Podcasts about storybrand

If you've been wondering whether your business will ever really get off the ground, or sometimes feel like you're the only one struggling, this conversation is for you.In this episode, I talk to my friend and colleague Jennie Lakenan about overcoming fear, building a business, and continuing to move forward even when life feels messy. As a web designer, certified StoryBrand Guide, and certified life coach who has built more than 150 websites over the last eight years, Jennie combines design, messaging, and coaching to help business owners navigate growth and the challenges of putting themselves out there.You'll hear Jennie's story of overcoming a long-standing fear of driving one small step at a time, and how you can apply that same method to business growth. We also discuss life balance, how Jennie approached growing her family while being the primary breadwinner, and why progress often comes from moving forward even when you don't feel completely ready.Whether you're facing a fear, contemplating a big decision, or trying to grow your business without expecting too much of yourself, Jennie's journey will remind you that small steps can add up more than you imagine.What you'll learn:How Jennie made the decision to pursue her business full-time while raising young childrenWhy an element of trust or faith is essential when making decisions and how it can look different for everyoneHow Jennie worked through her fear of driving without expecting herself to overcome it all at onceWhy the “go big” approach isn't always the right choice for sustainable business growthPractical business advice to help you clarify your messaging and let go of perfectionYou can read the full show notes here.About Jennie LakenanJennie Lakenan is the go-to web designer for life coaches who want to have an amazing online presence. When she discovered coaching in 2018, her life transformed for the better. She quickly saw the need in the coaching industry for website services for coaches, and founded her design agency. As a certified StoryBrand guide and life coach, her mission is to get more coaching into the world by helping other coaches to promote and grow their businesses via extraordinary websites and strategic marketing.Website: jennielakenan.comInstagram: instagram.com/jennielakenanFacebook: facebook.com/jennielakenanYouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCMQXwBS2p1g22dNAtg5TFlQCoach Website Blueprint: jennielakenan.com/blueprintConnect with Molly ClaireAre you ready to create a signature program, clarify your niche and messaging, and develop a compelling offer you can confidently sell? I'm currently enrolling private clients for one-to-one coaching and would love to support you. Email team@mollyclaire.com to request an application.Get the book: She Rises: Insights and Wisdom from the Women of The Masterful Coach CollectiveMolly's Website: MollyClaire.ComMaster Coach Training Application OpenHave a question or thoughts about the podcast? Don't hesitate to contact Molly at:Instagram | Molly Claire Coaching IGmolly@mollyclaire.comFacebookMolly's book: The Happy Mom Mindset: mollyclaire.com/book Free resources:Learn the 4 fundamentals of Lasting ChangePlease help Molly reach even more like-minded individuals! Simply post a review of the podcast on your favorite platform (or two). It is so appreciated.Are you a leader, coach, or business owner who wants to inspire, influence, and cultivate lasting change in yourself or others? Unlock your full potential as a leader and coach with the 4 fundamentals of lasting change coach training program.

What if the problem isn't your business? What if the problem is that you're trying to force yourself into a life you no longer want? In this episode, we have an honest conversation about something most business owners never talk about: what happens when you hate being a business owner. Some people are struggling because they simply haven't figured out their numbers yet. They love being a business owner but need to understand their Profit & Loss, pricing, debt, cash flow, and profitability. Others hate every aspect of business ownership. They hate sales. They hate marketing. They hate managing people. They hate the pressure and responsibility. Those are two completely different situations. The question is: Which bucket are you in? Today we're talking about how to know the difference and what to do next.

Are you a therapist struggling with your marketing? Are you wondering why your potential clients aren't booking consultations? In today's episode, I dive deep into the one puzzle piece you might be missing in your marketing: talking about your client's problems. In this replay episode, I'm sharing why pinpointing and empathizing with your clients' issues is not manipulative but essential if you want to connect with those seeking help. I'll guide you through understanding your clients' perspectives, using their language, and positioning yourself as the solution they've been searching for. Plus actionable steps and resources that could transform your marketing approach, ensuring that your message resonates with the right people. Tune in to learn how to make your private practice stand out and attract the clients who need you most. Don't let another potential client slip through the cracks - tune in now and start making a real difference with your marketing!Topics covered on this episode: Why is it crucial for therapists to talk about clients' problems in their marketingThe fears therapists have about focusing on client problems, and how these can be addressedHow understanding a potential client's specific struggles can lead to better engagementCommon mistakes therapists make in their marketing, and how can they be fixedSteps can you take to ensure your marketing resonates on an emotional level with potential clientsThe simple challenge you can undertake this week to improve your connection with potential clients through social mediaConnect with Felicia:Get my freebie & join the email list: The Magic SheetsInstagram: @the_bad_therapistWebsite: www.thebadtherapist.coachResources from this episode:Building a StoryBrand by Donald MillerRelated episodes:How to Build a Strategic Website That Will Bring More Clients to Your Practice With Sarah Busse [Ep 30]Quote:"Talking about your client's problem isn't manipulative. It's the first moment where we convey to them that we see them, we appreciate the pain they're in as they experience it right now, and we genuinely want to help them." - Felicia

Most business owners are busy. The question is: are they actually successful? In this episode, we talk about one of the biggest traps small business owners fall into—confusing activity with progress. Just because you're working long hours, running from job to job, and staying busy every day doesn't mean your business is growing or becoming more profitable. We discuss the difference between working IN your business versus working ON your business, why so many owners avoid looking at their numbers, and how failing to carve out time for planning keeps them stuck in the same cycle year after year. You'll learn why protecting time to review your business, improve systems, develop your team, and understand your Profit & Loss report may be the most important work you do all week. If you're tired of spinning your wheels and ready to build a more profitable business, this episode is for you. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Donald Miller is one of the most influential voices in branding, marketing, and business storytelling. As the bestselling author of Building a StoryBrand, he has helped entrepreneurs, corporations, and even government organizations clarify their messaging and connect more effectively with customers. In this episode, Travis breaks down the biggest lessons he learned from his conversation with Donald, covering everything from simplifying your message and leveraging AI to the power of storytelling, positioning, and relentless optimism. On this episode we talk about: Why confusion kills sales and simplicity wins customers How AI can accelerate your work without replacing human judgment and creativity The role of "delusional optimism" in entrepreneurship and long-term success Why businesses should position themselves as the guide rather than the hero How Pixar's storytelling process reveals the importance of structure and planning Top 3 Takeaways If people have to work to understand your message, you've already lost them. Simplifying your communication is one of the fastest ways to improve sales and customer engagement. AI is a powerful tool for creating drafts and generating ideas, but great results still depend on human judgment, taste, and decision-making. Successful entrepreneurs combine strong belief with relentless action. Optimism alone isn't enough—it must be paired with consistent execution. Notable Quotes "Confusion is the enemy. Simplicity is the game." "AI is a dirty, rough draft machine, not a replacement for genius." "Delusional optimism is a feature, not a bug." Connect with Donald Miller: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donaldmiller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ Other: https://storybrand.com Book: Building a StoryBrand 2.0 A Word from Our Sponsors: - Are you ready to start your own creatorjourney and make it big? Visitwww.fanvue.com today and launch yourcareer! - To learn more about Mode Mobile and its investor community, go to https://invest.modemobile.com/travismakesmoney⁠ -Travis Makes Money is made possible by High Level – the All-In-One Sales & Marketing Platform built for agencies, by an agency.Capture leads, nurture them, and close more deals—all from one powerful platform.Get an extended free trial at gohighlevel.com/travis Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The digital marketing landscape has been revolutionized by algorithm updates and the rise of AI-generated content, making Meta ads increasingly difficult and costly while eroding consumer trust. Guest Rebecca Bertoldi, a StoryBrand certified guide, introduces her low-cost, high-value Growth and Collaboration Club as the essential solution, arguing that warm-introduction collaborations are the new advertisements. She reveals how applying StoryBrand's framework to find your "magic words" and focusing on low cognitive load messaging is now prioritized by platforms and can lead to massive sales boosts, demonstrating a 99% increase case study. Tune in to learn how to pivot from ineffective ad spend to strategic partnerships, master simple, trust-building communication, and leverage this vibrant community for networking, skill sprints, and finding power partners who can instantly scale your business.Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! https://superbrandpublishing.com/podcast/

If you are an accomplished coach with decades of experience, credentials, and a track record that earns you respect in every room, but you cannot seem to land paying clients, this video is going to show you exactly why. The problem is not your niche, your marketing, or your people. The problem is that you are too brilliant for the words you are using.If you're new to my channel, my name is Debbie Shadid. I'm a Business Growth and Life Coach and the founder of the Business Building Boutique. For over two decades, I've helped women learn how to become coaches, get clients, grow their businesses, and create meaningful income doing work they love.Yesterday I had four consultation calls with four different brilliant women. Two were global leaders. All four had the credentials, the methodology, and the published work to back them up. And all four came to me saying the same thing: I cannot sell my coaching. Every one of them was missing the same small but critical thing, and once they saw it, the gap between their work and the world finally made sense.In this video, we'll walk through:Why being the smartest person in your niche can quietly cost you clientsThe exact moment your ideal client clicks away from your website and what you need to fix before they doWhy your peers and your boardroom can understand you perfectly while your ideal client cannotThe difference between speaking your language and speaking your client's language (and why expertise lives in both)How Donald Miller's caveman language principle from StoryBrand applies to your coaching marketingWhy hiring a professional copywriter or website designer might not be saving you (it didn't save my four callers either)The simple translation exercise that could be the difference between invisibility and your first clientThis is not about downplaying your expertise. It is about making your brilliance accessible to the very person you are meant to help. When you translate your work into language they understand, you become more of an expert in their eyes, not less.Want me to help you simplify your message and finally get clients? Join my free workshop here: https://debbieshadid.com/workshopConnect with me, Debbie Shadid:Website: https://www.debbieshadid.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/debbieshadid/Listen to the Podcast:Life Coach Business Building School Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/life-coach-business-building-school-with-debbie-shadid/id1502118085Subscribe for weekly episodes on building your coaching business, finding clients, and creating the life you actually want: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz6RS8kQGMLJqJrK9uKdjtgIf this video was helpful, share it with a coach who has the credentials but can't seem to get the clients. Subscribe and hit the bell so you don't miss next week's episode on building a coaching business that actually pays.Disclaimer: Some links above may be affiliate links. I only recommend products I personally use and love.Let's connect!Website: https://www.debbieshadid.com Instagram @debbieshadidSubscribe on YouTube#DebbieShadid #LifeCoachBusinessBuildingSchool 

Send us Fan MailJames Ashford sold GoProposal to Sage for an eight-figure sum. People hear that and picture a clean line from idea to payday. It took him two decades, several businesses that died along the way, and one moment where he couldn't afford the fee to shut a company down.He started as a wedding magician, walking straight up to the rowdiest table in the room on purpose. What he learned there became the thing every later business ran on. The failures came too: an agency he loved, gone over a single decision. A marriage under strain. A debt a friend had to cover for him.Then a mentor asked him one blunt question, and the answer changed how he built everything after.The part people don't see coming is what the exit actually did to him. The win arrived, and so did something he hadn't planned for. He talks about it more honestly here than most founders ever will, including the redefinition of "wealth" he landed on at the end, which is not the one he set out chasing.If you're building something you hope to sell, or you already have and it feels stranger than you expected, this one's worth your time.What Alan and James get into:Why he targeted the worst table in the room, every timeThe agency that went under from one bad call, and what it cost him beyond moneyThe liquidation he couldn't pay for himselfA million-pound cheque pinned to a bedroom ceiling years before it meant anythingThe mentor question that rearranged his whole approachHow he picked who would buy his company long before they knew they wouldThe second Range Rover he ordered and sent straight backThe thing nobody warns you about on the other side of an exitThe definition of "true wealth" he arrived at, and how late it cameConnect with JamesWebsite: https://jamesashford.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesashford/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejamesashfordTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@fireproofjamesJames's bookSelling to ServeOther Book Recommendations:Building a StoryBrand by Donald MillerThe E-Myth Revisited by Michael GerberThe Psychology of Money by Morgan HouselRich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert KiyosakiThe Richest Man in Babylon by George S. ClasonTony Robbins' Money: Master the GameThis podcast is produced by TribunistaSponsored by Capital Partners

"I've been looking for this kind of clarity in my life." In this episode, Tim talks with April Sunshine Hawkins (Former Co-Host of the Marketing Made Simple Podcast and Storybrand Private Workshop Instructor) about why most marketing fails and how to craft messages that actually resonate. April brings deep expertise from teaching the StoryBrand framework worldwide, plus insights on the internal blocks that sabotage even the smartest business owners. In this episode, Tim and April cover: • Why cognitive load kills your marketing—and how speaking in insider jargon instantly loses your audience • The PEACE framework that transforms confusing websites into customer magnets in five simple steps • How fear and ego create marketing that serves the business instead of the customer—and what self-awareness has to do with better sales Don't miss April's breakdown of why "people like us do things like this" means you should stop trying to appeal to everyone and start speaking directly to your ideal customer—because a message for everyone is a message for no one. —— Links from this episode: Q&A Episode: http://itsfiretime.com/ask —— Watch this podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/z_2bFUzpx4w Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fire-time-podcast/id1433804268 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4vHdzg48bE5qFf0KjMeMej?si=7b6cae3923d348f2 Read The Fire Time Magazine: https://www.itsfiretime.com/magazine Subscribe to The Fire Time Magazine: https://itsfiretime.com/subscribe Support The Fire Time Podcast financially: https://www.itsfiretime.com/join

In today's episode, we'll dive into a fascinating twist on the e-commerce journey — what happens when you buy back the very brand you once sold. Ben will share the lessons, emotions, and strategic insights behind exiting — and then re-entering — your own business. Highlight Bullets> Here's a glimpse of what you would learn…. Ben Leonard's entrepreneurial journey with Beast Gear, from initial investment to seven-figure exit.Challenges faced after selling Beast Gear to Thrasio, including mismanagement and loss of brand identity.Importance of effective inventory management and the consequences of overleveraging.The significance of building a genuine consumer brand beyond basic Amazon tactics.The role of intellectual property protection and the impact of neglecting it.Insights on the operational difficulties during the COVID-19 pandemic and its effects on e-commerce.Strategies for diversifying sales channels and avoiding dependency on a single platform.The importance of quality in products and overall business operations.Marketing strategies for brand awareness, including the use of influencers and social media.Lessons learned from reacquiring and reviving a brand in a competitive market.In this episode of the Ecomm Breakthrough Podcast, host Josh Hadley speaks with entrepreneur Ben Leonard, who built Beast Gear into a seven-figure brand before selling it to aggregator Thrasio. Then buying it back after mismanagement caused revenue to collapse. Ben reveals how Thrasio abandoned the brand-building strategies that drove Beast Gear's success, mishandled inventory, and neglected intellectual property protection. He shares lessons on diversifying beyond Amazon, maintaining product quality, and building genuine customer communities. Ben also discusses his new dad-focused baby carrier brand, Tuco, and offers actionable advice on scaling e-commerce businesses sustainably.Here are the 3 action items that Josh identified from this episode:Build a brand, not just an Amazon listing Engage customers off-Amazon (TikTok, email, events) and create a loyal community—not just traffic.Treat inventory like risk, not just growth Forecast per SKU, avoid over-ordering, and ensure sell-through within ~6 months to prevent cash flow disasters.Diversify early and protect your moat Expand beyond Amazon (Shopify + social channels) and actively enforce IP to protect your brand from copycats.Timestamps:00:00:34 Introduction to the EpisodeThe host introduces the guest, Ben Leonard, and the topic: buying back his brand after selling it to an aggregator.00:02:14 The Brand's Decline Under New OwnershipBen confirms his brand crashed after he sold it to the aggregator Thrasio due to mismanagement and operational failures.00:05:41 The "Magic" Thrasio IgnoredBen explains his original success came from building a true brand with customer relationships, which the new owners dismantled.00:09:27 The Financial FalloutBen reveals the brand's revenue plummeted from $6 million to about half a million dollars under Thrasio's ownership.00:13:13 Three Key Mistakes by the AggregatorThe host summarizes Thrasio's critical errors: inventory mismanagement, ignoring off-Amazon branding, and failing to protect intellectual property.00:19:51 Why You Must Diversify Beyond AmazonBen stresses the need for Amazon sellers to act like real brands and diversify channels to build a sustainable business.00:22:23 The Revival Playbook for Beast GearBen outlines his bootstrapped strategy to revive the brand, focusing on TikTok Shop and rebuilding community goodwill on a budget.00:27:08 Launching a New Brand: TucoThe conversation shifts to Ben's new venture, Tuco, a baby carrier startup designed specifically for dads.00:32:22 When to Implement Brand Awareness StrategiesBen and Josh discuss when a brand should start investing in top-of-funnel marketing and diversifying beyond its primary channel.00:37:40 Three Actionable Takeaways for Brand OwnersThe host summarizes key lessons: diversify with solid processes, avoid inventory leverage, and work with creators for brand awareness.00:42:13 Ben's Final Three QuestionsBen shares his most influential book (The E-Myth), favorite AI tool (Claude), and an e-commerce professional to follow.00:45:51 How to Connect with BenBen shares the best places for listeners to find him online, primarily LinkedIn and his personal email address.Resources mentioned in this episode:Josh Hadley on LinkedIneComm Breakthrough ConsultingeComm Breakthrough PodcastEmail Josh Hadley: Josh@eCommBreakthrough.comTools and Websites"Shopify": "00:03:03""Amazon": "00:03:03""TikTok": "00:09:54""YouTube": "00:19:51""TikTok Shop": "00:23:10""Meta Ads": "00:24:07""WordPress": "00:35:58""Email Marketing": "00:36:33""Claude (AI Tool)": "00:43:03""LinkedIn": "00:45:09""Ecomm Breakthrough Website": "00:46:24"Books"Quit Stalling and Build Your Own Brand by Ben Leonard": "00:01:01""Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller": "00:21:31""The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber": "00:42:25"Videos"Brand Rescue Mission": "00:08:17""Escaping the Amazon Goldfish Bowl": "00:19:51"Podcasts"Operators Podcast": "00:09:54"Other Mentions"Forbes": "00:01:01""Peregrine Commerce": "00:25:41""Sean Cowie": "00:44:09"Episode Sponsor:This episode is brought to you by eComm Breakthrough Consulting where I help seven-figure e-commerce owners grow to eight figures. I started my business in 2015 and grew it to an eight-figure brand in seven years.I made mistakes along the way that made the path to eight figures longer. At times I doubted whether our business could even survive and become a real brand. I wish I would have had a guide to help me grow faster and avoid the stumbling blocks.If ...

How to Find the Sentence That Makes Buyers Stop Scrolling Your offer is solid. Your audience is there. So why are the right people still scrolling past you? Your messaging isn't giving them a reason to stop. Donald Miller, founder of StoryBrand, walked into a $300 million oil and gas company, gave them a three-word tagline, and drove a 99% lift in their test market. In this episode, he shares his PACE framework, the five soundbites every business needs, and the three questions buyers silently ask in the first five seconds on your homepage. Your messaging fix starts here. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Revenue highs are exciting. The unexplainable dips that follow? Not so much. If your coaching, course, or membership business is at $150K or more, the problem isn't that things aren't working. It's that you can't yet see what is. And you can't repeat what you can't see. My free Live training, The Revenue Consistency Formula, fixes that. Click here to learn what's actually behind your numbers and how to bank on them. StoryBrand Messaging Intervention by StoryBrand Donald Miller on Instagram HERE ARE THE 3 KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE: 1️⃣ Build Your Messaging Around the PACE Framework — Donald Miller's PACE framework gives you five soundbites to anchor every piece of marketing you create: Problem, Answer, Change, End result, plus Empathy. When you build all five and use them consistently, you give your audience one clear story across your homepage, your emails, and every social post you publish. 2️⃣ People Only Buy What Helps Them Survive — Every product anyone has ever bought, they bought to increase their chances of survival. That's why Donald says your soundbite has to position you as a survival asset. When your messaging makes the right person feel you're moving them closer to the security and growth they're after, they stop scrolling and listen. 3️⃣ Pass the Five-Second Test on Your Homepage — When someone lands on your website, you have five seconds to answer three silent questions. What do you offer, how will it make my life better, and what do I do to buy it. Open your homepage right now, read it for five seconds, close the tab, and check if you can answer all three. That gap is often where your sales are leaking.MORE FROM ME Follow me on Instagram @amyporterfield SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW If you loved this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts! Your support helps us reach more entrepreneurs who need these insights.

"The customer doesn't want to hear your story—they want to hear how you can solve their problem." In this episode, Tim sits down with Robert Schnell (Principal, Arctic Sales) fresh from a StoryBrand marketing intensive in Nashville to unpack the messaging frameworks that actually drive sales. Robert brings eight years of experience applying these principles in the complex lighting industry, offering concrete insights for fireplace retailers ready to transform their marketing approach. In this episode, Tim and Robert cover: • Why making your customer the hero—not your company—is the foundation of all effective marketing and how this simple shift changes everything • The critical importance of owning your customer's problem by articulating it more clearly than they can, because clarity about the problem creates clarity about the solution • How persistent follow-up systems (think 104 touchpoints, not just three) keep you top of mind when customers finally experience their problem again Don't miss their breakdown of why most marketing fails before it starts and the specific tactics—from mini-books to quarterly service reminders—that turn lukewarm prospects into loyal customers who see you as the obvious choice. —— Links from this episode: WhyFire Pro: http://whyfire.com —— Watch this podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/9O30LMu2vDs Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-fire-time-podcast/id1433804268 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4vHdzg48bE5qFf0KjMeMej?si=7b6cae3923d348f2 Read The Fire Time Magazine: https://www.itsfiretime.com/magazine Subscribe to The Fire Time Magazine: https://itsfiretime.com/subscribe Support The Fire Time Podcast financially: https://www.itsfiretime.com/join

You've worked on your messaging. You've used AI to help clean it up. You've rewritten your bio three times. And still, the right people aren't responding.Here's the problem Adam and Jess zero in on in this episode: most coaches are writing from where they are, not from where their people are. That gap is costing you conversations, clients, and trust.This is Part 3 of the Maslow Mountain series, and it's probably the one you've been waiting for. Parts 1 and 2 built the foundation of understanding your avatar and nailing your payoff. This episode is where it all lands, because if your messaging doesn't meet your person on the level of the mountain they're actually standing on, none of the rest of it matters.The conversation gets specific fast. Jess flags the "I help blank do blank" formula as the single most common messaging mistake coaches make, not because the structure is wrong but because the language is always too generic, too aspirational, and too far from where the person actually is right now. Adam pulls in the psychographic lens: what does your avatar think, feel, and need at this exact moment? Those are the three questions that need to drive every piece of messaging you put into the world.They also get honest about AI. It's a great thought partner. It's a lousy content creator unless you've done the foundational human work first. And in a world where people can now feel the difference between a real person's message and a generated one, leaning on AI without that foundation isn't just ineffective. It actively erodes trust.What you'll take away from this episode:Why "I help [avatar] achieve [outcome]" is killing your conversions and what to replace it withThe specific question you need to answer before writing a single word of messaging: where is your avatar on the mountain right now?Why aspirational language repels the very people you're trying to attractHow to remove ego from your messaging without removing yourself from itThe difference between specificity and complexity (and why your audience wants one, not both)What Taki Moore gets right that most coaches get completely wrong about authentic messagingWhy storytelling outperforms information dumping every single time, on social, on stage, and everywhere elseThe big idea:Your messaging has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with them. The coaches who land clients consistently aren't the most credentialed or the most polished. They're the ones whose words make their ideal client think, "How did they know that's exactly where I am right now?" That feeling is trust. And trust is what closes.Notable quote:"Stop the peacocking and just really start being you. Even if you're a manatee." — Jess WebberResources Mentioned:Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller (referenced: guide vs. hero positioning)Taki Moore — go watch his recent reels for a masterclass in authentic, avatar-first messagingILC Community: ilovecoachingco.comInstagram: @ilovecoachingco / @adamrroach / @thejesswebberYouTube: youtube.com/@ilovecoachingcoTimestamps:[00:00] Opening: Episode 3 of Maslow Mountain and the messaging problem[00:29] Why AI is a copilot, not a content creator[02:37] What happens when you rely solely on AI for messaging[04:10] The "I help blank do blank" trap[05:30] Think and feel: the two messaging filters that build trust[06:36] Why specificity is the trust builder (and it doesn't mean fancy language)[08:26] Push pause: your one action item from this episode[09:01] Active cringe face and why aspirational language misses the mark[11:00] Social media is not about you, full stop[12:53] The hero vs. guide shift (Donald Miller reference)[14:00] Jess's keynote story: what happened when she removed the info dump[15:50] Taki Moore as a case study in authentic positional messaging[18:28] Authenticity vs. ego: the distinction that changes everything[20:57] The peacocking problem and the permission to stop[22:43] Preview: Part 4 is coming, and it's about letting your message work without youJoin the Community:Ready to build a coaching business where the right people actually find you? The ILC community is where coaches stop guessing at their messaging and start building something that works. Head over to ilovecoachingco.com.

Gas prices go up… so should your prices go up too? This is a question many small business owners are asking, and the answer is not always simple. Today, we break down the pros and cons of passing along higher gas costs to your customers. You will learn when it makes sense to raise prices, when it might hurt your business, and how to think through the decision using your numbers. Pricing should never be based on emotion or panic. It should be based on understanding your costs, your margins, and your overall profitability. If you want to protect your profits and make smart pricing decisions, this is a conversation you need to have. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Andri Sadlak is a serial entrepreneur and Founding Head of Product & Strategy at Azoma, building AI-first commerce software for the age of agentic shopping. He's been an Amazon seller since 2017, exited his own brand, and co-founded ProductPinion. Today he's part of the team behind Amazon growth and AI visibility strategies for 8 and 9-figure brands like Mars, L'Oréal, and HP. He's one of the sharpest voices on Agentic Commerce, taking the world stage to break down how brands need to show up in the age of AI shopping assistants like Amazon Rufus, Walmart Sparky, and LLM search.Highlight Bullets> Here's a glimpse of what you would learn…. The evolution of e-commerce from traditional search engines to AI-powered answer and action engines.The rise of AI shopping assistants and their impact on consumer purchasing behavior.The integration of AI technologies by major companies like Amazon and OpenAI to enhance shopping experiences.The concept of generative commerce and how AI can autonomously complete purchases for consumers.The rapid adoption of AI tools and their influence on product research and decision-making.The importance of optimizing for AI algorithms in e-commerce, particularly on platforms like Amazon.The role of multi-modal understanding in AI, allowing it to interpret both text and images for better product recommendations.Strategies for sellers to optimize their listings for AI-driven systems, including managing Q&A sections and enhancing product images.The significance of external citations and media presence in building trust and credibility for AI recommendations.The future of e-commerce and the necessity for brands to adapt to AI-driven changes to maintain competitiveness.In this episode of the Ecomm Breakthrough Podcast, host Josh Hadley interviews AI-driven e-commerce expert Andri Sadlak. They explore how AI is revolutionizing online shopping, focusing on Amazon's shift from traditional search to AI-powered answer and action engines like Rufus. Andri shares actionable strategies for brands to optimize product listings for AI, discusses the importance of image and Q&A optimization, and highlights the growing role of external citations. The episode offers practical tips for sellers to thrive in the new era of agent commerce, emphasizing the urgency of adapting to AI-driven changes in e-commerce.Here are the 3 action items that Josh identified from this episode:Optimize for BOTH Amazon algorithms Don't rely on just traditional keyword SEO—start optimizing for both Rufus/Cosmo (AI-driven discovery) and legacy search to stay competitive.Fix your existing listings first (quick wins) Update product images, backend fields, alt text, and listing details—these are fully within your control and can drive immediate impact.Focus on one high-impact priority: Cosmo optimization Ensure your product answers key customer questions clearly (front + backend). Nail the fundamentals first—everything else builds on this.Resources mentioned in this episode:Josh Hadley on LinkedIneComm Breakthrough ConsultingeComm Breakthrough PodcastEmail Josh Hadley: Josh@eCommBreakthrough.comTools and Technologies"Rufus": "00:02:02""ChatGPT": "00:06:01""Gemini": "00:09:33""Perplexity": "00:09:33""ProductPinion": "00:02:02""Cosmo": "00:21:04""Claude": "00:28:05""Amazon Rekognition": "00:36:30""AWS (Amazon Web Services)": "00:36:30""Azoma": "00:54:36"Studies and Reports"Accenture Study on AI Trust": "00:13:13""Bain and Company Research on AI Usage": "00:16:05""Amazon's Cosmo Paper": "00:30:32"Skills and Features"Skills for Claude": "00:28:41""A+ Content": "00:39:55"Websites"Amazon Seller Central": "00:38:14""Affiliates Media": "00:44:19""ecommbreakthrough.com": "00:54:58"Books"Building a StoryBrand": "00:54:11"Key Concepts"Listings 10, 20, and 30": "00:22:34""Optical Character Recognition (OCR)": "00:39:04"Episode SponsorThis episode is brought to you by eComm Breakthrough Consulting where I help seven-figure e-commerce owners grow to eight figures. I started my business in 2015 and grew it to an eight-figure brand in seven years.I made mistakes along the way that made the path to eight figures longer. At times I doubted whether our business could even survive and become a real brand. I wish I would have had a guide to help me grow faster and avoid the stumbling blocks.If you've hit a plateau and want to know the next steps to take your business to the next level, then email me at josh@ecommbreakthrough.com and in your subject line say “strategy audit” for the chance to win a $10,000 comprehensive business strategy audit at no cost!Transcript Area:Andri Sadlak 00:00:00  The shift that we're talking about is search engines are becoming answer engines plus action engines. So it's already answer engines. We're already deep in it. Most of the people at least. And action engines is what a lot of people predict is going to happen next because we're going to save our time. We're going to go for convenience and trust AI. We already do, right? The good news you're watching this. So now you know that you need to pay attention. And I'm going to share with you exactly what I need to do.MC 00:00:29  Welcome to the Econ Breakthrough Podcast. Are you ready to unlock the full potential and growth in your business? You've already crossed seven figures in sales, but the challenge is knowing how to take your business to the next lev...

Most therapists who own group practices think more revenue means taking on more clients themselves. Jason Marx proved that completely wrong. In this episode, I sit down with Jason to share how growing a group therapy practice to consistent 20K months required him to do less clinical work and more CEO work.We talk about why he rebranded mid-growth, what happened when he stopped putting his own name on the practice, and the Five Guys french fry analogy that completely changed how he thinks about client experience (before anyone even books a session). Jason also shares something I rarely hear group practice owners admit out loud—he had no idea what he was doing and he told his first clinician exactly that.When Jason joined Liberated Business in June 2025 he was still finishing his doctorate and figuring things out as he went. Six months later he hit his first 20K month. If you've been telling yourself you will grow your group therapy practice "later" or once the timing is right, Jason's story will challenge that in the best way.More about Jason Marx:Dr. Jason Marx is a Psychologist and Licensed Clinical Social Worker practicing in both California and NYC where he owns Midtown NYC Therapists, a boutique out of network group practice. He is Jungian and psychodynamically oriented in his approach, working to help patients foster an authentic experience of being and discovery. Dr. Marx has experience working in severe mental health, community mental health, the Brooklyn VA Hospital Outpatient Mental Health Clinic, outpatient substance abuse with sex offenders on parole, child and family psychoanalysis, individual and couples psychoanalysis, group psychotherapy, private practice, and group private practices.Topics covered on Growing a Group Therapy Practice:The arbitrary barriers you set for yourself are what's actually slowing down the growth of your group therapy practiceYour group therapy practice should not have your name on it and what changes psychologically when you remove itThe Five Guys french fry strategy and how it applies to your client experience before anyone even picks up the phoneHow Jason went from "I have no idea what I'm doing" to consistent 20K months without exploiting himself through the processGrowing a group therapy practice means shrinking your own caseload not expanding itRebranding in the middle of Jason's journey gave him more freedom, better boundaries, and a group therapy practice he actually enjoys runningResources from this episode:Liberated Business: www.thebadtherapist.coach/liberatedbusinessBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald MillerConnect with Jason Marx:Website: midtownnyctherapists.comInstagram: @midtownnyctherapistsConnect with Felicia:Get my freebie & join the email list: The Magic SheetsInstagram: @the_bad_therapistWebsite: www.thebadtherapist.coachQuote:"It's amazing the psychological shift that occurred when it was no longer my name on the practice. Suddenly the behind the scenes work and the day to day felt easier, even when it's hard." - Dr. Jason Marks

Feeling overwhelmed in your business? You might be trying to fix too much at once. Let's focus small and get big results! Today, we break down the 80/20 rule and how it applies directly to your business. The idea is simple. A small portion of what you do is responsible for the majority of your results. That means 20% of your products likely drive 80% of your sales. 20% of your processes may be causing 80% of your problems. And 20% of what is on your Profit & Loss could be driving most of your profit issues. Instead of spreading yourself thin, you need to narrow your focus. Find the few things that matter most and work on those first. When you do, you can create bigger results with less effort and finally start moving your business forward. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

What if the reason your small business marketing isn't working has nothing to do with your budget, your platform or your posting schedule? This episode is a live recording from Localist Lab, our free monthly marketing event for small business owners in Birmingham. Marketing consultant Laine White of Uptick Marketing joined Carrie Rollwagen on stage at Saturn in Avondale to share a simple three-question framework that reveals where most small business marketing goes wrong — and exactly what to fix first. Laine walks through the three questions every piece of marketing needs to answer: Is it clear what you are selling? Is it clear why they need to buy? And is it clear what they need to do next? She works through real examples, a live Q&A with the audience, and some honest talk about Google ads, AI in marketing and what actually moves the needle for small businesses with limited budgets. If you have ever felt like your marketing is not working but you could not figure out why, this episode gives you a framework you can apply to everything — your website, your ads, your social media — starting today.  

Why should a customer choose you over your competition? If you cannot answer that clearly, you are making it harder than it needs to be to grow your business. In this video, we talk about what it really takes to stand out. Whether it is choosing a niche, delivering exceptional customer service, or solving a specific problem better than anyone else, your goal is to become the obvious choice. We also talk about how your competition is not the enemy. It is actually one of your best teachers. Study what they do well, not just what they do wrong, and use those insights to improve your own business. At the end of the day, standing out is not about being louder. It is about understanding what your customers truly want and becoming the business that delivers it best. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Clarifying Your Message: Putting the Hero First with Holly FisherIn a recent episode of The Thoughtful Entrepreneur Podcast, host Josh Elledge sat down with Holly Fisher, Founder and CEO of Fisher Creative, to discuss the strategic necessity of clear communication in an increasingly noisy digital marketplace. As a certified StoryBrand guide, Holly explains how business owners often fall into the trap of making themselves the hero of the story, inadvertently confusing their audience and losing potential leads. This conversation provides a high-level roadmap for entrepreneurs who want to stop competing on price and start winning on clarity, leveraging proven frameworks to ensure their marketing message actually resonates with the people they are meant to serve.The Guide Strategy: Transforming Marketing Through Hospitality and StoryThe most common marketing mistake is positioning the brand as the hero of the narrative, which forces the customer into a secondary role that they aren't interested in playing. Holly Fisher argues that for a brand to truly stand out, it must assume the role of the "Guide"—the expert who possesses the empathy and authority to help the hero (the customer) overcome their specific challenges. By shifting the focus away from company accolades and toward the customer's internal and external problems, a business can cut through the clutter and communicate its value with immediate impact. This approach isn't just about clever copywriting; it's about creating a strategic narrative that respects the customer's journey and offers a clear, friction-free path to success.Beyond the framework of storytelling, Holly emphasizes the power of "marketing hospitality" as a key differentiator for modern brands. This concept involves anticipating the needs of the customer at every digital touchpoint, ensuring that their experience is as seamless and welcoming as a stay at a luxury hotel. When a website or sales funnel is designed with the user's comfort in mind, it builds a foundation of trust that makes the eventual transaction feel like a natural next step. In a world where attention is the most valuable currency, treating a prospect's time with hospitality is a radical act that builds long-term loyalty and turns casual browsers into vocal brand advocates.Implementing this strategy requires a commitment to radical simplicity, often moving away from industry jargon that confuses rather than clarifies. Holly suggests that business leaders should conduct a "grunt test" on their marketing materials: within five seconds of landing on a page, can a prospect identify exactly what is being offered, how it makes their life better, and how they can buy it? If the answer is no, the brand is likely leaking revenue through confusion. By stripping away unnecessary noise and focusing on the core problem being solved, an organization can scale its impact and ensure that its marketing efforts are driving measurable business results.About Holly FisherHolly Fisher is the Founder and CEO of Fisher Creative and a sought-after marketing consultant specializing in the StoryBrand framework. With a background in journalism and public relations, Holly brings a storyteller's eye to the world of business growth, helping organizations simplify their messaging and increase their revenue. She is a dedicated advocate for clear communication and has helped hundreds of small to mid-sized businesses find their voice in a crowded market.About Fisher CreativeFisher Creative is a marketing agency that helps brands clarify their message so their customers will listen. As certified StoryBrand experts, the team provides comprehensive marketing strategy, copywriting, and website design services designed to make the customer the hero of every brand story. By focusing on solving real problems and building trust through clear messaging, Fisher Creative enables businesses to grow with confidence and intentionality.Links Mentioned in This EpisodeFisher Creative Official Website: https://fisher-creative.com/Holly Fisher on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/hollyannfisher/Key Episode HighlightsThe Hero vs. The Guide: Why your brand should never be the hero of the story and how to position yourself as the trusted expert instead.The Power of Empathy and Authority: Balancing these two traits to prove to your audience that you understand their pain and have the tools to fix it.Marketing Hospitality: How to design a digital experience that treats your prospect's time and attention with the utmost respect.The "Grunt Test" for Websites: A simple diagnostic tool to determine if your messaging is clear enough to convert leads in seconds.Solving the Internal Problem: Why focusing on how a problem makes your customer feel is often more effective than just solving the physical issue.ConclusionThe conversation with Holly Fisher serves as a vital reminder that in the world of marketing, clarity is king. By embracing the role of the guide and prioritizing the customer's needs through clear storytelling and hospitality, business leaders can transform their brands into magnetic forces that attract and retain their ideal audience.More from The Thoughtful Entrepreneur

#927 In a world of infinite content, storytelling is a superpower and the number one way to stand out. As entrepreneurs and creators, sharing stories that move people, build trust, and convert should be a vital component of our success strategy. If you don't believe you can pull blockbusters from your day-to-day life or don't see yourself as a natural storyteller, this episode is for you! Listen in because I'll walk you through the exact five-step method I use to turn everyday events into captivating brand-building narratives. I'll also teach you how to spot potential stories as they're happening to you in real time. All this to help you mine your firsts, your failures, and your emotions for content that connects with your audience and builds superfans! Tune in to today's session to start building your story bank and become irreplaceable! This applies to creators at every level, so don't miss out on next-level results! Show notes and more at SmartPassiveIncome.com/session927.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Send us Fan MailIn today's episode of The Lucy Gernon Show, I'm joined by business coach, certified StoryBrand expert, and Ireland's leading neuromarketer Deirdre Martin to unpack what it really takes to build a standout personal brand that commands authority, trust and influence.This episode isn't just about logo or visuals.It's about how you position yourself, how you walk into a room, how you communicate your value, and ultimately how you build authority, command respect and influence as a female leader or entrepreneur. Tune in to discover:What a true brand is (and why it's far more than a logo or visuals)The concept of disruptive branding and how to stand out How neuromarketing influences decision-making behavioursThe psychology behind building unshakeable authority and influenceHow to craft messaging that connects emotionally and converts effectivelyThe biggest mistakes women make when trying to attract opportunities, build a brand and command respect

If you're the one who always has to “come in and do the close,” that's not leadership leverage, it's a trap. We dig into the real reason it happens: the clarity, language, and strategy that make your solution sell are locked in your head, so your team fills the gap with jargon and guesswork. That confusion shows up in proposals, presentations, and sales calls, and it quietly costs you time, trust, and revenue.We walk through a practical NotebookLM workflow designed for founders, CEOs, and small business leaders who need their team to communicate like they do without constant approvals. The core is a three-part system: a secure vault for your proprietary method, consistent outputs that match your brand voice, and story structure that makes buyers care. We connect the dots to StoryBrand and the hero's journey so your customer stays the hero and you show up as the guide with a clear plan.To make it real, we demo a Route 66 Plumbing example: generate a brand style guide from your website using Palmelli, clean it up with Gemini, paste it into NotebookLM custom instructions, then feed in Google Business Profile reviews to capture the customer's words. You'll hear what changes in the “before vs after” outputs, how to revise weak lines fast, and how this approach helps your business scale without you being the bottleneck. Subscribe, share this with a leader who's stuck doing every close, and leave a review with the one part of your messaging you want to systematize next.Support the show

Remarkable customer experiences don't happen because someone on your team happened to be in a good mood. They happen when a business decides, in advance, how people should feel at every step. Without that kind of intention, even great companies become forgettable. So how do you design moments customers actually remember and share?   In this episode, Donald Miller sits down with Will Guidara, author of Unreasonable Hospitality, to talk about how business owners can turn everyday transactions into memorable moments. Will explains why hospitality is not just for restaurants, how systems can teach your team what "right" looks like, and how his new field guide helps companies build teams, create a culture of excellence, and deliver magic in a deliberate, repeatable way. Listen in to learn how to make customers feel seen and turn that into a competitive advantage.   Learn from Will: Will Guidara / Unreasonable Hospitality https://www.unreasonablehospitality.com/ Unreasonable Hospitality The Field Guide https://uhthefieldguide.com Pre-Meal Newsletter https://www.unreasonablehospitality.com/premeal   If you want help creating messaging that drives sales, attend the next StoryBrand Your Business Live workshop for direct teaching from Don and hands-on guidance from a StoryBrand certified marketing Guide:    https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop   Buy the updated Building a StoryBrand 2.0  https://storybrand.com/building-a-storybrand-book-new/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=basb2.0&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=BASB2.0  

Your sales are up… but your profit is down. What is going on? Too many business owners find themselves working harder, bringing in more revenue, and still making less money. The first step to fixing it is not guessing. It is going straight to your Profit & Loss and comparing it to previous time periods. Most people jump straight to cutting expenses, and yes, that matters. But the real issue for many businesses is sitting in payroll, payroll taxes, and subcontractors. Instead of improving processes and developing their team, they keep adding more people. And now payroll is eating up all the profit. Today, we break down where to look, what trends to watch for, and how to address the real problem so your business can become more efficient and more profitable. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Episode 215: Automate Your Lead Generation with our FREE online course: https://go.digitaltrailblazer.com/auto-leads-course-freeMost online business owners spend hours building a website — perfecting logos, colors, and copy — only to get zero leads or clients from it. Without the right structure and messaging, your website is just an expensive digital brochure that costs you sales every day.In this episode, Sean Garner teaches us how to turn your website into a client-converting machine using a 10-section wireframe built around the StoryBrand framework. He breaks down how to craft a message that makes your customer the hero, the three biggest website mistakes killing conversions, and why your lead magnet's real job is simply earning permission to follow up.About Sean Garner: Sean is a marketing consultant, StoryBrand Certified Guide, and founder of Sean Garner Consulting, where he helps local business owners dominate their industry with clear messaging, high-converting websites, and proven marketing systems.His agency delivers StoryBrand messaging, website design, sales funnels, and local SEO to help small businesses grow with clarity and confidence.Host of the Marketing Domination Show podcast, Sean is also co-owner of WellSpot IV and serves as Marketing Director at WellSpot Functional Medicine. Sean and his wife Courtney live in Owasso, Oklahoma with their three kids and are passionate about building businesses that create freedom and impact.Grab Sean's Website Template: https://www.seangarner.co/trailblazerConnect with Sean: https://www.seangarner.co/ https://www.instagram.com/seangarner/ https://www.youtube.com/seangarner https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanagarner/Want to SCALE your online business bigger and faster without the endless hustle of networking, referrals, and pumping out content that nobody sees?Grab our Ultimate Ad Script for Coaches, Agencies, and Course Creators.Learn the exact 5-step script we teach our clients that allows them to generate targeted, high-quality leads at ultra-low cost, so you can land paying customers and clients without breaking the bank on ad spend.Grab the Ultimate Ad Script right HERE - https://join.digitaltrailblazer.com/ultimate-ad-script✅ Connect With Us:Website - https://DigitalTrailblazer.comFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/digitaltrailblazerTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@digitaltrailblazerX (Twitter): https://x.com/DgtlTrailblazerInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/DigitalTrailblazer

A lot of brands are saying the wrong thing first. They lead with their mission, their story, and their personality, thinking that will make people care. But customers aren't looking for a brand to admire. They're looking for a guide who understands their problem and can help them solve it. When your message starts in the wrong place, your customer tunes out before you ever get a chance to help. How do you know if your brand is leading with the wrong story?   In this episode, host Donald Miller breaks down the difference between primary and secondary messaging and explains why that shift changes everything. He shows how to talk about your customer's problem, communicate why you care, prove you can help, and make the next step clear. Don also shares simple website tests to help customers quickly understand what you offer and why it matters. Tune in to create messaging that drives more sales.   Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework

So you want to spend $500 in your business, but when will you make your money back?  Maybe it is advertising, people, a course, or even a lunch. Everything you spend comes at a cost. Don't make this mistake so many folks make in thinking the first $500 will pay you back. It doesn't work like that.  -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Private practice marketing doesn't have to cost a fortune to work. If I were launching my practice from scratch today with one goal, scaling to multiple six figures as fast as possible, here's exactly what I'd do.In today's episode, I'm walking you through the four-part marketing strategy I'd use right now to fill my caseload with premium fee clients. We're talking about where I'd invest, where I wouldn't waste a dime, and the one thing most therapists are completely overlooking that gives you a huge advantage in Google and AI search.I also share what I noticed when I recently searched for a therapist myself - and honestly, we need to do better. Potential clients are landing on your website every day and leaving because the most basic information is buried or missing altogether.And there's a fourth strategy I almost didn't include but it may be the thing that makes the biggest difference when someone visits your site and isn't ready to book just yet.Topics covered on Private Practice Marketing:Most therapist websites are losing premium fee clients before those clients even finish reading the homepageThe one offline move that gives your private practice marketing a massive edge on Google and in AI searches that most fully virtual therapists can't touchNetworking vs on-page SEO, which one actually fills your caseload faster and which one is quietly draining your energy for nothingTwo or three referral partners could change everything about the way your private practice growsThe fourth private practice marketing strategy I almost didn't mention, and why it might be the one that does the most work for youConnect with Felicia:Get my freebie & join the email list: The Magic SheetsInstagram: @the_bad_therapistWebsite: www.thebadtherapist.coachResources from this episode:Liberated Business: www.thebadtherapist.coach/liberatedbusinessBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald MillerSquarespace: https://www.squarespace.com/Fiverr: https://www.fiverr.com/Google Business Profile: https://business.google.com/en-all/business-profile/Place Digital: https://www.therapieseo.com/Hold Space CreativeRelated episodes:SEO Blogging for Therapists: How Long It Really Takes to Get More Traffic and Inquiries [Ep 153]Marketing for Therapists: How to Connect with Clients by Addressing Their Problems [Ep 58]Quote:"You really only need maybe two or three really solid referral partners to ensure that you're getting a steady stream of clients." - Felicia

Most businesses are losing sales in the first few seconds, not because the offer is weak or the product is bad, but because the message feels like work. When people have to stop and decode your language, they don't lean in. They leave. And if confusion is costing you customers before the conversation even starts, how do you fix it fast?   In this week's episode, Donald Miller explains why confusion is the real reason businesses stall and how zero cognitive load messaging helps customers buy. He breaks down the "curse of knowledge," why people say "I'll think about it," and the 3 questions your messaging must answer in seconds. This episode gives you a simple framework to clarify your message so customers engage, trust you, and take action.         Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework    

Your Profit & Loss statement is more than just a report. It is a roadmap to better decisions and higher profits. Today, we walk through how to review the last 3 months of your P&L and use it to spot trends that matter. You will learn how to compare your most recent month to prior months, look at year to date performance, and compare it to last year to see what is really changing in your business. We also talk about how to find hidden profits, identify profit leaks, review payroll, and uncover broken processes that are costing you money. Your numbers will show you exactly where the problems and opportunities are if you take the time to look. If you want a more profitable business, start by understanding the trends in your numbers. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

Dr. Kevin Christie explains how chiropractors can position themselves as the go-to disc injury expert in their community using an “audience builder” framework. He outlines an XY-axis positioning concept (expert vs. non-expert; generalist vs. specific) and emphasizes that clinical skill is essential but visibility and perception in the community determine whether patients see you as an expert. Dr. Christie recommends defining ideal patient psychographics before demographics, then selecting target groups prone to disc injuries and identifying offline and online congregation points to reach them. He also applies Donald Miller's StoryBrand messaging model to disc-injured golfers, clarifying external, internal, and philosophical conflicts to craft compelling content and outreach. Dr. Christie stresses that strong marketing must be matched by strong outcomes.

Leadership does not live in books, job titles, or good intentions. It's a daily practice. What does your daily leadership practice look like? Caryn O'Sullivan, CEO and founder of Drapery Street, joins me to share how she practices leadership, and what that means for you, your team, and your business. Caryn walks us through how she went from doing it all herself to empowering others with frameworks like Dare to Lead, EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System), StoryBrand, and Working Genius. You'll hear how she's created a "leadership stack" at Drapery Street based on the frameworks used to operate the business. This conversation is about unlocking the daily habits and systems that make all the difference when leading your company during times of change and challenge. Your team needs your courage, your self-awareness, and your willingness to "rumble" with tough conversations. Caryn's journey shows how building systems and practicing vulnerability transform your business and your culture. By the end of this episode, you'll know how to move leadership from something you read about in books to something you live every day. You'll hear how self-awareness sets your business up for resilience, and how practicing healthy communication gives your team the confidence to support each other and your clients alike. This episode is about creating reliable, repeatable leadership habits to build a company where everyone thrives.   Episode Highlights (00:00) What "leadership in practice" looks like—and why systems matter (02:23) Are leaders born or can leadership be learned? 03:00) The power of vulnerability and courageous conversations in business (07:00) How self-awareness builds trust and guides company culture (08:00) Building a "leadership" stack (11:43) How changing mindsets transforms your team, your business, and yourself (17:40) Creating a company where everyone works in their genius (22:10) Why self-awareness is now a top hiring priority (23:58) Defining your "why"—and what true success and fulfillment looks like (26:48) Compensating talent, recognizing blind spots, and growing leaders (28:57) What keeps leaders going on tough days—finding joy in learning (30:46) How to balance strengths, feedback, and leadership succession (34:24) Caryn's leadership advice for CEOs   Connect with Caryn O'Sullivan https://www.draperystreet.com/ Caryn O'Sullivan on LinkedIn cosullivan@draperystreet.com   About Andrea Butcher Andrea Butcher is a visionary business leader, executive coach, and keynote speaker—she empowers leaders to gain clarity through the chaos by being MORE of who they already are. Her experiences—serving as CEO, leading at an executive level, and working in and leading global teams—make her uniquely qualified to support leadership and business success. She hosts the popular leadership podcast, Being [at Work] with a global audience of over 600,000 listeners and is the author of The Power in the Pivot (Red Thread Publishing 2022) and HR Kit for Dummies (Wiley 2023).   Connect with Andrea https://www.abundantempowerment.com/ Connect with Andrea Butcher on LinkedIn  https://www.linkedin.com/in/leaderdevelopmentcoach/   Abundant Empowerment Upcoming Events https://www.abundantempowerment.com/events   Subscribe to the Podcast Subscribe in Apple Podcasts Subscribe in Spotify    

If you want your marketing to convert better, join us for StoryBrand Your Business Live, a workshop in Nashville TN May 7th-8th 2026 where Donald Miller will teach you how to create clear messaging and you'll get direct feedback from StoryBrand Certified Guides so you walk out confident that your message connects. These sell out fast so register now at https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop     Customer loyalty is often won or lost in the small moments. People come back because of how you make them feel. In a world full of rushed and forgettable service, customers remember businesses that treat them with dignity. They want to feel seen, respected, and cared for. The problem is, many leaders say they want to serve customers well, but they never define what that actually looks like for their team. So how do you create an experience people actually remember?   In this episode of the StoryBrand Podcast, Donald Miller breaks down how Chick-fil-A built customer loyalty by making people feel valued. Drawing from his own experience with the company, Don shares 3 practical tactics that communicate respect, from saying "my pleasure" to carrying trays and walking guests to their cars in the rain. This episode will help you create simple, repeatable ways to make customers feel important and keep them coming back.         Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Are you handling your subcontractors the right way when you pay them? This is one area where small mistakes can turn into big problems. Let's break down the difference between a subcontractor and an employee, and why it matters for your business. We also walk through the correct way to pay subcontractors, what information you need to collect, and why getting a W9 is not optional. If you skip these steps, you could end up paying more in taxes or even violating the law. This is not about making things complicated. It is about protecting your business and doing things the right way from the start. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

5 StoryBrand Soundbites to Clarify Your Message and Become the Go-To Authority (with Kris Jones) Christine Blosdale hosts the Expert Authority Coach Podcast and interviews Kris Jones, a brand strategist with 20+ years of experience and co-author of an upcoming book with StoryBrand founder Donald Miller. They discuss how entrepreneurs and coaches can build trust by positioning clients as the hero and themselves as the guide, leading with empathy rather than credentials. Kris explains the importance of simple, repeatable “soundbites” and outlines the PEACE framework—Problem, Empathy, Answer, Change, End result—using examples like Men's Wearhouse and common coaching messaging challenges. They also cover avoiding confusing “I do everything” marketing, picking a clear lane, and using a website as the center of a marketing universe. --------------------- LINKS MENTIONED: Take The Expert Authority Quiz! - http://ExpertAuthorityQuiz.com Christine Blosdale's Website - http://www.ExpertAuthorityCoach.com Kris shares a free 10-minute video/toolkit to craft five StoryBrand soundbites available at https://www.reddoordesigns.com/ --------------------- HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 Expert Authority Quiz 00:44 Guide Not Hero 01:24 Podcast Welcome 02:47 Meet Kris Jones 06:03 Empathy vs Credentials 09:59 Marketing Like Coffee 11:59 Soundbites Matter 12:40 PEACE Framework 17:11 Soundbite Examples 19:47 Kris Own Soundbite 20:50 Soundbites Everywhere 21:31 Crafting Your Intro 23:25 Mic Drop Mantra 24:43 Build Five Soundbites 26:10 Pick A Lane 29:25 Marketing Universe Map 30:57 Web Copy That Scans 33:19 Website And Free Gift 36:42 Final Takeaways

If you want your marketing to convert better, join us for StoryBrand Your Business Live, a workshop in Nashville TN May 7th-8th 2026 where Donald Miller will teach you how to create clear messaging and you'll get direct feedback from StoryBrand Certified Guides so you walk out confident that your message connects. These sell out fast so register now at https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop     Every conversation is shaping your future. The way you show up affects whether people trust you, remember you, recommend you, or just move on. Connection isn't a soft skill on the sidelines of success. It's what opens doors. When people feel rushed, ignored, or talked at, they pull back. But when they feel heard, valued, and understood, they lean in. Trust starts to grow, and that trust can change everything from team culture to client relationships to sales. So how do you become more magnetic without sounding fake, forced, or overly polished?   This week, Donald Miller shares The Magnetic Conversation Method, a simple framework for building trust in everyday conversations. He explains why connection matters as much as competence and breaks down three practical moves. Don shows how rushed energy creates tension, why curiosity builds trust, and how small phrases can make people feel safe and valued. He also shares practical tips to help you ask better questions, make people feel seen, and stay calm in hard conversations. Tune in to learn how to build trust and become someone people want to work with.         Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Let's talk about building a therapist website that converts (one of my favorite topics). Your homepage copy has about three seconds to convince someone to stay. Three seconds. And most therapists are wasting them on "welcome to my website" and a stock photo of stacked rocks.That's why in today's episode I sat down with Monica Kovach, former therapist turned website designer for private practice therapists, to break down exactly what belongs on your therapist homepage and what needs to go immediately. Monica shares the simple what, who, and where framework for your above the fold section that most therapists are overcomplicating. We get into the copy mistakes that make every therapy website look the same, why your stock photography might be working against you, and how good therapist conditioning is showing up in your website design in ways you probably haven't noticed.If your website isn't converting the way you want it to, there's one section you need to look at before anything else and it's probably not the one you think.More about Monica Kovach:Monica is the Founder and Designer at Hold Space Creative; a Squarespace website design agency. She's a former art therapist and coach, and uses her 10+ years of experience in marketing and design to help therapists and coaches connect with their best-fit clients online.Topics covered on Therapist Website:Why "welcome to my website" is still showing up on therapist websites in 2026 and why it needs to stopMost therapists flip the relationship between copy and design on their homepage and it costs them clientsWhere location info actually needs to live on therapist websiteThe stock photography trap that makes every therapist website look identicalYour bio section doesn't belong where you think it does on your homepageGood therapist conditioning makes you hide behind credentials instead of showing your personalityThe call to action mistake that overwhelms visitors and stops them from bookingYour website copy should speak to where clients are today, not where you want them to beConnect with Monica Kovach:Website: Hold Space CreativeInstagram: @holdspacecreativeConnect with Felicia:Get my freebie & join the email list: The Magic SheetsInstagram: @the_bad_therapistWebsite: www.thebadtherapist.coachResources from this episode:Liberated Business: www.thebadtherapist.coach/liberatedbusinessBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald MillerRelated episodes:SEO Blogging for Therapists: How Long It Really Takes to Get More Traffic and Inquiries [Ep 153]Quote:"Your copy should speak to where your clients are right now, and your design should speak to where they want to be." – Monica Kovach - Monica Kovach

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Greg Curtis and Tommy Carreras from Climbing the Assimilayas, an organization dedicated to helping churches build systems that move people from first-time guests to engaged disciples. With years of experience working inside and alongside growing churches, Greg and Tommy bring practical insight into one of the most overlooked—and most critical—areas of church health: assimilation. Are people showing up at your church but not sticking? Do you feel like guests are slipping through the cracks despite your best efforts? In this conversation, Greg and Tommy unpack what's changing about how people engage with church today and how leaders can respond. A seismic shift in why people are coming. // One of the biggest changes in churches is a shift in motivation: people are no longer primarily coming to church for community or life improvement—they're coming to find God. Where previous generations often needed to be convinced of the benefits of church, many new guests today are already spiritually curious or even actively seeking Jesus before they arrive. Greg shares stories of individuals with no church background who are reading Scripture, watching content like The Chosen, and showing up ready to take decisive steps like baptism. This means churches must recalibrate their approach—not just creating welcoming environments, but facilitating genuine encounters with God. You're missing more people than you think. // Tommy identifies a foundational issue: most churches are only tracking a fraction of the people actually engaging. Many leaders celebrate the number of new guests they can count, but in reality, they're missing a significant percentage—especially families checking in children or people who never stop at a guest table. Churches often aren't lacking opportunity—they're overlooking it. Recognizing and responding to all entry points into the church is critical if leaders want to move more people toward connection and growth. Stop telling your story—start naming theirs. // A common mistake churches make is focusing on communicating their own story—how the church started, what it believes, and why it exists—rather than connecting with the story of the guest. Guests aren't primarily interested in your church's narrative; they're asking what God might be doing in their life and how your church fits into that. Instead of offering multiple vague next steps, churches should provide clear, guided invitations that help people take one meaningful step forward. When churches shift from “Here's who we are” to “Here's how we can help you,” engagement increases dramatically. The first questions every guest is asking. // Every new person is subconsciously asking, “Is there anyone here like me?” That question shapes their experience from the parking lot to the worship service. But today, a second question is emerging: “Is there someone worth imitating?” Guests are looking for more than information—they're looking for transformation. This has led many churches to create space for prayer, reflection, and personal ministry during or after services. These moments often become powerful connection points where guests experience both God and meaningful relationships with others. People are looking for people—not programs. // Both Greg and Tommy emphasize that guests aren't primarily searching for better programming—they're searching for meaningful relationships. That means churches must prioritize relational connection over information delivery. Simple actions—like learning someone's name, asking thoughtful questions, and creating environments where people feel seen—can have a greater impact than any polished program. Designing clear pathways for connection. // Greg outlines three key journeys every church should consider: from the “screen to the seat” (first-time attendance), from the “seat to the circle” (relational connection through groups, teams, etc.), and from the “circle to the street” (living out faith in everyday life). Each stage requires intentional environments and clear next steps. Without these pathways, guests may attend once or twice but never fully engage. Every response is a sacred opportunity. // Tommy closes with a powerful reminder: every form submission, every piece of contact information, every small step a guest takes is a miracle. People don't casually give their information—they do so because something significant is happening in their life. When churches fail to follow up or steward those moments well, they're not just missing a system—they're missing a person God is drawing. Leaders must treat every interaction as sacred and respond with urgency, care, and intentionality. To learn more about Climbing the Assimilayas, access their free assimilation audit, or explore their Sherpa Tribe coaching community, visit assimilayas.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: SermonDone Hey friends, Sunday is coming… is your Sermon Done?Pastor, you don't need more pressure—you need support. That's why you need to check out SermonDone—the premium AI assistant built exclusivelyfor pastors. SermonDone helps you handle the heavy lifting: deep sermon research, series planning, and even a theologically aligned first draft—in your voice—because it actually trains on up to 15 of your past sermons. But it doesn't stop there. With just a click, you can instantly turn your message into small group guides, discussion questions, and even kids curriculum. It's like adding a research assistant, a writing partner, and a discipleship team—all in one. Try it free for 5 days. Head over to www.SermonDone.com and use promo code Rich20 for 20% off today! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Really looking forward to today’s conversation. We have got repeat guests on the call, which you know what that means. These are people I love dearly and who I know have so much that they can help you with. You’re going want to stay plugged in. In fact, this is one of those areas that I think many of our churches are stumbling on and are not doing a good job. We’re not doing what we should be doing. And that doesn’t just come from like, it’s a hunch. I’ve literally been in dozens of conversations where what these guys have shared literally illuminates our thinking and helps us take steps towards being a more effective church. So you’re going to want to stay tuned stay tuned for the entire conversation. Rich Birch — Super excited to have Greg Curtis and Tommy Carreras with us. They’re with an organization called Climbing the Assimilayas. Greg is the director of First Steps and Content Development Eastside Christian Church, a fantastic church. Been on the podcast a number of of times. They’re a multi-site church with six locations in all the places that make sense, California, Nevada, and Minnesota. Of course, those fit together.Rich Birch — And then Tommy is is the head sherpa at Climbing the Assimilayas. Super excited to have both of you guys on. Welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Greg Curtis — Yeah. It’s awesome to be with you, man. Always.Rich Birch — Always fun to connect. Why don’t actually, before we jump in, Tommy, why don’t you tell us about Climbing the Assimilayas? How do you guys help churches? What do you do to come alongside us and help us get better at what what we do?Tommy Carreras — Yeah, I’d love to. Climbing the Assimilayas was started by Greg back when I was brand new in ministry. I was a groups pastor who had just taken over sort of the rest of the pipeline of getting people into groups because I realized I couldn’t get anybody into groups because I wasn’t in charge of anything that was happening before that.Tommy Carreras — So I met Greg in like 2013, 2014. He had just taken over the role of assimilation at Eastside. He kind of designed the role himself when his lead pastor—I’m telling your story now, Greg. Usually you get to tell it.—But his lead pastor, Gene Appel, said, hey, what what do you want to do in this next season? And Greg kind of designed the role based on what he saw was super necessary in the church and also what he was really well designed for.Tommy Carreras — And he was right. Because it was exactly what I needed at the time. It was just trying to figure out what a replicable and scalable system looked like for making things more personal and more effective at getting people to take real next steps. And it sounded really simple, but it was so unbelievably challenging because I just kept getting it wrong myself. And I had no idea where to actually go for advice on any of this. And he started figuring it out, started universalizing some of the principles that were working for him at Eastside and testing those with other churches.Tommy Carreras — I was at his first ever base camp training at Eastside. And so a long friendship began there. And then I just believed everything he said at that point and customized it, contextualized it for ministry and in also Southern California, but a different part. And, you know, it’s California is like five states total. Rich Birch — Right. Sure.Tommy Carreras — So it was much different than Eastside, but also all the principles held up. And so that’s what he’s been doing ever since. I came alongside him a few years ago to sort of throw gas on the fire. I had transitioned out of my role in ministry and started doing a few things with multiple churches. And this was one of them. And it has been a blast to help build these systems in churches that are super hungry for helping people connect, but can’t quite build the systems or just don’t have the models out there that are able to adapt and flex with the changing culture and the changing needs. Because those needs of guests have changed a lot over 12, 13 years.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s fantastic. And friends that are listening in, both Greg and Tommy are the kind of leaders that I just say, you should just do what they say. Like, just listen to what they’re doing and do it. And you’d be amazed at the results that we’ve seen at churches all across the country. And so you’re in for a treat of a conversation today. Rich Birch — Greg, since we last talked, so I think that was maybe a year ago, maybe 18 months ago, what have you continued to notice that’s maybe different around how people are engaging, connecting? We’re talking about getting first time guests, the kind of people that are arriving, trying to help those people get assimilated, get connected. What what have you noticed maybe something that’s that’s maybe different in the way people are engaging right now that’s different than maybe even a year or two ago?Greg Curtis — Yeah, over a crescendo over the last two years has been remarkable in its shift towards—this is going to sound crazy because we’re talking to churches—they’re wanting God now. And what I what I mean by that is prior, we were having to sell the benefits of following Jesus, most growing churches, which there are, and I think it was a compelling thing to share with the culture.Greg Curtis — And so people were coming to church to find community, to find help with parenting, to find support in marriage or to, you know, a variety of different things. And so the draw and and what was causing people to engage with church was really what can, what help in my life? How can I increase the quality of my life? Maybe even get some pretty powerful pain points addressed.Greg Curtis — This has shifted. I’ll put it in the terms of our um our young adult pastor. His name is Charles. He came to me. He said, Greg, prior to a few two, three years ago, maybe not even that long. He said, young adults were coming, 80% of them to find friends and community, and about 20% to find God. He goes, it’s flipped. It’s flipped. Now it’s 80% God and 20% community.Greg Curtis —  And that has expressed itself in some remarkable ways. I’ll just throw two out. At the end of last year, i was covering somebody, ah a pastor who was gonna baptize somebody after the service. He had to be gone, so I said, yeah, I’ll cover it. So in our context, I’ll meet that person ahead of time and kind of show him where to sit in the service, when to come out, where the baptistry is, et cetera.Greg Curtis — And I met her, she was 28 years old, named Connie. And I said, as we’re walking through the baptistry, so, you know, I asked these typical questions, how how long have you been coming to Eastside, which is my church? And ah she says, oh, I’ve I’ve never been to Eastside.Greg Curtis — And was like, oh, so you’re from our online campus? And she goes, no, I’ve never really heard of Eastside. And I said, well, what’s led you to be baptized today?Rich Birch — Right.Greg Curtis — And this was her story. She goes, I grew up in a very non-religious home and I’ve I’ve never been to church. And I have, I vowed I’d never even date a religious person, but I had some friends three months ago that invited me to watch The Chosen with them.Greg Curtis — I didn’t want to. I got I was mad at myself for getting engaged after the first episode. Kept watching. Decided to buy myself a Bible two months ago. I started reading the Old Testament and New Testament concurrently and decided, I love Jesus and I want to follow him. And I could tell what I needed to do was get baptized. But get this. I’m the game day operations coordinator for the NFL. So I work on Sundays. And I just Googled who would baptize me on a Saturday. And your form came up and I filled it out. So here I am.Rich Birch — Wow. That’s amazing.Greg Curtis — Yeah. And and I’ll tell you what. She didn’t know, Rich, that this baptism was going to be in front of other people until we were in the water and the whole church was looking at her.Rich Birch — Wow. That’s incredible.Greg Curtis — Okay. The questions she had, we’ve we’ve remained in touch. The questions she asks are so precious. I mean…Rich Birch — So good.Greg Curtis — …but I’m telling you, I met with somebody, I’ve had a few of those that are similar. That one’s pretty dramatic, but are very similar. No background at all. They’re coming because they’re having a God moment before they get to us.Rich Birch — Yeah. Greg Curtis — And that’s a big shift because God is doing something literally worldwide and in our culture right now that they’re coming to us to find God and and they’re already they’re already encountering him in some way and they need help with that and want it. And that’s a huge shift.Rich Birch — Yeah, I would agree. I’ve seen that in our context, in our church, so my specific home church that I’m a part of, Connexus. I’ve seen that at our church. We’ve seen it in the churches we work with. There is a um a measurable change in the way, kind of the state that people are at when they arrive. You know, that the way I’ve said, echoed similar to what you’re saying there, Greg, is like, There used to be, you know, you and I are of a certain age. I can remember a time when, you know, people would kind of stumble into church and they, you know, they were there for all different kinds of reasons. And, you know, we had to hold their hand for a long time. Rich Birch — But it seems like now people are arriving and they have ah It’s like a God question on their heart that they’re looking for an answer for. It’s they’re, they’re arriving already asking something significant. And, you know, we’ve got to meet them there. We can’t, we can’t just leave that.Greg Curtis — So get get this. I’ve often, I think I’ve probably said this on your podcast before, but for for our church, Christmas is our Super Bowl. It’s our number one outreach event for the year. Traditionally, we’ve gotten 18% of our guest leads from Christmas for for the year.Rich Birch — Wow. That’s amazing.Greg Curtis — Okay. But yeah, but we tried something in light of this. Because we’re we’re we’re looking at this and trying to meet God in in this. And we did something we have never done at Christmas services. And that’s, we it’s so counterintuitive. We invited people, we just shared the gospel. If you want to be baptized right now, We’ll do it.Rich Birch — Wow. Wow.Greg Curtis — And we have never done that because, and and you’ve heard me say i Christmas guests are different than other guests of the year. They’re not there to find God. They’re there because Aunt Sally invited them to a Christmas service before the dinner and gift exchange. So they’re on their way someplace. They’re not going to do anything. And we just thought, let’s just try it. Rich Birch — RightGreg Curtis — And it probably, we we were we were prepared for, we thought maybe, you know, we’re a church of, I don’t know, 12-, 15,000 today. We thought maybe we’d get 120 people to respond, but we prepared for 200 just in case. We had 399 people… Rich Birch — Wow. Wow. That’s incredible. On Christmas Eve. Greg Curtis — …get baptized by coming to a Christmas service, not knowing that they were going to do that.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s incredible.Greg Curtis — So that just that that just illustrates there’s a seismic spiritual shift going on. And I think meeting guests there is going to be very smart for us in this hour.Rich Birch — Yeah, and I want to, that’s a great place to start. I think sets up, tees up the conversation we will be having today, which is, friends, I think a lot of our churches could be missing some of these folks as they’re as they’re connecting. And I want to really mine from you guys. You guys are the experts on this. You interact with a lot of churches. I want to mine for our our listeners some help for them. So Tommy, from your vantage point, you work with churches across the country where we’re asking questions like this.Rich Birch — How do we get these people plugged in? How can we help these first time guests take steps towards ultimately groups, teams, get plugged into whatever it is that we’re trying to get them plugged in. Where do you see that leaders keep getting stuck when it comes to helping people take their next steps beyond this kind of first weekend? Where do we keep stumbling? What do you see consistently bubbling up in the churches that you’re working with?Tommy Carreras — Yeah. Yeah, there’s a few really specific things. And the first one is, first of all, we always have to move as far left or as far up, however you’d like to think, left to right, top to bottom. We have to move all the way to the left or all the way to the top. And the problem is there aren’t enough people in your funnel in the first place.Tommy Carreras — We’ve talked about this before, but a really, really popular church that I’ve been talking to a lot recently, and working with—by “popular”, I mean it’s growing, it’s a few thousand, so it’s there’s something there, obviously, and really popular online pastor. Not not super duper 2 million followers, but like quarter of a million. That’s a lot. Right. And just a wonderful guy. Right. Tommy Carreras — They announced really proudly recently that they had 1300 new people in the last year and their church of 25 to 2800. And I, looked him and said, guys, guys, that’s not even half of how many new people walked in the door. And they just looked so con confused.Tommy Carreras — They’re like, that’s a great number. I’m like, that’s a that’s a great number. It’s a really bad percentage, though. And it’s just wrong. Doesn’t matter if it’s good, bad, ugly.Rich Birch — Right.Tommy Carreras — It’s just wrong. The idea is most often we’re trying to help people take next steps, but we’re just looking at half or less than half of the actual people that are there. And so if we can’t get the top of the funnel right and recognize who’s there, and some of that is just missing the data that we do have. You can give this one away… If you’re not treating your new families like new guests, you’re ignoring them. You’re not missing them. You’re ignoring them because they’re giving you all the info. They’re giving you all the info besides their social security number, right? We need all their info for having their children. And we’re just missing that opportunity usually because we don’t treat them like, well, they didn’t go to the new guest table. But well, who cares? Bring the new guest table to them, right? Just bring it over there and treat them as such. And so that’s a huge one. That’s 30 to 40% of your new guest leads are actually coming in through kids. And so we have to stop ignoring those people.Tommy Carreras — But also it’s all about that invitation. If we can’t get that invitation right originally, then we’re always going to be looking at less than the actual amount. And then fewer people are going to take next steps because fewer people are being invited to take next steps. And so the top of the funnel is the first problem. We’re just not dealing with all the information. Tommy Carreras — The bigger sort of meta problem that I think has has been really interesting to watch is that most churches end up trying to tell their story instead of name their guest’s story.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good.Tommy Carreras — And so if you want to go like the StoryBrand route, and if you’re a Donald Miller fan, which I think, Rich, you are a Donald Miller fan, like it, how could you not be, right?Rich Birch — Sure, sure.Tommy Carreras — Like, “Blue Like Jazz” and “StoryBrand”, where does this guy stop? But the idea is we try and play the hero so that they’ll choose us. We’re trying to make sure all our theological ducks are in a row. We need to tell them the story about the incredible call that that God had on this this church planter’s life 23 years ago and that incredible first moment. And and they’re just sitting there going, Okay, that’s really cool…Rich Birch — That’s interesting to you.Tommy Carreras — …but it has nothing to do with them. Yeah, that’s super interesting. And that sounds like a great documentary that I would watch the trailer for. But that’s it. And what we’re not trying to do, though, is name their story, how they might be feeling right now, and how we might play a part in their story.Tommy Carreras — So instead of trying to say, here’s the story of our church, do you want to get on board? Those assimilation environments, whether it’s your “one program”, which is our language for, you know, the the program that you invite somebody to to help them take a next step into belonging and purpose. Instead of trying to name our story as an organization and say, here’s where you can fit into it. We’re trying to say, here’s the story we believe that God is writing in your life. And we might be able to play a part of it. It’s way bigger than us as a church, but we would love to play a part in it. And here’s the specific next thing that we would like to try and do for you because God’s writing your story and it’s a really good one. And we think we can plug in right here, right now.Tommy Carreras — And that’s the other thing. It’s a lot of times we’re just trying to go and here’s all the ways you could connect. And Greg’s been saying this since 2013 when I met him. But, you know, if you give if you give somebody A, B, C and D, they’ll choose E, none of the above. We’re just we’re giving them options and really they want guidance. And so if we can say, hey, here’s the thing that we have found is the best step for most people like you right now. Then they can just say yes or no.Tommy Carreras — And yes or no is great because if they say no, we just downsell and say, well, what do you want? What are you looking for? What what can we help you accomplish in your story and in your life right now? Not what environment do you want to be in? Because they don’t know. They don’t know what the deliverable of a group is. They don’t know why they would do it. We just have to say, what what do you want then?Tommy Carreras — And they say, oh I’m kind of looking for this, this, this. And you go, oh well, this is an environment that might be built just for you. And so we’re just trying to come alongside their story. But most often we’re trying to convince them that our story is really compelling. And that’s just falling way too flat.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. So much there. Unpack. Friends, rewind. Listen to that. There’s good stuff packed in there. Greg, sticking with this idea of options versus guidance, you know, when we’re thinking about a new person that walks into our church this weekend, this season, what do you think they’re actually trying to figure out in those first few weeks? What are the kind of questions that are on their minds that we’ve got to try to guide them towards? What are you seeing in the churches you’re working with? How should we be trying to guide those people?Greg Curtis — Multiple thoughts come to mind with that one. I’ve always said, and I do think that it’s still true, that the number one question when any of us are in a new environment is, and we’re not conscious of it really, but we look around and is there anyone here like me? And that’s that’s the inner question everybody is asking whenever they go to someplace that’s foreign or new to them. And that, you know, in a church context, that starts in the parking lot.Greg Curtis — And that sounds unusual. But if you’ve if you’ve driven in in on your motorcycle and every other car is a Mercedes and a Beamer, when you pull up, you know, you start to feel other than. And it’s people just look around, is is there somebody here like me? Greg Curtis — And I do think, like I had mentioned before, they are trying to figure out if this is a place where I can encounter God. So I do think we need to calibrate our services in such a way that they do encounter God. And I think that there’s a shift and I can’t wait to see how it gets ferreted out. But the shift in worship that needs to be happening is not just singing great praise songs and, having compelling announcements and and great teaching that is given to you, but having moments where they they actually feel like they’re encountering God, you know what I mean, in some way. And not that he’s not encountered, you know, through his word and and and and in worship. But um you know, ah creating a little bit of space ah for that, I think, going to actually speak to what they’re trying to figure out, which is, okay can I figure out God here? I have so many questions.Greg Curtis — And when they encounter God, that covers a multitude of sins, so to speak. Like, they may have three burning questions, but when if they actually encounter God, the questions almost go into the backseat because, oh my gosh, I just I sense God here. And when I say this, I’m not being theoretical. I just met with a gal, another 28-year-old, yesterday. And again, no church back when whatsoever.Greg Curtis — Her father was Jewish. She passed away a year ago. And she just feels orphaned and started looking for God and started watching us online for two weeks and then came and got baptized her first week she came because we happen to be doing one of those baptism things that we do maybe five times a year.Greg Curtis — And so we sat down, she had her little Bible that we print. It’s one of these few dads that we make. We call it a Bible, but we just print out text for the Bible because we’re doing an Old Testament survey kind of thing called the Old Testament Junk. But she’s she’s like, I think I should get it. Like she just figured out that’s not actually a Bible. And she what what Bible should I get was her first question.Rich Birch — Right. Love it. Right.Greg Curtis — Her other second question. because I said, you got a real pastor of front of you. Where do where do you which what kind of Bible should I get? The second one was, how do you pray?Rich Birch — Love it.Greg Curtis — This is the kind of stuff that as we were growing up, you said we were men of a certain age, that we used to anticipate and dream that people would ask us these incredible discipleship questions, like the disciples asked Jesus, Lord, how do we pray? And he gives them Lord’s Prayer. And we were prepared for those questions, but we were unprepared for a culture that was pretty disinterested. And so we’ve gone to the other paths I mentioned before. But now they’re asking the questions that we we are very prepared to answer, but I think we’re just got a little unused to it. And we need to put those things right in our pocket again because they’re asking. Greg Curtis — And so those are the kinds of of things that that they’re looking for in their first few weeks. And I think they’ll gauge and they are gauging our church by different things than they were a couple of years ago. You know, yeah, sure we have our kids program needs to be good and safe. You know, and and and we can’t do a sloppy job, you know, as we worship God corporately. But they’re gauging it by is God here? Am I meeting him? How can I connect with him? And that is just a very beautiful thing to see happen. That’s a great shift.Rich Birch — You know, I kind of sticking with that. One of the things I’ve been doting as I’ve been interacting with churches across the country is something that a friend of mine, Jeff Brody, lead pastor at Connexus has said. He talked, he’s talked about how we’re trying to offer what we’ve been calling accessible encounter, that it’s like we are trying to, so he wouldn’t say this next part, I’m saying this, so I don’t want to put words in his mouth.Rich Birch — But, um you know, i come from I come from the attractional church movement. That would be my background. Happy to say that that is my background. I know you’re not supposed to admit that, but that’s where that’s my background. It’s like you’re not supposed to say or that’s who it is.Rich Birch — And you know, what we were trying to do there was trying to connect with people who don’t normally attend church. And that’s still our heart. That’s still what we’re trying to do. But what we’ve realized is people are looking for an encounter with God that is that does go beyond. It transcends like, here’s three great ideas for this week at work or whatever. It’s it’s like, hey, I’m coming with real questions.Rich Birch — And so people are looking for something in the service that does have a transformational experience or an encounter to it. Sticking with you for a second, Greg, do you see that trend? So we’re doing more, I’m seeing more churches doing more kind of prayer stuff at the altar, end of the service experience, light these candles if you’re praying for that, fill out this card and post it on the cross. More of those kinds of experiences than I’ve seen before. What do you think about that, Greg?Greg Curtis — No, I feel that too. But that do you know what that does, is it shifts me into one thing I didn’t say is, I also think they’re looking for a person, a resource that they can talk to also. Tommy Carreras — Yeah.Greg Curtis — And I think that when we have those after church like prayer moments, like what what how that’ll look at our church is, and we’ve we’ve decided for this very reason to increase the frequency of them because we didn’t do them often. Now we’re doing them a little bit more regularly, more cyclically. But we we’ll have a prayer team, and I love being on the prayer team that’s at front afterwards because of the content that we were talking about.Greg Curtis — And lines will form of people, and we just pray for them and and talk to them and look in their eyes and sometimes connect them to resources if you know, that’s appropriate. But we just watch the people just line up for that, you know. And I just think people are looking for also a person or a guide, you know, that they could ask some questions of. Rich Birch — Right.Greg Curtis — And so I had an interesting conversation with a friend of mine who’s, I think he’s 31. And um his name is Kellen. Love this guy. He’s a leader on staff at a church in Georgia. And his thing, and I’m not saying this is the answer, but because I don’t think anybody knows the answer right now, because all of this, there’s not, and it’s really multiple answers, right? It’s just a bunch of things. But I’ll throw this in as an ingredient in the thought soup, you know, that’s percolating right now on all this. He was saying, especially with all the younger people returning to church, he that he sees a shift in the attractional church model maybe that may be happening over the next five years, where instead of the worship service being the attractional event, and then we get them assimilation-wise into small groups and ministry teams, that it it may be the reverse of that.Greg Curtis — Where because they’re looking for God in a person, they end up in somebody’s home at, at a, something that may look like a small group, as we think of them, and conversations over coffee. And they get so enraptured in it that it starts there. And then it ends kind of like my friend, Connie, who, who came the NFL gal, it ends at your church. It doesn’t start there. That’s the shift. It starts to end there. And that may mean in the future, our attractional church model and worship may shift to something that’s unapologetically for those who are following and seeking Jesus, not trying to get them to. And that’s a big shift. So so the the the river flow may be shifting. And I just think that’s an interesting thought. It’s been in my head for a while.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Tommy Carreras — I think it’s so funny that you mentioned that people are looking for a person, because I was hoping to jump in and say, I think that all of this is like they’re looking for people, not experiences. Rich Birch — Right.Tommy Carreras — And so thank you for for going there. The question that came to mind, because I’ve always loved your question to to remind us how simple and basic the initial need of a guest is. Anybody in any new scenario, is anybody here like me? I think the question that they’re asking next, is anyone here worth imitating? Because also imitation, imitation is the way we learn. It’s the way we grow. It’s why Jesus is a, is a person we follow, not a doctrinal set of beliefs that we adhere to. Tommy Carreras — That’s not the point. The point is the person we follow and the people we’re becoming and everybody wants to become someone better. And that’s not actually a legalistic gross, like, Oh, you’re just prideful. No, no, no. We’re designed to be phenomenally wonderful people that look like Jesus. That’s what our, our actual heart’s desire is. Tommy Carreras — And so if God’s leaning into that desire in people, then their first question is going to naturally be, is anybody here worth imitating? And we can’t tell people that we’re worth imitating. We can only show them that we’re worth imitating. And how do we show them? We walk up to people we don’t know and say, Hey, I don’t think I know you yet. And you deserve to be known. I’m Tommy. What’s your name? And just take it from there. Tommy Carreras — That’s somebody that’s worth imitating. That is somebody that’s confident and inviting and welcoming and kind and compassionate and interested and curious. That’s who I want to be. And so I’m going to naturally say, oh, if that’s the first person I met here, what are all these other people like? This could be wonderful.Rich Birch — Right. Greg Curtis — Yeah.Tommy Carreras — And so I think those two questions really build the the exact desire set, or at least the first initial desires of somebody who’s who’s coming to church, especially somebody who’s explicitly coming to get to know God and to be the best version of themselves. And they’re they’re actually saying, and I think God defines what that best version looks like. That’s like the best news ever for churches. But we tend to miss it because we design for information transfer and not relationship building. And that’s just not what they’re looking for.Greg Curtis — Yes.Rich Birch — So sticking with that, Tommy, I’d love to, I’d love you to unpack that a little bit. Think of maybe I’m a church of a thousand. So it’s, you know, this thing’s got some energy behind it. And I want to design this, these kind of initial first steps. I want to design our weekend experience and then whatever I’m asking for people to make, to try to get them towards some relationship and get them towards some people. What are some of those initial things that we should be thinking about to try to help them take those first couple steps? What are some of the, these initial steps. Again, picture a church of maybe a thousand. What’s that look like? So it’s gotta be done at scale.Rich Birch — I love the idea of like, you know, I could note people in the room who I don’t know, but like, we all know you get up over a couple hundred and it’s like, I don’t know. By the time you get to a thousand, you look around your lobby and you’re like, I don’t know any of these people. Like I don’t know who any of these people are.Tommy Carreras — I don't know any of these people. Yeah.Rich Birch — So how do we, how do we build a system for lack of a better word that helps us move people towards that?Tommy Carreras — Yeah, I think that first we have to get clear on our goals as a team and we have to get clear on every environment’s goal and make sure there is an environment for every step of the journey. Nobody’s just going to take a big swing. Right. And also we, I would love to live in a place and and be in a church where this is just like, I don’t have to design any systems because all the people just naturally do it. Tommy Carreras — And I would say that often, like I want to, I want to, I want our church to be a church where we don’t even need a group connection event because everybody gets invited to a group personally. And that wasn’t because I was actually hoping that would be a realistic thing. I was trying to set such a clear picture of my actual goal that we could just move 5% in that direction. We could get 20% of our people invited instead of going through a connection event. That would be awesome. Even 5% is better than zero. Tommy Carreras — And so I tried to set ah a visionary goal just for the sake of the culture building. But we have to build the systems and and be really obvious about it because people are also walking in with baggage and they’re walking in with a clear picture and they’re they’re asking to be proved wrong in most cases. Well, i don’t know about in most cases, but in plenty cases, they’re they’re hoping they’re proved wrong. Tommy Carreras — Well, church people just like each other. Well, church people are going to judge the places that don’t have it together yet. Lightning is going to strike when I walk in the door. I’m not actually going to be useful here. I’m going to be a burden. All of those things, that’s the baggage they’re walking in with, not just because of church hurt, because of life hurt. And that is exactly why we’re here, to meet that and say, that’s actually a lie. That’s actually a lie from the father of lies. And you’re here to meet the good father that has only truth for you. And I’m going to show it to you. Tommy Carreras — But we need the systems and the environments that build it correctly and that that lean toward those and produce those kinds of relationships or relational touch points. We need to set clear goals and we need to be relentless in our invitation into those environments. So just having a new here sign on a booth is not an invitation. It’s information. But when my favorite way to announce, for example, which should be an announcement, every single service, hopefully twice in the service. Hey, if you’re new here or you consider yourself new here, and if if you haven’t done this yet, we’d love you to go have a conversation at this place. We want to put this gift in your hands or this something and, and, and here’s what I would always say. And if you’re thinking that the free mug is a bribe to get to know you, you are exactly right. The mug is great, but what’s better is that we think you’re worth knowing and we want to make sure that you have every opportunity to have a familiar face next time you walk in the door.Tommy Carreras — Not, we want to meet you because it’s part of our organizational goal to identify this many guests so that hopefully you give at some point. That’s not a great message. The great message is you’re worth knowing. We think you deserve a familiar face who calls you by name next time you walk in the door. And hopefully also there’s going to be a next time. And we’d like to ensure that there’s a next time. So yes, it’s a bribe. All we want to do is get to know you. We stop by the place. Tommy Carreras — And that, that really worked because also we’re not being slick. We’re being honest. We’re being vulnerable. We’re being transparent. We’re saying we’re just here to do this and whatever it takes to get you there. That’s great. You can leave the mug. The point is we would love to get to know you because you’re worth knowing. And so we’re trying to make sure those environments exist. And then we also have to follow it up. Tommy Carreras — And that means training people training. empowering volunteers to actually accomplish the goal as opposed to accomplish what they think is the goal, but never really was. And so if they’re like, I got to sell the church. Nope. No, no, no. You got to remember their name and ask three personal questions about them. That’s my, that’s my goal for you. Just do that. Tommy Carreras — And if they come to the next thing, like we’ll, we’ll get them to the next thing. You got to mention the program that we want them to come to. That’s fine. They’re not going to come next week anyway. They’re not ready for that. Just get to know them. Rich Birch — That’s good.Tommy Carreras — And so we’re setting real goals and making them very attainable for those volunteers. And then we’re also doing it ourselves in staff and we’re not hiding in the green room, just a little note. But you know, if you’re on staff and you’re hiding in the green room, you know, would fix that. Just fix it.Rich Birch — Yeah, exactly. Stop doing that. I love that. So super tactically, Greg, because we’re talking, we talked, you brought up the ethical bribe. I like to call it the like, Hey, we’ve got a great coffee mug or a water bottle. And you know, it’s one of those things. I love how you framed that, Tommy. Cause I like, think that’s a, that’s a great way even just to like unpack this exactly what we’re trying to do. I think that’s fantastic.Rich Birch — Greg, you’ve helped us think, you’ve helped me think so clearly around um how are we collecting people’s contact information, which is just the start of the of the relationship. Like we’re I think sometimes we can get that turned upside down. It’s like we’re trying to hit the metric because for some metric reason. No, no, it’s ultimately about trying to start a relationship. What are you learning about the timing, the context of all of that, of that kind of part of the service that we’re asking when we’re giving them? You know, what is the ethical bribe, all of that?Rich Birch — What are you learning these days for this very tippy top part of the transaction we’re talking about, the very first step? Is there anything that you’re learning there that we should be thinking differently about?Greg Curtis — I don’t I don’t know. I’m always cautious about saying what I’m learning as if it’s been learned. Rich Birch — Right. Greg Curtis — I think that we are experimenting with some new things in light of this. And I would say that one of the big shifts is it’s look, how do I say it? In light of everything we’ve said already about them looking for God, right? And not just life help. They, I think looking at their discipleship, there’s an old word, you know, but they’re they’re learning to follow Jesus, right? Their discipleship, becoming a follower of Jesus. We have always looked at that through just a biblical theological doctrinal lens. Like, do they know this? Have they done that kind of thing? Greg Curtis — And I think it’s an interesting thing to look at it through the journeys that they experience at at when they come into a new church from their angle. So I call them, I’ve said this before, I think to your crowd, but I call those three journeys the journey from the street to the seat, which really became from the screen to the seat after COVID.Greg Curtis — Right. Like I mentioned, the gal I met with ah on Sunday, she had already attended our church twice online before she had come. And many churches I have talked to, their average is about four times that they’ve attended your church online. But that journey from, say, the screen to the seat where they’re ah they’re seeing you on their television. But then it’s the parking lot, the greeters, the info counter, kids checked in, ushers, whatever. Right. That journey is is so important. Greg Curtis — And that journey is about but ah belonging. But then you get the journey from, ah that’s really the growing journey, which is what they’re there for. And that’s a journey from the seat to a circle. And that’s because the circle is the environment we know works best for somebody to grow, where they’re just kind of FaceTime with people, you know, that in Tommy’s words, they might want to imitate, right? And learn from.Greg Curtis — But it’s so important to get that information. We’re making a big shift where instead of like we’re actually experimenting and saying this for the last few weeks at our church where we’re not collecting their information at all at the at that stage. What we’re doing is saying just come get a free get come get…in our case, we have like a grill where they could get a free meal. Come get a free coffee drink or meal or whatever on us. And we’re we’re not asking them for anything. We’re just creating engagement.Greg Curtis — But we’re starting to shift because we are baptizing, like in our in our case, over the last 15 months, we’ve baptized over 1800 people. And that’s a big that’s a big shift from targeting what I call cold leads to warm leads. You know, you want to get engagement, start collecting stuff and engaging with people when they’ve been willing to get wet in front of people they don’t know, because they made a decision to follow Jesus. That’s a warm lead.Rich Birch — Right.Greg Curtis — Somebody, you know what I’m saying? And in the, in the spirit of the parable of the talents investing where the, you’re starting to see results, you know, in the fruit and just being strategic about that.Rich Birch — Right.Greg Curtis — That’s where we’re pouring in some of our, of our best stuff. We’re experimenting with that. I’m not telling people to do that yet because we don’t know how that’s going to work for us.Rich Birch — Yes.Greg Curtis — So let me just say that in the… Rich Birch — Yes. That’s good. Yeah.Greg Curtis — But moving them from the seat to the circle through that kind of engagement, you know through whatever one program you have, inviting them into a ministry team, a small group. And then that third journey is the journey, you know once it’s belongings established, growing established, then it’s it’s going, the journey about going.Greg Curtis — That’s the journey from the circle back out to the street. And it’s really just equipping people to to not just know Jesus, but to be more like him and to imitate him ultimately, even through their other people examples. And ad I just think that there’s some great environments that we can talk about later that really equip them to do that. Because we may look at the Bible and see, here’s discipleship steps. But from the guest vantage point, it’s their journey from the screen to the seat, the seat to the circle, and the circle back out to the street. And so what environments are we creating?Greg Curtis — And like you said, how are we engaging with them? When do we get their contact info, right? When do we invest in in the engagement? And for us, it it seems a worthy experiment to shift to, because we are seeing so many baptisms in light of the the huge God interest, is to start it’s like a it’s a it’s a discipleship moment to let the discipleship issues drive when we do what. And look at it through the lens of these journeys that guests experience our church with. Right. So that’s a little bit about, you know, what we’re looking at in there and on the front end.Rich Birch — Love it. Well, I friends who are listening in, I was really hoping that you’ll take steps to get connected with Greg and Tommy. We’ve talked about a bunch of stuff. The problem with these things is, man, we can just keep going. And like, there’s so much in this that I find fascinating and, you know, I’ve always loved when people connect. Rich Birch — I do want to kind of pivot and talk a little bit about how you guys help churches. So first, maybe Tommy, talk to us about, you’ve got this incredible free audit that you’ve made available for folks. Talk to us about the audit. How will it help us? We’ll put a link to in the show notes about it. But I really think 100% of the people that are listening today should take this. This would be a great next step for folks coming out of today. Talk us through this a little bit.Tommy Carreras — Yeah, yeah. One of my favorite things about the audit, because it’s it’s a brand new tool that we just rolled out. Because we had a 63-point checklist before, and it was phenomenal. I worked through every item on that checklist…Rich Birch — Yes.Tommy Carreras — …when Greg initially rolled it out a long time ago. And what we did was we took our own medicine and said, how do we reorganize this instead of around an organizational checklist of do we have the features that we think are valuable? Instead, we said, well, what what milestones are going to help a guest on their journey. And so we, we organize the assimilation audit around the three journeys of the guest, not the environments of the church. Tommy Carreras — Now the audit does say, well, this is an environment that meets them in this thing that they’re looking for on their journey, but, do you have the environment? Is it working? Is the main question usually is, is it actually working? And we give you some actual markers around whether or not it’s working. Because the the reality is you have the programs, you have the ingredients, you have the volunteers, you probably have a great Sunday experience. And yet all the people are still disappearing or at least most of them. And they’re, the problem is they do it quietly. They don’t write in and tell you… Rich Birch — Right. Tommy Carreras — …by the way, I left because I didn’t find somebody that I could imitate quickly enough because what I really had was all this baggage from this… They don’t tell you any of that. You just never knew they were even there. Rich Birch — So true. Tommy Carreras — And so what we’re trying to do is look at the experience and go based on all the churches that we’ve worked with, Greg, for over 12 years and seeing this happen over and over and over and seeing the remarkable consistency in the issues and the challenges. We said, here are the leakage points in the system. And some of them are pretty surprising. Some of them are super obvious. But what this will do is actually help you audit the effectiveness of those experiences, organized by what the guests are hoping they experience. They’re desperately hoping you can provide for them on their journey.Tommy Carreras — And the best part about it, honestly, like it’s a Google doc right now. That is, I’m just giving you that admission because also it’s not a fancy tool that I vibe coded like Rich recently vibe coded one of his really cool assessment tools. I haven’t done that yet. And the the reality is though, it’s a Google doc because also you should write some notes on this thing and you should sit around it as a staff and share it and have real conversations.Tommy Carreras — Cause the, the, the gold of this audit is going to be in the conversation and the arguments: No, I think it’s red. No, it’s yellow. It’s doing okay. But what about this person? What about this person?Rich Birch — That’s good.Tommy Carreras — Will somebody go pull up the numbers? Because the numbers… That’s where the gold is in the audit. And it’s, I mean, it’s a lot. It’s a lot of stuff to dig through in your system because it’s 49 points. It’s 49 stops along the way on those three journeys. But you’re going uncover so much. And then I think that it’ll give you a really clear pathway toward, okay, well, here’s what we should do first. Rich Birch — That’s good.Tommy Carreras — And that might be the most important thing about it.Greg Curtis — I would just say, too, on that point that for your listeners, if you’re at a point where you are either feeling alone in in wanting to see a breakthrough in engagement or you have a team and you guys are just kind of spinning your wheels and you have the same results all the time and wanting to see them increase and they really don’t that much, this thing is do it for a few weeks together in meetings. It will invigorate. And you’ll do it do it with a team, even if if ah ah but ah a team of key volunteers yeah in a smaller context.Greg Curtis — But make a day retreat or something out of it and really go through it. And you will find that you, oh my gosh, you can shake out all of the obstacles, all the pain points and weaknesses. It will be very, very helpful and rejuvenating. And it’s free. So there’s that.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, and we’ll put a link to that in the show notes. I really do think this would be a great next step for everybody who’s listening in. Super helpful. Great. It’s crazy that it’s free to me. You know, don’t don’t trash talk that it’s just a Google Doc. Like, man, a lot of intelligence built into that that, you know, we want people to take.Rich Birch — And then the second thing, Greg, could you tell us about the Sherpa tribe? Because I think there are people, well, I know there are churches that are listening in that, you know, you talked about earlier, there was this, you know, hey, there’s 1300 guests or or, you know, sorry, Tommy was talking about the fact there’s 1300 guests at this church, and they should have had a lot more. That has been my experience with 100% of the churches that I’ve talked to around these issues, we’re missing people. So how does the Sherpa tribe help with that? How does that actually help us find those guests, get them to stay, get them to serve and to start growing? What does that look like?Greg Curtis — Well, alongside of looking at the guest journeys in these three ways that I earlier described, we we find that each church, once they do the audit, has a different weakness. You know what I mean? Some of them are common, right? But they ah they’re at their own place and shoring up and strengthening different aspects of that journey. Greg Curtis — And so what we did is we took our video course, which was one of our mainstays, and we started breaking it up and creating a ton more videos that breaking up around 10 minutes and then creating action points for each one and allowing ah people who become part of our Sherpa tribe—which you can go to assimilayas.com and click on Sherpa Tribe, find out more—to to to go right where they need it and study the things and action points that they need. Go deep in that. And then weekly meet with Tommy or I, with other people just like them from around the country and beyond that in these Zoom sessions where there’s no agenda but you. Rich Birch — Right.Greg Curtis — And you bring your questions and what you’re struggling through in this. And we have the most dynamic and fun conversations that create breakthroughs for teams through those through those Zoom moments. Tommy, would you add anything to that?Tommy Carreras — No, I think the the other the other piece of the puzzle that’s so powerful is we’ve seen the we’ve seen the best results from the folks who haven’t just jumped in to go like, I got to shore up a thing and get some information and and then get out and then you know milk it for all it’s worth and just get in.Tommy Carreras — What they’re really, that the churches who are getting the most out of it are the ones who say, this is the year where we fix this. Greg Curtis — Yeah, yeah.Tommy Carreras — This is the year where we look different at the end of it. This is the year that our staff gets it. There are no more people just sitting around in workflows or process queues 29, 42, 83 days overdue. That is the biggest crisis that we could have now because we all get it. We’re speaking the same language and we’re serving each other and we’re doing all these things to shore up all of these systems because it’s not just one person. And most likely it’s most people’s second or third job on their actual plate. Tommy Carreras — And so we’re trying to skip them up to third base on all of these different kind of sections of their assimilation system. And we’re trying to give them the people and the contextualization that’s going to make it come to life for their entire team. But it’s it’s the churches that go, we’re going to make it this year is going to be the one where things change.Tommy Carreras — And they they dive in and they go, I’m going to commit to this thing because they believe that it’s a keystone. It’s almost like a keystone habit. We fix this. Everything else is going to make more sense in our church. And that’s assimilation is a mindset and ah a sort of almost a belief system, not just a couple different environments in our church or a couple different process cues. And so those are the churches that are really crushing it inside the tribe.Rich Birch — Yeah, that that’s fantastic. And friends, again, we’ll link to that. It’s assimilayas.com where you can you know connect more with Tommy, with Greg, with everything that they’re they’re doing. And you know super hearty endorsement from me. You guys do great work and I think it’s super helpful for many churches. This is one of these areas that if we don’t keep an eye on over time, we’re just missing people. We’re missing people taking steps closer to Jesus.Rich Birch — Tommy, why don’t I give you the last word here? Any kind of last encouragement as we wrap up today’s episode that you’d like to share with listeners who are you know thinking about these issues? Obviously, these people are the better part of an hour in. What would you say to them as we wrap up today’s call?Tommy Carreras — Yeah. I was at a church recently and they I was working on mostly data with them. Okay. And they said, hey do you want to talk to the staff for 20 minutes? And I said, okay, sure. Random. I’m going to try and convince them that data matters. And that they okay, they should love their church management software at the end of this 20 minute talk.Tommy Carreras — And by the end of it, they did actually. They believed me. But the whole idea was I led with there’s a whole bunch that got to it, but the the crux at the end was every form response. Every time somebody gives us their information is a miracle. God has moved heaven and earth since before time began to get them to put their name, email, and phone number on that stupid Planning Center form. And it’s a dang miracle.Tommy Carreras — And if that’s true, then every single person in a queue or a workflow or a form, you know, submission, whatever you call in your church management software, that is a sacred opportunity and a massive burden of leadership on our shoulders.Greg Curtis — Yeah.Tommy Carreras — And every red light overdue, 23 days not started, all of those are massive warning signals in our ministry. All because it’s a miracle that anybody would say yes to anything. And how could we not do everything in our power to lean in meet them there and steward their next step and get them across the gap that they are not going to and may not be able to cross on their own.Tommy Carreras — That’s the opportunity ahead of us. And it’s just sacred. And I hope that we don’t miss it.Rich Birch — That’s great. Well, thank you so much, guys. really appreciate you being on the show. Again, that’s assimilayas.com. We’ll link to all of that, but appreciate you being here today. We’ll have to have you on again in the future because this is such an important area, but appreciate you being here today. Thank you. Tommy Carreras — Thanks, Rich.

If you want your marketing to convert better, join us for StoryBrand Your Business Live, a workshop in Nashville TN May 7th-8th 2026 where Donald Miller will teach you how to create clear messaging and you'll get direct feedback from StoryBrand Certified Guides so you walk out confident that your message connects. These sell out fast so register now at https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop     Most leaders make the same mistake: they use too many words. They explain too much, soften the truth, and leave people confused about what matters most. But confused people don't act. They freeze. The best leaders do something different. They tell the truth, they make the message simple, and they give people words they can repeat. That's how trust is built, and that's how people move.   In this week's episode, host Donald Miller explores how Winston Churchill used clear, repeatable language to rally a nation during one of the darkest moments in history. Don breaks down why simple words work, why truth builds trust, and how strong leaders paint a picture of a future worth fighting for. Listen in to learn how to communicate in a way that gives people courage, clarity, and hope, even in the worst of times.       Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

If you want your marketing to convert better, join us for StoryBrand Your Business Live, a workshop in Nashville TN May 7th-8th 2026 where Donald Miller will teach you how to create clear messaging and you'll get direct feedback from StoryBrand Certified Guides so you walk out confident that your message connects. These sell out fast so register now at https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop     Every business wants raving fans. But most end up with something weaker: people who buy once or twice and then move on. In a competitive market, brands that try to please everyone get ignored. When a company doesn't stand for anything, customers have no reason to care. The brands people truly love give customers something bigger than a product. They create a sense of identity, belonging, and trust. People start to feel like they are part of something. And when that happens, customers stick around, tell their friends, and defend the brand. So what makes people care enough about a brand to proudly stand behind it?     In this episode, Donald Miller explains the psychology behind brands that develop loyal, cult-like followings. He shares examples from brands like Milwaukee Tool and RRL to show how strong brands attract loyal customers by clearly standing for something and pushing back against an enemy. Don also looks at public figures like Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, and Taylor Swift to explain how strong beliefs, clear identity, and shared rituals build devoted communities. Tune in to learn how taking a clear stand can turn your customers into loyal evangelists of your brand.     Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Not every business owner wants to build a big company with employees and layers of management. Some people simply want a profitable business they can run themselves. And that is completely valid. Let's talk about the realities of staying solo in business. There are challenges, including the lack of income security when work slows down. But there are also powerful advantages if you run the business intentionally. We discuss how solo business owners can maximize their profits by focusing on efficiency, pricing correctly, and knowing exactly what financial goal they are working toward. When you understand your numbers and work backward from the income you want to earn, you can build a small business that is both simple and highly profitable. You do not have to build a huge company to win. You just need a plan and a clear focus on profit. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

If you've ever struggled to explain what your business does or felt like your marketing should be converting better, join us for StoryBrand Your Business Live. It's a two-day workshop in Nashville this May 7-8, 2026 where Donald Miller will teach you how to build clear messaging that works. You'll also get direct feedback from StoryBrand Certified Guides so you walk out confident your message connects. Every workshop this year has filled up fast, and this one will too. Register now at http://storybrand.com/live       Chances are, you already know that story is everything when it comes to growing your business. Customers who feel invited into a narrative engage more, understand more, and buy more. The harder question has always been a practical one: where do these stories actually go, and how do you write them without starting from scratch every time?   In this episode, Donald Miller shares the exact 7-part AI prompt he uses with clients to transform flat copy into story-driven messaging, from landing pages to keynotes to product descriptions on Amazon. He walks through how to name the problem, agitate it emotionally, state a clear need, and only then introduce your product as the solution. Use this formula correctly, and you're not just writing better marketing. You're making it nearly impossible for your customer to look away.         Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Are you a leader who has struggled with your career ambition and keeping your heart? Or maybe you have been too scared to share your softer side in a business setting. If you have, then this episode is for you. Our guest today is Dr. J.J. Peterson, who we are fortunate enough to have on for a second time, and he shares with us how his new podcast is designed for leaders just like you.TODAY'S WIN-WIN:In your life, you have the opportunity to play the hero, the victim, the villain, or the guide. By choosing the guide you create a better story for your life.LINKS FROM THE EPISODE:Schedule your free franchise consultation with Big Sky Franchise Team: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/. You can visit our guest's website at: https://www.badasssoftie.com/Attend our Franchise Sales Training Workshop:  https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/franchisesalestraining/Connect with our guests on social:Instagram@drjjpeterson@badasssoftiepodLinkedIn: Dr. J.J. Peterson -https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-j-j-peterson-1b4011a2/ABOUT OUR GUEST:Dr. J.J. Peterson is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestselling author, Vanderbilt professor, and host of the Badass Softie podcast. As former Head of StoryBrand, he has helped businesses like Microsoft, Certified Angus Beef, Tempur Sealy, and other marquee global brands cut through the noise with clear, compelling communication. Known for blending academic research with humor and heart, J.J. makes complex strategies simple to remember—and inspiring enough to act on. He brings warmth, wit, and wisdom that leave audiences equipped and energized. This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. Big Sky Franchise Team is consistently recognized as one of the best franchise consulting firms in the United States, helping business owners franchise their businesses through a proven 3-Step franchise process rooted in ethical principles, hands-on guidance, and customized deliverables. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/. The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial, legal, or professional advice. Always consult with a qualified professional before making any business decisions. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, Big Sky Franchise Team, or our affiliates. Additionally, this podcast may feature sponsors or advertisers, but any mention of products or services does not constitute an endorsement. Please do your own research before making any purchasing or business decisions.

Many small business owners get excited about sales numbers, but sales alone do not determine success. The real measure of a healthy business is profit. In this episode we talk about the difference between the top line and the bottom line. You will learn why focusing only on sales can leave you working harder without actually making more money. A business with strong sales but weak profits will struggle to pay bills, invest in growth, or pay the owner what they deserve. If you want a successful business, you have to pay attention to your numbers and focus on building profitable sales. Because at the end of the day, the bottom line is what truly matters. -----------------------------   DIVE IN DEEPER & LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR NUMBERS

What does it actually take to build a $400,000 independent marketing business without an agency, without a team, and without burning out?   In this episode, Donald Miller breaks down the exact 3-phase, 15-step framework StoryBrand uses to take freelance marketers from side hustle to 6 figures and beyond. You'll learn how to use a pitch deck that shortens the sales cycle, offer high-value products inside fixed timelines, and turn one-time projects into retainers.   Whether you're a StoryBrand Certified Guide, an independent marketer, or a small business owner trying to scale, this episode is your roadmap. Don covers the trust formula that turns cold leads into paying clients, how to structure your offer so clients perceive maximum value, and why delivering great work alone will never grow your business.   Plus, find out why it's actually easier to run a $400K business than a $100K one.   Download the free checklist at storybrand.com/guide         Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Get free marketing videos from Donald Miller every week at: https://WeeklySoundbite.com/     You can have a great product and a smart marketing plan and still lose sales because your message starts in the wrong place. Big companies do it. Small businesses do it. They lead with features, backstory, and big ideas before customers even know why they should care. When that happens, people tune out. It's not that your product isn't good. It's that your message isn't clear fast enough. If customers are bouncing from your website or ignoring your ads, could it be that you're explaining too much before you've earned their attention?   In this episode, host Donald Miller shows why the order of your message matters more than you think. Using real business examples, he explains how one simple shift in wording can unlock growth and how starting in the wrong place can quietly stall it. You'll learn how to grab attention, build trust, and guide customers toward a decision without overwhelming them. If you want marketing that actually works, this episode will show you what to say first and what to say next.     Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!

Get free marketing videos from Donald Miller every week at: https://WeeklySoundbite.com/   Most of us avoid hard conversations. We tell ourselves it's not worth the tension. We don't want to look needy or rock the boat, so we let things slide. At work, at home, with friends. But every time we stay silent, something inside us shrinks. Resentment builds, and the relationships that matter most slowly drift off course. We don't lose influence because we lack talent. We lose it because we lack the courage to say what needs to be said. And that silence costs us opportunities, connection, and even our identity. But what if your next big breakthrough is waiting on the other side of one honest conversation?   In this episode, Don sits down with negotiation expert Kwame Christian to explore how difficult conversations shape our confidence, relationships, and success. Kwame shares how overcoming people-pleasing transformed his life, why respect matters more than being liked, and how negotiation is about connection, not manipulation. You'll learn why many negotiations fail before they start, how to plant seeds instead of dropping bombs, and why great negotiators focus on long-term trust over short-term wins. Listen in for a masterclass in how to protect your identity and create better outcomes, one conversation at a time.   Hire Kwame at: https://kwamechristian.com     Connect with Donald Miller on social media: https://www.instagram.com/donaldmiller/ https://www.facebook.com/donaldmillerwords http://StoryBrand.com   Building a StoryBrand 2.0 is now available! https://buildingastorybrand.com/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=&utm_term=cb&utm_content=SB_Framework   Make your marketing and messaging work with the StoryBrand framework—and you can do that with the updated version of the book, Building a StoryBrand 2.0, now available!