Podcasts about Nabisco

American snack company

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Best podcasts about Nabisco

Latest podcast episodes about Nabisco

Ze Shows – Anime Pulse
Manga Pulse 475: Elder Hell

Ze Shows – Anime Pulse

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 24, 2022 94:23


Coming to you straight from the home of the Keebler elves. No, not wherever some factory that Nabisco claims to own. We're doing this now from a tree in the middle of the woods. Around us lay the corpses of those that dared so stand in the way of our hunger for grasshopper cookies. The rest are hiding out in the back, cranking on the cookie machine. Which means we're here and, like the only proper oreo, double stuffed with reviews. Tim has a new entry in manwha with Hell 58. In the future of Terra, there's crime. The best way to deal with evil criminals is to consign them … Continue reading "Manga Pulse 475: Elder Hell"

The Big Idea
CEO of Dewey's Bakery Mike Senackerib

The Big Idea

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 3, 2022 38:11 Transcription Available


In today's episode, I have the CEO of Dewey's Bakery, Mike Senackerib! Mike has a long history of working in the cookie business at Nabisco as well as at Campbells, Hertz, and Kraft. We talk about the ins and outs of what it's like running a multimillion-dollar company and what interested him to make the switch to a smaller cookie company. Check out Dewey's Bakery! @deweysbakery | Deweys.com

Michigan Business Network
Media Business | Dave Lorenz - Travel Michigan, Pure Michigan

Michigan Business Network

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 27, 2022 18:45


Tony welcomes Dave Lorenz Vice President-Travel Michigan at Michigan Economic Development Corporation Before that Dave was already A seasoned tourism professional, Lorenz has served for more than a decade as the Industry Relations and International Marketing Manager for Travel Michigan and has been responsible for Travel Michigan's efforts in the areas of international marketing, packaged travel, conventions and meetings, industry relations and sports-event promotion. His responsibilities will now also include heading up the state's tourism branding and marketing efforts through the award-winning Pure Michigan tourism campaign as well as coordinating overall efforts of the Travel Michigan organization. Prior to coming to Travel Michigan in October 2002, Lorenz was the Manager of Partnerships and Promotions, for Meijer, Inc. where he was responsible for the facilitation of collaborative marketing programs with key consumer goods manufacturers such as Nabisco, Kraft, Kellogg's, General Mills, Coca-Cola, Disney and Mattel. Lorenz attended Western Michigan University. He lives in Norton Shores with his wife, Roberta. “This is an exciting time for our state. The economy continues to come back, our communities are becoming more vibrant and more people are able to see all of the great things our state has to offer in which to live, work and play,” said Steve Arwood, Chief Executive Officer of the MEDC. “I'm confident that Lorenz will continue to find smart, innovative ways to grow the tourism campaign, making all Michiganders proud to call this our home.” Pure Michigan is a brand representing business, talent and tourism initiatives across Michigan. These efforts are driven by the Michigan Economic Development Corporation, which serves as the state's marketing arm and lead advocate for business growth, jobs and opportunity with a focus on helping grow Michigan's economy. » Visit MBN website: www.michiganbusinessnetwork.com/ » Subscribe to MBN's YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCqNX… » Like MBN: www.facebook.com/mibiznetwork » Follow MBN: twitter.com/MIBizNetwork/ » MBN Instagram: www.instagram.com/mibiznetwork/ Thank you to Benjamin Robinson and Motor City Skyline's music

Cool Things Entrepreneurs Do
Black Inventors Got Game with James Howard

Cool Things Entrepreneurs Do

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 26, 2022 33:18


In this episode of "Making Waves at C-Level", Thom talks to James Howard, the founder of the Black Inventors Hall of Fame. They talk about his new documentary, "Black Inventors Got Game", race, and success.   About James Howard James Howard is a, lecturer, design historian, industrial designer/inventor of some 300 products with 18 patents. He is currently the owner/operator of Entrepreneurial U, a specialty private career school of Design Thinking. One of his courses, “Bridge” Exploring New Career Pathways, takes students through the problem solving processes: problem/necessity, solution, and execution and leads them to new career pathways and job opportunities. While teaching for more twenty years at The County College of Morris in New Jersey, Professor Howard was an owner/operator of the award-winning firm Howard Design., an industrial design practices whose clients included Coca-Cola, Colgate Palmolive, Johnson & Johnson, Nabisco, Pfizer and the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency). The New Jersey based company was one of the longest running and most profitable minority owned design firms in the country James Howard serves as Executive Director of THE BLACK INVENTORS HALL OF FAME, (www.BIHOF.org) a virtual museum), devoted to immortalizing African Americans whose noteworthy inventions have improved lives yet gone unnoticed. James also serves on the Board of Directors for the Unites States Intellectual Property Alliance, and he is presently assisting the National Inventors Hall of Fame curate their very first Black Inventors exhibit, to be open to the public in the fall of 2021. For four years James has served as a Subject matter expert on Design thinking for the Keller Innovation Center at Princeton University. He is also a visiting lecturer for the University of Texas Center for Integrated Design, James earned a Master and Bachelor of Fine Arts -Industrial Design at University of Illinois, Urbana, IL. James was recently awarded Honorary member of the National Academy Of Inventors. Contact James at JHoward@bihof.org https://bihof.org https://thomsinger.com/podcast/black-inventors-got-game Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ba'al Busters Broadcast
WARNING About John Birch Society with Eustace Mullins clips

Ba'al Busters Broadcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 22, 2022 126:02


Eustace Mullins and Michael Collins Piper detail the inconsistent and seemingly Conflicting Official Positions held by The John Birch Society since Nabisco, a Rockefeller interest, bought the Welch Candy company in 1963 for 20 times more than its estimated value. James Welch, brother of Robert, co-founder of the alleged anti-communist John Birch Society, was handed $10,800,000 for a company that was hardly worth $200,000 at the time. He was also made director of Nabisco for the next 15 years meaning more, continued pay and incentives. Since then they have made some rather surprising statements regarding communist infiltration, the JFK assassination, and have mirrored the views of the ADL and Mossad on many topics. They have outright taken a Pro-Israel stance ahead of the US and its founding principles. https://GiveSendGo.com/BaalBusters Thank You

The Empire Builders Podcast
#058: Shreddies – Good good whole wheat Shreddies

The Empire Builders Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 20, 2022 19:28


Sold in Canada, UK, and Australia this breakfast cereal was a boring and dying brand until…. Find out how a simple twist made all the difference to their advertising and promotion Dave Young: Welcome to The Empire Builders podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom and pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector, and storyteller. I'm Stephen's sidekick and business partner, Dave Young. Before we get into today's episode, a word from our sponsor, which is, well, it's us, but we're highlighting ads we've written and produced for our clients. So here's one of those. [BWS Home Services Ad] Dave Young: Welcome to The Empire Builders podcast. Dave Young here, along with Stephen Semple, and as usual, Stephen just gives me a loose idea of a topic, and then I have to... It's almost like a quiz show, Stephen, and today it's just the number 58. It's the number 58. What could that possibly mean? We've already done 57, that's fine. Stephen Semple: There you go. There we go. It's quite a bit of a roll here. We now can prove to people we can count. We went from 57 to 58. Yeah, 58 is an important number for you and I, because it now means we've been releasing this podcast on a weekly basis for a year. But then people go, "But wait a minute, Steve, there's 52 weeks in a year." Well, we started with six episodes, because one of the things in podcasting they talk about doing is, you should start with a bunch in the can because when people come to your episode, often what they want to do is, they discover it, they like it, they want to be able to binge. 58 is a year. So look, we're going to have to have a little celebration and fireworks and it's a big deal. And that's the other important question. You up for another year, Dave? Dave Young: Sure, I love doing this. We've got some of our partners and friends that are helping in the background with this, and we have a 92% listen through rate. Stephen Semple: Yeah, that was Matthew shared that. Dave Young: Matthew, okay. Stephen Semple: Yeah, because he handles a lot of the social media postings around this. Dave Young: That's a pretty good stat for a podcast. A lot of podcasts are like, "Eh, people just bail once they feel like they've got the meat of her." Stephen Semple: One of the stats on podcasts is... I can't remember whether it's 25 or 30% of listeners drop off in the first five or 10 minutes. Dave Young: It's always fun to record. The stories are always interesting. We both love how people build a business and the interesting things that they end up doing that make all the difference for them. Stephen Semple: Yeah, and we have a fun one today. It's a little different story, but we have another fun one that we're going to go over today. Dave Young: Okay, are we going straight into that or is this just a... Stephen Semple: Let's go straight into that. Let's give people what they're here for. Dave Young: Okay, all right. So I don't even know what we're going to be doing other than 58. Stephen Semple: Other than 58, well, what we're doing is... Now this is a product not available in the U.S. It's available in Canada, Australia, and UK. It's a cereal that's made by Post called Shreddies. So Dave, just for your benefit, I'm going to hold up the... Dave Young: Oh, we don't have that in the U.S. of A. in Texas. Stephen Semple: So the important thing to note on Shreddies, is it's a small square cereal made of shredded wheat. Dave Young: Is it the same as Shredded Wheat? Stephen Semple: It's the same but very different because it's really thin and tiny and crunchy. Dave Young: Okay. Stephen Semple: Really thin wafer. It was first introduced in 1939 by Nabisco, and it started in Canada. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this one,

Know Nonsense Trivia Podcast
Episode 210: Glizzy Guzzler

Know Nonsense Trivia Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 11, 2022 81:17


Quizmasters Lee and Marc meet for a trivia quiz with topics including History, Television, Cocktails, Etymology, Musical Instruments Cosmetics, Snack Origins and more! Round One STRANGER THINGS - On Stranger Things, members of the Hellfire Club meet regularly to participate in what activity? COCKTAILS - What spirit is used to make a Harvey Wallbanger? LITERATURE - What is the name of the lost love mentioned repeatedly in Edgar Allen Poe's classic poem The Raven? TELEVISION - "Whine Club" and "The Last Time I Saw Meris" are episodes of what TV show? OLD MAN STUFF - The word 'ham' in ham radio is short for what (with regards to its practitioners' skills)? ETYMOLOGY - What term, meaning "mate" or "colleague" derives from the Spanish or Portuguese word meaning "chamber mate"? Round Two MAGICIANS - What magician is known for his TV and stage show titled Mindfreak? MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS - What is the term for a flute that is not shaped like a tube whose modern incarnation was first developed in Italy in the mid-19th century? COSMETICS - Which cosmetics company was originally named the California Perfume Co.? SNACK ORIGINS - In 2018, Nabisco redesigned its packaging for what product based on public criticism spearheaded by PETA? CAMEOS - Which actor, whose won four Golden Globes and two Academy Awards (one for acting and one for producing) is the voice of Stan's gay dog Sparky on the television series South Park? U.S. NAVAL BATTLES - What European country was the U.S.'s ally during the First Barbary War? Rate My Question POP MUSIC - Released in 2019, what song holds the world record for Longest Charting Song on the Billboard Hot 100 at 90 weeks? 90's MUSIC - What female 90s musician is said to be the inspiration for the Smashing Pumpkins song "Bodies"? Final Questions LEGO - In 1965, what type of vehicle was the first to be released by LEGO? GLOBAL POLITICS - In 1960, which country whose name means "resplendent island," had the first ever woman Prime Minister? Upcoming LIVE Know Nonsense Trivia Challenges July 13th, 2022 - Know Nonsense Challenge - Point Ybel Brewing Co. - 7:30 pm EST June 14th, 2022 - Know Nonsense Trivia Challenge - Ollie's Pub Records and Beer - 7:30 pm EST July 16th, 2022 - Quizgardium Triviosa! A Potterverse Pub Quiz - Point Ybel Brewing Co. - 6:00 pm EST You can find out more information about that and all of our live events online at KnowNonsenseTrivia.com All of the Know Nonsense events are free to play and you can win prizes after every round. Thank you Thanks to our supporters on Patreon. Thank you, Quizdaddies – Gil, Tim, Tommy, Adam, Brandon Thank you, Team Captains – Kristin & Fletcher, Aaron, Matthew, David Holbrook, Mo, Lydia, Rick G, Skyler Thank you, Proverbial Lightkeepers – Elyse, Kaitlynn, Frank, Trent, Nina, Justin, Katie, Ryan, Robb, Captain Nick, Grant, Ian, Tim Gomez, Rachael, Moo, Rikki, Nabeel, Jon Lewis, Adam, Lisa, Spencer, Luc, Hank, Manu, Justin P., Cooper, Sarah, Karly, Lucas Thank you, Rumplesnailtskins – Mike J., Mike C., Efren, Steven, Kenya, Dallas, Issa, Paige, Allison, Kevin & Sara, Alex, Mike K., Loren, MJ, HBomb, Aaron, Laurel, FoxenV, Sarah, Edsicalz, Megan, brandon, Chris, Alec, Sai, Nathan, Tim If you'd like to support the podcast and gain access to bonus content, please visit http://theknowno.com and click "Support."

TechCrunch Startups – Spoken Edition
Black Swan analyzes social media to predict which products will be successful

TechCrunch Startups – Spoken Edition

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 5, 2022 5:47


Consumer packaged goods companies — think PepsiCo or Nabisco — face steep challenges from the rising cost of living and distribution. As inflation continues unabated, consumers' disposable income isn't going as far as it used to while products are becoming more expensive to ship. The pressure is on businesses to place their bets on the […]

Indie Film Hustle's Film Festival Hacks Podcast
BONUS: How NOT to Get Screwed Over by a Distributor with John Kim

Indie Film Hustle's Film Festival Hacks Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 29, 2022 110:41


If you are a filmmaker that want to sell your movie to the marketplace then this is MUST listen to conversation. Today on the show we have John Kim, Founder and CEO of Deep C Digital Distribution.With 25+ years of sales and marketing experience, John has sold over 3,000 independent and major studio movies and TV shows to all the major digital, cable, and retail platforms. As Vice President of Digital Distribution at Paramount, he managed the Digital Sales Team and digital account relationships. Prior to this experience, he spent 10 years at Paramount and Disney managing over $1 Billion dollars of DVD/Blu-ray catalog business. Before entering the home entertainment industry, he served as a Brand Manager at Nabisco and a Marketing Director at Mattel.Recently, John co-founded with Tyler Maddox, Voices Film Foundation (VFF), a nonprofit corporation uniting all people of color in the entertainment industry. John is a graduate of Yale University and has an MBA from the Kellogg Management School of Business at Northwestern University.This is, by far, one of the most important conversations I have ever had on the show. Get ready to take notes. Enjoy my conversation with John Kim.

Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast with Alex Ferrari
IFH 591: How NOT to Get Screwed Over by a Distributor with John Kim

Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast with Alex Ferrari

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 21, 2022 110:41 Very Popular


If you are a filmmaker that want to sell your movie to the marketplace then this is MUST listen to conversation. Today on the show we have John Kim, Founder and CEO of Deep C Digital Distribution.With 25+ years of sales and marketing experience, John has sold over 3,000 independent and major studio movies and TV shows to all the major digital, cable, and retail platforms. As Vice President of Digital Distribution at Paramount, he managed the Digital Sales Team and digital account relationships. Prior to this experience, he spent 10 years at Paramount and Disney managing over $1 Billion dollars of DVD/Blu-ray catalog business. Before entering the home entertainment industry, he served as a Brand Manager at Nabisco and a Marketing Director at Mattel.Recently, John co-founded with Tyler Maddox, Voices Film Foundation (VFF), a nonprofit corporation uniting all people of color in the entertainment industry. John is a graduate of Yale University and has an MBA from the Kellogg Management School of Business at Northwestern University.This is, by far, one of the most important conversations I have ever had on the show. Get ready to take notes. Enjoy my conversation with John Kim.

Rebel Human Resources Podcast
Episode 103: Stop Employee Complacency with Len Herstein

Rebel Human Resources Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 11, 2022 47:38 Transcription Available


Len and Kyle discuss eradicating complacency in HR, management, and leadership positions, how HR teams can remain vigilant against competition and keep top talent in the face of the Great Resignation, and how better employee advocacy can encourage a more engaged team. It's not surprising that the more success and power one cultivates, the greater their chance of becoming overconfident and complacent. Author Len Herstein, who has led branding teams for huge companies such as Coca-Cola and Nabisco, has seen this scenario unfold all too often. He wrote his new book Be Vigilant: Strategies to Stop Complacency, Improve Performance, and Safeguard Success in order to aid HR professionals and management leaders in eradicating complacency and unrest in employees before it begins. He can speak to:The Danger of Success: Why past HR successes may be setting you up for future failures, and how to avoid this common scenario in a constantly evolved workplaceQuestion Everything: A key part of being vigilant is questioning everything (even things that go right) - how to brief and debrief your way to continued successThe Metrics Trap: Why the way your reading your metrics may be encouraging overconfidence, and how to gauge your performance safelyRebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.Follow Rebel HR Podcast at:www.rebelhumanresources.comhttps://twitter.com/rebelhrguyhttps://www.facebook.com/rebelhrpodcastwww.kyleroed.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the show

Paul Green's MSP Marketing Podcast
Episode 134: The 2022 marketing power of the 1922 marketing tactic

Paul Green's MSP Marketing Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 6, 2022 37:49


Episode 134 includes: Why you should start using this 100 year old marketing tool How to create 'evergreen' content for your website Plus on the show this week, the benefit of being a vigilant MSP owner Featured guest Thank you to Len Herstein, author of Be Vigilant!, for joining Paul to talk about what complacency is, why it's so dangerous  and what MSPs can do to identify and fight it. Len has over 30 years of experience in business and brand marketing. Prior to founding his marketing and events company (ManageCamp Inc.), Len innovated, managed and grew brands for major consumer packaged goods marketers, including Campbell Soup Company, Coca-Cola, and Nabisco. Since 2015, Len has served as a reserve deputy sheriff with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office in Colorado. Connect with Len on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lenherstein Show notes Out every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform Presented by Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/ https://www.paulgreensmspmarketing.com/about/ In discussing printed newsletters, Paul mentioned the 'No BS' newsletter and series of books from the direct response marketing expert Dan Kennedy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/B-S-Direct-Marketing-Non-Direct-Businesses/dp/1599185016 https://marketingsecrets.com/programs/newsletters Find out more about Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge: https://www.mspmarketingedge.com/ Right now you can watch the extended interview with this week's featured guests on the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDRSdM8tZbEBEL1Sh4Z-t3PXKbsW7b4BC To dig deeper into this episode, Paul joins Sophie Law on the complimentary YouTube show 'Another Byte', from this coming Thursday: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDRSdM8tZbEAXxJRY5vU4LWldRNLjZZng Thank you to Tony Capewell from MSP Dark Web for recommending the book Retention Point by Robert Skrob: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Retention-Point-Membership-Subscription-Associations-ebook/dp/B07CZXD289 https://uk.linkedin.com/in/tonycapewell In next week's episode, Paul will be joined by Harry Brelsford from SMB Nation to talk about how about what mergers and acquisitions might mean for MSPs in 2022: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harryb Subscribe to Paul's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing Subscribe to this podcast using

BJ Shea Daily Experience Podcast -- Official
Nabisco is selling an Oreo/Ritz mash-up.

BJ Shea Daily Experience Podcast -- Official

Play Episode Listen Later May 25, 2022 44:39


Beat Migs. Listeners on the loose. A tweeter talks about a new song with Hanson featuring a Shinedown guitarist. Ryan Castle question of the day. 

The Real News Podcast
Working People: The Tongan-American unionist on a pilgrimage to support striking workers around the US

The Real News Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 25, 2022 99:54


If you were following the strikes and labor actions that happened last year, then you may have noticed that a certain face kept popping up in photos and reports from picket lines all over the country, from the Kelloggs', Nabisco, and John Deere strikes, to the Warrior Met Coal miners caravan, to New York City. Who is this mysterious member of the Transport Workers Union making his way to states all around the US to show solidarity with workers in their different struggles? Well, it turns out that that guy is Tevita 'Uhatafe, a first-generation Tongan American, family man, rank-and-file member of the Transport Workers Union Local 513 in Dallas-Fort Worth, and vice president of the Tarrant County AFL-CIO Central Labor Council. In this episode of Working People, TRNN Editor-in-Chief Maximillian Alvarez talks with 'Uhatafe about his life, about why family has always been so important to him, about working in the airline industry, coming to the organized labor movement, and about how doing the vital solidarity work he does is such a fundamental part of who he is as a person.For more information and to read the transcript of this interview, visit: https://therealnews.com/meet-the-tongan-american-unionist-on-a-pilgrimage-to-support-striking-workers-around-the-usPre-Production/Studio: Maximillian AlvarezPost-Production: Jules TaylorHelp us continue producing radically independent news and in-depth analysis by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer: Donate: https://therealnews.com/donate-podSign up for our newsletter: https://therealnews.com/newsletter-podLike us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/therealnewsFollow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/therealnews

Working People
Tevita 'Uhatafe

Working People

Play Episode Listen Later May 21, 2022 99:54


If you were following the strikes and labor actions that were happening last year, then you may have noticed that a certain face kept popping up in photos and reports from picket lines all over the country, from the Kelloggs', Nabisco, and John Deere strikes, to the Warrior Met Coal miners caravan to New York City. Who was this mysterious member of the Transport Workers Union making his way to states all around the US to show solidarity with workers in their different struggles? Well, it turns out that that guy is Tevita 'Uhatafe, a first-generation Tongan American, family man, rank-and-file member of the Transport Workers Union Local 513 in Dallas-Fort Worth, and Vice President of the Tarrant County AFL-CIO Central Labor Council. In this episode, we talk with Tevita about his life, about why family has always been so important to him, about working in the airline industry, coming to the organized labor movement, and about how doing the vital solidarity work he does is such a fundamental part of who he is as a person. Additional links/info below... Tevita's Twitter page Tevita's PayPal (let's get Tevita to Labor Notes!): @TUhatafe  Haeden Wright's Twitter page Braxton Wright's Twitter page Haeden and Braxton's PayPal (let's get them to Labor Notes too!): @haedenwright Tarrant County Central Labor Council website, Facebook page, and Twitter page Tevita recognized for his contribution to the labor movement for Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month Maximillian Alvarez, The Real News Network, "'Twerking-class heroes: LA strippers are fighting for a union"  Permanent links below... Working People Patreon page Leave us a voicemail and we might play it on the show! Labor Radio / Podcast Network website, Facebook page, and Twitter page In These Times website, Facebook page, and Twitter page The Real News Network website, YouTube channel, podcast feeds, Facebook page, and Twitter page Featured Music (all songs sourced from the Free Music Archive: freemusicarchive.org) Jules Taylor, "Working People Theme Song

I Have Seen Niagara
Daredevils, part 2: The Nabisco Kid's Last Leap

I Have Seen Niagara

Play Episode Listen Later May 12, 2022 8:46


Legendary Niagara Falls daredevil The Nabisco Kid takes one last plunge down the mighty waterfall, this time without a barrel, head first, right into a boulder. His son must identify the body at the coroner's office, but without a map, and far from home, the Nabisco Kid's kid could be in for trouble, especially if he doesn't start dreaming! Written by Devon Fick, soundtrack by Alice Kemp. Voices: Aaron Lowinger (Coroner), Deanna Knapik (mom), Ric Royer (son), Zach Keebaugh (The Classicist)

The Food That Built America
Cookie Wars

The Food That Built America

Play Episode Listen Later May 4, 2022 21:36 Very Popular


Nabisco, the most popular cookie company, is born when an ill-fated partnership leads Adolphus Green to revolutionize packaging and create one of the most iconic cookie and cracker companies ever. But when his former partners strike back with their own invention, Green retaliates with the help of milk chocolate titan Milton Hershey. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Change on the Run
Identifying Your Lessons Learned with Kathy Repa

Change on the Run

Play Episode Listen Later May 1, 2022 31:23


Phil is joined by HR and change management expert Kathy Repa to discuss how to identify your lessons learned during change. Understanding how our experiences impact outcomes helps build change capacity and skill, and dramatically improves organizational knowledge on how projects work within our cultures.  So, how do identify, record and learn from your experiences during a large change initiative?  Kathy can be reached at: Email: kathy.shanley@yahoo.com EPISODE TRANSCRIPT PHIL: Hello everyone, welcome to the change on the run podcast, where we discuss common change challenges and ways to address them. When you're short of time, and I'm your host, Phil Buckley. Today's topic is identifying your lessons learned. Understanding how our experience impacts outcomes helps build change capacity and skill and dramatically improves organizational knowledge of how projects work within our cultures. Experience is the best teacher, which enables us to repeat success patterns and eliminate future roadblocks to achieve our goals in the quickest and most effective way. Learning occurs in the moment. Something worked or didn't work because of specific factors, and we often lose learnings we don't record quickly. This applies equally to organizations and individuals and is especially true in the middle of projects because we tend to remember only beginnings and endings, leaving the key middle ground foggy. So, how do you identify, record and learn from your experiences during a large change initiative? And my guest today is Kathy Repa. Kathy, welcome to the show. KATHY: Thank you so much for having me, I am so excited to be a guest. PHIL: Thank you, Kathy, and thanks so much for taking the time to be here. Kathy has over thirty years of global human resources and change management experience. She is currently the Vice President HR, Global Supply Chain at Mondelez International. Kathy holds a BA, Human Resources Development at DeSales University. So, Kathy, looking back at your thirty-plus year's career and we've known each other for over ten years, what's been your experience with personal lessons learned. I look at you as the queen of lessons learned and I've learned so much about how you do so just generally. What's been your experience? KATHY: You know, one of my biggest lessons, and I think your book Change on the run really triggers a lot for me, is that we run a lot when we're doing these changes. We run from one change to another. We're change junkies. It's sort of our drug of choice and we look forward to those things. What we don't take time often enough as change professionals, to take a pause and to think about what we have actually learned, what lessons we can pass on to others or what lessons we can take forward ourselves, and I think that by doing that you don't often get as much value as we possibly could from that pause for purpose, that time to refresh, that time to reflect, and I'm a huge journalizer, so I do often sit back at the end of the week and maybe as I've gotten into my twenty and thirty years of running change, I do it much more frequently to say, you know, what things went well about this and what am I most proud of and what do I want to learn from that to take forward and make sure that I incorporate in the next ones? You know what things didn't go so well, and sometimes we punish ourselves for what didn't go so well, and I like to sit back and say, well, was that in my control? Because if it's not in my control, then why would I punish myself for it not going well? Then? That's not to say I don't take that as a lesson to do something differently, but I don't sit there and beat myself up over and over again about something that wasn't in my control, but rather reflect on how I can manifest it into something that next time might be much more controllable. And then I do celebrate, even if I do a happy dance around my place by myself. You do have to pat yourself on the back, you know, because it's not that people don't recognize your value, it's just that it doesn't often come out as the thank yous that maybe you need to generate that spirit and energy to go forward. PHIL: Thanks, Kathy, and it's great to see that you reward yourself and do the happy dance. But then also learn from, hey, this didn't work so well. And why do you think people focus more on what didn't work, or at least that's been my experience personally, but also observing other people? The one thing that didn't go well in the nine things that went very well to plan. We just focus on that thing that didn't go well and replay it off and as a tape in our heads. Why do you think that happens? KATHY: Well, think about how we approach anything, in life and at work. Think about performance reviews. People focus on what didn't go well during the year and they might have a sixty-second tidbit on what went well. Our nature is to focus, unfortunately, on the downside. When business is good, you get a little bit of a rave, but when business is bad, you hear it forever and then it becomes the stories that people tell. So, it becomes a legacy of the company or the legacy of the business or the legacy of the person, and it's hard to break out of that. So, I think, as change leads, it's our job to let people know that it's okay to have things go not so well as long as we're learning from them. But what's not okay to do is to not celebrate equally the things that went well, very well, and even the things that went okay that you're able to, later on, come back to. So, make sure you don't lose those gold nuggets because future-forward, you might have an opportunity to take that to a diamond. PHIL: No, that is great. What I find fascinating is if the project was deemed as a success, so we hit our targets, the lessons learned can be really glowing and it focuses on that. Hey, we're the champions, my friend, but the ones that didn't work well, there are no good parts in it. It's all about we should have been better at this, we could have done that, we made a mistake here, and I think the impact is we're not going to learn from those good bits so we can replicate them. Have you ever seen that? KATHY: Yeah, and you know, I often reflect back to when you and I were partnering. We knew our clientele. I mean you know very well the clientele at Cadbury. I knew very well the clientele at Kraft. We needed to really sit and say what would be best for our clientele. If you remember, we went from place to place to place, leadership team to leadership team to leadership team. Each one of them brought a unique flare to what it was we were trying to do from an acquisition integration perspective. Each time we took the time to first and foremost talk to the senior-most leader and find out what the business agenda was. And then, even though we came equipped with discussion points and activities and whatever, we spent time with the members collectively and individually, and then we decided how to shape them for future-forward and align them. And then know that if you go to the next part of your journey on this massive thing that you've been asked to run and task to do, it might not be the same experience. It might be a hybrid and you have to be flexible enough to adapt that high bread and feel okay, you know, feel comfortable with that and feel okay and not just say, oh well, gosh, I didn't do it exactly like I did it with this team. So what? Because this next group isn't the same organism, and that's what we're dealing with every day, an organism, and we have to make sure that we're addressing every part of that organism in the right way. PHIL: Fascinating, and the point that you made was so important that it was co-created by going to the different teams and then sharing what the last team said to the next team and any comments on that lesson learned. KATHY: I think we gave them good things to think about. I remember one team that we went to that it was old Kraft, new Kraft, Lu Biscuit, Cadbury, and now we had some brand-new members that were already hired to be this hybrid. I think what we did was gave them things to think about, not necessarily the entire cookbook, but you know what ingredients you should go shop for, but when you bring those ingredients back, it has to be your recipe, it has to be your product that someone's going to consume. And the someone that is going to consume that is the people that work for them. It's the business that benefits by them being top of their game, and I do believe we were significantly successful. It was that we could go from place to place and we could say, hey, this is what we learned from team Australia, but we're in team South Africa now, and so team South Africa isn't team Australia. You have different people that work for the company, you have different government challenges, you have all these things, but could you think about some of these things from team Australia, because this is what they wrestled with, this is what they talked through, and now let's talk through your things. So, it was taking the legacy of the stories that we got along our journey and sharing those and having them say, do I want to take that chapter out of that book and does that make sense for the story that I'm constructing, or is my chapter completely different? PHIL: But the fact that somebody thought through it puts it in a context that I can decide how to go with it and I remember that at that time specifically where the leader said, so we get to choose. There was that ability to pick which parts will work as long as the principles are the same. Remember when we were starting we pulled together all the lessons learned from the two companies, from all the mergers, and it's some they're hard to find. They were archives somewhere, and then we distilled the learnings from both sides. But really, I think more importantly it was the list of learnings as one organization. This is it. KATHY: We presented it to the leadership team at the end. We added to that, but it really did raise a challenge I think most organizations and individuals have is once it's archived, it can often be forgotten. People change and they move. How do you break that pattern where it's go, go, go and we don't have time to find our past lessons learned, we're a new team? Let's just jump in and get busy. Yeah, I think that's an enormously important part and someone has to figure out where all those archives are when they go through this because what you get is what's the culture. Kraft was a series of acquisitions, whether it be Oscar Myer or the coffee business in Nabisco, they all came with a different culture and a different identity, and I think the most fun we had, in the beginning. It was a show storm, I brought you some chocolate, you brought me some peanut butter. We exchanged our own cultural likes and whatever it allowed us to say. You know, these companies have never fully been integrated culturally. They don't have one culture. They still have their own identities. In this, Nabisco still goes by Nabisco. We had a side. What's this new identity? What's this being of one? How do we create shared values? That then allowed us to start off as a new company. If you remember, we said A and B must equal C, and C has to have a little bit of A and a little bit of B, but it still has to be more of a future-forward where you know, A and kind of set it to the side. At some point, C becomes the being that exists. And that, I think, was a really satisfying and actually an astounding learning experience that took us several weeks to collect and then put in an order. It was worth every minute and ounce of time that we did. PHIL: Such a great experience and taking the time to do so and understanding the culture that you're working in, and especially you're insight about there are many cultures within these organizations and I wondered are there any lessons learned for people that are going through a major change? Any lessons learned about culture and how you work within it to get the outcome that you're looking for? KATHY: I think when you're going into the culture, you have to go in and make sure that you're digging into the observable and the non-observable elements. Initially and visually. You'll see, as we walked into buildings, if you remember, the personality of the entity could be what's up on the walls. It could be the way you're greeted when you walk in there. It could be the formality of the conference rooms. You know, it could be any of those things. What kills you are the invisible elements. Do we say we want to be risk-takers, but we are completely risk adverse? Do we say that we allow failure, but quite simply, if you fail, you're almost out the door? Are there cliques within the organization that have the power and run things, but they let people think and believe every now and then that they have the ability to make decisions? Those are the most dangerous elements to eventually allowing the change to take hold because if you just go in with what's on the wall, how nice the receptionist was to you, do they have a great canteen and we had wonderful lunches? The board room is absolutely stunning, you won't be able to sustain what it is that you're wanting to sustain, because as this new entity forms, it's going to trip over those land mines that were there and not discovered early enough. To create a road map around them or through them, because sometimes they'll still remain. Sometimes you won't be able to change and shift everything, but if you create a navigational map for somebody, it becomes a very powerful tool to be successful: here's another obstacle that's in front of you. So that's why exploring culture is absolutely key and making sure you don't think you just got it because you've talked to a handful of people, or you've seen it visually or you get a document that shows their values. You need to go out and ask people in the organization. Do they really tell it like it is, or do they just tell those things that you want to make sure you're discovering to the degree of discovery that allows you to help shake the path forward? PHIL: Great advice. I find it's by making mistakes and then they say, well, we really don't do this here, and it's like, oh, you know, I just found part of your culture. We don't ask tough questions in leadership meetings or whatever it might be. When I used to hire people or interview people for leadership positions, and especially after our experiences with change leadership, I'd always ask what have you learned from running or being part of a change initiative versus what have you learned, because I found they're two different things. That I maintain mandate is very different than a change growth mandate, and what I found is a lot of them would give those textbook answers. Well, it's important to support the team and just something from the latest magazine. And I'd ask the question again and I'd probe specifically about change initiatives and often times people would repeat the same answer that they had before. One's that had not learned and I think there are great leaders who have learned and sell in the answer. Why do you think leaders don't take the time to capture their lessons learned as you talked about earlier? KATHY: I think it doesn't resonate to do it. Oftentimes they get caught up and get sent on the next change. So, you're just flowing from one thing to the other. You just like set that one aside and it's off to the new adventure. It's exciting to go on a new adventure. Our change was a year, but it was so intense that after that year we were waiting for what's the new adventure? But some changes can be like two-three years and by the time you get that through, that two three year journey, you just want to set it aside and unfortunately, you miss out on not taking that time to sit back and say, you know, what did I learn from that? I also think there are changes that go on and on and on and then they reshape, and they get a new name, but it's the same thing. It just has a different name because it failed along the way, it didn't go as planned and rather than even say did it fail, or could we have taken an alternative route, rather than just scrap everything and start from scratch? I still see today, unfortunately, a lot of start from scratch, scrap what you have and not even sit and look at that and say well, what can I take forward? But restart everything. I don't think organizations have the money or the time to keep doing that. PHIL: No, certainly. And any thoughts about how you change the story where it's seen as a success behavior, it's expected by leaders. How do you build that mindset in so you don't lose those lessons learned? PHIL: I think that you have to purposely put it as part of your strategy, and you and I remember we did a big debrief at the end, but we put it as part of our strategy. We basically said we're going to have a beginning and an end to this change approach. We're going to understand what the business case is and then we're going to know how we have to address it in each country, each part of the world, and each leadership team. In the end, probably the best thing that we did was say, how did this whole thing go? We captured that, we presented it to the senior leaders, including the CEO, and we said, well, this is what we see from a cultural perspective, this is what we learned from a systems and a work processes. This is what we learned about the leadership teams, hoping that they too would do something with it. You and I consciously put those steps in there and I think until you make it a norm or obtain the value out of it, naturally, you almost have to outline your entire approach. We do often change process, but we don't always put that last step in place. PHIL: I agree, and good for the leadership team that once we got started everyone was engrossed in what we had heard, and I think it was the stories we told because we were constantly with the twenty top markets. It added color and texture to what the lessons were. But such a rare occurrence to have that happen. Kathy, you've done so many huge integrations and changes and functional shifts and you name it, you've done it. How do you capture your lessons learned? What do you do now that you might not have done thirty years ago? How do you do it? KATHY: I think I do more checkpoints in with others, in addition to my own self-reflection and reflecting with partners because I do have some wonderful partners. When I have gotten to do these things, what I have started to incorporate more is reaching out to various parts of the organization and say you know, now that we've gone through this, now that we've made this transformation, how do you feel about it? How did you feel about it when you first heard about it? How do you feel about it now? What could I have done differently, or the team of folks that were doing this? What could we have done differently that maybe would have had you on board sooner or made this a less painful process to go through? And then what, again, did we do very well that if you had to go through something else again, and we all do, you know nothing, stay stagnant, that we should make that top of mind when we go through it.? PHIL: Thank you, Kathy. And I remember after the integration, often you'd say, well, this is what I've learned because you were equal. You said, hey, this didn't go well, and this went well. I thought was a great sort of cultural map to say it's okay to criticize something you didn't think was good because I've just done it myself. And then what did you appreciate? I'm so keen to get your lessons learned. We talked about how you do it and you journal, and you reflect and then play it back and resource it. But I'm really keen for you to share some of the lessons that you have learned with a couple of big change topics. The first one I would say is what have you learned from the sponsorship aspect? The leaders that take the charge. What makes them successful sponsors? KATHY: They are so important and having the right sponsor is absolutely key. A sponsor is just not a title. So, it's not somebody who says, oh, you're going to sponsor this change initiative and you put their name on every presentation. You know when you're listening, who the folks are that are change leads. I know, by the way, Joe is our sponsor. Joe has to be significantly engaged in this process. They have to have the passion for what it is that you're trying to shift within the organization. They have to show up, they have to be there in good times and bad times. They have to help you remove the obstacles and the roadblocks. They have to really listen when you tell them what's happened and then they have to believe that because you're closest to that fact. The other thing is sponsorship does not end when your sunset the team. Sponsorship continues for a while to maintain sustainability, because if ever anybody sunsets and goes off to something else, then it kind of looks like it was just an activity. And so, when the activity ends, then so do the ones that have been waiting for the activity and the sponsors are going away to go back to where they were before. And, as we all know who's been in the change field a long time, if you don't reach that level of sustainability and operate in a new norm, you're back to where you were and the journey was for not. I think my lesson learned is who you choose as your sponsor and their engagement and then being there and in the presence of sustainability is critical for success. PHIL: What do people need to be able to change? KATHY: A couple of things, I think, one, the more that you get them to engage in changing their destiny, the more they will desire to go on the journey and adapt to change. But getting somebody to engage takes on so many different forms. So, what you would want, Phil, to look at what engagement will look like might not be the same as what I would want. So, it's understanding. How do you get this pocket of the organization engaged and what does engagement look like? But it's also not giving them false promises. So, it's not saying, hey, I want you to be engaged and so I want to listen to your point of view and get them all excited and have them think that everything they tell you is going to be part of where you go or adopted. But it is I'm selecting these ideas and I'm going to come back to you when it made sense to put something in place. But why some things didn't make sense based on the goal. So, it's that exchange with them so that they know what they had to say was valued. Even no, it wasn't used at that particular point in time, because then you validate what they said, and it's about validation, which is part of the adoption and engagement. You validated that they have something important to tell you and they're okay if you don't use it, as long as you let them know that you considered it. But if you never come back and tell them that you considered it, it's not going to happen again. It was a matter of how they could feel as if they were contributing to their own destiny absolutely and that they mattered, which is such a great point. PHIL: This is so fascinating. I'm wondering, in the spirit of Change on the Run, if you only had time to do one action to capture your personal lessons learning, what would be, that one thing that you would always do that would give you eighty percent of the results in twenty percent of the time? KATHY: What I would really do is spend the time understanding what the as-is is, make sure I know deeply what the current culture is, what the current work processes are, and what the current work environment is. Then that time they reflect. Don't short-change that step, because it is so, so important to do that before rushing into designing the to be stay because it's impossible to do something that is much more optimal if you don't know what's ineffective or not optimal today. And then the other thing is, I think before rushing the structure, changing the structure because it's so easy for somebody to get out a box chart and start moving the boxes around and think that that is going to solve all the problem if I change this reporting line or that reporting line, and eventually you have to get to the box charts and the structure. But I do think again that the areas that you should explore when before understanding the to-be state is decisions. How are decisions made today? Are they made at the lowest level possible, or is there a decision committee or is there somebody that overrules it? But decisions are so important to how an entity operates. How do we inform our people? How do we let them know what information they need to do their jobs effectively? Or don't we and then we wonder why they're not doing what we want them to do. So, that discovery on how information is shared, what information is shared, how it gets to the sources, I think is sometimes another cultural element as well that you have to discover. I always look at how are we rewarding? How are we rewarding the behaviors that we want to be there, and then, basically, how are we tending to the undesired behaviors, because I think we've all discovered that sometimes we're rewarding because, a, we don't want to have the powerful conversations or be it's just easier to manage difficult persons. We've rewarded undesirable behaviors, we give people outstanding ratings or whatever, and then one day we say this is no longer acceptable and they're shocked. So, I do think we have to see how that's done. How are their rewards and recognition system? How are the consequences dealt with for the things that you don't want to exist anymore, and maybe even have to recommend that as they go forward? The other one is do we understand, and does everybody understand, what they're being held accountable for? We go through the goal-setting process every year, but truly do they understand what it is that they do every day, what it contributes to in terms of what somebody else needs to do to be successful? What are those intersect points. I think testing that to make sure if it's just a list of goals not connected versus driving a business outcome is an important step. And then one of the last things I look at is our workforce skilled and equipped to do what we want them to do? Have we provided the right training? And training does not always mean a class. Have we provided the right coaching mechanism so that they know precisely how to do their jobs very well, or have we failed them? And that's a key component that has to shift before I do things like move the boxes around, because if I move the boxes around and I still have people ill-equipped to do their jobs or the product job profile, that what I'm rescoping, I still get the outcome that I have today, as opposed to being to do the moving. So that's what I do in looking at the as-is clearly so that even designing to-be, those elements are addressed and then I hit the structure. PHIL: Isn't it true that the to-be is the glamorous part and it's the easiest part? I would say all we have to do is move a couple of boxes and it sounds great, but, where were we starting from? And the point about decision-making, I think is such an important part, because you don't necessarily see that on paper. Thank you so much, and I'm just what are you as we close off the show today? Is there a headline comment or a watch out or a thought about capturing your personal lessons learn and how to do that well so that you can be your best during change? KATHY: Yes, I think we have to remember that this is like a road trip. Every change that we take somebody on or go through ourselves, it's a road trip. When you go on a road trip when you're taking your family and vacation. We're going on a vacation yourself and you get in the car, and you have all these things planned. You have to stop along the way, you have to stop and fill your car up with petrol, you have to get a snack, you have to, you know, just get out, walk around, stretch your legs, turn your neck, crack out all the little creaks and whatever, before getting back in that car again, you know, and continuing on the road trip. I don't know that we take enough time for those rest stops or we take the adequate time to really refresh and reignite and reflect and then be able to get back in that car for the next hour or two, or whatever it is that we are, and I've learned that, especially for us that do this a lot, you can mentally become overly exhausted to the point where you just can't think straight anymore. And I know we hear that being said, but it happens. You can become so mentally exhausting that everything just blurs into the same thing and you're not at your best and you're not contributing at your best. You can become physically ill as well because you're not taking care, you're not taking care of your whole body and your whole mental well-being. So, for me, it is so important that you have fun, and you go on this road trip, and you pick your partners on this road trip, by the way, because you want to have lots of fun. And that's why, even picking your partner on the road trips is fun, you have to help each other take that time out to rest and balance each other out, because it can be exhausting, but it also can have you miss some key indicators that you should be picking up on when you're all present. That's my biggest reflection. PHIL: Oh thanks, Kathy, and that's definitely how I felt with the two of us on the road for a solid year almost every week. So, thank you for that and thanks so much for taking the time to be on the Change on the Run podcast. I really appreciate your sharing your lessons learned and guidance, and this is going to be the first episode of the podcast where we'll include the full transcript of our conversation so people can maximize their learning from you. And how can people get in contact with you? Yes, I'm excited. I'm soon to be retiring. My email is kathy.shanley@yahoo.com. I am a change junkie, so I will have to satisfy my needs when I'm not in the aggressive business environment through the stories of others. So, I look forward to connecting with people. Thanks so much for having me. PHIL: Thanks Kathy, and thanks for being a great friend and a great partner and for the lessons that you've taught me, and thanks for your leadership, your guidance, and the humanity that you provided through change, and I know with HR as well. You set the bar really high for all of us. So, thank you and all the best for the next chapter. And thanks to our listeners, and I hope Kathy has been as much of an inspiration as she is to me. And until the next time, I wish you all the best as you continue to lead change.

The Nonlinear Library
EA - Virtue signaling is sometimes the best or the only metric we have by Holly Elmore

The Nonlinear Library

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 29, 2022 7:45


Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Virtue signaling is sometimes the best or the only metric we have, published by Holly Elmore on April 28, 2022 on The Effective Altruism Forum. Subtitle: Costly virtue signaling is an irreplaceable source of empirical information about character.The following is cross-posted from my blog, which is written for a more general audience: We all hate virtue signaling, right? Even “virtue” itself has taken on a negative connotation. When we're too preoccupied with how we appear to others, or even too preoccupied with being virtuous, it makes us inflexible and puts us out of touch with our real values and goals. But I believe the pendulum has swung too far against virtue signaling. A quality virtue signal shows that a person follows through with their best understanding of the right thing to do, and is still one of the only insights we have into others' characters and our own. I don't care to defend empty “cheap talk” signals, but the best virtue signals offer some proof of their claim by being difficult to fake. Maybe, like being vegan, they take a great deal of forethought, awareness, and require regular social sacrifices. Being vegan proves dedication to a cause like animal rights or environmentalism proportional to the level of sacrifice required. The virtuous sacrifice of being vegan isn't what makes veganism good for the animals or the environment, but it is a costly signal of character traits associated with the ability to make such a sacrifice. So the virtue signal of veganism doesn't mean you are necessarily having a positive impact or that veganism is the best choice, but it does show that you as a person are committed, conscientious, gentle, or deeply bought into the cause such that the sacrifice becomes easier for you than it would be for other people. It shows character and acting out your values. Out of your commitment to doing the most good possible, you may notice that you start to think veganism isn't actually the best way to help animals for a lot of people.1 I believe this represents a step forward for helping animals, but one problem is that now it's much easier to hide lack of virtuous character traits from measurement.2 It's harder to know where the lines are or how to track the character of the people you may one day have to decide to trust or not to trust, it's harder to support virtuous norms that make it easier for the community to act out its values, and it's harder to be accountable to yourself.Many will think that it is good when a person stops virtue signaling, or that ostentatiously refusing to virtue signal is a greater sign of virtue. But is it really better when we stop offering others proof of positive qualities that are otherwise hard to directly assess? Is it better to give others no reason to trust us? Virtue signals are a proxy for what actually matters— what we are likely to do and the goals that are likely to guide our behavior in the future. There is much fear about goodharting (when you take the proxy measure as an end in itself, rather than the thing it was imperfectly measuring) and losing track of what really matters, but we cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater. All measures are proxy measures, and using proxies is the only way to ask empirical questions. Goodharting is always a risk when you measure things, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to measure character. The cost of virtue signals can be high, and sometimes not worth it, but I submit that most people undervalue quality virtue signals. Imagine if Nabisco took the stance that it didn't have anything to prove about the safety and quality of its food, and that food safety testing is just a virtue signal that wastes a bunch of product. They could be sincere, and somehow keep product quality and safety acceptably high, but they are taking away your way of knowing...

The Nonlinear Library
LW - Virtue signaling is sometimes the best or the only metric we have by Holly Elmore

The Nonlinear Library

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 28, 2022 7:48


Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Virtue signaling is sometimes the best or the only metric we have, published by Holly Elmore on April 28, 2022 on LessWrong. Subtitle: Costly virtue signaling is an irreplaceable source of empirical information about character.The following is cross-posted from my blog, which is written for a more general audience, but I think the topic is most important to discuss here on LW. We all hate virtue signaling, right? Even “virtue” itself has taken on a negative connotation. When we're too preoccupied with how we appear to others, or even too preoccupied with being virtuous, it makes us inflexible and puts us out of touch with our real values and goals. But I believe the pendulum has swung too far against virtue signaling. A quality virtue signal shows that a person follows through with their best understanding of the right thing to do, and is still one of the only insights we have into others' characters and our own. I don't care to defend empty “cheap talk” signals, but the best virtue signals offer some proof of their claim by being difficult to fake. Maybe, like being vegan, they take a great deal of forethought, awareness, and require regular social sacrifices. Being vegan proves dedication to a cause like animal rights or environmentalism proportional to the level of sacrifice required. The virtuous sacrifice of being vegan isn't what makes veganism good for the animals or the environment, but it is a costly signal of character traits associated with the ability to make such a sacrifice. So the virtue signal of veganism doesn't mean you are necessarily having a positive impact or that veganism is the best choice, but it does show that you as a person are committed, conscientious, gentle, or deeply bought into the cause such that the sacrifice becomes easier for you than it would be for other people. It shows character and acting out your values. Out of your commitment to doing the most good possible, you may notice that you start to think veganism isn't actually the best way to help animals for a lot of people.1 I believe this represents a step forward for helping animals, but one problem is that now it's much easier to hide lack of virtuous character traits from measurement.2 It's harder to know where the lines are or how to track the character of the people you may one day have to decide to trust or not to trust, it's harder to support virtuous norms that make it easier for the community to act out its values, and it's harder to be accountable to yourself.Many will think that it is good when a person stops virtue signaling, or that ostentatiously refusing to virtue signal is a greater sign of virtue. But is it really better when we stop offering others proof of positive qualities that are otherwise hard to directly assess? Is it better to give others no reason to trust us? Virtue signals are a proxy for what actually matters— what we are likely to do and the goals that are likely to guide our behavior in the future. There is much fear about goodharting (when you take the proxy measure as an end in itself, rather than the thing it was imperfectly measuring) and losing track of what really matters, but we cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater. All measures are proxy measures, and using proxies is the only way to ask empirical questions. Goodharting is always a risk when you measure things, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to measure character. The cost of virtue signals can be high, and sometimes not worth it, but I submit that most people undervalue quality virtue signals. Imagine if Nabisco took the stance that it didn't have anything to prove about the safety and quality of its food, and that food safety testing is just a virtue signal that wastes a bunch of product. They could be sincere, and somehow keep product quality and safety acceptably high, ...

Cedarville Stories
S6:E17 | Joel Wayne

Cedarville Stories

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 27, 2022 33:22


Catalytic Spark of MovementMover and a shaker. Change agent. Growth agent. Whatever you might call Joel Wayne, lead pastor at Chapel Pointe in Hudsonville, Michigan, one thing is certain: When he steps into church leadership, God works in amazing ways to transform the culture, mission, and soul-winning of churches.Joel is a builder. He learned that quickly as a business major at the University of Georgia.  But in his first job at Nabisco, which he began at the tender age of 17, he found himself talking with co-workers more about their lives and how the bread of life could bring them hope, forgiveness, and joy.  As he has been led to three very different communities and churches during his career, Joel has focused on one goal: help people find their job and comfort and hope in Jesus Christ, not in religious traditions and routines. Jesus is the who should be the focus of our affections and attention.Joel is taking that message beyond the walls of Chapel Pointe to transform the mission and culture of churches in his community and all over the country through his Be the Church initiative. Joel wants to help the church move beyond territorial ministry pursuits to become one body proclaiming the transforming power of the Gospel.With that in mind, Cedarville's Transformed Tour will be making a stop in Hudsonville on May 11, 2022. Joel, who is a member of the Board of Trustees, sees in Cedarville a similar desire to make much of Christ in everything we do, and to follow Him in making a movement of disciples reaching the world.“I believe that Be the Church and Cedarville University is called to be a catalytic spark of renewal and revival through the Holy Spirit,” he shares during the podcast. “Pray for the school to experience that catalytic spark and to be a catalytic spark of movement that is greater than anything we've known before.”………..Joel is a frequent chapel speaker, having spoken most recently on March 16, 2022, on Hebrews 5.

The Remarkable Leadership Podcast
How to Stop Complacency and Improve Performance with Len Herstein

The Remarkable Leadership Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 27, 2022 37:13


Are you successful? Do you know that success can lead to complacency? Complacency can decrease productivity, create mistakes, and impact the bottom line – it costs money. Len Herstein sits down with Kevin to discuss the dangers of complacency and why vigilance enables us to remain successful. Self-awareness is a start. When we become predictable, either personally or in our organizations, it becomes easier for a competitor to take over. We need to be strategically unpredictable and develop habits that minimize overconfidence. Key Points Len Herstein discusses complacency vs. vigilance and how we notice if we are becoming overconfident. He shares the OODA loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act). He talks about metrics and unintended consequences. Meet Len Name: Len Herstein His Story: Len is the author of Be Vigilant! Strategies to Stop Complacency, Improve Performance, and Safeguard Success. He is on a mission to empower organizations and individuals to protect the success they've worked so hard to achieve. Len has a 30+ year history in business, marketing, and entrepreneurism–working in brand marketing for Coca-Cola, The Campbell Soup Company, and Nabisco before founding Manage Camp (a business conference producer). Worth Mentioning: In 2015, Len answered a higher calling to public service when he became a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy in Douglas County, Colorado, where he works up to 850 hours a year as a state-certified peace officer on the patrol team – for free. Len quickly realized he was learning valuable lessons through his law enforcement training that applied directly back to his business. The most important lesson, and one of the very first he learned, was the concept that complacency kills, and vigilance saves This episode is brought to you by… The Daily Email, daily inspiration for leaders sent Monday-Friday every week. Kevin writes a short message to inform, inspire, engage, and focus you on becoming the best you and the best leader you can be. Book Recommendations Be Vigilant!: Strategies to Stop Complacency, Improve Performance, and Safeguard Success. Your Business and Relationships Depend on It by Len Herstein I'll Be Back by Shep Hyken Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans by David Meerman Scott and Reiko Scott Related Podcast Episodes Building a Peak Performance Organization with Chris McGoff. From Suck to Success with Todd Palmer. What it Means to be a 100x Leader with Jeremie Kubicek .

Carole Baskins Diary
2017-02-06 Carole Baskin's Diary

Carole Baskins Diary

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 23, 2022 2:12


Gift Shop, Bobcat Rehab and Feeding Volunteer Expansion Projects On May 15, 2016 I purchased a 48 x 72 foot, 1996 MH from Marty at AAA that had previously been a TECO office, for 42,000.00 It's purpose is to replace the 1200 SF Gift Shop so we can use the old Gift Shop for tour staging, inside in the A/C. Today it's getting new A/C and Victor Alonzo has been working for a week to pull out all of the rotted, moldy, walls and ceilings so we can replace and repair. I estimate that we will have 100k in it when done, but to build it would have been three times that. On June 28, 2016 we began our Bobcat Rehab expansion. That's turned out to be a $345,000.00 project that will give us 8 cages when done. We are about half way done with Cage #4 right now and will try these out for a while to be sure we like them. On Sept 28, 2016 I purchased a mobile home from Marty at AAA to put on the lot right outside our back gate where the little single wide called The Goose House sits. In Feb. 2017 I finally got AAA to move the Goose House to the side of Food Prep for Gale to use as a new Keeper Cafe, but the county is still jerking us around on permitting the new MH on the old site of the Goose House. I bought a lot of lots and trailers on Meadowview last year. Four at one time from one owner and a few others. Those projects are all going on now too, but the ones above have been my priority. That and webcams… Today one of our viewers snapped this of me, from the webcam I was trying to position out on Nabisco and Mrs Claws. Not enough signal though, so it's on Moses Bobcat for now. Hi, I'm Carole Baskin and I've been writing my story since I was able to write, but when the media goes to share it, they only choose the parts that fit their idea of what will generate views. If I'm going to share my story, it should be the whole story. The titles are the dates things happened. If you have any interest in who I really am please start at the beginning of this playlist: http://savethecats.org/ I know there will be people who take things out of context and try to use them to validate their own misconception, but you have access to the whole story. My hope is that others will recognize themselves in my words and have the strength to do what is right for themselves and our shared planet. You can help feed the cats at no cost to you using Amazon Smile! Visit BigCatRescue.org/Amazon-smile You can see photos, videos and more, updated daily at BigCatRescue.org Check out our main channel at YouTube.com/BigCatRescue Music (if any) from Epidemic Sound (http://www.epidemicsound.com) This video is for entertainment purposes only and is my opinion. Closing graphic with permission from https://youtu.be/F_AtgWMfwrk  

Technically Correct
Episode 312: #RealMagic

Technically Correct

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 14, 2022 75:55


Mimosa flavored Oreos. You can have that one for free, Nabisco. This week: rotisserie chicken Sabermetrics, bad French accents, and Ryan tastes the Orion nebula.

The Daily Article
"Oreos Gone Woke": Nabisco produces gay-affirming movie

The Daily Article

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 12, 2022 8:34


Nabisco, Oreo's parent company, has released a gay-affirming short film—another example of the escalation of unbiblical sexual morality in American culture. However, God is still using Christians to change the culture, like Masters winner Scottie Sheffler who said, after his win, "My identity isn't a golf score." In The Daily Article for April 12, 2022, Dr. Jim Denison also looks at the brilliant mind of Jesus, the power of the Holy Spirit, and how Christians can change the culture today. Author: Dr. Jim Denison Narrator: Chris Elkins Subscribe: http://www.denisonforum.org/subscribe

Your Brain on Facts
Tax and Taxonomy (ep. 188)

Your Brain on Facts

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 22, 2022 34:36


(Get Surfshark VPN at https://surfshark.deals/MOXIE - Enter promo code MOXIE for 83% off and 3 extra months free!) T-shirt for Ukraine, all proceeds and matching donation to Ukraine Red Cross at yourbrainonfacts.com/merch Who you gonna believe -- me or your lying eyes?  Today we look at court cases where people try to avoid taxes by arguing that things aren't the things that they clearly are. 00:50 Tomato 08:18 Jaffa Cakes 17:48 Hydrox vs Oreo 37:40 X-Men Links to all the research resources are on the website. Hang out with your fellow Brainiacs.  Reach out and touch Moxie on Facebook, Twitter,  or Instagram.  Become a patron of the podcast arts! Patreon or Ko-Fi.  Or buy the book and a shirt. Music: Kevin MacLeod,  Want to start a podcast or need a better podcast host?  Get up to TWO months hosting for free from Libsyn with coupon code "moxie."   We like labels, as humans we like labeling things.  Taxonomy is the branch of science concerned with classification and there used to be several inconsistent and sometimes conflicting systems of classification in use.  Then came Carl Linneaus and his influential “Systema Naturae” in 1735, laying down the system we use to this day.  Linnaeus was the first taxonomist to list humans as a primate, though he did classify whales as fish. Years later, a New York court agreed with him.  My name's… D&D Stats Explained With Tomatoes Strength is being able to crush a tomato. Dexterity is being able to dodge a tomato. Constitution is being able to eat a bad tomato. Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad. Charisma is being able to sell a tomato based fruit salad.   TOMATOES So that's more clear, but it raises a rather mad –and for some, maddening– question: Is the tomato a fruit or a vegetable?  Well, yes, it's both, but actually no.  Botanically, it's a fruit. But legally, it's not.  A fruit is technically the seed-bearing structure of a plant whereas a vegetable can be virtually any part of the plant we eat.     Things must have been slow in March of 1893, because this definition was set by the Supreme Court.  The issue at hand was tariffs, specifically a 10% tariff on the import of vegetables into the United States.  Just veggies.  Imported fruits were not.  This was of particular interest to John Nix of Manhattan.  He ran a produce wholesale business along with his four sons and found himself the proud owner of an enormous tax bill on a shipment of Caribbean tomatoes.  John Nix & Co. were one of the largest sellers of produce in New York City at the time, and one of the first companies to bring the Empire state produce from such far-flung places as Florida and Bermuda.  Nix disputed the tax on the grounds that tomatoes were scientifically-supportably fruit.  Full of seeds, ain't they?  That's the part that seems to turn grown adults into fussy toddlers when their burger has a tomato despite their very clear instructions.  Worse than the anti-pickle crowd.  Anyway, Nix filed a suit against Edward L. Hedden, Collector of the Port of New York, to get back the tax money he'd been forced to pay under protest.    The crux of Nix's case was the opening of an uninspired speech -  counsel read the definitions of the words "fruit," "vegetables," and tomato from Webster's Dictionary, Worcester's Dictionary, and the Imperial Dictionary.  Judgment for the plaintiff, case closed!  But wait, there's more.  Not to be outdone, defendant's counsel then read into evidence the Webster's definitions of the words pea, eggplant, cucumber, squash, and pepper.  Oh, it's on now! Countering this, the plaintiff then read in the definitions of potato, turnip, parsnip, cauliflower, cabbage, carrot and bean.  That's when, I assume, all hell broke loose in the courtroom and perhaps a giant musical number broke out.  Just trying to jazz it up a bit.  Nix's side called two witnesses, not botanists or linguists, but men with a lot of years in the fruit & veg business, to say whether these words had "any special meaning in trade or commerce, different from those read."   The supreme court decided to look more practically and less pedantically at the situation and ruled that it's how a tomato is used that makes it a vegetable, not the official scientific definition.  If people cook and eat them like vegetables, then vegetables they must be, and so they were subject to the tariff.  “Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas,” wrote Justice Horace Gray in his 1893 opinion. “But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables.”     What was really important about Nix's case was the timing.  We're talking late Victorian, after the age of sail had been obviated by the steam power of the industrial revolution.  You might have heard about it, it was in all the papers.  Ships could now cross the Atlantic in 1-2 weeks, rather than the 6-12 weeks it took in a century prior.  Foods from the tropics could now reach New England in a week or less, making their import a viable option.  This was when bananas went from being expensive oddity to must-have trend to staple of every grocery store, though that was the Gros Michelle banana, the one our fake banana flavor is based on, not the Cavendish banana we eat today, but that's a topic for another show.  To service the evolving tastes of urban population, a new class of national wholesalers, such as the Nixes, were born.   The tomato's identity crisis was far from settled, though.  In 1937, the League of Nations, precursor to the UN, sought to classify various goods for the purpose of tariffs and they too labeled tomatoes a veggie, putting them under the heading of “vegetables / edible plants / roots and tubers.”  Not to be left out, the U.S. Department of Agriculture agreed, citing 1890s Nix v. Hedden case.    But there are always exceptions, hold-outs, outliers, and just plain contrarians.  Tennessee and Ohio made the tomato their state fruit.  If you think that's silly, you might want to swallow your coffee before I tell you the state vegetable of Oklahoma is the watermelon.  I did not care to look into their reasoning.  The European Union went a step further with a directive in December 2001 classifying tomatoes as fruit — along with rhubarb, carrots, sweet potatoes, cucumbers, pumpkins and melons.  It's bad enough all prepackaged fruit bowls have some form of melon in them (which causes me instantaneous reverse peristalsis), but it you gave me a fruit salad and it had cucumbers in it, I have a parking lot and I'll fight you in it.   But I think I'll give the last word to George Ball of the Burpee's seed and plant company: “Are [tomatoes] fruits? Of course,” he said. “Are they vegetables? You bet.”  Though Burpee's does put “vegetable” on the seed packet, so maybe it's not settled after all. JAFFA CAKES Maybe things that grow are too ephemeral for man's taxonomy.  Things are a lot of simpler when we're talking about man-made goods, things that don't grow on trees, and it is only a tragedy that you can't plant an entire orchard of Jaffa cake trees.  For those whose life has not yet contained this job, a Jaffa cake it a little round of dense yellow cake –sponge, as they say in the home counties– with a disc of orange jelly on top enrobed in chocolate.  It.  Is.  So. Good.  You can sometimes find them in big grocery stores like Kroger and Publix if they have a large enough “International” aisle stock Branston pickle along with pad thai sauce and Tajin.   This issue here it again taxes, but this time VAT.  For those that don't speak British, VAT or  Value-Added Tax is “A type of consumption tax that is placed on a product whenever value is added at a stage of production and at final sale.”  Basically sales tax cranked to 11.  VAT is a tax that is paid by everyone involved with the manufacture of a given object or foodstuff, as well as the consumer.  As I go to air, the VAT rate in the UK is 20%.  If you're a UK-based widget-maker, you pay VAT on the price of the raw materials.  When you sell the widgets wholesale to a store, the retailer pays VAT on that sale.  Then, when someone comes into the shop to buy one of your cutting-edge widgets, they pay VAT too.       As with most areas of life, there are exceptions –  a number of things are subjected to a reduced 5% rate and some things are exempt altogether.  The exceptions are for the really necessary things, like mobility aids, menstrual hygiene products, stamps, end of life care, and most food, including cake.  That's some grade A foreshadowing right there.  But some foods are just so wonderful, they absolutely must be taxed and taxed fully.  Such luxury items include alcohol, mineral water, confectioneries and, with the specificity that all governments seem to love, chocolate-covered biscuits.  Regular biscuits are apparently basic essentials.  No, American listeners, not like buttermilk biscuits, because even I'd have to think twice about covering one of those in chocolate.  Whereupon I would do it.  I could make that work.  You're talking to the chick that made a startling good roasted garlic and parmesan ice cream.  No, British biscuits are cookies.  And British listeners, don't at me on soc meds with the definition of biscuit, because you know you're not consistent with it.  The only word that's more confusing is pudding.  Is that a dessert course, a sausage made of 80% blood, a flambeed Christmas dessert, or a suet dough stuffed with beef and veggies and steamed for eight hours?  While I'm on British language, Cockney rhyming slang has got to be the worst thing…   The McVities company had a notion otherwise.  They appealed, prompting a Customs and Exchange VAT tribunal.  Jaffa cakes, they said, shouldn't be taxed at the “most food” 20% rate, but at the 5% rate of chocolate-covered biscuits.  It takes a lot of brass to make that claim when you yourself named the product Jaffa *cakes. [tiktok] origin story] According to the website for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, the court first had to establish a legal definition of what made a cake a cake and what makes a biscuit a biscuit, before determining which column Jaffa Cakes belonged in.  Jaffa Cakes were assessed using the following criteria: The product name, ingredients, texture, structure of the product, the size, how the product is sold, and how the product is marketed.   Towards this end, the main arguments on behalf of the office of Customs and Excise were that Jaffa Cakes are the approximate size and shape of biscuits, are stocked on the shelves with the biscuits, and, owing in no small part to McVities' own marketing, people eat them in the sort of contexts biscuit are eaten.    McVities countered by stating that Jaffa Cakes are baked in the manner of cake and of the same base ingredients.  Their master stroke was staleness – cakes go hard as they stale and biscuits go soft.  When Jaffa cakes go stale, and it's hard to imagine them sitting there long enough, they go hard.  McVities actually let a bunch of them out to go stale and brouhght them into court as evidence.  And in a legal tactic I'd like to see more often, McVities baked a big ol' 12-inch version of a Jaffa Cake, to show that if you blew it up to the size of a normal cake, it would just be a cake.    If I were on the other side of it, I might make a big deal over the name, but the judge presiding over the case, Mr D.C Potter, ruled that to be of “no serious relevance” because a product's name often has little to do with its actual function.  In the end, the court decided the Jaffa Cake was, in fact, a cake, and the Irish Revenue Commissioners agreed, though their ruling was based on the Jaffa Cakes' moisture content being greater than 12%.  So no VAT on Jaffa cakes, which means we can buy more of them, hooray!   HYDROX VS OREO In 1882, the entrepreneur Jacob Loose bought a biscuit and candy company that would eventually be known as Sunshine Biscuits, the company that would eventually give us Cheez-its, which my ex-husband went through at least a box of a week, dipping in port wine cheese spread.  About as close as he ever got to a balanced diet.  In 1908, launched the cream-filled chocolate sandwich biscuit known as Hydrox.  The name, he thought, would be reminiscent of sparkling sunlight and evoked an impression of cleanliness (probably because it sounds like a disinfectant).  This was after all only a few years after the Pure Food and Drug Act, before which your canned veggies might be full of borax and your milk be a watered down concoction of chalk dust and cow brains, and you wouldn't know.  Some tellings have it that Hydrox is a portmanteau of hydrogen and oxygen, the elements that make up water, the gold standard of purity.  Meanings aside, the fact that there actually was a Hydrox Chemical Company in business at the time, one that sold hydrogen peroxide and was caught up in a trademark lawsuit at the time over the use of the word “hydrox,” should have given them a hint to maybe go back to committee.  Hydrox chemicals lawsuit, btw, pointed out that the word “hydrox” was already in use for such disparate things as coolers, soda, and ice cream, so maybe Jacob Loose figured the word is out there, might as well use it.   For four years, Hydrox cookies with their lovely embossed flower design made cash registers ring for Sunshine Biscuits.  Then, 90 years almost to the day of this episode dropping, the National Biscuit Company came along –you probably know them by their shortened name, Nabisco– with the launch of three different cookies, the Mother Goose biscuit, the Veronese biscuit, both now lost to history, and the Oreo.  The cookies were very similar, with Oreos even being embossed by the same time of production machine, but Hydrox have a sweeter filling and less-sweet cookie.  Like VHS vs beta, which you can learn more about in the book and audiobook, the newcomer soon came to dominate the landscape, and there's no clear reason why.  Any chocolate sandwich biscuit is offhandedly called an Oreo, no matter how cheap a replica it may be.  It's literally the best-selling cookie in the world now, with $3.28 billion in sales in the U.S. alone.  They sell 92 million cookies per day throughout 100-plus countries under the parent brand Mondelez International.  That ubiquity has led a lot of people to erroneously assume that Oreo is the original and Hydrox is the Mr. Pibb to their Dr. Pepper.  Hydrox did manage to hold onto a cadre of die-hards, especially in areas with significant Jewish populations, because Hydrox were always kosher.  Oreo cream used to be made with lard from pigs and Nabisco would later have to invest a lot of resources into replacing the lard with shortening in the 90's.     Sunshine Biscuits was purchased by Keebler in 1996, who replaced Hydrox with a reformulated product called "Droxies," which 100% sounds like drug slang for a veterinary tranquilizer.  Keebler was acquired by Kellogg's in 2001, and Kellogg's yanked Droxies from the shelves before adding a similar chocolate sandwich cookie to the Famous Amos brand, then discontinued them.  In August 2008, on the cookie's 100th anniversary, Kellogg's resumed distribution of Hydrox under the Sunshine label, a limited distribution, one and done.  Hydrox-heads besieged Kellogg's with phone calls and an online petition, asking that Hydrox be brought back for good, but all for naught.  Less than a year later Kellogg's had removed Hydrox from their website.  “This is a dark time in cookie history,” one Hydrox partisan, Gary Nadeau, wrote, according to the Wall Street Journal. “And for those of you who say, ‘Get over it, it's only a cookie,‘ you have not lived until you have tasted a Hydrox.”  As of the time of writing, I've never had one myself, but I'll see if I can't lay my hands on some before going to air.   Getting my hands on some may be a touch trickier than it should be.  They exist; that's not the issue.  In 2015, entrepreneur Ellia Kassoff, a lover of Hydrox who knew the trick to getting a trademark someone else had allowed to lapse, was able to pick up Hydrox for his own company, Leaf Brands—itself a dormant brand that Kassoff had revived.  Hip to the time, Leaf Brands made Hydrox available on Amazon, so anyone anywhere could get them whenever they wanted (plus two days for delivery).  These new Hydrox weren't going to bow gracefully to the dominant Oreo.  Their website points out that they use real cane sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup, and no hydrogenated oils, artificial flavors, and GMOs, and warn consumers, "don't eat a knock-off!"  Hydrox are also made in the USA while Mondelez International was laying off U.S. workers.  Sales of Hydrox grew by 2,406 percent from 2016 to 2017, amassing more than $492,000 in sales — clearly, still light-years away from Oreo's overwhelming dominance in the market, but impressive progress nonetheless.   If you ask Leaf Brands, they'd be doing a lot better if not for Mondelez – not out-competing them, deliberately sabotaging them.  This is the hard-to-find bit I alluded to.  In August 2018, Leaf Brands filed a lawsuit against Mondelez International, seeking $800 million in damages because of "lost sales and reputation.”  The charges claimed that Mondelez was using its massive industry muscle "to place their own products in favorable locations in stores and move competitors in less desirable positions on store shelves."  On their Facebook page, you can see pictures of grocery stores where Hydrox cookies are hidden behind other displays, scooted to the back of shelves, and even turned sideways so the short end is facing out.  If you've never worked grocery retail, your instinct may be to blame the store staff, but a lot of brands are actually stocked by the manufacturer.  Ever pass a guy in a Pepsi polo shirt with hand-truck loaded with soda?  That, but with cookies.  And it's not just their own products.  Mondelez is what's called a “category captain,” meaning they get to determine much of the layout for the whole cookie aisle.  Leaf alleges that Mondelez employees and agents are deliberately making Hydrox harder to find while making Oreos pert near impossible to miss.   This is far from the first lawsuit over Oreos.  A class action lawsuit was filed claiming the cookies misled buyers by stating that the product contains real cocoa.  The judge dismissed the case.  And they were sued for Fudge Covered Mint Oreos not containing any actual fudge.  The plaintiffs claim that these cookies don't contain any milkfat from dairy, a key component of fudge, but rather cheaper palm and palm kernel oil.  As so often happens, there are eleventy-hundred articles from the week the case was filed and nothing on the outcome.  That's what happened with the main point of this article.  I was dead sure I remembered Hydrox and Oreo going to court over the basic infringement question, and Hydrox losing, but I couldn't turn up anything on that because of the sabotage lawsuit sucking up all the search results.   X-MEN It's not all foodie fact fun today.  I'm going to risk a copyright strike to play 15 seconds of a song that will make everyone near me in age go “aw yeah!” [sfx Xmen theme]  For the young or those who had social lives in high school, that's the theme song to the 90's Xmen cartoon, and it slaps, as they kids used to say.  For the truly uninitiated, and c'mon even my mom knows who the Xmen are, the story centers on a group of superheroes who get their powers from genetic mutations…and government experiments, time travel, by dint of being aliens – it's a comic book, what do you want.   Ever since their introduction to the Marvel Universe in 1963, the X-Men have always had to deal with questions about their humanity.  While their enemies will stop at nothing to cast them as monsters, the team continues to fight for a world where they are treated just like humans.  That's in-universe.  In the broader reality, it's actually in the X-Men's best interest not to be considered humans.  Well, Marvel comics financial bottom line, anyway, and they went to court over it.   In 1993, international trade lawyers Sherry Singer and Indie Singh found an interesting provision in a book of federal tariff classifications – “dolls” are taxed at 12% on import while “toys” are only taxed 6.8%.  The devil is in the details, or in this case, the definition.  A “toy” can be any shape, representing any thing, but a "doll" can only be a representation of a human being, like Barbie or GI Joe.  [tik tok Joe's thumbnail]  Singer and Singh knew this distinction could be a sizable financial benefit for their client, Marvel Entertainment, who had an ownership stake in ToyBiz at the time.  For years, Marvel had been importing action figures that were taxed as dolls, despite their wide panoply of brightly colored characters often being anything but human.  Taking a direct approach, the two lawyers gathered up a literal bag full of action figures and went to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection headquarters in Washington, D.C. to try and convince them that Marvel wasn't importing humanlike “dolls,” but instead very non-human “toys.”   The Customs staff's reaction to the bag of toys is not recorded, but their official response was that the “non-human characteristics” of the X-Men and other action figures “fall far short of transforming [these figures] into something other than the human beings which they represent.”  Singer and Singh were locked onto this tactic and pursued it for a decade.  A judge considered various figures from Marvel's whole line to decide whether or not individual characters were human or not.  Rippling pecs, long claws, blue skin, red eyes, all were scrutinized, as lawyers on both sides expostulated on the philosophical ramifications of what it means to be human.  How can these action figures be human if they have "tentacles, claws, wings, or robotic limbs?"     I'd loved to have been there to hear people with expensive educations in tailored suits, stand before a learned jurist in a wood-paneled courtroom and say things like,  "The figure of 'Kingpin' resembles a man in a suit carrying a staff. Nothing in the storyline indicates that Kingpin possesses superhuman powers.  Yet, Kingpin is known to have exceedingly great strength (however 'naturally' achieved) and the figure itself has a large and stout body with a disproportionately small head and disproportionately large hands. Even though 'dolls' can be caricatures of human beings, the court is of the opinion that the freakishness of the figure's appearance coupled with the fabled 'Spider-Man' storyline to which it belongs does not warrant a finding that the figure represents a human being."   In 2003, Judge Judith Barzilay ruled that Marvel characters aren't quite human enough to taxed as dolls.  “They are more than (or different than) humans. These fabulous characters use their extraordinary and unnatural physical and psychic powers on the side of either good or evil. The figures' shapes and features, as well as their costumes and accessories, are designed to communicate such powers."   Yay, a victory for the giant multimillion dollar corporation!  But a slap in the face for diehard X-Men fans.  Chuck Austen, one of the writers for Uncanny X-Men at the time, said his whole goal in the story was to show the team's humanity.  The nerds grew restless and Marvel had to issue a statement that read, "Don't fret, Marvel fans, our heroes are living, breathing human beings—but humans who have extraordinary abilities ... A decision that the X-Men figures indeed do have 'nonhuman' characteristics further proves our characters have special, out-of-this world powers." And that's… To protect the public from contaminated oil, New York State law required that all fish oil be gauged, inspected and branded, with a penalty of $25 per barrel on those who failed to comply.  Samuel Judd purchased three barrels of whale oil that had not been inspected, and James Maurice, a fish oil inspector, sought to collect the penalty from him.  Judd pleaded that the barrels contained whale oil, not fish oil, and so were not subject to the fish oil legislation. At trial, one side said the term "fish oil" was commonly understood to include whale oil, and the other side plead the obvious science that whales are mammals.  The jury deliberated for 15 minutes and returned a verdict in favor of the fish oil inspector.    Mr. Judd, dissatisfied with the verdict, moved for a new trial. By then, the Legislature was in session and the Recorder, knowing that a new fish oil bill was pending, delayed his decision on the motion. The new enactment limited the inspection to fish liver oil, and the Recorder took the view that this implicitly confirmed that the earlier legislation covered whale oil. Accordingly, he refused to grant Judd's motion for a new trial.   James Maurice resigned his position as fish oil inspector because he considered that the position under the new law had too little value or importance.     Sources: https://www.constantpodcast.com/episodes/are-whales-fish https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/12/26/256586055/when-the-supreme-court-decided-tomatoes-were-vegetables https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/18/the-obscure-supreme-court-case-that-decided-tomatoes-are-vegetables/ https://www.insider.com/interesting-facts-about-oreo-2018-7#oreo-first-appeared-on-the-market-in-1912-1 https://www.mashed.com/223360/the-strange-history-of-the-oreo-and-hydrox-cookie-rivalry/ https://www.mashed.com/702384/why-this-snack-food-giant-is-being-sued-over-an-oreo-flavor/?utm_campaign=clip http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/10/time-company-baked-giant-cake-win-court-case/  https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/read-this/is-a-jaffa-cake-a-cake-or-a-biscuit-heres-the-definitive-answer-as-decided-by-a-court-1379222 https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/92007/why-us-federal-court-ruled-marvels-x-men-arent-humans https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/9/12/20862474/x-men-series-toys-human-legal-issue-marvel-comics https://observer.com/2007/12/thar-she-blows-19thcentury-court-case-harpoons-a-whale-of-a-story/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_v._Hedden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtpJFEBcKoE

The Success Ascent
The Secret to Avoiding Complacency

The Success Ascent

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 8, 2022 34:04


Len Herstein knows the danger of complacency. He just wishes he had known earlier. He is the author of Be Vigilant! Strategies to Stop Complacency, Improve Performance, and Safeguard Success. Your Business and Relationships Depend on It, he's on a mission to empower organizations and individuals to safeguard the success they've worked so hard to achieve. Len has a 30+ year history in business, marketing, and entrepreneurism. Before founding ManageCamp Inc and producing 19 annual iterations of the world-acclaimed Brand ManageCamp marketing conference, Len worked in brand marketing and innovation for Coca-Cola, The Campbell Soup Company, and Nabisco. In 2015, Len answered a higher calling to public service when he became a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office in Colorado. It wasn't long before Len realized he was learning valuable lessons through his law enforcement training that could be applied directly back to his business. The most important lesson, and one of the very first he learned, was the concept that complacency kills and vigilance saves. Len has developed actionable strategies to help business leaders stop complacency, improve performance, and safeguard success through vigilance. Here's What We Cover Micro failures Fail fast and fail cheap Overvaluing existing relationships It always takes more time and effort than you think Focus on building relationships beyond the transactions Giving before asking for business Approaching relationships with a selfless point of view Fighting complacency  Survivorship bias Vigilance is about awareness Strategies to overcome complacency  The concept of it's all about them Connect With Len https://lenherstein.com/ (Website) https://www.facebook.com/LenHerstein (Facebook) https://www.linkedin.com/in/lenherstein/ (LinkedIn)

OldGuyTalksToMe
115. CBDs Not All Equal Doug Weekes kadenwoodbrands.com

OldGuyTalksToMe

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 8, 2022 42:03


Doug Weekes has been in the consumer products industry for 25 years. He spent most of his early career working for Nabisco and Kraft Foods and Henkel, a German consumer products company. Doug has managed brands ranging from LifeSavers, Starbucks, Maxwell House, Capri Sun, Dial, Right Guard, and Core Water. Doug co-founded Kadenwood in 2019 to create and bring to market exceptionally high-quality brands using CBD as a key ingredient. Kadenwood was formed in 2019 to create high-quality consumer brands using CBD (cannabidiol) as a key ingredient. Brands today include Level Select, Social CBD, Healist, Purity Organic, and Purity Pet. Kadenwood sells its brands at many of the largest retailers across the US as well as via its own website for direct to consumer sales Level Select CBD Offer: 30% off Level Select CBD Shop: levelselectcbd.com Code: SAVE30 ➡️Have you seen my latest video:

The History of...
54. OREOginality is Overrated

The History of...

Play Episode Play 29 sec Highlight Listen Later Feb 4, 2022 10:32


Oreos are not quite what you think. To be remembered, one either has to be the first or the best, and Oreo didn't check both those boxes. The one that did is a cookie you've probably never even heard of.If you would like to donate research to "The History of..." or send a donation note please contact me at thehistoryof365@gmail.com.Click to donate here.Click here for the merch.Resources:Good SourceAnother Good SourceWow! Another Source!About Oreos Following the NewsBuy HydroxMusic by Medeski, Martin & Wood, Jordyn Edmonds, and 20syl

Following the Gong, a Podcast of the Schreyer Honors College at Penn State
FTG 0017 - Latte Lessons and Alumni Leadership with La Colombe Food Scientist & Scholar Alumni Society President Natalie Keller ‘17

Following the Gong, a Podcast of the Schreyer Honors College at Penn State

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 1, 2022 52:27 Transcription Available


This episode will be of interest for Scholars who are interested in food science and product development generally. It'll also be of interest to those who like baking or coffee, and those who are in a STEM major but love the arts too. It's also great for alumni who are interested in getting more involved as volunteers. Guest Bio: Natalie Keller '17 Agricultural Sciences is a Food Scientist at La Colombe Coffee Roasters in Philadelphia, where she works on recipes for canned coffees, bag-in-box, and other product formats. Before joining La Colombe in September 2021, she spent four years at Mondelez International developing new cookies for major Nabisco brands. She earned a BS in Food Science with Honors from Penn State's College of Agricultural Sciences in 2017. She also currently serves as the President of the Scholar Alumni Society. Natalie is happy to speak further about careers in the food and CPG industries, finding internships, volunteering, or what makes a good cup of coffee. Feel free to connect with her at linkedin.com/natalierkeller. Episode Specifics: In this episode, Natalie shares her insights on: · Getting the right cup of coffee to enjoy with the episode · Translating high school interests into your major at Penn State and choosing the Schreyer Honors College community · Getting involved in Schreyer Student Council to acclimate to the College · Pursuing undergraduate research and internships as a Scholar · Putting science into action in a food production setting – and translating that to a full-time job · The value of the London Study Tour, aka, the “Maymeseter” trip, regardless of major · Writing a thesis with a microbiology focus that contributes to the food safety body of knowledge – and learning even from not positive results · The art and science of developing new food products, from cookies to coffee · The product development cycle and the balance between R&D and Marketing · The differences in working on large teams at large companies and small teams at small firms · Learning from staff at all parts of the company · Going from Job #1 to Job #2 and leveraging your experience and transferable skills along the way · Getting involved as an alumni volunteer with the Honors College and paying it forward to current Scholars · The value of dancing in THON, particularly for the Schreyer Student Council · Taking advantage of opportunities for intellectual curiosity and understanding the why · The reward of networking – even if you don't know what you're doing ----- Schreyer Honors College Links: • Website • Facebook • Twitter • Instagram • LinkedIn • Upcoming Events • Scholars – Need Assistance? Book an Appointment! • Alumni – Learn Why and How to Volunteer • Make a Gift to Benefit Schreyer Scholars • Join the Penn State Alumni Association ----- Credits & Notes: This content is available in text form here. This show is hosted, produced, and edited by Sean Goheen ‘11 Lib (Schreyer). The artwork was created by Tom Harrington, the College's Web Developer. The sound effect is “Chinese Gong,” accessed via SoundBible used under Creative Commons License. The theme music is “Conquest” by Geovane Bruno, accessed via Pixabay and used under Creative Commons License.

The Catalyst Effect with Rich Keller
8 strategies that will turn a product or service into a brand!

The Catalyst Effect with Rich Keller

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 13, 2022 17:55


I spent 25 years as a brand marketing executive at Nabisco, Kraft Foods, Cadbury, and Godiva. Throughout my career, I crafted identities, using just ‘One Word', for some of the world's most iconic brands such as Planters, Chips Ahoy!, Dentyne, and Godiva. In these episodes, I will challenge listeners to think differently about the brands they interact with every day by showing how their ‘One Word' core value helps them break through the clutter and stand-out. Let's listen to today's brand topic… 8 STRATEGIES THAT WILL TURN A PRODUCT OR SERVICE INTO A BRAND! 

Victory Groove
Answering God's Call to Make an Impact Globally (Interview w/ Chris Field)

Victory Groove

Play Episode Play 30 sec Highlight Listen Later Jan 10, 2022 30:22


Often, we feel God's call to do something big for His glory.  At times, that calling may feel overwhelming to us.  We want to do His Will, but we may not know how and when. In this episode of Victory Groove, hear how Chris Field, a U.S. citizen, had the boldness, faith, and confidence to fight child trafficking in Ghana, Africa after reading about the horrendous problem there.  The Mercy Project was born out of a need to take action to address this critical human condition.  Lessons explored in this episode:  Knowing God is involved smooths our life's journey.   Roots and rocks will always appear in our daily walk. Our faith, trust in His benevolence, and love helps us move confidently forward in life.  Chris Field has been challenging complacency and disrupting the status quo most of his life. His most important disruption is Mercy Project, the non-profit he started to rescue children from human trafficking in Ghana, Africa. Its innovative approach has drawn international attention and earned the prestigious Norman Borlaug Humanitarian Award. To date, Mercy Project has rescued more than 150 children, returned them to their families, and provided them with an education that will transform their future for generations to come. Field lives in College Station, Texas with his wife Stacey and their four young children. Connect with Chris on LinkedIn @christophercfield and check out his book “Disrupting for Good” here! https://www.amazon.com/Disrupting-Good-Passion-Persistence-Lasting/dp/1684260019 Dr. Eli Jones is a Professor of Marketing, Lowry and Peggy Mays Eminent Scholar, and the former Dean of Mays Business School at his alma mater, Texas A&M University.  He served as Dean of three flagship business schools over 13 years. Dean of Mays Business School (2015-2021), Dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business and holder of the Sam M. Walton Leadership Chair at University of Arkansas (2012-2015), and as Dean of the E. J. Ourso College of Business and the E. J. Ourso Distinguished Professor of Business at Louisiana State University (2008-2012). Prior to becoming a dean, he was on the faculty at the University of Houston as an Assistant Professor, Associate Professor with tenure, Full Professor, Associate Dean for Executive Education Programs, Director of the Program for Excellence in Selling, and founding Executive Director of the Sales Excellence Institute at the University of Houston.  He has published sales and sales management research in top academic journals and is a co-author of two professional books, Selling ASAP, and Strategic Sales Leadership: Breakthrough Thinking for Breakthrough Results. He just finished writing his new book, Run Toward Your Goliaths, a book about his and his wife's faith journey. He is a Lifetime Achievement Award recipient by the American Marketing Association's Sales Special Interest Group and a PhD Project Hall of Fame recipient in 2016.  Also, he is the recipient of Excellence in Teaching awards on the university, national, and international levels having taught strategic selling, advanced professional selling, key accounts selling, sales leadership, and marketing strategy at the undergraduate, MBA levels and in executive programs. Before becoming a professor, Jones worked in sales and sales management for Quaker Oats, Nabisco, and Frito Lay. He is on the boards of Invesco Funds, Insperity, and on the regional board of First Financial Bank. 

Purpose and Profit with Kathy Varol
20. Doug Conant on Leadership as Sacred Ground

Purpose and Profit with Kathy Varol

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 5, 2022 63:42


Doug Conant is an internationally renowned business leader, and both a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. Doug has honed his leadership craft turning around companies at the most senior levels—first as President of the Nabisco Foods Company, then as CEO of Campbell Soup Company, and later as Chairman of Avon Products. In 2011, he founded ConantLeadership: a mission-driven community of leaders and learners who are championing leadership that works in the 21st century.   Throughout his career, Doug's motto has been, “to win in the marketplace, you must first win in the workplace”. This focus on people, workplace trust, and clarity of purpose have been critical factors to delivering extraordinary business results for the companies he led.     In this episode we discuss: Why you must first win in the workplace if you want to win in the marketplace The secret to employee engagement The blueprint for becoming a great leader     Key Takeaways: Leaders need followers, and followers are earned. To earn followers, you need to invite them in, and they need to know—and feel—they are wildly supported by you. If you are a leader, you invite others to join you by taking the time to listen, by being intentional, and by crafting your leadership plan. Being a leader of an organization is hard. There is no “right” way to be a leader. The most effective leaders take the time to understand their values, lead in alignment with their values, and have the courage to lead as themselves. You can't be an authentic leader if you're trying to lead like someone else. Everyone has the power to take accountability for how they show up to work, and in life. And on top of that, everyone is accountable for how they show up, whether they take accountability or not. Whether you're the CEO, a manager or an entry-level person, the way you show up influences those around you. It's worth being intentional about the influence you want to have.     References: You can engage with Doug on LinkedIn Conant Leadership The Blueprint: 6 Practical Steps to Lift Your Leadership to New Heights True North: Discover Your Authentic Leadership by Bill George and Peter Sims Stephen Covey Barbarians at the Gate is the movie about KKR's leveraged buyout of Nabisco (based on the book by Bryan Burrough and John Helyar) Maslow's hierarchy of needs comes from Abraham Maslow's essay “A Theory of Human Motivation” Catalyst's page on the Campbell Soup Company's “Winning in the Workplace, Winning in the Marketplace, Winning With Women” initiative Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't by Jim Collins     Connect & Share: If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. I also love reading them!   If this episode resonated with you, I ask you to send it to a friend. Help bring even more visibility to these leaders that are using business as a force for good!   Subscribe to the Purpose and Profit newsletter to make sure you don't miss future episodes.   This podcast is for you, the listener. I'd love to hear what resonated with you, or if you have a suggestion on who would be a great guest for this show. Please send me a note at info@KathyVarol.com.

Victory Groove
Finding God's Blessings in the Midst of a Crisis (with Odin Clack)

Victory Groove

Play Episode Play 58 sec Highlight Listen Later Dec 13, 2021 30:37


Hear How a Budding Entrepreneur, Odin Clack, Found His Calling While Facing a Family Crisis.  Odin shares his experience with life, death, faith and how they led him to a passion that turned into a successful business. Lessons explored in this episode/or what the listener can take away:  Knowing God is involved smooths our life's journey.   Roots and rocks will always appear in our daily walk. Our faith, trust in His benevolence, and love helps us move confidently forward in life. If you are interested in Odin's Leather Goods, check out their website! Dr. Eli Jones is a Professor of Marketing, Lowry and Peggy Mays Eminent Scholar, and the former Dean of Mays Business School at his alma mater, Texas A&M University.  He served as Dean of three flagship business schools over 13 years. Dean of Mays Business School (2015-2021), Dean of the Sam M. Walton College of Business and holder of the Sam M. Walton Leadership Chair at University of Arkansas (2012-2015), and as Dean of the E. J. Ourso College of Business and the E. J. Ourso Distinguished Professor of Business at Louisiana State University (2008-2012). Prior to becoming a dean, he was on the faculty at the University of Houston as an Assistant Professor, Associate Professor with tenure, Full Professor, Associate Dean for Executive Education Programs, Director of the Program for Excellence in Selling, and founding Executive Director of the Sales Excellence Institute at the University of Houston.  He has published sales and sales management research in top academic journals and is a co-author of two professional books, Selling ASAP, and Strategic Sales Leadership: Breakthrough Thinking for Breakthrough Results. He just finished writing his new book, Run Toward Your Goliaths, a book about his and his wife's faith journey. He is a Lifetime Achievement Award recipient by the American Marketing Association's Sales Special Interest Group and a PhD Project Hall of Fame recipient in 2016.  Also, he is the recipient of Excellence in Teaching awards on the university, national, and international levels having taught strategic selling, advanced professional selling, key accounts selling, sales leadership, and marketing strategy at the undergraduate, MBA levels and in executive programs. Before becoming a professor, Jones worked in sales and sales management for Quaker Oats, Nabisco, and Frito Lay. He is on the boards of Invesco Funds, Insperity, and on the regional board of First Financial Bank. Fighting with Faith to overcome adversity.  Running Toward Your Goliaths.   www.elijones.com 

Dork Matters
Dorkelicious

Dork Matters

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 8, 2021 66:54


Ben and Lexi are dorking out about all things food! What gross food combinations bring you the most comfort? If you had one last meal before the great beyond - what would you eat? What does a latch key eat when they are too afraid to use the stove? Listen in as they dork out with their forks out. SHOW NOTES:We are talking food BUT safety first - here is a helpful video on how to save yourself from choking on food if you are alone!Lexi's Last Meal:Yam fries and miso gravy from the Coup Caesar salad from Lexi's mom "Pseudo"  Lasagna , again from Lexi's mom Mocha Cake from Glamorgan Bakery Ben's Last Meal: Fancy pants Shepard's pie NOT cottage pie  (maybe some gravy or ketchup) Disgusting Food We Love:Spoonfuls of ice tea mix, straight up Saltine crackers  with peanut butter and chocolate chips (sad snacks) Saltines with pb & j Saltines with  margarine Christmas Crack (saltine recipe): https://www.littlesweetbaker.com/christmas-crack-saltine-cracker-toffee/Marble cheese, pasta sauce and crackers (saltines, Breton crackers, Ritz crackers or Stone Wheat Thins)White pasta, Zesty Italian salad dressing and A LOT of parmesan (sprinkle)   cheese...like a lot The Dylan special, the Pregnant woman wrap - whole wheat pita, sauerkraut, nut butter (not a sweet one) and  lacinato kale Imitation crab and melted butter OR wasabi OR a sriracha mayo Just melted cheese out of a bowl Maybe not gross food? Brie covered in butter, brown sugar and maple syrup and then wrapped in puff pastry Brie covered in Kahlua and then melt and eat with crackersBrie and raspberry jamCottage cheese and raspberry jam  Door Dash or Skip the Dishes Go To Order: Vietnamese  food is the winner! Subs or anything with noodles (Jess agrees!)Strangest Food  We Have TriedLexi will eat pineapple but only on pizza but will NEVER eat pineapple on its own. Pineapple is gross.  Ben ate a kangaroo , frog and crocodile We talked about:Jordan Witzel's beloved Glamorgan Cheese bun Halloween costume from 2020. Can't make this stuff up folks Luke's Drug MartBlack Foot Crossing Historical Park Calvin and Hobbes If you have gross food for our dork cook book, send those recipes in! Especially SALTINE CRACKER recipesTayce and Heniz beansCommunity Natural FoodsByblos Bakery and Lake View Bakery Wheat Crunch Lexi can only eat cheese pizza pops when she is sick  Let's get going with that lab grown meat!People who are allergic to shellfish might also be allergic to bugs Lexi alluded to the Queasy Bake oven Would you eat lab grown extinct animals? What about human lab grown meat? Lexi ate at Yamazato Restaurant in Amsterdam and it was amazing The Lucca Comics and Games festival Scoma's Restaurant  Ben would travel back to France for the food  and wants to visit Japan for a good noodle house Lexi would travel to Korea for the food  and wants to go back to the Netherlands  for foodRed Fish Blue Fish Mango Rash - it is real Grizzly House in Banff Man  has leg amputated and friends eat it Wendigo  BONUS CONTENT:Amazing producer Jess says:Jess' last meal:  avocado rolls. They are the perfect food and absolutely the last thing I would want to taste before the grand exitJess' disgusting food :  cheddar cheese on tortilla chips, you can't put anything else on them it needs to be just grated cheese (slices if you're feeling really lazy) on plain ass tortilla chipsFun fact: engineered meat grows better in space so we could potentially have like satellite labs sometime in the future when commercial space flight becomes more viableSOCIALS:Here's where you can find us!Lexi's website and twitter and instagramBen's website and instagram and where to buy his book: Amazon.ca / Comixology / Ind!go / Renegade ArtsDork Matter's website(WIP) and twitter and instagramIf you're enjoying Dork Matters, we'd really appreciate a nice rating and review on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your pods. It would very much help us get this show to the other dorks out there"I was that I was skinnier, but I love sandwiches"-  Hobo Johnson TranscriptLexi  I knew someone once, who grabbed a bag of chips and was eating the chips and, like, absent-mindedly just snacking away, as one does with chips,  and he said that he was eating the flavoring at the bottom when he finally looked into the bag and realized it was just filled with, like, maggots at the bottom. Like, something had obviously gotten in and he was like, "I don't actually know how many maggots I ate."Ben  I'm literally gonna throw up. That's... I can't handle maggots. Lexi  I can't remember what type of chip it was.Ben  Apparently something that looked and felt like maggots because think about it. A chip and a maggot are not in the same realm of--Lexi  Yeah.Ben  --you know, feel or texture when chewed. [chuckles]Lexi  But, doesn't it also tell you like the state of mind of a person sometimes, when they're eating where they're just like absolutely snacking? Like, they never actually think to themselves.Ben  I mean, I think that's just how I eat. [both laugh] That's just my way of eating.Lexi  You just come to you when the food's gone.Ben  Oh, unless it was Cheezies. Then, maybe. Like, a Hawkins Cheezie, but even still, you're eating a maggot. They squirm and they're squishy.Lexi  Look what I found today. I hope you're excited about it. It is...Ben  Oh, Wheat Crunch!Lexi  Yeah.Ben  Shit. Is that an Alberta-centric thing?Lexi  I don't even know if it's like popular outside of Calgary. Ben  I forgot that those even existed. Lexi  Well, I was in line at Canadian Tire, and I was like, "What the shit?!" and I bought, like, five, and then there's a big thing on the packaging saying, "You can order online," and I was like, "I will."Ben  Holy shit. I'm gonna order some too. Every kid had those in their lunchboxes here. Lexi  Yes. And then, just one day they were gone. Like, and no one said anything. They were just gone, and we just carried on with our lives like nothing happened. Ben  They were just gone, like Hickory Sticks which also exist, still.Lexi  That's-- that's shocking to me, but I really feel like Hickory Sticks are a good bang for your buck. Like, the bag is never ending. Ben  It does feel like it was more full than other chips. Lexi  Oh, yeah.Ben  It was a good choice from the vending machine, and it was also usually like a quarter less.Lexi  Mm-hmm, 75 cents or something. Ben  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's see. Food stores. What do I got? I've got when I almost killed myself by breaking the tab off of a pop can that I was drinking, dropping it into the can.Lexi  Oh, and then did you choke?Ben  And then, forgetting I put it in there. I drank it. I didn't choke. It went into my esophagus, perforated my esophagus. [Lexi gasps] I didn't think much of it. I was just like, "Oh crap. I'm gonna have to deal with that." Worked the rest of the day [Lexi chuckles] at this warehouse job I was working. Lexi  [laughs] My god.Ben  I finally got home and was like, "Crap. I think I need to go to the hospital," so I called my dad. He took me, and yeah, I'd perforated my esophagus. It was like, letting air into [Lexi gasps] and I'm just giving you what I remember. I was pretty drugged at the time, but the explanation I remember was that it had perforated my esophagus and was letting air into the areas around my heart so every time I was breathing, more air was getting in and crushing my heart, so I was just in immense pain. Lexi  Holy shit. Ben  Yeah, sort of like, out of it at one point, and going through surgeries and stuff, and they're asking me like, "On 1 to 10, what's your pain?" and I'm like, "I don't know. 13." [Lexi laughs] And then I got, like, morphine to high hell, and I was more or less out of it for nearly two weeks, like, just recovering--Lexi  Wow.Ben  --drugged out so that I wasn't awake on an IV drip. So I wasn't eating or drinking.Lexi  Holy.Ben  I was 18. It was a real fucked-up situation. Lexi  Wow. I think yours is better than maggots. Ben  What else do I got? Wait. I got two more. I'll do 'em quick, rapid fire. We were in Bermuda - Fiona and I, for like my first ever real vacation - and at one point, I bit a "tor-till-a" chip the wrong way or "tor-tee-ya" chip the wrong way and sliced my gum in the front here. Lexi  Yep, that'll happen.Ben  Had to get a gum graft.Lexi  That... Didn't know that was a thing. That's gross. Ben  It was so bad. Yeah, so you can get gum from what they call the tissue bank or the donor bank, so what I ended up having put into my mouth [Lexi laughs heartily] is a slight piece of somebody else's, like, jawbone. So they cut it open, they fold over the flaps, they drill into my jaw a little bit and then place this tiny piece of, like, bone with, like, gum tissue on it in there, and then let it grow up and stitch it into where it should be. And then, it just becomes part of me, and my personality changed after that.Lexi  Well, I was gonna say, "Did your taste change?" Were you like, "All of a sudden, I like mango"?Ben  Everything about me changed and I remembered dark crimes that I don't remember committing.Lexi  Well, obviously, my next question is, "Was this from a dead person or a living person?"Ben  Oh, it's definitely from a dead person. Lexi  Eugh! Ben  From what I understand, the donor bank is not from living people, so they just have a bank filled of tissue that's been donated. I could be wrong, but that's what the dentist told me. [laughs]Lexi  Well, I'm not sleeping tonight. That's... Wow.Ben  Last story is I used to have a huge gap in the front of my teeth. It was before you knew me, before I got braces, and my party trick was eating mashed potatoes and shooting them out like a playdough machine. Lexi  Oh, god.Ben  Just a long stream of mashed potatoes coming from between my teeth.Lexi  Speaking of food party tricks, I'm gonna send you a video and we'll see if we can put it on Instagram or Twitter or something, of me shotgunning a cupcake at a party once, because I had just come from work and I was all fancy, and they had mini cupcakes and I remember saying to Tim Belliveau, "I could eat this in one bite," and he was like, "Nah." And so the video is me just like deepthroating this cupcake and everyone cheering for me. Just, you know--Ben  College.Lexi  --like a person without food issues.Ben  Yeah, and if you haven't guessed, we're talking about food tonight. Welcome to Dork Matters. [theme music "Dance" by YABRA plays] Voiceover  [echoing] Dork Matters.Ben  Hello and welcome to Dork Matters, the show that is created by some dorks for all of you dorks out there, with dork content, ready to roll, and you might be wondering, "What's dork content?" and it's everything that matters to dorks.Lexi  It's whatever we say it is. Ben  [laughs] Whatever. We're dorks, and so if we wanna talk about it, it's a dork matter. [mystical electronic tone] You get it? You get it, right?Lexi  Yep.Ben  That's the name.Lexi  They get it. Ben  Yeah. I am your Doofus Dork, Ben Rankel, and with me, as per always, is...Lexi  Your Thrown-Off Dork. You always introduce yourself as Dad Dork. Now I'm like, "Well, am I the Dad Dork now?"Ben  I know. I've been thinking it and I thought, "If Lexi can change what kind of dork she is, I wanna be a different dork sometimes." [Lexi laughs]Lexi  Um, I am your Gourmand, Gourmet Dork. I had to look up the difference between those.Ben  Okay, record scratch. [scratching record, DJ-style] Gourmand and gourmet?Lexi  Yeah. Ben  Oh, and what is the difference?Lexi  A gourmet-- oh, that's what I was gonna tell you. Okay. There's a whole story. So, a gourmet is someone who likes you know, like the quality of food, so it's a quality over quantity, and a gourmand is quantity over quality, so they like to eat a lot.Ben  Wow, I just assumed they're completely different words that had, you know, like, maybe gourmet refer to the food, and a gourmand was the person who made it, but that's cool. I didn't realize they were kind of diametrically opposed.Lexi  They're polar opposites. I read this collection of, like, mixed-up fairy tales written for adults, and there was a story of a gourmet and a gourmand who lived together and basically, their obsession with food killed them because the gourmet eventually starves to death because no food is good enough, and the gourmand eats himself to death. Ben  So, kind of an opposite of the Jack Spratt situation. Lexi  Yes. Yeah. Ben  So you were a gourmand or a gourmet?Lexi  A little bit of both. I like to eat a little bit of a lot.Ben  Yeah, I feel the same.Lexi  Or a lot of a little bit. I don't know.Ben  A lot of a little.Lexi  I like high quality, but I like small bits of it. Like, I'm the type of person that I'll go to a restaurant and wanna have, like, just appetizers for dinner instead of like a full meal. Ben  So you could do a charcuterie dinner or a...Lexi  Oh, I love charcuterie. That's like my go-to meal.Ben  A "crud-ite" dinner.Lexi  Love it. Crudité.Ben  "Croo-deh-tah". Lexi  That's-- I've always wanted to go to Spain because of an Anthony Bourdain--Ben  RIP.Lexi  --episode where they're in Spain and they basically just, like, go from restaurant to restaurant, like, because, if you order booze, they just keep bringing you tapas--Ben  Mmm.Lexi  --and it's like, yeah. So, as long as you're buying a drink, you get free food, and so the type of drink that you get tells you the type of food that you're gonna get, so if you're gonna get a glass of wine, it might be, like, cheese and olives, or if you get a beer, it might be... I don't know, like bread and something or other. So that's-- that's the life for me right there.Ben  So just get hammered and keep eating. That sounds lovely.Lexi  Well, just like little-- little snacks. Little snacks throughout the evening. That's my go-to.Ben  That's your go-to. Skip dinner. Just eat snacks all night.Lexi  I'm a snack person.Ben  I mean, I'm a snack person too, but I still eat dinner, and that is the problem. [both laugh]Lexi  Oh, this isn't my dinner. This is just my pre-dinner snack. [chuckles]Ben  Okay, well, like, this brings us to a good place to chat which is, you know, exactly that, what kind of snacker you are, and I think I am both a bored snacker, and also a, what is it called? Like, grazer? I just wanna put things in my mouth if I'm trying to keep my mind occupied on something else. I guess what I'm saying is, I have every possible reason to continue eating and I think it shows. [Lexi laughs]Lexi  I've been trying to eat, like, just at my meals instead of grazing all day because that's a slippery slope. Ben  Mm-hmm.Lexi  But, man, there are... Low-calorie food is garbage, except for BOOMCHICKAPOP. That stuff is amazing.Ben  Yeah. Popcorn's great as a snack. You can just eat as much as you want of it. I think we should probably lay down some ground rules since we are talking about food. We are not looking to shame anybody's body types. We have our own body types. I have previously described mine as being pancake batter in a Ziploc bag. [Lexi laughs] And that's not what we're gonna do, so if we're talking a little bit, and we're hitting some stuff like talking about body type, or the way we eat and stuff, we're just discussing food for the love of food and--Lexi  YeahBen  --and our own issues with how we approach it, and we are not looking to give anybody a vibe or, you know, make anyone feel bad about their approach to food. You love to eat? Eat as much as you want. Do what you gotta do. Lexi  Yeah, this is a celebration. Ben  Do what makes you happy. A celebration of food. Lexi  We're celebrating food, and I'd like to also say, a celebration of local food, because I think, sometimes, people have this image of Alberta being like, "Ah, you all like beef out there." I'm like, "Yeah, but there's also lots of really amazing other food here," so this is a celebration of all things food, today.Ben  I love it. I love food. Where do we go from here? What is your favorite food? Let's talk about it.Lexi  Ooh. Okay, so I have two different favorite foods, and there's like, my favorite meal. Like, if I was gonna have, like, one last meal, what I would cook, and then there's like my secret gross foods that I think people, like if they hear me, they're like, "That's disgusting. I'm gonna go home and try it just to make sure."Ben  Okay, I think we have to do this through different categories here. Lexi  Yeah.Ben  I want, first, last meal. What would you eat? What would be the last thing? You have finally done it. You have-- you've committed that crime that you've been considering for so long. [Lexi laughs] You finally decided it was time, and you got caught. You were sloppy. You weren't good at the crime. You thought about it a lot, but not how to execute it. Poor choice. So you're caught now. You're on death row, in the US, I guess, 'cause we don't fuck with that here.Lexi  Yeah, we don't execute people in Canada.Ben  So yeah, [chuckling] you've moved to the US at some point to commit this crime. [Lexi laughs] This crime of passion, I assume, and yeah, you're on death row. Last meal, what is it?Lexi  Okay, I thought about this a lot. First of all, I was actually going through my cookbooks to decide [chuckling] which my meal would be.Ben  Oh, that's great. Lexi  And I think my appetizer for my last meal would be the yam fries and miso gravy from The Coup, which is a local vegetarian restaurant here in Calgary, and they released this cookbook of their vegetarian food, like years ago - they probably have a newer one - but I bought it specifically to get their miso gravy recipe, and it's the one fucking thing they don't have the whole book, so that pissed me off. But, I have cooked almost every single thing in here, and I would say, that would be my appetizer of my last meal. Ben  Okay.Lexi  It's delicious. Yam wedges with delicious warm miso gravy. So good. Then, I would have my mom's Caesar salad 'cause she makes it just so delicious.Ben  What does your mom do that's different?Lexi  Um, she makes a dressing from scratch, and she gets, like, these really high-quality anchovies, and like mushes them into a paste with a mortar and pestle.Ben  Oh, my god. I want your mom's Caesar now. Lexi  Oh, I'll bring it for you. It's so good. Like, she makes a vat of it.Ben  I love anchovies.Lexi  Oh my god. It's my favorite. And she just puts like a shit-ton of lemon juice in it. It's just so, so refreshing and delicious. So, I would have my mom's Caesar salad, and then, in the old Lexi household, my mom is an amazing cook. She, like, she was a Home Ec teacher a million years ago. I mean, 10 years ago, 'cause she's so young and vibrant.Ben  [laughs] Does your mom listen to this?Lexi  No, but you know, I wanna be respectful. She's, you know...Ben  Sure yeah.Lexi  She's a young babe. But she just-- she's such an incredible cook. But, I love lasagna, but lasagna takes 8 million years to make, so she makes something called "pseudo-lasagna", which is just what we called it, where it's like a ziti, like a stovetop-- you just put noodles and sauce and cheese and meat and shit in a pot. Ben  Yeah, yeah.Lexi  And that's my favorite 'cause she lets the sauce sit for just hours. It's so, so delicious, so I'd have that, and then, as my final dessert, I would have a really nice coffee 'cause I like a good coffee, and then I would have mocha cake from the Glamorgan Bakery.Ben  Wow, you're just pulling out all the locals here. Lexi  'Cause they're so good! Okay, if no one knows about Glamorgan Bakery, I almost don't wanna tell you because it's so popular.Ben  This is a good time to let you know that most of our listeners aren't in our city or even our country. Lexi  That's why I have to explain it to them. Okay, so American listeners, because apparently that's where a lot of you are, and Western Australia--Ben  And the UK and Sweden. Welcome. Lexi  Yeah, welcome foreign--Ben  Dignitaries.Lexi  --outside people. We love you. [both laugh]Lexi  Four of the best--Ben  Yeah.Lexi  There's this bakery and it is-- like, it hasn't changed from, like, I'm gonna say 1965. Like, it is dingy inside, but my god, they make the best food, and they're known for a cheese bun to the point that, like, a local weatherman, as his Halloween costume, dressed up as a cheese bun one year for Halloween.Ben  We have a sort of, hip... It's a drug mart/grocery/record store/...Lexi  Ice cream dispensary?Ben  Post office/ice cream place/coffee shop called Luke's in our city, and their big announcement recently was that they're carrying now Glamorgan Bakery cheese buns for those in the know.Lexi  That shit, like it sells out.Ben  So you have to get there early and pick those up.Lexi  That's what I ask for, for my birthday every year, is cheese buns. My mom just goes and buys me like a couple of bags of cheese buns 'cause they freeze well.Ben  That's pretty cool. I have now decided I'm gonna take my son to a bakery tomorrow morning. [chuckling]Lexi  You know what the great thing is? You can try some mocha cake because they have-- they're not even pieces of cake that you can buy individually. They just have, like-- they're like bite-size, brownie-sized pieces of cake so you just a little bit.Ben  Nice. Just cake bites. Lovely. And that rounds out the meal.Lexi  Yeah, that's my meal. That's my meal of, "I'm about to die."Ben  And now you're dead. Lexi  Yep, now I'm dead, probably from all the cholesterol.Ben  Oh, who do you have come in to redo your last rites? What-- what religion?Lexi  I was raised Protestant. I couldn't tell you which kind. Um, the sarcastic Protestants? Which one is that? I don't know.Ben  I mean, sure. Yeah. No, I am familiar with them, myself. My dad was Protestant, my mom was Baptist, and I am nothin'.Lexi  Yeah, I'm nothin'. I think I'd probably have like-- I'd say goodbye to John. Ben  Will Shortz. Lexi  Maybe-- you know what I would do is I would have Ashley Shaw come read to me from the book of "The Flying Spaghetti Monster". Ben  Oh, nice.Lexi  Just because I'd wanna say goodbye to her because I think she'd be like, "Nah, you're fine. You got this." Ben  Yeah, yeah.Lexi  "You'll be okay."Ben  Hey, get back to us. Let us know what's on the other side. And now you're dead. Sorry about that.Lexi  Yeah. Get out of there. What about you?Ben  [chuckles] I'll keep it simple. I would have shepherd's pie. I don't know from where exactly or exactly whose, but it would be some form of shepherd's pie, maybe the most expensive one I could find, like Wagyu beef or something. So, like, yeah. I just want a nice comforting--Lexi  I was gonna ask, like, "Are you a lamb person?"Ben  Yeah, ah, right. So we should get into, just very briefly, the difference between shepherd's pie and cottage pie, which is the meat that you use, and not everyone knows that, and it also, I don't think matters anymore. Just call it all shepherd's pie. Who cares? It's all shepherd's pie. But yeah, I'm into lamb. I'm into turkey ones. I'm into beef. I think the layering of the meat and the vegetables, and the mashed potatoes is just the most magical combination. You get one slice of that and it's a full, proper meal all on its own. It's so fucking comforting. That would be a way I could say goodbye to the world is with a big piece of well-made shepherd's pie. Little bits of gravy. Lexi  Do you put ketchup on it?Ben  I have been known to put ketchup on it. I'm not-- I'm not above that. I generally think a good shepherd's pie can, you know, stand on its own with just gravy, but if you wanna throw ketchup on there, do it. If you want some of that sugary tomato jam, go for it.Lexi  My grandma used to make a shepherd's pie, but instead of mashed potatoes, she would make dumplings and put them on top. Ben  Mmm. Like, biscuit dumplings?Lexi  Yeah, but like not... I don't even know how to describe it because they were more doughy than bready.Ben  Yeah, yeah, just like a proper, actual, like the soup dumpling or something, your sort of Pan-Euro, North American food. I get you.Lexi  So, my mom's side of the family is Scottish, and there're all these like, kind of, nuanced, like, little bits of like Scottish history in the food that has been, like, bastardized by Canadian... As like-- probably all of Canada's just like a bastardization of where we've all come from, unless you're indigenous, and then you're the true people of Canada.Ben  That's not sarcastic. We both actually firmly believe that. Lexi  [chuckling] Yeah, we firmly believe that.Ben  We are colonial settlers that are doing our best to figure that shit out, and, yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting thing that I don't think we're maybe prepared to talk about, but it's interesting to at least bring up is sort of the idea of North American indigenous foods from different tribes and stuff like that, and different nations, and, sort of, also how it was informed by the way they were treated by European colonialists, and, like, making certain foods and dishes that became sort of synonymous with different nations, based on the food products they had available from a government that was basically trying to kill them, in Canada, specifically, starve them out. So that's interesting, and it'd be cool to talk about that someday, but today is not that day. But, god, there is such a great history of food with the different nations in this territory.Lexi  So there's this place called Blackfoot Crossing, which is this historical museum in southern Alberta, which is just south of Cluny, and it is this amazing, beautiful cultural center, and I highly recommend everybody go there, especially because the cafeteria, the last time I was there, they had-- I think it was bison burgers on fry bread, and it-- I can still taste it. It was so amazing. Just the fry bread was absolutely incredible, so if ever you are in southern Alberta... People come from all over the world to go to Banff, which is awesome, but if you're in Alberta, do yourself a favor, and head out to Blackfoot Crossing and see the amazing center there, and eat the food.Ben  Yeah. Good tip. Good travel tip. Next. I love it. Let's keep going. What are we talking about next? We're both dead now from eating delicious food. Okay, what's the thing that you eat that you think is absolutely disgusting and vile that nobody else would like?Lexi  Your gross food.Ben  It doesn't have to be elaborate. It could just be a snack or something weird. Like, maybe you scoop, powdered iced tea by the teaspoon and just shove in your mouth. Lexi  Is that? Is that what you do?Ben  I'm not saying I've done that. I don't do that. I may have done that in the past. I don't currently do that. I am an adult, and I don't have to tell you.Lexi  [laughs] "Look, and I don't wanna talk about it anymore." [laughs]Ben  It might have been something I did as a younger person. [chuckles]Lexi  I think that I have like four, and two of them are just like, "Oh, are you an adult or are you eight?" and then the other two, I think, are like more legitimately gross, but I'm like, "This is my comfort food."Ben  Okay. I came with one, but I'm really curious to see if I get inspired by any of yours, so let's hit 'em.Lexi  Okay.Ben  Rapid fire. Lexi  We'll start with the not-so-gross one. I love a good saltine cracker. Actually, growing up, I would go-- No, no, no. I'm not done yet. You put shit on the saltine. It's not just the cracker.Ben  Okay. For the listeners, I made a bit of a motion and facial expression that suggested that there was nothing weird about eating a saltine cracker. Lexi  No.Ben  Except that it's basic and boring. [chuckles] There's nothing wrong with it.Lexi  My grandma used to put margarine on the saltine crackers for me. She'd be like, "Ah, here you go." Okay, but not that.Ben  All right.Lexi  So, a saltine cracker with just tons of peanut butter and then chocolate chips. That's like my, "I'm sad, and I wanna eat something."Ben  I like that. Lexi  It's so good.Ben  I don't think that's gross. I'm with you. I used to make little sandwiches out of peanut butter and jam on saltine crackers, and I'd make a whole plate of them, just a little tray when I was a kid, still living at home, and it was just like my beautiful little snack, and I was gonna munch those while I watched a cartoon or something. Lexi  Those are my Calvin and Hobbes snacks. Like, while I was reading the comics, I would eat my chocolate peanut butter saltines. Num-num-num-num. So delicious.Ben  I love it. I think it's beautiful, and I don't think it's gross. I'm passing judgment on your choices.Lexi  We should make the food and then do, like, a little photoshoot for everybody. Mm-hmm.Ben  We should. We can make a shitty cookbook. Lexi  So, number two, and this is my sister. I'm calling out Megan because she and I used to do this together. 'Cause my parents both worked, like, serious-people, adult jobs when we were growing up, and so, we would have to, like, cook food for ourselves all the time, but we were like gross teenagers.Ben  Were you a proverbial latchkey kid?Lexi  Yes. 100% So we would be like, "I don't know. What are we gonna eat?" So here's what you eat, is you grate some marble cheese, okay? Just the Co-op-brand marble cheese into a giant pile, put it in a little bowl, and then pour pasta sauce right out of the jar, right on top of it. Ben  Whoa.Lexi  Now you're gonna microwave that bad boy.Ben  Wow. I was-- I thought I knew where this was going, and it was to the microwave.Lexi  It's to the microwave because that's how latchkey kids cook.Ben  I did not ever put pizza sauce on my-- or tomato sauce, or pasta sauce on my cheese though. I would microwave it and just eat it and it was always that big block from Co-op.Lexi  Oh yeah, the big block from Co-op but then-- so then you have like a cheesy tomato-ey mess, and then you eat it, again with the saltines or Ritz crackers, Breton crackers or Stoned Wheat Thins. Any type of cracker will do.Ben  Ooh! Somebody was fancy with their four types of crackers.Lexi  I like a charcuterie. I don't know.Ben  We should try to get a saltine sponsorship from Nabisco or whoever, or Mr. Christie, whoever the fuck--Lexi  Oh, my god. Yes.Ben  Yeah. Let's do a photoshoot of...Lexi  [laughing] Of our saltine crackers. Ben  Yeah, I'm not joking.Lexi  Ooh, all the different ways you can use a saltine.Ben  And also, if you're listening to this and you have a great saltine cracker recipe, I want you to 100% message us on social media or email us. We want those recipes. I will, at the very least, talk about them or make a list that we share in show notes or something, someday, But yeah, I, 100%, mean it. We're gonna make ourselves a mini little saltine cracker cookbook.Lexi  We're doing it. There was this drag queen that was on RuPaul's Drag Race UK, and all she did the entire season was talk about how much she loves Heinz beans on toast, and sure enough, Heinz decides to sponsor her, and she gets a lifetime supply of canned beans. And she made a comment of like, "This was the plan all along," and so... saltine crackers, nothing can be better than a saltine. Hey, Ben...Ben  We need to be very clear about which brand of saltine cracker we want. [Lexi laughs] The one in the red box. Ben  Yeah, yeah. I think that's Mr. Christie.Lexi  Is that it?Ben  I'm gonna double check.Lexi  We want this delicious, small saltines. They're delicious in a soup. You can have them as a dessert.Ben  You get four giant pillars of them in one red box, and if you're having chicken noodle soup, you crush up half of the package, [Lexi laughs] dump it in till it's just-- it's just a fucking swamp in your bowl and then eat that shit.Lexi  So, more like a stew by the time...Ben  Yeah, a saltine and chicken stew. Yeah, it's Christie's.Lexi  I like to put it in Campbell's-- like, probably their chowders. Delicious. Where it's less soup than it is sludge by the time you have, like, 10 crackers in there.Ben  Yeah. I want some more. Hit me with your next gross one.Lexi  Okay. This is maybe not as gross, but it makes me feel like a toddler every time I eat it, but this is my go-to. I'm having a bad day. I just wanna feel nostalgia. I will boil up a bunch of pasta and then it has to be zesty Italian salad dressing.Ben  Oh, that is weird. I've never heard that one. Lexi  And then I just pour it all over the pasta and then just absolute boatloads of Parmesan cheese.Ben   I'm not even sure I think any of these are gross yet. I think they're all very college.Lexi  I think they're disgusting.Ben  I think they're absolutely like,  "I'm 18 and living on my own for the first time," but... [Lexi laughs]Lexi  I shame-eat the pasta thing. Like, John hates cheese, and so, first of all, he thinks that parmesan, or as I like to call it, sprinkle cheese--Ben  Jesus.Lexi  He thinks it's disgusting.Ben  The stuff that comes out of the can from Kraft? Lexi  Yes. Ben  Yeah, that's not cheese.Lexi  The stuff that... No, it's powdered foot?Ben  I don't know. Probably-- no, it's yes. Powdered, like, you know the stuff you scrape off your feet? The bunions or the whatever, the hard part?Lexi  Yes.Ben  Just put it into a jar. They collect it, and then you shake.Lexi  Then, I eat it.Ben  Smells about the same. [Lexi chuckles] Lexi  That is my go-to.Ben  Now we made it gross.Lexi  Okay, okay, and so--Ben  I love it. It's delicious. Lexi  This is my ultimate gross one, and I have to say, so a good friend of mine is-- he's a produce person at Community Natural Foods, here in Calgary, which is kind of like our version of Whole Foods, I guess you could say.Ben  It's the closest we get. Whole Foods has never really executed on opening a store in our city for some reason. Lexi  I thought they did have one here. Ben  They have had a couple that were supposed to open, and it never ended up happening. Maybe they saw what happened to Krispy Kreme and Target here.Lexi  Or Target, yeah.Ben  Decided they couldn't take that risk.Lexi  I would like to say that I tried my best to keep Target open. I feel like I single-handedly kept a store open here but I mean, there's only so many socks you can buy.Ben  Bright pink. The women's section was where I liked to buy all my socks for a long time, and I do miss it.Ben  Let's keep it local and alienate all our listeners. Go to Byblos Bakery here in Calgary to get your pitas.Lexi  Yeah, I liked the socks there, and pajamas. Oh, I miss Target. Anyway, so my friend Dylan, he is an incredible cook, and so, anytime he's like, "This is a great food combination," I just trust him because everything he's ever made has been absolutely delicious. So one day, he's like, "Just stay with me. It's gonna sound disgusting, but it's so good." So you get a pita, like a whole wheat pita that's like maybe the size of your face. Like, a large one.Lexi  [laughs] Or Lakeview.Ben  Eh, I feel like Byblos is a little more Calgary.Lexi  The gluten-free option. Okay, now we're just arguing about neighborhoods. Anyway. Ben  Good, good podcast. [Lexi laughs]Lexi  It's so accessible to people.Ben  [chuckling] Listen to Lexi and Ben argue about Calgary communities. That's what you came here for, folks. Okay. You get your pita.Lexi  Yeah. Your whole wheat pita and then some type of nut butter, and it can't be sweet. It can't be like a sweet peanut butter. It has to--Ben  Can we stop for just a quick second and appreciate the term "nut butter"?Lexi  Yeah. It's-- it could be an almond.Ben  Let's just sit there for a second.Lexi  [not pausing] It could be cashew.Ben  It's funny. You can't-- you can't say nut butter in a conversation and not just stop to appreciate how funny it sounds. Lexi  You've never worked in an organic food store before because that sentence comes up a lot. [chuckles]Ben  And you don't snicker every single time? Lexi  No, I'm like, "What type of nut butter do you use the most?" [Ben laughs]Ben  Nut butter. [laughs] Maybe you just need somebody more immature around to help you appreciate how silly it sounds.Lexi  Well, it's like truffle butter or whatever that thing. You know what? Okay, so you take a nut butter and a not-sweet one. [Ben laughs] Ben  I can't stop.Lexi  While Ben can't stop giggling, I'm just gonna go on with the recipe 'cause it is delicious. So I, personally, like an almond nut butter, [Ben continues laughing] but, I mean, like you do you. You can use a peanut or cashew.Ben  [stifling laughter] Yeah.Lexi  It just can't be sweet.Ben  [laughing] So, you don't want a sweet nut butter. Is it salty? [still laughing] Lexi  Apparently, in some parts of the world, you can get a spicy nut butter. [Ben laughs heartily] [Lexi, unlaughing] Like, a savory or like a spicy. Ben  [laughing] I'm sorry. I'm gonna actually die. Lexi  [unlaughing] Yeah, Ben's having a cry right now.Ben  Oh, Jesus.Lexi  We're adults here, folks. We like to keep it above board.Ben  [laughing] Okay, you've got your peanut or your nut butter, spicy, apparently.Lexi  [unlaughing] Well, I like just a plain one, like almonds.Ben  [stifling laughter] Okay, okay, okay. I'm good. I've got this.Lexi  So, you got your whole wheat pita, the almond butter, we'll just say, so Ben doesn't peel off into more laughter.Ben  I appreciate it. Thank you. [laughs]Lexi  And then you need kale, like, a dark leafy green like "laciento", "lacento"?Ben  You lost me.Lexi  A dark kale, like dinosaur kale, like a really dark green, and then sauerkraut, like, from the jar.Ben  This is... This is a crime. You just committed a crime.Lexi  It's so good, and then you wrap that bitch up. Ben  This is what you went to death row for. Canada brought it back and put you on it for this crime against culinary...Lexi  Dylan would not steer me wrong. And so, one day he said it and I was like, "That's disgusting," and another guy that I worked with was like, "Nah, I'm doing it," 'cause Dylan has never made a bad meal, and he made it, and was like, "This is legit delicious," and so every so often I make it and I call it, like, my "pregnant woman wrap", and it is so delicious. Sauerkraut, kale, pita, nut butter. Delicious.Ben  Okay, what we're gonna do at some point, along with our saltine cracker recipe, mini recipe book PDF that we're gonna put out for you all, complete with photos, is we're gonna make some sort of small video where Lexi makes me this god-awful, disgusting-sounding thing, and I will put it in my mouth, and we'll see what happens. We will film that reaction.Lexi  And then, when he loves it, I will accept his praise and his apology for giggling like a wee child.Ben  Wait. Why do I have to apologize? That was about nut butter. [laughs] Just said it sounded gross, and you brought it here to me.Lexi  No, you said that I was gonna die because the food was so gross. Ben  Yeah, I did say you committed a crime.Lexi  You just said I deserve death. What's your gross food now?Ben  I don't even know if I have anything anywhere near as bad as yours. Now all of my snacks seem pretty normal. I guess the grossest one is I'll get imitation crab. Lexi  Okay.Ben  Alaskan Pollock, and I'll break it up into a bowl and put like a pat of butter on it. Lexi  Oh.Ben  And melt it and just eat that. Lexi  [pauses] Okay.Ben  It's like eating butter crab, right. Like, I can't eat that. I'm allergic to shellfish, but it's still sort of gross when you think about the idea of just like taking a chunk of butter out of the fridge and putting it on top of imitation crab and microwaving it.Lexi  When we were in college, when we would have, like, late nights out at the old Art Hotel, which was the pub.Ben  You mean the Fart Hotel? [laughs]Lexi  The Fart Hotel 'cause it was the pub called The Art Hole.Ben  The Fart Hole.Lexi  Anyway, you know, you can see how a couple, you know, beautifully-drawn letters...Ben  Graffitied letters.Lexi  Yeah, I would go home, and I was like, "I need something in my stomach to help me you know, not be inebriated."Ben  Yeah, yeah. Lexi  And all-- my mom would just buy me packages of imitation crab at Costco. I lived at home during college, and I would just stand there with the fridge door open and just eat like half a package of imitation crab after a night out.Ben  It's so good. Lexi  It's so good.Ben  Did you ever melt butter on it?Lexi  No. I would dip it in wasabi. Ben  Oh, that's even better. Shit. I'm putting imitation crab on my grocery list. This episode's making me hungry. Lexi  Oh, you know what you get, is a spicy Sriracha mayo.Ben  Ohh, that sounds good. It's like an aioli. Lexi  Yeah. Ben  [laughs] Please write us to let us know what you think of our food choices. [Lexi laughs]Lexi  We are not high right now, also.Ben  [laughing] Oh, my god. I wish. What did I choose? I think that's the grossest thing I got. I can't think of anything else.Lexi  That's weak. I'm ashamed.Ben  I'm sorry. I'm trying, but when I was a kid, I would take, as I mentioned, on occasion, spoonfuls of iced tea powder mix. That's pretty disgusting. Lexi  No, whaaat? That was you?!Ben  [chuckles] This is my dark secret coming out. And I was with you on that melting marble cheese 'cause I used to do the same thing, but I would just eat the melted cheese from a bowl, like some sort of monster. Lexi  Yeah, you need some tomatoes in there to cut that shit.Ben  I don't know. So that's what I got. Nowadays, I just eat like beef jerky if I want a snack. Lexi  Boo. Where's the gross?Ben  Some sort of sort of meat. I know. I feel so disappointed in myself. What's gross? I bet Fiona could come up with something gross that I do. Or eat, I mean. [laughs] She can definitely come up with gross shit that I do, but...Lexi  Some gross shit that you eat. It has to be specific to that.Ben  We should have asked our partners what the most disgusting thing they've seen us eat is.Lexi  Well, John would definitely say the cheese because he thinks all cheese is disgusting, and I love a good blue cheese. Ben  Oh.Lexi  And he's like, "Oh, so you eat mold?" Like, "Yeah, I do. It's delicious."Ben  Yeah, why not? It's not the first time.Lexi  Oh, I went to a cheese party once.Ben  That sounds like it would be delicious, but also trouble for my stomach, long term.Lexi  Well, none of us smelled good for a few days. I'll just put that out there. Ben  That's okay. Lexi  Oh.Ben  Well, this way you don't roll in the cheese.Lexi  One of the girls there, she made-- so she bought Pillsbury, just pastry dough, and a wheel of brie, and then she covered the brie with butter and maple syrup and brown sugar and then wrapped it in the pastry dough and then baked it.Ben  I've made that. It's good. Lexi  Oh, it's so good. Ben  You could also do it where you take a wheel of brie and just dump, like, Kahlúa on it, and then you light it up and then dip crackers in it after the flame goes out.Lexi  I like to put raspberry jam on top of my brie.Ben  I don't know if this is disgusting or not, but I like to put jam in cottage cheese and eat that. Is that weird?Lexi  Eh, that's-- no, 'cause you can - I don't know if you still can - but you used to be able to buy individual cottage cheese things that came with jam.Ben  Right. At the bottom and you're supposed to like mix them up, right?Ben  Yeah, okay. Not weird. I'm sorry. I guess I eat more normal than I thought I did. That brings us to the halfway mark of our show, and, as always, we've got... [both, along with "Who's That Pokémon" theme music] Who's that Pokémon? [only Ben] What do you got for me this week?Lexi  Yeah.Lexi  When last we met, I talked about a wet bag of sand. This time, I'm gonna use a cheese analogy. So imagine... [laughs]Ben  Okay.Lexi  There was a guy at art school who made a bust of Jesus out of Velveeta cheese, and it was called "Cheesus".Ben  "Cheesus", yeah.Lexi  Okay, this individual is-- it's a dark silhouette, but filled with piss and vinegar, and it's like a blue cheese silhouette of a man.Ben  It's like we've never seen Pokémon. Lexi  No. [both laugh]Lexi  And I'm just describing flavors and, I think, shadows. [Ben laughs]Ben  Okay, so we have a dark shadow that tastes like piss and vinegar.Lexi  And blue cheese. [Ben laughs heartily]Ben  And blue cheese. Lovely. Boy, this sounds like something I'll be able to guess.Lexi  Mmm. The silhouette is tall, and it's got a big square for a head and then bunched up shoulders like they're around its neck. Rrr. So grouchy, like this. And then, two little sticks, and that's all I got for you. Who is it, Ben?Ben  I have no fucking clue. Chester the Cheetah?Lexi  I'm disappointed. It's Gordon Ramsay. Come on.Ben  Gordon. [laughing] Oh, Gordon Ramsay. You're right. I should have gotten that silhouette. Gordon Ramsay, as everyone knows, has a very well-designed character silhouette. Lexi  Yeah, it's like a block of cheese. Ben  Known as average white male. [laughs]Lexi  Square head.Ben  Okay, someday I'm gonna take a shot at this and see if I can do any better. I love it. Gordon Ramsay.Lexi  I was really impressed that you got Margaret Atwood last time.Ben  Yeah. Did I? I don't remember.Lexi  I think, eventually, after I kept yelling "bag of sand" at you, and then you were like, "Margaret Atwood?" I'm like, "Yeah!"Ben  All right. Now we have to do the end part of it. [Pokémon theme music] [shouts] It's Gordon Ramsay! [at usual volume] 'Cause they always yell it. I'm gonna send you the clip so you know what "Who's That Pokémon?" is all about. [chuckles]Lexi  I know what--Ben  Oh, I really, actually thought you didn't-- you'd never seen it.Lexi  No, remember, I drew Nurse Joy as one of my characters for Inkto, Ben. [Ben laughs] I have had people message me and be like, "I think you mean October." I'm like, "No, I mean--"Ben  Inktober? Actually, glasses up, like actually, I don't.Lexi  I know what I'm doing.Ben  Check out this cool new hashtag. Only one of the words on the list was misspelled.Lexi  Which is impressive. I mean, that's good. Ben  Welcome back. We are here again after that wonderful break. I got sick a year and a half ago. Lexi  Oh, good from food. Ben  No, I don't know why I got sick. And no doctor that I went to see over the course of however many months was able to help me, and then eventually it stopped. But the point is, during that, I could only eat-- like, basically, chicken noodle soup and saltine crackers were the only-- and Pedialyte, and that was all I ate for like, two and a half, three months, and I lost like 40 pounds, and people kept asking me if I was dying. That's a good anecdote, right?Lexi  Oh, I've got a good one. Like, one time, it was Christmas Eve, and I think John and I had been dating for like, I don't know, a couple of years, still fairly new in the relationship.Ben  Yeah, Fiona and I are 11, and, you know, we got married after seven, so I feel like two is still relatively fresh.Lexi  Yes. Like, who are you, again? John? Yeah, so it was Christmas Eve, and I remember I was at my sister's house, and I was like, "I'm not feeling well," and she was like, "You're fine," and then, I was staying at my parents' house and John was gonna come meet us on Christmas Day, and halfway through the night I just got super, super sick, and this is when I knew he was a keeper because I text him and I was like, "I'm sick. I can't go to Christmas Day anything." Like, it was bad news, and he was like, "Can I bring you anything? Like, I'll come pick you up from your parents' house and I'll take you home," 'cause I was too sick to drive, and he said, "Well, you know, it's Christmas. Like, what's open on Christmas Day?" and especially, like 10 years ago. And I was like, "When I get super, super sick, all I can eat are pizza pops."Ben  Wow.Lexi  Like, cheese, pizza pops. That's like, that's all I can stomach.Ben  I bought some of those recently to see if they're as good as I thought they were as a kid and they're not.Lexi  No, they're sick food for me, so I only eat them when I'm sick. So if I eat them are healthy, I feel like I'm gonna be s-- Like, it's a whole thing.Ben  Wow. That could be a self-perpetuating cycle.Lexi  Oh, yeah, probably. I mean, they're not food. They're just chemicals, but anyw-- well, all food is chemicals.Ben  You eat them. It makes you sick, and then you eat them because that's all you can eat while you're sick, and then you get better so then, you keep eating them. Yeah.Lexi  But I told him, "Like, all I want right now is a pizza pop and ginger ale," and so, god bless that man, he drove around the city looking for an open 7/11 or gas station or whatever, and he came, and he picked me up, and he took me home and he made me pizza pops and ginger ale and for, like, four days, I was sick as a dog. But he fed me pizza pops, and I will love him forever for that 'cause it was so nice of him.Ben  Was it swine flu?Lexi  I think I actually had was it Norwalk or norovirus? I was teaching kindergarten at that time, and I've never been so sick in my life as when I taught kindergarten. Ben  Probably--Lexi  Like, god bless the kindergarten teachers. Oh.Ben  Yeah, it's disgusting. Lexi  Okay, I have to tell you a story and it's not mine, and I hope she'll forgive me for telling this, but it is my favorite food poisoning story.Ben  Is it somebody I know that we should put on blast, or should we bleep their name? Lexi  No. We should bleep their name. Ben  Okay, say it really loud so Jess can bleep it. [simultaneously] Bleep. [bleep] [laughs]  Beeeeep.Lexi  My beloved friend, we used to go for Indian food all the time, and she loves, loves, loves butter chicken. And one time, she went to this place, and she was like, "Yeah, the food was like, it tasted off," and she ate the butter chicken. She was living at home with her parents, and she got wicked, wicked food poisoning, just sick as a dog, and she was throwing up so badly that she couldn't catch her breath. And so, because she couldn't get enough oxygen into her system, like, she was starting to cramp up, so like she was-- like, she couldn't move. She was literally, like, passed out next to the toilet [chuckling] and her mom had to call an ambulance. It's not funny. Ben  Jesus.Lexi  But, her mom had to call an ambulance 'cause it was--Ben  You're laughing a lot for something that's not funny. Lexi  Just stay with me. Ben  Okay, I'm here. [Lexi laughs]Lexi  She's so sick. She's like, "I lit-- it, like, it was awful." The paramedics show up at her parents' house and come into the bathroom and they're like, [in stern voice] "What drugs are you on?" She's like, "Butter chicken." [Ben laughs] [Lexi laughs]Ben  I mean if you haven't ground up and snorted some butter chicken, are you really living?Lexi  Oh. I still, like, that's my fav... Every time I eat butter chicken, I think of her and I'm like, "God, I loved her." [laughs] She was so awesome.Ben  I love it. It's perfect. Lexi  Oh.Ben  We're movin' on. We are talking about your go-to DoorDash order now. Lexi  Ooh.Ben  if you don't want to leave the house and you want someone to bring you food and, in the past, that meant calling a specific place and finding somebody that did delivery. Now, it's as easy as a click of a button, I think is what old people say when they talk about the internet. What do you get? What's your go-to order for DoorDash? What is the thing that is simple, easy, and if you can't think of anything else, you want that?Lexi  Oh, Vietnamese, easily.Ben  Okay, then we get we get a Daily Double. [Jeopardy's Daily Double electronic zapping]. Lexi  Oh, do you also?Ben  Yeah,  Banh Mi. Lexi  Yes. Ben  Yeah, I want a Vietnamese sub if we can't figure out what else we want, don't wanna go super unhealthy. I can convince myself that a Vietnamese sub is pretty good for me.Lexi  I love a good, like, noodle bowl. Delicious. I like noodles at the best of times, so any type of noodle soup, delicious, charbroiled meats--Ben  Sure. Lexi  I like the salad rolls.Ben  You can get three or four meats in one vermicelli bowl. Lexi  Yes. Ben  Why would you not?Lexi  So good. Ben  You get the ball, you get the spring roll, you get the intestines? Lexi  Yep. Ben  And sometimes you get that like charred version of whatever meat it is, as well. I love it. I'll eat it all.Lexi  Hey, speaking of intestine meats, do you hotpot?Ben  I have hotpotted. It isn't something I'd call a regular, but it's good because--Lexi  Okay.Ben  --you just reminded me of something I tried not long ago that I love, and I will continue eating, which is a version of pig intestines that are cooked, sort of deep fried, sort of battered. Lexi  Okay. Ben  They come from a local restaurant. It's a Chinese dish and it is the best. Lexi  I'll try anything. Ben  I have no problem. [Lexi chuckles] Yeah. If you're not allergic to it, why not? Lexi  Well, I mean, again, like I said, my family is Scottish, and so, I don't get the big deal, like when people are like, "Ew, haggis!" I'm like, "Are you eating a hotdog right now? Same thing."Ben  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've got no problems with haggis. I've made haggis. Nothing. Nothing wrong with intestine meat, folks. If you're gonna eat an animal, you might as well eat as much of that animal as you can. Lexi  Yeah, make it worth it's... You know, it honors the animal. Ben  Don't be disrespectful to its death. Okay, wait. We never go on tangents, as everyone knows. It's never happened. It will never happen again. Since we're talking food, one of the things that I'm super interested in is lab-grown meat protein. Lexi  Ooh, interesting. Ben  Are you down with that? Lexi  Oh, yeah. Ben  Does it gross you out? Lexi  No. Ben  Right?Lexi  Fuck it. Just do it.Ben  I feel like, if we have a way of making meat protein that we don't have to kill something, why would we not do that?Lexi  I'm all about sustainable agricultural practices and meat pr... Like, if there's a way that we can be cruelty free, and have access to your protein source, do it up. If there's a way that we can sustainably produce food for our massive population?Ben  Mm-hmm.Lexi  Do it. I don't care if it's bugs. I don't care if it's lab-grown.Ben  Vertical farming, yo.Lexi  Yeah. I wish that people would do that more. Ben  I'm probably allergic to bugs, unfortunately. Lexi  How do you know? Ben  I don't know for sure, but I'm too scared to try. I was reading an article about, you know, this sort of advent of bug food and all that, and there was sort of a caveat, at one point, about how people who are allergic to shellfish are--Lexi  Oh!Ben  --more often allergic to bugs, as well, due to a shared protein. Lexi  Okay, I can see that.Ben  And, I am allergic to shellfish so I will die when we all transition to bug food. I will starve.Lexi  Well, my hope is that the people who can eat the bug food, do eat the bug food, so that you can have...Ben  No. All the beef and pork and chicken--Lexi  But, lab grown, right? That seems fine. Like, I don't see what the big deal is. Just eat it.Ben  I've definitely run into folks that I talked about it, and they're like, "I don't trust science, and I'm not gonna eat lab-grown stuff," and I'm like, "Okay."Lexi  Do you remember back in like, the late '80s, early '90s, there was like, an Easy-Bake oven, but it was for gummies.Ben  Yeah, my sisters had one. Lexi  We ate that shit. What's the difference between eating crap like that, or, like, all of the different snack foods?Ben  Oh, we're gonna go on a tangenty tangent, a tangent from our tangent, which is now we're getting into, "Just take the fucking vaccine."Ben  "You don't know what's in it? You don't know what's in that package of Oreos you ate either, but you ate it all. [Lexi laughs] Take the fucking vaccine."Lexi  [frustratedly] Oh.Lexi  Like, "You just pounded a Monster energy drink, You're fine."Ben  Yeah. "You know what all those ingredients are? I don't think you do."Lexi  No.Ben  "So stop coming up with 'scuses. 'Scuses is what I call excuses when I feel angry. [Lexi laughs] Call 'em 'scuses. [Lexi laughs] You know I'm mad when I say 'scuses. Stop coming up with 'scuses and just take the jab. I've done it. Lexi did it. We're fine."Lexi  Yep.Ben  "Everyone's fine."Lexi  We're fine. Ben  "Stop it."Lexi  If anything, I feel stronger. Ben  I feel better, and my Wi-Fi has never been better.Lexi  I just like being able to eat in a restaurant. Ben  Yeah.Lexi  Like, go do things. Like, be a part of society again.Ben  I'm still holding back a bit because I've got a two year old who cannot get vaccinated at this point and a soon-to-be infant, and I have to be ultra-cautious, and...Lexi  Yeah.Ben  I would be lying to myself if I said my lifestyle had really changed at all since before I had kids or was... I've always been a shut-in misanthrope, so...Lexi  I will say, like, we're homebodies at the best of time, so, like, I've gone to friends' houses less, and we've eaten out maybe five times in the past year?Ben  Yeah, seeing less friends means, instead of two to three times a year, it's been once, from a distance.Lexi  Yeah. You're just waving across the parking lot at somebody.Ben  Okay, the lab-grown meat brings us to an ethical quandary, which is, would you eat extinct animals if they could grow that meat in a lab?Lexi  Mmm, that's a great question.Ben  So they found some genetic data and they're able to, you know, bring us a dodo. Just, they can't make the dodo live again, but they can bring us dodo protein. We can find out what that dodo tasted like. Would you do it?Lexi  Okay, so here's the thing about me. I feel like fancy foods are wasted on me. As we have heard, I garbage trash, so someone coming to me and being like, "Oh, this very fancy, like Wagyu beef," I'm like, "Arg, I can't tell." Like, one time, my uncle gave John and I like a sip of whiskey from this, like, it was like a super fancy, really old, like, $1,000 bot-- like, I don't know. I was like, "It tastes like burning. I don't know."Ben  Yeah. Lexi  Like, fancy things are wasted on me.Ben  I'm the same with coffee.Lexi  Yeah, coffee is coffee is coffee.Ben  I love coffee. I used to be a huge coffee snob. You have a kid and see how long that lasts. You know what I drink now? No Name brand instant coffee and I fucking love it. It's fine.Lexi  I know. I've had it. [laughs] Every time I go out, and I find instant coffee. I think of you guys. I'm like, "Oh, I should buy this for Ben and Fiona."Ben  No, see, when you were by, you had fancy Nescafe, and then I found out all the ethical issues with that company.Lexi  Yes. Then you stopped wanting to buy it.Ben  Yeah, and now we get No Name brand, which is an actual name of a brand from Superstore chain here where we live, and it's about as cheap and unassuming as you can get, and that's what I drink now, and it's fine. I have no problems with it. I've lost... [Lexi laughs] I've lost any sort of foodie snobbery that I used to have. It's gone.Lexi  Years and years ago, we went to Amsterdam for Christmas-- or, no, for New Year's Eve, and it was awesome. Best New Year's Eve ever, but a friend of ours who booked the trip, he asked his credit card company, for some reason, to-- he was on the phone like, "Hey, just so you know, my credit card hasn't been stolen. I'm going to Amsterdam. By the way, do you have any recommendations?" And the person was like, "Yeah, there's this really awesome Japanese restaurant. If you want, I'll book it for you," and he was like, "Yeah, for sure." And so, we wound up going to this restaurant. I couldn't tell you the name of it. Later on, we found out it was like this three-star Michelin Japanese restaurant, and I don't know. I just went and I was like, "This. Bring me this food. I don't know."Ben  That's a great, like, chunk of this story is the fanciest place you've ever eaten, and it sounds like that was it.Lexi  Oh, it was so fancy. Ben  The three-star Japanese place that you can't remember the name of.Lexi  I'll find it. It was, to this day, the best food I've ever had in my life. There was, like, wine pairings with everything. It was, like, six courses or something. Everything was like the size of a loony.Ben  Yeah.Lexi  Just absolutely tiny. I had to have-- a person came and explained to you how to eat the food, and it was unbelievable. What's the fanciest food you've ever had?Ben  So we went to Italy--Lexi  Ooh.Ben  --for a book festival. I got to tag along with Fiona, and we were there for, it's called Luca. That's the name of a town and the name of the festival. It's a comic book festival. Huge deal there. But we flew into Milan and we're jet lagged as F. I don't know what time it is. The lighting's all weird. We crossed like the famous, like, Milan Canal and it's drained and full of garbage 'cause apparently, they were doing some sort of construction work somewhere along the line. I'm like, "What the fuck is happening? Where am I? What's going on?" And then, our hosts take us into this beautiful tiny, little hole-in-the-wall restaurant, and it's like one of those, what are they called now? The arch where they start, like, doing funny food with, like, the intent of it being more like scientific. Why can't I remember this word?Lexi  Gastro?Ben  Gastro... something. Yeah, I got the gastro. I don't know what the other part is.Lexi  The fancy food. The sciency.Ben  Yeah.Lexi  The science people make the food.Ben  Yeah, they were doing that sort of thing. Yeah, we have these beautiful meals. They're just fantastic. I have no idea where we are. I'm just like this, like, boorish, slovenly-looking north American person who's just like dazed and confused, and yeah. It turns out, he's like, "Did you enjoy the food?" our host, and I'm like, "Yeah. It's great. It's lovely." And he's like, "This is a Michelin-starred restaurant. It's like one of the best in Milan," and I was like, "Oh, okay."Lexi  Cool. Ben  And I feel like I wasn't adequately appreciative enough, and then they brought out this strawberry-- or no, wait, wait, wait, wait. They brought out what looked like a strawberry or tomato. I can't-- you can tell how jetlagged I was.Lexi  Oh, it was a red thing. Ben  Yeah, and I tried to eat it, and then it all, sort of like, evaporated in on itself and melted down, and it was like a dessert cream or something. It was insane. And it was also like a fever dream. And then we went to this weird old church that was converted into a hotel and slept in a room, and I didn't know where I was or what was happening so I just played on my DS, [chuckles] and couldn't fall asleep.Lexi  Like a true Canadian. [chuckles] There was one restaurant we went to, 'cause we drove to San Francisco, maybe like 10 years ago, eleven, whatever. We drove to San Francisco, and we went to this place 'cause John went down there 'cause, when he was working for Apple, he was at Cupertino for a bit, and he took me to this restaurant called Scoma's, and it was a place where like, there's pictures of JFK eating there, you know, like, and Marilyn Monroe, one of those types of places where the waiters are like 70.Ben  Legacy.Lexi  And it is probably the best seafood I've ever had in my life. Like, I had ravioli with like a big lobster tail and, like, the place where they the boats come and drop off the fish is like 10 feet away from the restaurant. Ben  Mm-hmm. Lexi  Oh.Ben  All the best meals I've had are at restaurants I can't remember the names of.Lexi  This is the only one where I'll remember it. Scoma's. So good. Ben  Yeah, getting to tag along on book tours and that sort of thing, I've been to just a wild variety of restaurants in places that I just can't remember.Lexi  Ooh, I've got a question.Ben  Hit me.Lexi   If you were going to travel to any country for cuisine, where would you go?Ben  I think it's France, for me. I think that's been... Well, hold up. You asked if I could travel somewhere to try the cuisine, not where I'd go back to if-- Like, what my favorite cuisine I think is, generally speaking, French cooking.Lexi  Interesting.Ben  My favorite experiences, generally speaking, have been in France. It's been just lovely going there. Lexi  Oh.Ben  The food is fantastic. The people are lovely. I think they get a bad rap overall. [both laugh] They're all dressed lovely, though, and I always feel like