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265. Servant Leadership, Mentoring, and Actionable Steps with Kathryn Spitznagle   2 Timothy 2:2 (NIV) "And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others."   **Transcription Below**   Questions and Topics We Cover: What are some servant leadership principles you've learned over the years? How did you learn forgiveness is part of leadership? Will you elaborate on a leadership tool mentioned in your book, which is called the "Hero Page?"   Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage   Kathryn Spitznagle is the author of "Rock Star Millennials--Developing the Next Generation of Leaders," and the companion workbook, "Rock Star Millennials Toolkit." She is a professional coach and the founder of Mentoring Women Millennials, LLC. She has 30+ years of mentoring, coaching and leadership development in corporate, small business and not-for-profit environments as well as 10+ years of mentoring cancer survivors and their families throughout their journey. Her mission is to foster the personal and professional development of leaders... for the life they lead today...and the one they want tomorrow.   Savvy Sauce Episodes Mentioned in Episode: Being Intentional with Marriage, Parenting, Rest, Personal development, and Leadership with Pastor, Podcaster, and Author, Jeff Henderson Biblical Principles as Wise Business Practices with Steve Robinson   Additional Previous Episodes on Business and Leadership on The Savvy Sauce: The Inside Scoop on Chick-fil-A with Mark Dugger How to Apply Successful Business Principles to Your Life with Dee Ann Turner Leadership Principles and Practices with Former NFL Player, J Leman How to Lead When You're Not in Charge with Author and Pastor of North Point Community Church, Clay Scroggins Understanding the Myers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator to Improve Your Marriage, Family, and Work Relationships  Thriving at Work, Home, and Life with Author, Blogger, Podcaster, and Business Owner, Crystal Paine Energy to Spark Success in Your Business with Best-Selling Author, Speaker, and Podcaster, Christy Wright How 2 questions can grow your business and change your life with author, pastor, and podcaster, Jeff Henderson Radical Business and Radical Parenting with Gary & Marla Ringger, Founders of Lifesong for Orphans Stewardship as the Daughter of Chick-fil-A Founders with Trudy Cathy White Living Intentionally with Shunta Grant Generational Differences in the Workplace with Haydn Shaw Pursuing Your God-Given Dream with Francie Hinrichsen Leadership Training: Five Key Elements for Creating Customer Loyalty in Your Business with Elizabeth Dixon  Uncover Your Purpose with Clarity with Isimemen Aladejobi Unlocking Meaning and Purpose in Your Life and Overcoming Burnout with Dale Wilsher Leading Your Family, Marriage, and Self with Justin Maust Divine Productivity with Matt Perman 223 Journey and Learnings as Former Second Lady of the United States with Karen Pence Patreon 27 Re-Release: Purposeful and Practical with Emily Thomas Special Patreon Re-Release: Creativity and Career While Raising a Family with Jean Stoffer   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   **Transcription**   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger:  (0:12 - 1:20) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.    I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage.    Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org/savvy.    Kathryn Spitznagle is my enchanting guest for today, and her resume is quite impressive, but what actually is even more of a standout is her humble heart.   So, if you are one who learns from stories and encouragement, and you also appreciate actionable, practical tools, this conversation is definitely for you. Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Kathryn.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:21 - 1:24) Oh, thank you, Laura. Appreciate you having me.   Laura Dugger:  (1:24 - 1:32) Well, I'd love for you just to start us off by giving us a snapshot of your background and also your current phase of life.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:33 - 6:47) Okay, lots of seasons. Yeah, learned, you know, you learn something from all of them. So, I started out in journalism.   I've kind of come back to my roots interviewing folks. I was a sports writer, so I grew up in a family with four brothers, so when I went to college, I knew sports, and at the time, that was unusual to have a female sports So I did that, and then went into publishing after I got my journalism degree, and since I'd been a sports writer, they put me in the men's division of this magazine publishing company. So, I started out learning, I started out working for a helicopter magazine, and I was an editor, and the only one that did know how to fly, and so they sent me to flight school in order to be a better editor and, you know, learn how to communicate with our readers.   And again, then because I'd done that and was in the men's division, they moved me then to shooting times, which was hunting and sports shooting. So, then I learned how to shoot guns and reload in that whole industry. From there, I went to fashion.   So, I went to the women's division, and at first they said, you know, are you sure you want to do this? And I said, well, this will be the first job you've put me on that won't kill me. You know, I've learned how to fly planes and shoot guns.   You know, let me have a shot at that Singer sewing machine. And I was a terrible seamstress. And they said, really, what we want you to do in fashion is to create a presence in New York, in Manhattan.   And so, the publisher was in Peoria, Illinois, but they wanted a presence in Manhattan. And so that's what I did for three years, worked remotely back and forth, and created that presence, joined the Fashion Group International. They hired three consultants to fix me up.   And so, I laugh if you've ever seen the movie Miss Congeniality, that was me. So, you know, learned all about the fashion industry and built those relationships with our advertisers. And also, then we went into television and did a lifetime, the TV show, weekly TV show on Lifetime called Make It Fashion.   And we're trying to blend that the home sewing industry with the fashion industry. So, if you saw this on the runway, in Milan, or in New York, or in Paris, this is how you can make it yourself, be your own designer kind of thing. So that was my journalism start, then moved to St. Louis, got married, had babies, and went into corporate communications, worked for Purina in St. Louis, where I learned so much about leadership, moved back to Peoria, and I went to work for Caterpillar. And when I retired from Caterpillar, then I started this business, Mentoring Women Millennials. And I have such a heart for this generation. I think they're so bright and smart and creative and entrepreneurial, and they get a bad rap.   And so, I wanted to have a platform to lift them up, and also to give them tools. So, the first year I wrote a book, Rockstar Millennials, Developing the Next Generation of Leaders. And what I found, there were so many really sharp, bright millennials that had never had good leaders.   They never had a mentor. They didn't have the tools. Many of them were entrepreneurs.   They didn't intend to lead people. They had a craft. They started a business, and it grew.   And they're like, now I got people. What do I do with people? And as I was out speaking about my business, I found the audience very consistently had two types of attendees.   One was what I would call a seasoned leader, who said, for helping the millennials, thank you. Something along that line. And then I would have a young person stand up and say, “Do you have a book”?   And after that happened several times, okay, Lord, I got this. Yeah, write a book. And I remember saying, “That's a good idea, God, but I don't have time.”   And so if you want to know why COVID happened, it was me. Because the good Lord said, hey, it's February of 2020. It looks like you have time right now.   And so I hired an editor. We wrote a book in four months and published it at the end of the year. And in 2021, then started the podcast.   Laura Dugger:  (6:48 - 7:04) Well, that's an incredible resume and such a whirlwind to getting here today. But you mentioned some leadership principles, especially at Purina. So, Kathryn, what are some of those servant leadership principles that you've learned and acquired over the years?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (7:04 - 9:34) Over the years, yeah. Just some amazing leaders at Purina. Their culture was very much a servant leadership culture.   Purina as a company was created in the 1950s by an independently wealthy gentleman, William H. Danforth. And he created the Youth Foundation in St. Louis. And he found once he got kids out of gangs and out of jail and off drugs, nobody would hire them. So, he created a company to hire those kids, Purina. And so, they, yes, told us that, you know, the first day he said, you know, this is never confused what we make with why we're here.   We were here, we were created to develop people for life. What we make will change. But the reason we're here will not.   And Danforth also wrote a book called I Dare You. I Dare You to be the best you can be and help someone else do the same. And so that very first day we were told the story of the genesis of Purina, we were given that book, I Dare You.   And when we left orientation, we met, they had 360-degree mentoring. And they said, “This is how we create this culture. And we continue this for generations through mentoring.”   So, when you leave orientation, you're going to meet your leader mentor, your peer mentor, and in 90 days, you'll be mentoring. Everyone at Purina mentors, and we all learn from each other constantly. So that was the platform.   And that was the culture. And when you think about feeling cherished, and valued, that's how they did it. Because if you're going to mentor someone, and someone's going to mentor you, you have value.   And the people you're working with have value. And so that creating a cherished culture was their legacy. And then it's something that I took on to Caterpillar.   And I continue now, in my keynote speaking, that's one of the most popular is how to create a cherished culture in the boardroom, in the living room, and in the classroom. Hmm.   Laura Dugger:  (9:35 - 9:47) And so, I won't ask for the entire keynote speech then, but is there an overview that you can give us of those things that we could implement that you've learned to implement over time as well?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (9:47 - 11:29) Yes, some of the tools. And, and that was another wonderful thing about Purina that I saw then, and haven't seen it since. You know, it seemed unique to me at the time.   Fast forward a few years, and it was like, yeah, that was very unusual leadership. And one of the things that they valued was, know your people, understand them, know their needs, know their wants. Even at this point, so, you know, I'm talking 30 years ago, I went to work there in 1990.   They were talking about purpose. What's your purpose? Purina had a very specific purpose.   We are a purposeful company. We're here to develop people for life. And, and they even said, I thought this was unique to it at orientation.   They said, and we hire bright, smart people, and we don't expect you to stay here very long. Our job is to send you off better than we found you. And with a positive impression of Purina.   And here's why. When you leave here, you may go to another Fortune 50 company, which I did. You may be in a position to impact a merger or acquisition.   You can buy and sell our stock. And at the very least, when you go to the grocery store, you can buy dog food. And we want it to be Purina.   Laura Dugger:  (11:31 - 11:36) That's incredible. That actually happened then with you taking that forward.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (11:37 - 16:07) And all of those lessons learned. So, when I talk about creating a cherished culture, Purina, one of the things they did very well was to introduce a concept, illustrate it with a story, and then activate it with a tool. So mentoring, they talked about here is the platform on which our company is built, developing people for life.   And they told us that story then about Purina. Then they gave us the book. And then they gave us a mentor that we were meeting with each week.   And they gave us a, what do I want to say, an outline. So, when you meet with your mentor or mentee, here are questions to ask. Here's a way to go about this.   And the number one reason people do mentor is because they don't know how. What's a process? And so how smart?   Purina's like, here. Here's an outline. Here are things to ask.   Here are discussion topics. And here are different tools we're going to give you as you progress in leadership. And they're designed for you then to pass on.   And so those are some of the tools when I talk about creating a cherished culture. One of the tools is here are questions to ask. Here's how to have that dialogue.   Here are discussion topics. When you're developing a relationship with this person, ask about their life outside of work. Ask about their family and friends and whatever, as much as they'd like to share.   Not everyone does. That's okay too. Ask about their best day at work.   What's a bad day at work? What's their best boss like? How do they like to be recognized?   What's their purpose? One of the most insightful questions they asked at Purina was, why do you want to succeed? And why do you want this company to succeed?   And those two questions give insight to someone's purpose. And so, then if you frame discussions around their purpose and their values, it is exponentially more meaningful to them. So, when I talk about how do you lead millennials and how is it different?   Those are a couple of the things. Understand their purpose. Understand their life. Their values outside of work, and frame things within their purpose.   Here's an example and or their values. If someone says, my values are hard work and transparency. I want people to be honest. Those are a couple of my values.    Okay. So, if I were leading that person and I saw them being transparent with someone else, being open and honest, I would recognize them for that.   Not just recognize them for the work, but recognize them for their value, demonstrating their value. I saw you be open and honest with that person. Thank you for that.   If kindness is a value, I saw you. I saw what you did there today to help someone out without being asked. Thank you for that kindness.   That resonates on a whole different level. And if you have to have a tough discussion with that person to say, frame it in those words. I know you value honesty, and I do too.   And so, we need to have an honest conversation. And here's some things that I'm seeing in your behavior, in your leadership, or in your work style that can hold you back. So, let's fix this whole different way to lead.   Laura Dugger:  (16:09 - 16:39) Absolutely. And I love how some of these even one-page practical tools you've included in the back of your book. So, it's a plug and play, but I'm even thinking back to your mentoring relationships where you had this circle of mentors and you were mentoring.   I think it's also helpful to get to hear one another's mistakes. So, are you comfortable sharing any mistakes that you've made along the way that actually even turned out to be beneficial learning opportunities?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (16:40 - 20:32) Absolutely. Loads of them. I've got loads of them.   And one of the women I mentor has said, I think I've advanced my career 10 years by learning from your mistakes. And I love that. And she's like, now I'm going to make plenty of my own, but I'm not going to make yours.   And I said, “Good. That's the point of all this.” One of the big ones I made at Purina.   I think a lot of places I would have been fired, probably should have been. I was working in the marketing group, and we were like an internal marketing. So, we did the new product introduction, point of purchase, point of sale materials, the legal documents that went out, the whole packet that would go out to a distributor, a grocery store.   And EverReady Battery was one of our product lines. So, we had internal clients. And as they had new product introductions, we'd get the materials together.   We had in-house printing, all of the things, graphic design, and that was all under my purview. The letter, there's a letter that went out to distributors that was a legal document and had a number. And I pulled the wrong letter, the wrong number.   And it wasn't discovered until last minute. And we sat down with the client and they're like, oh my gosh, this is the wrong legal letter. And I, you know, I'm the account rep, that was on me.   So, I had to go back, I had to go to Neil Lewis, my boss and say, “Okay, we've got to pull this back before it all goes out, reprint, which is going to be all our expense. We're going to have to have people working off shifts and all that sort of thing to do it quickly. And then reassemble all these Eveready Battery packets and, you know, do as close as we can to meeting their deadline.”   And so basically it's going to eat up our margin and we're going to have more printing expense. We're going to have more labor and we're going to have some unhappy people. And our client's not real happy either.   And that was all me. And Neil said to me, “You know, I learned something today. And he said, until today, I thought you walked on water.”   And he said, “Now I know you're human, just like the rest of us.” And I thought, oh, my word. And he's like, okay, so what happened?   That was a mistake. How are we going to fix it? And I said, “I've already pulled the right letter, getting it reprinted. Here's the, additional time and money. Here's how it's going to impact our margin.” And he said, “You know, can we do it? And can we satisfy the customer and get, if not meet their deadline very close?”   And I said, “We can meet their deadline if we have people work third shift.” And, you know, and he said, “Okay, let's do it. That's the right thing to do.” And, and he said, Kathryn, “I told you what I learned today. What did you learn?”   And I said, “I learned how to be the kind of leader I want to be when someone makes a mistake.”   Laura Dugger:  (20:36 - 21:05) Wow. The humility in that is incredible. And thank you for sharing.   Stories are so memorable. It makes me instantly reminded of two previous episodes. I'll make sure I link in the show notes, both with Jeff Henderson and Steve Robinson, accomplished businessmen, but who were also willing to share stories and how just like you, it actually made them a better, more relatable leader.   And so that's encouraging.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (21:06 - 21:34) And I knew when I got to Caterpillar and, uh, particularly when I was running the Caterpillar visitor center, because that was so new and never been done in Caterpillar. And so, we're going to make some mistakes and we're going to learn, you know, along the way. And there was more than one occasion where I was reminded of Neil Lewis.   And I said, okay, I learned something today. You are human. Just like the rest of us.   Now, how are we going to fix this?   Laura Dugger:  (21:35 - 23:48) And then what did you learn?    Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor.    Friends, I'm excited to share with you today's sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Do you feel like you need a weekend away with your spouse and a chance to grow in your relationship together at the same time? WinShape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that provides weekend marriage retreats to help couples grow closer together in every season and stage of life from premarital to parenting to the emptiness phase.   There is an opportunity for you. WinShape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured. Even when it seems things are going smoothly so that they're stronger.   If they do hit a bump along their marital journey, these weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of WinShape retreat perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. While you're there, you will be well fed, well nurtured, and well cared for. During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and more.   I've stayed on site at WinShape before and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went. To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, to find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org/savvy. That's W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E marriage.org slash S-A-V-V-Y. Thanks for your sponsorship.   You've had so much experience in different areas and as a corporate leader. So what is it that drew you specifically to have a heart for millennials, which we can define as those approximately born between the 1980s and early 2000s?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (23:50 - 28:18) I really started working with them. My last role at Caterpillar, I was a director of global sustainability and it was within public affairs. So, we were leading, Caterpillar was leading a natural infrastructure coalition.   I was working with a lot of different entities, public, private, governmental. We're trying to get language passed into law. That was a big portion of my job.   Another portion of my job was to be out speaking about what Caterpillar was doing in the world of sustainability. And I loved that. What I found was the sustainability groups of Caterpillar employees all around the world, we do a global call quarterly, learning what everybody was doing.   They were all this age group. And when we would do the river cleanup on Saturday, these are the people that showed up with their kids. And when we do tree plantings, these are the people that showed up with their kids.   It's like, okay. And I remember saying to my peers, you know what, this group of employees, these young people are not going to retire with a pension like we are with health care like we do. There's so many things that we have garnered through our career appropriately.   They don't have that. What drives loyalty for them and what engages them with Caterpillar are these things. These things we're doing through the foundation where we're giving back and improving the world and the things we're doing in sustainability, giving back, improving the world.   They are so much more engaged in our company through these things. And so, I kind of knew, I thought, okay, I'm not sure exactly where the Lord is leading, but it's going to be with those people. And that was the thing I knew when I retired that, okay, this is what I want to do.   And then the more I worked, you know, I started the business mentoring women millennials. The more I worked with these young women, the more I saw, yes, there's a need. There's a need here.   And I always, you know, again, people would ask, why? Why are you so connected? And I said, first of all, I saw the value in them.   But secondly, I think I was one. My husband and I laughed that we never really fit in with our generation. And here's why.   We both were out of school and working on our careers when we met. And in our generation, you got married right out of high school, or at the very least right out of college. And so, you know, our families had given up.   They're like, they're never going to get married. They're working. They got this whole career thing going.   And so, when we got married, well, then we didn't have children until we were in our 30s. You know, highly irregular for our generation. We were entrepreneurial.   So, we were looking at franchises in our 20s. And our families were like, just get a job. What is this?   You got to buy something and then you buy something else. And my husband owned a business, his first business in his 30s. We both had side hustles.   Again, friends and family were like, just do one job. What is with you guys? Always got all these things, you know, going.   And then when I took the job in fashion, and I was working in Manhattan and living in Peoria, like, what do you even call that kind of work to call it remote? Working remotely? Yeah.   And so, I think part of my heart for them is I was one. And so, when they talk about some of the struggles and the things that are endearing to them, like, I got you. I felt like that, too.   Laura Dugger:  (28:20 - 28:57) That is incredible. And I think it really does make you the perfect person for that mentor mentee relationship. And I kind of want to camp out on that further, because we've alluded to it.   And some of these tips are in your book, where you highlight those discussion topics that give people the tools. But then if we take it a step further or personalize it, how can all of us as listeners begin a mentoring relationship like the one you've described? And I'm even thinking of the beginning point.   Do you think it's up to the mentor or the mentee to initially reach out?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (28:58 - 33:07) Either one. Yeah, either one can work. When I left Purina, having had this wonderful leadership experience and mentoring environment, I thought, well, this must be what all corporations are like.   No. Doesn't make them bad. They're just different.   So, when I got to Caterpillar that was male, very male dominated, I remember calling my mentor at Purina, who is still my mentor today. She mentored me for 22 years at Caterpillar after I left Purina. And then was one of the biggest proponents of me writing my book and starting my business.   And we still get together today. So, when they talk about developing people for life, they're very serious about that. And so, when I got to Caterpillar, I thought, well, they don't seem to have this.   I think I'll start a mentoring program. Well, I was, you know, some little gal in marketing. You're not going to start a mentoring program for a Fortune 50 company out of that spot.   It comes up through HR and Office of Business Practices and Legal and all of that. Anyway, I called my mentor at Purina, very frustrated, and I said, “Lynn, you and Neil make a place for me. I'm coming back.   They don't have a mentoring program here.” I don't, you know, and she said, “Okay, first of all, we didn't train you up to come back. Your job is to take this forward.”   And she said, “Are there young women there?” Yes. And she said, “Mentor them.”   And she said, “Are there leaders that need support?” And I said, “Yes.” And she said, “Okay, support them.”   She said, “Are there teams that need to be built?” And I said, “Yes.” And she said, “Then you have good work to do there.”   Go. And she hung up. I thought, OK.   And so, from that moment on, when I would see an announcement that would come through email where a woman was being hired into Caterpillar, I would reach out to her and just say, do you have a mentor or would you like one? And for 22 years, they all said yes. And so that's what I did.   I worked with those women. And, you know, here's another God wink when my announcement went out, then that I was retiring. These women all started coming back to me wherever they were in the nation and even in the world.   Many of them had gone on to do other things, bigger, better things. And they all started reaching out to me. Someone had forwarded the announcement to them and said, “We want you to start a business, a mentoring business and help others just like you helped us, and we will help you.”   And one said, “You need to write a book, and I'll write the forward.” Another one said, “Yes, and you need to do podcasts and I'll be on one.” Another one said, “I know what's going to stop you at your website, so I'm going to help you with your website.”   Another one said, “You're going to need testimonials.” So, she posted on social media that anyone that's ever been mentored by Kathryn Spitznagel, leave a message here. Very humbling.   And another one said, “I'm now VP of a big company in Chicago and I will hire you.” And so, I retired one day and started a business the next.   Laura Dugger:  (33:09 - 33:30) Incredible how that all came back around. And I gleaned so much from your stories in your book, and then even getting to connect with you before today. But there's another story about servant leadership that you shared from the man who you've named your previous boss, Neil Lewis.   Will you share? Do you know which one I'm thinking of?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (33:31 - 36:35) Yeah. You need to know three personal things about everyone who works for you. Okay.   So, Neil Lewis had leadership meetings. There were 12 of us were his leadership team every Monday morning. He was also a minister outside of work.   So, a lot of times we would laugh that we were getting the rehash of the sermon from yesterday as part of his leadership. But he often gave us assignments. And one Monday morning, he said, okay, here's your assignment.   I want you to know three personal things about everyone who works for you. And they need to be things that aren't in their personnel file. And he said, I'm going to ask you sometime this week about one of those people, but you won't know which one.   So, you need to know all of them. And I, you know, lousy leader, I was just learning. And I said, Neil, I have 10 people, three things, 10 people, that's 30 things I got to know.   And he said, Kathryn, good math. You have some work to do. So, I went back, and I interviewed each one of my 10 people, three things, found him out, followed the assignment.   And I was ready. And I saw him in the hall later in the week. He said, “Kathryn, walk with me. I'm going to the next meeting.” I said, “Okay.” Tell me three personal things about Kathy, who works for you. I said, “Okay.”   Kathy has recently divorced. Uh, she has an 18-month-old baby, and she is moving to a new apartment. And he said, “What have you done to help her?”   And honest to God, I said, “That wasn't part of the assignment.” And he looked at me and I said, “No, wait a minute. I did help her.   I changed her hours. She has a longer commute now into St. Louis. So, she's going to come in at 8:30 am and work till 5:00 pm.”   And I was feeling pretty proud of myself, like bonus question. And he said, “Did she come to you, or did you go to her?” And I said, “Well, she came to me, but I said, it was okay.”   So, Kathryn know your people. If you don't know your people, you don't know what they need. And if you don't know what they need, you can't help them.   And if you can't help them, what in the world are you doing here? It says leaders were here to serve. And if you're not here to serve, you need to step out.   I became a different leader that day. One who chose to lead by serving.   Laura Dugger:  (36:38 - 37:17) I just wanted to let you know there are now multiple ways to give when you visit thesavvysauce.com. We now have a donation button on our website and you can find it under the donate page, which is under the tab entitled support. Our mailing address is also provided.   If you would prefer to save us the processing fee and send a check that is tax deductible. Either way, you'll be supporting the work of Savvy Sauce Charities and helping us continue to reach the nations with the good news of Jesus Christ. Make sure you visit thesavvysauce.com today. Thanks for your support.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (37:18 - 38:19) You know, the other piece, uh, the other thing that he taught me there, uh, Laura, as we continued to walk, uh, because he always wanted to bring things back around to, to a positive. He was going to make his point, but he was not going to leave me there, you know? He said, Kathryn, “Do you understand what you missed there?”   It was such a missed opportunity with Kathy, um, to engage her and to help her feel cherished. He said, “That's the difference when you anticipate someone's needs and you go to them before they ask. That's the opportunity.”   That's the gold. That's what engages people and, uh, garners their loyalty. And that's when they feel cherished.   That was the real missed opportunity.   Laura Dugger:  (38:23 - 38:35) And that never left you. And that's probably blessed so many people hearing that. What about lessons of forgiveness in leadership as well?   Do you have any stories to illustrate that?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (38:35 - 42:28) Yes. And that's another lesson from, from Neil Lewis that was a profound lesson for me that I've never heard anywhere else. Forgiveness is part of leadership. So, I learned this, um, again, lousy leader just starting out.   And, um, when he put me into leadership, I was like, how hard could it be? Tell people what to do. They do it.   And then came my first employee opinion survey results and they were bad. The numbers were bad. The comments were bad.   The people were unhappy. Um, and the comments to me were, were hurtful. They were justified, but they were hurtful.   And so, when I got, uh, you know, got all the information, I left, I was upset. The next day when I came into the office, I just went into my office and closed the door. I thought they don't want to talk to me.   I don't want to talk to them. That's fine. I was working here.   So, Neil gave me a little time to cool off. And then he came in and, um, on my desk, uh, one of the things that they, um, Purina does in terms of creating that cherished culture is, um, to have things around you that revitalize you. And so, they ask you one of the first days about what, what are things that revitalize you?   And I said, okay, uh, fresh flowers revitalize me. They remind me of my grandmother, nanny, and being in the garden. Um, notes are cards from handwritten, you know, from friends and family and a walk outside.   Those are three things that revitalize me. Okay. So again, I registered with Neil Lewis.   He knew that was a way to frame things for me. So, when he came in that morning, he picked up one of the cards from my desk and he handed it to me and he said, to read that card. And I said, you can read it.   He said, “No. No, I'm asking you to read it out loud to me.” So, it was a card from someone on my team, very complimentary about my leadership style and what it, how it impacted them. And he said, “Is that the leader you are today?”   And I said, “No, but in fairness, they were mean to me. They said some very hurtful things and yeah, I'm not happy.” He said, “Okay.”   And he said, “Kathryn, as leaders, our job is to give first and give again”. And he said, “Do you know what the bridge is between giving first and giving again?” And I said, “No.”   I said, “Neil, I'm not tracking with you.” And he said, “Forgive.” And I said, “Oh, forgiveness.”   And he said, “Nope. Forgiveness is something someone else does. That's a noun. Forgive is a verb. And that's what I need to see you do. Forgive.”   He said, “Kathryn, forgiveness is a big part of leadership and it's something that will hold you back for the rest of your life. So, I am asking you today to be the leader I know you to be and forgive them.”   Laura Dugger:  (42:32 - 42:52) Well, in even the way he modeled that in the way you shared that story, it also reminds me of another leadership tool that you mentioned in your book, which I think if somebody is experiencing this, that could be a really practical next step. So, it's called the hero page. Will you elaborate on that for us?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (42:52 - 52:07) Yes. And so, at Purina, when they talked about having these one-on-ones with your team, with your mentees, with your mentors, kind of framing the dialogue in three buckets, called it three bucket exercise. And I still, this is how I still mentor today.   Uh, so the first thing we ask people to come prepared with is bucket one. What are we celebrating? What have you learned? What have you accomplished? What has gone so well?   Um, since the last time we spoke, because we, as people, but particularly as women pass through things very quickly and go, yep, done good onto the next. Yeah. We don't take that time to celebrate.   And Purina was very focused on what they called reveling. Take just a minute to revel. That was good work, did good work, but whatever was accomplished personal and professional, it was, there were things at home, baby slept four hours straight.   Okay. So, bucket one, what are we celebrating?    Um, so bucket one, they called aha.    Bucket two, they called, hmm, what is, uh, what's out there that you need to, um, do, you know, what's on your to-do list. Is there something you need to get a plan for?   Um, is there something that you want to talk through that's kind of on your assignment board, something like that. And we'll talk through some tactics.    Bucket three is what in the world.   So, anything that seems overwhelming, uh, caught you by surprise. You didn't know it was part of the job. You didn't know it was part of life.   Those are the things we want to talk about in bucket three, every time. So, you want me to tell you the things that are overwhelming me and that I don't know where to start. Yes.   Yes. Every week, because here's what we'll do. We will take the power out of that.   Once you, that's it. We're going to fix it and say, okay, this is what's overwhelming me. This is what I'm anxious about.   This is what caught me by surprise. And we're going to figure out how to break it down into something actionable. And then we're going to move it to bucket two.   And next week, we're going to be talking about those action steps and pretty soon it's going to move to bucket one. There you go. We're celebrating that process that I learned at Purina still did at Caterpillar and doing today.   Um, that just warms my heart. Uh, when I see, um, the folks that I've worked with who've now gone on to do other things. And, uh, one of the guys on my team at Caterpillar, um, now works for McDonald's in Chicago.   And he said that Kathryn, that's our onboarding process. And so, anybody that comes through his team in McDonald's, that's what they learn how to do. And he said that it was just gold.   And you can talk about creating a safe space, but again, the difference with Purina was they gave you a tool, not ours, we are a cherished culture. We create a safe space. And you know what, here's how, by asking this question and by setting aside time to answer it and wrestle with it and work through it.   Now, having said all that, where do you put this information as you're learning this about this person? Uh, you're learning what they're celebrating. You're learning, um, what their values are.   You're learning what they like to do outside of work. What's important to them learning about their purpose. That's a hero page.   And so, they gave us a tool and they said, you know, it's very simple, a hero page. You, you just record things that you have learned about this person that you respect and admire about them. And you can do one for yourself.   They ask you to do the first one for you. Um, but then also to do them for, you can do them for a peer or a leader. Um, you can also do them for someone you're struggling with because oftentimes we aren't really looking for the positives in that person.   So, the, uh, the logic behind the hero page is once you've created it, uh, you're going to look for things to put on it. Positives, all positives, negatives we remember. Positives we're looking for and that's the first reason.    The second reason for a hero page is you may have a tough day with that person sometime. And if you do, you go back and look at your hero page and it puts things in perspective.   Yeah, this isn't going well today, but here are the things I respect and admire about this person. And yes, um, perspective.    The third reason is they may have a tough day sometime and what an incredible gift you can be to them.   Here's an example. When I worked at Caterpillar, um, had wonderful leaders, some remarkable women leaders at Caterpillar, I think because there were so few of them, they were rock stars. And one that I worked for, uh, was sent to Beijing, China on a short term, like a, I don't know, six month or one year assignment as it at the same time, I was also mentoring someone in that Beijing office and it was very remote.   They were, in a remote area, creating an office, creating an HR office, you know, where they, where there's a factory and the person I was mentoring said, you know, let me give you an idea of what we're struggling with here. What kind of, what our situation is. And I'm at corporate and I said, well, whatever it is, I think I could send you some of our signage, some of our value signs.   Those are, those are, that's what you need. I'll send you some value signs. You can put them up on your walls.   And she said, Kathryn, we don't have walls. We're working out of a tent. And she said, each morning we send a bus out to the rural areas here in China and it stops to pick up workers.   And if dad can't go, he sends mom. And if mom can't go, she puts a couple of kids on the bus. And we never know from day to day who's coming to work.   What we do know is that the bus will be full. They will get two meals while they're at work, breakfast and lunch. And then when it returns them home, they will have gotten paid.   She said, we are all but paying people and chickens. Do you understand the situation, the gravity of what we're trying to do to come in here and create an office and HR processes? And she said, first, we're trying to determine who our employees are.   I said, “Oh, our leader is struggling”. And she said, “Will you get on a call with her today?” I said, “Give me a minute.”   And she said, “You're going to get her hero page.” So, we got on the call. Lois, “Kathryn, is this the woman that led one of the first NPI projects for Caterpillar as a woman with our flagship tractor?”   And she said, “Yes.” I said, “Is this the woman who was handed a belt buckle and a t-shirt and created global merchandising stores all around the world?” And she said, “Yes.”   I said, “Is this the woman who has been married 30 plus years happily, raised two remarkable children and showed us all it was possible?” Yes. I said, “I don't know what you're struggling with today, but I do know the woman who did these things can tackle this.”   What a gift you would be to another leader on the day that they needed it in that moment, just to remind them of their value.   Laura Dugger:  (52:10 - 52:40) That encouragement is so powerful. And you're such an engaging storyteller. And like you had mentioned previously, you've gone on from corporate America to now beginning your own business, including your podcast that will link to Rockstar Millennials.   So, I'm curious, Kathryn, are there any stories from those podcast episodes that really come to mind as you think of any standout lessons or your favorites?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (52:41 - 55:51) Oh my gosh. There are so many. It just seems like when I think I can't meet someone any more incredible, I do.   And again, good Lord's hand, they come from all different paths. We're international now. A couple of them that really stand out to me, Michael Kuzma,: he invented the self-playing guitar.   He knew people in his life who had either never been able to play the guitar and wanted to, or they had experienced some sort of an injury or illness that then prevented them from doing what they loved. And so, he created this and just said, “I want this to bring joy and be fun for people.” And I guess the part of the platform that I have for the podcast is purpose.   How are you living your purpose? Khushi Shah is 19 years old. So, she's a little bit younger than a millennial even.   Created a company called Drizzl and it is an informed, what I want to say, it's an irrigation company. And she created this as a science project in grade school. She's now in college at MIT and Harvard and Northeastern.   So, she's attending classes at all. She went to a science and math school in Chicago for high school, finished early and took a gap year at 17. And I said, “So you traveled?”   And she said, “Nope, I decided I'd just run that business full-time, Drizzl.” And so, her families of Indian descent. They'd gone to India and seen the need for water, clean water.   And she said, coming back to the States, I saw sprinklers, lawn sprinklers running and it was raining. And I thought, I need to fix that. There are products on the market that will turn a sprinkler off if it's raining.   Her product is predictive. She's 19. Yeah.   So, folks from St. Jude, folks from Midwest Food Bank, just incredible. Obviously, I can't name one.   There are so many. And those who are living their purpose in all walks of life, in all places around the world, I want to talk to.   Laura Dugger:  (55:52 - 56:07) Wow. And Kathryn, you've invested in so many people and highlighted so many people through your podcast. As you look back, what are you happiest that you invested your life in?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (56:09 - 57:07) Well, I'm a mom, boy mom. So that would have to be my first, my boys. Again, one of the women that I mentor said to me early on, Kathryn, one of the things I love the most is you're from the other side.   I said, Kelsey, what does that mean? I'm from the other side. And she said, you've already done all of this.   You've done the corporate life. You understand small business. You have a decades long, happy marriage.   You've raised your boys. They're happy. They're successful.   If you did this, we can do this and you can help us. And so that investment on so many levels, yeah, is coming back.   Laura Dugger:  (57:08 - 57:19) I love that. And would you be willing just to share anything else about your business or what all you have to offer so that we can continue learning from you after this conversation?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (57:20 - 1:00:49) Oh, absolutely. So, the book that you mentioned, Rockstar Millennials, Developing the Next Generation of Leaders. That's the book.   And it recounts so many of these leadership stories. And then in the back, as you said, are the different tools. And I have to credit the Caterpillar engineers because when I went to Caterpillar and I would tell these stories about Purina or I would live something that they had taught me.   Very early on, in the meeting, or after the meeting, some of these gentlemen came up to me and said, “That thing you just did in that meeting, can you write that down? Like what?” And they said, “Like the words and or the process.”   And so, it began. So, I'd start writing down the words and they might put a graphic with it or somehow improve it. And so, through the years, this same group kept coming back to me.   And when they saw the announcement that I was retiring, they showed up again and said, “Okay, we need one more thing, a spreadsheet.” What do you mean a spreadsheet? They said, “You know, all through the years, we have all of these tools now that we've created out of your head on this paper that we can use and we're using.”   If you can give us a spreadsheet that says, “If you're having this leadership issue, use this tool.” So, God bless the engineers.   So, I credit them, and the tools are in the back of the hard book.   What I found when I started doing workshops was people didn't want to write in the book and they also wanted something bigger and they wanted a place to make notes and doodle and that sort of thing. So that's why we have the book and then the toolkit. So, my business is Mentoring Women Millennials and I do one on one mentoring with individuals, small business primarily.   They'll bring me in to work with their women leaders, but also just individuals who are in some sort of a transition in life or that have never had a mentor and would like one. And so, I do the one-on-one mentoring also with nonprofits. And I'm now an 18-year breast cancer survivor, still in treatment.   And I also mentor breast cancer survivors. And keynote speaking. I work with the Capital City Speakers Bureau.   And so, I do speaking there and I'm prepping for a TED Talk. So those are the next things.   Laura Dugger:  (1:00:50 - 1:01:16) I love it. Always something up your sleeve. We will link to your website so that people can follow up and get in touch if that would be a good partnership.   And you may already be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so as my final question for you today, Kathryn, what is your Savvy Sauce?   Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:01:18 - 1:01:49) Um, when I left Purina, um, I asked Neil, “You know, how do I ever repay this company that has given so much to me?” And he said, “Take what you've learned and help someone else.” And so, if you learn from me, that would be my ask, help someone else.   Laura Dugger:  (1:01:50 - 1:02:05) I love that. Amen. Great Savvy Sauce.   And Kathryn, you're just so poised and classy and full of insight. And it was an absolute pleasure to get to host you as my guest today. So, thank you for being my guest.   Kathryn Spitznagle: (1:02:05 - 1:02:07) Thank you. Thank you for having me.   Laura Dugger:  (1:02:09 - 1:05:52) One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.   We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?   Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?   We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.   If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.   We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.   Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.   I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.   I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Marriage takes intentionality—and in the middle of raising kids, balancing work, and keeping up with the daily grind, it's easy for couples to put their relationship on the back burner. In this episode, Amy and Marissa sit down with Genee Francis, Assistant Director of Content and Programming at WinShape Marriage, to talk about what it really looks like to invest in your marriage. From practical rhythms to heart-level encouragement, Genee shares wisdom for strengthening connection, building trust, and keeping Christ at the center—no matter your season. Whether you're newly married or years into the journey, this conversation is filled with hope, humor, and practical ways to grow stronger together.Explore WinShape Marriage Retreat OptionsExplore WinShape Marriage Free Resources-Question of the Week: What qualities are you going to look for in someone to marry one day? Why are those important to you? --Hosts: Amy Lowe & Marissa RayGuests: Genee FrancisProducers: Emily Alters & Cody Braun--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps 

264. Simple Ideas for Incorporating Art with Children and Teens with Courtney Sanford   Colossians 3:23 NLT "Work willingly at whatever you do, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people."   **Transcription Below**   Questions and Topics We Discuss: Can you give us an overview of the seven major forms of art and give an example of ways our children can engage with each? What are the best art supplies to have on hand? As our children grow, why is this helpful in the teen years to have a healthy way to express ourselves and our ideas?   Courtney Sanford is a dedicated wife, and mother who triumphantly homeschooled her three children. With one pursuing a career in orthodontics, another just finishing a master's degree while working in higher education, and the youngest studying computer science at Regent University, Courtney's commitment to their education has yielded remarkable success.   Passionate about nurturing creativity and self-expression, she guides students through captivating art classes, exploring the intersection of imagination and skill. With her background as a graphic designer and experience in studio art, Courtney embarked on a new adventure as an art teacher.    As a multitasking mom, author, artist, teacher, and adventurer, Courtney embodies the spirit of embracing life's opportunities and fostering a love for learning and artistic expression.   Beyond her love for education, Courtney has an insatiable wanderlust. She finds joy in traversing the globe, hosting art retreats, and volunteering at Spiritual Twist Productions: both painting sets, and serving on the board of directors. When time permits, Courtney indulges in spring snow skiing, hiking in exotic locations, and leisurely walks with her dog, Zoey.   Delightful Art Co. was born out of a time when life gave Courtney a handful of lemons, and she creatively transformed those lemons into refreshing lemonade. The Covid shutdown rather forcefully prompted a major shift from in-person art classes to online classes.    Courtney's Website   Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage   Other Episodes Mentioned: 202 Simple Ways to Connect with Our Kids And Enjoy Breaks with Beth Rosenbleeth (Days with Grey) 223 Journey and Learnings as Former Second Lady of the United States with Karen Pence   Continue the conversation with us on Facebook, Instagram or our website.   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*    Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 1:36) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   I am thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage.   Their weekend retreats will strengthen your marriage, and you will enjoy this gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org. That's W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E marriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.   Courtney Sanford is my guest today, and she's an amazing artist and teacher and author, and I'm just so excited to share this conversation. If you're like me and you're ready for summer and your rhythm changes with your kids, she's going to share some super practical tips for incorporating art and beauty into our homes.   And I think that you're going to conclude this conversation by knowing where to begin and understanding why it matters. Here's our chat.    Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Courtney.   Courtney Sanford: Thanks for having me.    Laura Dugger: I'm so excited to hear more about your story, so will you share what has led you into the work that you get to do today?   Courtney Sanford: (1:37 - 4:20) I sure do like to share that story. I didn't start off as a homeschooler. I didn't imagine that that would be where my life went, but I was always a creative person.   I was a graphic designer, and I worked in the Performing Arts Center, and I got to do lots of fun design for shows. Then along came kids. I actually enjoyed dropping them off at school and going to Target, and I was okay with that.   We didn't do public school because the school near me didn't look safe, and we had lived near Columbine High School and thought it was just a beautiful, beautiful school. And when we left Colorado, we thought, oh, isn't it sad that our kids won't go to school there? And then just about a month later, the whole Columbine shooting happened, and so we were kind of traumatized by all of that.   And then when I saw the school that my precious five-year-old would go to, it didn't look safe, and so we sent them to a private school. So here we are spending a lot of money, having high expectations, and the kids were doing all worksheets all the time, and they started to dread going to school, and they didn't love learning, and the excitement of learning just kind of drained out of them. And so we looked into other options and decided that homeschooling would be the way to go, and I found the classical model and just loved the way that sounded, and we tried it, and it worked, and the little lights just came back on in their eyes, and they started to love learning again.   And I just found my people, and I just learned everything I could about homeschooling, and I just poured myself into it wholeheartedly as unto the Lord. And had a great time, and I just loved my time with my kids, and I felt like it was successful, and I encouraged other people to do it, but I wasn't really sure that it worked until they got into college and they turned out to be successful, thriving humans, and we're really proud of them. One will be a doctor in about a month.   He's about to graduate. He has a wife and a little girl, and then my second one has her MBA, and she works for a Christian college where she leads trips, and she's getting ready to take a group to Paris and London, and so she kind of ministers to students through that, and then my youngest is still in school staying to be a software developer. So now I can confidently say it was worth all the energy that I put into it.   It was hard work, probably the hardest thing I've ever done, but so worth it.   Laura Dugger: (4:21 - 4:40) That's incredible, and I love hearing the success story where your children are now, but you really also inspired them with beauty and art in their learning and growing up time, and I'm curious, are there any personal lessons that the Lord has taught you through art?   Courtney Sanford: (4:41 - 6:32) Oh, goodness. Yeah, I think my desire was to make learning interactive because I saw what they were doing in the private school, which was sit in a chair all day and do your worksheets, and it was just worksheet after worksheet after worksheet and then a quiz, and then you get graded, and so I was thinking if I'm going to pull them out, I've got to do better than that, and so that was my standard, and I was going to beat that standard every day, and so I pulled in art because that's what I knew, so if we were learning about an animal, we would draw the animal. If we were learning about a continent, we would draw the continent until we could draw it from memory, and I really learned with them. I did not have a great elementary education or even high school education, so I would learn this stuff, and then I would think of creative ways to get them involved with it, so a lot of times it was drawing.   It could be painting. It could be making things out of clay. We used to make things out of Rice Krispie Treats, and then they could take it to their co-op group.   Well, it was a classical conversations group, but they do presentations, and so we made a Mayan temple out of Rice Krispie Treats, and we would make volcanoes, and then they could take it to their friends and share it with them and tell them about it, so anything I could do that would get us out of the chair using our hands and using our senses and think, you know, how can I incorporate all five senses, and that just made learning so much more fun for them and for me, and so a lot of it was art. Some of it was science.   Anytime I could incorporate a sense of play into what they were learning, I could see that they would learn so much more.   Laura Dugger: (6:32 - 6:55) I love that, trying to incorporate all five senses, especially. That gets some ideas coming, but can you even back it up, and because you're an artist, will you give us an overview of the seven major forms of art, and can you give us examples as parents for ways that we can engage our children with each of those?   Courtney Sanford: (6:56 - 10:58) Oh, sure. Let me think. All right, so drawing, of course, you can draw what you see, so when I teach students to draw, I do a progression, so we'll draw from line art, and you can find line art anywhere.   It might be in a children's book, so using the library was key for me, so I'd get a laundry basket, and I would go to the library with an index card of what we'd be studying, and I would grab all kinds of books related to that, so when you come home, you get out a kid's book. If you see a good line drawing, say you're studying a lizard, if you see a good line drawing, draw from that. They could even trace it to start with, so you draw from the line drawing, then once they get really confident with that, you go to drawing from photos, and then you go to drawing from real life, so maybe you have a fish tank.   Maybe there's a fish in the fish tank, and you could draw from that or draw things in your yard, so that is how I break down drawing for them, and it could be years. You could draw from line art for years before you go to drawing from photos, and then to drawing from real life, and drawing's great for learning to memorize things. For painting, painting's just fun, and so I like to go to the kitchen table every afternoon and paint what you see, so you start off with the younger kids.   You could start with color and markers and fill in the areas, and then you can teach them how to shade using painting. Sculpture is also fun with kids. I like air-dry clay, and I like Sculpey clay.   I like to get a one-pound block of Sculpey clay and teach them the basic forms, like roll out a snake, do your hands together. Those of you who are listening, you can't see my hands, but I am making a sphere with imaginary clay. These are really good for developing their fine motor skills, too.   We also make the letters out of roll-out snakes and form your letters. That will really help if they're reversing letters. It takes a while to build the whole alphabet, so maybe you do three or four letters a day.   You work on it a couple times a week. It might take a month to make the whole alphabet, but that can be one goal, to get them working in three dimensions. We usually do additive sculpture, like adding on, and you can use found objects to make sculptures.   One time, my son took apart a pen. I rearranged the pieces into a human shape, and it was lovely. Getting them thinking in three dimensions is related to sculpture.   Carving, I don't like to do until they're old enough to be safe with a knife, but once they are, especially the boys love to go outside in the yard and get a log. They spend a lot of time carving spoons. Just a simple shape they can hold in their mind and then carve it is a good activity.   It keeps their little hands busy, too, if you want to read aloud to them and you don't mind a little mess in the house, they can carve. You can also carve out of a bar of soap as well. For that, that's a subtractive sculpture technique.   Let's see. That's the three main ones, drawing, painting, sculpture. I know film is one.   Film, I don't really incorporate much into my homeschool, except we will occasionally watch a movie about history. That has gotten me into trouble a few times because some of those movies that I think are going to be historic turn out to have racy scenes in them, and I'll have to jump up and get in front of the TV or cough really loud. But there are some good films that you can watch together as a family.   That's about as far as I went with film.   Laura Dugger: (10:59 - 11:19) I would, if you don't mind me interrupting there, too. I feel like that's one that our girls have actually begun to develop on their own, where our eldest daughter once wanted a video camera, so she got the old-school video camera. They're making their own movies, and I've seen that as a form of creative, artistic play.   Courtney Sanford: (11:20 - 11:49) Oh, that's fabulous. Yes, so when my kids were little, we didn't even have phones or video cameras on the phones, so that wasn't an option. When we first started homeschooling, our TV died, and so we did not even have a TV for years.   We just decided not to replace it, which forced us into audiobooks and reading aloud and then just playing outside instead and reading books. So that was a blessing.   Laura Dugger: (11:49 - 12:03) I love that because that's one of the other forms. That was new to me, that literature is an art form. Sorry, I sidetracked you because we still have literature, architecture, theater, and music.   Courtney Sanford: (12:04 - 14:20) Yeah, I think the best thing that we did for our kids, of course, I love teaching them to write using Andrew Pudewa's method with IEW. It's kind of imitative writing, so you learn to imitate good writers. But also, my husband read aloud to the kids every single night.   That was his time with him. He gave me a break, and he would read for hours. He loved it.   The kids loved it. And he would choose classics or funny things, you know, science fiction. Probably not the books that I would choose.   I would choose classics and things related to what we were studying, but he chose what he wanted to read. So I would read aloud in the afternoons, and we would do audiobooks like Story of the World and all the Jim Weiss readings. And then he would read aloud at night.   And just whatever he wanted to choose, he would read aloud. And I think hearing good language produces good speakers and good writers. So he gets about 50 percent of the credit for the success of the kids, I think, for just reading aloud every night.   It was such a great thing to do for the kids. And then the last one, architecture. I do incorporate architecture when I'm teaching about a culture.   So, if we're doing art history or history, we'll look at the buildings. So, of course, you do that with ancient Egypt. You look at the pyramids.   When you're talking Old Testament times, you look at the tents. And then as I go through art history with the high schoolers, I'll point out more and more like neoclassical, of course, comes from the ancient Greeks, but it's come to symbolize power and authority. And that's why we see it in government buildings.   So, my degree is graphic design, but it was in the School of Architecture. So, I had a lot of history of architecture and I appreciate it. And so I'm always pointing that out to my kids.   And I do that in my class, in my art history class. I always incorporate the architecture just as a part of understanding a culture.   Laura Dugger: (14:21 - 14:29) I love that. And was there anything specific that you did with your kids for encouraging music or also theater?   Courtney Sanford: (14:30 - 15:29) Oh, yeah. One thing I wish I had done more of was kinder music. I don't know why we didn't do that much kinder music, but now I'm learning more about it.   I wish I had done more of that. And I did put them in piano lessons. One wanted to do violin.   So, they had a few years of learning the basics of music, and then they really got into theater. We have a great Christian youth theater nearby. And so that was a really good experience.   In their Christian youth theater, they would sing praise and worship songs before and during and after a play. They would be praying for the audience and singing worship songs in addition to the singing on the stage. And that whole experience was really good for them.   Even my quietest kid got a big role in a play one time, and he had to memorize a lot of lines and sing in front of people. It's just such a great experience for them.   Laura Dugger: (15:30 - 15:57) I would think so. Even if they don't choose something that we would consider a very artistic career, I can see why all of this is still beneficial. That leads me to another question for you.   Regardless of the way that all of us parents listening are choosing to educate our children, why is it still beneficial for all of us to incorporate art into our homes and into our parenting?   Courtney Sanford: (15:58 - 21:59) That's a great question. So, the first line of the Bible says God created. So, the first thing we learn about God is that he was creative.   He created everything. And then just a few lines later, it says then he created man in his own image. So that tells me that we were created to be creative, to create.   Now, he doesn't let us create stuff out of nothing like him, which is probably for our own good. That would be a mess. But we can create things out of what he created.   And there is a study done by George Land. And there's a video on YouTube of George Land giving a talk about this creativity study that he did. And he created a test for NASA to help them find creative engineers when they were trying to get to the moon.   And they used it to study creativity in children. And they tested five-year-olds. So, they found a group of 1,600 five-year-olds who were in school.   And when they tested them at five years old, 98% of them tested as creative geniuses. So, their plan was to go every five years and test them again just to see what was going on. So, they went back after five years.   The kids are now 10. And it dropped down to like 27%. They went back another five years when the kids were 15, and it was down to about 17%.   And then they were so depressed, they stopped testing them because they could see they began as very creative. So, we're created creative. And a lot of moms will say, yes, I can see that in my children.   But something happens. And this was all in school. Something happened during school that taught them to not be creative.   So, the school teaches the kids to be obedient, to sit still, and to get the same outcome from every kid. Right? There's an expected answer on every test.   And you're to try to get the answer that the teacher wants. That's not creative. So, the first thing to do to preserve their creativity is don't send them to school.   That's the safest bet. And then when you do homeschool them, which I think is the best environment for them, don't do what they do in school. To bring them home and to go to all this trouble just to do the same thing that they're doing in school is not worth the trouble.   So, you've got to not do what they're doing in school. And so, for me, that meant don't do worksheets, make the content interactive. So, I did rely on curriculum, but I didn't rely on the curriculum to be the teacher.   So, I get the content from the curriculum, and then I make it interactive using artistic, creative skills so that they can be creative. And I don't teach it out of them. So, if you have young kids, that's good news.   They're already creative. You just have to don't teach it out of them. If your kids are older and maybe they've been in school, then you might have to like undo some of that training and set up some experiences where you ask them or even like in my classes, I'll set up a challenge.   And I expect everyone's to be different because everybody's going to do it a little bit more creatively in their way. And so, at the end of class, instead of like calling out the answers to see if everybody got the same thing, they're holding up what they did and telling me what they were thinking. And everybody's is different.   And then I really praise the ones who did something different. Maybe they changed the colors. Maybe they put glasses on Mona Lisa.   You know, maybe they gave her a cat to hold. So, I reward thinking outside the box. Now to to pour in beauty, and I think I might have heard this from Charlotte Mason, beauty in, beauty out.   So, you've got to load them with beauty. Now, I think that we were naturally drawn to beauty and people will argue with me about this. They'll say, well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   But I betcha I could find something that's beautiful and do a survey. And I betcha I could get 100% of people to say, yes, that's beautiful. And I could find something else, maybe a Hindu goddess sculpture.   And I could find something that 100% people would say that is not beautiful. And so, I think that ingrained in some of us because we're created by God, I think we have a sense of appreciating beauty. I do think that it gets taught out of a lot of people.   So, with my kids, I show them a lot of beauty. And this can be as simple as get a coffee table book from the secondhand bookstore on art and put it on your coffee table. Get books from the library and have lots of beautiful things to look at.   And so, when I now when I was teaching my own kids, this is kind of a fly by the seat of my pants. Make it up as I go. Now that they've left home and I can think about it, I'm putting together books that are a little bit more thoughtful.   So, in my books, you will see I've chosen a piece of art that is beautiful and I will pair it with the lesson. And then I'll give you an art activity. So, for example, in Into the Woods, you'll see I've chosen a beautiful piece of art and I paired it with a poem, which is another piece of beauty.   Yes. And then I'll give you an art lesson so that they can get creative with it as well. So, it is this hard to pull it together.   So that's why I'm making books to help parents. So, you have something beautiful and something to do with it. And so, that's how I pour in beauty to give a beauty in beauty out.   Laura Dugger: (21:59 - 22:36) I love that so much. And just even holding this resource, it is so beautiful. There's so much to it.   When it arrived, our daughters were delighted to go through it and to dive in and get to learn. But I'm just thinking many listeners are fellow homeschool parents and also many are not. But I don't want them to be discouraged because I'm even thinking of your courses or if they do intentional art in the evenings or on weekends or summer break and winter break.   There are still ways for all of us to incorporate this.   Courtney Sanford: (22:36 - 24:28) Yes, for sure. Yeah. Even so, my mom, I was public school.   And of course, the word hadn't been invented back then, but my mom appreciates art and poetry and she would always have art books on the coffee table. And I would just stop and, you know, in my free time, flip through the pages. And those images stuck with me my whole life.   She had one that had a Monet on the cover of the Field of Red Poppies. And that was just ingrained in my mind as a piece of beauty. So just something as simple as putting it out on your coffee table.   She also took us to museums whenever we traveled. And she didn't make a big lesson out of it, but I was exposed to beautiful buildings. You know, most museums are in beautiful buildings.   You see the beautiful architecture. And I was exposed to a lot of art that way. So, that was that totally goes with which with summer vacations and your vacations to, you know, make an effort to see a gallery or an art museum when you're traveling.   That makes a big difference. It'll make an impression on them. And of course, the books you could do in the summer.   We have summer classes and we have an art retreat that might not line up with school because it's in May. But the books you could for sure add on. Hopefully someday we'll have evening classes so that you could go to school.   We've got some this coming year that will start at four o'clock. So, hopefully some kids can go to school and come home and join an art class. So, we're working on getting it out as we as I get teachers willing to.   Most of my teachers are homeschool moms, too. And by the end of the day, they're tired. So, I've got a few.   I've got a young lady who's just graduating and she's going to do some late afternoon ones for us next year. So pretty excited about that.   Laura Dugger: (24:28 - 25:04) I love that. And then even thinking of the beauty and beauty out stepping outdoors. There's so much beauty in God's creation and so much change depending on where you live throughout the seasons.   But I love how you also brought up the library, because anytime I'm trying to learn something new, that's my first go to is put books on hold at the library. And so, if we're wanting to know what to add to our library cart just to get us started into this, can you share books that you recommend, both yours and others that you think would be good additions?   Courtney Sanford: (25:05 - 26:19) Oh, that's a good question. Yes, there are. I love to think about the biographies of artists.   And if so, if you're studying ancient history, you could look up a biography on Giotto. And they're still tell the stories in such a nice, kid friendly way. Like there's the story of Giotto.   He was actually watching the sheep. And while he was out in the fields, he would draw on the sides of rocks like big rocks. But you get another rock and you would draw on the sides of rocks.   And another artist was walking through one day and he saw these drawings on the rocks. He was like, wow, you're really talented. Come with me.   I'll make you an apprentice. And those stories are just they're fun to read together and hear those kinds of stories. And of course, the Usborne books of art are beautiful and they often have projects for the kids to do.   I can't think of any specific ones, but I do love a short paperback on the particular artists. And so, I kind of line those up along with the period in history that we're studying.   Laura Dugger: (26:20 - 26:32) That's great. And even you're making me think of picture book biographies on artists. We've always enjoyed those as well.   Obviously, the illustrations are fantastic, too, but the storylines are so interesting.   Courtney Sanford: (26:33 - 27:23) Yes. So, I just grab whatever they have. I had a big laundry basket.   And and I know card and I just grab whatever I could find and sometimes let the kids choose. And sometimes I would choose. If you're going with geography, you can find beautiful photos of the different areas.   See the landscapes or the sunsets. And that can through photography. And you can really get to know a place through beautiful photographs.   I like that part, too. And then that might inspire a pastel drawing of a landscape. Maybe it's a beautiful sunset you could recreate with pastels.   So, photography books are really inspirational, too.   Laura Dugger: (27:23 - 28:10) It's a great idea. And circling back, you had mentioned Andrew Pudewa earlier in our conversation. And I remember learning from him that with writing, the worst way we can teach our children is to say just free write, just write something down or here's a prompt to finish this sentence because better writing comes through imitating.   And so, you've even mentioned tracing is a great way to start. That's not cheating in art if you're not stealing credit from them. But if you're just practicing and tracing, this is a way to imitate.   And so, I'm wondering, do you have any other cautions for ways that may be the wrong way to introduce our kids to art?   Courtney Sanford: (28:11 - 30:50) I agree that. Yeah, you can get writer's block. What I find funny is that some people are so afraid to imitate artists.   But if I were teaching piano, I would teach your kid how to play something by Bach in which he would learn what Bach did. And nobody would say I'm stealing from Bach. You know, and you learn to play Beethoven by playing Beethoven and you you learn to reproduce those pieces of music.   I do the same thing in art. We look at what the masters did and we'll copy it in order to learn what they knew. And that way we build.   We're like standing on the shoulders of giants. So, we don't want every kid to have to start with inventing the wheel themselves. We'd never get very far.   We want to learn what the masters knew and then build on that. So, I do a lot of imitation. And then as the students ready, I let them know you are free to change this or to experiment with it.   So just last week we were drawing and painting red poppies and learning about Georgia O'Keeffe. And so, I said we can do an imitation of her poppy. And I'll show you step by step how to reproduce her poppy.   And in doing that, we're going to cause us to look more closely at it and study her blends. Like she would blend from yellow to orange to red in every petal. And we can study that technique.   And then as we do it and we practice it, we look more closely at hers and it kind of becomes a part of us. And then we'll find another flower and we'll use that same technique on a flower that we choose. Or maybe it's a flower we make up and we take that technique and we can apply it.   And it's a much better way to learn than trying to learn it yourself without looking at what the masters did. So, I think that I think I pulled a lot of that from Andrew Pudewa. The idea of I'm going to assist you until you say I got this.   I can do it from here. So, I do assist until they get it. And then I always say whenever you're ready, as soon as you're ready, change it and make it your own or do your own thing.   And because turning them loose too soon can break their confidence. So, you want to build them up until they can confidently experiment on their own.   Laura Dugger: (30:51 - 32:34) Let's take a quick break to hear a message from our sponsor. I'm so excited to share today's sponsor, WinShape Marriage, with you. WinShape Marriage is a fantastic ministry that helps couples prepare, strengthen, and if needed, even save their marriage.   WinShape Marriage is grounded on the belief that the strongest marriages are the ones that are nurtured, even if it seems like things are going smoothly. That way they'll be stronger if they do hit a bump along their marital journey. Through their weekend retreats, WinShape Marriage invites couples to enjoy time away to simply focus on each other.   These weekend retreats are hosted within the beautiful refuge of WinShape Retreat, perched in the mountains of Rome, Georgia, which is just a short drive from Atlanta, Birmingham, and Chattanooga. While you and your spouse are there, you'll be well-fed, well-nurtured, and well-cared for. During your time away in this beautiful place, you and your spouse will learn from expert speakers and explore topics related to intimacy, overcoming challenges, improving communication, and so much more.   I've stayed on site at WinShape before, and I can attest to their generosity, food, and content. You will be so grateful you went. To find an experience that's right for you and your spouse, head to their website, WinShapeMarriage.org.  That's W-I-N-S-H-A-P-E Marriage.org. Thanks for your sponsorship.    Well, and as parents, once we're past the resistance to maybe invest some of our time or our money or allow the mess into our home, but if we push past through that and we're ready to get started, I'd love to go over some practical tips.   So, Courtney, first, just what are some great art supplies to have on hand?   Courtney Sanford: (32:36 - 37:13) A number two pencil and some Crayola markers you probably already have. Those are great tools. I like to have my kids work in an art journal, and you can get these real inexpensive at Michael's.   It'll say on the cover, mixed media art Journal, and they come in different sizes. I kind of like the big ones, and that will allow you to use paint, pencil, and marker or anything you want. If it says sketchbook, it's not going to hold up to paint very well.   So that's why I get the mixed media paper. So, I start with the art journal, and then I like to make that journal be their book on a subject. So right now, I'm doing ancient history with some kids, and so they are making their own book about ancient history.   So, every week we'll do a drawing or a painting or watercolor on a lesson in ancient history. And so, each piece is not a masterpiece to hang on the wall. Each piece is a part of the story in their book.   That takes all the pressure off. So, they don't see this as, I don't know if this is going to be good enough to hang on the wall. That's not even a question.   It's a part of the story in your book. They can also take some notes. They can show their grandparents and review the topic by presenting it to their grandparents and showing off their book.   And then you can collect their books and put them on a shelf. It's not all over the house making you crazy. And then you can see from year to year how their skills have improved.   So, I kind of like every year I like pick a topic to be the subject of our art journal. So, I call it arts integrated learning. So, I'm pairing an academic subject with art for that year.   So, it could be poetry. It could be history. It could be science.   Whatever you pick. That's what you'll add to your art journal with.   Pencils. I like blending tools too. There are some people call them stompies.   For those of you who are watching. Here's one. It's just rolled up newspaper, but you can buy these at Michael's.   They're really cheap. But it takes a drawing to the next level. You can just blend things out and shade things really lovely.   Mark Kistler does some videos and teaches you how to. He'll go shade, shade, shade. And so that's a good way to start.   And it really elevates a drawing and it gives them a lot of confidence. And then of course the good eraser. The book drawing with children is a really good one for our parents to read and then teach from in that book.   They suggest you have them draw with markers so that they don't spend an hour erasing. If you have someone who's a perfectionist, they will make one mark and spend 20 minutes erasing it. And so, if you go right to drawing with markers, that's gonna teach them to make a good mark first and then keep going and not spend half an hour erasing.   When I get to age nine or 10, I like to use acrylic paints, but I only buy four colors of paint and then I make them mix all the other colors. So, we use yellow, magenta, blue, and white. Those are like the colors in your printer.   Cyan, magenta, and yellow are the ones in your printer. And those colors can make all the other colors. Now your printer has black, but I don't give kids black.   Instead of black, they could make purple or brown or dark color. So, you know, you teach them how to mix the colors that they want. They'll learn to mix it because they want green or they want purple, or they want brown.   And then they develop a sense of color theory, and you don't even have to teach it. They'll figure it out because they want those colors. If they find, if, if you don't feel confident in that, you can buy craft colors of the specific colors, especially brown.   That's a hard one to mix. But I do like the coverage of acrylic paints. I like watercolors too.   That's a little bit easier to get into. You just take it slow and practice a lot. So that's really all you need.   It's pretty simple.   Laura Dugger: (37:14 - 37:27) Well, and I'm wondering too, even with the acrylic paint at that age, once they're older, that one, I'm assuming can stain. So are there any tips that you have for containing the mess?   Courtney Sanford: (37:28 - 38:32) Yes, I get, and they're a little bit hard to find. So go to Amazon and find a, a tablecloth that is plastic on one side and felt on the other side. I forget what you call it, but there'll be like picnic tables, tablecloths.   And the plastic ones are going to drive you crazy because they're too thin. So, if it's flannel backed, it's a little bit thicker. So I get a white one at the beginning of the year.   And that comes out anytime we do clay or paint, and it goes over the kitchen table and I don't worry about cleaning it. You just let it dry, fold it up. And I put mine in the China cabinet right there by the table.   And then anytime we do something messy, that tablecloth comes out and, and then just fold the mess back up in it. And it works, it works really great to, and then you might, if you're, if you're a neat freak, maybe plan on buying one at the beginning of every school year so that you get clean slates. And then the paint that gets onto the tablecloth is actually lovely and it'll be pretty next time you get it out.   Laura Dugger: (38:33 - 39:11) Oh, I love that. That's a genius tip. I appreciate that for coming indoors because in the summer, I guess we could take it outside depending on where we live.   But then what about any hacks for finding the time to do this? And I guess I'm thinking back to a previous episode with Beth Rosenbleeth. She's the one who started Days with Grey and she would talk about different art prompts that she would set out for her children in the morning for a variety of ages.   But were there any things that kind of required minimal time from you, but had maximum return for your kids?   Courtney Sanford: (39:11 - 41:06) Yeah, that's a good point. I had, I wouldn't say I had a strict schedule, but I had a pattern to my days. And the time after lunch was a good time to do messy things in the kitchen because we were in the kitchen anyway.   And as I could clean up lunch and start dinner, I could be in the kitchen with them and they could be creative at the kitchen table with minimum involvement from me. One of my best afternoons was we had the microscopes out to do something specific and I left it out as I was cooking chili. And as I cut up each ingredient, I would cut a thin slice for them to look at under the microscope.   And so they were looking at a bell pepper and a red pepper and celery and tomato. And they were so, they so enjoyed that and I was able to cook dinner at the same time, which was fabulous. And that turned, it was probably like a 15-minute science lesson into like four hours of discovering things under the microscope.   So that element of play and you can do that with your art supplies too. Like I'll demonstrate a technique and then leave it out. I'll turn my attention to cooking dinner while they see what else they can do with it.   And, um, you know, I'll give them a few tips. Like, um, if you mix these three colors together, you're going to make brown and then turn your back and let them discover it for themselves. So, um, I'm a big crock pot person.   And so after lunch would be the time I need to clean up lunch and put something in the crock pot. So that would be a good time for me to get them started on art or science and, um, and then turn my back and let them have that, um, that discovery time without me hovering or telling them what to do or something.   Laura Dugger: (41:06 - 41:22) Oh, that's a great rhythm. I love these ideas. And then I kind of want to go in chunks of age.   So, thinking of little kids, how would you define the difference between a piece of art and a craft?   Courtney Sanford: (41:23 - 43:41) Yeah, a craft is going to be something where the focus is on following directions and that's important. They need to learn how to follow directions. And so we would do, especially around the holidays, I might do a craft and we all follow directions.   Um, a piece of art is going to be where they're, they all come out different. They're allowed to play and express themselves. Um, for me personally, if I'm doing a craft when I'm done, I think, oh, I could make 50 of these and sell them.   If it's an art, when I'm done with a piece of art, like one of these paintings behind me, when I'm done with that, I'm thinking I could never do that again. That took so much out of me. I'm exhausted.   A little piece of my soul is in that that's art. That's the difference. Um, so I don't sell my paintings because there's a little piece of my soul in, um, my husband makes fun of me for that.   He's like, you could just sell your paintings. They're like, what? They're, they're like my babies.   I can't, I can't part with them. It took so much out of me to create them. Um, but a craft, yeah, I'll just give away things that are, that I just followed directions for, um, in terms of kids, younger kids will enjoy crafts, but getting to high school, they recognize it as slave labor and they don't want to do that.   They are in what the classical education people call the, the, um, poetic stage, you know, they want to express themselves and they want to be unique. I think this is why they get tattoos. The tattoo is a way of saying this is who I am.   This is what it means to me. I'm unique. Um, so I think if we don't teach them to express themselves in art, they're going to get tattoos.   So that might encourage moms to, to give them the skills so that they can express themselves. You know, they need to be able to write poetry or write songs or paint a painting or do a drawing. There's that need inside of us to do that that God put in us.   And if they don't have an outlet, then they're going to find something like tattoos or something that we don't want them to be doing. Yeah. I mean, some of my kids are tattooed.   It's not bad.   Laura Dugger: (43:42 - 44:25) Well, and you've kind of answered a follow-up question I had because we talked about little kids, but I'm thinking of teens. So going back, my background is in marriage and family therapy, and we would encourage everyone that journaling is a free form of therapy. But I think of art as the same way.   And there's even studies that show when you're engaged in something artistic, the critical side of your brain goes offline. So you can't think negative thoughts while you're creating something new, but with teens, there's that added benefit of getting to express themselves. So is there anything else with art that you see as basically free therapy for adolescents?   Courtney Sanford: (44:26 - 46:54) Oh, sure. I do see it a lot. I experienced it because I started my business because of the shutdown and because I was teaching in person and then I had to switch to online teaching.   And so, the group that I had moved online and I figured out how to do it and got a little bit better at it. And then that summer I offered a class for adults. These were directors and I was in classical conversations at the time.   And so a whole bunch of teachers are expected to teach Western cultural history without a lot of background. And so some of the moms asked me if I would do my art class for them. And so I had about a group of like 50 adults and we would get on for an hour and a half every day.   And this was at the height of the shutdown when turning on the news, just stresses you out. Going to the grocery store was stressful because people were in masks or they weren't in masks or, you know, we didn't know anything. It was such a stressful time, but that hour and a half that we had together, we, our focus was on discovering a piece of art.   So, we were looking at beautiful things and then we were creating something and that changed our focus from what was going on in the world. And we would just relax, and we'd enjoy it. Having the live class kept our focus on it.   And when I don't have a live class in front of me, I'll be like, oh, I should put the laundry in or I should start dinner and I get distracted. But with that, you know, with other people on zoom, it keeps me focused. And so, we'd have this wonderful hour and a half vacation from the world.   And after it was over, I would just have this sense of peace. And then I'd come down and be like, oh yeah, that's still going on. And it was, it was so good for our mental health.   And, and I get, I hear moms tell me that the hour and a half once a week they spend with me doing art has been such a blessing. Like one student lost her father a year ago and this is helping her. She said she's finally coming out of her depression and she's finding a way to express herself and find beauty again.   And it's, it's been transformative for some students. So, it is a blessing. And I didn't, I didn't read that somewhere.   That's just from my experience. So, I'm a big believer in that.   Laura Dugger: (46:54 - 47:51) I can see why I think you're bringing up two points. I don't want to miss both with art therapy and then also art in community. So art and community first, I think for all of us at any age, what can we do as this is airing probably when everybody's getting out for summertime, how can we gather others alongside of us for whether it's our kids or us as peers to get to engage in these activities together.   And so, I want to follow up with you on that, but also before I lose my thought, I also want to link back to Karen Pence's episode. She had started art therapy for veterans, I believe, and just incredible. The healing that is possible through this.   So, do you have any thoughts Courtney on ways that we can this summer gather together community at different ages and do something artistic?   Courtney Sanford: (47:51 - 52:15) That is a good question. So, we have, I have found the online classes are the easiest for people to get to. And it's I get people ask if we can do it in person, but honestly it's hard to get people out or they're busy.   They're doing things in summer. So, we do offer a class online in the summer that's live. We have recorded classes that you could do alone or get a few people together and, do them together.   I have some sampler packs too. So, some of them are just three lessons. You could get some friends together and find, maybe you could find three, three times during the summer to do.   I have like a Vango sampler pack and a couple of short ones that you could just pay for the video and do with your friends or maybe a mother daughter event. Maybe you do the self-paced class with your daughter. And I've had some seniors, like seniors in high school, do a mother daughter class together and just say, this is such a good time for us to spend a little bit of time together, a little bonus time before they go off to college.   During the school year, we have, I have a watercolor artist friends. She lives near me and she's a professional watercolor artist and she does the class called Bible journaling. And that is a beautiful combination of a devotion and a watercolor time together.   Those are hour and a half classes too. And they meet once a week. And we sometimes we'll have grandmas, we'll have high school students, we'll have mother daughter pairs do it together.   And they actually have a little prayer time, a little study of scripture. And then then Kate teaches them step-by-step how to do a beautiful watercolor and incorporate some hand lettering in it. So that's just a beautiful fun time together.   So I highly recommend her class during the school year. If, if a mom could get away, or if you have a high school daughter to do it together, that is a great experience. And then I have a short version of art history that you could do with friends or your high school daughter.   It's called paint your way through marvelous to behold, which is just 12 lessons that goes through. And that's a variety of drawing and painting. If you wanted to do something like that.   So, lots of things, or you can check out the books. And if you feel confident following step-by-step instructions in a book, you could use the book or a combination of videos and books. If you're feeling kind of like you could lead a art group, you could get the cell page video, watch the video and then do, you know, exactly what I said, do that live with a group.   And if you have any art experience doing that, you could get, probably get, I would like invite all the homeschool moms in your co-op group to get together. And I do some, sometimes I'll go to do a mom's group, do a watercolor or I love to do the milkmaid with moms because the milkmaid is this beautiful painting from the Dutch masters of a woman cooking. She's just pouring milk.   I think she's making bread pudding and it's just so beautiful. It's like, what I think I look like homeschooling. I'm wearing like a long gold gown and those suns coming in and everything's perfect.   I'm like, this is the ideal. This is what I think homeschooling is going to look like. And then I kind of use that painting as a launch pad for painting Delft tiles from the period.   And so sometimes I'll, I'll do that with some homeschool moms because I like to encourage homeschool moms. I know it's hard. And I had some mentors when I was homeschooling that I really appreciated.   So, I'm always happy to, to be the support and be able to say it's worth it. Keep going. I know you're driving a crappy car, but it will be worth it.   And so, the sacrifices you make now totally pay off. And you know, before I know it, my son is going to be homeschooling his daughter. She's seven months now, but it's going to fly by, you know, she'll be four before you know it.   And I'll be teaching her how to paint. I suppose.   Laura Dugger: (52:16 - 53:13) When was the first time you listened to an episode of The Savvy Sauce? How did you hear about our podcast? Did a friend share it with you?   Will you be willing to be that friend now and text five other friends or post on your socials, anything about The Savvy Sauce that you love? If you share your favorite episodes, that is how we continue to expand our reach and get the good news of Jesus Christ in more ears across the world. So, we need your help.   Another way to help us grow is to leave a five-star review on Apple podcasts. Each of these suggestions will cost you less than a minute, but it will be a great benefit to us. Thank you so much for being willing to be generous with your time and share. We appreciate you.    I don't want to miss what website to direct everyone to. If they want to sign up for one of these classes, where's the best place to follow up?   Courtney Sanford: (53:14 - 54:27) Go to delightfulartco.com and on that page, you'll see live classes, self-paced classes, summer retreats. I've done adult retreats before. I'd be open to doing it again if people want to.   So, I have, I would call it private retreats. So, if you want to get a group of women together, maybe somebody has a beach house, I'll come and do the art. It could be a one day, two day, or three-day event.   So that's an option. And we have self-paced classes. So, lots of things to look at.   I have a lot of sample classes on the website too. If you want to drop in and see what they're like. I think there's a how to paint Monet's water lilies is on the site.   You can watch that and see what it's like. Some people are afraid to try an online art class, but we all loved Bob Ross, and we watched him. So, if you can imagine saying, Bob, stop, could you do that again?   That's what my classes are like, and I'll be happy to stop and show you again. And then you can hold up your work at the end and I can give you some feedback. So, I'm like the new Bob Ross.   Laura Dugger: (54:27 - 54:46) There you go. That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that.   And Courtney, I just have a couple more questions for you. If let's turn it back to parenting. If we want to get started today and we just want next step to get started.   What is an art prompt that we can still try today?   Courtney Sanford: (54:47 - 57:26) I would look at what you're, what, what are you teaching your kids? So, if you're teaching them, maybe you have a library book on the coffee table that you're studying biology. Pull out one thing from that and draw what you see and reproduce that.   Just one drawing a week. And before you know it, you'll have a whole biology book. So, I like to instead of saying parents, you have to add on another course.   You have to add art to everything else you're doing. Slide it into what you're already doing and it will enhance what they remember about that. And it's not like a whole other subject.   So just use art as a tool to help them remember what you want them to learn anyway. So, anything you want them to teach, if you have a photo or a drawing, have them trace it or draw it. I actually another good way to start is if you have little kids and Bible story time, let them draw what you're reading about.   My son loved to do stick figures. So, I have the whole Bible told in stick figures from when I'm from my youngest kid. And it is fabulous, especially like Sodom and Gomorrah.   And, you know, there's a lot of violent stuff. Boys love that stuff. So, he illustrated a lot of the Old Testament because I read it every morning, and he would just draw what he heard me.   I think I was using the Children's Illustrated Bible. So, he had some things to look at. That's another great way to get started.   Just let them look at the story and draw in their own art journal. So, there's so many fun ways you can use it in every subject. I had a mom tell me she read me an email.   She said, my daughter is just blooming in your classes. I wish every subject could be taught with an art journal and a paint palette. And I replied, we're working on it.   We're we've got we've got Latin and art, science and art, literature and art. There's just so many ways to find inspiration and what you're already studying and find the beauty in that subject. So, in our site, our art and biology course, students do a beautiful watercolor of the DNA strand.   And they draw the cell in watercolor. And it's just beautiful. And it helps them remember it and practices their art skills.   So, it's like a two for one. Think of it as a two for one. Take art and put it in another subject.   Laura Dugger: (57:26 - 57:46) I love win wins. That sounds amazing. And Courtney, I just have one final question for you today.   We are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so is my final question for you today. What is your savvy sauce?   Courtney Sanford: (57:47 - 58:15) The beauty, in beauty out, has been kind of my savvy sauce and also as unto the Lord. So, whatever I do, I do as unto the Lord. If I'm homeschooling, I'm teaching biology.   I'm going to do as unto the Lord. I'm not going to hand out a worksheet. I'm going to make it.   I'm going to make it a great experience. So, I would have to say whatever you do, do it wholeheartedly as unto the Lord and not for men.   Laura Dugger: (58:16 - 58:36) What a great place to end. Courtney, you are so inspiring. You've given us great ideas and kind of confidence to get to put this into practice.   Even if we're not artists like you, we're all created in God's image and therefore can be creative. So, thank you for your time and wisdom today. Thank you so much for being my guest.   Courtney Sanford: (58:37 - 58:40) You are sure welcome. I had a great time. It's good to talk to you.   Laura Dugger: (58:41 - 1:02:25) You as well. One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.   We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?   Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?   We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.   If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.   We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.   Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.   I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.   I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Today, Amy Lowe and Emily Alters sit down with two incredible parents who have launched their kids into adulthood and are now navigating the empty nest season—Jeff Stryker and Lynn Alters. Between them, Jeff and Lynn bring decades of parenting wisdom to the table. Both of their families have deep roots at WinShape Camps, with kids who spent summers growing up at camp and are now faithfully following Jesus in their own unique callings. These two empty nesters reflect on their parenting journeys—sharing both meaningful wins and honest missteps—and offer practical advice and encouragement for moms and dads still in the thick of it. Whether you're raising little ones or teenagers, their insight brings encouragement and perspective for the road ahead.Parenting truth we're holding onto today: You won't do everything perfectly—but being intentional, present, and Christ-centered matters more than you think.Plus: Don't miss what Jeff and Lynn are still learning—even after raising kids into adulthood.--Question of the Week: What is something I'm doing well (as a parent)? What is something I could work on (as a parent)?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Emily AltersGuest: Lynn Alters, Jeff StrykerProducers: Emily Alters & Cody Braun--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

Marriage can begin with the excitement of dating, engagement, and a wedding. What happens though after the newness of a life together begins to wear off? Genee Francis, Assistant Director at WinShape Marriage will join Mornings With Eric and Brigitte on Friday to discuss ways to keep the marriage ties strong. WinShape MarriageDonate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshow/wrmbSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guest: Genee FrancisOrganization: WinShape MarriagePosition: Assistant Director, Content and ProgrammingTopic: discussion of six types of intimacy in marriageWebsite: winshapemarriage.org

Guest: Genee FrancisOrganization: WinShape MarriagePosition: Assistant Director, Content and ProgrammingTopic: discussion of six types of intimacy in marriageWebsite: winshapemarriage.org

In the 1970s, the Oxford English Dictionary, coined the phrase "work-life balance." Research by the World Economic Forum found that 48% would leave a job if it prevented them from enjoying their life. On Friday's Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Julie Baumgardner from Winshape Marriage will share how although we can't stop the world from changing and evolving, we can be equipped for our families. Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshow/wrmbSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Amy and Sara sit down with David Blanchard, Director of Fellows at Impact 360, to explore practical ways parents can help Generation Z develop a lasting faith. Drawing from over 15 years of experience in discipleship and drawing insights from the latest Barna research, David shares strategies for equipping kids to know God deeply, build strong character, and live out their faith with kingdom influence. He emphasizes the importance of moving from a consumer mindset to a multiplier mindset in discipleship and offers actionable tips for fostering meaningful faith conversations at home. Tune in for encouragement and actionable advice on raising faith-filled kids in today's world.Research: 5 Things You Need to Know About Gen Z in 2024 by Barna ResearchBook: Know. Be. Live. by John D. BasieImpact 360 Institution--Questions of the Week: How is your generation different from my generation?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesGuest: David BlanchardProducers: Emily Alters & Cody Braun--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps 

Did you know that about 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas? In the U.S., Christmas has become a largely cultural event filled with twinkling lights, jingle bells, and festive carols. While those traditions contain a special kind of magic, it's easy to let the busyness of the season overshadow the real reason we celebrate. In this episode, Amy and Sara share practical ways to slow down the holiday hustle and create meaningful moments with your kids that keep Jesus at the center of it all. From advent devotionals to baking, they offer 10 simple ways to shine a light on Jesus and make this Christmas not just merry, but deeply meaningful.Blog: 10 Ways to Keep Jesus at the Center of ChristmasAdvent Video Series by The Bible ProjectFree Family Advent Guide by LifewayBook: Advent Blocks Tradition SetCookbook: Bake through the Bible at ChristmasUnwrap Camp for Christmas--Questions of the Week: What is your favorite Christmas tradition that we do as a family, and why?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesProducers: Emily Alters & Cody Braun--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

In the 1970s, the Oxford English Dictionary, coined the phrase "work-life balance." Research by the World Economic Forum found that 48% would leave a job if it prevented them from enjoying their life. On Monday's Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Julie Baumgardner from Winshape Marriage will share how although we can't stop the world from changing and evolving, we can be equipped for our families. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Julie Baumgardner is the Senior Director of WinShape Marriage. She had a moment of realization recently, that as a society, we value agelessness. We want clear skin with no wrinkles, perfect hair with no gray streaks, and capable bodies with no external evidence of decay. But as Christians, what if we thought about age differently? Do we need to continually try to defy the aging process in a desperate attempt to remain 'young?' Julie encourages you to embrace this season of life and what God has for you today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this week's episode of The Redeemed Marriage podcast, Rusty and Heather share their incredible journey from a marriage in crisis to a ministry to other marriages. They reflect on their first experience at WinShape Marriage nearly 20 years ago, back it was still under construction and part of a dream to help broken marriages. Fast forward to 2011, after Heather's confession of an affair, they returned to WinShape for a life-changing marriage intensive that helped save their relationship. Now, as part of the Marriage Collective, Rusty and Heather have come full circle with their latest trip to WinShape. Join them as they recount their powerful testimony of redemption and offer hope to couples in every season of marriage. WinShape Marriage Hope Restored Marriage Intensive - Focus on the Family

Global Leadership Podcast team members Eric Case and Aubrey Wentz recently sat down with Julie Baumgardner, Senior Director of WinShape Marriage, to discuss the relationship between the health of our home and relational worlds and our work performance.  Julie has spent over 20 years working—first as a counselor and now as an executive-level leader—to build healthy families, and in this conversation with Eric and Aubrey she shares how work life can be impacted by challenges at home and offers some practical tips for starting healthy conversations that can lead to healing.

Marriage isn’t something that just happens to you. It is carefully built and nurtured every day. You and your spouse are called to show up, even on the hard days, to do the work. In marriage, we become both the stewards and recipients of a complex and lifelong gift. Wednesday on Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Julie Baumgardner, Director of WinShape Marriage shares her insights on four tools that couples, new and seasoned, will need along their marriage journey. 2024 is Going to Be a Big Year for ProposalsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We say, "I do" with the best of intentions. And then... LIFE. In this episode Julie Baumgardner, Senior Director of WinShape Marriage, is here to provide us with the tools to do marriage well, and if needed, really turn things around.   Resources mentioned in this episode: - First Things First - WinShape Marriage o   Visioning For Your Marriage o   Marriage Intensives - The WinShape Foundation - WinShape Camps - WinShape Homes -  WinShape Teams - Get your own FREE RightNow Media account compliments of Rock Harbor Church FL - Created for Connection: The "Hold Me Tight" Guide for Christian Couples By Dr. Sue Johnson - Talking Marriage with Gary Thomas – The Intertwined Life Podcast, Ep: 58 - Follow WinShape Marriage on IG   Find all Scripture references from this episode at ⁠http://jennyzentz.com/podcast-winshape-marriage⁠ Enter to Win a FREE BOOK! Each month, take a screen shot of you reviewing or sharing the show, and email it to me at Jenny@jennyzentz.com. Each month on the 1st I will draw a name, and the winner will get to pick any book you like from "Jenny's Recommended Reads for Christian Women" list as a FREE gift from me to you!   Printable Scripture Memorization Cards – NOW ON SALE!   The Bible tells us the Word of God is our weapon. Are you ready to take on whatever life brings your way?   Perhaps nothing has strengthened my walk with the Lord more than memorizing scripture. When we have spent time meditating on His Word, these verses will rise up in our spirits when we need them most.   With these printable scripture cards (one for each week of the year) you can begin truly hiding His Word in your heart and taking practical steps to a powerful life and a more grounded faith. Get Yours Today! And please don't forget to subscribe, share, rate, and review. Together we can help more women discover practical ways to apply the power of God's Word to our everyday stuff!   *Please note resource links may be affiliate links. I will receive a small percentage from purchases made through them to help compensate for content creation time, effort, and cost. Happy Shopping!

Julie Baumgardner's love for all things marriage and family comes from her own experience trying to navigate life after her parents' divorce. Her passion to help people create healthy, vibrant relationships has taken her on an incredible 35+ year journey from counseling teens and at risk couples to speaking nationally and internationally, creating classes and resources for married couples, hosting a television show, and writing a weekly marriage and family newspaper column. Intentional Living and Marriage Planning in a Frantic World | Julie Baumgardner Senior Director of WinShape Marriage Find an upcoming marriage retreat and invest in your marriage: https://marriage.winshape.org -- Welcome to the Wholehearted Leader hosted by Lantz Howard. I am here to help faith-driven entrepreneurs have a killer business, a passionate marriage, and live on mission.My purpose is your flourishing.One conversation could shift everything right now.Lantz is a trained marriage therapist, professional executive business coach, and organizational health leader. www.lantzhoward.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/lantzhoward https://www.instagram.com/lantzhoward

In this episode, Amy Lowe and Sara Jones are joined by Mike McGuire who works with WinShape Camps for Families and is a father of 2. Today we are talking about creating meaningful and memorable family experiences. Mike dives into the significance of creating memorable family experiences to help disciple and engage our kids, and point them to Jesus. And if you're interested in finding a Family Camp experience, we are going to give you a glimpse of what you can expect at a WinShape Camps for Families experience.Learn more about Family Camp!Blog: How Intentional Experiences Can Impact Your FamilyQuestion of the Week: What is a regular thing we do in our house that you are glad we do? And why?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesGuest: Mike McGuireProducers: Emily Alters & Cody Braun--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

In this episode, Amy Lowe and Sara Jones explore the significance of identifying your family values, drawing from personal experience and biblical Truth!  Identifying your family values can help set a tone and a vision for your family. When called out, they may serve as a compass for your family, especially when rooted in biblical truth. In this episode, Amy Lowe and Sara Jones share an enlightening conversation around the topic of identifying your family values, discussing their significance and sharing practical steps to how you can determine these together as a family.PDF: 100 Commonly Held Values for Your FamilyBook: Know What You're FORBook: A Legacy That LastsQuestion of the Week: What do you want to be known for?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesProducers: Emily Alters & Cody BraunAudio Engineer: Michael Cardillo--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

A recent report revealed that Americans in relationships feel pressure to spend a lot on their partners on February 14th. It's reported that 25% of Gen Z and Millennials said they’d sacrifice a living expense like gas or groceries to be extra romantic on February 14th, but half of the recipients didn’t even like their gifts! Julie Baumgardner is the Director of WinShape Marriage, and speaks to navigating the pressures of Valentine's Day and the importance of dating your spouse all year round.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

 In this episode, Amy Lowe and Sara Jones explore the transformative impact of speaking spiritual truths and encouragement over our kids. Then, they share some practical examples of how we can shine a light on milestone moments in our kids lives to make them feel special. When life gets busy, these ideas can often get innocently lost in the wake of our packed schedules. Pulling from resources and personal experience, Amy and Sara  share how we can practically build these rhythms of intentionality into our everyday parenting.Book: The BlessingJournal: My Mommy and Me: A Keepsake and Activity BookJournal: Parent Child Connection JournalPDF: Powerful Blessings to Give Your KidsQuestions of the Week: What is something you have been wanting us to do as a family that we haven't done yet?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesProducers: Emily Alters & Cody BraunAudio Engineer: Michael Cardillo--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

The holidays can bring out a lot of different feelings for many of us. For couples who are struggling, the state of their marriage can feel like a stark contrast to some of the "pictures" they've seen during the Christmas season. On Thursday's Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Julie Munz Baumgardner, Senior Director of Winshape Marriage joins us to share some ideas of what couples can do as they begin 2024 to "set a vision" or reframe their relationship for the start of the New Year.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

No one loves talking finances, but we do think you'll love today's conversation with Julie Baumgardner! Julie shares how to get curious about what money means to your spouse, how two spouses' separate financial backgrounds and “money stories” can stop being a source of tension, and start becoming a shared value.  Listen to this episode if you're ready to get on the same page with your spouse about finances this season - without fighting about them!    Episode highlights include:    Questions to start a productive conversation about finances with your spouse How to uncover the hidden money lessons you learned growing up, then to get on the same page with your spouse.  What recent research says about the connection of money and marital happiness  How to learn more about your spouse's perspective about money  Ways to work together toward shared values around money in your marriage   Subscribe to Podcast Email to make sure you never miss an episode. When you sign up, you will get our 4 Week Connection Challenge for free! Plus you will get noteworthy quotes, resources, and more delivered straight to your inbox.   *Music for this podcast is created by Noah Copeland. Check him out here!    QUOTES: “You have different perspectives about money. You don't necessarily talk about what it means to you, how you think about it, therefore you argue about it.” - Julie Baumgardner   “You can have conversations about money without having to be methodical about every single penny.” - Julie Baumgardner  “If you can't figure out how to live within your means with a little, it will be very complicated to figure out how to live within your means with a lot.” - Julie Baumgardner  “It isn't ‘You're right, I'm wrong,' you're being curious. And in being curious, you're learning.” - Julie Baumgardner  “If you can tell that money is creating stress, what is it about money that's stressful?” - Julie Baumgardner  “Keep your eyes wide open for where God is calling you to join Him in his work. Be aware, and where you see a need, be a Kingdom builder. ” - Julie Baumgardner    QUESTIONS FOR YOU: What matters most to the two of you when it comes to money? It's never too late to define your core values around money in your marriage.  What is it about money that's stressful?  If it's “what ifs," then name the what-ifs and talk through them.    MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:  We found Julie's article on this topic SO helpful: Do finances in childhood impact your marriage? Research says yes Winshape Marriage online and on Instagram Find the Money Habitudes game online 

No one loves talking finances, but we do think you'll love today's conversation with Julie Baumgardner! Julie shares how to get curious about what money means to your spouse, how two spouses' separate financial backgrounds and “money stories” can stop being a source of tension, and start becoming a shared value.  Listen to this episode if you're ready to get on the same page with your spouse about finances this season - without fighting about them!    Episode highlights include:    Questions to start a productive conversation about finances with your spouse How to uncover the hidden money lessons you learned growing up, then to get on the same page with your spouse.  What recent research says about the connection of money and marital happiness  How to learn more about your spouse's perspective about money  Ways to work together toward shared values around money in your marriage *Music for this podcast is created by Noah Copeland. Check him out here!    QUOTES: “You have different perspectives about money. You don't necessarily talk about what it means to you, how you think about it, therefore you argue about it.” - Julie Baumgardner   “You can have conversations about money without having to be methodical about every single penny.” - Julie Baumgardner  “If you can't figure out how to live within your means with a little, it will be very complicated to figure out how to live within your means with a lot.” - Julie Baumgardner  “It isn't ‘You're right, I'm wrong,' you're being curious. And in being curious, you're learning.” - Julie Baumgardner  “If you can tell that money is creating stress, what is it about money that's stressful?” - Julie Baumgardner  “Keep your eyes wide open for where God is calling you to join Him in his work. Be aware, and where you see a need, be a Kingdom builder. ” - Julie Baumgardner    QUESTIONS FOR YOU: What matters most to the two of you when it comes to money? It's never too late to define your core values around money in your marriage.  What is it about money that's stressful?  If it's “what ifs," then name the what-ifs and talk through them.    MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:  We found Julie's article on this topic SO helpful: Do finances in childhood impact your marriage? Research says yes Winshape Marriage online and on Instagram Find the Money Habitudes game online 

It's so natural to put ourselves at the end of the line, as parents. We have to remember that prioritizing our own wellness, is not only good for our soul, but good for our marriage and children as well. In this episode, Amy Lowe and Sara Jones are joined by the Senior Director of WinShape Marriage - Julie Baumgardner. Julie starts by emphasizing the importance and benefits of taking time for ourselves, as parents. Then, she shares some practical ways parents can prioritize wellness for themselves, and their family as a whole.WinShape Marriage Retreats WebsiteWinShape Marriage Social MediaQuestion of the Week: What should be some of the most important things to our family?--Hosts: Amy Lowe & Sara JonesGuest: Julie BaumgardnerProducers: Emily Alters & Cody BraunAudio Engineer: Michael Cardillo--Learn more about WinShape Camps at WinShapeCamps.org!Instagram: @WinShapeCampsTikTok: @WinShapeCampsFacebook: @WinShapeCamps

Money is known to be the number one issue married couples argue about, with more than a third blaming finances for the stress they experience in their relationship. This season, with the year’s high inflation and rising costs, the holidays may not feel so “merry & bright” for many. On Friday's Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Julie Munz Baumgardner, Senior Director of Winshape Marriage joins us to provide insightful and practical ways couples can successfully navigate — or avoid altogether — financial disagreements this holiday season.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Julie Baumgardner, Director of WinShape Marriage, discussed principles that couples can incorporate into their marriages that are related to money. She referred to a column she had written for The Christian Post about marital harmony on money. The WinShape Marriage website is winshapemarriage.com, where you can find an article called, How to Talk About Finances Before Marriage.

Julie Baumgardner, Director of WinShape Marriage, discussed principles that couples can incorporate into their marriages that are related to money. She referred to a column she had written for The Christian Post about marital harmony on money. The WinShape Marriage website is winshapemarriage.com, where you can find an article called, How to Talk About Finances Before Marriage.

Without realizing it, we begin to lay the foundation for our adult ideals about money much earlier than most people think. Financial disagreements are the number one fight among newly-married couples. But it's not that couples don't want to talk about finances...they just don't know how. Julie Baumgardner director of WinShape Marriage joins Kelli and Steve to talk about it. Copyright WGNR Radio 2023See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bryan and I have gone to several retreats at Winshape Marriage (which we LOVE) so today I'm taking out my notes and sharing some of the highlights on what I learned! This is helpful if you are married or want to be one day.   Curious Elixirs Booze free cocktails and save $10 with promo code Katie22 Info on Katie's mentoring Follow Katie on Instagram and TikTok Get your "I don't date dirtbags" tote Join the Truth for your Twenties Facebook group

ulie Munz Baumgardner from Winshape Marriagec speaks about myths concerning marriage that can do more harm than good.  Winshape Marriage is a Christ-centered retreat ministry founded by Chick-fil-A's Truett Cathy. More information is available online at http://www.WinshapeMarriage.org.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's Valentine's Day weekend! So how can we keep our relationships alive? Ed Stetzer talks with Winshape Marriage's Julie Baumgardner about common marriage myths that can trip us up, if our relationships don't always meet those mythical expectations. They'll also talk about how you can set a vision for your marriage so it will grow and thrive throughout your lifetime. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's Valentine's Day weekend!  So how can we keep our relationships alive?  Ed Stetzer talks with Winshape Marriage's Julie Baumgardner about common marriage myths that can trip us up, if our relationships don't always meet those mythical expectations.  They'll also talk about how you can set a vision for your marriage so it will grow and thrive throughout your lifetime.  

After an affair in 2011, Rusty and Heather's marriage was on the road to recovery following a marriage intensive with WinShape Marriage in Rome, GA. On this episode, they visit with Julie Baumgardner, Senior Director of WinShape Marriage. WinShape offers a variety of marriage resources for all couples, including retreats and intensives. Julie shares a number of resources that you can use to take the "next step" in your marriage. WinShape Marriage - https://marriage.winshape.org/ The Redeemed Marriage - https://www.theredeemedmarriage.com/ Marriage Intensive - https://hoperestored.focusonthefamily.com/

Senior Director of WinShape Marriage, Julie Baumgardner, offered insight into how married couples, especially during the holidays, can walk with a sense of harmony about financial matters, even though their approaches might be different. You can find out more at winshapemarriage.org. 

Senior Director of WinShape Marriage, Julie Baumgardner, offered insight into how married couples, especially during the holidays, can walk with a sense of harmony about financial matters, even though their approaches might be different. You can find out more at winshapemarriage.org. 

We all know plenty of couples where one spouse is the spender and the other one is the saver. Julie Baumgardner, Senior Director of WinShape Marriage, shares how you can get on the same page in regard to finances. Julie provides a few practical suggestions for couples facing financial difficulties this holiday season and can't afford as many gifts - or any gifts - for their children or others this year.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Money is known to be the number one issue married couples argue about, with more than a third blaming finances for the stress they experience in their relationship. This season, with the year’s high inflation and rising costs, the holidays may not feel so “merry & bright” for many. On Friday's Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, , Julie Munz Baumgardner, Senior Director of Winshape Marriage joins us to provide insightful and practical ways couples can successfully navigate — or avoid altogether — financial disagreements this holiday season.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Are you a spender married to a saver, or perhaps the other way around? Do you usually agree on your Christmas spending budget, or do you think your spouse buys for too many people? So many marriages struggle with these kinds of financial issues, especially around the holidays. On this episode, Julie Baumgardner, Certified Family Life Educator and Senior Director of Winshape Marriage is joining us to offer some hope and some practical help so you don't have to dread the holidays when it comes to your finances. Join in for a great conversation and some encouraging insight. https://marriage.winshape.org Find our show notes at https://expeditionmarriage.org/post/podcast/ep-83-navigating-holiday-finances-without-all-the-stress-with-julie-baumgardner/ Follow us! https://www.instagram.com/expedition_marriage/ https://pinterest/expedition_marriage.org Subscribe on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@expeditionmarriage

Since financial compatibility is rarely discussed before a couple makes a long-term commitment, it has become one of the most difficult hurdles in a marriage. Money is known to be the number one issue married couples argue about, with more than a third blaming finances for the stress they experience in their relationship. This season, with the year's high inflation and rising costs, the holidays may not feel so “merry & bright” for many. Senior Director of Winshape Marriage, Julie Munz Baumgardner discusses with host Sue Duffield, insightful and practical ways couples can successfully navigate — or avoid altogether — financial disagreements this Christmas. As a passionate champion for families, Julie has nearly 40 years of experience in helping marriages and families thrive. Prior to joining WinShape, she spent 20 years as the President/CEO of First Thing First. Julie currently chairs the Board of Directors for the National Association for Relationship & Marriage Education. She presented at the White House Conference on Helping America's Youth and testified on Capitol Hill about the benefits of marriage. She is a nationally sought-after speaker at conferences, parenting seminars and marriage retreats where she gives talks on strengthening marriage, preparing for parenthood and navigating the complexities of motherhood. She is a Certified Family Life Educator and Certified Crisis Intervener. Julie and her husband, Jay, have been married since 1989. They are the proud parents of an adult daughter, Ashley. Julie enjoys gardening, horseback riding, cooking, working with children, and mentoring couples. www.marriagedynamics.com

In part two we discuss what she shared in Amsterdam for a huge international conference as well as her answers to the top 10 most asked questions about dating and relationships! Thanks for listening! For 23 years, Julie Baumgardner was part of the First Things First leadership team, serving 19 of those years as the president and CEO. In January 2021, Julie took on a new role as the Senior Director of WinShape Marriage for the WinShape Foundation. During her tenure at First Things First, the award-winning nonprofit dedicated to strengthening families in Chattanooga, Tennessee, generated model duplication efforts nationwide and garnered international attention for its outstanding leadership in family, marriage and parenting issues. As a passionate advocate for helping people have healthy relationships, Julie reached hundreds of thousands each week through her Chattanooga Times Free Press column and as host of JulieB TV, a YouTube-based talk show that focuses on all things relational. A frequent speaker to local and state groups, Julie currently serves on the Chattanooga Women's Leadership Institute board, and the Chattanooga Area Chamber of Commerce's Leadership Chattanooga curriculum committee. Often in the national spotlight, Julie currently chairs the board for the National Association for Relationship & Marriage Education. She has presented at the White House Conference on Helping America's Youth, testified on Capitol Hill about the benefits of marriage, and speaks nationwide on topics related to strengthening marriage, fatherhood and families. Internationally, Julie has presented at the World Congress for Families in Amsterdam and at the International Smart Marriages Conferences. Because of Julie's marriage and family expertise, she is broadly utilized as a consultant by communities and agencies, and is a sought-after speaker and retreat leader. Julie and her husband, Jay, have been married since 1989. They are the proud parents of a daughter, Ashley. In her free time, Julie enjoys gardening, horseback riding, cooking, working with children, mentoring couples and baking. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and give the podcast a 5 star rating! Share this with a friend, and follow the page. Thank you for your support! If you believe in our mission, consider supporting the podcast here: https://anchor.fm/onthesideoftruth/support Follow us on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/on_the_side_of_truth/ Follow us on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onthesideoftruthpodcast Follow us on linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/onthesideoftruth Follow us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV6JItTieuF1XJN_LBBSMAg Follow us on twitter: https://twitter.com/onthesideoftrut website: https://onthesideoftruth.mailchimpsites.com/ Instagram: @winshapemarriage --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/onthesideoftruth/support

This is part 1 of a two part interview with Julie! In part two we discuss what she shared in Amsterdam for a huge international conference as well as her answers to the top 10 most asked questions about dating and relationships! You don't want to miss part 2!! For 23 years, Julie Baumgardner was part of the First Things First leadership team, serving 19 of those years as the president and CEO. In January 2021, Julie took on a new role as the Senior Director of WinShape Marriage for the WinShape Foundation. During her tenure at First Things First, the award-winning nonprofit dedicated to strengthening families in Chattanooga, Tennessee, generated model duplication efforts nationwide and garnered international attention for its outstanding leadership in family, marriage and parenting issues. As a passionate advocate for helping people have healthy relationships, Julie reached hundreds of thousands each week through her Chattanooga Times Free Press column and as host of JulieB TV, a YouTube-based talk show that focuses on all things relational. A frequent speaker to local and state groups, Julie currently serves on the Chattanooga Women's Leadership Institute board, and the Chattanooga Area Chamber of Commerce's Leadership Chattanooga curriculum committee. Often in the national spotlight, Julie currently chairs the board for the National Association for Relationship & Marriage Education. She has presented at the White House Conference on Helping America's Youth, testified on Capitol Hill about the benefits of marriage, and speaks nationwide on topics related to strengthening marriage, fatherhood and families. Internationally, Julie has presented at the World Congress for Families in Amsterdam and at the International Smart Marriages Conferences. Because of Julie's marriage and family expertise, she is broadly utilized as a consultant by communities and agencies, and is a sought-after speaker and retreat leader. Julie and her husband, Jay, have been married since 1989. They are the proud parents of a daughter, Ashley. In her free time, Julie enjoys gardening, horseback riding, cooking, working with children, mentoring couples and baking. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and give the podcast a 5 star rating! Share this with a friend, and follow the page. Thank you for your support! If you believe in our mission, consider supporting the podcast here: https://anchor.fm/onthesideoftruth/support Follow us on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/on_the_side_of_truth/ Follow us on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onthesideoftruthpodcast Follow us on linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/onthesideoftruth Follow us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV6JItTieuF1XJN_LBBSMAg Follow us on twitter: https://twitter.com/onthesideoftrut website: https://onthesideoftruth.mailchimpsites.com/ Instagram: @winshapemarriage --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/onthesideoftruth/support

Dr. Mike Sytsma joins us to answer your questions about sex and motherhood. Dr. Mike is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of Georgia, a Certified Sex Therapist, and a Certified Sexual Addictions Specialist. He is also an ordained minister who is passionate about marriage and helping couples grow in their marriage! We are so glad he is here to provide expert level advice and answers to your questions.  Learn more about the Survive Retreat for Moms of Teens Take a second to tell us what you love about BOAW! Intimate Marriage - Dr. Mike's online couples group IntimateMarriage.Org - Dr. Mike's organization Winshape Marriage retreats  Parenting Together study with Karen and Greg Stubbs

If there is one place in the Bible that gives women permission to have fun, to explore and to enjoy sexual pleasure, it's the poetic Song of Solomon. In this episode, Juli Slattery and Linda Dillow have a candid conversation about why many married women dread sex, yet how the Song of Solomon gives women freedom and permission to say no to sex, to initiate sex, to enjoy sex and to feel sexy.  Grab your Java and join us! Guests: Linda Dillow and Elena Thomason Show Notes: Join an Online Book Study this Fall Get the "Passion Pursuit" Bible study Get the "En Busca de la Pasión" Bible study Join Juli for God, Sex, and Your Marriage at Winshape Marriage, Oct. 29-31 Follow Authentic Intimacy on: Instagram: @authenticintimacy Facebook: @authenticintimacy Twitter: @DrJuliSlattery

In this episode of TGC Q&A, Mika Edmondson and Russell Moore address the question, “How should Christians pray during elections?” They discuss:Praying generally and individually (:28)Praying for unity, humility, and empathy (2:03)Avoiding “apocalyptic” attitudes (3:20)Seeing beyond particular moral perspectives (4:27)Explore more from TGC on navigating election season here:4 Ways to Worship—Not Worry—This Election SeasonThe Two Articles Every Christian Should Read the Day After the ElectionThis episode of TGC Q&A is sponsored by WinShape Marriage. Their passion is to create experiences that transform your relationship with your spouse and with the Lord. To learn more and see all WinShape offers for every stage of marriage, visit winshapemarriage.org.

Rebecca McLaughlin and Taylor Turkington  discuss:Complete transformation (:29)Everything made new (1:42)Newness that progresses (3:16)Power perfected in weakness (3:46)Waiting for completion (4:30)Clinging to Christ in a new value system (5:12)Explore more from TGC on this topic:The New CreationNew Creation in Paul’s Letters and ThoughtThis episode of TGC Q&A is sponsored by WinShape Marriage. Their passion is to create experiences that transform your relationship with your spouse and with the Lord. To learn more and see all WinShape offers for every stage of marriage, visit winshapemarriage.org.

Crawford Loritts and Jason Cook answer the question, “What Bible passage do you treasure most?” They discuss:1 Corinthians 1:18—foolishness and folly (:27)Reasons verses resonate with us (1:18)Joshua 1:8—the Bible and its context for our lives (1:48)Belief in the sufficiency of God’s Word (3:41)The power of God’s Word to do hard work (5:18)Gifts and God’s Word (5:57)Explore more from TGC on this topic:The Sufficiency of ScriptureFinding the Right Bible Reading PlanThis episode of TGC Q&A is sponsored by WinShape Marriage. Their passion is to create experiences that transform your relationship with your spouse and with the Lord. To learn more and see all WinShape offers for every stage of marriage, visit winshapemarriage.org.

In this episode of TGC Q&A, Rico Tice and Scott Oliphint discuss how the world would be different if Christ had not risen.  They address:The hope of the resurrection (:32)The certainty of hope because of the resurrection (2:16)The resurrection as a warning (5:05)The resurrection as a basis for judgment (6:56)Explore more from TGC on this topic:Neglecting the ResurrectionThe ResurrectionThis episode of TGC Q&A is sponsored by WinShape Marriage. Their passion is to create experiences that transform your relationship with your spouse and with the Lord. To learn more and see all WinShape offers for every stage of marriage, visit winshapemarriage.org.

Thanks to COVID-19, you and your spouse have likely spent a lot of time together the last five months—but that doesn't necessarily mean your marriage isn't on rocky ground. Are you and your spouse in need of some TLC (or time away from the kids)? Or have things have gotten so difficult that reconnecting feels hopeless? In this bonus episode, Juli and her guest, Matt Turvey from Winshape Marriage, talk about the difference between marriage retreats and “marriage intensives" and how each can make healthy marriages stronger or rescue a marriage in crisis. Grab your java and join us! Guest: Matt Turvey Mentioned: Join Juli at Winshape for the God, Sex & Your Marriage retreat. Date Nights In Java Pack: Taking Back the Bedroom

Simple Solutions to Help You Prepare For, Enrich, or Save Your Marriage with Dr. Matthew Turvey, Director of WinShape Marriage   Isaiah 61:3 (NIV) “and provide for those who grieve in Zion — to bestow on them a crown of beauty instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, and a garment of praise instead of a spirit of despair. They will be called oaks of righteousness, a planting of the LORD for the display of his spender.”  Matthew Turvey, Psy.D. has been a licensed psychologist since 2003 and has worked with countless couples all over the globe to strengthen their marriages. As Director of WinShape Marriage, Dr. Turvey cultivates programs and experiences that inspire couples in all stages of marriage to move toward moments of breakthrough in their relationships. He's often found leading couples on marriage adventure experiences in exciting locations, guiding couples toward healing, and serving as a liaison for mental, spiritual and relational resources for WinShape Foundation and Chick-fil-A staff.    Dr. Turvey's family came to WinShape after two years in Lima, Peru where he served the emotional and relational needs of the missionary and international community. Prior to this, he served as vice president of Life Innovations where he helped revise the widely-used PREPARE-ENRICH marriage assessment and trained thousands of pastors and counselors in its use. Dr. Turvey worked with Gary Smalley earlier in his career. He continues to offer a unique perspective on achieving and maintaining healthy relationships through partnerships with numerous well-known authors and experts in the marriage and family field. Married since 1996, he enjoys traveling with his wife, Nicole, and their four children, with whom they've visited six continents.  The Turveys are continually journeying through marriage and parenting with an open heart, a sense of humor, and a constant clinging to Proverbs 16:9, knowing that while the mind of man plans his way, the Lord directs his steps.   At The Savvy Sauce, we will only recommend resources we believe in! We also want you to be aware: We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.comand affiliated sites.    WinShape Marriage Website  Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas   Thank You to Our Sponsor: FabFitFun#fabfitfunpartner (Enter Code: SAVVY at checkout to receive $10 off your first box)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

T oday, we had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Matt Turvey, director of Winshape Marriage. He talks about how marriage retreats help to jumpstart the healing process for a couple that's struggling. They can also be a great way for a couple that's doing well to be proactive and breathe new life into their marriage, providing a solid foundation to continue building on. He has great wisdom and believes that couples need to actively address the little things before they become big wedges. His advice is a great help for any marriage--listen in! #10: Marriage Retreats: Breathing Life Into Your Marriage (Dr. Matt Turvey)   Mentioned in This Episode:   Winshape's (AMAZING) Marriage Retreats & Intensives We've been to one of Winshape's retreats and we can't recommend them highly enough...and no, we don't get paid to say that! :-) Retreats Intensives Adventures Discussion Questions: What scares you most about the idea of a marriage retreat? How could a marriage retreat help your marriage right now? More information: Get our FREE eBook, 7 Days to an Awesome Marriage Learn more about us and our story Check out Radiant Marriage Academy, a FREE 16-session experience designed to help you set your marriage on a solid biblical foundation. Remember to follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Pinterest!

Aboutt our Guest On this episode of the podcast, we’re talking about making your marriage an adventure. Whether you’re preparing to go on an adventure with your spouse or just want to make every day a little more adventurous, you’re going to enjoy this episode. For the first time ever on the podcast, we’ve got a repeat guest—Dr. Matt Turvey, the director of Winshape Marriage. If you listen to the previous episode with Dr. Turvey, you’ll remember he mentioned number of different retreats they have at Winshape. One of their most exciting programs is called Marriage Adventures, and for this episode Matt draws on his experience leading those adventures to tell us a little bit more about how we can create more adventures in our own marriage. Interview Why do you think couples stop having fun when they get married? Life just happens. Kids happen. I love my kids, but they take a lot of work. Your schedule happens and you forget to prioritize fun. So much happens when you’re having fun with your spouse. You’ve got to be pretty intentional to make it happen. Why do couples feel guilty about leaving their kids at home? We want to be so connected so we sometimes think presence is connection. Sometimes you have to be more intentional in how you craft an experience with your kids or spouse. Sometimes parents focus too much on the kids and let the kids make too many decisions. If you give your kids the ability to make the decisions for your family, it’s probably a lot of stress on the kid. Give them choices they can handle: “Do you want to go here to eat or there to eat?” Sometimes we give our kids so much power and influence in the relationship that we lose power in the relationship. Why is it important for kids to see their parents having fun? My wife and I have done a pretty good job of getting away when we need to. It lets our kids know that we are safe, that mom and dad are a team and we’re going to last. What is the benefit for a couple to go on a retreat or vacation? Getting away reminds us what’s important. You got married for a reason; you had amazing experiences in the early days when you were dating and newlyweds. Getting away sometimes helps us get a little taste again of the honeymoon. It reminds you that you’re with the right person. Why is having fun essential to a marriage? Relationships don’t happen in vacuums, you have to have a relationship face-to-face. Your relationship will be a mirror of how much time and effort you put into it. Couples that spend good time together—whether that’s conversation, date nights, adventure, vacations—are building up that bank account. I can tell you from experience that when my wife and I have time away together we show up better for each other, for the kids, for the Lord. Can you tell us about the Marriage Adventures you lead? At Winshape Marriage, we do three main things—intensives for couples who want a breakthrough, retreats for couples who want a weekend away, and the adventures are the big experiences. They’re typically a week long and places anywhere around the world. These adventures have an element of journey and an element of challenge. Every day is crafted intentionally around your marriage. It’s an intentional time for you and your spouse to ask questions about each other, to have conversations with each other, and have experiences together you need to have. How have these adventures helped couples? A lot of the curriculum around our marriage adventures go back to ancient Christian principles around spiritual direction. The job of adventures is to get couples outside in creation to ask those important questions. We talk about six core principles: a vision for your marriage, truth in your marriage, having a posture of discovery, unity, constancy, and celebration. Who are the adventures for? They are not for couples in crisis. If you’re in crisis and you’re hiking a mountain in the Andes, that might push you over the edge. But if you’re in transition or you want to invest in your marriage, it’s a great way to invest in your marriage. We want couples to walk away different from the experience. What does psychological research say about adventures? When you get outside your schedule, your body has a biological reset. You get rested, even in the midst of challenge. You get that sense of disequilibrium and you want to figure it out. But we make it so you solve challenges together. When you’re in ‘the flow’, it’s kind of like a runners’ high. Imagine being in ‘the zone’ with your spouse. It helps you remember things better. Your one simple thing this week: When it comes to adventure, couples can just do it. Be intentional about being adventurous with your spouse even in daily things. Show Closing Thanks for joining us for the Married People Podcast. We hope you’ll subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and leave a review—they help us make the podcast better. For more from Dr. Matt Turvey, check out his Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. You can find more about Winshape Marriage on their website and the adventures on their site.

It’s no surprise that we all carry some baggage into our marriage and that can spill into our marriage. To talk about this we interviewed Dr. Matt Turvey.  Matt is the director of Winshape Marriage, a retreat and conference center located in North Georgia. Matt holds a doctorate in clinical psychology and has been married to his wife Nicole for 22 years and they have four kids. Interview Can you tell us a little about yourself? I’ve been married to my wife Nicole for a little over 22 years. We have four kids—ages 17, 15, 12 and six.  Seven or eight years ago, we moved to Lima, Peru to do counseling for missionaries. My dad found out that House Hunters was filming, so we applied. The show came to Peru and shot us for a few days. We were international superstars for a few minutes. What is Winshape? Winshape started about 35 years ago by Truett Cathy, the owner of Chick-Fil-A. It started with a college leadership program and has branched into foster homes, a retreat center, teen ministry, and camps around the country. The latest is Winshape Marriage, which started about 16 years ago. I get to direct that, and it’s so fun. We serve couples at whatever stage they’re in—whether they’re trying to get ready for marriage, looking for encouragement, a blended family, or have a kid with special needs. We have things around sexual intimacy, empty nesters, and couples who are really stuck. We have deep dive intensives to look at what is keeping couples from having the marriage they want to have. Most people think of a ‘capital ‘T’ Trauma’ as a rape or seeing something life threatening or tragic. The ‘little-t traumas’ are the ones where you’re there and not quite sure what you experienced – messages you got from your parents that you interpreted wrongly. Most people have parents who care for them in the best way they know how and they bring their own ‘little ‘t’ traumas’ to the table and act the best out of what they know.  How does the need to perform in marriage have an impact? Because I wanted to be such a good husband, I did everything I could to be a good husband. It got me by for about ten years and we realized that more than trying to have a deep relationship we were trying to have a relationship free of conflict. I was doing my graduate work for Gary Smalley and attended my first marriage intensive. I realized for the first time that I had never let my wife have a negative emotion around me because it meant I was a failure.  When I saw it in this process, I realized I had squashed her. I came home and tried to see her comments (eg. the yard needs to be mowed) as not being about me. I was turning the fingers around at her and always had an accusatory posture that belittled her. How does our personal baggage come into marriage? A philosopher once said, “the unexamined life is not worth living.” If you don’t examine and take the deep dive into stuff that you bring to the table, you’re just going to repeat patterns. In some ways, we’ve just learned to survive and it may not be the best way. People bring the old stuff into marriage and it works for a while, but you’re not really succeeding in a safe, deep, intimate way with your spouse. When we look and see how we’re connecting with our spouse, we need to ask if there is a better way. When people ask those questions, they may be surprised at the answer sometimes. But if you look a little deeper, you’ll find a new level of intimacy in your marriage. How do we properly deal with trauma in marriage? I remember the first time I went to counseling for stuff I recognized as a problem for my marriage, it literally felt like I was standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down. There was the other side of the cliff that was health, and I had no idea how to get there.  I didn’t know there was a safety net and when I took the first step of faith God had me. As I got deeper and deeper into my wounds, I realized that I liked myself and could trust myself. There were some truths about myself and who God created me to be that helped me come to my marriage from a place of health. How often do struggling couples have unresolved problems? You start out as an individual in marriage so probably the vast majority of stuff is individual. The difference between your expectations and reality is where the disappointment is. But far and away when I start looking at things from a different lens in my marriage, 95% of stuff gets taken care of. How often are responses directed at the spouse instead of what they can improve? I get calls from people who want to come to intensives and they’re not saying it so much but they’re basically saying, “My spouse is nuts, can you fix them”. We have to start with ourselves first. If we can help individuals look at what they bring to the table and then we show up out of a place of health and wholeness you’re really able to grow. Over the years, I’ve come to realize that most of us in our marriage actually have what it takes. I believe in people who come to counseling. I believe in the innate ability of people to show up and remove the junk that overlays their heart—deep down we were created to love and be attached to other people and our savior. We want to set the stage for that to happen. What is the Prodigal Love program? This is the first time we’ve done a marriage experience for individuals. Our marriage retreats for years have been you and your spouse come together—that works and that’s awesome. But like we’ve been talking about, you need to do your own stuff first.  Prodigal Love is all about that. We’re bringing in a program with some Christian therapists. We call it a personal growth intensive. It helps folks slow down, get rid of their cell phone, and be in a small group setting where you have the chance to take that dive off the cliff. It sounds like a scary experience but the people who are walking you through it are extremely safe. When you get in that process you’re going to find some healing. If you trust the process, change will happen. I’ve been through it myself and I can tell you it was the first time in my life where I felt the grace of Jesus in my gut, in a way I had never experienced before. It was powerful and I’m hoping we can recreate a sense of that experience for people who come. What transformation have you seen from programs like this? I went through a process very similar to Prodigal Love. About six years ago, we adopted a beautiful little girl from China. When she came home I was an angry man at a beautiful little two and a half year old girl from China and I had no idea why. In the process I found Onsite, the process we use in Prodigal Love. And not once in the process did we talk about me as a dad. We started going back and looking at the messages I had received in life early on. What we began to realize was me being loved for performance was there. In one exercise we did called a psychodrama where you ask people to play a role for you and you talk to them. That exercise changed everything for me. I experienced the grace of Jesus and heard him say, “I delight in you”. When I experienced that grace. I became a better father, husband, and boss. Your one simple thing this week: I hope people recognize that the struggle with God is okay. Don’t run from it, look at it and ask what it is. Ask for wisdom when you need it. Show Closing Thanks for joining us for the Married People Podcast. We hope you’ll subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and leave a review – they help us make the podcast better.  We want to hear from you! Share with us on Facebook, Instagram or our site.  If you want more resources, check out the MarriedPeople membership.   For more from Dr. Matt Turvey, check out his Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. You can find more about Winshape on their website and the Prodigal Love Retreat on their website. Finally, we hope you’ll join us for next week’s episode!

Episode #061 James Barnett Bringing Faith to Market   * Head to SimplyJoyfulPodcast.com or KristiClover.com/061 to see all the Show Notes & Awesome Quotes that we collected for you!   * THIS EPISODE’S SPONSOR: DAYSPRING! I love working with DaySpring! Be sure to check out all their amazing products and gifts. — Use coupon code CLOVER10 to get $10 OFF any purchase (valid through June 22nd).   **CHECK OUT OUR NEW “SIMPLY JOYFUL TV!” It’s the video edition of the podcast! I had the honor of interviewing Jon Erwin, the director of the new movie I Can Only Imagine and Moms Night Out. You can watch it HERE! I also just released my interview with Pam Barnhill! Find them both at KristiClover.tv   BOOKS & POSTS MENTIONED… Only One Life Kind is the New Classy Just Open the Door   LINKS TO OTHER THINGS MENTIONED… (See more details on the SHOW NOTES!) My episode with Dave Stotts is linked HERE! My episode with Jen Schmidt is linked HERE! My episode with Jackie & Lauren (from Hobby Lobby) is HERE! Join my mailing list and get weekly encouragement -- and get my Sanity Savers for Moms book FREE! The Simply Joyful Membership Site!! — We have lots of great ways to get bonuses! Thanks for your support of the podcast! Join our Facebook Community, too! Your question might just be used in the podcast. I didn’t mention that I have a weight loss program that I love called Optavia! I’m a health coach with them. If you are interested in learning more about that and my special coaching program, just head HERE for more info. Listening to Audio Books with Audible! The Simply Joyful Podcast mug Subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss the next encouraging episode! iTunes & Stitcher & now GooglePlay   I hope you enjoyed this week's podcast! My prayer is always that you will be blessed and encouraged by each episode. Live Simply. Be Joyful.   LET’S CONNECT!… I'd love to connect with you more online! Be sure to follow me on social media and see what we're up to.  My Website | Facebook  | Instagram | YouTube | Pinterest | Twitter   CONNECT WITH JAMES… James Barnett is president of DaySpring, headquartered in Siloam Springs, Arkansas. He joined the company in 1981 and has been leading DaySpring since 1994. DaySpring, a subsidiary of Hallmark, is the world’s largest Christian social expression company which annually distributes more than 200 million products in the United States and 60 countries worldwide. A native of Northwest Arkansas, Barnett holds a Bachelor of Science degree in business from John Brown University, Siloam Springs, and an MBA from the Walton School of Business at the University of Arkansas, Fayetteville. He has been very involved in community and area organizations for more than 35 years, serving on several athletic, charitable and scholastic boards. He is currently on the Walton School of Business Advisory Board, engaged with the CEO Forum, and serves on the Executive Committee of the Siloam Springs Chamber of Commerce.  He also has served on boards with the Arkansas Economic Development Commission, Urban Ministries, the Winshape Marriage and Family Foundation, the Soderquist Center for Leadership and Ethics at John Brown University, and Arkansas Athletes Outreach. His business affiliations include membership in the Association for Christian Retail, the Greeting Card Association, and the local Chamber of Commerce.  He and his wife Marilyn have three grown children and five grandchildren and are active members of Fellowship Bible Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Be sure to check out all DaySpring has to offer, and Kristi's favorites at KristiClover.com/DaySpring. Use coupon code CLOVER10 to get $10 OFF any product (valid through June 22nd).   **This post may contain a few affiliate links, both Amazon & others. Please see my disclosure page if you have any questions.

      Over the last several years my wife and I have begun a new journey in our life. That journey has involved a couple of elements: 1) Trying to incorporate more adventure into our marriage (i.e. trips, taking on challenges, etc.); 2) Working on ways to partner together in marriage. And last month we took another step closer in combining these two elements when we went away for a few days to WinShape Marriage to be trained as a leaders to lead their marriage adventures.   What is a marriage adventure? Imagine sailing on a catamaran in the BVI's for 8 days with 3 other couples, why you work on your marriage with daily activities and conversations, all while taking on daily adventures. This was something my wife and I were invited to participate in 3 years ago, and it was an experience that changed our life.   Or imagine leading couples through Machu Picchu in Peru, or leading couples on a contemplative pilgrimage on the Camino de Santiago in Spain, or working with other couples in orphanges in Guatemala?   Well today's guest is the one who oversees WinShape Marriage and all their adventures, and I was excited to have him on to talk about why the element of adventure is so important in marriages. Also, Matt has taken quite the trajectory to get to where he is today, working in some of the most paradigm shifting organizations in the field of marriage.   In this episode we discuss: his love for combining psychology and theology and its integration into marriage work. his work with Gary Smalley and marriage intensives. his time at Prepare and Enrich and what he learned about marriages. he and his family selling everything and moving to Peru for two years. his experience of doing a personal intensives at OnSite and how that changed his life. his current work at Winshape Marriage. what are the keys to a successful marriage. how you and your spouse can get involved with WinShape Marriage. Resources and People Mentioned in the Podcast Gary Smalley Prepare and Enrich Todd Sandel The Hideaway Experience OnSite WinShape Marriage