Podcast appearances and mentions of hilary jacobs hendel

My guest today is Claire Uncapher.Claire is an intuitive and transformational life coach, energy healer, and speaker.  She is on a mission to help people understand their symptoms don't always mean there's something wrong with them and the traditional model of medicine isn't the only tool at their disposal for emotional healing.Claire's first career was as a nurse and during that time she realized that people didn't always get the real and lasting change they were seeking in the traditional medical setting.  In her work now, she uses a holistic and intuitive approach to go deeper and equip her clients with tools to experience lasting change.  She combines root cause and subconscious work, emotional release, and conversational energy work to help people overcome their inner obstacles and become the best version of themselves.In our conversation today, Claire shares pieces of her own story and journey that lead her to healing, caring for herself, learning to choose and push the easy button sometimes, and more.Claire, thank you for sharing these pieces of your story.  Thank you for the wisdom and thoughtfulness you embody and thank you for the work you do to make the world a more beautiful and peace-filled place!You'll find links below if you'd like to connect with Claire, as well as links to some books we mention, quotes, and a free root cause healing meditation. Resources:· "It's Not Always Depression" by Hilary Jacobs Hendel· "It's Okay To Be Different" by Todd Parr (children's book)· Quote that we discussed: https://www.instagram.com/p/C7UsCutOwdq/· Free Root Cause Healing Meditation: https://claireuncapher.myflodesk.com/bodyspeakmeditation· Or, you can use this link (copy and paste) if you'd like: CLICK HERE to download a free root cause healing meditationConnect with Claire on Instagram @claire.uncapher or through her website at https://claireuncapher.com Make Life Less Difficult

Today we are joined by psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel for a deep dive into AEDP (Accelerated experiential dynamic psychotherapy).  Hilary recounts her transformative journey of discovering AEDP and the profound impact it had on her practice. Through captivating storytelling and heartfelt insights, she illuminates the power of this therapeutic approach to facilitate lasting change and personal growth. In this podcast, Hilary emphasizes the importance of embracing our emotions fully and fearlessly. She guides us through the process of understanding how suppressing or avoiding emotions can hinder our overall well-being and limit our capacity for genuine connections. By encouraging listeners to explore the depths of their emotional world, Hilary empowers us to embark on a journey of self-discovery and emotional liberation. ==== 0:00 Intro 4:10 An Intro to Psychodynamics 8:56 Facing the Unconscious with Strength  10:16 Hilary's Story of Becoming a Psychotherapist  14:26 AEDP: How Emotions Work in Our Mind & Body  17:27 Getting Out of the Head and Into the Feelings 20:18 The Change Triangle & Core Emotions 32:22 Working Through a Core Emotion 38:58 The Basics of Emotion Education  44:37 Understanding Emotional Control 48:39 Parenting as a Therapist 58:08 What Hilary Learned from her Mother 1:00:40 Conclusion  ==== Hilary Jacobs Hendel is author of the international award-winning book, “It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self” (Random House & Penguin UK). She received her B.A. in biochemistry from Wesleyan University and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, Time, NBC Think, FOX News and Oprah, and her blog is read worldwide. You can find free resources, classes, webinars, and curricula on emotions and the Change Triangle tool for emotional health at hilaryjacobshendel.com and follow her work on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube. Hilary's Website: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ The Change Triangle: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/print-the-change-triangle ==== Connect with Dr. Drew Ramsey: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drewramseymd/ Website: https://drewramseymd.com

Author and therapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel takes us through the meaning and importance of emotions. Using the visual of a simple triangle, she teaches us how to interpret and manage them so that we can feel more calm, content and able to enjoy our lives. To support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=51113687

Recommend this show by sharing the link: pod.link/2Pages In today's fast-paced world, change is the only constant. Yet, how do we truly understand, manage, and channel the emotions that accompany transformations, both personal and organizational? Whether you're an individual seeking personal growth, or a leader aiming to steer an organization, understanding the emotional dimensions of change can be a game-changer.  Dr. Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a prominent psychotherapist and author. Driven by her personal experiences with anxiety and depression, Hilary embarked on a journey into psychotherapy. Her profound insights into emotions, coupled with her unique approach to therapy, has been an eye-opener for many. Hilary ventures into her experiences and the pivotal role of Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) in her practice. Get‌ ‌book‌ ‌links‌ ‌and‌ ‌resources‌ ‌at‌ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/  Hilary reads two pages from The Transforming Power of Affect: A Model for Accelerated Change by Diana Fosha. [reading begins at 17:38] Hear us discuss: The connection of body and mind: “I noticed the sensations of tension in my chest that told me that I was anxious, and I breathed, as I was instructed to do, and voila, the anxiety went down, not up.” [5:58] | The 7 “selfish” emotions and why you shouldn't judge them: “You can't stop emotions from happening. All you can do is be aware when they happen and change your response to them.” [17:13] | Do our emotions weaken us, or make us stronger? [22:51] | What is the role of others in helping us hear the whisper of our emotions? [26:28] | “A basic education in emotions is the path to a more peaceful world.” [34”25] | How being in tune with your emotions brings out your authentic self: “Emotions are physical experience, they're there for a good reason, and if we avoid them, we really lose a connection to our authentic self and to others.” [41:46]

How do you manage loss? Or navigate endings? Can we avoid falling into despair when confronted with grief? In this episode, Valeria explores her own responses to difficult emotions. She talks with fashion designer and podcast host Whitney Port and trauma psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel about coping with endings. Join the conversation to learn more about the complex ways our minds and our bodies respond to change, loss, and grief.  You can find Whitney Port on Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and TikTok, and Hilary Jacobs Hendel on Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter.  This Not Alone episode is sponsored by Crown Affair. Get 20% off you Crown Affair order when you enter code VALERIA20 at checkout. That's crownaffair.com using the code VALERIA20 to get 20% off your entire order! Not Alone is produced in partnership with FRQNCY Media. Producer: Lizzie Stewart  Associate Producer: Emily Krumberger Supervising Producer: Enna Garkusha  Executive Producer: Michelle Khouri Script written by: William Cagle Script editors: Isabel Moncloa Daly and Jessica Olivier Mixer and sound designer: Claire Bidigare-Curtis Session engineering: DonTaé Hodge.  Follow Valeria on Instagram, Youtube, and TikTok.

We are often sold the myth that healing is a destination, rather than a journey. So, what are the actual practical tools we can use on a daily basis to heal on this journey? In this episode, I am sharing my favorite tools and also my daily healing routine. As a highly sensitive person, it definitely helps to have one! My favorite tools: Nervous system regulation practices Breathwork Emotional healing: observing emotions and expressing them, as well as Hilary Jacobs Hendel's work Working with triggers (regulating sensations and expressing emotions) Sitting with and expressing pleasure and joy ❥❥❥ Thank you so much for being here! I appreciate and love you so much. Please take a moment to rate the show and subscribe - it would mean the world to me! ❥❥❥ Follow me on instagram: www.instagram.com/marina.y.t FREE nervous system regulation online training: https://event.webinarjam.com/register/2/8o9pkfy Connect and Ground: 10 Incredible Somatic Practices for Nervous System Regulation: https://marinayt.com/connect-ground/ Costa Rica retreat info: https://www.anandwayoflife.com/costarica-retreat HealFlow 5 month group program: http://marinayt.com/healflow/

“Emotions” like anxiety and depression are often cover emotions for deeper emotions like grief and anger – and working through our resistance to these emotions so we can arrive at our “core” emotions can help us access our calm, compassionate self. In this episode, I bring on emotions educator Hilary Jacobs Hendel, author of “It's Not Always Depression,” to give you tangible tools for working through anxiety and depression to have a richer emotional experience.   Some extra resources: Why Can't I Shut Off My Mind? https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/post/2018/03/03/why-can-t-i-shut-off-my-mind It's Not Always Depression, Sometimes It's Shame (NYT OpEd): https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/its-not-always-depression-sometimes-its- It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect With Your Authentic Self (Random House & Penguin UK): https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Always-Depression-Authentic/dp/0399588140/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3UXPWILNH27FU&keywords=its+not+always+depression+by+hilary+jacobs+hendel&qid=1673190622&sprefix=%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-1 Print out the Change Triangle: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/print-the-change-triangle Facilitate Emotions Education 101 Classes with the Emotions Education 101 Turnkey Curriculum: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ee101-train-the-trainer-course

As a learning community, we want to share some of our best resources with you, let you get to know our team a little better and give you a peek into what we're learning. We hold a shared belief that, especially in a context where the pace of change is so rapid, ongoing learning that is fed by curiosity about what's happening in our ministry context, is an essential way of being. In this episode, we've gathered a handful of our teammembers toogther to talk about what we learned last year, to share a resource that will be helpful to our listeners, and to let us in on what they want to learn this year.  Trisha Taylor Learning to see her autopilot and intentionally disrupt it to "live more consciously, more thoughtfully, more awake." Two tools that have helped Trisha do this have been journalling and a "professional who knows how to hold space and listen." Don't Look Up [movie] Aundrea Baker Learned about emotions, the science behind emotions, and practiced "allowing myself in certain situations to feel the feelings and pass through them and get to the other side." Two books were primary for me in this learning, one was Emotional Agility by Susan David, and the other one was, It's Not Always Depression by Hilary Jacobs Hendel. Mac McCarthy  Over the past year Mac has been learning "how to process pain in ministry" and setting appropriate boundaries.  Two resources that have helped Mac work through this learning has been a coach and resources from Dan White Jr. and The Kineo Center This year he is planning to do a deep dive with his team into a leadership model that includes both men and women working together using Better Together Tim McGee This past year Tim has focused a lot of his learning on the power of clarity on communication and design.  "Clear is Kind" by Brene Brown A book that has helped Tim process and practice this over the past year was Strategy is Your Words by Mark Pollard Dawn Bird This past year Dawn has been learning to be compassionate with herself around patterns in some of her closest relationships.  Two resources that have helped Dawn explore this has been an episode of the We Can Do Hard Things podcast titled Breaking Cycles & Reparenting Yourself with Dr. Becky Kennedy and the book Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy Hello, Molly! [memoir] Victor Chiao Victor said this past year he has been learning how to practice courage and draw from his guiding principles in the face of anxious situations. And while he says he didn't have any tangible resources he offered these thoughts, "find others with a shared vision, a community that fosters safety, that allows you...to lean into those areas of discomfort and to have a chance to choose courage." Another way he is planning to lean into discomfort is by up Jiujitsu this year.  Jim Herrington This past year Jim has been deepening his learning around trauma and exploring the connections between trauma and family systems.  A couple resources Jim mentioned in the episode were,   In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate M.D., The Wisdom of Trauma by Gabor Mate M.D., and Amazing Place Family Caregiver Support Resources Thank you for listening. If you enjoy listening to The Leader's Journey Podcast, the best way to support us is to take just a few seconds and leave a rating and/or comment over on iTunes or share it with your friends on Facebook … Thank you!

Sherry and Carla get in the Halloween mood with some spooky spider trivia, and then take a Love Fix question from a listener that needs help learning to not always put their partner on a pedestal. They then welcome Hilary Jacobs Hendel, Psychotherapist, Emotion Educator, and author of the award winning book, It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle To Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self. Hilary talks about what the Change Triangle is, our 7 core emotions, and how to spot healthy vs. unhealthy conflict.    Connect with Us! The Love Fix | @thelovefixpodcast Get 1:1 Dating & Relationship Coaching  The Love Fix Relationship Quiz   Sherry Website | Sign up for your FREE strategy call for life coaching/psychotherapy with Sherry Sherry Gaba | Psychotherapist, Life Coach & Author | Join Sherry's Inner Circle for healing from Narcissistic Abuse, Codependency, and Love Addiction -($1 trial or 1/2 off 6 months free)     Carla Website | Instagram | Facebook | Contagious Love | Online Dating Bootcamp   Hilary  Website | YouTube | It's Not Always Depression    Sign up to be in TDR database: https://www.threedayrule.com/CarlaRomo   Today's episode is sponsored by Carla's book Contagious Love: Break Free from Codependency for Damn Good and Sherry's book Love Smacked: How To Stop the Cycle of Relationship Addiction and Codependency To Find Everlasting Love.   Thanks to Contagious Love and Love Smacked for sponsoring this episode.   What You'll Hear In This Episode:   Hilary discusses the 7 core emotions, and why they are each important.  The need for us to practice slowing down and really listen to each other.  99% of fights are miscommunications.  What is The Change Triangle?  We all have some level of dysfunction, but some people's trauma can be more debilitating than others.  Should you add that it's important for your partner to go to therapy in your dating profile?  How we can learn to have healthy conflict. Join Hilary's community, and get a monthly post with emotional wisdom, along with how to work with Sherry and Carla on overcoming codependency, dating, break-ups, healing from toxic relationships, and gaining confidence.   Disclaimer: The Love Fix Podcast content has been made available for informational, entertainment, and educational purposes only. The Love Fix Podcast is distinctly different from coaching, counseling, psychotherapy, or psychoanalysis and does not deal with the diagnosis or treatment of emotional problems. The Love Fix podcast does not constitute medical consultation or treatment, health insurance does not apply.

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, received her BA in biochemistry from Wesleyan University, a DDS from Columbia, and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She is also the co-developed of the Emotions Education 101 Turnkey Curriculum and Emotions Education 101 8-week class on Zoom. Hilary is passionate about taking the complex world of emotions and making them easy to understand and work with for greater peace, calm and confidence. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. She is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, "It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self" (Random House & Penguin UK). She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary's blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide.In This EpisodeFor more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit Hilary's website at Hilaryjacobshendel.com.Hilary on FacebookHilary on TwitterHilary on InstagramThe Change Triangle Youtube Channelhttps://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/emotions-education-101Order It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018)This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5739761/advertisement

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, received her BA in biochemistry from Wesleyan University, a DDS from Columbia, and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She is also the co-developed of the Emotions Education 101 Turnkey Curriculum and Emotions Education 101 8-week class on Zoom. Hilary is passionate about taking the complex world of emotions and making them easy to understand and work with for greater peace, calm and confidence. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. She is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, "It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self" (Random House & Penguin UK). She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary's blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide.In This EpisodeFor more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit Hilary's website at Hilaryjacobshendel.com.Hilary on FacebookHilary on TwitterHilary on InstagramThe Change Triangle Youtube Channelhttps://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/emotions-education-101Order It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018)This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5739761/advertisement

Welcome to the #SPAITGIRL Talk Show with Yvette Le Blowitz EP.155 - It's Not Always Depression with Hilary Jacobs Hendel  Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions and Connect To Your Authentic Self  Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a Certified Psychotherapist and the author of It's Not Always Depression. Her goal is to educate people on the benefits of understanding what emotions really are and how they affect our mind, brain and body. We live in a culture that values thoughts and logic over emotions. But science has proven it is not healthy to tune out our emotions and we do not have to choose between our thoughts and our emotions. We can become aware of both and understand how thoughts and emotions work together to help us feel better or feel worse depending on how we work with them. Emotions are very unique in their potential to cause traumatic stress and everyday distress. But what most people do not know, because we were never taught this in school, is that emotions are the doorway to healing our anxieties, depression, low self-esteem, and other mental health symptoms. Working with our emotions in very specific ways, which is what the Change Triangle tool for emotional health is all about, as it help us to manage daily life with more ease and helps us meet the challenges of our relationships. We were all taught that our thoughts affect our emotions, but in truth it is largely the other way around: we have to experience our emotions to truly understand our thoughts, and our full selves. This is why we should think not only about cognitive behavioural therapy or medication, but also about our emotions, when addressing psychological suffering. In It's Not Always Depression, pioneering psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel reveals the most effective techniques for putting us back in touch with the emotions we too often deny methods which can be used by anyone, any time, any where. Drawing on stories for her own practice, she sheds light on the core emotions (such as joy, sadness and fear), defences (anything we do to avoid feeling) and inhibitory emotions (anxiety, shame and guilt), and how understanding their interaction can help us return to mental well-being and be more calm, curious and connected. Yvette Le Blowitz Podcast Host sits down with Hilary Jacobs Hendel to find out what emotions really and how they affect our mind, body and brain. In Podcast Episode 155  Hilary Jacobs Hendel shares: - a little bit about himself - how is Author journey unfolded - insights into her book It's Not Always Depression - what emotions are - how thoughts and emotions work - how to become aware of our thoughts and emotions - what The Change Triangle tool for emotional health is - how to listen to the body - how to discover core emotions - how to connect to your authentic self - how to overcome anxiety and depression through a shift of mind - how to become self-aware  - how to build a better relationship with our selves and others - why it's important to slow down especially when it comes to our emotions and anxiety.  - some of her self-care rituals Plus we talk about so much more of course  Get Ready to TUNE IN  Episode 155 - #spaitgirl talk show with Yvette Le Blowitz  available on Apple, Spotify, Google, Audible, Libysn - all podcast apps search for #spaitgirl on any podcast app or on google  -------- Available to watch on Youtube Channel - Spa it Girl or Yvette Le Blowitz Press the Play Button Below and subscribe ------ JOIN OUR #SPAITGIRL BOOK CLUB Buy a copy of It's Not Alway Depression by Hilary Jacobs Hendel search via Booktopia our affiliated online book store  *click here Hashtag #spaitgirlbookclub //#spaitgirl + tag @spaitgirl - when reading your book  --- STAY IN TOUCH   Podcast Guest Hilary Jacobs Hendel  Certified Psychotherapist Author of It's Not Always Depression Website: www.hilaryjacobshendel.com Instagram @hilaryjacobshendel.com ------ Podcast Host  Yvette Le Blowitz  Instagram @yvetteleblowitz Website www.yvetteleblowitz.com ------- Become a Podcast Show Sponsor #SPAITGIRL  www.spaitgirl.com Email: info@spaitgirl.com with your proposal -- JOIN OUR #SPAITGIRL Community  Follow on Instagram: @spaitgirl Sign Up to our Mailing List: www.spaitgirl.com Search for #spaitgirl on any podcast app, youtube and subscribe  ------- HOW TO SUPPORT The #SPAITGIRL Podcast Show  Practice a Little Random Act of Kindness  - subscribe to the #spaitgirl podcast show on any podcast app  - leave a 5* rating and review  - tell someone about the #spaitgirl podcast show - share your favourite episode - tag @spaitgirl in your stories - hashtag #spaitgirl to share the show &  Together "Let's Feel Good From Within" and #makefeelinggoodgoviral ---- Please note - Affiliated Links included in this spaitgirl.com blog post includes affiliated links with Amazon.com and booktopia.com.au- should you order any books from Amazon.com or Booktopia.com.au via the links contained in this blog post spaitgirl.com will receive a small paid commission fee from the online book stores.  Please note - The information in this podcast is a general conversation between the podcast host and podcast guest and is not intended to replace professional medical advice and should not be considered a substitute for medical treatment or advice from a mental health professional.  Use of any of the material in this podcast show is always at the listeners discretion.   The podcast host and guest accept no liability arising directly or indirectly from use or misuse of any of the information contained in this podcast show and podcast episode conversation, or any trauma triggered or associated with it. If you are experiencing depression, mental illness, any health concerns please seek medical professional help immediately.  #mentalhealth #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthpodcast #selfhelp #selfhelpbooks #selfhelpbook #selfhelpauthor #selfhelppodcast #anxietyrelief #anxietyawareness #anxiety #depression #depressionawareness #selfcare #selfcaretips #selfawareness #selfcompassion #selflove #trauma #healing #emotions #emotionalwellbeing #wellbeing #emotionalhealing #selflove #book #books #bookclub #bookpodcast #author #psychology  #feelgood #mentalhealthtips #mentalwellbeing 

Did you do the thing today? And if you didn't, how do you feel about the fact you didn't do the thing? Today we are talking about procrastination, guilt, perfectionism and the worry of wasted time with writer and podcast host, Madeleine Dore.  Madeleine has spent the last five years asking creative thinkers how they navigate their days on her popular blog Extraordinary Routines and podcast Routines & Ruts.Mentioned throughout the episode: Book: How to Live on 24 Hours a Day by Arnold BennettRoutine and Ruts podcast episodes: Hilary Jacobs Hendel on emotions, types of shame, and slowing downPre-order Madeleine's book, I Didn't Do the Thing Today: Letting Go of Productivity Guilt in Aus and in the US here - www.madeleinedore.com/booksFollow Madeliene on Instagram:  @extraordinary_routinesListen to Madeleine's podcast, Routines and Ruts: https://extraordinaryroutines.com/podcastLearn more about Extraordinary Routines here: www.extraordinaryroutines.comLearn more about Madeleine and her work here: www.madeleinedore.com

One of the best things about doing this podcast for the past seven years has been how our guests have shaped nearly every aspect of my life and the lives of my family. Over the years my wife Julie and I have built an ancestral lifestyle we believe to be most conducive to health, connection, and longevity, largely influenced by the brilliant guests we've interviewed right here. The process has been nothing short of an adventure, and it continues to unfold. On this podcast, I'm joined by my wife, food scientist Julie Kelly to talk about how we've taken everything we've learned about health, wellness, and ancestral living to create a home life that truly supports and sustains our family. We talk about how we eat, prepare meals, and educate our kids and changes we've made over the years. Julie shares the immense value she's derived from a very specific type of psychotherapy, and we discuss how our practice of managing stress has evolved. We also give an update on our adventures in cohousing, and the number one factor that we've learned will make or break cohousing relationships. Here's the outline of this interview with Julie Kelly: ​​[00:00:17] Ayla is 6 months old; the birth experience. [00:02:21] Podcasts with Lily Nichols, RDN: How to Optimise Nutrition for Pregnancy and Real Food for Gestational Diabetes with Lily Nichols. [00:03:13] How our eating has evolved over time. [00:04:04] Podcast: How We Really Burn Calories, Lose Weight, and Stay Healthy, with Herman Pontzer, PhD. [00:04:22] Meal prep and shopping. Our eBook: What We Eat. [00:07:14] Justin Sonnenberg. [00:07:37] Lucy Mailing, PhD; Podcasts: 1. How to Optimise Your Gut Microbiome, 2. Microbiome Myths and Misconceptions, 3. Rewilding the Gut: Restoring Ancestral Diversity to the Microbiome. [00:09:17] Simon Marshall's Stress Audit; Podcast: How to Manage Stress. [00:11:31] Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP); Podcast: Healing and Transformation with Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP), with Jason Connell. Learn more about working with Jason. [00:16:27] Book: It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self, by Hilary Jacobs Hendel. [00:18:33] Forest School. [00:21:58] Book: Free to Learn: Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life, by Peter Gray; Podcast: Free to Learn: Unleashing the Instinct to Play, with Peter Gray, PhD. [00:22:36] Books: The Gardener and the Carpenter: What the New Science of Child Development Tells Us About the Relationship Between Parents and Children, and The Scientist In The Crib: Minds, Brains, And How Children Learn, by Alison Gopnik, PhD. [00:24:54] Book: Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World, by David Epstein. [00:25:00] Cohousing; Podcast: Contemplating Cohousing: A Paradigm for Modern Day Tribal Living. [00:25:07] Book: Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding, by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy. [00:26:13] Article: The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake, by David Brooks. [00:26:25] Podcast: The Postmenopausal Longevity Paradox and the Evolutionary Advantage of Our Grandmothering Life History, with Kristin Hawkes, PhD. [00:29:54] Our experience with Workaway.info.  [00:38:38] Our Workaway profile.

How has the mental health treatment system been revolutionized in recent years to better address the root causes of depression and anxiety? By recentering focus on healing rather than prescribing, many mental health professionals have found success. Press play to learn: Why "healing" was not always valid How slowing down can be used as a tool The meaning of AEDP Hilary Jacobs Hendel, a Psychotherapist, Author, Blogger, Speaker, stops by the podcast to discuss anxiety, stress, depression, and trauma. In recent years, many mental health professionals have realized it is equally, if not more, important to treat the underlying causes of depression and anxiety. However, instead of simply treating the symptoms, slowing down to address trauma and stressors has led patients to lasting improvements. By assisting her patients in slowing down to truly face past trauma or other triggers, Hilary Jacobs Hendel has shown that pills alone may not be the answer. If you are struggling with your mental health, you are not alone, and techniques like those shared here may offer the solutions you seek. To learn more, visit https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com. Episode also available on Apple Podcast: http://apple.co/30PvU9C

What lies beneath your annoyance? Why are we all so darn irritated? How do we get beyond it? How do we minimize the negative emotions so we can get to spending more time in positive emotions (like happiness)?  The new science of emotions has shown that core emotions provide a clear and direct path to happiness, physical and psychological well-being. Everyone can learn to deal with emotions effectively, channel them for the good of themselves and others, and improve how they feel and live! This is a foundational piece of a happy life.  Rather than looking at psychological symptoms as evidence that someone is "broken," we can now look at symptoms as non-verbal communications that tell us something is wrong and needs to be addressed from a standpoint of compassion and curiosity. In most cases, people have lost touch with their core essential being - their sense of self. Why do we lose touch with our core selves? As children, we all have the job of adapting to our families, our peers, our communities and our culture. We sacrifice self-expression to stay in the good graces of those we need. This is essential for survival. But when we deny, thwart, or exclude too much of our authentic selves to maintain our connection to others, we can fail to thrive. Fearing we won't be loved and accepted as our true selves - flaws and all - we teach ourselves to hide our true feelings. All this survival behavior leads to chronic shame, anxiety and sometimes, depression.  Our feelings are a compass for living, informing us about what we want and don't want, about who turns us on, what excites us, what hurts us. Ignoring emotions leads to stress, anxiety and difficulty finding joy and peace - a feeling of loss of self. It doesn't have to be this way! We can all live life with greater happiness, meaning and connection. How? By getting to know our emotions. That is what The Change Triangle is all about: it's a map back to the true self, and ultimately, happiness. Join Dr. John for a transformational talk with Hilary Jacobs Hendel, author of It's Not Always Depression.  Hilary Jacobs Hendel Bio Hilary holds a M.S.W. with Clinical Concentration from Fordham University. She studied at The Institute For Contemporary Psychotherapy and has a private practice in New York City. She was the mental health consultant for the hit TV show Mad Men Hilary has a passion for helping people become their authentic selves. Being "real," or authentic leads to greater connection, compassion, calm, creativity, courage and confidence. One of her main tools is "The Change Triangle -" a map to finding the true self. It helps people become reacquainted with core feelings like anger, sadness, fear, joy, and excitement. And it has helped many people recover a vital, more engaged, more authentic self. Web:https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.comInstagram:@hilaryjacobshendelBook:https://www.amazon.com/s?k=it%27s+not+always+depression Please like, review, rate and share!If you like what you've heard at The Evolved Caveman podcast, support us by subscribing, leaving reviews on Apple podcasts. Every review helps to get the message out! Please share the podcast with friends and colleagues.Follow Dr. John Schinnerer on| Instagram | Instagram.com/@TheEvolvedCaveman| Facebook | Facebook.com/Anger.Management.Expert| Twitter | Twitter.com/@JohnSchin| LinkedIn | Linkedin.com/in/DrJohnSchinnererOr join the email list by visiting: GuideToSelf.comPlease visit our YouTube channel and remember to Like & Subscribe!https://www.youtube.com/user/jschinnererEditing/Mixing/Mastering by: Brian Donat of B/Line Studios www.BLineStudios.comMusic by: Zak Gay http://otonamimusic.com/

"Exercise is my therapy" is a common phrase. Today, Jewel Anderson, a Licensed Professional Counselor in the Kansas City area, discusses why you could be using exercise as a coping mechanism. She discusses how exercise is often a "defense" against things of our past or uncomfortable emotions. She leaves you with a powerful tool, called the Change Triangle, that can help you dig a layer deeper to uncover what you could be avoiding and defending against using exercise. 2:55  Using exercise as therapy 7:16  Sublimation aka Defense Mechanisms 19:39  Avoidance as a defense mechanism 23:26  Emotional experiences after exercise 28:24  The Change Triangle 43:30  How to recognize if you are using exercise as a defense behavior Work with Jewel by visiting her website: http://www.jewelandersoncounseling.com/Book referenced by Jewel: "It's Not Always Depression" by Hilary Jacobs Hendel

In this week's episode, host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C, a trauma therapist, consultant and coach, talks about Attachment Styles and how they show up in our lives. In this episode you will hear Laura talk about:  What is Attachment?  How does Attachment develop?  What are the 4 Attachment styles?  How does Attachment show up in our lives?  Historical context of Attachment over the last 100 years    Resources for this Episode:   Dr. Robert T. Muller's book, Trauma and the Struggle to Open U Therapy Chat Interview with Dr. Robert T. Muller  Lisa Ferentz/s workbook, Letting Go of Self Destructive Behaviors: A Workbook of Hope & Healing  Dr. Janina Fisher's book, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Self-Alienation  10 Most Popular Therapy Chat Episodes on Trauma, Dissociation and Attachment  Episodes Linked from above:   10. Episode 144: How Does Our Attachment Style Affect Our Relationships? With Stuart Fensterheim, LCSW  9. Episode 198: Chaos, Conflict, Secrecy: Abusive/Dysfunctional Family Dynamics with Sharon Martin, LCSW  8. Episode 134: It's Not Always Depression, So What Is It? with Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW  7: Episode 204: Learning To Be Kind To Ourselves with Dr. Jane Tornatore  6. Episode 159: Understanding Polyvagal Theory with Deb Dana, LCSW  5. Episode 191: Understanding Childhood Emotional Neglect with Dr. Jonice Webb  4. Episode 202: Inherited Family Trauma with Mark Wolynn  3. Episode 194: Childhood Trauma and the Mind/Body Connection with Dr. Gabor Maté  2. Episode 212: All About Dissociation - 4 Episode Compilation including interviews with Kathy Steele, LCSW and Dr. Dick Schwartz   1. Episode 111: Relationships and Childhood Emotional Neglect with Dr. Jonice Webb  Healthline Article on Avoidant Attachment  Healthline Article on Disorganized Attachment  CPTSD Foundation Article on Anxious Attachment  E-Course from Dr. Daniel Siegel and Dr. Lisa Firestone on Attachment  Michelle Farris's Blog with information on Codependency   Sharon Martin's website with her books, blog posts and more on Codependency and Perfectionism  Dr. Jonice Webb's Childhood Emotional Neglect Website  Nedra Tawwab's book Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself.  Additional Links:  Leave a message with a question to be included in a future episode: https://www.speakpipe.com/traumachatpod  Follow Trauma Chat on Instagram: www.instagram.com/traumachatpod  Follow Trauma Therapy Coaching & Consulting on Facebook: www.facebook.com/traumatherapyconsulting   Get more information on Trauma Chat at: www.traumachatpod.com. Sign up for the email list to stay in touch and receive a free gift!  New website coming soon: www.traumatherapistnetwork.com - a community for finding information, resources and help for trauma. Sign up for the email list to be notified when the website goes live and receive a free gift!  To listen to Laura's other podcast, Therapy Chat, go to: www.therapychatpodcast.com   If you like Trauma Chat please go to iTunes and leave a rating and review and subscribe to receive each episode as soon as it comes out.  Podcast Produced by Pete Bailey - https://petebailey.net/audio 

Back on the podcast with me today is licensed therapist and certified meditation teacher, Jason Connell. His work focuses on the intersection of evidence-based psychology, philosophy, and enduring insights from the wisdom traditions. His goal is to help his clients develop self-love and self-compassion while solving persistent and challenging problems related to happiness, stress, anxiety, work, relationships, and finding meaning. On this podcast, Jason talks about Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP), the approach he uses to foster connection and facilitate positive transformational experiences with his clients. We discuss the goals of this therapeutic method, including the healing of attachment injury, which affects about 50% of the population. You can also listen in as Jason guides me through a short AEDP session right here on the podcast. Here's the outline of this interview with Jason Connell: [00:02:13] People experience greater stress in urban areas; Study: Lederbogen, Florian, et al. "City living and urban upbringing affect neural social stress processing in humans." Nature 474.7352 (2011): 498-501. [00:03:20] Jason's previous NBT podcast: From Magic to Mindfulness: The Evolution of an Entrepreneur. [00:03:33] Book: It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self, by Hilary Jacobs Hendel. [00:03:39] Book: The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma, by Bessel van der Kolk. [00:06:01] Podcast: The Neurophysiology of Safety and How to Feel Safe, with Stephen Porges. [00:06:43] The need to belong. [00:06:51] Podcast: The Postmenopausal Longevity Paradox and the Evolutionary Advantage of Our Grandmothering Life History, with Kristen Hawkes, PhD. [00:07:53] Change triangle. [00:08:26] Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP), founded by Diana Fosha, PhD. [00:10:08] Attachment theory - 50% are securely attached, 50% have attachment injury. [00:12:59] John Bowlby's work on attachment. [00:13:02] Book: Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding, by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy. [00:13:06] Book: Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma and Consensual Nonmonogamy, by Jessica Fern. [00:26:04] Book: Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion, by Paul Bloom. [00:26:45] Compassion vs. Empathy. [00:28:19] Polyvagal theory. [00:30:54] Physiological safety. [00:32:46] Alexithymia. [00:37:05] AEDP demonstration. [01:02:54] Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) vs. AEDP. [01:12:16] AEDP Practitioner Directory. [01:13:39] Emotional Focused Therapy (couples) and Internal Family Systems (families); Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR). [01:14:55] Find Jason at jasonconnell.co.

Stella and Sasha sit down with Jessie Mannisto, the Editor in Chief of Third Factor Magazine, a publication for and about uncommon people and their uncommon paths through life. Jessie expands on the many overlapping experiences of gifted, creative, intense, and gender dysphoric individuals. They explore some critiques and uses of terms like ‘queer' and ‘asexual.' Stella and Sasha ask Jessie about androgyny, loneliness, ordinariness, and exceptionalism in dysphoria people. And what's up with anime and fan fiction amongst gender-questioning youth?  Links: Jessie Mannisto on Sasha's YouTube Channel  Disintegration as an Opportunity for Growth:   Part 1:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGBcqT6h0Pw&t=1081s ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGBcqT6h0Pw&t=1081s)   Part 2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFKpuoR9-zg&t=2s ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFKpuoR9-zg&t=2s)     Where Intensity and Gender Dysphoria Meet:   https://www.thirdfactor.org/intensity-gender-dysphoria (https://www.thirdfactor.org/intensity-gender-dysphoria)   Existential Depression in Gifted Individuals: https://www.sengifted.org/post/existential-depression-in-gifted-individuals (https://www.sengifted.org/post/existential-depression-in-gifted-individuals )   Rainforest mind - Paula Prober:   https://www.amazon.com/Your-Rainforest-Mind-Well-Being-Gifted/dp/0692713107 (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Rainforest-Mind-Well-Being-Gifted/dp/0692713107)    Hilary Jacobs Hendel -https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Always-Depression-Authentic/dp/0399588140 ( https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Always-Depression-Authentic/dp/0399588140)    Creativity  https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Psychology-Discovery-Invention-Perennial-ebook/dp/B000TG1X9C (https://www.amazon.com/Creativity-Psychology-Discovery-Invention-Perennial-ebook/dp/B000TG1X9C)    Third Factor Magazine:https://www.thirdfactor.org/ ( https://www.thirdfactor.org/)   Twitter:https://twitter.com/thirdfactormag?lang=en ( https://twitter.com/thirdfactormag?lang=en)  Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/ThirdFactorMag/ ( https://www.facebook.com/ThirdFactorMag/)      Extended Notes A little bit about Jessie and how she got involved in the field of giftedness and overexcitability. Jessie noticed a connection between gender dysphoric people and giftedness. What is the definition of “giftedness”? There are five domains or key areas where you can be gifted: Intellect, imagination, psychomotor, sensory, and emotions. How do these domains manifest into those who are extremely gifted? Although not a reliable measure, overexcitability is often linked to giftedness. One of the ways people tried to test for giftedness was through overexcitability, but it was not conclusive. What is the “hedgehog dilemma”? The more that you're an outlier, the more you try to seek out people who are like you to confirm that you're “okay” and not abnormal. Belonging is the biggest issue for these types of people. What is a “magnet” school? Most gifted people know they're difficult and can be hard to manage. Jessie believes some of these gender rules and norms are a reaction to them needing order and relatability in the world. Overexcitable people often feel very alone and like there's no one out there who shares their pain. Putting people together in “gifted” rooms is not the answer. It's the ability to share common interests together that makes it valuable. The search for meaning and the search for happiness is too vague. This is an age-old problem, people want to find someplace they belong. Jessie was told at a young age to “not intimidate the boys or they won't like you.” She understands why falling into an androgynous category was so appealing. Giftedness is such a problematic word, but Jessie didn't know what was the best word to use at the time. Really, she likes to use “questioner.”... Support this podcast

In this Encore episode, Kristen interviews Hilary Jacobs Hendel about using our emotions as a direct pathway to healing psychological suffering. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com Subscribe and Get a free 5-day journal at www.kristendboice.com/freeresources to begin closing the chapter on what doesn't serve you and open the door to the real you. This information is being provided to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is being provided to you to educate you about ideas on stress management and as a self-help tool for your own use. It is not psychotherapy/counseling in any form. This information is to be used at your own risk based on your own judgment.  For my full Disclaimer please to to www.kristendboice.com. For counseling services near Indianapolis, IN, visit www.pathwaystohealingcounseling.com. Pathways to Healing Counseling's vision is to provide warm, caring, compassionate and life-changing counseling services and educational programs to individuals, couples and families in order to create learning, healing and growth.

Michael S. Sorensen is a business executive by day and a bestselling author, speaker, and relationship coach by night. He has helped hundreds of thousands of people across the world heal broken relationships, revitalize their confidence, and become masters of connection in business, love, and life. Unique among others in his field, Michael is not a therapist, social worker, or medical professional. Instead, he gained his knowledge by going to therapy himself—1-2 times per week, for over five years—and voraciously consuming every relationship and self-help book he could get his hands on. On this podcast, Michael talks about one of the most valuable (yet little-known) communication skills - validation. The subject of his book, I Hear You, validation is the key to calming fears and uncertainties, increasing feelings of love and appreciation in relationships, and giving advice and feedback that sticks. Michael shares his 4-step method for validating others (and oneself), talks about how to identify emotions, and shares why validation is such a simple yet powerful interpersonal tool. Here’s the outline of this interview with Michael Sorensen: [00:00:31] Book: I Hear You: The Surprisingly Simple Skill Behind Extraordinary Relationships, by Michael S. Sorensen. [00:00:43] Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Anna Dow. [00:00:54] Book: Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It, by Chris Voss. [00:01:31] How Michael came to the skill of validation. [00:03:38] Defining validation. [00:05:16] Simon Marshall, PhD. [00:06:49] Listening vs. validation. [00:07:45] Podcast: The Postmenopausal Longevity Paradox and the Evolutionary Advantage of Our Grandmothering Life History, with Kristin Hawkes, PhD. [00:09:37] Benefits of validation. [00:11:25] Invalidating statements. [00:14:35] When to validate. [00:15:11] 4 step method: Listen empathically, validate, advice/feedback, validate again. [00:16:56] How to identify emotions. [00:18:16] Emotion wheel. [00:18:56] Podcast: From Magic to Mindfulness: The Evolution of an Entrepreneur, with Jason Connell. [00:19:23] Book: It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self, by Hilary Jacobs Hendel. [00:24:52] Validation vs. reflective listening. [00:27:23] Validating when you don't agree. [00:33:05] Why it’s a short book. [00:34:41] The I Hear You Relationships Podcast. [00:35:35] Validating ourselves. [00:37:32] Find Michael: Amazon, michaelssorensen.com.

Welcome back to Therapy Chat! In today's episode host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C details some exciting things that are coming up in the near future including: the next training Laura is pursuing... podcast episode transcripts are coming! Therapy Chat is getting a new website that will have all podcast episodes, including transcripts, and more! Laura is creating a new offering to help everyone learn about trauma that is launching 6/15/21! To celebrate, in today's episode Laura shared the 10 most popular episodes of Therapy Chat on the topics of trauma, attachment and dissociation. Links to each episode are below! Lastly, Laura shared that she has an even bigger project coming up at the end of the summer that she can't wait for you to know about (psst - you'll get a hint if you go to www.traumachatpod.com and sign up to be notified)! Top 10 Therapy Chat Episodes on Trauma, Attachment & Dissociation: 10. Episode 144: How Does Our Attachment Style Affect Our Relationships? With Stuart Fensterheim, LCSW 9. Episode 198: Chaos, Conflict, Secrecy: Abusive/Dysfunctional Family Dynamics with Sharon Martin, LCSW 8. Episode 134: It's Not Always Depression, So What Is It? with Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW 7: Episode 204: Learning To Be Kind To Ourselves with Dr. Jane Tornatore 6. Episode 159: Understanding Polyvagal Theory with Deb Dana, LCSW 5. Episode 191: Understanding Childhood Emotional Neglect with Dr. Jonice Webb 4. Episode 202: Inherited Family Trauma with Mark Wolynn 3. Episode 194: Childhood Trauma and the Mind/Body Connection with Dr. Gabor Maté 2. Episode 212: All About Dissociation - 4 Episode Compilation including interviews with Kathy Steele, LCSW and Dr. Dick Schwartz  1. Episode 111: Relationships and Childhood Emotional Neglect with Dr. Jonice Webb Thank you to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute for sponsoring this week's episode! Therapists, if you feel stuck when working with clients who feel numb and disconnected from their emotions or have difficulty accessing their inner experience, learn a comprehensive approach to conceptualize your clients' concerns. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy uniquely includes the body in therapy as both a source of information and target for intervention…because words are not enough. Go beyond theories and gain practical ways to open a new dimension for effective therapy. Visit Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute online at sensorimotor.org today!  To be in the know about what Laura is cooking up for release in mid-June 2021, go to www.traumachatpod.com and sign up for the email list! You'll receive a free gift for signing up! Other Links: Therapists: if you are interested in learning more about using psychedelics to help clients process trauma, go here to attend a webinar with Psychedelic Somatic Institute and learn about their training (affiliate link). I'll be attending their training DC in July (can't wait)!!!! If you have no idea what I'm talking about go here to listen to my last 3 interviews on using psychedelics in trauma therapy. (affiliate link) Therapists: thinking of adding coaching to your toolkit but not sure where to start? Check out Katie Read's course which guides you through literally everything you need to know and be sure to tell them you heard about it from Laura Reagan on Therapy Chat! (affiliate link) - I'm currently participating in the course and it is so comprehensive! I've learned a ton - she makes it easy! (affiliate link) Podcast produced by Pete Bailey - https://petebailey.net/audio

It’s so hard to feel your feelings—especially when you have all of them all at once, and it’s never a convenient time to process them. For the past year, we’ve all been stewing with anxiety, stress, anger, loneliness, grief, and fear. Ignoring our hard feelings might seem like the easiest way to cope and get relief—but it’s not the only option available to us. Our next guest in our For the Love of Reconnecting Series, psychoanalyst and therapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel, reminds us that when we disconnect from our harder emotions, we disconnect from the life-giving ones too, like joy—and don’t we all need more of that right now?. Hilary’s the author of a fascinating book called It’s Not Always Depression (and psst: she consulted on the psychological development of characters in Mad Men!), and she and Jen talk about the freedom we find when we realize emotions just are, and we don’t have to judge them. In fact, instead of shutting down, Hilary shows us how we can walk ourselves toward self-compassion and healing, which gives us real resilience—not the kind that we *think* we have by stuffing down our feelings.   * * * Thank you to our sponsors! American Giant | Get 100% American-made clothes that do good for local communities! Get 15% off with code FORTHELOVE at american-giant.com  Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com  Jen Hatmaker Merch | Get 20% off the entire site at jenhatmaker.com/shop

Thank you for listening to the second season of Routines & Ruts! To stay tuned for season three, please subscribe or follow the podcast on your preferred listening platform.You can also stay in the loop by signing up to the free Extraordinary Routines newsletter, or follow along at @extraordinary_routines on Instagram.Episodes mentioned:Period preacher' Lucy Peach talked about the connection, creativity and truth in the menstrual cycleAcademic and author of Sand Talk Tyson Yunkaporta shared thoughts on how time, routine and patternsSelf-taught astronemer Greg Quicke on the cycles of the universeWriter Kylie Maslen on  likening living with invisible illness to watching the stormAuthor and psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel on the ebb and flow of emotionsWriter and activist Sarah Wilson spoke about on tilting and modulating over finding balance

 “Ultimately the goal is to communicate our wants, needs, fears and boundaries confidently and effectively.” – Hilary Jacobs HendelPsychotherapist and author of It's Not Always Depression: Working the change triangle to listen to the body, Discover Core Emotions and Reconnect with Your Authentic Self  talks about the importance of emotional education to help us connect to each other and ourselves. In this conversation, we talk about how emotions live in the body, why we avoid feelings and how to judging them, slowing down, the power of feeling, dealing and relating, the different types of shame, guilt and boundaries, moving through small traumas, how we are made up of parts, and how something as simple as learning to take a compliment can help us sit with emotions.Find more resources at www.hilaryjacobshendel.com* * *Support this podcast on Patreon  with a monthly pledge, or join for virtual Momentum Mornings deep work sessions. To stay tuned, please subscribe to the show wherever you hear your podcasts and sign up to the semi-regular Extraordinary Routines newsletter.This podcast is produced and edited by Madeleine Dore. Special thanks to Nelson Dore for the theme music and Ellen Porteus for the cover art.

Emotions! You can't live with'em, but ya can't get rid of'em. Am I right?!Nah, I'm just kidding, of course. Emotions are one of the most important things in our lives. Emotions make us who we are. And they have a big role in our development and everyday lives.But emotions can also be hard on us. The so-called "negative" emotions such as sadness, anger, or fear can wreak havoc in our days and nights, making our lives miserable. And if you're parents, who have to take care not only of your emotions but those of your kids as well.Well, what if there was a tool that could really help you make sense of your emotions and cope with them when they get a little bit too much?In this episode of The Apparently Parent Podcast, I want to tell you about such a tool. It's called The Change Triangle and it was developed by Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, who is a guest in this episode. In the episode, Hilary and I talk about the change triangle and how it can play a role in your lives as parents (and also as just human beings with emotions, kids or no kids).Support the show

Hilary Jacobs Hendel (author of "It's Not Always Depression"; psychotherapist) explains AEDP, how emotions & trauma function, and how shame, depression and anxiety act as adaptive states. We also discuss emotionphobic culture; laughter as a defence; feeling overwhelmed & dissociated; banishing parts of the self; repressing emotions; triggers; emotional neglect; "the body knows how to heal"; creating a sense of safety; and SO much more! Hilary's website: http://hilaryjacobshendel.com/ Read "It's Not Always Depression" (article): https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/its-not-always-depression/ Support on PATREON: www.patreon.com/feelinweird Buy M E R C H: www.kyeplant.bandcamp.com Donate via PAYPAL: www.feelinweird.com Instagram: @feelinweirdpod Email: feelinweird@gmail.com

Depression and anxiety are not what you think they are, according to my guest. Often thought of as presenting problems in their own right, it might make more sense to think of them as clusters of symptoms deriving from underlying problems knowing and working with our core emotions. In her new book, It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (2018, Random House), Hilary Jacobs Hendel debunks common myths about what it means to be ‘depressed' or ‘anxious' and offers a fresh approach for working through these symptoms, using the Change Triangle. In our interview, we discuss how anyone can put the Change Triangle to work in order to relieve suffering and improve emotional awareness. We also address the key role trauma plays in the development of depression and anxiety symptoms, and how such trauma can be healed. This episode is for anyone wishing to gain lasting relief from long-standing emotional difficulties and become more connection with their emotional lives. Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a licensed clinical social worker who received her B.A. in biochemistry from Wesleyan University and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times and professional journals. She also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC's Mad Men. She lives in New York City. Eugenio Duarte, Ph.D. is a psychologist and psychoanalyst practicing in Miami. He treats individuals and couples, with specialties in gender and sexuality, eating and body image problems, and relationship issues. He is a graduate and faculty of William Alanson White Institute in Psychiatry, Psychoanalysis, and Psychology in New York City and former chair of their LGBTQ Study Group; and faculty at Florida Psychoanalytic Institute in Miami. He is also a contributing author to the book Introduction to Contemporary Psychoanalysis: Defining Terms and Building Bridges (2018, Routledge). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/psychology

Depression and anxiety are not what you think they are, according to my guest. Often thought of as presenting problems in their own right, it might make more sense to think of them as clusters of symptoms deriving from underlying problems knowing and working with our core emotions. In her new book, It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (2018, Random House), Hilary Jacobs Hendel debunks common myths about what it means to be ‘depressed’ or ‘anxious’ and offers a fresh approach for working through these symptoms, using the Change Triangle. In our interview, we discuss how anyone can put the Change Triangle to work in order to relieve suffering and improve emotional awareness. We also address the key role trauma plays in the development of depression and anxiety symptoms, and how such trauma can be healed. This episode is for anyone wishing to gain lasting relief from long-standing emotional difficulties and become more connection with their emotional lives. Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a licensed clinical social worker who received her B.A. in biochemistry from Wesleyan University and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times and professional journals. She also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. She lives in New York City. Eugenio Duarte, Ph.D. is a psychologist and psychoanalyst practicing in Miami. He treats individuals and couples, with specialties in gender and sexuality, eating and body image problems, and relationship issues. He is a graduate and faculty of William Alanson White Institute in Psychiatry, Psychoanalysis, and Psychology in New York City and former chair of their LGBTQ Study Group; and faculty at Florida Psychoanalytic Institute in Miami. He is also a contributing author to the book Introduction to Contemporary Psychoanalysis: Defining Terms and Building Bridges (2018, Routledge). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today Hilary Jacobs Hendel joins me to talk about her book It's Not Always Depression, and the Change Triangle. You can learn more about Hilary on her site https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ On the Xtended version ... We continue the conversation with Hilary Jacobs Hendel and move into how the Change Triangle plays out in sex. Enjoy the show! Sponsors ... Better HELP: Online counseling services accessible from anywhere. Save 10% on your first month https://betterhelp.com/smr The post The Change Triangle #481 first appeared on Sexy Marriage Radio.

Today Hilary Jacobs Hendel joins me to talk about her book It's Not Always Depression, and the Change Triangle. You can learn more about Hilary on her site https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ On the Xtended version ... We continue the conversation with Hilary Jacobs Hendel and move into how the Change Triangle plays out in sex. Enjoy the show! Sponsors ... Better HELP: Online counseling services accessible from anywhere. Save 10% on your first month https://betterhelp.com/smr

Today Hilary Jacobs Hendel joins me to talk about her book It's Not Always Depression, and the Change Triangle. You can learn more about Hilary on her site https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ On the Xtended version ... We continue the conversation with Hilary Jacobs Hendel and move into how the Change Triangle plays out in sex. Enjoy the show! Sponsors ... Better HELP: Online counseling services accessible from anywhere. Save 10% on your first month https://betterhelp.com/smr The post The Change Triangle #481 appeared first on Sexy Marriage Radio.

Susan David is a psychologist on faculty at Harvard Medical School. She’s also the co-founder and co-director of The Institute of Coaching at McLean Hospital and is CEO of Evidence-Based Psychology. Along with speaking and consulting, Susan is also the author of Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life.In this episode, Susan David and Eric examine how we can experience, interpret, talk about, and relate to our emotions so that we live a life that is more intentional and deeply rooted in what we value. But wait – there’s more! The episode is not quite over!! We continue the conversation and you can access this exclusive content right in your podcast player feed. Head over to our Patreon page and pledge to donate just $10 a month. It’s that simple and we’ll give you good stuff as a thank you!In This Interview, Susan David and I Discuss Understanding Emotions and…Her book, Emotional Agility: Get Unstuck, Embrace Change and Thrive in Work and LifeThe problem of going on autopilot through our habitual actionsThe problem of going on autopilot through the habits of our internal worldThe benefits of taking time to think about what we value and then examining our habitual patterns to find ways they might be out of alignmentThat we own our emotions, they don’t own usValues as qualities of actionEngaging with choice points in life Actions as votes towards the person we want to beThe mistaken view of emotions as good or badEmotions as signposts for the things we care aboutThat emotions are data, not directivesHow to decipher whether emotions are old habitual patterns or present-day valuable signalsAsking, “Is my believing this emotion opening me up to thrive or shutting me down into something small?”Being compassionate and curious with difficult emotionsHearing yourself when you describe your emotionsUtilizing emotion granularity to more accurately label and better understand emotionsThe skill of noticing our emotions so that they don’t define usDifferentiating emotions from thoughtsEmotions during times of uncertaintyGentle acceptance as a prerequisite to changeSusan David Links:susandavid.comEmotional Agility QuizTed Talk: The Gift and Power of Emotional CourageFacebookTwitterInstagramAthletic Greens: The all in one daily drink to get daily nutritional needs, support better health and peak performance. Visit www.athleticgreens.com/feed to get 20 free daily travel packs with your first purchase. Calm App: The app designed to help you ease stress and get the best sleep of your life through meditations and sleep stories. Join the 85 million people around the world who use Calm to get better sleep. Get 40% off a Calm Premium Subscription (a limited time offer!) by going to www.calm.com/wolf SimpliSafe: Get comprehensive protection for your entire home with security cameras, alarms, sensors as well as fire, water, and carbon monoxide alerts. Visit simplisafe.com/wolf for free shipping and a 60-day money-back guarantee. If you enjoyed this conversation with Susan David on Understanding Emotions, you might also enjoy these other episodes:Susan David (February, 2019)Hilary Jacobs Hendel

So many of us are feeling angry for a myriad of reasons amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. To help us better understand and work with our anger, Eric reached out to several previous guests of the show to ask them if they would be willing to talk with him for a special edition of The One You Feed Podcast about anger. They all generously agreed at a moment’s notice and this episode featuring 4 “mini-interviews” is the result. These are all new conversations with previous guests, Rick Hanson, Hilary Jacobs Hendel, Ruth King, and David Richo.You can find all of the most up to date crisis help & support resources that Eric is making available through The One You Feed by going to www.oneyoufeed.net/helpIn This Episode, We discuss How to Work with Anger and…That anger is a natural and normal responseUtilizing anger rather than letting anger utilize usHow anger can feel good in the moment but it corrodes over timeFinding peace when confronted with the truth of uncertaintyMindfully noticing and naming our angerAnger being triggered by perceived danger and it readies us for a fightThe danger of blocking our angerThat we feel anger as energy that wants to get outUsing fantasy to release the energy of anger When calm, making a list of “state-changers” for yourselfNoticing our coping strategies in the face of things we can’t controlThe critical choice of what to do with the energy of angerBeing informed by our anger instead of reacting out of itChanneling the energy in constructive ways rather than damaging waysGetting curious about what the anger is trying to tell us – rather than focusing on what it’s saying about other peopleGetting fiercely clear about rather than ablaze in the fire of our angerWhen we’re in the anger, we lose touch with how it’s impacting our bodiesSetting the intention of doing no harm That fear is often underneath angerNot acting out of anger because it can be abusiveLinks to Other Episodes:Rick HansonHilary Jacobs HendelRuth KingDavid Richo

In light of the coronavirus, this is going to be the first of many episodes in which I’ll be offering you tools to manage your overwhelming emotions at this time of unprecedented worldwide pandemic and self-quarantining.   It’s only natural for us all to be experiencing some degree of anxiety, fear, sadness, loss, confusion, overwhelm during this time. There is so much unknown, there are so many plans that we’ve had to cancel or postpone, there is loneliness, isolation and of course our emotions will be along for the ride. Having tools to know what to do when these emotions start to take over will be more helpful now than ever. In this episode, I interview psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel who guides us through a framework known as the change triangle to map where our emotions are, and how to notice when our inhibitory emotions (such as anxiety, shame and guilt) or defensive emotions (such as depression, resistance, addiction, denial, etc…) are blocking us from feeling our core emotions (joy, sadness, fear, anger, disgust or excitement). I also add the framework of mindfulness for how we can name our emotions to be able to calm our brain and body.   To learn more about Hilary and her work: Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, takes the complex world of emotions and makes them easy to understand and work with for greater peace, calm and confidence. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. Hilary is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, "It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self" (Random House, 2018). She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. Hilary’s blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: www.hilaryjacobshendel.com   Website: www.hilaryjacobshendel.com Blog: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/hilarys-blog Facebook: Facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel Twitter: @HilaryJHendel Instagram: Hilary Jacobs Hendel The Change Triangle YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxRHckyznerWhoSkPBozgfA Order It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018): https://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Always-Depression-Authentic/dp/0399588140/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1571581643&sr=8-1

In this episode, we lose control in a magical experiment gone awry. We plan our rituals for the astrology of March 2020. And we finally learn to feel our feelings. Support us on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/goodbonespodcast *** Astrology of March 2020 3/9/2020: Full Moon in Virgo 3/19/2020: Sun enters Aries / Spring equinox 3/24/2020: New Moon in Aries *** More Dates of Astrological Note in H1 2020 5/5/2020: North node enters Gemini, south node enters Sagittarius Welcome to the Gemini/Sagittarius eclipse cycle! *** Resources: How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy by Jenny Odell - https://www.amazon.com/How-Do-Nothing-Resisting-Attention/dp/1612197493 s/o to Vanessa’s husband Russ - https://www.instagram.com/russmarshalek/ Human design - https://www.jovianarchive.com/get_your_chart Specific vs. non-specific manifestors - https://www.puregenerators.com/blog/manifestation-in-your-chart-specific-or-general The Highly Sensitive Person - https://hsperson.com It’s Not Always Depression: Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self by Hilary Jacobs Hendel - https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/itsnotalwaysdepressionbook About Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) - https://aedpinstitute.org/about-aedp/ Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender by David Hawkins - https://www.amazon.com/Letting-David-Hawkins-M-D-Ph-D/dp/1401945015 s/o to Mallorie’s therapist - https://yuko-parris.com A Surrendering Ritual Using the Tarot by Vanessa - https://vanessairena.com/a-surrendering-ritual-using-the-tarot/ *** Mallorie: https://www.instagram.com/honoringyourancestors/ Vanessa: https://www.instagram.com/irenavanessa/ Music by Knifesex: https://knifesex.com/ https://www.patreon.com/goodbonespodcast https://anchor.fm/goodbones goodbonespodcast@gmail.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/goodbones/message

The new science of emotions has shown that core emotions provide a path to happiness, physical and psychological well being. Everyone can learn to deal with emotions effectively, channel them for the good of themselves and others, and improve how they feel and live! Rather than looking at psychological symptoms as evidence that someone is "broken," we can now look at symptoms as non-verbal communications that tell us something is wrong and needs to be addressed from a standpoint of compassion and curiosity. In most cases, people have lost touch with their core essential being - their sense of self. Why do we lose touch with our core selves? As children, we all have the job of adapting to our families, our peers, our communities and our culture. We sacrifice self-expression to stay in the good graces of those we need. This is essential for survival. But when we deny, thwart, or exclude too much of our authentic selves to maintain our connection to others, we can fail to thrive. Fearing we won't be loved and accepted as our true selves - flaws and all - we teach ourselves to hide our true feelings. All this survival behavior leads to chronic shame, anxiety and sometimes, depression. Our feelings are a compass for living, informing us about what we want and don't want, about who turns us on, what excites us, what hurts us. Ignoring emotions leads to stress, anxiety and difficulty finding joy and peace - a feeling of loss of self. It doesn't have to be this way! Anyone can live a life in harmony with his or her core feelings. How? By getting to know those emotions. That is what The Change Triangle is all about: it's a map back to the true self, and ultimately, happiness. Join Dr. John for a transformational talk with Hilary Jacobs-Handel, author of It’s Not Always Depression. Hilary Jacobs-Hendel Bio Hilary holds a M.S.W. with Clinical Concentration from Fordham University. She studied at The Institute For Contemporary Psychotherapy and has a private practice in New York City. She was the mental health consultant for the hit TV show Mad Men Hilary has a passion for helping people become their authentic selves. Being "real," or authentic leads to greater connection, compassion, calm, creativity, courage and confidence. One of her main tools is "The Change Triangle -" a map to finding the true self. It helps people become reacquainted with core feelings like anger, sadness, fear, joy, and excitement. And it has helped many people recover a vital, more engaged, more authentic self. Web: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com Instagram: @hilaryjacobshendel Book: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=it%27s+not+always+depression Check us out on Google Play and give us a Like and Subscribe! https://play.google.com/music/listen#/ps/Imo4l6pgrbmeklxvec6pgwzxnz4 If you like what you've heard, support us by subscribing, leaving reviews on Apple podcasts. Every review helps to get the message out! Please share the podcast with friends and colleagues. Follow Dr. John Schinnerer on | Instagram | Instagram.com/@TheEvolvedCaveman | Facebook | Facebook.com/Anger.Management.Expert | Twitter | Twitter.com/@JohnSchin | LinkedIn | Linkedin.com/in/DrJohnSchinnerer Or join the email list by visiting: GuideToSelf.com Please visit our YouTube channel and remember to Like & Subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/user/jschinnerer Editing/Mixing/Mastering by: Brian Donat of B/Line Studios www.BLineStudios.com Music by: Zak Gay http://otonamimusic.com/

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, takes the complex world of emotions and makes them easy to understand and work with for greater peace, calm and confidence. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. Hilary is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, "It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self" (Random House, 2018). She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC's Mad Men. Hilary's blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com Facebook: Facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel Twitter: @HilaryJHendel Instagram: Hilary Jacobs Hendel The Change Triangle on YouTube Order It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018):  --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thebarbershopgroup/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thebarbershopgroup/support

Different parts of our brain are responsible for how we respond to anxious situations. Understanding how they function can help us better self-regulate. Show Notes: The Concept of the "Triune Brain" by Andreas Komninos THE EVOLUTIONARY LAYERS OF THE HUMAN BRAIN from mcgill.ca Amygdala hijack from Wikipedia Getting to Know Your Three Brains (five part series) by Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/jack-shitama/message

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, is an emotion educator, as well as a psychoanalyst and experiential trauma therapist in private practice. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. Hilary is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, “It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self” (Random House, 2018). She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC's Mad Men. Hilary's blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com

In this episode, Kristen interviews Hillary Jacobs Hendel about using our emotions as a direct pathway to healing psychological suffering. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com Subscribe and Get a free 5-day journal at www.kristendboice.com to begin closing the chapter on what doesn’t serve you and open the the door to the real you. This information is being provided to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is being provided to you to educate you about ideas on stress management and as a self-help tool for your own use. It is not psychotherapy/counseling in any form. This information is to be used at your own risk based on your own judgment.  For my full Disclaimer please to to www.kristendboice.com. For counseling services near Indianapolis, IN, visit www.pathwaystohealingcounseling.com. Pathways to Healing Counseling's vision is to provide warm, caring, compassionate and life-changing counseling services and educational programs to individuals, couples and families in order to create learning, healing and growth.

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, takes the complex world of emotions and makes them easy to understand and work with for greater peace, calm and confidence. She is the developer of the Change Triangle tool for emotional health. Hilary is also the author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, "It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self" (Random House, 2018). She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hilary also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. Hilary’s blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com Book Club Launching Nov. 4th - Sign Up HERE.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, I will work to reframe the 8, 9, and 10 of swords cards. Although the imagery on these cards is dark and ominous, I view them as invitations to feel and heal. To explain this, I will draw on concepts from Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) and the book 'It's Not Always Depression' by Hilary Jacobs Hendel to distinguish between inhibitory emotions and core emotions. I will then connect these concepts to the imagery in the 8-10 of swords cards. We will then turn to the 8-10 of cups cards to define the healing invitation of these challenging swords cards. Enjoy! Hilary Jacobs Hendel (author of 'It's Not Always Depression'):https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/ Directory of AEDP therapists: https://aedpinstitute.org/find-an-aedp-institute-therapist/search/ Support RLR: www.patreon.com/rootlockradio www.rootlocktarot.com/learn-tarot Music provided by: Shenandoah Davis www.shenandoahdavis.com Jeré www.soundcloud.com/jerejerejere I hope you find the links between tarot and psychotherapy concepts useful. However, Root Lock Radio is not a substitute for therapy with a licensed mental health professional.

Every single human has surely suffered with feeling invalidated for their emotions. Author of ’It’s Not Always Depression’ and psychotherapist, Hilary Jacobs Hendel joined us to explore her ground-breaking work on emotions. Many of us have never really learned the true anatomy of our emotions. As Hilary explains, we can build our lives around avoiding the true feeling of our emotions. For many of us our early experiences with emotions involved us being told to ‘get over it’ in one way or another. Fully embracing emotions like anger and hurt means going against our conditioning, and some of these emotions seem downright scary. Could we end up lashing out in rage? Or could embracing our pain actually open the pathway toward calm, composure and compassion? Hilary walks us through the model she uses that allows people to experience - often for the first time in their lives - how to fully feel a feeling, and the freedom that this experiences offers us. 1.30 mins - Introduction to the Break up Recovery course. 4 mins - Introduction to Hilary Jacobs Hendel. 6 mins - Emotions are involuntary physical responses, we cannot just ‘get over them’. 9 mins - What are positive emotions - expansive experiences, what does it feel like to allow them to arise? 14 mins - “It runs in the family” the narrative of inherited patterns. 18 mins - What is anxiety and how does it exist within the body? 22 mins - Understanding the change triangle and the impact of shame. 29 mins - Experiencing the full emotional wave, the emotional experience of anger. 39 mins - Moving though childhood trauma. 47 mins - How do we know if we have suppressed core emotions? 54 mins - I feel therefore I am. 1hr 3mins - Working through other peoples emotions. 1hr 18mins - Free resources from Hilary Jacobs Hendel. Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, takes the complex world of emotions and makes them easy to understand for all. She is author of the award-winning self-help book on emotions called, It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018). She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hendel also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. Hilary’s blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and emotional health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.com Find out more about the Change Triangle Here It's Not Always Depression by Hilary Jacobs Hendel

Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a licensed social worker, author of the critically acclaimed and two-time award-winning book, It’s Not Always Depression, she is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor, has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, and Oprah, and also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. It is true that we really think with our whole bodies, which is why it is important to equip yourself with the skills and knowledge necessary to calm and regulate your nervous system, resist from acting on impulses and minimize your shame. Hilary has created The Change Triangle framework to help others understand the shift between our core emotions and defense mechanisms and learn how to master an emotion for good. By understanding how The Change Triangle works to validate a feeling, and figuring out how to channel that emotion into something helpful, you can get to the state of the open-hearted self.  Our body is wired with emotions from the get-go, and it is only by tuning into the sensations within yourself that you can understand your impulses, embrace your core emotions and channel them through emotionally mature realms of possibility. Are you ready to take control of your emotions and embrace the open-hearted self? Share what steps you are taking with us in the comments on the episode page.    In This Episode Understanding in a nutshell what it means to experience an emotion  Self-help tools to be less frightened and overwhelmed by your emotions How to turn your attention into the body to notice a physical sensation  Embracing the open-hearted self and ways to demystify your emotions  Mindfulness practices to stop acting on your impulse and create space   Quotes “What we now have is too much shame, that is constricting us too much and not allowing our true authentic selves and our emotions to flow. And that's where the problem happens.” (23:24) “Part of the ways that I think we can all grow is to find our pockets of shame… to kind of know your vulnerability there and decide whether you want to work on it and kind of share it and talk about it so that it becomes less toxic and less constricting.” (24:46) “If children were learning this and young adults, and we were sort of minimizing the trauma, minimizing anxiety, minimizing guilt and shame, we are all going to feel much calmer and confident and able to meet the challenges of life.” (33:24) “With a little bit of education, we can reverse the trajectory of burying emotions, to living more authentically knowing what we are feeling and how to communicate that.” (46:52)   Links Hilary Jacobs Hendel Website It's Not Always Depression by Hilary Jacobs Hendel Why Did I Do That? Blog Post   Find the full show notes for this episode here Keep up with all things Love Is Medicine Follow Razi on Facebook |Instagram

Beneath anxiety, depression, guilt, and shame, are core emotions that are hardwired into our circuitry. When you’re able to tap into the core emotions - and move through them - you’ll feel a new sense of freedom and empowerment - with the ability to handle anything that life sends your way. Our guest today is Hilary Jacobs Hendel. She’s a psychotherapist and the author of the new book, "It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self,” which will definitely be a game changer for you. Today she has some practical tips for you on how to identify and work through these core emotions, so that you don't get stuck in the secondary emotions that can get in your way. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Want to experience a Luxury Suite or VIP Box at an amazing concert or sporting event? Check out Suitehop.com/DATENIGHT to score sweet deals on a special night for you and your partner. Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you. Resources: Visit Hilary Jacobs Hendel’s website to learn more about her work. Pick up your copy of Hilary Jacobs Hendel’s book, It's Not Always Depression: Working The Change Triangle To Listen To The Body Discover Core Emotions And Connect To Your Authentic Self. FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE) Visit www.neilsattin.com/triangle to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Hilary Jacobs Hendel. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host Neil Sattin. It's been my mission of course to give you the best tools that I can find to help you have an amazing thriving relationship. And some of those tools are relational and how you interact with other people, and some of those tools are all about the inner work and how we can come to understand ourselves better and experience life more fully, shine more brightly and to get past the obstacles that stand in our way. And today, I hope to synthesize both of those things for you. Though, we're gonna start with the inner work as we unearth how to get to our core emotional experience and just why that is so important. And along the way you're gonna learn how to identify when you're in a core emotional experience and when you are not and learn exactly how to handle that situation. We are diving more deeply also into the work known as AEDP: accelerated experiential dynamic psychotherapy. Which is a mouthful but if you listened to Episode 176 with Diana Fosha, or episode 189 with David Mars then you're getting a sense for how this way of working with people can be so profound in its ability to create positive change. Neil Sattin: Today's guest has taken the model even further in showing us how we can apply it for ourselves. So, it's great when you're doing it in, in therapy it's great when you're doing it in couples therapy. And this is going to show you how to do it on your own so that you can experience this kind of change in your daily life, using what's known as "the change triangle.". Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Our guest today is Hilary Jacobs Handel and her recent book: "It's Not Always Depression: Working The Change Triangle To Listen To The Body Discover Core Emotions And Connect To Your Authentic Self," is, I think, a game changer for you in terms of deepening your experience and being able to bring that fully into your relationship with your spouse, your partner, and your relationships with others in general. As usual we will have a detailed transcript of today's episode. You can get that if you visit Neil-Sattin-dot-com-slash-triangle, because we're talking about the change triangle, or as always you can text the word passion to the number 3-3-4-4-4 and follow the instructions. So let us dive in to the change triangle and discover how to get even more in touch with who we are at our core and how to bring that into the world. Hilary Jacobs Hendall, thank you so much for being here with us today on Relationship Alive. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Thank you Neil. I am delighted to be here talking about my favorite subjects, of emotions and relationships. Neil Sattin: Perfect. Well we're on the same page then, definitely. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes we are. Neil Sattin: And I do want to mention before we get too deep in, that if you are a visual person and need a visual representation of the triangle that we're talking about then that's also available both on Hilary's Web site, which will announce in a little bit, and also at Neil-Sattin-dot-com-slash-triangle, where we have the transcripts. You'll be able to to see it in front of you if that's required. But we'll do our best to to make it, make it real for you as we're talking about it. Neil Sattin: So Hilary, why, why is it so important to get in touch with our core emotions and and how do we distinguish core emotions from just that emotional wash that can come, come at us or come over us throughout our day? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Well, it's, there's many reasons why it's important to get, not only get it, well understand the different types of emotions and to get in touch with emotions and to be able to discern what you're what you're feeling and what you're experiencing. Because most of us live up in our heads. And thoughts are fantastic and we need them. And I love my thoughts but it's half the picture of knowing who you are and what you need and what's good for you and what's bad for you. And core emotions are these biologically wired survival programs that really tell us, at the core, so much about what we who we are and what we need that if we're not listening to them and our society really teaches us to avoid them and block them, which I think is responsible for the epidemic we're seeing in depression and anxiety and so many mental health issues, that, and we don't learn anything about emotions, that, that without knowing about emotions and understanding how they work, we're really at a huge disadvantage to thrive in life. Neil Sattin: Right, when you're able to identify the emotional experience that you're having, it gives you clues as to how you need to best respond to the world in the moment with whatever is going on in your life. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly and I think what's become more and more important for me, just to say from the beginning to the people listening out there, is that this is not about wearing emotions on our sleeve. This is not about looking for an excuse to act out or behave badly, to rage or to cry, experiencing emotions is a wholly internal process it has nothing to do with what we actually then show to others, or, or enact. It may, but I'm, we're always trying to think about what is constructive for us, constructive for the person we are with. It's not about an excuse to behave badly and I think we live in an emotion phobic culture partly because people don't understand that, they think "Oh my gosh, you know, if we're all into our emotions it's just gonna be you know not good. It's just, it's..." I'm only thinking of curse words now that would come out and explain like a shit show, but I'm just you know that type of a thing. And this is a very thoughtful process that I am talking about that only helps us. There, there is no downside to getting in touch with emotions the way that I am thinking about it and the way that I try to educate others. Neil Sattin: Right, what you just said is such an important distinction that we're talking about a constructive way to meet your emotions and to metabolize them into something that's beneficial not just for you but for the other people in your orbit or for life in, in general. And you know we had Harriet Lerner on the show to talk about her seminal work, "The Dance of Anger," and turning anger into, into a constructive emotional phenomenon. And I love how in your book it's not always depression you talk about each of these core emotions and we're talking about emotions like sadness and fear and anger and disgust, and we're also talking about emotions like joy or excitement or sexual excitement. Lust I think is the way that Jaak Panskepp talks about it. And we're talking about all of those core programs that you just mentioned and looking at how they lead to our common good. The common benefit and also ways to know when, when something's coming at us that really isn't healthy and and how to respond effectively to that. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly right. In particular with using anger to set limits and boundaries and to assert ourselves without being aggressive. Neil Sattin: Right. Right which you're able to do when you've figured out "Wow I'm, I'm really angry. And here's why I'm angry right now." And so it becomes less about telling someone that you're angry and more about setting an effective limit with them. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes, and I would add an additional piece: it's, it's also working with that anger internally to to discharge some of that energy that causes us to, to act too quickly, and act, and say mean things or do hurtful things, so that there's techniques to work with the energy that, that most emotions have and that grip us into impulses right and these impulses have to be thought through very, very up, down and sideways, before we decide to say something or do something that we really want to be thoughtful about ourselves and the action that wants to come out. Neil Sattin: Right. Yeah. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: It's hard work too,  this is a lifelong process. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So important to name that and, and for you, listening, we're going, we're gonna get to some of these techniques of how to really integrate and and process your emotional experience in the way that Hilary was just naming. And I want to say too that well, as you know I read a lot of books for this show and I love the ones that just right out of the gate, I'm like, "This book is gonna make a difference in my life." And I definitely felt that reading your book it's so practical and in some ways the title is misleading because I think people see it and they think "Oh this is a book about depression. I'm not sure that impacts me." And so I want to encourage everyone listening that this is really a book about what we're talking about: how do you encounter your own emotional experience and chew it up in a way that's beneficial for you and then bring that into how you how you interact with the world around you. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah exactly. And I think you're right about the title. I guess if the title was exactly what it should be, it would say "This is a basic emotion education that you should have received in high school," and hopefully one day people will. But it's something that every, everybody knows that the title came from the article that I wrote for The New York Times back in 2015 and because the article went viral and so many people responded to it, that Random House said let's just name the book that. And you know it's not always depression what is it? It's really life, and how surviving our childhoods and all the adversity that life entails affects us emotionally and what happens when you block those emotions and what happens when you embrace those emotions and learn to work with them. And it's it's it's a fork in the road. And it matters. Neil Sattin: Yes. Yeah. So let's start with talking about "the change triangle," because I think identifying the three different corners of the triangle will be really helpful for everyone in understanding what we're talking about because why is it a triangle, why isn't it just like well you've got to have your core emotional experience, and there, there's more to it. And this was where your book was so eye opening for me in many ways, was getting to see oh these kinds of things that I experience< they're happening because I'm, I, I'm trying to I'm trying to protect myself from a core emotional experience as an example. So, I think as we as we dive in this is going to make a lot more sense for everyone listening. So, where's a good place to start, Hilary? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: I think just a quickly, describe it and and what I, I'll try to bring it to life a little bit. Neil Sattin: Great. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: So for everybody listening you want to imagine an upside down triangle superimposed on your body. The point of the triangle is in your core, you know, somewhere between your stomach and, and your, under your ribs. And that's because, and that's, at the bottom of the triangle is where core emotions are and they're in the body and that's why I'm asking you to imagine them in your core. And they're, the core emotions to say them again are: fear, anger, sadness, disgust, joy, excitement, and sexual excitement. And each of those have their own unique programs and they're very simple in a way, you know, when something, when somebody hurts us... Well let's just take anger because it's something that we all struggle with in our culture. And there's so many myths about anger, but anger is there basically to protect us. Anger and fear. And when when somebody attacks us. And I always think about how these were designed to be sort of, hundreds of thousands of years ago, if somebody wanted to kill you, and, and had a threatening pose or gesture you would evoke anger in the middle of the brain, like where all core emotions are evoked, and then it sends out a myriad of responses to all organs of the body to ready the body for an action and that action is meant to be adaptive for survival. So anger will make us kind of want to make a fist and put up our dukes and get ready to attack. And it come, it's visceral. We all know that experience of when someone we care about insults us or doesn't do something that we really needed to and there's energy in the body and our, and we get tension in the body and we really feel like we want to lash out. So it's a full body experience and each of the core emotions have their own program that has an, uh, an uh, group of physical sensations that we can learn to recognize and name, and each of the core emotions has an impulse to action that we can learn to recognize, and, and explain and name, and, and an impulse to action, that we are, that it's pulling for us to do. And it's that whole experience that we want to get really good at recognizing and that is really just a part of knowing ourselves. The, the emotions react similarly in everybody. But there is nuance in everyone. So the way that I experience anger will be differently than the way you experience anger, Neil. And that's the same for all the core emotions. Neil Sattin: Great. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: So that's the bottom of the triangle. Does that make sense? Neil Sattin: Perfect. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: OK. Now there's uh, there's three corners of the triangle, which I'm going to explain. But there is a fourth point here and I'm just going to share it real quickly now because when we have a core emotion, we're at a fork in the road and there's base likely two ways it can go. We can bury that emotion and push it away and block it and then we're going to be moving to the top of the triangle. Or, we can validate it, name it, and work with the experience that it's evoking, in which case we get to this place that I put on the bottom of the triangle. That's called the "open hearted state of the authentic self." And what that is basically, a more practical way of saying, is it's a regulated state of mind and body and that when we are with our core emotions, and we let them process through, and we are allowed to experience them, and again nothing has actually happened yet in the outside world it's wholly internal, it's a way that comes the body back down. Because core emotions come up they kind of cause an arousal of the nervous system like a wave. You ride the wave and then they come down. And if we don't block them the energy kind of naturally will dissipate over time, and in ways and techniques that we can help with that, and then we come back to this kind of calm state, where our mind and body feel relaxed, and in that state good things happened, and there's a bunch of c-words that I borrowed from Richard Schwartz with his permission, where when we stay in this kind of calm regulated state, we are more curious, we feel more connected, we have a greater capacity for compassion for ourselves and other people, we tend to feel more confident because we can deal with our own emotions and we feel more courageous in life and we have more clarity of thought. So you obsess less. So this is where we all want to spend more time. Neil Sattin: Definitely. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: And it's not that it's the goal to spend all our time there, right? That's impossible because life happens but that's where we want to spend more and more time. And so working this change triangle to get back to core emotions and to go through them down to this calm state is the whole point of this. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I think it's important to mention that too, that we're describing this, this static image but it implies a process that you can go through in order to get to the openhearted state of self energy that that Hilary's just described. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Right, because we're moving around this triangle all day every day many times and it's what we do that matters and then we're also kind of moving around in this triangle in life on a macro level spending less time in our defensive states and more time in the openhearted state. So. So that's sort of a sort of a micro and a global way to look at it. Neil Sattin: Great. So then when you have that core when you're when some core emotional response comes up, you said you're at a fork in the road and you can head, you can ride the wave and and get to that core self state or... Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Or like most of us do, because that's what we're taught to do in our society, is we tend to block them. And so the top of the triangle if we move to the top right that corner is labeled inhibitory emotions and the inhibitory emotions which everyone will recognize are anxiety, guilt, and shame. And again what they have in common is that they all push down, and block, and bury core emotional experience, in purpose for the purpose of pretty much getting along in our society. There are more social emotions, so that if the core emotions are the selfish emotions what's good for me the inhibitory emotions are, "How do I curb my own impulses and desires, so that I stay in the good graces, good graces of initially my mother and then my father and my siblings, my family, then my peer groups, my uh, by then you know as you broaden into society, my religious groups, my, oh, my collegial groups..." That we it's so important for human survival to get along. So in a way there's a fundamental conflict here. So, so the inhibitory emotions when we it's the way that we block our core emotions. And so what we end up doing is noticing that we have anxiety, for example, and if we have anxiety we know that we're on the top right hand corner of the triangle. But what that means practically, is that we also know that we are inhibiting some core emotional experience that if we can get to and name, and, and, and use, we will likely feel less anxious. Feel much better and I can give an example of this, but, then the way we do this is with muscular contraction, all sorts of maneuvers that anxiety, shame, and guilt block these core emotions and for different purposes. And some of us will feel more shame, some more anxiety. You know, we have to mix in genetics and disposition here, and then the environment for why we end up feeling ashamed or guilty or anxious. Neil Sattin: Right and something that feels important to name right here is the way that you can feel those inhibitory emotions from a core positive emotional experience as much as a core negative. And I'm kind of putting those words in quotes because I think what we're getting at here is that they all have the capacity to be positive but one might not think like, "Oh you know, I'm, I'm experiencing shame because I'm feeling too much joy right now," or "I'm too excited. And so my anxiety is coming in to to block that, or my guilt about being excited about this thing.". Hilary Jacobs Hendel: That is so crucial and the more that I do this work in psychotherapy and just observe the people that I'm with, the more I believe that it's the larger emotions. I wouldn't even say so... I think you're right, that people block joy and excitement and pride in the self and anything that makes us feel physically bigger. It's kind of fascinating you can almost reduce all below the neck deep experience into emotions that have energy that makes us feel larger, which is dangerous when we take up more space and we feel bigger, we tend to experience some inhibition either anxiety, guilt or shame. And so people tend to stay small and in a way people go negative... I'm not so sure anymore, which came firrt, err, do people kind of move into negative thoughts to keep them small? Because there's some core fear? Or is it that it's a it's a way not to feel big? I dunno if it gets sort of too complicated. But you can start to think of everything as almost like amoebas like am getting bigger or I'm getting smaller? And to begin to understand one's experience as, "Is this an expansive emotion now, that I'm feeling, like, joy and pride, and anger?" In which case it's going to make me feel vulnerable and then I'm going to come down on myself with some anxiety or shame or guilt. So that's just getting to what you were saying about people struggle with feeling good. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah. So it could go either way. And, and what I love is this sense of, "Oh. When I notice shame or anxiety or guilt that the problem isn't the shame or the anxiety or guilt." That's, the I don't want to spend all my time there, because they're indicating that there's a deeper core experience that's happening and that's where the the gold is. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. That's where the gold is. Now. I think it's also important to mention that that, we're talking about kind of detrimental levels of anxiety, shame and guilt here, that the shame has a purpose too. Guilt has a purpose. Like when we do something that hurts somebody else it's good that we feel guilty. That means that we're not a sociopath and so we want to listen to the shame. Listen to the guilt. Listen to the anxiety. And we also know that we have to look for our core emotions. So, it's, it's both because the inhibitory emotions are going to bring us to the relationship piece. But we also need to know what we're feeling so that we can express ourselves to, to yourself and to others. Neil Sattin: Yeah and I will say just as a side note your, your chapter on dealing with anxiety shame and guilt. I think it's also super helpful along with creating self compassion but for understanding the other people in your life and what might be motivating certain behaviors that you experience from them. That was, in many respects, worth the price of admission for the book because that's part of what's going on is not only understanding yourself but being able to see these things happening in other people and to, and to recognize how it might be impacting them as well. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. So we can understand ourselves and others and I've had so many people read the book and tell me that they thought it should be in the Parenting section of the bookstore because we also want to understand our children's emotions so we don't unwittingly cause too much shame and guilt and anxiety when it can be avoided just by the education and emotions. Neil Sattin: Yeah yeah they should have a "self parenting" section in the bookstore. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. Self parenting, and parenting though, there's so much you know parents mean well, I made so many mistakes. If I had had this at this book in my 20s that would have spared me and my children a lot of heartache and I know most people feel that way. Most people have intent to do good. And if you don't have proper information, and you're just basing things on what you sort of intuition and how you were raised and what society says then it's easy to make mistakes anyway, easy to make mistakes, and we're not free that you know there's no way not to screw up your children on some level but you just want to know what's going on in the emotion department. It's really, really helpful. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So we've covered the bottom corner of the triangle the core emotions, and the top right which is these inhibitory emotions that are are meant to block or suppress the core emotions. Neil Sattin: What's up with the with the other corners triangle. : So and again if we go back to that this is superimposed on the body. The point is of course in core emotions as in is in the gut area and then we're coming up. So anxiety and defenses are kind of sitting above the shoulders, is how I imagine them because they're out of, they kind of take us out of our body, they take us up into our head. And so because emotions, core emotions feel so at best they feel weird and new if you don't know what they are, and, and at worst they feel awful emotions and core emotions, and inhibitory emotions when they come in, in large doses and they come, many at one time and they're all mixed together... It's a horrible experience and a horrible feeling. And so we then tend to want to avoid the whole enchilada and we move into defenses and that's the topped, top left corner of the triangle. And defenses are basically anything we do to avoid feeling something that we don't want to feel and I don't even mean it in a pejorative sense I always say that that defenses, as I learned in AEDP training, which was so helpful, are really these brilliant creative maneuvers that humans can do to spare themselves pain as opposed to in my psychoanalytic training... I don't want to sell psychoanalysis down the river because I got a lot out of my studies there, but there was always this negative sense of bad, that you're doing something bad, and you're resisting and that defenses are bad and I think that defenses really need to be appreciated for one when they hold up. They get us through life. And two, when they don't hold up and we break through and start to have symptoms of depression or anxiety or many other things that we needed them at one time those defenses and now they're not working so well and then we need to embrace other ways of being that bring us peace and calm. Neil Sattin: So defenses are like toward the, the last stop on the on the train. They're, they're, they're meant to help you not feel anything. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. Exactly. Or to for, to exchange one emotion for for something else like defenses... Emotions can be used as defenses. For example, I would, you know, my whole younger life, if I felt scared or vulnerable I sort of had a more of an irritable, crusty armor and I would get angry and I would try to curtail it a lot because I had a really sweet, gentle mom and a really sweet, gentle sister and I was kind of the, the, the, the tougher one in the family. So I was always working hard to be quote sweet like like my mom. But I felt it. I felt it and I really didn't understand. I would beat myself up for you know, Why, why do I feel angry?" And it was really a big defense against fear. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: I had no idea I had no idea even I was the one that I was anxious when I was younger because it was just kind of covered by this kind of this kind of tough armor. Neil Sattin: Right. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Or how many people do we know that might be feeling fear but instead go to like humor or lightheartedness, instead of instead of being able to go to that place. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. And so there are so many ways we can use defenses can be emotions. They can we can use behaviors as defenses. Self-destructive behaviors like, like cutting just behaviors like joking, making, being sarcastic, eye rolls, shrugs this is like body language defenses, not being able to make eye contact. There is, there is a myriad of defenses and I list a ton of them in the book and on my website. And you can try to recognize your own defenses which is probably one of the hardest things to do. It's much easier to see other people than ourselves and so you could probably much more easily recognize the defenses in the people in your family. But it's good to begin to recognize our own defenses so that we can loosen them up a little bit and know what the feelings are underneath them and then it kind of, gives us more resilience, more choices for how to be. Neil Sattin: Yeah if we wanted perspective from an outsider that we more or less trusted about our defenses what would you say is a is a safe way to ask for that from another person? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: That's such a wonderful question. I think it's not only the safe way to ask for it, but I think you're saying to make sure that person is safe is a safe person to be vulnerable with. Yeah, because what we really want to spare ourselves, as much as possible, is the excruciating experience of being shamed or humiliated. So, I think I would say and I do say this to my to my husband and my children, even friends sometimes: "Please let me know if I do something that..." I mean it's not so much as a defense, I would say, "Please let me know if I do something that you don't like or that hurts your feelings or that doesn't feel right." And then I guess if I was asking it I think I would just leave it at that. I'm concerned for the people out there listening who might say that to somebody they care about who doesn't have a lot of therapy background or understand emotions that might not be so gentle. So, I think you could always say: "But, be please be gentle with me." You know and I believe in using humor and lightheartedness in relationships a lot, but you know be be gentle. But I do want to know.... Yes. Neil Sattin: Yeah. No, I think that's great to name that desire for for gentleness or just to point out like, it's, "It's kind of tender or vulnerable for me to even be asking you this but I know that you may see, something that I don't see." Yeah. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: That's it's such an interesting question Neil. No one's ever asked me that and I think it's because most people get feedback from their family, when they're, when they're acting in ways that are are not pleasurable and they they might not all be defensive maneuvers some may be just like self care. Like I don't want to do this. Setting a limit or a boundary and then somebody reacts badly to that. But some of it would be defensive. So again, it's sort of interesting to think about. Neil Sattin: Right and I think if you're not inviting someone into that conversation, then the feedback that you're getting is most likely not coming at you either at a moment where you're truly receptive to it, or in a manner that's that's constructive.   Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Mhmm. Exactly. Constructive being the operative word. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So we we found our way up to the top. And let's talk about what the process would look like if I noticed, "Oh I'm about to do that defensive thing that I always do." So maybe for someone like I'll just kind of out myself here, I might go to a political blog or to Facebook or something like that. I'm doing that, it doesn't serve any real constructive purpose in my life. So, even though, you know, you could argue about being informed or whatever but when I notice that I'm doing that, what would be the steps that I would want to take to help bring me into identifying whether or not there was a core emotional experience at work? And I think, especially because we as adults... Like these patterns are pretty well developed for us. So, so it may be a bit of a journey to find your way down into into your core, but what's, what's the map look like? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. Yeah but I think very possible, and, and I like your example, which I'm going to address. And you know, we could also use the example of reaching for a snack when you're not hungry or reaching for a drink right after work. Right? These are all these kind of they're just sort of automatic defensive behaviors and they don't serve us. So what I do is, you know, for all these examples is the first thing we have to be able to do is notice, right? If we don't notice what we're doing then we can't work the change triangle at all. And the way you get good at noticing is really by slowing down. We can't really notice much about how we're feeling if we're moving fast, it just tends to obscure or we just stay up in our head and our thoughts are churning and it kind of numbs us out below the neck. So, I when I'm teaching new people this you know you can just set aside, you can write in your, in your inner, in your, in your calendar, in your phone, you know, just set aside three times a day and remember to kind of check in and observe what you're doing. Meditation, obviously, is a great practice for this. So, let's say you actually notice that you're about to go check, what did you say Facebook or the political blogs? Neil Sattin: Right side or more or more likely I'd, I'd be you know five or 10 minutes in, and I'd be like, "Wait a minute here I am. You know here I am on Facebook again.". Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Good. Good. OK. So before, or during... Neil Sattin: Just being, just being honest. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah of course. You know, join the rest of humanity. That's great. So what you would do is stop what you're doing. And you would, kind of feel your feet on the ground like you instructed me to do before this, and, before we started, and maybe take a few deep breaths to kind of set the stage for noticing. And then I personally especially in the beginning would ask myself I would kind of scan my body head to toe, and toe to head, and just kind of see what I can notice about my physical state. Am I tense? Am I anxious? I might even go through all of the emotions and ask myself, "OK Hilary,or Neil, you know, do you notice any anxiety now check? Do you notice any shame? No, not right now. Do you notice any guilt? No. OK, so we've got some anxiety. What else? Let's see if we can get below that anxiety and see what else we might be feeling". And you may want to bring in the context of what's going on in your life also and what might be affecting you. So let's say, uh, this is the day my, my, my kid goes off to kindergarten. What else is happening today? I have work stress, what not. So then I might ask myself, "Is any of these things in life causing me fear? Check." And then we want to go through all the core emotions, do I feel angry? No. Do I feel sad? Check. And you want to name all the emotions that you possibly can but kind of holding them all together like, as I tell my patients, try to hold all the emotions but imagining them with lots of air and space between each one, because we have to, we have to attend to each emotion separately. Another way that I say it, is don't say "I feel afraid but I also feel sadness." I want to change the "but" to an "and." "I feel sad, and I feel afraid, and I feel excited, and I feel happy." And once we get a lot of emotions going at the same time it's a lot of energy. We can automatically push those down because we don't know we can handle it all. Feel some anxiety and then boom. Reaching for a political blog. So, that would be the idea to try to start to name the emotions and then just by doing that just by naming emotions and taking that time to slow down and do that, you might feel much, much more relaxed and in fact it gives you space to think, "OK do I want to continue with the blog? Because this is a good distraction that I need now." Because defenses aren't bad by definition it's only if they're hurting us or if we rely on them all the time. So you may continue to read or you may decide, "You know what. I'm going to go exercise instead or I'm going to go tell my partner how I'm feeling about everything going on." That type of thing, and that's the last step is to think through, what's the best thing for me right now? If I don't feel better and I'm trying to change my state what are some things that, that helped me feel better where I can take better care of myself. Or you may want to work with one of these emotions using some of the techniques that I, that I outline in the book. Staying with them in the body or imagining using fantasy to discharge some of the energy. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I definitely want to talk about fantasy, but before we go there, I, I just want to name that for me even though I knew this to be true it was really a revelation to stop and think about what that's like, that we can be experiencing fear and disgust and joy and sexual excitement that we could be feeling all of those things at the same time. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. Neil Sattin: Each one calling out for potentially a completely different kind of response. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. Neil Sattin: So, no wonder we get all bound up with anxiety or overwhelm or feel any any of those things that just kind of paralyze us in a moment. Or if we, if we name one and we just kind of go with the first thing, "Oh, I'm feeling sad right now," and then you neglect the others, how you could feel incomplete in terms of actually processing the experience that you're having. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. Exactly and that's why it's so important to keep sort of searching when you notice one particular emotion to just keep looking around. What else is there? And to, it really helps to kind of run through that checklist. I still do that I've been practicing this a long time and I, I run through the different emotions and once you name them and search for them you know you might even find them. I say to my patients, "Even there's you know just check for like a little molecule of joy there, or a little molecule of sadness, and then if you find it you know, Oh maybe I need to actually make space for this particular emotion I spend so much time, you know, really orienting myself towards my anger, that I'm missing out on what the sadness or the fears telling me.". Neil Sattin: Yeah. I was I was searching for a good acronym while, while I was reading the book, I was like there must be a good one for those core emotions to like help people just kind of do the, do the checklist. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. Did you find one? Because I looked hard also. Neil Sattin: Not yet but I'll let you know if I can. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. Yeah. Neil Sattin: And there's not a good one for all those C's when you're when you're... But I do like how you also offer that as an example of looking for you know am I feeling calm, right now? Am I feeling clear? Am I feeling compassionate? To be able to go through that list to find the nuances of your experience right now and to highlight, "Okay here are ways that I am feeling courageous even though at the same time I'm getting all this, this tremulous fear going through my body. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes, exactly. And I think even sometimes you can bypass the whole thing and just really try to shift into those states if you don't like what you're feeling right now and it's a particularly a great idea when you're about to have a conversation with somebody important to you, to before you do try to, try to just see if you can shift into a calmer, certainly more curious standpoint, more state, where you can try to take a couple of deep breaths and access some curiosity, so we don't make assumptions about another person's motives because they're often incorrect you know we make up our own stories and then we believe them without checking them out. And to try to lean into connection, so that, let's say you know again your partner really pisses you off. It's important, and the brain doesn't naturally do this, you have to push, put energy behind this idea of remembering the good things somebody has done to kind of take the steam out of the uh... You know, we can rev ourselves up with anger and start to think it's like chaining, you then, everything that someone ever did to hurt you comes back with a vengeance. Unless we really pull the other way and say, "OK, what is why do I love this person." Or if I can't remember that I loved him at one point, you know what is it that I used to love about this person and try to conjure those that part of it as well. It takes energy. It's not easy because we're really pulled to tough places and we have to use mental energy to pull ourselves back and it doesn't feel good at first, always. Neil Sattin: Yeah yeah. Wow so many different directions that I'm going in at the moment. I think first I just want to name, it's really lovely the way that you show the integration of AEDP work through the vignettes, vignettes that you offer in your book, and also internal family systems and working with different parts of you, younger parts. If you're a listener for, and you have been for a while then you've perhaps heard the interviews we've done with Dick Schwartz, the most recent one is episode I wrote this down episode 140, where so you can you can get a sense of how the two modalities work really well together, fit super well together. And so all of that work to get to understand and process and metabolize your emotional experience, and to learn how to show up for yourself can come through what we've been talking about today and can also be helped by getting to identify the places in you that are stuck in a past experience. And the reason that I wanted to bring that up is because you were just talking about like the the possibility of skipping to connection and calmness, or doing what you can to to get to that place especially if you're going to reach out to someone that's important to you. And I liked how you also bring in the work of Peter Levine and talk about how all of this energy that emotions bring up in, in us when they're not processed when, when that energy isn't metabolized, then that is what creates trauma in our bodies -- that, that stuck energy that never quite got released. And so some of those stories in your book are just were so moving to me, as I, as I read them and got to see like oh right there's another nuance of how this could apply to me or to my clients. And so really beautiful, I think, to to see it written out like that but let's get into a little bit more of the... Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Thank you by the way. Neil Sattin: Yeah yeah you're welcome. Let's get into the metabolizing and in particular let's talk about fantasy, because that use of the imagination and how it can help I think can be so powerful for us when we, when we're wrestling with that question of: "Well, I feel so angry or I feel so sad or bereft or whatever it is, and I don't know like I want to bring it to that person I want them to feel my anger. I want them to see the depths of my sadness." How can we do it in a way that's actually going to be more productive and give us the satisfaction of truly handling and, and, and giving our body some relief from those unfulfilled impulses? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's a question that has many levels because I think what I'm first responding to is this idea of wanting someone to see and wanting to really be seen, in with one's emotions. And so I think that is legitimate. And, and then there are times when that's all somebody sees and they get weary. So it's it's really... you have to keep a lot in mind. So, I thought you were just going to kind of ask me about working with child parts and releasing stuck energy as a sort of either, either as an alone process or with a therapist and then you surprised me when you brought in this idea of, if you bring it into relationship and that makes it all sort of like it, I think we have to deal with one and then the other. Neil Sattin: Yeah let's start with a first part.: Yeah, let's start with the first part... Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah. Neil Sattin: ...which would be that the inner process that we might go through, and then and then we can bridge into bringing that into relationship. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Great. Great. So, I now I really consider myself a trauma therapist and I now think of trauma as something that everybody has just from surviving their childhoods. And so then we were changing the definition of trauma. This is still very controversial. You hear the word trauma, which most people still think of as a, as a some major catastrophic event happening, that is trauma. I'm adding on to that something that is also called small-T trauma -- which many people in the trauma field object to because it's it's sort of putting a value judgment on trauma. That one is smaller or bigger, which is, I want to say, that, that's not the case it's just some way to to differentiate different types of trauma. And small-T trauma is really what I believe everybody has, and small-T trauma is really, um, can be from so, so many, so many things that actually happened in our childhood. But the bottom line is, and I'm sure Diana Faucheux and David Marr spoke about this in the other episodes, that whenever we have too much emotion which happens a lot when we're children because our brains are full of emotion and very powerful emotion. So when there's too much emotion and too much aloneness at the same time, then the mind figures out a way to kind of block it. So it's not overwhelming. And then once that happens a lot where we're kind of blocking whole parts of ourselves and whole experiences and those are these little kind of child parts that we all have that are alone these kind of child parts of us exist alone because they had to be kind of cordoned off. So this, this happens you know if you have... In most families there's a parent that doesn't tolerate a certain emotion and so when you feel that emotion you are really told, you know, to put it away or get over it or you're yelled at or it's not acknowledged. So that kind of thing, on a small level, becomes big because when we have to exclude parts of our experience then they are literally excluded in the mind, they're not integrated. They're not connected to other parts of the... of us. So these are the the parts when I use the word parts from Richard Schwartz or in psychoanalytic literature they were called interjects. That we might have absorbed parts of our parents in us. It can be many, many different things but these are the parts that sort of live on with us, within us and they can get triggered and then we can start to react. The reaction is, is not really commensurate with what happens in our adult relationships. So, I think everyone can relate to like just when somebody pokes you in that just wrong place and you felt the feeling many, many times before and you can kind of track it back into fourth grade when you were bullied or ostracized, or you can track it back to sixth grade when you started to know that your sexuality or gender wasn't the same as the people around you or you were punished too severely, yelled at, you know all these or somebody you loved died when you were young or got sick or there was substance abuse, active substance abuse in the family, all these type of things and then these parts of us hold... They have their own triangles in a way and we need to be with those parts and liberate those old emotions so that they don't fire off and cause havoc in our adult relationships and inside us and make us feel bad all the time. Neil Sattin: Yes. So we can, so you can get related to in a particular moment. The part of you that is feeling, that is having this emotional experience and to what was happening at the time and the way that you portray that in the book, I think is, is a great illustration of how to go through this process for someone and then talk about if you could, that, taking it to that next level of where you incorporate fantasy as a way of helping either a younger part or just helping yourself in the present with an emotional feeling how you could actually kind of burn off some of that energy before you're bringing it out, into how you connect with the world. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah I guess I'll use the, we could take any emotion and you can change this, but I'm going to, I'm going to go with these big energy emotions that are common like how you burn off as you say anger energy and also kind of feeling good about the self prideful energy both of these create a lot of anxiety and depression in people when they're blocked. And so I really like to, to harp on let's liberate this, this energy and how can we do it in a safe way. So one of the the the most effective ways to work with anger is, and I use this a lot myself... And I'm sort of pausing here because as people listen to this, it may seem kind of crazy. But we begin with the fundamental idea that the brain doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality in certain, in emotional ways. And we know this from experiments where somebody imagines running and they're hooked up to an FMRI, that they imagine they're running. And there is movement in the in the parts of the brain as if they were actually running. So... And we see this every day in clinical practice. So, let's say I am angry, I'm going to take my sweet and wonderful husband John as an example here because I use him all the time. Let's say John does something, and he really doesn't anymore, we really get along quite well. But let's say he did something that really, really threw me into a rage. What I have learned to do and practice many times is before I go talk to him about it, I will, I know I will be able to identify that I am angry, right? And rage is sort of all emotions are on a spectrum from a little irritation or annoyance to outright rage. I will know, I will be able to say to myself: I am enraged. I will be able to feel that deeply in my body a burning energy in my stomach and a, and a movement of energy that wants to come right up and out, and I will not do anything, but I will focus in on that energy, listening to it with a kind of curiosity, kind of tuning in like a radio receiver feeling it deeply and seeing what that energy wants to do to John and it might want to just, so I and then I try to make it into a fantasy. So the idea is I'm noticing that if that energy could come up and out of me in a fantasy or a movie like, let it play out in a movie I would see myself just like punching the crap out of him. Like that's how angry I am that I really want to hurt him. And then I will allow myself in a fantasy to imagine doing that. And I do this in sessions for people that have a lot of pent up energy from being abused as children and neglected and various very hurtful things that were done to them. So I can see myself actually doing what this anger wants to do and trying to really even feel it as I see myself making contact with skin. And just let it... Imagining it and imagining it, watching it and watching it and watching it, and doing it and doing it and doing it in fantasy, until it feels done. Like the the energy will discharge and will drain out. And then when I tune back into my body, I'll feel probably tired and a little more calm so that I can then gather my wits about me and go back and say, and say, "We need to talk about what you did. I was so furious because you hurt me so badly when you did this this and this. And I never ever want you to do that again." That type of thing as opposed to storming out, I wanted divorce, you know this isn't working or attacking him you know verbally abusing him for everything that he's ever done, and which isn't going to help, it's going, it may feel better in the moment. And then I'm going to feel guilty afterwards. He's going to withdraw. It's going to escalate a fight and it's going to increase our disconnection. Neil Sattin: Yes. . Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Does that make sense? Neil Sattin: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And one thing that I think you mention in the book is how often you can go with that initial like you're feeling all that anger and rage and seeing that. And then when that is finally discharged through imagining this scenario, that it leaves room for another core emotion to rise up. So it may not end there, it may be that after you experience your rage, you then experience your sadness or your fear. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. Neil Sattin: And so there's there's a lot there to be processed and what you named so beautifully was the problem not only with having those experiences, but, or emotions but having them and feeling alone and how showing up for yourself in this way also undoes that aloneness. I think that's such a powerful aspect of the work as you describe it. It's also so powerful in my experience of Dick Schwartz's work in IFS, that it it's kind of undoing aloneness with yourself not that you don't want to get to a place where you're inviting other people in. But, it also just builds such resilience knowing that in a moment like that, a powerfully charged moment, you actually have the capacity to to do something about it. Just you. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. And in that sort of reminds me to say that when you are connecting to yourself in that way, one has to have the utmost compassion and empathy as though you were relating to your own child or pet who you love or someone that you really cared about that you would never hurt. It's really unconditional love and positive regard, and not shaming yourself not judging yourself. Right? Because fantasy is so fabulous it doesn't hurt anybody. Even though some people get scared you know, when a lot of people that have a lot of trauma or even a little trauma, and I first kind of try to teach them how to do this. They... Guilt comes up and they're like," Well I don't feel good about myself. You know good people don't do this," and and I was like, "Well I'll explain. You know, you don't do it out in real life. That's what we're trying to to prevent." But, the capacity to use fantasy is very, very healthy and that's why it's so important when you have little children to use imaginative play and even as parents listening that when you're one child let's say wants to hit your other child, when they're young, because it's not always easy to have a sibling. Just use this as an example. You don't kind of block the anger and say no you have to love your your sister or brother, and, and we don't hit, you have to find a way to, to accept and to channel it, like we don't hit grown ups and we don't say mean thing -- we don't say we don't hit people and we don't say mean things to people. But here's this doll you can imagine it's your sister. And we can beat it up together and have a good old time. And that way the kid is learning to sublimate -- how to use emotions and play at the exact same time and that it doesn't have to be a toxic experience that the emotions are validated and they have to be released. And it doesn't have to be with again beating up like or even a fantasy of beating up like I just shared about myself. It could be writing these things out, unedited, just writing what you want to say to someone drawing a picture of what you want to say or do to someone. The idea is to just get it out, and it has to work so we not only have to get it out but you have to sort of the next step after this is do I feel calmer. Do I feel better. And if the answer is no, there's either more to be done or there's inhibitory emotions that are getting in the way and complicating it or other emotions that need tending. And it may be that you need to bring it to someone who is a professional to help you do this. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I was going to say this could be a good place to get support. Especially at something. If you're like, Oh, that feels like a big river of rage or grief or whatever it is. Well great. Like it's awesome that you identified that and sit with someone who knows how to help, how to hold you in that. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Exactly. Exactly. Neil Sattin: Well what a rich conversation. And before we go today, Hilary I'm wondering if we can just take a moment to bring this back into the relational realm and, and talk about how, like, if you identify something going on with your partner or something is going on with you and we've talked about taking this space so that you can process and metabolize, is there a way to bring what you now know about the change triangle, maybe into your connections so that you and your partner can now be on the same team with seeing how this dynamic is at work as the two of you come together? What's a good first step, I think, for people to bring this into their relationship? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. Well, what what I would say as a, as a good first step is to make sure that both of you have the exact same information. So when possible, I really wrote the book to be used in many ways as a, as a workbook and to read the book together with your partner and to go through the exercises gives you just that, you're on the same page. And even though it will take practice over a lifetime to work it together. That at least you have the same bit of knowledge and you've gone through the same exercises which are pretty simple and, and, and, and, and just to say why I put case examples is because emotions have to be experienced. How do you help somebody get a sense for an experience? And that had to be through the stories. So, I would say just to make sure that the person that you're wanting to connect with has some basic emotion education. And... Neil Sattin: Perfect. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: And then after that established ground rules. I wrote a little blog on this for, for, for how to find your life partner on medium that you want to establish ground rules that you won't be mean that nobody is going to attack or retaliate in ways that are dangerous and hurtful and that you don't abandon, so that if a conversation has to stop because it gets hard, and one person gets too anxious, then you then you have to be able to say to each other. I'm overwhelmed I'm not able to really think as I'm talking to you, anymore. Let's take a break but we'll come back and finish this because really in relationships all there, all there is is talking. You have to just keep talking. And then lastly I would say is you want to try to use the change triangle to make sure that, that both people are relating as much as possible from a core place. Either from that openhearted state or from the emotional state of the core emotions where you're saying, you're using I statements like, "I'm afraid," "I feel anger about this," "I feel sadness about this," as opposed to you, you, you, you, you. And that, when you're, when both people move to the top of the triangle, when you're either you're they're anxious or ashamed or guilty or defensive, you really have to stop. Like, I make a time out motion when I'm working with couples or even working in my own relationship, let's stop and then I say let's rewind to where we were going fine and then somehow we went off the rails and then it's usually a miscommunication, or let's stop and take a break and calm down and let's come back tomorrow again sit and have coffee or tea and begin again and see where did we go wrong, where, where, literally if you sort of track moment to moment: You're having a discussion. Everything is going fine. I want to talk about you know, why we, we don't have more fun together and then all of a sudden one person starts to get anxious or you start to, one person starts to get angry then you can literally stop and say, "Let's rewind to right before you, like I felt like I was with you we were connected and then all of a sudden I said, 'Well I don't really you know. You know, you're no fun anymore.' And then I noticed you got defensive." And then that's where you have to work because the person might say, "Yeah. When you told me that I wasn't fun anymore it hurt my feelings. And then I, I went up into the top of the triangle. I started to get defensive." Neil Sattin: That's great. And, and I see to this opportunity for couples who really start to get this together to like, in a state of shame or anxiety or guilt those inhibitory emotions to learn how to show up for each other in those moments to help, settle whatever is going on or to help navigate their partner back into a place of like feeling understood or seen, and that might be a good, a good return visit for you on the show to talk a little bit more about how how they can collaborate in a moment like that to bring themselves back to a core emotional state. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yeah I would love to. Neil Sattin: Hilary Jacobs Hendel, thank you so much for being here. If people want to learn more about your work where can they find you? Hilary Jacobs Hendel: I have a website with tons of free resources all about emotions and that's Hilary-Jacobs-Hendel-dot-com. Or you could just google "the change triangle" and you can also get there by going to "the-change-triangle-dot-com," and there's articles that I've written for major media outlets. There's my blog which the titles are pretty explanatory of what they're about. And then there's a tool box section that has a lot of resources. So that would be the best place. I also have a youtube channel, so I could go over and explain certain aspects of this and I do something called 1 minute videos on emotional health, because everybody's so busy and nobody has an attention span anymore, so that's "The Change Triangle" YouTube station and then my Website. And then of course the book is the whole enchilada because it was what I did is it's got exercises so that you work The Change Triangle along with me as I'm working The Change Triangle with the people in my practice and then there's little bits of no jargon science to explain what's going on because I wouldn't have been interested in any of this had it not been deeply grounded in current neuroscience. That was really important to me. So, that's really gives you the whole kind of flavor of what's going on. Neil Sattin: Great. And again the book is called "It's Not Always Depression" and we will have links to all of that on the page for this episode where you can download the transcript. And that's Neil-Sattin-dot-com-slash-triangle or as always you can text the word passion to the number 3-3-4-4-4 and follow the instructions. Hilary... Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Yes. Can I just say one more thing? Neil Sattin: Yeah of course. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: The book just won two book awards that won the 2018 Best Book Award for psychology and mental health, and the Nautilus Award for personal growth. So I just wanted to share that because I'm hoping that people will read this book and that eventually the, our entire society will be very well educated from an emotional standpoint. I think it can really change things for the better. Neil Sattin: Absolutely and congratulations on those awards. They are well-deserved. You definitely have a gift from taking all of this information and making it really practical for people who read the book. So, big recommend for me. Hilary Jacobs Hendel: Thank you. Thank you.

Author of "It's Not Always Depression," Hilary Jacobs Hendel joins me to discuss: how shame can look like depression7 core emotions3 inhibiting emotions5 defensive emotionsusing fantasy to manage moodshow to resolve childhood traumashow to manage positive emotionsbenefits of shame, anxiety and guilthow to address conflicting emotionsAEDP (accelerated experiential dynamic processing)Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, is author of the critically acclaimed and two-time award-winning book, It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, Feb. 2018). She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, TIME, Oprah, Salon, and professional journals. Hendel also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. Hilary’s blog on emotions and how to use them for wellbeing is read worldwide. For more FREE resources on emotions and mental health, visit: Hilaryjacobshendel.comFor more information, free resources for mental health, and Hilary's blog visit: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/FB: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel/Twitter: @HilaryJHendelInstagram: Hilary Jacobs HendelThe Change Triangle YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxRHckyznerWhoSkPBozgfA

The certified psychoanalyst, author of It's Not Always Depression:Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self and AEDP psychotherapist opens up about her struggles with perfectionism and equating value with achievements, mistakes she has made as a parent, listening to our bodies, discovering our core emotions, how depression can misdiagnosed and advice on bringing about change in our lives using the change triangle. More About Our Guest  For more information, free resources for mental health, and Hilary's blog visit: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/Facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel:https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel/ Twitter: @HilaryJHendel Instagram: Hilary Jacobs Hendel The Change Triangle YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxRHckyznerWhoSkPBozgfA Support Our Sponsors!  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp online counseling.  To get a free week go to www.BetterHelp.com/mental  Must be 18.  This episode is sponsored by HoneyBook.  For 50% off your first year use promo code MENTAL This episode is sponsored by Stay Sexy & Don't Get Murdered, the audiobook by Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark.  Find it wherever you buy your audiobooks. This episode is sponsored by NewChapter Vitamins.  Find them at the Vitamin Shoppe, Whole Foods or your local health food store. This episode is sponsored by the Jordan Harbinger Show podcast.  To subscribe go to www.JordanHarbinger.com/subscribe WAYS TO HELP THE PODCAST ______________________ Subscribe via iTunes and leave a review.  It costs nothing. https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mental-illness-happy-hour/id427377900?mt=2 ————————————————————————— Spread the word via social media.   It costs nothing. Our website is www.mentalpod.com our FB is www.Facebook.com/mentalpod and our Twitter and Instagram are both @Mentalpod  -------------------------------------------------------- Become a much-needed Patreon monthly-donor (with occasional rewards) for as little as $1/month at www.Patreon.com/mentalpod Become a one-time or monthly donor via Paypal  or Zelle (make payment to mentalpod@gmail.com) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try Our Sponsor’s Products/Services ---------------------------------------------------

Hilary Jacobs Hendel answers the question of a caller from the Karen Hunter Show, post show. And Dr. Jason Johnson and Lurie Daniel Favors discuss the root causes of anger in black people. (Part 2)

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, therapist and author of It's Not Always Depression, explores emotions with Dr. Jason Johnson, Lurie Daniel Favors and Karen Hunter. This is a layered and powerful conversation about how black people relate to one another and the world. (Part 1)

Have you ever felt stuck, within yourself or within your relationship? Have you felt the effects of depression or anxiety as a result? You may know that intimacy is important - but today we’re going to show you how intimacy can help you heal your traumas and attachment injuries - so that you can get unstuck. This week, our guest is Diana Fosha, PhD, the developer of AEDP (Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy), a healing-based, transformation-oriented model of psychotherapeutic treatment. Diana Fosha is the Founder and Director of the AEDP Institute, and the author of The Transforming Power of Affect: A Model for Accelerated Change. Diana shares how she creates intimacy in a therapeutic setting and how that intimacy and safety helps clients make huge transformations in terms of their experience of their own lives. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Our sponsor today is Audible. Audible has the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet and now, with Audible Originals, the selection has gotten even better with custom content made for members. As a special offer, Audible wants to give you a free 30-day trial and 1 free audiobook. Go to Audible.com/relationship or text RELATIONSHIP to 500500 to get started. Resources: Visit Diana Fosha’s website to learn more about her work. Pick up your copy of Diana Fosha’s book, The Transforming Power of Affect: A Model for Accelerated Change FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE) Visit www.neilsattin.com/fosha to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Diana Fosha. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. You know, intimacy is a powerful thing, super powerful. It brings us together with our partners and enables us to achieve more than we would be able to on our own. And yet sometimes we get stuck and things don't flow quite so well. And that could be a stuck-ness that happens in our relatedness, in our relationship with our partner, or it could be more like an inner stuck-ness, where you feel like you're not being quite as effective as you'd want to be in your life, or you feel the effects of depression or anxiety; the kinds of things that hold you back where you know that you might not be shining your brightest. Neil Sattin: And yet intimacy has this amazing transformative power in how it gives us access to these deeper parts of ourselves. And I'm bringing this up because today's guest is a master of creating intimacy in a therapeutic setting, in a way that helps clients make huge changes in terms of their experience of their own lives. The name of her therapeutic modality is AEDP, or Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy. Now that sounds like a mouthful. It is a mouthful, but what you are going to discover in today's episode is just how simple it can be to effect profound transformation, all through harnessing who we innately are as humans, as feeling creatures. Neil Sattin: And I know we're called homo sapiens, we are people who know, but I believe that it's also important to acknowledge how we feel and that our feelings, as many illustrious people before me have noted, are part of what has allowed us to adapt to our world in ways that are beneficial to our survival and also to our enjoyment of life and living. So today's guest is none other than Dr. Diana Fosha who, along with being the creator of AEDP is also the author of The Transforming Power of Affect: A Model for Accelerated Change. And her modality uses attachment science, interpersonal neurobiology, to help therapists, again, create amazing changes, or facilitate amazing changes in their clients. And I think there's also a lot that's useful just for us to learn here about how we operate as people, that we can take into our lives and into our relationships in order to enhance our experience. And we're even going to talk about that process of enhancing our experience in today's conversation. So I think that's it from me, along with just mentioning that if you want a detailed transcript of today's conversation you can visit neilsattin.com/fosha, F-O-S-H-A, which is Diana's last name. Or as always you can text the word "Passion" to the number 33444 and follow the instructions. I think that's it, so Diana Fosha, thank you so much for being here with us today on Relationship Alive. Diana Fosha: Such a pleasure to be in conversation with you Neil. Thank you so much for the invitation. Neil Sattin: You are most welcome. And I hope I encapsulated everything in a way that... That makes sense, but we are of course going to dive in a little more deeply and help everyone understand what AEDP is all about. Diana Fosha: You are absolutely did a stellar job, and it's actually a wonderful thing to sort of hear my work sort of mirrored and condensed in that way, so I think we're off to a good start. Neil Sattin: Excellent, excellent. Well, to condense it and mirror it even further, because I've had people ask me, "What is that?", and "What's that big book you're reading?", because I've been carrying around The Transforming Power of Affect with me for probably the better part of the past month, and "Who is this person?" And the way that I've explained it to them is that by creating safety in the therapeutic setting, so a therapist creating enough safety so that you can experience the core emotions that contain within them the power to transform your experience. Diana Fosha: That's great, what shall we do for the rest of the hour? [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Well, let's talk about how we get there. And maybe you could start by talking about your stand, because it's clearly super important to you that a therapist be able to participate actively with their clients, as opposed to what I think we tend to think of with our therapist, which is that they're more passive or receptive, or maybe they validate, but they're not necessarily down there in the trenches with us. Diana Fosha: Right. And I'd be happy to talk about that. And I want to sort of just take one step back to sort of... To the... Another what I think of as really essential aspect of the model, and then we'll go to the stance and then get more deeply into it. And what I want to say is that, in addition to the safety that you talked about, in terms of the safety to really have people feel safe to come forth with their experience and who they are and then process those emotions, I would say that the most sort of core, core, core, fundamental assumption is that healing resides within us, that it's there from the get-go, side by side with the suffering, the stuck-ness that you talked about in your introduction, what have you, trauma, depression, difficulties in relationships, whatever it is that brings people to therapy and accounts for their not being fulfilled or shining as brightly, again, as you sort of said it in your introduction, that side by side with that, always, there's a capacity for healing that's just absolutely wired into us. Diana Fosha: And I think that's just something that's the guide, and an assumption that actually allows me to sort of sit with whoever I'm working with, just in a confident or comfortable way, that what they need is already... So much of it is so deeply within them, if we can just bring it forth. So with that, as I was going to say it in the background, but it's not in the background, with that as a foundation, I think that my stance as a therapist, is about creating a relationship, that the safety really comes from the fact that we actually are two people in the room and acting in that way. And that I consider myself part of this healing diet that my patient and I formed together, and that my experience and my responses, not just my thoughts and not just my words, are really part and parcel of what we're co-creating, that allows the person, hopefully, to start to feel safe from very, very early on, at the beginning. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah, you speak very eloquently in your book about the importance even of, right from the beginning, of the first session, to be creating that context of safety and being in it... Co-creating the process. Diana Fosha: Yes. I really spend a lot of time... I do a lot of training of therapists, and one of the things that I like to talk to them about is that the first session is sacred and it's sacred in one very, very particular way, it's the only encounter that we will ever have that has no history, that we're creating history in that first meeting, we've come to it with no history of each other, even by the second session, we already have an established way of being, not that it can't change, not that it can't be altered, I don't mean that, it's not fixed, but it's history. Whereas in the first session, you have this unique opportunity to define the relationship in particular terms, so that I think it's incredibly important. So that in AEDP, the first session is not really so much devoted to, "Tell me where you were born," and, "How many people are in your family?" and, "How many therapies, did you have?" that kind of history taking, which, of course, is important, because it captures information. But that information is there for the acquiring in the second session or in the seventh session, or in writing, or by a million different ways. But this unique interaction between us, where we're sort of creating something together for the first time, it's a unique opportunity; so therapy really starts from the very, very first moment of that very first encounter. Neil Sattin: It reminds me of a first date. And sometimes that can be a degree of pressure that people don't really like. But it's really true that before that moment, you don't have any idea about that person, or do they of you. And what I really like is that you're honoring the fact that you're creating a relationship by going to see a therapist. Diana Fosha: Exactly. Exactly. And in a way... And I like the first date analogy, it's a little bit easier in some ways, in that there's one person who's sort of in charge [chuckle] So it's not both people, sort of in one way it is and it one way it isn't there, that's why we have roles, and that's why you're going to see a therapist. But it has some of that unknown and potential and excitement, as well as terrifying aspect; being vulnerable with a total stranger who, by the second meeting, will not be a stranger anymore. Neil Sattin: Right. And one thing that really... Of the many. There are so many things that actually stood out for me about your work, but it was this idea of how so much of our suffering and pain comes from having experiences that occur in isolation, where we feel like we can't share them with another person, or there's something wrong with us and we have no way of really checking that out because, again, it's all happening inside us. And so the power of bringing an acknowledgement to every experience with an AEDP therapist of, "You're not alone. What you just went through right here with me, do you see how we were in this together?" Diana Fosha: I think that it's so crucial, and of course, it's implicit in any relationship, or in any therapeutic relationship. Yet the strange thing is that merely by being with another person, whether in conversation or in relationship, does not necessarily automatically translate into not feeling alone. And actually, I think, one of the most painful ways of feeling alone is feeling alone in the presence of other people. So that... One of the things that I'm very, very, very conscious of is to actually explore together with the person that I'm working with, who I'm working with, what their experience is of are being together; if it feels like we're being together, and if they feel accompanied. Diana Fosha: If they are aware, that as they're sharing something, or saying something, or feeling something, or not thinking something, and saying it out loud, it's actually being registered by another human who's there with them. And that's... To actually be able to have that experience of not feeling alone as you're going through something, is just very powerful and potentially very therapeutic, in and of, of itself. Because I think, as you've said, so much of what becomes our suffering or various forms of it, really has something to do with our aloneness, and either the fact that there's nobody that we can share it with, or the fact that we're experiencing something that absolutely overwhelms our resources, that were we there with somebody else. Diana Fosha: The trauma was... Would be as horrible, that our capacity to bear it or deal with it would be quite different. There's very, very interesting research that shows that for people who are in combat, if they have a buddy that they're going through the combat experience with, their chances of getting PTSD are significantly reduced, and that kind of finding is present in many, many other settings. Another... Just to mention one other, and sorry, because you were about to say something, there's also a similar kind of research that during World War II there were all these kids who were orphaned as their parents were taken to concentration camps and they were actually in a therapeutic home school run by Anna Freud and this other woman named Dorothy Burlingham, and they studied these orphans. And what they found out is that, again, with those kids who had somebody they were close to, a sibling, or a friend, or somebody really whom they felt bonded, were much less traumatized by these most devastating of experiences that they were going through, and this actually influenced the therapy. Neil Sattin: What I was going to say is... What was striking me in that moment was how we're here to talk about relationships, and it's always such a big irony when things start to get a little uncomfortable in relationship, how, theoretically, you're there with another person, but you can feel so alone. And I think that that's part of what we're trying to overcome when there are issues in a couple, is to remember that they are also there for each other, they're on the same team, they are each other's buddy, which hopefully helps them survive without too much trauma that they're inflicting upon each other from that stuck place. Diana Fosha: Exactly. Exactly. And of course, that so many couples who come to therapy are in a couple, but the difficulties have been such that they have been feeling very alone. So that's really the paradox, that if we're just able to sort of recognize that presence and share enough of ourselves that the other person also feels us, we've already done something very significant. Neil Sattin: Can we talk for a moment about what is it about this model that... Where does the healing take place? And in particular, I'm thinking about the difference between our core affective emotions and other things that come out as more like our defenses, our defensive strategies. Diana Fosha: Yeah, the healing... God. There are many opportunities for it and there are many aspects of AEDP that are experienced as healing, we're actually in the process of doing some empirical research into the model, and to do so we needed to create some scales to measure that the therapy is actually happening in some fashion related to how we say it should be happening. And we created a scale to measure change processes, and there are nine, and there could have been more. But I'll try to be... [chuckle] Diana Fosha: But I'll try to actually reduce it and condense it, even from the nine. I think that sometimes what we have been talking about, which is the experience of having one's alone-ness undone and feeling seen or feeling cared about, or just validated or understood, that in and of itself can be so profoundly transformative, not in and of itself and not forever, but those kinds of moments have tremendous power, so I think that's one piece. I think the other that you were beginning to talk about, which is that when we can't process, we can't fully process or express them, feel them, express them and do something about our emotions, either because they're overwhelming or because we're in environments where our core emotions are met with criticism or with ridicule or what have you, we do develop these kinds of protective strategies and... Which work beautifully in the short term; you don't get hurt, and you don't get shamed, and you don't get overwhelmed. Diana Fosha: But over time, by relying on them, they sort of... They form almost like a crust, a... Or a shell over our hearts and ourselves. And they become sort of like the I who we present to the world, and that person is not authentic or is not our true authentic self, so that just in being able to break through or let go of those protective mechanisms that protect us but also limit us, and have the courage to be vulnerable and touch our emotions, and start to experience them and express them and process them with another person, is another huge transformative opportunity, particularly because those emotions are wired into us to help us. I mean that's why they survived over so many eons and eons of evolution, they're really good for us, even though they're difficult. So that's the second piece. Diana Fosha: And then, I think I've said... So that's sort of three. [chuckle] And I'll mention one other, which I'm sure we'll end up talking about a little more, which is that in AEDP, in the kind of work that goes by that name, we do something very, very specific that, to my knowledge, is not done by any other therapeutic model, or it's not done systematically in any case, which is this. That any time there's a moment of change for the better, be it big or small, in a given session, we start to focus on the experience of that change, the experience of that moment of transformation. And we've discovered something really cool, which is that when you do that, the experience and the process of change or of transformation grows, and that in and of itself, is a huge source of transformative potential. Neil Sattin: Right. The power of focusing on what's going right versus always being focused on what's going wrong. And as soon as you fix something, "Well, let's move on to the next wrong thing," as opposed to... Diana Fosha: Exactly, like, "Okay, now we did that, it feels better. Excellent. Let's tackle the next thing." [chuckle] Which is reasonable enough, except that there's this other thing that can happen, that when we stay with a positive, when we stay with this thing that has just changed, and just gotten better or that feels right, these amazing, cool things happen when we do that. Neil Sattin: Like what? [chuckle] Diana Fosha: Like that feeling of something right growing, and it grows in a way that we can feel it in our bodies, literally, that we start to feel our chests expanding, or we start to feel this kind of streaming of alive-ness; so that's one aspect of it. And another aspect of it is that one feeling of something feeling right or good leads to another; pride can lead to calm, which can, in turn, can lead to joy. It varies from moment to moment and from person to person, but all of a sudden it's like you start with a little nugget and it just... Or you start with a seed, there are so many metaphors. And if you sort of nurture this particular seed, it just blossoms, right? We have this term, "flourishing," and I think that's, for me, one of the coolest things about the therapy, which is that people come in because they're suffering and they want their suffering relieved, and that's certainly a fundamental aim of the work, but it doesn't stop at relieving suffering, it continues, sort of organically, seamlessly, moves into also creating flourishing, this kind of from little seeds of growth or little seeds of change, and letting them flower. Neil Sattin: Right. And it makes an intuitive sense to me. And I'm reminded of, I can't remember who said it, but someone said something about how you get rid of darkness by shining the light brighter and... But not by taking away the darkness, and... So it makes me think of that, that the more you amplify the flourishing and allow that to grow organically, and that brings up a question for me, but the more that you do that, the less room there is for the shadow, the dysfunction, to be there and to be a problem. Diana Fosha: I think that's true. I think that's true. Yeah. Neil Sattin: So the question, the question was, and I do want to go back to core affective emotions, but before we do, what are some ways... because I don't know about you, but I've been in situations where someone has shone a spotlight on how good a time we're all having and it's actually doesn't amplified, in fact, it feels almost inauthentic, or like that person is somehow kind of removed from the moment instead of actually they're participating in it with all of us, so what are the qualities of shining a light on positive change, or on a moment of goodness that actually help create resonance? Diana Fosha: Right. No, I think that's excellent. So first of all, it has to come from within the individual who's doing the experience. In other words, it's not the therapist who says, "Gee whizz, look at that, isn't that great?" Which can evoke very much, or elicit very much exactly what you're saying while, actually, it actually isn't. You think it may be, but I'm actually sitting here feeling embarrassed, or it's evoking a lot of discomfort in me, or whatever it is. And so that we're always attuning to the experience, the internal experience, so that it's not that it looks like it feels right, it's the person, him or herself, who's really... So that, for instance, if I said, "What's that like for you?" Then the person will say, "Wow, I am really, really aware in this moment that this discomfort that I walk around with usually, is just not here. It's crazy, but it's really not here." I had this woman, and I'm thinking of her as I'm saying this, and I can hear her words sort of echoing for me, that she kept saying, "This is so weird. It's good, but it's so weird." [chuckle] Diana Fosha: Right? Because the actual experience of not having the depression, or not having the uptight-ness, it's nice, but if that's what you're used to, and like if you're wearing a tight shirt and you've just worn that tight shirt all the time, it's so nice to take it off, but it's also so strange, if that's what you're use to. So we're just... That's what we're processing, we're processing the person's very sort of granular and very specific experience. And as to your point, it's not just a linear process that one good thing leads to another, it can very often lead to another defense or another block or all of a sudden self-consciousness or embarrassment or anxiety. I mean it can go one thing... I'm sort of theoretically talking about what can happen and often does. But sometimes we're as uncomfortable and as embarrassed when we're feeling positive things, they feel exposing. Alright, so then there's another round of work, be it with protective mechanisms or shame or other traumatic issues that can be brought forth by the positive emotions. So it's not like the A leads to B leads to C leads to D. It's very... The process is very individual and the safety isn't staying very connected to what each person's experience really is. And welcoming it, welcoming it whether it's good or whether it's difficult. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And one thing that, in what you just said, that really stood out for me, even just in my initial question was, that it wasn't so much a declaration about, "Isn't this amazing what just happened?" It was more like a recognition that something is happening right now, and the question like, "What's your experience of this that's happening right now?" Diana Fosha: Right, what's this like for you? Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, which I mean I'm just even thinking in terms of our day-to-day lives, the number of times that we make assumptions about what's going on in our partner's worlds, versus just asking, "What's going on for you right now, what's your... What's this like for you, that we're experiencing right now?" Diana Fosha: And may I add? And also listening. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Yeah. Diana Fosha: Right. It's asking the question, knowing to ask the question and not assume and then really listening to what the other person has to say, because our experiences are so specific to us, and those assumptions so often turn out to be surprisingly not true for the other person. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah. And that's so much I think about what excited me in reading more and more about AEDP. And, you know, actually I was like looking are there any AEDP therapists in Maine. There aren't many actually, which is where I am. But I definitely want to experience it. Because again for me, I'm experiencing this more on a gut level that the power of being held that way in a therapeutic setting of being accepted, of having someone see me of being... Having someone there with me, and allowing me to get at whatever I haven't been able to quite get at before, and where my defensive structures and protective structures might be getting in the way of me just doing something simple like getting my to-do list done in an organized way. Diana Fosha: Yes, and I [chuckle] think I need to try to see if we can... Neil Sattin: Right, hook me up, Diana. Diana Fosha: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm doing the match-making. And we do have a therapist directory. But I appreciate what you're saying, it's a powerful thing. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and so let's talk a little bit more about...because we've been generalizing about particular kinds of emotional experiences that contain within it a lot of resource. It's resource for how we show up in the world, how we show up with our partners, how we fuel creative endeavors, but they're not... It's not all... It's not all joy, right? There are other emotions there that are important in terms of their power for us. Diana Fosha: Yes. Yes. Absolutely, all of the emotions, and there are really two that come to mind that I might want to just mention, because we tend to... Or people often avoid them, and one has to do with grief, and the other is anger. And I think there's just a... There's something about grief which is intrinsically painful, grief and sadness about losses and disappointments, and... Neil Sattin: Right, you even talk about how that can... And this... I read this and I was like, "Yes, of course," how that can come up in a therapeutic setting where something great has just happened, and then, rather than that feeling amazing, you can feel this overwhelming sense of grief for all the missed opportunities or times you didn't feel that when you were younger, and how important it is to be nurtured through an experience of grief or mourning around those losses. Diana Fosha: Exactly. Exactly. And to just recognize that actually, particularly if we're not alone and we're supported and that grief can be witnessed as we're feeling it; actually something very, very important happens, that in going through it and going through the process of mourning or feeling our sadness or grief, there's actually... When we come out the other side, there's a tremendous feeling of relief, and... I can feel it sort of as I'm saying it, that I almost feel my chest expanding and I feel... I feel my heart and all of this kind of energy is not going into containing something but actually feeling it. It's almost like you see a movie or a play that's deeply emotional, and you're crying, and then you come out, and there's an openness that comes in the wake of the grief, whether it's perspective or acceptance, but there's just something about... Our organism needs to mourn when we have those losses, and that's part of what psychic health really is. And when we just reflexively tighten up not so as not to feel it, we're putting all our energy into containing something that's natural; it's difficult but very profound and important. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Something that feels important here is how all of these deep emotions, when you experience them, you get to metabolize them, and I think that's not always clear to us that...because grief... The prospect of mourning something important, the loss of a relationship or a loved one, or a friend, or an opportunity, it can feel like, "Well, how will that... How will going through that pain help me?" so I'm going to, instead, I'm going to just pretend I'm okay, or like I got over it. Diana Fosha: Right. Right. Right. And it's sort of... That's what I mean, that these are very sort of powerful wired-in emotions, we have them; people all over the world, regardless of culture, experience grief and anger and sadness, and fear and joy; these are just sort of wired into us, and they're also wired into mammals. They're very, very powerful experiences, and if we don't fight them and we experience them, and metabolize them, then we're able to really come to terms with whatever these experiences are that evoked them and realize things. So I'll tell you something... A story comes to mind of work that I did many, many, many years ago, pretty early in my career, when I was working with a man whose father had died when he was a young boy, and he was left very alone with that experience. There was the belief in his family that he was too young, and therefore, nobody talked to him about it, I think under the good intentions of saving him pain; again, misguided intentions. Diana Fosha: He wasn't allowed to go to the funeral, so he was really... And by the time I met him several decades later, that wasn't the only thing, of course, but that was a major aspect. So he was a very numb person, he was very numb and dissociative and so on and so forth, and quite, quite distant and disconnected from his feelings, and he couldn't have... It manifested in his not really being able to have intimacy in his relationships. So after some time, we were finally able to make our way back to the little boy, he was seven or nine or so, I think, when his dad died, and he really was able to feel the grief and the fear of those early experiences, I think, for... Really for the first time, or one of the first times, certainly first time with somebody, and it was really, really deep sobs and deep pain. And I just have it as clear as if it had happened a week ago, or yesterday, of his weeping and the wave of tears ending, and his sort of breathing deeply and looking at me and starting to sort of calm, and his saying, "I have to go sit at the grave of my father," which he had never done. Neil Sattin: Wow. Diana Fosha: And that there was something about the power of that moment, of that knowing of what he needed to do, that only came after he went through this deep grieving. Neil Sattin: I'm feeling really moved by that, just imagining that person's experience and the power of that, and it makes me wonder how do we know if we're safe enough to go there? Is it a knowing or is it more like a deeper knowing where... I'm not even sure I'm articulating this question well, but I'm thinking about how often we end up in relationship because the dopamine and oxytocin and that potent cocktail, that... Of bio-chemicals that we get to experience when we're together, it gives us that illusion of safety, and often there's even the sense of like, "I can tell this person anything," or, "They see me more deeply than anyone ever does." And then part of the reckoning that comes later is trying to establish true safety, and I'm just wondering, yeah, how do we... If our goal is to really foster that safety where we are allowed to go to those deep levels of experience and come out the other side metabolizing them, what... Yeah, how do we know that we have that? Diana Fosha: You don't mean just in a therapeutic relationship, you mean really in the relationships that we have? Neil Sattin: Yeah. Yeah. Diana Fosha: Right? Neil Sattin: Right, because so many of us are trying to heal attachment wounds, right? And especially with our partners. Diana Fosha: Right. Right. I think a couple of things sort of come to mind in response to that, I think we... That's how we gain experience, is that sense of when we go to those deep places, how the person that we're with is able to respond and they can listen and empathize and be there with each time one of these things happen in small ways or large ways, I think that increases our sense of safety and vice versa, that sort of heavy cocktail that you're talking about of early days and... You know and then being willing to be really, really vulnerable to only discover that that person then sort of shuts down or disappears or gets critical or... Right? Diana Fosha: So, but then, which are... They're both very not unusual experiences, and I think the learning and the intimacy is forged through caring about getting better at it and repairing and owning our mistakes and trying again and being willing to risk again, because I think what's... And that takes me back to what I said at the beginning about the healing within, the great big assistant all of that is that while we want to feel safe and need to feel safe and we spend so much effort protecting ourselves, there's another way in which we want to be known, we want to... We also, much as that gentleman I was talking about had spent 40 years in numbness and dissociation, when he finally felt safe, there was also something in him that needed to grieve and wanted to grieve. So it's both; we need to feel safe, but we also want to feel known and that pushes us to take chances and be vulnerable and also, the importance, and this is what I want to emphasize, whether it's therapy or... And/or life, to learn to repair, because we sure as hell don't get it perfect we're just right so much of the time. Neil Sattin: Yeah, that must be an amazing part of your training for AEDP therapists, is that art of repairing with their clients when they haven't made quite the right step, in terms of an intervention or a noticing. Diana Fosha: Exactly. Exactly. And all of a sudden the person before you gets defended or spaces out or starts to talk pretty superficially. So there's maybe something got activated for them, but maybe it's something that I, as the therapist, "Wait a second, have I done something? Did I miss that? Did I... " Or any number of things. And I think the willingness to just want to know and the willingness to own those mistakes or those... Yeah, is so huge. "I am so sorry, please tell me," and let me look in myself, "What happened there? What made me space out? What made me be insensitive, or say something that felt un-empathic or... Right, let's be with that together, and let me own my stuff." Neil Sattin: Yeah, that willingness to be vulnerable that way, as a therapist or as a partner, to say, "Wow, I'm really sorry. I clearly messed up just then," and to recognize, in that way, that you're holding the well-being of the other person within you, and recognizing that you have some responsibility in that moment, for that. Diana Fosha: Yeah. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Diana Fosha: And I want to say another thing about that, that's sort of specific to how we teach and train in AEDP, which is that we make use of videotape, we videotape our sessions. So first of all, that requires our patient's trust in allowing us to do that, but patients really want to be seen and very often appreciate the fact that not only do they have their session, but that the therapist is going to look at the session again or... But it's the willingness of therapists to be vulnerable in showing their tapes to their supervisors. By the way, tapes is a dated term. Neil Sattin: I was going to say. [chuckle] Diana Fosha: We still call them video tapes, I haven't had video tapes in 20 years, but the language hasn't quite caught up with the technology, but it's that patients allowing the therapists to do that, the therapists being vulnerable and sharing that with their supervisors. And myself and my colleagues who teach AEDP are being vulnerable and actually showing our video tapes. You don't have to just... When you're training in AEDP, you don't have to just listen to me tell you, "Oh, do this and do that," I have to be vulnerable and put this thing up on the screen that shows me doing this work, for better and for worse, right? And I... So... Neil Sattin: I love that even in your... In the book, The Transforming Power of Affect there are lots of clinical vignettes, where you describe work, and it's annotated, so we know, as the reader, what's going on. But I loved how you even annotated like, "Well, this was a place where I totally messed up," or... It's really helpful to see that. And then, to also see, after, subsequently, how... What you do about that, how you don't just kinda go off the rails and stay off the rails. Diana Fosha: Right, or have to get it perfect all the time, because then we would [chuckle] be in very big trouble. Neil Sattin: Right. Right. Diana, I'm wondering if we can... There are obviously so many other things to talk about. And your work is so rich, I appreciate you taking the time to chat with us today. Hopefully, we can talk again at some point. One topic that's come up several times in this conversation has been the topic of our defenses, or protective strategies, and I'm wondering if you could give us some thoughts before we go on how to recognize a defensive strategy in ourselves and maybe in someone else, and then that next question of like, "When you recognize it, what do you do?" Diana Fosha: So I think maybe one of the ways to recognize it in ourselves is that we feel maybe comfortable enough, but nothing happens. [chuckle] Meaning things don't deepen, things don't open, they... It's almost like a conversation that stays somewhat superficial. Nobody's making a faux pas, but nobody's learning anything either, it's a little boring maybe. Conversationally, that's the equivalent of sort of keeping safe, but too safe, so safe that there's no exchange, right? So it would be some version of that, the sense of, "Okay, I stayed safe, but nothing happened, I didn't connect, I didn't learn, I didn't take chances." And I think the opposite of that feels a little whatever one's version is, a little breathless and a little risky, a little scary, a little exciting, a little bit like you don't exactly know what you're going to say next, right? I'm describing, I'm trying to describe sort of qualities of... Neil Sattin: My best podcast interviews. [chuckle] Diana Fosha: Right. Right. Right. When you ask the question to which you really don't know the answer yet. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Diana Fosha: As opposed to the... Right? Either way, in both ways. And similarly, you recognize it in somebody this, if you walk out of an encounter, a get-together, and you're not moved, or you haven't learned anything, or you're leaving much as you came, that's a pretty good indication that everybody's nice and protected, and nobody got hurt and nobody got shamed, but nobody connected. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Yeah, and so if I recognize that's going on, two questions come up for me, one is the... “What do I do about that?” The second is like, “are there hints of how I could discover what's the core experience that my defenses are actually protecting me against, to know myself more deeply?” Diana Fosha: There's actually a book that was written by a colleague of mine, which does a wonderful, wonderful job of talking about that, outside of the therapeutic situation. She actually uses examples from therapy, but she uses examples from therapy to help people identify their own defenses and their own emotions. It's called, It's Not Always Depression and the author is Hilary Jacobs Hendel, H-E-N-D-E-L. So that might be a very, very good recommendation about how to sort of apply this stuff to oneself. And I think the other is that we know... We know when we're avoiding grief... Not always, but a fair amount of the time we know that we're trying not to be angry, we know that we're trying to pretend that we're not anxious or afraid. I think there's a fair amount of knowing what we're trying not to feel when we're trying to not feel it. Right? I'm talking about sort of ordinary interactions rather than sort of deep-seated drama. That sort of necessarily takes us to therapy. But in our daily interactions, I think we have a pretty good idea in some part of our mind are these core experiences, core emotions. So, we're trying to not go near because we're scared of them, or they make us feel just vulnerable. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I could see even asking yourself the question in that moment of just asking yourself, "What am I avoiding by doing this thing that I always do, this engaging in this habit and being open to the answer that arises there?" Diana Fosha: Right, right. If I weren't talking so much now or if I weren't just asking the other person questions about him or herself, what might I be feeling? You know, whatever one's particular strategy is. Neil Sattin: Whoo. Yeah. Diana Fosha: Yeah. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: My sigh in that moment is just a recognition of... As much as I myself am an optimist, I try to dwell in the gratitude and all of that, but I recognize yeah, there's... There are a lot of places where there's pain or there's anger or there's disappointment or... And I'm feeling for all of you listening, the blessing hopefully in allowing yourself to feel more of that, so that you get the richness that's on the other side of metabolizing those things in your life. Diana, are you still there? Diana Fosha: I am. Neil Sattin: Okay. [chuckle] You were so silent, I wasn't sure if you had just been like, "And cut." I really appreciate your taking the time to be here with us today. And what's the best way for people who want to learn a little bit more about AEDP or therapists who might want to get some training in that modality. What's the best way for people to find out more about you and your work? Diana Fosha: Yes, thank you for asking that. I think that we have a very rich website. The URL is www.aedpinstitute.org. A-E-D-P institute, one word, lower case. And there is a lot about AEDP. There are a lot of papers that people can download for free, by myself and by my colleagues who teach in the AEDP Institute. And there's a lot of stuff on our trainings. I myself teach an immersion course, which is a five-day intensive, which I teach several times a year. The next one is coming up at the end of January in Florida. And there are other courses. We have skills courses and so on, and so forth. And we have a therapist directory [chuckle] where we might look for somebody that you or other people who are interested in this might see. And so I would highly, highly recommend that people who want to know more about it, either for therapeutic training, or just to learn a bit more about the approach really go to our website and has references to all of my books, and video tapes, and just a whole bunch of different kinds of resources. Neil Sattin: Great, and we will have all those links on the show notes, which you can get, again if you visit neilsattin.com/fosha. F-O-S-H-A. And so we'll have a link to aedpinstitute.org. And you can also download a transcript of this conversation to study it again and again. Unfortunately, we won't have a videotape for you to watch. [chuckle] Diana Fosha: Videotape. You're picking up my antiquated language. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Diana Fosha, thank you so much for being here with us today. Such a treat to be able to talk with you. Diana Fosha: Neil, thank you so much. This was one of those conversations, much like we were talking about that doesn't feel flat. And it goes to unexpected places, which makes it feel lively. And I'm really, really appreciating this chance to share this work. And you're really having gotten to know it. So, thank you so much. Neil Sattin: You're welcome. And the pleasure is totally mine I think. Well, maybe not totally, but quite a bit mine. Diana Fosha: I don't think so. Very mutual.  

Welcome to episode 162 of the Therapy Chat Podcast. This week Laura is flying solo to answer a listeners question connecting with emotions that we have previously suppressed and not allowed to come to the surface.  Resources: Get a free month and 1 free book while supporting Therapy Chat: www.audibletrial.com/therapychat   Kristin Neff's website: www.selfcompassion.org   Book: Self Compassion by Kristin Neff   Christopher Germer's Mindful Self Compassion website: www.centerformsc.org   Book: The Mindful Path to Self Compassion by Christopher Germer   Tara Brach's website: www.tarabrach.com/compassion1   Hilary Jacobs Hendel's website: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/   Book: It's Not Always Depression   Our first interview: Episode 97   Our second interview: Episode 134   Dr. Jonice Webb's website: https://drjonicewebb.com/   Books: Running On Empty and Running On Empty No More   Our first interview: Episode 25   Our second interview: Episode 111   The Adverse Childhood Experiences Study questions: https://acestoohigh.com/got-your-ace-score/   David Treleaven's website: https://www.davidtreleaven.com/   Book: Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness   Our interview: Episode 128   Deirdre Fay's website: https://dfay.com/   our interview: Episode 145 Leave me a message via Speakpipe by going to https://therapychatpodcast.com and clicking on the green Speakpipe button. Please consider supporting Therapy Chat by becoming a member on Patreon! Just $1 a month would make a huge impact to keep Therapy Chat going strong! To learn more: https://patreon.com/TherapyChat - members get special perks and swag too! Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat! Please be sure to go to iTunes and leave a rating and review, subscribe and download episodes. You can also download the Therapy Chat app on iTunes by clicking here. Podcast produced by Pete Bailey - https://petebailey.net/audio

Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a psychotherapist who switched from practicing traditional talk psychotherapy to accelerated experimental dynamic psychotherapy. She teaches us that our core emotions are automatic and grounded in universal physical experiences. Her new book is called, It’s Not Always Depression: Working The Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to your Authentic Self. In this episode, she goes into great instructional detail about how to identify and process your emotions in the moment. If you’ve ever felt a strong emotion (and who hasn’t), this episode will teach you how to move through it skillfully, rather than having your strong emotions wreak havoc in yourself and with others. RxBar & RxNut Butter wants to build delicious food the right way – with transparency on their simple, real ingredients. Get 25% off your first order of their best seller variety pack. Use URL http://www.rxbar.com/wolf and enter promo code WOLF at checkout (the US only)Ancestry DNA- unlock your family story – the perfect holiday gift. To get it for the special price of $59 use URL http://www.ancestry.com/wolfIn This Interview, Hilary Jabobs Hendel and I Discuss…Her new book, It’s Not Always Depression: Working The Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to your Authentic SelfThe 7 C’s of our authentic selfThe science and biology of emotionsThe change triangleThe Core Emotions: Fear, Anger, Sadness, Disgust, Joy, Excitement and Sexual ExcitementThe 3 Inhibitory Emotions: Anxiety, Guilt, and ShameHow core emotions have energy and want to come up and out- to be expressedInhibitory emotions dampening our core emotions The difference between defenses and inhibitory emotionsHow to work The Change TriangleTrauma vs traumaThe power of naming your emotionsOur open-hearted stateWhen our emotions overwhelm us, it can be helpful to have someone else process themGrounding and breathingThe role of core emotions is to ready us for action so they are first physical sensations, traveling from the brain down the vegus nerveAll core emotions have impulses associated with themHow harmful self-criticism and self-judgment can beRelating to ourselves as a small childHealthy shame vs toxic shameHilary Jacobs Hendel LinksHomepageTwitter

Hilary Jacobs Hendel is back! She joins us to talk about the misconceptions about emotions and how we can educate ourselves and others to further our healing. To relieve her patients’ suffering, psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel switched from practicing traditional talk psychotherapy to Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP). Traditional therapy focuses on people’s thoughts and stories while AEDP is a healing methodology that helps people connect with their core emotions. Hendel teaches us that core emotions like joy, anger, sadness, fear, and excitement, are automatic and universal physical experiences; this is firmly grounded in neuroscience. Lack of access to these core emotions is at the root of anxiety, depression, and many other problems people suffer from today. We can all be taught to rediscover our core emotions with The Change Triangle, an easy to learn tool that Hendel uses to help people move through emotions to a place of calm and which is an important part of healing anxiety and depression. After years of using this tool in her private practice, Hendel was convinced that it could be a life-changing resource for anyone.HILARY JACOBS HENDEL received her BA in Biochemistry from Wesleyan University, and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times and professional journals. Hilary was the Mental Health Consultant for the Emmy Award winning television show Mad Men on AMC. www.hilaryjacobshendel.comwww.aedpinstitute.org

Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW, is author of the book, It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self (Random House, 2018). She received her BA in biochemistry from Wesleyan University and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times, Time, Oprah.com, and professional journals. Hendel also consulted on the psychological development of characters on AMC’s Mad Men. Free resources at hilaryjacobshendel.com. 

Sara DaSilva, of Audible Feast, interviews Hilary Jacobs Hendel, who was the guest on one of the podcasts we listened to as part of the June podcast playlist on Emotions. The episode that Hilary was a guest on was the Parenting Teens podcast episode entitled “37: Hilary Jacobs Hendel – It’s Not Always Depression.” Here are some links to resources that Sara and Hilary talked about: Hilary’s book, It’s Not Always Depression: Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to your Authentic Self Hilary’s New York Times article, “It's Not Always Depression, Sometimes It's Shame” The Change Triangle, a tool that Hilary uses to help people get back to their true self. More about Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) Diana Fosha, PhD, who developed AEDP Other trauma-informed treatments other than AEDP: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy AEDP Therapist Directory Get in touch with Hilary Jacobs Hendel: http://www.changetriangle.com Get involved in the discussion! Join PBC: newsletter, in-person chapter, Facebook Group, twitter Join Audible Feast: website, newsletter, Facebook, twitter Music in this episode is “City Lights” by Audiobinger downloaded from the Free Music Archive Audio editing and production by Steven Zampanti of Conceptual Podcasting.

Welcome to episode 134 of the Therapy Chat Podcast with host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C. This week, we’re delighted to welcome back Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW. In this episode, Hilary speaks to me all about her amazing new book “It’s Not Always Depression”. Hilary grew up in New York City in a culture of "mind over matter." Raised by a psychiatrist and a guidance counselor, family time included analyzing her thoughts and dreams. Feelings were rarely mentioned (except perhaps to discuss how to get rid of them!) She thought she had total control over my emotions. Now she wants to share what she (and many psychotherapists and researchers) know about the new science of emotions. She wants others to learn what she had the good fortune to learn: that core emotions provide a path to physical and psychological well-being. Resources http://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel Become a member of Therapy Chat by joining me on Patreon: https://patreon.com/TherapyChat  Register now for the next Daring Way™ and Relational Equine Assisted Learning retreat: https://laurareaganlcswc.com/retreat Leave me a message via Speakpipe by going to https://therapychatpodcast.com and clicking on the green Speakpipe button. Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat! Please be sure to go to iTunes and leave a rating and review, subscribe and download episodes. You can also download the Therapy Chat app on iTunes by clicking here.

Are you worried about a teen who says they are depressed? Do you see anxiety in your teen? Do you find vagueness a part of yours or your teen’s communication? In part two of our podcast series with Hilary Jacobs Hendel, we learn about what to do if a teen says they are depressed or if they exhibit anxiety. Hilary talks about the importance of roots and wings for our children, the difference between healthy and unhealthy shame in parenting, and why families fall into vagueness as a defense in their communication with one another. You can find Hilary at www.Hilaryjacobshendel.com and her book at Amazon.

#depression #mentalhealth #mentalillness #stigma #mindfulness

How do you respond to your child when they get angry at you?  Is your answer or reaction also one of anger?  Wouldn’t it be great if we understood what emotions get triggered in us that make us respond the way we do? This podcast with Hilary Jacobs Hendel will help you answer these questions.  Hilary has written a book called “It’s Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to Your Authentic Self.”  While the title might lead you to think this book is about therapy or psychoanalysis, there is a lot in it to help parents understand where our emotions come from and how we can respond differently to our kids when they are upset; we can also teach them how to deal with their emotions, rather than throwing up defenses to avoid them. You can find Hilary at www.Hilaryjacobshendel.com and her book will be released tomorrow – February 6th.  It’s available now at Amazon. 

To relieve her patients’ suffering, psychotherapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel switched from practicing traditional talk psychotherapy to Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP). Traditional therapy focuses on people’s thoughts and stories while AEDP is a healing methodology that helps people connect with their core emotions. Hendel teaches us that core emotions like joy, anger, sadness, fear, and excitement, are automatic and universal physical experiences; this is firmly grounded in neuroscience. Lack of access to these core emotions is at the root of anxiety, depression, and many other problems people suffer from today. We can all be taught to rediscover our core emotions with The Change Triangle, an easy to learn tool that Hendel uses to help people move through emotions to a place of calm and which is an important part of healing anxiety and depression. After years of using this tool in her private practice, Hendel was convinced that it could be a life-changing resource for anyone.HILARY JACOBS HENDEL received her BA in Biochemistry from Wesleyan University, and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. She has published articles in The New York Times and professional journals. Hilary was the Mental Health Consultant for the Emmy Award winning television show Mad Men on AMC. She lives in New York City.www.hilaryjacobshendel.comwww.aedpinstitute.org

This month we are celebrating Therapy Chat! Therapy Chat's 2nd birthday is coming up this month, we recently achieved our first month of 50,000 downloads, and the 100th episode is coming out at the end of this month! Listen to my interview with Hilary Jacobs Hendel, which was the 4th most popular episode overall since Therapy Chat started! She talks about accessing core emotions in psychotherapy and her upcoming book, It's Not Always Depression: Working the Change Triangle to Listen to the Body, Discover Core Emotions, and Connect to your Authentic Self. She also talks about her work consulting on the AMC TV show, Mad Men, one of Laura's favorites for its accurate depiction of someone who is tortured by his past and doesn't realize what is affecting him.  Visit Hilary's website for all the latest details on what she's up to: https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/  Also, go to https://therapychatpodcast.com to leave a message using Speakpipe. Tell Laura which episode is your favorite and why. Your message may be used in the upcoming 100th episode celebration later in August!  To get the details about the Authentic Self Retreat and the Authentic Therapist Retreat co-hosted by Laura Reagan and Charlotte Hiler Easley, visit: https://laurareaganlcswc.com/retreats-1  Thanks for your support! Therapy Chat wouldn't be what it is without you!

Welcome to episode 70 of the Therapy Chat Podcast with host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C. This week’s guest features Hilary Jacobs Hendel, LCSW. Hilary was gracious enough to speak to me again after a fault with technology disrupted our previous interview. I originally touched base with Hilary because she consulted on the show Mad Men (which I’m a huge fan of) and in episode 53 & 54 you can hear me dissect the character of Don Draper and relate it to childhood trauma, secrecy, and shame. Hilary grew up in New York City in a culture of "mind over matter." Raised by a psychiatrist and a guidance counselor, family time included analyzing her thoughts and dreams. Feelings were rarely mentioned (except perhaps to discuss how to get rid of them!) She thought she had total control over my emotions. Now she wants to share what she (and many psychotherapists and researchers) know about the new science of emotions. She wants others to learn what she had the good fortune to learn: that core emotions provide a path to physical and psychological well-being. In the episode, Hilary talks about core emotions, the change triangle, the disconnect between thoughts and body experience. She also goes further in depth on her analysis of the character Don Draper from Mad Men, analyzing which core feelings Don would able to identify after treatment. Resources http://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com https://www.facebook.com/AuthorHilaryJacobsHendel Today's sponsor, Lesley University: http://www.lesley.edu/mental-health  Visit Therapy Chat website at Http://therapychatpodcast.com and send host Laura Reagan a voice message letting her know what you think of Therapy Chat! Did you like this episode? Did you dislike it? Let her know! Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat! Please be sure to go to iTunes and leave a rating and review, subscribe and download episodes.

Hilary Jacobs Hendel is a trauma psychotherapist with a focus on emotions and the body. She has an extensive background in science and psychotherapy including a BA in Biochemistry from Wesleyan University, a doctoral degree from Columbia University and an MSW from Fordham University. She is a certified psychoanalyst and a certified AEDP psychotherapist and supervisor. Hilary has published articles in The New York Times and professional journals and writes a blog called The Change Triangle. Hilary was also the Mental Health Consultant for the Emmy Award winning television show Mad Men on AMC. She lives and practices in New York City.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-trauma-therapist-podcast-with-guy-macpherson-phd-inspiring-interviews-with-thought-leaders-in-the-field-of-trauma/donationsWant to advertise on this podcast? Go to https://redcircle.com/brands and sign up.