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CUJO is a podcast about culture in the age of platforms. Episodes drop every other week, but if you want the full experience, we recommend signing up for a paid subscription. Paid subscribers also get access to our CUJOPLEX Discord and The Weather Report, a monthly episode series where we take stock of where the cultural winds are blowing and tell you what's rained into our brains. Hey guys. Following our 2026 predictions episode (thanks to everyone for all the love), we're back to our regularly scheduled programming. And speaking of things we think everybody should be paying attention to this year, today we're talking about network states.Popularized by Twitter-famous VC philosopher and former Coinbase CTO Balaji Srinivasan, the network state is basically what happens when a bunch of crypto bros and entrepreneurs pool their money, buy land, negotiate regulatory exceptions, and attempt to start a new nation-state around an ideology or practice, like life-extension research or the keto diet. Until recently, network states felt like a fringe libertarian concern—a kind of 2020s remix of seasteading, super-charged by crypto and AI tooling. But especially since finding a receptive ear in the second Trump administration, the movement and its guiding ideas have quietly mutated into an influential ideological force in American politics, both domestically and abroad. To help us get a grip on the whole thing, we brought on fellow culture journo Sam Venis, who's been reporting on it for places like The Guardian, Playboy, The Guardian, The Point, and Mars Review of Books. He takes us inside his travels documenting network-state experiments across the globe, from the medical research enclave of Próspera in Honduras, to a hacker house full of urbit engineers hanging in Bukele's inner circle in El Salvador, to Trump's vision of deregulated “Freedom Cities” on “unused” federal land in the US.We discuss why someone would want to found or join a network state in the first place — i.e., how much of it is ideological, and how much of it is tax evasion — what life is actually like at places like Próspera on the ground, and how the network state movement represents both a mechanism of American imperialism under Trump and a possible blueprint for the US economy's next phase.Sign up for Sam's Substack, Technical PersonaeRead Sam: “Could new countries be started – on the internet?” (The Guardian)“The island of eternal Life” (The Mars Review of Books)“Turbo America” (The Point)“Waiting for the End of the World In El Salvador” (Playboy) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theculturejournalist.substack.com/subscribe
Playboys or Predators? Alexander brothers go on trial for federal sex trafficking. Plus, actress Sydney Sweeney in hot water over lingerie? And we're with opera superstar Dencye Graves as she takes her final bow. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Hour 1: Kanye West started his daughter North's life on a strange note. ‘Avatar' is still that girl at the box office. Sarah thinks the new Chris Pratt movie ‘Mercy' actually looks pretty good. ‘The Smashing Machine' is now available to stream. Rip it up, Flynn! There's a good reason why there's so much traffic. Sometimes parking sucks so much you should just go home. PETA is again asking Groundhog Day supervisors to reconsider using a real Punxsutawney Phil. Relax, he's on vacation 364 days a year. The Hooters prank claims another town. Hour 2: Mariah Carey's range is no joke. It's time for Bad Advice! Today Sarah and Vinnie are taking on Sugar Baby problems. Is this woman's situation a relationship ending proposition or just a great job opportunity? A former flight attendant uses his inside knowledge to steal hundreds of free flights. Flight attendants reveal the passenger behaviors they will immediately judge you for. Goodwill wants you to know, “We are not the dump.” (50:31) Hour 3: Let's talk about the Oscars nominations! Sinners broke an all-time record, but that doesn't mean it will win. The gang takes a stab at predicting the major winners. Was ‘Wicked: For Good' snubbed? Nerd News: NASA reveals just enough about the emergency astronaut evacuation to make us wonder… space babies. Cows are dumb. Let's not talk too much about it, thanks. Stanford is close to a cure for arthritis. Is Chat GPT more creative than humans? The Playboy edition that actually WAS just for the articles. A medal detector victory! And a mystery… (1:34:42) Hour 4: Harry Styles is back, but it doesn't look like he's coming to San Francisco. He wants to stay in New York City with his love, Zoë Kravitz. Def Leppard also has a new song out today! Apple is replacing Siri with a new AI chat bot experience. Good, because Siri is an idiot. Don't touch Vinnie's alarm clock. Is Sarah okay? Plus, an exhilarating game of How Old Is That Guy? (2:16:54)
Let's talk about the Oscars nominations! Sinners broke an all-time record, but that doesn't mean it will win. The gang takes a stab at predicting the major winners. Was ‘Wicked: For Good' snubbed? Nerd News: NASA reveals just enough about the emergency astronaut evacuation to make us wonder… space babies. Cows are dumb. Let's not talk too much about it, thanks. Stanford is close to a cure for arthritis. Is Chat GPT more creative than humans? The Playboy edition that actually WAS just for the articles. A medal detector victory! And a mystery…
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
In this episode of The Healers Café, Manon Bolliger, speaks to Ken Blackman who discusses the dynamics of breakups, highlighting that anxiously attached individuals often initiate them. Blackman advocates for building relationships that provide mutual support, especially during challenging times, to foster long-term happiness and health. For the transcript and full story go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/ken-blackman Highlights from today's episode include: Ken explains Chemistry vs. intimacy: A great relationship needs both spark and the safety to be fully yourself, not constantly "protecting the vibe." Ken explains Healthy breakup: A loving split sounds like "I see you, I get what you need, it's valid—but it's outside my range," with mutual respect, grief, and relief. Manon explains Real freedom: What feels most free is not many partners, but being completely yourself—"weirdness" and all—with one person who truly gets you. ABOUT KEN BLACKMAN: A former Apple engineer turned relationship mindset coach and intimacy educator, Ken Blackman is currently celebrating his 25th year helping couples co-create a thriving, fulfilling life partnership and a gourmet love life. His work has garnered mentions in Business Insider, Playboy, Tim Ferriss's 4-Hour series, Cosmopolitan, and elsewhere. He's a regular featured contributor to The Good Men Project, Better Humans, and his own Medium publication, The Craft of Intimate Coupledom. Core purpose/passion: I think my superpower as a relationship coach is to be a translator and help them see and understand each other. I tend to listen and ask, listen and ask, until I feel like I see the world through one partner's eyes. Then I do the same with the other partner, listen and ask until I see the world through their eyes. Then I help them see each other. Sometimes translation; is just saying to one partner exactly what I heard the other say, but as though I'm speaking to the most important, honorable person in the world, whom I have the highest regard for. – Facebook | Instagram | Medium | Website | BlueSky | Threads ABOUT MANON BOLLIGER, RBHT, FCAH: As a retired Naturopath 1992-2021, I saw an average of 150 patients per week and have helped people ranging from rural farmers in Nova Scotia to stressed out CEOs in Toronto to tri-athletes here in Vancouver. My resolve to educate, empower and engage people to take charge of their own health is evident in my best-selling books: 'What Patients Don't Say if Doctors Don't Ask: The Mindful Patient-Doctor Relationship' and 'A Healer in Every Household: Simple Solutions for Stress'. and What if Your Body is Smarter than You Think? I am the Founder & CEO of The Bowen College Inc. which teaches BowenFirst™ Therapy and holds transformational workshops to achieve these goals. So, when I share with you that LISTENing to Your body is a game changer in the healing process, I am speaking from expertise and direct experience". Mission: A Healer in Every Household! For more great information to go to her weekly blog: http://bowencollege.com/blog. For tips on health & healing go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/tips Follow: Manon Bolliger website | Linktr.ee | Rumble | Gettr | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn | Follow: Bowen College Inc. | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | Twitter | Rumble | Locals ABOUT THE HEALERS CAFE: Manon's show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives. Subscribe and review on your favourite platform: iTunes | Google Play | Spotify | Libsyn | iHeartRadio | Gaana | The Healers Cafe | Radio.com | Medioq | Audacy | Follow The Healers Café on FB: https://www.facebook.com/thehealerscafe Remember to subscribe if you like our videos. Click the bell if you want to be one of the first people notified of a new release. * De-Registered, revoked & retired naturopathic physician after 30 years of practice in healthcare. Now resourceful & resolved to share with you all the tools to take care of your health & vitality!
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloud
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Send us a text*** TRIGGER WARNING *** Domestic abuse and sexual abuse are mentioned in this episode.My guest on the podcast today is Melanie Hamlett, a comedian, journalist, public speaker, and storyteller based in France. She's written dozens of articles for publications like Harper's Bazaar, The Washington Post, Glamour, The Daily Beast, Slate, Cosmo, The Guardian, Playboy, and The Huffington Post. Her viral article for Harper's Bazaar called ‘Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden' has been referenced in dozens of podcasts, books, and publications including GQ, The New Yorker, Oprah, and Slate, and was also the inspiration for the sketch Man Park on Saturday Night Live, according to Vanity Fair. I came across Melanie on social media, and it's her TikTok and YouTube pages where she's doing most of her storytelling, culture criticism, and journalistic work these days — and she is HILARIOUS. She is a real force of nature, and you will hear that loud and clear in this conversation, so buckle up and be prepared for more swearing than usual. Melanie herself is actually married to a Frenchman — hence she lives in France — but she has very strong views about men, the patriarchy, and how women have been conditioned to essentially abandon themselves for the sake of romantic relationships. She is childfree. In our conversation, we delve into Melanie's past as an outdoor guide, her experiences in male-dominated environments, and her viral article 'Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden.' We discuss societal issues, the impact of patriarchy, and the importance of fostering genuine communities and dating oneself. We also talk about Scott Galloway who Melanie is not a fan of, the need for women to centre their own well-being and build strong, supportive networks, and much more.Follow Melanie on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@melhamlett?lang=enFollow Melanie on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRW66WXeQGNdV1NtyAIv0CgWatch one of Melanie's reels about Scott Galloway: https:// Support the showBuy my book, SHINY HAPPY SINGLES (UK) / THRIVE SOLO (US & Canada) at: https://www.lucymeggeson.com/book Join my membership community for single women, Thrive Solo: https://www.lucymeggeson.com/thrivesolo Download my FREE PDF 'Top 10 Comebacks for the MostAnnoying Questions Single Women Get Asked' Go to: https://www.lucymeggeson.com/comebacks Check out my YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@thrivesolowithlucymeggeson Join my private Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1870817913309222/?ref=share Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thrivesolowithlucymeggeson/ Email me: lucy@lucymeggeson.com And thank you so much for listening!
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
We start the US charts for August 1965. Dean Martin sings, the Kingsmen are reading Playboy, Marianne Faithull (and Kit O'Toole) are enjoying some summer nights despite the fact Barbara Mason is a sad, sad girl. #madeonzencastr. Support this podcast at the $6/month level on patreon to get extra content! Also, Create your own podcast today! #madeonzencastr
Thirty years ago, we never imagined we'd be navigating conversations about gender identity and sexuality with our children, but here we are. In this powerful conversation, Dannah Gresh from Pure Freedom Ministries shares biblical wisdom and practical tools to help you confidently guide your kids through today's confusing culture.In this episode, you'll discover:✅Three key Bible passages every child needs to understand about their body and identity before the world tells them lies✅How to have age-appropriate conversations about gender and sexuality without robbing your children of their innocence✅The critical difference between accepting and affirming when someone you love is walking through gender confusion✅Why your child's maleness or femaleness is directly connected to reflecting God's image in the world✅Practical strategies for responding with both truth and compassion when your kids encounter gender ideology at school or onlineReady to equip yourself with biblical truth? Grab the resources Dannah mentions in this episode to start these important conversations with confidence.Get your FREE Basic Pass to Life Skills Leadership Summit 2026 to give you confidence that your kids will be ready for adult life: https://HowToHomeschoolMyChild.com/lsls26Resources Mentioned:It's Great to Be a GirlLies Girls BelieveLies Girls Believe Mom's GuideLies Young Women BelieveLies Women BelieveIt's Great to Be a BoyLies Boys BelieveLies Men BelieveDannah Gresh is the founder of True Girl, a ministry dedicated to providing tools to help moms and grandmas disciple their 7–12-year-old girls. She is the co-host of Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth's Revive Our Hearts podcast and Revive Our Hearts Weekend. She has authored over twenty-eight books, including a Bible study for adult women based on the book of Habakkuk. Dannah and her husband, Bob, have just released a new book and limited-series podcast called Happily Even After which tells their marriage redemption story. They live on a hobby farm in central Pennsylvania.Show Notes: Introduction: A Topic We Never Imagined FacingKerry: Well hey everyone, Kerry back here with Life Skills Leadership Summit. Today I'm excited—not because of the topic, because it's a really difficult topic on sexuality and gender—but Dannah Gresh, I've just gotten to know her from a distance through podcasts and Revive Our Hearts and reading one of her books as well. But I do know that she has got a lot to say on this issue. So Dannah, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.Dannah: Oh, I am so honored and delighted. Thank you for having me.Kerry: So before we get started, let me just pray for us and we'll let God guide this conversation.Father in Heaven, thank you. Thank you for today. Thank you for Zoom. Thank you that we can have a conversation and we can share it with many, many people. We thank you that you are sovereign, that you're the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and we can rest in that no matter what's going on around us. And there's a lot of mess going on around us, but we can have our hope in Jesus.We just thank you for Jesus and the bond that we have in Him through the blood that He shed for us. I thank you for Dannah being here. I pray that the things that you want said will be spoken through this conversation, that you will be glorified, and that the ones that are listening, you will just really touch their hearts and show them what types of practical steps or spending more time in the Word—whatever you want them to do—and just to be led by the Holy Spirit. We pray all these things in Jesus' powerful name, amen.Dannah: Amen.About Pure Freedom Ministries and PartnershipKerry: Okay, for those of you that don't know, Dannah has Pure Freedom Ministries and this has two parts: True Girl and Born to Be Brave. By the time y'all listen to this, you probably already heard one of my kickoffs because we do one on Sunday night before the whole week and I'll explain it.But they are our organization that we are supporting through this Summit. So we'll take the profits that we make on anyone that upgrades from free to VIP. If you upgrade to VIP, 5% of our profits will go to this organization. And then some of our speakers—you've probably heard about the ones that have chosen to—if they decide to donate 5% of their commissions, then I will match that 5% as well.So hopefully, you know, that will be just a little way that y'all can support what Dannah and her team are doing. So I just want to make sure everyone understands that before we get going.Dannah: What a blessing. Thank you so much.Dannah's Story: From Teenager to Ministry LeaderKerry: Well, let's before we start this topic, can you just tell people a little bit about yourself?Dannah: Sure. Well, I love Jesus first and foremost, and He is the best part of everything about my life. I came to know Him when I was a really little girl through Child Evangelism Fellowship five-day clubs. I just love Child Evangelism Fellowship to this day because I remember that moment when I surrendered my heart and my life to Jesus. So precious.But fast forward—at the age of 15, I was a teacher for Child Evangelism Fellowship. I was teaching Sunday school in my church to three-year-olds, and I loved the Lord like crazy. But I was in a Christian dating relationship and was blindsided by sexual temptation.I just thought that was not possible in my life because I loved the Lord so much. And it became this great shame and this great heartache of my life until I was about 26. I just really understood that even though it had been so long since I'd experienced that sin and chosen that sin, I hadn't really received the redemption and the freedom that Christ died to give me.When I did, my life changed. And I had to get out my megaphone—my proverbial megaphone—and tell teenage girls. And then as I was doing that, ministry just kind of exploded.I was praying, "Lord, let me graduate to college girls and adult women." And the Lord said, "What about my little women? What about my 10-year-olds and what about my 9-year-olds and what about my 8-year-olds?"I was like, "Lord, that's really great. Somebody needs to do children's ministry, but what about me graduating from high school girls to the older women?" And He was persistent. The Lord just kept opening doors.Before we knew it, we really are one of the largest ministries that takes biblical truth to 8 to 12-year-old girls. And now we have boys—we just added them in the last few years—through live events, box subscriptions, Bible studies, online Bible studies, at-home Bible studies with mom. We want to put mom in the driver's seat. We believe that's what God's Word says—that mom and dad belong in the driver's seat of a child's moral development.Now we fast forward to this year. We live in a time and a day and age when the government and a lot of different political entities believe that parents aren't equipped to make moral decisions about their children. Well, we still believe they are.And now I understand why the Lord has put us in this critical position. One of the things we've done really well through the years is take whatever the difficult issues of the day are—when we started, that was AIDS—and we look at it through a biblical lens.Today, that biblical lens that we look through, we're looking at the issue mostly of gender and identity. And when you think about how do we talk to an 8-year-old about that biblically without robbing them of their innocence, and also just the depression and anxiety these kids are at the tip of the spear...Teens have long been at the tip of the spear, but the enemy has moved the line backward. And now it's those 8 to 12-year-olds that really are having to grapple with things that their little hearts and minds aren't ready for. But we know how to do that in a way that's safe and biblical and most importantly keeps mom and dad in the driver's seat.The Trends We're Seeing in Gender IdentityKerry: That is so good. And I know I'm on y'all's True Girl mailing list, and so they have things and I have downloaded a few things just to find out exactly what they are. I'm giving my daughter some of y'all's books as well. I think it's the Lies Young Girls Believe, something like that. I'm not quite sure what it was.But I do have to tell you, all of a sudden I have one more connection with you because I grew up with Child Evangelism Fellowship and I became a believer at a Good News Club. I started, went to their CEF training as a teenager, and then we did the five-day clubs in Houston. So I was like, oh wow, that's so interesting. Small world.Dannah: They are a fruitful ministry. Look at us—we're passing, we're the fruit, we're passing on fruit. We're the fruit of their fruit.Kerry: My parents, they're in their 70s and 80s, and a while back they would lead Good News Clubs in the public school for like five years. They're still going on with it and all. So I love it. It does work.So okay, so we are in a just a strange time. And if you had asked us 30 years ago, we'd be going, "No way, we wouldn't be dealing with these issues." So what kind of trends are you seeing right now when it comes to gender identity and sexuality?Dannah: Well, you know, I would say heterosexual is definitely not in style. And what we see is a lot of teens claiming to be pansexual, where they're just willing to erase anything that has a baseline of truth to it and embrace everything. Basically, is what pansexuality is.A lot of teens in terms of gender are saying they're non-binary. That's just what's in style right now. And you might say, "Well, but there really is a problem. There are some kids that definitely struggle with gender dysphoria."Absolutely, that's true. Historically, we've known for decades that children—a very, very small percentage of them—are born with things like Klinefelter syndrome, fragile X syndrome. These are syndromes like Down syndrome where there are chromosomal abnormalities in that child's body.And the parents and the physicians have to work together to decide, how are we going to raise this child? Most cases, they can take a blood test and they can determine this child is clearly male or clearly female. But we have some issues that we're going to have to deal with because of these syndromes.But in most cases, they can really figure out what's happening there. And so that's the good news. But I think it's an important thing for us that we have to be compassionate because for some people that you meet on the street that you're not quite sure—are they male or female?—that's not a choice. It was something that they were born with. That's very difficult and painful. So we have to be careful.But on the other end of the spectrum, what we're seeing right now is—well, let me explain it this way. In about the year 2011, there was a shift from transgenderism being predominantly a male problem to now, it is today predominantly female. You see more teenage females transitioning than males.So the intellectually honest sociologists will say, "What happened to make that really dramatic shift happen?"And I think probably the person that's been bravest about it is a woman named Abigail Shrier. She's a journalist, not a believer as far as I know, conservative though, and yet very intellectually honest. Some parents kept writing to her and saying, "We need somebody to research this."And she brought together some of the bravest sociologists, some of the bravest intellectually honest ones. And what they found was clusters of girls transitioning. So in other words, a school district or a school or a city was seeing a lot of girls transitioning, and there were pops of this all over the United States.Now if this were a more intellectually honest occurrence, you would have seen it happening more evenly over the culture. But that's not the case. What's happening is cluster contagion. And that's what we're calling it now, which basically is peer pressure causing girls to say, "I don't feel comfortable in my body."Now let me remind you, there aren't very many of us that felt super comfortable in our body in seventh grade. But we weren't having somebody sit there next to us and telling us that might be because you're not really a girl.So I guess what we're seeing is a lot of confusion. Majority of what we're seeing is mass confusion that we need to prepare our children for and that we need to speak into truthfully. But we can't forget the compassion because there's a sliver of people struggling right now where this really is a deeply painful thing and not something that they chose.Why This Topic Is Critical Right NowKerry: That is something. So I mean, to me it seems pretty obvious, but why do you think this topic is so important right now?Dannah: Well, it's—let me say, take that from two angles. One reason it's important is because your children are being lied to, and we need to speak truth into their hearts and into their minds. We have to put so much truth into them that there's not room for the world's lies.When they see or hear a counterfeit, they immediately know, "That's not what I learned from God's Word. That's not what I learned from my parents whom I trust to be true." And they come to you and they say, "Hey, I just heard this." And you help—might not know the answers, but you help them figure out.But here's why I think it's really important, and this is why it's been important since the beginning of time. In Genesis 1:26 and 27-28, in that chapter we see God saying that He's made us in His image. And then He could have listed almost anything about us that would have made us like Him—our language proficiency, our ability to compose sonnets, our creativity, the fact that we would figure out how to defy gravity and fly to the moon. All these things about us are so God-like. Our even our emotions—animals are emotive, but not to the degree that we are.And yet God says one thing: "In the image of God He created them, male and female He created them."Our maleness and our femaleness is a distinct part of representing the image of God on this lost world. That's why it matters more than anything. And that's what our children need to know more than anything.How Parents Can Communicate God's TruthKerry: That is so good. I mean, it really is. We need to—and I love what y'all do is always going back to the Bible, you know. And this is a Christian conference. There's plenty of things out there for parents, but we want to make sure we're always going back to the Bible.So what are some things that parents could do? Like you want them to—one of the things that I know I've heard you say many times, we need to speak truth to our soul, but first we have to teach our kids what the truth is. How can parents communicate God's truth in regards to gender and sexuality and identity?Dannah: Well, I obviously encourage them to get them in the Word and some of these key passages that talk about our bodies. And I basically have three key passages that I think our kids need to study about this. I write about them in It's Great to Be a Girl. My husband and one of his co-authors writes about them in It's Great to Be a Guy. That's for kids aged 8 to 12, somewhere in that range.First one is in the book of 1 Corinthians. It says that our bodies exist to glorify God. That the purpose of our body is to glorify God. You know, we get really sidetracked and we think our bodies are for us to feel good, for us to feel pleasure, for us to look good and be this just vision of beauty or handsomeness, whatever it is.Our bodies were created to glorify God. That's why they exist—to showcase Him, to give honor to Him. That's why we dress carefully and tastefully and modestly. That's why we use language that's becoming and careful. That's why we don't get into the dark.I'm always concerned when we get into really dark-looking countenance and clothings and styles because Jesus is light and He is love and He is joy, and we want our countenance to reflect that. But my body doesn't exist for Dannah. My body exists for God.Then the second thing is the one I just mentioned earlier: Genesis 1:26 and 27, that the purpose of my body—how I glorify God—is as a female or male image-bearer. Because glorifying Him—I like to say that the moon glorifies the sun, okay? The moon doesn't have any light of its own, but it reflects the light of the sun, and that's why we have a full moon. They're so beautiful.Well, in the same way, we have to look like God. That's what glorifying Him means. And Genesis 1:26-27 says we do that best in the defined roles, the binary roles of maleness and femaleness. So they matter. They're important.And then the other verse that I think is really important is in Romans 12:1 and 2. It says, "I beg you brothers, by the mercy of God, that you present your body as a living sacrifice."So when my body, which was created to glorify God, doesn't feel like glorifying God as a female image-bearer of God, it becomes a sacrifice to God because I choose to live sacrificially according to the purpose of my body as a female image-bearer.Now I don't know that those are the only passages that your children need to get into, but those are three of the big ones that they need to memorize, dissect, be familiar with, understand. And that's going to give them more than studying all the counterfeits. That's going to give them the fuel they need for the conversations that are going to come up in their lives at one point or another.Age-Appropriate Conversations About TruthKerry: That's so good. Because we don't know what's going to happen in 20 years, you know, and what things they're going to need to know.When you think about even these three passages or talking about truth at different ages, because you've talked about 8 to 12 and then we've got teenagers, would you approach them differently or do you have any suggestions about that?Dannah: Well, with teens, of course, I'm going to be a lot more forthright. Although more and more—we just had a mom communicate with us that her child is attending a private school, not a Christian school but a private school. And just this year, the daughter came home and said, "Hey, we have Teacher X teaching at our school." And I'm not going to say the name. And it's not Mr. X or Mrs. X, it's Teacher X.And of course this mom said, "Well, do you know if Teacher X is male or female?" And she kind of said, "Well, this is what I think, but that's probably—they're trying not to look that way." So there's obviously some gender confusion there.What was really interesting is that when they have a student teacher, this parent had previously gotten a letter that said, "This is the teacher, this is what you need to know about them, I want to introduce them to you, they'll be starting on this date, they'll be ending on this date." In this case, that didn't happen.So that child is in about fifth grade. So we're not—and I've heard in my own school district of kindergarteners who are being told, "You get to pick your pronoun in my class. Maybe you weren't allowed that opportunity at home, but in my class you get to choose what you are, who you are."And so more and more we are having to have more of a conversation that we want, especially if we've chosen for our children not to be homeschooled or not to be in a space where their teaching is governed by truth. And that's not you, but it may be your friends, and it may be someone you're conversing with or having coffee with, you know, needs to know—hey, some crazy stuff is happening in some of these schools.And they don't believe it until it hits them. And then that's how this mom was. She's like, "I heard about it in California and I heard about it in this state and that state, but my state?" Yes, your state.So I think it's really important that we let them drive the questions though. So at high school we maybe are being, you know, we're talking about transgenderism, we're talking about all the different language that is used—the LGBTQ+, non-binary, binary, pansexuality.Mom, dad, you got to do some vocabulary work on this one. You've got to know the words, and that's going to help build your credibility. If you have a child who has been exposed, if you don't know a word, just say, "I'm not really sure what pansexuality is. Let's look it up and learn together, and then we're going to go to God's Word and figure out what He says about it."But when you're under, I would say 12 years old, I would just stick to God's truth. And what you're going to find, and what we have found as we have taken moms and daughters through It's Great to Be a Girl online Bible study or It's Great to Be a Guy online Bible study, is that studying it in the Bible and having mom and dad sitting there talking with you about it brings up the questions.They'll say, "I heard that so-and-so down the street has two dads," or "I heard that this friend at church has a brother who's becoming a sister." And you have the opportunity then to talk to them about that stuff.But I really like to let them drive that rather than us introducing things. And there's such a fine line there. And what I want to say is we don't—we have to be very careful about being afraid of the topic of sex because God isn't. He's not afraid of the topic, and we don't need to be afraid of it.But there are developmental phases where our children are more ready for some of these things than others. And if you can delay some of these conversations until they are developmentally ready, I think that's wise.The Importance of Reclaiming Biblical SexualityKerry: I think that's really good. And I appreciate you saying that we need to talk to them about sexuality more than just what sex is or how do we have kids, that type of thing. Because I know I heard on one of y'all's podcasts, you know, if we don't reclaim the sexuality and what's going on, the world is going to take over, which is what it's doing. And the church really does need to understand it. And if moms and dads don't, they need to do some research and stuff.Dannah: Well, and Ephesians 5:31 and 32 says, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." And then it's almost like the Apostle Paul has ADHD or something. Because it's like he changes the subject. He says, "I'm really talking about Christ and the church."And this verse probably more than any other in Scripture tells us that marriage is meant to be a picture of the love Christ has for His bride, the church. But you can see that taught from Genesis to Revelation. It's a very important picture in the body of Christ.And if we do not wake up to really protect and defend that picture, we're going to wake up one day to see the gospel completely marginalized—not just marriage, but the gospel.And I guess my question for all of us is: if sex and marriage really does represent the love of Christ, the gospel, how motivated is Satan to see that picture destroyed in our lives, in the lives of our children? We have to be vigilant. We have to be informed. And we have to be so full of grace for those moments when we mess up or our kids mess up.Navigating With Grace and CompassionKerry: Yeah. And I think you just said that—I was coughing—grace and patience. Because you're talking about having compassion for these people that are really dealing with issues. And I think sometimes the church gets so, "Oh my goodness, look at them, they have children that are homosexuals or whatever."And yet we—I mean, no, we don't tolerate—I mean there's a blend between tolerating, but we also need to show grace at times because the compassion of God is what draws people back. The kindness and stuff. Would you have anything to say about sort of where you draw the line? And not that we want to judge people, but we do want to come alongside.So we've got moms here that want to help with their kids, but then they may have people in their family or in their church or something. What are maybe some practical things that they could do to handle these situations?Dannah: Well, some practical things are teaching our kids grace. Teaching them a gracious response.Bob and I, my husband and I, discipled a young man for many years who is non-binary now. Young adult man. And we still will have lunch with him. He doesn't live locally, but when he's coming through, he still wants to visit with us and talk with us.I got a birthday text from him that said, "You're like my second mom," because we have blessed him with our love and our presence, which is genuine. It's not fake. We adore him. He is easy to talk to, intelligent. We had so many high hopes for how he would—and still do—influence people for Christ.But we do not—we accept, but we do not affirm. We accept, but we do not affirm.So he knows—one of the last big conversations we had about his journey into homosexuality and a non-binary lifestyle was very pointed where my husband said, "I believe you've been set apart, and I believe that you have different desires, and that you have to obey the Lord with Romans 12:1 and 2. You need to sacrifice your desires for the purpose of your body glorifying Christ."And it was a very pointed conversation. And we haven't talked about that since then, but he knows where we stand.So we're honest, you know. One of the things that's really a challenge right now is the question of pronouns, right? Do we use the pronouns or do we not use the pronouns?And with this individual, I avoid using pronouns because the pronouns he wants are "they" and "them." I will not do that because God's Word commands me not to lie, and it's not truthful. However, I'm not going to rub salt in a wound of all the struggles that he's walking through.So I do my best to navigate through just not using either his new name that he wants or the pronouns. He knows that's what I'm doing.I know another woman who—she did transition for nine years. She had her breasts cut off, she had hormones, she was bearded, she was talking like a guy, she lived as Jake for nine years. Her name was Laura.Her mom stayed on her knees, stayed in a prodigal prayer group. And when it came to the name—she wanted to be called Jake—her mom said, "I can't call you that, but I know it's going to offend you. Can I call you honey? I'll do that."And it was a compromise they made together. So you see, accepting but not affirming is a really important line we have to make.Because this is the question that Rosaria Butterfield asked in a recent book that she's written. I believe the title is Five Lies of Our Post-Christian Culture. But she says, "Is your church, is your home, is your family a safe place for someone to repent of their sin of homosexuality or gender—" I'm not going to call it confusion, but rebellion. Okay?Because gender confusion, I would say, is probably going back to some of those syndromes I'm talking about, right? You're going to feel some confusion when you're not quite sure how your body is showing up, right?But gender rebellion, I would say, is what my friend Laura went through. She knew she was a girl, but she wanted to stick it to her mom and stick it to God. And she did for nine years. And then the Lord got a hold of her heart.But partly, I think the Lord got a hold of her heart because her mom never accepted Jake, never accepted the lie, never used the pronouns. And yet she still loved and accepted the child.Kerry: Fine line.Dannah: So good.The Reality of Dealing With These IssuesKerry: Yeah, we've got to love. And I, for one, I mean, these aren't just teenagers. You know, I had friends whose kids have transitioned, and the parents, the mom and the dad don't even agree on the pronoun issue, you know. And that's a really hard thing.What I really like about what you just said is she communicated with her daughter and they talked about it instead of just doing this and then, you know, that child getting angry and then blocking them out of your life kind of thing. And so communication just seems to be vital as well, even if they're going down that path.Dannah: Yeah, so communication before and after is key. And it's not easy. It's hard. And there'll be tears on both sides and disagreements. But you want to walk through it in such a way that you maintain a place where they know what the truth is and they know where to come when they finally do understand what the truth is.Kerry: Yeah, I always tell—because I host a prodigal prayer group too—and the two things I'm always like, we can always love and we can always pray. You know, we cannot change them, but we can pray and we can never give up. You know, God's not giving up on us, so we shouldn't be giving up on our kids or other family.Dannah: Yeah. And you know, when it comes to praying, I find that people that I love that aren't walking with the Lord—they might be offended if I start asking them, "Who do you think Jesus is?" But they're never offended when I say, "How can I pray for you?"They might define it differently, but it keeps that door open of them knowing, "I care about your spirit. I care about your spiritual life. I care about you." They know that praying is important to me.And when I just say, "How can I pray for you?" their hearts often just flood open with things that they want prayer for.How Did We Get Here?Kerry: That's a really good point too. Okay, let's—how have we talked about all this? How do we get where we are today? Because, you know, like we said, 30 years ago we would have never thought—yeah, you know, there was homosexuality back then, but that was pretty much it. How do we get here?Dannah: Oh, I think that it's how we got here is, you know, we were an Augustinian worldview. The United States of America had this worldview that was predominantly established by Augustine, St. Augustine of Hippo. He believed that love was the highest good in humanity and that that love should be reflective of the truth of the Bible.And that really was the worldview of our culture. And that meant that there was one man and one woman marriage.And then when it really started to break down, honestly, was Freud, who felt that the highest good was sex. He thought that that was the highest need in a human body. And so the conversation started to change as Freud, who did bring us some decent diagnostic tools in terms of understanding and being more aware of our emotions and our mental health—but psychology doesn't do anything, really, if you look at the stats of recovery from psychological methods. Hardly anything outside of Jesus.I mean, single-digit recovery. In my mind, if I'm having some mental health problems, I don't want to go to a place that can give me a single-digit percentage chance of getting better.But then enter Alfred Kinsey. Alfred Kinsey came into the scene, and he was a very unwell man emotionally and mentally. And so he was really excited about the things that Freud taught and believed that he could prove that not only was his theory correct—that our highest need was sex—but that most of the sexual things that these prudish Americans thought were, quote-unquote, sinful were actually very normal behavior. Things like homosexuality and even pedophilia.And he said, "I'm going to prove that those are okay." So he did the Human Sexuality Volume 1 and Volume 2 reports. And his research was really horrific. He hired pedophiles who had been jailed for pedophilia to conduct experiments on children.And it was really child sexual abuse that was recorded in those volumes. But nobody talked about that. Nobody said who did the research and how did you get it done. At that time, it just became the playbook for the sexual revolution of the '60s.But they said, "Look, look, we do want sex. We do need sex." And then the sexual revolution—during that time, a virgin in college named Hugh Hefner read those volumes that Kinsey wrote and said—and this is a quote—"I'm going to be Kinsey's pamphleteer."And as you know, then he went on to create his pamphlet, which was Playboy, normalizing objectifying women. I'm not going to call it anything other than what it is.And so it was this—it was a lie we all wanted to believe. Not me, not you, but the culture wanted to believe because it justified their sin and their desires instead of controlling them. They could justify those sins and desires.And I think when we had about a 30-year climb to making gay marriage legal, but that was kind of a floodgate moment. You know, I feel like from the night that the White House was covered in rainbow colors until today, it's just been a floodgate of Sodom and Gomorrah-esque sin.And whereas it was this slow, steady climb for decades, now it's just a playground.Signs of Hope and BacklashDannah: Now, I am thankful that we're seeing some—I guess what I would call backlash against some of this. In Canada, this year—last year, rather—we saw the first case where a patient who underwent transgender gender reassignment surgery is suing the physician for what happened to her body.Because she said, "I came to you with a mental health problem, and when I was very mentally unwell, you told me the solution was to cut up my body." And she's suing that doctor.Tavistock, which is a gender assignment clinic in the UK, has been shut down because so many of the doctors and nurses are saying, "You only saw these patients two or three times before you let them self-diagnose that they were gender-confused and began treating them." And the doctors and nurses said, "That's not okay. We didn't adequately find out if they really did have gender dysphoria. We're just letting them self-assign."And that's still happening in the United States. But because Canada and the UK are ahead of us, I'm encouraged that we're going to start to see backlash very soon.So don't stop using the correct pronouns. Don't stop calling girls "she" and "her," and don't stop calling boys "him" and "his." Like, we are not crazy. We just feel crazy because the conversation happening in our culture is a little mad.But we are going to start to see a backlash in the next five to 10 years.Kerry: It sounds depressing, but it is encouraging.Dannah: And our hope is in Jesus, who we know can—always, just like I didn't think the education system could ever get fixed, and then COVID hit. And I was like, "Oh my goodness, look, God can do something when it looks like everything's falling apart."He can do the same thing with the gender and sexuality issues. And—excuse me—and even our hope isn't even in this world. I just have to say that. Like, more and more, as it gets crazier and crazier, it makes me hungrier for heaven and the new heaven and earth that we will know after Jesus' return.And for anybody, you know, who maybe you're listening to this and you're the one that cut up your body, you allowed that to happen—you know, when Jesus returns, the new heaven and the new earth, He's going to perfect you and receive you as He created you and fix everything that this world can't fix. And there is such hope in that.Kerry: That is so good. Thank you so much. And yes, He can. And He redeems ashes to beauty all the time. So amen.So I know y'all have some resources that I think would be helpful. Could you share a little bit about that?Resources to Help FamiliesDannah: Sure. Well, I mentioned It's Great to Be a Girl and It's Great to Be a Guy. Those are two books that we take parents and kids through an online study on, but you could do it at home. You can do it as part of a homeschool curriculum.Another book that I have is Lies Girls Believe and A Mom's Guide to Lies Girls Believe. Those go together because I think this extends beyond gender. It's a battle for truth.And the interesting thing about truth is that we know Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." He was truth. So this whole conversation is an assault on Him.And so that book, and Lies Young Women Believe, introduced teen girls and tween girls to really studying: What is truth? What does it mean? And how do I figure out when I'm believing a lie? And what God's Word says about it, and what is true?So I would say those are really important books. We're working on Lies Young Men Believe, but we also—my friend Aaron Davis just wrote Lies Boys Believe. So good tools.We've had lots of friends tell us they've used them as homeschool curriculum. And I would love to see you explore them. They are great. They really are.Kerry: I have—well, I've done Lies Women Believe. And then I will say, too, for those of you—this probably doesn't pertain to a lot of you—but they have them in Spanish. I used to work in El Salvador and go down there once a month and work with a school down there. And we started with Lies Women Believe, but they had a teen girl Bible study, so then they did the Lies Young Women Believe.I don't know if they've done the girl, but when I was looking at your site, I was like, "Oh, they have Spanish books too." So if y'all are in another country, just know that there are resources for you there as well.Dannah: So wonderful.Closing EncouragementKerry: Well, as we close, is there anything you would like to say just in closing?Dannah: Just I think it's so important right now that we are just so deeply in love with Jesus. It's one thing to know all these things in our head, right? But until it gets here...The reason we have prodigals prodigalizing and the reason we have deconstructors deconstructing is because there was a lot here, but we didn't quite maybe get it here. And so what I'm learning is that I can't push it here in the kids I'm teaching, but I can do what I need to do to sit at the feet of Jesus and minister to Him in worship, in prayer, and opening the Word.I don't want to just know the facts of what I read in my Bible this morning. I want to know that I had an encounter with Jesus.So my prayer for you is not just that you would know the facts about all these hard conversations that we're having to have right now, but that more than anything else, you would be so in love with Jesus that your heart beats to reflect His image.And so I pray that for you, and I pray that for your children too.Kerry: Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks for just taking a little time out of your day to be with us. I really appreciate it.Dannah: Oh, it was so good to be here, Kerry. Thank you. God bless you. I pray that you're so blessed by this conference.Kerry: Very good. Well, I am Kerry Beck with Life Skills Leadership Summit. We'll talk to you next time.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's unpublished memoir The Billionaire's Playboy Club recounts her recruitment into Jeffrey Epstein's world as a 16-year-old working at Mar-a-Lago, where she says Ghislaine Maxwell lured her in with promises of opportunity and travel. The manuscript describes how she became trapped in Epstein's orbit, allegedly forced into sexual encounters with powerful men, including Prince Andrew, and ferried across his properties in New York, Florida, and the Virgin Islands. Giuffre paints a detailed picture of coercion, psychological manipulation, and the disturbing normalization of exploitation within Epstein's high-society circle.In this episode, we begin our journey through that memoir. to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Virgina Giuffre Billionaire's Playboy Club | DocumentCloudBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.
While we're on break, we're diving deep into our Patreon vaults for some highlight film reviews. If you love 80s B-movies that are entirely about explosions, one-liners, and nudity, then you'll love what we're reviewing in this episode! Hard Ticket to Hawaii is a cult classic from 1987 that features a bunch of Playboy models teaming up with some wannabe action stars to take down a drug lord (and a giant mutated snake).Join our Patreon for our bonus episodes! https://www.patreon.com/oldiebutagoodiepodFollow the show!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oldiebutagoodiepod/Facebook: https://fb.me/oldiebutagoodiepodPodcast Platforms: https://linktr.ee/oldiebutagoodiepodGot feedback? Send us an email at oldiebutagoodiepod@gmail.comFollow the hosts!Sandro Falce - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sandrofalce/- Twitter: https://twitter.com/sandrofalce- Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/SandroFalce/- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/SandroFeltChair- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sandrofalceZach Adams - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zach4dams/- Twitter: https://twitter.com/ZackoCaveWizard- Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/zach4dams- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/zackocavewizardWatch our editor, Starkie, on Twitch! https://www.twitch.tv/sstarkieeOldie But A Goodie's theme tune is written and produced by Josh Cake. Check out his work here: https://www.joshcake.com/Check out other shows from our network 'That's Not Canon'! https://thatsnotcanon.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Durante décadas, Hugh Hefner fue vendido como el símbolo de la liberación sexual. Pero detrás de las fiestas de la Mansión Playboy se ocultaba una oscura red de abuso, drogas, chantaje y cámaras ocultas. En este episodio explosivo descubrimos cómo el fundador de Playboy tenía cuentas en Castle Bank, una entidad controlada por la CIA para financiar operaciones secretas con dinero del narcotráfico. Exploramos las conexiones entre la Mansión y depredadores como Bill Cosby y Roman Polanski, las muertes sospechosas que la rodearon, y cómo el escándalo Iran-Contra demuestra que el Estado usó drogas para financiar guerras clandestinas. ¿Fue Playboy una pieza del aparato de inteligencia estadounidense? ¿O simplemente un nido de monstruos protegidos por el poder? Prepárate para descubrir que la verdad es más extraña —y más perturbadora— que cualquier teoría conspirativa. Y además... Ciencia de Vanguardia, con Pablo Fuente. Cuentos Fantásticos: El espejo y la máscara, de Jorge Katz. Escucha el episodio completo en la app de iVoox, o descubre todo el catálogo de iVoox Originals
It's time to bring you the latest mini-series of Playboys Extra from 2025, 6 more plays from around the world to complete our world tour. We also have 8 new Playboys (original Shakespeare series) episodes starting on patreon. Check out booksboys.com for links to our social media, merchandise, music, etc, as well as patreon.com/booksboys for the latest episodes of Playboys Extra, Darkplace Dreamers, Film Fellows, Animation Adventurers and more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This week we look back at the first two episodes of the Batman 1966 show (and how Playboy saved Batman), the latest episode of Fallout, and the creative teams for the upcoming Spider-Man/Superman crossover!https://www.editorsnotecomics.comhttps://www.patreon.com/editorsnotecomicsPop Culture News 5:00Weird TV Facts 18:45Sports Report 21:15Fallout Season 2, Episode 5 28:25Batman '66 34:35Will You Ever Give Up Physical Media? 54:10
Paul Mobley and Ian Spanier have much in common: from starting their respective careers in New York City before relocating to the West Coast, to their knack for forging a human bond with portrait subjects, to an unrelenting drive to generate ambitious commercial assignments while being equally dedicated to complex personal projects. In today's podcast, Paul and Ian compare notes on their photographic journeys from coast to coast, while discussing their shared inspiration for 20th century portrait masters such as Irving Penn, Richard Avedon, and in Ian's case, Harry Benson. A few of the key points covered: Secrets to becoming invaluable as a photo assistant; how no one can ever out hustle a New York photographer; and while great gear is important for reliability, what's more essential is to engage with your subject and shoot for feeling And, when it comes to surviving as an artist amid the latest media challenges, Paul adds a heartening note to the end of our chat: "You know, if we go back to what we started talking about: these pictures are made with our hearts and our minds, AI can never replace that. And if people want to hire us, they really want to know what's inside of us, so for that reason alone, I'm not worried." Guests: Paul Mobley & Ian Spanier Episode Timeline: 3:50: Paul's decision to move from Detroit to New York City after college and his early years as a photo assistant. 7:44: Ian's early photo journey through high school, college, and working as a photo editor in the publishing industry. 10:28: The influence of 20th century master portraitists such as Irving Penn, Richard Avedon, and Harry Benson. 15:28: Comparing the photo industry vibes of New York and Los Angeles. 22:11: The business of being a professional photographer: 10% taking pictures, 90% putting out fires and taking care of business. 28:40: The importance of gear in developing a style—equipment is secondary to what comes out of your heart, your mind, and your eye. 36:44: Episode Break 37:20: Preparation for a portrait shoot, getting the keywords for what a client needs and getting in front of a portrait subject. 43:32: Top challenge—Getting around the gatekeepers to get time with your subject. 49:35: The famous subjects at the top of Paul and Ian's bucket lists. 56:11: Personal projects and what this work lends to Paul and Ian's output. 1:01:44: Staying relevant in today's commercial marketplace, the value of past work, and the influence of hybrid media to getting new jobs. 1:06:38: The question of generative AI in today's creative economy—it's all about adapting, but AI can never replace what's in our hearts and our minds. Guest Bios: Paul Mobley is the quintessential portrait photographer, with a career that bridges high-profile commercial work and deeply human documentary projects. After formal photo training in college and years assisting top image-makers, he developed a clean, direct style rooted in precision and genuine engagement with his subjects. Paul's commercial portfolio includes celebrities, athletes, and major brands, yet his approach remains consistent across both commercial and personal projects: Build trust, find authenticity, and create portraits that capture the soul of his subjects by combining technical clarity with emotional depth. Additionally, he is widely recognized for his long-form documentary books, projects that have taken him across the United States to photograph ordinary people—farmers, centenarians, firefighters, and community heroes—whose stories often go unseen. Paul splits his time between New York and Los Angeles, where he lives with his wife, Suzanne, and their rescued shar-pei, Jessie. In his spare time, he loves traveling, especially to Mexico, sampling tequila; and visiting Michigan to eat his mother's Italian cooking. In March 2026, Paul will be the first photographer ever to be awarded an Honorary Doctorate degree by his alma mater, The College of Creative Studies in Detroit. Website: https://www.paulmobleystudio.com/ Ian Spanier began making photos at age six, with a point-and-shoot camera received from his parents. A photo major in college, he started out in publishing, where he worked as a photo editor for 13 years, but making pictures never left him. He taught himself to shoot with medium and large formats, in addition to learning lighting techniques. These methods did the trick because Ian has since established a long and distinguished client list within editorial, corporate and entertainment industries. He has also published several books, including Playboy, A Guide to Cigars, Arturo Fuente: From 1912, Local Heroes: America's Volunteer Fire Fighters and, most recently, Cigars: A Biography, featuring nearly two decades of his work in the cigar industry. Ian is a brand ambassador for Westcott Lighting, Spider Holster, Tether Tools, ThinkTank, Evoto AI, and several other brands. Additionally, he regularly lectures and creates video content for Canon, B&H Photo, and PP of A. Previously a New York resident, Ian now lives with his family in sunny California, although his work still takes him around the world. Website: https://www.ianspanier.com/ Credits: Host: Derek Fahsbender Senior Creative Producer: Jill Waterman Senior Technical Producer: Mike Weinstein Executive Producer: Richard Stevens
335: Seth Gruber is back for a second time to finish up what we started last year in 2025, which was quite literally the most controversial podcast episode I have done to date, and for good reason. Abortion, both surgical and oral pill abortions, are performed daily across the USA and, sadly, the world, often without any informed consent about what an abortion can do to a woman's health. This information has been suppressed, and the studies, research, and real life stories from mothers have been suppressed. Today we get into who has financial ties to Planned Parenthood, why Big Pharma is pushing the abortion pill that is actually more dangerous than having a surgical abortion, as well as preterm labor complications linked to past abortions, and ultimately why and how women are simply not informed by their doctors and OBGYNs about the deadly complications for the women considering an abortion. Whether you're on the right, the left, or somewhere in the middle, I can guarantee the information in today's episode will shock you, and you will be demanding more truth from your doctors and questioning what we have all been told for decades and the true agenda behind aborting babies despite women's health being at risk. → Episode 286 with Seth Gruber Topics Discussed: → The abortion pill vs. surgical abortion → Breast cancer linked to past abortions → Studies that have been suppressed → Who funds Planned Parenthood → Why the health effects of miscarriages are not the same as those from abortions → When does a human become a human? → Baby parts in our drinking water → Playboy is linked to Planned Parenthood?! → How to save a baby after the abortion pill is taken → Preterm labor As always, if you have any questions for the show please email us at digestthispod@gmail.com. And if you like this show, please share it, rate it, review it and subscribe to it on your favorite podcast app. Sponsored By: → Our Place | Go to https://fromourplace.com/ and use code DIGEST for 10% Check Out Seth Gruber: → Website → YouTube → Instagram → Rumble → The 1916 Project → The Seth Gruber Show Podcast → Events Check Out Bethany: → Bethany's Instagram: @lilsipper → YouTube → Bethany's Website → Discounts & My Favorite Products → My Digestive Support Protein Powder → Gut Reset Book → Get my Newsletters (Friday Finds) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Megan and Jeni dive into Pamela, A Love Story, the deeply vulnerable documentary told in Pamela Anderson's own words. They unpack her childhood, rise to fame, Playboy and Baywatch eras, her whirlwind relationship with Tommy Lee, and the lasting impact of the stolen tape. This episode breaks down why this documentary feels like both a reckoning and a love letter to herself.Follow us on social!Instagram: @whatwerewatchingpod TikTok: @whatwerewatchingpod
Christopher Fryer is the co-author of the books Jack Nicholson: The Early Years; Bruce Dern: Things I Said, but Probably Shouldn't Have, and Crane: Sex, Celebrity, and My Father's Unsolved Murder.Chris's non-fiction work has also appeared in Conde-Nast Traveler, Playboy, and the New York Times.I've read Crane: Sex, Celebrity, and My Father's Unsolved Murder, and have chatted about it once before on StoryBeat with Chris's writing partner, the outstanding author, Robert Crane. I've also read Chris's short story, Hunting License, which is a very entertaining tale about a hunter who doesn't like to kill. You'll need to read it to see how it twists in an unexpected way. Hunting License is the first tale in the wonderful short story collection, Beyond Where the Buses Run, which was edited by another terrific StoryBeat guest, Theresa Griffin Kennedy.
We tried this week, we really did. But life just kept getting in the way. It felt like a week where we could use a little comfort, so please enjoy this snacktastic episode from July 8, 2024. Because sometimes you just have to play the hits. See you next week!Original show description: It's days after what might be our country's last July 4 as the monarchy has apparently descended on us, so what better time to circle back to one of our favorite show topics? Snacks! In particular, what are some of our favorite childhood snacks? Nostalgia + food - that's the TSHE comfort spot. One lesson we've learned, though - never leave Step by Step out of the TGIF discussion!In small talk, Meredith returns from her bouts with several plagues, Hillary talks movies (what's new?), and Ann teaches Rory the value of a tangent. It takes a village to raise a (sweet & strange) child!TSHE RecommendsChappell Roan, in generalConnect with the show!This is your show, too. Feel free to drop us a line or send us a voice memo to let us know what you think. Facebook group: This Show Has EverythingEmail: tsheshow@gmail.com
La fama no perdona errores. Cuando el amor, el poder y el ego se cruzan, el resultado suele ser devastador. En este episodio se conectan historias de figuras públicas marcadas por traiciones, escándalos, abusos y decisiones que afectaron a quienes más decían amar. Ídolos que lo tuvieron todo… y lo perdieron. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Todo era un mito… hasta que hablaron. La mansión más famosa del mundo escondía secretos que tardaron décadas en salir a la luz. Hugh Hefner construyó un imperio que cambió la cultura secsual, pero también creó un sistema del que muchas mujeres no pudieron escapar. Esta es la historia completa que casi nadie quiso contar. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
14-year-old Danielle Bell was still a child when she fell in with a group of men who preyed on teenage girls. Within six months of meeting these men, she disappeared. Danielle still hasn't been found. Danielle was last seen on September 28th, 2001 in Pensacola, Florida. She was reported to be wearing a sky-blue halter top with glitter in the fabric, a blue Tommy Hilfiger jacket, black pants, black dress shoes with a medium heel, a dolphin-shaped ring, a heart-shaped ring, a silver neck chain, diamond earrings, a gold ring set with an emerald and two diamonds, and a gold ring set with a ruby and a garnet. She was carrying a Tommy Hilfiger purse. She has light brown hair, blue eyes, and a scar on her right forearm. Her ears are pierced and navel may be pierced. She has a small, homemade tattoo of a purple Playboy bunny on her pelvic area. She may also go by Dani. If you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Arion Bell, please contact the Escambia County Sheriff's Office at (850)436-9620 Special thanks to Bonnie Bell, Danielle's sister, for granting us permission to cover Bonnie's case and for her guidance and taking the time to be interviewed. Her support is deeply appreciated. Listen Ad Free And Get Access to Exclusive Journal Entries Episodes: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4HEzJSwElA7MkbYYie9Jin Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themurderdiariespod Apple: Hit subscribe/ 1 week free trail available Music Used: Walking with the Dead by Maia Wynne Link: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Maiah_Wynne/Live_at_KBOO_for_A_Popcalypse_11012017 License: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/ Our Links: Link Hub: https://msha.ke/themurderdiaries Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themurderdiariespod/ Edited by: https://www.landispodcastediting.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Prometimos una segunda entrega en el mes de enero dedicada a la serie Hits del Billboard en donde recordamos singles que alcanzaron su puesto más alto en las listas pop de EEUU de hace 60 años. Enero de 1966 fue un mes muy interesante y con muchas nuevas entradas en el Billboard Hot 100 y en el anterior episodio nos dejamos los temas más moviditos y animados para esta segunda remesa.(Foto del podcast; Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels)Playlist;(sintonía) ANDRE WILLIAMS and HIS ORCHESTRA “Rib tip’s (part 1)” (top 94)THE BEACH BOYS “Barbara Ann” (top 2)PAUL REVERE and THE RAIDERS “Just like me” (top 11)THE KNICKERBOCKERS “Lies” (top 20)THE BEATLES “Day tripper” (top 5)THE ANIMALS “It’s my life” (top 23)MITCH RYDER and THE DETROIT WHEELS “Jenny take a ride” (top 10)JACKIE LEE “The duck” (top 14)DINO DESI and BILLY “Please don’t fight it” (top 60)ROY HEAD “Get back” (top 88)BOB DYLAN “Can you please crawl out your window?” (top 58)JOHNNY RIVERS “Under your spell again” (top 35)JACK JONES “Love bug” (top 71)THE C.O.D.’S “Michael” (top 41)SHARPEES “Tired of being lonely” (top 79)GARY LEWIS and THE PLAYBOYS “She’s just my style” (top 3)HEDGEHOPPERS ANONYMOUS “It’s good news week” (top 48)TOM JONES “Thunderball” (top 25)THE VISCOUNTS “Harlem nocturne” (top 39)Escuchar audio
My friend, Ed, thought he had the perfect hiding place, and he told me about it. Now, Ed's not really his name, but it is a true story. The incident happened this way. Some years ago when he was a teenager, and he came from a nice Christian family - nice Christian boy, except for some of his reading material. Now, it was before Internet days but there was a magazine called Playboy. He had a habit of going out and buying Playboy and some other magazines like it, and he hid them in an old, unused icebox where no one ever went. And he was sure no one knew the place. Well, when he went to get his dirty magazines one day, they were gone. But that's only part of it. In their place there was a Bible. He knew his dad had to leave it there. There was never any yelling, his dad never talked to him about it, but he bought no more magazines because of that little switch his dad had made. I'm Ron Hutchcraft and I want to have A Word With You today about "The Royal Switch." Our word for today from the Word of God comes from 2 Corinthians 10, and I'm going to begin reading at verse 3. "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." Now, this talks about weapons that will tear down strongholds. And as you study this passage, it becomes obvious that spiritual strongholds are sinful ways of thinking that, well, maybe they've been part of our personality for a long time. Maybe they're wrong ways of thinking about the opposite sex, about depressing feelings in your life, or about a relationship with someone who's hurt you, maybe it's lust, or depression, or bitterness, or self-pity. But it's got a strong hold on us. And then it goes on to say, "We can take captive every one of those wrong thoughts to the obedience of Christ." Now, until you can master the source of sin, which is your wrong thoughts, that sin will master you. How do you do that? Well, Ephesians 6:17 talks about the spiritual weapon that will work. It says, "Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God." learn a lesson from a friend's wise father. Where there had been dirt in the form of those magazines, he put God's Word. He didn't just remove the dirty; he replaced it with a Bible. Now, if you want to beat sin...if you want to beat those wrong thoughts, then you've got to have two strategies working for you. First, take out the garbage - the garbage thoughts - and don't collect any more. That means turning your eyes away from the magazine rack. It means flipping the channel when something comes on that has no business going into your mental computer. It means not ever clicking again to go to those places on the Internet. It may mean, as it did for some of my friends, of putting a picture of Jesus on their computer, or another man who said, "I can't even afford to have a computer at home. I've got to beat the monster inside." It may mean avoiding negative conversations that fuel the dark side of you; canceling a subscription to a magazine, or a streaming service, or monitoring the music you listen to - whatever it takes to be free of the bondage. Secondly, you have to put the Bible where the dirt has been. You take a Bible bath daily. You dwell on what you read. You write it down in a journal so you remember it. You use it that day so it becomes part of your personality. There's no substitute for memorizing the Word of God. D. L. Moody said it so well, "Think sin - think scripture." I like what someone wrote in my Bible one time, "Either sin will keep you from this book, or this book will keep you from sin." Now you have a weapon that can tear down a stronghold of sin and tame the most sinful of thoughts. "Thy Word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against Thee." Put God's Word in the same hiding place where you've been hiding that sinful stuff. That is the royal switch.
Sie war Profi-Boxerin, strahlte vom Playboy und diesen Monat ihn an: Ihn, der während der Corona-Pandemie mit Comedy das Internet eroberte. Mittlerweile füllt er damit Hallen, ist als Schauspieler gefragt und sitzt beruflich vor Mikrofonen – auch vor unserem. Wir dürfen gespannt sein! Lass uns gerne eine Bewertung da! Feedback, Freundschaftsbriefe & liebe Grüße an: 1plus1@swr3.de. Eine neue Folge gibt es jeden Mittwoch auf SWR3.de, in der ARD Audiothek und überall, wo es Podcasts gibt. Mehr Infos zum Podcast gibt es auf SWR3.de. 1 plus 1 – Freundschaft auf Zeit ist ein Podcast von SWR3. Produktion: Mit Vergnügen. Produktion: Lina Britt Bajorat und Jo Bischofberger Redaktion: Gissi Winkler, Annamaria Meister und Annika Bingger Schnitt & Mix: Sebastian Wellendorf und Maximilian Frisch Sprecher*in: Maximiliane Häcke und in den Teasern Max Richard Leßmann Line Producer: Lisa Golinski und Marc Bürkle Außerdem an diesem Podcast beteiligt: Maxi Stumm und Amelie Kern
Bob Boze Bell has been a friend for over a decade and has provided various features on western titles by L. Ron Hubbard in True West Magazine. His work has appeared in Arizona Highways, Playboy, National Lampoon, the Arizona Republic, and True West magazine. For ten years (2002-2012), he produced a video version of True West Moments, which aired on the Westerns Channel. In this episode, we discuss what makes a Western story different from other genres, along with the role of research in good storytelling. Bob was ahead of the curve in using social media to grow the popularity of True West Magazine, which we also cover. BBB can currently be seen on the series “Gunslingers,” which runs on the American Heroes Channel. Triple B is also the President and executive editor of True West magazine, positions he has held since 1999. He has written a dozen books on Old West characters, including Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, and Wild Bill Hickok, as well as a three-part series (so far) on Classic Gunfights, which appear in True West. Learn more about Bob and True West Magazine at blog.truewestmagazine.com/
In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/ sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/ Link Tree Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo
Tim Durham lives in a 30,000-square-foot Shangri La on the outskirts of Indianapolis, has a $6 million yacht and parties with Playboy models. He claims to have made his fortune as a king of the leveraged buyout, with his company Obsidian Enterprises buying stakes in struggling manufacturing companies, turning them around, and flipping them for big profits. Problem is, the profits that Durham claims to make as a fix-it-and-flip-it king are bogus and he's burning through investor money. (Original television broadcast: 1-22-15) Want to binge watch your Greed? The latest episodes at: https://www.cnbc.com/american-greed/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
In this special short episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins presents a wild and largely forgotten chapter from Bob Cooley’s life—the former Chicago Outfit fixer, gambler, and lawyer whose career straddled the worlds of organized crime, corruption, and courtroom drama. Fresh off a long-form interview with Cooley, Gary pulls out a standalone story that feels almost too strange to be true: Cooley's first real legal case, involving the infamous Chicago martial arts cult figure Count Dante, self-proclaimed “Deadliest Man Alive.” The episode revisits 1970s Chicago, when Count Dante ran multiple dojos across the city and cultivated a fearsome public image. A rivalry with a competing martial arts school—the Green Dragon Dojo—boiled over into violence when Dante and his followers stormed the school armed with medieval-style weapons. The confrontation ended with one man dead, and Dante charged with murder. At the time, Bob Cooley wasn't even officially a lawyer yet—he had just taken the bar exam and was still working as a Chicago police officer. Despite that, Count Dante tracked him down, hired him on the spot, and insisted Cooley would be his attorney. What followed was a surreal two-year relationship involving Chicago nightlife, the Playboy Club and Mansion, mob figures, bar fights, and mounting public attention. When the case finally went to trial, the courtroom devolved into chaos as rival martial artists from both sides reenacted the violence with shouting, threats, and theatrical testimony. The judge, fed up with the spectacle, dismissed the case outright—instantly launching Bob Cooley's reputation as a lawyer who had “beaten” a murder charge. Get Bob Cooley’s book When Corruption Was King. Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here. To purchase one of my books, click here. [0:00] Hey guys, this is a little shorty, uh, part of the long interview I did with Bob Cooley, former Chicago outfit, mob fixer, lawyer, uh, general man about town gambler been in, uh, not in witness protection, but he has been off the radar for several years and in hiding. He recently came back and he got hold of me and he wanted to come on the podcast. And you know, I’ve done one story about him, part of his story. This is another part of his story that’s kind of separate from everything else. It’s about a guy by the name of Count Dante. Now, he was kind of well-known in Chicago at the time back in the 70s. You’ll see some images of him in the show. He liked Bob. He got hold of Bob, and he wanted him to defend him. And Bob wasn’t even out of law school yet, but he wanted him to defend him. He had got in an argument with something called the Green Dragon Dojo. He had a dojo, and he had a whole bunch of dojos around town. [1:04] And he was pretty successful, but he built himself as a deadliest man alive. And this other dojo, they said something bad about him or something. I don’t know exactly how it started. So he took a crew of his and went over to the Green Dragon Dojo and kicked in the front door and went in. they had a big battle and they had maces and spears and, and a huge big fight. And somebody ends up getting killed in this fight. So they charged the count with murder and end up going to trial. Uh, Bob’s got, he’ll talk a little bit about it and, and, and his relationship with the count. They became good friends and he did a lot of stuff with the count over two years. It’s, uh, he didn’t say a lot, but, uh, enough to let you know that he and the count were, were pals for a while. In the end, Bob defends him. He’s just out of law school. It was first case, really first client, I think maybe. And they go to trial and, and both the prosecution puts on all their. [2:03] Prosecution witnesses, which are people of this Green Dragon dojo. And then Bob puts on the count and some of his people. And by the time they get done screaming and yelling and almost replaying this whole fight in the courtroom, the judge is so fed up with the whole thing that he just dismisses the whole case. And of course, when the count, he goes around telling everybody how Bob Cooley helped him beat a murder case. And from then on, you know, that’s the start of his reputation as a lawyer so it’s a it’s a hell of a story i’ll tell you that right now it’s a it’s a heck of a story so i’m in the police station now i’m in in fact after that that’s when i got involved out there with all the mobsters and the rest of them in the 18th district when i wasn’t able to work i was i was working undercover out there with them because it was something to do and uh. [2:58] I’m in the police station. I get a call to come into the police station because I’m in law school. I had just taken the bar. I had just taken the bar, and I knew I passed it. I just did. I never had a problem with anything. I knew that it was just a matter of when I’d be practicing law. I get a call to come into the police station. And when I come in there, there was this silly looking guy with a cape, with one of those, a C-tooth mesh outfit with a cape on and using blue eyes and with what I call the Dante beard. And he says, you’re Bob Foley? Yeah. Yeah. He says, you know, can I talk to you? [3:46] Can I talk to you? And I said, he says, John Began told me that, you know, this is where you’re working now. He said, I’d like to talk to you. He said, I have a little problem. And we go upstairs. His little problem was it was front page news in the papers. And I didn’t notice it or realize it. He was involved. He was charged with murder because he had been involved in that situation up there at the Green Dragon. He had broken in there, and they had killed, and his friend Jim Concevic had gotten killed. But anyhow, he said, and I’m charged with murder. He says, and I want to hire you. I says, you want to hire me? I says, I’m not a lawyer yet. He says to me, I’ve been following you. I’ve been, he says, I’ve noticed, I’ve known who you were for a long time, he said, and I’ve really been anxious to maybe get to, you know, I didn’t know where you were or whatever happened to you, he said, but he said, he said, I knew you at Mount Carmel, he said, you were a wrestler, he said, I was a wrestler too, he said, I was a wrestler too, and I didn’t remember his name, because it was John Kean at the time, I didn’t, I didn’t remember him, you know, for anything. He says, I haven’t passed the bar yet. He says, but John, sure you are, and I’m sure you will. [5:16] And if you don’t pass the bar, I want you to find me somebody. He says, because John tells me, you know all kinds of people. You have a lot of connections, which I did. I had been friendly with a lot of judges and a lot of other people who had known me for a number of years as a policeman and whatever. And when I first started practicing, even before I started practicing, a lot of these were friends of mine at the time. But anyhow, he says, so he gives me $5,000, and he says, and he said to me, if you don’t, he said, I said, well, then here’s what you can do. I said, and he had one of the big-name lawyers in Chicago. I think his name was Conley. He was one of the top lawyers in the city. Just tell him, tell him, continue. You don’t want to, because the case was set for trial. It was supposed to go to trial in a couple of weeks. Oh, yeah. I says, tell him you want to get it continued. Yeah. No way. This is front page. This is front page. Newspaper. Yeah. [6:26] The deadliest man in the world. And it was, you know, when they broke into this place and constipated a spear put through him, the count had pulled the guy’s eye out or whatever. This is at this Green Dragon. It was like a Green Dragon. It was a restaurant. No, no, no. The Green Dragon was a school. It was a Kung Fu school. Oh. In the Kung Fu school, they teach you how to use weapons, maces and swords and daggers. The Count had a number of skulls, but they were skulls just to teach you how to fight with your hands and teach you how to do it, you know, not with weapons, just by your hands. They broke the count. [7:12] The place itself had like one of those real thick wooden doors. I don’t know how he did it, but he broke it off the hinges when he went in there, and he came in with like four people. There were four people and himself, Joey Casello, Konsevic, and I forgot the other two guys’ names. But they broke in there. When they broke in there, one of the guys came at the count with one of those maces, those big ball things that you throw around. And the count took his eye out. He blocked it, took his eye out. Wow. In Konsevic, they threw a spear through him. They first hit him with a, and they put a spear right through him. What was this all about? What was the deal? What had happened was the count, the count got a call from the guy, the guy who owned it. They were competitors. The count had all kinds of these schools. And the other guy from the other school, the count had about six schools all throughout the city. [8:17] The other guy that owned that called the count and called him a pussy. He called him because he was upset because a lot of his students were going to the count. And he calls up there and basically said, you’re nothing but a pussy or something like that. Whatever he said, I don’t know what it was. But the count told him, you motherfucker, I’ll see you. And with six of his guys he went over there and broke in the door during one of the classes, and that’s when this quick fight broke off but when Tonsavik got stabbed he ran about a block away and that’s when he fell over for dead, so anyhow so you got a continuance I assume you got a continuance so then what happened at trial was this one of your early fixes you got put in for this dude. [9:13] Well as i said i’m i’m not even practicing yet i just said i just get them i i had taken the bar already and the results were going to be coming out the results are going to be coming out real soon because it had been about maybe two months or three months since i had taken them and uh and i told them i said well i said if or he said let me too if you can’t if you don’t pass the bar I’d still like you to find me Find me a good lawyer or whatever Because I have, you know, John has all kinds of faith in you And I’ll have all kinds of faith in you, And I won’t. [9:53] And that same night, in fact, the same night, we go out together. He wants to go out. He wants to take me out to dinner over at the Playboy, and he wants to take me over into the mansion and take me to the mansion with him. And why not? You know, so anyhow, we go out that night, the very first night we go out and went to the Playboy Club itself. We had dinner, and we went over to the mansion, and he introduced me to Hugh Hefner and some of those people there. He tells me this is going to be my lawyer, he says, this is going to be my new lawyer. He’s a policeman in that district yeah, I’m there in 18 at the time I’m there in 18 at the time. They all probably thought he was crazy too a lot of people thought he was crazy when he indicated I’m continuing to make a case until I, until i get him but anyhow uh now during that same period he’s calling me all the time he wants to go out with me and and he’s going out we’re getting we’re getting into two or three different fights in different areas he was after you know i think he was looking to start fights with people, and and he’s telling the people now everybody uh. [11:15] I’m one of the toughest people he’s ever met. This is what he’s telling everybody. Here’s the deadliest man alive, and he’s telling these people that. Yeah, be careful what that guy would claim. [11:30] Including, you know, with all these people, with all these people that I’m involved with now, Marco D’Amico and Ricky Borelli and all these mobsters. And I took him one time over to the club and introduced him so he could say hello to these people. [11:53] What happened at trial? Yeah. Oh, I’m not guilty. Okay. It was about maybe about two weeks later when I got the results, I passed the bar. Yeah. Now the lawyers were going to be sworn in, and it was going to be two or three weeks afterwards. My father knew a judge in Springfield. And my father, we took a train ride down to Springfield, and I got sworn in the next day. The judge in Springfield swore me in. So now I’m a lawyer. Now I’m a lawyer. And so I go and I file my appearance right away. Right away on him. The same day, I quit the police department. I resigned. I resigned from the police department. In fact, I had already had four or five other cases already lined up before I even got on. before I even got off the job. And we went to trial. We went to public sites. Now we’ve got a new lawyer. [13:05] A new lawyer. Bob Cooley. Who the hell is he? I mean, a lot of people knew me in the court system because— But not like that. Well, not just—yeah, because I was involved in all kinds of trials. I had made all kinds of arrests, and I knew a lot of these people. Thanks a lot for listening and keep coming back. I keep putting something out all the time. Thanks guys.
Merry Boxing Day one and all!We love you Pamela! LOVE, PAMELA!!Today we go through the first half of Pamela Anderson's beautiful, poetic memoir. We learn about her childhood in rural Canada, her big break into modeling simply by being hot and wearing a LeBatt's shirt, her recruitment by Playboy, and her rocket ship to stardom. She is truly an incredible person and we are enjoying the hell out of this book!See y'all next year!Want even more Page 7? Support us on Patreon! Patreon.com/Page7Podcast Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of Page 7 ad-free.Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Everything about Chris Farley was larger than life. His comedy, his laughs, the risks he took in front of a live studio audience – they were all bigger than anyone else's. So were his appetites. Not just for performance, but for life. He plowed through a plate glass window, 15 stories above downtown Chicago. He was kicked out of college for burning down a girl's house. He disappeared with two Playboy models in Los Angeles and woke up the next morning in Hawaii. He modeled his career on an iconic dead comedian – even following the comic's path, straight to an early grave. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
In our season finale of Bravo, America! Lovett sits down with The Girls Next Door star Holly Madison to discuss the dark side of life in the Playboy mansion on and off screen. Holly opens up about being the main character on the show, but feeling like an object to Hugh Hefner and the Playboy hierarchy. She also speaks about her decision to leave the show and what it's been like to tell her story on her own terms as public sentiment has evolved pre and post #MeToo movement. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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