Podcasts about marketing without social media

You already know what you offer is worth it. So why does it feel so hard to actually charge that number?In Part 2 of this conversation, Jan sits back down with Andee Hart — sales strategist, wholesale business expert, and host of She Sells Differently — to tackle one of the most emotionally loaded topics in entrepreneurship: pricing. Not the spreadsheet version. The version where guilt, fear of rejection, people-pleasing, and a deep desire to serve all collide at the checkout page.Whether you sell physical products, coaching, courses, or creative services, this episode will challenge the way you've been calculating your prices — and give you a practical framework for backing into what you should actually be charging.In this episode you'll learn:Why women entrepreneurs consistently underprice themselves — and the caregiving instinct that's often behind itHow to shift from cost-based pricing to ROI-based pricing (and why it might raise your price by $1,000 or more)Why knowing your ideal client's transformation is the foundation of every pricing decisionThe real reason discounting hurts your business — and what to offer instead in a slower economyHow your brand visuals directly affect what price people are willing to pay (the $45 hat story is one you'll remember)What an ROI calculator is, why Andee uses one on her sales page, and how she built it using AI tools without codingHow people-pleasing and the need to control client outcomes can silently keep you underchargingAndee's top pricing tip: why your first price doesn't have to be your forever priceEpisode Highlights[00:00] Jan introduces Part 2 and frames the topic: pricing, guilt, and the fear of thinking too much of yourself[02:14] Why women struggle with pricing more than men — and Proverbs 31 as a biblical foundation for charging what you're worth[04:04] The pricing framework Andee uses with product makers: start with cost of goods, then layer in labor, time, and — most importantly — the buyer's ROI[05:55] Jan gets real: she knows she's underpricing her web design and branding services, and shares the mindset shift she's working through right now[07:10] The critical mistake entrepreneurs make in sales copy — leading with features instead of the transformation — and how to fix it[08:00] Andee's wholesale course example: how she built an ROI calculator into her sales page and why it became a game-changer for conversions[09:40] Why one client avatar isn't enough — and how going deeper into who you serve at each stage of the customer journey changes how you price[11:06] The $45 hat story: how one perfectly branded coffee shop in Franklin, Tennessee made Jan open her wallet immediately — and what that means for your pricing power[13:20] Product makers and packaging: why homemade-looking branding keeps wholesalers off retail shelves, and how branding does the selling when you're not in the room[14:13] The scary investment conversation — why stepping into a big God-given vision requires being brave enough to pay people who can get you there[15:38] Cost vs. worth: the mindset difference between what something costs you and what it's worth to your buyer[17:20] The people-pleasing pricing trap: Andee gets personal about wanting to control client outcomes — and how that tendency quietly caps her prices[18:07] Jan's honest confession about spending thousands on courses she didn't finish — and why the ROI is always on the student, not the creator[20:40] How Andee built her ROI calculator using Canva AI first, then vibe coding tools like Lovable and Base44 — no coding required[23:07] Jan's lightbulb moment: using an ROI calculator as a client-facing tool inside web design projects[25:16] Andee's best pricing tip: don't be afraid to pivot. Survey your clients, raise your rates, and stop treating your launch price as permanent[25:55] Instead of discounting in a tough economy — add payment plans. Don't devalue your work; just make it more accessible[26:51] "You don't want to be Dollar Tree." Why discounting trains your audience to expect discount pricing foreverKey Takeaway"When I am not charging what I'm worth, I am not able to use the gifts that the Lord has given me — because let's be real, it's all a gift from Him — to go do other things that make a kingdom impact." — Andee HartResources Mentioned

If you've ever undercharged a client because you needed the money, over-delivered on an offer out of guilt, or held back a product launch because it wasn't quite perfect yet — this episode is for you.In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Jan sits down with her friend and peer mastermind member Andee Hart — sales strategist, mentor, podcast host, and the woman behind She Sells Differently. What started as a candid chat between two Christian women entrepreneurs turned into one of those conversations you have to stop and take notes on.They dig into the scarcity mindset — not as a buzzword, but as something both of them are actively working through in their businesses right now. You'll hear Jan and Andee get honest about the fears that keep women playing small, what the Bible actually says about money and calling, and what it looks like to ruthlessly focus on the work you were made to do instead of the work you can just do.In this episode you'll learn:Why accepting every client at every price point is actually a scarcity decision — and what it costs you long-termHow over-delivering and underpricing can rob your clients of real investment and ownership in their growthWhat Lydia (yes, the Lydia from Acts) can teach us about building wealth as a Christian womanThe 10X vs. 2X framework from 10X Is Easier Than 2X by Dan Sullivan & Benjamin Hardy — and why doing less is often the path to growing moreHow perfectionism and distraction are two of the enemy's biggest tools against women entrepreneursWhy being in a room with people further along than you is one of the highest-leverage things you can do for your businessEpisode Highlights[00:00] Jan introduces Andee Hart and the concept of peer mastermind relationships among Christian women entrepreneurs[02:36] The conversation begins — Andee opens with a question about scarcity mindset and Jan's real experience of taking every low-ticket client just to survive[04:08] Why doing "everything you can do" isn't the same as doing what you should do — and the difference between capacity and calling[09:51] How scarcity mindset shows up specifically for Christian women: underpricing, over-giving, and the fear of charging what you're worth[10:29] Jan gets personal — losing both parents in four years and how grief clarified her sense of calling and stopped her from playing small[11:55] The theological case for not playing small: when we hide our gifts, we rob others of what God intended to serve them through us[13:07] Money, ministry, and the women who funded Jesus' work — a biblical reframe for Christian entrepreneurs who feel guilty about profit[14:13] Lydia, purple dye, and what would have happened if she'd diminished her gifts[16:24] The difference between showing up with excellence and over-delivering — and how to sit with the Lord before you build your offers[19:36] The overthinking loop, the enemy's strategy, and how perfectionism causes inaction for recovering perfectionists (relatable!)[22:04] Jan shares her own current business evolution — letting go of steady retainer income to trust God with the 20% she's truly called to[23:11] Andee recommends 10X Is Easier Than 2X and explains the core idea: ruthlessly eliminate the 80% to do the 20% that actually scales your business[27:32] Being in the room with women further along — why playing up raises your game (the tennis analogy is good)[30:19] Teaser for Part 2: next week, Andee and Jan go deep on pricing — don't miss itKey Takeaway"When we make little of the gifts that God has given us, we rob others of getting to experience a beautiful gift — a way the Lord has designed to serve them through us. You can still charge someone and serve them well."Resources Mentioned

Don't rely on solely social media by nurturing and building relationships outside of posting on instagram, tiktok, facebook etc. Today we cover:- ways to nuture a relationship- Ways to start building your email list- automation to help you nurture the relationship without using AI - a look into the email software I use and ways to start growing your email list thru your websiteREADY TO MARKET YOUR BUSINESS ETHICALLY WITHOUT POSTING EVERY DAY ON INSTAGRAM?Listen to the episode if you need more support please reach out belowCONNECT WITH CELESTEWebsite: www.celestethestylist.com Instagram @celestethestylistBook a 1-1 coaching call with Celeste * Support this podcast by leaving a quick review and start making more sales without the need of social media.

If your visibility strategy feels heavier than it used to… you're not imagining it. There is more content than ever, more noise, and more pressure to keep up. And yet, for many business owners, the results are not matching the effort. In Episode 485 of Amplify Your Success Podcast, I sit down with Michelle Pippin to talk about what's actually working right now and why so many traditional marketing approaches are quietly becoming effective again. Michelle brings a refreshing perspective on what happens when you step away from over-reliance on digital platforms and return to relationship-driven visibility. This is not about abandoning modern tools. It's about understanding where trust is built and how real connection translates into clients, referrals, and long-term opportunities. We talk about what it looks like to build momentum through conversations, partnerships, and proximity instead of constantly chasing attention. Michelle also shares how simplifying your approach can create more consistency and better results without requiring more output. If you've been feeling stretched thin trying to keep up with content, or questioning whether social media is the only path to growth, this conversation will give you a different way to think about visibility and where your next opportunities may come from.   Key Takeaways: [00:00] Why more content is not always the answer and how oversaturation is impacting visibility. [03:12] What "analog marketing" really means and why it is becoming relevant again. [06:45] The shift from algorithm-driven visibility to relationship-driven opportunities. [10:18] Why trust is built faster through direct connection than through content alone. [14:02] How referrals, partnerships, and conversations create more sustainable growth. [18:27] The hidden cost of relying too heavily on social media for client acquisition. [22:10] How to identify which visibility strategies actually align with your strengths. [26:54] What it looks like to simplify your marketing without losing momentum. [30:33] Why proximity to the right people often leads to the best opportunities. [35:08] How to create a visibility approach that feels more natural and effective.   About The Guest:  Michelle Pippin — a mother of three and wife of one — is the founder of Women Who WOW and creator of WOWx, the Visibility Gym for serious women entrepreneurs. Famous for her "NO EXCUSES… JUST RESULTS" approach, Michelle has built a reputation for helping experts create consistent, bankable visibility without performing for algorithms. Starting her business with just $50, she bootstrapped her way past seven figures while raising three kids and building a national movement now spanning every state and eight countries. Her strategies have been featured on Good Morning America, ABC News Now, Entrepreneur, Forbes, MoneyInc, and in her ongoing column syndicated nationally through BizJournals.com. Relentless, practical, profit-driven — and unapologetically old-school — Michelle teaches entrepreneurs to create visibility that compounds into clients, credibility, and cash. Connect With The Guest: Connect with Michelle on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bmpippin Follow Michelle on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellepippin/ Check out Michelle's Website For Some Great Resources - bmichellepippin.com   Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Get Michelle's Old School Playbook: https://www.bmichellepippin.com/oldschool/ FREE GUIDE & SCORECARD: Feel like the best-kept secret? My proven Un-Ignorable Expert Framework is your step-by-step guide to turning your expertise into consistent, high-value client attraction by borrowing authority-rich visibility streams.

I finally did something I've been wanting to do for years: I burned it all to the ground and I deleted everything. In this episode, I'm sharing what finally led me to delete not only my personal social media accounts but all of my business ones as well. I'm flying solo now without the use of social media in my business, and honestly, it feels better than ever.In this conversation, I'm opening up about:My Breaking Point: How I noticed my brain was depleted, my energy was low, and my creative capacity was shrinking because of the "swirling vortex" of my phone.The Addiction: Why willpower wasn't enough to stop a habit that saw my screen time hitting 8 to 10 hours a day.How I Untangled My Business: The steps I took to disconnect Facebook logins from apps like Canva, request my data, and manually archive my Instagram highlights.Marketing Without the Apps: Why I'm focusing on long-form content and SEO, especially since 85% of my students already find me through search.The Mental Health Shift: How that "heaviness" in my chest has disappeared since I stopped performing my life for an audience.Reclaiming My Time: How I'm spending my days now - at the library, watching more birds, reading more books, and being truly present in the moment.I used to think I couldn't live without these platforms, but I've realized that I don't need social media, it needs me. I'm choosing to look away from my phone and be present in my own life again.Send us Fan MailFind more resources over at SarahSteckler.comGet Organized in your business. Watch the free Get Organized with Google Workspace training here.Learn how to publish your own planner this year. Sign up for Planner Publishing 101.Want something more tangible? Sign up for The Mindful Moment, my monthly mini physical newspaper sent via snail mail. 

What does it actually look like to grow a business without social media? For years, entrepreneurs have been told that visibility online requires constant posting, endless content creation, and staying active on platforms like Instagram to make money online. But what if that assumption is wrong?In this episode, I'm sharing why I've decided to step back from Instagram and focus on growing my online business without relying on social media platforms at all. This decision wasn't made lightly. Like many entrepreneurs, I spent years believing that social media was a required part of building an audience and growing a company online. But over time, I realized that constantly feeding the algorithm wasn't helping me build the kind of business — or life — that I actually wanted.Instead, I began focusing on strategies that allow my online business to grow without the pressure of being online every single day. That shift has led me to rethink what marketing without social media can look like, and how podcasting, evergreen content, and strategic visibility can become powerful tools for entrepreneurs who want a different way to grow.In this episode, I'm sharing the real story behind my decision to leave Instagram, what changed in my business when I stopped relying on social media for growth, and how I've been able to continue growing a business without social media using podcasting as the core marketing engine.You'll hear why podcasting has become one of the most effective podcast marketing strategies I've used to build an audience and generate evergreen sales, and why this approach is helping me grow my online business without the constant pressure of staying visible on social platforms.If you've ever wondered whether it's possible to build a successful online business without social media, this episode will give you a new perspective on what modern podcast marketing and evergreen strategies can make possible.If you want to learn how podcasting can help you grow a business without social media, you can learn more about my Podcast Growth Strategy here: janditchfield.co/growReady to turn your podcast into a real business asset? If you already have a podcast that isn't making sales — or you're thinking about starting one and want to do it right from day one — I'm hosting a FREE, live training that will show you exactly how to build a podcast that actually supports your revenue. Inside the Profitable Podcast Kickstarter, I'll walk you through how to: • connect your podcast to a real offer • stop creating content that goes nowhere • turn listeners into clients — without living on social media

In this week's pep talk, I am sharing why we are bringing back a three-day challenge for our spring launch, what makes a challenge actually work right now, and how to design one that creates real momentum instead of more noise. In today's episode, I share:03:58 – Why challenges are making a comeback and what people actually need in this season06:00 – The shift from “watch and learn” to “move and implement”08:01 – What most challenges get wrong and how to design one that delivers real wins10:59 – How to create a sign-up incentive that drives commitment, not just clicks12:26 – Why timeliness and seasonality matter more than evergreen right now14:26 – Adding fun, accountability, and community without creating chaos16:45 – The intentional decision to make this challenge paid and why commitment changes everything20:55 – Teaching micro partnerships as a sustainable alternative to social media25:22 – Day one: the reset, stepping away from social, and auditing what's actually working28:26 – Day two: mapping visibility, nurture, and conversion into a clear strategy29:11 – Day three: implementation, execution, and building momentum you can actually sustain 

It's nearly impossible to think of having a business and not thing you have to start marketing on social media. It's no secret that social media can help you business but what made me make the switch back in 2019..This is the introduction podcast to my marketing without social media series. Yes! I will be sharing what tools im using and mindset reframes but before that I wanted to share:-What social media addiction looked like for me- the moment that changed everything- the 60 day post everyday challenge that confirmed posting more on social aka instagram is not the answer- a intro into my understanding of capitalism and anti capitalism (just my experience really diving deep into research) Before you ignore this i've had 13 organic publications. They are not paid and not posting every day on social media /instagram.I share what kind of results I got recently while on my 4 day vacation/road trip without posting on my bridal hairstyling instagram page.Hope this real life experiences help you see we can do things differently and thank you for being part of the community.I want to invite you if you are ready to do marketing without social media to my upcoming class.My class on email marketing for hairstylists and beauty entrepreneurs will be on 2/23/26 via zoom. If you are ready to GROW your business online presence with email marketing click here

In this episode of the 6-Figure Secrets Podcast, Allison Hardy sits down with Andria Singletary, a Marketing Without Social Media Coach for experienced mom entrepreneurs.Andria shares how her definition of success has shifted over time—and why ditching daily posting in favor of long-form content was the game-changer her business (and life) needed. She opens up about moving from burnout to balance, the power of podcasting, and how business owners can build marketing systems that actually support their real lives.This is a behind-the-scenes look at what it really takes to build a sustainable, scalable business—without being glued to your phone.TAKEAWAYS:Success evolves! And for many moms in business, it's about building something that supports life, not the other way around.Long-form content like podcasts, blogs, and YouTube can create lasting visibility and connection without relying on the short shelf life of social media.Strategic calls to action within podcast episodes (not just at the end) can turn casual listeners into warm leads and clients.Social media may feel immediate, but long-form content builds deeper trust and allows creators to fully express their voice.Marketing strategies should reflect the reality of life—especially for moms navigating unpredictable schedules, limited capacity, and a desire for presence at home.RESOURCES:Check out the blog post that accompanies this episode for additional resourcesListen to Andria's podcast, Marketing Without Socials for Moms Turn months of overwhelm into one day of DONE. I've got 3 spots left for my Beta Email Funnel VIP Day — you'll get a full nurture + pitch sequence done in one day. Grab your spot here.Take the Annual Audience Survey! For every survey completed, Allison will be donating $5 to Eveytown for Gun Safety.CONNECT WITH ALLISON: Follow Allison on Instagram DID YOU HAVE AN 'AH-HA MOMENT' WHILE LISTENING TO THIS EPISODE?If you found value and are ready to take action from listening to this episode, head to Apple Podcasts and help us reach new audiences by giving the podcast a rating and a review. This helps us to reach more online coaches who are creating a thriving 6-figure business. Music courtesy of www.bensound.com

Hey Winner, Are you tired of feeling like your business success depends on chasing trends, dancing for the algorithm, or being constantly “on”? If you're burned out by social media? OR just wondering if there's a better way? This episode is your wake-up call. In Episode 1 of Your Anti-Social Advantage, we're breaking down the exhaustion of traditional online marketing and introducing a fresh, values-aligned approach to growing your business without the overwhelm. It's simple. It's sustainable. And, yes, it honors your faith and your family.

Hey there, lovely listeners! Today, I kicked off the first part of a super insightful two-part series based on one of my most popular webinars, "Beyond the Scroll: Marketing Without Social Media." We're diving into why so many entrepreneurs feel overwhelmed by social media and how significant changes in 2025 have made it even more challenging. My focus today is on three key pillars of marketing: email marketing, SEO and evergreen content, and collaborations. I shared actionable insights on nurturing genuine connections through emails, leveraging the power of SEO to keep your content working for you, and exploring collaborations for greater reach. These strategies offer a holistic approach to marketing that feels more sustainable and aligned with our values. I'm really excited for you to try these out and can't wait to continue this journey next week! --> Webinar: Beyond the Scroll: Marketing Without Social Media   ### Key Takeaways 1. Build your email list—it's your most valuable marketing asset. 2. Leverage SEO to boost long-term visibility and relevance. 3. Collaborations expand reach and introduce your brand to new audiences. 4. Evergreen content ensures you're always findable online. 5. Nurture relationships to create genuine, effective marketing.    

You don't have to choose between “never social media” and “always chasing the algorithm.” But if you're going to claim independence from platforms, you'll need more than occasional rants and coffee chats. You need a clear vision of how you actually work, and the distinct value you bring when you stop playing by the platform's rules. This week, Mia is joined by Lillie Brown, Campaign Del Mar's Community Manager and a seasoned sexologist and marketing strategist, to unpack the art of high-ROI, human-first marketing that thrives outside of social media dependency. Together, Mia and Lilllie get brutally honest about the creative death of the internet, the constant threat of cancel culture, and the need to market in ways that feel real. From marketing fierce sexual wellness content (yes, “vulva” gets banned) to hosting impromptu in-person meetups across Australia, this episode is packed with spicy takes and tangible strategy. If you've ever felt like algorithms are erasing your humanity, or that your content is invisible within hours, this one's for you.

Send us a textSocial media: it's noisy, time-consuming, and often leaves you wondering if the return is worth the energy. But can you truly market your business without it?In this episode of Marketing Espresso, I'm unpacking the reality of growing a business beyond the scroll. I'll walk you through the strategic role social media can play (when it makes sense), the types of businesses that thrive without it, and how to develop a balanced, omnichannel marketing strategy that doesn't rely on being constantly online.This one's for the business owners who feel burnt out by social or just want to know if there's another way - because yes, there is.Key Topics Covered:Can a business grow without using social media at all?Real-life examples of 7-figure businesses that thrive without itWhy social media is just one channel, not the only oneHow to evaluate whether it makes sense for your businessStrategic ways to maintain a presence without letting it take overThe role of social media in SEO, brand personality, and trustHow to develop a smarter, lighter marketing approachOne Key Takeaway: You can build a highly successful, profitable business without being glued to social media. It's about clarity, strategy, and choosing the right channels that align with your goals.DOWNLOAD MY CONTENT PLANNER - https://becchappell.com.au/content-planner/Instagram @bec_chappellLinkedIn – Bec Chappell If you're ready to work together, I'm ready to work with you and your team.How to work with me:1. Marketing foundations and strategy consultation 2. Marketing Coaching/ Whispering for you a marketing leader or your team who you want to develop into marketing leaders3. Book me as a speaker or advisor for your organisation4. Get me on your podcastThis podcast has been produced and edited by Snappystreet Creative

When people say relationships are the key to business, it's usually code for “go network more.” But this episode is the story of what it looks like when relationships are the business model — before social media, before funnels, and before most people reading this could even drive.This is my untold scrappy startup story built on trust, reputation, and the kind of generosity that opens doors you didn't even know existed.WHAT'S INSIDE THIS EPISODE:Why my most “successful” marketing efforts barely moved the needleThe “unicorn” opportunity that came from a decades-long relationship (and how to be ready when your version of it arrives)What I learned about marketing before I knew what marketing even wasThe growth strategy that was my rocket fuel (that is WAY underutilized by people in online business)My origin story I've never told… involving MySpace, major record labels, and street teamsThe subtle but powerful shift in how relationships serve you at different business stagesMy unfiltered take on visibility strategies that didn't work — and the two that still matter mostResources: Predictable Sales: a secret podcast around making predictable – even daily – sales Your First 10 Sales: a secret podcast perfect for if you're not making consistent sales yet Connect with Adriane: Adriane's Instagram Visionaries' Instagram Adriane's LinkedIn Visit the Visionaries website ⭐️ Love this episode? We'd GREATLY appreciate a 5-star review! ⭐️

Business coach Robin Waite reveals how authentic entrepreneurs can escape the "sales cycle of doom" and build profitable coaching businesses without relying on social media. In this milestone 200th episode, Robin shares his counterintuitive approach to scaling a business by serving fewer clients while doubling income through strategic pricing and productization. You'll discover Robin's five-step partnership framework that generated 3,000 leads from a single podcast interview and produced $300,000 in revenue. Learn why the fearless business coach believes 2025 marks a major shift away from social media noise toward deep relationship building and long-form content partnerships. Robin breaks down his proven strategies for how to get coaching clients through intentional networking, value-first partnerships, and finding your "inside man" in any organization. Perfect for entrepreneurs ready to move beyond hourly billing and create irresistible coaching packages. Robin explains why charging by the hour is unethical, how to confidently charge more for your services, and his step-by-step guide to productizing any service business. You'll learn practical pricing strategies, how to handle existing client price increases, and why having fewer clients actually strengthens your business foundation. Robin also shares insights from his bestselling books including "Take Your Shot" and discusses building a sustainable one-person coaching practice that prioritizes authentic relationships over digital marketing tactics. This episode connects directly to fundamental business building principles every entrepreneur needs to master. Listen now for actionable frameworks that transform service businesses into profitable, scalable enterprises.

Are you glued to your phone, constantly posting but not seeing sales roll in? Exhausted by the never-ending scroll and wondering if social media is really the best way to market your business? In this episode of Grow My Small Business, I'm getting real about social media overwhelm—and inviting you to join the Screen Free Challenge, a 31-day reset to help you reclaim your time, your peace, and your productivity. We'll talk about: Why social media may not be the best sales and marketing tool for your small business The surprising truth about how many actual sales come from posting on social media What I've gained since removing social media from my phone in January 2025 How to get hours back in your week without losing momentum in your business A completely free challenge that gives you 31 days of real action steps to grow your business without social media stress This isn't about quitting Instagram forever. It's about building smarter marketing habits and discovering proven sales strategies that don't require 24/7 online hustle.

Send us a textSerena dives deep into marketing strategies for bookkeepers and small business owners who are skeptical or overwhelmed by social media, sharing practical tips for building connections and growing your business.What You'll Learn:Marketing isn't just about social media: Discover a multi-pronged approach including offline networking, online presence, and website strategyBuild your "circle of influence" by connecting with complementary professionals like insurance agents, bankers, and consultantsHow to start small and prioritize your marketing efforts without getting overwhelmedThe power of delivering exceptional service as your best marketing toolResources mentioned:UpworkLinkedInKajabiSquarespaceTia's "Squarespace for Bookkeepers" Program: https://www.riledupgoats.com/ssfbFor experienced bookkeepers & accountants:Learn how to start your bookkeeping business in The Bookkeeping Business Accelerator®: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/bbaGrab my FREE Start your Bookkeeping Biz Checklist: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/checklistGrab my FREE New Client Onboarding Templates: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/onboardFor new bookkeepers:Learn the fundamental accounting skills in Katie Ferro's Become a Bookkeeper: https://www.katieferro.com/a/38894/2PQNgtvvFor online course creators:Become a client at my firm, Of Course Financial: https://www.ofcoursebookkeeping.com/contactConnect with us:Visit our website: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.comFollow the Blog: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/blogConnect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ambitiousbookkeeperConnect on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@ambitiousbookkeeperConnect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/serenashoupcpaPodcast Publishing Tools we use:Editing → Sabr Media LLC: https://www.iangilliam.com/sabr-media-llcDescript: https://get.descript.com/u7lubkx09073 (affiliate link)Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1753696 (affiliate link)Don't miss Workflow Queen's April Fools Sale - March 29 - April 120% off Everything >> Use Code APRILFOOLS⬇️ ⬇️workflowqueen.com/courses

How do you know if social media is really worth it? Social media inundates almost every aspect of our lives these days, from communicating with friends to deciding what to listen to, watch, or buy—all the way down the line to actually listening to, watching, and buying it. So, of course, many podcast creators worry that leaving social media behind is an enormous marketing faux pas. But what if it isn't? Amanda Laird is the marketing pro behind Slow and Steady Studio. She wields more than two decades of PR and management experience to help small businesses and non-profits do just enough marketing to reach their goals in ways that make sense for them. In this episode, Amanda shares plenty of tips for figuring out whether that social media slog is paying off. You'll discover the link between podcasting and social media, as well as the first steps to determining exactly how social media marketing serves your podcast—and how your podcast serves you—so you can make strategic decisions that drive success rather than drive you crazy. Hear Amanda's insights on how essential social media really is to podcast marketing: What benefits are social media providing for your show? Where does podcasting fit in your marketing sandwich? What is your podcast's consistent call to action? Should you consider moving your podcast to Substack? Links worth mentioning from the episode: Amelia Hruby's podcast episode, “Should I host my podcast on Substack?”: https://www.softersounds.studio/softercast/should-i-host-my-podcast-on-substack Episode 87, “Find Podcast Success While Doing Less”: https://www.organizedsound.ca/find-podcast-success-while-doing-less-episode-87/ The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illnesss by Johnathan Haidt - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-anxious-generation-how-the-great-rewiring-of-childhood-is-causing-an-epidemic-of-mental-illness-jonathan-haidt/20144236?ean=9780593655030&next=t&next=t Engage with Amanda: Get some podcast clarity for your marketing with Amanda: https://www.slowandsteady.studio/ Connect with Mary! Leave a voice note with your feedback at https://www.speakpipe.com/VisibleVoice or email visiblevoicepodcast@gmail.com Get the full transcript of the episode at http://www.visiblevoicepodcast.com Read up on more secrets with the Visible Voice Insights Newsletter https://www.organizedsound.ca/newsletter To learn more or work with Mary, check out https://www.organizedsound.ca Link up on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marychan-organizedsound/ Engage on Instagram @OrganizedSoundProductions https://www.instagram.com/organizedsoundproductions Show Credits: Podcast audio design, engineering, and edited by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions Show notes written by Shannon Kirk of Right Words Studio Post-production support by Kristalee Forre of Forre You VA Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co. Transcript with Audio Description: [MUSIC IN - GHOSTHOOD FEATURING SARA AZRIEL “LET'S GO” BEGINS] MARY: There's no shortage of distraction these days. We are digitally connected, and there's so much we can learn or be entertained by, especially from the world of social media. And today it's even more heightened because of all the research into how social media is playing a negative role in our mental health, and especially with kids growing up in this digital, like, hyper digital age. You know, recently, last year, there was Jonathan Haidt's wildly popular book called The Anxious Generation, how it connects social media to the epidemic of teen mental illness.  Yet, as podcasters, we use social media without thinking much about it sometimes. We use it to promote our show. And if you have a business or organization that's tied to the podcast, that you need to talk about your message too, and it's all done on our screens, and it feels as if social media is the number one way to market the show, or sometimes even, like, the only way to market your show. So as a podcaster, we might think without social media, your message might sink without it. However, there really are alternatives. We marketed way before social media even existed. And so I've always thought, why can't we still market today like we did back in the day before social media existed?  So on today's episode, we're talking about marketing without social media with Amanda Laird. Amanda is the Founder of Slow and Steady Studio and a marketing communications strategist. She has more than 20 years of experience in communications and PR and management, and now helps solopreneurs, small businesses, and nonprofit organizations do what she calls “just enough marketing to reach their goals their way”.  And I love the idea of just enough marketing because I worked with her on one of her Clarity Sessions about two years ago. You know, my side of the story, which I tell briefly on the episode, is basically realizing how social media actually plays a role in my business and podcast, or actually the lack of a role social media actually plays and what I can be doing instead of social media. But also knowing it might play a little part in what I do. So I am still on it. So it's about talking about how to best use my time and stop that doom scrolling.  Amanda and I also get into Substack. I really wanted to highlight this with her because it's the new shiny object for podcasters and the Internet. So Substack is heavily using podcasting and video on their platform. So if you're wondering about Substack, listen through to the whole episode and how that can or cannot integrate with your podcast. So, yeah, if you're curious or just wondering if you should be giving up on social media or even figuring out if you want to do less on these social platforms. Today's episode is for you.  This is episode number 91 with Amanda Laird on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.  > MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

In this episode, Dylan sits down with Gabe Cox, founder of Red Hot Mindset, to discuss the challenges of balancing motherhood, entrepreneurship, and goal-setting. They dive into strategies for scaling an Etsy business using corporate e-commerce principles and the importance of mindset in achieving business success. Gabe shares her journey, highlighting how she manages a full plate including homeschooling her three sons and maintaining a thriving coaching business. The conversation touches on effective marketing without relying on social media, time management, and setting purposeful goals. In this episode, we discuss:[01:37] Meet Gabe Cox: Background and Experience[02:56] Balancing Motherhood and Entrepreneurship[04:41] Setting Boundaries and Prioritizing Tasks[13:12] Goal Setting and Achieving Success[18:48] Marketing Without Social Media[22:41] Connecting and Collaborating with Other Business OwnersConnect with Gabe: Website: https://redhotmindset.com Craft Your Marketing Strategy without Social Media Mini Course: https://redhotmindset.com/marketing/ About Gabe Cox: Gabe is a goal planning and business strategist and the founder of Red Hot Mindset. She helps entrepreneurs personalize and take action on a game plan that works with their capacity in different seasons so that they don't have to sacrifice everything to hit their goals. She teaches how to market your business without relying on social media so that you can ditch the hustle culture for good.Want to get your $1 trial listing? Head to EtSEO and grab it today.

Think marketing only thrives online? Think again! Michelle ventures into the world of screen-free branding to share tips on capturing your audience's hearts without relying on social media. Reconnect with the magic of print, unique in-person events, and authentic community engagement. Ready to rethink how you build your brand? ------------------------ In today's episode, we cover the following: Print design comeback Event hosting Community engagement Crafting experiential moments ----------------------- This episode is sponsored by Sticker Giant. Elevate your branding with labels and stickers that will attract attention in all of the right ways. Bring your designs to life by visiting StickerGiant.com and using promo code KMAPODCAST for 15% off!! ----------------------- WORK WITH MKW CREATIVE CO.   Connect on social with Michelle at: Kiss My Aesthetic Facebook Group Instagram Tik Tok ----------------------- Did you know that the fuel of the POD and the KMA Team runs on coffee? ;) If you love the content shared in the KMA podcast, you're welcome to invite us to a cup of coffee any time - Buy Me a Coffee! ----------------------- This episode of the Kiss My Aesthetic Podcast is brought to you by Audible. Get your first month free at www.audible.com/kma.   This episode was edited by Berta Wired Theme music by: Eliza Rosevera and Nathan Menard

Are you burnt out from social media and algorithim changes? Are you tired of feeling like your on Instagram for hours each day? In this episode, we're discussing marketing for real estate agents without social media in 2025. We'll cover topics like: -Real Estate Marketing Ideas without Social Media for 2025 -Why relying 100% on social media is dangerous for your real estate business -Content marketing strategies that include SEO and long-form content -Why email marketing for real estate agents should be a priority in 2025 -And how you can take action to create a well-rounded 2025 marketing strategy If you want to learn more about evergreen, real estate SEO, searchable and long-form content, I want to invite you to join The Breakout Agent membership today! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/modernrealestatemama/support

Hey Winner, You're feeling the pains of being on social media, you're spending hours there without too many results to show for it. It's draining your energy, taking your time, and you're wanting something different. I get it. I've been there! So, how do you make this transition if you're ready to market your business without social media? Andria Singletary is here today to share signs it's time to transition away from social media as a marketing strategy and how to decide if you should completely step away from social media or just use it less in your business.  She'll walk us through her 4-step process for transitioning to marketing without social and how to navigate the mindset drama that comes up when deciding to rely less on social media for your business. This is going to be an action-packed session, so buckle up and get ready to learn! Rooting for you ~ Gabe   LISTEN TO HEAR: Signs it's time to transition away from social media as a marketing strategy How to decide if you should completely step away from social media or use social media less in your business Andria's four-step process for transitioning to marketing without social media How to navigate the mindset drama that comes up when deciding to rely less on social media for your business LINKS MENTIONED IN EPISODE: Andria's website: https://mamaturnedmompreneur.com/ Get Visible off Social Media podcast playlist: https://expert-leader-6464.ck.page/776f445a62 Free mini course: Craft Your Marketing Strategy Without Social Media: https://redhotmindset.com/marketing CONNECT WITH ME: ➡️ Website: https://redhotmindset.com ➡️ Join the Red Hot Accountability Club: https://redhotmindset.com/rha/ ➡️ Free workshop: 3 pillars to setting and crushing goals in a stress-less, no hustle way https://redhotmindset.com/goals/

This week on the podcast, Rachel and Lynne chat with the inspiring Leonie Dawson. Leonie is a marketer, author and course creator, helping businesses develop their marketing - all in just 10 hours a week. We love her approach to work/life balance! In this episode, we chat about: Why social media is not the only way to market How you can find your audience How to think laterally about your marketing How to run a hugely successful business and still have a life Keeping a positive mindset, especially in tough times The opportunities to be found in an economic downturn The power of a simple two-page marketing plan Find Leonie and download some of her many freebies at https://leoniedawson.com/  Learn more about marketing your business at The Content Byte Summit, from September 12-14, 2024 in Sydney. Sign up for updates for the Summit (or snap up tickets) at our website: https://thecontentbytesummit.com.au   Find Rachel www.rachelsmith.com.au  Find Lynne www.lynnetestoni.com    Rachel's List www.rachelslist.com.au Thanks (as always) to our sponsors Rounded (www.rounded.com.au), an easy invoicing and accounting solution that helps freelancers run their businesses with confidence. Looking to take advantage of the discount for Rachel's List Gold Members? Email us at: hello@rachelslist.com.au for the details. Episode edited by Marker Creative Co www.markercreative.co 

Welcome back to another episode of Real Talk with Regan! Today, Regan is interviewing the incredible Stephanie Polcyn, a Business Marketing Strategist. This episode is part of an exciting series, and you're tuning into Part 2: Become A Client Magnet Outside of Content Marketing with Stephanie Polcyn.Stephanie shares how women, especially mothers, can grow their client base and amplify their marketing without being tied to Instagram.In this episode, Stephanie and Regan discuss:Why Stephanie shifted from only posting on Instagram to a different approach as a mom, business owner, and wife.How "mom guilt" is becoming a thing of the past with this new marketing strategy.How to get off the endless content train and use time more wisely.Three effective ways Stephanie teaches her clients to market: podcasts, books, and events.The art of keeping marketing simple through a repurposing system. Connect with Stephanie here! Want to listen to Part 1 where Regan talks about Mindset Mastery to Make Your Sales + Marketing Work.

It's that time of the month again! The tea is piping hot and ready for sipping ☕️ Got a question? Wanna share your thoughts? Leave it here on the Q&A FormConnect With The EE:Follow Us on IG @the.esotericentrepreneurSubscribe to YouTube Channel to Watch The PodcastConnect With Jaz:Follow & Connect IGIntro & Outro Music - Thnx 4 Nothin' By JZMN JYN. Click here to listen of spotify!

In this insightful episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, we sit down with Courtnie Nichols, a Luxury Travel Advisor and Business Strategist renowned for disrupting the travel industry. Courtnie shares her expert strategies for marketing retreats without relying on social media. Delve into the world of SEO, evergreen content, blogging, and other effective marketing techniques that can elevate your retreat's visibility and attract more attendees. Key Discussion Points: 1. Introduction to Courtnie Nichols:    - Overview of Courtnie's background as a Luxury Travel Advisor and her influence as a Business Strategist and industry disrupter.    - Discussion on her approach to innovative marketing strategies in the travel sector.   2. The Role of SEO in Retreat Marketing:    - Courtnie explains how optimizing your retreat website and content for search engines can significantly increase organic reach and attract more targeted traffic.    - Tips on keyword and SEO best practices tailored specifically for retreat leaders.   3. Leveraging Evergreen Content:    - The importance of creating timeless content that continues to attract and engage potential retreat attendees over time.    - Strategies for identifying topics that resonate with your target audience and maintaining relevance in your niche.   4. Blogging as a Marketing Tool:    - How to use blogging effectively to share valuable information, establish authority, and build trust with potential attendees.    - Insights on integrating SEO techniques into your blog posts to maximize visibility and engagement.   5. Additional Marketing Strategies:    - Courtnie shares other non-social media marketing avenues such as partnerships, email marketing, and guest posting on relevant platforms.    - Discussion on the integration of these strategies to create a comprehensive marketing plan that enhances retreat enrollment.   More info on Courtnie Nichols: https://www.courtnienichols.com/about    The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links: Learn to Host Retreats The Retreat Ranch   Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let's create a vibrant retreat community together!   Subscribe:  Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify Connect with Shannon Jamail: Visit The Retreat Leaders Podcast Visit Retreat Ranch  Facebook Mind & Body Complete

This week on Marketing Like a Mother, Michelle is talking with Laura Agar Wilson, Business Mentor & Coach for Health & Life Coaches. In this episode we're talking about: - Laura's journey as a business mentor and coach for health and life coaches. - Building successful businesses without the pressure of social media - Creating a flexible work-life balance - The importance of experimentation and trying new strategies in business - Focusing on search-based platforms like blogging, Pinterest, and YouTube vs social media - Clear communication & setting boundaries with clients to manage work and family responsibilities effectively - And more!

Are you tired of feeling like you're constantly busy but not seeing the revenue results you desire? It's time to shift your focus from busy work to revenue-generating activities that will propel your business forward. But what the heck are the 'right' activities to focus on? Well, I'm uncovering all that in the latest episode of "Marketing Without Social Media," Plus I'm sharing my personal experiences, struggles, and successes, shedding light on the mindset shifts and actions necessary for achieving tangible results.These insights will help you identify the tasks that truly move the needle and distinguish them from time-consuming activities that don't directly contribute to your bottom line. Plus I'm offering practical advice on how to allocate your time to ensure you're consistently working on activities that drive sales, growth, and client acquisition.Wanna get clients every month without spending hours working your ass off creating content for social media that just DOES NOT convert? Join me for our next free, no pitch Live workshop https://vivguy.com/workshop1Get my eyes on your business for a full 45 minutes and let's figure out the key areas to focus on in your marketing to get you hitting your enrollment targets and making 5k+ months and beyond. www.vivguy.com/apply/Join 3000+ online coaches and course creators and get access to the weekly Insider Secrets to Marketing that Works newsletter with insider tips on how to start, grow and MAKE SALES to hit your enrollment and sales targets every single month. http://www.vivguy.com/EasyLike the episode? Drop me an email - hello@vivguy.com and let me know.Love the show? Leave a 5-star review, take a screenshot, and tag me on IG and you'll be entered into our monthly prize drawing. Website: www.vivguy.com Facebook Messenger http://m.me/Viv.guy.coach Facebook ...

Wanna get clients every month without spending hours working your ass off creating content for social media that just DOES NOT convert? Join me for our next free, no pitch Live workshop https://vivguy.com/workshop1Get my eyes on your business for a full 45 minutes and let's figure out the key areas to focus on in your marketing to get you hitting your enrollment targets and making 5k+ months and beyond. www.vivguy.com/apply/Join 3000+ online coaches and course creators and get access to the weekly Insider Secrets to Marketing that Works newsletter with insider tips on how to start, grow and MAKE SALES to hit your enrollment and sales targets every single month. http://www.vivguy.com/EasyLike the episode? Drop me an email - hello@vivguy.com and let me know.Love the show? Leave a 5-star review, take a screenshot, and tag me on IG and you'll be entered into our monthly prize drawing. Website: www.vivguy.com Facebook Messenger http://m.me/Viv.guy.coach Facebook ...

Welcome to a bold new chapter of "Marketing Without Social Media." In this episode, we're throwing back the curtain on why just 6 weeks after our relaunch and rebrand we are throwing out the new and going back to our original show name!I'll be sharing some real-time and heartfelt realignments that have been happening here at HQ and in my personal life.I've realised it's time to circle back to the core values that initially fueled my passion: empowering entrepreneurs through marketing without social media, and ensuring that my own venture remains authentic and aligned with my vision for a balanced life.With raw honesty, I open up about my mental health challenges, the struggles I've faced in education, and the previous business ventures that led me here. It's a narrative of transformation and of a renewed commitment to the strategies that truly resonate.Tune in to Episode 74 as we explore:- The powerful realization that sparked a dramatic pivot in my business model, and how it could change the way you think about marketing.- Practical advice for entrepreneurs feeling overwhelmed by social media, including alternative, effective marketing strategies.- Insights into designing a business that prioritizes your well-being and the lessons learned from my own entrepreneurial journey.- How my experience with at-risk youth shaped my approach to business and the valuable parallels it offers to any entrepreneur.Wanna get clients every month without spending hours working your ass off creating content for social media that just DOES NOT convert? Join me for our next free, no pitch Live workshop https://vivguy.com/workshop1Get my eyes on your business for a full 45 minutes and let's figure out the key areas to focus on in your marketing to get you hitting your enrollment targets and making 5k+ months and beyond. www.vivguy.com/apply/Join 3000+ online coaches and course creators and get access to the weekly Insider Secrets to Marketing that Works newsletter with insider tips on how to start, grow and MAKE SALES to hit your enrollment and sales targets every single month. http://www.vivguy.com/EasyLike the episode? Drop me an email - hello@vivguy.com and let me know.Love the show? Leave a 5-star review, take a screenshot, and tag me on IG and you'll be entered into our monthly prize drawing. Website: www.vivguy.com Facebook Messenger http://m.me/Viv.guy.coach Facebook ...

Hey, Mama! If you are currently facing social media burnout or desire to step back from social media for marketing, then today's episode is for you. In today's episode, I break down my four step process for transitioning your business to marketing without social media. Social media doesn't have to be part of your marketing strategy if it's not how you best show up for your community or if it's just something you have no desire to do. You have options. It's about finding what works best for you in your current season of life. In this episode, you will learn:How to determine if you're ready to transition to marketing without social mediaThings to consider before stepping away from social mediaMy 4 step process for transitioning your business to marketing without social mediaResources Mentioned in Today's Episode:Life in Seasons 1:1 CoachingRecommended Podcast + Business Tools:Podcast Hosting: Captivate (7-Day Free Trial) Simplify your marketing through podcasting: Make Money Podcasting Audio CourseCreate podcast content that nurtures and converts your podcast listeners into your paid programs and offers: The Lead Generation Playbook Private PodcastEmail Marketing: Convertkit (14-Day Free Trial)CRM: Dubsado (Save 20% on your first month or year)Website Builder: Showit (30-Day Free Trial)Host your community and sell your digital products: PodiaSome of the above links are affiliate links, meaning I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you.For show notes and resources mentioned in today's episode, head to www.mamaturnedmompreneur.com/episode134I want to hear from you! Have a question or an episode idea? Leave me a message and have your message played on the podcast! Leave a message here.Connect with Andria:Instagram: @mamaturnedmompreneurEmail: hello@mamaturnedmompreneur.comWebsite: www.mamaturnedmompreneur.comThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

A whopping 88% of podcasts fail! Yep, only 2 in 10 make it past 6 episodes before heading off to the Apple Graveyard.Why, because they failed to launch well and didn't see the results they'd hoped for when they decided to start a podcast. Launching well, with a strategic plan in place is going to make the difference to your podcast and sales success.Already launched and things aren't going well? Don't worry we're covering all that and more in this episode.Tune into Episode 2 of our 4-part mini-series on how to create a profitable podcast so you can hit your enrolment and sales targets EVERY SINGLE MONTH.Let's plan an effective launch strategy that is going to help you get to the top of the charts and help you get the maximum number of downloads.DISCOVER:  Why launching in the TOP 100 is so important to the future success of your show How to get your dream listeners to choose your show over your competitionHow a relaunch can get you traction, momentum, and energy and bring people to your podcast. Want to create a profitable multi-six-figure podcast of your own? Join me for our next free, no pitch Live workshop https://vivguy.com/workshop1Get my eyes on your business for a full 45 minutes and let's figure out the key areas to focus on to get you hitting your enrollment targets and making 6 figures and beyond. www.vivguy.com/apply/Join 3000+ online coaches and course creators and get access to the weekly Podcast Sales Made Easy newsletter with insider tips on how to start, grow and MAKE SALES to hit your enrollment and sales targets every single month. http://www.vivguy.com/EasyLike the episode? Share it on social and tag me @viv.guyLove the show? Leave a 5-star review, take a screenshot, and tag me on IG and you'll be entered into our monthly prize drawing. Website: www.vivguy.com Instagram @viv.guy Facebook Messenger http://m.me/Viv.guy.coach Facebook ...

In this episode of "Enneagram and Coffee," I interview Julie Ciardi, a business and mindset coach for women. We discuss the importance of niche building and running a business without relying solely on social media. Julie shares her journey from a corporate career at IBM to entrepreneurship, her discovery of her Enneagram type, and the impact it had on her. She emphasizes the value of working with a trained Enneagram expert. I also share my insights on identifying patterns in ideal clients, evidence-based niching, and the power of in-person interactions and offline marketing techniques. To learn more about how to work with Julie and BEcome the version of yourself that makes the impossible possible, visit www.igniteherbrand.com or tune into the BRAND Podcast on your favorite streaming platform. -- Enneagram University ( bonuses available when you sign up through my link ) - https://www.theenneagramuniversity.com/?ref=6708b5 50% off honeybook - share.honeybook.com/sarajane725 FREE coaching business roadmap: https://sarajane-case-3grp.squarespace.com/freecoachingroadmap Notion Templates here - www.sarajanecase.com/shop  Enneagram Coffee here - https://www.summitcoffee.com/sarajanecasestore Call/text your enneagram questions to (828) 338-9127 Grab a copy of my books at www.thehonestenneagram.com & www.theenneagramletters.com Check out my YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/sarajanecase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Imagine being able to find clients without using social media. Sound like the dream? Viv Guy has done it. And she's here to share how she does it, what happened to her business when she came off social media, and how she's swapping scrolling for connecting!   Viv Guy Website: vivguy.com Freebie: https://vivguy.com/accelerator/   Emma Cossey Follow me on Instagram Email: hello@emmacossey.com Come join us in the free Freelance Lifestylers Facebook group Want more support? Check out the Freelance Lifestyle School courses and membership.    

It's not a secret that organic reach on Facebook, Instagram and others is at an all time low. What's worse, even if you've mastered a platform or two, it seems as if every week or so, there's yet another algorithm update that threatens to destroy all the work you've put into it. Pinterest users are even feeling the pinch. The platform is often referred to as a search engine rather than a social network, and as such it's been the go-to traffic source for bloggers in many niches for years. But now, even Pinterest has left some content creators feeling frustrated over a dramatic drop in traffic. But what can you do? How else can you get the word out about your latest course, or your new opt-in offer? Turns out, there are plenty of ways you can market your business without social media, and in this week's episode, I'll give you my top 21 suggestions. Prefer a transcript? Here you go! What you'll learn in this episode: Why I finally (mostly) left social media, and how I'm making Facebook work on my terms today. The single most important marketing channel all small business owners should be prioritizing, and why. How to leverage search (and not just from Google) to get in front of your ideal audience. The strategy I used to launch my business and quickly grow to six-figures in revenue. What Steve Martin can teach us all about getting noticed in a competitive world. Resources mentioned: Debbie Gartner's SEO guides are worth every penny. Start with this one if you're brand new, or this one if you've been blogging for a while. Stupid Simple SEO is the best full-featured course on SEO I know of. I took it two years ago and it's well worth the time and money investment. Start with Mike's free class to learn more about the topic and his teaching style. Affiliate Program Success was not mentioned, but it's a helpful resource if you're interested in creating your own affiliate program to sell your courses and products. Medium.com has a built in audience and it's easy to get started syndicating your content there. HelpAReporter.com is a great resource if you want to get quoted on high-traffic sites. Sign up as a "source" and then choose the types of notifications to receive. Meetup.com makes live, in person networking easier. Just search your area for your topics of interest. UpViral makes hosting a viral contest as simple as filling in a few details. Steve Martin has the best advice you will ever hear about finding success, and it's not just true for show business. In episode eight I talked more about participating in bundles and giveaways for list building.

Noella Andres is a self-made marketing queen (and a co-coach inside The Wedding CEO). She pivoted her business from wedding photography to an online business. She works best behind the scenes with any platform that is rooted in Marketing. Tune into today's episode if you're ready to grow a business without using social mediaNoella's Linkswww.noellaandres.comFREEBIE Loved this episode? Share & tag me @alora.rachelle - so I can love on you for it.Follow & rate the podcast - Apple - Spotify

Alexandra Franzen is a best-selling author, award-winning editor, and entrepreneur based in Hawaii. She has written seven books including two novels. She has written articles for Time, Forbes, Newsweek, The Huffington Post, and Lifehacker. Her work has been mentioned in The New York Times Small Business Blog, The Atlantic, The Los Angeles Times, Fast Company, BuzzFeed, Inc., in Tim Ferriss' newsletter, and she has appeared on the Peabody Award-winning radio show, Marketplace.She's the co-founder of a company called Get It Done and a brick and mortar bookstore called One Idea Books and Gifts.In this episode, we talk about:How she became a self-employed creativeHer decision for getting off social mediaHow to market without social mediaHer daily routineWhy she instituted a 4 day work week for her companyWorking on projects for clients vs yourselfSelf publishing vs Traditional PublishingCreative Resources:AlphabetizerThe Name of the Wind by Patrick RothfussConnect with Alex:Website: www.alexandrafranzen.comwww.youcangetitdone.com

If you've been frustrated with social media recently, you may have found yourself wondering "Is there another way?" In this episode Alice speaks with guest Astrid Bracke about ways to move your business away from social media... but what instead? We talk about making space to create in a way you enjoy, using your "content calories" wisely and being playful with alternatives. Astrid is a mentor for small businesses, supporting them to build a slower, gentler and more profitable business. She's on a mission to change how we feel, think and talk about business, and about kicking the hustle and productivity culture to the curb. Astrid supports small business owners and freelancers through 1:1 mentoring, workshops and her writing. She loves big mugs of strong milky tea, always carries a book and takes care of 120+ houseplants. Find out more from Astrid: https://astridbracke.com/ Grab her series on "How to Move your Business away from Social Media (free 4-week email series) HERE: https://astridbracke.com/move-your-business-away-from-social-media/ Substack newsletter: https://astridbracke.substack.com/ Should you move your newsletter to Substack? (blog post): https://astridbracke.com/should-you-move-your-newsletter-to-substack/ Mentioned: Book recommendation: Kate Atkinson's Shrines of Gaiety Travel Man series with Richard Ayoade taster! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbB4l8ihK4k&t=7s Art Juice brings you honest, generous, and humorous conversations that will feed your creative soul and get you thinking with artists Alice Sheridan and Louise Fletcher. See Alice Sheridan at: www.alicesheridan.com @alicesheridanstudio Find more about Louise Fletcher: www.louisefletcherart.com @louisefletcher_art Credits: "Monkeys Spinning Monkeys" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

How has Alexandra Franzen built two thriving businesses without social media? By delivering work with a quality I like to call “exquisite greatness.” She treats every marketing initiative like a tiny art project, something to get excited about rather than a draining chore to dread—and no, it doesn't require social media. As Alex shares, according to a Nielsen study, 92% of customers purchase products or services because of a recommendation from someone they know. This episode originally aired on June 14, 2022. More About Alex: Alexandra Franzen is a bestselling author, award-winning editor, and entrepreneur based in Hawaii. She's the co-founder of Get It Done, a company providing writing coaching, editing, proofreading, cover design, publishing, and distribution services for clients who want to write a book. She writes one of my favorite newsletters at AlexandraFranzen.com, and runs her popular Tiny Book Course. Alex deleted all of her social media accounts eight years ago as she describes in her forthcoming book, Marketing Without Social Media.

My friend Jadah Sellner, author and business mentor, joins me on this episode to talk about the takeaways and creative process behind her latest book, She Builds: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. We discuss what it looks like to detox from hustle culture, lead with love, and embody your own definition of success. This book is a full integration of the masculine and feminine, providing both a practical and holistic point of view on how to avoid burnout and discover more flow in your life. Jadah's perspective on entrepreneurship and personal development is such a breath of fresh air. I can't wait for you to hear our conversation and get your copy of She Builds! In episode 409 of the Embodied Podcast we discuss: [3:24] Setting the standard of inclusive, trauma-informed teachers and mentors.   [10:00] Receiving feedback in a constructive way and working through your unconscious biases.   [18:13] Jadah's business philosophy: love over metrics.   [22:46] Why is the baseline goal to be a seven-figure business owner?  [25:48] What ‘anti-hustle culture' is all about.   [29:57] Embracing your pace and following the seasons of your life.   [39:22] Inside-out processing vs. outsourcing your answers and decisions to other people.   [46:00] What we learned in Alexandra Franzen's course: Marketing Without Social Media  [51:38] Jadah's reflections on the creative writing process.    Slide into my DMs on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabethdialto/ Or slide into Jadah's DMs on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jadahsellner/     Resources mentioned by Elizabeth in the episode: Sign Up for the Free Embodiment Course  Sacred Embodiment Specialist (SES) Training Catch the full show notes for episode 409 here Email us with questions or feedback. Don't miss an episode of The Embodied Podcast.

Do you feel like social media is working for you as a marketing channel for your business? In this episode I'm talking about marketing without social media and what you can do to power up your evergreen, non-social media marketing. LINKS:  Get your hands on my FREE marketing without social media 30-point checklist 5 tips for SEO friendly blog posts

What If Social Media Disappeared? Are you overly reliant on social media? What if social media disappeared? What would you do?  Our show talks a lot about creating content and running a business using digital marketing tactics. All.The.Time. In this episode, Jen and Shelley discuss what they would do if social media suddenly disappeared. They discuss how you can adapt your marketing strategies, develop your business differently, and even who you could reach out to and how to go about reaching them. Training topics include: Marketing strategy Business development Who to reach out to How to reach them Free Download: https://sendfox.com/lp/1x7ejp (The Client Attraction Checklist: 23 of The Most Effective Ways To Attract Qualified Leads) Words of Wisdom By diversifying your marketing and not relying solely on social media, you become much more resilient. — Jen Collaboration is a great place to start because the people who know you are the people who are most open to your offers in working with you. — Shelley Breaking News https://www.nearmedia.co/yahoo-comeback-review-crisis-freelancers-now-36/ (Freelancers now 36% of the Workforce) (Near Media): we discuss whether this is good (or bad) for workers in general and freelancers in particular. Can't-Miss Resources Tweak of the Week (Software to Look Into) https://tryshift.com/ (Shift) "the workstation for productive people" — organize your email accounts (all of them!) and apps in one place. Tired of having 5000 tabs open? Consider using Shift ($99/year). A cheaper alternative: https://www.kiwiforgmail.com/ (Kiwi for Gmail) (Free - $58/yr.) Inspirational Nugget The stable person keeps their rational soul invincible, for it's precisely in the good times they prove their strength against adversity. — Seneca Am I prepared for my bubble to burst? We cannot rely too heavily on what has been, up to this point, normal. We have witnessed over the last two years that everything can shut down overnight. Events and flights cancel, jobs disappear, and family and friends get sick and die. What then can we rely upon? Our values and ideals. When we choose our goals based on our values, we will always discover another way to achieve a value-based goal when we run into unexpected obstacles. Connect with Us Podcast Production Podcast hosting: https://www.captivate.fm/signup?ref=womenconquerbiz (Captivate*) (affiliate link) Livestream: https://streamyard.com/?pal=5720244600700928 (StreamYard*) (Shelley's referral link) Music: https://uppbeat.io/ (Uppbeat.io) Connect with Jen Brought to you by Women Conquer Business https://linkedin.com/in/jensmcfarland (Connect with Jen McFarland) https://www.womenconquerbiz.com/marketing-services/ (Women Conquer Business marketing consultancy) https://epiphanycourses.com/ (Epiphany Courses) Connect with Shelley Engineered by AGK Media Studio https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelleycarney/ (Connect with Shelley Carney) Shelley's Livestream consultancy http://agkmedia.studio/ (AGK Media Studio) Shelley's podcast: https://anchor.fm/messagesandmethods (Messages and Methods: Livecast Life 2.0 Podcast)  

Are you intrigued by the episode title? CAN a business survive without maintaining a social media presence?Well, this Imperfect Marketing episode with Johanna Renoth might seem counterintuitive, but it offers an amazing new perspective on business management.Yes, it is possible to market your business without relying on social platforms!I had a fantastic time speaking with Johanna Renoth about her journey, the self-awareness she has developed, and how she is running a very successful business without structure and social media.Could you do it? Or have you already taken the plunge and deleted your business's social accounts?I would love to hear your story; drop me an email at support@kendracorman.com.Click here to access the transcript and follow along!Related Links and Resources:Johanna's websiteJohanna's new courseKendra's Secrets to Generating Content IdeasDo you enjoy social media, but feel stuck? Try these 30 Days of Post Ideas!Identify your target audience Looking to save time or get more information from AI?If you're just starting out with AI or looking to enhance your outputs, my book 'Mastering AI in Communications' is your essential guide. Whether you're a beginner or ready to take your skills to the next level, grab your free electronic copy or purchase it on Amazon right here!Amazon: https://a.co/d/bhblVcGFree e-version: https://courses.kendracorman.com/aibookDon't miss this opportunity to transform your approach and make AI your most powerful tool yet in saving time and improving efficiency!

Today I'm talking to Viv Guy about growing your business without social media. Viv is a business coach, mentor, strategist, and the host of the podcast Marketing Without Social Media. Viv is passionate about helping service-based business owners create recurring 5k+ months, WITHOUT social media (bye-bye hamster wheel of content!), having created her first successful biz in her 20s without it. The best bit; doing it all in just 20 hours a week! In this episode, you'll learn about growing your business without social media as well as... Why Viv thinks there's a growing interest in ditching Social Media If not Social Media, then what? Viv's ideas to grow your business without it Her 3 favorite ways of growing without social How to get traffic to our free offers to get people on to our email list Advantages of email vs. Social Media How Viv thinks Social Media will evolve in the next 5 year And so much more Viv's Resources Viv's Website Viv's Podcast: Marketing Without Social Media Viv's Free Guide: 21 Ways to Get Clients Off Social Media Sarah's Resources Watch this episode on Youtube (FREE) Sarah's One Page Marketing Plan (FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter (FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto (FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book The Humane Marketing Circle Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course Podcast Show Notes We use Descript to edit our episodes and it's fantastic! Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com Thanks for listening! After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast? The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers - a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact. — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Sarah: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] Hey Viv. So good to speak to you today. I look forward to our, I'm gonna just let in the listeners that were doing a double episode. So we're, we're recording first for my show. And then I'm gonna be recording one for your show. So yay. We get to hang out all morning. So welcome to the humane marketing podcast with, so Viv: I'm excited to have. Thanks, sir. I'm so, so happy to be here. And one a morning, we've got how exciting is it's awesome. I think, you know, we're gonna come away from this, like bursting at the seams. I think there's so much energy and value that we take Sarah: exactly. And all these new ideas about social media and marketing and all of that. So, Viv: yeah, I'm [00:07:00] really excited. Sarah: Cool. Well, let's dive right in. I, I, I have some big picture questions for you, but then also some nitty gritty, like, you know, how do we do this without social media? Because yeah, there's, there's obviously the big picture. So the that's kind of what I, where I wanna start. I, I feel like. There's maybe some movements starting together with my humane marketing revolution. Maybe there's a movement also away from social media. Yeah. What do you see? What do you hear in the grapes? What's going on? Viv: Yeah. So I think you become more aware don't you have things are movements when you, you kind of embrace that yourself. Mm-hmm . So for me, obviously, when I, I had the idea of, I want to go off social media entirely, right? You start kind of looking around who else is doing this? Am I crazy? you know, but it was great. Cuz the coach I was working with at the time, Greg Fon, he had, he would pivoted away from social media. So I was like, okay. Greg can do it. And then I started looking around and came across [00:08:00] Leon Dawson, you know, who I made 11 million and doesn't use social media now and there's, and, you know, look around, there are so many people coming off, social media. So I kind of was like, okay, there are people moving away, but the big thing was. Can can like younger businesses, newer businesses do it, you know? Cause I was seeing a lot of more established businesses doing it. Mm-hmm , you know, multi billion dollar businesses doing it, you know, makeup brands, perfect brands and, and Tesla and people like that. So I was like that. Mm. So I do think there is, I do think there's a movement is in answer. The short answer is yes. I do think there is a, a movement away from social media. There's a lot, obviously that sits behind that and that the rationale mm-hmm, , I'm very logical. You know, so for me, I like to see a good return on my investment of my time and energy. And I didn't see that coming through social media also on a kind of more intuitive, emotional level. I just didn't like social media. I've never liked social media. And it just never felt [00:09:00] right. And I fell into that trap with, with, with my second business, which was a personal brand photography of really, you know, listening to the experts out, out there who were, were saying, you know, you must use social media and you must be on it all time and you must be responsive and da, da duh. And, you know, I just felt. I felt like I was in like social media prison. Like I just didn't have a choice, you know? And, and I had to do all of this stuff and it felt horrible. But I did it and I built a very successful business, but there was always a part of me that was like, I don't like this. And is there another way. And then when I moved into. You know, very naturally into the, into the coaching world because I'd built a very successful business people saying, how did you do that? I, and what I was, you know, intuitively, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, instinctively, I was. I don't like it. It's not really providing me the return on investment cuz energetically, I didn't feel aligned, you know, with it. So [00:10:00] obviously, you know, if you want to talk about sort of energy and what you put out, you're getting return. I just, wasn't seeing the, the return on investment for me in terms of leads. And I found it was so a big sort of energy drain and that's just not what I wanted to. So yes, I was like, there's gotta be another way. And then I also found my clients were coming to me and I seemed to be attracting these clients who were. I don't like social media. I don't wanna use social media. Is there another way? And at that, that point, I had not gone entirely off social media. I was still using Facebook and Instagram, but I was attracting these people who were like, I don't wanna use social media. Can you help me? And I wasn't putting that out there as a message at all, but obviously energetically, you know, and I'm not a woo person. I'm just gonna say this to everyone out there. I'm not, there is a big, you know, and I say that in the kindest possible way, you know, with affect. I'm not, you know, somebody who has studied and, and a lot of expertise and experience, but I have definitely embraced a lot more. You know, woo. In the sense of really tapping into my intuition, you know, and, and my, [00:11:00] my instincts of what feels good. And, and I really do believe, obviously I was putting out this energy that was saying like social media sucks. It's not the right way to build your business. And I was attracting these people before. And then obviously before I kind of made that decision to a really niche and too. How to market without social media. So that was a very long winded answer. yeah. Yes. There's a movement. Sarah: it's it's all good. It's all good. Then there's so many bits and pieces. And I wanna go back to one that stood out to me where you mentioned, you know, obviously it's easy for the big companies, the, the big corporations, or even the small business owners you mentioned Leon do and Daws. She was on social media before, right? Mm-hmm, , she's built a, an empire on social media. So in a way it's like, oh, well it's easy for them to now say I'm going off social media because if, or, you know, the, the devil's advocate would say, well, they have already built an audience. So it it's, I think it's really relevant that you share.[00:12:00] We have built businesses before social media and kind of look at these cases and then also share your experience saying, well, I built a business now without social media, right. Because it's, it's everywhere. And so we're like, well, Yeah, but it seems like you have to do it in order to get some kind of audience. It's almost like we have to unlearn everything we learned all the business advice and marketing advice. We, we got over the years, Viv: right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, and, and I built my first seven figure business without any social media and yes, I'm that old social media did not exist when that business launched. Right. And it was never somewhere I needed to kind of go you know, Yeah, I just didn't do it then. And you look around. Yeah. As you say, then there's a lot of advice that says you have to use social media because, but we look at that and, you know, I had a great conversation when I had Leone Dawson on my show because she's obviously been in business quite long time now. And when you, you know, when social media media first arrived on Facebook, first appeared, you know, you could put [00:13:00] one post out there. And it would get like 80 to 90% kind of reach and engagement on it. Mm-hmm , which was phenomenal. And year on year, it declined, you know? So you're having to put out more and more content to get any kind of engagement or reach. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of very successful entrepreneurs and business owners out there who obviously. Kind of got on that Bandra and that social media marketing kind of, and took that opportunity that was there, which was great to market using social media at a time when it was very effective. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that's what they're now kind of selling. Sarah: Yeah. And, and they're not telling you that now they have a team of 10 people who constantly create content and do all the social media management Viv: for you for that. And I, and I often wonder, you know, if they were to start a business right now, you know, in 20, 22 or, you know, it, what would they do? Because it would not be, I'm not gonna say any, it was easy for them, but it would, it's very different, you know? [00:14:00] Horizon now in, in the marketing world. And I think it's, you know, you can become so far removed, you know? So when you are so successful, if you're still trying to kind of teach people who are early on, you're not kind of on the ground doing those kind of ground level Strategies. So how can you then be kind of teaching? It just feels really misaligned for me sometimes that, you know Sarah: yeah. It's that cookie cutter approach. Oh, this worked for me. So I'm gonna teach you and make millions of dollars. you know, now that yeah. And it, yeah. There's no guarantee that it's gonna work for all these other people. Viv: Yeah. And I think the big thing for me was always, you know, that it was missing. In all the courses and trainings I did and, you know, everything I invested in that nobody said what feels good to you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that was the one question that was missing until I worked with an amazing coach who was like, what do you want it to feel? Like, what do you want it to look like? And I was like, oh, that's a choice here. Is it permission? Sarah: Yeah. It's just permission giving. Yeah. And I Viv: think, but I think for so many. Business owners. I, [00:15:00] I work with who come to me. They, they don't know, there's no awareness of other approaches to marketing because when we start a business, you know, most people start a business. You know, whether you say you're a therapist or. Or you wanna be a business coach or whatever it is, you know, where have you already kind of been hanging out on a personal level when you maybe were in your corporate career? Mm-hmm on social media. So you kind of like, it's familiar, it's comfortable. So I'm gonna go there instinctively and automatically, and I'm not gonna explore those other options. Yeah, because this feels like something that I could do and it's easy. And everybody says, you know, the noise out there face, you have to be there. you have to be there. And this is gonna be the easiest way to grow your business. And it's just not the case now, you know? Yeah. And there is so much, so much kind of data out there to kind of back this up that says this is not the most effective. Way to build your business now and to grow your audience, you know, and, and what do we know? You know, we need, we need leads. We need an audience, you know, in order to get [00:16:00] clients and customers and doing it through social media, especially organically is not effective. And I was speaking to. And a, a Facebook ads manager last week who was very much working with small businesses. And she said, honestly, I'm, I cannot sell what I do anymore, because I don't believe it's the right thing for small businesses. Because since the iOS changes last year, it's even harder now. And you know, you are, if you wanna spend 10 to 20 pounds per day on ads, You're just not gonna get the results, you know, so she was saying it like instinctively for her and intuitively it just didn't feel right to be selling that. And so she's gonna come on the podcast and talk about that to people now that actually even the pay to play, you know, cause I've always said, you know, if you wanna do it, it's pay to play. But actually. It's paid to play. If you've got a lot of money to invest and a lot, you know, a lot of money to invest in it. And also you have many other strategies supporting it. You know, you think about the big businesses out there. They are not just pushing out [00:17:00] paid ads. Now they are looking to other, other means of bringing in leads. Sarah: Yeah. Wow. Such a good example of a humane marketer and, and often you know, the way you come to humane marketing it is by kind of. Tuning into your integrity and saying, can I still do this? You know, and for some people it might still work. She might still get clients and get paid, right? Yeah. But she can't sleep at night because she's like this, I know this is not working for my clients. They're just paying too much for the results that they're getting. And, and I just saw stat also someone sharing on, on. Because that's kind of my turf, where, where I hang out in with LinkedIn ads, 90%, 97% of people don't click on the page that you want them to click on. So they never click over to your landing page. Wow. So the, this ad guy was saying the, the, the new way of looking at ads is kind of like looking at them as billboards.[00:18:00] So you engage with the O audience that. Already there in your network, you don't send them somewhere else and then try to sell them something there. Right? Yeah. That doesn't mean we make our content all look like ads, but we, you know, we engage differently. But, but yeah, like you pay tons and tons of money for these ads and they don't convert because nobody actually clicks on them anymore. Viv: Yeah. It's you know, and, and it it's out there. The data, you know, the return on investment. It's it's, it's, it's low. It is low. Yeah. It's low, you know, and again, you've gotta have a lot of money and you want to have an ads manager because there's so many changes with algorithms and everything, you know, you could spend days just doing that. Oh yeah. And you know, what's working this month might not work next month. So, you know, ads are a minefield of the, you know, minefield of their own. If you want to do that, but yeah, organically, I, I think there's just a whole reframing that I say to people, like, if you. For example, Facebook groups, because there is a big thing, you know, the [00:19:00] community aspect that, that, that people love with Facebook groups. But, but what's happening is a lot of people are hanging out on, on Facebook and Instagram and places and trying to attract people into, into those kind of groups and communities. And that's really difficult. So I say to people look outside of social media, how can you bring people in to your world, into your email list first and foremost, cuz that's your valuable asset and. If you want them to come hang out with you, sign, post them from your emails, come hang out with me on Instagram or Facebook group or whatever, but stop trying to build your audience like in, you know, on these social media platforms, build it, you know? Via an email list, as they say, cuz that is, you know, the gold, that's the pot of gold in your business. And then direct them if that's what you want, because then they're gonna see more of you, you know, they're gonna see your emails more than they're gonna see that content. And that's a much better way to kind of bring people in. And you know, you dunno what's gonna happen. You don't own social media. You know, we all know that. Yeah. I missed the blackout last year cuz it didn't affect me. But obviously I [00:20:00] woke up to, you know, lots of emails. We kind of didn't have social media have an email list, blah, blah, blah. You know, you don't own this. Yeah. And we're well aware of that. So I just say kind of flip your whole approach to how you are using social media, if you do want to keep using social media. Yeah. So that you are not kind of, so, so kind of. In that world. I think that's the problem. We need to look outside and expand our, our vision beyond social media. And I, I think at the moment, a lot of people are kind of stuck and, and to that tunnel vision, that this is the only way. Yeah. Sarah: And, and I just wanna add, I'm kind of allergic to this term community on, you know, Facebook when it's. It's not actually a community. It's more an audience for yeah. The guru to, you know, find clients. Yes. And, and, and it's a misuse, in my opinion of the word community, cuz a community is, you know, interconnected. It's not just connected to the guru who wants to sell to Viv: use. Yes. So a whole different story. I absolutely [00:21:00] agree. And I've been reading the book you are invited by John Levy. Mm-hmm it's a great book and it talks about how. We need like actual connection with people like human connection, you know, and, and how you, we have, you know, we, we, we know more people in this digital era, you know, when we have connections, but we're not really connected and we're so much more isolated. And I think this comes with this, this, this misconception of community, I'm part of a community, but actually. True communi very lonely. Yes. Very, yeah. Very isolating and lonely. So I, I, I absolutely agree with you on that. There's a whole episode just on, just on that. on that idea. Yeah, absolutely. So Sarah: people are probably just, you know, listening nodding saying yes, yes, yes. But they will also wanna know, well, okay. If not social media, then what, okay. We heard you say, you know, we need an email list, but how do we get people on this email list? It's kind of. Probably feels like the chicken and the egg, so yeah. So yeah, [00:22:00] take us kind of through some pragmatic things on how to yeah. Get more people on your email list because we still want to grow an audience that we can send these emails Viv: to. Absolutely. And this is the big thing that I mentioned, obviously that the Facebook and, and social media outage last year, and, you know, I'm gonna get on my soapbox for just a moment to say the thing that really railed me, waking up to those emails the next day was, you know, you need to have an email list. You don't own social media and I'm like, we're not idiots. We all know this, but not one person offered the how, how do you build an email list? So I was like, do they even know the answer to this beyond social media? Cuz these were a lot of obviously like social media experts out there, experts. So. For me, I'm very much about the, the how and the practicality. There is no secret here, you know, and I, I've obviously there's a guide that I've shared with you, given you the link for 21 ways. My favorite 21 ways to market without social media, there are hundreds. [00:23:00] Sarah: Yeah. And there's a great video on your website as well on the homepage where you take us through some Viv: of these things. So, yeah, absolutely. And you know, and I, and I've offered like 21 ways for, for kind of people who are more service based business is cuz that's my area. Expertise mm-hmm but you know, project based businesses, there are additional ways as well. Anyway, so your Sarah: favorite. Three ways three, Viv: my favorite three ways again, for, for me personally. And I just want you guys who are listening to take this, you know, don't just try and replicate me because I have a, my, you know, there are different marketing archetypes. So what works for me may not work for you. Depends on your business. Depends on who you are. And again, there's a whole, all that kind of. Quiz and things you can do there to figure out who that is what that is. So for me, ways, I best way for me to grow my list. I collaborate in bundles. They're really great for me because I get to connect with other people. I build partnerships. So bundles for anyone out there, what is a bundle you're kind of going, Hey, I dunno what that is. So this is where maybe. 20 businesses come together and they [00:24:00] put something in there. So a free course, a free ebook or something that they would normally charge for. And they all put some offering into, to this, this bundle bag basket, you know, virtual bag. And then what happens is everybody shares this with their own email list. So you add value, you give a lot of value to your own audience saying, Hey, these are other things that could be really useful. And only obviously do bundles that, that, that have kind of collaborations and contributions from people who, who are gonna help add value to your audience. Yeah. And so, you know, you are sharing your offering and getting like your, you know, eyes on, on who you are and what you do. You know, to 20 other people's audiences and it's, so is Sarah: this like a course or some kind of mini program that you're Viv: offering could be a course mini program. Ebook could be templates, you know, could be like the 20 emails you wanna send when you're launching something, whatever it might be. [00:25:00] So it's a great way to kind of look at that. So for me, bundle's worked really, really Sarah: well. And are you usually the one organizing these bundles or once you organize one, then you. Kind of know the people and you get invited. How, how do you get started with Viv: bundles? Yeah. So you could organize a bundle. I did a, a bundle last year. But you can just contribute to bundles. You don't have to ever run your own if you don't want to. And the great thing is kind of, once you get. And discover one. And how do you find them? Google, Google bundles, asking your networks, look around, check out emails. People are normally talking about them. So kind of find out who's run one. You'll have missed it, probably, you know, in terms of getting in that one, but getting in touch with them, like look at who else was contributing because most people kind of are on the circuit doing the rounds, you know? So if that's a strategy that works you'll find people will generally be kind of contributing. Right in that same network and it opens up a lot of connections for you, you know, in terms of you can then collaborate and, and partner with people. One on [00:26:00] one, you can look at joint ventures. So it opens up many opportunities. If, if you make the effort, because they're quite anonymous in the, the sense that you can just put your thing in and never speak to another person who's in that bundle. So, you know, utilize it either reach out to people, kind of say, Hey, we're both in the same bundle. I really like what you do think we've got some crossover, you know, so take it that step further. Some people will, some, some bundle organizers will run like a zoom kind of session where you can all get to kind of connect and meet and greet, which is really nice to actually. Kind of hear from people and really say like, I agree. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I always recommend that when I'm on a summit, I'm like, let's connect with each other for the summit speakers, you know, how come, how come people forget that part. It's such an important part because yeah. We are also. Of wanting to connect with peers and like-minded people. So, yeah. I agree with you. It's so great to, to have that [00:27:00] for bundles or summits or conferences as well. Yeah. Viv: Because you know, you get to hear more about the business and what, what it is they do, which, you know, when you kind of just see one offering in a bundle, you don't get the whole picture of that business. So I think it's. Such a great way to, to do that. So if you are gonna run a bundle, I would highly recommend you do a zoom session where you can, you know, it doesn't have to be long, 30, 40 minutes where people can kind of just go round hot seat, introduce themselves. So bundles bundles are like a great, and the reason I like them is you get a really. Great return on your investment. You can create one asset. So one mini course, one, you know ebook, whatever it is, and you can use it in many different bundles. So you do that piece of work once and you get to repurpose it. And that's a really great thing, you know, because we wanna, we don't wanna add and create lots of extra work for ourselves. Yeah. And I would say if you wanna kind of go down that bundle route and that's gonna be a core strategy, have a few different offerings and you can just rotate them for different bundle. Just, just a follow Sarah: up question, like in terms of the [00:28:00] offering, what have you seen kind of the value? Is this something that's worth 50 bucks or 500 bucks or, or Viv: more? It entirely depends on the bundle. And I don't think the value is the big pull for people. I don't think people kind of go, oh, this would cost me $500. I'm gonna go for that. It's really. Understanding who it's targeted at the audience mm-hmm and what are their biggest struggles? And this is where I have seen people say, well, I did a bundle and I didn't get any signups out and I Sarah: didn't create, so it was the wrong offer or the wrong Viv: audience, or yeah. Or people downloaded it because they were kind of just going through the whole thing, downloading everything, and then they didn't get any leads from it. You know, if, if it's, if it's right and you have pitched it right, you should, you know, People joining your mailing list, you should get people then booking in to have like calls or conversations, or if you wanna do trick wire office, you should be, you know, that next step should happen. And that's the process to kind of really look at. So, yeah. Bundles, I like for me works for me. And [00:29:00] then speaking, I love kind of guessing on people's podcasts and in, in kind of people's masterminds, really adding like value. And as you know, I can talk for a long time on my topic. So yeah, I really like to go in and guess speak and I think that adds a different level of connection as well, to, to bundles. So bundles you've gotta out for me. I believe you've got a longer nurture. Kind of journey for those people that are coming in. Whereas when you go in and guest speak I think that's fast tracked as well. Hugely because obviously, you know, there's trust imparted there's so there's so much that comes with that. So for me, guest speaking, I am really energized by having two-way conversations. And this is interesting cuz I, you know, my archetype is, is a salesperson or a persuader mm-hmm , it's a, is a slightly nicer way of putting, putting it. I think. Kind of salesperson brings with it, not always the best, the best vibes. So, yeah. For me, It would, you know, for a persuader architect, people would always say, well, video's great for you, but I hated [00:30:00] video. I hated doing things like on my own because there was, wasn't the two way like exchange and the, that energy. So I found it really difficult. Whereas if I'm doing things like that, you know, now we're having a conversation video. I just, it works so differently for me. It's a great way to do that. So yeah, I like that kind of interaction. I like to speak to people. And that's, I think my social media wasn't great for me. It just didn't feel like I was speaking to. Yeah, what's the third one. Oh, sorry. That was number two. Yeah. Sarah: Forgot. I'm like waiting baby. wait, Viv: waiting, waiting, waiting. And the third one for growing audiences for me is is, is podcast podcasting. You know, so for me, I have my own podcast and I love that and kind of putting that out there. And it's an interesting one because it works in two ways. And as I say, it works for me, for my archetype. It works in terms of it can bring in new audiences, but it's also fantastic for adding value and nurturing my existing audiences. So it works. It's like a double whammy. So you think, if you think about like, what is your intention when [00:31:00] you're using social media and you're trying to kind of give people value and stuff, but it allows an opportunity to go so much deeper than kind of like the odd post. That's something that that's really effective. And the amount of people I get on calls with who wanna work with me and they say, oh, I've been listening to your podcast. You know? And I love it when people message, they go and I'm in California and I listen to your podcast and you know, I love it. And, and this is great, cuz you kind of seen that, that maybe people aren't, haven't been ready to work with you, but they've been getting this value from you and kind of understanding how that works in your, your marketing process is really effective. So you can use it as a, a, a kind of lead generator and then as a nurture. Sort of a converter as well. Sarah: Yeah. It, it totally, it it's like in humane marketing, we, we're all about bringing more of you to your marketing and, and that's what you do in your podcast. You know, people really get to know you, your values, your worldview what you stand for. Because you're not just in promotion mode all the time. I feel like on social media, a lot of people are kind of going [00:32:00] into promotion mode, right? Yeah. Where on social media? Sorry on podcast. You, you are not, we're not in promotion mode. We're, we're not promoting anything. We're just having a, a deep conversation. And so that's when I feel like it's more real. Yeah. I mean, there's also podcasts where I feel like, wow, okay. That's not real. Like, they're still like, kind of like, I wanna just kind of scratch, you know, the surface and go show me your real human being. Yeah. Usually, yeah. You can tell, okay. This feels like, oh, I'm really speaking to live. And that's how she is in real life as well, you know? Viv: Yeah. And I think this is the beauty as well. When you come away from social media, you know, if you think about how you utilize social media, now it's so much is. Quantity kind of content creation approach. You just need to push out content in the hope that it's gonna get seen multiple times a day to have any chance of being seen by other people that are in, in your world. Whereas I [00:33:00] think when we come away from social media, We start serving with content that goes so much deeper, whether that's podcasts, blogs, maybe YouTube power, two videos, you know, whatever that is, you get the opportunity to go so much deeper. And I think that's where the true value lies. You know, and you can give everything away, you know, and I don't hold back because at the end of the day, people come speak, cuz they're like, I still need help. Like implementing this. I need accountability. I need, you know, I just need support. I need someone to really kind of help guide. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. I don't think I think it's actually there it's the opposite effect. If you share more. People are like, oh wow. Now I can really see what, what it would be like to work with her instead of oh, you know, just gimme your top three tips and, and, and then don't go into details that that's yeah, just kind of Viv: superficial. Yeah. But the big thing is, you know, just to kind of, sort of bring together, you know, they, they were my sort of top three ways. But the fastest way to grow your audience [00:34:00] off social media. Is to, to leverage, to borrow audiences. You know, there are three ways that you can grow an audience. You can buy an audience which we've touched on today. You can build an audience. So building like a, a Facebook group, a community. And then also, you know, blog in what we kind of building an audience that way. Or you can borrow an audience, so borrowing other people's audiences, you know, and I think sometimes people think, oh, that's not great, but you know, borrowing audiences is a great way because actually you are giving value. You're giving value that, that. That audience, you know, maybe are not getting from the person who's kind of leading that community known as a hub, you know, so actually bringing that outside expertise that can really serve deeper and that, you know, that is that that's giving you are giving. So you're not kind of taking away saying, well, I'm borrowing and I'm getting people signing up to my list and taking away you are not, you are adding value and, and that's brilliant if people can resonate with what you, you offer and you. Your unique way of [00:35:00] delivery, then that's a fantastic thing, you know? So, so borrowing, you know, audiences and, and maybe borrowings, not the best term, because I think it brings maybe again, like negative kind of connotations for people. But, but that is fundamentally like the best way, the fastest way to grow your audience. Sarah: To, to us what we use. One of the, the piece of the humane marketing mandala is partnership. And to me, it's partnering, you know, it Viv: is partnering, borrowing is partner Sarah: partnering with other entrepreneurs and realizing that your clients gain something. I gain something because I'm exposing my clients to an expertise that I don't have. Yeah. And so really it really is partnering and, and I think we need to find our way back to that. We, you know, it's part of the, this isolation that we kind of learned over the last 20 years, it's like everybody on their own. No. Why, why, you know, we're aligned, our values are aligned. Why not help each other grow our Viv: businesses? Yeah, absolutely. And you know, if you think [00:36:00] back to, to how. We survived back, you know, when we were like Neanderthals and, you know, paleolithic man and everything, you know, and we were at risk of being eaten by saber tooth tiger, you know, that community. Right. You know, and that partnering, you know, was an integral part of our survival. And I think that's why we struggle. So much emotionally and mentally with this isolation now, because we need, we, you know, we need that as human beings. And I think this whole thing with partnerships is just great because you get to connect with people, you know, you get to hop on a zoom and maybe you're not in the same room physically with somebody, but, you know, having that face to face connection and having that one-on-one interaction is so much more powerful, you know, and, and opens up so many more opportunities because we are all connected. Know that one person is. To so many other people and has their own networks and communities that potentially, you know, they can put you in touch with. So it's, it's, it's just a big kind of. Yeah, yeah. Sarah: [00:37:00] Right way. I started not offering a replay for my workshops or, you know, webinars, but to me they're really workshops because they're participated in. Yes. And you know, I do, every time I send it out, I do get one or two nasty emails for, for not offering a replay again, it's because we. Gotten so trained to be spoon fed, spooned more and more content and more and more information that people just sign up to 20 webinars and just get the content and, and then feel even more anxious and overloaded. So I'm like we need to move away from that. And. Like you said, have real human connections, get onto a zoom call where there's other people you don't know and be in community with these people. So I, I build in a break where we say, let's be human with each other and let's pause and let's see each other. You know, fellow humans going through this experience of being an entrepreneur that that's not easy. Yeah. But it's an [00:38:00] unlearning. It's a lot of unlearning. Yeah, Viv: we're such, I mean, like you say, we, you know, we're a society where everything's on demand, you know, we get, yeah. We get stimulation. We get you know, social what's the word I'm looking for? Sorry. Validation social. We get social validation, you know, for instant gratification from checking social media, you know, Amazon prime. We can have things instantly, you know, on demand TV. Everything's there, you know, we're not used to having to wait as well. Is, is another big, big aspect aspect of that, you know? And yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy times. It's, you know, we are overstimulated. I think someone said to me that. In the course of, is it a day or an hour? Now we have more stimulation than caveman would've had within their entire life. Wow. And that's scary. And I think Neil Patel if you dunno who Neil Patel is like big or like he, he, he created Uber suggests, which is great, kind of online SEO search tool and things. And. He put a, I think it was, I think it was Neotel [00:39:00] that talked about the attention span of a goldfish, I think is nine seconds. And I think in 2016 or 17, like the human, like attention span was something like 13 seconds. And now it's shorter in 2022, then that of a goldfish. That is scary. Yeah. And that has come from this like constant, like like I think this, this on demand society and having this constant stimulation. Yeah. Sarah: So where do we go from here? Like, you know, where do you see, how do you see social media evolving over the next. Let's just say five years. I don't think we can even plan 10 years ahead anymore. So let's just see two to five years. How do you see it evolving since there is this movement away from it? I guess? Oh, well Viv: I think there will still be so many people who continue to use it because they. Believe it's the only way, especially people early on in their journey. So I think they will be drawn to it again, as for the reasons I [00:40:00] cited, you know, I use it socially. It's addictive, you know, first and foremost, we have to remember. People are not gonna come away because it's, it is an addiction. Mm-hmm . And so it's still gonna, it's still gonna be massively prominent. I don't think social media is ever going to go away and I don't necessarily think, you know, it, it needs to, for lots of people, it's a great way, you know, to stay connected with, with friends and family, maybe. But from a business perspective, I think you are gonna see a lot more people. After sort of six to 12 months in business, kind of saying this isn't working this is not giving me, you know, the clients I'm not, not getting the leads and clients and I need to, I need another way. Yeah. And I think we'll start seeing more people moving away from social media as that core kind of approach and strategy. Mm. Sarah: Yeah. And, and like you said, it it's a good tool, I guess, to stay in touch with family and friends. And so for that we'll keep using [00:41:00] it. But yeah, I agree with you. There's probably gonna be, and it's a good thing. It's like the, it's almost like you have to go through it, you know, to see, oh, this is not working for me. Yeah, if we all knew what was working right from the start Life would be too easy. so it's like I have to go through some motions and, and see, okay, this is not working for me. Yeah. Also to learn about yourself, as we said, it's a lot, the entrepreneurial journey is a lot about learning out. Learning to find out what works for you. And so maybe we just need to first learn, okay, this is not Viv: working for me. Yeah. What feels good when, you know, and I think again, thinking about the people that come to me, they kind of say, I just, I don't like it. It doesn't feel good. And then, and I don't do it, you know? So this is the other thing I'm not consistent. So I just, it just, it's not working. Sarah: Why give. All together then feel shame about not doing it, right? Yeah. That's another piece. The Viv: shame. Yeah. So the shame is massive. Yeah. [00:42:00] That people feel and like this guilt and why, and, and you know, why am I not doing it? And I've learned all the techniques and strategies, but you know, this, this shame. Yeah. Massive, massive. Sarah: This is so good. Thank you so much. Viv. I, I wanna come full circle, but. Share again, first of all, where people can find your report with the 21 ways where Viv: they can connect with you. It's very easy. It's www.vivguide.com/ 21. That's the number two, one ways. W a Y S that's it. So yeah, Viv guide.com/ 21 ways. And you can get your, your free guide there. You can hear more from me on my podcast marketing without social media and, and, you know, I, I I've, this I've shared some real deep dives recently into kind of bundles. If that's something that's of interest we've got summits coming up in. Couple of weeks. So, you know, all the different kind of approaches that I talk about within that guide, we do a lot kind of deep dives about how effective they are, you know, [00:43:00] the, the pros and cons. So you can kind of explore and get an insight into maybe what feels right for you before you kind of tackle things and, and invest in kind of learning how to do things. Sarah: Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing those resources. And it's, it's, it's almost funny. Like, you know, when I usually ask, where can people find you it's like this long list of, you know, on Instagram, I'm this on Twitter? I'm this? You're like, no, there's my website. And that's where we connect. Viv: Yeah. Connect with me on email, say hi. And, you know, I always say, if you wanna just email me, you know, just drop me an email. Hello, Viv guy.com. And I love that, you know, Truly do reply personally, to every email that comes through to my inbox. In the first instance from everybody, because I like saying hi, you know, we're, we're people we wanna connect. And I like to hear what you do. So tell me, share with me your story. Sarah: Nice. Thank you so much. I have one last question. Sure. What are you grateful for today or this week? Viv: Oh, I've done [00:44:00] my gratitude diary this morning. I was really grateful that my children both slept all night last night in their own beds because they have not been sleeping well over the last couple of weeks, I've saying to Sarah they've been ill. So I was really grateful to. Good sleep last night to help help me kind of prepare for today. And that seems really selfish, but it's real. Oh, Sarah: about it. It's so important. Like if we're not taken care of, then we can't take care of others, first of all, and who's gonna do our Viv: business. Exactly. And I had, you know, my, my eldest is not quite six yet. She's still five. We've had nearly six years of no sleep. So you know, they were never great sleepers. My, well, my eldest has never been a great sleeper, so she she's, she is a lot better now. So I'm always grateful when they sleep all night. Sarah: yeah, hang in there. Viv: it's fine. It's you know, and I like that they come and they feel comfortable coming to get me and say, I just need a, you know, my youngest style say why you out open? She goes, I just need a mama. At three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, I can't send you [00:45:00] away. Can I, you know, have if you need so, yeah, that's my gratitude. Sarah: Thank you so much for being on the humane marketing Viv: show. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you everybody.[00:46:00]

Today I'm talking to Viv Guy about growing your business without social media. Viv is a business coach, mentor, strategist, and the host of the podcast Marketing Without Social Media. Viv is passionate about helping service-based business owners create recurring 5k+ months, WITHOUT social media (bye-bye hamster wheel of content!), having created her first successful biz in her 20s without it. The best bit; doing it all in just 20 hours a week! In this episode, you'll learn about growing your business without social media as well as... Why Viv thinks there's a growing interest in ditching Social Media If not Social Media, then what? Viv's ideas to grow your business without it Her 3 favorite ways of growing without social How to get traffic to our free offers to get people on to our email list Advantages of email vs. Social Media How Viv thinks Social Media will evolve in the next 5 year And so much more Viv's Resources Viv's Website Viv's Podcast: Marketing Without Social Media Viv's Free Guide: 21 Ways to Get Clients Off Social Media Sarah's Resources Watch this episode on Youtube (FREE) Sarah's One Page Marketing Plan (FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter (FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto (FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book The Humane Marketing Circle Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course Podcast Show Notes We use Descript to edit our episodes and it's fantastic! Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com Thanks for listening! After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast? The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers - a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact. — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Sarah: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] Hey Viv. So good to speak to you today. I look forward to our, I'm gonna just let in the listeners that were doing a double episode. So we're, we're recording first for my show. And then I'm gonna be recording one for your show. So yay. We get to hang out all morning. So welcome to the humane marketing podcast with, so Viv: I'm excited to have. Thanks, sir. I'm so, so happy to be here. And one a morning, we've got how exciting is it's awesome. I think, you know, we're gonna come away from this, like bursting at the seams. I think there's so much energy and value that we take Sarah: exactly. And all these new ideas about social media and marketing and all of that. So, Viv: yeah, I'm [00:07:00] really excited. Sarah: Cool. Well, let's dive right in. I, I, I have some big picture questions for you, but then also some nitty gritty, like, you know, how do we do this without social media? Because yeah, there's, there's obviously the big picture. So the that's kind of what I, where I wanna start. I, I feel like. There's maybe some movements starting together with my humane marketing revolution. Maybe there's a movement also away from social media. Yeah. What do you see? What do you hear in the grapes? What's going on? Viv: Yeah. So I think you become more aware don't you have things are movements when you, you kind of embrace that yourself. Mm-hmm . So for me, obviously, when I, I had the idea of, I want to go off social media entirely, right? You start kind of looking around who else is doing this? Am I crazy? you know, but it was great. Cuz the coach I was working with at the time, Greg Fon, he had, he would pivoted away from social media. So I was like, okay. Greg can do it. And then I started looking around and came across [00:08:00] Leon Dawson, you know, who I made 11 million and doesn't use social media now and there's, and, you know, look around, there are so many people coming off, social media. So I kind of was like, okay, there are people moving away, but the big thing was. Can can like younger businesses, newer businesses do it, you know? Cause I was seeing a lot of more established businesses doing it. Mm-hmm , you know, multi billion dollar businesses doing it, you know, makeup brands, perfect brands and, and Tesla and people like that. So I was like that. Mm. So I do think there is, I do think there's a movement is in answer. The short answer is yes. I do think there is a, a movement away from social media. There's a lot, obviously that sits behind that and that the rationale mm-hmm, , I'm very logical. You know, so for me, I like to see a good return on my investment of my time and energy. And I didn't see that coming through social media also on a kind of more intuitive, emotional level. I just didn't like social media. I've never liked social media. And it just never felt [00:09:00] right. And I fell into that trap with, with, with my second business, which was a personal brand photography of really, you know, listening to the experts out, out there who were, were saying, you know, you must use social media and you must be on it all time and you must be responsive and da, da duh. And, you know, I just felt. I felt like I was in like social media prison. Like I just didn't have a choice, you know? And, and I had to do all of this stuff and it felt horrible. But I did it and I built a very successful business, but there was always a part of me that was like, I don't like this. And is there another way. And then when I moved into. You know, very naturally into the, into the coaching world because I'd built a very successful business people saying, how did you do that? I, and what I was, you know, intuitively, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, instinctively, I was. I don't like it. It's not really providing me the return on investment cuz energetically, I didn't feel aligned, you know, with it. So [00:10:00] obviously, you know, if you want to talk about sort of energy and what you put out, you're getting return. I just, wasn't seeing the, the return on investment for me in terms of leads. And I found it was so a big sort of energy drain and that's just not what I wanted to. So yes, I was like, there's gotta be another way. And then I also found my clients were coming to me and I seemed to be attracting these clients who were. I don't like social media. I don't wanna use social media. Is there another way? And at that, that point, I had not gone entirely off social media. I was still using Facebook and Instagram, but I was attracting these people who were like, I don't wanna use social media. Can you help me? And I wasn't putting that out there as a message at all, but obviously energetically, you know, and I'm not a woo person. I'm just gonna say this to everyone out there. I'm not, there is a big, you know, and I say that in the kindest possible way, you know, with affect. I'm not, you know, somebody who has studied and, and a lot of expertise and experience, but I have definitely embraced a lot more. You know, woo. In the sense of really tapping into my intuition, you know, and, and my, [00:11:00] my instincts of what feels good. And, and I really do believe, obviously I was putting out this energy that was saying like social media sucks. It's not the right way to build your business. And I was attracting these people before. And then obviously before I kind of made that decision to a really niche and too. How to market without social media. So that was a very long winded answer. yeah. Yes. There's a movement. Sarah: it's it's all good. It's all good. Then there's so many bits and pieces. And I wanna go back to one that stood out to me where you mentioned, you know, obviously it's easy for the big companies, the, the big corporations, or even the small business owners you mentioned Leon do and Daws. She was on social media before, right? Mm-hmm, , she's built a, an empire on social media. So in a way it's like, oh, well it's easy for them to now say I'm going off social media because if, or, you know, the, the devil's advocate would say, well, they have already built an audience. So it it's, I think it's really relevant that you share.[00:12:00] We have built businesses before social media and kind of look at these cases and then also share your experience saying, well, I built a business now without social media, right. Because it's, it's everywhere. And so we're like, well, Yeah, but it seems like you have to do it in order to get some kind of audience. It's almost like we have to unlearn everything we learned all the business advice and marketing advice. We, we got over the years, Viv: right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, and, and I built my first seven figure business without any social media and yes, I'm that old social media did not exist when that business launched. Right. And it was never somewhere I needed to kind of go you know, Yeah, I just didn't do it then. And you look around. Yeah. As you say, then there's a lot of advice that says you have to use social media because, but we look at that and, you know, I had a great conversation when I had Leone Dawson on my show because she's obviously been in business quite long time now. And when you, you know, when social media media first arrived on Facebook, first appeared, you know, you could put [00:13:00] one post out there. And it would get like 80 to 90% kind of reach and engagement on it. Mm-hmm , which was phenomenal. And year on year, it declined, you know? So you're having to put out more and more content to get any kind of engagement or reach. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of very successful entrepreneurs and business owners out there who obviously. Kind of got on that Bandra and that social media marketing kind of, and took that opportunity that was there, which was great to market using social media at a time when it was very effective. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that's what they're now kind of selling. Sarah: Yeah. And, and they're not telling you that now they have a team of 10 people who constantly create content and do all the social media management Viv: for you for that. And I, and I often wonder, you know, if they were to start a business right now, you know, in 20, 22 or, you know, it, what would they do? Because it would not be, I'm not gonna say any, it was easy for them, but it would, it's very different, you know? [00:14:00] Horizon now in, in the marketing world. And I think it's, you know, you can become so far removed, you know? So when you are so successful, if you're still trying to kind of teach people who are early on, you're not kind of on the ground doing those kind of ground level Strategies. So how can you then be kind of teaching? It just feels really misaligned for me sometimes that, you know Sarah: yeah. It's that cookie cutter approach. Oh, this worked for me. So I'm gonna teach you and make millions of dollars. you know, now that yeah. And it, yeah. There's no guarantee that it's gonna work for all these other people. Viv: Yeah. And I think the big thing for me was always, you know, that it was missing. In all the courses and trainings I did and, you know, everything I invested in that nobody said what feels good to you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that was the one question that was missing until I worked with an amazing coach who was like, what do you want it to feel? Like, what do you want it to look like? And I was like, oh, that's a choice here. Is it permission? Sarah: Yeah. It's just permission giving. Yeah. And I Viv: think, but I think for so many. Business owners. I, [00:15:00] I work with who come to me. They, they don't know, there's no awareness of other approaches to marketing because when we start a business, you know, most people start a business. You know, whether you say you're a therapist or. Or you wanna be a business coach or whatever it is, you know, where have you already kind of been hanging out on a personal level when you maybe were in your corporate career? Mm-hmm on social media. So you kind of like, it's familiar, it's comfortable. So I'm gonna go there instinctively and automatically, and I'm not gonna explore those other options. Yeah, because this feels like something that I could do and it's easy. And everybody says, you know, the noise out there face, you have to be there. you have to be there. And this is gonna be the easiest way to grow your business. And it's just not the case now, you know? Yeah. And there is so much, so much kind of data out there to kind of back this up that says this is not the most effective. Way to build your business now and to grow your audience, you know, and, and what do we know? You know, we need, we need leads. We need an audience, you know, in order to get [00:16:00] clients and customers and doing it through social media, especially organically is not effective. And I was speaking to. And a, a Facebook ads manager last week who was very much working with small businesses. And she said, honestly, I'm, I cannot sell what I do anymore, because I don't believe it's the right thing for small businesses. Because since the iOS changes last year, it's even harder now. And you know, you are, if you wanna spend 10 to 20 pounds per day on ads, You're just not gonna get the results, you know, so she was saying it like instinctively for her and intuitively it just didn't feel right to be selling that. And so she's gonna come on the podcast and talk about that to people now that actually even the pay to play, you know, cause I've always said, you know, if you wanna do it, it's pay to play. But actually. It's paid to play. If you've got a lot of money to invest and a lot, you know, a lot of money to invest in it. And also you have many other strategies supporting it. You know, you think about the big businesses out there. They are not just pushing out [00:17:00] paid ads. Now they are looking to other, other means of bringing in leads. Sarah: Yeah. Wow. Such a good example of a humane marketer and, and often you know, the way you come to humane marketing it is by kind of. Tuning into your integrity and saying, can I still do this? You know, and for some people it might still work. She might still get clients and get paid, right? Yeah. But she can't sleep at night because she's like this, I know this is not working for my clients. They're just paying too much for the results that they're getting. And, and I just saw stat also someone sharing on, on. Because that's kind of my turf, where, where I hang out in with LinkedIn ads, 90%, 97% of people don't click on the page that you want them to click on. So they never click over to your landing page. Wow. So the, this ad guy was saying the, the, the new way of looking at ads is kind of like looking at them as billboards.[00:18:00] So you engage with the O audience that. Already there in your network, you don't send them somewhere else and then try to sell them something there. Right? Yeah. That doesn't mean we make our content all look like ads, but we, you know, we engage differently. But, but yeah, like you pay tons and tons of money for these ads and they don't convert because nobody actually clicks on them anymore. Viv: Yeah. It's you know, and, and it it's out there. The data, you know, the return on investment. It's it's, it's, it's low. It is low. Yeah. It's low, you know, and again, you've gotta have a lot of money and you want to have an ads manager because there's so many changes with algorithms and everything, you know, you could spend days just doing that. Oh yeah. And you know, what's working this month might not work next month. So, you know, ads are a minefield of the, you know, minefield of their own. If you want to do that, but yeah, organically, I, I think there's just a whole reframing that I say to people, like, if you. For example, Facebook groups, because there is a big thing, you know, the [00:19:00] community aspect that, that, that people love with Facebook groups. But, but what's happening is a lot of people are hanging out on, on Facebook and Instagram and places and trying to attract people into, into those kind of groups and communities. And that's really difficult. So I say to people look outside of social media, how can you bring people in to your world, into your email list first and foremost, cuz that's your valuable asset and. If you want them to come hang out with you, sign, post them from your emails, come hang out with me on Instagram or Facebook group or whatever, but stop trying to build your audience like in, you know, on these social media platforms, build it, you know? Via an email list, as they say, cuz that is, you know, the gold, that's the pot of gold in your business. And then direct them if that's what you want, because then they're gonna see more of you, you know, they're gonna see your emails more than they're gonna see that content. And that's a much better way to kind of bring people in. And you know, you dunno what's gonna happen. You don't own social media. You know, we all know that. Yeah. I missed the blackout last year cuz it didn't affect me. But obviously I [00:20:00] woke up to, you know, lots of emails. We kind of didn't have social media have an email list, blah, blah, blah. You know, you don't own this. Yeah. And we're well aware of that. So I just say kind of flip your whole approach to how you are using social media, if you do want to keep using social media. Yeah. So that you are not kind of, so, so kind of. In that world. I think that's the problem. We need to look outside and expand our, our vision beyond social media. And I, I think at the moment, a lot of people are kind of stuck and, and to that tunnel vision, that this is the only way. Yeah. Sarah: And, and I just wanna add, I'm kind of allergic to this term community on, you know, Facebook when it's. It's not actually a community. It's more an audience for yeah. The guru to, you know, find clients. Yes. And, and, and it's a misuse, in my opinion of the word community, cuz a community is, you know, interconnected. It's not just connected to the guru who wants to sell to Viv: use. Yes. So a whole different story. I absolutely [00:21:00] agree. And I've been reading the book you are invited by John Levy. Mm-hmm it's a great book and it talks about how. We need like actual connection with people like human connection, you know, and, and how you, we have, you know, we, we, we know more people in this digital era, you know, when we have connections, but we're not really connected and we're so much more isolated. And I think this comes with this, this, this misconception of community, I'm part of a community, but actually. True communi very lonely. Yes. Very, yeah. Very isolating and lonely. So I, I, I absolutely agree with you on that. There's a whole episode just on, just on that. on that idea. Yeah, absolutely. So Sarah: people are probably just, you know, listening nodding saying yes, yes, yes. But they will also wanna know, well, okay. If not social media, then what, okay. We heard you say, you know, we need an email list, but how do we get people on this email list? It's kind of. Probably feels like the chicken and the egg, so yeah. So yeah, [00:22:00] take us kind of through some pragmatic things on how to yeah. Get more people on your email list because we still want to grow an audience that we can send these emails Viv: to. Absolutely. And this is the big thing that I mentioned, obviously that the Facebook and, and social media outage last year, and, you know, I'm gonna get on my soapbox for just a moment to say the thing that really railed me, waking up to those emails the next day was, you know, you need to have an email list. You don't own social media and I'm like, we're not idiots. We all know this, but not one person offered the how, how do you build an email list? So I was like, do they even know the answer to this beyond social media? Cuz these were a lot of obviously like social media experts out there, experts. So. For me, I'm very much about the, the how and the practicality. There is no secret here, you know, and I, I've obviously there's a guide that I've shared with you, given you the link for 21 ways. My favorite 21 ways to market without social media, there are hundreds. [00:23:00] Sarah: Yeah. And there's a great video on your website as well on the homepage where you take us through some Viv: of these things. So, yeah, absolutely. And you know, and I, and I've offered like 21 ways for, for kind of people who are more service based business is cuz that's my area. Expertise mm-hmm but you know, project based businesses, there are additional ways as well. Anyway, so your Sarah: favorite. Three ways three, Viv: my favorite three ways again, for, for me personally. And I just want you guys who are listening to take this, you know, don't just try and replicate me because I have a, my, you know, there are different marketing archetypes. So what works for me may not work for you. Depends on your business. Depends on who you are. And again, there's a whole, all that kind of. Quiz and things you can do there to figure out who that is what that is. So for me, ways, I best way for me to grow my list. I collaborate in bundles. They're really great for me because I get to connect with other people. I build partnerships. So bundles for anyone out there, what is a bundle you're kind of going, Hey, I dunno what that is. So this is where maybe. 20 businesses come together and they [00:24:00] put something in there. So a free course, a free ebook or something that they would normally charge for. And they all put some offering into, to this, this bundle bag basket, you know, virtual bag. And then what happens is everybody shares this with their own email list. So you add value, you give a lot of value to your own audience saying, Hey, these are other things that could be really useful. And only obviously do bundles that, that, that have kind of collaborations and contributions from people who, who are gonna help add value to your audience. Yeah. And so, you know, you are sharing your offering and getting like your, you know, eyes on, on who you are and what you do. You know, to 20 other people's audiences and it's, so is Sarah: this like a course or some kind of mini program that you're Viv: offering could be a course mini program. Ebook could be templates, you know, could be like the 20 emails you wanna send when you're launching something, whatever it might be. [00:25:00] So it's a great way to kind of look at that. So for me, bundle's worked really, really Sarah: well. And are you usually the one organizing these bundles or once you organize one, then you. Kind of know the people and you get invited. How, how do you get started with Viv: bundles? Yeah. So you could organize a bundle. I did a, a bundle last year. But you can just contribute to bundles. You don't have to ever run your own if you don't want to. And the great thing is kind of, once you get. And discover one. And how do you find them? Google, Google bundles, asking your networks, look around, check out emails. People are normally talking about them. So kind of find out who's run one. You'll have missed it, probably, you know, in terms of getting in that one, but getting in touch with them, like look at who else was contributing because most people kind of are on the circuit doing the rounds, you know? So if that's a strategy that works you'll find people will generally be kind of contributing. Right in that same network and it opens up a lot of connections for you, you know, in terms of you can then collaborate and, and partner with people. One on [00:26:00] one, you can look at joint ventures. So it opens up many opportunities. If, if you make the effort, because they're quite anonymous in the, the sense that you can just put your thing in and never speak to another person who's in that bundle. So, you know, utilize it either reach out to people, kind of say, Hey, we're both in the same bundle. I really like what you do think we've got some crossover, you know, so take it that step further. Some people will, some, some bundle organizers will run like a zoom kind of session where you can all get to kind of connect and meet and greet, which is really nice to actually. Kind of hear from people and really say like, I agree. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I always recommend that when I'm on a summit, I'm like, let's connect with each other for the summit speakers, you know, how come, how come people forget that part. It's such an important part because yeah. We are also. Of wanting to connect with peers and like-minded people. So, yeah. I agree with you. It's so great to, to have that [00:27:00] for bundles or summits or conferences as well. Yeah. Viv: Because you know, you get to hear more about the business and what, what it is they do, which, you know, when you kind of just see one offering in a bundle, you don't get the whole picture of that business. So I think it's. Such a great way to, to do that. So if you are gonna run a bundle, I would highly recommend you do a zoom session where you can, you know, it doesn't have to be long, 30, 40 minutes where people can kind of just go round hot seat, introduce themselves. So bundles bundles are like a great, and the reason I like them is you get a really. Great return on your investment. You can create one asset. So one mini course, one, you know ebook, whatever it is, and you can use it in many different bundles. So you do that piece of work once and you get to repurpose it. And that's a really great thing, you know, because we wanna, we don't wanna add and create lots of extra work for ourselves. Yeah. And I would say if you wanna kind of go down that bundle route and that's gonna be a core strategy, have a few different offerings and you can just rotate them for different bundle. Just, just a follow Sarah: up question, like in terms of the [00:28:00] offering, what have you seen kind of the value? Is this something that's worth 50 bucks or 500 bucks or, or Viv: more? It entirely depends on the bundle. And I don't think the value is the big pull for people. I don't think people kind of go, oh, this would cost me $500. I'm gonna go for that. It's really. Understanding who it's targeted at the audience mm-hmm and what are their biggest struggles? And this is where I have seen people say, well, I did a bundle and I didn't get any signups out and I Sarah: didn't create, so it was the wrong offer or the wrong Viv: audience, or yeah. Or people downloaded it because they were kind of just going through the whole thing, downloading everything, and then they didn't get any leads from it. You know, if, if it's, if it's right and you have pitched it right, you should, you know, People joining your mailing list, you should get people then booking in to have like calls or conversations, or if you wanna do trick wire office, you should be, you know, that next step should happen. And that's the process to kind of really look at. So, yeah. Bundles, I like for me works for me. And [00:29:00] then speaking, I love kind of guessing on people's podcasts and in, in kind of people's masterminds, really adding like value. And as you know, I can talk for a long time on my topic. So yeah, I really like to go in and guess speak and I think that adds a different level of connection as well, to, to bundles. So bundles you've gotta out for me. I believe you've got a longer nurture. Kind of journey for those people that are coming in. Whereas when you go in and guest speak I think that's fast tracked as well. Hugely because obviously, you know, there's trust imparted there's so there's so much that comes with that. So for me, guest speaking, I am really energized by having two-way conversations. And this is interesting cuz I, you know, my archetype is, is a salesperson or a persuader mm-hmm , it's a, is a slightly nicer way of putting, putting it. I think. Kind of salesperson brings with it, not always the best, the best vibes. So, yeah. For me, It would, you know, for a persuader architect, people would always say, well, video's great for you, but I hated [00:30:00] video. I hated doing things like on my own because there was, wasn't the two way like exchange and the, that energy. So I found it really difficult. Whereas if I'm doing things like that, you know, now we're having a conversation video. I just, it works so differently for me. It's a great way to do that. So yeah, I like that kind of interaction. I like to speak to people. And that's, I think my social media wasn't great for me. It just didn't feel like I was speaking to. Yeah, what's the third one. Oh, sorry. That was number two. Yeah. Sarah: Forgot. I'm like waiting baby. wait, Viv: waiting, waiting, waiting. And the third one for growing audiences for me is is, is podcast podcasting. You know, so for me, I have my own podcast and I love that and kind of putting that out there. And it's an interesting one because it works in two ways. And as I say, it works for me, for my archetype. It works in terms of it can bring in new audiences, but it's also fantastic for adding value and nurturing my existing audiences. So it works. It's like a double whammy. So you think, if you think about like, what is your intention when [00:31:00] you're using social media and you're trying to kind of give people value and stuff, but it allows an opportunity to go so much deeper than kind of like the odd post. That's something that that's really effective. And the amount of people I get on calls with who wanna work with me and they say, oh, I've been listening to your podcast. You know? And I love it when people message, they go and I'm in California and I listen to your podcast and you know, I love it. And, and this is great, cuz you kind of seen that, that maybe people aren't, haven't been ready to work with you, but they've been getting this value from you and kind of understanding how that works in your, your marketing process is really effective. So you can use it as a, a, a kind of lead generator and then as a nurture. Sort of a converter as well. Sarah: Yeah. It, it totally, it it's like in humane marketing, we, we're all about bringing more of you to your marketing and, and that's what you do in your podcast. You know, people really get to know you, your values, your worldview what you stand for. Because you're not just in promotion mode all the time. I feel like on social media, a lot of people are kind of going [00:32:00] into promotion mode, right? Yeah. Where on social media? Sorry on podcast. You, you are not, we're not in promotion mode. We're, we're not promoting anything. We're just having a, a deep conversation. And so that's when I feel like it's more real. Yeah. I mean, there's also podcasts where I feel like, wow, okay. That's not real. Like, they're still like, kind of like, I wanna just kind of scratch, you know, the surface and go show me your real human being. Yeah. Usually, yeah. You can tell, okay. This feels like, oh, I'm really speaking to live. And that's how she is in real life as well, you know? Viv: Yeah. And I think this is the beauty as well. When you come away from social media, you know, if you think about how you utilize social media, now it's so much is. Quantity kind of content creation approach. You just need to push out content in the hope that it's gonna get seen multiple times a day to have any chance of being seen by other people that are in, in your world. Whereas I [00:33:00] think when we come away from social media, We start serving with content that goes so much deeper, whether that's podcasts, blogs, maybe YouTube power, two videos, you know, whatever that is, you get the opportunity to go so much deeper. And I think that's where the true value lies. You know, and you can give everything away, you know, and I don't hold back because at the end of the day, people come speak, cuz they're like, I still need help. Like implementing this. I need accountability. I need, you know, I just need support. I need someone to really kind of help guide. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. I don't think I think it's actually there it's the opposite effect. If you share more. People are like, oh wow. Now I can really see what, what it would be like to work with her instead of oh, you know, just gimme your top three tips and, and, and then don't go into details that that's yeah, just kind of Viv: superficial. Yeah. But the big thing is, you know, just to kind of, sort of bring together, you know, they, they were my sort of top three ways. But the fastest way to grow your audience [00:34:00] off social media. Is to, to leverage, to borrow audiences. You know, there are three ways that you can grow an audience. You can buy an audience which we've touched on today. You can build an audience. So building like a, a Facebook group, a community. And then also, you know, blog in what we kind of building an audience that way. Or you can borrow an audience, so borrowing other people's audiences, you know, and I think sometimes people think, oh, that's not great, but you know, borrowing audiences is a great way because actually you are giving value. You're giving value that, that. That audience, you know, maybe are not getting from the person who's kind of leading that community known as a hub, you know, so actually bringing that outside expertise that can really serve deeper and that, you know, that is that that's giving you are giving. So you're not kind of taking away saying, well, I'm borrowing and I'm getting people signing up to my list and taking away you are not, you are adding value and, and that's brilliant if people can resonate with what you, you offer and you. Your unique way of [00:35:00] delivery, then that's a fantastic thing, you know? So, so borrowing, you know, audiences and, and maybe borrowings, not the best term, because I think it brings maybe again, like negative kind of connotations for people. But, but that is fundamentally like the best way, the fastest way to grow your audience. Sarah: To, to us what we use. One of the, the piece of the humane marketing mandala is partnership. And to me, it's partnering, you know, it Viv: is partnering, borrowing is partner Sarah: partnering with other entrepreneurs and realizing that your clients gain something. I gain something because I'm exposing my clients to an expertise that I don't have. Yeah. And so really it really is partnering and, and I think we need to find our way back to that. We, you know, it's part of the, this isolation that we kind of learned over the last 20 years, it's like everybody on their own. No. Why, why, you know, we're aligned, our values are aligned. Why not help each other grow our Viv: businesses? Yeah, absolutely. And you know, if you think [00:36:00] back to, to how. We survived back, you know, when we were like Neanderthals and, you know, paleolithic man and everything, you know, and we were at risk of being eaten by saber tooth tiger, you know, that community. Right. You know, and that partnering, you know, was an integral part of our survival. And I think that's why we struggle. So much emotionally and mentally with this isolation now, because we need, we, you know, we need that as human beings. And I think this whole thing with partnerships is just great because you get to connect with people, you know, you get to hop on a zoom and maybe you're not in the same room physically with somebody, but, you know, having that face to face connection and having that one-on-one interaction is so much more powerful, you know, and, and opens up so many more opportunities because we are all connected. Know that one person is. To so many other people and has their own networks and communities that potentially, you know, they can put you in touch with. So it's, it's, it's just a big kind of. Yeah, yeah. Sarah: [00:37:00] Right way. I started not offering a replay for my workshops or, you know, webinars, but to me they're really workshops because they're participated in. Yes. And you know, I do, every time I send it out, I do get one or two nasty emails for, for not offering a replay again, it's because we. Gotten so trained to be spoon fed, spooned more and more content and more and more information that people just sign up to 20 webinars and just get the content and, and then feel even more anxious and overloaded. So I'm like we need to move away from that. And. Like you said, have real human connections, get onto a zoom call where there's other people you don't know and be in community with these people. So I, I build in a break where we say, let's be human with each other and let's pause and let's see each other. You know, fellow humans going through this experience of being an entrepreneur that that's not easy. Yeah. But it's an [00:38:00] unlearning. It's a lot of unlearning. Yeah, Viv: we're such, I mean, like you say, we, you know, we're a society where everything's on demand, you know, we get, yeah. We get stimulation. We get you know, social what's the word I'm looking for? Sorry. Validation social. We get social validation, you know, for instant gratification from checking social media, you know, Amazon prime. We can have things instantly, you know, on demand TV. Everything's there, you know, we're not used to having to wait as well. Is, is another big, big aspect aspect of that, you know? And yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy times. It's, you know, we are overstimulated. I think someone said to me that. In the course of, is it a day or an hour? Now we have more stimulation than caveman would've had within their entire life. Wow. And that's scary. And I think Neil Patel if you dunno who Neil Patel is like big or like he, he, he created Uber suggests, which is great, kind of online SEO search tool and things. And. He put a, I think it was, I think it was Neotel [00:39:00] that talked about the attention span of a goldfish, I think is nine seconds. And I think in 2016 or 17, like the human, like attention span was something like 13 seconds. And now it's shorter in 2022, then that of a goldfish. That is scary. Yeah. And that has come from this like constant, like like I think this, this on demand society and having this constant stimulation. Yeah. Sarah: So where do we go from here? Like, you know, where do you see, how do you see social media evolving over the next. Let's just say five years. I don't think we can even plan 10 years ahead anymore. So let's just see two to five years. How do you see it evolving since there is this movement away from it? I guess? Oh, well Viv: I think there will still be so many people who continue to use it because they. Believe it's the only way, especially people early on in their journey. So I think they will be drawn to it again, as for the reasons I [00:40:00] cited, you know, I use it socially. It's addictive, you know, first and foremost, we have to remember. People are not gonna come away because it's, it is an addiction. Mm-hmm . And so it's still gonna, it's still gonna be massively prominent. I don't think social media is ever going to go away and I don't necessarily think, you know, it, it needs to, for lots of people, it's a great way, you know, to stay connected with, with friends and family, maybe. But from a business perspective, I think you are gonna see a lot more people. After sort of six to 12 months in business, kind of saying this isn't working this is not giving me, you know, the clients I'm not, not getting the leads and clients and I need to, I need another way. Yeah. And I think we'll start seeing more people moving away from social media as that core kind of approach and strategy. Mm. Sarah: Yeah. And, and like you said, it it's a good tool, I guess, to stay in touch with family and friends. And so for that we'll keep using [00:41:00] it. But yeah, I agree with you. There's probably gonna be, and it's a good thing. It's like the, it's almost like you have to go through it, you know, to see, oh, this is not working for me. Yeah, if we all knew what was working right from the start Life would be too easy. so it's like I have to go through some motions and, and see, okay, this is not working for me. Yeah. Also to learn about yourself, as we said, it's a lot, the entrepreneurial journey is a lot about learning out. Learning to find out what works for you. And so maybe we just need to first learn, okay, this is not Viv: working for me. Yeah. What feels good when, you know, and I think again, thinking about the people that come to me, they kind of say, I just, I don't like it. It doesn't feel good. And then, and I don't do it, you know? So this is the other thing I'm not consistent. So I just, it just, it's not working. Sarah: Why give. All together then feel shame about not doing it, right? Yeah. That's another piece. The Viv: shame. Yeah. So the shame is massive. Yeah. [00:42:00] That people feel and like this guilt and why, and, and you know, why am I not doing it? And I've learned all the techniques and strategies, but you know, this, this shame. Yeah. Massive, massive. Sarah: This is so good. Thank you so much. Viv. I, I wanna come full circle, but. Share again, first of all, where people can find your report with the 21 ways where Viv: they can connect with you. It's very easy. It's www.vivguide.com/ 21. That's the number two, one ways. W a Y S that's it. So yeah, Viv guide.com/ 21 ways. And you can get your, your free guide there. You can hear more from me on my podcast marketing without social media and, and, you know, I, I I've, this I've shared some real deep dives recently into kind of bundles. If that's something that's of interest we've got summits coming up in. Couple of weeks. So, you know, all the different kind of approaches that I talk about within that guide, we do a lot kind of deep dives about how effective they are, you know, [00:43:00] the, the pros and cons. So you can kind of explore and get an insight into maybe what feels right for you before you kind of tackle things and, and invest in kind of learning how to do things. Sarah: Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing those resources. And it's, it's, it's almost funny. Like, you know, when I usually ask, where can people find you it's like this long list of, you know, on Instagram, I'm this on Twitter? I'm this? You're like, no, there's my website. And that's where we connect. Viv: Yeah. Connect with me on email, say hi. And, you know, I always say, if you wanna just email me, you know, just drop me an email. Hello, Viv guy.com. And I love that, you know, Truly do reply personally, to every email that comes through to my inbox. In the first instance from everybody, because I like saying hi, you know, we're, we're people we wanna connect. And I like to hear what you do. So tell me, share with me your story. Sarah: Nice. Thank you so much. I have one last question. Sure. What are you grateful for today or this week? Viv: Oh, I've done [00:44:00] my gratitude diary this morning. I was really grateful that my children both slept all night last night in their own beds because they have not been sleeping well over the last couple of weeks, I've saying to Sarah they've been ill. So I was really grateful to. Good sleep last night to help help me kind of prepare for today. And that seems really selfish, but it's real. Oh, Sarah: about it. It's so important. Like if we're not taken care of, then we can't take care of others, first of all, and who's gonna do our Viv: business. Exactly. And I had, you know, my, my eldest is not quite six yet. She's still five. We've had nearly six years of no sleep. So you know, they were never great sleepers. My, well, my eldest has never been a great sleeper, so she she's, she is a lot better now. So I'm always grateful when they sleep all night. Sarah: yeah, hang in there. Viv: it's fine. It's you know, and I like that they come and they feel comfortable coming to get me and say, I just need a, you know, my youngest style say why you out open? She goes, I just need a mama. At three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, I can't send you [00:45:00] away. Can I, you know, have if you need so, yeah, that's my gratitude. Sarah: Thank you so much for being on the humane marketing Viv: show. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you everybody.[00:46:00]

Today I'm talking to Viv Guy about growing your business without social media. Viv is a business coach, mentor, strategist, and the host of the podcast Marketing Without Social Media. Viv is passionate about helping service-based business owners create recurring 5k+ months, WITHOUT social media (bye-bye hamster wheel of content!), having created her first successful biz in her 20s without it. The best bit; doing it all in just 20 hours a week! In this episode, you'll learn about growing your business without social media as well as...   Why Viv thinks there's a growing interest in ditching Social Media If not Social Media, then what? Viv's ideas to grow your business without it Her 3 favorite ways of growing without social How to get traffic to our free offers to get people on to our email list Advantages of email vs. Social Media How Viv thinks Social Media will evolve in the next 5 year And so much more Viv's Resources   Viv's Website Viv's Podcast: Marketing Without Social Media Viv's Free Guide: 21 Ways to Get Clients Off Social Media   Sarah's Resources Watch this episode on Youtube (FREE) Sarah's One Page Marketing Plan (FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter (FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto (FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book The Humane Marketing Circle Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course Podcast Show Notes We use Descript to edit our episodes and it's fantastic! Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com Thanks for listening!   After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast?  The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers -  a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact.  — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Sarah: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] [00:06:00] Hey  Viv. So good to speak to you today. I look forward to our, I'm gonna just let in the listeners that were doing a double episode. So we're, we're recording first for my show. And then I'm gonna be recording one for your show. So yay. We get to hang out all morning. So welcome to the humane marketing podcast with, so  Viv: I'm excited to have. Thanks, sir. I'm so, so happy to be here. And one a morning, we've got how exciting is it's awesome. I think, you know, we're gonna come away from this, like bursting at the seams. I think there's so much energy and value that we take  Sarah: exactly. And all these new ideas about social media and marketing and all of that. So,  Viv: yeah, I'm [00:07:00] really excited.  Sarah: Cool. Well, let's dive right in. I, I, I have some big picture questions for you, but then also some nitty gritty, like, you know, how do we do this without social media? Because yeah, there's, there's obviously the big picture. So the that's kind of what I, where I wanna start. I, I feel like. There's maybe some movements starting together with my humane marketing revolution. Maybe there's a movement also away from social media. Yeah. What do you see? What do you hear in the grapes? What's going on?  Viv: Yeah. So I think you become more aware don't you have things are movements when you, you kind of embrace that yourself. Mm-hmm . So for me, obviously, when I, I had the idea of, I want to go off social media entirely, right? You start kind of looking around who else is doing this? Am I crazy? you know, but it was great. Cuz the coach I was working with at the time, Greg Fon, he had, he would pivoted away from social media. So I was like, okay. Greg can do it. And then I started looking around and came across [00:08:00] Leon Dawson, you know, who I made 11 million and doesn't use social media now and there's, and, you know, look around, there are so many people coming off, social media. So I kind of was like, okay, there are people moving away, but the big thing was. Can can like younger businesses, newer businesses do it, you know? Cause I was seeing a lot of more established businesses doing it. Mm-hmm , you know, multi billion dollar businesses doing it, you know, makeup brands, perfect brands and, and Tesla and people like that. So I was like that. Mm. So I do think there is, I do think there's a movement is in answer. The short answer is yes. I do think there is a, a movement away from social media. There's a lot, obviously that sits behind that and that the rationale mm-hmm, , I'm very logical. You know, so for me, I like to see a good return on my investment of my time and energy. And I didn't see that coming through social media also on a kind of more intuitive, emotional level. I just didn't like social media. I've never liked social media. And it just never felt [00:09:00] right. And I fell into that trap with, with, with my second business, which was a personal brand photography of really, you know, listening to the experts out, out there who were, were saying, you know, you must use social media and you must be on it all time and you must be responsive and da, da duh. And, you know, I just felt. I felt like I was in like social media prison. Like I just didn't have a choice, you know? And, and I had to do all of this stuff and it felt horrible. But I did it and I built a very successful business, but there was always a part of me that was like, I don't like this. And is there another way. And then when I moved into. You know, very naturally into the, into the coaching world because I'd built a very successful business people saying, how did you do that? I, and what I was, you know, intuitively, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, instinctively, I was. I don't like it. It's not really providing me the return on investment cuz energetically, I didn't feel aligned, you know, with it. So [00:10:00] obviously, you know, if you want to talk about sort of energy and what you put out, you're getting return. I just, wasn't seeing the, the return on investment for me in terms of leads. And I found it was so a big sort of energy drain and that's just not what I wanted to. So yes, I was like, there's gotta be another way. And then I also found my clients were coming to me and I seemed to be attracting these clients who were. I don't like social media. I don't wanna use social media. Is there another way? And at that, that point, I had not gone entirely off social media. I was still using Facebook and Instagram, but I was attracting these people who were like, I don't wanna use social media. Can you help me? And I wasn't putting that out there as a message at all, but obviously energetically, you know, and I'm not a woo person. I'm just gonna say this to everyone out there. I'm not, there is a big, you know, and I say that in the kindest possible way, you know, with affect. I'm not, you know, somebody who has studied and, and a lot of expertise and experience, but I have definitely embraced a lot more. You know, woo. In the sense of really tapping into my intuition, you know, and, and my, [00:11:00] my instincts of what feels good. And, and I really do believe, obviously I was putting out this energy that was saying like social media sucks. It's not the right way to build your business. And I was attracting these people before. And then obviously before I kind of made that decision to a really niche and too. How to market without social media. So that was a very long winded answer. yeah. Yes. There's a movement.  Sarah: it's it's all good. It's all good. Then there's so many bits and pieces. And I wanna go back to one that stood out to me where you mentioned, you know, obviously it's easy for the big companies, the, the big corporations, or even the small business owners you mentioned Leon do and Daws. She was on social media before, right? Mm-hmm, , she's built a, an empire on social media. So in a way it's like, oh, well it's easy for them to now say I'm going off social media because if, or, you know, the, the devil's advocate would say, well, they have already built an audience. So it it's, I think it's really relevant that you share.[00:12:00]  We have built businesses before social media and kind of look at these cases and then also share your experience saying, well, I built a business now without social media, right. Because it's, it's everywhere. And so we're like, well, Yeah, but it seems like you have to do it in order to get some kind of audience. It's almost like we have to unlearn everything we learned all the business advice and marketing advice. We, we got over the years,  Viv: right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, and, and I built my first seven figure business without any social media and yes, I'm that old social media did not exist when that business launched. Right. And it was never somewhere I needed to kind of go you know, Yeah, I just didn't do it then. And you look around. Yeah. As you say, then there's a lot of advice that says you have to use social media because, but we look at that and, you know, I had a great conversation when I had Leone Dawson on my show because she's obviously been in business quite long time now. And when you, you know, when social media media first arrived on Facebook, first appeared, you know, you could put [00:13:00] one post out there. And it would get like 80 to 90% kind of reach and engagement on it. Mm-hmm , which was phenomenal. And year on year, it declined, you know? So you're having to put out more and more content to get any kind of engagement or reach. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of very successful entrepreneurs and business owners out there who obviously. Kind of got on that Bandra and that social media marketing kind of, and took that opportunity that was there, which was great to market using social media at a time when it was very effective. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that's what they're now kind of selling.  Sarah: Yeah. And, and they're not telling you that now they have a team of 10 people who constantly create content and do all the social media management  Viv: for you for that. And I, and I often wonder, you know, if they were to start a business right now, you know, in 20, 22 or, you know, it, what would they do? Because it would not be, I'm not gonna say any, it was easy for them, but it would, it's very different, you know? [00:14:00] Horizon now in, in the marketing world. And I think it's, you know, you can become so far removed, you know? So when you are so successful, if you're still trying to kind of teach people who are early on, you're not kind of on the ground doing those kind of ground level Strategies. So how can you then be kind of teaching? It just feels really misaligned for me sometimes that, you know  Sarah: yeah. It's that cookie cutter approach. Oh, this worked for me. So I'm gonna teach you and make millions of dollars. you know, now that yeah. And it, yeah. There's no guarantee that it's gonna work for all these other people. Viv: Yeah. And I think the big thing for me was always, you know, that it was missing. In all the courses and trainings I did and, you know, everything I invested in that nobody said what feels good to you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that was the one question that was missing until I worked with an amazing coach who was like, what do you want it to feel? Like, what do you want it to look like? And I was like, oh, that's a choice here. Is it permission?  Sarah: Yeah. It's just permission giving. Yeah. And I  Viv: think, but I think for so many. Business owners. I, [00:15:00] I work with who come to me. They, they don't know, there's no awareness of other approaches to marketing because when we start a business, you know, most people start a business. You know, whether you say you're a therapist or. Or you wanna be a business coach or whatever it is, you know, where have you already kind of been hanging out on a personal level when you maybe were in your corporate career? Mm-hmm on social media. So you kind of like, it's familiar, it's comfortable. So I'm gonna go there instinctively and automatically, and I'm not gonna explore those other options. Yeah, because this feels like something that I could do and it's easy. And everybody says, you know, the noise out there face, you have to be there. you have to be there. And this is gonna be the easiest way to grow your business. And it's just not the case now, you know? Yeah. And there is so much, so much kind of data out there to kind of back this up that says this is not the most effective. Way to build your business now and to grow your audience, you know, and, and what do we know? You know, we need, we need leads. We need an audience, you know, in order to get [00:16:00] clients and customers and doing it through social media, especially organically is not effective. And I was speaking to. And a, a Facebook ads manager last week who was very much working with small businesses. And she said, honestly, I'm, I cannot sell what I do anymore, because I don't believe it's the right thing for small businesses. Because since the iOS changes last year, it's even harder now. And you know, you are, if you wanna spend 10 to 20 pounds per day on ads, You're just not gonna get the results, you know, so she was saying it like instinctively for her and intuitively it just didn't feel right to be selling that. And so she's gonna come on the podcast and talk about that to people now that actually even the pay to play, you know, cause I've always said, you know, if you wanna do it, it's pay to play. But actually. It's paid to play. If you've got a lot of money to invest and a lot, you know, a lot of money to invest in it. And also you have many other strategies supporting it. You know, you think about the big businesses out there. They are not just pushing out [00:17:00] paid ads. Now they are looking to other, other means of bringing in leads.  Sarah: Yeah. Wow. Such a good example of a humane marketer and, and often you know, the way you come to humane marketing it is by kind of. Tuning into your integrity and saying, can I still do this? You know, and for some people it might still work. She might still get clients and get paid, right? Yeah. But she can't sleep at night because she's like this, I know this is not working for my clients. They're just paying too much for the results that they're getting. And, and I just saw stat also someone sharing on, on. Because that's kind of my turf, where, where I hang out in with LinkedIn ads, 90%, 97% of people don't click on the page that you want them to click on. So they never click over to your landing page. Wow. So the, this ad guy was saying the, the, the new way of looking at ads is kind of like looking at them as billboards.[00:18:00]  So you engage with the O audience that. Already there in your network, you don't send them somewhere else and then try to sell them something there. Right? Yeah. That doesn't mean we make our content all look like ads, but we, you know, we engage differently. But, but yeah, like you pay tons and tons of money for these ads and they don't convert because nobody actually clicks on them anymore. Viv: Yeah. It's you know, and, and it it's out there. The data, you know, the return on investment. It's it's, it's, it's low. It is low. Yeah. It's low, you know, and again, you've gotta have a lot of money and you want to have an ads manager because there's so many changes with algorithms and everything, you know, you could spend days just doing that. Oh yeah. And you know, what's working this month might not work next month. So, you know, ads are a minefield of the, you know, minefield of their own. If you want to do that, but yeah, organically, I, I think there's just a whole reframing that I say to people, like, if you. For example, Facebook groups, because there is a big thing, you know, the [00:19:00] community aspect that, that, that people love with Facebook groups. But, but what's happening is a lot of people are hanging out on, on Facebook and Instagram and places and trying to attract people into, into those kind of groups and communities. And that's really difficult. So I say to people look outside of social media, how can you bring people in to your world, into your email list first and foremost, cuz that's your valuable asset and. If you want them to come hang out with you, sign, post them from your emails, come hang out with me on Instagram or Facebook group or whatever, but stop trying to build your audience like in, you know, on these social media platforms, build it, you know? Via an email list, as they say, cuz that is, you know, the gold, that's the pot of gold in your business. And then direct them if that's what you want, because then they're gonna see more of you, you know, they're gonna see your emails more than they're gonna see that content. And that's a much better way to kind of bring people in. And you know, you dunno what's gonna happen. You don't own social media. You know, we all know that. Yeah. I missed the blackout last year cuz it didn't affect me. But obviously I [00:20:00] woke up to, you know, lots of emails. We kind of didn't have social media have an email list, blah, blah, blah. You know, you don't own this. Yeah. And we're well aware of that. So I just say kind of flip your whole approach to how you are using social media, if you do want to keep using social media. Yeah. So that you are not kind of, so, so kind of. In that world. I think that's the problem. We need to look outside and expand our, our vision beyond social media. And I, I think at the moment, a lot of people are kind of stuck and, and to that tunnel vision, that this is the only way. Yeah.  Sarah: And, and I just wanna add, I'm kind of allergic to this term community on, you know, Facebook when it's. It's not actually a community. It's more an audience for yeah. The guru to, you know, find clients. Yes. And, and, and it's a misuse, in my opinion of the word community, cuz a community is, you know, interconnected. It's not just connected to the guru who wants to sell to  Viv: use. Yes. So a whole different story. I absolutely [00:21:00] agree. And I've been reading the book you are invited by John Levy. Mm-hmm it's a great book and it talks about how. We need like actual connection with people like human connection, you know, and, and how you, we have, you know, we, we, we know more people in this digital era, you know, when we have connections, but we're not really connected and we're so much more isolated. And I think this comes with this, this, this misconception of community, I'm part of a community, but actually. True communi very lonely. Yes. Very, yeah. Very isolating and lonely. So I, I, I absolutely agree with you on that. There's a whole episode just on, just on that. on that idea. Yeah, absolutely. So  Sarah: people are probably just, you know, listening nodding saying yes, yes, yes. But they will also wanna know, well, okay. If not social media, then what, okay. We heard you say, you know, we need an email list, but how do we get people on this email list? It's kind of. Probably feels like the chicken and the egg, so yeah. So yeah, [00:22:00] take us kind of through some pragmatic things on how to yeah. Get more people on your email list because we still want to grow an audience that we can send these emails  Viv: to. Absolutely. And this is the big thing that I mentioned, obviously that the Facebook and, and social media outage last year, and, you know, I'm gonna get on my soapbox for just a moment to say the thing that really railed me, waking up to those emails the next day was, you know, you need to have an email list. You don't own social media and I'm like, we're not idiots. We all know this, but not one person offered the how, how do you build an email list? So I was like, do they even know the answer to this beyond social media? Cuz these were a lot of obviously like social media experts out there, experts. So. For me, I'm very much about the, the how and the practicality. There is no secret here, you know, and I, I've obviously there's a guide that I've shared with you, given you the link for 21 ways. My favorite 21 ways to market without social media, there are hundreds. [00:23:00]  Sarah: Yeah. And there's a great video on your website as well on the homepage where you take us through some  Viv: of these things. So, yeah, absolutely. And you know, and I, and I've offered like 21 ways for, for kind of people who are more service based business is cuz that's my area. Expertise mm-hmm but you know, project based businesses, there are additional ways as well. Anyway, so your  Sarah: favorite. Three ways three,  Viv: my favorite three ways again, for, for me personally. And I just want you guys who are listening to take this, you know, don't just try and replicate me because I have a, my, you know, there are different marketing archetypes. So what works for me may not work for you. Depends on your business. Depends on who you are. And again, there's a whole, all that kind of. Quiz and things you can do there to figure out who that is what that is. So for me, ways, I best way for me to grow my list. I collaborate in bundles. They're really great for me because I get to connect with other people. I build partnerships. So bundles for anyone out there, what is a bundle you're kind of going, Hey, I dunno what that is. So this is where maybe. 20 businesses come together and they [00:24:00] put something in there. So a free course, a free ebook or something that they would normally charge for. And they all put some offering into, to this, this bundle bag basket, you know, virtual bag. And then what happens is everybody shares this with their own email list. So you add value, you give a lot of value to your own audience saying, Hey, these are other things that could be really useful. And only obviously do bundles that, that, that have kind of collaborations and contributions from people who, who are gonna help add value to your audience. Yeah. And so, you know, you are sharing your offering and getting like your, you know, eyes on, on who you are and what you do. You know, to 20 other people's audiences and it's, so is  Sarah: this like a course or some kind of mini program that you're  Viv: offering could be a course mini program. Ebook could be templates, you know, could be like the 20 emails you wanna send when you're launching something, whatever it might be. [00:25:00] So it's a great way to kind of look at that. So for me, bundle's worked really, really  Sarah: well. And are you usually the one organizing these bundles or once you organize one, then you. Kind of know the people and you get invited. How, how do you get started with  Viv: bundles? Yeah. So you could organize a bundle. I did a, a bundle last year. But you can just contribute to bundles. You don't have to ever run your own if you don't want to. And the great thing is kind of, once you get. And discover one. And how do you find them? Google, Google bundles, asking your networks, look around, check out emails. People are normally talking about them. So kind of find out who's run one. You'll have missed it, probably, you know, in terms of getting in that one, but getting in touch with them, like look at who else was contributing because most people kind of are on the circuit doing the rounds, you know? So if that's a strategy that works you'll find people will generally be kind of contributing. Right in that same network and it opens up a lot of connections for you, you know, in terms of you can then collaborate and, and partner with people. One on [00:26:00] one, you can look at joint ventures. So it opens up many opportunities. If, if you make the effort, because they're quite anonymous in the, the sense that you can just put your thing in and never speak to another person who's in that bundle. So, you know, utilize it either reach out to people, kind of say, Hey, we're both in the same bundle. I really like what you do think we've got some crossover, you know, so take it that step further. Some people will, some, some bundle organizers will run like a zoom kind of session where you can all get to kind of connect and meet and greet, which is really nice to actually. Kind of hear from people and really say like, I agree.  Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I always recommend that when I'm on a summit, I'm like, let's connect with each other for the summit speakers, you know, how come, how come people forget that part. It's such an important part because yeah. We are also. Of wanting to connect with peers and like-minded people. So, yeah. I agree with you. It's so great to, to have that [00:27:00] for bundles or summits or conferences as well. Yeah.  Viv: Because you know, you get to hear more about the business and what, what it is they do, which, you know, when you kind of just see one offering in a bundle, you don't get the whole picture of that business. So I think it's. Such a great way to, to do that. So if you are gonna run a bundle, I would highly recommend you do a zoom session where you can, you know, it doesn't have to be long, 30, 40 minutes where people can kind of just go round hot seat, introduce themselves. So bundles bundles are like a great, and the reason I like them is you get a really. Great return on your investment. You can create one asset. So one mini course, one, you know ebook, whatever it is, and you can use it in many different bundles. So you do that piece of work once and you get to repurpose it. And that's a really great thing, you know, because we wanna, we don't wanna add and create lots of extra work for ourselves. Yeah. And I would say if you wanna kind of go down that bundle route and that's gonna be a core strategy, have a few different offerings and you can just rotate them for different bundle. Just, just a follow  Sarah: up question, like in terms of the [00:28:00] offering, what have you seen kind of the value? Is this something that's worth 50 bucks or 500 bucks or, or  Viv: more? It entirely depends on the bundle. And I don't think the value is the big pull for people. I don't think people kind of go, oh, this would cost me $500. I'm gonna go for that. It's really. Understanding who it's targeted at the audience mm-hmm and what are their biggest struggles? And this is where I have seen people say, well, I did a bundle and I didn't get any signups out and I  Sarah: didn't create, so it was the wrong offer or the wrong  Viv: audience, or yeah. Or people downloaded it because they were kind of just going through the whole thing, downloading everything, and then they didn't get any leads from it. You know, if, if it's, if it's right and you have pitched it right, you should, you know, People joining your mailing list, you should get people then booking in to have like calls or conversations, or if you wanna do trick wire office, you should be, you know, that next step should happen. And that's the process to kind of really look at. So, yeah. Bundles, I like for me works for me. And [00:29:00] then speaking, I love kind of guessing on people's podcasts and in, in kind of people's masterminds, really adding like value. And as you know, I can talk for a long time on my topic. So yeah, I really like to go in and guess speak and I think that adds a different level of connection as well, to, to bundles. So bundles you've gotta out for me. I believe you've got a longer nurture. Kind of journey for those people that are coming in. Whereas when you go in and guest speak I think that's fast tracked as well. Hugely because obviously, you know, there's trust imparted there's so there's so much that comes with that. So for me, guest speaking, I am really energized by having two-way conversations. And this is interesting cuz I, you know, my archetype is, is a salesperson or a persuader mm-hmm , it's a, is a slightly nicer way of putting, putting it. I think. Kind of salesperson brings with it, not always the best, the best vibes. So, yeah. For me, It would, you know, for a persuader architect, people would always say, well, video's great for you, but I hated [00:30:00] video. I hated doing things like on my own because there was, wasn't the two way like exchange and the, that energy. So I found it really difficult. Whereas if I'm doing things like that, you know, now we're having a conversation video. I just, it works so differently for me. It's a great way to do that. So yeah, I like that kind of interaction. I like to speak to people. And that's, I think my social media wasn't great for me. It just didn't feel like I was speaking to. Yeah, what's the third one. Oh, sorry. That was number two. Yeah.  Sarah: Forgot. I'm like waiting baby. wait,  Viv: waiting, waiting, waiting. And the third one for growing audiences for me is is, is podcast podcasting. You know, so for me, I have my own podcast and I love that and kind of putting that out there. And it's an interesting one because it works in two ways. And as I say, it works for me, for my archetype. It works in terms of it can bring in new audiences, but it's also fantastic for adding value and nurturing my existing audiences. So it works. It's like a double whammy. So you think, if you think about like, what is your intention when [00:31:00] you're using social media and you're trying to kind of give people value and stuff, but it allows an opportunity to go so much deeper than kind of like the odd post. That's something that that's really effective. And the amount of people I get on calls with who wanna work with me and they say, oh, I've been listening to your podcast. You know? And I love it when people message, they go and I'm in California and I listen to your podcast and you know, I love it. And, and this is great, cuz you kind of seen that, that maybe people aren't, haven't been ready to work with you, but they've been getting this value from you and kind of understanding how that works in your, your marketing process is really effective. So you can use it as a, a, a kind of lead generator and then as a nurture. Sort of a converter as well.  Sarah: Yeah. It, it totally, it it's like in humane marketing, we, we're all about bringing more of you to your marketing and, and that's what you do in your podcast. You know, people really get to know you, your values, your worldview what you stand for. Because you're not just in promotion mode all the time. I feel like on social media, a lot of people are kind of going [00:32:00] into promotion mode, right? Yeah. Where on social media? Sorry on podcast. You, you are not, we're not in promotion mode. We're, we're not promoting anything. We're just having a, a deep conversation. And so that's when I feel like it's more real. Yeah. I mean, there's also podcasts where I feel like, wow, okay. That's not real. Like, they're still like, kind of like, I wanna just kind of scratch, you know, the surface and go show me your real human being. Yeah. Usually, yeah. You can tell, okay. This feels like, oh, I'm really speaking to live. And that's how she is in real life as well, you know?  Viv: Yeah. And I think this is the beauty as well. When you come away from social media, you know, if you think about how you utilize social media, now it's so much is. Quantity kind of content creation approach. You just need to push out content in the hope that it's gonna get seen multiple times a day to have any chance of being seen by other people that are in, in your world. Whereas I [00:33:00] think when we come away from social media, We start serving with content that goes so much deeper, whether that's podcasts, blogs, maybe YouTube power, two videos, you know, whatever that is, you get the opportunity to go so much deeper. And I think that's where the true value lies. You know, and you can give everything away, you know, and I don't hold back because at the end of the day, people come speak, cuz they're like, I still need help. Like implementing this. I need accountability. I need, you know, I just need support. I need someone to really kind of help guide.  Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, totally agree. I don't think I think it's actually there it's the opposite effect. If you share more. People are like, oh wow. Now I can really see what, what it would be like to work with her instead of oh, you know, just gimme your top three tips and, and, and then don't go into details that that's yeah, just kind of  Viv: superficial. Yeah. But the big thing is, you know, just to kind of, sort of bring together, you know, they, they were my sort of top three ways. But the fastest way to grow your audience [00:34:00] off social media. Is to, to leverage, to borrow audiences. You know, there are three ways that you can grow an audience. You can buy an audience which we've touched on today. You can build an audience. So building like a, a Facebook group, a community. And then also, you know, blog in what we kind of building an audience that way. Or you can borrow an audience, so borrowing other people's audiences, you know, and I think sometimes people think, oh, that's not great, but you know, borrowing audiences is a great way because actually you are giving value. You're giving value that, that. That audience, you know, maybe are not getting from the person who's kind of leading that community known as a hub, you know, so actually bringing that outside expertise that can really serve deeper and that, you know, that is that that's giving you are giving. So you're not kind of taking away saying, well, I'm borrowing and I'm getting people signing up to my list and taking away you are not, you are adding value and, and that's brilliant if people can resonate with what you, you offer and you. Your unique way of [00:35:00] delivery, then that's a fantastic thing, you know? So, so borrowing, you know, audiences and, and maybe borrowings, not the best term, because I think it brings maybe again, like negative kind of connotations for people. But, but that is fundamentally like the best way, the fastest way to grow your audience. Sarah: To, to us what we use. One of the, the piece of the humane marketing mandala is partnership. And to me, it's partnering, you know, it  Viv: is partnering, borrowing is partner  Sarah: partnering with other entrepreneurs and realizing that your clients gain something. I gain something because I'm exposing my clients to an expertise that I don't have. Yeah. And so really it really is partnering and, and I think we need to find our way back to that. We, you know, it's part of the, this isolation that we kind of learned over the last 20 years, it's like everybody on their own. No. Why, why, you know, we're aligned, our values are aligned. Why not help each other grow our  Viv: businesses? Yeah, absolutely. And you know, if you think [00:36:00] back to, to how. We survived back, you know, when we were like Neanderthals and, you know, paleolithic man and everything, you know, and we were at risk of being eaten by saber tooth tiger, you know, that community. Right. You know, and that partnering, you know, was an integral part of our survival. And I think that's why we struggle. So much emotionally and mentally with this isolation now, because we need, we, you know, we need that as human beings. And I think this whole thing with partnerships is just great because you get to connect with people, you know, you get to hop on a zoom and maybe you're not in the same room physically with somebody, but, you know, having that face to face connection and having that one-on-one interaction is so much more powerful, you know, and, and opens up so many more opportunities because we are all connected. Know that one person is. To so many other people and has their own networks and communities that potentially, you know, they can put you in touch with. So it's, it's, it's just a big kind of. Yeah, yeah.  Sarah: [00:37:00] Right way. I started not offering a replay for my workshops or, you know, webinars, but to me they're really workshops because they're participated in. Yes. And you know, I do, every time I send it out, I do get one or two nasty emails for, for not offering a replay again, it's because we. Gotten so trained to be spoon fed, spooned more and more content and more and more information that people just sign up to 20 webinars and just get the content and, and then feel even more anxious and overloaded. So I'm like we need to move away from that. And. Like you said, have real human connections, get onto a zoom call where there's other people you don't know and be in community with these people. So I, I build in a break where we say, let's be human with each other and let's pause and let's see each other. You know, fellow humans going through this experience of being an entrepreneur that that's not easy. Yeah. But it's an [00:38:00] unlearning. It's a lot of unlearning. Yeah,  Viv: we're such, I mean, like you say, we, you know, we're a society where everything's on demand, you know, we get, yeah. We get stimulation. We get you know, social what's the word I'm looking for? Sorry. Validation social. We get social validation, you know, for instant gratification from checking social media, you know, Amazon prime. We can have things instantly, you know, on demand TV. Everything's there, you know, we're not used to having to wait as well. Is, is another big, big aspect aspect of that, you know? And yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy times. It's, you know, we are overstimulated. I think someone said to me that. In the course of, is it a day or an hour? Now we have more stimulation than caveman would've had within their entire life. Wow. And that's scary. And I think Neil Patel if you dunno who Neil Patel is like big or like he, he, he created Uber suggests, which is great, kind of online SEO search tool and things. And. He put a, I think it was, I think it was Neotel [00:39:00] that talked about the attention span of a goldfish, I think is nine seconds. And I think in 2016 or 17, like the human, like attention span was something like 13 seconds. And now it's shorter in 2022, then that of a goldfish. That is scary. Yeah. And that has come from this like constant, like like I think this, this on demand society and having this constant stimulation. Yeah.  Sarah: So where do we go from here? Like, you know, where do you see, how do you see social media evolving over the next. Let's just say five years. I don't think we can even plan 10 years ahead anymore. So let's just see two to five years. How do you see it evolving since there is this movement away from it? I guess? Oh, well  Viv: I think there will still be so many people who continue to use it because they. Believe it's the only way, especially people early on in their journey. So I think they will be drawn to it again, as for the reasons I [00:40:00] cited, you know, I use it socially. It's addictive, you know, first and foremost, we have to remember. People are not gonna come away because it's, it is an addiction. Mm-hmm . And so it's still gonna, it's still gonna be massively prominent. I don't think social media is ever going to go away and I don't necessarily think, you know, it, it needs to, for lots of people, it's a great way, you know, to stay connected with, with friends and family, maybe. But from a business perspective, I think you are gonna see a lot more people. After sort of six to 12 months in business, kind of saying this isn't working this is not giving me, you know, the clients I'm not, not getting the leads and clients and I need to, I need another way. Yeah. And I think we'll start seeing more people moving away from social media as that core kind of approach and strategy. Mm.  Sarah: Yeah. And, and like you said, it it's a good tool, I guess, to stay in touch with family and friends. And so for that we'll keep using [00:41:00] it. But yeah, I agree with you. There's probably gonna be, and it's a good thing. It's like the, it's almost like you have to go through it, you know, to see, oh, this is not working for me. Yeah, if we all knew what was working right from the start Life would be too easy. so it's like I have to go through some motions and, and see, okay, this is not working for me. Yeah. Also to learn about yourself, as we said, it's a lot, the entrepreneurial journey is a lot about learning out. Learning to find out what works for you. And so maybe we just need to first learn, okay, this is not  Viv: working for me. Yeah. What feels good when, you know, and I think again, thinking about the people that come to me, they kind of say, I just, I don't like it. It doesn't feel good. And then, and I don't do it, you know? So this is the other thing I'm not consistent. So I just, it just, it's not working.  Sarah: Why give. All together then feel shame about not doing it, right? Yeah. That's another piece. The  Viv: shame. Yeah. So the shame is massive. Yeah. [00:42:00] That people feel and like this guilt and why, and, and you know, why am I not doing it? And I've learned all the techniques and strategies, but you know, this, this shame. Yeah. Massive, massive.  Sarah: This is so good. Thank you so much. Viv. I, I wanna come full circle, but. Share again, first of all, where people can find your report with the 21 ways where  Viv: they can connect with you. It's very easy. It's www.vivguide.com/ 21. That's the number two, one ways. W a Y S that's it. So yeah, Viv guide.com/ 21 ways. And you can get your, your free guide there. You can hear more from me on my podcast marketing without social media and, and, you know, I, I I've, this I've shared some real deep dives recently into kind of bundles. If that's something that's of interest we've got summits coming up in. Couple of weeks. So, you know, all the different kind of approaches that I talk about within that guide, we do a lot kind of deep dives about how effective they are, you know, [00:43:00] the, the pros and cons. So you can kind of explore and get an insight into maybe what feels right for you before you kind of tackle things and, and invest in kind of learning how to do things. Sarah: Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing those resources. And it's, it's, it's almost funny. Like, you know, when I usually ask, where can people find you it's like this long list of, you know, on Instagram, I'm this on Twitter? I'm this? You're like, no, there's my website. And that's where we connect.  Viv: Yeah. Connect with me on email, say hi. And, you know, I always say, if you wanna just email me, you know, just drop me an email. Hello, Viv guy.com. And I love that, you know, Truly do reply personally, to every email that comes through to my inbox. In the first instance from everybody, because I like saying hi, you know, we're, we're people we wanna connect. And I like to hear what you do. So tell me, share with me your story.  Sarah: Nice. Thank you so much. I have one last question. Sure. What are you grateful for today or this week?  Viv: Oh, I've done [00:44:00] my gratitude diary this morning. I was really grateful that my children both slept all night last night in their own beds because they have not been sleeping well over the last couple of weeks, I've saying to Sarah they've been ill. So I was really grateful to. Good sleep last night to help help me kind of prepare for today. And that seems really selfish, but it's real. Oh,  Sarah: about it. It's so important. Like if we're not taken care of, then we can't take care of others, first of all, and who's gonna do our  Viv: business. Exactly. And I had, you know, my, my eldest is not quite six yet. She's still five. We've had nearly six years of no sleep. So you know, they were never great sleepers. My, well, my eldest has never been a great sleeper, so she she's, she is a lot better now. So I'm always grateful when they sleep all night.  Sarah: yeah, hang in there.  Viv: it's fine. It's you know, and I like that they come and they feel comfortable coming to get me and say, I just need a, you know, my youngest style say why you out open? She goes, I just need a mama. At three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, I can't send you [00:45:00] away. Can I, you know, have if you need so, yeah, that's my gratitude.  Sarah: Thank you so much for being on the humane marketing  Viv: show. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you everybody.[00:46:00] 

How has Alexandra Franzen built two thriving businesses without social media? By delivering work with a quality I like to call “exquisite greatness.” She treats every marketing initiative like a tiny art project, something to get excited about rather than a draining chore to dread—and no, it doesn't require social media. As Alex shares, according to a Nielsen study, 92% of customers purchase products or services because of a recommendation from someone they know. More About Alex: Alexandra Franzen is a bestselling author, award-winning editor, and entrepreneur based in Hawaii. She's the co-founder of Get It Done, a company providing writing coaching, editing, proofreading, cover design, publishing, and distribution services for clients who want to write a book. She writes one of my favorite newsletters at AlexandraFranzen.com, and runs her popular Tiny Book Course and Unplug Retreats. Alex deleted all of her social media accounts eight years ago as she describes in her forthcoming book, Marketing Without Social Media.

The truth is, social media is not going to be around forever or at least not always in the same way we know it today. Is your business prepared for the change whenever that day comes? In this episode I am giving you 5 different ideas on how you can market your business that requires no social media at all. Tune in now before it's too late!   Shownotes: https://sarahelrodblog.com/marketing-without-social-media/   Try Flodesk For FREE HERE!   JOIN THE EXCLUSIVE FACEBOOK GROUP FOR LISTENERS // https://www.facebook.com/groups/brandedcowgirlpodcast   FOLLOW ALONG ON INSTAGRAM //  BCP Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brandedcowgirlpodcast/ Sarah's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mrssarahelrod/   FOLLOW US ON TIK TOK // BCP TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@thebrandedcowgirlpodcast Sarah's TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mrssarahelrod?lang=en   MEDIA INQUIRIES OR BRAND REQUESTS // Email: Hello@SarahElrod.com   GET UPDATES ON BRANDED COWGIRL + FREE BUSINESS EDUCATION //  https://view.flodesk.com/pages/5f9034a44f8c6d8f57036fb0  

So many humans are on edge right now. A lot of this uncertainty has been going on since before the pandemic and this recent war… and there will be unrest and epidemics all over the world at any given time.I say this not to diminish what is going on, but to remind you that this week's topic can be of benefit at all times, because there is never any predictability or guaranteed security. Impermanence is a law of nature. But we can still find a way for us to best navigate and stay human amidst it all. To stay connected to our humanity.I'll be sharing some evidence-based tips to help you still your mind and build the resilience to be present with the world in these uncertain times - and take care of yourself as well.One of the first things I want to recommend is a news cleanse.As humans, our brains didn't evolve over millennia incorporating knowledge of the entire world and its issues. People have discussed the burden of being overwhelmed with day-to-day life since long before the rise of television and mass media.Knowing that we weren't really wired for all this doesn't mean we should ignore the suffering or tune it out. It means we can allow it in intentionally and practice self-care to manage it. We can titrate how we receive it.I personally remember not learning about 9-11 until three days later. And to me it seems ok that I learned about it not at the EXACT moment it occurred.When you're on a news cleanse, try to limit how much time and where you spend scrolling about news. I like to choose one or two reliable sources that do fact-checking and have a good reputation worldwide to be less biased than other sources.Try not to check the news every day, or at least just check in once a day, and definitely not first thing in the morning. Or maybe only check it a couple times a week. Or avoid news completely for a few weeks altogether! The world will still keep happening and you will be able to catch up.Another thing we can regularly practice is a social media detox.I know it's been mentioned before, but it's hard to actually do. Don't worry - you can totally start small. You can avoid all social media - or even delete or hide the apps - for as long as you want: a week, half a day, whatever! Anything will make a difference.Imagine spending an entire day present with who you're with, what you're doing, the beauty around you… all without constantly checking your phone.And when you do this for longer amounts of time, you're able to move past the initial phase of FOMO. And you'll get to drop in more.I also highly recommend not checking email first thing in the morning.This has made a huge difference in my day. When we check our email early in the AM, it can throw us out of alignment for the rest of the day. For me, I get so much email anxiety reading an ambiguous subject line from someone I'm working with or seeing the first few lines of an email on my phone. I even found out about my mom's death via facebook messenger.Before we allow outside news and communication to enter our mental space, we should first practice self-care. Then, whatever arises, we will be more able to respond with clarity, wisdom, and compassion - than had we not first gotten into alignment.One thing we can do instead of checking our phone or email is to start off the day with 3 gratitudes, which really helps set a great tone for our mindset of the day. Check out Episode 81 on the importance of a daily routine for some great tips on ways to start your day off in alignment (linked below in the resources).Also, when it's time to check your messages, remember that no emergencies are sent by email. Sure, people will freak out and want stuff handled ASAP, but that does not make it an emergency. They can wait. Or they can call.There are other tips I share in the pod, but The last suggestion I want to share here is to spend time in nature.This is my most fave thing to do from this list. Time in nature really healed me from the super messed up week I talked about in the last episode. I went camping with a friend and once we arrived and got set up, I was able to just chillax. I watched the waves and the kids playing. I listened to the birds, the wind, the ocean… And I didn't listen to any music.Nature allows me to quiet my mind, heal, and pray. It helps my busy and noisy brain to slow down and quiet down.I did a course with Alex Franzen called Marketing Without Social Media and she talked about the 3-day effect. Basically, this guy who used to be a river rafting guide would notice that on day 3 of his trips, there would be a shift in energy of the group. He called it “third day magic.” He believed this occurred because it took 3 days to drop into a new reality. That it took 2 full days to “shed” civilization and allow a new perspective to set in.Neuroscientist David Strayer agreed with this phenomenon when he noticed that he had some of his own best ideas arising after 3 days of camping in nature. He even did a study to test the 3-day effect and what he found was that at the end of a trip, if people are given a special word association test, those who experienced that 3-day effect performed 47% better. Which is HUGE. This study was replicated in different settings by different researchers too.While time in nature helps you be more creative and productive, I share this more to help you be more human. A human BEING and not just a human DOING.Look, I get that all of these things aren't necessarily convenient. And they can be really hard to start to do - especially with the amount of time we spend on social media or just using our phones in general and the expectations people have. But you need this now more than ever. You need to unplug. Cleanse. Take care of yourself. As humans, the level of this inundation of information is relatively new. We need to help our brains handle it.So I'd like to invite you to pick at least one of the suggestions and implement it for a day (or 3 days, if you're going out into nature). Do it regularly, plan in advance. Think of it as an exercise. Make it part of what you do to live your best life in this wild new world.Do this regularly, because we need to give our brains a break so we can handle living in this wild new world. While being a human is amazing and we can cultivate the capacity to handle a lot in this world, we are…only human. Allow yourself this time to rest your mind and still your soul so you can make the most of your rebel life. In this Episode you will learn:// How to manage fear in a life full of uncertainty and impermanence// 5 ways to find your center no matter what is happening in the world// Why avoiding media (and emails!) first thing in the morning is so beneficial// What the “3-day effect” is and how it helps us connect to our humanity and calm our minds (and yes - have more creativity too!)Resources:// Episode 60: How to Stop Unnecessary Suffering// Episode 63: Being Human is Hard (The First Noble Truth)// Episode 81: The Importance of a Daily Routine// The Nature Fix: Why Nature Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative by Florence Williams// The 3-Day Effect Podcast by Florence Williams// Statistics on daily time spent social networking// If you're new to the squad, grab the Rebel Buddhist Toolkit I created at RebelBuddhist.com. It has all you need to start creating a life of more freedom, adventure, and purpose. You'll also get access to the Rebel Buddhist FB group, and tune in every Wednesday at 11:30am PST as I go live.  // If you're in need of a powerful pause and ready for some re-alignment, shake up your life with the upcoming Adventure Mastermind. It's a no-BS group of 6 womxn ready to slay the next year – YOUR way. Six months of transformation and adventures (inner and outer!) that will have you blowing your own mind, and you can learn more at www.AdventureMastermind.com Check it out – application is open, with an amazing limited-time bonus of a plane ticket credit to one of the retreats! You won't want to miss the chance to hang out with me and a small group of rebel womxn in adventurous places to get unstuck and create the next chapter of your amazing life!   // Want to dive into this work on a deeper level? To study it and practice it together? Check out Freedom School – the community for ALL things related to freedom, inside and out.        It's also where you can get individual help applying the concepts to your own life. It's where you can learn new coaching tools not shared on the podcast that will blow your mind even more, and it's where you can connect over all things freedom with other freedom junkies just like you and me. It's my favorite place on earth and it will change your life, I guarantee it. Come join us at JoinFreedomSchool.com. I can't wait to see you there.