Podcasts about Diner Dash

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on The Sims. We talk about a dark spiral, read some poetry, the problem of having enough time, and other topics. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: A few more hours Issues covered: alien life, Windows snippet tool vs print screen, not saving, random seeds, introducing a chaos event, theorizing about end games for careers, Tim's persistent chip bag, forums and forever games, games you can play daily, free-to-play mobile games, appointment-based gaming, min/maxing psychology, selling the kids' doll house for food, Dianne being negative, "I'm too depressed to even look at myself," lack of weekends, two Sims having a day off, a podcast first, multiple burners, having to closely manage Bob's fun, the Sims for therapy, externalizing developer feelings of 21st century life, using the room meter to understand what needs to be done, the ultimate plate-spinning game, "did you know that love could be lucrative?," falling in love to increase your net worth, 3D characters and a 2D environment, modding goals and having 3D characters, dimetric vs isometric, revisiting gender normativity, liking problematic things, listening to their audience, how you might approach things the second time around, remastering Final Fantasy VI, a party of side characters, two automated characters healing each other. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: SimCity, Dianne Feinstein, Apple ][, Farmville, Diner Dash, Bejeweled, Animal Crossing, Sims Online, Maxis, Firaxis, Ensemble Studios, Terry Pratchett, Mia Goth, Halo, Kenneth Koch, David Sedaris, Diablo, Quake, Tomb Raider, Super Mario 64, Michael, EA, Wing Commander, Anita Sarkeesian, Northern Exposure, Starfighter, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia, Final Fantasy VI, BioStats, Kaeon, Unity, Final Fantasy Tactics, Cloud Strife, Apocalypse Now.  Next time: A few more hours and maybe finish with The Sims Links: Here's an audio recording of the poet Kenneth Koch reading his poem Twitch: timlongojr, Twitter/Threads/Insta: @devgameclub Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com

This week on the podcast, we sit down with the pioneering game designer Nicole Lazzaro, renowned for her work on iconic titles like The Sims, Myst, and Diner Dash. From playing Colossal Cave Adventure on shared computers to studying Psychology and Film at Stanford, and how these experiences shaped her understanding of emotions in games.  Contents: 00:00 - The Week's Retro News Stories 34:10 - Nicole Lazzaro Interview Please visit our amazing sponsors and help to support the show: Take your business to the next level today and enjoy 3 months of Shopify for £1/month: https://shopify.co.uk/retrohour Bitmap Books https://www.bitmapbooks.com/ We need your help to ensure the future of the podcast, if you'd like to help us with running costs, equipment and hosting, please consider supporting us on Patreon: https://theretrohour.com/support/ https://www.patreon.com/retrohour Get your Retro Hour merchandise: https://bit.ly/33OWBKd Join our Discord channel: https://discord.gg/GQw8qp8 Website: http://theretrohour.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theretrohour/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/retrohouruk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/retrohouruk/ Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theretrohour Show notes Incredible new N64 recomp tool: https://tinyurl.com/49s9sxsw Ron Gilbert is creating a new Zelda-type game: https://tinyurl.com/yc5bkevd Dread Delusion: https://tinyurl.com/ycy33e8h Tomb Raider TV show: https://tinyurl.com/4bz8274h Mario 64 on GBA: https://tinyurl.com/dv56mxnv

On What's Trending, we talk about the recent "Course des Garçons de Café" or the café waiters race held in Paris during the weekend. And we also discuss about the new law for those who are planning to climb Everest.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Malachi and Nick talk with Meriscan, a long-time member of the Star of Providence community. What has kept Meriscan playing for so long? How was it participating in racing events? And how did he become a beta tester?Also discussed: Coco's recovery, Diner Dash, invasive frost and pour over drip-bag coffee.Meriscan's Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MeriscanThe Co-Optional Podcast Meriscan references: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Umwz6Fxnnk&t=840sNick & Meriscan's awesome race from Monorail 2: https://youtu.be/MFFBcnO2wDI?si=fdKF3AZl9x67WL9BQuestions? Comments? Join our Discord server and let us know!discord.com/invite/gyY5ystZPGGarowslaw's Music is Available on Bandcamp: https://arcofdream.bandcamp.com/Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you like good pizza? What about great pizza though? In a game that combines the adorable nature of Ooblets and the restauranteering of Diner Dash, you get to truly immerse yourself in a world where the only thing that matters...is pizza.Support the show

BEHIND! We've got hot pots full of EXCELLENT restaurant management co-op games. YES, CHEF! 

Codey and Bev talk about Research Story Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:23: What Have We Been Up To 00:14:40: News 00:26:11: Research Story 01:18:02: Outro Links Disney Dreamlight Valley Pride of the Valley Update Mika and the Witch’s Mountain Trailer Coral Island Summer Update Rune Factory 3S US Special Edition Research Story on Steam Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript [00:00.000 –> 00:30.000] music [00:30.000 –> 00:35.000] Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. [00:35.000 –> 00:40.000] My name is Cody and my name is Bev and we’re here today to talk about cottage core [00:40.000 –> 00:44.000] games. [00:44.000 –> 00:49.000] What so so we we say hello farmers because it used to be only a [00:49.000 –> 00:54.000] farming podcast but now we’re like rebranding. So what do we say like hello cottage core [00:54.000 –> 00:59.000] workers. This is a question. That’s a great question. [00:59.000 –> 01:04.000] Listeners right in. Join the slack and tell us what we should call you. [01:04.000 –> 01:09.000] Listeners maybe. Hello listeners. Hello. [01:09.000 –> 01:14.000] We’ll workshop it. Yeah sure. Definitely [01:14.000 –> 01:19.000] tweet at us please. So there is a quote here. [01:19.000 –> 01:24.000] I don’t know how you wanted me to say this. But for [01:24.000 –> 01:29.000] folks that would like transcripts transcripts are available in the show notes and [01:29.000 –> 01:34.000] on the website. So any transcripts for I’m assuming any [01:34.000 –> 01:39.000] episode at least this episode will be available there. [01:39.000 –> 01:44.000] So if you mention anything or if I say something weird and you’re like what was that word. [01:45.000 –> 01:50.000] You can look it up. So today we are here to talk [01:50.000 –> 01:55.000] about our main topic which is a research story. So this is part two technically. [01:56.000 –> 02:01.000] The first episode which you can find in our on our feed was Bev and I talking about our [02:01.000 –> 02:06.000] experiences in research. And they said that you had a they had a very cool [02:06.000 –> 02:11.000] monkey poop thing. Yes. So if you’re [02:11.000 –> 02:16.000] yeah if you’re like not not sure what what monkey poop what go back [02:16.000 –> 02:21.000] and listen to that right. Please. And we do have some news. [02:21.000 –> 02:26.000] But before we get to that Bev what have you been up to. [02:26.000 –> 02:31.000] I have been struggling just in general. [02:31.000 –> 02:36.000] But I at least like what I’ve been playing. I’ve been on a weird [02:36.000 –> 02:41.000] solitaire kick lately. Like I was at a conference last week and that’s what got [02:41.000 –> 02:46.000] me through the conference was just playing solitaire while I was listening. Do you have [02:46.000 –> 02:51.000] like a specific like with with cards or do you have a specific. There’s like an app. [02:51.000 –> 02:56.000] I think it’s like a game pass app or whatever. I don’t know. [02:56.000 –> 03:01.000] I have it for Xbox and I download it on the phone because I was like I wanted something that I could play [03:01.000 –> 03:06.000] Spider solitaire on and also bring my solitaire and free [03:06.000 –> 03:11.000] sell and everything but not have to download like five different apps for it. So yeah. [03:11.000 –> 03:16.000] I know exactly what you’re talking about actually. The second thing you said Xbox I was [03:16.000 –> 03:21.000] like oh I used to do that all the time. So I used to have a Microsoft service [03:21.000 –> 03:26.000] and which is a laptop for those for those that didn’t know [03:26.000 –> 03:31.000] that was like the Microsoft laptop. And it came with the [03:31.000 –> 03:36.000] the games and quote unquote one of the quote unquote games was solid was that solitaire pack. And [03:36.000 –> 03:41.000] they have dailies like you can do them every day. Yes I’ve been doing the dailies. [03:41.000 –> 03:46.000] I loved it. Oh OK. [03:46.000 –> 03:51.000] So you’ve been solid. Which one’s your favorite. I feel like freestyle is my favorite. OK [03:51.000 –> 03:56.000] I didn’t really like freestyle. What’s the one with the polar bear the Klondike one. There’s like there’s the polar [03:56.000 –> 04:01.000] that’s like that’s like regular solitaire. They call it Klondike and I don’t know why Klondike [04:01.000 –> 04:06.000] right right right. No there was another one the pyramid one maybe. Oh the pyramid one. [04:06.000 –> 04:11.000] Is that like the one we have to do like the math and like add it up to like 13. [04:11.000 –> 04:16.000] Yeah. I also like that one. Like I never heard of that one before until I played [04:16.000 –> 04:21.000] this game. Like this is so fun. Yeah. Yeah. [04:21.000 –> 04:26.000] Well what else other than solid. [04:26.000 –> 04:31.000] I feel like that’s that’s been mostly like other than the research story I’ve been on like [04:31.000 –> 04:36.000] right. Like I was doing stardew and then I went on the conference and then I couldn’t really [04:36.000 –> 04:41.000] play it and then got obsessed with solitaire. So like I moved from my stardew like obsession [04:41.000 –> 04:46.000] to solitaire and I’ll probably go back to start. I feel like we’ll see. It’s that time of year. [04:46.000 –> 04:51.000] Like I feel like this time of year when things start changing and like you get that springy feel to the to the [04:51.000 –> 04:56.000] air. Everyone’s playing stardew right now. Like all of my friends are like I’ve just been really enjoying [04:56.000 –> 05:01.000] stardew. I need to replay it because I have never made it past. I’ve never [05:01.000 –> 05:06.000] made it through the second year. Yeah. Yeah. That was why I picked it up again because [05:06.000 –> 05:11.000] I was like I need to do this. And then I made it past second year and now I’m like finally 1.5 [05:11.000 –> 05:16.000] content. So do it and maybe we can talk about it because we haven’t really talked about [05:16.000 –> 05:21.000] the 1.5 update. So do it. That’s true. Is the 1.5 update free? [05:21.000 –> 05:26.000] Yes. It’s free. I think it’s on all platforms by this point. Like even on mobile. I [05:26.000 –> 05:31.000] have it on steam or not steam switch. So do it. [05:31.000 –> 05:36.000] I have been playing research life. [05:36.000 –> 05:41.000] IRL research story. [05:41.000 –> 05:46.000] IRL research. I’ve been planning a new field season and this one is going to be different [05:46.000 –> 05:51.000] than what I’ve done before. And so I need to actually construct some traps. So I’ve purchased a [05:51.000 –> 05:56.000] bunch of acrylic and then I have to go like buy. I have to go like buy [05:56.000 –> 06:01.000] these buckets. I basically played go get my [06:01.000 –> 06:06.000] PI’s credit card and go spend money. [06:06.000 –> 06:11.000] But it’s my research money. But like it’s through someone else’s [06:11.000 –> 06:16.000] card. But it was really fun to like quote unquote fun to go to like Home Depot. Just drop down [06:16.000 –> 06:21.000] for shopping. Home Depot is a lot of fun. It can be a lot of fun. [06:21.000 –> 06:26.000] It was also really fun because I brought Stella because you can bring dogs. [06:27.000 –> 06:32.000] And she did so good. Oh that’s that’s even more fun. Like I [06:32.000 –> 06:37.000] feel like Home Depot’s like should have more dogs because it’s like no one cares. So [06:37.000 –> 06:42.000] we want more dogs at Home Depot or like Lowe’s. That day I took her to let’s see we went to [06:42.000 –> 06:47.000] Petco obviously can bring pets in their Michaels. You can bring pet dogs [06:47.000 –> 06:52.000] into Michaels and Joanne’s. That sounds like a disaster. [06:52.000 –> 06:57.000] Well and it was so funny because she loves to pick trash up off the floor. So every time she [06:57.000 –> 07:02.000] picked something up like and like people I mean things fall off of things [07:02.000 –> 07:07.000] at craft stores all the time. Oh yeah. If you buy like a floral like a fake floral display [07:07.000 –> 07:12.000] like these fake flowers fell off and they were just on the ground and she just kept picking trash up [07:12.000 –> 07:17.000] and I kept taking it from her. So by the time I got up to the register I was just like here’s all this trash. [07:19.000 –> 07:24.000] But she also picked up this this DMC claw DMC floss [07:24.000 –> 07:29.000] like floss that you’d use for like cross stitching or whatever. And I do that. And so I was [07:29.000 –> 07:34.000] like I’ll just buy this. And they were like are you sure you don’t have to. And I was like she picked it up. I was I’ll just [07:34.000 –> 07:39.000] buy it’s fine. She slobbered all over this like this poor floss. Yeah like her saliva [07:39.000 –> 07:44.000] is on this. I’ll just buy it. And then I took it home and I actually looked at it. [07:44.000 –> 07:49.000] It’s actually a color of used a lot. So I was like OK good good. I’m glad like you can never [07:49.000 –> 07:54.000] have too much floss. I feel like she was just looking at. Yeah. Yeah. And like you know sometimes you have to [07:54.000 –> 07:59.000] use a little bit of saliva to like make it work anyway. She just is helping you [07:59.000 –> 08:04.000] preemptively. That’s true. That’s true. You have to like kind of get it get it together because you pull [08:04.000 –> 08:09.000] strands together. Mm hmm. Other than that my partner [08:09.000 –> 08:14.000] came here for the weekend and he brought overcooked to [08:14.000 –> 08:19.000] this game on steam. And I’m obsessed. [08:19.000 –> 08:24.000] We played it for like I say two hours. He says three hours straight. I [08:24.000 –> 08:29.000] wanted to play more. He was like I need a break. And I was like we need to keep playing. [08:30.000 –> 08:35.000] Basically did you ever play like Diner Dash. No I don’t think so. [08:35.000 –> 08:40.000] OK. It’s like that. It’s basically OK. It’s like you’re like building [08:41.000 –> 08:46.000] there’s recipes that come across the screen and then you’re supposed to build them. So like if a [08:46.000 –> 08:51.000] salad comes across the screen then you have to grab a lettuce and a tomato and chop them up [08:51.000 –> 08:56.000] and then serve them on a plate and then put them on the like outgoing thing. [08:56.000 –> 09:01.000] So it’s like an assembly game essentially. Yeah it is an assembly game. But the fun part of it [09:01.000 –> 09:06.000] quote unquote fun part about it is that you. So it’s if you’re playing by yourself [09:06.000 –> 09:11.000] you control two people like you [09:11.000 –> 09:16.000] just switch to switch between the two people. But if you have two people it puts one of you on one [09:16.000 –> 09:21.000] one side of the of the kitchen or whatever and then one on the other side. And like [09:21.000 –> 09:26.000] so I might have all of the food and then he has the cutting [09:26.000 –> 09:31.000] boards and then maybe I have the fryers and then he has the plates. And [09:31.000 –> 09:36.000] so I literally have to like throw stuff to him so he [09:36.000 –> 09:41.000] can cut it up and then he throws it back to me and like there’s a barrier in between. So like you can’t [09:41.000 –> 09:46.000] go on the barrier. You’re throwing stuff around both both directions and then [09:46.000 –> 09:51.000] like trying to serve it up. And then also at one point there’s like dirty dishes. So someone has to clean them and you’re [09:51.000 –> 09:56.000] basically trying to like do this cooperation. And if you don’t do the order [09:56.000 –> 10:01.000] fast enough you like lose your tips and you like [10:01.000 –> 10:06.000] lose points for that and stuff. And the whole point I guess is that it’s [10:06.000 –> 10:11.000] it’s got a loose story where there’s the king [10:11.000 –> 10:16.000] onion guy of the world accidentally made undead zombies [10:16.000 –> 10:21.000] and they’re called the unbred. OK I’m totally fine with zombies. [10:21.000 –> 10:26.000] I mean you never see the zombies. The thing is like that you’re trying [10:26.000 –> 10:31.000] to learn how to cook to feed them to start to [10:31.000 –> 10:36.000] stave them off so that they don’t eat the people I guess is the whole point. [10:36.000 –> 10:41.000] Makes sense. I see that. OK. So you’re just having like pet zombies essentially. [10:41.000 –> 10:46.000] You never I like you never see them. OK that’s [10:46.000 –> 10:51.000] I need I need an overcooked version where there’s more zombie interaction. Yeah. [10:51.000 –> 10:56.000] Yeah. So we played that and then we also [10:56.000 –> 11:01.000] started playing board games. So last night Jeff [11:01.000 –> 11:06.000] and I introduced my roommate to Catan. She’d never played. [11:06.000 –> 11:11.000] And we played we played one game and in the beginning of the game she was [11:11.000 –> 11:16.000] like I don’t like this. I don’t know if this is for me. And then by the end she lost by the end of the game. [11:16.000 –> 11:21.000] And she like like I won. I just like and I did the [11:21.000 –> 11:26.000] classic like build two roads take longest road and I have this like secret [11:26.000 –> 11:31.000] development card that gives me a bonus point and I won like bam. Like like I went from like three points away [11:31.000 –> 11:36.000] to winning to like bam I won. Beautiful. And she was just like she was like no [11:36.000 –> 11:41.000] and she like stood up and walked away. She’s like I hate this game and then she turns back [11:41.000 –> 11:46.000] around. She’s like we’re playing again. [11:46.000 –> 11:51.000] I love that. But I mean Jeff and I really want to play more board games. So we went to a card shop [11:51.000 –> 11:56.000] today. A couple card shops today. One game. I don’t know if you’ve seen it’s called arch ravels. [11:56.000 –> 12:01.000] Arch ravels? Why ravels or ravels? Ravels because you knit. [12:03.000 –> 12:08.000] It’s a knitting board game. Oh my goodness. [12:08.000 –> 12:13.000] I’m going to find it for you and then put it in the chat or something. I feel like I need this because it [12:13.000 –> 12:18.000] and it looked like I was like oh it’s probably really expensive. It’s only like 20 bucks. [12:18.000 –> 12:23.000] That’s amazing. Or at least like so some places have like 31. It’s [12:23.000 –> 12:28.000] somewhere between like it’s under 40 for sure. And I was I don’t know board games are expensive. So [12:28.000 –> 12:33.000] so I was like I didn’t bring my wallet and like I wasn’t going to make Jeff pay for it [12:33.000 –> 12:38.000] because he’s not a knitter. Yeah. You compete with fellow knitters to collect [12:38.000 –> 12:43.000] wool finish patterns and make a masterwork. So it looked really amazing. But we [12:43.000 –> 12:48.000] ended up getting a game called love letters which is a card game where you are trying [12:48.000 –> 12:53.000] to like woo a princess. OK. And you’re trying [12:53.000 –> 12:58.000] to like win favors to woo the princess and you just like go back and forth and you try and [12:58.000 –> 13:03.000] make sure that you have the best card. I don’t know. We haven’t played it yet. OK. We also looked [13:03.000 –> 13:08.000] at there were other like really pretty games. There was wingspan [13:08.000 –> 13:13.000] there which I really enjoyed. It’s a fun game. It’s they didn’t have parks. [13:14.000 –> 13:19.000] And I know since we’re talking about parks I just for the fiftieth time have to [13:19.000 –> 13:24.000] apologize for spilling coffee. It’s fine. It’s 100 percent fine. [13:24.000 –> 13:29.000] This is why I sleeve meticulously every single thing that can possibly [13:29.000 –> 13:34.000] sleep. Like my partner spilled water on the table and [13:34.000 –> 13:39.000] like got onto like some of our card like our open boxes that we have and I’m like it’s it’s fine. Yeah. [13:39.000 –> 13:44.000] Like everything’s either in plastic or cardboard. Like I don’t care about the box. It was like it was fine. [13:44.000 –> 13:49.000] We played. Gosh we went down. We you and I both went down to D.C. [13:49.000 –> 13:54.000] to go play like a community day like two or three years ago. I don’t remember. [13:54.000 –> 13:59.000] It’s been a hot minute. And they brought all their all their games and we play parks [13:59.000 –> 14:04.000] with some other friends and it was really fun. And then at one point I spilled coffee and I was just like [14:04.000 –> 14:09.000] I immediately was like I will buy you a new one. [14:09.000 –> 14:14.000] It feels so bad. And I’m like it’s fine. [14:14.000 –> 14:19.000] It haunts me to this day. You’re completely fine. Yeah. Oh you are just going to have to [14:19.000 –> 14:24.000] come over and accidentally spill something on one of your games. [14:24.000 –> 14:29.000] Please do. Please do. Oh yeah. I mean so that’s I don’t [14:29.000 –> 14:34.000] I mean I’ve still been playing Pokemon Go and Pikmin Bloom and stuff like that but [14:34.000 –> 14:39.000] I’ve not really been playing a ton of games but it’s cool. It’s a weird time. [14:39.000 –> 14:44.000] It is a weird time. So jumping into the news. [14:44.000 –> 14:49.000] First bit of news is that Disney Dreamlight Valley has an update launching [14:49.000 –> 14:54.000] April 5th. So very soon and update is called [14:54.000 –> 14:59.000] the Pride of the Valley update. And so it’s it adds adult Simba [14:59.000 –> 15:04.000] and adult Nala and it’s about you know like Lion King. [15:04.000 –> 15:09.000] So there’s not a ton of information about it. It just says like a new realm [15:09.000 –> 15:14.000] opens there’s new characters more surprises. They said that there’s a path to [15:14.000 –> 15:19.000] celebrate the Disney parks. Interesting. So I think it’s just going to be [15:19.000 –> 15:24.000] like a theme park thing. I don’t know. I haven’t played Disney so. I haven’t either. I love [15:24.000 –> 15:29.000] Simba and if Simba is voice acted in here by the original like [15:29.000 –> 15:34.000] Simba I think. Oh I doubt it. I doubt it. I know I highly doubt it. But just the voice actor [15:34.000 –> 15:39.000] for Simba is just like I definitely had a crush on Simba. [15:40.000 –> 15:45.000] Oh my gosh. I don’t even know if Matthew Broderick is still around. What is he doing [15:45.000 –> 15:50.000] nowadays. I don’t know. But I need to hear more of him. He’s 61. He is married to Sarah Jessica [15:50.000 –> 15:55.000] Parker. Oh that’s OK. Wow. [15:55.000 –> 16:00.000] I did not know that. He’s a good egg. He’s done a lot. So yeah [16:00.000 –> 16:05.000] that is Disney Dreamlight Valley. Pride of the Valley [16:05.000 –> 16:10.000] is like interesting because I understand why it’s called Pride of the Valley. But it made me think it was like [16:10.000 –> 16:15.000] like Pride Month something. I was like I got excited. That’s fair. [16:15.000 –> 16:20.000] That is very fair. Some people. So apparently like Pride of the Valley is [16:20.000 –> 16:25.000] something at the parks. Interesting. So they’re trying to like market. That’s smart [16:25.000 –> 16:30.000] for Disney to market their physical location I guess. [16:30.000 –> 16:35.000] I don’t know because someone said something about like one of the comments on Twitter or something was like this is my [16:35.000 –> 16:40.000] favorite part of the parks. So I don’t know. OK. I haven’t been to Disney [16:40.000 –> 16:45.000] years. I’m going to have to change that. And then now my partner hasn’t either. I’m like we [16:45.000 –> 16:50.000] need to go. We need to go. I’ve never been. But like now I’m just like it’s [16:50.000 –> 16:55.000] so freaking expensive. And I mean it probably was always expensive [16:55.000 –> 17:00.000] but like it just seems like hell to me honestly. [17:00.000 –> 17:05.000] Especially in the heat depending on where you’re [17:05.000 –> 17:10.000] going. I just came back from California so I should have like the last time I went to California I went to [17:10.000 –> 17:15.000] Disneyland for the first time. But it’s like a beautiful weather over there. I definitely would not go to the Florida one. [17:15.000 –> 17:20.000] I actually someone a previous partner invited me [17:20.000 –> 17:25.000] to go to the Florida one and he was like I’ll pay for everything. And I was [17:25.000 –> 17:30.000] like hmm but Florida. But Florida. [17:30.000 –> 17:35.000] Understand. Well as a Floridian I 100% understand. [17:35.000 –> 17:40.000] Maybe go to the California one. He does it every year though. So I don’t know. OK. [17:40.000 –> 17:45.000] Next piece of news Mika and the Witch’s Mountain. There is a new trailer. [17:46.000 –> 17:51.000] It is very cute. [17:51.000 –> 17:56.000] The trailer is very cute. There’s like music behind it. It’s a minute and a half long and you kind of [17:56.000 –> 18:01.000] just like see there’s part gameplay and part like animation [18:01.000 –> 18:06.000] of the game. And it just looks really cute. It’s just Mika [18:06.000 –> 18:11.000] like doing her business delivering stuff and you get to see a bunch of the [18:11.000 –> 18:16.000] other characters. And yeah. Did you get a chance to watch the [18:16.000 –> 18:21.000] trailer at all. No but I know I [18:21.000 –> 18:26.000] will watch it after this. But I am very excited for this game [18:26.000 –> 18:31.000] just because I love the other games in this world. I guess this universe. [18:32.000 –> 18:37.000] So looking forward to this and I’m a little behind on the Kickstarter updates [18:37.000 –> 18:42.000] but I’ll get in there. Yeah. It’s still just had the planned release date [18:42.000 –> 18:46.000] of 2023 so question mark. Yeah. [18:46.000 –> 18:51.000] Mary Little Witch and you develop to deliver packages. The flight looks really cute like the flight [18:51.000 –> 18:56.000] of this game. Oh my goodness. It seems like it’s. The Studio Ghibli. Yeah. Yeah. [18:56.000 –> 19:01.000] I’m really excited for just being a little witch doing a little delivery service. [19:01.000 –> 19:06.000] You just did a little cute witch. Yeah. It’s very cute. [19:06.000 –> 19:11.000] I know Kevin is also very excited. Likely something that would be covered on this podcast. [19:11.000 –> 19:16.000] Very likely. Yeah. I think several of us are backers [19:16.000 –> 19:21.000] at this point. So we’ll definitely at least play it at some point. Have a couple triple [19:21.000 –> 19:26.000] million harvests. Next is Coral [19:26.000 –> 19:31.000] Island. So there is a summer update for Coral Island coming out on May [19:31.000 –> 19:36.000] 3rd. No just as May 2023. So somewhere sometime in May there will be an update [19:36.000 –> 19:41.000] for the summer. And there’s a lot of things in this [19:41.000 –> 19:46.000] update. The first thing is that a lot of the characters are going to be getting summer outfits. [19:46.000 –> 19:51.000] So I am here for you. Yes. I know. I love the idea of [19:51.000 –> 19:56.000] characters like changing with the seasons. I know Animal Crossing does this where like every now and [19:56.000 –> 20:01.000] then someone has one of your characters has like a new outfit or [20:01.000 –> 20:06.000] is it only if you give them something like give them the shirt. I think they just change [20:06.000 –> 20:11.000] that. Like there there were some times where I just was like where did you get that. And then I talked to them because like [20:11.000 –> 20:16.000] they can give each other stuff as well. So you can talk to them and they might be like oh someone [20:16.000 –> 20:21.000] gave me this and so sweet. I don’t need this other shirt anymore. Go ahead and have it. [20:21.000 –> 20:26.000] You know something like that. So I also love that these like [20:26.000 –> 20:31.000] NPCs like have their own original style. So like I’m sure you can dress people essentially in Animal Crossing [20:31.000 –> 20:36.000] but these these these are like holistic characters who like what they like. And I [20:36.000 –> 20:41.000] am here for these outfits and want some of these shirts too. Yeah [20:41.000 –> 20:46.000] like give me this give me this wah banana shirt. And I want [20:46.000 –> 20:51.000] real life. It’s a banana that looks like a dolphin. [20:51.000 –> 20:56.000] Banana dolphin shirt. [20:56.000 –> 21:01.000] They can make so much money by selling these shirts. [21:01.000 –> 21:06.000] There’s also a new festival called Pet Day. The Pet Day Festival. In it there’s a couple [21:06.000 –> 21:11.000] different things. There’s a rodeo called the Wild Ride. So you ride this like bowl [21:11.000 –> 21:16.000] which is super cute. You just like push a button super super fast to try and make sure [21:16.000 –> 21:21.000] that you stay on the bowl. They have a cow competition where you [21:21.000 –> 21:26.000] try and like race your cows against other people [21:26.000 –> 21:31.000] and your cow might get distracted. You have to like pull them back to reality. There’s a chicken [21:31.000 –> 21:36.000] competition. I don’t know what this is about. When I first saw it I was like oh I don’t [21:36.000 –> 21:41.000] like chicken fighting like that doesn’t look good. But then when you’re doing like [21:41.000 –> 21:46.000] when when it shows that you’re like hitting buttons they don’t do anything. [21:46.000 –> 21:51.000] They just kind of like stare at each other which I’m here [21:51.000 –> 21:56.000] for. Yeah just chickens being chickens. [21:56.000 –> 22:01.000] There are 20. They’re talking about an animal shelter that will have 20 [22:01.000 –> 22:06.000] adoptable pets. And then they have the outline of all of the pets. They’re very cute. And there’s a little lizard [22:06.000 –> 22:11.000] and so cute. And there’s some bunnies and then many dogs and cats [22:11.000 –> 22:16.000] and one of the dogs looks like it could possibly be an Australian Shepherd. And I am [22:16.000 –> 22:21.000] here for it. Very cool. I [22:21.000 –> 22:26.000] have officially gotten it because I think I will be playing it for the podcast. Spoiler alert. [22:26.000 –> 22:31.000] So I am here for one the bathing suits [22:31.000 –> 22:36.000] and also here for the outfits and now this pet festival thing. Yeah. [22:36.000 –> 22:41.000] Oh wait maybe this is like a staring competition. Maybe. [22:41.000 –> 22:46.000] That’s what I’m wondering. That’s what it looks like. They’re glaring at each other. [22:46.000 –> 22:51.000] The little squinties. Yeah. I don’t think chickens really [22:51.000 –> 22:56.000] blink. Anyway there’s also a new customization and it shows [22:56.000 –> 23:01.000] a beard customization where you can put it put flowers in your beard. I love that. [23:01.000 –> 23:06.000] Oh my goodness. OK. And then I’m trying to scroll down to the thing that is the most important thing to me. [23:06.000 –> 23:11.000] OK. There’s also fruit plants and you can find critters. Here it is. Insect [23:11.000 –> 23:16.000] and critter traps quote as part of the catching mystery [23:16.000 –> 23:21.000] you will unlock now unlock traps used to catch insects and critters. You can place these on the [23:21.000 –> 23:26.000] ground and in the ocean. There are four traps two for insects and two for critters. Here’s a look at the tracks in [23:26.000 –> 23:31.000] action and it shows you catch an insect and then it’s a cute [23:31.000 –> 23:36.000] little caterpillar. Oh. So [23:36.000 –> 23:41.000] I’m here for that. Yeah. This is like everything about this game is [23:41.000 –> 23:46.000] beautiful. OK. I’m really excited about this. [23:46.000 –> 23:51.000] It’s like I believe it’s still in early access. Is out now. Early access is out now. Yeah. [23:51.000 –> 23:56.000] Oh wow. It’s from Indonesia. I did not know. Yeah. I bought it with the intention of [23:56.000 –> 24:01.000] playing it but I had to put more time into our main topic for today. [24:01.000 –> 24:06.000] So I haven’t touched it yet. Yeah. Yeah. So that is that. [24:06.000 –> 24:11.000] And then the last bit of news is about Rune Factory 3 Special [24:11.000 –> 24:16.000] Golden Memories Edition. So this is an edition [24:16.000 –> 24:21.000] of Rune Factory 3 Special that has a custom box [24:21.000 –> 24:26.000] on the outside custom outer box. I don’t really know what that means and a copy of the game. [24:26.000 –> 24:31.000] But you also get an acrylic standee of a bunch of the characters. [24:31.000 –> 24:36.000] The original soundtrack CD. A custom planner. [24:36.000 –> 24:41.000] Excuse me. I know. That sounds awesome. I kind of want this [24:41.000 –> 24:46.000] just so I could have all the goodies. Really. They look so cute. Yeah. Like the CD is [24:46.000 –> 24:51.000] as true. Beautiful. It really is. Yeah. Maybe this will be [24:51.000 –> 24:56.000] what makes me want to play Rune Factory 3 Special. [24:57.000 –> 25:02.000] It’s all you, Min. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh. [25:02.000 –> 25:07.000] There’s also an exclusive swimsuit mode DLC. Sure. [25:07.000 –> 25:12.000] Okay. Sure. Interesting. Yeah. So that [25:12.000 –> 25:17.000] they have announced it and preorders for that will open soon. [25:17.000 –> 25:22.000] TM. And there’s apparently if you [25:22.000 –> 25:27.000] preorder on the XSEED store you can add a golden wooly keychain for [25:27.000 –> 25:32.000] $5 more. And I wouldn’t say it looks cute but it looks [25:32.000 –> 25:37.000] it still looks like something I would want. Maybe. [25:37.000 –> 25:42.000] I don’t know. Yeah. Looks a little like. Oh the wooly is ridiculous. [25:42.000 –> 25:47.000] Right? Yeah. Like it’s not cute but it’s like ridiculous and I love it just for it being ridiculous. [25:47.000 –> 25:52.000] Yeah. Very cute. I mean it’s weird. [25:52.000 –> 25:57.000] Uh huh. Uh huh. Exactly. There’s like a blank stare to its face. [25:57.000 –> 26:02.000] Yeah. Okay. I don’t play Rune Factory. [26:02.000 –> 26:07.000] So yeah. That is the news. [26:07.000 –> 26:12.000] So. [26:13.000 –> 26:18.000] Moving on to our main topic. Uh huh. [26:18.000 –> 26:23.000] I’m laughing because I am I am shame. [26:23.000 –> 26:28.000] I have played three minutes [26:28.000 –> 26:33.000] of this game. And I feel so bad but I just have [26:33.000 –> 26:38.000] it’s been a it’s been a heck of a time. It’s been a month. Mentally, [26:38.000 –> 26:43.000] emotionally, physically. It’s been a year. Literally. I don’t know. [26:43.000 –> 26:48.000] So I mean I have thoughts about the game. Like I’ve looked at it. [26:48.000 –> 26:53.000] I’ve I’ve played three. So but I figured [26:53.000 –> 26:58.000] I would just kind of like go over like kind of read what has been said about the game. [26:58.000 –> 27:03.000] Like what they have said on their steam. [27:03.000 –> 27:08.000] And then also just kind of like interview you because you play more than three minutes. [27:08.000 –> 27:13.000] I just how my playtime and it’s a very cursed number. [27:13.000 –> 27:18.000] Sixty six hours. Nice. [27:18.000 –> 27:23.000] You can’t play anymore. I can’t. I have to put it down right here. [27:23.000 –> 27:28.000] Yeah. Right here. Okay. So just to remind people this [27:28.000 –> 27:33.000] is what the bio of research story on steam quote set out to [27:33.000 –> 27:38.000] discover and record plants and creatures for the Violet archive. Grow crops, [27:38.000 –> 27:43.000] tame animals and build the perfect farm. Forge friendships along the way as you begin your life as a [27:43.000 –> 27:48.000] researcher. Unquote. So yeah you’re kind of like you’re like a [27:48.000 –> 27:53.000] scientist in this area which is why both of us were like blessed. [27:54.000 –> 27:59.000] Yes. And it is important to note that this game still [27:59.000 –> 28:04.000] is in early access. They would they said that they would like it to be in early access [28:04.000 –> 28:09.000] for somewhere between six to six months to a year max. [28:09.000 –> 28:14.000] So it’s I mean it just came out [28:14.000 –> 28:19.000] of early acts like to like to buy and to play like a couple weeks ago. [28:19.000 –> 28:24.000] Maybe a month ago. Yeah. So and they said that when it [28:24.000 –> 28:29.000] goes from early access to a full game like the price will go up. So if you are [28:29.000 –> 28:34.000] interested in this or you know. Yeah. Get it now because you will get it for less [28:34.000 –> 28:39.000] expensive. Yes. So I will read a little bit more of [28:39.000 –> 28:44.000] the additional content and features that they plan to include in the full version. They [28:44.000 –> 28:49.000] said that they want to have more creatures fish and crops and to expand on the [28:49.000 –> 28:54.000] researching mechanics. They’re going to have more NPCs more romance [28:54.000 –> 28:59.000] bowls which I’m assuming means romance like options more heart [28:59.000 –> 29:04.000] events and they want to have like a marriage system. So think of like Stardew Valley. Yeah. [29:04.000 –> 29:09.000] Additional features such as festivals more content for [29:09.000 –> 29:14.000] decoration and building and then very importantly controller support. [29:14.000 –> 29:19.000] So currently does not have controller support which has been interesting since I’ve been playing it on [29:19.000 –> 29:24.000] Steam Deck. So it’s it’s been a good way to actually [29:24.000 –> 29:29.000] test run I think non controller games on the Steam Deck and it’s [29:29.000 –> 29:34.000] actually not that bad. Like I can right click or left click with the right trigger [29:34.000 –> 29:39.000] and like right click with the left trigger. So it’s been actually pretty nice and I almost kind [29:39.000 –> 29:44.000] of even still prefer it even though it doesn’t really have this controller support on the [29:44.000 –> 29:49.000] Steam Deck itself. So that’s that’s my review for the Steam Deck. It’s it’s still playable. [29:49.000 –> 29:54.000] That’s good. Yeah. I was going to say I had it just on Steam because it is [29:54.000 –> 29:59.000] only on Steam. I think that’s my big downfall is that [30:00.000 –> 30:05.000] the computer in this room. So my other computers and Mac and most games are only available on [30:05.000 –> 30:10.000] Windows. And so and if I come and play a game in this room I have to like put both my [30:10.000 –> 30:15.000] dogs away and like just kind of not just like a sit down and play a [30:15.000 –> 30:20.000] game and have fun like it’s kind of its own thing. So [30:20.000 –> 30:25.000] but I digress like if it was on Switch like if [30:25.000 –> 30:30.000] they had it on Switch I probably would have played it because I can play that on my couch. [30:30.000 –> 30:35.000] Yeah. So before we jump into like what the early access version has [30:35.000 –> 30:40.000] specifically and then I kind of like ask you about these different aspects. [30:40.000 –> 30:45.000] What are your first impressions? Like what do you think of the graphics and the sound and the [30:45.000 –> 30:50.000] like the overall gameplay? I will say first impressions are overall good. [30:50.000 –> 30:55.000] I feel like it’s it’s a very cute game. Like it has like it has more of a [30:55.000 –> 31:00.000] little wood I think like feel to it than than like pixel [31:00.000 –> 31:05.000] pixels like Stardew. So it’s more like chibi I think kind of. [31:05.000 –> 31:10.000] But the art for like there’s like a research book and the art for that is like really good. I really [31:10.000 –> 31:15.000] like the drawings of like all the things that you’re like interacting with. [31:15.000 –> 31:20.000] Some of the character like pixels aren’t like since they’re so small [31:20.000 –> 31:25.000] it can be a little hard to like differentiate but at the same time they’re like it’s like a fantasy [31:25.000 –> 31:30.000] setting so there’s like different species like there’s like elves and like druids and stuff. So just [31:30.000 –> 31:35.000] having that different coloration of like skin types helps a little bit with that. Like [31:35.000 –> 31:40.000] who am I talking to? Oh yeah it’s Theo. [31:40.000 –> 31:45.000] But yeah I it’s it’s very I will say it’s very Stardew-esque. [31:45.000 –> 31:50.000] It feels a lot like Stardew and maybe that’s why it was like so easy like to jump into this since I’ve [31:50.000 –> 31:55.000] been on such a like Stardew like kick. Like you have like the four [31:55.000 –> 32:00.000] seasons like they’re looking to do the marriage system adding festivals. So I think it’s essentially going [32:00.000 –> 32:05.000] to be a research version of Stardew which I don’t [32:05.000 –> 32:10.000] mind. I am here for it. Exactly. There’s definitely [32:10.000 –> 32:15.000] just as much to manage I think as there is in Stardew. So there’s a whole bunch of [32:15.000 –> 32:20.000] things. There’s so many more different animals than in Stardew. [32:20.000 –> 32:25.000] And we’ll get into that I think later but it’s it’s good. I would [32:25.000 –> 32:30.000] I would recommend it. Mm hmm. Cool. I was also just trying to see if they have it planned that [32:30.000 –> 32:35.000] they want to go to Switch. I hope so. I would I would [32:35.000 –> 32:40.000] think if I don’t know anywhere in there if they had enough like buy in I think if [32:40.000 –> 32:45.000] they like. Yeah this game does well enough. I’m sure they can afford to port it. [32:45.000 –> 32:50.000] So it might just be time or if they want to spend their time elsewhere [32:50.000 –> 32:55.000] in another game or something. I don’t know. OK. So the first topic this is [32:55.000 –> 33:00.000] like so this is what they have said like quote the early access version of research story [33:00.000 –> 33:05.000] features core systems and gameplay. And then so I’m just going to like mention it and then ask you [33:05.000 –> 33:10.000] like what your thoughts are on it. So the first core gameplay system is [33:10.000 –> 33:15.000] to research farm tame and fish. And it says quote players can complete [33:15.000 –> 33:20.000] research scrolls by observing different species growing crops [33:20.000 –> 33:25.000] taming animals and fishing. There are currently 60 plus. Why not just say [33:25.000 –> 33:30.000] the number researchable so crops creatures and fish. Maybe [33:30.000 –> 33:35.000] because they like planning to like add like more as they go on. [33:35.000 –> 33:40.000] There are currently providing like a specific number [33:40.000 –> 33:45.000] then they would need to keep updating it with new updates. That’s true. So [33:46.000 –> 33:51.000] yeah. So what what are you. So let’s start with the research [33:51.000 –> 33:56.000] scrolls by observing the different species. What is how does that work. So there’s three different [33:56.000 –> 34:01.000] sorry there’s four different types of research things researchable [34:01.000 –> 34:06.000] as I guess is what they’re calling it. And they usually like there’s a lot of foraging [34:06.000 –> 34:11.000] involved in this game and that’s honestly I think the easiest way to make money early game is [34:11.000 –> 34:16.000] it’s not a huge map. So just literally during like a route like every day. [34:16.000 –> 34:21.000] So the first thing you do with like anything that you collect is find it first [34:21.000 –> 34:26.000] and then like if it’s specifically like a plant if it’s like an herb or [34:26.000 –> 34:31.000] really calling flowers and herbs or vegetables and fruits. The first thing you [34:31.000 –> 34:36.000] do is like harvest the thing. Then you have to like put it into your little mic like there’s a little [34:36.000 –> 34:41.000] microscopic. What’s the [34:41.000 –> 34:46.000] thing that lets you like zoom in closer. Microscoping glass. No it’s like [34:46.000 –> 34:51.000] the hand held glass. There we go. [34:51.000 –> 34:56.000] The microscope in your hand. Yes. The portable [34:56.000 –> 35:01.000] microscope. So so there’s like a different tab for that [35:01.000 –> 35:06.000] and there’s like different goals to I guess fully research [35:06.000 –> 35:11.000] quote unquote research a thing and that’s how you earn you earn the resource scroll. It’s very [35:11.000 –> 35:16.000] very much similar to the legends of archaea system kind of. [35:16.000 –> 35:21.000] Yeah. So you have like four four like three to four maybe three to five different tasks [35:21.000 –> 35:26.000] for each item. And then once you complete all their tasks you officially have locked to [35:26.000 –> 35:31.000] your scroll you can put in the library and you’ve officially researched this thing to its [35:31.000 –> 35:36.000] extent. And most of it is observing it [35:36.000 –> 35:41.000] like the first the first one the first task is usually observing it out [35:41.000 –> 35:46.000] like in the wild or whatever. So before you can collect seeds for plants you have [35:46.000 –> 35:51.000] to observe it like two to three times and then you can collect the seeds and then you have to actually grow the thing on your farm. [35:52.000 –> 35:57.000] And that’s how you do the you do the thing. [35:58.000 –> 36:03.000] And like the little research page that like pops up in like your research journal it’s [36:03.000 –> 36:08.000] like pretty detailed like it has like a description. So like I’m looking at camel meal it’s like a small [36:08.000 –> 36:13.000] flower with a sweet herbal scent. It shows you like what it drops. So obviously like the flower and the [36:13.000 –> 36:18.000] seeds and then the information that takes three days to grow edible blooms said to be good for brewing tea. [36:18.000 –> 36:23.000] And then it has growing conditions and foraging locations. So each. [36:23.000 –> 36:28.000] Wow. So yeah it’s very in-depth. So like you could just look at this thing and see exactly [36:28.000 –> 36:33.000] when like what season it grows in. Does it have to be close or far away from water. [36:33.000 –> 36:38.000] Does require a different type of like fertilizer. Does require a different type of soil. [36:40.000 –> 36:45.000] So it’s pretty in-depth. I really like that aspect and got a little frustrated sometimes [36:45.000 –> 36:50.000] kept planting like tomatoes and I was like why why isn’t this thing growing. And it’s because [36:50.000 –> 36:56.000] it needs to be next to a light source. So like they have like little lanterns and they even have like a shade cloth [36:56.000 –> 37:01.000] for things that need to be partial shade which is really cool. Wow. So it’s a it’s [37:01.000 –> 37:06.000] pretty in-depth. I don’t know like I can’t like I’m not super familiar with some of these plants I can’t tell [37:06.000 –> 37:12.000] like if that’s exactly the conditions you need to grow them. But I would assume they did that research [37:13.000 –> 37:18.000] research going into this game. I would hope that the [37:18.000 –> 37:23.000] game that has research in the name was researched. Right. Right. Exactly. [37:23.000 –> 37:28.000] So a couple of them I think might be like a little made up like the creatures [37:29.000 –> 37:34.000] like they have chicken but then they also have a sprout kitten which is just a cat like and [37:34.000 –> 37:39.000] has like a little plant on its head. You don’t have a sprout kitten. [37:39.000 –> 37:44.000] I don’t but I need one now. Like that is like the two [37:44.000 –> 37:49.000] like vibes that I want is like plants and cats. So it makes sense that you would [37:49.000 –> 37:54.000] put them together. Uh-huh. [37:54.000 –> 37:59.000] And like they have a grass bun which is essentially a bunny. They have a fox. [37:59.000 –> 38:04.000] The one that you are excited about is literally just called the mountain pup. [38:05.000 –> 38:10.000] Uh-huh. Yeah it’s probably supposed to be a Burmese mountain dog. Uh-huh. But the colors. [38:10.000 –> 38:15.000] So Stella my Australian Shepherd puppy she has the color like everyone says like oh [38:15.000 –> 38:20.000] Burmese. And I’m like no she’s an Australian Shepherd actually. [38:20.000 –> 38:25.000] And like I think that the tri color is actually like I’m going to look this up because [38:25.000 –> 38:30.000] I keep saying this and I don’t know if this is right. But the [38:30.000 –> 38:35.000] tri color is the original color of Australian [38:35.000 –> 38:40.000] Shepherds. Oh it just says black and white. Well [38:40.000 –> 38:45.000] dogs are so weird. Like their breeds are don’t make any sense. They’re all one species. So [38:45.000 –> 38:50.000] I don’t know. I don’t quite understand it. But yeah so she’s a so she’s a black [38:50.000 –> 38:55.000] tri. So she gets she has some she looks like a little Burmese. [38:55.000 –> 39:00.000] And but so I mean that means that the the quote [39:00.000 –> 39:05.000] unquote mountain dog and research story looks like my dog. [39:05.000 –> 39:10.000] So I saw it in the trailer and I was like I need it. I know. She is a little mountain [39:10.000 –> 39:15.000] pup. Oh my gosh I haven’t. She’s in my little mountain. Uh-huh. She is. [39:17.000 –> 39:22.000] OK. What about the fishing. Well actually there’s a lot more to the creatures too. So [39:22.000 –> 39:27.000] like let me keep going. Sorry. Keep going. Creatures. Oh you’re fine. I’m just like going in order of like this [39:27.000 –> 39:32.000] research journal. It’s like that’s the next tab. I’m like I want to go in this next order. OK. [39:32.000 –> 39:37.000] So like looking at the creatures like the same thing like you see them out in the wild to you [39:37.000 –> 39:42.000] like you pet them which we don’t recommend petting wild animals because [39:42.000 –> 39:47.000] you don’t have wild animals. Yeah please don’t. You’re going to get hurt and it’s not good for [39:47.000 –> 39:52.000] them. But anyway in this game you pet them you collect one of their like little like dropped [39:52.000 –> 39:57.000] animals like for the mountain pup. It’s a tricolor for and [39:57.000 –> 40:02.000] then you observe them out in the wild and then build a creature pen on your farm [40:02.000 –> 40:07.000] and you can house them in these creature pens which is very cute. [40:07.000 –> 40:12.000] And you just like build up like your friendship level by like feeding them and and [40:12.000 –> 40:17.000] petting them every day and then eventually they’ll like provide like some sort of produce. So the mountain pup [40:17.000 –> 40:22.000] produces bones for example and the wood ram produces milk for whatever reason. [40:22.000 –> 40:27.000] I guess it’s supposed to be a goat. I don’t know. And like the fox drops meat. [40:27.000 –> 40:32.000] My personal. I understand. My personal mountain [40:32.000 –> 40:37.000] pup finds trash. [40:38.000 –> 40:43.000] Any walk that we go on she finds every piece of trash and she [40:43.000 –> 40:48.000] wants to just chew it. But I’m going to try and teach her to like trade it so that she can [40:48.000 –> 40:53.000] so that like I’ll just start bringing trash bags or like garbage bags. And you can just clean up everything. That’s [40:53.000 –> 40:58.000] exactly. And then she finds trash and then she can bring it to me and then she puts it in the bag I’ll give her a treat [40:58.000 –> 41:03.000] and then she can find another one. And so like I need to figure out how to make it a trick. [41:03.000 &ndash

Welcome to the FuturePerfect Podcast where we talk with compelling people breaking new ground in art, media, and entertainment. This podcast is produced by FuturePerfect Studio, an extended reality studio creating immersive experiences for global audiences. Episodes are released every two weeks, visit our website futureperfect.studio for more details.The text version of this interview has been edited for length and clarity. Find the full audio version above or in your favorite podcast app.For episode 005, Wayne Ashley interviews Nick Fortugno, co-founder of the New York-based game studio Playmatics and designer of numerous digital and non-digital projects, including board games, collectible card games, large-scale social games, and theater.INTRODUCTION AND ROLEPLAYINGHey Nick, thanks for joining us. I'm really excited to dig into some of your background, ideas, projects, and particularly your alternative vision for a future of theater. I see you as a catalyst, a kind of cultural interlocutor making links across different forms of knowledge and practice, and the work you've done really attests to this. You've designed video and board games as well as outdoor public games. You're the co-founder of Playmatics, a New York game studio and the lead designer on many theater works, including Frankenstein AI and The Raven. And of course, one of the lead creators of the blockbuster mobile game Diner Dash. But first I want to go back a bit. Your cousin introduced you to roleplaying when you were quite young and you ran your first game of Dungeons and Dragons at six years old. Is it too much to assume that roleplaying is one of the most critical activities for you, if not a central organizing practice leaking into everything you do? Give us a sense of how roleplaying has activated much of your thinking and practice.Nick Fortugno: I think a central organizing principle is like a good way of thinking about it. It doesn't inform all of my work in a literal sense, but it's the heart of how I think about aesthetics. In Dungeons and Dragons, essentially what you do is you tell stories with other people and you use a rule system to adjudicate disagreement. You have a lot of “I hit you”—“no you didn't” stuff in roleplaying so you need rules to deal with that. When you're storytelling in that system and you're the person responsible for making the story, you don't story-tell the way you do in other forms where you have an idea of the story in your head and you're figuring out how to implement it in a way that will affect the audience. Instead, the players or the protagonists are interacting with you and they're changing it constantly. And so you don't know where the story is going. You have ideas of where you could go, you have ideas of what you might want to happen, but you're really in this collaborative process. And so this idea of improvising and using systems to generate things and being responsive to the interactions of other people is very much at the heart of my work. It's how I teach, how I think about storytelling centrally, and it informs a lot of my aesthetics. So yeah I would not be the person I was today if my cousin Joey didn't teach me D&D (Dungeons and Dragons) in Glen Ellyn, Illinois.DESIGN THINKINGYou're also a prolific researcher, not only of games, but of literature, theme parks, new technologies, and performance. I'm thinking about a previous discussion we had where in one breath you mentioned cultural forms that most people would never bring together in the same conversation. The list is long, but indulge me here: the British theater company Gob Squad, Galaxy's Edge at Disneyland, Harry Potter hotel, the theater collective The Wooster Group, the blockbuster event Sleep No More, the novels of Joyce and Pynchon, Evermore Park in Utah, and the epic video game Elden Ring. This cluster excites me because it's how we think as well, across these kinds of groupings. You also use this concept of affordances to enable you to think systematically across all these activities. Can you say more about that?NF: Affordance is a concept from design thinking, Donald Norman really popularized it. It's the idea that a form has features about it that lead to certain kinds of use. There are things that are intuitive in a way, or natural in a way, that come from a form. If I put a handle in a certain place, you hold the handle and that changes your use of the device. That idea that the forms start speaking to certain kinds of use cases is very central to thinking about interactive design. Because when you're a designer in those spaces you make the affordances. You don't tell users what to do. You give them something and you have them do it. That's why it's interactive. It's not like a roller coaster where I strap myself in and I just ride the rails that were put out in front of me. It's more like a theme park where there's just a bunch of stuff. But I don't go wandering off into the most boring part of the theme park. I go towards the lights, I go towards the sound, I go towards the interactive things. The design of those things that attract me, the things that challenge me, the obstacles and the rewards, all of that stuff moves me around in those spaces. This is central to the way I think about my practice.LITERATURE, PLAY AND AMBIGUITYYou have a BA in graduate study and literature. In our previous conversation, you noted an overlapping relationship between post-war American literature and the kinds of interactive narratives found in gaming. Do I have that right?In our other podcasts I've been really interested in what brings disparate people to these emerging hybrid media spaces. They come from film, dance, theater, visual art, and gaming. I think you're the first person in our podcast series making connections between Pynchon and James Joyce with interactive gaming structures. I'm curious about how you came to make these connections.NF: When I got interested in literature I was drawn to postwar postmodernist approaches to writing, like I'm thinking fifties, sixties, and seventies. But really you could stretch it from a Borgesian and Joycean and Steinean space up through the modern day. There's still authors like Ali Smith doing stuff like this. But when you look at like things like Pynchon and Nabokov in particular, their works start becoming a little bit obsessed with interpretation. Interpretation becomes the center of the novel. The novels become games about interpretations. There are other authors in that space who are really breaking down the sense of what you're supposed to consume from the story because they are, in a meta way, thinking about the fact that you're interpreting them. Whether it's Crying of Lot 49 asking you to think about what communication systems are and then challenging you on how we interpret conspiracies. And that's also all over Foucault's Pendulum. Or a book like Lolita, which is basically laughing in your face about your attempts to understand it. Or Pale Fire for that matter, which I think is an even deeper experiment. What you see over and over again is this idea that the novel is a game that the reader is playing with the novelist. It's not a puzzle. You're not going to get the answer out of it. That's not the point. And certainly postmodern poetry and people like Asbury would argue that if you got one meaning out of a poem, you didn't really read the poem anyway. The work becomes something that you as the audience have some ownership of because it is open to you and because it's an ambiguous object that you have to work with. That's what got me. I was already, just from roleplaying, very used to the idea that I participate in stories and that they come from this relationship with me and the text.So I don't like talking about interactive narrative. I think that's a bad phrase because I I'm always interacting with story. That's not new, what's new is the types of affordances of interaction that I get from stories, and what the possibilities for changing those stories are, and how much the story is a fixed thing that I encounter, and how much the story is flexible to my input. To me, the literature study was partly just giving me an outlet for stories and a place where stories can actually be quite experimental because when you just write it's cheap to make crazy worlds. It's the same amount of ink to write a crazy world as it is to write a realistic one. You can go very far with literature in a way that would be harder to do in film because you have to shoot all that stuff. The drive of novels from the modernist period on has been a drive towards more and more stylistic experimentation and that has been really engaging to me because you start seeing it as almost a formal thing. You can look at it like a structure and then you can see that the structure is doing something. Joyce's Ulysses is an excellent example of that. Each chapter is written stylistically and formally different. There are chapters that are dialogues, there are chapters where the stream of consciousness changes radically, there are chapters that drift, and that's part of the narrative. If you go back to the Oulipo experimentation that Calvino and other French and Italian authors were doing, they were literally creating that whole idea of branching trees. You start to see that there are patterns of structures of story that we can start to establish.That's the approach I take to this question of rhetoric. Exploration is a set of tropes, and branching is a set of tropes. It's similar, whether you're branching in a YouTube video or branching in a choose your own adventure, or branching in a game like Until Dawn. The branching is similar, it has similar tropes. So we can look at it structurally and say, well, what does the structure do? How do the choices in the design of the structure change things independent of content. And then what is the intersection between the content and the structure?DYNAMIC STRUCTURES AND GAMESIt's interesting to note how the strategies found in avant-garde and experimental literature have leaked into, or have become one of the dominant ways of constructing narrative within popular culture, video games, and even marketing. What was on the periphery has, in a sense, moved to the center and become part of the entertainment industry.NF: I think so because as you start moving into more dynamic and particularly digitally dynamic work it starts to have to be structural. Although that spills back into the analog, especially as internet of things (IOT) becomes very reduced in size and cost and technology starts coming back into the real world. You start seeing this there too.I'm riffing a lot on arguments in a book called Expressive Processing by Noah Wardrip-Fruin. If I make a piece of work that changes with every user and produces a different outcome, then the output of that work is not really an analysis of that work. If the work has a hundred thousand possibilities, one possibility is such a small segment of what it could be. That it gives me information as a user, but I can't really critique the work from that perspective. I have to look at the structure because it's procedural, it's not predetermined. And I think as we start moving into works that are like that, and since computers enable us to do that, that's what computers are good at is that kind of dynamic procedural, then we start to see that structural analysis and system design become more and more important. As it does, and we see the affordances that has, we can start pulling those affordances into other forms where we see similar audience relationships. So I don't think: does theater need this? Does film need this? Does installation need this? No, It doesn't need it. You can make good art without it, and obviously we have made thousands of years of good art without it, but the possibilities of the art change when you start seeing those things. That's why I think it's starting to permeate. Digital games are a very big industry and there's been a lot of really interesting storytelling in them. I don't think all people who study this stuff know that because it's locked a bit behind barriers of picking up a PlayStation 4 controller and trying to get through it. Shadow of Colossus, for example, is one of the most important digital works ever made. But not many people experience it because it's a really hard digital game. And it has to be hard. That's part of its aesthetic. But I think that the people who have bridged this are starting to see that you can inherit things from those forms into these other spaces. That's just changing the way we think and then you start to see work in the world that is just more procedural. Work that does just become more dynamic in its nature. Then you end up with stuff like LARP (Live action role-playing) where, you can't make LARP the way you make theater because I don't know what the players are gonna do. So my scripts in LARP can't be like a theater script, it doesn't make sense. I need a structure that will support 40 people running around doing random things.PARTICIPATORY EXPERIENCES DRIVEN BY TECHNOLOGYThis brings me to theater, particularly two participatory theatrical installations that you co-created. First, Frankenstein AI: a monster made by many which was an AI powered immersive experience that premiered at the 2018 Sundance Film Festival. And The Raven, which was performed as part of the Lincoln Center's New York Film Festival in 2019. Tell us what audiences might have experienced when they participated in Frankenstein AI and what was the genesis of that work?NF: Frankenstein AI has had a couple of different forms. Its original form was a small audience immersive experience where you came into a room and you interacted with another audience member at a surface computer that was like built into a table. It was formulated as an artificial intelligence asking you questions about what it was like to be human and you're sort of marking values on the table using a physical computing device that looked like an ouija board. That information was sent to an actual AI that was in a cloud which was used as the seed to determine a mood that the AI had. And then when you finished that exercise, you were brought into a room that was mapped with projections and IOT procedurally played drums and you would have a chance to talk to the artificial intelligence. The artificial intelligence would generate a question and then it would be delivered in text to speech to the audience in the room. And then the audience in the room would direct the docent to type a question into a typewriter and that would be sent back to the AI. This was all formulated where there's this AI that's been created, it has escaped into the internet and it is trying to understand what it is and what humanity is. And it's using the narrative of Frankenstein as this thing that was created that doesn't understand its role as a seed to understand where it's going. The whole thing was essentially a meditation on two things. One is this question of what is AI and what should we be worried about AI? These were the conversations that I had with Lance Weiler and Rachel Eve Ginsburg who were the co-creators of that project. My big argument was that everyone worries about Terminator, but what we should really be worried about is Kafka. AI is not a monster that takes us over. AI is a thing that doesn't understand us and then just acts procedurally in ways we don't understand.This is around the time that Microsoft had released an AI that became wildly racist and we were thinking about what it meant that we're teaching AI and how could we make a piece that gets people to reflect on the idea that we're engaged with artificial intelligence in the world? We are training it and we are going to teach the AI what it does. So if that's the case, what is our responsibility? The whole piece was kind of a meditation on that process. I did the creative technology design on that and some of the interactive narrative design of the sequencing of it. I'm very proud of that piece personally, because it was the first piece of creative technology that I ever actually showed in an exhibit. I worked on the technology that connected all of devices. So it meant that when the AI changed mood, the projections changed, and the drums changed and it pulled the AI's response and then fed that into the speech to text and delivered it into the room. So I basically did the technology that connected the surface tables to the AI, to the projectors, and to the drums. This was a topic of research I've had for a long time about how technology could be used to create these like kind of seamless connections between things. You didn't see anything happen, you just asked a question and suddenly the projections and drums changed. I call that seamless technology—technology that doesn't have clear lines where it connects. I think that could be a kind of magic and that was important to me. What did you learn from producing Frankenstein AI that changed your approaches when you then began to develop The Raven? How does The Raven work as an experience that grew from or built upon your previous work?NF: The Raven was an immersive performance where we allowed an audience into The American Irish Historical Society where they experienced a magically real story of Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven. The center of the technology of the piece was that every user had a lantern that they carried around with them. The lantern was an IOT device that was reading beacons in the space and connected to a central system. The audience also had a set of headphones that were playing audio for them. So most of the audio that was present in the piece came from the headset that was being played based on where they were and based on a character they picked at the beginning of the piece. Everyone was sort of playing a performer in the piece. The performer Ava Lee Scott, who was playing Poe and co-wrote the piece, was moving through the space as Poe meditating with these characters. But you, as the audience, were one of the people that Poe knew from his life or his creations. What Lance Weiler and I carried from Frankenstein AI was this idea that we could create a central technology system that was guiding all these users without having to have actors on top of those users moving them around. And that the storytelling could really be based on their decisions, because it was in part based on where you went and what you encountered. The other thing that Frankenstein AI taught me, in a real sense, was that these technologies could be stable. The work had a server system, that's how it ran, it was a server that was running on a small piece of technology called the Raspberry Pi. We turned it on and on the first day when we were running it we just didn't turn it off. We wanted to see if it would stay up overnight. And then we didn't turn it off for two full weeks. It just ran nonstop for two weeks and it never broke. We never had to restart it. So that taught me these things can be made battle ready. We brought a similar kind of technology to The Raven. There were obviously different technical constraints to The Raven and there were different bugs we were facing, but we went through a similar process of creating a central system that guided the narrative. If we do that right and we have the right affordances to connect to the audience that can take the place of a bunch of docents, a bunch of rules, a bunch of structures, and people can just explore. Then through that exploration they can find story. I should say that we worked with pretty robust technologies on that project. We were in partnership with Microsoft and we were using pretty heavy Azure servers and things like that, but it was not for heavy lifting stuff. It was for reliability of the delivery of the material. And then we built this gigantic XML file that was the branching script of the entire piece so that we knew where people were. We could time lights and sound cues and things like that.THE LIMITS OF THEATERWhat I find compelling about both of these projects is their capacity to posit alternative models for theater's future. They either directly or implicitly suggest that theater needs to be remediated or fixed. For the purposes of this discussion, can I make that assertion?NF: Yeah, I will also defend traditional theater, but… [laughs]That's good [laughs], but what is it about certain kinds of theater that need to be remediated and how are your explorations accomplishing this? I'm very careful to say alternative models and I'm not asking you to generalize. I think from our audience's perspective, people are going to ask: what's wrong with the kind of theater that I do? And why do I need these other systems? Why do I need to even consider these technologies? All these kinds of questions are implied, for better or worse, in the kind of work that you're proposing and the kind of exciting research that you're carrying out.NF: First of all, there's just aesthetic possibilities that are very hard to create in a linear format like theater. Guilt is hard to create in an audience. Triumph is hard to create in an audience because they don't do anything. You can get to shame, but there's types of shame you can't get to. So there's aesthetics that become possible just when someone is culpable and when someone has the ability to achieve. That becomes kind of interesting. Games have lots of emotions attached to victory and failure that can be leveraged in all sorts of interesting and weird ways. There are pieces like The Privilege of Escape, which was an escape room that was a meditation on systemic bias. That's an interesting example of a piece where the designer was trying to use the affordances of games to demonstrate a problem in the world. And games typically do that. There's just pure emotions that are inaccessible to linear media. I think because there aren't affordances for the audience to access them, despite the diversity of emotions that these forms can create. The second possibility is, it's a question of how you want to engage with your audience. As an artist, I don't really like telling people stories, that doesn't really engage me.You're the second person we've interviewed who has talked disparagingly about stories and storytelling. Say more about that.NF: I don't mind being blunt about this. I'm not that interested in my biology. I'm not that interested in my history. I don't find those things that interesting. I don't think I have a vision of storytelling that's so powerful that some muse came to me uniquely and now the word of heaven is coming through my body or something. And this isn't to knock people who do that, there are geniuses who make that work, but that's not how I create and that's not what I do. What I want is to play with you. I want to be able to engage with you and you know, catch the ball you throw and throw it back. And this isn't altruistic just to be really clear, I mean I like doing that with people, but it's also really fun to catch a bunch of balls coming at you in crazy directions and keep the whole thing on track. There's an artistry to that. That's what running an RPG is, it's like throwing track in front of a moving train. So I think that's really powerful and you get things that you would never get otherwise. Similarly, if you jam you get something that you would never get when you compose. The improvisation and the participation of other people leads you to create something new and you can do that with audiences. And you can do that with audiences in ways that don't make crappy, thin, gray, over-democratized work. Because I'm not saying that's not a problem, if you just let everybody come in and cook in the kitchen then you get no food or you get bland food or inedible stuff. Structures make it possible for people to participate in ways that are meaningful, but controlled, that fit within the aesthetic. So people understand what kinds of creations are possible in this space. And that is a whole set of techniques that then allows audiences to come in completely ignorant of what you're doing and then tell a story that they helped make that is still in the aesthetic you wanted. There's a magic to that that I think is really powerful. It opens up whole new kinds of forms and it's a different way of engaging with the world for the audience and I think that's powerful because we haven't really seen it before. There are some experiences like that, but they tend to be very high demand on the creativity or they tend to be gate-kept or they're high skill-based. And what immersive theater can do that I think is unique and independent of digital games and LARPs, is that they can be approachable. I can show up and not really know much and still participate. And I think that's a space that's really powerful. And then the third beat that I just have to mention all the time is that tickets are very expensive to these things. They charge a lot of money to get people into those things. I think that there's opportunity, from a business perspective, if you can figure out the scaling. You're seeing pieces like Particle Ink in Las Vegas which is a piece with projection mapping and dance where they're starting to figure out how to grow the audiences in ways that don't hurt the piece. You start looking at genuine business models for keeping those things up. What are other business models that can keep dancers, actors, and set designers involved? Because none of those people are going away in immersive theater, we need all of those people. We need them the same way we need them in other forms. It's a parallel skill if not an identical skill right. So we're not telling actors they're out of work. We had actors in The Raven, the actor was the center of The Raven in a lot of ways, but the actor was supplemented by all of these other things to create a new form where people can explore and make choices and feel directly engaged.NEW FORMS OF PEDAGOGYGiven this technologically seamless environment within which performance might take place, do you see the training of actors taking a different path? Or different ways for how writers produce scripts? Do we need new kinds of training for scenographers, sound and lighting designers that will accommodate and respond to these ideas and new approaches to performance? NF: Well acting, for example, in these kinds of cases, has a lot more improvisation in it. It's much more deeply based in that kind of improvisation, but it's also a lot about vulnerability. This is something that I'm just going to riff off of a writer and actor that I know Char Simpson would talk about. Char was part of the Blackout Haunted House for many years and talks very much about how they created vulnerability and that the creation of vulnerability was really important. That becomes a different way of thinking about acting. But also the idea that an audience member might ask you your favorite color and you need an answer that seems natural. That's a more roleplaying kind of acting than I think some actors are trained in, of course some actors are good at that. You don't know what's going to happen so you can't write a script the way you would normally write a script. It has to have some variation in it. You have to think about it more like story, like world building. I think directing changes because I don't know when we're gonna hit a specific moment or I don't know what perspective I'm gonna be coming from in a specific moment. So I have to think differently about that too. And you see that in digital games which will sometimes have cut scenes that are very film-like, but they'll also have scenes where users can walk around and watch what's happening. Which is why when we talk about VR we talk more about immersive theater because the viewpoint is not singular, it is a multiple viewpoint environment. So I'm thinking about it more from that perspective. Theater in the round is also relevant here. Again, that's not a new form, but it solved this problem. So maybe VR should look at theater in the round and then learn some lessons for how you keep an audience's attention in a broad space. And in fact, we're getting that big, we could think about station-based theater where people are really just drifting over a whole plaza and engaged in an experience. Are these forms going to change acting, writing, directing and set design? Sure, of course they are because the affordances of the audience are going be different and that's going to lead to different outputs. But it's not like we made up all this stuff just because the technology came along. We had happenings, we had station-based theater, we had rituals.I'm thinking about the Ramlila which I participated in India many decades ago in Varanasi. This is a month-long event that is played out over the entire city in which the inhabitants take on all the various roles. The city performs and becomes an immersive ritual and religious space. So there are absolutely precedences that are centuries old that we can draw upon. I'm thinking about how the pedagogical needs of theater will continue to change in response to these new forms that are becoming more and more central to our lives.NF: Yeah I teach immersive and dynamic narrative and I teach it in the way that we've been talking about. I teach it in this very broad, cut-across-media way. Media does not matter for the purpose of the class, that's not what it's about. It's about the tropes that the media use and how those things relate. And then you see this in disciplines like narratology where people are really coming at narrative from lots of different directions and trying to figure out how stories get told.Another point that's just very important to me is in the intersection of these forms. Because you're not going to get immersive theater from theater alone. There's a bunch of pieces that theater doesn't really know about like interaction design and a sort of multiple viewpoint about the pacing for that kind of stuff. Games understand that, but games don't understand what theater's good at. Games don't understand how you create scenes or understand how you create dramatic power, and games don't understand the value of liveness, frankly. Some of that we can get from LARPs, but LARPs aren't theater either. So it really is in the intersection of all of these fields.I think more of this is happening. You're seeing escape rooms get more theatrical. I think it's too slow, like way too slow. We could have gotten to where we are five years ago and we could be five years ahead of where we are right now. But you're starting to see some of that thinking happen. You're starting to see immersive pieces that are bringing some game elements into them. You can have conversations with people about VR where you talk about digital games and they don't scoff. This focuses again on the ideas of interaction and affordance and how those relate to storytelling that changes the orbit of everything. And then the skills that people have been learning, like the acting, writing, directing, set design, costuming, they all have a place. They're all going to be there, they're just going to circle around a different sun. And that sun is this audience member who can change what you do. That's different.Nick, thanks for all of the conversations we've had. I look forward to working with you. I think you're a really important thinker and maker, and your experiments and research bring a lot of insight into the future of performance.NF: Thank you, I appreciate that there are people like you that are thinking about these problems and working in these problems. Like with your own wonderful work and that podcasts like this exist to have these conversations. I look forward to a really bright future because there's other people like you in it. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit futureperfect.substack.com

Chris Williams has been a creative, product, studio and now insights leader in console and mobile games for over 20 years. He has held notable positions as a Project Lead for Indiana Jones at Lucasarts, VP of Mobile at PlayFirst bringing Diner Dash to the iPhone, and VP & GM of SkyRocket Studios at Big Fish which developed hit mobile F2P games like Fairway Solitaire. He is currently VP of Global Insights at Aristocrat Digital which owns Big Fish, Product Madness & Plarium.

Emma and Gil welcome returning guest Eric Zimmerman, who last appeared on the show on Episode 79 to discuss the magic circle in gaming. This time, Eric discusses his idea of the 21st century being a "ludic century," and what makes games especially important today. We also discuss how games' powers can be used for evil, if tabletop games can become more environmentally sustainable, and see if there can be an equivalent to farmers' markets or slow food in tabletop game. SHOW NOTES 1m26s: Eric's previous tabletop games: Quantum, The Metagame (with Colleen Macklin and John Sharp). He also mentions Gamelab, Diner Dash, Sissyfight, Dear Reader, NYU Game Center (where Gil and Geoff are also adjuncts), and Rules of Play. Eric also mentions his large-scale art installation games that he's done with his partner Nathalie Pozzi. Here are a few of them: Interference, Starry Heavens, and Waiting Rooms. 5m34s: Here is Eric's original Ludic Century essay/manifesto, published in 2013. 16m27s: More info about Bernie De Koven and his influential book The Well-Played Game. 18m13s: More info about the slimy practice of gerrymandering. Eric also mentions the board game El Grande. 21m45s: More info about systemic racism. 24m17s: More info about Ultimate, also known as Ultimate Frisbee. 25m53s: One thing to note here is that impartial referees in sports are a relatively recent development. In the mid-19th century, both baseball and association football (soccer) originally had each team bring their own umpire, who would attempt to agree on calls. Back then, umpires did not make calls proactively; players had to appeal to the umpire in order to get a decision.  This changed as teams got more competitive and team-based umpires failed to be impartial. Both sports brought in a neutral referee who could resolve disputes between the umpires; baseball in 1857, soccer in 1881. Eventually, the team-based umpires were dropped entirely, with soccer keeping the single referee (though they eventually added two linesmen to help make calls) and baseball renaming the referee back to "umpire" and adding three additional umpires to handle calls at each base. (Sources: Strike Four: The Evolution of Baseball, Richard Hershberger, and The Ball is Round: A Global History of Soccer, David Goldblatt.) 30m52s: Jane McGonigal's book Reality is Broken. 36m34s: The influential behavioral psychologist B.F. Skinner. 48m32s: Cheapass Games has made many of their older "envelope" games available as print-and-play downloads. 49m00s: The gone-and-gladly-forgotten CD longbox. 50m15s: The Zoomable game RATS: High Tea at Sea by Eric and Josh DeBonis.  55m42s: More information about the environmental concerns around cryptocurrency. 1h03m10s: Slow Food is an organization related to the slow movement that pushes back against the fast pace of modern life. 1h09m35s: The game Gil mentions is Avatar Stalker, from the folks at Project Avatar. He also mentions The Nest, which was first mentioned on the show by Hayley Cooper of Strange Bird Immersive on Ludology 214 - Escape from Reality. 1h12m27s: Eric mentions the artists Alex Katz and Kara Walker. 1h15m55s: Eric’s website, the NYU Game Center, and Eric's partner Nathalie Pozzi.

The famed game designer joins Mark, Erica, and Brian to discuss fundamental questions about gaming and what makes a casual game. We touch on everything from crosswords to Super Meat Boy. For more, visit prettymuchpop.com. Hear bonus content for this episode at patreon.com/prettymuchpop. This podcast is part of the Partially Examined Life network and is curated by openculture.com. Sponsor: Visit sunbasket.com/pretty and use promo code pretty to get $35 off healthy, delicious meal deliveries.

Craig and Dave play 2004's Diner Dash. then they talk about everything else other than Diner Dash. 2004's Retro Rewind was Craig's pick for reasons unknown. Well they are known, he wanted to recreate that fun of Yakuza 0's hosting minigame. I'm not sure it worked! Also the music on episode is from 2009's Flo on the Go, whoops. Want to tell us what to play? Hit us up at on twitter (https://twitter.com/thebiteffect) or on the web (https://www.thebiteffect.com/suggest)

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we return to Blizzard's 2004 classic MMORPG World of Warcraft. We discuss the focus required to work in groups, zone design and macro story choices, and delve into our first dungeon before turning to feedback. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: Into the mid-20s Podcast breakdown: 0:47       WoW talk 1:16:45  Break 1:17:16  Feedback Issues covered: shortcuts/acronyms for what's going on, our change in schedule, streamlining roles into tank/healer/dps, a first experience tanking, explosions of types of role-playing games, the interplay of innovation and risk/cost, being able to easily fall into a role, limitations on boss encounters due to role specificity, crowd control roles, elite feel for a game requiring harder roles, spreading abilities around to all classes, roles becoming automatic and rote, designing dungeons to the variety of player you actually have, building more complex MMO behaviors, limiting mechanical complexity, using position as an element in combat for boss design, adding puzzles to dungeon instances, being a part of a bigger raid, the perfect tank build, designing zones to slowly push you to the tough challenges, randomly encountering folks tackling the tough challenge, naturally pushing people to the same locations and forcing social interactions, quest lines that cycle you past places you've been, having long-term enemies and macro stories, having your endgame tie into characters you've seen before, breadcrumbing storylines, seeing higher level characters and having aspirations, returning to new player areas, Tim uses the B word, trying to find a group via server-wide channels, how busy the servers are, modern and match-making, name collisions on the server, being over-leveled for the dungeon, being overwhelmed to fulfill the role, getting careless or pulling badly, switching tactics for a dungeon, high highs and low lows, knowing your role while you're in a 5 person raid, surprises along the way with different types of characters, designing like an amusement park, having surprising visual moments, going out on an adventure, why there aren't lots of games like Shenmue, the historic hangover due to lack of diversity in AAA games marketing, making a game to reach our parents' generation, reaching Tim's mom, discoverability, attach rates and consoles, modern games with deep Shenmue vibes, mobile and casual games, availability of "classic" mobile games, game portals. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Dungeons & Dragons, Destiny, Everquest, Final Fantasy XII, Left 4 Dead, Valve, Sekiro, Lord of the Rings (obliquely), Disneyland, The Goonies, Dark Age of Camelot, Shenmue, Robin, Resident Evil, The Sims, LucasArts, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Nintendo, Wii, Wii Sports, Persona (series), Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Red Dead Redemption 2, GTA (series), Nick McCormick, Spider, Drop 7, Osmos, Andy Nealen, Big Fish, Diner Dash, Crazy Taxi, Plants vs Zombies, World of Goo, Peggle, Alchemy. Links: Shenmue on the Saturn Next time: Our (delayed) interview with Kirk Hamilton! https://twitch.tv/brettdouville, @timlongojr, and @devgameclub DevGameClub@gmail.com

Summer has arrived! For some of us, it represents a season of freedom, while for others, it’s just something to survive. In this episode, C + D share their feelings about summer and discuss the best sights, sounds, smells, and settings of the summer season. Links To Give You Life: Join the Funko #obsession and display your favorite characters from practically any fandom—even Monkey D. Luffy from One Piece Employ your own secret talents and parallel D’s journey from Barbie barista to Diner Dash waiter to Overcooked master chef The Straw Hat Pirates are taking the U.S. by storm—starting with Illinois and Wisconsin—so get on board with One Piece on Hulu Embrace your inner manga and anime nerd and learn more fun facts about One Piece Make new friends and join the Treasure Truck experience with Amazon, where C has scored some amazing deals on these items: Capture your pets (among other harmful substances in the air) with the Blue Pure 411 Air Purifier Grab a new, secondary, or backup laptop with an Acer 14” Chromebook Turn your to-do lists, meeting notes, and journal entries digital with a Rocketbook Everlast Smart Notebook Check off that bucket list item of seeing the cutest Swifty Swine Racing Pigs compete for fame at the San Diego County Fair Embrace the heat and set a new sweat record for yourself by visiting Six Flags this summer Start your own Summer Study Series—C + D recommend trying these reads: “Anna Karenina” by Leo Tolstoy—for the reader who likes the ultimate challenge “Gone with the Wind” by Margaret Mitchell—for the reader who can hear gunshots in their neighborhood “The Crucible” by Arthur Miller—for the reader who skims paragraphs just for the dialogue “The Awakening” by Kate Chopin—for the reader who secretly wants to suffer heartbreaking devastation in book form Put Obsessed to the (Taste) Test: We’ve all heard of boxed wine and, having tried it or not, can appreciate the stigma. But what about canned wine? Tiamo has red, white, and rose in cans, which could either be a great summer treat or a terrible idea. C + D shared a can of Organic Rosé picked up from a local World Market and rated it pretty highly. Listen to the episode to hear their thoughts and send in your own opinions and suggestions to currentlyobsessedclub@gmail.com.

Welcome to FanBrosShow, THE podcast that discusses geek culture from the perspective of people of color. Hosted by BenHameen, Tatiana King Jones and Jeff J. Subscribe with the button above! In this episode, Lee Daniels sure looked like he wanted to dash on Dame when Dusko Poppington decided to roll up and ask where is my money? Mr. Empire himself seems to owe some volunteer work hours to Mr. Dash and Damon wanted to know what was good? You know we had to discuss this as well as why no one seems to respect an issue when a black woman makes a point? Plus it's another epic Geekquently Asked Questions as we answer all of the questions from the geek world, and what is going on at Disney after the "Han Solo Debacle". Some quick words on Luke Cage and make sure you check our Ant-Man and The Wasp review at the link above!

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where we present our interview with Tom Hall, Project Lead of 2001's quirky Western-built Japanese-style RPG Anachronox. We talk about the team, the labor of love, what got left on the cutting floor, and various other bits and bobs. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Podcast breakdown: 0:35    Interview segment 55:28  Break 56:00  Mail/outro Issues covered: the game's science fiction underpinnings, JRPGs and adventure games, the surprise of having the adventure game elements, the lore bible and map of the Universe, generating the background information to make characters sound consistent, creating alphabets, the black and white pirate world, PAL-18's digital home world and cel-shading, knowing what happens next, writing and cinematic direction with tools (PLANET), programming the mini-games (APE), in-depth cinematics and facial animation and mitten hands, getting a story in the bathroom (and starting with the name), talking process with Terry Gilliam, little ideas coming together to unite a concept, having a poisoned past, Nick Danger and radio plays, coming up with the most surprising things you could think of, Democratus having its origins in John Carmack's D&D campaign, a planet walks into a bar, playing with expectations, feeling episodic, making characters come first to drive those episodes, loyalty missions in Mass Effect, hidden content, having different levels for different choices, renaming characters, origin of Paco's and Rho Bowman's names, Stiletto Anyway's origins, crunching too much and team size, team cohesion, structure of ION Storm, Dream Design, doing one take of Walton Simmons, thirty years into the industry, being just a bit ahead of time for mobile, directing Gordon Ramsay, missing the big references to Hitchhiker's Guide, talking about the black and white world, talking crunch, potential achievements for Anachronox, adding achievements to remastered adventure games. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Tom Hall, SoftDisk, John Carmack, John Romero, id Software, Commander Keen, Wolfenstein, DOOM, Apogee, Rise of the Triad, Terminal Velocity, ION Storm, Monkeystone Games, Hyperspace Delivery Boy, KingIsle Entertainment, Loot Drop, PlayFirst, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Monkey Island, Lee Perry, Epic, Fornite, Jet Set Radio, Borderlands, Richard Gaubert, Jake Hughes, Joey Liaw, Brian Eiserloh, Crystal Dynamics, Watchmen, Terry Gilliam, Monty Python, Brazil, Firesign Theater, Dungeons and Dragons, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, Mass Effect, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy IX, Peter Marquardt, El Mariachi, Robert Rodriguez, Band of Brothers, Eidos, Deus Ex, Murder One, Daniel Bengali, ngmoco, JAMDAT, gluMobile/PlayFirst, Cooking Dash/Restaurant Dash with Gordon Ramsay, Diner Dash, Eric Zimmerman, Jeff Green, Marc Laidlaw, Half-Life, Valve Software, Quake 2, Jedi Starfighter, MaasNeotekProto, Day of the Tentacle, Aaron Evers, Metal Gear Solid, Thief, Revolver Ocelot, PlayStation, Hideo Kojima, Peacewalker, PSP, Brandon Fernandez. Next time: Metal Gear Solid: Up thru Revolver Ocelot @brett_douville, @timlongojr, and @devgameclub DevGameClub@gmail.com

Help support the show! - http://www.patreon.com/dailyinternet   #10 - 18-year-old who spent nearly 13 years in foster care adopted into forever home   #9 - Robots should be fitted with an “ethical black box” to keep track of their decisions and enable them to explain their actions when accidents happen, researchers say.   #8 - Chinese woman dies after four abortions in a year trying for boy   #7 - Nurse reveals she left the NHS after being charged £80 for parking as she treated patient having cardiac arrest   #6 - Turkey Leaks Secret Locations of U.S. Troops in Syria   #5 - Buzz Aldrin: It's Time for Humans to Start Looking at Other Planets to Live On   #4 - 20 members of Congress demand FBI investigation into Ivanka Trump's security clearance   #3 - U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin held a second, previously undisclosed meeting at the G20 summit Trump rages at media for reporting previously undisclosed meeting with Putin   #2 - New Hampshire Decriminalizes Marijuana   #1 - 'Nobody kill anybody': Murder-free weekend urged in Baltimore     Follow us on Social: Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ireadit Instagram: https://instagram.com/ireaditcast Twitter: http://twitter.com/ireaditcast E-mail: feedback.ireadit@gmail.com   Voicemail: (508)-738-2278   Michael Schwahn: @schwahnmichael Nathan Wood: @bimmenstein

Shower habits return and things get divisive, are you #teambodywash #teambarsoap?Cast: Christian Humes, Alex Marinello, Dan WeinePokémon: 070 - WeepinbellGaming Discussions: Zelda DLC, Pokémon, Diner Dash, Mobile Games, Subscriptions & Pricing.Other: Shower Habits, Updating Software, MovingPodcast Game: *New* Micro-transgressions See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Eric Zimmerman is a game designer the co-author of four books including Rules of Play with Katie Salen, which was published in November 2004. Eric Zimmerman has written at least 24 essays and white-papers since 1996, mostly pertaining to game development from an academic standpoint. He's currently a founding faculty at the NYU Game Center. Eric Zimmerman is deeply embedded in New York Game scene. Having originally cofounded Gamelab, the studio that went out to create Diner Dash.

Eric Zimmerman is a game designer the co-author of four books including Rules of Play with Katie Salen, which was published in November 2004. Eric Zimmerman has written at least 24 essays and white-papers since 1996, mostly pertaining to game development from an academic standpoint. He's currently a founding faculty at the NYU Game Center. Eric Zimmerman is deeply embedded in New York Game scene. Having originally cofounded Gamelab, the studio that went out to create Diner Dash. In this episode, Eric explains how he designed Gamelab to be a place where people who worked there felt ownership and authorship of the intellectual property that they were creating. We also talk about the value of game design "frameworks" and the art of game design as a way of being in the world. Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com to get access to the full blog post for this episode and much more!

Deepest apologies from the GameHounds staff. We're a few days late posting this show, but on the plus side, you've had a few extra days to enjoy the GameHounds: Happy Endings shows. This episode, recorded just a few short hours before Microsoft backtracked on many of its features, may seem a bit dated. But it was dated two hours after it was recorded. The reviews and commentary on other news, however, aren't dated. What do we review and commentate? Lemme tell ya: Reviews of State of Decay, Last of Us, NHL 13, Diner Dash, and Mount Your Friends; Ken Levine is slated to write the remake of Logan's Run; Someone snooping around the code for the last Steam update found an upcoming shared library; Microsoft confirms its first-party games for Xbox One ; Sony's firmware update because it's bricking console. Enjoy.

No Continues is One Life Left's off-season weekly book / game club. Each week the team discuss different games that incorporate a single theme. This week's theme is 'Work'. Players: Jon/Log - https://twitter.com/disappointmentKaty - https://twitter.com/KTsqueakMatt - https://twitter.com/Jam_spongeSteve - https://twitter.com/misterbrilliant Playlist: 1. Diner Dash:ios - https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/diner-dash/id307011863?mt=8android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.masakapa.workout.mobine&feature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsImNvbS5tYXNha2FwYS53b3Jrb3V0Lm1vYmluZSJdonline - http://www.gamehouse.com/online-games/diner-dash-online 2. Space Station 13 - http://www.byond.com/games/exadv1/spacestation13 3. John Deere Drive Green - http://www.download-free-games.com/pc/john_deere_drive_green.htm 4. Cart Life - http://www.richardhofmeier.com/cartlife/ 5. Unmanned - http://unmanned.molleindustria.org/# Bonus Extra Credit Game:Every Day The Same Dream - http://www.molleindustria.org/everydaythesamedream/everydaythesamedream.html Tracklist: 1. The Flight Away - Sega Loungehttp://chipmusic.org/theflightaway/music/sega-lounge 2. Adhrast - The Supernovahttp://chipmusic.org/adhrast/music/the-supernova-[wip]-[1xlsdj] 3. Acharis - When You Sleephttp://chipmusic.org/acharis/music/when-you-sleep Play, listen and contribute to the show live on Resonance 104.4FM at 7pm on Monday evening, or we'll see you back here for the podcast. We'll announce next week's games on Twitter/Facebook/Google+. Team NCxx

Video games aren't just about blowing up bad guys, pretending to be a secret agent, or saving galactic civilization from moon-sized cuttlefish. Sometimes they're about everyday, ordinary things, like stock brokering! Or newspaper delivery! Or making dinner! Vinnk and Sean discuss these more "mundane" titles, and how surprisingly fun they can actually be. Haven't you ever wanted to be a lawyer? Or start your own football league? With the power of video games, this could be you! "RPG" theme song by the Imari Tones: http://imaritones.net This podcast is brought to you by the Famicom Dojo Video Series. Train Your Game at https://youtube.com/famicomdojo.

Video games aren't just about blowing up bad guys, pretending to be a secret agent, or saving galactic civilization from moon-sized cuttlefish. Sometimes they're about everyday, ordinary things, like stock brokering! Or newspaper delivery! Or making dinner! Vinnk and Sean discuss these more "mundane" titles, and how surprisingly fun they can actually be. Haven't you ever wanted to be a lawyer? Or start your own football league? With the power of video games, this could be you! As always, read our show notes at FamicomDojo.TV for a list of the games we've talked about, as well as links to excellent referential videos, PLUS the new Powet.TV Game News show hosted by SeanOrange: https://famicomdojo.tv/podcast/39 This episode is brought to you by the Famicom Dojo web series. Head over to FamicomDojo.TV your copy of the Season 1 DVD today!: https://famicomdojo.tv/store/fdojos1.php

New Releases. News. What We're Playing. Review of Diner Dash. Review of Bayonetta. Emails and Voicemails. Comedian is Dana Gould.

Yay. It's the new Humpdate! This week, three pods head your way: The SportsHound WillG reviews Wii Sports Resort, Holy Goalie takes you to the GameHounds Sanctuary for some Diner Dash, and the Rumble Pack talk Street Fighter tournament culture with the director of the new documentary I Got Next. .

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Margaret Wallace Co-founder and CEO, Playmatics. Date: November 27, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Margaret Wallace BIO: Margaret Wallace is the Co-Founder and CEO of Playmatics. And former CEO of RebelMonkey a New York-based game development studio focusing on casual games. Before Rebel Monkey, Margaret co-founded and was CEO of Skunk Studios. Prior to the establishment of Skunk Studios, Ms. Wallace produced and designed games at Shockwave.com, including Shockwave Tetris, and contributed to Mattel's Planet Hot Wheels. She also created CD-ROM and online content for Mindscape Entertainment (then also encompassing SSI & RedOrb Games) and at a start-up called PF Magic, makers of the "virtual pets" game series, Dogz and Catz, a brand currently published by Ubisoft. Ms. Wallace was recently named in Next Generation as one of the Game Industry's 100 Most Influential Women of 2006. She serves on the Steering Committee for the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) Casual Games Special Interest Group. Ms. Wallace was a Co-Editor of the 2006 IGDA Casual Games White Paper and a member of the International Academy of Digital Arts & Sciences (IADAS). Ms. Wallace holds a B.S. in Communication from Boston University and an M.A. in Communication from the University of Massachusetts/Amherst. Lucy Sanders: Hi, everybody. This is Lucy Sanders and I am the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is one in a series of podcast interviews that we are doing with women who have started IT companies. They have given us some fabulous stories and wonderful advice along the way. This is another one today with Margaret Wallace. With me are Lee Kennedy, Tricalyx Co‑founder and also Director of NCWIT. Welcome, Lee. Lee Kennedy: Thanks, Lucy. It is great to be here. Lucy: And also Larry Nelson of w3w3 Internet radio and king of technology in Colorado, the voice of technology in Colorado. Larry, welcome. Larry Nelson: Thank you. I'll settle for Lord Nelson. Lucy: Lord Nelson. Absolutely. So, Larry, why don't you say a bit about w3w3. Larry: Well, we're a web‑based Internet radio show. We started in '96 and in 1998 I predicted the Internet would die. But, anyhow we got past all of that, and in the meantime we host many wonderful business shows. We're all business. We have a high tech bent, and I have to tell you this series that we've started here so far with NCWIT has been absolutely extraordinary. We get great feedback from business leaders, business owners as well as even young people who are listening. Lucy: Well, they are going to love the interview we have today with Margaret Wallace who is the Co‑founder and CEO of Rebel Monkey. I have to tell you I just love the name of this company. When you go to Margaret's site and you read things like this: We're about fun times for all, so stay tuned for exciting announcements. I thought that was just wonderful. Before Rebel Monkey Margaret was Co‑founder and CEO of Skunk Studios in San Francisco. So tell us a bit about your new company, Rebel Monkey. It was just launched this year in the casual gaming space. Margaret Wallace: My pleasure, and hi to everyone. It is a pleasure to be here. I'll give you some background on Rebel Monkey. We are, as you said, a casual game development house. That means we focus on video games that are for the rest of us, the people who don't have eight hours a day to spend learning how to use our controllers or don't feel like hooking up a Playstation or an Xbox although casual games do appear on those platforms. We make games that hopefully will reach the widest audience possible. At least, initially, casual games are distributed on the Internet, but you'll find them, as I mentioned, on mobile phones and other causal platforms. Rebel Monkey is a company that has been around since the beginning of 2007 so we're a brand new company. I have co‑founded Rebel Monkey with a gentleman named Nick Fortugno, and Nick is probably best known as being the lead designer on the blockbuster mega hit, Diner Dash. Diner Dash is a really fun, downloadable game which focuses on the life and times of a women named Flo. She is the heroine in the game, and you play the game to build her restaurant empire. For some reason that game just ignited the imagination of casual game players everywhere, so Nick Fortugno has really enjoyed a lot of attention and success because of that title. I met him about five or six years ago, and we just realized we had a lot in common in terms of our vision for the casual game market and for video games in general. That's how Rebel Monkey was formed. Rebel Monkey is located in the center of Manhattan. We are located in the neighborhood of Chelsea in Manhattan, and we are still pretty small. We are still under about 10 people, and we are hiring, by the way. Lucy: Let's go. I'm ready to move to New York. Margaret: Yeah. Yeah. It's been really fun and, as you said, our focus is on casual games. Right now, the casual game market is typically defined as being predominantly female, predominantly women in their 30s and 40s and 50s although men and college students and kids and people of all ages do play casual games. It's just a matter of how you categorize them. Lucy: With that kind of customer dynamics, do you do anything different with the game designs or how does that feed into what you do? Margaret: Making a casual game is very different from making regular console or hard core games. The audience of casual games isn't going to have many hours to spend learning how to play their title, and so with that in mind everything that you need to show a player in terms of how to play has to happen within the first 30 seconds of trying the game. Also, the kinds of controls you use in casual games have to be a lot simpler than if you think of a Playstation controller that has all of these different buttons and shoulder buttons and X and A. With a casual game you are pretty much relegated, at least for the PC, to your left mouse button, and so it really gives the designer a lot of structure for what they can do in terms of designing the game. Some people might think it is limiting, but actually I think it lets you focus on what kind of entertainment experience you can give to the audience and giving them the best entertainment experience possible. What else is different about casual games? The themes of casual games are much different than what you would find in what people think of as your typical video game. We expect when we make a casual game that not only are adult women going to play and adult men but their children and their grandchildren and their nieces and their nephews. Really, when you are designing a casual game you have to keep the broadest audience in mind possible. That means you wouldn't really want a lot of blood, guts and gore or a lot of excessive violence, any kind of theme that might be considered a little too adult might veer into the R‑rated territory. Those kinds of things really have not shown themselves to be successful within the casual game marketplace. I love making casual games because the duration of casual game play is much shorter and quicker bursts of entertainment. The themes that you focus on are really just kind of fun and unique and not simply relegated to dungeons and dragons and wizards and stuff like that. The themes are very acceptable, very much in tune with what's happening in pop culture, and I really enjoy the fact that I can make video games that a grandmother could play with her grandchildren and feel OK about it. Lucy: And that's really important, I think, that the casual gaming space is not just entrepreneurial but very high tech which gets us to our first question around technology and how you first got into technology, Margaret. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Margaret: Sure thing. It's a really good question. I grew up in a household where my father was always bringing little gadgets home to play with them. When video cameras first came out he was one of the first people that anyone knew who had a video camera, so I think my interest in technology started from when I was a child. Then, when I went to college I was a communication major, and I studied the social and passive mass media on culture. So, I was a communication/anthropology kind of major. When I was undergrad I studied the attack of new technology on society and how people use technology and to what end. Specifically, technology in everyday life was something that always fascinated me. So this is going to completely date me but when I was undergraduate, for example, I helped conduct primary research as a research assistant for a book called "The Social and Cultural Aspects of VCR Use". That was a hot topic way back when, studying the VCR and VHS. And I also wrote an undergraduate thesis on how people were using ATM machines. I went to college as an undergrad in the 80s, and ATM machines were relatively new back then. It was this new thing around, in terms of how people access their money. Instead of going to a human teller they would use an ATM machine and I just found that endlessly fascinating. I think from that point on I always was interested in how technology gets integrated into everyday life and how that transforms personal and also social experiences. Lucy: Well, you know, I think Larry still uses his Betamax. Don't you, Larry? Larry: Well, I guess it's a seven 1/2 inch floppy disc. Lucy: OK. So, Margaret, you have to tell us how you decided to be an entrepreneur and why you like it so much. Margaret: You know that's a really great question. And I was speaking recently to a group of MBA students about this very topic. I think that fundamentally when you as a person have a passion that is just bubbling up inside you; that you just can't contain your enthusiasm and you just feel that you have this incredible calling to pursue something, I think that is a sign ‑ the beginnings of where at least my entrepreneurial ship came from. As I mentioned, I started in games industry about 10 years ago, back in the day just as the dot com boom was growing. I started at a little company called PF Magic. PF Magic made the first ever virtual pets, Dogz and Catz. Later a product called Oddballz. And for some strange slips of fate I ended up working for this start‑up called Pet Magic. I think that was the first time I saw how a start‑up environment worked and how much fun it is to just put your heart and soul into something you really believe in. Back then at PF Magic, when we worked on those virtual pets, we really believed in them. We loved those little critters that lived on your desktop. We would have knock‑down, drag‑out arguments on the big questions of life. You know, should they live or die? Should they be allowed to breathe? I was just like, this is where I belong. This is the world I want to be. Software development really just, it's just a whole ‑‑ it gives you everything at your disposal. Whereas people who make film, for example, they have to assemble a cast. They have to find a scriptwriter. You need that to a certain extent when you're doing software. At least in my eyes it was more achievable ‑ the forum for which I could see my inventions and my creative aspirations take life. Subsequently after Pet Magic, I had an opportunity to work at a few other start‑ups. I was at a company called Shockwave.com, in its early days. Just being on the West Coast in the Bay area in the middle of the dot com boom, seeing things work really well, seeing things fail just miserably. Just being part of that and being part of the excitement of having a passion and seeing it to fruition, and living and breathing it every day and every night. It's so much more fulfilling as a personal choice and as a way to live my life than almost anything I had ever done before. I guess, to kind of circle back to the beginning of your question, what inspired me to take the entrepreneurial route? I would say, it was that burning passion, part of me might be an inventor. I really love coming up with inventions and seeing them implemented from start to finish. Larry: Over the years with all the different things that you have done, I'm sure there have been many people that have been important to you, that have made a big deal of difference, have been the mentor and so on. If you were to pick out one person, and I know that's tough, but it you could pick out one person who was your most important mentor, a turning point in your life, who would that be? Margaret: Oh, that's a great question. I keep saying that, but you guys are asking really thought‑provoking questions and really difficult questions. So thanks a lot, Larry. To pick one person... OK, off the top of my head, I would go back to my teachers. And if I had to pick one teacher I would say it was a professor I had as an undergraduate in college. Her name was Julia Dobrow, and she, at the time, was a professor at Boston University. And for some reason, I don't know why, sheer luck perhaps, she really kind of took me under her wing. Now at the time, I was interested in being an academic. I was going to teach media culture in society. That was my thing. New technology was a focus. She basically had me help her conduct research for her book, so I just got to learn so much about communication, intercultural communication, because she dealt with themes of that. She also dealt with themes of the impact of new technology. I just think that she opened my world in terms of, I don't want to say taking myself seriously because I always took myself seriously, but I think she helped give me focus. I think she helped give shape to my aspirations. And I really do have to credit her with giving me that extra shot I needed to focus like a laser beam, as another person in my life used to say. Lucy: But you can't mention, because Larry said you can only mention one. Margaret: Exactly. Note my self control. Lucy: Yeah, very admirable. Well, teachers are really, really important. A very important influence and it sounds like this one, in particular, was for you. Along the way, in addition to having mentors and people who have influenced you, you have probably also had some tough choices to make. Some things I think you may have mentioned earlier, companies that either wildly succeeded or failed miserably. What is the toughest thing you have had to do in your career so far, Margaret? Margaret: OK, can I give you two answers for that? Larry: Well... Margaret: Or just one? Lucy: Yes, of course you can give us two. Margaret: OK, I think the toughest thing that I had to learn in my career was to develop patience. I grew up on the East Coast, where people will say what they think without really thinking. I believe early on, when I started in the industry, if I felt impatience about how quickly we might have been progressing on a project or if I saw one of the start‑ups I was a part of, maybe going down a path that maybe didn't seem to make sense. Look, eighty percent of your audience does this, why are we focusing on the twenty percent that don't really care. You know, those types of questions. I think when I started off, in video games in particular, I was this brash and brazen twenty‑something year old. I would not mince words. And so I would just say, well it's so obvious we should do this and this. I have learned the art, I think, of patience and diplomacy, in the sense of everybody needs to be heard. That's what makes a strong team. At the end of the day, the strong leaders are the ones that can guide the team or make the decisions at the end of the day. But really everyone's opinion is valid, which I always believed, but just my impatience. Do we have to go through this? Do we have to go over this? Time's wasting. I've kind of cooled my jets a little bit on that front. It's been very beneficial. And then closely related to that, or somewhat related to that in terms of it being tough, is just knowing when you need to cut your losses. If there is ever a path that you take in your career, or a project that you take on, or business decision you make. Every business decision counts. Even the smallest ones in six months to a year's time can come back to haunt you for better or for worse. So there are times you want to make the best decisions, but there are times you are not going to make the best decision. And really coming to terms with that as soon as possible and acting on cutting your losses or rectifying something that may not be going as you planned, as soon as you can, rather than letting something fester, which I think can be death to any start‑up. There's no room for festering. So there goes that impatience again. [laughs] Lucy: It's clear you've learned a lot, being in a number of start‑ups over the years. I'm sure you can give some good advice to people that are just thinking about getting into a start‑up or being an entrepreneur. So if you were sitting here with a young group of people, what would you advise them? Margaret: In terms of giving advice to younger people, who are interested in either beginning their own startup or joining a startup, it really depends on who that person is, what they are looking for and whether they are starting something from scratch or joining something that is already happening. I think that if you know that you are an entrepreneur early on and my route to being an entrepreneur was a lot more circuitous than that I think then the best thing to do is first of all try to get out there and meet as many people as you possibly can. There is no one in the industry that you are interested in who isn't worth talking to, at least, once. And it's just amazing. I'm sure you guys have had this experience, too. You will meet somebody randomly at a conference or on a project, and two years down the line you run into them. Three years down the line you see that person again. Ten years down the lines you still see that person. You both have done different things in your lives, but the people you meet along the way will be the people you encounter over and over. So, I think the most important thing is get out there and meet people. Talk to people. Be a good listener and specifically for women I would say women who feel they have that entrepreneurial spirit need to ‑ I don't mean to stereotype but ‑ evangelize themselves and not be shy about putting themselves out there because you are only going to get noticed insofar as you speak up. In a lot of ways ‑ be a good listener if you are planning to join a startup and you are at the very beginning of your career. Find out all you can about them before you work with them. You don't want to spend two or three years of your life working for something that has no future. Really just try to take every opportunity and really think about what's good for you. Don't feel compelled to act on an opportunity because you are worried another opportunity won't come your way. Ask questions and learn everything you can. I think that's what I did starting out as an entrepreneur with these different startups, and I just absorbed the culture and I learned everything I could by hook and by crook and maybe even despite myself. At the end of the day that all kind of meshed together, and I draw from those experiences on a daily basis. I can say that for sure in running this company and my past company. Larry: Well, networking or whatever we want to call it, is really critical. That is a fact. One of the things I can't help but think about is here you have gone through all of these different things. You've got this new company now called Rebel Monkey. How do you bring about balance to your personal and your professional lives? Margaret: The balance thing, I would say that I give you a lot of entrepreneurs who don't bring that balance into their lives. And I would admit for me I go through phases where I will keep in mind that it's good to take a breather because when you own your own company the work just never ends. You could work at five o'clock in the morning. You could work at two o'clock in the afternoon. There is always something to do. And there is always something to think about and there is always something to address or fix or pay attention to. When I am at my best in terms of keeping that balance because really if an entrepreneur becomes too myopic and too entrenched in their company and they don't get out and they don't see the world and they don't talk to people and they don't go to the movies, they are not going to be very good at running their business because they are just going to be a mess. So, when I am really treating myself well and my business well at the same time, I am doing things like I'll go to the gym; I'll go to yoga. I have a lot of friends who are around me that I can draw on for support. I have other fellow entrepreneurs who are at different stages of their own startup experience that I can hang out with and commiserate with. One thing I have had to learn not to do is ‑ and I'm not very good at it ‑ I try not to turn on the computer and check my email at two o'clock in the morning. I was doing just that this morning, so I didn't really succeed this time. But, it's always a matter of just remembering that the world isn't going to end if I take a four hour break or I take a Saturday and I go on a road trip, for example, or I go to a spa. I love going to spas! Lucy: Yeah that spa thing! I really liked what you have to say there around treating yourself well and things going better for the business when you can. In fact, it's been a theme of these interviews that people seldom have balance every day. It's more of an integration. It's more of a phase type of thing as well. Larry: We're actually going to take a train to a spa right after this interview. Lucy: We are! We're going to the spa? Good! That is my kind of interview where we go to the spa. I also thought that some of your remarks that every business decision counts, even the little ones. If you think about it that way, it's only obvious that you're going to make some mistakes. I thought that that was especially good wisdom. So, Margaret, this really leads us to our last question around your future. You've accomplished a lot so far, a lot of wisdom, a lot of great casual games and critters. Virtual critters that have personalities. And don't tell us if you've killed them off or not we don't want to know. What's next for you? You've already achieved a lot. Why don't you tell us what's down the road a bit for you? Margaret: Well, what is next for me and for Rebel Monkey? My heart and soul is basically poured to rebel monkey right now and I have so much enthusiasm for what we're going to be accomplishing as a company. Again, the work environment here is just a great work environment. The people we have hired ‑ we had some bumps along the way because this is a brand new studio ‑ the people are great. So I want to keep the environment and the culture here at Rebel Monkey as positive as it seems to have always been so far. I have a great business partner, Nick Fortuno. Not that we don't challenge each other, it not that we don't disagree at times but our competencies complement each other so well and our vision for Casual Games is so much in sync. I want to maintain that. We're going to be coming out with some brand new titles at the end of the year. Everything that Rebel Monkey makes, just by the way that sets us apart a little more than your average video game developer. We own everything we make. We don't do any work for hire. We don't do any contract work. We don't work with the larger brands because we don't own them. So the brands that we work with are our babies, for lack of a better word, our pets. As a company, we've made our mark in downloadable games for a specific audience and I think we're going to be looking to expand our audience to other age groups because they're out there. They're already playing Casual Games and I don't think there's enough content that's been made to serve them. So we're going to be completely expanding our presence with these newer audiences and exploring other kinds of business models that are out there in addition to the try before you buy model which is what you see with downloadable games. If you like it, you pay 20 bucks to own it forever. I think there is a lot of exciting stuff that I see happening in Asia and Korea around multiplayer gaming. That's pretty exciting. So I think that if Rebel Monkey came up with an impromptu tagline it would be 'Evolution of casual games.' I really think that's where my co‑founder, Nick, and I really want to put our focus. We want to evolve casual games to the next level. We want to expand the audience and we want to make some blockbuster brands for people to enjoy with their families and with their friends. Larry: Lucy and Lee, you two really pulled together some fantastic heroes for the National Centre for Women and Information Technology Series. This is just fantastic! Lucy: It's wonderful. Margaret it has been fantastic. It's been really interesting to hear I didn't know as much about casual games as I thought I knew. So now I know a lot more. It's been really interesting! Lee: I'm ready to go download some and play them. Lucy: Me too! Larry: Well take a train and get there! Margaret, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. And by the way, listeners out there pass this interview along to others that you think would be interested because they can download it as a podcast at w3w3.com. And of course it's hosted at www.ncweb.org. That's it. Tune in and thank you for joining us. Lee: Thank you Margaret. Lucy: Thank you Margaret. Margaret: Thank you everybody! Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Margaret WallaceInterview Summary: Margaret Wallace grew up in a "gadget" household, and as an undergraduate she studied the intersection of technology and culture. Release Date: November 27, 2007Interview Subject: Margaret WallaceInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 25:10

In this show we take a look at some previous blog postings. NCTT 10th Annual Summer Worskshop discussion. Thanks to all that attended and special thanks to our presenters and Juniper Networks and Apple as sponsors. Thursday, July 12, 2007 Blog Skype Everywhere There have been a couple of interesting Skype product upgrades/releases over the past few days. The first is SoonR Talk, an AJAX enabled application that allows Skype to run on the iPhone and other mobile devices. The second is the release of Skype on the Nokia N800 Internet tablet. The small hand-held device connects to available Wi-Fi networks that we're all finding just about everywhere these days. Here's a Yahoo News quote from Gartner analyst Elroy Jopling: "We will see more Skype and similar free Wi-Fi phone services moving into mobile devices in the U.S. and Europe, he said, although Europe could adopt it more quickly. However, he said he expects to see "mobile operators put up as many roadblocks as they can" in both places". Both of these products allow free Skype voice calls from anywhere to anywhere with Wi-Fi access. Saturday, July 14, 2007 Blog Some Interesting Skype Alternatives Network Computing recently published a piece evaluating 6 Skype Alternatives here. Each alternative adds enhanced features that Skype currelty does not offer. Here's the list: Grand Central - This product allows you to select one phone number and link up to six phone numbers you enter into your user profile. For example, you can set your Grand Central account to ring both your office phone and your cell phone. The one you pick up is the one that connects the call. Grand Central was acquired by Google a few days ago (Mike Q was the first to tip me off) and is currently taking number reservations on their website. TalkPlus - TalkPlus is sort of the opposite of Grand Central - it allows you to have several phone numbers that all ring to one phone. TalkPlus is inexpensive but not free. They currently offer number in 32 different countries and especially looks like a great product if someone has relatives in other parts of the world. Jajah - I've blogged on Jajah in the past - see link here. Jajah provides a paid service that allows calls to be routed to landline/cell to landline/cell in many parts of the world without long distance fees. Here's how it works: Let's say I'm a Jajah customer and I want to call my brother who is living in London. I log into my Jajah account at jajah.com, enter my brother's landline or cell number and my landline or cell number. Jajah makes the connection and rings my phone and then my brothers phone over connections that are local to each of us. Talkster - Talkster's paid service provides calls from phones to to voice-enabled instant-messaging services like GoogleTalk and Yahoo IM. One of the neat things about Talkster is that it allows you to see your friends presence (whether or not they are on IM) using you mobile phone browser. Jangl - Jangl is a currently free service (even for international calls) that works similar to Jajah - it connects phone network end-points. The difference is Jangl does not require that you know the number you want to call. Jangl uses semi-permanent phone numbers and allows people to call you that don't know your permanent number. Jaxtr - Jaxtr is similar to Jangl with a flashier user interface. It is also currently a free service for domestic and international calls. Both Jangl and Jaxtr's anonymity features cater to the "social networker" market. Each of these products offer features and functionality beyond current Skype offerings - it will be very interesting to see what Google does with Grand Central. Now Skype is not without competion, right? T-Mobile HotSpot @Home service   For $10 a month, on top of your regular plan, you can eliminate the problem of poor wireless coverage in your home and make unlimited calls without using voice-plan minutes. All it takes is a broadband connection, a Wi-Fi network, and one of two Wi-Fi-ready handsets sold by T-Mobile. T-Mobile's product is based on  Unlicensed Mobile Access (UMA) - we'll have to do a separate podcast on this technology. Thursday, July 19, 2007 Blog Goodbye Copper? There’s been some recent press about Verizon and their FIOS product installation. FIOS is a fiber optic network service that delivers voice, video and data services. You may also see it referred to as a Fiber to the Premises (FTTP) or Fiber to the Home (FTTH) service that Verizon is selling and installing in select markets in 16 different states. Most who have the service installed are extremely happy with the bandwidth and cost when compared to lower bandwidth DSL and Cable Modem services. The product has become so popular that it is even being used as a selling point by real estate agents when marketing homes. A few are complaining though. It appears Verizon, when installing the FIOS service, is cutting out the existing copper lines leaving the customer with only one option – fiber and FIOS. There are a couple of good reasons from a business perspective for Verizon to do this. The first is the existing copper wiring is old and requires a significant amount of maintenance – Verizon spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year just maintaining the existing “copper plant? and it makes sense to remove it when it is replaced. The second reason is the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which requires the telephone companies (like Verizon) share their existing copper lines with competitors. There is no current legal requirement for Verizon to share new fiber optic lines with anyone. In fairness to Verizon, there is a three step notification process for people who sign up for the FIOS service. According to the International Herald Tribune, customers are told by the Verizon sales person, it is indicated in the sales contract and the customer is told by the technician that the copper will be cut out. Currently, Verizon is publicly stating they will replace removed copper if a FIOS customer wished to revert back to copper service. Also according to the International Herald Tribune, Verizon has filed more than 100 notices with the Federal Communications Commission to retire portions of copper throughout its network. I can understand the customer concerns about lack of choice and some technical issues like battery back-up and also Verizon’s concerns about having to maintain two separate networks. Friday, July 20, 2007 Blog Casual Gaming = Big Business The Hollywood Reporter has reported that Nickelodeon will make an investment of $100 million in the development of casual games. Casual games are games that are typically played for a few minutes at a time - examples include puzzle and card games. This announcement was made by Nickelodeon Kids and Family Group President Cyma Zarghami at the Casual Connect Gaming Conference yesterday in Seattle. Zarghami is quoted: "Particularly in the kids' space, with more than 86% of kids 8 to 14 gaming online, we see great momentum for online casual gaming," Also, according to The Reporter: "Included in the Nickelodeon initiative is myNoggin, a preschool educational game in the form of a subscription service; an expansion of the Nicktropolis multiplayer games franchise; Nick Gaming Club, Nickelodeon's first subscription offering featuring multiplayer games with 3-D avatars; the-NGames.com, a casual gaming site geared toward female teens; and the transformation of the site Neopets.com to NeoStudios, a property centering on the creation of new online virtual world experiences". In addition, the Casual Game Association (CGA) has released some preliminary data from their Casual Games 2007 Report. Here's a few preliminary data highlights from a MCV press release: The number of games being submitted to major online portals has doubled over the past two years, suggesting an increase in new publishers developing more titles. In 2006 the most popular casual games were Mystery Case Files, Diner Dash, Cake Mania, Bejeweled and Slingo. Women still make up the majority (74%) of all paying players online with men now represent about half of the much-larger non-paying player universe. The number of games being submitted to major online portals has doubled over the past two years, suggesting an increase in new publishers developing more titles. The rapid growth of the casual games market has prompted companies to create games for more audiences and also for more platforms, including the Internet, PC and Macintosh computers, Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo DS, Wii and even mobile phones and PDAs. The full CGA report will be released in the fall - if you are interested in receiving a copy watch the CGA website at http://www.casualgamesassociation.org or send an email to datastudy@casualgamesassociation.org

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Sangita Verma Founder and CEO, TAG Networks Date: July 3, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Sangita Verma BIO: Sangita Verma leveraged 13 years of executive experience in the videogame industry to found the world’s preeminent interactive games-on-demand network in May 2003 -- TAG Television. Providing a full service, turnkey solution, TAG Networks provides the nation’s first massively deployable games channel for cable and IPTV television. TAG TV lets players enjoy the timeless appeal of popular and brand-name games including Tetris®, Battleship®, Risk®, Barney™, and Thomas the Tank Engine™, as well as popular online games including Bejeweled™, Diner Dash™, and Bookworm™, and Texas Hold 'Em Poker. In her role as CEO, Ms. Verma has secured $20 in funding from private equity investors, established exclusive content agreements with leading game suppliers and global brands, and filed eight patents covering key proprietary technologies for delivering interactive content for cable and IPTV. A strategic planner, veteran marketer, and business visionary, she taps skills gleaned from a varied yet focused career to lead TAG Networks' management team of seasoned game, licensing, video-on-demand, interactive television, technology and consumer entertainment product specialists. Prior to founding TAG Networks, Ms. Verma worked with Midway Games, starting with the company in 2000 as director of worldwide syndication. Previously, she had her own online marketing company, Craig New Media, working with Panasonic and Psygnosis (a Sony Company) among others. Before that she was group marketing director for Panasonic Interactive Media Co. Her videogame career started at Data East Corp., where she managed the U.S. marketing activities and then moved on to establish and manage Data East’s European office. Sangita Verma is a member of the Entrepreneurs Foundation's CEO Council and was voted one of the Top 50 Most Powerful Women In Cable Technology by CableWorld magazine in 2006. She is also a member of the Women in Cable and Telecommunications (WICT) "Tech It Out" mentoring programming which encourages girls to consider technical career paths. She is a graduate of UC Davis, having earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics. Ms. Verma lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband and two sons. Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology, and this is another interview in a series of interviews with IT entrepreneurial women. And today, we're talking to the CEO and founder of TAG Networks, Sangita Verma. Hi, Sangita. How are you? Sangita Verma: Hi, Lucy. I'm great. Thanks for having me on your show. Lucy: Wonderful. With me today is Larry Nelson, from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm happy to be here, as you know. This is exciting. Lucy: Well, why don't you tell us a bit about w3w3.com, since these podcasts will be hosted on your site as well as the NCWIT site. Larry: Well, the short story is that we're an online business radio show. We started in '98, and we archive everything with pictures and audio, blogs, and podcasts. So that's us. Lucy: That's pretty exciting. Well, and we are excited to have you here today, Sangita. You have an awesome company. And I have to tell you, it must be every computer scientist's dream to work with a company that is so involved with gaming. And in fact, just to throw a little factoid in here, they did a survey recently of young men and women who decided they want to go into information technology, and in fact, many of them want to go in because of gaming. So, why don't you tell us a little bit about TAG Networks? It's a very exciting, on‑demand network for games. Sangita: Thanks, Lucy. You're right. Games are a lot of fun. They really are. I think that when it comes to technology, there's so many aspects that are very interesting, but I've never found anything as pure fun as the games part is. But, what we're doing at TAG Networks is we're creating the first games‑on‑demand television network. And so, as a consumer, you turn on your TV and you tune to a channel, just like you would HBO or MTV or BBC. The difference is that you can start playing games right there with your remote control that's already in your hand. The types of games that we offer are considered casual games, so we're not competing against consoles like Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3. I think, our games experience is more similar to what you would find on the Internet, at sites like Pogo or MSN Zone or AOL Games. So, it's puzzle games, card games, kids' games ‑ things like that. Lucy: It's a great concept, and I'm sure it's going to be extremely popular. And these are exciting times for you. I hear your company just raised a Series B on funding, and you're doing a scale‑up of your technology. Sangita: Yes. This is actually a very exciting time for us. When I describe it to people, I like to think that this is 1981 and we're MTV. We feel like we're just sort of right on the verge of taking off, and in a huge way. The trials that we've had at market with our cable operator partners so far have been phenomenal. It truly shows that consumers love games. They want to play games. They want to play them on a big screen. And if you make it easy right there for them, it's staggering the number of hours that they play and how frequently they play. So, we're very excited about that. And we're very excited that we've created some proprietary, amazing technology that is enabling us to be able to go to what I consider the next generation of TV networks. Lucy: Well, and maybe one more sort of incidental before we get into the interview. I have to say that NCWIT is having a reception pretty soon at the football stadium at the University of Colorado, and we have access to the JumboTron. Sangita: Oh, yeah. Lucy: And so, maybe, we could put a few games up there. It's on an IP network. It might all work. Sangita: That would be great. It's so funny you mentioned that, because when you think about one of the really popular things at a baseball game, as silly as it is, it's the little dot race game. Lucy: It surely is. Everybody loves it at the CU football games. Sangita: Right. Exactly. And so, there's a very, very simple application of a game, yet everyone loves it. I think, it just goes back to showing how people love games. Lucy: Well, and that gets us, maybe, into the interview, in terms of asking some questions about technology. I know TAG Networks has a lot of interesting technology that you have to use to deploy this type of game‑on‑demand network. But, other technologies that you see out there, Sangita, what are you seeing on the horizon that you think is especially cool? Sangita: I think that just the whole social networking phenomenon is very cool, and the technologies that are enabled by that. I think that it'll become even more interesting when it is tied across platforms and across devices. Right now, social networking is very big on the Internet, but it's growing on other platforms. For example, I had just read ‑ in fact, yesterday ‑ that Microsoft has the largest social network connected to the TV, via their Xbox Live service. And I think that as you start seeing these devices connecting people, and it's not limited anymore to a platform or device, that's where it becomes even more exciting. Larry: By the way, could we back up? I've just got one interesting question. How did you first get into technology? And then, tie that in with why are you an entrepreneur? Sangita: Oh, OK. Well, it's funny, because I don't think of myself as getting into technology. So, I kind of fell into the games industry. I was doing investor relations when I first got out of college. And I did that for a couple of years and decided that I wanted to do something that was a little more creative and a little more fun, and at a variety of different places, found a games company that sounded like a lot of fun. I didn't know anything about games at the time. This was back, gosh, 16, 17 years ago now. Nintendo was considered a kids' toy, was just taking off at that point. I started working for this games company called Data East and just fell in love with the industry. And I've watched how I think technology has progressed just amazingly across just about everything. I mean, the rate of acceleration of invention is incredible. But, in the games world, you really saw it, because you would see these eight‑bit games back in 1990, to what they're doing now on the Xbox 360. And that's all technology. That's all enabling entertainment. And so, as I got more into the games industry, I really started getting more into the technology that enables you to have a better games experience, to have a better consumer experience. So, it's funny, because I think when people think about technology, or certainly when most young women think about technology, which is where I was at that age, it didn't sound that fun. It didn't sound that glamorous. It sounded kind of nerdy. You had to know math. I think, all the aspects of technology that people really were harping on weren't necessarily the really fun things that technology can be, which is creating amazing user experiences and entertainment and platforms to be able to enable people to do the things that they want to do. And that's the part that hooked me and really got me into the technology aspect, as opposed to "I want to be a technologist." Larry: What about that leap to becoming an entrepreneur? Sangita: Oh. Gosh. You know? I don't know. I think, I just have always been one. It wasn't a conscious effort. It was just, I had an idea, I didn't see anyone doing it the way that I thought it should be done, and I just said, "You know what? I'm just going to do it." And I did it. There really was not a lot of thought. There wasn't a lot of pros and cons listed. It was just the thing to do. And I did it. Lucy: That's wonderful. I mean, I'm sitting here listening to your description of why you like technology, thinking that we need to have you come to our NCWIT meetings and carry that message, because that's exactly what we're up to is really trying to convey that sense of energy and passion and what makes technology so much fun. S Sangita: Yeah. And I was thinking about this, in preparation of us talking. When people think about becoming a doctor, for example, they just think about becoming a doctor and saving lives and what other aspects of it is it that really turns them on. They don't think about, "Oh, I've got to know physics. I've got to go to medical school for this." They don't think about all the little details that get involved in it. They just have the vision of what they want to be. And I think that, with technology in particular, we kind of miss that because, at least when I was in school, the dwelling was always on, "Well, you've got to do this. You've got to do this kind of math. This is what you've got to like to do." And the vision of what you can truly create wasn't ever shown as an end goal. Lucy: That's right. And I think that that's a really important message to get out there. So, Larry was asking a little bit about being an entrepreneur and what makes you tick in terms of being an entrepreneur. Who was it that influenced you along the way? Who, perhaps, is your greatest role model? Who's helped you along in this career path? Sangita: I think, it's a combination of things. I think, one, I've been very fortunate to work with just some fantastic people throughout my career. But, probably, the bigger driver was, when I started working with the games company back in 1990, they had a fantastic management team on board. I was 25 at the time, and I was excited that I would be able to learn from these people that were really good at what they did. Well, the company went through a series of changes, and, within a year, the whole management team was gone. And the next thing I knew, I was running all of North American marketing. Larry: [laughs] Lucy: [laughs] I'm not laughing because they were gone. It's just one of those moments in life, you know? Sangita: Yeah. I know. I joined the company in order to learn from these people, and then they disappeared, and I learned. It was trial by fire. It truly was. "You're in charge of North America. Now, go." And so, in hindsight, I think, maybe, that helped really instill my entrepreneurial spirit even more, because I didn't have a choice. I just had to learn. I had to do it. And it was very exciting. And of course, you make mistakes as you go, but you learn from them. And I think everything that I did up until I started TAG Networks kind of led to a culmination of where I am with TAG Networks and why we think we're going to be really successful. Larry: Let me ask this. It sounds like you've had an exciting and very fun career all this time. You've accomplished a great deal; you're on the road to accomplishing even more. What is something that maybe you've had to put up with a little that maybe you didn't get to overcome, you had to learn to live with, along the way? Sangita: Oh, that's a great question. I think, the only thing that I can say ‑ I'm kind of living it right now, frankly ‑ is you can only control what you can control, and everything else you just have to kind of roll with. That's a tough lesson. And it's tough for, I think, probably any entrepreneur, but it certainly is for me, because an old boss once called me I'm a steamroller. I just go and I get things done. And so, when you get stopped by things out of your control, it's difficult. Certainly, TAG Networks, our distributors are cable operators like Comcast and Time Warner, and IPTV companies like Verizon and AT&T. And anyone who has worked with those operators knows that they have their own timelines, and they're not necessarily your timelines. And so, I think that has been a challenge. It's just learning to become more patient. And that's hard to do. And it's really hard to do given the environment that TAG Networks is located in. We are literally across the street from Google. And so, we're right here in the midst of the Silicon Valley, where things happen so quickly, and it's hard to be working with industries where their speed is not the same as what is around you. Lucy: I hate it when I can't control things. Don't you? [laughter] Larry: Put your hand down now. Put your hand down. [laughter] Sangita: I'm getting better about it. But, it is hard. I mean, that's probably one of my hardest... Lucy: I think, it's hard, too. Hate it. I think that that's great advice, to sort of sit back sometimes and be patient and see which way things are going to kind of land, right? And I think, you probably have some other really great advice, that if you were giving advice to a young person today about entrepreneurship, what other things would you say to them? Sangita: Probably, the biggest thing ‑ and maybe it's a cliché ‑ is really, you need to be passionate about what you're doing. If you believe in your idea, then follow it. And then, the second part of that is, keep following it. Don't let people talk you out of it. Because it is amazing to me how many people either don't understand your vision, don't believe in your vision, or just don't think it'll work. They will get in the way. And if you let them talk you out of it, it's a mistake, because I find that when things are right, they all fall together in just the most interesting ways that you could not have planned for. Larry: Sangita, let me ask this. This is no time to be humble. I want you just to be straightforward about this. What characteristics do you have that make you a successful entrepreneur? Sangita: Oh, this is actually really easy for me to answer. I am tenacious. I do not give up. Larry: [laughs] Sangita: I don't take no for an answer. Frankly, I'm just a pain in the ass. [laughter] Lucy: We're kind of laughing because, in this series of interviews, this characteristic shows up over and over, maybe, slightly differently said ‑ relentless, persistent. I think, you said "steamroller." Larry: I think we ought to have an award called the "pain in the..." You know what I mean. [laughter] Sangita: It makes sense to me that that would be a strong characteristic of an entrepreneur, just given the obstacles that you run into. If you just gave up, you wouldn't get anywhere. And so, I think, it's the people that are willing to stick it out. And when I say stick it out, of course, you may need to make course correction, and you may decide an idea that you had wasn't quite right and it needs to be refined here or there. But, if you believe in a vision and keep going, and don't let things get in the way and deter you, at the end of the day I think you'll be successful. Lucy: I think, that's well said. And being an entrepreneur is just so much work, and you do have to be relentless and take risks and get out there. And yet, we recognize, too, that people have personal lives. They have causes they believe in. They do things with families and friends. So, we were just wondering, in your particular case, how do you personally bring balance into your professional and personal life? Sangita: That is probably the ultimate question. I went to a Women in Cable conference in New York, a couple of months ago now, and it was really refreshing for me because up on the stage were some very high‑powered women in cable speaking: Gerry Laybourne, who is, I believe, the chairman of Oxygen, and a few others. And the one comment that they made, which I think resonated with everyone, including myself, is, "There's no such thing as balance. You just can't do it, so don't even try." And I think, that's right. I think, you need to pick what is important, and you just can't do everything. So, for me personally, at this stage of my life, it's a business. It's TAG Network, and it's my family. I've got two little boys. I'm married. I've got a husband and two little boys, who are four and nine. And so, my life really is my family and my work. And what I've had to sacrifice are things like having a clean house and getting together with friends as much as I used to ‑ I don't do that anymore. And that's OK. I mean, I know that that'll change. It's just sort of a stage that I'm in at right now. And I think that when women try and do everything, where they try and have the cleanest house and the best‑behaved children and run a company and throw parties like Martha Stewart, that's where you get into trouble, because you just can't do it. It's crazy to try. Lucy: I don't want you coming over and seeing my house. [laughs] It doesn't look very good either. Sangita: Trust me. Then, I'll feel right at home. Lucy: [laughs] It doesn't look very good either. Larry: That wasn't a slip of the tongue when you said "trouble" and "Martha Stewart" in the same sentence, was it? Lucy: I don't think Martha gets to come over to our house either. Sangita: But, it's a matter of figuring out what the priorities are and realizing that something's got to give, and being comfortable with just saying, "OK. Let's let that part go for now. I'll come back to it when I can." Larry: Now, I'm going to put you on the spot. Sangita: OK. Larry: All right. You've already achieved a great deal. Thank you for sharing your personal, and professional, aspects of your life this past number of years. And I'd like to ask, what's next for you, above and beyond TAG Networks? Sangita: Gosh. That's a great question. Again, I am so focused, again, just on TAG and my family that I rarely poke my head up to see what else is going on. I do know one of the things that is important to me ‑ and as well to my husband, to us, I think, as a family ‑ is figuring out: how do we give back to the community? We've been so lucky that the next stage, that hopefully TAG is very successful and we'll sell it for millions of dollars and we'll have some time on our hands. What can we do then, to give back to the community? And so, we've got some ideas of different things that we'd like to do. So, I think, perhaps taking some time off to do, for lack of a better word, social venture work, or enabling other people to get to where they want to be, would be fantastic. Larry: Oh. A person after your own heart. Lucy: A person after my own heart. Well, thank you very much, Sangita. This has really been interesting. I think, you're very inspirational, and I know our listeners will get a lot out of hearing your advice and some of your experiences. And I just want to remind everybody to share this podcast with a friend. And I'd like to remind listeners where you can find these podcasts. You can find them at www.ncwit.org, as well as w3w3.com. And don't forget to share this podcast with a friend. Thanks very much, Sangita. Sangita: Thank you. Larry: Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Sangita VermaInterview Summary: Sangita Verma saw a void in the marketplace: games on TV, piped directly through your cable line. Release Date: July 3, 2007Interview Subject: Sangita VermaInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 17:17

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This week, surprise snow, being stereotypical Jews on Xmas, Papa John's gets on our bad side, big money with no whammies at the supermarket, why is the drive thru at Dunkin' Donuts so crowded?, pumping gas in small town America, a triumphant return to our alma mater, Scrubs, Diner Dash 2, and Massachusetts is not its own country for tax evasion purposes. Music: "Latke Clan" by The LeeVees, courtesy of the Podsafe Music Network Intro Music: "Pocketbook" by Derek K Miller Outro Music: "Remember Hope" by Farewell Redemption Podcasts Mentioned: Mostly News My Take on That Life on Tap Geek Acres Cheap Date Technorati Tags: Podcasts Boston Massachusetts New England Feedback: Feel free to e-mail us at WickedGoodPodcast|at|gmail.com or call us at 206-600-MASS(6277)!