Podcasts about Sicilian

In “How a Humble Crab Dish Became the Soul of Tampa,” Gravy producer Nicole Hutcheson travels across Tampa to trace the story of a lesser-known local dish—crab chilau. Every city has a dish that says something true about the people who built it. In Tampa, that dish is crab chilau. Made with blue crabs and simmered in tomatoes, garlic, spices, and served over pasta, crab chilau is shaped by Sicilians, Cuban and Afro-Cuban families, and Tampa's Black community—each group adding a twist to make it their own. Hutcheson's journey travels from historic Ybor City to rapidly gentrifying corridors of the city, and even knee-deep into the marshy waters of Tampa Bay. Along the way, she meets the people carrying crab chilau forward today: Enzo Pardo, a Sicilian chef reimagining the dish through his own heritage; Jesus Puerto, a Tampa native who returned home after decades away to stake his claim; and Reggie Nelson, an enterprising businessman and chef building a name for himself while preserving a culinary legacy rooted in community. Listeners hear first-hand how crab chilau isn't a single recipe. Instead it's what happens when different cultures, customs, and lived experiences come together in the same pot and city. No one version is the same—some are spicier, some brown the sauce until it resembles a stew. Others keep it closer to a sofrito. Add-ins like ground beef, smoked sausage, and snow crab aren't deviations; they're evidence of a dish built to evolve and feed a crowd. Through personal encounters in kitchens, restaurants, and the outdoors, Hutcheson shares how crab chilau reflects the way Tampa's food culture itself was built: informally, collaboratively, and without a singular owner. From cooks freestyling the pot to meals designed to nourish entire neighborhoods, the dish tells a larger story about gathering, creativity, and culture. Crab chilau is a living record of how cultures meet and adapt. Listeners will walk away from this episode with a deeper sense of Tampa's identity and place in the American South. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we delve into the intricate world of the Chicago Outfit’s informants, featuring insights from my late friend, Cam Robinson, and Paul Whitcomb, a well-respected expert on the mob. This special compilation draws from past interviews and shorts that once highlighted various informants who operated during the notorious 1980s era of organized crime in Chicago. Through a series of concise segments, we explore the lives of key players who chose to turn against the Outfit, revealing the complex motivations and consequences of their decisions. We kick things off by revisiting the tale of Paul “Peanuts” Pansko, an influential figure leading the Polish faction of the Outfit. Pansko's criminal activities, including a racetrack heist, not only placed him in dangerous territory but also set into motion a chain of events that would later link to the infamous Family Secrets trial. It's during this journey that we outline how interconnected the informants’ narratives are, showcasing how Pansko’s actions inadvertently unraveled parts of the organization.   The discussion shifts to more dramatic stories, including Mario Rainone. Rainone's infamous decision to cooperate with the authorities opened the door to significant revelations about Lenny Patrick, one of the highest-ranking Outfit members to switch sides. Rainone's tapes ultimately led to the dismantling of major sections of the Outfit’s operations, including political connections that had long shielded them from legal repercussions.   We also explore the tale of Ken “Tokyo Joe” Eto, a Japanese mobster who thrived within the Outfit’s ranks. His attempts at self-preservation after surviving an assassination effort highlighted the stark realities faced by those who navigated the perilous landscape of organized crime. As he eventually became a witness for the prosecution, Eto’s insights illuminated the internal workings of one of Chicago’s most feared organizations. The episode further examines dramatic betrayals and deadly encounters that shaped the Outfit’s legacy. From the chilling events surrounding the murders of the Spilotro brothers, orchestrated by their own associates for reasons steeped in loyalty and betrayal, to the grim fate that met informants like Al Toco and the impact of domestic discord on organized crime, each tale is a window into the bleak realities faced by both mobsters and informants alike. As we round out the episode, we reflect on the cultural dynamics surrounding informants, particularly how personal relationships and family ties heavily influenced their decisions to cooperate. It becomes clear through the interviews that while fear of retribution often compels loyalty, the specter of betrayal looms large within the mob. This multifaceted examination blends personal stories with historical context, providing a deeper understanding of the Chicago Outfit’s complexity and its operatives. Join us in this retrospective journey through the shadows of organized crime as we pay homage to those who bravely shared their stories, revealing the inner workings of a criminal empire that continues to fascinate and terrify in equal measure. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00] Well, hey, guys, after listening to Bob Cooley, one of the more damaging sources and witness and informant to the Chicago Outfit outside of the Calabrese family, [0:13] Nick and his nephew, Frank Jr., I got the rest of the Chicago Outfit informants on tap here. No, not really. They’re not coming in. But I did do a story. I did a series of shorts a few years, or I don’t know, two or three years ago, maybe. [0:32] I interviewed my late friend, Cam Robinson, rest in peace, Cam. So you get to hear from him again. And Paul Whitcomb, who is a Chicago outfit expert, he’s been on this. They used to have some kind of a round table show up there. I don’t know if they still have it or not with the Seiferts. But anyhow, I got these guys to sit down with me and talk about all the different informants in Chicago during the, it was during the 80s. So this is just kind of a series of shorts that I put up before. They’re six or eight minutes long, I think, each one of them, that they talk about different informants. This kind of threw it together as another little bonus episode we’ve done. And I went to Chicago, if you notice, after Johnny Russo, which I apologize for in a way, I don’t know. I mean, the guy’s got some crazy-ass stories, doesn’t he? Who am I to say that he didn’t do it? But most people know that he didn’t do most of that stuff. Anyhow, so I threw up another Chicago right away about the guy that had the race wire that they killed, James Reagan. [1:38] Then i had this interview that i’d been doing during those last couple weeks with bob cooley who’s appeared uh out of nowhere and he’ll maybe see him on some other shows now he’s he’s wanting to do shows he tells me so after hearing bob cooley talk i thought well i’m doing do one more i want to just throw it up as an extra uh from some of my old chicago outfit stuff and that’ll finish me off on the Chicago outfit for a while. I hadn’t, I hadn’t been in Chicago, uh, doing shows about Chicago for quite a while. And, and I didn’t want to, uh, neglect you guys. You know, I get a lot of books written about New York and I’ve got all these authors that are wanting to do these books about New York. Uh, not so much about Chicago. So if you got anybody that, you know, wants to, got a book and wants to come on the show, uh, talking about the outfit, why steer them to me. So anyhow, just sit back and relax and enjoy. [2:37] My late, great friend, Cam Robinson. One more look at Cam, for those of you who remember him, and Paul Whitcomb. And we’re going to talk about famous snitches from Chicago. Thanks, guys. Well, let’s move along now to, this is kind of interesting, Paul Peanuts Panczko, who was the leader of the Polish branch of the outfield. Is that what you would call Peanuts Panczko, the leader of the Polish branch? If the Polish branch is the Panczko family, which you could easily say there were three brothers, then yeah, that wouldn’t be right. We haven’t really done a show on them. I don’t know a whole lot about them other than they were released at all. So we said non-Italian, Peckerwood, as we call them at Kansas City, professional criminals who did a lot of business with different outfit people. And he did a robbery of a racetrack. I think it’s the Balmoral Racetrack. It’s the name of it. James Duke Basile and then Panczko was in trouble for that and he convinced Basile to come in and they did some talking remember anything about that situation, you know in a lot of ways you. [3:50] Panczko could be considered one of the first dominoes that eventually led to the Family Secrets trial. Panczko, as you said, led to Dookie Bazile, who they had done robberies together. Bazile led them to Scarpelli, who was a much higher guy. I mean, there’s debate, but he was, because there was a making ceremony at this time, but Scarpelli was pretty highly ranked. I mean, he was a known killer, and he was up there. He was in the wild bunch. But Scarpelli then did tell them about a lot of the things that Frank Calabrese had done. [4:28] He wasn’t known as well as Scarpelli had brought him up to be. And a lot of those things dominoed into what would eventually lead to family secrets years later. [4:42] Scarpelli, I think, did not know so much about Nick, but he did know about Frank. And so a lot of that information sort of filled in the gaps. And even though Frank Calabrese Jr. Led them led them to Nick They A lot of seeds were planted And can be traced back to Pianus Pansico Um. [5:01] So it is kind of an interesting line. Basile, he wore a wire on Scarpelli and not even talking about a lot of these things. It’s not the FBI knew about that. They were in a car together. Right. If I remember right, he even talked about a mob graveyard. They went up there and they found two or three bodies. One of them was connected. It wasn’t anybody really important, but one of them was connected to Harry Aleman. So it was a pretty important wearing of a wire on Scarpelli, who then came at himself for a while. And that’s what led to the family secrets. He talked about Frank Calabrese. Is that what you’re saying? Yeah, that’s right. And some of those bodies in that graveyard were 10 years apart, which was interesting. I’ve got, it’s on the map that I created, but some of those bodies, there was years in between them. So it was something they were going back to and they believed that there were a lot of things there they did not find. Yeah, because they built a health care facility or something. They built some big building over where there would have been bodies. Right. Right. And the fascinating thing about this is Scarpelli, like, just like Cam said, this guy was a serious killer. He was a muscle builder. He was a terrifying guy. I mean, he had almost inhuman physical strength. Yeah. And when he flipped, he was completely debriefed by the FBI and the DOJ and then decided to try and change his mind. [6:27] But before he could do that He hung himself in the bathroom Of the Metropolitan Correctional Center With his hands behind his back And a bag over his head, Who was he in prison with? Who was he in MCC with, Paul? Was it anybody? He did happen to be in the MCC with the German at the time. He bound his hands behind his back and put a bag over his own head. He did. He did. And so the outfit continues to somehow persuade people to take their own lives rather than testify against them. [7:07] It’s a hell of a way to die by suicide it is by suicide at least they didn’t have arrows in his back, not as far as we know yeah it was terrible he cut his own head off I saw a cartoon once that the homicide guy liked to go ahead and maybe real suckle of suicide because then you could just walk away from it so there’s a dead body laying there with a bunch of arrows at his back and a homicide detective standing over him with a hand and pencil and says, hmm, suicide, huh? [7:44] Got the inside joke. It worked homicide. You see how those guys sometimes will try to make something into a suicide that probably is a homicide. On the other hand, we had one, we had a mob guy, he wasn’t really a mob associate, who had gone to Vegas. He lost a lot of money and they found his body in his car at the airport parking lot after coming back from Vegas and they found out later lost a lot of money and the car was parked up against the fence and he was shot in the head and there was no gun in the car you know found so just assume that somebody shot him in his head the car kept going and rolling up against the fence. [8:25] But this one detective, I remember Bob Pence is his name. He was dumb. And he started, he went back over and he dusted that car for prints again. And he got some more evidence out of it. And then he went back to the airport and he looked and started asking questions. And he found out later that somebody who had a pickup truck parked there had a week later, three or four days later, come back and got his truck. When he got home he found a pistol inside the bed of his truck and he called the airport or he called somebody turned it in Pinson found that pistol that was a pistol that that shot the guy so Pinson's theory was he was rolling along in his car he shot himself in the head and then he flipped that pistol out is with a reaction he flipped it out and went in the bed in that pickup and then it rolled on up against the fence and they ruled it a suicide wow damn that’s not that different than Scarpelli I mean the fbi to this day insists it was suicide yeah well, Oh, well, right. All right. Let’s move along to Mario. John, the arm. Rainone. [9:41] Is that correct, Cam? That yeah, that’s Rainone. Yeah. So tell us about that. I know we talked about this, you know, a little bit about this one. [9:50] This is kind of a funny one. He was he was sent to kill a building inspector. Raynaud was with the Grand Avenue crew and so he’s en route to kill this guy and this is one of those mob blunders and he sees a couple guys following him and it’s Rudy Fredo and Willie Messino and he recognizes him when he’s driving over there and it’s important to point out who these guys are, Cam, not to interrupt you Willie Messino, was the right hand man and bodyguard for Tony Accardo for 30 years I mean, he was serious, serious business. Rudy Frayto, you know, the chin, but Massino was serious news. If you saw Willie Massino, you knew he were in for trouble. Yeah, he wasn’t there as backup to do anything except clean up after Rainone, including Rainone. So Rainone saw the writing on the wall. He pulls up and he goes straight to the FBI. [10:54] And he informs, he talks to them and gives them his information. And later on, he sort of regrets doing so, denies that he ever did. Uh, there were, there were, uh, articles written about him. There’s a, there’s a Chicago Tribune writer, John Cass, and Ray Nolan had a back and forth with him writing letters. This is how these mob guys in Chicago operate, talking about, I’m, I ain’t no beefer. And, uh. Once he was out of prison in 2009, he was busted several more times. If you can believe it, he stayed in the criminal life. He was robbing a liquor store with another guy. And the guy he was robbing with, this is why I jump ahead a little bit, was a guy named Vincent Forliano. He claimed that he didn’t even know Fratto or Messino. These were guys he didn’t know, so he never would have informed against them. The guy he was robbing the liquor store with and he was committing other robberies with, Vincent Forliano, was Fredo’s son-in-law. [11:56] So he was committing robberies with a guy related to the guy, but he didn’t know who they were. And to say that somebody didn’t know, as Paul said, Willie Messino, is just ludicrous. Anybody in the criminal atmosphere, period, knew who Willie Messino was because you were probably paying money to it. to exist. And this is extremely important because Rainone, at the time this happened, Rainone cooperated long enough to record conversations with Lenny Patrick. That’s right. That’s right. And that set dominoes in place that would lead to the fall of the outfit. Even though he tried to take back his cooperation, to say he never cooperated, I’ve heard those tapes that were played in trials that I participated in, so I I know better. Uh, and that’s why they call him Mario flip flop Rainone because he, uh, would cooperate and uncooperate and then cooperate. But he is the one who got Lenny Patrick on the hook. Yeah. [13:00] Interesting, interesting. Let’s just continue on with this Lenny Patrick because we weren’t going to talk about him. That’s a good lead hand to talk about another, really one of the most important informants that year who testified. [13:13] Can you talk about the domino that led to the end? Rainone really, really flipped the domino that kicked over. Go ahead, Paul. Well, Lenny Patrick was the highest, and even to this day, remains the highest ranking member of the outfit to ever turn state’s evidence. The guy was a capo in all but name. He had been in charge of Rogers Park, the gambling. He was essentially the head of the Jewish arm of the mafia, kind of the Meyer Lansky figure of Chicago. And when the Lawndale neighborhood moved north to Rogers Park, he moved with them, and he had his own crew. He reported directly to Gus Alex, who was, of course, at the very top, and Sam Carlisi. And he was dealing with Marcello and Carlesi in a number of different outfit ventures, loan sharking. He personally had been staked by Carlesi with a quarter million in cash to put out on the street. And he was involved in extortions Bombings of theaters All these things directly at the command of Sam Carlisi Who was then the boss of bosses of the Chicago outfit So when Rainone got him on tape They set up what was the beginning of the end for the outfit And I think people need to understand who Gus Alex is also For people outside of Chicago Gus Alex was. [14:40] Basically, I guess you could call him the equivalent of maybe the consigliere in Chicago. When you look at Chicago, the triumvirate in the 70s, once a guy like Paul Ricca died and several major outfit leaders died in the early 70s. [14:58] Tony Accardo decided that the outfit would be led by himself, by Joy Iupa, and the political wing and all of the non-Italians and all of the grift and a lot of aspects would be led by Gus Alex. So he was essentially on the same level as Joey Iupa, and he was responsible for much more for things of greater import than Joey Iupa. I mean, controlling the political arm and all the payoffs and all of that is much, much more than the streets and the murders. So all the politics and all the anything that had to do was definitely fell under gus alex and he was part of a ruling triumvirate he was a non-italian part of a ruling triumvirate with iupa and uh acardo so he was the the leader top of the outfit and he had been for years going back to going back to the 30s and the 40s 40 he had come up under, the Murray the Camel Humphreys and had made those connections he was the most connected guy in the Chicago outfit, so for a guy like Lenny Patrick to be. [16:15] Rollover against is essentially the political leader, national political leader and political leader of Chicago. This was absolutely crippling to the outfit. That was he wiped out the entire political arm of the Chicago outfit. After Lenny Patrick brought down Gus Alex, this became a basically a street crime organization. It was that those political contacts. I mean, I think that’s a fair statement, right, Paul? Those political contacts and judges, I mean, that was all but eliminated with Gus Alex going away. You’re absolutely right, Cam. And he not only took out Gus Alex, but he took out the boss of the Italians, too. That’s right, yeah. Both of them at the same time. He wiped out the outfit, and you put it beautifully by saying it became a street crime organization. You think about the division of labor and it started with IUP and IUP and. [17:19] La Pietra, Jackie Cerone, they had all the gambling, a lot of the sports gambling, but they also had the skim from Las Vegas, and they ran all that stuff, while Gus Alex, along with Lenny Patrick, ran all that politics, and you can’t have a mob organization if you don’t have cover politically. That’s why even in Kansas City, we’re pretty clean here, but we still never had any real mob prosecutions. [17:47] And it certainly had very few, if any, little, if any mob prosecutions at Cook County. And you couldn’t even get convicted of a real crime, murder, assault, or something. It’s just a straight-out crime. You weren’t even trying to do a RICO, I think, on anybody. So it was, you know, they just operated with impunity. Well, you took out that whole gambling side. That was all the money coming in. And then shortly thereafter, you take out the political side, who then turns back and gets the new boss on the gambling side and loan sharking and all that. [18:23] I’ll tell you, by 1990, the outfit’s gone. It really is. It still exists to a degree, but Sam Carlisi was the last traditional old line boss of the outfit. you, that, in my opinion, that ever ruled. After that, it was never the same. Yeah, I think a guy like Gus Alex, you know, like you said, Gary, you had Aiuppa who was dealing with gambling, but I think that’s a lot of, there’s a lot of optics to that, you know, and you’ve got all these cities who have got characters who are not Italian, Gus Alex in Chicago, and, you know, as Paul said, Meyer Lansky, who was New York, and you had Mashie Rockman in Cleveland, and these characters not italians so they know when to step back and let and let the italians talk but that doesn’t mean that they’re not running things it’s just for the optics of city to city where the italians have to see that they’re dealing with italians they don’t walk in the room it doesn’t mean that behind the scenes they’re not pulling the levers they just because of of the uh uh criminal um. [19:34] The the criminal view of of non-italians in that world sort of sort of their own prejudices these guys don’t always walk in the room when they’re dealing with other cities gus alex is is sitting down with anybody in chicago but you go to kansas city you go to new york, you know meyer lansky would leave the room when they were when they were talking you know italian to Italian. And the same thing with Gus Alex or Mace Rockman or any of those other guys who are not Italian. It was just an optics city to city. It doesn’t mean that they weren’t pulling the levers. Is it Yehuda or Jehuda, Cam? Jehuda. I’ve always heard of Jehuda. Yeah, Jehuda. So he kind of dealed with the IRS that year. [20:23] He must have had some. The IRS was really strong working the mob in Chicago. I’ve noticed several references to IRS investigations. We did not have that in Kansas City, and the IRS did a little bit, but they were not as strong as they were up in Chicago. [20:38] Yeah, he met with an agent, Tom Moriarty, who’s been around and worked Chicago for a long time. He was a pretty well-known guy up here. But Bill Jehota worked under Ernest Rocco Infelice, who was a real powerhouse going back a long time. And out in Cicero, and his crew, a lot of these crews had their own little names, and they called the good shit Lollipop. He was a huge gambling enterprise, you know. And they bought a house up in Lake County, which is north of the city. It’s funny, this house they bought was actually the family that had lived in it. The son had murdered the family. It was a murder house before the outfit bought it. and uh they bought it used it as a as a gambling den and and after that moved out they used it for prostitution and they would park cars at a nearby motel that they ran and then then have a uh a, valet service that drove him to this this gambling house and there was also quite a few uh murders that uhJahoda witnessed i’m sure he took no part in it he just happened to be standing outside of the house when they when they these murders were committed there was a uh was it hal smith and um. [21:57] Oh i can’t remember the they killed somebody else in this home and they burnt these were guys who didn’t want to pay his tree tags, and they were gamblers who refused to give in. And he brought down this entire crew. I mean, Rocco and Felice was… There’s a famous picture of the day after the Spolatros were killed. And it was really the upper echelon of the up that you’ve got. You’ve got little Jimmy Marcello. You’ve got the boss, Sam Wings-Carlesi. You’ve got the street boss, Joe Ferriola. And you’ve got Rocco and Felice, who’s right there. These are the four top guys, basically, in the outfit as far as at this time, the Cicero crew had risen to the top. That was the powerhouse crew. And so he was involved in those discussions because he was such a powerhouse out there with Ferriola being the street boss. So he was, it really can’t be thatJahodatestimony that eventually brought down this crew was really, it really crippled that crew for a long time. Well, those people that went down in that trial have only in the last five years come out of prison. Yeah, we’ve actually had been talking to somebody. We’ve had the… [23:13] Opportunity to meet he brought down uh uh robert um to go beat um bellavia and another guy who doesn’t like to be mentioned who runs a pretty successful pizza pizza chain up in lake county and uh these guys went down for a long time the beat was down for 25 years and he just came out. [23:39] So and billJahoda have if you read his testimony it is kind of kind of odd that he was standing outside of the building and just looked in the window and they were committing a murder and he just he he places himself outside of the house witnessing a murder through the window which is convenient when you’re the one testifying against murderers it certainly is yeah. [24:03] So so that was he was involved in the gambling so that makes sense then the irs got him and millions of dollars millions of dollars a month they were bringing and he met uh, i don’t remember paul and you did he he contacted moriarty right or did moriarty reach out to him because he was under investigation i i thought Jahoda was was worried about himself so he reached out to them i can’t remember the details i think you’re right yeah i i think he was worried about his own his own safety gary and he reached out to moriarty and they met up at a hotel just outside the city on the uh up in the northwest and uh they talked about things i actually found the location and on the little map you can find where where they met each other but he they met each other in disgust and they would meet different locations and and jahuda wore a wire and some of those some of those wiretaps are they really make for that. [25:05] That those conversations come right out of the movie just i love what we’re doing out here and i love my job and and you actually where i’m going to make you trunk music i mean you really hear these things that that you see it right in the movies i mean you you can’t write the dialogue that these guys are actually using it’s it’s it’s you know it it comes straight out of a book i mean You’ve got, you’ve got, uh, this is the toughest dialogue you’ll ever hear. Interesting. How’d you buy it? Where’d you find that at? Is that, uh, it’s probably not the audio in probably anywhere. No book or something. Yeah. You can, if you look up, if you look up different, different, you know, you go on newspapers.com or you go in different, uh, I believe, uh, I’ve got, um, uh, mob textbook by, um, Howard Abedinsky. I’ve got a couple of copies of his, of his textbook, organized crime. And he’s got some clips of it. This guy who owns a pizza shop up north is talking about how he loves his job. He loves what he does. And it’s funny to hear he talk about smashing somebody and loving what you do. Really? I’ve heard a few conversations like that back at the station house. [26:25] I don’t care. It’s on both sides. Is that what you’re saying? When you live in that world. Those guys can go either direction. [26:37] Well, let’s talk about ex-Chicago cops. Speaking of cops, let’s talk about, Vince Rizza, his daughter actually appeared on that Chicago Mob Housewives, or they tried to do a show. And Frank Schweiss’ daughter was on it. And Pia Rizza, who has gotten some notoriety as a model or something, I can’t remember. And she really, she was tight. She would not talk about her dad at all. I read an interview of her. She would just talk about her dad at all. But he came in and he testified against Harry Aleman, of all people, and linked him to the murder of this bookie, Anthony Ritlinger. Remember that one? [27:22] Go ahead, Paul. No, that one I’m not very up on, Cam. I’m sorry. So, Ritlinger, I believe he didn’t want to pay his street tax, if I’m right, Gary. Yeah, you’re right. He had been warned. Rattlinger had been warned that he needs to pay, he needs to pay, and he was making a good deal of money. And Ratlinger was he was brought in just the normal course of action with the wild bunch because he was a wild bunch murder I’m a little rusty but here it comes so he was a wild bunch killing, he was brought in he was warned it was the typical Harry Ailerman and if I’m remembering correctly and people correct me if I’m not it was Butch Petruccelli they sat him down. [28:11] Usually it would be Butch and, um, uh, Borsellino who would do the talking, uh, Tony Borsellino, and they would do the talking. And then afterwards, Butch Petruccelli would just sit down and glare. So he was a pretty scary guy. And he had that, uh, uh, Malocchio, the, the evil eye, and he would just glare at people. And that would send the message and Rattlinger didn’t, didn’t listen. He was making too much money, he’s not going to pay any damn Degos, that kind of line. And so he, of course, fell victim to these guys. And I believe he may have been trunk music. I think I remember this one, Matt, but I can’t remember. Yeah, I got this one. He went to a restaurant. That’s right. That’s right. And he had already, his daughter lived with him. I’m not sure about the wife, but he had warned his family to take all kinds of extra cautious. He knew something was coming. And it was, you know, after reading that thing, it’s, It’s kind of like, well, we talked about Spilotro taking off their jewelry. Ken Eto did this similar kind of a thing and told his wife he may not be coming back. [29:22] I tell you, another guy that did the same thing was Sonny Black. That’s right. It came out about Joe Pistone, the Donnie Brasco story. He did the same thing. He went to a sit-down or a meeting, and he took off his jewelry, I believe left his billfold, when he went to the meeting. this. Ken Eto was the same way. Ken Eto, I think, thought he could talk his way out. I think all of them thought they could talk their way out of it. So Rettlinger went out by himself and sat in a prominent place in this local restaurant that was really well known up there in the north side. It’s north of downtown Chicago, and I can’t remember the name of it. [30:02] And he just sat there and pretty soon a car pulls up and two guys run in kind of like a Richard Cain kind of a deal and just start popping. And that was a Harry Aleman deal. That’s right. He did, I believe. There’s an old guy who married the girlfriend of Felix Adlericio, I believe. He and this woman are sitting out in front of their brownstone, and Aleman and some other dude pull out and get out when guys walk up to him and shoot him and kill him. [30:31] And so that was – Yeah, that was Petrocelli and Aleman walked up, And he had been, he had been dating, uh, uh, Aldericio’s, Alderico’s girlfriend. Now that’s the famous hit from beyond the grave. Because we’re going to go on the old Samuel’s just sitting in the lawn chair thinking he’d got it made. That’s right. You know, Gary, you and I did the show on the outfit, uh, a long time ago. No, I’m sorry. On the wild bunch, a long time ago. So a lot of those, and they did so much work back in the day. A lot of those run together, but yeah, you’re now, uh, now that you’re right, writing her was he was eating in a restaurant. I’m, Uh, I can’t remember the name. It may have been, been Luna’s, but he was, went out in public. He thought he’d be safe. And like you said, a lot of these guys have a six cents because they come up on the street and they know these things. And, uh, like a guy like Sammy and Reno knew it was coming. He was dodging them for a long time, but they, they know that their time is coming. Eventually they just, they stay ahead of it for a while and figure they can fight their way out or talk their way out. And yeah, they, he was blown away right in public. Like it was similar to the, I remember it being similar to the, to the Richard Cain murder. And this was in, it was right around the same time. It was, it was in the mid seventies, 75, 74, 75, 76. It might’ve been 75 that writing or happened right, right in the middle of the restaurant. [31:58] I’ve been a lot cheaper to pay the street tax, I reckon. You know, and it wasn’t, I don’t recall that they’re asking for so much, but once these murder started happening yeah i think it was it wasn’t like it was half or 75 i think they just wanted it was you know it might have been a quarter it might have just been a flat fee across the board but once that street tax was was instituted i mean we’ve talked about this before gary that was when the wild bunch was out there that was that was they really didn’t play around When Ferriola told these guys, get everybody in line, [32:31] they really cracked down and they weren’t playing at all. You pay or you die. And guys like Alem and Patrick Shelley, whether it was right in public or whatever, in the outfit in the 70s, Paul, you know this from Richard Cain and several others. They just write in public would just blow you away. and writing her was just was almost textbook just like the Richard Cain it was it was right in the right in the restaurant yeah I’ll tell you I’ll tell. [33:05] I was conflating him with Hal Smith. Okay. I’ll tell you something about those mob hits. When they kill somebody in public like that in a public way, more than likely it’s because whoever the victim is has been alerted, and they can’t get anybody to get close to them. They will already try to send somebody around to get them isolated, and when they can’t get them isolated, then they want them bad enough. They’ll just lay, as Frank Calabrese, I heard him say once, well, lay on them. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. Well, lay on them. I read that somewhere else. They use that term when you’re following somebody and you’re trying to set them up, or yet they lay on them. Calabrese even said, you know, you’re like, get an empty refrigerator box and hide inside of it. I mean, it’s just like the kind of stuff we used to do at the intelligence unit to run surveillances on people. And so they’ll lay on them for a while until they can get you somewhat isolated. And if they can’t, then they’ll just take you out in public. It might be to send a message, but I don’t think so because it’s so risky to get somebody in public. You can have a young, all-fitty cop in there that you didn’t even notice, and he comes out blazing. And, you know, it’s just not worth it. Even if you take him out, he’s probably got to get you. [34:21] So it’s kind of a last resort. A desperation. Yeah, it’s desperation because they can’t get you isolated. [34:28] You look at some of these public murderers, guys like Richard Cain or Ridinger, like you said, who was on the watch. Sam Annarino, who was right on Cicero. [34:39] A guy like Chris Carty, who was years later. I mean, these are guys who would have been smart enough and street smart enough to be on the watch, to watch their step, to know what was going on. With the exception of a guy like Michael Cagnoni, who just happened to be difficult to get, and he probably might have had an idea that something was happening, but I think just he was a family guy, and so it was hard to isolate. They blew him up on the interstate, but I think that in general, that’s a good point, Gary. These guys, if they just run up and blow away, it’s just a last resort. That’s an excellent point. I have always been in that camp of, oh, that must be sending a message. But you, with your experience, I think you’re exactly right. One thing, guys, I think we’re mixing up Sambo Cesario with Sam Annarino. I was thinking when they – yeah, you’re right, Paul. I was thinking, though, when they blew away Sam Annarino in the parking lot with his family, though, they had been trying to get him for several months. And they finally just went after him in the parking lot, called in a robbery, and blew him away in the furniture store parking lot. That was what I meant. Yeah, Gary was referring to Sambo earlier. I just meant they had been trying to get Sam Annarino for a long time, and when they couldn’t, they just got him in the parking lot. [36:08] Well, interesting. You know, no matter how much terror these guys strike in the heart of their underlings, in the end, they still will turn once in a while. And I think people don’t really not turn because they’re afraid of getting killed so much if they don’t turn because they don’t want to have their family suffering the disgrace of them being a rat or a snitch. I think that’s more important to be a man and go out like a man in this subculture and believe me I’ve lived in a subculture where being a man and being a tough guy is more important than anything else, I think that’s the most important thing that keeps people from coming in you’re like a wimp you’re a puss, you can’t take it, can’t handle it you know what I mean you can’t handle five years I could do five years standing on my head or a tray like the dude told me so uh you know but even even with all that and still there’s a certain percentage that will end up coming in sure and usually there are people that either don’t care about their family like lenny patrick yeah or that don’t have close family so that they don’t have it so much of that pressure that you’re talking about gary because you make a really valid point that that that cultural value is so strong yeah yeah it’s it’s. [37:36] In a lot of these small towns, you see in Detroit where they’re all family tied in and everything, you don’t see informants. I think they’ve had one. Kansas City, as you said, Gary, you don’t see. But then you look at a place like Rochester where they’re all just lower tier mob guys. Everybody was informing on everybody because they really weren’t as upper echelon sort of mob guys. So I think that, like you said, once you get that culture seeped in, you’ve got those families and all, there’s a lot of factors. But if it’s a deep-rooted mob town, you really don’t see a lot of real informants. [38:11] So, guys, now we’ve got one that I did a show on. I did a couple of shows on him. I talked to the FBI agent who brought him in and dealt with him for quite a while. Ken Tokiojo Eto. He survived a murder attempt. When that didn’t happen for him with the outfit, what happened after that? [38:32] I believe his attempted assassins got killed themselves. So tell me a little bit about Tokyo Joe Eto. There’s a photograph I have from the late 50s, early 60s And it shows Joe Ferriola And a couple of other heavyweights Hanging around with a young Ken Eto, And a lot of people didn’t know who Ken Eto was But he ran the Japanese game, Gambling, Bolita And lots of money Poured into the outfit through Tokyo Joe As they called him And there was a rumor that perhaps Tokyo Joe was going to turn under a little bit of pressure. And so Jasper Campisi put three slugs in the back of his head. [39:22] Miraculously, he survived three slugs at point blank range. And if he wasn’t going to turn state’s evidence before, he certainly had a powerful incentive to do so now. He seems to insist As I’ve heard that he was not His intention was not It’s hard to say at this point But he says he had no intention Of flipping and that he’s not sure What the evidence was against him But he was not going to flip until, It was Yeah. [39:55] I’m drawing a blank, Paul. Who was it that sent? It wasn’t the saint. It was Vincent Solano. He was kind of Vincent Solano, who was a union guy and a made guy up there. He kind of had which one. [40:11] He was a capo. And which crew was it? Do you remember? He was on the north side. North side crew. North side crew. And actually, Ken went to Vince Solano and had a talk with him. Said you know what i can do this he was looking at a tray i had a dude tell me what’s that pressure and tried to get him to talk and he said uh he said what am i gonna get out of this a tray he said man i can do a tray standing on my head and i threw him right then that’s right gotta talk to me so uh and that’s all he had to do but solano for some reason uh who knows what was in his head because uh ken Eto had made him a lot of money a lot of money and he was a tough little dude he had he had survived he had been put in the uh concentration camps if you will during the internment camps yeah internment camps and then came as a young man up chicago and been around for a long time by the time this all came down he’d been with him for a long time and made him a lot of money and all kinds of different gambling operations but particularly the bolita. [41:13] So uh it just didn’t make sense i heard one thing that these guys in chicago got the idea Yeah, to keep the noise down, they were loading their own rounds with lighter loads of powder. I don’t know. They had like a hit car up there. The guys in Chicago were pretty sophisticated or tried to be. And so they used these lighter loads. And when it went into his head, it just didn’t penetrate his skull. I remember I was at the hospital once, and there was a young guy who had gotten shot in the head. And they said that the bullet was not a good bullet because it went in under his skin and then went under his scalp, along his skull, and then lodged up on his forehead. [41:56] Wow. And so Eto was kind of the same way. Those bullets were probably lodged up underneath his scalp. He pulled himself to a neighboring, I believe it was a pharmacy that was right there, a corner store. And then that guy went to help him. I think he had to dial a call of 911 or whatever. 911 was in place then. He had to call for help for himself from a phone booth. You know, he saved his own life by being smart and playing dead. Yeah, that’s right. And you look at Chicago, it’s a city of neighborhoods, and you’ve got the Mexican town, and you’ve got the different towns, and you’ve got Chinatown where there’s so much money and so much gambling. And while Haneda was Japanese and there’s obviously division between Japanese and Chinese, it would be much easier for him to go in and then some of these outfit guys and because of different things going on back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. But he could go into neighborhoods and represent the outfit in ways in different communities that the outfit wouldn’t go into or a lot of these made guys. [43:12] And that gave him entry into a lot of communities. In the Asian community, there’s a lot of gambling that he was able to tap into. He was smart enough to see that as a route that maybe the Italian guys didn’t, just like Lenny Patrick, who we’ve talked about in other episodes, had that access into the Jewish communities and other Jewish gangsters. There’s a lot of gambling there. If you can get somebody who has an in to different communities, that’s really a way to go and that’s part of why he made so much money. A game like BolEto wouldn’t normally be and that’s huge in the Hispanic communities and huge with Asians also. You know in kansas city that’s interesting that you should point that out camp we had a um large vietnamese community moved in after the the boat peoples when it started and they moved in through the same church uh. [44:09] Sacred Heart Church and Don Bosco Center that the Italians moved in, the Sicilians moved into back in the turn of the century, the same neighborhoods. And Italians are getting successful and they’re moving out the suburbs and the Vietnamese are moving in and creating the Vietnamese restaurants and Vietnamese shops. And they brought, they have a love for gambling. Like you said, they have huge love for gambling. They don’t drink so much or do so many drugs, but they do love to gamble, it seemed to me like. [44:36] And so they had their own book. he was called the king a guy a friend of mine told me a story uh there’s a mob book he got on the periphery that neighborhood’s got a joint and he he was running a sports book and he had a lot of action going in and out of his joint so this one vietnamese guy had a big debt owed to the king so he goes down and talks to this guy’s name was Larry Strada, he ends up getting killed by some other uh mobsters in a deal they thought he was going to testify but i just needed to hear are there, this young, middle-aged Vietnamese guy goes down to the Caddyshack, Larry Strada’s bar. And he starts telling him about the king. He said, man, he said, the king, you take all your business. He said, he got all business down here. He take all your business. He said, you know, you need to do something about the king. He said, you know, we’re close to the river here. And then he made a motion across his throat like he was cutting his throat. So he was trying to get out of his gambling debt to convince this Italian, La Cosa Nostra bookie to go back and kill me yeah king piano. [45:42] You know i’ve heard a lot of stories and some of them are true some are not that one had to ring a truth to it it had a definite ring of truth that that got to do that playing them against each other yeah you bet and you know another thing about tokyo joe and you know he could testify But Ben Solano had Campizé and Gattuso killed right away. Found them in the trunk of their car, I think. Maybe at the airport, even. [46:09] Chicago trunk music, but they have some saying like that. And so Solano knew that they could testify against him, and they didn’t want to go down for attempted murder, more than likely, and he just didn’t take a chance. So he had them killed, and I can’t remember if he went down behind this or not. But another thing Tokyo Joe was able to do, I mean, he certainly could expose all the inner workings of what he knew about to the FBI, which gives you a lot of tips on where to go, who to work on, and maybe where to throw up microphones or some wiretaps. But he also traveled around he came to Kansas City during the skimming trial because they’re working on the Chicago hierarchy. So they just fly him into town. They show him that picture, the last separate picture where everybody’s in the picture. And they say, now, who’s that? Oh, that’s Aiuppa. Okay, then who’s that? Oh, that’s Vince Solano. Yeah, he reports to Aiuppa. You know, and who’s that guy? I can’t remember the other people at all. So the nation said that Joe is up hard. Oh, yeah, he reports to this guy. So to show the organization of the mob in Chicago and that it is an organization that gives orders to have other people carry it to make the RICO case, that he was a storyteller for that. And he didn’t know anything about the skim at all. But he was a storyteller on getting the mob name and the organization in front of a jury. That’s huge, as you know, Paul. [47:35] Absolutely. We had a similar arrangement during the Carlesi trial about how [47:40] the Carlesi crew operated and who was who, and to tell the story. Yeah. You have to make it a story. Let’s take a look at Betty Toco, which, uh, this is pretty interesting. There was a, um, I’m not sure. Albert Toco was your husband. Remind me what his position was at the outfit at that time. So Al Toco was, there’s sort of a division on who was the leadership of, who was the central leader of Chicago Heights. There’s Dominic Tuts Palermo and Al Toco, who was really a powerhouse in Chicago Heights. And Tuts Palermo was definitely highly connected and across the pond too, also in Italy. But uh Toco was involved in the in the chop shop wars really really heavily involved and he had a lot of connections in chicago too he was involved with lombardo and a lot of these chop shops throughout chicago he had a lot of partnerships and so this was a 30 million dollar a year racket stolen cars chop shops international car rings uh car rings throughout stolen car rings throughout the country. Toco was responsible for burying the Spolatro brothers. It was very sectioned off. Each crew had a part in their murder. And then Chicago Heights was responsible for the burial. [49:02] And they were down in Enos, Indiana. They got kind of turned around a little bit. They were down a farm road. They were burying them in a freshly tilled field. And the road where they’re on, there’s a little side road that you would drive down. There’s very little down there. I’ve, I’ve seen it, but a car happened to come down middle of night and they were in a, there’s a, there were a couple of feet off of a wooded area and they see this car coming down and they sort of all panicked and before they had a chance to cover the area or really do anything, it just looked like a freshly dug, it really just looked like freshly dug mound. And so they all fled and three of Toco’s guys went one way and he went the other. They had the car in both radios. [49:46] He’s wandering around barefoot, and he calls his wife finally. She shows up, and he’s screaming and yelling. And he runs to Florida, and he’s waiting for permission to come back from Joe Ferriola. He’s worried he’s going to get killed because they find the Spallachos immediately because the farmer sees his field all messed up, freshly tilled ground, and it looks really suspicious, like somebody had been poaching deer and burying the carcass. Uh but Toco was a tyrant to his wife he was he was horrible to her he was he was when you think of what a mob guy was that was Toco you know tipping the guy who mows his lawn the kid who mows his lawn hundred bucks and wandered around town everybody knows him but he’d come home and unlike a lot of these guys he was he was a real you know a real. [50:36] Real bastard to his wife you know and for years she put up with this sort of abuse and finally after this this happened and it was in the news and all he finally pushed her too far and she began informing on him and and he was arrested later on he was in his jail cell talking about all the murders he had committed and and this and that about his wife and uh his his uh uh A cellmate repeated everything that he said to try and lessen his sentence. So really, Toco got buried by his big mouth and his terrible behavior. He initially fled to Greece before he was arrested, and they extradited him back from Greece. So this is, I mean, Toco is like deep in mob behavior. [51:22] I mean, fleeing the country and all. I mean, it doesn’t get much more mafia than Al Toco. I hesitate to use that word with Chicago, but that was, Al Toco was running deep. and that Betty Tocco’s testimony eventually led to the trial of Al Tocco. And that was really a blow to the Chicago Heights crew that nowadays, I mean, they continued on and had a few rackets, but after the eventual trial that stemmed from that, it really wasn’t, there’s not much activity now. I’m in that area and there’s just, there’s really nothing here. [51:59] Interesting. Now, so Tony and Michael Spilotro had been lured to somebody’s house on the promise that Michael was going to be made. It’s my understanding. I believe that’s what Frank Collada had reported. And some other people, not part of the Chicago Heights crew, killed him. How did that go down? And how did they pass off the body? You guys, is there anything out there about that? Wasn’t that the family secrets trial, maybe? It was. And, of course, it’s been popularly portrayed in the movie Casino. And it’s surprisingly accurate Except for the fact That where they were beaten But what happened was Little Jimmy Marcello called them. [52:41] And said Sam, meaning Sam Carlisi, the boss, wanted to see them. And they knew that that was ominous because of what was going on beyond the scope of this show. But they took off the jewelry. They left. They told their wives, if we’re not back by 930, it’s not good. They really did not suspect that it was to make Michael. That’s what Collada said. You’re absolutely right about that, Gary. But I don’t think that’s correct at all. They knew that it was bad. And they went. He took a pistol, which was against the rules. They hit him a pistol. Tony hit a pistol on his brother, which you do not do when you go to see the boss. And they were picked up by, by Marcello and taken to a house. I, uh, was it Bensonville? Yeah. Up in Bensonville. Uh, in, in the basement, they walked down the stairs and all of a sudden they looked into the eyes of Carlici and, uh, DeFranzo and everybody, the whole, all the couples were there to spread the, the, uh, liability around and they were beaten to death with, with fists and feet, uh, in, in that basement and then transported to that burial ground, which coincidentally was just maybe a couple hundred yards away from Joey Aupa’s farm. [54:00] Right. So I guess that they must have had, uh, Toco standing by, because I don’t believe he was in that basement. I like that. He must have had him standing by to go grab the bodies and take them out. Really interesting. He should have had the old Doug before he got there. You know, that’s what they always say. First you dig the hole then you go do the murder right and i don’t think he had it done before he got there yeah i don’t i really that’s a good that’s a good point gary i really don’t know and nobody’s ever come forward to say what the status of the hole was beforehand uh you know it was a deep it was a deep it was it was a pretty deep hole uh but they may have had a dug ahead of Tom, but, but, uh, cause they knew the location and it’s pretty obscure location. So they had clearly been there before. And, and, you know, everybody knew that that was, I, I hope was, I got it right. Farm. And, uh, So they may have had it dug, and they just did a shoddy job covering it up. [55:05] But I also haven’t heard the specific details about how they handed it off to Toco. I don’t recall seeing that in Calabrese’s testimony. Yeah, it was Nick Calabrese that testified about that. It brought up the light. He named the killer. So he may not have gone that far, probably having Toco and having his wife testify that he did do this. that she picked him up out there. It was just a piece of the entire prosecution on the spot, which it really never was a trial or anything on that. I don’t believe. Another odd thing is he, I believe he ranted and raved the entire car ride back. And from where he was, you would run up with, It’s now turns into Indianapolis. So it’s a good car ride from where they were to Chicago Heights. I believe he ranted and raved about the guys and his crew and the burial and everything, the entire car ride, which was not something most guys would do in front of their wives. But I really, especially when he treated like that. Right. And complained about how long it took her to get there and everything. So she was able to verify a lot of what Calabrese was saying from the final end of it. Interesting. A friend of mine was in the penitentiary, and he said, there’s a guy in there who called himself a verifier. He said, what do you mean? He said, I’m a professional verifier. What he was, he was an informant. That’s what he was, but he called himself a verifier. [56:33] A girl would come to him and say, well, I heard this, this, and this. Is that true or not? He’d say, well, that’s true. That’s not true. [56:40] I guess that’s a more preferable term. Yeah, she was a verifier. Well, that was great. I really appreciate having that on there and Paul. And I really, I still miss Cam. Every time I get ready to do a Chicago show, I think, oh, I want to get Cam or Rochester. [56:58] We did one about Rochester. We did one about Utica. I did several other shows about other families. And he was a good guy and a real great researcher and a real expert on the outfit and other mafia families. So rest in peace, Cam and Paul. I hope to talk to you again one of these days. Guys, don’t forget, I got stuff to sell out there. Just go to my website or just search on my name for Amazon. I can rent my movies about the skim in Las Vegas, about the big mob war between the Savella brothers and the Spiro brothers in Kansas City. Then one about the great 1946 ballot theft in which the mob… Rigged election, helped Harry Truman rig an election. It’s a little harder to find than mine. You need to put ballot theft and Gary Jenkins. I think you’ll find it then. The other two, Gangland Wire and Brothers Against Brothers, Sabella Spiro, were a little bit easier to find. Had to put it up a different way because Amazon changed the rules, but I got them up there. So thanks a lot, guys.

The final week of the regular season is here! There's no hope for Paul, but Bill is looking for a winning week to break above .500. *First Bet Offer $1500* 1. Download the BetMGM Sportsbook app on iOS or Android, or visit betmgm.com. Use the promo code BURR 2. Sign up and deposit at least ten dollars ($10.00) into your BetMGM Sportsbook account. 3. Place your first wager and receive up to $1,500 back in Bonus Bets if the bet loses. 4. If the bet does lose, your Bonus Bets will be available once your initial wager is settled. *First Touchdown* Place a pre-game, straight First Touchdown Scorer bet in any NFL game. If your player scores the first touchdown in the game, win your wager as normal. If your player scores the second touchdown in the game, you’ll get your stake back in cash. (Only straight bets apply to Second Chance. Any wager using a bonus bet, bonus or other reward token is ineligible for the campaign.) Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US). Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-327-5050 (MA), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). First Bet Offer for new customers only. Subject to eligibility requirements. Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. See BetMGM.com for Terms. 21+ only. US promotional offers not available in New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico.

 “A sonnet,” said the poet Dante Gabriel Rossetti, “is a moment's monument.” But who invented the sonnet? Who brought it to prominence? How has it changed over the years? And why does this form continue to be so compelling? In this episode of the History of Literature, we take a brief look at one of literature's most enduring forms, from its invention in a Sicilian court to the wordless sonnet and other innovative uses. Note: A version of this episode first ran in August 2018. It has been missing from our archives for many years. Join Jacke on a trip through literary England! Join Jacke and fellow literature fans on an eight-day journey through literary England in partnership with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠John Shors Travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ in May 2026! Scheduled stops include The Charles Dickens Museum, Dr. Johnson's house, Jane Austen's Bath, Tolkien's Oxford, Shakespeare's Globe Theater, and more. Learn more by emailing jackewilsonauthor@gmail.com or masahiko@johnshorstravel.com, or by contacting us through our website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. December update: Act soon - there are only two spots left! The music in this episode is by Gabriel Ruiz-Bernal. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gabrielruizbernal.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Help support the show at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/literature ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com/donate ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The History of Literature Podcast is a member of Lit Hub Radio and the Podglomerate Network. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thepodglomerate.com/historyofliterature⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on For the Health of It, we sit down with David Cirillo — chef, owner, and the heart behind Boca Grande Burritos in Columbia, SC.Born and raised a true Gamecock, David brings 37 years of culinary experience to the table, blending his Sicilian roots, love for heavy metal, and bold creative flair into every dish he serves. From running a fast-casual favorite on Forest Drive to building a community around great food and good vibes, David's story is all about passion, grit, and staying true to who you are.We talk food, family, inspiration, the realities of running a local business, and what it really takes to turn decades of experience into a place people love.Thank you so much for listening! If you would like to see more from Boca Grande Burritos, you can find them here: https://www.instagram.com/bocagrandeburritos/https://www.facebook.com/BocaGrandeSChttps://www.bocagrandesc.com/This episode is sponsored by Columbia Family Chiropractor: https://www.cfcforhealth.com https://www.instagram.com/columbiafamilychiropracticIf you would like to follow us, we are on everything at Here For The Health Of It Podcast:https://www.instagram.com/hereforthehealthofitpodcasthttps://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hereforthehealthofit

Long before Prohibition, long before speakeasies and Tommy guns, Pittsburgh's underworld was already taking shape—quietly, violently, and largely unseen.This episode traces the true origins of organized crime in Western Pennsylvania, beginning not with a Mafia family as we know it today, but with knives in an alley, whispered threats, and fear used as a business model. We open on October 28, 1892, when a brutal Sicilian knife duel erupts on a dusty Pittsburgh street—an encounter that nearly kills Salvatore “The Banana King” Catanzaro and sets the tone for everything that follows.From there, the story widens. We travel back to southern Italy and the Mezzogiorno to understand the conditions that shaped the men who would later carry old-world codes of silence, honor, and vengeance across the Atlantic. We follow Italian immigrants into the mills, mines, and boarding houses of Pittsburgh and its surrounding towns—places where law enforcement was distant, protection was unreliable, and fear became currency.At the center of this episode is the rise of the Black Hand. Through contemporaneous newspaper accounts, police reports, and court records, we reconstruct a chilling pattern of extortion, kidnappings, bombings, and assassinations that terrorized Italian communities from the early 1900s through the First World War. Letters marked with daggers and bloody handprints. Demands signed “La Mano Nera.” Victims who paid, victims who vanished, and victims who fought back.We follow real cases that gripped the city: the kidnapping of a Brooklyn child believed hidden in Pittsburgh, assassinations tied to refusal to pay tribute, mining towns paralyzed by fear, and bodies burned or dumped in the hills outside the city. We examine how authorities alternately dismissed, denied, and misunderstood what was happening—even as the violence escalated.Threaded through it all is Salvatore Catanzaro—a man remembered publicly as a successful fruit merchant, civic leader, and pillar of the Italian community, yet whispered about by historians as Pittsburgh's first Mafia boss. We explore his rise from Sicily to America, his near-fatal duel, his quiet accumulation of influence through legitimate business, and the mystery surrounding his true role in the city's early underworld. Was he a padrone who ruled through respect rather than blood? Or a myth retroactively shaped by later generations?By the episode's end, one thing is clear: the Black Hand did not disappear—it evolved. As Prohibition loomed, extortion gave way to bootlegging, and loose networks hardened into organized hierarchies. The foundations of the Pittsburgh Mafia were already in place, built on fear, silence, and survival.This is not a romanticized story. It's a reconstruction—grounded in primary sources—of how organized crime took root in a city better known for steel and smoke than secret societies. And it's the first chapter in a much longer, darker history still to come.

This episode of Big Blend Radio's "Global Adventures" Podcast with travel writer Debbie Stone explores Catania, Sicily, a city defined by resilience, tradition, and a fascinating blend of beauty and grit. Set in the shadow of Mount Etna, Catania's story is shaped by volcanic eruptions, deep-rooted faith, and a strong sense of community. Debbie explores the cultural importance of Saint Agatha, the folklore surrounding the Elephant Fountain, and the city's vibrant street food and market scene, including the must-try Pasta alla Norma. From underground ruins to UNESCO-recognized architecture, this episode reveals why Catania is one of Sicily's most compelling destinations.

This week on For the Health of It, we sit down with David Cirillo — chef, owner, and the heart behind Boca Grande Burritos in Columbia, SC.Born and raised a true Gamecock, David brings 37 years of culinary experience to the table, blending his Sicilian roots, love for heavy metal, and bold creative flair into every dish he serves. From running a fast-casual favorite on Forest Drive to building a community around great food and good vibes, David's story is all about passion, grit, and staying true to who you are.We talk food, family, inspiration, the realities of running a local business, and what it really takes to turn decades of experience into a place people love.Thank you so much for listening! If you would like to see more from Boca Grande Burritos, you can find them here: https://www.instagram.com/bocagrandeburritos/https://www.facebook.com/BocaGrandeSChttps://www.bocagrandesc.com/This episode is sponsored by Columbia Family Chiropractor: https://www.cfcforhealth.com https://www.instagram.com/columbiafamilychiropracticIf you would like to follow us, we are on everything at Here For The Health Of It Podcast:https://www.instagram.com/hereforthehealthofitpodcasthttps://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/hereforthehealthofit

Dive into a late-night mix of muscle car nostalgia, global conspiracies, and the fascinating world of linguistic nuances. Lionel explores why manual transmissions are a lost art, the hilarious (and potentially ghostly) mistranslations of Coca-Cola in China, and the "dangerous" hidden meanings of car names like the Ford Pinto. Between debating hit squads and the cultural differences between Sicily and Sardinia, Lionel celebrates the unsung heroism of sanitation workers and the revolutionary history of the indoor toilet. It is a fast-paced, informative journey through listener stories, "dashboard fails," and the "scholarly" side of verbal aggression. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Angelo Flaccavento has long been one of fashion's most distinctive critical voices — sharp yet empathetic, rigorous yet imaginative, always willing to question his own certainties. In this conversation, he traces his path from a Sicilian childhood spent absorbing magazines in boutique backrooms to becoming a writer whose clarity and candor designers both fear and admire. We discuss the formative power of self-doubt, the responsibility of the critic in an era shaped by branding and algorithms, and why genuine surprise has become fashion's rarest commodity. Angelo reflects on taste as a lifelong education, the tension between fantasy and reality, and the importance of staying fluid rather than defined in a moment obsessed with categorization. “I'm a dreamer, but not an escapist. Fantasy has to somehow crash to the ground in order to become reality.” - Angelo Flaccavento  Episode Highlights: A Sicilian childhood shaped by boutiques and early fashion literacy Angelo grew up in Ragusa surrounded by family-run boutiques at the height of Italy's fashion boom. Magazines, Versace dresses, Guy Bourdin images, and the glamour of the early '80s became his first education in style and visual culture. Discovering i-D and turning Ragusa into his personal London Getting a subscription to i-D as a teenager becomes a defining moment. He reads each issue obsessively, treating it as a window into a world he hasn't yet reached — the foundation of his sharp, culturally attuned eye. From aspiring designer to critic: finding the right medium Though he once dreamed of being a designer, he realized he was more drawn to ideas, imagery, and interpretation. Writing became his path, encouraged by teachers who sensed his voice before he did. A voice that evolves rather than settles Angelo talks about tone and style as living entities — shaped by constraints, sharpened by editors, and never fixed in place. He values clarity, concision, and atmosphere, always pushing himself toward more precision. Doubt as a creative engine He sees doubt not as insecurity but as momentum, calling it “the essence of progress.” Self-questioning keeps him open, curious, and resistant to stagnation. Criticism as decoding, not destruction For Angelo, the critic's role is to cut through PR storytelling and help readers understand what they're actually seeing. He believes in honesty delivered with generosity — critique as illumination, not cruelty. Maintaining integrity in a political, PR-driven industry He speaks openly about the emotional and professional navigation required each season, from access issues to difficult conversations, and why seeing shows live is essential to telling the truth. Fashion's power to surprise Angelo celebrates the rare, electric moments when a show shifts the mood of the entire industry — reminders of why fashion still matters and how a collection can rewire the cultural conversation. Taste as instinct refined over a lifetime For him, taste is a mix of instinct and education — shaped by art history, architecture, vertical lines, trial and error, and everything one has ever seen. Taste is biography turned into perspective. What is contemporary now: resisting definition Angelo concludes that the most contemporary stance is fluidity — refusing to let algorithms, labels, or nostalgia define us, and staying open enough to see the world anew. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textWe trace Saint Lucy's journey from Syracuse to martyrdom, exploring the miracles, symbols, and traditions that shape her patronage of sight and her enduring witness to Christ. We also share prayers, novenas, and practical ways to deepen devotion through Advent.• origins in Syracuse and early vow• courage under Diocletian's persecution• dowry given to the poor• miracles of immovability and restored sight• symbolism of eyes, light, and the Eucharist• feast day customs across Italy and Scandinavia• connection with Saint Agatha and Sicilian sanctity• Saint Lucy in Dante's Divine Comedy• prayers and novenas for healing of sight• resources, pilgrimages, and devotional toolsBe sure to click the link in the description for special news itemAnd since there is more to this article, finish reading and check out the special offerVisit JourneysofFaith.com website todaySaint Lucy CollectionOpen by Steve Bailey Support the showJourneys of Faith brings your Super Saints Podcasts ***Our Core Beliefs*** The Eucharist is the Source and Summit of our Faith." Catechism 132 Click Here “This is the will of God, your sanctification.” 1Thessalonians 4“ Click Here ... lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven...” Matthew 6:19-2 Click Here The Goal is Heaven Click Here Why you should shop here at Journeys of Faith official site! Lowest Prices and Higher discounts up to 50% Free Shipping starts at $18 - Express Safe Checkout Click Here Cannot find it let us find or create it - - Click Here Rewards Program is active - ...

In this episode of the Walk-In Talk Podcast, Carl sits down with Chef Massimo Orlando and Jack Ross for a powerful conversation about Italian heritage, food culture, and the stories that shape who we are.   Chef Massimo Orlando shares his journey from growing up in Italy and learning to cook in his grandmother's kitchen to working professionally at a young age in the kitchens around Lake Como. His path took him across the ocean to Miami Beach and eventually to California, where he built a life, a career, and a community. Massimo opens up about mentorship, immigration, the impact of the pandemic, rebuilding after loss, and how mental health and therapy changed his leadership and outlook on life. He also discusses his role with A.P.C.I. North America and the mission to protect and promote real Italian food and culture in the United States and Canada.   Joining the episode in the studio is Jack Ross, the creator of YO! Meatball. Jack is a home cook whose Sicilian family recipes are rooted in tradition, comfort, and the Sunday table. While cooking his signature meatballs live, Jack shares how family food traditions became a way to connect with community and preserve heritage outside of the professional kitchen. This episode explores two different paths connected by one common thread. Food as memory, identity, resilience, and connection.     Brand & Industry Partners • Metro https://www.metro.com • RAK Porcelain USA https://www.rakporcelain.com/usa • Pass the Honey https://www.passthehoney.com • Aussie Select https://www.aussieselect.com • Ibis Images Studio https://www.ibisimages.com Official Trade Show & Event Partners • New York Restaurant Show https://www.nyrestaurantshow.com • California Restaurant Show https://www.californiarestaurantshow.com • Florida Restaurant Show https://www.floridarestaurantshow.com • Pizza Tomorrow Summit https://www.pizzatomorrowsummit.com • U.S. Culinary Open at NAFEM Show https://www.usculinaryopen.org Cause & Community Partners • The Burnt Chef Project (Mental health advocacy in hospitality) https://www.theburntchefproject.com • Operation BBQ Relief https://operationbbqrelief.org • Hogs for the Cause https://hogsforthecause.org • Sustainable Supperclub https://www.sustainablesupperclub.com

The New Earth is asking for innovative thinkers and creators on a hearts mission to support our world. Are you a healer or holistic practitioner? What kind of passion do you need for success? How can you support others, while allowing life to support you?  For over two decades, Connie Costa, MA has been a luminous force in the world of spiritual transformation—empowering hundreds of coaches, healers, and visionaries to birth the soul-aligned businesses they were always meant to lead. But her path was not paved in ease. When she first stepped into her calling as a coach, she lived through trial after trial—painful failures, unexpected setbacks, and moments that shattered her only to rebuild her stronger, wiser, and infinitely more compassionate. These challenges became her initiation. Today, Connie stands as a highly respected healer and spiritual mentor who carries the sacred Munay-Ki rites—ancient energetic transmissions of the Q'ero lineage that ignite deep cellular remembrance, awaken intuition, and anchor one's highest destiny. Through these rites and her intuitive gifts, she helps spiritual entrepreneurs release the fear that binds them, reclaim their power, and step boldly into the impact they were born to make. Her mastery lies in transforming the lives of heart-centered entrepreneurs still trapped in soul-suffocating careers—those terrified that their dreams will die with them. Connie is devoted to collapsing their learning curve, guiding them to build businesses that feel purposeful, aligned, prosperous, and deeply sacred. Her clients don't just shift—they rise into the most extraordinary versions of themselves, creating impactful legacies that touch thousands of lives. Connie is also an international speaker, writer, and visionary curator of some of the world's most transformational high-end spiritual retreats. With a Master's Degree in Clinical Psychology from Antioch University and professional certifications in holistic and spiritual coaching, she bridges ancient wisdom with modern mastery. Her signature work is leading elite, life-altering retreats across Sicily, Ojai, and just added—England--immersions that weave luxury, spirituality, ancestral healing, and profound inner alchemy. Since 2010, she has crafted bespoke Sicilian experiences that blend opulence with soul: private access to sacred sites, exclusive culinary journeys, curated adventures, and powerful spiritual ceremonies designed to awaken the deepest parts of the self. What began as intimate retreats for her coaching clients has evolved into a global, sought-after transformational journey for those ready to elevate their lives. Connie's devotion to excellence, authenticity, and spiritual integrity is the heartbeat of her work. Every experience she creates—whether a retreat, a ceremony, an article, or a private session—is infused with intention, magic, and a fierce commitment to her clients' liberation and expansion. Contact her at https://www.conniecosta.com/ Her motto: "Fall in Love with Fear So You Can Marry Success." And she lives it—guiding every soul she touches to remember who they truly are, embody their sacred gifts, and rise into a life that is beautifully, powerfully, undeniably their own.  

Send us a textIn this conversation, Bob Sorrentino interviews Christina Marrocco, an English professor, author, and poet, about her Italian heritage and the impact of cultural displacement on Italian American communities. They discuss the history of Italian neighborhoods in Chicago, the importance of preserving language and cultural identity, and the role of storytelling in connecting with one's roots. Christina shares insights from her literary work, including her dissertation on the evil eye in Italian American literature, and emphasizes the need for cultural education and the preservation of family stories.Christina's grandfathers were Sicilian immigrants to America.The displacement of Italian communities in Chicago has left a lasting impact.Cultural identity is often tied to language and community.Many Italian neighborhoods have been gentrified and lost their original character.Preserving family stories is crucial for future generations.Cultural education should start at a young age to instill a sense of identity.Dialects are an important part of Italian heritage and should be recognized as full languages.Literature can bridge cultural gaps and explore complex identities.The evil eye is a significant cultural belief in Italian communities.It's important to document and share personal and family histories.Turnkey. The only thing you'll lift are your spirits.Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!Start for FREEAddio, Love MonsterMarrocco transports you into this small world of Signora Giuseppa, the “iron fist” of Singer StreetDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showPurchase my book "Farmers and Nobles" here or at Amazon.

The decision by major bosses such as Luciano, Adonis (Milan) and Coppola (Rome) to establish their homes far from Sicily, in large cities such as Naples, Milan and Rome, was based on specific strategic needs. In these cities, the traditional Sicilian mafia network did not exist, and it was difficult to create one from scratch because the environmental and personal elements of the traditional mafia structure were lacking. This diversification of behaviour in relations with 'power' and adaptability to contexts other than traditional Sicilian ones were evident. In Sicily, the relationship between the Mafia and power was rich in undertones and based on respect for 'authority', a traditional world where things were done without saying them.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-history-of-the-american-mafia--4722947/support.

This episode of Helsinki Calling traces the remarkable journey of the Santa Lucia tradition from its dramatic Sicilian origins to its cherished role in Finland's winter darkness. We explore the story of Saint Lucia — a symbol of courage, compassion, and light — and how her legacy transformed into a Nordic celebration of hope. This year marks a milestone as Lucia 2024, Daniela Owusu, becomes the first Lucia of color in Finland, reflecting a more inclusive cultural narrative. Join me as I go live to capture her visit and the meaning this evolving tradition holds for Helsinki today. I will be on Instagram Live @thesocialhotelier

Known as the King of Sicily, Nero d'Avola is a wine that can be very approachable and fruity, and might just be the wine that you need to serve your friends and family who have not found a wine they like yet. Historically used as a blending grape, sometimes called a ghost grape and “medicine wine” by the French, Nero d'Avola was added to blends to add structure and alcohol. But today, it is finding its legs as a standalone varietal. If you or someone you love is a fancy wine drinker, they will probably not love Nero d'Avola, but if you want a casual cookout or party wine, Nero d'Avola may do the trick. Listen in to learn more about this most famous of Sicilian wines, and see if it might be something you want to try. We also talk to another listener to get their tribe name for the week, and we learn about a brazen wine heist in our Wine in the News This Week section. Wines reviewed in this episode: 2023 Purato Nero d'Avola, 2022 Planeta La Segreta Nero D'AvolaSend us a Text Message and we'll respond in our next episode!Contact The Wine Pair Podcast - we'd love to hear from you!Visit our website, leave a review, and reach out to us: https://thewinepairpodcast.com/Follow and DM us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewinepairpodcast/Send us an email: joe@thewinepairpodcast.com

California's Fast Food Council has gone dormant. Here come the 2026 restaurant industry predictions. And a 10-unit wood-fired pizza concept is getting some growth funding.

Rosanna D’Amato and Arlena D’Amato, 3rd generation owners of D’Amato’s Bakery on the Near West Side of Chicago joins David Hochberg, in for Bob Sirott, to share the history of D’Amato’s Bakery. Listen in while Rosanna and Arlena talk about their mouthwatering bakery staples such as their sandwich bread, focaccia, Sicilian pan “bakery” pizza and […]

Rosanna D’Amato and Arlena D’Amato, 3rd generation owners of D’Amato’s Bakery on the Near West Side of Chicago joins David Hochberg, in for Bob Sirott, to share the history of D’Amato’s Bakery. Listen in while Rosanna and Arlena talk about their mouthwatering bakery staples such as their sandwich bread, focaccia, Sicilian pan “bakery” pizza and […]

On today's menu:

Send us a textBob Sorrentino explores the profound significance of Sicilian names, illustrating how they encapsulate a rich history of invasions, migrations, and cultural exchanges. He emphasizes that surnames are not merely labels but are deeply intertwined with personal and collective identity, reflecting a vibrant tapestry of heritage that continues to shape individuals today.The story of Sicily is written in its names.Surnames reflect a history of invasions and migrations.Every name carries a vibrant layer of cultural heritage.Your surname is a living history woven into your identity.Names connect us to our ancestors and their experiences.Cultural clashes add depth to our understanding of identity.Heritage is not erased; it evolves with each generation.Surnames are a testament to the resilience of history.Understanding names can deepen our appreciation of culture.Names are a bridge between the past and present.Support the showPurchase my book "Farmers and Nobles" here or at Amazon.

In this episode, Mike rewinds the clock to January 1978 and relives one of the most legendary winter storms in Michigan history — not as an adult, but as the 12-year-old kid he was at the time. Join Mike as he shares what it was like watching the storm unfold on TV and Radio as the local weather team track the impossible, and experiencing the chaos, excitement, and wonder of a once-in-a-generation blizzard. From the snow drifts taller than a kid to the surreal quiet of a world that completely shut down, this episode captures the Blizzard of '78 as only someone who lived it — wide-eyed and bundled up — can tell it. Mike sets the scene by sharing that he had just celebrated his birthday when the blizzard began, remembering how he had a pizza party at home after his father picked up Sicilian square pizza from a local place called Little Richard’s. He recalls the excitement in the air as TV news talked about the potential for a blizzard. On the morning of January 26, schools were closed as drifts of snow created significant chaos. Mike describes how everything was completely buried under the snow, with even the antenna of his mother’s car barely visible. The storm had high winds, creating massive drifts and making travel impossible. He recounts the challenges of feeding horses at a nearby barn and how his family navigated the snow-laden landscape. He humorously shares anecdotes about the struggles of shoveling snow with his cousin and their father using a 1970 John Deere lawn tractor equipped with a snowblower. After several days, the roads began to open again, and stories about neighbors and their interactions during the storm emerge, including a humorous tale about a front-end loader being used to deliver cigarettes to a stranded neighbor. As the storm’s impact persisted, schools were closed for an entire week, and the community adapted to the extraordinary amount of snow with creative solutions like snowshoeing for transportation. Mike also describes his memories of hot soups simmering on the wood stove during the storm, a comforting detail from those winter days. He revisits the enormous snowbanks that formed by the season’s end, making comparisons to today’s weather reactions and reminiscing about the blizzard’s lasting impact. Mike wraps up by inviting listeners who experienced the Blizzard of ’78 to share their stories and reflecting on how this blizzard remains a notable part of his childhood memory.

In this episode, Mike rewinds the clock to January 1978 and relives one of the most legendary winter storms in Michigan history — not as an adult, but as the 12-year-old kid he was at the time. Join Mike as he shares what it was like watching the storm unfold on TV and Radio as the local weather team track the impossible, and experiencing the chaos, excitement, and wonder of a once-in-a-generation blizzard. From the snow drifts taller than a kid to the surreal quiet of a world that completely shut down, this episode captures the Blizzard of '78 as only someone who lived it — wide-eyed and bundled up — can tell it. Mike sets the scene by sharing that he had just celebrated his birthday when the blizzard began, remembering how he had a pizza party at home after his father picked up Sicilian square pizza from a local place called Little Richard’s. He recalls the excitement in the air as TV news talked about the potential for a blizzard. On the morning of January 26, schools were closed as drifts of snow created significant chaos. Mike describes how everything was completely buried under the snow, with even the antenna of his mother’s car barely visible. The storm had high winds, creating massive drifts and making travel impossible. He recounts the challenges of feeding horses at a nearby barn and how his family navigated the snow-laden landscape. He humorously shares anecdotes about the struggles of shoveling snow with his cousin and their father using a 1970 John Deere lawn tractor equipped with a snowblower. After several days, the roads began to open again, and stories about neighbors and their interactions during the storm emerge, including a humorous tale about a front-end loader being used to deliver cigarettes to a stranded neighbor. As the storm’s impact persisted, schools were closed for an entire week, and the community adapted to the extraordinary amount of snow with creative solutions like snowshoeing for transportation. Mike also describes his memories of hot soups simmering on the wood stove during the storm, a comforting detail from those winter days. He revisits the enormous snowbanks that formed by the season’s end, making comparisons to today’s weather reactions and reminiscing about the blizzard’s lasting impact. Mike wraps up by inviting listeners who experienced the Blizzard of ’78 to share their stories and reflecting on how this blizzard remains a notable part of his childhood memory.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, host Gary Jenkins sits down with former FBI agent Séamus McElearney, author of Flipping Capo, for a deep dive into one of the most remarkable Mafia investigations and how he took down the DeCavalcante Family. McElearney recounts his unlikely path from the world of banking to the FBI, driven by a lifelong fascination with law enforcement. Despite being told he didn't have the “right background,” he pushed forward—eventually landing in New York's Organized Crime Squad C-10, where he investigated both the Bonanno and DeCavalcante crime families. He describes the rare and demanding experience of working two Mafia families at once, and the teamwork required to dismantle them from the inside out. As the conversation turns to his book, Flipping Capo, McElearney explains the years-long process of writing it and the rigorous FBI review needed to ensure no sensitive investigative techniques were revealed. He shares early memories of notorious boss Joe Massino, and the high-stakes surveillance and arrests that defined his career. A major focus of the episode is the arrest and flipping of Anthony Capo, a feared DeCavalcante soldier—and the first made member of that family ever to cooperate with the government. McElearney walks listeners through the tension of that operation, his calculated approach to treating Capo with respect, and the psychological tightrope that ultimately persuaded Capo to talk. That single decision triggered a domino effect of cooperation that helped bring down the New Jersey mob family many believe inspired The Sopranos. Gary and Séamus dive into the proffer process, cooperation agreements, and the behind-the-scenes strategies used to turn high-level mobsters. McElearney also draws comparisons between real mob figures and the fictional world of The Sopranos, revealing how much of the hit series was grounded in the actual cases he worked. The interview closes with McElearney's reflections on how organized crime continues to evolve. While today's mob may look different from the one he battled in the '90s, he stresses that the methods—and the money—still flow. His candid insights offer a rare look into the changing face of the American Mafia and the ongoing fight to contain it. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. 2:26 Seamus’ FBI Journey 6:26 Inside the DeCavalcante Family 9:05 The Process of Flipping 10:27 Comparing Families 12:30 The First Cooperation 17:43 The Proffer Process 25:03 Protecting Cooperators 27:44 The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro 29:42 Life on Trial 30:28 The Real Sopranos 39:43 Leading the Columbo Squad 44:15 Major Arrests and Cases 50:57 Final Thoughts and Stories Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. Transcript [0:00]Well, hey, welcome all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective. [0:07]Welcome to Gangland Wire [0:07]I have a former FBI agent as my guest today. And, you know, I love having these FBI agents on. I’ve had a lot of them on and I worked with a lot of the guys and they’re really good guy. Everyone I ever met and worked with was a really good guy. Now they got their deadhead just like we did. But these aggressive guys are the ones that write books and I’ve got one on today. Seamus McElherney. Welcome, Seamus. Thank you. It’s great to be here. All right. Well, an Irish name now working on the Italian mob, huh? How come you weren’t working on the Westie? So they were maybe gone by the time you came around. There’s no such thing. [0:47]Oh, yeah. You got your code. You Irish guys got your code, too. All right, Seamus, you got a book, Killing, or Killing, Flipping Capo. I want to see it back up over your shoulder there. Really interesting book, guys. He flipped a guy named Anthony Capo. And he really took down the real Sopranos, if you will. So Seamus, tell us a little about how you got started with the FBI, your early career. Okay. When I got out of school, I really didn’t know what to do. And I got into banking and I just decided that was really not for me. And I got lucky where I got to meet an FBI agent. and I was just so fascinated by the work. It seemed like every day was different. You know, one day you could meet a CEO and another day you could be doing surveillance. It just, the job just seemed really interesting. [1:38]Like fascinating to me. So I decided to try to become an agent. And I was constantly told, Shane, you should never become an agent. You didn’t have the background for it. And one, one, a motto in life to me is persistence beats resistance. And I was just determined to become an agent. And back then in the late 1990s, it was a long process and it took me close to two years to actually become an agent. And I was selected to go down to training and I was very fortunate to be selected to go down to training. Now it was your first office back up in New York and the, one of the organized crime squads, or did you go out into boonies and then come back? I actually was born and raised in New York, and I was fortunate to be selected to be sent back to New York. So my first squad, I was sent back to the city, back to 26 Federal Plaza, [2:26]Seamus’ FBI Journey [2:24]and I was assigned to a squad called C-10. And C-10 was an organized crime squad, which was responsible for the Bonanno family, and then later became the DeCavocanti family as well, which I can explain to you yeah yeah we’ll get we’ll get deep into that now now let’s let me ask you a little bit about the book tell the guys a little bit about the process of writing a book from your fbi experiences. [2:47]It’s a long process. First of all, I was contacted by someone who was interested [2:55]Writing a Book [2:53]in writing a book based upon my career. People had encouraged me to write a book because I had a very successful career. And when you work organized crime, it’s never just about you. It’s about the people that you work with, right? It’s definitely a team. It’s never just one person. I had great supervisors. I had great teammates. I had a great partner. And so I was approached to write a book. So then I had no idea. So there was an agent, a famous agent, an undercover agent named Jack Garcia. So I kind of really leaned on him to kind of learn how to write a book. And it’s a long process. You have to get an agent, the publisher, a co-author I had. And then when you finally have all that, and you do have the manuscript ready to be written, you have to send it down to the FBI. And that is a long process. The FBI, in this instance, probably took over a year for them to review the book because what they want to make sure is you’re not revealing any investigative techniques. Fortunately for me, a lot of the information that is in the book is public information because of all the trials that I did. Interesting. Yeah, it is. It is quite a I know it was quite a process. [4:00]Now, the banana squad, you work in a banana squad. You know, we know a little bit about the banana squad. [4:07]Was Joe Pacino the boss when you first came in? Yes, he was. And I actually had the pleasure of arresting Joe as well. Ah, interesting. I did a show on Joe. He’s a really interesting guy. I know my friend, who was at the banana squad, I think just before you were, and he talked a lot of, to me personally, he won’t go on the show, but he talked a lot about Joe Massino. He said, actually, saw him in the courtroom one time later on, he hadn’t seen him in several years. And, and Joe looked across the courtroom. He said, Doug, how are you doing? He said, Joe was that kind of guy. He was real personal. He was. [4:44]Yeah, so when I first got to the squad, the supervisor at the time was a gentleman named Jack Steubing, and he had the thought process to go after Joe and his money. So there was two accountants that were assigned to a squad at that time. It was Kimberly McCaffrey and Jeff Solette, and they were targeted to go after Joe and his money. And it was a very successful case. And when we arrested Joe, I think it was in January of 2003, I believe it was, I was assigned to be part of that arrest team. Interesting. You know, McCaffrey and Sled are going to be talking about that case out at the Mob Museum sometime in the near future. I can’t remember exactly when it is. And it was a hell of a case. I think it just happened, actually. Oh, did it? Okay. I actually just spoke to Jeff, so I think it just happened about a week or two ago. Okay. Yeah, I tried to get him to come on the show, and I think maybe he was committed to doing something else, and I didn’t keep after him. And I don’t like to pester people, you know. [5:44]And Fensell was the one that said, you got to get Jeff Sillett. You got to get Jeff Sillett. When I looked into that money angle of it, that was pretty interesting about how they were laundering their money through the parking lots and just millions. And when he gave up, like $10 million or something? I mean, it’s unbelievable. Yes. And that’s that’s one of the reasons why I wrote the book is because I don’t think the public or the press really put this together where that squad, C-10, is a very unique squad where we were dismantling the two families at the same time. Half the family was working the Bonanno family and half the family was working the Cavalcanti family. So it’s a very unique squad during that six or seven year time period where we were dismantling two families at the same time. [6:26]Inside the DeCavalcanti Family [6:26]Interesting and and that gets us into the dekavocante family i could always struggle with that name for some reason but that’s all right guys know i butcher these names all the time. [6:37]Forgive me guys anyhow so you ended up working on the dekavocante family down in new jersey now that you know that’s unusual how did that come about we got we got a new jersey branch of the fbi down there too, Yes, we do. So what happened was I went to training in February of 1998. The case actually starts in January of 1998, where an individual named Ralph Guarino was the mastermind behind this, but he had the idea of robbing the World Trade Center. So he had three people that actually tried to execute that plan. They did rob the World Trade Center, but when they came out, they took their mask off and they were identified by the cameras that were actually there. So those individuals were actually arrested pretty quickly. I think two were arrested that day. The third person, I think, fled to New Mexico and was found pretty quickly. Ralph was smart enough to know that he was going to be apprehended pretty quickly. So he reached out to an agent named George Hanna, a legendary agent within the office, and George was able to convince him to become a proactive witness, meaning he would make consensual recordings. That was in January of 1998. I think it was January 14th. [7:51]Approximately nine days later, there was a murder of an individual named Joseph Canigliaro. Who was a ruthless DeKalocanti associate assigned to a wheelchair. How he got in a wheelchair was back in the 70s, a DeKalocanti soldier and him went to go collect money from a loan shark victim. And the story goes that Jim Gallo, James Gallo, actually shot Joseph Canigliaro by accident and paralyzed him. No hard feelings. It was just the course of doing their business back then. But he was paralyzed from the 70s to the 90s. He was a ruthless individual. though. And the reason that they killed him is his crew around him had him killed. They actually killed him because he was such a ruthless person and who would extort people and just really was a bad person. There were stories that he would call people over to him in his wheelchair and shoot them. So a ruthless guy. And he was killed in, I think, January 23rd of 1998. [8:50]So that’s how this case starts. Ralph Guarino, as I said, became a proactive witness. When you have a proactive witness. You just don’t know where they’re going to go. What I mean by that is you would direct him through mob associates and many guys, and you’re trying to gather evidence on tape. [9:05]The Process of Flipping [9:06]Where Ralph Guarino led us was the Brooklyn faction of the DeCavalcanti family, namely Anthony Capo, Anthony Rotondo, Vincent Palermo. [9:17]Joseph Scalfani, a whole host of DeCavalcanti people that were located in Brooklyn. And that’s how we start to build this case. Now, granted, I was just in training at that time in February of 1998. I don’t get sent back to New York until May of 1998. And from May of 1998 until December of 1998, they put you through a rotation, meaning I go through the operations center, I go through surveillance, and then I finally get assigned to C-10 in December of 1998. At that point in time, Jeff and Kim are already on the squad, so they’re operating the case against Messino. I come to the squad, and the Decalvo Canty case has now started. So I’m assigned to the Decalvo Canty portion of the squad to work them. And as I said, that’s why we’re working two parallel cases at the time. One is against the Bananos, the other is against the Jersey family. And we operate, Ralph, proactively from January 1998 up until the first set of indictments, which was in December of 1999. So compare and contrast the Banano family structure and how they operated in [10:27]Comparing Families [10:24]a DeCavocante family structure and how they operate. Were they exactly the same or were there some differences? [10:31]They’re into the same types of the rackets that the Waldemar people are into, but I would say related to the Decalvo Canty family, since they’re based in Jersey, they really had a control of the unions out there. There was two unions that they basically controlled, Local 394, which was the labor union, and they also started their own union, which was the asbestos union, which was Local 1030. [10:53]And those were controlled by the Decalvo Canty family, so that was the bread and butter of the Decalvo Canty family. So, as I said, the first set, you know, we operated Ralph proactively for almost close to two years. And then in December of 1999, we executed our first set of arrests because there was whispers that Ralph, why wasn’t he arrested yet? Where he was the mastermind behind the World Trade Center being robbed, but he hasn’t been picked up yet. So there was whispers that he might be cooperating with the government. And for his safety, that’s why we took him off off the street and we executed our first round of arrest in December of 1999. [11:33]I’m a relatively new agent. I’d only been on the squad now for a year and we arrested 39 people that day. I get assigned to arrest Anthony Capo, who’s a soldier within the Decavacanti family based out of Staten Island. And I was really surprised by that because, as I said, I was just an agent for about a year. Usually when you’re a new agent, you’re assigned to the back, you know, like we are security. I was even surprised that I was going to be on a team. And I was fortunate enough to be the team leader, which is very surprising to me. And the case was out of the Southern District of New York. And in New York, just for the public, there is two districts. There’s a Southern District of New York and the Eastern District of New York. And the Eastern District of New York also had charges on Anthony Capo as well. So for my arrest team, I had members from the Eastern District of New York as well. There was a separate squad that was looking into Anthony Capo there. [12:30]The First Cooperation [12:27]So I got the ticket to arrest Anthony Capo in December of 1999. And that’s how this case starts. [12:33]Interesting. Now, nobody’s ever flipped out of the DeCavocante family before, I believe. It’s been a pretty tight family, really rigidly controlled by this Richie the Boot. I mean, he’s a fearsome, fearsome guy. I mean, you did not want to get crossways with him. And a smaller, tighter family, it seems to me like, than the New York families. That was right. Well, like up and up until that point, up until that point and unbeknownst to me that no made member in the DeKalbacanti family had ever cooperated with the government before. [13:08]So I had watched George Hanna, how he operated Ralph Guarino for those two years, and he always treated him with respect. And prior to going to arrest Anthony Capo, Anthony Capo had had a reputation of being an extremely violent person, hated by law enforcement and even hated by a lot of people within the mob. But I was going I wasn’t going to let that, you know, use that against him. I was going to treat him with respect regardless. Right. I didn’t know I didn’t know him. I never dealt with him before. And I would basically before I went to go arrest him, I was going to study everything about him, learn everything about him. And I was going to use the approach of treating him with respect and using some mind chess when I was going to arrest him. What I mean by that is I was going to learn everything charges about him, everything about his family. I wanted him to know that I knew him like the back of my hand from head to toe, the start of the book to the end of the book. [14:02]And when I went to arrest him, I remember when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. So all the planning that you do related to going into an arrest, the checks that you do, he’s at the house, you knock on his door, and guess what? He’s not there. So his wife basically tells us that he’s at his mom’s house. So then that throws all the planning out the window, and now we go to his mom’s house. And when I met him, you know, I saw that he had a relationship with his parents, which, you know, it gives me a different perspective from what I heard from him. Interesting. And that says something about him, that’s for sure. So everything that I heard of this violent person and hated person, the way he treated law enforcement, he wasn’t that way with me. [14:49]So when I get him in the car and I start to read him his rights and start to ask him questions, every question that I would ask him, I already had the answer to, like, your date of birth, social security number. And then he would invoke his right to counsel, and then you’re not allowed to ask him any more questions. So what I would do is I would let the mind game start then. And I would ask him, you know, tell him about the charges that he had at that point in time. He was only charged with a conspiracy to murder Charlie Maggiore, who was an acting panel boss of the Decalvo Canty family. At that time, that point in time, they had three panel bosses. It was Charlie Maggiore, Jimmy Palermo and Vincent Palermo. Vincent Palermo was known as the stronger personality and really known as the acting boss. And they wanted to kill Charlie Maggiore. So he was charged with that. conspiracy to murder. And he was also charged with, I believe, stock fraud or it was mail fraud that would lead to stock fraud. So when I would question him, I would tell him, since he already invoked his right to counsel, don’t say anything, just listen to me. For an example, I would say your plan was to murder Charles Majuri. Your plan was to ring his doorbell and shoot him right there with James Gallo, Joe Macella. But you guys didn’t do that because there was a cop on the block. So instead of just doing a ring and run, you guys were going to ring and shoot him, right? [16:17]And now you’ve got to think, I told him, don’t say anything. Just listen to what I just said, right? Because I can’t have him answer any questions. And this wasn’t a question. This was a statement. Yeah. So that gives him food for thought, because you got to think, how would I know that? He doesn’t know at that point in time, this is an indictment. How do I know that? He doesn’t know who the cooperator is. He doesn’t know who made a recording. So I’m just throwing this at him. And this is the first time he’s hearing this. So it’s got to make him think, like, what else does this agent know? And I did this with the other charges as well. And then I would just throw these little tidbits at him. And then I would speak to the driver. How are you doing this? just give him food for thought. And then we just developed a bond that day, just talking sports back and forth. He actually was a cowboy fan. I’m a Steeler fan. So we have that little intensity going back and forth about that. And then we just developed a bond that day. I think that was the first time that he had an interaction with law enforcement, where it was more of a respect thing, as opposed to someone yelling at him or being contentious with him. I don’t think he’s ever or experienced that before. [17:27]Also because of his delivery as well, right? You know, it works both ways where you can, he can have his delivery really angry and that could, you know, provoke law enforcement to be angry towards him too. [17:43]The Proffer Process [17:40]So I think that helped it that way that day. And then just throughout the whole day. And I think one of the things that I do talk about within the book is just explaining processes to people, which is generally, I haven’t seen that done in a book before about how pretrial works. So what is pretrial? How cooperation works? How trial works? So I think there’s a lot of tidbits within the book that kind of explain things like that. Even some crimes, too. Like everyone hears what loan sharking is. I go into detail as to what loan sharking is and how it really works, because it’s a very profitable way to make money. So we have our day together. And, you know, then I had to meet his stepfather. I think he had heard that I treated his stepfather with respect. And then approximately a week later, I get a call from his lawyer and I basically almost fell out of my chair when his lawyer said he wanted to cooperate. [18:37]I bet. And then, yeah. And, you know, keep in mind, I’ve only been on the job for a year and I immediately call the assistant who is a seasoned assistant. Maria Barton, what was her name? And she’s really concerned, like, what did I say? Right. So I told her in these situations, less is more. I just told her I was going to call you. That’s all I said. I didn’t say anything else. Didn’t promise anything at all. I said I was going to call you. So, you know, that started with the process and then you go through a proffer. So I explained what the proffer is and how that process works. Interesting. Yeah. A proffer, guys is is like a kind of agreement you know and you you have to be totally open and admit to every crime you ever did and and we’ll cover you but to a certain point the basis you’ll lie down the basics. [19:31]Right. So what, you know, what we kind of like call it is queen for a day, right? Where you come in, we can’t use your words against you unless you lie to us, right? If you were, if you were to lie to us and then go, go to trial and, you know, we could, if you were to take the stand, we could, we could use it against you. But as long as you come in and you tell us the truth and you tell us everything, all the crimes that you’ve done. And the beauty of the mob is when they do a crime, they never do a crime alone, right? They involve a lot of people within a crime. So that’s the beauty of that. So when we have our first proffer, you know, in time, you only have a short amount of time to actually speak about this because you can only be away from jail for a certain amount of time right before the bad guys start to realize that something might be up. Right. So he comes in. And even even before that, on his on his way back, when we’re taking him back to 26 Federal Plaza, one of the things that he tells us is and it makes sense when we went to his house, he wasn’t there. He was at his mom’s house in the car ride back. He throws a little shot at me and he goes, we knew you were coming. [20:33]Meaning that there was a leak. They got a leak. Yeah. Right. So then when we have the first proffer, he explains the leak to us. And it appears allegedly there was a court reporter within the Southern District that was feeding them information. So that’s not good. And then in the proffer, he tells us about two murders. So, and there might be the bodies, a body might be buried up in Phil Lamella, who was a DeCalvo County soldier, up in Marlboro, New York. So that’s the first thing that he tells us. So these are jewels to us, right? He tells us about a leak. He tells us about two murders. Bodies might be buried. So we have to huddle and we have to decide, is he telling us the truth or not? We all decide that he’s telling us the truth. The proper takes place with George Hanna, as I mentioned him before. Kenny McCabe, a legendary Southern District investigator, and me. And in these situations, again, I’m a new agent. Less is more. I don’t want to say something stupid. So I kind of keep my mouth shut, right? And just listen. So that went really well. And that kind of started this whole process. So now, as we said before, you have… No one cooperated in 100 plus years of this family. And now we have the first [21:49]A Spiral of Cooperation [21:48]made member to cooperate. And basically, Anthony starts a spiral effect of cooperation. [21:56]After he where he reported to in the family at that particular time, since he was such a violent person and hard to control within the family himself. Well, he reported to Vincent Palermo, who was the acting panel boss out of that panel that I talked about, but viewed as the acting boss because of his strong personality. So you have Anthony cooperating. He reports to the acting boss. So from our perspective, our perspective, that’s golden, right? Because now Vinny is going to have to make a decision. Is he going to cooperate or not? And then about three months later, guess what? Vinny decides to cooperate. So now we have a soldier and we have the acting boss who’s going to cooperate. So we go from no one in a hundred years to basically two people in three months. [22:45]Then we have an associate, Victor DiChiro, decides to cooperate. So we go and we arrest him. So now we have three people in four months. So we take all their information, and they have to plead guilty, and they get a cooperation agreement. I explain all that. And when you have a cooperation agreement, as I mentioned before, Anthony was initially arrested for conspiracy to murder, and I believe it was stock fraud. When he pleads guilty, he has to plead guilty to all his crimes that he committed throughout his entire life. Off the top of my head, I remember he pled guilty to two murders. [23:23]11 murder conspiracies, boatload of extortions, and basically every other crime you could think of. And then the same thing with Vinny and Victor. We take all their information, and then we have our next series of indictments. So the first series was 39 indictments. And then the second series of indictments is in October of 2000, October 19th, which we just we just passed the 25th anniversary of that. And that was known as the hierarchy arrest, where we arrested the official boss, John Riggi. We arrested the two other panel bosses, Charlie Maggiore and Jimmy Palermo. We arrested the consigliere, Steve Vitabli, a bunch of captains and soldiers. So that’s a significant arrest, right? So now, as you know, when you have an arrest, there’s trials, there’s plea negotiations. So now we arrested 39 people plus another 13. We’re already up to like 50 something like something people out of that arrest. We get a little shockwave in the sense is that there’s an associate named Frank Scarabino. Frank Scarabino comes forward one day and tells us that there’s a contract on Anthony Capo’s family and Anthony Capo. [24:43]And also, there’s a contract on law enforcement. They want to go back to the old Sicilian ways and basically send a message. So, you know, that’s basically a little bit of a jolt where now we have to try to move Capo’s family. [25:03]Protecting Cooperators [24:59]And Capo’s in prison. He’s defenseless. And I explain all that. People have this sense of you go into the witness security program, you get a whole new life and you’re off and having a great time. They don’t realize that there are prisons within the United States that you have to go to prison. So I can’t say where the prisons are, but I kind of explain that process of how the WITSEC program works, which is run by the marshals. So that’s in that’s in the book as well. Yeah, they have a whole prisons that are just for people in WITSEC. I heard about a guy that said he was in one out west somewhere. Yeah. So and, you know, for those prisons, it’s not like you have to prove yourself. They’re all doing the same time. So they’re basically just trying to do their time and try to get out and get into the next phase of the WoodSec program. So that was kind of a jolt, right? So now we have Frank Scarabino cooperate. So now we have another person. So it’s the list is just getting more and more now. You got to stop taking cooperators and start putting people in jail for the rest of their life, man. [26:03]So it got to after that, we had like two more people cooperate. So we went from having nobody to having seven people cooperate in this period. And it’s interesting. And I know we’re going to go back and forth, but we went from 100 years of having no one to having seven people during this three year period. And since that time period, no other members have cooperated since. So we’ve started the clock again. I think we’re at 25 years plus again since no one cooperated during that period. And I mentioned the murder that we started this case, Joseph Canigliaro. So he was the guy that was in the wheelchair. So as I said, they wanted to kill him because he just tortured his crew. We were able, one of the guys who was initially arrested as part of the December 1999 arrest, he sees everybody’s, he is deciding to cooperate with the government. So he decides to cooperate. His name is Tommy DeTora. So Tommy DeTora decides to cooperate. He’s out on bail. So since he’s out on bail, we decide, let’s make him make a consensual recording. And he makes one of the best consensual recordings the Bureau has ever made. He gets everyone involved in that murder together. [27:28]And they talk about the murder from A to Z. It’s a priceless consensual recording that we used at trial. And it just, you know, one of the things that does stick in my mind is the shooter was Marty Lewis, who got a life sentence. [27:44]The Murder of Joseph Canigliaro [27:45]Marty Lewis is describing when he shot him. And he’s like, I shot him like five or six times in his car. Right. And then Marty Lewis gets out of the car. Joseph Canigliaro drives away, gets to the top of the block in Brooklyn, puts a signal on, put a signal on. And drove the traffic laws, drives to Joseph Wrightson’s house. A guy who was part of the murder conspiracy honks his horn for Joseph Wrightson to come downstairs. So can you imagine Joseph Wrightson looking down the window seeing the guy that’s supposed to be dead right now and telling him to get in the car to go to the hospital with him? [28:32]Unfortunately, when they go to the hospital one of the things that does happen is joseph brightson has uh unfortunately an nyp detective cop who’s a cousin and involves him in this as well and the cop takes shells from the car and he becomes he gets locked up by us as well they all go to trial they get convicted and. [28:55]You know, we also arrested a Genevieve’s captain related to the leak. So in total, I think the numbers were 71 defendants were convicted, 11 murders were solved, seven trials transpired. You know, as everyone knows, you have the arrest, but then you have the trials, right? And I know that from December 2002 up until November of 2003 was the year that I was on trial. There was three trials that I had, and then there was another trial. There was two trials that one was a mistrial. Then we had another trial. So during that one year, we had a year of trials, and the biggest trial I had went on for two months. [29:42]Life on Trial [29:38]So I basically had a year of no life where it was just trials. And as you know yourself, when you have trial, it’s not just you just show up at trial. You have trial prep beforehand. And then when you’re actually on trial every day, it’s 20, it’s 24, seven, you have a trial, you have trial, then at night you have to prep a witness. So there’s just constant stuff throughout the day. Yeah, really? It’s a, it’s a long, boring process for you guys. [30:05]You know, these are like what we would say the real Sopranos, you know, the Sopranos, Tom Soprano, and that’s kind of based on this New Jersey family. I tell you, that Soprano, so much of it was ripped from real life. I don’t know. They interviewed you for details. They interviewed some agents and looked some court cases in order to write those scripts. I know that. And in particular, I think of the gay member that was killed. [30:28]The Real Sopranos [30:27]You know, you guys had that down there. So there’s a lot of references in your book or things in the book that the guys will say, oh, yeah, they did that in the Sopranos. Can you tell us about some of them? [30:37]Well, the thing that was great, especially for trial, is in March of 1999, the show starts in January of 1999. And we have a consensual recording in March where we have DeCavocanti members talking about the show and them saying, saying, this is you, this is you, and this is you, which was priceless for trial. Right. It’s like a jury’s going to hear that. And even during the trial, the judge had to give the jury instructions about the show to make sure that it wouldn’t sway their decision. Then if you watch the show, the first season, the official boss in the show dies of stomach cancer. In real life, that’s happened in real life. In June of 1997, Jake Amari was the acting boss of the Decaval Canty family. He dies of stomach cancer. So that’s a… [31:40]It’s a part of the show right there. Then I know everyone sees the strip club, right? Well, the acting boss, as I told you at the time, Vincent Palermo, he had a strip club in Queens, Wiggles. [31:53]So there’s a similarity there. Then they have the meat market that they go to, right, back and forth in the show. That’s a real meat market. I don’t want to say the name of the real meat market here, but there is a real type of meat market there. We discussed the union angle, the two unions that they have. So there’s so many scams related to the unions. There’s the no show job, right, where you don’t have to show up to work. There’s the no work job where you come, but you don’t have to do any work at all. [32:26]Back then, what it was called was they had union halls, right, where you actually had to show up early in the morning. There’d be a line of people, and you would show up. It was called the shape up. and you would wait online and hopefully that you would get work that day. Well, the DeCable Cante members, they wouldn’t show up early and wait online. They would show up whenever they want and they would cut the line and they would get work. So these were their types of unions that they had. Then, as you mentioned, there was the gay angle too. So on the DeCable Cante real side, there was a guy named John D’Amato. And John D’Amato basically made himself the acting boss when John Riggie went to jail in the early 1990s. John D’Amato was part, was very close to John Gotti. There was a murder. It’s probably the most indictable murder in mob history called the murder of Fred Weiss. John Gotti wanted Fred Weiss killed because John Gotti thought that Fred Weiss was cooperating with the government. all because Fred Weiss switched lawyers. [33:35]He was paranoid that Fred Weiss was cooperating. So it became a race to kill Fred Weiss. So you had two mob families trying to kill him, the Decalvo Canty family and the Gambino family. So in total, I think either 15 people at least have either pled guilty or have been convicted of that murder. That murder happened on 9-11-1989, a horrible day, right? So, where I’m going is that happened in 89. In 1990, 1991, John D’Amato becomes the acting boss of the family. So, now he’s the acting boss of the DeKalb Alcanti family. John D’Amato had a girlfriend. His girlfriend starts to tell Anthony Capo that John D’Amato is going to sex clubs with her and they’re having sex with men. So this is this is brought to Anthony Capo’s attention. And he has to tell his superiors that we have a gay acting boss representing our family. And in his eyes, this cannot happen. Right. So he brings it to Vincent Palermo, brings it to Rudy Ferron, and the superiors that this is what’s happening. And they decide that he has to be killed. Now, also what he was doing was, and you speak to Anthony Rotondo, who also cooperated with the government. [34:58]John DeMotta was also stealing money from the family. He was borrowing money from the other families, telling him that it was for the DeCalbacanti family, but it was really to cover his game of the gambling losses that he was incurring. So those are two things that he was doing. Right. He was he was if you ask Anthony Rotondo, he says he was killed because of the gambling that he was incurring the losses. And if he asks Anthony Capo, he was killed because it was looking bad for our family, for their family, that he was a gay acting boss. And at that time, it wasn’t acceptable. Times have changed. But back then, it wasn’t an acceptable thing. And that’s similar to the show. There’s a gay angle within the show as well. [35:41]The Gay Angle in the Mob [35:42]Interesting. It’s the real Sopranos. I remember I watched that show, even going back and watch some of them every once in a while. And I just think, wow, that’s real. So, so even though the director says no one was speaking to them, it’s kind of ironic that there are a lot of like similarities between the show and real life. Yeah. And especially down there in New Jersey and, and, and their connection to the Bonanno family or to a New York, the New York families. And then also, and then also within the show is, is, is the stock stood. There’s also stocks. Oh yeah, the stock fraud. Yeah. They did a boiler room or something. And they were pumping and dumping stocks and Tony was making money out of that. So, yeah, that’s I’d forget. And then from and in real life, Bill Abrama was like the wizard of Wall Street. [36:37]So interesting. Well, you’ve had quite, quite a career. What do you think about New York organized crime now that today, you know, we just had quack, quack, Ruggiero, Ruggiero’s son and some other guys that were connected to families indicted for gambling. He’s got my gambling fraud. I haven’t really studied it yet. It is like they had some rig gambling games, which is common. Like in Kansas city, when I was working this, they would have, they would bring in guys who would love to gamble and had money businessmen. And then they’d, they’d play them for sure. They would cheat them and take a bunch of money from them. This was much more sophisticated, but that’s a, that’s a story that’s been going on a long time. You think that Bob is on a comeback from that? Ha, ha, ha, ha. [37:24]The mob has been around for 125 years. They’re not going to go away. Okay. They get smarter and they adapt. And it’s like, I haven’t read the indictment from head to toe, but they’ve used some, you know, sophisticated investigative techniques just to kind of con people. So they’re getting better, right? So some of the techniques that they use when you hear, it’s like some of the things that I saw where the poker tables that they use, the tables that they use were able to see the card. So they use some pretty, you know, slick techniques, you know, and then like some of the glasses or the contact lenses. So, you know, they’re not going to go away. They’re just going to keep on trying to rebuild. That’s why you have to continue to put resources towards them. Yeah. I think what people don’t understand for these mob guys, it’s if they don’t get out and go into legitimate business selling real estate or something like that. It’s it’s a constant scam a constant hustle every day to figure out another way to make money because they don’t have a paycheck coming in and so they got to figure out a way to make money and they got to make it fast and they got to make it big and in a short period of time it’s just constant every day every time they walk by knew a drug addict one time as a professional burglar and he said every time he’s in recovery he said every time i’ll buy a pharmacy he said in my mind I’m figuring out how to take that pharmacy off. So that’s the way these mob guys are. [38:52]And sports betting has been a staple of theirs forever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the apps are getting into them a little bit, but I see what’s going on now. Also, we had these players, Trailblazers coach and a couple, three players, are now helping people rig the bets. And you go to the apps, and you bet a bunch of money on some guy who’s going to have a bad day. And then he just doesn’t show up to work. You end up being the supervisor of the Columbo squad, I see. Same as after that DeCavoconte case, and you spent all that time, you ended up getting promoted to a supervisor and you must’ve been good because they kept you right there in New York and gave you another mob squad. I know one agent here in Kansas City that was promoted and he kept the one squad here, as they called it. [39:43]Leading the Columbo Squad [39:40]And that was really unusual. Usually it’d be somebody in from out of town. So that says something about you. So tell us about your experiences doing that. [39:48]Well, after we did this case, which was about six years, I was requested to go down to run the Columbo squad. And at that time, I think the Columbo squad had eight supervisors in eight years. I really thought I was too young to be a supervisor because I only had six years on. So I was basically voluntold, I would say, to go down there. And guys, that is young. I want to tell you something. I’ve seen a lot of different Bob squad supervisors come through here in Kansas City. And and they were all you know like 20 year agents 15 18 year agents that came from somewhere else so yeah so you know again I thought I was just way too young to be a supervisor as I said I was just on the job for about six years and I was voluntold to go down there yeah and I said if I’m going to go down there there’s a couple of things just based upon what I saw a I’m not a yes man and two the squad needs some sort of stability so I went down there and I was able to stay there I was there from actually December of 2004 all the way up until June of 2013. [40:51]So we at that time when I first got there we really didn’t have a lot of cases going trying to go on so I was able to change the tactics right because I think juries had changed at that point in time where instead of having a historical witness just go on to stand and tell things, now we had shows out there, right? You had NCIS where the whole DNA-type stuff came in, so I had to change our approach, and proactive witnesses making consensual recordings were the way to go. And I think during a seven-year time period, our squad. [41:24]Did an amazing job. Now it went from C10. I went, the squad went down to, it became C38. And we made probably 1,800 recordings in a seven and a half year time period. So, which is an amazing amount of recordings. So, a lot of transcriptions too. A lot of transcriptions. And I, you know, a three-hour tape could take you a day to listen to because you’re just trying to find that little piece of information. Yeah. Because a lot of it is just talk, right? Yeah. So I think our first big case was in June of 2008. And we took down the acting boss, a bunch of captains. And that’s when things really started to take off. We had a violent soldier cooperate named Joseph Compatiello. And, you know, we talk about proffers. His first proffer, he comes in and he basically tells us that there are three bodies buried right next to each other. So the layman would think, OK, they’re right next to each other. They weren’t right next to each other they were about 1.1 miles apart from each other. [42:28]And you could be in your your room there and we’re trying to find a body it’s really hard to find so we were actually able to find two of the bodies one of the bodies was a guy named while Bill Cattullo he was the under boss of the Colombo family we found him in Formingdale Long Island he was behind a berm we were out there for about eight days and each day you know I’m getting pressure from my superiors. We’re going to find something because there’s a lot of press out there. There was another victim named Cormone Gargano who was buried. He was killed in 1994 and buried out there. Unfortunately, there was a new building built. [43:06]And we could not find him there, but he was initially killed at a body shop in Brooklyn, and they buried him in Brooklyn, and then they decided to dig him up and bring him out to Long Island. So we went back to the body shop. What the Colombo family used to do, though, is they used to kill you, bury you, and put lime on top of the body. What lime does is it kills the smell, but preserves the body. Oh, I didn’t realize that. I thought it was supposed to deteriorate the body too. I think most people bought that. So good information. So, so when we found wall of bill, basically from his, from his hips up were intact. Oh, And when related to Cormier Gargano, because they had killed him in the body shop and then dug him up and brought him out to Long Island. We went back to the shop and figuring, let’s see if we can actually see if there’s any parts of him there. And there actually were. And we’re able to get DNA and tie it back and confirm it was him. [44:15]Major Arrests and Cases [44:12]So that’s how that dismantling of the Colombo family started. And then just to fast forward a little bit in January 2011, we have I spearhead the largest FBI mob arrest where we arrested 127 people that day across the states and also went to Italy, too, to take down people. [44:32]And after that, the Bureau decides to reduce the resources dedicated to organized crime. And I then get the Bonanno family back. So C-10 merges back into my squad. And then I have the Bananos, the Columbos, and the Decafacanthes as well. So now I have all three families back. And I basically run that for another two years. And I guess my last official act as a supervisor is related to Goodfellas, where Jimmy Burke had buried a body in his basement. We saw a 43-year-old cold case murder where he killed an individual named Paul Katz, buried him in his basement. And when he went away for the point shaving, the Boston College point shaving case, well, he killed him in 1969, buried him in his basement. Then he goes to jail in the 80s. He gets fearful that the cops that he had on his payroll back in the 60s were going to talk. So he decides to have our witness at the time, Gaspar Valenti, who came forward back in the 80s, moved the body with Vincent S. Our son so they move the body but again they’re not professional so pieces are going to be back there so in 2013 we go back and we dig and we actually find pieces of paul cats and we tie that to dna to his son to his son and we confirm that it was him. [45:57]So that was my last official act as a supervisor. Talk about art, art, imitating life again, you know, in the Goodfellas, they dug up a body. In the Sopranos, they dug up a body. I think I saw another show where they dug up a body. One of them, they were like, man, this smells. [46:13]I mean, can you imagine that going back and having to dig up a body? And then, you know, and, you know, they’re just wearing t-shirts and jeans and maybe leather gloves. And they’d have to deal with all that stuff and put it in some kind of a bag can take it somewhere else oh my god you know i have a question while bill cutello that this guy was part of the the hit team that took him out do you remember anything about right i’m trying to remember i’ve read this story once he was kind of like more of a peacemaker and and if i remember right you remember what the deal was with him well back like what happens is in the early 1990s there’s a colombo war right you have the persicos versus the arena faction and one thing about the Colombos and the Persicos, they never forget. So in the early 1990s, while Bill Cotullo was on the arena side, and as I said, there was a war where approximately 13 people were killed. In the late 1990s, Ali Persico was going to be going to jail, and while Bill Cotullo thought that Ali was going to go to jail and that he would take over the family, Ali didn’t want that to happen. So basically while Vilcunzulo thought he was getting the keys to the kingdom and they were going to kill him. [47:28]And what they did is they lured him to Dino Saraceno’s house in Brooklyn and Dino Calabro lured him into the basement and shot him in the back of the head. And we had all these guys then decide to cooperate. As I said, Joe Caves was the first person to cooperate. Dino Calabro cooperated. [47:48]Sebi Saraceno cooperated. So we had a whole host of people cooperate and we were able to dismantle the Colombo family. And I’ve been extremely blessed to be part of teams that have dismantled three families, Bananos, the Columbos, and the D. Calacanti family. So, you know, as I said, and it’s never just one person. It’s always teammates, partners, and also other supervisors that I’ve had. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, it does take a lot of people to take those down. When you’re writing books, you try to make sure everybody gets a little bit of credit. Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, the thing that was that was, you know, crazy when related to the recovery of Wild Bill is we had our evidence response team out there. And, you know, the witness takes us out there to show us where he thinks the bodies are buried. And related to Wild Bill, it was in the back of a field. And he kept on saying it was behind a berm. So we took him back there and he showed us where he thought it was. So we had our evidence response team dig. And they basically dug us an Olympic-sized pool. [48:57]We could not find him. So there was two other sites that we were trying to look at because Richie Greaves was supposed to be next to the train tracks. And as I mentioned, Cormac Gargano was next to a building that had been replaced. So my squad, actually our squad, C-38, decides, Seamus, do you mind if we get some shovels? So I was like, sure. So there was, because we were just looking at each other at the time. So my team, Vincent D’Agostino, they’re pretty close by. He got some shovels and came back. And there was like six of us. And we just started digging ourselves. So we dug in one area, nothing. Then another agent basically said, let’s dig over here. [49:38]And sure enough, like talk about, you know, I always say hard work leads to good luck. We started digging and then we found the white stuff. We found the line and jackpot. It was while Bill, he was hogtied face down with his feet up. And as soon as I saw the white stuff and then I saw, you know, like his foot, then we stopped and I said, let me go get the professionals. I ran over, I drove over, and I got the team leader from ERT. She got in the car. And, you know, of course, she’s very excited. I was like, you know, we F.M. got him, you know. And so I drove her back over there. And that’s when you kind of contain the crime scene. And we were able to find him. But, you know, it was our squad that found him. And then, as I said before, then, you know, our squad decides to go back to the body shop. And we found remnants of Carmine Gargano there. So the squad just did an amazing job but really we basically found two bodies ourselves you know and i think in my career i’ve been extremely blessed to find five you know which is just crazy well that’s not something those accountants and lawyers and stuff were trained for you need to get those former cops out there on those shovels and digging for bodies. [50:57]Final Thoughts and Stories [50:57]Well interesting this this has really been fun seamus any any other stories you can think of You want to you want to just want to tell just busting to make sure people know that’s in this book. I tell you what, guys, this is an interesting book. It’s it’s, you know, as I said, those kinds of stories and the procedures and how FBI works. There’s there’s a lot of stories in there. I don’t want to give to give the book away. You know, there’s a lot of stories even. Yeah. You know, there’s an even during that year of trials. There’s plenty of stories there. There was a blackout that that year, too. So there’s a lot of stories related to that. You know, even even the trials, there’s a lot of things that came up at trial. So I don’t want to give to give those stories away. But I think it’s a good read. As I said, I think it’s one of the few books that actually explains things because, you know, I think the public hears these words, but they don’t know what these words mean. And I just think it’s important that they do know what it means, because there’s a lot of things that go on behind the scenes, especially with the jury. Right. You know, the jury only sees what they see. There’s a lot of things that go on when the jury leaves the room between the government, the judge and also the defense attorney. So I try to bring to shed some light related to that as well. [52:13]Interesting. Well, Seamus McElherney. And the book is Flipping Capo. That’s Anthony Capo. The first guy to be flipped in the Cavalcante family ever, which led to a cascade of other mob guys flipping, didn’t it? [52:32]Sure did. Just like in a Bonanno family, you know, they start flipping there. And it just, I didn’t know where it was ever going to end. Finally, it ended. [52:41]It sure did. Well, I have to say, it’s been great to meet you. I wish you continued success. And this has been a lot of fun. All right. Yeah, it’s been great to have you on Seamus. Thanks a lot. Don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. So when you’re out on the streets there and you’re a big F-150, watch out for those little motorcycles when you’re out. If you have a problem with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, be sure and go to the VA website. They’ll help with your drugs and alcohol problem if you’ve got that problem or gambling. If not, you can go to Anthony Ruggiano. He’s a counselor down in Florida. He’s got a hotline on his website. If you’ve got a problem with gambling, most states will have, if you have gambling, most states will have a hotline number to call. Just have to search around for it. You know, I’ve always got stuff to sell. I got my books. I got my movies. They’re all on Amazon. I got links down below in the show notes and just go to my Amazon sales page and you can figure out what to do. I really appreciate y’all tuning in and we’ll keep coming back and doing this. Thanks guys.

Send us a textThe Bums make a triumphant return to the most southernly rail yard with S5:E0139, as the top knot snaps off with Chicago Bears report (us bitching and moaning even though they are atop the NFC North); Green Bay is purportedly already done with head coach Matt “LaFlower” LaFleur (lol); Saquon Barkley in rare air, but still down the list for RB single game yards; a bone is picked with LSU (it goes how you'd expect); Hall of Fame season recounts NHL and MLB awards and noms; while pitching prop bets had a short run; and the first half closes with a somber ending to an Oakland legend's run (he of “Last Chance U” fame — boo).On a brighter note, we're going to drink our sorrows away with another double booze review with “Grid” (ABV 4.75%, yes down to two decimal places) an American Pale Ale from local brewery, Hop Butcher, that tastes great and reeks of Citra & Mosaic hops — followed up by a super rare and special (you can only get it in one place) “Sean Irish Whisky”, a single malt whiskey that is slicker than seal shit on a glacier, another Paddy donation, yum AF; Rocky provides a Sicilian travelogue walkthrough; Russian tech never disappoints; another Chow Report features a classic Chicago tapas place; Rocky rejoices, as loose change starts it's  journey to extinction.  All of this without the burden of quality or content.  Get more while you still can.Recorded on November 16th, 2025 at B.O.M.'s global headquarters, Paddy's Southside Cave, in Chicago, IL.

Send us a textIn this first episode after the reconquest of Constantinople we see the retaliation that was planned for the Greeks in the form of a Crusade. Charles of Anjou prepares a mighty army in Sicily to invade the Balkans and capture the city of Constantinople from the Nicaeans. But Emperor Michael Palaiologos was ready for this, and used his network of spies to encourage rebellion amongst the local Sicilians, and by the Grace of God, the island rebelled against he French in what has become known to history as the Sicilian Vesper Revolution.Here is a link to see the Sicilian Vesper Flag, in use during one of the Sicilian Independence Marches.https://youtu.be/QoozWKTBq1k?si=y_CRIXH1F7UxFnttThe History of Modern Greece Podcast covers the events from Ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, and the fall of Constantinople in 1453, to the years under the Ottoman Empire, and 1821 when the Greeks fought for independence... all the way to the modern-day.Website: www.moderngreecepodcast.comSOCIAL MEDIA: Go here to chat with us. https://www.instagram.com/historyofmodern%20greece/https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61578023316172Music by Mark Jungerman: www.marcjungermann.comCheck out our 2nd Podcast: www.antecedors.com

Hey EIChihuahuas, happy Friday! To celebrate, we gift you a brand new episode, kisses.This week on the podcast it's just Oenone & Beth steering the content ship through the choppy waters of: The Real Housewives of London, the biblical new release from Rosalía, & a controversial new celebrity skincare line.First... Real housewives of London premiered this summer, with many curious as to how this beloved show would fare across the Atlantic. The series follows eight women navigating London's ultra-wealthy social circles, balancing old money, new money, & country piles. There's glamorous events, designer drama, & class tensions with the expected Housewives mix of alliances, gossip, & fallouts. The series sees the women get into blows over some dubious dentistry aka teeth-gate, renting outfits, not picking up the bill & the definition of ‘best friend'. We share our thoughts on the series & the explosive two-parter reunion.Next up, on November 6 Pretty Little Liars star Shay Mitchell launched a new line of sheet masks for children. Everyone's writing about it from Glamour, to Marie Claire, The New York post & The Metro, & not an insignificant number of you guys in our DMs, too. So is this a dystopian nightmare, or just a bit of harmless fun that's been blown out of proportion?And last but by no means least, an album hotly anticipated globally, but also very much on this podcast, & that is LUX, the fourth record by Spanish singer and songwriter Rosalía. According to Pitchfork it's “a heartfelt offering of avant-garde classical pop that roars through genre, romance, and religion”. The BBC called it “radical and riveting” & NME said it's “an arresting album of astonishing scope and ambition”. The 33 year old, who is a trained Flamenco singer, sings in 13 different languages on the album, including Japanese, Arabic, Portuguese, Latin and Sicilian, and worked for a year writing the lyrics and working with professional translators to make sure they were just right. It is receiving an avalanche of five star reviews for artistry, composition, narrative, lyrics. The album is now out, we've both listened to it... We're by no means musical experts, but we give our thoughts.Thank you so much to Cue podcasts for the edit.Beth's been loving: Shirley Valentine, The Missing KayakerOenone's been loving: Loren Ipsum, Andrew GallixReal Housewives Of LondonShay Mitchell statement on RiniWhat Dermatologists Really Think About Sheet Masks for Toddlers - Rosalía Has Biggest Streaming Debut of Any Female Spanish-Language Artist on Spotify love ya O, R, B xx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode of Taste Buds with Deb, host Debra Eckerling speaks with Melanie Lutz, author of "Everything is Soup: Sicilian Wisdom, Nourishment and Recipes for a Delicious Life."    In the book, Lutz combines her Sicilian and Jewish roots, along with her love of storytelling.   "Soup is life," author Melanie Lutz believes. "When we make a delicious soup that we can serve, we're sharing what we love and we're showing that we care."   With more than 18 seasonal soup recipes, handwritten notes, and ancestral sayings, the mixture of food memories and wisdom is as filling as it is fulfilling.   While there is clearly a huge Sicilian component to the book, Lutz also included a nod to her Jewish roots in honor of Stuart Norman Levy, a member on her Jewish side, who passed away while she was writing the book.   "His recipe … Stu's stew is a hodgepodge of everything that you love," Lutz says. "[It] supports you and is there for you … he served it up and made it just magic for anyone who sat down and, and shared a bowl with him." Get the recipe at JewishJournal.com/podcasts.   Melanie Lutz talks about the origin story behind "Everything is Soup" and why she loves soup so much. She also shares the meanings behind "stirring the pot," tips for becoming more at one with soup, and more.   "The vortex of a bowl of soup and the fact that we're largely made up of water … when you stir the pot, you create this alchemical experience of opening the heart," she explains. "Any soup that you put together becomes … this way that we connect through generations of the earth's elements."   Learn more at MelsLoveLand.com and grab a copy of "Everything is Soup."   For more from Taste Buds, subscribe on iTunes and YouTube, and follow @TheDEBMethod on social media.

Original Episode Transcript FollowsStephanie:Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish, the podcast where we talk about food. A lot of times we talk to cookbook authors and kind of understand their process and what they're doing. Well, I'm just noticing my hair is real bedhead, but it is what it is. Friends, in this particular episode, I want to talk to my friend Michael Kenney. He is from Defined Destinations. He owns his own business, and it's a travel company. And. And Michael and I met about three years ago now, and we have done a number of trips together, and we are planning our April trip, which is going to be to Turkey, and we have a lot of different cities that we're going to visit.And one of the things that I've heard from a lot of people is they all know we're going to Turkey and they want to hear about it, and they're excited to know about the destination, but they're nervous about signing up for the trip. So said to Michael, let's just talk. Let's do a podcast where we give people an idea of what to expect, where we're going, what kind of things we're going to see. My friend Todd Walker, coincidentally has. He's in Turkey right now. And he said. And he's been. He travels all over.He works for the Viking Cruise Lines, doing trips for them and helping to write about them and help people experience them. He sent me a text, and he said, turkey is in his top three places he's ever been. He's just super hot on it. He's like, you are totally going at the exact right time. Because he's like, people are just starting to learn about it, but there's so many cool things. He said it's a trip like nothing has ever experienced before. So, Michael, I'm excited to talk to you about it. And people ask me like, well, why did you pick turkey? And I was like, why not? I have always.I met a guy 20 years ago and in Paris that was from Turkey, and first of all, he was gorgeous, so let's just go there. But second of all, he really, like, he just was telling me about where he lived and what Turkey was like and what the food was like. And he talked to me about the spice Trail and kind of how people came in through Istanbul and then crossed over into Italy and into Spain. And it made me feel like, wow, okay. Turkey is this very Mediterranean feeling place with tons of culture, and I've always wanted to go there, so I picked it. Michael, why did you allow me to pick Turkey? Knowing that it would be a destination that would be harder to sell for people.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I think that's what's great. And thanks for having me on, Stephanie. It's always a blast, you know, to travel with you and with your, your listeners. It just, we've built some really great bonds with the people, which has been a fun. So even our latest trip to Sicily. What, what a blast. And great people.Stephanie:Yes.Michael Kenney:But you going back to why we choose this and with Turkey, and that's what's great about you. It's like you're willing to try some new areas. And a lot of people are like, well, I've heard of Turkey. I don't know much about it. And I think that's where we both kind of glammed on. Like, let's go and let's have this experience. And we've been putting group trips together for 27 years and we have some great partners and some Turkish partners, too, that can really open up the, the eyes. I know several people that have been to, to Istanbul and everyone's heard of Istanbul, like, oh, it's a top five city on earth for a lot of people.And you're probably wondering, well, why? So I encourage you to kind of jump in, look at our website, do a little research on that. But Turkey is so, so much more than that. I. They have absolutely stunning beaches, their food culture, their spices, the seaside communities, the, the Roman ruins. They have so much in different little pockets. So Turkey offers. And I think that's what maybe gravitated you and I both to it. Just the diversity and still a little of that wonder, like what's, what's really, what's in Turkey.And I think, you know, we, we talked about a little earlier before the podcast about some of the places, you know, that are kind of overrun with tourists. And definitely Turkey is not there. It will be at some point. So it's kind of fun to get on maybe the ground level to, to some of these places and not just Istanbul, because it, it is busy, but some of the other places that we're going to go from Ephesus to Kabukia or Pamuk. There's so many different places that are on this trip that you've never even heard of. So it's kind of like, well, I haven't really heard of that. Go, go look at our website. Go do a little research on the Internet and see what.It's so amazing. The Europeans, they know of Turkey really, really well because it's a, it's a quick flight and they Absolutely love it. I'm in Europe nine times a year and the folks that I talk with over there, they absolutely love it. So it's kind of like a discovery trip for Americans. And what's great about our trip that will, it's fully guided. We have 31 meals included. We have the inner flight inside, Turkey included. So there's really no out of pocket expense for that.So you can really sit back and relax and take in the best of Turkey with our local guides. And there's just so much and I think that's what's going to be kind of fun to go discover. This place in our group is going to be no more than 15 people. It's a small group experience so you can really relax and enjoy that. And I know folks that maybe, well, what's a group tour? You know, I think you even mentioned that too for some people. Like, well, what do you do? It's again, we've kind of handled everything. We've taken care of the hotels, the buses, the cooking class that we're going to do. I mean, you might want to touch on that later.But we've taken all of that, these best of experiences and put it in one itinerary so you can sit back and relax and know that you're going to see the best of Turkey.Stephanie:I think explaining my husband Kurt's sort of transformation is good here. My husband is an independent person. He's owned his own business, he's a sailor. He would, he, he has no interest really in group travel. Like when I brought it up to him and that I was going to start leading trips, he was like, why would you want to do that? Why would you want to be with people you don't even know? Like, he is just anti group travel as a rule. And he came on our first trip, he wanted to come with us when we went to Cambodia and we went to Vietnam. He knew that he would never plan a trip to Asia on his own. So he thought, well, I'll go along on this group travel and I'll just suck up the group travel part because I get to go to this cool destination.Well, what happened is he loved it. He liked group travel. He liked meeting new people. He liked not being the person that had to be in charge of making sure that we got our luggage to the room and that we made it to the right flights and that he had to carry all the stuff and all the itinerary. He kind of liked that he wasn't responsible for all that. And he liked the food, he liked Meeting the people he liked, not having to be in a city he'd never been in and figure out exactly where we were going to eat every single meal. We had flexibility. Obviously, on these trips, we want it to be your trip.In our Sicily experience, you mentioned a couple times, like, if this doesn't feel like something you want to do, then don't do it. Do something else for the day. We can help you orchestrate other things. He really loved the idea that he didn't have to do everything. And in fact, when we did our cooking class in Sicily, which was amazing, by the way, we learned to make arancini, which they call arancino. We made a thing called a pinella, which was a chickpea pancake that they eat in a sandwich, which was kind of different. But Kurt didn't want to do the cooking class. He was like, you know what? I think I'm just gonna go walk around the city.So him and another friend peeled off and, like, that's the joy of these trips. We plan everything, but if you're tired or if you just want a day of rest, you can do that too. We really try to make it so that we know it's your experience. We're not as interested in you just being forced to come along on things that you're not interested in. We're interested in your experience. We want you to have a good time. So if Kurt Johnson can get turned on to group travel, I feel like, seriously, anyone can.Michael Kenney:No, that's. That's well said. I would have never guessed that about Kurt initially. You know, and I wouldn't call him an introvert by any means, but I think we get, you know, a lot of people like that with. With. Kurt. You know, maybe their. Their.Their husband or their wife drags them on a trip, and they're like, you know what? This is actually pretty cool, especially for the person that maybe is doing typically all the planning. And it's stressful. You know, we do all that for you, but you can really, again, sit back and enjoy. You spend a lot of money to go on these trips, and that's what we want. So we want you to feel like you. You have that. That freedom, too. When we set up our hotels in nice, central locations and safe areas, too, that you can go out and explore, so we encourage you to do that.But honestly, we feel pretty good that the pace of these trips are designed really well, that you have that flexibility, because we want you. Yes, you're in a group, even a small group, but we want to make it feel like you're having these experience with, with a friend or a family member that's with you too, that you, you feel like you're, you're having these little exploring trips, but it's all kind of put together already for you. But again, we, we have time for you to go exploring, to have these other experiences, which is really, really important. Balance is so important. Over 27 years, I think we've really, we focus on that so we know that, that people are comfortable having that free time to explore. But again, having the, the framework of an itinerary with, with experiences. Typically, we might do a city tour in the, in the morning and then have the rest of your day free to have your own exploring. Then maybe for, especially for this trip with the 31 meals that will meet up and have dinner in a place.And again, they're all being curated with our local team too, in the area that you're going to have foods local from the area in great mom PA type of restaurants. So sometimes it's stressful when you're trying to figure out where am I going to go eat, what should I do? I want to make sure the dinner is going to be great. We've got that taken care of so you can sit back and relax. And again, we know most of you probably have not heard of a lot of these places. Please, we implore you to go and take a look at the itinerary, do a little research, because I guarantee in a few years from now, these are going to be mainstream and you'll be able to go explore and see these places before they're overly busy. So take a look at this itinerary.Stephanie:I was impressed because when I first was thinking about Turkey, I went on a map and I didn't realize, like, when I started going to Croatia, I didn't realize how close Croatia is to Italy. That literally they share a sea and that a lot of Italians use Croatia as their summer vacation spot.Michael Kenney:Yeah.Stephanie:And I didn't also realize that Turkey and Italy are very close and that a lot of Europeans, because they've got EasyJet there, that's an Italian airline, they're going to Turkey like we would be going to Palm Springs. I mean, a lot of Europeans are experiencing Turkey and it's just not a destination that a lot of Americans are familiar with. But a lot of people are going there and having fun, doing fun things. This. It's been so fun for me to watch my friend Todd Walker, because he went to Cappadocia, which is a city that we're going to go to and they have all these fairy houses that are like these stone. They look like dunce caps sort of. They're these weird structures. And he, like, actually spent the night in one of them.He did a hot air balloon r there, which is part of our itinerary. If someone wants to add that on, I know Kurt's going to do that. It's like he went and he had all this video of it where there's 140 hot air balloons going up kind of all at once out of this city. It just looks so completely cool. And then the. The huge market. There's like, the world's largest market. So all of these trips, I always end up with a group of great women shoppers.And I'm like, okay, bring an extra bag, ladies, because you're going to come home with a rug and you're going to come home with all of these spices. There's 4,000 stalls in the Grand Market in Istanbul. Do you know that?Michael Kenney:Yeah, the Grand Bazaar. I didn't know exactly how many, but, yeah, it's massive.Stephanie:So just that, like, I love getting into a market and just, like, seeing all the different things, feeling all the different spices. In Sicily, we had an opportunity to go to the market, and afterwards we had our. Our local guide that kind of takes you around and shows you where everything is and gives you a sense of maybe what to look for at the market. And then we split up and Kurt and I, he just wanted to drink beer in the market and kind of experience feeling in the market. So we went and got sandwiches. But a bunch of other people, like, shop till they dropped. Like, they had huge shopping bags full of stuff. So if your jam is shopping, great.If your jam is just sitting and taking in the culture, great. Like, you can also learn more about a city by spending time with the city guides that are with us. They're always having lunch with us, and we have a bus driver that we get to know in certain trips. It really just. We just got back from Sicily and we had such a great experience. We had such a great trip. It was probably one of my favorite groups because a lot of the folks had traveled with us before, so we really knew each other, too. It's group travel is really fun.I'm just. I don't know, I'm really jazzed about it, and I'm jazzed about Turkey, and I want people to come. If you could describe Ephesus, because that's a place that I haven't been before and you have what is that like?Michael Kenney:Yeah, Ephesus, it was, you know, built by the Romans in the time of Christ, so 2,000 years ago. And it's. You're walking through. It's. It's unbelievable. It's not like when you're at the Roman Coliseum or that area around there that's actually, it feels like it's in. More in ruins, if you will. But you're like in this village, this Roman village that you can think of, the Apostles walk, maybe if you're, you know, religious.Mary, Jesus's mother, has walked. And the. Still, the stone streets are there. You know, a lot of the buildings are in ruins, but the library, the, the whole front facade is still there. It's, it's unreal. It feels like you're just being brought back in time. And there's truly nothing like Ephesus, which is just right outside of the, the village of Kusadasi, or city in Turkey. But it's, it's like the.If, again, if I could have an analogy, like you're in Rome, but to another level that it's, it's much more, I would say intact. Still in ruins, but intact. But this, this, this village that it's in hibernation. So walking these streets. And we have these local guides as you touched on too, that kind of can bring everything to, to, to life. So, you know, you're not looking through your, your book and trying to like, well, what is this? You listen to an audio guide or our, our local guide speaking about that. So you're learning about the history. But Ephesus is, is.Is unbelievable. And we're not going to see. There's other ruins and more Roman sites and throughout this trip, so you'll really get, you know, a history. I wouldn't say a deep dive. They touch on it. So you're not like, oh, this is so boring. But you even said it's, it's a trip like this is great for, for shoppers, if you want to shop. I'm not a shopper.I like to do what Kurt does. Sit down, maybe have a beer and take it all in and do nothing. Just take in the people walking around, the smells. There's. There's nothing like it. And again, I think this trip to Turkey really offers a potpourri of different experiences. So if you're a foodie, if you're into photography, to culture, to history, this trip really ticks all the boxes. And I guarantee it, you'll love it.You'll love the trip. But then even at the end you. There's a great chance you're going to make lifelong friends on, on a trip like this too. So it's, it really ticks a box of. Of of experiences. So hopefully April is a great time to go to. The temperatures you can expect, you know, low 70s, you know, 50s, 60s at night. So it's really comfortable.Not like in the summer when it's really busy and it's busier with the Europeans and the temperatures hotter. This April time is a great time to visit for sure.Stephanie:Can you talk a little bit about what the food is like? Like, I have an idea, but I don't really know. Like, is it Mediterranean? Is it like meat and pomegranates and couscous?Michael Kenney:Yep, you're nailing it right now. No, it. It is like that. So I think I encourage again people to. To look online too, to see what some of these are. But you maybe have heard of, you know, baklava or, you know, kebabs, the lamb, the beef, the chicken. They have, you know, the different kebabs, lots of different spices, ganache, as many, you know, like fried dishes too, but then a lot of cooked on open fires. But I would say, I wouldn't necessarily say it's comfort food, like German, you know, in having, you know, some of the staples that you might know, but still something that's not too odd.It's probably more closer to home than maybe some of the French food you would see. But you'll see a lot of lamb, the beef, I said some of the fried foods, lots of, you know, from your Turkish delights and different things like that. So I think even when we're walking around in the market, you'll get that. And then we'll at our dinners have different meals as well that will infuse some of these different experiences. So it won't be something completely foreign, but it'll be. It'll be comfortable enough that I think you'll enjoy it, but it definitely be a nice array of different experiences with the food.Stephanie:I haven't told you this, but one of the places, and I don't know where I'm going to do this, but I am going to find. Have you ever been to a hammam or done the spa experience where like, you lay on like hot marble and it's sort of like a sauna and you get sweaty and then you like, go into a room and they like brush you with salt and scrubby things and like completely clean you. It's a Muslim tradition and it's the most amazing thing I've ever done. I did this in Athens and I loved it so much. We went three times while we were in Athens.Michael Kenney:Wow.Stephanie:Find a spa that does this there. I don't know in what city or where we are, but I know a local guide can help me when we get there.Michael Kenney:Yep.Stephanie:Both Kurt and I, it was just the most amazing, relaxing experience. Just someone scrubbing you with all these different herbs and salts. And they have weird little brushes that your eyes are closed and. And you can't even. Like. One of them was this big, puffy, like, pillow feeling that was running across the top of your body. It was so weird, but so great.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I haven't done it. I've seen them. I've done, like, the part that we're just going in, like, in the. In the sauna or the steam bath. That's it. I haven't had the full rub down yet. Maybe on this Turkish.Stephanie:We're going to do it. Yeah, it's great. I'll do it.Michael Kenney:No, it'll be fun, but no, it's very popular over there. The Turkish amans. To do that. So there definitely will be that opportunity. I will. I'll give it a shot. You know, it'll be interesting to have someone scrub me down with salts. But, hey, life's about to have any experiences and.And I'm. And I'm. I'm for it, but I'm glad you enjoyed that. But, yes, they definitely have that. And you'll have that opportunity if you want again. It's. Yeah, it's always. It's.Stephanie:I'm not gonna make anyone go get naked and do this, but if you want to get naked and do this, I'm telling you, it's amazing. And they probably actually. They wear bathing suits because they're pretty modest. Or they'll have, like, a separate women's area and a separate men's area. When we did it in Athens, it was men and women together, and we wore bathing suits. And then when you got into the private room, you could take your bathing suit off. And they were very modest and helpful, but.Michael Kenney:Yeah. So being comfortable. Yeah, no, that's. That's great. Well, that'll be. Maybe we'll just get a whole group and do that to get so great.Stephanie:Yeah, it's just like. It was one of the best things I've ever done. And I. I like spas and massage, and I've done a lot of weird things like that. This was, like, just amazing. Well, I'm excited. I hope that people will join us. The way it works is you can find all the itinerary on defined destinations website.We'll link that in the show notes here you can see each particular day and what city you'll be in and what you'll be doing and what's included. I would imagine in most of these breakfast is included because that's typically a sort of European thing to do. And then as he's. As Michael said, a lot of the meals are included. I do think when you're breaking open a new destination, it's important to kind of give people a sense of what they're going to be experiencing. And food is obviously a big part of that. And food is a big part of my journey on this trip. Turkish delights, if you've never had them, they're like this beautiful little jelly.Turkish coffee is very different. It's a much more intense coffee experience. So if you're a coffee drinker, you'll learn a lot. Also, olive oil is very much present in Turkey. Like again, I keep comparing it to Italy, but it is right across the water. So there's a lot of different olive oils that are used in Turkey, a lot of different spices. We're going to have fun. So the way this works is you can go online, you can put your deposit down and full payment is due I think in January for this trip.You can book your own travel if you want to, meaning get your airfare to get to where we're going to meet for the trip. Or you can use Michael's got a service that can help you book all your airfare. I personally like to control my airfare because I like to have the miles and I like to know exactly how I'm going to set things up on my itinerary. Kurt and I also like to get there like a day or two in advance just to get acclimated a little bit before the rest of you guys come. So that I'm not super jet lagged. I'm on fire by the time you arrive. And yeah, we do. There's going to be a lot of beautiful wine, I'm assuming too, because that's something that there's a great grape destination there.You don't know about Turkish wines yet, but you will. They, they exist. There's actually quite a lot of them. Yeah. And that's how it works. Michael, you've got a special offer just to get people that may be on the fence a little bit. Yeah.Michael Kenney:Well, we're excited. The trip again is April 9th through the 20th. And again, go online, take it just take a look at the website, look at some of the pictures. You'll absolutely love it. And then even all the things that we've talked about that aren't even mentioned in the itinerary, there's so many fun things. But if you're listening to this and you're new to register, you'll get $200 off per person if you register for the trip. Final payment is January 1st, so just think about that. So this would be a great.A great gift for a loved one. Hey, let's. We're going to go to Turkey. And I hear more and more people are. They want to have a travel experience rather than having tangible things about having experiences, especially with ones you love. So hopefully this trip to Turkey, if you want to try something new and have just an amazing experience about a place you maybe haven't heard too much about, I think you'll absolutely love it. So just go to defined destinations.com, like Stephanie said. She'll have the link there, too.Against April 9th through the 20th. You can register right there. If you need help with airfare, we're happy to do that. So we make it pretty easy for you on that end. So we're gonna. We're gonna have a blast with a great group of people and hopefully, you know, you'll want to join this small group of no more than 15 people.Stephanie:Is this the time that we tell people that are listening to maybe stay tuned. I mean, we do have a pretty epic October trip planned.Michael Kenney:Yeah, no, I mean, go for it. We don't have the. All the dates totally confirmed, but we're. Yeah, go ahead.Stephanie:Well, we're working on one of the trips. So I have taken people to Spain, I've taken people to Croatia, I've taken people to Cambodia, Thailand, and now Turkey. And the Croatia trip was really magical and people loved it. And I have a huge fondness for Croatia. Obviously, I've been there a lot, and there were a lot of people that wanted to go on that trip that didn't get the opportunity because it's a luxury experience. It's a luxury yacht. It's small rooms or not small rooms. It's a small ship with actually, the rooms were quite big for a boat.And so we had so many people that wanted to do that itinerary again. Michael said, hey, how about we do it again? But I'll add a couple of new things so that it's a new experience for you too, Stephanie, because there is. I've never been to Zagreb, which seems probably surprising since I've been to Croatia so many times and there's a bunch of these finger lakes. What do they call those? Is it the plastic lakes?Michael Kenney:Yeah, the Plaviche Lakes National Park. Yep.Stephanie:The national parks in Croatia are legendary. If you. I mean Mijet has one of the most beautiful national parks on it with a monastery in the middle of this lake. So we are going to be taking another small group. It'll be smallish. I think we had 28 on our last.Michael Kenney:Yeah, enough to fill the boat. And the boat only can sleep like 34. So it's a small experience on that. But yeah, I'm excited to go back to that again. That's been one of our hot sellers, our Croatia trip. So with the Zagreb and the Blevice lakes and then our seven night cruise, the Croatia trip will be great. So maybe you want to do two trips. Our beautiful Turkey trip in the spring and then come October we'll have this amazing trip to, to Croatia.So go out and have experiences and hopefully you want to join us. I think you'll find great value, great meals just. And great people that to travel with.Stephanie:And if you're listening and you want to explore Michael's other trips because he takes trips with other people, not just me. And also he just guides trips himself. Just tell him that you're a friend of Stephanie's dish so that he knows that you came from my referral. But just like, yeah, if you want to sign up for a Christmas market or you're interested in heading to the Amalfi coast, traveling with defined destinations is a really great opportunity. They do it extremely well. I have traveled a lot and so I've had some good experiences and some not so good experiences. So I know that when you travel with Michael, you're in good hands. I'm still just missing our guide Peter, who was with us on our last Sicilian trip, who turns out has been your friend for like 25 years.I just miss him. He's such a character. I loved him so much.Michael Kenney:Yeah. And that's great. Yeah. Peter's a good friend of mine for. He's our Austrian guy, but he's. He's got family in, in Italy and does some of our, our Central European trips. But again, like you said it too, it's, it's. Again, it's more than just the sights.You're building relationships even if you're not even looking for that. But it's fun to recall and all the good people you've met and the fun experiences you've had along the way. I love what I do, and hopefully it shows in our trips. It's all about having a great experience with great people, so encourage you. And you've been such a great part of the defined destinations family. Thank you, Stephanie.Stephanie:I love it.Michael Kenney:Looking forward to more.Stephanie:If I didn't, people know I would have kicked you to the curb long ago. And you even have got. You've even converted Kurt.Michael Kenney:So, I mean, yeah, that's great. So, yeah, it's about. About having fun and that's what we do. And we'd love to have you on, on any of our trips.Stephanie:Yeah. All right, you guys. So I'll put all that information that you need in the links below. We are going to Turkey and I hope you come. That's all I can say because I'm gonna probably be talking about it non stop because I'm so excited.Michael Kenney:That's great.Stephanie:I'm.Michael Kenney:I'm looking forward to it. Thanks again, Steph.Stephanie:Thanks, Michael. Okay, bye. Bye.Stephanie's Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Original Episode Transcript FollowsStephanie:Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish, the podcast where we talk about food. A lot of times we talk to cookbook authors and kind of understand their process and what they're doing. Well, I'm just noticing my hair is real bedhead, but it is what it is. Friends, in this particular episode, I want to talk to my friend Michael Kenney. He is from Defined Destinations. He owns his own business, and it's a travel company. And. And Michael and I met about three years ago now, and we have done a number of trips together, and we are planning our April trip, which is going to be to Turkey, and we have a lot of different cities that we're going to visit.And one of the things that I've heard from a lot of people is they all know we're going to Turkey and they want to hear about it, and they're excited to know about the destination, but they're nervous about signing up for the trip. So said to Michael, let's just talk. Let's do a podcast where we give people an idea of what to expect, where we're going, what kind of things we're going to see. My friend Todd Walker, coincidentally has. He's in Turkey right now. And he said. And he's been. He travels all over.He works for the Viking Cruise Lines, doing trips for them and helping to write about them and help people experience them. He sent me a text, and he said, turkey is in his top three places he's ever been. He's just super hot on it. He's like, you are totally going at the exact right time. Because he's like, people are just starting to learn about it, but there's so many cool things. He said it's a trip like nothing has ever experienced before. So, Michael, I'm excited to talk to you about it. And people ask me like, well, why did you pick turkey? And I was like, why not? I have always.I met a guy 20 years ago and in Paris that was from Turkey, and first of all, he was gorgeous, so let's just go there. But second of all, he really, like, he just was telling me about where he lived and what Turkey was like and what the food was like. And he talked to me about the spice Trail and kind of how people came in through Istanbul and then crossed over into Italy and into Spain. And it made me feel like, wow, okay. Turkey is this very Mediterranean feeling place with tons of culture, and I've always wanted to go there, so I picked it. Michael, why did you allow me to pick Turkey? Knowing that it would be a destination that would be harder to sell for people.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I think that's what's great. And thanks for having me on, Stephanie. It's always a blast, you know, to travel with you and with your, your listeners. It just, we've built some really great bonds with the people, which has been a fun. So even our latest trip to Sicily. What, what a blast. And great people.Stephanie:Yes.Michael Kenney:But you going back to why we choose this and with Turkey, and that's what's great about you. It's like you're willing to try some new areas. And a lot of people are like, well, I've heard of Turkey. I don't know much about it. And I think that's where we both kind of glammed on. Like, let's go and let's have this experience. And we've been putting group trips together for 27 years and we have some great partners and some Turkish partners, too, that can really open up the, the eyes. I know several people that have been to, to Istanbul and everyone's heard of Istanbul, like, oh, it's a top five city on earth for a lot of people.And you're probably wondering, well, why? So I encourage you to kind of jump in, look at our website, do a little research on that. But Turkey is so, so much more than that. I. They have absolutely stunning beaches, their food culture, their spices, the seaside communities, the, the Roman ruins. They have so much in different little pockets. So Turkey offers. And I think that's what maybe gravitated you and I both to it. Just the diversity and still a little of that wonder, like what's, what's really, what's in Turkey.And I think, you know, we, we talked about a little earlier before the podcast about some of the places, you know, that are kind of overrun with tourists. And definitely Turkey is not there. It will be at some point. So it's kind of fun to get on maybe the ground level to, to some of these places and not just Istanbul, because it, it is busy, but some of the other places that we're going to go from Ephesus to Kabukia or Pamuk. There's so many different places that are on this trip that you've never even heard of. So it's kind of like, well, I haven't really heard of that. Go, go look at our website. Go do a little research on the Internet and see what.It's so amazing. The Europeans, they know of Turkey really, really well because it's a, it's a quick flight and they Absolutely love it. I'm in Europe nine times a year and the folks that I talk with over there, they absolutely love it. So it's kind of like a discovery trip for Americans. And what's great about our trip that will, it's fully guided. We have 31 meals included. We have the inner flight inside, Turkey included. So there's really no out of pocket expense for that.So you can really sit back and relax and take in the best of Turkey with our local guides. And there's just so much and I think that's what's going to be kind of fun to go discover. This place in our group is going to be no more than 15 people. It's a small group experience so you can really relax and enjoy that. And I know folks that maybe, well, what's a group tour? You know, I think you even mentioned that too for some people. Like, well, what do you do? It's again, we've kind of handled everything. We've taken care of the hotels, the buses, the cooking class that we're going to do. I mean, you might want to touch on that later.But we've taken all of that, these best of experiences and put it in one itinerary so you can sit back and relax and know that you're going to see the best of Turkey.Stephanie:I think explaining my husband Kurt's sort of transformation is good here. My husband is an independent person. He's owned his own business, he's a sailor. He would, he, he has no interest really in group travel. Like when I brought it up to him and that I was going to start leading trips, he was like, why would you want to do that? Why would you want to be with people you don't even know? Like, he is just anti group travel as a rule. And he came on our first trip, he wanted to come with us when we went to Cambodia and we went to Vietnam. He knew that he would never plan a trip to Asia on his own. So he thought, well, I'll go along on this group travel and I'll just suck up the group travel part because I get to go to this cool destination.Well, what happened is he loved it. He liked group travel. He liked meeting new people. He liked not being the person that had to be in charge of making sure that we got our luggage to the room and that we made it to the right flights and that he had to carry all the stuff and all the itinerary. He kind of liked that he wasn't responsible for all that. And he liked the food, he liked Meeting the people he liked, not having to be in a city he'd never been in and figure out exactly where we were going to eat every single meal. We had flexibility. Obviously, on these trips, we want it to be your trip.In our Sicily experience, you mentioned a couple times, like, if this doesn't feel like something you want to do, then don't do it. Do something else for the day. We can help you orchestrate other things. He really loved the idea that he didn't have to do everything. And in fact, when we did our cooking class in Sicily, which was amazing, by the way, we learned to make arancini, which they call arancino. We made a thing called a pinella, which was a chickpea pancake that they eat in a sandwich, which was kind of different. But Kurt didn't want to do the cooking class. He was like, you know what? I think I'm just gonna go walk around the city.So him and another friend peeled off and, like, that's the joy of these trips. We plan everything, but if you're tired or if you just want a day of rest, you can do that too. We really try to make it so that we know it's your experience. We're not as interested in you just being forced to come along on things that you're not interested in. We're interested in your experience. We want you to have a good time. So if Kurt Johnson can get turned on to group travel, I feel like, seriously, anyone can.Michael Kenney:No, that's. That's well said. I would have never guessed that about Kurt initially. You know, and I wouldn't call him an introvert by any means, but I think we get, you know, a lot of people like that with. With. Kurt. You know, maybe their. Their.Their husband or their wife drags them on a trip, and they're like, you know what? This is actually pretty cool, especially for the person that maybe is doing typically all the planning. And it's stressful. You know, we do all that for you, but you can really, again, sit back and enjoy. You spend a lot of money to go on these trips, and that's what we want. So we want you to feel like you. You have that. That freedom, too. When we set up our hotels in nice, central locations and safe areas, too, that you can go out and explore, so we encourage you to do that.But honestly, we feel pretty good that the pace of these trips are designed really well, that you have that flexibility, because we want you. Yes, you're in a group, even a small group, but we want to make it feel like you're having these experience with, with a friend or a family member that's with you too, that you, you feel like you're, you're having these little exploring trips, but it's all kind of put together already for you. But again, we, we have time for you to go exploring, to have these other experiences, which is really, really important. Balance is so important. Over 27 years, I think we've really, we focus on that so we know that, that people are comfortable having that free time to explore. But again, having the, the framework of an itinerary with, with experiences. Typically, we might do a city tour in the, in the morning and then have the rest of your day free to have your own exploring. Then maybe for, especially for this trip with the 31 meals that will meet up and have dinner in a place.And again, they're all being curated with our local team too, in the area that you're going to have foods local from the area in great mom PA type of restaurants. So sometimes it's stressful when you're trying to figure out where am I going to go eat, what should I do? I want to make sure the dinner is going to be great. We've got that taken care of so you can sit back and relax. And again, we know most of you probably have not heard of a lot of these places. Please, we implore you to go and take a look at the itinerary, do a little research, because I guarantee in a few years from now, these are going to be mainstream and you'll be able to go explore and see these places before they're overly busy. So take a look at this itinerary.Stephanie:I was impressed because when I first was thinking about Turkey, I went on a map and I didn't realize, like, when I started going to Croatia, I didn't realize how close Croatia is to Italy. That literally they share a sea and that a lot of Italians use Croatia as their summer vacation spot.Michael Kenney:Yeah.Stephanie:And I didn't also realize that Turkey and Italy are very close and that a lot of Europeans, because they've got EasyJet there, that's an Italian airline, they're going to Turkey like we would be going to Palm Springs. I mean, a lot of Europeans are experiencing Turkey and it's just not a destination that a lot of Americans are familiar with. But a lot of people are going there and having fun, doing fun things. This. It's been so fun for me to watch my friend Todd Walker, because he went to Cappadocia, which is a city that we're going to go to and they have all these fairy houses that are like these stone. They look like dunce caps sort of. They're these weird structures. And he, like, actually spent the night in one of them.He did a hot air balloon r there, which is part of our itinerary. If someone wants to add that on, I know Kurt's going to do that. It's like he went and he had all this video of it where there's 140 hot air balloons going up kind of all at once out of this city. It just looks so completely cool. And then the. The huge market. There's like, the world's largest market. So all of these trips, I always end up with a group of great women shoppers.And I'm like, okay, bring an extra bag, ladies, because you're going to come home with a rug and you're going to come home with all of these spices. There's 4,000 stalls in the Grand Market in Istanbul. Do you know that?Michael Kenney:Yeah, the Grand Bazaar. I didn't know exactly how many, but, yeah, it's massive.Stephanie:So just that, like, I love getting into a market and just, like, seeing all the different things, feeling all the different spices. In Sicily, we had an opportunity to go to the market, and afterwards we had our. Our local guide that kind of takes you around and shows you where everything is and gives you a sense of maybe what to look for at the market. And then we split up and Kurt and I, he just wanted to drink beer in the market and kind of experience feeling in the market. So we went and got sandwiches. But a bunch of other people, like, shop till they dropped. Like, they had huge shopping bags full of stuff. So if your jam is shopping, great.If your jam is just sitting and taking in the culture, great. Like, you can also learn more about a city by spending time with the city guides that are with us. They're always having lunch with us, and we have a bus driver that we get to know in certain trips. It really just. We just got back from Sicily and we had such a great experience. We had such a great trip. It was probably one of my favorite groups because a lot of the folks had traveled with us before, so we really knew each other, too. It's group travel is really fun.I'm just. I don't know, I'm really jazzed about it, and I'm jazzed about Turkey, and I want people to come. If you could describe Ephesus, because that's a place that I haven't been before and you have what is that like?Michael Kenney:Yeah, Ephesus, it was, you know, built by the Romans in the time of Christ, so 2,000 years ago. And it's. You're walking through. It's. It's unbelievable. It's not like when you're at the Roman Coliseum or that area around there that's actually, it feels like it's in. More in ruins, if you will. But you're like in this village, this Roman village that you can think of, the Apostles walk, maybe if you're, you know, religious.Mary, Jesus's mother, has walked. And the. Still, the stone streets are there. You know, a lot of the buildings are in ruins, but the library, the, the whole front facade is still there. It's, it's unreal. It feels like you're just being brought back in time. And there's truly nothing like Ephesus, which is just right outside of the, the village of Kusadasi, or city in Turkey. But it's, it's like the.If, again, if I could have an analogy, like you're in Rome, but to another level that it's, it's much more, I would say intact. Still in ruins, but intact. But this, this, this village that it's in hibernation. So walking these streets. And we have these local guides as you touched on too, that kind of can bring everything to, to, to life. So, you know, you're not looking through your, your book and trying to like, well, what is this? You listen to an audio guide or our, our local guide speaking about that. So you're learning about the history. But Ephesus is, is.Is unbelievable. And we're not going to see. There's other ruins and more Roman sites and throughout this trip, so you'll really get, you know, a history. I wouldn't say a deep dive. They touch on it. So you're not like, oh, this is so boring. But you even said it's, it's a trip like this is great for, for shoppers, if you want to shop. I'm not a shopper.I like to do what Kurt does. Sit down, maybe have a beer and take it all in and do nothing. Just take in the people walking around, the smells. There's. There's nothing like it. And again, I think this trip to Turkey really offers a potpourri of different experiences. So if you're a foodie, if you're into photography, to culture, to history, this trip really ticks all the boxes. And I guarantee it, you'll love it.You'll love the trip. But then even at the end you. There's a great chance you're going to make lifelong friends on, on a trip like this too. So it's, it really ticks a box of. Of of experiences. So hopefully April is a great time to go to. The temperatures you can expect, you know, low 70s, you know, 50s, 60s at night. So it's really comfortable.Not like in the summer when it's really busy and it's busier with the Europeans and the temperatures hotter. This April time is a great time to visit for sure.Stephanie:Can you talk a little bit about what the food is like? Like, I have an idea, but I don't really know. Like, is it Mediterranean? Is it like meat and pomegranates and couscous?Michael Kenney:Yep, you're nailing it right now. No, it. It is like that. So I think I encourage again people to. To look online too, to see what some of these are. But you maybe have heard of, you know, baklava or, you know, kebabs, the lamb, the beef, the chicken. They have, you know, the different kebabs, lots of different spices, ganache, as many, you know, like fried dishes too, but then a lot of cooked on open fires. But I would say, I wouldn't necessarily say it's comfort food, like German, you know, in having, you know, some of the staples that you might know, but still something that's not too odd.It's probably more closer to home than maybe some of the French food you would see. But you'll see a lot of lamb, the beef, I said some of the fried foods, lots of, you know, from your Turkish delights and different things like that. So I think even when we're walking around in the market, you'll get that. And then we'll at our dinners have different meals as well that will infuse some of these different experiences. So it won't be something completely foreign, but it'll be. It'll be comfortable enough that I think you'll enjoy it, but it definitely be a nice array of different experiences with the food.Stephanie:I haven't told you this, but one of the places, and I don't know where I'm going to do this, but I am going to find. Have you ever been to a hammam or done the spa experience where like, you lay on like hot marble and it's sort of like a sauna and you get sweaty and then you like, go into a room and they like brush you with salt and scrubby things and like completely clean you. It's a Muslim tradition and it's the most amazing thing I've ever done. I did this in Athens and I loved it so much. We went three times while we were in Athens.Michael Kenney:Wow.Stephanie:Find a spa that does this there. I don't know in what city or where we are, but I know a local guide can help me when we get there.Michael Kenney:Yep.Stephanie:Both Kurt and I, it was just the most amazing, relaxing experience. Just someone scrubbing you with all these different herbs and salts. And they have weird little brushes that your eyes are closed and. And you can't even. Like. One of them was this big, puffy, like, pillow feeling that was running across the top of your body. It was so weird, but so great.Michael Kenney:Yeah, I haven't done it. I've seen them. I've done, like, the part that we're just going in, like, in the. In the sauna or the steam bath. That's it. I haven't had the full rub down yet. Maybe on this Turkish.Stephanie:We're going to do it. Yeah, it's great. I'll do it.Michael Kenney:No, it'll be fun, but no, it's very popular over there. The Turkish amans. To do that. So there definitely will be that opportunity. I will. I'll give it a shot. You know, it'll be interesting to have someone scrub me down with salts. But, hey, life's about to have any experiences and.And I'm. And I'm. I'm for it, but I'm glad you enjoyed that. But, yes, they definitely have that. And you'll have that opportunity if you want again. It's. Yeah, it's always. It's.Stephanie:I'm not gonna make anyone go get naked and do this, but if you want to get naked and do this, I'm telling you, it's amazing. And they probably actually. They wear bathing suits because they're pretty modest. Or they'll have, like, a separate women's area and a separate men's area. When we did it in Athens, it was men and women together, and we wore bathing suits. And then when you got into the private room, you could take your bathing suit off. And they were very modest and helpful, but.Michael Kenney:Yeah. So being comfortable. Yeah, no, that's. That's great. Well, that'll be. Maybe we'll just get a whole group and do that to get so great.Stephanie:Yeah, it's just like. It was one of the best things I've ever done. And I. I like spas and massage, and I've done a lot of weird things like that. This was, like, just amazing. Well, I'm excited. I hope that people will join us. The way it works is you can find all the itinerary on defined destinations website.We'll link that in the show notes here you can see each particular day and what city you'll be in and what you'll be doing and what's included. I would imagine in most of these breakfast is included because that's typically a sort of European thing to do. And then as he's. As Michael said, a lot of the meals are included. I do think when you're breaking open a new destination, it's important to kind of give people a sense of what they're going to be experiencing. And food is obviously a big part of that. And food is a big part of my journey on this trip. Turkish delights, if you've never had them, they're like this beautiful little jelly.Turkish coffee is very different. It's a much more intense coffee experience. So if you're a coffee drinker, you'll learn a lot. Also, olive oil is very much present in Turkey. Like again, I keep comparing it to Italy, but it is right across the water. So there's a lot of different olive oils that are used in Turkey, a lot of different spices. We're going to have fun. So the way this works is you can go online, you can put your deposit down and full payment is due I think in January for this trip.You can book your own travel if you want to, meaning get your airfare to get to where we're going to meet for the trip. Or you can use Michael's got a service that can help you book all your airfare. I personally like to control my airfare because I like to have the miles and I like to know exactly how I'm going to set things up on my itinerary. Kurt and I also like to get there like a day or two in advance just to get acclimated a little bit before the rest of you guys come. So that I'm not super jet lagged. I'm on fire by the time you arrive. And yeah, we do. There's going to be a lot of beautiful wine, I'm assuming too, because that's something that there's a great grape destination there.You don't know about Turkish wines yet, but you will. They, they exist. There's actually quite a lot of them. Yeah. And that's how it works. Michael, you've got a special offer just to get people that may be on the fence a little bit. Yeah.Michael Kenney:Well, we're excited. The trip again is April 9th through the 20th. And again, go online, take it just take a look at the website, look at some of the pictures. You'll absolutely love it. And then even all the things that we've talked about that aren't even mentioned in the itinerary, there's so many fun things. But if you're listening to this and you're new to register, you'll get $200 off per person if you register for the trip. Final payment is January 1st, so just think about that. So this would be a great.A great gift for a loved one. Hey, let's. We're going to go to Turkey. And I hear more and more people are. They want to have a travel experience rather than having tangible things about having experiences, especially with ones you love. So hopefully this trip to Turkey, if you want to try something new and have just an amazing experience about a place you maybe haven't heard too much about, I think you'll absolutely love it. So just go to defined destinations.com, like Stephanie said. She'll have the link there, too.Against April 9th through the 20th. You can register right there. If you need help with airfare, we're happy to do that. So we make it pretty easy for you on that end. So we're gonna. We're gonna have a blast with a great group of people and hopefully, you know, you'll want to join this small group of no more than 15 people.Stephanie:Is this the time that we tell people that are listening to maybe stay tuned. I mean, we do have a pretty epic October trip planned.Michael Kenney:Yeah, no, I mean, go for it. We don't have the. All the dates totally confirmed, but we're. Yeah, go ahead.Stephanie:Well, we're working on one of the trips. So I have taken people to Spain, I've taken people to Croatia, I've taken people to Cambodia, Thailand, and now Turkey. And the Croatia trip was really magical and people loved it. And I have a huge fondness for Croatia. Obviously, I've been there a lot, and there were a lot of people that wanted to go on that trip that didn't get the opportunity because it's a luxury experience. It's a luxury yacht. It's small rooms or not small rooms. It's a small ship with actually, the rooms were quite big for a boat.And so we had so many people that wanted to do that itinerary again. Michael said, hey, how about we do it again? But I'll add a couple of new things so that it's a new experience for you too, Stephanie, because there is. I've never been to Zagreb, which seems probably surprising since I've been to Croatia so many times and there's a bunch of these finger lakes. What do they call those? Is it the plastic lakes?Michael Kenney:Yeah, the Plaviche Lakes National Park. Yep.Stephanie:The national parks in Croatia are legendary. If you. I mean Mijet has one of the most beautiful national parks on it with a monastery in the middle of this lake. So we are going to be taking another small group. It'll be smallish. I think we had 28 on our last.Michael Kenney:Yeah, enough to fill the boat. And the boat only can sleep like 34. So it's a small experience on that. But yeah, I'm excited to go back to that again. That's been one of our hot sellers, our Croatia trip. So with the Zagreb and the Blevice lakes and then our seven night cruise, the Croatia trip will be great. So maybe you want to do two trips. Our beautiful Turkey trip in the spring and then come October we'll have this amazing trip to, to Croatia.So go out and have experiences and hopefully you want to join us. I think you'll find great value, great meals just. And great people that to travel with.Stephanie:And if you're listening and you want to explore Michael's other trips because he takes trips with other people, not just me. And also he just guides trips himself. Just tell him that you're a friend of Stephanie's dish so that he knows that you came from my referral. But just like, yeah, if you want to sign up for a Christmas market or you're interested in heading to the Amalfi coast, traveling with defined destinations is a really great opportunity. They do it extremely well. I have traveled a lot and so I've had some good experiences and some not so good experiences. So I know that when you travel with Michael, you're in good hands. I'm still just missing our guide Peter, who was with us on our last Sicilian trip, who turns out has been your friend for like 25 years.I just miss him. He's such a character. I loved him so much.Michael Kenney:Yeah. And that's great. Yeah. Peter's a good friend of mine for. He's our Austrian guy, but he's. He's got family in, in Italy and does some of our, our Central European trips. But again, like you said it too, it's, it's. Again, it's more than just the sights.You're building relationships even if you're not even looking for that. But it's fun to recall and all the good people you've met and the fun experiences you've had along the way. I love what I do, and hopefully it shows in our trips. It's all about having a great experience with great people, so encourage you. And you've been such a great part of the defined destinations family. Thank you, Stephanie.Stephanie:I love it.Michael Kenney:Looking forward to more.Stephanie:If I didn't, people know I would have kicked you to the curb long ago. And you even have got. You've even converted Kurt.Michael Kenney:So, I mean, yeah, that's great. So, yeah, it's about. About having fun and that's what we do. And we'd love to have you on, on any of our trips.Stephanie:Yeah. All right, you guys. So I'll put all that information that you need in the links below. We are going to Turkey and I hope you come. That's all I can say because I'm gonna probably be talking about it non stop because I'm so excited.Michael Kenney:That's great.Stephanie:I'm.Michael Kenney:I'm looking forward to it. Thanks again, Steph.Stephanie:Thanks, Michael. Okay, bye. Bye.Stephanie's Dish Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit stephaniehansen.substack.com/subscribe

Well, hello there fellow nerds. It's like you're a long lost stable boy, and we're...OK the analogy falls apart. But between the title and the scantily clad shownotes, I'm guessing you already know we're talking about Princess Bride.    If you've never seen it, though inconcievable! Perhaps you find it on your streaming services, or at a local library. It's no spoiler to say that we all had a great time watching and reveling in all of the oh-so-quotable lines in this one. Next up on tap for us is a really special episode  - no not like The Wonderyears, but we're talking music that's sci-fi and specifically dystopian. So if you want to listen ahead so you can follow along, we're talking about: Nine Inch Nails, Year Zero The Mars Volta, Deloused in the Comatorium and Muse, Simulation Theory Pull up a comfy seat, get your beverage of choice, and revel in some auditory stimulation!

Send us a textToday, we're going to begin in Hoboken, New Jersey, walk through the apprenticeship years, and then trace how partnerships, heartbreak, movies, and business instincts turned a talented singer into a blueprint many still follow.Frank Sinatra was born December 12, 1915, in Hoboken, New Jersey, to Dolly and Marty Sinatra, Sicilian immigrants. The home soundtrack mixed Italian song with the everyday music of labor, argument, and celebration. Outside the door, radio—that mid-century hearth—taught him something different: how a voice could cross a continent and still sound like it was sitting at your kitchen table.As a teenager, Frank Sinatra studied Bing Crosby the way a watchmaker studies gears. Crosby wasn't just stylish; he was quiet, and the microphone made quiet powerful. Before amplification, singers had to push air to the balcony. With amplification, you could saying exactly what you wanted and be understood.  You didn't have to shout your feelings; you could aim them.Support the showThank you for experiencing Celebrate Creativity.

An everyday story of mafia folk....a cross being gifted from Sicily to the US with large quantities of drugs hidden inside. Roger and Stacey, must seek out those who used it as a 'mule' piece and those who kill anyone who gets in its way. Stunts are provided by REMO DE ANGELIS and GLENN WILDEREnjoySupport the showIf you've enjoyed this episode then why not follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook using the following linkhttps://linktr.ee/behindthestunts

Send us a textDiscover the rich Italian culture and heritage of Carlentini, Sicily, a city with a strong sense of community and tradition. This video explores the city's history, cultural traditions, and family stories, showcasing the importance of preserving Italian heritage, particularly for those who have experienced immigration and are now part of a new community, such as in Omaha. The city's sister cities program and youth exchange initiatives underscore the importance of cultural exchange and dual citizenship, enabling individuals to connect with their roots while embracing their new home. Through stories of food, language, and tradition, we delve into the heart of Carlentini, Sicily, revealing the treasures of this Sicilian city and the significance of Italian heritage in the lives of its people. Join us on a journey to explore the beauty and charm of Carlentini, Sicily, and experience the warmth of Italian culture and tradition.Carlentini - Omaha Association USASheri shares her family's immigration story from Sicily to Omaha.The significance of food in Italian culture is emphasized.Language plays a crucial role in family identity and communication.Cultural traditions are vital for maintaining family connections.The importance of teaching children about their heritage is highlighted.Sister city relationships can strengthen cultural ties.Youth exchange programs foster understanding between cultures.Challenges exist in maintaining cultural connections across generations.The journey of dual citizenship is complex but meaningful.Community involvement is essential for cultural preservation.Turnkey. The only thing you'll lift are your spirits.Italian Marketplace LLCOnline tee shirts, hoodies and more for ItaliansDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showPurchase my book "Farmers and Nobles" here or at Amazon.

Episode 92: Joe Lovano. Joe Lovano is one of the greatest musicians of all time. A Grammy-winning saxophonist who's been on the cover of DownBeat magazine multiple times (as well as many others), a Blue Note Records legend with 25 releases, a Berklee alum, and he holds the Gary Burton Chair in Jazz Performance at Berklee College of Music, which he's had since 2001. He also happens to be my cousin and one of the biggest inspirations and mentors in my life. This was our first time ever doing something like this together. A 3-hour deep dive interview that covers (nearly) his entire career. We go into our family history, growing up in Cleveland, our Sicilian roots, his father Tony “Big T” Lovano, and how that shaped his sound and spirit. We talk about his time with Elvin Jones, Jack DeJohnette, John Scofield, Charlie Haden, Esperanza Spalding, Michael Brecker, McCoy Tyner, Paul Motian, Bill Frisell, Hank Jones, Dave Holland, Joshua Redman, Al Foster, and many more. Joe shares lessons from decades of leading bands, developing tone, mentoring young players, and living a full creative life with his wife of 50 years, Judi Silvano. Joe is one of the greatest musicians alive, a music historian, and an incredible educator and mentor. Here is my interview with one of my favorite people, Joe Lovano.The Music Settlement Scholarship Donation: https://www.themusicsettlement.org/donate?utm_source=Master+List&utm_campaign=a5cff9ca09-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_JoeLovano2025&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1bd2f9c4a7-a5cff9ca09-434756824 ‘Go with Elmo Lovano' is a weekly podcast where Elmo interviews creatives and entrepreneurs in music on HOW they push forward every day, got where they are in their careers, manage their personal lives, and share lessons learned and their most important insights. Please SUBSCRIBE / FOLLOW this podcast to catch new episodes as soon as they drop! Your likes, comments and shares are much appreciated! https://www.patreon.com/gowithelmo Become a Patreon Member to stay in the loop as we post Patreon-only exclusive content, Zoom hangs, invite only events, and discussions about music and music careers. Listen to the audio form of this podcast wherever you get your podcasts: https://elmolovano.komi.io/ Follow Joe: https://www.instagram.com/joelovanojazz/ Follow Go With Elmo: https://www.instagram.com/gowithelmo/ https://www.tiktok.com/@gowithelmo https://x.com/gowithelmopod Follow Elmo Lovano: https://Instagram.com/elmolovano https://x.com/elmolovano Follow Jammcard: https://www.youtube.com/@jammcard jammcard.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joey Vitale joins the program talking all things Blues hockey following another tough loss last night. Joey talks logistics with the team and the upcoming road stretch. Joey's Halloween plans. Joey talks about the performance of the team over this tough stretch. Somehow Joey makes an analogy for the Blues and churning butter. Does Doug like butter on things? Then we get into Abraham Lincoln. Joey is still bullish on the Blue Note. Naturally, we finish off with some Sicilian geography. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

(00:00) - Joey Vitale joins the program talking all things Blues hockey following another tough loss last night. Joey talks logistics with the team and the upcoming road stretch. Joey's Halloween plans. Joey talks about the performance of the team over this tough stretch. Somehow Joey makes an analogy for the Blues and churning butter. Does Doug like butter on things? Then we get into Abraham Lincoln. Joey is still bullish on the Blue Note. Naturally, we finish off with some Sicilian geography. (30:30) - Major news as Design Aire announces a major prize for the Design Aire Heating & Cooling E-Mail of the Day for the month of November. I mean massive prize, this is unprecedented. We workshop some new EMOTD ideas. (41:00) - Gabe DeArmond joins us to talk about Missouri and the world of College Football. Gabe talks about the possibility of Eli Drinkwitz being hired by a different school. How much money would he garner? Diving deep into this possibility. Which school would be most likely? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I happen to be in Sicily with a group of Patrons (this could be you if you join Patreon!).    While I was in Verona at Wine2Wine, in 2019, I had the honor to speak with Alessio Planeta, President at Assovini Sicilia and Owner at Planeta Winery     For five centuries and through seventeen generations, Planeta has been active in changing and improving agriculture in Sicily. Alessio Planeta has spent his life dedicated to the study of Sicily and figuring out how to make it a significant force in world wine. With his family, Alessio now has six wineries around Sicily, and they have almost single-handedly put Sicily on the map as a quality player.   Planeta continues its mission to show what Sicily can do and what it's forgotten varietals can bring to the world of wine. They are one of the big reasons we have access to excellent Sicilian wine today.     Full show notes and all back episodes are on Patreon. Become a member today! www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople _______________________________________________________________   Check out my exclusive sponsor, Wine Access.  They have an amazing selection -- once you get hooked on their wines, they will be your go-to! Make sure you join the Wine Access-Wine For Normal People wine club for wines I select delivered to you four times a year!    To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth or get a class gift certificate for the wine lover in your life go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes    

TEXAS! Tom will be in Amarillo at the Amarillo Civic Center Complex on November 1st, then November 2nd in Lubbock at Buddy Holly Hall and El Paso at the Abraham Chavez Theatre on November 6th. Go get your tickets now at https://tomsegura.com/tour. SPONSORS: - Head to https://DRINKAG1.com/BEARS to get a FREE Welcome Kit, including a bottle of Vitamin D and free AG1 Travel Packs, when you first subscribe! - Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/BEARS. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. - Sponsored by BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://betterhelp.com/bears - Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at https://shopify.com/bears. This week on 2 Bears, 1 Cave, Bort sits down with comedy legend Sebastian Maniscalco for one of the funniest, most honest conversations yet. They dive deep into Sebastian's new stand-up special filmed at the United Center, what it takes to stay passionate about comedy, and how fatherhood changes everything. From crying at movies and parenting philosophies to the “arrogance of boring” and buying boats, this episode is packed with heart, humor, and classic Bert chaos. The two swap stories about old-school comedy days, meeting Jerry Seinfeld and Robert De Niro, and the truth about balancing fame, family, and fun. Tim will return next week...promise. 2 Bears, 1 Cave Ep. 311 https://tomsegura.com/tour https://www.bertbertbert.com/tour https://store.ymhstudios.com Chapters 00:00:00 - Intro 00:02:30 - Stand-Up, Sicilians, & Sensitivity 00:14:16 - Dressed To Impress 00:22:27 - Small Talk & Small Comedians 00:34:28 - Playing The Hits 00:39:30 - DeNiro & Casinos 00:46:20 - Wine, Wants, & Life Experiences 00:56:35 - Fun Dad & Discipline Dad 01:03:05 - Pete Correale 01:07:32 - Does Sebastian Do This? 01:16:06 - Married To An Artist 01:19:08 - Edit This Out! + Wrap Up Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Seekest thou the. . . PODCAST that discusses the Road in our review of Agatha All Along for Spooky Season! We are back in the MCU and get super witchy, gathering our coven, and running away from the Salem Seven and possible Aubrey Plaza, who seems a little too eager to kill everyone. We discuss the BIG questions: why no shoes, who is Teen, and what is the gut secretion of a social insect? This week Erin ponders child sacrifice, Brennan thinks a Sicilian dialect might be Polish (he was VERY wrong), and we both agree this miniseries is freakin' awesome! 

Lionel addresses the cancellation of the 81st annual New York City parade and then Lionel delves into heritage, immigration, and the American melting pot. Lionel and callers share powerful, nostalgic stories about their foreign-born grandparents (Sicilian, Greek, Azorean) who came to America—often through Ellis Island—with nothing, faced severe hardship (including quarantine, KKK threats, and the "black hand"), but persevered through hard work and bravery. The conversation highlights the resilient spirit of grandmothers (nonnas), the complexities of Italian and Portuguese dialects, and the love of "peasant food" like polenta and baklava. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1450 VIRGIL READING THE AENEID

Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1500 AENEID

Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1583 LIVY

Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 2593 ROMAN WOMEN

CBS EYE ON THE WORLD WITH JOHN BATCHELOR THE SHOW BEGINS IN THE DOUBTS ABOUT THE HAMAS DEAL... BARCELONA 1899 10-9-25 FIRST HOUR 9-915 The Genesis of Hamas, the Failure of "Land for Peace," and Theological Jihad Cliff May discussed the failure of the "land for peace" policy following Israel's 2005 withdrawal from Gaza and the violent takeover by Hamas. Hamas, representing the Muslim Brotherhood and born from theological jihad, views its mission as the destruction of Israel to establish an emirate. May emphasized that any cessation of hostilities is merely a hudna (truce), used by Hamas to rebuild for future battles, not a lasting peace. 915-930 Javier Milei's Dilemma: Midterms, the Wobbling Peso, and the Push for Dollarization Mary Anastasia O'Grady analyzed Argentinian President Javier Milei's economic and political dilemma as he faces midterms with a wobbling peso leading up to the October 26th elections. The peso is suffering due to fears that the opposition Peronist coalition will block Milei's reforms. O'Grady advocated for dollarization as the solution to stabilize the currency, reduce interest rates, and impose fiscal discipline on reckless spending. Powerful financial special interests prefer the status quo of an unanchored peso. 930-945 The Valdai Conference, Russia's Global South Strategy, and Warnings to the West Anatol Lieven discussed the Valdai conference in Sochi, where President Putin projected confidence but issued stark warnings against the US providing Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine and Europeans committing "piracy" by seizing Russian cargos. Attendees focused on the BRICS group and the Global South as Russia pursues alternative alliances. Russians express disappointment in Donald Trump's failure to deliver peace and worry about the war's slow progress. The conflict is fundamentally viewed by Russians as a struggle with NATO. 945-1000 The Valdai Conference, Russia's Global South Strategy, and Warnings to the West Anatol Lieven discussed the Valdai conference in Sochi, where President Putin projected confidence but issued stark warnings against the US providing Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine and Europeans committing "piracy" by seizing Russian cargos. Attendees focused on the BRICS group and the Global South as Russia pursues alternative alliances. Russians express disappointment in Donald Trump's failure to deliver peace and worry about the war's slow progress. The conflict is fundamentally viewed by Russians as a struggle with NATO. SECOND HOUR 10-1015   US Military Posturing, Venezuela's Cartel de Los Soles, and Instability in the Americas Professor Evan Ellis analyzed President Trump's escalating military posturing and actions against drug cartels, particularly impacting the Venezuelan regime of Nicolás Maduro and the Cartel de Los Soles. Senate members raised constitutional concerns over the use of military force. Ellis also examined political resistance to Argentinian President Javier Milei's austerity measures amid broader instability in the Americas, and noted positive strategic movements toward improved relationships with Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum and Brazil's Lula da Silva. 1015-1030 US Military Posturing, Venezuela's Cartel de Los Soles, and Instability in the Americas Professor Evan Ellis analyzed President Trump's escalating military posturing and actions against drug cartels, particularly impacting the Venezuelan regime of Nicolás Maduro and the Cartel de Los Soles. Senate members raised constitutional concerns over the use of military force. Ellis also examined political resistance to Argentinian President Javier Milei's austerity measures amid broader instability in the Americas, and noted positive strategic movements toward improved relationships with Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum and Brazil's Lula da Silva. 1030-1045 US Military Posturing, Venezuela's Cartel de Los Soles, and Instability in the Americas Professor Evan Ellis analyzed President Trump's escalating military posturing and actions against drug cartels, particularly impacting the Venezuelan regime of Nicolás Maduro and the Cartel de Los Soles. Senate members raised constitutional concerns over the use of military force. Ellis also examined political resistance to Argentinian President Javier Milei's austerity measures amid broader instability in the Americas, and noted positive strategic movements toward improved relationships with Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum and Brazil's Lula da Silva. 1045-1100 US Military Posturing, Venezuela's Cartel de Los Soles, and Instability in the Americas Professor Evan Ellis analyzed President Trump's escalating military posturing and actions against drug cartels, particularly impacting the Venezuelan regime of Nicolás Maduro and the Cartel de Los Soles. Senate members raised constitutional concerns over the use of military force. Ellis also examined political resistance to Argentinian President Javier Milei's austerity measures amid broader instability in the Americas, and noted positive strategic movements toward improved relationships with Mexico's Claudia Sheinbaum and Brazil's Lula da Silva. THIRD HOUR 1100-1115 Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1115-1130 Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1130-1145 Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. 1145-1200 Marcus Tullius Cicero's Rise, Corruption Trials, and the Catiline Conspiracy Professor Josiah Osgood profiled the Roman "new man" orator Marcus Tullius Cicero and his dramatic rise through corruption trials and political intrigue. Cicero established his career by solving the murder case of Roscius and prosecuting corrupt Sicilian governor Verres for theft. His career climaxed with the suppression of the Catiline Conspiracy, elevating him as a patriot. However, Cicero made a grave political error by executing conspirators without trial, a move opposed by Julius Caesar. FOURTH HOUR 12-1215 Fiscal Irresponsibility, the Cost of Debt, and the Loss of Welfare Reform Lessons Veronique De Rugy of the Mercatus Center criticized Washington's fiscal irresponsibility and the mounting cost of debt, arguing that enormous deficits create an anti-growth drag on the economy. She noted that failing to cut spending is a future tax hike. De Rugy lamented the loss of lessons from the 1996 welfare reform, which showed that work requirements reduced poverty, as politicians now prioritize spending checks over fiscal prudence.D 1215-1230 Deepseek's AI Claims, Huawei's Chip Ambitions, and US/China Tech Competition Chris Riegel analyzed the escalating tech competition between the US and China, focusing on Chinese AI firm Deepseek and noting its claims of superiority were potentially misleading due to non-transparency and reliance on Nvidia technology. He discussed Huawei's chip fabrication efforts and ambitions, concluding that US sanctions, particularly restricting ASML tools, keep China one to one and a half generations behind. The US scale advantage, exemplified by investments like Colossus, remains significant in the AI competition. 1230-1245 The Artemis Program, the New Space Race with China, and the Role of Elon Musk Mark Whittington discussed the Artemis program and the new space race with China, emphasizing that the US is driven back to the moon by competition with the People's Republic of China. The moon is viewed as a source for mining and a refueling stepping stone to Mars, with Elon Musk's SpaceX playing a central role. Co-host David Livingston questioned the engineering challenge of SpaceX's Starship and life support systems for Mars. The program's sustainability depends on phasing out the costly, expendable Space Launch System (SLS). 1245-100 AM The Artemis Program, the New Space Race with China, and the Role of Elon Musk Mark Whittington discussed the Artemis program and the new space race with China, emphasizing that the US is driven back to the moon by competition with the People's Republic of China. The moon is viewed as a source for mining and a refueling stepping stone to Mars, with Elon Musk's SpaceX playing a central role. Co-host David Livingston questioned the engineering challenge of SpaceX's Starship and life support systems for Mars. The program's sustainability depends on phasing out the costly, expendable Space Launch System (SLS).

The Sicilian Expedition stands as one of history's most infamous military disasters—a bold gamble that crippled Athenian power and ultimately sealed their fate in the Peloponnesian War. But what drove Athens to stake everything on this distant campaign?When Segesta, a small Sicilian city, came seeking help against their rivals, Athens faced a pivotal choice. Though initially cautious, requesting proof of Segesta's resources and sending scouts to assess the situation, the Athenian assembly's deliberations quickly spiraled beyond simple alliance politics. The real drama unfolded in the clash between two visions of Athens' future: Nicias, the cautious veteran, warning against imperial overreach, and Alcibiades, the brilliant young aristocrat, painting visions of easy conquest and unlimited wealth.What makes this moment so compelling is how Nicias' attempt to discourage the expedition by demanding excessive resources spectacularly backfired. Rather than deterring the assembly, his warnings only inflamed their ambition. The expedition ballooned from 60 ships to an unprecedented armada of 130 triremes and 5,000 hoplites—transforming a limited intervention into an all-or-nothing gamble on conquest.Thucydides frames this decision as inevitable tragedy, the product of Athens' unchecked imperial appetite. Yet other ancient writers suggest the expedition wasn't doomed from inception—its failure stemmed from divided leadership, political sabotage, and cruel twists of fortune. This tension between deterministic failure and contingent possibility makes the Sicilian debate a perfect case study in how democracies make catastrophic military decisions despite warning signs.The expedition's planning reveals deeper truths about Athenian society: their confidence after dominating the Aegean, their hunger for new conquests after the brutal subjugation of Melos, and the factional politics that would soon tear apart their command structure when religious scandals erupted on the eve of departure.Listen as we explore this pivotal moment when Athens reached beyond its grasp—a decision still studied by military strategists today for its timeless lessons about ambition, overextension, and the dangers of democratic war-making. Support the show

Do you travel for food? Sicily is one of the best places for an Italian foodie adventure especially if you're a sweet tooth. Most of us know cannoli but what other sweet treats can you find in Sicily? Find out what to taste and where to find the most delicious Sicilian sweets when you're traveling around the island.Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/289NEW! - the Untold Italy app - 12 regions now available - DOWNLOAD FOR iOS  •  DOWNLOAD FOR ANDROIDThe app is FREE to download and check out our Milan guide and general travel content. Upgrade to PREMIUM  for a one time fee to access Rome, Florence, Venice, Sorrento, Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, Capri, Ischia, Tuscany, Lake Como, Lake Garda, Veneto, Lombardy, Campania, Lazio, Puglia, Abruzzo, Calabria, Umbria, Molise with much more to comeSupport the showSubscribe to our mailing list and get our FREE Italy trip planning toolkit - subscribe hereNeed help with your trip? Check out our Trip Planning ServicesJoin us on tour. Browse our Trip scheduleFollowSubstackInstagram • Facebook • YouTube Editorial InformationThe Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke