Podcast appearances and mentions of ben love

I sure hope this episode isn't BadBad.On this week's episode of Retro Encounter, we cover the most interesting RPGs of the year, but this time, we flash it back to 1995. We discuss design decisions, varying localization quality, and those insane encounter rates. Does someone bring on a really bad RPG just for the fun of it? Listen in to find out!Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Lucas Greene, Ben Love, Mike Salbato; Edited by Zach WilkersonOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

 When it just touches on these really profound themes and it's moving in a way that catches you off guard. Matt Nothelfer is a Committee Member of the Borrego Springs Film Festival and working documentary filmmaker.In this conversation, Matt talks:* Why small, community-driven festivals like Borrego Springs offer some of the best experiences for indie filmmakers.* How the festival creates a filmmaker-friendly environment: lounge, home-baked food, networking, and long Q&As.* The “secret weapon” of Borrego Springs: a local audience that fills a 180-seat theater from morning to night.* Why early-bird submissions matter—and when they don't.* How to spot scammy or low-value festivals on FilmFreeway through community presence, transparency, and online footprint.* Why filmmakers should focus more on storytelling and theme than technical perfection.* The blind-submission, five-category review process Borrego uses to evaluate films fairly.* Why small festivals often have the highest acceptance chances—300 submissions, 70–80 selections.* How writing a thoughtful, festival-specific cover letter can move a film from “maybe” to “yes.”* Advice to emerging filmmakers: avoid chasing 100 meaningless laurels and instead pursue festivals aligned with your goals.Thanks for reading The Creativity, Education, and Leadership Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Here is an AI-generated transcript of our conversation. Don't come for me.BEN: Hi everyone. This is Ben Guest and this is The Creativity Education and Leadership Podcast. Today my guest is Matt Telfer, who is a committee member for the Borrego Springs Film Festival. In this interview, we talk all things film festival, how to run a filmmaker friendly festival, and tips and tricks for submitting to film festivals.Enjoy.Matt, thanks so much for joining the podcast today.MATT: My pleasure. Happy to be here.BEN: So, I always like to start with a fun question, senior year of high school, what music were you listening toMATT: right off the bat with a curve ball? Alright, let's lay it out. I got the Talking Heads,BEN: the Cure,MATT: Like, let's see, what else?BEN: New Wave.MATT: Yeah, a little bit of the punk stuff. I mean, we got Pixies were, was I listening to the Pixies then? I can't remember. Yeah, so, uh, the Dead Milkman, stuff like that. The pubs, um, yeah, I had some of their records. You know, it's really frustrating ‘cause I had those records up until like five years ago and I left them at a colleague's house and they scattered to the wind.All that good stuff. Yeah. Anyway, I'm still a little bitter about that, but That's okay. My colleagues, my colleague was a friend and he, he deserved them.BEN: So you are a committee member at the Borrego Springs Film Festival. What? Yes, sir. And, and you've, you've held a variety of roles there and, and off air, you're saying sort of lately you've been focused on.You know, the pre-production of the festival, the website, getting the materials together. Correct? Correct. Reaching out to filmmakers, et cetera. Talk to me, talk to us about what are the fundamentals of running a good festival?MATT: Well, our context is that we're super small and modest. Uh, like we were saying before the interview, uh, officially started, we are literally a, a tiny little village in the middle of a giant state park.Actually the biggest state park in the lower 48 states desert community. We're actually just south of Palm Springs and, uh, there's like 3000 full-time residents here and, uh. So running a film festival in a place where there's literally. Not really a commercial market, it's a different type of animal.And um, so we kind of do everything on a very tight budget and we try to personalize stuff as much as we possibly can. We, since we can't really throw a lot of money at stuff, we just do everything we can in other dimensions.BEN: What's an example of that?MATT: Just trying to be considerate about stuff, uh, being friendly to filmmakers that are willing to submit and to get, and that also get accepted. So when they come here, it's a personalized experience. We work pretty hard on creating a filmmaker's lounge where folks can gather and network with each other throughout the entire uh.Five days of our film festival and while they're at the film festival and they're talking to each other, we also have food available for ‘em. One of our great committee members, her name's Pam, she literally will bake stuff in the evening and bring it in in the morning. So you have fresh pastries, cookies, coffee, like fruit vegetables, just everything laid out.And you know, there's really not a huge expense to do that, but you need like the right people to do that, so that's the thing that kind of makes our festival a little bit. Different, I guess in a way is like there's a personalized aspect to it and we spread that type of attitude across all our stuff.So we're gonna have like four parties during the entire festival, and all those parties have similar type of vibe.BEN: The reviews that I read online, um, on film freeway filmmakers were saying that it is, it's a film, it's a filmmaker friendly. Festival.MATT: Yeah. Because, you know, that's what we can do. Mm-hmm. Like, you're not gonna travel to a remote place in the desert and, you know, run into a bunch of industry folks.Usually there are exceptions to that. And, uh, as our. Film festival has gotten a little more solid, and we occasionally have some industry people coming in. Most of the time it's indie filmmakers. You know, we might have some elbow rubbing that this kind of neat. But for the most part, you know, these are just small independent filmmakers trying to do their thing and.Wanting to share their films with an appreciative audience. And aside from, being very personable, uh, with the committee and with the staff that run the film festival, one of the great things about our particular film festival is that the community is a huge part of what we do. The event they show up, we have 180 seat theater and it's full from 10:00 AM in the morning until eight o'clock at night.Oh wow. Every block and wow. It's been that way since the beginning, and it's not because of anything that we do on the committee, it's simply because the community wants to be a part of it. And so that's kind of our secret weapon, is like you show up as a filmmaker and like, oh man, I got, I got scheduled for the 10:00 AM block.They, and then they, they show up and like, what's going on here? This is look back. And then at the end of it, you know, there's an extended q and a. We don't. Push our blocks back to back really tight and there's plenty of time just to like relax and having interaction with folks and some q and as will go on for like a half an hour, if not more.And it's just, you know, so that's a unique thing that just kind of emerged without effort. And we take credit for it and we're excited that we can offer that. But you know, it wasn't any, it wasn't by design, it was just kind of like, cool. This is working.BEN: As far as festivals go, it sounds like filmmaker heaven.MATT: Well, you try to, we definitely try to be. And the dude that got this whole thing rolling, his name's Fred G and he has lived in this little community for a really long time, and he's a great guy and he's one of the reasons why a lot of people show up because, you know, he's just one of those kind of like community, uh, he's, he'll be really upset if I use this phrase, but he's like a town elder. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So just having that type of guidance and having that type of person that can kind of unify the entire event, I. Is really great. And again, like I said before, it's kind of our secret weapon is that we have like this great community that's willing to be a part of a filmmaker's storytelling in so much as like they'll sit there, they'll react to it, they'll ask questions about it afterwards.So yeah, if you're. A filmmaker that wants your film to be seen by actual eyeballs and actual people that are engaged. Mm-hmm. Then film festivals like ours, which there are many around, around the world. You gotta search ‘em out. As a filmmaker, you've gotta. Start getting discriminating. You've gotta really pay attention to what films are film festivals are offering and try to be a part of those kinds of environments, if that's what you want.BEN: So this is great because you're, um, you are part of the Bgo Springs Film Festival, you're also a working filmmaker. What are some other festivals that you've attended or know about that have a similar sort of filmmaker friendly vibe?MATT: Full Bloom film festival in North Carolina for sure. The WYO Film Festival in Wyoming, we enjoyed that a lot.My wife and I who are documentary filmmakers, we've taken our film films there. And again, you know, it's the exact same recipe basically, you have a core group of citizens that are willing and able to show up and be a part of an event. So when you sh, when you arrive as a filmmaker and you sit in the audience, you're not alone with, or if you're in the audience and you're only with other filmmakers there to screen their movie, you know?Yeah. You know that, you know that feeling. We've been there, right? We've been, we've all been there and, and we don't. Film festival is like what we're talking about right now. They don't wanna offer that. They want it to be something, even if they sometimes fall short, which has happened with us, we've had blocks where, maybe there's only 50 people in the audience and, you know, half of the audience might be filmmakers.But that is such a rare thing anymore. You just wanna be offering something to filmmakers. Make them feel appreciated because we know how hard it is to make these things and even and to be willing to share that in front of other people and, ask and answer questions it's a special thing and we wanna nurture that as much as possible and sort of those other film festivals.Love it. Yeah.BEN: Yeah. So we, I, I first came across you on Reddit on the film festival subreddit, and you were offering good advice and thoughts on, for filmmakers applying to festivals, how to think through strategy. So I guess for all, yeah. I mean, did you hear Yeah, help us out.MATT: Yeah. Did you, when you were reading that stuff, I mean, what kind of hit you as like the most relevant?BEN: I think it's two things and since I, I just have a documentary. I finished and am submitted a film festivals. I've read a bunch of stuff. Seen a bunch of stuff, so I may conflate some of the things that you said versus something I saw elsewhere. But two things. That's all right. I'llMATT: take credit for it.BEN: One is know what your goal is ahead of time, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. To, be it the, be it a filmmaker friendly festival with good parties and events and networking. Is your goal to get exposure? Is your goal to meet people in the industry? Is your goal mm-hmm. To get laurels? Those are all different worthy goals, but they all will change your strategy and your approach for film festivals.And the second is, you know, submit to, don't submit to 50 festivals. Submit to 5, 6, 7, see what the results are and then adjust from there.MATT: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah, when we're talking strategy, that's so important and, and we can speak about it from the perspective of the Borrego Springs Film Festival because, you know, knowing the context of the type of festival we are now, if you were a filmmaker that was searching out, let's say.A bunch of like publicity for, you know, some type of, media push. It's like, would you necessarily want to come to Bgo Springs? Maybe yes, maybe no. It depends on how you played it, but. The main reason you would be coming to Borrego Springs, we feel is because you want that personal interaction and you want feel special as a filmmaker and you want to share your stuff with us, and we want you to share your stuff with us, right?So you're absolutely right when you're initial initiating your kind of film festival search as a filmmaker, you really gotta narrow down what your expectations are. And figure that out. I can speak as a filmmaker as well. It's like if you're gonna go someplace and spend money to do so, I mean, at the very minimum you squeak by on a budget of 500 bucks, then that's kind of like dirt cheap to go someplace and then return home.You know? That's still a lot of money. Mm-hmm. And that's, that's probably like. The least amount that you would ever be able to spend and you would need help, like getting lodging, which we try to offer to our filmmakers. Um, you know, how are you gonna, what are you gonna do? What are you going to eat when you get there, which we try to offer to our filmmakers.And, you know, all those things become part of the calculus, right? Mm-hmm. Especially when you're independent, mm-hmm. I would ask you is like when you're trying to submit, what are you aiming for right now?BEN: So great question. So I'm aiming for trying to get multiple laurels and I'm in, in a little bit of a different situation, I think, than most filmmakers.So I, I have an academic background, I have a PhD, and ideally I'd like to I've worked at various universities. In the ideal world, I'd like to go back overseas and teach film at a university. And so in the world, in the world of academia, you know, there's this phrase, publish or perish, right? You have to publish academic journal articles, publish.Mm-hmm. In film, in the world of filmmaking, academia, a film festival run. A film festival. Acceptance is like a journal article, right? Um, maybe if you do a feature film that's like publishing a book, this is sort of, uh, roughly equivalent to getting a, a journal article published. So I want to sort of garner a number of laurels so that I can indicate, you know, this, this short plate at these 10 different film festivals.MATT: Okay, so the credentials matter, right? Correct. It's kind of like that kind of that'sBEN: exactly right. LittleMATT: trophy on the mantle, as it were. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, I'm gonna ask you another question if that's okay.BEN: Yes. I feel like I'm getting a All right. Free film festival, um, consulting.MATT: Perhaps, I don't know about that, but when you are pursuing the laurels and, you know, everything's kind of like filtering through film freeway these days. Mm-hmm. So what's your strategy as far as like finding those types of film festivals that you think are going to, allow you to get those laurels on your poster or whatever?BEN: Yeah. Another great question. So couple things. One is it's a doc. My latest is a documentary short, and it's, it takes place in the world of improv comedy. And the two subjects are two black women. So looking at festivals that either are geared towards comedy, towards documentary shorts or towards black themes and African American themes. One of those three or, or, um. Themes of uh, women in, in general. Sure. Well, if I couldMATT: interrupt real quick, please. Yeah. So it seems like you're trying to basically still maintain some integrity as far as that goes. It's like, yeah, I'm not relevantBEN: all like the fly by night, if you submit, we'll give you the, you know, the UP award.Yeah, exactly. Well, that, that's why I'mMATT: asking because. Okay. Because that's why I'm asking because, there are plenty of, you know, weird little festivals that are floating around the mill fly by night, that,BEN: thatMATT: come, that come and go. And if you want to get a hundred laurels on your poster, if that's, you know, what makes you feel good, then you could definitely do that.But at least what you're saying is like, okay, let's make sure that what's happening with my film has integrity, has, has a shape, and has, something that means something after, you get accepted.BEN: Yes. Oh, a hundred percent.MATT: And the reason I bring that up is because, you know, as a small film festival we struggle with getting we just struggle competing with what's out there on film Freeway, let's put it that way.BEN: You know, because Talk about that. Break itMATT: down. Yeah. You know, it's just, as anyone knows that's trying to do this thing, it's like you hit film freeway and they're a great platform. I'm not, complaining about them at all, but there's just a lot of stuff on there that is more or less as a filmmaker or relevant.I mean, would you agree with that?BEN: Oh, a hundred percent.MATT: Unless all you're wanting to do is just get one laurel to put on your, on your poster, so you know. Maybe they offer a little bit of something. But as a filmmaker, I've been to the ones that don't offer much anything aside from a screening and even, and it's like I'm lucky enough to even go to ones that have physical screenings.A lot these days are just like, oh, we'll slap it online and call it good. So, you know, uh, let's be honest, there's a lot that are just out there and they're just trying to churn. Make some money. So as a small film festival, we're competing with that stuff and we've seen our, uh, submission rate decline, not necessarily a bad thing for us.Mm-hmm. But for other film festivals, I imagine they might be getting frustrated with it. We are actually perfectly comfortable with where we've kind of landed and the groove we've been in since the pandemic. Even a little few years before then, and we haven't tried to kind of like change our recipe much.So we're just happy with the amount that we're getting. We're happy with the amount that we're accepting and we're pleased with how we're screening stuff and the opportunities we're giving people. But I do feel, from what I've seen, it's becoming. Uh, it's just, it's a bit, it's a bit difficult to navigate the slop.Let's just break it down like that. Yeah. And I don't know if you're feeling if you're experiencing the same thing or not. I'd be curious to, to see what you, what you say.BEN: For a hundred percent, so I, I made a few documentaries in the late 20, 2011, 2012, and that was right when Without a box, which was filmed free, right withoutMATT: a box.BEN: Started and it was great because instead of having to burn a bunch of DVDs and physically mail them, you could just upload your film and then submit it to a bunch of festivals. Research a bunch of festivals. Great. Coming back to it now in 2025, it's Scam Central and I think unfortunately one of the things you, you have to spend a bunch of time doing is trying to figure out which of these festivals.First of all, which of these festivals are just legit in that they're not trying to just mm-hmm. Get money from you. They're gonna do a virtual screening and that's it. And then once you even get that breakdown, kinda like you said, which are festivals that are legit, that, that have good people working hard, good intentions, you're proud to show your film there versus they're just churning through submissions and fees.And chart, have a bunch of deadlines and a bunch of different slots you can apply for. They're not the exact opposite of how you describe Borrego Springs.MATT: Yeah. And you have to, as a film festival, at least in our opinion over here, it's like you have to bring that value to the table or else why?Why are you really doing it? And if that answer is like, you're just some guy sitting in an apartment somewhere trying to make a lot of money or a living, I don't know if you can make a lot of money doing this.BEN: Mm-hmm.MATT: Um, but. If you're just doing a film festival that is literally fly by night because you want to cash in, it's like, that's really unfortunate.Now the other side of that coin is like we see a lot of very earnest filmmakers submitting and, uh, they might not be the most technically adept. And they're fresh out of the gate as far as like trying to be a filmmaker. So they're very eager and you know, they just want to tackle everything all at once, and they end up you know, they're not really exercising any discrimination about where their films are going and they end up, you know mm-hmm.Kind of wasting a lot of money in that regard. Submitting, the, submitting, submitting without much, kind of emotional reward from it. And I think,BEN: yeah.MATT: Having some type of like positive feedback about what you're doing is great, even if it's whatever.But. It really helps to have a place to land where you feel like super special and cared for and considered and not just like, oh, I showed up and, it cost me $10 to get into my own movie and it's costing me $20 to, buy a cocktail over here and, you know, those kinds of things.If you're even lucky enough to get that, honestly.BEN: Right. What's your advice on spotting scams when you're applying to festivals?MATT: How to be discriminating as far as like submitting?BEN: Yeah,MATT: I mean I can only approach that from our, my wife and i's own experience trying to get our films into festivals. And with the insight like working on a film festival, I think that helps.But trying to spot ‘em is really, you got to. Try to get a sense if there's any type of community involvement going on mm-hmm. With the festival. And you can usually track that online if you're, you know, if you're a bit sleuthy, and you can find out if it's being supported by the community in some sort of way.Mm-hmm. And it shouldn't take you too long to figure that out with a couple of decent, online searches and follow in a few threads of information. Another thing is, is like if they're kind of nurturing their online presence, you know, it doesn't have to be super sophisticated. You just have to get a vibe that they're trying.And if, if you get that kind of sense, then it's worth the effort. Typically the other thing is you gotta really know what type of film festival that you're submitting to, right? If you're making documentaries, you're not submitting to, you know, a feature film, festival Right. In every festival.So yeah. Core effects. So I, yeah. You know, it's just being, making those obvious decisions. But when you dig beneath that superficial stuff and you get past like the obvious. Really try to get a sense about what you want yourself as a filmmaker when you go to a film festival. And for us it's like getting appreciative eyeballs on the film and giving us fun feedback and having a good time and interacting and, and doing some networking, uh, basically having a party and celebrating your film.Mm-hmm. And I think that weBEN: think about, yeah, sorry, go ahead.MATT: I think that this, that's important for us, so I imagine, and I, I would think that it's important for other people that are making movies as well. Yeah. If we, about, especially independently.BEN: Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's you were alluding to very little money in it, but, um, there are, there are rewards.Yes. One of the biggest of which is seeing your film in a packed house with an engaged audience. What from a screener perspective, from a film festival perspective, what are some tips you would give up and coming filmmakers, young filmmakers on their short films in particular mistakes that you see et cetera, et cetera.MATT: I would say the biggest mistake, especially as a, a young filmmaker, is concentrating so much on the technicalities of the craft and ignoring the storytelling. Um, you know, we, you mentioned, and we mentioned before about like when we started, uh. Kind of submitting to film festivals. This was basically what, like 15 years ago for both of us now, right?2010s, 2012, whatever. Mm-hmm. The technical back then could elevate you above everything else back then. Like today. You know, look, anyone that has a, has a mobile telephone, essentially has the skillset it takes, or not the skillset, but the technical wherewithal.AnBEN: outstanding camera.MATT: Yeah. Yeah. And the point being is like you can go out and you can create something compelling without the gate of the technical getting in the way. Uh, you can capture it. And it doesn't have to look like a million bucks. It's nice if it looks like, you did a big budget thing on a small budget.I'm not knocking the craft of anything. I'm just saying don't be so intent. Or maybe even don't even worry if like, it falls short technically a little bit. ‘cause I will. Guarantee you that a film is gonna get into a film festival based on if it's a compelling story with a good theme or not. And theme is another thing that a lot of folks don't necessarily appreciate, I don't believe.Just to give you a little bit of insight, our film festival. Is the selection committee are not industry professionals. They are regular citizens. They're just watching movies to help out our film festival. Now, try to imagine what that means. It's like folks don't focus on the technical unless it's an absolute train wreck.They will literally sit down and say, is this something I'm interested in and am, am I engaged with the story? Full stop. So that's where, that's the thing you have to focus on. And if you're not doing that as a filmmaker, okay, maybe you're just, you know, maybe your thing is gonna be, you're just a cinematographer, you're just a sound guy.You know, you're more crafty than you are. You know, a storytellers you gotta find that. You gotta find that place. That would be the main thing, because I know we, we. This, I think this is a good thing about our particular film festival is that we have taken in some films that probably weren't like technically as good as they should have been, but because they are just so.Compelling. We don't ignore it like we do pay attention to the craft, but if a story elevates beyond the craft, we're more than happy to bring those folks in. And when those folks come in, they're like, oh my gosh. You know, it was like we're having a hard time getting accepted to film festivals and we're so grateful that you took our film and we can't believe the response that we're getting.Um, they tend to be the best. Most enthusiastic filmmakers and attendance of anybody. Mm-hmm. They're not cynical, you know, they're not burnt out, they're just like over the moon.BEN: They're happy to be there.MATT: Yeah. And it, and they should be. And they're gonna spread the word ‘cause they, they've created something.Yeah. Wonderful. Now, you know, maybe it's underexposed, maybe it's overexposed. Maybe the audio's not great here and maybe the audio's okay there, whatever. It's compelling. That's the main thing. And you and you as a filmmaker really need to start analyzing. My wife and I do this all the time. It's like, what the heck are we making here?Are we making something that is compelling to us personally? Mm-hmm. Are we making something that's compelling to other people? Mm-hmm. It's two different things.BEN: Mm-hmm.MATT: I mean, that's right. So storytelling is hard.BEN: Yeah. That's the craft. It's storytelling.MATT: Yeah.BEN: Yeah, yeah. What does your, so you've got screeners, not industry folks, people just who appreciate films and filmmaking.What does your judging sheet or criteria sheet look like with your screeners, and what's the process that a film goes through?MATT: Here's another thing about our particular film festival. We're completely blind. Submissions. You know, we do not solicit anything. It's like early days we were kind of like poking around and asking for some folks to kind of consider us, but we've kind of let that fall by the wayside.Maybe that's one of the reasons our submissions have declined a little bit over the years. One of the factors, but regardless completely blind submission. So. Stuff comes in. We have a bunch of people that are at the ready and they start watching it, and we basically have a five step process.It's like, consider this, consider this, consider this, consider this. And they do that. And they mark it from scale of one to 10. And, uh, from that we kind of start our, fundamentallyBEN: what are, what are the different, consider this. Like what are the categories?MATT: Let's see. I gotta look it up, but it, it basically breaks down to, okay.Are you sentimentally engaged with this? Meaning, is it, is it a subject matter? I love that questionBEN: that,MATT: yeah, it is a subject matter that you. Like just offhand, like, okay. It's a, it's a nature movie. See, I love nature movies. Oh, I see. Are you, you see what I'm saying?BEN: Predispose, I thought, I thought you meant was the film engagement.MATT: No, no. It, no, it's, it's, it becomes both. It becomes both, right? Yeah. Because your sentimental attraction to something is going to create an engagement. So we kind of wanna know if, uh, our regular folks are like just locking into something because they just love the subject matter.BEN: They make the topic.Yeah.MATT: Yeah. Um. Then from there we do actually talk about craft, even though I was saying before, like, uh, don't worry so much filmmakers about the craft anymore, but we wanna make sure that you can hear it. Okay. It's not a total disaster with the audio and you can see everything. Okay. So we ask them to rate it on that scale.And then, um, other, you know, just more nuancey things is like, okay, is the pacing cool? In other words. Did you find it like it was dragging a lot or it was, too fast? How's the editing style? Those kinds of metrics. And there's actually a few other ones in there as well. So all that is just kind of thrown into the pile.Mm-hmm. And then from there we start to weed that out as we come to after like all the submissions come in and from. Once all the submissions come in and our, our deadline has passed, then the committee jumps in and starts doing a more nuanced type of an analytical thing to the films that have been submitted.But I will say that regardless of how we kind of shuffle things, once the deadline is closed, the people that watch our films and the committee members are usually. Copacetic. There's hardly anything that that changes. And, um. The nice thing about our particular film festival too, is like if you're a filmmaker submitting, you know, I'll just, I'll give you the numbers.We essentially get like 300 submissions, so it's not a lot. Mm-hmm. Um, and out of that 300 we are running a sub, we're running a screening rate anywhere between like 70 to 80 movies a season. Mm-hmm. So that's a really good. That's a really good, uh, opportunity to get accepted at a film festival, and that's why small film festivals might be the best bet for a lot of independent filmmakers, I think.Mm-hmm. You know, because you have that opportunity to get noticed. So I think I might have tangent, I went off tangentially a little bit there, so if you wanna pull me back in.BEN: Yeah. You went off tangentially, but in a great way. I mean that I want to appreciate the transparency with the numbers. I interviewed, um, the director of the Wyoming International Film Festival, a guy named Rudy Womack, and he was the same.He was like, here's our numbers, we publish ‘em. He's like, most festivals don't, but it just demystifies the process. So it's very helpful.MATT: Yeah. And I'll give film pre credit because they allow film festivals like ours to put those numbers online. Mm-hmm. And, and we've done that. If you hit our page on film Freeway, you can start to figure out what we're about without too much trouble.BEN: What are the, what are the different blocks you run?MATT: As far as like thematically?BEN: Yeah. Yeah. Like at a festival. What are the different categories and blocks.MATT: Aha. See now you touched on something that's kind of unique to us. Okay. So, you know, you go to a film festival and it's like, oh, this is the, this is our dog block.Every movie's about dogs.BEN: Right, right.MATT: Or something like that. We don't do that. At all. So we kind of grab bag, the whole thing. It becomes a very eclectic mix of stuff. Mm-hmm. And one of the reasons we've ended up doing that is because our community has kind of demanded it. Whoa.Interestingly enough. Yeah, so they drove the decision to kind of like stop doing thematic blocks and they wanted a better mix of things because they, again, our folks here, they show up for every single block place is packed.BEN: I just, and sorry to interrupt before you finish, like everything you're saying, it just sounds like there's an iter iterative feedback loop.Between the community in the festival, the film? Absolutely in the festival. The volunteers in the festival. So I just wanna highlight that ‘cause I'm loving everything you're saying.MATT: Well, again, like I said, it's the secret sauce. It's our, it's our weapon that we have our secret weapon that allows us to kind of like elevate beyond our like humble budget.Right.BEN: The community is, but community is letting you know, we don't want thematic blocks.MATT: Yeah. The community came in and said, we, we want mix. So when we sit down and we're sitting through movies, it's like. If we're watching something that we're not in tune with thematically, then you know, you would have to sit there for like an hour and a half and just kind of tolerate it.Whereas now, if like a movie comes on about dogs and for some reason you're just a weirdo and you don't like dogs, that movie will come and go and now you're onto something else, right? Mm-hmm. So. Yeah like you just mentioned, it, it really becomes a cooperative effort between the community, the film festival itself and, and even the filmmakers.And we're kind of proud that it is a little bit ramshackle in that way ‘cause it creates a very organic vibe and weirdly enough. Like at the end of it all because it, it's a little bit random. It is like how folks get scheduled.BEN: Mm-hmm.MATT: Themes are emergent anyway.BEN: Mm-hmm. It's, peopleMATT: start creating patterns that didn't exist and then it sometimes that becomes really profound.It's like, didn't even think of that. It's brilliant. However oh, the other thing about programming too, that we do specifically for our film festival is that we. We ask our filmmakers, say like, Hey, are you planning on coming here? And if they, if they are planning on coming here, we try our, our level hardest to make sure that we program their films to match their schedule, right?So we don't lay out our program and say, okay, you were scheduled for, you know, Wednesday at 2:00 PM. It's like, well, I'm only free on the weekend. You know, and you wouldn't, you would never be able to attend. We ask first to say, do you think you're gonna be able to be here? And if they say yes, then we try to accommodate as best we can.So again, it's, it's collaboration across the board from filmmakers down to the, to the citizens of our small town.BEN: One of the things I read somewhere, or heard somewhere, is that it's much more advantageous to apply for the early bird deadline. What's your take on that?MATT: For our film festival, not so much, but I, I definitely adhere to that strategy as a filmmaker.If nothing else, it's budget conscious, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's cheaper usually under the initial deadlines you know, you have to take advantage of that. The other thing I guess is like, I will say from our experience, uh, with our particular film festival, if you get it in under the early bird deadline, at least it's there.And you know, you've basically got like four or five, six months for the submission. Crew for that particular film festival to kind of think about it. Whereas if it comes in a last minute, you're not really gonna get as much consideration. It's just gonna have to be more like, uh, an initial one-off type of decision.SoBEN: are there other, and I mean the, the most important advice right, is always make a good movie outside of the movie. Yeah. Are there other ancillary things that. Can move the needle at all. Cover letters, director statement, press kit, stuff like that, or it's not, uh, it's negligible.MATT: Hmm. It's neg negligible to an extent in so much, it depends on how you frame it as the filmmaker.Mm. And let me, I'll try to explain. So every year as a film festival, you just basically get cover letters. It's like, oh, take my film please. It's about this, it's about that. But it's a cover lever, co cover letter. It's, uh, copy and pasted. You can tell. You can just, you just know. It's like, okay, they're making an overture to us, but they're also making an overture to like a hundred other film festivals.It's like if you're gonna write to a film festival and say you want in, just make sure that you actually acknowledge who you are sending your film to. Don't just say, Hey, Borrego Springs, I wanna be in your film. I like Borrego Springs, mm-hmm. My parents went there once and I've always been com I've always been interested in the desert and how awesome would it be?See, that tells us that you're paying attention. Right?BEN: Mm-hmm.MATT: That you're trying. We're trying. We just want the filmmakers to try as well, as far as like trying to make any requests to get preferential treatment, and it's totally cool to ask for preferential treatment. By the way. You can say, I see that you're a small community.I just made a film that's, that takes place in a small community. We might be a really good fit. That kind of thing matters, right? An email overture works. Yes. An email overture doesn't work. No. It's both things at once, depending on, it really depends on how you write that letter. So if you wanna invest the time and effort to try to impress a film festival, just make sure that.You understand what that film festival is and really think about if what you're offering, the film festival is something that they might want. And if you can, if you see a, a common thread there, write about it in a letter. And even if it's just one sentence, it's like, then we know on our side that this person's paying attention and that that kind of matters.It does matter. So at the end of the day, when you're take, when you're kind of like really trying to figure out your cutoff, if your little film happens to be on the bubble, guess what? It might get into film festival, right? Mm-hmm. Because you said that you have a connection to this place, and I think that's fair.I mean, what, does that make sense?BEN: Yeah, for sure. So the festival is coming up in January, is that correct?MATT: Yeah, we're in the middle of gearing up for it right now, as a matter of fact. Nice. I gotta run out to the, to town here in like a, like 15 minutes actually to do some stuff for the film festival.So yeah, it's, it's, well, today we're shooting, um, a little promo, uh, thing that we're gonna run, run during. At the beginning of the blocks, and I'll be doing that with Fred G the chairman of the board. Yeah, that's nice, fun stuff. We try to have fun with things, so. Yeah.BEN: We do littleMATT: skits and whatnot during the award ceremony.It's, it's goofy. I love it. Cheesy as hell, but we like doing it, soBEN: I love it. Oh, that's actually something that I sort of, in, in, in my cover letters, which I try to. You know, write tailored to the festival. Especially the ones in California say, well, the film's about this improv duo and mm-hmm. We accepted, we'll come and we would love to do a little improv performance for the festival attendees.Um,MATT: I will say this too, because we're such what you just mentioned. I just want to piggyback on that for a second. So you said in my cover letter I'll say, we're willing to attend. It's like if you say that in a cover letter and you mean it, you, and you're willing to do that. Yeah. That's good. Especially for a festival like ours.We want filmmakers to come here. We wanna treat ‘em to a good time. We want them to be part of something that's. Big in the community and the community wants that as well. So if you're here and you're willing to be here, then that matters.BEN: I love it. Well, I mean, everything I'm hearing about Borrego, like literally I just reached out ‘cause I wanted to just talk film festival submissions, but now I'm like, Ooh, next year I'm definitely gonna submit to, uh, to Borrego.MATT: Yeah, I know this was supposed to be like a strategy session and here I am bragging about the film festival. That'sBEN: No, no. It's exactly what I, what I want. It's great. Last question. What's a, what's a. Documentary that blew you away recently?MATT: So, okay, so last year at our film festival, there was this really cool documentary called Dale. Have you seen it?BEN: No. Tell me about it.MATT: So Dale is like this older woman and she's the first basic Asian American that was in the, um, uh, Los Angeles orchestra, the Los Angeles Phil Harmonic. Okay. And essentially all it is is.I say all it is like, it's a very profound kind of retrospective of what she did to get to that point and you know, her views on things and it's just, and the music that was involved, just very beautiful, very poignant and simple. And. So when, when you have like movies like this and it's, it's not even a 10 minute long movie, it's under 10 minutes.Mm-hmm. When it just touches on these really profound themes and it's moving in a way that catches you off guard. Those are the things that you can't ignore, right? Mm-hmm. And this is actually, Dale's a good example because, you know, it's not always shot pristinely, it doesn't have to look, perfect. But the story reaches kind of a transcendent level that is really, really nice. So if I would throw in Dale and let me see, uh, the the director of that, his name was Justin Strike. So if anyone, I think it's still on the film festival circuit, so you have that opportunity. Go check it out.BEN: Love it. Love it. Love it. Matt, thank you so much for taking the time. For people who are interested in Borrego Springs Film Festival, either to attend, to submit, et cetera, what where should they go and where can they find you?MATT: Oh, online search, just, you know, Borrego Springs Film Festival. It'll lead you to all the places you need to be.And, uh, yeah, just track us down that way. Pretty straightforward. Take a peek at what we're offering. We keep mm-hmm uh, we keep an archive of the stuff we've done online so you can pull back the curtain and look and say, okay, is this kind of something I'd be interested in?Um, you can get a vibe for it that way. And, uh, that's, yeah, that's kind of it. That's kind of it. I think we've tried hard to make sure that what we offered is pretty transparent, and if you take a look at it and you think it's a good fit, and by all means, send us your stuff. Including you, by the way, so, you know.Yeah, no, you have to submit as well now would definitelyBEN: be submitting early bird deadline next year. Perfect. I wish I, if I was still in LA I'd come down, uh, next month and, and just go to this upcoming festival. It sounds wonderful.MATT: Well, I know. Why don't you just do it anyway?BEN: Yeah, I'll give you aMATT: VIP pass.I that,BEN: listen, I might take you up on it. I still all, well, if you do, it'sMATT: we'll be waiting for you.BEN: You, you know, we're, we're documentary filmmakers. We always have a couple irons in the fire. So I do have one kind of idea of, uh, another doc I'd like to shoot out on la maybe I'll combine it. I'll let you know.MATT: Perfect excuse.BEN: Hey, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm so glad um, we connected and uh, just listen. Our pleasure be fantastic.MATT: Yeah, we're, we're happy as a film festival to be asked to do this kind of thing, so thank you. And um, best of luck to your film too. I'm gonna check it out, so be sure to submit it straight away.BEN: I will. Thank you so much, Matt. Alright man. Thanks.BEN: That was my interview with Matt of the Borrego Springs Film Festival. Hope you enjoyed, please forward to at least one person. Have a great week. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit benbo.substack.com

Get this whole, show FREE on Patreon! Click HERE for a 7-day free trialBen Glaze and EZ lean into fair-use laws to present a WEEKLY review of one of America's top radio shows. Heard all across the US on about 30 radio stations, The Free Beer and Hot Wings Show has grown steadily since it's inception in the late 1990's.In this FULL show on Patreon!Topics:*Ben has another example of "bad imaging" on the FBHW show.*EZ and Ben LOVE when Maitland reads "fun facts" during "Name That Blank" and the crew responds with "Hmm?" and "Wild!"*EZ and Ben discuss how not everyone needs a microphone on the FBHW Show.*Speculation about who's going to be let go first as the lights start to go out on the FBHW Show.*Still no mention of a new FBHW contract with Townsquare.*The gang tries a new segment that requires the audience to call in and sing what they are currently doing.*Kelly's new BF lives in Spain.*Free Beer snarks out at HW because he doesn't like HW's long-winded storytelling.*The crew actually stumbled onto a moment that was interesting. It led to Kelly Cheese looking even dumber than normal, but it was interesting...that is until Free Beer started doing more Q and A about keychains.*Hot Wings gets a HUGE laugh response with a throwaway joke.*Hot on the heels of last episode's FB temper-tantrum when he was interrupted, EZ features a clip of FB badly interrupting Steve.*The Steve Cropper Incident*Another "Free Beer Soap Box" moment.Our Sponsors:* Check out Secret Nature and use my code ZANE for a great deal: https://secretnature.com* Check out Uncommon Goods: https://uncommongoods.com/zaneSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-eric-zane-show-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Trusting the process is a really important way to free yourself, and the film, to discover what it is.Viridiana Lieberman is an award-winning documentary filmmaker. She recently edited the Netflix sensation The Perfect Neighbor.In this interview we talk:* Viri's love of the film Contact* Immersion as the core goal in her filmmaking* Her editing tools and workflow* Film school reflections* The philosophy and process behind The Perfect Neighbor — crafting a fully immersive, evidence-only narrative and syncing all audio to its original image.* Her thoughts on notes and collaboration* Techniques for seeing a cut with fresh eyesYou can see all of Viri's credits on her IMD page here.Thanks for reading The Creativity, Education, and Leadership Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Here is an AI-generated transcript of our conversation. Don't come for me.BEN: Viri, thank you so much for joining us today.VIRI: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.BEN: And I always like to start with a fun question. So senior year of high school, what music were you listening to?VIRI: Oh my goodness. Well, I'm class of 2000, so I mean. I don't even know how to answer this question because I listen to everything.I'm like one of those people I was raving, so I had techno in my system. I have a lot of like, um. The, like, everything from Baby Ann to Tsta. Like, there was like, there was a lot, um, Oak and like Paul Oak and Full, there was like techno. Okay. Then there was folk music because I loved, so Ani DeFranco was the soundtrack of my life, you know, and I was listening to Tori Amos and all that.Okay. And then there's like weird things that slip in, like fuel, you know, like whatever. Who was staying? I don't remember when they came out. But the point is there was like all these intersections, whether I was raving or I was at Warp Tour or I was like at Lili Fair, all of those things were happening in my music taste and whenever I get to hear those songs and like that, that back late nineties, um, rolling into the Ox.Yeah.BEN: I love the Venn diagram of techno and folk music.VIRI: Yeah.BEN: Yeah. What, are you a fan of the film inside Lou and Davis?VIRI: Uh, yes. Yes. I need to watch it again. I watched it once and now you're saying it, and I'm like writing it on my to-dos,BEN: but yes, it, it, the first time I saw it. I saw in the East Village, actually in the theater, and I just, I'm a Cohen Brothers fan, but I didn't love it.Mm-hmm. But it, it stayed on my mind and yeah. Now I probably rewatch it once a year. It might, yeah. In my, in my, on my list, it might be their best film. It's so good. Oh,VIRI: now I'm gonna, I'm putting it on my, I'm literally writing it on my, um, post-it to watch it.BEN: I'mVIRI: always looking for things to watch in the evening.BEN: What, what are some of the docs that kind of lit your flame, that really turned you on?VIRI: Uh, this is one of those questions that I, full transparency, get very embarrassed about because I actually did not have a path of documentary set for me from my film Loving Passion. I mean, when I graduated film school, the one thing I knew I didn't wanna do was documentary, which is hilarious now.Hilarious. My parents laugh about it regularly. Um. Because I had not had a good documentary education. I mean, no one had shown me docs that felt immersive and cinematic. I mean, I had seen docs that were smart, you know, that, but, but they felt, for me, they didn't feel as emotional. They felt sterile. Like there were just, I had seen the most cliched, basic, ignorant read of doc.And so I, you know, I dreamed of making space epics and giant studio films. Contact was my favorite movie. I so like there was everything that about, you know, when I was in film school, you know, I was going to see those movies and I was just chasing that high, that sensory high, that cinematic experience.And I didn't realize that documentaries could be. So it's not, you know, ever since then have I seen docs that I think are incredible. Sure. But when I think about my origin tale, I think I was always chasing a pretty. Not classic, but you know, familiar cinematic lens of the time that I was raised in. But it was fiction.It was fiction movies. And I think when I found Docs, you know, when I was, the very long story short of that is I was looking for a job and had a friend who made docs and I was like, put me in coach, you know, as an editor. And she was like, you've never cut a documentary before. I love you. Uh, but not today.But no, she hired me as an archival producer and then I worked my way up and I said, no, okay, blah, blah, blah. So that path showed me, like I started working on documentaries, seeing more documentaries, and then I was always chasing that cinema high, which by the way, documentaries do incredibly, you know, and have for many decades.But I hadn't met them yet. And I think that really informs. What I love to do in Docs, you know, I mean, I think like I, there's a lot that I like to, but one thing that is very important to me is creating that journey, creating this, you know, following the emotion, creating big moments, you know, that can really consume us.And it's not just about, I mean, not that there are films that are important to me, just about arguments and unpacking and education. At the same time, we have the opportunity to do so much more as storytellers and docs and we are doing it anyway. So that's, that's, you know, when, it's funny, when light my fire, I immediately think of all the fiction films I love and not docs, which I feel ashamed about.‘cause now I know, you know, I know so many incredible documentary filmmakers that light my fire. Um, but my, my impulse is still in the fiction world.BEN: Used a word that it's such an important word, which is immersion. And I, I first saw you speak, um, a week or two ago at the doc NYC Pro panel for editors, documentary editors about the perfect neighbor, which I wanna talk about in a bit because talk about a completely immersive experience.But thank you first, uh, contact, what, what is it about contact that you responded to?VIRI: Oh my goodness. I, well, I watched it growing up. I mean, with my dad, we're both sci-fi people. Like he got me into that. I mean, we're both, I mean he, you know, I was raised by him so clearly it stuck around contact for me. I think even to this day is still my favorite movie.And it, even though I'm kind of a style nut now, and it's, and it feels classic in its approach, but. There's something about all the layers at play in that film. Like there is this crazy big journey, but it's also engaging in a really smart conversation, right? Between science and faith and some of the greatest lines from that film.Are lines that you can say to yourself on the daily basis to remind yourself of like, where we are, what we're doing, why we're doing it, even down to the most basic, you know, funny, I thought the world was what we make it, you know, it's like all of these lines from contact that stick with me when he says, you know, um, did you love your father?Prove it. You know, it's like, what? What is proof? You know? So there were so many. Moments in that film. And for me, you know, climbing into that vessel and traveling through space and when she's floating and she sees the galaxy and she says they should have sent a poet, you know, and you're thinking about like the layers of this experience and how the aliens spoilers, um, you know, show up and talk to her in that conversation herself.Anyways, it's one of those. For me, kind of love letters to the human race and earth and what makes us tick and the complexity of identity all in this incredible journey that feels so. Big yet is boiled down to Jody Foster's very personal narrative, right? Like, it's like all, it just checks so many boxes and still feels like a spectacle.And so the balance, uh, you know, I, I do feel my instincts normally are to zoom in and feel incredibly personal. And I love kind of small stories that represent so much and that film in so many ways does that, and all the other things too. So I'm like, how did we get there? But I really, I can't, I don't know what it is.I can't shake that film. It's not, you know, there's a lot of films that have informed, you know, things I love and take me out to the fringe and take me to the mainstream and, you know, on my candy and, you know, all those things. And yet that, that film checks all the boxes for me.BEN: I remember seeing it in the theaters and you know everything you said.Plus you have a master filmmaker at the absolute top Oh god. Of his class. Oh my,VIRI: yes,BEN: yes. I mean, that mirror shot. Know, know, I mean, my jaw was on the ground because this is like, right, right. As CGI is started. Yes. So, I mean, I'm sure you've seen the behind the scenes of how theyVIRI: Yeah.BEN: Incredible.VIRI: Years.Years. We would be sitting around talking about how no one could figure out how he did it for years. Anybody I met who saw contact would be like, but how did they do the mirror shot? Like I nobody had kind of, yeah. Anyways, it was incredible. And you know, it's, and I,BEN: I saw, I saw it just with some civilians, right?Like the mirror shot. They're like, what are you talking about? The what? Huh?VIRI: Oh, it's so funny you bring that up because right now, you know, I went a friend, I have a friend who's a super fan of Wicked. We went for Wicked for Good, and there is a sequence in that film where they do the mirror jot over and over and over.It's like the, it's like the. Special device of that. It feels that way. That it's like the special scene with Glenda and her song. And someone next to me was sitting there and I heard him under his breath go,wow.Like he was really having a cinematic. And I wanted to lean over and be like, watch contact, like, like the first time.I saw it was there and now it's like people have, you know, unlocked it and are utilizing it. But it was, so, I mean, also, let's talk about the opening sequence of contact for a second. Phenomenal. Because I, I don't think I design, I've ever seen anything in cinema in my life like that. I if for anybody who's listening to this, even if you don't wanna watch the entire movie, which of course I'm obviously pitching you to do.Watch the opening. Like it, it's an incredible experience and it holds up and it's like when, yeah. Talk about attention to detail and the love of sound design and the visuals, but the patience. You wanna talk about trusting an audience, sitting in a theater and that silence Ah, yeah. Heaven film heaven.BEN: I mean, that's.That's one of the beautiful things that cinema does in, in the theater. Right. It just, you're in, you're immersed in this case, you know, pulling away from earth through outer space at however many, you know, hundreds of millions of miles an hour. You can't get that anywhere else. Yeah. That feeling,VIRI: that film is like all the greatest hits reel of.Storytelling gems. It's like the adventure, the love, the, you know, the, the complicated kind of smart dialogue that we can all understand what it's saying, but it's, but it's doing it through the experience of the story, you know, and then someone kind of knocks it outta the park without one quote where you gasp and it's really a phenomenal.Thing. Yeah. I, I've never, I haven't talked about contact as much in ages. Thank you for this.BEN: It's a great movie. It's there, and there were, there were two other moments in that movie, again when I saw it, where it's just like, this is a, a master storyteller. One is, yeah. When they're first like trying to decode the image.Mm-hmm. And you see a swastika.VIRI: Yeah. Oh yeah. And you're like,BEN: what the, what the f**k? That was like a total left turn. Right. But it's, it's, and I think it's, it's from the book, but it's like the movie is, it's, it's, you know, it's asking these questions and then you're like totally locked in, not expecting.You know, anything from World War II to be a part of this. And of course in the movie the, go ahead.VIRI: Yeah, no, I was gonna say, but the seed of thatBEN: is in the first shot,VIRI: scientifically educating. Oh yes. Well, the sensory experience, I mean, you're like, your heart stops and you get full Bo chills and then you're scared and you know, you're thinking a lot of things.And then when you realize the science of it, like the first thing that was broadcast, like that type of understanding the stakes of our history in a space narrative. And, you know, it, it just, there's so much. You know, unfurling in your mind. Yeah. In that moment that is both baked in from your lived experiences and what you know about the world, and also unlocking, so what's possible and what stakes have already been outside of this fiction, right?Mm-hmm. Outside of the book, outside of the telling of this, the reality of what has already happened in the facts of it. Yeah. It's really amazing.BEN: And the other moment we're just, and now, you know, being a filmmaker, you look back and I'm sure this is, it falls neatly and at the end of the second act. But when Tom scars, you know, getting ready to go up on the thing and then there's that terrorist incident or whatever, and the whole thing just collapses, the whole, um, sphere collapses and you just like, wait, what?Is that what's gonna happen now?VIRI: Yeah, like a hundred million dollars in it. It does too. It just like clink pun. Yeah. Everything.BEN: Yeah.VIRI: Think they'll never build it again. I mean, you just can't see what's coming after that and how it went down, who it happened to. I mean, that's the magic of that film, like in the best films.Are the ones where every scene, every character, it has so much going into it. Like if somebody paused the film there and said, wait, what's happening? And you had to explain it to them, it would take the entire movie to do it, you know, which you're like, that's, we're in it. Yeah. Anyway, so that's a great moment too, where I didn't, and I remember when they reveal spoilers again, uh, that there's another one, but when he is zooming in, you know, and you're like, oh, you know, it just, it's, yeah.Love it. It's wonderful. Now, I'm gonna watch that tonight too. IBEN: know, I, I haven't probably, I probably haven't watched that movie in 10 years, but now I gotta watch it again.VIRI: Yeah.BEN: Um, okay, so let's talk doc editing. Yes. What, um, I always like to, I heard a quote once that something about when, when critics get together, they talk meaning, and when artists get together, they talk paint.So let's talk paint for a second. What do you edit on?VIRI: I cut mainly on Avid and Premier. I, I do think of myself as more of an avid lady, but there's been a lot of probably the films that have done the most. I cut on Premier, and by that I mean like, it's interesting that I always assume Avid is my standard yet that most of the things that I love most, I cut on Premiere right now.I, I toggle between them both multiple projects on both, on both, um, programs and they're great. I love them equal for different reasons. I'm aBEN: big fan of Avid. I think it gets kind of a, a bad rap. Um, what, what are the benefits of AVID versus pr? I've never used Premier, but I was a big final cut seven person.So everybody has said that. Premier kind of emulates Final cut. Seven.VIRI: I never made a past seven. It's funny, I recently heard people are cutting on Final Cut Pro again, which A adds off. But I really, because I thought that ship had sailed when they went away from seven. So with, I will say like the top line things for me, you know, AVID forces you to control every single thing you're doing, which I actually think it can feel hindering and intimidating to some folks, but actually is highly liberating once you learn how to use it, which is great.It's also wonderful for. Networks. I mean, you can send a bin as a couple kilobyte. Like the idea that the shared workflow, when I've been on series or features with folks, it's unbeatable. Uh, you know, it can be cumbersome in like getting everything in there and stuff like that and all, and, but, but it kind of forces you to set up yourself for success, for online, for getting everything out.So, and there's a lot of good things. So then on conversely Premier. It's amazing ‘cause you can hit the ground running. You just drag everything in and you go. The challenge of course is like getting it out. Sometimes that's when you kind of hit the snaps. But I am impressed when I'm working with multiple frame rates, frame sizes, archival for many decades that I can just bring it into Premier and go and just start cutting.And you know, also it has a lot of intuitive nature with other Adobe Pro, you know, uh, applications and all of this, which is great. There's a lot of shortcuts. I mean, they're getting real. Slick with a lot of their new features, which I have barely met. I'm like an archival, I'm like a ancient picture editor lady from the past, like people always teach me things.They're just like, you know, you could just, and I'm like, what? But I, so I guess I, you know, I don't have all the tech guru inside talk on that, but I think that when I'm doing short form, it does feel like it's always premier long form. Always seems to avid. Team stuff feels avid, you know, feature, low budge features where they're just trying to like make ends meet.Feel Premier, and I think there's an enormous accessibility with Premier in that regard. But I still feel like Avid is a studios, I mean, a, a studio, well, who knows? I'm cut in the studios. But an industry standard in a lot of ways it still feels that way.BEN: Yeah, for sure. How did you get into editing?VIRI: I went to film school and while I was there, I really like, we did everything.You know, we learned how to shoot, we learned everything. Something about editing was really thrilling to me. I, I loved the puzzle of it, you know, I loved putting pieces together. We did these little funny exercises where we would take a movie and cut our own trailer and, you know, or they'd give us all the same footage and we cut our scene from it and.Itwas really incredible to see how different all those scenes were, and I loved finding ways to multipurpose footage, make an entire tone feel differently. You know, like if we're cutting a scene about a bank robbery, like how do you all of a sudden make it feel, you know, like romantic, you know, or whatever.It's like how do we kind of play with genre and tone and how much you can reinvent stuff, but it was really structure and shifting things anyways, it really, I was drawn to it and I had fun editing my things and helping other people edit it. I did always dream of directing, which I am doing now and I'm excited about, but I realized that my way in with editing was like learning how to do a story in that way, and it will always be my language.I think even as I direct or write or anything, I'm really imagining it as if I'm cutting it, and that could change every day, but like when I'm out shooting. I always feel like it's my superpower because when I'm filming it's like I know what I have and how I'll use it and I can change that every hour.But the idea of kind of knowing when you've got it or what it could be and having that reinvented is really incredible. So got into edit. So left film school. And then thought and loved editing, but wasn't like, I'm gonna be an editor. I was still very much on a very over, you know what? I guess I would say like, oh, I was gonna say Overhead, broad bird's eye.I was like, no, I'm gonna go make movies and then I'll direct ‘em and onward, but work, you know, worked in post houses, overnights, all that stuff and PA and try made my own crappy movies and you know, did a lot of that stuff and. It kept coming back to edit. I mean, I kept coming back to like assistant jobs and cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, and it just felt like something that I had a skill for, but I didn't know what my voice was in that.Like I didn't, it took me a long time to realize I could have a voice as an editor, which was so dumb, and I think I wasted so much time thinking that like I was only search, you know, like that. I didn't have that to bring. That editing was just about. Taking someone else's vision. You know, I'm not a set of hands like I'm an artist as well.I think we all are as editors and I was very grateful that not, not too long into, you know, when I found the doc path and I went, okay, I think this is where I, I can rock this and I'm pretty excited about it. I ended up working with a small collection of directors who all. Respected that collaboration.Like they were excited for what I do and what I bring to it and felt, it made me feel like we were peers working together, which was my fantasy with how film works. And I feel like isn't always the constant, but I've been spoiled and now it's what I expect and what I want to create for others. And you know, I hope there's more of us out there.So it's interesting because my path to editing. Was like such a, a practical one and an emotional one, and an ego one, and a, you know, it's like, it's like all these things that have led me to where I am and the perfect neighbor is such a culmination of all of that. For sure.BEN: Yeah. And, and I want to get into it, uh, first the eternal question.Yeah. Film school worth it or not worth it?VIRI: I mean, listen, I. We'll share this. I think I've shared this before, but relevant to the fact I'll share it because I think we can all learn from each other's stories. I did not want to go to college. Okay? I wanted to go straight to la. I was like, I'm going to Hollywood.I wanted to make movies ever since I was a kid. This is what I'm gonna do, period. I come from a family of teachers. All of my parents are teachers. My parents divorced. I have my stepparent is teacher, like everybody's a teacher. And they were like, no. And not just a teacher. My mom and my dad are college professors, so they were like college, college, college.I sabotaged my SATs. I did not take them. I did not want to go to college. I was like, I am going to Los Angeles. Anyways, uh, my parents applied for me. To an accredited arts college that, and they were like, it's a three year try semester. You'll shoot on film, you can do your, you know, and they submitted my work from high school when I was in TV production or whatever.Anyways, they got me into this little college, and when I look back, I know that that experience was really incredible. I mean, while I was there, I was counting the days to leave, but I know that it gave me not only the foundation of. You know, learning, like, I mean, we were learning film at the time. I don't know what it's like now, but like we, you know, I learned all the different mediums, which was great on a vocational level, you know, but on top of that, they're just throwing cans of film at us and we're making all the mistakes we need to make to get where we need to get.And the other thing that's happening is there's also like the liberal arts, this is really, sounds like a teacher's kid, what I'm about to say. But like, there's also just the level of education To be smarter and learn more about the world, to inform your work doesn't mean that you can't. You can't skip college and just go out there and find your, and learn what you wanna learn in the stories that you journey out to tell.So I feel really torn on this answer because half of me is like. No, you don't need college. Like just go out and make stuff and learn what you wanna learn. And then the other half of me have to acknowledge that, like, I think there was a foundation built in that experience, in that transitional time of like semi-structure, semi independence, you know, like all the things that come with college.It's worth it, but it's expensive as heck. And I certainly, by the time I graduated, film wasn't even a thing and I had to learn digital out in the world. And. I think you can work on a film set and learn a hell of a lot more than you'll ever learn in a classroom. And at the same time, I really love learning.So, you know, my, I think I, my parents were right, they know it ‘cause I went back to grad school, so that was a shock for them. But I think, but yeah, so I, I get, what I would say is, it really is case, this is such a cop out of an answer, case by case basis. Ask yourself, you know, if you need that time and if you, if you aren't gonna go.You need to put in the work. You have to really like go out, go on those sets, work your tail off, seek out the books, read the stuff, you know, and no one's gonna hand you anything. And my stories are a hell of a lot, I think smarter and eloquent because of the education I had. Yeah.BEN: So you shuttle on, what was the school, by the way?VIRI: Well, it was called the, it was called the International Fine Arts College. It no longer exists because Art Institute bought it. It's now called the Miami International University of Art and Design, and they bought it the year I graduated. So I went to this tiny little arts college, uh, but graduated from this AI university, which my parents were like, okay.Um, but we were, it was a tiny little college owned by this man who would invite all of us over to his mansion for brunch every year. I mean, it was very strange, but cool. And it was mainly known for, I think fashion design and interior design. So the film kids, we all kind of had, it was an urban campus in Miami and we were all like kind of in a wado building on the side, and it was just kind of a really funky, misfit feeling thing that I thought was, now when I look back, I think was like super cool.I mean, they threw cans of film at us from the very first semester. There was no like, okay, be here for two years and earn your opportunity. We were making stuff right away and all of our teachers. All of our professors were people who were working in the field, like they were ones who were, you know, writing.They had written films and fun fact of the day, my, my cinematography professor was Sam Beam from Iron and Wine. If anybody knows Iron and Wine, like there's like, there's like we, we had crazy teachers that we now realize were people who were just probably trying to pay their bills while they were on their journey, and then they broke out and did their thing after we were done.BEN: Okay, so shooting on film. Yeah. What, um, was it 16 or 35? 16. And then how are you doing sound? No, notVIRI: 35, 16. Yeah. I mean, we had sound on Dax, you know, like we were recording all the mm-hmm. Oh, when we did the film. Yeah, yeah. Separate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did the Yeah. Syncs soundBEN: into a We did a,VIRI: yeah, we did, we did one.We shot on a Bolex, I think, if I remember it right. It did like a tiny, that probably was eight, you know? But the point is we did that on. The flatbed. After that, we would digitize and we would cut on media 100, which was like this. It was, I think it was called the, I'm pretty sure it was called Media 100.It was like this before avid, you know. A more archaic editing digital program that, so we did the one, the one cut and splice version of our, our tiny little films. And then we weren't on kind of beautiful steam backs or anything. It was like, you know, it was much, yeah, smaller. But we had, but you know, we raced in the changing tents and we did, you know, we did a lot of film, love and fun.And I will tell you for your own amusement that we were on set once with somebody making their short. The girl at the AC just grabbed, grabbed the film, what's, oh my God, I can't even believe I'm forgetting the name of it. But, um, whatever the top of the camera grabbed it and thought she had unlocked it, like unhinged it and just pulled it out after all the film just come spooling out on set.And we were like, everybody just froze and we were just standing there. It was like a bad sketch comedy, like we're all just standing there in silence with like, just like rolling out of the camera. I, I'll never forget it.BEN: Nightmare. Nightmare. I, you know, you said something earlier about when you're shooting your own stuff.Being an editor is a little bit of a superpower because you know, oh, I'm gonna need this, I'm gonna need that. And, and for me it's similar. It's especially similar. Like, oh, we didn't get this. I need to get an insert of this ‘cause I know I'm probably gonna want that. I also feel like, you know, I came up, um, to instill photography, 35 millimeter photography, and then when I got into filmmaking it was, um, digital, uh, mini DV tape.So, but I feel like the, um, the structure of having this, you know, you only have 36 shots in a still camera, so you've gotta be sure that that carried over even to my shooting on digital, of being meticulous about setting up the shot, knowing what I need. Whereas, you know, younger people who have just been shooting digital their whole lives that just shoot everything and we'll figure it out later.Yeah. Do do you, do you feel you had that Advant an advantage? Yes. Or sitting on film gave you some advantages?VIRI: I totally, yes. I also am a firm believer and lover of intention. Like I don't this whole, like we could just snap a shot and then punch in and we'll, whatever. Like it was my worst nightmare when people started talking about.We'll shoot scenes and something, it was like eight K, so we can navigate the frame. And I was like, wait, you're not gonna move the camera again. Like, it just, it was terrifying. So, and we passed that, but now the AI stuff is getting dicey, but the, I think that you. I, I am pretty romantic about the hands-on, I like books with paper, you know, like, I like the can, the cinematographer to capture, even if it's digital.And those benefits of the digital for me is like, yes, letting it roll, but it's not about cheating frames, you know, like it's about, it's about the accessibility of being able to capture things longer, or the technology to move smoother. These are good things. But it's not about, you know, simplifying the frame in something that we need to, that is still an art form.Like that's a craft. That's a craft. And you could argue that what we choose, you know, photographers, the choice they make in Photoshop is the new version of that is very different. Like my friends who are dps, you know, there's always like glasses the game, right? The lenses are the game. It's like, it's not about filters In posts, that was always our nightmare, right?The old fix it and post everybody's got their version of their comic strip that says Fix it and post with everything exploding. It's like, no, that's not what this is about. And so, I mean, I, I think I'll always be. Trying to, in my brain fight the good fight for the craftiness of it all because I'm so in love with everything.I miss film. I'm sad. I miss that time. I mean, I think I, it still exists and hopefully someday I'll have the opportunity that somebody will fund something that I'm a part of that is film. And at the same time there's somewhere in between that still feels like it's honoring that freshness. And, and then now there's like the, yeah, the new generation.It's, you know, my kids don't understand that I have like. Hand them a disposable camera. We'll get them sometimes for fun and they will also like click away. I mean, the good thing you have to wind it so they can't, they can't ruin it right away, but they'll kind of can't fathom that idea. And um, and I love that, where you're like, we only get 24 shots.Yeah, it's veryBEN: cool. So you said you felt the perfect neighbor, kind of, that was the culmination of all your different skills in the craft of editing. Can you talk a little bit about that?VIRI: Yes. I think that I spent, I think all the films, it's like every film that I've had the privilege of being a part of, I have taken something like, there's like some tool that was added to the tool belt.Maybe it had to do with like structure or style or a specific build to a quote or, or a device or a mechanism in the film, whatever it is. It was the why of why that felt right. That would kind of be the tool in the tool belt. It wouldn't just be like, oh, I learned how to use this new toy. It was like, no, no.There's some kind of storytelling, experience, technique, emotion that I felt that Now I'm like, okay, how do I add that in to everything I do? And I want every film to feel specific and serve what it's doing. But I think a lot of that sent me in a direction of really always approaching a project. Trying to meet it for like the, the work that only it can do.You know, it's like, it's not about comps. It's not about saying like, oh, we're making a film that's like, fill in the blank. I'm like, how do we plug and play the elements we have into that? It's like, no, what are the elements we have and how do we work with them? And that's something I fought for a lot on all the films I've been a part of.Um, and by that I mean fight for it. I just mean reminding everybody always in the room that we can trust the audience, you know, that we can. That, that we should follow the materials what, and work with what we have first, and then figure out what could be missing and not kind of IME immediately project what we think it needs to be, or it should be.It's like, no, let's discover what it is and then that way we will we'll appreciate. Not only what we're doing in the process, but ultimately we don't even realize what it can do for what it is if we've never seen it before, which is thrilling. And a lot of those have been a part of, there have been pockets of being able to do that.And then usually near the end there's a little bit of math thing that happens. You know, folks come in the room and they're trying to, you know, but what if, and then, but other people did. Okay, so all you get these notes and you kind of reel it in a little bit and you find a delicate balance with the perfect neighbor.When Gita came to me and we realized, you know, we made that in a vacuum like that was we, we made that film independently. Very little money, like tiny, tiny little family of the crew. It was just me and her, you know, like when we were kind of cutting it together and then, and then there's obviously producers to kind of help and build that platform and, and give great feedback along the way.But it allowed us to take huge creative risks in a really exciting way. And I hate that I even have to use the word risks because it sounds like, but, but I do, because I think that the industry is pushing against, you know, sometimes the spec specificity of things, uh, in fear of. Not knowing how it will be received.And I fantasize about all of us being able to just watch something and seeing how we feel about it and not kind of needing to know what it is before we see it. So, okay, here comes the perfect neighbor. GTA says to me early on, like, I think. I think it can be told through all these materials, and I was like, it will be told through like I was determined and I held us very strict to it.I mean, as we kind of developed the story and hit some challenges, it was like, this is the fun. Let's problem solve this. Let's figure out what it means. But that also came within the container of all this to kind of trust the audience stuff that I've been trying to repeat to myself as a mantra so I don't fall into the trappings that I'm watching so much work do.With this one, we knew it was gonna be this raw approach and by composing it completely of the evidence, it would ideally be this kind of undeniable way to tell the story, which I realized was only possible because of the wealth of material we had for this tracked so much time that, you know, took the journey.It did, but at the same time, honoring that that's all we needed to make it happen. So all those tools, I think it was like. A mixed bag of things that I found that were effective, things that I've been frustrated by in my process. Things that I felt radical about with, you know, that I've been like trying to scream in, into the void and nobody's listening.You know, it's like all of that because I, you know, I think I've said this many times. The perfect neighbor was not my full-time job. I was on another film that couldn't have been more different. So I think in a, in a real deep seated, subconscious way, it was in conversation with that. Me trying to go as far away from that as possible and in understanding what could be possible, um, with this film.So yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's like all the tools from the films, but it was also like where I was in my life, what had happened to me, you know, and all of those. And by that I mean in a process level, you know, working in film, uh, and that and yes, and the values and ethics that I honor and wanna stick to and protect in the.Personal lens and all of that. So I think, I think it, it, it was a culmination of many things, but in that approach that people feel that has resonated that I'm most proud of, you know, and what I brought to the film, I think that that is definitely, like, I don't think I could have cut this film the way I did at any other time before, you know, I think I needed all of those experiences to get here.BEN: Oh, there's so much there and, and there's something kind of the. The first part of what you were saying, I've had this experience, I'm curious if you've had this experience. I sort of try to prepare filmmakers to be open to this, that when you're working with something, especially Doc, I think Yeah. More so Doc, at a certain point the project is gonna start telling you what it wants to be if you, if you're open to it.Yes. Um, but it's such a. Sometimes I call it the spooky process. Like it's such a ephemeral thing to say, right? Like, ‘cause you know, the other half of editing is just very technical. Um, but this is like, there's, there's this thing that's gonna happen where it's gonna start talking to you. Do you have that experience?VIRI: Yes. Oh, yes. I've also been a part of films that, you know, they set it out to make it about one person. And once we watched all the footage, it is about somebody else. I mean, there's, you know, those things where you kind of have to meet the spooky part, you know, in, in kind of honoring that concept that you're bringing up is really that when a film is done, I can't remember cutting it.Like, I don't, I mean, I remember it and I remember if you ask me why I did something, I'll tell you. I mean, I'm very, I am super. Precious to a fault about an obsessive. So like you could pause any film I've been a part of and I'll tell you exactly why I used that shot and what, you know, I can do that. But the instinct to like just grab and go when I'm just cutting and I'm flowing.Yeah, that's from something else. I don't know what that is. I mean, I don't. People tell me that I'm very fast, which is, I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, but I think it really comes from knowing that the job is to make choices and you can always go back and try different things, but this choose your own adventure novel is like just going, and I kind of always laugh about when I look back and I'm like, whoa, have that happen.Like, you know, like I don't even. And I have my own versions of imposter syndrome where I refill mens and I'm like, oh, got away with that one. Um, or every time a new project begins, I'm like, do I have any magic left in the tank? Um, but, but trusting the process, you know, to what you're socking about is a really important way to free yourself and the film to.Discover what it is. I think nowadays because of the algorithm and the, you know, I mean, it's changing right now, so we'll see where, how it recalibrates. But for a, for a while, over these past years, the expectations have, it's like shifted where they come before the film is like, it's like you create your decks and your sizzles and you write out your movie and you, and there is no time for discovery.And when it happens. It's like undeniable that you needed to break it because it's like you keep hitting the same impasse and you can't solve it and then you're like, oh, that's because we have to step outta the map. But I fear that many works have suffered, you know, that they have like followed the map and missed an opportunity.And so, you know, and for me as an editor, it's always kinda a red flag when someone's like, and here's the written edit. I'm like, what? Now let's watch the footage. I wanna know where There's always intention when you set up, but as people always say, the edit is kind of the last. The last step of the storytelling process.‘cause so much can change there. So there is, you know, there it will reveal itself. I do get nerdy about that. I think a film knows what it is. I remember when I was shooting my first film called Born to Play, that film, we were. At the championship, you know, the team was not, thought that they were gonna win the whole thing.We're at the championship and someone leaned over to me and they said, you know, it's funny when a story knows it's being filmed. And I was like, ah. I think about that all the time because now I think about that in the edit bay. I'm like, okay, you tell me, you know, what do you wanna do? And then you kind of like, you match frame back to something and all of a sudden you've opened a portal and you're in like a whole new theme.It's very cool. You put, you know, you put down a different. A different music temp, music track, and all of a sudden you're making a new movie. I mean, it's incredible. It's like, it really is real world magic. It's so much fun. Yeah,BEN: it is. It's a blast. The, so, uh, I saw you at the panel at Doc NYC and then I went that night or the next night and watched Perfect Neighbor blew me away, and you said something on the panel that then blew me away again when I thought about it, which is.I think, correct me if I'm wrong, all of the audio is syncedVIRI: Yeah. To the footage.BEN: That, to me is the big, huge, courageous decision you made.VIRI: I feel like I haven't said that enough. I don't know if folks understand, and it's mainly for the edit of that night, like the, I mean, it's all, it's, it's all that, but it was important.That the, that the sound would be synced to the shock that you're seeing. So when you're hearing a cop, you know, a police officer say, medics, we need medics. If we're in a dashboard cam, that's when it was, you know, echoing from the dashboard. Like that's what, so anything you're hearing is synced. When you hear something coming off from the per when they're walking by and you hear someone yelling something, you know, it's like all of that.I mean, that was me getting really strict about the idea that we were presenting this footage for what it was, you know, that it was the evidence that you are watching, as you know, for lack of a better term, unbiased, objectively as possible. You know, we're presenting this for what it is. I, of course, I have to cut down these calls.I am making choices like that. That is happening. We are, we are. Composing a narrative, you know, there, uh, that stuff is happening. But to create, but to know that what you're hearing, I'm not applying a different value to the frame on, on a very practical syn sound way. You know, it's like I'm not gonna reappropriate frames.Of course, in the grand scheme of the narrative flow with the emotions, you know, the genre play of this horror type film, and there's a lot happening, but anything you were hearing, you know, came from that frame. Yeah.BEN: That's amazing. How did you organize the footage and the files initially?VIRI: Well, Gita always likes to laugh ‘cause she is, she calls herself my first ae, which is true.I had no a, you know, I had, she was, she had gotten all that material, you know, she didn't get that material to make a film. They had originally, this is a family friend who died and when this all happened, they went down and gathered this material to make a case, to make sure that Susan didn't get out. To make sure this was not forgotten.You know, to be able to utilize. Protect the family. And so there was, at first it was kind of just gathering that. And then once she got it, she realized that it spanned two years, you know, I mean, she, she popped, she was an editor for many, many years, an incredible editor. She popped it into a system, strung it all out, sunk up a lot of it to see what was there, and realized like, there's something here.And that's when she called me. So she had organized it, you know, by date, you know, and that, that originally. Strung out a lot of it. And then, so when I came in, it was just kind of like this giant collection of stuff, like folders with the nine one calls. How long was the strung out? Well, I didn't know this.Well, I mean, we have about 30 hours of content. It wasn't one string out, you know, it was like there were the call, all the calls, and then the 9 1 1 calls, the dash cams. The ring cams. Okay. Excuse me. The canvassing interviews, audio only content. So many, many. Was about 30 hours of content, which honestly, as most of us editors know, is not actually a lot I've cut.You know, it's usually, we have tons more than that. I mean, I, I've cut decades worth of material and thousands of hours, you know, but 30 hours of this type of material is very specific, you know, that's a, that's its own challenge. So, so yeah. So the first, so it was organized. It was just organized by call.Interview, you know, some naming conventions in there. Some things we had to sync up. You know, the 9 1 1 calls would overlap. You could hear it in the nine one one call center. You would hear someone, one person who called in, and then you'd hear in the background, like the conversation of another call. It's in the film.There's one moment where you can hear they're going as fast as they can, like from over, from a different. So there was so much overlap. So there was some syncing that we kind of had to do by ear, by signals, by, you know, and there's some time coding on the, on the cameras, but that would go off, which was strange.They weren't always perfect. So, but that, that challenge unto itself would help us kind of really screen the footage to a finite detail, right. To like, have, to really understand where everybody is and what they're doing when,BEN: yeah. You talked about kind of at the end, you know, different people come in, there's, you know, maybe you need to reach a certain length or so on and so forth.How do you, um, handle notes? What's your advice to young filmmakers as far as navigating that process? Great question.VIRI: I am someone who, when I was a kid, I had trouble with authority. I wasn't like a total rebel. I think I was like a really goody goody too. She was borderline. I mean, I had my moments, but growing up in, in a journey, an artistic journey that requires you to kind of fall in love with getting critiques and honing things and working in teams.And I had some growing pains for a long time with notes. I mean, my impulse was always, no. A note would come and I'd go, no, excuse me. Go to bed, wake up. And then I would find my way in and that would be great. That bed marinating time has now gone away, thank goodness. And I have realized that. Not all notes, but some notes have really changed the trajectory of a project in the most powerful waves.And it doesn't always the, to me, what I always like to tell folks is it's, the notes aren't really the issues. It's what? It's the solutions people offer. You know? It's like you can bring up what you're having an issue with. It's when people kind of are like, you know what I would do? Or you know what you think you should do, or you could do this.You're like, you don't have to listen to that stuff. I mean, you can. You can if you have the power to filter it. Some of us do, some of us don't. I've worked with people who. Take all the notes. Notes and I have to, we have to, I kind of have to help filter and then I've worked with people who can very quickly go need that, don't need that need, that, don't need that.Hear that, don't know how to deal with that yet. You know, like if, like, we can kind of go through it. So one piece of advice I would say is number one, you don't have to take all the notes and that's, that's, that's an honoring my little veary. Wants to stand by the vision, you know, and and fight for instincts.Okay. But the second thing is the old classic. It's the note behind the note. It's really trying to understand where that note's coming from. Who gave it what they're looking for? You know, like is that, is it a preference note or is it a fact? You know, like is it something that's really structurally a problem?Is it something that's really about that moment in the film? Or is it because of all the events that led to that moment that it's not doing the work you think it should? You know, the, the value is a complete piece. So what I really love about notes now is I get excited for the feedback and then I get really excited about trying to decipher.What they mean, not just taking them as like my to-do list. That's not, you know, that's not the best way to approach it. It's really to get excited about getting to actually hear feedback from an audience member. Now, don't get me wrong, an audience member is usually. A producer in the beginning, and they have, they may have their own agenda, and that's something to know too.And maybe their agenda can influence the film in an important direction for the work that they and we all wanted to do. Or it can help at least discern where their notes are coming from. And then we can find our own emotional or higher level way to get into solving that note. But, you know, there's still, I still get notes that make me mad.I still get notes where I get sad that I don't think anybody was really. Watching it or understanding it, you know, there's always a thought, you know, that happens too. And to be able to read those notes and still find that like one kernel in there, or be able to read them and say, no kernels. But, but, but by doing that, you're now creating the conviction of what you're doing, right?Like what to do and what not to do. Carrie, equal value, you know, so you can read all these notes and go, oh, okay, so I am doing this niche thing, but I believe in it and. And I'm gonna stand by it. Or like, this one person got it and these five didn't. And I know that the rules should be like majority rules, but that one person, I wanna figure out why they got it so that I can try to get these, you know, you get what I'm saying?So I, I've grown, it took a long time for me to get where I am and I still have moments where I'm bracing, you know, where I like to scroll to see how many notes there are before I even read them. You know, like dumb things that I feel like such a kid about. But we're human. You know, we're so vulnerable.Doing this work is you're so naked and you're trying and you get so excited. And I fall in love with everything. I edit so furiously and at every stage of the process, like my first cut, I'm like, this is the movie. Like I love this so much. And then, you know, by the 10th root polling experience. I'm like, this is the movie.I love it so much. You know, so it's, it's painful, but at the same time it's like highly liberating and I've gotten a lot more flowy with it, which was needed. I would, I would encourage everybody to learn how to really enjoy being malleable with it, because that's when you find the sweet spot. It's actually not like knowing everything right away, exactly what it's supposed to be.It's like being able to know what the heart of it is. And then get really excited about how collaborative what we do is. And, and then you do things you would've never imagined. You would've never imagined, um, or you couldn't have done alone, you know, which is really cool. ‘cause then you get to learn a lot more about yourself.BEN: Yeah. And I think what you said of sort of being able to separate the idea of, okay, something maybe isn't clicking there, versus whatever solution this person's offering. Nine times outta 10 is not gonna be helpful, but, but the first part is very helpful that maybe I'm missing something or maybe what I want to connect is not connecting.VIRI: And don't take it personally. Yeah. Don't ever take it personally. I, I think that's something that like, we're all here to try to make the best movie we can.BEN: Exactly.VIRI: You know? Yeah. And I'm not gonna pretend there aren't a couple sticklers out there, like there's a couple little wrenches in the engine, but, but we will, we all know who they are when we're on the project, and we will bind together to protect from that.But at the same time, yeah, it's, yeah. You get it, you get it. Yeah. But it's really, it's an important part of our process and I, it took me a while to learn that.BEN: Last question. So you talked about kind of getting to this cut and this cut and this cut. One of the most important parts of editing, I think is especially when, when you've been working on a project for a long time, is being able to try and see it with fresh eyes.And of course the, one of the ways to do that is to just leave it alone for three weeks or a month or however long and then come back to it. But sometimes we don't have that luxury. I remember Walter Merch reading in his book that sometimes he would run the film upside down just to, mm-hmm. You know, re re redo it the way his brain is watching it.Do you have any tips and tricks for seeing a cut with fresh eyes? OhVIRI: yeah. I mean, I mean, other than stepping away from it, of course we all, you know, with this film in particular, I was able to do that because I was doing other films too. But I, one good one I always love is take all the music out. Just watch the film without music.It's really a fascinating thing. I also really like quiet films, so like I tend to all of a sudden realize like, what is absolutely necessary with the music, but, but it, it really, people get reliant on it, um, to do the work. And you'd be pleasantly surprised that it can inform and reinvent a scene to kind of watch it without, and you can, it's not about taking it out forever, it's just the exercise of watching what the film is actually doing in its raw form, which is great.Switching that out. I mean, I can, you know, there's other, washing it upside down, I feel like. Yeah, I mean like there's a lot of tricks we can trick our trick, our brain. You can do, you could also, I. I think, I mean, I've had times where I've watched things out of order, I guess. Like where I kind of like go and I watch the end and then I click to the middle and then I go back to the top, you know?And I'm seeing, like, I'm trying to see if they're all connecting, like, because I'm really obsessed with how things begin and how they end. I think the middle is highly important, but it really, s**t tells you, what are we doing here? Like what are we set up and where are we ending? And then like, what is the most effective.Journey to get there. And so there is a way of also kind of trying to pinpoint the pillars of the film and just watching those moments and not kind, and then kind of reverse engineering the whole piece back out. Yeah, those are a couple of tricks, but more than anything, it's sometimes just to go watch something else.If you can't step away from the project for a couple of weeks, maybe watch something, you could, I mean, you can watch something comparable in a way. That tonally or thematically feels in conversation with it to just kind of then come back and feel like there's a conversation happening between your piece and that piece.The other thing you could do is watch something so. Far different, right? Like, even if you like, don't like, I don't know what I'm suggesting, you'd have to, it would bend on the project, but there's another world where like you're like, all right, I'm gonna go off and watch some kind of crazy thrill ride and then come back to my slow burn portrait, you know, and, and just, just to fresh the pal a little bit, you know?I was like that. It's like fueling the tanks. We should be watching a lot of stuff anyways, but. That can happen too, so you don't, you also get to click off for a second because I think we can get, sometimes it's really good to stay in it at all times, but sometimes you can lose the force for the, you can't see it anymore.You're in the weeds. You're too close to it. So how do we kind of shake it loose? Feedback sessions, by the way, are a part, is a part of that because I think that when you sit in the back of the room and you watch other people watch the film, you're forced to watch it as another person. It's like the whole thing.So, and I, I tend to watch people's body language more than, I'm not watching the film. I'm like watching for when people shift. Yeah, yeah. I'm watching when people are like coughing or, you know, or when they, yeah. Whatever. You get it. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, soBEN: that is the most helpful part for me is at a certain point I'll bring in a couple friends and I'll just say, just want you to watch this, and I'm gonna ask you a couple questions afterwards.But 95% of what I need is just sitting there. Watching them and you said exactly. Watching their body language.VIRI: Yeah. Oh man. I mean, this was shoulder, shoulder shooks. There's, and you can tell the difference, you can tell the difference between someone's in an uncomfortable chair and someone's like, it's like whenever you can sense it if you're ever in a theater and you can start to sense, like when they, when they reset the day, like whenever we can all, we all kind of as a community are like, oh, this is my moment.To like get comfortable and go get a bite of popcorn. It's like there's tells, so some of those are intentional and then some are not. Right? I mean, if this is, it goes deeper than the, will they laugh at this or will they be scared at this moment? It really is about captivating them and feeling like when you've, when you've lost it,BEN: for sure.Yeah. Very. This has been fantastic. Oh my God, how fun.VIRI: I talked about things here with you that I've haven't talked, I mean, contact so deeply, but even film school, I feel like I don't know if that's out there anywhere. So that was fun. Thank you.BEN: Love it. Love it. That, that that's, you know, that's what I hope for these interviews that we get to things that, that haven't been talked about in other places.And I always love to just go in, you know, wherever the trail leads in this case. Yeah. With, uh, with Jody Foster and Math McConaughey and, uh, I mean, go see it. Everybody met this. Yeah. Uh, and for people who are interested in your work, where can they find you?VIRI: I mean, I don't update my website enough. I just go to IMDB.Look me up on IMDB. All my work is there. I think, you know, in a list, I've worked on a lot of films that are on HBO and I've worked on a lot of films and now, you know, obviously the perfect neighbor's on Netflix right now, it's having an incredible moment where I think the world is engaging with it. In powerful ways beyond our dreams.So if you watch it now, I bet everybody can kind of have really fascinating conversations, but my work is all out, you know, the sports stuff born to play. I think it's on peacock right now. I mean, I feel like, yeah, I love the scope that I've had the privilege of working on, and I hope it keeps growing. Who knows.Maybe I'll make my space movie someday. We'll see. But in the meantime, yeah, head over and see this, the list of credits and anything that anybody watches, I love to engage about. So they're all, I feel that they're all doing veryBEN: different work. I love it. Thank you so much.VIRI: Thank you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit benbo.substack.com

 They put in their cover letter, “Honestly, we're just gonna go up to Yellowstone around that time and we would love to swing by and show the movie.”Rudi Womack is the Director of the Wyoming International Film Festival and the creator of the YouTube channel The Film Festival Guide.In this conversation, Rudi talks about:* What watching thousands of film festival submissions has taught him about good storytelling* The biggest mistake filmmakers make when they submit to festivals* Why transparency matters and why he published all of the submission and acceptance stats for the Wyoming International Film Festival * The importance of a compelling poster and thumbnail* How to write a good description of your movie* The most important questions filmmakers must askHere is a link to Hiike, the new film festival submission platform that Rudi mentioned.If you enjoyed this episode please forward to a friend.Here is an AI-generated transcript of my interview with Rudi. Don't come for me.79. Film Festival Director Rudi WomackBEN: Hi everyone. This is Ben Guest and this is The Creativity Education and Leadership Podcast. My guest today is Rudy Womack, who is the director of the Wyoming International Film Festival, and also Rudy has a fantastic YouTube page called The Film Festival Guide. So for all my filmmakers out there who are interested in submitting to festivals in this interview and on Rudy's YouTube page, he breaks it down. Enjoy.Rudi, thank you so much for joining us.RUDI: Hey, it's my pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.BEN: So I always start off with a fun question, and we're entering the holiday season, so very important holiday question. Is Die Hard a Christmas movie?RUDI: Absolutely. A hundred percent. Come on.BEN: I love it. So I, I told you this off Air, I found you through the Rate YouTube channel.You have the Film Festival Guide. Is that the right name? I wanna make sure I get the name right. Yeah. The filmRUDI: festival guide. Yep.BEN: On YouTube Film Festival Guide on YouTube. Please. Any filmmakers out there go and subscribe. The information is so helpful. What, why did you start the this YouTube page?RUDI: I, as a filmmaker have gone through the festival circuit several times and I made a lot of amateur mistakes. I didn't know what I was doing. Definitely fell on my face a couple of times, but I also had some successes. And as I did more film festivals, I started learning more about the circuit.I got invited by a film festival to become a programmer, and so I started reviewing a lot of films and seeing a lot of the submissions. And I think instantly that made me a better filmmaker just because I saw what was working, what wasn't working, and how other filmmakers really brought to, brought their stories to life on the screen.And it, it was truly inspirational. Very long story short, the Wyoming International Film Festival was started by a gentleman named Alan Oi, and he's a, he's a documentarian out of Wyoming, which is where I'm from. I'm from Wyoming. So Alan had the film festival and he had run it for some years and it was going great and everything.But then Alan retired and now he's retiring. He wants to move outta Wyoming and he doesn't wanna run a live event. ‘cause it is a lot of work in his words. And I quote, it's a young man's game. And at the same time, COVID hit and he didn't wanna do the whole online thing and it was just a big mess.So Alan was like, I'm done with the festival, it's done. I'm just gonna let it die. And I was begging him, no, Alan, you can't do it. It's so important for indie filmmakers. And at the time I'm just finding my feet in the festival circuit as well as both a filmmaker and now I'm a programmer.I'm begging him like don't let it die. It's important, maybe I can help out. And he was like, why don't you run it? And I was like, absolutely not, man. What are you talking about? That's crazy. No way. No way. And I was like, I'm going to be your director of programming. That's what I'm going to do.I'm gonna help you get films in so you don't have to do that work. Very long story short, I ended up running it. I ended up taking over the festival from Alan. I did so reluctantly. But when I started working with the festival, working with the community, working with my hometown filmmakers and my home state filmmakers, and just seeing how important a film festival can be for a local community to uplift indie filmmakers to help them along the way I fell in love with it and here I am now, I run the film festival.And your question was, how did I start the YouTube channel? Sorry, I'm getting there. But I got a lot of questions from filmmakers about festivals, like how to navigate ‘em. And there's just so much mystery behind film festivals ‘cause it's so opaque. There's not a lot of transparency from film festivals.Film festivals are sketchy about which films they do select and which they don't. And frankly, there's a lot of misinformation out there about festivals. So I started answering a lot of questions and I started repeatedly answering the same question again and again and again. And I had some friends who told me, you should write a book.But I was like, yeah, but books, there are books, like people have already written books, bluntly, frankly, people far more experienced and knowledgeable than myself have written books. And so if you're not reading those books, then you're probably not gonna read my book. So that's when I decided, you know what, the YouTube channel is a great way to just do very easy outreach.Take one single topic, break it down for 10 minutes, and hopefully help filmmakers along on their film festival journey.BEN: I love it. And you said something for all the filmmakers who are listening. I'm gonna come back to it. Don't worry. You said something about once you started programming and watching so many films, you got a good sense of what works and what doesn't.So I definitely wanna come back to that. I know the filmmakers listening want to hear that. But before that you mentioned 10 minute videos. You strike me as somebody who, does research and takes time to Yes. Before they do something. What did you discover about running a YouTube page?What things work, what things don't work?RUDI: I'm still very early on in my own YouTube development. I'm still trying to learn what does and doesn't work. So I'm probably the worst person on earth to give advice. Definitely that first 32nd hook is so important on YouTube, just like it is on a film that, that intro, how we come into the story, whatever, on YouTube, you can see a massive drop off and apparently it's that way on every channel.Again, I'm not a YouTube guru, so I don't give advice, but that first 32nd hook is a big deal, but also just my presence on camera. I come from the post world. I'm an editor, so I'm not just behind camera. I'm behind, behind the camera. So I'm very much not used to an on-camera presence, so I'm developing that and learning it as well.What kind of energy I can bring. How to make it engaging. But also I don't wanna be zany and too quirky or anything because I am trying to give good guidance to filmmakers, but I also don't want to lecture them and bore them to death. So it's finding that balance of information that's valuable, but also entertaining enough that people don't wanna click off.And it's actually quite a complex thing that I'm still unraveling one video at a time. But the best advice that I saw was some YouTube guru who is just focus on getting 1% better on every single video. So is that little bit better graphics or better delivery, or better audio, or better editing or whatever it is.And after a hundred videos, you're now a hundred percent better. So that's what I've been focusing on. Just very small baby steps.BEN: Yeah, that's such a great way to break it down, right? It just makes it bite-sized, get 1% better.RUDI: I think you can apply that to life in general. There's a lot of things in life just today be 1% better.That's it,BEN: so you mentioned once you start a programming scene, get enough feel for what works, what doesn't, especially with short films, both narrative and docs. What are you seeing that works and doesn't work?RUDI: In the shorts world I'm seeing a couple of things. One, a self-contained story, and this is something that I had a problem with because oftentimes I would go for more of a quote unquote scene instead of a full beginning, middle and in, in a story.So a self-contained story typically is gonna make your short film much more successful. This can be hard for some filmmakers because they're trying to make a proof of concept short film that they're gonna go and get financing for their future. So one of the things that they often do is they just take a scene outta their feature and then just shoot that, which has mixed results.And the problem is the films that have gotten financed and been made from shorts that have done that are the ones that you see. So it's actually a survivor bias, where it's like it, it works for those particular films and therefore everybody thinks it's gonna work for their film. But obviously the films that it doesn't work for, you're never going to see.So you don't understand, actually for the majority of films, it doesn't work. So if you have a proof of concept, I actually say, don't pull a scene outta your feature. I say write its own scene, or sorry, your own short film. That exists in the same world and universe with the same characters as what your feature film is.And I think that's gonna have much more success on the film festival circuit. And that will lean you or lead you to whatever your goal is, financing or distribution or whatever. So that's a big thing with short films that makes ‘em successful is make sure it is actually a self-contained story and it doesn't have any loose ends, so to speak.What doesn't work is something that I myself struggle with, ironically as an editor. And that's things being too long and you need to parse them down. Now a lot of people will say, shorter, the better, which is true, but I actually think that's a result of actually getting to the core of the problem.And that's make your film as concise as possible. Get the idea. The emotion, the story out as concise as you can. And what that does by happenstance is it makes your film shorter. So it's not that shorter is better. I know there's it almost sounds like I'm just splitting hairs here, but I've seen plenty of five minute films that didn't work.I've seen plenty of 10 minute films that board me to death. So shorter isn't necessarily better. It's more concise of your story is better. And sometimes that still manifests as a 20, 30, 40 minute film. But if it's a very interesting 20, 30, 40 minutes, that's not gonna matter.BEN: It's such a great point. And for me, when I get to a certain point in the edit, I like to just bring in a couple friends and have them watch it. And then I just sit there and watch them watch it and whatever feedback they're gonna provide afterwards. 95% of what I need, I can just tell from Body Language as they're watching the film.RUDI: Yep.BEN: You come fromRUDI: theBEN: Go ahead.RUDI: Oh I was just gonna piggyback off that and just say, audience feedback is worth its weight and goal.BEN: Yeah.RUDI: And every filmmaker when you hit that fine cut stage, like you said, get your friends and family together, buy everybody some burgers and fries or whatever.Get ‘em all together. Gather ‘em up in a room, watch them, watch your film. That's gonna tell you more than anything else. We'll be able to about the success of your film and where it's strong, where it's weak, where you can still fix things. And I always suggest do it in your fine cut stage because nothing's locked in and you can still move things around and adjust, or whatever it is you need.BEN: Love it. And I think earlier what you are really getting at is telling a good story. Yes. And I'm amazed at, not amazed, but maybe a little disappointed, especially in today's world, the technical side of filmmaking. Even for an amateur, even for an indie filmmaker that you can, things can be d done so well technically, but there's no story.RUDI: Yes. All the time. So when I get onto Reddit, ‘cause you mentioned Reddit earlier if I go onto our filmmakers, right? Yeah. I don't have to look far to see people just geeking out over the newest Camerons. It's, and it's always cameras. Everybody always talks about. This camera is so fancy and it has so many stops above and this lens can do this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.It has this big bit rate, whatever. Everybody gets so excited about cameras and I always say to myself, man, if they got this excited about audio, I wouldn't have to reject half the films that we have to reject because the audio is just blah. So if we're gonna talk tech, if we're gonna talk about the quote unquote quality of the filmmaking, I think what filmmakers need to understand is there are so many films out there we're that is just the foundation.It is the base level, it is the bare minimum that the film looks good. It sounds good. It feels good. So for us, festival guys, we see so many of these films. You're super gorgeous cinematography, you're really fancy, VFX, whatever it is that you think really separates your film from the pack. I don't wanna discourage you, I don't wanna sound jaded or anything, but it's not as impressive to us as you might believe it is, simply because we see hundreds and sometimes thousands of films like that.So for us it constantly falls back to originality and the story. Is the story well done? Is it well told? Is it a new and interesting story that we've never seen before? Is it a story that we've seen before but told in a very unique way, from a specific point of view, that is what is going to move us as festival people.‘cause when I put it into the theater and my audience walks in and they pay a ticket. My audience is used to going down to the theater and seeing a hundred million dollar movies. So for them, quality is just a given. It's just assumed they're not going to be thinking about it for them. They go and watch a movie ‘cause they're interested in, and I think if more filmmakers really dialed in on their story, they're going to find more success.BEN: So many great points there and a hundred percent agree with what you were saying about people get excited about the camera. And so I did my MFA at USC and there were three different times where I was on a set that, that I felt was unsafe. Not that I felt it was unsafe, what they were doing. Geez. And I walked off and it was always to get the cool shot.Like no one's ever hanging off a balcony to get room tone. You know what I mean? It's just, it's always to get the cool shot that, again, if you're not telling a good story, it doesn't matter. And to your point, I've always felt good audio is more important than good video.RUDI: Good image.BEN: Yeah.RUDI: Look at the documentary. Look at the nonfiction world. We see verite stuff all the time. We see stuff people recorded on their phone or, security camera footage or whatever, like at the end of the day in the nonfiction world is a great example of the quality of the shot doesn't necessarily matter so much as the quality of the story and how it's being told and how it's being revealed to us.And the audio is always gonna be very clean, very top notch, even if it's quote unquote found footage or. Veritate footage or whatever, the audio is always peak. I saw that Netflix doc recently, it was super heartbreaking. The perfect neighbor. And most of it is police body cam footage, but the audio is clean so we're able to follow the story so no one sits back and thinks of themselves this isn't a good shot.Of course it's not, it's police potty cam footage. Like it doesn't look good and it's not meant to,BEN: but it sounds good. And so you can follow it.RUDI: Yes.BEN: What what are some tropes that you think you've gotten tired of seeing in, especially in short films?RUDI: So every year it's a little bit different.You would be surprised what things pop up and what don't. The one trope that kind of rubs me the wrong way, I, I don't know how to describe it any other way than filmmaker self therapy. Like they, they're definitely going through something at the moment and they're not focused on creating a good story.They're more focused on using their art form to emotionally process whatever it is they're going through, which fine, you are an artist that makes sense to do, but also I can't sell my audience on that. So while I don't wanna discourage someone from making a film that is very near and dear and personal to them, at the end of the day, it might not be a good fit for film festivals.And so I, I would really think twice about whether or not that is a story that an audience, frankly, needs to see. Filmmaker cell therapy is one that when I get it, I'm always eh I don't know what to do with it. I just, I don't know what to do. Some other tropes that we see very commonly are like.Obviously right now, tech and AI and stuff like that gives a lot of people anxiety. So there's a lot of like evil robot takes over or the big reveal at the end of the movie, they were a robot the whole time, or the whole thing was a simulation or whatever. That's being very well tread right now.For me, I'm I am not a political person and anytime some big thing is in the news, we see tons of films on it. So I understand politics do affect people's day to day and their lives, so I understand that manifest. But man, I probably have a hundred immigration films right now and that's a lot. And I'm not gonna screen that many, so I'm only gonna pick like one, maybe two, so that's a tough one to do.Anything that's like a hot button political issue. We always see a big wave of those come in. And then honestly, romance dramas get tough. It isn't evergreen. We do have an audience for it. We usually do have some kind of a selection of them. Romance dramas have existed since the beginning of time.It's always been a thing. But filmmaker broke up with his girlfriend, so now he has a character who breaks up with his girlfriend. It gets it, it doesn't get very original. I, it just it gets exhausted. So those are some of the kind of general tropes I would avoid. I have heard other festival directors talk about like cancer films and Alzheimer's films and stuff like that.This year I'm not seeing so much of those, but I have seen those in the past. So tho those are some other. Tread stories we'll see.BEN: One of the things that I appreciate about. Your series of videos is your transparency, and you have one video where you literally break down. Here are all the films the number of films, Wyoming International Film Festivals received. Here's how it breaks down, here's how many we, we accepted, et cetera, et cetera.You have another one where you literally show the viewer, this is what we see as a programmer on our film freeway portal. Here's the scoring sheet. I think it's a little bit different from the one you guys use internally, but basically here's what the scoring sheet on film freeway looks like. Why is transparency so important to you?RUDI: Because I'm a filmmaker, because I've been to so many festivals where I have no idea what the hell's going on. I've been to festivals where I think my film is gonna be a good fit. I think based on what I've been able to investigate on my own, digging through their website, digging through their archive.Seen what they've programmed before. I think I'm a good fit, but I don't actually know. And I've submitted to festivals where later on, I see what they programmed or I got rejected or even accepted and then gone to the festival itself and have been a little disappointed when was like I this festival didn't fit my goals the way that I thought it would, or, this festival wasn't going to do the things for me.Or this festival, like really promoted themselves very heavily as this big event. And then you get there and then it's not, and that's a little bothersome. So when I stepped into my role at the Wyoming International Film Festival, I made a whole bunch of changes. But one of the changes that I made was, we are going to be transparent.I don't ever want a filmmaker to submit to our festival, get in, get accepted to the festival, drive all the way out to Wyoming and be disappointed. I don't want them to do that. That's not good for them. It's not good for us. It's not good for the community. It's not good for indie film at large.What's better is if we just be what we are in Wyoming, we're straight shooters. We just say it as it is. So I'm going to tell you exactly how many films were submitted, which films we accepted, what the percentage rates are, how many shorts versus features, how many docs versus narratives, how many music videos, all of this stuff.And we've been releasing the data for the past couple of years. This year, like we went all out with the data it was much more thorough than what we've done in years past. And even me, the director of the festival, I sit back, I look at the data and I can see some weak spots in it. I can see where we need to improve as a festival, where we need to start, bringing in a certain type of film or where other films might be overrepresented or how we can give more of an experience to our filmmakers.Just by boiling it down to numbers and looking at it. I can start seeing some of our weak spots and I want to improve on that ‘cause I want to have a good festival. And I think if more festivals were to do that, I think the filmmaking community at large would be much more appreciative. And I think film festivals need to understand.That if you have fewer submissions, that's not a bad thing because the submissions that you are going to get are filmmakers that really want to be in your festival and that's good for the health of your festival, the community, the filmmakers, everything. So I, I think the only way we get there is by being transparent.And thankfully there are other festivals that are publishing their data, which is great. And that makes me very happy to see. And I hope that trend continues and I hope even more festivals start publishing more of their data and showing how they review films, what their scorecards look like, what they're looking for.‘cause ultimately I genuinely believe that just serves the filmmakers better and ultimately makes everybody have a better experience on the film festival circuit, including the festivals themselves.BEN: When you took over as directorWhat were the biggest challenges?RUDI: So our biggest challenge to this day is our venue.So there's only one movie theater in Cheyenne, Wyoming. It is owned by a company outta Casper, Wyoming. They own pretty much a monopoly of movie theaters across the state, like most of them. And they don't allow anybody into their theaters at all. They don't allow her private screenings or corporate events or, in individuals who wanna screen their film or film festivals.I'm not the only film festival in Wyoming. I talk with other festival directors. They can't get in either. It's funny, the film commissioner of the state can't even get in. You would think the movie theater would at least want to partner with the state film Commission, but no. So for us, the challenge has been a venue and luckily our partners over at Laramie County Community College.Have graciously allowed us to use their facilities for the last couple years. They have a beautiful auditorium that we do some of our screenings in, but we also have screening rooms in a black box theater that they have as well as a conference room. And when I say conference room, most filmmakers like their heart drops a little bit.They're like, oh man, I'm just, I'm going into a conference room. It's not a proper movie theater. And that's fine. We publish that data on our film freeway page on hike. We are transparent about that. So when you submit, you might be in the conference room. But ironically, I think it has some of the best audio and it has some of the best projection.So even though it's the quote unquote least movie theater, like I actually think it has some of the best projection, best color. But venue is probably one of our biggest challenges and we continue to develop that. We continue to. Trying to innovate. We're trying to build our own screening room there on the campus.Like we're trying to use one of their big classrooms for it. And what we wanna do is we wanna turn it into a lounge. We wanna bring in like couches and sofas and comfy chairs where it's like much more of a chill environment in there. And that's the type of film we wanna screen in. There's some you can literally sit back, settle in and relax.So there's things that we're doing to create a better environment for our filmmakers and of course our audience, our guests at the festival.BEN: I love it. What's been the biggest reward?RUDI: The, I get to meet you. That's what the biggest reward is. I get to meet so many filmmakers. I get to hear their stories.I get to be inspired. I get to learn stuff. I was talking with a festival director a couple of days ago. Who asked me about how we do our audience award scores and how we process that and what they do. And I just like I lit up, I'm like, oh my God. It's such a better way, it's more efficient, it's easier on the staff.It's more representative of how the audience actually feels about the film, the way the scores are aggregated and counted. It's so great. I get to meet so many people in this world of film and every single day it's like a new, whole new world is opened up to me and I get to hear so many fantastic points of view.I get to see so many awesome films, like just how many great movies are out there is a cinephile. It's like the most rewarding thing in the world. I'm an addict. I'm totally addicted to it. It's so great.BEN: I love it. I remember I used to coach basketball in my first year as a head coach. I was like, yeah, everybody's gonna be pretty competitive, other coaches and so forth.And they were, and I was. But at the same time, when coaches would get together, it was just so supportive. And people are sharing, this is what I'm doing in practice. I'm looking at this offense, this defense. And I imagine it's the same with other film festival directors and programmers. Oh, yeah. Just a supportive environment comparing notes.RUDI: It is. And the more that I meet, the more I truly do understand. 99% of festival directors out there are programmers, people who work in it. They have some tie to cinema. Most of them are filmmakers. Those who aren't, have a deep passion and love for cinema and for storytelling, and.Everybody's a volunteer. Everybody has a day job. Nobody makes money on this. They do it from the love of their heart. They truly do. And the way that they serve their communities, the way that they serve their filmmakers, some of the cool ideas they come up with there's some really neat festivals out there with like very interesting hooks or events or whatever.And I think it is such an incredible ecosystem and I think I'm truly privileged to be part of it.BEN: What are some lesser known or maybe mid-tier festivals or local festivals that you love to attend?RUDI: Okay, so one of my favorite festivals I guess you said lesser known. This one is not lesser known, but Film Quest over in Provo, Utah, damn man, pe like festival people talk about building community. They're on a different level. They've built a family. Like everybody who goes to that festival is just so tight knit there. There's no other festival like Provo or sorry, film Quest in Provo. It is just, it's on another level. And how well they treat their filmmakers is fantastic.Some years ago I was invited to be a jury member at the Fair Film Festival, which is in Ferazi Kosovo. So that is in southeastern Europe. It's a landlocked country, just a little bit above Greece, a little bit north of Greece and north of Macedonia. And Fari is a small town. And I went to that festival and first off, wow.What a great festival. I strongly suggest you submit your film to fair film. It's so good. But the cool part of being in this European festival, and frankly a small European country, most of the films are international, obviously. And so there's filmmakers coming in from like Jordan and Spain and Germany and Slovakia and Slovenia and like all over the place, Greece, Turkey, you name it.And how interesting it is to have this incredible cross section of languages and cultures and peoples, but we're all united by this one singular thing. And that's our love for storytelling and our love for movies. It had to be one of the most incredible experiences of my life. And the next movie I make, taking it back to cosBEN: Fantastic.Just had a question. What was it? Oh okay. So with the huge caveat of besides making. A good film, a film that tells a story. Besides that, are there any tips or tricks, things on the margins that filmmakers can do when they're applying to festivals to be aware of? Sometimes festivals. Ask for a cover letter orRUDI: Yes.BEN: Press kit, things like that. Okay.RUDI: So with, sorry, my phone is loud. I should turn that down. So obviously with a huge caveat of make a good film or whatever, what's the easiest way to get it? All of the stuff on film Freeway, and I do have a video on this, on my YouTube page if you wanna check it out, where I give you a tour of film, freeway from the festival side of things like what the festival can see and how we see it and how we navigate it.On the festival end of things. We can see your cover letter, your screenings and awards your. Cast and crew information, your director's bio, your director's statement, your photographs, your EPK, that's your electronic press kit your trailer, all of that. All of that. As much of that as you can possibly make, you should make it.It's very important. And you never know which piece is gonna be more important to a particular film festival. For instance, here's something crazy. I was meeting with some of my programmers last night. They had a whole bunch of films that they wanted to recommend to go to the next level programming.And we require films. Tell us where in the world or where in the United States the film was made. And every single one of ‘em was California. California. California. California. California. Which fine, whatever. California has a big film industry. That's, it's a very big state, population wise. Makes sense, right?But I am sitting back thinking, okay. I don't want it just to be a bunch of California movies. We have a big country here. I would like to see something else. And something caught my attention. One of the filmmakers, their address was in Birmingham, Alabama, but the film was shot in California, so I am suspicious.I haven't dug into it myself. I'm suspicious either that filmmaker's from Alabama and they have moved to California, or that filmmaker lives in Alabama and they shot their film in California. So they're answering where it was shot correctly. But for me, I'm like, there you go. When everybody's from California.I want that unique perspective. I wanna see someone's from Alabama and what their perspective is now. I haven't watched the film yet. I don't know if it's what we're looking for. Obviously it's a good film if my programming team has recommended it, there's no doubt in my mind it's good film. Now there's other considerations we're gonna have, but.That alone was something, even my, like I myself did not know that I would be looking for. So filling out all of that data on film, freeway, all of your information that you possibly can, your cover letters your screenings, your awards, whatever it is, the more information you give us as a festival, the more we have to make our selections.And it only benefits you. It only helps you out. So filmmakers don't get lazy. Fill out all of that information. We need it. We use it. It's important. Just do it.BEN: You mentioned a meeting with your programmers last night. Take us inside that conversation. What does that look like? What do you discuss, et cetera.RUDI: So there's. There's a big programming team and it's divided up into two different groups. There's our kind of first round screeners and then there's our senior programmers and the senior programmers pretty much review the films that have gone through that first round of screening that are getting recommended to go onto the next one.So typically when I'm talking with my screeners and everything, it's a very different conversation on the bottom end of it where they're just sorting through all of the submissions versus a different conversation I have with the senior programmers who are on the top end of it. We're now trying to decide how to block films together, how we're gonna organize it, what's the schedule maybe look like, what's the overall tone and vibe of the festival going to be, okay.If we wanna have a sci-fi block, do we even have enough sci-fi films? If we don't. Where else can we find homes for ‘em? Stuff like that. So those conversations are a little bit more high end, if you will. And it tends to be less about the story of the film itself and more about how that film is going to fit into the festival.Whereas when I'm talking with the screeners, it's much more on the story end. Like what about the story did you like or you didn't like? Or what was the unique point of view? Or whatever. So depending on which group I'm talking to it, it's gonna be different. And then of course that divides out further on features and shorts and documentaries and narratives and music videos.So like obviously my conversation with the music video people are gonna be much different than my like short documentary people.BEN: Shout out to short documentary people as a documentarian primarily makes shorts I'll ask a question for us folks. In one of the videos, as I mentioned, you literally show here's what the scoring sheet looks like.Yes. And that was for narrative with, I think one of the categories was acting and so forth. So for a documentary or documentary shorts, what does that scoring sheet look like? What do those discussions entail?RUDI: Film freeway does not allow us to have more than one scoring sheet.So unfortunately, there's just this one scoring sheet that's for everything. What I tell my screening team, and we definitely double check everything, like there's multiple people who look at something. So it's not just one person's opinion. You have at least two, oftentimes three, pretty often four.So for something like documentary they skip over that. That's what they do. So if there's no acting in the film, they skip over that. They don't rate acting if there is no acting. But you'd be surprised. There are documentaries that have acting in ‘em. There are like docudramas or documentaries with recreation In the recreation is like actual scenes and performances and stuff like that.So in those cases, even though it's a nonfiction and a documentary, yeah, we'll still judge it for the acting ‘cause that's what it has. I get the question. I'm gonna hijack your question for a second, but it is applicable. I get the question, do we accept AI in our film festival, we do not have any official policy for or against ai, which scares some filmmakers.But we do rate AI on the same standards as we would anybody else. So when it comes to creativity and originality, guess what, you're getting a nothing. ‘cause AI didn't create it. AI is not original. AI just mashes together a bunch of information from other people. So that's no creativity and originality.Same thing for something like, I don't know, art design. If you have a AI character walking through a scene or whatever you're getting zero on your art design. Nobody built those sets. Nobody costumed that actor. Nobody was the makeup artist or the hair or whatever other art deck or, PD or anything on the set.So we will accept ai. We have accepted one single AI film so far because despite all of its quote unquote handicaps, and it was a music video. It still was successful in other categories that had a good enough score. We as a team sat down, said Yes, that it still is a good film. The audience is still gonna enjoy it.The filmmaker definitely had a vision with it. They wrote out a whole thing on like why they chose to use ai. ‘cause they're also an experimental filmmaker, so it made sense for them and everything. So we were like, you know what? That's legit. Let's put it in. But other AI submissions, like I got an AI children's animation the other day and I'm like they didn't animate it themselves.They didn't voice act it themselves. It's not getting good scores on any of these. So we'll see. We'll see. We'll see if it gets through or not, but already you're shooting yourself in the foot. So don't do ai.BEN: Okay. Couple little. I don't know, around the edges or micro questions. One of the things that you talked about in one of your recent videos was having a good poster and you talked about designing your poster for your film prudence.RUDI: Yeah.BEN: Talk, talk to me about,RUDI: I specifically gave my posters an example, not a great poster,BEN: But talk to me about that.For the no budget or low budget filmmaker that can't afford to hire a a designer to make a poster. Talk to me about poster design and how that impacts the presentation of the film for festivals.RUDI: So I strongly believe that a big part of filmmaking and marketing and packaging your film together, all of that is psychology.And as much as we want to sit back and say, Hey, don't judge a book by its, cover it, that literally goes against human psychology. People are not hardwired to do that. It, it is. In our DNA, it's not just a bad habit, it is literally a survival mechanism. So if you want to stand out, you do need to have everything put together.Your cover letter, your synopsis, your photographs, all of that, and of course all of your key art. That's your poster. That's any banners that you have, that's how you're going to be promoting the film. And you have to understand it's not just about making your film look pretty to get filmmakers to go, or sorry your programmers go, Ooh, and ah, it's a pretty film.We are looking at that as a mechanism for us to advertise the festival. You gotta understand if I have 150 films in the festival, I have to get an audience for those films. And the easiest way for me to do that is through your marketing materials. We don't have the capacity. To design marketing materials for 150 different films.We are relying on the filmmakers to do that so we can go out and promote the festival. So people show up to your screening, which I would presume is what you want if you're going to a film festival. So anything you're trailer, any photographs that you can provide, which some filmmakers only provide BTS photographs, BTS is fine.It's great. Give me some good key art I can also use, please. That's what newspapers, that's what the local news that's what podcasters, whatever, that's what they want to see. So that's what I can provide. And of course, your poster. Now, there are a lot of online tools to help in poster design, frankly, I don't have an excuse for making a bad poster like I did, which is one of the reasons I use it as an example is I am shaming myself being like, this could be better and it should be. But there's a lot of online resources that can help with poster design. And also for filmmakers who are a little bit strapped for cash, you would be surprised what people will do for in kind, service for service.So if you have a friend or if there's someone that you can find that's Hey, they'll design your poster if you can design whatever their website or whatever it is that your skills might be there, there's a lot of exchange that you can do on that part. So yeah your marketing, your packaging, all of that together is actually quite important.BEN: Such a great point. And I've written and published a memoir and through that, I've worked with other authors on, on. Both writing and marketing their books, editing and marketing their books. And I tell people the exact same thing. People judge a book by its cover all the time. And in this day and age, they judge it for listeners, I'm holding my thumb and forefinger part as a thumbnail on a computer screen.Yeah, that's the size. So even for a programmer or a festival director watching it on film freeway through their platform, they're not gonna see the poster like we see it in the movie theater. They're gonna see it as a thumbnail image. Yeah. So it has to work as a thumbnail image. And if you can't read the title as a thumbnail or can't make out what's on the image, what's on the poster as a thumbnail, then you've failed that part of the process.RUDI: One, one of the things that like really clued me into how important a poster is, I went to a film festival, I believe it was Kansas City Film Festival. Some years ago, and they had a bunch of posters of films out, but there was one that was like bright pink. It was like super bright pink and had like very eye popping design and everything on it.And it was like in a whole field of like dark drama posters that are all like gritty and everything. And I'm like that stands out. That really drew my eye to it. And I think that was like my big light bulb moment of like how important this stuff actually is. And one of the things that I've been saying for some years, I've said it on the channel, I think, I don't know, some, sometimes I record things and edit out.So I don't know what I've said on the channel sometimes but one of the things that I say is making a film is half of film making. The other half is marketing, the other half is getting butts in the seats. The other half is getting eyeballs on your movie. The other half is selling your film to an audience or a film festival or a distributor or a programmer or whatever you're trying to do with it.It's getting it out there. So making a film is half a filmmaking. The other half marketing, that's what it is.BEN: I'm just nodding along with everything you're saying and I've always felt both with films and with books, with art in general, you're trying to make an emotional connection from what's in your head and your heart to the audience.And if you don't do your job, getting your film out there and helping an audience come and see your film. Then you're not helping that connection. You're missing sort of the point of making this, unless it's just for yourself. It's for, it's to connect with other people and for other people to connect with your work.And that is marketing.RUDI: It's valid. If you're just making a film for yourself, that's absolutely valid. It's in art form. You can make a film for yourself, but if you're sending it to me at a film festival, you're not you're literally trying to find an audience. So these are the things you need to consider.BEN: I love it. I got two more just in the weeds detail questions.RUDI: Alright, let's do it.BEN: Let's talk description. And what I've seen ‘cause I'm in the middle of applying to festivals. And by the way just for. Listeners, this might interest you. So I discovered Rudi's YouTube page and I was like, this is so helpful.And then I went to the Wyoming International Film Festival page and all the transparency and statistics that, that Rudi puts out, that the festival puts out. And I realized, okay, so the short documentary I have is not a good fit for this festival. Exactly what Rudi's saying. So just for anybody listening, thank you for doing research.RUDI: Thank you. That's good. That's not a bad thing, right? That means it saves you time, it saves you money, it saves you heartbreak. It's so good. Do research before you submit. I'm sorry, but I, it's in, in almost every single one of my videos, I tell filmmakers, do your research before you submit. Find the festivals that gel with your film.And if it, if they don't screen the type of movie that you have, don't submit to ‘em. You're wasting your time, you're wasting your money. And the festival, like the programmer behind the screen, might love your film. They truly might love your film, but they're programming for a very specific audience and they know what that audience's taste is.So that's why they're driving specific films to that audience. So even if they love it, they might not include it, which is why you should always do your homework and do your research before you submit. I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's so importantBEN: And yes. And the flip side of that coin is now I also know what the Wyoming International Film Festival looks for.So in the future, if I have a doc or a film, I'm like, oh, this would be a great fit for this festival.RUDI: Yes.BEN: It helps both ways.RUDI: It does. And it helps you dial in. Which festivals you should target, which festivals are gonna help you with your specific goals. Whatever your goals are with the film it's gonna help you with your budgeting and your travel plans and your own personal calendar.It's gonna help with your mental health. It just, it helps on so many different aspects. And on the film festival side of things, I appreciate it when I hear from filmmakers say, Hey man, I looked into your festival looks good, but you don't have the kind of film that I have. And I'm like, not a problem man.Maybe I can point you in the right direction. Maybe I know some film festival programmers, I can make a recommendation, on your behalf too, that's not a bad thing. We love movies and we want to see them successful, but not every single fest or film and story is going to be successful in every single market.So it's very important to find your audience. And believe me, we are going to be cheering you the whole way.BEN: I want get back to my kind of in the weeds questions, but you've mentioned something that is big picture, that's so important. I feel like I've buried the lead here. And you mentioned this you've mentioned this multiple times in your videos.Is that a Phil, it's key. Maybe the most important part of this process is of the film festival submission process is a filmmaker needs to understand what are their goals in applying to a festival. Yes. So can you just talk a little bit about that?RUDI: So film festivals are a tool. And they can be a tool for many different things, but they are a tool.And just every single tool is not right for every single job, every film festival is not gonna be right for every film and vice versa. So before you go out to film festivals, you just need to ask yourself why? Why am I going out to film festivals? Why am I spending the money, the time, the energy, the effort?What do I want out of film festivals? And that's where you need to identify your goal. And the more specific you can be with the goal, the better it's going to be you going on your film festival journey. So for many filmmakers, a common reason they go out to film festivals is networking. So I'm gonna use that as an example.So let's say your goal is I want to network, I want to meet other. Filmmakers, I wanna meet, directors of photography and producers and other people that I can hire for my projects, or they're gonna hire me for their projects, and I want to build that network and I want to meet more filmmakers.Fantastic. Great. That's your goal. So the first thing that you need to do is you need to be looking at festivals that have networking events. And in this particular instance, you need to ask yourself two things. One, does it have networking? Is there in-person networking parties or networking events?And two, do the types of people that I want to meet actually attend those networking events. So us at the Wyoming International Film Festival, we have a pretty broad spectrum. We have filmmakers that are just beginning their journey. They're totally new, wet behind the ears. They're green they're just starting their journey.That's great. All the way up to every year we have multi Emmy award-winning filmmakers. Like people who do this professionally they're in unions or professional organizations, or they're a member of the academy, motion picture Arts and sciences or the TV Academy or sometimes like the Grammys and stuff like that.I, myself, I'm a professional editor, so there's people like me who professionally work, but they're like below the line. They're cinematographers editors, gaffers, what have you. So if your goal is to meet some like high-end producer that's gonna throw, a million dollars at your movie our festival is not the festival that's gonna help you with your goal.So you should skip over us because we don't have that kind of person in attendance. But if your goal is to meet other filmmakers at your level that you can collaborate with or get hired by or whatever. We're a great festival. We have tons of networking, and we bring in a ton of those filmmakers.We're a great event for you. So when you identify what your goal is and you're very specific about it, it's easier to identify which festivals you should start targeting. I take that one step further, and then once you've narrowed down which festivals are gonna help you with your goal, then you look into their history and see which of them have screened movies like yours in the past.So if you have a, you know I use the example, if you have a seven minute comedy coming of the age film, now you know which festivals have good networking, which festivals have the kinds of people you want to network with. Now you look at which ones have screened short coming of age comedy films in the past, and have a history of doing that.So that's gonna help you filter it even further. And by doing that, you're gonna really start to develop your film festival strategy. Now I do have some exciting news. There is something coming now, it's called Hike, H-I-I-K-E. It's hike with two I. And what Hy is doing, it's a submission platform similar to film Freeway, but among many of the tools that they're giving filmmakers, they're giving filmmakers customized festival strategies and they're scraping all of that data from film festivals, what they've programmed in the past.And when you as a filmmaker, join Hike, you take a little quiz, you tell them what your goals are, what your film is, you know how long it is, what the genre is, tell them about yourself. And they literally have. Data scientist who's built this like machine learning algorithm that pairs the data from the film festival to what the filmmaker provides.That literally gives you a compatibility score. So it's, it comes out and tells you, if you want to network with, professional filmmakers but not mega producers and you have a short comedy coming of age film Wyoming International Film Festival has that crowd screens those types of films and you would have a 90% compatibility.So it actually helps you develop your festival strategy for you.BEN: It's so needed. And Rudi has a great video on how to spot scam film festivals. Yes. That's something that is just prevalent these days. So for filmmakers who are getting ready to submit, I encourage you to watch that video. I'll link to it in the show.I'll link to everything that we're discussing in the show notes. The. So Rudi talked about one goal a filmmaker can have is to network other goals at various points in my, film festival my limited film festival career I've applied to festivals ‘cause I wanted to go to that city, new Orleans Fest, new Orleans Film Festival.TravelingRUDI: is totally legitimate reason to go.BEN: People apply because they want distribute, they wanna meet distributors or financiers for the next film. Although, that's what everybody wants. SoRUDI: you, you would be surprised. So in, in 2018, I had a feature film and my, my goal like most feature films was to land a distribution deal.But I was like, that's not specific enough. There are many steps to land a distribution deal. So what I need is I need good press on my film. So that was a goal. So I wanted to target festivals that had press. I wanted laurels. I wanted to win some awards with it, but I also knew my film was. Small and kind of small scale.So it wasn't gonna win laurels at big festivals. So I was like, okay, I need festivals with press. I need festivals that are legitimate and above board, but also small enough where I'm gonna be competitive. And then I wanted to actually meet distributors. And I know they only go to big festivals, so I actually had to target three different kinds of festivals.‘cause I had three, let's call ‘em conflicting goals with my own film. So that's what I did. I did a split strategy. I targeted festivals where I was gonna be this tiny little fish in a very big pond. And no one's really gonna notice me, but I'm just happy to be there. I targeted festivals where I know that I was going to get very good press and very good reviews on the film.And I targeted festivals that were small, still legitimate, but I was gonna be competitive and maybe bring home some trophies. And so that was my strategy and it worked, and I landed a distribution deal.BEN: That's so great. I, I'd love to do a part two at some point we can talk distribution deals and all of the, yeah.Things like that. But I think for people listening, the big takeaway is even with this multi-pronged goal, three different goals connected to each other. Once you identify what your goals are, then you work backwards and you create your strategy to Yes, to achieve those. Okay. Back to the two in the weeds.Two more in the weeds questions. Yeah. So description, and as I'm looking at other film descriptions, and I saw this at USC all the time as well, and we talked about earlier, filmmakers wanting to sit in emotion or sit in something traumatic and have the audience experience that I notice a lot of times in descriptions of short films.Can so and so come to terms with this? Can, and just as someone who has a little bit of experience marketing stories, where's the action? What's the active what's this person actively trying to accomplish, rather than can they just come to terms with something? Can you talk a little bit about film description, just three or four lines.What pops?RUDI: So just like your poster, just like your marketing and everything, a film description is your way to reach through the screen, grab the audience, grab the programmer, and pull them into your movie. Keep in mind, your whole entire goal is to get people to watch your film, get them excited about your film.And so if you just have a very drab, like description that's just yeah, has to face consequences for a decision they made or come to terms with something when I, that's a good V one, that's a good place to start, but that's not going to get an audience excited about your film.I saw film, I don't know if it was at my festival. It wasn't at my festival. We didn't screen it, but I'm saying, I don't know if it was submitted to my festival or if I saw it at another festival, but I remember one of the descriptions it was great. It was whatever the two character names were, John and Jane, I forget what the characters are, but like John and Jane are on a date, there's a bomb in the other room.I I hope the date goes well, or something like that. Let's hope the date goes well. And I'm like, what is this movie? That gets you really excited for it. You're. It, it creates so much mystery. And also just the cavalier way that it was written immediately tells me this is gonna be a comedy, or it's not taking itself too seriously.It's not some like gritty, dive into the underworld or whatever. Like just how blunt it was about the dis of the film and just that like small little description. I know I'm paraphrasing what it was, but it stuck with me for years at this point. ‘cause I'm like, that is how you write a description for a film.That is how you get someone excited to see what is this movie about? Let's jump in. Piggybacking off a description. Titles are another great way to do that. In, in my own repertoire of films I've had film called Prudence. Okay, fine, whatever. Prudence doesn't really tell you much about that film.I had a film that I'm very proud of. It's artsy, it's a little bit magical realism and it's called in this gray place, and it has that artsy mystique around it in this gray place. And I love that title. I did it, I did a film back in film school. It's terrible, but the title's great.It's called Back to Fort Russell. It was a Western and I, to this day, it's one of my favorite titles that I've ever had. But it tells you something. It clues you into what this film is going to be, what the journey of this movie is going to be. And some films do that better than others. And some films, yeah, it's not necessary.But I, I get more excited when I hear something like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre than I do something that's just like love. Or mom or something.BEN: I think this is the last question. So again, with all these little details, cover letter, talk to me about cover letters.RUDI: It's so interesting you asked me that question ‘cause hearing about four or five days, I'm posting a video on the YouTube channel about cover letters. It's short, it's only four or five minutes long, but cover letters are so important.Should absolutely write a cover letter. And a couple of days ago I was talking with programmers at dances with films, and if you don't know dances with films, look ‘em up. They are an incredible film festival. They are in the big leagues for sure. And I was talking with a couple of programmers and I asked them about covert letters and they said, it's so important it.How the filmmaker is going to put an audience in the theater is very important for their festival. How they're going to get people to attend is very important for them and they're like, a good indication in a cover letter is when they, the filmmaker indicates how they're going to market their film and they use the example of football.Let's say it's a movie about football. They're like, if it's a movie about football and you tell me in the cover letter that you're part of several like football organizations, or you're gonna be reaching out to sports organizations or youth organizations for sports or something like that, to attend the film.That's a very good indication for them in the cover letter. For me, I think a cover letter is very important in that it shows. You're going the extra mile to show the festival you care. You're not just submit and quit. We're not just one festival on a list of 50 that you're submitting to. There is a reason you want to screen with us, and that's a specific reason.Either you feel that your film is good fit for our audience, or there's something that you want to connect with. In Wyoming, I had one cover letter and we did accept this film and it was really funny. They put in their cover letter like their film was a comedy, so their cover letter was also very comedic, but they're like, honestly, we're just gonna go up to Yellowstone around that time and we would love to swing by and show the movie.And I laughed. I laughed so hard at that and I'm like. But that shows me they care. Like they want to be there. And the film was good and it was funny and we screamed it and they were there. So it's a way to show a film festival enthusiasm and it's way to inform the festival about yourself, about your film, and how that's gonna gel with their particular event and their audience.BEN: I love it. And that reminds me, I got one more, I got a bonus question. Yeah. Can you talk about applying early?RUDI: Yes. Statistically, when I look at our own data, statistically, it does seem to be that the earlier you apply, the better chance that you have. And so I don't want to give the impression that if you applied late.You have no chance. I think in the video where I literally broke down the data and the statistics, I think at our festival we had a one in five chance of getting in on the late deadline, which is about a 20% acceptance rate. But it was much higher the earlier it came in. So just with the raw data taking out my opinions, my emotions on it, whatever, just the data itself shows earlier is better.Now, here's where my opinions and my feelings towards it come from. I think it's a couple of things. One, when you get in early, you set the pace for the rest of the festival, you're telling us, okay, it's a drama. We're gonna compare your film against others. Like you have now become the benchmark that we're gonna compare other films to when it comes to like dramas or whatever.What it also does. It's something I'm going to discuss in my video and cover letters, but it also engages something, what's called mere exposure effect in psychology, which is essentially the more that you are exposed to something, the more preference you have towards it. Which means if you get in early, you are exposing yourself, your film, and your story to the programmers more often and more readily than late submissions are.So it's more likely that the programmers form some attachment to your film, and that's just human nature, that's just psychology. There's some practical reasons for it as well. Obviously, earlier submissions, earlier deadlines are cheaper, so it's better to get in. It's just gonna cost you less money to do and then lastly, there are many festivals that are developing their program as they go. So as films are coming in, they're shaping. We got a ton of dramas. Maybe we need two drama blocks, or, we, we don't have enough sci-fi for a sci-fi blocks, we gotta spread it out or whatever. So if you come in late, you're now trying to elbow some other film out of the way in order to find your screening slot.Which don't get me wrong, there are plenty of programmers that are absolutely gonna go to bat for you. They're gonna fight hard to get you in. Doesn't matter if you come in early or late or whatever, but the chances are just better. And the data shows that if you get in early. All that said, a couple of years ago, the very last film that came in with only two hours left in our deadline, we ended up programming it.So it, it is possible.BEN: Rudi, I cannot thank you enough. I can't tell you how helpful this has been. There's so much great information for filmmakers. Filmmakers submitted to festivals, people just interested in going to festivals. So thank you so much for taking the time.RUDI: Hey it's always a pleasure.I always love talking film festivals and for any filmmakers out there, head on over to YouTube hit up the Film Festival Guide. That's my YouTube page. I'm coming out with videos every two or three weeks. That's about what I put ‘em out there for. So if you need any guidance or any, I don't know, insight for film festivals that's where I am.BEN: Film Festival Guide. I'm a subscriber. I can't recommend it enough. Any other social media where people can find you?RUDI: Oh no, I'm terrible on social media. YouTube's enough for me right now.BEN: So Film Fest.RUDI: I will probably expand in the future and I'll probably make some announcement on the YouTube channel.Got it. But for right now, I'm just trying to get good information out there to as many filmmakers as possible.BEN: Thank you so much for doing that. It's such a huge benefit for film.RUDI: Thank you very much for the support and thank you very much for having me on. I enjoyed this. This was a lot of fun.BEN: Me too. This was great. Thank you. And that was my interview with Rudy Womack, director of the Wyoming International Film Festival and creator of the great YouTube page, the Film Festival Guide. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please forward it to one person. Thank you and have a great day. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit benbo.substack.com

Women, children, the elderly...doesn't matter. If you listen to Retro Encounter, you're going to have a good time.On this week's episode of Retro Encounter, we dive into the wild and wacky world of Yoko Taro, best known for his work on the NieR and Drakengard franchises. We discuss game design, themes, and just how many Taro games one person can play in a month without going insane. Can we make sense of Taro's madness? Listen in to find out!Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Aleks Franiczek, Ben Love, Pat Gann; Edited by Zach WilkersonOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

If you wish to live, choose only Retro Encounter!On this week's episode of Retro Encounter, we finally finish Drakengard. We cry, we wail. Oh wait, that's the characters. Just how messed up are the additional endings? Can anyone ever truly be happy? Do rhythm games belong in an RPG? Listen in to find out!Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Aleks Franiczek, Ben Love, Steph Sybydlo; Edited by Paul DennisOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

Wise men choose Retro Encounter before war.In this week's episode of Retro Encounter, we are in pain. Wait, I mean we're playing Yoko Taro's first directorial effort: Drakengard. We discuss the first ending, the (purposely?) frustrating gameplay, all while trying to avoid going insane. Can a game that's not fun be good? Listen in to find out!Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Aleks Franiczek, Ben Love, Steph Sybybldo; Edited by Paul DennisOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

On this week's Random Encounter, we're discussing a mobile-based gacha spinoff of a beloved JRPG and a Wii U classic that has finally made its way to a modern console!Persona 5 has more than its share of spinoffs, including Persona 5 Royal, Persona 5 Strikers, Persona 5: Dancing in Starlight, and Persona 5 Tactica, and now there is a new game to add to the list: Persona 5: The Phantom X. This mobile and PC game is a full-fledged JRPG, but one with dozens of gacha mechanics in the way of a smooth gameplay experience. Was Audra able to get over these revenue traps to enjoy the solid game beneath?And then Ben is here to talk about the first 100 in RPGFan history: Xenoblade Chronicles X! This classic JRPG was released on the Wii U, where no one really played it (but to be fair, no one really played the Wii U either). But now it's available on the Nintendo Switch, so no one has an excuse not to play this spectacular early entry in the long-running, beloved Xenoblade series! Featuring: Jono Logan, Audra Bowling, and Ben Love; Edited by Jono LoganGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: podcast@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomThis Episode's Related Links:Persona 5: The Phantom X ReviewPersona 5 ReviewPersona 5 Royal ReviewPersona 5 Strikers ReviewXenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition ReviewXenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition Review

This week we look at how to inprove diversity within the ski industry and ways that under-representation is being addressed. Iain was joined by Amirra Blackwood and Dan Keeley from Snow Camp, Zahia Shaw from Skimigos and Burhan Ali from the Muslim Ski Club. SHOW NOTES Dan was last on the show in Episode 98 (1:20) Find out about Dan's epic run to Rome (2:20) Amirra and Dan were at the AJ Bell Three Valley Challenge in Val Thorens (4:00) Dave Ryding has announced that he will retire at the end of the 25/26 winter (6:15) Listen to Iain's interview with Dave in Episode 199 (8:00) Find out how Iain's '25 in 25 Snow Camp Challenge went (8:30) You can donate at Iain's JustGiving page (9:00) Around 1000 inner city young people join Snow Camp each July (10:45) Amirra's journey with Snow Camp started in 2001 (12:00) Snow Camp are taking on 16 apprentices this year Amirra's first placement was with Ellis Brigham She has just finished working at the Ski Club of Great Britain? (14:45) Skimigos took 100 people to Les 2 Alpes in March (18:00) Zahia (Zee) Shaw set up Skimigos in 2019 (19:45) Zee uses the Skimigos Instagram to tackle objections people come up with (22:00) Addressing “it's not for people like us” (22:45) Skimigos apres ski is off the charts… (25:00) Burhan is the founder of the Muslim Ski Club (27:30)  This year the club travelled to Erciyes in Turkey (30:00) “Apres-tea over apres-ski” (30:25) The club is organising ‘Eid in the Alps' in Avoriaz in 2026 (32:30) Snow Camp has been organising indoor taster sessions for young Muslims (34:00) Feedback I always enjoy listener feedback. Couple since our last episode. Ben: "Love the podcast" Pete: “248 was a great episode...loving the grass roots vibe" You can contact me with your feedback via our social channels @theskipodcast or by email theskipodcast@gmail.com  There's so much to catch up with in our back catalog just to theskipodcast.com and have a look around the tags and categories.  You can follow me @skipedia and the podcast @theskipodcast. You can also follow us on WhatsApp for exclusive material released ahead of the podcast.

Today the show is being hosted by Dan Hasty, who is the voice of the West Michigan Whitecaps, the Grand Rapids Rise, and Detroit Mercy Basketball. It's the home opener for both the Detroit Tigers and Whitecaps today, so Dan and his Broadcast partner Nate Wangler talked Baseball throughout most of the show today. In our first hour, Dan and Nate talked about the Whitecaps as they prepare for the start of their season tonight, talked about players on the team that we could see move up to the Tigers this season or next, and so much more. Dan was also joined by Keith Langlois from DetroitPistons.com to get a quick update on Cade Cunningham and to talk about tonight's game against the Raptors. In our second hour, we were joined by Ben Love who is the Director of Marketing for the West Michigan Whitecaps. He and Dan talked about the changes that have come to LMCU Ballpark, talked about this year's roster, told us about the new food they have to offer at LMCU, and much more. We were then joined by Emily Waldon who writes about Detroit Tigers prospects for Baseball America. She and Dan talked about all of the great talent on this Whitecaps team, talked about players they think will move up to the Tigers, and much more. We wrapped up the hour talking with Cathy George who is the Head Coach of the Grand Rapids Rise. She and Dan talked about this weekend's match up with the Vegas Thrill, and more. In our final hour, Dan was joined by Nate Wangler so they could talk about the Tigers win over the White Sox earlier today, talked about the prospects on the Whitecaps they see going to the Tigers, and more. We were then joined by West Michigan WhiteCap Max Clark. He talked about his journey to playing for the Whitecaps, talked about getting prepared for the season, and much more. Nate Wangler wrapped up the show talking with West Michigan Whitecap Kevin McGonigle. They talked about how last season ended, talked about developing during the off-season, and much more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We were joined by Ben Love who is the Director of Marketing for the West Michigan Whitecaps. He and Dan talked about the changes that have come to LMCU Ballpark, talked about this year's roster, told us about the new food they have to offer at LMCU, and much more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In our second hour, we were joined by Ben Love who is the Director of Marketing for the West Michigan Whitecaps. He and Dan talked about the changes that have come to LMCU Ballpark, talked about this year's roster, told us about the new food they have to offer at LMCU, and much more. We were then joined by Emily Waldon who writes about Detroit Tigers prospects for Baseball America. She and Dan talked about all of the great talent on this Whitecaps team, talked about players they think will move up to the Tigers, and much more. We wrapped up the hour talking with Cathy George who is the Head Coach of the Grand Rapids Rise. She and Dan talked about this weekend's match up with the Vegas Thrill, and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we are joined by Justin True. Justin's story is truly remarkable. From growing up in a home with intense physical and emotional abuse, to becoming a professional MMA fighter, to pulling a 1.5 vehicle for a full-marathon, to completing a 24hr Hero Crossfit WODathon, to being kidnapped in Egypt and deported for being accused of spying for the government, getting attacked by a shark, and most recently completing the "True Triathlon" a country wide endurance feat, including a 50-mile swim, 3,000-mile bike ride, and a 600-mile run. Given that Justin does everything to the extreme, following suit, this interview is also a marathon, but we promise you the time will fly by.  Warning: This episode discusses suicide. If this topic is triggering, we encourage you to skip this interview. Help is available, call or text 988 for support. We wrap the show with the reality TV shows we want to see come to fruition, the triple crown of things that give us unreasonable anxiety, and our brutally honest opinion about New York's Northville Placid Trail. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Purple Rain Skirts: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off at purplerainskirts.com. Ombraz: Use code “BACKPACKER30” for $30 off at ombraz.com/discount/backpacker30. [divider] Interview with Justin True Justin's Website Justin's Instagram Justin's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:04:52 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! And sign up for the Trek's newsletter! 00:09:30 - Introducing Justin 00:10:17 - Why are you flying out to Florida? 00:14:15 - How long did the marathon take you when you were pulling a truck? 00:18:10 - Where do you get these crazy ideas? 00:23:50 - Tell us about your challenging upbringing 00:28:00 - Where do you think their anger came from? 00:31:30 - Was your mom aware of what was happening? 00:32:30 - When did you pick up fighting? 00:35:00 - Discussion about Justin's parents 00:42:20 - Did your brother's behavior change towards you after that? 00:43:25 - Have you thought about choosing a different path than your family? 00:46:30 - Did you work as an engineer? 00:47:40 - Tell us about fighting full time 00:53:25 - Were you ever afraid while fighting? 00:54:37 - At what point did you shift into more endurance related sports? 00:57:13 - How much cardio did you do while fighting? 01:00:00 - Do you have Type 1 fun while you're struggling? 01:02:20 - Do you ever miss adrenaline while on long runs? 01:05:30 - Tell us the background of Cycle4Gaza 01:08:00 - Tell us about getting kidnapped in Africa 01:27:30 - Were you afraid at any point during this ordeal? 01:29:25 - Did you see anything you shouldn't have seen? 01:30:35 - Tell us about setting the single person record for the Three National Peaks 01:37:00 - How were you working all this financially? 01:39:40 - Tell us about doing the Olympic Triathlon with a 90 pound hammer 01:42:45 - When did the kilt come into play? 01:50:58 - Did you fight a shark? 01:58:20 - What's the heaviest you've deadlifted? 02:02:05 - Tell us about your 500-mile walk across Madagascar 02:16:34 - What were the highlights of Madagascar? 02:21:50 - Tell us about the 24hr Hero Crossfit WODathon 02:28:04 - Where did the idea for the True Triathlon come from? 02:31:00 - Discussion about the swim portion 02:34:30 - How big was your team? 02:39:00 - How are you so hard on yourself but see other people differently? 02:43:10 - Where does the poop go? 02:44:30 - Where do you start biking? 02:50:20 - Why did the swim coach stay until Houston? 02:53:00 - What does your mom think about all your adventures? 02:53:40 - What standout stories do you have from the biking portion? 02:59:40 - Justin's plans for next year 03:01:25 - Discussion about falling asleep while swimming 03:05:30 - Discussion about the triathlon 03:22:00 - What's the takeaway of being inspired by other people? 03:23:30 - What'd you feel when you finally finished? 03:27:00 - Tell us about Naked & Afraid 03:30:30 - Were you shy about being naked on tv? 03:33:00 - What were your takeaways from the show? 03:36:25 - What was the duration and the prize? 03:41:00 - Have you considered any more traditional endurance events like FKTs or the Barkley? 03:42:35 - Tell us about the runs you do while drinking beer 03:45:15 - Do you have any plans on slowing down? 03:48:00 - Where should people go to keep up with you? Segments QOTD: What's a reality TV show you want to see brought into existence? Triple Crown of things that give you unreasonable anxiety Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Sign up for the Trek's newsletter Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

I wanna be an RPG fan when I grow up.This week on Retro Encounter we gather to discuss the RPGs that defined our taste. Not necessarily our favorites, but games that helped us understand what we value in an RPG or in games in general. Does Final Fantasy show up? Who likes the most obscure Metroidvanias? Who surprises the host with their love for racing games? Listen in to find out!Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Lucas Greene, Ben Love, Paul Skevington; Edited by Zach WilkersonOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomBluesky: @rpgfan.bsky.socialInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, brought to you by Topo Athletic, we're joined by former guest, Trek writer, and certified gear nerd Alex “GPS” Brown. The focus of this one is how to save money on your backpacking kit. We break this one down category by category, sharing the best ways to cut costs, pinpointing which items aren't worth pinching pennies on, offering specific product shoutouts, and discussing overall strategies to ensure more of your hiking budget goes toward your hike. Whether you're on a shoestring budget or just looking to save a few bucks, this episode is for you.  We wrap the show with news on a partial reversal of NPS layoffs, a debate on whether we'd prefer to be chased by a bizarrely fast turtle or lug around a backpack full of jelly, and the triple crown of foods we wish we had discovered sooner. Topo Athletic: Use code “TREKWINTER15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Ombraz: Use code “BACKPACKER30” for $30 off at ombraz.com/discount/backpacker30. Purple Rain Skirts: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off at purplerainskirts.com. Bear Mattress: Use code “BACKPACKER” for 40% off at bearmattress.com. [divider] Interview with Alex “GPS” Brown Alex's Trek Bio Budget Gear (Low) Lighterpack Budget Gear (Mid) Lighterpack 2024 AT Hiker Survey Time stamps & Questions 00:05:15 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! And sign up for the Trek's newsletter! 00:13:30 - Introducing Alex 00:14:07 - Tell us about the Haute Route Pyrenees 00:19:00 - Disclaimers for this episode 00:31:50 - Budget backpacks 00:36:40 - Budget tents 00:44:00 - Budget sleeping bags 00:50:40 - Budget groundcloths 00:54:00 - Budget sleeping pads 01:02:20 - Budget footwear 01:20:16 - Budget socks 01:26:30 - Budget rain gear 01:38:00 - Budget clothing 01:50:05 - Budget cookware 01:55:10 - Honorable budget mentions 02:01:45 - Peak Performance Question: What is your top performance-enhancing or backpacking hack? Segments Alex's Poop Story Trek Propaganda: Trump Administration Partially Reverses National Park Layoff Decision by Katie Jackson QOTD:  Would you rather hike 100 miles while being chased by a slightly-too-fast tortoise or while wearing a backpack full of jelly? Triple Crown of foods you wish you knew existed sooner Mail Bag 5 Star Review (suggest a guest!) [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Sign up for the Trek's newsletter Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by Austen McDaniel, known on trail as PI. If that name sounds familiar, it's because we've been reading it off at the end of every episode for years, as Austen is one of our Chuck Norris Award-winning Patreon supporters.  But in addition to being a longtime patron, Austen is also one hell of a backpacker, having completed the Triple Crown in three consecutive years. He approached his first thru-hike as prepared as anyone we've ever talked to, hitting the Appalachian Trail with a six-pound base weight after years of fine-tuning his setup on various shakedown hikes. He walks us through how he's managed to shave additional ounces and grams off his pack, shares some fun ultralight hacks, and offers tips for making cold soaking suck less. Of course, we also dive deep into his three thru-hikes.  Beyond hiking, Austen gives us a glimpse into his life as a professional tennis instructor, if he's seducing moms at the country club, and how he managed to squeeze in some disc golf in various trail towns during his CDT trek.  We wrap the show with news of an massive new FKT on New Zealand's Te Araroa, a breakdown of just how much Irish heritage runs through our DNA, including some truly deranged family tree math from Chaunce, the triple crown of food combinations, and possibly the greatest limerick in the history of the written language. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Purple Rain Skirts: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off at purplerainskirts.com. Ombraz: Use code “BACKPACKER30” for $30 off at ombraz.com/discount/backpacker30. AG1: Get your free $79 gift at drinkag1.com/backpacker. [divider] Interview with Austen McDaniel Austen's Instagram Austen's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:06:27 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! 00:11:32 - Introducing Austen 00:13:40 - At what age could you serve over 100 miles per hour? 00:17:43 - Who's the GOAT in tennis? 00:18:20 - Tell us about disc golf 00:20:20 - What were the best courses you played on the CDT? 00:21:54 - How much is aiming versus distance? 00:23:01 - What is the distance like on a par 5 course? 00:26:01 - How did you get into hiking? 00:27:40 - Did you see any wild hogs while waterfall hunting? 00:33:30 - Discussion about preparing for thru-hiking 00:35:00 - What were your Big 3 for the AT in 2022? 00:37:05 - Did you test any items that you didn't end up liking? 00:39:17 - Why do you prefer sleeping bags over quilts? 00:41:25 - Did you find any interesting ways to combine functionality of items? 00:45:55 - Do you have any other gear hacks? 00:49:00 - What are your go-to cold soaking meals? 00:50:10 - Spinning the Wheel 00:52:33 - What's your trail name? 00:54:50 - What about ultralight makes it worth it to you? 00:56:30 - Discussion about AT pace and budget 01:00:30 - Tell us about your goal of hiking three trails in three years 01:02:10 - What does your tennis instructing work look like? 01:03:20 - Did you coach interesting people at country clubs? 01:05:30 - How did you decide to hike southbound on the CDT? 01:10:00 - Discussion about fires on the PCT in 2024 01:14:18 - Tell us about the loneliness on the CDT 01:20:20 - Would you change anything if you hiked the CDT again? 01:21:30 - Anything else to share about the CDT? 01:25:25 - What was your budget for the 3 hikes? 01:27:40 - How did the PCT hike compare to the CDT? 01:30:00 - Do you have tips for dealing with loneliness on trail? 01:31:05 - How was the air quality on the PCT? 01:34:37 - Discussion about ultralight versus mileage 01:37:45 - What were your other takeaways from the PCT? 01:42:08 - What advice do you have for someone who wants to Triple Crown in three years? 01:43:47 - Fuck Marry Kill: AT, PCT, CDT 01:46:18 - What's next for you? 01:48:28 - Stay Salty Question: What's your hottest take in the world of backpacking? Segments Trek Propaganda Karel Sabbe Destroys Te Araroa FKT, Averaging 60 Miles per Day To Set Jaw-Dropping New Record by Katie Jackson 2025 Badger Sponsorship Winners by Kendra Slagter QOTD:  Does either of your ginger-ness come from Irish heritage? Do you celebrate St Patrick's Day? Triple Crown of food combinations Listener Voicemail Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Sign up for the Trek's newsletter Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, brought to you by Topo Athletic, we are joined by Curtis Himstedt, known on trail as Easily Forgotten. Easily Forgotten's backpacking resume is bananas. A partial list of his adventures includes the Annapurna Circuit, Pembrokeshire Coastal Path in Wales, the GR10, Tour du Mont Blanc, Yorkshire Dales High Way, South Downs Way, and Cotswold Way in England, the Triple Crown in the U.S., the Tahoe Rim Trail, and a continuous yo-yo of the Appalachian Trail and Long Trail between 2023-2024. Curtis takes us through these treks, especially the ones we haven't covered on the podcast before, shares how his first divorce inspired him to get into thru-hiking, explains why he feels more like himself on trail than in “the real world,” and gives us a preview of his upcoming adventures as he continues trekking strong into his 60s.  We wrap the show with news of a major gear retailer accused of ties to forced labor, a new navigation app you'll want on your radar for 2025, the triple crown of the worst fashion trends, a debate on how to inform someone of their LNT violation, what we'd replace our hands with if given the choice, and much more. Topo Athletic: Use code “TREKWINTER15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Ombraz: Use code “BACKPACKER30” for $30 off at ombraz.com/discount/backpacker30. [divider] Interview with Curtis Himstedt aka Easily Forgotten Curtis's Website Curtis's Trek Profile Curtis's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:06:10 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! 00:09:45 - Introducing Curtis 00:11:20 - What was your weight loss story? 00:12:55 - How did you get into long distance backpacking? 00:14:53 - How old were you when you were in Boy Scouts? 00:16:57 - Is there a part of you that's grateful to your initial divorce for getting you into hiking? 00:19:00 - What learning lessons did you have on the Annapurna Circuit? 00:23:00 - What was life like on your farm? 00:24:00 - From an engineer's perspective, what was hiking the West Highland Way like? 00:27:05 - Would you recommend the West Highland Way to others? 00:28:52 - Has it ever backfired on you to not plan too much of your hikes? 00:30:40 - Do you feel more comfortable when hiking long trails? 00:32:20 - What advice do you have for someone about to get married? 00:35:00 - Discussion about planning international hikes 00:35:44 - Tell us more about the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path 00:37:33 - Tell us about the Grey Wolf Loop 00:40:20 - Tell us more about hiking in England 00:42:56 - Tell us more about the GR10 00:49:05 - Tell us about hiking the AT in 2018 00:54:50 - Tell us about hiking the PCT in 2019 00:57:08 - How did you like the Oregon Coast Trail? 01:00:10 - At what point do you start planning future hikes? 01:01:50 - Do you feel a sense of fulfillment exploring new trails each year? 01:04:20 - Tell us about the South Downs Way 01:05:48 - What were your top 3 favorite trails in the UK? 01:08:50 - Tell us about the Kerry Way 01:10:53 - Discussion about the Portuguese Camino 01:12:15 - What does your gear look like today? 01:15:01 - Tell us about your hiking in the Azores 01:22:25 - Discussion about not planning lodging on European trails 01:23:28 - Tell us about the Cinque Terre 01:25:25 - Tell us about the Via Degli Dei 01:26:55 - Tell us about your MEGA GAME LT^2 adventure 01:33:00 - Story about Curtis's father 01:38:25 - You don't like FKTs but you like endurance hiking? 01:39:42 - What's the northern section like in the winter? 01:42:50 - How many miles are you typically hiking in a day? 01:44:20 - What about the AT do you love so much? 01:46:05 - What do your next 4 years of hiking look like? 01:49:20 - Peak Performance Question: What is your top performance-enhancing or backpacking hack? Segments Trek Propaganda Outdoor Gear Retailer Decathlon Accused of Ties to Forced Labor in China by Katie Jackson Could This New Mapping App from the Founders of Gaia GPS Become a Thru-Hiker Staple? by Katie Jackson QOTD:  If you had to replace your hands with something else, what would you pick? Triple Crown of the worst fashion trends Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Sign up for the Trek's newsletter Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek and brought to you by LMNT, Chaunce and Badger are serving up tips for this year's class of Appalachian Trail thru-hikers. We're covering everything from social dynamics and budgeting to mental prep, diet, why you should document your hike, some listener submission tips, and much more. We also give a rundown of advice from previous episodes in case you want to dig even deeper into getting ready for the Appalachian Trail. Whether you're hitting the AT this year, planning for a future trek, or know someone who is, this episode is for you. Or for them.  We wrap the show with the latest on the mass layoffs hitting National Park and Forest Service employees, an update from our friends at Rebuild Hot Springs Area on how the funds raised through the Badger Sponsorship are helping with recovery efforts (plus ways you can still get involved), what our trail names would be if they had to be food-centric, and the Triple Crown of Backpacker Radio starter-pack episodes. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Ombraz: Use code “BACKPACKER30” for $30 off at ombraz.com/discount/backpacker30. Timeline: Get 33% off your first order at timeline.com/backpacker33. [divider] Panel with Zach and Chaunce Time stamps & Questions 00:09:50 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! Sign up for the Trek's newsletter 00:13:30 - Introducing Zach and Chaunce 00:18:00 - Tips from past AT episodes, #138 and #140 00:30:30 - Chaunce's Tip #1: Don't rush to find your trail family 00:35:15 - Zach's Tip #1: Document your hike 00:40:35 - Listener Submission #1: Your shit will dry 00:41:28 - Chaunce's Tip #2: Don't take things too seriously 00:43:33 - Zach's Tip #2: Electrolytes 00:48:55 - Listener Submission #2: Don't overplan and don't rush 00:51:47 - Chaunce's Tip #3: Add ⅓ to ½ over your estimated budget 01:03:20 - Zach's Tip #3: Mentally prepare for your thru-hike 01:12:25 - Chaunce's Honorable Mention: Train for downhills 01:17:00 - Stay Salty Question: What's your hottest take in the world of backpacking? Segments Trek Propaganda:  Mass Layoffs of National Park and Forest Workers Threaten the Future of America's Trails by Katie Jackson Rebuild Hot Springs QOTD: If your trail name had to be a food, what would it be and how would you earn it? Triple Crown of BPR starter pack episodes #112: Beginner Backpacking Mistakes #246: Girl Stuff 3.0: Hiking as a New Mom, Pink Blazing, and Fearmongering #14: Data, Chaunce Gets Covered in Poo, and the LWCF #4: The Real Hiking Viking Pt II, Scariest Moments from the Trail, and Thru-Hiking Nutrition #35: Weezer on Hiking Sober, Processing Grief, and Metamorphosis on the Pacific Crest Trail #205: Warren Doyle: Appalachian Trail Legend on His Record 18 Completed AT Traverses #1: The Real Hiking Viking #49: Matt “Pretzel” Mason on Shaking Down New Thru-Hikers, Gear Advice, Wildland Firefighting, and Also Everything #260: John Mackey, Whole Foods Co-Founder, on His Thru-Hiking Experience, Co-Owning Gossamer Gear, and Entrepreneurship #55: Kevin Nealon #43: Clay Bonnyman Evans on AT Cults, Trail Murder Statistics, and YouTube Vlogger Scam Artists #132: Jack “Quadzilla” Jones #17: Thru-Hiking Injury Prevention and Recovery Tips with Dr. Emily Kelly #69: Will “Akuna” Robinson Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Sign up for the Trek's newsletter Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek and brought to you by Topo Athletic, we're joined by Ben Vaugh, known on trail as Ginger Ballz. Ben is a Navy veteran, accomplished thru-hiker, and currently works as a dog musher, a topic Chaunce and Badger had way too much fun diving into. Ginger Ballz takes us through his transition from the military to thru-hiking, why he recommends it to fellow service members, and the parallels between the two. He shares stories from his hikes of the Triple Crown trails, the Hayduke, Superior Hiking Trail, and Long Trail. We also get a deep dive into his current gig managing a dog mushing and guiding company in Colorado, working with Iditarod-winning pups. He breaks down the process of training huskies for guiding, the biggest challenges of mushing, and the unique bond he shares with his dogs. We close out the show with a feature on a man who thru-hiked the AT while legally blind, a debate on whether airplanes have keys, why Zach is no longer allowed to enjoy pho, Chaunce's honey grease, the Triple Crown of abbreviated insults, and more. Topo Athletic: Use code “TREKWINTER15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  [divider] Interview with Ben “Ginger Ballz” Vaughan Ben's Instagram Ben's Facebook Colorado Dog Sledding Website Time stamps & Questions 00:05:12 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! 00:08:05 - Introducing Ben 00:10:00 - Tell us about your Navy experience 00:12:10 - What's it like chasing down pirates? 00:16:06 - Tell us about transitioning between the Navy and thru-hiking 00:19:00 - How did the AT get on your radar? 00:20:38 - Did your military background help you go into the AT with confidence? 00:22:30 - Did you do thru-hiking specific research? 00:24:02 - Did you feel your purpose restored when you started the AT? 00:24:30 - Do you think thru-hikers could succeed in the military? 00:26:20 - Tell us about the Kona Ironman? 00:28:20 - Tell us about the Navy culture in Coronado 00:31:15 - Did you know right away that thru-hiking was for you? 00:34:10 - How did you feel upon finishing the AT? 00:36:00 - What other traits did you get from the Navy that aided you in thru-hiking? 00:39:44 - Tell us about going from the AT to the PCT 00:42:50 - What was it like adjusting to the high snow year on the PCT? 00:48:00 - Can you completely recover from frostbite? 00:50:00 - Did you freak out when you were stuck in a blizzard? 00:51:55 - Was it fun seeing the Sierra in a different season? 00:53:55 - When did you decide to complete the Triple Crown? 00:57:10 - What was the difference in reactions you got on the CDT versus the AT? 00:58:14 - What did your Big 3 look like on the CDT? 01:00:45 - How does a snowy Smokies compare to the snowy Sierras? 01:05:00 - Tell us about hiking the Hayduke 01:09:45 - Tell us about dropping your pack down a canyon 01:12:20 - Tell us about hiking the Superior Hiking Trail 01:15:12 - Tell us about hiking the Long Trail 01:17:00 - How did you end up in Alaska dog mushing? 01:19:30 - What are the dogs like in their off time? 01:22:00 - What does it take to win the Iditarod? 01:23:10 - How do you train the dog to do what it needs to do? 01:24:50 - How can you tell if one of the dogs is getting tired? 01:26:10 - What do the dogs eat? 01:29:15 - Story from the Iditarod 01:31:40 - How does the tour operation work in CO? 01:33:00 - What types of commands do the dogs know? 01:35:10 - Who are your dogs? 01:39:45 - What do you pack for a backcountry dog mushing trip? 01:40:50 - What is your bond like with the dogs? 01:42:00 - How long can the dogs run for? 01:43:40 - Are Huskies all not great off leash? 01:47:05 - Ben is hiring! 01:49:40 - Peak Performance Question: What is your top performance-enhancing or backpacking hack? Segments Trek Propaganda  Thru-Hiking While Blind: Completing the Appalachian Trail With A Visual Disability by Andrew Neylon The Best Trail Runners for Thru-Hiking in 2025 by the Editors QOTD: Do airplanes have keys? Thing of the Week Triple Crown of short insults Gross or Not Gross Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by acclaimed author, marriage therapist, and speaker, Michele Weiner-Davis, known in my household simply as "mom".  Being our Valentine's Day episode, this one is meant to equip you with the knowledge necessary to make your relationship flourish. We cover a range of questions, both general tips on how to improve your relationships, but also thru-hiking specific scenarios, including how to navigate when one partner is on the trail and the other is back home, encountering challenges when hiking together, and how to get buy in from nervous parents (a subject in which my mother is overqualified to speak on). Chaunce also attempts to get Badger to blush by asking embarrassing questions about his past.  We wrap the show with some sobering news about how listeners can help a past guest in her fight against cancer; Chaunce and her fiance, Garrett, air out their pettiest fights; and we search for the perfect word for that post-massive dump feeling. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  [divider] Interview with Michele Weiner-Davis Michele's Website Time stamps & Questions 00:05:15 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! 00:09:00 - Introducing Michele 00:09:50 - What are you most proud of professionally? 00:12:15 - What's the crossover between saving marriages and raising children? 00:13:27 - How does your work influence your own marriage? 00:14:35 - What is it like being mother to Zach Davis? 00:16:10 - What's the dumbest thing you've ever seen Zach do? 00:19:22 - Describe why Zach is called the feral child 00:21:28 - What is something about Zach you don't think the listeners would know? 00:22:45 - What was your advice to Zach when he was engaged and about to hike the PCT? 00:24:48 - How did you get into this work in the first place? 00:29:30 - In what other ways is your angle different from the average therapist? 00:31:00 - Should marriages always be saved? 00:33:18 - Where are the key areas where relationships go wrong? 00:36:50 - How can someone hiking make their partner at home feel valued? 00:43:50 - Discussion about parents reacting to their children's thru-hikes 00:47:30 - How long did it take you to feel comfortable with Zach being on the AT? 00:49:00 - How would you handle a situation where the person at home feels jealous? 00:54:25 - “I love hiking but my wife doesn't. She's short (under 5ft) so how big a backpack would I need to kidnap, I mean, carry her in? Seriously she hates camping and nothing I've tried works. We've been married for almost thirty years. Any suggestions?” 00:55:25 - “If a marriage is already rocky, do you think that sharing a thru-hike is more likely or less likely to help fix a relationship?” 00:58:38 - “So I'm single and not only am I getting into long distance backpacking but I also work in film where we could be hired for a project that has us traveling for months at a time within a week of being hired. I often find myself hesitant to get into a relationship with someone who has a more stable 9-5 lifestyle. How can I approach the initial conversation to set expectations of these long gaps in availability? Should I just stick to dating people in my industry/ people with less traditional lifestyles? Thanks!” 01:00:50 - How would you advise a child to get their parent's sign off for a hike? 01:07:37 - “My partner supported me initially with my desire to do multi day backpacking trips. However, he's now made comments about how he hopes I'm not planning to make this a regular thing (I've gone away twice for ~2.5 weeks). I realize it's a lot to ask when you are a parent, even though our kids are teens, but I do want to be able to continue to enjoy these trips (he's not interested). How would you approach this situation to avoid resentment building on both sides?” 01:11:33 - “Do couples who make it through a thru-hike together really stay together?” 01:16:22 - What kind of conversations can people have prior to the end of the trail? 01:18:07 - “One of the most difficult parts of a thru hike for my wife and I is the time away from each other, but once we get over that and the trail is finished the next hardest thing for both of us is just getting used to being around each other again, we both have basically lived separate lives for the past few months and have become used to our own routines and now we're stuck with each other again. Any tips for making that transition back into “normal” married  life any easier.” 01:21:38 - “I'm considering a thru-hike during a career break. My husband doesn't have the same time off work so I would be hiking without him. He's very supportive of my hiking plans but I worry about what it will do to our marriage if I have this transformational experience without him. Any advice on managing this?” 01:26:55 - “How do I deal with the guilt of leaving a spouse at home while I'm hiking like a happy forest fairy?” 01:28:10 - “Do we outgrow people and stagnate our own growth, or is this a misconception?” 01:32:42 - How much of a good relationship is meeting your soulmate and how much is working towards it? 01:33:45 - Do you think anyone can make a relationship work with anyone? 01:35:45 - Stay Salty Question: What is your hottest take in the world of relationships? 01:40:40 - Is there a book you'd recommend for thru-hikers? Segments Trek Propaganda Fundraiser to Support Renee "She-Ra" Patrick The Ultimate Guide to Making Coffee on Trail by JT Simmons QOTD: What word describes that sweet relieving feeling after taking a big dump? Triple Crown of petty things you've fought over Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by Topo Athletic, we are A'in your Q's, with our pal and yours, the lightly bearded Jabba aka The Real Hiking Viking. In today's question and answer we dive into a host of nitty gritty backpacking details, including what exactly is in our first aid kit, electronics bag (down to the cords), and our stuff sac systems, including some specific product recommendations. We also chat about our least favorite backpacking trips, our thought process in choosing socks for a backpacking trip, and what we deem as the biggest misuse of money when on a thru-hike. Jabba also updates us on what life has been like sans-beard, the fallout with his girlfriend, and if he plans to bring it back. We wrap the show with our go to movie theater orders, why corn maintains its shape when shat, the triple crown of cities we'd add an NFL team and what their mascots would be, and we once again dive down the rabbit hole of how often peepee happens during poopoo. Another very mature episode for the archive. Topo Athletic: Use code “THETREK15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  AG1: Get your free $79 gift at drinkag1.com/backpacker. Timeline: Get 33% off your first order at timeline.com/backpacker33. [divider] Interview with Viking Jabba's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:11:45 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to blog for the Trek! 00:15:05 - Re-introducing Jabba 00:18:57 - What's life been like since you shaved the beard? 00:26:15 - How long have you been a Joe Pesci impersonator? 00:26:58 - Will you grow the beard back? 00:30:25 - What is in your first aid kit? 00:49:00 - What's your favorite planet? 00:52:00 - What is your full electronics kit? 01:01:25 - If you had to have an inside/desk job, what would it be? 01:02:45 - What was that in the Orange Bowl? 01:03:26 - What features of the Zerk did you have strong opinions about? 01:15:15 - What's your least favorite trail over 50 miles? 01:32:35 - Does the carpet match the drapes? 01:33:45 - What is the biggest misuse of money on trail? 01:44:40 - How much thought do you put into your hiking socks? 01:52:00 - Who's the biggest asshole you've ever met on trail? 01:53:17 - How many stuff sacks do you use? 02:08:44 - How old do you think your kids will be for their first backpacking trip? 02:10:45 - What is being married going to do to your thru-hiking career? 02:15:00 - Peak Performance Question: What is your top performance enhancing hack? Segments Trek Propaganda: Biden's Final, Controversial Push for America's Public Lands by Katie Jackson QOTD: What is your movie theater order? QOTD 2: Why does corn come out the same shape as corn? Triple Crown of cities you'd add an NFL team to Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by Demetri Coupounas, aka Coup, the founder of GoLite and MyTrail Company. Coup might just be the most interesting man in the world. This conversation takes us through his incredible journey, from his work balancing the federal budget in the '80s and '90s to becoming the first person to complete unsupported hikes of the Colorado Trail and the Long Trail, and how he stumbled upon the once underground world of ultralight backpacking.  We also dive into the history of GoLite, from its role in popularizing Ray Jardine's ultralight designs to its meteoric rise with more than 20 retail stores nationwide—without taking any investor money—and its eventual downfall, leading to bankruptcy just a few years later. Coup shares the story of MyTrail Co, his follow-up venture, and how he applied the lessons learned from GoLite while stripping away what didn't work, and how that eventually failed to achieve launch.  This episode is an insightful history lesson on GoLite and the world of ultralight backpacking, as well as a fascinating case study on business successes and failures.  We wrap up the show with a new 2-ounce device that could replace your Garmin InReach, what we consider a satisfactory number of steps in a typical day, and the ultimate Triple Crown of best smells. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  [divider] Interview with Demetri “Coup” Coupounas Coup's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:10:20 - Reminders: Join us for our live show in Austin, listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon, and apply to vlog for the Trek! 00:12:40 - Introducing Coup 00:15:15 - What are your favorite backpacking Youtube channels? 00:16:25 - How did you get into politics? 00:28:10 - How fucked are we currently and what's your take on DOGE? 00:34:44 - How did you get into backpacking? 00:42:00 - How would you walk a first time hiker through packing their backpack? 00:51:22 - Do you think fun correlates directly with the weight on your back? 00:53:40 - Why did you take on unsupported hikes? 00:56:35 - Are you pursuing novel experiences or challenging experiences? 00:59:30 - How do you decide what food to bring? 01:05:20 - Tell us about the early days of GoLite 01:10:30 - Did you ever make your own gear? 01:12:02 - Did you have a personal relationship with Ray Jardine? 01:14:55 - Was Ray an owner in the business? 01:17:17 - What were the biggest initial sellers? 01:21:15 - How much effort was involved in convincing people to go lighter? 01:27:02 - What were the first 12 products? 01:38:15 - What did your typical customer look like? 01:46:00 - What was the process of scaling GoLite? 01:55:00 - Why didn't selling direct work well? 02:01:20 - What happened in 2013 and 2014? 02:10:00 - Why didn't you seek investors when money was running out? 02:17:00 - Discussion about the transition to My Trail Co 02:20:24 - What do you keep from the business when going through bankruptcy? 02:26:12 - What is My Trail Co and did you raise as much money as you expected? 02:30:02 - How many products did you offer? 02:32:31 - When did My Trail Co go out of business? 02:38:16 - Why didn't My Trail work? 02:42:45 - Did My Trail investors earn dividends? 02:45:00 - How much of the growth of the cottage industry was to blame? 02:53:07 - What are your plans for the future? 03:01:50 - Stay Salty Question: What is your hottest take in the backpacking world? Segments Trek Propaganda: Could This 2-Ounce Device Replace Your Garmin inReach? By Katie Jackson QOTD:  What is a satisfactory number of steps for your average day? Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek and brought to you by Topo Athletic, we are joined by Sarah “Mellow” Berkeley, founder of Symbiosis Gear, a pack-making company designed specifically for people with boobs. Sarah shares insights into her unique upbringing in a small log cabin in rural Colorado, her adventures on the Long Trail, PCT, Colorado Trail, and half of the CDT, and her journey to creating a backpack tailored for primarily women. We dive into the inspiration behind her patented S-shaped shoulder strap, the challenges of starting a business with no prior industry experience, the help she's received from fellow members of the cottage industry, her plans for future expansion, and much more.  We wrap the show with the announcement of the 2025 Badger Sponsorship, news of a hiker found dead near Mt. Whitney, a debate on when poop officially starts to smell like poop, and the Triple Crown of middle-aged happiness. Topo Athletic: Use code “TREKWINTER15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  [divider] Interview with Sarah Berkeley New Symbiosis Gear Survey Symbiosis Gear on Instagram Symbiosis Gear Website Time stamps & Questions 00:05:15 - Reminders: Apply for the 2025 Badger Sponsorship, join us for our live show in Austin, apply to blog for the Trek, and listen to our episodes ad-free on Patreon! 00:09:07 - Introducing Sarah 00:10:33 - What's your trail name origin story? 00:11:32 - Tell us about building a log cabin with your family 00:16:27 - How did you end up on the Long Trail? 00:17:50 - Did you bring any simple recipes from the wood stove to backpacking? 00:18:30 - Are you happy your parents created that experience for you? 00:20:30 - Was it psychologically easy for you to adjust to backpacking? 00:22:30 - What was the motivation to move to Leadville? 00:26:20 - Walk us through the early stages of getting into backpacking 00:29:35 - How did you manage the Long Trail with a dog? 00:31:45 - What caused you to stick with thru-hiking? 00:34:35 - Did you solve any gear problems going from the Long Trail to the PCT? 00:37:06 - Were you crafty at that point? 00:40:15 - What do you customize for your packs? 00:43:55 - What does the S-strap do? 00:47:15 - Is chafing a common issue? 00:50:00 - Discussion about the pack design 00:52:27 - Are other brands making female-specific packs? 00:56:10 - What are some common sizing questions? 00:58:45 - Who is your ideal customer? 01:04:30 - What do you see as the next way to open up the product offering? 01:08:00 - Discussion about Chaunce's bags 01:12:00 - When did the lightbulb for this pack go off for you? 01:14:28 - What's been the most intimidating part of this effort to tackle? 01:17:05 - What is the fabric on the pack? 01:18:05 - What's it like to go from being new to having some reviews to support the product? 01:20:00 - Did you hike with Double Dip? 01:21:54 - Did you have other CDT hikers using your pack? 01:23:30 - Are the packs coming from a manufacturer? 01:26:05 - Have you connected with other manufacturers in the cottage industry? 01:27:30 - Do you have investors? 01:28:40 - What other frustrations do you have with female gear? 01:31:35 - Peak Performance Question: What is your top performance enhancing hack? Segments Trek Propaganda:  Missing Hiker Found Dead on Mount Whitney by Katie Jackson REI Announces Mass Layoffs and an End to a Beloved Program by Katie Jackson The Best Backpacking Tents for Thru-Hiking in 2025 by the Editors QOTD:  At what point does poop actually start smelling like shit? Triple Crown of middle aged happiness Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by Jared “Snackbox” Champion. Snackbox is s a hiker, father, and Youtuber who, in celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Colorado Trail, hiked it almost exclusively with 50 year old gear.  We talk about the process of sourcing this gear, the hardest items to acquire, the least backpacker-friendly items of the bunch, which gear hasn't advanced as much, and how his appreciation for gear has changed in light of this experience. Jared also shares the story of bonding with his now-wife over their shared love of the Colorado Trail, life as a professor, managing ADHD on trail, and much more.  We wrap the show with a last call for Trek Vlogger applications, Chaunce and I share our take on cowboy (and cowgirl) camping, how thin a pancake can be before it's a crepe, and the triple crown of things we've changed our minds on. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “BACKPACKER20” for 20% off packs at gossamergear.com.  Timeline: Get 33% off your first order at timeline.com/backpacker33. [divider] Interview with Jared “Snackbox” Champion Jared's Instagram Jared's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:05:10 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon, get tickets to our live show in Austin on April 17, and apply to vlog for the Trek! 00:07:45 - Introducing Jared 00:08:15 - What's your trail name origin story? 00:09:50 - What's your favorite dad joke? 00:10:14 - Tell us about your hiking resume 00:11:45 - Tell us about meeting your wife on trail 00:16:34 - Tell us about hiking the Dodson Loop in Big Bend 00:18:33 - Sell Zach on the Collegiate Loop 00:21:50 - Where did this CT hike idea come from? 00:24:30 - Discussion about being a professor 00:27:00 - Discussion about finding sponsors 00:30:55 - Discussion about choosing the shoes 00:32:30 - What pack did you use? 00:35:40 - What tent did you use? 00:38:00 - How did you determine what gear you could cheat on a bit? 00:41:30 - What sleeping bag did you use? 00:44:37 - What did you bring for apparel? 00:45:50 - What was the weight of your pack and how did your mileage change? 00:48:50 - What's your overarching thesis about the hike? 00:52:45 - Do you appreciate ultralight gear more now? 00:55:12 - When does the documentary come out? 00:56:50 - How does ADHD interface with your backpacking experience? 01:03:07 - What fun Colorado Trail history facts do you have? 01:05:02 - Do you know what your next project will be? 01:07:30 - Do you think thru-hiking has curbed any negative symptoms of ADHD? 01:08:40 - Stay Salty Question: What's your hottest take in the world of backpacking? Segments Trek Propaganda Be Honest. Do Any of You Actually Like Cowboy Camping? By Kelly Floro 12,000 Miles and Counting: Peg Leg's Backpacking Gear That Survived the Triple Crown and Beyond by Peg Leg QOTD: How thin can a pancake be before it becomes a crepe? Triple Crown of things you've changed your mind on Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg Martin, Greg McDaniel, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined yet again by Kyle O'Grady of Kyle Hates Hiking for our 2nd live podcast, recorded at the Skylark Lounge in Denver. This episode is action-packed. We kick off the episode by shaving Viking's beard. The beard shaving is the ultimate entertainment,  we encourage you to check this one out on YouTube.  Kyle then shares an exclusive trail mystery about a local Colorado man who disappeared while pursuing another man who also vanished under mysterious circumstances. We also talk shop about YouTube, discussing how Kyle has grown his channel to over half a million subscribers, and he breaks down some of the most intriguing mysteries he's covered in the past year. And we take some questions from the audience.  We wrap the show by debating the largest animal we could take in a fight, the Triple Crown of Euphemisms for Masturbating, acknowledging the ceiling's butt plugs, and much more. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Sierra Club Outings: Use code “BACKPACKER” for $100 off at outings.sierraclub.org. Timeline: Get 33% off your first order at timeline.com/backpacker33. [divider] Interview with Kyle O'Grady Kyle's Instagram Kyle's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:07:00 - The Shaving of the Beard 00:19:20 - Reminders: Subscribe to our newsletter, get tickets to our live show in Austin on April 17, and support us on Patreon! 00:20:53 - Introducing Kyle 00:23:30 - What has led to the growth in your channel over the past year? 00:26:55 - Kyle's new outdoors mystery 00:56:15 - How many trail mysteries have you covered thus far? What are the themes? 01:01:28 - What are the meanest things people say about you? 01:03:15 - Discussion about Youtube thumbnails and strategy 01:05:55 - Do you really hate hiking? 01:11:20 - A second trail story from Kyle! 01:21:25 - When are you hiking the CDT? 01:23:10 - How long does each portion of a Youtube video take? 01:27:30 - How did your PCT miles go this year? 01:31:55 - Should hikers prepare their own missing posters? 01:35:10 - What are your favorite ultralight jerk pro tips? 01:40:28 - What inspired you to start your Youtube channel? 01:45:00 - What's your most popular video and why do you think that is? 01:46:35 - What is your most overrated ultralight luxury? 01:48:05 - Are you planning to hike the AZT? 01:49:35 - Discussion about desert hiking 01:52:25 - How do you keep your hobby separate from your job? 01:55:50 - Stay Salty Question: What's your hottest take in the world of backpacking? Segments QOTD: What's the largest animal you could beat in a fight? Triple Crown of euphemisms for masturbating Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, we're joined by Patrice and Justin La Vigne. Over the past decade-plus, Patrice and Justin have traded their corporate grind for, in their words, “a life less ordinary.” From their first thru-hike of the AT in 2011 (drink), to managing a hostel, embarking on multiple van tours to spread the thru-hiking gospel, thru-hiking the TA in New Zealand, and now living in a 300-square-foot cabin on the outskirts of Denali National Park in Alaska—they've done it all.  We dive into how they restructured their lives around adventure, what it's really like living in a tiny cabin in remote Alaska, why moose are jerks, the challenges of thru-hiking with Crohn's, and much more. We wrap the show with the story of a man accused of staging a bear attack to cover up a murder, what the funniest sounding fart is (and introducing Chaunce to the world of covering your farts), and the triple crown of New Year's Resolutions.  Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  CTDC: Donate $35 or more or sign up for monthly donations at cdtcoalition.org. PATH Projects: Use code “THETREK10”  for 10% off at pathprojects.com/thetrek. [divider] Interview with Patrice & Justin La Vigne Patrice & Justin's Website Patrice & Justin's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:03:30 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content AND ad-free episodes and apply to be a 2025 blogger OR vlogger! And grab a ticket to our live show in Austin on April 17! 00:10:00 - Introducing Patrice and Justin La Vigne 00:11:00 - What was the inspiration to hike the AT in 2011? 00:14:25 - What's the school experience like at ASU and Disney University? 00:19:53 - Tell us about your shakedown hike on the Long Trail 00:23:30 - Why did you decide to go southbound? 00:28:00 - What was your standout insect story on the AT? 00:31:37 - How did the AT lead to your “life less ordinary”? 00:34:20 - What other Disney skills did you carry over to running a hostel? 00:37:46 - At what point did you decide not to return to your careers? 00:48:17 - Which is more glamorous, the van or the hostel? 00:53:00 - How did you end up on the Te Araroa? 00:57:40 - What stood out about the people and culture of New Zealand? 01:01:10 - How long were you in New Zealand? 01:02:37 - What did you between the TA and your van tour? 01:07:30 - Is it more rewarding to travel around doing education than selling gear? 01:10:25 - Tell us about moving to a dry cabin in Alaska 01:18:04 - How do you handle not having running water? 01:22:10 - How do you manage the outhouse? 01:23:20 - What is the town like? 01:25:29 - What is the winter like? 01:29:10 - How do you prevent getting cabin fever in the winter? 01:31:00 - How do you get internet? 01:34:30 - Discussion about the yurt and Alaska amenities 01:35:40 - Have you climbed Denali? 01:44:00 - Discussion about Justin's Crohn's disease 01:46:02 - Tell us more about Crohn's disease on the AT 01:48:32 - Discussion about carrying everything out on Denali 01:52:02 - Do you foresee returning to the corporate lifestyle? 01:54:02 - What's the next chapter for you? 01:57:40 - Discussion about grizzly bears and moose 02:04:07 - Do you hear stories of people getting attacked? 02:06:58 - Where can people keep up with you? Segments Trek Propaganda: Man Accused of Staging Fake Bear Attack To Cover Up a Murder Has Been Arrested by Kelly Floro QOTD:  What is the funniest-sounding fart? Wedding Dress of the Week Triple Crown of New Year's resolutions Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)! Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, we are joined by Carson Oliver, known on trail as Anita. Carson is an accomplished thru-hiker, cyclist, and adventurer. Following up his 2019 PCT thru-hike, Carson completed the Calendar Year Triple Crown in 2023. We of course learn all about this remarkable trek, his circuitous route to make it happen, highlights and lowlights from each trail, and much more. Carson also shares some personal stories, including the tragic loss of his father, who was murdered, and how this has shaped his perspective on life. We wrap the show with news of the oldest woman to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail and a clarification of what it means to thru-hike the AT, and things we wish were holiday traditions, and the triple crown of cringy holiday moments. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Holiday Book Bundle: Get Badger & Chaunce's signed book package here. CTDC: Donate $35 or more or sign up for monthly donations at cdtcoalition.org. Duer: Get 20% off your first purchase at shopduer.com/backpacker. [divider] Interview with Carson Oliver Carson's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:03:30 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content and apply to be a 2025 blogger OR vlogger! 00:06:05 - Introducing Carson 00:08:45 - How would you describe yourself? 00:10:22 - Where did you grow up? 00:14:27 - Where do you suspect your sense of adventure came from? 00:16:15 - Did you ride motorbikes in Vietnam? 00:18:20 - Did you find the north to south journey to be dangerous? 00:20:40 - How did your father's death influence your future adventures? 00:24:38 - How did the PCT interface with processing your grief? 00:26:00 - Tell us about hitting a deer at 75 miles per hour 00:31:20 - Were you afraid to get back on a bike after the accident? 00:36:36 - Tell us about getting your hiking gear in Vietnam 00:40:30 - What'd you get rid of during your hike? 00:41:12 - What was it like to hike through the Sierra during a high snow year? 00:45:00 - Was it hard to split your group in the Sierras? 00:47:40 - Were you happy or sad to reach the end of the snow? 00:49:30 - Tell us about biking across the country 00:53:00 - Were you nervous to mountain bike after the deer accident? 00:55:40 - How do you assess the risk level of mountain biking vs motorcycles? 00:57:22 - How long did your ride take and what route did you take? 01:01:20 - How did your biking experience compare to the PCT? 01:03:00 - Why'd you stop being vegan? 01:04:02 - What was the inspiration for the Calendar Year Triple Crown? 01:07:35 - When and where did you start the trail? 01:13:00 - Was leaving Vermont the first time Type 1 or Type 2 fun? 01:15:45 - Were you stressed out going through the Whites? 01:18:18 - Tell us about being on Franconia Ridge 01:22:40 - Did you sleep in the huts in the Whites? 01:23:30 - How did southern Maine compare to the Whites? 01:25:30 - How was completing the AT and moving to the next trail? 01:30:30 - Did you hike southbound on the CDT and PCT? 01:33:30 - What stories standout from the CDT? 01:35:50 - Did you use your umbrella more for rain or sun? 01:38:00 - Did you ever get the doldrums during your CYTC? 01:40:45 - Any good poop stories? 01:43:35 - What was it like hiking north on the PCT? 01:44:52 - Were you relieved to complete the Sierras? 01:48:15 - What was the highlight of your year? 01:51:05 - Do you have any advice for someone interested in the CYTC? 01:53:40 - Fuck Marry Kill: PCT, CDT, AT and backpacking, motorbiking, and mountain biking 01:55:15 - Kumo Question: What is your favorite historical period and why? Segments Trek Propaganda: Linda “Nana” Vanderloop Just Became the Oldest Woman To Thru-Hike the Appalachian Trail by Kelly Floro QOTD: What do you wish was a holiday tradition? Triple Crown of cringy holiday moments Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek, we're joined by Alison Kondler, an Audubon Master Birder—or as we like to call it, a certified bird guru. Alison wows us with her eerily accurate bird calls and shares her immense birding knowledge. We chat about the rarest birds you can spot in Colorado, the best apps for bird identification, why the American Ornithological Society (AOS) is renaming North American birds that are named after people, how to squirrel-proof your bird feeder, tips for turning your yard into a borderline bird sanctuary, and she finally settles the debate on whether birds are in fact government drones. If you're a bird lover—or even bird curious—this episode is for you. We wrap the show with a lively debate about whether thru-hiking belongs in the Olympics, the triple crown of underrated wildlife, a former guest obliterating the Arizona Trail FKT, and a generous dose of shameless self-promotion. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Holiday Book Bundle: Get Badger & Chaunce's signed book package here. Sierra Club Outings: Use code “BACKPACKER” for $100 off at outings.sierraclub.org. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. [divider] Interview with Alison Kondler Alison's Instagram Alison's Facebook Alison's TikTok Alison's Youtube Alison's LinkedIn Time stamps & Questions 00:03:30 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content and apply to be a 2025 blogger OR vlogger! 00:11:14 - Introducing Alison 00:11:50 - What is an Audubon Master Birder? 00:13:45 - What does someone do with this certification? 00:15:10 - Was your family very into birds? 00:16:07 - When did you first interact with birds? 00:17:10 - What's the outcome of interacting with birds? 00:20:30 - How long did it take you for your calls to be indistinguishable from birds? 00:22:20 - Can you make other animal sounds? 00:25:19 - What are the most common birds you'll hear in Colorado? 00:27:45 - What are the rarest birds you'll hear in Colorado? 00:29:40 - Discussion about the common ages of birders 00:30:37 - What's your take on the movie The Big Ear? 00:31:50 - How do you prove that you've seen all the birds you claim? 00:32:57 - What Colorado birds would people travel from out of state to see? 00:33:50 - What's your take on pet birds? 00:34:17 - Which birds are the asshole birds? 00:35:44 - What's the easiest bird call to teach to others? 00:37:40 - How do you pick the right bird feeder for your yard? 00:39:35 - On a scale of 1 to 10, where do you stand on squirrels? 00:41:45 - What is the prettiest bird call? 00:43:20 - Bird call trivia 00:45:35 - How do you get rid of woodpeckers on your house? 00:47:40 - What's your view on crows? 00:49:30 - Are you familiar with bird folklore? 00:51:05 - Bird call trivia round 2 00:53:05 - Why is the American Ornithological Society changing the names of many birds? 00:57:55 - What's some hot gossip in the bird world? 00:59:20 - What makes a good area to go birding? 01:00:45 - What are some fun facts about ducks? 01:02:10 - Fuck Marry Kill: Ducks, geese, swans 01:03:50 - Aside from Colorado, where else do you love to watch birds? 01:05:00 - What's your best bird story? 01:07:00 - Discussion about rescuing birds 01:08:55 - What's the best birding app? 01:10:30 - Are there any endangered birds in Colorado? 01:11:50 - Are there any organizations dedicated to preserving birds? 01:12:48 - Do you think there's more to owls than meets the eye? 01:13:40 - Do you think birds might be drones? 01:15:10 - What makes the best bird ecosystem in your backyard? 01:16:47 - Discussion about European starlings 01:19:16 - What bird product is a total scam? 01:21:45 - Any good tips for hummingbird feeders? 01:23:58 - If you could pick one bird to fill the world with, which one would you pick? 01:24:20 - Do you have a strong stance on wind turbines? 01:25:30 - How can people minimize harm to birds in their yard? 01:26:30 - Tell us about your social media following 01:27:53 - What are the best flowers for hummingbirds? 01:29:20 - What are the most common questions you get on social media? 01:31:01 - Kumo Question: What is the strangest dream you've ever had? 01:32:32 - What upcoming events are you hosting? Segments Trek Propaganda Nick Fowler Decimates Fastest Known Time on the Arizona Trail by Katie Jackson The Backpacker and Hiker Gift Guide: Under $50 by the Editors QOTD: Should thru-hiking be an Olympic sport? Triple Crown of underrated wildlife Mail Bag (Wade's Adventures) 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we are joined by Madison Blagden, known on trail as Peg Leg. Peg Leg is a thru-hiking powerhouse and a Trek blogging all-star. Over the past 1.5 years, Madison has logged 8,600 miles while cranking out nearly 300 blogs, documenting almost every single day of her journeys on the Eastern Continental Trail and the CDT. Peg Leg dives deep into her epic ECT adventure, including how she became just the second woman to complete the entire trail. We get into the nitty-gritty of the International AT, dealing with creepy fellas in Florida, and the time she drank booze through her hiking sock. Madison also gives us the lowdown on her CDT hike this year, sharing a terrifying story of a near-death flash flood experience, what it's like to be recognized on trail so often, and her big hiking plans for 2025. We wrap the show with a fuck marry kills of oceans rivers and lakes, the triple crown of genie wishes, and we're blessed with a wonderful listener poop story. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Holiday Book Bundle: Get Badger & Chaunce's signed book package here. [divider] Interview with Madison “Peg Leg” Blagden Peg Leg's Trek Profile Peg Leg's Instagram Peg Leg's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:04:00 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:09:00 - Introducing Peg Leg 00:09:50 - How many blog posts have you written for the Trek? 00:10:51 - What's your process for blogging? 00:15:15 - What's your preference between writing and videos? 00:16:00 - How did you end up on the PCT in 2017? 00:18:50 - What were some of your first time backpacking mistakes? 00:21:05 - Was it hard to get off in the middle of the trail? 00:23:20 - Discussion about going through the Sierra in 2017 00:25:30 - Tell us about doing the PCT in 2022 00:28:40 - How long did your IT band issue persist? 00:30:20 - How did your gear evolve from 2017 to 2022? 00:33:12 - Tell us about your initial hiking vision for 2023 00:36:00 - What were your first impressions of hiking in the east? 00:37:30 - Was it hard to incorporate blogging into your day during the hike? 00:41:00 - What stands out to you from your AT hike? 00:44:00 - Tell us about getting norovirus 00:46:02 - Discussion about trail magic 00:47:50 - What does it mean to be on time for the hunting season? 00:49:27 - How did you decide to do the international portion? 00:50:55 - How did you go from Katahdin to the Canadian border? 00:52:28 - Was it hard to go from hiking with people to hiking alone? 00:54:00 - Is there a FarOut map for the IAT? 00:56:00 - What were the towns like? 00:57:50 - You saw a hiker with a cat? 00:59:15 - You saw a Canadian lynx? 01:01:00 - Tell us about seeing a caribou 01:05:00 - Discussion about using ropes 01:06:35 - Reindeer facts 01:08:13 - Did you hike the IAT with a partner? 01:09:40 - What was your week off like in Canada? 01:11:16 - What's your go to town meal? 01:12:45 - Tell us about the island hopping portion of the IAT 01:14:30 - How did the vibe of your hike change once you joined with more people? 01:17:00 - When did you decide to go back to do the Florida portion? 01:18:45 - Discussion about Peg Leg's injury 01:19:50 - How long was the Canadian portion of the IAT and how long did it take you? 01:21:35 - When did you start the Pinhoti and when did you get to Key West? 01:24:30 - Discussion about road walking through Alabama 01:25:30 - Did you adjust to the road walking okay? 01:27:20 - Tell us about reaching the Florida Trail 01:29:00 - Tell us about being followed on the trail 01:40:50 - Is being trail famous a net positive or a net negative? 01:41:26 - What would you want to relay to any fans of yours? 01:46:20 - Do you have any advice for people who want to do their hike publicly? 01:48:24 - Tell us about falling in deep water on the Florida Trail 01:52:00 - How do you know if something is in the water or not? 01:55:45 - What should you do if you get attacked by an alligator? 01:58:50 - Did you see any scary animals? 02:00:28 - What was it like to finish in Key West? 02:01:48 - Tell us about doing a sock-ey at the end of your hike 02:04:02 - How did you feel at the end, and had you already planned to hike the CDT? 02:07:57 - Did anybody recognize you while you were off trail? 02:08:19 - How did you decide to go southbound on the CDT and find your group? 02:09:45 - Tell us about the beginning of the CDT 02:11:25 - What are your standout stories from the CDT? 02:12:30 - Tell us about your dicey moment in the Winds? 02:16:04 - How did your group fluctuate over the trail? 02:18:19 - Tell us about your flash flood moment on the CDT 02:25:55 - Was that the scariest moment of your thru-hiking career? 02:26:50 - Was the end of the CDT anticlimatic? 02:27:34 - What's next for you? 02:30:12 - Are you excited about your future plans or nervous? 02:31:27 - Kumo Question: What is your favorite movie soundtrack? Segments Trek Propaganda: You'll Kick Yourself if You Make Any of These Common Thru-Hiker Mistakes by Kelly Floro QOTD:  Fuck Marry Kill: Oceans, rivers, lakes Triple Crown of genie wishes Listener Voicemail (and leave us your own!) Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Alex Kindle, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, Ruth S, and Spencer Hinson.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek we are joined once again by our pal and backpacking legend, Andrew Skurka. We cover a host of new subjects including the future of dedicated satellite communicators with smartphones introducing satellite texting capabilities, what he foresees for the fate of rain gear in light of the move away from PFAS, how the first season of guiding trips went in Yellowstone, his favorite backpacking destinations in each of the lower 48s four time zones, and he gives Chaunce a live, in-person questionnaire to match her with the appropriate backpacking route, like an old school Facebook quiz. We're also joined by Andrew's wife, Amanda, and we chat about more relationship and personal topics like what it's like for your spouse to be in the backcountry for several months of the year, the challenging decision between having kids or not, the benefits of a DINK lifestyle, and much more. This is a wide-ranging conversation, from technical backpacking subjects to more intimate, personal topics, and I think and hope you'll really enjoy it.  We wrap the show with how one unlucky hiker realized Badger's near fate of being wedged between boulders for several hours in pursuit of her phone, our biggest low stakes conspiracy theories, Chaunce ran a marathon, and the triple crown of cocktails. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Trailbrush: Use code “TREK20” for 20% off trailbrush.com.  [divider] Interview with Andrew Skurka Skurka's Website Skurka's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:02:50 - Reminders: Help us make Jabba shave his beard, support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:08:52 - Introducing Skurka 00:10:10 - What's your take on PFAS leaching from GoreTex? 00:16:07 - Do you sleep with your food? 00:19:39 - What are your thoughts on bear canisters on the AT? 00:20:20 - How were the first trips out of Yellowstone? 00:23:22 - Discussion about fitness level on Skurka's trip applications 00:26:56 - Chaunce's sample application 00:32:51 - If you had one week to backpack in each of the four time zones in the lower 48, where would you go and why? 00:40:00 - Discussion about birds 00:45:20 - What are Skurka's other hobbies? 00:48:06 - What are the top three shoes to get you through a year? 00:52:35 - Pacific Time zone backpacking 00:53:30 - Do you have any trips in the Cascades or Olympics next year? 00:54:50 - How experienced do you have to be to do the Wind River High Route? 00:59:58 - Best toilet paper alternatives 01:05:50 - What was your reaction when you first learned about the backcountry bidet? 01:06:45 - How much do you backpack together? 01:12:00 - How did you two meet? 01:19:00 - Discussion about Skurka's risk tolerance 01:21:38 - What's Amanda's perspective on satellite communication from home? 01:23:55 - How many days would Amanda want Andrew to be traveling? 01:25:44 - Do you foresee phasing yourself out of the guiding trips? 01:27:00 - Discussion about relationship dynamics 01:32:05 - What's your take on iPhones' new satellite texting feature? 01:40:00 - What's a new Skurka hot take? 01:45:50 - What happened with GoLite? 01:53:40 - How did you decide not to have kids? 02:01:05 - What are the advantages of a DINK lifestyle? 02:12:50 - What advice would you give to someone trying to decide whether to have kids? 02:18:58 - What trips are open for 2025? 02:21:00 - Which of your guides do you want to shout out? 02:26:05 - Do you still have the scholarship program? 02:36:35 - What signature trips are offered in 2025? 02:30:10 - Kumo Question: What is the one skill you wish you had mastered? What's the weirdest job you ever had? Segments Trek Propaganda Hiker Trying To Retrieve Dropped Phone Spends 7 Hours Wedged Upside Down in a Crevice by Katie Jackson CDT Thru-Hike Stats: Showers Make Thru-Hikers Sad and Other Data-Driven Insights From the Trail by Katie Jackson QOTD:  What's your biggest low-stakes conspiracy theory? Stupid Thing of the Week Triple Crown of cocktails Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we are joined by thru-hiker and Trek Writer, Katie Jackson, known on trail as Double Dip. Katie gives us an in depth breakdown of her recent thru-hike of the Continental Divide Trail, including why she advocates that hikers not take the Creede cutoff, her experience of a wild storm so intense that lightning struck and killed nearby cows, the challenge of losing her hiking partner early on, hiking on an injured foot for hundreds of miles- and how it was miraculously healed in some hot springs, waking up to grizzles in her camp, and much more. Katie also gives some of her backpacking hot takes, including how the Colorado Trail is superior to the JMT. We wrap the show with whether it'll be possible to thru-hike the AT in 2025, the incredible phenomenon that is Frito feet, my new depressing thing of the week, and the triple crown of places where a long trail should exist. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Trailbrush: Use code “TREK20” for 20% off trailbrush.com.  [divider] Interview with Katie “Double Dip” Jackson Katie's Trek author page Katie's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:02:46 - Reminders: Help us make Jabba shave his beard, support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:07:55 - Introducing Katie 00:08:40 - What's your outdoors origin story? 00:11:15 - What's your 9 to 5? 00:14:24 - Would you recommend consulting to people interested in thru-hiking? 00:16:05 - How does your engineering brain manifest while hiking? 00:18:37 - Did you plan anything on the Colorado Trail that you did not plan for the CDT? 00:19:30 - How many boxes did you send yourself on the CDT? 00:21:35 - What other regrets do you have from hiking the Colorado Trail? 00:27:07 - How did your eating strategy evolve over the CT? 00:31:00 - Discussion about the Cochetopa section of the CT 00:36:12 - What led you to the John Muir Trail in 2023? 00:38:02 - Which trail is better between the CT and JMT? 00:40:00 - Why didn't you love the Winds? 00:41:18 - Was your dad okay with you doing the CDT in 2024? 00:42:10 - Did you ever have any issues with satellite messages not going through? 00:43:35 - How was New Mexico? 00:44:40 - Tell us about losing your hiking partner early on 00:49:54 - Would you feel comfortable starting the CDT alone now? 00:52:45 - How was the water in New Mexico? 01:02:45 - How would you rate New Mexico 1 out of 10? 01:05:00 - How much snow did you encounter? 01:08:10 - When did you use your ice axe? 01:10:30 - Were most people getting beaten up? 01:14:30 - What advice do you have to avoid silly mistakes? 01:18:35 - What were your top 5 snacks? 01:21:20 - Discussion about Katie's backpack 01:23:25 - Tell us about the next stretch of trail and your foot injury 01:26:45 - What was the diagnosis from the doctor? 01:28:35 - Story about stopping in Granby 01:33:00 - How did your foot eventually heal? 01:35:40 - Tell us about taking the cutoff around Rocky Mountain National Park 01:36:50 - If you did the CDT again, would you do any different alternates? 01:38:45 - Did you experience judgment because you hadn't done another long trail before? 01:42:00 - Discussion about unsolicited advice 01:43:30 - How was the mental aspect of the trail compared to your expectations? 01:45:00 - Tell us about Wyoming and adding whimsy to the trail 01:48:25 - Why didn't you love the Winds? 01:49:27 - Tell us about the Idaho-Montana border 01:51:50 - Would you do the trail again SOBO? 01:53:05 - Tell us about almost getting hit by lightning 02:01:20 - What was the best trail magic of the CDT? 02:05:05 - Tell us about the Montana section 02:06:37 - How did you manage your long distance relationship? 02:08:10 - Did Montana meet your expectations? 02:11:50 - Did you see any grizzlies? 02:14:47 - What was it like to get to the terminus? 02:17:36 - Kumo Question: What is your favorite book and why? 02:20:17 - Where can people follow you? Segments Trek Propaganda Will It Even Be Possible To Thru-Hike the AT in 2025? by Kelly Floro Why I'm NEVER Hiking in a Dress Again by Kelly Floro QOTD:  Do you know about Frito feet? Depressing Thing of the Week Triple Crown of where a long trail should be Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we're joined by Bennett “Jolly” Fisher, the founder and visionary behind Jolly Gear. We learn all about Jolly's entry into backpacking, including his first thru-hike at just 18 years old alongside his dad, hiking 300 miles of the PCT on a broken ankle, and some hilariously embarrassing Jabba stories from their recent hike on the CDT. We, of course, dive deep into his apparel company, Jolly Gear, and how he's flipped the thru-hiking fashion world on its head with his unique sun hoodie button-downs. We chat about the biggest challenges associated with running an apparel business, how a misunderstanding lead to his early signature design, how he manages the business while backpacking, his process for sourcing new designs, and much more. We close the show with the triple crown of cringeworthy things, a discussion of what should be free but isn't, an impromptu drop-in from Jabba, and an AT conditions update courtesy of Quadzilla. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Trailbrush: Use code “TREK20” for 20% off trailbrush.com.  [divider] Interview with Bennett “Jolly” Fisher Jolly Gear Website Jolly Gear Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:02:50 - Reminders: Help us make Jabba shave his beard, support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:08:00 - Introducing Jolly 00:12:38 - We Love Love: Tell us your engagement story 00:16:05 - What was your entry into backpacking? 00:21:20 - Did you consider quitting early on in the AT hike? 00:23:00 - What was your social experience like on the AT? 00:24:15 - How'd you get your trail name? 00:27:00 - Has your dad hiked again since the AT? 00:28:30 - How did your parents support you starting out on the PCT? 00:30:15 - At what point did you get into shirt research? 00:33:00 - How far did you get on the PCT in 2017? 00:34:00 - Why'd you get off the trail in 2017? 00:39:10 - Tell us about your foot injury in 2021 00:45:42 - Are you still adjusting your footwear? 00:50:13 - At what point did you first want to design a hiking shirt? 00:53:00 - Discussion about the Outdoor Product Development program 00:56:14 - Did your first shirt have your signature design? 01:01:12 - Do you get good feedback about having women's sizes? 01:02:00 - Was there anything functionally different between your prototype and what was on the market? 01:05:09 - How did the style evolve? 01:11:00 - Are all the shirts the same UPF? 01:12:23 - What material is the shirt? 01:15:23 - Have you ever thought about making shorts? 01:19:40 - What's your day to day like? 01:21:40 - Do you have a vision for where you want the brand to be in 5 years? 01:24:54 - Are you planning to ever use the snap buttons? 01:27:00 - Discussion about pursuing a denim shirt 01:29:50 - How do you decide on future patterns? 01:30:54 - What's the biggest challenge of your job? 01:32:43 - Have you seen other brands imitating some of your patterns? 01:34:50 - What's the best Jabba story you have? 01:44:40 - Kumo Question: What is the one thing you wish you were better at? 01:47:13 - What's next for you? Segments Trek Propaganda:  Trek for Trevor: Get 20% off a pair of microspikes before you hike through the San Jacinto Mountains on the PCT.  Jack “Quadzilla” Jones: On-the-Ground Hurricane Helene Status Update and 2025 Predictions by Kelly Floro QOTD:  What should be free but isn't? Triple Crown of cringy things Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Mud Tom, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we are joined by Shari Edelson. Shari is a PhD student researching human impacts in wilderness areas, specifically the impacts of human dookie in the backcountry. We chat about in which circumstances wagbags are warranted, the challenges with compliance when they are, when it's perfectly okay to bury your shit, and how future conservation efforts should be allocated to making this easier to understand for hikers. We also chat about Shari's thru-hike of the TA and are blessed with some plant fun facts, stemming from their background as a horticulturist. We wrap the show with how to score the most competitive long trail permits in 2025, if farts are pushing out poop or if poop is pushing out farts, and the triple crown of things that happen all the time but no one sees. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Duer: Get 20% off your first purchase at shopduer.com/backpacker. [divider] Interview with Shari Edelson Shari's Trek author page Shari's email: sedelson@psu.edu Time stamps & Questions 00:02:27 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:07:00 - Introducing Shari 00:08:05 - What's the coolest plant fact you know? 00:11:30 - Do you have a favorite house plant? 00:13:16 - Tell us about your career managing public landscapes and gardens 00:16:40 - Is there a different soil type for a vegetable garden versus an arboretum? 00:17:40 - What tips do you have for someone who wants to start a vegetable garden? 00:20:20 - Tell us about hiking the Te Araroa in 2023 00:24:15 - What's your elevator pitch for hiking northbound on the Te Araroa? 00:27:15 - Discussion about Shari blogging for the Trek on the TA 00:28:40 - What's your background in studying poop? 00:35:00 - What were your interviews like on Longs Peak? 00:37:22 - Do people poop on day hikes? 00:42:22 - What did you learn about how many people were burying it? 00:46:20 - Discussion about the usage of wag bags 00:52:00 - What do you know about mycelium tabs? 00:55:06 - What was the conclusion of the Mt. Elbert study? 00:57:40 - Would it be feasible to have maps of poop zones? 00:59:37 - Has this been evaluated on backpacking trails? 01:02:40 - What's the next phase of the study? 01:04:20 - Discussion about where to carry out wag bags 01:06:53 - What do you want the listener's take away to be? 01:10:15 - Kumo Question: If you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be? Segments Trek Propaganda: How To Score 9 of the Most Competitive US Hiking Permits in 2025 by Ariella Nardizzi QOTD:  Are farts pushing out poop or is poop pushing out farts? Triple Crown of things that happen all the time but no one sees Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Old Man Murph's Coffee Roasters, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by Topo Athletic, we're joined by Tara Dower, the new holder of overall Fastest Known Time on the Appalachian Trail. Tara gives us the low down on every aspect of her recent record-breaking trek, including how she fell wildly behind pace after the first two states, her nutrition, her sleep habits (or lack thereof), how vital her crew was in her success, the criticism she's faced for "hiking too fast", running a 100-mile race just a few weeks prior to the attempt, and much more. Tara also goes into more depth on her backpacking and FKT background and we subject her to a pair of brutally awkward fornicate, marry, kill questions. Fun times all around.   We wrap the show with our triple crown of guilty pleasure songs, a stupid thing of the week (Zach hurts himself again), and the most unrealistic thing we thought we could be when we were kids. Raise $10,000 and the Real Hiking Viking Will Do the Unthinkable… Topo Athletic: Use code “THETREK15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. [divider] Interview with Tara “Candy Mama” Dower Tara's Instagram Tara's Website Tara's Youtube Time stamps & Questions 00:05:55 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:07:55 - Introducing Tara 00:09:29 - Are you still recovering? 00:10:45 - What mantras did you have? 00:13:00 - What was your origin story in the outdoors? 00:17:12 - When did you decide to pursue the Mountains to Sea Trail FKT? 00:19:00 - Did you impress yourself at that moment? 00:21:30 - Tell us about getting off the AT because of anxiety 00:23:05 - How do you manage anxiety during an FKT attempt? 00:24:25 - Were you tough growing up? 00:26:45 - What inspired you to want to continue pursuing FKTs? 00:29:55 - Tell us about the John Muir Trail 00:31:20 - What part of running do you dislike the most? 00:32:30 - Tell us about the Benton MacKaye Trail FKT 00:34:40 - Tell us about the Colorado Trail FKT 00:36:20 - Discussion about support classifications 00:40:25 - How do you deal with critics? 00:44:30 - How did the Colorado Trail change your outlook on future FKTs? 00:46:00 - When did you decide to go after the AT FKT? 00:48:38 - Did you initially plan to beat the overall record? 00:50:08 - Were you intimidated by others who tried and failed to beat the record? 00:51:30 - Did you notice a transition in social media as you were running? 00:55:18 - Why did your anxiety influence which direction you went? 00:57:20 - How long before you started was the Hard Rock? 01:00:00 - What was it like going through Mahoosuc Notch at FKT pace? 01:01:44 - Tell us about being behind pace at first 01:05:27 - How did your crew chief motivate you? 01:07:03 - Did you ever disagree about decisions? 01:08:00 - How much of a trail was solo or with a pacer? 01:09:50 - What was your adjustment like after the FKT? 01:12:45 - How has your nutrition changed over the years? 01:18:55 - Did you have any near injuries? 01:19:40 - Can you pinpoint a low moment? 01:23:30 - Did you hallucinate? 01:26:45 - Tell us about your average mileage and sleep during the FKT 01:30:40 - Is Rascal's position a paid position? 01:31:34 - Did you have any paid sponsorship during this run? 01:32:26 - When did you know you had it? 01:35:02 - Did you conceptualize how big of a deal it was going to be? 01:36:35 - Tell us about raising money for Girls on the Run 01:38:20 - Fuck Marry Kill: thru-hiking, FKTs, ultraracing 01:39:31 - Fuck Marry Kill: Outside Magazine, Washington Post, The Trek 01:40:34 - Kumo Question: What's something you've always wanted to try but haven't had the courage to do yet? Segments Trek Propaganda: Tara Dower Sets Overall Fastest Known Time on Appalachian Trail by Kelly Floro QOTD:  What is the most unrealistic thing you thought you could be when you were a kid? Stupid Thing of the Week Triple Crown of guilty pleasure songs Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Old Man Murph's Coffee Roasters, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by Topo Athletic, we are joined by Jabba and Lt Cookoo for another BPR classic. This one, in expected fashion, is all over the map. We start by getting a brief update of what Cookoo has been up to since his last appearance on the show followed by a more detailed update from Jabba, primarily about a once-in-a-lifetime bikepacking trip through Iceland, a trip that nearly robbed his soul in the best and worst way possible. We then dive into a QA format, including the top advice they'd give to themselves before their first backpacking trip, their favorite treks that take one month or less, the best stories from the trails they've hiked together, the inevitable point at which they butt heads and much more. The boys stick around for segments, which is also predictably weird. We provide our wiping techniques in alarming detail, the triple crown of things a dentist can say but not a gynecologist, and Viking gives Chaunce wedding advice.  Topo Athletic: Use code “THETREK15” at topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Duer: Get 20% off your first purchase at shopduer.com/backpacker. [divider] Interview with Jabba & Lt. Cookoo Bird Jabba's Instagram Cookoo's Instagram Backpacker Radio #194 | Bruce “Lt. Cookoo Bird” Lynn on the Sierra High Route, Wind River High Route, Hayduke, Biking Across the Country, and More Time stamps & Questions 00:04:45 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:07:47 - Introducing Jabba & Lt. Cookoo Bird 00:09:30 - Is Jabba still sober? 00:11:35 - Zach & Jabba's fantasy football punishments 00:14:50 - What adventures has Cookoo done in 2024? 00:18:50 - Cookoo's self-arresting technique 00:20:15 - Cuckoo on the Teton Crest Trail 00:21:54 - Cookoo's mountaineering 00:23:19 - What adventures has Jabba done in 2024? 00:28:20 - Why don't comfier bike seats exist? 00:33:30 - Jabba hiking the other half of the CDT 00:39:01 - Jabba's Ragbrai trip 00:47:20 - Jabba's Iceland trip introduction 00:50:30 - Iceland route description 00:52:54 - Jabba's (lack of) trip preparation 00:59:00 - How did you get your bike to Iceland? 01:00:00 - Iceland's singletrack trail difficulty 01:04:00 - Jabba's mindset while biking 01:06:15 - End of Day 1 01:08:55 - Day 2 01:12:38 - How much were you walking your bike versus riding your bike? 01:16:07 - Is it Type 2 fun? 01:19:45 - End of Day 2 01:24:20 - Discussion about hiking in sand 01:31:05 - Going back to get the AirPods 01:34:35 - Day 3 01:42:49 - What would you do differently if you did this trip again? 01:45:00 - Getting to the end location of Day 3 01:49:35 - Day 5 01:58:24 - End of Day 5 02:02:50 - Have you been in contact with Chris since the trip? 02:04:30 - What's the best one month or shorter hike you've ever done? 02:13:31 - If you could go back in time to your first thru-hike, what would you do differently? 02:16:46 - How do you figure out footwear faster? 02:22:16 - What is your best story about the other story? Segments Trek Propaganda: “I Just Had To Skip So Many Miles”: How 2024 PCT Thru-Hikers Are Adapting to Fires and Trail Closures by James Townsend QOTD:  Does your butt stay on the toilet seat when you wipe? Triple Crown of things a dentist can say, but not a gynecologist Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Old Man Murph's Coffee Roasters, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bells, Bonnie Ackerman, Chris Pyle, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

On this episode of Random Encounter, we have another two GOTY contenders for you!First up is Dragon Age: The Veilguard, the first new Dragon Age in a decade ! After BioWare's last two flops, they desperately needed a win, and it certainly sounds like they got one with this new installment of the long-running and beloved series! Audra is here to share all of her thoughts on how Dragon Age has evolved since Dragon Age: Inquisition back in 2014!And then Ben is here to torture Jono by chatting about Romancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven! A remake of Super Famicom's Romancing Saga 2 from back in 1993, Revenge of the Seven lovingly reimagines the epic storyline set over hundreds of years and dozens of generations of heroes. Don't let Jono's grumbling about the series put you off because this might be a dark horse favorite for GOTY!Featuring: Jono Logan, Audra Bowling, and Ben Love; Edited by Jono LoganGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: podcast@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomThis Episode's Related Links:Dragon Age: Origins ReviewDragon Age II ReviewDragon Age: Inquisition ReviewRomancing SaGa 2: Revenge of the Seven ReviewRomancing SaGa 2 (2016) ReviewRomancing SaGa 3 (2019) Review

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to by LMNT, we are breaking down our recent hike of the Northville Placid Trail. Chaunce, Elise, and yours truly recently set out south from Lake Placid to trek as much of the trail as we could in a 5-day period. Spoiler alert- I was forced off trail first, Chaunce did the full thing, Elise split the difference between the two of us. We give you a day by day breakdown of our trek, including a not so fun first day, a family fight on day two featuring a midday meltdown, our favorite moments from the trail (like an epic campsite off Long Lake) and much more. We also give you the rough and dirty on the NPT, including the distance, elevation gain, resupply options, terrain, water, etc yatta yatta. We wrap the show with the triple crown of John Travolta movies, whether we'd prefer the perfect stick or the perfect rock, and a one-minute gear review! LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Hikerkind: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at hikerkind.com. [divider] Panel with Zach, Chaunce, and Elise Chaunce's Instagram Badger's Instagram Elise's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:05:00 - Reminders: Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, join us in Denver on December 7th and apply to be a 2025 blogger! 00:09:40 - Introducing the NPT Panel 00:11:30 - Northville Placid Trail basics 00:13:30 - Hiking direction 00:15:05 - Day 1 of hiking 00:27:00 - Night 1 00:32:55 - Bugs, darkness, and mileage 00:42:30 - Day 2 00:47:45 - The family fight 00:58:00 - Night 2 01:02:15 - Day 3 01:06:40 - Zach's incident 01:11:05 - Odds games 01:22:02 - Zach's second incident 01:23:40 - Getting off trail 01:27:05 - Night 3 01:32:13 - Day 4 01:51:25 - Zach's day 4 01:54:00 - Day 5 01:59:55 - Elise's weird encounters 02:08:20 - Zach's day 5 02:10:45 - Stay Salty: If you could turn any everyday activity into an Olympic sport, what would you win gold in? Segments QOTD: Would you rather find the perfect stick or the perfect rock? Triple Crown of John Travolta Movies One Minute Gear Reviews Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by James Appleton. James is a walking encyclopedia on all things Adirondacks, hosting a podcast dedicated to the park, having authored a book about its lore, and he serves as a hiking guide throughout the region. James gives us the rundown on these rugged 46ers, including superlatives like his favorite, the most underrated, the most overrated, and the best for beginners. He also provides a primer on the Northville-Placid Trail, shares the best and worst times to experience the park, and offers an overview of the Lake Placid 9'er, a challenge he created. James also gives us the lowdown of how awkward it is to be on a film set during a sex scene.  We wrap up the show with the news of Hurricane Helene's historic destruction throughout the southern Appalachias, and how people can contribute to the relief and recovery efforts, the triple crown of commercials (including how our editor's dad is the commercial GOAT), whether you'd rather find cockroaches or a body in your attic, and the full rundown of going to Buffalo for the MNF Bills game. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Hikerkind: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at hikerkind.com. Duer: Get 20% off your first purchase at shopduer.com/backpacker. [divider] Interview with James Appleton James' Instagram 46 Outdoors Co Website Seek To Do More Website Time stamps & Questions 00:06:15 - Reminders: Join us in Denver on December 7th! Apply to be a 2025 blogger and support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content! 00:12:05 - Introducing James 00:12:53 - What was your introduction to the outdoors? 00:15:27 - What are the hot spots in Lake Placid? 00:18:05 - Tell us about the Blue Line Bakery 00:20:00 - Tell us about working in the film industry 00:23:00 - What's the coolest movie you've worked on? 00:24:30 - Tell us about working on a sex scene 00:27:25 - Is it difficult to hike peaks with a lot of muscle on your upper body? 00:31:30 - Discussion about Adirondack hiking culture 00:36:20 - What are the most common 46ers to start off with? 00:38:35 - Do you need map and compass skills? 00:40:31 - Tell us about the Lake Placid 9er 00:42:20 - What led you into losing weight and how did it work for you? 00:44:57 - What was your guilty pleasure snack? 00:46:30 - Was it hard to workout while cutting carbs out? 00:48:27 - What are the highlights of the Northville Placid Trail? 00:53:00 - Discussion about James' podcast 00:54:42 - What equipment do you bring onto the trail for recording audio? 00:56:00 - Do you have free time? 00:59:41 - What goes into becoming a guide? 01:02:03 - What are your favorite peaks to hike? 01:04:00 - Which peaks do people put off hiking? 01:05:00 - What's the best peak for beginners? 01:06:15 - What are some underrated mountains that are not 46ers? 01:07:00 - What peak have you done the most? 01:08:00 - What's the wet season in the Adirondacks? 01:09:40 - What are the shelters like on the NPT? 01:12:20 - When should people visit the Adirondacks if they had any week of the year? 01:13:35 - When are hikers normally done with the NPT by? 01:16:00 - Discussion about bugs 01:18:06 - Do you have plans to hike in other areas? 01:21:15 - Tell us about your upcoming book 01:22:40 - Can you give us a quick campfire story? 01:26:31 - Stay Salty Question: What's your outdoors hot take? 01:28:00 - Where can people keep up with you? Segments Trek Propaganda: Want To Help AT Communities Recover From Hurricane Helene? Here's How by Kelly Floro QOTD: Which would you rather find living in your attic, 1000 roaches or a person? Triple Crown of commercials Mail Bag 5 Star Review Road Trip Update [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/ and his coffee. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

The Leifthrasir Hand of DarknessWhen Ogre Battle retreats to the shadows, who keeps the beacons lit? When Princess Crown fails to draw an audience, who picks up the bag and keeps marching? When Japan shows a lack of interest in Starcraft, who ties the series to a tower defense game and a visual novel and waves that enticingly over the crowds? Of course, we all know when to cry out to Vanllaware, and every couple of years, we know they'll send us an answer. But where did they come from? How do they keep surviving on niche titles? And most importantly, how does our intrepid panel feel about their entire ouvre? Find the answer to these questions and more with a Very Special Episode of Retro Encounter!Featuring: Wes Iliff, Gio Castillo, Ben Love, Nick Mangiaracina; Edited by Michael SollosiOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancom

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by Jen Jacobsson-Melo & Livio Melo, co-founders of Allmansright, an ultralight gear company located in the Bronx. We learn all about their humble beginnings, including when Allmansright's gear was made in the corner of their 500-square-foot apartment, how a serendipitous run in with a fellow backpacker in Colorado's backcountry led to their first pre-order, how they've scaled up their operation, what it's like running a gear shop in the Bronx, where they draw inspiration for their designs, other small cottage brands doing interesting and good work from around the world, and much more.  We wrap the show with what the contents of our body and blood would be, the triple crown of the worst places to have raging diarrhea, and some teasers from our Northville Placid Trail Hike. LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Hikerkind: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at hikerkind.com. Katabatic Gear: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at katabaticgear.com. [divider] Interview with Livio & Jen allmansright Instagram allmansright Website REI Founders Story Time stamps & Questions 00:04:55 - Reminders: Join us in Denver on December 7th! Apply to be a 2025 blogger and support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content! 00:07:55 - Introducing Jen & Livio 00:08:45 - What is allemansrätten? 00:10:50 - Tell us about moving to the US from the Dominican Republic 00:12:32 - What is the outdoor culture like in the Dominican Republic? 00:14:20 - Do you prefer being in the Dominican Republic or the US? 00:18:55 - What was the journey to you starting to make your own gear? 00:22:20 - How did you know how to make items? 00:24:00 - Tell us about your trip to Colorado 00:25:50 - How did you make gear in your 500 sq foot apartment? 00:30:30 - How do you balance gear orders with regular life? 00:31:35 - Tell us about going to design school 00:35:00 - What other gear companies serve as inspiration for you? 00:41:00 - What piece of gear are you most proud of? 00:43:40 - Do you have any plans to make a larger version of the pack? 00:45:00 - Discussion about the Krafs Stuff Sack 00:49:00 - Do you have any plans to break into the shelter space? 00:50:00 - Tell us about your shop in the Bronx 00:51:30 - Tell us about the hiker community in NYC 00:53:30 - What are some of the cool hiking opportunities near New York City? 00:57:29 - Have you experimented with apparel at all? 00:59:40 - Are there any materials you're excited about? 01:01:00 - Discussion about creating new products 01:03:52 - What is your goal around sustainability? 01:04:35 - Discussion about packs 01:06:17 - Stay Salty Question: What's your outdoors hot take? Segments Trek Propaganda: 6 Gas Station Resupply Recipes for Thru-Hikers by Kimberly Fetherston QOTD: What is your body and blood? Triple Crown of the worst places to have uncontrollable diarrhea Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, brought to you by LMNT, we are joined by Ian Mangiardi aka "Dusty". For those of you who've read Appalachian Trials, you're already familiar with Ian's name, as he served as my pre AT thru-hike guru and therapist. Ian gives us a full rundown on his triple crown treks, including being dumped on two of the three hikes, how he and Andy Laub (former guest) formed an instant bromance on the first week of the AT, the filming of As It Happens, their PCT documentary with more than a million on YouTube, and some wild excursions in Mongolia and Bhutan.  We wrap the show with whether bringing terminal food onto the plane makes you a sociopath, the triple crown of New York things, and you can now officially get your tickets for our Denver Live Podcast with Kyle Hates Hiking and Holiday Hiker Meetup Extravaganza! LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  Katabatic Gear: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at katabaticgear.com. [divider] Interview with Ian Mangiardi Ian's Website Ian's Instagram As It Happens Time stamps & Questions 00:04:45 - Reminders: Join us in Denver on December 7th! Apply to be a 2025 blogger and support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content! 00:07:10 - Introducing Ian 00:08:07 - How do Zach and Ian know each other? 00:12:13 - How did Ian and Andy meet? 00:14:12 - Tell us about your breakup 00:16:22 - What was your outdoors experience prior to the AT? 00:19:20 - How did you learn what gear you needed? 00:20:50 - Tell us about your second on-trail breakup 00:26:30 - Did you end the hike stronger than you started? 00:29:20 - Tell us about your friend fight 00:37:00 - Have you ever had a tramily other than Andy? 00:38:26 - How did you and Andy become friends? 00:40:30 - Was it an especially wet year on the AT? 00:43:45 - What fun stories do you have from the AT? 00:50:00 - Ian's surprise trail magic 00:55:00 - Tell us about going from the AT to the PCT 00:57:01 - Chaunce's As It Happens story 00:59:45 - Did you both film? 01:00:25 - How did you split up the workload? 01:02:17 - Tell us about getting caught in a snowstorm 01:04:20 - Tell us about kicking a rock off a cliff 01:06:00 - How did you decide what to cut out of the film? 01:09:14 - Did you hike the AT in spandex shorts? 01:10:45 - Do you still use a sleeping bag liner? 01:14:45 - Do you feel strongly about any other nontraditional gear items? 01:17:00 - Tell us about the New Explorers Award 01:20:45 - Tell us about the Kings Challenge in Bhutan 01:25:40 - What is the Explorers Club? 01:27:45 - What has changed in the world of thru-hiking? 01:30:26 - Where can people keep up with you? 01:32:28 - What's your best poop story? Segments Trek Propaganda: Everything You Need To Know To Plan an International Thru-Hike by Kelly Floro QOTD:  Is it messed up to bring airport terminal food onto the plane with the intent of eating it once you're in your seat? Triple Crown of New York things Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio presented by The Trek, we are joined by thru-hiker, gear maker, YouTuber, musician, and dare I say philosopher, John Z. John Z has hiked it all, including the triple crown trails, the Arizona Trail, Colorado Trail- in 10 days, setting the unsupported FKT on the way, which was a side trip during his PCT thru-hike- the Great Divide Trail, Pacific Northwest Trail, the Death Valley Loop, amongst others. He gives us an overview of these trips, the inspiration behind starting Pa'Lante Packs and now Meadow Physics Gear, why he doesn't hike with a water filter or satellite communicator, his tendency toward being a "water princess," the time he barked at a cow and the cow fought back, his run-ins with an angry black bear and a mountain lion, and much more. We wrap the show by unveiling our adult film star names, the triple crown of campaign promises 2.0, and Chuance leaves us a mailbag. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  PATH Projects: Use code “THETREK10”  for 10% off at pathprojects.com/thetrek. Katabatic Gear: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at katabaticgear.com. [divider] Interview with John Z Meadow Physics John's Youtube John's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:02:40 - Reminders: Join us for a live show in Denver on December 7! Support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content! 00:05:18 - Introducing John Z 00:06:22 - What's your background in the outdoors? 00:08:15 - If you had to pick only bikepacking or backpacking forever, which would it be? 00:09:50 - What led you to long distance backpacking? 00:11:29 - Did you start off ultralight? 00:14:15 - How did you transition from bikepacking? 00:16:04 - What was your biggest gear mistake early on? 00:18:20 - Tell us about making gear 00:21:54 - What were the vibes like in the desert on the PCT? 00:23:35 - How do you get trail beta? 00:25:07 - In what area do you think there's the most room for improvement in gear? 00:27:03 - Tell us about the shelter you designed 00:30:00 - Tell us about your recent engagement 00:34:45 - How do you juggle a relationship with hiking? 00:36:35 - What's the longest food carry you've done? 00:38:40 - Aside from light gear, what goes into long mileage days? 00:40:20 - What kind of food do you pack? 00:44:15 - Discussion about the Colorado Trail FKT 00:47:10 - What other FKTs have you attempted? 00:49:48 - Tell us the cow story 00:52:55 - Tell us the bear story 00:54:00 - Tell us the mountain lion story 00:56:40 - Tell us about your Alaska trip 00:58:50 - Why don't you like to use a water filter? 01:00:30 - Discussion about tea 01:02:10 - What's something you've gone on a deep dive on recently? 01:04:20 - What podcasts do you listen to while hiking? 01:06:04 - What don't you like about the AT? 01:08:20 - What's in your pack for a thru-hike? 01:11:35 - What do you do for bug protection? 01:14:00 - How do you pack your pack? 01:17:09 - Do you ever use a pack with a frame system? 01:17:55 - Tell us about the Death Valley Loop 01:20:20 - Are you more drawn to trails or routes? 01:21:20 - Do you think about your legacy? 01:22:17 - Is there any competition in route making? 01:23:00 - Tell us about the Great Divide Trail 01:25:00 - What trails do you keep repeating? 01:27:00 - Are you still making Youtube videos? 01:30:24 - What prompted you to take your channel down? 01:31:36 - What fabrics are you excited about right now? 01:33:55 - What's next for you? Segments Trek Propaganda 2024 Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers: Submit Your Completion Photos 272 Miles in Less Than 4 Days: William Peterson Sets New Long Trail FKT by Kimberly Fetherston QOTD:  If you were an adult film star, what would your stage name be? Triple Crown of campaign promises 2.0 Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

In today's episode of Backpacker Radio, presented by The Trek and brought to you by Topo Athletic, we are doing a thorough breakdown of the differences and similarities between the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. We are joined by Trek Bloggers, Abby Evans, aka “Shitwater Fireball: Queer of the Salamanders" and Hannah “Spring” Goodman, who are both 2024 PCT thru-hikers, and had previously thru-hiked the AT as well. We talk about the differences in overall difficulty, including weather, terrain, logistics, and gear, the difference in trail cultures, the various highs and lows, and ultimately, each person gives which of the two trails they prefer overall. The results may surprise you. We wrap the show with some news of a positive update on the new Lyme disease vaccine, who we would trade bodies with and what we would do first, the triple crown of streaming services, and a reader prompts Chaunce into giving us a more detailed breakdown about the time she pooped into a mountain house bag in her tent. Topo Athletic: Use code “THETREK15” for 15% of topoathletic.com. Gossamer Gear: Use code “SNUGGLEBUG” for 20% off shelters at gossamergear.com.  LMNT: Get a free sample pack with any order at drinklmnt.com/trek. Katabatic Gear: Use code “BPR15” for 15% off at katabaticgear.com. Duer: Get 15% off at shopduer.com/backpacker. [divider] Panel with Abby Evans aka “Shitwater Fireball” and Hannah “Spring” Goodman Spring's Instagram Shitwater's Instagram Time stamps & Questions 00:05:30 - Reminders: Come to our Brooklyn meetup TODAY (September 16)! And support us on Patreon for exclusive bonus content and get your tickets for our live Denver show on December 7! 00:07:50 - Introducing Shitwater & Spring 00:09:03 - Spring, how did you get into the outdoors? 00:10:20 - Shitwater, how did you get into the outdoors? 00:12:57 - What are your trail name origin stories? 00:16:00 - What backpacking trips did you do before the AT? 00:17:08 - How has your PCT experience been? 00:18:27 - Zach & Chaunce's AT/PCT experience 00:19:10 - AT vs. PCT: Overall difficulty 00:25:00 - Discussion about fire logistics and impacts 00:28:16 - Zach & Chaunce's difficulty comparison between the trails 00:32:30 - Discussion about hike mindset between the AT and PCT 00:47:22 - What was the hardest part of skipping miles on the PCT? 01:01:00 - AT vs. PCT: Social experience 01:11:35 - Do you think being on trail was a good place to process the breakup? 01:18:00 - Chaunce's trail social experiences 01:33:25 - AT vs. PCT: Gear differences 01:50:20 - How much rain did you experience on the PCT? 01:54:40 - AT vs. PCT: Highs and lows 02:14:20 - If you could only pick on trail for the rest of your life, which would you pick? 02:17:30 - Where can we keep up with you? Segments Rapid Fire Interviews James “Almost Famous” Townsend Rachael “Pack Rat” Davis Katherine “Willy” Baals Sean Durkin aka TreeBeard Trek Propaganda: Lyme Disease Vaccine Passes Stage Three Trials by Kimberly Featherston QOTD: If you could trade bodies with someone for a day who would be and what would you do first? Triple Crown of streaming services Mail Bag 5 Star Review [divider] Check out our sound guy @my_boy_pauly/. Leave us a voicemail! Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes (and please leave us a review)!  Find us on Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Play. Support us on Patreon to get bonus content. Advertise on Backpacker Radio Follow The Trek, Chaunce, Badger, and Trail Correspondents on Instagram. Follow Backpacker Radio, The Trek and Chaunce on YouTube. Follow Backpacker Radio on Tik Tok.  Our theme song is Walking Slow by Animal Years. A super big thank you to our Chuck Norris Award winner(s) from Patreon: Alex and Misty with NavigatorsCrafting, Andrew, Austen McDaniel, Ben Love, Brad & Blair Thirteen Adventures, Brent Stenberg, Bryan Alsop, Christopher Marshburn, Coach from Marion Outdoors, Dayne, Derek Koch, Eric Casper, Erik Hofmann, Gillian Daniels, Greg Knight, Greg McDaniel may he bring honor to his name, Griffin Haywood, Hailey Buckingham, Liz Seger, Patrick Cianciolo, Rebecca Brave, Sawyer Products, SPAM, Timothy Hahn, Tracy ‘Trigger' Fawns A big thank you to our Cinnamon Connection Champions from Patreon: Bonnie Ackerman, David, Dcnerdlet, Emily Galusha, Jeanie, Jeanne Latshaw, Joann Menzer, Katharine Rudzitis, Lauren Cain, Luke Netjes, Merle Watkins, Peter, and Ruth S.

On this episode of Random Encounter, we're chatting about heisting steam-powered robots and the foggiest post-apocalyptic city you've ever seen. First up, Ben embraces his inner robot pirate with the sequel to 2015's TRPG, Steamworld Heist, Steamworld Heist II. The latest entry in the multi-genre Steamworld series, Heist II delivers a side-scrolling, turn-based spin on XCOM-style gameplay with a healthy dose of adorable steam-powered robots. Does it live up to the first game and the rest of the series?  Then, did the hit Amazon series leave you craving a new Fallout game? Well, as usual, the modders are doing what Bethesdon't with the astonishing full Fallout 4 conversion mod, Fallout London. This mod completely recreates London, England and its boroughs, giving the famous city a post-nuclear apocalypse vibe. Yes, it was made by fans, but can it deliver a New Vegas-style experience to Fallout 4?Featuring: Jono Logan and Ben Love; Edited by Jono LoganGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: podcast@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomThis Episode's Related Links:Steamworld Heist II ReviewSteamworld Quest: Hand of Gilgamech ReviewFallout 4 ReviewFallout 76 ReviewFallout Season One Review

What is bravery without a dash of recklessness? Five Retro Encounter panelists recently finished the first Dark Souls, and it's every bit as impressive, intense, and moving today as it was in 2011. Today the panel talks about the game's undercooked second-half environments, the fully-realized DLC episode, and the emotional turmoil upon discovering why certain bosses were present in their current forms. Dark Souls 1 isn't punishing or unfair, just be patient! Featuring: Michael Sollosi, Gio Castillo, Aleks Franiczek, Dom Kim, Ben Love; Edited by Paul DennisOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomDark Souls on RPGFan

Ben and JLO are sending each other lover letters and trying to see if they can stay together. Hawk Twah girl has been everywhere and agency and it seems like her 15min is almost over.Make sure to also keep up to date with ALL our podcasts we do below that have new episodes every week:The Thought ShowerLet's Get WeirdCrisis on Infinite Podcasts

Let's praise the sun! Doo-doo-doo-dooThe Dark Souls of RPGFan podcasts has finally arrived! Dark Souls is one of the most celebrated RPGs of the 2010s, helping to establish an entire new genre of RPG. Today, one Dark Souls newcomer and four Souls-like veterans discuss this challenging, carefully-crafted RPG, from its interconnected setting to the intense boss fights of Dark Souls's first half. Featuring: Michael Sollosi, Gio Castillo, Aleks Franiczek, Dom Kim, Ben Love; Edited by Paul DennisOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomThreads: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomDark Souls on RPGFan

Deep fried Retro!This week we get the panelists back together to chat about the second half of Grandia II. Listen in while we talk about late game changes in tone, how well the pacing holds up, and if Ryudo is still endlessly hilarious.Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Ben Love, Claton Stevenson; Edited by Zach WilkersonOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomGrandia II on RPGFan

Inside every cynic, there is a disappointed idealist. Grandia II felt like an RPG ahead of its time in 2000, with sophisticated active-time battles, smart underlying systems, and clever writing anchored by Ryudo, Grandia II's sarcastic protagonist. Today's episode of Retro Encounter discusses the characters, mechanics, and first-half story of Grandia II, especially how its modern touches and angst contrast against the earnest optimism of the first Grandia. Featuring: Zach Wilkerson, Ben Love, Claton Stevenson; Edited by Michael SollosiOpening and ending music by Miles MorkriGet in Touch:RPGFan.comRPGFan ShopEmail us: retro@rpgfan.comTwitter: @rpgfancomInstagram: @rpgfancomFacebook: rpgfancomTwitch: rpgfancomGrandia II on RPGFan