, helped to create and manage this amazing team, 'cause the students that work in the costume shop, I would not have been able to do that job if they had not been there to lead each other and really step up to the plate while the Costume Mistress was gone. And you know, I got that same feeling, watching the shows and watching the costumes on stage and seeing everything come to fruition, I guess. And knowing that I had made some of the decisions that contributed to the costumes working. So that, that was a really incredible experience too. And, you know, I don't know if I'll ever be like the costume designer or anything like that. I thought about exploring that avenue as well, but maybe that'll be something that I try to delve into a little bit more later in life. But you know, it was that same feeling of the artist in me awakening, I guess.[00:27:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And representing in a different way than, you know, than you had really explored before.[00:27:49] Trenna Reed: Yeah, exactly.[00:27:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's really neat. Well, thank you so much for sharing just about your experience. And I love hearing behind-the-scenes stories and, just, you know, it's so funny-- it's wonderful as an audience member, you get to kind of see the final picture and you don't get to see necessarily everything that goes into it. But I, I love the real talk of behind-the-scenes, 'cause there's a lot to it and it can get messy and it can, and it's difficult, but you look at the end result and you're like, wow, that's, that's pretty cool.[00:28:26] Trenna Reed: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a gratifying experience.[00:28:30]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah, absolutely. Well, I just have a couple questions that I like to ask my guests, if you don't mind me asking you. Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:28:46] Trenna Reed: Hmm, I would say art is human expression, because I guess the way that I think about it is, of all the species on this planet, as far as we know, humans are really the only ones who can convey art and understand art. I guess dogs can watch TV, but you know, they don't really comprehend what's going on, so that, I would say, it's a human expression. And, for me it's just, it's art is love and passion, and it's how we express those emotions or any emotions, which is such an important part of being a human being.[00:29:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:29:53] Trenna Reed: Hmm.  I think probably connecting to the audience, whether it be the person looking at your painting, or the person watching you perform, or watching the movie you created, just finding some way to connect to the people who are consuming that art.[00:30:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That is a very unique answer. I've never heard somebody describe it like that before, and I think that's incredibly important. Thank you.[00:30:33] Trenna Reed: Yeah.[00:30:34] Lindsey Dinneen: And then my final question, and then I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So what I mean by that is exclusive kind of referring to an artist creates something, they share it with the world and then they let the world interpret it the way that they will. So they don't really provide context. Maybe there's not a title, maybe you don't know the inspiration behind it. Versus inclusive where the artist does share something. So maybe it's program notes or maybe it's a description, or the inspiration behind. It is basically some context so that the audience has a hint of what's going on.[00:31:16] Trenna Reed: Right. That's a good question, but I really think it depends on, it depends on the artist and it depends on the audience or the consumer of the art. Because, I mean, for me, sometimes I do like getting that context and it helps me understand what's going on better. And I feel like I have a better experience with that art form when I have that insight. But on the other hand, like, you know, like for instance, last night I was watching a  show called Ray Donovan on, I think it's on Showtime. And there was a part where he picked up a Bible. And when he turned to the front of it, you see a cross. And then in the song that was playing, you hear an organ, they just kind of like snuck that in there as a sort of symbolism, and connecting the music to what was on screen. And it was cool for me to make that discovery on my own, as opposed to being told, "Hey, we put this in here because of this." You know what I mean?[00:32:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely.[00:32:33] Trenna Reed: So I think it depends on the person looking or experiencing the art, and how that artist wants to connect with their audience. Do they want them to figure it out on their own because it will be more meaningful that way? Or is it so abstract that they need some sort of context to be able to fully grasp and appreciate that art?[00:33:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That makes complete sense to me. Well, thank you again so much, Trenna, for being my guest today. I really appreciate it. And I just want to say on behalf of myself, but not just on behalf of myself, on behalf of the world, I really appreciate that you share your art with the world, whether that's you're dancing, you're choreographing, teaching. But just all the ways that you bring art to the world world, even, you know, singing or costume design and, and administration, the organization of it is so important. And so I just want to say thank you because when you bring that to the world, I think you make it a more beautiful place. So I appreciate that you share, and yeah.[00:33:45] Trenna Reed: Thank you so much.[00:33:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Well, thank you also, everyone who has listened to this episode, if you feel as inspired as I do, I would love for you to share it with maybe a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.[00:34:02]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much! And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

In this episode, I welcome Liza Lomax! She is the founder of Love Your Body Coaching, and helps women fully accept and embrace themselves. She shares several stories about how art has not only impacted and inspired her own life, but also that of her clients' lives as well. As an empath, Liza is highly intuitive and discusses how that impacts her relationship with art.  Get in touch with Liza Lomax: https://www.facebook.com/liza.lomax | www.lizalomax.com | www.instagram.com/lizalomax | www.twitter.com/liza_lomax Support Artfully Told: www.paypal.me/elevateart Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 17 - Liza LomaxLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told! I'm Lindsey, and I am very delighted to have as my guest today, Liza Lomax, and she is a coach, but she, that just like barely scratches the surface. And I'm so excited to share her with you today because she has an incredible story about her own trajectory, which led her to be a coach, but also just in general, her life story is incredible. And her stories about how art has kind of been weaving through her life is also incredible. And I'm just so excited that you're here, Liza. So thank you for joining us today.[00:01:12] Liza Lomax: Thank you for having me. I'm super excited.[00:01:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Awesome. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about yourself and your story or what kind of, however you want to introduce who you are? I would love that![00:01:26] Liza Lomax: For sure. So I'm a body image coach. My business is called Love Your Body Coaching. What is that? So I help women go from self-loathing to self-loving. I help women be able to look at themselves naked in the mirror and fully, truly, madly, deeply accept themselves and love themselves as the reflection that they see staring back at them.[00:01:50]I have my own personal transformation story. It is quite a story, but we don't have hours and hours, so I will condense it a little bit for everybody. As a teenager, I suffered from two EDs [eating disorders]. I suffered from anorexia and overeating, so binge eating, and I went from one end of the spectrum to the other. And by the time I was 26, I weighed 300 pounds. I was borderline diabetic. I had high cholesterol. I had high blood pressure. I had a two year old at the time and the doctor told me that if I didn't lose weight, I wasn't going to live to see him turn five. And again, he was two at the time. So I was like, well, I want to live to see my son. So I'll lose the weight.[00:02:37]Now I came from a very religious background, a very religious household. And, you know, as all children, when right away when we're little we're, you know, when we're told they have to look a certain way and dress a certain way and act a certain way and be a certain way. And when we're not those ways, we try to fix them. And that's where that not good enough story starts. And then it, you know, harbors is in our brains until there until we're an adult. And then that's all we think about is that we're not good enough. We're not special enough. We're not beautiful enough or not pretty enough. We're not this, we're not that.[00:03:10] And I really had that not-good-enough story really just stick in my brain so ingrainly deeply in there that I just, I didn't care about myself. I didn't love myself. I literally hated myself. I had low self esteem. I would look in the mirror and I would hate the person that was staring back at me. I suffered from body dysmorphia. And so I literally would see a monster in the mirror when I did look in the mirror. And so when I was 300 pounds and I was sitting in the doctor's office and he's telling me I've got to die. I'm like, okay, well, I got to do something. So I lost 105 pounds in 13 months.[00:03:52] However, I didn't change my mindset and I continue to yo-yo over and over and over. I still had those same behaviors with same habits, so same limiting beliefs. And it took me probably about five or six years later. I literally hit rock bottom. And I was addicted to diet pills. I was a heavy drinker. I did things to my body nobody should ever do to themselves. I had such a low self esteem. I hated myself, hated everything about me. I put myself in situations where I should have been killed, and whether you believe in God, higher source, higher power, whatever you believe--I really believe that God just was telling me that I needed to change and something needed to give.[00:04:34] And because I've been a people pleaser, I've been a doormat, I've been a caregiver. I have taken care of everybody around me. I'm a lover of love. I love people. I love to give myself and I've given so much of myself to everybody else that I've never given myself myself. If that makes sense. I've never given anything to me. And I've never loved myself. Truly madly, deeply loved myself. And so it sent me on this mission to find me, to find my authentic self, to find who I am, to love myself, to heal all those wounds, to reframe, retrain those limiting beliefs, those behaviors, those stories that I created, you know, since I was a child. And, you know, create new habits, new beliefs and new behaviors.[00:05:21] And, so I went in, got certified in multiple, a multitude of different things and, you know, and went and studied every self help book and every guru and everybody out there. And so I had all these tools in my toolbox because I knew that there were other women out there that struggled. There are other women out there that needed my help. And because I'm such a lover of love and lover of people, I knew my mission in this world was to love people and was to give love and show people how to love, and show women how to love themselves, just the way they are. And through all this process, art was really incorporated in my life. And I never really thought about it because it was just, it came second nature to me. And, when I was 14, I started writing poetry. And I channel a lot, so I'm an empath. I'm highly intuitive, and so I channel a lot of people's emotions, including my emotions, by myself.[00:06:17] So writing was a huge thing for me. Writing poetry was a huge thing for me and during some really, really dark times, I noticed I found this love for painting, and so I would paint. I used painting as a way to express my emotions and to get them out. So for me, it was like a way of getting them out of my, out of my body, and putting them somewhere else so that I didn't have to hold onto them anymore. That was my way of releasing it. Everybody has their own way of releasing things. That was my way of releasing. And I really felt that it really helped me. It was very beneficial for me and really helped me get through some really dark times. And, now I use that, I incorporate it in my coaching. I use that as a healthy, emotional outlet to go to when you're struggling or when you have something, you know, you need to release those emotions. Art and drawing and painting and writing are great ways to release those emotions. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.[00:07:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you.[00:07:25] Liza Lomax: Yes, you're very welcome. Thank you.[00:07:28]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So your story is just incredibly powerful. And I love the fact that now you are taking, obviously a very difficult journey that you've been through, to empower not only yourself, but other women who probably have gone through very similar things and felt, you know, very similarly and and I just think that's an incredible gift that you're giving.   I would love to dive a little bit deeper into some of the ways that art has had an impact in your journey. If you don't mind, if any stories come to mind as to, maybe specifically, if there's anything in particular that kind of stands out as being truly helpful in that journey. And, and I know before we started recording, we had talked about how you even encourage in your coaching this to be an outlet. So I'm just, I'm super curious to hear a little bit more about that if that's okay.[00:08:22] Liza Lomax: Oh yeah, for sure! And actually one story comes to mind. I, you know, not only went through a lot of stuff. I also had a lot of toxicity in my life and I had a lot of people, places and things is what I call them. And I went from one abusive relationship to another and in different ways of abusiveness. And I remember this one time that I started painting again. And it was a picture of--in my head, I had this picture of me standing in darkness and all I had was a little, a little bitty lamp. And I was holding onto this lamp and there was just this little bit of glimmer of light. And there was all this darkness around me and it symbolized what my life was like at that time. And I had a lot of darkness around me. I had a lot of toxicity in my life. I was in a very abusive relationship, mentally and not physically, but mentally and emotionally abusive. And I remember I'm painting this thing and I remember that person coming up and ridiculing me about this painting in this picture, that it looks like something that I'm, I'm not going to say on, on this call, but referenced it being something just really disgusting and in a space that just was not good. And, I could have easily scratched it and ripped it up and tore it away or threw it away.[00:09:55] You know, I could have easily have done something like that, which my past self probably would have. Because I'm like, "Oh, well I don't live up to this person's expectations." So I'm just gonna, I'm just going to do something else. But no, I had the mindset that, no, I'm going to finish this painting 'cause it's something that I need to do and I need to get it out. And if you could just envision a little girl, standing in a big dark forest and all that she has is the little light in her lamp. And, that was the picture--was just this, all this darkness around but I knew that there was some light at the end of the tunnel.  And I knew that I was going to get through whatever the situation that I was in at the time I was going to get through it because I had my light and whether it was super, super tiny, it didn't matter, 'cause it was still light in that darkness.[00:10:47]Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Do you still have that painting?[00:10:51]Liza Lomax: It's somewhere in storage.[00:10:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah?[00:10:54] Liza Lomax: 'Cause we travel me and my partner travel a lot, so it's in storage somewhere, but...[00:11:00] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm glad you kept it.[00:11:03] Liza Lomax: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it, yeah, it was a very pivotal time and in my life at that time, when I drew that. Yeah, very memorable to me.[00:11:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And so I know that you also encourage your clients to use art as an outlet. Do you mind sharing a little bit more about that?[00:11:25] Liza Lomax: Yeah. So in my program, there's a module that we go through called Healthy Emotional Outlets. And whether it's EFT or whether it's energy healing work, whether it's exercising, some of the other things I've incorporated are music and drawing and painting and writing. And, one of the things I encourage right away when my clients start a program with me is to start journaling and start writing. Writing for me has always been a huge impact. And, so writing right away and using art as a way to get your emotions out and to be able to--cause some, I mean, we don't, we're emotional beings. I mean, we base every choice, every decision, everything that we make is on emotions. And you know, a lot of times we're told that we can't show our emotions and we can't be emotional and you know, "I'll give you something to cry about."[00:12:24] You know? I mean, there's these things that we're told that when our kids that we know we can't, we can't do these things. And so we grow up pushing our emotions down and down and down, and we have such a hard time releasing those. And so using art as a way to release those emotions is huge. It's very impactful because if you don't know how to release them, I really believe that art is a good way of releasing those emotions.[00:12:52] Lindsey Dinneen: And when you encourage your clients to use that as an outlet, which I love--I'm super biased as an artist myself--but I love that you do that, because it can make such a difference--is it something where do you ever get any kind of pushback where people think, "Well, I'm not an artist or, you know, I, I can't draw or I can't paint." Or is that part of like a mindset that you're also working to help kind of overcome? The "I can't" or "I don't" kind of thing associated with art?[00:13:24] Liza Lomax: Yes, because yes, we can do things. We just choose not to do them. So I tell people I'm like, you can do something, you just choose not to do them. And you know, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. It's there and everybody always gives it a least a chance, a go. And I love it when I hear people say that they can't draw or they can't sing. And it's like, well, first of all, you can sing. It just might not be very good. And you can draw. It just might not be very good. So, you know, saying that you can't do something is not true. It's never true because you can do it. Just so, so it doesn't matter whether it doesn't look good to you or to somebody else or to whomever. You're still getting that out and still getting those emotions out and still releasing what you need to release. So I don't believe in the word "I can't." It's always, you choose not to.[00:14:22] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. I love that so much. Oh my goodness. Yeah, because I think it's so important--and I love the way that you worded it--it is so important that we go into something that new for us. And maybe we've never expressed ourselves in that way before, but we go into it saying it's possible. I might not be very good at it, but that doesn't-- it shouldn't decrease even the attempt at it. I mean, I'm not brilliant at drawing, but I'll do it. I can kind of draw a little bit, some stick figures.[00:14:57] Liza Lomax: Right, right! If it's a whole, a whole page of stick figures. Okay. So be it. That's your art. It's okay. Art is art is art is art. It doesn't matter what it is.[00:15:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. I love it. Yes. So do you personally continue to engage in the arts? I mean, are you still kind of active as an artist? I know different seasons lead to different things, but, are you still kind of enjoying arts as well?[00:15:24] Liza Lomax: Yes. I mean, all the time I'm constantly doodling or writing. You know, something comes to my mind, I'll write it down. So, but with all the arts, you know, I did theater for 15 years and that was a huge impact in my life as well. I've always incorporated lots of art into my world. And, music is also a huge form of the arts and going and listening to music and really listening to the melodies and the silence behind it. And that has an impact on how you feel too. Music is a huge thing too, for me. I still doodle, I still draw. I travel a lot, so I can't always just sit and get an easel up and start painting, but when I get an opportunity, I'll take it.[00:16:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing about your own life journey and sharing about what you're doing now and how you're helping people. And all of that is so wonderful. So thank you for sharing that with us. I really appreciate it.[00:16:29] Liza Lomax: Thank you.[00:16:30] Lindsey Dinneen: And, I would love if it's okay with you, I always ask the same three questions to my guests. So I'm just curious about your opinions on them, if you're okay with that.[00:16:40] Liza Lomax: Yes, for sure.[00:16:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:16:48]Liza Lomax: Oh, wow. That's a good question. Oh, how would I, how would you describe it? To me, art is an emotion. it's anger. It's sadness. It's happy. It's frustration. It's irritation. It's gratefulness. It's blessings. When I look at art, I can feel what the artist was portraying at that time because I'm an empath. So looking at art is very impactful for me because I can see it and I can feel what the person was trying to express or trying to convey. You know, there's so many pieces of artwork where people are like, they don't understand it. They don't get it. Like, what is this? It looks just like a bunch of jumbly blobs on a canvas, and I can look at it and I can see what they were feeling and what they were doing and how they were--what they were trying to convey through the art. So to me, it's--art is emotions. If that makes any sense.[00:17:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It absolutely does. That's a great answer and a unique one. I haven't heard it expressed quite like that before, so I love it. Thank you. Okay. So what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:18:07]The most important role of an artist... being themselves and being their authentic selves. I think, you know, artists take a risk at everything that they do because you could be easily rejected or easily accepted. And if you show your authenticity through your work in anything that you do, not just art, but I mean, we're talking about art right now, but to show your authenticity through your work, makes it very valuable.[00:18:38]That's another great answer. Okay. And my last question, and I'll define my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So by inclusive, I'm referring to an artist who, when they share their art with the world, that you know a little bit of context behind it now. So whether that's a title or program notes or what inspired this piece or whatever. So you have a little bit of context going into it as an audience or as a observer. Versus exclusive being the artist shares their work and doesn't necessarily provide any context to it and just lets the observer take from it what they will, if that makes sense.[00:19:28]Liza Lomax: I, so when I go into a museum, I go in and I see art. I don't read the little note cards or the little things, the little plaques next to it, because I like to see the art for what it really is, and I don't like to be influenced on what, where, what time it was done or what year it was done or who it was done by, or what the explanation was. So I like to look at it and just look at it for the actual art. I don't read anything about the artists. So I would say exclusive, because it's like, to me, I want to see the art. I don't necessarily need to know about the history or the background or why it was created. I just want to see just the art.[00:20:15]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. All right. Excellent. Well, and you have a really unique perspective, I think too, because like you shared with us earlier--when you look at a piece of art or experience art, you are able to draw from it emotions and feelings and all those kinds of things that maybe someone who isn't as empathic would find. So that's a pretty unique perspective too, which I love. So, yeah! Well, again, thank you so much for being a part of this. Is there a way for us to get in contact with you and learn more if anyone would like to do so?[00:20:54] Liza Lomax: Yes. So I am, of course, on all the platforms. I'm on Facebook under Liza Lomax. I'm on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. My website's being redesigned right now but you can check it out and check more of my story out. It's just lizalomax.com. But the best way to get ahold of me is probably Facebook. And then, my email address is just lizalomax77@gmail.com.[00:21:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you, Liza. Well, thank you also to all of you who are listening to this episode, and if you're feeling as inspired as I am at the moment, I would love for you to share it with a friend or two, and please feel free to get in touch with Liza. She is absolutely wonderful as you can tell from just this brief conversation with her. Obviously she has a lot to share with the world and give, and we will catch you next time.[00:21:52] Do you have a story to share with us? We would love that so much, and I hope your day has been Artfully Told.

In this episode, I welcome Elna VanGreuning! Elna graces us with a masterclass on the history of lace and lacemaking, from its very beginnings to how we can get involved today. Originally from South Africa, Elna brings her rich knowledge of lace and her own experiences in lacemaking to dive deep into one of the loveliest art forms.  The International Organization of Lace: https://internationalorganizationoflace.org/Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off all purchases! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 16 - Elna VanGreuningLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna VanGreuning: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey, and I am so excited to share with you a wonderful, wonderful guest that I get to have on my episode today. Her name is Elna VanGreuning, and she is originally from South Africa. And I'll let her tell you a little bit more about herself, but I have the privilege to call her my aunt adopted. I had the privilege of growing up, and getting to know her, and have many, many fond memories of spending afternoons at her lovely house, having tea, learning the correct way to have tea.  I just am so blessed to have her in my life, but I am extremely excited to share her with you all today. She is a very, very accomplished woman in many avenues. And one of the things that she does is lace making. And so I'm just thrilled to hear all of her stories about that. So thank you so much for joining us today.[00:01:36]Elna VanGreuning: Thank you, Lindsey. I feel honored that you even invited me for this. Yes, I'm from South Africa, but I've been in the US now almost 26 years. I'm also a US citizen. So I am very much American and love living in the Reston area. So a little bit about my life, in how I got involved in that. Way back in 1975, when I was a young school teacher, a friend of mine, in the middle of the country that actually taught lace classes and she started with that. And then we got married in 1976 and she made us a beautiful lace handkerchief embroidered with all the details.[00:02:26] So that's how I initially even got to know about lace, and how you make lace. Previous to that, I was in Belgium in 1974 and I went to Bruges and Brussels and saw all the beautiful lace, little shops and was intrigued, but I didn't really know how you make it. So then time went on and we ended up in Toronto in 1980, for 18 months. And I couldn't work. I couldn't get a work permit. Only my husband could. And I got bored, looked at the newspaper and found a woman, a Dutch woman, teaching lace. So I thought, well, I might as well try this. Well, I've got nothing else to do. And that's how I started making lace. So when I went back to South Africa in 1981, it was wonderful to connect with my friend, and we started this lace adventure together. And I got very involved. I even taught lace for quite a while, had quite a few students until we came to the US in 1994. Since then I've not made a lot of lace. Life just took over here. I did connect with a lace group in Reston for a while, and then it sort of dwindled, but I've got a nice lace collection that I've put together over the years and added to. And so, I've always kept my interest and therefore, you know, that's how I got involved in lacemaking.[00:04:09]Lindsey Dinneen: That is wonderful. I did not know that story. I love the fact that you, were bored, so you just decided to take up this new adventure. That's amazing.[00:04:19]Elna VanGreuning: Yes, I've always loved doing handcrafts. I was a home ec[onomics] teacher. So you can imagine that I did weaving, and I took a weaving course in Toronto as well. But lace was sort of the unusual thing, and I thought, Whoa, this is on my doorstep. Why, why don't I pursue this? So I've loved embroidery and all of this, and I also think that handiwork for me, it's really been a wonderful-- it's a pastime, but also it's a way of relaxing. There's a way of expression expressing your feelings and your artistic capabilities. I can't draw, but I can do fine handwork and appreciate it. So I think that's the way I, I really enjoyed getting involved in lace and it's, it's so beautiful for the eye in any way. And you can sit down, work on your pillow with beautiful classic music in the background, or sit outside and enjoy fresh air so it is something you can take with you. I mean, you can take your pillow when you go to a friend or you can take it on vacation. Not, not practical if you're flying, but if you're driving in a car. So yes, that's, that's how I got involved.[00:05:37] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. You have some stories to share with us about the origin of lace and different techniques or styles, but I would love for you to take it away because I am very excited to learn along with everyone else.[00:05:52]Elna VanGreuning: Okay, thank you. Well, let me start off with the history of lace. Lace is indisputably a very old form of art. It's rather sad that very little is known about the birth of lace as we know it today and the existing resources are very few and very superficial. Indeed the history of lace cannot be separated from the history of clothing construction. And as a matter of fact, fashion has always driven the lace production, whether it was hand or machine lace, as we know it today. It's obvious that humans from the earliest times had a need or longing to decorate clothing, and it never changed or diminished. Lace thus evolved out of this need. The Egyptian lace making techniques unfortunately disappeared for many centuries. It was only through pictorial evidence from the late 15th century we could see that simple platitude laces appeared on costumes, for example. And, when printing became popular or available, we now know of books. There was one book, 1561, printed in Zurich that mentioned the amount or the look of lace that was actually ordered from Italy in the previous century, in the 15th century.[00:07:20] So we know that after the Middle Ages, lace definitely came back. Lace was surely inspired by the open effect of the renowned Venetian embroidery . In time, instead of cutting out expensive fabric, foundation threads were laid onto a temporary backing and with a needle, a form of lace was made and it was called Punto in Aria. This was all done in Venetia, or Venice, because we know that the Venetians were very big on trading with the East. And on the Island of Burano just outside of Venice today, they still have a whole community of lacemakers that actually makes this. The Venitian trade with the Far East also brought very fine silk threads to Europe.[00:08:11]There is no proof that Asia ever made lace. They did various forms of embroidery, but not lace. So therefore the Italians still claim that they inspired and birthed lacemaking. The lace that they made in Venice at that time with a needle then became a known as needle lace, which is very different from bobbin lace that I'll talk about later. So bobbin lace generally is much quicker to work than needle lace. And skilled workers were soon able to copy needle lace designs. So yes, bobbin lace was inspired again out of needle lace. Bobbin lace uses multiple threads, which are wound around wooden or bone bobbins, and therefore it's called bobbin lace. So that's the big distinction, between the two. Although the Italians even claim that they started bobbin lace, the first history book on lace, it's called--it's a very  famous book-- it's called "The History of Lace" by a Mrs. Palliser was written at the end of the 1800s. It clearly states the fact that we will never know the truth.[00:09:33] We'll never know whether the Italian started the bobbin lace or whether the Belgians, the flounders at that stage, started the lace.  So regardless of the country of a region of bobbin lace, it did spread rapidly and was established as one of the most delicate of all handmade art forms ever. So, I mean, there might be people that would say no jewelry could be finer or whatever, but that's from the lace makers perspective. The first lace was very simple and not so delicate because of the thicker thread and very simple geometric forms that were used. But as skills were refined and much thinner threads became available, artists soon produced very complex and elaborate patterns. Lace-making reached a high point with the Brussels Point d'Angleterre. Or in Dutch, it was called bloom work, which means flower work. It was very delicate.[00:10:39]So by the 1550s, lace-making became a very common career choice and not only a pastime skill. Initially convents took the lead in making the lace and also taught lace-making. Women were involved in spinning, weaving, and embroidery since the Middle Ages and therefore those industries, which were all home-interest industries, were well-established by the time the woman got involved in lace-making, so they were already set up for this. And I also think that some of the weaving the big tapestry were then taken over by companies and took the work away from the women in, in their home industry. So lace making filled this void at the time. Many pictorial evidences exist to show us of women either busy spinning, weaving, making lace, or depicting these articles in paintings and drawings.[00:11:40] Paintings of rich embroidered tablecloths. And clergy attire are plentiful. If we look through the art books and, and art history, we learn about that as well. The elegant, elaborate clothing decoration reached a peak under Louis the 16th. And Marie Antoinette, obviously, and that was 1774 to 1792, and paved the way for lace to become very sought after. From Italy amongst the nobility they had this need and greed for all these wonderful things. So that also stimulated the production of very fine fabrics and decorations. In 1665, there were already 10 different kinds of known lace, of which the Belgium Mechelen, which was a little town just outside of Brussels, lace was by far the most popular for the nobility, because it was considered the prettiest of laces--fine, transparent and effective. In 1834, there were eight houses where Mechelen lace was produced. So that's just more, more or less, an idea where they started and how it spread. So I don't know whether you have any questions[00:13:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. That's really helpful to have a little bit of a background and, and who knew there was such tension about it? I, that is so interesting to me.[00:13:17] Elna VanGreuning: Thank you. Well, since, Belgium, and I'm going to switch between Belgium and Flanders and I'll explain in a minute why, is generally seen as the country that produced the most and the most beautiful of all laces throughout the ages. I'm going to talk about Belgium lace first of all, but that doesn't mean that the French lace wasn't special, that Spain didn't have lace Germany Switzerland, Scandinavia, Russia, and so forth. I can't talk about all the countries. Certainly the French lace was also something in that time. French lace in particular was beautiful, but not such a huge industry because of the religious persecution, because of the Edict of Nantes, and then the revolution. So it was never as big as the Belgium lace. So, Flanders became Belgium in 1839 and, you know, there were also change in, in borders, because at some stage some cities like Mechelen was in France, and then it became part of Belgium, and Brabant was first in Flanders and then it became part of Holland, so it's really difficult to know which, which part was where when, but, so just excuse me, if I, I mix between Flanders and Belgium.[00:14:44] Paintings from the low countries, as early as the 15th century, depicts people dressed in clothes, richly adorned with lace. A series of engravings around 1585 shows lacemakers sitting at their lace pillows and working and, well, the interesting part of you, I can't show you the pictures, but if you see the pictures, they were young girls, they were not older women. And I'm going to tell you why in a little bit. In 1651, the Flemish poet, Jacob Van Eyck, wrote a famous poem about the lace maker in Latin. I'm gonna read it to you in English because I just love it. And it goes like this: "Of many arts, one surpasses all. The threads woven by the strange powers of the hand. Threads, which the dropping spider would, in vain, attempt to imitate and which Pallas [which was the Greek goddess, Athena] would confess she has never known." And she was the goddess of handicraft. So that's a, I think really a nice way of expressing. It's almost like a spider web, but it's very fine.[00:16:06] Lindsey Dinneen: That is beautiful.[00:16:07] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Yes. I do love that one. Because of the religious prosecution. Flanders lost many skilled lacemakers, and in 1698, legislation was even passed in, in Flanders, which kept the employer responsible if his employee fled the country. So you had to tell them why  she left and where she went to, because it was such a big industry for the country.[00:16:38] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness.[00:16:40] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Now I'm going to give you a few statistics to prove how large this lacemaking industry in Belgium was. Up to 1900, the lace industry was the most valued home industry in Belgium because it accounted for a sizeable portion of foreign currency flowing into the country. As early as 1785, it was recorded that the average lacemaker was was technically blind by the age of 30, and children as young as five years old were signed up for apprenticeships. At age 10, girls earned enough to financially support themselves. It wasn't fully grown girls. In 1768, England, England alone ordered 250,000 pounds worth of lace from Flanders and by 1861, one out of every four women were involved in the lacemaking industry in Belgium. That high demand for lace in England and Europe quickly led to an embargo on the implant  and resulted in a substantial and dangerous Black Market. Between 1820 in 1836, at least 40,000 dogs were used to carry lace around their skinny bodies, and then covered in a second layer of fur from his deceased dog, between Belgium and France alone. They were very various other ways of smuggling that you also read about. But I thought this one is just a particularly horrid one because the French, even after the revolution-- mean, Napoleon also loved lace. And if you go to the Island of Murano, there's a shop that also is a museum and they have examples of some of the lace worn by Napoleon. So, yes, the revolution didn't complete it, it stopped the lace making in France, but not the need and the love for lace.[00:18:59] Okay. Back to Flanders, the first Flanders lace exported to England was named Brussels point d'angleterre or point English, as I mentioned earlier. Because it was specifically exported to England and loved by King Charles the second. And in 1662, the English parliament issued a law to prohibit the import of this lace. And this was actually the height of the production of this point d'angleterre because of the English loving this, you know, they created a demand and a market but it was soon stopped because of the English. This boosted the English lace making industry when they prohibited the import of the Brussels lace, but they still had a long road ahead to compete with the quality and the quantities of lace made in Brussels. As a matter of fact, the British never achieved this milestone King Charles, the second, between 1660, and 1685, he ruled. He even invited some Flemish lacemakers to come and live in England, but that was really not a successful venture. The lace traders kept on smuggling huge quantities of best and finest Flemish lace, and sold it as English point lace, and not Brussels point d'angleterre.  In 1678, one of the boats smuggling these goods-- there were tons of colors, handkerchiefs, gloves, fans, you name it and 750,000 yards of lace on this boat that was seized across the English channel. Nobody knows what they did with it, but it was a huge loss for the Flanders industry because they didn't get the lace back and the British didn't pay either. So, there was a  war on a lot of fronts, not only on the political front. [00:21:01] Right from the beginning they only used linen thread produced in Belgium. The linen threads were so fine, it could hardly be felt between the fingertips. Linen was kept in dark and damp rooms where it was spun, stored, and used to avoid direct sunlight and from it becoming dry and brittle. The working rooms were often quite dark and only lit by one candle encircled by glass balls filled with water to reflect the candlelight.  So you wonder why they got blind at age--they were technically blind at age 30, because they've worked at very low lighting. And in 1859, just an example, one pound of Belgium linen would cost 500 pounds. That's the thread. And if they use it produce lace, the lace was only worth 700 pounds. So you can imagine that the linen was much more expensive than what the girls were paid to make this lace. They only made, made 200 pounds for all these hours of work.[00:22:14] Linen was, therefor, far too expensive for the British machine manufacturers, and they soon switched to only using cotton. So after the industrial revolution in England, you know, there was no need for lacemakers. The machines did the lace, but they couldn't really afford making lace with linen because it was too expensive. So this was one of the reasons why Belgium lace remained high in demand, amongst the well-to-do, because the cotton was much paler in color than the natural linen and it wasn't as durable as linen. So to mimic the color of linen, the machine manufacturers, even dipped cotton lace into coffee to see whether they can't mimic the real linen look and entice their customers. But, people with money still preferred the handmade Belgium lace and the trade went on whether it was allowed or smuggling.[00:23:21]Well, a last story about Belgium lace is about the Mechelen lace. Mechelen was a little town just outside of Brussels, and it also made very fine laces and the distinctive characteristic of this lace, was the use of this thicker, silk thread that they interweaved. It was called a gimp thread and this made it special. It looked very different. And it was woven on a net background. The production of this lace also ceased in 1834, and by then there were only eight producers of the Mechelen lace. And one of the reasons for this was because by that time knit or tool, as we know, it, was actually a machine produced in France. So, that's how, you know, it took over the place, and people used a machine-made knit to do embroidery that looked like lace and was cheaper obviously. [00:24:25] Churches in Belgium are the fortunate and proud owners of some of the most exquisite and valuable existing lace collections in the world and Bruges are today seen as the lace center of Belgium and a lot of tourists go there. It's a pretty little town, but it also has a lot of lace shops. Not everything is made by hand though, but they've got the museums, and it's actually ironic because Bruges wasn't the largest lace making center, but it just evolved as such. So that's more or less the story about the Belgium lace.[00:25:08]Lindsey Dinneen: That is amazing. Oh my goodness. Thank you for sharing.[00:25:13]Elna VanGreuning: So now I can tell you a little bit about the English lace, because it also became a very popular pastime actually in 1976. It was actually in England that lacemaking really bloomed again. So the declaration of the Edict of Mantis in 1595 caused Protestants, known as huguenots, to flee from France and Flanders because they were both Catholic countries to various corners of the world. For almost 200 years, this flight of huguenots went on. In the process, the skill of lacemaking went with them. And that's actually how it went to Holland. Many went through Holland and that gave their lacemaking a boost. Holland did have lacemakers because they were so close to Belgium. But it was never at the scale and the quality of Belgium. So with the lacemakers fleeing France and Flanders, many of them went to Holland and many went to England. After some of the huguenots settled in England, in 1695, there were more than a hundred thousand lacemakers from France in England. During the French revolution, the lace schools and linen factories closed and stock got so low, which then boosted the English lacemaking industry and forced the British to  import more lace from Belgium because they couldn't provide in all the lace for the nobility.  King Charles the second loved lace and he ordered 600 yards of lace to adorn his nightgowns alone. Only for his nightgowns.[00:27:04] Lindsey Dinneen: That is amazing and very lavish[00:27:08] Elna VanGreuning: That's right. So when you watch these old movies again, just watch and see whether you see the lace, because it's there, but unfortunately, with the industrial revolution, machine-made lace soon took over the handmade lace industry in England. And by 1765, as I said earlier, the net background was made by a machine . And so handmade lace in England changed into a hobby, and not a career, and died for almost a hundred years. There were hardly anybody making handmade lace in England. Until the 1970s, it surfaced again. So that's just a little bit about the lace in England and the Victorian Albert Museum in London, if you ever get a opportunity to go there, they also have a magnificent collection of lace from all over the world and it's worth visiting. So what about America? I'm sure you're wondering, did it ever come to America?[00:28:15] Lindsey Dinneen: I am wondering,[00:28:17]Elna VanGreuning: So, it indeed did. Lacemaking was brought to America by European immigrants and soon became a popular hobby in several communities. One of the earliest and best known lace home industries was in Ipswich in Massachusetts. They started in 1639 and by the 18th century, they were quite a home industry and produced beautiful lace as well. And it was in the fashion of the European lace, mostly torsion. It's still a beautiful lace. Today, there still is an international organization of lace in the US and most states still have an active Guild. So if anybody would be interested in seeing what they're doing and, you know, I noticed that the Guild here in Virginia has a big exhibit right now in Culpepper, but because of COVID-19, you know, the museum there's closed. So that is something to go and visit after everything opens. And then in 1907, Mrs. James W. Pinscher suggested to the Smithsonian Institute to put together a collection of lace. She and some of her well-to-do friends collectively donated or loaned 500 pieces of lace to the National Museum of American History. And it is still there today. So not all of it's on display, but they are the proud owners of the lace. So, yes, it is something that you could even make in the US and get involved in.[00:30:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wonderful. Well, first of all, thank you. That was deep and rich. And I really appreciate knowing more 'cause,  I shared with you beforehand, this is new to me and I'm very excited to learn more. So first of all, thank you for that. . So if somebody is interested in getting involved, is there a good way to start that you recommend?[00:30:30]Elna VanGreuning: I would recommend going through the International Organization of Lace in the US and then you can go to your state, contact them, but I think they also give places where you can order all these things, but you'll have to get a good book. It's the books that you can teach yourself. It's not impossible to teach yourself, but it would be wise to, or helpful to join a guild. And I'm sure most guilds will have somebody that loves teaching other people the skill.[00:31:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Thank you. And then do you have any particular recommendations if someone maybe isn't able to start, you know, making it themselves, but they would like to support artists who do-- do you know of any kind of resource or would you also suggest going to the guild to kind of try to find those makers where we can maybe support them?[00:31:31]Elna VanGreuning: Yes. I think the guild, the International Organization would be the best place to start, because, I saw exhibit of people in Sutton, Virginia, over Christmas through the guild. They had an exhibit and they actually sold some of their products. So they may made little Christmas decorations, crosses, they even had Easter eggs adorned with lace. So people are not necessarily making typical lace anymore because very few people would wear, or use lace fans and things like that. So when you get a beautiful pattern--I've made quite a few lace collars. I framed them and I framed things for my grandchildren.[00:32:15] Or you can make a handkerchief, and have it embroidered with the dates of somebody getting married. So yes, you can make practical things, but I think people are thinking of adapting the lace and making more, you know, things for the house that, or you could use, or that's more fashionable today. And, the various guilds would be more productive and more and more initiative. I wouldn't be able to say--some would be more traditional and only do the old patterns, and they're beautiful old patterns. I mean, if you see it, you would just wish, "Oh, I'll make two yards of lace." I made 14 yards of lace for my children's christening dresses. That's, you know, 37 years ago. Maybe people still do that, or people that are into making porcelain dolls, they make their own clothes. They would also make the lace for those, for the dresses. I'm sure there are a lot of uses for that.[00:33:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. Perfect. Okay. Thank you. Yes, that's helpful. Okay, okay. Well, I have a couple questions that I love to ask my guests--just personal opinion about art. Is that okay if I ask a couple of questions?[00:33:25] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. Yeah, sure.[00:33:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:33:34]Elna VanGreuning: I think art is anything that's so beautiful for the eye that you either wanted to touch it, hear it, see it, you know, and you could even eat it, if it's like, in cake. So it's something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.[00:33:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. I love that answer. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:34:02]Elna VanGreuning: I think they give other people a way of escaping. Not everybody, you know, has the talent to be an artist. Or maybe everybody's got the talent. We just don't work on it, maybe. You know, I always think I can't sing or draw. So therefore I want to, you know, stress that art can be different forms. And I think artists brings a form of art to us that maybe we cannot make ourselves or participate in, but can appreciate. And I think it's very important because I think we can't just work all the time. I think it's a stress. It helps with stress and I just think for your own psyche, it's wonderful to enjoy something beautiful.[00:34:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Alright. And my last question--I can define my terms a little bit in it--but, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So what I mean by exclusive is, an artist create something and they share it with the world and they allow whoever is experiencing it to take from it what they will. So the artist doesn't necessarily provide any context or background to what they've produced. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist shares maybe their intention behind it. What inspired it? Just so that you kind of as an audience, or viewer or whatever, have a little bit to at least start with when you are evaluating it for yourself.[00:35:44] Elna VanGreuning: Yes. I think a little bit of both, you know? Sometimes when you go to a museum and you just stand in front of something, you can see "Oh, this is a painting of a river and it's a sunny day" and you can make your own conclusion.  But other times you might look at something and because you don't know the history or the setting, you can't fully appreciate it. So therefore, when I go to a museum, I always love taking a tour because I always feel I learn so much and I see it in a different perspective. So, I think there's a place for both.[00:36:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Okay. Wonderful. Well, thank you.[00:36:29]Elna VanGreuning: Thank you very much, Lindsey.[00:36:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Well, I just want to say again, thank you so, so, so much for taking the time today to share with us about lace and its origins and how we can participate. I just want to say in general, thank you also for creating art and sharing it. And, I appreciate that you make the world a more beautiful place. So thank you.[00:36:56] Elna VanGreuning: Thank you very much. Bye bye.[00:37:00]Bye![00:37:01] Lindsey Dinneen: If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:37:11] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome my husband, Kevin Dinneen! He shares about his first time attending a professional dance company's performance, and how there was no "guidebook" for dating a professional dancer before he wrote one.  Read "Flowers Are a Thing": https://www.facebook.com/notes/vidadance/flowers-are-a-thing/1521301624845093/Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArtist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 015 - Kevin DinneenLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.[00:00:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am your host Lindsey, and I am excited to be sharing a story from my special guest today, and that is my very own husband, Kevin. Welcome, Kevin. Thank you so much for being here.[00:00:47] Kevin Dinneen: Yes. Thanks for having me.[00:00:49] Lindsey Dinneen: All right. So I know that you have a social story about art that you'd like to share with us today.[00:00:55] Kevin Dinneen: I do. Unfortunately, this is going to be a rerun for you.[00:01:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay![00:01:00] Kevin Dinneen: You lived it and, and then you heard it several times. but I'd like to tell the story of when I was thrown into the deep end of attending ballet. This might surprise you all: there's not a primer out there. There is now because I created it. So check that out later, "Flowers are a Thing" on Facebook. Look it up. But there was not a primer or a, how to, or a, what do you call those--quick-start guide--there wasn't a, there wasn't anything.[00:01:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:01:32] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah.[00:01:33] Lindsey Dinneen: So you were going to come see a show of mine. Actually, we had just met.[00:01:41] Kevin Dinneen: You got that right! That's funny because that's an alert from what is, what is that app?[00:01:47] Lindsey Dinneen: It's a text messaging app. So yeah, it has nothing to do with what's going on right now, but good timing. Perfect timing.[00:01:55] Kevin Dinneen: Right. Okay, so let's backtrack. So the first day I met Lindsey was at a church function, and I happened to learn that she was a professional dancer and that she would be performing soon. And, I decided, "Hey, it would be cool if a group of us, that were in the church group , went and, and saw the performance." I decided to go ahead and organize this thing. And we got like six people to go in, and buy tickets and go support her. Now, the interesting thing is that that was the first day that I met her. Then I started like planning it and running by like, "How do I promote it? Does this email do it justice? I don't know what I'm talking about. Did I use the words?" Right. And, and that was like a week or two in maybe?[00:02:51] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I don't, yeah. I don't even know if it was that long because we met, and then I want to say either that night or the next day you sent me an email asking if you had the right wording or if I would change anything, it was really pretty quick because the performance was only a couple of weeks away at that point.[00:03:10] Kevin Dinneen: So, so fast forward to the day before, slash day of, I really started to like Lindsey and I had already decided that I was going to ask her out. But she's got this upcoming performance that was going to be at the Kauffman Center for Performing Arts. That's the legit place in Kansas City. There is not a better professional theater anywhere. I mean, it's amazing. It rivals the one in Sydney, right?[00:03:44] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, the Sydney Opera House for the acoustics.[00:03:47] Kevin Dinneen: So, anyway, so I wasn't gonna ask you out and throw you off your game, and either, either burden you with having to let me down or be so excited that you couldn't think about your work.[00:04:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.[00:04:00] Kevin Dinneen: So, yeah. I only think on the opposite ends of the spectrum, apparently.[00:04:05] Lindsey Dinneen: It wasn't a happy medium where I'm just like, "Yeah, this works."[00:04:08] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. "Well, whatever--this dude? Nevermind."[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Details.[00:04:14] Kevin Dinneen: So a little while before the performance, like a week before I decided that I was going to ask you out. Then I found out that your parents and your brother and sister-in-law were going to be at the performance as well.[00:04:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes.[00:04:34]Kevin Dinneen:  So now I'm worried, 'cause I've got to make a good impression because I like her. So I have to make a good impression on her family. And the night before I start thinking, you know, is it customary to do something? And I, and flowers come to mind. And I, I think of the opera and there's roses being thrown on the stage, and ice skating, they throw all sorts of stuff, stuffed animals and flowers and all that. And, so I got to thinking is, "Am I supposed to do that? Would it be weird if I did, or would it be weird if I didn't?" I didn't know the answer, so I Googled it and I remember some of the images coming up where little girls getting flowers after a recital. And so I was then worried thinking, "Oh, maybe for dance, this is, you know, just for girls--and boys, I guess, but anyway--like little kids after a recital." And I just imagined like, giving you this bouquet of flowers and you're like, "Uh, did you miss where I said, I'm a professional?"[00:05:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh no![00:05:48] Kevin Dinneen: "I am not a student at a recital." And then, you know, the other way around, I show up with nothing and she's like, "Oh, I guess he doesn't care." [00:06:00] Lindsey Dinneen: You think in extremes.[00:06:01] Kevin Dinneen: Again? Yeah, yeah. It's either. Yeah. So, I got to thinking and I thought, "Okay, so let's do, let's do something, but we don't have to fall into the flower or no flower category and you can do your own thing." So I thought about the conversation that we had had where I found out that she liked Granite City Brewery's chocolate cake. There was her favorite cake.[00:06:27] Lindsey Dinneen: It's amazing.[00:06:28] Kevin Dinneen: And so I go and watch the performance, and then I didn't bring the cake in beforehand because I thought, you know, this is a fancy theater. Oh, also I'd never been there. I didn't know the rules or anything. And I figured, you know, it's a little bit self-obsessed if I called to see if I can bring cake , like, "I know you've got a lot going on, but this is important. Can I bring cake? It's for a date? Thanks for taking my call."[00:06:58] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:07:00] Kevin Dinneen: And so I didn't want to call to ask that. So, so I decided what I'll do is, I'll just leave it in the car. And then after the show, I'll just run out, grab it and bring it back. And, so I watched the show, Lindsey was awesome. And, then I meet her parents and her brother and sister-in-law and all that goes really well. And I was like, " Hey, I'll be right back." So I leave and I go out to the car, I grabbed the cake and then, I get back to the door and I go to go inside and the door is locked.[00:07:37] Lindsey Dinneen: I forgot this part.[00:07:40] Kevin Dinneen: The door is locked and there's no one around. So right now there's a cast party going on. Right? So, so the people that are gonna stay are going to be there for awhile and the people that have left, like they left a while ago. If they were going to leave, they were gone. And so I'm just, I'm stuck and I'm freaking out. And,  I go all the way around this building. There are two entrances, right?[00:08:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Mind you though, this is, this is a bit of a walk. It's a huge building.[00:08:10] Kevin Dinneen: It's a huge building. And there's a back that's in the garage. So you have to go all the way around the garage and then around the building. And then, you know, the entrance is, is actually cut into the building. So I actually have to go a good four blocks. Right?[00:08:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I think so.[00:08:29] Kevin Dinneen: A good four or five blocks. And so, I pass people on the street and they're--'cause I'm in a suit with this Granite City carry-out bag walking, like someone's chasing me.[00:08:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and it is, you know, January, so it's freezing![00:08:44] Kevin Dinneen: And it was January, like 9:30 or 10:00.[00:08:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably.[00:08:49]Kevin Dinneen: So like I wonder what they thought my condition was or my situation was.[00:08:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It's a cake emergency.[00:08:55] Kevin Dinneen: A cake emergency-- so then I get around to the front of a building and, I see an, I don't know, he's an usher or what-- he sees me waiting there with a bag and I, I wave at him and he comes over and I said, I'm friends with a dancer, and I just ran out to my car and I got locked out. I am part of the after party upstairs. And he's like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, come on in." So I was like "Whew." I thought for sure I was going to have to, that this was going to be a whole thing. No, once you leave, you can't come back or something. And then I can see our successful relationship just melting away at that very moment because this usher took it upon himself to be a guard, sent me away, and all of my hopes and dreams were dashed. Anyway...[00:09:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Anyway, the flair for the dramatic.[00:09:45] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. So, so I get back and when I get back, it was perfect timing because Lindsey and her family were actually headed to the elevator to go downstairs, to leave, when I caught up. I actually don't remember what we talked about heading to the elevator, but I didn't mention anything about what was in my hand. And I saw you and I just totally forgot the dilemma that I had just been in. And, so we're riding down in an elevator, with Lindsey and her parents. And I remember her dad was on one side of her and her mom was on the other. And I said, "Oh, and I have this chocolate cake for you. And, and she smiled and we were really awkward, but luckily Lindsey was grinning ear to ear. And so we get out of the elevator and there's just like this, like probably 10 or 15 seconds where no one said anything.[00:10:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, we were just awkwardly grinning at each other.[00:10:44] Kevin Dinneen: And your parents are just watching.[00:10:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, everyone else, 'cause there was a friend of yours also in the elevator with you and he was also just like, nobody kind of knew what to do.[00:10:56] Kevin Dinneen: So, yeah, so we leave the elevator and I said, "Hey, so I was going to get your flowers, but I didn't know if flowers were a thing. And so, I thought I'd get you chocolate cake instead." And luckily Lindsey smiled and was like, "Chocolate cake is a thing too."[00:11:16] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm pretty sure I affirmed that flowers indeed are a thing, but chocolate cake is a thing too. Yeah. Yeah. And it's great because it's now a tradition and kind of everybody who knows me as a dancer knows about this thing. So they'll even ask about it, like "When are you getting your cake at the end of the performance run?" And things like that, 'cause it's, it's always, it's a tradition now.[00:11:44] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, and so since Lindsey is the Artistic Director, and runs a professional dance company. Whenever we have a cast party, then we always have chocolate cake that's for everyone.[00:11:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And it's really fun, 'cause we get to share that story. And, yeah, I just remember thinking, you know, just grinning at you from across the elevator. 'Cause we were like on either side. And silence. And we're just like, transformed into these like super awkward, you know, love-struck teenagers. Like your relationship isn't even really happening yet, but we think we probably like it each other. Yeah, I think that was definitely proof though, for me anyway, that you, you liked me and that you paid attention. That was a big thing actually, 'cause you could have just been like, okay, I think she said the cake and got it from anywhere, you know? Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing your story about art, Kevin.[00:12:40] Kevin Dinneen: Oh, and if anyone wants to hear more about that story...[00:12:43] Lindsey Dinneen: Ah, yes.[00:12:44] Kevin Dinneen: And they want to learn more--maybe, you know, we're speaking right now to someone who's in a similar place and aspiring to date a dancer. And you know, maybe you're not sure if it's for you, or you're not sure if you can hack it. Well, I do have some tips and best practices for courting and dating a professional dancer. So check out "Flowers Are a Thing" on Facebook and you will be more prepared.[00:13:16] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. And, dancers will definitely get a kick out of it because you're going to relate to all of it too. So yeah. Enjoy.[00:13:24] Kevin Dinneen: Bobby pins has its own section.[00:13:26] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, exactly. And that should be enough right there as we all know, but, yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks, Kevin. And, a couple of quick questions, if you don't mind.[00:13:38]Kevin Dinneen:  Oh, you're not going to ask me the questions I helped you come up with you.[00:13:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah, I am. Okay.[00:13:43] Kevin Dinneen: Okay.[00:13:45] Lindsey Dinneen: How do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:13:52] Kevin Dinneen: Okay, so to me, I think art is, is taking some base components, some raw material and forming that raw material into something that a viewer or listener or someone experiencing that in whatever shape or, or vessel medium that might be, and something that enhances their lives. Whereas you take this, there's a piece of paper and this pen and separately, you glance over it, but you take those things and you combine that into a, into a moving-- I don't mean moving physically, but something that moves the person that sees it. And that is what art is. You have these, these raw materials that you create an experience from, and I think that's art and it's it's on every--it doesn't have to be happy. It doesn't have to be sad. It doesn't have to be hard to understand. It doesn't have to be easy to understand. It's just creating something moving from raw materials.[00:15:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh, I like that answer. That was awesome.[00:15:09] Kevin Dinneen: I just came up with that by the way.[00:15:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that was seriously off the fly, because we had come up with these questions a while ago, but I don't think he thought they would be used against him, so to speak. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:15:27]Kevin Dinneen: You know, I'm going to kind of cheat because I think it's up to each individual artist, and I think all of the roles of art are important. So you can think of the role of an artist portraying a social issue to bring about positive change. That's so important, but if you have an artist who is really gifted and really enjoys entertaining, a lighthearted entertainment, then I think that that's where they need to go. Then that is just as important of a role as, you know, bringing a social change or whatever, 'cause that's also a social change actually. And maybe, maybe an artist feels that he or she is is called to educate through art or inform through art. I think that they are all important and I feel like it's important for each artist to embrace his or her passion, and not conform to what they were, what he or she was told is art.[00:16:32] Oh, it's not art if, you know, people can understand it. Or it's not, it's not art unless it's on canvas, or it's not art, unless it's to the point where it gets into a museum, or whatever it is that that people are told is not art. If you're it, whatever it is, I think whatever an artists' passion is, I think it's important for them to play that role. 'Cause they're going to do it better than if they were doing something else and they're going to do it better than someone else who has a different passion as well. So I think they're all important. And the most important thing is to follow your passion.[00:17:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree. Okay. Final question. Should art be exclusive or inclusive? Exclusive meaning that the artist does his or her job, so to speak and then, it's up to the individual to interpret it without any kind of assistance, whether that's knowing the reason behind the piece or, you know, what inspired it or whatever. Versus inclusive meaning that more people would be able to understand it because the artist is going to express the reasoning behind it, or the significance of the mediums they've chosen.[00:17:50] Kevin Dinneen: So for exclusive, this would be, I create this piece, and all I ever let anyone know about it is--let's say it's a painting. They just see the painting. And that's all I ever say about it. Whereas inclusive would be, if you're not maybe seeing things like I do, this is a painting that was brought on from the time I was in a car accident, so you'll notice that a lot of the edges are, are harder. Makes me think of like, you know, whatever it's things like that, like explaining the piece, there may be a lacquered by the meaning or audible track. You put the headphones on. And it's me talking about my process and stuff like that. Right?[00:18:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Exactly. So not simply, you know, this is "Watercolor on Canvas," which it might be useful, but more about the piece.[00:18:41] Kevin Dinneen: Okay. My answer is a, is a super hard inclusive. Just because I haven't been able to enjoy a lot of pieces of art because I didn't know what I was supposed to take from it. I, you know, I didn't understand-- boy, there's a lot of anger. I can, I can see really violent stuff here. And I, but I don't know. I don't know why. And I don't know if this person is justified. I don't know what's going on. For me, for an artist not to explain what's going on and say, "Oh, well, you get what you want to get out of it." Well then most people  don't get anything out of it . Or they don't get nearly as much as they would if they heard the story behind it or heard the process that created it. And I think that's very important. I don't understand when someone creates something, I don't understand why they wouldn't want everyone to be able to see it the way they're wanting it to be shown.[00:19:58] Lindsey Dinneen: So to that point, do you feel that there's value though an artist creating a completely open-ended piece where even for themselves their intention behind it was to have a sort of, you know, vagueness?[00:20:15] Kevin Dinneen: Yes. I understand the reason behind it, but it frustrates me just like every movie that ends without knowing if they're actually gonna be together or is he actually going to make it out alive? Yes, there's a storytelling element to that. And there's a feeling that it leaves you with  of wanting more and this unresolved, whatever it is, that you're left with, that actually leaves a lasting impression. And I understand that that's a part of art, or can be, but it's frustrating to me. I would like to know what happens, you know, I'll go with you. I'll go with you on a story, but take me to the end. Don't leave me hanging.[00:20:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Excellent. Well, thank you so much again, for being part of our podcast today. I am delighted to be able to feature that story. It's a pretty fun one, of course I'm a little biased, but it did put him in a very good place right away for me to want to date him. I mean, I already was interested, but you'd shown up to something that was like, you barely knew me at the time and made the commitment and actually followed through. And then he brought me chocolate cake.[00:21:30] Kevin Dinneen: Yeah, fellows, fellows, listen.[00:21:33] Lindsey Dinneen: For real, and cared enough to even have the question is, you know, our flowers a thing? Which most people, I don't even think it would cross their minds. So, yeah. But on that note, thank you so much for listening. And if you have your own stories to share with our listeners, we would love to hear them. So please feel free to contact me at any time and we will get you set up here in an interview. All right. Well, thanks again for listening and we'll catch you next time.[00:22:03]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:22:13]Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different product courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you are a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Julie Ulstrup! She is a professional portrait photographer, currently based out of Fort Collins, Colorado. She shares her journey from her first experiences with art to doing landscape photography, and what inspires her with portrait photography now. (The episode cover image is one of her portraits, from her most recent project, 50 Over 50!)  Get in touch with Julie Ulstrup: https://www.julieulstrup.com/ | https://www.facebook.com/JulieUlstrupPhotography/ | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwcnAX2kZHvPCfQoJY75hng?reload=9&view_as=subscriber Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off your entire order! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 014 - Julie UlstrupLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses, and that you just experiences as so beautiful.[00:00:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am Lindsey. I am so excited that you are here listening, and I am very delighted to be welcoming our guest today. Her name is Julie Ulstrup and she hails from Fort Collins, Colorado, although she works all over the world and I can't wait to hear all about that. She is a portrait photographer, as well as so many other things, as so many people are multifaceted. And I cannot wait to share Julie's stories with you and also learn who she is and all that she brings to the world. So thank you so much for being here, Julie. I really appreciate it.[00:01:14] Julie Ulstrup: Oh, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you, Lindsey, for hosting this podcast and you know, really bringing some stories about art into the world. I love it.[00:01:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my pleasure. Well, I would love if you would take just a moment to maybe introduce yourself and share a little bit about, you know, who you are and how you've gotten involved in photography. And just a little bit about you, if that's okay.[00:01:40] Julie Ulstrup: Yeah, that would be great. Well, like you mentioned, I am a portrait photographer and I have a portrait studio in Fort Collins, Colorado. So I, and I serve people from around the country. There are a lot of people who visit Colorado, obviously, and also around the world. I've got a full indoor studio and then this quintessential Colorado property where I have outdoor space that I can have very large groups. I, again, I do families, I do generation photography. I also do headshots and personal branding as well as high school seniors. So I think it's all the good stuff. I feel like photography is something that has, it's been part of my life really since I was born.[00:02:34] My grandparents, my mom's family, owned the camera store before I was born. And so, and I was the oldest grandchild and I was photographed all the time. There are millions of things, probably pictures of me and then when I was in high school, I really developed this passion for photography and I loved it, went to college and I was a journalism major and took all of the photography classes that I could. And then even right after college, I worked for a very prestigious photography studio in Chicago, where I grew up. And then I decided I had to get a, like a "grownup job" and be a real grownup, do grownup things, you know, and I had done very well in photography. I worked for a photography studio in college, and this was back in the day when we took rolls of film with us and I photographed sorority and fraternity parties, but I just didn't really see it as--well, I didn't really see it as art and I also didn't really see it as a way that I could have a viable business and earn a living and have a lifestyle that I really wanted.[00:03:53] So fast forward, 20 years later, actually maybe 30 years later. I always have loved photography. And I worked as a school counselor in a middle school, a high school and at the university level. And so really connecting with people is what I'm incredibly passionate about. You know, helping empowering people, helping people see who they are. And I realized that my love of photography and my love of really connecting with people and helping empower and inspire them could come together in a way that was really beautiful. So that's, that's the really short cliff notes version by very long photography journey that has been so incredible in my life. And. And I can't even imagine what my life would be like without it.[00:04:58]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing about that. And I know that in your life that you've probably encountered many, many interesting things that are art-related that have spoken to you, but I would just love to hear--are there any particular moments that really stand out to you as being special or particularly meaningful?[00:05:22] Julie Ulstrup: Yes. Well, like I said, I grew up in the Chicago suburbs and I had a phenomenal photography teacher. And he also taught at The Art Institute of Chicago. So every year we got--and I took every photography class that I could--every year, we got to go down to The Art Institute and, you know, walk around and see different things and do different things. Well, because he was an instructor there, we had special access to photographs that the general public did not have access to. And I will never forget one time. We went to, we were, we were down in this room, this conference room with a big table, and this was in my third year of photography. So it was all of the people who were the people who've taken photography for several years and we were passing around these photographs.[00:06:23] I still get chills when I think of it, of, you know, it was just an incredible experience to, to see in real life, in my own hands in front of me, these photographs that I had only seen in books and really, yeah, powerful for me to be able to have that experience and realize the power of art at the time. I felt like landscape art really spoke to me. So, you know, again, some of the great landscape photographers of course, but the moment photography, just really creating that moment and finding that moment was just beautiful. So, yeah, that's a big one for me. Actually, I do have a funny story because I really thought that landscape photography was what I was super passionate about.[00:07:18] And I went to see Tom Mandelson, who is a contemporary photographer. He's still alive. And he does a lot of photography in the mountains, in the United States, in the West. And he was giving this talk and he talked about, "Oh yeah, we were all sitting out in the blind, in the, you know, in the middle of the night, waiting for the sun to rise. And after about eight hours in the cold and in the swamp, most of the people had gone back for breakfast, but a couple of us had waited and like, this is where I got this beautiful shot." And I don't even remember if it was an Eagle or a moose or something. And I thought, "Yeah, I'm going to be the woman who's going back and having coffee."[00:08:02] I'm not, I don't want to sit in a blind for eight hours like that.  And then of course, Annie Liebowitz is one that I just love. She's an American photographer and she does a lot of very-- what are they? I would say she, she does a lot of magazine style shoots and does some really glamorous things. And she's also, I mean, she's photographed everybody from the Rolling Stones to the Queen of England. You know, so she's just pretty remarkable as well.[00:08:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. And so that was, you were saying that was in high school or I, or sorry, college.[00:08:43] Julie Ulstrup: Yeah, that was high school, yup.[00:08:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And then, so then how did that impact you as far as --well, actually, what I'm really interested in finding out is, so you, you were super inspired by landscape photography, but then you ended up as a portrait photographer. So how, how did that kind of weave about?[00:09:05] Julie Ulstrup: Well, as I mentioned, for lack of a better way to say it, I got into grownup life, you know, because I, I had some jobs, and then I had some children, and I was able to stay home with them for awhile. And I had a, had a job at a university when my children were growing up, and I really became passionate about empowering young people to see further than they believed that they could see. And I always had this, you know, I took pictures of my children and I photographed my family throughout their life, growing up, that kind of thing. It never went away. And then I went through some really hard times in my life and I did the, I did some landscape photography and I enjoyed it.[00:09:56] I loved it. I spend a lot of time outdoors in the Rocky Mountains are beautiful national parks, all of that kind of thing. And then I really decided, you know, I wonder if this is something that I could do more of, really find a different way. I was working as a school counselor in a high school and it can be exhausting and there came a time when there was a lot of paperwork involved and a lot of that, not really connecting with the students and their families, the way that I wanted to, because to me that was, and still is the best part about it. And so I started building my photography business. And started taking portraits, started working with families, started doing some high school seniors, some babies, that kind of thing.[00:10:55] And really just started learning and growing my craft in a way that I could connect with people. And I think it was really even that experience that I mentioned just a few minutes ago with Tom Mangleson. Like, yeah, I don't want to sit in a blind for hours and hours to get a gorgeous photograph. Yes, I love being outdoors, but I would rather spend time with people and help them see the possibility of who they are. And that's what I do with my portrait work. I meet with people and I find out who they are and what makes them tick and the, the juicy, exciting parts about them. And. Photograph them. And I've had people come back and see their photographs after their session. And they're in tears because they have not seen themselves that way in a really long time, or they forgotten that part of themselves.[00:12:05] So it's become a passion of mine to really help people because a lot of people, and you may know this, Lindsey, a lot of people, and it's more women--like, no, I don't want to be in the picture. No, you can't take my photograph now. Wait until I have my hair different or I get some new clothes or I lose 15 pounds. All of these things, there are all of these excuses why we don't show up. And so I help people to see that it's always good to show up and where you are right now is exactly where you should be right now and share that with the world.[00:12:51] Lindsey Dinneen: That's beautiful.[00:12:52] Julie Ulstrup: Thank you.[00:12:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, and I love that. I love the fact that you're so passionate about empowering people and it's not-- it would be absolutely fine if it were just a job, so to speak, for you. But I love the fact that it's so much more to it for you. It's not just like, let me just take this picture and, you know, and, and make it the best it can be. It's who are you? And then let me show that to the world. I think that's incredible.[00:13:22] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely, it is for me. So I love it.[00:13:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, no, I think that is absolutely just gorgeous. I love that. So you mentioned that you've actually been able to do this, not just locally to where you are, but you've actually been able to do this all over the world. Can you share more about that?[00:13:44] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. Well, I haven't yet traveled all over the world, but I have traveled quite a bit. I do have some clients--actually I client who lived here in Northern Colorado and she came for her photographs. And she was leaving the very next day to go back home to Dubai. And so she, we did her session and then we did a Zoom call and she chose her favorites. And she has said to me, "Oh, I would love if you could come here because there'd be so many women who want to be photographed." And anyway, so we, I did some photographs of her and also traveled some to other parts in the United States where I've done a family--I photographed a family reunion in Hawaii, and we've got some resorts here in Fort Collins and in the surrounding areas of the mountains where I've done some family reunion. I'm working with somebody in Chicago to do-- I've got a, a project going on right now. And I think we're going to be doing some sessions in Chicago, probably later this summer to really do some celebration of people. So that's more to come. That's really my, my goal to move forward with that when I travel and, and, you know, continue to use my studio here in Colorado and have people here because it's, it's pretty great.[00:15:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Do you happen to have, and I know this is going to be a very difficult question to answer, but maybe one or a couple photos that you've taken that really stand out to you as being meaningful in? And I'm sure that, you know, that's, that's just such a hard question to answer, but you know, just something that stands out to you as being particularly meaningful, like you just, there's a memory attached or there's just something that just pulls at you when you see this photo?[00:15:53] Julie Ulstrup: Well, that's funny. And when you ask the question, you, you know, you predicated it with--well, it's really, it's like asking a mother who's, you know, which of your children is your favorite and I've...[00:16:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Exactly![00:16:05] Julie Ulstrup: I've taken thousands and thousands of photographs and what the stories are, what really evoke the emotion for me-- I had two of them, as soon as you said it, two of them came to mind. So I'll share those with you. I photographed a family last summer who was celebrating the parents were celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary and I actually photographed them with their children and their grandchildren on the day of their 50th wedding anniversary. And this was up in Estes Park, and the gentleman was not super healthy, but the family was really happy to be together. And we got these beautiful, beautiful photographs and they don't live in, in Colorado. So again, we did an online ordering session where they chose their favorites and I heard from the wife in February.[00:17:11] And she said to me that her husband had passed away at Christmas. And she said, "Julie, I don't know, I don't know if you know this, but those photographs mean so much to me. And they've really helped me through what has been a very difficult time." And so that kind of story is, I'm so grateful that I could do that for this family and that they have those memories and that those grandchildren will remember, you know, we had some formal portraits. And then there were some of the kids just laughing on their grandparent's lap. And so that those children, they will have those for generations. You know, they'll be able to share those with their children and their grandchildren. And so that was a very powerful experience for me recently.[00:18:06] And then I also do some work for a local nonprofit, and I do some photographs of women who were going through breast cancer treatment. And one woman came to me for portraits and she didn't have hair at the time. And she was not feeling well and she didn't want to be photographed. And she'll be like, "Well, look at me. I don't have any hair." And she wasn't excited about having her photograph taken, but she really wanted to give back to this nonprofit that had helped her. And we did a whole session with her, and she has therapy dogs, and she came back to see her photographs and they were all up on a wall. I have a wall that's, but I helped the matted and the prints made--I'm getting chills --when I tell the story. And she just, she just started crying. And she said the day that she came to see the photographs, she wasn't feeling well because she was still going through cancer treatment. And she said, these photographs show me that I'm very much alive.[00:19:23]Lindsey Dinneen:  Oh, wow.[00:19:25] Julie Ulstrup: Still beautiful. Oh, without my hair, even without the things that she thought of herself that made her beautiful and a woman and all of those things. So that was a very powerful experience as well.[00:19:43]Lindsey Dinneen:  That is incredible. I think you really, you completely nailed it when you were talking about it' s --I mean, you could, probably, from an artistic, from a professional standpoint, you could probably take the perfect photo of X, Y, and Z, but without the story behind it, it's not as impactful and, and, meaningful to you than when you have these incredible stories, like the two that you shared, where you, you were able to help somebody see a different perspective on them of themselves, or you were able to capture memories that will be cherished forever. And, and it's not just about this one, you know, photo or piece of art or music what's behind it. And I, I love that. That is so cool.[00:20:38] Julie Ulstrup: Thank you. Yeah, I do too. I, interestingly, now there are all these stories coming up in my head like, "Oh, I wonder how this family's doing" or that, you know, when people who come in with their baby or, you know, even high school seniors, I think sometimes families think, "Oh, I don't want to do this. We're just going to do something, you know, we'll do something on our cell phones or we'll do a selfie, whatever," and they come and they have this experience to commemorate the passage of time, to commemorate something that's important to them--their children growing up. Their, you know, our families growing older. Our families having babies and changing, and, you know, that's such a precious thing in this world that we live in that can be so...whatever it is amazing, beautiful, busy, crazy hard. You know, that there are these moments that really are meant to be cherished and to take some time to, to celebrate that --I think is really valuable.[00:21:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And I think, you know, maybe one of the things that's great about having a professional photographer do it is that you, you bring a different perspective to the family and you're able to draw out something different than maybe the mom who's taking a photo on her cell phone, which there's nothing wrong with that. But yeah, you're able to bring a little bit of a different take , I would say maybe as to, like you've talked about bringing out their personality or, you know, making sure that they know how special they are through your work, which is a unique way to go about it too. It's not just like, let's quickly capture this moment 'cause we need to. It's, let's cherish this moment 'cause we can.[00:22:38] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. Absolutely. And one of the things that I have found too is one of the reasons that people don't have professional portraits made is they feel like it's very stressful. They feel like, "Oh, I need to have the right clothes and I need to have the right hair. And I need all of, all of those things and where am I going to have it done?" Yeah. I really help people walk through the process and I make it very pain-free for them. You know, we talk about, "Okay, what are you going to wear? And what do you, you want to, what is the, do you want something casual? Do you want something formal? What's the feel that you want?" Even with a headshot, a person, oh, I, you know, you don't want to have a headshot. I'm just going to do-- Well, you know what, if you want to attract people into your business or whatever to watch your YouTube video or whatever it is. You want something that's going to be an expression of really who you are deeply and authentically, because like you said, Lindsey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a quick cell phone picture. Those are fun. You want to do those. You want to capture those times, and having something that's a little more thought out and mindful of really who you are, where you are right now.[00:24:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. I love it. Well, Julie, first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing about your work and about your heart behind your work. And, I really, really appreciate you sharing some stories with us about, you know, The reasoning behind what you do, but also just some of these amazing stories of lives being touched. So thank you for that. I really, really appreciate it.[00:24:40] Julie Ulstrup: You're so welcome. Thank you for this platform to be able to do that. I love it, Lindsey.[00:24:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.[00:24:53] Julie Ulstrup: Of course.[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?[00:25:03] Julie Ulstrup: Hmm, well, I believe I, I believe art is an expression and a like a, an interaction between the person who creates it and the person who's looking at it. And it's, it's a shared, it's a shared experience.[00:25:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful. Okay. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:25:40] Julie Ulstrup: Well, I think it's to connect. To connect with my self as an artist who I am so that I can connect with the people in my art and the people who are looking at my art, experiencing my art for many, many years.[00:26:05] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that connection is so important. Okay. And then for my final question--I'll explain a little bit about the terms that I'm going to use--do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is, so exclusive referring to an artist who creates a piece of, of art, whether that's, a photo or a dance or whatever it is and presents it to the world, but doesn't give much context behind it. So perhaps there's not necessarily even a title or a, the intention behind it or what inspired it or anything--just sort of here it is--and then up to whoever sees it to interpret it. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist does share a little bit maybe about the intention behind it or what inspired it, or a funny moment that happened, or just provides a little bit of context so that the audience has that alongside the art.[00:27:07]Julie Ulstrup: I think there's room for both of those, quite honestly. I think that sometimes when we create art--because I believe we are all artists, we're all creators--we might not even know what or why or how it came about. So I think there's room for that. And then I think there's also room for sharing my story around the creation of art. And I think that there is a difference for me as the artist and for the person whose portrait I'm taking. This is only in my case of art, but they will have a different interpretation around it. And often what I will do--when I work with my clients to see their portraits for the first time, I will be quiet --I will share my favorites of course, but I will let them experience it. And then I will share with them: "Oh, I love how we captured this expression and this part of you." So I think there's an exchange back and forth and sometimes having some context is really important. So I think there's room for both.[00:28:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, thank you again so much. And if anyone wants to connect with you either to learn more about your work or just connect with you in some other way, is there a way for them to do that?[00:28:48] Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. My website is my name, julieulstrup.com, and I'm also on Facebook as Julie Ulstrup Photography. So that's another good way to connect with me. Either one would be great.[00:29:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you again, so very much. I'm a firm believer that when you share art with the world, you truly make it a better place. And so I just want to say thank you on behalf of myself at least, but also on behalf of the world for you sharing your, your love and your passion for photography with the world. Because I think what you do makes a difference and creates beauty. So thank you for that.[00:29:34] Julie Ulstrup: You are welcome. Thank you, Lindsey.[00:29:37] Lindsey Dinneen: All right. Well, that is all for today. Thank you so much for joining us. And if this episode has left you as inspired as it has me, I would absolutely love for you to share this with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.[00:29:58] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:30:09] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have  incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out or dabbling or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level, they provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally, you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Grace Strachan! Grace shares about her passion for the art of sending out greeting cards every single day, and the value of giving to give. She talks about the impact that a simple, heartfelt greeting card can have on someone's life.  Get in touch with Grace Strachan: https://www.sendoutcards.com/u/greetingswithgrace | gracestrachan2014@gmail.comArtfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off all purchases! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 013 - Grace StrachanLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I  mean as long as you, and you're enjoying doing it, and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as so beautiful.[00:00:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey, I'm your host and so excited to be sharing more stories about art with you. And I am especially delighted today to have as my guest, Grace Strachan. She is an amazing person, super kind, thoughtful-- I can go on and on--very generous, just a wonderful, wonderful lady. And I'm so excited to have her on because she has a unique platform for the way that she shares art with the world. And, I don't want to spoil it, so I won't give too much away, but I am just thrilled to have her on the show. And just to share a little bit about what her experience with art has been and how she continues to, to bring art into the world. And I think it's just an incredible story. So without further ado, thank you, Grace, for being here today.[00:01:29]Grace Strachan: Thank you, Lindsey, for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here.[00:01:33]Lindsey Dinneen: And Grace, I would love if you would share just a little bit about, you know, who you are a little bit about your story, whatever you kind of want to share. That'd be amazing.[00:01:43]Grace Strachan: Thank you. Well, I actually, my background is in art. When I was a child, I actually took art lessons and had to go out and get a job to be able to pay for them. And so I actually drew and I also used to paint and I did photography. So my background was art. And then as I grew up, I actually ended up doing interior design. So again, very artistic, very color oriented. And then I spent the next, I dunno how many years of my life--I didn't end up doing interior design for very long . So I got to deal with your creative side, but I'm supplying, actually, products to the interior design, to market in commercial, as well as residential.[00:02:29]But then now something that I actually fell in love with and got to be creative in a new way. And, I really consider it a lost art, and that is the art of communication and the art of card sending. So it was something that was very close to my heart because my mother always taught me that if you didn't send out a thank you card and thank somebody for a gift, you needed to give it back because you didn't show gratitude. And because it became a lost art and now it's becoming a big art, and something that people are really appreciating in their life. Again, I'm quite excited to be a big part of that new movement.[00:03:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that is incredible. Yeah, so, so definitely I'd love to hear your stories about, you know, about what that experience has brought to you.  I knew about the interior design, but I don't think I knew about growing up as an artist. So that's so fun. Do you still, do you still do any of that as well? Any drawing or the photography or anything like that right now?[00:03:33] Grace Strachan: Well, I use the photography of course, for my cards and because I can download a picture onto a card.  I think you kind of suppress a lot of things. When I got married, it was just something that I just didn't do. And I'm seriously thinking about starting to maybe paint, draw again. And, I actually used to make my own clothes, too, so that's something I don't think I'll ever want to do again, but yeah, going back and drawing. And I think, yes, I think I'm seriously thinking about starting to do that again and maybe, drawing and painting and putting that on the cards as well.[00:04:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh yeah. Yeah. That would be amazing to have some of your original artwork on cards. That's really cool. So I would love to hear some of your stories about the way that writing and communication you were talking about . It's kind of a lost art. I'd love to hear more about your experience with that and, and just how it's impacted you and others, 'cause I know it's, it's really important.[00:04:37] Grace Strachan: Thank you. Well, I have a couple stories I'd like to share with you. One of them is probably my favorite. I've been taught by Cody Bateman who actually owns a company that I'm associated with, Send Out Cards, to act on promptings. And what that means is that when somebody comes to your mind, to act on that, because that usually means that either they need to hear from you or you need to touch them. And one of the stories that I wanted to share was I had a boss who was probably the best boss I ever had in my life. And I actually worked for him for 13 years out of the 15 years with the company. And I had not seen him in about three or four years, and one morning I got up and the first person that came to my mind was him.[00:05:23] And so I actually started, I actually decided to send him a card and you know, when I do something like that, I usually don't remember what I put on the card, but I remember that I wrote him a card and I pretty well said to him that he had been a mentor and that I had never, ever told him how much he meant to me. And that I felt bad that I hadn't ever told him that. But what I wrote, I don't really remember. I just remember that I felt good and I sent it. Well, three weeks later, I'm driving down, down the road in St. Louis with my other job that I had. And, I think pull over to the side of the road, 'cause my phone rang and there it was. And I hear, "Hey Gracious," which is what he called me. And I went, "Oh my goodness." And I couldn't believe it was Tom in this beautiful Southern accent. And I asked him how he was doing. And he said, "Good now." And I said, "Wow, that's great." And he said, "Yeah," he said, "I'm gonna tell you, I  just got back from a vacation. And we got our mail brought in. Oh, there's a card here from Grace." And his first reaction was, "Oh, I hope everything's okay."[00:06:35] Well, Lindsey, my heart went into my throat. Oh yeah. I almost broke into tears at that time. And I realized right then and there that I hadn't, it was, I mean, it was a lost art. I had not been keeping in communication with them. He said, so him and Jo, they sat down and they read the card. He said, "We cried. And now I'm calling you." And he said, "And I just wanted to let you know, you totally made my day." He said, "I cried out of, of love." He said, "I've never had anybody tell me what they really thought of me and how a great mentor I had been to them." And he said, "You've probably made my entire year."[00:07:20] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wow.[00:07:24] Grace Strachan: That proves the point of the fact that the written word is a lost art because we don't bear our hearts to people. We don't tell people what we think and how we think of them and share with them our true feelings. And that card was just a stock card out of our, our card catalog. And with a few words in it, it wasn't even very creative in any way, shape or form, but it affected somebody that greatly. The biggest thing I got from this too, was the fact that no more was I going to not stay in contact with this man, because he had been such a mentor to me and I have not talked to him in four years. And that is really, really sad. So that's my first story. The second story that I, that I was going to tell was actually a different one, but I, I actually had something happen in my life. I had lost my husband three years ago, and I'm going to tell you that when I received all the cards that I received in the mail from all the people that I knew in my life, I could literally cover a complete dining room table and three other tables with cards, just from people sending me sympathy cards and saying how much they love me, how much they, you know, they cared about me and they were sending prayers.[00:08:56] And a lot of those cards had pictures of my husband and myself in them, the best keepsakes I've ever had in my entire life. And that probably meant more to me than anything. And I left those cards up. It took me three months before I could take those cards down because I would literally every day go over and pick a different card and read it.  So it made me realize how much we, the lost art hasn't really been lost. It's just been kind of put on the sideline. And we're bringing it back, you know, it's not really a lost art. It's been a delayed art and now it's a part that's coming back.[00:09:41]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That is beautiful. And I'm sure you have probably a bazillion stories like that to share of people that you've touched, that you didn't even necessarily know why they came to your mind, but I love--so you have a very particular practice and I'm not going to spoil it for our audience because I want you to tell about it, but you have a very particular practice that you do, with the cards on a daily basis. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and kind of why that's important?[00:10:11] Grace Strachan: Yeah, we call them cards of gratitude. I get up every day and like I said, that that morning, when I sent that card to Tom, that was acting on a prompting. So I get up every day and the first person that comes to my mind gets a card. And again, that, that means something because you're giving to give and the beauty of giving to give is that when you give back, the universe gives back tenfold. When you give to get, and what that means is that when you give to get, you're expecting something in return. So like I said, when I sent that card to Tom, I didn't remember what I wrote in it. I mean, I just wrote it and sent it because that was my, my card of gratitude, telling him I was grateful for knowing him and having a part of my life.[00:10:55] So I, I do that every day. And actually the, the owner of our company, Cody Bateman, wrote a book on promptings and it, and that's what it is. It's a prompting and yeah, it's teaching you to touch people because when they come to your mind, they come to your mind for a reason. And so I do that usually every morning. And I try now to do it every night because I find that when I do it every night, I sleep better, because I've touched somebody from my heart before I go to sleep as well. So it starts my day off, but it also ends my day in a, in a really great frame of mind. And whatever I love about it is that-- the other story I was going to tell, and I probably should is one of my very best friends.[00:11:43] One day she came to my mind and I didn't know why. And I just said, Oh, so I'll just send her. And I just put in it something like, you know, you can't be everything to everybody, but guess what? You're the best to me, or something like that. Something very, you know, probably kind of corny. But anyway, I wrote it and I sent it and the next Friday, my husband and I, my husband was still alive-- we were at dinner and all of a sudden my phone rang and I thought, "Oh, I can't believe that she's calling me. She knows I'm out for dinner with my husband. So I got her voice message and all it was was "wmwmwmw," and it was just tears. So I'm thinking, Oh, I said to my husband, I said, "Yeah, I think I need to call her back, 'cause I think there's something major going on." I don't know what's going on.  I called her and she said, "Oh, I'm so glad you called me." She said, "I've had such a bad week. And you know, just everything had gone wrong and everything was bad. And, you know, we were supposed to be going camping and we weren't going to go. I was going to cancel it 'cause I've had such a bad week." And she just--and I went, "Okay, okay." And I said, "Are you okay now?" She said, "Oh yeah. I was ready to cancel our trip."[00:12:53] And she said, "And I just had this prompting to go to the mailbox and pick up the mail." And she said, she walked to the mailbox and there in the mailbox was my card. It was the only thing in the mailbox. So she walked back to the front stoop and she opened it up and started crying because she said it was exactly what she needed to hear, that she couldn't be everything to everybody. And that was what she had been feeling all week. And she said, she says, "I picked up your car and took it in the house and got prepared for the camping weekend." So what you send does mean something to somebody and it could be that, that one thing that might make their whole day.[00:13:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And I would love to hear your thoughts on, on the impact of words in particular, because I know that when you act on your promptings and you're sending these cards, you're obviously putting a lot of thought and care into the message that you're sending. And so I'd just love to hear a little bit about, you know, your process. So when somebody comes to mind and you decide to send them a card, how does it work from there essentially? Is there a particular pattern you follow when you write these cards, or how does that work for you?[00:14:08] Grace Strachan: Actually, you'll be surprised to know there is none. Amazingly enough, I learned very quickly that when the prompting comes, it comes for a reason. Now I've had things happen where I've thought, huh? Why, you know, I just talked to that person. Why did that person come to my mind? And what's weird about it is there is no rhyme or reason, and I've had it happen where, I've, I've literally sent a card, and that afternoon, that person called me and said, "Oh, you know, I needed to talk to you." And, and something stressful had happened to them that day or whatever. And I've literally gone back into our system because our cards don't get mailed or don't get printed until after midnight. And so I've literally gone back into the system and changed what's been written in the card because they've told me something that's been stressful or something, and I needed to add to it. But typically the cards I write, I usually get out of my head, because I think if you try too hard to think about what you're going to write, it doesn't sound like you. So normally what I do is I sit back and I calm myself and I say, "Okay, why did this person come to my mind?"[00:15:26] And a lot of the time it'll be guilt because I haven't talked to them for a while or I haven't communicated what I needed to communicate. And so then what I'll just do is just let, I really just let God do his work. And it comes to me and a lot of the time it can be maybe a phrase. It can be a couple sentences. I've been known to write paragraphs because depending on the person, but I really, there is no rhyme or reason. I just let my heart tell me what to write. And I've been known to only write a couple of words even. And I don't know, I don't know if that's affected somebody or not, because you don't, some people you hear from them, some you don't. I don't give to get, so I don't know. I've had people tell me six or eight months later, you know? "Oh, that card you sent me. I really appreciated it because such and such was happening that day." And, and, you know, and you don't know that that's happening. So I, I can't really say that there is a rhyme or reason to what I write, except that I don't try too hard. Does that make sense?[00:16:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, and I think that in, in and of itself is an art that you can allow yourself to sort of sit with that prompting and then from there, allow the words that come to you to go into your card. I think that that is, that is great. Like you said, you don't want to, you don't want to think about it too much. You don't want to kind of force it because then you're not being maybe authentic. I think that's really neat.[00:17:02] Grace Strachan: Yeah. Yeah.[00:17:03] Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. And I, I know, I know you touch a lot of lives through that and I think it's--you've said a couple of times that you, you give to give. And I think that that is really beautiful and, and really important, you know, obviously. So,  I'm lucky, I'm a beneficiary of some of the cards that Grace has sent and they're always so beautiful and thoughtful and, and I'll, I'll have her share a little bit later about the platform that she uses. But I just want to say that it is, it is incredible because with that particular platform, you get to kind of design the card to an extent, and you can include pictures and obviously your own words. So for example, from Grace, I've gotten a picture of my cast after we finished our Nutcracker production for the very first time. She sent me this cast photo and it, it's perfect because frankly I probably would have never printed it out. And now I have a framed copy of it, which is so lovely to be able to, to have that memory, you know, in, in print form. Well, Grace, I have a couple of questions for you if that's okay.  So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:18:22]Grace Strachan: Well, I think art is in the eye of the beholder. I really believe that. I consider art nature. I consider art beauty. I consider art feelings. I consider art love. I really believe that art is all around us. I don't think we appreciate art the way we should appreciate art. I get very sad when I hear about them taking art out of the schools. I just think that is the most, I don't know how to say it in a very polite way, but wrong. I'll just say it.[00:18:58] Lindsey Dinneen: There you go![00:18:59]Grace Strachan: It's just, it's totally wrong. One of the biggest reasons I, I got into art as a child was because I happened to have a very good school system where we were taught art. And so I took, and then I ended up taking art on, you know, outside of school as well. So I think art is so important and it makes people creative. It helps children blossom in so many ways . And I think we, we tend to not appreciate the art around us. I grew up in a small city in Canada. So I grew up with art all around me, and I've always been, I felt very blessed by that because to have the theater and having that around me, I think gave me a different aspect and a different look on life. I ended up getting into working in theater and doing makeup and, and doing some backstage stuff when I lived in Canada. And that is, that's something that I could never, ever, ever, be lucky enough to repeat again. So I think art is just everywhere and everything.[00:20:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I agree. I love that answer. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:20:14]Grace Strachan: To share their gift. To make sure that everybody is aware of their gift and to be proud of their gift. I think there's too many artists that, you know, I mean, I always remember hearing people say, "Oh, they want to be an artist. What are they going to do to make a living?" I find that sad. I find that very negative. I think what's wonderful about life now is that most people have more than one means of income. So artists have the advantage. Now there's a lot of ways that they can make a living, maybe not making okay, total living, but at least help support their art. And so I think the biggest thing is that people, when you have somebody that shows artistic talent, nurture that and, and have them share that with the world.[00:21:08]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, absolutely. Okay. And then for my final question, I'll explain my terms a little bit, but it's--do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is exclusive referring to when an artist creates something and they put it out in the world, and they let the audience take from it, what they will without any real context to it. So that means that maybe we don't know the intention behind it, or we don't know the way that the artist was feeling at the time, or even what they necessarily want to communicate. Versus inclusive referring to, you know, the artists create something and they share their intention with the audience. So perhaps that's program notes or they at least have a title and description, or just basically something so they can help the audience understand the intention behind it. Regardless of what the audience draws from it, if that makes sense.[00:22:09] Grace Strachan: Wow. That's heavy. That's a very, that's heavy, a deep topic. I think it depends on the art. Yeah. I think some, some art has to be very inclusive because I think there sometimes needs to be an explanation behind what the artist is trying to show. But exclusive also. I really cannot not say one or the other. I really believe that it should depend completely on the artist if they want to be inclusive or exclusive.[00:22:46]Lindsey Dinneen:  Well, thank you so much for sharing, Grace. I so appreciate the time that you took today to tell us about all those stories, about the impact of words and being generous and giving back. And I would love if you wanted to share a little bit about how people can get connected with you, even about the platform that you use.[00:23:06]Grace Strachan: Thank you so much. I would love to. Actually it is Send Out Cards and my Canadian comes out when I say "out," that's probably the only time people know I'm Canadian. And the best way to reach me is at www.sendoutcards.com/greetingswithgrace. And that is a platform that, that is my website. If you go there, please send a free card on me. Try out the system, take it for a spin, see what you think. And, and let me know. Another way to reach me is by email and it so, it's Grace and my last name is S T R A C H A N 2014 at gmail.com.[00:24:00]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yes. And I would highly encourage anyone listening who is curious about the platform to definitely check it out. It is just a really neat way to send cards that are very unique. Grace, you actually have a phrase that you've been sharing that I love. Do you know what I'm talking about?[00:24:21]Grace Strachan: I have a feeling, I know what you're talking about.[00:24:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay.[00:24:25]Grace Strachan: That we have a high touch product in a no touch world.[00:24:30] Lindsey Dinneen: Beautiful.[00:24:31] Grace Strachan: Is that what you were talking about?[00:24:32] Lindsey Dinneen: That's exactly what I was talking about. Yeah.[00:24:35]Grace Strachan:  People need to know that, what we, what I believe I do is that I take those memories, those photos, the artwork--a lot of the people have photos in their phones. I mean, what do you do with them? Look at them, right? Well, I can take those photos off of Facebook that you share, pieces of art, may put them into JPEGs or PNGs and, and literally put them on a card. And send them out to your grandmother, who you don't get to see; your mother, who hasn't been able to see you maybe in six weeks, and share a memory that is a tangible touch. It doesn't fade away. It doesn't go away in your mind. It is something that you can share with somebody else and share that love and memory forever. And what we send, people keep.[00:25:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I just want to say, Grace, on behalf of the world. thank you so much for sharing art. I think it's vital. I think it's so important that, that you are blessing people with--you have so much art, not just in that, in the card sending, but just in general. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I think you, I truly believe that when you do that, you make the world a more inclusive and beautiful and generous place. So thank you.[00:26:04] Grace Strachan: Thank you, Lindsey. And I just want to say one thing, you know, during this time, being, being kind and showing gratitude is kind of, and again, and I'm really hoping, I don't know about you, but I don't want to go back to the old norm. I want kindness and gratitude, love to stay around for a long time. So, amen. I hope if nothing great comes out of this time that we've had to put up with, at least this will stay with us for a long time.[00:26:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I absolutely agree. Absolutely. Well, thank you again, Grace, for joining us. Thank you for all the listeners who've joined us too. If this episode has left you as inspired as it has left me, I would be delighted if you would share it with a friend or two, and continue to spread art and joy into the world, and we will catch you next time.[00:26:55]If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:27:07] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have  incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling, or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase, and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome David Weinraub! He has been involved in professional theater productions, musical theater, and rock-and-roll bands, and talks about how his involvement with art has changed throughout the years with various life seasons. Connect with David Weinraub: https://www.facebook.com/david.weinraub.5Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArtist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 12 - David WeinraubLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told ,where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:07] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:13] Roman: All I can do is put my heart into the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever, really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.[00:00:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to have as my guest today, David Weinraub, and thank you so much, David, for joining me. I'm so delighted to speak with you today.[00:00:49] David Weinraub: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to participate.[00:00:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, I would love if you would start by sharing just a little bit about who you are and maybe some of your involvement in art.[00:01:01] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, my name is David. I am a child of the seventies and grew up playing music. That turned into a love of rock and theater. As I continued to grow and after college, I began pursuing a career as an actor and did that and was able to pay my bills for a few years and then found a part-time job that turned into a full-time job in an office that I really enjoyed, and realized I can still continue to do art no matter what. I could still play music, I could still act, but I could also--didn't have to pursue it as my full-time gig, and continued to act. I met my wife. We were the only two people with day jobs on a six night a week dinner theater show, and we dated, got married a few years later, had a kid, and then I kind of dropped out of the art world for a while.[00:01:55] I stopped performing when our son was born and I didn't get back to it until about three years ago, and I've been going nonstop ever since, and I love it. And I love that I can share with my family. I love that I can share it with the world, and I'm just having a great time continuing to make music and, and perform. So that's me in a reader's digest nutshell.[00:02:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Yeah. I mean, I know that there are many, many layers to your stories of course, but that's great. I'm so glad you're back into it. And I love that you met your wife through that. That is wonderful.[00:02:29] David Weinraub: Yeah, no, we would be, it was a dinner theater. So, you know, you, you get a paycheck just for performing, but you make more money by waiting tables, and we had day jobs and weren't able to get down to the theater in time for the dinner service before the show. So we would hang out backstage. It would just be the two of us, and that's how we really bonded and fell in love. So the theater has been great for us in many, many ways.[00:02:53] Lindsey Dinneen: It sounds like it. That is awesome. Wonderful. Well, I'd love to hear a little bit about maybe some stories of times where art has impacted you, or even hear a little bit about, you know, the various projects that you're embarking on now.[00:03:06] David Weinraub: Sure. Well, I guess my love of theater started in college. I was a Shakespeare fiend. I was an English major and I loved reading Shakespeare and analyzing Shakespeare, talking about it, and then my senior year, they were going to be doing "Henry the 4th," parts one and two in their entirety in the spring. And I decided in the fall, well, since they're doing it in the spring, I should audition. So they think I'm interested and then I can be a spear carrier, a soldier. And so I can just say I acted in one Shakespeare play. And I auditioned in the fall for a show called the "Prince of Homburg," which is a 16th century German piece very similar to the themes of "Henry the 4th."[00:03:52]So a young upstart Prince doesn't really know how to become a leader and goofs off a lot, but then becomes a leader in his own right. And, I, I got cast in a pretty good role and I loved it. And, then from that point forward, all of my focus turned towards theater. I was able to complete a theater minor in an entire year before graduation. And then right after college, I just kept going with it. So it started with the love of Shakespeare. I worked for the Annapolis Shakespeare--I think it's under new management now--but the Annapolis Shakespeare Company after college. I did some modern dramas and black box theaters in downtown DC, which no longer exist.[00:04:34] And then, I was auditioning a lot in New York while performing in DC and, then, fell into the dinner theater, 'cause I realized if I wanted to make money, I couldn't just do Shakespeare or weird modern dramas. The money was in musicals. And I played in bands in high school, in college as well. So I sang a little bit, but I started taking voice lessons and I got cast in a production of "Jesus Christ Superstar" as Pilot in the Giant Theater in Frederick, Maryland.[00:05:07] And, then I, I just kept doing musicals for awhile. And then I met Catherine and we got married. We worked together on four shows in dinner theater and then did a few more after we got married in community theater in the Northern Virginia area. And then our son was born, and that was amazing, but we dropped out of performing in theater and started attending theater. We became a Shakespeare Theater subscribers and Kennedy Center subscribers. And that was just amazing as well, just to be able to enjoy something from the other side, which when you're performing six nights a week, you don't have as much time to see.[00:05:42]I thought I still needed some sort of creative outlet when he was little, and then a friend of mine who I worked with who was in a band, asked me if I wanted to join his band. And the good thing about playing music--you can kind of take gigs when they become available to you, but also you can rehearse when it works for the whole band. All of us had day jobs. We were just, we called ourselves a bunch of old dudes who just got together and played when we could. And, we were getting more gigs, playing bars and stuff than we were able to take, because people travel for irregular job work and the children's calendars, you know, we had sports for our kids and stuff like that.[00:06:19] And we just played when we could. The band was called the Black Shag Sherpas, and I think they still have a website. I'm not sure if there are any original members left in that band or if they're still playing, but they played some great funky, weird rock, jazz hybrid music along with some covers. So that was fun. So I never stepped away from art or music. I just found an outlet. And then how I got back into it-- the dinner theater where Catherine and I had met closed down and they had a reunion picnic. So people who had worked there from the time it opened in the mid-seventies, till the time it shut down in 2016, everyone was invited.[00:07:06] And, I started talking to friends from the theater who I had not seen in 13 years, and I was telling them about playing in bands and they said, "Oh, you play in bands. Do you think you could get a band together to play the 'Rocky Horror Show?'" And I said, "I think I can." And that is how I got pulled into music, directing the "Rocky Horror Show" for the Workhouse Arts Theater in Lorton. And that's what started my journey into theater nonstop. Once again, began with the "Rocky Horror Show" in 2016.[00:07:39]Lindsey Dinneen:  Wow. That is a really interesting trajectory. I mean, you, you have dabbled in all--well, not dabbled, you're a professional; I didn't mean it like that--but you have gotten to experience so many different outlets for your art. And I love the fact that even if you couldn't do what you had originally started doing throughout your entire career, you've actually helped yourself grow as an artist. Would you say that? That, you know, because you've been able to do so many different things?[00:08:06] David Weinraub: Definitely! I mean, just sitting back as, as an active participant, as an observer, you learn so much from watching others and not, not that I would ever think, "Oh, I can do that better than so and so," 'cause I never thought that, but you, you can enjoy what they are doing and you can learn from the things you are seeing.[00:08:25]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Absolutely. Well, do you have any specific things that come to mind as inspiration for maybe a new direction that you took, or just an encounter with art that may have really impacted you and helped you on this trajectory?[00:08:40] David Weinraub: One of the more recent things I worked on, with one of your previous guests, was a production of "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" for Dominion Stage, which is a very difficult piece. Andrew Jackson is a very divisive figure, especially nowadays. He was a horrible, horrible man who grew the size of the United States a quintuple fold from what it was by doing awful, awful things, which were admired at the time by many. His story was turned into a rock musical before "Hamilton" and it ran on Broadway very briefly. It was not well received.[00:09:19] But, working with Dani Guy as the director, when she asked me to be involved, I wanted to, because I loved the music. It is just dirty rock and roll, which I love. And also the band gets to be on stage and interact with the other performers. So that's always fun. I was able to put together--I call them the best band in the world--'cause they are. And, we all listened to one another when we play and we listened to what's going on onstage. So if you show up night one, it might sound a little different than night two if someone plays something or acts in a slightly different way, we're going to react to it, the band or actors too. But working with this collaborative group of people, we made something really, really special and very poignant. And, you know, it sucks that there is no venue for live theater right now, nor should there be 'til it is safe to return to it. But to go out on a note like that was, you know, at the end of February, was not a bad thing to go out on it, to have in my recent memory.[00:10:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So Dani did share a little bit about her experience with that too. And it sounds like it was just an incredible experience for everyone involved and brought out a lot of conversation about art. I mean, did--what were the reactions that you kind of encountered personally, positive or negative?[00:10:39]David Weinraub: All positive in terms of, "This was a powerful piece." No one thought that we were doing anything wrong, who I spoke to. You know, we were pointing out, through beauty, we were able to point out some of the horrible things that have happened, and are continuing to happen, in this world, you know, through the power of performance, through the power of rock and roll, and dance and, and movement. I'm struggling to define what it was 'cause it is such a strange piece. But it was so beautiful the way it, it all came together. Does that make any sense?[00:11:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. She, she shared about getting some mixed reactions and how she, as the director, wanted to help everyone kind of navigate through some criticism that, you know, all art gets. I mean, we all have dealt with that at some point, and her outlook was so, so amazing to me because she just--I love her approach of using people's criticism to really think through a different perspective. And I think that's a really wonderful thing that she brought to that production in particular. So I know it's kind of, we're kind of in a weird place right now, but do you have anything coming up that you're excited about? Or how, how are you still able to kind of express yourself and be artful in these crazy days?[00:12:01] David Weinraub: Well, the amazing thing about artists is they always find a way to create, regardless of the circumstances. And I have many friends who have created online venues for us to do so. I've worked with a landless theater company as an actor. I did a production of "Puffs" with them last year, which is a "Harry Potter" spoof, and they are going to be releasing very soon some virtual performances. We recorded one, called "The Walking Fred," which is a spoof of "The Walking Dead," as told through the prism of the Flintstones.[00:12:41]So, we recorded it via Zoom and they're putting, you know, special effects on it to make it look like we're, we all have the same backgrounds and that sort of thing. So hopefully that will be coming out soon. So that was a nice outlet to be able to act. And then, I have a friend, who is an amazing actor-singer, and he's also, he, hosts a number of drag brunches and drag bingos as "Lips," and Lips has a new show, which is a virtual drag, a talent show, and he asked me to work on some songs for it. So I was able to write some songs and I, I'm a dirty rock and roll player. I like playing live with groups of people. You know, I will play one instrument at a time, with groups of people, but by doing it this way, and him asking me to write something, I had to learn how to use Garage Band that was able to record myself, you know, multi-track it.[00:13:34] So I'm playing all the instruments for, for this piece. So that should be out soon as well. So "Lips Virtual Drag Cabaret." So I'm, I'm finding things to keep me busy. I'm taking advantage of all that, that others are creating as well. Now that I have more time in the evenings, I'm watching it all. You know, there are so many people putting out--they're doing Zoom play readings. I was able to work with Dani again, and this was just for fun. I don't believe it was recorded, but as a stage reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," which is an amazing, Chekhovian, very dark drama. I don't think it was meant to be a comedy, but it kind of turned into one looking at it through 21st century prism. But we had a lot of fun just reading that. So there, there are always outlets to do things.[00:14:19]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yeah. Now you mentioned writing songs. Was that something you had done before, or is that a little bit newer to you?[00:14:26] David Weinraub: I have written songs for rock bands before, but I'd never recorded in a studio, you know, with engineers hanging around and stuff. But I never pursued it as something that I wanted to get out there and publish. The Black Shag Sherpas, which I mentioned before, we put out a four-song EP, which you could probably find online. But ever since then, since I got back into theater, I really haven't done any writing. So this was a nice outlet to do it once again. So this was just an, a fun, goofy, 1970s, disco rock. I was told to think of superheroes. So I was thinking of, you know, a combination of the "Wonder Woman" theme and, you know, seventies disco era Rolling Stones. And I put that together in my head to come up with a, with a theme song for them.[00:15:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, neat. Well, that sounds incredible. I'm sure that's going to be great. Yeah, that's really neat. So I'm just curious, how has--or if, if it hasn't, that's fine too--but yeah, I guess more accurately, has becoming a father changed the way that you view art or create art?[00:15:33] David Weinraub: Definitely. I'm always looking at things through, through my son's eyes now. Is this something that I think he would appreciate? Not that it always--I don't expect a, he's now 16 years old, so I don't expect him to like everything I like, and he wouldn't be a cool teenager if he did-- but, the answer is yes, it forces you to see things in a different way. And now thinking, like going to museums with him when he was very young, you know, we might take advantage of looking at an impressionist painting for the first time, but seeing it through the eyes of a three-year-old in a stroller, totally changes the way you take something in.[00:16:08] And not that he understood the brushstrokes or the whole backstory of the impressionist or anything, and he just appreciated the art for what it was, you know, to him and seeing something with that freshness without having the 20-plus years of your experience on top of it lends you to appreciate it in a new way, totally different take on this. I don't know if you've ever watched the television show called "Community" from 10 years ago?[00:16:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I have. I just actually recently got into it. What a fun show.[00:16:37] David Weinraub: It's a great show and I loved it when it first aired, but he was too young to watch it then. So, we were watching it together now from the beginning and something simple and easily accessible on Netflix, just watching it through his eyes and all of the, the pop culture references that it makes, you know, discussing them with him. And then going back if they talked about, well, you know, all that makes a joke about a Martin Scorsese film, then we can pause and talk about Martin Scorsese, and then we can go back and watch a Scorsese film together. You know, a "Good Fellows" the next day. So, always looking at things through new eyes is, is, you know, through someone else's eyes and someone else's experience--it's convenient when they're in the same house as you, so you can discuss it too.[00:17:21]Lindsey Dinneen: That's a great perspective. And it's, it's so interesting to hear how things change, you know, when you are getting the opportunity to experience them through somebody else's eyes, or with somebody who might also not share your opinion, and, and get to really explore that a bit.[00:17:39] David Weinraub: Yeah, definitely. And while my son has seen many of the shows that I've worked on in the last three years, there are some that he has expressed absolutely no interest in at all once I've told them about it. And, I did a very strange show at the DC Fringe Festival last year, as an actor. It was a show called "Inferno," which was a modern take on Dante's "Inferno" as a musical. It is not for everybody. It, it won like some Best of Fringe Audience Awards. But I, I didn't think that that was something--I told him about it-- and he said, "No, I'm not interested in something that weird at all." And he did not see it, but that's okay.[00:18:18] Lindsey Dinneen: It is okay. Well, and is he interested in being involved? Is he involved in the arts himself or does he just enjoy experiencing it or what does he like?[00:18:27] David Weinraub: He is a very talented drummer. I'm, I'm so jealous. I, I, that's the one thing I never took lessons in, so I don't really know how to play drums. I can fake my way through it, but he is really, really good and takes lessons. And, he started the FaceTime lessons during this time with his teacher, since you can't do it in person, but, yeah, so he, he has some musical ability. He does not like performing in front of people though. He's finishing up his sophomore year in high school. He does stage crew, and he has designed some lighting grids for one of the shows at his school, but he has no desire to act or to, you know, be in marching band or anything like that. And as long as he's enjoying himself playing drums, I want him to keep playing drums. But it's not something that we force, nor do we expect him to do anything just because we tell him he has to.[00:19:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, he's forging his own path. I love it. Well, thank you. That was so interesting to hear about your life's trajectory and also the different, really unique experiences that you've had and the ways that they've helped you grow and adopt as an artist. And so thank you for sharing about that.  That is really neat what you've been able to do.[00:19:47] David Weinraub: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.[00:19:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, if it's okay with you, I always like to ask my guests a couple of questions, completely subjective, just about your views on a couple of things related to art, is that okay?[00:20:00] David Weinraub: Sure.[00:20:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Great. Okay. So the first thing is, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:20:10] David Weinraub: That's not an easy question. I personally, I define art as anything that can enhance an emotion. I can go outside and I can see, you know, a turtle on my back deck who somehow found its way, you know, up the stairs to onto the porch. And, I find beauty in that and therefore that is art. To me, it elicits an emotion when it happens. Some people say that's where they see God in the world. And, I think in some ways, God and art are synonymous.[00:20:54]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that answer. That's a pretty unique approach to it that I've heard so far. And I, I like that perspective a lot. Thank you for that. So the second question I have is, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:21:12] David Weinraub: The most important role of an artist is, is to bring out that emotion. This is going to sound really cheesy, but the biggest compliment, I, I--the happiest I've ever been after getting a compliment after a show was when I was music directing "Rock of Ages," which is a very silly show, 1980s rock music. The band, again, is on stage the whole time, just as in "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." The show doesn't have much of a point though, but, if you had seen the show on Broadway, you might've had a fantastic time. If you had seen the show at the Workhouse, we made it look like a real bar and it was a small intimate space. The band was right in the audience's face and yes, we were very well rehearsed and we knew our parts, but we played from the heart. We didn't necessarily play every single note exactly as written. It was not slick. And so that's what someone said to me after the show. That moved me so much because that band was, was reacting to the crowd and reacting to the actors on stage. We weren't just playing, you know, it didn't sound like a recording to them. And, that is what an artist is supposed to do. We're supposed to elicit an emotion. And even if it's, you know, playing an REO Speedwagon song, if it works, it works.[00:22:32]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Okay. And then my final question is, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is inclusive referring to an artist who shares a little bit about their work with whoever their audience is. So if that's a dancer, perhaps they share what inspired the choreography, or if that's a painter, maybe it's a title or a brief description. Versus exclusive kind of referring to the artist puts their work out there and then leaves it open to interpretation.[00:23:11]David Weinraub:   I think art is always open to interpretation. However, I think that art should be inclusive. I don't think the point of an artist is to say only a few people can get this. If you don't understand what I'm doing, you are not a smart person. I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's right. I think that art should be made for everybody. Having said that, having participated in that reading of the "Duchess of Malfi," I'm not sure if you could put a production of the "Duchess of Malfi" on stage right now and expect someone who knows nothing about Jacobian-era language to understand every single moment of it. So you have to figure out a way to make that accessible to anyone who might show up. So it is on the, the artist's shoulders to, yes, allow for some interpretation of their art, but also to, to make it accessible to those who may not understand a hundred percent of it. Or like pausing "Community" when I'm watching it with my son, to explain the cultural references.[00:24:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, because it enriches the experience. Otherwise it would just go flying over and, you know, not be a point of education and conversation. That makes complete sense. Yeah. Love it. Well, thank you again so very much, David, for joining me. I really appreciate it. And I, am very passionate about art and about sharing it, and I'm very grateful for people like you, who do take what they have and what they've developed, their different skill sets over the years, and then they do share that with the world and they give back. And I think, when you choose to do that, you truly make the world a better, more beautiful place. So on behalf of myself, thank you for sharing art with the world. I know I appreciate it.[00:25:05] David Weinraub: And thank you, Lindsey, for bringing it to people's attention. This is a great forum. So thank you again for having me on.[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. And if people want to stay in touch with you, maybe find out about some of your upcoming productions, whether they're, you know, in person or online, is there a way for them to do that?[00:25:26]David Weinraub: So the best way to just follow me on Facebook, just my name, David Weinraub. I don't have any other social media outlets right now.[00:25:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Well, thank you again, David, for being here. Thank you to all of our listeners for joining us again. And if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love for you to share this episode with a friend or two, and I will catch you next time.[00:25:53] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:26:04] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products and courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Heidi Loubser! Heidi is a professional dancer and currently in school to earn her degree in math. She brings a unique perspective to art with her scientifically-inclined mind, and shares about the YouTube video that completely changed her dance training trajectory. Connect with Heidi Loubser: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3XhnMolqfEN56S8wJLGspwArtfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your podcast interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArtist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 11 - Heidi Loubser Lindsey Dinneen:  Hello! Welcome back to Artfully Told. I'm Lindsey and I am so excited to be sharing more art with you today. And I'm very privileged to have an absolutely wonderful person as my guest today. Her name is Heidi Loubser and she is a beautiful artist in many capacities, and I'm excited to hear more about all the different things that she does, but I know that she is an accomplished dancer and has been training, goodness, probably your whole life. So I'm sure I'll get to hear about that, but thank you so much, Heidi, for being on the show today.[00:00:45]Heidi Loubser: Yes. I'm excited.[00:00:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. And let's just go ahead and hear a little bit from you about who you are or your background, kind of whatever you want to share.[00:00:55]Heidi Loubser: Sure. So my name is Heidi, as she said, and I'm 21 years old. I was born in  Pretoria, South Africa, and I lived there until I was eight years old. So that definitely shaped my early life. And then I've lived in the US since then. I grew up with my mother and both of my two older sisters dancing. So that was just always normal being at the ballet studio, did the "Nutcracker" every year, and just got more into it. As I got older, I decided to move more into contemporary and modern dance and that really caused me to look other places 'cause the studio I was training at was wonderful, but didn't offer especially any modern. So that's how I ended up in Kansas City at a program called Storling's Artist Development Program, trained there for two years.[00:01:46] And that was really a great fit for me. I looked at college programs, but ADP was cheaper and a shorter time commitment and had more time in the studio, which is really what I wanted. I've also been in college sort of on and off part-time, full-time online in person, community colleges, all different combinations. And I studied math. I was studying physics and I've finally decided on math. So I have one year left of studying math and I dance with a company in town called Storling, and I'll be doing that again which I really love. So yeah, I think that's, that's pretty much me. I have the science brain and the art brain and I enjoy using them both.[00:02:34]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. So you only have one year left. Oh, that's so exciting. I kind of remember, you know, when it was like a little more into the weeds for a while, and I know that's--at least now you can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel there.[00:02:48] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. And the classes are getting harder. So I'm--but I know that there's a finish line.[00:02:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Good. Do you have plans for that degree yet? I mean, I know plans are so wonky these days, but in theory, do you have any thoughts about what you want to do?[00:03:09] Heidi Loubser: Right. So that's such a great question that has gone through so many transitions in my mind. Getting a college degree has always been an expectation in my family. It's also always been a privilege, definitely, that it has been possible in my family that I could pursue a degree. So that was kind of something that I just always knew: I'm getting a college degree. So the transitions have been in what my major would be. And then as I've progressed in dance and realized really just a few years ago that it was actually something I could do professionally, which I didn't know for a really long time, I kind of thought, "Oh, well, maybe I am not going to do whatever my major field is right away. So my degree most recently was actually in math, secondary education, so to teach in a high school, and I really would like to pursue performance, and other aspects of dance now, especially, as everyone says, while you're younger, take the time to do the dancing.[00:04:10]And then, I mean, my interest in general long-term is definitely in education. I teach dance currently, which I really love and want to continue to do and to invest in dance education. So I've always joked that if I could, you know, be a professor at a university and teach in both the math, science, and dance departments.  That, that would sort of be my dream that would require about three master's degrees. So I don't think that's what we're actually going to do, but okay, I don't know. Being a professor has always been of some interest. I also, I've grown more and more interested in dance science. A lot of people suggested sort of physical therapy and things like that to me.[00:04:51] And I'm really not interested in that. I remember I recently had a conversation with someone who's getting their masters in dance science and that was really interesting to me because I think especially as an educator, there's just a lot of practices I see in the classroom that I'm going, "Why are we still doing this?" You know, when we have the science to tell us what's helpful and what's not helpful. And then also there are just some standards that I see in the dance world that I don't think are healthy.  There's a crazy push for flexibility and just things like that.[00:05:22] So yeah, I can sort of imagine myself going into dance science, but I'm a people person. So I don't know that I want to live my life in a laboratory, but that's the only way I really see them connecting. I think otherwise it's more just the, the logic part of it, I think, you know, and the critical thinking aspect. I think that's just how I teach dance is from a very analytical perspective. This is, you know, the precise way you need to do this step to do it correctly. And I think about it in the same way that I think about math, rather than I'm trying to make this step look pretty or something like that.[00:06:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:06:02]Heidi Loubser: The plans are just, they're up in the air, obviously.[00:06:06] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course, of course. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I think, I think what's interesting is you bring a different approach to both your own performing and your teaching style. And I think that that's really unique and great, and I love--I think your approach is very in general, problem-solving, which I like, because I think that makes it a little more rich than simply--much more rich, to kind of have that approach rather than just like, "Hey, it's wrong. It needs to be fixed." But like "How?" because that's always a difficult thing.[00:06:39] Heidi Loubser: And how much of that is changeable? I mean, especially in dance, you're working with the physical body, so there's a huge amount of like, how much are we trying to induce a feeling or an experience for the audience, and how much is that tied to aesthetically what you can produce? Because there's certainly a correlation, you know? I mean, that's why we have techniques that try to develop dancers that can produce certain kinds of positions and shapes and movements, but on the other hand, is that ultimately what's giving the audience, you know, the experience that they're having? I mean, there's so much room for, for things like artistry and that to contribute. So yeah, definitely problem solving. How can we share what we want to with the audience?[00:07:25] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah, I love it. Well, I know you have at least one story to share with us, so I would love to hear what you have to say.[00:07:35] Heidi Loubser: Yeah. So when I first read your post asking for encounters with art, this is the one that immediately came to mind. And I think it was the first one because it was both--it was the first in a lot of areas, I guess, is the best way to put it. So there is a company in Houston, Texas called Ad Deum company, run by Randall Flynn, and they're a company that their vision really centers on the intersection of dance and Christian faith. They really strive to authentically share their faith and hope, love, joy, peace--these good things from the Lord--with their audience through their movement.[00:08:16] So I actually first discovered them on the wonderful platform of YouTube,  and what's amazing about Randy, about the director, is he's really put up a lot of their work on YouTube. So there are hundreds of videos that you can go watch. And especially in high school, when I was just trying to figure out what I thought about dance. And I was in a church, in a Christian school, and a Christian home, and really wondered, you know, what does dance look like in the context of my faith? And I found these YouTube videos and I started watching them and I was really blown away.[00:08:53] First of all, I had never really seen modern dance before, classical modern dance. And I just loved the movement, totally fell in love. So it was the first in that area, but then also they weren't necessarily using Christian songs or even songs with lyrics. They were using instrumental music. The piece I'm going to speak about was a song that's been used in tons of different contexts called, "This Bitter Earth."[00:09:18] And, I just stumbled across this video one day called, "This Bitter Earth," and I watched, and I was totally engaged. For one, I don't think I've ever been that engaged watching, especially a video with dance. It's so much better live, but I was really captivated, and basically the piece is just showing the tension between, you know, hope, but so many things to pull you away from hope in the world. At least that's really what I've experienced in the piece. And at the end of the piece, you know, there's two people that are circling in the middle and then there's people running around on the outside and it gets faster and there's more movement on the outside.[00:09:56]And at the very end, these two people are looking away from each other. It's maybe a six minute piece and they just grab hands and they look at each other and it was really powerful for me. And I know that sounds super cheesy. There are so many pieces where it's like the look, the dramatic moment. But I, I think it really worked because it wasn't, it wasn't over done. They weren't necessarily trying to make a big dramatic moment. It was just sincere, sincere human connection of like, it's going to be okay. You know, there are a lot of troubles in this world, but like hope really is a real thing.[00:10:35] And then that same year, actually, I loved this company so much. And I, as I said, was just in a season of exploration and in the dance world. I took a Greyhound bus to Houston, stayed in a hostel and went to this company spring intensive, and they actually performed that piece. It's choreographed by Steve Rooks in their studio. They did a little in-studio showing, which was really special for me to see it live. And I've had the opportunity to see it multiple times since then. It's been performed other places, but it was just very, very touching in terms of-- you know, you're not giving me a message and you're not saying words, but I'm really experiencing the virtue of hope is really, I think the best way I can put it.[00:11:19]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, it sounds like that kind of helped you--well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, this is just sort of something that I kind of got from it-- it sounds like it really kind of helped you, realize maybe a little bit more of, of how your faith and dance could intersect.[00:11:36]Heidi Loubser: Yes. It's not necessarily, it has to look like this, but just, this is an option and I don't think it was an option I had seen or experienced before. Not that you can't do it a different way. Not that you always need to intentionally intersect them, but just this is possible and this can be really powerful. So it was such high quality dancing. And I think that was also huge, you know, because I had seen Ballet Magnificat, which is a beautiful company. They do really amazing work, but as I said, I had never seen really modern dance. And so I think it was just that like, wow, it is an option to do modern dance and to share really good and beautiful and powerful things. And to not have to use words or to be direct, you can truly use the art form of dance. It was just so cool to, like, see that option.[00:12:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And from that, sort of launching point for you, how did that kind of change your trajectory as far as--I mean, I know you mentioned, you know, you'd grown up more in ballet and then were trying to explore more contemporary modern-- is that what pivoted you towards, towards that? Or how did that then impact the rest of your, your journey?[00:12:53] Heidi Loubser: Hm. So I actually, I had begun exploring contemporary modern before, and I actually, I'm realizing I wasn't quite truthful earlier. I saw that piece maybe two years before I went to Houston. I wrote a paper my senior year of high school. I was in a course called Communication and Culture. And I wrote a research paper abou, Christianity and art, and what it meant to be a, quote unquote, Christian artist. And I talked about this specific piece in my paper. So I actually started exploring contemporary modern because I was having issues in my Achilles tendon from doing a lot of pointe work.[00:13:31] And so that was kind of the point. So it wasn't necessarily about it being more serious or anything to do with integrating my faith. I think the greatest thing about going to Houston was I met several people from Kansas City when I went to that intensive. And they're actually how I found out about the opportunities in Kansas City. So that was really the biggest influence, but for sure, I mean, it's influenced the work that I create or even--yeah, last  Christmas, I was performing at a performance called "Illuminate the Arts" by Arts Inspired Network. And I decided to not fully choreograph my work, but just to pick a song, sort of pick a theme, come up with a few phrases, and I felt free to improvise it.[00:14:19]And that was, that was really fun. And sort of maybe an example of how I've integrated those sorts of things. I first saw it at Ad Deum. I think it's still in progress. I have a lot to learn. So maybe in about a decade, I'll have some more answers for you. Still figuring it out. But yeah, that initial vision I think is still there.[00:14:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. So do you foresee yourself continuing to pursue more along the avenues of modern and contemporary rather than more classical movement? Or are you kind of open or?[00:14:57] Heidi Loubser: You know? I'm open. I think there are so many different factors when it comes to what you form. There's the movement style. There's the content, you know, what are you sharing through the movement? There's all the logistical implications of the time, commitment, et cetera. I think for me, what's really come out on top of the priority is that we truly care for the audience and that we're trying to give them something, and that I'm not just on stage, that I can have a good time.[00:15:32]I think that's really--that generosity, I think, is the best word--has really come out on top for me is the main thing that I care about. So I think when I see that somewhere, then I ask questions about the movement or about the specific storylines that they're telling, et cetera. Yeah, I would love to do more modern and to learn more techniques. I'm not totally sure where I'm headed. Obviously as an educator, always wanting to get more professional development, to have more to share with my students.[00:16:03] So there's definitely a draw there to study more modern. But I think, I think the biggest thing really is just, are we trying to offer something good and true to our audience? And if that's true, then I'm--I don't know--I'm willing to try something new. I'm willing to learn a new style if I feel like that is happening.[00:16:24] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's a good kind of baseline standard to have. And so then, then it's easier to kind of navigate your opportunities. If it meets that standard, great, then maybe that's something to explore, and if it doesn't, yeah well, it's not for you. Yeah, I think that's, that's wonderful to have that kind of a clear, I dunno, set of guidelines that are things to kind of ponder.  Well, I have a few questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you.[00:16:48] Heidi Loubser: Yes, I'd love to hear them.[00:16:50] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. All right. So first of all, how do you personally define art, or what is art to you?[00:16:58]Heidi Loubser: Oh, gosh, we're jumping right in. Oh![00:17:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yes.[00:17:03]Heidi Loubser: Well, I'll, I'll just start off by saying, I honestly don't completely know. I feel like the word is so it's thrown around so much that it-- I find myself in a conversation, I'm responding to how that person is defining it. Do you know what I mean? As long as we can commonly define in this conversation where this is what we're talking about, then that helps me.[00:17:29]I think I maybe have a classical definition of visual art, performing art, you know?  I do think there's some amount of emotional tie to it.  I mean, even if I go out and look at the sunset, I think that can be, I guess, an artistic experience. I guess to me, it also really depends why we need to define it. So for example, if we're trying to define it for a grant process, you know, to decide who can apply, that's really different than trying to define it for the sake of my worldview .[00:18:03] I tend to sort of go, okay, what category, what sphere of life are we in? And what is it applied to in this situation? Because if we're in school and we're talking about needing to give kids art classes, you know, as opposed to all the classes they already have, we're probably talking about a specific arts skill, such as drawing, singing, you know, playing an instrument. Even though the general idea of being creative, which I think some people would say, well, art is basically creativity. Well, I promise you, you need creativity in math. I mean, the kind of math classes I'm in there is no formula to find the answer anymore. It's literally, here's your differential equation. You need to guess the solution.  You know, if you see artists' creativity, well, that's very artistic. You need a lot of creativity. So, yeah, so that's why in my mind, that's too broad. I mean, everything has an element of art in it then.[00:18:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Well, and, and, like art, you know, it's subjective. Everyone has a different kind of opinion on that. But yeah, so you're saying like, it depends. So you would define art in different contexts. So like, it depends on the context that, that the conversation is around how you would necessarily define art. Is that correct?[00:19:14] Heidi Loubser: I think so. I think if I'm trying to one sentence to it, I mean, art is the act of creating . You know, we take one resource and we transform it into another. We take a body and we mold it to do certain things on stage. We take clay and we turn it into a sculpture. So maybe, yeah, the act of creating, if I had to boil it down to a phrase, but if you ask me in a year, I'm probably going to have a different answer.[00:19:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.  I've not heard it said like that before, and I think that that brings up a very good point of the context does matter.  Well, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:19:50] Heidi Loubser: So, okay. Maybe this isn't a role but I think I would say--to be telling, or, you know, in dance or other forms we're not telling, but to be sharing the truth. I think of artists in some ways is a huge part of like the global marketing team. I mean, if you think about what people's opinions or worldviews or just what they believe about it, any number of things, art is often a huge part of, of how they got there. You know, we're not creating those ideas obviously, but I think artists are usually the ones expressing them or propagating them or suggesting that this is closer to what it should be, what we should be fighting for.[00:20:35] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:20:35] Heidi Loubser: Or even if it's, as artists are bringing joy and we're just bringing some humor and laughter and, and entertainment, you know, which is totally real as well, that's suggesting that that's valuable in life, right? So in my mind, there's a lot of different things you could be expressing with art, but it's the most important thing for me is just that what you're expressing is, is true. It lines up with reality, which doesn't mean that it's not fictional. I mean, obviously you could do a play about a fictional story, but you're, you're sharing truth through that. Not that it's factually correct, but you're, you're promoting and you're encouraging things in life that are really important and matter.[00:21:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think truth is really important in art.  Good answer. Okay. My final question, and I'll define my terms a little bit-- do you think, and just again, in your own opinion--that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And here's what I mean by that. So with exclusive, we're talking about an artist putting their work out into the world and not necessarily providing any particular context behind it so that the audience can take from it just what they want? Versus inclusive kind of referring to an artist that, you know, includes the program notes or has a description, or essentially you understand what the artist's intention was behind the piece, regardless of what you draw from it.[00:22:07]Heidi Loubser: I've had a number of conversations about this topic, especially with my parents actually, because they very much, they always want more information. They always want to know what the artist intended. They're frustrated when they don't understand, which has been really helpful for me actually, especially from my father, because he's not a dancer. And so to go, okay, someone on the outside is looking for more information. If I have to choose one, I think I'm going to say inclusive. I, I think the way that I prefer it to happen is that the information is there, it's available, but it's not forced on the audience. You know? So I think, for example, putting it in a program note is a really great way to do that.[00:22:51] The program is free at the door. They can read it if they want to. What I often choose to do personally is to read it afterwards. You know, I want that information, but I like to sort of just watch the piece for itself. If we're talking about dance first and then to hear what they had to say, but I also am trying to become more sensitive to the idea that there are a lot of people that feel totally lost. They feel stupid that they don't understand art. And I think, you know, if you teach, if you expect someone to read English, I mean, we taught them the letters, right? We taught them what each word means. You don't expect someone to pick up an English book and understand it if they don't know English.[00:23:30] And I think in some ways, you know, like dancers, sculpture painting can be a whole other language. Oh, well the color red symbolizes this and the color blue symbolizes that and giving them that information is helping them to, quote unquote, "read" the painting. So, yeah, I would say yes, inclusive, but I also know that there are some artists who--they're specifically creating work for the intention of having other people interpret it through their experiences. So almost like therapy. They really, they don't want people to know their backstory. They want people to process their own experiences. And I think that can be helpful. I mean, I often think maybe if they would say that more clearly that people could walk away with more--if they know, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do in this scenario.[00:24:19] Because I think sometimes people don't know that they're supposed to do that, or even that they're invited to do that. And so they're just scared. But yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say inclusive 'cause even as a dancer, as someone who's familiar with this world from the inside, there are still times when I wish I had more information. And so it's sort of like, if I wish that, then surely people who don't know this language at all, who've never been in a studio are going to want some level of context.[00:24:48]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Love it.[00:24:51] Heidi Loubser: These are great questions. Wow.[00:24:54] Lindsey Dinneen: It, you know, and it's so interesting because it brings up a lot of interesting points and people have, have shared very different opinions on it. And I think that's important too, to have those conversations about sort of even just why you believe what you believe. Well, thank you so much again, Heidi. I really appreciate you sharing your stories and your insights. Thank you for sharing art with the world. I am a firm believer that when you do create and, and, you know--kind of referring back to what you were talking about earlier--when you're generous with your art and your heart and soul really come through with-- whether you're dancing or writing or solving problems when you're giving-- there's, there's so much power and beauty that comes from that. And I truly believe it makes the world more beautiful place. And so I just want to say thank you for sharing. Well, thank you so much again to everyone who has listened to this episode. And if you feel as inspired as I do right now, I hope that you'll share with a friend and continue to share art with the world in that way. And I just want to say thank you, and we will catch you next time.[00:26:07] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:26:18] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills and emotional intelligence. For people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching. And she is an awesome person who uses all of her business background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different products, courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you're a wanna-be artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artist that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Katheryn Krouse! She shares her journey from studying to become an art teacher to a full-time professional artist, and how her diagnosis of Stargardt disease led her to her unique take on painting and artwork. She also shares how her cat, Ewok, has been her inspiration too!  Get in touch with Katheryn Krouse: https://www.facebook.com/Katheryn.Krouse.Art | https://www.instagram.com/kkrouseart/ | https://www.etsy.com/shop/KatherynKrouseArtArtfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interviewArteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off all purchases! Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 010 - Katheryn KrouseLindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome back to Artfully Told. I am so excited to be here with you today. I'm Lindsey, I'm your host, and today I am delighted to have Katheryn Krouse on the podcast as my guests. She is a beautifully accomplished visual artist and she does a lot of different paintings, and she's going to actually share with us all about it. So I don't really want to spoil it very much, but she is local to Kansas City and a lot of her work is actually based in the Kansas City area. But anyway, thank you so much for joining me, Katheryn. I'm so happy that you're here.[00:00:40] Katheryn Krouse: Aww, thank you for having me.[00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! Well, I wondered if you wouldn't mind just sharing just a little bit about yourself and maybe kind of what you're up to, you know, nowadays, especially in this kind of odd time of life.[00:00:55] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, it is, it is a really bizarre time. But yup, I'm a local artist. I grew up in Overland Park and then I went to school at KU, and after graduating in 2012, I moved into my downtown apartment, which is also where I operate out of, and as my art studio. So I've been doing this full time since 2013 and I just, I just really love how that Kansas City kind of allows and can afford enough opportunities to make all of that possible.[00:01:28]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Super supportive of the arts.[00:01:30] Katheryn Krouse: So it's kind of a bizarre time, you know, with the quarantine. It's also kind of, you know, enjoyable too though. I mean, it allows us artists to really be able to focus on our art and even experiment and try different things. And it's just, it brings us back to really focusing on the process and the creative, you know, experience behind it. I actually love working from home. So while it's an interesting a adjustment for a lot of other people, I, I have actually gotten really good at it. And I, and I enjoy it. I love being able to like take little breaks and cook a nice lunch or prepare, you know, I just love operating out of my home.[00:02:10]And I get a lot of inspiration, you know, out of like the views, and you know my apartment's right off 11th and Grand. And so it overlooks downtown North and West, and I've always wanted to kind of capture the views that I get so much inspiration from, you know, whether it be during a storm or sunset or different, different lighting. I've always kind of wanted to capture that.[00:02:33] And so I'm actually working on a series right now that kind of addresses quarantine. But it's just my house plants in the windows overlooking, you know, downtown. So each wall, each painting is a little composition of the window, but the plants are in the foreground and they're very textured, very thick impasto paint, which is really luxurious for me to work with. And each one together, they tell us a narrative that kind of captures this bizarre time where the streets were very quiet. There's there's no traffic. But inside, the plants are thriving and full of color, full of light. So it's kind of a fun series.[00:03:14] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah, well, that is a great, I love that idea of having such a dynamic contrast between, like you were saying, the outside and the inside, but they're still full of life. And, and I think that's actually--I actually really love that as a metaphor, just in general, as, as you know, as an artist you're still dedicated to kind of bringing that beauty to, to the world, no matter what the circumstances are. I think that's really neat.[00:03:42] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, absolutely.[00:03:44]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know kind of even, your backstory a little bit. How did you even get involved with art in the first place? What led you to a career as a professional artist?[00:03:56] Katheryn Krouse: So really I've always made art. Even as a little girl, I loved getting, I mean, those were my Christmas gifts and birthday gifts were always some form of art materials or art supplies. I, I've just always loved, started off painting my cat or painting, you know. I wanted a dog really bad, so I would start drawing the different dogs that I might want and, you know, just, I loved  and coloring and drawing, from as long as I can remember. And I remember in high school actually feeling this pressure that I think a lot of people can relate to where we're just pressured and were asked over and over again, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" And how intimidating that felt? And I remember looking around and I was actually very close with my high school art teachers and they were so silly and fun and our class was always a good time and they just loved what they were doing.[00:04:53] They had summers off for summer vacation and they're able to sell their own art on the side at art fairs and different galleries and whatnot. And so I just, I just love that that really appealed to me and it, and it seemed feasible way to kind of continue doing art and also enjoy what I'm doing. So I actually, I went to school at KU and I studied that. I studied art education for three years. And then, and during that time really enjoyed all the studio classes I took and the art history, and I just really enjoyed and really felt confident that that's what I wanted to do.[00:05:34] However, my junior year, I was actually diagnosed with this eye condition called Stargardt's disease, which, you know, no one in my family knew what that was. No one had ever heard of it. It just seemed really bizarre, but basically I was having a hard time reading size 12 font on the computer screen. So I was used to writing papers and filling out, completing assignments. And I was realizing that I was getting closer and closer to the screen and I would strain my eyes.[00:06:05] And so we went to our family eye doctor, and it just became one referral after the next to different retina specialists. And I was diagnosed with a severe case of Stargardt's disease which is a macular degeneration in my retinas. And the best way I can describe it is that I interpret my light values to be a lot brighter and my dark values a lot darker.[00:06:31] So for example, if it's really bright outside and someone is standing in front of a window, that contrast makes it really kind of difficult for me to recognize them or right away kind of adjust to that. And so that became something that I really enjoyed communicating through my work. I started experimenting with really vibrant color palettes that kind of communicates a visual vibration for the viewer who's not visually impaired. Like it still gives the viewer something different visually. And that's also why I like working with a lot of texture. I think that gives the piece something different for the viewer to look at whether they're close to it versus for far away, it kind of evolves under different lighting and that all kind of started.[00:07:21] Then I started, I had this like really weird year. That meant like processing all of this, but I also started making really, really cool art and that became healing. And it was really about experimenting with texture and experimenting with different colors that it just became really a lot of fun. And also during this time I became skeptical that being an art teacher was really what I wanted to do. I was taking higher level courses about and learning about the curriculum and also learning about how competitive it was going to be to land a good job in a good school district. Unfortunately a lot of the schools are getting cut budgets, you know, that they're losing their budget for theater, art music.[00:08:11] And so it was very competitive, and I believe still is, to get a job like that. And, frankly, I didn't have the best grades that year. That year it was a difficult and took a toll on my grades certainly. So it just, it wasn't seeming so realistic. And then at the same time, my eye condition was progressing. Within six months, I wasn't able to drive. So it was kind of bizarre. I'm not running into things, but I have what's considered low vision enough to the point where I can't drive. So it wasn't feasible, it just didn't seem feasible to be driving in and out of, you know, suburbia to these good schools that I'd hopefully land a job.[00:08:53] And so I ultimately made the decision that I didn't want to be a teacher at all anymore. I just, if I'm going to be competitive, I'd rather just be a full-time artist. And that's kind of also--I moved downtown to where I am because I'm very mobile. At one point, every bus route in Kansas City stopped at 11th and Grand. I'm just a couple blocks away from the street car. I mean, I love being still independent in that way.[00:09:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so you changed direction. Did it take you--you mentioned like a whole year being really challenging, of course, as you're wrestling with this and trying to figure out, you know, what that means for you as an artist, but, so, so then when you change directions, you kind of dove right into your--[00:09:42]Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, I took a nose dive. It was the summer in between my junior and senior year that I did my very first art fair, which was the Missouri Wine Festival in Excelsior Springs. And it was at the Elms Hotel. And before that, I mean, I had no idea that this would really work. I mean, I, I think I had about 10 or 12 paintings and they were all only priced around a hundred dollars, but I sold all of them and it was like, "Oh my gosh, $1,200."[00:10:12] I mean, I felt like such a victory that I was like, "Oh my gosh, if I just do enough of these art fairs, and have a better inventory and, you know, get a better booth." So that it's, it only becomes easier. I, it really occurred to me that people actually do buy original art and they do like having a connection with the artists even, and that you can achieve all that at these art fairs.[00:10:38] So, I think it was really--all that kind of happened at the same time. Like I was becoming skeptical that I really, that I was a good fit to be a high school art teacher. And also like that I could actually pull off being an artist full time and that that's, you know, that's another reason I love Kansas City so much is that I can afford a lovely apartment downtown that has, you know, the master bedroom is my studio space.[00:11:07] So it's on a corner unit. So it has four huge windows that natural light just pours in and, you know, to have a workspace like that is just so valuable to me. And to be able to operate full time out of this, but to have enough opportunities in Kansas City, that it can really afford me to do this. I mean, I've, I've considered moving to Austin several times. I do a show there twice a year. So this Pecan Street Festival I've done 10 times, and just going twice a year, it usually ends up being about a third of my income. So I actually quit. Yeah. I've thought about, maybe I should move there and do a couple shows in Kansas City. But the thing is, is that it's so expensive.[00:11:52] I mean, there's no way to just afford to do this full time. I'd have to have another job, much smaller apartment, a much like, a much weaker studio space. Yeah. And it's just like, wow, that does make Kansas City just so charming. To both have to both be affordable and have that many opportunities still.[00:12:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's something I've always appreciated about Kansas City since moving here. Cause I'm, I'm not a native, but when I moved here, I realized immediately how strong the arts community is here, but also how, how supportive of the arts community Kansas City is. So even if you're not necessarily an artist, I mean, you're participating in art in some way. And I love that.[00:12:38] Katheryn Krouse: Yes. Yeah. That's so cool. I mean the different events, I mean the Kansas City Fringe Festival, I mean, there's so many events that make it so accessible to everybody that it's, it's inclusive and, and a lot of the artists are that way too I've noticed. I mean, I've met some of my best friends through, through doing this that's all people that are doing the same thing. And, and I just love it that so many artists here have share the attitude and that we're all in this together. And that there's enough room for all of us and it's right, you know, it's competitive, but it's also very, very inclusive in nature.[00:13:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Yeah. I highly value that. I haven't found that anywhere else so far yet. But yeah. Yeah, no, that's amazing. So then I know that, because you've been on the road quite a bit and, you know, you have all these different festivals and art fairs that you participate in. I'm sure that. Some pretty interesting stories have emerged just from, you know, having to, having to deal with different aspects of, I don't even know because I'm not a visual artist, but like transporting your art, and I'm sure all of that plays into some interesting times.[00:13:51] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, it sure does. I mean, one of the things I can say is that it's definitely handy to be resourceful because it always seems that something's coming up to make it more difficult. I remember when I first started dating my boyfriend, we went out like a year before I even let him come close to an art fair because I didn't want him to really see how, how brutal it actually is. I mean, he thought that being an artist was like a glamorous thing. And so, the very first art fair I actually took them on was a trip to Chicago and it was for an art fair. So we put a hitch on his, on his car and we, we're hauling all my stuff up and I just remember wanting to impress him. Like I wanted it to go so smooth. I wanted to have everything just ready and just very easy.[00:14:40] And of course the whole trip, it couldn't have been anything further from that, but like, you know, I'm running behind and we weren't able to leave on time and my paintings weren't dry. So it was all the typical things that I was really hoping to avoid this time. And we get there and this show in Chicago, it's set up is especially, I'm trying, it's very unorganized and it's just part of it. You just have to kind of get there and laugh with it and not let it bother you 'cause it's a long day. It's like early morning set up and it's just not worth getting all worked up over. And it's like that every time.[00:15:18] And so we get there and we're in line for set up and it just starts pouring rain. And we're talk...we're laughing or we're telling ourselves, oh well, at least it's not thundering. And then of course it starts thundering. I mean, I think it started raining for a little bit and we're just waiting, pulling up closer, closer to our booth setup. I mean the whole show. Yeah, set up couldn't have been worse, like yeah, of course.  It was also the first year that I expanded to a double booth. So I was used to having a 10 foot by 10 foot booth space to work with. I was very familiar with like how much art at that takes to fill up and all of that. But since I just expanded to a double booth, I was still unsure that I had enough art.[00:16:02] I was stressing. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't have enough art. I don't have enough art." That's why we didn't leave on time. 'Cause I was still finishing things and I actually made this painting not too long before this for my bedroom. And this was a painting I really painted for me. I didn't have the intention of selling it and it was very large. It was 42 by 70, and it's this beautiful, colorful, loose rendering of a nude and the way she is, it looks like she's kind of looking out my window in the bedroom and it's just like a very fast paced, loose, colorful painting, but I really did paint for me and it was a healing piece, but because this was the first time I'd had a double booth, I was thinking, "Oh, I'll just bring that with me, just in case I don't have enough art." I'll put a really high price tag on it, because if somebody does love it, I would feel good about selling it actually, but I really kind of just want to bring it up. And somehow we lost that painting. I mean, it was the funniest, this is our thing. We're, yeah, and I don't know whether it happened during takedown, but it ended up being a great show.[00:17:09] I did have enough art. The storm cleared up and it ended up being a very, very good show in sales and everything. And it was good for my boyfriend to kind of experience that all in its entirety. And we're just exhausted and we're driving back home and we're about halfway, we're about halfway home or in St. Louis. So all of a sudden my trailer breaks down. The wheel bearing, it turns out gave out or broke, I'm not sure. Matt was driving and he all of a sudden sees that the wheel is just all over the place and we're in a bad part of town. We're in East St. Louis, it's getting late and we have to pull over to denny's in the parking lot.[00:17:56] And he says, "Yes, we can't drive with this." And I'm just like, "Oh man, this is the worst thing I can imagine happening." And, we, we weren't sure what to do. I was actually already in the market for another trailer, this trailer that we had, I had had for a long time. I bought it when I was getting started and it was a great deal. It was actually a trade. I think it was like $500 and a painting, but it was for a good, enclosed five by eight trailer, but it was a Harley Davidson trailer and it was very heavy. And so it's a lot of wear and tear on whatever vehicle is pulling it. And it was just time for an upgrade. It was a great thing to get me started.[00:18:37]But I wasn't sure, you know, we were in East St. Louis. It's getting late. Like what do we do? It occurred to me: we could rent a U-Haul trailer, but that just seemed awful. 'Cause we'd have to unload it, load it, get to Kansas City, carry that all up into my apartment. I mean, that just sounded awful. So I ended up getting on Craigslist and finding a trailer. I bought a trailer. I had made just enough cash on me from the art fair in Chicago that ended up buying, I bought a trailer on Craigslist right there. So we have to unload everything from the trailer. And it's just this big pile of debris. I'm sitting in my director's chair and not having the idea that we should, we shouldn't just leave the trailer here. And I just wasn't in a position where I could necessarily afford towing it. Really, it took all my cash to buy this trailer on Craigslist.[00:19:32] So we had the good idea to take it to a junk yard and sold it for scrap metal and for the tires. And then, then he came back with the trailer that I had bought from Craigslist. And this whole time I'm just looking, overlooking all my stuff. I'm watching the storm come in and I'm like, that's certainly not going to hit us. And sure enough, it starts raining and pouring it. So I'm pushing all my stuff under this awning at Denny, and I'm looking around and I'm grateful. I'm like, Oh, good. That big painting for my bedroom, that must be in the vehicle, 'cause it's not here looking at all this stuff under this awning. And when he came back with the new trailer, I noticed that it wasn't in the car.[00:20:15] It wasn't in the vehicle. It was, it, there's no explanation for that. I mean, I don't know. Maybe it went in the trailer and maybe we just didn't quite get that out during the transaction. I have no idea if we might've lost it during set up or not set up, but take down, you might have lost it during take down. Yeah. I don't know, but how do you lose a 42 inch by 70 inch paint on wood panel? I don't know. So it wasn't the end of the world. I ended up painting another one and it's, it makes my bedroom look just as good. Still, it was like the first thing I did when we got back. My whole bedroom just looked so sad without it. Oh my gosh, I can't handle this, like we would have to replace that.[00:21:04]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my gosh. Ah, that sounds like a Murphy's Law trip, especially like, Oh my goodness. You know, I understand wanting to--it's so funny, you mentioned earlier, sometimes the perception of artists, maybe from people who haven't been as involved, you know, is that the life is very glamorous and, you know.[00:21:28] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, Instagram posts and things where we're dressed up and we're cleaned up, but they don't see--I mean, it's just so funny when people see me-- they just, they're so used to seeing me dress up all the time, the dress, and they don't realize I'm like, I'm in nasty paint clothes all day, every day. If I'm going somewhere, I do like being thoughtful in what I wear. I'm not in nice clothes all the time. It's actually the office.[00:21:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. Yeah. I remember one time being told something like, "Oh, well it just must be so amazing. You know, such a glamorous life. You get to do your dream job." And at the time I had just finished like a couple hours worth of scrubbing down our floor like on my hands and knees, right? And I was like, you have no idea. This is like the most unglamorous...[00:22:23]Katheryn Krouse: I mean, set up for an art fair, it's just so much work. I mean, when I first got started, my booth was so much work to set up. It was, you know, I couldn't afford the pro panels that are lightweight and beautiful. So I kind of imitated them and made, made my own. And it was out of heavy plywood and fabric that was stretched over it. And it, and it was two by fours and four, but it was building a deck every weekend. I mean, it was so much work in the heat, in the rain. Yeah, it's humbling for sure.[00:22:55] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, yes. Yeah, artists are very, very normal people doing, you know, sometimes I guess we get to do some extraordinary things, but on a daily basis, it's, it's just, it's just it's work. You know, it really is.[00:23:12] Katheryn Krouse: And. I mean, we don't have photographers and designers, so it's everything. I mean, it's like, we're doing the marketing, we're doing the, you know, framing. So I, I don't stretch my own canvases. I generally buy them, but I mean, I did for a long time and it's a lot of work. Your hands get beaten up. I mean, it's just, that's a lot.[00:23:29]Lindsey Dinneen: So for somebody who doesn't understand what that means, can you tell me about what stretching a canvas? Like what is that process?[00:23:37] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. Okay. So stretching your own canvas is really building it up from, from nothing. So you're, you're buying the wood and a lot of times you can buy it so it's, it's already angled. But basically you have to, you're taking loose canvas and pinching and hammering it and into its form over the woods stretcher. So if you're building the woods stretcher, it means constructing basically a wood frame and then taking the canvas that's cut and stretching it, stapling it, and, and then priming it with primer. And the bigger the canvases are, the harder that gets. It's difficult. Yeah. I mean, it's not that difficult. I'm just not good at it.[00:24:23]I can be way more productive if that that's already done. Yeah, but there's a lot of other, you know, handiwork that goes into--it's putting on hang wire. It's maybe putting it in a frame or, you know, all the hardware. I always save all of that for the very last. It's like, I'll end up doing like 30 paintings, little eye hooks and hardware and hang wire all at once. And by the end of it, my hands are all torn up. I mean, it's just like, I just did this as I go.[00:24:52]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my goodness. Well, and that process is actually a good segue into my next question for you. I know that probably pricing your artwork is kind of an interesting challenge sometimes because, you know, it's not just a matter of making sure that you're covering for the supplies used and the, you know, the hours of time that you've put into it. But also, I mean, it's, it's all of the learning that you have done as a professional for years. Right? It's you having invested, yeah, in yourself. And so I'm just curious. I mean, what, how does that process kind of, kind of work for you?[00:25:29] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. I mean, it is different. I definitely consider my work to be more on the affordable side. I work very quickly and, and oftentimes I have several pieces that I'm working on all at once. Like I'll whip up a beautiful color of violet or green and just be like, okay, who else? Who all needs this? You know, and kind of go through and get it on everything. It's so, it's hard to say exactly how much time I spend on one painting.[00:25:55] It generally is, I think, on the quicker side of creating things, but, and it's, it is, it's a tricky question, especially when other artists are getting started and they're not sure what to price it at. But I know for me, I like to stay busy. I like to kind of have a good turnaround. I don't love taking the same paintings to art fair after art fair or First Friday after First Friday. I kind of like having a fresh inventory and because I work quickly, it affords me to be able to kind of price them moderately and still move them for a price that can afford me to do this full time. So I think it's also having different price points.[00:26:37] I mean, I, I don't feel good about a show unless I have really at least three big paintings to sell, but it's also about the little ones too. It's about prints. I mean, I sell--all my prints are really like about the same size 11 by 14, and those are just $25. So people can buy those and sometimes even pair them or just buy a few of them and cluster them together. I mean, that's a really lovely look and also makes them accessible. Everybody can have it.[00:27:05]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, I love that. I think that's really great because you know, everyone does have a little bit of a different budget. And so, I think it's really lovely that you are able to cater to that and you know, somebody who can't afford the large, original yet might still get to enjoy some of the prints.[00:27:25] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. And the, and the prints are great too. Cause they are, you know, they're 11 by 14 they're standard size. They don't have to go custom for framing. You know, you can get very inexpensive, but nice frames on sale at Michaels. So that makes it affordable.[00:27:38]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, I love that. So, okay. So I know from a previous conversation with you that you're, you have a cat, is that correct? That that is involved in your creative process?[00:27:51]Katheryn Krouse: He is a part of it. He's a part of the process. He follows me around everywhere I go. I mean, studio, if I'm taking a bath, he is right there next to the bathroom. But so when we're in the--he loves our days where we're just in the studio for hours and hours and hours. And sometimes all night, I mean, he loves it. He, I've got the--I got this little chair on Facebook marketplace in the corner and that's how he thinks that's for him. That's his place, but he's also, you know, he can also be a pain too.[00:28:21] I mean, there's been times where I have a painting that's drying, leaning up against a wall. And he just thinks it's a good idea to just brush up against. I'm not giving him enough attention. It's like he gets into, he gets into all of it and then I have to absolutely stop what I'm doing, clean him up. Yeah. He's a funny one. And then he gets in all my pictures. It's like every time he sees that I'm trying to photograph my work, he thinks it's his moment. To sign and, and he's not wrong. I mean, it's so funny to me how I can make a post, and if he's in it, I get a better response. It's like more more people like it. So I call him my assistant 'cause he really kind of is.[00:29:00]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. He's just, he's another artist, right? He's a model.[00:29:05] Katheryn Krouse: He is, he absolutely is. It's really funny because he's so expressive and he's always looking at the camera to see what we're doing. Oh, he makes everything better.[00:29:15] Lindsey Dinneen: So has he been the subject of some of your paintings or a subject in any of your paintings?[00:29:22] Katheryn Krouse: You know, a little bit. I, you know, I told you when I started off as a little girl, kind of painting my cat, I actually got a resurgence of pet portrait commissions out of nowhere in the last year. And so I kind of have had fun doing people's pet portraits. They want them very colorful and expressive and, you know, their fur is often a good opportunity for texture and things like that. So I did paint a couple paintings of my cat, Ewok, just to kind of promote the pet portraits. And I swear that has like taken off. And so I was like, why didn't I do that sooner? It was just a funny thing that kind of came up really in the last year, but it's a fun, it's a really fun project, and everybody, people love their pets. People would want a portrait of their pet, but they do dog, cat likes being the place of that.[00:30:13]Lindsey Dinneen: That's wonderful. I love it. You know, it's so funny too, because I feel like sometimes it happens as an artist is you think you're going in one direction, and then the market may shift or just, you know, your direction may change. And all of a sudden you think, "Oh, I did not expect to be doing this, but here we are."[00:30:35]Katheryn Krouse: I mean, they're fast paced too. And because those don't take me very long, I mean, those are priced pretty fair, pretty affordable as well. So it's a good little favor.[00:30:47] Lindsey Dinneen: That's great. Well, I have a couple of questions that I always like to ask my guests if you're up for that[00:30:52] Katheryn Krouse: Of course.[00:30:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Okay. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:31:01]Katheryn Krouse: So I think I would define art as a thoughtful form of expression. I think it doesn't have to necessarily be creating a painting or writing a song or a poem. I think it can also include how you dress or how, how you cook, how someone cooks can be a form of art. I think that it can be anything or any way that one chooses to carry themselves--how, you know, how they decorate or different, different things. I think all of these are good forms of art.[00:31:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:31:46] Katheryn Krouse: I think an important role for an artist is to just be authentic and true to, true to themselves. And even if that's not always the most likable approach to things, I mean, I think that that's an important role.[00:32:04] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. Okay. And then my last question is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And just to give some context on that for anyone who might not know what my terms mean-- so what I'm kind of referring to is exclusive meaning that the artist puts a piece of work out there into the world and doesn't necessarily provide a whole lot of context. So perhaps, maybe it doesn't have a title or we don't know the inspiration behind it. It's, it's more for the audience to get what they will, versus, an artist who has an inclusive approach and does provide some context for it.[00:32:46] So maybe that's the inspiration behind it or, or a title of a piece or program notes, kind of, depending on the art form, so basically helping the audience to understand what the artist was thinking or what their intention was behind it versus, not having that context.[00:33:03] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah. That is a really good question. I think a lot of it depends on the art. I think that, for example, more abstract art or even dance or something like that--I think it is a little exciting at times to not have a context to it. My work, for example, I, I consider it to be very literal. It's a lot of cityscapes, it's pet portraits, it's, you know, the human form, and so I, for that reason, I mean, my titles even tend to be pretty direct as to what is being captured in the painting.[00:33:42] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure.[00:33:42] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah, so I think a little bit of exclusive and inclusive is kind of a fun balance, I think.[00:33:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.  I just want to say, first of all, thank you so much again, for being part of the show, for joining me and for sharing about your art and your stories where I think everyone can relate. I think everyone can relate to those moments where you're just like, "What is happening here?" And I appreciate your, your, realness, because I think that's, that's really--Ugh. I'm glad it worked out in the end, but oh man.[00:34:22] Katheryn Krouse: Yeah.[00:34:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And you know, I, so since I'm also local to the Kansas City area, I've actually had the privilege of seeing quite a number of Katheryn's works over the last few years, 'cause we're both part of the Kansas City Fringe Festival every year. And I actually think that's kind of where I first started to get to know your work, but, it's just gorgeous. She has the most lovely approach, seriously, I think to her paintings and... So she talks about them being literal and, and the are, but I love the fact that they're so vibrant and textured and the things that make it unique and glorious. So thank you for sharing art with the world.[00:35:05] Katheryn Krouse: Thank you so much. I really do have a lot of fun making it.[00:35:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And on that note, can we get to see any of your work? I mean, is there a way that we can kind of connect with you, to be able to see maybe where your next show is, or purchase art online or anything like that?[00:35:24] Katheryn Krouse: Yes, yes. Please follow me on Facebook. And my, my art page is Katheryn Krouse Art. So K A T H E R Y N, Krouse is K R O U S E Art. And then Instagram is K Krouse Art. And, I do also have an Etsy page that just has my prints on it and that, my Etsy shop name is Katheryn Krouse Art.[00:35:48]And then the next show is a little bit unknown. I have been doing a lot of work, or I have been selling my art through, any, any form that anyone wants to commission art through an email or reaching out on Facebook or Instagram. I'm even offering curbside pickup. So you can come pick up your painting while social distancing, right there in front of Jimmy John's on 11th and Grand. And I'm, you know, it's just so unsure of when the next show will be, that it kind of, it is a good time to get good at selling online and finding other ways to be resourceful. Yeah local art. We're all online. We're also, it's very, it's a great time to commission art from your favorite local artists, because we have time during quarantine to really put a lot of love in it.[00:36:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Perfect. Well, thank you. And again, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing about your art. And, I just really appreciate, like I said, everything that you bring to the world and I. Just want to say thank you to everyone. Also, who's listened to this episode and if it has left you as inspired as it has left to me, I would love if you would share with a friend and we will catch you next time.[00:37:05] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:37:16] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you a little bit about one of my very favorite resources for artists. It's a website called Arteza. They have incredible products, but what makes this company really unique is that they have supplies that are affordable to creators with every budget. So whether you're just starting out, or dabbling, or you, or you do have that budget available to you, they do you have options for every budget level. They provide the tools, but you steer the way. Literally you can access hundreds of thousands of high quality, unique products through their website. And right now they are offering a promo code to receive 8% off of any purchase and you can access the link and the promo code in my comments and show notes.

In this episode, I welcome Jeremiah Kauffman! He is a Kansas City playwright and producer, and shares his artistic journey to being brave enough to share his art with the world, as well as the value of other people's input on your work, and advice for young and aspiring artists.  Get in touch with Jeremiah Kauffman: Jeremiah6178@yahoo.com Arteza: Arteza makes art supplies affordable to creators with every budget. Art is about the journey. They provide the tools – you steer the way. Click here and use promo code PB8PROMO for 8% off your entire order!Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 009 - Jeremiah KauffmanLindsey Dinneen:  Hello. Welcome back to another episode of Artfully Told. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am very excited today to have, as my guest, Jeremiah Kauffman. He is a writer and playwright currently based out of Kansas City, but I am delighted to hear a little bit about his story and what inspires him. And so thank you so much, Jeremiah, for being here today.[00:00:32]Jeremiah Kauffman: You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me.[00:00:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course. Well, I would love if you would share with our audience just a little bit about who you are as an artist, as a person, and/or even maybe how you got into what you do.[00:00:47]Jeremiah Kauffman: I live here in Kansas City and, my day job, I teach deaf children, but I I've been writing from for just years. And, most of my writing, I'm trying to express ideas, and I think it's important for people to, to experience and hopefully internalize. So, I teach during the day, but summer, but evenings and summers, weekends, I'm writing. I've written a number of plays, one of--what--actually written about six plays, one of which has been produced last summer, and I'm currently producing another play, which is scheduled to be performed in July, but right now, of course, everything is really iffy. It may turn out to be a strictly online production, but we'll see. I live with five cats and, and, I just try to express myself through my writing. Yeah, so a little bit about me.[00:01:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So, what got you into writing in the first place? What kind of jump-started that?[00:01:48]Jeremiah Kauffman: Books probably, my family. So I have a poet, I mean, excuse me. I have an aunt who is a poet and she was kind of famous in her day. Her name was Elsie Melchert Fowler. So I knew I had that background, and my grandfather was an avid book collector, and so I was always surrounded by books. And so he was--when I was, when I was a toddler, when I was little, he was always reading to me. And, so I developed a love of reading. And so, I decided probably early on when I was in college that I wanted to be a writer. And, so I will go to the library to do my homework and end up just reading books and then regretting it later.[00:02:28] But, so I was always enthralled by books, always enthralled by writing. And, so I have sort of a literary artistic background. I have an uncle who's an artist--a great, great uncle--who's a noted artist. And so I think it was a combination of my background and my grandparents sort of fostering a love of reading and writing and books . Yeah. And then the need to tell a story. I've always needed to tell stories and I wanted to get stories out. And also inspired by other artists, such as my, as I said, my aunt and my uncle and, Vincent van Gogh is another example. So it's a combination of just my upbringing, my surroundings, and the influence of other artists.[00:03:21]It's kind of hard to pin down, because I grew up surrounded by art, but I guess I mentioned Vincent van Gogh. My grandmother loved him, and so I was exposed to his art pretty early on. And my mother hated him and said that he was crazy. And I thought, well, here's this dichotomy. There's just this, this contrast here. And it, my grandmother just loves him and my mother can't stand him. And so that intrigued me as a kid. I'm like, how could this be? How could somebody elicit such strong reaction?[00:03:55] Such strong contrast and reactions from two different people. And my grandmother and my mother had very personnel, different personalities. My mother was, my mother was kind of distant. She had a difficult time expressing love, and my grandmother was the opposite. She was very warm and very embracing. And, the interesting thing about that is--van Gogh, his mother was very distant, and cold also. And, but, he loved very deeply. And I think that's kind of where my grandmother and van Gogh kind of connected. They both loved very deeply. And it was just a very intriguing story that just got me really interested in art because his art was very moving and he, and he used art to communicate in the way I use writing to communicate. And so, but that's just one little story from my background that got me, I suppose thinking about art at a deeper level than just saying, "Oh, there's a pretty picture." But understanding who the artist was and what went into it and why they painted that and why one person loves it and another person can't stand it and so forth.[00:05:08]Lindsey Dinneen: In fact, it's so much richer if you learn what's behind it and, and I, I love that you had that moment of realizing that your mom and your grandma had such different opinions on the same person. And why, why was that? That's, that's really neat.[00:05:28]Jeremiah Kauffman: Yeah. And actually, if you don't mind my interrupting you-- van Gogh, one of the things that he always wanted to know, just as much as the painting itself, if you want to know who painted it and what they were like. And so who created the painting was just as interesting and as important as the painting itself.[00:05:48] Lindsey Dinneen: Sort of with van Gogh, and then you mentioned that there were other--you know, artist was really in your blood--your family, so deeply artistic and creative. Were there other people that inspired you or encouraged you along your writing journey?[00:06:05]Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, there's a whole host of writers I've always enjoyed reading, some of whom--so like in terms of like literary inspiration, in terms of other novelists and storytellers-- I found a lot of inspiration from Mark Twain, Henry James, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, André Gide, and, it's just, it's a really long list.  Yeah, I was inspired by a lot of 'em, of literary writers, artists. Also what kind of inspired--I thought it was awesome that my grandfather's uncle, his name is, his name is Ernest Melchert. We called him Uncle Ern and he was an etchist. He did dry point etching prints. And, I just thought it was amazing that this man had so much out there and he, he had a day job too.[00:06:55] He worked for a paper company, and in Chicago and, but he was constantly producing art. I mean, it, it was an obsession with him almost. And so he has art in, you know, the Art Institute in Chicago and the Library of Congress and the Smithsonian in their collections, and I thought that was very inspiring.  So I thought this man, he put his heart into this and he worked really hard and he was able to share it with other people and that was inspiring. And it isn't like, I don't have to just sit in my room and just scribble some stuff out and no one ever sees it again. Never never sees that.[00:07:33]I thought if I work really hard, people can experience my art. And so he actually, sort of inspired me to actually keep working in and, and make the effort to share it with other people. José Faus is a, an artist here in Kansas City and a writer, and he encouraged me to keep writing and sharing my writing. And Eve Ott is a local area writer and she encouraged me to, to write and share. Both of them are very successful writers, and Sharon Eicher is another local writer and jazz singer, and she also encouraged me. So there's a number of local writers who sort of mentored me, especially Eve Ott. I consider her one of my closest and most endearing mentors. So once you're interested in or something, you know, get a, find a local mentor who can continue to encourage you and work with you.[00:08:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Having, having the support of local artist who maybe are a little further into their career. And who can help guide and direct and make good suggestions. That's really important and helpful. Yeah. That's great that you have that here. So when you first produced, which was last summer, how was that? I mean, did that feel really good? Was it scary? Was it, you know, what were the emotions that you went through when you actually did put your work out there into a play for the first time that other people would be able to go and see.[00:09:14]Jeremiah Kauffman: I experienced a whole range of emotion from terror, fear, doubt, self doubt, to excitement, hope. You know, I guess, the fear of, you know, will this work out, you know, or will it be a failure? Which you know, was constantly, constantly trying to be down with the, excitement that someone's actually going to see something and experience something that I've, I've written and hopefully move them.[00:09:42] So when I did this, I didn't want to just entertain. I wanted to move the audience. I wanted to change-- basically change their perspective, maybe even their lives. So it was just a constant tug of war between my fears and my hopes and aspirations and ultimately most of the time I was very happy, hopeful, but it was also stressful because, you know, I was also directing and producing. And so, there's the stress of the business end of it. Then there's the stress of the directing end of it. But in the end, I think it worked out, but it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work. You can't give up. You can't, you can't say to yourself, "I can't do this," because once you say that it's a slippery--start saying that, it's a slippery slope.[00:10:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Right. When you finished the project, did you feel that you came out with more confidence to be able to do it again?[00:10:43]Jeremiah Kauffman: Yeah, that's why I'm doing it again because I did. I developed some confidence, and confidence can come. You know, you can see your product, your play and say, "Wow. That was great!" But it always helps to have another set of eyes, which is what an audience is, and so, some of that confidence also comes from when people say, "You know, I liked what you did. I think you should do something else."[00:11:07] I mean, do something in addition. So, so yeah, I came out more confident partially because I got to see what I had written performed. And then also, because other people encouraged me--audience members, festival coordinators, directors, other critics. So, and if you don't put yourself out there, you won't have the opportunity to get feedback from anybody. Feedback is sometimes negative. But it's also positive. And so if you don't put yourself out there, you'll never get that positive feedback. Be scared and just try it because you might be surprised at how well it comes out, or you might be surprised at how-- even if it doesn't come out the way you want to-- there'll be somebody there who says, "Try again."[00:11:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Right, and having that feedback is so valuable so that you can go back and make changes. So that the next time you produce it, it gets just a little bit better every single time.[00:12:07] Jeremiah Kauffman: And if I could jump in, I'd say that when a critic evaluates work and it's not always positive, don't take that personally. A professional critic will be very professional and they'll say, this is what went well, this is what didn't go well; what needs to be, what needs to be modified or changed or develop further and take that seriously. Most critics aren't going to be hateful. So that's why you want to put yourself out there. So you can have people, both audience members and critics, give you some feedback. I think even if it's not positive, that should give you the motivation. It gives me the motivation to try again, and see if I can do a better job the second time around.[00:12:52]Lindsey Dinneen: It's easier to take things to heart than it is to pick it apart a little bit and go, okay, this is the feedback that's really valuable to me, and not to get discouraged by somebody who doesn't quite understand what you're going for. But what's great about even that is then you get to find out what didn't translate very well to the audience. And that's invaluable for you to know. I mean, that was something that happened for me early on is learning that there were aspects of what I was producing that people just didn't understand. And so I had to really make sure that I was communicating that much more effectively. So it is helpful. So what advice would you have for somebody who's maybe just starting out or really nervous about taking, say something that they've been doing by themselves for themselves primarily, and putting it out in the world for the first time?[00:13:55]Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, choose something that is meaningful to you and you're passionate about. 'Cause so, so we write lots of stuff as writers, and sometimes we're passionate about it. And sometimes it's just an exercise, but one, select something that you're passionate about and then have other people read it. And just be brave and just have other people read it or have them read a variety of things that their passion that you're passionate about.[00:14:19] And, then the one that seems to really engage people, really hook them. I, by the way, have stage fright. And I, I don't like public speaking and it scares the heck out of me. But then take the next step after you have, colleagues or friends or family read your work, then do a public reading and there's lots of places where you can do public readings. Here in Kansas City, we have something called The Writer's Place.  And you can go to these events at these, or bookstores or jazz clubs or whatever, but  you have readings, so read it and that does two things. One, it gets you used to performing in front of a group or having your work performed and it also allows you to receive feedback. The other thing I suggest is that you, when you're writing something you're really passionate about, hire someone or find some way to do a cover for it.[00:15:10] And so, whether it's a short story or a play or a novel, find somebody who can do what would ultimately be a book cover or a promotional cover for your writing. Each of my plays, I've done a cover. I've, I have a graphic artist that I've used. His name is Josiah Scott. He's also my editor and he just comes up with these wonderful covers. What's important about that is, when you see the cover of your story or your play, or maybe even a performance piece, suddenly it comes alive. It's like, wow, this is real. This is, this is it. I'm naturally doing this, and it can inspire you to keep working on it and developing it.[00:15:52] And then I would also suggest getting involved in, or I should joining, different organizations, writing organizations and finding out who the publishers are and what they're seeking, and don't ever submit something to a publisher that doesn't match what they're looking for. So if it says, we're looking for stories with female characters from diverse cultural backgrounds, or we're looking for stories on LGBTQ characters, or or we're looking for fan fiction for kids, don't send them something that doesn't fit that category. But instead focus on whatever your category is, focus on those publishers, and send it.[00:16:41] And you will be rejected multiple times, but just keep sending and sending and sending and sending and sending, and follow the directions. If they say what size font to use, use that font. It's kind of like grant writing. I've done grant writing in my job. And when the grant writer said, this is the format you should be following, this is the topic, this is the size of your font. Do it. Yeah, you're going to get rejection, but just keep doing it because ultimately you won't be rejected. But if you get rejected and you say, I can't do it well, then, you know, you'll end up--well, that'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy.[00:17:19] You know, I don't know how many times, J.K. Rowling submitted "Harry Potter." It was rejected repeatedly, but she kept doing it, and her story isn't unique. It's just, that's just the way it is. So I suppose, that's some advice. I guess the last piece of advice is just write about what your passions are. Whatever about what you're passionate about, write about what you feel deeply about, because that's where your energy will come from and that's what will produce your best work.[00:17:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. Great advice. Thank you.[00:17:49]Jeremiah Kauffman: You're welcome. I hope so.[00:17:54] Lindsey Dinneen: So I just have a couple questions that I like to ask my guests if that's okay with you. Okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:18:09]Jeremiah Kauffman: Wow. I've never been asked that question before, but what is art? I guess art is any creative process to produce something that's meaningful to the artist and they want it to show up other people. And I don't really, I don't think there are any boundaries to what art is. There are no limitations. And if you produce a sculpture or a performance, choreographic performance, apart, whatever or painting. And someone says, ah, that's not art. If you say it's art, because the creative expression of what you're trying to share with others and it is art. So, I'm not one that looks at a particular, you know, like painting, you know, All right.[00:18:52] So somebody paints hyper-realistic babies or, or kittens. And someone says, yeah, that's art because that's hyper-realistic. But the, the abstract painting that somebody did --that's not art. That is not true. The abstract painting is just as much art is the cute little kittens. It's just the art is the expression of creativity. That's all it is. I don't think we should pigeonhole art. Art's anything that illustrates emotion from both the artist and the viewer. It's something that entertains and teaches, and something that can be used to make our lives better. It can be something that improves our society or just makes us happy or just helps us feel better about ourselves or helps us, it gives us comfort when we need comfort or gives us inspiration when we need to be inspired, and if it affects and produces all range of emotions. And I think that if there's an emotional response, then that's also art. [00:20:03]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. So, what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:20:08] Jeremiah Kauffman: I can't speak for all artists, but for a lot of us, the role of an artist is to, to move people and to hopefully elicit, inspire some kind of change in others. Some kind of, so, all right, you know, it could be producing positive change in society. So the role of the artist might be, of some artists might be, let's take-- the, the novels that were written about the canneries and the meat packing plants. That was a form of art, but it was designed to move people to make change and make positive change in society. The role of the artist is to entertain. You know, the role of the artist is to help other people love more deeply, to feel more deeply, to elicit joy, to elicit critical thinking too. Encourage people to also become artists. See, if I'm writing and I don't inspire anyone else to write then what was, what's the point? You know, I hope that as a writer, I inspire other people to write. So an artist is also someone who, whose role is to encourage the continuation of art.[00:21:27]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. And I have one final question for you and that is, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And I'll define my terms there. So, inclusive meaning that when the artist creates their work, they do give some context behind it. So they might say what inspired it or what they were going through at the time. You just sort of know a little bit more of the background, versus exclusive being that the artist puts their work out there and just lets their viewers experience it and take what they will without having context.[00:22:09]  Jeremiah Kauffman: I don't see anything wrong if someone wants to be inclusive; that's their choice. But I don't think it's required, because I think one of the awesome things, one of the really cool things about art, is that it's kind of fun and it's also, I think good for people to look at art and to critically look at it, not critical in whether good or bad, but critically evaluate it in a way that gets them thinking about what was the artist thinking. See, we want our minds to be active. We want our minds to be deeply engaged. And if we're looking at art and we don't have that background, it forces us to really look at it and think about it and ponder it and, and try to understand it. And it really does help develop a level of higher-order thinking skills.[00:23:02] And in our society, we really need people with good, with very effective, higher-order, cognitive thinking skills and, and art can get us there. And I don't, so I don't think it needs to be, inclusive. Sure the backstory is great, but I also really don't mind, and enjoy looking at art and trying to just, you know, experience, whatever I feel at the moment and experience maybe what the artist wanted me to feel, but didn't, but didn't explicitly tell me. And in some sense, isn't it kind of like a spoiler, when they like a movie and they say, this is what happens at the end. Well, the artist says, well, this is what I'm trying to, it's kind of spoiled then, isn't it? You want to go through the same creative process or similar creative processes the artist went through.[00:23:57] Lindsey Dinneen: I like that perspective. And I have not heard it put this way yet, but I really liked what you said about, by not having the context, we can go along in that creative journey with our viewers or, or with the artist. And so, yeah, I really appreciate that perspective. Thank you.[00:24:16] Jeremiah Kauffman: Well, thank you. 'Cause I've never--that is really a new question for me. One of the things is, is a teacher I'm trying to teach my kids higher, higher-level thinking skills, higher-order thinking skills, and I think art can get us there.[00:24:34] Lindsey Dinneen: I agree. Well, thank you so much again, Jeremiah, for sharing your perspective on art and, kind of, all of your inspiration and advice. I certainly appreciate it. I know our listeners do too. And is there a way for us to be able to connect with you if any of our listeners are interested in seeing one of your plays or, you know, learning more about, about what you do?[00:25:02]Jeremiah Kauffman: I'm open to meeting with anybody, getting to know people. I'm an introvert, but when it comes to art, I tend to enjoy connecting with other people because art is such an important part of our culture, and it's a necessary part of our culture. It's a necessary part of the human experience. So you can email me. You have my email address, right?[00:25:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I sure do.[00:25:30]Jeremiah Kauffman:  I respond to all emails that I see.[00:25:33]Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, well thank you again so much, Jeremiah, and thank you to all of you listeners who have listened to this episode. And if it has left you as inspired as it is, it has for me, I would love for you to share it with a friend or two, and we will catch you next time.

In this episode, I welcome Elizabeth Cooper! She shares her stories about teaching herself drawing and photography, and how art has helped shape her life even as a side hobby (for now!). She talks about what art teaches its participants, and that you don't have to do art perfectly in order to enjoy it. Special note: the ladybug photo for this episode's cover art is Elizabeth's own photography! Get in touch with Elizabeth Cooper: https://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.campbell.756412Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 008 - Elizabeth CooperLindsey Dinneen:   Hello! Welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Lindsey and I am delighted to have as my guest today, Elizabeth Cooper. She is a wonderful, wonderful person. I'm blessed to actually know her; we're related, she's my cousin, which is awesome. And we grew up very close together. So she is a fantastic person in general, but she is also an artist in her own right. And I'm excited just to listen to her stories and share her experiences with you all. So thank you for joining me, Elizabeth.[00:01:04]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a new experience and I'm looking forward to it.[00:01:08] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. So, first of all, just, do you mind just sharing a little bit about you and the different art forms that you've dabbled in and all that fun stuff?[00:01:18]Elizabeth Cooper: Okay. So yeah, as you said, I'm Elizabeth. I'm Lindsey's cousin and, I live here in Virginia and, have kind of gone into art as I've gotten a little bit older. It was actually--it was fun watching Lindsey and Ashley dance and, my art story actually starts with Jason. He was kind of my, my-- I don't know what to call him! I always looked up to Jason and for everything, you know, we did everything together, growing up and...[00:01:44] Lindsey Dinneen: So for--and I'm just going to interject real fast--so Jason is my older brother and Ashley's my younger sister. So, so yeah. So all of us cousins? No, no, you're fine. But for those who don't know all of us-- cousins, we, we spend a lot of time together growing up. So there's, there's your context. Back to you.[00:02:00] Elizabeth Cooper: Yes we did. Yes. So yeah, I actually started drawing because of Jason. He started drawing mazes back--I don't even know how old we were. And, he started drawing mazes and of course I wanted to copy, you know, everything that he did. So, I started drawing mazes and that's kinda how it started. From there, I don't remember what he ended up doing if that's all he did. Well, he was always doodling something anyway. But, outside of doodling, I started drawing, just usually Lord of the Rings related. 'Cause I was obsessed with that when all and all that came out. So, I started drawing, like copying pictures of, you know, their swords or the crowns or the necklaces, you know, the jewelry, and that kind of stuff that they had.[00:02:45]You know, I thought they were gorgeous pieces. That's art in and of itself, just the designs that they had. So I started just copying those. You know, I see a picture, I look at the picture and kind of freehand it. And, so then from there I started drawing houses, which I think also might have been adjacent thing. I think he had designed a house or something and something that we had talked about, you know, that it would be fun to design our own houses one day and build them and whatever. And so, so then I started drawing houses, like layouts for houses, just very basic ones, And, you know, all the different ways that you can do it in the different types of houses. So I had a lot of fun with that. And then, we have an uncle that is an artist and I used to look at all of his stuff and I'd talk to him sometimes and be like, all right, "Can you help me with this perspective?" Or, you know, "I want the shadows here," you know, whatever. And he kinda told me things here and there and helped me out.[00:03:40]Usually what I think of in my head is not what comes out on the paper. So, you know, yeah--so that gets frustrating sometimes, you know. It can be easily like, all right, forget this, you know? And there's been many projects I've done that with--all right, this is not working, I'm done. I remember taking art in school, which is just the, you know, again, the beginning basics of art, but I just really enjoyed it. I enjoy being able to, to take nature or, people or, you know, whatever, and just be able to put it on paper. I haven't done a lot of drawing in the last several years.[00:04:12]I do like to color, which is a totally different thing and kind of cheating because then somebody else does the art, but I guess there, I guess there's art in the colors and... But so, yeah, so it's been a little while since I've done a lot of like drawing stuff, but I pulled it all out the other day, for my best friend, who's getting ready to have a baby this summer. And, so I started drawing an alphabet book for her, which-- it's coming along very slowly. And, it's definitely kind of saying "Well, it's not quite what I had in my head," but some of the stuff has come out better or different.[00:04:46] And it hasn't necessarily been a bad different, just different than what I was thinking. You know, that it would be, So, yeah, I, I've enjoyed drawing buildings. I've done some sketches of some old barns and some old buildings that I've either had the privilege of living next to, or of working by. And I really enjoyed that, the landscape, you know, drawing landscapes and stuff. And then with that, I guess that's kind of-- I wouldn't say that drawing got me into photography. I'm actually not sure. I'm pretty sure when I got into photography--I was trying to think about that-- when I started, I've always loved taking pictures as far as I can remember. You know, way back when we had like rolls of film that you had to put in your camera, you know, and hope that you got the shot, right?[00:05:38]But, you know, on all the missions trips and stuff, I always love taking my camera and I would get rolls and rolls and rolls of pictures. And, so over the years that's kind of developed-- I've done a lot more photography than I have drawing, actually. But, I think my, my favorite thing to do --to take pictures of is, again, nature. I'm a huge outdoors person. I love to be outside. I could literally spend all day outside and, I am just awed by, by the beauty of nature. And, I love capturing it and you know, the colors and the detail of it. My favorite thing, in even within nature to photograph is just details. Like, I've been able to get some really good pictures of grasshoppers, like really up close, where you can see their eyes and, you know, or butterflies--you can see the details in their wings and, I think it's kind of a funny thing, but I think bug's eyes are very fascinating, if you've ever looked at a bug's eye.[00:06:41]So I have a lot of pictures of, like, close-ups of bugs' eyes. Yeah, so, yeah, I just love the detail and how intricate it is. And I've done--I had the privilege of photographing Ashley's wedding--being one of the photographers for that. And, that was outside of what I normally do, but I had so much fun with that and was very grateful for, you know, for her trusting me to help with that. It's a big, that's a big thing. Right now, most of my pictures, I actually take on my phone, and I'm hoping eventually to actually get a good, working camera, and then be able to do more with it. Someday, my, my dream would be to be able to take a theme, be it, huh, bugs or, you know, or flowers, or even, you know, castles or old churches-- you know, something like that, but be able to go around and photograph all those things.[00:07:40] And then, you know, make, make a book out of it. You know, be able to partner with somebody that can write and, you know, put together like a picture book. Just to be able to showcase, you know, all the, all the beautiful things that are, that we have in this world.[00:07:56] Lindsey Dinneen: That'd be amazing.[00:07:57]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. So that's kind of on the, that's on the bucket list. That's the, you know, a dream thing to do maybe someday.[00:08:02]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you actually kind of have dabbled in creating products from your photography. Is that correct?[00:08:12]Elizabeth Cooper: Yes. Yeah, I have, yeah, I've done stuff through Shutterfly, where I've been able to take the pictures that I've taken, and I make a calendar for my mom every year. And, I honestly, I'm trying to see what else I've done with it-- the calendars I've done. There's so much you can do pictures, you know, just plain, plain pictures, little gift things. I've always thought it would be neat to be able to take the pictures and do something with it, whether it's, you know, selling products with the pictures on it to raise money for, you know, a charity, or for a mission or something like that.[00:08:43]I'd love to be able to, to share the pictures that I have, but then also do something, you know, do something good with it too. Not just, not just sell it, but like I said, do something good, some sort of charity or something that I can then help donate to.[00:08:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, that would, that would be incredible. So for both photography and drawing, have you had any training, so to speak, in them? Or like, have you taken classes? Or is this you've just sort of learned as you go?[00:09:10]Elizabeth Cooper: It's really been a lot of learning as I go. For drawing, the only thing that I, like, classes that I've had for that was what we took--goodness--a long time ago.[00:09:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yeah.[00:09:23] Elizabeth Cooper: When we did, when we did AMP. Yeah. And, so that was a while ago. Yup, yup. Again as kids. So that's actually the only, you know, the only lessons that I've had, as far as art goes. You know, I've looked stuff, I've looked stuff up online, like for this book that I'm doing now for my friend, you know, I'll look stuff up online. Okay. How do you draw, you know, kind of follow like the step by step instructions. And I have, I, over the years, I've bought all kinds of books on drawing, you know, how to do pencil drawings and nature drawings and, you know, stuff like that. Kind of, you know, detailed books on kind of the techniques of how to, but I've never actually taken like an art class like that, like a drawing class, which I think would be be a ton of fun to do. 'Cause I really do enjoy it. I enjoy drawing and yeah.[00:10:16] And then for photography, no, I haven't taken anything for that. And I've talked to different people and again, I have books and stuff that I've purchased over the years that I've looked through 'em or different people that I've talked to, but nothing, you know, no official class or anything. Which, again, that would be something, I mean, I would love. I would love to take an official class. 'Cause I know, I know nothing compared to, you know, the things that you could, especially with these, you know, the cameras that you can get up. So many settings and stuff. There's so many cool things that you can do with them. So hopefully someday I'll be able to expand and kind of do more of that and, become better. Which is the beauty of, well, really any sort of art form, you know, you can always expand it and work on it and learn, learn new techniques and stuff to, you know, to to make it better or, or just different, not even better, just different.[00:11:11] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Yeah. New perspectives even, or, or different techniques or, or just, yeah. Yeah. I love that. So I know this is going to be probably a difficult question to answer, but do you have like a favorite photo you've ever taken? Something that like really stands out to you?[00:11:26]Elizabeth Cooper: Hmm. That is a[00:11:28] Lindsey Dinneen: I question.[00:11:29] I know! Or like a couple, I mean, it doesn't have to be one, but I'm just curious if you were like, "Oh my goodness, I can't believe I captured this moment!" You know, or something like that.[00:11:38] Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. I do have a few like that. And the few that are, like some just, flowers that I've gotten, where like the lighting was just perfect. And so I do have a couple of flower pictures that, you know, that definitely rank up there as some of my favorite ones. And then, like I said, I have a lot of pictures of closeups of, you know, bees or butterflies or grasshoppers. And, those tend to be my favorite too. I really liked those, I guess. I don't know why it fascinates me so much. Just, I think, cause they're, they're different, and I dunno. But I do have some of those that, that would also probably rank up there as some of my favorites. I have a really good one, actually that I got recently of a, a lady bug on a leaf, and it's like this perfectly green leaf and a lady bug. And it's--the lady bug sticks out so nicely on the green leaf. The only problem is that it's not facing me. If it was facing me, it would be like the perfect picture.[00:12:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh![00:12:35] Elizabeth Cooper: But, but it's, but it's still good. And I have said that I really, I really liked that one too. It turned out really well.[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: That's neat. Kind of a random question, but have you ever captured a bumblebee?[00:12:45]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. I do have pictures of bumblebees! Now, they're not generally flying. but I do have some pictures of bumblebees.[00:12:52] Lindsey Dinneen: They're really cute. We have this one that's been like hanging out with us every time we'll, you know, we have spent time outside for whatever reason. There are these two, like, enormous bumblebees that are like super fluffy and they just hang out and I've been trying to capture it. And I can't. So.[00:13:10]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah, well, there's one section of our fence that I think that they're in, that's kind of where they've made home. And so we have a bunch of these wood bees by our gate, actually. And, I've noticed this year, when I go to fill up the dog bowl outside, just, you know, the regular spigot, you know, off the house. A couple of times I've turned that on and a bee will fall out of there. So, I don't know why they're in there. It's kind of an odd thing, but then, you know, then their wings are wet, so then they can't fly. So I've actually been able to, you know--I'll usually find a leaf or something that I can pick them up and move them somewhere I know it's going to be safe, that they can dry out and then can go on their way. But because I've had them right there on that leaf, I've been able to get some good close-ups of them being right there. Last year I got a really good one of one clinging onto the fence. Yeah. So, so yeah, I do have a few.[00:14:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay, well, that's awesome. I was, I was thinking about this. It's just top of mind when you were talking about the bugs and I was thinking that just bumblebee, I mean, they they're hovering really close to us and, and they're just so cute. I mean, they're very fascinating. I've never seen a bumblebee or maybe it's, maybe it's a wood bee or whatever, but I've never seen one so close. And yeah. Anyway ...[00:14:25] Elizabeth Cooper: They're not afraid. They just, yeah, it would be really neat to be able to capture one like mid air. You know, flying. That would be really cool. And I don't know, because I use my phone most of the time all the time. I don't, I don't know how easy that would be to do, but I would imagine with, you know, with a good camera. Then yeah, I'm sure that would, that would be something that could be captured.[00:14:50] Lindsey Dinneen: So, thank you for sharing. That's, it's really, it's inspirational to me to know that, you know, sometimes you look at--well, we were talking about this actually before we started recording--is sometimes you look at it, an artist that's, you know, first of all, probably had years and years and years and years and years of experience, but also, you know, just this caliber where you think, "Oh my goodness. I mean, it's just amazing. And I could never do that." And, so I think it's really inspiring to hear that, you know, yeah, there's, there's maybe some forms of drawing or photography that you look at and you go, you know, that's, that's not me now, but I think it's amazing that you're, you know, you're creating art in a different way. I mean, you're creating what you are interested in creating, and it doesn't have to be like masterpiece quality from day one, and you're still trying, you know?[00:15:44] Elizabeth Cooper: Right, right. Well, I think that you, you know, with, with art and any form of art, whether it's dance or whether it's photography or, you know, it really teaches you patience, and you know, the importance of, of trying to get, you know--you failed, doesn't look like how you want to do. Alright, let's try it again and try something different, you know? And it, you know, so it really, it helps teach you perseverance and patience and, yeah, the importance of, of like you're saying. Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, you know, that can be good enough.[00:16:19] Yeah,[00:16:20] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. I love that perspective. It's, there's value in the creation process and not just the final product, you know?[00:16:27]Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah. Yeah.[00:16:28] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, that's that's really good perspective. I like that a lot. Well, I have a couple questions for you if that's okay. So I like to just kind of, you know, hear different perspectives on these, these questions. So first, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:16:46]Elizabeth Cooper: So I never really, honestly, I never really thought about that before, but I think I would say, I would define art as a piece of, of work that, that someone is inspired by. Like someone sees something around them and they're inspired by it. And so they want to then recreate it in a way that means something to them. Does that make sense? So, I mean, I feel like art is, is, you know, it, it's a very personal thing. You know, everybody sees it differently. And so, yeah, I guess I would, I would just define art as anything that, that is inspired by the things around you, that then you create something from that inspiration.[00:17:36] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's perfect. Okay. What do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:17:43]Elizabeth Cooper: I would say being true to yourself and your passion. A lot of art is--it's interpretation of what, what you see around you and what inspires you. So, you know, I would say that it's really being, being yourself and letting yourself and what you see, shine through.[00:18:09] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So being true to--yeah, being true to yourself as you, as you create. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, absolutely.[00:18:16] Elizabeth Cooper: Yeah.[00:18:18] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. And then the, final question I have-- I'll define it a little bit further than the question itself, but, do you think that art should be inclusive or exclusive? And kind of where I'm going with that thought is, so with exclusive, it's kind of an artists creates something, kind of puts it out in the world and doesn't provide any context behind it. So it's completely up to the viewer or participant or whatever, to kind of draw their own conclusions. Versus inclusive, meaning that, you know, you have--they provide some context to their work, so maybe it's a description or what inspired it, or what was going on in their head. You know, like just having a little bit more context as far as what the artist's intention was.[00:19:04]Elizabeth Cooper: I think I'm actually, I'm actually torn on that. Because I, because art does tend to be such a personal thing, I feel like there's, there's place for both. You know, if I, as the artist, draw something very specific and I have a story that goes with it, and that's what I want to portray, then it might be important to have some sort of, of background out there to know kind of what's going on in the picture. So that way, when the person is looking at that piece of art or looking at that piece of photography or whatever, then they, they know what I, as the artist, am seeing and thinking.[00:19:42] But then I think there's also a place for--okay, here, I'm going to make this masterpiece and this is what it means to me personally, but here you look at it and what is, you know, what do you think it means? Okay. Or what do you want it to be to you? So I feel like there's really place for, for both. Yeah. I don't know that I would say that, you know, one or the other is, is better. I think it really depends on the piece and the artist's intention behind it. So, I mean, I know for me sometimes when it comes to like some of the dance stuff that, you know--like we've gone to watch you and you and Ashley do. But it's nice, it's nice to have a little bit of the background to know, Oh, okay. This is what's going on. You know, like in the, you know, for this dance, this is what this is supposed to mean, or whatever. But then that's not always, you know, it's not always necessary. So I really do think that it depends on, on what the art form is and, and, what the intention is behind it.[00:20:34] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. That's a great answer. Well, thank you so very much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time to do so. And, you know, I--again, I have some context here that maybe some of our listeners don't, but I have seen some of Elizabeth's drawings and her photography and she is a beautiful artist, doing....[00:20:59] Elizabeth Cooper: Aww, thank you.[00:21:01] Lindsey Dinneen: Really, truly, I really love what you do. I think it's really fun. And, I like your different perspectives, especially with your photography. I've really, yeah. I like that-- like you were talking about the details and I thought, "Oh yeah, that is something that you just have really honed in on." And that's, that's neat! That, that gives you something that's a little different than just like a general shot, you know?[00:21:21]So I just want to say thank you for creating art. I think that in general, when you are willing to, kind of, create and share, I think that just brings more beauty and inspiration to the world. So thank you. And, yeah, actually I've, I've been the recipient of some of the artwork, so, or the artwork products, I guess. So I, I'm super happy about it too. Biased, but no, I really there's a lot of value to that. And thank you for sharing your insights just about, yeah, your creation process and sort of what kind of, what inspired that journey. That's, that's really cool. So, I appreciate it.[00:22:00]Well, that wraps up that and thank you so much to everyone who is listening to this. And if it particularly inspired you, if you wouldn't mind sharing it with a friend and, and keep making the world a beautiful place!

In this episode, I welcome Erin Paige! Erin is a speaker, author, and healing artist. She is the brilliant artist behind Love Tiles, where she paints hearts with loving-kindness, Reiki, and positive energy infused into each tile. She is an amazingly generous and positive woman, who share about the impact art can make without the artist even knowing.  Get in touch with Erin Paige: https://www.erinpaige.com/ | https://www.youtube.com/user/ErinsPaigeBluprint: More than 13 million enthusiasts - from artists to quilters and beyond - make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy on-demand content, access to the world’s top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving creative community. Click here and use promo code 50OFF2 for 50% off all courses!Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressedLicense: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Episode 007 - Erin PaigeLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part in to the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experiences as, as so beautiful.[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello! Welcome to another episode of Artfully Told. My name is Lindsey and I am so delighted to have as my guest today, the absolutely wonderful Erin Paige.[00:00:44] She is a fantastically uplifting human being, just so full of grace and kindness and empathy towards the world. So she is a coach. She is an author. She has her own journal that I've actually had the privilege to go through, and it's just incredibly uplifting and inspiring. And she is also an artist. She paints and has a few different avenues for her art. And I'm just so excited to be able to talk with her today and share her with you, because I know you're just going to get so much from her. So thank you so much, Erin, for being here. I am so excited to have you.[00:01:27]Erin Paige: Oh, well, what a great intro. Thank you so much, Lindsey, for having me today. I'm just as thrilled to be with you, as you say you are with me. So this will be a wonderful moment in time and space to be creative together. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me.[00:01:45] Lindsey Dinneen: Of course! And I would just love to hear a little bit more about you and about, you know, what you do and in your art, if you don't mind just kind of sharing a little bit about that.[00:01:56]Erin Paige: Well, of course I would love to share. Well, let me just start out by saying, and I believe that if you are an artist listening to this, that you probably can relate as well, that I was born an artist. So, I grew up in a creative family. I was fortunate enough to have a mother that was, and still is, extremely creative, more on the abstract side. And my father, bless his soul--he was a mechanical engineer. And of course, when you hear about an engineer, you think very analytical and that was true with his artwork. He was creative, but more in the realistic, realistic realm.[00:02:36]So he could draw a portrait of anyone and it would look just like them. So I had a nice balance with that and we were creative as a family and they really enhanced that for myself and for my sister, whether it was through artwork or through singing. I love to sing as well, but as I moved on throughout my adult life, I started painting hearts and getting back into the painting side of things. I had a jewelry business. I was creative through that, but if I can get a little personal here--and I think that this can be relatable to a lot of people--that I realized that I was starting to paint hearts because where I was in at that time in my life. I was not being fulfilled in the love area, if you will.[00:03:29] My heart was really aching for someone to appreciate me for me. So I continued with these hearts and realized that it was almost like a healing journey, if you will. So the hearts evolved. I started speaking a lot more. I wrote the book and journal that I have that you mentioned, and it has hearts on it. And it really--that moment in time where I was needing to be fed. I realized that I could turn that moment into feeding others with positivity, with grace, with love and the feedback that I was getting from people when they would see my artwork. I would literally, Lindsey, I would have people stop, as they were walking by not paying attention, but then stop and then turn towards--let's say I was at an art fair--and they would stop and look and go, "I don't know. There's something about your artwork that makes me feel better."[00:04:34] And it was really quite powerful. And I think when you hear that enough times, you realize that you are really living in a present moment and you are gifting the world with your gifts. And I think a lot of artists--that's exactly what they are doing, and they are gifting their unique gift through the arts, whether it's dance, singing, or in my case, painting hearts. So I take what I do very, very seriously. So when I'm writing or with whether I am getting ready to work with people, you know, in a workshop that is still very heart-centered, I make sure that I'm in a very positive place.[00:05:18] If I am in that creative state, and I feel like my energy is down. I will get up and go on a walk, for instance, or I'll meditate or I'll pray just to make sure that what I am infusing into the artwork is pure positivity, pure love. I really like to say that I create and love and I give and love. So, you know, I really take that to heart. And I've got a couple examples, if I could share, one of the things that I create are love tiles and they're original. They're on four by four tiles and I paint hearts and I paint dots around them. So the, what I call like the energy, is radiating out and the loves radiating out to people.[00:06:01] And it comes in a gift bag with an easel and my inspirational card. I call it my wallet card so people can keep it in their wallet and be inspired whenever they need to be. I had a client of mine purchased two heart tiles and she gifted them to her grandchildren. And they're young and she called me and she said, "I have to tell you about how I presented these heart tiles that I purchased from you to my grandchildren."[00:06:30] She shared it with me and it was so precious and I just felt so overwhelmed with joy that what I was putting into the love tiles was being received by these young children. And she explained to them that it was created by a real artist--is what she said--a real artist created in love, and that these tiles, no matter where her grandchildren, children would be that she as a grandmother, she was gifting this piece of artwork to them to carry with them wherever they go. And she would always be there with them. And she said, "I just wanted to share that you are gifting your light into this world and your loved tiles are doing that."[00:07:19] And I just couldn't appreciate that comment more than I. I just had no words for it. I got a little teary-eyed, and I know there's a lot of creatives out there that are wondering if their creative talents are being received. And I'm here to tell you that they are, if there's any doubt-- well, just don't have any doubt that when you are living on purpose, you are doing good. You are being of service to others in the world, whether someone verbally tells you or not.[00:07:51] So the second part of this is just a few days ago. Well, yeah, it was just a few days ago that same person called me and she said, "You know, Mother's Day is coming up"--at the time that we're recording this, Mother's Day is right around the corner. And so she called and she said, "My grandkids decided to do something special for their mom." And they did like a spa day, if you will. And her son recorded this moment and the mom is laying there with her arms out to the side and she's got like a mud mask on and her little--I think it might be a six-year-old--a little granddaughter was doing a guided meditation for her mother.[00:08:33] This is the part where, like, tears welled up in my eyes of joy. She said, "Erin, I have to tell you what's part of this recording is so precious. She is using your love tile as part of her guided meditation for her mom, like she's doing this guided meditation and she's holding your love title, Erin." And it just humbled me so much that God has given me this gift to be able to infuse this divine liquid love. I love to call it divine liquid love that we have flowing within us, and it loves us more than anything in the whole entire. It's inconceivable how much this divine, liquid love, God-love, cares for us. And I felt so honored that I have been gifted this creative side to be able to give to others. And for those that are creative out there, know that that divine liquid love that flows within them is gifting this universe with that divine love.[00:09:36] And they should never, never, ever doubt it. And to those out there, your listeners that are not, you know, on the creative side, just know that when you see a work of art, whether you agree with it or not, know that it is coming from a place of love. It truly, truly is coming from a place of love. And if nothing else, just respect that there was a time, and--I guess I'm moving into a moment where, you know, I'd love to just reiterate the value of the arts whether it's dance, voice, poetry, writing, anything that is creative is so valuable. I was commissioned to do a work of art for the designer, the Symphony Designer Show House here in Kansas City a few years back.[00:10:30] And I put so much of my personal love, that divine liquid love went into it. It took several days to create the work of art. And I have to tell you, Lindsey, as soon as I finished it, like, I wish I did--I didn't literally do this, but I could have slept for three days because I gave so much of my soul. I know that you can relate with the work that you do, and the shows that you put together, so much of who you are and your soul into it, that, you know, when an when an artist performs, or if you pay a certain ticket price or you decide to buy a work of art, know that there is great value in what you are purchasing.[00:11:17] And it goes beyond just the ticket price that it will serve you beyond that. So, those are, that's how I go about my artwork and how I go about my life anymore. And I just hope that this message reaches, even if it just reaches one person, one artist or non-artist that feels compelled to dive deeper into their artistic side. Then I'm living on purpose and I'm honored to be here with you today.[00:11:45] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah. I love that you brought up the fact that you don't know who you're impacting through your art and it can even be something where, whether you consider yourself to be an artist or not--which I, as a little aside, I think that everyone is an artist in their own right. But whether you consider yourself to be one or not, you still have something to contribute to, to help make the world more beautiful.[00:12:10] Erin Paige: I couldn't agree more. And you are absolutely on point when you say that really everyone's an artist. And I just think that everyone has a unique gift that they come into this lifetime with. And you know, it's not a gift unless you share it. I'll just be sharing it all the time, whether it's just a smile to a stranger, you never know how much they might need that. I mean, in that, you know, a smile is a form of art. I really think that. Right?[00:12:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I agree. So from talking to you previously, I know that there was another story that you told me that I, I just think would be awesome for our listeners to hear, if you're okay with sharing it. But it was about the little art installation you did for, was it a hospital or a doctor's office? And kind of the result of that?[00:13:01] Erin Paige: Oh yes. Okay. So I gifted several pieces or several works of art to Menorah Medical Center here in the Kansas City area, and they were installed in the cardiac department because, of course, I paint hearts. So, you know, cardiac department and my hearts--they were a good fit and they had these blank walls and they just needed life. And so I said, you know, we had talked about this and that. And you know, my heart just told me that I needed to gift them a few pieces of artwork. So I installed 10 pieces of artwork, and down this hallway that was once just white walls and several of the employees they walked by and they said, "Are you the artist.?"[00:13:57] And I said, "Yes, I am!" And they said, "Oh, thank you so much for making our walk into work more joyful. We just love coming into work now and walking down the small section of the hallway, even if it's just a small section of the hallway, we are so appreciative of your artwork and it makes us just enjoy being in this place." And that warms my heart again. That was a moment where, I guess, honestly, I really didn't think--I kept thinking about, like, the cardiac patients and their families. I wasn't even thinking about the employees. I wasn't even thinking about beyond the walls of the box that I had built, that I was just going to, you know, bring joy to the heart patients because the artwork is actually right outside one of the physical therapy rooms. And that's one of the reasons why we chose that space. So when patients would leave therapy, they would see these hearts and--it goes back to what you say--you said earlier that you just never know who you're impacting. And I just never really thought about the ripple effect; that it wasn't just about the patients and their families.[00:15:17] It was about the employees. It was about the doctors and the nurses or anyone that was walking through, visiting the hospital, maybe, you know? Who knows? I have these visions and I do hope that this has happened. I have these visions of maybe like visitors getting lost. I mean, hospitals, they--you can get easily lost in a hospital, right? Because of the different hallways and departments and you get off the wrong floor. And it's my hope that maybe someone, you know, took a wrong turn and they happen to go down this hallway and they see my artwork and maybe it's brought them a little peace and some love today. So yes, that's the story. Thank you for reminding me.[00:15:57] Lindsey Dinneen: I just love that story. Yeah, that is really special. And, yeah, isn't that so interesting, because again, your original vision for--it was maybe one thing, but it actually touched, like you said, the ripple effect it, it has touched so many more lives even in than what you expected and that's, that's so cool.[00:16:15] Erin Paige: I'll take that. It is cool. I mean, it just--I'm smiling ear to ear to think that, you know, maybe a little work of art could change somebody's--the trajectory of someone's day can change. You know, turn their smile or frown upside down into a smile. So, yeah. Yeah, I am proud of that. And I'm honored to do that for people.[00:16:40] Lindsey Dinneen: Absolutely. Well, and I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing just a little bit about sort of your process in writing your guided journal, because I think that that's a pretty unique work of art in and of itself. And I'm just curious: is there like, a backstory or how did you come to create that?[00:16:56]Erin Paige: Well, there is a story with that. So my journal is called, "I Release You to Become Who You Came Here to Be." It's a little bit long, longer title, but I just couldn't see any other way to title it, except for that. So the backstory behind it is, I am a mother of an adult now. It's hard to, hard to say that, but, he just turned 18. But for four years, when he was younger, I would text him what I called mom-isms.[00:17:26] And they were really just divine downloads, I called them, about life. I'd be driving or I'd be doing something and I would have this message come to me about life. And so I would text my son. In fact, I have it right... I have my journal right here. Let's just say it ended up the journal is 18, what I like to call, notes to self, which started out as mom-isms and--Oh, this is a good one. So number two is: take responsibility for how comfortable you are. So really getting out of that comfort zone. And so if you can imagine me typing this out on a text message, and then I would put a heart, and then I would put "mom-ism." So the interesting thing is if you, if anyone else out there has kids, you know, that most likely you probably aren't going to get on something like this from your mother.[00:18:23] Probably won't get a response, but I will say this, that I knew, again, it goes back to who you are impacting, who you are influencing. I kept sending those mom-isms. I kept taking what I was doing and looking at what I was doing and making sure that I was a positive impact in my son's life. And even if I was doing something, you know, we all have moments where we're probably not the most proud of, or if, you know, taking those moments and turning them around and going...okay. How can I become a better person by learning from this, and this not-so-good moment, turning it into seeing something good.[00:19:09] And then that teaches everyone around us. They see that shift in us. So, I've been sending all these mom-ism and then out of the blue, I sent him, what is actually number three out of 18: when you feel good, you could go out and do good. And he replied and he goes, "That's a good one." And you know, out of all of them--yes, my journal book only has 18, but I have a lot more--so out of all of them that I was sending, he finally returned one message that, you know what, I'm making a difference in his life and this response is all I need, as validation, I suppose.[00:19:52] So, that's the meaning behind, "I Release You to Become Who You Came Here to Be," and it's a working journal. So there's the statements, about what's written, so each one--there's the mom-ism or the, or the note to self, then there's a description or, you know, kind of my take on it. And then the flip the page, and there was an opportunity, some thought provoking questions for you to be able to answer. So that's the story behind the book journal. It all comes from being a mama.[00:20:22] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that. Well, thank you for sharing. I know I kind of put you on the spot there, but I was very curious.[00:20:30] Erin Paige: I love sharing those moments because I call him my grandest gift. He has been my grandest teacher, and he's real direct with me anymore. He's an adult now, ladies and gentlemen. Sometimes we don't want to hear what, you know, the truth. You know what? Oh my goodness, I just had no idea that, you know, your perception is a lot different than mine and it was good feedback. So, yeah. That's why I call him my grandest gift because he helps expand my soul every day. And I'm grateful for that.[00:21:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that.[00:21:05]Erin Paige: You assisted me and I'll talk about--if I could just a second, switch it to you a minute--you gifted me with a really great story. Part of when you participated in my GLAAL project. Oh my gosh. and I'd love to share a little bit about that because I think that that's just a continuation of not only the artistic side of me, but the side of me that really, and truly hopes that I leave a small little prints on this world when I leave it, when my time is up here, but GLAAL is "Go Live An Amazing Life." And that was just another message, if you will, where I was having my pity party. Okay, you know, we all have them. I always say that it's--everyone has the right to their pity party. It's how long you stay at the party that matters. One day I was having a little bit of a pity party, and I allow myself 24 hours. Now, you know, it used to be like months, if not years, where parties--I would get stuck in them and wallow in them. And you know, so typically what happens is, I crawl, you know, those moments where you want to crawl back in bed. And I'm like, man, I'm not going to talk to the world today. And then I go, wait a minute. This is so silly. Do you live an amazing life, Erin? I have an amazing son. I have amazing friends like you and so many others out there. And do you have a unique gift to share with the world today?[00:22:45] Yes. Okay. I'll get out of bed and I'll just, you know, I'll turn my frown upside down. So I thought about it and I was like, gosh, I do live an amazing life. I'm surrounded in love and that is a gift in itself. And so I thought, well, there's other people out there that are living amazing lives and they're choosing to see the good, even in the not-so-good.[00:23:09] I would love to hear their stories. So that's how my GLAAL project started. So I interview people. Basically, I asked them to share a GLAAL story, where they took, you know, maybe it's a moment where it was not so good and they turned it into a good moment. Maybe it's a time where, you know, love really came through and powered through for them. And you participated in this project![00:23:37]And it was, oh my goodness. You just, you gifted me that day. I thought about that for so long--how you too, through everything that you do are, you are impacting the world and you had shared about, you know, a couple people coming to you and, and expressing how much they appreciate you and what, and the light that you're shining out there.[00:24:01] And, we're all in this together. I mean, you know, we're all sharing similar experiences and we should all just be sharing, sharing, sharing, sharing the unique light that you are. So that's my GLAAL project and it's really taking off and I just can't wait to hear other people's stories because I am completely blessed every time I listened to one. And so I'm just going to say one more time, thank you, thank you. Thank you for participating in my project and being a part of it.[00:24:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, of course. No, it was absolutely my honor and joy to be a part of it, but I would highly encourage everyone to check out her GLAAL project because it is truly inspiring. And when you need an uplift, hearing the stories is just--it's so incredible to hear how people are taking difficult situations and transforming them into beautiful things. Or sometimes it's just, you know, talking about little ways that you can make a difference and it's all really inspiring. And so actually, as a result of that, Erin, where can we connect with you and see these, see your artwork and hear these stories and all that?[00:25:14] Erin Paige: Oh, absolutely. I would love for your audience to check it out. My website is Erin Paige, P A I G E. It's my first and middle name, erinpaige.com. And my blog is where you can see all of the GLAAL stories, and then I do have my love tiles and a journal and all of that in my products and shop, yeah, shopping sections. So that's where you can reach me. I also have a YouTube channel, which is just, if you look up Erin Paige, I'll pop up.[00:25:49] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you. You definitely want to check out what she does and her work because it is really beautiful and inspiring. But Erin, I have a couple questions, if that's okay, that I like to ask my guests, if that works for you.[00:26:01]Erin Paige: Of course![00:26:02] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay! So first of all, how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:26:08] Erin Paige: Art to me is an expression of the soul. And I think that that just comes in many forms, whether it's a street performer that feels the need--even a little kid that is dancing to some music, I consider that art.  So really anything that you're inspired to do that your soul is telling you to do? That's how I see art.[00:26:39]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love that very much. And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:26:44] Erin Paige: To be authentic. I think it's vital as an artist to be as true to yourself as you possibly can. To be as authentic--oh, I just got covered in goosebumps-- that's, that's how I know I'm speaking from my authentic self, I always tell people. Yeah, just to be as authentic as possible, and that serves others. If you're not showing up in your most soulful or authentic self, you are denying those of us that are looking at your art, watching your art, listening to your art--you're denying us that divine gift. So please, please, please. think it's vital for artists to be responsible in their artwork by being as authentic as possible. And that's, that's what I have to say about that.[00:27:40] Lindsey Dinneen: I love it. Thank you. Okay. And then my final question, and I'll explain my terms a little bit, but: do you think art should be inclusive or exclusive? And what I mean by that is exclusive meaning that an artist puts something out there and you don't necessarily know what inspired it, what the intention for it is, or the context is just sort of like, here's my piece, and here it is for the world. And then it's kind of up to the world to interpret. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist does share a little bit about what they've created. Maybe, the feeling that prompted it, or even just like a title or just some context to kind of help the audience, just know a little bit more about where the artist is coming from.[00:28:31] Erin Paige: Well, my answer to that is...I think it depends. I think it depends on the audience. I think, I think there's, you can find balance with the inclusiveness and the exclusiveness to something because sometimes our art just needs to be interpreted solely by the viewer. And I think that if it calls to you to, you know, even titles... I mean, that influences the person that sees it right when they read it. So I suppose it depends on the intention of the artwork of the artist, where what's the intention behind it? Does it need to be inclusive? Or can it just stand on its own and be exclusive? Yeah, I really truly think it just depends on how the artist feels about their work of art.[00:29:26] Lindsey Dinneen: That's another great answer. Well, I just want to say again, Erin, thank you so much for joining me on this show. And, I know that I am feeling inspired and I'm sure our listeners are too, but I just wanna say, for my own sake, thank you so much for sharing your art with the world, for being brave and being responsible and authentic in what you do and for truly making the world a more beautiful place, more inspirational place.. And, thank you for impacting people you don't even know you're impacting. I really appreciate it.[00:30:04] Erin Paige: Well, you are--I'm just going to say, you're welcome. Someone taught me a long ago to just say thank you or you're welcome, and leave it at that. It is an honor to be with you today and to share my stories and to answer your questions as authentically as I can.[00:30:21] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, I love it. Okay. Well, thank you again so much to everyone who's listening to this episode. If you're feeling inspired and you have a friend or two that you feel would enjoy this too, please share this with anyone and everyone. And we will catch you next time.[00:30:41] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:30:52] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Bluprint, which is the most amazing website for artists and makers of all levels. Bluprint lets you dig into anything you've ever daydreamed about doing, like dance, fitness, yoga, art, and home decorating, plus all the arts and crafts categories you know and love. More than 13 million enthusiasts, from artists to quilters and beyond, make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy, on-demand content, access to the world's top experts, and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving. Creative community. Super cool. And even better currently they're offering 50% off their classes. So if you are interested in taking advantage of that, learning a new skill, having an amazing time, working with experts in their fields, you will love to take advantage of this offer. And you'll just click on the link in my comments and my show notes, and you'll be rocking and rolling.

In this episode, I welcome Roman Mykyta! Roman is an incredible professional dancer, who has trained his entire life in classical ballet and traditional Ukranian folk dancing. He shares some of the most impactful encounters with art that inspired him to become an artist.  Get in touch with Roman Mykyta: /https://www.facebook.com/roman.mykyta.5Bluprint: More than 13 million enthusiasts - from artists to quilters and beyond - make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy on-demand content, access to the world’s top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun-loving creative community. Click here and use promo code 50OFF2 for 50% off all courses!Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 006 - Roman MykytaLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told ,where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman Mykyta: All I can do is put my part in to the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really.  I mean, as long as you you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23]Elna:  Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Hello and welcome. This is Artfully Told, and I am so excited that you are joining me again today to learn about stories about art. And I am just really, really excited because I have a  truly wonderful person on my show today that gets to be my guest and I am really honored to have him here with me and with all of you. He is a very accomplished dancer, but also just a rock solid person, so kind and generous . So, thank you so much to Roman Mykyta for being with us today and I'm so glad you're here. Thank you.[00:01:13] Roman Mykyta: Thank you, Lindsey, so much for having me. That was such a nice introduction. I'm so happy to be on this podcast. I think that this is a great podcast, such a great subject, meaningful encounters with art. As just mentioned before, that's such a rich topic and I'm so honored to be on this podcast and talk about it.[00:01:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Wonderful.  So would you mind just sharing a little bit about, you know, who you are and maybe a little bit about your journey with art?[00:01:40] Roman Mykyta: Of course. So I am a dancer. The first story I want to share about my meaningful encounter with art was kind of my first inspiration to be a dancer, but I'll save that for the next bit. But when I was very young, I was inspired to be a dancer and, it was actually Ukrainian folk dancing. My grandfather was from Ukraine. As I go into the story, he brought me this video of the Ukrainian National Dance Ensemble. It's called the Virsky Ensemble.  I saw that video and I was inspired to start dancing. I  started in a local Ukrainian dance ensemble, but just, for anyone who's ever seen Ukrainian dancing it's--if you have an image of cossack dancing, it's the same type of thing.[00:02:22] There's a lot of squats, a lot of big jumps and all of these, very exciting dances and tricks. And it's a mix between ballet already being part of Ukrainian culture, as well as just the, the ability to do those types of movement with good technique. I was really encouraged from a young age to start taking ballet as a type of cross training. And so I started Ukrainian dance when I was five, but by the time I was seven, I was taking ballet lessons. And just from there, kind of the rest is history. I trained throughout school and throughout high school as a dancer and doing ballet and Ukrainian dance, as well as all other, different styles of dance, folk dances, as well as styles like modern or jazz. And after I graduated high school I had the opportunity to audition for the ballet company, which was in my state.[00:03:15] And that was  Ballet Theater of Maryland.  I danced in the Ballet Theater of Maryland a total of about four years--four seasons. And then there was actually an opportunity to travel to Ukraine and to work with that group, which was the very first group that was, in the video that my grandfather gave me, and as you could imagine, just that opportunity was very unique and kind of like a dream come true. And so I took advantage of that opportunity and, I went to Ukraine, starting in the fall of 2017 and I am staying there continuing to dance. And also, as I had mentioned, I went right from high school into the ballet company, but while I'm in Ukraine, I'm also getting a degree in dance, pedagogy and choreography. Just for me being there, I feel completely in my element professionally.[00:04:09] There really is in my niche, because in addition to the normal styles of dance that you would do, for example, here in the USA, they also really focus on developing the choreographic and pedagogical skills, like in pedagogy to teach, all of the theatrical folk dancing, which is just between Ukraine and Russia.[00:04:27] They really kind of specialize in that style. And, even when I'm in the USA, I'm usually called upon to dance some of those roles or to teach that kind of style. And so just in the longterm, having, having that experience and having that education from Ukraine really means a lot. My typical life right now--I'm living in Kiev, dancing and studying, and also doing some other jobs that are kind of new to me. I'm doing a little bit of journalism, which started with writing reviews about some of the dance performances in Kiev, but has kind of evolved into other things.[00:04:59]I have a couple of interests, in addition to dance I love very much, but just all my life, dance and all of the other arts that are adjacent to it that are a touchstone have always been such a big part of my life, and remain such an important part of my life. It's definitely something that I'm so passionate about. I'm actually the first person in my family to be a dancer, although my parent, are both really-- not professionally--but they both really love the arts. My dad loves to play the guitar and he loves to sing. My mom also loves to sing and she likes to be in plays or in different musicals.[00:05:35]And so that's just the love for it--all the arts in general. Oh, and I forgot to mention it's also very important-- my dad, because my family, is the type of Christians who are Eastern Orthodox--my dad is also an iconographer, which is basically making the, religious art, the icons, which just are part of our tradition. And, so that's painting basically. So all the arts are really, special in our family. And I've always been so thankful that my parents have always been so supportive of my love for all of the arts and especially for dance, and supported me every step of the way, and continue to support me.[00:06:14]As I said, my typical, normal life right now is living in Kiev. But I am home right now, during the coronavirus. I'm working from home anyway, with my studies and it was just easier to come home during this time and do the quarantine with family. So right now I'm logging in from the USA. But, that's the overview of my life stories, especially related to dance and what I would consider also all the arts, but it's really colored by so many meaningful encounters that I've had with art, whether it's been initially inspired by it or how I feel when I, I'm going to perform, and kind of just how meaningful an experience that is to me.[00:07:01]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you have such a rich background and so much diversity with the art that you've been able to be a part of and exposed to and, with your family being so invested in it, I think that's incredible. I mean you've certainly been able to have just such a cool background that obviously shaped you as a person and as a dancer and an artist. And you're dabbling in other art, like writing with your journalism, which is very cool.[00:07:30] Roman Mykyta: Thank you so much. I do feel very blessed.[00:07:33] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, I know you do have a few meaningful encounters with art to share with us today. So I'm super excited to hear them.[00:07:41] Roman Mykyta: Yes. Since we first talked, Lindsey, I've just been thinking about so many different things and I'll try to--I want to share all of them--and, I'll try to keep them all organized. I think the most important one that I want to share is kind of my initial encounter with art, which was basically inspired me to be a dancer and I distinctly remember when my grandfather who was from Ukraine brought me that video of the Virsky Ukrainian Dance Ensemble. I distinctly remember watching it and just some of the thoughts that my two year old brain was having, 'cause I was two when he showed it to me. Again for those who have maybe, like an image from the collective consciousness of Ukrainian dancing, but I highly recommend anyone to look for it on YouTube, especially Virsky, spelled V I R S K Y. The costumes are incredibly colorful and the dancing, the typical theme is usually very joyful.[00:08:40] And it's very athletic, especially for the men's role. And so it's very impressive. And the women are also in their full costume, they all just seem so beautiful. And so, and just in the professional quality of the Virsky Ensemble, they just present thier folk dance. And, when they perform it--'cause they perform internationally--they're kind of serving as cultural ambassadors. And so in their professional style, they imbue all of that dancing with just the spirit of hospitality, the spirit of just openness, like this kind of agape love type of atmosphere kind of permeates so much of their show.  Culturally, it's the connection with other countries, as I said, kind of working as cultural ambassadors and spreading peace and love ultimately.[00:09:28] And just so their typical show is just so beautiful. Both in like the true ethnographic folk dance as well as just their presentation is just, making it the most beautiful and the most accessible as possible. Between the colorful costumes and just their bright smiles and just these beautiful looking people to me, I distinctly remember that dancers seemed like angels and the stage seemed like heaven.[00:09:55] And, in my young understanding of life, when I imagined heaven, I imagined that it was like that video that my grandfather showed me with all these people dancing. And, later in life, I read things, and heaven is also sometimes described as a dance. And so I guess that's not completely too much for two year old fantasy, but that was just the image of goodness and this kind of a perfect reality. And so, that's just, that was so special for me. And then as I said, when there was the opportunity to work with that group later in my life-- just once I had access to the opportunity, as you could imagine--it's not just, professionally and it's not just as a job to be with this particular company, but also just in my heart and in my soul, it was something which I just associate with only kind of these good things, blessings from life. And so it's just so meaningful. I feel very passionate about this topic, meaningful encounters with art. And my only regret is that I feel like just to talk about it is -- sometimes I can lose words to describe the whole effect.[00:11:03] I just encourage anything that I'm saying-- if any of the listeners can go and look and see yourself-- just because, I can describe it, but experiencing it is even better. So that I distinctly remember, with the Virsky Ensemble, just falling in love with these ideas about goodness, but then also just, dance was the medium and then just falling in love with a dance because of that. So that was the first thing that I saw and I watched that VHS tape so many times and whenever it would finish, I would be sad and beg for my parents or my grandparents, whoever was watching with me, to rewind it again, just so I could watch it from the beginning. I watched and I danced with it so many times[00:11:50] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that.[00:11:51]Roman Mykyta:  And so my dad's side of my family is from Ukraine, but my mom's side is actually Irish. And so, because they saw that I really loved Ukrainian dancing, they got me "Riverdance," and that was also a piece of art that was just so amazing to me as well. It's a completely different look and feel than the Ukrainian dancing, but it also just the theatrical effect of this type of performance is just amazing.[00:12:18] And whether it's the majesty of all of those dancers lined up and doing the Irish dancing with that powerful rhythm, it's like a completely different look and feel, as I said, from the Ukrainian dance, it creates such this powerful sensation.  In "Riverdance," there is the Irish dancers, also the flamenco dancers, and there are even the Russian dancers. And I think just seeing all of these different kinds of folk dancing, which had also like a personal connection with me and my family, but just seeing all of it and seeing all of the different interpretations of these life themes or concepts that you can find in these different dances from a very early age that introduced to me the idea of infinite variations of beauty, infinite variations of goodness. That helped me understand as a child, in a way, that concept of God is everywhere present .[00:13:04] And, that you can find, if it's something of goodness in every culture, you can find something of God in every culture. And that was really such a powerful concept  when I was little-- of course I didn't think of it quite like in the terms as I'm explaining it now-- but to kind of put into words, what I think I was feeling, as a child, and so that was-- I especially really loved both of those videos. and those were my first introductions into dance. And, any, even things like the colors of the costumes, the colors of the lighting, it was just all that's part of why the Sage was heaven to me because it could change and it could become colorful and it would just be so like, magical is probably the best word.[00:13:47]That was really amazing, but some other things meaningful encounters with art that I experienced in my childhood-- one that really comes to mind-- the second live show that I saw was actually my mom in a production of "Godspell."  For those who don't know, "Godspell" is a musical with music by Stephen Schwartz. And it's hard to describe again, but it's basically this impressionistic  theater piece, exploring the teachings of Jesus and especially from the gospel of Saint Matthew, while "Jesus Christ Superstar"--for those who are familiar with that is much more of like a dramatic passion play--"Godspell" is much more of taking the essence of the teachings. There is kind of a Jesus figure, but it's not meant to be as literal as "Jesus Christ Superstar," it's much more impressionistic and it's, it has this atmosphere to it because all of the ensemble is purposefully acting kind of clownish, like small children that came from the concept where it's like, you have to humble yourself as a small child to enter the kingdom of heaven.[00:14:49] And so, it was in this theater piece that creates this atmosphere of taking that with a group of typically adults who are playing in the show kind of to the maximum and when the show is done really well, the power of the gospel and then in that setting can-- it's just especially powerful. Now I remember it most because I remember when they would run through the audience. And I remember seeing my mom and I remember when there was a very dramatic scene and the lighting changed again. That's like an example of how to live, and when like the actors are acting in a way which is fully accessible, fully loving each other, just this beautiful community that is created on stage,  it's just kind of like this vision of how I would want my own life to be.[00:15:34]Again, for those who are not super familiar, I just recommend to maybe give that a try. "Godspell" was kind of a musical theater piece that I loved when I was little also because it came out around the, it came out in 1999, and at that time I was four. At that point, there were a couple of Andrew Lloyd Weber musicals that were being made in a very special, movie version format. And there was Joseph, "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat" with Donny Osmond. There was "Cats." Those were the two that again, we rented from the video store so many times and I watched over and over again.[00:16:10] I absolutely loved "Cats." I loved all the dancing in it and I would dance around to all the numbers. And that's another show that I really like. I think it's a little bit under appreciated. It seems very esoteric. It seems like maybe not a lot of people would get it. I encourage you, if you're not sure about "Cats," think of it like an exploration of how to be more human. It's through the dramatic exercise of acting like a cat or pretending to be a cat. And it's not so much like the actor being a cat, it's more about like a dancer being a cat because it's that whole kind of what our typical uniform is wearing legwarmers and things like that.[00:16:50] And just kind of moving in a maximumly expressive style, not like super in a classical form, like in ballet, but it's a mix between ballet and jazz. And so if you can kind of discover your humanity in that, I encourage to look at it kind of with those sides and not to worry about it too much, being two hours about the life of a cat or life of cats.[00:17:12] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. But the music is incredible, so it does have that going for it, for sure. And yeah, and the movement quality is, is amazing.[00:17:19] Roman Mykyta: Any Andrew Lloyd Weber music definitely lends itself to a transcendent quality. And so if, if the music is good, it's, it's trying to pull out something interesting in the story, and so I definitely, and how kind of amazing and creative to like, do something a little bit unconventional, but still get something, which is still meaningful. I would consider those four the major things from my childhood, and kind of the things which really kind of inspired my love for all the performing arts, the arts in general, especially dance.[00:17:53] I feel like it's also really important to talk about my time dancing   Some people don't always get classical ballet or on the surface or don't always get it. I definitely encourage a lot of people who are less familiar with ballet, just to know that ballet has a really big history and therefore also has a really big range. And I most people know ballet just like for the Tchaikovsky ballets, which are really beautiful in of themselves like "Swan Lake" or "Nutcracker."[00:18:24] But if they feel kind of not connected to their time or even connected to their culture, can feel a little bit divorced from their experience. But I would just encourage, there's a huge history of ballet with a lot of different movements in it's evolution of choreographic art, in the same way that the fine arts of painting or music also went through several reinventions or renovation, so to speak.[00:18:48]For my experience when I was dancing in a ballet company, what was most, and still is really important for me is--as I kind of explained just even from like my very young years, just that effect that performance, could have for me, especially a dance performance or a musical theater performance.  It really is convicting to me to create the same experience, the best that I can--just to pray that I can-- for whatever audience, it's coming to see the performance. I love it, especially when we're doing "Nutcracker" and we have an audience of kids, because I just hope that we can, as a cast, make the story, make the show, as big ,theatrical, colorful as when I was really little like watching "Joseph" was for me.[00:19:34] In order for me to kind of invest in a role, I have always tried to find the deeper meaning of a story and sometimes dance literature doesn't always go quite as deep. But if the ballet has a fairytale connected to it, chances are analysts have kind of unpacked that fairy tale for its meanings and things, which are the big major truths that anyone in different walks of life can take from it. I'm not dancing for myself. I'm not dancing to get the applause of other people. I kind of suffer from some stage fright. And if I was dancing for myself, it really wouldn't be worth it. But the only way that really makes it worth it is if I feel like I'm doing something, which is meaningful--that I'm telling a parable, so to speak, or participating in a parable, which is going to be impacting.[00:20:26] And the only part that I can do is just dance with that intention. And it's really, this is the interesting thing how art works--because all I can do is put my part out into the world. Not every audience member is going to see the--they'll see the same ballet--but they won't necessarily get the same thing out of it. It kind of comes from where you're coming from or even the personal tastes that you have and how you feel about things. Certainly not everything is for everyone. And, a big thing with enjoying a piece is also just whatever mood you're in before you're going in to see it. And for me, whenever I'm an audience member, I always try to be really open to whatever I'm going to see, try to really understand and try to unpack for myself what potential meanings could be.  They can be all kinds of things that can be more literal or they can be very impressionistic. It's just like a mood-- it's kind of, it's hard to quantify all these things because part of the infinite nature of it is that it can be all of these different variations and it's hard to pinpoint them or classify them all.[00:21:33] I talked about what I do as a dancer, but as an audience member, I love to just watch, try to understand, and I find a lot of joy just from unpacking what I can understand out of it, maybe debriefing about it with whoever I went to go see the show with or something like that. That to me, that's, that's my ideal night out, both participating in or watching and discussing it, both sides, I really like.[00:21:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for those insights. Yeah. I just want to encourage people to have open conversations about art and to please ask questions. I can't speak for all artists universally, but I can certainly speak for myself and I think for Roman as well, and a lot of artists that we love curiosity. We would love to help answer any questions you have. So if something's unclear or you just are curious as to why we chose a certain element to what we do, I think most of us would love the opportunity to share more about our process, about what inspired us about why we made the choices that we did, because we are trying to be so intentional about the way that we create. And so having those honest conversations is really special.[00:22:47] Roman Mykyta: And I could say the same thing for myself as well. As I said, nothing energizes me more than either performing, choreographing, or talking about it, or watching-- just to encourage dialogue, between audience member and performer or creator, I think that that is the best way to, to share and to, and just like this podcast, to share our meaningful encounters with art, and this podcast is such a good platform.[00:23:17] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you so much for that insight.  I just have a couple of questions for you to wrap this up. The first is how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:23:30] Roman Mykyta: Art is ultimately a worldview. I'm sorry, I just want to be thoughtful and not leave anything out, but I think art starts with a worldview and it can be-- it's very intentional and it's very presentational and it's always a form of communication with the creator and the viewer. But where my head is now I kind of feel like art is everywhere around us, even just looking out the window. The art is within the worldview to be able to see anything and to give it meaning, and it can be good or bad meaning, but I personally always like the good meeting, and to just kind of commune with all of these things in our life, which are indicative of something which is truthful and, in my mind, truthful also goes with, goes along with good. I feel like art can be like that. There's that kind of statement--art is in the eye of the beholder. And I feel like that's--that can be true that art can just be a person's worldview and how they give meaning to the world.[00:24:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Excellent. I love it. Okay, my second question is what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:24:41] Roman Mykyta: Hmm. I think the most important role of an artist is to be truthful about reality and how they see it. And along with that, to be honest, that opens up a lot of different doors, whether being truthful and honest is being very joyful and expressing the beauty in life, or it can be expressing the pain that we all feel, and then the way you treat that, whether it's with humor, with seriousness or drama, I feel like there's a place for all of those things. I'm sensitive personally about not overloading audience with what's negative.[00:25:18]It's really important to be honest, to be raw and to express pain, honestly, but in a way, I feel like we are so inundated by bad news, and just other dramas and political things that I almost feel like if we're so out of balance that way, I would encourage artists to-- it gives the audience a bread and life from the other side. 'Cause in my personal life, I feel like in the people who I know we need more of a goodness color and light than we need more anger, but ultimately it's important to just be honest and truthful.[00:25:58] Lindsey Dinneen: My final question is, do you think art should be exclusive or inclusive? And I'll define that a little bit more: exclusive, meaning that the artist puts something out into the world and doesn't give a whole lot of context for it, whether that's not, you know, providing program notes or description or something like that. So you don't necessarily know the inspiration or the reasoning behind it. Versus inclusive, meaning that the artist gives you that context, tells you why they chose the colors that they did, or, or the particular movement pattern that they did or whatever. So kind of inviting you into that process. So you understand a little bit more of the artist's intention.[00:26:42] Roman Mykyta: I definitely feel like I understand. For me, when I am presenting either in the performance or creator mode, I value being inclusive. I really, as I said, I personally just really like to dialogue. And so, whether it is a program notes or, giving an intro or just dialoguing with anyone who I'm currently working with, or anyone who has seen what I've done.[00:27:09] And, you know, I'm always happy to talk about it because to me, the joy is in the dialogue. And I understand on the exclusive side, some people like to have the openness to variety of meanings and not to peg something down, so that people, audience members, can be free with their imagination. But I personally feel that even inclusive mold, you know, audience members can listen, but they can also still freely form their own opinion.[00:27:38] I guess it depends on the personalities of individual people. Maybe some people, if they are given more insight, they're going to just stick with that and maybe not think about other things, and so preserving the exclusive mold just helps to keep that open, but I personally really like the inclusive mold. And even, in my experience, as an audience member with either the inclusive or the exclusive mold, I mean, I'm really hungry for the creator or the performer to give me their inclusive worldview. Even if I get that, I still freely form my own thoughts about something.   There could be a movie musical piece of music that the creator/performers shared their worldview and it might not be something that I completely understand or, even agree with. I personally think there's nothing lost with the inclusive mold and it's ultimately just great to have the dialogue.[00:28:39] Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. That is really great insight. And I really appreciate your perspective about how dialogues about art can create so much more meaning to your encounters. And I think that that is so important. What stood out to me about what you said was you're talking about how having the inclusive mold does not mean that you can't take from it what you will anyway. Even if you have the context of what the artist originally intended doesn't mean that you can't also draw your own conclusions.[00:29:13] And I think that's a really nice balance and I haven't heard it said like that before, so thank you for that. And I just want to say, in general, Roman, thank you so much for being on this podcast and thank you so much for your heart for art and your heart for the world. You help make the world a better place because you're willing to share your art as a dancer, choreographer, journalist. And I truly believe that in what you're doing, you're making the world a more beautiful, inclusive place. And I just want to say thank you for that, because I know I appreciate it personally, but I, I know that what you do does impact the world. So thank you for that.[00:29:53]Roman Mykyta: Oh, my goodness. Thank you, Lindsey, so much.  That was such beautiful words. I'm just so honored and so thankful that I was invited to be a part of this podcast and I just think, we were talking about how meaningful dialogues are--this podcast, I think is so crucial in promoting that. And I cannot wait to hear all the more episodes from all the future guests that you will have. And just to be able to have that listening dialogue with all the other artists who you will have.[00:30:29] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you again so much, Roman, for joining me today. And thank you so much to all of our listeners who have tuned in. I hope you feel inspired and rejuvenated and ready to witness some art and have great conversations about it because that's what it's all about. If this episode particularly inspired you today, would you just share it with a friend or two who might also be inspired? And until then we will catch you next time.[00:30:57] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:31:07] Hey, Artfully Told listeners. I'm excited to share with you about Bluprint, which is the most amazing website for artists and makers of all levels. Bluprint lets you dig into anything you've ever daydreamed about doing like dance, fitness, yoga, art, and home decorating, plus all the arts and crafts categories you know and love. More than 13 million enthusiasts, from artists to quilters and beyond, make Bluprint their home for binge-worthy, on-demand content, access to the world's top experts and curated supplies, all served up in a fun, loving creative community. Super cool. And even better, currently they're offering 50% off their classes. So if you are interested in taking advantage of that, learning a new skill, having an amazing time, working with experts in their fields--you will love to take advantage of this offer. And you'll just click on the link in my comments and my show notes, and you'll be rocking and rolling.

In this episode, I welcome Danielle Guy! Danielle is a well-rounded artist who is currently pursuing her passion of directing plays and musicals. She shares about one of the most difficult directing experiences she's had by tackling a very controversial musical.  Get in touch with Danielle Guy: https://danielledirects.com/Artist's Edge: The Mission of Artist’s EDGE is to raise the level of Business Intelligence, Life Skills and Emotional Intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, their creativity, and their unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Click here to access all courses!Artfully Told links: www.facebook.com/artfullytold | www.artfullytold.podbean.com | elevateartskc@gmail.comSchedule your interview with Artfully Told! https://calendly.com/artfullytold/podcast-interview Intro & Outro Music Credits:Bad Ideas (distressed) by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3412-bad-ideas-distressed-License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ SHOW NOTES:Episode 005 - Danielle GuyLindsey Dinneen: Hello, and welcome to Artfully Told, where we share true stories about meaningful encounters with art.[00:00:06] Krista: I think artists help people have different perspectives on every aspect of life.[00:00:12] Roman: All I can do is put my part out in to the world.[00:00:15] Elizabeth: It doesn't have to be perfect the first time. It doesn't have to be perfect ever really. I mean, as long as you, you're enjoying doing it and you're trying your best, that can be good enough.[00:00:23] Elna: Art is something that you can experience with your senses and that you just experience as, as so beautiful.[00:00:31] Lindsey Dinneen: Well, hello, welcome back to Artfully Told. Thank you so much for joining me again. I'm Lindsey, and I am so excited to have the wonderful Danielle Guy on our podcast today. She is a wonderful human being, but also an artist and just has so many amazing. stories to tell about life, about art, and I'm just so excited to have her. So thank you so much, Danielle, for joining us. We're so happy![00:01:04] Danielle Guy: Yes, and thank you so much for having me.[00:01:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yay. Well, can you share a little bit about who you are and your involvement in art and all that fun stuff?[00:01:14]Danielle Guy: Yeah, so I have kind of dipped my toes into a lot of different art styles, with dance and music; I was for the longest time a pianist and opera singer, and then I went into theater, which is kind of where I found my, my niche. And I started out acting specifically in classical works, with Shakespeare. But as time has developed, I have really found my position as a director. And it's, it's fun to see how things have changed and morphed over the years from, you know, thinking I was one thing and then leading into this place that I never thought I'd be.  I had a theater company for a while as well, and now I'm just doing freelance, freelance directing work.[00:02:08]Lindsey Dinneen:  Awesome. And, I just have to caveat. So Danielle is my adopted cousin, just to give some context, and I can attest to the fact that she was probably always born for theater, because--do you want to just share a little bit about your birthday parties?[00:02:31] Danielle Guy: Oh, my God. Okay. So I was such a weird kid. So when I think it was the first time we did this, I might have been eight. I had these books that was like Shakespeare for kids. And I got inspired by them and I told my mom that for my birthday, I wanted to have a Shakespeare party and we're going to-- the first one was "12th Night." I was like, we're going to put on a play of "12th Night." And so  I  made all my friends come over and I told them what roles that they would be, and we would create, like, it was probably like 10 to 15 minutes versions of Shakespeare's plays. And we did that for four years.[00:03:23] Lindsey Dinneen: It was so fun.[00:03:24] Danielle Guy: Oh my gosh, thank you! And then remember we used to do the American Girl doll plays all the time.[00:03:31]Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that, but you're right, we did. That was so fun.[00:03:35] Danielle Guy: And I was Marta in the Kirsten story, and my death scene was impeccable.[00:03:41] Lindsey Dinneen: I'm sure it was. So all that to say, it really--those of us who've known her, it comes as no surprise that eventually she would become a director and have had her own company and all of that jazz. But no, we had hours and hours of  so much fun putting together these plays. And I think if I remember correctly for "Romeo and Juliet," I'm pretty sure we had to have like a progressive theater experience for the audience because we did the balcony scene, like, on the landing of the stairs or something?[00:04:17] Danielle Guy: Yes. Yeah, it was a, it was definitely situational art . It was very ahead of its time.[00:04:23]Lindsey Dinneen: I hope there's video footage. I don't think I ever want to see it, but just to know it exists.[00:04:28] Danielle Guy: My mom has all of them. I never want to see it ever, but I know it exists.[00:04:34]Lindsey Dinneen:  Yes, those were some great memories right there, but I know you have probably a bazillion stories to tell, but, yeah, we'd love to share with you, and if there's anything in particular that stands out.[00:04:47] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So a lot of things that people don't understand when they think of, like, theater--and I will even say some theaters take themselves a little too seriously. And when you go in there, like this is the vision, this is how it's going to go. And this is how it will always go and there will be no change,  but I feel like a lot of people don't realize the flexibility and also the, the acceptance that you have to have going in as a director, because you see it in like, movies and TV shows all the time of the trope of the director who's a tyrant and everything must go their way, but honestly, we have to answer to a lot of people. And we also have to take into account just what materially you have to work with--there are actors and their limitations. And, you will go into something thinking that it's going to look one way, but the end product is completely different.[00:05:49] And I think the one that, that really showed up as was the past production that I did, which was "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I did that at Dominion Stage in Arlington. It's the first one that I did since I moved to the DC area. And just to give you an idea, I was not supposed to direct that musical. At all. I went in first with a proposal for a play called "City of Conversation."[00:06:19] It's a straight play. It's very much up my alley. Typically I do small cast family-led dramas, not musicals. I've done a few here and there, but that was very much my niche, and they really liked that. But then they were trying to flush out their season and they're like, "Well, we really don't have a main stage musical. Do you have a proposal for a main stage musical?" And I had one for "Next to Normal," which is one of my favorite musicals in the entire world. And so they decided after I gave a presentation to go with that and I was like, "Cool." So I am planning this, this four to five person musical that is all about mental health. It's female-driven, all the things that really get me going. And then the Kennedy Center announced that they were going to do "Next to Normal." So our rights got pulled.[00:07:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh...[00:07:21] Danielle Guy: I know! And I remember, I will never forget, I was on Instagram and I was just scrolling and I saw the Kennedy Center come up and I was like, "Oh cool. They're announcing what they're doing." I was like, "Awesome. Would love to go see that and that, and oh... oh no. Oh, no." I texted my producer, my executive producer on the board. I was like, "Hey, I don't think we're going to do "Next to Normal." Am I correct in this?" They're like, "Yeah, we're totally not." So our rights got pulled and I didn't know what to do.[00:08:05] And I sat down with my best friend and my fiance, Matt, Matt Calvert . And we were going through the alphabet and we were coming up with musical proposals that I could write for, and A, B, C, and then we, we narrowed it down and there's this musical called "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson." And I immediately said no, because "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" is kind of like the cursed production of theater, because it's very controversial. It's-- if anyone has seen "The Book of Mormon," it's satire like that, but not as well written. And also the satire doesn't always come across as satire. Some people take it a little too seriously, and I understand why, because of the writing.[00:09:01]It's a satirical work of the presidency of Andrew Jackson and specifically his removal of the Native Americans from the East and moving them out West. And it's done in a punk rock setting. It's very heavy distortions. It's extremely into, in your face.  This production has been protested by a lot of people because specifically there's one, one number and it called "10 Little Indians." And in the original production, they had a whole bunch of white people dressed up in feathers and garb , and when it came out originally, it was kind of right before all of that really came into view. But especially now it's like, no, we were not going to do that.[00:09:54] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah.[00:09:55]Danielle Guy: But I created a proposal for it and like five other shows and I did a big old dump for the board and they're like, "That's the one we're going to do." "Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson" And I remember asking them, I was like, "Are you sure?" And honestly, I think that was a very smart move, especially for what's happening right now. Some people don't know this, President Trump has a portrait of Andrew Jackson in the Oval Office. And Andrew Jackson is one of the most controversial and most xenophobic presidents that we've ever had.[00:10:28]So that's fun. And specifically for Dominion , their theater company, they are not afraid of making those comments or being controversial. So, wow. I was able to do this, but when I went in, I had this this idea where it's like, of course, we're not going to--we're not going to portray the Native Americans with a whole bunch of white people. We're not going to put head dresses on them. We're going to have none of that. Of course, I was like, we're very much going to keep it as respectful as possible. But fortunately with the cast that I had and how brave they were, what it ended up being was just this powerhouse of social justice.[00:11:13]Lindsey Dinneen: Hm.[00:11:14]Danielle Guy: I was very surprised with how young the cast was. Our youngest person was 21, and the dedication that they had to the entire text and they definitely were fearless. I'm sure that a whole bunch of actors, and rightfully so, after the first read through, " Be like, I'm not sure if I can do this". I will never forget the first read through where afterward everyone was dead silent. Like, there is a lot of messed up stuff in that, it's pretty messed up and we're going to lean into it because we kind of have to because of what's happening right now. And I know that a lot of people think, "Oh, art, it's for entertainment. It's, it's fine." It's like, yeah, but also art has to be truthful. And I felt like this was the production that could be very truthful. And by the end, we were going in and we were just like, "We hope people leave. We hope that they're offended that we're making comments," and be like, "This is not okay." And no one did actually, we never had anyone leave, which was surprising to me, considering like the F bomb was dropped every two seconds. But yeah, it's--and there were a lot of times as a director that I feel like I could have held on to my original idea for it, but it wouldn't be as good. It really is letting go and letting your actors and also your team come up with ideas. Like my, my set designer had such a cool idea of making the space into a very, very close setting where the actors were maybe maybe three feet away from the first row.[00:13:06]My set designer, Amber, she made it super colorful. Like the stage was covered in carpets and there were all different colors and she had tapestries that were different designs, all the walls. And it was just very--when you walked in--it felt like your living room, it was very home-y. It was definitely not what I had in mind. And what I had in mind was like rock concert. I don't mind if there's a pit or, you know, if we raise the stage a little bit, and she was like, "No, no, no, we're gonna make this feel kind of like what we did where it's like in your living room." And so that way you were unable to separate yourself from the action and be like, "Well, this is just a story." It's like, "No, you in it, people are able to look at you. They see if you're pulling out your phone."[00:13:57]Lindsey Dinneen: Ooh. Yeah.[00:13:59]Danielle Guy: So yeah, that was very interesting. And that was something I could have been like, "No, I want it to be like that." So glad I did it because it changed everything. And, yeah, it's just one of those things where you need to, to trust other people and their designs and their ideas and just be like, "Cool. If you believe in it, I believe in it."[00:14:18]Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. That's powerful. So how, how did audiences react? I mean, obviously it was a difficult thing that you were bringing forth and I love what you said about art needs to be truthful. I absolutely agree with you. but so yeah, I mean, what was, what was the audience reaction and how did you feel at the end? How did your cast feel at the end? I mean, that, that is a huge undertaking.[00:14:39]Danielle Guy: Yeah, it was mixed responses. So we actually did have a small protest, not at the production, but before on social media, where an individual who did not want to enter a conversation with us, a dialogue of us being like, "Well, this is how we're changing it. This is what we're doing to make sure that we're showing that, 'Hey, this is not funny about the Native Americans. The Native Americans aren't a joke. Who is the joke is Andrew Jackson in this.'" We would have loved to have that conversation, but they just weren't interested in hearing it, so we had a little bit of a protest, but also we anticipated that. And we also had, I had reached out to a colleague of mine from college who is a Cherokee. He lives in Colorado. And we had talked about it long before we were even in rehearsals and coming up with ideas of how to do this musical, but keep it respectful as well and really to get the correct message across.[00:15:44]And also we had someone who formerly worked at The Smithsonian of  Native Americans come and watch it in rehearsal, just so I can be like, "Hey, if you see anything, because we are doing our best, but I'm sure we've missed something, like, please let us know." I wrote an open letter to audience members about like, "Hey, is this a problematic play?Absolutely. It is. However, this is how we are addressing it and moving forward." So we had put that on social media. It was surprisingly published--we didn't know they were doing this--in the DC Metro Theater Report, which is on Facebook and in print. So that was really cool. We knew that audience members were kind of prepared, even if they didn't know the musical.[00:16:31] It's like, okay, you're walking into something that you're going to be offended by probably. And so some audience members really got the message and were really into it. And then, and we're like, yes, we see how you were able to show the narrative as truth of, of history and how awful Andrew Jackson is and how that mindset of basically, you know, white supremacy has padded come up again in the name of, nationalism and patriotism.[00:17:04]And then there were some audience members and I was, I always love talking to them where they're like, "Yes, we understand what you're doing, but we still don't think this musical should ever be done because it's just too offensive." And I, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to art. I don't think that it's ever black and white, your opinion and how you perceive art, is just how you perceive art.[00:17:31] And it's not a right or wrong thing. It's just your reaction. I say the same thing in my day job. I am a sommelier. When you taste wine, when you try wine, you like it, or you don't. I'm the one who is trained to find the notes and everything, but you know, what, if you're not a professional, your main thing is like, "Do I like it?" And that's how you can go with art too.  Do I like this? Yes? No? Cool. It doesn't have to be any deeper than that. If you want to go deeper--absolutely, I love having those conversations--but if someone comes in and absolutely hated it, you hated it. That's cool. It's not your thing.[00:18:12] Yeah, and actually to that point, I'm curious, I imagine you had some people that came in that did hate it because they were uncomfortable and they were, they were frustrated because this stuff is difficult to, to take in. And so did you have anybody who wanted to have a conversation about like, I hated this...[00:18:32] It was super cool. I loved that when someone was like, "I hated it." And I was like, "Cool, I'm not offended. I don't care, but can you tell me why." It's the why that interests me. And we had some really good conversations that came out of it. And one woman who was a little older, I sat down with her. She was related to someone in the cast. A nd she's like, "I just really didn't like it." I was like, "Well, could you explain to me why?" And her whole thing was because there were things that were not factual in the musical--and we can debate artistic license-- but I understand what you're saying. Where she's like, "Especially when you have someone who is as terrible as Andrew Jackson, you don't have to make stuff up to make him more terrible or more likable or what have you. It's like, she definitely wanted it to stick to actual history, and I totally get that. That's totally fine. But it's definitely something I had no power over. I couldn't change the script.[00:19:36]  Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I think that's one of the most powerful things that art can do is start conversations that you might not otherwise have unless you're confronted with something that you A) don't understand, B) don't appreciate, C), don't like. I mean, I think there's a lot of value in the conversations that art can bring because, you're right! I mean, there's--like you said earlier on some level, it's like, do you like it or don't you? But at the same time, I love that you can take that and then ask, well, why? And then you have an intelligent conversation about, you know, what you took from that. I love that.[00:20:13] Danielle Guy: Yeah, exactly. And also, and this is something that I talked to my, my cast a lot about--where it's like, people are going to dislike this show. Don't be offended, because that is their right. And that also sparked a conversation in the cast where, you know, we're in a time right now where everyone's offended by something, and then you're offended if someone's offended--it's just all a terrible circle. And I was like, "Guys, this is, we're talking about Andrew Jackson, we're talking about America. And one of the most American things we have is the, the right to express your opinion, that you have a voice-- freedom of speech. So it's like, let them have that freedom of speech because we're definitely exercising it with this. And if you want to be an example for other people, when someone looks at you and says, "I hated your show," just ask why and then say, "Thank you ," and move on.[00:21:10]Lindsey Dinneen: Yes. I love that. And actually I think that gives a lot of freedom because, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you're trying to appeal and this goes for even a quote, end quote "non-controversial" show, right? I mean, in the sense that you're going to have people that walk away and they're like, "That was stupid," or "That was bad," you know what I mean? Like, you're just going to have somebody who doesn't like it and, and having the freedom to say, "It's okay." You're going to have our fans who are grateful and like it, and then you're going to have your critics who are like, "Well, I didn't," and having that freedom as an artist to say, "Well, that's not a reflection on me. Honestly, it's the reflection on them in the sense of, back to your fundamental point, they liked it or they didn't, but it's not you. And I think that actually gives a lot of freedom. I love that perspective.[00:21:54] Danielle Guy: Thank you. I mean, also as artists, it can be difficult because your art is an extension of yourself, so it's hard to differentiate between that. But I think that a way for artists to also protect themselves, is by having that separation. Because, man, it's hard, especially with actors where, when I do workshops for auditions, I'm like, "You're going to get rejected. And you are going to get rejected again and again and again. And it's hard for you to not take that personally, because it is like you offering yourself. But if you want to say sane, you have to be able to look over it, not get over it, but look over it." Or it's like, well, it wasn't this time, but maybe the next. And yeah, just continue going. It's hard. It's a hard world.[00:22:52]Lindsey Dinneen: I've said in the past--to be an artist is to be brave. And I think, just inherently, when you put yourself out there as an artist or you create something--even if you don't identify as, "Oh, I'm an artist", but you created something--I mean, it's brave. It takes guts to put something out into the world and say, "Here you go." And we'll see.[00:23:13]Danielle Guy:  I will say like, one of the most terrifying moments of my life was when my mother went and saw the show.[00:23:18]Lindsey Dinneen: I can imagine.[00:23:19] Danielle Guy: She actually said it in a very good way where she is like, "I didn't like it, but I saw that it was well done," which is also a thing that I think people need to learn where it's just like, you can not like something, but it doesn't mean that it's trash. Honestly I love getting bad reviews. I just love hearing the other side of things, which maybe is like the most theatrical thing that you can do is because you always have to look at the other side of the coin with the character. But yeah, love, love it. I'm weird.[00:23:53]Lindsey Dinneen: No, I mean, I'm going to say that is awesome because I think firstly, it's very tough to read reviews where you're like, "What are you talking about?" So kudos to you.[00:24:02] Danielle Guy: You have to think about what you're going to expel your, your time and energy on. And move on with my life because my life is full of amazing people and I'm doing amazing things and that's all I really want to do with my life. So I'm not going to let a little blip, send me into a spiral.[00:24:20]Lindsey Dinneen: Good for you. Oh my goodness. To all the artists out there who are afraid of a bad review, just remember Danielle's advice. You can, you can look at it and say, "You know what? I will accept a different opinion." And then you just move on because you got more amazing things to do.[00:24:37] Danielle Guy: Exactly.[00:24:38] Lindsey Dinneen: I just have a couple of questions for you if that's okay. So how do you personally define art or what is art to you?[00:24:46] Danielle Guy: Art is expression of truth done a visual way. So where it is taking some form of reality and putting it in a way that can be physicalized, whether it be by, you know, painting or drawing or by moving, or by speaking--just a different way to look at it--that is different from what our normal reality is, which can be quite boring.[00:25:13] Lindsey Dinneen: And what do you think is the most important role of an artist?[00:25:17]Danielle Guy:  Once again, going into the true thing, just tell the truth. I hear this all the time with actors where they're, where they say, "Oh, acting is my escape." And that's, those typically are the actors that are kind of hard to work with because it's not an escape. A lot of these characters are created out of some sense of reality. And I feel like we do them a dishonor by taking someone's potential life or potential situation and putting it on as a mask to escape the reality in our own. So it's just, you know, doing honor to the text doing honor to what has come before us.[00:25:56] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love that. That's that's a great. Okay. And my last one--I'll kind of explain a little bit, but it's just totally in your personal opinion-- do you feel that art should be inclusive or exclusive? So exclusive kind of being, so an artist puts something out there and there's not necessarily a lot of explanation behind it--what inspired it? Maybe there's not a title to it. Maybe, you know, you just don't have a lot of context, versus inclusive being, you know, the artist describes the inspiration behind it or what they were feeling when they created it or just to provide a little bit more context of what you as the viewer or the observer might gain, I guess, or experience.[00:26:49] Danielle Guy: Oh man. My avant garde is showing so hard. I would say exclusive. I'm just one of those people where it's like, just let the art talk. It takes away the magic when you have to go in and explain everything. It's like when you have to explain a joke, that is, like, not funny anymore.  There's this, video on YouTube that came out several years ago--it was all performance art-- where a woman was sitting at a table and you would go up and sit on the other side of the table and she would just look at you for an entire minute. No words at all. She would look; you give you direct eye contact for an entire minute. There was no explanation why. And, she didn't even advertise this as much where it, she had like a handler who's like, "We're doing this thing, please form a line if you'd like to be involved." And apparently the feedback from people--after their minute was done, it had moved them so much, and it meant different things to everyone. And I feel like to explain that moment would have--or her reason behind it-- what have you, what her goal was? I feel like it would have tarnished that very visceral and primal response that people had.  So yeah,  let it be exclusive. Don't let people always know because sometimes artists don't even have an answer. "I don't know why I did this. It just looked cool." I think, yeah, my avant-garde came out real hard there.[00:28:29] Lindsey Dinneen: It did. But I love asking people that question because we get very different responses, and like art, it's subjective. And so I love it and I love the reasoning behind it . So, do you have, I know this is kind of an odd time, but do you have any upcoming projects or anything that you're working towards?[00:28:46] Danielle Guy: Yeah, so, my main production that's coming up, is my wedding in October. So I'm taking a little bit of a break, and then this time next year, I will be directing "Five Women Wearing the Same Dress," which is a wonderful play. I love it so much. And it's female centered and about life and how we, we think we know our dearest friends, but then, you know, maybe you're a bridesmaid in their wedding and you learned that, you know, nothing about them at all. So yeah, that's my next project that I have on the books.[00:29:23]Lindsey Dinneen: Awesome. And if anyone wants to get in touch with you or follow your artistic journey, do you have any kind of outlet for that? Or even if they wanted to come see that, is there, you know, a way that they can kind of keep in touch?[00:29:37] Danielle Guy: Yeah. So usually I do announce things on my website, which is danielledirects.com. And that's also a link where if you want to get in touch with me, or ask any questions, there will be, like a little conversation box that will send an email to me.[00:29:56]Lindsey Dinneen: Perfect. Awesome. How fancy.[00:29:58] Danielle Guy: I know.[00:29:59]Lindsey Dinneen: Well, thank you so very much for just being a present here and thank you for being a guest; I really appreciate it. And I'm a firm believer that when you put art out into the world, it makes it a better place. And so I just want to thank you personally for, you know, continuing your passion ever since you were eight. But thank you for continuing to produce art and be brave as an artist. And, I just, I know the world is a better place because of it.  [00:30:30] Danielle Guy: Thank you, and thank you so much for asking me to be a part of this. This was so great. Thank you for all that you're doing, especially during crazy times like this and all your passion and art.  I have to brag about you. I've been a fan of you since I was five, so...[00:30:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Awww! Aww, you're sweet. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you again and thank you to everyone who has listened to this, and I hope you feel as inspired as I do. And I just wanted to say that we really appreciate your shares and comments. And we will catch you next time.[00:31:10] If you have a story to share with us, we would love that so much. And I hope your day has been Artfully Told.[00:31:20] Hey there, Artfully Told listeners. I wanted to share a really amazing resource with you that I think you will find invaluable. This website is called Artists' Edge. The mission of Artists' Edge is to raise the level of business intelligence, life skills, and emotional intelligence for people who are committed to expressing their passions, creativity, and unique genius through their careers, helping them reach higher levels of success with ease. Artists' Edge is the education arm of Deborah Russell Coaching, and she is an awesome person who uses all of her business, background and skills to really assist artists become who they want to be. She has a bunch of different courses that you can go through as well as personalized coaching. If you are a wannabe artist that wants to turn their passion into a career, or is an already established artists that wants to take their career to the next level, she is the person to talk to you about this. So please follow the link in my comments and show notes.

Your organization is awesome.But sometimes you want to be even awesomer!The Official Do Good Better Podcast is here to help!Each episode features (fundraising expert, speaker, event creator and author) Patrick Kirby interviewing leaders and champions of small and medium nonprofits share their successes, their impact, and what makes them a unicorn in a field of horses. Patrick will also answer a fundraising question, and most importantly, showcase how you can support these small nonprofits doing great big things!Uh-Oh. It’s time to call Human Resources.Joining Patrick today is Marissa Willits, founder of Next Level Consulting. Marissa is a certified Human Resources Professional. Marissa began her career in the construction industry and then eventually finished in banking, before starting Next Level Consulting. Her favorite parts of HR include Policy and Procedure development for On-boarding, Off-boarding, Benefits Administration, Training & Development, Worker's Compensation and Unemployment.She loves working with small organizations who have fewer than 50 employees. "Its much easier to attach to the mission and vision of the organization when it's smaller. You also see it play out at a very visceral level which is incredible." Marissa has said of her experience working with a small non-profit in Fargo, ND.Contact Marissa: nextlevelnd701@gmail.comNext Level Consulting Website: www.nextlevelnd.comSchedule a Call with Marissa: http://nextlevelnd.com/contact/#nextlevelconsulting #nextlevelconsultingnd #marissawillits #nextlevelndLove the show? Then you’ll love Patrick’s book! Fundraise Awesomer! A Practical Guide to Staying Sane While Doing Good Available through Amazon Here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1072070359Email Patrick: Patrick@dogoodbetterconsulting.com Follow On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoodBetterPodcast/Follow On Twitter: @consulting_do Follow On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fundraisingdad/#fundraising #fundraiser #charity #nonprofit #donate #dogood #dogoodBETTER #fargo #fundraisingdadDonorDock.com: The #1 Nonprofit CRM Tool. Use the referral code “Do Good Better” to get your first month free!Small Town Labs: What impression if your hometown making to prospective families or businesses? Small Town Labs gives you “curb appeal”: https://leefromfargo.com/small-town-labs/

Mike Szczesniak is the world’s leading high performance coach for Millennial Executives and Entrepreneurs. Having struggled with anxiety and panic attacks in his early 20s, Mike realized he had a very skewed view of what it really meant to be 'productive'. This set him on a path of personal growth, and ultimately led to his obsession with productivity and high performance. Through his content, speaking, and coaching, Mike helps his clients show up more powerfully and get to the next level. Period.On this episode:Learn why Mike had to climb a 50 foot telephone pole to realize he had a skewed, unhealthy obsession with money.Hear Mike's definition of productivity.Discover how to determine what SHOULD get done.Tweetable Quotes:I realized doing things didn't matter if the things I was doing didn't matter.A lot of people are being vulnerable for the sake of being vulnerable instead of being of service.We need to fill out calendar with things that are important.Mike Szczesniak:facebook.com/mikeszczesniakinstagram.com/mikeszczesniakmikeszczesniak.comSchedule a free 15 minute call with Hans here:https://calendly.com/h-struzyna/15minFor more information about Hans Struzyna and Another Way to Play, visit:anotherwaytoplaypodcast.com See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Our guest on the show today is Alina Trigub, the founder of SAMO Financial, who has a passion for advocating the benefits of passive investing and empowering people to build wealth for themselves and their families. In addition to providing educational content on various platforms, she has helped her investors to participate in the offering of over 1,200 apartment units, a 10-million-dollar storage fund and a five-million-dollar mobile home park fund. In this episode, Alina talks to listeners about her journey getting into multifamily investing, how she educated herself before jumping in, and how she landed her first passive and active syndication deals. Being an educator herself, she shares about the value of the BiggerPockets educational community for investors and the books that have helped to shape her understanding of the industry. She discusses her process of vetting potential partners – which she compares to choosing a spouse – and gives some convincing reasons why multifamily syndication offers more solid investment opportunities than the stock market. Tuning in today, listeners will also hear Alina’s views on healthy diversification, mitigating risk, and the CRM tool she cannot do without! Key Points From This Episode:Alina’s educational background in accounting and transitioning to the IT space. When she decided to look into multi-family investing and realized the tax benefits. How Alina went about educated herself before getting actively involved. Breaking into her first syndication deal and having to trust someone she has never met. Learn about BiggerPockets and how the educational tool can be utilized. How Alina got her first syndication deal as an active sponsor. Find out how she approached vetting potential partners and finding the right one. Why Alina believes multi-family syndications to offer better investments than the stock market.Thoughts on whether it is necessary to be an expert in all the asset classes to invest safely. Advice about the best ways to diversify and mitigate the risks. Alina’s strategy for tailoring their investment approach with each new investor. The one tool she cannot function without and the biggest mistake she made in the early days. For today’s show notes, including audio and links to all the resources mentioned, visit www.limitless-estates.com/podcasts. For today’s video feed, visit our YouTube channel.To get access to our free Passive Investors Guide and monthly newsletters sign up at www.limitless-estates.comSchedule a free call with Kyle or Lalita hereTo find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal email info@limitless-estates.com Local to Southern California? Attend our monthly meetup focused on Out of State Apartment investing. View our schedule at https://www.limitless-estates.com/events/meetupsJoin our Facebook Group - Passive Income through Multifamily Real EstateHave a question you would like answered on the show? Email us at info@limitless-estates.com.

Candace Pilgrim is the managing partner of Apollo Capital and the co-founder of Multifamily Women’s Mastermind. Prior to founding Apollo Capital with her husband Casey, Candace built a successful electronics wholesale business with over 7M in annual revenue. She holds bachelors’ degrees in both Biochemistry and Microbiology. Candace’s analytical skills and systemized approach allow her to excel in underwriting, due diligence, and asset management. Prior to discovering her passion for multifamily, Candace rehabbed and self-managed a small portfolio of single family rental homes in Alabama and Mississippi. For the past 2 years, she has been focused on building a multifamily portfolio to create a passive income stream that will transcend generations. Candace is currently invested in over 600 apartment units in the Southeastern United States and has built a strong network of multifamily partners and advisors to aid in future acquisitions.Connect with Candacewww.apollocapitalinvestments.comcandace@apollocapitalinvestments.comFor today’s show notes, including audio and links to all the resources mentioned, visit www.limitless-estates.com/podcasts. For today’s video feed, visit our YouTube channel.To get access to our free Passive Investors Guide and monthly newsletters sign up at www.limitless-estates.comSchedule a free call with Kyle or Lalita herTo find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal email info@limitless-estates.com Local to Southern California? Attend our monthly meetup focused on Out of State Apartment investing. View our schedule at https://www.limitless-estates.com/events/meetupsJoin our Facebook Group - Passive Income through Multifamily Real EstateHave a question you would like answered on the show? Email us at info@limitless-estates.com.

Kathy Fettke is the CEO and Co-Founder of Real Wealth Network, and the host of The Real Wealth Show. She is an active real estate investor, licensed Realtor, certified coach, and former mortgage broker.Kathy specializes in teaching people how to build multi-million dollar real estate portfolios through creative finance and planning. She is passionate about researching and then sharing the most important information about real estate, market cycles and the economy. Author of the #1 best seller, Retire Rich with Rentals, Kathy is a frequent guest expert on such media as CNN, CNBC, Fox News, NPR and CBS MarketWatch.Connect with Kathywww.realwealthnetwork.comFor today’s show notes, including audio and links to all the resources mentioned, visit www.limitless-estates.com/podcasts. For today’s video feed, visit our YouTube channel.To get access to our free Passive Investors Guide and monthly newsletters sign up at www.limitless-estates.comSchedule a free call with Kyle or Lalita hereTo find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal email info@limitless-estates.com Local to Southern California? Attend our monthly meetup focused on Out of State Apartment investing. View our schedule at https://www.limitless-estates.com/events/meetupsJoin our Facebook Group - Passive Income through Multifamily Real EstateHave a question you would like answered on the show? Email us at info@limitless-estates.com.

Anna Myers serves as Vice President at Grocapitus, a commercial real estate investment company in the San Francisco Bay Area. Anna is a third-generation commercial real estate entrepreneur who applies her 25+ years of experience in technology and business to finding, analyzing, acquiring and asset managing commercial properties in key markets across the U.S. Together with her business partner Neal Bawa, they approach real estate through a data science lens to create compelling profits for 1000+ investors.As the lead underwriter for the company, Anna teaches deal analysis for MultifamilyU in quarterly Boot Camps. MultifamilyU is an apartment investing education company owned by the principal Neal Bawa. Also via MultifamilyU, Anna hosts weekly webinar events featuring top speakers in real estate. Anna is regularly interviewed on podcasts in the industry, with over 25 podcast appearances so far in 2019. Anna Myers also co-hosts two monthly Real Estate Investor Meetups in the Bay Area with over 1000 members.Related to Syndication with Grocapitus, Anna and Neal have successfully completed Equity Raises of 25 Million dollars for Multifamily Acquisitions in the last 12 months, resulting in over 1300 units purchased. They are on track to close another 1300 in the next 12 months. As the asset manager for the Grocapitus portfolio, Anna again brings the data driven approach to track and insert optimizations to the properties to help drive property performance and investor returns.Connect with Annawww.multifamilyu.comwww.grocapitus.comFor today’s show notes, including audio and links to all the resources mentioned, visit www.limitless-estates.com/podcasts. For today’s video feed, visit our YouTube channel.To get access to our free Passive Investors Guide and monthly newsletters sign up at www.limitless-estates.comSchedule a free call with Kyle or Lalita hereTo find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal email info@limitless-estates.com Local to Southern California? Attend our monthly meetup focused on Out of State Apartment investing. View our schedule at https://www.limitless-estates.com/events/meetupsJoin our Facebook Group - Passive Income through Multifamily Real EstateHave a question you would like answered on the show? Email us at info@limitless-estates.com.

Kavitha Baratakke, principal at Cherry Street Investments is an Austin- based Accredited Real Estate investor and a full-time MF sponsor with over 10 years of investing experience in single family and multi-family real estate.She has successfully acquired, rehabbed, managed and operated several single-family and multi-family investment properties in the Central Texas area. She is currently invested in over 1800 doors/units in San Antonio, DFW, Atlanta, and Phoenix MSA as a Limited Partner and over 450 doors as a General Partner and Key principal.She currently sponsors apartment investments with boots-on-the-ground partnerships in various markets throughout the country including but not limited to DFW, San Antonio, Phoenix, Atlanta and others. Besides being an active investor herself, she is passionate about educating investors on passive investments and helping them on their journey toward financial freedom. She aims to educate her investors on Multifamily, Opportunity zones, and more through her “Purely Passive Investor Group” Facebook group.When she’s not working on real estate, she’s spending time with her teenage daughter and two puppies – Milo and Oreo, dancing salsa and bachata, cooking up her favorite dish, jumping off a cliff, traveling the world exploring new cultures, countries and food, riding her bike or hiking her favorite trails in the Texas Hill Country.Connect with Kavithakavitha@cherrystreetinvestments.comwww.cherrystreetinvestments.comFacebook – Purely Passive Investor GroupFor today’s show notes, including audio and links to all the resources mentioned, visit www.limitless-estates.com/podcasts. For today’s video feed, visit our YouTube channel.To get access to our free Passive Investors Guide and monthly newsletters sign up at www.limitless-estates.comSchedule a free call with Kyle or Lalita hereTo find out more about partnering or investing in a multifamily deal email info@limitless-estates.com Local to Southern California? Attend our monthly meetup focused on Out of State Apartment investing. View our schedule at https://www.limitless-estates.com/events/meetupsJoin our Facebook Group - Passive Income through Multifamily Real EstateHave a question you would like answered on the show? Email us at info@limitless-estates.com.