Podcast appearances and mentions of Seth Godin

This week, Pete and Jen noodle on the activity of a subtraction audit...one more thing to add to their plate, that will hopefully free up more space. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is a subtraction audit? How might we help ourselves filter the things we say yes to? What are some tactics protect the free time in our calendar?   More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 2071: Seth Godin challenges the broken state of customer service by arguing that companies are trapped between customers demanding instant perfection and businesses cutting costs wherever possible. He proposes a smarter, asynchronous approach where issues are handled thoroughly over time instead of rushed through frustrating real-time interactions, creating a system that rewards accountability and genuinely delights customers. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://seths.blog/2007/02/starting_over_w/ Quotes to ponder: “The internet has taught us to demand everything immediately (and perfect).” “The rapid proliferation of choice has taught us to demand that everything should be cheap.” “Make it really clear to the caller that there is a problem, that the caller deserves great service and that things will be dealt with.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

'Today is day one of whatever streak you choose to commit to.' Something a little bit different this week, as I celebrate an unusual milestone: eight years of running every single day. But this isn't really about running, it's about streaking (no, not that kind of streaking, do grow up) and why committing to one tiny daily action can be such a powerful way of moving yourself towards the person you want to be. Don't just take my word for it: writing productivity expert Bec Evans and daily blogger Seth Godin also share their thoughts on why consistency matters more than brilliance, why the practice matters more than the output, and why this might be exactly what you need to get your book written. One day every streak will end, and that's a tough thought to comptemplate. But today? Today, you get to choose.

Seth told me, "It doesn't matter how fast you're going if you're headed in the wrong direction." He's right. Here's my attempt to create a hierarchy for this idea:1. Strategy = This is your approach, given all the factors, systems, games, players, and environments. It's about who, how, and why.2. Objectives = To-do items or steps on the path to help you achieve the goal. It's about how you're going to get there.3. Tactics = The actions or individual steps for accomplishing the objectives. It's about what you're going to do.“A goal might be part of strategy, but strategy is not a goal,” Seth explains. “Strategy is a goal along with a sketch that becomes a plan.” Unlike a rigid plan, the strategy must allow for flexibility. It should act more like a compass than a fixed map, providing a directionally correct route to success rather than insisting on a singular path. Support the show

This week, Pete and Jen are celebrating four hundred weeks of podcasting (with no breaks!). To honor the occasion, they answer questions that were sent in by you, the listeners. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How have Pete and Jen sustained their momentum of recording, over four hundred episodes? What episodes are in The Long and The Short Of It's cutting room floor? What episode might Pete and Jen want to revisit, with new information or context? What three leaders from their industry might Pete and Jen want to invite for dinner? Should we spend less time training leaders, so there is more time to train followers? What is a favorite lesson or transformation that Pete and Jen have had, over these years of podcasting? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

We look at this Harvard Business Review Press book about Taylor Swift. For more about the book, see here. There's Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift, reviewed This book is certainly readable. As someone who is aware of who she is, knows a few songs, and has teenagers who may have even gone to see her in concert there are reasons why this book was of potential interest for reviewing. The author also cites a lot of business management and thoughtful marketing thinkers too, Clayton Christiansen and Seth Godin yes we are talking about you here. Similarly words like pivot and pilot are used with business dev enthusiasm. This is all fine and dandy, but, as we read it, it was hard not to wonder if this was an attempt to shoehorn the career of Taylor Swift into a startup ethos vibe. The other question, and challenge in reading this narrative, was that, were we looking at Taylor Swift's career through the prism of a confirmation bias. She was, now is, wildly successful for sure, but does that mean that all of her albums, and her musical steps, and decisions made were actually that strategic or as carefully considered as the subtitle of this book would like us to think? As Bill Gates may have said, success can be a lousy teacher. All the more so when you consider musical careers. Lou Reed was an awful grump and cranky guy, if many accounts are to be believed, the Velvet Underground were both wildly unsuccessful first time around, and yet created some great songs and are considered to be one of the seminal and most important bands to have come out of the sixties. Was this therefore a clever strategic performance, or did they, eventually, stumble onto fame and fortune. Walk on the wild side and Waiting for my Man would hardly be obvious topics towards musical stardom. Coming back to Taylor, the book was informative, interesting, but the business analogies felt a bit clunky at times. Many fans felt that The Tortured Poets Department was a good single, or perhaps double album, lost in a triple. It would have been good to see how the author factored in this mishmash of an album in the slightly breathless prose of her faultless strategic rise to the top? Perhaps the classic result of so many triples, like Sandanista for example, so great songs, mixed in with some slightly to very odd ones too. This book might fall between too stools, not Taylor enough for TS fans, and a bit of a reach for business insights for those coming from a business or marketing background. More about the book here A smart, page-turning exploration of the business and creative decisions that transformed Taylor Swift into an unprecedented modern cultural phenomenon. Singer-songwriter. Trailblazer. Mastermind. The Beatles of her generation. From her genre-busting rise in country music as a teenager to the economic juggernaut that is the Eras Tour, Taylor Swift has blazed a path that is uniquely hers. But how exactly has she managed to scale her success–multiple times–while dominating an industry that cycles through artists and stars like fashion trends? How has she managed to make and remake herself time and again while remaining true to her artistic vision? And how has she managed to master the constant disruption in the music business that has made it so hard for others to adapt and endure? In "There's Nothing Like This," Kevin Evers, a senior editor at "Harvard Business Review," answers these questions in riveting detail. With the same thoughtful analysis usually devoted to iconic founders, game-changing innovators, and pioneering brands, Evers chronicles the business and creative decisions that have defined each phase of Swift's career. Mixing business and art, analysis and narrative, and pulling from research in innovation, creativity, psychology, and strategy, "There's Nothing Like This" presents Swift as the modern and multidimensional superstar that she is–a songwriting savant and a strategic genius. Swift's fans will see their icon from a ...

Eric Ries: Incorruptible Eric Ries is the creator of the Lean Startup method, and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader's Guide, and The Startup Way. Over the last two decades, his ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the author of Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great (Amazon, Bookshop)*. If you build a great organization, the predators will come. With the right principles in place, not only can you protect what you love, but help many people flourish because of it. In this conversation, Eric and I show you exactly where to start. Key Points Most leaders are one acquisition, one IPO, one board meeting away from seeing something they love turn into something they hate. If you build something great, they will come. The “they” are the predators who are willing to kill the golden goose. Financial gravity is the force no one controls but everyone obeys. Appreciating its realities and laws will help you build stronger. Rather than framing profit as good or bad, define profit as how you contribute to human flourishing. Harder is easier. Rather than viewing principles as a burden, the best leaders see principles as opportunities. Design the business model so the organization prospers only via mission attainment. Resources Mentioned Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great by Eric Ries (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641) Crafting the Modern Business Plan, with Seth Godin (episode 704) Notice Disruption and Innovate Through It, with Steve Blank (episode 761) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Hal Mayer, a coach and consultant who works with pastors and business leaders to help them grow healthy teams without burning out. With decades of ministry experience and a background in coaching, Hal brings actionable insights into one of the most common leadership challenges: how to move a team from passive compliance to active engagement. Are you carrying too much of the leadership load yourself? Feeling like you're the only one coming up with ideas or pushing things forward? In this conversation, Hal shares a simple but effective framework to help leaders shift from telling to asking—and unlock the potential of their teams. Why teams become disengaged. // One of the most common frustrations leaders express is that their team feels stagnant or unmotivated. Hal suggests this is often not a team problem but a leadership problem. When leaders consistently provide the answers, shut down ideas, or unintentionally reward passivity, team members learn that their input isn't needed. Over time, they stop contributing and simply comply. What appears as laziness is often the result of a system that has trained people not to engage. From answer-giver to question-asker. // Many leaders are promoted because they have strong ideas and can solve problems quickly. However, if they continue operating as the “answer person,” they eventually limit both their own capacity and the development of their team. Hal emphasizes that asking better questions is the key to unlocking engagement. Questions reveal what team members understand, help them think critically, and shift ownership of solutions back to them. When people help create the solution, their investment in execution increases dramatically. The Smart Ask framework. // Hal introduces a practical coaching framework called Smart Ask, designed to guide conversations that lead to action. The process begins broadly by asking, “What issues are you facing?” This allows team members to surface their own challenges and become more self-aware. From there, the leader helps narrow the focus by identifying one clear goal for the conversation—something the person can act on immediately. Next comes a pivotal question: “If you could try anything, what would you do?” This opens up creativity and removes internal barriers that might limit thinking. From there, the conversation moves toward selecting one idea, identifying potential roadblocks, and outlining specific next steps. By the end, the team member leaves with a clear, self-generated action plan. Why buy-in matters more than the idea. // Even a great idea will underperform if the person responsible for executing it isn't fully invested. Conversely, a slightly weaker idea can produce better results if the team member has full ownership and enthusiasm. Engagement drives execution. When leaders consistently choose their own ideas over their team's, they unintentionally lower buy-in and limit results. Coaching toward self-leadership. // Over time, consistently using questions develops leaders who can think and solve problems independently. Hal describes the ultimate goal as “self-coaching” where team members begin asking themselves the same questions and generating solutions without needing constant input. This not only reduces the leader's workload but also builds a stronger, more capable team. Balancing development and delegation. // Hal cautions that delegation is not the first step. Rather, it's the result of development. Leaders must invest time in coaching and guiding their team before handing off responsibility. Skipping this process leads to frustration and failure. However, when leaders take the time to develop people through intentional questions and feedback, they create a foundation for effective delegation and long-term growth. Recognizing true engagement. // Leaders can spot engagement by watching for energy, initiative, and ownership. Engaged team members proactively solve problems, follow through on ideas, and bring solutions rather than just concerns. In contrast, disengagement shows up as slow execution, repeated questions, or a lack of enthusiasm. These are signals that more coaching, and better questions, are needed. Leading with humility and transparency. // For leaders who recognize they've been over-directing, Hal encourages a simple starting point: acknowledge it. Telling your team, “I've been giving too many answers, and I want to change that,” creates trust and opens the door for a new dynamic. This kind of vulnerability invites feedback and helps reset expectations for how the team will function moving forward. To learn more about Hal Mayer and his resources—including Smart Ask and The Coaching Playbook—visit halmayer.com or find his books on Amazon. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they're reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you've been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you are tuned in to today’s episode. Man, we’ve got something super helpful for us. It’s one of these areas that many of us spend lots of time doing, but we maybe haven’t taken a step back and think thought about what do we do in coaching relationships? We all are involved in coaching staff and people on our teams. And today we want to help you with some practical steps to make that even better. Rich Birch — Excited to have Hal Mayer with us. He’s a coach and consultant for both businesses and business leaders and pastors who want to grow but don’t want to burn out. He’s authored a few books, including “Smart Ask”, “The Coaching Playbook”, and excited to have Hal on the episode today. Welcome. So glad you’re here.Hal Mayer — It’s good to be here, Rich. I’ve been a fan on the sidelines for years, and unSeminary was so good because I did the seminary thing, and I did all the stuff, and you’re right. There’s so many things we didn’t talk about there that you help us prepare for, so thank you for what you’re doing.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s super exciting. That’s kind of you to say, but I'm I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation. It’s been a while coming and so excited. We bumped into each other at the Exponential conference this year.Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Shout out to Exponential. I was like, we got to get you on. So excited that you’re here today. Well, why don’t we kind of start. Give us kind of the Hal background. Tell us for folks that don’t know, you know, you give us the kind of the 90 second, this is who Hal is conversation.Hal Mayer — Yeah, I, ah goodness, was born up north, came to faith in Georgia in high school. We moved down there, played basketball in college, and then coached for about five years. Married Sandy, moved off to seminary, finished that up, and I’ve been in Florida since ’84, serving in churches from the size of 200 to 12,000. Rich Birch — Love it. Hal Mayer — So all over the yard, and also do some business coaching in the middle of that.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. Yeah. And I’m, I really, that’s really what I want to tap in today. You spend your days coaching both pastors and businesses leaders, like we talked about that. Rich Birch — When, when someone first sits down with you, I want to kind of use the fact that you have a lot of these conversations today to help our listeners kind of take advantage of you. When someone first sits down with you, what’s like a common version of stuck that you hear, whether it’s a pastor or maybe a business leader, like do you hear common themes with folks.Hal Mayer — Yeah, you know, probably the most common thing I hear is our team’s stuck, our team’s stagnant. And I’ll say, what do you mean by that? And they’ll often say something that relates to this of, I have to come up with all the ideas. It seems like I’m the only one pushing the team to get going. I’m the only one with the ideas. They just seem often lazy, or they’re not doing it. What do I do to engage them?Rich Birch — Right. Love that. Well, man, I wish I hadn’t thought that. I haven’t thought that as a leader over the years. What what, so then take us the next step from there. What what, as you’re kind of coaching someone, I’m assuming as a leader, you know, I, or one of my convictions is our teams are a by-product of our leadership… Hal Mayer — Yeah. Rich Birch — …and we’re leading in a way that’s leading them to act that way. So what what leads our people to be like that?Hal Mayer — Yeah, I think it’s the leader. And that’s the fun thing to do. As a parent, I loved watching my kids do something that was dumb, but they repeated it, and it’s because it was rewarded.Hal Mayer — So I watch team members disengage because they come up with an idea and it gets shot down. Or they ask everybody in the room the idea and it’s only the leader’s idea they go with. And when that happens, they they kind of go, well, I guess we’re just here to hear his ideas. And they start pulling back and not engaging and just being compliant.Rich Birch — Interesting. I remember years ago we had a coach in who said who said to us, this is when I was on the senior leadership team of a fairly large church, fast growing. We were like four or 5,000 people at the time. And he spent a bunch of time with our ah you know with our team, with us.Rich Birch — And ah he looked at us and he said, listen, you guys answer way too many questions. You need to be asking more questions than answering questions.Rich Birch — And that was a pivotal you know changing moment for me as a leader. I was like, oh, Oh my word, that is so true. Talk us through that dynamic of, you know, asking the right questions versus always being the answer man or the answer person.Hal Mayer — You know, we usually get promoted because we did the job well or we have the answers. If we continue in that framework, one day we will run out of the answers, but let’s say we’re in that framework. I’m not developing anybody if it’s only my ideas we’re using. And if we’re only using my ideas, they’ve got ideas, but they’re dying. So what I encourage and push guys to do is exactly what you said, ask questions. Hal Mayer — I mean, questions will do a couple things. One, it will tell me what they understand. I mean, do they really understand the problem? I say, tell me what’s going on. Okay. What do you see here? And all that. It tells me, do they understand the problem? And I may have to probe some more, but I want them solving things that I find out about later. And to do that, I’ve got to lead different. Hal Mayer — For me, we were in a fast growing church in South Florida. And I was the answer man. And what I realized was I’m working harder and harder and I’m not developing people. So I started stepping back and then learning this principle and started asking questions, looking for their engagement. Here’s what I found. When they had the answer or they got to do what they wanted to do, their engagement went way up.Hal Mayer — So for me, not only did it go up, they began to develop. And I’ve had somebody say, well, I don’t have time to develop people. He said, in fact, if I develop them, they’ll just leave me. I say, yeah, yeah you know, it’s worse is if you don’t develop them, they stay, right? Right.Rich Birch — Right. Exactly.Hal Mayer — So I found this to be a tool for development: asking questions.Rich Birch — Okay, that’s cool. I, like talk to me more about engagement. What would be some telltale signs for you of like someone who’s really engaged, fully engaged versus, you know, when your team isn’t as engaged? Because maybe we’re having a hard time even discerning what that looks like.Hal Mayer — Yeah, I I mean, if they’re slow walking the solve that we came up with, if there’s no passion around it, if there’s no energy going in it, and I find myself even answering the same question over and over, I’m realizing more and more, I don’t have engagement. I’ve got compliance. And I really want them engaged and dialing in to what we’re doing. And to get that, I’m going to have to get them on the same page.Rich Birch — Well, and then obviously questions are at at a core of this. And a part of what I love about your resource, “The Smart Ask” or just “Smart Ask” is this framework, it’s it’s, you know, it’s simple… Hal Mayer — Yes. Rich Birch — …but powerful. So why don’t you kind of talk us through the Smart Ask framework? What’s kind of the basic arc that you try to walk someone through?Hal Mayer — Very good.Rich Birch — Coach us through that. Talk us through what that looks like.Hal Mayer — I start very broad and I’ll say, and by the way, I take notes, but at the end I give them the notes and I’ll explain that in a minute. Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer — So I'll I’ll ask permission, can I take some notes? And they’ll say, sure. And I say, I’m going to give them to you. But our first question is, what are the issues you’re facing right now? And let them just elevate them out. Let them say everything they want to say, every problem they’ve got.Hal Mayer — And then I’d say looking at these problems, is what’s one goal that we could have for our time today? Now, what that does is it focuses it on a goal and what they’re going to do, not on me. It can’t be, how could you find me 10 more leaders? That’s not something we can do in that meeting.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — So I want a goal from them, something they can do when they leave the meeting. And so they say, you know what? I want to face this volunteer engagement. In fact, I use the illustration from the book about a preschool lady who said, I need 30 more volunteers to serve in preschool. And I said, well, I can’t get that for you now. So her goal was come up with an idea that I could engage 30 more people. And then I’d go with this.Hal Mayer — Okay. If you could do anything, what would you try? Yeah. And of course, the first, she says, anything? She said, yeah. She said, I’ll pay them $1,000 a piece. I said, okay.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — And I just write it down to go ahead and get that out and get them moving on to the next thing. Rich Birch — Right. Hal Mayer — And they run through things. And I listen, I’ve got to be careful not to go, oh, that’s a really good one. But let them talk about it. And as they get through, if I’ve got something at the end, I mean, as they’re going, I’ll go, anything else you could try? Anything else you could try? And you feel like you’re asking that too much, but what you’re doing is just unpacking all of it. If I’ve got an idea, I can add that in, but I don’t give any passion to it because I don’t want to control.Hal Mayer — Then I’ll say, now look at these. Which one of these ideas would you like to explore further? And they’ll look, and this lady said, I want to explore the one about a lemonade stand in the lobby, which I thought was a dumb idea. I didn’t tell her that, but I thought, aaaah.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — So then I said, okay, what potential roadblocks? Well, I’ve got to talk to leadership. Okay, what else? And they talk about that. And any detours?Hal Mayer — Well, if this happens, we’re walking through solving the problem before it approaches, right? And then the last thing I said, okay, if you’re going to do this, what will it look like? And we list out six or eight things. And I say, okay, let me know like it goes. And hand her the paper. In this case, I said, hey, listen, let me know on Instagram how it went. Rich Birch — Oh, nice.Hal Mayer — So the next week she picked up 40 new workers. And this was a very large church. Rich Birch — Wow.Hal Mayer — She picked up 40 workers with this idea, because it was hers. And to me, it was crazy. It worked. Hal Mayer — But so the the framework is you’re starting broad and you’re narrowing down. And I’m actually getting a set of to-dos and objectives. One, two, three, four, five. Then I hand them that. They’ve got their plan. All going to do is execute it. And they develop it when I’m asking them questions. Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. Hal Mayer — Now, let me tell one of the advantages of that too.Rich Birch — Yeah.Hal Mayer — If I use that enough with them, there’s going to be a time when they come to me and say, and want to talk to me and I’m not available. They’ll say, well all he was going to do is ask questions. Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — And they start going through the questions and they start self-coaching is what they do. And that’s the end game. That’s what I want. And by the way, when I use questions with people, I explain to them what I just did. So they can then take it and use it somewhere else.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. I’d love to start right back at the beginning. Hal Mayer — Sure.Rich Birch — I love this idea of really starting at a wide open. Hey, what challenges are you facing today? I think too often if we’re, I’m thinking in kind of the one-on-one situation, maybe I’m an executive pastor at a church of 1,500. One of my people comes to me and I go to that conversation, and I’ve got five things I want to talk to them about. Hal Mayer — Right. Rich Birch — But I love, you know, starting with what challenges are you facing? What happens if we skip that with people? If we if we don’t start there, I’m sure we get, you know, we end up in all kinds of bad places. Talk us through why you encourage people to start with that question.Hal Mayer — Especially early on when you’re coaching folks, because as they go later, they’ll kind of work through that, no, that’s the framework I’m going to work with. And they’ll come up with their biggest issue. But the reason I do that, I want to show this value to everything they’re facing. And I want them to elevate it, not me tell them what they’re doing, so they become more self-aware.Hal Mayer — Now, if they don’t list one of the things I see as an issue, I may say, and what about this? Is this an issue for you? Oh, yeah, that too. I just don’t want to put a lot of passion on it because then they’ll do what I want. And I want them to do something they’re passionate about because the framework just means I’m going to get more from it.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. That that’s a key lesson. I think particularly for first-time managers or people who haven’t managed a lot of people before, we don’t realize the weight of our voice, right? Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — If we, you know, even by saying like, oh yeah, you’re right. That’s a good idea. Then all of a sudden they’re running with that idea just because you indicated it. That’s an interesting thing. That’s interesting. Rich Birch — Now one of the, I mean, you kind of pulled it apart, but I would love to double click on it there. To me, as I go through your framework, I can imagine, that, hey, “what if you could try anything” is a is a pivotal moment, is kind of a turning point, it is an important question. Why is that and so important? Maybe give us another example. I love the idea when you talked through with the lemonade stand, but talk us through why that’s so important and what does that unlock as we’re interacting with our teams and people?Hal Mayer — That’s a great question because what will happen there is if we don’t ask that question, ah it’s “what if you could try anything”, they may be in the back of their mind have something they go I can’t try that. So they keep trying to think somewhere else. Just get it out on paper.Hal Mayer — It’s like when I feel stressed or something, I just list everything that I’m dealing with and then I can focus on one thing.Hal Mayer — But I allow them to get it all out at that point of trying this and trying that. And usually what will happen is they’ll come up with six or seven ideas. And I say, “and what else” a lot? And it seems like I’m saying a lot, but is when they’re in the zone, they’re answering, well, could try this. Well, could try that. I could try this. And then I find which one they have the most energy around because that’s what they want to do.Rich Birch — Yeah. And obviously you would, you observe that, that energy and you’re like, Hey, it seems like this one, tell me more about that.Hal Mayer — No, no I don’t I don’t do that.Rich Birch — Oh okay. Okay. Talk to me about that.Hal Mayer — What I do is I say, okay, which one of these seven things would you like to try?Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer — Once they identify it, then I say, okay, tell me more about that. What would that look… Why do you want to try? And and then we dive into that.Rich Birch — Okay. One of the things that this strikes me, and this, when I read, again, friends, you should pick up a copy of of this book and there’s a playbook as well I want to talk about. But but I think this could be ah a huge gift for…Just this week, two days ago, I was talking to somebody who, they asked me, they said, hey, what should I be doing in my one-on-ones? I’ve got these staff, what should I be doing with them? And I thought of this framework. Rich Birch — So I think the part of what I love that you’re driving towards is is buy-in. At least my, my my impression as an outsider looking in is that this would really increase the buy-in of my staff. Talk me through, you know, the connection there between buy-in and moving the organization forward and that sort of thing. What, how does that help us think through those issues? Hal Mayer — Yeah. I’m going to bring up the equation I use in the book, the buy-in equation, or the engagement question, whatever that is. I was a math teacher in a former life. So PBI, possible value of an idea, times BI, the buy-in, equals their ROI.Hal Mayer — Now, let’s say, you know, we’ve we’re we’ve got, you’re my boss and I’m doing student ministry and you have an idea because you did student ministry and all that. Your idea out of one 10, it’s going to at least be a nine. I mean, you’re Rich Birch. I mean, you have all the answers.Hal Mayer — Now me doing it, I don’t get any input on it. So I will comply. I will do it, but my buy-in is probably going to be about a three. I’ll do what you ask, but there’s not going be a passion with it. So 3 times your 9 idea is a 27. Hal Mayer — However, let’s say I come up with an idea and it’s not going as good as yours. In fact, it’s a only two thirds as good as yours. It’s a 6, but what’s my buying going to be if it’s my idea? It’s a 10.Rich Birch — A lot higher. Yeah.Hal Mayer — That’s a 60. So there’s a 60 ROI to my buy-in because of my buy-in as opposed to a 27. Now you had the better idea, but buy-in is what gets it done. We’ve seen that over and over again. When people are bought in on something, they often they’ll make a bad idea work. We’ve seen that.Hal Mayer — So for me, that’s what I want. I want full engagement. And when they know that they get to do their ideas, people are much more engaged than they’re running around doing mine. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so true. As a coach, somebody who obviously I coach people full time now and and that is you’ve you’ve named something there that I think is critically important and that oftentimes like I can’t coach people who don’t want to be coached.Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — Right? Like if they’re not bought in, if they don’t think this will help. And, you know, I’ve said in other contexts, I’ve been like, man, the the leaders who who apply the frameworks we’re talking about are seeing great results. And those that are applying, the majority of them are seeing, but a lot of it is just their own buy-in on these issues. Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — There might be a leader that’s listening in today that’s like, okay, this all sounds good, but like, what if my people just have bad ideas? Like, and if, if it’s going to push us in the wrong direction, like it’s one thing to be like, tell me seven ideas. All seven of those are crappy and they’re going to, we’re going to end up somewhere where I don’t want us to end up as it. How do I steer somebody back towards better direction?Hal Mayer — Yeah. One the things before I give people full leash or full run on something is I want to check out their readiness for it. For example, if I want to do brain surgery, I may be excited. I may have done AI search on it and Claude said, do it this way and all that. But I’m not ready for that. It wouldn’t take but a second to find that out. I found that out in high school. I went, so I worked at a gas station where they actually worked on cars too. And I saw a guy fixing the valve. So I went home and took my 1960s Comet and tightened the valves down and ended up having to get a valve job. Hal Mayer — I was excited. I was passionate, but I wasn’t ready. So if you don’t have people who are ready, you cannot hand it off to them. They must be developed some. They’ve got to have some experience. To hire somebody in fresh who’s never done it before and start leading with questions is like leading me with questions in how to operate. I wouldn’t have a clue. I’d be most excited about cutting. No, stop.Hal Mayer — However, questions also help draw focus. And sometimes the reason they don’t have ideas, is we haven’t focused them.Hal Mayer — I learned this with a physical metaphor. Somebody told me it would work. My son, pretty good basketball player. I had him out driveway. I said, son, see how many shots you can make out of 10? And so what that basically did was put a little pressure on, right? And he’s a good, so he shot four out of 10 from the three point line.Hal Mayer — I said, okay, let’s forget about how many you’re making and just shoot and answer my questions. I said, okay, what do you notice? All right, what do you notice about the ball? What do you notice about the ball? He hit 10 in a row. And what I discovered was, you know, you college athletes who will shoot seven out of 10 in a game, but in practice hit 20 in a row. It’s the fog of war or whatever.Hal Mayer — And so with employees, sometimes we haven’t asked enough questions. to get through that. However, we could also have some people who aren’t ready to lead. It’s not fair to expect them to come up with good ideas. They haven’t done anything. So both edges on that. Hal Mayer — And at the end of the day, all of the employees I have are my fault. And if I haven’t developed them, that’s on me, right?Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s good. Talk to me about, so I feel like there are, lead there’s leaders on our teams or there’s people that are listening in today that think they’ve got buy-in, but they really actually don’t. They think their teams are really with them, but they don’t. How, what advice could you give us to try to spot the difference around buy-in that’s not actually there? Like I keep kind of bumping into this wall. How can, how can we spot that?Hal Mayer — You know I look for people who are solving problems. Are they solving them and telling me about it later? Are they coming to me with every problem? Because that means I’m still solving. Buy-in has to do with the passion and the ability to finish something. It doesn’t mean you work until 9 o’clock every night, but it does mean you manage to get the ball across the line.Hal Mayer — So when I watch a lack of energy around an idea or somebody slow walking it. Or maybe somebody asking questions that really aren’t, that are just curmudgeon questions. They’re asking questions just to find every hole that’s wrong. I mean, everything that you can find, well, suppose that doesn’t work. Suppose… That’s not buy-in because for me, my challenge is always, don’t tell me what won’t work or tell me what’s not working. Give me an idea of what we might try. At least then we’re thinking in solutions and not just problems.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s really good. So a big part of scaling any organization, a growing church, a growing business is delegation, is leaders figuring out how to give away things they’re doing. I’ve said this in so many contexts, you know, roll this clock forward. The majority of what you’re doing, we need to figure out how to give to someone else… Hal Mayer — Right. Rich Birch — …how to empower a volunteer or another staff member to pick that up. How does asking better questions change the way we hand off responsibility to other people? How how does it help in that transaction?Hal Mayer — You know, I'm a big fan of Ken Blanchard and the book “Situational Leadership”.Hal Mayer — And I used to train that with a corporation. And one of the things I watch is people like to start people and like to delegate. But when they leave off the coaching in between, it’s not delegation, it’s abdication. And people fail. Hal Mayer — I go, what’s wrong? They said they understood. Well, you stay engaged. I mean, you give them a task. You stay engaged. You’re asking questions. Soon, you’re no longer asking questions to to help them figure out what to do. You’re just asking questions to draw focus. And then you know they’re ready. You can hand it off to them. Hal Mayer — But you’re right. If we’re not finding a way to delegate, but delegation is not the first step nor the second. It’s more like the fourth, right? You watch me. We do it together. I watch you. You’re doing it. However you want to call that. But it takes more engagement. Hal Mayer — People say, well I don’t have time for that. Well, here’s the deal. You can pay me now or you’ll pay me later. But you’re going to pay me. If you’re if you’re not developing people, you’re going to run into a system where you’ve got a bunch of people who don’t know how to think and do. And that’s on you.Rich Birch — True. Yeah, that’s so true. And if we don’t start that process, hey, you watch me, we do together. And if we don’t start that process today, we’ll never get there. And so it takes time. But we’ve got to, you know, that’s, that’s what it we just constantly have to repeat that over and over and over in our areas. I love that. So let’s talk more specifically about the books specifically. So it’s “Smart Ask: Questions that lead your team to win.” Where can we pick up copies of this? If people are looking, because I think this is not a huge book. It’s, you know, if you’re watching on video, it’s just a little thin one, but it’s got, it’s one of these ones. It’s a quick read. You could literally give it to a team member and say, hey, let’s read through this. And then we’re going to talk about it next week. I’d love to get your thoughts on it. But talk to us kind of, when why did you put this together in a book form?Hal Mayer — Well, I was training it and people kept asking me questions. And the only reason I write books is to stop answering all the questions I get asked, right? Is to put it out there. I mean, Seth Godin’s idea of a long tail, right? I want it to last when when I put a book out there.Hal Mayer — So “Smart Ask” is on Amazon, but it was created for the purpose to to help people, after I’ve used it in coaching, to be able to take it then and train their teams. Because it dives in also to the why it works and and such as that. But you’re right, intentionally a short book because I like short books and there you go.Rich Birch — Well, and we all, you know, I can say this as an author, that we’re tempted when we write to be like, well, I’m just going to stuff a bunch of other stuff in there.Rich Birch — But this is, it’s to the point, it’s it’s focused, it’s a great training material, I think, like you say, for you know for our entire team.Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — But then you also put together a playbook. Talk us through how this is different than just the standard book.Hal Mayer — Well, my daughter-in-law, Chrissy, Chrissy Mayer, married to my son. She’s a pastor over to church in Tampa, Grace Family Church. And she said, why don’t you create a handbook for it? And you know what I said? Why don’t you do that?Rich Birch — That sounds like a great idea for you.Hal Mayer — So I said, that sounds like great idea. Once you create the framework, I’ll get it published on. So she did the work and we got together and we put it there. And the reason for it is you can take your coaching conversation, it has all the questions in it. It’s got lines you can write answers. And it gives you a chance to keep up. And I would probably take a picture and send the person they’re the the answers they gave to the questions or whatever like that. It just helps you stay on track. So you’ve got all the questions right there.Rich Birch — And yeah, talk us through the the handing off of the notes back to someone. I think that’s a great move. Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Talk us through why that’s important. Why is that such a critical piece of the puzzle?Hal Mayer — Well people are so used to us building files on them. And you’re going to put that in my file to show that I didn’t know what to do? And so I asked for permission on the front end to take notes. Now, if I’m the boss, I’ll do take notes if I want to. But I I won’t and I won’t if they say no, though. So I’m I’m really giving it to them. And I tell them, I’m going to give you these at the end because I don’t want them taking notes. I want them talking. I want their full engagement with me. And you can’t get that while they’re writing.Rich Birch — That’s good.Hal Mayer — So I said, you just pay attention to me. I’ll take the notes and I’ll give you them at the end. Then you hand them at the end and they’ve got their execution plan.Hal Mayer — So my meeting with them, usually it’s a 30-minute meeting and land with an execution plan that gets handed to them and they go back and do the work. So it pulls them into full engagement. They’re not getting distracted by trying to write down everything or slow play that way. So I’m taking notes again, putting value to them. Hal Mayer — When when they’re the hero, right, and I’m the guide, what I’m doing is is setting them up. And when you take notes on somebody, that means something to them. Rich Birch — Right, right. Hal Mayer — So that’s where I am. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. Now, what about, so one of the tensions I have found in my one-on-ones is wanna make sure that I’m doing all the other stuff: caring for them, you know releasing, you know I guess, finding barriers that that I can pull apart for them and say like, hey, here’s some stuff. Yeah, I’m gonna take some to…Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — And I’ve said to my team in the past, hey, I’m hoping that you don’t walk away from this with a bunch of to-dos. That’s not the the goal of today. I want to help you. And I know you got a lot going on. I don’t want to just dump on you today. And so how do you avoid that in this framework that we don’t end up with? Okay. Every time they meet with Hal, now I’ve just ended up with a plan that I just, gosh, I just gave myself more work to do. How do you, how do you, do you understand that tension?Hal Mayer — Yeah, I don’t do this every meeting with them.Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer —  The meetings on there. And I, you know, I’ll check in. How are you doing? One the things I i really want to pay attention to is the emotional, soul, health of the individual.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Hal Mayer — Because we’ve got people facing burnout today. So I’ll ask them, you know, tell me on a scale of one to 10, what are you feeling? You feel like you want a 1 being I want to go home and go to bed, a 10 being let’s charge hell with water pistols. Right, that gives me a framework. The number doesn’t really matter. I just compare it each time to see if they’re tanking.Hal Mayer — The second thing I’ll ask for is give me a win in your private life, in your home.Rich Birch — That’s good.Hal Mayer — Give me a win in your ah ah ministry side because I want to get them on the positive run. And then I’ll say, anything you need from me. And this may be 15-minute meeting. But what it is is I’m checking in on them. If I have something I need them to do, sure, I can tell them. But I’m checking in on them, and ah that gives them value, right?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, that’s really good. That’s good. I love there’s, friends, as you’re listening and you can tell Hal’s done this a few times. And so, you know, it’s been such a great conversation for you. So if if I’m a church leader listening in today and I feel like, man, I’m doing way too much telling and not enough asking, where would I, and and maybe even my team has told me this.Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Where do I start? How do I start to shift that dynamic with my people? Because because you you you kind of set this up at the beginning of like the teams that are passively disengaged, they’re just waiting for for you to give the list of, okay, go do these 12 things and then come back. How do I shift that dynamic? Where do I start? If i if my analysis is, I think that I’ve actually done that to my team, ah where would we start?Hal Mayer — If I’m convinced of that, I start at this place and I’ve done this before. Guys, you know what? I’ve been running our meetings and coming up with the answers and that’s not fair. So what I want to do is pull back more and get your engagement. So I’m going to be asking questions. I need your engagement in this meeting and your ideas coming. And in fact, if you see me over talking, catch me one-on-one afterwards and give me some feedback because I’m open up the feedback loop then, right?Hal Mayer — But I will do some self-disclosure and just own it because here’s what I do know. If you don’t own it, they won’t recognize the difference later. For example, if I tell somebody, you know what, I’m going to work on asking more questions. Six months they go, wow, you’re asking more questions. If I don’t tell them, they’ll never at they’ll never notice. Sometimes you have to highlight it. Hey, I’m going to stop being the guy trying to be the smartest man in the room, and I’m going to do this.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah.Hal Mayer — People get, vulnerability from a leader is a great thing, right? Own their stuff, but come up with some resources ah to help them, so so you’re asking more questions.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I like that. I like i think that’s a keen insight, that not just like shifting the behavior, but actually pointing to it like, hey, as a person, I’m changing. And the implicit, the great kind of ninja move you’re doing there is like, and therefore I need you to change because, you know, what?Hal Mayer — Right. Right.Rich Birch — I’m changing because I don’t think this is working. Implicit in that is I don’t think our relationship is structured correctly and we need to figure out a different way to do that. You don’t even need to necessarily say that. But but flagging that, hey, I need to change my approach, I think is a really smart move for sure. That’s you know that’s fantastic. Rich Birch — Well, as we’re coming down to land today’s episode, any kind of final words around this idea of asking, leading with questions rather than being the answer person all the time?Hal Mayer — Yeah, this model doesn’t mean you don’t ask offer suggestions. This model doesn’t mean you couldn’t collaborate to build it. It just means you can’t be the person always having the answer.Hal Mayer — And it’s engaging other people. And the thing you will find for me that I have found, when I truly am asking them for their ideas and we execute on their ideas, they’ll come back later and say, you know, I thought that was one of those conferences you went to that said ask questions.Hal Mayer — But you actually did execute on what we talked about. Then they’re more engaged because everybody wants has ideas and wants to be heard and wants to be a part. I think people are motivated. They’re just not motivated when we take over a meeting and and run everything, right? There’s an intrinsic motivation. There’s there’s something they want to do. They’re in ministry, not because they’re just wanting to plow through. They want to see a difference. Well, they’re in the business cycle.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s very true. And I think that’s a good reminder for us. I think sometimes we can get caught in the weeds of running Church World and we forget that like all these people have chosen to be here. They could be doing something else. Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — And how do we bring the best out of them? And how do we, you’ve encouraged me to thinking about long term the long-term win, that really engagement, even if we have to walk through a couple of things that maybe are not the best, because… But if I can get engagement up with my team, man, that’s way better place than like, sure, we have the, it’s the, you know, it’s that perfect plan that’s poorly executed. We want to avoid that, you know, even an imperfect plan. But if it’s got tons of engagement behind it, man, there’s some gold there that we need to think more clearly about. That’s good. Love it. Hal Mayer — Yep.Rich Birch — Well, I want to send people to Amazon to pick up both of these. I think it’d be great. I really do think this could be the kind of book you could build a staff training around it, friends, really easily. You’ve got 15 staff. You could buy 15 copies of this and say, hey, you’re going to read this. And then we’re going to come to our you know team meeting in two months or whatever in a month. And we’re going to work through how do we ask better questions in our our training. That’s how it sticks out to me. Anywhere else we want to send people online to connect with you or to pick up copies of the book?Hal Mayer — You can catch my web website at halmayer.com. They can email me at hal@halmayer.com or I’m on the socials just as Hal Mayer. I, my son is Hal Mayer also, but I beat him to all of them. So I’m Hal Mayer on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. It’s just /halmayer. So I win there.Rich Birch — Nice. Really appreciate you, Hal. You’re a good friend of leaders and I appreciate you being on today. Thanks for being here.Hal Mayer — Thanks, man. It’s been an honor.

In this solo episode of Referrals Done Right, Scott tackles one of the hardest but most important questions people face in business and life. How do you know when it is time to pivot? While persistence and discipline are often praised as the keys to success, Scott explains that there is a major difference between pushing through a meaningful challenge and staying trapped in something that no longer aligns with who you are becoming. Drawing inspiration from Seth Godin's concept of “The Dip,” he explores the tension between resilience and the wisdom required to recognize when a path has become a dead endThroughout the episode, Scott breaks down three major signs that it may be time to make a change. From internal misalignment and changing industries to fear disguised as loyalty or discipline, he challenges listeners to honestly evaluate whether they are still growing or simply holding on because change feels uncomfortable. This episode is a thoughtful and powerful reminder that some of the greatest growth in life comes not from avoiding uncertainty, but from having the courage to step into it intentionally.You Will Learn:• How to recognize the difference between a temporary “dip” and a true dead end• Why success on paper does not always equal fulfillment internally• The importance of adapting when industries and environments evolve• How fear can keep people stuck long after they know change is necessary• Why some of the best opportunities in life begin after letting go of old identities---Scott Grates' Links:Referrals Done Right - https://www.referralsdoneright.orgReferrals Done Right FB Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/296359076662332Scott Grates Website - https://www.scottgrates.comLove Living Local  - https://www.instagram.com/lovelivinglocal315Scott's FB - https://www.facebook.com/scott.grates.1Scott's - https://www.instagram.com/scottgratesTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@scott.grates

Almost four hundred episodes later, Jen and Pete throw it back, in a way, to Episode 1, asking: How do I start? Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: Why can starting something become scary or overwhelming? What are many different tools and frameworks through which to experiment with starting? How are endings and beginnings related? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

En este episodio conversé con Fernando Anzures, uno de los emprendedores y conferencistas más influyentes del mundo hispano. Pasó de ser director general de Coca-Cola en Colombia a reinventarse completamente a los 37 años. Hoy es el fundador de Exma Global, una de las plataformas de marketing, negocio, educación y liderazgo más grandes de Latinoamérica , con presencia internacional. Sus eventos son internacionales y ha tenido speakers como Barack Obama, Tom Brady, Seth Godin y referentes globales del emprendimiento y el desarrollo personal. Algo curioso es que tiene tres Premios Guinness.

Klaas Weima over Seth Godin: waarom de beste marketeer ter wereld eigenlijk een leiderschapsdenker is "Mensen zijn niet op zoek naar een boor, niet naar een gat, niet naar een plank aan de muur. Ze willen aan hun buren laten zien dat ze een goed leven leiden." In deze aflevering van DenkTank spreken Hans Janssen en Christ Coolen met Klaas Weima, marketingexpert en oprichter van CMO Talk.  Aanleiding: Seth Godin is headline spreker tijdens Amsterdam Business Forum 2026. En Klaas is misschien wel de meest fanatieke Seth-fan van Nederland.  In dit gesprek nemen ze zijn gedachtegoed door, van Purple Cow tot Tribes, van permission marketing tot The Dip. Wat maakt Seth zo bijzonder? En wat kun jij er morgen mee? Je hoort onder andere: Waarom Seth zegt dat authenticiteit overrated is, en consistentie het echte werk is Hoe de 10-100-1000-strategie werkt en waarom je altijd klein moet beginnen Waarom kiezen voor wie je er niet bent, krachtiger is dan weten voor wie je er wel bent Een enthousiast, inspirerend en verrassend diep gesprek over marketing, leiderschap en het lef om remarkable te zijn. Luister nu naar DenkTank met Christ Coolen, Hans Janssen en Klaas Weima, over Seth Godin, tribes en de kunst van het onvervangbaar worden. Seth Godin op Amsterdam Business Forum 2026 Over Klaas Weima CMO Talk (podcast en community voor top-CMO's) Klaas Weima op LinkedIn Over Seth Godin Website Seth Godin Seth's dagelijkse blog

  “Subscribe to free weekly news letter HUNGRY FRIDAY FEAST” here”  "Hospitality happens for people, not to them." In this masterclass of an episode, Unreasonable Hospitality author Will Guidara sits down with Dan Pope on the Hungry podcast to unpack the magic behind Eleven Madison Park's meteoric rise to the best restaurant in the world. From leaving a full bottle of cognac with the bill, to systemizing serendipity with Tiffany & Co. engagement flutes, Will explains why true excellence requires a healthy dose of unreasonableness. They dive into the tension between perfection and human connection, the power of a 'Red Team' in creative brainstorming, and how to apply Michelin-star hospitality to any industry—even a UPS store.ON THE MENU:00:00:00 Intro00:01:01 Excellence vs. Hospitality00:03:49 The Fueling Power of Praise & Criticism00:13:20 Redefining Hospitality in Any Industry00:18:18 Creativity: Inviting People Into Your Imagination00:22:11 The UPS Store & Chewy: Systemizing Magic00:35:45 The Cognac Check Drop at Eleven Madison Park00:44:10 Scheduling Creativity & Collaboration00:49:07 Moving to Nashville & Embracing Messiness00:58:27 Reading the Room: One Size Fits One01:06:48 Systemized Magic: The Tiffany Engagement Flutes01:08:32 The Miles Davis Approach to Restaurants01:18:13 The NoMad Chicken & The Red Team01:28:59 Customer Recovery as Your Best Marketing01:32:36 Seth Godin's Girl Scout Cookie Advice01:35:35 Danny Meyer & The Power of Language01:46:34 Do Not Ruin a Story With the Facts01:53:08 The Art of Gathering & Designing Events02:00:11 Savannah Bananas: Changing the Rules02:11:03 The Peak-End Rule & Letting Go of Control02:22:35 Confidence, Ego, & Meeting Your Heroes02:30:49 AI in Hospitality: Copilot, Not Autopilot ============================================== ♨️Still bloody HUNGRY? Course ya are. Each week I spend 15 hours writing my newsletter. It'll take you 5 mins to read. Full of wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink. Subscribe here - https://hungryfeast.beehiiv.com/

If you own a business (or want to soon), one of the most important things you can do is intentionally start building a brand. Today I share tips from Seth Godin's books and my 25 years experience as a business owner to help you build a brand worth talking about. READ MORE HERE

In anticipation of Episode 400 of The Long and The Short Of It, Jen and Pete are asking for questions from you, our listeners, to answer in an Ask Us Anything episode. Do you have a question that you'd like Jen and Pete to ponder, to noodle on, to think out loud about on Episode 400? Head on over to thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/400, and submit your question. To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/). More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

When your G2 category has 97 listings and the average is 75, sounding like everyone else is a death sentence. In this episode of Content Amplified, Mike McGee, Director of Product Marketing at Vantaca, explains why he's building his PMM team to look less like a traditional org chart and more like a digital newsroom, with product marketers assigned to specific customer roles the way reporters are assigned to beats. Mike walks through the inspiration (Nilay Patel's Decoder, the Brian Chesky episode on how Airbnb blended product, PMM, and program management), the internal precedent at Vantaca (support and implementation already reorganized around customer roles instead of platform modules), and the Seth Godin "who's it for, what's it for" lens he uses to pressure-test every messaging decision. He also gets honest about when not to overhaul an org: look at what's predictable and replicable first, find the gaps, and only do a major restructure when there's no tenable way to get from where you are to where you want to go. If you're scaling a PMM team and tired of inheriting your competitors' pitfalls, this one's for you.About MikeMike McGee is the Director of Product Marketing at Vantaca, where he leads the team responsible for messaging and go-to-market in community association management software. Mike got into marketing through customer success, spending several years managing the largest customers at a property management software company and learning how to translate one-on-one relationships into one-to-many storytelling. He joined Vantaca in May of 2025 and is currently scaling the PMM team from two people to five. Mike believes in breaking the rules when the rules just inherit your competitors' pitfalls, and he comes back constantly to the question of whether the team is serving customers to the utmost of its potential.Show Notes- Connect with Mike on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikepmcgee/- Decoder with Nilay Patel (referenced episode: Brian Chesky on Airbnb's product/PMM/program management restructure)Text us what you think about this episode!

This week, Pete coaches Jen as she navigates the urgent and important curveballs and projects that have been thrown into her life recently. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is The Eisenhower Matrix? How might we prioritize the urgent and important? How might we move between periods of sprinting and periods of recovery? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Andrej Persolja built a product with a 4.9-star rating and real clinical proof it worked. He launched in one market and it took off. He then launched to the US and nothing happened. No customers. No conversions.Four years and tens of thousands in ad spend with almost nothing to show for it. He eventually figured out why. Then he ran a structured test. One thing changed. Revenue went up 200%. His cost to acquire a customer dropped by more than half. He left the startup and built a consulting practice around what he learned.He then went on to take another company from $200K to $2M in annual revenue in five months. And in this episode we cover the startup growth playbook, From research to market positioning to client acquisition.This conversation covers:what he learned about why products stop sellinghow he identifies growth levers most teams misswhat customer research actually looks like when it worksand what he did when things were at their worstEnjoy!

367: Activate Good - Leading with Fearlessness and Purpose (Marjorie Maas)Episode SummaryNonprofit leaders carry the weight of the next grant, the next major gift, the next board meeting - and that constant worry doesn't make the work more productive, it just makes it heavier. In Episode #367, Patton talks with Marjorie Maas, CEO of Share Good, based in Omaha, NE, about what it actually looks like to lead with fearlessness when stakes are high and resources are tight. Marjorie leads a national technology and community-building nonprofit that helps cities position generosity in one place - now active in nine markets from Charlotte to Detroit to Omaha and beyond - and she shares the mindset shifts that have shaped both her organization's growth and her own “patchwork quilt” career path. She unpacks the difference between scarcity thinking and an abundance mindset rooted in logical thinking rather than blind faith, why emerging leaders shouldn't talk themselves out of their passion, and why governance fluency is something professionals should be building early — not waiting for an executive seat to learn. Listeners will walk away with a practical framework for leading through uncertainty, language for coaching the next generation of nonprofit professionals, and a clearer sense of how to keep moving forward when fear shows up.About MarjorieMarjorie Maas is the CEO of Share Good, a national technology and community-building nonprofit that connects passion to action in hyperlocal communities by giving nonprofits a shared megaphone to tell donors and volunteers what they need. She leads the growth and expansion of Share Good's national footprint and supports the SHARE Family of community partners across the country. Before joining Share Good in December 2022, Marjorie launched and directed SHARE Omaha, building a platform that promotes more than 700 nonprofits across the Greater Omaha and Council Bluffs metro, and earlier created and implemented the corporate social responsibility strategy for Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Nebraska, redesigning their corporate giving and volunteerism programs. Her 20-plus-year career spans arts marketing, statewide grantmaking, and CSR — a winding path she calls a “patchwork quilt” and credits as the very thing that prepared her for the work she does now.ResourcesConnect with Marjorie on LinkedInLearn more about Share Good at ShareGoodUSA.org — visit the About Us page for community case studies and video testimonialsConcept referenced: Ikigai — the Japanese framework for the overlap of mission, vocation, profession, and passionBook recommendation: The Dip by Seth Godin — a quick, essential read on knowing when to push through a setback and when to walk awayAlso mentioned: Mindset by Carol Dweck (Patton's reference on growth vs. fixed mindset)Follow Your Path to Nonprofit Leadership — and please leave a review!Learn more about the leadership resources at Armstrong McGuire — ArmstrongMcGuire.com

This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the questions: Is thought leadership a teachable skill? And if so, how might we teach it? Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is thought leadership? What attributes does a thought leader possess? How might we turn our thoughts and ideas into implementable and practical actions? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Flower Darby shares about being a joyful online teacher on episode 620 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast. Quotes from the episode Higher education doesn’t do a great job of preparing faculty to teach, generally speaking, that’s not new, but especially online teaching. -Flower Darby If you're not a meme person, don't do that. Something that isn't authentic to your personality is not going to be effective. -Flower Darby Sometimes you don’t need all the latest bells and whistles; you don’t need the latest iPhone. We can be effective with simpler tools. -Flower Darby We can't be joyful if we're always working. -Flower Darby Resources The Joyful Online Teacher: Finding Our Fizz in Asynchronous Classes by Flower Darby Michelle Pacansky-Brock The Spark of Learning: Energizing the College Classroom with the Science of Emotion, by Sarah Rose Cavanagh Dave Ghidiu Denise Maduli-Williams TextExpander Thor: God of Thunder gets a library card A Starting Point for Seth Godin's Blog Feel Good Inc., by Gorillaz Muddiest Point Handout from Purdue Revitalizing the Muddiest Point for Formative Assessment and Student Engagement in a Large Class, by Amy Mackos, Kelly Casler, Joni Tornwall, and Tara O’Brien Poll Everywhere

This week, Jen jumps in to spring cleaning and Pete jumps in to autumn cleaning, and together they noodle on questions that might help us to question, sort, and polish the things in our lives. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What questions might we ask ourselves, to get intentional about the systems in our lives? How might we question, sort, and polish our marketing materials? Where else in our lives might there be a need for spring (or autumn) cleaning? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

This week, Pete brings a Trojan Horse to Jen, and sneaks in ideas around leadership, empathy, curiosity, and humility along the way. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How might we utilize the idea of a Trojan Horse in leadership and coaching? How might we set up our teams to feel they can fully contribute? When might we Trojan Horse something, versus being more straightforward and clear? What are some examples of where Trojan Horses show up in the corporate and theatrical realms? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

In this episode, Carl shares a thought experiment designed to stretch how we think about reality, money, and the assumptions we rarely question. Inspired by ideas from thinkers like Seth Godin, he explores what happens when we stop judging new perspectives and simply consider them—whether it's cultures that see dreams as more real than waking life or worldviews that organize life around something other than work and money. In a world that feels increasingly uncertain, Carl suggests that this openness isn't just interesting—it may be essential. Sometimes the most powerful shift comes not from finding the right answer, but from being willing to see the question differently.Want more from Carl? Get the shortest, most impactful weekly email on the web! Sign up for the Weekly Letter from Certified Financial Planner™ and New York Times columnist Carl Richards here: https://behaviorgap.com/ 

The question of how we might utilize sports team models within corporate or theatrical organizations has Pete and Jen scratching their imaginary beards this week. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How do sports teams differ from corporate and theatrical structures? And how are they similar? How might we utilize feedback, clarity, and communication within our teams? How can we best set people up for success in our businesses? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

The Entrepreneur's Studio How to Build a Remarkable Brand in the Age of AI | Seth GodinMarketing expert Seth Godin shares how entrepreneurs can build trust, stand out, and create remarkable brands in an AI-driven world.Topics Covered: • Why marketing is really about trust and storytelling • How AI is changing the way brands connect with customers • What makes a brand truly remarkable in a crowded marketIn a world where AI can generate content in seconds, what actually makes a brand stand out? In this episode of The Entrepreneur's Studio, Seth Godin breaks down what it really takes to build a remarkable brand—and why trust, not technology, is still the foundation of great marketing.Seth explains that marketing has never been about shouting the loudest. Instead, it's about telling a story that resonates with the right people and consistently delivering on the promises you make. In an increasingly noisy digital landscape, trust is earned through clarity, consistency, and a deep understanding of your audience.The conversation also explores the growing role of AI in marketing. While AI can accelerate content creation and scale communication, Seth emphasizes that it cannot replace authenticity. The businesses that will win are the ones that use AI as a tool—while staying grounded in human connection, empathy, and purpose.For small business owners, Seth highlights the importance of differentiation. Being “remarkable” isn't about appealing to everyone—it's about being meaningful to someone. He also touches on the role of personal branding, explaining how individuals within a company can amplify trust and create deeper relationships with customers.• Why trust and storytelling are the foundation of effective marketing • How to use AI without losing authenticity and human connection • Why differentiation—not scale—is the key to building a remarkable brand“Successful brands are built with your customers talking about you, not you talking about you...Marketing is about creating the conditions for other people to eagerly spread your idea.” — Seth Godinhttps://www.auris.io/Follow The Entrepreneur's Studio so you never miss an episode:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/Youtube: http://www.youtube.comInstagram: http://www.instagram.comThe Entrepreneur's Studio is sponsored by Auris, helping small and mid-sized businesses simplify payroll and HR with powerful tools and real human support. Learn more at https://www.auris.io 

The Entrepreneur's Studio Reflections: Why Authority Doesn't Make You a Leader | Seth Godin In this Reflections episode, Seth Godin challenges the common belief that authority equals leadership—and explains why true leadership is voluntary, not assigned. Topics Covered: • The difference between managing people and leading them • Why leadership is voluntary—not tied to authority or title • How to create “enrollment” instead of compliance If you have authority in your business, does that automatically make you a leader? According to Seth Godin, the answer is no, and believing it does might be holding you back. In this Reflections episode of The Entrepreneur's Studio, Seth breaks down the critical difference between management and leadership. Managers rely on authority to drive consistency and results. Leaders, on the other hand, create movement. They point to a future and invite others to come along without guarantees and without forcing compliance. Seth explains that leadership is not about control. It's about enrollment. Whether with employees or customers, great leaders create the conditions for people to willingly join a journey. Instead of telling people what to do, they tell a story that makes others want to be part of where they're going. For entrepreneurs, this shift is powerful. You don't need permission, a title, or a team reporting to you to lead. Leadership starts in small moments, trying something new, creating something meaningful, and inviting others to participate. Over time, those moments build trust, momentum, and real influence. • Why authority can create compliance but not true leadership • How leaders create voluntary followers through vision and story • Why small, consistent actions are the starting point for leadership “Leadership says, I'm going over there, who wants to come?” — Seth Godin https://www.auris.io/Follow The Entrepreneur's Studio so you never miss an episode:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/Youtube: http://www.youtube.comInstagram: http://www.instagram.comThe Entrepreneur's Studio is sponsored by Auris, helping small and mid-sized businesses simplify payroll and HR with powerful tools and real human support. Learn more at https://www.auris.io 

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Check out the full episode: https://greatness.lnk.to/1027DM Seth Godin doesn't fight self-doubt. He engineers a life where it barely gets a vote. 7,500 blog posts in a row. Not because every one is great. Because Friday is Friday, and the post goes up. The decision was made once, 20 years ago. No internal meetings. No second-guessing. That's the whole system. Lewis gets honest too, admitting it was never failure or success that scared him. It was judgment. The weight of what people thought. That fear quietly ran his life for years. Two sharp minds. One clear truth: stop debating what you've already decided to do. Sign up for the Greatness newsletter: http://www.greatness.com/newsletter Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Dan and Ian break down the real use cases they're seeing inside DC companies right now — not theory, not hype, but the actual workflows founders are using to make and save money. They cover: ● The difference between sidecar AI, AI-first companies, and AI-native businesses ● Real-time dashboards, CRM systems, financial intelligence, and onboarding workflows ● Why founders can suddenly revisit old projects, landing pages, pricing, and customer journeys ● The biggest question every founder needs to answer in 2026: what are we actually going to do with this thing? Tropical MBA is a podcast for entrepreneurs building location-independent businesses. Subscribe for weekly episodes on business, money, and the entrepreneurial lifestyle. How A.I. Helped One Man (and His Brother) Build a $1.8 Billion Company Hang out exclusively with 7+ figure founders in DC BLACK Our sponsor, Bento - Email marketing for bootstrapped founders CHAPTERS (00:00:00) “Every Business Needs an AI Implementation” (00:05:23) Why “Sidecar AI” Is No Longer Enough (00:08:00) What an AI-First Business Actually Looks Like (00:10:49) The Future: AI-Native Companies (00:12:58) Real-Time Dashboards, Reports, and Scoreboards (00:15:36) CRM, Campaigns, and Customer Data (00:18:32) Why Financial Intelligence Matters More Than Ever (00:21:44) Building Landing Pages Without Developers “These are revenue experiments, growth experiments.” (00:24:23) The First Workflows Founders Should Rebuild CONNECT: Dan@tropicalmba.com Ian@tropicalmba.com Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella. PLAYLIST: The $10K Projects You Never Do (AI Just Changed That) How to Build a 6-Figure Digital Business with Claude Code We Got Claude-Pilled

The NYC Market Is Tighter Than the Numbers Show — Craig Roth Explains Why Noah and John sit down with Craig Roth, founder and principal of NextStop NY — a 22-year NYC real estate veteran who closes 150+ deals a year with over $2 billion in career sales. Craig specializes in Midtown East and Upper East Side, and he pulls no punches. Three of his listings went into contract this week before ever going back on the market. He breaks down why Upper East Side co-op prices are still below 2018 highs, why rents running 10% above last year are pushing buyers off the fence, and why right now feels a lot like 2012–13 — just before the market made a big move. Craig also gets into the craft: why he despises virtual staging, the co-op sublet policies and flip taxes that silently kill investment returns, and the one book every new agent should read. Topics in this episode: • Off-market deals and the tight inventory reality • Why the rent-vs-buy math is shifting for Upper East Side buyers • Parents buying for adult children — and why the numbers make sense • NYC resilience: ignoring political noise and trusting the long cycle • The "doctor of real estate" mindset and building-specific knowledge • Co-op sublet policies and flip taxes that destroy returns • Physical vs. virtual staging — Craig's strong take • Common listing agent mistakes: staging, pricing, confidence • CRM from day one — Craig's biggest early career regret • Network like crazy: seeds Craig planted without realizing it • "The Purple Cow" by Seth Godin — must-read for new agents • Why organic relationships beat cold calling every time ✅ NextStop NY: https://www.nextstopny.com ✅ Craig on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/realestatenewyork ✅ Craig on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsnyrealestate =============== ✅ Stay Connected:

This week, Jen gets excited about the idea of risk progression, and she and Pete use the idea of BHAGs to think about steady risk implementation. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is the definition of a BHAG? How might we utilize progressive risk taking in our work and reach outs? What might a hairy risk or goal look like? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Authenticity isn't about doing more; it's about undoing everything that isn't actually you. In this high-impact episode, Lesley Logan sits down with author and keynote speaker Barb Betts to unpack one of the most overused buzzwords in personal growth. From getting pregnant at 17 to building a speaking career rooted in real connection, Barb shares how her hair loss journey helped her stop hiding and start showing up fully. Instead of trying to be more, start shedding the layers of protection that stall your growth. This conversation flips the script on self-doubt, turning it into a green light for the next best version of you. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Authenticity as an undoing process of performance and protection.How your relationship with yourself impacts your ability to connect with others.Reframing comparison with curiosity to overcome social media envy.Overcoming imposter syndrome by embracing self-doubt as a growth signal.The VVR formula using visibility vulnerability and relatability to connect.Episode References/Links:Barb Betts Website - https://www.barbbetts.comBarb Betts LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/barbbettsBarb Betts Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/barbbettsThe Relationship Advantage by Barb Betts - https://therelationshipadvantagebook.comYou're Wrong About Podcast - https://beitpod.com/yourewrongboutGuest Bio:Barb Betts is a sought-after keynote speaker, CEO and relentless advocate for building businesses rooted in relationships. With over 20 years of experience, she blends authenticity and strategy to help professionals create lasting success while staying true to themselves. Known for her high-energy, transformative presentations, Barb has inspired audiences at events like LVMH, Thelios, Fidelity National, Inman Connect, and the NAR Annual Conference. As an entrepreneur and CEO, Barb equips leaders and business owners with the systems and strategies to leverage relationships for growth and success. Through her award-winning podcast, Relationships are Your Superpower®, she shows how trust-based connections lead to more referrals, loyal clients, and sustainable business models.Outside of her work, Barb enjoys life in Southern California with her husband and two children, and can in her spare time, loves to travel, spend time with friends and family, and has never met a steakhouse she doesn't like!  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Barb Betts 0:00  What I know for a fact is when you choose authenticity, when you choose to show up real, relatable and human, I know for a fact you give others permission to do the same and that is the foundation of human connection, and that's how you build real relationships. When I chose to go through my hair loss journey, take my hair off on social media and show everybody my basically bald front of my head. I upleveled my relationships big time in ways I never could have imagined, because it turns out people want authenticity, they want humanity and it gives others permission to do the same with you, and that's how you create a real relationship. Lesley Logan 0:43  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.  Lesley Logan 1:26  All right, Be It babe, we're gonna talk about relationships, not like the romantic kind, but like relationships with our self. You've heard many Be It Pods be about get to know yourself. And so we're gonna talk about that in a deep, wonderful, tangible way. I actually think it's really great for all of us. I got, I have already have five things. I'm like, oh, I want to review that. Oh, I like that. Oh, I highlight that. Oh, that. I'm so glad I already do that, and now I know why I love it so much. So Barb Betts is our guest today. She's an author speaker and epic human you're gonna hear all about her, and I'm gonna let her tell you, because she's the best at it. So here's Barb Betts. Lesley Logan 2:00  All right, Be It babe, this is gonna be fun, because I've known this woman for a few years now and been following her journey. And there's so many ways this conversation could go, because you are one of the most multifaceted humans I do know, but you are an expert at several things, and I wanted to bring you on to just wow our people in being it till you see it. So, Barb Betts, tell everyone who you are and what you rock at. Barb Betts 2:21  Oh, Lesley Logan, it has been just so, you know, four years we've known each other. Lesley Logan 2:26  That's crazy. It went by so fast. That would be faster than high school. Barb Betts 2:31  I know that's funny. We were both part of a community that we met each other in, and I met you probably at one of my first events. So it has to be four years. So anyway, so my name is Bart Betts. I am from Southern California. I am a recovering real estate agent and broker who built a accidental speaking career while I was selling real estate, and that has transpired into me essentially stepping away from the industry. My husband now runs our sales team, and I now get to pursue my passion of being a thought leader in the world, of helping people build authentic, trust-based relationships with themselves and with others. Lesley Logan 3:08  Which is what the world needs. Because I can't tell you how many inauthentic relationship-building like things are trying to come through my DMs. Barb Betts 3:16  Oh yes girl oh yes. Lesley Logan 3:18  I appreciate when people like, Oh, I forgot. We should talk. I think we have a lot in common. It's like, I don't know who you are, though. This scares me. You don't know how much you're scaring me right now. Barb Betts 3:29  Correct. I cannot tell you how much I connect with that and how much it frustrates me. And I always tell people just continue to be cold in the DMS, and all you're going to get from me is I remove connection or block. So if that's how you want our relationship to go, then try it, because it works with me. Lesley Logan 3:44  I know, I well, I used to tell people, and maybe we've talked about this before, but like, when I'm still I still tell people this, but when I first started business coaching for Pilate instructors, I was like, your business is with clients, is like dating. You would freak out if a guy at a bar, and I'm sorry this is gonna be more heterosexual, because that's the experience I have at a bar. A guy at a bar comes at you and tries to make out with you. But every time you come up, people with come take my class, buy my package, you are trying to make out with a stranger at a bar. You have to, you have to tell me my sweater looks nice. Flatter me a little bit. Barb Betts 4:18  100% Lesley Logan 4:19  Well, we're kind of skipping ahead. So okay, you actually, I love that you're a recovering real estate broker. I don't think we've ever had one of those before. But how did you get into this? Like, what was the journey? How did you discover that you were a thought leader here? Because it's not like, I mean, maybe you've always known you were when we were born that way, and, like, someone goes Barb Betts, you are the thought leader on this, but, I don't know. Barb Betts 4:40  Kind of, what's crazy about this is so when I was like, as long as I can remember, I always wanted to be a teacher. I would play school in my room, and my favorite place to go to get prizes or rewards was teacher supply store. Lesley Logan 4:56  Oh, my God, I do love teacher supply, yes, that is the best store. Barb Betts 4:59  So I would get grade books and seating charts, and I would put the mean people with the mean people because I didn't like them, and I'd give them bad grades, and I'd give the Lesleys of the world that I loved. I'd give them the good grades, and I would line up on my camera, scratch kid dolls, and I would teach them school. So I've always had the heart of a teacher. Frankly, I wanted to be a teacher my whole life. I would have been 100% a teacher, I'd probably be a principal right now, if it wasn't for the fact that I got pregnant at 17 years old. I talk about it very openly that that derailed my college opportunities. And back then, in the late 90s, there was no Zoom, there was no online classes, there wasn't any of that. And so how I ended up in real estate is a story that it would be boring to tell ended up in real estate. Got good at it. Was doing everything by relationship. And about 2011 I was in an office where everyone was taking note that my husband and I weren't doing door knocking and bus benches and grocery carts and all the other things that realtors are taught to do. And so they were like, Hey, can you teach us what you're doing? I was like, Sure. So I did a class, and I'll never forget, a woman in her 70s came up to me, she looked me dead in the eye, kind of rudely said, you should never go on a listing appointment another day in your life. You should do this for the rest of your life. And I didn't think much of it then, but it has stuck in the back of my head. And so from there, Lesley, it just snowballed. I just kept doing more classes and more classes that led to stages, that led to bigger stages, and that led to me truly not believing but understanding and feeling the itch and the need that I do have thoughts, I do have ideas that can help people. I have a gift on stage, which not everybody does, and I need to pour into that, lean into that and move into this new next chapter of my life. Lesley Logan 6:44  Wow. First of all, thank you for taking us on the journey of how when that was because I think some people would go, Oh, look at Barb Betts. It happened in like, three the four years that they've known each other, you know, like, like the year before they met, she figured this out, she taught a couple things, and now she's a paid speaker. Like, everything starts back with and I have a similar story where somebody told me, like, they asked me a question, how are you doing what you're doing? Because whatever you're doing is different than the that the norm is doing. And you all like, for me, I love that your reaction is, like, kind of rudely. I remember thinking I was in trouble. Which is clearly an insight to the psychology of an oldest daughter. But like, I thought I was in trouble. Like, like, they're like, the way they asked, How are you doing this did not seem like they were excited about what I was doing. I had to sit there for a second realize, oh, they actually just want to know. I'm not in trouble. Barb Betts 7:31  They're actually curious. Yeah, they're not, they're not putting you down, yeah. Lesley Logan 7:35  Yeah. So then so and I say, I highlight that, because for everyone listening like there are things that you are so good at, but because it's normal for you, you don't see it as the strength right away someone has to tell you, and sometimes we're not listening to them, or we think we're in trouble, we're avoiding that information because it's scary. It would be like, I don't know. Like, owning that means changing what, how you do, what you do. Like, it's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go in this lane now that'd be really scary. Barb Betts 7:58  It was. It was really scary. And, you know, frankly, how it all happened. It was about four years ago when we met, is when I made the decision that my husband and I have ran this great real estate company for so long, but real estate's getting real scary. And I, if you don't know anything about real estate, you know, we just went through these huge lawsuits and all this other stuff, and I was kind of at the table for a lot of those conversations, and I knew how bad things really were, and I knew how much our industry was going to change. And I kind of thought to myself two things. One, I'm not fulfilled anymore. Just, I hate to say just, going on listing appointments, working with buyers, it just doesn't fulfill me the same way it used to. And then the second piece to that was, I am concerned that all of our income is in one basket, and if the bottom falls out of the real estate industry again, then we're screwed. And so how do I diversify my income and follow my passion? And so it was scary, because I was and then what were my clients going to think, and was my husband still going to have enough business? And I was the one that started our real estate you know, I was 23 years he's 19, but I was the face of the company, the face of the team. So like, will he still generate enough business without me helping him? All those things were super scary. Well, it turns out, fast forward, he's a better realtor than I ever was, and although he is completely different than me, he still gets the same thing accomplished. So it all worked out, and I'm doing what I love, and he's crushing, you know, his side of the world. And I still help in the real estate business. I still run our team and train and teach and all that kind of stuff, but my day to day, full time role is putting good thoughts and ideas out into the world and inspiring others from stage.Lesley Logan 9:34  So let's talk about those good thoughts and ideas because, and we kind of alluded to at the very beginning, we were talking about these DMs. You talk about authentic, like building authentic relationships and at the time I'm recording this you guys, which is, you know, a little bit before this comes out, I ran, I was at a real estate event. That's not a real estate event. It was a tequila tasting event, which, like, hello, I'm tequila. I'm in. I have liked, I want to do tequila sommelier. That is my next dream. If you if I disappear from this earth, I'm probably learning tequila you guys. So just know that. So I'm at this tequila event, and it's basically the way that he builds relationships, friendships, connects with people, and that's he's like, I don't do any of the things. This is how I do it. I had no idea what he does actually like until the day. But at any rate, I ran into a friend who I've known since, like, 15 years ago in LA, she and I both moved to Vegas, didn't know it, because, like, where we used to cross paths had changed, so I got to have, like, a sit down coffee date with her, and we're talking about how hard it is as an adult to build good friendships, great friendships. And I don't have children, so I don't even have the excuse of running into parents I may or may not, like, like, I have to just, like, look around a coffee shop and wonder, like, is that a future person for me, but in, everyone who's listening here, most every business requires good, authentic relationships, most hobbies, most like, fulfillments in life doesn't matter. So we can go business or personal, but like, everything kind of, I think, plays into the same thing. The authentic relationships are what make this world go round. How do we do that? Barb Betts 11:06  Yeah, great, great question. So, you know, one of my biggest mantras is in life is to have a real relationship with anyone else, you first have to have a relationship with yourself. I think the biggest problem we have in life is we're trying to build relationships with others, and we don't even know who we are. And so when we show up to these relationships, when we show up to these conversations, we're being fake, and we're trying to people-please, and we're trying to make the other person like us by not being who we really are. And when that happens, they're building a relationship with an inauthentic version of you. I like to say something to the effect of relationships are a mirror of yourself. You are only capable of building a relationship with someone else to the capacity you have one with yourself. So like what you see in you is what you will attract in others. And until we clean up the relationship with ourselves, we can't build one with anybody else. Lesley Logan 11:57  Oh, Barb. Barb Betts 12:00  It's the truth. I learned it the hard way. And then when I when I talk about this, I also stand on stage and tell people that this version that you are seeing up here right now, I was not this version five years ago. And so this is not something that I'm telling you. Everyone knows when they're 25 years old, absolutely not. But can 25 year olds learn it a lot sooner than potentially you and I have? Absolutely. I think problem is we have to have the courage to do it. Lesley Logan 12:22  Yeah, because I do think I appreciate you saying that like I think the older we get, the harder it is to kind of unpack the different masks we might have been wearing, some of us wearing because maybe we have a neuro divergence. And so we think we need to have those masks. Some of them are learned because of how we're grown up. And so then you have to unpack that and also recognize how long you've been carrying it. And then you have to get to know yourself. And that's so hard. Every time I hear like, getting to know yourself, I think of runaway bride when Julia Roberts is trying to figure out how she likes her eggs. Like, I think that's the perfect example of like, I don't know, do I like? Barb Betts 12:56  Well, this is so I always tell people I have, like, a big beef with the word authenticity, and yet that's what I speak on. I have a beef with this word because it's the most overused under explained word ever. It was Merriam Webster's word of the year in 2023 yet everyone has a different definition of it. The problem with the word authenticity is people think authenticity means throwing up your life on somebody. And I always say that's called oversharing. That is not authenticity. So one of the things you you said it in a different container a second ago, is, I'm so tired of this mantra of people telling people, and in self-help books and on Instagram posts and everywhere else, just be yourself. Just be authentic. And my question to audiences is, do you even know what that means? Do you even know what it means to be yourself. And the problem I have with the word be is, be is very performative. What do you want to be for Halloween? What do you want to be when you grow up? It's futuristic. It's performative. It's not real. It's not in real time. And so what I teach audiences is, what helped me tremendously, is reframing this conversation around authenticity and giving it not necessarily a new definition, but a new action to get there. And so what I've come up with, what I've used, what I've seen in my own life, is that authenticity isn't about doing anything. Authenticity is about undoing everything that isn't you and you said it right? Layers of performance, layers of protection, the masks we've been wearing, the perfect mom title, the perfect friend title, the perfect Pilates instructor, title all of these titles and things that we've been told we have to be so we try to be them, but we're really not them, or we're not them in the way that someone else wants us to be so how do we start undoing these things that have been holding us back? And for me, personally, it to, you said it, mine started on the playground when I was a little girl. I was overweight, I was not cute. I had coke bottle, thick glasses, I had braces. I had like five strikes in the you're the left out weird kid department. Lesley Logan 15:01  Barb, we and I, we would have been friends. Barb Betts 15:03  I was lonely. I was sat by myself, ate lunch by myself more times than I can count. I was also an old child, so I didn't go home to a bunch of, you know, siblings running around. And so what I always tell people is I became a professional on the playground of fitting in. I became a professional at turning myself into whatever someone else wanted me to be, to be their friend. Problem with that is that eight year old little girl never put those masks down. I kept wearing them my whole adult life. And that's the problem. We don't have enough courage or self-reflection, to sit back and go, you know, is this really how I want to show up in the world? Because you know what it is deep down inside, everybody does. And if someone has to tell you what it is, that's not authenticity, because that's someone else's opinion, right? So. Lesley Logan 15:56  Well, I had perm bangs, just just the bangs part.Barb Betts 16:01  Just the bangs. Lesley Logan 16:02  And and I will say, like, I love that I wore a flower girl dress to school one day. But also, I'm sure that's the day that people are like, well, that's like, you guys a big it's I went to school in the 80s. So this would have been '88, '89 a pink, like pink, big dress with the big bows, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I know I looked good and I had tennis. I was Punky Brewster before it existed. But for sure, for sure, so I know that's what changed, and now that's why I wear, you know, tool now. Barb Betts 16:40  Oh my gosh, yeah, I I love it. I put a picture up on the screen of me, and I always give the audience a second to realize that is me circa 1986 because they're literally looking at the picture and looking at me like, there's no chance that's her. Because some people are like, Oh, your childhood wasn't that bad. You weren't and then they see a picture and they're like, my my friends, when I show them the picture, I'll just pull it out at dinner, and they pee their pants, and these are friends that have been friends of mine for 20 years, and they're like, no chance that's you. Like, yeah, it is. Lesley Logan 17:13  So I want to, so, okay, we have to do the undoing. We have to, you know, really, truly find what authenticity is within ourselves, and I do. I'm with you, by the way. Okay. Side note, there was a podcast that did the war on dictionaries, and if you it's you're wrong about podcasts, you guys, that came out last year, you have to listen to it, because it's about why Merriam Webster became the dictionary that we all buy. It's so fascinating. I mean, who knew that could be fascinating? This whole book about it, at any rate, because I feel like authenticity is like an umbrella term for, like, vulnerability and all these different things. So you hit all that. So okay, and you mentioned that our relationships are a mirror of ourselves, so they can only go as deep as we can go as deep with ourselves. In the undoing does does that and making really? Does that make it easier to make new friendships? Does that make it hard to let go, because now I feel like you have to let go of other relationships like, and you're a relationship expert. Should we be letting go of people? Barb Betts 18:08  Well, if they truly don't fit who you really are, right? If you truly are not being yourself with them, and then when you are yourself with them, if you're not accepted, not appreciated, not felt loved, then absolutely there are friendships and relationships that I realized I was carrying on to because I thought they were the cool people to be with. And it turns out that they're really not, and they don't love me for who I really am, or my voice or my opinion. So I share it in a simple formula, and we don't have to get deep into each one of them, but I'll just give you the high level of the three things. There's lots of things you can do to start unraveling, but the three things that like changed my life the most that I feel like are the three that most specifically women deal with, men too, but really women, the first is to stop hiding, right? Because I always say, when you hide who you are, you limit who you can become. And I have a whole hair loss journey that you know very well. I wear wigs full time, and that's really what transformed my life is when I was going through this hair loss journey, and about five years ago, I decided to rip the band aid off. I was told my hair is never coming back by a very well-respected hair surgeon, and I decided to transition to human hair wigs, came out publicly on social media about it, changed my life. And that's how I know when you stop hiding behind who you really are, right, you can become who you're really designed to be. The second piece that I always talk about is we have to reframe comparison. I think comparison is the thief of authenticity, and I think it's the number one trap as adults, we get into. Social media, at your job, in your career, right? Some other Pilates owners doing better than me. I hate them. Why can't I be like them? All of the things? So when I say reframe comparison, what I mean is, instead of comparing yourself to someone else, instead, come from curiosity, like, they are showing you the path to success. They're showing you that you can do it. You just have to do it in your own way. And get curious about what are they doing? What's their background? What season of life are they in? Maybe you're not in that same season. Like you just said, you don't have kids. You can get in a van and travel the world. If another Pilates owner or, you know, instructor is comparing themselves to you and Brad's ability to do that, but they have three children at home. Guess what? You're running a race you can't win, but we still do it. You think, Oh, they've got it all together. Oh, they made the perfect lunch, or they did this, or they, you know, whatever, their top producer, and I'm not. And so reframe comparison with curiosity, and then the third, and people always think I'm crazy when I say it, until I unpack it, is we have to embrace self-doubt, right? We look at self-doubt and imposter syndrome as this negative feeling, and it's not. Self-doubt, I believe, is the space where your confidence is actually born, right? If you don't have some kind of doubt, you're not going anywhere. We all have it. And if you tell me you don't have doubt, I would argue that you're not being authentic, right? Imposter syndrome, right? I'm so tired of imposter syndrome being put in this container as you're a fraud or you're a fake. Imposter syndrome is simply a sign you're growing, you're stepping into some new version of you, right? It's like we have to look at these as green lights, not stop signs, and we have to push through them, because that is how you build confidence from the inside. It's not given to you. It's truly built by you stepping into these new containers that you need to be in, new rooms you need to be in new opportunities, new everything. And so I think those are the three biggest things that I help people with, is really breaking through those. And when you do those, when you stop hiding, you're breaking down your walls, right? When you learn to turn comparison into something positive, you rewire your brain. You're looking at it as like envy and as success, and I can do that. And then when you embrace self-doubt, right? You're taking something that's completely normal, and you're stepping through it, which is how you, how you, I believe, break through the walls. Lesley Logan 22:01  I couldn't agree more with all that. I actually like the one reason I think I love that Pilates is in my life as long as it is, no matter what facet it's become, it's because it's a way that I'm allowed to be curious in my body, right? Like, like, why is this exercise so hard today It wasn't hard yesterday? Like, it's a way to practice curiosity, which is something that like, for better, for worse, the way the education system was when I was growing up, you're not curious. You memorize and you get the answer right, or you get it wrong. So I it's taken as an adult, this way of practicing being curious, because that's not something that's natural for me. I want to highlight the self-doubt thing, because I think that is so good, because I would be like, with this imposter syndrome. I remember Seth Godin going, Yeah, well, if you're new at something, of course you're going to feel that because you're new. And it's like to me, I just tell people, congratulations, you're not a narcissist. A narcissist will never feel that way and the way that you just said it. It's so funny, because I didn't realize I have a process. I will come up with an idea. I will then have self-doubt. I have to go through that so that I can go, Well, what am I doubting about it? How do I either get rid of that or, like, learn the thing I need to learn, or research the thing I need to do, whatever I've got this project that I'm working on this year. And of course, as soon as I said I want to do it, I immediately was like, who am I to do this? What, like, Well, how would I solve that problem? How do I solve that problem? And in going through the self-doubt questions, I can figure out the things, and now I have even more confidence in the thing that I'm doing, because I went through the things that I was doubting and explored what that was. And I think that your positive reframe. I think every single person, if they can go, Oh, I feel like that's a load off of your shoulders right now, I feel free. Barb Betts 23:37  It is, well, you said it, right. Okay, so when you feel the doubt and you truly don't know how to do something, or don't know, then you get help, shore up your weaknesses, pull in people around you, or truly understand you have been you have been gifted this opportunity. You've been invited into this room, whatever it may be, because someone else, or the universe, God, whoever, sees something in you that you can't see in yourself yet. But if you don't embrace that and you hold yourself back, you're not going to go anywhere in life, right? You tell me, you show me any successful person that you put on a pedestal that you think has never doubted themselves. The difference is, they know they're imperfect. They know they're going to make mistakes, and they choose to show up anyways, right? Think about Gary Vee. Everyone worships Gary Vee. Gary Vee is amazing, right? He's up on this world level that so many of us are like, Oh my god. Started out selling wine on the internet, on YouTube, you think he knew what he was doing? Absolutely not, right? You think he was comfortable in video? Go back and watch him. He was not, right? He did it anyways, and he was okay with showing up. Clearly, he's very authentic and does whatever he wants to do, but people love him for it. So when you you mentioned earlier like this whole like leaving people behind, and what do we do? And does it change who we are? It absolutely does. It 100% does. But what I know for a fact, because when you choose authenticity, when you choose to show up real, relatable and human, I know for a fact, you give others permission to do the same, and that is the foundation of human connection, and that's how you build real relationships. When I chose to go through my hair loss journey, take my hair off on social media and show everybody my basically bald front of my head, I upleveled my relationships big time in ways I never could have imagined. Because it turns out, people want authenticity. They want humanity, and it gives others permission to do the same with you, and that's how you create a real relationship. Lesley Logan 25:42  Yeah, oh, I got chills. I I think that's so interesting that we we fear losing people by changing who we are, because we're becoming more of ourselves. We're, like, truly not just leveling up, because that can be a little masculine, but, like, I'll just say that leveling up ourselves, right? We're like, like, owning all the things about ourselves, owning our imperfections, owning our desires and all that. And other people will level up they'll be like, Oh my gosh, like, they're being pulled with you, and that requires and then some people won't. Sometimes those people just fall off. You don't even notice it. And they'll be like, Oh my God. I haven't talked to the person in a year, and that is a sign they let themselves go. They let themselves out the door. Barb Betts 26:27  Yup, well, and I also always want to make sure that I give this footnote, because what I don't want people to think is, you know, there's a filter that you have to put yourself through. And I hate using the word filter, but it's the best way for people to understand, right? Because authenticity without this filter can be arrogance, can be a turn off. Because what I always say is, there's different rooms you're in. There's different relationships you have where you bring your authenticity to the table. And you can't bring your whole self everywhere you go. If you bring your whole self everywhere you go to a boardroom, versus maybe, how maybe you have a funny personality and you're a jokester that may be okay at home or around the dinner table with your friends, but it may not be appropriate in the boardroom with the senior vice president of your company. May not be into your jokes that day, right? So what I always say is authenticity with an emotional intelligence lens, being aware of who's around you. What environment are you in? What's appropriate, what's not is how you have influence in life. It's how you build these real influential relationships. Because I may have a political opinion, everyone has one, it may not be appropriate to talk about that with a new client, right? It doesn't mean I'm being inauthentic. It just means I'm choosing not to share that part of me with somebody. And so what I always say is the parts of you that you do bring have to be authentic. So like, you don't have to bring your whole self everywhere you go, the parts of you that are showing up have to be real, and they have to be authentic. Lesley Logan 28:07  Yeah, I love that so much, because, like with the ADHD brain that I have, if I were to bring my whole self to every meeting, people would not be able to follow along. Barb Betts 28:18  Correct, 100%, like, you're authentic. You just said, I have ADHD that's being authentic. Yeah. Lesley Logan 28:25  Yeah. So I and like, I think, like, it's having that okay, so in this space, this is how I can at least, so, okay, right? There was all the ADHD that you just experienced, because my brain went to three places being able to say, Okay, I'm aware that I'm going to be going in a different direction where this conversation is going. I promise it's going to circle back, because my brain is going to get us there. But yeah, I have to know that. And if I, if I mask that, then probably the best ideas are going to come for me, because that's what I'm good at. But also I'm not going to share the four other thoughts that happened over here at the same time. Barb Betts 29:00  Correct. Yes, yes. You know what it is. You know, some people have quirks. Some people have things about them that are, you know, appropriate for, again, your friends at the bar, but they're not appropriate for the boardroom or for the sales call or for the Pilates class while you're teaching, or, you know, things like that. So I think it's just understanding that what can't happen is you masking and pretending to be somebody or something you're not. That's what can't happen that people can smell and sniff out right away. Lesley Logan 29:30  Yeah, they can. And I and to go back to, like, this whole thing, like, it doesn't matter what the relationships are for, whether it's because you want a partner or you want a best friend, or you want a dog walking buddy, or you want, you know, to get a sale out of someone, you have to bring the authentic parts of yourself to that experience so that they can also make the correct decision as well. Barb Betts 29:52  Yes, because you don't want people that want to be friends with the not real you. Because then that's why your relationship never goes deep. That's why you never feel connected. That's why you never feel excited about seeing them. All of those should be clues that either you're not showing up real or they're not the real friendship for you, and not everybody is going to be your friend, not everybody is going to have a relationship with you, and that is okay. I promise you, the real people that you are meant to be surrounded with will come out of the woodwork when you embody this, you know, authentic way of showing up in life. Lesley Logan 30:32  Yeah, oh my gosh, I'm glad you highlighted it's okay. Like, I grew up thinking like everyone needed to like me. Right? I like, how many people are, like, nodding their head, like grew up that ever needed to like me. And the reality is, is like, I that's not true, and also doesn't set you up for being able to be yourself in every room. And there's, I saw something that that I've quoted him many times, and so, just so you know, if you've ever heard me say, I don't I saw on a shirt or, like, a bag you could take the grocery store. It's, like, it said, not, it's, not everyone like me I'm not a taco. And, like, because there's all, there's a taco for everybody, and I'm just, but I'm not going to be everyone's taco. Barb Betts 31:11  100% 100% Well, and, you know, and it's also, you know, again, we don't have to go down this rabbit hole, but we were talking about it earlier, about how do you build relationships with others? And so you have to show up authentic and real. But then I also believe there's three key factors to every relationship. So this might because I know we wanted to talk about, obviously, the relationship with ourselves, but how do we build these relationships with others? And so I'll share that the I created a formula, I wrote about it in my new book, that there's three things that have to be present always in order to have a real relationship. And these are the things I think people miss. And I don't care if this is sales, leadership, friendship, family, romantic, I don't care what it is they have to have these three things. And I call it the VVR formula, and it's visibility, vulnerability and relatability. You don't have those three things, you can't have a relationship, and it works with yourself too. So talk about visibility, right? You have to be present. You have to show up. When people are like, I don't have relationships that I want, I don't have friends, well, are you actually visible? Are you showing up? Are you present? And then when you are present, are you really present? Or are you on your phone, right? Like, are you at the cocktail party, networking and trying to meet people, or are you in your phone in the corner, right? Yeah. Then there's vulnerability. You have to have some level of vulnerability with every other human in your life, or you don't have a relationship, right? And vulnerability can be everything from just telling your team, you know, I don't know the answer to that, right? Or it can be, I don't like the new software either, that they're asking us to use, but guess what? It's what we've been handed and we have to learn it, right? Then there's all the way level of vulnerability, where you're sharing your deepest, darkest secrets with your best friends. I'm not sick, because when people hear vulnerability, they think, I don't want to be vulnerable. Well, you have to have some level of it, or you can't have a human relationship. And then the third is relatability, right? You have to have some point of connection. And this is the thing I think people force. I think people force this, right, if you do not have something that you can relate to each other on whether it be a favorite sports team, or you both love Pilates, or you both love wine or tequila, or you both love a certain sport, or you both have kids, you have to have some kind of relatability with another human. It's why, when you go to networking events and cocktail parties and everything else, and you know, you and I have been in these rooms where someone wants to be in your contact information, and you're like, nope, not saving that in my phone. Pretend I save it, but not saving it. It's because you had nothing in common when you had your conversation. If you did, you would have wanted to save that information and create a relationship. So when were talking about building relationships with others. I just want everyone to know that I believe if you focus on those three things, how can I be more visible? How can I be vulnerable, and how can I be relatable? You will create more relationships than you know what to do with them, if you want them. Lesley Logan 33:47  Yes. And I also, I was just thinking like, you know, I have some friendships that the relatability changed during covid, they got they had a baby, I moved, all these different things. And so our friendships have changed. They didn't disappear, but we are finding new things to relate on, because the major things in our lives aren't relatable anymore. And so I think relationships can go through that. And if you really want them to stay, you find a new thing to be relatable on. Barb Betts 34:12  100% or or visibility, which is also the proximity principle, which is also the law of propinquity. Try to say that 10 times fast. The law of propinquity basically says that the greater the physical or psychological proximity is between people, the greater the chance they'll have a relationship, right? So if you are not either physically or psychologically in someone's proximity, you're not going to have a relationship. So we wonder why in sales, our relationships drift away. Well, are you seeing them or marketing to them? Because if you're not, they're not coming back. Right. Are they showing up to class? If they're not showing up to class, you can't, but you can't have a relationship with them. So how do you get back in visibility with them? How do you get back in proximity with them? That's why it's first, because you're right. Relationships drift away, good or bad, for various different reasons. But if you want to bring it back to center, then get visible with somebody. Get vulnerable with somebody. Vulnerability can be texting Lesley and being like, Lesley, I miss you, I miss seeing each other in six months. I really miss you. Can we get together? That's being vulnerable because you're admitting I haven't been in touch with you. Right? And then relatability, finding a new point like to your like you just said, you have friends that all of a sudden started having kids during Covid, and you guys don't have kids, and so they're doing off all the little tiny kids stuff, and you and Brad aren't interested in guess what? That's normal. You don't have to be interested in little kids stuff, right? So that's creates a little bit of a relatability difference. But can you have a relatability on something else that you're both interested in?Lesley Logan 34:15  Yeah, I feel like I could talk to you for hours. We are going to take a brief break and find out where I can get your book, because obviously I my interest is piqued. There's going to be other things to go along with once we get the first step down, then there's the next steps. And so we'll take a brief break and find out and get those books. Lesley Logan 34:15  All right. Barb, where? Where are your books sold? Barb Betts 34:15  Books are sold everywhere. Lesley Logan 34:15  What's the name of the book? Barb Betts 34:15  The book is The Relationship Advantage: Unlocking the Life-Changing Power of Human Connection. Just look under the relationship advantage. Easiest way to find it, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books a Million, as they say, with a deep commercial voice, everywhere books are sold. Lesley Logan 34:15  Yes, well, we're gonna get your book because I definitely, I mean, I've over the four years, I need to know you in this topic. Like every time I hear you speak, I hear a different way of it going, and I think it's the way of the future, even if people think it's AI, it might be AI, relationships are gonna be the thing. Not everyone wants to play with your AI tool if they don't know who you are. Barb Betts 34:15  Well, that's why I wrote the book, and I wrote it in three sections, and and just to give you the high level overview, it's the first section is all the relationships with yourself. The second section is, how do you build effective relationships with others? And then the third section is how relationships make an impact in your life. One chapter on sales, one chapter on leadership, one chapter on building community. And then the final chapter is how relationships are our legacy. Lesley Logan 34:15  You're brilliant, and also, you know, you're you're, you're Barb Betts on the on the gram, correct? And on LinkedIn, and all the things? Barb Betts 34:15  Everywhere grams are found. Lesley Logan 34:15  Yeah, okay, you have actually given us so many tools. I feel like we could just, like, clip it and go, there's your Be It Action Items. But just in case, you have other things to add to that, bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it, what you have for us? Barb Betts 37:21  I would say it comes down to the authenticity. It comes down to stop hiding, let your walls down, let people in. Admit you're not perfect. Admit where you're you know your vulnerabilities are. It definitely comes down to pay attention to how you feel on social media. Pay attention to what you're looking at, how you're comparing yourself to others. Really try to change that neuroscience in your head and reframe that into comparison. And I promise you, one of the things I tell people all the time is just DM somebody when you feel right, that that effort to compare DM Lesley and be like, Oh my gosh, your road show looks amazing. I'm so proud of you, even though you're looking at Lesley like, so successful. Everybody like her, right? And then the third, obviously, is when you next time you feel that self-doubt, friends, please look at it just in your head, think green light. Think green light. Think green light. That means put your foot down on the gas pedal and go. That is your clue to push harder, to go, to go do the thing, because it will change who you are.Lesley Logan 38:17  I love those. I love all of this. This whole conversation has lit me up. I'm so excited. You guys, please let Barb Betts know what your favorite parts were, what your takeaways were. If you were envious then you know what to do, she just gave you the tool to how to say that. Send this to a friend who needs to hear it. You know also it might that might even be a way of being vulnerable, like, hey, this really meant a lot to me. I think it could be really great for us both to figure this out. So I just think that there's so many different ways to take this. Go get Barb's book. I'm gonna get it wherever books are sold, and until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 38:48  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 39:31  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 39:36  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 39:40  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 39:47  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 39:50  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Aaron Anderson runs a link building agency — 8 years in, fully remote, team of 10. A year ago, his business was in negative growth. He decided to go all-in on AI and hired an agency to rebuild his systems. He paid them nearly $40,000. They delivered nothing he could use. While waiting on that agency, he started tinkering with Claude Code. Then he started building. Then he realized he was building better than they were. Today Aaron walks us through what he's actually built, what it's made and saved him, and his answer to the biggest question in our inbox right now: what do I actually do with this thing? Tactics include: automating the work you'd otherwise hire a VA for, rebuilding legacy tools without a developer, and the mindset shift from "what can I do with AI?" to "what can't I do?" Tropical MBA is a podcast for entrepreneurs building location-independent businesses. Subscribe for weekly episodes on business, money, and the entrepreneurial lifestyle. Aaron's company Hang out exclusively with 7+ figure founders in DC BLACK Our sponsor, Bento - Email marketing for bootstrapped founders CHAPTERS (00:00:00) AI Feels Like a Superpower (00:04:33) How Aaron Built a Lean Agency Business (00:09:26) Why Revenue Started Falling (00:10:04) “Maybe I Should Train an AI Instead” (00:10:33) The Moment Aaron Got Claude-Pilled (00:16:03) What an AI-Native Business Looks Like (00:21:52) Why the Old SEO Agency Model Is Breaking (00:23:28) Aaron's Advice for Founders CONNECT: Dan@tropicalmba.com Ian@tropicalmba.com Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella. PLAYLIST: The $10K Projects You Never Do (AI Just Changed That) How to Build a 6-Figure Digital Business with Claude Code We Got Claude-Pilled

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 2010 Seth Godin unpacks how advertising is shifting from expensive, mass-market magazine placements to undervalued, highly targeted web ads, and why that disconnect still shapes your online experience. He reveals how outdated habits in measuring and buying ads lead to cluttered, irrelevant digital spaces, while hinting at a future where smarter, more meaningful advertising could better respect your attention. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://seths.blog/2012/08/advertisings-bumpy-transition-and-why-it-matters-to-you/ Quotes to ponder: "Magazine ads were expensive because they were scarce, they worked (maybe) and they were sold, hard." "Most ads don't work because we click on them, though. They work because we remember them, or because they change our perception or tell us a story." "Until advertisers start to value the focused, memorable, impactful opportunity they have, web users are going to be stuck seeing irrelevant ads on sites that don't respect their time and attention as much as they should." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Ries shares how financial 'gravity' pulls great companies away from their founders' purpose, and his solutions in his new book Incorruptible (Authors Equity, 2026) Join us for a uniquely provocative conversation between our host, Richard Lucas, and renowned entrepreneur and "Lean Startup" author Eric Ries on his new book, Incorruptible. Moving beyond the surface-level summary, Richard intentionally focuses on the book's deep ethical and moral core, giving Ries the space to clarify and elaborate on his most challenging ideas.1 This is not your typical book tour stop. Richard dives into what he finds "particularly interesting," exploring why founders must prioritize building an enterprise "worth protecting" from the start—a business whose mission is protected by structural guardrails. Richard highlights memorable quotes from Eric's book, including:1 "Not every form of making money is equally good."1 "The more golden the goose, the stronger the temptation to butcher it."1 Ries explains that without these defenses, a universal, systemic force he calls "financial gravity" will inevitably pull the organization toward short-term profit maximization over "human flourishing". He argues that waiting until a business is successful to put in guardrails is "too late" because success attracts predators. Taking the principled path, though harder, Ries believes, unlocks "almost unbelievable superpowers". The discussion drills down into practical, yet philosophical questions: Can any system resist a corrupt leader? Richard challenges Ries on the possibility of an ethical defense military technology company (like those defending Ukraine), leading Ries to clarify that technology is neutral; the danger lies in who controls it. They also explore the failure of modern management practices, discussing how reliance on metrics like average hold time can create "false proxies" that actively make customer service worse. Finally, Ries advocates for a powerful solution for corporate governance: a universal director's oath, similar to the Hippocratic Oath, to bind corporate leadership to a commitment to the mission.1 Tune in to hear Ries's candid reflections, including his personal belief that integrity is not merely ethical, but a competitive advantage—the true foundation for economic success, while emphasizing the first step for every founder and entrepreneur: "First, create something worth protecting Links & References Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great Book release date is May 26 in the US, May 28 worldwide Amazon listing Website: here Seth Godin on false metrics Frankenstein, Incorporated by I Maurice Wormser Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

This week, Pete and Jen noodle on the importance of storytelling, starting with the story of what they each had for breakfast (or how they might approach a charcuterie board). Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: Why is storytelling within the workplace and as leaders so important? How might you prompt someone else to tell you a story, and how might that help you learn about them? How do heroes, highlights, and hardships show up in the stories we tell and the ways we behave? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

I almost didn't record this one. After six months of not being sick, I think I'm there. My voice is lower than usual and I've got that heavy-head thing going on. But it's week two of being back, and skipping week two wasn't something I was willing to do.So I hit record.Today I'm sharing the quotes and frameworks I actually lean on when I don't feel like doing anything. At risk of sounding like an overenthusiastic motivational speaker, I share some of the voices I come back to when things get hard or discouraging or heavy. Jocko Willink, Alex Hormozi, Seth Godin, Gary V, Steven Bartlett, and Will Guidara. I go through what they've each said, why it stuck with me, and how it all connects.My son Miles also informed me that dad intros are out of style. So there's that.Pursue Clarity, Paul

Most founders assume scaling means hiring. Jesse Hanley built a 7-figure SaaS and refused to. From Japan, Jesse runs Bento — a profitable email marketing platform — almost entirely on his own. In this episode, he explains why he turned down a ~$10M acquisition offer and the frameworks that make a one-person company possible today. Topics include: ● The “Main Quest vs Side Quest” framework for staying focused in an AI-everything world ● Why Jesse refuses to hire full-time employees (and his “cockroach business” philosophy) ● Turning down a ~$10M acquisition offer to protect his lifestyle ● How AI agents now handle support, bugs, and development tasks ● Building a new product in 5 days with AI that now generates ~$10K MRR ● The Max MRR framework that explains why SaaS companies plateau ● The revenue milestone that finally made him feel financially secure Tropical MBA is a podcast for entrepreneurs building location-independent businesses. Subscribe for weekly episodes on business, money, and the entrepreneurial lifestyle. Hang out exclusively with 7+ figure founders in DC BLACK Our sponsor, Bento - Email marketing for bootstrapped founders CHAPTERS (00:00:00) Solo Founder Lifestyle & Intro (00:03:16) Meet Jesse & Bento + Why Build Email SaaS (00:04:53) AI Models, Tooling & Product Direction (00:07:32) Work Grind, Family & Financial Goals (00:11:12) No Hiring, Contractors & AI Leverage (00:17:48) Main Quest vs Side Quest (Core Strategy) (00:22:13) Getting Customers, Self-Serve & Churn Limits (00:26:44) MRR, Pricing & Positioning (00:34:45) AI Workflows, Agentic Tools & Discipline (00:40:24) Revenue Goals, Daily Routine & 4-Hour Vision CONNECT: Dan@tropicalmba.com Ian@tropicalmba.com Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella. PLAYLIST: The $10K Projects You Never Do (AI Just Changed That) How to Build a 6-Figure Digital Business with Claude Code 4 Ways to Start a Business From Scratch in 2026

What if the secret to a well-behaved child isn't more control, but less? In this grounded and eye-opening recap, Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell break down key takeaways from Gail Hugman, an educator with over 50 years of experience helping parents and children grow together. This episode challenges the traditional “because I said so” approach, offering a fresh perspective on how teaching executive function skills—like self-control and focus—can help kids take ownership of their actions. Whether you're navigating homework struggles or leading a team, this conversation offers tools to build responsibility and independence. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:Explaining the "why" behind tasks improves cooperation and understanding.Children are intuitively born to grow and desire more responsibility.Transitioning from controlling children to teaching them internal self-control. Using natural consequences to help children process their own choices. The essential order for teaching executive function skills to children. Episode References/Links:Contrology Pilates Conference (Wroclaw, Poland) - xxll.co/polandPilates Workshop (Bruges, Belgium) - xxll.co/brusselsPilates On Tour® (London, UK) - xxll.co/potOPC Spring Training (Virtual Event) - opc.me/eventsGail Hugman's Website - https://www.lessonsalive.comCan Contemporary Pilates Be Done on Classical Equipment - https://beitpod.com/classicalequipmentWhat are the Best Pilates Books - https://youtu.be/JhBVaT2Umfw?si=ieeWA5_L-gvzrq5EBest Pilates Books from Lesley Logan - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exampleEp. 262 with Adrian Koehler - https://beitpod.com/ep262Contrology Handbook by Sandy Shimoda - https://www.pilates.com/products/contrology-handbookGet to Know Joe Pilates by Cathy Strack - https://cathystrack.com/product/get-to-know-joe-pilatesGail Hugman's Website - https://www.lessonsalive.comGail Hugman's Books - theendlessbookcase.com If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Brad Crowell 0:00  Listening to her stories, you know, she is intentional about giving people the tools, like you were just talking about the tools to develop as a child, to grow into the adult that joins the the pack, right, the society, right? And when you are empowering them with the tools, then they can make decisions that are logical and all those kinds of things, instead of just be like, I guess, like, like, think about it. If you're just like, do it. Why? Because I said so. What are you doing? You're actually, you're actually molding a human to always be told what to do.Lesley Logan 0:37  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 1:19  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the grounded convo I have with Gail Hugman. Hugman. Brad Crowell 1:27  Hugman. Lesley Logan 1:28  Yeah, that's right. I'm like, sorry, Gail. I know you're listening, but you know when you're like, oh, all of a sudden, hold on. Did I miss a G, H, whatever. Gail Hugman, she's fucking the best it was in our last episode.Brad Crowell 1:38  The two of you. So I listen everything on like, 2x speed. And if I could, I'd probably try to listen to it on 3x speed. And the two of you were like, giggle monsters.Lesley Logan 1:47  I'm obsessed with her. Like, I and I was like, when Brad came up, he was halfway through her interview, and he's like, this is amazing. And I was like, Oh, good, because I did go for a second going, am I about to, like, get all the parents to hate me out there, like, like, I don't want to be, because here's the deal, I understand, I don't have children. I get that. I don't understand the day to day. I can't even imagine the cell phone conversation I my kids. I'll just tell you right now, here's where I'd be. They would hate us. They would have a flip phone with those heavy batteries so big it wouldn't fit in their pocket. Like, no internet, you know, like, because there's so much research on, like, how it's, like, affecting people's ability to focus. So, like, this interview, to me, was so amazing, and we are buying all of her books for, sorry, Meredith and Kyle, you're getting them all.Brad Crowell 2:39  True, yeah, but actually, we had a chance to meet Gail in real life last year when we were in England, and it was so interesting. I was just chatting with her on the side of class, and the conversation was so like, she was so inspiring in the five minutes that we were talking that I was like, holy cow, you need to be a guest on Lesley's pod.Lesley Logan 3:02  Gail, I don't know if you believe in past life, but in a past life, I feel like we were family.Brad Crowell 3:07  Yeah, seriously. Well, I'm really, really glad that we were able to have Gail on, and I love that the very first thing that she said is, I don't think I fit the Be It mold, you know, and you two agreed that this would be inspiring the parents, for the kids, so that the kids can be it. Lesley Logan 3:25  I well, that's just it. I mean being it till you see it. Brad Crowell 3:28  I disagree with her in that she did break the Be It mold, but you know, I love the conversation. Lesley Logan 3:33  You don't think she broke them all? Brad Crowell 3:34  No, I think she was being it till she saw it all day, every day. You know like she was very innovative in her career. Fifty years as a teacher, y'all.Lesley Logan 3:42  Especially as she was talking about how she, like, got into what she's doing, it's a be it till you see it kind of a story. So Gail, so sorry you didn't. But also sorry, honey, didn't hate to break it to you. But also, I can't just have people who just tell me stories about themselves all day. We are four and a half. I would have five, almost five years in on this pod. Like crazy. I want to be entertained as well. I want to learn something, and sometimes it's bringing in experts who help us get to where we're going. You can't just be inspired all the time. You have to have information that you can integrate. So I really felt like that's what she did. But anyways, before we keep going and just complimenting Gail Hugman. Lesley Logan 4:19  Today is March 26th 2026 and it's wear a hat day. Brad Crowell 4:24  Wear a Hat Day. Lesley Logan 4:26  We celebrate Wear a Hat Day on March 26th is a fun and fabulous way to raise awareness for brain tumor research and raise funds while we're at it. The holiday was created as a way to get our heads and our hats together to advance research and find a cure for brain tumor so you don't need to have it affected to make a difference. We've got some ideas to get you ahead to this wear hat day. Do they? Did they give us any ideas? Brad Crowell 4:49  No. Lesley Logan 4:49  They didn't give us anything. No links. There's not a charity on this not further down. Okay, before we just start talking about a charity we have not researched, I highly recommend you Google in your area what local charities are doing with brain tumor research or state charities that are doing it because.Brad Crowell 5:08  Hold on, I'm going to read you more. Occurring in around 250,000 people global each year, we're still a long way to go in the study of brain tumors, but thankfully, due to science advances, scientific advances in the fields of chemotherapy and radiation, the survival rate is higher than ever before. Once, brain tumors meant the end of the unfortunate individuals who were who developed them. It wasn't until 1879 that a Scottish surgeon became the first person to successfully remove a brain tumor. His patient, young woman, fully recovered, and the tie was turned in the fight against the illness. So Wear a Hat Day is about brain tumors.Lesley Logan 5:42  You just said 1879. Brad Crowell 5:45  1879 Lesley Logan 5:46  Was there, so and also, you're not under anesthesia for brain tumors. You are awake. Brad Crowell 5:50  Could you imagine? Lesley Logan 5:51  Home girl was like, I'm gonna die. So you may as well open up my head. I trust you. They didn't even have I was but did we have pasteurization yet? Like, Oh my god. Like. Brad Crowell 6:02  I have no idea. Lesley Logan 6:02  Oh my god, definitely don't like brain tumors, but I am a little brave ass woman. Way to fucking go.Brad Crowell 6:08  So the scientific process that was developed though the following years meant a speedy advancement for understanding and treatment of the condition. The discovery of X rays meant that it became possible to locate tumors in the brain accurately through scanning, probably, instead of just cutting their head open, this has continued to be the best way to identify brain tumors ever since, and in the 70s, the development of computed tomography, or CT scanning, allowed physicians to see a clear image of the brain for the very first time. So it's only been 50 years that we've been able to actually see a vision like a full scan of the brain. But however, despite these significant advances in the last 150 years, there still is no fail safe cure for brain tumors. As a result, we get together on Wear a Hat Day to raise money and awareness for brain tumor research. Typically used as a form of protection from external elements. Hats are worn as a symbol of internal protection on this day as well. By talking more about this condition, we help each other to spot symptoms early on. By raising funds, we help support a scientist who are working on a cure.Lesley Logan 7:11  So we don't have any they didn't give us any charity just so, so go look one up. Okay, so go look one up. Here's the deal. There's someone in your life who has one. I have. My grandmother died of a brain tumor. Brad Crowell 7:21  She did. Lesley Logan 7:22  It's not genetic, so don't freak out when you hear that I have another family with a brain tumor. Brad Crowell 7:25  My grandmother almost died of a brain tumor. They were able to successfully remove it. And literally, it was as if she got 10 years younger during her recovery. It's crazy. Lesley Logan 7:35  Oh, my God. Oh, it was amazing. But my grandmother had one, and it was quite fast by the time we knew about it. And then my cousin, he's actually had brain tumors for almost 20 years. Maybe, I think we're at 20 years. They've done because of experiments and charities and and people raising money for research. He's actually been able to benefit from these experimental surgeries and and like ways of treating it, to shrink them. And so I just want to say, like, if you are looking for a cause, and this touches you because you know someone, you've heard about it, this is if we all have a cause. Just imagine, like, how many people get helped? So I think there's a lot of pressure on picking, like, I've helped everybody. No, you can just help one. But in any way there's, it touches all of us, and it's there's not always a rhyme or reason. So anyways, that's why we're wearing hats right now. Brad Crowell 8:22  That is why we're wearing hats right now. Lesley Logan 8:23  If you're watching on YouTube, if you're listening, we're wearing hats right now. Okay, Brad is wearing a podcast hat. Brad Crowell 8:29  I am. Lesley Logan 8:30  Last week we were in Poland, and I forgot that the 26th also we're, we'll be in Bruges. Oh, my God, it's gonna be so much fun. And, then. Brad Crowell 8:39  Yeah, we're probably in Amsterdam right now. That would be my guess. So maybe we're pulling into Bruges early. A night early. Yeah, possibly. Lesley Logan 8:47  It's gonna be so much fun with Karen Frischmann. It's a great time. And then we'll actually spend the after Bruges is over. We're actually about nine days in France. Then we're gonna pop on the train to London and you can check out and see if there's any tickets left at xxll.co/potlondon, super excited about that. I know that their Fridays and Saturdays are sold out, but there's some spots on Sunday, it's really worth going to. And by the way, we said in the last weekend, not sure we'll be back to Europe, guys, just got other places we got to see, too. Spring Training is a thing that anyone can join, and you'll be on plane two. You can actually join yeah, May. Brad Crowell 9:22  So after POT London. Lesley Logan 9:24  May 12th through the 17th, you can join from the comfort of your own Pilates space, wherever that is, all levels are welcome. Yes, the theme is about getting overhead. But we actually have people who will teachers on our team who do not do overhead exercises. We have a teacher on our team who are going to show you how, if you have, if you're in a larger body, booty abundance, chest abundance, like best ways to get overhead. And then we'll have hyper mobile teachers showing how you get overhead. And then we'll just be getting overhead, and you will have the tools you need to do the best thing for you. And that's the goal of spring training. So opc.me/events.Brad Crowell 9:58  Yeah, come join us. Before we get into it, though, with Gail, we had a question, so this is a bit of a long one. So bear with me here. Kendra @KennySwan on Instagram asks, Hey, Lesley, I watched your YouTube video on teaching contemporary on classical equipment. I'm a stat instructor. I've loved classical equipment, especially the Reformer. I would love to have classical equipment in my studio, but I've had some backlash from classical instructors that I'm quote, unquote not qualified to teach on classical equipment, so fuck the Pilates Blaze is what I would say. I don't think that's so crazy, though, sorry, I don't think that's so crazy though, any well trained instructor should be able to adjust for the equipment that they're using. I know there's some exercises that can't be done, not that many, really, though, right, like between the classical and contemporary. My question is, in your expert opinion, is it acceptable for a contemporary teacher to teach on classical equipment?Lesley Logan 10:51  Oh, my God, I. Brad Crowell 10:52  What the fuck. Lesley Logan 10:53  The fuck. First of all, just so you know, I hired many a contemporary trained teacher when I worked for Equinox. And guess what the equipment is? Classical. If you had to be able to manage it, don't, don't break it, but. Brad Crowell 11:06  I am so sad that that you've had classical instructors giving you a hard time, for even wanting to buy the equipment, they can just take a long fucking walk. That is so ridiculous.Lesley Logan 11:17  I know if you're a classical instructor who like, is like, can't believe this is how I'm answering. I we have to have a talk about the cult that you're in. I'm just gonna say it right now. I know that's not how you're supposed to help people out of a cult, but like, I teach on contemporary equipment all the time. Like, that's what I teach. I'm on a Pop Up Tour. You know what my classical instructor told me in my first training? She said, You need to make sure that you take the time to understand how to work on any piece of equipment you're at, because when you teach classically on different pieces of equipment, it will change the exercise. But you can't be limited to the equipment the studio has. So if you want to be a great instructor, you got to figure it out. And so every studio I ever went to, I would get on the equipment, I would make sure, I would figure what springs felt the same way. How do I set the ropes up so they feel the same way? I am so proud that I know how to do that, and no contemporary instructor says, Oh, she can't come in here. She doesn't know how to use these risers. She only uses the ropes on the bottom level. No one says that to me. So how dare these classical people say that? It grosses me out. So, just so, you know, anyone can buy equipment, just so we're clear, you don't have to be a trained person. Do I wish that people who call themselves teachers went through proper trainings? Fuck yeah, I do. I wish there was some sort of regulation making sure that, because there's a lot of people calling things polite that are not polite, like that's kind of where that comes from, that does not come from this. You're a trained person on how to teach. So here's the deal, Kendra, you've done the thing how to learn how to teach Pilates, right? Your first training taught you how to teach. Plus, it doesn't actually matter to me what it is. You can buy classical equipment. You can absolutely teach what you can translate over on the classical equipment. I don't think that's wrong. Sometimes you might need those tools in your tool belt for a client. And then you can, through my YouTube videos, through a lot of people's YouTube videos, teach yourself classical I do think you should read classical educated books. Not all of them are good. So here's a couple. We have a YouTube video that I'll go into, deeper books that I like about Pilates, and they're all, so the Caged Lion John Steel, Contrology Handbook by Sandy Shimoda, Get to Know Joe Pilates with Cathy Strack, incredible books that you should read that will help educate you about the why behind classical. Because I, what I don't like is when people just like watch a classical video, teach it in the order, but not really understand the why behind the what. Because that's why you want to change some things. So I do think if I was to teach contemporary I'd want to know the why behind the what, right. So I think that. But do I.Brad Crowell 13:42  That YouTube video, by the way, is called, What are the Best Pilates Books from Lesley Logan on Online Pilates Classes?Lesley Logan 13:49  So I I'm sorry, like anyone telling I don't care what school you're at. Brad Crowell 13:54  I don't think, I don't think those classical teachers are qualified to teach on classical equipment. That's what I have to say.Lesley Logan 14:00  I mean, like these, I bet you can, I bet you, Kendra, if you ask those people if I'm a classical teacher, those same people would say no, because the only people who talk like that are people who think, because who train me that I'm not classical. So, like, there's this weird group of people. So what you just met is you just saw big red flag run away from these people. These are not my people. So in the Pilates world, everyone's got to find their people, and I might not be the people for you. What I do have to offer if you want to invest in like an actual I would call, this is where, for teachers, I would call, you're looking for a bridge or a mentorship. If you've already done a comprehensive training, I think it's a little weird to go do a comprehensive training in the other style, where you're with people who've never taught before. Because one, they're going to be like, oh my God, this person is like, knows what they're doing, and you're going to be like, these, I'm coaching these people more than I'm getting helped. I like a mentorship program where it's, it is people who've all been taught but now you want to dive deeper into a study of Pilates. I have one. It's called eLevate. It's more than half fill for next year. It's lesleylogan.co/elevate, but you don't have to pick mine. There are other ones out there. Karen Frischmann is a dear friend of mine who has one she has hers like 18 months you just you're looking for a classical Pilates mentorship but you don't even need to do that to go buy the classical equipment and start doing classical work. You can have an OPC membership and learn a bunch of stuff. Everyone's following the order. Everyone's doing things based on Joe's intentions and using variations as needed. So you're good, Kendra, in my book, you're good. Those people can suck it. You know, in the words of pumps from my favorite podcast, they can fuck off.Brad Crowell 15:41  Well, if you have a question, just text us at 310-905-5534, or if you're international, feel free to submit a question at beitpod.com/questions, and also leave us a win.Lesley Logan 15:54  If you want me to get angry for you clearly, I will.Brad Crowell 15:58  Yeah. You want Lesley to tell someone to fuck off. Brad Crowell 16:00  All right, stick around. We'll be right back. We'll get a dig into this conversation.Lesley Logan 16:05  Hold on. Brad Crowell 16:05  All right. What? Lesley Logan 16:06  That co host, also, I've said it on the podcast before, but she did it again today, when I was listening twice, she says, in 2000 and 2026.Brad Crowell 16:17  2000 and 2026 yeah, that's so funny.Lesley Logan 16:20  I die every time. Like, she is making it worse. I like, love it. I'm like, what if that's how he said it? Oh, it's January, 2000 and 2026. Okay, now we're on a break. Brad Crowell 16:31  All right, we'll be right back.Brad Crowell 16:33  Okay, welcome back. Let's talk about Gail Hugman. Gail has been teaching for over 50 years, y'all, 50 years she's been teaching. She works with children and parents to help them flourish together. After spending decades in London schools, she shifted it into private practice to focus on motivation and self-development, helping children build self-control, confidence and independence, and helping parents rethink how they guide and support their crazy kids.Lesley Logan 17:06  Well, I mean, I just really am obsessed with this because, like, I remember listening to Seth Godin say that, like, parents roles after kids are home from school is not to help them, like, really do homework. It's to help them learn how to be analytical. Because if they could be analytical, then they can probably, this is before, AI guys, this is like, I don't know, I think there's like, 2015 when I heard him say this, he says, then they're they're irreplaceable, right? Like, if they can be analytical, and then I remember who's the host of Survivor? Jeff? Is it Jeff? Feels like a Jeff. Anyways, he he. Brad Crowell 17:45  Jeff Probst. Lesley Logan 17:45  Yes, him. He was talking about raising kids, and he said, you know, my daughter was talking about how she wants to be a large animal vet and she wants to be a tennis photographer, pro tennis photographer. Brad Crowell 17:58  These things go hand in hand. Lesley Logan 18:00  Correct. Exactly. That's exactly what his thought is. But you can't react, because then you can, like, affect them. So he just so his job is not to be like, oh, you can't do you have to pick one. That's what the world would do. He said, my job as her parent is to challenge her to tell me how she's gonna do that. So I said, Oh, that's interesting. How are you going to learn both those skills and do that? Do you think? What do you think? And she goes, oh, there's these two schools here that have really high performing tennis teams, photography as a degree and large animal vet. And so I can actually go to this school on a scholarship and get these two degrees, and then, because tennis is seasonal, I'll be a seasonal photographer when I'm not in seasonal work at this place over here in the large animal vet thing, like, she had it all figured out. Brad Crowell 18:48  Holy cow. Lesley Logan 18:48  So had he said, You have to pick one. Brad Crowell 18:51  Right. Lesley Logan 18:52  It would have just killed the re she did research. She figured out a plan. And look, whether or not I haven't looked, and see what Jeff Probst's daughter is doing. Because, like, you know, there's enough time that she might be able to figure this out, but that's not the job, right? And so that goes into what Gail's talking about here that I love. She said, I mean, you'll see how it fits in. When we talk about listening to children, we don't talk about the process. I will say, are you listening? And what they're thinking is, I'm hearing you. So, like, I've even done this. Like, are you listening? I'm like, I heard words. Brad Crowell 19:21  Right. Yeah, totally listening. Didn't process any single bit of it but. Lesley Logan 19:26  Anything. She said that, you know, even as adults, we are taught listening skills like, we're like, we'll go to events, schools, trainings, and they'll like, teach you how to like, process the thing that you're about to do. But we just expect children to know how to listen and like, what to pay attention to? Remember in Schitt's Creek when, like, Alexis, like, went back to school and then she highlighted the whole page. And they're like, Oh, you didn't highlight this. She's like, Oh, okay, like she was highlighting, like, what she was reading, like she wasn't taught, like, when do you put the highlighter on the page? Like, what's the point of highlighting? Right? And so it's funny, but like, it goes to this. And, like, I think this is where, like, as people with younger people in our lives, we don't have children, we're, like, when our nieces and nephews are around us, I'm trying to be really conscious of, like, Am I answering the question for them, or I'm giving them? Am I? Am I giving them ample time to, kind of like, process what what's happening and then tell me back what's going on. And that does take time. I just want to know. I just want to know I understand that takes so much time. I just wanted to tell them what to do. But I think you might have people who listen when they're older.Brad Crowell 20:32  Well, I found it interesting that she was talking about the process, because for me, I found she started talking about process in the same way that I've always talked about the why, you know, and when, like, I don't have children, but we run a company with people in it, and I've always found that when, especially when there's something that someone does not want to do, if I'm able to clearly convey why it always goes over better with them still grudgingly doing the thing, than if I'm just, like, just because I fucking said so do it? No, that doesn't work, right? I mean, they, you know, they might still do it and they might also quit, but, but like when people understand the why behind the what, now all of a sudden they're like, Oh, that makes sense. I get it. Okay, yeah.Lesley Logan 21:27  I completely agree. I think. Like, sometimes even just when we tell people like, oh, you know, like, it's really simple, you have too many clients, we need to raise your rates, and they're like, so scared, and it's like, okay, hold on. Let me paint the picture of why this is, how this is going to help? Like, I do think that you're right there. And I remember when you were training with Adrian Kohler, who's been on the pod, and you were frustrated, just even within a with one of the people who's not on our team anymore, but we'd hired for a specific project, and you were frustrated. And he taught you to even ask, like, Okay, after you tell them what you want them to do, ask them what it is that they're going, what are their action steps going to be? Because that helps you understand. Did they hear or listen? Did they process it? Did they hear what you said to do? You know, like, it's really easy for us to, like, say the right words, and then they interpret it incorrectly, just based on, like, It's the game of telephone, like, where people are, what words stuck out to them? What words triggered them?Brad Crowell 22:22  Yeah, Adrian was episode 262, by the way. Lesley Logan 22:25  That far back? Brad Crowell 22:26  I know.Lesley Logan 22:28  Did the year did like there was like two was there one year that was like two years long.Brad Crowell 22:32  But I agree, you know, like when we are willing to explain the process that suddenly really can be the catalyst that shifts behavior in a child, you know, or in a teammate. Lesley Logan 22:45  I'm just gonna say I don't think that I'm in a rebel at heart. That's not how I think I was born as a child, like I'm quite the perfectionist, overachiever. But anytime I heard because I said so, or because I told you to, I can go back to, like, 17 memories in my brain of me in my head, going. Brad Crowell 23:06  Yeah, exactly. Lesley Logan 23:08  And then doing enough to not get yelled at for doing not doing it the right way. Like, like you, you catch more flies with honey, but you also create people who you want to be around, if you kind of give them the chance to be in the process, learn the process.Brad Crowell 23:24  Yeah, and that, that actually feeds exactly into what I wanted to talk about, which was she told the story about this four year old who, when she was like, when Gail was putting the pencils away, the four year old was like, me, I want to do it. I want to I want to do it right. And she said something really intriguing. She said, kids want responsibility. They are intuitively born to grow. They are born to develop. They want more. They want to be part of the pack, a society. They see what adults are doing, and they're like, Well, I want to do that too. You know, how many of us remember thinking back to when we were a child and being like, I can't wait till I'm an adult. Why? Because I can make my own decisions, or I can do my own thing, or whatever the thing was, you know, and, and so, so, so interestingly, you know, actually, one thing that I found really interesting about Gail that was not explicitly said, is, obviously she is a patient person. Patience, right? And she's willing. She understands the she understands the kid. She understands what they're doing, why they're doing it, and she also understands when they're processing or not processing, the the information that they're receiving. She told another story about asking someone nine times to repeat back to her what she just told them to do right nine times. That takes so much patience to not get frustrated.Lesley Logan 24:47  I think that goes back to it doesn't matter what the goal is. If you're really clear on the goal, it allows you to to have I don't have patience inherently.Brad Crowell 25:00  For her, the goal was not for the kid to go do the thing she asked him to do. The goal was for the kid to learn how to listen and process what she what they were listening.Lesley Logan 25:10  But I wanted to say because we, I know we have some Pilates instructors who are listening, and they, they get frustrated when their clients don't remember the names of the exercises, or they're how to do things. And I'm a person who believes in like, radical responsibility. My clients are going to learn their exercises, and they're capable of it. I work out at gyms at a hotel. These are people on vacation who manage to come into a gym and figure out how to do something in there, which means they someone taught it and they figured how to do it. So I am willing to be patient enough to not over correct someone, or to do it for them instead, to go, okay, the 100 and like, you know, this one, it's, it's this. And like, Oh, it's this, okay, like, giving them the the time, the space. And everyone's like, like, I don't have my job is to entertain them. It's to help them know how to move their own body. And so it's really funny, because I have these clients who told my dad year, this is back when I was first teaching she is the most patient woman. And my dad was like, my daughter is patient, and I will say, loves, I am not patient. I am one of the most impatient people when it comes to the things I want, how I want things to go, but when it comes to someone else's process, I am very patient, because I know the end result is they'll have radical responsibility, autonomy over their body. They'll understand how to move it. I'm not going to be there when they trip or have to catch or grab something. I might be like, oh, right, arm up reach. I won't be there. So I think that I have no idea. I think actually, I haven't met Kate Gayle and been spent some time with her, there is a lot of patience to her. But also, maybe not, maybe she's just really clear on when I'm with this child, the goal is to give them time to process.Brad Crowell 26:57  Yeah, and for her, it sounds like like listening to her stories, you know, she is intentional about giving people the tools, like you were just talking about the tools to develop as a child, to grow into the adult that joins the the pack, right, the society, right? And if you when you are empowering them with the tools, then they can make decisions that are logical and all those kinds of things, instead of just be like, I guess, like, like, think about it. If you're just, like, do it. Why? Because I said, So, what are you doing? You're actually, you're actually molding a human to always be told what to do. Lesley Logan 27:38  Right. And guess what? They won't need those people in the future, because that's what robots will do. They could be programmed. People are not people will be rebellious. And I, I know y'all have heard me say this, I'm a little worried about who the fuck is going to take care of me, because their mom won't be around to tell them what to do, and I might need someone to take care of me because I didn't have children. So just saying.Brad Crowell 27:59  Well, well on that note, stick around. Lesley Logan 28:03  In case you need a motivation to make your child not an asshole, Lesley, your podcast host, is a little worried about her, like, end of life care, okay?Brad Crowell 28:14  All right, we'll be right back. We're gonna take it to those Be It Action Items that we had with Gail. So stick around. Brad Crowell 28:21  Welcome back. All right. So finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Gail Hugman? She said straight up, you cannot control children. You cannot control them. You have to teach them how to control themselves.Lesley Logan 28:40  I I have chills, and I love this so much, I feel like that has to be very freeing, doesn't you think it's freeing?Brad Crowell 28:47  Oh my gosh, so freeing. Like I freeing is a good word for it, but, but I, but I also think that it's, I guess freeing is the right word, because when people are feel like they have they will lose control. And what does it do for you as the person trying to have control? You get angry, freaked out, like, like.Lesley Logan 29:06  You're embarrassed. Yeah, all these things, so embarrassed, this, this, this child is like, like, doing the they're normally really good, like, all the things. Brad Crowell 29:14  Which are forms of narcissism, by the way. But basically it's, it's what you are when you're teaching them to control themselves, you know now it's not your responsibility if they control themselves in that way. You've taught them how to do the thing, and if they're not doing it, then that's some there's another. There's another thing going on there, because they know how to control themselves.Lesley Logan 29:35  Oh my gosh, you guys, if you did not listen to the episode, you have to listen to it, because it was very there was a whole point about the homework, the homework that made me like, I just was like, Oh, my God, I wish. I wish this was something my parents knew. I wish. I think my mom, who's a school teacher, would love this like my mom, I know would, because she, like, she took the homework away from kids because the parents were doing it. But like, this whole thing about, like, if the kid doesn't do the homework, at the time the teacher said it should take then instead of doing it for them or fighting with them, you take it away. The homework is done. It was supposed to take 30 minutes. It it's been 30 minutes, and I will go to school with you tomorrow, while you explain why it you couldn't get it done 30 minutes. Because then they have to have they have to actually think about why did it, oh, I was playing a video game. Well, now they have to admit that, or Oh, I didn't understand the lesson. Okay, well, then the teacher needs to know, because the teacher should make sure you can understand the lesson before you leave.Brad Crowell 30:27  Because they're teaching you how to do the lesson, not doing the lesson for you, like it's this is a perfect parallel. The teacher would never do your homework for you. The teacher is going to do teach you how to do the homework. So why do we feel like we are supposed to control children. No, we're supposed to teach them how to control themselves. Lesley Logan 30:44  Right. For example, I tell eLevate members, like the homework for eLevate is not mandatory. If you do it it helps me understand the learning style you are. It also helps me understand what you understood from the weekend I just taught you, which gives me feedback that I could never get from a survey, in understanding that I know what I said that weekend, but what did you hear? Right? Like, what did you take in? What did you understand? And this past homework thing, someone filled the form in a way that I've never seen before. And I was just like, hey, I think that, like, you might have misunderstood what's going on. Here's what I was expecting. She redid it, and then she explained why she understood the way she did. Crazy reason why. But it was like, you know, it was really simple for us to just do an example, and then people would know how to do it, and then, so, like, it also the teacher will learn I wasn't good. I didn't give good enough instruction. So I just, I love that. Go listen. The whole thing is so good. But it goes back to what you were saying. Brad Crowell 31:37  Yeah. And the two of you then got into a conversation about saying, you know, don't do this, or no, or all those kinds of things. And I'm not saying that you should never say no, but your example was that Joe Pilates wouldn't tell you what not to do. He would tell you what to do, right? So how should you control yourself in public? Not control yourself.Lesley Logan 31:59  Well also, like we just watched Crazy Stupid Love, because I love that movie so much. And Joe would also choose exercises that you needed to teach you teach your body what it was not capable of doing yet. And in Crazy, Stupid Love, Ryan Gosling, like Miyagi's, you know, Steve Carell, and I think that, like, that's all, like, the modeling of it is, like, you know, is really important. So there's so much, yeah, go listen to it.Brad Crowell 32:27  So she concluded this thought by saying, so instead of me trying to control them, the kids, I'll tell them the consequences of what they're doing. And this was also really interesting to me, she said, she said, look, talking to a child, if you continue to do this, I will get upset. Is it okay if I get upset? Because that is what is going to happen. And so the kid now has the choice to continue down this path, which they now know what it will bring or not, right? And she often, she said often, they'd be like, No, I don't want you to get upset. Okay, great, then please stop doing this thing, right? Fascinating. Again, patience. Lesley Logan 33:11  Like, it's like, I think of like, parents are like, don't eat that. You'll ruin your dinner. The kid doesn't care if the dinner is ruined, you know, like, they don't care. They want the thing. So, like, you have to come up with, like, Okay, if you eat that, it's gonna really make me sad, because I spent hours on making this dinner for you. That's maybe manipulation. Sorry, Gail, but like, I want to have dinner with you. It's important that I have quality time with you. I want you to enjoy the dinner that I made. Like, if you eat that, and then is it okay if I'm disappointed that you didn't enjoy the dinner I made. Okay, like there's, I'm sure Gail's books are going to be more articulate than I am. So go get them all.Brad Crowell 33:46  Well, that said, what about you? What Be It Action Items did you love from your convo?Lesley Logan 33:50  How to choose? Okay, when we are born, that's what Gail says. When we're born, we have something called executive function skills. Gail said we need, we all need these skills for learning and for living, but in school and often at home, we expect children to have them instead of teaching them. So for Gai.,Brad Crowell 34:06  So that we expect the kids to have the executive function skills instead of teaching them executive function skills.Lesley Logan 34:11  Yeah, so she said. Gail said, the first one we have to teach is self-control, then the next one is focus and attention and then organization. So if parents would focus on teaching these skills, children would do better. And I think, I know that sounds it's easy, clearly, in order, yeah, it's, it's first control, then you can teach focus, and then you can teach organization. And I think, like, what's so cool about that? It's one it gives you, it gives you a map, start with self-control, and then focus and attention, but and then organization. But I think it's instead of like, I gotta teach them how to like do their homework. It's like, you got to teach them self-control so that they can sit down to do the homework. Then you can teach them focus and attention so they can do the homework. And then organization so they know what time to do the homework. When can they figure this what is the best time for them? How do they manage their day? These are important things. I I am really sad for people who like, don't know how to like, put their schedule together. That's sad, you know, because it's clearly frustrating them. We have adults that we work with who, like, have a really hard time figuring out how to organize the things that they're doing or learning, and it's like, oh, they just weren't taught. And to learn that an older age is, like, really difficult.Brad Crowell 35:33  So anyways, yeah, well, just a lovely again, a lovely conversation, and I'm so excited that we were able to have Gail join the pod.Lesley Logan 35:42  If you did all this when you were a parent, I hope you pat yourself on the fucking back like, I hope you go this was the best episode for helping me celebrate how amazing I was as a parent, because I do think that most parents do not give themselves enough credit either. So I'm not here to, like, harp on like you're doing a bad job, but like. Brad Crowell 36:00  It did make me wonder if my parents had a method to the madness. Like, you know, they're pretty analytical. Maybe they were intentional about some of this stuff, but if they did, I'd never had a conversation with them about it as an adult. But, you know, it's intriguing. It's interesting.Lesley Logan 36:14  I mean, they might have because they're analytical. I think, like, there is something a little different about those of us who are raised to, like, go outside and play till the lights turn off. And there's definitely something about, like, there's that real people like, why are you guys drinking from hoses? Like, it's like, because that's we were had to play outside. What are you talking about? Of course, we drink from a hose, you know, like, like, but I like the fact that people don't realize that like, I think that there was something about the plane outside that definitely created a lot of this executive function, because, like, you have to negotiate with other children, of like, who's in charge, who's playing now it's my turn, like,Brad Crowell 36:49  Danger crossing roads by yourself. Lesley Logan 36:52  Yeah, I do I do think that there's a difference now than there was in like, oh, my God. We're 43 so, you know, like, I do, I do see a difference. And I just what I what I really wanted is for people who have younger children, wanting to empower you about what to stress about and what not to stress about. Like, Gail said it you shouldn't stress it if the homework gets done, like, that's not a thing, like, this is where they're gonna okay, let's go figure out why it didn't get done. Let's help you figure that out. And then if you did this, then pat yourself on the back. And if you didn't. Brad Crowell 37:24  We still love you. Lesley Logan 37:24  We love you, and they're taking care of you and not me. So. I'm kidding. I'm Lesley Logan. I love you guys so much. I'm Lesley. Go buy her books. Gail Hugman has a ton of books. Brad Crowell 37:39  Yeah. She had a couple of websites. We're gonna put those in to the show notes, because I can't remember off the top of my head, but actually, I'm just gonna look Gail Hugman her oh yeah, lessonalive.com, lessonalive.com, she's also on Instagram.Lesley Logan 37:54  (inaudible) how she did this stuff are enjoyable to listen to. She also has an accent, so my American friends, I know you'll love it.Brad Crowell 38:00  Yeah. And you can find her books at the endlessbookcase.com. Lesley Logan 38:02  Oh, perfect. Brad Crowell 38:04  Yeah, but I'm sure, I'm sure they're also on her lessonalive.Lesley Logan 38:06  So we're gonna order, to the Crowells. You are getting some books. We love you so much. All right, I'm Lesley Logan. Brad Crowell 38:14  And I'm Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 38:15  Thank you so much for listening. Share this with a friend who needs to hear it. Share with a friend who's struggling with their kids right now. Hopefully this helps them and Gail, thanks for being here. You didn't break the mold. Sorry, babe, but you're still a badass in our eyes. Have an amazing day.Brad Crowell 38:28  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 38:30  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 39:12  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 39:17  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 39:22  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 39:29  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 39:32  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Last week, I said that married men who aren't financially free and are spending their evenings watching sports and scrolling TikTok while their wives work jobs they hate are being selfish. The internet did not love that.But here's the thing. Plenty of people read it and thought, " He's right”. I want financial freedom. I just don't know how to get there.This series is for those people.Over six episodes, I'm laying out the complete blueprint for building a business that does a million dollars a year in profit.Part 1 is all about the mental game, because that's where most people fail before they ever write a business plan or pitch a single customer. I walk through why comfort is literally designed to keep you stuck, why being decisive matters more than being smart, what Seth Godin's concept of "the dip" means for your business, and why consistency will always beat intensity over the long haul.I also introduce Jake and Maria, a composite of real entrepreneurs I've worked with over the years, whose story runs through the entire series. By the time we're done, you'll know exactly what to do next.

This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the ways that AI cannot replace humans...yet. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What role do love and care play in the workplace? Why is having a coach important for skill development and growth? How might we incorporate AI into our work, without relying on it? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

In this episode, I reflect on a simple but powerful mindset shift I heard from Seth Godin, replacing the word “but” with “and” when talking about your thoughts and emotions. After heartbreak or separation, it's easy to feel like you have to choose between conflicting feelings, like being strong or struggling, missing someone or knowing it's over. But healing doesn't work that way. This conversation explores how allowing both things to be true at the same time can create more space, reduce self-judgment, and help you move through your emotions with more honesty and compassion. - - - - - - - - - - - - Want that chapter checklist just Click Here! Great news! Now you can find everything you need in one spot! want to listen to this podcast off of apple, visit www.JosieFalcon.com you can email me at devastatedtodivorced@gmail.com If you want to just send me a quick note, you can find me on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/Josie.Falcon And lastly, If you would like to interact with me and share with others please join my Facebook group  "Separation, Divorce & Starting Over"

After a week of going all-in with Claude and agentic AI, Dan and Ian share what happened when they plugged AI directly into their company workflows. What followed felt less like using software — and more like jockeying a team of agents. ● The 4–5× productivity gap between AI teams and normal teams ● Building a working app in a weekend without being a developer ● Innovation cycles shrinking from 45 days to 45 minutes ● The rise of “vibe entrepreneurship” ● Why this moment feels like the early internet all over again Tropical MBA is a podcast for entrepreneurs building location-independent businesses. Subscribe for weekly episodes on business, money, and the entrepreneurial lifestyle. Nat Eliason case study Hang out exclusively with 7+ figure founders in DC BLACK Our sponsor, Bento - Email marketing for bootstrapped founders CHAPTERS (00:00:00) The 4–5× AI Gap (00:03:20) AI as the New Electricity (00:04:30) Are Founders Already Behind? (00:06:54) Getting Claude-Pilled (00:07:18) Is This an iPhone Moment? (00:09:59) Vibe Entrepreneurship (00:16:33) The AI Privacy Tradeoff (00:17:25) 45 Days → 45 Minutes (00:20:26) Talking and Jockeying (00:22:45) The Hive Mind Company (00:30:10) The AI Gold Rush (00:33:50) Learning AI Together CONNECT: Dan@tropicalmba.com Ian@tropicalmba.com Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella. PLAYLIST: The $10K Projects You Never Do (AI Just Changed That) How to Build a 6-Figure Digital Business with Claude Code 4 Ways to Start a Business From Scratch in 2026

"Of Miles Davis' 50 records, 30 of them were pretty bad." Seth Godin - marketer, creative, and author of 19 bestsellers - explains why your work needs a practice and why that means accepting that not everything you create will be your best. Plus, get a rare peek into the personal writing practice behind his 20-year streak of daily blog posts.  Thanks for listening! New episodes drop every Tuesday. Make sure you hit the follow button to get notified.

This week, Jen and Pete define (and redefine, and redefine, and redefine) the concept of what it means to be normal. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is the relationship between normal and average? When might it be a good thing to be normal? When might it be a good thing to not be normal? How might we push back against normalcy, where we want to be extraordinary? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Today's episode is going to change the way you think about your life.  If you keep telling yourself you want to: -go after something bigger  -start something new  -speak up  -take a chance  -or finally do the thing you know you're meant to do in life…  but you “just can't seem to find the time,” or “make it happen,” this is the conversation you need to hear right now.  Seth Godin is going to call you out in the kindest, clearest, most liberating way.  Seth is one of Mel's most beloved business mentors. He's written more than 20 bestselling books, his ideas have influenced millions of people around the world, and he's widely considered the godfather of modern marketing.  But this episode is not about marketing.  It's about the life you want to live, and why you keep putting it off with busyness, scrolling, excuses like, “I'll do it when…”  Seth is going to teach you how to stop procrastinating and start moving forward, even if you're scared, even if you're tired, even if you don't feel ready.  Once you hear what Seth says about resistance, you're going to feel a fire in your belly to make you take action.  You'll learn: -The one word that is keeping you stuck and the one word that will help you move forward -How to stop waiting for permission and pick yourself -The small, simple way to start that actually works, even when you're overwhelmed -How to stop getting trapped by fear and what other people think -How perfectionism keeps you safe, but also keeps you stuck By the end of this conversation, you're going to feel capable, and you're going to want to take action immediately.  For more resources related to today's episode, click here for the podcast episode page.   If you liked the episode, check out this one next: Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You Connect with Mel:     Order Mel's new product, Pure Genius Protein Get Mel's newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration. Get Mel's #1 bestselling book, The Let Them Theory Watch the episodes on YouTube Follow Mel on Instagram  The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram Mel's TikTok  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-free Disclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're often great at making money, terrible at managing it. Multi-exit entrepreneur David McKeegan joins us to discuss personal finance built specifically for founders: The "refrigerator number" — what it is and how to find yours The 4% rule — is it still relevant, and what rate would you actually bet on? Concentration vs. diversification: when to double down and when to spread out Portfolio construction for 7-8 figure entrepreneurs (ETFs, TIPS, bonds — the real breakdown)

Dan talks with Taylor Pearson about a new wave of “agentic AI” tools like Claude Code — and how founders are using them to tackle projects that used to take days or weeks. From analyzing financials to running workflows and speeding up big internal projects, these tools can act more like a business collaborator than a chatbot. They also walk through how to take the first step if you want to start experimenting. Find Taylor Get started with Claude Code Hang out exclusively with 7+ figure founders in DC BLACK Bento - Email marketing for bootstrapped founders CHAPTERS (00:00:00) AI “Superpowers” for Founders (00:00:43) A New Wave of AI Tools (00:00:57) Sponsor: Bento (00:02:32) The First Time Taylor Tried Claude Code (00:04:21) The $10K Projects Sitting on Your To-Do List (00:05:13) Real Ways Founders Are Using AI Agents (00:05:32) AI as the Operating System for Your Business (00:13:07) The Breakthrough: AI That Reads and Writes Your Files (00:20:44) The New AI Arbitrage (00:25:16) What AI Is Weirdly Good (and Bad) At (00:27:36) Why It's an Exciting Time to Be a Founder Again CONNECT: Dan@tropicalmba.com Ian@tropicalmba.com Past guests on TMBA include Cal Newport, David Heinemeier Hannson, Seth Godin, Ricardo Semler, Noah Kagan, Rob Walling, Jay Clouse, Einar Vollset, Sam Dogan, Gino Wickam, James Clear, Jodie Cook, Mark Webster, Steph Smith, Taylor Pearson, Justin Tan, Matt Gartland, Ayman Al-Abdullah, Lucy Bella. PLAYLIST: Can Your Business Beat the S&P 500? How to Build a 6-Figure Digital Business with Claude Code 4 Ways to Start a Business From Scratch in 2026

Rebecca Hinds: Your Best Meeting Ever Rebecca Hinds is a leading expert on organizational behavior and the future of work. She founded and led the Work Innovation Lab at Asana and the Work AI Institute at Glean, where she partners with leading experts to help organizations transform their work with AI. She is the author of Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done (Amazon, Bookshop)*. Considering the amount of time we all spend in meetings, it's odd that most organizations do so little to measure meeting results. If that's sounding familiar, this conversation between Rebecca and me will show you exactly how to get started. Key Points Metrics that only measure the costs of meetings (dollars and time) can be useful, but rarely capture the full picture. Use Return on Time Invested (ROTI) anonymously to survey attendees to determine if a meeting was a good use of time. Also ask, “What would it take for you to improve your rating by one point?” Survey sparingly to avoid survey fatigue. Bringing in a survey 10% of the time is a benchmark to start from. If the amount of time in meetings vastly exceeds 10 hours a week, there's likely an opportunity to scale back or redefine the work before or after meetings to use time better. Equal speaking time in meetings is a key indicator of team performance. Be transparent with employees about any technology you use to capture data. Punctuality and attendance rate are indicators of how valued meetings are for people. Resources Mentioned Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done by Rebecca Hinds (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358) Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632) How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.