Podcasts about French Legion

Elena Poniatowska, Mexico's most celebrated journalist and one of the most significant literary voices in the Spanish-speaking world, argues in this conversation that the crisis of contemporary journalism is inseparable from the collapse of critical reading—and that both are symptoms of a deeper cultural abandonment. Born in Paris in 1932 to a French-Polish father and Mexican mother, Poniatowska contends that her formation as a writer was shaped by displacement, by learning to listen to those rendered voiceless by history, and by understanding that journalism must be an act of solidarity before it is anything else. Widely credited with helping to establish the genre of testimonio in Latin American letters, she transformed the voices of the marginalised into literature that forced an entire nation to confront its own silence. She maintains that her landmark work La Noche de Tlatelolco was not a journalistic achievement but a moral obligation, and reflects on her decision to refuse the Xavier Villaurrutia Prize, asking who would award the dead. Poniatowska insists that the greatest threat to literature and journalism today is not artificial intelligence but the disappearance of patience—the willingness to sit with a text, a story, or a life long enough for meaning to emerge. At 94, she affirms her belief in the innate goodness of human beings as not a sentiment but a necessity.Elena Poniatowska, la periodista más célebre de México y una de las voces literarias más significativas del mundo hispanohablante, sostiene en esta conversación que la crisis del periodismo contemporáneo es inseparable del colapso de la lectura crítica—y que ambos son síntomas de un abandono cultural más profundo. Nacida en París en 1932 de padre franco-polaco y madre mexicana, Poniatowska afirma que su formación como escritora estuvo marcada por el desplazamiento, por aprender a escuchar a quienes la historia había silenciado, y por comprender que el periodismo debe ser ante todo un acto de solidaridad. Ampliamente reconocida por haber contribuido a establecer el género del testimonio en las letras latinoamericanas, transformó las voces de los marginados en literatura que obligó a una nación entera a confrontar su propio silencio. Sostiene que su obra emblemática La Noche de Tlatelolco no fue un logro periodístico sino una obligación moral, y reflexiona sobre su decisión de rechazar el Premio Xavier Villaurrutia, preguntando quién iba a premiar a los muertos. Poniatowska insiste en que la mayor amenaza para la literatura y el periodismo hoy no es la inteligencia artificial sino la desaparición de la paciencia—la disposición a permanecer con un texto, una historia o una vida el tiempo suficiente para que emerja el significado. A los 94 años, reafirma su creencia en la bondad innata de los seres humanos no como un sentimiento sino como una necesidad.English transcript:SAVAGE MINDS — Elena PoniatowskaJulian Vigo (00:00:15):Welcome to Savage Minds.Julian Vigo (00:00:26):I am your host, Julian Vigo.Julian Vigo (00:00:30):Today's guest is Elena Poniatowska Amor,Julian Vigo (00:00:33):daughter of a French father of Polish origin, Jean E.Julian Vigo (00:00:37):Poniatowski, and Mexican mother Paula Amor.Julian Vigo (00:00:41):She was born in Paris in 1932.Julian Vigo (00:00:46):She has practiced journalism since 1953 at the newspapers El Día, Excélsior, Novedades, and La Jornada.Julian Vigo (00:00:57):She is the first woman to receive the National Journalism Prize.Julian Vigo (00:01:02):Among her works is La Noche de Tlatelolco,Julian Vigo (00:01:05):a classic since its publication, for which she was awarded the Xavier Villaurrutia Prize,Julian Vigo (00:01:12):which she refused, asking who was going to award the dead.Julian Vigo (00:01:17):Her novels and stories include La Flor de Lis,Julian Vigo (00:01:20):De Noche Vienes and Tlapalería,Julian Vigo (00:01:24):Paseo de la Reforma,Julian Vigo (00:01:26):Hasta No Verte Jesús Mío,Julian Vigo (00:01:28):The Life of a Mexican Soldadera,Julian Vigo (00:01:31):Querido Diego Te Abraza Quiela, Tinísima, winner of the Mazatlán Prize in 1992, La Piel del Cielo,Julian Vigo (00:01:40):winner of the Alfaguara Novel Prize in 2001, and El Tren Pasa Primero,Julian Vigo (00:01:48):about the lives of Mexican railway workers,Julian Vigo (00:01:52):winner of the Rómulo Gallegos International Novel Prize in 2007. Leonora won the Premio Biblioteca Breve Seix Barral in 2011. El Universo o Nada (2013) is the biography ofJulian Vigo (00:02:07):astrophysicist Guillermo Haro. Ondas de la Niña Mala is her first poetry collection, andJulian Vigo (00:02:14):her children's books include Boda en Chimalistac, La Vendedora de Nubes,Julian Vigo (00:02:20):El Burro que Metió la Pata, Sansimonsi, illustrated by Rafael Barajas el Fisgón, and ElJulian Vigo (00:02:27):Niño Estrellero by Fernando Robles, and El Charito Cantor by Osvaldo Hernández.Julian Vigo (00:02:34):Her most recent novel, El Amante Polaco, portrays the last king of Poland, Stanisław AugustJulian Vigo (00:02:41):Poniatowski. Translated into 20 languages. Gabi Brimmer and Las Mil y Una, the story ofJulian Vigo (00:02:48):Paulina,Julian Vigo (00:02:49):address social issues.Julian Vigo (00:02:52):After receiving honorary doctorates from UNAM and UAM,Julian Vigo (00:02:57):she was awarded them from the University of Puebla,Julian Vigo (00:03:01):Sonora, Estado de México,Julian Vigo (00:03:04):Guerrero,Julian Vigo (00:03:06):Chiapas, and Puerto Rico.Julian Vigo (00:03:09):She also received honorary degrees from the New School for Social Research in New York,Julian Vigo (00:03:13):Manhattanville College, and Florida Atlantic University in the United States, and fromJulian Vigo (00:03:19):Paris 8,Julian Vigo (00:03:19):La Sorbonne, and Pau-Pyrénées, as well as the Maria Moors Cabot Prize for Journalism atJulian Vigo (00:03:27):Columbia University, New York, in 2004, and from the Universidad Complutense, Madrid, inJulian Vigo (00:03:32):2015.Julian Vigo (00:03:34):She received the French Legion of Honour at the rank of Officer, the Gabriela Mistral Prize from Chile, and inJulian Vigo (00:03:41):2006, the Courage Award from the International Women's Media Foundation.Julian Vigo (00:03:43):In 2013 she was awardedJulian Vigo (00:03:49):the Miguel de Cervantes Prize for literature in the Spanish language, and she received theJulian Vigo (00:03:55):Belisario Domínguez Medal in 2022.Julian Vigo (00:03:58):This is the highest honour granted by the Senate of the Mexican Republic, along with theJulian Vigo (00:04:05):Carlos Fuentes International Prize for Literary Creation in the Spanish Language in 2023.(00:04:12):I welcome Elena Poniatowska to Savage Minds.Julian Vigo (00:04:19):I wanted to begin with a memory I have of you.Julian Vigo (00:04:22):In 1993,Julian Vigo (00:04:25):I think,Julian Vigo (00:04:27):or 94 —Julian Vigo (00:04:28):one of those two years —Julian Vigo (00:04:29):I was in Puebla,Julian Vigo (00:04:31):Cholula,Julian Vigo (00:04:32):teaching at the Universidad de las Américas.Julian Vigo (00:04:35):Yes.Julian Vigo (00:04:36):And you came to give a talk at an observatory — I believe it was Tonantzintla.Elena Poniatowska (00:04:44):Yes, of course.Elena Poniatowska (00:04:46):Yes, I remember it, andJulian Vigo (00:04:49):you made a great impression on me that day. But I must confess that your entire life's work made a great impression on me — not only on me. I wanted to begin with your formation, your life, because you were born in France andJulian Vigo (00:05:12):how do you remember your childhood in France, and what elements of that world did you bring with you when you arrived in Mexico in 1942?Elena Poniatowska (00:05:21):Well, thank you very much for your interest.Elena Poniatowska (00:05:29):I can tell you that I was born in 1932 in Paris, France, because my mother Paula Amor marriedElena Poniatowska (00:05:42):Juan Poniatowski, who held a noble title — that of prince —Elena Poniatowska (00:05:54):because the last king of Poland was Stanisław Poniatowski, who was, I believe, one ofElena Poniatowska (00:06:07):the lovers —Elena Poniatowska (00:06:09):one of the younger lovers of the Empress of Russia, Catherine the Great.Elena Poniatowska (00:06:21):My mother was a woman born also in Paris, of Mexican origin, who leftElena Poniatowska (00:06:32):France because of the Mexican RevolutionElena Poniatowska (00:06:36):and went to live with her parents — Pablo Amor and Elena Iturbe de Amor — inElena Poniatowska (00:06:49):Biarritz, and they later moved to Paris. My mother always spoke Spanish with a French accent. She had two sisters who also lived in France for a long time,Elena Poniatowska (00:07:07):and they were rather Frenchified. She met my father Jean Poniatowski in Paris andElena Poniatowska (00:07:20):married him, and I was born in 1932 in Paris.Elena Poniatowska (00:07:25):I would like to knowJulian Vigo (00:07:31):more about this experience, because as you probably know — especially Americans and Canadians — they think everyone wants to come to their countries. But something they don't know until they travel is that in Mexico, Honduras, and all of Latin America there is a great deal of immigration, people from every country in the world. Why not?Elena Poniatowska (00:08:01):Her mother was in France; my mother was Mexican, born in France. Her family — she had a grandmother, my mother's great-grandmother, who was Russian, and in general her father was educated in England, so they wereElena Poniatowska (00:08:29):Mexicans — Amor is a Mexican surname — but they were very closely tied to Europe. For my mother, living in Europe was very natural becauseElena Poniatowska (00:08:49):she first attended a boarding school in Switzerland, in Lausanne,Elena Poniatowska (00:08:56):and then was in Paris. At a Rothschild ball she met my father JuanElena Poniatowska (00:09:07):Poniatowski and married him in 1931,Elena Poniatowska (00:09:17):or perhaps at the beginning of 1932, because I was born on the 19th of May 1932.Elena Poniatowska (00:09:29):My sister was born in 1933.Julian Vigo (00:09:34):As a child who spoke French and had to learn Spanish, in what way did language become your first tool for survival?Elena Poniatowska (00:09:47):Well, I also know English and French. Language, for me — learning Spanish in Mexico — was obviously about communicating with people in the streetElena Poniatowska (00:09:56):and with friends at school. But French remained my mother tongue, andElena Poniatowska (00:10:03):later I dedicated myself to speaking Spanish with the people at home, with the MexicansElena Poniatowska (00:10:14):I met at school.Elena Poniatowska (00:10:23):Curiously, I attended an English school called the Windsor School, but I learned SpanishJulian Vigo (00:10:38):in the street — one always learns Spanish better in the street. You learn so much from people in Mexico. I found people very warm and open. On the other hand, for Mexicans in my country, it's not the same at all.Julian Vigo (00:10:59):What was the first moment you felt that writing was the only possible way to understand the Mexico around you?Elena Poniatowska (00:11:11):Well, I would never say it was the only possible way.Elena Poniatowska (00:11:17):I think that at twenty,Elena Poniatowska (00:11:22):twenty-one years old, returning from studying at a convent of nuns, I had theElena Poniatowska (00:11:30):good fortune to be able to start writing at a newspaper called, at that time,Elena Poniatowska (00:11:42):Excelsior.Elena Poniatowska (00:11:43):They asked me to submit a daily article,Elena Poniatowska (00:11:48):an interview,Elena Poniatowska (00:11:51):a chronicle, and I did so with enormous enthusiasm and great pleasure, because it allowed meElena Poniatowska (00:12:00):to know Mexico much better, and also to meet great figures of Mexico such asElena Poniatowska (00:12:09):Diego Rivera,Elena Poniatowska (00:12:11):José Clemente Orozco, actresses like Dolores del Río and María Félix, architects likeElena Poniatowska (00:12:20):Luis Barragán, and writers — even writers of my own generation, or slightlyElena Poniatowska (00:12:31):older than me — such as Juan Rulfo,Elena Poniatowska (00:12:38):Rosario Castellanos, Carlos Fuentes, and of course Octavio Paz.Julian Vigo (00:12:46):What a rich life! María Félix — what a figure!Julian Vigo (00:12:52):How was your experience beginning in journalism in the early 1950s in a predominantly male environment?Elena Poniatowska (00:13:05):Well, I was truly very lucky, because people were very kind andElena Poniatowska (00:13:14):even affectionate towards me. No one ever refused me an interview. I was able to reach Alfonso Reyes, Octavio Paz,Elena Poniatowska (00:13:25):the great architect Luis Barragán, José Vasconcelos the philosopher, and all were veryElena Poniatowska (00:13:40):kind and cordial with me, as were important actors like Ignacio LópezElena Poniatowska (00:13:51):Tarso,Elena Poniatowska (00:13:52):and of course those I already mentioned — Dolores del Río, María Félix — and singers, and also many visitors who came from Europe, the United States, or Latin America to perform in Mexico.Elena Poniatowska (00:14:20):Did you know El Indio Fernández?Elena Poniatowska (00:14:23):Yes,Elena Poniatowska (00:14:24):of course —Elena Poniatowska (00:14:25):I interviewed him,Elena Poniatowska (00:14:26):I knew El Indio Fernández, who by ten in the morning was already offering me a tequila, whichElena Poniatowska (00:14:35):I did not drink, as I'm not accustomed to drinking. And also many otherElena Poniatowska (00:14:47):famous actors of that era, like the comedian Cantinflas, whoseJulian Vigo (00:14:56):real name was Mario Moreno. Cantinflas — I know his work. Wow. And you were in Mexico during the same period as Luis Buñuel?Elena Poniatowska (00:15:06):Yes, I ended up with Luis Buñuel — yes, we had a great friendshipElena Poniatowska (00:15:15):because out of affection he came to have lunch at my house several times, so I saw him on manyElena Poniatowska (00:15:24):occasions. We even went together to the prison of Lecumberri to visit, for example, aElena Poniatowska (00:15:33):Colombian who had committed an offence and was imprisoned — his name wasElena Poniatowska (00:15:42):Álvaro Mutis.Julian Vigo (00:15:45):And you have lived through and narrated great social transformations.Julian Vigo (00:15:51):Do you think that today's digital democratisation of public opinion helps social justice, or does it rather dilute real struggles into mere narratives of identity and likes?Elena Poniatowska (00:16:08):Well, I think the Mexican Revolution,Elena Poniatowska (00:16:15):led by a man like Emiliano Zapata, was extraordinary in redistributing the lands and haciendas of Mexico and in giving all MexicansElena Poniatowska (00:16:32):access to better education, better formation, a better life. I consider thatElena Poniatowska (00:16:46):Emiliano Zapata was one of the great heroes of Mexico, even though he personally took away the haciendas of my grandparents, the Amors and the Iturbes.Julian Vigo (00:17:06):What did you learn from the great intellectuals of your youth?Julian Vigo (00:17:08):You mentioned Juan Rulfo, Alfonso Reyes, and many others.Julian Vigo (00:17:15):What influenced your decision to dedicate your life to letters?Elena Poniatowska (00:17:20):No, they did not influence my decision to dedicate myself to letters.Elena Poniatowska (00:17:26):I met them later.Elena Poniatowska (00:17:30):I began as a journalist, a modest journalist, at the newspaper Excelsior in 1953 —Elena Poniatowska (00:17:42):I think 1952 or 1953. Very young. I had come from an education at a convent of nuns inElena Poniatowska (00:17:53):Philadelphia, and I decidedElena Poniatowska (00:17:57):to write chronicles and interviews to get to know Mexico better. I came to know those figures through my work as a journalist, and because I could question themElena Poniatowska (00:18:14):in the language I knew and had learned as a child — at ten years old — which is Spanish. My other languages until then had beenElena Poniatowska (00:18:22):English,Elena Poniatowska (00:18:27):and French, which is my mother tongue.Julian Vigo (00:18:32):You are known for the testimonio.Julian Vigo (00:18:36):At what exact point did you feel that traditional fiction was not sufficient to capture Mexican reality?Elena Poniatowska (00:18:47):As I mentioned, I began by engaging with many valuable MexicansElena Poniatowska (00:18:54):who received me in their homes, gave me their opinions. At the same time as I received what they wished to give me,Elena Poniatowska (00:19:04):I observed how their homes were, how they treated the people around them — their wives, their children, their servants — and all of that helped meElena Poniatowska (00:19:22):to know Mexico better. I also spent a great deal of time in the streets — that is, with the poorest people, whom I was able to reachElena Poniatowska (00:19:34):through my own nature and also with the help of a great Mexican illustrator, Alberto Beltrán. In the street he made sketches of everything the Mexicans did — the newspaper vendors,Elena Poniatowska (00:19:59):the taco sellers,Elena Poniatowska (00:20:03):the women making corn tortillas by hand,Elena Poniatowska (00:20:12):the bakeries, and then the hardware stores where everything was sold — from nails toElena Poniatowska (00:20:22):cleaning cloths — and all of that was a very vital andElena Poniatowska (00:20:32):generous apprenticeship in learning to see the lives of working Mexicans.Julian Vigo (00:20:40):But it is an art — to be able to listen to people, to their voices.Julian Vigo (00:20:53):How did you learn to listen to the voice of the other?Elena Poniatowska (00:20:58):Well, I think it is a natural inclination.Elena Poniatowska (00:21:03):It is not learned.Elena Poniatowska (00:21:05):It is not forced.Elena Poniatowska (00:21:06):It is a way of being.Elena Poniatowska (00:21:10):I am far more interestedElena Poniatowska (00:21:11):in speaking of what others do, how they do it, and who they are, than in speaking of myself, my sensations, my emotions. And I have done this from a very young age, so it has become a habit — it is part of my daily life.Julian Vigo (00:21:36):Do you believe that the testimonio is essentially an act of political resistance?Elena Poniatowska (00:21:44):I think so.Elena Poniatowska (00:21:45):It helps enormously to know the thinking of those who have no power, who are not in power, who do not consider themselves political, who are not leaders — although I did have the great privilege of interviewing leaders and very important figures in Mexico,Elena Poniatowska (00:22:14):such as, for example, the Spanish refugee of the Civil War, Luis Buñuel.Julian Vigo (00:22:26):And how was the process of gathering the voice of Jesusa Palancares?Julian Vigo (00:22:32):How long did it take you to absorb her story?Elena Poniatowska (00:22:38):Well, it was a privilege. I heard her — she was doing laundry in a popular building, a building where many Mexicans lived who had noElena Poniatowska (00:22:56):economic resources. Everything she said caught my attention enormously. I approached her and asked if I could visit her at her home,Elena Poniatowska (00:23:13):which was a very poor house, obviously far from the area where I lived. And so I went toElena Poniatowska (00:23:26):see her once a week. We became friends, and she began telling me her life. And that is howElena Poniatowska (00:23:36):the novel Hasta No Verte Jesús Mío came about. When it was published,Elena Poniatowska (00:23:43):she asked me to give her ten copies to give to her friends —Elena Poniatowska (00:23:52):the bricklayers or the people she had worked with.Julian Vigo (00:24:00):And why did she choose the testimonial genre for Hasta No Verte Jesús Mío?Julian Vigo (00:24:09):It is one of the testimonial novels because —Elena Poniatowska (00:24:16):She didn't really choose it — she didn't. It was I who gathered her words andElena Poniatowska (00:24:27):assembled them in the best way I could. But she did not choose it.Elena Poniatowska (00:24:34):She could not read or write. She did not know how to read or write. But she asked for the books, and I — the cover of the book, what goes on the outside, is the Santo Niño de Atocha, a small Christ child that she liked.Julian Vigo (00:25:08):And I saw it in the street, and so I put it there so she would be happy. But I was asking you about the testimonial genre — in 1969 it was not a common thing in literature.Julian Vigo (00:25:26):How was this novel received?Julian Vigo (00:25:30):I wonder if people were confused.Julian Vigo (00:25:32):Is it a true story or is it fiction?Elena Poniatowska (00:25:35):No, it was very well received. The book was greatly liked.Elena Poniatowska (00:25:41):Immediately many editions came out and it was translated into English and French.Julian Vigo (00:25:51):And I wonder if at that time — less so today — people were confused because they did not know if it was a completely real story or partly real. Because the novel Hasta No Verte Jesús Mío was categorised as a novel.Elena Poniatowska (00:26:16):Yes, that's right, that is what it was.Elena Poniatowska (00:26:19):It is a novel based on a character — a woman who was in the Mexican Revolution, the life of a soldadera. To what extent is Jesusa an invented character or a real woman? I have said it, I have written it many times: Jesusa is a real character. After that I wroteElena Poniatowska (00:26:49):other books about other women who were also real characters. I had the joy of knowing Jesusa in person, but for example Tina Modotti, the main character ofElena Poniatowska (00:27:08):the novel Tinísima, I did not know. And other novels about other women and other characters I also did not know.Julian Vigo (00:27:22):What lessons about the resilience of Mexican women did you learn from Jesusa that remain relevant today?Elena Poniatowska (00:27:31):All the women in Mexico whom I see and engage with and encounter in the streetElena Poniatowska (00:27:41):and who come to my house — they are women who have known how to struggle and continue to struggle. For example, one woman, Rosario Ibarra de Piedra, whose son was disappeared, and who searched all of Mexico — she is obviously one of the heroines who has most caught my attention.Julian Vigo (00:28:10):And especially in recent years — almost thirty years — the femicides and the disappearances of men and women. You are still fighting for your society, and I think literary words have the power to carry reality forward. I am thinking of La Noche de Tlatelolco — that was the first book of yours I read. It is incredible. I have no words. Thank you. It is one of the best books of the twentieth century, and I teach it. It is astonishing. Can you speak about why you began that work, and also for those listening now who do not know the history of what happened in Mexico?Elena Poniatowska (00:29:03):Well, in general I can tell you that I received letters from a prisoner in the jail — Jesús Sánchez García — and I began going to Lecumberri, which was called the Black Palace of Lecumberri. It was no palace — it was a prison with bars and cells. I asked permission from the prison director — I believe his name was Martín del Campo — and he gave it to me. That is how I went to gather life stories from men, and later, at the women's prison, from women who had nothing to do with my own life, who bore no resemblance to what I hadElena Poniatowska (00:30:03):lived or what I would go on to live.Elena Poniatowska (00:30:16):That was an enormous enrichment for me, and a knowledge of an unknown Mexico that also helped me understand MexicoElena Poniatowska (00:30:31):— a Mexico to which I owe a great deal.Elena Poniatowska (00:30:35):I think that everything I am I owe to the voice, and to the gift of their voice, that the poorest Mexicans gave me — those I was able to approach over years and years,Elena Poniatowska (00:30:52):going to the prison and sometimes going to their own very poor homes, called vecindades, which were located in the very neighbourhoods where the prisons were.Julian Vigo (00:31:11):How did you manage the pain and trauma of the testimonies you heard while assembling the book?Elena Poniatowska (00:31:22):Pain is not managed. To manage something is to seek something. Pain is simply assumed and lived. So the pain is in the words written in the book.Julian Vigo (00:31:46):And why did you choose the technique of a collage of voices rather than a linear, chronological narrative for this book?Elena Poniatowska (00:31:57):I have many other books that speak even of personal stories — books that contain much of biography.Julian Vigo (00:32:13):Yes, but it is very interesting how you wove those narratives together in this book. It is very beautiful, in fact.Julian Vigo (00:32:24):Was there any moment during the writing of La Noche de Tlatelolco when you felt fear or censorship?Elena Poniatowska (00:32:33):Well, there was always the dread of entering terrain unknown to me.Elena Poniatowska (00:32:40):Ultimately, I was educated —Elena Poniatowska (00:32:45):I spent time in the United States at a convent to be educated, not to become a nun — it was called the Sacred Heart Convent.Elena Poniatowska (00:33:03):When I came out I was speaking English. My mother tongue is French. And when I left there, my strongest desire was truly to know Mexico — the country I had arrived in at the age of ten, but in which I had received an educationElena Poniatowska (00:33:30):in both English and French, not in Spanish.Julian Vigo (00:33:36):More than fifty years later, what impact do you think that book has on the collective memory of young Mexicans today?Elena Poniatowska (00:33:48):Well, I think that is a question that should be put to them.Elena Poniatowska (00:33:55):What I can say is that I have receivedElena Poniatowska (00:33:59):a great deal of affection from young people — many come to find me at my home, and I give lectures and talks with some frequency. Remember that I am already 94 years old and have lost the use of my left eye, which prevents me from seeing well. So within my limitations,Elena Poniatowska (00:34:27):I remain in contact with the people who want to see me, which for me produces great enthusiasm and which I experience as great support.Julian Vigo (00:34:42):The book you wrote is something very specific — evidently about Mexico — but it is still a book with which everyone can identify. If we look around today, where there are acts of political repression in almost every country in the world in one form or another — and I know your books are translated into many languages — I wonder whether the power of La Noche de Tlatelolco came from the form of the narration itself, not only from the fact that you confronted the government, the police, and justice. You narrated a story of the people seeking justice, yes, but literature itself was also seeking truth within its pages. There are wars everywhere, there is too much sadness. After the lockdown — which was less bad in Mexico than here in Italy — we are living through a very difficult moment. Do you sometimes think of this book as a model for dialogue, for collaboration, for moving forward together, the people united?Elena Poniatowska (00:36:09):Well, what I love about this book is that it has so many voices — many voices gathered from mothers of families, from children of political prisoners. For me it was a great learning experience to go to the prison in Mexico and see a world I did not know, to be accepted in that world, to go frequently to hear and gather the voices of political prisoners and of young people whoElena Poniatowska (00:36:52):didn't even have strong political ideas but were imprisoned because they had stolen something in a market. It meant entering a world I was completely unfamiliar with,Elena Poniatowska (00:37:13):to which I did not belong. And it was an enormous lesson — a very generous lesson — in how the lives of others can be. That is what I have dedicated myself to over many years, because I remain a journalist and continue writing about disasters such asElena Poniatowska (00:37:39):not only the massacre of the 2nd of October, but what the earthquake of 1985 meant for Mexico and the loss, for many Mexicans, of their families and their homes.Julian Vigo (00:37:59):Yes. You documented the earthquake of ‘85 — a moment when the Mexican government was completely paralysed and it was civil society that took control to rescue the city.Julian Vigo (00:38:15):Do you believe that peoples are still alone in the face of tragedy, or is that organic solidarity you described an invincible force?Elena Poniatowska (00:38:29):Yes,Elena Poniatowska (00:38:29):of course.Elena Poniatowska (00:38:30):I believe — that is why I believe in the invincible force of Mexicans, who help and support each other, who run to answer a cry for help. They are the ones who save themselves by saving others. I believe in that truth. It is a truth I lived, that I witnessed,Elena Poniatowska (00:38:57):and for me it is a lesson, a way of life.Julian Vigo (00:39:03):Does it reflect the structural abandonment of the seamstresses, the inhabitants, those who live in vecindades, and the poorest?Julian Vigo (00:39:13):How did you manage, in the midst of the chaos, the dust, and the mourning of those days, to earn the trust of people so that they would share their most painful and raw testimonies?Elena Poniatowska (00:39:30):Well, I have two physical advantages.Elena Poniatowska (00:39:32):I am small in stature. I frighten no one. No one is afraid of me. I can go anywhere. I am not someone who imposes anything at all, and I know how to listen. So by listening to others' voices, I gather them, I keep them, I memorise them,Elena Poniatowska (00:40:03):and then I put them on paper.Elena Poniatowska (00:40:06):That is the most solitary and difficult moment — writing about what happens to others,Elena Poniatowska (00:40:21):their sorrows,Elena Poniatowska (00:40:22):their joys,Elena Poniatowska (00:40:24):their defeats and also their triumphs —Elena Poniatowska (00:40:28):and making books and articles from them. Because I am also a journalist sinceElena Poniatowska (00:40:38):1953. I am now 94 years old.Julian Vigo (00:40:47):You're listening to Savage Minds.Julian Vigo (00:40:49):If you're enjoying the show, take a second to subscribe at savageminds.co.Julian Vigo (00:40:54):Feel free to comment below or drop us a line to share your thoughts.Julian Vigo (00:40:59):Support independent media today.Julian Vigo (00:41:01):Now, let's get back to it.Julian Vigo (00:41:15):Many consider that the earthquake of ‘85 not only brought down buildings but also toppled the myth of the Mexican State's absolute control — marking the true birth of modern citizenship in the country.Julian Vigo (00:41:33):From your perspective as a chronicler —Elena Poniatowska (00:41:40):I think Mexicans have always had enormous character and enormous capacity to defend themselvesElena Poniatowska (00:41:49):in spite of their own poverty, or in spite of the total absence of outside help.Elena Poniatowska (00:42:02):There was in Mexico a Mexican Revolution,Elena Poniatowska (00:42:08):a country conquered by very cruel conquerors, and yet the country has continued to forge ahead and has continued to demonstrate its bravery and courage in allElena Poniatowska (00:42:28):circumstances — one of which was, for example, the earthquake, in which the neighbours themselvesElena Poniatowska (00:42:37):helped each other before the State or the so-called government did anything.Elena Poniatowska (00:42:46):So I think it is a country with many very brave men, women, and children who save themselves, who know how to look after themselves.Elena Poniatowska (00:43:03):Of course there are people who don't know how to do it, and there are people who sometimes end upElena Poniatowska (00:43:12):in prison or in hospital. But in general Mexico is a country of very solidary people, people who help each other and defend themselves.Julian Vigo (00:43:31):What I love about your books in general is that you give voice — you shed light on the lives that are forgotten.Julian Vigo (00:43:42):Do you feel that in this book, for example, or in Nadie Me Verá Llorar, the author's voice becomes more present or closer to her characters than in your earlier works?Elena Poniatowska (00:43:56):No,Elena Poniatowska (00:43:57):I think that element is present in all my works — in Hasta No Verte Jesús Mío, in the book about the 2nd of October, in the earthquake — and it is always present in everything I still do at the newspaper where I work. I am in a certain way a chronicler and aElena Poniatowska (00:44:21):participant in the lives of other Mexicans.Julian Vigo (00:44:27):And I also notice that many of your works are about women — Tinísima, the life of Tina Modotti, a woman who lived so many lives in one. Leonora. And I wanted to ask — before we get to those books — about Querido Diego Te Abraza Quiela. Why did you choose that subject? Not only Diego Rivera but his first wife.Elena Poniatowska (00:44:59):I was moved to learn that in Paris, Angelina Beloff had gone to Mexico to seeElena Poniatowska (00:45:12):Diego Rivera, whom she had supported in Paris. He had lived with her and had livedElena Poniatowska (00:45:22):off her, because she was the one with a salary. He was a very young painter withoutElena Poniatowska (00:45:33):money, without resources. She helped him. And when she went to Mexico, she had also hadElena Poniatowska (00:45:42):the only male child that Diego Rivera ever had, who died of cold in Paris. And when she decided to go to Mexico — in a sense, to get to know the country of her lover — she decided to go to the Palacio de Bellas Artes because she knew that heElena Poniatowska (00:46:11):would be there. And he walked right past her — past the seat, one of those red velvet seats in the Palacio de Bellas Artes, called butacas, in which she was sitting — he walked past and did not even recognise her.Elena Poniatowska (00:46:40):That story struck me deeply, and that is why I decided to write the small book —Elena Poniatowska (00:46:55):it is not a very long book —Elena Poniatowska (00:46:58):called Querido Diego, Te Abraza Quiela.Julian Vigo (00:47:00):In Tinísima, what was it that drew you to the life of Tina Modotti?Elena Poniatowska (00:47:08):In reality it came from a request to make a film. The cinematographerElena Poniatowska (00:47:17):Gabriel Figueroa told me that a film was going to be made about Tina Modotti, the Italian woman who had been in Mexico. So I began interviewing all the people who had knownElena Poniatowska (00:47:38):Tina Modotti. And even when I was invited to France for a conference, I had theElena Poniatowska (00:47:47):opportunity to go to Udine in Italy to meet and get to know the siblings of Tina Modotti —Elena Poniatowska (00:48:00):to see them, interview them, speak with them.Elena Poniatowska (00:48:05):Then when I was told that the film about Tina Modotti in Mexico was no longer going to be made because there was no money, I — who had gone at my own expense to that conference in France and another writers' conference inElena Poniatowska (00:48:37):Italy — decided to launch into writing the novel called Tinísima, because I hadElena Poniatowska (00:48:48):interviewed many old communists whom I had gone to visitElena Poniatowska (00:48:56):in their various homes — generally very modest, very poor homes.Elena Poniatowska (00:49:03):I did not want to let them down, and so the novel Tinísima was published.Julian Vigo (00:49:10):And to what extent does Tina Modotti represent the struggle of the woman artist in the twentieth century?Elena Poniatowska (00:49:19):To the extent that she commits herself —Elena Poniatowska (00:49:23):she takes photographs of Mexico alongside Edward Weston, and then goes alongsideElena Poniatowska (00:49:33):Commander Carlos of the Fifth Regiment to Spain — she goes to the Spanish Civil War and becomes a nurse, caring evenElena Poniatowska (00:49:52):on the ground for the bodies that had fallen on the earth before taking them to the Red Cross — giving them first aid and dedicating herself to saving lives,Elena Poniatowska (00:50:08):or helping to save lives. I believe that many soldiers did not die thanks to the care of this womanElena Poniatowska (00:50:19):who was in the trench following the doctors.Julian Vigo (00:50:25):You have said that the writer must be a bridge.Julian Vigo (00:50:29):Between what worlds do you think it is most necessary to build bridges — or should we be breaking bridges today?Elena Poniatowska (00:50:38):No, I think one should never break a bridge, for anything.Elena Poniatowska (00:50:42):I think one mustElena Poniatowska (00:50:45):communicate — that the most important thing in the life of any human being is dialogue. Peoples too must dialogue with others in order to know each other. I think Mexico must have a dialogue with the United States, and that many Mexicans who have returned fromElena Poniatowska (00:51:09):the United States because TrumpElena Poniatowska (00:51:12):did not want to receive them, has rejected them — well, they nevertheless had, with another nation or with the inhabitants of another nation, knowledge and dialogue.Elena Poniatowska (00:51:28):And that I believe is what is called,Elena Poniatowska (00:51:34):within Catholicism if you like, or within any religion by whatever name it may be called — that is human fraternity. The otherElena Poniatowska (00:51:50):is the one who exists and who awaits you and whom you must help, because perhapsElena Poniatowska (00:51:58):one day you will need him to extend a hand to you.Julian Vigo (00:52:05):Trump is certainly a character, but I see the situation as too tragic for Americans — the United States, still my country — because the reality is that a large part of the Western world has absolutely no idea of the immense cultural, intellectual, and spiritual richness of Mexico.Julian Vigo (00:52:30):For me, it's not only Trump —Julian Vigo (00:52:32):but Americans, Canadians, etc.Julian Vigo (00:52:35):know nothing about the sharpest chroniclers of this country. If you had to open the eyes of an international audience completely unaware of Mexico's depth, what would you say is the most valuable treasure of Mexican identity that the rest of the world is missing?Elena Poniatowska (00:53:01):Well, I must say that many North Americans have come and written about Mexico — anthropologists and sociologists. We have Oscar LewisElena Poniatowska (00:53:17):and many others who have written about the poorest Mexicans, starting in Tepoztlán, a city near Mexico City, following them to the vecindades in the city where they took refuge and found very modest work. So yes, there have been North AmericansElena Poniatowska (00:53:44):who have written about the richness and beauty of Mexico, and their books areElena Poniatowska (00:53:53):translated into Spanish and are admired and appreciated by Mexicans who are grateful that attention is paid to them. So one cannot say that no one who has come from outside has cared about Mexico — in archaeology, in anthropology, as well as figures like Frances Toor, who was a North American woman who created a magazineElena Poniatowska (00:54:39):called Mexico Today and wrote extensively about Mexican customs and lived in Taxco.Elena Poniatowska (00:54:41):For example, a certain William Spratling enriched himself personally but helped many Mexicans inElena Poniatowska (00:54:51):Taxco to learn how to work silver and sell silver. And still today many foreigners and tourists go to buy silver objectsElena Poniatowska (00:55:10):that come from a mine discovered by foreigners — and clearly alsoElena Poniatowska (00:55:20):plundered, one might say, by foreigners.Julian Vigo (00:55:30):Because not everything is entirely good or entirely bad. But I was referring to the fact that — as you know, having been in the United States and many other countries — Trump and far too many people insufficiently educated about Mexico think that all Mexicans want to invade the United States. But the reality is otherwise. In Mexico there was a great cinematic tradition, for example. Mexican cinema has greatly influenced Hollywood — not only today but throughout history. The Oscar statuette itself was modelled on the body of El Indio Fernández. People do not know the depth of Mexican philosophy. I am thinking of Sor Juana, who contributed so much to poetry, theatre, even science — if we think of her letter to Sor Filotea, who was actually Manuel Fernández de Puebla. That dialogue was very important. Western feminists know nothing of these exchanges between those two figures. But for me Mexico has an enormous and very important force in the history of philosophy, science, and feminism. And I am thinking of Octavio Paz's book on Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, called Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, or The Traps of Faith. You knew Paz closely. Did you have conversations with him about his perspective on this book — especially regarding the power dynamics of the Church and the silencing she suffered as an intellectual woman?Elena Poniatowska (00:58:09):No, but I think you are mixing very many topics into one question, and it isElena Poniatowska (00:58:18):difficult to answer you because you are speaking of very diverse things that evenElena Poniatowska (00:58:27):happened in different centuries.Elena Poniatowska (00:58:30):Sor Juana — there have always been in Mexico,Elena Poniatowska (00:58:34):before Octavio Paz, people who dedicated themselves to reading,Elena Poniatowska (00:58:40):studying, and getting to know Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz.Elena Poniatowska (00:58:45):I will not add more names to those you mentioned, but there are many studies and many Sor Juana scholars in Mexico, as well as at the University of SantaElena Poniatowska (00:59:01):Barbara, California, in Paris, in France —Elena Poniatowska (00:59:04):there are many studies on the great figures of Mexico — not only The Traps of Faith by the Mexican poet Octavio Paz. So these are studies that will continue and do continue. In California, for example, Sara Poot HerreraElena Poniatowska (00:59:32):is dedicated to studying Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, along with many other scholars — I don't know if she is still living — whose name was Rivers. All of these are studies that have been carried out in Mexico and outside Mexico.Julian Vigo (00:59:55):No, I was asking specifically about Paz's book because you knew him and —Elena Poniatowska (01:00:03):I knew him,Elena Poniatowska (01:00:04):I admired him, and I also wrote about him. I have a book about him. I admired him,Elena Poniatowska (01:00:12):I knew him, his poetry dazzled me. And he is a man whom I have admired since getting to know him, and whom I also hold with affection.Julian Vigo (01:00:29):I asked about your relationship with him because sometimes it happens to me too — with other writers — one asks or someone asks me, “Why did you do that?” It is a dialogue. Because that book, The Traps of Faith, had something very important — not only for Mexico but it placed the image of Sor Juana before the world. Many people began to ask who this nun was because it is very important. I was asking about the presentation Paz gave of her — whether you had any dialogues with Paz from your own perspective.Elena Poniatowska (01:01:20):Well, yes, of course. But there were others who also spoke at great length about Sor Juana de la Cruz — other Mexicans before Octavio Paz, other Mexicans who, for example, also concerned themselves with indigenous peoples, such as a priest — Ángel María Garibay — who was also a Sor Juana scholar. So there are many studies on Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz and there are Sor Juana scholars in Santa Bárbara, for example, such as Doctor Sara Poot Herrera and others — a woman by the name of Rivers and many more.Julian Vigo (01:02:16):You have dedicated your life to listening and giving voice to those who have none, through the chronicle and literature.Julian Vigo (01:02:26):Today,Julian Vigo (01:02:27):with social media,Julian Vigo (01:02:28):it seems that everyone has a platform for opinions.Julian Vigo (01:02:32):But are we really listening?Julian Vigo (01:02:36):What happens to the power of the word when it becomes a constant noise, as in social media?Elena Poniatowska (01:02:45):I don't know.Elena Poniatowska (01:02:46):I suppose it loses efficacy.Elena Poniatowska (01:02:49):But that depends on the activity of each human being.Elena Poniatowska (01:02:58):There are people — elderly people, for example, people already old — for whom life,Elena Poniatowska (01:03:08):even in institutions, in care homes, means turning the television on from morning until night and being entertained — that is, entertained without making the least effort of criticism or thought in front ofElena Poniatowska (01:03:29):the television.Elena Poniatowska (01:03:31):I have seen that this has been very important in keeping the elderly calm andElena Poniatowska (01:03:41):allowing them to die little by little in institutions called health facilities, where they have thisElena Poniatowska (01:03:52):constant and rather sad entertainment. ButElena Poniatowska (01:03:59):as they say in Mexico: no hay de otra — there is no other option, or no other option has been found, or there are not enough people willing to dedicate themselves to attending to and caring for others. So I see it as an end of lifeElena Poniatowska (01:04:28):for an individual who was once a thinking individual, who knew how to act,Elena Poniatowska (01:04:37):who knew how to elevate himself,Elena Poniatowska (01:04:41):to become a better human being. And I find it sad.Julian Vigo (01:04:46):Today, and for twenty years now, I have noticed as a university professor that students are reading less and less. Today, with so-called artificial intelligence — so-called because intelligence it is not — students are not reading. How can literature or journalism restore the true value and depth of words when we are in a world full of social media, opinions, and videos of a cat doing something funny?Elena Poniatowska (01:05:31):Your question is very difficult because I don't have the answer.Elena Poniatowska (01:05:37):What I can say is that ultimately it depends on the teachers.Elena Poniatowska (01:05:44):It depends on students having a good teacher,Elena Poniatowska (01:05:49):because even I have seen in classes —Elena Poniatowska (01:05:54):in different classes —Elena Poniatowska (01:05:57):that many young people continue looking at their phones while the teacher is writing onElena Poniatowska (01:06:07):the board, or speaking, or giving a class.Elena Poniatowska (01:06:13):So we shall see whether the destiny of young people will depend on what theyElena Poniatowska (01:06:21):learn from their phone. I don't have a phone —Elena Poniatowska (01:06:27):I never bought one,Elena Poniatowska (01:06:28):never got one. Or whether they will be able to go beyond themselvesElena Poniatowska (01:06:37):and beyond above all what the phone wants to give you or teach you or not teach youElena Poniatowska (01:06:46):or distract you from — because ultimately it is a distraction. Yes.Julian Vigo (01:06:53):Writing something to share — in quotation marks — they are sharing nothing in the end. I have noticed that many people are sharing articles they have not read. Young people are embracing identity politics and cancel cultureJulian Vigo (01:07:16):in the absence of any engagement with material reality today.Julian Vigo (01:07:21):That is my fear —Julian Vigo (01:07:23):that the millennials,Julian Vigo (01:07:26):this generation of thirty-year-olds,Julian Vigo (01:07:31):are fixated on pronounsJulian Vigo (01:07:36):but do nothing to help their neighbour.Julian Vigo (01:07:41):They do nothing to fight for living wages.Elena Poniatowska (01:07:46):Well, not all of them.Elena Poniatowska (01:07:49):It's a generalisation, of course.Elena Poniatowska (01:07:54):But I think you are right.Elena Poniatowska (01:07:58):It is a generalisation, because in any case there are human beings who live for others.Julian Vigo (01:08:08):We are in two camps today, because during the lockdown I noticed that many people — even on the right — were fighting for the poor in the United States, where I published. I could not publish a single article questioning the lockdown. That is when I started Savage Minds, because I was asking: what is happening? I no longer recognise this world in which the left is pushing people not to speak. We weren't talking about the lockdown, and the right was speaking very openly. And I see that politically, left and right — there is no longer that dichotomy, so to speak.Elena Poniatowska (01:09:02):Yes,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:03):I thank you greatly for your interest and I thank you enormously for this conversation. I feel animated,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:11):I feel glad to hear what you are saying.Elena Poniatowska (01:09:19):But I do feel that,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:22):as you say,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:23):the speed,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:26):the pace of all events,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:29):the television —Elena Poniatowska (01:09:32):it sets critical thinking and reflection on events to one side,Elena Poniatowska (01:09:41):because everything must be immediate, mustn't it?Elena Poniatowska (01:09:46):That is to say, everything ends in a second. Even the deepest interests sometimes last onlyElena Poniatowska (01:09:56):a few — one might even think, as we say in Mexico,Elena Poniatowska (01:10:01):un ratito — just a little while. There is no continuity in ideas orElena Poniatowska (01:10:12):even in purposes. There is something we all know called habit, and each personElena Poniatowska (01:10:21):lives according to the habits they have established in order to keep going —Elena Poniatowska (01:10:28):to keep existing, if you will. To make it to night, fall asleep, and know that you will wake the following day. Or perhaps you won't wake, because — well, for example, IElena Poniatowska (01:10:45):am a person of 94 years old and I have no certainty that I will see the following morning. ButElena Poniatowska (01:10:55):what I do believe is thatElena Poniatowska (01:10:58):I believe in the innate goodness of every human being.Elena Poniatowska (01:11:03):I have to believe in it, because I need that hope.(01:12:02): Get full access to Savage Minds at www.savageminds.co/subscribe

In this explosive Hour 2 episode, Rita dives deep into the shocking new sexual assault and drugging allegations surrounding Representative Eric Swalwell, questioning exactly what Democratic leadership—especially Nancy Pelosi—knew about his behavior and his past ties to a Chinese spy. Rita also sounds the alarm on frightening college campus protests where students are shockingly chanting, "Iran, you make us proud," arguing that these masked demonstrators should face real-world career consequences. Additionally, the episode calls out the bizarre takes of media figures like Thomas Friedman, who feels "torn" about wanting the Iranian regime defeated, and James Carville, who disturbingly stated he wants to watch Donald Trump "suffer". Plus, hear heated listener debates on the Pope's political stances and a touching tribute to a 100-year-old WWII B-17 gunner who recently received the French Legion of Honor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Французский метал: от рыцарского благородства 80-х до цифровой антиутопии.В этом выпуске мы отправляемся вглубь одной из самых самобытных тяжелых сцен Европы. Франция никогда не шла проторенными путями, создавая свой уникальный сплав из театрального драматизма, философских подтекстов и хирургической индустриальной точности.В эпизоде #217 мы проследим эволюцию жанра: от первых стадионных гимнов на французском языке до кибер-металлических лабораторий, чей звук опередил время на десятилетия.Главная тема выпуска: Музыкальный детектив длиной в 20 лет. В финале программы прозвучит трек, который я искал с 2005 года, сохранив в памяти лишь обрывок припева и атмосферу первого MP3-плеера.В этом эпизоде:Вспоминаем эпоху, когда французский язык был главным инструментом тяжелого рока. Легендарные Trust, вокальные сирены Sortilège и скоростные марши ADX.Благодаря каким французским группам Gojira стала главной группой страны и почему французский Death Metal считается самым «интеллектуальным».Погружаемся в холодный мир машин с Sybreed, Dagoba и тем самым «забытым» проектом из середины нулевых.Треклист:Trust — Antisocial (1980)Sortilège — Majesté (1983)ADX — Caligula (1985)Vulcain — Rock 'n' Roll Secours (1984)Blaspheme — Désir de Vampyr (1984)Massacra — Enjoy the Violence (1991)Loudblast — Cross the Threshold (1993)Gojira — Flying Whales (2005)Alcest — Autre Temps (2012)Benighted — Let the Blood Spill Between My Broken Teeth (2011)The CNK — I Am the One (2007)Sybreed — Doomsday Party (2009)Dagoba — The Things Within (2006)WorMachine — Virus (2005) — The Lost TreasureАвтор и ведущий: Асхат УскембаевСайт проекта: radioshow-armatura.kz#armaturakz

France plans to expand its nuclear arsenal and deepen cooperation with European partners, marking another step toward the “Europeanisation” of nuclear deterrence. What does President Macron mean — and what does it mean for the rest of us? Listen to the conversation with: Florence Robine, the French Ambassador to Norway Paal Frisvold, expert on European Affairs, Tankesmia Europa Mette Vågnes Eriksen, Secretary General, the Norwegian Polytechnic Society In this episode, you will learn why and how President Macron and France are taking stronger positions as a nuclear power. You will hear about France's nuclear history and the rationale behind its strategy of strategic ambiguity, as well as its doctrine that nuclear weapons serve strictly defensive purposes. We also discuss the evolving concept of extended deterrence with nuclear weapons — and how President Macron is inviting European countries to cooperate more closely with France in this area. What could this mean in practice? What kinds of nuclear capabilities might be involved, where, and when? And can we rely on the personal responsibility of the French President — at any given moment — to decide whether or not to press the nuclear button? You will also get to know Madame l'Ambassadrice Florence Robine, who holds a PhD in the exact sciences, is a recipient of the prestigious French Legion of Honour, and previously served as a professor of physics — a true Ambassadrice Polytechnique. As they say: “We will win all together, or we will lose all together” — for sure. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In some ways, the characters in this book were my first lovers.Today we meet Michael Horvich and we're talking about the queer book that saved his life: Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin.Michael is a retired Elementary School Educator and University Instructor. In addition he's many things, here's just a partial list: Poet, Collector, Museum Curator Emeritis, Book Binder, Supernumerary, Flea Circus Ringmaster, and Dementia/Alzheimer's Advocate. He has published two volumes poetry, which in part portray his journey navigating his life partner's Alzheimer's. His advocacy work has led to presentations at numerous organizations including at the Northwestern University Kellogg Graduate School of Business, 33rd Annual Alzheimer's Disease International Convention, and the Chicago LGBTQ Center on Halsted. He also gave the opening key note at the 2019 Mayo Clinic / Minnesota-North Dakota Alzheimer's Association Conference. Michael was featured in ALAN TELLER's “STILL AT IT!"ART SHOW.James Baldwin was a novelist, essayist, playwright, poet, and social critic. His first novel, Go Tell It on the Mountain, appeared in 1953 to excellent reviews, and his essay collections Notes of a Native Son and The Fire Next Time were bestsellers that made him an influential figure in the growing civil rights movement. Baldwin spent much of his life in France, where he moved to escape the racism and homophobia of the United States. He died in France in 1987, a year after being made a Commander of the French Legion of Honor.Connect with Michaelwebsite: www.horvich.comsubstack: mhorvich.substack.comfacebook: facebook.com/mhorvichcreatesOur BookshopVisit our Bookshop for new releases, current bestsellers, banned books, critically acclaimed LGBTQ books, or peruse the books featured on our podcasts: bookshop.org/shop/thisqueerbookBuy your copy of Giovanni's Room here: https://bookshop.org/a/82376/9780345806567Become an Associate Producer!Become an Associate Producer of our podcast through a $20/month sponsorship on Patreon! A professionally recognized credit, you can gain access to Associate Producer meetings to help guide our podcast into the future! Get started today: patreon.com/thisqueerbookCreditsHost/Founder: John ParkerExecutive Producer: Jim PoundsAssociate Producers: Archie Arnold, K Jason Bryan and David Rephan, Bob Bush, Natalie Cruz, Troy Ford, Jonathan Fried, Joe Perazzo, Bill Shay, Sean Smith, and Karsten VagnerPatreon Subscribers: Stephen D., Terry D., Stephen Flamm, Ida Göteburg, Thomas Michna, Sofia Nerman, and Gary Nygaard.Creative and Accounting support provided by: Gordy EricksonQuatrefoil LibraryQuatrefoil has created a curated lending library made up of the books featured on our podcast! If you can't buy these books, then borrow them! Link: https://libbyapp.com/library/quatrefoil/curated-1404336/page-1Support the show

Jean Borotra19x Grand Slam Winner6x Wimbledon ChampionFrench War Veteran WWI & WWIIPOWCollaborator with the Nazis?French Legion of HonoreeTennis Hall of FameRedemption 

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/economics

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/politics-and-polemics

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/finance

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joseph E. Stiglitz has had a remarkable career. He is a brilliant academic, capped by sharing the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the Nobel Peace Prize, and honorary degrees from Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford and more than fifty other universities, and elected not only to the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Letters but the Royal Society and the British Academy; a public servant, who served as Chair of President Clinton's Council of Economic Advisors and Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank, headed international commissions for the UN and France, and was awarded the French Legion of Honor and Australia's Sydney Peace Prize; a public intellectual whose numerous books on vital topics have been best sellers.What brought him to economics were his concerns about the inequality and discrimination he saw growing up. Wanting to understand what drives it and what can be done about it has been his lifelong passion. This book gathers together and extends to new frontiers this lifelong work, drawing upon the challenges and insights of each of these phases of his career.In a still very widely cited paper written fifty years ago, Stiglitz set forth the fundamental framework for analyzing intergenerational transfer of wealth and advantage, which plays a central role in persistent inequality. That and subsequent work, developed most fully here for the first time, described today's inequality as a result of centrifugal forces increasing inequality and centripetal forces reducing it. In recent decades, the centrifugal forces have strengthened, the centripetal forces weakened. His general theory provides a framework for understanding the marked growth in inequality in recent decades, and for devising policies to reduce it.A central message is that ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality is, in a fundamental sense, a choice. Stiglitz explains that inequality does not largely arise from differences in savings rates between capitalists and others, though that may play a role (as Piketty, Marx, and Kaldor suggest); but rather, it originates importantly from the rules of the game, which have weakened the bargaining power of workers as they have increased the market power of corporations. He also explains how monetary authorities have contributed to increasing wealth inequality, and how, unless something is done about it, likely changes in technology such as AI and robotization will make matters worse. He describes policies that can simultaneously reduce inequality and improve economic performance. Joseph E. Stiglitz is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University.  Morteza Hajizadeh is a Ph.D. graduate in English from the University of Auckland in New Zealand. His research interests are Cultural Studies; Critical Theory; Environmental History; Medieval (Intellectual) History; Gothic Studies; 18th and 19th Century British Literature. YouTube channel. Twitter.

In this episode of EGB Brian with a B and Amferny talk about the 1990 action movie, Lionheart. Enjoy the story of a French Legion deserter, Lyon, who flees to America to see his brother has been badly burned in a drug deal. He finds a new profession in high priced street fighting. This movie is directed by Sheldon Lettich and stars Jean-Claude Van Damme, Harrison Page, Deborah Rennard, Lisa Pelikan, Ashley Johnson and Brian Thompson. This movie is available on Prime Video, Fubo TV, Peacock, Pluto TV, Tubi, Crackle, Google Play and YouTube. Instagram Links: Follow Jean-Claude Van Damme @jcvd Follow Deborah Rennard @dkrennard Follow Lisa Pelikan @pelikan.lisa Follow Ashley Johnson @ashleythejohnson Follow Brian Thompson @brianearlthompson The podcast art is by @delasernaxtattoos on Instagram and has been revised by rodrick_booker on Fiverr. If you like what you're hearing subscribe and comment on our Instagram @berated_b_rated_movies, Facebook @Berated B RatedMovies and Tik Tok @berated_b_rated_movies. Check out our website at Beratedbratedmovies.com. If you have any comments or movie suggestions please send them to beratedbratedmovies@gmail.com RATED G®, RATED PG®, RATED PG-13®, RATED NC-17®, and RATED R® are certification marks owned by the Motion Picture Association, Inc. This podcast has not been rated or certified pursuant to the Motion Picture Association, Inc.'s film rating system nor is this podcast authorized by, endorsed by, or affiliated with the Motion Picture Association, Inc.

Thomas Keller has built a collection of restaurants that have set new standards in the hospitality profession. As the first American-born chef to receive multiple three-star ratings from the Michelin Guide for The French Laundry and Per Se and one star for The Surf Club Restaurant, he is the most recognized American chef by Michelin. In 2011, he was designated a Chevalier of the French Legion of Honor, the first American male chef to be so honored. He is the author of six cookbooks, including The French Laundry Cookbook, which recently celebrated its 25th anniversary.Alice Waters is the visionary chef and owner of Chez Panisse in Berkeley, California. She is the author of four cookbooks, including Chez Panisse Vegetables and Fanny at Chez Panisse. In 1994 she founded the Edible schoolyard at Berkeley's Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School, a model curriculum that integrates organic gardening into academic classes and into the life of the school.On May 29, 2025,  Thomas Keller and Alice Waters came to the Sydney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco for an onstage conversation with Phil Rosenthal, the creator of the PBS documentary series “I'll Have What Phil's Having” and Netflix's “Somebody Feed Phil.” 

How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance wellbeing, and reduce our carbon footprint? Online shopping is turning cities into ghost towns. We can now buy anything anywhere anytime. How can we learn to stop scrolling and start strolling and create more livable, sustainable communities we are happy to call home.Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance wellbeing, and reduce our carbon footprint? Online shopping is turning cities into ghost towns. We can now buy anything anywhere anytime. How can we learn to stop scrolling and start strolling and create more livable, sustainable communities we are happy to call home.Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance wellbeing, and reduce our carbon footprint? Online shopping is turning cities into ghost towns. We can now buy anything anywhere anytime. How can we learn to stop scrolling and start strolling and create more livable, sustainable communities we are happy to call home.Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance wellbeing, and reduce our carbon footprint? Online shopping is turning cities into ghost towns. We can now buy anything anywhere anytime. How can we learn to stop scrolling and start strolling and create more livable, sustainable communities we are happy to call home.Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

“It all starts at home. As a university professor, I have observed the process of transformation of different generations. We need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to our humanity, but to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense in our local communities.”Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.https://www.moreno-web.net/https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Subscriber-only episodeThis is a Vintage Selection from 2006The BanterThe Guys discuss WalMart's announcement that they will be offering organic produce. How do we define “organic”? What is “sustainably produced”? What impact will WalMart's marketing choice have on the American farmer?The ConversationThe Guys welcome Thomas Keller, who holds multiple three-star ratings in the Michelin Guide for his establishments The French Laundry in California and Per Se in New York City. He discusses what went into opening a second world-class restaurant across the country.  Hear about Chef Keller's four basic principles he uses to come up with his amazing dishes. The Inside TrackThe Guys were lucky enough to dine at Per Se and French Laundry so they enthusiastically welcome Thomas Keller to the show. Will Chef Keller take Francis's advice about a new product line?“Yeah, I think that's why I took it nice and slow, was because I really enjoyed being in the kitchen. I really enjoyed working with my team. I really enjoyed the guest interaction. I enjoyed being at the French Laundry,” Thomas Keller on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2006BioChef Thomas Keller is renowned for his culinary skills and high standards. He has established a collection of restaurants that sets a new paradigm within the hospitality profession, including The French Laundry, in Napa Valley, and Per Se, in New York, among others. He is the first and only American-born chef to hold multiple three-star ratings from the prestigious Michelin Guide, as well as the first American male chef to be designated a Chevalier of The French Legion of Honor. He has received countless accolades, including The Culinary Institute of America's “Chef of the Year” Award and the James Beard Foundation's “Outstanding Chef” and “Outstanding Restaurateur” Awards. He holds honorary doctorates in Culinary Arts from Johnson and Wales University and The Culinary Institute of America. Chef Keller led a team from the U.S. to its first-ever gold medal in the Bocuse d'Or, a prestigious biannual competition that is regarded as the Olympics of the culinary world.There are more than 1.5 million copies of his cookbooks in print.InfoTo access all of Thomas Keller's conceptshttps://www.thomaskeller.com/thomas-kellerThe French Laundry Cookbook by Thomas KellerChef Thomas Keller on Instagram@chefthomaskellerOur SponsorsThe Heldrich Hotel & Conference Centerhttps://www.theheldrich.com/Magyar Bankhttps://www.magbank.com/Reach out to The Restaurant GuysOur Places Stage Left Steakhttps://www.stageleft.com/ Catherine Lombardi Restauranthttps://www.catherinelombardi.com/ Stage Left Wineshophttps://www.stageleftwineshop.com/ To hear more about food, wine and the finer things in life:https://www.instagram.com/restaurantguyspodcast/https://www.facebook.com/restaurantguys**Become a Restaurant Guys Regular and get two bonus episodes per month, bonus content and Regulars Only events.**Click Below! https://www.buzzsprout.com/2390435/support

This is a Vintage Selection from 2006The BanterThe Guys discuss WalMart's announcement that they will be offering organic produce. How do we define “organic”? What is “sustainably produced”? What impact will WalMart's marketing choice have on the American farmer?The ConversationThe Guys welcome Thomas Keller, who holds multiple three-star ratings in the Michelin Guide for his establishments The French Laundry in California and Per Se in New York City. He discusses what went into opening a second world-class restaurant across the country from his first.  Hear about Chef Keller's four basic principles he uses to come up with his amazing dishes. The Inside TrackThe Guys were lucky enough to dine at Per Se and French Laundry so they enthusiastically welcome Thomas Keller to the show. Will Chef Keller take Francis's advice about a new product line?“Yeah, I think that's why I took it nice and slow, was because I really enjoyed being in the kitchen. I really enjoyed working with my team. I really enjoyed the guest interaction. I enjoyed being at the French Laundry,” Thomas Keller on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2006BioChef Thomas Keller is renowned for his culinary skills and high standards. He has established a collection of restaurants that sets a new paradigm within the hospitality profession, including The French Laundry, in Napa Valley, and Per Se, in New York, among others. He is the first and only American-born chef to hold multiple three-star ratings from the prestigious Michelin Guide, as well as the first American male chef to be designated a Chevalier of The French Legion of Honor. He has received countless accolades, including The Culinary Institute of America's “Chef of the Year” Award and the James Beard Foundation's “Outstanding Chef” and “Outstanding Restaurateur” Awards. He holds honorary doctorates in Culinary Arts from Johnson and Wales University and The Culinary Institute of America. Chef Keller led a team from the U.S. to its first-ever gold medal in the Bocuse d'Or, a prestigious biannual competition that is regarded as the Olympics of the culinary world.There are more than 1.5 million copies of his cookbooks in print.InfoTo access all of Thomas Keller's conceptshttps://www.thomaskeller.com/thomas-kellerThe French Laundry Cookbook by Thomas KellerChef Thomas Keller on Instagram@chefthomaskellerOur SponsorsThe Heldrich Hotel & Conference Centerhttps://www.theheldrich.com/Magyar Bankhttps://www.magReach out to The Restaurant GuysSupport the Show.Our Places Stage Left Steakhttps://www.stageleft.com/ Catherine Lombardi Restauranthttps://www.catherinelombardi.com/ Stage Left Wineshophttps://www.stageleftwineshop.com/ To hear more about food, wine and the finer things in life:https://www.instagram.com/restaurantguyspodcast/https://www.facebook.com/restaurantguys**Become a Restaurant Guys Regular and get two bonus episodes per month, bonus content and Regulars Only events.**Click Below! https://www.buzzsprout.com/2390435/support

Large crowds descended on East Clare today to pay their respects to the late literary great, Edna O'Brien. The Tuamgraney native was remembered as a worsdmith, extraordinary women and fabulous mother at her funeral mass this afternoon. The voice of Edna O'Brien speaking in 2015 where outlined her fearless approach to her 1963 debut novel "Country Girls" which would epitomise her legendary career to come. The book was initially censored in Ireland and denounced by the Church for highlighting taboo social issues. Throughout the course of her over 60-year vocation, O'Brien penned over 30 texts and was described during her funeral mass as someone who gave courage and spoke for those who were rendered dumb. Chief Celebrant Fr Donagh O'Brien said she was a wordsmith and a truth teller who paid the price for her bravery. St.Joseph's Church in Tuamgraney was packed to capcity for the service, with many more paying their respects watching from screens outside. Those in attendance included President Michael D.Higgins and First Lady Sabina, while Commandant Colonel Claire Mortimer represented the office of Taoiseach and Tánaiste. Irish Actor Stephen Rea was among those who delivered a reading during the ceremony, A number of gifts were also brought to the altar to celebrate Edna's life, they included copy of Ulyesses by James Joyce, a portrait of Samuel Beckett and flowers from her childhood home at Drewsboro House, which she was said to have described as "her home of homes". The French Legion of Honour was also brought up to recognise a lifetime of extraordinary achievement, as well as the budda to recognise her spiritual exploration. The eulogy was read out by Novelist Andew O'Hagan who paid tribute to Edna for wonderfully sharing her world with others. In Accordance with her wishes, Edna O'Brien was laid to rest at the ancient monastic settlement of Holy Island on Lough Derg. Speaking during the mass, her son Marcos Gelber said that although she will rightly be remembered for her literary works, she was a fabulous mother who showered her family with love.

Jim Tygart was a World War II veteran who drove a jeep during the D-Day invasion and other campaigns before being wounded in the Battle of the Bulge.The D-Day invasion launched on June 6, 1944. On the next day, Tygart went ashore at Omaha Beach, Normandy. It was in Belgium, after the start of the Battle of the Bulge in December 1944, that he was wounded.  The explosion, which destroyed his jeep, knocked him to the ground and left him with a serious leg wound. Tygart was awarded the Purple Heart and went on to a career as an aircraft instrument mechanic with Douglas Aircraft and later American Airlines. He was presented the French Legion of Merit medal by the French Consulate.Jim was 102 when he died May 24, 2022.As you listen to Jim tell his story you will feel close to the battlefields he experienced, heard on the podcast and oral history website VoicesOfOklahoma.com.

Richard Jackson recently received the French Legion of Honor for his service during World War II. The medal was delivered after a chance encounter at the senior facility where he lives.

Send us a Text Message.99-year-old Professor George Leitmann is a unique man. He is both a holocaust survivor and a WW2 US Army veteran who helped to liberate Nazi occupied France and Germany. Nazi persecution of Jewish people forced George and his family to flee their home in Austria and emigrate to the USA. Tragically, his father Josef was unable to get a visa to join them. Initially the family received Red Cross Messages from Josef but by 1940 these had stopped.As soon as he was old enough, George volunteered to join the United States Army, becoming an non-commissioned officer with the 286th Combat Engineer Battalion. In 1944, he sailed back across the Atlantic and returned to European soil, this time as a soldier in order to fight the scourge of fascism and look for his father. His tremendous acts of bravery and sacrifice were recognised when he was awarded the prestigious French Legion of Honour in 2013.I am hugely grateful to George for sharing his extraordinary story with me in this remarkable episode.Thank you to our media partner: Family History Zone – a website covering archives, history and genealogy. Please check then out at www.familyhistory.zone and consider signing up for their free weekly newsletter.

Find me and the show on social media @DrWilmerLeon on X (Twitter), Instagram, and YouTube Facebook page is www.facebook.com/Drwilmerleonctd   TRANSCRIPT: Announcer (00:06): Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge. Wilmer Leon (00:14): Welcome to the Connecting the Dots podcast with Dr. Wilmer Leon. I'm Wilmer Leon. Here's the point. We have a tendency to view current events as though they happen in a vacuum, failing to understand the broader historical context in which most events take place. During each episode, my guests and I have probing, provocative, and in-depth discussions that connect the dots between current events and the broader historic context in which these events take place. This enables you to better understand and analyze the events that are impacting the global village in which we live on today's episode. The issue before is what are the problems facing African-American aviators and other aviators of color in the commercial aviation space? To assist me with this discussion, let's turn to my guest. He's a man with well over 12,000 hours in the cockpit. In the commercial cockpit. He is Captain Clovis Jones, retired. Captain Jones, welcome to the show. Capt Clovis Jones (01:23): Thank you so much for having me. Wilmer Leon (01:25): If you would please introduce yourself. You have such a broad, such a vast resume. I don't want to give short shrift to any of your accomplishments, so please take a moment and introduce yourself, sir. Capt Clovis Jones (01:39): Okay. Clovis Jones Jr. Born in Dawson, Georgia. I wanted to be a pilot since I was four years old. I actually turned down a scholarship to Morehouse College in premed to go to the Army High School to Flight School program. However, my recruiter put something different on my contract. One reason is that he didn't get credit for recruiting officers and secondly, and that part of the world as a black person, that was not something that people who looked like him wanted people like me who looked like me to do so. I wound up in the infantry for three years, got out and asked for my scholarship back and went to Morehouse for a semester and was called by the Army's Aviation Department to see if I was still interested in flight school and I said yes. So I reenlisted into the army and did go to flight school, completing flight school. (02:35) I was a turnaround flight instructor for both the Huey Helicopter and for the Huey Gunships. Deployed to Vietnam as an instructor pilot, the safety officer and assistant officer officer. My second two in Vietnam. 10 days prior to that end, I was commissioned in the Army Field Artillery branch as a second Lieutenant Aviator returning to the states, I went to the basic course field artillery, then to the Army Aviations school at Fort Rucker, Alabama and became an academic instructor leaving the army. After about 10 years of active duty, I got my first line job with Hugs helicopters when they were working on the Army's new attack helicopter, the Apache and I was there from its flight test department, the Hughes helicopters from the building of the helicopter to its initial test flight through its delivered to the Army. Then my second flying job was with Xerox Flying Executives, third flying job with the Western Airlines, which is now part of Delta Airlines. Then to California, which is now part of American, and I found a home at FedEx and retired from FedEx as an MD 11 captain. I have been involved in flight organizations, both black and white and current president of the United States Army Black Aviation Association, and former president of the Organization of Black Airline Pilots, which is now the organization of black aerospace professionals. And my most recent flying job was with as a captain with JSX, a regional airline. Wilmer Leon (04:16): You are rated to fly both, as you just mentioned, helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. How unique is that for an aviator, particularly an African-American aviator? Capt Clovis Jones (04:30): Well, I don't know how unique it is, but there are a few of us who are dual rated and even fewer who were black. During Vietnam era, there were only about 600 black army aviators. So there's a book 600 more or less. And so to be dual rated, that's rare Wilmer Leon (04:54): To be dual rated. That is rare. Before we go any further, I'd be remiss if I did not mention the passing of Captain David E. Harris, the first African-American pilot for a major US passenger carrier. He died March 8th at the age of 89, and he once said, there's no way I should be the first. It should have happened long before 1964. I know you were friends with Captain Harris. If you could speak about him and his accomplishments. Capt Clovis Jones (05:37): Well, Dave Harris, just a principal gentleman, he was just outstanding and always he was a mentor, he was a good friend based on his experiences, he basically told us what to look out for and that was a time where the airlines use sickle cell trait testing to keep us from being hired. Yes, either you have sickle cell and one blood test says it all, but they would continue to test you to see if you had the trait. And that was one way that they would not bring us on board. Another was testing, so Dave Harris with American Airlines, he challenged that. So with the psychological testing, which had no barrier on you becoming a pilot. So he challenged that as well as the repeated blood testing to see if somehow if we didn't have the sickle cell trait with the first blood test, they would keep testing you hoping that you would show the trait and they could deny you hiring. So that was one of the milestones, and he was one of the presidents of the organization of black airline pilots. But just a principal gentleman Wilmer Leon (07:00): Mentioning the psychological testing, one would think someone with your background, Vietnam aviator, that all of the trials and tribulations that you went through overseas that the fact that you survived, that should be enough psychological testing to warrant you to be a commercial. I mean, if you can fly there, you can probably deal with passengers going between Dallas and wherever it is you're going to go. But that sounds as though that was another exclusionary process, not an inclusionary process. Capt Clovis Jones (07:40): Yeah, that's correct. That is correct. And when Marlon Green won his Supreme Court decision, Supreme that broke the barriers of us being kept out of the industry. He was hired but not trained, so he didn't get a chance to fly. So it was a delay even in that process. So there are a lot of delaying tactics that were used and there are those that are still out there. Wilmer Leon (08:07): Talk a little bit about Marlon Green. He was an Air Force aviator hired by Continental in I think 1957, but they rescinded his offer and then it took about six years for it to go through the Supreme Court, and the ruling was in his favor and sent a very wide message to the US airline industry about hiring. And I think he started flying for Continental in 65. Is that right? Capt Clovis Jones (08:39): Roughly around that time. I'm not sure exactly on the exact year or date, but you look at his background, he was well qualified to be hired, but then when they found out he was black, they rescinded it. So that's when he engaged in the lawsuit that wound up making his way to the Supreme Court. But this industry was supposed to be all white. Curtis Collins, a congressman from Illinois. She knew some of us filed it, and we talked about the challenges, trials and tribulations. So a congressional study was initiated and the University of Pittsburgh did that study, and it showed that the airline commercial airline industry wants to be all white, not a janitor, not a baggage handler or anything. Wilmer Leon (09:33): Even down to that level, Capt Clovis Jones (09:35): Down to that level. The other piece is that the Airline Policy Association Alpha had a clause in its bylaws that if you were black, you could not be a member. So even if an airline did hire you, you were not allowed on the property. So it was no point in them hiring you. Wilmer Leon (09:54): That sounds like the American Bar Association sounds like the American Dental Association. There were so many professional organizations. I know for example, my grandfather was a dentist. He graduated from Howard in 1911 and was the first African-American licensed dentist in New Orleans, but he could not join the American Dental Association, so he had to go to their conventions and wait tables so that he could be in the room while the latest advances in dentistry were being discussed. So it sounds like the airline industry was right along the same lines as so many of the other professional organizations in this country in terms of their restrictive, restrictive covenants and whatnot. Capt Clovis Jones (10:48): Well, that was just a reflection of America, what it was all about. We were to serve others and we were not to advance and we would to have restrictions on what we could do, what professions to go into. Nevertheless, with that in place, there was no profession that we were not proficient in. And as a point of history from Pineville, Louisiana, there was a gentleman by the name of Charles Frederick Page who had a flying machine. It was a lighter than air, kind of like a balloon, but it had directional control as well as a propeller, so it could move and change directions rather than just go up like a hot air balloon and let the wind take it where it would. 1903, you had a patent. The patent was finally granted in 1906. Well, here was a black man who was born during enslavement, taught himself how to read and write, invented this flying machine, filed for a patent and eventually was granted a patent. So we've been in and around the industry for a long, long time. Wilmer Leon (12:03): Over the past three years or so, we've been hearing a lot about DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and according to McKinsey and Company in the workplace, these are three closely linked values held by many organizations that are working to be supportive of different groups of individuals, including race, which is an artificial construct, but they list it, so I'll say it, ethnicities, religions, abilities, genders, and whatnot. With that being said, according to NBC, news Tech, billionaire and Tesla, CEO and SpaceX, founder Elon Musk has drawn a lot of recent criticism After he criticized efforts by United Airlines and Boeing to hire non-white pilots and factory workers, he claimed in a series of posts on X, that efforts to diversify workforces at these companies have made air travel less safe. Of course, he offered no evidence to support that claim because there is no evidence to support it, and he winds up getting into this exchange with people talking about it'll take an airplane crashing and killing hundreds of people for them to change this crazy policy. Do you want to fly in an airplane where they prioritize DEI hiring over your safety? And he then went on to say, this is actually happening. That post got 14 million views with just a few hours. I know you've got some ideas on the issue of DEI as well as some of Elon Musk's comments, and of course, we all know Elon Musk being a South African. He was obviously well-trained and well-versed. But your thoughts Capt Clovis Jones (14:08): Well, on the subject of DEI or as Elon Musk assembles, those D-I-E-V-I-E want to doc, first of all, when I hear the word diversity, basically it's a non-starter, and I don't like the term when it applies to black people, because black people have been in every industry. We have been from the White House to the outhouse, build a White House, build a capital, had engineers doing the building of the White House who were black, even though enslavement was the status of black folk in the country for the most part. Wilmer Leon (14:58): And to that point, design the city of Washington DC That's Capt Clovis Jones (15:01): Right, that's right. Wilmer Leon (15:02): Since you mentioned the capital in the White House design, the city of Washington DC after having designed the city of Paris. Capt Clovis Jones (15:08): Yes. Well, here you have us serving from the highest levels down to the lowest level and excelling. By the way, the first book on hospitality was written by a black man, and it is in the archives of the University of Massachusetts. Here's a successful man who basically set the standards for how you serve people in terms of accommodations as well as restaurant service. So we've been at the top of the games in every industry. We wouldn't have the space program that we have. We wouldn't have the internet that we have today. We wouldn't have self lubricating engines if it wasn't for black people wouldn't have turbocharges if it wasn't for black people. (15:54) So when I'm hearing this diversity piece, to me that's just the way the headcount, because now we can say we are diverse. We want to include everybody, and yes, they are, including everybody, because between all different groups and categories that HR departments have now, they can reach out and say, we have the most diverse work group because we have Pacific Islanders, we have Latinos, we have Africans, we have whatever other category you want to name. But then when it comes to the crux of fairness of black folks, there's an exclusion because you can hire all these others and fulfill your diversity claim, yet avoid hiring black people. So that's one of the reasons to me, if you are fair in your hiring and you have the standards set and you know what it is that you want, you're going to have a range of people from all colors, all genders if it's fair. So if it's not fair, then you have these made up constructs to basically for exclusion purposes. Now, that's my personal view. Wilmer Leon (17:07): Well, and to that point also, when you start looking at the categories and the qualifications or the demarcations within the categories, you start drilling down into, okay, you have 15 African-Americans. What positions do they hold? Is your CEO African-American is your CFO, African-American is your COO, African-American within your management structure and management chain within your elite classification of managers? Then all of a sudden we start to fight a different day. Capt Clovis Jones (17:44): Yes. One of the young fathers that I knew, he was asking me, I was flying for this company, he says, Clovis, why don't I have you as the chief pilot? I said, Hey, I don't have the complexion for the connection. So that ends that. Wilmer Leon (18:02): Did you fly President Mandela? Capt Clovis Jones (18:05): No, that was Captain Ray Doha. Wilmer Leon (18:08): Ray do. Oh, okay. Ray did that. Okay. Okay. Okay. (18:13) So give us a little bit about your background getting into the industry and overcoming the barriers that you had to overcome and how prevalent are those problems today? Because when I look at the data today, 90% of the pilots are still white male, 3.4% are African-American, 2.2% are Asian, and half of a percent are Hispanic or Latino. So those numbers tell me that we're still having a problem. In fact, I got a little bit ahead of myself because the question I was going to ask you to get into this conversation is we've spent a lot of time in the fifties and since the fifties singing we shall overcome. We can now board a plane and see African-American captains and first officers. Have we overcome? Capt Clovis Jones (19:21): By no means things have changed. There are things that are different. There are some things that are better, but the underlying system has just changed. So we still have this system where the overarching piece is that we're encapsulated to only hold certain positions, and that of course depends upon the company and the culture of the company, but we don't have, for example, desegregation. You had that and then you have the opening of opportunities for the airline at for minorities and women were considered a minority. So there were more white women, higher than black pilots, and that's still the case today. (20:05) So overcoming obstacles, my first day on the flight line to be trained as an army aviator, I had an instructor from the Northeast from either Vermont or New Hampshire, I don't recall exactly which. But en route to the helicopter for our first flight, he said to me, you look like a pretty good athlete. Do you know who Jackie Robinson is? I said, yes. Jackie's cousin lives down the street from me, says, well, I think you should get out of the army and go play baseball because black people don't make good pilots. And here's a person who is telling me that I shouldn't be a pilot and he's going to train me, but blacks don't make good pilots, so I should leave the program. So I knew what was in front of me. So I went to the flight commander and asked for a change of instructors, and the upshot of that conversation was, well, both of you are new. (21:03) He's a new instructor. You are his first student. You are a new warrant officer candidate, and this is your first flight, so it's going to look bad for both of you. And he wanted to know why. And I explained to him without saying, the guy's a racist. And he says he mulled over it for a second or two and says, this is what I'll do. I'll ensure that you have every opportunity that any of the other one officer candidates have in this program. And I said, okay, that's good. However, when I come back and ask for a change of instructors, I want a change of instructors, no questions asked. And that is what happened. This gentleman was, you can read the syllabus, you can understand what is to be done and you can mimic it, but there are certain standards or there are certain ways that the army wants you to fly. (21:59) And if you aren't trained to do that during your check rides, you get downgraded. He was teaching me wrong. So I had a progress ride. A young instructor who was about the same age as I was, was about 21 years old, and he'd been flying. He had his license when he was 16 to 17 years old. His came from a wealthy family and his family got him trained in the helicopter instructor and all that. He asked me to do a taxi, oh, this is not how we do it, asked me to do a takeoff. Oh, I got the aircraft. This is not how we do it. So he demonstrated every maneuver that he asked me to do because I was doing it as I had been trained to do it. When he showed me the way that I needed to do it in order to meet the standards that were expected of me, I did them as he demonstrated. (22:50) And at the end of the flight he says, I've got to talk to the flight commander. That's something not right here. You started this flight off unsatisfactory now, but you end it. You're above average. But I can't give you an above average because where you started, I just got to talk to the flight commander, and I just smiled. And so I said to myself, I already have. So my next day of flying, the Deputy flight Commander, Dick Strauss, need to give him props. And also the flight commander, Sam Countryman, Dick Strauss, we got into the helicopter, flew out to the stage field, we landed. He says, take it around the past three times and park it on a certain spot. And that's what I did. I soloed that day with this gentleman just flying with me from the main hella Ford at Fort Walters, Texas out to the stage field that we were operating from that day. (23:42) And at the end of my primary flight training, Dick Strauss showed me some things that you could do with a helicopter that were not in the syllabus. He said, it may come in handy one day, and it did for me because in a COBRA helicopter, which is know is heavy, I was an instructor giving an in-country orientation to a new pilot. And on very short final, we lost our 90 degree gearbox and tail rotor. And without a tail rotor, you do not have directional control in the helicopter. So we went from a nose up attitude to a nose down attitude spinning right, and it wanted to roll inverted left. And all of that last day of flying that Dick Straus showed me what the helicopter could do. Instinctively I did it. I stopped the turn by closing the throttle right rear cyclic to level the aircraft, pull the collective up, and we spawned about 1800 degrees like in about two seconds. But I was able to land the helicopter with just minimal damage. And I was told that's the first time that you'd had such a catastrophic failure that either the helicopter was not destroyed or the palace would not either killed or injured. (24:51) So everybody encounter is not against you, but you do have the remnants of the shadows of the echoes of you still have the echoes of slavery. You still have the echoes of containment of us being in certain categories, and there are people who really want to keep us there and some people who want to put us back there. So that is prevalent in our industry as well. Wilmer Leon (25:17): You're 21 years old, you're in the service, which is a hierarchical organization, and your instructor tells you that you need to leave the service and go play baseball. Capt Clovis Jones (25:30): Yes. Wilmer Leon (25:31): Where did you find the intestinal fortitude to manage that circumstance? By A, not punching him in the face, B, not saying anything derogatory to him and then punching him in the face. You see, I got to think about punching people in the favor, but no. So where did you get that ability to manage that circumstance to your favor, not your detriment? Capt Clovis Jones (26:09): Well, I learned firsthand about white racism and at four years old, and we had black insurance agents and white insurance agents come to the house to collect whenever that cycle was. And this one agent, he had a white car. My father had a black car, and so it happens that my father's car was parked in front of the house that day. He pulls up and he calls me over, and I was hesitant about going, but then I did go. He says, come over. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm not going to do anything to you. He says, put your hand on my car. And I hesitantly raised my hand. So he put my hand on his car. He said, how does that feel? I said, it feels okay. He said, now, go touch your father's car. So I put my hand on my father's car, and because it was about 11 o'clock in the day, sunshiny day in the summer, it was hot. (27:02) I jerked my hand off the car. He said, that's what I wanted to show you. White is better than black. And from that point on, I didn't like that gentleman anymore. So I realized there are people who will be encouraging to you and people who will try to convince you that you should take some lesser position or that you are inferior to them. So with that background, it's like then I knew about the Tuskegee Avenue at that point. Plus one of my mentors, Carl Bohannan, who was the first black presidential pilot when I was in an infantryman, he was flying the flying cranes in Vietnam in the first cab division. So I had examples of excellent black aviators that I knew about. So with that, I'm thinking, this guy's totally out of his head, and I know he's not going to train me properly. And so that's why I went to the flight commander and asked for a change of instructors, and it worked out in the end, but I had to put up with this nonsense and even accused me of leaving, of causing a circumstance where the engine could fail because he said, I didn't put the Carter pin back in the oil cap, and the vibrations could have caused the cap to unscrew, and because we of flying, the wind would pull the oil out of the reservoir hints causing the engine to seize, and we would have to do a forced landing. (28:34) I know that I didn't do that, and that was the day that I asked for change of instructors Wilmer Leon (28:39): Because Capt Clovis Jones (28:39): This guy, if he's going to lie and say that I did something that I know I didn't do because I was meticulous about everything, but you just have to understand who you're dealing with. Wilmer Leon (28:50): That was my second question on this issue, which was the subjective nature of your instructor's evaluations. So knowing that in circumstances like you're articulating, there's the checklist that he would go through, but then there were also the subjective factors that would enable him to fail you if he so chose to because he didn't like the fact that you tied your shoes because you're right-handed versus tying your shoes because you're left-handed or whatever it might be. Speak to that, please. Capt Clovis Jones (29:32): Well, that was the case. In fact, one of my dearest friends who's now made transition, Robert B. Clark Jr. He and I started in the same class. We didn't graduate in the same class because Bob was terminated from flight training because his instructor said that he could not fly. However, Bob knew how to fly helicopters before he came to flight school. He had the syllabus, he knew everything, and he appealed it all the way to the Department of Army. And the base commander was asked to get involved. So he asked Bob, can you fly this helicopter? He says, yes. Well, let's go out to the airfield and let's go fly to the stage field to where your flight group is flying. He did. I mean, he was off for three months, got in the helicopter, flew out there, landed, and they went and talked to the flight commander. And also that instructor, that instructor was fired on the spot. Of course, the flight commander was trying to protect him because it was civilian pilots training us, and they were with Southern Airways based out of Birmingham, Alabama. So again, that cultural piece, Wilmer Leon (30:40): Was that Birmingham or Bombingham? Well, both. What year are we talking about? Capt Clovis Jones (30:47): We're talking about 1967. Wilmer Leon (30:49): Okay, we're talking Bombingham. Yes. Capt Clovis Jones (30:52): Yes. 1967. Wilmer Leon (30:54): Okay. Capt Clovis Jones (30:54): So you have people who don't want to see you there in the first place. And there was this rule, there's only going to be one black graduate per class, just one. I don't care how many start, there's only going to be one. But after complaints by Bob, by me and others about what the situation was, in fact, that was a program. You had these data sheets that you would answer your questions on when the final exam for any of the courses we were taking, and they could program things based on the way we were using social security numbers. Then even if we knew that we scored a hundred based on going down after the test was over and looking at what you had marked versus what the answers were, black pilots could only get in the eighties if you got everything right, you were in the low to mid eighties, you never got higher than 86 on any exam because if you were just average going through your flight training and you were excellent with your academics, you could wind up being in the running for honor graduate for that particular class. (32:10) So they program that the black pilots could not score 100 on all of the written exams. So that was another trick, and it was proven that that was the case. So there are all kinds of obstacles out there, but you just have to be well versed enough to understand and identify and just not take things. I saw during the civil rights era of where corporations would come and they'd say to people who had, do you have a college? Oh, you're different. They try to tell 'em, oh, you're a different kind of black person, and they give them jobs. So jobs that black people never had an opportunity to have, make the kind of money. And then you have some of these people who got that because people were demonstrating an industries and some people got killed. They said, well, I have to pick my fight. Well, no, the fight picked you now. Do you have the fortitude to stand up and fight the fight, or are you just going to IQS and say nothing and go along with maltreatment? Wilmer Leon (33:10): What you just discussed in terms of taking the exams and the particular scoring parameters that were set. One of the things that both of my parents would say to me repeatedly, but my mother was incredibly emphatic, you have to be three times as good, four times as smart, and worked seven times as hard because you're black in America. And with that, you'll only get half as far. Because when it came to education and grades, my folks didn't play, and that was their thing. You have no idea how hard you are going to have to work to be successful because you are black in America. And what you just articulated is the living example. And the other thing, when I went to law school, what I found out my first year was if I was in a class, actually it was my second year, I was in a contract negotiating class and kicked everybody's butt in the negotiating rounds that we would go through, only got a B. And what I found out was the a's were reserved for the third year, students who needed that A, there were only going to be a certain number of a's awarded, and they were reserved for the third year students who needed that grade to increase their GPA. Capt Clovis Jones (34:48): Yeah. The thing is, this system was not designed by us. It's not a fair system, but we have to learn how to navigate it. And unfortunately, some of what I call the under 40 crowd, young people who are 40 and under, maybe I could increase the year by another five years or so, they came up thinking that things are fair, and it's all about your qualifications and your abilities, but there is a whole nother system that governs whether you get an opportunity, whether you succeed or whether you fail. The thing is you need to be aware enough to navigate those challenges. And some of my young people, Wilmer Leon (35:30): Well, you just said, be aware enough. And what I have found is a number of my contemporaries, they don't want to have these discussions with their kids. They don't want to. When I taught at Howard, I would say to my students, you got to be three times as smart and workforce. Many of them, they never heard that before. Dr. Leon, what are you talking about? Well, that's life in America. Oh, no, no, no, not anymore. Oh, Dr. Leon, you don't understand. Capt Clovis Jones (36:07): Well, that's the brainwashing. That's the brainwashing that's taking place. Yeah, it's example. I used to wear a P 51 pen and I'd paint the cockpit black, and that was several of those black pilots who did that, and that was just honoring the Tuskegee ever because they were the first to people in mass to show that we could do this. But you had pioneers like Eugene, Jacque Bullock, who was a World War I fighter pilot, had to go to Germany, not Germany, to France, France, France. But he caught a ride to France on a German boat, learned to speak German in route, and he wound up during World War II of being in the French Underground because he had a nightclub in Paris. And the German officers wanted to come and enjoy the entertainment and the music and the atmosphere. So he got a lot of intelligence that he passed on to the French Underground, and he and Charles de Gall were good friends, and he was given Wilmer Leon (37:12): Awards, the Legion of Merit. Capt Clovis Jones (37:14): Say again, Wilmer Leon (37:15): The French Legion of Merit. Capt Clovis Jones (37:22): Well, I'd have to do the research, but Charles Gall came to the US and he wound up coming back to us, and he was an elevator man for the NBC where the NBC studios were in New York, and he was interviewed, but his background is phenomenal, and I happen to know his grandson and other members of his family, a cousin, (37:49) But he couldn't fly in America. But in France he did Bessie Coleman. And you have Chief Anderson, who was the civilian chief pilot for the Tuskegee Airman, who by the way, trained Captain Dhar. He taught himself how to fly. He wanted to fly. His father borrowed money from the white person that he worked for, bought a plane for his son. No one would teach chief how to fly, but he'd go to the airport every day and he'd listen to the white policies. They came back and talk about what they did was successful and the stupid stuff they did. And Chief would get it in his airplane every day, crank it up and taxi. And one day he taxied it fast enough that he lifted it off the ground. He said, now I got to figure how to land this thing. Eventually he did get some instruction from the Wright brothers, and I've had the opportunity to fly one flight with Chief. So I guess I'm one degree or two degrees away from the Wright brothers and my flight journey. But you have all those obstacles in a way. (38:57) You have other pioneers, Janet Bragg, Cornelius Coffee, you have Willow Brown, and there are any number of others that have pioneered the way for us. Chauncey Spencer, Edwin Wright, Dwight, the sculptor. He was chosen to be the first black astronaut, but again, he was a pilot, but then that didn't the astronaut program because they didn't want any blacks in the program. And he had difficulties there. But he wound up being followed his passion in business and with art, and he is one of the most prolific sculptors in the country and doing art eye kind of art for us to recognize our heroes and sheroes. Wilmer Leon (40:01): You had as a Morehouse man, you had a relationship with Dr. King. Capt Clovis Jones (40:08): Yes, yes, I did. Wilmer Leon (40:09): If you could elaborate on that a little bit, please. Capt Clovis Jones (40:12): Yes. During the Albany movement, I would go down and listen to Dr. King's speech almost every night that I could. So I would catch a ride with teachers who lived in Albany, but worked in Dawson, walked to the church, and because we were young, they would put us young people right on the front row below the pulpit. And my minister of my church and Dr. King were Morehouse classmates. They graduated at the same time. So he said, well, when you see Martin again, you tell him I said, hello. I did. So that started a relationship with Dr. King and I, and after my tour in Vietnam, my foxo buddy invited me to Chicago to work on a political campaign, which I did, and that was this organization called the New Breed Committee. And they had a bunch of black organizations that were meeting with Dr. King on this one particular night when they were planning to march through downtown Chicago. (41:17) So I go to Hyde Park, and who do I sit next to? Dr. King. So we reignited our friendship, and he was saying during the meeting, we need some young people to lead our march through downtown Chicago. And I said, well, hey, I'll do it. And some of my Vietnam buddies, and we led that march through downtown Chicago. And then when I did leave Chicago and went to Morehouse for the second time, he would come, well, for the first time actually, because that was 1966, he says he would come to the college, Hey, come by the office and talk to me. And I just thought he was being nice. And that's one regret that I have that I did not take him up on just going to his church office and sitting down and having a conversation with him. But I did become good friends with his press secretary, junior Griffith. So he and I would have wonderful conversations, but I'd see Dr. King often come into Morehouse and every time come by the office and talk to me, come by the office and talk to me. And that's something that I didn't do because it's like he's just being nice. But now I wished I had Wilmer Leon (42:29): You do your tour in Vietnam, you go to Chicago, Dr. King asks you to lead a protest in Chicago. How did you reconcile what you fought for in Vietnam versus what you were subjected to when you got back home? Capt Clovis Jones (42:56): Well, during those days, it was tough with Vietnam veterans coming back didn't call us baby killers and spat on us. It was no reconciliation. Thing is is that Vietnam was dangerous. Being black in America was dangerous. So it was no different than walking through downtown Chicago for a purpose for black people in America than going to Vietnam, supposedly fighting for democracy when all they wanted to do was have their own independence. Because Ho Chi Minh came to America and he was trying to speak to the President of the United States, and that never did happen for whatever the reasons are. I mean, there are a number of stories as to why it never happened. And Ho Chi Minh lived in Harlem. He worked in a restaurant, but he lived in Harlem, so he understood the plight to black people in the country. That was one patrol we on. You have North Vietnamese out in the middle of nowhere, and they see that the unit is mostly black, wave at each other and keep going. Why are we going to fight each other out here? For what? So it was dangerous. It was dangerous in Vietnam. It was dangerous here in America because then as well as now you get in the wrong situation, in the wrong part of town, you can wind up dead. Wilmer Leon (44:21): You can wind up dead in the right part of town. Capt Clovis Jones (44:23): Well, look, you can wind up dead in your own house with no consequences. Nobody held accountable, nobody indicted. And Dr. King's last book, where Did We Go From Here, Wilmer Leon (44:38): Chaos or Community? Capt Clovis Jones (44:40): He said that shooting was the new lynching, and that is what we're living through right now. Wilmer Leon (44:49): I asked you that Vietnam question because I had an uncle, senior Master Sergeant George W. Porter, who was a Tuskegee Airman, an original and flew World War II and Vietnam, and I'm originally from Sacramento, California, and Uncle George lived around the corner. And so the Sacramento Kings honored him at a basketball game, and he could barely walk. By this time, he was about 89, maybe 90, he could barely walk. But when they played the national anthem, he stood up so fast and so erect. And so when it was all over, I said, oh, help me understand something. He said, what's that son? I said, how is it that with all that you went through? And he used to tell me all these stories about all the stuff that he was subjected to. I said, how is it after all that you went through, you still have the reverence that you have for this flag? And he looked at me like I had three heads, and he said, boy, that's my flag. I fought for that flag. I risked my life for that flag just because they want to claim it doesn't make it theirs. Do you understand me? Yeah, unc, I got it. And so that's why I asked you that question. Capt Clovis Jones (46:30): Well, just on the question of flags, black people live under a lot of different flags, but almost anywhere you go in the world, we're treat it the same. So just to me, a flag is just a marker. It is not something to be reverenced. Yeah. America treated me poorly in some instances, but America gave me opportunities as well. So just need to understand. This is where, to me, the principle that's going to liberate us all is where is the fairness? Where's the fairness in this whole process? Because you have communities that have been deliberately destroyed by local, federal, and state governments because black people were successful. Jacksonville, Florida, for an example, highway five, right through the black community, destroyed it. Other places, Wilmer Leon (47:28): Oakland, Detroit, Cleveland, urban Renewal, and the interstate highway system has decimated African-American communities. Capt Clovis Jones (47:41): Yes. And you have off ramps to get into the community, but you don't have on-ramps for people to leave the community to get back on the freeways. Wilmer Leon (47:52): The freeway in New Orleans that goes past, I don't remember the name of it, but it goes past the Superdome. Yeah. That's another example of how that has decimated the communities. Capt Clovis Jones (48:07): Yes, yes. And that's by design. And people talk about the government. Well, the thing is the government, you have to demand treatment from government, from anyone who have laws. And of course, you have to understand laws are things that are written on paper, but the real law is whatever that judge says, and you can appeal it if you want to, but you might fight for who knows how long and how many different appeals to different courts. But the laws, whatever that judge says, look at Plessy versus Ferguson. Separate, but equal is the law of the land. Then you have the 54 Brown versus Board of Education, no, separate. It is not equal. Okay. Same document, different judges. So when that happened, in my mind it's like, wait a minute. That's something not right about this whole picture because why you have the same document. Where is the fairness in all of that? What is really right? And now you have school desegregation, but you have most of the teachers a female, and they are not black. And you have this whole school system of charter schools being created by white women who didn't want their children to go to school with black children. So you still have people say, oh, we have overcome. Oh, it is better now. Yes, it's different, but in a lot of ways it's the same. Wilmer Leon (49:40): So what do you see as being the, if we look at the, again, I gave the data a little earlier, about 3% of commercial pilots are African-American. The system that they're flying under down does not seem to be that much different from the system that you flew under when you were in the commercial space. Capt Clovis Jones (50:10): Well, that's true. You have airlines having their own programs, which we tried to get them to do decades ago. They didn't do it until they have the critical pilot shortage. But it was oap that had the first US based flight training program from no Time to getting you into the commercial space. That was a venture between oap, the organization of Black Airline Palestine and Western University. With the support of Kellogg and the transportation department. You had foreign pilots being trained from no time to becoming first officers for British Airways, Emirates and United Arab Emirates, and Air Lingus and Ireland. I'm saying, well, wait a minute. Why don't we create a program where black people who want to become pilots, who have degrees go through the interview process, go through the testing process, and if they qualify and this meets the criteria for what the airlines want, then let's train them and let's move them into commercial airline space. Well, that program lasted until money was diverted from training black pilots to buying airplanes. And now the airlines are replicating what was done by BAP and University Western Michigan University. Wilmer Leon (51:46): Is there a sense of comradery today amongst black pilots that there was when you were coming through the system, or do many of them feel a sense of accomplishment and a sense of success and participation in the system to where that sense of comradery isn't deemed necessary? Hopefully that made sense. Capt Clovis Jones (52:16): Well, kind of both are true at the same time. Two opposites can be true at the same time. The younger group, if they kind of know each other, then there's that comradery, Hey, we're going to support each other. We're going to party together. Hey, we're going to have each other's backs when during the ups and the downs and all of that. But among those of us who came along early, we would talk about whoever was being put upon by the system or by that airline or by something we knew about it, and we would support, because if something was happening at one airline to a black pilot, we look for it to happen at our airlines. So how did we outmaneuver that? How did we navigate those systems? How did we learn from those challenges so that we wouldn't even be confronted with those issues? (53:12) But now, the young people who know each other, they tend to have that camaraderie. But with us, Hey, if you were a brother, and when sisters black women became pilots, we embraced and supported them because we knew how tough it was going to be for all of us young people. They think, oh, well, hey, it is fair. And the story I wanted to tell about the pen I used to wear with the P 51 and with the cockpit painted black. Oh, there was a white pilot and a black pilot, and they were both academy graduates, air Force Academy graduates. And the white pilot said, oh, Tuskegee Airmen. I said, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, they're some of my heroes. And the black pilot says, what? (54:05) And then the white pilot told him, oh, the Tuskegee Airmen did this, this, this, and this. He said, oh, well, I guess I need to brush up on my history. I said, yes, you do. I mean, you a Force Academy grad, and you don't know who the Tuskegee airmen are. That gives you some idea of the deficit in our history that is not being taught among our own people. And some people think that because they have a job and some money in the bank or millions in the bank, that they are immune. None of us are immune from how this system operates when it operates against us. And we need to own our own. We need to train our own. We're at a point now where there's no way that we should be dependent on somebody else to teach or train our own. Because as I experienced doing with my first stint with my first flight instructor, you can be taught wrong. (55:09) The subject can be covered with the items that need to be covered, but you can be taught wrong. And sometimes, for example, just one degree off on a heading for 60 miles, you are one mile off course. So small deviations can cause you to be way off course if you continue on that path. So we really need to know our own history. We need the truth to be taught so that our young people understand, number one, who they are to this social system that we live under and who we are to each other, that we'd better have each other's back and hold each other accountable. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Just because you're black, you don't get a chance. And all this I don't snitch. Well, the thing is, is that what you need to do is hold somebody accountable for bad behavior and destructive behavior in our own community. And we need to understand that our communities are precious and that we need to maintain the land that we have, the homes that we have in our communities, because others will come in and you won't recognize it five, 10 years from now. Wilmer Leon (56:22): I'm chuckling, I'm debating. I'm going to go ahead and bring this up. Just to your point. When the Willis situation developed in Atlanta, I did a show criticizing her for the horrific mistake that she made resulting in the process that she had to go through, and the weapon I took mostly from black women because all I was saying was that behavior is indefensible, especially at that level. She's playing at the level of the game where she's going after the former face of the empire. Capt Clovis Jones (57:13): Yes. Wilmer Leon (57:17): And I made the comment, you have now brought this on yourself. You couldn't keep your panties on, and homeboy can't keep his fly up, man, they came at me, but I hate black women. I have a colonized mind. Oh, who am I to? Oh, because one of the points I made was the community should not be tolerating this type of behavior. We don't want to go and tell our daughters or go and tell our sons that they're supposed to engage like this in the workplace. Oh, man. It was brutal. It was Capt Clovis Jones (57:55): Brutal. And you can attest to this. There's a course that you have in ethics in law school. So hey, where's that? I like the philosophy of Maynard Jackson, first black man of Atlanta. He says, his philosophy was if you are close enough to see the line that you're not supposed to cross, you're too close. And young people need to understand that, hey, you can take risks, but don't take risks on things that are going to come back and hurt you. We used to be told there's always somebody watching you and they were talking about God, the creators. There's always somebody watching you. Well, now there's always somebody watching you because you have these devices that your cameras can be turned on, microphones turned on track wherever you are. Wilmer Leon (58:53): And what was one of the things that they got her on? Cell phone records? Capt Clovis Jones (58:57): Yes. Wilmer Leon (58:58): Yes. Cell phone records. Yes. Well, you said that you only visited him so many. Oh, but his phone seemed to wind up in your driveway 55 times. Now, when I worked in corporate America, at one point, I taught sales ethics to the sales team, and my line to them was the appearance of impropriety in many instances could be worse than the impropriety itself. So just ask yourself, how does it look? And if it looks bad, it's going to be bad. Capt Clovis Jones (59:45): Simple enough. Wilmer Leon (59:46): Hey, simple enough. You and I did a show last week, and as a result of that show, you got a phone call from a young man who was very, very encouraged by what you had to say, a lot of which we have covered in this conversation. And he said to you that you, through your story, let him know he had a lot of work to do in his community. Could you elaborate on that, please? Capt Clovis Jones (01:00:20): Yes. Well, it's a group of us who are in narrative and learning about our history, understanding the principles, Africana studies that no matter where in the world you are, you're an African and your black person, and there's a whole system that's designed not to have you rise above a certain level. How do we recapture? When do we start our history? We started in 1619. We've cut ourselves out of millennia of culture, religion, spirituality, science, inscribed on the pyramid walls. Our people have depicted surgical instruments that are used to this day. So the Greeks did not invent medicine. Hippocratic was not the one who basically founded medicine, not the father of medicine. It was African folk folks that look like you and I. So with that, where's our mindset and what are we waiting on? So it encouraged him to do the work in the community. (01:01:35) So one of the things that I've learned through the years is that for a group of people to make progress or to make any change, good or bad, you have the square root of that number of people say 300,000. Well, you need 600 people, like-minded folks moving in the same direction, maybe not always agreeing, but you're like-minded in making things better, and you're doing the work on the ground to make it happen with whatever your talents are. That shifts the entire population. And so he talked about, Hey, we need to find a way to make this happen so that we can do our work on our own, teach our children. And he's on the ground doing just that. So he said, Hey, I figured it out. I know what we need to do. This is what we need, and these parts of town, now we have the template. Now we got to do the work to make it happen. (01:02:38) And one of the elders said, Hey, we already have the teams in place. It's just a matter of educating the teams to get them to think outside of the borders that they live in and expand their minds and understand that, hey, we were educating folks long before we came to America. We had culture. We had all kinds of things. Now, again, I have to say that everything about Africa is not glor flyable, but there are some things that are so you pick the best because when you do your best, you're going to get better and you're going to advance things rather than destroy things. Wilmer Leon (01:03:22): Captain Clovis Jones, Jr. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your commitment. Thank you for your work. Thank you for joining me today. Capt Clovis Jones (01:03:33): You're more than welcome. It is my pleasure. And thank you for having me. Wilmer Leon (01:03:37): Well, I'm going to have you back, folks. Thank you so much for listening to the Connecting the Dots podcast with me, Dr. Wier Leon. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. Also, please follow and subscribe. Leave a review, share the show, follow us on social media. You can find all the links below in the show description. And remember, this is where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge talk without analysis is just chatter, and we don't chatter on connecting the dots. See you again next time. Until then, I'm Dr. Wilmer Leon. Have a good one. Peace. Some lessons. I'm out Announcer (01:04:26): Connecting the dots with Dr. Wilmer Leon, where the analysis of politics, culture, and history converge.

Last time we spoke about the rise of Yuan Shikai, the outbreak of WW1 and the siege of Tsingtao. Yuan Shikai used every dirty little trick to seize and maintain his authority in the new republic. He forced the KMT's hand, prompting Dr. Sun Yat-sen to usher in a second revolution, but it ultimately failed as Yuan Shikai controlled the best army in China. Simultaneously world war one broke out and this placed China in an awkward position. Multiple nations held special territorial concessions in China and now they might bring the war to her borders. China protested as much as she could, but the Empire of Japan simply did not care when they came over to lay a siege against the Germans at Tsingtao. The siege of Tsingtao saw many historical firsts and was quite brutal. After all was said and done, China was served yet another humiliation, with many more to come.    #89 China's forgotten role during the Great War   Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Now this episode is actually going to be a bit of a side step from the chronological narrative so to say. China underwent an enormous amount of events during the course of WW1, most having to do with political relations towards the Empire of Japan. However, quite some time ago, on my personal channel, the pacific war channel, I tackled asia during WW1. I wrote a few episode looking at China, Japan, southeast asian nations, and something I found quite interesting is how China aided the Entente powers. People completely overlook this aspect of the Great War, but China and some of her southeast neighbors provided an incredible amount of manpower to both the western and eastern fronts. Stating that, I want to simply dabble into the specific subject of “what exactly did China do for the war effort?”. In the next episode we will jump into things like the twenty-one demands and the Treaty of Versailles. The declarations of war in Europe in late July and early August brought military conflicts immediately upon Chinese territory. On August 6th, 1914 China proclaimed her neutrality and prohibited the belligerents of WW1 from undertaking military operations upon Chinese soil. Now at the beginning it was sort of believed if not perceived the Great War was essentially a conflict between imperial powers, over their colonial possessions in a big game of world supremacy, thus China expected to remain neutral as a partially colonized country. Japan certainly did not care and began a siege against Tsingtao. China initially protested against the Japanese warfare upon her soil, but there was little Yuan Shikai could do about it. We wont get into here, but Japan certainly followed up her disrespect against China immediately after the siege of Tsingtao. Needless to say, China remained neutral for most of the war and this placed her in an interesting position. Now Yuan Shikai secretly offered British Minister John Jorden, 50,000 Chinese troops to help retake Tsingtao, but the British refused. The reason they refused was because of Japan. Japan refused to allow Chinese soldiers to fight in the war, because she was hoping to secure her authority as a powerhouse in the east. While Chinese citizens were not allowed by the Chinese government to participate in the fighting, this did not stop them from other actions Liang Shiyi was in charge of railways, the most profitable ministry within the government at the time and he had a grand idea. He called it “Yigong daibing” “laborers in the place of soldiers”. Now during the Ming and Qing dynasties, the idea of Chinese people going abroad to work was unprecedented. Both the Ming and Qing dynasties discouraged citizens from leaving the country and would persecute those who had. The Qing issued decrees banning emigration in 1717 and 1729, which would not be repealed until 1893. Thus when Liang Shiyi brought up the idea in 1915, it sort of showed how much China had changed in a short amount of time. He discussed his idea with Entente diplomats in early 1915. His original suggested to the British was to use military laborers, men who would carry guns, not be hired laborers. Now you might be asking, why do such a thing, what did China have to gain? If Britain accepted the proposal, it would mean China was fighting on the side of the Entente. But Britain turned Liang down in early 1915 and it is obvious as to why. Anyone who officially joined the war on either side, when the war was over would get a respected seat at the peace table, whereupon you could make demands. For a humiliated nation like China, seeing numerous global powers encroach upon her with unequal treaties, it was a no brainer getting a seat at that peace table might gain them what they wanted, to be rid of the unequal treaties, hell maybe even join the big boy club.  Having received the no from the British as one does, Liang went to the French. Now France from the offset of WW1 was in quite a panic and the idea of acquiring new human resources looked like an amazing idea. For France particularly in the summer of 1915, such an idea might be the decisive factor to win them the war. It also just so happened France was in the processing of securing new human resources from her vast colonial empire. If you want to hear more about French Indochina and Thailand's experience with WW1, please check out my specific episode on it, or my long format documentary on Asia during WW1 at the Pacific War Channel…or podbean I do have audio podcasts same channel name. Thus France began working with Chinese diplomats on the issue of recruit Chinese laborers. Come the summer of 1916, Britain's perspective had dramatically changed since 1915, as they were short on manpower.  Field Marshall Sir Douglas Haig requested 21,000 laborers be recruited to fill Britain's manpower shortage. This was to be restricted to the Western Front, as the British home front held domestic labor unions who vigorously fought any attempt to bring Chinese workers to the isles. Beginning in August of 1916, Britain began its Chinese recruitment plan. Now China as I said would remain neutral for most of the war, so technically the Chinese laborers were hired on the basis of a written contract, ie: treated like a regular work force. Now I am going to start off with the western front, thus the Chinese laborers fell into two categories, the travailleurs and spécialistes, translated semi-skilled labor and skilled labor, not literal translations, but as I interpret it. Funny enough my job outside the podcast business has me coordinating semi-skilled educational programs for high school students so I certainly know a lot about this haha. To summarize, semi-skilled labor is a term today referring to basic common labor whereas skilled labor is more difficult requiring more education. You can make a son of comparisons, but I find this one makes sense to the most people: a semi-skilled laborer in the kitchen setting is a dishwasher, you can grab a new worker, show them the ropes rather quickly and let them work, whereas a skilled laborer is a line cook, it takes some culinary education or a lot of training until that person can do the job effectively. I also worked in the restaurant business for a long time haha.  So with France the general contracts were for 5 years, with the British it was 3 years. The Chinese laborers in France would legally be equal to their french counterparts. They would be allowed to celebrate both Chinese and French holidays with benefits paid about 5 francs per day. For the British the Chinese would work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, paid one franc per day, while their families back in China received 10 Mexican dollars a month. Its difficult to estimate but a WW1 era franc probably can go for about 15 USD, so thats like 75$ per day for France, while for the British its 15$ a day + roughly 1100 USD a month. Now the laborers needed to be transported, fed, clothed and houses, and this was to be at the cost of France and Britain. Between 1916-1918 France recruited roughly 40,000 Chinese laborers, while Britain hired 100,000 who worked in France under their authority. When the United States joined the war, the American Expeditionary Force arranged to borrow 10,000 Chinese laborers from France to employ them under identical terms. The majority of the 140,000 Chinese laborers came from Shandong province. In 1916, the French government approached China asking to recruit its citizens for non-combatant use. A contract was agreed upon may 14th 1916 supplying 50,000 laborers who would make their way to Marseille in july of 1916. This was followed up by Britain's War Committee in London who formed the Chinese Labour corps, with its main recruiting base established in Weihaiwei on october 31st 1916. The first transport ship carried 1,088 laborers sailing from Weihaiwei on january 18th 1917. The journey took three months, each volunteer received an embarkment fee of 20 yuan, followed by 10 yuan a month paid to their families in China. By the end of the war this would account for roughly 2.2 billion dollars earned by Chinese laborers. As a result of the German submarine attacks, Britain needed a safe route and shipped 84,000 Chinese laborers through Canada. This was done in absolute secrecy as at the time Canada had the discriminatory Chinese Immigration Act of 1885 and Chinese Head Tax. Thus they boarded trains journeying 6000 kilometers from Vancouver to Montreal never leaving the train. As reported by the Halifax Herald in 1920 “They were herded like so much cattle in cars, forbidden to leave the train and guarded like criminals”. It was a grueling experience to be sure. China began to ship thousands of men to Britain, France and Russia. These non-combatants would repair tanks, assemble shells, transport supplies like munition, and dig trenches amongst many other things. Hundreds of Chinese students served as translators. It should be noted that the Chinese government and many intellectuals saw the overseas work as an enormous opportunity for Chinese youth to learn new technical skills and ingenuity which could be brought back to the homeland. The French and British military were the ones doing the recruiting, thus the majority would fall under military management and were organized into military type units commanded by officers. If they broke the rules, they could be court martialed and at least and at least 10 under British authority were executed during the war. It should be noted, during WW1 there were a lot of executions for numerous reasons, such as cowardice on the battlefield. Now the Chinese were promised they would not be working under fire, but more often than not they worked in close proximity to military zones, particularly under the British. Until China officially joined the war, the French kept their Chinese workers pretty far from the front lines. After China joined the war in 1917, the French began to assign Chinese to military zones more frequently. There were major differences between the French and British labor programs. The French mainly recruited through the mediation of Chinese contractors, while the British used their own agents. Also as you probably already noticed, the French offered better treatment than the British. For example the French paid higher wages and their labor laws were less restrictive, compared to that of the British labor corps. Now this was the early 20th century, racism was rampant, arguably more so for the British side, who notably locked their worker camps up with wire. The American expeditionary Forces apparently were the most racist, and this is not surprising as America certainly had more experience with Chinese labor. Between 1882-1943 Chinese laborers in American were discriminated against heavily, and the Americans in France had similar attitudes. Racism aside, there obviously were cultural differences, leading to misunderstandings and ignorance on both sides. It did not help that there was a lack of interpreters leading to managerial problems. Despite the racism, cultural misunderstandings and instances of mistreatment it has to be noted, Chinese laborers were a crucial component of the Entente war effort. The great war was a total war, it involved the frontlines and home front. The Chinese who came to France were youthful and strong men. They worked extremely hard, as I said 10 hour days, typically 7 days a week with some holidays.  By the end of the war and for a considerable amount of time afterwards, virtually all cranes in Dieppe, Havre, Rouen, Calais and Zeneghem were operated by Chinese. The French had a lot of praise for the Chinese laborers. General Ferdinand Foch said of them “Chinese laborers are first-class workers who could be made into excellent soldiers, capable of exemplary bearing under modern artillery fire.” H.R Wakefield of the British had this to say in a report “a splendid and versatile worker, inured to hardship and almost indifferent to the weather . ...It was certain that he would learn rapidly to cope with all the multitudinous kinds of work demanded by the huge British military organization overseas. ...Chinese [laborers] have a marvelous gift of imitation, and consequently they learn new and difficult tasks with great facility. ...[T]heir speed and endurance are phenomenal. Although the introduction of Chinese labor was a great experiment and there were some who shook their heads when it was first suggested…the experiment has succeeded, the doubters have become enthusiasts, the work accomplished has already been enormous, disputes and misunderstandings have been marvelously rare. The credit for this success can be equally shared by the British and Chinese”. It was said the Chinese work ethic impressed the British and French so much they became more welcoming to them compared to Indian and Egyptian workers. The British government began the repatriation of Chinese laborers in the fall of 1919 and this was completed on April 6th of 1920. The French repatriation program ended in March of 1922. By the end of the war, roughly 3000 Chinese laborers remained and settled down in France, including 1850 qualified men who signed new contracts to work for metallurgical industries. Other workers found employment in the mechanical or aeronautical sectors. Many of those who remained married French women. Two lived long enough to receive the French Legion of Honor in 1989. The Chinese under the British often found themselves working near battlefields and many did as a result. They were hit by bombardments and some Chinese workers even found themselves tossed into combat against German forces during emergencies. Tragically, after the war was over, there was a colossal amount of work needed for mine clearing and many Chinese would perish during this. By October of 1919, 50,000 Chinese laborers remained in the British camps as they were being evacuated roughly 15,000 per month. Nearly 2000 were buried in France. Many would not even make it to France. On february 17th, 1917 the French passenger ship SS Athos was sunk by the German U-boat SM U-65 off the coast of Malta. The ship was carrying 900 Chinese workers and 543 of them were killed. Roughly 3000 Chinese lost their lives in the Entente war effort in the west. The United States had recently severed diplomatic ties to Germany as a result of its unrestricted submarine warfare and pushed China to do the same. China severed diplomatic ties with Germany in March. The United States further advised China, that if they wished to be at the peace agreements China should declare war on Germany. China took the advice and declared war on the central powers on august 14th 1917.  Now this was all for the Chinese laborers in the western front, but the Chinese also did the same for the Russian empire. Like Britain and France, Russia's economy was collapsing as a result of WW1. The massive mobilizations and insane levels of casualties for the Russians forced the Tsarist government to procure labor by unconventional means. At first they began using women and POW's to compensate, but this quickly proved insufficient, so Russia turned to China. Now Russia had experience hiring Chinese labor since the 1890s, specifically for railway construction. It's more difficult to obtain information on the eastern laborers, but Chinese scholars estimate up to a possible 200,000 Chinese laborers worked in Russia. The system for Russia was nothing like France or Britain. Prior to WW1, private Russian companies and state projects using Chinese agents recruited workers within China, mostly in Shandong, Hebei and Manchuria. They contracted workers individually or in groups, who were given Russian visas and transportation by ship to Vladivostok or by train from Harbin. These laborers helped build the Trans-Siberian railway,  local urban infrastructure and agricultural work, playing a key role in the development of the Russian Far East. Thus when WW1 came around, Russia already had a system in place to hire workers. They worked in coal mines in the Donetsk region, cut timber in the Siberian Taiga, constructed railways in the polar zones of Northern Russia, carried ammunition and dug trenches in the eastern front.    Most of their recruitment was done in northeast China by the private companies like the Yicheng company, until 1916 when the Tsarist government tried to simplify things by placing control of recruiting under the Chinese Eastern Railway company in Harbin. The Chinese eastern railway company took care of all the administrative formalities such as performing medical examinations of workers, clothing them, provisioning them for the journey and placing them on guarded trains. And here is where the eastern workers differed rather dramatically from the western workers. Once in Russia, the Chinese workers were pretty much abandoned for a lack of better words. In the west, Chinese laborers worked under contract for the governments of Britain or France who managed them. In the east the Russian government did not manage them, it was private merchants. This meant many Chinese in the east did not receive adequate sheltering, clothing or food once in Russia. Conditions were extremely rough, the Chinese worked 10-11 hours a day, 7 days a week, living out of badly heated and overcrowded barracks. Sometimes they had no water supplies nor basic sanitation facilities. Many fell ill from the cold, lack of any medical care or food. Unlike with the French or British, Russian officers were not always assigned to overlook them, thus countless were just left on their own. Many of these laborers were employed to build a 1044 kilometer railway linking St-Petersburg to a new port in Murmansk. This meant they had to lay a line across frozen marches, lakes, rocky terrains and through countryside that was uninhabited and could supply nothing but timber. They worked in the cold, nights could reach 40 degree celsius. Many died due to extreme cold, lack of nutrition and disease. Because of the terrible conditions, Chinese laborers routinely protesting and performed violent riots. The Russians suppressed them very harshly, considering the incidents, mutiny's and a sort of sabotage of war related production. After receiving so many reports of mistreatment of their workers in Russia, the Chinese government demanded their own official representatives be allowed to accompany large groups of the workers in Russia to defend their labor rights. Russia refused to satisfy the demands, but did try to improve the working conditions. Unlike in the west where the Chinese laborers were strictly monitored and confined to specific areas, the Russians kind of dumped them everywhere. With so many Chinese scattered about Russia when the Russian government collapsed because of the Russian revolution, countless were stranded. Many Chinese laborers joined the Red Army or various guerilla groups during the Russian Civil War.  Many Chinese laborers truly sympathized with the Bolshevik cause, others simply joined the Red Army to survive. Those who did join the Red Army often did so for food or the opportunity to get back home as the revolution left many stranded. Ren Fuchen was China's first bolshevik and he was the commander of the Chinese Red Eagle Battalion. Estimates vary significantly, but it is estimated up to 40,000 Chinese laborers joined the red army fighting in multiple fronts like Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, the Caucasus, Volga and Siberia. They had no attachment to Russia or its places and thus were very useful as executioners and many were used as shock troops as no one expected to be attacked by Chinese. Their wartime experiences and cross-cultural exchanges with the Russians would play a critical role in shaping China's political trajectory during the interwar period. As we will discuss in greater detail in other episodes, the Bolsheviks sprang for the seed that would eventually create the CCP. It was during this cross cultural exchange in Russia that communism made its way to China, on the backs of the laborers coming home.  Thus this rather extraordinary story of Chinese departing their country to work or in some cases fight in the Western and Eastern front during WW1 was significant both for the history of China, but also global history. Working and fighting side by side with the Entente displayed China's determination to play a role in world affairs. Taking a step back, think about China's history until this point. Its more or less always been shutting out the world, rather than embracing it. When China was forced open under very brutal and tragic circumstances, it robbed her of being really able to join the world order. Despite being so ingrained in the global economy for so long, she was a very isolated state. It seemed to China, this was finally the moment she could rise to the occasion, change her fate as it were. China clearly signaled this to the world by her actions during the Great War. Also this was the first major time for her citizenry to really experience the west. It provided them with an opportunity to observe and learn from other civilizations, many students for example who went over would reflect on Chinese society. When they returned home, the brought with them new ideas and a strong desire for change. From the east this brought Marxist ideology, from the west it was various forms of democracy, capitalism, hell things we think of today as basic human rights.  Chinese laborers abroad came back to China forming a new national identity. There was also a large element of seeking experience and education. It was not simply the common class going out on their own, the Chinese Republic was pushing people specifically to go out into the world, receive education and vocational training to bring back to China. In something of a grand migration scheme the Republic hoped by sending some of their brightest students and technical laborers, they might manage something along the lines of what the Japanese did during the Meiji years. To give a more specific example, take the story of Li Shizeng. Li Shizeng was an intellectual, politician, and entrepreneur who went to study in France at the turn of the 20th century. He was very influential and helped translate many French books into Chinese. He advocated for dramatic reforms in China and was always pushing to have Chinese come into personal contact with the west, encouraging study and work abroad. In 1902 when he went to France for the first time alongside Wu Zhihui, they discussed the possibility of sending ordinary Chinese to Europe. For them the key to China's salvation was education in western nations. Sending students to the west as laborers was a perfect vehicle. Li Shizhens thought if a 1000 young Chinese workers traveled to France, they would make an enormous impact on Chinese society upon their return, imagine 140,000. In 1912 Li Shizhen alongside a group of other intellectuals, including a young Wang Jingwei formed the “Liu-Fa Jianxuhui” the Society for Frugal study in France. The major purpose of the society was to increase educational opportunities, to introduce Chinese to world civilizations, advanced learning and to develop a Chinese national economy.  When the Chinese laborers saw what a western country looked like, how their citizens worked and lived, it had a profound effect on them. One laborer named Fu Shengsan, explained the situation in an article titled “ Hua gong zai fa yu zhou guo de sun yi” “Chinese Laborers in France and Their Contribution to the Motherland”for the Chinese laborers weekly. He wrote that Chinese laborers did not really understand the relationship between an individual and their nation, or between a family and a nation, before coming to the west. After witnessing Europeans fighting for their country in WW1, it aroused a sense of nationalism and patriotism amongst the Chinese. Many came back home trying to explain this knowledge. Fu would write that the belief Westerners were superior to Chinese was false and that China just needed to become strong like them. All of this would drive China towards the May fourth movement, a watershed moment in Modern Chinese history, but that is a story for another day. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. China underwent great hardship during the Great War, something I will be talking about in the next episode, but she also became a valued member of the Entente, and helped to win the war. Yet the experience of Chinese laborers would have a profound effect on the future of modern China, showing China's people they could rise to the occasion.

Clement Leone stands in the war room, that is filled with many memories and mementos, at his home in Lake Heritage. He is wearing the Legion of Honor award which he received at the French Embassy in Washington D.C. (Darryl Wheeler/Gettysburg Times) This interview of Clem Leone was conducted at his home in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania by John Fenzel and his son Luke, on June 16, 2018.  At the time of this interview, Clem was 94 years old.  The following narrative is derived from multiple sources, detailed at the end of this post.  Many of the photos of awards, models and artifacts were taken at his home. Major Clement “Clem” Leone US Army Air Force   B24 Liberator Radio Operator 2nd Air Division/445th Bomb Group/700th Squadron POW - Stalag Luft IV Poland  Nov. '44 – May ‘45 Clem Leone was born in Baltimore in 1924.  He had two brothers and three sisters and one of his brothers served in the Merchant Marines during WW II.  I asked Clem what he remembered of growing up during the Great Depression.  “It was tough makin' a living.  Not enough food to eat.”  Clem had a step father who was a railroad telegrapher.  “He made an above average salary for the time, but even so, we had to scrounge everywhere we could to get food.”  Clem attended Southern High School, loved his experience, and characterized himself as a nerd.  “I went there to learn and I graduated with honors.” When the war broke out Clem was 17.  He wanted to enlist but his mother wouldn't let him.  “When they started drafting 18 year olds she let me go.”  Clem enlisted in November of '42.  The Army gave him several tests to identify his skills which would then be used to determine his military occupation.  Clem did well on the radio test and had he had the option of radio school or auto and truck mechanic school.  Clem had already taken auto shop in high school so he figured he should learn something else and he selected radio school.  Clem headed to Fort Pickett in Virginia and then to Miami Florida for basic training.  At the time the Army needed radio operators so badly that they shortened his basic training and sent him to radio school in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.  There he spent 13 weeks having “morse code pounded into you.”  Clem wanted to fly and after passing a physical for flying he went to gunnery school to learn every weapon on the aircraft.  The training was primitive but creative for the time and the technology available.   Next stop for Clem was Boise, Idaho where the gunners were teamed with a pilot, co-pilot, engineer and bombardier.  There were a total of 10 in the crew for the B24 Liberator.  The crew was sent to Sioux Falls where they practiced formation flying and Clem was assigned primary responsibility for the radio and secondary responsibility for the upper machine gun turret.  In November of '43 they left for Europe.  They headed for England via Brazil and then to the Ascension Islands.  “The Ascension Islands were a tiny speck in the middle of the ocean.  My thought right away was, the Navigator just got out of cadet training.  I hope he learned his lessons.”  The Navigator got them to the Ascension Islands where they had Thanksgiving dinner while they plane was serviced.  They then flew to Africa and then to Tibenham, England.  Clem was in the 700th Squadron and Jimmy Stewart was a pilot in the 701st Squadron.  One day Jimmy Stewart needed a radio operator to go on a training flight so he could check out a new pilot.  Clem volunteered.  “He was very strict.  You never would have guessed he was a movie star celebrity.” The crew's first flight in December '43 was a training mission to get accustomed to a new pilot.  During the flight, the number 4 engine caught fire and they were able to extinguish the flames.  The pilot was looking to make an emergency landing when the number 1 engine caught fire.  The pilot hit the bail out button and the crew ejected.  Clem didn't get out of the plane until they were at 800 feet, and he hit the ground so hard he broke his leg.  All but the pilot made it out alive. On February 4th of 1944 they had their first mission that took then into Frankfurt, Germany.  They loaded onto their plane, the “Wacky Donald” and headed for Germany.  Clem recalled the flight was uneventful, with lots of flack but no Nazi fighter planes.  They arrived at their target, dropped their bombs, and started to make their turn to head back to England.  One of the planes in the formation above the Wacky Donald had one bomb stuck in its bomb bay and when it released it hit the number two engine on the Wacky Donald.  Clem looked at the window to find a huge hole in the wing.  This forced them to drop out of formation and head back to Tibenham at a much slower speed than the rest of the formation.  The pilot ordered the crew to throw all non-essential equipment, including all but 50 rounds per machine gun, out of the bomb bay to lighten the plane to maintain their altitude.  They were 5 to 6 hours from home. Clem (lower left) with his crew. Top center is Lt. Robert Blomberg, an up and comer with the 445th Bomb Group who died at the controls when his ship blew up. Others in the crew were also KIA. Notable in this team photo is the small man next to Blomberg, Lt. Donald Widmark, co-pilot and brother of future actor Richard Widmark. The co-pilot would grab a parachute and leave Blomberg behind 75 years ago today. Clem's personal rule was to stay with the ship as long as the officers did, but when he saw Widmark bail out, he said, “It was time for this guy to go.” The plane and crew limped home and didn't hit any resistance until they received heavy flack over the coast of France just before they headed over the English Channel.  The plane dropped to about 4,000 feet and then received a radio transmission, “fighters at 6 o'clock.”  Two ME-109 were closing on the Wacky Donald.  Clem was in the upper gun turret and swung the guns around and took aim at the ME-109's.  Another transmission blared “fighters at 12 o'clock.”  Clem pivoted to 12 o'clock and saw a wonderful sight; two British Spitfires.  “Boy, they were beautiful.”  The Spitfires took out one of the Nazi planes and one of the Spitfires chased the other ME-109 back to France.  The Wacky Donald continued back to their air field and Clem recalled, “The White Cliffs of Dover….man they were beautiful!”.  The runway came into sight, but the excitement wasn't over.  The pilot said “I have to put us into a dive to get enough speed to land.  Put the landing gear into the down position and just pray they lock.”  Their prayers were answered, and the pilot got them home in one piece.  “None of us were hurt, but we did a lot of sweating.” With two near misses under his belt Clem flew 4 more missions into Germany and France without incident.  With D-Day looming, Operation Argument was developed.  The objective was sustained and heavy bombing of aviation related targets in Germany.  This was also known as “Big Week”.  The crew of the "Wacky Donald" received orders to bomb a ball bearing plant in Gotha Germany, 145 miles west of Dresden.  “That was a long flight.”  The 20 plane formation took off on February 24 '44.  While making their way to the target they came under attack by the Luftwaffe using Fokker 190's.   The enemy aircraft unleashed a barrage of incendiary rockets directly at the aft section of the "Wacky Donald." Clem was on the radio when he heard a tremendous explosion and saw flames begin to consume the plane. Amidst the chaos and the 200-mile-per-hour slipstream, Clem gripped the barrels of the top turret machine gun, a desperate attempt to maintain some semblance of control.  He looked around and found the tail gunner dead and half hanging out of the plane and one of the waist gunners dead in his position.  The other waist gunner was wounded but managed to eject.  The ball turret gunner came up to escape the fire, but he had to go back and retrieve his parachute leaving Clem and the Engineer to fight the flames with the fire extinguishers.  That proved to be pointless as massive amounts of hydraulic fluid fed the flames.  In a moment that seemed to stretch into eternity, Clem's dire circumstances took a dramatic turn.  The co-pilot climbed over Clem and exited the plane through the upper hatch and bailed out.  Clem's theory was, “if the pilot or the co-pilot leaves, it's time for this boy to go.”  Later Clem learned that 13 of the 20 planes in his formation were shot down. The engulfing fire reached the wing tanks, triggering a catastrophic explosion that instantly transformed the night sky. The force of the blast was so intense that it rendered Technical Sgt. Leone unconscious and propelled him clear of the disintegrating aircraft, setting him on a terrifying free-fall towards the earth below. Plummeting from an altitude of perhaps 10,000 feet, Clem was unconscious, his body hurtling down at a speed that should have guaranteed a fatal outcome upon impact. However, fate had other plans for the feisty airman. In a miraculous twist of events, Clem regained consciousness mid-fall, his face covered in blood, yet his mind startlingly clear. With death staring him in the face, he managed to summon his wits, frantically searching for the orange metal ring on his chest that stood between life and certain death. With a decisive yank, Clem pulled the ring, deploying his parachute and transitioning from a deathly free-fall to a controlled descent. Despite his injuries, including fractured ribs sustained upon impact, Clem survived the ordeal, a testament to his incredible resilience and presence of mind in the face of overwhelming adversity. This harrowing experience not only showcased Clem's indomitable spirit but also marked the beginning of an extraordinary tale of survival against all odds.   Clem put on his parachute and climbed through the upper hatch.  At this point the plane was still flying 240 mph and Clem had to hold on to the two upper guns to keep from blowing off.  The plane was being consumed by flames and Clem was trying to decide how to exit the plane without getting caught in the spinning props or being thrown into the big double tail in the rear.  “While I was contemplating what to do apparently the ship exploded because I found myself at 14,000 feet without an airplane.”   Clem knew he was over enemy territory, and his mind was spinning on how to avoid capture.  His chute opened without a problem and he could see below that there was a pond and he was headed straight into it.  “Well wouldn't you know it, I got out of the plane safely and here I am going to land in this pond and drown because I can't swim.”  Luckily, he remembered his training on how to use his cords to direct his landing.  At about 8,000 feet he saw a crowd of civilians running toward him.  Now he remembered being told that German civilians would kill American pilots because they were told they were gangsters. Clem made sure to pull his legs up so he wouldn't break them and instead broke three ribs and hurt his back. With the crowd rapidly approaching, Clem pulled out his sidearm to try and defend himself.  He could hear them yelling, “Hollander, Hollander!”  He then realized he wasn't in Germany but rather occupied Netherlands.  Clem motioned them to come closer and tried to use his language card to speak Dutch but to no avail.  They brought Clem to a farmhouse and gave him a slice of bread with some jelly and a drink.  Clem didn't know what to expect so he gave the Dutch his firearm in case he was captured.  Better the Dutch to have it than the Nazi's.  Then came a knock at the door and it was a member of the German Home Guard; A Dutch citizen in a Nazi uniform who said, “you are my prisoner.  For you the war is over.”  Clem was led down a road by the Home Guard followed by the Dutch villagers.  Clem was directed to enter a civilian camp, but the Dutch were yelling, “no, other way!”  A 17 year old ran up to Clem and said “come” and he began running.  Without thinking Clem took off with him.  At the same time the Dutch villagers handled the guard.  “They beat the daylights out of him!” They ran into the woods and took Clem to a camouflaged underground bunker just big enough for a cot and a bucket for a latrine.  They told him to stay put and they would be back as soon as the Nazi's stopped looking for him.  A few days later they returned with a doctor.  The doctor taped his ribs and gave him some pain killers and the Dutch brought him some food.  Clem was told he would have to stay put until the villagers were able to hand him off to the Dutch underground.  He hid in the shelter for a week.  One day he heard a truck pull up and was sure the Nazi's had finally found him.  Instead, it was the Dutch underground and Clem's luck continued.  The underground took him to Amsterdam where a family hid him for a while.  They hid him in the attic and sometimes closets.  In the evenings they took him out for walks. They were trying to arrange to get Clem into France and then over the Pyrenees Mountains into Spain and from there to England. The underground thought they had found safe passage and they took Clem and began walking south until they eventually came to a train station, and they handed Clem off to a guide to take him the rest of the way.  At the train station a Nazi soldier asked him where the train was headed.  Clem was dressed in civilian clothes and had identification papers that identified him as a deaf and dumb accountant from Sumatra.  They chose Sumatra because of Clem's Mediterranean complexion and Sumatra was a Dutch possession.  They took the train to a farmhouse in southern Holland and then walked to the border of Belgium.  At the border they had to time the patrols of the Belgium border guards so they could slip across the border.  Once across the border there was a truck waiting for them that took them into Antwerp. Clem was taken to a home where he was hidden for a short time until the underground felt they had another contact that could take him into France.  After exchanging pleasantries, the contact started asking Clem about the name of his plane, when he was shot down and who had helped him.  Clem made up stories about why he couldn't remember and gave up no information.  At that point he was led to a building and was handed over to the Nazi's.  After four and a half months Clem was no longer free.  It was July of 1944 and he had no idea when the war would be over.  I asked Clem what went through his mind at that point.  He said, “I thought it was all over.”  Clem was put in a prison cell with another American that had been captured, Odell Hooper from Oklahoma.  They remained there for about a week until the Nazis had accumulated more Americans.  They were then put on a passenger train to an interrogation center. “All that time, all my mom had was the telegram she received telling her I was shot down,” Leone said. “She didn't know whether I was dead or alive.” At the interrogation center they were put into solitary for a week.  When Clem was brought before the Nazi interrogation officer he was asked for his name, rank, and serial number.  The Nazi, in a very friendly manner said, “Leone.  That's Italian.  Aren't you fighting for the wrong side?”  Clem gave then no information and was sent back to his cell.  Next, they were taken by train to Stalag Luft IV located in present day Tychowo, Poland just south of the Baltic Sea.  Clem remembered when they stepped off the train they saw a long line of German guards, all very young in age and holding German Shepherds.  The Americans were told to run into the POW camp while the guards allowed the dogs to nip at their heels.  When Clem's group made it inside the camp the resident POWs told them, “You were lucky.  They usually prod you with bayonets.” “The Americans already there said we were lucky,” Leone remembered. “The captain who would prick people with bayonets had just gone on leave.” In eight months, Leone had one shower. Had him and his comrades known about the Jewish concentration camps, he admitted they probably wouldn't have gotten even the one shower so as to avoid being gassed. The camp held mainly allied air crews and most of the guards were from the Luftwaffe.  There was a connection between the aircrews which made life a tiny bit more bearable.  Clem was led to his cell by an elderly Nazi soldier who told him, “this won't be pleasant but its bearable and you will be able to live through it and you will be able to get to go home.”  Clem was offered the opportunity to be placed in the officer's camp as an orderly, but he refused.  He wanted to be with the NCO's.   The POWs were warned not to cross the warning wire” that extended around the perimeter of the camp.  If they stepped across it, they would be shot without warning.  Beyond the warning wire there was a series of fences and barbed wire entanglements to make sure no one thought of escape.  Food did exist and red Cross parcels were delivered with some regularity and had some nutrition in them.  Meals consisted of raw potatoes and bread with sticks in it.  Once they were given a block of cheese infested with bugs.  To pass the time they walked around the perimeter of the camp, played baseball with make-shift bats and balls, and played football with a make-shift football. The guards inside the camp were elderly and unarmed.  The POWs called them ferrets because they were always trying to get information from the POWs to pass along to the camp commandant.  The guards in the towers and in the Commandant's barracks were armed.  “They were nasty, and they all spoke perfect English.”  Bartering in the camp with the guards was a big business.  Cigarettes and spam carried high currency.   One of the men bartered with a guard for parts to a radio which he built into a functional transistor radio which kept the POWs somewhat informed of the progress of the war.  They knew the Allies were winning and that helped with morale. In January of '45 the Allies were advancing into Nazi Territory.  The men at the camp could hear artillery in the distance.  They thought Liberation could be not far away.  The Nazi's decided to evacuate the camp to avoid the Russian troops advancing from the east.  They decided to march the camp west.  The sick and wounded were transported by train.  On February 6, 1945, the remaining men began what would become known as the German Death March.   The men were assembled in columns of 4 or 5 across and were forced to march between 5 and 20 miles each day.  The men had inadequate clothing to provide them protection from one of Germany's harshest winters on record.  Snow and sub-zero temperatures resulted in frost bite and the complete lack of sanitation, food or drink resulted in extreme weight loss, lice, dysentery and in some cases death.  Men who could not keep up were escorted by a Nazi soldier into the woods and executed.  Sometimes the men were able to sleep in barns but often they slept in open fields exposed to the elements.  The march took the POWs through numerous German towns where they were distained by the German citizens who had endured prolonged and devastating Allied bombing.  They threw eggs and tomatoes and tried to assault the POWs.   They stole eggs for food. At one point, they collected all their cigarettes to trade with a farmer for a pig to roast. They dodged friendly fire from U.S. airplanes that had no way of knowing they were American prisoners. “Survival,” Leone said when asked what was going through his mind during the more than a year he spent in Europe. “How's this gonna end? What are they finally gonna do? Any time you don't have your freedom, I think you'd feel that way. The worst part of it as far as not having your freedom was that week in solitary.” Clem believes the march ended on May 6th, 1945.  That day they woke up and found that the guards had disappeared.   The POWs wondered what had happened.  A short while later they heard engines and soon a British Lorry appeared carrying British soldiers.    The number of men thought to have started the march was 6,000+.  The total time estimated for the march was 86 days.  It is believed the men covered 600+ miles as the Nazi's continually changed direction to avoid the advancing Soviet troops.  It is thought that 1,300+ men perished in the harsh winter conditions.  No official records were kept making it hard to get precise numbers.  Despite the lack of records this forced march is often compared to the Bataan Death March. The British took the POWs clothes and burned them.  They deloused the men and gave them plenty of time to take a nice hot shower.  Initially they were issued small portions of rations until their digestive systems became accustomed to food again.  Clem boarded the ship, The Jonathan Worth for a 13 day voyage home.  When they entered New York Harbor they were greeted with pleasure boats “with gals in bikini's and some of them had records playing don't fence me in.”  I asked Clem if he remembered seeing the Statute of Liberty.  “Oh Yes.  That was a wonderful site!”  Next, they were taken to Fort Dix and were given a big steak dinner.  They were permitted one phone call and Clem called his uncle to come pick him up.   Clem arrived back in Baltimore and had a 60 day recuperation furlough.  He looked up his high school sweetheart who had waited for him to return and they decided to get married and move to Miami where Clem was scheduled to report back for duty.  They were married and before they left on their honeymoon Clem received a letter to be ready to deploy to the Pacific.  Fortunately, when he returned from his honeymoon the war was over.   Clem went about building his life with a keen sense for making money and advancing.  He worked as an auto mechanic, then networked his way into a Pontiac dealership in the service area, became shop foreman and then went into sales and various other roles in the car business.  In a chance meeting someone asked him if he had ever considered teaching auto mechanics.  He had not but decided to give it a try because it had a pension.  Clem ended up teaching high school auto mechanics for 22 years and was beloved by his students.  He also stayed in the Army and Air Force Reserves for 33 years reaching the rank of Major.  “In my opinion, there are no real heroes in a war,” Leone said from his Mount Joy home in the Lake Heritage development. “There's nothing glorious about war. It's mayhem.” Clem Leone passed away at the age of 98 on Wednesday, September 28, 2022.  CLem received France's highest award, the Legion of Honor, at the French Embassy in Washington, D.C., and also received the Purple Heart, the POW Award and the Dutch equivalent to the French Legion of Honor. Luke Fenzel with Clem Leone (June 16, 2018) John and Luke Fenzel, with Clem Leone (June 16, 2018) The above narrative was derived from the following sources: Written Account by Walter Schuppe, Avon, CT, (860) 558-1072; walter11_22@yahoo.com "WWII vet, former POW, recalls War as 'Mayhem'," Gettysburg Times Article by Mark Walters, December 6, 2010 "Death for Wacky Donald," by Robert Matzen

The Honorable Franklin Miller is a principal at the Scowcroft Group in Washington, DC. He dealt extensively with nuclear policy and nuclear arms control issues during his 31-year government career, which included senior positions in the Defense Department and on the NSC staff.He was directly in charge of US nuclear deterrence and targeting policy from 1985 to 2001 and also chaired NATO's senior nuclear policy committee, the High-Level Group, from 1997 to 2001. He is a member of the Strategic Command Advisory Board and served on the Defense Policy Board from 2008-2020.He served on the 2008 Secretary of Defense Task Force on DoD Nuclear Weapons Management (Schlesinger Task Force), on the 2013-2014 Congressional Advisory Panel on the Nuclear Security Enterprise (Mies-Augustine Panel), and is currently a member of the on-going Congressional Commission on Strategic Posture.He publishes frequently on deterrence and arms control issues. He has been awarded the Defense Department's highest civilian award, the Defense Distinguished Civilian Service Medal, five times and received the Defense Distinguished Public Service Medal in lieu of a sixth award.Mr. Miller has also been awarded an honorary knighthood by Queen Elizabeth II, the Norwegian Royal Order of Merit (Grand Officer), the French Legion of Honor (Officer), and Japan's Order of the Rising Sun (Gold Rays with Neck Ribbon). A member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a Director of the Atlantic Council, he received his BA from Williams College and his MPA from Princeton University. He served as a surface warfare officer from 1972 to 1975.EPISODE NOTES:Follow NucleCast on Twitter at @NucleCastEmail comments and story suggestions to NucleCast@anwadeter.orgSubscribe to NucleCast podcastRate the show

Prepare to be captivated as we journey through the hidden narrative of a World War II infantryman with our illustrious guest, Louise Endress Moore. Louise brings to life her father's secret service as a heavy weapons machine gunner, a tale she painstakingly unearthed following her mother's death. Get ready to navigate the murky waters of wartime secrets and discover how Louise cracked the code on her father's involvement in D-Day, revealing the honor bestowed upon him - the French Legion of Honour.Our conversation with Louise doesn't stop at her father's gripping war saga; we also explore her journey to publication. In a world where many capitulate to the pressures of popular opinion, Louise stands out as an author who chose her path, finding the perfect balance between self-publishing and traditional publishing. Learn how she battled discouragement, honed her instincts, and spearheaded the design of her book cover and webpage. Hear first-hand how her book was received and the invaluable lessons she learned through the process. Louise's story is not just a testament to her father's courage but also a roadmap for women navigating the writing and publishing world. Come, be a part of this riveting journey!Connect with Louise:To contact, purchase, or for photos and information, visit www.AlfredtheBook.com  Follow along on Facebook.com/LouiseEndresMoore Looking for a wonderful Holiday Gift Giving Idea? Consider WordHaven BookHouse Book Boxes and Book Clubs (Banned Book Club and the Treehouse Book Club). Both contain a curated book that can be picked up locally or shipped to anywhere in the United States. WordHaven offers 1, 3, 6, or 12-month subscriptions to fit any size budget. Learn more on their website = https://www.kellydholstine.com/wordhaven-bookclubs Make 2024 the year your business SHINES! How does one make this happen? By partnering with the Ladies First Digital Media Company to elevate your brand through a podcast or YouTube Channel. Reach out this November to Rayna at rayna@ladiesfirstdigitalmedia.com to learn more and lock in 2023 prices before they go up in 2024. Check out the Ladies First Digital Media Company to learn more. Want to grow your brand and really elevate your voice this next year? Then consider starting a podcast or YouTube Channel with the Ladies First Digital Media Company in 2024. Already have a podcast or YouTube channel but need a stellar producer to take things off of your plate and help grow your audience, consider the Ladies First Digital Media Company. Reach out this November to lock in 2023 prices before they go up in 2024. Schedule a 15-minute call with Rayna to talk through your ideas - no strings attached. Email Rayna at rayna@ladiesfirstdigitalmedia.com and write "15-minute call" in the subject line to get started. You Betcha She Did! is produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Ladies First Digital Media Company⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Have a question or know a fab woman who should be featured on this podcast? Contact Rayna at youbetchashedid@gmail.com If you love the show, please subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a positive review

"The way I measured time for a very large part of my life was I was always in preparation. I remember as a child I was preparing to make my first communion, then I was preparing to go to junior high. There are always these lapses that existed ahead of us, where we were progressing through time predicated on noteworthy events. So I was always functioning as though there was going to be a significant event, which occurred in some kind of concept of the future. And that coincided in parallel with the fact that when you're young, you feel essentially immortal because the idea of being old or dying is so abstract. It's so far away. So now that I'm in this phase of my life where all I'm interested in doing is maintaining my health, doing my push-ups, and profiting from as much time as I have left. Because now I'm at the very peak of my powers as a photographer. I'm getting pictures much faster and in greater ratio, and I'm moving through the experience at a rate that I always had yearned towards. And in terms of exhibitions and publications and all that I had everything I wanted when I was 40."How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"I was fortunate to be able to visit the original Lascaux Cave in the Dordogne. And in any of these paleolithic caves, we find there are certain themes there that seem to be, as long as humanity has been on planet earth: there's always been war, there's always been migration. There's always been a search for God, a form of worship, and there's always been a fear of the apocalypse, the end of the world, which if you open up Paris Match tomorrow or the New York Times on the front page, you'll find those four subjects are still being addressed.Now, we're talking about BC up to today. Now, of course, things are moving much faster now than they did 40, 000 years ago. But I think that capitalism, which created much of this pollution, will find a way of sustaining itself in cleaning up all this pollution."Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."I was fortunate to be able to visit the original Lascaux Cave in the Dordogne. And in any of these paleolithic caves, we find there are certain themes there that seem to be, as long as humanity has been on planet earth: there's always been war, there's always been migration. There's always been a search for God, a form of worship, and there's always been a fear of the apocalypse, the end of the world, which if you open up Paris Match tomorrow or the New York Times on the front page, you'll find those four subjects are still being addressed.Now, we're talking about BC up to today. Now, of course, things are moving much faster now than they did 40, 000 years ago. But I think that capitalism, which created much of this pollution, will find a way of sustaining itself in cleaning up all this pollution."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"I've never wanted to be invisible. I'm voyeuristic, but in a purely intellectual way. I would suspect the reason for functioning in a vertical format is because the horizontal rectangle is the proportion of all narration, all visual narrative in all society now. In my case, the content is when I get my vision sufficiently stimulated to where I can perceive the corner of this desk with sufficient clarity to render it in some sort of monumental way. I want to make pictures of absolutely nothing purely based on the force of my perception and the power of photography."How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."I've never wanted to be invisible. I'm voyeuristic, but in a purely intellectual way. I would suspect the reason for functioning in a vertical format is because the horizontal rectangle is the proportion of all narration, all visual narrative in all society now. In my case, the content is when I get my vision sufficiently stimulated to where I can perceive the corner of this desk with sufficient clarity to render it in some sort of monumental way. I want to make pictures of absolutely nothing purely based on the force of my perception and the power of photography."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."I was fortunate to be able to visit the original Lascaux Cave in the Dordogne. And in any of these paleolithic caves, we find there are certain themes there that seem to be, as long as humanity has been on planet earth: there's always been war, there's always been migration. There's always been a search for God, a form of worship, and there's always been a fear of the apocalypse, the end of the world, which if you open up Paris Match tomorrow or the New York Times on the front page, you'll find those four subjects are still being addressed.Now, we're talking about BC up to today. Now, of course, things are moving much faster now than they did 40, 000 years ago. But I think that capitalism, which created much of this pollution, will find a way of sustaining itself in cleaning up all this pollution."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"I was fortunate to be able to visit the original Lascaux Cave in the Dordogne. And in any of these paleolithic caves, we find there are certain themes there that seem to be, as long as humanity has been on planet earth: there's always been war, there's always been migration. There's always been a search for God, a form of worship, and there's always been a fear of the apocalypse, the end of the world, which if you open up Paris Match tomorrow or the New York Times on the front page, you'll find those four subjects are still being addressed.Now, we're talking about BC up to today. Now, of course, things are moving much faster now than they did 40, 000 years ago. But I think that capitalism, which created much of this pollution, will find a way of sustaining itself in cleaning up all this pollution."Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."I've never wanted to be invisible. I'm voyeuristic, but in a purely intellectual way. I would suspect the reason for functioning in a vertical format is because the horizontal rectangle is the proportion of all narration, all visual narrative in all society now. In my case, the content is when I get my vision sufficiently stimulated to where I can perceive the corner of this desk with sufficient clarity to render it in some sort of monumental way. I want to make pictures of absolutely nothing purely based on the force of my perception and the power of photography."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"I've never wanted to be invisible. I'm voyeuristic, but in a purely intellectual way. I would suspect the reason for functioning in a vertical format is because the horizontal rectangle is the proportion of all narration, all visual narrative in all society now. In my case, the content is when I get my vision sufficiently stimulated to where I can perceive the corner of this desk with sufficient clarity to render it in some sort of monumental way. I want to make pictures of absolutely nothing purely based on the force of my perception and the power of photography."How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland. Ralph Gibson has photographed The Beatles, Lou Reed (with whom he also made the documentary Red Shirley), Laurie Anderson, and created album artwork for Joy Division. Gibson composes and plays his own music.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."Music is purely abstract sound capable of defining the undefinable. And it also happens to be a language that's universally spoken. We could play certain pieces of music in any society in the world and it would be to some extent or another perceived, understood. I recently read that there's never been a people that didn't have a music. And that can be a very small group of people. It doesn't have to be a gigantic society like Asian or Caucasian. It could be a small splinter group somewhere."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"Music is purely abstract sound capable of defining the undefinable. And it also happens to be a language that's universally spoken. We could play certain pieces of music in any society in the world and it would be to some extent or another perceived, understood. I recently read that there's never been a people that didn't have a music. And that can be a very small group of people. It doesn't have to be a gigantic society like Asian or Caucasian. It could be a small splinter group somewhere."Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland. Ralph Gibson has photographed The Beatles, Lou Reed (with whom he also made the documentary Red Shirley), Laurie Anderson, and created album artwork for Joy Division. Gibson composes and plays his own music.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

"The way I measured time for a very large part of my life was I was always in preparation. I remember as a child I was preparing to make my first communion, then I was preparing to go to junior high. There are always these lapses that existed ahead of us, where we were progressing through time predicated on noteworthy events. So I was always functioning as though there was going to be a significant event, which occurred in some kind of concept of the future. And that coincided in parallel with the fact that when you're young, you feel essentially immortal because the idea of being old or dying is so abstract. It's so far away. So now that I'm in this phase of my life where all I'm interested in doing is maintaining my health, doing my push-ups, and profiting from as much time as I have left. Because now I'm at the very peak of my powers as a photographer. I'm getting pictures much faster and in greater ratio, and I'm moving through the experience at a rate that I always had yearned towards. And in terms of exhibitions and publications and all that I had everything I wanted when I was 40."How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea.www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

How does the mind influence the mind? The mind cannot function without memory. And memory is just the mind aware of itself. So how do images tell us how we see and who we are?Ralph Gibson is one of the most interesting American photographers of our time. His international renown is based on his work, which is shown and collected by some of the world's leading museums, including the Museum of Modern Art in New York, the J.P. Getty Museum in Los Angeles, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Creative Center for Photography in Tucson, the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie in Paris, the Bibliothèque Nationale de France in Paris, and the Fotomuseum Winterthur in Switzerland.Gibson's works reveal a meticulous aesthetic and visual territory edging on the surreal. His recent books include his memoir Self Exposure, Sacred Land: Israel before and after Time, and Secret of Light, which accompanied his exhibition at the Deichtorhallen House of Photography in Hamburg. He is a Leica Hall of Fame Inductee and has been awarded the French Legion of Honor. In 2022, The Gibson | Goeun Museum of Photography devoted to his work opened in Busan, South Korea."The way I measured time for a very large part of my life was I was always in preparation. I remember as a child I was preparing to make my first communion, then I was preparing to go to junior high. There are always these lapses that existed ahead of us, where we were progressing through time predicated on noteworthy events. So I was always functioning as though there was going to be a significant event, which occurred in some kind of concept of the future. And that coincided in parallel with the fact that when you're young, you feel essentially immortal because the idea of being old or dying is so abstract. It's so far away. So now that I'm in this phase of my life where all I'm interested in doing is maintaining my health, doing my push-ups, and profiting from as much time as I have left. Because now I'm at the very peak of my powers as a photographer. I'm getting pictures much faster and in greater ratio, and I'm moving through the experience at a rate that I always had yearned towards. And in terms of exhibitions and publications and all that I had everything I wanted when I was 40."www.ralphgibson.comwww.deichtorhallen.de/en/ausstellung/ralph-gibsonwww.gibsongoeunmuseum.comwww.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.orgIG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Edith Wharton was born Edith Newbold Jones on January 24, 1862, into a wealthy New York family. She was a prolific writer, known for her insightful and critical portrayal of the American upper class. Her most famous works include "The Age of Innocence," "Ethan Frome," and "The House of Mirth." Wharton was the first woman to win the Pulitzer Prize for Literature in 1921. She was also a keen designer, traveler, and a dedicated supporter of French efforts during World War I, for which she was awarded the French Legion of Honor.The Story and Its Context: "The House of the Dead Hand" was published in 1904, a time when Wharton was beginning to establish herself as a serious writer. This was a period of significant personal and social change for Wharton. She was beginning to question the constraints of her privileged New York society, and these themes of societal constraints and personal freedom are evident in the story. The story also reflects Wharton's love for Italy and her deep knowledge of art and culture."The House of the Dead Hand" by Edith Wharton is a compelling exploration of power dynamics, personal freedom, and the enduring influence of the past. The story centers around Miss Lombard, a woman trapped by her father's control and his obsession with a Leonardo da Vinci painting. Even after her father's death, she remains ensnared by his influence, symbolized by the painting she cannot sell. This narrative can be seen as a critique of patriarchal control, reflecting Wharton's own questioning of societal constraints. From a Freudian perspective, Miss Lombard's complex relationship with her father can be interpreted as a manifestation of the Elektra complex. The story also incorporates elements of Jungian psychology, with the painting serving as a powerful symbol of the unconscious. Wharton's narrative structure effectively builds tension, foreshadows dramatic events, and delivers a chilling twist, leaving a lasting impression of Miss Lombard's despair and entrapment.New Patreon RequestBuzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREESupport the showVisit us here: www.ghostpod.orgBuy me a coffee if you're glad I do this: https://ko-fi.com/tonywalkerIf you really want to help me, become a Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/barcudMusic by The Heartwood Institute: https://bit.ly/somecomeback

Patti Smith's music education and evolution, from 1. Being transfixed by Little Richard's Tutti Frutti walking down the street with her mom → 2. Wanting to become an opera singer after hearing Eleanor Steber's “Un Bel Di” on the radio → 3. Starting to write poetry at the advice of Bobby Neuwirth → 4. Writing songs for Blue Oyster Cult → 5. Embracing the scene at the Chelsea Hotel, hanging with Janis Joplin → 6. Meeting Jimi Hendrix on the steps at Electric Lady Studios → 7. Raising her kids with her husband Fred in Michigan, away from the pressures of the music industry → 8. Receiving important advice from William S. Burroughs → 9. Remembering a class with her eighth grade music teacher that's stayed with her throughout her career Patti Smith is the author of the National Book Award winner, Just Kids, as well as Woolgathering, M Train, Year of the Monkey, and Devotion. Her seminal album Horses has been hailed as one of the top 100 albums of all time. In 2005, the French Ministry of Culture awarded Smith the title of Commandeur des Arts et des Lettres. Inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2007, Smith is also the recipient of the ASCAP Founders Award, Sweden's Polar Prize for significant achievements in music, and the 2020 PEN Literary Service Award. In 2022 she received the French Legion of Honor and the Pegasus Award for Poetry. She resides in New York City. Follow Silverlake Conservatory of Music at @silverlake_conservatory  For more information on Parallel, visit parallel.la Follow Cadence13 at @cadence13 Follow Patti Smith at @thisispattismith Follow Flea at @flea333 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices