Podcasts about management association

What's the difference between mass market insurance and personalized insurance coverage? How do you decide on the best fit, and how do you find a broker that's right for you?In this episode of the Easemakers Podcast, Private Risk Management Association CEO & Executive Director Diane Delaney shares how a consultative approach to insurance can help HNW families and individuals protect and preserve their assets. Tune in to hear an overview of today's hard market, Diane's tips for being proactive in preventing the most common losses, why Diane starts conversations by focusing on the passions (like collections), what to look for in a private insurance advisor, and more!

LaborPress Radio's Alex Garrett Talks With Tonia Sorrell-Neal of the Pharmaceutical Care Management Association during the Highspeed Rail Conference Held on September 5th, 2024. Tonia Sorrell-Neal is Senior Director, State Affairs for PCMA and a proud supporter of the Labor Movement! Find out more about PCMA here: https://www.pcmanet.org/about/pcma-staff/tonia-sorrell-neal/. For all things LaborPress, please visit LaborPress.org! 

LaborPress Radio's Alex Garrett Talks With Tonia Sorrell-Neal of the Pharmaceutical Care Management Association during the Highspeed Rail Conference Held on September 5th, 2024. Tonia Sorrell-Neal is Senior Director, State Affairs for PCMA and a proud supporter of the Labor Movement! Find out more about PCMA here: https://www.pcmanet.org/about/pcma-staff/tonia-sorrell-neal/. For all things LaborPress, please visit LaborPress.org! 

Welcome to episode 250 of the Grow Your Law Firm podcast, hosted by Ken Hardison. In this episode, Ken delves into the intricate world of associate attorney compensation.   Ken Hardison is the founder and president of PILMMA (Personal Injury Lawyers Marketing and Management Association). He is an attorney who built not one, but two multi-million-dollar law firms before selling them at age 52.   Ken created PILMMA to share his attorney trade secrets to build a profitable and successful law practice. Rooted in a deep-felt commitment to help lawyers avoid the mistakes and pitfalls Ken encountered while building his own firms – his goal remains the same: “To help as many lawyers as possible create the practice of their dreams. More profits. More Cases. And a law firm that gives you freedom to live the life you want and experience greater success on your own terms."   What you'll learn about in this episode:   1. Compensation Models & Revenue Balance:  - Salary, commission, or hybrid structures can be utilized for associate attorneys.  - Associates should aim to earn no more than 20% of their revenue to maintain a balanced pay structure.   2. Hybrid Plans & Financial Alignment:  - Consider implementing hybrid plans that combine base salaries with outcome-based commissions for attorneys.  - Align attorney pay with the firm's financial health to incentivize revenue growth.   3. Transition to Commission-Based & Testing and Adjustment:  - Transitioning to commission-based pay, including advance draws and performance incentives, can motivate attorneys to increase revenue.  - Continuously test and adjust compensation strategies based on the firm's gross income and attorney performance.   4. Simplified Approach & Financial Benefits:  - Simplify compensation structures by opting for a straight commission with advanced draws, potentially supplemented by a base salary and percentage for litigation attorneys.  - Lawyers and associate lawyers may make more money with commission-based pay structures.   5. Customization & Consultation:  - Tailor compensation strategies to the firm's setup, case nature, and attorney performance for optimal revenue and motivation.  - Seek personalized advice and guidance on unique compensation situations to enhance overall success.   Additional Resources:  https://www.pilmma.org/aiworkshop https://www.pilmma.org/the-mastermind-effect https://www.pilmma.org/resources https://www.pilmma.org/mastermind

Welcome to episode 248 of the Grow Your Law Firm podcast, hosted by Ken Hardison. In this episode, Ken underscores the critical role of vision and leadership in law firms, emphasizing the need for clear core values and a mission statement to drive the firm toward its goals.   Ken Hardison is the founder and president of PILMMA (Personal Injury Lawyers Marketing and Management Association). He is an attorney who built not one, but two multi-million-dollar law firms before selling them at age 52.   Ken created PILMMA to share his attorney trade secrets to build a profitable and successful law practice. Rooted in a deep-felt commitment to help lawyers avoid the mistakes and pitfalls Ken encountered while building his own firms – his goal remains the same: “To help as many lawyers as possible create the practice of their dreams. More profits. More Cases. And a law firm that gives you freedom to live the life you want and experience greater success on your own terms."   What you'll learn about in this episode:   1. Importance of Client Service:  - Make client satisfaction a priority.  - Prioritize client feedback for improvement.   2. Creating a Strong Workplace Culture:  - Develop core values for the firm.  - Foster a culture of excellence and respect.   3. Hiring A-Players:  - Aim to have 60-70% of staff as A-players.  - Recruit individuals who are growth-oriented and effective communicators.   4. Defining Your Firm's Vision:  - Establish a clear vision and mission statement.  - Identify your firm's unique brand and messaging.   5. Leadership Responsibilities:  - Lead by example in promoting client-centric values.  - Surround yourself with top talent in key management roles.   Resources:  https://www.pilmma.org/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PILMMA Instagram: @pilmma LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pilmma/posts/?feedView=all   Additional Resources:    https://www.pilmma.org/aiworkshop https://www.pilmma.org/the-mastermind-effect https://www.pilmma.org/resources https://www.pilmma.org/mastermind New boost

In this episode, Peter is joined by Patricia White on behalf of Asset & Liability Management Association and Kevin Johnson, CEO of CUDA. While you all know Kevin, Patricia is a senior risk professional delivering highly-regarded training courses for treasury practitioners, including liquidity, capital and climate risks.  They chat about the various aspects of balance sheet management, including liquidity, and how credit unions can best manage their way through these issues.   

In Episode 37 of the Town Manager Download, Kevin and Taylor are joined by Kristi Williams, the Town Manager of the Town of Westborough and President of the Massachusetts Municipal Management Association, or triple M-A for short, to discuss the importance of professional development and spotlight the MMMA.

Rainier City Administrator Scott Jorgensen is no fan of the Oregon City/County Management Association (OCCMA). A few years ago, he was the subject of an anonymous ethics complaint without any clear explanation of his alleged offense. About a year later, Jorgensen learned that another city manager had accused him of leaking his listserv comments.  The evidence was a conversation between this city manager and one of his elected officials the city manager had surreptitiously recorded. Jorgensen maintains that he did not leak the listserv comments and even if he did, he vehemently rejects the notion that those comments are not public records since the city manager used his official city email address. Moreover, Jorgensen was disgusted by the fact that the OCCMA ethics committee knew that the conversation was recorded without the consent of the elected official and did nothing about it. Jorgensen has some strong opinions about the OCCMA, the value of his membership not only to himself but the taxpayers, and how other city managers conducted themselves during the pandemic. He is a fascinating person with a very unique background having worked in politics as an official staff to state legislators in the Oregon capital, to being a journalist, an author, and a guitarist in a rock band.  Don't miss this episode where the guest is as unfiltered as the host!   SHOW NOTES: W. Scott Jorgensen's LinkedIn page You can catch his band, Robots Building Robots, on Spotify where you can listen to their album "Dysphoria." Jorgensen has four books he has written listed on Amazon. You can view them here. In the episode, I discussed Ferris, TX city manager Brooks Williams' book "Rising to Serve." If you want to join the American Association of Municipal Executives and becoming a founding member, register today at: https://community.aame.org/. SUBMIT JOB POSTING: Do you have an executive or senior level vacancy in your organization? Use this form/link to submit your job listing in my weekly newsletter for just $100: https://forms.gle/ceMzWqeLwiRFRAGj9 SUPPORT THE PODCAST: Subscribe to my FREE weekly report of city and county manager resignations, terminations, and retirements (RTRs) at this link: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/city-manager-rtrs-job-board-7164683251112992768/ If you would like to support the podcast by making a donation, please use the "Buy Me A Coffee" link. Please rate and review the podcast on Apple or your preferred platform if you enjoy the show. It helps tremendously. But more importantly, refer your friends and peers to podcast through personal conversations and posts on your social media platforms. Joe Turner's LinkedIn Page City Manager Unfiltered YouTube Page - Subscribe Today! Note: Page may contain affiliate links. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.      

With the growing world of healthcare and rapidly changing federal, national, and local regulations, it's a priority that healthcare professionals and facilities stay up-to-date on current industry trends, particularly as it pertains to debt and finances. That is the fundamental purpose of the Healthcare Financial Management Association, or HFMA. In this episode of the podcast "Closing the Books," host Gabrielle Bejarano interviewed Mary Prendergast, the VP of Business Development at IC System, who is also the president of the Virginia-Washington, D.C., Chapter of HFMA. The two talked about what the HFMA does, how the pandemic impacted healthcare costs, and why the HFMA is a beneficial organization to the healthcare industry.Bejarano and Prendergast also discussed:1. Educational opportunities HFMA offers to help healthcare professionals better understand changes in the industry2. Why HFMA is a driving force in shaping healthcare systems today3. How HFMA benefits individual member's careers"What the HFMA does, it really sets an industry standard for healthcare today—really more so in reimbursement and finance. What's going on today in healthcare is very difficult with labor costs, labor shortages, and staffing. What's really hot today is value-based care and price transparency and then technology,” said Prendergast. In addition to helping members keeping up-to-date, applying changing rules and regulations to revenue collection efforts is key. Continues Prendergast “In order to survive and get reimbursed and keep your lights on and a roof over your head, you have to be reimbursed, whether from the patient or the payers, which are the insurance companies. They have to pay you, and it takes a team of experts to make sure that they're coding and getting reimbursed for all of this. They also use, again, a lot of technology partners to make sure they're getting real-time estimation on cost and reimbursement." Mary Prendergast is the VP of Business Development at IC System. For the past two years, she has served as president of the HFMA Virginia-Washington DC Chapter, which has approximately 3,000 members out of the national 90,000. She is also a graduate of Radford University.IC System has over 85 years of experience in medical and dental debt collection, rent recovery and other business collections. For more information, visit https://www.icsystem.com/.

Laura Hagg, Director for Capacity Building and Governance with the International City County Management Association (ICMA), has a career of more than 30 years of experience in the public, private, and non-profit sectors in the United States and internationally in the fields of local governance, economic development, public outreach, communications, and strategic policy efforts. Technical assistance programs are mutually beneficial to the US and the host country. Previously she worked in 16 cities in Ukraine to develop investment videos and encourage foreign investments. Given the massive amount of misinformation and disinformation, one of the greatest challenges is the anti-democratic phenomenon and the attacks on the Rule of Law, free speech and democratic elections, as opposed to an autocratic state that represses these freedoms. The media and educational systems have a responsibility to inform the public as to the opportunities of technical assistance programs, as well as beneficial organizations such as the United Nations.

Hosts ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠James Benham⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rob Galbraith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ are joined by Diane Delaney⁠ from ⁠⁠Private Risk Management Association⁠. Diane shares her expertise and insights on the impact of tech on private agents. Learn tips and tricks on effectively integrating tech into practices to deepen client relationships, drive value-driven service and strengthen capabilities. This Episode is sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠JBKnowledge⁠⁠. Find us on social media! We're on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠; or follow James on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!  Subscribe, rate, and comment. As always, Enjoy the Ride & Geek Out!

Unveiling the PDMA Body of Knowledge with Chad McAllister This episode my guest Chad McAllister introduces us to the Product Development and Management Association's (PDMA) Body of Knowledge (BOK), a valuable yet underappreciated resource in product management. Established in 1976, PDMA has been pivotal in advancing product development and management practices across industries. Chad, a Read More

With the conclusion of Grounds Week, we had the opportunity to talk with the CEO of the Grounds Managment Association, Geoff Webb. We discussed all of the incredible work of the GMA and their advocacy not only for their members but for safe playing surfaces through their work on the development of the framework of proper field management. These frameworks go beyond the pitch and include significant work with leadership, budgeting, work-life balance, etc. Truly some inspirational works of the GMA, like the recent All Female crew working a sold-out women's premier league game at Arsenal. I cannot thank Geoff enough for taking the time! This is an episode you do not want to miss!

Description: In this episode, we delve into the crucial role of HR in empowering managers to excel in their leadership roles. We explore the various facets of HR support, from department alignment to performance management and employee development, providing listeners with actionable insights and practical steps to enhance their management skills and foster a thriving, engaged workforce. Join us as we unlock the secrets of "How HR Can Help Managers Manage"! Resources: MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - DQ Spencer  Guest LinkedIn Profile - DQ Spencer  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:49:14 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. Thanks for joining us today. I'm excited for our conversation today because you get to hear from DQ spencer. DQ is an mra. HR Business partner located in our golden valley, minnesota location. But i know you come with a lot of experience and enthusiasm, especially for our topic today, how our can help managers manage. 00:00:49:16 - 00:01:06:08 Unknown Sounds like a big topic, but I'm excited to kind of break it down. I know we're going to run through a lot of aspects of HR and kind of give our listeners some good action items and stuff so that they can walk away with. So I know this is your first time on the podcast, so I appreciate you come on and excited. 00:01:06:10 - 00:01:26:20 Unknown Awesome. Me too, hi podcasters. I know that you recently spoke at an event on this topic actually. So before we kind of kick things off, I'm just curious to know why is this really an important topic for our listeners? Yeah, I know you're right. I did speak on the event. It was an awesome event. 00:01:26:20 - 00:01:49:13 Unknown A lot of energy and enthusiasm. This is a very important topic because a lot of organizations are still struggling with aspect of the function of HR organizations talking about people and people assets being the most important aspect of the company. But they have a hard time showing that people are, because they're the only nonrenewable asset that organizations have. 00:01:49:15 - 00:02:15:23 Unknown You can't copy the processes, equipment, technology, terminology, but you can't really copy people. So that's why this one is very important. Yeah, that's a great point as we kind of dive in. Now, can you explain how HR really collaborates with managers to emphasize their functional strengths? And kind of part two of that question is how can they use those strengths with their teams to achieve those organizational goals? 00:02:16:00 - 00:02:37:16 Unknown Yeah, So as you know, I don't know. I don't know. I have a football background. I like to use sport terminologies. That's great. Yeah, Yeah. So, I mean, HR is part of a team, right? HR is one of the few functions that truly supports the whole organization. So they have knowledge throughout each function, but they're not be the subject matter expert on that function. 00:02:37:16 - 00:02:50:12 Unknown Right? So to probably collaborate with them, you have to just include that clue to include them in our communication conversation and work to collaborate and build that functional component. 00:02:50:14 - 00:03:19:12 Unknown Speaking of teamwork, we're in a world where teamwork is crucial. So how can HR departments kind of facilitate collaboration among their employees and help managers foster that culture of cooperation and teamwork and collaboration? Yeah. So that collaboration comes from that communication, right? And so a big part of HR is communication, and it's talking to the employees, talking to the supervisors, the managers, the leads. 00:03:19:14 - 00:03:43:09 Unknown It's really getting to know your people, your biggest assets. HR is a science and that you'll understand that. I mean, as HR, you have that strength, you have that background of understanding people behaviors, thought processes, patterns and processes. But as a as a functional leader, let's say, in accounting or finance, your your, your function, your strengths are going to be with that. 00:03:43:11 - 00:04:03:17 Unknown So you can you can collaborate with them and to partner with them, engage them. You have to communicate, you have to get in there, you have to go to them. You have to understand what the culture is and how you can THRIVE that. Those behaviors in and and processes to to and build and engage their culture properly. Absolutely. 00:04:03:17 - 00:04:26:22 Unknown And I know as an HR business partner, you work with a lot of different companies, a lot of different HR department. So do you have any examples or success stories, I would say, of kind of where the HR departments work with teamwork and kind of fostering that collaboration? Yeah, I don't know. Somewhere along the line, HR has gotten such a bad rep as as the good Lord. 00:04:27:01 - 00:04:48:07 Unknown Yep. And I've been in HR for about 16 years. I have my my Bachelors of Science in HR McMaster Science and during my doctorate business in HR. And through that, I've learned a lot. But I've also learned just as much through my experience. For example, I worked with an organization known, as you mentioned previous to me joining in. 00:04:48:09 - 00:05:21:12 Unknown It was a very strong union environment and that created a kind of trifecta. Three headed obstacle course because it was the union, it was the business, the factory manufacturing, and it was HR and that's how they viewed it as three different portions, three different aspects of business. And that was a very tall task. So I really had to go in there and work on our collaboration first, partnering with the organization, the plant manager, building that relationship, and then partnering with building that relationship. 00:05:21:14 - 00:05:41:10 Unknown And I was kind of that liaison that brought it all together, you know, that that organization lacked trust amongst the three. So that was that was very challenging. But just working with them, showing my commitment, my dedication, my, my, my, my processes and my procedures, showing them that, hey, you know this, we're a team. We want the same goal. 00:05:41:14 - 00:06:11:01 Unknown We set different paths to get there. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of our listeners can kind of resonate with that and relate to that story too, and how their organization like that. So that's good advice. But we also know that compliance is also a critical aspect of HR, too. So do you have any insights on how HR can support managers and ensuring their teams adhere to the regulations and policies that always seem to be changing and updating? 00:06:11:03 - 00:06:36:13 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to kind of get off topic, but get back to topic is going to be. So when I first started in the HR, I tried to assimilate to that that stereotype, that prototype of a human resource manager saying no and yes, and you can't do this and you can't do that. And I wasn't truly myself and I truly started being successful when I started, you know, venturing on and being original. 00:06:36:15 - 00:06:54:04 Unknown So I took the mindset of that. I wasn't going to tell leaders and managers, No, you can't do this Right off the bat. I was going to tell them, Hey, I want to get that goal that you want, but here's how we can do this. Here's how we can get it done versus knowing. Yes. So it's compliance. It's the same kind of issues in that aspect versus telling them no or yes. 00:06:54:06 - 00:07:13:06 Unknown I'll give them parameters and say, Hey, I see what you're trying to do. This is the most compliant and best way to get there. So let's get it done together. Yeah. So, so running through kind of the task of all the tasks of HR, another one is to motivate employees, which can be kind of difficult. So how can HR 00:07:13:06 - 00:07:41:05 Unknown Professionals and managers work together to keep their teams engaged and motivated? That's that's a tough one, right? Because, you know, I say this all the time is that we're called individuals for a reason. So we're usually created in the we have individual values and views and perspectives. So to have that motivation, it's going to take really knowing and building a relationship with your organization, your culture and your employees. 00:07:41:07 - 00:08:00:07 Unknown So know your employees. One thing I told a member that I talked to, you know, he asked me, how can I motivate my employees? What's going on? They're not gauging. And I you know, I sat there and I said, Hey, you mind if I watch it for a little bit? Watch for a little bit? No problem. No problem. 00:08:00:09 - 00:08:21:09 Unknown So I sat down and took half the morning and just kind of watch his interactions with the employees. And I literally told him, I said, I saw four separate times where people were trying to talk to you and you didn't talk to people trying to walk. My actually, I didn't even look at and on two separate times we were trying to talk to you and you said, you know, you're busy with tomorrow. 00:08:21:11 - 00:08:42:10 Unknown I said, Engagement goes both ways, motivation goes both ways. You have to go and engage with them. Right. As a position of authority. Naturally. I think the way people are going to be timid to engage with you so that you have to said that you're setting a standard. Like I said, the engagement and motivation goes both ways. Show them that you're willing to do what you're asking them to do. 00:08:42:12 - 00:09:02:17 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's a good point. I know a lot of companies right now just have to kind of reevaluate what they're doing. Like you kind of sat in as a fly on the wall and you were able to see it. The HR department may not be able to see it because they're in it. So sometimes you kind of need an outsider almost to come in and see that. 00:09:02:17 - 00:09:32:14 Unknown ALL Yeah. So when it comes to achieving results, alignment with an organization is key, obviously. So how can HR create that alignment between different teams and departments? Yeah, so alignment comes out. You know, I talked about inclusion, communication, conversation alignment comes with understanding the goal, right? And creating processes and procedures that align with that, that THRIVE toward that goal. 00:09:32:16 - 00:09:55:11 Unknown A lot of companies have processes just because they happen. They said, we always have this or this is what we were always. But your goal changed, the business changed. You know, the world of business is very dynamic. It's always changing for you to keep the same processes. It might not make sense to achieve that goal. So I always tell the people, you know, look at what you're trying to achieve, work backwards and this is what we want it. 00:09:55:14 - 00:10:15:18 Unknown This is what we want to achieve. So let's do this. This, this is to get there versus, well, let's do this and go kind of around it, you know, align toward that goal, direct your process, your behavior and your diet and your actions toward achieving that ultimate goal. And just what you said right there, the world of business is very dynamic. 00:10:15:18 - 00:10:47:18 Unknown So I guess that kind of brings us to our next point of how can our assist managers in adapting their strategies and tactics to meet new challenges when business is always changing? Yeah, it's just constant reassessment, right? So like I said, I've been organizations all different functions and industries, and the thing I hear the most is this is how we've always done it or this is what they told us to do versus, you know, having that critical thinking skills, thinking about, hey, this is what they told us to do. 00:10:47:18 - 00:11:03:20 Unknown And so I was done it. But it doesn't kind of make sense. We're trying to do so we're going back to think about this is what we're trying to we're trying to achieve organic business. We're trying to grow. We're trying to we're trying to set customers and employee satisfaction. So what can we do to get better? Understanding your culture. 00:11:04:01 - 00:11:26:13 Unknown Culture is big, so I don't know if you know that I'm a teacher as well. Professor There's that. There's perio, pedagogy and anthropology. The type of learning that adults when when they learn, they want to learn by seeing what you do and looking what you do versus when you're a kid, you do this because you're told to do because you have to go through this. 00:11:26:13 - 00:11:43:23 Unknown You have to work through school, you have to go to high school as adults. They're there because they only want to be there. So let's make it a department that they want to be there right there. It's going to be changing. Not everyone's going to be the same, just like business is going to be evolving. It's going to be dynamic. 00:11:43:23 - 00:12:12:02 Unknown It's going to be contemporary. Some things may stay traditional, but it's going to move. You have to move with flexibility. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I should have mentioned that you were a teacher in the beginning too. I got so many different perspectives now from, well, we've kind of mentioned this throughout the whole podcast, but it seems like employee engagement is often one of the biggest concerns for managers. 00:12:12:04 - 00:12:44:19 Unknown So and you've touched on this briefly, but how can it really assist in measuring and improving employee engagement then to enhance team performance in an organization? Yeah, and that's that's a tough question, right? Because everyone is going to be different. But the thing it can say is, you know, just like business and sales engagement is building relationships, then understanding where you're talking to, what you're talking about, understanding the optimal goal and just building everybody should go toward it. 00:12:44:19 - 00:13:09:14 Unknown And earlier, making that effort to engage with their employees, making that effort to be as transparent. That's transparent as possible. And so you can't be completely transparent all the time, but be as open as possible because more people understand them more than want to THRIVE that goal and helping them get those fingerprints and open and get that engagement and touchpoints within that plan. 00:13:09:16 - 00:13:28:24 Unknown And that also helps, you know, they have a little skin in the game that will help them engage and help them. So, you know, I'm a part of this, right? But it starts and starts with the culture. And how is your culture is an engaging culture. Is it an open door culture? Is it, hey, I know we're business here, but how is your day and how are you doing? 00:13:29:01 - 00:13:45:18 Unknown Look at the example I gave previously. When a manager, you know, shoot people off or was too busy to talk to people or, you know, he walked from his office right to where he needs to go at to engage. You have to show them this is what engagement looks like. You have to show that, hey, I'm motivated to do my job. 00:13:45:18 - 00:14:13:12 Unknown You have to think, what do you think about this? Talk to them and increase that communication, increase that inclusion and then kind of full support. HR Is a big portion of that because a lot of people really don't have that perspective or understanding or mindset. And as a human resource manager, we understand that people are our business and people should be everyone's business because that's what business is created on. 00:14:13:14 - 00:14:40:05 Unknown Even even technical businesses, even process oriented businesses. They're all about people, right? We understand our people. The more we can utilize to take advantage of how great that asset can be and how much we can get to them, how much they can get does Yeah, absolutely. I love that you emphasized the importance of culture and having a good culture because that honestly THRIVEs your organization. 00:14:40:05 - 00:15:07:23 Unknown And you can tell on day one and even probably both before you work at the organization what their culture is because she's a very prominent thing in an organization. So it's like, you know, example that I give, which I've seen many times, is when you're interviewing people, show their best in the best of times and say, Hey, we're going over their culture where, you know, we want to hear everything you're saying. 00:15:08:00 - 00:15:40:02 Unknown But when you start, it's absolutely And I walk down the hall, every door was closed, closed door meetings, Everything feels like it's secretive. It feels like you're very being excluded. And that's absolute culture. So part of my research for my my doctorate was how to decrease turnover. The intention was really, truly millennials because I do my research on generation, but in how to decrease turnover intentionally with the number one decrease, there was the culture right? 00:15:40:04 - 00:15:56:16 Unknown Are you saying you do or are you being transparent? Are you including is are you hiring and retaining people? You need to cultivate that culture and that's a big thing is if you don't have a culture where you if you don't have what you want now, that's not a big deal. A lot of lot religion are in there. 00:15:56:20 - 00:16:18:03 Unknown They don't have what they want to go. They want to achieve. So but how are you going to get that right? What's your plan and how are you communicate and really in that plan, to your people, to your to your managers, and how are they acting on that? Well, you know, it's one thing to say it, but it's another thing to actually let them go. 00:16:18:03 - 00:16:43:00 Unknown I know you've given a ton of best practices and advice and tips throughout this whole podcast, but do you have any best practices for HR Professionals to really identify and leverage the functional strengths with within their organization to THRIVE that success that everybody wants? Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of times i will say this is a very known saying, but get comfortable with being accountable. 00:16:43:04 - 00:17:15:01 Unknown Right? So a lot of times when you talk the functions this is my first experience with my career when I taught the different functions and I wasn't prepared to talk to them about their business or their function. And so that decreased their trust and decrease their trust in me. So the more time to understand it and functions, I can have a direct conversation with about what their strengths were and and they can see that I'm taking that action to really understand what their strengths are and what their function is and what their goal is. 00:17:15:01 - 00:17:43:14 Unknown And the more I understood how they act, how they behave, what their processes were, the more I could create strategy to more insert myself into their function and help them grow. And it helped me grow so much. Understand business financially, understand business through the processes of manufacturing, understand business details and marketing. But I just, you know, like I said, part of the reason why I got my BBA was because I had a master's in science, which is great. 00:17:43:17 - 00:18:11:11 Unknown But I want to understand business as a whole more holistically. And that helped me grow so much, helped me grow immensely understanding different functioning business. And that's what I would give to each age and professional in any, anyone, any function. I try to learn business. Don't try to, you know, obviously, you know, you do. You're your expert at what you do, but be an expert at understanding the business and that will help you grow with your organization. 00:18:11:11 - 00:18:30:01 Unknown There's so much that is great advice. That's something that I'm trying to do too, is just even shadowing an apartment for a day to see what their day in the life is. And that, like you said, will help you understand the business as a whole and will help you do your job better, too, on the long run. Yeah. 00:18:30:01 - 00:18:48:20 Unknown Yeah. And with that is I know it sounds boring, but you know, what do you what's, what's going on in that meeting. I said in that meeting where. Hey, you mind if I, you know, tag along with you? Like I said, Do you mind if I show you? Do you mind if I hang out and kind of the following a little bit and understand what you're going through so I can better help you, better assist you and better support you. 00:18:49:01 - 00:19:09:00 Unknown And that's what it's about. You know, selfishly, I was trying to grow the business, not trying to grow myself, so I was trying to be a better project, better employee and a better person and more advanced to business. Absolutely. Well, as we wrap up your last question, can you share any key takeaways for our listeners on how HR 00:19:09:00 - 00:19:38:00 Unknown Can really be that strategic partner in helping managers manage effectively and achieve the optimal results in their organizations. Bring it full circle here. We'll circle sort of our circle like i would say, kind of like I said, understand the business more. You understand that business and that function and that environment, the more alignment you can create, right? So again, help them understand processes that they don't know the process of, hey, this is what we're doing. 00:19:38:02 - 00:20:08:20 Unknown Is that process, that HR Role. When i don't understand it, then they probably won't rule it out to the best of their ability. They probably won't engage in it to the best of your abilities. So help them understand it, right? Understand their business. They can understand your business. Say that that alignment, that inclusion, you know, still in their meetings, our conversation with them, engage with them, go out of your way, you know, go beyond a little bit to make them feel, you know, that they trust you, that the understanding that they believe in you. 00:20:08:22 - 00:20:30:23 Unknown Because the more trust, more understanding, the more inclusion you have, more transparency, you'll get more engaging, you'll get, the better you be able to help them and support them. And the more the business will be able to grow and that's what it's about, is creating that organic growth and that internal growth as well as that external world. So you can be successful in the business, can be successful decades. 00:20:31:00 - 00:20:54:01 Unknown This was great. I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and sharing all that great content and all the advice on how HR Can really help managers manage. So to our listeners, i would just encourage you if you liked our chat and topic today, comment something new that you learned today or something that you're going to start implementing or anything else that you'd like to add on to the conversation. 00:20:54:01 - 00:21:18:04 Unknown We want to know your thoughts, what you're thinking. If you have any new ideas on this topic. And don't forget to share out this episode, of course, and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show notes below. We've also included resources on this topic and DQ's contact info and LinkedIn profile if you want to connect with him. 00:21:18:06 - 00:21:39:18 Unknown Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and we will see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. 00:21:39:18 - 00:21:44:11 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

On the eve of the Sales Management Association's annual Sales Force Productivity Summit right here in the ATL at Emory University (NEXT week! March 12-13th ...use promo code TAGFAM for nearly half off at salesmanagement.org) SMA founder and commander-in-chief @Bob Kelly joins me to discuss the past, present and future of enablement through the lens of a globally recognized ambassador of Sales Management. HIGHLIGHTS from the SHOW:The first time bob heard Sales Enablement was from John Aiello and his partner Drew Larsen at the Savo Group in the late 90s/early aughts. They had created a system for distributing content, they called sales asset management. Craig Nelson of iCentera was doing this as well.At that point Bob saw Sales Enablement chiefly as a solution for marketing. Due to Sale's uncertain agency marketing couldn't really see nor control what the sales force was doing with their content and feared much of it was going to waste.The Sales Management Association tends to be more broadly sales effectiveness focused, but they have had sales enablement sponsors / underwriters co create content with them including Brain Shark, Highspot and Seismic.Bob's appeal on behalf of the SMA to those who have a niche focus in sales enablement / supporting the sales force is to learn about the bigger, broader issues affecting sales leadership, sales governance. "(At the SMA) we try to put our arms around a very diverse membership with that basic proposition, learn about the big ideas and get a broad understanding. A liberal arts education about what it means to work and to manage the sales function."QUOTES of NOTE:"A criticism of sales enablement that I have that it's too overreaching in its scope and definition. Only because it's poorly defined.""I would like to see sales enablement making better managers. That should be the charter.""The traditional function of sales management, a nanny function of supervising, making sure people are doing the right things in the right spots, it's largely a problem we automate now. So this has at least in theory, freed up some capacity to focus on more substantive things like making the sales organization better." "Our research shows on average, large sales forces reorganize every three years. And often that's in response to this fundamental need to change how the sales organization delivers value."Don't wait - hit PLAY! - to hear about all of the above...and so SO much more.Join in the journey with curiosity alongside those courageously treading the past, present, and future frontlines of a growing function and global profession. Please click

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode:  I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference. This discussion is with Marlon Hernandez, whose session is titled “Beyond the pint glass: Learnings from creating the new Molson Coors Non-Alcohol portfolio.” After over 233 years of brewing beer, Molson Coors announced its name change to Molson Coors Beverage Company to reflect its growing focus on beverages outside the traditional beer offers. A successful market entry strategy in the non-alcohol space was one of the critical pillars of the transformational journey into a beverage company. Marlon will share with us the process of defining, shaping, and building this new portfolio and how the PDMA body of knowledge helped him during this process. Also, this episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise, and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Whether you are just starting an internship program or you have one already, discover the key qualities that make interns thrive, learn how internship programs can shape future leaders, and explore innovative approaches to foster a culture of continuous learning and development. We'll share tips on creating challenging projects that elevate interns to showcase their leadership potential. Resources: MRA Membership  About MRA  Intern Program MRA's 2024 Internship Leadership Program Calendar Recruiting   Let's Connect: Courtney's email Courtney's LinkedIn profile   Transcript 00:00:00:01 - 00:00:05:13 Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything 00:00:05:13 - 00:00:09:22 and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. 00:00:09:24 - 00:00:12:24 Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? 00:00:12:24 - 00:00:14:19 MRA has got you covered. 00:00:14:19 - 00:00:17:17 We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. 00:00:17:17 - 00:00:21:04 I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:22:21 Now it's time to thrive. 00:00:22:21 - 00:00:26:16 Hello, everybody, and welcome to 30 Minute Thrive. 00:00:26:18 - 00:00:29:24 Today we're going to be talking about the ins and outs of internships. 00:00:30:03 - 00:00:34:15 So if you're looking to start an internship program at your organization, 00:00:34:21 - 00:00:37:17 or maybe you have one started already, but you're looking to make it 00:00:37:17 - 00:00:41:13 even more successful, it's a good thing you're here today with us 00:00:41:13 - 00:00:46:04 because we're joined by Courtney Lamers, MRA, senior manager of member Engagement 00:00:46:10 - 00:00:50:08 and MRA's Intern Leadership program organizer. 00:00:50:10 - 00:00:54:10 So Courtney's really here to help organizations 00:00:54:10 - 00:00:58:04 not only design and implement an internship program, 00:00:58:04 - 00:01:02:17 but also help develop existing ones into successful programs. 00:01:02:19 - 00:01:06:06 And having been an intern myself at Emory, 00:01:06:08 - 00:01:09:21 I love this topic, and I'm really excited to talk about it. 00:01:09:21 - 00:01:12:11 So, Courtney, let's start. 00:01:12:11 - 00:01:14:24 Start from the top here. 00:01:14:24 - 00:01:18:22 Those who have never implemented an internship program before. 00:01:18:24 - 00:01:23:22 What are some of the key starting factors that a company would really need? 00:01:23:24 - 00:01:24:13 Absolutely. 00:01:24:13 - 00:01:27:05 Great question. And thank you for having me today. 00:01:27:05 - 00:01:27:13 You know, 00:01:27:13 - 00:01:27:23 it really 00:01:27:23 - 00:01:31:16 is that time of the year where everyone is reaching out about internships. 00:01:31:16 - 00:01:35:09 And it's been exciting to hear from a lot of companies that are just 00:01:35:10 - 00:01:37:05 beginning their internship journey. 00:01:37:05 - 00:01:40:14 So I think it's going to be a really fun summer and I'm super 00:01:40:14 - 00:01:43:14 excited for all of you that have interns. 00:01:43:20 - 00:01:46:08 I think those that have had interns have really found it 00:01:46:08 - 00:01:50:02 valuable and continue to see that year over year. 00:01:50:04 - 00:01:53:12 And so I'm really excited for all of those companies that are starting it. 00:01:53:14 - 00:01:56:04 I think that's a great question to start with, just because we do 00:01:56:04 - 00:01:59:21 see a lot of companies that are starting internship program. 00:01:59:23 - 00:02:03:21 And I would say the key in starting an internship program 00:02:04:02 - 00:02:07:04 and there's a lot of things that go into it, but one of the most important 00:02:07:04 - 00:02:10:24 things is making sure that you have the correct manager 00:02:11:01 - 00:02:15:18 and managers in place to support and intern support their experience 00:02:15:18 - 00:02:17:00 as a whole, 00:02:17:00 - 00:02:18:11 and be able to have some of those 00:02:18:11 - 00:02:21:16 difficult conversation zones where I think we see with companies, 00:02:21:16 - 00:02:27:01 a lot of times managers will come and say, I really want an intern, 00:02:27:03 - 00:02:30:23 but if that manager may not have the culture in the department, 00:02:30:23 - 00:02:31:20 that character may not 00:02:31:20 - 00:02:35:17 necessarily be equipped with the tools to be a great manager for an intern. 00:02:35:19 - 00:02:40:02 Someone companies are having those conversations, so I think manager buy in 00:02:40:02 - 00:02:43:12 and understanding of what it really takes to have an intern is huge. 00:02:43:12 - 00:02:47:22 I think like any new employee, I think interns 00:02:47:22 - 00:02:52:23 take a little bit of extra time and really supporting that experience 00:02:52:23 - 00:02:57:00 from mentorship and coaching and giving them opportunities. 00:02:57:00 - 00:03:00:01 There is a little bit of additional work 00:03:00:03 - 00:03:01:14 for an intern, so 00:03:01:14 - 00:03:05:15 I think we see companies that have super successful intern programs 00:03:05:15 - 00:03:09:22 and what you see behind those are managers and companies that have complete buy in. 00:03:09:22 - 00:03:13:07 So I think honestly, before you even get to the manager piece, 00:03:13:08 - 00:03:17:16 you need to think about and talk with your leadership team and understand 00:03:17:16 - 00:03:22:15 that there is a buy in needed and an investment honestly, 00:03:22:15 - 00:03:28:11 between both time and money and what goes into a great experience. 00:03:28:12 - 00:03:31:08 So I think, you know, really the buy in is the first step 00:03:31:08 - 00:03:35:07 and then there are a lot of steps along the way to get to that manager piece. 00:03:35:07 - 00:03:38:04 But I think that is so key. 00:03:38:04 - 00:03:40:05 Just kind of starting about with the whole experience. 00:03:40:05 - 00:03:42:20 So obviously once you have the manager buy in, that's huge. 00:03:42:20 - 00:03:44:22 Or leadership by an excuse me. 00:03:44:22 - 00:03:48:06 And then I think really think about why you're having an intern. 00:03:48:06 - 00:03:54:04 You know, I think in the past interns have historically been added 00:03:54:04 - 00:03:57:12 to a team to help with some of those, you know, daily tasks 00:03:57:12 - 00:04:00:12 and some of those things that can be taken off of other people's plates. 00:04:00:12 - 00:04:03:20 But we see a lot of companies that are looking to hire 00:04:03:20 - 00:04:06:20 interns for a long term perspective. 00:04:06:21 - 00:04:11:01 So one from a brand awareness standpoint, these interns are going back to 00:04:11:01 - 00:04:14:01 and talking to their friends on campus 00:04:14:01 - 00:04:16:23 and even on social media about their experience as a whole. 00:04:16:23 - 00:04:21:05 So those you know, word of mouth brand, ambassador pieces is a huge part of it. 00:04:21:05 - 00:04:24:20 And we also see interns a lot as their town supply chain. 00:04:24:20 - 00:04:26:20 So really trying to hang on to those interns. 00:04:26:20 - 00:04:28:19 So just really understanding the why. 00:04:28:19 - 00:04:32:07 What's the purpose of your program and then putting some of those structural 00:04:32:07 - 00:04:37:11 pieces around to support the intern throughout the length of their internship. 00:04:37:13 - 00:04:38:10 And then, of course, 00:04:38:10 - 00:04:42:09 thinking about what are those elements that make this an experience as a whole? 00:04:42:09 - 00:04:44:18 So of course there's the work component of it, 00:04:44:18 - 00:04:48:15 but what mentorship opportunities, what networking, professional development, 00:04:48:17 - 00:04:50:24 all of that staff to provide this great experience. 00:04:50:24 - 00:04:54:07 So the interns really want to either 00:04:54:08 - 00:04:57:09 say at your organization or go back and tell their friends all about it. 00:04:57:09 - 00:05:02:01 So long winded way of saying like, there's a lot of pieces to get started. 00:05:02:03 - 00:05:05:09 But the most important one, just having that manager 00:05:05:11 - 00:05:07:07 really be there to support their interns. 00:05:07:07 - 00:05:08:15 Sorry that as long you continue to hear. 00:05:08:15 - 00:05:13:14 Question So there's a lot that goes into starting an internship program, 00:05:13:14 - 00:05:17:22 and like you said before, even thinking about it, it's the whole planning process 00:05:17:22 - 00:05:21:14 and evaluating why am I having interns 00:05:21:16 - 00:05:24:15 who at the company can manage the interns 00:05:24:15 - 00:05:30:16 and has the capacity to do that, and then it's also thinking about like 00:05:30:18 - 00:05:31:21 some companies may 00:05:31:21 - 00:05:34:21 have one intern, but some may have 30. 00:05:34:21 - 00:05:35:16 So it's like, 00:05:35:16 - 00:05:40:14 how do you split that up between managers and and roles and stuff like that? 00:05:40:16 - 00:05:43:04 But once you have that plan 00:05:43:04 - 00:05:47:01 in place, like you were talking about, even then, even if you already 00:05:47:01 - 00:05:51:00 have a great internship program developed, how do you find the interns? 00:05:51:00 - 00:05:56:18 I think that's a huge question, like recruiting best practices. 00:05:56:20 - 00:06:01:20 Do you have any suggestions on where to find interns, when to find interns? 00:06:01:20 - 00:06:05:00 I know now is a great time to start talking about it, 00:06:05:00 - 00:06:08:23 but just looking for any best practices you might have there. 00:06:09:00 - 00:06:09:21 Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:09:21 - 00:06:13:03 Shameless plug for companies Recruiting services team. 00:06:13:05 - 00:06:13:23 They really do 00:06:13:23 - 00:06:18:17 all of their recruiting for interns, so they are a great resource to tap. 00:06:18:17 - 00:06:21:21 But I would say we see 00:06:21:21 - 00:06:26:00 a lot of interns get hired from networking and schools. 00:06:26:00 - 00:06:30:02 We just had a hot topic survey not too long ago 00:06:30:02 - 00:06:33:15 and I think like 87% of our respondents have that. 00:06:33:20 - 00:06:38:04 They find their interns and they have a lot of great luck by 00:06:38:06 - 00:06:41:04 going to job fairs at universities and colleges 00:06:41:04 - 00:06:45:21 and just different locations where they're able to network with people. 00:06:45:23 - 00:06:48:14 I would also say share it out to your LinkedIn page. 00:06:48:14 - 00:06:49:14 You know, 00:06:49:14 - 00:06:54:17 I think we see a lot of interns get hired because of connections they have. 00:06:54:17 - 00:06:55:06 And I 00:06:55:06 - 00:06:59:00 you know, I get we'll find out something about MRA's intern leadership program 00:06:59:00 - 00:07:02:22 and I'll get people come back and say like, well, I don't have 00:07:03:02 - 00:07:05:07 an intern at my company, but I do have a daughter 00:07:05:07 - 00:07:07:17 that's looking for an internship or a niece or a nephew. 00:07:07:17 - 00:07:10:18 And I'm always willing to help pair that. 00:07:10:18 - 00:07:12:23 So you just never know who is going to see some of that. 00:07:12:23 - 00:07:15:23 But like I said, I think for the most part, 00:07:16:02 - 00:07:18:18 people have a lot of luck getting in front of the universities, 00:07:18:18 - 00:07:21:23 the colleges and being on campus in front of the next generation 00:07:21:23 - 00:07:26:02 of talent and just from a brand awareness standpoint, there's always a benefit 00:07:26:02 - 00:07:27:15 there, too. 00:07:27:15 - 00:07:31:09 As far as timing, you know, I think we've seen it 00:07:31:11 - 00:07:35:20 be done successfully at various times throughout the year. 00:07:35:22 - 00:07:36:23 You know, 00:07:36:23 - 00:07:40:14 we are seeing a lot of companies now that are ramping up for summer internship. 00:07:40:14 - 00:07:44:16 So they are starting to just  find their interns. 00:07:44:16 - 00:07:48:06 Now, we do recommend a little bit earlier than now at this point of the year. 00:07:48:06 - 00:07:52:23 We'll see some of the schools and the organizations 00:07:52:23 - 00:07:57:02 that have bigger internship programs are starting right after the summer. 00:07:57:02 - 00:08:01:03 So they're starting in September hiring all the way for the next summer. 00:08:01:03 - 00:08:03:15 And I mean, it's a lot of work to fill. 00:08:03:15 - 00:08:08:15 35 internships or however many there are, but a lot of the career 00:08:08:16 - 00:08:12:00 offers happen early in the fall and again in the spring. 00:08:12:00 - 00:08:13:15 So just kind of thinking, 00:08:13:15 - 00:08:16:21 being strategic about that, it doesn't mean you have to start in the fall. 00:08:16:23 - 00:08:19:20 People have a lot of great luck in the spring, 00:08:19:20 - 00:08:22:01 so definitely an option to. 00:08:22:01 - 00:08:26:04 But as far as best practices, I would also say think about your job 00:08:26:04 - 00:08:29:22 description and your job ad and you don't have to put 00:08:29:22 - 00:08:33:18 every single detail, every single project that they're going to be working on. 00:08:33:18 - 00:08:37:23 But some highlight some of those main responsibilities, 00:08:37:23 - 00:08:39:24 of course, but then some of those fun things too. 00:08:39:24 - 00:08:41:10 So like, for example, 00:08:41:10 - 00:08:45:06 we have a company that's participating in the Intern Leadership Program program 00:08:45:06 - 00:08:49:10 that I'm a grant offers, and they put that as part of their job description 00:08:49:12 - 00:08:52:23 in every single one of their interns 00:08:53:00 - 00:08:55:01 that they ended up hiring have said 00:08:55:01 - 00:08:57:15 they had to ask the question, like, Why did you apply for this internship? 00:08:57:15 - 00:08:59:24 And they also had the intern leadership program. 00:08:59:24 - 00:09:02:24 So some of that professional development that's part of that intern 00:09:02:24 - 00:09:06:01 program can be part of the the job at that job description. 00:09:06:01 - 00:09:09:19 So some of those fun key elements in showcasing the mentorship 00:09:09:19 - 00:09:12:09 and networking opportunities that they're going to have. 00:09:12:09 - 00:09:13:19 And also I would just say 00:09:13:19 - 00:09:17:04 if there's an opportunity for them to learn the business as a whole, 00:09:17:04 - 00:09:21:00 put some of that stuff in your job ads as well. 00:09:21:00 - 00:09:25:03 I think interns in general are just trying to gain as much experience 00:09:25:03 - 00:09:26:04 and knowledge as they can. 00:09:26:04 - 00:09:29:04 So if they see that in your job description, in your job ad, 00:09:29:07 - 00:09:32:06 I think that's going to be a huge draw for them. 00:09:32:08 - 00:09:32:23 Absolutely. 00:09:32:23 - 00:09:37:16 I was going to say you're trying to attract these interns like a new employee. 00:09:37:16 - 00:09:43:12 So like like you said, be creative and show off what flexible arrangements 00:09:43:12 - 00:09:46:12 you may have something that's going to attract 00:09:46:14 - 00:09:49:21 an intern to work for your organization. 00:09:49:23 - 00:09:54:16 Well, those are the things that we hear about from the interns, is 00:09:54:18 - 00:09:57:09 they like I mean, they like the flexibility, of course. 00:09:57:09 - 00:09:59:08 But I think some of the struggle is 00:09:59:08 - 00:10:03:06 they really want to learn from others and be mentored. 00:10:03:08 - 00:10:07:08 And it's really hard to do that if they're coming into the office, 00:10:07:08 - 00:10:09:14 which they a lot of them have shown that 00:10:09:14 - 00:10:12:24 they want to come into the office for that mentorship opportunity. 00:10:13:01 - 00:10:14:04 But if they're coming in 00:10:14:04 - 00:10:17:23 and nobody else is in the office, that can be a really challenging thing too. 00:10:17:23 - 00:10:20:17 So if you are able to express 00:10:20:17 - 00:10:24:18 what those mentorship opportunities and those learning opportunities are, that 00:10:24:19 - 00:10:30:23 I think is a great way for them to like, really understand how that could happen. 00:10:31:00 - 00:10:33:03 And the other thing just kind of going back to, 00:10:33:03 - 00:10:36:00 you know, the timing of hiring interns, 00:10:36:00 - 00:10:38:17 we've seen a lot more in the last year 00:10:38:17 - 00:10:42:17 to of companies that are hiring interns and then 00:10:42:19 - 00:10:45:22 they're struggling to retain them, even to start their internship. 00:10:45:22 - 00:10:48:22 So, you know, you have to find that balance of 00:10:49:01 - 00:10:51:21 hiring them early enough, but then also keeping them engaged. 00:10:51:21 - 00:10:54:06 So if you do hire them in January, 00:10:54:06 - 00:10:57:22 that's still another five or six months until they start their internship. 00:10:57:24 - 00:11:00:10 So just think about how you're going to keep them engaged 00:11:00:10 - 00:11:02:19 and excited about your internship experience. 00:11:02:19 - 00:11:05:18 You know, we typically we've seen some data 00:11:05:18 - 00:11:09:01 and we recommend, you know, every three weeks that you're reaching out 00:11:09:03 - 00:11:13:09 or three to every three weeks, you're reaching out to those interns, 00:11:13:11 - 00:11:16:05 you know, with some type of communication, whether it's 00:11:16:05 - 00:11:19:23 their managers are reaching out, whether it's different people on the team, 00:11:19:23 - 00:11:23:16 HR Sharing company newsletters, all of that stuff to keep them engaged 00:11:23:22 - 00:11:26:04 so they're not like i still have this internship. 00:11:26:04 - 00:11:28:18 I haven't heard from them in a couple of months. Like, what's going on here? 00:11:28:18 - 00:11:32:17 So just keeping them excited and engaged is important too. 00:11:32:19 - 00:11:35:23 Yeah, absolutely. Those are all great points. 00:11:36:00 - 00:11:36:15 Let's say you have 00:11:36:15 - 00:11:39:15 your group of hired interns. Now. 00:11:39:17 - 00:11:44:14 What steps are really taken then to integrate them into the company's work 00:11:44:14 - 00:11:47:23 environment and to kind of 00:11:48:00 - 00:11:51:15 what does the onboarding process look like for them? 00:11:51:17 - 00:11:53:23 Yeah, I think, you know, that's a great question. 00:11:53:23 - 00:11:57:00 And I would say I would just start 00:11:57:00 - 00:12:00:09 by looking at what your current onboarding process is for any new hire. 00:12:00:09 - 00:12:03:19 I mean, a lot of that will pertain to them as well. 00:12:03:21 - 00:12:07:08 But then looking at what additional pieces are you going to add? 00:12:07:10 - 00:12:10:15 Again, I think less the internship experience really is 00:12:10:20 - 00:12:12:09 what I just had an experience. 00:12:12:09 - 00:12:15:17 So what are you doing for them on day one 00:12:15:17 - 00:12:18:21 to really provide that impact and get them excited for the summer? 00:12:18:21 - 00:12:20:19 Obviously there are some major 00:12:20:19 - 00:12:21:13 things that you just have 00:12:21:13 - 00:12:24:17 to take care of on day one, but what swag are you giving them? 00:12:24:17 - 00:12:28:08 Are you buying them lunch or are they getting to meet with a lot of people? 00:12:28:10 - 00:12:31:20 You know, I think day one really should be about building some of that excitement. 00:12:32:01 - 00:12:37:02 But then how are they learning and growing throughout their entire summer? 00:12:37:02 - 00:12:40:11 And what is that learning plan and onboarding look like beyond day 00:12:40:11 - 00:12:43:14 one and how to integrate them within the organization? 00:12:43:14 - 00:12:45:11 And of course, every company is different. 00:12:45:11 - 00:12:47:06 And what they need to know. 00:12:47:06 - 00:12:51:03 But I would just really recommend that you look at your own current 00:12:51:03 - 00:12:54:22 onboarding process, how to even enhance that even a little bit further, 00:12:54:22 - 00:12:58:14 like knowing that this a lot of them this might be their first real 00:12:58:19 - 00:13:00:03 job in the workplace 00:13:00:03 - 00:13:03:17 and how do you help them feel comfortable and navigate some of those, 00:13:03:19 - 00:13:08:04 you know, nuances or things that people you assume people just know 00:13:08:04 - 00:13:12:00 by being in the workplace and even just like dress code. 00:13:12:00 - 00:13:14:17 I know that's not the most exciting thing, but like, 00:13:14:17 - 00:13:17:05 you know, we've had a lot of companies say 00:13:17:07 - 00:13:19:00 our interns don't even know what our dress code is. 00:13:19:00 - 00:13:22:20 And, you know, you forget that sometimes this is their first real job. 00:13:22:20 - 00:13:24:05 So having to help them out. 00:13:24:05 - 00:13:26:13 And honestly, the earlier, the better. 00:13:26:13 - 00:13:29:23 That can be something you can communicate even before they start. 00:13:29:23 - 00:13:31:04 So I think really just 00:13:31:04 - 00:13:33:07 how do you assimilate them with your organization 00:13:33:07 - 00:13:36:19 and your best practices within your company and how they can, 00:13:36:24 - 00:13:40:11 you know, feel comfortable and be set up for success from the beginning? 00:13:40:13 - 00:13:41:19 You know, I look at it. 00:13:41:19 - 00:13:45:04 So if you when you were an intern, which was, you know, a while ago now, but, 00:13:45:06 - 00:13:48:06 you know, you texted me and your manager at 00:13:48:06 - 00:13:51:18 the time was like, hey, like we're about a week and a half out. 00:13:51:18 - 00:13:52:15 Like what? 00:13:52:15 - 00:13:54:00 You know, what is the dress code? 00:13:54:00 - 00:13:55:02 And we're like, my gosh. 00:13:55:02 - 00:13:58:00 Like, how did we not even tell her about? Like, that's a great question. 00:13:58:00 - 00:14:00:21 You know, like, you're just trying to be set up for success. 00:14:00:21 - 00:14:05:08 So any of those things that might be on their minds just let those know upfront. 00:14:05:08 - 00:14:08:08 And I think also just a side note of that, it's like 00:14:08:09 - 00:14:10:11 make sure they have your phone number so they can text you 00:14:10:11 - 00:14:12:09 those questions and encourage them to do that. 00:14:12:09 - 00:14:14:12 Because like when you text us, we were like, 00:14:14:12 - 00:14:16:20 my gosh, like, of course, how do we not even think about that? 00:14:16:20 - 00:14:20:08 And obviously it was on your mind because you sent us a message. 00:14:20:10 - 00:14:24:19 Yeah, that's funny because I was going to bring that up as an example here. 00:14:24:21 - 00:14:28:06 Just showing the importance of onboarding in the interim 00:14:28:06 - 00:14:32:24 because like you said, a lot of the time an internship is 00:14:33:00 - 00:14:36:19 maybe somebody's first real life kind of job experience. 00:14:36:19 - 00:14:42:00 So the onboarding process is just as important, as important, 00:14:42:00 - 00:14:44:08 if not the most important stuff, in my opinion. 00:14:44:08 - 00:14:46:08 Just because you want to 00:14:46:08 - 00:14:50:05 make that group first impression and get them excited on day one. 00:14:50:07 - 00:14:54:15 And yeah, I think for my experience 00:14:54:17 - 00:14:59:04 I felt comfortable to text you guys and say, Hey, like 00:14:59:06 - 00:15:03:02 we're a couple days away from first day, what's the dress code? 00:15:03:04 - 00:15:04:14 But then I also remember 00:15:04:14 - 00:15:07:00 feeling very comfortable when I first walked in 00:15:07:00 - 00:15:09:09 because I got to meet everyone at the company. 00:15:09:09 - 00:15:12:19 There is a swag like gift 00:15:12:19 - 00:15:15:19 bag or laid all over my desk. 00:15:15:19 - 00:15:19:00 Just the process of day one one. Awesome. 00:15:19:00 - 00:15:23:06 And I remember also being in the car because 00:15:23:08 - 00:15:28:11 you and my manager took me out to lunch and I remember like taking a picture, 00:15:28:11 - 00:15:33:00 a selfie in the backseat, and I'm like, Mom would be taking me out to lunch. 00:15:33:00 - 00:15:34:23 And I had my name tag. 00:15:34:23 - 00:15:38:02 But it is the little things that make the day 00:15:38:02 - 00:15:41:04 one experience and it gets I don't know, it made me excited. 00:15:41:04 - 00:15:44:10 Hey, to come back day two and like, what's day two going to look like? 00:15:44:10 - 00:15:46:06 What stage three gonna look like? 00:15:46:06 - 00:15:49:20 So kind of like continuously sparking 00:15:49:20 - 00:15:53:15 that excitement to make make the experience great. 00:15:53:17 - 00:15:58:09 And it was also I mean, I think that's so true. 00:15:58:09 - 00:16:02:03 And you know, I think you start to take some of those things for granted 00:16:02:04 - 00:16:03:09 like a business card, 00:16:03:09 - 00:16:07:11 a name tag, like, you know, you've been in in the business world for a while. 00:16:07:11 - 00:16:08:06 And, you know, 00:16:08:06 - 00:16:10:03 I think business cards were such a big deal 00:16:10:03 - 00:16:12:18 when I got them for the first time was like, my gosh, she's an intern. 00:16:12:18 - 00:16:13:22 I have business cards. 00:16:13:22 - 00:16:16:06 And it was like giving them to my family members. 00:16:16:06 - 00:16:19:08 And it's like, you know, it's such a little thing, but it really does. 00:16:19:08 - 00:16:22:08 You're like, my gosh, like I'm an adult now, you know? 00:16:22:09 - 00:16:25:19 So I think, like you said, it's all about those little experiences. 00:16:26:00 - 00:16:26:11 Yeah. 00:16:26:11 - 00:16:31:17 And just to add on to that, to I know we talked about going out to lunch 00:16:31:17 - 00:16:36:01 or doing something special, but even if you have virtual interns 00:16:36:01 - 00:16:39:06 or remote interns, which I think is kind of 00:16:39:08 - 00:16:41:21 becoming the new normal, almost, 00:16:41:21 - 00:16:44:21 you can still do those special things. 00:16:44:21 - 00:16:46:13 Maybe you send them a gift card on day 00:16:46:13 - 00:16:51:05 one to go grab something for lunch or maybe do a virtual lunch with them. 00:16:51:05 - 00:16:54:10 So we were talking about our experience in person, 00:16:54:10 - 00:16:58:18 but this can definitely apply virtually to Absolutely for sure. 00:16:58:21 - 00:17:02:13 I mean, I think gift cards, just DoorDash and something to their door, 00:17:02:15 - 00:17:03:18 There's a lot of there's 00:17:03:18 - 00:17:07:14 a lot of creative things out there that companies are doing, for sure. 00:17:07:16 - 00:17:08:07 Yeah. 00:17:08:07 - 00:17:09:22 So next step here now 00:17:09:22 - 00:17:13:15 we talk about recruiting interns, kind of whole planning process. 00:17:13:17 - 00:17:17:11 So let's say your internship program is established. 00:17:17:13 - 00:17:21:21 How would you really ensure its sustainability and what strategies 00:17:21:24 - 00:17:25:01 would you employ for the continuous improvement 00:17:25:01 - 00:17:29:09 based on feedback and just industry trends? 00:17:29:11 - 00:17:31:04 Yeah, I mean, I always saw companies 00:17:31:04 - 00:17:33:15 like don't be afraid to just ask your interns 00:17:33:15 - 00:17:35:14 what they're thinking and ask for feedback. 00:17:35:14 - 00:17:36:23 You know, 00:17:36:23 - 00:17:41:16 I think some interns are more comfortable than others about giving their feedback, 00:17:41:16 - 00:17:45:17 but I think, you know, even just a full survey every week 00:17:45:17 - 00:17:49:14 or every other week, whether it comes from HR Or the hiring manager, 00:17:49:16 - 00:17:51:19 just giving them an opportunity to share 00:17:51:19 - 00:17:54:19 what's on their mind and what recommendations they have. 00:17:54:20 - 00:17:58:24 We see a lot of companies that typically do you know what is known 00:17:58:24 - 00:18:01:19 as an exit interview where they're just asking for feedback 00:18:01:19 - 00:18:05:13 and the amount of times companies say like, wow, that was such a simple thing. 00:18:05:13 - 00:18:07:22 We could have implemented that if we knew. 00:18:07:22 - 00:18:12:08 So we're even seeing companies that are doing poll surveys like I 00:18:12:08 - 00:18:17:04 mentioned, or a couple of weeks in, like how was your first month on the job? 00:18:17:04 - 00:18:21:08 Is there anything else we can do to support you in For the most part, and 00:18:21:08 - 00:18:25:03 HR Has reported, at least from the groups that i've talked with, 00:18:25:05 - 00:18:27:12 they're getting really good feedback from their interns, 00:18:27:12 - 00:18:29:19 and they're like some of the things are so small 00:18:29:19 - 00:18:32:15 that we can just implement right away, and some of them are bigger picture 00:18:32:15 - 00:18:35:15 that we can take, you know, in a white company. Why? 00:18:35:15 - 00:18:39:03 And so I got to just talk to them, see how they're doing, and give them 00:18:39:09 - 00:18:43:12 an opportunity in a safe space to have those conversations. 00:18:43:14 - 00:18:45:15 I would also just say, 00:18:45:15 - 00:18:48:15 talking to other companies and reading more on best practices 00:18:48:15 - 00:18:50:15 about what other companies are doing, 00:18:50:15 - 00:18:52:10 there's a lot of great information out there. 00:18:52:10 - 00:18:57:11 You know, of course, we have our roundtables and internships 00:18:57:11 - 00:19:00:21 typically come up in a lot of the different roundtables. 00:19:00:21 - 00:19:02:09 So just being able to hear 00:19:02:09 - 00:19:06:02 what cool things other companies are doing are a great way to benchmark, 00:19:06:04 - 00:19:09:03 you know, what your program looks like and what you're providing to your interns 00:19:09:03 - 00:19:10:00 and even just spark 00:19:10:00 - 00:19:14:16 some additional ideas and, you know, help bounce ideas off of each other as well. 00:19:14:18 - 00:19:16:00 Yeah, for sure. 00:19:16:00 - 00:19:19:15 So we've talked about the importance of continuous 00:19:19:15 - 00:19:22:22 learning and skill development with interns. 00:19:22:24 - 00:19:25:14 So how do you really foster a culture 00:19:25:14 - 00:19:30:19 of that continuous learning with your internship programs? 00:19:30:21 - 00:19:34:08 And I guess how do you kind of encourage interns 00:19:34:08 - 00:19:41:21 to stay updated on industry trends and kind of want to acquire new skills? 00:19:41:23 - 00:19:45:24 Yeah, You know, when you sent this to me in advance, I was looking through this 00:19:45:24 - 00:19:51:19 and I was thinking a lot of  a lot of the term culture of continuous 00:19:51:22 - 00:19:56:09 learning and continuous professional development mindset. 00:19:56:11 - 00:19:59:19 And at first when I started reading the question, I was like, 00:19:59:21 - 00:20:04:07 I was thinking about it from a manager and culture standpoint beyond the intern. 00:20:04:07 - 00:20:08:07 And I think, well, we hear from companies and managers is they learn so much 00:20:08:07 - 00:20:11:12 and get a whole different perspective by bringing in the interns. 00:20:11:14 - 00:20:12:18 So part of that is like when you're 00:20:12:18 - 00:20:15:04 building the intern program from the beginning, 00:20:15:04 - 00:20:18:10 you're setting expectations of your company and your culture of we're 00:20:18:10 - 00:20:22:15 bringing these interns in to do real work, make a real impact, 00:20:22:17 - 00:20:25:09 and kind of setting that up from the beginning and be open minded. 00:20:25:09 - 00:20:26:13 So they're not just here to do 00:20:26:13 - 00:20:30:21 some of the dirty work, if you will, and they're really here to make an impact. 00:20:30:21 - 00:20:34:02 So I think, you know, the continuous learning goes from both sides. 00:20:34:02 - 00:20:37:15 From the intern perspective, I think 00:20:37:17 - 00:20:41:05 we see so many interns, almost all of them that we see 00:20:41:05 - 00:20:45:11 already come in with just a hunger to learn and absorb so much. 00:20:45:11 - 00:20:49:20 I think you're you're lucky with that demographic of people and interns 00:20:49:20 - 00:20:53:08 because they just naturally are here to learn as much as they can. 00:20:53:13 - 00:20:54:24 They're excited to learn and they're excited 00:20:54:24 - 00:20:57:14 to grow in their career and they want to do whatever they can. 00:20:57:14 - 00:20:59:23 You know, again, I think part of it 00:20:59:23 - 00:21:03:14 even can go back to their job description or job expectations of 00:21:03:18 - 00:21:06:14 what is your professional development, How are you going to learn this? 00:21:06:14 - 00:21:08:07 And even having maybe 00:21:08:07 - 00:21:13:24 an individual development plan for them and learn it, you know, part of it being a 00:21:14:01 - 00:21:17:08 an opportunity for them to learn industry standards, maybe some job shadow, 00:21:17:08 - 00:21:18:09 some of that type of stuff. 00:21:18:09 - 00:21:21:16 But then also some of those are skills that they can take no matter what role 00:21:21:16 - 00:21:23:21 they have in their career 00:21:23:23 - 00:21:24:22 communication. 00:21:24:22 - 00:21:28:06 You know, all those leadership skills change management, all of that is all 00:21:28:08 - 00:21:32:02 good and things that they can put on their resume. 00:21:32:04 - 00:21:36:14 I also recommend talking about it in your one on one conversations with managers. 00:21:36:14 - 00:21:39:14 And it doesn't have to be every single day. 00:21:39:14 - 00:21:42:16 But I think, you know, when I was an intern again, this is a while ago, 00:21:42:21 - 00:21:46:19 but I think you're doing projects that might feel mundane to you 00:21:46:21 - 00:21:50:16 and you don't necessarily even realize the impact that you're having. 00:21:50:18 - 00:21:55:12 And like I remember when I was talking to one of my managers in 00:21:55:14 - 00:22:00:10 a previous internship and they were like, my gosh, like you did a great job 00:22:00:12 - 00:22:04:08 with this project management, like project management to your skill set 00:22:04:08 - 00:22:07:02 and add that to your resume. And I was like, Project management. 00:22:07:02 - 00:22:10:14 Like, all I did was schedule some meetings and take some notes or whatever, 00:22:10:16 - 00:22:12:07 and they were like, No, you did way more than that. 00:22:12:07 - 00:22:16:10 But even just being able to explain the impact that the interns are having, 00:22:16:10 - 00:22:19:05 and I feel like I don't know if you can speak on experience, 00:22:19:05 - 00:22:22:23 but I feel like interns don't always realize, like they just feel like 00:22:22:23 - 00:22:24:24 they're doing a small project and then it's like, 00:22:24:24 - 00:22:28:10 No, this was actually huge and this is what I did and X, Y and Z, 00:22:28:10 - 00:22:30:13 and these are the skills that you learn from it. 00:22:30:13 - 00:22:33:00 So we can talk about feedback in a minute. 00:22:33:00 - 00:22:36:12 But as far as you know, having those conversations and helping 00:22:36:12 - 00:22:40:08 them understand what they've done and the skills they have is huge. 00:22:40:10 - 00:22:42:09 Yeah, I going off of that. 00:22:42:09 - 00:22:48:15 I was recently reading an article, a LinkedIn article on 2024 00:22:48:17 - 00:22:52:21 internship trends, and one of them was 00:22:52:23 - 00:22:58:03 something like Prioritize skill development over traditional work. 00:22:58:05 - 00:23:02:18 And I think we've emphasized that a lot here on the skill development. 00:23:02:18 - 00:23:05:24 And it doesn't mean interns can't do traditional work 00:23:05:24 - 00:23:11:00 like the hands on kind of mundane stuff like you were saying. 00:23:11:02 - 00:23:14:13 But it's really like talking about what skills they're developing 00:23:14:13 - 00:23:19:17 and what skills you as an employer want them to develop so that they succeed 00:23:19:17 - 00:23:23:07 in an internship and kind of growing into their career path. 00:23:23:07 - 00:23:26:20 So just kind of goes to show the importance. 00:23:26:20 - 00:23:29:01 It's on 2024 internship trends. 00:23:29:01 - 00:23:32:13 So yeah, if I were to ask skill development 00:23:32:13 - 00:23:35:23 in your interns, for sure. 00:23:36:00 - 00:23:38:10 So kind of going off, 00:23:38:10 - 00:23:43:05 I know you said that interns are usually they have that hunger 00:23:43:05 - 00:23:47:05 to develop new skills and to do great work. 00:23:47:07 - 00:23:49:22 What other qualities and skills 00:23:49:22 - 00:23:53:11 should leaders really help develop in their interns? 00:23:53:13 - 00:23:57:22 Yeah, you know, I think now that this is necessarily a skill, 00:23:57:22 - 00:24:03:07 but helping them understand, even just like workplace one on one and 00:24:03:09 - 00:24:05:20 terminology and just like 00:24:05:20 - 00:24:09:02 business lines, I just, I think sometimes we all are like, 00:24:09:06 - 00:24:10:11 yeah, we all know what this means, 00:24:10:11 - 00:24:14:05 like end of day and the business day, even just things like that. 00:24:14:07 - 00:24:19:08 But as far as skills, we've seen a lot of emphasis 00:24:19:08 - 00:24:23:13 on communication and I think that goes just beyond interns as well. 00:24:23:13 - 00:24:27:21 In a hybrid remote workplace where people are working in different time 00:24:27:21 - 00:24:30:21 zones and all of that, I think communicate and even just different generations. 00:24:30:21 - 00:24:35:04 We've seen a lot of conversation about what does good communication look like. 00:24:35:04 - 00:24:37:19 And so I think that's a big one. 00:24:37:19 - 00:24:42:03 I think bringing ideas to management is a big one. 00:24:42:05 - 00:24:45:08 I think interns have a lot of great ideas, 00:24:45:08 - 00:24:49:19 and I think what we've seen over the years as interns 00:24:49:21 - 00:24:52:22 are finding the balance of I'm trying to make an impact 00:24:52:22 - 00:24:56:06 and a name for myself and showing the great ideas I have. 00:24:56:08 - 00:24:59:18 But also I don't want to overstep and talk in meetings, 00:24:59:23 - 00:25:03:02 you know, that I was invited to to listen and learn 00:25:03:02 - 00:25:06:06 and like, where am I allowed to speak up and where am I not? 00:25:06:06 - 00:25:09:18 Or and whether they call it imposter syndrome, where you're like, 00:25:09:18 - 00:25:12:02 I don't know if my idea is good enough and am I really willing 00:25:12:02 - 00:25:13:24 to speak up in front of a whole group of people? 00:25:13:24 - 00:25:17:21 And so I think kind of helping balance and navigate some of that stuff 00:25:17:21 - 00:25:22:08 and helping build some of that confidence is huge for them. 00:25:22:14 - 00:25:27:01 We've seen an emphasis on problem solving project management. 00:25:27:01 - 00:25:29:20 Some of that 00:25:29:22 - 00:25:30:24 is really big too. 00:25:30:24 - 00:25:36:20 So I think all of the skills that you're developing in your employees and 00:25:36:22 - 00:25:40:22 your leaders, I think that really they're just trying to learn and grow. 00:25:40:24 - 00:25:45:21 So however you can help them in that way and really understand what they're good at 00:25:45:21 - 00:25:46:15 and what other skills 00:25:46:15 - 00:25:50:20 they need to continue to develop is just a conversation worth having. 00:25:50:20 - 00:25:53:04 And the ones that interns are really open to. 00:25:53:04 - 00:25:57:24 And they I mean, I think we see this in all shapes of business, of people. 00:25:57:24 - 00:26:01:01 People like to learn about themselves and talk about their experiences 00:26:01:01 - 00:26:05:19 and whatever you can do to help them learn and grow is a big piece of it. 00:26:05:21 - 00:26:07:05 Absolutely. 00:26:07:05 - 00:26:12:16 And for interns, I would always go back to that quote, 00:26:12:18 - 00:26:16:03 higher character train skill. 00:26:16:05 - 00:26:20:05 Just I don't know, I think it's a good reminder that 00:26:20:07 - 00:26:25:17 when you're hiring an intern, they might not have all of the skills that 00:26:25:19 - 00:26:28:12 you may want them to have at the end of the internship, or 00:26:28:12 - 00:26:34:18 they might not have all of the knowledge coming into it because it probably is 00:26:34:20 - 00:26:38:05 one of their first really 00:26:38:07 - 00:26:39:18 first jobs. 00:26:39:18 - 00:26:42:23 So I think that code, your character 00:26:43:00 - 00:26:47:04 train for Skill, is just always a good reminder too, 00:26:47:06 - 00:26:51:12 because you can train for skill and so like that. 00:26:51:14 - 00:26:54:14 So going on here, in what ways does 00:26:54:15 - 00:26:58:12 your organization support interns in building professional networks 00:26:58:12 - 00:27:03:15 and how does really networking contribute to development as emerging leaders? 00:27:03:17 - 00:27:05:12 Networking is huge. 00:27:05:12 - 00:27:05:24 Yeah. 00:27:05:24 - 00:27:07:11 I mean, I think there's a lot of ways 00:27:07:11 - 00:27:11:19 that organizations can support  professional development for interns. 00:27:11:19 - 00:27:12:00 You know, 00:27:12:00 - 00:27:15:22 I think there is the traditional trainings in the classroom that can be done. 00:27:15:22 - 00:27:21:08 There's a lot of great modules online that companies can use, you know, 00:27:21:09 - 00:27:23:01 LinkedIn, Learning's, all of that great stuff. 00:27:23:01 - 00:27:24:16 Of course, memory has training as well. 00:27:24:16 - 00:27:28:14 But I also think, you know, when I look back 00:27:28:14 - 00:27:31:14 at my professional development and my growth over my career, 00:27:31:20 - 00:27:35:17 I think a lot of the most influential pieces that have helped me grow 00:27:35:19 - 00:27:40:06 are being part of organizational projects, working with cross-functional teams, 00:27:40:06 - 00:27:44:00 working with people that are different than myself and think differently. 00:27:44:00 - 00:27:47:20 And then eventually growing into leading some of those projects. 00:27:47:20 - 00:27:52:06 So what what projects can interns lead that maybe, maybe they 00:27:52:06 - 00:27:54:24 not on your to do list for a while and you just haven't gotten to it. 00:27:54:24 - 00:28:00:01 So any start with anything that they do is better than not doing it at all. 00:28:00:03 - 00:28:05:05 So I think some of that project work, job shadowing, 00:28:05:07 - 00:28:09:18 being able to just network and learn from other professionals is huge. 00:28:09:18 - 00:28:14:19 We offer an intern leadership program at Emory for our members 00:28:14:19 - 00:28:20:02 and we really focus on that professional development and networking because it 00:28:20:04 - 00:28:23:17 it really helps them learn from other people, 00:28:23:17 - 00:28:27:12 learn about different industries, learn about business as a whole, and learn 00:28:27:12 - 00:28:32:01 with other learn from other leaders around the entire country. 00:28:32:01 - 00:28:35:07 And just I think for the interns, some of their biggest takeaways 00:28:35:07 - 00:28:40:08 is just hearing the journey that leaders have gone on to get to where they are. 00:28:40:08 - 00:28:48:01 And I think by the end of the summer, they truly realized that most leadership, 00:28:48:03 - 00:28:50:17 I guess, journeys are not linear. 00:28:50:17 - 00:28:53:10 It's not it's not a ladder. You don't just go straight up. 00:28:53:10 - 00:28:56:10 But there's a lot of you know, I think it's so funny 00:28:56:10 - 00:28:59:10 when we do the CEO panels, it's like half of them 00:28:59:16 - 00:29:04:07 started in a completely different field or industry than where they got to today. 00:29:04:07 - 00:29:06:10 And I think that's really promising for interns. 00:29:06:10 - 00:29:09:10 And I think it just really helps them relate and see 00:29:09:15 - 00:29:11:24 almost inspire them as well. 00:29:11:24 - 00:29:14:24 Yeah, I think just going off the networking pieces, 00:29:15:03 - 00:29:17:02 when people network correctly, 00:29:17:02 - 00:29:20:22 they really get further in their career. 00:29:20:24 - 00:29:22:20 And again, it's that inspiration. 00:29:22:20 - 00:29:24:17 But then what are you doing to make that impression 00:29:24:17 - 00:29:29:24 after and connect with them and our burgeoning team earlier today? 00:29:29:24 - 00:29:34:00 And they always say they're like most people, after your first job, 00:29:34:00 - 00:29:35:24 you're going to get most of your jobs after that. 00:29:35:24 - 00:29:38:16 By who you know and who you've networked with. 00:29:38:16 - 00:29:39:24 And, you know, 00:29:39:24 - 00:29:43:05 we do stuff during our internship program to help them, you know, 00:29:43:05 - 00:29:46:17 just even build up their LinkedIn resume, their LinkedIn profile, I'm sorry. 00:29:46:20 - 00:29:50:13 And just so they can connect with people that they meet throughout the summer. 00:29:50:13 - 00:29:53:15 And, you know, and ten years from now, it might be like, my gosh. 00:29:53:15 - 00:29:58:11 So if you bowlers connect into this person, like, how can I reach out? 00:29:58:11 - 00:30:02:01 So it's just it's just crazy how how small of a world it is. 00:30:02:01 - 00:30:06:21 So I think the professional development and networking is huge for interns 00:30:06:21 - 00:30:10:14 and I think any audience that HR And the hiring managers 00:30:10:14 - 00:30:14:23 can do to help them with that is is super appreciated by the interns, 00:30:14:23 - 00:30:18:00 especially with the mentorship more 00:30:18:00 - 00:30:21:08 so than ever, especially in a hybrid world. 00:30:21:10 - 00:30:24:21 We hear from interns asking how do i find a mentor 00:30:24:23 - 00:30:29:13 that can help me grow and, you know, say my name in a room full of opportunities. 00:30:29:13 - 00:30:33:06 And I always love that quote about mentors, but that's not necessarily 00:30:33:06 - 00:30:34:09 always your manager. 00:30:34:09 - 00:30:38:05 And in such a short period of time, how do I get an actual mentor 00:30:38:05 - 00:30:40:16 that can see my skill set and help me grow in my career? 00:30:40:16 - 00:30:44:09 And I think just networking is a piece of it. 00:30:44:11 - 00:30:45:05 Absolutely. 00:30:45:05 - 00:30:49:04 And you talked about our MRA's intern leadership program 00:30:49:04 - 00:30:53:04 and being able to network with leaders and ceos. 00:30:53:04 - 00:30:57:09 HR Professionals and young professionals too. 00:30:57:11 - 00:31:00:16 But also coming from an intern perspective, 00:31:00:18 - 00:31:03:17 that program is so beneficial in the way 00:31:03:17 - 00:31:06:17 that you're also networking with 00:31:06:18 - 00:31:13:00 80 to over 100 other interns who are practically in the same boat as you. 00:31:13:00 - 00:31:18:06 So that just that's a whole other benefit that we could talk about 00:31:18:06 - 00:31:22:23 for an hour having 82 00:31:22:23 - 00:31:26:13 over 100 people that you can talk to every day, 00:31:26:13 - 00:31:31:16 kind of see what they're going through, ask them questions 00:31:31:18 - 00:31:32:18 and they can. 00:31:32:18 - 00:31:35:13 I know I'm so connected with interns 00:31:35:13 - 00:31:38:21 from a couple of years ago, and I don't know. 00:31:38:21 - 00:31:43:01 I've really appreciated that from the intern program. 00:31:43:03 - 00:31:43:21 Yeah, because 00:31:43:21 - 00:31:47:00 networking connections, even for my internships too. 00:31:47:00 - 00:31:52:04 It's yeah, I still talk to some of them, the friendships and future, 00:31:52:06 - 00:31:54:22 maybe even colleagues again, and networking connections. 00:31:54:22 - 00:32:00:03 Yeah, Well, and it's just interesting to see what they're up to because 00:32:00:05 - 00:32:03:13 you might have two completely different roles at different organizations. 00:32:03:13 - 00:32:05:19 But it's interesting to be like, Hey, what are you doing this week? 00:32:05:19 - 00:32:07:12 What are you working on this week? 00:32:07:12 - 00:32:09:00 that's cool. I'm working on that. 00:32:09:00 - 00:32:11:20 So you can kind of connect that way too, which is awesome. 00:32:11:20 - 00:32:14:02 Even just brand awareness from company to company. 00:32:14:02 - 00:32:16:21 Yeah, definitely. 00:32:16:21 - 00:32:19:13 And we talked a little bit about mentorships, 00:32:19:13 - 00:32:24:13 but is there any other mentor kind of pieces of advice that you want 00:32:24:13 - 00:32:31:00 to give in how that kind of ropes into the success of an internship program? 00:32:31:02 - 00:32:34:04 Yeah, I think just really highlighting 00:32:34:06 - 00:32:38:11 that mentorship, that question about how you can find a mentor 00:32:38:11 - 00:32:40:05 that's right for you and how to find a mentor 00:32:40:05 - 00:32:44:09 that's not your manager at your company during an internship came up so many times 00:32:44:09 - 00:32:45:05 last year. 00:32:45:05 - 00:32:50:24 So if you can go in to an internship program, say to the intern or interns, 00:32:51:01 - 00:32:53:23 we have a dedicated mentor to you. 00:32:53:23 - 00:32:55:23 I think that will be huge. 00:32:55:23 - 00:32:59:21 And I think even part of it again goes up with the manager, 00:32:59:23 - 00:33:03:03 you know, having the tools to be successful until you this intern, 00:33:03:09 - 00:33:04:18 I think same with the mentors. 00:33:04:18 - 00:33:06:12 If you can provide them with 00:33:06:12 - 00:33:10:10 maybe some training and some guidance and maybe even like a coaching certificate 00:33:10:10 - 00:33:14:20 or what their expectations are and how they can help interns. 00:33:14:20 - 00:33:16:06 I think 00:33:16:08 - 00:33:19:08 having that common 00:33:19:08 - 00:33:22:06 playing ground, I guess for mentors would be huge 00:33:22:06 - 00:33:24:23 and they can really help the interns be successful. 00:33:24:23 - 00:33:27:24 And I think that's just another really close networking connection 00:33:27:24 - 00:33:31:08 that the interns will walk away with throughout the summer. 00:33:31:08 - 00:33:36:15 So but I would also be strategic and you know who you choose as a mentor. 00:33:36:17 - 00:33:39:18 But we have seen some companies that have used some emerging leaders 00:33:39:18 - 00:33:43:12 and some young professionals that are looking to grow their leadership skills 00:33:43:14 - 00:33:46:10 who maybe aren't quite ready to be a supervisor or manager yet. 00:33:46:10 - 00:33:51:12 But this is a great way to kind of mentor and coach and grow your own skills. 00:33:51:12 - 00:33:55:24 So just think about that with your own emerging leaders within your organization 00:33:56:01 - 00:33:57:04 for sure. 00:33:57:04 - 00:34:00:12 Well, do you have any examples of talking 00:34:00:12 - 00:34:04:21 about more projects and more hands on work now? 00:34:04:23 - 00:34:07:13 any examples of projects or initiatives 00:34:07:13 - 00:34:11:10 that are designed to kind of challenge interns 00:34:11:10 - 00:34:15:05 or any of those like structured projects that you would recommend 00:34:15:07 - 00:34:20:01 giving to interns to let them showcase their leadership potential? 00:34:20:03 - 00:34:22:23 Yeah, I honestly, I'd have to look at a list 00:34:22:23 - 00:34:25:18 because I, I always every summer I'm like, Wow, 00:34:25:18 - 00:34:29:17 that is such a great search project for interns and 00:34:29:19 - 00:34:31:20 but I'll just share a couple off the top of my head. 00:34:31:20 - 00:34:36:23 I think directly from the HR Perspective, those that have had HR Interns 00:34:36:23 - 00:34:42:11 will do like exit interviews and they'll do 00:34:42:13 - 00:34:46:07 like they'll develop a whole structured program about an intern program. 00:34:46:07 - 00:34:49:17 They can even build out the mentorship program. 00:34:49:19 - 00:34:53:12 And just generally speaking, I think look at your own to do list 00:34:53:12 - 00:34:56:12 and see, like, what projects are like strategic initiatives. 00:34:56:15 - 00:34:59:12 Have you been thinking about a know your team needs to get to 00:34:59:12 - 00:35:02:13 that you really haven't had time for and let them run with it? 00:35:02:13 - 00:35:06:12 Like I said, it's if it's just sitting on your desk, it's not going anywhere. 00:35:06:12 - 00:35:09:22 So you at least have some momentum to keep it moving forward 00:35:09:22 - 00:35:14:14 and having someone bring fresh ideas and perspectives to it. 00:35:14:16 - 00:35:15:00 I saw 00:35:15:00 - 00:35:18:21 one company that knew they needed to implement 00:35:18:21 - 00:35:22:22 a strategy within their organization and there they were. 00:35:22:22 - 00:35:24:21 They had a smaller internship program. 00:35:24:21 - 00:35:26:15 I think they had four or five interns. 00:35:26:15 - 00:35:30:03 I don't recall off the top of my head, but they had that group of interns work 00:35:30:03 - 00:35:34:05 together to build a new strategy internally at their organization, 00:35:34:07 - 00:35:38:18 including which included obviously some research, but also understanding 00:35:38:18 - 00:35:42:03 like what an employee resource group looks like, how we get one started, 00:35:42:03 - 00:35:45:03 who is going to lead that, what is the communication look like? 00:35:45:05 - 00:35:48:23 And they built out a whole new program for their organization 00:35:49:00 - 00:35:52:01 and then they presented it to their executive team. 00:35:52:01 - 00:35:55:04 So all of their CEO and all their senior leadership 00:35:55:04 - 00:35:58:10 and they were able to go forward and start to implement this. 00:35:58:10 - 00:36:01:06 So just a huge 00:36:01:08 - 00:36:03:21 kudos to them for doing that and running with that. 00:36:03:21 - 00:36:05:06 That's not an easy task. 00:36:05:06 - 00:36:06:11 And obviously they had guidance 00:36:06:11 - 00:36:10:07 along the way, but I think that's a great project to show. 00:36:10:09 - 00:36:15:06 And then actually had  there was one I'm picturing 00:36:15:06 - 00:36:19:06 that they documented all of their standard operating procedures 00:36:19:08 - 00:36:23:14 and then along the way they were asked to one, you have to document it, 00:36:23:14 - 00:36:27:09 but then to come back with recommendations for efficiencies in the process 00:36:27:09 - 00:36:32:10 and a lot of times even documenting it, that's really curious. 00:36:32:10 - 00:36:35:16 Wanting to learn interns is asking why, like why do we do it this way 00:36:35:16 - 00:36:39:11 and not in a negative way, but just like they were curious and then, 00:36:39:13 - 00:36:44:17 you know, if you as a manager or whoever is doing the teaching, 00:36:44:19 - 00:36:48:20 isn't able to answer that, why I think it's a good, you know, sign. 00:36:48:20 - 00:36:51:12 Maybe we need to look at our process and think of some other way. 00:36:51:12 - 00:36:54:02 And so I think even just being able to showcase 00:36:54:02 - 00:36:57:21 the efficiencies that have been put on because of someone just documenting 00:36:57:21 - 00:37:01:07 standard operating procedures is another really cool project. 00:37:01:07 - 00:37:03:02 So those are a few off the top of my head. 00:37:03:02 - 00:37:07:02 But again, I would take a look at your own task lesson and see 00:37:07:08 - 00:37:12:10 what what you're hoping to get done and let them run with it. 00:37:12:12 - 00:37:15:00 Yeah, and I think another 00:37:15:00 - 00:37:18:08 great big project or kind of stretch project 00:37:18:08 - 00:37:23:01 that any company can do at any internship too, would just be looking 00:37:23:01 - 00:37:26:06 at your own company from an audit perspective, 00:37:26:07 - 00:37:29:07 like auditing the website or doing an 00:37:29:07 - 00:37:32:13 in the analysis of the website or for example, 00:37:32:13 - 00:37:35:19 I know I did a competitive analysis when I was an intern, 00:37:35:19 - 00:37:40:02 which was a big project, but it was, I think, a great opportunity 00:37:40:02 - 00:37:44:12 and a good big project to work on throughout the summer too. 00:37:44:14 - 00:37:47:09 Also gave me a chance to work with some great leaders 00:37:47:09 - 00:37:51:13 and kind of show it off to our executive team to. 00:37:51:15 - 00:37:56:00 So yeah, I would, I would say that that's an easy project, 00:37:56:00 - 00:37:59:19 but it's something that all companies can do and something 00:37:59:19 - 00:38:05:07 that can improve your website, improve your organization as a whole. 00:38:05:09 - 00:38:07:02 So we talked 00:38:07:02 - 00:38:11:00 about kind of performance management a little bit, but 00:38:11:02 - 00:38:15:06 how do you what are some ways to assess the performance of interns 00:38:15:06 - 00:38:19:10 during and at the end of the program 00:38:19:12 - 00:38:23:01 and what mechanisms do you have in place for providing 00:38:23:01 - 00:38:27:09 that constructive feedback to help them grow? 00:38:27:11 - 00:38:29:20 Yeah, I think feedback is so important 00:38:29:20 - 00:38:33:13 and that's something that we really hear from interns of. 00:38:33:15 - 00:38:39:00 I think again, this goes to does your manager know how to manage interns? 00:38:39:00 - 00:38:43:14 But feedback is something we hear and managers typically are like, well, 00:38:43:19 - 00:38:45:21 if they're not hearing from me, they're doing a good job. 00:38:45:21 - 00:38:49:02 And we have weekly check ins and, you know, we just kind of talk 00:38:49:02 - 00:38:51:18 through their projects and any challenges they have. 00:38:51:18 - 00:38:57:06 But I think interns want to know honestly, daily and speak to this 00:38:57:06 - 00:39:00:04 from your own experience, what like are they on the right track? 00:39:00:04 - 00:39:03:20 Are they doing a good job, really doing a bad job and tell them right away? 00:39:03:20 - 00:39:05:05 I think, 00:39:05:07 - 00:39:07:19 you know, people don't want to hear this, but I would honestly 00:39:07:19 - 00:39:10:19 check in with your interns at least once a day, if not more than that. 00:39:10:24 - 00:39:14:13 I think, you know, a week, a lot of things happen in a week. 00:39:14:13 - 00:39:15:21 And especially, 00:39:15:21 - 00:39:19:11 you know, if you look at like a ten week internship program that's like ten times 00:39:19:11 - 00:39:20:11 you're meeting with your intern 00:39:20:11 - 00:39:22:13 and think about how much they're doing in a day, 00:39:22:13 - 00:39:24:13 how many people they're trying to interact with. 00:39:24:13 - 00:39:27:06 We hear interns are 00:39:27:06 - 00:39:29:22 not always, but sometimes they don't like to be bored. 00:39:29:22 - 00:39:35:03 So if you're only meeting with them once a week, how are they feeling? 00:39:35:03 - 00:39:36:23 40 hours of their work week? 00:39:36:23 - 00:39:41:24 Are they truly busy and gaining knowledge and skills? 00:39:41:24 - 00:39:47:05 Every all of the all of the week and having those great experiences. So 00:39:47:07 - 00:39:49:20 I know managers sometimes are like, 00:39:49:20 - 00:39:52:20 I don't want to tell them they're doing a good job for just doing their job, 00:39:53:01 - 00:39:55:14 but I think if they're not hearing anything, 00:39:55:14 - 00:39:57:22 they really just don't know where they stand. 00:39:57:22 - 00:40:00:18 So I recommend talking to them every day. 00:40:00:18 - 00:40:01:17 And I know. 00:40:01:17 - 00:40:05:21 So my favorite example from you was like, Well, give me something negative. 00:40:05:21 - 00:40:09:07 It's always so positive and it's like, Wow, you're doing a great job. 00:40:09:07 - 00:40:12:05 And it's like, there's got to be something I can improve on. 00:40:12:05 - 00:40:14:03 And you're not the only intern that has said that. 00:40:14:03 - 00:40:17:23 And I completely agree that even though you are doing 00:40:17:23 - 00:40:22:18 a great job, are there even skills that maybe like 00:40:22:20 - 00:40:25:18 that aren't being shown in this project, but maybe in other projects 00:40:25:18 - 00:40:26:15 that I could develop? 00:40:26:15 - 00:40:28:07 So I think being very specific 00:40:28:07 - 00:40:31:14 in that feedback and very intentional is very important. 00:40:31:16 - 00:40:32:10 Absolutely. 00:40:32:10 - 00:40:35:18 And to piggyback off that, I would say something 00:40:35:18 - 00:40:39:13 that I love that you did when I was an intern. 00:40:39:15 - 00:40:43:05 You mentioned interns don't like being bored and that's very true 00:40:43:05 - 00:40:45:15 because that can make or break an internship. 00:40:45:15 - 00:40:48:21 I think in what you did that really helped 00:40:48:21 - 00:40:53:07 was checking in each day, like how was your workload going? 00:40:53:07 - 00:40:55:02 Do you need some more projects? 00:40:55:02 - 00:40:57:03 Do you want to sit in on this meeting? 00:40:57:03 - 00:41:01:05 So it's like always giving me an opportunity to be doing something 00:41:01:05 - 00:41:02:19 new each and every day. 00:41:02:19 - 00:41:06:12 So I think, like you said, that communication with an intern 00:41:06:12 - 00:41:11:08 is vital for an internship program to really succeed 00:41:11:10 - 00:41:18:10 and to make sure that your intern is enjoying the work that they're doing 00:41:18:12 - 00:41:20:02 and that they have an opportunity to, 00:41:20:02 - 00:41:23:21 like, openly communicate, communicate that with their manager. 00:41:23:21 - 00:41:29:01 If they aren't filling their 40 hours a week or have finished a project 00:41:29:01 - 00:41:33:12 and don't know what to do after that, well, it also helps just reprioritize. 00:41:33:12 - 00:41:36:18 I think I chuckle and this is not the best way to do it, 00:41:36:24 - 00:41:38:21 but we gave you like five pages of projects 00:41:38:21 - 00:41:42:18 that we want you to work on throughout the summer and I don't. 00:41:42:20 - 00:41:45:21 And in the best way possible, I don't think I think you go through 00:41:45:21 - 00:41:48:21 one page or whatever, because so many other things came up 00:41:48:22 - 00:41:53:03 throughout the summer that it was kind of like if we came to you in the morning 00:41:53:03 - 00:41:56:20 and we were like, Hey, we have this cool project, and you were like, 00:41:56:22 - 00:41:58:09 but I'm working on X, Y and Z. 00:41:58:09 - 00:41:59:07 We could be like, 00:41:59:07 - 00:42:03:12 yeah, I finish, I X, don't worry about Y, and then Z can wait till next week. 00:42:03:14 - 00:42:04:22 But it was able to have us 00:42:04:22 - 00:42:09:03 give us a chance to really learn what you like if you new opportunities, 00:42:09:03 - 00:42:14:14 but also just to prioritize who you aren't just taking on things without 00:42:14:16 - 00:42:15:00 feeling 00:42:15:00 - 00:42:18:00 like you had the bandwidth to do it all and be successful. 00:42:18:00 - 00:42:20:02 Yeah, I'm definitely not. 00:42:20:02 - 00:42:22:20 That will just give you another project management skill. 00:42:22:20 - 00:42:24:12 All right, There you go. 00:42:24:12 - 00:42:29:19 But just as we wrap up your career, any any lasting thoughts 00:42:29:19 - 00:42:30:15 that you want to share? 00:42:30:15 - 00:42:33:10 Actually, I'm going to turn it back to you. 00:42:33:10 - 00:42:35:09 Just you know, you've been involved with the intern 00:42:35:09 - 00:42:39:03 leadership program for a couple of years and you obviously were an intern and. 00:42:39:03 - 00:42:42:21 You still talk with, you know, a couple of interns from previous years. 00:42:42:22 - 00:42:45:22 So just anything anytime to you is here to employers 00:42:45:22 - 00:42:53:02 or maybe even hiring managers about creating a great memorable experience? 00:42:53:04 - 00:42:58:15 I would just say the big takeaway, I think just from today to 00:42:58:16 - 00:43:01:16 is that an effective internship 00:43:01:20 - 00:43:05:09 benefits both the intern and the organization. 00:43:05:10 - 00:43:08:19 I think that's always something to just keep in the back of your head 00:43:08:19 - 00:43:12:11 that don't just have an intern to have an intern. 00:43:12:11 - 00:43:16:12 Like like bring us back to the first question there. 00:43:16:12 - 00:43:19:18 The planning process and the planning stage. 00:43:19:20 - 00:43:23:02 And of course, you can add on to this because you were part of that 00:43:23:02 - 00:43:23:24 planning stage. 00:43:23:24 - 00:43:27:07 But I think that is the most vital 00:43:27:09 - 00:43:32:22 step in an internship program is making sure 00:43:32:24 - 00:43:35:23 you kind of have your priorities and your goals 00:43:35:23 - 00:43:41:08 and just the value of having an intern that you have that confidently set. 00:43:41:10 - 00:43:44:24 Well, for an intern comes in and you're not trying to figure out 00:43:45:01 - 00:43:48:06 an intern role while they're there. 00:43:48:08 - 00:43:52:09 No, I think that's that is absolutely crucial. 00:43:52:09 - 00:43:55:09 And I think now that this is like the most important takeaway, but 00:43:55:09 - 00:43:58:15 something that hasn't been mentioned yet is really make sure 00:43:58:15 - 00:44:03:03 that the interns and all of the candidates that you're interviewing 00:44:03:05 - 00:44:08:01 feel like you matter and that you're part of the organization from the beginning. 00:44:08:01 - 00:44:11:24 And I think I just remember when we were interviewing candidates 00:44:11:24 - 00:44:13:13 from the beginning, 00:44:13:13 - 00:44:13:23 you know, 00:44:13:23 - 00:44:17:05 I think we always wanted to keep them in the loop of where they were 00:44:17:05 - 00:44:18:12 in the hiring process. 00:44:18:12 - 00:44:21:05 And I mean, I think we made a decision very quickly. 00:44:21:05 - 00:44:25:11 And as soon as we made a decision, we we let everybody know. 00:44:25:11 - 00:44:30:08 And, you know, I think even for those that we didn't end up hiring, 00:44:30:10 - 00:44:32:19 we still wanted to have a great relationship with them 00:44:32:19 - 00:44:35:07 because you never know with opportunities in the future. 00:44:35:07 - 00:44:37:20 And we didn't want them to feel like, it's just an intern. 00:44:37:20 - 00:44:39:09 We'll get back to them in a couple of weeks. 00:44:39:09 - 00:44:41:22 And I think the 00:44:41:24 - 00:44:44:04 for us, it was important that everyone knew 00:44:44:04 - 00:44:46:17 that this is a critical rol

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode: I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference.  This discussion is with two speakers who did a joint session, Dr. Wayne Fisher and Dr. David Matheson, whose session is titled “Improving decision quality during stage gate reviews.”  Recent findings from PDMA's Outstanding Corporate Innovator award program indicate that highly innovative companies follow some form of stage-and-gate process, including agile-stage-gate, to balance risk and rigor in the development of new products and services. Also, a recent Society of Decision Professionals poll suggests that innovation decisions are a rich area for improvement. We will discuss gate decision best practices with Wayne and David. This episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise, and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Description: Embark on a journey of self-discovery and professional growth, where we unravel the intricacies of modern-day career development and its pivotal role in personal and organizational success.  Resources: Developing Career Paths Resource  Learning & Development  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Amanda Mosteller  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:44:01 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. All right, Well, hi, everybody, and thanks for joining us today. And today's podcast, we're going to be talking about career pathing. And I'm joined by Amanda Mosteller, who is MRA's director of talent development and organizational development. So we really have a true career expert with us today. So I welcome you back, Amanda. You always do such a great job. 00:00:44:01 - 00:01:12:21 Unknown So I'm excited for this topic. Thanks for having me back and I love this topic as well. So, absolutely. And I know I talked a little bit about this before, but I know crew passing is not just for younger emerging leaders who have just started out in the workforce. It's really for everybody. So I guess kind of diving in then what is career path and exactly in why would you say it's important for an organization? 00:01:12:23 - 00:01:54:17 Unknown Yeah. So career pathing is typically quite what you would think. It would sound like taking a role or a career from entry into the organization and mapping out the path within that career within your organization. Why it's important is because it gives people a roadmap to see where they can go. Whether I'm coming in new to my career, as you were mentioning, or just newer to the organization, I might be popping in mid-level, but just seeing what is the opportunity for me in this role, in this space, in this organization? 00:01:54:17 - 00:02:22:21 Unknown What does that pathway look like? Is it mapped out? Is it defined? And can somebody walk me through it? Helps initially engage folks in not only their current space, but seeing the potential. I was just talking with my mother the other day about how I had 27 and a half years left before retirement. All right. Almost there. So close. 00:02:22:23 - 00:02:47:03 Unknown And I said to her, gosh, 27 and a half years, that feels like a long time. And if I thought in our organization, those 27 and a half years are in this role I'm in right now and there's nowhere else to go, no other way to grow my skills or move eventually into other spaces and roles within the organization. 00:02:47:04 - 00:03:19:16 Unknown That really becomes a defeating lot regardless of how much you love an organization. And I love being a part of me very much. But 27 and a half years in one role feels like a long time right? So that's why it's so important, that opportunity to look forward in your future and see evolution for yourself happening within an organization creates that that engagement and that increased retention and that connection to the company. 00:03:19:18 - 00:03:51:10 Unknown Yeah, for sure. This is something I think Jim Morgan talks about in some of his talent reports. I feel like speaking speaking for like a younger generation employee, surely, like when you're getting a job, like you talk about your current role, but it's like the career path is just as important as like this job that you're getting. So, I don't know, just talking to friends, I know some of them are like, Hey, if they don't kind of map out where I'm going to be in the next couple of years, I'm not interested. 00:03:51:11 - 00:04:24:10 Unknown So I know how important it is now. And I know you'll get to kind of like the evolution of it, how it's changed. But I just I've seen like a very big emphasis on career passing and making sure that employers talk about it right away in the interview process even. That's such a good point. In doing interviews in the past six months, I have noticed an increase in people asking me instead of my saying, Where do you see yourself in the next 3 to 5 years? 00:04:24:10 - 00:04:52:04 Unknown That standard question and most people, if they're any type of practice to interview viewers, they are with your organization. But if I have them turning around asking me what's the growth opportunity for this type of role within your organization and to get to where you're mentioning where we'll go during our conversation today, questions changing around what's the growth opportunity in your department? 00:04:52:06 - 00:05:20:16 Unknown That's not the question as much anymore as what's my growth opportunity in your organization? Meaning your company. So within the company you work for, not just your department. And that's that's telling that people are asking an interviewer is they're asking the hiring manager and they're changing their wording. And that's on purpose again, too. So then can you kind of talk about how career passing has evolved throughout the years? 00:05:20:18 - 00:05:51:21 Unknown And then why is that evolution really crucial for both employers and employees? Well, get to it like now. So. So traditionally, a career path. As an example for a sales professional, you come into an organization and you might be working foot in the door. Well, at lead generation and lead uncovering and then handing those leads off to a salesperson. 00:05:52:02 - 00:06:14:09 Unknown And that salesperson might have sales engineers come in depending on what they're selling. Eventually you become a sales manager. There might be an account executive in there where the size of territory or the size of client gets bigger and bigger. So you're getting bigger deals, eventually become a sales manager, then you become the sales director, then you become the sales VP, right? 00:06:14:14 - 00:06:56:06 Unknown Very linear career path and that is a defined career path. All within one type of job, role building on one another. That's the traditional career path. How it has evolved is people no longer think of a career path as a linear within this same type of job role. I mentioned that question changing the wording of the question changing, and that's because people are starting to say what skills and abilities can your organization provide me for myself that I can apply as I grow in my career? 00:06:56:08 - 00:07:25:06 Unknown People we know individuals coming to an organization and staying for 15, 20, 30 years is less and less common. Regardless of how amazing your culture is, regardless of how engaging and supportive and development focused your organization might be. And that's because if I'm sitting and waiting to become that leader or that manager or that next role, that means I'm waiting for somebody else to choose to leave in. 00:07:25:06 - 00:07:55:20 Unknown That can take a very long time, especially the higher up in an organization you go. So people are looking more for what knowledge, skills and abilities can you give me? Not necessarily just in one space, but cross-functionally in your organization? What that means is, as people are asking that question and that question is changing, instead of what is the growth opportunity in your department to what is the growth opportunity in your organization? 00:07:55:22 - 00:08:40:16 Unknown I might come in the door as a sales individual and skills that I'm looking for around maintaining multiple projects, time management skills, influencing for others, maybe owning a big opportunity within my organization and getting buy in across all groups. Those are all skills that can translate to any job role. So what I might find as I come in as a lead generation expert in a sales space and within two years I'm moving over to the marketing department because I'm starting to hone what does the buyer look for and how do I communicate that to the buyer effectively? 00:08:40:16 - 00:09:06:18 Unknown And marketing does a lot of that stuff also. So as I'm honing those skills, an opportunity in marketing is opened up and I might look over there to start building that skill. Now I have uncovering needs and I have really translating to what the buyer is looking for through my marketing expertise and then an opportunity in our bigger project management group opens up some of the skills I've been looking for. 00:09:06:18 - 00:09:49:11 Unknown If I want to become a leader someday does include managing multiple irons in the fire. I need to be able to do that. So I'll move over to that role because now I'm continuing to develop these knowledge, skills and abilities that eventually will get me into leadership positions. Now look at all these different spaces. I've been within one company, so when we talk about creating this modern evolved way of looking at career pathing, talk about engagement and retention, people aren't waiting till the next account executive leaves so that an account manager can become an account executive so that a lead generator could become an account manager. 00:09:49:13 - 00:10:18:18 Unknown You're doing a lot of waiting. That's what you're relying on your organization to do. And so looking at this evolution of career passing instead on where do you want to be in five years? Where do you want to be in ten years? Do you want to move into leadership? What types of skills do you want to grow in an eye as your organization can help identify opportunities for you that leverage those skills and will develop those skills in you? 00:10:18:20 - 00:10:49:14 Unknown You've created a different kind of career path that will really build your bench. I mean, now you have folks really learning all these different areas of your business, creating lots of effective, impactful needed skills as they move up and a well-rounded employee base, of course, THRIVEs a really effective and impactful organization. So what is modern day career path thing? 00:10:49:15 - 00:11:22:04 Unknown What is it evolve to? Not linear is what you really spiderweb it in a way. And yeah, focusing on transferable skills. Why is it crucial? For the same reasons. Everything else that we talk about in terms of development and culture and building your bench and growth is crucial. It's it's engagement for your employees, which creates high, effective, high, impactful workforces to THRIVE your business's success. 00:11:22:06 - 00:11:47:17 Unknown Yeah, that's a great point. And I feel like they've even started started the whole career passing thing, even on like when you're an intern, I know some intern programs. It's now not just focused on the type of internship you have. Maybe you're marketing intern, but they're putting you through all different departments so that you can start to see what the organization is as a whole. 00:11:47:17 - 00:12:21:06 Unknown And then you're also gaining skills from each of those departments. But your focus is a marketing term, but later on, maybe when you're applying for jobs, that's when you can apply what you've learned in the other departments. Kind of like what you said, the universal, universal transferable skills. So that leads me to another question on can you give any examples of how individuals can really assess those skills and interests and even identify them? 00:12:21:06 - 00:12:44:20 Unknown How do they know that? Yeah, So first it takes some self-reflection when you get asked that question of where do you want to be in five years, you better know the answer. Where do you want to be? If the answer is not a people leader, that's important to know because that's a different set of skills that we could develop in somebody that you might not be interested in. 00:12:44:22 - 00:13:14:16 Unknown If it is becoming just the best of the best and in your space, then let's identify what the best of the best looks like when we talk about how can you identify it, how do you know what to work on? There are I think it's a common misnomer that a 360 tool is something that only a leader in a high level leader should go through. 00:13:14:18 - 00:13:40:18 Unknown Three sixteens or just one eighties even, but are excellent sources of identifying your hidden strengths, your blind spots and things like that. And then identifying does that apply in the job? Well, I want the job well, I have. I might have a blind spot in an area that I don't need to use right now anyway. And so I'm not going to focus my energy on developing it. 00:13:40:20 - 00:14:09:20 Unknown But to that question of where am I trying to go with my career, I might need it when I try to get to that level. So what do I start developing now? So knowing the answer to the question is number one, knowing that there are tools out there that give you a well-rounded view of just universal competencies. Two, they don't have to be related to a certain type of leadership. 00:14:09:20 - 00:14:42:13 Unknown There are tools out three, six tools out there that that we utilize that could apply just just to an individual. Then the third one is start looking around at your organization, at what roles pique your interest, have conversations with your manager and with your peers around. What about those roles? Pique your interest so that you can start to get a view of what types of skills and activities are enticing to you and engaging to you that you want to learn how to try out. 00:14:42:15 - 00:15:09:03 Unknown So what? What levels and a career do I want to achieve? That's an answer you have to figure out for yourself. It might take some self-reflection and chatting with folks within your organization to see whether that's something of interest, chatting with your folks in your network outside of your current organization to see if that's something of interest. Using some tools that aren't just self reflection. 00:15:09:03 - 00:15:30:10 Unknown Because I love to THRIVE self awareness. Very few of us are just fully self aware in all of our strengths and the way we get self-awareness is by having somebody else give us some feedback. So looking at some tools that are out there for that and then starting to chat about what job roles are interesting to you and why do shadowing. 00:15:30:12 - 00:15:56:24 Unknown Go spend a day watching that job role to see if it is interesting it c It might sound cool. We can create some really cool job titles. That doesn't mean the role is as exciting as someone might think. So figuring out what's going on in your organization role wise, asking for opportunities to shadow, and then sitting down with with your manager to say, Here's what really did interest me about that role. 00:15:56:24 - 00:16:21:04 Unknown And then that can create we can you can start to get an idea of what types of jobs interest you and therefore what skills might be transferable to those jobs within your organization or any organization. And to your point, sometimes it's hard to identify your own skills and maybe you only have a couple that you write down or couple that you're definitely self aware of. 00:16:21:06 - 00:16:41:13 Unknown But or it's like personally help me as to like just taking a step back and asking maybe it's your manager or just a peer at work. Like in some their opinion. I know I've done that before and they're like, Well, you know, you did this project and I think you did a really good job on these things during that project. 00:16:41:13 - 00:17:01:02 Unknown Maybe you should start looking at that. So I think just trying to be outside sometimes and getting their perspective helps too, when you're doing some of that stuff. Yeah, it has to be somebody that you would define as like. And I talk to folks about this a lot and I say, Don't let the phrasing throw you off, but a safe person. 00:17:01:02 - 00:17:22:01 Unknown And what I mean by that is somebody that I think I've talked about this before, but somebody that you're open to their feedback, they will be honest with you, not in a hurtful way. So they're safe from that perspective. They'll be honest with you, but they're also somebody that you value and trust their opinion so you'll be less resistant if you hear something you don't like. 00:17:22:03 - 00:17:43:05 Unknown So who are those people that you could ask how that project went and you'd be open to hearing if they didn't basically just sing your praises and tell you how amazing you are, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, kind of moving on here. We've talked about this on the podcast, but we also hear it a lot about work life balance. 00:17:43:09 - 00:18:14:01 Unknown So I'm kind of thinking about that. What advice do you have for individuals who are trying to balance their personal life and their professional goals while they're planning their career path? You know, I've I've mentioned up until now about competencies and what are the elements of that role you like and what are things that they're doing. But there are also, depending on where you want your career to go, education requirements, certification requirements. 00:18:14:01 - 00:18:44:18 Unknown I mean, if you want to be the best of the best and managing large projects, you probably want to go get your PMP certifications. So what does that look like? So connect your HR Department and and i know we're in HR Organization. And so, of course, amanda's going to say go talk to HR But for real, your HR department as all of these, you know, job descriptions which which they can look at trending lee And they also know, you know, trending. 00:18:44:18 - 00:19:15:16 Unknown Lee Okay, you're talking about being a people leader one day. Most of the time, people leaders tend to require a certain level of education requirement, not always, but most of the time they'll certainly know in their own organization what's required to see whether you have that. Are there certain certifications that are required? Because if if that's an opportunity for you that you want to this balance, they'll also know what resources are out there to help you start going down that path and how much is too much right away. 00:19:15:18 - 00:19:48:16 Unknown So we have team members that move into the learning and development space. And if you want to be the best of the best in certain things, there are certifications we would encourage you to get. Some of them are quick and easy to do certificates. Some of them are larger, you know, six month to a year and several tests certifications depending on your goals and your aspirations for your career, we might say you should go the certification route. 00:19:48:18 - 00:20:24:10 Unknown It takes a bit longer. Here are several different ways to do that, and we can talk through what makes the most sense and when starting makes the most sense for somebody. So the balance becomes what things outside of shadowing in my organization and talking to mentors and doing some development within my daily work hours, what else is out there and what else might I need to invest my time and energy into to get to the level of what I'm aspiring to get to? 00:20:24:12 - 00:21:00:24 Unknown This to the same word Moore claims in one sentence. But because some of the stuff you just can't do it work, there's just going to be some things that that would be more impactful. A pimp certification, for example, whether you want to be a project manager or not, that teaches you a lot of great organizational and executional structure and how to keep people and a large group on track and how to communicate effectively and what metrics you can utilize to not only measure success but identify budgets. 00:21:00:24 - 00:21:21:17 Unknown And there's a lot of things that would be transferable to other roles that that certification would teach you. And then going and trying it at an organization. But you can't get that through many of your own internal companies. You have to go somewhere to prep for that and take the test. So there's going to be outside work put into it. 00:21:21:17 - 00:22:18:15 Unknown So it's talk with your HR Department. They know those kinds of things. They have that knowledge. Yeah, absolutely. What we're talking about building your career path. How can individuals really align their personal values with their career choices? And why is that alignment really important for long term satisfaction? This is where i always encourage folks, excuse me, to really lean on their network, whether it is an internal network or their network outside of their organization, because values of time, values of family, values of excitement in travel, the values around what you just are comfortable and not comfortable doing, whether you will ever be the person that does that or not. 00:22:18:17 - 00:22:46:21 Unknown Those are things that you really need to understand. Does this industry require that? Does this level of career growth require that? There was for myself, for example, there was a long time where I had a vision of sea level at a high international company that was my I will be that someday I will be a chief learning officer. 00:22:46:23 - 00:23:15:21 Unknown I was very adamant that was going to be the end. That's my where I'm trying to get to. And then things in my life changed and I continue to evolve and I said as I started to connect with mentors in the space and those that are at that level, it's a very exciting level. But I started to say, Gosh, you're you're, you're always on an international level that includes travel. 00:23:15:24 - 00:23:34:00 Unknown Do I really want to travel? I got to work at an international company and started to recognize I want to be home at my values. You know, I want to be at home at night to help my kids do their schoolwork. I want that on my own. No one's telling me to do that. It's just something I want. 00:23:34:02 - 00:24:03:21 Unknown And so it really it really made me pause and think. So I think before you start to go down the path of investing your time and your energy and your plans and your excitement into something, really understand the whole of what that role looks like to see if it's what you want and also continue to reassess what I wanted at 25 and what I want now. 00:24:03:23 - 00:24:29:07 Unknown My birthday is tomorrow. So what I want as I turn a milestone birthday tomorrow are vastly different. And I think that's something we need to remember too, in this whole conversation is it is okay for your career path to change? Yeah, that's a great point. That's you need to. I thought that in the show notes, it's okay. That is change. 00:24:29:09 - 00:24:48:23 Unknown So I feel like a lot of people want things kind of set in stone. Like, like you said, like I want to be here and that's where I'm going. But it is okay if it's if things change. So I told my husband we were having one of those big, you know, rarely in our lives conversations that we one tends to have. 00:24:48:23 - 00:25:21:12 Unknown And I said, gosh, if we could pull it off, I would totally be happy to just, you know, retire and well, who wouldn't be happy to in the next five years? So, you know, he'd always gone on this. You want to be a C-suite. I mean, we talked about this for a very long time. So my move to say, I think I just like to write, I think I would be very happy, you know, stepping back and writing and just write books and write articles and just do that. 00:25:21:14 - 00:25:41:05 Unknown And he was like, okay, well, I don't think one a different one doesn't just do that. Five years ago, I invested some time. I thought, maybe I want to be there, see, like I don't want to be a C-suite leader in a giant international company. I've learned I don't want that. That didn't align with my values. I want to run my own business. 00:25:41:10 - 00:26:08:02 Unknown That's what I want to do. So I went through the process to get my LLC and I went and got individually certified in several things so that I was a certified seller of those things to THRIVE my business. And then I started building my network of of others in this space with their own LLC. And for some reason in my head, I'd be less busy if I ran my own business. 00:26:08:02 - 00:26:34:10 Unknown I'm not sure what I was thinking. Newsflash, everyone, you're not less busy. You're having. It's fun. So. So then I thought, Well, I'm home with my kids, so I'm not traveling internationally, but I'm working at night and in the morning and on weekends and always. And I was like, That doesn't really align with my values either. So it's okay to to have your career path change up. 00:26:34:12 - 00:27:09:07 Unknown And I think the big value to an organization is recognizing people do that too. They can invest your time in somebody that, you know, came in and they were really excited and then they all of a sudden sit down with you ten years later. And they're like, So I've been thinking for a while, wrapping up here today. I know we've given a lot of great practical, practical steps, but do you have any last steps or pieces of advice that employees and employers can really take to create their own personalized career path and plan? 00:27:09:09 - 00:27:42:16 Unknown And if you have any resources that you kind of want to draw up here today, I think that would be a good ending to that. So, yeah, so a great step for organizations is to create that kind of open door conversation process where employees can come and chat with HR About what are job roles and what are kind of some universal expectations at different levels within the organization or different job roles. 00:27:42:16 - 00:28:24:08 Unknown Are there certain certifications that i'm completely unaware of and and for the organization to have an understanding of resources you can connect team members to. It's excellent to have tuition reimbursement, it's excellent to have certification. You know, spotlight staffs or bonuses if you go get the certification or will pay you back for it. But to also have that resource bank of where people can go to get those certifications and especially, you know, price preferred means for you as an organization, build that resource bank so that when folks do ask their managers or do come to your company's HR 00:28:24:08 - 00:28:51:15 Unknown Department, you have an answer for them from an individual perspective, it is one of the answer to that question. So do some self-reflection and prepare that kind of stuff, but also take some stock. And it doesn't have to be a full 360 assessment tool or anything. But to the resources, what what would I consider my strengths to be? 00:28:51:15 - 00:29:12:19 Unknown Look at the job description you applied for. What about it made you apply for it? If you can look back at different roles, you've had within your career, what are those skills you've built up over time? Create your own skill bank so that you can reflect back on that skill bank and say, Here's all the things I've learned, here's what I have, here's how I know I'm strong in it. 00:29:12:21 - 00:29:53:05 Unknown What gaps am I seeing? Because only you know your career better than anybody else. So when you know what things you've done better than anybody else. So really take your own self-assessment, make your own list of what you've created and what your strengths are, so that when you go have that conversation, folks can try to help you say, this type of job role utilizes that this type of job or utilizes that to help you get a sense for those things, you can go to it from a resource perspective, depending on the industry space that you do think you want your career to grow in. 00:29:53:05 - 00:30:20:10 Unknown Again, it might not be a specific job role, but it might be an industry specific. There can be lots of industry competency models out there that you can do your own. Do I think I need to grow? I'm I'm strong in this or have mastered it. ATD has one for learning and development professionals. They have one for sales professionals. 00:30:20:12 - 00:30:59:04 Unknown Sherm has them for HR Professionals and hrc has them for HR Professionals. P i don't even know who does the vp the project manager certifications, but it really depends on industry space, where or what assessment tools are out there to find out where you are within that space. But there's tons of them out there. Just give it a google and you will find find lots of resource is depending on what industry peaks your interest and why. 00:30:59:06 - 00:31:23:23 Unknown Yeah, for sure you can put some resources that we use in the show notes below as well. But that was, that was great advice. And with Amanda and I think everyone, whomever where they are in their career can relate to this somehow, which is, which is really great. So thank you for coming on today and being today's guest and really sharing your expertise in this area. 00:31:24:00 - 00:31:45:09 Unknown I always love your examples and the tools that you share to our listeners. If you liked our chat and topic today, don't forget to share our episode and consider joining MRA. If you aren't a member already. Like I said, we have all the resources you need in the show notes below, including resources on this topic. Career paths and the course. 00:31:45:09 - 00:32:06:24 Unknown We'd love to hear from you, so feel free to chime in and share any great success stories that you've had of your own career path or career path planning otherwise. Thank you so much again for tuning in today and we will see you all next week. That wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign in to connect. 00:32:06:24 - 00:32:22:07 Unknown For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: In this episode, we explore the concept of a mindful workplace, its practices, and the profound impact it can have on employee and business success.  Resources: Wellness Toolkit  Wellness Guide  Welcome to Workplace Wellness Publication  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Laura Ruby  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Laura Ruby  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR. MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:48:24 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello, everybody, and thanks for joining us today. We're we're really hearing more about mindful workplaces nowadays. We thought we would take today's podcast, really think about this topic more in-depth. So i'm here with Laura Ruby senior HR Business partner and HR Business advisor for mra. We're really going to talk about why mindful workplaces are trending or what you really need to be aware of. 00:00:49:05 - 00:01:11:19 Unknown What are some of the challenges that come along with it in more so or thanks so much for joining us today. I really, really appreciate it. Well thank you. So I'm really pleased to be here. This is definitely a timely concept, I think, for a number of employees to consider or employers to consider. Yeah, absolutely. And I know we were talking about that. 00:01:11:21 - 00:02:02:12 Unknown You're very passionate about this topic and you've been working in the HR for such a long time that this is kind of the perfect topic to go over today. So I think we should kind of start out with what is a mindful workplace. Can you define it? Yes, so mindful workplace is really a combination of factors as we look at new initiatives that people are working towards in that space is really developing an awareness of an individual's thought processes, their emotions and their actions, and helping to enable them to laser focus on those and remove obstacles to productivity and really improving the work workplace from a variety of different aspects. 00:02:02:14 - 00:02:50:21 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. And you guys in part two to that question. Can you describe what that whole concept of the mindful workplace really encompasses? It's actually quite broad in as well. In talk today we'll touch on all of those components but it's it's combining more Eastern philosophies about issues of meditation or focus and concentration, breathing, as well as branching into mental health aspects that are damaging workplaces right now and helping individuals to deal with their own anxiety, stress, as well as other things like other issues they may be experiencing. 00:02:50:21 - 00:03:20:21 Unknown And in relationships, finances, you know, you name it. So it's a very good I'm going to discuss how the company can actually sort of work with developing a healthier source. And actually, I feel like it's definitely transformed throughout the years or in my opinion, I feel like employers didn't really talk about this kind of stuff as much as they do now. 00:03:20:22 - 00:03:48:15 Unknown They didn't care as much about, you know, providing all these resources and mental health resources and wellness resources to employees. So I think it's great we can kind of cover that and talk about it and just the process and how it's evolved over the years, too. So my next question then would be, do you have any practices that a mindful workplace can kind of what can you implement? 00:03:48:15 - 00:04:35:23 Unknown What practices can you implement to create a mindful workplace? I mean, it's all over the map, but I think that really companies that are finding great success with implementing mindfulness, they're starting more starting small programs available to employees, maybe with classes or chair yoga, breathing exercises and some of those smaller components into helping the individual so as to what they're thinking and to continue to say that laser focus on what's in front of them rather than all these other things that may be coming from local personal life or other anxieties. 00:04:36:00 - 00:05:16:00 Unknown So really, it's starting small forces or activities designed to encourage that, as well as programs designed to work to tell physical and mental health things like walking programs or competitions within companies where people compete on a physical level to the mental health aspects and making sure that insurance programs feel great. And it's available to employees, including people who are in search of more provided. 00:05:16:00 - 00:05:48:07 Unknown So it's a very broad spectrum. Some of the larger companies are also includes things like meditation rooms or Zen areas or places where it's cool to take a break there and get reflective. And there are things that people want to address. Yeah, those are all great examples, Laura And I'm thinking about Emirates specifically, some of the cool things we do with our wellness. 00:05:48:09 - 00:06:10:01 Unknown Something I love in the summer, we'll kind of get a group of employees together and walk around. We have some trails around here and the walk show location and that's just great to kind of take like a mental health break, take a walk kind of reboot almost. And we also have a masseuse come once in a while, which is awesome. 00:06:10:03 - 00:06:48:06 Unknown That's a plus. So, yeah, a lot of great examples of what organizations can do well. And I know are you talked about starting small. You don't have to implement this huge idea right away. But what's what other steps can be taken to create a culture that values and supports this mindfulness? Well, that's a really good question. You know, a lot of research out there is built in on more so management assertiveness and exhibiting these behaviors and then having that trickle down effect within the organizations. 00:06:48:06 - 00:07:42:15 Unknown So many companies will start to train their managers on the basic concepts and helping them to modify their behaviors to help other people. And so along with this process, because a lot of them view that managers are kind of the key to their success in the organization. And if you have a manager that's been, you know, like micromanaging to use the term or, you know, laser focus on what people are doing right then, and that can really put a bad tone in the organization as employees, more stress and so more specific, the focus is really to train the managers first and then implement some of these programs for the interviews to help encourage them to 00:07:42:15 - 00:08:14:02 Unknown take that step back and begin to give themselves some additional brave souls. Feel throughout the day. And so a lot of the programs that were designed or have some training programs in the beginning where they'll people there are a number of number of mental health app type applications or mindfulness applications that people install on their desktop or their cell. 00:08:14:04 - 00:08:44:04 Unknown So they encourage that as well as integrating a lot of training, maybe even utilize you to come in and talk about more stressful things that might be pressing individuals who trying to work with children and then someone is engaged with adult care for them, trying to manage those needs. It's on both ends of the spectrum to put that stuff aside and let yourself levels. 00:08:44:06 - 00:09:22:10 Unknown Absolutely. And I know we talked about this a little bit in the beginning, but what about the physical workspace being designed to encourage this mindfulness and others quiet areas, massage room, but any other examples that you can give the physical workspace, specifically? And I think this one is really important and I find myself doing this every at least once a week, just decluttering your office and taking that time to organize it so that things are not visually distracting you. 00:09:22:12 - 00:10:03:08 Unknown You have easy access to them. For example, I support simple members as well as working on the front line. So I basically moved all of my materials out of the visual area. So a couple of computers set up on my desktop and I tried very diligently to only have one computer on the time, but decluttering, moving things where they're easy to get to, but not in the visual space and using common colors, things like to look at, you know, I have a number of pictures in here with my grandchildren and they're kind of between the screen here. 00:10:03:08 - 00:10:32:01 Unknown But, you know, you can use the same concept in your own workspace, even a cubicle or, you know, things just to create that environment. So the grid, as we mentioned, setting up spaces where things can get a little comfortable. Both of these have been stored on a break room. They have like couches and easy chairs for people to sit in versus just the table and a more sterile environment. 00:10:32:03 - 00:11:01:08 Unknown And as you mentioned, like having a Zen room or meditation or just a space that people can go into. But so yeah, I love those. Yeah. And I would add to for the Quiet Areas piece at MRA, we have focus rooms and those are something I definitely take advantage of on a day to day basis. And they're just quiet rooms. 00:11:01:08 - 00:11:24:01 Unknown You can go to solo rooms, kind of gets rid of all the distraction and allows you just kind of focus on your own work. So that's something that I really love about our physical workspace, but also the natural light to think having windows is so important and letting the sun come in or is snow light I guess right now. 00:11:24:03 - 00:11:57:10 Unknown Right, Right. But yeah, even in the offices there in Wisconsin, the turkeys come up near the windows. And so you kind of get this natural breaks throughout the day, taking a step back to nature and kind of disengage from work stress. So stressful opportunities just get into a different. definitely. Definitely. Well, now that we've kind of talked about all the logistics of it, what impact does it really have on employees and business success, too? 00:11:57:12 - 00:12:31:17 Unknown Well, it's not staggering when you talk about the mental health aspect of this. There was a recent study done that nearly half of the employees that were surveyed, I believe this is survey of people they had mentioned almost half the time that their mental stress or issues that they had got into the workplace and in fact they it to so, you know, this is a pretty serious area when you have our high pressure environments. 00:12:31:17 - 00:13:11:14 Unknown We have technology that is helping us to be more efficient. That can sometimes be a distraction as well, where those types of things can certainly effect productivity at work. You also see where employee absenteeism increases when they have to deal with stress or dealing with lots of issues. But now you have employee satisfaction and engagement, which is a huge factor in this as well, is highly impacted by developing those mindfulness practices there. 00:13:11:14 - 00:13:54:19 Unknown As the workforce becomes more engaged to it, we'll see other things like reduced toxicity as a higher productivity and just a number of other things within the organization, especially the team will sort of go into these like best companies to work or those organizations or you see continue to be up there addressing these issues regularly. You absolutely. I think it's also helpful to give some examples of wellness programs so that companies can start thinking about some ideas for themselves. 00:13:54:19 - 00:14:35:19 Unknown So what wellness programs are in place to support employees mental and emotional well-being? For example, there are a couple of other offenders that are out there that have websites within engagement, and they can provide things from training to other directed things for the organization. A lot of companies can work with their community against some training or some other activities to help themselves establish these programs and really it's initiatives that a company needs to undertake and puts in it. 00:14:35:21 - 00:15:10:09 Unknown So they know the company is saying, we recognize that we need to improve mental health so they can begin to throw out some of those initiatives. So again, focusing on the key points that they want to bring into focus group and being mindful as well as the challenge that there's something one of the other things we've seen a lot of conference engaging in is really looking at the effectiveness of our job is goals. 00:15:10:11 - 00:15:51:00 Unknown So we may have a job description, but it could be that the person fails to do so. Do set the tone. So we structured those positions to be acceptable, normal. And again, we're working with some of those wellness providers to implement some of those programs and really give them a start of influence to start us with. They've already given hope to or different types of services into the organization, or they can project because they've worked with some of these programs as well. 00:15:51:02 - 00:16:22:15 Unknown And then I think the next step we see HRC developmental University for tax and spend is outward to see what services they can provide in that space, because again, it's going to be a balancing act of financial commitment. So the company will do little space to implement some of these ideas again and again. The other important aspect to serving themselves to actually find out what it is that they would do, just sitting, just sitting. 00:16:22:16 - 00:16:47:09 Unknown And I think that's another survey back to said, you know, companies go where, you know, about 60% of companies to be doing a great job if you ask their employees and they're like, no, I'm not participating. I'm not really seeing some interest to me. So we're going to get their feedback soon. So let's do the work for you as an individual. 00:16:47:11 - 00:17:18:04 Unknown And then using that David style, allow it to influence the audience. Yeah, that's a great point to bring up. Absolutely. You talked about that stat with how mental health impacts productivity. So wondering if you're kind of seeing anything else here with our mental health really impacts productivity at work. It's well, if you look at company, it's going to be a little bit different. 00:17:18:06 - 00:17:51:05 Unknown But I think if you were thinking about mental health, there are a number of programs designed to work the same as you're providing additional counseling services, maybe through your income, more services available to employees, and then financial wellness and helping them to work with their retirement programs into the future. Now let's look and see what we can set up to really help support financial unexpected financial things. 00:17:51:05 - 00:18:21:16 Unknown So with individuals who are gearing those programs to help minimize anxiety or stress or know that concept or those day to day activities or childcare is another area where, again, you know, it's a huge worry for people watching as to how they're going to provide support to have the right resources available to them, what happens with their child. 00:18:21:16 - 00:18:45:06 Unknown So how they deal with that. So a lot of those focuses to help minimize stress for people and allow them to step away from that. And the other great focus and I think going off of that work life balance talk, when you're talking about care, spending time, that's where the work life balance kind of also comes into play here. 00:18:45:06 - 00:19:14:20 Unknown So we actually had a whole podcast alone on work life balance. So it's definitely important and something you know, everyone wants. So do you have any suggestions for employers how they can help balance work life, work life balance for their employees? Yeah, I think there's a number of things that a company can do. One, they talked battles for reevaluating the jobs being done. 00:19:14:22 - 00:19:47:20 Unknown Are they being done effectively because a lot of work stress comes from that. That very aspect that my job is, is to do an area where I don't have the right tools to get the job done or there may be other efficiencies. So you do not want to remove that stress, but it seems like very flexible hours so people can stylize hours so they're the best person, that sort of thing to do to get kids to school and pick them up in the day they can. 00:19:47:22 - 00:20:24:07 Unknown A special hybrid workplace is also really powerful in addressing that. So identifying when you want to stack all that work around you do work from home. It's that's with a manufacturing environment. It might be implementing, you know, five minute breaks in manufacturing or some other ways to stagger breaks so that people can stop working a little more frequently throughout the day versus just confining that small your ten or 15 minute period. 00:20:24:09 - 00:20:54:02 Unknown So there's a lot of things that something you can evaluate that would work in day and again, contribute to some of that work life balance. You know, and it just shows. I think that's the final thing. You know, companies can use. They're buying talent. So speed is providing it for brands or a health care child. You know, some of these are very aspects of THRIVE. 00:20:54:04 - 00:21:32:10 Unknown I know several companies I work with nowadays. And how do they bring you directly into work and they take it up and have it done for you. And so, you know, and utilizing tools like, you know, ordering your groceries online from the microwave. So there's a person that you can co-champions. Lots of people do. Yeah. Why don't we try to This is how we work for you to help in that flexibility that we're trying to develop in. 00:21:32:13 - 00:22:04:11 Unknown Well, yeah. What's going to make their life easier, right? Yes. I'd like to draw on my laundry and have somebody to get done. Something I read about when I was kind of restructuring for this topic today was Holistic well-being initiative. So things that kind of encompass physical, mental and emotional health. So what are some initiatives employers can implement around here? 00:22:04:13 - 00:22:37:00 Unknown Well, and that's, you know, again, if you take a step back to look at all your wellness programs, what are you offering today and what can you bring in? There are programs that we've been developed that are a little more integrated. So you can say here, I want to create a program about, you know, balancing work so and so things where you coach them and say, you know, when you get into work, take 5 minutes at the beginning of work to just kind of arrive and be at your desk. 00:22:37:02 - 00:23:02:13 Unknown Don't check your email, save your email review. So maybe 20 minutes into the job or, you know, or implementing, there's a technique called the Pomodoro technique, where you divide up your your time into 25 minute increments and you take just a slight break between them. So you just only focus on one thing for 25 minutes to explain two things. 00:23:02:13 - 00:23:40:03 Unknown So if you're implementing, if you're doing project management, you can build that into it as well. So I think just really being open minded as an employer as to what options and again, this is for the survey too. So in handy is to help isolate, you know, what are things that employees interested in. And really I think what inhibits of employees from participating in those initiatives at work is sometimes the time you're hosting a one hour training course. 00:23:40:05 - 00:24:07:13 Unknown Many employees, more than ten of them because they're like, I can't go that. But you can break that down to 15 minute sessions. You'll see that your attendance rates increase. So again, you're really trying to find a sweet spot for what you're offering and how much observation is in that program and then doing follow up. So that was useful. 00:24:07:15 - 00:24:35:16 Unknown You know, how learned about this topic. One of the topics that they want to and so that's not so good, but it's again, taking that to the stage where our approach, it's not just one solution, but there are many aspects to it. Yeah, finding the balance, Google optimization. And I would just emphasize what you said on surveys and employee surveys and Emery can help you with that. 00:24:35:16 - 00:24:57:23 Unknown We have employee surveys, we can help you with custom surveys. So I will make sure to add the link in the show notes. So if you do want to check that out, absolutely go for that. But we're I feel like a lot of managers or leaders may be asking the question right now, how do you know this is having an impact on your employees and your organization? 00:24:58:00 - 00:25:40:03 Unknown Yeah, actually, using metrics, we can implement a lot of metrics within your own organization to measure. First, I would suggest to a baseline to consumer research. So like how often are we missing deadlines or other aspects within the organization? Absenteeism, utilization of PTO also seems to give you an overall view of where we'll start today, even serving and things again we've utilized since then, since getting baseline on the effectiveness of the program is today. 00:25:40:05 - 00:26:17:23 Unknown And then as you move forward with these, once you're putting them out one by one by one, you can measure it into the survey information of that work, which is improving things long term and a little bit annually, you look at absenteeism rates and see how that's being affected or turnover statistics is number one. So as you see absenteeism rates starting to decline now, people lower turnover in the organization and all of these are indicators of several components of success, the wellness. 00:26:17:23 - 00:26:59:12 Unknown But I think again, like I keep harping on it, surveys are a good way to pinpoint work as this affected where you can use exit interviews for people who do leave the organization and find out where do you see the lowest since or something that could have helped to reduce you? And then again, employee feedback about their managers, because again, we've talked about this all starts with leadership and has a trickle down effect and identifying leaders that maybe needs some additional support as well in their managerial style indicators. 00:26:59:14 - 00:27:36:10 Unknown So these are all ways that you can say, yes, we will evaluate that. Some statistics to look at are performing over time. Yeah, sounds like there's a lot of indicators and tools out there to help you kind of measure that impact. And even some of those are mobile applications that people are downloading and which is the organization will store information that can with what effect without utilization and maybe help identify some other areas that people might want to expand upon. 00:27:36:12 - 00:28:12:08 Unknown Well, or as we kind of close out the episode today, is there one thing that you want our listeners to really take away from today's episode on Mindful Workplaces? I know it's it's a lot and there are a lot of stigma associated with meditation or, you know, doing yoga or a lot of things like that, but recognizing that there isn't a one that's all sort of solution, that it's got to be customized to workplace. 00:28:12:10 - 00:28:40:15 Unknown No being well connected experiences to be able to get that feedback, but was one of them in one thing. This is a journey that's about me as an individual. First and then come to me as a company. How we're going to provide resources and tools for each individual on that labor station. So keeping that in your mind, it will help you to develop these break ins. 00:28:40:17 - 00:29:13:23 Unknown Now it's up to me in to help them to use it to help reduce stress, anxiety, stress, anxiety. Just for sure. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being our guest on today's topic and sharing all of your expertise, because I know you have so much in this area. I think everyone can really walk away with a lot of great new ideas and action steps that they can take to create a mindful workplace if they haven't already. 00:29:14:00 - 00:29:36:21 Unknown But to our listeners listening and watching, if you liked our chat and our topic today, I would encourage you to share this episode out and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. Like I said, we have all the resources you need in the show notes below and we have resources on this topic too, so make sure to look at the show notes and thanks for tuning in, Laura. 00:29:36:21 - 00:29:57:00 Unknown Thanks for joining us today and we will see you next week and that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign in to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure you follow MRA's 30 minute THRIVE so you don't miss out. 00:29:57:00 - 00:30:01:22 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the HR conversation.  

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode:  I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference. This discussion is with Matt Phillips, whose session is titled “The Mindsets of Breakthrough Innovators.” Matt shared that successful innovators and entrepreneurs think differently from other people. Further, the way they think can be learned. Using examples from Pixar, Google, Netflix and even ultramarathoners, we can learn the secrets to unlocking innovation as well. Matt will help us. He is the founder of Phillips & Co., a Chicago-based innovation strategy firm. This episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise, and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode:  I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference. This discussion is with Matt Phillips, whose session is titled “The Mindsets of Breakthrough Innovators.” Matt shared that successful innovators and entrepreneurs think differently from other people. Further, the way they think can be learned. Using examples from Pixar, Google, Netflix and even ultramarathoners, we can learn the secrets to unlocking innovation as well. Matt will help us. He is the founder of Phillips & Co., a Chicago-based innovation strategy firm. This episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise, and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Description: We're here with the latest talent trends in January, with a spotlight on the evolving role of AI in the workplace. Join us as we discuss the latest advancements, challenges, and opportunities surrounding artificial intelligence, and how organizations are harnessing this transformative technology to shape the future of work in the early months of the year.  Resources: Talent Report+ Webinar Series  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Jim Morgan  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jim Morgan  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:42:16 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Hi, everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive, which is on the January edition of MRA's Monthly. Taylor Report, which is an up to the minute review of what's going on in the world of business with an emphasis on talent. With Jim Morgan, MRA's vice president of Workforce Strategies. So thanks, Jim, again for being here. 00:00:42:17 - 00:01:06:01 Unknown Yeah, it's good to be back in the studio. yeah. Well, this month the special focus was on essentials for HR Professionals. So I guess my first question to you is really why this topic now? And maybe before we get into that, let's look at your quote of the month, which was related to A.I.. So can you kind of speak on that for a little bit, why you chose that and then the topic. 00:01:06:04 - 00:01:34:02 Unknown Yeah. Sure. The quote was A.I. is moving from traditional Human Resources Shared Services Administration up to human resources, business partner work using virtual assistants who provide us with cognitive insights like Alexa. It's going to happen faster and harder than HR people are ready for. And that was somebody from Deloitte. And I just thought it was interesting because where we're at right now with A.I. in HR is the very beginning. 00:01:34:04 - 00:01:55:20 Unknown And, you know, we did some polling of our own members and talking to our own staff. I mean, it's really at its beginnings stages, and we're just trying to help our 4000 member companies kind of get out in front of it, see what's happening, you know, and where do I belong in all of this? And I think what really launched this is it took someone in the technology field to explain this to me. 00:01:55:20 - 00:02:18:04 Unknown But they said, you know, when they're when they're working on products, theirs is very much a ready fire aim philosophy. It's it doesn't have to be done. Let's just throw it out there and see what happens because our customers will scream at us with whatever is wrong. And if you think of any new version of Microsoft or any new Apple phone, there's a reason it's 2.02.1, 2.2, 3.1, 3.2. 00:02:18:06 - 00:02:38:24 Unknown And that they put something out there and they say, okay, what don't our people like? And then we'll fix it. And that's different than most any other industry that usually is like, we got to get this thing right to our customers or satisfied. But in the technology world, everything's moving so fast, it's more or less put it out there and then we can just pivot and go in a different direction of That's all we need to do. 00:02:38:24 - 00:03:06:10 Unknown So we pick now at the start of the year because I think this is going to be a huge year for artificial intelligence and certainly for our members and people in HR. Yeah, absolutely. And you had kind of subject matter expert Chris Krause, vice president and principal consultant at Naviant join you for this talent report as well. And he gave kind of insight into all things AI related in terms of implementing it in companies and with HR teams specifically. 00:03:06:11 - 00:03:34:17 Unknown So can you highlight some of his key points that you kind of talked about? And Yeah, and I would encourage people to watch that. One is Chris really did do a good job, but he was just sort of breaking it down in terms of where are different places that this will be used in HR And a lot of people have used Chad GPT or some other generative artificial intelligence to do things like how to write a job description or put together a career path. 00:03:34:17 - 00:03:53:06 Unknown And he was sharing examples of that. And again, you know, everybody has to understand this is is not perfect. You don't ask a question, print it out and send it out to an interviewer, closest friends. But it's a good place to start. And he used the example of a machinist he just typed in, you know, what's a good job description for a machinist? 00:03:53:08 - 00:04:14:24 Unknown And it came back with responsibilities and requirements and then he asked what would be a good, you know, career path for a machinist. And it came back with beginner, intermediate, advanced Leader and so, again, it wasn't the it wasn't the this is what's going into our policy handbook answer, But it was, wow, this is a pretty good start. 00:04:14:24 - 00:04:32:02 Unknown And now if I'm a company looking for that machinist, I figure, okay, this is a good start. Now I need to add what is it that we need and what are the things that we're looking for? And he talked about, you know, using things like chat bots because there's just so many things that are standard questions in HR 00:04:32:07 - 00:04:53:20 Unknown And i know that when benefits come around our age, our department and everyone would like to have some. If there was a way to just answer these, you know, what's the difference between plan one and plan two? What's duct to bowl? What does it mean to be out of service area? Those are all programable easy, you know, ready to answer questions. 00:04:53:22 - 00:05:17:16 Unknown And so looking at it from a what are the administrative tasks or the redundant things that might be able to be better done in a different way? That's kind of where he started, but then went on to say, you know, artificial intelligence is being used in learning and development, it's being used in recruiting, and all of it is how do we take advantage of this asset and use it for good and not for you all? 00:05:17:16 - 00:05:37:06 Unknown And he just had some real good examples of ways in which it was being used specifically in human resources. Yeah, I was going to say he did give a lot of great examples and I would urge you to take a look at that recording. And also while we're on this topic, do you want to kind of give an inch of the AI series that's going to be coming out? 00:05:37:07 - 00:05:57:10 Unknown Yeah, sure. We're we're very excited by this, are just putting it together. It'll probably be March, April, but we're really trying to break it down into sections and talk about, you know, here's a AI, here's the basics of what's going on, but then talk about what does this mean for our administration? What does this mean for HR And learning development? 00:05:57:12 - 00:06:17:11 Unknown What does this mean for HR and employee engagement? Yeah, all of them have samples of ways in which artificial intelligence is being utilized in a jar already. So i think it'll be a really good starting point for a lot of people who are like, I don't know where to go. I don't know where to start. I even know what the possibilities are. 00:06:17:13 - 00:06:32:12 Unknown We're going to bring in some folks. I think they're going to be able to lay things out, not here's the answer, not here's prescription as to how you should do it. But, you know, here's the possible you got to figure out where it fits in your company. So I'm we'll be putting those out pretty soon. I think that'll be very exciting. 00:06:32:15 - 00:07:02:21 Unknown Yeah. We also have a whole section on artificial intelligence at our employee law update that's coming up. So that's another one that, you know, again, we're trying to just help our members see where this might be going and they figure out what's going to be best for our company for sure. So stay tuned for that. But I'm kind of moving on here, looking at your actual talent report now with recruiting and retention innovation, it looks like you've pulled some stats from a new report from intelligent AECOM on some new and interesting happenings in recruiting. 00:07:02:21 - 00:07:26:09 Unknown So can you kind of highlight what was seen here in some of those stats? Yeah, what we what we pulled out there was really it was looking at bachelor's degrees, quite frankly. And I think I think a lot of companies have picked up on this already. But, you know, many if they haven't updated anything in a while, Bachelor degrees 30 years ago were a separation of two piles of resumes like has one doesn't have one. 00:07:26:09 - 00:07:59:19 Unknown And that's kind of the way things functioned. And the world has changed. And now it's you might be looking for a specific skill set and you might be looking for a certificate. You might just be looking for someone who's got the right attitude and fits your culture, and we can teach them the rest of it. So it was just looking at companies now that are starting to drop bachelor's degree from something that might have just been in there because it's always been in there and saying, what is it that we actually have to have, especially at in some entry level jobs and even middle level jobs where they may have gotten all kinds of experience 00:07:59:19 - 00:08:23:13 Unknown somewhere else or have the ability and the skill set to do things and don't necessarily have that degree. So it was really encouraging companies to take a hard look at their the job postings in their job descriptions, to say even beyond just bachelor's degrees. You have a bunch of things in there that maybe just don't apply anymore, or that if you find the right person, you can teach them some of the things that. 00:08:23:15 - 00:08:53:17 Unknown So it's just interesting. I think companies, again, are trying to get as big a funnel of candidates as they possibly can and not eliminate someone that might still have the ability to do the job. So get rid of those just qualifiers. Yeah, that is interesting. Kind of moving on from that point, then going off of recruiting and retention specifically going into more of the talent thinking talent pool, it looks like LinkedIn released its 34 big ideas that will change our world in 2024 or less. 00:08:53:19 - 00:09:16:20 Unknown And I know you took you looked at that list and from that list, what do you see that's really of interest to HR Professionals specifically? Yeah, it's a really interesting list. And if someone's got the time to go, look, i'm sure if you just google linkedin's 34. Interesting things for 2024, you'd find it. It's just overall, it was a look at just society in general and some things that are going on. 00:09:16:22 - 00:09:41:01 Unknown But some of the interesting ones that I thought, okay, well, these applied HR Specifically we've been talking about employee shortages, you know, here in the united states, but they had an interesting section in there on, you know, other countries that are actually encouraging and trying to put incentives in place for people to have children, whether that we're going to pay for child care or there's a bonus when the child is born. 00:09:41:03 - 00:10:17:03 Unknown They're really trying. I mean, they've got some serious problems. And, you know, years and years of China, you know, people having one male child, that's got consequences to it. And now some of those countries are starting to see it. So it's not just happening in the United States. It's it's happening other places as well. Were they also we're looking at this might be the year where tensions kind of come to a head between primarily, I would say, newer and younger employees and traditional employers where new employees expectations might not mij meet employers. 00:10:17:05 - 00:10:35:04 Unknown And I'm not saying one sided right or wrong, but if this is the way we've been doing things for 100 years and now you're coming in and you're telling me you want it done completely differently or you were expecting 10% raises every year, or the employer is saying, no, you have to come back to work, you have to be in the office. 00:10:35:06 - 00:11:05:09 Unknown A lot of these things may be coming to a head, you know, this year to say, all right, whereas an employee do I bend, whereas an employer do I bend, and probably somewhere in the middle is the fair answer. But we may see some some long held beliefs that are going to be tested this year and and see, you know, employer versus employee, you know, who ends up winning out on that and expected unretired payment wave in 2020 for people who just said, this is it, I'm getting out. 00:11:05:11 - 00:11:25:02 Unknown But now they're out and one they might miss the money, too. They might miss the socialization. Three, they might miss the purpose in life that some people maybe don't want want to go back to work in 60 hours a week. But they did get an awful lot out of work. And so now they might be taking a look at it again. 00:11:25:05 - 00:11:46:05 Unknown Yeah. And then just some interesting things around, you know, I think colleges and universities are starting to figure this out, teaching a little bit more about entrepreneurship and creator society and helping people. 1920, 21, 22 that might be looking to get into, you know, their own gig and get out there and get going sort of that might not have been taught. 00:11:46:05 - 00:12:04:12 Unknown There might have been more traditional business practices. Yeah. And so even they are now starting to see that there's a market here to say let's let's start looking at this creator environment and see if there are some things we can do there. So the world is changing and that was like three or four of them. But there was some pretty interesting insights into what might be coming down the pike. 00:12:04:13 - 00:12:31:14 Unknown Yeah, that just made me think of I saw a class, it was being offered online, unlike how to be an influencer, which I just thought was funny, but it's like that's kind of where you're shifting almost and it's funny, but it's true and it's happening. So. So the Healthy Boulder influencer on her podcast, you know, I guess you could say that class, I feel like there's so many different types of influencers though, so anyway though, let's talk about our creativity. 00:12:31:14 - 00:12:58:23 Unknown So you bring up generational diversity and what HR Professionals and MRA's roundtables are kind of sharing around this topic. So i'm curious to know what what are some of the things that they're saying about generational diversity that, you know, a lot of this, you know, looking at especially younger workers, you're starting to see some things like as a younger worker right now, I would say most look at it as like, I'm going to try out a bunch of things. 00:12:58:23 - 00:13:17:14 Unknown I'm going to have three, four, five, six jobs in the first ten years that I'm working, and I'm going to get this great breadth of experience that makes perfect sense. I understand what they're doing. My life, it was, Well, I'm going to find this job and I'm going to learn as much as I can about it, and I'm going to climb the ladder and I'm going to be here for ten or 15 years. 00:13:17:16 - 00:13:33:15 Unknown I'm not saying either one of those again is right or wrong, but if I'm looking at a resume and I've got my bias, I'm thinking, Wow, this person's moving all over. They can't hold a job. Yeah, that person's thinking, Wow, I'm a great candidate. Look at all the places that I've gone in order to get as much experience as I can. 00:13:33:17 - 00:13:55:10 Unknown So there's just a little bit of a we got to understand, you know, where each one's coming from. So I think people are starting to look at that a little bit. The feedback issue, you know, the traditional once a year will have some sort of review and we'll go through your entire year. Well, I'm not sure that's the best way to That's why it's been done. 00:13:55:12 - 00:14:17:11 Unknown But okay, So I'm trying to remember right now what my employees did last February. I'm likely to remember what did you do in December and January or December? In November. And if they had really good months, I'm probably thinking now is a great year for you. And if they had a maybe a mess up or two in the last two months, I'm thinking, boy, this has been a rough year and that's not what a lot of the younger talent is looking for. 00:14:17:11 - 00:14:38:22 Unknown It's, you know, monthly, it's immediate. You know, these sayings like, well, you'll learn if I go, don't make me make too many mistakes in order to learn, just tell me what you want me to do or what I didn't do, right? I guess so, Yeah. Yeah. So you're you're a living example of it. So I think it's, you know, understanding that that immediate feedback actually makes more sense. 00:14:38:24 - 00:15:01:11 Unknown It's more helpful, it's more productive when you've got, you know, a happier employee. And then we've talked about this before, but just the generational differences with communications. I text with you. If you know that you want to find me right now, you're liable to text me not emailing sure is like you're not picking up your phone and calling me, but that's the preferred method. 00:15:01:11 - 00:15:22:14 Unknown And for a lot of older folks, it's like we have email, just email. We need to do it that way. Am I giving you my phone number? Yeah, I'm not. I don't know which one is right, wrong or indifferent, but they're different. And so we either as a company have to figure out what our policy is or just as employees and employers figure out, you know, what's our philosophy going to be on this so that we're at least consistent with it? 00:15:22:16 - 00:15:59:19 Unknown Absolutely. Well, kind of going into some HR Trends from the field section. McLean company recently released some HR trends in 2024. So what were some of the interesting findings that you saw here? I think some of the things are still not surprises. Recruiting was at the top. Providing a great employee experience was up there and I think that has to go with the retention part as companies are seeing that now controlling labor costs is in there, which is interesting because we did go through a few years where we were just about paying whatever it took to get people, and I think we did that. 00:15:59:19 - 00:16:24:23 Unknown We had to do it. But now there is there's a business decision to be made here that we can't be increasing by six, seven, eight, 9% our employee costs every year because we can't afford to do it. So now there might be an emphasis on how do we get smarter, how do we maybe use machines, how do we use technology to do it a little bit better so that one's on their developing leaders is on there? 00:16:24:23 - 00:16:50:11 Unknown We're seeing a lot of that and I think a lot of that is all kinds of retirements, younger people coming in and how do we train them a little bit more quickly. And the good news side, actually a good news bad news side for the HR Folks, an increase in HR Departments and HR People that are being used and are a part of organizational strategy and over the last three years rose from 36% to 50% that they are involved in those decisions. 00:16:50:13 - 00:17:12:08 Unknown I don't know if this is a coincidence or not, but at the same time, we saw an increase from 34% to 47% of our professionals saying they're stressed out. so I wonder why you asked for something. You got it. Now you got more work, you know, as a group. But, you know, the good news is I think that companies are much more conscientious about our people are a big part of our strategy. 00:17:12:08 - 00:17:29:01 Unknown And so folks are more engaged. And while I think that's part of the stress, I think the stress has more to do with just more things on their plate. You can of COVID. Now we're into remote work and where are people going to work and how do we get more out of less and how do we figure out where our compensation is right now? 00:17:29:01 - 00:17:47:19 Unknown Because the market is changing so quickly, we can't my people or I'm not I'm keeping people. There's a lot going on. And so I think that had an awful lot to do with them with the stress and the last one, I think is about 80, 81% of the people said, we think we're settling into the whole remote work thing. 00:17:47:19 - 00:18:04:09 Unknown Now, I think people are starting to figure out whatever that means for them, were totally remote, were totally in the office, or most likely we've got a combination, but we've we've kind of figured out what it is. It's three days a week. There's a week two days a week, whatever it might be. Companies are starting to figure it out. 00:18:04:14 - 00:18:28:16 Unknown Yeah, So I think we're getting there with that one. Yeah, definitely. And I feel like maybe part of the reason why there's more HR Folks doing more strategic work now too. Could be because of ai or that i could help grow that percentage just because, like you've mentioned, i kind of helps you focus on the strategic work while ai is helping you with more of the operational day to day routine tasks. 00:18:28:16 - 00:18:52:14 Unknown Yep. And kind of going off of AI. Then Emery actually released a recent hot topic survey on AI in the workplace in this month and charts you kind of looked at a couple of the questions from that survey. So can you give us some of the data and what were the questions? First of all, I guess, yeah, first, we were trying to figure out where our members were at, you know, because our job is to is to really to serve them. 00:18:52:18 - 00:19:21:11 Unknown Yeah. But we asked them the first question we asked them is what percentage of your employees are currently testing out AI? And we laughed at that broad. But really we're willing to take, you know, almost anything. You know, I've been on chatbot once. Okay, yeah, that qualifies. But we still had 76% of our members have less than 5%, or at least they think less than 5% of their folks are active in in AI and another 14% that 5 to 10%. 00:19:21:11 - 00:19:43:20 Unknown So still very new. You know, for all of them. We also asked them if they had an individual or a department, somebody responsible for whatever they were going to do and whether that was can you just figure out what's going on all the way to strategic development? And 74% of them were at a point of we have nobody in charge. 00:19:43:20 - 00:20:01:15 Unknown We might have people looking at it, we might have people taken, you know, stabs added, but they really didn't have someone who said, you know, your job is to make sure we know where we need to be and what's going on. So very new with all of them at the same time, you know, we said, well, what do you need from us? 00:20:01:17 - 00:20:25:03 Unknown And we had, you know, 80% of the people saying, geez, I could use some user guides and goals and objectives. I could use more content on what's going on. So they're looking for can you give me some things and start feeding me stuff? Because I think people know this is coming. Yeah, I'm not going to stop and you're not going to be able to control it, so we better get out in front of it a little bit. 00:20:25:05 - 00:20:50:18 Unknown So there was a lot of interest in that. And then because we had the webinar series coming up, we asked them about, you know, what exactly in age are you looking for? Is it? I think we offered them learning and development, just the admin side of our employee engagement recruiting, and all of them came back and, you know, different mixes and matches, but all of them, there were about 60 to 65% had an interest in every one of those. 00:20:50:20 - 00:21:15:07 Unknown Yeah. So I think it's I just need some help, Right. Well it's like just provide me something and I think that I'll be happy. So we are, you know, like everybody else, we not only have to figure it out for mirror with our own products and services and our own staff, but also figure out where our members are at and, you know, try to help them get to where they got to get because there's going to be a big year for I think a lot is going to happen. 00:21:15:09 - 00:21:31:06 Unknown I mean, we all got to be ready for it. Yeah, well, good thing we have the air series coming out. We do? Yeah, we do. So. So we've got your Alberts. Well, Jim, as a kind of close out here, can you give us a look ahead at next month's or February's talent report and the kind of topics you'll be talking about there? 00:21:31:10 - 00:21:58:05 Unknown Yeah, we're we're going to look at internships again, but a little bit deeper around. I think it's becoming one of the leading ways for companies to find people. But those strategies around how, you know, when do I find them, how do I find them, how do I prepare them, how do I make sure their experience is a good one and how do I hang on to them and kind of give them a path right into our organization? 00:21:58:05 - 00:22:21:21 Unknown Because if we're going to invest in bringing these people in and having these interns and helping them learn, it can't just be three months of busy work. Now we have to look at them as we're almost onboarding them, right? Three months. We're trying to prepare them, one, to understand the business and two, to want to work here. And then especially for those that, you know, maybe have another year of school left, we've got nine months now. 00:22:21:21 - 00:22:35:17 Unknown They figure out how to hang on to them. So what are we doing to make that a good experience that they're not looking anywhere else and we know we can count on them when they graduate the next May. So it is kind of going to be a, you know, right from the beginning to getting them to come work for us. 00:22:35:19 - 00:22:57:22 Unknown You know, how do we just look at this as this is our supply chain and we all take care of it? Yeah, well, that will be a great topic and February is a great time to start that conversation. So looking forward to a time to all. Jim, thank you again, per usual for all the back. Great information and kind of recapping what you were seeing, January's talent report. 00:22:57:24 - 00:23:24:02 Unknown But to our listeners, if you liked our chat and our topic for today, don't forget to share out this episode. Give it a like we recommend and consider joining MRA if you are not a member already. As usual, we have all the resources for you in the show notes below, so make sure to look at those. We have Jim's LinkedIn profile if you want to get in contact with him or have any questions for him and we'll see you next week for our next episode. 00:23:24:07 - 00:23:42:06 Unknown So thank you again. Jim. Yeah, my pleasure. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcasts updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. 00:23:42:06 - 00:23:47:00 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: In this episode, we explore cutting-edge HR trends. From optimizing employee experiences to balancing tech with humanity, we delve into the evolving landscape. Discover how HR navigates challenges like hybrid teams and sustainability, while implementing innovative recruitment and leadership development strategies to shape the workplace of the future. Resources: 2024 HR Trends 2024 HR Trends 2024 Employee Trends Labor Shortage MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest LinkedIn Profile - Keri Wozniak  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:54:07 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Hello, everybody, and thanks for joining us today. In this episode specifically, we're going to be talking about cutting edge trends with MRA, our business partner, Kari Wozniak. From optimizing employee experiences to balancing tech with humanity, we'll give you advice on how to navigate challenges like hybrid teams and sustainability, while also implementing innovative recruitment and leadership development strategies to really shaped or the workplace of the future. 00:00:54:09 - 00:01:16:15 Unknown So, Kari, I know you really work directly with a lot of our member companies and you've been in HR for over 20 years, I think so you've really seen it all when it comes to trends and challenges. So I'm excited about the opportunity to really sit down and talk with you on what you're currently seeing trend wise. So thanks again for being here today. 00:01:16:15 - 00:01:44:08 Unknown I'm excited. Thanks. I'll be excited to be here to all just kind of kick in kicking it off. Employee experience is often cited as a critical factor in organizational success. So how are HR Professionals really working to enhance and optimize the overall employee journey with their companies? Sure. You know, this is an ongoing area of concern and has been for for for quite a while. 00:01:44:10 - 00:02:07:15 Unknown As as everyone is aware, we've been involved in a labor shortage for quite a while. It's not expected to change anytime soon. As you know, birth rates are low and generational changes and all that stuff's kind of coming through. So the employee experience becomes critical to attracting and retaining your talent. So some just key things to think about is you really need to be listening to your employees. 00:02:07:17 - 00:02:23:03 Unknown You know, it's okay to read the articles out there, listen to trends, you know, pay attention to what's going on in the world because that will help guide you in the right direction. But your teams, your environment is going to be a little bit different than anywhere else. So you want to make sure that you're you have frequent and targeted feedback loops of your employees. 00:02:23:03 - 00:02:49:08 Unknown So think about things like pulse surveys, small group listening sessions, day interviews, things like that, so that you understand why people stay and why you believe and you can address those to make sure that you have the right employee experience. You also want to make sure that you're starting small and implementing quickly. We just don't have the time anymore to plan for a year and then take a long time to implement and have the perfect programs. 00:02:49:10 - 00:03:05:16 Unknown Instead, we need to look at these things as continuous improvements. Pick a few things that you can implement quickly that will have an impact on your team and move those over the finish line so that you actually see the impact of those. And then, of course, circling back with your employees, making sure that did you actually hit the mark? 00:03:05:16 - 00:03:27:18 Unknown Is this what they wanted? So that's general guidelines and how to tackle things. But some actual specific ideas here are communication tools. So you need to make sure that you are communicating with your employees for the channels they actually use. And, you know, we are so used to using email newsletters, even home mailings that are now pretty old school versions. 00:03:27:21 - 00:03:46:10 Unknown You still need those because you have a lot of people who are comfortable with them. But now you need to be looking at your texting your employees. Are you recording video messages or are you utilizing instant messaging? What about like communication apps like Slack, things like that? You need to make sure that you're communicating with your teams in in those areas. 00:03:46:10 - 00:04:10:07 Unknown It is in all of these places or at least in a select few, and that you're having that same consistent message regardless of where you're communicating because you want them all to hear the same things, but where they're actually going to go, where they're going to go use it. And in that you're considering your generations, you're considering learning and communication styles and then what technology is actually available to the individual. 00:04:10:09 - 00:04:34:01 Unknown You know, your manufacturing employees don't necessarily have the same access to drop as team has. So how are you making sure that they're still getting the messages that you need to have them out there? And time is always an issue, so don't overwhelm your communications team with a million different things to focus on. Make sure it's a sustainable process and that you're automating where you can. 00:04:34:03 - 00:04:57:03 Unknown So some other things beyond communication tools is you want to make sure you're integrating and simplifying your technology tools. Again, the more things you have, the more you going to manage. So looking at fewer sources of truth or better aggregated tools to be able to pull your information and think about the the consumer experience your employees are used to when they're at home, right? 00:04:57:03 - 00:05:26:13 Unknown They're using Alexa, Siri and Google in order to get the information they need to do their personal work in seconds. But then at work, we're going into different THRIVEs, different disparate systems. You got to remember where everything's housed and how you actually pull everything together. It's time consuming and it's frustrating. So how do you mirror that consumer experience at work that they're used to at home or actually watching technology things? 00:05:26:15 - 00:05:45:23 Unknown absolutely. And I feel like just to add on that, the employee experience, it comes down to how well you can listen to your employees and implement the things that they want and that they're interested in. So I like that you highlighted that you don't always have to listen to that outside conversations that might be kind of pulling you in. 00:05:45:23 - 00:06:11:06 Unknown It's really about what does your company value, what do your employees value, and something that might work for one person might not work for another. But I'm glad that you personalization, right? Like at the end of the day, your employees want to know that you know them. You absolutely very well kind of moving on now into flexible work arrangements that's been a key trend the past couple years now. 00:06:11:08 - 00:06:35:17 Unknown So how how is really addressing the challenges of managing hybrid teams then and what strategies are being implemented to ensure collaboration and communication remain effective? Sure. So there's a couple different different things in there. So being flexible in the first place, creating those flexible work arrangements is going to be really, really important. And we're all we're hearing a lot about. 00:06:35:19 - 00:07:01:13 Unknown It's no longer about work life balance, it's about work life integration or fit and the concept there is it's not how do I fit my life around my job, it's how do I how do I have meaningful work that's going to support the life that I want to have? And while that seems like a nuance, it's a really important distinction because employees maybe don't want their whole identity to be what they do for a living anymore. 00:07:01:15 - 00:07:24:17 Unknown And everybody has different challenges, whether it's the raising children, if they've got aging parents, if they've got just hobbies or, you know, desires to travel the world or whatever, those things are, they want to figure out how to balance that while providing the opportunity to be a professional, to contribute in different ways. So to me, one of the key things that employers need to do is be creative. 00:07:24:17 - 00:07:50:13 Unknown We can't just sit there and look at, well, everybody has to work 9 to 5 in an office and do things exactly the way that we've historically used it, you know, the pandemic that we always want to bring that up. But it just changed people's expectations and how they can how they know they can get work done. So so whether it's remote hybrid, so where you actually do work, but there's also the actual schedule itself. 00:07:50:13 - 00:08:14:17 Unknown So can I work maybe four tens? Can I work long hours on weekends or even a combination of those things? Is it more I just need to get my work done when I get it done, maybe matters a little bit less. You can even look at hiring people into job sharing kind of situations where maybe you're hiring two part time people to accomplish the tasks of one full time job. 00:08:14:19 - 00:08:35:14 Unknown A lot of companies are starting to use contractors and consultants, kind of this gig concept. Like, I have a project, I'm going to pick that up, I'm going to work on it. So if you're employing people in these these new ways, it's not all just full time Monday through Friday kind of employees. Then you've got to figure out how do you how do you communicate amongst all these different schedules? 00:08:35:14 - 00:09:00:16 Unknown How do you ensure that people feel like a part of a team and that especially you hear it on weekends and like night shifts and things like that, They don't feel like they're part of the team anymore. So so a key is actually pulling people together in collaborative and community and strong communication ways. So with a focus on actually getting to know each other, having that social connection while you're still being productive. 00:09:00:20 - 00:09:30:16 Unknown And so can you build your team meetings in person, maybe have core hours that everybody has to be there on Wednesdays from from tended to. But other than that, we can kind of work around it. But in those times when you're having people in these more collaborative work environments, make sure it's fun and make it worth driving into the office when if I could have just done my meeting on Zoom at home anyway, why did I THRIVE 45 minutes into the office today? 00:09:30:18 - 00:09:57:24 Unknown So make sure it's worthwhile that they're having that those connections. And it's not always just work like some of it's getting to know your team, having just that time to talk so that they can work better on other things outside of those meetings too. So I think it's just really important that there is that environment when you're together, that you're having fun, you're still getting things done and you're building that that team environment, you know? 00:09:58:01 - 00:10:22:20 Unknown Absolutely. I love all those ideas. Kari And we talk a lot with Jim Morgan. You mentioned the generational differences and export work arrangements, brings up a lot of ideas and even challenges with with generations and working flexible hours. I know sometimes we talk about these like, why are you emailing me at 2 a.m. and it's like, Hey, that might work for me and it might not work for you. 00:10:22:20 - 00:10:45:02 Unknown But if the employer can understand that not everybody is the same, I think that will I don't know. It just helps create kind of that more cohesive team. Even if I'm working the same 9 to 5, like you mentioned one, when you get with employers, I think the resistance comes from we've never really learned how to manage people that way. 00:10:45:04 - 00:11:06:14 Unknown You know, historically I kind of button seat management, which is maybe not the best term, but we're so used to like, I see you, I see working on your computer, you're actively engaged in a meeting. I can tell that you're doing your job when you're not in front of me, when I can't actually see the work that not even seeing an output in that scenario. 00:11:06:14 - 00:11:33:09 Unknown But when I can't see that you're working, then people question, Well, maybe they're doing something else. And then there starts to be this little bit of distrust. We need to change our management styles to focusing on outcomes instead. So it's not as much about how many hours I worked or when I worked or, you know, whether or not you went through 100 emails today or, you know, all of that is I need to produce this result. 00:11:33:09 - 00:11:56:11 Unknown So is it in my doing something of quality? Is that effective and am I having a positive impact on my team? You know, those are things we need to start measuring. But the harder they're just because a lot of jobs, they don't make widgets. You know, it's not that I'm going to produce 30 of these things an hour so how can you say I have strong output in, in what I'm doing? 00:11:56:13 - 00:12:15:19 Unknown So managers and I need to take a step back in these and evaluate the roles? How do I manage these these positions effectively so that I'm not questioning whether or not they're actually doing the job, the right thing. The right thing is, is what I produce now, how long it takes me to produce and where I do it. 00:12:15:21 - 00:12:44:18 Unknown Absolutely. That's a great point, Harry. We're also in the age of social media and increased transparency. So I'm curious, how is employer branding evolving then, with that in mind, in what role does it really play in shaping and promoting a positive employer brand and culture? Sure, a lot of this goes back to that employee experience that we talked about as the first question, and this is now your content for your employer brand, right? 00:12:44:18 - 00:13:08:10 Unknown Like when you're asking the questions of your team, of what they want, then when you actually put programs in place, when things are effective, then that's what you need to do and tell tell the outside world about it and remind your your current employees when you're doing those things and what the benefits of having them are. So making sure that you're telling people the things that you're working at and getting that out there. 00:13:08:10 - 00:13:34:01 Unknown But you need to also make sure that the employer brand rings true to what your environment actually is. I think historically, marketing would put together this really professional and buttoned up program that made everything look perfect. We're seeing now instead that employers are taking their phones out and they're recording things just as much more casual, but it's more real. 00:13:34:03 - 00:13:57:16 Unknown And I think the candidates today and employees are they connect to that because they know that things aren't always produced. And it's not that everyone's always beautiful in an actress and they should leave things instead. I want to see my coworker wearing their uniform actually working on a piece of equipment, talking about what their day is. This comes in as like workers always refer to it as the realistic job preview. 00:13:57:16 - 00:14:27:19 Unknown You know, you want to know if you're coming into an organization, what you're actually going to experience, not just what your leadership wants people to see. So being very, very honest about it, making sure that what you're putting out about your employer brand, whether it's on social media, whether it's just through word of mouth, that it actually matches what your organization does, so that when someone comes into the organization that you know, okay, this is what I thought I was getting into. 00:14:27:21 - 00:14:52:01 Unknown And there's fun ways to do that, especially in small businesses. I think the they tend to think they need a full marketing team to build this out. You can put little notes out about employee promotions or new hires and anniversaries. You can talk about your long term employees and you know, what is their career path, kind of then throw out the time they've been there or, you know, you brought in pizza posted that's okay. 00:14:52:03 - 00:15:14:20 Unknown But those are truly things that you're doing as an organization. But then try to encourage people to do more. Like if you do volunteer days, can we post about those? If there is training that's been received, maybe you sent somebody to Emory and they got certified. Put that out there too, because these are things showing how you're actually supporting your employees in real life. 00:15:14:22 - 00:15:37:16 Unknown You know, absolutely. Those are all great examples, too. And I like that pulling out your phone and just taking a casual video feel like I've heard that so much recently. And I think Amanda Mosteller one of our working and developing instructors called it like the TikTok era, where you just do a quick 32nd video, kind of showcase who you are, what the brand is. 00:15:37:18 - 00:16:07:24 Unknown And I had a story about that. Our marketing team was in. We worked on some project for, like we to bring in the light, to bring in the cameras, kind of like you said, the full produce. And it's like, no, just take out your phone, your cart recorded selfie style. That's what everyone wants to see. And like you said, it's very relatable and it may or may not be a generational thing, as in, I think the younger generation is used to seeing that same all over. 00:16:08:01 - 00:16:42:16 Unknown And maybe that's something that the more seasoned professionals have to get used to that style. But I definitely agree that that's that's where branding and kind of digital content is going is the more relatable content. And I think while it is generational from the standpoint of expecting it in, I think all the generations kind of recognize that it feels more accurate in that it's like, okay, that actually probably happened, right? 00:16:42:20 - 00:17:07:09 Unknown They didn't spend $100,000 to produce this video, you know, and the questions behind that messaging. So I think it is a it's more about being transparent as an organization. And I think there's tools to make that easier to do. And actually, just as I'm saying, the word transparent, the other thing that is really important with employer brands and HR 00:17:07:11 - 00:17:30:14 Unknown Knows this is is your pay pay transparency is really, really important. It's it's coming. If it's not already in your state, it's coming and know the legislations their candidates expect it. We got to stop trying to pretend it's something nobody talks about and start being more upfront about it. And so how do you wrap that into your employer brand? 00:17:30:16 - 00:17:52:01 Unknown And, you know, we can't necessarily be the top payers and with all the benefits, you know, you have to balance your your dollars. But you can talk about what's key, you know, do you have incentive compensation that helps you stand out? Do you you know, maybe you are paying at the higher, higher level or you have some special employee benefit to your total rewards is is a is a balancing act. 00:17:52:01 - 00:18:24:01 Unknown But make sure that you're talking about that and and that you're just you're being upfront about what you believe the job is worth because then you're going to get the people to apply who and who also think that's what the job's worth, right? For sure. So just continuing with the digital digital training here with the rise of automation and I was really balancing technology adoption with the human touch in managing talent and fostering a positive workplace culture. 00:18:24:04 - 00:18:42:04 Unknown So that's been a big challenge for a lot of people recently. Well, it's so new and it's in I mean, my guess is not new. I grew up in the nineties. If we're watching The Terminator, right? Like, I mean, you expected it to come and, and now it's a question of what does it mean in reality and not in science fiction. 00:18:42:06 - 00:19:11:02 Unknown And so every business function, including ours, is grappling with this at some, some level. I think the most important thing that needs to get out in front of this is to remind employees and themselves they are not replacing you. There is still another job on the other side of it, no different than in in the Industrial Revolution when we started seeing machines come into manufacturing, we didn't stop hiring people because the machines were there. 00:19:11:04 - 00:19:32:05 Unknown Now we just needed a different skill set and so we had to make sure that that we're keeping people trained, that they're learning along the way so that they don't get left behind because the DNA not your replace your job, but you are not learning how to use it, will make someone else replace your job. The person who actually does have that skill. 00:19:32:07 - 00:19:53:04 Unknown And so that's important for for each of us as as professionals, You know, we're employees too, but we need to stay in front of our employees and remind them that their that jobs will exist. It just might not look tomorrow exactly the way that it looked today, but it never has. So that's not completely unheard of anyway. But so we need to get in front of that. 00:19:53:04 - 00:20:27:12 Unknown We need to communicate with them, you know, where we see AI coming into their particular roles and then take the time to build training and adoption tools to help them get there because it is going to be new for everybody. So let's just keep everybody moving at the same time. Things that I think about and where I probably should be coming into play is you're trying to automate manual, repetitive processes that don't require creativity, strategic thinking or what I think is important, an empathetic response, right? 00:20:27:12 - 00:20:54:12 Unknown People need to do that. But if the rules are already there and it's a plus B, we'll see. Get people out of that. It's not worth their time. That's when you start to have the technology come come into play too, to do that. So for our specifically, that might be answering questions on policies and benefit inquiries like it's factual and be able to use a chat bot for something like that. 00:20:54:14 - 00:21:34:21 Unknown How do you, how do you use systems and tools? You don't necessarily need to have somebody standing in front of them doing the training. How can you help affected training that that's there that they can utilize and access without the without taking up the time of an individual? Things like metrics and data reporting. I mean, I'll be able to set up automated resume screening and interview coordination are hugely time consuming things that again, as long as you define your factors and can can very much be done by by software and then performance cycle administration, I think is an area that can really get focused on what I want. 00:21:34:21 - 00:22:07:06 Unknown Scaring people is the idea that performance management, actual management might get in been used with I, I don't see that happening for quite a long time because there is still that's the creativity and strategic thinking and we have to have pretty pretty fancy software to be able to get that right. But that leads into HR Has to be a gatekeeper of if you want to call it algorithms, if you want to call parameters, whatever the rules are that are being built, HR 00:22:07:06 - 00:22:32:01 Unknown Has to review those for bias. So you can't have your recruitment software picking your hires because there is inherent bias in the data that we're using to automate this process in the first place, and we have to question it. We got to put those on that scene with compensation, career development, anything that is truly career and employment impacting HR 00:22:32:01 - 00:22:57:06 Unknown Really needs to be reviewing what those rules are that are being put into the system and and doing adverse impact analysis to make sure that we're not going to have whether conscious or unconscious bias come in because that's going to get you in legal trouble. But more importantly, it's unethical, right? No, i'm i'm really glad you reiterated the point that I is not going to get rid of your job and that we still need you. 00:22:57:08 - 00:23:23:00 Unknown I feel like I've heard that in a lot of places and we've talked about it on a couple of podcasts. But those are all great examples of where HR and just business overall can use AI and how you can kind of integrate it into your automated processes so you can focus on all of the strategic planning processes if the things you don't like to do because they're boring. 00:23:23:02 - 00:24:00:17 Unknown there you go, There you go. And then you can focus on like the stuff that you actually really want to do, which is using your brain. Exactly. Well, the concept of agile HR Is also gaining popularity. So my question is, how are HR teams embracing agility to respond quickly to changing business needs and marketing market dynamics? Yeah, this is a it mentioned a little bit earlier, but it's it's changing your mindset from only implementing things when they're perfect to getting into an iterative continuous improvement process. 00:24:00:19 - 00:24:29:01 Unknown We just don't have time with how quickly things change to make sure everything is perfect. We can't build a handbook, have to go sit on a shelf and five years from now look at it again. But you have to be pulling things out every six months, reviewing, making sure that there's minor tweaks and rolling things out. Was looking at some of my concepts like technology is becoming obsolete in 3 to 5 years. 00:24:29:03 - 00:24:53:10 Unknown So if it takes you six months to select a new system and a year to implement it and six more months to optimize and get it really working for you, you're now ready to replace it again. So you need to be constantly changing and tweaking and adjusting and that is going to to be the case for for not just your technology tools, not just your HR 00:24:53:11 - 00:25:14:06 Unknown Resources, but really anything that you were touching in support of the business. So when you're talking about career development, maybe you're creating career ladders, trying to retain people. You can't just build the program and come back to it a couple of years later and expect that it has been working the whole time. So we something out 80% good. 00:25:14:08 - 00:25:49:09 Unknown Learn from that and then make adjustments and be transparent with your employees. Be like, Hey, we tried it. We found something that didn't work. So now we're going to adjust and try to make it better. So that's necessary with just about everything. When regulations keep changing your employees and candidates, expectations are changing so rapidly. We're just in a in a world where the iterations are coming so much faster that you have to you just have to keep adjusting along the way and don't worry about perfection. 00:25:49:11 - 00:26:13:13 Unknown And then of course, we sort of automate where you can so that you don't have to spend your time on administrative tasks and you can focus more on on these things that need to keep changing in response to the needs your business. And I would say and celebrate wins because we kind of forget that step. We keep the burnout, all that stuff kind of comes because everything is coming so quickly. 00:26:13:15 - 00:26:35:11 Unknown So when you do implement something, remember to celebrate it. Say thank you, Remind people that it's happened so that they see the work and effort that's happening. Take a little bit of a breath before you move on to the next project. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's great advice. I'm kind of moving the conversation to a little different topic here. 00:26:35:13 - 00:27:07:18 Unknown How is HR addressing the growing importance of sustainability in corporate social responsibility, in shaping workplace values and practices? I think this is something our listeners are very curious on and they kind of want to want to know more about this topic. So we set out on this question that it's it's it's very different now than when when I started my career, I was even in even five or ten years ago when people were talking about corporate responsibility. 00:27:07:20 - 00:27:35:14 Unknown But it was more like, don't be a bad player, you know, don't don't have the you know, the Environmental Protection Agency coming in and doing something from a legislative standpoint. Now it's more about aligning your organizational values with your business process. So if you go out on many, many company websites, they'll have their mission, vision and values. You see common things about integrity and ethics. 00:27:35:16 - 00:27:59:23 Unknown You know, maybe environmental sustainability is is listed out there. But I think the most important thing is aligning that to, again, what you what you're actually doing. So it's important to to walk the talk. So you want to make sure that you're integrating your business practices in in that that social responsibility that you're saying you feel is important. 00:27:59:23 - 00:28:26:14 Unknown So think about like maybe you need to review your supply chain contracts because you want to align with, you know, maybe you've got a DEA and B program that you're very vocal about you're putting on your employer brand. You can't sit there and say, I'm in support of a particular group, but then never use them as your supply chain. 00:28:26:16 - 00:28:51:23 Unknown So what are your criteria for selecting vendors? How do you bring that in from from a social responsibility standpoint? You know, looking at your manufacturing practices, it's great to sit there and say we will we recycle, reduce, reuse, recycle. But what if your manufacturing practices are creating significant amounts of waste? You need to look at that process and find ways to to have a direct impact. 00:28:52:00 - 00:29:18:15 Unknown You might want to implement a scholarship program that's in support of, you know, organizations or groups that you're providing support to. So again, just that deeper integration that rings true to your organization. So it's not enough just to to post support out on social media or write a donation check. You need to align who you are as an organization, which you're saying in your values. 00:29:18:15 - 00:29:43:05 Unknown This is who you are with, what you're actually doing. And so that's going to help with your employees will see that it'll gain trust with them candidates where this is important to them. They'll be attracted to your organization because it aligns with their values. And I mean, that's the perfect scenario is if you can recruit people who believe what you believe, they're going to fit your culture. 00:29:43:05 - 00:30:14:02 Unknown They're going to they're going to they're going to stick with you, too, because there is more to the relationship than a paycheck. Instead, they feel good about what they're doing. So a couple of common areas, because I think people question, you know, what is it all mean? What's the definition of this? Some common areas that organizations are considering under that social responsibility kind of umbrella is, as I mentioned, the diversity equity inclusion, belonging activities, environmental sustainability, fair trade. 00:30:14:04 - 00:30:37:19 Unknown You know, again, you want to buy from vendors in potentially third world countries that are not paying people effectively or just have to the sustainable wages and then responsible labor practices within your own, your own environment, within anybody that you're doing business with. So those are things to to measure as well as make sure that you're considering when you're making decisions. 00:30:37:19 - 00:31:00:18 Unknown And as an organization. Absolutely. Those are great examples and I feel like a common one too, is just volunteering. A lot of organizations say they value volunteering, but then it's like, do you give your employees volunteer opportunities to sit out, kind of start to finish thing? Like, do you follow up with them? How is their experience? How how they get involved in the community? 00:31:00:18 - 00:31:19:16 Unknown Like you can't just stop at 25%. You got to keep it going kind of thing. There are some organizations and I won't name any, but I'm very recognizable that you see out in the world wearing their volunteer t shirts and you see them at events all over the place. And so, you know that that's really something that that organization takes seriously. 00:31:19:18 - 00:31:48:02 Unknown Right? Right. Well, just kind of wrapping up here today. One more question for you. Leadership development is obviously crucial for organizational growth. So what initiatives are HR Departments implementing to identify and nurture leadership talent within organization? This is a really key area for me, and i feel like we don't spend quite enough time and energy on this in an actual practice. 00:31:48:04 - 00:32:23:01 Unknown You know, so often we promote the best individual contributor into running a department, but we haven't necessarily stepped back and said, are they a leader? Are they somebody that people go to naturally when when when the managers in a meeting, who do they actually reach out amongst their team members to get support and help? So first, I think your selection process needs to definitely be evaluated a little bit more and you need to make sure that the individual contributors can still grow without becoming managers because not every person should become a leader. 00:32:23:03 - 00:32:47:04 Unknown But then another aspect of leadership development for me is actually the job evaluation of our front line and mid-level managers. We have a lot going on in these positions. There's high, high expectations of them and they don't always have the time and resources to be able to actually do the job effectively. So it's a really common pressure point. 00:32:47:04 - 00:33:20:22 Unknown And what I mean by that is senior leadership has expectations of goals and initiatives and growth plans that need to be executed on by these team members. And now we're seeing employee expectations and the employee experience has increased a lot of what they expect out of their frontline manager. You know, they're expecting that their managers want to know them as individuals, that they adjust their leadership style to them, that they're helping them develop in their careers, that they're representing the organization on a day to day basis. 00:33:20:22 - 00:33:55:12 Unknown Strong communication, regular feedback. You know, there's just a there's a lot that's being expected at that. And then these roles commonly have extremely high spans of control. So you see it's not uncommon to see a supervisor have 20 to 30 direct reports if you expect them to know their employees on an individual basis and provide a strong employee experience, while also meeting the strategic goals and needs of the organization, probably need to take a look at the span of control because that's probably not a realistic ask. 00:33:55:14 - 00:34:20:14 Unknown And they also have a lot of administrative work, whether it's time cards and performance reviews and you just all these tools and resources that they have to do on an ongoing basis. So I think it's a really important that we especially as we take a step back and then look at whether it's a program we're implementing, what's the impact on them, but also are we really designing the jobs in a way that's going to make them successful? 00:34:20:15 - 00:34:47:05 Unknown So that's a it's just a it's a key area for me is making sure that they're spending that time, especially given we know the direct managers are a key reason why employees stay or leave an organization. So if we don't provide the support to those specific individuals, how are we really long term impacting our ability to to get the right talent in the organization? 00:34:47:07 - 00:35:12:16 Unknown So it's like I said, we need to make sure that we're focusing on evaluating what those responsibilities are, how many direct reports they might have, what's the the individual contributor tasks we ask them to, because oftentimes they're also expected to be a producer on top of being the manager of a very large team that you might need to provide administrative support to them or an automation tools or something to make their jobs a little bit easier. 00:35:12:18 - 00:35:33:02 Unknown And then being clear on training them and the skill sets that they need to do their job well and providing very clear expectations of what they're responsible for so that they can be successful. And of course, Emery can help with the training and the development and even the job evaluations if that's something that people are interested in. But I do think it's important. 00:35:33:02 - 00:35:55:24 Unknown We very often look at our senior leaders and we're looking a lot at our individual contributors these days, but this group in the middle gets kind of forgotten. Well, I think that's a great place to close out on a great conversation today. So, Keri, I want to thank you for for your expertise in ensuring that sharing the trends that you've been seeing in HR currently. 00:35:56:01 - 00:36:18:10 Unknown But to our listeners, I want to thank you also for tuning in. When Keri mentioned we have resources linked in the show notes, so make sure to check those out today or you can find them at MRA. Net dot org. We also I'm curious LinkedIn profile linked in the show notes. So if you like to connect with her or ask or any follow up questions, be sure to connect with Keri. 00:36:18:10 - 00:36:38:15 Unknown I'm sure she'd be happy to do that. Keri Again, thank you for joining me today. And to our listeners, we will see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. 00:36:38:16 - 00:36:48:09 Unknown And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: In this episode, join us for an insightful conversation with Susan Fronk, President and CEO of MRA. Get ready to kick-start your new year, as we explore trends, strategies, and expert insights that will define success in 2024. Whether you're a professional, entrepreneur, or anyone seeking to thrive in the fast-paced future, Susan shares invaluable advice for making 2024 your best year yet.  Resources: 2024 National Business Trends Survey  MRA Hot Topic Surveys  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Susan Fronk  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Susan Fronk  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:41:11 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello, everybody, and thank you for joining us and happy New Year. And welcome back, Susan. Hey. Well, Susan, since your New Year podcast from last year is actually in our top ten podcasts of all time, we thought it would be great to really bring you back this year and share your insights for the coming year of 2024. 00:00:41:12 - 00:01:04:09 Unknown Yeah, I saw that, that it was in the top ten, but you know, sort of thing too much credit because I was one of the first podcasts. So it's top ten for a still call me season, right? Okay. But for those of you who may not know, Susan Fronk is MRA's president and CEO. And you're really here today to help you get your new year off to a great start, really help you and your business thrive. 00:01:04:11 - 00:01:31:17 Unknown So speaking of where to start, Susan, let's take a look at a recent national Business Trends survey from the Employers Association of America, the EAA. I know, Susan, you always talk about using data THRIVEn decisions and using those for results. So let's take a look at the results that we're seeing from the 2024 National Business Trends Survey. We know that the economy impacts everything every day, life in work. 00:01:31:19 - 00:01:58:05 Unknown So let's talk about the numbers for this year specifically. According to the survey, 67% of organizations say the economy will improve or stay the same. And that's an 18% increase from last year's report. So we're really seeing greater confidence in this year's economy. So my first question to you is, with business leaders feeling more confident, how will that impact employers for this year? 00:01:58:11 - 00:02:28:12 Unknown Sure. Well, first, a word about the National Business Trends survey and how relevant it is for our members. The EAA, the Employer Associations of America. Organizations like us across the country. So employers of all sizes in all industries and tens of thousands of employers. So this survey is really reflective of kind of coast to coast thinking in how they're planning for the next year. 00:02:28:14 - 00:03:14:14 Unknown And you're right, there is a greater confidence that business will at least stay the same or improve in the year ahead. And that's great because where confidence goes, usually production follows, sales follow and hiring follows. So I know we're going to get into that, but that's kind of a mixed blessing. So hiring is still really tough. When you look at the comfort index in production and sales and where companies are going, that means there will be investments, investments made in their companies, in mergers and acquisitions, plant expansions, maybe more experimentation and innovation as well as additional hiring. 00:03:14:16 - 00:03:45:17 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. And according to the business Trends survey, 52% of employers here in the Midwest are looking to hire permanent staff. So when it comes to hiring and recruiting for 2024, what suggestions do you have for employers out there? Really? Sure. Generally, when I'm talking with members, whether those are our constituents or the C-suite, they are still having great difficulty finding qualified experience hires. 00:03:45:19 - 00:04:23:03 Unknown So if you think of hiring as filling positions and not just hiring somebody from outside the organization and bringing them in, it may make a little more sense. And that's some of the creative D that I see. Employers are not necessarily looking for that needle in a haystack. Well, they certainly are, but they're also saying, who in my organization may have the ambition and the skills and characteristics to move up and what kind of development most training and professional experiences would I need to give them to grow them into that position? 00:04:23:05 - 00:04:53:00 Unknown If you can't buy it, meaning hire, you've got to make it and that'll develop. Yeah, absolutely. And we'll talk a little bit more later, especially on emerging leaders and from a CEO perspective, what qualities and characteristics do you specifically look for in those emerging leaders? We'll talk more later. But Susan Talent acquisition TA has been a serious challenge for employer employers in the past year and this year looking ahead. 00:04:53:01 - 00:05:26:10 Unknown So let's talk about what executives identified as some other top challenges of this year. Talent acquisition was top at 50 to 2%, but also making the top five list was cybersecurity at 44%. Talent retention also at 44%, inflation coming in at 41%. And then developing future leaders, as you've mentioned, at 34%. Looking at that, cyber security is new on this list for this year and really an issue top of mind for executives And, you know, all employers. 00:05:26:12 - 00:05:52:00 Unknown What are you hearing from other organizations in business leaders overall on how what they are doing to increase cybersecurity? Sure. And it's coming up in many business conversations. Before we move to that with your commission, Sophie, could I circle back to the talent, get perhaps a lesson? Because the survey did highlight some things that I think are worth underscoring in this conversation. 00:05:52:01 - 00:06:28:21 Unknown One is that compensation, as a starting wage went up. No surprise there, but also that the ranges of the jobs themselves have been adjusted upward in the majority of organizations. And again, no surprise with inflation being kind of break away in 2022 and maybe moderating a bit in 2023, just that those are table stakes. Right. We all know that compensation alone isn't a satisfying necessarily, but it's a dissatisfying. 00:06:28:23 - 00:06:47:04 Unknown So what I mean by that is if you don't get it right, people will leave. But even if you have it right, meaning that you pay competitively and you know what the market pay is and your benefits are appropriate, the right amount of paid time off, just the fact that you get that right, those are table stakes. That doesn't mean people won't leave. 00:06:47:06 - 00:07:09:20 Unknown You have to have culture and environment and professional growth and development opportunities as well. The innovation is just the doubling down on the fact that it is a total package and human resources is right at the center of that and leadership conversation to say, here's here's how we have to touch all those bases. So pay alone will get you there. 00:07:09:22 - 00:07:34:02 Unknown But you do have to know how your jobs stack up to off. And I think business leaders may say this job title and what does this job title pay? That almost doesn't matter because titles are just that. You have to really look at the responsibilities and the role itself and the job duties to make sure that you're comparing apples to. 00:07:34:04 - 00:08:02:14 Unknown Absolutely. Thank you for circling back. Sure. Yeah. I think that was an important point, and I neglected to say that originally. Absolutely. If you asked me about cybersecurity. Yes. Well, I think it is a big question. It's like describing the you and I am no cybersecurity expert, but I do have the catbird seat, I guess I would say, and I always feel honored to have those conversations with so many business leaders. 00:08:02:16 - 00:08:26:23 Unknown But our members do share confidential information with us, and cybersecurity is keeping people up at night. It can ruin a business in the blink of an eye. Before I get to a couple of recommendations that I would make as a layperson, not as a cybersecurity expert, but as a business leader, that that does have this advantage of talking with a lot of other smart business leaders. 00:08:27:00 - 00:09:03:23 Unknown Anecdotally, I happen to be in Las Vegas last fall for my husband's birthday, and it was during the MGM data breach and Hurd worldwide, everybody was talking about it because they decided not to play ball with the threat actors. And there are a thousand decisions that businesses need to make about cybersecurity. But one of them is am I going to capitulate, potentially pay ransom, try to secure my data and hope and pray that that the bad right. 00:09:03:23 - 00:09:28:09 Unknown You're going to honor their word, which is interesting all by itself mean you trust in criminals to do what they say. That makes no sense. But then the other branch is to say, forget it. I'm going to take what comes right. And what was so unique about the MGM? Brett breach is that just prior to that, the whole Caesars Entertainment family worldwide was in it. 00:09:28:11 - 00:10:04:17 Unknown They paid a seven figure ransom. Whether that was there's two huge hospitality, gaming, entertainment, playing in the same space, trying to attract the same customers in the same industry. And they went in it very different ways. So I guess an umbrella is you have to know your own company, your own culture, your appetite for risk, and that the subject matter experts you've got on hand and higher tech to move you through any threat, hopefully to prevent a threat. 00:10:04:19 - 00:10:34:04 Unknown And then what's the fallout? Can your company with stand whatever it is from your employees, from your customers, from your vendors who say, maybe I don't trust you as much anymore, So now two organizations, very similar, could have been brought to their knees, and I witnessed it staying at an MGM property. My husband and I saw it was basically shut down. 00:10:34:05 - 00:11:18:14 Unknown They must have lost millions and millions every day. So just having that kind of ringside seat and talking to who I could. Dealers and Uber THRIVErs. Yeah, customer service people, they highlighted the fact that it was really only one employee who unintentionally who did a very bad and reckless thing against the training that he'd had, which brought the company to its knees, and that because they were networked so thoroughly at all of their properties worldwide for economy and efficiencies, a scalability, knowledge and interest locking this out. 00:11:18:16 - 00:11:55:17 Unknown It also was once somebody got in their room, they got in every. So how does that relate to our members here in the Midwest, wherever you happen to be? It's that employee training is an absolute again, just ticket to the show. If you're going to be in business today, you have to realize the threat really is everywhere and your employees, advertently or inadvertently are likely going to be the access point. 00:11:55:19 - 00:12:25:15 Unknown So train your employees and keep training and keep training and can don't take no for an answer. You just have to have that level of knowledge of what the risk is out there and and how they could jeopardize your organization. It's one thing. The second thing is I would really advocate for an independent outside audit of all of your systems. 00:12:25:17 - 00:12:56:07 Unknown Yes, it takes time and yes, it costs money, but they will highlight areas of opportunity, areas of risk. Can I give you a report card and a game plan to say if this is your report card, where you're strong and where you're weak, here are some gaps. Here are some systems or practices that make you vulnerable. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. 00:12:56:09 - 00:13:26:09 Unknown And then you can address those gaps that an outside third party, nothing in the game has identified to help make your company stronger. And it isn't a one and done sort of thing. I undertook one in 2020 and again in 2022. We plan to do it again next year. So that's just like maintenance review. You do what you can and that doesn't that, that doesn't ensure you're not going to have a problem, right? 00:13:26:11 - 00:13:58:24 Unknown It just maybe reduces the likelihood. So those two things extensive of ongoing kind of black and white employee training must do it. And second and a regular practice of outside objective audits of your systems so that you can become stronger and less vulnerable. Absolutely. Those are great takeaways, Suzanne. And I appreciate the examples, too, that came with it was very interesting to watch in real time. 00:13:59:01 - 00:14:26:18 Unknown Cybersecurity has been one of our was highly requested topics coming from our 30 minute Thrive listeners. So I'm glad we can address that today. Well, I'm not a cybersecurity expert. I would suggest we get some for future podcasts. We will really dig into it. Absolutely. Another topic that's been very highly requested is I we have a couple episodes out there if you'd like to go in depth about A.I.. 00:14:26:18 - 00:15:15:01 Unknown But Suzanne, I guess I'm curious from your perspective how you feel about a A.I. in HR overall, MRA's first steps to kind of incorporate air in our company. I'm sure just kind of briefly touch on that. I will. I wouldn't say that we're ahead of the game. I would say we're writing this tsunami with most of the organizations out there and learning as best as we can so we understand not only do we need to get it right and become more knowledgeable about our own services and how we're going to offer, connect with produce what we do, and that our members are 4000 strong, are turning to us to say, What should I be concerned 00:15:15:01 - 00:15:42:07 Unknown about? And specifically, I guess as it pertains to human resources. So my thought is there is no there is no value in saying a AI is bad, more A.I. is dangerous. It can be in the wrong hands. And without a plan. But I just is it is coming on strong. So it's not it's not an argument to be debated. 00:15:42:09 - 00:16:06:23 Unknown It's a fact to be managed and wrestled with and resolved. And as best as each company can. So what do I think the impact on each I would be, I think is going to be huge. I'm making this big universal statement without a lot of detail under it. But we're learning, as I said, as fast as we can. 00:16:07:00 - 00:16:53:08 Unknown This practice might work for our members too. We have developed last year we developed an AI task force so people internal, aided by some external experts that would just make us smarter, that would take a look at it and study it regularly and carved out a bit in their time and their goals to be help us elevate our skills with regard to artificial intelligence, not necessarily deciding what our projects would be because it's a small group of people, but elevating the knowledge of our leader team, our employees in general, our senior leaders, and to say, here's what we're learning and to keep that in front of us so that we can make good decisions about 00:16:53:10 - 00:17:27:20 Unknown both internal and external offerings, program services and expertise we may do, I will say, one thing. I strongly recommend that every company who is trying to get their arms around AI and who isn't, that they start with something that sounds like you're putting on the brakes before you even get in the car, which is data governance policy, because every company has employees, whether you know it or not, who are already working with A.I., It could be in a side hustle. 00:17:27:20 - 00:18:04:15 Unknown It could be that they're using it for what they do for your organization and you just don't know it. Or it could be that innocently. They're just one of those early adopters that are saying, Well, I'm just going to experiment through having listened to some outside experts and some people in the legal realm who talk about copyright and many other legal issues, I guess I would just say help your employees be the best they can be by having a data policy and guidelines that give them the parameters. 00:18:04:17 - 00:18:26:17 Unknown So you want to make sure you know what's going on in your organization so you can make sure you don't get in trouble. But also you want to make sure that it's a conversation daily, weekly, ongoing, so that you can harness whoever is an early adopter and excited about it and use that to help further whatever you're trying to do. 00:18:26:17 - 00:18:57:23 Unknown So it's really going to impact and this is just fundamental, you know, the basic knowledge of of things I've seen, it's really going to impact the employment world, how you hire and attract source, bring on board employees. Absolutely. So HR needs to get its arms around that second thought. When you think about marketing production and content production communications, it's really going to impact that as well. 00:18:58:00 - 00:19:25:10 Unknown I would never put something out there written by a guy who. What is that and who is that? You know, the the very old adage garbage in, garbage out applies might be more garbage, might be digital garbage, but it could still be art. So that I almost think artificial intelligence, I'm never going to change the title. That is what it is universally, but it's almost like it should be called augmented in time. 00:19:25:10 - 00:19:51:11 Unknown Just plainly put a computer brain is helping humans do their job better. So you augment how you do your job with artificial intelligence. So artificial always kind of gives me the creeps, but neither it's real or it's not right and it's real. So I would I would say you want to use augmented and I like the do your job from the heard it here first. 00:19:51:15 - 00:20:19:15 Unknown All right. We're changing artificial intelligence. Right. It's just you know, it's not even 9 a.m.. We're getting things done. Get things that I would just add to that, too, from the conversations that I've had with some subject matter experts specifically on AI and how it will affect the workforce. And each are specifically I feel like they're seeing that A.I. is going to help with operational and more routine tasks. 00:20:19:17 - 00:20:49:23 Unknown And that's going to leave HR Professionals and professionals in general more room to focus on the strategic planning tasks that maybe they don't have enough time on right now. That's well said. And i think HR People should be excited about that. But first, it's scary. Before you get excited about said you first have to get your arms around it and know how i'm going to harness it and you don't left behind and and and and though I do think it could help HR 00:20:49:23 - 00:21:14:03 Unknown People focus on the more strategic conceptual things and getting more routine tasks out of the way. It won't stop there, though. I think that's a bridge to to something even bigger. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for those recommendations. In fact, we have a hot topic survey coming out very soon on ai in the workplace, so stay tuned for that. 00:21:14:03 - 00:21:45:16 Unknown And if you want to learn more about how I will affect your workplace in HR specifically, that hot topic survey is going to be coming out next week, actually, so the week of January 7th. And we will also have a podcast covering those results of survey results. But so, Susan, let's talk more about some other business trends, survey results here to our attention was among the top business challenges for 2023 and heading into 2024. 00:21:45:18 - 00:22:13:08 Unknown So what are organizations doing now to really retain top talent once hired? There's very little like earth shaking and VR and tremendously different. But I can say again with the confidence of thousands of employers weighing in, that some fundamentals that again put it, are right in the middle of that business conversation session. You need to be an employer of choice. 00:22:13:08 - 00:22:56:14 Unknown You need to be an employer that competes not just on being in the top of the range you need to pay competitively, as we've determined. But there are so many other things. And one of those other things that is trending more strongly isn't new, but trending much more along strongly is learning in growth. How how are you going to take a new employee, an existing employee, a long service employee, and continue to give them opportunities to learn and to grow in your organization, that that deserves more time and attention on a regular basis? 00:22:56:16 - 00:23:35:20 Unknown Then then most of us either devote to because you're there's a crush of other things to do, or maybe we don't realize just how important it has become and the talent shortage and the fact that employers are looking to hire more in a stronger economy and those people just don't always exist. And so for self-preservation as well as for growth, you really need to keenly focus on career paths and opportunities to develop your current team. 00:23:35:22 - 00:24:05:00 Unknown That doesn't mean you all have to create a university. That doesn't mean you need to have a ladder, a and a ladder being a ladder. I guess it would be the other way around. Let's see. Matter be ladder. But in some organizations that makes sense. Maybe more of a manufacturing organization, but it does mean the quality of supervision and management, the quality of those conversations are really important so that that employee knows. 00:24:05:02 - 00:24:37:04 Unknown All right. The job to which I aspire or the pay that I'd like to earn someday is achievable with these steps. My employer is going to do these three things and I'm going to do these five things and we're going to arrive at this happy destination together. So spending more time and thoughtful consideration of each employee's career path, no matter the job, is really trending strongly. 00:24:37:06 - 00:25:07:11 Unknown And that's not going to change as the talent market stays really challenging, challenging in that there just aren't enough experienced, qualified candidates out there. And even at the very entry level or new to the job market range, I'm not letting those great employees get away and happy somewhere else. Absolutely. And I have a follow up question for that. 00:25:07:11 - 00:25:50:19 Unknown Then, in addition to, like you said, table stakes, the competitive wages we've seen variable pay has also come into play to overcome these recruiting and retention challenges. Are you seeing any incentives used by our members or other organizations, employers with variable pay to kind of overcome the retention challenge? Sure. I'll give you what we've learned from our survey and then I'll give you a little Susan Twist, because, well, my opinion doesn't always carry the day, but we want to hear it. 00:25:50:19 - 00:26:24:00 Unknown Well, it is what it is. What I think would work if you had an organization that you started from scratch with people that you were able to select carefully and grow the way you wanted to. You would treat everybody in a very custom way. Your best employees would get 10% raises and you, your average steady, at ease would get far less than that, and you wouldn't have poor quality employees. 00:26:24:00 - 00:26:55:17 Unknown And in real world that doesn't exist. But I do see to sell them that employers use whatever matrix they have for pay and benefits, they use it to too much the same year. At the end of the day, what is the difference to you or to me or to anyone? You know the difference between a 2.7 raise and a 3% raise. 00:26:55:17 - 00:27:26:07 Unknown It just isn't meaningful. So if you really want to keep that better employee, what is meaningful for great performance. So again, that's the real trend with my twist using HR Being very nimble and able to layer on its policies and practices not as consistently maybe as a lifetime has taught us. You need to treat everybody the same. Not necessarily. 00:27:26:10 - 00:27:58:01 Unknown You need to have business justified reasons for doing that. You need to make sure it's tied to documented perform means but achievement of goals. Those employees who truly are head and shoulders above, they're going to go elsewhere in this market unless you do treat them differently. Ways that you can do that. Variable variable pay tied to performance, not universal bonuses, but those that say if the company achieves this, then we all get that. 00:27:58:03 - 00:28:25:15 Unknown That means gain sharing, Whatever you call it, it's gain sharing. Second would be if you in this role achieve this, you're going to get this. Those things benefit the organization and they will lift all boats instead of variable pay that isn't as tightly tied for goal achievement. And again, that brings the spotlight right down on the quality of management in supervision. 00:28:25:17 - 00:28:50:15 Unknown Are your managers and supervisors savvy, trained and strong enough to say, Sophie, here's where you hit your goals. Here's where you missed your goal. Here's what that earned in our variable pay plan and here's what you going to do next year. That should be a dialog. Usually saying that's achievable might be a stretch goal, but I can do it. 00:28:50:17 - 00:29:25:05 Unknown Not pie in the sky. What are you talking about? I could never do that. So it should feel like a partnership, but it should also feel like a stretch and your manager has to be able anyone's manager has to be able to say, Great job or here's the gap. And that's saying a lot. If you're not going to use things very consistently which can water down performance if you treat everybody the same, the great performers say, What the heck? 00:29:25:07 - 00:30:01:11 Unknown Why should I tie on my son Jr's every day and run at 100 miles an hour when he is and she is and they are running at 50 miles an hour? No, you know, why would I do that? It tends to it tends to breed mediocrity instead of excellence. So the key to that is high quality management and supervision and the ability to have conversations in a partnership way so that people understand, here's how I can excel, here's how I can earn that variable pay, and here's, you know, what caring what I do to improve. 00:30:01:13 - 00:30:30:14 Unknown If that was Susan's twist, that makes sense. Yeah, but it doesn't exist. It doesn't reflect. Well, Susan kind of rounding out the top five challenges from this year's survey is developing future leaders. So I know we touched on this briefly, but what recommendations do you have for developing an organization's up and coming leaders or emerging leaders? I would say, well, one of them, I think, is what I just touched on with regard to variable pay. 00:30:30:16 - 00:31:00:06 Unknown People work for intrinsic feeling of accomplishment. That's true. I think if you hire good employees, they want they come in saying, I want to do a good job because that's just how I'm wound. That's my theory. But let's not make the mistake that an achievement is an important and compensation isn't important. And recognition and rewards are an important and I'm probably wound a little differently that way. 00:31:00:11 - 00:31:29:17 Unknown I'm not saying intergenerational, but it tends to be in that newer workers in the workplace just need more care and development and to feel a part of the team. And I think sometimes longer service workers missed that. By missed that, I mean don't recognize that enough. Don't think about it often enough. Not out of bad intention, but because that's not what they experienced. 00:31:29:22 - 00:31:53:11 Unknown So so you don't want to allow that disconnect to become pervasive in your company. You want to make sure it's fluid and organic is a word I like to use there, meaning it's growing and changing all the time and it's an in an into flow of information going back and forth, people communicating about what they need and what they want and what they have and they like and what they don't like. 00:31:53:12 - 00:32:24:23 Unknown I mean, then you can respond to it back to the career passing. Just make sure that's part of your performance system. Whatever your performance system is, it isn't just about goals, it's about what's next and where you want to go and what you want to achieve and and help with how you get there. So if any employee is willing to say, I want to grow my job and I'm willing to put in these things, room managers should want to work with them all day long. 00:32:25:00 - 00:32:50:21 Unknown It's great advice. Well, common sense, right? Well, Susan, unfortunately, we're running out of time here. But I know we asked this question a lot to our members, but now I'm curious to know what keeps you up at night, Susan, looking forward into the future, 2024 for business? Well, thanks, Sophia. You you actually gave me some nightmares during this conversation because most things. 00:32:50:21 - 00:33:16:19 Unknown Yeah, this is what I'm you. You you touched on two of them because they're so external to an organization. I think many leaders and I like to feel that I really know how to run this business and that I communicate with this team really well that you that you know where we are financially. You know what our goals are. 00:33:16:22 - 00:33:47:01 Unknown Our strategic placement is tucked up in your cubicle, whatever, you know, where we're going. But cybersecurity and artificial intelligence that are tiger by the tail, both of those things, you can do everything right and not see the train coming on the track. So again, business people are paid to square their shoulders and say, how do I how do I capitalize on those opportunities? 00:33:47:01 - 00:34:13:01 Unknown Not how do I run afraid from them? What your question was, what keeps me up at night? I would say it's those two things, among others, because they are so external to minimization. They are so foreign and fast moving and in the hands of other people and things and technology that today a few of us are expert in. 00:34:13:03 - 00:34:39:12 Unknown So so that's what keeps me up at night. And that's why through our conversation I highlighted just the fundamentals of policy governance practice. Outside audits, you do what you can and then hopefully you can just put your head down on the pillow and sleep because you've done what you can. That doesn't mean it will protect or be perfect or optimize artificial intelligence the impact on your business. 00:34:39:14 - 00:35:08:09 Unknown But you can't be an ostrich either and stick your head in the sand and just say, I hope it doesn't impact me for two years or five years. It will come in my CEO roundtable. We talked about cybersecurity and there were 14 really smart business leaders, owners in the room, and four of them had had data incidents, let's call it threat actors attack their business. 00:35:08:09 - 00:35:35:18 Unknown So four out of 14 just in the last year, it's not if, but when. So make yourself as bulletproof as possible. Absolutely. And we have resources linked in the charts below. You can also find them at MRA Talk. But Susan, we wrap up here. Any last thoughts, any words of inspiration for the new year, your mike drop moment here? 00:35:35:20 - 00:35:55:00 Unknown I'll tell you what I told my employees and my partner over the holidays. Bring it on, We're Ready! I love it. I need to. I'm excited. Perfect. Well, thank you, Susan. I really appreciate you coming on. And I appreciate your leadership here, too. Like I mentioned, we have resources in the show notes below, so make sure to refer back to those. 00:35:55:02 - 00:36:15:24 Unknown They are also found on our website, mranet.org. And thank you so much for listening and tuning in today. We hope you have a great New Year in a successful New Year and we are always here to help. So thank you again, Susan. Happy New Year. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. 00:36:15:24 - 00:36:31:04 Unknown For more podcast updates, check out other Amari episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.    

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode:  I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference.  This discussion is with Tony Belilovskiy, whose session is titled “Voice of Customer in Product Design.” Tony will be sharing with us how you can turn customers' perceptions (that is, their feelings) into numerical, objective data that can be injected into the product design and used as a business case for innovation. Tony is CEO and Managing Principal at C3 Excellence, that empowers clients to develop transformational strategic alignment with their customers. This episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Description: Join us as we dive into the excitement of the new year, exploring the power of setting fresh goals. Explore practical tips and proven techniques to align individual, team, and organizational goals, setting the stage for a year of unprecedented success and growth. Resources: Quarterly Goal Tracking Chart  SMART Goals Tracking Form  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Amanda Mosteller  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller  Guest Bio - Brittany Czirr  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Brittany Czirr  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:42:16 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, we can get started right away, but we're excited that you're all here with us for our first ever live podcast. But really, we're here to make your 2024 your best year yet. And it's all about goal setting. So today, find out the impact of intentional goal setting and the value that modern day goal setting brings. 00:00:42:18 - 00:01:05:12 Unknown It's a new year. It's time for new goals, and MRA, as always, is here to help you get set. So like I said, we're here on LinkedIn live today, super excited. And for our listeners out there who have questions about goal setting specifically, ask away, definitely encourage you to put your questions in the chat. And Amanda and Brittany will answer them here and now. 00:01:05:14 - 00:01:29:05 Unknown Plus, we can save some time at the end of the episode to really answer any additional questions that might come up. But for now, I'm curious to know where you all joining us from. Like we said, we're from Waukesha, Ohio, Kentucky. We're all over the place right now. So curious who's joining us today. Kind of as we get set here, I'll introduce our guests. 00:01:29:07 - 00:01:59:02 Unknown My name is Sophia Boler and the host of MRA's 30 Minute THRIVE podcast. And joining me are Amanda Mosteller, MRA's director of talent development. And Brittany Czirr learning and development facilitator also with MRA. So kind of as we get started and warming up here and as chats are going to be coming in. Let's talk about goals. And these are really not just your typical New Year's resolutions, which may be not about just a few weeks. 00:01:59:04 - 00:02:24:02 Unknown These are really long term as well as short term goals intended to really help you realize your greatest personal development and productivity for about 2024 year ahead. So today we're really going to be talking about the evolving standards that are reshaping the way we pursue success in every aspect of our lives and the goals we actually achieve to to get that success. 00:02:24:04 - 00:02:49:17 Unknown So let's first kind of talk about the importance of goal setting. Why don't we? So, Amanda, you want to start us off and kind of tell us what the value of setting goals is? Thank you. Yes, I do. And I love your highlight, which really ushers us into modern day goal setting of this is different than end of year New Year's resolution goals that you set three weeks later. 00:02:49:17 - 00:03:12:16 Unknown Hey, look, I'm not at the gym anymore. I hit it strong for about 25 days and then petered off. And and I would challenge that traditional goal setting strategies kind of resulted. Similarly, I would set my goal at the beginning of the year, and then at the end of the year I go, yeah, I was going to do that professionally for the team this year. 00:03:12:17 - 00:03:37:01 Unknown Didn't get to it. And so when we really talk about the change and how it's been modernized, that that was such a great highlight. So because it comes into play is why it has evolved as well. But in terms of the value and the importance goal setting theory, I can talk about theory for a moment and I promise everyone just a moment. 00:03:37:03 - 00:04:06:15 Unknown Dr. Edwin Locke and Dr. Gary Lape actually started the conversation around setting actionable task performance related goals in the sixties. Now, I know you're saying modern day goal setting in the 1960s do not connect. And that is accurate. That's why we talk about modernizing a lot of their approach. But theory tends to be pretty universal in terms of how we implement it over time. 00:04:06:15 - 00:04:45:20 Unknown That modernizes and changes. But one stat that will not change and they actually updated their stats. They started doing research again in the nineties and updated it in the early 2000 in the Psychology Today Journal. But they really highlighted how 90% of individuals with performance s team personal organizational goals that they want to accomplish if they create is actionable goal, they write it down big key there and then they refer back to it. 00:04:45:22 - 00:05:15:11 Unknown They are 90% more likely to achieve success. So when I think about the value of goal setting, I think about the value of actually having an accountability partner of writing it down because we're 90% more likely to achieve success if we do some simple steps that we're going to talk about today. Brittney, what other thoughts do you have on the value of goal setting? 00:05:15:13 - 00:05:36:10 Unknown my gosh, it's so crucial, right? Because it really does allow you and to the point of writing it down, you know, putting stuff out there, speaking it into fruition, that is there's a lot to be said for that. If you just kind of keep it in and you internalize it. What are your checks and balances there? How are you tracking what you're doing to your point of accountability partners? 00:05:36:10 - 00:06:00:24 Unknown You know, how do you measure success? Because it's not going to be this like linear or not even linear, but open to the right. Like it's not going to look like that at all. It is peaks and valleys step forward and backwards. So how do you how do you navigate that and making sure that you have it somewhere that you can refer back to really helps navigate that aspect of it? 00:06:01:01 - 00:06:25:09 Unknown Absolutely. Those are all great points. And again, I would encourage our listeners, if you have any comments you want to share, how goal setting has really helped you and your organization achieve better success, We're all ears. We want to know what you're doing and what how you're finding success. But kind of moving on now that we know why we need to set goals, let's kind of talk about the what and how of goal setting. 00:06:25:09 - 00:06:55:21 Unknown So I heard you mentioned modern day goal setting five times. So what really is modern day goal setting and how does it differ from what most people think about when setting their goals? And so in the sixties, when goal setting theory and task performance coach, that element of their initial theory published in the sixties really was related around performance for the team or the organization, right? 00:06:55:21 - 00:07:21:04 Unknown So as an individual, how do I fit into the team performance, which fits into the organization performance? And we set it in January and then we come back and talk about it in December and we set my new wins in January. Modern day goal setting is much more fluid, so I establish goals that might evolve and change in 90 days. 00:07:21:06 - 00:07:50:19 Unknown I establish goals that might take me three years to get to. All of them are welcome. All of them are important into that accountability partner piece, whether that's your manager or a mentor or a peer or they're checking in. So that set it and forget it truly is the older way of thinking, whether they're associated with. And we can get to talking about, you know, associations with financial gain. 00:07:50:19 - 00:08:17:04 Unknown So whether I have it's allocated with my merit increase, that's going to doesn't change the amount of check ins and this cadence of fluidity that our goals are. Additionally, people are looking to their organizations to help develop their career, which is different than being a piece of the team or the department of the or great. It's a two way relationship. 00:08:17:04 - 00:08:48:01 Unknown So the organization I'm also looking at the organization to develop me in my career so that I can continue to better the organization. It's a cyclical relationship, so goals aren't just team and department related. They're my personal career growth goals as well. And how can the organization help me set those goals and THRIVE me towards success in those goals, even if it doesn't have to do with the job I'm doing with you today? 00:08:48:03 - 00:09:06:09 Unknown The job I have today is this. But maybe I have a career aspiration of this and I could do that here. That's organization and probably will be more likely to if the organization is helping me develop my skill sets in that kind of a goal as well. That's a very modern view. Brittany, anything to add on to that? 00:09:06:11 - 00:09:35:04 Unknown I do. So a couple of things. The the piece where it is a relationship that Amanda had mentioned. So it's having, you know, an investment into the person so the person can reinvest into the company. I think that that is so critical for companies to realize that because what is the saying where you provide someone with enough resources and get them where they want to be and feed into them so that they want to stay right, Like train them and get them to the point where they can leave but they choose to stay. 00:09:35:10 - 00:10:04:06 Unknown It's so much more rewarding and from a financial gain standpoint, from a satisfaction and morale and engagement standpoint, to have a culture of folks that want to be there, they have made the proactive choice to be, you know, as a company because you as a organization have fed into them. So I think that is so critical. And I also love the art and concept of the modern way of, you know, because in the past it very much was create the plan. 00:10:04:11 - 00:10:24:16 Unknown January 1st, it goes into effect. We revisit it in December and then see where we are right from a more modern approach. It's very much of what are your short term goals and then your stretch goals and your long term goals and how does that all feed into one another? Because again, it's not going to be a series of steps that, you know, everything aligns perfectly. 00:10:24:21 - 00:10:53:19 Unknown Sometimes it's this little, you know, nice shuffle along that works well and it's smooth. And then sometimes to get to that goal, if you've ever done a lunge, it's a deep lunge. You feel the burn and you're like, This is even painful at the moment, but you have to navigate through that to get to that next step. So being able to really understand like, you know, what can I do to make the lunge a little, you know, a little less of a knee is the way to go. 00:10:53:21 - 00:11:15:19 Unknown Yeah, well, Brittany, you hit on something that I think really highlights the connection also to another modern day thing, which is career pathing, as you mentioned, that growth and engagement. And as I was saying to I can do it, I'm going to do it somewhere. And I think as organizations we need to own that individuals are going to do it somewhere. 00:11:15:21 - 00:11:45:07 Unknown They can do it here or I can move on. If I didn't feel supported in that initiative and this is directly connected to modern day career path thing is no longer this concept of I grow the ladder, right? I come in as a individual contributor on this team. My goal is to become a supervisor of one of my teams in the department that does the work and then the department head and the vice president and I move up the ladder. 00:11:45:09 - 00:12:11:05 Unknown Now, career path thing is, I have knowledge and skills I want to learn, and sometimes that's in the space I'm in. Sometimes it's cross training over into marketing and I do some things for marketing and maybe I even foyer into a marketing role for a while because there are certain business skills that I want to grow in my own repertoire that the marketing type job role will give me, that my current role will not. 00:12:11:07 - 00:12:34:18 Unknown And that's another way, if I know to the modern goal setting, if I'm telling my leadership or my my supervisor, I want to learn how to be a great, a great strategist. And I'm trying to think of my own in filling seats for our public programs. And that's that's a big push. I want to learn how to help do that. 00:12:34:20 - 00:12:58:15 Unknown Well, I could either start shadowing and learning how to do sales things, or I could start shadowing and learning how to do marketing things. But it's a goal that isn't necessarily within my job role, that traditional you know, I've had coaching conversations with leaders in the past and organizations where it's hard for them to wrap their head around, but that's not what your job role is. 00:12:58:15 - 00:13:25:20 Unknown And so why would we throw energy into developing that if that's not what you do today? And I need you doing these things for the job and and the goal being instead reframe our thinking, amend. That's going to be a great benefit all around. And you as an individual are looking for that and and we can absolutely help you with that as it also reciprocally helps the organization have so much less siloed approach. 00:13:25:20 - 00:13:51:21 Unknown Right. Like it's not so much of like you're restricted to this, you're understanding the whole organization and seeing how all the pieces in the COG work. And in Brittany, you kind of mentioned support from the organization too with goal setting and that makes a lot of sense. It's much easier to work and achieve your goals when you both have and you have both your leader and your organization supporting you in those efforts. 00:13:51:23 - 00:14:25:24 Unknown And it looks like we do have one question in the chat kind of on this, and that is how is goal setting really help everyone in your organization that directed at us? We take that yeah yeah. From that approach Yeah you know it's interesting MRA has really done a wonderful job of creating these actionable goals that team leaders, of course will have like a waterfall goal, right, that we're doing for the department, which is also important even. 00:14:25:24 - 00:14:51:11 Unknown And we would not say in modern day goal setting, throw out the goals. That's where you lead, that we are here to continue to grow as a team as well as individually. But you also put in your own goals and then have these fluid conversations. One of the things I love organizationally is there is an encouragement of like we encourage you to touch base quarterly. 00:14:51:14 - 00:15:17:11 Unknown I will always say you should set some sort of cadence because if left to our own devices, some of us naturally are better at touching in than others. But it does not mean you can't go in and have goal conversations through this system. So we're leveraging technology to grow individually as a team or individually and as a team, rather, as well as just any time it comes up. 00:15:17:13 - 00:15:46:12 Unknown But the system we do leverage our systems for this does allow for individual growth conversations unrelated to your first biannual touch base and your annual performance review rate. And what I've seen and how it has helped. And I can only speak for our department. I haven't had cross conversations with other departments on how has this year goal setting gone for you and Sophie? 00:15:46:12 - 00:16:07:12 Unknown You can tag into on how it's gone for for your team. But what I have seen is this real feel that each of us are working individually on the things we need to work on individually. And there is some that account, some of that accountability piece, but we can see the progression. And then imagine looking back at the performance here and saying, You accomplish these things. 00:16:07:17 - 00:16:26:09 Unknown And so then we added another one and you accomplish that one too, because you wanted to, and then we added another one you cared about and been like, Now instead of the ones goal you accomplished personally in the set it and forget it. Strategy accomplished for personal goals plus our two team goals. That's a lot. That's a lot to celebrate. 00:16:26:13 - 00:16:48:15 Unknown And that's what I've seen is it's much more fluid. And so things drop off because they've been accomplished and then we add new ones because it's this fluid approach. Brittany You're also on the learning and development team here at MRA. Are you kind of the same thing that Amanda is saying or any other new thoughts and I am. 00:16:48:15 - 00:17:11:00 Unknown But I also want to add from my perspective, one of the things that I thought was the coolest from the MRA and goal setting standpoint was that there was actual conversation, right? Because how often have goals been assigned to folks or, you know, again, like it's kind of the less modern approach of like, how does this feed into what we need from an organizational standpoint? 00:17:11:00 - 00:17:33:03 Unknown And the conversations are have always been, you know, where do you feel like your strengths lie? What are some things you want? You know, your opportunity areas, What are your interests? Where would you like to grow to? And then how can we mesh all of that together to get you where you want to go? And the focus on the person was really, really impactful to me. 00:17:33:03 - 00:17:55:08 Unknown And it was one of the things that I thought, this is it makes an enormous difference. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. I actually coincidentally, I just had a conversation with my manager this morning on goals, had to align to look at that perfect timing, Brittany and me. And I can definitely attest to everything you're saying on that. 00:17:55:11 - 00:18:19:09 Unknown The accountability part is huge, and I would say that you have to hold yourself accountable, too, because some goals that you make and even organization wide goals, it is up to you as the individual to make sure you're staying on task with the goal and kind of keeping up with the progress. I mean, personally, for my goals, I, I have kind of a progress tracker that really helps. 00:18:19:11 - 00:18:37:02 Unknown Kind of like Amanda. You say writing down the goals really helps. Also keeping track of the progress really helps because maybe you set a goal early in the year and you're 55% of the way done. You don't want to wait to do that other 55% at the end of the year. You want to kind of keep that pace going. 00:18:37:02 - 00:19:09:16 Unknown So that was a good reminder this morning, kind of when I was talking to my manager on that. Well, and another thing I think about to that question of how we've seen it impact MRI as a whole, as I'm continuing to process and think through that too, where we were talking about personal professional goals being supported internally in an organization, we have a lot of folks that step into other projects or things that MRA as a whole wants to focus on and needs to focus on. 00:19:09:21 - 00:19:31:14 Unknown And we have someone that's raising their hand saying, I would love to do that. We have a team member that started helping doing stream maps for processes and things like that, kind of in a newer way that that's not typically the types of things they do internally in their own department, but they wanted to and they did it for every department within the organization. 00:19:31:14 - 00:20:08:03 Unknown And what a benefit that is, and it's an internal support. It was masterfully done and a huge outcome benefit plus a team member who is developed in a skill set. They want to do that. They wouldn't have had an opportunity otherwise. But because of our philosophy for how we goal set here, supporting your own personal professional goals and not having that, you're only allowed one, you know, not any of the restrictive mindsets because I've experienced that to where organizations say, Yeah, you have three department goals and one personal goal. 00:20:08:05 - 00:20:30:18 Unknown And then I'm like, Well, I'm really limited. And then they did the annual review and then you set your new goal. And I'm like, So I got one thing done this year, darn it. So this kind of blew it approach allows for a lot of growth. Absolutely. Those are all great examples and glad we covered that. Kind of moving on. 00:20:30:18 - 00:20:55:05 Unknown We've touched on this a little bit, but why is modernizing an organization's goal setting approach important? And do either of you have any talking points that our listeners can kind of take back to their leadership to bring this concept home? I mean, I think it's it's the it's the term that is used a lot and very applicable in this stage. 00:20:55:11 - 00:21:29:11 Unknown Engagement, engagement, engagement, retention, retention, retention. I think part of the beauty of a modernized approach to is it is inclusive of those that like the annual and I said a big goal that I think will take me 12 months to get to anyway is works for that because I'm still checking in on how you're doing. And for those of us that like more Sure shorter, shorter term you can tell I've been speaking for 20 minutes is shorter term achievable goals that build it works for that too. 00:21:29:11 - 00:21:56:18 Unknown So in terms of a strategy that engages all preference types, the answer is yes. And here's how we do that. So it can become very personal ties to the individual based on how they like their performance goals. Goals to work. I wouldn't tell someone. No, you have to. I've worked at an organization like that, too. You have to have a personal goal and it has to be unrelated to work in your. 00:21:56:20 - 00:22:25:22 Unknown It felt very forced and random because I didn't want it. It wasn't internally motivating to me. But when organizations do need to do regardless strategically is determine are our goals associated with any merit increases at the end of the year? If they are, how what is the meet needs it improvement meets and exceeds structure looked like so that this aligns with that. 00:22:26:01 - 00:23:01:14 Unknown Not that it's one or the other. You can do both. You just strategically have to make that decision so that we can align everything. And then you do have to because if left to our own devices, like I said before, some of us are better than others in touching base and having these conversations, even if it's fluid, because I might get really bogged down in the day to day and I forget to touch base and say, Hey, I know you wanted to work on flexing skills, needs, analysis, conversations and have we provided enough opportunities for you to do that? 00:23:01:14 - 00:23:30:15 Unknown How are you doing? How are you feeling? If I'm still in the day to day, which many of us get into naturally, because that's how work works, I won't set those conversations, so I will do a minimum expected cadence of touch basis. Often our accountability partners are managers minimum expectation with allowance that it can be much more fluid than that bringing in the other. 00:23:30:17 - 00:23:53:05 Unknown Yeah well and I agree. I agree with everything that Amanda said and then emphasis placed on the conversation. Right. So this is a partnership. It's not the managers dictate it. It's it's very much THRIVEn by the individual. But in a collaborative effort of like where can we make sure that everything does align? And then again, to continue to have those conversations? 00:23:53:07 - 00:24:11:16 Unknown Absolutely. Absolutely. And we do have one more question to cover here. Yeah. What is the best way to make sure team members that come in mid project are on the same page with the team's goals? You I love everything about that question. 00:24:11:18 - 00:24:34:15 Unknown I get really excited when they're like really great thought provoking questions. Burning. Do you mind if I dive in first at all? Get at it. I think first is catching them up to speed with I'm always going to go vision and every project has a vision. There is an end goal that this project is trying to create. And so what are we trying to create? 00:24:34:17 - 00:24:55:17 Unknown Where are we at? Where have we been? And then I think to your point, Brittany, what strengths do you bring to the table here and how do you think we can leverage them the best? And where do you want to grow? Because I happen to project sometimes where I know why I'm there. I'm aware of what I'm bringing to the table. 00:24:55:21 - 00:25:21:07 Unknown There are pieces that I know I'm not strong in. I'm hoping somebody else on the project team is strong in that. And then it being asked, What do I want to grow in? I would say for me it's analytics. So if I'm in a project and we're getting to the measurements of success piece and we're reviewing the data for measurements of success, that's not my strength, wink, because it's not my where I like to spend my energy and my time. 00:25:21:07 - 00:25:41:17 Unknown I love the visioning, I love the frontend, I love all of that stuff. Doesn't mean I can't do it because in my career I have to, but it's not my favorite space to be. So I don't know that I know the best ways to do it. So if I'm asking for a goal, it would be put me on that sub team within the project. 00:25:41:19 - 00:26:09:17 Unknown Who's running that piece? Can I partner with them and can they give me some tests to help? Because I want to get better at that for my own career growth. I think you bring up a good point with that too, Amanda, like making sure that the vision is there, but also again, having the conversation about what you know are your strengths and what are some areas that you want to grow because like the growth is on the other side of stretching yourself a little bit, right? 00:26:09:19 - 00:26:24:23 Unknown So as a manager and as a leader, how do you nudge your folks along to make sure that the vision is aligned and that they're bought in, but so that they're not just phoning it in because they can do it every day, day in and day out with their eyes closed. So how do you keep them engaged? Right. 00:26:24:23 - 00:26:45:12 Unknown So have that conversation to make sure that the vision is there were aligned on the vision. How can I get the most out of what you can do in your sleep, you know? And then how do we also kind of test you a little how do we nudge you along so that you're engaged, so that you want to do it right, so that you feel the build and even getting someone outside their comfort zone? 00:26:45:12 - 00:27:05:23 Unknown Because sometimes as a leader, you're going to have to kind of pull them along a little because they are maybe you're going to have some resistance there. But and it goes a long way with engagement and driving that vision forward. Yeah. Brittany, that's great advice. We have another chat question and listeners to keep on coming. How many goals is enough? 00:27:06:00 - 00:27:37:12 Unknown My advice on that down right? How many goals is enough? I would say a minimum of three. Like if, if I'm creating a structure, right, I would have, you know, a department goal at least that I've assigned someone. And then do they have a current job role goal? If I'm setting a cadence of expectation because even then left to our own devices, if you're going to ask me to if you ask me to set goals, I'll give you 50. 00:27:37:12 - 00:27:59:14 Unknown If you're going to ask my husband to set goals, he'll give you zero. They'll say, Just keep doing what I'm doing. So if you want to set up some sort of minimum expectation of three goals now, they don't have to. To my point earlier about someone, I worked in organization where I had to have a personal goal and had to be unrelated to my job and it had to how you had to. 00:27:59:16 - 00:28:18:01 Unknown And I wasn't motivated by it because I was checking a box. I would just say we have three goals. We're going to have a departmental goal that your team leader is going to assign to the department where each team has to do it, and then, you know, you and your accountability partner, your supervisor, can talk through what the other two are going to look like. 00:28:18:03 - 00:28:48:21 Unknown No more than. And this comes from strategic execution goals. No, it depends on your length of time, but I would say no more than seven. And if you're setting them ahead of time because you have to do your day to day job still and seven goals evaluate it not for anyone, especially if you have an overachiever that wants to set all seven on day one and spend the year getting through them all and then drop it. 00:28:48:22 - 00:29:18:04 Unknown Who, that would be a lot. So I would say best practices, no less than three, No more than seven at a time. Absolutely. Me Do you agree on that? I do. I'm a huge fan of the way. Three, right. Three is easy to absorb when you're giving information and easy to attain when you're talking about actionable steps on things, because you have to also factor in that as you set these goals, you're also going to be working with other people in life is going to happen, right? 00:29:18:04 - 00:29:38:11 Unknown So it's not like, I give myself seven goals or ten goals or 50 goals and it's just boom, boom, boom. I'm not going to model. It generally does not work that way right? So I think three is very manageable and it gives you a sense of accomplishment, like you want to see the progress. So I'm kind of wrapping up here. 00:29:38:11 - 00:29:58:04 Unknown We're closing in on time, but what are some actual steps that an organization can make quickly to kind of get that needle moving in the direction of modern day goal setting? If they don't really do that today? From my perspective, an organization like because I know Brittany has a great add on to this too, and I want to give her time. 00:29:58:04 - 00:30:25:24 Unknown So I'm going to be short for once, but just determine your strategy. So. All right. Off the bat, yes or no, do our goals equate to compensation? Do they have a connection? We need to know that because then we need to be very clear in what constitutes needs. Improvement means expectation or exceeds expectations. If it is a I do not encourage you to have that concern. 00:30:26:00 - 00:30:46:10 Unknown What constitutes it being? If you meet three goals, you need improvement. If you meet for because that changes the fluidity, it locks it back in. What I encourage you to do, if they do not connect to compensation, then you have a lot. Either way, you have a lot of freedom, but there's a lot more freedom because you can start implementing things. 00:30:46:10 - 00:31:13:11 Unknown Day one if your merit increases have already happened or are going to happen in the next couple of months, this would be a post that stretch strategic initiative to make that shift. And then in terms of needs, improvement, exceeds or meets expectations as it relates to goals, I would have them be the departmental and job performance goals, specifically, and personal goals are just cherry on top. 00:31:13:11 - 00:31:40:18 Unknown They don't actually hit your compensation piece. Those are the two depending on which arm you go down. Those are some of the quick actionable pieces to to put into place. There. But I know Brittany's got some something as well. So when you think about how do you then accomplish it and lay it out, right, Because that's the overarching this is what we want to do. 00:31:40:18 - 00:32:05:18 Unknown So there's a couple acronyms, which is smarter goals. But then there's also one that's fast goals, which really resonated with me. Like, I love that one because FAST stands for frequently discussed, ambitious, specific and transparent, right? So it feels very much even just the word fast that you're moving things along, because if you set a goal, sometimes it can feel very drawn out. 00:32:05:18 - 00:32:25:23 Unknown Even if it's a 90 day goal, it's like, How do I get to the end of this? Sometimes, you know, or or that three year goal? When am I going to get to that? When do I hit that level of achievement that I have really been working toward? So using that, that concept of fast so frequently discussed it does the relationship ambitious, it makes it a bit more aggressive. 00:32:26:01 - 00:32:48:22 Unknown Right? So instead of something just be timely and measurable. It's ambitious. Let's go ahead and reach for the stars. Why not write specific again and make sure that is things that you can attain and then transparent. Making sure that those conversation do happen, that other people are aware. So you have a team and cheerleaders behind you who doesn't want to be routed on, you know, as we as we move toward progress. 00:32:48:24 - 00:33:13:06 Unknown Absolutely. Yeah. That's all great advice and well, good good way to kind of close out today. So like I said, that is all the time we have. But thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in today for this live episode. This episode is recorded, so it will actually be published next week. So if you want to watch it again or you want to share it out, going to rewatch it, that will be available for you next week. 00:33:13:08 - 00:33:41:02 Unknown We also have some great episodes coming up over the next few weeks, including an episode on the year ahead with MRA's president and CEO Susan Frank, an episode on 2024 Trends and a lot more so make sure to kind of look out for those episodes. You can find MRA's 30 minute Thrive podcast on your favorite podcast app. You can go to YouTube or you can go to MRA's website at mranet.org. 00:33:41:04 - 00:34:01:09 Unknown Amanda and Brittany, thank you so much for joining us live today. I really appreciate all your insights and your expertise to our listeners. Have a great day and have a great rest of your week and we will see you for the next episode. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. 00:34:01:09 - 00:34:16:14 Unknown For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

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Description: FMLA is one of our top requested topics from our 30 minute Thrive podcast subscribers. We are glad to have this opportunity to talk about the complexities of FMLA eligibility, outlining who qualifies, and exploring the spectrum of covered events. This episode will help provide some clarity on navigating leave requirements!  Resources: FMLA Toolkit  FMLA Made Simple - Training  HR and Employment Law Essentials - Training  FMLA: Tips for Tackling 5 Everyday Challenges - Training  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Rob Lapota  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Rob Lapota  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:46:09 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. FMLA is one of our top requested topics from our podcast subscribers, so no pressure on today's guest, but we're really glad to have this opportunity to talk about all of the complexities of FMLA eligibility, outlining who qualifies and exploring the spectrum of covered events. 00:00:46:11 - 00:01:12:21 Unknown So our goal really for today's podcast is to help provide some clarity to you on federal FMLA. So I'm joined by Rob Lapota HR director, part of MRA Learning and Development Team. Rob, you have over 30 years of HR experience. You've answered more than 15,000 member calls on the HR hotline, and you're recognized as one of the top knowledge experts on our topic for today. 00:01:12:21 - 00:01:33:09 Unknown And that's a federal FMLA scrub. I'm really excited to have you here today as the subject matter expert and thanks for joining us. Thank you for asking me to be here today. And welcome to everybody for our interesting talk. Yes, I like I like to tell people in our training program with FMLA made simple, get your notebook out because you're gonna be taking a lot of notes. 00:01:33:11 - 00:01:56:03 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. Get them out. Well, Rob, let's kind of start out with the big overarching question here, and that is what is FMLA. I know we have a lot of HR Professionals obviously, who listen to the podcast, who know what FMLA is, but some of our other listeners who may not be in that HR professional may not know exactly what FMLA is. 00:01:56:03 - 00:02:28:15 Unknown So can you kind of just give us an overarching picture? So we start out the first acronym, FMLA. First, let's talk about that Family Medical Leave Act. So that took on a federal basis, that was a law. Those passed back in 1993. And it impacts employers that have 50 or more employees anywhere in the United States. Here's a kind of like a short definition of here's what the law is all about 12 weeks of unpaid leave with no penalty to the employee. 00:02:28:17 - 00:03:01:09 Unknown Now, that sounds like a very simple one sentence definition of what is FMLA, but they're in wise the complexity, the no penalty to the employee. That's a challenging aspect of the law. And what qualifies as a reason for taking FMLA. That's the other big challenging portion. And then the overriding complexity of this law by the employee when I'm going to be off of work, I don't ask for FMLA. 00:03:01:11 - 00:03:19:15 Unknown So, for example, if you are a supervisor, I don't call in and say, Hey, Sophia, it's Rob. Last night, my daughter, she was knocked unconscious in a soccer match, but she's actually been admitted to Children's Hospital in Milwaukee. That's where I am right now. I'll give you a call a little bit later today and I'll give you an update on what's going on. 00:03:19:17 - 00:03:48:12 Unknown That said, I the employee is not mandatory under the law for me, the employee to say, and by the way, Sophia, why don't you give me some of the FMLA stuff? The way the federal law is written, it is the employer's responsibility in all circumstances to designate leave as FMLA qualifying. So therefore, because of the complexity, that's what makes it our number one call on our hotline. 00:03:48:18 - 00:04:14:22 Unknown Yeah, I was shocked. Over 20% of our calls are just on FMLA. I was just going to mention that this is one of our top calls on the HR hotline and still remains to be. Yes. And we've had some topics on the podcast on FMLA, just because it is one of our most highly requested topics. And like you said, there's so many different complexities within that, even though that one sentence you gave us seems so simple, it's not as simple as you may think for experts. 00:04:14:24 - 00:04:42:16 Unknown What factors and determine an employee's eligibility for FMLA, FMLA leave? And how does an employer ensure compliance with these criteria? So there's several criteria. And the first is I need to be working at a covered employer for FMLA. And a covered employer is one that has 50 or more employees on their payroll anywhere in the United States. And it also includes temporary employees from a temp service. 00:04:42:18 - 00:05:02:13 Unknown So if I have 25 employees that are on my payroll and I use 25 from a temp service, I actually have 50 employees for federal employee purposes. I'm covered by the law. So for an eligible employee, first of all, I have to be working for a covered employer. Then I have several other criteria that need to be met. 00:05:02:15 - 00:05:24:20 Unknown Number one, I need to be working for at least 12 months for that employer. Number two, I work at least 1250 hours in the 12 months prior to my need for leave. And third, I have to be working at a facility that has 50 or more employees within a 75 mile radius. Now, again, just like that, a little definition I can give you FMLA. 00:05:24:22 - 00:05:46:18 Unknown Well, that seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? But there's a lot of twists and turns within those definitions. So, for example, the 12 months service on a federal level, it need not be consecutive. So I could be working, for example, as a college intern. As for an organization, let's say, in marketing and work for four summers in a row of three months each summer. 00:05:46:20 - 00:06:12:17 Unknown And we're recording this in December. So let's say that I'm graduating in December. I'm going to start with the employer January of 2024. Well, you actually cannot my three months of service going back four years because it's a seven year lookback period. Okay. So here's the strange thing. Effective January 2nd, 2024, since my official start date, I'll actually have 12 months of service for that employer. 00:06:12:19 - 00:06:38:19 Unknown The same thing goes when people leave organizations. Let's just say I worked at an employer from 2015 to 2020 and then I get rehired on January 2nd, 2024, by that same employer. Well, again, there could be up to a seven year break in service. That's well within that. So I will actually have 12 months of service on my first day of employment reemployment, I should say, with that employer. 00:06:38:21 - 00:07:04:09 Unknown Second of all, the 1250 hours that is paid time only, that does not include things like holiday pay, PTO, sick pay, self-funded short term disability payments. Those are not included. And that's it's just actual work hours. And then the third criteria, this is and again, another strange one. I work in a facility that has 50 or more employees within a 35 mile radius. 00:07:04:11 - 00:07:33:03 Unknown Well, let's just take it for plain value. Let's say that we have an organization that has three facilities. They're all within 75 miles of each other. And one employs 30, another one employees 20 and a third facility. Employees 20 there, or that's 70 employees. So if I work at any of those facilities, I'm working in a facility that has 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. 00:07:33:05 - 00:07:57:02 Unknown Now, that's also extended to include remote employees and all that's since COVID. You know, a lot of remote work going on. And still today, the little twist with that, I'm included in the headcount where I get my work instructions from. So here we are. We're in Waukesha, Wisconsin, recording our program. And this is our call, our corporate offices for me. 00:07:57:04 - 00:08:28:20 Unknown So let's say that I live in Iowa and I work remotely, but I report to my manager, who is here in the Waukesha, Wisconsin, location for the 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. I'm actually counted in the Waukesha, Wisconsin, head count for FMLA eligibility. Now, some employers don't have that. They might have facilities for example, in one state that are not within 75 miles of each other. 00:08:28:22 - 00:08:53:11 Unknown And we don't have 50 employees within that 75 mile radius. However, they still have 50 total employees. So they're covered employers under the law for now. What do you do? I'm a covered employer, but I literally I don't have any eligible employees because we don't work at a facility that has 50 employees within a 35 mile radius. What do we do? 00:08:53:13 - 00:09:14:08 Unknown Well, if I was your head of HR What i would recommend is that we treat all of our locations as though we have 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. This could also become a little bit of an employer relations issue. Let's say that one of those facilities has 125 employees, and the other ones are outside of the 75 mile radius. 00:09:14:09 - 00:09:42:14 Unknown Let's just say they have, you know, 40 employees each. Well, during employment meetings, I've had this happen before. Our plant that has 125 people that's going to be eligible employees, got 50 employees within a 75 mile radius, the location being C, we're not going to call you covered employers, eligible employees. Excuse me, because you don't work at a facility that has 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. 00:09:42:16 - 00:10:05:19 Unknown So too bad, so sad you lose. Well, for an employer relations standpoint, we need to go have your employee meetings. The employees are company B and C are going to immediately throw their hands up in the air to go. Why does everybody at location, age, how come they get FMLA and we don't get FMLA? Well, you got to understand, you don't work at a facility that's 50 employees with a 75 mile radius. 00:10:05:21 - 00:10:29:16 Unknown That's an employee relations disaster. So that's why I suggest mandatory. But I suggest you treat those locations as though they do have 50 employees within a 75 mile radius. Absolutely. And I love that you're giving those scenarios because that that helps helps a little more to, I don't know, understand. I'm sure a lot of people have these certain situations, laws to absorb. 00:10:29:18 - 00:10:54:19 Unknown So are there any common misconceptions? And with FMLA eligibility that you often encounter kind of sees or working with members in, how can these kind of be clarified? Then the biggest misconceptions for the employee eligibility portion it covers around those the areas of tribute to a seven year break in service. So the example I gave that I'm a college student working in marketing Pimp. 00:10:54:24 - 00:11:14:16 Unknown I work for you through 2020 Rehire Me. A lot of employers are not aware I have 12 months service effective on day one. And the other big misconception about eligibility, All of our members of MRA, they will work on what's called a temp to perm basis, or they'll have employees from a temporary service work for like 90 days. 00:11:14:16 - 00:11:41:11 Unknown And if they work out, they'll put them on their payroll. Well, that's a situation called Joint Employment. So for those temporary employees that we put on our payroll, effective on day one, the hours that they worked and the months of service that they worked actually do count towards their eligibility of 12 months of service and 1250 hours worked through like a walking book of knowledge, you know, like that's what they're on. 00:11:41:11 - 00:12:00:05 Unknown Tell me. Yeah. I've even had some people tell me I know a little bit too much about FMLA, I think, but that's why you're the perfect guest here. You can answer your question. So I have an advantage. I've been in here at Emory 25 years. Yes. As an instructor. We're not attorneys here, but I love the law. I read a lot of court. 00:12:00:06 - 00:12:19:11 Unknown I mean, I've read thousands and thousands of court cases. Keep up with employment blogs, Talk about FMLA. Jeff Nowak is one of the top people in the United States at his blog FMLA Insights. And yeah, I just I actually find it very fascinating. Well, that's right. And you probably get a lot of calls, too, on FMLA, where you are. 00:12:19:11 - 00:12:42:12 Unknown You want to kind of give those scenarios. And here's what I would do in that situation kind of thing. Correct. So next question here. In what situations might employees find themselves ineligible then for federal FMLA leave? And do you have any alternatives or options that may be available to them that you can suggest? So go back to the eligibility requirements. 00:12:42:12 - 00:13:00:04 Unknown I worked for you for 12 months and I have at least 1250 hours worked in the 12 months prior. And we already kind of explained that 50 employees within the 35 mile radius once we don't need to hit that one. That would be a point of ineligibility that I don't can, you know, work there. So let's focus on those first two. 00:13:00:06 - 00:13:26:24 Unknown So for the hours of work, let's say that I get what's the score? January 2nd, 2024, since it's right around the corner here. Let's say that it's my first day of work. Let's see. Then in March 2024, I'm diagnosed with cancer. They catch it early. It's not very advanced, but I do need to miss work or radiation treatments and then, if necessary, to recover from those radiation treatments. 00:13:27:01 - 00:13:50:22 Unknown Well, I still have to send me as the new employee who's only been there for three months now, I still need to get an eligibility notice from the employer. There's three mandatory notices that need to go out, so I need to get that eligibility notice. It states you're not eligible for FMLA, federal FMLA. Why You haven't been here 12 months as of the date of your need for lead. 00:13:50:22 - 00:14:15:19 Unknown This is on the eligibility notice. You've worked X months towards 12 months of eligibility, so the employer would write three months in their hours of work. If I am working part time, I could be working for you for over a year. But again, if I don't have that 1250 actual work hours, that could be our second issue, where I will not be eligible as the employee. 00:14:15:21 - 00:14:39:14 Unknown Now in our training, I always told employers, if you can't give FMLA, if it doesn't qualify, it's an issue that's not covered by FMLA. We need to be much more flexible as employers today with time off and adjusting schedules and what other policies to you have as an employer so that employee can have time off. Maybe you have a policy. 00:14:39:15 - 00:15:06:01 Unknown It's called a force substitution policy. You must use any accrued, unused PTO, whatever you're going to be missing work. Maybe that's what'll be implemented. Maybe there's a personal leave of absence that can be used now if it's for the employee's own medical issues. For example, the cancer that I gave you that's actually now going to fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act. 00:15:06:03 - 00:15:42:13 Unknown Now we have an employee who's suffering with cancer, which is considered a disability, and they're not eligible for FMLA. So we would actually need to provide unpaid leave as an accommodation under the American Disabilities Act. So I'm going to get a eligibility notice. You're not eligible for FMLA, but then I'm also going to receive a cover letter I should from the employer saying, okay, although you're not eligible for FMLA, you are covered under the American Disabilities Act and we will be providing you with unpaid leave as an accommodation under that law. 00:15:42:18 - 00:16:09:24 Unknown So it's very, very important that the employer state specifically what laws are applying during what time of their lives. Interesting. Yeah, well, that's great to know. And I know you've covered this a little bit in her past. Questions, uncertainty, examples of medical leaves. But do you have any other examples that are covered instances or events under FMLA? And are there specific nuance says for each type of leave. 00:16:10:01 - 00:16:13:21 Unknown So how much time do we have? 00:16:13:23 - 00:16:37:00 Unknown This is worth over a long problem. This is where we're getting into the nuts and bolts of the mechanics of FMLA that can get very, very complicated. We were very, very fast. So let's try to summarize this for our listeners and our viewers. So I like to refer to these as buckets of leave. So there's nine completely different buckets of leave. 00:16:37:02 - 00:16:59:23 Unknown All of them can have completely different operating orders. For example, when does that one come into impact? You know, when are we when do we apply to excuse me, I said that when do we apply that particular need for leave? How do we certify it? How long will that individual be off of work? And here's again, another big misunderstanding on employers. 00:17:00:00 - 00:17:22:15 Unknown And I hear this now. I've been doing this for 25 years. The law has been in place for over 30 years now. I will still have no, I'm not surprised. Managers and supervisors in our supervisor in the law, of course, are FMLA overview class and even HR People in our FMLA simple administration class for FMLA. So how long do you need to be off of work in order for FMLA to apply? 00:17:22:15 - 00:17:49:24 Unknown Her hands go up and they go, I know, I know, I know. You have to be out of work. Three consecutive workdays, and then when you're out for three consecutive workdays, that's when FMLA applies. The answer is, No, it doesn't. But I was like, No, nice try. No, no, it doesn't. In fact, all of the buckets of leave except for one can actually be taken in our concurrence. 00:17:50:01 - 00:18:17:11 Unknown wow. So let's talk about the one that you do need to have multiple days of absence, because this is a common one that happens in this particular book. It's called Continuing treatment. And part of this bucket of leave, i.e., the employee need to be out for four consecutive calendar days or I'm off of work taking care of the same family member for four consecutive calendar days. 00:18:17:13 - 00:18:36:21 Unknown Now, it's tricky about this bucket is that this is the only one where the employee can actually just call in and say, I'm sick and it could be FMLA. You know, the reason why we said could be FMLA once it meets these requirements for these particular buckets, well, then the employer response. Remember I said earlier, the employee doesn't ask. 00:18:36:21 - 00:19:02:15 Unknown The employer responds with all the mandatory notices, but all these absences need to be documented with a certification form. None of this is done verbally. It's all documented. So how we use that medical certification form. So, Sophia, it's Rob. It's Monday. Soviets. Rob, I'm sick. I'm not going to be in today. That's not FMLA Tuesday. Sophia, it's Rob. 00:19:02:15 - 00:19:27:07 Unknown I'm still sick. I won't be in today no matter familiar. Now, Wednesday. Sophie Last night, my wife took me to urgent care. I don't have COVID, but I've got some sort of a respiratory thing that's going around. I actually feel worse not going to be in today. We're not there yet. Again, the way the law defines this particular bucket, it says more than three consecutive calendar days of incapacity. 00:19:27:09 - 00:19:55:15 Unknown So literally what that means is I need to call in four days in a row. So now, Thursday. Hey, Sophie, it's Rob. I'm still not feeling good. I'm not going to be in today. Now use my manager. I notify our leave administrator. Could be HR Could be somebody else. Payroll, maybe. And that starts the familiar paperwork process. Okay, so once the employer's notified of my need for leave, which in this case would be Thursday. 00:19:55:17 - 00:20:20:06 Unknown Now, the employer has five business days from that date to give me the eligibility notice. Then rights, responsibilities notice a medical certification form goes along as well, and that needs to be returned within 15 calendar days. And then after that time period ends, there's a third mandatory notice called the designation notice. So this is really it's a paperwork here. 00:20:20:06 - 00:20:44:01 Unknown It really, really is. So we the employer, we act on that fourth day of absence Now for this particular bucket, in order to be covered by FMLA, the employee would have to go see a health care provider medical certification form and need to be returned within 15 calendar days. And on their certification form, it's documented. They were out for four consecutive calendar days or more. 00:20:44:03 - 00:21:07:21 Unknown They saw a doctor in person tell the visits are included in that and they got a prescription medication that's like 90% of the certain forms I've seen in the past. The other could be they saw a health care provider two times in person. When that's documented, that then would be qualified and can be marked as FMLA for that particular employee. 00:21:07:23 - 00:21:29:11 Unknown So the key there for consecutive days of absence calendar days. If I work Friday, I'm off Saturday and Sunday. Friday. So if it's Rob, I'm sick. I won't be in today. I don't work Saturday and Sunday. Monday. So if it's where I am sick, I won't be in today. Believe it or not, under the law, that's considered more than three consecutive days. 00:21:29:11 - 00:21:51:24 Unknown I mean, capacity that actually starts the FMLA paperwork process. Now, the way that the employee says I don't want FMLA. Yeah. Is they never return their medical certification form. Their employer still needs to go through all the paperwork, all those monitoring notices. But eventually you're going to get a designation notice at the end that says absences for these four days, not FMLA. 00:21:52:01 - 00:22:14:19 Unknown Why you didn't return a medical certification form. So that's that's just one bucket, the only one where you can call in sick. And these are short term illnesses and injuries. Now, there isn't a list that I can give you that does not exist, but this could be the area like colds, ear infections, pinkeye. COVID falls into this bronchitis. 00:22:14:21 - 00:22:40:08 Unknown You strange your back moving grandmas are more. Over the weekend you went skiing and you broke both of your arms and you can't work. And it's going to be about 6 to 8 weeks for your bones to heal. So these are short term illnesses and injuries. And a remember for either the employee or covered family member, which would include a spouse, children or parents and then stepparents as well. 00:22:40:10 - 00:23:08:08 Unknown So that's that's one particular bucket. Things like pregnancy covered by FMLA, even absences for prenatal visits or morning sickness, those are covered by FMLA. Anything to do with adoption or foster care placements, those are all covered by FMLA, any pre placement issues that need to happen, court medical evaluations, traveling to different countries, post adoption, post foster care placement, being with them. 00:23:08:10 - 00:23:32:03 Unknown That's covered by FMLA to stay. So let's talk now about the number one headache. And I don't mean to be a pun with that, the number one headache under FMLA is a bucket called chronic conditions. So short term illnesses and injuries, that's the continuing treatment. It's got to have at least three consecutive days. I mean, capacity, chronic conditions. 00:23:32:03 - 00:24:01:20 Unknown However, these are long term or permanent medical conditions. Okay. The employee or the covered family member are probably on some sort of a medication. And with our certification forms, it's very typical for these chronic conditions to be certified for up to a year. And what we need to look for on the certification form, it's actually the last question on the certification form, and it's the area called frequency and duration. 00:24:01:22 - 00:24:24:04 Unknown So the number one medical issue that we get in our hotline is migraine headaches. So as migraines, we send them to their health care provider, they bring back the medical certification form. We're going to go look back at that frequency and duration frequency. How many times a month is this issue going to happen? Duration? How long will any event last? 00:24:24:06 - 00:24:48:05 Unknown Well, the search form states 1 to 2 episodes per month, 1 to 2 days per episode. That means that that employee could be up to four days of FMLA per month, though. Here's why This is the most complicated bucket to deal with. And actually for managers and supervisors, the most frustrating bucket to deal with. When's that employee going to have the next migraine? 00:24:48:07 - 00:25:17:03 Unknown When is their child going to have their next seizure? You don't we don't know. And there's never a good day to be off of work. Yeah. Now, sadly, this is also the bucket where occasionally we may have an employee that will be a little bit abusive with us. For example, Fridays and Mondays is a pattern of absences days before and after paid holidays, even vacation time to make some sort of an extended period of time offering. 00:25:17:06 - 00:25:40:08 Unknown Now that does happen, but thankfully it's not a very large portion of our employees that are using FMLA, But it's going to be the most frustrating one that we have now. Please keep in mind that all these different areas that we're talking about do not require multiple days of absence. These can all be hourly, right? So I think right now it's about 10:30 a.m.. 00:25:40:10 - 00:25:59:08 Unknown I can give you a call or I can come over to you by your office and say, Hey, Sophie, I feel my IBS about to act up your irritable bowel syndrome. I need to get out here and get home. You know, I go home and if I work until 3:00, you can charge me 6 hours of FMLA. So I can charge half a million hourly increments. 00:25:59:10 - 00:26:25:21 Unknown So it's not missing holidays, chronic back parking. It could be parts of days, leaving work early, coming to work late because of that chronic condition. And again, this is why that particular area of leave, that's the most frustrating for employers. These are long term. So I've been in Emory 25 years and let's say that I have the migraines up to four days a month of FMLA. 00:26:25:23 - 00:26:48:22 Unknown Well, if I'm working 12 weeks of leave at my work schedule, that's five days per week, 12 weeks, that's 60 individual days. I work 8 hours a day. That's 480 hours of FMLA. Or if my health care provider certifies me as for four migraines a month for, you know, total days of migraines, well, four times 12 is 48 days. 00:26:48:24 - 00:27:11:12 Unknown I didn't really use up all of my FMLA that I'm eligible for. I still have 12 days left. Once I'm eligible for FMLA for the next 24 years, I could be missing 48 days for migraines, unscheduled partial days coming in late. And there's very little that you can do as an employer. That's why that's one of the most frustrating. 00:27:11:14 - 00:27:37:18 Unknown Now i always told managers and supervisors and HR People when we talk about this frustrating bucket that we take a little bit of pause here. Everyone struggles with this. They all know exactly what i'm talking about and we get upset with these employees and somehow we try to do something to make that person's life miserable. I'm leaving now of irritable bowel syndrome. 00:27:37:20 - 00:28:11:17 Unknown You look at me and you raise your eyebrows and half by suppose under the law, there's two legal things that can happen interference of my ability to take leave and retaliation for taking that leave. So a story that I had an actual event, a manager for a manufactured usual. It's the last week of the month. We do a lot to get everything out, got to get our orders shipped and we're try to get as much as possible. 00:28:11:17 - 00:28:41:22 Unknown So end of the month for a manufacturer, that's a big deal. So on the beginning Monday of the last week of the month, individual again suffered with migraines and this person typically was off at the end of the month because their migraines were stress induced. So on Monday, the manager has pre shift meetings always. So on this Monday morning meeting Cavs all the employees together and talks about the week and the jobs that they're working on right now. 00:28:41:22 - 00:29:01:09 Unknown Then at the very end of the meeting he goes now as you know this is the last week of the month we got a couple new customers. We got to make sure that we get this out the door to make these people happy. And then he looked directly at the individual with migraines right into their eyes and said, and I'm counting on everyone to be here this week. 00:29:01:11 - 00:29:26:19 Unknown Now, I do say kudos to the employee. Actually, congratulations. Employee they went right to their HR Department and they said the right thing. My manager just threatened me that i better not have a migraine this week. So i got that call on the hard line. And the member's question was, did her supervisor create any problems? Yeah. And the answer is, you bet they did. 00:29:26:19 - 00:29:51:03 Unknown They are now interfering with that person's right to take leave. I think I forgot to mention this before when I was kind of going on with another explanation that's really tell about people. The chronic bucket. You might be frustrated with your employees understand you might be here one day right now. Although my time here at MRA, I've actually had three major surgeries, two shoulder surgeries and a major back surgery. 00:29:51:05 - 00:30:15:16 Unknown So I was actually off of work and using FMLA, and none of that was held against me. The revenue lost my coworkers that need to substitute for my training aren't seats. They couldn't get booked because I was not available so that the lost revenue. None of that can be held against that employee. So again, that's that time off unpaid with no penalty to the employee. 00:30:15:16 - 00:30:37:04 Unknown That's why it's a very simple statement. But there's a lot to that implication of the workplace. So we saw the continuing treatment, the chronic conditions at school. We see a lot of her mileage when you use now the other buckets. So we have the employee who literally needs to see something medical. For example, a parent has stroke and end up in the hospital. 00:30:37:06 - 00:31:04:13 Unknown So inpatient hospitalizations, anything to do with nursing homes or hospice care, including home hospice care covered by FMLA? My mom has structures in the hospital that is way, way beyond I'm sick or opiate work today. It's very, very specific issues like dealing with end stage of life covered by FMLA. If the employee needs time off, not the bereavement part, but if I need time off to be with that family member. 00:31:04:15 - 00:31:31:13 Unknown Severe arthritis and getting treatment, for example, physical therapy. How can you dialysis reconstructive surgery after an accident or a cancer? So the reasons for leave are very, very specific medical reasons. Yeah. Now under the law, there's actually two additional military related leaves. One's got a really unusual name called military exigency leave, and the other one's called Care for Recovered Servicemember. 00:31:31:15 - 00:31:54:08 Unknown Now those are for family members of the employee of a covered employer that can take time off when that family member is either deployed on active duty or is injured or become sick because of their active duty deployment. Now, on our hotline in my training programs for the last several years, I have not had any examples of those. 00:31:54:10 - 00:32:11:02 Unknown So if you have an employee that comes in and says, Hey, my son's being deployed in the military, can I get some time off? Well then that said military exigency. You deal with that at that point. But that that's the summary for those two conditions. Basically that is the area of the coverage and a quick summary for our familiar leave. 00:32:11:04 - 00:32:35:14 Unknown All that was a lot. So I hope you all were writing the writing notes. TSA at the beginning, get your notepad out. I take a lot of notes like now would be a perfect time for a pop quiz or something. Right now, let's take a break and look at all your notes so far. But moving on here, what advice do you have for employers navigating intermittent FMLA leave requests and balancing business needs with employee rights? 00:32:35:16 - 00:32:52:23 Unknown So here again with our examples with that chronic condition is probably we're going to see that most often with the intermittent leaves, it can happen with the other areas of leave as well. Let's focus on those products. Yeah, once I'm certified by my health care provider, there's actually very little that an employer can do to manage those situations. 00:32:53:00 - 00:33:16:24 Unknown However, if we do have patterns of potential abuse, there are a few things that we can do as an employer to deal with those abuse issues, and it's a little bit too much for our little overview that we're doing today. But there's a couple things that we can do as employers other than just catching the person an outright fraud, fraudulent use of leave. 00:33:17:01 - 00:33:40:10 Unknown Yeah, it's a bunch of hurdles that we need to come to deal with that specific issues. Yeah, absolutely. Well, kind of wrapping up here, Rob, we've talked a lot a lot today about FMLA and just kind of the overarching picture. But can you end with any insights and best practices for employers to ensure smooth and fair practice regarding FMLA eligibility in covered events? 00:33:40:12 - 00:34:04:19 Unknown So, number one are HR People who are administering FMLA, you need to be trained on how to administer properly. Now that's what we here at emory. We have our FMLA made simple class where we deal with that issue for our managers and supervisors training as well. Not how to administer FMLA but understanding what do i need to listen for those buckets of leave that starts the FMLA process? 00:34:04:21 - 00:34:26:07 Unknown And then also, what does it mean that I have no penalty under the leave and also of the basic rights are under the law. So training and awareness are two big compliance tools that we need to use. Yes, absolutely. It also lets mention about training employees. I've had this brought up many, many times during my training programs on FMLA. 00:34:26:09 - 00:34:53:00 Unknown Well, Rob, this is a really complicated law, so can you come to our organization and just do like a one hour overview for our employees? Well, first of all, the law doesn't state any mandatory training for our employees. In fact, it assumes that any mandatory training for HR People are mandatory. The supervisors but unfortunately, it's not required. You're putting the posters up, responding to the requests when they come in properly. 00:34:53:00 - 00:35:15:08 Unknown That's the way that we deal with FMLA. We have to be very careful about training our employees because if we just did an explanation of what we just covered, literally, you're going to open a Pandora's box. Hey, do you know how to be off on FMLA? Here's how you do it. No, I'm not saying that with a cold shoulder or unsympathetic, but we don't want to encourage the issues. 00:35:15:10 - 00:35:35:19 Unknown We've had a lot of situations in the past where the entire shipping department all of a sudden, though, has chronic depression. because that word spreads, right? So we don't need to encourage that. But again, the majority of our cases that we deal with under FMLA, people legitimately do have medical issues of themselves or a covered family member, and they really do need that time on. 00:35:35:19 - 00:36:04:00 Unknown Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure you've seen a lot and heard a lot of story. Well, Rob, I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and thank you for sharing your expertise on FMLA specifically, like I mentioned, this is a highly requested topic, so I appreciate you coming on the podcast today to cover that. And to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, I would urge you to come and something new that you learned today or anything that you'd like to add on to this conversation. 00:36:04:00 - 00:36:27:15 Unknown We'd love to hear, hear from you. Don't forget to share out this episode. Consider joining MRA If you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below, including resources on our topic for today and training links. So check those out. And we've also included Rob's bio and LinkedIn profile. So if you'd like to connect with him, we've got the resources for you to do that. 00:36:27:17 - 00:36:50:12 Unknown Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in and thanks again, Rob. Thanks for having me. Here's a lot of fun and we'll see you next week for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other Emery episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA 30 minute Thrive so you don't miss out. 00:36:50:13 - 00:36:55:05 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Sun Roesslein is the newly appointed President of the Sports Field Management Association (SFMA), based right here in the Denver metropolitan area. SFMA is a non-profit dedicated to empowering and providing resources for the professionals who oversee sports fields at pro stadiums, universities, K-12 schools, and local parks and recreation facilities. These are the highly-trained individuals who ensure that...

Description: Join us as we unravel the key components of a successful succession plan, offering insights into: Identifying and developing internal talent Fostering a culture of continuous learning Mitigating potential risks Learn how to navigate leadership transitions and ensure the long-term success of your organization through effective succession planning strategies. Resources: The Business Case for Succession Planning  Succession Planning Program  Succession Planning Guide  Succession Planning Tracking Chart  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Dana Vogelmeier  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Dana Vogelmeier  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:45:18 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. So today we're going to be talking about succession planning, and I found this stat a bit shocking. So every day in the US, 10,000 people turn 65. And to add to that stat, the average retirement age in the United States is 61, according to a 2022 Gallup survey. 00:00:45:20 - 00:01:07:17 Unknown So those are all pretty significant numbers in the world of work. So the impact is huge. Today, like I said, it only makes sense now that we're here to talk about succession planning. So succession planning is a business necessity, and it's as critical to strategic planning for business as a whole. But succession planning is not just about retirees. 00:01:07:17 - 00:01:36:22 Unknown And it's not just for CEOs in leadership. It's also a part of employee development. So it's a really great topic of discussion for us today. And I'm 30 minutes Right podcast. And a lot of you a lot of our listeners have actually requested this topic. So we will finally get into it and we're excited. And I'm here with Dana Vogelmeier, MRA senior instructional designer who's worked with our members to help develop and implement succession planning programs. 00:01:36:24 - 00:02:00:07 Unknown So, Dana, I'm super excited to have you on today and thanks for coming coming on the podcast as the expert and really covering how to create that successful succession planning. Thank you so being happy to be here. So, well, let's just start out by defining what business succession planning really is and why it's essential for business owners. Okay, sure. 00:02:00:09 - 00:02:22:21 Unknown So succession planning, as you mentioned earlier, it is it's critical and it is something that sometimes gets kind of pushed to the background because it feels like it's not important work. But if you think about the sustainability for an organization, it is really one of those critical things we should do. And succession planning is it's a process of talent identification. 00:02:22:23 - 00:02:52:02 Unknown So we dedicate time to looking at all of the people in our organization and who has what kinds of skills, what kind of potential or performance do they have, what do they need, and then get them what they need. We'll talk about that too. But it's really just first about identifying what that what the talent is in the organization, what it is not is a process to go through for determining who you're going to hire for a role. 00:02:52:02 - 00:03:20:12 Unknown That's that's different. This is about putting documentation together and determining what kind of talent and skills you have in the organization and then what people need and then getting them the development that they need. Absolutely. You highlighted a lot of good points there, and I feel like something to emphasize is to not put this planning on the back burner because I feel like we've heard that a lot with challenges on succession planning is, I didn't think of it till now or we're not ready. 00:03:20:12 - 00:03:52:06 Unknown So I'm glad today we can help with those steps and kind of that preplanning process. So kind of the next step then, what are some key components of a successful business succession plan? Tongue twister. Yeah, it is a tongue twister. Yeah. So some of the kind of key components to think about are identifying critical roles that you might have in the organization where if for some reason there was a gap there and someone had left, the organization like that would really create a problem. 00:03:52:06 - 00:04:11:00 Unknown So what kinds of critical roles do you have? What kind of niche roles do you have where it's hard to find a good pool of candidates with that skill set might be super unique. You know, you want to identify that. You also want to, as one of these key components, think about business challenges that you either currently have or are coming. 00:04:11:02 - 00:04:30:24 Unknown So an example might be you currently have this issue of we're in the middle of expanding. Maybe we only do operations on the East Coast. We're going to expand to the West Coast or only in the U.S. We're going to go global, you know, like so that might be something you're in the middle of, but also looking out and that could be part of your strategic planning process. 00:04:30:24 - 00:04:55:00 Unknown And you learned some information there. So bring that information in to your succession planning and think about there's a new law that's going into effect that might impact your industry. There could be a new competitor that is entering the marketplace. There could be some kind of restrictions or maybe you experience some supply chain issues or one of your big suppliers is going out of business. 00:04:55:02 - 00:05:25:08 Unknown You know, those business challenges that are going to impact you, how does that impact your succession planning and some of the things? Well, some of the things may not, but do you have people with that knowledge about how this is going to impact the organization? So you're really kind of looking at the the areas where you might have some deficiencies in knowledge and skills, talent and how how we can maybe make a plan to start addressing that. 00:05:25:10 - 00:05:50:04 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. And you talk about plan and process. So follow up question to that is what would a typical process really look like? Yeah, so this is a good question. And what I will say about like the process to think about, I'm going to give you a good example of a process that I've used in the past, but the first thing to think about in your for any company and your own process is what makes sense for you. 00:05:50:04 - 00:06:12:09 Unknown And if you haven't done it at all before, you want to start small and just maybe pilot with a role or a department and then kind of build off of that. But one the process or approach that I have used in the past is called the climb up approach. And it starts with and within the process you establish your meetings. 00:06:12:11 - 00:06:37:05 Unknown But the first meetings are the first line supervisors meeting and someone's going to facilitate this conversation and they're going to talk about the high performing people on their teams and the high performing the high potentials and the high performers on their teams. And so who are those people? And somewhere we want to have like a database. So that we can document everything so that information goes in there. 00:06:37:07 - 00:07:11:10 Unknown Then the next step is to have the second line leaders meet. They're going to talk about the first line leaders and who is a high potential, who's high performing, what people need, what do they do? Well, unique skill sets, but they're also going to have knowledge of the people that were talked about in the first round, because those might be people that fill backfill roles of first line supervisors, but also those second line leaders and every leader above that need to have some knowledge of these other folks that are in the database and what kind of unique skills or talents do they bring. 00:07:11:10 - 00:07:41:21 Unknown Maybe they worked for a competitor in the past or maybe they worked for an organization that was like competitor adjacent, and they might have a different perspective that would be beneficial in a particular project or something like that. So everybody needs to be know kind of what's in there, especially with unique skills and experiences. So your your second line leaders may talk about first they see what who the first line leaders talked about and then go up to the third line or the executive team, depending on what your particular structure looks like and you do the same process over. 00:07:41:21 - 00:08:05:15 Unknown But it's beneficial that everyone now have at that higher level look and see in the database who has what. So you go through your that's your climb up approach and you have all of your meetings now you have your data so you can work with that, but also something to think about in the process is your cadence of meetings and if you always have them in certain months. 00:08:05:17 - 00:08:30:19 Unknown So people just know, as I need to be ready for that, like it's January and June or whatever, like do I need to be ready for that or do I need to be? And so I get my planning done and then thinking about the accountability piece and how you're going to how you as the executive leadership or whoever is kind of owning the process oftentimes is down through h.r. 00:08:30:21 - 00:09:00:19 Unknown But how is that accountability going to happen and explaining exactly the process of what needs to happen there. But you know, one thing that i will just ask people to think about is if you're in a leadership role and you have this accountability or this succession planning meeting and you're supposed to do the work and you come to the meeting and say, so busy, my department, you know, this or that, but your people are missing out then. 00:09:00:21 - 00:09:22:14 Unknown And how would you imagine those employees of that person who didn't do the work? And now no one knows that they have a unique set of skills, that they have an interest in going to another area or any of that. And so they may miss out. And as a leader, you would never want your people to miss out on a future opportunity, especially if they were the best candidate. 00:09:22:16 - 00:09:47:24 Unknown So you have to do the work and have all of that information stored somewhere so that we have the knowledge. You know, it's like, garbage in, garbage out kind of thing. We had good data in there, so we can work from that. But you definitely want to dedicate time to doing the work. Yeah, and I feel like what you just described there is probably a common challenge for many organizations and just getting started in the accountability piece, that invention. 00:09:48:01 - 00:10:18:06 Unknown So it's a perfect weekend or next question of what are some other common challenges that business owners face when it comes to the succession planning? Yeah, that's a great point because time is for sure one of the I would say one of the biggest issues is just getting started and kind of knowing where to start. And you have to just figure it, figure it out along the way if you've never done it, or if you don't have somebody who has done it somewhere helping you, but, you know, start small and then you can build on that. 00:10:18:08 - 00:10:41:22 Unknown But getting started is one of the biggest challenges. And then the second thing is ensuring accountability and dedicating it at the time and working the plan because it doesn't stop after you've had the meeting. Now you have all that data from each of those meetings. You still have work to do after that. So it's working the plan. So Dana, you mentioned that a common challenge is really just starting the whole process. 00:10:41:22 - 00:11:00:20 Unknown So where would you say a good place to start is? Yeah, and it could be like many things both feel kind of daunting sometimes, especially if you've never done it before. And it's like, where do we even begin? And and I would say get the right people in the room to have some discussion around why are we going through this? 00:11:01:00 - 00:11:21:22 Unknown What's driving the need for doing succession planning? And it really is about preparedness and kind of being ready when something changes, getting ready so you're not caught off guard when now all of a sudden, we have to hire three new leaders. And who would they be? You might have some great people in there, but you can use the time to get people developed. 00:11:21:22 - 00:11:48:20 Unknown So, you know, why are we doing this? What is it that we hope to get out of this? You know, answering that question now, everybody's on the same page. You've got some foundation set, then you can start looking. And I'm going to just say there's a metaphorical board here, you know, in the air. But put on the board and a like an employee journey map or a leader journey map, and it might look something like picture sort of a road map. 00:11:48:20 - 00:12:12:04 Unknown How do we get from here to there? So for an employee, there may be a number of different career paths that they take. And I'll just use an example from one of my old experiences in an organization I worked for in the past. I was in leadership in a call center. We had customer service reps and they might become a coach, which is not a leadership role, but it's kind of a step up. 00:12:12:06 - 00:12:33:14 Unknown They might become a trainer again, not a leadership role, but it's a step up. But they also then might go to first line supervisor and it could go those three things, but it could go right from customer service representative to supervisor, depending on the individual. No, there's never like it has to be this kind of path. I'll take that back. 00:12:33:16 - 00:12:55:19 Unknown I won't say never, but in in generally speaking, people might take different paths to get where they're going. So you have this employee journey and in that journey map, you know what might be some skills that they like as a trainer, they're going to get great presents and skills experience, thinking on your feet, but also some planning for the class and things like that. 00:12:55:19 - 00:13:23:17 Unknown And as a coach, they're going to get some experience coaching other employees, which is essential for leaders. So you could get some development along the way. Then when you think about the leader map in in my old experience, I'm going to use another example for later maps. We did things like you might have a first line supervisor who's only ever worked kind of in this area and we want to get them some experience in another part of the organization. 00:13:23:19 - 00:13:45:16 Unknown They might lateral over into an analyst role and so they're not supervising people now, but they're learning some of the business problems and they're working on cross-functional teams. So they're getting a whole new set of experiences that help them learn more about the company. And especially if you're in a large organization, it can give them some different experiences. 00:13:45:18 - 00:14:03:05 Unknown Then they might go to a second line manager or they might go to a manager of analyst or something different. But you could also go from first line supervisor to second line manager or something like that. But you just need to think about what are the needs and who has a unique set of skills and an interest in a particular role. 00:14:03:07 - 00:14:21:22 Unknown So kind of figuring all of that out and you can start with your why statement, then go to your journey maps and that will help you once you do those individual development plans ultimately. So we've done the why now, we've done our journey maps and we've had some discussion. Then we had our meetings and we built all that data in our database. 00:14:21:24 - 00:14:49:21 Unknown You can see what people need individually, but as a leader now, it's my responsibility for my people to get them what they need. So so there's kind of that leg, if you will, but then you'll have people in the database who have common learning needs, development needs. So for example, maybe they've never done any type of coaching or performance management or employment law. 00:14:49:23 - 00:15:11:18 Unknown So if there's 20 people in the database that need that now, you can send people into a comment class and that could be something like RPA classes or it could be something you do on site. There also might be some some kind of really easy things to get off the ground. If you give everybody a link to a TED talk and say, watch content between now and 30 days, we're going to have a meeting and we're gonna talk about it. 00:15:11:20 - 00:15:31:04 Unknown That's great development for people to come to the meeting and hear what other people's perspectives were and share their perspectives. So get some experience with all of that and collaborating on a project. Or it could be any number of things that you could do that could be quick hits within just within the company. You could do like a book club. 00:15:31:06 - 00:15:50:02 Unknown But then there are other things that might be bigger, like a plex or a roundtable or going to a class on a law or something like that. But, you know, use that data to help you make your plans and do your the execution of the plan. No, absolutely. Those are great examples. I'm glad that you brought those up. 00:15:50:02 - 00:16:13:14 Unknown And I loved hearing about your success in your past roles, too, and kind of just sharing your real life, your real life stories. So we talked about gaining new skills and some of that includes technology skills too. So I guess my question here is how do you use data then specifically to assist in succession planning in appraisals? Yeah. 00:16:13:16 - 00:16:50:23 Unknown So I'm assuming that everybody, you know, the new hires are going in and putting their information into whatever your h.r. Software is about. However that process looks, that could be just through h.r. Maybe putting that information in, but again, garbage in, garbage out. So the data has to be in there, but there are usually your h.r. System has an element of, like, ways to search so you could search for, like, degrees in accounting, or you could search for people who have a certain certification or speak multiple languages. 00:16:51:00 - 00:17:16:06 Unknown You could also use that information in your database to search for what's the age range as you kind of opened up with 10,000 people are retiring every day. So what is that age range? How many people are in that group and in what roles? And is it that one critical role or there's only one person with that institutional knowledge and you don't want to ask people like, Hey, I'm turning 65 or whatever, You don't want to ask that. 00:17:16:08 - 00:17:36:21 Unknown You're just looking at the data and taking that to your meeting and saying, This is what the data is telling us. This is these are things that could happen and we should be prepared for these things. So use the reports and the information that you already have in there. If it's possible you might want to automate with some succession planning software. 00:17:36:23 - 00:17:53:00 Unknown There are some great programs out there that make it so easy, very intuitive, user friendly programs. So again, you can put the information in and it can you can even set alerts and it will tell you like date of the meeting is next month and you need to be prepared to talk about your team members, that kind of thing. 00:17:53:00 - 00:18:19:01 Unknown But you can also kind of move people from ready now, or maybe they're ready with development in the next 12 months or maybe ready with development 1 to 3 years or something like that, so you can set it up and whatever makes sense in your organization. But then, you know, educating everybody on what what all those things mean, ready now what does that mean? 00:18:19:03 - 00:18:49:11 Unknown So if there's an opening and your names on the list, she's ready now. So we've got 35 people who are ready now for this first line supervisor job and great place to be if you've got a big pool like that. So you can use that data to kind of age you and in this process. Yeah, I'm glad that you brought up automation and automating the process a little bit more because I'm sure a few people are a little overwhelmed with the whole succession planning process. 00:18:49:11 - 00:19:22:06 Unknown So at least now that there are tools to help you with the process, that's another one. Yeah. So we talked about in the beginning that planning isn't just for CEOs and leadership for retirees. So are there specific roles to priority prioritize or are there high risk roles that need more attention than other roles? Yes, and I would say think about three in particular. 00:19:22:08 - 00:19:42:10 Unknown So one is if you have a particular role where only one person does it, and especially if one person has done it for years and they have all that institutional knowledge and you don't want to lose that and it's easy to just, you know, so and so it's always done and they've always been there, but at some point they're not going to be there. 00:19:42:12 - 00:19:58:22 Unknown So what are what are the plans in place so that you don't have an issue when that person does leave? So you're planning for. That's why succession planning is so essential for organizations You want to be prepared for when these things happen that you're not caught off guard going, my gosh, what are we going to do now? 00:19:58:24 - 00:20:22:16 Unknown And somebody could hit the lottery, right? And they're gone. So so that's the first one. And then the second one to think about is any of those niche roles, unique skills. There's not a big candidate pool. It's hard to hire. Think about like what are the competitors doing, What are they paying? Are they doing anything like signing bonuses or some things to attract people? 00:20:22:18 - 00:20:49:18 Unknown And are those things that you need to consider? Maybe you've never done it in the past, but things have changed and it might be that now you need to change to accommodate that pool. So that you can attract the best talent. And then the third thing to think about really are your growth plans. So if you are going to expand, I mentioned going global or something like what are what are the needs there? 00:20:49:20 - 00:21:18:15 Unknown If you're even just from a growth perspective, maybe it's not even going global or anything like that, but you're one of your strategic goals might be we're going to increase sales by 20%. Well, as everything increases. So do oftentimes the number of employees. So you might need to hire multiple leaders next year. Do you have anyone in the pipeline that's going to be a good leader in the meantime, if you know that's going to happen, if that's the plan? 00:21:18:15 - 00:21:42:01 Unknown In the meantime, can you work on getting people prepared so you have all that great information from your meetings in the database and you see who might be the next first line leaders, particularly your people that have some potential and have been performing. So let's say there's 20 people in there. You could take 20 people and send them through some kind of a development class to get them prepared. 00:21:42:03 - 00:22:04:14 Unknown And then you have a good candidate pool to choose from when you have that growth that you've been expecting. So those are kind of the three areas that I would, I would say to consider. Yeah, absolutely. We talked a lot on emerging leaders here on the podcast. So again, that's a great group of people to kind of get roped into this discussion to Absolutely. 00:22:04:16 - 00:22:30:19 Unknown And we've also mentioned kind of emphasize the point that succession planning is not for one specific type of role or not for just leadership roles. And with so many baby boomer boomers, many of them may be in leadership roles leaving the workforce, there is a greater emphasis on the younger generation needing to fill in these leadership roles. So let's talk for a little bit about succession planning for these younger generations. 00:22:30:21 - 00:23:04:00 Unknown Maybe they haven't been in the workforce very long and they don't really have a ton of experience or the leadership skills. So do you have any recommendations for developing this process? A little earlier on? Yeah, I would say, you know, a couple of things to think about when looking at sort of that, I'm going to use your phrase about next generation of leaders, because consider, especially for people who've been in the workforce for a long time, you know, about the evolution of the workforce itself. 00:23:04:02 - 00:23:37:17 Unknown And currently there are the workforce is really looking for development and opportunities and not just, you know, getting hired to work in this one job forever, but it's the the workforce, you know, the people that you hope to retain that can see that they're you care about their development. You the leader care about their development and that there is going to be future opportunity, then that's a little more attractive to that that part of the workforce. 00:23:37:19 - 00:23:54:15 Unknown The other thing about that part of the workforce, a lot of times you have people who they want to know their leader and they want their leader to know them as a whole person. There used to be an old adage back in the day that, you know, check your bags, your baggage at the door when you come to work. 00:23:54:15 - 00:24:14:19 Unknown It's work time. But there really has been an evolution in the workforce about the whole person. You're leading the whole person and you can't often as as a human, we can't. There are certain things we just can't leave at home and things that might be hindering our ability to focus or whatever it might be. But, you know, that's attractive to help retain some of the workforce. 00:24:14:19 - 00:24:38:04 Unknown So you're thinking about the next generation of employees. What's next? What is going to be the next part of the evolution? You may as an organization have a diversity goal and you might want to focus on that. You might also have new tech knowledge that's going to be coming into your work world, and you'll need people who understand that technology know how to do whatever it is. 00:24:38:06 - 00:25:01:06 Unknown But you also could be just like in a growth mode. And so all of a sudden now you find it beneficial that you need to have a project manager on staff that could be part of your next generation. Maybe we've never had that before, but with all the change that we're going through and, you know, we're going to add this madness and that it might be beneficial to have somebody with that kind of a skill set to manage projects as they go through. 00:25:01:08 - 00:25:22:18 Unknown So you just kind of have to think about what are those skills, what are some changes coming? There might be get lost, but you're looking at your next generation of hires and your next generation of leaders and what are they going to need to. Again, it's all part of the process going into leadership skills, digging in there a little bit more. 00:25:22:20 - 00:25:45:06 Unknown How do you exactly know what is needed or how do you help develop those successful leadership skills specifically? Yeah, so a lot of that is really through observation, you know, so for example, if I am a leader and I have, you know, ten people on my team and I've worked with them, I've got some experiences and I can assess from my perspective. 00:25:45:06 - 00:26:24:10 Unknown So so my observations are going to play a huge role in that, which back to what we said earlier about if the leader isn't going to the meetings and talking about so-and-so skills and abilities, sometimes they missed out. The other thing now can be through like cross-functional teams or cross-functional projects committees. So for example, if I am a sponsor of a new project and I have people from ten different departments that are on my project team, so I can see that person's work product, if you will, because they come to the meetings, are they prepared? 00:26:24:10 - 00:26:50:20 Unknown Do they meet their deadlines? Do they work well with others? Just all those things. And then I can speak to that too. So their first their manager can speak to their their performance. I can speak to their performance. So there are some other examples. And in that too, I might have a different perspective because I might say they were great at these five things and you know, what they could benefit from is learning more about this other part of the organization, and that's a complement to their work. 00:26:50:22 - 00:27:12:22 Unknown And if they understood more of the ins and outs over there, I think that it can help them understand kind of what levers to pull or when things happen, how that's going to impact another department, just kind of seeing the organization more holistically or that organization more as the system that it is. And that can really help when it comes to things like problem solving or cross training or anything like that. 00:27:12:24 - 00:27:39:07 Unknown You know, really a lot of that is, again, through observation. But then, you know, you also think about what they need next and how do you kind of meet those needs. A lot of that is through the development plans and things. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's been a common trend of what we've also talked about this year is that cross training and the leadership development opportunities and all that great stuff that you mentioned. 00:27:39:07 - 00:28:08:01 Unknown So I love those examples. That was great advice. But Dana, as we wrap up here, can you share any any real life success stories or case studies even of businesses that have effectively navigated this succession planning process? Yes, sure. So I will share that. There was a company that I worked with not long ago and they had a pretty good succession planning process already in place with their meetings and their documentation. 00:28:08:01 - 00:28:32:10 Unknown And and it wasn't automated. They were they were using an Excel sheet. It worked for them. It was not a large organization. So as they continue to grow, they might want to automate. And that was one of the things we did talk about. And but what they really wanted to focus on were accountability and what kind of enhancements could they do to their existing process. 00:28:32:12 - 00:28:50:15 Unknown So there were a couple of things that we talked about, and one was moving from meeting twice a year to for a while. Let's make four times a year and then people get it's it's closer, right? So you've done it more times and people are kind of more ready each time because it's like, that's three months now. 00:28:50:16 - 00:29:23:05 Unknown Not six months away. So I've got to be ready. And what have I done from from this meeting to the next? And that's a reflection of me as a leader on my performance. Did I take time to dedicate to developing my people? So kind of making those meetings more frequently can really help with that accountability piece. But then the other thing that one of the things that I had had experience with in the past I recommended was make one of the leaders or the owner of a particular meeting. 00:29:23:07 - 00:29:43:09 Unknown So if it was my turn to be the leader of the meeting, then I set the meeting. I sent out the invites, I pull up the database for doing it virtually, and I show it online and we have and I facilitate the conversation. That's a different level of ownership. You know what? If I know I'm going to be responsible for the meeting, I'm going to do all my prep work ahead of time. 00:29:43:09 - 00:29:59:10 Unknown And it's just like anything else, like riding a bike, right? The more you do it, the easier it gets, the better you get at it, the more comfortable you are with it. So if I have to have ownership in a meeting, I'm going to work a little harder to get prepared and I don't want to go in ill prepared. 00:29:59:12 - 00:30:32:20 Unknown But also it's a way to get more used to it. So you've got somebody that can kind of run that meeting. And then the other thing we did talk about was potentially automating the process and again, just making it easier for the leaders to to do that work. That's that's part of our work as leaders. So the executive team, if they need to approve like the purchase of some kind of software to make this work easier and better information, better data to work with, that might be part of this your succession planning work too. 00:30:32:22 - 00:30:56:10 Unknown So that was a company that I worked with before or one of our member companies that I worked with, but in my own role before I came to MRA in my past. When our past lives, if you will, one element in our succession planning process that I liked was so you had accountability to your leadership to do the work, to come in to the meetings prepared. 00:30:56:15 - 00:31:20:16 Unknown And if we were not prepared, our leader was having a conversation with us about not doing the work. But the other thing is kind of like dual accountability was the expectation was after those meetings and after the conversation and all, I would go back and have a meeting with the people on my team that we talked about the high potentials and the high performers, and to have the conversation around here is what you do really well. 00:31:20:18 - 00:31:38:03 Unknown And here are some things we think you could benefit from. And so let's make that happen. But that was an expectation. So my leader would say, have you had your accountability meetings with your team yet? So it's kind of coming from both directions and it's just another way to kind of make the work happen. But it is a little bit of muscle memory. 00:31:38:03 - 00:32:05:03 Unknown You know, again, the more you do it, the easier it gets and you start having those conversations and planning it and it just becomes part of the work after that for sure. Those are great examples too, and even some action steps that listeners can take away and start implementing right away too. Yeah, it's very. Dana, I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and thank you for sharing your expertise and your success with succession planning. 00:32:05:05 - 00:32:27:03 Unknown Thank we yeah, and to our listeners, if you like the chat and topic today, I know a lot of our members and listeners request this topic, so I would urge you to comment something new that you learned today or anything that you really like to add on to this conversation. We always want to hear from you and your what you're doing specifically on this topic too. 00:32:27:05 - 00:32:49:03 Unknown Don't forget to share out this episode and consider joining MRA if you aren't member already. We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below, including a number of succession planning resources in the show notes below too. So take a look at those. We've also got Dana's bio and LinkedIn profiles, so if you'd like to connect with her, Dana, I hope that's okay. 00:32:49:03 - 00:33:09:22 Unknown You might be getting some good connections lately, otherwise. Thank you so much for tuning in, Dana. I appreciate you being here and we'll see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. 00:33:09:23 - 00:33:19:15 Unknown And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: It's time to explore the latest trends shaping the hiring landscape in 2024, and we're sitting down with MRA Recruiting Business Partner Lead, Katie Kestly, to do just that! With more than ten years working in recruiting, Katie has seen a number of recruiting trends come and go. Join us as we discuss the innovative strategies and technologies that are redefining the way organizations attract, assess, and retain top talent in the rapidly evolving job market of 2024.  Resources: MRA's Recruiting Services  Recruiting Toolkit  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Katie Kestly  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Katie Kestly  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:47:03 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive. We're here and talking with Katie Kestly today, MRA's lead recruiting, business partner, partner and subject matter expert on the topic for today. So with more than ten years of working and recruiting, Katie, I know you've seen a number of recruiting trends come and go, so I'm kind of excited to talk about trends that you'll be seeing in 2024. 00:00:47:09 - 00:01:17:17 Unknown Yeah, but today we're going to like I said, we're going to be talking about those recruiting trends that you need to be aware of and start planning for for 2024. So according to a Recruiter Flow blog, some of the top ten trends for recruiting in 2024 will be hybrid work model, proactive candidate engagement, use of recruiting automation, diversity and inclusion, branding, data centric recruiting and list goes on, but we'll cover those in the rest of the podcast. 00:01:17:19 - 00:01:42:10 Unknown So Katie, let's talk about some of these trends and starting out with number one on the list that is hybrid work. So are our employees really still looking for hybrid work? yeah, absolutely. That's one of the biggest challenges right now is just, you know, to work from home, to not work from home. And it's something that companies are really kind of having that hard time trying to identify where are we going to go with this? 00:01:42:11 - 00:02:09:17 Unknown But yes, absolutely, hybrid work is here to stay. So how can an employee really still recruit top talent if they're not going to offer hybrid work? Yeah, that's a really great question. And a lot of companies run into this and I think that the the biggest thing for organizations or the biggest thing for candidates is the number one primary motivator for candidates wanting to work from home is to have that flexibility. 00:02:09:19 - 00:02:31:23 Unknown So if organizations are able to highlight what they can offer in terms of flexibility, that's something that will make them stand out if they're not offering that hybrid policy. So, for example, a lot of organizations are getting creative with their schedules, so they're doing core days in the office or core hours that they have to be in the office. 00:02:31:23 - 00:02:52:17 Unknown So for core days, whether it's your group or groups and Monday one, Friday, Tuesday, Thursday and even core hours. So maybe they'll do you have to be in the office from 9 to 3. So that gives them more of that flexible schedule if they want to work, come in at seven and leave at three or even if they prefer more of a 9 to 5. 00:02:52:17 - 00:03:16:09 Unknown So really highlighting that flexibility of what they can offer. If they can't offer the hybrid. Yeah, absolutely. I was just talking on and podcasts earlier this morning about hybrid work schedules and I had an example of a friend who was at a hybrid company and now they just moved to fully in-person and a lot of people quit because of that. 00:03:16:10 - 00:03:40:20 Unknown So I guess that leads to the next question. Is hybrid really a critical no or no go offer? I would say do you think? Yeah. I mean, personally, I like the having the flexibility. I like coming into the office. I think for candidates in the market today, just when I reach out to candidates on LinkedIn, it's the first question I get is, is this remote? 00:03:40:20 - 00:03:58:24 Unknown I'm only looking for remote or what is the hybrid policy? I even have gotten to the point now on to my email messages saying we offer a hybrid schedule. This is what it looks like. So I would say it's critical and I think a lot of organizations are adapting and adapting to this new work model. No, I totally agree with that. 00:03:59:00 - 00:04:24:24 Unknown Yeah, it's good to know. Yeah. So I'm also curious what is meant by proactive candidate engagement as that's another item on the list. So can you give any examples of what it really means and any examples of good proactive candidate engagement? Yeah, so proactive candidate engagement essentially is just staying on top of hiring demand. So a big bulk of what recruiters do is sourcing candidates. 00:04:24:24 - 00:04:45:09 Unknown So creating those connections with them, trying to get them to sync up with the recs that they're working on. But say, maybe a recruiter doesn't have a full plate at the time, but they see a skill set over and over again. That's where what it means by proactive engagement, making sure you're staying ahead of those hiring demands and just kind of building that pipeline or building that network. 00:04:45:09 - 00:05:08:12 Unknown If you will. So an example of that is just simply networking. Recruiters have LinkedIn recruiter seeds where they can build those pipelines of of candidates now, or I should say pipeline, but network of candidates. So I think an example of that is just kind of from a networking perspective. But I think in terms of being having that candidate engagement, you want to be tasteful with. 00:05:08:17 - 00:05:27:19 Unknown You don't want to just be like, Hey, what's up? How how's it going? How are you? It's moreso, Hey, I see you're an engineer in this skill set. We've seen this skill set regularly, kind of giving them that whiff. I'm like, What's in it for them? Sharing some market data and things like that. So absolutely having those meaningful conversations. 00:05:27:19 - 00:05:52:19 Unknown Yeah, that's a good point. We also talked a lot about Canada experience overall on the podcast, so I'm curious to know what organizations are doing to enhance the candidate experience as part of their recruitment strategy for 2024. Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the candidate experience has been a hot topic for recruiters for quite some time now. 00:05:52:19 - 00:06:17:24 Unknown You know, you want to make sure that the candidates are well taken care of, and I think companies are doing a lot of different things to help implement that. You hear a lot of like high tech, high touch. So incorporating technology into the forefront of the applicant tracking system process, whatever it may be. Another thing that candidates excuse me that recruiters are doing as they're doing more of like a fast reply when the application comes in. 00:06:17:24 - 00:06:43:16 Unknown So as soon as the application comes in, they're connecting with them, saying, Hey, thanks for applying. I would love to schedule a phone screen with you or schedule the interview with you. It really shows that you have that interest there. Yeah, the last thing that I've seen organizations doing is focusing more on pre-boarding. So before the candidates are coming in for their first day, they're assigning them a buddy, if you will, or they call it like a warm welcome approach. 00:06:43:16 - 00:07:01:15 Unknown So they either, you know, assign them to a coworker, the recruiter, or the hiring manager or whatever it may be, and it kind of stays with them, you know, every step of the way before their first day. So they kind of have that more sense of belonging when they, you know, feel you know, when you start a new job, it's it's wild. 00:07:01:17 - 00:07:26:11 Unknown You don't know where you're going, what you're doing. So it's more welcome to. Yeah, no, I could see how that would better the whole candidate experience. And you also mentioned technology in there. So another item on her was is recruiting automation. So are we really talking about technology here or even the use of artificial intelligence? Yes, we are. 00:07:26:13 - 00:07:55:07 Unknown We are. We are. AI is everywhere. It's it's a part of the recruiting process. And it's not necessarily to replace recruiters. It's to make us better, to make us faster, to make us more efficient. So we have to deliver to our members to our customers, to our candidates. So when you think of recruiting from start to finish, from, you know, putting the job out there, sourcing the candidates, contacting the candidates, sorting the candidates, AI plays a part into every piece of those. 00:07:55:07 - 00:08:19:04 Unknown And it's really just to make us more efficient and effective. So there's things like auto generated, personalized outreach messages, auto generated search strings based on requirements. So you have technologies and tools where you can enter in a job or enter in a job description and it will auto populate candidates to you that you can reach out to. And then lastly, it helps. 00:08:19:04 - 00:08:38:21 Unknown There's different like add ins with different applicant tracking systems where it can help prioritize the candidates that have come into the rack and maybe which ones are a fit or are not a fit. So and some of the ones that we've explored here internally too, it's like German German hire viewer, the two that really stand out and say to stay, yeah, that's half of my mind. 00:08:38:21 - 00:09:00:16 Unknown But yeah, I love how you said that AI is not meant to like take over. Your job is going to help you because I feel like I've heard a lot, like AI is going to take over my job. Yeah, they're taking over everything, so. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree that it's just there as a tool and you can use it to make your job more efficient, right? 00:09:00:18 - 00:09:25:08 Unknown So diversity and inclusion was also named as a top trend for 2024. How can employers really incorporate the AI into their recruiting? Yeah, that's a really great question and I feel like this has been a big buzz for recruiting and just organizations as a whole. And obviously a lot of it stems into the beginning stages of recruiting, so I can touch every step in the recruiting process. 00:09:25:08 - 00:09:54:16 Unknown So whether it's creating gender neutral job ads, placing the said job on diverse boards because there's a lot that are specific to different diverse organizations, you can target diverse talent pools and when you're sourcing candidates as well, partnering with local diversity partners and doing different like blind hiring methods, things like that. So you're not you know, you're focusing on it, but you're not focusing on it. 00:09:54:16 - 00:10:18:09 Unknown Yeah. So and I've seen some other organizations, too, to draw more attention to their diverse recruiting efforts, do more of like a Happy blank day on LinkedIn. Yeah, I'd say social media, but things like Happy like Day of the Dead or things like that, just to show that they're having that drawn towards more desire for diversity in their workforce. 00:10:18:09 - 00:10:43:07 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. And you just listed a bunch of great and steps that people can take even now right after the podcast. So we'll all link some resources to to help with that. Absolutely. The next one is branding for recruitment. And I love this one, obviously because I'm on the marketing team. So tell us more about why an organization's brand is so important in the recruitment process. 00:10:43:07 - 00:11:03:16 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. Well, marketing and recruiting go hand in hand. Like sometimes I like to play like I'm a marketing person, but I'm really not. I'm just I like to marry the person and the candidate and everyone to where they need to go. But the main goal for branding for an organization and recruiting is just how can you differentiate, differentiate yourself? 00:11:03:18 - 00:11:21:03 Unknown How can you have that strong and input employer brand? It's very critical and it's to highlight that within the recruitment process. So again, a lot of what recruiters do is that active candidate outreach to get, you know, maybe you have a job posted, you don't have any applicants. So how am I going to attract people to this job? 00:11:21:03 - 00:11:41:08 Unknown So when I'm reaching out to candidates personally, I always like to make sure my emails are fun, They're light and getting the point to what they want to know. Okay, yes, schedule and compensation. But if I can leverage other social media platforms and that's what a lot of companies are doing where they can highlight their culture, their values, what makes them unique. 00:11:41:10 - 00:12:03:21 Unknown I was actually working with one organization where they have create they created a slew of day in the life videos. So when I was recruiting for those particular skill sets and maybe the candidates didn't know exactly what a day in the life looked like, I would enter that link into my email message. So the candidate could get a better feel and physically see what a day in the life looked like. 00:12:03:23 - 00:12:26:19 Unknown So great idea. Yeah. So that's a lot of what branding and how it kind of falls into recruitment. Yeah, I feel like recruiters have to be more creative than ever now because I don't know, there's just so many different aspects that you could write be original on and everyone wants to say, Come to us because we have hybrid work, but everyone's going to say that. 00:12:26:21 - 00:12:47:12 Unknown So like, like you said, what makes you stand stand out and stand apart? Yeah. So as the job market becomes more competitive, what strategies are employers adopting to attract and retain top talent? I think, you know, the biggest thing that employers are doing to adopt and attract and retain the top talent is they're looking at the market too. 00:12:47:14 - 00:13:06:21 Unknown So they're looking at the market, seeing what the competition is doing, what the competition is paying, what they're putting out there, and they're making those adjustments and they're being very mindful of that. I think a lot of what we've talked about before here is they're also meeting their employees where they're at and kind of seeing what the benefits are. 00:13:06:21 - 00:13:34:11 Unknown That would be a benefit to them, because a benefit for me is ever been a benefit to you. So I know a lot of organizations are doing a paid or unpaid elder care daycare or child care reimbursement and also embracing a long term work from home policy and offering those flexibility. So how about some of the skills and qualities that recruiters are really prioritizing in 2024 as the job market continues to evolve? 00:13:34:11 - 00:13:56:07 Unknown Yeah, the market's pretty saturated right now in terms of candidates and people looking for work. So I think one of the main skills and qualities that they're prioritizing is culture fit. I think, you know, everyone was so hot to trot and hot to hire a few years back. And I think they've they've learned their lesson that at the end of the day, we got to make sure we have the right culture fed. 00:13:56:07 - 00:14:33:12 Unknown So we're having, you know, these individuals longer term. Another thing they're looking to do is increase the skills of their recruiting team. So having them, you know, adopt different technology use are different skills trainings, factoring in AI as well. And then I think last but not least, kind of what we mentioned earlier is that too much meaning the employees, where they're at the meeting, the candidates where they're at in terms of communication, I was recently recruiting for a slew of interns and I was like, Hey, this is my first time recruiting Gen Z, and I know they want short, sweet to the point. 00:14:33:12 - 00:14:59:13 Unknown So how what is my message going to be to them? So what I ended up doing was I put together a sourcing and mail that said, Hey, I have an internship, here's the company, here's the location, here's the pay. Are you interested? Ed If so, book a time on my calendar. And I sent them a link because it was all easy to do on their phones and things like that, I got zero responses, but nine candidates scheduled phone screens for me and they all showed up to their phone screen. 00:14:59:13 - 00:15:25:03 Unknown Really? Yeah. So a big thing is of really just meeting people where they're at and where they need to be in terms of communication skills and things like that. So those would be, in my opinion, the key skills now. Yeah, those are great examples and great things always keep in mind. Yeah, well kind of wrapping up here and looking ahead at the same time, what challenges do you really anticipate recruiters will face in the coming year? 00:15:25:05 - 00:15:46:09 Unknown And do you have any advice that you can kind of leave us with today to help navigate some of these challenges? Yeah, I think the biggest challenge for the upcoming year for recruiting is just going to be the job market itself. I think it's it's ever changing right now. Like I started last week with two active positions and now my plate is nearly full. 00:15:46:09 - 00:16:06:18 Unknown So it's just it's ever changing again, for better or for worse. And I don't think anyone really knows the predictability for next year. So I think that's going to be the biggest challenge. My advice on that is as a recruiter, as an employee, as a supervisor, anyone in the workforce internally or externally, communication and having those clear expectations. 00:16:06:20 - 00:16:30:00 Unknown And I think too, from a recruiter standpoint, the advice would be gaining the trust from candidates and building the relationship. You know, you there like I said, the market is very saturated right now. So, you know, you if you ghost candidates, you know, just follow up with candidates because if someone has a bad experience, yeah, they're going to LinkedIn and they're going to post about it. 00:16:30:00 - 00:16:50:11 Unknown So you want to make sure that you're you're ensuring that you're genuinely there to help because as a recruiter, you're there to help the candidate, you're there to help the organization, and you really just want to make sure you're gaining that trust from the candidates. That would be my, my, my biggest one advice. That is great advice. And so thank you. 00:16:50:13 - 00:17:12:10 Unknown Well, it sounds like recruiters definitely have their hands full this year and next year, but I want to thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your experience and expertise with us today. We're curious to know what you're doing to get ready for recruiting in 2024, so feel free to leave a comment below for a chance to win one of MRA's new swag items on the podcast. 00:17:12:12 - 00:17:31:18 Unknown And if you liked our chat and topic today, don't forget to share out this episode and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below, including resources on this topic. Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and thanks for joining us. Katie. Thank you. And we'll see you next week. 00:17:31:20 - 00:17:52:22 Unknown And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: Explore the intersection of HR and cutting-edge technology in this week's episode of 30 minute THRIVE. Join us as our expert guest, Tricia Shields, VP of HR at MRA member company Naviant, Inc., delves into how AI and technology are transforming HR practices, addressing challenges, and shaping the future of work. Tricia shares valuable insights, examples, and tips for HR professionals navigating this exciting landscape. Resources: Naviant - Human Resource Process Solutions  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest LinkedIn Profile - Tricia Shields  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:46:12 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. So episode 65, actually. So it's kind of a special one today. But today we're really going to be exploring the intersection of HR and cutting edge technology. So I'm joined with our expert guests on the topic. Tricia Shields. She's a vice president of HR at MRA member company NAVIENT. 00:00:46:14 - 00:00:57:14 Unknown And Navient actually provides business process and digital transformation consultations. So it's a perfect topic to talk with you today. Tricia I'm excited you're here. 00:00:57:14 - 00:01:11:09 Unknown Yeah. Thank you. Sophia. I'm glad to be here, actually. And i know you actually talked on this topic at our HR Conference this past year, too, and this topic has just been a really highly requested one from our listeners to on the podcast. 00:01:11:09 - 00:01:34:11 Unknown So i'm excited to just hear your insights and tips and any advice you really have for professionals that are starting to or in the middle of kind of navigating this landscape. So could you provide just a quick overview on how technology has really evolved over the years and kind of where we are today with technology and in the field of HR 00:01:34:11 - 00:01:38:21 Unknown Specifically? Yeah, that sounds great. Thanks again for having me. 00:01:38:21 - 00:01:59:17 Unknown Yes, i kind of think about the history in a lot of ways. I feel like I've kind of grown up with technology now that technology's always been available to me. But if I think about the beginning of my career, which is just kind of over 20 years ago now, when I was first interacting with technology as it relates to HR, I really wasn't interacting with it at all. 00:01:59:17 - 00:02:25:06 Unknown So, you know, I think about my first job out of college when I needed to do something from an HR perspective, from an employee perspective, I was walking down to the HR department and I was filling out a piece of paper. And that HR professional was taking that information and maybe just storing it in their filing cabinet. Maybe they were untreated it into the system. 00:02:25:07 - 00:02:53:17 Unknown So certainly HR systems were around in that kind of late nineties time. Some organizations had adopted those and kind of the availability of the types of technologies that were available in them was vastly different across different organizations. So certainly we've seen a lot with the evolution of HR systems over the last 20 years and how we're utilizing those within our organizations. 00:02:53:19 - 00:03:26:12 Unknown We've also seen a lot evolve as it relates to process specific technologies. So, you know, thinking about things like our applicant tracking systems or performance management systems, maybe our learning management systems, but we've seen a lot more technologies coming on to the market to help support some of those key focus areas within HR. And then I think about today and just the rapid expansion that's happened maybe over the last five, seven years. 00:03:26:14 - 00:03:46:20 Unknown You know, we're talking about these more robust human capital management systems that are really taking care of a broad scope of a lot of the work we're doing within HR. You know, I commonly am in conversations about integrations and how do we integrate all these technologies so that they're talking to each other. 00:03:46:20 - 00:03:53:22 Unknown Automation technologies is is huge. That's a lot of where we're seeing a lot of the time savings 00:03:53:22 - 00:03:58:17 Unknown and and maybe more of the A.I. components of HR technology. 00:03:58:17 - 00:04:34:02 Unknown And we're hearing a lot more around the automation technology space. So definitely, you know, seemingly more complex technologies. But their technology is nowadays that if we're able to adapt to them and lean in, they should be making our lives easier as HR Professionals know. Absolutely. And i, i would just add on to that just communication like in general, like, I'm just thinking of our HR team here, and, I mean, if our internal HR team needs anything from me or any employee in the organization, I'll get a little chat from them. 00:04:34:02 - 00:04:42:16 Unknown It's not like they need to come walking down and grab me, right? It's just so quick and easy, like you mentioned. And even the two. 00:04:42:16 - 00:04:48:04 Unknown Just like that. Quick, easy automated messaging, like you mentioned tools. Yeah, changed. 00:04:48:04 - 00:04:58:15 Unknown We're kind of just going off of that conversation. Can you provide or do you have any examples of how these technologies today are being utilized in HR? 00:04:58:17 - 00:05:18:15 Unknown Yeah, I mean, even maybe before speaking specifically to any sold technology, you know, I think digitization is a really big foundational piece in the HR space as it relates to technology and how we're going to use technology within our organization. So just that whole, 00:05:18:15 - 00:05:34:00 Unknown you know, we made a commitment certainly at Navient and a lot of organizations have to digitizing their documents so that we're no longer kind of tied to paper processes and the manual process that really comes along with that. 00:05:34:00 - 00:06:01:15 Unknown So just finding opportunities and this was always my question as I built out our automation and technology usage at Navient was, all right, I have paper documents. Do they need to be in paper form? I mean, I'm excited to share that we're 100% paperless at Navient. And, you know, organizations absolutely have the ability to do that. And once your documents are digitized, there's so much more that you can do with those from a technology perspective. 00:06:01:16 - 00:06:28:16 Unknown So I would like to share that kind of kind of as a kind of based or within HR Some of the technologies and I'll just name a few. I mean, we're using technologies for all aspects of HR, so I could really rattle on like, the entire candidate and employee experience and how we're using technology. But one example that I'll give is performance management system at Navient, we call them our quarterly check ins. 00:06:28:16 - 00:06:52:13 Unknown I know some organizations will do those annually, some different timeframes as we do those from a quarterly perspective. And I think about how did that look historically. When I started in my role at Navient 15 years ago, it was a piece of paper and I printed it and I walked it to the manager's office with their kind of stack for their employees, and they gave it to their employee to fill out their portion. 00:06:52:13 - 00:07:14:08 Unknown The employee gave it back to the manager. Hopefully the manager gave it back to the HR Professional performance management was always such a big lift. And HR, like all HR Professionals that had to go through that had it in those historic days will speak to that. You had to be kind of a nagra department nagging people like i got to get these back. 00:07:14:14 - 00:07:40:15 Unknown But now if i look at how we're utilizing technology, so we're utilizing and process automation technology that essentially is taking that digitized document and it's it's, it's re re rerouted that flow or not reroute it, but it's kind of it's designed that flow around how we used to do that manually. So I actually don't even see that performance management process in action. 00:07:40:17 - 00:07:44:18 Unknown The forms are provided to the managers and the employees real time 00:07:44:18 - 00:08:12:10 Unknown specific to some predefined dates and how we want that process structured. Now as an HR Professional, i'm no longer having a follow up on those manual processes, but i also have the information available to me if i do need it. So if i want to look in and maybe have access to the final results when those are completed each quarter or an annual result, i can create my access into that system to see that as well. 00:08:12:10 - 00:08:24:16 Unknown So that's a great example of how we can use technology within that performance management space. I'll even just say on the employee data management side, and you made a great reference to that, Sofi, with 00:08:24:16 - 00:08:41:10 Unknown how you're interacting with HR And I look at just these self-serve options that are available within a lot of the platforms that we're utilizing, whether that's your system or some other type of employee technology system that you've adopted organizationally, 00:08:41:10 - 00:08:49:07 Unknown you know, back in the day, i used to, you know, fill out a piece of paper of my address, change and hand that into HR 00:08:49:09 - 00:09:15:00 Unknown Well, I don't need that anymore. I don't want to spend time collecting that paperwork, needing to store it, doing the data entry into the different systems. Instead, I can utilize technology to give the employee a self-serve option that they can go in whenever it's convenient for them, make those changes, and then really train the technology to make the appropriate updates. 00:09:15:02 - 00:09:42:05 Unknown Like I may never need to know if you just moved from one neighborhood within the same city to the next that navient We're 100% remote and hub remote company across the nation, so i do need to know or one of our HR Professionals does need to know if they're moving multistate and so we can set up that notification within the technology to really give us the information that we need real time for each one of those users. 00:09:42:07 - 00:09:49:13 Unknown Yeah, I love that you brought up the notification aspect, too, because I know personally that's just something that's helped me a lot 00:09:49:13 - 00:10:06:17 Unknown with any anything HR Related time sheets or goal setting or goal setting system. You know, you get your notification every week or so. Hey, make sure. Yeah. So it's not so much a job of nagging people anymore. 00:10:06:17 - 00:10:32:16 Unknown It's like an automated. Hey, make sure you fill this out like an email each week, which is so nice and right. We don't have to, like, manually remember these things either. Yeah, absolutely. And like with our goal setting system, like my manager is able to tell when I go in there and edit something or change something. So I don't always have to be like, Hey, can you go in there and work and write my goals or anything? 00:10:32:16 - 00:10:36:07 Unknown So yeah, examples. But 00:10:36:07 - 00:11:07:00 Unknown kind of going off of that, do you see any specific challenges or really pain points in HR That technology is really helping to improve or address? Yeah. I mean, i would definitely say, you know, one of the key drivers is time. You know, just the scope of what HR Professionals has is working on has really evolved over all the time that all this technology has been available to us. 00:11:07:01 - 00:11:41:14 Unknown You know, i would think back to kind of my early years of HR I was doing kind of the things that HR professionals typically do as far as managing, you know, specific processes. But our world has changed and we're being asked to find ways to be more strategic and how are we being strategic and bringing in really solid candidates to the organization and how are we being strategic to have a really whole employee experience so that we're retain in our top talent And so we need time to do that. 00:11:41:14 - 00:12:02:15 Unknown So if we're still manually processing tasks and and entering things in multiple systems and trying to manage that data, we don't really have that time to be strategic. I just think about, you know, my interaction with other HR professionals during the pandemic and all the things that came up that were kind of additional duties for us to do during that time. 00:12:02:17 - 00:12:17:14 Unknown You know, how do we have time to be strategic? And my answer is lean in and technology, because these pieces are available to help save you time so that you can, you know, spend more time being strategic. My kind of tagline or one 00:12:17:14 - 00:12:25:06 Unknown piece that I always like to say is utilizing technology is allowing us to put the human back in human resources. 00:12:25:06 - 00:12:46:21 Unknown So I don't want to spend my time updating an employee's address or moving, you know, a piece of data from one place in the organization to the other. I want to have meaningful conversations with our employees and with our candidates. And I really feel like, you know, leading edge technology allows us to do that. 00:12:46:21 - 00:12:51:07 Unknown Just that. And the other piece I would bring up is just kind of the management of the amount of data. 00:12:51:07 - 00:12:57:12 Unknown I mean, we are holding so much data within HR And it's hard to keep that all straight 00:12:57:12 - 00:13:07:22 Unknown as far as where the data should be stored. How long should we be storing it for? Who should have access to the data, who needs it at these different periods of time 00:13:07:22 - 00:13:12:23 Unknown to try to do that from a manual perspective or not utilizing technology? 00:13:13:00 - 00:13:21:02 Unknown Maybe it's even in an Excel spreadsheet that you're kind of keeping track of this. There's just so many more opportunities for there to be error with that 00:13:21:02 - 00:13:33:19 Unknown that I feel like, you know, that the managed utilizing technology to manage the data is a huge benefit of these HR Technologies. And I even think about that from a compliance perspective, right? 00:13:33:21 - 00:13:54:13 Unknown It used to be that we would hand out employee handbooks in a paper form and then we'd ask them to sign a piece of paper to say that you received the new employee handbook for the year and turn that back into HR Well, did i get everybody's form back? Did I miss an employee that maybe started while i was doing that process? 00:13:54:13 - 00:14:20:08 Unknown So being able to leverage technology for pieces like that from a compliance perspective is is priceless. Yeah, those are all great, great points. And I'm, I guess I'm curious to know what you're doing at Navient too. Can you share any examples of successful HR Technology implementations that have really positively impacted your organization? Yeah, 00:14:20:08 - 00:14:22:05 Unknown you know, our applicant tracking system. 00:14:22:05 - 00:14:30:24 Unknown So we're utilizing an applicant tracking system to manage our candidate experience. You know, historically, prior to utilizing that technology, 00:14:30:24 - 00:14:46:08 Unknown we were manually managing that. So just, you know, thinking about the number of candidates that we see at any given time for our organization, we're getting flooded with candidates when we open a new requisition. I know that's not the case for everybody. 00:14:46:08 - 00:14:56:13 Unknown And every industry, but certainly being a remote company in the technology space that's opening our candidate pool to the entire nation, that makes a significant difference. 00:14:56:13 - 00:15:10:17 Unknown So that's a challenge. We need to figure out how we're going to manage all the data points that come with that. So, you know, this technology is handling the posting and its handling the communication with candidates. 00:15:10:19 - 00:15:33:08 Unknown It's handling the communication with our internal staff. And that would always be kind of a exchange of emails. And did I send this person this email to communicate that or not about this specific candidate or that's all happening right within the it's platform. You know, this technology can handle scheduling, which can be complex, especially when you get multi interviewers and things like that. 00:15:33:08 - 00:15:40:21 Unknown We're also using that technology for our offer management, so we want it to be paperless and seamless with that process as well. 00:15:40:21 - 00:15:48:17 Unknown And then we have other built in integrations with that for like our assessment tool that we have all new or all candidates complete 00:15:48:17 - 00:16:15:18 Unknown as well as our recorded interview. So that's another one that I'll share. So in this came off of a partnership with Amira is we were introduced to the idea and the concept of utilizing video technology in lieu of recorded or in lieu of phone screenings, which is kind of how all of our organizations, I think historically did that was have an HR professional call and ask questions, not really sharing 00:16:15:18 - 00:16:26:03 Unknown a lot at that time, but just asking questions and receiving the information, Well, why wouldn't we utilize a video technology to do that instead? There are so many wins that come along with that. 00:16:26:03 - 00:16:28:19 Unknown So that's another one that I'll mention. 00:16:28:19 - 00:16:37:18 Unknown And then I guess the last piece just kind of on talking specifically about the Navy and technologies that we utilized is really our employee process automation. 00:16:37:18 - 00:16:41:10 Unknown So in it's candidate and employee, but 00:16:41:10 - 00:16:42:15 Unknown it's a little, 00:16:42:15 - 00:17:06:04 Unknown you know, I guess I'll explain it like these are the technologies like Navient specifically is using a technology called OnBase and OnBase is what is flowing our data through our organization. And you can have different applications, but what's really creating the process flow that in a professional or somebody else in the organization would historically be doing. 00:17:06:06 - 00:17:18:18 Unknown So this automation technology, we've kind of trained it to do the manual repeatable things that HR Professionals or others in the organization have historically been doing. 00:17:18:18 - 00:17:33:09 Unknown So it's everything from the higher process through retire. So it's our performance management system. It's where our new hire surveys are tracked. It's where HR Is communicating with our internal i.t. Team to say we have a new employee. 00:17:33:09 - 00:17:55:11 Unknown Let's make sure that all their i.t. Things are set up prior to their first days. So that's been probably the biggest component of our technology offering and really what's made a big significant difference on an hourly perspective. Absolutely. That's those are awesome ideas and that's great to hear that they're there working out for your organization. They're successful. 00:17:55:11 - 00:17:58:22 Unknown And I know working with technology isn't always easy. 00:17:58:22 - 00:18:25:18 Unknown And some people may say they are like tech savvy or some people are just uncomfortable, or some organizations even are uncomfortable with kind of moving forward with technology. So do you have any or I guess have you seen any like common misconceptions or concerns that HR Professionals have about adopting technology into into their work? Yeah. 00:18:25:18 - 00:18:29:24 Unknown I'll address this one in a really short way and hopefully this is reflective. 00:18:29:24 - 00:19:04:04 Unknown And it's not just any it's not just HR Professionals. I think it's anyone that might be a bit hesitant. Technology. One of my favorite quotes that i heard kind of just working in this space is we're not going to be replaced by technology. So if that's a concern that maybe the technology is going to do my job going forward and the organization will need me, we're going to be replaced by people that have adopted technology and leaned into it and really explored how they can use it, because technology is here and just more of this is coming. 00:19:04:04 - 00:19:24:02 Unknown So your ability to adapt and be open minded to how you can utilize technology and how you can use it to your benefit to potentially be more strategic is a huge benefit to each of us. That's that's a great point too. I feel like I hear that all the time. Like we're all going to get replaced by tech, right? 00:19:24:04 - 00:19:53:03 Unknown But that's like the opposite. Like you want to know everything you can about technology to use that and better yourself and in your organization. Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked about how technology has evolved throughout the years, but how about the role of HR Professionals? How has how is that evolved with the integration of technology and what new skills are really becoming essential now nowadays? 00:19:53:05 - 00:20:25:04 Unknown Yeah. Good question. I think about that even with the question prior, you know, our our role has how that's evolved is we're no longer managing data at a micro level. So hopefully. Right. That's the case and that's certainly how our HR kind of experience is evolving. You know, I may never touch someone's benefit election form where that was likely a multi-touch historically before I was utilizing technology 00:20:25:04 - 00:20:35:09 Unknown and then really kind of what skills can we adapt to be more essential in our roles is becoming more technical and strategic. 00:20:35:09 - 00:21:01:16 Unknown And I know that's kind of a very generic answer, but, you know, HR is not doing what HR used to do. Yes, those core functionalities fall within our space, but our day to day work is really changing. And so finding ways to kind of think outside the box and I think we'll talk in a little bit as well about some of those key skills about how to embrace and engage technology. 00:21:01:18 - 00:21:30:08 Unknown Absolutely. And how about now looking at kind of at a different angle, are there any ethical or privacy considerations that HR Professionals need to be aware of one kind of going through this technological landscape and process. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, i think about that ethical and privacy consideration. It's huge in HR Right. We are holding some of the most confidential data within the organization. 00:21:30:08 - 00:21:54:14 Unknown You know, people's personal information is kind of within the realm of what we have in our systems. And really it's the same rules apply as have always applied. You know, we've always had that sensitivity piece and actually it's many more rules because there's a lot more state and federal compliance pieces that are coming out around employment law that we need to track and sure, we're being sensitive to. 00:21:54:14 - 00:21:58:20 Unknown So, you know, I think that piece absolutely still applies. 00:21:58:20 - 00:22:13:03 Unknown I think our own s as HR Professionals as really to ensure that we understand those and ensure that they're supported within the technology cases that we're using and ask those questions of the vendors and partners that we're working with. 00:22:13:03 - 00:22:16:12 Unknown You know, I think about even just digitizing filing cabinets. 00:22:16:12 - 00:22:40:03 Unknown And i think i spoke a little bit to that earlier. And what technology are you going to store that data and who's going to have access to the different types of file? Certainly not always the same people to all the different types of data. How are you doing document retention in a digitized system versus how we used to do that and more of a paper system. 00:22:40:05 - 00:22:45:21 Unknown So certainly employer employee filing cabinets is a significant piece of that as well. 00:22:45:21 - 00:23:08:06 Unknown I'm going to give just a little warning here. So I would say don't avoid technology and the benefits that you can get from utilizing technology because of these fears almost heighten your experience and your curiosity, the technology that you're going to use or thinking about using based on that fear. 00:23:08:06 - 00:23:31:01 Unknown Right. Ask questions, do research, you know, talk to your peers, talk to other partners, like Emory is a great partner. You know, what are they doing from a technology perspective? Certainly when I'm looking to evaluate a new technology, I'm ensuring that I'm feeling pretty confident that those things are answered prior to investing in that technology. 00:23:31:01 - 00:23:34:24 Unknown Absolutely. And I guess that's a perfect way into the next question. 00:23:35:01 - 00:24:00:08 Unknown Some organizations or HR Teams may have not tapped into any technology yet. So do you have any best practices or advice for teams looking to start incorporating technology into their organizations? Yeah. And actually, when we did the MRA conference last year, we did a poll to kind of see where people at from that technology adoption or adoption perspective. 00:24:00:08 - 00:24:26:09 Unknown So, you know, kind of core is digitizing and like finding opportunities to digitize. Are there documents that are in paper form that can be digitized and identifying what those are and kind of moving forward with that? I would say utilizing your vendors so vendors, partners, you know, who is really speaking in that HR Technology space trusted partners that you can lean on to help 00:24:26:09 - 00:24:28:05 Unknown help you with that incorporation. 00:24:28:05 - 00:24:49:10 Unknown You don't have to be a technology expert, but you need to have kind of the right partners and the right vendors that kind of talked about, you know, be curious, you know, look at look at your current processes. I think about that almost every day. Is there a process that I'm doing that I don't need to do because it's very manual and it's not using my human element in order to achieve that? 00:24:49:12 - 00:24:53:02 Unknown Is that something I can put within one of the technologies that are available? 00:24:53:02 - 00:25:06:22 Unknown Yeah. And so kind of that B curious piece. The other thing I'll add to that real quick is, you know, like I remember last year everyone was talking about or me was earlier this year, everyone was talking about techy beauty and what does that technology mean and how are we going to utilize that? 00:25:06:22 - 00:25:27:05 Unknown And I mean, that was true for me too. I was asked by a fellow up here, what did I think about chat and how that was going to change the landscape of human resources and how we adopt technology. And I don't know. So then I look into that. I talk to people who's using chatbot for HR What are they using it for? 00:25:27:07 - 00:25:50:05 Unknown Are there opportunities? You know, and i kind of ask myself these questions rather than why shouldn't i use that you and how should I use that? Or how could I use that? And who else is using it in a really successful way? And would that make sense within our organization? Yeah, absolutely. I always be curious and always be reevaluating your current processes. 00:25:50:07 - 00:26:07:10 Unknown Absolutely. So we've talked a lot about HR Technology implementation with the organization and the employer specifically. But how about from an employee perspective, what are really the benefits of an employee using technology? 00:26:07:10 - 00:26:22:17 Unknown Yes, i think two things i would point out here. One, we've kind of already cover, which is the self-service piece. I mean, there's such a huge value in employees being able to have the data that they want real time, whether that's going in to have access to a system to update their address or is it? 00:26:22:17 - 00:26:34:05 Unknown I want to see what my manager and I collaborated on around performance management last quarter, just to refresh myself, if I'm, you know, kind of keeping up with what we had talked about, 00:26:34:05 - 00:26:46:09 Unknown there's just a huge value in them having real time information and self-serve options. The other piece that I would say is a potential benefit is really how HR 00:26:46:09 - 00:27:07:04 Unknown Can be utilized within your organization. You know, i don't really want to talk to employees about like, here's a copy of last year's w-4. I want them to have access to that so that I can be having really meaningful conversations with our employees. You know, my day is primarily spent talking to employees about, you know, how are they driving their careers forward? 00:27:07:06 - 00:27:35:19 Unknown Are there communication challenges that they're having within the organization that we can walk through and help to strengthen that development for them? How are they learning and growing or things like that that are more of the human element side of HR For sure. Well, you kind of mentioned this chat to bettina. Last question, but everyone always wants to know, like, what's the next biggest technology thing? 00:27:35:19 - 00:28:08:00 Unknown What's the latest and greatest thing? So I guess what trends do you really foresee in the future of our technology and do you have any advice on how HR Professionals can really prepare for these changes? Yeah, you know, i don't know that i would speak to any one specific technology. I think we're going to continue to see more growth in some of our more robust like the risks or hcm technologies we're going to be hearing more about. 00:28:08:02 - 00:28:37:01 Unknown I mean, I think we've just cracked the surface and I don't even know that we're fully utilized in that to its full capabilities within HR So i think more around that artificial intelligence, certainly the automation space as we see our organizations adopting to more automation type technologies for their core line of business. I think our professionals are going to have opportunity to really tap into that, to provide automations for the work that they do. 00:28:37:03 - 00:28:40:12 Unknown Definitely more around integrations. We're seeing a lot with 00:28:40:12 - 00:28:58:07 Unknown technologies that have the ability to integrate with other technologies, but we're also still using some technologies that won't integrate, or they have very limited integration capabilities. So I think we're going to see more around that. And then certainly some of these emerging technologies, you know, and catch up would certainly be an example of that. 00:28:58:07 - 00:29:01:01 Unknown And then I guess maybe I'll answer on the preparing for, 00:29:01:01 - 00:29:03:13 Unknown you know, and I think this kind of just goes back to, 00:29:03:13 - 00:29:23:15 Unknown you know, lean in now so that it almost eases that lift later on. So what aren't you familiar with in the technology space right now, or what gives you hesitation in the technology space? Have, you know, have dialog and learn more about that now because it's not going to get scaled back and it's not going to stay the same. 00:29:23:17 - 00:29:43:19 Unknown We're going to continue to grow this technology experience as we're seen in kind of all areas of our lives. And so kind of jumping on that and starting to take just some initial steps will absolutely benefit folks as they can to as we continue to go. Yeah, absolutely. And there's great resources out there and we'll provide some resources on 00:29:43:19 - 00:29:47:10 Unknown just specific tools or different HR 00:29:47:11 - 00:30:08:10 Unknown Technologies that you can learn more about. But as we wrap wrap up here, are there any other specific platforms, tools or resources that you want to recommend to our listeners and our HR Professionals who are interested in kind of exploring technology in their work. Yeah, absolutely. So, i mean, i would say some of the standard ones, you know, HR 00:30:08:12 - 00:30:35:23 Unknown I asked tools, whatever that might be. Explore what you have, explore what the offering is within that certainly app our applicant tracking systems. I will kind of do a shout out for the recorded interviews where using a technology called badge and we got that through. We got that partnership through our partnership with MRA. But it's been a game changer on the candidate side, both in the candidate experience as well as our internal experience. 00:30:36:00 - 00:30:52:04 Unknown And then I think just this whole piece around document management technologies and automation technologies. So I mentioned we're utilizing OnBase as the technology that we're utilizing. But I think just leaning into those automation processes, it's it's a significant 00:30:52:04 - 00:30:59:00 Unknown value on the side. Yeah, No, that's helpful to hear kind of where you're at and what's been successful for you. 00:30:59:00 - 00:31:19:17 Unknown So that's that's great. But Tricia, I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and really sharing your expertise and tips on the latest in HR Technology. So to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, i would urge you to comment something new that you learn or anything that you really want to add on to this conversation. 00:31:19:18 - 00:31:43:00 Unknown We want to hear what you're doing. What are your trends? What are your ideas? And don't forget to share out this episode and consider joining MRA. If you aren't a member or member already. We have all the resources you need in the show Notes below, including resources on our topic today and Tricia's contact information. If you want to get in touch with her or ask any follow up questions otherwise. 00:31:43:00 - 00:32:03:03 Unknown Thank you so much for tuning in today. And Tricia, thank you again. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minute Thrive so you don't miss out. 00:32:03:04 - 00:32:07:21 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... Product Mastery Now with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode:  I am interviewing speakers at my favorite annual conference for product managers, the PDMA Inspire Innovation Conference.  This discussion is with Shawn Houser-Fedor, whose session is titled “Creating a Recipe for Innovation Success: Hershey Chocolate Company's InnovationOps Story.” Shawn is a R&D Senior Director at Hershey and she is about to share with us how InnovationOps helped Hershey and can help your organization achieve innovation at scale. This episode is sponsored by PDMA, the Product Development and Management Association. PDMA is a global community of professional members whose skills, expertise, and experience power the most recognized and respected innovative companies in the world. PDMA is also the longest-running professional association for product managers, leaders, and innovators, having started in 1976 and contributing research and knowledge to our discipline for nearly 50 years. I have enjoyed being a member of PDMA for more than a decade, finding their resources and network very valuable. Learn more about them at PDMA.org.

Description:

Peak Load Management Association Webinar: Jenny Roehm, Sr. Manager, Utility Solutions, Schneider Electric; Michael Brown, Dir., Energy Services, NV Energy; Ross Malme, President & CEO, Malme Energy Consulting; Judy Knight, Chief Development Office, PLMA

Description: Never before have there been five generations in the workforce. Each generation has its own quirks, styles, likes, dislikes, and ways to work, communicate, and even learn! In this podcast episode, we are going to focus on the newest generation joining us in the workplace—Generation Alpha! Resources: Learning & Development  A Multi-Generational Workforce Is a Force for Good  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Amanda Mosteller  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:44:20 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, welcome, everybody. We are so glad you're here and I hope you're ready to talk generations today, specifically on one that you may have never heard before. So never before. There have been five generations in the workforce and each generation, as you know, has their own quirks, styles, likes, dislikes, ways to work, communicate, and even learn. 00:00:44:22 - 00:01:11:06 Unknown So in this podcast episode, specifically, we're going to be focusing on the newest generation joining us in the workplace, and that is Generation Alpha. So it looks like Gen Alpha is the group of generation following generation Z. So Gen X'ers are born in the early 2010's going through the early 2020s. So we know and are finding that each generation brings something really unique to the table. 00:01:11:08 - 00:01:47:13 Unknown So. Amanda Mosteller, MRA's director of talent Development, is joining me today to talk about Gen Alpha how you should really update your L&D strategy to include these Gen Alpha learners. Make sure to stay tuned throughout the episode and we'll tell you how you can win a podcast swag item at the end. Just exciting little note there. But Amanda, we know we now know who Gen Alphas are, but really my first question to you is why is it essential for organizations to now adapt their training and development strategies for this generation? 00:01:47:15 - 00:02:21:09 Unknown When I think about Gen Alpha, I have this case study across the hall and it's my kids. They were born in 2010. We all went through this interesting thing, maybe you've heard of it called a global pandemic. And that pandemic expedited lots of things for all generations. One of the things that expedited for Gen Alpha that is different than other generations is integrated learning in school. 00:02:21:09 - 00:02:21:24 Unknown So 00:02:21:24 - 00:02:40:10 Unknown I'm not talking about adult learning theory principles versus child learning theory principles. We're not going into Andrew versus pedagogy here, but what we are going to talk about is being used to what the source of knowledge plays a part in for for these kids. So 00:02:40:10 - 00:02:46:21 Unknown in most of Gen Alpha was fourth grade or younger when the pandemic hit. 00:02:46:23 - 00:03:11:04 Unknown Prior to that, teachers in the classroom did a lot of teaching to the whole group from the front, doing activities, walking around and helping. They weren't putting elementary school kids into these Google class type structures at such a young age. They were doing that more in high school and certainly in college. 00:03:11:04 - 00:03:21:13 Unknown But the pandemic launched an expedited ETD, putting kids at younger ages into these platforms to learn things. 00:03:21:15 - 00:03:49:18 Unknown What that has done is changed their expectation of what the knowledge expert in the room's function is and how they learn. So Gen Z would have started doing that in college, mostly older. Gen Z. It wasn't until college younger, Gen Z, maybe in high school, some certainly not in elementary school, but now it's embedded in elementary school from like third and fourth grade on. 00:03:49:20 - 00:04:18:21 Unknown Because the schools put money into these platforms. They have licenses, they might as well use them. Right. And so the reason it's important for us to think about is because a lot of organizations are still hanging on to e-learning or instructor led training, possibly blended where we do some e-learning, pre class and post class. But that's as as diverse as we're getting in our strategy. 00:04:18:23 - 00:04:43:01 Unknown But Gen Z doesn't is looking for something different and Gen Alpha won't even understand it. Let's say. Why on earth are you doing it this way? That's not what the source of truth does. That's not their role in my learning. So it's time now because we have four years before they'll be the oldest part of that generation. To your point of the early 20 tens. 00:04:43:03 - 00:04:51:01 Unknown My kids are born in 2010 and depending on which sociologist time range, you look at 2010, somewhere between there and 2012 00:04:51:01 - 00:04:55:23 Unknown is Gen Alpha. So so they're halfway through eighth grade, everybody. 00:04:55:23 - 00:05:14:21 Unknown But it's, you know, four years until they are eligible for full time work. And so we have four years to really look at how we deliver training now, recognize how it might not even be meeting Gen Z and really not diversified in our strategy to meet Gen Alpha. 00:05:14:21 - 00:05:32:10 Unknown So that's why now's the time to be thinking about this. Well, absolutely. And I know you you kind of touched on some of these points, but I'm interested in knowing some of the key characteristics and really preferences of Gen Gen Alpha when it comes to learning and development. Yeah, 00:05:32:10 - 00:05:34:15 Unknown they're wanting 00:05:34:15 - 00:05:36:07 Unknown more and more 00:05:36:07 - 00:06:02:14 Unknown for the knowledge expert to be their guide to where to find the information and to bounce ideas and discussion off of, to make sure that they're understanding it, but they're not looking for the instructor or the facilitator, or for the learning strategy to be a source of truth, teaching it to them in an in-classroom or B in E learning lengthy E 00:06:02:14 - 00:06:13:11 Unknown learnings, overproduced E learnings, and they check out they're not looking for that. What they're looking for is and I'm going to age myself here, 00:06:13:11 - 00:06:26:24 Unknown my generation might remember and maybe remember Sophie, the Choose Your Path books. So you would read a book and you would get to a page and they would say, okay, you can choose to walk into the scary woods or turn around and go back. 00:06:26:24 - 00:06:45:16 Unknown If you choose to walk into the woods, turn to page 37. If you choose to go back, turn to page 46, and then you would go read if you essentially like, made it to the next stage or something horrible was usually it was a creepy book. It was You should it's something that ends the story for you and you have to go back and choose the other way. 00:06:45:18 - 00:07:05:16 Unknown But younger Gen Zs and Gen Alpha, they're looking for that kind of choose my path in learning. And I don't mean my career path. I mean how I want to learn, how I want information delivered to me, what helps for me and let me make those choices. Let me control that. 00:07:05:16 - 00:07:11:06 Unknown And the knowledge experts are there. Guide in how to find that information. 00:07:11:06 - 00:07:29:01 Unknown What might be helpful. They might come back and say, you know, as I was watching this short, short video or I was reading that blog, you you had the internal blog you have and I want to talk to you about this because I'm trying to understand this concept and how it works in my role. That's what they're looking for. 00:07:29:01 - 00:07:53:21 Unknown They want guidance. They don't want to have to rely on the person to come on Tuesday from 8 to 4 and tell them because they're that they're in class now in school. My kids, for example, are being shown where all the resources are to find the information within like the first 10 minutes of a new subject. And then they might have three days where they're meeting all different kinds of things all on their own. 00:07:53:21 - 00:07:55:01 Unknown So all through 00:07:55:01 - 00:07:58:23 Unknown 90 million different platforms that I have to try and follow to make sure they're doing their homework. But 00:07:58:23 - 00:08:20:10 Unknown that's what they're used to. Their their teachers are learning partners now. They're not the single source of truth. So that's what they're expecting when they come in to a learning strategy of you go to these classes during the first week and then after your first 30 days, you go to these classes every Monday and then you have these E learnings to finish between it between 30 and 60 days. 00:08:20:10 - 00:08:24:08 Unknown And look how diverse we are because we do some in class and some online 00:08:24:08 - 00:08:25:05 Unknown and they would be like 00:08:25:05 - 00:08:33:09 Unknown certain article about that. There are some thing I can go find that without having to do either of those prior. 00:08:33:09 - 00:08:50:11 Unknown Well I know we talked about that Gen Z is similar to Gen Alpha in a lot of ways, but what would make this new Generation Alpha different from Gen Z and how they choose or their content and how that content is really delivered? 00:08:50:12 - 00:08:53:22 Unknown Yeah, a couple of key differences. 00:08:53:22 - 00:09:00:10 Unknown One is I mentioned it kind of in the beginning of our chat for a Gen Z. 00:09:00:10 - 00:09:17:21 Unknown This the source of truth being the guide and lots of resources and we don't come to a room five days a week for this. We do it in lots of ways. That really kicked off for older Gen Zs. 00:09:17:21 - 00:09:25:10 Unknown We're talking college like that just didn't happen until college for younger Gen Z sort of in high school. 00:09:25:10 - 00:09:39:01 Unknown And the difference, like I was mentioning in Gen Alpha, we're talking elementary school now you're doing this as they learn how to learn, which I think is really important for us to recognize. These are the shaping years where they learn how to learn. 00:09:39:05 - 00:09:43:20 Unknown I'm teaching my kids how to study. I am teaching them what deadlines mean. 00:09:43:20 - 00:10:08:15 Unknown You get homework done in a certain time. A lot of a lot of our kids, depending on your districts and stuff, but they don't possibly do homework or not until they're kind of older. So deadlines and turning things in on a certain time for my kids over the past couple of years has been like that is in and of itself something I'm teaching them the importance of 00:10:08:15 - 00:10:09:21 Unknown even that 00:10:09:21 - 00:10:10:18 Unknown is negotiable. 00:10:10:18 - 00:10:24:18 Unknown At my son's school, there's a time that it's due and then the teachers will say, Hey, it's missing, and then he'll have like two weeks to go and go get that finished and turned in and he gets full, quote, grades for it throwing me off. But 00:10:24:18 - 00:10:31:12 Unknown that's one one key difference is this is happening much younger than the other generations. 00:10:31:14 - 00:10:42:18 Unknown And for the other generations, it was just kind of nice and part of being an adult. Now. And for our for Gen Alpha, it's shaping how they learn because this is what's happening at this still early stages of their life. 00:10:42:18 - 00:10:52:14 Unknown The second key difference is everyone talks about, you know, tick tock or YouTube shorts or these types of things less 00:10:52:14 - 00:10:53:14 Unknown produced 00:10:53:14 - 00:10:56:05 Unknown shorter snippets, much more 00:10:56:05 - 00:10:59:06 Unknown authentic, much easier to connect to the person 00:10:59:06 - 00:11:07:07 Unknown for Gen Alpha that is part of everyday everything, including now they're not going to tick tock in school. 00:11:07:09 - 00:11:31:13 Unknown I don't think. I don't think not right. I don't think teachers are saying that, but they have, you know, as his wife, my son will they'll be introducing a new history thing and his teachers will have copied and embedded in their discussion boards these really short little like YouTube shorts kind of videos of somebody with their phone introducing a topic. 00:11:31:13 - 00:11:35:08 Unknown And they might have do cutaways to different scenes from a movie or something 00:11:35:08 - 00:11:58:18 Unknown very much like that. Gen Z While they are totally on the Tik-tok train and Facebook is for old people and all of that jazz stuff where the YouTube generation actually they're more younger, millennials and Gen Zs are more into the YouTube source, which while still my own video system, I'm 00:11:58:18 - 00:12:07:11 Unknown still accepting of green screens, still accepting of that kind of sort of produce, not overly produced, but that's kind of okay, 00:12:07:11 - 00:12:09:01 Unknown younger Gen Z. 00:12:09:01 - 00:12:22:05 Unknown And certainly as you get into Gen Alpha, as is, I try to show my son really neat produce created videos. He completely checks out and walks away. If I pull up something that someone did with their phone, he's like, sucked in. Yes. 00:12:22:05 - 00:12:32:15 Unknown It's going to change how we create that video content, I think. And where organizations invest their learning strategy dollars to create some on demand content, what does that need to look like? 00:12:32:17 - 00:12:42:07 Unknown Does it need to be as as fanciful as we make it? I don't know that it does. Yeah. No, absolutely. I feel like they they want the content that looks like a 00:12:42:07 - 00:12:47:16 Unknown not an over over sort of or overproduced, like you said, Tik tok like 00:12:47:16 - 00:13:06:22 Unknown something that they can relate to and they can relate to a Tik Tok of someone who just pulled out their phone and started talking and showing them how to do something, but they might not necessarily be able to relate to someone who is put together a whole production with, like you said, along a longer video showing you how to do something. 00:13:06:22 - 00:13:31:07 Unknown So I totally understand that and get that. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned that organizations do need to start thinking about this now and they have a few years now to start kind of rethinking their strategy. So going after that, what is really a primary difference in how an organization's development strategy currently would want to consider adjusting to integrate this next generation? 00:13:31:07 - 00:13:41:01 Unknown Learner What I love that you use the phrase integrate because what I would never encourage an organization to do is pivot 00:13:41:01 - 00:14:01:17 Unknown that generation and completely exclude the fact that, as you said in our opener, there are four other generations work for us still here. Just added one, right? We're bringing in some new folks that don't learn at all the way I mean, the way they're looking to learn in the way Gen X is looking to learn and how we're used to it. 00:14:01:19 - 00:14:05:19 Unknown I should say it's not even looking to learn. It's what we're used to and therefore comfortable with 00:14:05:19 - 00:14:14:18 Unknown polar opposites. Right? But Gen X is still there. Elder millennials like myself, we're still here, Baby boomers are still there, and 00:14:14:18 - 00:14:19:06 Unknown on boards at least, you know, the traditionalist generation, my father 00:14:19:06 - 00:14:22:15 Unknown that may even be on a board. It would be terrifying, but he would be on board. 00:14:22:17 - 00:14:26:09 Unknown They're still around, right? So how are we 00:14:26:09 - 00:14:47:10 Unknown a What I have seen success in and what I am encouraging organizations to do is integrate strategies that will include that next generation while not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and getting rid of your existing strategies that include the generations that are still within our workforce, 00:14:47:10 - 00:15:11:13 Unknown that what we need to do and I was having a conversation a couple of weeks ago with a young lady newer into the industry, newer into the work career field, and she and I were talking about this topic actually, and she said, I just wish that organizations would give options, so I don't want to go to this 00:15:11:13 - 00:15:13:08 Unknown leaders program. 00:15:13:10 - 00:15:27:15 Unknown She's branding the organization. So we're talking new hire, kind of get to know the organization program where you've created this schedule. And I go do all of these things at these times. What I would love to do for me is have my resource person 00:15:27:15 - 00:15:44:17 Unknown that is like my guide and how I learn. And then I could we offer this information in this class on these days, if that's of interest, we do have some short video options to go over the same information and you can talk with your manager in between. 00:15:44:19 - 00:16:18:12 Unknown We have some great talking point guides at the end of each video and you could do it that way. We also have these articles over here if you want to read them and kind of learn about our culture that way and talk to your manager. So why I referenced that Choose Your Path book when we first started chatting is because that's what started blinking in my head while she was talking is, my gosh, we could deliver the same information in a multitude of ways and to be inclusive of all generations, let your learners choose their learning path. 00:16:18:14 - 00:16:41:21 Unknown Let them decide what makes sense for how they like to get information and who are their sources of truth to help them connect it all together. We do need that, you know, administrative control and understanding that you are learning this stuff, that we are making sure you're walking away with what we want you to walk away with. But that the concept that it has to be 00:16:41:21 - 00:16:52:04 Unknown built by a learning strategist or built and led by an instructor to accomplish that would be outdated thinking. 00:16:52:04 - 00:17:09:06 Unknown I think there are other ways that we could provide it, because what we are talking about makes sense for ABC Learner. What others might be talking about makes sense for deaf learner, and we need to help learners through Zeke So 00:17:09:06 - 00:17:11:08 Unknown don't get rid of the content you have. 00:17:11:08 - 00:17:20:02 Unknown Take the time now to look at all the content that you've identified as an organization is important for us to develop our employees on or in. 00:17:20:04 - 00:17:24:06 Unknown How can I take this instructor LED class or this 30 minute e-learning 00:17:24:06 - 00:17:39:16 Unknown and distill it into something different? Can we create blogs? Do we have podcast recording approaches? They're all internal. They're in a bank, a resource bank, and they can go in and click on, you know, episode one episode to episode three, and they have a week to listen to them all. 00:17:39:16 - 00:17:46:10 Unknown And that's how they that would be great for them. And then at the end of each podcast episode, you say, okay, so 00:17:46:10 - 00:18:05:11 Unknown we encourage you between now, when you listen to your next episode to talk to your manager about and then you put in those three talking points and then they would go chat with their manager and the manager knows what they are and just same information delivered in a multitude of ways and let the learner own what makes the most sense for them. 00:18:05:17 - 00:18:11:17 Unknown That's what adapting to include these other generations 00:18:11:17 - 00:18:12:14 Unknown should look like. 00:18:12:14 - 00:18:30:06 Unknown Those are all great points and great ideas. You think of God choose your path or choose your pathway, and I just immediately think of the tic tac sound. Choose your fighter. Like that just comes up in my head. I know where that comes from, right? Where is that wrong with your line? 00:18:30:07 - 00:18:35:13 Unknown And I can picture the sound in everything. Mortal Mortal Kombat 00:18:35:13 - 00:18:40:02 Unknown is a very, very, very. There's a Gen Z statement for 00:18:40:02 - 00:18:43:00 Unknown those. Fantastic. I loved it. But yes, that's what we're talking about. 00:18:43:00 - 00:18:57:02 Unknown Well, moving on here, the phrase authentic city often comes up with when we hear about the next generation or what does this really mean in terms of content development and curation and. 00:18:58:13 - 00:19:01:17 Unknown So I was mentioning, you know, 00:19:01:17 - 00:19:12:09 Unknown they get disengaged with overly produced stuff talking about what in the industry we often call the happy path, 00:19:12:09 - 00:19:22:15 Unknown where in training class we talk about the perfect this is the perfect scenario and here's how you would do this and then you would do this and then they will respond this way and then you would do this and everybody's happy. 00:19:22:17 - 00:19:25:15 Unknown Conflict resolved. And 00:19:25:15 - 00:19:31:00 Unknown what folks are looking for in terms of authenticity is tell me what it really looks like. How does it really go? 00:19:31:00 - 00:19:51:11 Unknown Can you not look perfect while you explain this to me? And can you not be in front of some green screen? I don't mean our beautiful logo backgrounds. I mean in these in these trainings are like these green screened, amazing modern corporate offices that, you know, they're not actually standing in because, you know, very few offices actually look like that in the world. 00:19:51:13 - 00:20:11:21 Unknown And any all of those layers together make the whole learning disingenuous. And they tune out because this person has no concept of what it's really like or this person doesn't. Yeah, doesn't speak my language and I can't connect with them. What they're looking for is 00:20:11:21 - 00:20:21:09 Unknown and I call them selfie selfie videos, like I could hold my phone up, just do a chat, a five minute chat or less on 00:20:21:09 - 00:20:35:09 Unknown the six behaviors, adaptive leadership behaviors, and then say, try this one next time you want to be direct, try this when you want to flex into coaching and they that feels more real. 00:20:35:11 - 00:20:57:23 Unknown You standing there. I'm a I'm a person. I'm not in the most perfect setting and I'm having a quick conversation with you about what it looks like and and how it works. And that feels more real. I am a leadership coach, so it makes more sense that I would talk about that. It would make no sense if I made a video about marketing strategy. 00:20:57:23 - 00:20:59:05 Unknown I don't do that. 00:20:59:05 - 00:21:13:14 Unknown But having a marketing person pop on and say, Marketing hot tip of the week and they know who they are because they're in their organization, it just is a quick hit and it's one of them. It's one of my team members. It's a person I know 00:21:13:14 - 00:21:18:00 Unknown in a space that I feel like if I walked up to their desk, they would say it to me in that exact same way. 00:21:18:00 - 00:21:31:12 Unknown And that's authenticity. Yes. And I can relate to that. Even being a younger, a younger employee, like that's the type of learning that I want to or that I want to see so be prejudged. So we get in there 00:21:31:12 - 00:21:38:17 Unknown just I mean, I'll just interview you. You tell what you want. Exactly. So tell me if I'm wrong. Okay. 00:21:38:20 - 00:21:42:09 Unknown You know what? You are 100% on. Right on. 00:21:42:09 - 00:22:02:24 Unknown Well, we're we've been bringing up phones a lot and Tic TAC and all this, so we've got to bring up technology at some point. So how has really technology shaped the way that Gen Alpha learns and what role should other digital tools play in these modern training programs? Yeah, I mean, Google Classroom 00:22:02:24 - 00:22:05:21 Unknown is part of elementary school. 00:22:05:23 - 00:22:26:13 Unknown Google Classroom becomes they all those all of them have like an online platform. All of the kids have Chromebooks instead of books. But all of the kids most of the kids schools have that by junior high. My son had that by seventh grade, but up through sixth grade, a lot of stuff was done on these interactive whiteboards in the room or something like that. 00:22:26:13 - 00:22:53:06 Unknown Now, I know every district is different. I know every private school versus public school and all of it can look different. My son goes to public school. I can all look different. But all of the districts are using these platforms for where the content is held. So he'll go to a platform and then there's I kid you not 12 different apps 00:22:53:06 - 00:22:58:12 Unknown that he would be clicking in and out of to get his classwork done. 00:22:58:14 - 00:23:13:22 Unknown His math class alone has three apps that he uses. The only class that feels even remotely like how I used to learn is his social studies class. And that's because they only have one app they use. I didn't have any apps, but like 00:23:13:22 - 00:23:20:16 Unknown that's how he expects to go find content and he finds it on his own with the teacher being the guide. 00:23:20:16 - 00:23:28:13 Unknown If Here's the things I want you to accomplish today, here's some resources to do it. His English teacher is teaching them how to use chat gpg 00:23:28:13 - 00:23:43:04 Unknown coming into an organization when he gets into full time work that doesn't even use any type of technology like that in any way would feel very weird to him because he's been really will at that point have been using it for five years in school, you know, 00:23:43:04 - 00:23:46:02 Unknown so they're looking for a source. 00:23:46:08 - 00:23:54:23 Unknown They're looking for. I always say you just have a pond and the teacher tells you what to fish for and you go fish for it, which makes no sense to him. And he tells me he doesn't fish, but 00:23:54:23 - 00:23:56:12 Unknown the point being, 00:23:56:12 - 00:24:04:18 Unknown that's how it's being done. Right? And we have these technologies in our or in our organizations right now. 00:24:04:20 - 00:24:16:18 Unknown So many organizations have some sort of collaborative tool they use, whether it's teams, whether it is WebEx teams, there's Microsoft teams, there's WebEx teams, 00:24:16:18 - 00:24:24:04 Unknown whether it is even Google Slack or Google Hangouts. Right. Some free version of a tool to collaborate. 00:24:24:04 - 00:24:34:16 Unknown Organizations are doing that. It used to be colleges used Blackboard. Right. And that was again pre me I didn't use I did the Dewey Decimal system and I went to library but 00:24:34:16 - 00:24:38:11 Unknown there was blackboard and that was kind of it and it was in college. 00:24:38:13 - 00:24:46:06 Unknown Now we're talking just how I get my assignments work done in sixth grade. So 00:24:46:06 - 00:25:03:01 Unknown we have these capabilities in our organizations right now. We don't think of using them. Not every organization, I should say. I have some of our members that do, but not every organization thinks about how do we use this as part of our learning strategy and not just as part of our collaboration tool. 00:25:03:03 - 00:25:06:18 Unknown That's where I think we can. You can do this 00:25:06:18 - 00:25:18:00 Unknown utilizing a lot of tools that you have at your disposal, and you should utilize all of them. Because remember, I'm talking about creating a learning path, not pivoting, integrating. 00:25:18:00 - 00:25:22:20 Unknown And I would say going off of that. Then follow up question to that is, 00:25:22:20 - 00:25:38:00 Unknown do you have or have you seen any organizations that have already started to kind of to where they're more integrate their training and development programs for general hire already? 00:25:38:02 - 00:26:00:09 Unknown Yeah, Yeah, we do. We have a couple of members. It's interesting they're in the one is in the of Rackspace so they started doing this not for Gen Alpha but because a lot of their team members are in their vans and on the road. So they're not you can't do a atria system e-learning because we don't give them computers and yes we all have mobile learning. 00:26:00:09 - 00:26:27:24 Unknown But if you look at mobile learning and an L.M. learning management system, platforms that are mobile enabled, it's the same video on a smaller screen. That's the only difference. It is a completely redone for your phone. It's still a video and you still might have quiz questions that pop up in between and you just are doing it on a smaller screen so it's not actually redone for mobile. 00:26:27:24 - 00:26:40:15 Unknown So it wasn't really working for them. So they started creating these things because they did have certain pieces of content that were hands on. And so you have to come to the warehouse to do it, 00:26:40:15 - 00:26:49:14 Unknown but we offer it a multitude of times because of schedules. So I might have an installation scheduled that day. And we can't stop all installations as a business. 00:26:49:14 - 00:27:12:08 Unknown We aren't going to do that. That's silly. So well offered and multiple times to fit your schedule. So people were starting to choose their own path already based on that. That works for me. And then they all had teams and so they started creating teams channels for content. There are two new create a channel. Here's a lot of ways this can benefit a learning strategy. 00:27:12:10 - 00:27:16:05 Unknown One, it's a it's a mobile. You can install teams on your phone, right 00:27:16:05 - 00:27:31:07 Unknown When you have a channel that you belong to, let's say new employee channel or emerging leaders channel or customer service channel. And it's not us talking with the members, it's learning how to be great at our customer services. We're at their homes and we're doing these installations. 00:27:31:07 - 00:27:55:10 Unknown What happens is they get added to the channel because either say they want to or everybody does. For the first year, whichever their strategy is, the channel has a chat. So they would have ongoing discussions all the time in the moment, coaching with the the guide there, but they also have their cohort of learners of other people. So they've just dealt with this situation, you know, not knowing if I did it right. 00:27:55:10 - 00:28:34:23 Unknown What's your opinion and the groups chatting about it then another tab for the channels, those files and they would have procedures. F.A. Qs, all kinds of sources of information there for them. They also could have videos in that file and they, there's a lot of different apps you can add on to any team's channel. So they would have all these different things, including a scheduler, so that if they did have in-person classes coming up on this topic and it was something that you feel like you needed more help in, you could go to the scheduler, click it, it linked to the LMS to register so you can track. 00:28:35:00 - 00:28:39:04 Unknown Like I said, you still going to have some sort of tracking system to the stuff 00:28:39:04 - 00:28:53:01 Unknown and people that wanted to go to the in-person class and they, they would have the multiple sessions and they would click it and they would come, but you didn't have to. And some people the way the the soapies, some videos and the chat function worked for them 00:28:53:01 - 00:28:54:22 Unknown and they didn't do it for that generation. 00:28:54:22 - 00:28:58:19 Unknown But I told them, I said, Well, you're in luck. You're already set up thumbs up. My 00:28:58:19 - 00:29:03:24 Unknown early start. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, and they did a lot of their 00:29:03:24 - 00:29:05:18 Unknown they would reach into the chat 00:29:05:18 - 00:29:14:07 Unknown channel and say, hey, we're looking to update our videos. Anybody want to come? So to that authenticity point, they were just shooting them with their own. 00:29:14:09 - 00:29:18:09 Unknown I don't know if it was their phones probably a little bit fancier, but their own like handheld 00:29:18:09 - 00:29:42:19 Unknown videos with volunteers of team members. So so people are showing up. We're not producing. We knocked around an hour and then within like a half hour it was up and in the in the team's channel on that subject. So using teams not just for a collaborative tool, but as a development piece of the strategy and they just did it beautifully. 00:29:42:21 - 00:29:45:06 Unknown I was like, You're good. High five here. 00:29:45:06 - 00:29:50:05 Unknown that's a great it's a great example of a good success story. So yeah, 00:29:50:05 - 00:30:13:20 Unknown I do also want to reiterate the point I know we talked about, but that there are are also other generations in the workplace simultaneously. So can you just kind of reiterate the point or talk about how this strategic adjustment or integration, what that really means for for those learners of different generations? 00:30:13:22 - 00:30:50:11 Unknown Yes. And you used the pivotal word again, integration, right? Don't throw out what you already have. Just use it. You already have a strategy that is identified important information that you as an organization, agree. You should invest your time and energy into developing your people on. Because whatever learning strategy you have that involves a person coordinating it, people spending time outside of their daily work to learn it means you as an organization have determined it's worth the time investment and possibly depending on what it is, the financial investment. 00:30:50:14 - 00:31:11:11 Unknown So don't get rid of any of that. It's saying how can we also deliver that in potentially more of a choose your own path kind of way? Can we take that information? And what are the exercises that for someone that doesn't need to or want to go to a learning for workshop approach we can take out and still give them that information. 00:31:11:12 - 00:31:13:11 Unknown It's more of like a 00:31:13:11 - 00:31:36:15 Unknown like an article kind of thing to read. And then instead of exercises, we finish it with those talking points that you go chat with your manager about. Don't expect people to read it and retain it. You have to kind of let them in and they need to let the manager know. They read this, they want to talk about these points, but how I integrate it into my job role, the threat that other people might go to the class on the same content, but 00:31:36:15 - 00:31:48:19 Unknown it's taking what already exists because it's been determined as important and then spending some energy in providing it in some different ways so that as other generations 00:31:48:19 - 00:32:10:11 Unknown and other learner preferences, you also might find you. I don't want to assume that there aren't, you know, my mom as she's a boomer, she's a boomer like the first year, the baby boomer. But she and I talk about it and she's like, man, there was a lot of stuff. I would sit through glass and think, this could have been like a quick walk by my cube and tell me and I would have been fine. 00:32:10:11 - 00:32:18:09 Unknown She's a math mathematician and engineer woman, so most things she felt could have been handled through a quick conversation. But 00:32:18:09 - 00:32:27:11 Unknown so you might be surprised as to who you see take advantage of more of that self-guided, not even just self-paced, self-guided 00:32:27:11 - 00:32:36:07 Unknown learning strategy. No, that's a good point To just mention that some gen zers or gen alphas may not all take the same approach or. 00:32:36:07 - 00:33:00:22 Unknown They're all the same way. So that's a good point to bring up. But kind of wrapping up here, do I know we talked about a lot today, but do you have three main takeaways that our listeners can kind of walk away with in terms of how they can really start integrating learning and development strategies for Gen Alpha learners? 00:33:00:24 - 00:33:08:14 Unknown Absolutely. Stop throwing so much money into production for any of your video stuff. You don't have to 00:33:08:14 - 00:33:21:17 Unknown sow more authentic content that feels more real. So embrace the fact that you might be talking about the happy path and spend time talking about reality. 00:33:21:17 - 00:33:28:13 Unknown Diverse. Don't get rid of what you have. Diversify how someone can access the information shared and what you have. 00:33:28:13 - 00:33:39:22 Unknown And the third one, and this is going to be the hardest for any organization potentially it was the hardest for me, and I like to think I'm pretty progressive learning views 00:33:39:22 - 00:33:43:15 Unknown Embrace empowering the learner. 00:33:43:15 - 00:33:48:16 Unknown I'll say that online again. Embrace empowering the learner 00:33:48:16 - 00:33:52:01 Unknown so who knows how it. So if you would like information shared best, I don't 00:33:52:01 - 00:33:53:15 Unknown know if you knows that so 00:33:53:15 - 00:33:57:04 Unknown too that diversifying then let go features. 00:33:57:06 - 00:34:13:07 Unknown Here's the things I need you to know. I need you 30, 60, 90 to know it. Here's the different ways you can learn it. Let's sit down and myself as the learning leader, person or whatever. Right? The trainer assigned to you. You're your Sherpa through your learning guide. 00:34:13:07 - 00:34:18:04 Unknown As we sit down, let's map it out. What makes the most sense for you? 00:34:18:06 - 00:34:32:05 Unknown And you might be like parents. It's kind of hard. I think that one, I would like to go to a class on. I'm pretty good at that. And this is embracing adult learning theory. This is my whole career and we hire experts and then we train them how to do it. Steve Jobs is like that is so ridiculous. 00:34:32:07 - 00:34:52:23 Unknown And I agree with the man. If you're a marketing expert, I'm not going to train you on like how to market and social. Come take our social media marketing. Sophie Who's done social media marketing for forever? I'm not going to do that. So you might be like, I just want to read your policies on that. I'm good. You know, let me sit you down with the options. 00:34:53:02 - 00:34:54:02 Unknown Let you choose. A 00:34:54:02 - 00:35:17:13 Unknown it's a great, great ending point here and some great action steps that our listeners can start implementing today then, or at least thinking about it, you know? Yeah, well, you just heard from every subject matter expert on educating general flow. But to our listeners we also want to hear from you. So we're curious to know what you're doing to kind of revamp or 00:35:17:13 - 00:35:21:19 Unknown I guess, revamp your training programs for the next generation. 00:35:21:21 - 00:35:38:13 Unknown And so we are giving out one of our new podcast merch swag items. So we're encouraging you to send in your comments on this question for a chance to win that podcast Souvenir you'll want. I have one and I want it. I want one. So can I comment? I'll give you a one. 00:35:38:13 - 00:35:41:07 Unknown But otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today. 00:35:41:07 - 00:36:09:10 Unknown Thank you, Amanda, for all that great information. As always. Don't forget to check out the resources in the show notes below on MRA membership and Resources on this specific episode. So I hope you have a great day and we will see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcasts updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. 00:36:09:11 - 00:36:19:03 Unknown And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: In this episode, we delve into the crucial role of HR in empowering managers to excel in their leadership roles. We explore the various facets of HR support, from department alignment to performance management and employee development, providing listeners with actionable insights and practical steps to enhance their management skills and foster a thriving, engaged workforce. Join us as we unlock the secrets of "How HR Can Help Managers Manage"! Resources: MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - DQ Spencer  Guest LinkedIn Profile - DQ Spencer  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:49:14 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. Thanks for joining us today. I'm excited for our conversation today because you get to hear from DQ spencer. DQ is an mra. HR Business partner located in our golden valley, minnesota location. But i know you come with a lot of experience and enthusiasm, especially for our topic today, how our can help managers manage. 00:00:49:16 - 00:01:06:08 Unknown Sounds like a big topic, but I'm excited to kind of break it down. I know we're going to run through a lot of aspects of HR and kind of give our listeners some good action items and stuff so that they can walk away with. So I know this is your first time on the podcast, so I appreciate you come on and excited. 00:01:06:10 - 00:01:26:20 Unknown Awesome. Me too, hi podcasters. I know that you recently spoke at an event on this topic actually. So before we kind of kick things off, I'm just curious to know why is this really an important topic for our listeners? Yeah, I know you're right. I did speak on the event. It was an awesome event. 00:01:26:20 - 00:01:49:13 Unknown A lot of energy and enthusiasm. This is a very important topic because a lot of organizations are still struggling with aspect of the function of HR organizations talking about people and people assets being the most important aspect of the company. But they have a hard time showing that people are, because they're the only nonrenewable asset that organizations have. 00:01:49:15 - 00:02:15:23 Unknown You can't copy the processes, equipment, technology, terminology, but you can't really copy people. So that's why this one is very important. Yeah, that's a great point as we kind of dive in. Now, can you explain how HR really collaborates with managers to emphasize their functional strengths? And kind of part two of that question is how can they use those strengths with their teams to achieve those organizational goals? 00:02:16:00 - 00:02:37:16 Unknown Yeah, So as you know, I don't know. I don't know. I have a football background. I like to use sport terminologies. That's great. Yeah, Yeah. So, I mean, HR is part of a team, right? HR is one of the few functions that truly supports the whole organization. So they have knowledge throughout each function, but they're not be the subject matter expert on that function. 00:02:37:16 - 00:02:50:12 Unknown Right? So to probably collaborate with them, you have to just include that clue to include them in our communication conversation and work to collaborate and build that functional component. 00:02:50:14 - 00:03:19:12 Unknown Speaking of teamwork, we're in a world where teamwork is crucial. So how can HR departments kind of facilitate collaboration among their employees and help managers foster that culture of cooperation and teamwork and collaboration? Yeah. So that collaboration comes from that communication, right? And so a big part of HR is communication, and it's talking to the employees, talking to the supervisors, the managers, the leads. 00:03:19:14 - 00:03:43:09 Unknown It's really getting to know your people, your biggest assets. HR is a science and that you'll understand that. I mean, as HR, you have that strength, you have that background of understanding people behaviors, thought processes, patterns and processes. But as a as a functional leader, let's say, in accounting or finance, your your, your function, your strengths are going to be with that. 00:03:43:11 - 00:04:03:17 Unknown So you can you can collaborate with them and to partner with them, engage them. You have to communicate, you have to get in there, you have to go to them. You have to understand what the culture is and how you can THRIVE that. Those behaviors in and and processes to to and build and engage their culture properly. Absolutely. 00:04:03:17 - 00:04:26:22 Unknown And I know as an HR business partner, you work with a lot of different companies, a lot of different HR department. So do you have any examples or success stories, I would say, of kind of where the HR departments work with teamwork and kind of fostering that collaboration? Yeah, I don't know. Somewhere along the line, HR has gotten such a bad rep as as the good Lord. 00:04:27:01 - 00:04:48:07 Unknown Yep. And I've been in HR for about 16 years. I have my my Bachelors of Science in HR McMaster Science and during my doctorate business in HR. And through that, I've learned a lot. But I've also learned just as much through my experience. For example, I worked with an organization known, as you mentioned previous to me joining in. 00:04:48:09 - 00:05:21:12 Unknown It was a very strong union environment and that created a kind of trifecta. Three headed obstacle course because it was the union, it was the business, the factory manufacturing, and it was HR and that's how they viewed it as three different portions, three different aspects of business. And that was a very tall task. So I really had to go in there and work on our collaboration first, partnering with the organization, the plant manager, building that relationship, and then partnering with building that relationship. 00:05:21:14 - 00:05:41:10 Unknown And I was kind of that liaison that brought it all together, you know, that that organization lacked trust amongst the three. So that was that was very challenging. But just working with them, showing my commitment, my dedication, my, my, my, my processes and my procedures, showing them that, hey, you know this, we're a team. We want the same goal. 00:05:41:14 - 00:06:11:01 Unknown We set different paths to get there. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of our listeners can kind of resonate with that and relate to that story too, and how their organization like that. So that's good advice. But we also know that compliance is also a critical aspect of HR, too. So do you have any insights on how HR can support managers and ensuring their teams adhere to the regulations and policies that always seem to be changing and updating? 00:06:11:03 - 00:06:36:13 Unknown Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to kind of get off topic, but get back to topic is going to be. So when I first started in the HR, I tried to assimilate to that that stereotype, that prototype of a human resource manager saying no and yes, and you can't do this and you can't do that. And I wasn't truly myself and I truly started being successful when I started, you know, venturing on and being original. 00:06:36:15 - 00:06:54:04 Unknown So I took the mindset of that. I wasn't going to tell leaders and managers, No, you can't do this Right off the bat. I was going to tell them, Hey, I want to get that goal that you want, but here's how we can do this. Here's how we can get it done versus knowing. Yes. So it's compliance. It's the same kind of issues in that aspect versus telling them no or yes. 00:06:54:06 - 00:07:13:06 Unknown I'll give them parameters and say, Hey, I see what you're trying to do. This is the most compliant and best way to get there. So let's get it done together. Yeah. So, so running through kind of the task of all the tasks of HR, another one is to motivate employees, which can be kind of difficult. So how can HR 00:07:13:06 - 00:07:41:05 Unknown Professionals and managers work together to keep their teams engaged and motivated? That's that's a tough one, right? Because, you know, I say this all the time is that we're called individuals for a reason. So we're usually created in the we have individual values and views and perspectives. So to have that motivation, it's going to take really knowing and building a relationship with your organization, your culture and your employees. 00:07:41:07 - 00:08:00:07 Unknown So know your employees. One thing I told a member that I talked to, you know, he asked me, how can I motivate my employees? What's going on? They're not gauging. And I you know, I sat there and I said, Hey, you mind if I watch it for a little bit? Watch for a little bit? No problem. No problem. 00:08:00:09 - 00:08:21:09 Unknown So I sat down and took half the morning and just kind of watch his interactions with the employees. And I literally told him, I said, I saw four separate times where people were trying to talk to you and you didn't talk to people trying to walk. My actually, I didn't even look at and on two separate times we were trying to talk to you and you said, you know, you're busy with tomorrow. 00:08:21:11 - 00:08:42:10 Unknown I said, Engagement goes both ways, motivation goes both ways. You have to go and engage with them. Right. As a position of authority. Naturally. I think the way people are going to be timid to engage with you so that you have to said that you're setting a standard. Like I said, the engagement and motivation goes both ways. Show them that you're willing to do what you're asking them to do. 00:08:42:12 - 00:09:02:17 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's a good point. I know a lot of companies right now just have to kind of reevaluate what they're doing. Like you kind of sat in as a fly on the wall and you were able to see it. The HR department may not be able to see it because they're in it. So sometimes you kind of need an outsider almost to come in and see that. 00:09:02:17 - 00:09:32:14 Unknown ALL Yeah. So when it comes to achieving results, alignment with an organization is key, obviously. So how can HR create that alignment between different teams and departments? Yeah, so alignment comes out. You know, I talked about inclusion, communication, conversation alignment comes with understanding the goal, right? And creating processes and procedures that align with that, that THRIVE toward that goal. 00:09:32:16 - 00:09:55:11 Unknown A lot of companies have processes just because they happen. They said, we always have this or this is what we were always. But your goal changed, the business changed. You know, the world of business is very dynamic. It's always changing for you to keep the same processes. It might not make sense to achieve that goal. So I always tell the people, you know, look at what you're trying to achieve, work backwards and this is what we want it. 00:09:55:14 - 00:10:15:18 Unknown This is what we want to achieve. So let's do this. This, this is to get there versus, well, let's do this and go kind of around it, you know, align toward that goal, direct your process, your behavior and your diet and your actions toward achieving that ultimate goal. And just what you said right there, the world of business is very dynamic. 00:10:15:18 - 00:10:47:18 Unknown So I guess that kind of brings us to our next point of how can our assist managers in adapting their strategies and tactics to meet new challenges when business is always changing? Yeah, it's just constant reassessment, right? So like I said, I've been organizations all different functions and industries, and the thing I hear the most is this is how we've always done it or this is what they told us to do versus, you know, having that critical thinking skills, thinking about, hey, this is what they told us to do. 00:10:47:18 - 00:11:03:20 Unknown And so I was done it. But it doesn't kind of make sense. We're trying to do so we're going back to think about this is what we're trying to we're trying to achieve organic business. We're trying to grow. We're trying to we're trying to set customers and employee satisfaction. So what can we do to get better? Understanding your culture. 00:11:04:01 - 00:11:26:13 Unknown Culture is big, so I don't know if you know that I'm a teacher as well. Professor There's that. There's perio, pedagogy and anthropology. The type of learning that adults when when they learn, they want to learn by seeing what you do and looking what you do versus when you're a kid, you do this because you're told to do because you have to go through this. 00:11:26:13 - 00:11:43:23 Unknown You have to work through school, you have to go to high school as adults. They're there because they only want to be there. So let's make it a department that they want to be there right there. It's going to be changing. Not everyone's going to be the same, just like business is going to be evolving. It's going to be dynamic. 00:11:43:23 - 00:12:12:02 Unknown It's going to be contemporary. Some things may stay traditional, but it's going to move. You have to move with flexibility. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I should have mentioned that you were a teacher in the beginning too. I got so many different perspectives now from, well, we've kind of mentioned this throughout the whole podcast, but it seems like employee engagement is often one of the biggest concerns for managers. 00:12:12:04 - 00:12:44:19 Unknown So and you've touched on this briefly, but how can it really assist in measuring and improving employee engagement then to enhance team performance in an organization? Yeah, and that's that's a tough question, right? Because everyone is going to be different. But the thing it can say is, you know, just like business and sales engagement is building relationships, then understanding where you're talking to, what you're talking about, understanding the optimal goal and just building everybody should go toward it. 00:12:44:19 - 00:13:09:14 Unknown And earlier, making that effort to engage with their employees, making that effort to be as transparent. That's transparent as possible. And so you can't be completely transparent all the time, but be as open as possible because more people understand them more than want to THRIVE that goal and helping them get those fingerprints and open and get that engagement and touchpoints within that plan. 00:13:09:16 - 00:13:28:24 Unknown And that also helps, you know, they have a little skin in the game that will help them engage and help them. So, you know, I'm a part of this, right? But it starts and starts with the culture. And how is your culture is an engaging culture. Is it an open door culture? Is it, hey, I know we're business here, but how is your day and how are you doing? 00:13:29:01 - 00:13:45:18 Unknown Look at the example I gave previously. When a manager, you know, shoot people off or was too busy to talk to people or, you know, he walked from his office right to where he needs to go at to engage. You have to show them this is what engagement looks like. You have to show that, hey, I'm motivated to do my job. 00:13:45:18 - 00:14:13:12 Unknown You have to think, what do you think about this? Talk to them and increase that communication, increase that inclusion and then kind of full support. HR Is a big portion of that because a lot of people really don't have that perspective or understanding or mindset. And as a human resource manager, we understand that people are our business and people should be everyone's business because that's what business is created on. 00:14:13:14 - 00:14:40:05 Unknown Even even technical businesses, even process oriented businesses. They're all about people, right? We understand our people. The more we can utilize to take advantage of how great that asset can be and how much we can get to them, how much they can get does Yeah, absolutely. I love that you emphasized the importance of culture and having a good culture because that honestly THRIVEs your organization. 00:14:40:05 - 00:15:07:23 Unknown And you can tell on day one and even probably both before you work at the organization what their culture is because she's a very prominent thing in an organization. So it's like, you know, example that I give, which I've seen many times, is when you're interviewing people, show their best in the best of times and say, Hey, we're going over their culture where, you know, we want to hear everything you're saying. 00:15:08:00 - 00:15:40:02 Unknown But when you start, it's absolutely And I walk down the hall, every door was closed, closed door meetings, Everything feels like it's secretive. It feels like you're very being excluded. And that's absolute culture. So part of my research for my my doctorate was how to decrease turnover. The intention was really, truly millennials because I do my research on generation, but in how to decrease turnover intentionally with the number one decrease, there was the culture right? 00:15:40:04 - 00:15:56:16 Unknown Are you saying you do or are you being transparent? Are you including is are you hiring and retaining people? You need to cultivate that culture and that's a big thing is if you don't have a culture where you if you don't have what you want now, that's not a big deal. A lot of lot religion are in there. 00:15:56:20 - 00:16:18:03 Unknown They don't have what they want to go. They want to achieve. So but how are you going to get that right? What's your plan and how are you communicate and really in that plan, to your people, to your to your managers, and how are they acting on that? Well, you know, it's one thing to say it, but it's another thing to actually let them go. 00:16:18:03 - 00:16:43:00 Unknown I know you've given a ton of best practices and advice and tips throughout this whole podcast, but do you have any best practices for HR Professionals to really identify and leverage the functional strengths with within their organization to THRIVE that success that everybody wants? Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of times i will say this is a very known saying, but get comfortable with being accountable. 00:16:43:04 - 00:17:15:01 Unknown Right? So a lot of times when you talk the functions this is my first experience with my career when I taught the different functions and I wasn't prepared to talk to them about their business or their function. And so that decreased their trust and decrease their trust in me. So the more time to understand it and functions, I can have a direct conversation with about what their strengths were and and they can see that I'm taking that action to really understand what their strengths are and what their function is and what their goal is. 00:17:15:01 - 00:17:43:14 Unknown And the more I understood how they act, how they behave, what their processes were, the more I could create strategy to more insert myself into their function and help them grow. And it helped me grow so much. Understand business financially, understand business through the processes of manufacturing, understand business details and marketing. But I just, you know, like I said, part of the reason why I got my BBA was because I had a master's in science, which is great. 00:17:43:17 - 00:18:11:11 Unknown But I want to understand business as a whole more holistically. And that helped me grow so much, helped me grow immensely understanding different functioning business. And that's what I would give to each age and professional in any, anyone, any function. I try to learn business. Don't try to, you know, obviously, you know, you do. You're your expert at what you do, but be an expert at understanding the business and that will help you grow with your organization. 00:18:11:11 - 00:18:30:01 Unknown There's so much that is great advice. That's something that I'm trying to do too, is just even shadowing an apartment for a day to see what their day in the life is. And that, like you said, will help you understand the business as a whole and will help you do your job better, too, on the long run. Yeah. 00:18:30:01 - 00:18:48:20 Unknown Yeah. And with that is I know it sounds boring, but you know, what do you what's, what's going on in that meeting. I said in that meeting where. Hey, you mind if I, you know, tag along with you? Like I said, Do you mind if I show you? Do you mind if I hang out and kind of the following a little bit and understand what you're going through so I can better help you, better assist you and better support you. 00:18:49:01 - 00:19:09:00 Unknown And that's what it's about. You know, selfishly, I was trying to grow the business, not trying to grow myself, so I was trying to be a better project, better employee and a better person and more advanced to business. Absolutely. Well, as we wrap up your last question, can you share any key takeaways for our listeners on how HR 00:19:09:00 - 00:19:38:00 Unknown Can really be that strategic partner in helping managers manage effectively and achieve the optimal results in their organizations. Bring it full circle here. We'll circle sort of our circle like i would say, kind of like I said, understand the business more. You understand that business and that function and that environment, the more alignment you can create, right? So again, help them understand processes that they don't know the process of, hey, this is what we're doing. 00:19:38:02 - 00:20:08:20 Unknown Is that process, that HR Role. When i don't understand it, then they probably won't rule it out to the best of their ability. They probably won't engage in it to the best of your abilities. So help them understand it, right? Understand their business. They can understand your business. Say that that alignment, that inclusion, you know, still in their meetings, our conversation with them, engage with them, go out of your way, you know, go beyond a little bit to make them feel, you know, that they trust you, that the understanding that they believe in you. 00:20:08:22 - 00:20:30:23 Unknown Because the more trust, more understanding, the more inclusion you have, more transparency, you'll get more engaging, you'll get, the better you be able to help them and support them. And the more the business will be able to grow and that's what it's about, is creating that organic growth and that internal growth as well as that external world. So you can be successful in the business, can be successful decades. 00:20:31:00 - 00:20:54:01 Unknown This was great. I want to thank you for being on the podcast today and sharing all that great content and all the advice on how HR Can really help managers manage. So to our listeners, i would just encourage you if you liked our chat and topic today, comment something new that you learned today or something that you're going to start implementing or anything else that you'd like to add on to the conversation. 00:20:54:01 - 00:21:18:04 Unknown We want to know your thoughts, what you're thinking. If you have any new ideas on this topic. And don't forget to share out this episode, of course, and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show notes below. We've also included resources on this topic and DQ's contact info and LinkedIn profile if you want to connect with him. 00:21:18:06 - 00:21:39:18 Unknown Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and we will see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. 00:21:39:18 - 00:21:44:11 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: Join us as we explore the transformative power of authenticity and immediate action in the realm of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) with leader, speaker, and author, Jess Pettitt. In this thought-provoking episode, we delve into the “Good Enough Now” philosophy, its impact on personal growth, and its potential to create positive change in companies, relationships, and communities. Resources: MRA's DEI Toolkit  Jess's Website   Jess's Book - Good Enough Now  If you are interested in a complimentary copy of Jess Pettitt's eBook, Good Enough Now, please email laura.kielbasa@mranet.org to get your code and details on how to download the book for free. There are a limited number of codes so don't delay! MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Meet the Guest - Jess Pettitt  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Jess Pettitt  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:51:05 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE Thank you for joining us today. I am so excited for our conversation today because you get to hear from a very talented and experienced individual. Jess Pettit suggests a top facilitator and educator in the diversity and inclusion space. She spent the last 20 years teaching, motivating and entertaining more than half a million people just in North America alone. 00:00:51:07 - 00:01:17:16 Unknown And speaking of that, Jess is actually one of our keynote speakers at MRA's 2023 DEI conference this year. So, Jess, I know your main goal is to kind of start that conversation while also ensuring that people feel at ease and really feel safe to learn and ask these questions. And I. So for our episode today specifically, we're kind of going to delve into the world of good enough now. 00:01:17:16 - 00:01:42:10 Unknown And that philosophy and really its impact on personal growth, its potential to create positive change in companies, relationships and communities. So before we dive into that topic, I'm really kind of curious to know just what got you started on your DEI journey. Well, first off, thank you for having me and what I get asked quite often like what got you started? 00:01:42:10 - 00:02:05:17 Unknown And there's kind of two answers at the same time. The quickie answers are, number one. I was lucky enough to grow up in Texas with parents that were very curious. So any time I would ask a question, I was sent to the library to go find out all the different kinds of answers and then did presentations to my family on the fireplace about whatever it was. 00:02:05:19 - 00:02:31:09 Unknown So I think most of the questions I asked seemed to be kind of around what I think collectively we would refer to as the underdog or hypocrisy or things that just didn't make sense. And I wasn't raised in an environment where like, Nope, this is it. Don't ask any more questions. So I think that is a significant part of my curiosity. 00:02:31:11 - 00:02:55:13 Unknown I think the other part is, is that when I had real jobs, I often was advocating. I worked, as I called an administrator. My first masters is in higher education Administration with an emphasis in crisis management. So I worked on college campuses, advocate ing for underrepresented students, and how the college or the university could better serve its surrounding community. 00:02:55:15 - 00:03:22:18 Unknown And in doing that would often point out what the university was doing to impact the community in a negative way or how they were under serving students. So I would get fired, go to another one, get another job, get fired so I kept getting fired. And eventually I know it's in our conference, but high HR, I spent a lot of time with you, but mostly I got fired because I was advocating for something that the university didn't want to do differently. 00:03:22:20 - 00:03:51:19 Unknown Spoiler alert. I would say that in my younger years, I didn't understand managing up and maybe would use like a different font in how I advocated, but I would do it all over again because I have just always attempted to advocate for those that didn't have a voice at the table. So here we are. Yeah, I love that and I love that you stayed curious and that's kind of helped you with your DD journey, and that's a big difference. 00:03:51:21 - 00:04:14:23 Unknown So just we mentioned that you're also the closing keynote speaker at our DEI conference this year, and your session is titled Good Enough Now. So can you kind of explain what is good enough now? Can you kind of share your thoughts on waiting to change versus taking that immediate action to kind of be the best version of ourselves? 00:04:15:00 - 00:04:43:13 Unknown Absolutely. I think that I should probably full disclosure, I'm a Virgo and a really anal retentive person, which means that I have perfectionist tendencies. Definitely have experienced some imposter syndrome in my life. And as I was listening to my audiences, to be frank, I was kind of burning out on talking about vocabulary and approaching diversity and kind of this way, old way, that I used to do it. 00:04:43:15 - 00:05:13:08 Unknown And I was burning out because I wasn't noticing a lot of progress. And then being a perfectionist, if you can't solve this problem, then it's very un motivating. And in my kind of sinking burnout stage, I started listening to my audiences in a different way and I kept finding them coming up with a reason or an excuse to not engage in a conversation or to not truly go and start something or do something. 00:05:13:08 - 00:05:36:19 Unknown Or they wanted to. There was a want there, but they they couldn't like just go because they didn't feel adequately prepared. They were waiting for all the correct variables to be in place. And I realized that kind of the intersection of what I would call my burnout because of perfectionism, there was this You need to do it anyway. 00:05:36:21 - 00:06:06:12 Unknown And if we're waiting to solve this problem, wouldn't you think somebody amazing ahead of us would have already solved it? And the I think it's an excuse is to wait until you have it perfect, because we feel entitled to the success or feel entitled to winning. So when I kind of noticed this as my own cure to keep me in this work, I realized in my kind of mantra is, do the best you can with what you've got. 00:06:06:14 - 00:06:36:16 Unknown Some of the time, frankly, because it's better than nothing. Never. And obviously, this does not apply to, like, surgery or things where accuracy is really important. So talking about advocating for someone trying can be frankly, trying. It can be exhausting. But when you don't know how to start trying, what you end up doing is you start trying to try and ultimately trying to try is good enough place to start, right? 00:06:36:18 - 00:06:59:14 Unknown I feel like it's all about kind of just taking that first step. And I know a lot of perfectionists out there who probably appreciate this, this kind of concept, but how do you personally relate to the concept of feeling that imbalance between who you are and kind of like what you mentioned, who you think you should be, where you think you should be in the context of DIY? 00:06:59:22 - 00:07:20:15 Unknown I think what's at the root of diversity, equity and inclusion is either kind of those of you not watching the video have two hands up, right? So one of them is recognizing all of the pain and suffering that you have experienced in your life, has made you who and how you are in the world. And that is a really important thing to acknowledge. 00:07:20:17 - 00:07:47:17 Unknown There are also a lot of privileges that have made you who and how you are. And most of us kind of enter this advocacy or DIY work because of our resilience or our survival, which includes like code switching at work, doing things that you need to do to hide certain parts of you or cover certain lived experiences or identities, you have to navigate the workplace. 00:07:47:19 - 00:08:27:01 Unknown I totally get that. I understand from my subordinated or marginalized identities, the organization that I've done to stay alive or to thrive is very personal to me. I totally get that. However, if we were to enter from our privileged identities, there's no risk. It's not about thriving. It's about just trying to do the right thing. So I try to really inspire her, myself and others to enter these conversations from their dominant or privileged identities, because that's the place where we have all the tools and the resources to actually do something, even if we can't do it perfectly. 00:08:27:03 - 00:08:50:19 Unknown And we might not actually notice when we're doing the right thing because it's the right thing in the right way, regardless of how our life has taught us how to be. I try to role model that I tried in my book. I try to like create a pathway for people to gain their own self-awareness of what it is they could be doing and encourage people to try to do just that. 00:08:50:21 - 00:09:39:05 Unknown Absolutely. Or I feel like sometimes taking these steps may kind of produce some challenges. So what are some kind of common challenges that you've seen people face when striving for better relationships, bettering themselves, fulfillment, stronger teamwork in the realm of DEI? I mean, I think the answer is in good enough, people don't feel good enough, and also at times have experienced what it does feel like to be good enough and that they're actually the same feeling, right, is like, I'm kind of sucks, but I guess I can give this a whirl of even if it's something outside of a DEI context, you're driving around and you get a flat tire. 00:09:39:07 - 00:09:58:24 Unknown I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a flat tire handler expert. Right. So then there's this kind of incompetence moment where you're like, I don't wait, what do I do? And then, like, every tick tock you've ever seen comes, like, flashing back to you, and all of a sudden you're, like, lug nuts. That's a word I haven't used in forever. 00:09:59:13 - 00:10:19:07 Unknown lug nuts. I need one of them sticky things to get the lug nuts off while you're fumbling around in the trunk of your car looking for the. Is it a crowbar? Is it a jack? I don't know. The key things that you do, the lug nut twisty bit This, like a little kernel of information, comes where you're like, Do it in a star. 00:10:19:09 - 00:10:43:02 Unknown Where did that come from? I don't know, But you undo it in a start. Now, all of a sudden, you know, this. That methodology, you're. It's okay. It's good enough information at the time because you're in a pickle. You got a flat tire. You got to figure it out. When we start interacting with other people, even when we call it DIY work, most of us think we're only doing DEI work at work. 00:10:43:04 - 00:11:10:07 Unknown So then we clock out of work and we're at a grocery store. We're not employing those same skills. And what I'm here to talk about is not new skill development, but it's really recognizing when you choose not to use them, right? I mean, you do choose to use them because it's good enough to try. The other thing I would say is this is a little bit more of a longer answer, but often when we think of challenges, we think of challenges outside of ourself. 00:11:10:09 - 00:11:34:17 Unknown And my challenge to everyone is to think of the challenges inside yourself. And when you are most challenged or most confronted, how are you showing up and how do you expect other people to show up? And you can actually adjust how you show up instead of waiting for other people to show up differently? So this is the I'll talk about this in the keynote. 00:11:34:17 - 00:11:57:15 Unknown This is the head heart action model. And once you can figure out kind of where you lean particular lean when you're challenged or feeling confronted or trying to decide to use the skills you currently have or to like take them off ramp, it'll be really helpful for you to know that I believe our lives have taught us who and how to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. 00:11:57:20 - 00:12:32:05 Unknown We just we're responsible for this kind of like net zero of how we begin a conversation. So we've got a lot of self-reflection to do after this podcast. It seems like hopefully. Well, you've kind of embraced and highlighted just kind of being your authentic self and how contributing that authenticity really kind of helps the effort. So in your experience, how does the authentic self contribute to these efforts and initiatives? 00:12:32:07 - 00:12:57:17 Unknown It's your base level foundation. I think everyone in this maybe this goes back to even perfectionism, but I think everyone knows how they are supposed to ought to be right. Like you're supposed to show up this particular way, but you're you're responsible for knowing how you're actually showing up and then citing taking ownership of the gap between the two. 00:12:57:19 - 00:13:26:24 Unknown And do you want to be showing up in a different way or do you not want to? Like we often talk about and I call this an Instagram fight, but of giving grace to other people. And we don't necessarily know what that means, but we also don't even give grace to our self. And so but I think giving grace means is that person, whoever you're thinking of that's annoying their life taught them that that's the way to show up. 00:13:27:01 - 00:13:49:11 Unknown Similarly, your life taught you that this is the way to show up. Neither one guarantees that you're accurate or correct, but you did learn this in your life. And do you want to keep that learning or do you need to upgrade? That's great. So we've talked a lot of it, just a lot about the good enough now philosophy. 00:13:49:14 - 00:14:17:17 Unknown But do you have any examples or just any real life stories on how individuals or organizations have applied this philosophy to enhance their DEI initiatives or existing strategy? A little bit. I think that I'm working on a new book right now, and I have a case study sampling that y'all are welcome to download. Look, give me feedback, give me your ideas, etc.. 00:14:17:19 - 00:14:39:16 Unknown But I think what's interesting is, is there's not a lot of room for failure. And if there is failure, we want to fix it as quickly as possible. But I think failure is a way of looking at a step in the right direction that didn't quite make it right. And so my new book is called Almost or It's Almost finished. 00:14:39:18 - 00:15:06:01 Unknown But it takes the Good Enough Now principles and applies it to an organization instead of your own individual sense of life or decision making. But on an organizational level, I track 56 different case studies of my own clients where something was attempted and it didn't quite work. And my premise is that it didn't quite work because it didn't use the full model. 00:15:06:01 - 00:15:32:06 Unknown It only kind of enters in one place. The tagline is when the answers need to ask more questions and there's a lot of quote unquote best practices within DEI that are not necessarily successful, but it's kind of what everybody does. And so what else could we do to flush out one of these initiatives or programing ideas or response ideas or diversity statements or whatever? 00:15:32:08 - 00:15:54:13 Unknown Can we flush it out in a way that's paying attention in this three sided model so that it's set up for success instead of just being a reactionary response? And I find that to be probably the most debilitating thing that I work with, with organizations when I do consulting work is back in 1984, they tried something and it didn't work. 00:15:54:15 - 00:16:26:06 Unknown And so then we're done. We just don't. We already did it. Or maybe they did something and it didn't work that one time. But there's still pain and suffering happening. And if we're talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, and we keep adding more letters, now we're adding belonging. The reason why we have to add more letters is it's not working because we haven't actually dismantled the systems inside of our workplaces to actually include everyone who is there, everyone we serve along our entire value chain. 00:16:26:08 - 00:16:46:14 Unknown And in order for those people to really weigh in to part of the office culture, they have to buy in. And in order to buy in, they have to feel like they belong and are valued. And that's the real work we need to be doing. Well, I'm looking forward to that book almost. And that'll be interesting to read those case studies, too. 00:16:46:14 - 00:17:12:10 Unknown And we've included dresses, a number where you can text, ask any questions, give her feedback, and also her contact information. So do you want to get in touch with her about that book? We've got the resources for you. But kind of talking about this whole belonging, how does self-acceptance play into the whole journey of being the best version of oneself in the context of DEI? 00:17:12:12 - 00:17:39:01 Unknown It's a really tricky question, but it mostly resides in internal responsibility. And there is nobody who isn't a hot mess, right? And often when we engage in these conversations, we want to point fingers at somebody else who is a bigger hot mess than somebody else. But this is a weird suspension of gravity, not gravity. Don't suspend gravity. Suspension of grammar. 00:17:39:01 - 00:18:17:06 Unknown What's so close? It's so close. But if, like, I'm pointing my finger at you because I think you are a mess, I'm somebody else's mess. Right. Somebody looks at me and is like, I don't know what is wrong with her, but if she'd clean up her act, then it would be much better. So if I actually were to do that and to become more self-aware, to be responsible for myself and quote unquote, clean up my act, whatever that means, I'm role modeling for other people how to do it, and forcing other people to realize that I've become more responsible for my behavior, not just when I'm at work, but when I am in a 00:18:17:06 - 00:18:38:08 Unknown car wreck or at the grocery store or talking to a stranger at some festival. I'm still responsible for everything I do, everything I say, and who and how I am when I show up. Yeah, that's a good point that these these ideas and these philosophies, they don't only apply when you're at work, they should apply all the time. 00:18:38:10 - 00:19:01:18 Unknown But so I think a lot of people are probably wondering, how can I improve immediately? And I know we always talk about the DEI journey, that it takes steps and sometimes it takes a lot of time in practice. But do you have any ideas on what can individuals take away right now that they can start making those positive changes kind of immediately in the DEI space? 00:19:01:20 - 00:19:28:16 Unknown Sure. So two answers again. So the first one is stop looking for the finish line. So like a lot of us think that once we get a certificate or enough different friends or have updated our vocabulary enough, we are then done. That's not how this works, right? This is a forever and always thing. So the the progress, is it becoming more natural and being able to think about what are your responses right. 00:19:28:16 - 00:19:51:22 Unknown Like there's a gap between your knee jerk reaction or response and the actual response. And that moment in between is where responsibility and reflection come in. So that's when you're actually working. It is when you take time for that little second response instead of just your knee jerk reaction that's actually making progress, but it doesn't get you somewhere. 00:19:52:02 - 00:20:16:17 Unknown It helps you decide where you're going to get. So that's the first thing I would say. The other thing I would say is one of the links that you have is to a survey. And the survey will help you identify how you right now are showing up across difference or in conflict. And it's either going to be very detail oriented, very idea oriented, or I don't have time for any of that business. 00:20:16:17 - 00:20:38:18 Unknown I just want to do something. And when you figure out how it is, you're showing up and you get a little bit more used to or comfortable with your own showing up habits, then it's a lot easier for you to adjust how you're showing up based on how other people showing up habits are happening. Those are the two immediate things let go of winning or finishing. 00:20:38:20 - 00:21:09:14 Unknown And how are you right now? Because that's your responsibility kind of part two of this question. And I would just add, if you have anything to add on this. Any strategies or just basic practices that our listeners can adopt to align their personal growth with their DEI goals and values? The hardest one, and I'll talk very specifically about this in my keynote as well, but the hardest one is what I would call the 100% responsibility. 00:21:09:16 - 00:21:32:22 Unknown I do not recommend trying to do this 100% of the time because it is exhausting. But notice when you're not doing it and when it's easier to do it. And what I mean is, is that before you say something, email, text, whatever, can you prepare yourself to be 100% responsible for whatever it is that's about to occur? Once you say text, send the thing. 00:21:32:24 - 00:21:55:09 Unknown And a lot of people will say like, I'm only 50% responsible. But frankly, that's on marriage therapist type job security. And I'm going to ask you to take some time to be 100% responsible so that no matter what it is that comes back at you as anything, you're way less defensive about it because you had made a solid 100% responsible choice before doing something. 00:21:55:11 - 00:22:19:13 Unknown Just try that every once in a while. Or like I like to say, do the best you can with what you've got. Some of the time it will be a life changing way of blending what you think is a diversity equity inclusion kind of mindset with your authentic self in every interaction you have with other people. That's a great mentality to have. 00:22:19:14 - 00:22:46:12 Unknown I'm definitely going to try that out after this. Well, as we kind of wrap up here today, Jess, I know you've given a lot of great advice and actionable steps, but do you have any last kind of might drop moments on how leaders and listeners today can just take that take that step to create a more inclusive and equitable environment based on all the principles that you kind of listed out for us today. 00:22:46:14 - 00:23:10:04 Unknown Honestly, the hardest thing for people to actually do, if I'm having a mic drop moment, is I double dog dare you to stay in touch. You would think that that'd be pretty easy. Like, she's accessible. I can text or any time I can, you know, connect with her on LinkedIn or whatever. But people don't do it because it's hard to hang in your own space. 00:23:10:06 - 00:23:38:07 Unknown And what I would might drop a moment is who else is going to hang in your space if it's not you? So we have to stop looking at this as just something external to us and step into ourselves because no one else can do that. To do the best we can with what we've got. Some of the time, I mean, if you want to learn from other people's failures, notice external to you, read my studies, give me some feedback, see what your thoughts are. 00:23:38:13 - 00:24:03:10 Unknown If you want to stay in touch, feel free to connect on LinkedIn or text me the numbers. 2026704262. But the truth is you won't. Maybe you'll connect with me on LinkedIn, but then that's it. And we don't hang in our own space. And if you happen to notice that you are in your own space, do the survey again. 00:24:03:12 - 00:24:23:14 Unknown Go do the survey again and find out how in that moment, how are you showing up? Is there a pattern of who and how you are? And then what is that like for other people witnessing or interacting with you? You can take responsibility for that. And I'm here to help you along the way. So I double dog dare you stay in touch. 00:24:23:16 - 00:24:48:05 Unknown Do my job. Right. Well, Jess, I want to thank you so much for being on the podcast today. And thank you for sharing all that great content. I can definitely walk away with a lot of great, impactful, actionable steps into our listeners. If you liked our chat and topic today, I would just urge you to comment something new you learned today or anything that you'd like to add on to our conversation. 00:24:48:07 - 00:25:09:03 Unknown Don't forget to share out this episode. Consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show notes, all including resources about us in our topic today. Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and thanks again, Jess. We will see you all next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. 00:25:09:04 - 00:25:27:11 Unknown Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes THRIVE so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description:

Description: Unlock the art of strategic business communication in our latest episode, 'Inbox Intelligence.' Dive into the world of email correspondence and discover when and why it's your most powerful tool. Explore effective practices, enhance your professional connections, and master the finesse of choosing email for impactful business interactions. If you're looking to harness the potential of email for impactful interactions, this episode of 'Inbox Intelligence' is a must-listen. Resources: Effectively Using Email in the Workplace Video  Business Email - Write it Right Course  Business Writing for Impact: How to Write So People Will Read Course Overcoming Inbox Overwhelm: Streamline Your Processes Course  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Andy Marris  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Andy Marris  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR. MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:48:22 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to episode number 59 of 30 minute Thrive. Today we're going to dive into the world of email, specifically inbox intelligence and discover when and why it's your most powerful tool. So today I'm joined with expert Andy Marris, MRA learning and development instructor, as he runs through his tips and tricks on using email in our professional lives. 00:00:48:24 - 00:01:14:14 Unknown So thanks for being here today to be here with you. Okay, so let's start out with the positives. Andy, what are the key advantages of using email as a form of business communication and in today's digital landscape? Well, email is really fast. You can reach a mass audience very quickly and it's documented forever. It's a great follow up tool at a conversation or a meeting so that we talked about this before, right? 00:01:14:15 - 00:01:38:15 Unknown People know what to do when. But it's also a great way to inform people of things that are easy to understand. Right? If it's confusing, though, I wouldn't put it in email. And then, of course, it's a great documentation tool. So now let's flip that question. What are the biggest challenges of email? It's really fast. You can reach a mass audience really quickly and it's documented forever. 00:01:38:16 - 00:01:57:03 Unknown Literally, the pros are also the cons because once you hit send, yeah, that's gone. But anything that's real complex or difficult to understand, that's just going to make it a difficult concept and then they're going to not get it. You can't watch somebody react. You can't read their body language and if they get it or not, you can read that in someone's face when we're looking at them. 00:01:57:03 - 00:02:20:24 Unknown You can't get that out of an email. And it is a big one when you're emotional. Right. Be very careful to take a break, get yourself collected and cool, because if you type in your emotional, it's going to come way worse on the other end than even you intend. Sometimes you got to, you know, go take a walk, yell at the trees, whatever you got to do, take a deep breath. 00:02:21:01 - 00:02:40:08 Unknown But you want to make sure you're careful with those emotional emails because it comes off the way worse than you than you originally intended. And then anything that's not for public consumption or confidential, as we said, email is never gone. Yes. Great point. In addition to that, tone is really difficult to read. You know what? What a cliché. 00:02:40:08 - 00:02:55:18 Unknown I'm using my mother in law as an example, but when she says I'm fine, she's fine. When she says I'm fine, I don't know what I'm going to find out later, but it's going to be a while. Yes. Before she reveals that, Right. Well, you can hear that in someone's tone. You can't read it very well in an email. 00:02:55:20 - 00:03:26:12 Unknown And so that's also a problem. And then even the mechanics. I had a woman I worked with years ago who had a she was really into grammar to be in the grammar police, and she had a really funny sign on her desk that said, I'm silently judging your grammar in my head, and these make me chuckle. But even something as silly as, you know, using a colon instead of a semicolon or a comma after your greeting, that's supposed to be the business way to do it. 00:03:26:12 - 00:03:45:22 Unknown I couldn't care less. I'm not the grammar police. But you know, something that like that simple could set your email sideways. And then also the design really matters. We've probably all seen somebody as a very stylized background, and because of it, it's really hard to read. Sometimes you please a whole block of text and it just, yeah, your eye doesn't know where to stop. 00:03:45:24 - 00:04:05:14 Unknown And so there's lots of things that can go wrong with it, even though it's a wonderful tool and use. Well, yes, I'm like picturing now the worst emails I've ever gotten or written, but I feel like I all I'm like an emoji person. So in my emails I will always add an emoji to help with tone so that they know like, Hey, I'm not meaning this in a bad way. 00:04:05:14 - 00:04:29:24 Unknown And that's good. Emoticons are invented for then. Is it a smart alec smiley face or a happy smiley face? And how professional is that? Right? So you've got to know your audience when you're sending that out. Yeah, but that is the purpose, right? To add tone to text. And that's, that's not soft serve. Sophie So what examples do you have on when tone was maybe misinterpreted with email? 00:04:30:01 - 00:04:49:03 Unknown I've got a funny one from several years ago. I had a participant in one of my classes and we were talking about how difficult tone is to read. And I was in in Chicago, and I remember as we're discussing that she kind of starts laughing and she says, Well, I've got kind of an embarrassing one that just happened to me. 00:04:49:03 - 00:05:08:19 Unknown And I said, Well, you comfortable sharing? And she said, Sure. And she said, And folks, this is not necessarily the people at your company. But she said, my my I.T. guy is kind of the stereotype on Saturday Night Live or makes me feel bad for doing his job because over in like, click, click, click. It really? Yeah. Did you even plug it in that guy? 00:05:08:19 - 00:05:27:20 Unknown Right. So she's like you. It's alter the computer kind of thing. That was her relationship with him. And so there was a vulnerability. There was a virus going around, and he wanted to save some time. And this was many years ago. And I remember when I was in the IT industry years ago, these are called the sneaker netting because the I.T. 00:05:27:20 - 00:05:41:10 Unknown Staff would put their sneakers on and run from computer to computer. This is before I had all these things behind the wall. They could just fix it. Yeah, well, he sends out an email because he's going to try and get to each computer, but it's going to take them a while to get to everybody. So he sends out an email. 00:05:41:10 - 00:05:57:04 Unknown So if they can install this patch to keep them from getting the virus, all the better if they can beat him to it. Right. So he sends out this this email and I'll quote unquote read it to you. It says, hello. There's been a huge virus going around the country. You want to we want to make sure we don't get it. 00:05:57:06 - 00:06:12:01 Unknown Here are the steps to install the attachment. He did Remember to attach it, by the way. Yeah, that's always a new right here are the steps. And then in bullet points, which I love, right? I want it to be one pane of glass. Bullet point. Bullet point. Bullet point. Bullet point. All of the directions on how to do it. 00:06:12:03 - 00:06:33:08 Unknown Thank you, Jim. It said please. It said thank you. Should they sprinkle in a little tone? She was so angry after reading that she went running to H.R.. Look what I have to put up with from this jerk. She had it in her hand as she printed it out. Any. Any idea why? It's pretty funny when she realized what had happened. 00:06:33:14 - 00:06:55:15 Unknown I don't know why, Because, you know, the human resources, the person's looking at the thing and go, What's wrong with it? It's very technical. There's nothing emotional about it. And she read it and she read it. I'll give you a hint. It was just one word. It was at the very beginning. Do you remember how that email started? 00:06:55:17 - 00:07:16:03 Unknown Hello? Yeah, hello. It's a greeting. Right? So a feeling. Hello. How are you? What's wrong with that? Well, can you think of any other interpretations of Hello? Maybe you've seen the movie Back to the Future. I guess. Hello, McFly. Buddy Holly. She read the entire email as if he was knocking on her head like she was an idiot. 00:07:16:03 - 00:07:35:16 Unknown Oh, wow. And it wasn't based on one word. Based on one word. We read tone into our messaging, and that's what we're up against. I think it's scary. I also think it's a very funny story that is fun. But wow, right? This is what we're up against. And that's why your idea about the emoticons or any of the emojis. 00:07:35:16 - 00:07:54:24 Unknown Yeah, that's why we use them. Maybe he needed to add a smiley face. Yeah, I don't know. And then she might have thought as a smart aleck smiley face. So who knows where that would have gone, but. Well, that's what we're up against. So good story. So are there certain situations then we're using email might hinder rather than enhance business communication? 00:07:55:01 - 00:08:11:15 Unknown Yeah. If anything has to be confidential, don't put it in an email. There is no such thing as a confidential email. Which is funny because there's even a little button you can push that says confidential. It's not defensible in court at all, and anyone in the world who has an email address can have that sent to them. Exactly. 00:08:11:21 - 00:08:33:22 Unknown We've seen so many examples over the years of people getting in trouble because of email be in ink. It's found even if you you know, there's been stories of people using software like bleach bit to get rid of emails and sure that got it off your server and in your computer, but it's still on the server or the network or the computer, the people you sent it to or the people you sent it to, who sent it to somebody else. 00:08:33:24 - 00:08:54:09 Unknown And so it really has no no end in mind digging the one forever as long as somebody has an email address. So that is kind of frightening. Don't put it in email if you wouldn't want anybody to read it outside of, you know, normal conversation. It's kind of like the tree falling in the woods, you know, nobody hears it. 00:08:54:09 - 00:09:26:03 Unknown Did it really make a noise? Well, everybody here's an email because it can be forward to any anyone that has an email address. I also run into different relationship things, right? So once you hit send, as I said, they can change the relationship forever. And so we see people using false urgencies, urgent and exclamation point and red and all caps and all those things can really set people off if it's too long on one hand, too wordy, and then if it's too abrupt, not wordy enough. 00:09:26:05 - 00:09:46:22 Unknown It's funny how this really can have a lot of problems in typing an email when we're emotional. Really, that can really cause problems because tone is so hard to read. Yeah, it comes off way worse than even we were anticipating. And if we're heated when we write it, it comes off isn't serious. Yeah. Going back to your that emails are not confidential. 00:09:46:24 - 00:10:11:08 Unknown It's kind of like social media to whatever you put on social media. Don't expect it there forever. Yeah, exactly. It's going to be there forever. It lives forever. But we talked about some of these challenges. How can you overcome them? It's a good question. One of the things we had that podcast, a few podcasts ago, we talked about meetings and I talked about can this meeting be an email if it's something really simple and easy to understand? 00:10:11:10 - 00:10:37:12 Unknown Well, you can ask the opposite question Should this email be a meeting? Yes. If it's more complex, we better do that right. Emails for simple concepts or to follow up is when it's best, right? So we use. I learned this from my colleague Janet. I love this. She calls it the grandma or judge rule. If you're going to make grandma blush by what's in there or you got to stand in front of a judge, don't put it in an email. 00:10:37:14 - 00:11:00:04 Unknown And so I think that's that's something to really remember when you're considering what you're what you're hitting send. Yeah, absolutely. Any other scenarios where you should not definitely send an email or I know we talk about here if if you're writing and writing and writing and you can't just quickly send it, you should just pick up the phone and call that person. 00:11:00:06 - 00:11:16:18 Unknown Yeah. If you have to explain something, it's so much easier just going in person or picking up the phone. I like to call that the three thread rule that if I've sent it, they've replied, I've sent another one. It goes back three times, pick up the clock, pick up the phone and call them if you can see them. 00:11:16:18 - 00:11:41:03 Unknown Even better yet, go see them face to face. You're just going to pile on the confusion. Yeah, the lack of clarity. The more you try to explain something email, if it's not, if it's not understood. I think everyone here in who's listening can agree that we simply get way too many emails, though. Sure. And that means that a lot of emails can also be missed too, because our inbox is so big. 00:11:41:05 - 00:12:04:06 Unknown So how can you make your message stand out among the mass amount of emails that we already get? Lots of lots of ways that really, really help. You really want to think of your readers perspective. You know, I tell this joke in class, it's lame. Sara I heard it before, but w I have them in the morning. It's what everyone is listening to. 00:12:04:07 - 00:12:25:22 Unknown I do my radio voice there, but it really does. It is not a radio station. It's it's what's in it for me is what that stands for. And that joke doesn't work. West of the Mississippi, by the way, everything starts with K. But anyway, we want to put our our tone in our in our message, in their reading perspective right now. 00:12:25:24 - 00:12:43:21 Unknown How do I want to best send it? It you know it. You've got your message to your head. How will they best receive it so they can act? And so I haven't kind of put myself in their shoes. How does this make sense to them? Yeah. Is there a meaningful and searchable subject line? I encourage people actually to fill that out second to last. 00:12:43:23 - 00:13:00:24 Unknown People usually type it right away. We'll talk about that in a little bit, but it's actually something that I prefer to do once I've written the whole thing. Because sometimes if I start out with any with a subject line in the email, I could change significantly by the time I've typed it in, by the time it hit send, maybe I need a new subject line any way. 00:13:00:24 - 00:13:20:24 Unknown I think I want to make sure that it's searchable in case somebody is looking for that in the future. That's easy to find and it's not, you know, just to get their attention. You know what you'd see and you cry wolf because it really wasn't that important. Right. And there's that urgency thing again. Yeah. So that makes me think of like you customize your emails based on different people, too. 00:13:20:24 - 00:13:43:23 Unknown So I know some people who would just like, want one word in the subject line, No, open it. Or I know another person who would want like a detailed subject line. So it's like it's also funny thinking about the person who you're sending the email to, how it changes. Basically, there used to be people would use it like instant messenger before the thing and would say poem for end of message and everything was in the subject line. 00:13:44:00 - 00:14:04:13 Unknown Yeah, don't do that anymore. We moved on right now, but that was a thing years ago. One of the things I always suggest is to make sure your message as much as possible is on one pane of glass. And of course, you've got your your surface in the view pane of glass is about this big. What about cell phone? 00:14:04:13 - 00:14:22:13 Unknown Right. Can can you get it so small that they don't have to endlessly scroll now that's not always possible. Yeah, you need to give them enough information that they can take action but the shorter the better. Yeah. And I even prefer if I can get away with it. Bullet points as opposed endless paragraphs. Right. They're going to scroll and scroll is probably not to get read. 00:14:22:13 - 00:14:48:16 Unknown Absolutely. Well, we talked about one. You should not send an email or use Email is the best form of communication. So do you have any specific scenarios where email is proven to be the superior choice for professional interactions? It's an awesome follow up tool. I love after a phone call or after a meeting or even a face to face conversation. 00:14:48:18 - 00:15:05:14 Unknown Here's what we spoke about. Bullet point, bullet point, bullet point so that, you know, the person can take action and we can remember and it's documented, right, So that people can say, Well, you didn't say that or we didn't agree to do that. Well, here's what we agreed upon and that they disagree with it, then we can have that discussion over the follow up email. 00:15:05:14 - 00:15:29:17 Unknown Yeah, but I think it's a tremendous tool for that. I love that. It is great when you reach a mass audience. Yeah. And so we can do that really quickly, really efficiently. Just be just be really sure that it's ready to go before you hit. Send in with like follow ups. Like you said, the meetings, you can include resources than in the mail to Great idea. 00:15:29:19 - 00:15:55:17 Unknown Great. Are you one of my favorite things with helping people tailor an email message is to help them understand that if you know the communication style of the person you're emailing that can really help you. Folks that are very analytical want lots and lots of information, folks that are what are often called Thrivers or dominant communication styles. They want it as short as possible, right? 00:15:55:19 - 00:16:15:01 Unknown Well, how can you how can you make both happy, Right. If you're sending to a mass audience? Right. Well, what I suggest is you have it short, but then have a link is best if you can have a link or second passes an attachment. But you've got to make sure you remember to send it. Yeah, attach it right before you send. 00:16:15:03 - 00:16:33:18 Unknown We had that oops moment before, right. But then anyone that wants to swim in all that data and information can go to the attachment or go to the link. Yeah. And a person that couldn't care less doesn't have to read all that. Still gets what they need to be able to act on that email. And I think it's really important to remember business email should be actionable, right? 00:16:33:20 - 00:16:56:06 Unknown It's it's for accomplishing things and so there should be some action tied to it. It can be just to make something clear, to follow up, which I think is also a good tool, but usually following up on something that needs to be acted upon. Yeah, that's a great point. So how does email contribute to effective collaboration, especially when working with remote or international teams? 00:16:56:06 - 00:17:15:05 Unknown It's a great question, right? Follow up is so critical when you're in different time zones. I mean, it's critical even in the same building. Yeah, but it really helps us to make sure everybody is literally on the same page, is doing the right things at the right time by the due dates. Email makes that really easy and it can be asynchronous. 00:17:15:08 - 00:17:35:22 Unknown Somebody could open it on the other side of the world and it's instantaneous, right? So that is a really great factor with it. You can add the little at symbol in somebody's name and then you can actually send it to several people, but actually have individual call outs where they have different action items they have to do. And so that can really use it. 00:17:35:22 - 00:17:53:00 Unknown You can use it that way as a collaboration tool and people can read it when it's most convenient to them, their timeframe, their time zone, Right? Yeah, I just kind of a funny little ad I try to tell people don't put. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Because you don't know when they're going to read it. It might be that time when you send it. 00:17:53:00 - 00:18:11:11 Unknown It's just a little awkward. It's not a big deal. But I want I want to make sure that that is your maybe has a greeting because I think that sprinkles in some tone. I like using people's name if I can, or my colleague Cheryl says it's the most beautiful sound to a person's ears. And I say, I say that the way they like to be, call it too. 00:18:11:11 - 00:18:29:13 Unknown I. Mandy Somebody calls me Andrew. I think somebody is mad at me. So especially Bob Right. But, but yeah, I think that's how we sprinkle in a little tone because it is really hard to read. Yeah. And, and I think it's really considerate when they can read it when they're able to. Yeah. And the email allows for that in a clever way. 00:18:29:15 - 00:19:01:24 Unknown So how about then some of the other email etiquette rules that people may not know or just generally think of? Great question and there's no Emily Post Guide to email etiquette. There's nothing like that. Yeah, but I think most people will agree on a lot of these because they've just seen it abused so many times and they get irritated when they see this one thing, especially that you just mentioned about international, for example, I want to reflect the formality of my reader. 00:19:02:01 - 00:19:23:20 Unknown If it's a first time conversation or, you know, email read with somebody in another culture, I probably would start out with Hello, Miss Bowler or Hi Mrs. Bowler. And I'd Hey, Sophie. Right? It just it it's not as professional. But if they are, if they then reflect back a more casual tone, then I think that that's a good place to start. 00:19:23:22 - 00:19:44:05 Unknown Limit those emoticons in those emojis that we talked about, you know, is it professional here? It's okay if you've got that type of relationship and they know you. But here's the biggest one for me as far as etiquette. We've got to watch out for that reply to all button. I am so tired of somebody saying we're ordering from cousin's subs. 00:19:44:05 - 00:20:06:12 Unknown What do you want? And somebody replies to, Oh, I'll have the turkey with extra mail. I don't care. I didn't ask. Raised me up this way. So we reply to all and everybody needs to know. Well in there's like emails where people are like just reply to me and then it's like implied all Hi, I got to give some people some grace on this. 00:20:06:12 - 00:20:25:23 Unknown I understand that there's certain phones that if people reply from their phone it automatically replies to all, Well then we should talk to that company and get them to fix that. But that's beside the point. So then assume good intent that they didn't mean to send that to everybody. But good gracious, I don't care about your turkey sandwich if I didn't have. 00:20:25:23 - 00:20:52:00 Unknown I'm not taking the order. So now, looking ahead with the rise of AI in automation, how do you really first see the evolution of emails of role in in business overall? Yeah, that's a that's an that's an interesting one. Now, I think we're going to not know whether it's a human being there or of a AI writing us on one hand, but I think it'll be even easier to find what we're looking for. 00:20:52:02 - 00:21:13:18 Unknown Even if somebody does a poor job in the subject line or the message, if you needed six months later, what did that person say? What do I need to know? I think that'll help us find those types of things. The it's still the Wild West. We're going to we're going to find out. But I think those things maybe could be some advantages in AI can help craft an email or help you create an email template. 00:21:13:18 - 00:21:42:10 Unknown So before we close out the episode, what is one more thing that you want listeners to remember about email? I mentioned a moment ago that we should fill out this subject line second to last writing. We don't really know what the message is going to say until we typed it, right. Sure. Well, I'm pretty passionate about this and I wish I could petition Microsoft to change this because you should fill out the to the CC in the back fields last. 00:21:42:12 - 00:22:01:21 Unknown And why do you think that is? Because you might forget. I don't know. You might forget that a certain group has to be included or a certain person. So that's definitely true. Maybe I'm missing somebody in those fields if I if I do it too quickly in it. Because again, I don't know what I've type, but I can't send it anywhere. 00:22:01:23 - 00:22:18:02 Unknown Oh, if there's nothing there, I can't accidentally go oops. And should keep going on out and so I would love to petition Microsoft because it's in the upper left hand corner of your screen, Right. I want to have them put it in the lower right, because when you were in kindergarten, what did your teacher drill into your head? 00:22:18:02 - 00:22:37:09 Unknown Always put your name at the top, right? And where did you put it? In the upper left hand corner because we read left to right. Well, what do people do First? They put your dress in there. Well, it's the worst thing you can do, because if something's not ready, you can't even accidentally hit send. Now, your question about I don't know, because now they might be monitoring your keystrokes so you still could get in trouble. 00:22:37:09 - 00:22:55:24 Unknown So watch out for those nasty grams. Right. Because some people will do that to get the emotion out when they're mad and they get delete. Maybe we don't even do that anymore. Maybe find a new way to vent your vent your frustrations. But that's a good right and not send it if there's nowhere for Yes. And sure, a lot of people would appreciate that change. 00:22:56:01 - 00:23:13:00 Unknown Yeah. And I'm so careful with that, especially if it's something more sensitive. Yeah, I will. If it's a reply, it puts it in there immediately. Right? If it's a forward, it puts it in there immediately. I will cut and paste it somewhere else and bring it back when I'm done. If I'm worried that could accidentally hit, save, send too quickly. 00:23:13:00 - 00:23:35:22 Unknown Yeah, that's a great idea. So if our audience would like to learn anything else about email etiquette, do you have any recommendations for anything else Emery can offer? So we have a great class and of course I think it's great I teach it, but it's called date. It's called business Email How to write it, Right? And it's a terrific class. 00:23:35:22 - 00:24:08:17 Unknown It's a half day and we basically focus on the things we we talked about today with a much deeper dive. In addition to that, we have an even more robust class. It's business writing and all the stuff that's in the email class is also within that class. But then we get best practices for letters and text messages and emails and even how to make the tone come through better and all those types of things because we have a full day to really address lots of business writing issues because it is just so hard to read tone in any type of textual message. 00:24:08:23 - 00:24:26:22 Unknown Well, we will make sure to link those two classes in the show notes below. So if you're interested, you can just take a look the show notes below and and register and have Andy as a teacher. Yeah, I'd love to see you in class or Andy. That's all the time we have today. But I want to thank you for all the great content and tips that you gave us. 00:24:26:24 - 00:24:45:01 Unknown I think I will now think about this episode every time I debate sending an email, and I hope you do too. But to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, I would urge you to come in any any tips you have here on email, best practices, or just anything that you want to add on to our conversation. 00:24:45:03 - 00:25:07:00 Unknown Don't forget to share this episode out and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. Like I said, we have all the resources you need in the show. Notes below include including resources on this topic too. So thanks for tuning in today and we'll see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign up to connect. 00:25:07:00 - 00:25:22:04 Unknown For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: In part 2 of this episode, we delve even deeper into the transformative world of employee-driven learning journeys. Join us as we address the crucial challenges organizations may encounter when implementing this approach and reveal expert insights on overcoming them. Plus, we'll take a fascinating peek into the future of employee development, exploring emerging trends and innovations that promise to reshape the landscape of professional growth and learning within your organization. Don't miss this essential follow-up episode for answers to the remaining key questions and get a complete roadmap to success! Resources: Amanda's Article in Association for Talent Development's TD Magazine  MRA Learning & Development  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Amanda Mosteller  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:03:14 - 00:00:24:17 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:24:19 - 00:00:49:18 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. All right, Well, welcome, everybody, to part two of our employee Design learning conversation. So I'm joined with Amanda Mosteller, our director of talent development here at MRA, once again to cover some remaining key questions of this topic to really ensure that you are confident in implementing this style of learning into your organizations. So thanks again, Amanda, for joining us. 00:00:49:19 - 00:01:12:11 Unknown We're excited for part two. Yes, I love talking about this. Oh, yes. Well, last episode, you kind of gave us an overview of this concept as well as some examples and some strategies to use while using employee design learning. So before we kind of kick it off, do you want to give us a little refresher of what this concept really means? 00:01:12:13 - 00:01:56:13 Unknown Absolutely. Employee designed learning is an instructional design approach that organizations can use where the instructional designer actually moves into more of a consultant role to a team of employees that have volunteered due to a passion of their own around developing their peers due to a desire that if they, their peers and their future individuals in their team are going to be going through this learning program, they have a desire to help shape what it looks like, and they have a perspective that often stakeholders and means might not be heading in what the true day to day of the average team member in that role is like. 00:01:56:15 - 00:02:39:12 Unknown So they can really help shape the design and development of the program. So employee designed learning is an instructional design approach where the idea team member is consulting a team of employees in designing classes to Thrive business strategy or the team strategy or the Gap area forward. And I would definitely encourage listeners if they haven't listened to part one, to go back now and kind of get that overview of this concept, because Amanda also highlights some great examples in real life stories of how she's kind of how to implement this in other organizations and some great success stories. 00:02:39:12 - 00:03:05:10 Unknown So I would urge you to go take a look at that. If you haven't, I second that for sure. We'll kind of dive in a little bit deeper. One concern might be that employee design learning could lack structure or consistency. So any advice on how organizations can really balance that individual customization with the need for the standardized learning outcomes? 00:03:05:12 - 00:03:35:22 Unknown Absolutely. That is where the instructional designer really is in charge and taking the lead. So the Learning committee, the learning team, the design team, whatever fun word you want to call your employee design group of individuals, the instructional designer has to make sure you're following instructional design best practices, whether Addie makes sense, whether the SAM design model makes more sense, whether you're doing a agile approach, which is part of Sam. 00:03:35:22 - 00:04:10:05 Unknown But additional waterfall approaches can apply whether you're doing, you know, quick brief stand up meetings for design on specific objectives. Whatever the strategy of design is that the instructional designer feels makes the most sense, They need to own driving that and helping the employee team learn what the design process looks like. Additionally, the stakeholders do have a part to play here, so this isn't a employees are just designing what they think would be neat. 00:04:10:05 - 00:04:33:10 Unknown The the process starts off as we talked about in the last episode with the designer, the instructional designer talking with the stakeholders about what we're trying to accomplish, what strategy are we trying to Thrive? What skills do your team members need to help you get there, or what gaps are we trying to close and what objectives are we creating to help get there? 00:04:33:10 - 00:05:11:13 Unknown So understanding the need is going to help the instructional designer Thrive the team in the right approach. Then they're responsible as part of that consulting piece in making sure we're following industry best practices in terms of what design approach fits, what type of program we're building, our timeline, how big it is, things like that. You can really run into a risk of things running wild if you put all the power in the design committee's hands, because that's not their expertise area. 00:05:11:13 - 00:05:33:02 Unknown Their expertise is the job role. Their expertise is the day to day. Their expertise is what to expect and what their own gaps are and how the organization has helped in the past or opportunities as an organization to Thrive development in these areas that haven't been there. And the instructional designer is the expert in the in the IDE approach process strategies. 00:05:33:02 - 00:06:05:21 Unknown And then they're actually developing the materials too. So they again, they aren't they're just a consultant. They also when the when we get to PowerPoint or whatever, you know, neat visuals you are making to go along with the program, when you get to a worksheets, when you get to takeaways, the designer is also playing the heavy role of building and creating those pieces with the employee group helping guide and make sure it's what it should look like. 00:06:05:21 - 00:06:30:02 Unknown Make sure it's meeting what the vision was, those kinds of things. So the designer has a very pivotal role in ensuring there is some structure and a method to whatever madness they've created. So it sounds like it's it's very much a team effort and an all hands on deck kind of thing. Yes. And that's part of how this is different than an instructional designer owning the project. 00:06:30:05 - 00:06:59:10 Unknown Talking to me is maybe one, two, three me interviews to really get some information and then sending it back saying, right, because in the traditional approach, the instructional designer is doing a massive amount of the heavy lifting and, and they now have this group of employees that are really invested in a different way than your typical SME who's been tapped, who's told, you really know how to do this, we want you to help. 00:06:59:10 - 00:07:21:15 Unknown And they might not have time or a desire or a passion. And so their investment is different and that falls on the instructional designer to bridge that investment gap. This approach, the investment is almost the instructional designer saying, hold on, I know you really want to be hands on, but let me take this one, Mark. But you're suggesting there's no objective in the world that's going to meet that. 00:07:21:15 - 00:07:46:02 Unknown And I don't know how to design something to meet this non-existent objective. So that's part of that role. Well, we just talked about that. The concern might be the lack of structure or consistency, but do you have any other potential challenges or pitfalls that organizations might encounter with employee design learning initiatives, or any advice on how to overcome them? 00:07:46:04 - 00:08:11:16 Unknown Yes, I can think of two big ones that I've run into in the past. One is the famous phrase too many cooks in the kitchen. So sometimes you have a lot of employees volunteering, and their motivations behind volunteering might not be just passion and desire and a like to help develop their peers. Maybe they perceive it as getting out of their day to day job. 00:08:11:18 - 00:09:04:18 Unknown So really refining the expectations of the committee to make sure it's understood partnering with the leadership teams of the employees to make sure the people that are volunteering, they also think should or would be good at helping design. Or they do have a knowledge that they would love to replicate and have future individuals coming into that role do it that way as well, and really coming up with how many folks are the right amount of folks Instead of we'll just take anyone that volunteers because you can get way too many opinions and way too many competing ideas for what a great exercise could be or what should be a structured learning experience versus what should 00:09:04:18 - 00:09:33:00 Unknown we point folks towards blog articles or podcasts or YouTube channels to watch. If you have too many opinions involved, you will have a frustrated team, potentially an instructional designer who is struggling to manage, said team and the program can go awry and then it doesn't get the buy in from the stakeholders. That was the whole purpose in the first place. 00:09:33:02 - 00:09:56:24 Unknown So that's one that I can think of. And the other one I kind of alluded to of that. First of what someone's motivation to joining, we have to be crystal clear that this is a stretch assignment, an experiential learning opportunity, a volunteer opportunity. This does not abdicate team members from their day to day expectations of their roles as well. 00:09:56:24 - 00:10:22:18 Unknown This is a volunteered in addition to so really figuring out one is what is your employee base. If you have hourly employees, for example, then we have to find a way to involve them in this design during their shift. Or is the company so invested in this approach for a very important program that really will be key in driving us to our strategy? 00:10:22:20 - 00:10:47:20 Unknown And so are we willing to pay overtime for the hours for those folks that join? So thinking about the expectations and how we get the employees involved and help depending on hourly salary is another thing to pay attention to, because of course, legally we we're asking them, even though it's voluntary, we're asking them to participate in something. So we need to pay them for it. 00:10:47:22 - 00:11:12:24 Unknown And then additionally, even if I'm salaried, we have job expectations, productivity, goals, deadlines, our own things that we have to meet in our day to day is as well. So just being very clear with with the team members that volunteer, here's the expectations around what it means to be a part of this committee to Thrive designing a learning program. 00:11:13:01 - 00:11:40:07 Unknown But you also will still be expected to get all of your day to day work done as well. So this is not abdicating or in place of the regular expectations of your job. So those are some watch outs to many folks, making sure that we're focused on who is volunteering and the instructional designer. You know, they might not be as involved in understanding shifts and hourly versus salary and all all of who's volunteering. 00:11:40:07 - 00:12:11:04 Unknown So making sure there are some controls or really clear partnership with the managers of these teams so that you have the right number of folks helping the managers understand this is a development opportunity, so it's great for folks to volunteer. We will not be taking away from what their productivity is going to be to your team. We're just helping add to the value and benefit of the program, the expertise in the information that we're sharing and investment in your employees. 00:12:11:04 - 00:12:44:11 Unknown They like that. So let's allow them if they're ready. But those are some of those big watch outs that best practices are, of course, your usual right. Are you really clear in what it is and communicate it well after talking about some of these watch jobs, feel like we got to get on more of a positive note. So I think I think some of our listeners would be curious to know in what ways does employee design learning contribute to employee engagement and motivation and just overall job satisfaction? 00:12:44:13 - 00:13:15:24 Unknown I think they'd also want to know if there's any specific metrics or just indicators that they can use to measure these outcomes. Absolutely. So there's a few things to think about. One, you get feedback, especially in the in the talent development space in the L.A. world around do the programs feel like they fit my job and are they clear in my expectation and and so am I going to be able to apply this in my future. 00:13:16:01 - 00:13:47:07 Unknown So from an overall team perspective, employees feel more impacted by the programs when it's more than just I talked to the one super high performer as ask me, I really had my peers help design this. I really am new to the organization and realizing that I'm working side by side with some of the people that helped build the 30, 60, 90 day onboarding, learn my job role experiences and classes and programs that I'm going through. 00:13:47:09 - 00:14:08:21 Unknown And man, they really did a good job because it is real on on applicable to my job as I walk out of the class kind of stuff. So this really helps enhance what instructional designers know our best practice in terms of adult learning theory. How are we able to immediately apply what we're learning to our job? That's what we care about. 00:14:08:23 - 00:14:44:04 Unknown It's don't waste my time. And so overall, you're going to have satisfaction there from a folks that are volunteering to be a part of this program and are are allowed to do it. They are finding a way to shine in their expertise. Show highlight what they know to their leadership, to their peers, because at the end of the day, we know we have emerging leaders, we know we have folks within our teams that really do have a lot to share and a lot to develop. 00:14:44:06 - 00:15:11:09 Unknown There's only so many things we can make and do for people. We can't create jobs just to keep somebody around. So doing something like this allows people to step out of their normal day to day, demonstrate their expertise, practice being in an influence without authority, space practice, you know, communicating and driving change, which is what a lot of folks move into leadership. 00:15:11:15 - 00:15:35:21 Unknown When I talk to a lot of new leaders and I say, Why are you here? I hear over and over and over again, I wanted to have a seat at the table to help Thrive the change that my team kept experiencing. I wanted to be able to impact it. And so this is another way for folks that don't have that position yet or don't really want that level of authority and therefore responsibility. 00:15:35:21 - 00:16:05:01 Unknown But they do want to help Thrive, change, help Thrive what they and their peers are being impacted by. And so from an engagement and retention perspective, something like this, you're building anyway, you have to build it anyway. The organization's going to build a program towards this anyway, so why not tap on those folks, have them step in and help in a different, much more involved way and feel like they're getting that impact. 00:16:05:03 - 00:16:47:23 Unknown They're flexing their muscles. It's a great experiential learning and stretch assignment approach and we know that people are looking for that. Absolutely. Are there any other I know we talked about just how this can contribute to employee engagement and motivation, but any other specific metrics or indicators that you can really take away from those? Sure. So often when you think from a learning program perspective, because because it's not just the volunteers on the committee, we're really looking when we do program surveys is it's so easy to get to. 00:16:48:02 - 00:17:11:04 Unknown I have my instructional design hat on today is I'm thinking of all the the Bloom's taxonomy and Kirkpatrick's evaluation levels. It is so easy to get one and two for the evaluation level. One is the session itself. Did you like it? Was it helpful? And often if people like the facilitator, they'll rate things like because they like the person. 00:17:11:06 - 00:17:42:08 Unknown So that's great. That helps me know a little bit. Then level two is are you getting that knowledge growth? Are you demonstrating it whether we do it through pre and post assessments or role plays or different exercises within the sessions or within the experiences themselves to demonstrate that knowledge gain? That's that's pretty simple to do as well. Three and four gets harder so level three and then if you're in the new age. 00:17:42:08 - 00:18:07:17 Unknown Kirkpatrick World there's a level five, but going with the traditional level three is that transfer onto the job. So often we do something like a three month assessment back out to attendees of a program, and you would say, Are you finding you're using what we've learned, what you've learned, How has it helped? How has it changed? Give us some examples. 00:18:07:19 - 00:18:30:16 Unknown So it's one way or we have touch base conversations. As a manager, I might have an intentional. My company has created kind of a coaching sheet in three months post session and then six months post session. I might ask some fun, some questions, or as an organization you might pull a three month or six month or both learning cohort touch base back together. 00:18:30:20 - 00:18:56:03 Unknown Or we're talking about how is it working. Any one of those metrics strategies is a way to gather the information. And what we found, especially in the sales example when I was doing this at that international company was the program, because we did that regularly with big programs. I mean, they were investing my whole time for a year at a time would be towards a certain program. 00:18:56:03 - 00:19:34:13 Unknown So we needed to have metrics to prove my salary was beneficial. Right? So we would, you know, yeah, it was helpful. These things were great. We felt like this these examples didn't really match what it was like. Once I got out into the sales field, once I was talking to customers and selling this stuff, and after we used this approach for the big multilevel multi-year development program, part of this big succession planning strategy, we found that those conversations and satisfaction in those 90 and six month touch bases went up. 00:19:34:15 - 00:20:02:20 Unknown The examples were much more realistic. The situations that we would practice talking to customer rebuttals were much more realistic. They weren't standard things that I was able to find. That as me would say, Yeah, that work we needs were very real scenarios that the Learning Committee had gone through and helped us design and then helped us come through not only best practices but what made sense at that organization's culture. 00:20:02:22 - 00:20:32:24 Unknown So very real. And that started to come out in those Level three evaluation checks. Level four is going to be a training department's bane of existence. It's kind of being the instructional designers hardest because you're talking ROI. I of show me your investment matters and that that could be in so many different metrics, especially depending on what the learning program is that you're building. 00:20:33:01 - 00:21:08:15 Unknown If I'm building sales strategies around a new product, I can tell what were our pre program close rates versus our three months, six month a year later program closed rates for individuals that went through the program. We can compare apples to apples that way. If you're doing something more soft skill, though, I would recommend engaging in utilizing a balanced scorecard approach where financial numbers that you or any type of data metrics is only one component of what you're looking at. 00:21:08:21 - 00:21:43:07 Unknown You're also pulling source information from those level three evaluations. You're looking at retention numbers, you're looking at external or internal customer impact satisfaction numbers. So you can pull a lot of different data pre and post to determine did this overall make sense for the financial investment, even if it's just our employees time and our full time training departments, instructional designers time to make that program makes sense. 00:21:43:09 - 00:22:04:24 Unknown That works really well for soft skill development, especially when it is a big time investment. We're talking not because any leader is going to say, I want 16 objectives and I'm going to give you about 4 hours of my team's time, wants to meet it and every instruction designer is going to shake their head because that's not possible. 00:22:05:01 - 00:22:31:19 Unknown And so if we can use the learning Committee to advocate to meet your needs in what's feasible, and then we can show you real ROI through a balanced scorecard approach of whatever four things we want to pull. To have those pieces make sense. Then you're really proof is in the pudding that this is worth being scalable, replicable, and having your folks spend the time. 00:22:31:21 - 00:22:57:18 Unknown Yeah, those are those are all good examples of what metrics and indicators you can use and kind of take note of to see if you're successful. But we've also emphasized that team effort component and the importance of just having an all hands on deck with this. So we know that collaboration and communication are critical in successful instructional design. 00:22:57:20 - 00:23:26:17 Unknown So my question is how can organizations foster collaboration between the employees? The subject matter expert is meis and instructional designers. In the process of creating these personalized learning experiences. So as you're going through the design process, there's going to be natural points where the committee is going to have to go gather some more information and bring it back to the next project meeting. 00:23:26:17 - 00:23:59:09 Unknown So it really varies by how large the project is, how many programs you're creating. When I was creating the three year sales succession development program, after we got the buy in from the stakeholders of the design plan. So we followed the ADDIE model. So I won't talk to everybody. I got all of the needs analysis complete, got our volunteers, we set our expectations and then we came up with what makes sense to get us to these things. 00:23:59:09 - 00:24:27:11 Unknown It was a big combination of live instructor led experiences, some on demand experiences. We created an intentional internal only podcast to develop selling through stories. So that was an opportunity that we wanted to grow, but we just really didn't feel like it made sense to teach a class about it and then we had some specific blogs and things that we were encouraging folks to subscribe to for certain ideas. 00:24:27:13 - 00:24:50:15 Unknown So once we came up with that design, then it became creating who's owning which piece. So the instructional designers working with all of you to get it all done. Obviously we're working more heavily with our live instructor led things that we were building on demand. We had opportunities to source off the shelf type of experiences that made sense. 00:24:50:15 - 00:25:17:08 Unknown So I helped with that group. But each of these small teams, then they went out and worked with everybody else. They went out and got some ideas. So if I had some volunteers from the committee say, We want to own the Self-Guided Self-paced Resource repository, which has your blogs, your articles, your books, you'd suggest to read different things, to listen to different YouTube channels, to go follow. 00:25:17:10 - 00:25:39:08 Unknown They had ideas. They don't know every single thing out there. So they were walking around talking to their own internal network, so their own peers catching up with means and really connecting also externally like they had, you know, colleagues and peers of networks that worked in other companies that were like, Oh yeah, we're really big on this book, or we talk about this a lot. 00:25:39:08 - 00:26:06:14 Unknown And they were bringing all of that together. So once you're getting into the development stage of instructional design, that's when it becomes just this huge partnership with anybody and everybody that has the resources and information to share. So they have to work very well together and have that good collaboration. And that's why that's such a great point, Sam, because that is why you're just taps me. 00:26:06:14 - 00:26:38:07 Unknown Might not be the right person because I don't know how many smiles you can I've connected with since me, and some of them are fantastic and some of them are like, I'll give you 45 minutes once. And I'm like, okay, so they're not all they're not all known for being amazing collaborators, but so you might be a great information resource that one of our learning committee employees will reach out to and they will talk to you for that 145 minutes, you'll get us for sure. 00:26:38:09 - 00:27:00:21 Unknown We'll kind of wrapping up here. Let's look into the future a little bit. That's a landscape of work. Definitely continues to evolve. How do you envision the future of employee design learning and its impact on professional development and any trends that you think that our listeners kind of need to be prepared to embrace or organizations need to be aware of now? 00:27:00:23 - 00:27:40:10 Unknown Yeah, so I see it growing because I see it as an engagement strategy. I see organizations recognizing you have a lot of resources within your own internal current talent pool that can help you create very on target impactful programs. You do not need necessarily an entire specialized team for just that. You need some really strong internal consultants that know instructional design, know what's best practice, can really keep their finger on the pulse, and then engage your employee base. 00:27:40:10 - 00:28:15:00 Unknown I mean, you have a lot of talent and a lot of knowledge just hanging out, working every day. So I really do see it growing because I see organizations needing to get more creative and more inventive and what engagement looks like. Engagement doesn't just have to be now. It should include, but does not just have to be the social aspect, the connectivity aspect, having swag and having great recognition and rewards programs, we have to do other things to foster everybody's thirst to continue to grow. 00:28:15:02 - 00:28:37:12 Unknown And to your point on trends, we know we knew this in 2019. Gartner had a big research about employee engagement, and they came out with the data around how my own organization doesn't develop me, and yet I'm looking for it. I don't remember the percentage. I don't want to be wrong, so I'm not going to make one up. 00:28:37:14 - 00:29:03:13 Unknown But the research was high in that employees continue to look to their organizations to develop their career. They're no longer doing that on their own. It's becoming an expectation of the organization. And so organizations are we've already done tuition reimbursement. We've we've already done development programs. What else could we possibly do? And this is another thing to do this this can help develop lots of skills for people. 00:29:03:18 - 00:29:48:03 Unknown And that's really what people are wanting. They're wanting skill development. They don't want another I mean, who doesn't want another certification? But that doesn't have to be a big investment like that. This can meet that and the other future trend. Hold on to your hats. Everybody is internal employee influencers and new ideas that will internal employee influencers. So as the younger Gen Zs start to enter the workforce now and five years from now, Gen Alpha's elders will start to pop in to full time work capability. 00:29:48:05 - 00:30:19:22 Unknown This is these are generations shaped by getting their knowledge from a person they trust through, not because their job role says you should trust them. So they're looking for If I want to grow in marketing, it's like taking mentoring to the next level and having an internal person who you would love to share their expertise and their knowledge with everybody, and they want it less and less produced and less and less fancy. 00:30:19:22 - 00:30:56:24 Unknown So we're talking selfie videos posted on your Internet site around Here's my top to top tip Tuesday. You do things like that that's that's what and I mean talk about employee designed get your employees involved tell them the goal and let them run with it. You'd be amazed what they can do. You'd be amazed that it's for free, amazed at that really how impactful it's going to be and how much, as you think about recruiting, engaging and retaining the next generation, there's a there's a lot a lot going down in that world. 00:30:56:24 - 00:31:21:10 Unknown And I think that's going to be the future and we'll be talking pretty soon on. General, coming up. So shameless plug, another plug that wasn't even on purpose this time. Oh, well, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast again and share your expertise on this topic with us for part two. Absolutely. Thank you for asking me back. 00:31:21:12 - 00:31:39:11 Unknown Of course, Bill, to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, I'd urge you to comment something new you learn today and any questions you may have for me, I'm sure should be happy to connect with you or just anything you really want to add on to this conversation. We're curious to hear your thoughts on it. 00:31:39:13 - 00:32:02:00 Unknown Don't forget to share this episode out and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. Like always, we have all the resources in the show notes below, including resources on this topic today. Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in and we will see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. 00:32:02:00 - 00:32:17:03 Unknown For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description: Every year, MRA conducts a compensation study to look at compensation and pay, from strategy to pay adjustments to market data to putting it all together with communication and transparency. In addition to publishing the survey results we also offer a webinar to talk about the results and share current trends and data.  Our podcast listeners are getting a special look at the survey data, as well as the opportunity to hear from MRA's experts and their takeaways from the webinar and questions that were asked. Resources: Salary Data Aging Calculator   2023 Compensation Trends Survey   2023 Compensation Trends Survey Executive Summary  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Mackenzie Button  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Mackenzie Button  Guest Bio - Melissa Wymer  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Melissa Wymer  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:55:00 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute Thrive. Today we're here to talk about compensation trends. So every year MRA conducts a compensation study to look at compensation and pay. From strategy to pay. Adjustments to market data, to putting it all together with communication and transparency. And in addition to publishing the survey results, we also offer a webinar to talk about these results and share current trends and data, which we just got done. 00:00:55:02 - 00:01:17:23 Unknown So today our podcast listeners are getting kind of a special behind the scenes look at the survey data, as well as the opportunity to hear from two compensation experts and their takeaways from the webinar and also questions that they were asked today. So let me introduce you to our experts, Mackenzie Button, MRA's Total Rewards director, and Melissa Wymer. 00:01:18:01 - 00:01:45:23 Unknown Our surveys manager at MRA. So thank you to you too, for joining me today. Thanks for having us. Well, let's just dive right in into the first question. So we actually conducted a poll on social media right before this com trends webinar. And we asked organizations, what are your top concerns surrounding compensations and its trends? And we actually got 53% to say that their top concern was on compensation strategy. 00:01:46:00 - 00:02:05:13 Unknown So first, let's kind of talk a little bit about compensation strategy. Mackenzie, can you define what is a good strategy? Sure. So it's kind of funny that the 53% said that that was their top concern because I think Melissa knows from the comp trend survey that that was probably about the number that said they actually had a strategy. 00:02:05:14 - 00:02:39:03 Unknown Really? Yeah. So we did see about half to respondents saying they had an actual compensation strategy. So first thing is to know that one might need to exist. And then when we work through our different projects and helping people figure out what a strategy might be, we want to look at things like your market position, how you internally value your jobs, figure out things for geography if it matters or not to your organization, internal or external equity, you know, frequency of updates and and figuring out how those things align when you know how often you want to do things. 00:02:39:05 - 00:03:08:00 Unknown So having a strategy has all those different steps in it, and you want to have it aligned with leadership too. So understanding across the organization what strategy might be and how it might impact your organization's overall strategy for sure. Kind of diving a little deeper into that question, what impact does getting your compensation right have for employers? So I think it is it can do a lot of different things for an organization. 00:03:08:02 - 00:03:30:22 Unknown So you can get the right candidates for your group with the right amount of money. It doesn't necessarily necessarily have to be above or below market, but having a good package that you put together does might not scare people away. And then it also can help retain, retain your or your employees and help them, you know, be successful and be motivated to to help your organization thrive. 00:03:31:01 - 00:03:57:08 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. Good answer. So MRA conducts this annual compensation trend survey, as we said about this time of year to help employers start planning for the year ahead. So, Melissa, I'm curious regarding the survey itself, was there anything that really surprised you with any of the data or results? Actually, no. Well, we had the results from a nature perspective, and I was not shocked by the results. 00:03:57:09 - 00:04:21:15 Unknown You know, pay transparency, continues to be a hot topic. Some of our respondents have pay strategies. Some do not. It is interesting to see how this all plays out. Yeah, absolutely. So, McKenzie, I know you've done this for a couple of years now, this event. So I'm curious to know how the competition trends have kind of evolved in recent years. 00:04:21:17 - 00:04:43:06 Unknown Sure. So I think a couple of years ago, we tried to have a title called Something along the Lines of the Power of Pay Transparency. I think we might have used it a year recently, more recent than that, but that's something. Pay transparency was an anomaly for a very long time. I mean, people in the public sector or using public funds often would see some pay transparency within their ranges. 00:04:43:06 - 00:05:07:00 Unknown People might know what's going on, but now it's way more in the forefront. So yeah, Melissa saw it in her data from the survey that people are becoming more open, organizations are more open to pay transparent and see, and then employers are having to react to that. So if you have pay transparency, you have to have typically a range or something to anchor your jobs to and not just the person. 00:05:07:02 - 00:05:23:14 Unknown So we we still hear organizations say, you know, we ask them, how do you determine how much to pay someone? And they say, well, we looked at how much the last person made. And, you know, we try to align it with the last person in the job versus looking at it from a market perspective for a job versus a person. 00:05:23:15 - 00:05:51:19 Unknown So pay transparency is making people do a lot of things differently. And I think it's good for organizations to get their strategies aligned. Absolutely. Well, getting some data out there, some numbers out there, according to this, your survey. 95% of respondents gave pay increases in the last 12 months and respondents who provided increases over the last 12 months reported issuing an average 4.5% increase, which seems like a pretty large increase. 00:05:51:19 - 00:06:21:13 Unknown So I guess the question everyone and our listeners are probably wondering is what can we expect for next year, that percentage? Yes. So we did see pretty much an outrageous amount given COVID. And you were still dealing with the effects of COVID and we're retaining talent, but also recruiting because remote work really is the way to go. And so we have to find ways to incentivize them to come to the office. 00:06:21:15 - 00:06:48:09 Unknown So we're expecting, because the economy is stabilizing a little bit more, we are expecting it to lower down to 3.8%, which is actually the current national average them. So with that being said, the 4% is actually not as outrageous compared to other sources that we use. So like world of Work is around 4%. Wells Tower, Watts is around 4%. 00:06:48:09 - 00:07:15:06 Unknown And then one of our other companies that we look at is actually closer to the 3.8%. Gotcha. Okay. Can I add something to that? So when we talk about it in our compensation roundtable this month, we were talking about how the survey's last year, I think everyone predicted their budgets were going to be around 4%, maybe 3.8%. And but what they really did was at 4.5%. 00:07:15:06 - 00:07:29:22 Unknown So people weren't able to stick to their budgets. They gave a little bit more than what they were planning on. So this year, seeing that the numbers are still up around the same, we'll see if people are able to you know, organizations need to give a little bit more outside of their predicted budgets for the year to year. 00:07:29:24 - 00:07:54:05 Unknown The days of 3% increases are long over. I mean, not that they were that great back prior to COVID, but I know all of my employees were like, oh, this is a cost of living increase, not a merit increase. So I don't foresee us getting back down to the 3%, but probably more that middle three to upper. 402i gotcha. 00:07:54:06 - 00:08:13:23 Unknown Yeah. And with anything you're going to have a range there depending on your compensation strategy, right? If you're going to do merit increases, what's important for those for those increases and what does your budget look like? Yeah. And nonprofits are going to have a hard time competing with that. I came from a nonprofit and doing 4% was just not in the budget, really. 00:08:13:23 - 00:08:39:01 Unknown It's actually fewer grant funded. Mm hmm. So in our webinar today, we got a ton of chat questions. I think we got over like 48. Yes. So today I'm just I pulled out a few of them to go over. So the first one says, regarding aggregators, some comp professionals do recommend them, but the caution was just given to not rely solely on these pay factors, comp analysts, etc. per purchase. 00:08:39:01 - 00:09:04:09 Unknown The trusted surveys to create their data sets. So how often do you see a truly significant difference in the aggregated data on the trusted source data? Anyone can take this on though. I think for the for the aggregators, they they can be good. But even with any survey source, they are not every job is going to be in there for every different survey cut and being able to fill in the gaps with an algorithm. 00:09:04:11 - 00:09:21:03 Unknown That's where we usually want to dig in and see how many people have reported on it in this area. So if there's, you know, what's your number you use, what's the I have five or more, then we can respond on the data cut. So the the aggregators will be saying there might be zero people that have responded, but they're able to report on that data point. 00:09:21:05 - 00:09:42:01 Unknown So it's just making sure you're using them with, you know, with some caution and with your eyes open and seeing if, you know, the data seems too good to be true. They probably are people reporting on it. The right not even be those industries in the area. Right. Just make sure you're looking at other sources to to to align that that you can validate whether participants and in numbers. 00:09:42:03 - 00:10:04:10 Unknown So there is also a lot of tech questions around aging data. So one of them was what percentage do you use to age data? Oh, this is always a fun question because there's two factors when considering it. You want to know what the percentage which is typically aligned to the average market salary increase and then the desired date you want to use. 00:10:04:10 - 00:10:30:14 Unknown If you plan to update your salary ranges in 2024 and the salary survey effective date is March of 2023, using a 4% as a market average salary increase, that data would be aged around 3.3%. The formula is usually ten divided by 12 times 0.4. So there's a fun little formula for it. And we also have that formula on our website for members to use. 00:10:30:16 - 00:10:56:03 Unknown Okay. Well, we'll include that in the resources then. So another question we got was as pay transparency becomes more common, we'll start to see salary ranges included in job postings more often. So do you anticipate this becoming a more valid data source as more companies transition to open communication regarding positions and ranges? So I think Melissa has a good point to talk about. 00:10:56:03 - 00:11:17:19 Unknown Like the we have the data points of like the five different levels of transparency. And one of the things is like, do do you tell your employees about what's on more than just on their paycheck? Do you train your employees on it? So it's one thing to actually be proactive and train them on this points. And the other perspective is we post it and they have to go looking for it and then they might come ask questions. 00:11:17:19 - 00:11:43:00 Unknown So are you proactive about it with the pay transparency if you have to post it or are you, you know, more reactive because people see, you know, you're not sending them links to the job that they're in that you're hiring for, but you know, you have to be reactive. Yeah. McKenzie brings up a really good point. As I know, before even Ohio in Cincinnati was probably was in the timing. 00:11:43:02 - 00:12:29:15 Unknown But some of our major cities in Ohio are having their position their pay scale bad hosted. And it did cause a lot of issues and lowered morale, especially when it came to someone just job hunting and then they stumble upon, oh, my company's hiring. Oh, I make way less than that for players. So being able to have that tough conversation and mentally prepare your staff, I know with us it was difficult to have those conversations, but also being transparent and hey, yes, we know you're underpaid. 00:12:29:15 - 00:12:56:09 Unknown This is our plan to correct that. Mm hmm. And just being open again, I always like to say, if you have a range, try to stick within it. Right. So if people do see those ranges posted and they're below the minimum, then that's definitely something you should be reviewing. Yeah. Well, as we kind of wrap up today, McKenzie, I know you talked about some hot trends in your webinars, so can you and nurse with some of those hot trends for 2024 in relation to compensation? 00:12:56:13 - 00:13:17:01 Unknown So we already talked too much about AI and we're still all learning about that too. But from the total rewards perspective we are seeing, yeah, that shift, that big thing that's shifting from what what are we spending our money on and is it what our employees want us to be spending our money on so much? And I talked about the, you know, polling your your employees to see what's important to them. 00:13:17:06 - 00:13:49:02 Unknown And then I think when we had one of the questions in the chat about being, you know, what are some some lower cost options or ones that aren't hitting the budget too hard that can really motivate employees or attract the right candidates. So we think that balance of compensation benefits, the work life balance, the four different quadrants that we talk about when we look at total rewards, total compensation, you know, it's really balancing those things out to keep your workforce happy and getting the right people to work for, you know, some good trends to keep in the back of your head. 00:13:49:04 - 00:14:10:19 Unknown Yeah. Well, thank you both for coming on to the podcast today and great job with the webinar. I appreciate both of you. And to our listeners, if you liked our chat and topic today, I would urge you to share out this episode. Consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We have all the resources you need in the show notes below, including resources from today. 00:14:10:21 - 00:14:33:06 Unknown Otherwise, thank you so much for tuning in today and thank you both and we'll see you next week. Thanks. Thanks. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes drive so you don't miss out. 00:14:33:06 - 00:14:37:24 Unknown Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Description:

Description: Discover how organizations are empowering their workforce to take the reins of their own development, creating tailored and impactful learning journeys. Hear real-life examples, inspiring stories, and actionable strategies that will transform the way you approach professional growth and training within your organization. Resources: Amanda's Article in Association for Talent Development's TD Magazine  MRA Learning & Development  MRA Membership  About MRA  Let's Connect: Guest Bio - Amanda Mosteller  Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller  Host Bio - Sophie Boler  Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler  Transcript: Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word. 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here. 00:00:21:05 - 00:00:41:19 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello, everybody, and thanks for joining us today. I'm here with Amanda Mosteller, director of Talent Development. She's in our MRA, Ohio division. But, Amanda, welcome back. I know you've been down on one show so far. We're glad to have you back for a second one. Thank you. Thank you for asking me to be back. 00:00:42:00 - 00:01:13:19 Unknown Oh, of course. But for those who don't know, don't know. Amanda, Amanda's area of expertise really aligns with areas of the talent development industry. She spends her time in developing learning programs, designing talent development strategy, driving business metrics assessed through their people, and individual success through coaching. So today, we're really going to be covering employee design learning. And when when we talked about doing this episode, Amanda, you were also middle of writing an article on this topic too. 00:01:13:20 - 00:01:52:09 Unknown So our listeners, to stay tuned for that release date and we'll get you the link. Absolutely. But kind of starting off a little overview here. Could you explain what employee design learning really means and how it differs from traditional approaches to professional development? Yes. Yes. So employee designed learning programs, put the employees in the driver's seat of creating the learning experience of the program that they themselves, their colleagues and future individuals that come into roles like theirs will experience in terms of their development. 00:01:52:11 - 00:02:28:12 Unknown So the difference here is we are leveraging the instructional designer to design and build everything. We are leveraging employees that have a passion for development and a desire to really shape what they, their colleagues and their future selves will be impacted by what they're going to go through. This is a knowledge base and a resource to tap that is really going to impact what everything looks like and really what we focus on. 00:02:28:14 - 00:03:01:12 Unknown So how it differs is instructional designers become more of a consultant and a coach to an employee individual or team, depending on how big the learning program's going to be. So traditionally instructional designers own and manage and go through all of this and they touch on smells and this feels different because you are leveraging different resources and you are positioning yourself as the designer in a different way. 00:03:01:14 - 00:03:28:04 Unknown So those are the ways that we see this differ in employee design learning versus traditional instructional design processes, because the employees play the largest role. And in creating this program or programs depending on how large it is. So in your experience, what are some of the key benefits of involving employees in the design of their own learning experience? 00:03:28:07 - 00:03:55:05 Unknown And how does this really impact their engagement and skill development? No, it's not a good one though. So, you know, traditionally instructional designers connect with key stakeholders. This is often leadership within the organization who's kind of out of touch with what the roles that are being impacted by the program actually experience in their day to day and where their true development needs are. 00:03:55:06 - 00:04:22:13 Unknown So when we flip this approach and we put employees in the design driver seat, you're going to get insights, you're going to get tailored programing. That's reality for what their lives truly are like. So the way we partner with stakeholders is we ask them, strategically, where are you trying to go? This is a common instructional designer question As you're developing a program, what are we trying to meet? 00:04:22:13 - 00:04:54:22 Unknown What are we trying to do? That's kind of where we end with the stakeholders for now. So we say, Excellent, thank you for giving me the strategic vision. We're identifying what skills, what knowledge, skills and abilities the individuals within your organization need to possess to get you to that vision. Put a pin in that. We'll be back. And then this program and this approach really says to the employees, Here's what we're trying to do as an organization, as a business. 00:04:54:22 - 00:05:16:19 Unknown Here's where we're trying to go. Here's what we need to be able to do to get us there. Where are you at? What are we doing today? What are some of the barriers that you typically don't get development in that you need? What are we missing? What skills are we not aware of? What areas don't we know that your roles need? 00:05:16:23 - 00:05:37:15 Unknown And this is different than just me because with this me, they give this conversation, they give you some advice, they give you some resources, and they're like, All right, call me if you need me. But the employee designed learning approach really says to the employees, okay, you don't get to tell me this and then walk away. You get to help me build all of this. 00:05:37:16 - 00:06:17:16 Unknown So the benefits are one, really connecting to reality of what the employees need, of what the roles truly need to know sometimes again, well intentioned leaders, still, there's a lot of things they're doing that are different. Our heads are lifted up. We're looking further ahead. We're not doing the day to day. So sometimes we think there are tools and resources that are readily available or that employees, the individual contributors are aware of or that they're coming in the door with and they're not. 00:06:17:20 - 00:06:47:01 Unknown So we have to really identify how do we make them aware, what can we leverage as well as what are they, what is coming in the door with truly look like and only the people doing the work that also have a passion for development, which is another way putting the employees in the driver's seat and creating this what we would call a learning committee or a design committee differ from potentially a meeting. 00:06:47:03 - 00:07:09:22 Unknown These are folks that have a passion for developing their colleagues and for impact, doing the experience that they might have to go through with the end of this anyway. And your traditional Smee might not be someone that has a passion for development, so they might give the instructional designer the bare minimum of the required time that they've been tapped for. 00:07:09:24 - 00:07:39:07 Unknown So employee designed learning, the folks that are part of it volunteer to be part of it. So that's an important differentiator as well. We are asking for volunteers to be part of a design committee. We're being upfront with time, expectations, goals. What these individuals are going to be doing. So they're aware of what they're committing to, but they have a desire to commit to it. 00:07:39:09 - 00:08:17:16 Unknown Whether that is experiential learning for themselves or growth strategies. For an individual who is doing a stretch assignment this way, they might be meeting their own personal professional goals while benefiting their team and their future new hires or future colleagues as well. So you're really utilizing an approach that puts employees not only in the driver's seat of designing, but employees with a different level of investment, with a different level of connection to the day to day work. 00:08:17:16 - 00:08:43:21 Unknown So they can truly tell us you want us to get there strategically. Here's what we need to be able to do. Here's the things you need to teach us about. Here's the resources we don't have today that we need to find. And then a group that says, I'm not just going to tell you this in one meeting and then have you come back to me designer with the rough outline and with the content and saying, Yep, you did it. 00:08:43:22 - 00:09:06:16 Unknown This is a group that's going to say, I'm going to help you pull together the outline. I'm going to help you pull together the content, I'm going to help identify great resources that we should make more intentional in raising my colleagues awareness, too. So this is a group that really, from start to finish, is a part of every step of the way. 00:09:06:17 - 00:09:28:16 Unknown They're not just interviewed a couple of times. They're knee deep in helping create, not doing it. I'm not saying they're going to make the PowerPoints and they're going to make the learner materials. The instructional designer is still doing that, but they are much more of a guide for these folks as to what the kind of right resources are. 00:09:28:16 - 00:10:02:08 Unknown And if we say we're meeting this objective, we should probably have some activities in there. What activities would make sense and help me figure out what they are. Help me design them. So it's really getting a deep investment and then when you actually run the program, not only do you have great buy in, but man, do you have a great crew of individuals who are going out to their colleagues to say no, when you come to this class, come in ready to learn, because it's going to be what we need because we helped build it? 00:10:02:10 - 00:10:32:12 Unknown Yeah. And I would imagine that this definitely, positively impacts engagement and skill development. But do you have any other thoughts on that and how it's really impacting engagement among employees? MM Yeah, you know, I used to be really proud of programs that I would build that I would think me and we hit the mark. This is the best daggone program I use all the new bells and whistles and everything my certification taught me to do. 00:10:32:12 - 00:11:04:02 Unknown I am so good. And then I would have folks come out of the program like that was fun. But what about bullet point? Bullet point, bullet point of things that I still can't do. Like, I can't do that. That's not reality to my day to day. Who you talk to when you come up with this. So, you know, when you're having folks that truly live the day to day help create something that the stakeholders sign off on. 00:11:04:02 - 00:11:33:02 Unknown Because as I mentioned, we tell the stakeholders to put a pin in it. Once we come up with the design plan and what it's going to look like and what the best delivery modality is and what the best cadence is and how long these things should be, we go back and the design committee, maybe one representative of the design committee or the committee themselves, again, depending on how large of a program you're building, can be a big committee. 00:11:33:02 - 00:12:00:04 Unknown It might be one or two people would go with you to the stakeholders, you being the instructional designer, to say, Here's where we're at, here's what we think is going to get the biggest bang. And then you have stakeholders saying, sure, I mean, tell the employees who do the work know if we don't want the program that you think will get us there, of course they're going to have stakeholder buy in to what you're recommending. 00:12:00:06 - 00:12:35:01 Unknown And then you have employees who see who are aligned with their leadership. So it's this whole full circle of everybody being on the same page for what this experience program, whole program, long term series might be, because you also run into as an instructional designer and my other ID folks out there will not in agreement with this where stakeholders will give you a list of goals and you'll set up all these objectives and they'll say, Yeah, we need you to get that done in one two hour virtual life. 00:12:35:03 - 00:13:13:07 Unknown You're like, Oh, I'm sorry. You just gave me enough objectives to meet in three full days. You want me to do it in 2 hours of heads up? Yeah, right. That would have been something to tell me ahead of time. So? So this really becomes collaborative in a different way where, again, the instructional designer is kind of facilitating and guiding and consulting and helping everyone to create a program that everybody is in agreeance that this is the way to get the needs met for our team members that will get us strategically to where we're trying to go. 00:13:13:12 - 00:13:42:21 Unknown So it's this full circle connection and a full circle by in because my peers are going to be more invested in coming to a class that I know my colleagues designed, not, you know, instructional designer and the VP who hasn't done this job in ten plus years themselves. So it it really creates buy in top down and everyone coming into the class is aware that this is a this was designed differently. 00:13:42:23 - 00:14:04:24 Unknown I've had experiences where means were tapped because they are the best at what they do, but they don't have that passion for learning. But also they too might be disconnected from the majority of their colleagues. And the bell curve there, the extreme high potential, and we're ready to move them on to the next role. And so they should be the person you're talking to. 00:14:05:01 - 00:14:58:21 Unknown And while their colleagues might be really motivated by excuse me, that individual and where they're going, the strategies that individual might have been recommending, either we aren't really going to replicate or again, might not be realistic to the majority of the group's day to day. So it's a balancing act as a designer, as an instructional designer to put in best practices, effective strategies, encourage people to stretch themselves while not being so unrealistic that the program truly missed and the best way to ensure alignment all around, and that the program isn't going to miss the mark is by involving more employees that have a desire, that have a goal, and that have a realistic view of 00:14:58:21 - 00:15:40:22 Unknown what the role is really like. Absolutely. That's a great point. You know that we love stories on the podcast, we love examples and all of that good stuff. So do you have any success stories or just any examples of what other organizations are doing to implementing employee design learning? Yeah. So we have a member organization right now who has a big strategic plan and they actually have an employee learning committee and they're working on creating career passing strategies and design programs to support employees along the way. 00:15:40:22 - 00:16:03:14 Unknown So we have net new employees and we have employees that have been doing that role for a while and employees that have transitioned into other roles so they know where the gaps were and that transition and they know what resources might have been helpful. And so they're in the midst of this right now. I'm very excited to see where this goes for them. 00:16:03:14 - 00:16:27:05 Unknown It's on their strategic initiative, which again is that leader buy in Leader said Strategically we recognize we need some supports along the career path, not just a math outline of a career path for folks. And then they empowered their h.r. Leadership team to pull together a committee of volunteer employees. So we have a group doing it right now. 00:16:27:05 - 00:17:01:05 Unknown I'll be excited to see where that goes. And then i helped an organization a couple of years ago, which was a huge success story. This is very proud of this one. But it was a sales organization, an organization of its sales individuals who have been doing it for a very long time. And so one of the things I would run into with their leadership was, you know, my sales team has been selling this stuff for a really long time. 00:17:01:10 - 00:17:37:12 Unknown There's nothing they need to know. And I was like, I wonder how they think about that. So I had been tasked with identifying a progressive learning program. The plan was for new employees coming into the organization to have a up to three year progressive plan to get from kind of a lead qualifier role up to account executive. And they wanted they had to use means. 00:17:37:14 - 00:17:58:00 Unknown The problem was these were there to me every time they wanted me to do a learning thing. So we had two very burned out means who did not have a passion for development. They liked to share their expertise. They liked to be asked what do they think would work? They could spare 20 minutes for me because they were out doing the thing. 00:17:58:00 - 00:18:31:02 Unknown They liked doing the work so well intentioned people, but not with the desires that I needed. I needed people that could give me time. Because when you're talking about a three year development progressive development strategy from folks that do lead qualification and within three years they have all the tools and resources and knowledge and experience that they need to be account executives and replace folks that have been doing it for 20 plus years. 00:18:31:04 - 00:18:54:04 Unknown I need more than 15 minutes of your time. So what I ended up doing was saying, can you let me you know, this is a big investment. Three years is a big investment. That also should mean time. Give me time to create something that's going to work. And let me tap on volunteers that are committed to seeing this through. 00:18:54:06 - 00:19:18:07 Unknown And they did. They were, well, invest recognizing what they needed was the right development program. So they gave me the green light, said, Please go do this. And I had volunteers. We were multi, we were in five countries. So I had volunteers from each country ready to help because they also could we wanted to create a universal program. 00:19:18:07 - 00:19:48:04 Unknown So we didn't want it to be country specific and we wanted it to be multifaceted in the delivery modalities for the program. But we knew that, you know, what worked in Canada might be different than what worked in Scotland, which might be different than what worked in the Hawaii market. So we were all over the place in terms of expertise and experience, which was excellent because we could pull some things that folks were like, Well, I think that could work anywhere. 00:19:48:04 - 00:20:20:07 Unknown Let's try that. So I had a big volunteer base, which was good because a three year program is a lot of different tools you're putting into place, right? So what we ended up doing was utilizing a sales competency model and we identified the new account acquisition Csa's knowledge, skills and abilities for that competency and account retention and growth for that competency plus some foundational everyone. 00:20:20:07 - 00:20:59:02 Unknown Because remember, we're looking at folks that are coming in that might be newer to the sales career field, being able to be account executives for enterprise sized companies with big I.T. things. So talking a lot of skills that you need. And so we were able to come up with an assessment strategy. What we did was we had all existing employees, all existing individuals in the role across all five countries take the assessment self-identifying where they felt they were strong and where they felt they could use some additional learning. 00:20:59:04 - 00:21:22:15 Unknown Then we took all the universal what we saw trending across all five, and we said that is your targeted program. And we just identified kind of what was foundational was is within the first year. What is new account acquisition is in the second year what's account retention and growth. Higher level was in the third year. That was a recommendation the learning committee made. 00:21:22:17 - 00:21:53:10 Unknown I wouldn't know. So I was listening to them and then we identified which things seemed to have higher numbers of individuals that have even been doing it for over 20 years, right, identifying they wanted help and said, okay, so these are intentional interactive programs versus capabilities that, you know, we didn't have a trend of a lot of folks saying they might want help in it, that we said, okay, we needed a separate group. 00:21:53:10 - 00:22:16:11 Unknown We had subcommittees within our big learning committee and we had a separate group of volunteers that were just pulling resources and we had a resource bank targeted by which capability it would fill. And we had recommended books and we had podcasts that we podcast look at that. We encourage folks to listen to and articles and blogs that they encouraged folks to subscribe to. 00:22:16:11 - 00:22:42:15 Unknown So a real resource bank for some of the less universal areas that folks were saying they needed assistance and for the foundational things that everybody was saying they needed assistance. We said there's your there's your first year development program right there. Let's build classes around this. So once we got that information, we were able to break and do even do additional volunteers. 00:22:42:15 - 00:23:10:04 Unknown Some volunteers were like, I'm tapped out. I have a big project coming. I got to step off. And we had new people going, Oh, you know what? I actually would love to help design a program to build those capabilities. So we had some swapping going on and we were able to have these folks who were invigorated by this whole idea, really helping me create these great classes and these great things. 00:23:10:04 - 00:23:28:17 Unknown And then I as the designer, right, I pulled all the materials together with them and we would have touch basis where I would say, does this exercise, is this what you were thinking? Because they were telling me what they were thinking, what they would think could work, and I would just be like, Did I structure it right? Did I explain it correctly? 00:23:28:19 - 00:23:55:16 Unknown Are these the scenarios that you're thinking? So I was doing all of the behind the scenes creation of it and getting their signoff and their signoff throughout the way we met with the senior leadership stakeholders and we would get their signoff. So it became very collaborative all over the place program that my understanding I did this over three years ago is still running today. 00:23:55:18 - 00:24:39:01 Unknown And one of the great things about the existing team members that weren't new in this career path funnel was we would we once we were done, we created the cadence of the live classes and we made sure to communicate the resources for everybody else of those things, like the podcast, the books, the blogs and things like that. And what we found was we had existing individuals who had identified that something might be an area that they could use, like voluntarily signing up for these classes that they had said they needed assistance and their colleagues had created. 00:24:39:03 - 00:25:10:00 Unknown And then these experts who are and not that they weren't experts, I don't need to do air quotes as if they weren't these were individuals who really knew what they were doing. But the perception originally from leadership, right, was they've been doing it for 20 years. They don't need help voluntarily taking time out of their sales day, which for any sales folks listening, you now that takes a lot to step away from your sales week and attend a class that their colleagues helped design. 00:25:10:00 - 00:25:38:13 Unknown So it was it was really cool and I really liked it and it was my first time really pushing for senior leadership to have faith in their team members abilities to do this, have faith that team members that are wanting to do this are still committed to their quotas, which they were all still making because it wasn't to get out of doing their stuff. 00:25:38:13 - 00:26:05:21 Unknown That was part of the expectation that we had set. You still have to meet your sales quotas. That's still an expectation. So know that this decision isn't as an excuse me, isn't an excuse to get away for meeting your sales quotas. So we had folks that that had a passion and a desire to help. And that's the outcome you get when you have folks that really want to help build something great for their colleagues and for the next generation that will come in to these roles when they leave. 00:26:05:23 - 00:26:35:01 Unknown And I love those examples and that's great to hear. Kind of like the step by step process that you followed and implemented to kind of create that successful employee design learning approach for this company. And it's cool to hear that it's still running today and still sound successful. So kudos to you. The length, the fear designers have when they create something and then they walk away and then they find out like a year later, Oh yeah, that ran twice. 00:26:35:01 - 00:27:08:04 Unknown And then we had a new initiative take over. It's like it crushes your soul. Chilling. I put so much time into that. So to hear that it's still running is is very makes them very happy and well, you've mentioned we've kind of talked about how instructional design is really a crucial aspect of creating effective learning experiences. So how does involving employees in the design process influencing structural instructional design decisions for these professional development programs? 00:27:08:10 - 00:27:33:20 Unknown Yes, good question. The designer doesn't take a backseat, and I think that's an important clarifier to make. You're putting on a different hat for quite a bit of time. Your consulting. So you're helping. I mean, these these are individuals that very likely don't have a large adult learning theory knowledge base. So that's part of how you're helping them understand. 00:27:33:20 - 00:28:05:14 Unknown Sometimes folks are very lecture driven and you're like, Oh, or let's try something else. And sometimes folks want to spoon think things, spoon feed, excuse me. And so helping them understand. So we got to make sure to recognize the expertise in the room and folks have their own ideas. And so the instructional designer puts on the consultant hat for quite a bit because we also want to help educate the learning Committee on these important facets, too. 00:28:05:14 - 00:28:37:18 Unknown We help them understand when you're saying what I mean. I did a lot of work with this sales team just explaining Bloom's taxonomy objective writing and identifying. Okay, when you say that phrase, what that means is you're looking for this certain level, like a level three knowledge gain. And to do that, it means we need to put exercises in there because we need to see them do it, or you're highlighting something that means we're going to need to put in a three month touch base to check and see if they've transferred it, which is great. 00:28:37:18 - 00:29:00:15 Unknown I'm not saying we don't do it, we're just helping really a lot of educating on the field to this learning employee learning committee. So that's one thing the designer does. That is sometimes designers are like, it's faster If I do it myself, I'm like, No, you're right. You are absolutely right, because you don't have to explain all of this stuff. 00:29:00:15 - 00:29:26:04 Unknown But depending on how big the program is, it might be helpful to have a group. And again, that goes to that buy in. And that at the end, is everybody as excited about it as you are? And this strategy is kind of an ounce of prevention approach. Take some time to educate and see the world after. So that's that's one thing the designer does differently. 00:29:26:06 - 00:30:03:07 Unknown But again, the designer is still ultimately building the staff. I don't send PowerPoint templates to the employee committee of a certain class. Agha And let me see what you build. You're still doing the creation, so there's still that in between. But they're helping nail down the outline again. Nail down those exercises, and you step in with that knowledge and that expertise and help make sure creativity doesn't run wild to where we're getting a way of that end goal vision, which is the strategy we're trying to help the organization achieve. 00:30:03:13 - 00:30:25:21 Unknown So we do sometimes I had some zany ideas come up from that sales group that I was like, That sounds cool. Well, I'm not quite sure what that has to do with breaking into new markets, so can we tie that together for me? And if they couldn't, I was like, then let's let's table that idea for some future, just for fun training. 00:30:25:21 - 00:30:52:23 Unknown I'm not sure what we're going to do with that, but I had a hand to kind of steer the ship a lot. Yes. And what kind of talking about now, as we wrap up here, how this fits into the company's goals and strategy overall, what strategies are methods can organizations adopt to ensure that employee design learning programs align with the company's overall goals and objectives? 00:30:53:00 - 00:31:26:13 Unknown You're looking to do something like this for more future forward, and what's funny is having a group of sales leaders think about where they want to be three years from now because it, you know, it takes six, depending on, again, how big the program it could be a one time new hire class and you're just grabbing you're learning committee of folks that are on their second year of employment to help design it because you want to think as a designer strategically who are the right people for the learning committee. 00:31:26:13 - 00:31:47:17 Unknown It might not be a job role. It might be a length of time, it might be we talked in our Networking groups podcast about, you know, first year managers. So maybe that group that's now in their second year, if you're trying to figure out how to successfully own your role at this organization, you want to build a class or a program around that. 00:31:47:19 - 00:32:14:01 Unknown You're NAB and folks that are in their second year to find out what worked, what didn't, how did we help, where did we miss, what would you train folks? And so really thinking through strategically who your pool of people are and how you would want to use them for what you're thinking. But I encourage organizations think 2 to 3 years ahead, where are you trying to go? 00:32:14:03 - 00:32:46:11 Unknown Because we need to start focusing now on building the skills and capabilities to make sure your organization's talent pool has what it needs to get you there. You can't constantly think, Well, we'll hire for that. You have talent right now that is guaranteed, amazing and guaranteed ready for continuing to grow. We know engagement things. Talk about how now folks are looking to their employer to continue their career development. 00:32:46:11 - 00:33:11:00 Unknown They're not looking to do it on their own. They're looking to, you to do it for them, right? So thinking through those things is really beneficial. Asking a group of sales leaders where they think they'll be in three years, I did not know I would get met with such phases of like, I don't know. And I was like, Well, well, are we going to be selling calves or are we still going to be selling, You know, cloud based IT services? 00:33:11:00 - 00:33:32:08 Unknown Can we at least figure that out? Right. So it really it was funny. But, you know, I think strategically organizations need to look long term. Where are we trying to go as an organization? Which groups are going to help us get there and what do they need to be able to do? Because because this is an investment of employee time. 00:33:32:08 - 00:33:53:15 Unknown You don't want it to be a one and done. You want to have them help build something that scalable that's replicable, that's going to be around for a few years because it's part of getting you to where you're trying to go, and then also helping the employees understand it will continue to evolve as where we're going. We'll continue to evolve. 00:33:53:15 - 00:34:16:05 Unknown We create these three year strategies as business leaders, and once you get there, it's not like, all right, high five, we can coast now. It's all right now. What's the next one? What's the next strategy? What's the next one? So something like this, since it takes time, investment is is for those types of of big kind of what do we need to empower our employees with to get us where we need to go? 00:34:16:07 - 00:34:46:03 Unknown Yeah, absolutely. All these as all the time we have today, unfortunately. But we're coming back with a part two on this topic. So excited about that. But thanks for all the great information you share. I think we can all walk away with some great ideas around implementing employee design, learning experiences to our listeners. If you liked our chat and topic today, I'd urge you to comment something new you learned or anything that you want to add on to this conversation. 00:34:46:03 - 00:35:10:02 Unknown Any questions or any new things you're saying here? Don't forget to share this episode and of course, consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already. We've got all the resources you need in the show notes below, including resources on this topic. Otherwise, thanks for tuning into Mary and don't forget to come back for part two of this episode and we will see you next week. 00:35:10:04 - 00:35:31:06 Unknown And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect for more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform. And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes drive so you don't miss out. Thanks. Tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.  

Lawyers who want to stay on top of their marketing and technology game, have you heard these three myths about marketing strategies, podcasts, and mastermind events for law firms in the digital age? The truth might surprise you! On this episode of Cut to the Chase: Podcast, Ken Hardison is here to debunk these misconceptions and help you stay ahead of the curve. Ken, a seasoned attorney turned legal marketing guru has been helping fellow lawyers thrive for over 30 years. Having built and sold two highly successful law firms, Ken is known as "The Millionaire Maker."  He now runs PILMMA (Powerful Innovative Legal Marketing & Management Association), where he shares his business strategies, marketing tips and technology wisdom with other attorneys.  Ken's deep expertise, combined with his passion for teaching, makes him an ideal guest to discuss the importance of marketing strategies and innovative business practices to help lawyers ahead in today's fast-paced digital world. In this episode, you will be able to: Discover the critical role of digital marketing strategies for law firms in today's connected world. Understand the transformative impact of artificial intelligence in the legal industry and what it means for the future. Recognize the advantages of attending game-changing conferences like PILMA for professional growth in the legal sector. Learn about the potential rewards of diversification in the legal industry through investments in mass torts. Important resources mentioned in this episode: Cancel all your scheduled hearings and meetings from May 16-18 and attend the Pilma Summit instead. Join Pilmma's Gold Membership program to access a list serve where you can talk to lawyers about vendors, refer cases, and ask questions. Take advantage of Pilmma's Mastermind program where lawyers can share what's working and what's not working in their practice and learn from each other. Learn about Google reviews, LSAs, direct mail, SEO provider accountability, and other marketing strategies to grow your practice through Pilmma's programs. Attend Cornell University's course on AI to learn how to effectively use it in your business. Meet the guest: Introducing Ken Hardison, a seasoned attorney turned legal marketing guru who has been helping fellow lawyers thrive for over 30 years. Having built and sold two highly successful law firms, Ken is known as "The Millionaire Maker." He now runs PILMMA (Powerful Innovative Legal Marketing & Management Association), where he shares his marketing and technology wisdom with other attorneys. Ken's deep expertise, combined with his passion for teaching, makes him an ideal guest to discuss the importance of marketing strategies and staying ahead in today's fast-paced digital world. Social Links to Follow Ken and PILMMA: https://www.facebook.com/PILMMA/ https://www.instagram.com/pilmma/https://www.pilmma.org/summit/

Welcome to episode 175 of the Grow Your Law Firm podcast, hosted by Ken Hardison. In this episode, Ken sits down to talk about the Focus and Discipline you need to grow your Law Firm.   Ken is the Founder of PILMMA, Personal Injury Lawyers Marketing and Management Association, dedicated to helping lawyers learn the critical strategies to success. As a trusted advisor, consultant, coach, and Mastermind mentor, Ken has coached lawyers to greater success time and time again. With a passion and deep understanding of both grassroots and cutting-edge online legal marketing strategies, Ken is committed to helping lawyers experience greater levels of financial success, freedom, and personal satisfaction – the kind that comes from building an ethical and exceptional law practice.  Focusing on the practical and the proven rather than the cerebral, Ken guides lawyers through the steps needed to build the law practice many lawyers have only dreamed possible.     What you'll learn about in this episode: Why some Attorney's struggle to take the time off work How to succeed in growing your Law Firm Focusing and executing on ONE goal What GRIT means and how to get GRIT Tips for increasing your Focus & Discipline at work   Resources:  PILMMA's Super Summit: https://www.pilmma.org/summit/ The Mastermind Effect: https://www.pilmma.org/the-mastermind-effect/ PILMMA's Free Resources: https://www.pilmma.org/resources/ PILMMA Join Page: https://www.pilmma.org/mastermind/