Podcasts about CII

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from April 30 to May 28, 2026. Some of the topics addressed include: CII's letter to the PCAOB on its 2026-2030 strategic plan, shareholders voting against say-on-pay proposals, and the SEC's proposed reductions to public companies' reporting requirements.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Lucian Bebchuk, the James Barr Ames Professor of Law, Economics, and Finance, and Director of the Program on Corporate Governance at Harvard Law School and Kobi Kastiel, Professor of Law at Tel Aviv University. Professors Bebchuk and Kastiel are the co-authors of a recently issued research article, forthcoming in the Texas Law Review, entitled the “Controllers Unbound,” which analyzes how the relaxation of constraints on controlling shareholders at public companies incorporated in Delaware is expected to affect investors and the economy.  The article identifies risks for both public investors and the broader economy that may raise concern for those interested in investor protection and economic performance.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney sits down with Edward Rock, the Martin Lipton Professor of Law, and Director of the Institute for Corporate Governance & Finance, at the NYU School of Law. Professor Rock is the co-author of a recent research paper entitled "The New Political Economy of Delaware Corporate Lawmaking." The paper discusses how changes in the capital and legal markets, particularly the rise of dual-class controlled companies, are reshaping the state's lawmaking process. To address these changes, the authors propose replacing the current “Corporation Law Council” with a legislatively created “Corporation Law Commission” that prioritizes the creation of a balanced and technically excellent corporate law over making changes that serve immediate client interests.

¿Qué hace realmente un Chief Artificial Intelligence Officer (CAIO) en la industria actual? En este episodio de Café de Datos, nos acompaña la Dra. Ludivina Facundo, líder del Centro de Innovación Industrial en Inteligencia Artificial (CII.IA), para desmitificar la implementación de la IA en sectores críticos como la manufactura, el retail y la banca.La Dra. Facundo, experta en robótica y manufactura avanzada, nos explica por qué su rol es fundamentalmente el de una "intérprete" estratégica entre las necesidades de negocio y las capacidades tecnológicas. A través de su experiencia en el CII.IA, exploramos cómo la transformación digital no se trata solo de tecnología, sino de resolver problemas reales mediante el análisis de datos y la innovación constante.En este episodio aprenderás:El rol del CAIO: Cómo traducir desafíos industriales en soluciones de IA.CII.IA y la Innovación: El impacto del Centro en el desarrollo de talento y soluciones avanzadas para México.Casos de Éxito: Desde la inspección automatizada en manufactura hasta agentes inteligentes en el periodismo.Madurez de Datos: Por qué la calidad del dato y la evangelización tecnológica son el primer paso para cualquier proyecto.El futuro del empleo: Cómo evolucionar en tu profesión utilizando la IA como una herramienta de potenciación.Palabras clave (Tags):Inteligencia Artificial, Chief AI Officer, CII.IA, Transformación Digital, Industria 4.0, Manufactura Avanzada, Análisis de Datos, Estrategia Tecnológica, Innovación Industrial, Robótica, Dra. Ludivina Facundo, Café de Datos.Recursos mencionados:CII.IA (Centro de Innovación Industrial en Inteligencia Artificial): Institución líder en capacitación y soluciones de IA para diversos sectores.Workshops de IA: Programas de alfabetización digital y diseño de soluciones enfocados en el retorno de inversión.Conoce más de www.datlas.mx Invitación a Taller de InnovaciónSupport the showRecuerda que puedes conectar con nuestras redes y sitios web.En Datlas nos dedicamos a responder la pregunta DÓNDE con la mayor cantidad de datos que nadie en México. Lo hacemos a través de nuestras soluciones de análisis de entorno, monitor de indicadores y Retail & CPGs solver. Conoce más en www.datlas.mx , en nuestras redes: @DatlasMX | Instagram, Facebook | Linktree y aprende vía el sitio web de www.datlasacademy.com 

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from March 26 to April 30, 2026. Some of the topics addressed include: CII's comment letter to the SEC on Regulation S-K disclosures, trends in CII Members' updated proxy voting and stewardship policies, CII's new dashboard tracking Rule 14a-8 no-action notifications, and the CII Research and Education Fund's new resource comparing of jurisdictional approaches among Delaware, Nevada, Texas and the Cayman Islands.

In this episode, CII's General Counsel, Jeff Mahoney interviews Charles K. Whitehead, the Myron C. Taylor Alumni Professor of Business Law at Cornell Law School. In the episode Professor Whitehead discusses his article entitled “Delaware's Agency Problem.” Professor Whitehead explains why Delaware's lawmaking process for amending their corporate law statutes has a “second order agency problem.” He then describes specific procedural reforms that he believes should be adopted to resolve the problem. He also discusses specific actions that institutional investors should consider in support of the adoption of his suggested reforms.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from March 3 through to March 26, 2026. Some of the topics addressed include:  the separate comments of Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Chairman Paul Atkins and Ranking Member of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs (Senate Banking Committee) Senator Elizabeth Warren at CII's Spring conference; and a letter from a bi-partisan group of 18 Senate Banking Committee members to Chair Atkins urging the SEC to examine Chinese companies' reliance on variable interest entities to be listed on U.S. exchanges.  

We're proud to release this ahead of Ryan's keynote at AIE Europe. Hit the bell, get notified when it is live! Attendees: come prepped for Ryan's AMA with Vibhu after.Move over, context engineering. Now it's time for Harness engineering and the age of the token billionaires.Ryan Lopopolo of OpenAI is leading that charge, recently publishing a lengthy essay on Harness Eng that has become the talk of the town:In it, Ryan peeled back the curtains on how the recently announced OpenAI Frontier team have become OpenAI's top Codex users, running a >1m LOC codebase with 0 human written code and, crucially for the Dark Factory fans, no human REVIEWED code before merge. Ryan is admirably evangelical about this, calling it borderline “negligent” if you aren't using >1B tokens a day (roughly $2-3k/day in token spend based on market rates and caching assumptions):Over the past five months, they ran an extreme experiment: building and shipping an internal beta product with zero manually written code. Through the experiment, they adopted a different model of engineering work: when the agent failed, instead of prompting it better or to “try harder,” the team would look at “what capability, context, or structure is missing?”The result was Symphony, “a ghost library” and reference Elixir implementation (by Alex Kotliarskyi) that sets up a massive system of Codex agents all extensively prompted with the specificity of a proper PRD spec, but without full implementation:The future starts taking shape as one where coding agents stop being copilots and start becoming real teammates anyone can use and Codex is doubling down on that mission with their Superbowl messaging of “you can just build things”.Across Codex, internal observability stacks, and the multi-agent orchestration system his team calls Symphony, Ryan has been pushing what happens when you optimize an entire codebase, workflow, and organization around agent legibility instead of human habit.We sat down with Ryan to dig into how OpenAI's internal teams actually use Codex, why the real bottleneck in AI-native software development is now human attention rather than tokens, how fast build loops, observability, specs, and skills let agents operate autonomously, why software increasingly needs to be written for the model as much as for the engineer, and how Frontier points toward a future where agents can safely do economically valuable work across the enterprise.We discuss:* Ryan's background from Snowflake, Brex, Stripe, and Citadel to OpenAI Frontier Product Exploration, where he works on new product development for deploying agents safely at enterprise scale* The origin of “harness engineering” and the constraint that kicked off the whole experiment: Ryan deliberately refused to write code himself so the agent had to do the job end to end* Building an internal product over five months with zero lines of human-written code, more than a million lines in the repo, and thousands of PRs across multiple Codex model generations* Why early Codex was painfully slow at first, and how the team learned to decompose tasks, build better primitives, and gradually turn the agent into a much faster engineer than any individual human* The obsession with fast build times: why one minute became the upper bound for the inner loop, and how the team repeatedly retooled the build system to keep agents productive* Why humans became the bottleneck, and how Ryan's team shifted from reviewing code directly to building systems, observability, and context that let agents review, fix, and merge work autonomously* Skills, docs, tests, markdown trackers, and quality scores as ways of encoding engineering taste and non-functional requirements directly into context the agent can use* The shift from predefined scaffolds to reasoning-model-led workflows, where the harness becomes the box and the model chooses how to proceed* Symphony, OpenAI's internal Elixir-based orchestration layer for spinning up, supervising, reworking, and coordinating large numbers of coding agents across tickets and repos* Why code is increasingly disposable, why worktrees and merge conflicts matter less when agents can resolve them, and what it really means to fully delegate the PR lifecycle* “Ghost libraries”, spec-driven software, and the idea that a coding agent can reproduce complex systems from a high-fidelity specification rather than shared source code* The broader future of Frontier: safely deploying observable, governable agents into enterprises, and building the collaboration, security, and control layers needed for real-world agentic workRyan Lopopolo* X: https://x.com/_lopopolo* Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanlopopolo/* Website: https://hyperbo.la/contact/Timestamps00:00:00 Introduction: Harness Engineering and OpenAI Frontier00:02:20 Ryan's background and the “no human-written code” experiment00:08:48 Humans as the bottleneck: systems thinking, observability, and agent workflows00:12:24 Skills, scaffolds, and encoding engineering taste into context00:17:17 What humans still do, what agents already own, and why software must be agent-legible00:24:27 Delegating the PR lifecycle: worktrees, merge conflicts, and non-functional requirements00:31:57 Spec-driven software, “ghost libraries,” and the path to Symphony00:35:20 Symphony: orchestrating large numbers of coding agents00:43:42 Skill distillation, self-improving workflows, and team-wide learning00:50:04 CLI design, policy layers, and building token-efficient tools for agents00:59:43 What current models still struggle with: zero-to-one products and gnarly refactors01:02:05 Frontier's vision for enterprise AI deployment01:08:15 Culture, humor, and teaching agents how the company works01:12:29 Harness vs. training, Codex model progress, and “you can just do things”01:15:09 Bellevue, hiring, and OpenAI's expansion beyond San FranciscoTranscriptRyan Lopopolo: I do think that there is an interesting space to explore here with Codex, the harness, as part of building AI products, right? There's a ton of momentum around getting the models to be good at coding. We've seen big leaps in like the task complexity with each incremental model release where if you can figure out how to collapse a product that you're trying to.Build a user journey that you're trying to solve into code. It's pretty natural to use the Codex Harness to solve that problem for you. It's done all the wiring and lets you just communicate in prompts. To let the model cook, you have to step back, right? Like you need to take a systems thinking mindset to things and constantly be asking, where is the Asian making mistakes?Where am I spending my time? How can I not spend that time going forward? And then build confidence in the automation that I'm putting in place. So I have solved this part of the SDLC.swyx: [00:01:00] All right.[00:01:03] Meet Ryan swyx: We're in the studio with Ryan from OpenAI. Welcome.Ryan Lopopolo: Hi,swyx: Thanks for visiting San Francisco and thanks for spending some time with us.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, thank you. I'm super excited to be here.swyx: You wrote a blockbuster article on harness engineering. It's probably going to be the defining piece of this emerging discipline, huh?Ryan Lopopolo: Thank you. It is it's been fun to feel like we've defined the discourse in some sense.swyx: Let's contextualize a little bit, this first podcast you've ever done. Yes. And thank you for spending with us. What is, where is this coming from? What team are you in all that jazz?Ryan Lopopolo: Sure, sure.Ryan Lopopolo: I work on Frontier Product Exploration, new product development in the space of OpenAI Frontier, which is our enterprise platform for deploying agents safely at scale, with good governance in any business. And. The role of VMI team has been to figure out novel ways to deploy our models into package and products that we can sell as solutions to enterprises.swyx: And you have a background, I'll just squeeze it in there. Snowflake, brick, [00:02:00] stripe, citadel.Ryan Lopopolo: Yes. Yes. Same. Any kind of customerswyx: entire life. Yes. The exact kind of customer that you want to,Vibhu: so I'll say, I was actually, I didn't expect the background when I looked at your Twitter, I'm seeing the opposite.Stuff like this. So you've got the mindset of like full send AI, coding stuff about slop, like buckling in your laptop on your Waymo's. Yes. And then I look at your profile, I'm like, oh, you're just like, you're in the other end too. Oh, perfect. Makes perfect.Ryan Lopopolo: I it's quite fun to be AI maximalist if you're gonna live that persona.Open eye is the place to do it. And it'sswyx: token is what you say.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Certainly helps that we have no rate limits internally. And I can go, like you said, full send at this stay.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. So the Frontier, and you're a special team within O Frontier.Ryan Lopopolo: We had been given some space to cook, which has been super, super exciting.[00:02:47] Zero Code ExperimentRyan Lopopolo: And this is why I started with kind of a out there constraint to not write any of the code myself. I was figuring if we're trying to make agents that can be deployed into end to enterprises, they should be [00:03:00] able to do all the things that I do. And having worked with these coding models, these coding harnesses over 6, 7, 8 months, I do feel like the models are there enough, the harnesses are there enough where they're isomorphic to me in capability and the ability to do the job.So starting with this constraint of I can't write the code meant that the only way I could do my job was to get the agent to do my job.Vibhu: And like a, just a bit of background before that. This is basically the article. So what you guys did is five months of working on an internal tool, zero lines of code over a mi, a million lines of code in the total code base.You say it was cenex, more like it was cenex faster than you would've. If you had done it by end. SoRyan Lopopolo: yeah, thatVibhu: was the mindset going into this, right?Ryan Lopopolo: That's right.[00:03:46] Model Upgrades LessonsRyan Lopopolo: Started with some of the very first versions of Codex CLI, with the Codex Mini model, which was obviously much less capable than the ones we have today.Which was also a very good constraint, right? Quite a visceral feeling to ask the [00:04:00] model to build you a product feature. And it just not being able to assemble the pieces together.Which kind of defined one of the mindsets we had for going into this, which is whenever the model just cannot, you always pop open at the task, double click into it, and build smaller building blocks that then you can reassemble into the broader objective.And it was quite painful to do this. Honestly, the first month and a half was. 10 times slower than I would be. But because we paid that cost, we ended up getting to something much more productive than any one engineer could be because we built the tools, the assembly station for the agent to do the whole thing.[00:04:43] Model Generations, Build Systems & Background ShellsRyan Lopopolo: But yeah, so onward to G BT 5, 5, 1, 5, 2, 5, 3, 5 4. To go through all these model generations and see their kind of corks and different working styles also meant we had to adapt the code base to change things up when the model was revved. [00:05:00] One interesting thing here is five two, the Codex harness at the time did not have background shells in it, which means we were able to rely on blocking scripts to perform long horizon work.But with five, three and background shells, it became less patient, less willing to block. So we had to retool the entire build system to complete in under a minute and. This is not a thing I would expect to be able to do in a code base where people have opinions. But because the only goal was to make the Asian productive over the course of a week, we went from a bespoke make file build to Basil, to turbo to nx and just left it there because builds were fast at that point.swyx: Interesting. Talk more about Turbo TenX. That's interesting ‘cause that's the other direction that other people have been doing.Ryan Lopopolo: Ultimately I have. Not a lot of experience with actual frontend repo architecture.swyx: You're talking that Jessica built the sky. So I'm like, I know the NX team. I know Turbo from Jared [00:06:00] Palmer.And I'm like, yeah, that's an interesting comparison.[00:06:02] One Minute Build LoopRyan Lopopolo: The hill we were climbing right, was make it fast.swyx: Is there a micro front end involved? Is it how how complex reactRyan Lopopolo: electron base single app sort of thingswyx: And must be under a minute. That's an interesting limitation. I'm actually not super familiar with the background shelf stuff.Probably was talked about in the fight three release.Ryan Lopopolo: BA basically means that codex is able to spawn commands in the background and then go continue to work while it waits for them to finish. So it can spawn an expensive build and then continue reviewing the code, for example.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And this helps it be more time efficient for the user invoking the harness.swyx: And I guess and just to really nail this, like what does one minute matter? Like why not five, okay, good. We want no. WeRyan Lopopolo: want the inner loop to be as fast as possible. Okay. One minute was just a nice round number and we were able to hit it.swyx: And if it doesn't complete, it kills it or some something,Ryan Lopopolo: No.We just take that as a signal that we need to stop what we're doing, double click, decompose a build graph a bit to get us to high back under so that we [00:07:00] can able the agent continue to operate.swyx: It's almost like you're, it's like a ratchet. It's like you're forcing build time discipline, because if you don't, it'll just grow and grow.That's right. And you mentioned that my current, like the software I work on currently is at 12 minutes. It sucks.Ryan Lopopolo: This has been my experience with platform teams in the past, where you have an envelope of acceptable build times and you let it go up to breach and then you spend two, three weeks to bring it back down to the lower end of the average low bed stop.But because tokens are so cheap Yeah. And we're so insanely parallel with the model, we can just constantly be gardening this thing to make sure that we maintain these in variants, which means. There's way less dispersion in the code and the SDLC, which means we can simplify in a way and rely on a lot more in variance as we write the software.[00:07:45] Observability, Traces & Local Dev StackVibhu: Lovely.[00:07:46] Humans Are BottleneckVibhu: You mentioned in your article, like humans became the bottleneck, right? You kicked off as a team of three people. You're putting out a million line of code, like 1500 prs, basically. What's the mindset there? So as much as code is disposable, you're doing a lot of review. A lot [00:08:00] of the article talks about how you wanna rephrase everything is prompting everything, is what the agent can't see.It's kind of garbage, right? You shouldn't have it in there. So what's like the high level of how you went about building it, and then how you address okay, humans are just PR review. Like how is human in the loop for this?Ryan Lopopolo: We've moved beyond even the humans reviewing the code as well.[00:08:19] Human Review, PR Automation & Agent Code ReviewRyan Lopopolo: Most of the human review is post merge at this point.But post, post merge, that's not even reviewed. That's justswyx: Oh, let's just make ourselves happy by YouRyan Lopopolo: haven't used fundamentally. The model is trivially paralyzable, right? As many GPUs and tokens as I am willing to spend, I can have capacity to work with my hood base.The only fundamentally scarce thing is the synchronous human attention of my team. There's only so many hours in the day we have to eat lunch. I would like to sleep, although it's quite difficult to, stop poking the machine because it makes me want to feed it. You have to step back, right?Like you need to take a systems thinking mindset to things and [00:09:00] constantly be asking where is the agent making mistakes? Where am I spending my time? How can I not spend that time going forward? And then build confidence in the automation that I'm putting in place. So I have solved this part of the SDLC, and usually what that has looked like is like we started needing to pay very close attention to the code because the agent did not have the right building blocks to produce.Modular software that decomposed appropriately that was reliable and observable and actually accrued a working front end in these things, right?[00:09:35] Observability First SetupRyan Lopopolo: So in order to not spend all of our time sitting in front of a terminal at most, doing one or two things at a time, invested in giving the model that observability, which is that that graph in the post here.swyx: Yeah. Let's walk through this traces and which existed firstRyan Lopopolo: we started with just the app and the whole rest of it. From vector through to all these login metrics, APIs was, I dunno, half an [00:10:00] afternoon of my time. We have intentionally chosen very high level fast developer tools. There's a ton of great stuff out there now.We use me a bunch, which makes it trivial to pull down all these go written Victoria Stack binaries in our local development. Tiny little bit of python glue to spin all these up. And off you go. One neat thing here is we have tried to invert things as much as possible, which is instead of setting up an environment to spawn the coding agent into, instead we spawn the coding agent, like that's the entry point.It's just Codex. And then we give Codex via skills and scripts the ability to boot the stack if it chooses to, and then tell it how to set some end variables. So the app and local Devrel points at this stack that it has chosen to spin up. And this I think is like the fundamental difference between reasoning models and the four ones and four ohs of the past, where these models could not think so you had to put them in [00:11:00] boxes with a predefined set of state transitions.Whereas here we have the model, the harness be the whole box. And give it a bunch of options for how to proceed with enough context for it to make intelligent choices. SoVibhu: sales, so like a lot of that is around scaffolding, right? Yes. Previous agents, you would define a scaffold. It would operate in that.Lube, try again. That's pivoted off from when we've had reasoning models. They're seeming to perform better when you don't have a scaffold, right? That's right.[00:11:28] Docs Skills GuardrailsVibhu: And you go into like niches here too, like your SPEC MD and like having a very short agent MG Agent md.swyx: Yes. Yes.Vibhu: Yeah. So you even lay out what it is here, but I likeswyx: the table contents.Vibhu: Yeah.swyx: Like stuff like this, it really helps guide people because everyone's trying to do this.Ryan Lopopolo: This structure also makes it super cheap to put new content into the repository to steer both the humans and the agents.swyx: You, you reinvented skills, right?Vibhu: One big agents andswyx: skills from first princip holdsRyan Lopopolo: all skills did not exist when we started doing this.Vibhu: You have a short [00:12:00] one 100 line overall table of contents and then you have little skills, right? Core beliefs, MD tech tracker. Yeah. Yeah. The scale is overRyan Lopopolo: The tech jet tracker and the quality score are pretty interesting because this is basically a tiny little scaffold, like a markdown table, which is a hook for Codex to review all the business logic that we have defined in the app, assess how it matches all these documented guardrails and propose follow up work for itself.Before beads and all these ticketing systems, we were just tracking follow up work as notes in a markdown file, which, we could spa an agent on Aron to burn down. There's this really neat thing that like the models fundamentally crave text. So a lot of what we have done here is figure out ways to inject textswyx: intoRyan Lopopolo: the system right when we get a page, because we're missing a timeout, for example.I can just add Codex in Slack on that page and say, I'm gonna fix this by adding a timeout. Please update our reliability documentation. To require that all network calls have [00:13:00] timeouts. So I have not only made a point in time fix, but also like durably encoded this process knowledge around what good looks like.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And we give that to the root coding agent as it goes and does the thing. But you can also use that to distill tests out of, or a code review agent, which is pointed at the same things to narrow the acceptable universe of the code that's produced.swyx: I think one of the concerns I have with that kind of stuff is you think you're making the right call by making, it's persisted for all time across everything.Yes. But then you didn't think about the exceptions that you need to make, right? And that you have to roll it back.Vibhu: Part of it isswyx: also sometimes it can follow your s instructions too.Vibhu: It's somewhat a skill, right? So it determines when it uses the tools, right? Like it's not like it'll run outta every call.It'll determine when it wants to check quality score, right?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. And we do in the prompts we give these agents, allow them to push back,[00:13:51] Agent Code Review RulesRyan Lopopolo: When we first started adding code review agents to the pr, it would be Codex, CLI. Locally writes the change, pushes up a PR on [00:14:00] those PR synchronizations of review agent fires.It posts a comment. We instruct Codex that it has to at least acknowledge and respond to that feedback. And initially the Codex driving the code author was willing to be bullied by the PR reviewer, which meant you could end up in a situation where things were not converging. So yeah, we had to,swyx: he's just a thrash.Ryan Lopopolo: We had to add more optionality to the prompts on both of these things, right? The reviewer agents were instructed to bias toward merging the thing to not surface anything greater than a P two in priority. We didn't really define P two, but we gave it, youswyx: did define P two.Ryan Lopopolo: We gave it a framework within which to score its outputswyx: and then greater than P zero is worse, right?Yes. P two is very good.Ryan Lopopolo: P zero is you will mute the code place ifswyx: you merch thisRyan Lopopolo: thing, right?swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: But also on the code authoring agent side, we also gave it the flexibility to either defer or push back against review feedback, right? This happens all the time, right? Like I happen to notice something and leave a code review, [00:15:00] which.Could blow up the scope by a factor of two. I usually don't mean for that to be addressed Exactly. In the moment. It's more of an FYI file it to the backlog, pick it up in the next fix it week sort of thing. And without the context that this is permissible, the coding agents are gonna bias toward what they do, which is following instructions.swyx: Yeah.[00:15:19] Autonomous Merging Flowswyx: I do wanted to check in on a couple things, right? Sure. All the coding review agent, it can merge autonomously. I think that's something that a lot of people aren't comfortable with. And you have a list here of how much agents do they do Product code and tests, CI configuration and release tooling, internal Devrel tools, documentation eval, harness review, comments, scripts that manage the repository itself, production dashboard definition files, like everything.Yes. And so they're just all churning at the same time, is there like a record that, that any human on the team pulls to stop everythingRyan Lopopolo: Because we are building a native application here. We're not doing continuous deploy. So there's still a human in the loop for cutting the release branch.I see. We require a blessed [00:16:00] human approved smoke test of the app before we promote it to distribution, these sort of things.swyx: So you're working on the app, you're not building like infrastructure where you have like nines of reliability, that kinda stuff?Ryan Lopopolo: That's correct. That's correct. Okay. And also like full recognition here that all of this activity took in a completely greenfield repository.There's. Should be no script that this applies generally toswyx: this is a production thing, you're gonna shipRyan Lopopolo: toswyx: customers. Of course. Yeah, of course. So this is realVibhu: And like one of the things there is, you mentioned you started this as a repo from scratch. The onboarding first month or so was pretty, it was like working backwards, right?Yeah. And then you had to work with the system and now you're at that point where you know, you're very autonomous. I'm curious like, okay, so what, how human in the loop is it? So what are the bottlenecks that you wish you could still automate? And part of that is also like, where do you see the model trajectory improving and offloading more human in the loop?We just got 5.4. It's a really good,Ryan Lopopolo: fantastic model, by the way.Vibhu: Yeah. Yeah. It's the first one that's merged. Top tier coding. So it's codex level coding and reasoning. So general reasoning both in one model. SoRyan Lopopolo: andVibhu: computer [00:17:00] use vision.Ryan Lopopolo: Now we now with five four, I can just have Codex write the blog post, whereas for this one I had to balance between chat.swyx: Oh, I need to, I might be out of a job. Oh my God.Ryan Lopopolo: Oh,swyx: I know. You just gave me an idea for a completely AI newsletter that five four could do. Yeah, I get it Now.Ryan Lopopolo: This sort of thing is just one example of closing the loop, right? Like the dashboard thing you mentioned. We have Codex authoring the Js ON, for the Grafana dashboards and publishing them and also responding to the pages, which means when it gets the page, it knows exactly which dashboards are defined and what alerts.What alert was triggered by which exact log in the code base. ‘cause all of this stuff is collated together.swyx: It has to own everything.Yes. Yeah. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: And it means that if we have an outage that did not result in a page. It has the existing set of dashboards available to it. It has the existing set of metrics and logs and can figure out where the gaps in the dashboard are or [00:18:00] in the underlying metrics and fix them in one go.In the same way, you would have a full stack engineer be able to drive a feature from the backend all the way to the front end.Vibhu: So it, it seems like a lot of the work you guys had to do was you as a small team are fully working for a way that the model wants the software to be written. It's like less human legible for better. Code legibility, agent legibility. How do you think that affects broader teams? So one at OpenAI, do liaison, like this is how software should be written. Like I can imagine, say you join a new team with this methodology, this mindset there's ways that, teams do code review, teams write code, like teams are structured and a lot of it is for human legibility.So should we all swap? Like how does this play back one broader into OpenAI and then like broader into the software engineering, right? Is it like teams that pick this up will it's pretty drastic, right? You have to make a pretty big switch. Should they just full send Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: The mindset is very much that I'm removed from the process, right? I can't really have deep code level opinions about [00:19:00] things. It's as if I'm. Group tech leading a 500 person organization.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Like it's not appropriate for me to be in the weeds on every pr. This is why that post merge code review thing is like a good analog here, right?Like I have some representative sample of the code as it is written, and I have to use that to infer what the teams are struggling with, where they could use help, where they're already moving quickly and I can pivot my focus elsewhere.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: So I don't really have too many opinions around the code as it is written.I do, however, have a command based class, which is used to have repeatable chunks of business logic that comes with tracing and metrics and observability for free. And the thing to focus on is not how that business logic is structured, but that it uses this primitive ‘cause I know that's gonna give leverage by default.Vibhu: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, back to that sort of systems stinking,Vibhu: and you have part of that in your blog post, enforcing architecture and ta taste how you set boundaries for what's used. There's also a section on redefining [00:20:00] engineering and stuff, but yeah, it's just, it's interesting to hear,Ryan Lopopolo: and as the models have gotten better, they have gotten better at proposing these abstractions to unblock themselves, which again, lets me move higher and higher up the stack to look deeper into the future on what ultimately blocked the team from shipping.swyx: Yeah. You mentioned so you, this is primarily a, it is like a 1 million line of code base electron app. But it manages its own services as well, so it's like a backend for front end type thing.Ryan Lopopolo: We do have a backend in there, but that's hosted in the cloud.Yeah. This sort of structure is actually within the separate main and render processesWithin theswyx: electric.That's just how electronic works.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, of course. So have also treated like. MVC style decomposition with the same level of rigor, which has been very fun.swyx: I have a fun pun. This is a tangent, NVC is model view controller. Any sort of full stack web Devrel knows that.But my AI native version of this is Model view Claw, the clause the harness.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right. That's right. I do think that there is an interesting space to [00:21:00] explore here with Codex, the harness as part of building AI products, right? There's a ton of momentum around getting the models to be good at coding.We've seen big leaps in like the task complexity with each incremental model release where if you can figure out how to collapse a product that you're trying to build, a user journey that you're trying to solve into code, it's pretty natural to use the Codex Harness to solve that problem for you. It's done all the wiring and lets you just communicate and prompts to let the model cook.Yeah. It's been very fun. And there's also a very engineering legible way of increasing capabil. It's fantastic, right? Yeah. Just give you, just give the model scripts, the same scripts you would already build for yourself.swyx: Yeah.Yeah. So for listeners, this is Ryan saying that software engineering or coding against will eat knowledge work like the non-coding parts that you would normally think.Oh, you have to build a separate agent for it. No, start a coding agent and go out from there. Which open Claw has like it's pie Underhood.Ryan Lopopolo: [00:22:00] Yes.Vibhu: Basically define your task in code. Everything is a codingswyx: agent by the way. Since I brought it up, it's probably the only place we bring it up. Is any open claw usage from you?Any?Ryan Lopopolo: No. No. Not for me. I don't have any spare Mac Minis rattling around my house.swyx: You can afford it? No. I just, I'm curious if it's changed anything in opening eye yet, but it's probably early days. And then the other, the other thing I, I wanna pull on here is like you mentioned ticketing systems and you mentioned prs and I'm wondering if both those things have to go away or be reinvented for this kind of coding.So the git itself and is like very hostile to multi-agent.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. We make very heavy use of work trees.swyx: But like even then, like I just did a, dropped a podcast yesterday with Cursors saying, and they said they're getting rid of work trees ‘cause it still has too many merge conflicts.It's still un too un unintuitive. But go ahead.Ryan Lopopolo: The models are really great at resolving merge conflicts. Yeah. And to get to a state where I'm not synchronously in the loop in my terminal, I almost don't care that there are mergeswyx: with disposable.[00:23:00] Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: We invoke a dollar land skill and that coaches codex to push the PR Wait for human and agent reviewers Wait for CI to be green.Fix the flakes if there are any merged upstream. If the PR comes into conflict, wait for everything to pass. Put it in the merge queue. Deal with flakes until it's in Maine. End. This is what it means to delegate fully, right? This is in a, very large model re probably a significant tax on humans to get PRS merged, but the agent is more than capable of doing this and I really don't have to think about it other than keep my laptop open.swyx: Yeah. I used to be much more of a control freak, but now I'm like, yeah, actually you could do a better job of this than me. Yeah. With the right context. Yes.[00:23:47] Encoding Requirementsswyx: Anything else in harness in general? Just this piece, I just wanna make sure we,Ryan Lopopolo: I think one thing that I maybe didn't make super clear in the article that I heard on Twitter as an interesting, that's respond [00:24:00]swyx: to them.What's the chatter and then what's your response?Ryan Lopopolo: Ultimately, all the things that we have encoded in docs and tests and review agents and all these things are ways to put all the non-functional requirements of building high scale, high quality, reliable software into a space that prompt injects the agent.We either write it down as docs, we add links where the error messages tell how to do the right thing. So the whole meta of the thing is to basically tease out of the heads of all the engineers on my team, what they think good looks like, what they would do by default, or what they would coach a new hire on the team to do to get things to merch.And that's why we pay attention to all the mistakes, mistakes that the agent makes, right? This is code being written that is misaligned with some as yet not written down, non-functional requirement.swyx: Sorry, what? Did the online people misunderstand orRyan Lopopolo: No,swyx: whatyouRyan Lopopolo: responded to? Somebody just literally said that.I was like, oh yeah,swyx: okay,Ryan Lopopolo: This is the [00:25:00] thing. This is what I've been doing. Oh, youswyx: agree? Yeah. I see. Interesting.Ryan Lopopolo: One other neat thing, which I did totally did not expect is folks were just. Taking the link to the article and giving it to pi or Codex and say, make my repo this,Vibhu: you achi a whole recursion.Ryan Lopopolo: And it was wildly effective. Really? It was wildly effective. NoVibhu: way. It just actually is something I tried with five, four yesterday. I didn't have time. Last time I was like out speaking of something, and this is one of my things, I was like, okay, I have this article. Can we just scaffold out what it would be like to run this?And I, I did it first as that and then I was like, okay, let me take another little side repo and say okay, if I was to fully automate this like this because I haven't written a line of code, it'sRyan Lopopolo: like over full, setVibhu: it right. The side thing I'm doing of voice. TTS I'm just like, slobbing out, whatever.It's nothing production. I'm like, how would I make this like this? And it's actually like a really good way. It's like a good way to learn what could be changed, what could be like, it's just a good analyzing, right? You give it all the codes, you give it all the context, you give it the article and it walks you through it very well.That's right. That's right.[00:25:57] Inlining Dependencies[00:25:57] Dependencies Going Away & Brett Taylor's Responseswyx: I guess one more thing before we go to Symphony is I wanted to cover [00:26:00] Brett Taylor's response. We had him on the show. He is your chairman, which is wild. Yeah. That he's reading your articles as well and like getting engaged in it. He says software dependencies are going away.Basically they can just be like vendored. Yes. Response.Ryan Lopopolo: Aswyx: hundred percent. A hundred percent agree. You still pro qr, you still pay Datadog. You still pay Temporal. Thank you.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep. The level of complexity of the dependencies that we can internalize is, I would say low, medium right now. Just based on model capability.What does the,swyx: what is medium?Ryan Lopopolo: I would say like a. A couple thousand line dependency is a thing that we could in-house No problem. Call in an afternoon of time. One neat thing about it is like probably most of that code you don't even need. Like by in-house and abstraction, you can strip away all the generic parts of it and only focus on what you need to enable the specific thing.Yes. You're building,swyx: I've been calling this the end of b******t plugins.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.swyx: Because there's so much when I published an open source thing, I want to accept everything, be liberal. I want to accept, this is post's law, but that means there's so much bloat. Yes. There's so much overhead.Ryan Lopopolo: One other neat thing about [00:27:00] this too is when we deploy Codex Security on the repo, it is able to deeply review and change. The internalized dependencies in a much lower friction way than it would be to like, push patches upstream, wait for them to be released, pull them down, make sure that's compatible with all the transitive I have in my repo and things like that.So it's also much lower friction to internalize some of these things if code is free. ‘cause the tokens are cheap sort of thing.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. I think like the only argument I have against this is basically scale testing, which obviously the larger pieces of software like Linux, MySQL, he calls up even the Datadog and Temporals and then maybe security testing where Yes.Classically, I think, is it linis tos, it said security open source is the best disinfectant.Ryan Lopopolo: Many eyes.swyx: Many eyes. And if inline your dependencies and code them up, you're gonna have to relearn mistakes from other people that Yep.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep. And to internalize that dependency, you're back to zero and you have to start.Reassembling all those bits and pieces to Yeah. Have [00:28:00] high confidence in the code as it is written. Yeah.Vibhu: Even part of the first intro of this, you basically mentioned like everything was written by codex, including internal tooling, right? So internal tooling, like when you're visualizing what's going on it's writing it for itself.swyx: Yeah. I'm built internal tools way I now, and like I just show them off and they're like, how long did you spend? And I didn't spend any time. I just prompted it,Ryan Lopopolo: very funny story here.swyx: Yeah, go ahead.Ryan Lopopolo: We had deployed our app to the first dozen users internally had some performance issues, so we asked them to export a trace for us get a tar ball, gave it to our on-call engineer, and he did a fantastic job of working with Codex to build this beautiful local Devrel tool, next JS app, the drag and drop the tar ball in, and it visualizes the entire trace.It's fantastic. Took an afternoon, but none of this was necessary. Because you could just spin up codex and give it the tar ball and ask the same thing and get the response immediately. So in a way, optimizing for human [00:29:00] legibility of that debugging process was wrong. It kept him in the loop unnecessarily when instead he could have just like Codex cooked for five minutes and gotten this same.swyx: Yeah, you verify your instincts here of this is how we used to do it. Or this is how I would have used to solve it.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. In this local observability stack. Like sure, you can de deploy Yeager to visualize the traces, but I wouldn't expect to be looking at the traces in the first place because I'm not gonna write the code to fix them.swyx: Yeah. So basically there needs to be like this kind of house stack and owning the whole loop. I think that is very well established. And it sounds like you might be like sharing more about that in the future, right?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. I think we're excited to do[00:29:36] Ghost Libraries Specs[00:29:36] Ghost Libraries & Distributing Software as SpecsRyan Lopopolo: We're gonna talk about Symphony in a little bit, but like the way we distribute it as a spec, which I think folks are calling Ghost Libraries on Twitter.This is like a such a cool name. It does mean it becomes much cheaper to share software with the world, right? You define a spec, how you could build your own specifying as much as is required for a coding agent to reassemble it [00:30:00] locally. The flow here is very cool. Like we have taken. All the scaffolding that has existed in our proprietary repo spun up a new one.Ask Codex with our repo as a reference. Write the spec. We tell it. Spin up a team ox spawn a disconnected codex to implement the spec. Wait for it to be done. Spawn another codex and another team ox to review the spec com or review the implementation compared to upstream and update the spec so it diverges less.And then you just loop over and over Ralph style until you get a spec that is with high fidelity able to reproduce the system as it is. It's fantastic.Vibhu: And you're basically, you're not really adding any of your human bias in there, right? That's correct. A lot of times people write a spec and be like, okay, I think it should be done this way, and you'll riff on something.And it's no, the agent could have just handled it like you're still scaffolding in a sense, right? I want it done this way. It can determine its spec better.swyx: That's right. That's right. Part of me it, I'm, I've been working a lot on evals recently, and part of me is wondering if [00:31:00] an agent can produce a spec that it cannot solve.Is it always capable of things that he can imagine or can you imagine things that it is impossible to do?Ryan Lopopolo: I think with Symphony, we, there's like this there's this axis where you have things that are easier, hard, or established or new, right? And I think things that are hard and new is still something that the models need humans.Yeah. Drive.swyx: Yeah. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: But I think those other quadrants are largely salt. Given the right scaffold and the right thing that's gonna drive the agent to completion,swyx: it's crazy that it solved,Ryan Lopopolo: but it means that the humans, the ones with limited time and attention get to work on the hardest stuff, like the problems where it's pure white space out in front. Or like the deepest refactorings where you don't know what the proper shape of the interfaces are. And this is where I wanna spend my time. ‘cause it lets me set up for the next level of scale.swyx: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Let's introduce Symphony.I think we've been mentioning it every now and then. Elixir. Interesting option.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.swyx: Yeah. I'm not,Ryan Lopopolo: again, like the [00:32:00] elixir manifestation here is just a derivative. Is it a modelswyx: chosen? Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Yeah. And it chose that because the process supervision and the gen servers are super amenable to the type of process orchestration that we're doing here.You are essentially spinning up little Damons for every task that is in execution and driving it to completion, which. Means the mall gets a ton of stuff for free by using Elixir and the Beam.swyx: I had to go do a crash course in Beam and Elixir, and I think most people are not operating at that scale of concurrency where you need that.But it is a good mental model for Resum ability and all those things. And these are things I care about. But tell me the story, the origin story of Symphony. What do you use it for? Is this, how did it form maybe any abandoned paths that you didn't take?[00:32:46] Terminal Free Orchestration[00:32:46] Symphony: Removing Humans from the LoopRyan Lopopolo: At the end of December we were at about three and a half PRS per engineer per day.This was before five two came out in the beginning of January. Everyone gets back from holiday with five two and no other work [00:33:00] on the repository. We were up in the five to 10 PRS per day per engineer. And I don't know about y'all, but like it's very taxing to constantly be switching like that. Like I was pretty tapped out at the end of the day, again, where are the humans spending their time? They're spending their time context switching between all these active tmox pains to drive the agent forward.swyx: Yeah. No way. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: So let's again, build something to remove ourselves from the loop. And this is what frantic sprinted adapt here to find a way to remove the need for the human to sit in front of their terminal.So a lot of experimentation with Devrel boxes and, automatically spinning up agents, like it seems like a fantastic end state here, where my life is beach. I open live twice a day and say yes no to these things. Yeah. And this is again, a super, super interesting framing for how the work is done.Because I become more latency and sensitive. I have [00:34:00] way less attachment to the code as it is written. Like I've had close to zero investment in the actual authorship experience. So if it's garbage. I can just throw it away and not care too much about it. In Symphony, there's this like rework state where once the PR is proposed and it's escalated to the human for review, it should be a cheap review.It is either mergeable or it is not. And if it's not, you move it to rework. The elixir service will completely trash the entire work tree NPR and start it again from scratch. Okay. And this is that opportunity again to say, why was it trash right? What did the agent do that wasswyx: bad. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Fix that before moving the ticket toswyx: endRyan Lopopolo: of progress again.swyx: Yeah. Why is this not in codex app? I guess this, you guys are ahead of Codex app,Ryan Lopopolo: yeah, so the way the team has been working is basically to be as AI pilled as possible and spread ahead. And a lot of the things we have worked on have fallen out [00:35:00] into a lot of the products that we have.Like we were in deep consultation with the Codex team to. Have the Codex app be a thing that exists, right? To have skills be a thing that Codex is able to use. So we didn't have to roll our own to put automations into the product. So all of our automatic refactoring agents didn't have to be these hand rolled control loops.It has been really fantastic to be, in a way, un anchored to the product development of Frontier and Codex and just very quickly try to figure out what works and then later find the scalable thing that can be deployed widely. It's been a very fun way to operate. It's certainly chaotic. I have lost track very often of what the actual state of the code looks like.‘cause I'm not in the loop. There was. One point where we had wired playwright directly up to the Electron app. With MCPM CCPs, I'm pretty bearish on because the harness forcibly injects all those tokens in the [00:36:00] context, and I don't really get a say over it. They mess with auto compaction. The agent can forget how to use the tool.There's probably only what three calls in playwright that I actually ever want to use. So I pay the cost for a ton of things. Somebody vibed a local Damon that boots playwright and exposes a tiny little shim CLI to drive it. And I had zero idea that this had occurred because to me, I run Codex and it's able to, it's oh, it's better.Yeah. Like no knowledge of this at all. Uhhuh.[00:36:30] Multi Human ChaosRyan Lopopolo: So we have had like in human space to spend a lot of time doing synchronous knowledge sharing. We have a daily standup that's 45 minutes long because we almost have to. Fan out the understanding of the current state.swyx: Yeah, I was gonna say this is good for a single human multi-agent, but multi human, multi-agent is a whole like po like explosion of stuff.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. And that this is fundamentally why we have such a rigid, like 10,000 [00:37:00] engineer level architecture in the app because we have to find ways to carve up the space so people are not trampling on each other.swyx: Sorry, I don't get the 10,000 thing. Did I miss that?Ryan Lopopolo: The structure of the repository is like 500 NPM packages.It's like architecture to the excess for what you would consider, I think normal for a seven person team. But if every person is actually like 10 to 50. Then the like numbers on being super, super deep into decomposition and sharding and like proper interface boundaries make a lot more sense.swyx: Yeah. To me, that's why I talked about Microfund ends and I, an anex is from that world, but Cool. It is just coming back to, to, to this I dunno if you have other, thoughts on. Orchestrating so much work coin going through this. Is this enough? Is this like any aha moments?Vibhu: It'll be interesting to see like where, okay, so right now you pick linear as your issue tracker, right?swyx: Or it's like a is it actually linear? This is actually linear.[00:37:55] Linear vs Slack WorkflowVibhu: Oh, that's linear. It's linear.swyx: Oh I never looked atVibhu: video. The demo video I had to download to [00:38:00] run.swyx: So I, because I'm a Slack maxie, but Yeah, linear. Linear is also really good. Yes,Ryan Lopopolo: we do make a good use of Slack. We we fire off codex to do all these lotion, elasticity, fix ups, the things that like sync that knowledge into the repository.It's super cheap. Yeah.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Just do it in Codex.swyx: My biggest plug is OpenAI needs to build Slack. You need to own Slack. Build yours. Turn this into Slack.Ryan Lopopolo: I did read about it. Youswyx: did?Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.[00:38:25] Collaboration Tools for AgentsRyan Lopopolo: I would say that if we think that we want these agents to do economically valuable work, which is like this is the mission, right?We want AI to be deployed widely, to do economically valuable work, then we need to find ways for them to naturally collaborate with humans, which means collaboration tooling, I think, is an interesting space to explore.swyx: Yeah, totally. Yeah. GitHub, slack, linear.Vibhu: Yeah, that was my thing. Okay, where do we see right now Codex has started Codex Model, then CLI, now there's an app, app can let me shoot off multiple Codex is in parallel, but there's no great team collaboration for Codex.And it [00:39:00] seems like your team had some say into what comes out, right? So you talked to ‘em, codex kind of was a thing. From there, if you guys are on the bound, what stuff that like, you might not focus on, but what do you expect other people to be building, right? So people that are like five x 50 Xing.Should you build stuff that's like very niche for your workflow, for your team? Should it be more general so other people can adopt? Is there a niche there? ‘Cause part of it is just okay, is everything just internal tooling? Do we have everything our own way? Like the way our team operates has our own ways that we like to communicate or is there a broader way to do it?Is it something like a issue tracker? Just thoughts if you wanna riff on that.[00:39:35] Standardizing Skills and CodeRyan Lopopolo: I think TBD we have not figured this out in a general way. I do think that there is leverage to be had in making the code and the processes as much the same as possible. If you think that code is context, code is prompts, it's better from the agent behavior perspective to be able to look in a package in directory X, Y, Z, and it not to have to page so [00:40:00] deeply into directory if you C, because they have the same structure, use the same language, they have the same patterns internally.And that same like leverage comes from aligning on a single set of skills that you're pouring every engineer's taste into to make sure that the agent is effective. So like in our code base, we have, I think, six skills. That's it. And if some part of the software development loop is not being covered, our first attempt is to encode it in one of the existing setup skills, which means that we can change the agent behavior.Yeah. More cheaply than changing the human driver behavior.swyx: Yeah.[00:40:39] Self Improvement via Logsswyx: Have you ever, have you experimented with agents changing their own behavior?Ryan Lopopolo: We do.swyx: Yeah. Or parent agent changing a subagents, behavior or something like that.Ryan Lopopolo: We have some bits for skill distillation. So for example, there's one neat thing you can do with Codex, which is just point it at its own session logs to ask it to tell you how you can use [00:41:00] the tool pedal better.swyx: It's like introspectionRyan Lopopolo: or ask it to do things. I useVibhu: this session better. What skills should Iswyx: high? I like the modification of, you can do, just do things to you can just ask agent to do things.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. You can just codex things. This is like a, this is like a silly emoji that we have, right? You can just codex things, you can just prompt things.It's really glorious future we live in, but okay, you can do that one-on-one. But we're actually slurping these up for the entire team into blob storage and. Running agent loops over them every day to figure out where as a team can we do better and how do we reflect that back into the repositories?Yes, though everybody benefits from everybody else's behavior for free. Same for like PR comments, right? These are all feedback. That means the code as written, deviated from what was good, a PR comment, a failed build. These are all signals that mean at some point the agent was missing context. We gotta figure out how toswyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Slurp it up and put it back in the reboot.swyx: By the way, I do this exactly right. I used to, when I use cloud code for [00:42:00] knowledge work, cloud cowork is like a nice product, right? Yes. In I think you would agree. I always have it tell me what do I do better next time? And that's the meta programming reflection thing.So I almost think like you have six reflection extraction levels in symphony and almost like the zero of layer. So the six levels are PO policy, configuration, coordination, execution, integration, observability. We've talked about a couple of these, but the zero layer is like the, okay, are we working well?Can we improve how we work? Yes. Can I modify my own workflow without MD or something? I don't know.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course you can. Like this thing is also able to cut its own tickets ‘cause we give it full access.Yeah. Make it a ticket to have it cut. Tickets you can.Put in the ticket that you expect it to file as on follow up work,swyx: like Yeah. Self-modifying. Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah.[00:42:44] Tool Access and CLI FirstRyan Lopopolo: Put, don't put the agent in a box. Give the agent full accessibility over it. Domain.swyx: I had a mental reaction when you said don't put the agent in a box. So I think you should put it in a box. Like it's just that you're giving the box everything it needs.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. Context and tools.swyx: But we're like, as developers, we're used to calling [00:43:00] out to different systems, but here you use the open source things like the Prometheus, whatever, and you run it locally so that you can have the full loop. I assume.Ryan Lopopolo: Yep.Vibhu: I think likeRyan Lopopolo: another, you wanna minimize cloud, cloud dependencies.Vibhu: You also want to make sure that you think about what the agent has access to. What does it see? Does it go back into the loop, like from the most basic sense of you let it see its own like calls, traces it can determine where it went wrong. But are you feeding that back in? So you know, just the most basic level of you wanna see exactly what's input output, like does the agent have access to.What is being outputted, right? It can self-improve a lot of these things. It's allRyan Lopopolo: text, right? My job is to figure out ways to funnel text from one agent to the other.swyx: It's so strange like way back at the start of this whole AI wave Andre was like, English is the hottest day programming language.It's here, it's just Yeah. The feature as well.Vibhu: A lot of, okay. Like a lot of software, a lot of stuff. There's a gui, it's made for the human. We're seeing the evolution of CLI for everything, right? All tools have CLIs. Your agents can use [00:44:00] them well, do we get good vision? Do we get good little sandboxes?Like right now? It's a really effective way, right? Models love to use tools. They love the best. They love to read through text. So slap a CLI let it go loose. That works for everything.Ryan Lopopolo: It does. Yeah. Yeah.[00:44:14] UI Perception and RasterizingRyan Lopopolo: We've also been adapting nont, textual things to that shape in order to improve model behavior in some ways, right?We want the agent to be able to see the UI agents do not perceive visually in the same way that we do. They don't see a red box, they see red box button, right? They see these things in latent space. So if we want, Hey, yeah, I do. We haveswyx: a ding if that goes off every time. Alien spaceRyan Lopopolo: ding.Anyway if we wanna actually make it see the layout, it's almost easier to rasterize that image to ask EOR and feed it in to the agent. Ha. And there's no reason you can't do both, right? To like further refine how the model perceives the object it's [00:45:00] manipulating.swyx: Cool. Could we, you wanna talk about a couple more of these layers that might bear more introspection or that you have personal passion for?[00:45:07] Coordination Layer with ElixirRyan Lopopolo: I will say that the coordination layer here was a really tricky piece to get right.swyx: Let's do it. Yep. I'm all about that. And this is Temporal core.Ryan Lopopolo: This is where when we turn the spec into Elixir, where like the model takes a shortcut, right? Like it's oh, I have all these primitives that I can make use of in this lovely runtime that has native process supervision.Which is I think, a neat way to have taken the spec and made it more choices achievable by making choices that naturally mapswyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: To the domain, right? In the same way that like you would prefer to have a TypeScript model repo if you are doing full stack web development, right? Because the ability to share types across the front end and backend reduces a lot of complexity.And becauseswyx: that's what graph kill used to be.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right. Andswyx: I don't know if it's still alive, butRyan Lopopolo: [00:46:00] no humans in the loop here. So like my own personal ability to write or not write elixir. Doesn't really have to bias us away from using the right tool for the job. It is just wild.swyx: Love it. I love it.Yeah. I wonder if any languages struggle more than others because of this? I feel like everyone has their own abstractions. That would make sense. But maybe it might be slower, it might be more faulty where like you'd have to just kick the server every now and then. I, I don't know. I think observability layer is really well understood.Integration layer, CP is dead. I think all these just like a really interesting hierarchy to travel up and down. It's common language for people working on the system to understandRyan Lopopolo: The policy stuff is really cool, right? Yeah. You don't really have to build a bunch of code to make sure the system wait for the, to passswyx: it's institutional knowledge.Ryan Lopopolo: Yeah. You just give it the G-H-C-L-I with some text that say CI has to pass. It makes the maintenance of these systems a lot easier.[00:46:57] Agent Friendly CLI Outputswyx: Do you think that CLI maintainers need to be [00:47:00] do anything special for agents or just as is? It's good because like I don't think when people made the G GitHub, CLI, they anticipated this happening.Ryan Lopopolo: That's correct. The GH CLI is fantastic. It's great super industry.swyx: Everyone go try GH repo create GH pull and then pull request number, right? GH HPR, like 1 53, whatever. And then it like pullsRyan Lopopolo: basically my only interaction with the GitHub web UI at this point is GH PR view dash web.Exactly. Glanceswyx: at the diffRyan Lopopolo: and be like Sure thing. Send it. Yeah. But the CLI are nice ‘cause they're super token efficient and they can be made more token efficient really easily. Like I'm sure you all have seen like I go to build Kite or Jenkins and I could just get this massive wall of build output.And in order to unblock the humans, your developer productivity team is almost certainly gonna write some code that parses the actual exception out of the build logs and sticks it in a sticky note at the top of the page. And you basically [00:48:00] want CLI to be structured in a similar way, right? You're gonna want to patch dash silent to prettier because the agent doesn't care that every file was already formatted.Just wants to know it's either formatted or not. So it can then go run a right command. Similarly, like in our PNPM distributed script runner, when we had one, when you do dash recursive, like it produces a absolute mountain of text. But all of that is for passing. Test suites. So we ended up wrapping all of this in another scriptswyx: to suppress the,Ryan Lopopolo: which you can vibe the channel only output the failing parts of the tests.swyx: You make a pipe errors versus the standard, standard out. I don't know. Okay. Whatever. Too much thinking have to do that. The CII used to maintain SCLI for my company and yeah, this is like core, very core to my heart. But you're vibing my job.Ryan Lopopolo: That's right.swyx: Cool. Any other things?This is a long spec. [00:49:00] I appreciate that. It's got a lot of strong opinions in here. Any other things that we should highlight? I think obviously you can spend the whole day going through some of these, but I do think that some of these have a lot of care or some of this you might wanna tell people, Hey, take this, but, make it your own.[00:49:15] Blueprint Spec and GuardrailsRyan Lopopolo: Fundamentally, software is made more flexible when it's able to adapt to the environment in which it is deployed, which means that things like linear or GitHub even are specified within the spec, but not required pieces of it. There's like a more platonic ideal of the thing that you could swap in like Jira or Bitbucket, for example.But being able to tightly specify things like the ID formats or how the Ralph Loop works for the individual agents. Basically means you can get up and running with a fully specified system quickly that you then evolve later on. I think we never intended for this to be a static spec that you can [00:50:00] never change.It's more like a blueprint to get something worth a starting point up and running.swyx: Yeah.Ryan Lopopolo: For you then to vibe later to your heart's content,swyx: you have like code and scripts in here where it's oh, I think this is a really good prompt. It's just a very long prompt.Ryan Lopopolo: Fundamentally, the agents are good at following instructions, so give them instructions.And it will, improve the reliability of the result. We, much like the way we use Symphony, we don't want folks to have to monitor the agent as it is vibing the system into existence. So being very opinionatedVery strict around what these success criteria are means that our deployment success rate goes up. Yeah. It means we don't have to get tickets on this thing.Vibhu: Think it all goes back to that like code to disposable, right? Like early on when you had CLI or you'd kick off a Codex run, it would take two hours. You would wanna monitor okay, I'm in the workflow of just using one.I don't want it to go down the wrong path. I'll cut it off and, just shoot off four, like that was my favorite thing of the Codex app, right? Yeah. Just Forex it like, [00:51:00] it's okay. One of them will probably be right, one of them might be better. Stop overthinking it. Like my first example was probably like deep research.When you put out deep research and I'd ask it something like, I asked it something about LLM, it thought it was legal something and spent an hour, came back with a report completely off the rails. And I was like, okay, I gotta monitor this thing a bit. No don't monitor it. Just you want to build it so it's that it, it goes the right way.And you don't wanna, you don't wanna sit there and babysit, right? You don't want to babysit your agentsRyan Lopopolo: with that deep research query that you made. Looking at the bad result, you probably figured out you needed to tweak your prompt Yeah. A bit, right? That's that guardrail that you fed back into the code base for the task, your prompt to further align the agent's execution.Same sort of concept supply there too.swyx: When you talk, how are the customers feelingRyan Lopopolo: for Symphony? I think we have none, right? This is a thing we have put out into theswyx: world. Symphony's internal, right? As long as you are happy, you are the customer. That'

Have you ever wondered where it all started? In this episode of the Journal Podcast, Chris Shadforth, Communications Director at the CII Group, looks back on the history of the CII, alongside our Brand Manager, Harry Elliott. We'll be exploring the origins and evolutions of the CII, how it began, why it formed and how our physical presence and identity has changed over time.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from February 3 through March 3, 2026. Some of the topics addressed in this episode include: New CII research showing a decline in equal voting rights when reviewing initial public offerings in 2025, various investor lawsuits against public companies that omitted shareholder proposals from their annual proxy statements, and the introduction of the  Enhancing Multi-Class Share Disclosures Act in the Senate.

¡Bienvenidos a la Temporada 14 de Café de Datos! Iniciamos este nuevo ciclo con una invitada de lujo: STELLA JIMENEZ, estratega en innovación, diseñadora gráfica y cofundadora de más de 10 startups con una trayectoria de 15 años transformando tecnología en valor real.En esta charla, STELLA nos lleva por un viaje desde sus raíces en Tampico hasta su consolidación como líder en el ecosistema digital de Monterrey. Exploramos cómo el diseño gráfico no es solo estética, sino una herramienta fundamental para la resolución de problemas y la creación de mensajes con sentido.Lo que aprenderás en este episodio:Innovación como Marco de Trabajo: Por qué la innovación no es solo una serie de actividades iniciales, sino un proceso transversal que debe generar resultados de negocio medibles.El Equilibrio del "Aventurero": Cómo navegar entre la planeación estratégica (visión) y la ejecución (prueba y error) sin perder el norte.Storytelling y Usuario: La importancia de las historias de usuario y de tener siempre presente para quién estamos construyendo.De la Idea al Producto: La anécdota de cómo un "template" para apps de eventos se convirtió en el primer startup de su carrera.Second Face: El nuevo capítulo profesional de Estela enfocado en acompañar a empresas y emprendedores a superar el miedo a la incertidumbre y ejecutar transformaciones digitales con propósito.Si eres un líder buscando transformar tu negocio, un apasionado del diseño o alguien que quiere entender cómo la tecnología impacta vidas, este café es para ti.¡Suscríbete y acompáñanos en este camino rumbo al episodio 200! Temporada 14 impulsada por DATLAS y CII.IA .Si quieres registrarte para el TALLER DE IA Colaborativo busca la liga en: @DatlasMX | Instagram, Facebook | LinktreeSupport the showRecuerda que puedes conectar con nuestras redes y sitios web.En Datlas nos dedicamos a responder la pregunta DÓNDE con la mayor cantidad de datos que nadie en México. Lo hacemos a través de nuestras soluciones de análisis de entorno, monitor de indicadores y Retail & CPGs solver. Conoce más en www.datlas.mx , en nuestras redes: @DatlasMX | Instagram, Facebook | Linktree y aprende vía el sitio web de www.datlasacademy.com 

Story of the Week (DR):WarSaudi Aramco CEO issues stark warning: Iran war could bring ‘catastrophic' shock to global oilPrediction markets face questions on Iran war bets, from regime change to nuclear detonationThe Maduro Capture (Jan 2026): Just hours before the U.S. captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, a new Polymarket account wagered $30,000 on his removalIsraeli Military Indictments (Feb 2026): At least two individuals in the Israeli defense forces were reportedly indicted for using classified intelligence to place winning bets on the specific dates of military strikes in IranNational Security Risk: A recent report by Responsible Statecraft warns that officials with the power to influence military timing could alter operations to maximize their payout The Atlantic Council recently warned that foreign adversaries can "weaponize the odds" by dumping money into a thinly traded market to create a false narrative that a country is about to collapse, potentially triggering a real-world panic or bank run.Kalshi (private)1/13/25: Kalshi names Donald Trump Jr. as strategic advisorPolymarket (college dropout Shayne Coplan)8/26/25: Kalshi Advisor Donald Trump Jr. Joins Rival Polymarket BoardTrump Jr.'s 1789 Capital is making an eight-figure investment in the controversial prediction-market company.AI JobsAnthropic just mapped out which jobs AI could potentially replace. A ‘Great Recession for white-collar workers' is absolutely possibleThe most AI-exposed group is 16 percentage points more likely to be female, earns 47% more on average, and is nearly four times as likely to hold a graduate degree compared to the least exposed group.Sam Altman admits AI is killing the labor-capital balance—and says nobody knows what to do about itOracle expected to slash thousands of jobs as massive AI spending creates financial cash crisisLayoffs are feeling awfully tempting for a lot of companies right nowCEOs are using one number in the AI age to decide how many people they still needRevenue per employeePatreon's CEO says AI will be a 'bloodbath for the world's creative people' unless tech companies pay upAtlassian slashes 10% of workforce to 'self-fund' investments in AI and enterprise salesThe unexpected 92,000 drop in payrolls is a clue we might be reading the AI jobs narrative all wrongWorker painAI Is Forcing Employees to Work Harder Than EverAI Job Loss Is Breaking the Psyche of Workers, Psychiatrist Warns‘AI brain fry' is real — and it's making workers more exhausted, not more productive, new study findsEconomist Dambisa Moyo says CEOs must play a role in sustaining the consumer class as AI eliminates jobsThis could only happen if we weren't controlled by the TechBro Dropout GangCII‘Not a goodbye…': What Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen told employees after announcing decision to step downShantanu Narayen, CEO of Adobe for 18 years, will step down once a successor is appointed, while continuing as board chairman.Google Hands Sundar Pichai $692M Package Tied to AI BetsPackage uniquely ties executive pay to Waymo autonomous vehicle and Wing drone delivery venture performanceCompensation structure sets precedent for linking CEO pay to specific AI business unit success rather than overall company metricsSo now CEOs can either game their bonus by obsessively focusing on one thing or doom the rest of the company by obsessively focusing on one thing or bothAs You Sow Files Lawsuit Challenging Chubb's Refusal to Put Shareholder Proposal Addressing Climate-Driven Insurance Crisis on Company ProxyThe proposal asks shareholders to vote on whether Chubb should commission a report assessing whether pursuing subrogation claims against parties responsible for climate change could reduce losses, benefit shareholders, and help preserve affordable homeowners insurance.This lawsuit follows the SEC's decision to abandon its longstanding role as a neutral arbiter in the shareholder proposal process. In November 2025, the SEC announced that it would no longer review corporate no-action requests under Rule 14a-8, effectively forcing these matters into court—an expensive and lengthy process.Sen. Elizabeth Warren Slams SEC As 'Lap Dog For Trump's Billionaire Buddies' After It Dismisses Another Crypto Case"The SEC should not be a lap dog for Trump's billionaire buddies"Live Nation, Ticketmaster's Owner, Settles Antitrust Case With Justice DeptThat was fastLive Nation Entertainment board includes Trump administration bro Richard Grenell 2 of 12 are womenGrenell is somehow the president of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts despite no background in anything resembling “the Arts.”He replaced a woman, Deborah Rutter. The chair is President Trump. Of course. And the board now is down to only one woman: 2 years ago it was 60% female.Glass Lewis recommends voting against Starbucks director over ‘board-level E&S oversight'New York State Comptroller, New York City Comptroller, SOC Investment Group, Canadian responsible investment association SHARE, Merseyside Pension Fund, and Trillium oppose the re-election of lead independent director Jørgen Vig Knudstorp, as well as Beth Ford, chair of Starbucks' Nominating and Corporate Governance (NCG) committee.Ford was chair of the EPCI committee and now leads the NCG committee, which assumed some of the responsibilities of the EPCI when it was disbanded.In its benchmark policy proxy paper, Glass Lewis has recommended investors vote against Ford.Goodliest of the Week (MM/DR):DR:Uber rolls out women-only option in the USDR: CEOs of failed banks would have to surrender pay under bipartisan planSenate legislation would mandate “clawbacks” of executive pay, three years after the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.MM: 24 states, Nintendo sue Trump over tariffs as refund fight growsCostco CEO Ron Vachris Pledges to Return Tariff Refunds to ShoppersMM: Andrew Yang says we should stop taxing workers — and start taxing AIAssholiest of the Week (MM):War on Women: part 1Alex KarpPalantir CEO Makes Shocking Confession on Disrupting Democratic PowerPalantir CEO Alex Karp thinks his AI technology will lessen the power of “highly educated, often female voters, who vote mostly Democrat” while increasing the power of working-class men.“This technology disrupts humanities-trained—largely Democratic—voters, and makes their economic power less. And increases the economic power of vocationally trained, working-class, often male, working-class voters,” Karp said in a CNBC interview Thursday. “And so these disruptions are gonna disrupt every aspect of our society. And to make this work, we have to come to an agreement of what it is we're going to do with the technology; how are we gonna explain to people who are likely gonna have less good, and less interesting jobs.”To Alexandra Schiff, ex WSJ reporter and daughter of Tom Wolfe, who wrote a semi adoring Silicon Valley book in 2017 holding Peter Thiel as a god (and now sits on this board with Thiel), and to Lauren Friedman Stat, who only seems to post Palantir sizzle reels and as best I can tell is married to a “David Stat” who is the name of a “Director” (not on the board?) of Palantir who is in a Form 4 for selling stock:What the fuck are you doing. Do you read what this dude says? Are you that cucked to the tech bro elite you can't stop and say, “Hey, Alex, maybe tone down the suggestion you're trying to stop female Democrats from voting?”War on Women: part 2Glass Lewis recommends voting against Starbucks director over ‘board-level E&S oversight'Because Starbucks disbanded the Environmental, Partner and Community Impact committee of the board - launched in 2023, dissolved in November 2025Committee launched after majority supported SHP to focus on labor issuesJorgen Knudstorp and Daniel Servitje, the OTHER committee members, somehow escape entirelyKnudstorp is the Lead independent director, Niccol is the CEO and chair of the board (yes, chair)But instead of targeting Niccol or even Knudstorp, Glass Lewis targeted the female chair of the committee… ONLYIf the CEO gets to be chair - doesn't the CEO have to take responsibility for board overall? If you have an LID, are they accountable?? Why would the chair of a committee be target without the chair of the board or LID? Can a committee chair dissolve their own committee??Cracker Barrel - the scapegoat was the person of color who had “diversity” in their job description, not the longest tenured director who was also chair of the board but was a white guy - and Glass Lewis suggested voting out the brown dudeWar on Women: part 3 speed roundDOGE, DEI, and climate changeBlack women were disproportionately impacted by DOGE cuts. A year later, they're rebuilding careers for themselves and each otherI Watched 6 Hours of DOGE Bro Testimony. Here's What They Had to Say For ThemselvesOver the course of a six hour long or so deposition, Justin Fox, a former investment banker turned DOGE bro, refused to define what he believes counts as DEI; admitted he used ChatGPT to scan government contracts for terms such as “Black” and “homosexual” but not “white” or “caucasian;” and said that one of the grants he helped slash was “not for the benefit of humankind” before walking that claim back.Why ‘bringing your whole self to work' is a trap, especially for womenFormer Goldman Sachs CEO says DEI programs are ‘counterproductive,' arguing ‘you're branding the people in that program'Climate change: Women face worst impacts as funding support falls shortIn 2025, a UN women report warned that under a worst-case climate scenario, up to 158.3 million more women and girls may live in extreme poverty globally as a result of climate change by 2050Headliniest of the WeekDR: Shell CEO's Pay Jumps 60% Despite Profit Drop and Fatal AccidentsDR: Jack Dorsey Defends Wearing “Love” Hat While Firing 4,000 Employees in Pivot to AI: "I wanted to approach the whole situation with love."MM: Ozempic mania has even Olive Garden and The Cheesecake Factory cutting back on portion sizesMM: Cracker Barrel sales, traffic continue to slump months after failed rebrandWho Won the Week?DR: National Museum of the American Indian and the coffee at CII, was actually pretty not grossMM: The Council for Institutional Investors Spring Conference, who got to witness Proxy Countdown livePredictionsDR: CII loses our phone numberMM: The women start the uprising now:

COLLECTING data to meet emissions regulations is good for business, two guests from 90POE tell listeners to this latest Lloyd's List Intelligence podcast. Dhara Patel, Head of Product Performance at the maritime technology provider, 90POE — a name that reflects shipping's role in transporting 90% of everything — and its Senior Advisor for Performance, Dimitris Argyros, argue that the data that must be collected and reported to meet IMO and regional regulators can also give shipowners and operators significant commercial advantages. Mr Argyros refers to a number of regulations that rely on fuel consumption — and thus emissions — data, in particular for IMO's Data Collection System (DCS) and the EU's Monitoring, Reporting and Verification (MRV) Regulation. Complying with the latter effectively provides a licence to operate, he says. Ms Patel also acknowledges the operational significance of these regulatory requirements, saying that when talking to fleet managers, it is “really striking... how quickly the conversation is shifting from a compliance conversation to a... financial budgeting conversation.” Those discussions find a particular focus around the need for a “clear strategy around emissions” to avoid the penalties for non-compliance with, in particular, the EU's Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). For a large fleet, these could amount to millions of euros per year, she says. At least with the EU ETS and its FuelEU Maritime regulation, their application is clear, Mr Argyros says. Based on factors including a carbon price coupled with compliance penalties or surpluses, “it's quite easy to quantify [their] impact,” he says. But when it comes to the IMO's annual Carbon Intensity Indicator (CII), “it gets a bit more interesting”, because vessels with lower ratings are less attractive in the market, he says, with charter parties often requiring a ship to be returned with the same CII rating as when it was delivered. Ms Patel offers some comments in the podcast based on feedback from compliance managers who are “having to deal with multiple reporting frameworks simultaneously” while managing emissions, planning voyages and optimising their commercial planning, which “leads to an increased demand in having the right data near real time”. She believes that this is where platforms such as 90 POE's OpenOcean STUDIO can simplify management of multiple systems, each generating their own data that might be stored in separate siloes. By making all this accessible, she says that the data that has been collected for compliance can be used to discern “real time actionable insights.” This approach will be especially significant in the future, Mr Argyros suggests, as new fuels come into use and if IMO tightens its CII thresholds. Looking ahead, he is not hopeful of IMO and EU emissions requirements becoming aligned, “and that's the real challenge,” he concludes.

In this episode, Rebecca Aston, Head of Professional Standards, and Adam Harper, Executive Director, Strategy, Advocacy and Professional Standards at the CII Group are discussing Continuing Professional Development, or CPD. They will be talking about the FCA's withdrawal of 15 hours under the Insurance Distribution Directive (IDD), the requirement for CII and PFS Members, and the process of CPD audits.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Pat Niemann, Leader of EY Americas Center for Board Matters, on the results of a 2025 survey of corporate board members: What drives board effectiveness amid uncertainty.Pat also leads the EY Audit Committee Forum and previously managed Ernst & Young LLP's Los Angeles office and audit practice.

In this episode of Software People Stories, VR Govindarajan, aka Govi, the co-founder and executive chairman of Perfios Software, shares his comprehensive journey from the early days of his career to building successful startups. Govi dives deep into his academic background, industry experience, and the various startups he co-founded, including Aztec Soft and Perfios. He emphasizes the importance of technology-focused innovation, building a product company out of India, and navigating the challenges of operating in a regulated industry. Govi also shares his insights on the value of teamwork, culture, and maintaining a larger purpose beyond just making money. Throughout the conversation, he provides valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs on raising funds, managing teams, and scaling businesses globally. 00:00 Introduction and Welcome00:35 Govi's Background and Career Journey01:43 Early Startups and Challenges02:48 Building Aztec Soft and Going Public03:10 Transition to Perfios and Product Focus06:18 Navigating the Dot-Com Bust08:18 Acquisitions and Selling to MindTree13:41 Importance of Team Effort17:34 Choosing the BFSI Sector20:39 Challenges in a Regulated Industry22:29 Managing B2B Sales and Integration24:26 Focusing on Product Development24:46 Creating a New Market Category25:06 Challenges of Evangelizing a New Product26:21 Leveraging Global Trends28:07 Expanding to International Markets34:25 Managing Code and Customizations36:54 Importance of Local Customer Support38:11 Leveraging AI and Data41:22 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs44:51 The Importance of Culture and Values48:53 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsThe timestamps are approximate and do not include the time for the intro. Add about 90 seconds to locate the sectionAs the Co-founder & Executive Chairman, Govi has been the driving force behind building Perfios into the Operating system for the BFSI in India and across the globe. Perfios is an acknowledged technology driven SaaS Pioneer that works across almost all financial institutions (Banking and Insurance Sector) both in India and across 18 countries in South East Asia, Middle East and North Africa. Perfios is a Unicorn and is backed by some of the best Global Investors. As a fintech Pioneer, Govi has been part of many committees in industry forums such as FICCI, CII and ASSOCHAM. He has been an active speaker at many BFSI related conferences and public institutions.He brings over 35 years of rich experience in the IT industry across the US and India. Before co-founding Perfios, Govi was the Co-founder, CTO, and Board Member at Aztecsoft, a pioneering force in the offshore product development space. From being a startup, Aztecsoft got listed in the Indian markets and was run as a public company before being sold to another Public company. Prior to starting Aztecsoft, he played a key role in advancing database technologies at global technology leaders such as Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) and IBM.Govi holds an M.S. in Computer Science from the University of Massachusetts and a B.E. in Electrical and Electronics Engineering from the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore. He may be reached at: govi@perfios.com

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from January 6 through February 3, 2026. Some of the topics addressed in this episode include: The SEC's announcement objecting to the use of exempt solicitations by smaller shareholders; Proposed revisions to Regulation S-K; Developments in Delaware corporation law; and CII's letter to the SEC supporting Nasdaq's proposal on new listing standards for Chinese companies.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from December 2, 2025 – January 6, 2026. Some of the topics addressed in this episode include: President Donald Trump's executive order relating to proxy advisors; provisions of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2026 that were approved by Congress and signed into law by President Trump; and CII's letter to SEC Chairman Paul S. Atkins regarding the Rule 14a-8 process.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from October 28 through December 2, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews James D. Cox, a member of the Shadow SEC and the Brainerd Currie Distinguished Professor of Law at Duke University. Their discussion covers the Shadow SEC's view of SEC Chair Paul Atkin's plans to scrap quarterly reporting.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from October 1-28, 2025.

(0:00) Intro to this episode(1:34) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.(2:21) Start of interview(3:19) Joele Frank's origin story(5:02) Anne Chapman's origin story(8:41) The history and focus of the firm Joelle Frank (now has ~250 people, with offices in NYC and SF).(12:46) Shareholder activism in today's market(15:52) The Exxon Mobil activism case [see E28 with Aiesha Mastagni from CalSTRS, starting at 23:27](18:17) Say-on-Pay and Executive Compensation Dynamics "compensation is a real emotional topic"(21:27) On mega grants.(23:17) The evolution of M&A in shareholder activism(25:44) Geopolitical Tensions in the Boardroom. Examples: US Steel (Golden share by US), MP Materials (10% equity stake).(28:38) Evolution of ESG/DEI, including boardroom diversity.(33:00) AI, PBCs, and Governance Challenges. Is it a bubble? Concern about ethical AI.(38:35) Case Study: Norfolk's Proxy Fight. Digital component to increase retail component of the vote.(44:14) How activists are proposing more qualified directors to boards (focus on individual directors post universal proxy rules).(48:50) The Changing Landscape of Board Composition(49:55) The Importance of Board Evaluations(51:45) On the "stay private or go public" debateJoele Frank is the founder and Managing Partner of Joele Frank. Anne Chapman is a Managing Director at Joele Frank. You can follow Evan on social media at:X: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Kobi Kastiel of Tel Aviv University, Harvard Law School and the European Corporate Governance Institute. Professor Kastiel is a co-author of a recently issued research paper entitled the "Courts, Legislation, and Delaware Corporate Law."

Brought to you by the Founders Unfiltered podcast by A Junior VC - Unscripted conversations with Indian founders about their story and the process of building a company. Hosted by Aviral and Mazin.Join us as we talk to Rajan Navani, the Founder of JetSynthesys about their story.Rajan Navani is the Vice Chairman & Managing Director of the JetLine Group of Companies and the Founder & CEO of JetSynthesys. A visionary entrepreneur, he has transformed a 90-year-old family business into a digital powerhouse spanning gaming, esports, music, wellness, and Web3. Rajan is also the founder of the India@75 movement and has served as National Chairman of CII's Young Indians, shaping conversations around India's digital and demographic future.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from September 2 to October 1, 2025.

Gayatri Kalyanaraman is in conversation with Sunil David, Digital Technology Consultant |Ex-Regional Director(IOT)- AT&T  we discuss What does it take to evolve from installing multiplexers in the 90s to becoming one of India's most respected IoT evangelists and startup mentors? In this episode, Sunil David shares his three-decade journey across telecom, IoT, and digital transformation. Early Career FoundationsSunil began his professional journey in 1994, right after completing his Electronics and Communication Engineering. Unlike many peers who shifted to unrelated fields, he was one of the “lucky few,” as he puts it, to continue working in his chosen discipline for decades.First role – Multiplexers & Railway Networks His very first assignment was with a small company where he installed multiplexers across India's railway network. These devices connected mainframe computers to remote terminals, ensuring reliable communication across long distances. This hands-on experience with infrastructure and connectivity became the bedrock for his later work in telecom.CMS Computers – Networking Era He then moved to CMS Computers, focusing on LAN and WAN networking solutions. This gave him exposure to enterprise IT and network integration, skills that were highly relevant when India's telecom sector was on the cusp of privatization.Telstra Wecom (1996) – Entering Telecom's Liberalization Phase A pivotal career move came in 1996 when Sunil joined Telstra Wecom, a joint venture between Telstra Australia and VSNL (later Tata Communications). This was just two years after India opened its telecom sector to private players—a historic shift.AT&T and Passion for IoTAfter short but formative experiences in networking, VSAT installations, and enterprise software, 2000 marked a turning point when Sunil joined AT&T. What began as a role in sales grew into a 14-year career where he rose to become Regional Head for South India, handling enterprise connectivity services.Focused on telecom and enterprise connectivity, including mobile, landline, and data services for large enterprises.Built strong CXO-level relationships, gaining insight into how enterprises viewed technology not just as infrastructure, but as enablers of business growth.Developed a strategic mindset: learning how to sell not just technology, but business outcomes—a skill that would become vital in his IoT work. After a short return to Telstra, Sunil came back to AT&T in 2017—this time with a completely different mandate: to lead AT&T's IoT business in India and ASEAN.This was when IoT adoption globally was still nascent, and in India it was just taking shape. Sunil recalls that he had been personally fascinated by IoT since 2011–2012, when the idea of “things being connected to the internet”—from cars to machines—caught his imagination.Technology Evangelism & MentorshipSpeaking engagements became not just a platform to promote AT&T's services, but also a way to educate enterprises and build credibility in the ecosystem.At AT&T, Sunil saw how business and technology intersect—sparking his next chapter as a technology evangelist with a focus on strategy, startups, and purpose-driven innovation.His first keynote was on 9th August 2017.From there, he went on to speak at 400+ industry forums, covering IoT, AI, metaverse, cybersecurity, and digital transformation. He transitioned from corporate leader to solopreneur and mentor, working with startups in AI, IoT, sustainability, and climate change.His contributions to CII, NASSCOM, and initiatives like Women Wizards Rule Tech, where he has mentored thousands of women in digital skills.How he manages his time, creates content for 32,000+ LinkedIn followers, and leverages tools like ChatGPT and Perplexity to boost productivity.Practical advice for professionals: continuous learning, attending industry forums, building a legacy, and balancing financial, physical, and spiritual well-being.At this time Sunil David, works on immersing himself in a specific set of fields to be a thought leader, and fully dedicate himself to mentorship, sustainability, and giving back. Quotable Moments from Sunil David“Imagine the value you can unlock when billions of assets—from machines in a factory to vehicles on the road—start generating data. The opportunities to monetize and transform industries are humongous.”“We are clearly seeing the move from being reactive to predictive. Thanks to AI and IoT, enterprises can act proactively before something causes damage—whether it's a machine on a shop floor or even human health.”“Optimizing energy usage is not just good for the environment—it makes business sense. Lower energy bills mean direct savings, while reducing carbon emissions benefits the planet.”“Learning never stops. We are in a lifelong journey of learning and unlearning. The day you stop learning is the day you stop growing.”“It's not just about financial success. You have to ask yourself—what legacy am I leaving behind? Will people remember the impact I created?”“My forte is B2B, especially AI and IoT for manufacturing and sustainability. Staying focused allows me to truly add value to startups, rather than spreading myself thin.”About Sunil DavidSunil David is an Independent Digital Technology Consultant with over 30 years of experience in the IT and Telecom Industry . He's spent almost 20 years with AT&T India. In his last stint with AT&T held from March 2017 until April 2022 , he was the Regional Director – IOT( India and ASEAN ). He's had extensive experience in Business Strategy , Sales , Business Development and Alliance & Partnership building during my AT&T stints .Sunil is associated as a Gold Mentor with T-Hub ( Telangana Hub) based in Hyderabad one of India's largest startup incubators supporting some of India's most innovative technology startups specifically focused on areas around Smart Manufacturing and ESG.Sunil is a much sought after speaker in several industry forum on topics related to IOT, AI, 5G, Digital Transformation , Industry 4.0 and 5.0 , Gen AI, Metaverse, Future of Technology , Future of Work , Digital Marketing , Cyber security , Quantum Computing, ESG etc. He has also authored a number of articles for various technology websites, B2B Tech and telecom related publications and a few prominent media houses like Fortune India, Indian Express, Moneycontrol, ET Edge , Communications Today, Voice and Data, etc.Sunil is actively engaged with Industry bodies like CII, NASSCOM , IET, IACC etc working on a number of National initiatives around Digital Transformation advocacy and awareness for Enterprises especially SMEs, Digital Skilling for Women, Startup-Corporate connect , ESG awareness etc.Sunil is an alumnus of Symbiosis Institute of Management Studies, Pune ( Post Graduate Diploma in Business Administration with specialization in Marketing )Sunil can be reached at https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunil-david-8165971/

BW Epic Kosan (BWEK), a world leader in LPG, petrochemicals and speciality gas transportation, has signed an agreement with bound4blue for the installation of a 24 metre tall eSAIL suction sail on the 2007-buit Helena Kosan. The autonomous wind propulsion system, to be installed in 2026, will allow BWEK to save fuel, cut emissions, reduce costs and simplify regulatory compliance, as the Singapore-based company invests to support industry decarbonisation goals. Suction sail uses LPG to power tankers Safe, simple sailing "The tanker and LPG market is a key growth area for bound4blue, so it's fantastic to agree a contract with the world leader in last-mile delivery of LPG, petrochemicals and other specialty gases," comments José Miguel Bermúdez, CEO & Co-founder, bound4blue. "Our mechanically simple solution delivers unique benefits for the segment, with the ability to position the sail's maintenance door far above the deck and thus entirely remove the system from hazardous areas. This means non-explosion proof units can be installed easily on a vessel such as an LPG carrier, or any other tanker, negating the need for more costly, complex ATEX-proof solutions." "When this simplicity is added to the proven performance and benefits of the system, which is also compact in size due to its exceptional propulsive efficiency, you have a technology perfectly suited to help owners such as BWEK meet ambitious commercial and environmental goals. We're thrilled to partner with the team for this exciting project." Market benefits The DNV Type Approved eSAIL works by dragging air across an aerodynamic surface to generate lift up to seven times greater than rigid sails of the same size, delivering greater power through smaller vessel footprints. In doing so, fuel use and emissions are reduced, easing compliance with regulations such as EU ETS, CII, FuelEU Maritime (with additional benefits through the wind reward factor) and the newly proposed IMO GFI framework. Recent orders for eSAILs have been placed by companies such as Maersk Tankers, Marflet Marine and Klaveness Combination Carriers, with new installations completed for Odfjell, Eastern Pacific Shipping and Louis Dreyfus Company. Investing in the future "We are committed to investing in proven technology that supports and enables our drive to reduce operational environmental footprints," explains Jakob Bode, CEO, BWEK. "We have so far introduced a range of innovations including ultrasonic transducers, graphene-based propeller coatings and advanced weather routing to cut emissions and empower efficiencies, in addition to actively participating in projects to advance the adoption of green fuels such as ammonia." "Wind power was identified as having potential and, after careful studies, bound4blue's eSAIL was selected as the system of choice. We look forward to benefitting from its simplicity and efficacy in action on the Helena Kosan from 2026 onwards." Plug and play The installation will be carried out in a simple two-step process, with preparatory work conducted at a scheduled dry docking in 2025 and a 'plug and play' fitting of the unit the following year. bound4blue's eSAILs are suitable for both newbuilds and retrofitting across the vast majority of vessel segments, including, but not limited to, Tankers, Bulkers, Ro-Ros, Cruise ships, Ferries, Gas Carriers, and General Cargo vessels. The technology offers a typical payback period of less than five years. bound4blue About bound4blue bound4blue develops automated wind-assisted propulsion systems as a turnkey solution for all shipowners and shipping companies seeking to reduce fuel costs and polluting emissions. bound4blue's eSAIL system is a validated solution for saving fuel and emissions, completely autonomous, with low maintenance and easy installation onboard, being the most cost-efficient wind propulsion technology today. It is suitable for Tankers, Bulkers, Ro-Ros, Cruise Ships, Ferries, Gas Carriers, and General Cargo vessels,...

This week, Pete is rested after his holiday and may even be more tanned than Roger, for once! We answer a mixed bag of questions ranging from financial planning if you're on benefits to tax-free cash recycling and lots besides! Shownotes: https://meaningfulmoney.tv/QA24  01:38  Question 1 Hi there! I'm one of the very many people who look set to lose disability benefits (PIP and ESA) at the end of next year. I was disabled following an industrial injury 15 years ago and have a lifetime award of Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit assessed as 70% disabled which currently brings £155/week. It's definitely not enough to live on let alone pay the additional costs of being disabled. (there's no chance of recovery enough to work as I can't access healthcare but that's a long story) I am 50 and conventional life plans involve maintaining saving/investing  through midlife on the expectation of reduced income on retirement. But I'm now facing acute poverty for 15 years until I hit the relative luxury of state pension. (Assuming I can find the cash to buy the missing NI years!) I have some assets that are pretty badly managed on account of my being unwell, and in particular a second flat which has £7000pa post-grenfell service charges and so can neither be mortgaged, sold nor rented out until those repairs finally complete-if they ever do! I think I can afford to cover costs from cash savings/investments for maybe 5 years. But after that... Can you speak to the general point of financial planning for people with unconventional life trajectories, particularly disability, and especially what sort of financial information/support resources are available? I'm unsure if you've any specific suggestions for my situation to get me through a decade of sub-living income/cashable assets against potentially sustained high costs? Obvs I love what I can manage to get from the pod and was particularly interested when you've spoken of financial coaching. Cheers! Sam 10:06  Question 2 Hi Pete & Roger Loving the Q&A sessions. Even when topics aren't relevant to me it's still insightful to hear from other people and always educational to listen to your response. I suspect the answer to my question is simple but have yet to see an answer to it anywhere online! I have a cash ISA with T212 from 24/25 tax year and will have a new £20,000 to invest come April (cash ISA's are my preferred vehicle - long story!). Can I just add the new 20 to the existing ISA or do I need to take out a new one? And also, do I benefit from compound interest if I leave it all alone? Regards Maxi 13:06  Question 3 Hello I am loving the podcast and finding out about situations I would not have considered before listening. I don't know if you can help on this one, it's a bit of a tax question on CGT. We are a couple both with dual citizenship (Aus/British) and are planning a sabbatical break from working in 2026 for a minimum of 3 months, but this may turn into years. We have a house purchased in 2003 with no mortgage and want to know our CGT obligations if we were to be non residents when we sell our house? Also is this CGT obligation a tapering obligation like IHT when moving abroad? Kind regards, Sam 19:42  Question 4 Hello gents, Enjoying the podcast as always. Especially the Q&E episodes as I like to test myself to see if I would answer the questions the same as yourselves! My question, I am 20 years old and have recently got my Level 4 diploma with the CISI, and now looking to take the next steps in becoming a planner myself. The obvious route is to stick with the CISI, competing their Level 6 Advanced Financial Planning then the Level 7 Case Study to become CFP. However, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's right! I seen that the CII's set up is completely different, lots a smaller exams, with the outcome being Chartered (not CFP). Am I overthinking this or are there pros and cons for each exam board. Also what is the different between CFP and Chartered? Many thanks, Lewis   27:28  Question 5 Hi Pete and Roger, Firstly, thanks for a great podcast - I've been listening for many years and often catch up with the latest episode whilst on the rowing machine at my local gym! I have a question regarding the pension recycling rules. In Feb 2024, I initiated a DB pension, taking £108,000 lump sum and a yearly amount of £15800. This was to pay off my partners property that we are both about to move into mortgage free. My total contribution was £200k and the remainder of the balance was from my savings. I currently earn £80k salary and have additional rental income from two properties I own of approx 10k net per annum. I am in the process of selling one of my properties and want to use the proceeds (after CG) to maximise my pension contributions  in tax year 25/26. So in total it would be about  £66K contributions (as I have carry over allowance from the past three years). Over the past 3 years my pension contributions on average have been approx. 35k per year.   I'm likely to retire within the next 18 months hence wanting to maximise my contributions during this time. However, my question is, would this higher pension contribution likely trigger the pension recycling rules because of the pension lump sum I took in 2024, even though that amount was used solely to pay off a property at the time? Many thanks and keep up the great work. Phil 37:05  Question 6 Hi Pete and Roger Thank you both for all you do. What do you think about keeping an emergency fund in a money market fund, rather than cash? Many thanks, Rob  

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from August 4 to September 2, 2025.

How do you pass the CII RO exams and achieve the DipPFS? In this episode of Financial Planner Life, host Sam Oakes speaks with Gary Paul (Academy Relationship Manager, St. James's Place Academy), John Smith (Qualifications/Technical Trainer, Redmill Advance) and Rebecca Bidwell, who passed the DipPFS in just 5 months.We answer the top questions aspiring advisers ask:What are the RO exams? → Six modules (RO1–RO6) that make up the CII DipPFS qualification.Which RO exam is hardest? → Most students struggle with RO3 (Personal Taxation).How long does DipPFS take? → Many take 12–18 months, but Rebecca did it in 5 with the right support.Do I need experience? → No. With the Academy and Redmill Advance, even career changers can pass.As a Back to School Special, the St. James's Place Financial Adviser Academy have 100 discount codes to get 50% OFF RO1 learning materials with Redmill Advance. Financial Planner Life listeners can access the codes on a first come first served basis:

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Roberto Tallarita, Assistant Professor of Law, Harvard Law School. Professor Tallarita is the co-author of a recent research paper entitled "The Price of Delaware Corporate Law Reform."

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from June 30 to August 4, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Christine Hurt, Senior Associate Dean for Academic Affairs, the Alan R. Bromberg Centennial Chair in Corporate, Partnership, Business and Securities Law, and Professor of Law at the Southern Methodist University Dedman School of Law. Professor Hurt is the author of a new research paper titled "Texas, Delaware, and the New Controller Primacy."

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from June 3-30, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Professor William J. Moon, the J.B. and M.K. Pritzker Family Foundation Distinguished Visiting Professor of Law, Northwestern Pritzker School of Law & Edward M. Robertson Professor of Law, University of Maryland Carey School of Law. Professor Moon is the author of a recent essay “Havens for Corporate Lawbreaking” that discusses the trend of jurisdictions undercutting the legal compliance obligations of directors and officers.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from May 6 to June 3, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Keith Czerney, Associate Professor and PricewaterhouseCoopers Faculty Scholar at the Robert J. Trulaske, Sr. College of Business at the University of Missouri-Columbia. Professor Czerney is a co-author of a recent research paper entitled An Examination of Critical Audit Matter Disclosure Quality.In related news - In its continuing efforts to improve the quality of information communicated to investors in the audit opinions of public companies, the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board's Investor Advisory Group (IAG) is seeking nominations from the general public, including public companies (management and boards), auditors, financial analysts and investors, for the most decision-useful critical audit matter (CAM) or key audit matter (KAM) disclosures in public companies' audit reports included in the 2024 Form 10-Ks and Form 20-Fs.Nominations received will be reviewed and evaluated by the IAG. The IAG will select what it believes to be the top three decision-useful CAMs or KAMs for 2024 among those nominated. CAMs or KAMs selected will be identified and discussed in an IAG report expected to be issued publicly later this year. For more information, or to submit a nomination, click here.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from April 1 to May 6, 2025.

Today, Kara is so excited to be joined by Scott Chernoff! During his time with Star Wars Insider, Scott interviewed countless Star Wars personalities and experienced the late 90s fandom madness firsthand, from the special editions premiere to the set of Attack of the Clones. Scott was the host of Stage B at Celebration I in Denver, also hosting panels at CII and CIV. With all of these amazing experiences plus his own Star Wars story, this is an interview that will definitely have a part two in the future. In the meantime, listen in and hear all about Scott's life and career with Star Wars!See some pictures and other things referenced in the episode on The Celebration Database and follow Scott on BlueSky.Follow along with Kara and the IALW Podcast on Instagram!Support the project and Kara's zine on Patreon and check out her Celebration Database Blog!If you want to tell YOUR fandom story, send an e-mail to intoalargerworldproject@gmail.com "Beauty Flow" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews James D. Cox, the Brainerd Currie Distinguished Professor of Law at Duke University. Cox is a member of The Shadow SEC, a recently formed independent organization of six current academics that, like the earlier established Federal Reserve Shadow Open Market Committee, is intended to provide, encourage, facilitate and distribute policy discussions and debates relating to the federal securities laws and the SEC. 

Redefining Retirement Income: Insights from Chancery Lane's CEODoug Brodie, CEO of Chancery Lane, a firm specializing in retirement income planning, discusses the evolving landscape of pension schemes. Brody critiques the industry's focus on pension pots rather than sustainable income and offers an outcome-driven approach. We also explore the mechanics of investment trusts, a lesser-known instrument that could bypass complex asset allocation challenges for retirees.LINKSDoug Brodie on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-brodie-income-investment-plannersChancery Lane: https://www.chancerylane.net/Related episodes on Pensions: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbJ1012cgPCAy2NXMIob3W30DXM3rF3OM

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from March 4 to April 1, 2025. This includes two updates to CII's Policies on Corporate Governance (on reincorporation and stealth dual-class stock) and CII's recent advocacy efforts in the Delaware legislature opposing Senate Bill 21.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews renowned British Economist Sir John Kay. Sir John Kay is the author of a new book entitled The Corporation in the Twenty-First Century: Why (Almost) Everything We Are Told About Business Is Wrong.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from February 5 to March 4, 2025, including an in-depth Q&A covering the SEC's new guidance on submitting 13D and 13G filings as it applies to institutional investors.

When hiring new employees, particularly in today's digital age, executives face the daunting challenge of ensuring they bring trustworthy and competent individuals into their organizations. The risk of hiring someone with a questionable background or misrepresented qualifications can lead to significant organizational damage, from financial loss to reputational harm. This is especially critical for female executives who may be more empathetic in their decision-making process, potentially leading them to overlook red flags. One can overcome these challenges by leveraging thorough background checks, trusting one's instincts while staying objective, and utilizing professional resources to ensure safe and effective hiring practices.  Cynthia Hetherington, MLS, MSM, CFE, CII, OSC is the Founder and CEO of Hetherington Group, a consulting, publishing, managed services, and training firm that leads in due diligence, corporate intelligence, and cyber investigations. Throughout her career, she has assisted clients on thousands of cases using online open sources and databases as well as executing boots-on-the-ground operations. She provides specialized training for investigative professionals through the OSINT Academy, and has authored many industry-leading books on conducting cyber investigations, including her latest, OSINT: The Authoritative Guide to Due Diligence: Essential Resources for Critical Business Intelligence, 3rdEdition. In this episode, Cynthia discusses the importance of conducting thorough background checks when hiring, emphasizing the need to use licensed professionals for accurate and comprehensive information. She highlights the role of intuition in the hiring process, advising executives to trust their gut feelings while also considering candidates' qualifications and histories.   What you will learn from this episode: Learn valuable advice on hiring practices, background checks, and how to protect your business and personal interests. Find out practical and actionable tips for navigating the complexities of hiring both in a corporate setting and for household help and understanding state laws. Discover specific strategies and support to help businesswomen succeed and make informed decisions in their professional and personal lives.   “You can trust your gut, but don't follow your heart.” - Cynthia Hetherington   Valuable Free Resources: Have questions? Chat with Cynthia here: The Hetherington Group   Topics Covered: 02:04 - What does this acronym OSINT stand for 02:28 - Her journey from a librarian into the intelligence space 03:02 - Importance of finding individuals who can match the pace and demands of the role rather than just being empathetic to personal circumstances 04:09 - Why choosing a candidate based on likability rather than skills led to a poor hiring decision 05:35 - The need to prioritize your instincts and thorough background checks over empathetic feelings 07:31 - What you need to know about the hiring process and valuable resources to help you find licensed firms doing background checks 11:20 - How to deal with a candidate's past questionable behavior found on social media 13:54 - Opt for practical considerations and intelligence in hiring decisions versus strictly adhering to legal requirements not aligning with real-world risks faced by businesswomen 16:05 - Advice on using professional help for accurate information and reputation management 18:41 - Navigating interstate laws when hiring 20:26 - How the laws of the company's home state are primarily operative when conducting background screenings and hiring 21:34 - Q: What's for free out there and how could we do this ourselves? A: I like to go through and review their LinkedIn profile; it's a social media profile that's open and accessible to everyone.   Key Takeaways: “If you have a sense that the individual you're talking to might present really well, but there's just something that just doesn't feel right, go with that.” - Cynthia Hetherington “At the core of what I do is, we're here to make the world a safer place. We're not going to compromise that because of whatever the statements of legislators who are not having the same issues or concerns that these business women are having.” - Cynthia Hetherington “Let's try to help each other out and empower each other to be the best executives we can by using intelligence. And not straight up jurisprudence to guide us at every turn.” - Cynthia Hetherington   Ways to Connect with Cynthia Hetherington: Website: https://hetheringtongroup.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthiahetherington/   Ways to Connect with Sarah E. Brown: Website: https://www.sarahebrown.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahebrownphd Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrSarahEBrown To speak with her: bookachatwithsarahebrown.com  

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews John W. Barry, Assistant Professor of Finance at Rice University. Professor Barry is the co-author of a recent research paper entitled "Shareholder Voice and Executive Compensation."

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from January 7 to February 5, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Stephen I. Vladeck, the Agnes Williams Sesquicentennial Professor of Federal Courts at Georgetown University Law Center. Professor Vladeck is a leading researcher and expert on "judge shopping," a hotly-debated topic in the federal court system.

This episode features CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney covering the top 10 important events affecting institutional investors from December 3, 2024, to January 7, 2025.

In this episode, CII General Counsel Jeff Mahoney interviews Ally Zimmerman, the Madeline Duncan Rolland Associate Professor of Business Administration at Florida State University. Professor Zimmerman is the co-author of a recent paper entitled "A Tale of Three Perspectives: How GNFs, Annual NAFs, and Triennial NAFs Experience the PCAOB Inspection Deficiency Remediation Process."