Podcast appearances and mentions of John Mullan

Marking the 250th anniversary of the birth of Jane Austen, we'll discuss her life and legacy. Featuring: Lizzie Dunford, director of the Jane Austen House museum, John Mullan, author of the book What Matters in Jane Austen?, and Janet Todd of the University of Cambridge.

Tuesday is the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen's birth, so today I spoke to John Mullan, professor of English Literature at UCL, author of What Matters in Jane Austen. John and I talked about how Austen's fiction would have developed if she had not died young, the innovations of Persuasion, wealth inequality in Austen, slavery and theatricals in Mansfield Park, as well as Iris Murdoch, A.S. Byatt, Patricia Beer, the Dunciad, and the Booker Prize. This was an excellent episode. My thanks to John!TranscriptHenry Oliver (00:00)Today, I am talking to John Mullen. John is a professor of English literature at University College London, and he is the author of many splendid books, including How Novels Work and the Artful Dickens. I recommend the Artful Dickens to you all. But today we are talking about Jane Austen because it's going to be her birthday in a couple of days. And John wrote What Matters in Jane Austen, which is another book I recommend to you all. John, welcome.John Mullan (00:51)It's great to be here.Henry Oliver (00:53)What do you think would have happened to Austin's fiction if she had not died young?John Mullan (00:58)Ha ha! I've been waiting all this year to be asked that question from somebody truly perspicacious. ⁓ Because it's a question I often answer even though I'm not asked it, because it's a very interesting one, I think. And also, I think it's a bit, it's answerable a little bit because there was a certain trajectory to her career. I think it's very difficult to imagine what she would have written.John Mullan (01:28)But I think there are two things which are almost certain. The first is that she would have gone on writing and that she would have written a deal more novels. And then even the possibility that there has been in the past of her being overlooked or neglected would have been closed. ⁓ And secondly, and perhaps more significantly for her, I think she would have become well known.in her own lifetime. you know, partly that's because she was already being outed, as it were, you know, of course, as ⁓ you'll know, Henry, you know, she published all the novels that were published in her lifetime were published anonymously. So even people who were who were following her career and who bought a novel like Mansfield Park, which said on the title page by the author of Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice, they knew they knew.John Mullan (02:26)were getting something by the same author, they wouldn't necessarily have known the author's name and I think that would have become, as it did with other authors who began anonymously, that would have disappeared and she would have become something of a literary celebrity I would suggest and then she would have met other authors and she'd have been invited to some London literary parties in effect and I think that would have been very interesting how that might have changed her writing.John Mullan (02:54)if it would have changed her writing as well as her life. She, like everybody else, would have met Coleridge. ⁓ I think that would have happened. She would have become a name in her own lifetime and that would have meant that her partial disappearance, I think, from sort of public consciousness in the 19th century wouldn't have happened.Henry Oliver (03:17)It's interesting to think, you know, if she had been, depending on how old she would have been, could she have read the Pickwick papers? How would she have reacted to that? Yes. Yeah. Nope.John Mullan (03:24)Ha ha ha ha ha!Yes, she would have been in her 60s, but that's not so old, speaking of somebody in their 60s. ⁓ Yes, it's a very interesting notion, isn't it? I mean, there would have been other things which happened after her premature demise, which she might have responded to. I think particularly there was a terrific fashion for before Dickens came along in the 1830s, there was a terrific fashion in the 1820s for what were called silver fork novels, which were novels of sort of high life of kind of the kind of people who knew Byron, but I mean as fictional characters. And we don't read them anymore, but they were they were quite sort of high quality, glossy products and people loved them. And I'm I like to think she might have reacted to that with her sort of with her disdain, think, her witty disdain for all aristocrats. know, nobody with a title is really any good in her novels, are they? And, you know, the nearest you get is Mr. Darcy, who is an Earl's nephew. And that's more of a problem for him than almost anything else. ⁓ She would surely have responded satirically to that fashion.Henry Oliver (04:28)Hahaha.Yes, and then we might have had a Hazlitt essay about her as well, which would have been all these lost gems. Yes. Are there ways in which persuasion was innovative that Emma was not?John Mullan (04:58)Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know, I know.⁓ gosh, all right, you're homing in on the real tricky ones. Okay, okay. ⁓ That Emma was not. Yes, I think so. I think it took, in its method, it took further what she had done in Emma.Henry Oliver (05:14)Ha ha.This is your exam today,John Mullan (05:36)which is that method of kind of we inhabit the consciousness of a character. And I I think of Jane Austen as a writer who is always reacting to her own last novel, as it were. And I think, you know, probably the Beatles were like that or Mozart was like that. think, you know, great artists often are like that, that at a certain stage, if what they're doing is so different from what everybody else has done before,they stop being influenced by anybody else. They just influence themselves. And so I think after Emma, Jane Austen had this extraordinary ⁓ method she perfected in that novel, this free indirect style of a third-person narration, which is filtered through the consciousness of a character who in Emma's case is self-deludedly wrong about almost everything. And it's...brilliantly tricksy and mischievous and elaborate use of that device which tricks even the reader quite often, certainly the first time reader. And then she got to persuasion and I think she is at least doing something new and different with that method which is there's Anne Elliot. Anne Elliot's a good person. Anne Elliot's judgment is very good. She's the most cultured and cultivated of Jane Austen's heroines. She is, as Jane Austen herself said about Anne Elliot, almost too good for me. And so what she does is she gives her a whole new vein of self-deception, which is the self-deception in the way of a good person who always wants to think things are worse than they are and who always, who, because suspicious of their own desires and motives sort of tamps them down and suppresses them. And we live in this extraordinary mind of this character who's often ignored, she's always overhearing conversations. Almost every dialogue in the novel seems to be something Anne overhears rather than takes part in. And the consciousness of a character whodoesn't want to acknowledge things in themselves which you and I might think were quite natural and reasonable and indeed in our psychotherapeutic age to be expressed from the rooftops. You still fancy this guy? Fine! Admit it to yourself. ⁓ No. So it's not repression actually, exactly. It's a sort of virtuous self-control somehow which I think lots of readers find rather masochistic about her. Henry Oliver (08:38)I find that book interesting because in Sense and Sensibility she's sort of opposed self-command with self-expression, but she doesn't do that in Persuasion. She says, no, no, I'm just going to be the courage of, no, self-command. know, Eleanor becomes the heroine.John Mullan (08:48)Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But with the odd with the odd burst of Mariannes, I was watching the I thought execrable Netflix ⁓ persuasion done about two or three years ago ⁓ with the luminous Dakota Johnson as as you know, as Anne Elliot. You could not believe her bloom had faded one little bit, I think.John Mullan (09:23)And ⁓ I don't know if you saw it, but the modus operandi rather following the lead set by that film, The Favourite, which was set in Queen Anne's reign, but adopted the Demotic English of the 21st century. similarly, this adaptation, much influenced by Fleabag, decided to deal with the challenge of Jane Austen's dialogue by simply not using it, you know, and having her speak in a completely contemporary idiom. But there were just one or two lines, very, very few from the novel, that appeared. And when they appeared, they sort of cried through the screen at you. And one of them, slightly to qualify what you've just said, was a line I'd hardly noticed before. as it was one of the few Austin lines in the programme, in the film, I really noticed it. And it was much more Marianne than Eleanor. And that's when, I don't know if you remember, and Captain Wentworth, they're in Bath. So now they are sort of used to talking to each other. And Louisa Musgrove's done her recovering from injury and gone off and got engaged to Captain Benwick, Captain Benwick. So Wentworth's a free man. And Anne is aware, becoming aware that he may be still interested in her. And there's a card party, an evening party arranged by Sir Walter Elliot. And Captain Wentworth is given an invitation, even though they used to disapprove of him because he's now a naval hero and a rich man. And Captain Wentworth and Anna making slightly awkward conversation. And Captain Wentworth says, you did not used to like cards.I mean, he realizes what he said, because what he said is, remember you eight years ago. I remember we didn't have to do cards. We did snogging and music. That's what we did. But anyway, he did not used to like cards. And he suddenly realizes what a giveaway that is. And he says something like, but then time brings many changes. And she says, she cries out, I am not so much changed.Henry Oliver (11:23)Mm. Mm, yes, yes. Yep.Yes.Cries out, yeah.John Mullan (11:50)It's absolutely electric line and that's not Eleanor is it? That's not an Eleanor-ish line. ⁓ Eleanor would say indeed time evinces such dispositions in most extraordinary ways. She would say some Johnsonian thing wouldn't she? so I don't think it's quite a return to the same territory or the same kind of psychology.Henry Oliver (12:05)That's right. Yes, yes, yeah.No, that's interesting, yeah. One of the things that happens in Persuasion is that you get this impressionistic writing. So a bit like Mrs. Elliot talking while she picks strawberries. When Lady Russell comes into Bath, you get that wonderful scene of the noises and the sounds. Is this a sort of step forward in a way? And you can think of Austen as not an evolutionary missing link as such, but she's sort of halfway between Humphrey Clinker and Mr. Jangle.Is that something that she would have sort of developed?John Mullan (12:49)I think that's quite possible. haven't really thought about it before, but you're right. think there are these, ⁓ there are especially, they're impressionistic ⁓ passages which are tied up with Anne's emotions. And there's an absolutely, I think, short, simple, but extraordinarily original one when she meets him again after eight years. And it says something like, the room was full, full of people. Mary said something and you're in the blur of it. He said all that was right, you know, and she can't hear the words, she can't hear the words and you can't hear the words and you're inside and she's even, you're even sort of looking at the floor because she's looking at the floor and in Anne's sort of consciousness, often slightly fevered despite itself, you do exactly get this sort of, ⁓ for want of a better word, blur of impressions, which is entirely unlike, isn't it, Emma's sort of ⁓ drama of inner thought, which is always assertive, argumentative, perhaps self-correcting sometimes, but nothing if not confidently articulate.John Mullan (14:17)And with Anne, it's a blur of stuff. there is a sort of perhaps a kind of inklings of a stream of consciousness method there.Henry Oliver (14:27)I think so, yeah. Why is it that Flaubert and other writers get all the credit for what Jane Austen invented?John Mullan (14:35)Join my campaign, Henry. It is so vexing. It is vexing. sometimes thought, I sometimes have thought, but perhaps this is a little xenophobic of me, that the reason that Jane Austen is too little appreciated and read in France is because then they would have to admit that Flaubertdidn't do it first, you know. ⁓Henry Oliver (14:40)It's vexing, isn't it?John Mullan (15:04)I mean, I suppose there's an answer from literary history, which is simply for various reasons, ⁓ some of them to do with what became fashionable in literary fiction, as we would now call it. Jane Austen was not very widely read or known in the 19th century. So it wasn't as if, as it were, Tolstoy was reading Jane Austen and saying, this is not up to much. He wasn't. He was reading Elizabeth Gaskell.Jane Eyre ⁓ and tons of Dickens, tons, every single word Dickens published, of course. ⁓ So Jane Austen, know, to cite an example I've just referred to, I Charlotte Bronte knew nothing of Jane Austen until George Henry Lewis, George Eliot's partner, who is carrying the torch for Jane Austen, said, you really should read some. And that's why we have her famous letter saying, it's, you know, it's commonplace and foolish things she said. But so I think the first thing to establish is she was really not very widely read. So it wasn't that people were reading it and not getting it. It was which, you know, I think there's a little bit of that with Dickens. He was very widely read and people because of that almost didn't see how innovative he was, how extraordinarily experimental. It was too weird. But they still loved it as comic or melodramatic fiction. But I think Jane Austen simply wasn't very widely read until the late 19th century. So I don't know if Flaubert read her. I would say almost certainly not. Dickens owned a set of Jane Austen, but that was amongst 350 selecting volumes of the select British novelists. Probably he never read Jane Austen. Tolstoy and you know never did, you know I bet Dostoevsky didn't, any number of great writers didn't.Henry Oliver (17:09)I find it hard to believe that Dickens didn't read her.John Mullan (17:12)Well, I don't actually, I'm afraid, because I mean the one occasion that I know of in his surviving correspondence when she's mentioned is after the publication of Little Dorrit when ⁓ his great bosom friend Forster writes to him and says, Flora Finching, that must be Miss Bates. Yes. You must have been thinking of Miss Bates.John Mullan (17:41)And he didn't write it in a sort of, you plagiarist type way, I he was saying you've varied, it's a variation upon that character and Dickens we wrote back and we have his reply absolutely denying this. Unfortunately his denial doesn't make it clear whether he knew who Miss Bates was but hadn't it been influenced or whether he simply didn't know but what he doesn't… It's the one opportunity where he could have said, well, of course I've read Emma, but that's not my sort of thing. ⁓ of course I delight in Miss Bates, but I had no idea of thinking of her when I... He has every opportunity to say something about Jane Austen and he doesn't say anything about her. He just says, no.Henry Oliver (18:29)But doesn't he elsewhere deny having read Jane Eyre? And that's just like, no one believes you, Charles.John Mullan (18:32)Yes.Well, he may deny it, but he also elsewhere admits to it. Yeah.Henry Oliver (18:39)Okay, but you know, just because he doesn't come out with it.John Mullan (18:43)No, no, it's true, but he wouldn't have been singular and not reading Jane Austen. That's what I'm saying. Yes. So it's possible to ignore her innovativeness simply by not having read her. But I do think, I mean, briefly, that there is another thing as well, which is that really until the late 20th century almost, even though she'd become a wide, hugely famous, hugely widely read and staple of sort of A levels and undergraduate courses author, her real, ⁓ her sort of experiments with form were still very rarely acknowledged. And I mean, it was only really, I think in the sort of almost 1980s, really a lot in my working lifetime that people have started saying the kind of thing you were asking about now but hang on free and direct style no forget flow bear forget Henry James I mean they're terrific but actually this woman who never met an accomplished author in her life who had no literary exchanges with fellow writersShe did it at a little table in a house in Hampshire. Just did it.Henry Oliver (20:14)Was she a Tory or an Enlightenment Liberal or something else?John Mullan (20:19)⁓ well I think the likeliest, if I had to pin my colours to a mast, I think she would be a combination of the two things you said. I think she would have been an enlightenment Tory, as it were. So I think there is some evidence that ⁓ perhaps because also I think she was probably quite reasonably devout Anglican. So there is some evidence that… She might have been conservative with a small C, but I think she was also an enlightenment person. I think she and her, especially her father and at least a couple of her brothers, you know, would have sat around reading 18th century texts and having enlightened discussions and clearly they were, you know, and they had, it's perfect, you know, absolutely hard and fast evidence, for instance, that they would have been that they were sympathetic to the abolition of slavery, that they were ⁓ sceptics about the virtues of monarchical power and clear-eyed about its corruption, that they had no, Jane Austen, as I said at the beginning of this exchange, had no great respect or admiration for the aristocratic ruling class at all. ⁓ So there's aspects of her politics which aren't conservative with a big C anyway, but I think enlightened, think, I mean I, you know, I got into all this because I loved her novels, I've almost found out about her family inadvertently because you meet scary J-Night experts at Jane Austen Society of North America conferences and if you don't know about it, they look at scants. But it is all interesting and I think her family were rather terrific actually, her immediate family. I think they were enlightened, bookish, optimistic, optimistic people who didn't sit around moaning about the state of the country or their own, you know, not having been left enough money in exes will. And...I think that they were in the broadest sense enlightened people by the standard of their times and perhaps by any standards.Henry Oliver (22:42)Is Mansfield Park about slavery?John Mullan (22:45)Not at all, no. I don't think so. I don't think so. And I think, you know, the famous little passage, for it is only a passage in which Edmund and Fanny talk about the fact it's not a direct dialogue. They are having a dialogue about the fact that they had, but Fanny had this conversation or attempt at conversation ⁓ a day or two before. And until relatively recently, nobody much commented on that passage. It doesn't mean they didn't read it or understand it, but now I have not had an interview, a conversation, a dialogue involving Mansfield Park in the last, in living memory, which hasn't mentioned it, because it's so apparently responsive to our priorities, our needs and our interests. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's a it's a parenthetic part of the novel. ⁓ And of course, there was this Edward Said article some decades ago, which became very widely known and widely read. And although I think Edward Said, you know, was a was a wonderful writer in many ways. ⁓I think he just completely misunderstands it ⁓ in a way that's rather strange for a literary critic because he says it sort of represents, you know, author's and a whole society's silence about this issue, the source of wealth for these people in provincial England being the enslavement of people the other side of the Atlantic. But of course, Jane Auster didn't have to put that bit in her novel, if she'd wanted really to remain silent, she wouldn't have put it in, would she? And the conversation is one where Edmund says, know, ⁓ you know, my father would have liked you to continue when you were asking about, yeah, and she says, but there was such terrible silence. And she's referring to the other Bertram siblings who indeed are, of course, heedless, selfish ⁓ young people who certainly will not want to know that their affluence is underwritten by, you know, the employment of slaves on a sugar plantation. But the implication, I think, of that passage is very clearly that Fanny would have, the reader of the time would have been expected to infer that Fanny shares the sympathies that Jane Austen, with her admiration, her love, she says, of Thomas Clarkson. The countries leading abolitionists would have had and that Edmund would also share them. And I think Edmund is saying something rather surprising, which I've always sort of wondered about, which is he's saying, my father would have liked to talk about it more. And what does that mean? Does that mean, my father's actually, he's one of these enlightened ones who's kind of, you know, freeing the slaves or does it mean, my father actually knows how to defend his corner? He would have beenYou know, he doesn't he doesn't feel threatened or worried about discussing it. It's not at all clear where Sir Thomas is in this, but I think it's pretty clear where Edmund and Fanny are.Henry Oliver (26:08)How seriously do you take the idea that we are supposed to disapprove of the family theatricals and that young ladies putting on plays at home is immoral?John Mullan (26:31)Well, I would, mean, perhaps I could quote what two students who were discussing exactly this issue said quite some time ago in a class where a seminar was running on Mansfield Park. And one of the students can't remember their names, I'm afraid. I can't remember their identities, so I'm safe to quote them. ⁓ They're now probably running PR companies or commercial solicitors. And one of them I would say a less perceptive student said, why the big deal about the amateur dramatics? I mean, what's Jane Austen's problem? And there was a pause and another student in the room who I would suggest was a bit more of an alpha student said, really, I'm surprised you asked that. I don't think I've ever read a novel in which I've seen characters behaving so badly as this.And I think that's the answer. The answer isn't that the amateur dramatics themselves are sort of wrong, because of course Jane Austen and her family did them. They indulged in them. ⁓ It's that it gives the opportunity, the license for appalling, mean truly appalling behaviour. I mean, Henry Crawford, you know, to cut to the chase on this, Henry Crawford is seducing a woman in front of her fiance and he enjoys it not just because he enjoys seducing women, that's what he does, but because it's in front of him and he gets an extra kick out of it. You know, he has himself after all already said earlier in the novel, oh, I much prefer an engaged woman, he has said to his sister and Mrs. Grant. Yes, of course he does. So he's doing that. Mariah and Julia are fighting over him. Mr. Rushworth, he's not behaving badly, he's just behaving like a silly arse. Mary Crawford, my goodness, what is she up to? She's up to using the amateur dramatics for her own kind of seductions whilst pretending to be sort of doing it almost unwillingly. I mean, it seems to me an elaborate, beautifully choreographed elaboration of the selfishness, sensuality and hypocrisy of almost everybody involved. And it's not because it's amateur dramatics, but amateur dramatics gives them the chance to behave so badly.Henry Oliver (29:26)Someone told me that Thomas Piketty says that Jane Austen depicts a society in which inequality of wealth is natural and morally justified. Is that true?John Mullan (29:29)Ha⁓Well, again, Thomas Piketty, I wish we had him here for a good old mud wrestle. ⁓ I would say that the problem with his analysis is the coupling of the two adjectives, natural and morally right. I think there is a strong argument that inequality is depicted as natural or at least inevitable, inescapable in Jane Austen's novels.but not morally right, as it were. In fact, not at all morally right. There is a certain, I think you could be exaggerated little and call it almost fatalism about that such inequalities. Do you remember Mr. Knightley says to Emma, in Emma, when he's admonishing her for her, you know, again, a different way, terribly bad behavior.Henry Oliver (30:38)At the picnic.John Mullan (30:39)At the picnic when she's humiliatedMiss Bates really and Mr Knightley says something like if she'd been your equal you know then it wouldn't have been so bad because she could have retaliated she could have come back but she's not and she says and he says something like I won't get the words exactly right but I can get quite close he says sinceher youth, she has sunk. And if she lives much longer, will sink further. And he doesn't say, ⁓ well, we must have a collection to do something about it, or we must have a revolution to do something about it, or if only the government would bring in better pensions, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't sort of rail against it as we feel obliged to. ⁓ He just accepts it as an inevitable part of what happens because of the bad luck of her birth, of the career that her father followed, of the fact that he died too early probably, of the fact that she herself never married and so on. That's the way it is. And Mr Knightley is, I think, a remarkably kind character, he's one of the kindest people in Jane Austen and he's always doing surreptitious kindnesses to people and you know he gives the Bates's stuff, things to eat and so on. He arranges for his carriage to carry them places but he accepts that that is the order of things. ⁓ But I, you know Henry, I don't know what you think, I think reading novels or literature perhaps more generally, but especially novels from the past, is when you're responding to your question to Mr. Piketty's quote, is quite a sort of, can be quite an interesting corrective to our own vanities, I think, because we, I mean, I'm not saying, you know, the poor are always with us, as it were, like Jesus, but... ⁓ You know, we are so ⁓ used to speaking and arguing as if any degree of poverty is in principle politically remediable, you know, and should be. And characters in Jane Austen don't think that way. And I don't think Jane Austen thought that way.Henry Oliver (33:16)Yes, yes. Yeah.The other thing I would say is that ⁓ the people who discuss Jane Austen publicly and write about her are usually middle class or on middle class incomes. And there's a kind of collective blindness to the fact that what we call Miss Bates poverty simply means that she's slipping out of the upper middle class and she will no longer have her maid.⁓ It doesn't actually mean, she'll still be living on a lot more than a factory worker, who at that time would have been living on a lot more than an agricultural worker, and who would have been living on a lot more than someone in what we would think of as destitution, or someone who was necessitous or whatever. So there's a certain extent to which I actually think what Austin is very good at showing is the... ⁓ the dynamics of a newly commercial society. So at the same time that Miss Bates is sinking, ⁓ I forget his name, but the farmer, the nice farmer, Robert Martin, he's rising. And they all, all classes meet at the drapier and class distinctions are slightly blurred by the presence of nice fabric.John Mullan (34:24)Mr. Robert Martin. Henry Oliver (34:37)And if your income comes from turnips, that's fine. You can have the same material that Emma has. And Jane Austen knows that she lives in this world of buttons and bonnets and muslins and all these new ⁓ imports and innovations. And, you know, I think Persuasion is a very good novel. ⁓ to say to Piketty, well, there's nothing natural about wealth inequality and persuasion. And it's not Miss Bates who's sinking, it's the baronet. And all these admirals are coming up and he has that very funny line, doesn't he? You're at terrible risk in the Navy that you'd be cut by a man who your father would have cut his father. And so I think actually she's not a Piketty person, but she's very clear-eyed about... quote unquote, what capitalism is doing to wealth inequality. Yeah, yeah.John Mullan (35:26)Yes, she is indeed. Indeed.Clear-eyed, I think, is just the adjective. I mean, I suppose the nearest she gets to a description. Yeah, she writes about the classes that she knows from the inside, as it were. So one could complain, people have complained. She doesn't represent what it's like to be an agricultural worker, even though agricultural labour is going on all around the communities in which her novels are set.And I mean, I think that that's a sort of rather banal objection, but there's no denying it in a way. If you think a novelist has a duty, as it were, to cover the classes and to cover the occupations, then it's not a duty that Jane Austen at all perceived. However, there is quite, there is something like, not a representation of destitution as you get in Dickens.but a representation of something inching towards poverty in Mansfield Park, which is the famous, as if Jane Austen was showing you she could do this sort of thing, which is the whole Portsmouth episode, which describes with a degree of domestic detail she never uses anywhere else in her fiction. When she's with the more affluent people, the living conditions, the food, the sheer disgustingness and tawdryness of life in the lodgings in Portsmouth where the Price family live. And of course, in a way, it's not natural because ⁓ in their particular circumstances, Lieutenant Price is an alcoholic.They've got far too many children. ⁓ He's a useless, sweary-mouthed boozer ⁓ and also had the misfortune to be wounded. ⁓ And she, his wife, Fanny's mother, is a slattern. We get told she's a slattern. And it's not quite clear if that's a word in Fanny's head or if that's Jane Austen's word. And Jane Austen...Fanny even goes so far as to think if Mrs. Norris were in charge here, and Mrs. Norris is as it were, she's the biggest sadist in all Jane Austen's fiction. She's like sort Gestapo guard monquet. If Mrs. Norris were in charge, it wouldn't be so bad here, but it's terrible. And Jane Austen even, know, she describes the color of the milk, doesn't she? The blue moats floating in the milk.She dis- and it's all through Fanny's perception. And Fanny's lived in this rather loveless grand place. And now it's a great sort of, ⁓ it's a coup d'etat. She now makes Fanny yearn for the loveless grand place, you know, because of what you were saying really, Henry, because as I would say, she's such an unsentimental writer, you know, andyou sort of think, you know, there's going to be no temptation for her to say, to show Fanny back in the loving bosom of her family, realising what hollow hearted people those Bertrams are. You know, she even describes the mark, doesn't she, that Mr Price's head, his greasy hair is left on the wall. It's terrific. And it's not destitution, but it's something like a life which must be led by a great sort of rank of British people at the time and Jane Austen can give you that, she can.Henry Oliver (39:26)Yeah, yeah. That's another very Dickensian moment. I'm not going to push this little thesis of mine too far, but the grease on the chair. It's like Mr. Jaggers in his horse hair. Yes. That's right, that's right. ⁓ Virginia Woolf said that Jane Austen is the most difficult novelist to catch in the act of greatness. Is that true?John Mullan (39:34)Yes, yes, yes, it is these details that Dickens would have noticed of course. Yes.Yes.⁓ I think it is so true. think that Virginia Woolf, she was such a true, well, I think she was a wonderful critic, actually, generally. Yeah, I think she was a wonderful critic. you know, when I've had a couple of glasses of Rioja, I've been known to say, to shocked students, ⁓ because you don't drink Rioja with students very often nowadays, but it can happen. ⁓ But she was a greater critic than novelist, you know.Henry Oliver (39:54)Yeah.Best critic of the 20th century. Yes, yes. Yeah. And also greater than Emson and all these people who get the airtime. Yes, yes.John Mullan (40:20)You know.I know, I know, but that's perhaps because she didn't have a theory or an argument, you know, and the Seven Types, I know that's to her credit, but you know, the Seven Types of Ambiguity thing is a very strong sort of argument, even if...Henry Oliver (40:31)Much to her credit.But look, if the last library was on fire and I could only save one of them, I'd let all the other critics in the 20th century burn and I'd take the common reader, wouldn't you?John Mullan (40:47)Okay. Yes, I, well, I think I agree. think she's a wonderful critic and both stringent and open. I mean, it's an extraordinary way, you know, doesn't let anybody get away with anything, but on the other hand is genuinely ready to, to find something new to, to anyway. ⁓ the thing she said about Austin, she said lots of good things about Austin and most of them are good because they're true. And the thing about… Yes, so what I would, I think what she meant was something like this, that amongst the very greatest writers, so I don't know, Shakespeare or Milton or, you know, something like that, you could take almost a line, yes? You can take a line and it's already glowing with sort of radioactive brilliance, know, and ⁓ Jane Austen, the line itself, there are wonderful sentences.)Mr. Bennett was so odd a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humor, reserve and caprice that the experience of three and 20 years had been insufficient to make his wife understand his character. I mean, that's as good as anything in Hamlet, isn't it? So odd a mixture and there he is, the oddest mixture there's ever been. And you think he must exist, he must exist. But anyway, most lines in Jane Austen probably aren't like that and it's as if in order to ⁓ explain how brilliant she is and this is something you can do when you teach Jane Austen, makes her terrific to teach I think, you can look at any bit and if everybody's read the novel and remembers it you can look at any paragraph or almost any line of dialogue and see how wonderful it is because it will connect to so many other things. But out of context, if you see what I mean, it doesn't always have that glow of significance. And sometimes, you know, the sort of almost most innocuous phrases and lines actually have extraordinary dramatic complexity. but you've got to know what's gone on before, probably what goes on after, who's in the room listening, and so on. And so you can't just catch it, you have to explain it. ⁓ You can't just, as it were, it, as you might quote, you know, a sort of a great line of Wordsworth or something.Henry Oliver (43:49)Even the quotable bits, you know, the bit that gets used to explain free and direct style in Pride and Prejudice where she says ⁓ living in sight of their own warehouses. Even a line like that is just so much better when you've been reading the book and you know who is being ventriloquized.John Mullan (43:59)Well, my favourite one is from Pride and Prejudice is after she's read the letter Mr Darcy gives her explaining what Wickham is really like, really, for truth of their relationship and their history. And she interrogates herself. And then at the end, there's ⁓ a passage which is in a passage of narration, but which is certainly in going through Elizabeth's thoughts. And it ends, she had been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd. And I just think it's, if you've got to know Elizabeth, you just know that that payoff adjective, absurd, that's the coup de grace. Because of course, finding other people absurd is her occupation. It's what makes her so delightful. And it's what makes us complicit with her.Henry Oliver (44:48)Yeah.That's right.John Mullan (45:05)She sees how ridiculous Sir William Lucas and her sister Mary, all these people, and now she has absurded herself, as it were. So blind partial prejudice, these are all repetitions of the same thought. But only Elizabeth would end the list absurd. I think it's just terrific. But you have to have read the book just to get that. That's a whole sentence.You have to have read the book to get the sentence, don't you?Henry Oliver (45:34)Yep, indeed. ⁓ Do we love Jane Austen too much so that her contemporaries are overshadowed and they're actually these other great writers knocking around at the same time and we don't give them their due? Or is she in fact, you know, the Shakespeare to their Christopher Marlowe or however you want to.John Mullan (45:55)I think she's the Shakespeare to their Thomas Kidd or no even that's the... Yes, okay, I'm afraid that you know there are two contradictory answers to that. Yes, it does lead us to be unfair to her contemporaries certainly because they're so much less good than her. So because they're so much less good than her in a way we're not being unfair. know, I mean... because I have the profession I have, I have read a lot of novels by her immediate predecessors. I mean, people like Fanny Burnie, for instance, and her contemporaries, people like Mariah Edgeworth. And ⁓ if Jane Austen hadn't existed, they would get more airtime, I think, yes? And some of them are both Burnie and Edgeworth, for instance. ⁓ highly intelligent women who had a much more sophisticated sort of intellectual and social life than Jane Austen ⁓ and conversed with men and women of ideas and put some of those ideas in their fiction and they both wrote quite sophisticated novels and they were both more popular than Jane Austen and they both, having them for the sort of carpers and complainers, they've got all sorts of things like Mariah Regworth has some working-class people and they have political stuff in their novels and they have feminist or anti-feminist stuff in their novels and they're much more satisfying to the person who's got an essay to write in a way because they've got the social issues of the day in there a bit, certainly Mariah Regworth a lot. ⁓ So if Jane Austen hadn't come along we would show them I think more, give them more time. However, you know, I don't want to say this in a destructive way, but in a certain way, all that they wrote isn't worth one paragraph of Jane Austen, you know, in a way. So we're not wrong. I suppose the interesting case is the case of a man actually, which is Walter Scott, who sort of does overlap with Jane Austen a bit, you know, and who has published what I can't remember, two, three, even four novels by the time she dies, and I think three, and she's aware of him as a poet and I think beginning to be aware of him as a novelist. And he's the prime example of somebody who was in his own day, but for a long time afterwards, regarded as a great novelist of his day. And he's just gone. He's really, you know, you can get his books in know, Penguin and Oxford classics in the shops. I mean, it's at least in good big book shops. And it's not that he's not available, but it's a very rare person who's read more than one or even read one. I don't know if you read lots of Scott, Henry.Henry Oliver (49:07)Well, I've read some Scott and I quite like it, but I was a reactionary in my youth and I have a little flame for the Jacobite cause deep in my heart. This cannot be said of almost anyone who is alive today. 1745 means nothing to most people. The problem is that he was writing about something that has just been sort of forgotten. And so the novels, know, when Waverly takes the knee in front of the old young old pretender, whichever it is, who cares anymore? you know?John Mullan (49:40)Well, yes, but it can't just be that because he also wrote novels about Elizabeth I and Robin Hood and, you know... ⁓Henry Oliver (49:46)I do think Ivanhoe could be more popular, yeah.John Mullan (49:49)Yeah, so it's not just that this and when he wrote, for instance, when he published Old Mortality, which I think is one of his finest novels, I mean, I've read probably 10 Scott novels at nine or 10, you know, so that's only half or something of his of his output. And I haven't read one for a long time, actually. Sorry, probably seven or eight years. He wrote about some things, which even when he wrote about and published about, readers of the time couldn't have much known or cared about. mean, old mortalities about the Covenant as wars in the borderlands of Scotland in the 17th century. I mean, all those people in London who were buying it, they couldn't give a damn about that. Really, really, they couldn't. I mean, they might have recognized the postures of religious fanaticism that he describes rather well.But even then only rather distantly, I think. So I think it's not quite that. I think it's not so much ignorance now of the particular bits of history he was drawn to. I think it's that in the 19th century, historical fiction had a huge status. And it was widely believed that history was the most dignified topic for fiction and so dignified, it's what made fiction serious. So all 19th century authors had a go at it. Dickens had a go at it a couple of times, didn't he? I think it's no, yes, yes, think even Barnaby Rudge is actually, it's not just a tale of two cities. Yes, a terrific book. But generally speaking, ⁓ most Victorian novelists who did it, ⁓ they are amongst, you know, nobodyHenry Oliver (51:22)Very successfully. ⁓ a great book, great book.John Mullan (51:43)I think reads Trollope's La Vendée, you know, people who love Hardy as I do, do not rush to the trumpet major. it was a genre everybody thought was the big thing, know, war and peace after all. And then it's prestige faded. I mean, it's...returned a little bit in some ways in a sort of Hillary man, Tellish sort of way, but it had a hugely inflated status, I think, in the 19th century and that helped Scott. And Scott did, know, Scott is good at history, he's good at battles, he's terrific at landscapes, you know, the big bow wow strain as he himself described it.Henry Oliver (52:32)Are you up for a sort of quick fire round about other things than Jane Austen?John Mullan (52:43)Yes, sure, try me.Henry Oliver (52:44)Have you used any LLMs and are they good at talking about literature?John Mullan (52:49)I don't even know what an LLM is. What is it? Henry Oliver (52:51)Chat GPT. ⁓ John Mullan (53:17)⁓ God, goodness gracious, it's the work of Satan.Absolutely, I've never used one in my life. And indeed, have colleagues who've used them just to sort of see what it's like so that might help us recognise it if students are using them. And I can't even bring myself to do that, I'm afraid. But we do as a...As a department in my university, we have made some use of them purely in order to give us an idea of what they're like, so to help us sort of...Henry Oliver (53:28)You personally don't feel professionally obliged to see what it can tell you. Okay, no, that's fine. John Mullan (53:32)No, sorry.Henry Oliver (53:33)What was it like being a Booker Prize judge?heady. It was actually rather heady. Everybody talks about how it's such a slog, all those books, which is true. But when you're the Booker Prize judge, at least when I did it, you were treated as if you were somebody who was rather important. And then as you know, and that lasts for about six months. And you're sort of sent around in taxes and give nice meals and that sort of thing. And sort of have to give press conferences when you choose the shortlist. and I'm afraid my vanity was tickled by all that. And then at the moment after you've made the decision, you disappear. And the person who wins becomes important. It's a natural thing, it's good. And you realize you're not important at all.Henry Oliver (54:24)You've been teaching in universities, I think, since the 1990s.John Mullan (54:29)Yes, no earlier I fear, even earlier.Henry Oliver (54:32)What are the big changes? Is the sort of media narrative correct or is it more complicated than that?John Mullan (54:38)Well, it is more complicated, but sometimes things are true even though the Daily Telegraph says they're true, to quote George Orwell. ⁓ you know, I mean, I think in Britain, are you asking about Britain or are you asking more generally? Because I have a much more depressing view of what's happened in America in humanities departments.Henry Oliver (54:45)Well, tell us about Britain, because I think one problem is that the American story becomes the British story in a way. So what's the British story?John Mullan (55:07)Yes, yes, think that's true.Well, I think the British story is that we were in danger of falling in with the American story. The main thing that has happened, that has had a clear effect, was the introduction in a serious way, however long ago it was, 13 years or something, of tuition fees. And that's really, in my department, in my subject, that's had a major change.and it wasn't clear at first, but it's become very clear now. So ⁓ it means that the, as it were, the stance of the teachers to the taught and the taught to the teachers, both of those have changed considerably. Not just in bad ways, that's the thing. It is complicated. So for instance, I mean, you could concentrate on the good side of things, which is, think, I don't know, were you a student of English literature once?Henry Oliver (55:49)Mm-hmm.I was, I was. 2005, long time ago.John Mullan (56:07)Yes. OK.Well, I think that's not that long ago. mean, probably the change is less extreme since your day than it is since my day. But compared to when I was a student, which was the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, I was an undergraduate. The degree of sort of professionalism and sobriety, responsibility and diligence amongst English literature academics has improved so much.You know, you generally speaking, literature academics, they are not a load of ⁓ drunken wastrels or sort of predatory seducers or lazy, work shy, ⁓ even if they love their own research, negligent teachers or a lot of the sort of the things which even at the time I recognise as the sort of bad behaviour aspects of some academics. Most of that's just gone. It's just gone. You cannot be like that because you've got everybody's your institution is totally geared up to sort of consumer feedback and and the students, especially if you're not in Oxford or Cambridge, the students are essentially paying your salaries in a very direct way. So there have been improvements actually. ⁓ those improvements were sort of by the advocates of tuition fees, I think, and they weren't completely wrong. However, there have also been some real downsides as well. ⁓ One is simply that the students complain all the time, you know, and in our day we had lots to complain about and we never complained. Now they have much less to complain about and they complain all the time. ⁓ So, and that seems to me to have sort of weakened the relationship of trust that there should be between academics and students. But also I would say more if not optimistically, at least stoically. I've been in this game for a long time and the waves of student fashion and indignation break on the shore and then another one comes along a few years later. And as a sort of manager in my department, because I'm head of my department, I've learned to sort of play the long game.And what everybody's hysterical about one moment, one year, they will have forgotten about two or three years later. So there has been a certain, you know, there was a, you know, what, what, you know, some conservative journalists would call kind of wokery. There has been some of that. But in a way, there's always been waves of that. And the job of academics is sort of to stand up to it. and in a of calm way. Tuition fees have made it more difficult to do that I think.Henry Oliver (59:40)Yeah. Did you know A.S. Byatt? What was she like?John Mullan (59:43)I did.⁓ Well...When you got to know her, you recognized that the rather sort of haughty almost and sometimes condescending apparently, ⁓ intellectual auteur was of course a bit of a front. Well, it wasn't a front, but actually she was quite a vulnerable person, quite a sensitive and easily upset person.I mean that as a sort of compliment, not easily upset in the sense that sort of her vanity, but actually she was quite a humanly sensitive person and quite woundable. And when I sort of got to know that aspect of her, know, unsurprisingly, I found myself liking her very much more and actually not worrying so much about the apparent sort of put downs of some other writers and things and also, you know, one could never have said this while she was alive even though she often talked about it. I think she was absolutely permanently scarred by the death of her son and I think that was a, you know, who was run over when he was what 11 years old or something. He may have been 10, he may have been 12, I've forgotten, but that sort of age. I just think she was I just think she was permanently lacerated by that. And whenever I met her, she always mentioned it somehow, if we were together for any length of time.Henry Oliver (1:01:27)What's your favourite Iris Murdoch novel?John Mullan (1:01:33)I was hoping you were going to say which is the most absurd Aris Murdoch novel. ⁓ No, you're an Aris Murdoch fan, are you? Henry Oliver (1:01:38)Very much so. You don't like her work?John Mullan (1:01:59)Okay. ⁓ no, it's, as you would say, Henry, more complicated than that. I sort of like it and find it absurd. It's true. I've only read, re-read in both cases, two in the last 10 years. And that'sThat's not to my credit. And both times I thought, this is so silly. I reread the C to C and I reread a severed head. And I just found them both so silly. ⁓ I was almost, you know, I almost lost my patience with them. But I should try another. What did I used to like? Did I rather like an accidental man? I fear I did.Did I rather like the bell, which is surely ridiculous. I fear I did. Which one should I like the most?Henry Oliver (1:02:38)I like The Sea, the Sea very much. ⁓ I think The Good Apprentice is a great book. There are these, so after The Sea, the Sea, she moves into her quote unquote late phase and people don't like it, but I do like it. So The Good Apprentice and The Philosopher's Pupil I think are good books, very good books.John Mullan (1:02:40)I've not read that one, I'm afraid. Yes, I stopped at the sea to sea. I, you know, once upon a time, I'm a bit wary of it and my experience of rereading A Severed Head rather confirmed me in my wariness because rereading, if I were to reread Myris Murdoch, I'm essentially returning to my 18 year old self because I read lots of Myris Murdoch when I was 17, 18, 19 and I thought she was deep as anything. and to me she was the deep living British novelist. And I think I wasn't alone ⁓ and I feel a little bit chastened by your advocacy of her because I've also gone along with the ⁓ general readership who've slightly decided to ditch Irish Murdoch. her stock market price has sunk hugely ⁓ since her death. But perhaps that's unfair to her, I don't know. I've gone a bit, I'll try again, because I recently have reread two or three early Margaret Drabble novels and found them excellent, really excellent. And thought, ⁓ actually, I wasn't wrong to like these when I was a teenager. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:04:11)The Millstone is a great book.John Mullan (1:04:22)⁓ yes and actually yes I reread that, I reread the Garrick year, the Millstone's terrific I agree, the the Garrick year is also excellent and Jerusalem the Golden, I reread all three of them and and and thought they were very good. So so you're recommending the Philosopher's Apprentice. I'm yeah I'm conflating yes okay.Henry Oliver (1:04:31)first rate. The Good Apprentice and the Philosopher's Pupil. Yeah, yeah. I do agree with you about A Severed Head. I think that book's crazy. What do you like about Patricia Beer's poetry?John Mullan (1:04:56)⁓ I'm not sure I am a great fan of Patricia Beer's poetry really. I got the job of right, what? Yes, yes, because I was asked to and I said, I've read some of her poetry, but you know, why me? And the editor said, because we can't find anybody else to do it. So that's why I did it. And it's true that I came.Henry Oliver (1:05:02)Well, you wrote her... You wrote her dictionary of national... Yes.John Mullan (1:05:23)I came to quite like it and admire some of it because in order to write the article I read everything she'd ever published. But that was a while ago now, Henry, and I'm not sure it puts me in a position to recommend her.Henry Oliver (1:05:35)Fair enough.Why is the Dunciad the greatest unread poem in English?John Mullan (1:05:41)Is it the greatest unread one? Yes, probably, yes, yes, I think it is. Okay, it's great because, first of all, great, then unread. It's great because, well, Alexander Poet is one of the handful of poetic geniuses ever, in my opinion, in the writing in English. Absolutely genius, top shelf. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:05:46)Well, you said that once, yes.Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Top shelf, yeah.John Mullan (1:06:09)And even his most accessible poetry, however, is relatively inaccessible to today's readers, sort of needs to be taught, or at least you have to introduce people to. Even the Rape of the Lock, which is a pure delight and the nearest thing to an ABBA song he ever wrote, is pretty scary with its just densely packed elusiveness and...Henry Oliver (1:06:27)YouJohn Mullan (1:06:38)You know, and as an A level examiner once said to me, we don't set Pope for A level because it's full of irony and irony is unfair to candidates. ⁓ Which is true enough. ⁓ So Pope's already difficult. ⁓ Poetry of another age, poetry which all depends on ideas of word choice and as I said, literary allusion and The Dunciad is his most compacted, elusive, dense, complicated and bookish poems of a writer who's already dense and compact and bookish and elusive. And the Dunceyad delights in parodying, as I'm sure you know, all the sort of habits of scholarly emendation and encrustation, which turn what should be easy to approach works of literature into sort of, you know, heaps of pedantic commentary. And he parodies all that with delight. But I mean, that's quite a hard ask, isn't it? And ⁓ yeah, and I just and I think everything about the poem means that it's something you can only ever imagine coming to it through an English literature course, actually. I think it is possible to do that. I came to it through being taught it very well and, you know, through because I was committed for three years to study English literature, but it's almost inconceivable that somebody could just sort of pick it up in a bookshop and think, ⁓ this is rather good fun. I'll buy this.Henry Oliver (1:08:26)Can we end with one quick question about Jane Austen since it's her birthday? A lot of people come to her books later. A lot of people love it when they're young, but a lot of people start to love it in their 20s or 30s. And yet these novels are about being young. What's going on there?John Mullan (1:08:29)Sure, sure.Yes.I fear, no not I fear, I think that what you describe is true of many things, not just Jane Austen. You know, that there's a wonderful passage in J.M. Coetzee's novel Disgrace where the reprehensible protagonist is teaching Wordsworth's Prelude.to a group of 19 and 20 year olds. And he adores it. He's in his mid fifties. And he, whilst he's talking, is thinking different things. And what he's thinking is something that I often think actually about certain works I teach, particularly Jane Austen, which is this book is all about being young, but the young find it tedious. Only the aging.You know, youth is wasted on the young, as it were. Only the aging really get its brilliance about the experience of being young. And I think that's a sort of pattern in quite a lot of literature. So, you know, take Northanger Abbey. That seems to me to be a sort of disly teenage book in a way.It's everything and everybody's in a hurry. Everybody's in a whirl. Catherine's in a whirl all the time. She's 17 years old. And it seems to me a delightfully teenage-like book. And if you've read lots of earlier novels, mostly by women, about girls in their, you know, nice girls in their teens trying to find a husband, you know, you realize that sort ofextraordinary magical gift of sort Jane Austen's speed and sprightliness. You know, somebody said to me recently, ⁓ when Elizabeth Bennet sort of walks, but she doesn't walk, she sort of half runs across the fields. You know, not only is it socially speaking, no heroine before her would have done it, but the sort of the sprightliness with which it's described putsthe sort of ploddingness of all fiction before her to shame. And there's something like that in Northanger Abbey. It's about youthfulness and it takes on some of the qualities of the youthfulness of its heroine. know, her wonderful oscillations between folly and real insight. You know, how much she says this thing. I think to marry for money is wicked. Whoa. And you think,Well, Jane Austen doesn't exactly think that. She doesn't think Charlotte Lucas is wicked, surely. But when Catherine says that, there's something wonderful about it. There is something wonderful. You know, only a 17 year old could say it, but she does. And but I appreciate that now in my 60s. I don't think I appreciated it when I was in my teens.Henry Oliver (1:11:55)That's a lovely place to end. John Mullen, thank you very much.John Mullan (1:11:58)Thanks, it's been a delight, a delight. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

Are you obsessed with Jane Austen's books? Then come listen to an insightful and fun conversation with Professor John Mullan. It's the next best thing to meeting Jane Austen in person. John Mullan is Professor of Modern English Literature at University College London. He has published widely on eighteenth and nineteenth-century literature, his books include The Artful Dickens. He has edited Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility and Emma for Oxford World's Classics. He is also a broadcaster and journalist, writing on contemporary fiction for the Guardian. He has taught Austen to university students for over three decades, and has lectured widely to lovers of her fiction in both the UK and the US. In this captivating conversation, Maki Morris (In the Bookroom with Maki) speaks with Professor John Mullan about his insights into Jane Austen's works. They explore the themes of Austen's novels, the significance of weather, the unique characteristics of characters who never speak, and the process of writing about such a beloved author. Mullan shares his favorite chapters from his book, discusses the importance of adaptations, and offers recommendations for those new to Austen's literature. The conversation highlights the enduring legacy of Jane Austen and the excitement surrounding her 250th birthday.

Are you obsessed with Jane Austen's books? Then come listen to an insightful and fun conversation with Professor John Mullan. It's the next best thing to meeting Jane Austen in person. John Mullan is Professor of Modern English Literature at University College London. He has published widely on eighteenth and nineteenth-century literature, his books include The Artful Dickens. He has edited Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility and Emma for Oxford World's Classics. He is also a broadcaster and journalist, writing on contemporary fiction for the Guardian. He has taught Austen to university students for over three decades, and has lectured widely to lovers of her fiction in both the UK and the US. In this captivating conversation, Maki Morris (In the Bookroom with Maki) speaks with Professor John Mullan about his insights into Jane Austen's works. They explore the themes of Austen's novels, the significance of weather, the unique characteristics of characters who never speak, and the process of writing about such a beloved author. Mullan shares his favorite chapters from his book, discusses the importance of adaptations, and offers recommendations for those new to Austen's literature. The conversation highlights the enduring legacy of Jane Austen and the excitement surrounding her 250th birthday.

Dominic is joined by returning guest, the inimitable Professor John Mullan: author of What Matters in Jane Austen? (now released in a 250th Birthday Edition) and The Artful Dickens - both published by Bloomsbury PressIn a lively chat, John sheds light on the tricks, devices and styles of these two incredible writers: Jane Austen and Charles Dickens ...And in case you haven't heard John's previous conversation on Great Expectations we thoroughly recommend you scroll back to Episode 5 of this series also! Support the showIf you'd like to make a donation to support the costs of producing this series you can buy 'coffees' right here https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dominicgerrardThank you so much!Host: Dominic GerrardSeries Artwork: Léna GibertOriginal Music: Dominic GerrardThank you for listening!

“There is one thing, Emma, which a man can always do, if he chooses, and that is his duty." —Mr. KnightleyWe believe Jane Austen is for everyone, but it's no secret that her modern fanbase is predominantly female. But why is that, and what might men be missing? Brett McKay joins us in this episode to share how he first discovered Austen's work and why more men should read her books. Along the way, we touch on Austen's Aristotelian ideas of virtue, the qualities that make a good man, the importance of choosing the right spouse, and how reading her works can help everyone become the best version of themselves.Brett McKay is the founder of The Art of Manliness, a website and podcast dedicated to helping men “grow up well, reach their potential, and become better friends, mentors, husbands, fathers, and citizens.” Since 2008 he has interviewed hundreds of authors and scholars on a wide range of subjects, from philosophy to weight-lifting, dinner-party planning to hostage negotiation. In 2023, he interviewed Austen scholar John Mullan in an episode entitled “Jane Austen for Dudes.” For a transcript and show notes, visit https://jasna.org/austen/podcast/ep25/.*********Visit our website: www.jasna.orgFollow us on Instagram and FacebookSubscribe to the podcast on our YouTube channelEmail: podcast@jasna.org

On the 250th anniversary of the birth of Jane Austen, we'll discuss her life and legacy.Featuring: Lizzie Dunford, director of the Jane Austen House museum, John Mullan, author of the book What Matters in Jane Austen?, and Janet Todd of the University of Cambridge.

She wrote some of the most enduring romances in literature. But what did Jane Austen really know about love ... and sex?From longing looks and flirtation, to seduction and elopement, in this episode we're investigating how much of Jane Austen's works was based on experience.Kate is joined by John Mullan, Lord Northcliffe Professor of Modern English Literature at University College London and author of 'What Matters in Jane Austen?'Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.Betwixt the Sheets: History of Sex, Scandal & Society is a History Hit podcast.

Wäre Jane Austen eine gute Krimi-Autorin geworden? Was macht "Emma" heute noch so besonders? Und warum gilt der Roman noch immer als Klassikerin? Diese Fragen besprechen wir mit dem Austen-Experten John Mullan. John Mullan ist Professor für Englische Literatur am University College London. Sein Buch "What Matters in Jane Austen?" geht 20 Rätseln in Jane Austens Büchern auf die Spur. Seine vielen Talks vermitteln nicht nur das Genie von Austen, sondern auch die Freude, die es bereitet, ihre Bücher zu lesen - egal ob als Leser*in oder Akademiker*in. Mehr dazu: "A Close Look at Jane Austen's Genius: A Visit with John Mullan", Austen Chat Podcast (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BbTg_cRG38 John Mullan über Austens Heldinnen, Idler Academy (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP_yIu_d6uI&t=336s "Jane Austen vs Emily Brontë: The Queens of English Literature Debate with Dominic West", Intelligence Squared (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP8dllTkpEg&t=5598s John Mullan, "Pride and Prejudice: Character and Contradiction", Jane Austen's House (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz-2aifHZQE&t=2423s John Mullan beim Hay Festival über "Mansfield Park" (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi3lQz7d-dU&t=3306s John Mullan zu Free Indirect Style, Connell Guide (Youtube), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k087iZazynQ

This year we're celebrating 250th anniversary of the birth of Jane Austen.Today we sit down with John Mullan about his book What Matters in Jane Austen?, which has just been re-released by Bloomsbury Publishing.What Matters in Jane Austen?https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/what-matters-in-jane-austen-9781526693945/ (UK)https://www.amazon.com/What-Matters-Jane-Austen-Crucial/dp/1620400421/ (USA)The Artful Dickens: The Tricks and Ploys of the Great Novelisthttps://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/artful-dickens-9781408866825/ (UK)https://www.amazon.com/Artful-Dickens-Tricks-Ploys-Novelist/dp/1408866811/ (USA)Find Baroque:https://www.ifitaintbaroquepodcast.art/https://www.reignoflondon.com/https://substack.com/@ifitaintbaroquepodcastSupport Baroque:https://www.patreon.com/c/Ifitaintbaroquepodcast/https://buymeacoffee.com/ifitaintbaroqueIf you would like to join Natalie on her walking tours in London with Reign of London:Saxons to Stuarts:https://www.getyourguide.com/london-l57/london-the-royal-british-kings-and-queens-walking-tour-t426011/Stuarts to Windsors:https://www.getyourguide.com/london-l57/royal-london-georgian-and-windsor-monarchs-walking-tour-t481355 .For more history fodder please visit https://www.ifitaintbaroquepodcast.art/ and https://www.reignoflondon.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jane Austen created the definitive picture of Georgian England. No writer matches Austen's sensitive ear for the hypocrisy and irony lurking beneath the genteel conversation. That's the argument of the Janeites, but to the aficionados of Emily Brontë they are the misguided worshippers of a circumscribed mind. In Wuthering Heights, Brontë dispensed with Austen's niceties and the upper-middle class drawing rooms of Bath and the home counties. Her backdrop is the savage Yorkshire moors, her subject the all-consuming passions of the heart. To help you decide who should be crowned queen of English letters we have the lined up the best advocates to make the case for each writer. In this event, chaired by author and critic Erica Wagner, we invited guests including author Kate Mosse, Professor and author John Mullan, and actors Mariah Gale, Samuel West and Dominic West, to discuss each writer's influence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

John Mullan and Caroline Frost join Tom to review Steven Knight's new historical drama A Thousand Blows, Nicolas Hytner's production of Richard II staring Jonathan Bailey and novel Perspectives by Laurent BinetPresenter: Tom Sutcliffe Producer: Ciaran Bermingham

Happy 2025! This year marks Jane Austen's 250th birthday, and we are delighted to kick off the celebration with professor and author John Mullan as our guest. This month we delve into passages from the four novels published during Austen's lifetime and discuss what the details reveal about her genius as a writer. Join us for this fascinating and insightful episode! John Mullan is Lord Northcliffe Chair of Modern English Literature at University College London. Specializing in eighteenth- and nineteenth century literature, he is a frequent guest on radio and TV and lectures widely. He also writes on contemporary fiction for the Guardian and was a judge for the 2009 Man Booker Prize. John is the author of The Artful Dickens, What Matters in Jane Austen?, Anonymity: A Secret History of English Literature, and How Novels Work and has edited the Oxford World Classics editions of Sense and Sensibility and Emma as well as a number of works by Daniel Defoe and Samuel Johnson's Lives of the Poets. For a transcript and show notes, visit https://jasna.org/austen/podcast/ep19.Visit our website: www.jasna.orgFollow us on Instagram and FacebookSubscribe to the podcast on our YouTube channelEmail: podcast@jasna.org

Welcome to CHRISTMAS at Charles Dickens: A Brain on Fire!

Tom Sutcliffe is joined by academic and critic John Mullan and Elodie Harper, the bestselling author of The Wolf Den Trilogy for the Front Row review show. They discuss Jeff Goldblum as a modern-day Zeus in the series Kaos, Rachel Kushner's thriller Creation Lake, which has been longlisted for this year's Booker Prize, and the historical drama Firebrand, staring Jude Law as Henry VIII and Alicia Vikander as his 6th wife Catherine Parr. Plus Jason Solomons reveals his top picks from the Venice Film Festival.Presenter: Tom Sutcliffe Producer: Claire Bartleet

Executive Producer Sam Dolan and I discuss INSP's Into The Wild Frontier and the episode, John Mullan: RoadBuilder of the West

Knife is Salman Rushdie's memoir about surviving a near-fatal knife attack in August 2022 and the long, painful period of recovery that followed. Ben Power's adaption of the Dickens novel Our Mutual Friend – London Tide – which features songs that he co-wrote with PJ Harvey, has just opened at the National Theatre in London. Baby Reindeer is a new Netflix drama written by and starring Richard Gadd who drew directly on his own shocking experience of being stalked. All three are reviewed by Tahmima Anam and John Mullan.We also hear from tenor Ian Bostridge on mobile phone use in concert halls and why he stopped a performance of Britten's Les Illuminations with the CBSO last night.Presenter: Tom Sutcliffe Producer: Corinna Jones

A new series of Charles Dickens: A Brain on Fire!

Welcome to Christmas at Charles Dickens a Brain on Fire!At midnight tonight - London time - the very first of our special Christmas episodes will go live. And If you're new to this series, there are some incredible episodes already waiting for you to listen to. Interviews with leading actors, academics, writers, historians, and descendants of the great man him self!Guests such as: Stephen Fry, Miriam Margolyes, Armando Iannucci, Rosie Holt, John Mullan, Lucinda Hawksley, Robert Douglas Fairhurst, Andrew Davies & Alice Loxton … and many many more!I hope you have as much fun listening to these episodes this Christmas, as I have the honour to record them … So wherever in the world you're listening from ... MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!DominicSupport the showIf you like to make a donation to support the costs of producing this series you can buy 'coffees' right here https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dominicgerrardHost: Dominic GerrardSeries Artwork: Léna GibertOriginal Music: Dominic GerrardThank you for listening!

The Killer, starring Michael Fassbender, has been hailed as a return to tense and stylish form for the director David Fincher. Critics Rhianna Dhillon and John Mullan join Tom Sutcliffe to give their views on this new take on the assassin genre. They also venture into uncanny realms with a review of Fantasy: Realms of Imagination, a new exhibition at the British Library which charts tales of fairies, folklore and flights of fancy from Ancient Greece to the modern day. Comedian and gamer Ellie Gibson gives her round up of the cornucopia of new video games out this month, including the Playstation's fastest ever seller Spider-Man 2 and family favourite Super Mario Bros Wonder. Presenter: Tom Sutcliffe Producer: Harry Parker

In this episode, we read chapters 27 to 31 of Emma. We talk about the entwined group of people who visit one another, how so many scenes read differently the second time through, Miss Bates's monologues, Jane and the piano, reactions to the plan of having a ball, and Emma encouraging Harriet to stop thinking about Mr Elton. The character we discuss is Harriet Smith, and Ellen talks about illegitimacy. In the popular culture section, Harriet talks about the 1995 modernisation Clueless.Also, we are now on Instagram, at reading_jane_austen.Things we mention:General discussion:John Mullan, What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (2012)Character discussion:Edith Lank, ‘“The word was blunder”: Who was Harriet Smith's Mother?‘ Persuasions 7, 1985: 14-15Helena Kelly, Jane Austen, the Secret Radical (2016)Historical discussion:Max Weber (1864-1920)Claire Tomalin, Charles Dickens (2011)Christine Kenyon Jones, ‘Ambiguous Cousinship: Mansfield Park and the Mansfield Family‘ Persuasions On-line 31 (1), 2010BBC, Olivia Colman episode of Who Do You Think You Are (2018), Season 15, Episode 2Popular culture discussion:Main version considered:Paramount Pictures, Clueless (1995) – starring Alicia Silverstone and Paul RuddOther 1990s/2000s high school films based on classic literature10 Things I Hate About You (1999), based on The Taming of the ShrewCruel Intentions(1999), based on Les Liaisons dangereusesShe's All That (1999), based on Pygmalion / My Fair LadyO (2001), based on OthelloShe's the Man(2006), based on Twelfth NightEasy A (2010), based on The Scarlet Letter For a list of music used, see this episode on our website.   

This is the second instalment of a three-part episode. Dickens. Tolstoy. Their names and reputations shake the ground – and so do their books, if you drop one. But whose legacy is more enduring? Whose vision truer and more relevant today? Should you embark on War and Peace or Our Mutual Friend? To battle it out, in 2018 Intelligence Squared brought two celebrated writers, John Mullan for Dickens and Simon Schama for Tolstoy, to our stage. They called on a cast of star actors, including Tom Hiddleston, to bring their arguments to life with readings from the authors' finest works. The debate was chaired by author, playwright and broadcaster Bonnie Greer. We'd love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be.  Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2.  And if you'd like to get ad-free access to all Intelligence Squared podcasts, including exclusive bonus content, early access to new episodes and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today for just £4.99, or the equivalent in your local currency .  Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dickens. Tolstoy. Their names and reputations shake the ground – and so do their books, if you drop one. But whose legacy is more enduring? Whose vision truer and more relevant today? Should you embark on War and Peace or Our Mutual Friend? To battle it out, in 2018 Intelligence Squared brought two celebrated writers, John Mullan for Dickens and Simon Schama for Tolstoy, to our stage. They called on a cast of star actors, including Tom Hiddleston, to bring their arguments to life with readings from the authors' finest works. The debate was chaired by author, playwright and broadcaster Bonnie Greer. This is the first instalment of a three-part episode. We'd love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be.  Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2.  And if you'd like to get ad-free access to all Intelligence Squared podcasts, including exclusive bonus content, early access to new episodes and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today for just £4.99, or the equivalent in your local currency .  Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we are joined by Harriet's partner, Michael, and read chapters 16 to 21 of Emma. We talk about the mystery plots, Emma's fantasies, Emma and Mr Knightley's interactions, and Harriet's encounter with Mr Martin (which had us revisiting the map of Highbury).The character we discuss is Miss Bates, and then Michael talks about army widows and orphans. In the popular culture section, Harriet talks about the 2009 BBC adaptation of Emma.Things we mention:General discussion:John Mullan, What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (2012)Map of Highbury, created by Professor Penny Gay of the University of Sydney, and reproduced with her permission. The map was drawn in the 1980s and published in Penny Gay's work Jane Austen's Emma (Horizon Studies in Literature) Sydney University Press, 1995. More information about it is available in ‘A Hypothetical Map of Highbury‘, Persuasions Online, Volume 36, No. 1, Winter 2015.Character discussion:Elizabeth Gaskell, Cranford (1853)Agatha Christie's books and stories featuring Miss MarpleLucy F. March Phillipps, My life and what shall I do with it? By an old maid (1918)Mary Russell Mitford, Letter to W.W. Ogbourn (April 3, 1815) – read the extract about Jane AustenDorothy L. Sayers, Gaudy Night (1935)Popular culture discussion:Main version considered:BBC, Emma (2009) – starring Romola Garai and Jonny Lee MillerOther versions mentionedBBC, Emma (1972) – starring Doran Godwin and John CarsonMiramax, Emma (1996) – starring Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy NorthamITV, Emma (1996) – starring Kate Beckinsale and Mark Strong For a list of music used, see this episode on our website.  

In this episode, we read chapters 11 to 15 of Emma. We talk about the introduction of John and Isabella Knightley, how Emma really doesn't understand the social world, the clash between Isabella and Mr Woodhouse about health – and how Emma and Mr Knightley are running interference – and the way in which the Frank/Jane plot is beginning to be introduced before the Harriet/Mr Elton plot is resolved.The character we discuss is Mr Elton, and then Ellen talks about apothecaries. In the popular culture section, Harriet talks about the 1996 ITV telemovie adaptation of Emma.Things we mention:General discussion:Google Map of Emma locationsCharacter discussion:John Mullan, What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (2012)Historical discussion:Irvine Loudon. 1986. Medical Care and the General Practitioner, 1750-1850. (1986)S W F Holloway, ‘The Apothecaries' Act of 1815: A Reinterpretation.' Medical History 10, 1966: 107-29, 221-36Popular culture discussion:Main version considered:ITV, Emma (1996) – starring Kate Beckinsale and Mark StrongOther versions mentionedBBC, Emma (1972) – starring Doran Godwin and John CarsonMiramax, Emma (1996) – starring Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy NorthamCreative commons music used:Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 12 in F Major, ii. Adagio.Extract from Joseph Haydn, Piano Sonata No. 38. Performance by Ivan Ilić, recorded in Manchester in December, 2006. File originally from IMSLP.Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 13 in B-Flat Major, iii. Allegretto Grazioso. File originally from Musopen.Extract from George Frideric Handel, Suite I, No. 2 in F Major, ii. Allegro. File originally from Musopen.Extract from Ludwig van Beethoven, Piano Sonata No. 28 in A major. File originally from Musopen.

More than anything else, the end matters to the novel reader. Novelists, including Austen and Dickens, sometimes changed their minds about their endings, using these changes of mind to explore how an ending satisfies, or fails to satisfy, our expectations.The lecture will explore the rise of the indeterminate ending, from Henry James on. And it will suggest how an ending can, for worse as well as for better, retrospectively change our experience of a novel.A lecture by John Mullan recorded on 5 April 2023 at Barnard's Inn Hall, London.The transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/endings-novelGresham College has offered free public lectures for over 400 years, thanks to the generosity of our supporters. There are currently over 2,500 lectures free to access. We believe that everyone should have the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest minds. To support Gresham's mission, please consider making a donation: https://gresham.ac.uk/support/Website:  https://gresham.ac.ukTwitter:  https://twitter.com/greshamcollegeFacebook: https://facebook.com/greshamcollegeInstagram: https://instagram.com/greshamcollegeSupport the show

Until the 1970s, historical fiction was a scorned genre that belonged to Georgette Heyer and Jean Plaidy. Over recent decades, literary fiction has turned back to History, from Hilary Mantel's Thomas Cromwell trilogy to Helen Dunmore, Francis Spufford and Eleanor Catton. In the nineteenth century the historical novel had been more respected, with examples (sometimes impressive, sometimes absurd) from Scott, Dickens, and George Eliot.This lecture will examine the genre's vicissitudes (while noticing Georgette Heyer's novelistic virtues).A lecture by John Mullan recorded on 1 March 2023 at Barnard's Inn Hall, London.The transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/historical-fictionGresham College has offered free public lectures for over 400 years, thanks to the generosity of our supporters. There are currently over 2,500 lectures free to access. We believe that everyone should have the opportunity to learn from some of the greatest minds. To support Gresham's mission, please consider making a donation: https://gresham.ac.uk/support/Website:  https://gresham.ac.ukTwitter:  https://twitter.com/greshamcollegeFacebook: https://facebook.com/greshamcollegeInstagram: https://instagram.com/greshamcollegeSupport the show

General: Murder In Old Bombay. Captain Jim and Lady Diana Mysteries Book One. From Macmillan books. https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250269546/murderinoldbombay And on audio https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Murder-in-Old-Bombay-Audiobook/1250775043?qid=1673616961&sr=1-2&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_2&pf_rd_p=c6e316b8-14da-418d-8f91-b3cad83c5183&pf_rd_r=YJ45A8E0Q4ZC1DX4Y7RN&pageLoadId=5U11lQEHJx2bK4W0&creativeId=41e85e98-10b8-40e2-907d-6b663f04a42d Peril At the Exposition. Captain Jim and Lady Diana Mysteries Book Two. From MacMillan books https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855046/perilattheexposition And on audio https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Peril-at-the-Exposition-Audiobook/B09GC69JCB?qid=1673616961&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=c6e316b8-14da-418d-8f91-b3cad83c5183&pf_rd_r=YJ45A8E0Q4ZC1DX4Y7RN&pageLoadId=5U11lQEHJx2bK4W0&creativeId=41e85e98-10b8-40e2-907d-6b663f04a42dhttps://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855060 The Spanish Diplomat's Secret. Book Three in the series, to be released later this year: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250855060 Nev March's website: https://nevmarch.com/ Follow: Follow Nev on Twitter: https://twitter.com/nevmarch On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NevMarch/ References: Nev's previous appearance on the podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/116-nev-march-murder-in-old-bombay/id1417717946?i=1000548023723 The Chicago World's Fair legacy site https://worldsfairchicago1893.com/ John Mullan's book on Dickens https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/artful-dickens-9781408866818/ John Mullan's interview with Iona https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/136-john-mullan/id1417717946?i=1000587632804 Vaseem Khan's website and books can be found at https://vaseemkhan.com/ Time stamps: 1.01 Opening and introductions. 2.25 The Chicago World's Fair 1893 as a setting for the novel. Nev describes how the events provide a background for the beginnings of the political polarization that we see today. 6.00 Iona alludes to the influences of writers such as Dickens and Wilkie Collins on the novels with additional reference to John Mullan's work on Dickens. 14.08 Iona reads an excerpt from the book. 21.22 The real-life events featured in the book. The plight of poor and immigrant workers at the time and the complex morality of their employers in a precarious financial market. The way in which current situations across the world and within the USA itself are reflected in the challenges faced by the protagonists in the novel. 28.40 The immigrant experience in real life and for the protagonists, Diana and Jim. 32.55 Identity and belonging as separate. How the character Jim's maturity is evident in this second novel when compared to the first. 44.06 Iona reads another passage. 47.51 Nev discusses her desire to portray Diana and Jim's sex life through a historically accurate lens. The dangers of childbirth for women, both historically and in present day America and across the world. 57.20 How ahistorical representations of sexual relationships in novels and media produced today can be jarring. The way in which Jim's background and experience as an illegitimate child informs his behavior around sex and demonstrates his moral character. 1.02.20 Nev's third book of the series, The Spanish Diplomat's Secret, will be released in Autumn / Winter 2023. This time, the couple will be on board a liner sailing across the Atlantic towards Liverpool. 1.07.02 Nev gives some advice for budding writers including reading a variety of genres and using lists to free up brain space, allowing room for joy in writing. 1.10.37 Final reading from Iona. 1.12.18 Thanks and outro.

Years ago, I was flipping through TV channels and came across Hugh Laurie, of Dr. House fame, decked out in 19th-century English gentleman garb. Because I was a House fan, I was curious about what Hugh Laurie sounded like with his native British accent, so I paused my channel surfing to find out.Then I brought up the title and saw that I was watching Sense and Sensibility. "Ugh. Jane Austen. No way I would enjoy that," I thought. I associated Jane Austen with foo-fooey lady stuff. So my plan was to flip the channel as soon as I heard Dr. House talk British.Two hours later, the end credits for Sense and Sensibility scrolled down the screen. I had watched the entire thing. Didn't even get up to go the bathroom.Not only did I watch the whole movie, I remember thinking, "Man, that was really good."Thanks to Dr. House, my resistance to Austen was broken, and I found myself genuinely curious about her books. So I got the free version of her collected works and slowly started working my way through what are arguably her three best: Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, and Emma. And I'll be darned if I didn't truly enjoy them all.If you're a dude who's written off Jane Austen's work as I once did, perhaps today's podcast will convince you that there's something in it for women and men alike and encourage you to give her novels a try. My guest is John Mullan, a professor of English and the author of What Matters in Jane Austen? John and I discuss the literary innovation Austen pioneered that influenced the likes of Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove and will give your social agility a healthy workout. John then explains why soldiers and Winston Churchill turned to Austen during the world wars. We also discuss the philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre's argument that Austen's work was "the last great representative of the classical tradition of virtues," Austen's idea of manliness, and how a man's choice of a wife will shape his character. And John shares his recommendation for which Austen novel men should read first.Resources Related to the EpisodeAoM Article: Why Every Man Should Read Jane AustenEditions of Jane Austen's works available in the public domainEditions of Sense and Sensibility and Emmawith introductions by JohnAoM Podcast #824: Lonesome Dove and Life's Journey Through UncertaintyRudyard Kipling's short story "The Janeites"After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyreConnect With John MullanJohn's Faculty PageListen to the Podcast! (And don't forget to leave us a review!)

What is it about Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol that has enchanted the public since its publication in 1843? Few people are as well placed to answer that question than John Mullan and Simon Callow. Mullan is a professor of English literature, whose recent book, The Artful Dickens, reveals the tricks and ploys of this most eccentric of literary geniuses. Callow, renowned actor, director and author, has written two books on Dickens, portrayed him on film and television, and has been thrilling audiences since 2011 with his sold-out one-man performances of A Christmas Carol.  Mullan and Callow join us on the podcast to celebrate this most beloved of Dickens' stories and discuss how a work which Dickens originally intended to be a political tract about the misery of the Victorian poor became one of the most enduring Christmas classics.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

General Visit John's academic webpage for more information on his publications: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/english/people/john-mullan John's book ‘What Matters in Jane Austen: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved': https://www.amazon.com/What-Matters-Jane-Austen-Crucial/dp/B00BNI1Z8Y Jane Austen's books: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/68 References Iona's Areo article ‘Writing Wrongs: Why Academics Write So Badly and How That Hurts Them': https://areomagazine.com/2020/07/06/writing-wrongs-why-academics-write-so-badly-and-how-that-hurts-them/ Timestamps 0:00 Opening and introduction, with some remarks on obscurity and lucidity in academic writing. 3:30 Austen as revolutionary literary stylist: Iona reads from John's book on her. 8:15 Iona reads a passage from Austen's ‘Persuasion'. 12:11 John discusses Austen's techniques in this passage, particularly her innovation in creating free indirect style. 21:03 Iona reads the next couple of paragraphs of ‘Persuasion'; further discussion of Austen's subtle techniques and themes follows. 30:20 The importance of male sexuality in Austen (“in want of a wife”). 38:46 Austen's underrated comic genius. 47:00 More on Austen's men: rakes, celibates, and premarital sex. 54:25 Marriage, sex, and finality in Austen (and marriage as permanent fate in literature more generally). 1:05:00 Idiolects and character in Austen (and the controversy over Austen on the ten pound note). 1:14:20 Austen's writing is both very simple and richly complex. 1:18:31 The importance of “impossible!” in Austen. 1:19:21 John's advice for re-reading Austen and some final reflections on her work. 1:23:11 Last words and outro.

In this episode we hear some of the highlights of Telstra chairman John Mullan's statements at this week's AGM and we talk about the news of the week with CommsDay chief editor Simon Dux

Michael Winterbottom discusses writing and directing a SKY TV drama, This England, starring Kenneth Branagh as Boris Johnson during his tumultuous first months as Prime Minister and the first wave of the COVID pandemic. GALWAD, an ambitious, multiplatform arts project set in Wales, imagines what it would be like if we could receive messages from people living in 2052. Audiences can follow the story as it unfolds across the week, both online and on social media, and watch a broadcast of the whole event on Sky Arts. The lead producer Claire Doherty and lead writer Owen Sheers, explain why they wanted to push the boundaries of storytelling. The literary critic John Mullan and the novelist Katherine Rundell discuss the life and work of Hilary Mantel.

We nerd out over our favorite Austens and why. We mention the book “What Matters in Jane Austen? 20 Crucial Puzzles Solved” by John Mullan. Get it asap cause after Elizabeth reads it, we will be discussing our favorite parts!

In this episode, we read Chapters 12 to 16 of Mansfield Park. We talk about why Fanny refuses to act, why Edmund agrees to join in, the sheer amount of comedy in the scenes of the theatricals, and the Cinderella aspect of the plot.We talk about Tom Bertram, and then Ellen looks at theatre in the Regency period, and why Fanny and Edmund disapprove of the the theatricals. Harriet talks about the popular culture versions, including some modernisations and a variation that she hasn't looked at before.Things we mention: General and character discussion:John Wiltshire [Editor], The Cambridge Edition of the Works of Jane Austen: Mansfield Park (2005)Lionel Trilling, “Mansfield Park“, Partisan Review 21 (September-October 1954): 492-511. Also published in Encounter, September 1954: 9-19.Sheila Kaye-Smith and G.B. Stern, Talking of Jane Austen (1943) Historical discussion:Chuck Hudson, ‘Theatre in Georgian England' (2015)Elizabeth Inchbald, Lovers's Vows [full text on Project Gutenberg] (1798)Deirdre Le Faye [Editor], Jane Austen's Letters (1995)Lionel Trilling, “Mansfield Park“, Partisan Review 21 (September-October 1954): 492-511. Also published in Encounter, September 1954: 9-19.Claudia L. Johnson and Clara Tuite, 30 Great Myths about Jane Austen (2020)Popular culture discussion:Adaptations:BBC, Mansfield Park (1983) – starring Sylvestra Le Touzel and Nicholas Farrell (6 episodes)Miramax, Mansfield Park (1999) – starring Frances O'Connor and Jonny Lee MillerITV, Mansfield Park (2007) – starring Billie Piper and Blake RitsonModernisations:Westerly Films, Allagash Films, Metropolitan (1990) – starring Carolyn Farina and Edward ClementsYouTube, Foot in the Door Theatre, From Mansfield With Love (2014-2015)D.E. Stevenson, Celia's House (1943)John Mullan, Live at the Hay Festival (2014) [YouTube] – referred to in the discussion of Celia's HouseVariations:Lona Manning, A Contrary Wind(2017), A Marriage of Attachment (2018) and A Different Kind of Woman (2020) For a list of music used, see this episode on our website.  

Dominic is joined by the celebrated writer, broadcaster, journalist and literary critic: Professor John Mullan. They have a lively discussion on Great Expectations with a particular emphasis on some of the 'forgotten' characters - such as Biddy.John's celebrated book The Artful Dickens is a must read for anyone wanting to deepen their appreciation of Dickens' genius and influence on contemporary fictionIf you'd like to support this podcast series please feel free to make a donation here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/dominicgerrardSupport the show

In this episode, we read Chapters 4 to 7 of Mansfield Park. We talk about the character-revealing scenes, how the presentation of Fanny may make some readers dislike her, why Maria became engaged to Mr Rushworth, and Henry Crawford's behaviour.We discuss the character of Mary Crawford – who is perhaps almost as divisive as Fanny Price – and then Ellen talks about baronets, Members of Parliament, and the idea of ‘interest'. Harriet considers how the three adaptations, and two of the modernisations, present these chapters. Things we mention: General and character discussion:John Wiltshire [Editor], The Cambridge Edition of the Works of Jane Austen: Mansfield Park (2005)Lionel Trilling, “Mansfield Park“, Partisan Review 21 (September-October 1954): 492-511. Also published in Encounter, September 1954: 9-19.Sheila Kaye-Smith and G.B. Stern, Talking of Jane Austen (1943) and More Talk of Jane Austen (1950)John Mullan, Live at the Hay Festival (2014) [YouTube]Kingsley Amis, “What Became of Jane Austen?”, The Spectator, 4 October 1957 – republished in What Became of Jane Austen? And Other Questions (1970)The Daily Knightley (2021) [podcast] Popular culture discussion:Adaptations:BBC, Mansfield Park (1983) – starring Sylvestra Le Touzel and Nicholas Farrell (6 episodes)Miramax, Mansfield Park (1999) – starring Frances O'Connor and Jonny Lee MillerITV, Mansfield Park (2007) – starring Billie Piper and Blake RitsonModernisations:YouTube, Foot in the Door Theatre, From Mansfield With Love (2014-2015)D.E. Stevenson, Celia's House (1943)Creative commons music used: Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 12 in F Major, ii. Adagio.Extract from Joseph Haydn, Piano Sonata No. 38. Performance by Ivan Ilić, recorded in Manchester in December, 2006. File originally from IMSLP.Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 13 in B-Flat Major, iii. Allegretto Grazioso. File originally from Musopen.Extract from George Frideric Handel, Suite I, No. 2 in F Major, ii. Allegro. File originally from Musopen. Extract from Ludwig van Beethoven, Piano Sonata No. 28 in A major. File originally from Musopen. 

Topics covered : Tragic accident, trauma, grief.This week I speak to mother, wife and nurse Geraldine Mullan.Originally from Galway, Geraldine met John Mullan from Moville, Donegal in 2010. 2 years later they were married and lived a very happy life together with their two children Tomás and Amelia, until a devastating accident changed everything.On the 20th of August last year, a family day out ended in a nightmare when their car crashed into Lough Foyle.John (49), Tomás (14) and Amelia (6) tragically all lost their lives while Geraldine miraculously survived.In this conversation she talks about how she misses them every single day, the support from her family, friends and the local community and the ‘Mullan Hope Centre', which recently opened to honour the memory of her gorgeous family.This was an incredibly challenging conversation for Geraldine for obvious reasons, but her strength and composure are remarkable. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

From Horace Walpole to Ann Radcliffe, renegade novelists of the eighteenth century wanted to claim back the supernatural for fiction and so invented the Gothic Novel. This lecture pursues the gift of Gothic to later novelists, seeing how great Victorian novelists like Emily Brontë, Charlotte Brontë and Charles Dickens were entranced by the supernatural. Finally, it looks at how the possibility of supernatural explanation energises contemporary novelists like Hilary Mantel and Sarah Waters.A lecture by John Mullan, 14 AprilThe transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/supernatural-fictionGresham College has been giving free public lectures since 1597. This tradition continues today with all of our five or so public lectures a week being made available for free download from our website. There are currently over 2,000 lectures free to access or download from the website.Website: http://www.gresham.ac.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/GreshamCollege Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greshamcollege Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/greshamcollege

Why did stories of criminals become irresistible for novelists? Starting with works like Moll Flanders in the eighteenth century, this lecture goes on to examine the role of criminals in Dickens, keen to let his readers and characters experience what Pip in Great Expectations calls 'the taint of crime'. To what ends? How does the recent genre fiction of novelists like Patricia Highsmith and Ruth Rendell return us to the transgressive pleasures of Defoe's criminal autobiographies?A lecture by John Mullan 24 FebruaryThe transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/crime-fictionGresham College has been giving free public lectures since 1597. This tradition continues today with all of our five or so public lectures a week being made available for free download from our website. There are currently over 2,000 lectures free to access or download from the website.Website: http://www.gresham.ac.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/GreshamCollege Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greshamcollege Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/greshamcollege

How does fiction make itself seem like fact? Professor John Mullan begins where novels begin: with Defoe's Robinson Crusoe, which showed every novel that followed how to make a 'strange surprising' story seem entirely 'probable' (the word that eighteenth-century pioneers of fiction liked to use). He will explore the tradition of factuality in the English novel, ending with the novels of Kazuo Ishiguro and examples of recent auto-fiction.A lecture by John Mullan 28 OctoberThe transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/convincing-fictionGresham College has been giving free public lectures since 1597. This tradition continues today with all of our five or so public lectures a week being made available for free download from our website. There are currently over 2,000 lectures free to access or download from the website.Website: http://www.gresham.ac.uk Twitter: http://twitter.com/GreshamCollege Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greshamcollege Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/greshamcollege

In this episode, we talk about the way Darcy is reintroduced into the narrative, Jane Austen's thoughts on architecture and landscaping, the possible connection between Pemberley and Chatsworth and how Georgiana Darcy is presented in a very different manner from Anne de Burgh.We discuss Elizabeth Bennet, perhaps Jane Austen's most popular heroine. Ellen talks about the landed gentry, and Harriet looks at how the film and television adaptations treat the visit to Pemberley – including the scene that is probably the best known in all the adaptations.Things we mention: Books:Donald J. Greene, ‘The Original of Pemberley' (1968), later collected in The Selected Essays of Donald Green (2004)John Mullan, What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (2012)George Eliot, Middlemarch (1871)Popular culture:MGM, Pride and Prejudice (1940) – starring Greer Garson and Laurence OlivierBBC, Pride and Prejudice (1980) – starring Elizabeth Garvie and David RintoulBBC, Pride and Prejudice (1995) – starring Jennifer Ehle and Colin FirthFocus Features, Pride & Prejudice (2005) – starring Keira Knightley and Matthew MacfadyenBBC, Death Comes to Pemberley (2011) – starring Anna Maxwell Martin and Matthew RhysYouTube, Lizzie Bennet Diaries (2012) – starring Ashley Clements and Daniel Vincent GordhCreative commons music used Extract from Joseph Haydn, Piano Sonata No. 38. Performance by Ivan Ilić, recorded in Manchester in December, 2006. File originally from IMSLP.Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 13 in B-Flat Major, iii. Allegretto Grazioso. File originally from Musopen.Extract from George Frideric Handel, Suite I, No. 2 in F Major, ii. Allegro. File originally from Musopen. Extract from Christoph Willibald Gluck, Orfeo ed Euridice. File from IMSLP. Extract from Ludwig van Beethoven, Piano Sonata No. 28 in A major. File originally from Musopen. 

In this episode, we look at chapters 1 to 6 of Pride and Prejudice. We talk about how the book sets up the relationship between love and marriage, the way the characters are introduced so gradually, what we see in Darcy and the fact that we quickly learn how much money everyone has. We discuss Mrs Bennet in some detail, and then Ellen talks about class in the early nineteenth century, and the type of neighbourhood Pride and Prejudice is set in. Harriet gives an overview of the pop culture versions of the book (dividing them into adaptations, modernisations, continuations and variations) and then looks at how some of them deal with the opening sentence, the period setting and the character of Mrs Bennet.Things we mention:John Mullan, What Matters in Jane Austen?: Twenty Crucial Puzzles Solved (2012)John Burrows, Computation into Criticism: Study of Jane Austen's Novels and an Experiment in Method (1987)Adaptations of the bookMGM, Pride and Prejudice (1940) - starring Greer Garson and Laurence OlivierBBC, Pride and Prejudice (1980) - starring Elizabeth Garvie and David RintoulBBC, Pride and Prejudice (1995) - starring Jennifer Ehle and Colin FirthFocus Features, Pride & Prejudice (2005) - starring Keira Knightley and Matthew MacfadyenModernisations of the bookPathé Pictures International, Bride and Prejudice (2004) - starring Aishwarya Rai Bachchan and Martin HendersonYouTube, Lizzie Bennet Diaries (2012) - starring Ashley Clements and Daniel Vincent GordhBestboy Pictures, Pride and Prejudice: A Latter Day Comedy (2003) - starring Kam Heskin and Orlando SealeHelen Fielding, Bridget Jones's Diary (1996) - also a 2001 filmCurtis Sittenfeld, Eligible (2016)Continuations of the bookP.D. James, Death Comes to Pemberley (2011) - also a 2013 BBC mini-seriesVariations on the bookSeth Graham-Smith and Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies (2009) - also a 2016 filmCreative commons music used:Extract from Joseph Haydn, Piano Sonata No. 38. Performance by Ivan Ilić, recorded in Manchester in December, 2006. File originally from IMSLP.Extract from Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sonata No. 13 in B-Flat Major, iii. Allegretto Grazioso. File originally from Musopen.Extract from 

This week the hedgehog and the fox explore literary anonymity in the company of John Mullan – not the sort of anonymity where the author's name has simply been lost… Read More Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Samira Ahmed celebrates the life and work of Jane Austen, ahead of the 200th anniversary of her death.As Jane Austen's portrait is chosen for the new £10 note, Samira Ahmed explores how money dominates her novels, visiting her home at Chawton in Hampshire. John Mullan and Viv Groskop choose the best and worst Austen screen adaptations.Plus, as Austen's final and unfinished novel Sanditon is being turned into a film, Samira talks to adaptor Simon Reade and Emma Clery, writer of Jane Austen - The Banker's Sister. Presenter : Samira AhmedProducer : Dymphna Flynn.

Christmas, with all its tradition and rituals and emotion, has always provided a rich source of material for writers. In this programme Mariella Frostrup and her guests John Mullan and Jessie Burton explore what it offers twentieth century novelists; from James Joyce and his argumentative Christmas lunch in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man via Patrick Hamilton's bleak 1940's boarding house Christmas Eve in The Slaves of Solitude, to Bridget Jones, in the 1990s, having to return home to her family yet again - still single. And Jonathan Franzen discusses his prize winning book The Corrections which is all about a mother, Enid Lambert, trying to persuade her grown up children to come home for one last Christmas.

Mariella and John Mullan discuss listeners' recommendations for funniest book, Sue Townsend responds to her balloon debate victory, an interview with online publishing sensation Amanda Hocking, and Samantha Harvey talks about her new novel All is Song.

Mariella continues her celebration of funny books and funny writers with award winning comic novelist Christopher Brookmyre discussing why Jeff Torrington's 1992 Whitbread Award winning novel "Swing Hammer Swing" is his choice for Open Book's Funniest Book. In the concluding part of Open Book's Mini History of Comic Writing resident expert John Mullan joins award winning screenwriter Sir Ronald Harwood to discuss the two comic writing giants of the 20th century - P G Wodehouse and Evelyn Waugh. And Gaza through the eyes of a British Palestinian - Selma Dabbagh discusses her debut novel "Out Of It".

Melvyn Bragg and guests John Mullan, Karen O'Brien and Barbara Taylor discuss the life and ideas of the pioneering British Enlightenment thinker Mary Wollstonecraft.Mary Wollstonecraft was born in 1759 into a middle-class family whose status steadily sank as her inept, brutal, drunken father frittered away the family fortune. She did what she could to protect her mother from his aggression; meanwhile, her brother was slated to inherit much of the remaining fortune, while she was to receive nothing.From this unpromising but radicalising start, Wollstonecraft's career took a dizzying trajectory through a bleak period as a governess to becoming a writer, launching a polemical broadside against the political star of the day, witnessing the bloodshed of the French Revolution up close, rescuing her lover's stolen ship in Scandanavia, then marrying one of the leading philosophers of the day, William Godwin, and with him having a daughter who - though she never lived to see her grow up - would go on to write Frankenstein.But most importantly, in 1792, she published her great work, A Vindication of the Rights of Woman, which marks her out as one of the great thinkers of the British Enlightenment, with a much stronger, more lasting influence than Godwin. The Vindication was an attempt to apply the Enlightenment logic of rights and reason to the lives of women. Yet it was not a manifesto for the extension of the vote or the reform of divorce law, but a work of political philosophy. And surprisingly, as recent scholarship has highlighted, it was infused with Rational Dissenting Christianity, which Wollstonecraft had absorbed during her time as a struggling teacher and writer in north London.John Mullan is Professor of English at University College, London; Karen O'Brien is Professor of English at the University of Warwick; Barbara Taylor is Professor of Modern History in the School of Humanities and Social Sciences at the University of East London.

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the 18th century obsession with taste. In the mid 18th century the social commentator, George Coleman, decried the great fashion of his time: “Taste is at present the darling idol of the polite world…The fine ladies and gentlemen dress with Taste; the architects, whether Gothic or Chinese, build with Taste; the painters paint with Taste; critics read with Taste; and in short, fiddlers, players, singers, dancers, and mechanics themselves, are all the sons and daughters of Taste. Yet in this amazing super-abundancy of Taste, few can say what it really is, or what the word itself signifies.”From the pens of philosophers to the interior decor of the middle classes, the idea of good and bad taste shaped decisions about dress, wallpaper, furniture, architecture, literature and much more. The period saw an explosion in the taste industries - the origins of Chippendale furniture, Wedgwood pottery and Christie's auction house - and a similar growth in magazines and journals devoted to the new aesthetic, moral and social guidelines. But taste was also a battle ground that pitched old money against new, the city against the country and men against women. With Amanda Vickery, Reader in History at Royal Holloway, University of London; John Mullan, Professor of English at University College London; Jeremy Black, Professor of History at the University of Exeter