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What makes a character so compelling that readers will forgive almost anything about the plot? How do you move beyond vague flaws and generic descriptions to create people who feel pulled from real life? In this solo episode, I share 15 actionable tips for writing deep characters, curated from past interviews on the podcast. In the intro, thoughts from London Book Fair [Instagram reel @jfpennauthor; Publishing Perspectives; Audible; Spotify]; Insights from a 7-figure author business [BookBub]. This show is supported by my Patrons. Join my Community and get articles, discounts, and extra audio and video tutorials on writing craft, author business, and AI tools, at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn This episode has been created from previous episodes of The Creative Penn Podcast, curated by Joanna Penn, as well as chapters from How to Write a Novel: From Idea to Book. Links to the individual episodes are included in the transcript below. In this episode: Master the ‘Believe, Care, Invest' trifecta, how to hook readers on the very first page Define the Dramatic Question: Who is your character when the chips are down? Absolute specificity. Why “she's controlling” isn't good enough Understand the Heroine's Journey, strength through connection, not solo action Use ‘Metaphor Families' to anchor dialogue and give every character a distinctive voice Find the Diagnostic Detail, the moments that prove a character is real Writing pain onto the page without writing memoir Write diverse characters as real people, not stereotypes or plot devices Give your protagonist a morally neutral ‘hero' status. Compelling beats likeable. Build vibrant side characters for series longevity and spin-off potential Use voice as a rhythmic tool Link character and plot until they're inseparable Why discovery writers can write out of order and still build deep character Find the sensory details that make characters live and breathe More help with how to write fiction here, or in my book, How to Write a Novel. Writing Characters: 15 Tips for Writing Deep Character in Your Fiction In today's episode, I'm sharing fifteen tips for writing deep characters, synthesised from some of the most insightful interviews on The Creative Penn Podcast over the past few years, combined with what I've learned across more than forty books of my own. I'll be referencing episodes with Matt Bird, Will Storr, Gail Carriger, Barbara Nickless, and Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer. I'll also draw on my own book, How to Write a Novel, which covers these fundamentals in detail. Whether you're writing your first novel or your fiftieth, whether you're a plotter or a discovery writer like me, these tips will help you create characters that readers believe in, care about, and invest in—and keep coming back for more. Let's get into it. 1. Master the ‘Believe, Care, Invest' Trifecta When I spoke with Matt Bird on episode 624, he laid out the three things you need to achieve on the very first page of your book or in the first ten minutes of a film. He calls it “Believe, Care, and Invest.” First, the reader must believe the character is a real person, somehow proving they are not a cardboard imitation of a human being, not just a generic type walking through a generic plot. Second, the reader must care about the character's circumstances. And third, the reader must invest in the character's ability to solve the story's central problem. Matt used The Hunger Games as his primary example, and it's brilliant. On the very first page, we believe Katniss's voice. Suzanne Collins writes in first person with a staccato rhythm—lots of periods, short declarative sentences—that immediately grounds us in a survivalist mentality. We care because Katniss is starving. She's protecting her little sister. And we invest because she is out there bow hunting, which Matt pointed out is one of the most badass things a character can do. She even kills a lynx two pages in and sells the pelt. We invest in her resourcefulness and grit before the plot has even begun. Matt was very clear that this has nothing to do with the character being “likable.” He said his subtitle, Writing a Hero Anyone Will Love, doesn't mean the character has to be a good person. He described “hero” as both gender-neutral and morally neutral. A hero can be totally evil or totally good. What matters is that we believe, care, and invest. He demonstrated this beautifully by breaking down the first ten minutes of WeCrashed, where the characters of Adam and Rebekah Neumann are absolutely not likable, but we are completely hooked. Adam steals his neighbour's Chinese food through a carefully orchestrated con involving an imaginary beer. It's not admirable behaviour, but the tradecraft involved, as Matt put it—using a term from spy movies—makes us invest in him. We see a character trying to solve the big problem of his life, which is that he's poor and wants to be rich, and we want to see if he can pull it off. Actionable step: Go to the first page of your current work in progress. Does it achieve all three? Does the reader believe this is a real person with a distinctive voice? Do they care about the character's circumstances? And do they invest in the character's ability to handle what's coming? If even one of those three is missing, that's your revision priority. 2. Define the Dramatic Question: Who Are They Really? Will Storr, author of The Science of Storytelling, came on episode 490 and gave one of the most powerful frameworks I've ever heard for character-driven fiction. He explained that the human brain evolved language primarily to swap social information—in other words, to gossip. We are wired to monitor other people, to ask the question: who is this person when the chips are down? That's what Will calls the Dramatic Question, and it's what he believes lies at the heart of all compelling storytelling. It's not a question about plot. It's a question about the character's soul. And every scene in your novel should force the character to answer it. His example of Lawrence of Arabia is unforgettable. The Dramatic Question for the entire film is: who are you, Lawrence? Are you ordinary or are you extraordinary? At the beginning, Lawrence is a cocky, rebellious young soldier who believes his rebelliousness makes him superior. Every iconic scene in that three-hour film tests that belief. Sometimes Lawrence acts as though he truly is extraordinary—leading the Arabs into battle, being hailed as a god—and sometimes the world strips him bare and he sees himself as ordinary. Because it's a tragedy, he never overcomes his flaw. He doubles down on his belief that he's extraordinary until he becomes monstrous, culminating in that iconic scene where he lifts a bloody dagger and sees his own reflection with horror. Will also used Jaws to demonstrate how this works in a pure action thriller. Brody's dramatic question is simple: are you going to be old Brody who is terrified of the water, or new Brody who can overcome that fear? Every scene where the shark appears is really asking that question. And the last moment of the film isn't the shark blowing up. It's Brody swimming back through the water, saying he used to be scared of the water and he can't imagine why. Actionable step: Write down the Dramatic Question for your protagonist in a single sentence. Is it “Are you ordinary or extraordinary?” or “Are you brave enough to love again?” or “Will you sacrifice your principles for survival?” If you can't answer this with specificity, your character might still be a sketch rather than a person. 3. Get rid of Vague Flaws, and use Absolute Specificity This was one of Will Storr's most important points. He said that vague thinking about characters is really the enemy. When he teaches workshops and asks writers to describe their character's flaw, most of them say something like “they're very controlling.” And Will's response is: that's not good enough. Everyone is controlling. How are they controlling? What's the specific mechanism? He gave the example of a profile he read of Theresa May during the UK's Brexit chaos. Someone who knew her said that Theresa May's problem was that she always thinks she's the only adult in every room she goes into. Will said that stopped him in his tracks because it's so precise. If you define a character with that level of specificity, you can take them and put them in any genre, any situation—a spaceship, a Victorian drawing room, a school playground—and you will know exactly how they're going to behave. The same applies to Arthur Miller's Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman, as Will described it: a man who believes absolutely in capitalistic success and the idea that when you die, you're going to be weighed on a scale, just as God weighs you for sin, but now you're weighed for success. That's not a vague flaw. That's a worldview you can drop into any story and watch it combust. Will made another counterintuitive point that I found really valuable: writers often think that piling on multiple traits will create a complex character, but the opposite is true. Starting with one highly specific flaw and running it through the demands of a relentless plot is what generates complexity. You end up with a far more nuanced, original character than if you'd started with a laundry list of vague attributes. Actionable step: Take your protagonist's flaw and pressure-test it. Is it specific enough that you could place this character in any situation and predict their behaviour? If you're stuck at “she's stubborn” or “he's insecure,” keep pushing. What kind of stubborn? What kind of insecure? Find the diagnostic sentence—the Theresa May level of precision. 4. Understand the Heroine's Journey: Strength Through Connection Gail Carriger came on episode 550 to discuss her nonfiction book, The Heroine's Journey, and it completely reframed how I think about some of my own fiction. Gail explained that the core difference between the Hero's Journey and the Heroine's Journey comes down to how strength and victory are defined. The Hero's Journey is about strength through solo action. The hero must be continually isolated to get stronger. He goes out of civilisation, faces strife alone, and achieves victory through physical prowess and self-actualisation. The Heroine's Journey is the opposite. The heroine achieves her goals by activating a network. She's a delegator, a general. She identifies where she can't do something alone, finds the people who can help, and portions out the work for mutual gain. Gail put it simply: the heroine is very good at asking for help, which our culture tends to devalue but which is actually a powerful form of strength. Crucially, Gail stressed that gender is irrelevant to which journey you're writing. Her go-to examples are striking: the recent Wonder Woman film is practically a beat-for-beat hero's journey—Gilgamesh on screen, as Gail described it. Meanwhile, Harry Potter, both the first book and the series as a whole, is a classic heroine's journey. Harry's power comes from his network—Dumbledore's Army, the Order of the Phoenix, his friendships with Ron and Hermione. He doesn't defeat Voldemort alone. He defeats Voldemort because of love and connection. This distinction has real practical consequences for writers. If you're writing a hero's journey and you hit writer's block, Gail said, the solution is usually to isolate your hero further and pile on more strife. But if you're writing a heroine's journey, the solution is probably to throw a new character into the scene—someone who has advice to offer or a skill the heroine lacks. The actual solutions to writer's block are different depending on which narrative you're writing. As I reflected on my own work, I realised that my ARKANE thriller protagonist, Morgan Sierra, follows a hero's journey—she's a solo operative, a lone wolf like Jack Reacher or James Bond. But my Mapwalker fantasy series follows a heroine's journey, with Sienna and her group of friends working together. I hadn't consciously chosen those paths; the stories led me there. But understanding the framework helps me write more intentionally now. Actionable step: Identify which journey your protagonist is on. Does your character gain strength by being alone (hero) or by building connections (heroine)? This will inform every plot decision you make, from how they face obstacles to how your story ends. 5. Use ‘Metaphor Families' to Anchor Dialogue and Voice One of the most practical techniques Matt Bird shared on episode 624 is the idea of assigning each character a “metaphor family”—a specific well of language that they draw from. This gives each character a distinctive voice that goes beyond accent or dialect. Matt explained how in The Wire, one of the most beloved TV shows of all time, every character has a different metaphor family. What struck him was that Omar, this iconic character, never utters a single curse word in the entire series. His metaphor family is pirate. He talks about parlays, uses language that feels like it belongs in Pirates of the Caribbean, and it creates this incredible ironic counterpoint against his urban setting. It tells us immediately that this is a character who sees himself in a tradition of people that doesn't match his immediate surroundings. Matt also referenced the UK version of The Office, where Gareth works at a paper company but aspires to the military. So all of his language is drawn from a military metaphor family. He doesn't talk about filing and photocopying; he talks about tactics and discipline and being on the front line. This tells us that the character has a life and dreams beyond the immediate scene—and it's the gap between aspiration and reality that makes him both funny and believable. He pointed out that a metaphor family sometimes comes from a character's background, but it's often more interesting when it comes from their aspirations. What does your character want to be? What world do they fantasise about inhabiting? That's where their language should come from. In Star Wars, Obi-Wan Kenobi is a spiritual hermit, but his metaphor family is military. He uses the language of generals and commanders, and that ironic counterpoint is part of what makes him feel so rich. Actionable step: Assign each of your main characters a metaphor family. It could be based on their job, their background, or—more interestingly—their secret aspirations. Then go through your dialogue and make sure each character is consistently drawing from that well of language. If two characters sound the same when you strip away the dialogue tags, this is the fix. 6. Find the Diagnostic Detail: The Diagonal Toast Avoid clichéd character tags—the random scar, the eye patch, the mysterious limp—unless they serve a deep narrative purpose. Matt Bird on episode 624 was very funny about this: he pointed out that Nick Fury, Odin, and eventually Thor all have eye patches in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Eye patches are done, he said. You cannot do eye patches anymore. Instead, look for what I'm calling the “diagonal toast” detail, after a scene Matt described from Captain Marvel. In the film, Captain Marvel is trying to determine whether Nick Fury is who he says he is. She asks him to prove he isn't a shapeshifting alien. Fury shares biographical details—his history, his mother—but then she pushes further and says, name one more thing you couldn't possibly have made up about yourself. And Fury says: if toast is cut diagonally, I can't eat it. Matt said that detail is gold for a writer because it feels pulled from a real life. You can pull it from your own life and gift it to your characters, and the reader can tell it's not manufactured. He gave another example from The Sopranos: Tony Soprano's mother won't answer the phone after dark. The show's creator, David Chase, confirmed on the DVD commentary that this came from his own mother, who genuinely would not answer the phone after dark and couldn't explain why. Matt's practical advice was to keep a journal. Write down the strange, specific things that people do or say. Mine your own life for those hyper-specific details. You just need one per book. In my own writing, I've used this approach. In my ARKANE thrillers, my character Morgan Sierra has always been Angelina Jolie in my mind—specifically Jolie in Lara Croft or Mr and Mrs Smith. And Blake Daniel in my crime thriller series was based on Jesse Williams from Grey's Anatomy. I paste pictures of actors into my Scrivener projects. It helps with visuals, but also with the sense of the character, their energy and physicality. But visual details only take you so far. It's the behavioural quirks—the diagonal toast moments—that make a character feel genuinely alive. That said, physical character tags can work brilliantly when they serve the story. As I discuss in How to Write a Novel, Robert Galbraith's Cormoran Strike is an amputee, and his pain and the physical challenges of his prosthesis are a key part of every story—it's not a cosmetic detail, it's woven into the action and the character's psychology. My character Blake Daniel always wears gloves to cover the scars on his hands, which provides an angle into his wounded past as well as a visual cue for the reader. And of course, Harry Potter's lightning-shaped scar isn't just a mark—it's a direct connection to his nemesis and the mythology of the entire series. The rule of thumb is: if the tag tells us something about the character's interior life or connects to the plot, it's earning its place. If it's just there to make the character visually distinctive, it's probably a crutch. Game of Thrones takes character tags further with the family houses, each with their own mottos and sigils. The Starks say “Winter is coming” and their sigil is a dire wolf. Those aren't just labels—they're worldview made visible. Actionable step: Start a “diagonal toast” notebook. Every time you notice something strange and specific about someone's behaviour—something that feels too real to be made up—write it down. Then gift it to a character who needs more texture. 7. Displace Your Own Trauma into the Work Barbara Nickless shared something deeply personal on episode 732 that fundamentally changed how I think about putting pain onto the page. While starting At First Light, the first book in her Dr. Evan Wilding series, she lost her son to epilepsy—something called SUDEP, Sudden Unexplained Death in Epilepsy. One day he was there, and the next day he was gone. Barbara said that writing helped her cope with the trauma, that doing a deep dive into Old English literature and the Viking Age for the book's research became a lifeline. But here's what's important: she didn't give Dr. Evan Wilding her exact trauma. Evan Wilding is four feet five inches, and Barbara described how he has to walk through a world that won't adjust to him. That's its own form of learning to cope when circumstances are beyond your control. She displaced her genuine grief into the character's different but parallel struggle. When I asked her about the difference between writing for therapy and writing for an audience, she drew on her experience teaching creative writing to veterans through a collaboration between the US Department of Defense and the National Endowment for the Arts. She said she's found that she can pour her heartache into her characters and process it through them, even when writing professionally, and that the genuine emotion is what touches readers. We've all been through our own losses and griefs, so seeing how a character copes can be deeply meaningful. I've always found that putting my own pain onto the page is the most direct way to connect with a reader's soul. My character Morgan Sierra's musings on religion and the supernatural are often my own. Her restlessness, her fascination with the darker edges of faith—those come from me. But her Krav Maga fighting skills and her ability to kill the bad guys are definitely her own. That gap between what's mine and what's hers is where the fiction lives. Barbara also said something on that episode that I wrote down and stuck on my wall. She said the act of producing itself is a balm to the soul. I've been thinking about that ever since. On my own wall, I have “Measure your life by what you create.” Different words, same truth. Actionable step: If you're carrying something heavy—grief, anger, fear, regret—consider how you might displace it into a character's different but emotionally parallel struggle. Don't copy your exact situation; transform it. The emotion will be genuine, and the reader will feel it. 8. Write Diverse Characters as Real People When I spoke with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer on episode 673—Sarah is Choctaw and a historical fiction author honoured by the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian—she offered a perspective that every fiction writer needs to hear. The key message was to move away from stereotypes. Don't write your American Indian character as the “Wise Guide” who exists solely to dispense mystic wisdom to the white protagonist. Don't limit diverse characters to historical settings, as though they only exist in the past. Place them in normal, contemporary roles. Your spaceship captain, your forensic scientist, your small-town baker—any of them can be American Indian, or Nigerian, or Japanese, and their heritage should be a lived-in part of their identity, not the sole reason they exist in the story. I write international thrillers and dark fantasy, and my fiction is populated with characters from all over the world. I have a multi-cultural family and I've lived in many places and travelled widely, so I've met, worked with, and had relationships with people from different cultures. I find story ideas through travel, and if I set my books in a certain place, then the story is naturally populated with the people who live there. As I discuss in my book, How to Write a Novel, the world is a diverse place, so your fiction needs to be populated with all kinds of people. If I only populated my fiction with characters like me, they would be boring novels. There are many dimensions of difference—race, nationality, sex, age, body type, ability, religion, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, class, culture, education level—and even then, don't assume that similar types of people think the same way. Some authors worry they will make mistakes. We live in a time of outrage, and some authors have been criticised for writing outside their own experience. So is it too dangerous to try? Of course not. The media amplifies outliers, and most authors include diverse characters in every book without causing offence because they work hard to get it right. It's about awareness, research, and intent. Actionable step: Audit the cast of your current work in progress. Have you written a mono-cultural perspective for all of them? If so, consider who could bring a different background, perspective, or set of cultural specifics to the story. Not as a token addition, but as a real person with a real life. 9. Respect Tribal and Cultural Specificity Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer on episode 673 was emphatic about one thing: never treat diverse groups as monolithic. If you're writing a Native American character, you must research the specific nation. Choctaw is not Navajo, just as British is not French. Sarah described the distinct cultural markers of the Choctaw people—the diamond pattern you'll see on traditional shirts and dresses, which represents the diamondback rattlesnake. They have distinct dances and songs. She said that if she saw someone in traditional dress at a distance, she would know whether they were Choctaw based on what they were wearing. She encouraged writers who want to write specifically about a nation to get to know those people. Go to events, go to a powwow, learn about the individual culture. She noted that a big misconception is that American Indians exist only in the past—she stressed that they are still here, still living their cultures, and fiction should reflect that present reality. I took a similar approach when writing Destroyer of Worlds, which is set mostly in India. I read books about Hindu myth, watched documentaries about the sadhus, and had one of my Indian readers from Mumbai check my cultural references. For Risen Gods, set in New Zealand with a young Maori protagonist, I studied books about Maori mythology and fiction by Maori authors, and had a male Maori reader check for cultural issues. Research is simply an act of empathy. The practical takeaway is this: if you're going to include a character from a specific cultural background, do the work. Use specific cultural details rather than generic signifiers. Sarah talked about how even she fell into stereotypes when she was first writing, until her mother pointed them out. If someone from within a culture can fall into those traps, the rest of us certainly can. Do the research, try your best, ask for help, and apologise if you need to. Actionable step: If you're writing a character from a specific culture, identify three to five sensory or behavioural details that are particular to that culture—not the generic version, but the real, researched, lived-in version. Consider hiring a sensitivity reader from that community to check your work. 10. Give Your Protagonist a Morally Neutral ‘Hero' Status Matt Bird was clear about this on episode 624: the word “hero” simply means the protagonist, the person we follow through the story. It's a functional role, not a moral label. We don't have to like them. We don't even have to root for their goals in a moral sense. We just have to find them compelling enough to invest our attention in their problem-solving. Think of Succession, where every member of the Roy family is varying degrees of awful, and yet the show was utterly compelling. Or WeCrashed, where Adam Neumann is a narcissistic con artist, but we can't look away because he's trying to solve the enormous problem of building an empire from nothing, and the tradecraft he employs is fascinating. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, readers must want to spend time with your characters. They don't have to be lovable or even likable—that will depend on your genre and story choices—but they have to be captivating enough that we want to spend time with them. A character who is trying to solve a massive problem will naturally draw investment from the audience, even if we wouldn't want to have tea with them. Will Storr extended this idea by pointing out that the audience will actually root for a character to solve their problem even if the audience doesn't actually want the character's goal to be achieved in the real world. We don't really want more billionaires, but we invested in Adam Neumann's rise because that was the problem the story posed, and our brains are wired to invest in problem-solving. This connects to something deeper: what does your character want, and why? As I explore in How to Write a Novel, desire operates on multiple levels. Take a character like Phil, who joins the military during wartime. On the surface, she wants to serve her country. But she also wants to escape her dead-end town and learn new skills. Deeper still, her father and grandfather served, and by joining up, she hopes to finally earn their respect. And perhaps deepest of all, her father died on a mission under mysterious circumstances, and she wants to find out what happened from the inside. That layering of motivation is what turns a flat character into a three-dimensional one. The audience doesn't need to be told all of this explicitly. It can emerge through action, dialogue, and the choices the character makes under pressure. But you, the writer, need to know it. You need to know what your character really wants deep down, because that desire—more than any external plot device—is what drives the story forward. And your antagonist needs the same depth. They also want something, often diametrically opposed to your protagonist, and they need a reason that makes sense to them. In my ARKANE thriller Tree of Life, my antagonist is the heiress of a Brazilian mining empire who wants to restore the Earth to its original state to atone for the destruction caused by her father's company. She's part of a radical ecological group who believe the only way to restore Nature is to end all human life. It's extreme, but in an era of climate change, it's a motivation readers can understand—even if they disagree with the solution. Actionable step: If you're struggling to make a morally grey character work, make sure their problem is big enough and their methods are specific and interesting enough that we invest in the how, even if we're ambivalent about the what. 11. Build Vibrant Side Characters Gail Carriger made a point on episode 550 that was equal parts craft advice and business strategy. In a Heroine's Journey model, side characters aren't just fodder to be killed off to motivate the hero. They form a network. And because you don't have to kill them—unlike in a hero's journey, where allies are often betrayed or removed so the hero can be further isolated—you can pick up those side characters and give them their own books. Gail said this creates a really voracious reader base. You write one series with vivid side characters, and then readers fall in love with those side characters and want their stories. So you write spin-offs. The romance genre does this brilliantly—think of the Bridgerton books, where each sibling gets their own novel. The side character in one book becomes the protagonist in the next. Barbara Nickless experienced this firsthand with her Dr. Evan Wilding series. She has River Wilding, Evan's adventurous brother, and Diana, the axe-throwing research assistant, and her editor has already expressed interest in a spin-off series with those characters. Barbara described creating characters she wants to spend time with, or characters who give her nightmares but also intrigue her. That's the dual test: are they interesting enough for you to write, and interesting enough for readers to demand more? As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, characters that span series can deepen the reader's relationship with them as you expand their backstory into new plots. Readers will remember the character more than the plot or the book title, and look forward to the next instalment because they want more time with those people. British crime author Angela Marsons described it as readers feeling like returning to her characters is like putting on a pair of old slippers. Actionable step: Look at your supporting cast. Is there a side character who is vivid enough to carry their own story? If not, what could you add—a specific hobby, a distinct voice, a compelling backstory—that would make readers want more of them? 12. Use Voice as a Rhythmic Tool Voice is one of the most important elements of novel writing, and Matt Bird helped me think about it in a technical, mechanical way that I found really useful. He pointed out that the ratio of periods to commas defines a character's internal reality. A staccato rhythm—lots of periods, short sentences—suggests a character who is certain, grounded, or perhaps survivalist and traumatised. Katniss in The Hunger Games has a period-heavy voice. She's in survival mode. She doesn't have time for complexity or qualification. A flowing, comma-heavy style suggests someone more academic, more nuanced, or possibly more scattered and manipulative. The character who qualifies everything, who adds sub-clauses and digressions, is a different kind of person from the character who speaks in declarations. This is something you can actually measure. Pull up a passage of your character's dialogue or internal monologue and count the periods versus the commas. If the rhythm doesn't match who the character is supposed to be, you've found a mismatch you can fix. Sentence length is the heartbeat of your character's persona. And voice extends beyond rhythm to the words themselves. As I discussed in the metaphor families tip, each character should draw from a distinctive well of language. But voice also encompasses their relationship to silence. Some characters talk around the thing they mean; others say it straight. Some are self-deprecating; others are blunt to the point of rudeness. All of these choices are character choices, not just style choices. I find it useful to read my dialogue aloud—and not just to check for naturalness, but to hear whether each character sounds distinct. If you could swap dialogue lines between two characters and nobody would notice, you have a voice problem. One practical test: cover the dialogue tags and see if you can tell who's speaking from the words alone. Actionable step: Choose a key passage from your protagonist's point of view and read it aloud. Does the rhythm match the character? A soldier under fire should not sound like a philosophy professor at a wine tasting. Adjust the ratio of periods to commas until the voice feels right. 13. Link Character and Plot Until They're Inseparable Will Storr made the case on episode 490 that the number one problem he sees in the writing he encounters—in workshops, in submissions, even in published books—is that the characters and the plots are unconnected. There's a story happening, and there are people in it, but the story isn't a product of who those people are. He said a story should be like life. In our lives, the plots are intimately connected to who we are as characters. The goals we pursue, the obstacles we face, the same problems that keep recurring—these are products of our personalities, our flaws, our specific ways of being in the world. His framework is that your plot should be designed specifically to plot against your character. You've got a character with a particular flaw; the plot exists to test that flaw over and over until the character either transforms or doubles down and explodes. Jaws is the perfect example. Brody is afraid of water. A shark shows up in the coastal town he's responsible for protecting. The entire plot is engineered to force him to confront the one thing he cannot face. Will pointed out that the whole plot of Jaws is structured around Brody's flaw. It begins with the shark arriving, the midpoint is when Brody finally gets the courage to go into the water, and the very final scene isn't the shark blowing up—it's Brody swimming back through the water. Even a film that's ninety-eight percent action is, at its core, structured around a character with a character flaw. This is the standard I aspire to in my own work, even in my action-heavy thrillers. The external plot should be a mirror of the internal struggle. When those two are aligned, the story becomes irresistible. Will also made an important point about series fiction, which is where most commercial authors live. I asked him how this works when your character can't be transformed at the end of every book because there has to be a next book. His answer was elegant: you don't cure them. Episodic TV characters like Fleabag or David Brent or Basil Fawlty never truly change—and the fact that they don't change is actually the source of the comedy. But every episode throws a new story event at them that tests and exposes their flaw. You just keep throwing story events at them again and again. That's a soap opera, a sitcom, and a book series. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, character flaws are aspects of personality that affect the person so much that facing and overcoming them becomes central to the plot. In Jaws, the protagonist Brody is afraid of the water, but he has to overcome that flaw to destroy the killer shark and save the town. But remember, your characters should feel like real people, so never define them purely by their flaws. The character addicted to painkillers might also be a brilliant and successful female lawyer who gets up at four in the morning to work out at the gym, likes eighties music, and volunteers at the local dog shelter at weekends. Character wounds are different from flaws. They're formed from life experience and are part of your character's backstory—traumatic events that happened before the events of your novel but shape the character's reactions in the present. In my ARKANE thrillers, Morgan Sierra's husband Elian died in her arms during a military operation. This happened before the series begins, but her memories of it recur when she faces a firefight, and she struggles to find happiness again for fear of losing someone she loves once more. And then there's the perennial advice: show, don't tell. Most writers have heard this so many times that it's easy to nod and then promptly write scenes that tell rather than show. Basically, you need to reveal your character through action and dialogue, rather than explanation. In my thriller Day of the Vikings, Morgan Sierra fights a Neo-Viking in the halls of the British Museum and brings him down with Krav Maga. That fight scene isn't just about showing action. It opens up questions about her backstory, demonstrates character, and moves the plot forward. Telling would be something like: “Morgan was an expert in Krav Maga.” Showing is the reader discovering it through the scene itself. Actionable step: Look at the main plot events of your novel. For each major turning point, ask: does this scene specifically test my protagonist's flaw? If not, can you redesign the scene so that it does? The tighter the connection between character and plot, the more powerful the story. 14. The ‘Maestra' Approach: Write Out of Order If you're a discovery writer like me, you may feel like the deep character work I've been describing sounds more suited to plotters. But Barbara Nickless gave me a beautiful metaphor on episode 732 that reframes it entirely. Barbara described her evolving writing process as being like a maestra standing in front of an orchestra. Sometimes you bring in the horns—a certain theme—and sometimes you bring in the strings—a certain character—and sometimes you turn to the soloist. It's a more organic and jumping-around process than linear writing, and Barbara said she's only recently given herself permission to work this way. When I told her that I use Scrivener to write in scenes out of order and then drag and drop them into a structure later, she was genuinely intrigued. And this is how I've always worked. I'll see the story in my mind like a movie trailer—flashes of the big emotional scenes, the pivotal confrontations, the moments of revelation—and I write those first. I don't know how they hang together until quite late in the process. Then I'll move scenes around, print the whole thing out, and figure out the connective tissue. The point is that discovery writers can absolutely build deep characters. Sometimes writing the big emotional scenes first is how you discover who the character is before you fill in the rest. You don't need a twenty-page character worksheet or a 200-page outline like Jeffery Deaver. You need to be willing to follow the character into the unknown and trust that the structure will emerge. As Barbara said, she writes to know what she's thinking. That's the discovery writer's credo. And I would add: I write to know who my characters are. Actionable step: If you're stuck on your current chapter, skip it. Write the scene that's burning in your imagination, even if it's from the middle or the end. That scene might be the key to unlocking who your character really is. 15. Use Research to Help with Empathy Research shouldn't just be about factual accuracy—it's a tool for finding the sensory details that create empathy. Barbara Nickless described research as almost an excuse to explore things that fascinate her, and I feel exactly the same way. I would go so far as to say that writing is an excuse for me to explore the things that interest me. Barbara and I both travel for our stories. For her Dr. Evan Wilding books, she did deep research into Old English literature and the Viking Age. For my thriller End of Days, I transcribed hours of video from Appalachian snake-handling churches on YouTube to understand the worldview of the worshippers, because my antagonist was brought up in that tradition. I couldn't just make that up. I had to hear their language, feel their conviction, understand why they would hold venomous serpents as an act of faith. Barbara also mentioned getting to Israel and the West Bank for research, and I've been to both places too. Finding that one specific sensory detail—the smell of a particular location, the specific way an expert handles a tool, the sound of a particular kind of music—makes the character's life feel lived-in. It's the difference between a character who is described as living in a place and a character who inhabits it. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, don't write what you know. Write what you want to learn about. I love research. It's part of why I'm an author in the first place. I take any excuse to dive into a world different from my own. Research using books, films, podcasts, and travel, and focus particularly on sources produced by people from the worldview you want to understand. Actionable step: For your next piece of character research, go beyond reading. Watch a documentary, visit a location, talk to someone who lives the experience. Find one sensory detail—a smell, a sound, a texture—that you couldn't have invented. That detail will make your character feel real. Bonus: Measure Your Life by What You Create In an age of AI and a tsunami of content, your ultimate brand protection is the quality of your human creation. Barbara Nickless said that the act of producing itself is a balm to the soul, and I believe that with every fibre of my being. Don't be afraid to take that step back, like I did with my deadlifting. Take the time to master these deeper craft skills. It might feel like you're slowing down or going backwards by not chasing the latest marketing trend, but it's the only way to step forward into a sustainable, high-quality career. Your characters are your signature. No AI can replicate the specificity of your lived experience, the emotional truth of your displaced trauma, or the sensory details you've gathered from a life of curiosity and travel. Those are yours. Pour them into your characters, and they will resonate for years to come. Actionable Takeaway: Identify the Dramatic Question for your current protagonist. Can you state it in a single sentence with the kind of specificity Will Storr described? Is it as clear as “Are you ordinary or extraordinary?” or “Are you the only adult in the room?” If you can't answer it with that kind of precision, your character might still be a sketch. Give them a diagonal toast moment today. Find the one hyper-specific detail that proves they are not an imitation of life. And then ask yourself: does your plot test your character's flaw in every major scene? If you can align those two things—a precisely defined character and a plot that exists to test them—you will have a story that readers cannot put down. References and Deep Dives The episodes I've referenced today are all available with full transcripts at TheCreativePenn.com: Episode 732 — Facing Fears, and Writing Unique Characters with Barbara Nickless Episode 673 — Writing Choctaw Characters and Diversity in Fiction with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer Episode 624 — Writing Characters with Matt Bird Episode 550 — The Heroine's Journey with Gail Carriger Episode 490 — How Character Flaws Shape Story with Will Storr Books mentioned: The Secrets of Character: Writing a Hero Anyone Will Love by Matt Bird The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr The Heroine's Journey by Gail Carriger How to Write a Novel: From Idea to Book by Joanna Penn You can find all my books for authors at CreativePennBooks.com and my fiction and memoir at JFPennBooks.com Happy writing! How was this episode created? This episode was initiated created by NotebookLM based on YouTube videos of the episodes linked above from YouTube/TheCreativePenn, plus my text chapters on character from How to Write a Novel. NotebookLM created a blog post from the material and then I expanded it and fact checked it with Claude.ai 4.6 Opus, and then I used my voice clone at ElevenLabs to narrate it. The post Writing Characters: 15 Actionable Tips For Writing Deep Character first appeared on The Creative Penn.

In this episode, Jennifer Wallace and Elisabeth Kristof are joined in person by Dr. Lovey Bradley, NSI certified practitioner, BrainBased facilitator, and facilitator of the NSI BIPOC Affinity Group. Together they examine how racial stress and systemic oppression live in the body, how they shape nervous system patterns across generations, and what post-traumatic growth actually requires when the environment itself keeps activating survival. Dr. Lovey opens by sharing what brought her to this conversation, including a moment of messaging Elisabeth out of frustration, asking why race still has to be such a defining factor, and what it would take to start breaking those walls down. The answer they keep returning to: it starts with having the conversations. From there the episode moves into the physiology of racial stress, how chronic exposure to discrimination activates the HPA axis, elevates cortisol, suppresses progesterone, and drives the specific health disparities that show up disproportionately in melanated bodies, including fibroids, endometriosis, heart disease, hypertension, and chronic pain. Dr. Lovey names what she sees in the women she works with and connects those physical realities directly to suppressed expression, ancestral stress load, and the specific demands placed on bodies that have never had the systemic safety to soften. Elisabeth grounds the conversation in current research including the work of Resmaa Menakem on embodied racial trauma and Tema Okun's writing on white supremacy culture, which she connects directly to nervous system dysregulation rather than personality or ideology. The episode also traces how cultural conditioning normalizes threat-based behaviors like urgency, perfectionism, and emotional repression as efficiency or success, and what that means for everyone living inside those systems. Dr. Lovey also shares the story of how she accidentally created a healing community for melanated women after a single post went viral in a Facebook group, and what the response revealed about the collective hunger for real, unperformed connection. Topics Covered How racism functions as a chronic threat signal that reshapes the nervous system, not just belief or behavior What the HPA axis, cortisol, and progesterone have to do with racial stress and women's health outcomes How suppressed expression contributes to physical disease in melanated bodies What Resmaa Menakem's framework adds to neuro somatic approaches to racialized trauma Why white supremacy culture traits like urgency and perfectionism map directly onto chronic stress behaviors How the urgency to fix or regulate can itself become a form of bypassing in healing spaces What post-traumatic growth looks like at a collective level, not just an individual one Why witnessing state violence on social media is a genuine nervous system stressor, even for those not directly targeted How Dr. Levy's community for melanated women came to life and what it is building toward Chapter Markers 0:00 - Why This Conversation Had to Happen 01:57 - Welcome: Racial Trauma, the Nervous System, and Post-Traumatic Growth 07:25 - What Racial Stress Looks Like in the Body, for White and Melanated Bodies 10:44 - Post-Traumatic Growth at the Collective Level: What It Actually Requires 15:35 - The Danger of Regulating Out of Activation Before the Cycle Completes 18:09 - The Neuroscience: HPA Axis, Allostatic Load, and Chronic Racial Threat 24:27 - How Racial Stress Shows Up in Hormones, Cycles, and Women's Health 29:25 - Resmaa Menakem, White Supremacy Culture, and the Nervous System 38:42 - Dr. Levy's Community for Melanated Women and What It Is Building 41:35 - Witnessing Violence at Scale: What It Does to All Nervous Systems 49:11 - What This Work Has Made Possible: Dr. Levy on Choosing to Create a Different World 51:59 - Closing Reflection: What Post-Traumatic Growth Requires of Us Collectively Ways to Engage with Neurosomatics: Neurosomatic Intelligence is now enrolling : https://neurosomaticintelligence.com/nsi-certification Join us for a two week trial of neurosomatic practices at rewiretrial.com Free BrainBased neurosomatic workshop for entrepreneurs at rewirecapacity.com Sacred Synapse: an educational YouTube channel founded by Jennifer Wallace that explores nervous system regulation, applied neuroscience, consciousness, and psychedelic preparation and integration through Neurosomatic Intelligence.  Wayfinder Journal: Track nervous system patterns and support preparation and integration through Neurosomatic Intelligence. Learn to work with Boundaries at the level of the body and nervous system at https://www.boundaryrewire.com   Resources: Brave Heart, Maria Yellow Horse. "The Historical Trauma Response Among Natives and Its Relationship with Substance Abuse: A Lakota Illustration." Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, vol. 35, no. 1, 2003, pp. 7–13. Brave Heart, Maria Yellow Horse, and Eduardo Duran. "Healing the Soul Wound: Counseling with American Indians and Other Native Peoples." Teachers College Press, 1995. DeGruy, Joy. Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome: America's Legacy of Enduring Injury and Healing. Joy DeGruy Publications Inc., 2005. Hobson, J. M., M. D. Moody, R. E. Sorge, and B. R. Goodin. "The Neurobiology of Social Stress Resulting from Racism." Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, vol. 17, no. 2, 2022, pp. 181–191. Hicken, Margaret T., et al. "Everyday Discrimination, Chronic Stress, and Cardiovascular Health." American Journal of Epidemiology, 2014. Geronimus, Arline T. "Weathering and the Health of African-American Women." Ethnicity & Disease, 2006. Menakem, Resmaa. My Grandmother's Hands: Racialized Trauma and the Pathway to Mending Our Hearts and Bodies. Central Recovery Press, 2017. Okun, Tema. "White Supremacy Culture." Dismantling Racism Works, originally published 1999, revised 2021. Williams, Monnica T. "Racial Trauma: Theory, Research, and Healing." American Psychologist, vol. 74, no. 1, 2019, pp. 33–42.  

Across many Indigenous traditions of North America, stories of “Star People” are not fringe mythology but part of living cosmology. Nations such as the Zuni and Hopi describe ancestral relationships with celestial beings and migrations guided by star knowledge. These traditions appear repeatedly in oral histories collected by scholars and Indigenous knowledge keepers. This program brings together Native elder Clifford Mahooty, Indigenous scholar Paulette Steeves, and researcher Ardy Sixkiller Clarke to explore whether these traditions preserve encoded knowledge about ancient migrations, cosmology, or contact narratives. The conversation bridges Indigenous oral memory with academic archaeology and anthropology.Clifford Mahooty — Zuni Pueblo elder, retired civil/environmental engineer, and wisdom keeper active in Zuni religious orders including the Kachina and Galaxy Medicine Society. On Earth Ancients he discusses Zuni oral history, ritual life, kachinas, and connections to star people.Dr. Ardy Sixkiller Clarke — Professor Emeritus at Montana State University who devoted her career to Indigenous populations and published work on Native accounts of “Star People.” Earth Ancients presents her as a noted American Indian researcher whose interviews collected first-person Indigenous narratives.Dr. Paulette SteevesCree-Métis archaeologist and professor (Algoma University). Author of The Indigenous Paleolithic of the Americas. Her research argues Indigenous presence in the Americas extends far earlier than mainstream archaeology recognizes.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/earth-ancients--2790919/support.

Story of the Week (DR):WarSaudi Aramco CEO issues stark warning: Iran war could bring ‘catastrophic' shock to global oilPrediction markets face questions on Iran war bets, from regime change to nuclear detonationThe Maduro Capture (Jan 2026): Just hours before the U.S. captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, a new Polymarket account wagered $30,000 on his removalIsraeli Military Indictments (Feb 2026): At least two individuals in the Israeli defense forces were reportedly indicted for using classified intelligence to place winning bets on the specific dates of military strikes in IranNational Security Risk: A recent report by Responsible Statecraft warns that officials with the power to influence military timing could alter operations to maximize their payout The Atlantic Council recently warned that foreign adversaries can "weaponize the odds" by dumping money into a thinly traded market to create a false narrative that a country is about to collapse, potentially triggering a real-world panic or bank run.Kalshi (private)1/13/25: Kalshi names Donald Trump Jr. as strategic advisorPolymarket (college dropout Shayne Coplan)8/26/25: Kalshi Advisor Donald Trump Jr. Joins Rival Polymarket BoardTrump Jr.'s 1789 Capital is making an eight-figure investment in the controversial prediction-market company.AI JobsAnthropic just mapped out which jobs AI could potentially replace. A ‘Great Recession for white-collar workers' is absolutely possibleThe most AI-exposed group is 16 percentage points more likely to be female, earns 47% more on average, and is nearly four times as likely to hold a graduate degree compared to the least exposed group.Sam Altman admits AI is killing the labor-capital balance—and says nobody knows what to do about itOracle expected to slash thousands of jobs as massive AI spending creates financial cash crisisLayoffs are feeling awfully tempting for a lot of companies right nowCEOs are using one number in the AI age to decide how many people they still needRevenue per employeePatreon's CEO says AI will be a 'bloodbath for the world's creative people' unless tech companies pay upAtlassian slashes 10% of workforce to 'self-fund' investments in AI and enterprise salesThe unexpected 92,000 drop in payrolls is a clue we might be reading the AI jobs narrative all wrongWorker painAI Is Forcing Employees to Work Harder Than EverAI Job Loss Is Breaking the Psyche of Workers, Psychiatrist Warns‘AI brain fry' is real — and it's making workers more exhausted, not more productive, new study findsEconomist Dambisa Moyo says CEOs must play a role in sustaining the consumer class as AI eliminates jobsThis could only happen if we weren't controlled by the TechBro Dropout GangCII‘Not a goodbye…': What Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen told employees after announcing decision to step downShantanu Narayen, CEO of Adobe for 18 years, will step down once a successor is appointed, while continuing as board chairman.Google Hands Sundar Pichai $692M Package Tied to AI BetsPackage uniquely ties executive pay to Waymo autonomous vehicle and Wing drone delivery venture performanceCompensation structure sets precedent for linking CEO pay to specific AI business unit success rather than overall company metricsSo now CEOs can either game their bonus by obsessively focusing on one thing or doom the rest of the company by obsessively focusing on one thing or bothAs You Sow Files Lawsuit Challenging Chubb's Refusal to Put Shareholder Proposal Addressing Climate-Driven Insurance Crisis on Company ProxyThe proposal asks shareholders to vote on whether Chubb should commission a report assessing whether pursuing subrogation claims against parties responsible for climate change could reduce losses, benefit shareholders, and help preserve affordable homeowners insurance.This lawsuit follows the SEC's decision to abandon its longstanding role as a neutral arbiter in the shareholder proposal process. In November 2025, the SEC announced that it would no longer review corporate no-action requests under Rule 14a-8, effectively forcing these matters into court—an expensive and lengthy process.Sen. Elizabeth Warren Slams SEC As 'Lap Dog For Trump's Billionaire Buddies' After It Dismisses Another Crypto Case"The SEC should not be a lap dog for Trump's billionaire buddies"Live Nation, Ticketmaster's Owner, Settles Antitrust Case With Justice DeptThat was fastLive Nation Entertainment board includes Trump administration bro Richard Grenell 2 of 12 are womenGrenell is somehow the president of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts despite no background in anything resembling “the Arts.”He replaced a woman, Deborah Rutter. The chair is President Trump. Of course. And the board now is down to only one woman: 2 years ago it was 60% female.Glass Lewis recommends voting against Starbucks director over ‘board-level E&S oversight'New York State Comptroller, New York City Comptroller, SOC Investment Group, Canadian responsible investment association SHARE, Merseyside Pension Fund, and Trillium oppose the re-election of lead independent director Jørgen Vig Knudstorp, as well as Beth Ford, chair of Starbucks' Nominating and Corporate Governance (NCG) committee.Ford was chair of the EPCI committee and now leads the NCG committee, which assumed some of the responsibilities of the EPCI when it was disbanded.In its benchmark policy proxy paper, Glass Lewis has recommended investors vote against Ford.Goodliest of the Week (MM/DR):DR:Uber rolls out women-only option in the USDR: CEOs of failed banks would have to surrender pay under bipartisan planSenate legislation would mandate “clawbacks” of executive pay, three years after the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank.MM: 24 states, Nintendo sue Trump over tariffs as refund fight growsCostco CEO Ron Vachris Pledges to Return Tariff Refunds to ShoppersMM: Andrew Yang says we should stop taxing workers — and start taxing AIAssholiest of the Week (MM):War on Women: part 1Alex KarpPalantir CEO Makes Shocking Confession on Disrupting Democratic PowerPalantir CEO Alex Karp thinks his AI technology will lessen the power of “highly educated, often female voters, who vote mostly Democrat” while increasing the power of working-class men.“This technology disrupts humanities-trained—largely Democratic—voters, and makes their economic power less. And increases the economic power of vocationally trained, working-class, often male, working-class voters,” Karp said in a CNBC interview Thursday. “And so these disruptions are gonna disrupt every aspect of our society. And to make this work, we have to come to an agreement of what it is we're going to do with the technology; how are we gonna explain to people who are likely gonna have less good, and less interesting jobs.”To Alexandra Schiff, ex WSJ reporter and daughter of Tom Wolfe, who wrote a semi adoring Silicon Valley book in 2017 holding Peter Thiel as a god (and now sits on this board with Thiel), and to Lauren Friedman Stat, who only seems to post Palantir sizzle reels and as best I can tell is married to a “David Stat” who is the name of a “Director” (not on the board?) of Palantir who is in a Form 4 for selling stock:What the fuck are you doing. Do you read what this dude says? Are you that cucked to the tech bro elite you can't stop and say, “Hey, Alex, maybe tone down the suggestion you're trying to stop female Democrats from voting?”War on Women: part 2Glass Lewis recommends voting against Starbucks director over ‘board-level E&S oversight'Because Starbucks disbanded the Environmental, Partner and Community Impact committee of the board - launched in 2023, dissolved in November 2025Committee launched after majority supported SHP to focus on labor issuesJorgen Knudstorp and Daniel Servitje, the OTHER committee members, somehow escape entirelyKnudstorp is the Lead independent director, Niccol is the CEO and chair of the board (yes, chair)But instead of targeting Niccol or even Knudstorp, Glass Lewis targeted the female chair of the committee… ONLYIf the CEO gets to be chair - doesn't the CEO have to take responsibility for board overall? If you have an LID, are they accountable?? Why would the chair of a committee be target without the chair of the board or LID? Can a committee chair dissolve their own committee??Cracker Barrel - the scapegoat was the person of color who had “diversity” in their job description, not the longest tenured director who was also chair of the board but was a white guy - and Glass Lewis suggested voting out the brown dudeWar on Women: part 3 speed roundDOGE, DEI, and climate changeBlack women were disproportionately impacted by DOGE cuts. A year later, they're rebuilding careers for themselves and each otherI Watched 6 Hours of DOGE Bro Testimony. Here's What They Had to Say For ThemselvesOver the course of a six hour long or so deposition, Justin Fox, a former investment banker turned DOGE bro, refused to define what he believes counts as DEI; admitted he used ChatGPT to scan government contracts for terms such as “Black” and “homosexual” but not “white” or “caucasian;” and said that one of the grants he helped slash was “not for the benefit of humankind” before walking that claim back.Why ‘bringing your whole self to work' is a trap, especially for womenFormer Goldman Sachs CEO says DEI programs are ‘counterproductive,' arguing ‘you're branding the people in that program'Climate change: Women face worst impacts as funding support falls shortIn 2025, a UN women report warned that under a worst-case climate scenario, up to 158.3 million more women and girls may live in extreme poverty globally as a result of climate change by 2050Headliniest of the WeekDR: Shell CEO's Pay Jumps 60% Despite Profit Drop and Fatal AccidentsDR: Jack Dorsey Defends Wearing “Love” Hat While Firing 4,000 Employees in Pivot to AI: "I wanted to approach the whole situation with love."MM: Ozempic mania has even Olive Garden and The Cheesecake Factory cutting back on portion sizesMM: Cracker Barrel sales, traffic continue to slump months after failed rebrandWho Won the Week?DR: National Museum of the American Indian and the coffee at CII, was actually pretty not grossMM: The Council for Institutional Investors Spring Conference, who got to witness Proxy Countdown livePredictionsDR: CII loses our phone numberMM: The women start the uprising now:

“Indian Makes An Attempt to Kill.” That was the newspaper headline about my great-great uncle, Cicero - a story I've shared many times. But on one retelling, something unexpected happened. The story didn't just revisit the past - it opened the door to an entirely new world of family connections I never knew existed. In Part 2, we weave together Cicero's story with my own and how, somehow, his history guided me straight to my cousin, Cheryl Stone Pitchford, and a whole new branch of our family tree. Recorded 2 years ago, in this series, Cheryl and I are on an Okie roadtrip and on a mission to visit her ancestor, Mushulatubbee's old stomping grounds, while tracing our own family roots across Choctaw Country along the way. What you'll hear in this series is a heartfelt blend of history, humor and remembrance - a hodgepodge of adventures in the very best way. Next up, we'll head to Shady Point to visit the breathtaking Ranch at Latham, owned by Choctaw, Jonathan Watson to see the land where Chief Mushulatubee lived. In this episode, I proudly sport my lovely earrings, perfectly crafted by Jennifer Ikelman (Registered Tribal Artist of the Choctaw Nation) of Acorn and Oak Crafts. https://www.etsy.com/shop/AcornAndOakCrafts?ref=shop_sugg This series is one I hope you'll watch on YouTube to see the photos and visuals along the way. Yakoke! #cherystonepitchford #theranchatlatham #choctawnationofoklahoma #nativechoctalkpodcast #nativechoctalk #rachaelellenyoungman #rachaelyoungman #Choctaw #chahta #nativeamerican #AmericanIndian #nativepodcast

In this episode, Alex Kemper, MD, MPH, MS, FAAP, editor-in-chief of the journal Pediatrics, offers a sampling from the March issue. David Hill, MD, FAAP, and Joanna Parga-Belinkie, MD, FAAP, also speak with Allison Empey, MD, FAAP, about considerations in research with American Indian and Alaska Native communities. For resources go to aap.org/podcast.

The National Congress of American Indians hears an update on the Tribal Supreme Court Project on February 11, 2026. The Tribal Supreme Court Project is a joint initiative of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) and the Native American Rights Fund (NARF). The project is celebrating its 25th anniversary in 2026. SPEAKERS Leonard Fineday, General Counsel, NCAI Tracy Labin Rhodes, Attorney formerly of NARF Melody McCoy, Senior Staff Attorney, NARF The update took place at NCAI's executive council winter session in Washington, D.C.

The National Congress of American Indians hears an update on the Tribal Supreme Court Project on February 11, 2026. The Tribal Supreme Court Project is a joint initiative of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) and the Native American Rights Fund (NARF). The project is celebrating its 25th anniversary in 2026. SPEAKERS Leonard Fineday, General Counsel, NCAI Tracy Labin Rhodes, Attorney formerly of NARF Melody McCoy, Senior Staff Attorney, NARF The update took place at NCAI's executive council winter session in Washington, D.C.

The National Congress of American Indians hears an update on the Tribal Supreme Court Project on February 11, 2026. The Tribal Supreme Court Project is a joint initiative of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) and the Native American Rights Fund (NARF). The project is celebrating its 25th anniversary in 2026. SPEAKERS Leonard Fineday, General Counsel, NCAI Tracy Labin Rhodes, Attorney formerly of NARF Melody McCoy, Senior Staff Attorney, NARF The update took place at NCAI's executive council winter session in Washington, D.C.

The National Congress of American Indians hears an update on the Tribal Supreme Court Project on February 11, 2026. The Tribal Supreme Court Project is a joint initiative of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) and the Native American Rights Fund (NARF). The project is celebrating its 25th anniversary in 2026. SPEAKERS Leonard Fineday, General Counsel, NCAI Tracy Labin Rhodes, Attorney formerly of NARF Melody McCoy, Senior Staff Attorney, NARF The update took place at NCAI's executive council winter session in Washington, D.C.

Jessie Jackson told all the black people that we are African Americans, knowing that we are the true native-born American Indians, while he collected his check, we did not collect ours and the Trump admin The divide is interesting (sarcasm)No one is better than the other; we're all getting played also DR Haiti, Puerto Rico, all were one a long time ago before their walls were built, and colorism was brought to the front of their minds, the darker people caught the bad end of the stick, period, and are outcasts of their old forgotten society.Go grab A Conversation With Alexandria August

The US hockey team emerges triumphant at the Olympics, and we discuss why it was so awesome; another apparent assassination attempt against President Trump is thwarted; and Tucker Carlson makes a fool of himself with Ambassador Mike Huckabee. Ep. 2372 - - - Click here to join the member-exclusive portion of my show: https://dwplus.watch/BenShapiroMemberExclusive - - - Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings - - - Today's Sponsors: PureTalk - Make the switch in as little as 10 minutes and start saving today! Visit https://PureTalk.com/SHAPIRO Shopify - Sign up for your $1-per-month trial and start selling today at https://Shopify.com/shapiro - - - DailyWire+: Become a Daily Wire Member and watch all of our content ad-free: https://www.dailywire.com/subscribe

In this episode, Annika Theodoulou speaks to Professor Jonathan Bricker, a Professor of Public Health at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and Affiliate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington, US. The interview covers Jonathan's research article covering intersectionality in cigarette smoking cessation using a latent class analysis to predict 12-month cessation in a randomized controlled trial.Intersectionality and why it is important to explore in smoking cessation [01:19]Six factors that are well-known predictors of smoking [03:20]The aim of a latent class analysis [04:55]The key findings of the study [07:09]The differences found between smartphone apps used in the trial [11:02]The implications of the findings for policy and practice [14:49]About Annika Theodoulou: Annika is a researcher at the Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences at the University of Oxford. Her work focuses on health behaviours, including smoking cessation and weight management, with an emphasis on evidence synthesis. Annika's doctoral research, funded by the Society for the Study of Addiction (SSA) and The Rotary Foundation, examined socioeconomic inequalities in smoking cessation behaviours and outcomes using quantitative and qualitative methods. She is an Associate Editor of Nicotine & Tobacco Research. Annika holds a Bachelor of Health Sciences and a Master of Clinical Science from the University of Adelaide.About Jonathan Bricker: Jonathan is an expert in the field of health behavior change interventions. He is a Full Professor of Public Health at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and Affiliate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Washington in Seattle, Washington. Dr. Bricker is founder and leader of the Health and Behavioral Innovations in Technology (“HABIT”) Research Group. The HABIT research group focuses on developing and testing innovative theory-based behavioral interventions for tobacco cessation and weight loss, especially those delivered in widely disseminable technology platforms. He and his team have developed a novel health behavior change intervention model based on the principles of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (“ACT”). The principal investigator of over $35 million US dollars in research grants, he has been leading ten NIH R01 randomized trial grants, as well as led or collaborated on multiple other Federal and private research grants. His current grants focus on testing a machine learning natural language processing chatbot for quitting smoking, several smartphone applications for tobacco cessation in the general population, among cancer patients, American Indians & Alaska Natives, Hispanics, and adolescents, and a weight loss telephone coaching program based on ACT. His “iCanQuit” smartphone app based on ACT was proven more effective than a leading National Cancer Institute smartphone app based on the US Clinical Practice Guidelines in a large, randomized trial published in JAMA Internal Medicine. iCanQuit is now publicly available. He has published over 150 peer-reviewed research articles on addictions, behavioral interventions, and technologies. Currently, he serves as a Senior Editor of the journal Addiction. Original article: Intersectionality in cigarette smoking cessation: A latent class analysis to predict 12-month cessation in a randomized controlled trial https://doi.org/10.1111/add.70185Digital Object Identifier (DOI)The opinions expressed in this podcast reflect the views of the host and interviewees and do not necessarily represent the opinions or official positions of the SSA or Addiction journal.The SSA does not endorse or guarantee the accuracy of the information in external sources or links and accepts no responsibility or liability for any consequences arising from the use of such information. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, Dr. Sean M. Viña joins to discuss the ways that social inequality can impact psychedelic healing. Dr. Viña is a sociologist with a PhD from Indiana University whose research focuses on psychedelics and mental health, and social inequality. In this conversation, Dr. Viña explains that while psychedelics are often framed as transformative treatments, their benefits appear unevenly distributed and frequently constrained by structural factors such as income inequality, education, stigma, caregiving burden, segregation, and social isolation. The discussion highlights how women—particularly single mothers—may experience diminished gains due to caregiving demands and stigmatization of mental illness, while Black and Latino populations show little measurable benefit once socioeconomic inequality is accounted for. Throughout, Dr. Viña emphasizes that outcomes are shaped less by the substances themselves than by the sociocultural environments people return to after treatment, underscoring the importance of community integration and structural supports alongside clinical care.   In this episode, you'll hear: What inspired Dr. Viña to research social inequality and psychedelics How caregiving burden, education, and stigma modulate women's mental health outcomes following psychedelic use Why socioeconomic inequality appears to eliminate measurable benefits for many Black and Latino participants The role of segregation, policing environments, and chronic stress in shaping treatment outcomes Why American Indian populations respond better to psychedelic treatments in rural areas with greater access to nature and their culture How having access to private versus public health insurance can impact psychedelic healing Why focusing only on therapist–patient interactions may miss key determinants of success Implications for designing more equitable psychedelic treatments and research   Quotes: "Women who are highly educated actually seem to be getting about as much benefit [from psychedelic treatments] as men who are highly educated, but [lack of] education doesn't seem to negatively affect men the same way it affects women. Again, that's the pattern we see in all kinds of other health resources." [9:36] "One of the studies that we did showed that if it wasn't for education and income differences, there would be a slight benefit [from psychedelics] for black participants in these surveys. But as soon as you accounted for education inequality and income inequality, it was wiped out." [21:40] "I love the concept of the psychedelic renaissance, but when we start thinking about the statistics of who this is helping, this is a renaissance of less than 1% of people, right? This is a very small group of people who are getting benefits, just like many of the other resources that have come out in the past. … all these resources are probably valuable. They're all helpful. But there needs to be more than just the drug. There needs to be a bigger conversation about this society and the community that people are living in." [36:31]   Dr. Viña's academic articles: "Medical Sociological and Epidemiological Psychedelics Paradigm", Drug Science Policy and Law, 2025 "A Community Centered Approach to Psychedelics", Discover Mental Health, 2025 "Unequal Healing: Gender, Psychedelics, and the Burden of Care", Women and Therapy, 2026 "Psychedelics and Mental Health Treatment Seeking Among Asians and Hawaiians", Psychoactives, 2025 "American Indian areas and psychedelics: A test of the minorities' diminished psychedelic returns", Journal of Rural Mental Health, 2025 "Religious Social Integration, Psychedelics, and Psychological Distress", Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 2024 "Stigma, Psychedelic Use, and the Risk of Reduced Formal Mental Health Care", Stigma and Health, 2024 With Amanda L. Stephens: "Minorities' Diminished Psychedelic Returns." Drug Science, Policy and Law, 2023 Links: Dr. Viña on LinkedIn Dr. Viña on Researchgate Previous episode: Psychedelics and Religion with Hunt Priest, MDiv Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui

Clay interviews the award-winning historian Joe Ellis about America's tragic legacy of slavery, and about the dispossession of American Indians from their sovereign homelands. Professor Ellis has often argued that what happened with respect to African Americans was Shakespearean tragedy — in other words, if the better angels of American life had prevailed, things might have turned out differently; but that the dispossession and cultural genocide America wrought with Native Americans was probably inevitable. Clay has repeatedly challenged that view, and Joe Ellis suggested that Listening to America feature a serious discussion of how things might have turned out differently in both cultural intersections. The problem of what Clay calls "the Myth of Inevitability" is that it lets white America off the hook. If it could not have turned out any other way, perhaps we don't need to wring our hands too much. It's a critical discussion of agency and complicity in America's problematic history. This episode was recorded on December 15, 2025.

Protecting tribal sovereignty is a top discussion at the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) 2026 Executive Council Winter Session, which is taking place this week in Washington, DC. NCAI President Mark Macarro (Pechanga Band of Luiseño Indians) highlighted the importance of tribal sovereignty in his State of Indian Nations address. Macarro says before there was a U.S., there were sovereign tribal nations. “Our sovereignty was not created by treaties, nor granted by Congress. It is inherent and existed before colonization. Treaties did not give us sovereignty. They recognized it. The Constitution did not define us it acknowledged us. Federal laws did not create our rights, it memorialized them. And yet for centuries, our sovereignty has been attacked and attempts continue to constrain and diminish it. Yet our nations continue to govern, continue to lead, to teach, to resist, and to rise.” Macarro says recent attacks include calls by Gov. Kevin Stitt (Cherokee/R-OK) to limit tribal sovereignty, which Macarro says is appalling. Tribal leaders in Oklahoma agree with Macarro’s sentiment. Reggie Wassana is governor of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma. “This day and age, we shouldn’t have to ask why tribes have a sovereignty. We shouldn’t have to ask what the tribe’s capabilities are, how they can function, how they can prosper, and who are tribes.” Wassana and Macarro say tribal leaders are often educating elected officials about American Indian history, tribal sovereignty and the U.S. government's trust and treaty responsibilities. Before every census, the federal government picks several test sites, focusing on hard-to-reach areas, but the bureau has cancelled that testing at four of the six regions, including two that cover Arizona tribal lands. As KJZZ's Gabriel Pietrorazio reports, this is not the first time the Census has changed course with Indian Country. In fact, this also happened in 2016 when two reservations in Washington and South Dakota were nixed, citing budget uncertainty and funding shortages. Census consultant Saundra Mitrovich (Berry Creek Rancheria of Maidu Indians of California), co-leads the Natives Count Coalition. “In the last two decennials, not only have we had the undercount, but we've had this cancellation of test sites for tribal areas twice.” Mitrovich says one concern is that the Trump administration is considering to use postal service staff to replace temporary census workers to conduct the count and cut down on costs. “A lot of the households are left invisible to the census, and they also have non-traditional addresses.” In 2020, the nonprofit Native American Rights Fund reported that more than 80% of all registered Indigenous voters in Arizona – outside of metro Phoenix and Tucson – rely solely on P.O. boxes. This time around, San Carlos and White Mountain Apache homes in Arizona as well as Cherokee households in North Carolina are being left out. The Census Bureau would not say why. “How are we gonna say that we're going to carry out this fair and full representation that the survey is supposed to provide of the country?” And on this day in 1978, the “Longest Walk” by Native activists began. A start-up ceremony took place on Alcatraz Island, where the group then proceeded to travel by foot from Sacramento to Washington D.C. to build awareness of treaty rights and injustice. Get National Native News delivered to your inbox daily. Sign up for our daily newsletter today. Download our NV1 Android or iOs App for breaking news alerts. Check out today’s Native America Calling episode Wednesday, February 11, 2026 – Route 66 changed tribes' connections and culture

Tribal leaders from across the country are gathered in Washington D.C. this week for the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) 2026 Executive Council Winter Session and State of Indian Nations Address. NCAI Youth Commission Co-Presidents Jonas Kanuhsa (Gila River Indian Community) and Angelina Serna (Oneida Nation and Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians) kicked off Monday morning's assembly by delivering the youth commission speech. Serna says her message to tribal leaders is to recognize the contributions being made by Native youth. “I really talk about tokenism when it comes to Native and really putting youth at the forefront and having youth at these tables, at these conversations, giving youth that opportunity to really learn, and for the adults to be learners and teachers as well, and incorporating language and culture in everything that we do because what we do has spirit, has purpose.” Kanuhsa says his message to attendees is to help find ways for Native youth to get more opportunities, especially for those who live in remote areas. “Opening roles for more Native youth. I think Native youth on rural reservations have a hard time maybe connecting to maybe internships, fellowships, maybe just early on new jobs, entry jobs, because of those location barriers.” The Youth Commission co-presidents also touched on safety concerns when it comes to Native people and recent federal immigration actions across the U.S. They also talked about the commission's work this week on Capitol Hill to advocate for funding, harm reduction, treatment, and recovery models for substance abuse. NCAI President Mark Macarro (Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians), who delivered the State of Indian Nations address, followed the youth commission’s remarks by saying young Native people are an important part of NCAI. “In my time here at NCAI, the youth started to say we have a voice, you know, what we have to say matters, and it matters in this moment. And, you know, we took stock of that and been making strides to have them be more inclusive. They’re right and their take on the world or take on issues in Indian Country is different than ours, and so we need to allow ourselves to hear that. but we also need to create those opportunities for us to mentor them.” NCAI’s winter session continues Tuesday with updates from federal agencies including the departments of justice, transportation, and housing. Leaders will also hear from some members of Congress from New Mexico and Washington state. U.S. Rep. Sharice Davids during a 2022 hearing. (Courtesy C-SPAN) The history and effects of Indian boarding schools would be investigated and documented under legislation re-introduced by U.S. Reps. Tom Cole (Chickasaw/R-OK) and Sharice Davids (Ho-Chunk/D-KS). Rep. Davids is one of the first two Native women elected to Congress, and has long spoken of the boarding school era, including on C-SPAN in 2022. “The policies and assimilation practices of the United States had the sole purpose of culturally assimilating American Indian, Alaska Native, and Native Hawaiian children in residential boarding schools across the country. Children were coerced and compelled to attend boarding schools away from their home. Many children did not return to their families or their communities. Those that did return lost generations' worth of cultural knowledge, stories and traditions, and communities lost their language keepers, cultural practitioners and future leaders.” H.R. 7325 would establish a commission to investigate and report on the histories of more than 500 federally run boarding schools, which operated between 1819 through the 1970s. President Joe Biden formally apologized for the schools in 2024. British forces under fire from the French and Indian forces at Monongahela, when the Braddock expedition failed to take Fort Duquesne. And on this day in 1763, the French-Indian War officially ended. The armies of France and England wrestled for territory in the Americas, with both sides swaying Native tribes to help their efforts. Some, including the Ojibwe and Winnebago, helped the French, while the Iroquois helped England. While the outcome was favorable for the British, the cost of the war compelled England to raise taxes on the 13 colonies, eventually spurring the American Revolution. Get National Native News delivered to your inbox daily. Sign up for our daily newsletter today. Download our NV1 Android or iOs App for breaking news alerts. Check out today’s Native America Calling episode Tuesday, February 10, 2026 – From the child tax credit to paperless refunds: what to know about this year's tax returns

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs Billy Kirkland addresses the National Congress of American Indians on February 10, 2026. Kirkland is a citizen of the Navajo Nation. He was confirmed to his post, a political position at the Department of the Interior, on October 7, 2025. In his position, Kirkland oversees the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Bureau of Indian Education and the Bureau of Trust Funds Administration. Kirkland spoke at NCAI's executive council winter session in Washington, D.C. It was his first appearance at NCAI since being confirmed.

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

The National Congress of American Indians hosts the State of Indian Nations on February 9, 2026. Speakers Larry Wright, Executive Director, NCAI Jonas Kanuhsa, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Angelina Serna, Co-President, NCAI Youth Commission Mark Macarro, President, NCAI Sen. Tina Smith (D-Minnesota) The State of Indian Nations kicked of NCAI's executive council winter session. The event is taking place in Washington, D.C. More from NCAI: https://www.ncai.org/event/2026-soin

Our region is facing tremendous setbacks for salmon populations and Northwest tribal treaty rights. Fish runs continue to fall short while Indigenous communities bear the brunt of climate change, political polarization, and existential threats to their way of life. Tribes can't overcome these issues alone, but it's not just a matter of finding allies — it's how to get them in the game. The Billy Frank Jr. Salmon Coalition, formed by Salmon Defense, has taken an innovative approach to protect salmon, restore ecosystems, and build climate resilience by uniting unexpected allies, who have often been at odds in the past. ​This diverse coalition includes tribal leaders, scientists, state and local officials, fishers, attorneys, conservation groups, and local industries. Join us on Indigenous Peoples' Day, for a conversation offering a timely reminder that Indigenous knowledge systems are not only vital to climate resiliency but must also be centered in policy-driven solutions. See how cross-cultural dialogue can help foster creativity and how lasting alliances are strengthened by collaboration amongst groups with different viewpoints. Peggen Frank (SeiiNiiSeii) is a leader in salmon conservation, tribal advocacy, and treaty rights protection. Since joining Salmon Defense in 2011, she has helped grow the nonprofit into a powerful conservation organization focused on education, advocacy, and litigation. Her key projects include the Billy Frank Jr. curriculum, a sčədadxʷ (salmon) education video, and the Salmon Warriors campaign. Peggen is an enrolled member of the Northern Arapaho Tribe, born and raised on the Wind River Indian Reservation, and now lives in the homelands of the Nisqually Indian people. As Executive Director of Salmon Defense, Peggen manages the likeness and legacy of Billy Frank Jr., ensuring his influence inspires future generations. Kadi Bizyayeva is the Stillaguamish Tribe of Indians vice-chairwoman, fisheries director, and Northwest Indian Fisheries commissioner. She was also appointed to the Washington Salmon Recovery Funding Board by Gov. Jay Inslee. Kadi is passionate about her role protecting and conserving tribal treaty rights and believes in honest co-management and finding common ground. Her experience includes assisting with project oversight and policy guidance, as well as accounting and administration in several roles within the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission and the Stillaguamish Tribes' Natural Resources Department, where she has worked since 2013. Along with her professional roles and achievements, Kadi is also a wife, mother, and a tribal fisher and hunter. Ron Garner is president of the Puget Sound Anglers State Board, a member of the Billy Frank Jr. Salmon Coalition and a key member of the Western Washington sportfishing community. In 2018, he had the rare honor for a nontribal member – let alone a sportfisherman – of attending a Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission meeting. Ron is passionate about advocating for habitat restoration and reconnection in the Stillaguamish River watershed to promote healthy salmon populations, particularly endangered Chinook. His experience also includes serving on several Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife advisory committees and task forces related to marine wildlife. Along with his sportfishing community leadership experience and advocacy, Ron is a self-employed commercial construction business owner. William Frank III served on the Nisqually Tribal Council for many years in several roles, including chairman, and currently serves as chairman of the Wa He Lut Indian School and the Salmon Defense board. He also runs Medicine Creek Tribal Strategies, an independent consulting firm. William is the son of the late Billy Frank Jr., a nationally recognized leader and activist for tribal rights and protecting salmon. His father helped tribes win the landmark 1975 court case that recognized treaty rights and made tribes co-managers of the salmon resource. This court decision completely changed the landscape in Washington after the Fish Wars or 'fish-ins' of the 1960s and 1970s, a series of civil disobedience protests where tribal fishers were arrested, beaten, and jailed for fishing off reservation in their 'usual and accustomed fishing grounds' – as granted by the treaties negotiated in the mid-1800s. As a leader, fisher, and member of the Billy Frank Jr. Salmon Coalition, he carries on his father's legacy of bringing together diverse groups of experts to advocate for salmon and the environment. Cecilia Gobin (dzahdzah'lahk) is a member of the Tulalip Tribes, based in Tulalip, Washington. She is an experienced Policy Analyst, currently working with the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission (NWIFC) where she focuses on the protection and advancement of tribal treaty rights and resources, including habitat protection and salmon recovery. Prior to NWIFC, Cecilia worked in cultural resources for the Tulalip Tribes, and also for the U.S. House of Representatives' House Natural Resources Committee's Office of Indian Affairs, working with policy and legislation related to natural resources and the effects for tribes in Indian Country. She is also a lifetime commercial fisher and remains deeply connected to her community and traditional lifeways. Lisa Wilson has extensive experience in fisheries policy and treaty rights protection. She earned a bachelor's degree in Native Environmental Science from Northwest Indian College, where she produced the documentary Time Immemorial: A Fishing History of the Lummi People as her capstone project. Lisa primarily serves as an elected member of the Lummi Indian Business Council and as vice chair of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission. She is also on the Salmon Defense board, co-chairs the Natural Resources Committee for the Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians and the Lands and Natural Resources Committee for the National Congress of American Indians and is the former Endangered Species Act manager for Lummi Natural Resources. Presented by Town Hall Seattle and the Billy Frank Jr. Salmon Coalition.

This is the fourth episode in a new season of our Main Street NC series. We're visiting communities across the state to hear from local leaders about the issues and challenges they're facing.A few years ago, the Coharie Indian Tribe launched an effort to clean out debris from the Great Coharie River near their headquarters in Sampson County. That led to a unique recreation and tourism initiative where members of the Coharie Tribe lead visitors on guided kayaking trips down the river. WUNC News' Colin Campbell recently hopped in a kayak to learn more about how the program brings tourists to Sampson County, while creating revenue, jobs and a heightened public profile for the 3,000-member American Indian group. Tribal Administrator Greg Jacobs and Coharie River director Philip Bell also discussed the tribe's history, programs and its hopes to eventually join the Lumbee Indians in obtaining federal recognition.

Shaun gives a history lesson on American Indians for Billie Eilish. PLUS, Corinne Cliford, independent journalist, White House Press Corps member and official spokesperson for SAT123.com, talks to Shaun about the fake news, the funding of fake news, and how people are shying away from BOTH political parties. And The Heritage Foundation's Dr. EJ Antoni discusses Brandon Johnson's proposed head tax and how Democrat states have been wasting government assistance for decades.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Photo: Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest in Wisconsin. (Ty Nigh / Flickr) Ojibwe tribes in the Great Lakes region are raising concerns about Trump administration plans to remove a rule that limits road building in national forest land, as Chuck Quirmbach reports. The Roadless Rule is a U.S. Forest Service (USFS) policy that for 25 years has curtailed building or reconstructing roads in the national forests. There have also been limits on commercial timber harvesting in roadless areas that have been inventoried. Last summer, the U.S. Agriculture Department (USDA), which includes USFS, proposed rescinding the Roadless Rule. The department said that would give more decision-making authority to regional forest managers and improve access for fighting fires. But the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission – which serves eleven Ojibwe tribes in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan with treaty-protected hunting, fishing, and gathering rights – backs the Roadless Rule. Commission spokesperson Jenny Van Sickle says agency scientists looked at how the rule has protected five national forests in what is called the Ceded Territory. She says the federal government has a responsibility to enforce treaty rights there. “That’s wild rice. That’s tapping maples for sap to make sugar. These are real activities, they’re not theoretical. These are federal responsibilities that remain in place. So, to try to kick that to regional foresters doesn’t make a lot of sense.” Van Sickle says there are already many roads in the national forests. She says if the Roadless Rule needs amending, the tribes are willing to talk. “If the rule needs work, we want to be at those tables. We want to talk about those problems. We want to get to those solutions. We can do that together. We’ve worked very closely and formally with the Forest Service for nearly 30 years.” A USDA spokesperson says the agency remains committed to a consultation process with the tribes and, if the Roadless Rule ends, land use decisions would still need to comply with specific forest or grassland management plans and other applicable laws – all developed with public involvement. (Courtesy OETA) Tribal leaders responded to Gov. Kevin Stitt (Cherokee/R-OK)'s final State of the State address, which he delivered Monday. Tribal leaders say Gov. Stitt misrepresents tribes. Tribes and the governor have had a rocky relationship, including disagreements over jurisdiction, gaming, and other issues. In his speech, Stitt said all laws should apply equally to all Oklahomans. “Many of us in this room have decried the [diversity, equity, and inclusion] DEI programs of the Biden administration, yet standby quietly when some say an Indian should be subject to a different set of laws.” Choctaw Nation Chief Gary Batton in a statement said tribes and tribal members have sovereign rights, which are not based on race but treaties and other agreements between tribal nations and the U.S. Cherokee Nation Principal Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr. said in a statement that the governor effectively called for the termination of tribal government, calling it rhetoric cloaked in references to DEI and race. Chief Hoskin said fortunately, Stitt spoke to a bipartisan chamber. Both leaders say they look forward to working with the legislature and other elected officials. A number of tribal leaders attended the address. The Interior Department has added the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina to the official list of federally recognized tribes, formalizing the tribe's government-to-government relationship with the U.S. The agency published the updated list in the Federal Register following President Donald Trump's signing of legislation in December granting federal recognition status to the Lumbee Tribe. The list consists of 575 American Indian and Alaska Native tribal entities. Get National Native News delivered to your inbox daily. Sign up for our daily newsletter today. Download our NV1 Android or iOs App for breaking news alerts. Check out the latest episode of Native America Calling Tuesday, February 3, 2026 – National Park Service removing historical references to Native American history

Did you know that there are more than two-thousand American Indian, Native Alaskan, and Native Hawaiian-owned hotels, resorts, restaurants, museums, ski resorts, cultural centers, and even tour companies? In today's episode, learn about indigenous-owned vacation retreats, visiting Native America, Alaska, and Hawaii, and finding blind ski programs.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2026, at 2pm Eastern, in Room 1324 of the Longworth House Office Building, the House Committee on Natural Resources, Subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs, will hold an oversight hearing titled “Making Federal Economic Development Programs Work in Indian Country.” Witnesses Panel I (Outside Experts) The Honorable Hope Silvas Chairwoman Shivwits Band of Paiutes Ivins, Utah The Honorable Rodney Butler (Chairman, Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation) President Native American Finance Officers Association Board of Directors Washington, D.C. Mr. Haven Harris Co-Chair Board of Directors, Native American Contractors Association Anchorage, Alaska Mr. Derrick Watchman (Minority Witness) Chairman The National Center for American Indian Enterprise Development Mesa, Arizona More on Indianz.Com: https://indianz.com/News/2026/02/03/witness-list-making-federal-economic-development-programs-work-in-indian-country/

In response to recent concerns raised across Indian Country, the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) and the Native American Rights Fund (NARF) hosted a “Know Your Rights” webinar about Tribal Citizens, Law Enforcement Encounters, and Practical Steps to Stay Safe. The webinar was held January 28,2026, and included an hour of presentation, followed by questions and answers. Speakers: Larry Wright, Executive Director, National Congress of American Indians Matthew Campbell, Deputy Director, Native American Rights Fund Beth Margaret Wright, Senior Staff Attorney, Native American Rights Fund Leonard Fineday, General Counsel, National Congress of American Indians Know Your Rights: https://narf.org/webinar-know-your-rights/

How are Indigenous communities in the U.S. facing challenges to their ways of life in the current political moment? Focusing on questions concerning repatriation, land access, education, and diverse forms of sovereignty, our panelists explore the intersection of Indigenous religious traditions and law. The discussion begins at the regional level, with specific reference to Chumash contexts, and then expands outward to borderland settings, Oklahoma, the Great Lakes, and the Pacific. The panelists are Greg Johnson, Director, Walter H. Capps Center, Cristina Gonzales, Registrar, Santa Rosa Rancheria, Amrah Salomón, Assistant Professor of English, UCSB, Walter Echo-Hawk, Former President of Pawnee Nation, and Vicente Diaz, Professor of American Indian & Indigenous Studies, UCLA. Series: "Ethics, Religion and Public Life: Walter H. Capps Center Series" [Public Affairs] [Humanities] [Show ID: 41294]

How are Indigenous communities in the U.S. facing challenges to their ways of life in the current political moment? Focusing on questions concerning repatriation, land access, education, and diverse forms of sovereignty, our panelists explore the intersection of Indigenous religious traditions and law. The discussion begins at the regional level, with specific reference to Chumash contexts, and then expands outward to borderland settings, Oklahoma, the Great Lakes, and the Pacific. The panelists are Greg Johnson, Director, Walter H. Capps Center, Cristina Gonzales, Registrar, Santa Rosa Rancheria, Amrah Salomón, Assistant Professor of English, UCSB, Walter Echo-Hawk, Former President of Pawnee Nation, and Vicente Diaz, Professor of American Indian & Indigenous Studies, UCLA. Series: "Ethics, Religion and Public Life: Walter H. Capps Center Series" [Public Affairs] [Humanities] [Show ID: 41294]

How are Indigenous communities in the U.S. facing challenges to their ways of life in the current political moment? Focusing on questions concerning repatriation, land access, education, and diverse forms of sovereignty, our panelists explore the intersection of Indigenous religious traditions and law. The discussion begins at the regional level, with specific reference to Chumash contexts, and then expands outward to borderland settings, Oklahoma, the Great Lakes, and the Pacific. The panelists are Greg Johnson, Director, Walter H. Capps Center, Cristina Gonzales, Registrar, Santa Rosa Rancheria, Amrah Salomón, Assistant Professor of English, UCSB, Walter Echo-Hawk, Former President of Pawnee Nation, and Vicente Diaz, Professor of American Indian & Indigenous Studies, UCLA. Series: "Ethics, Religion and Public Life: Walter H. Capps Center Series" [Public Affairs] [Humanities] [Show ID: 41294]

How are Indigenous communities in the U.S. facing challenges to their ways of life in the current political moment? Focusing on questions concerning repatriation, land access, education, and diverse forms of sovereignty, our panelists explore the intersection of Indigenous religious traditions and law. The discussion begins at the regional level, with specific reference to Chumash contexts, and then expands outward to borderland settings, Oklahoma, the Great Lakes, and the Pacific. The panelists are Greg Johnson, Director, Walter H. Capps Center, Cristina Gonzales, Registrar, Santa Rosa Rancheria, Amrah Salomón, Assistant Professor of English, UCSB, Walter Echo-Hawk, Former President of Pawnee Nation, and Vicente Diaz, Professor of American Indian & Indigenous Studies, UCLA. Series: "Ethics, Religion and Public Life: Walter H. Capps Center Series" [Public Affairs] [Humanities] [Show ID: 41294]

Kevin Browning - Native Indian - War Pony Productions - Portrays American HistoryThe truth about the American Indian tribes and their culture.Stealing mules from the army and settlers.War Pony Productions brings living history to rodeos, festivals, schools, and horse shows.Kevin Browning is a descendant of Quahna Parker, war leader of the Kwahadi ("Antelope") band of the Comanche Nation. Mule Talk is an Every Cowgirl's Dream production - www.EveryCowgirlsDream.Com www.MuleTalk.Net Meredith Hodges Interviews: www.LuckyThreeRanch.Com/Podcast-Appearances/

Throughout 2026, and in partnership with the America 250-Ohio Commission, the City Club will commemorate the 250th anniversary of the United States by exploring all the ways that Ohio has contributed to U.S. history for 250+ years. In January, our state will recognize the unique contributions of Ohio's firsts and originals.rnrnSince day one, and throughout the entirety of our country's formation, Native Americans served as defining threads - and participants - in U.S. politics. Article 1, Section 8 (also known as the "Indian Commerce Clause") in the U.S. Constitution establishes a unique federal-tribal relationship, acknowledging tribal sovereignty and self-governance. Today, it serves as the backbone for federal Indian law, which spans hundreds of years, impacting both tribal and non-tribal communities. What are the landmark moments in history that influenced the trajectory of our nation, particularly in the Great Lakes region? And how are modern Native Nations influencing the growth of the United States today?rnrnMatthew L.M. Fletcher is a leading tribal law expert, and is the Harry Burns Hutchins Collegiate Professor of Law and Professor of American Culture at the University of Michigan. He teaches and writes in the areas of federal Indian law, American Indian tribal law, Anishinaabe legal and political philosophy, constitutional law, federal courts, and legal ethics. He sits as the chief justice of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians, the Pokagon Band of Potawatomi Indians, and the Poarch Band of Creek Indians; as well as an appellate judge for many other tribal nations. Fletcher also co-authored the sixth, seventh, and eighth editions of Cases and Materials on Federal Indian Law and three editions of American Indian Tribal Law, the only casebook for law students on tribal law.

Episode No. 742 features artist Woody De Othello, and artists Jason Garcia, Michael Namingha, and curator Bess Murphy. The Pérez Art Museum Miami is presenting "Woody De Othello: coming forth by day," a presentation of new ceramic and wood sculptures, tiled wall works, and a large-scale bronze, all of which explore the primordial relationship between body, earth, and spirit. The exhibition was organized by Jennifer Inacio with the support of Fabiana A. Sotillo. It is on view in Miami through June 28 after which it will travel to the Manetti Shrem Museum of Art, University of California, Davis. De Othello's sculpture, painting, and drawing often investigate the still life genre. His previous institutional solo exhibition was at The Bowes Museum in the UK. Museums that have featured his work in group shows include the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, the Seattle Art Museum, the University of Michigan Museum of Art, and the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco. The Whitney Museum of American Art included him in its 2022 biennial. Later this year, his work will be featured in a Public Art Fund solo presentation in Brooklyn's Brooklyn Bridge Park. He is an artist trustee of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. Garcia and Murphy are the co-curators of "Tewa Nangeh/Tewa Country" at the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum in Santa Fe. Namingha is among the 13 artists in the exhibition, 12 of whom are from the six Tewa Pueblos of northern New Mexico (Nambé, Ohkay Owingeh, Pojoaque, San Ildefonso, Santa Clara, and Tesuque).  "Tewa Nangeh" presents the work of Tewa artists while highlighting O'Keeffe's erasure of Tewa people. It is on view through September 7. Garcia's work is in the collection of museums such as the Heard Museum in Phoenix, the Art Institute of Chicago, the Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art, Kansas City, and the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian. Namingha's work is also on view through April 5 at the Museum of Indian Arts and Culture, Santa Fe in "Essential Elements: Art, Environment, and Indigenous Futures." The El Paso Museum of Art and the IAIA Museum of Contemporary Native Arts, Santa Fe have featured solo exhibitions of his work; he's been in group shows at museums such as the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, and the Hood Museum of Art, Dartmouth College. Instagram: Woody De Othello, Jason Garcia, Michael Namingha, Tyler Green. Air date: January 22, 2026.

Discover two powerful, free resources available through the library that open doors to rich history and endless reading possibilities! First, Sara dives into a comprehensive digital collection exploring American Indian history—featuring primary sources, landmark treaties, court cases, tribal flags, maps, timelines, videos, slideshows, and in-depth articles organized by tribe, culture area, subject, and era.  Then, Nicole has the latest news on Libby, the go-to app for borrowing e-books, audiobooks, and more. Learn about recent updates to checkout and hold limits, smart etiquette tips to reduce wait times (like returning early or sampling first), the power of the "Notify Me" feature for new titles. Plus details on a brand-new bonus: free access to Ground News right inside the app—a tool that lets you compare coverage across the spectrum, see media bias breakdowns, and read diverse perspectives on the same story without algorithmic bubbles.

An Indigenous woman has penned an award-winning, critically-acclaimed, thought-provoking book, All I See Is Violence (Greenleaf Book Group Press) that has captured the attention of a lot  of people. Several viral posts on Tik Tok about her historical novel have been viewed millions of times and on Instagram, hundreds of thousands. Author Angie Elita Newell has written an intense, poignant, action-packed dramatization of history that leaves readers seeing Indigenous people and history forever differently.The United States government stole the Black Hills from the Sioux, as it stole land from every tribe across North America. Forcibly relocated, American Indians were enslaved under strict land and resource regulations. Newell brings a poignant retelling of the catastrophic, true story of the 1876 Battle of Little Bighorn and the social upheaval that occurred on the Pine Ridge Reservation in 1972 during the height of the American Indian Movement.Cheyenne warrior Little Wolf fights to maintain her people's land and heritage as General Custer leads a devastating campaign against American Indians, killing anyone who refuses to relocate to the Red Cloud Agency in South Dakota. A century later, on that same reservation, Little Wolf's relation Nancy Swiftfox raises four boys with the help of her father-in-law, while facing the economic and social ramifications of this violent legacy.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-unplugged-totally-uncut--994165/support.

Depending upon the narrative, American Indians were either noble creatures who were victims of a genocide by rapacious European settlers or were bloodthirsty savages. The truth is more nuanced.Original article: https://mises.org/mises-wire/american-indians-separating-truth-fiction

Depending upon the narrative, American Indians were either noble creatures who were victims of a genocide by rapacious European settlers or were bloodthirsty savages. The truth is more nuanced.Original article: https://mises.org/mises-wire/american-indians-separating-truth-fiction

On New Year's Eve, America250 Commission Chair Rosie Rios talks about the special celebrations tonight related to the U.S.'s 250th birthday in 2026, New York City & New Orleans are among the cities increasing their New Year's Eve security and world leaders issue New Year's messages; House Republicans schedule a hearing looking at Minnesota social welfare programs fraud, inviting both Republican state lawmakers and Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN) to testify; number of Jeffrey Epstein-related files the Justice Department is working through to release now reportedly tops 5 million; New York City mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani (D) names a new schools chancellor a day before he takes office; former Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (D-CO) has died. We  hear his 2004 remarks at the dedication for the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of the American Indian. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An MPR News-APM Reports investigation found that a Feeding Our Future defendant is connected to taxpayer-funded group homes in the Twin Cities. Prosecutors claim Gandi Abdi Kediye set up GAK Properties and used the company to launder money. He was indicted in 2024.A viral video has been circulating about alleged fraud at some Minnesota day care sites. Minnesota Republicans say they tipped off the independent journalist, YouTube video creator Nick Shirley. Snow plow operators will be out clearing drifts from highways and roads, and the Minnesota Department of Transportation is asking drivers to take their time and give some space around trucks.Bemidji State University has received more than $900,000 from the Midwest Indigenous Immersion Network to develop a framework for Ojibwe language teachers working in K-12 classrooms. Ojibwe is spoken by tribal nations in the northern half the state. The need for licensed Ojibwe teachers is growing. Two and a half years ago, state lawmakers passed a bill requiring the state's elementary and secondary schools to offer American Indian culture and language classes.

When eight-year-old Amy Erdman Farrell moved with her family to Akron, Ohio, in 1972, she found herself adrift in a sea of taunting boys and mean girls. Shy by nature, she dreaded her long, unhappy days at school. But a few years later, Farrell found an escape from bullying, the promise of sisterhood, a rising sense of confidence, adventure, and—best of all—lifelong friendship when she joined a Girl Scout troop. Decades later, award-winning author Dr. Farrell returns to those formative experiences to explore the complicated and surprising history of the Girl Scouts of the USA.Drawing from extensive archival research, visits to iconic Girl Scout sites around the world, and vivid personal reflections, in Intrepid Girls: The Complicated History of the Girl Scouts of the USA (University of North Carolina Press, 2025) Dr. Farrell uncovers the Girl Scouts intricate history, revealing how the organization has shaped the lives of more than 50 million girls and women since its founding in 1912. With Dr. Farrell as our own intrepid guide, we travel to American Indian boarding schools, Japanese American incarceration centers, segregated African American communities, middle-class white neighborhoods, and outposts throughout the globe. Intrepid Girls unpacks how the Girl Scouts navigated tensions over feminism, race, class, and political differences, carving out extraordinary opportunities for girls and women—even as it participated in the very discrimination it promised to transcend.For anyone who has ever worn a uniform or wondered about the hidden history behind this iconic American institution, Intrepid Girls will surprise, inspire, and challenge what we think we know about the Girl Scouts. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda's interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

This time - Simon Moya Smith and Julie Francella talk about Thomas King - an award-winning Canadian-American author whose career was tied to his apparent indigenous ancestry. He has recently learned that he has no Cherokee roots. The announcement follows a November meeting with King and members of the Tribal Alliance Against Frauds, a US-based group dedicated to exposing people who falsely claim American Indian heritage. And they discuss Elaine Miles, an Indigenous actor best known for her roles in “Northern Exposure,” “Smoke Signals,” “Wyvern” and “The Last of Us”. While she was walking, 4 men wearing masks and vests with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement labels stepped out of two black SUVs with no front plates and pressed her for her ID. She handed them her tribal ID from the Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation in Oregon. The agents called it "FAKE". Federal government agencies recognize tribal ID as a valid form of identification, and Miles has used it to travel back and forth to Canada and Mexico without any issues - until now. Plenty of great callers and topics in this inspiring episode!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The famous country music venue and radio show “The Grand Ole Opry” turns 100 years old today. Grand Ole Opry host Charlie Mattos and country music star Mandy Barnett share some big moments from the institution's long history.And, the Menominee Indian Tribe of Wisconsin reburied the remains of 67 ancestors that were excavated in the 1960s and held for decades by the Milwaukee Public Museum. The Association on American Indian's Shannon O'Loughlin — also a member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma — talks about the decades-long fight for Native American repatriation. David Grignon, a tribal elder and historic preservation officer with the Menominee Tribe of Wisconsin, also joins us.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The American Indian leader Wakara was among the most influential and feared men in the nineteenth-century American West. He and his pan-tribal cavalry of horse thieves and slave traders dominated the Old Spanish Trail, the region’s most important overland route. They widened the trail and expanded its watering holes, reshaping the environmental and geographical boundaries of the region. They also exacted tribute from travelers passing along the trail and assisted the trail’s explorers with their mapmaking projects—projects that shaped the political and cultural boundaries of the West. What’s more, as the West’s greatest horse thief and horse trader as well as the region’s most prolific trader in enslaved Indians, Wakara supplied Spanish, Mexican, and Anglo-American settlers from Santa Fe to San Bernardino with the labor and horsepower that fueled empire and settler colonial expansion as well as fueled great changes to the West’s environmental landscape.Today’s guest is Max Mueller, author of of Wakara’s America: The Life and Legacy of a Native Founder of the American West. We look at his complex and sometimes paradoxical story, revealing a man who both helped build the settler American West and defended Native sovereignty. Wakara was baptized a Mormon and allied with Mormon settlers against other Indians to seize large parts of modern-day Utah. Yet a pan-tribal uprising against the Mormons that now bears Wakara’s name stalled and even temporarily reversed colonial expansion. Through diplomacy and through violence, Wakara oversaw the establishment of settlements, built new trade routes, and helped create the boundaries that still define the region. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mary Golda Ross was the first Indigenous woman in the U.S. known to have become an engineer. Her impact on the field of aerospace engineering is hard to quantify, because much of her work is still classified. Research: Agnew, Brad. “Cherokee engineer a space exploration pioneer.” Tahlequah Daily Press. 3/27/2016. https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/golda-ross-left-teaching-to-support-war-effort/article_c500cbc4-eeba-11e5-9b57-2b127651fcb5.html Agnew, Brad. “Golda’ Ross left teaching to support war effort.” Tahlequah Daily Press. 3/20/2016. https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/news/golda-ross-left-teaching-to-support-war-effort/article_c500cbc4-eeba-11e5-9b57-2b127651fcb5.html Brewer, Graham Lee. “Rocket Woman.” Oklahoma Today. July/August 2018. Cochran, Wendell. “Cherokee Tear Dress Facts.” The People’s Paths. https://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Cherokee/WendellCochran/WCochran0102TearDressFacts.htm Hogner-Weavel, Tonia. “History of the Cherokee Tear Dress.” Cherokee Nation. Via YouTube. 9/15/2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90V5fM0DiMk Lake, Timothy. "Mary Golda Ross". Encyclopedia Britannica, 5 Aug. 2025, https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mary-Golda-Ross. Accessed 21 October 2025. Margolis, Emily. A. “Mary Golda Ross: Aerospace Engineer, Educator, and Advocate.” Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/mary-g-ross-aerospace-engineer Museum of Native American History. “Historic Trailblazer: Mary Golda Ross.” Via YouTube. 12/17/2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzC14hGbPug National Park Service. “Mary G. Ross.” https://www.nps.gov/people/mary-g-ross.htm New Mexico Museum of Space History. “Mary Golda Ross: First Native American Aerospace Engineer.” Via YouTube. 3/31/2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT9r5trwZEs Oklahoma Hall of Fame. “Mary Golda Ross Induction Ceremony Video.” 11/22/2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bovabx6ITW4 Rosengren, Paul Lief. “Mary Golda Ross: She Reached for the Stars.” IEEE-USA and Paul Lief Rosengren. 2025. Schroeder, Mildred. “A Far-out Cherokee Chick.” San Francisco Examiner. 4/16/1961. Smith, Betty. “Pure Cherokee Gold.” Tahlequah Daily Press. 6/26/2008. https://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/archives/pure-cherokee-gold/article_44c0a25a-94e2-53d8-b80c-be1ff86305e7.html Viola, Herman. “Mary Golda Ross: She Reached for the Stars.” American Indian: Magazine of Smithsonian’s National Museum of the American Indian. Vol. 19, No. 4. Winter 2018. https://www.americanindianmagazine.org/story/mary-golda-ross-she-reached-stars Wallace, Rob. “Mary Golda Ross and the Skunk Works.” National World War II Museum. 11/19/2021. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/mary-golda-ross-and-skunk-works Watts, Jennifer. “John Ross: Principal Chief of the Cherokee People.” Tennessee State Museum. https://tnmuseum.org/junior-curators/posts/john-ross-principal-chief-of-the-cherokee-people Yang, John. “The cutting-edge work of Native American aerospace engineer Mary Golda Ross.” 11/26/2023. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-cutting-edge-work-of-native-american-aerospace-engineer-mary-golda-ross Zhorov, Irina. “Years Later, Miss Indian America Pageant Winners Reuniteg.” NPR Code Switch. 7/12/2013. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/07/12/201537264/Years-Later-Miss-Indian-America-Pageant-Winners-Reunite See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the story of a three-year-old girl and the highest court in the land. The Supreme Court case Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl is a legal battle that has entangled a biological father, a heart-broken couple, and the tragic history of Native American children taken from their families. We originally released this story back in 2013, when that girl's fate was still in the balance of various legal decisions. We thought now was a good time to bring the story back, because the Act at the center of the story is still being questioned.When then-producer Tim Howard first read about this case, it struck him as a sad but seemingly straightforward custody dispute. But, as he started talking to lawyers and historians and the families involved in the case, it became clear that it was much more than that. Because Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl challenges parts of the 1978 Indian Child Welfare Act, this case puts one little girl at the center of a storm of legal intricacies, Native American tribal culture, and heart-wrenching personal stakes.LATERAL CUTS:What Up Holmes?The GatekeeperEPISODE CREDITS:Reported by - Tim HowardProduced by - Tim HowardEPISODE CITATIONS (so many):Background and Reporting from a range of different perspectives"Couple forced to give up daughter"An introductory article by Allyson Bird, for the Charleston, SC Post and Courier"Supreme Court Takes on Indian Child Welfare Act in Baby Veronica Case" A report for Indian Country Today by Suzette Brewer, who has also written a two-part series on the case."Supreme Court hears Indian child custody case"Tulsa World article by Michael Overall which includes Dusten Brown's account of his break-up with Veronica's mother, and his understanding about his custodial rights. Plus photos of Dusten, Veronica, and Dusten's wife Robin in their Oklahoma home_._Randi Kaye's report for CNN on the background of the case, and interviews with Melanie and Matt Capobianco: "Video: Adoption custody battle for Veronica"Nina Totenberg's report for NPR: "Adoption Case Brings Rare Family Law Dispute To High Court"Reporting by NPR's Laura Sullivan and Amy Walters on current ICWA violations in South Dakota.Dr. Phil's coverage: "Adoption Controversy: Battle over Baby Veronica"Analysis and EditorialsOp-ed by Veronica's birth mom, Christy Maldonado, in the Washington Post: "Baby Veronica belongs with her adoptive parents"Colorlines report "The Cherokee Nation's Baby Girl Goes on Trial:"Americans remain dangerously uninformed about the basics of tribal sovereignty, and what it means for the relationship between the United States and Native tribes and nations.The Weekly Standard's Ethan Epstein argues that ICWA is "being used to tear [families] apart]: "Mistreating Native American Children"Andrew Cohen considers the trickier legal aspects of the case for the Atlantic in "Indian Affairs, Adoption, and Race: The Baby Veronica Case Comes to Washington:"A little girl is at the heart of a big case at the Supreme Court next week, a racially-tinged fight over Native American rights and state custody laws.Marcia Zug's breakdown of the case (Marica Zug is an associate professor of law at the University of South Carolina School of Law who she specializes in family and American Indian law) "Doing What's Best for the Tribe" for Slate:Two-year-old “Baby Veronica” was ripped from the only home she's known. The court made the right decision.Marcia Zug for the Michigan Law Review: "Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl: Two-and-a-Half WAys To Destroy Indian Law"From Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute's Center for Constitutional Studies: "The Constitutional Flaws of the Indian Child Welfare Act"Rapid City Journal columnist David Rooks poses a set of tough questions about ICWA: "ROOKS: Questions unasked, unanswered"Editorial coverage from The New York Times:"A Wrenching Adoption Case""Adoptive Parents vs. Tribal Rights"Contemporary, Historic, and Legal Source MaterialsAdoptive Couple v. Baby Girl on the SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) BlogAudio from the oral arguments in the Supreme CourtOfficial website for ICWA (the federal Indian Child Welfare Act)1974 Hearings Before the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs "on problems that American Indian families face in raising their children and how these problems are affected by federal action or inaction." PDFThe National Indian Child Welfare AssociationThe First Nations Repatriation Institute, which works with and does advocacy for adopteesSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.