Podcast appearances and mentions of Marty Neumeier

Ask ten marketers to define brand and you get ten answers. Ask them who owns it and you get one: marketing. Marc and V think that second answer is the problem.In this reboot of episode 4, they work through three questions with no guest and no script. What is brand? Marty Neumeier calls it the gut feeling people have about you. Roger Martin calls it generating confidence. Both descriptions point at things the promotion team does not control.Who owns it? V argues brand needs its own team, possibly reporting to the CEO, because the frontline, the packaging, the product roadmap and the customer service queue all write the brand whether marketing likes it or not. Marc pushes back on where the line sits, and lands on why an ad only ever amplifies the truth.Why is any of it useful? This is where it gets uncomfortable. NPS goes up when you lose customers. Last click hands the credit to the channel that was standing closest to the till. Share of search actually predicts something. And the retention economics everyone repeats turns out to be a thought experiment nobody checked.Recorded in 2021. Republished because the org chart problem has not moved.

What if your company's biggest profit problem isn't operations… but branding?   In crowded markets, many companies have strong name recognition but still struggle to command higher prices, increase margins, or truly stand apart from competitors. In this episode, Bradley Hartmann breaks down the key lessons from The Brand Gap by Marty Neumeier and explains why branding is far more than logos, slogans, or marketing campaigns. It's the emotional connection that drives buyer trust and pricing power.   In this episode, you will learn: How strong branding increases pricing power and protects companies from commoditization The five branding disciplines that help construction companies stand out in crowded markets Why most construction brands fail to communicate clear differentiation—and how to fix it   Press play to learn how stronger branding can help your business increase margins, attract better customers, and stand out in a crowded market.   At Bradley Hartmann & Company, we help construction teams improve sales, leadership,  and communication by reducing miscommunication, strengthening teamwork, and bridging language gaps between English and Spanish speakers. To learn more about our product offerings, visit bradleyhartmannandco.com.   The Construction Leadership Podcast dives into essential leadership topics in construction, including strategy, emotional intelligence, communication skills, confidence, innovation, and effective decision-making. You'll also gain insights into delegation, cultural intelligence, goal setting, team building, employee engagement, and how to overcome common culture problems—whether you're leading a crew or managing an entire organization.   Have topic ideas or guest recommendations? Contact us at info@bradleyhartmannandco.com.   New podcasts are dropped every Tuesday and Thursday.   This episode is brought to you by The Construction Spanish Toolbox —the most practical way for construction teams to learn jobsite-ready Spanish in just minutes a day over 6 months.      

What does your brand actually say about your business, and when is it time to change it? In this episode of The Localist, host Carrie Rollwagen sits down with Caleb Chancey, Creative Director at Infomedia, to answer real branding questions submitted by the audience. They cover what branding actually means beyond fonts and colors, whether AI-generated logos are a good starting point, why simplicity can be the most expensive option, and how to know when your brand needs to grow. Caleb and Carrie also pull back the curtain on the real-world branding evolution of The Localist podcast, including the creation of Localist Lab, as a practical case study in how small business brands can adapt and expand without losing what makes them recognizable. Whether you are just starting out or years into running a business, this conversation will help you think differently about the brand you are building.

We're closing out 2025 with a highlight reel from Season 6 of JUST Branding. This year we sat down with some serious heavy hitters, including Mark Ritson, Rory Sutherland, Marty Neumeier (round two), David Aaker (round two), Laura Ries, plus guests like Simon Dixon (DixonBaxi), Michael Bungay Stanier, Jay Clouse, and more. In this best of episode, Jacob and Matt pull the sharpest clips, biggest lessons, and most repeated themes that matter if you're building a brand that lasts. What you'll hear in this episode Branding basics that still win: meaning, relevance, relationshipsPositioning that actually works (and why “positioning” isn't the goal)Strategic enemies and the power of contrastLeadership and alignment (yes, including the uncomfortable honesty)Culture as brand, not a side projectCustomer truth and the discipline of saying “not everyone”Problem framing and why the first answer is rarely the bestBrand fame vs hype and playing the long gameExecution realities, including SEO getting tougher in an AI driven worldCommunity vs audience, and what participation really costs Featured clips in this highlight episode Branding earns its keep through meaning, relevance, relationships (Ep. 6.11, Simon Dixon)Positioning is not the end, it's the start (Ep. 6.05, Mark Ritson)One page brand strategy thinking (Ep. 6.05, Mark Ritson)Strategic enemy creates value through contrast (Ep. 6.17, Laura Ries)Leadership endorsement is non negotiable (Ep. 6.01, Steve Noss)Brand alignment requires honesty (Ep. 6.03, Brandon Coleman Jr.)Culture is the brand, internally first (Ep. 6.15, David Aaker)Brands need a real relationship with culture (Ep. 6.08, Cyril Louis)Go wide on problem solving, don't accept the first frame (Ep. 6.09, Rory Sutherland)Stay curious longer when coaching (Ep. 6.10, Michael Bungay Stanier)Not everyone is a customer (Ep. 6.11, Simon Dixon)Talk to your customers, find your core group (Ep. 6.02, Brandon Kim)Play drives innovation (Ep. 6.06, Melissa Dinwiddie)Hype vs fame, and why the long game wins (Ep. 6.19, Dan Cushing and Diego Borgo)Complexity happens for a reason, learn the client's world (Ep. 6.18, James Greenfield)Influence matters (Ep. 6.02, Lida Citroën)Be careful entering politics and bandwagons (Ep. 6.04, Jeroen Reuven)SEO is harder with AI, so brand matters more (Ep. 6.14, Mordy Oberstein)ABM works when sales and marketing actually align (Ep. 6.07, Jennifer Mancusi)Audience is not community (Ep. 6.12, Jay Clouse) Season 7 kicks off late January 2026. Until then, hit follow, share this episode with a brand builder mate, and if you've got 30 seconds, a 5 star review on Apple Podcasts helps the show reach more people.

Author Marty Neumeier discusses his new thriller, Octavo. This didactic novel delves into the nature of creativity while spinning a thrilling tale through two storylines. One is set during the Renaissance and follows the last pupil of Leonardo DaVinci who writes an adventurous account of the lengths he and DaVinci go through to get DaVinci's notebooks published. There is a mystery surrounding why and how the notebooks fail to be published, and Marty's tale shows DaVinci in the role of detective, trying to solve the mystery. The second storyline is set in modern times and features two art authenticators discover the manuscript. Determined not to let the manuscript meet the same fate as Davinci's notebooks, they hatch a plan to steal it, which leads to even more adventure.

Hi there and welcome back to another edition of ScaleUp Radio, the podcast brought to you by Smart90, inspired by the Entrepreneurial ScaleUp System and designed to make navigating our ScaleUp journeys that little bit easier by learning from others' experiences. I'm Kevin Brent and in today's episode I'm joined by Steve Johnson. Steve's a founder who's been in the trenches, he grew his SaaS business from £750k to over £5 million ARR in just three years. In this conversation, we break down his proven 3-stage framework for scaling sales the right way, starting with the founder doing the selling. This episode is structured in three parts: First, we explore Steve's background, business model, and where he is on the scaleup journey. Second, we dive into the tough lessons of scaling sales, from hiring evangelists over mercenaries, to the critical role of positioning. And finally, we wrap up with a few quickfire questions to hear Steve's take on leadership and learning. One key takeaway: "If the CEO hasn't sold it themselves, they've no idea what makes a good sales process, or a good hire." Quick heads-up, we're looking for a handful of founders to test our new AI-powered Smart90 Lite app. It's built to help you stay accountable and actually deliver on your goals, in just a few minutes a day. It's free while we're in testing, and your feedback will help shape the final version.

The Marketing Meeting is back! In her return to the podcast after a brief layoff, Itir is joined by Marty Neumeyer, to discuss the core principles of branding. Marty is the branding expert who famously said, "Your brand isn't what you say it is. It's what they say it is." Marty and Itir dissect common misconceptions about branding, emphasizing that a brand is fundamentally the customer's perception, rather than a logo or product. Marty explains how to start branding with a targeted niche audience and the importance of aligning a company's purpose beyond mere profit. They also cover the distinction between branding and marketing, noting how branding is a long-term strategy while marketing tends to be short-term and tactical. Marty shares insights on how companies can stay original in the AI era. Last but not least, they discuss Marty's exciting new novel, Octavo, and the intriguing design and formatting choices he made to set the book apart from the pack. Marty started as a graphic designer and copywriter in the 1970s. In 1984, when the Macintosh launched, he moved to Silicon Valley to help companies like Apple, Netscape, HP, Adobe, and Google build their brands. In 1996 he started Critique, the first magazine about design thinking. He then launched Neutron, a design think tank focused on brand-building processes that drive organizational change. He later merged Neutron with Liquid Agency. As Director of CEO Branding at Liquid, he consults with leaders and executives of some of the world's most exciting companies, while writing and speaking on the topics of business strategy, design, and innovation. He takes his coffee at home in Mexico. Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iloWbgN8_VE Learn more about Marty's newest book, Octavo: https://www.amazon.com/Octavo-Novel-Marty-Neumeier-ebook/dp/B0DRLNPGZJ Connect with Marty Neumeier on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinindig If you have any questions about brands and marketing, connect with the host of this channel, Itir Eraslan, on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itireraslan/

*Pre-order Octavo on Amazon*Episode Description:In this week's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking with one of my design icons, Marty Neumeier, who is an accomplished designer and author. We chat about his new design-thriller book, The Scarlett Files/Octavo, his shift from non-fiction to fiction, and how he integrates design and writing within his work. Marty also shares how his early experiences shaped his career and why storytelling plays such an essential role in branding, design, and his writing.Guest Name: Marty NeumeierGuest Website: martyneumeier.comOctavo Book: Pre-order on AmazonSubstacksThe Scarlett Files: martyneumeier.substack.comLevel C: levelc.substack.com00:00: Intro & Minimind Wins From Past Students07:55: Marty's Journey in Design and Writing10:50: The Scarlet Files on Substack11:19: The Origins of Graphic Design12:58: Leonardo da Vinci's Influence16:33: Challenges of Writing Fiction18:49: The Intersection of Branding and Storytelling26:20: Marketing Strategies for Authors40:44: The Renaissance and Modern Story43:36: The Aldine Press and Its Innovations48:00: The Importance of Mentorship52:31: Level C: Master Classes for Professionals57:10: The Role of Testing in DesignLinks:The Design Minimind    • Sign up to be notified - Applications for cohort 5 opens Nov 1st, 2025Download my FREE Creative Direction Figma Template (includes 4 audio trainings as well)Get 30% off of your HoneyBook subscription - The CRM I use in my studio.*Enjoy 1 month of Showit FREE with my code “HelloJune” when you sign up.*Earn $100 after you run your first payroll with Gusto, my payroll and compliance software.*Get 50% off your first year of Flodesk, my email marketing software.**These are affiliate links which means I may earn a commission.Connect With Us:Our Free Facebook CommunityOur WebsitePodcast InstagramHello June Creative InstagramThe Design MinimindJoin The Creative Diaries (my email list)Tags: designer, design, brand design, brand identity design, design studio, design business, graphic design, brand designer, better podcast, brand designer podcast, logo design, brand identity design

In this episode of ScaleUp Radio, Kevin Brent is joined by Wes Henstock, founder of Confid3ntial – a purpose-led design and brand strategy agency with a global reach and a truly distinctive structure. Launched in 2006 after an unexpected layoff, Confid3ntial began as a white-label service provider for creative agencies. It has since evolved into a remote-first collective of creatives, united by the mission of delivering "pixels with purpose" – where branding is driven by meaning, not just aesthetics. In their conversation, Wes shares his views on how purpose should infuse every part of a business – from culture and team communication to client strategy and design. He also highlights the power of relationship-building, revealing that most of Confid3ntial's clients come from long-standing personal networks rather than traditional marketing. This episode is structured into three key parts: The Business Journey – Wes walks us through Confid3ntial's origins, remote operating model, and evolution from a behind-the-scenes support team to a values-driven agency. Scaling Challenges – From staying lean and global to debating the need for physical offices, Wes shares what it means to grow a business around trust, flexibility, and authenticity. Quickfire Round – Get a glimpse into Wes's personal inspirations, mentors like Marty Neumeier, and his philosophy of learning and giving back.  

As democracy fractures and trust erodes, branding enters unfamiliar territory. What happens to brand building when truth becomes optional and power consolidates? Learn more at www. justcreative.com/podcast In this episode, we're joined by Marty Neumeier—one of the most influential voices in branding—to explore what it means to design brands in a world increasingly shaped by autocracy, AI, and cultural volatility. We unpack: • Why branding depends on openness, trust, and shared meaning • What AI, media, and power shifts are doing to perception • The risks of brand neutrality—and the cost of staying silent • The role of brand builders as educators, sense-makers, and cultural participants • Why Level C is pushing brand education into new territory • How business can remain human in an increasingly controlled landscape This is a timely, wide-ranging conversation about branding's responsibility, relevance, and future. If you're a strategist, creative, or leader—this one asks more of you.

Marty Neumeier, dalam bukunya yang berjudul "The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design," menyajikan perspektif baru tentang branding, melampaui sekadar logo atau identitas korporat. Ia mendefinisikan merek sebagai "perasaan naluriah seseorang tentang suatu produk, layanan, atau perusahaan." Neumeier mengidentifikasi "kesenjangan merek" sebagai jurang pemisah antara strategi bisnis yang logis (otak kiri) dan eksekusi kreatif yang intuitif (otak kanan), yang seringkali menghambat komunikasi merek yang efektif dan menciptakan kebingungan di benak konsumen. Pentingnya menjembatani kesenjangan ini terletak pada kemampuannya untuk membangun "merek karismatik"—merek yang dianggap tak tergantikan oleh konsumen, yang cenderung mendominasi pasar dan mampu menetapkan harga premium. Merek karismatik dicirikan oleh posisi kompetitif yang jelas, integritas, dan dedikasi pada estetika, yang berfungsi sebagai bahasa perasaan di tengah banjir informasi. Neumeier menguraikan lima disiplin utama untuk mencapai hal ini: diferensiasi (menentukan keunikan), kolaborasi (membangun merek secara kolektif), inovasi (menciptakan ide-ide segar dan memicu emosi), validasi (mendapatkan umpan balik yang jujur), dan kultivasi (menjadikan merek sebagai kompas hidup yang memandu setiap aspek organisasi). Prinsip-prinsip "The Brand Gap" sangat relevan bagi organisasi masyarakat sipil (OMS) yang juga bersaing untuk perhatian dan kepercayaan. OMS dapat menerapkan diferensiasi dengan mengartikulasikan misi dan dampak unik mereka, berkolaborasi dengan seluruh pemangku kepentingan, berinovasi dalam penceritaan dan komunikasi, memvalidasi pesan mereka melalui umpan balik audiens, dan mengkultivasi merek sebagai panduan internal yang hidup. Dengan menjembatani kesenjangan antara strategi dan desain, OMS dapat membangun merek yang tidak hanya menarik perhatian, tetapi juga menginspirasi kepercayaan, memicu loyalitas, dan memobilisasi dukungan untuk mencapai tujuan mulia mereka di tengah lanskap yang kompetitif.

This episode of Big Blend Radio's "Books & Authors" Show with Books Forward features Marty Neumeier, author of "Octavo." Follow the clues as a biophysics graduate and a retired art historian discover a mysterious manuscript in a Northern Italian town alongside works from Francesco Melzi, the last known apprentice to Leonardo da Vinci. "Octavo" is the story of da Vinci's obsession with a murder, the manuscript that proves it, and the two women racing to publish it before their violence-driven client finds them. The book comes out in October 2025, but you can get the installments "The Scarlett Files" on Substack, here: https://martyneumeier.substack.com/  Learn more about Marty and his life in design, here: https://www.martyneumeier.com/ 

In this episode, we dive deep into the value of failure—yes, failure—as a crucial tool for growth and success. Jay and Andrew discuss the difference between smart failure vs. dumb failure, how to create core values that actually shape company culture, and why embracing mistakes (the right way) leads to continuous improvement. They even have a friendly debate about how much pain you should feel when you (first) make a mistake.Book mentioned:The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design by Marty Neumeier 

Simple ways to improve the look of your creations without hiring a designer.My free Clients From Content: 1-Page Masterclass: https://fortheinterested.com/subscribe-yt/8 things you'll learn in this episode:02:00: How to audit your current designs in 10 minutes05:00: How to choose fonts and colors11:00: An unexpected place to find design inspiration17:00: The 3 biggest decisions to make when designing your brand25:00: The one mistake that will doom your rebrand30:00: How to design your brand when you're not sure what your brand even is32:00: How to decide when to rebrand37:00: A huge list of design tools to help youShow Notes: Tools: Design: https://www.figma.com/Canva: https://www.canva.com/Photos/Visuals: https://visualelectric.com/Fonts: https://fonts.google.com/ Fonts: https://fontshare.com/Fonts: https://www.myfonts.com/Fonts: https://www.latinotype.com/Colors: https://colorai.app/Colors: https://www.realtimecolors.com/Copy: https://www.typingmind.com/Moodboard: https://www.playbook.com/Mind Mapping: https://whimsical.com/Headshots/Photography: https://photoai.com/Newsletter: https://kit.com/Website Design: https://www.framer.com/Books: The Brand Gap by Marty Neumeier: https://amzn.to/4icgIIKBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald Miller: https://amzn.to/4ik2dT9Thinking with Type by Ellen Lupton: https://amzn.to/3VoGyiSTo Connect with Nate Kadlac: Website: https://www.kadlac.com/ To connect with Josh Spector:Newsletter: https://fortheinterested.com/subscribe/ Skill Sessions: https://joshspector.com/sessions/Consulting: https://joshspector.com/consulting/Twitter: https://twitter.com/jspectorApply to be a guest on the show: https://joshspector.com/questions/Intro Music Provided By Uppbeat

Marty Neumeier is as written many books on design and brand as one of the foremost thinkers on how to build a brand. His books include, The Brand Gap, Zag, The Designful Company, The 46 Rules of Genius and more. Do you have a brand or a logo? Listen to this discussion between host Bryan Elliott and Marty. Special Thanks to our Sponsor WHOOP!Use my special link and get a great deal on a new WHOOP 4.0.WEAR IT ANY-WEARComfortable enough to wear non-stop thanks to new, durable SuperKnit bands, but flexibly designed to be worn off your wrist in new WHOOP Body apparel.WAKE UP AT THE OPTIMAL TIMESet a haptic alarm that gently vibrates to wake you at the optimal time based on your sleep needs and cycles.MONITOR YOUR HEALTHA robust sensor suite allows you to monitor your key vital signs: Blood oxygen levels, skin temperature readings, and heart rate metrics.GET MORE ACCURATE DATA5 LEDs and 4 photodiodes capture your data more often than most wearables, providing best-in-class accuracy validated in lab studies and with third-party testing.Special Thanks to our Sponsor Inside Tracker!It's been about 7 years but feels like yesterday when I think about the time I was really struggling with health. All of a sudden I was getting serious headaches and didn't know why…My friend Rob Wolff who wrote the book Wired to Eat turned me on to InsideTracker but to be honest I didn't follow thru and spent the next 4 years trying to figure things out on my own by seeing over a dozen doctors and specialists. I probably wasted at least $20,000 in time and medical expenses with nothing to show for it. Earlier this year another friend suggested InsideTracker again and I signed up. It was so easy. A specialist came to my house to took my blood for a blood panel test that measured almost 50 health markers. About a week later I had a full report across all of the important categories.How much would you pay to have a roadmap to feeling your best? Well, promise InsiderTracker costs a lot less and I guarantee it will be one of the best investments you make for yourself. With annual fees starting at $150 this is a no-brainer. Just go to InsideTracker.com and give it a try.Support the show

In this episode of the Brand Design Masters podcast, host Phillip VanDusen welcomes Robert Smith, an internationally recognized branding expert, professor, and author. They discuss the importance of investing time in oneself rather than focusing on transient technical skills, emphasizing the value of creativity, peer interaction, and mental health. Robert shares insights from his latest book 'Stop Looking for Zebras', which guides creative professionals on achieving long-term career success. Key topics include the relevance of human-driven creativity in the face of AI advancements, the significance of networking and mentorship, and strategies for maintaining passion and confidence in the creative industry.#branddesign #creativecareers #creativity #graphicdesignEpisode Sponsored by: WIX STUDIO: https://wixstudio.comROBERT SMITH Book: "Stop Looking for Zebras": https://a.co/d/54KQRlPThinkSmith Website: https://www.think-smith.com/00:00 The Best Investment for Longevity in the Industry00:25 Introduction to the Brand Design Masters Podcast00:42 Meet Robert Smith: Branding Expert and Author01:50 The Journey of Writing 'Stop Looking for Zebras'03:49 Teaching Design: Beyond Technical Skills08:33 Addressing Self-Confidence in Creative Careers12:47 The Impact of AI and Automation on Design17:58 Strategies for Creative Professionals to Stand Out21:21 Marty Neumeier's Packaging Success22:32 The Reality Behind Rockstar Designers23:55 Investing in Yourself Post-COVID26:35 The Power of Mastermind Groups27:41 The Importance of Networking35:45 Recognizing Career Transformations37:06 Career Goals and Bear Traps40:28 Conclusion and Final Thoughts________________________________________WEBSITEhttps://www.philipvandusen.comBRAND•MUSE NEWSLETTER  https://www.philipvandusen.com/museCREATIVE PROFESSIONAL COACHINGhttps://philipvandusen.com/oneononeBRAND CONSULTINGhttps://philipvandusen.com/brand-consultingBRAND STRATEGY 101 COURSEhttps://philipvandusen.com/bs101YOUTUBEhttps://www.youtube.com/c/philipvandusen LINKEDINhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/philipvandusen/THREADShttps://www.threads.net/@philipvandusen FACEBOOKhttps://www.facebook.com/philipvandusen.agency/INSTAGRAMhttps://www.instagram.com/philipvandusen/____________________________________Philip VanDusen is a branding consultant and the owner of a brand strategy and design agency based in New Jersey. Philip is a highly accomplished creative executive and expert in brand strategy, graphic design, marketing and creative management. Philip provides design, branding, marketing, career and business advice to creative professionals, entrepreneurs and companies on building successful brands for themselves and the clients and customers they serve.

In a very special 50th episode, author, designer, and brand adviser Marty Neumeier joins Greg Daake to discuss the importance of prioritizing modesty over posturing.

Learn how to grow a personal brand with these tips! ******

Danielle spoke with Stephen Houraghan, brand strategist, consultant, CEO and Founder of Brand Master Academy and BrandBuildr.ai. He hosts The Brand Master Podcast, featuring guests like Seth Godin and Marty Neumeier.With a background in business and finance, he later gained qualifications in design and marketing, founding the Iconic Fox Agency, and offering brand strategy and creative services globally. Stephen has contributed to publications such as Hubspot, Marketo, Creative Bloq and has appeared as a guest on countless industry podcasts and summits.KEY TAKEAWAYSStephen talks about his early career in finance and stockbroking, moving into creating design and how he pivoted into branding. All of this experience has given him a great understanding of business and how to speak the right language to business owners.Artificial intelligence is already a big part of life and Stephen speaks about his AI-powered platform, BrandBuildr and how it streamlines the brand development process and enhances strategy outcomes.Stephen explains how the last four to five years have been spent on building the corporate brand of Brand Master Academy and how he became obsessed with the idea of being consumer driven and consumer led.BEST MOMENTS‘I didn't want to go back to a job, I wanted to work for myself. That led me down the road to asking, if there are all these other designers in this space, how can I convince my prospects to choose me over them? It's a fundamental question at the centre point of first positioning and then broader brand strategy that I didn't even know existed.'‘I knew I needed to get my ideas on my concepts out there and I struggled with the idea of, why would I put all of this in an article if people are just going to take it? It was a real struggle to overcome that mental challenge of look, this is how the industry works now, this is how the world works.'‘As we venture into the world of AI, that human connection and that ability to connect with your audience and to provide them that human guidance and that arm around their shoulder, that's going to become increasingly important in the coming years and it's a big part of what we do beyond the steps and the processes.'‘When we sit down with our clients, what ingredients we get is dependent on the questions we ask. The better the question, the better the ingredient. The better the ingredients, the better the outcome.'ABOUT THE HOST - DANIELLE CLARKEDanielle Clarke is a Brand Strategist and spends her time consulting and working with health and wellness business owners to help them attract and retain their ideal customers.GRAB YOU 3 ACTIONABLE STEPS FOR BRAND GROWTH: https://danielle-clarke.ck.page/b1043e5d05WORK WITH DANIELLE TO BUILD THE BRAND STRATEGIES YOUR BUSINESS NEEDS TO GROW: https://calendly.com/d/48p-6ck-vy4CONNECT WITH DANIELLE ON LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-clarke-brand-strategy-consultant/SUPPORT THE SHOW: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/danielleclarke This show was brought to you by: The Media Insiders Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Thought Leadership Leverage podcast, host Peter Winick sits down with Robert Hargrove, founder and CEO of Masterful Coaching, co-founder of the Harvard Leadership Project, and author of ten influential books, including "Masterful Coaching." This insightful discussion explores the evolving landscape of thought leadership, focusing on the shifting dynamics in publishing and the rise of social media. Robert shares his unique perspective on how publishing has transformed over the years. During a recent visit to a Barnes & Noble, he noticed that most books in business and politics were authored by thought leaders. However, when he browsed LinkedIn, he observed a wave of recycled content from decades ago, repackaged as something new. This led to a conversation about how thought leadership has moved from long-form content, such as books, to short-form content on social media. While social media provides rapid access to ideas, Robert and Peter discuss the significant difference in depth and quality between reading a book and scanning a LinkedIn post. Defining thought leadership, Robert describes it as presenting a big idea that is eye-opening, brain-tingling, and paradigm- shifting. He emphasizes that the idea doesn't need to be entirely original but should offer a new perspective or improve upon existing concepts. He uses Marty Neumeier's "Brand Flip" as an example of how traditional ideas can be approached in a fresh way.  The conversation delves into the nuances of thought leadership on social media, addressing the importance of civil discourse and respectful disagreement. Robert stresses that engaging with others' ideas and leaving thoughtful comments can foster a healthy exchange and build new relationships. He also discusses his journey into podcasting and the impact of verbal interactions on the audience, highlighting how even non-groundbreaking conversations can spark meaningful thoughts among listeners. Finally, Robert and Peter share their favorite podcasts and writers, such as Malcolm Gladwell and Adam Grant, comparing their unique styles in both book and podcast formats. Tune in to explore the evolution of thought leadership and gain insights into how to navigate and succeed in this changing  landscape. Three Key Takeaways: • Shift from Long-Form to Short-Form Thought Leadership: The landscape of thought leadership has shifted from long-form content, like books, to short-form content on social media platforms. While this change offers accessibility and immediacy, it can lead to a reduction in depth and quality. Robert Hargrove discusses how, in the past, a book was a hallmark of thought leadership, but today, many thought leaders focus on shorter, more digestible content. This shift requires a balanced approach to maintain quality while reaching a broader audience. • Redefining Thought Leadership: Thought leadership is not just about creating original ideas; it's about presenting concepts in a way that is eye-opening, paradigm-shifting, or improving upon existing ideas. Robert emphasizes that thought leadership can be delivered through various mediums, including speeches, podcasts, and social media, not just books. He cites Marty Neumeier's "Brand Flip" as an example of presenting traditional ideas with a fresh perspective, highlighting that thought leadership can be achieved without a book. •Civility and Respect in Social Media Discourse: The episode explores the dynamics of thought leadership on social media, where it can be challenging to maintain civility and respect in discussions. Robert suggests that engaging in respectful disagreement, seeking dialogue, and contributing thoughtful comments are crucial for meaningful exchanges. He underscores that these interactions can help build relationships and open doors to new audiences. This approach fosters a collaborative environment where different viewpoints are valued and respected. Whether you publish your content in a book, on social media, or other medium it has to be clear and engaging.  Peter Winick and the team at Thought Leadership leverage can help you develop a variety of material for any medium!

Tiago Faria –Digital Business Mentor in the “Help Industry”About meI help experts do the most fun marketing they'll ever do and attract the most presold leads they'll ever get. Oh, and by the way, I do it through podcast guesting.Target AudienceMy expertise primarily caters to coaches, consultants, service providers, or freelancers who rely on trust and expertise to sell high-ticket products or services.AchievementsOver my 15 years in the world of marketing and digital business, I have had the pleasure of:Working at Google's European headquarters in Dublin for 8 years, as a Google Ads specialist and consultant for some of the biggest companies in Europe and the Middle EastCompleted a 120 day challenge on YouTube in 2021, creating 120 videos in 120 consecutive days (this after interviewing more than 60 entrepreneurs and experts on my podcast, including Chris Do, Miles Beckler, Marty Neumeier, Mike Michalowicz, Blair Enns, Pia Silva, and others)Booked 67 podcasts in only 4 months, being featured as a guest on top 1-2% podcasts like Podcasting Your Global Career, Straight Talk No Sugar Added Podcast, and Marketing SpeakSuggested QuestionsWhy podcast guesting and not any other marketing method or media?How do I pitch myself to podcasts without sounding sleazy?I'm not sure I can be an interesting guest… is this really for me?How do I make sure I can convert listeners into clients?How does this integrate into my overall marketing strategy?How much time does it take to get results?Just for FunOutside of the world of online business, I wouldn't trade anything for time with my wife, Natasha, and my 3-year-old daughter, Kira. In my downtime, I am continually learning new things (mainly through audiobooks and podcasts). I've already traveled to more than 22% of the world (according to TripAdvisor...), and my next goal is to visit all of the 50 US states (9/50).Connect with Mehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/tiagofaria/The Doctor offers a complimentary strategy session at TheDoctorOfDigital@pm.me.https://swellai.com/?via=mick-the-doctor-of-digitalOn Track Ian Hunterhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1789523044?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_WOLGDN9AD6UWV1H4EG8OBurning America: In the Best Interest of the Children?Mick, The Doctor of Digital, Smith mick.smith@wsiworld.comBurning America: In the Best Interest of the Children?https://burning-america.comAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/G-Mick-Smith/e/B0B59X5R79Also at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and TargetLeave a message for The Doctor of Digital:https://podinbox.com/thedoctorofdigitalpodcastInstagram: burningamericacommunityPatreon burningamericacommunity:https://www.patreon.com/SmithConsultingWSITheDoctorofDigitalPodcastListen, subscribe, share, and positively review The Aftermath:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aftermath-the-epidemic-of-divorce-custody-and-healing/id1647001828Substack:https://micksmith.substack.com/Commercials Voice Talent ||https://www.spreaker.com/user/7768747/track-1-commercialsNarratives Voice Talenthttps://www.spreaker.com/user/7768747/track-2-narrativesDo you want a free competitive analysis for your business?https://marketing.wsiworld.com/free-competitive-analysis?utm_campaign=Mick_Smith_Podcast&utm_source=SpreakerMake an Appointment:https://www.picktime.com/TheDoctorOfDigitalBe sure to subscribe, like, & review The Doctor of Digital™ PodcastSign up for the Doctor Up Your Life courseFacebook || Instagram || Twitter || LinkedIn || YouTubehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/g-mick-smith-24495127Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-doctor-of-digital-gmick-smith-phd--1279468/support.

2:12 - Why she became a self-pay patient after two medical bankruptcies. 9:22 - How to navigate self-pay by removing fear-based thinking (I must have health insurance) and negotiate with every single healthcare service you pay for. 11:02 - The freedom that comes with leaving health insurance behind and embracing self pay.11:58 - How hospital foundations and patient pay advocates have emerged to embrace (somewhat) self-pay.12:49 - As a high earner, she does not use these foundations, but negotiates to pay her bill. She's also a member of Christian Healthcare Ministries (CHM),  a health cost sharing ministry. 13:20 - How CHM works - you become a member, pay a monthly fee. When a healthcare episode arises, you access CHM to get your healthcare bills paid, or shared. 15:14 - Sloane details the self-pay patient journey, how self-pay doesn't trickle through to all areas of the healthcare industry, and how to educate each sector about self-pay.22:50 - How to ask for the self-pay rate as a patient.25:00 - Where Sloane negotiated for care from one provider that was 75% less than what another provider quoted. 26:35 - How physicians are fairly  knowledgeable about self pay, but those in their business offices are not. They are trained to work with insurance. She packs her "patience and grace" to ask them to do something that is unusual. 29:25 - Tom pivots the conversation to how Sloan copes with a diagnosis of a terminal illness (at age 23). She doesn't let it define her, and looks at her condition as a chronic illness. 30:23 - How Sloane and Tom agree that it is the dying person's responsibility to prepare the living  for their own death. 34:14 - Why doctors ignore DNRs (hint: it has to do with litigation). 35:10 - Tom laments that modern Stoics don't talk suicide the way the original Stoics did - it is the last vestige of our wills. 37:50 - Sloane shares her grandmother's advice about friendship: you really only need 6 friends in life; 3 on one side of the casket, and 3 on the other. 38:10 - The extreme rarity of having one really close friend. 40:00 - Shifting to business, how she found herself in Nashville's health tech scene. Pre-pandemic, it was crowded, healthy and vibrant. Backed by Nashville and nationwide private equity and venture capital firms, and also supported by local institutions like the Nashville Entrepreneur Center, Nashville Healthcare Council, local family funds, and others, founders were getting a lot of support. 41:13 - When founder-led companies become responsible for creating shareholder value. The trajectory to create shareholder value is a big change, and she learned how sales and marketing played such a significant role in creating that value. 42:35 - Creation of her secret sauce: the strategy/methodology/execution of marketing to build to exit, and understanding how to make quick pivots as needed. 44:02 - What healthcare doesn't talk about post-pandemic: the rise in chronic disease, chronic care. Fortunately, many tech companies have come forward to begin to address this issue, but the exits are not as speedy as they once were.45:29 - The role of a strategic story in an exit, and how your fly paper is still whether or not you created shareholder value. But healthcare needs to re-think intellectual property.47:00 - The other way to re-frame and look at shareholder value: the customer relationships you create. If you can own a swim lane in the market, and really own it well, that has enormous value. 48:16 - How mergers often destroy value by devaluing the brand and the culture. 51:24 - Who shaped her marketing philosophy, Marty Neumeier, who was Steve Jobs' brand mentor. She believes, as Marty maintains, that a brand isn't what you say it is, it's what your customer says it is. 54:17 - How she loves founder-led companies, and how she gets so much more out of it than what she put into it. Her emotional paycheck gets cashed every time she sees someone get a check they never thought they would get.      

Quick—what's your personal brand? Don't worry if you don't know (well, maybe worry a little) because in this Silver Dollar episode of Stay Paid, we're explaining not only what a personal brand is but also how you can strategically build one that inspires trust and loyalty. If you do know yours, are you sure it's what you think it is? Join us to understand the nature of a personal brand and how an unmanaged one can silently destroy your business, discover a powerful exercise that will clarify your unique value proposition into a single, compelling sentence, and get three resources you can leverage to enhance and promote your professional identity.

Danielle spoke with Andy Starr, Managing partner of Level C, an education program teaching principles of modern brand to business professionals, which he co-founded with international brand expert and author Marty Neumeier. Andy helps clients outmanoeuvre competition and conditions in their markets, and make marketing, advertising & PR content work better, land stronger, and drive real results.KEY TAKEAWAYSDisruption is something that Andy is really passionate about so he and Danielle talked about what this really means and why it's so important.Andy explained to Danielle how his collaboration with Marty Neumeier began and how Level C originated from his personal circumstances at the time.Branding hasn't always been Andy's thing. He's a trained musician, majored in English Literature, worked in finance and studied law before coming to the world of brand.Andy spoke about how his branding classes with Marty work, why they are different from traditional teaching and how they teach you how to think about brand.BEST MOMENTS‘These days, if you're a brand, if you're a business and you're trying to stand out and you think that just being different will get you there, we make an argument that it won't, that it's not enough'.‘Creative thinking, strategic thinking, design thinking - more and more so called experts and coaches and mentors out there, they've been doing the whole how to do thing - how to do this, how to use this template. More and more of them have been trying to copy us now and it's kind of weird because they end up almost completely contradicting what they were doing just a couple of years ago'‘I won't work with anyone now who won't acknowledge that this is what I'm doing, who won't allow me to have the opportunity to teach them how to be a great client, teach them where I'm coming from right now'.‘We believe that creativity is more valuable in problem solving than just being more productive, but it needs more people who are able to think about what they do before they do it, while they do it, and after they do it'.ABOUT THE HOST - DANIELLE CLARKEDanielle Clarke is a Brand Strategist and University Lecturer. She spends her time consulting and working with health and wellness business owners to help them attract and retain their ideal customers.GRAB YOU 3 ACTIONABLE STEPS FOR BRAND GROWTH: https://danielle-clarke.ck.page/b1043e5d05WORK WITH DANIELLE TO BUILD THE BRAND STRATEGIES YOUR BUSINESS NEEDS TO GROW: https://calendly.com/d/48p-6ck-vy4CONNECT WITH DANIELLE ON LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-clarke-brand-strategy-consultant/SUPPORT THE SHOW: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/danielleclarke This show was brought to you by: The Media Insiders Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tiago Faria –Digital Business Mentor in the Help IndustryAbout meI'm a business mentor in the “Help Industry” with a unique "Anti-Marketing" approach. After working at the EU headquarters of Google for 8 years, I have been simplifying marketing and business to its core, and I truly believe you already have everything you need in your world to grow a sustainable and fun business. Target AudienceMy expertise primarily caters to entrepreneurs who want to help people online, and solve problems for which these people are willing to pay a premium to solve. I understand the challenges they face every day in finding these people online, and I offer easy-to-implement solutions, using only what they already have in their world.AchievementsOver my 14 years in the world of marketing and digital business, I have had the pleasure of:Having helped hundreds of Portuguese (and recently international) entrepreneurs through my courses, workshops and programs since 2020Working at Google's European headquarters in Dublin for 8 years, as a Google Ads specialist and consultant for some of the biggest companies in Europe and the Middle EastCompleted a 120 day challenge in YouTube in 2021, creating 120 videos in 120 consecutive days (this after interviewing more than 60 entrepreneurs and experts on my podcast, including Chris Do, Miles Beckler, Marty Neumeier, Mike Michalowicz, Blair Enns, Pia Silva, and others)Just for FunOutside of the world of online business, I wouldn't trade anything for time with my wife, Natasha, and my 3-year-old daughter, Kira. In my downtime I am continually learning new things (mainly through audiobooks and podcasts). I've already traveled to more than 22% of the world (according to TripAdvisor...), and my next goal is to visit all of the 50 US states (9/50).Connect with Mehttps://tiagofaria.pt/https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiagofaria/https://www.facebook.com/tiagofariapontoptThe Doctor offers a complimentary website analysis, or a custom software open door session with Amplifi Labs: mick.smith@amplifilabs.com.https://swellai.com/?via=mick-the-doctor-of-digitalOn Track Ian Hunterhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/1789523044?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_WOLGDN9AD6UWV1H4EG8OBurning America: In the Best Interest of the Children?Mick, The Doctor of Digital, Smith mick.smith@wsiworld.comBurning America: In the Best Interest of the Children?https://burning-america.comAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/G-Mick-Smith/e/B0B59X5R79Also at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and TargetLeave a message for The Doctor of Digital:https://podinbox.com/thedoctorofdigitalpodcastInstagram: burningamericacommunityPatreon burningamericacommunity:https://www.patreon.com/SmithConsultingWSITheDoctorofDigitalPodcastListen, subscribe, share, and positively review The Aftermath:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-aftermath-the-epidemic-of-divorce-custody-and-healing/id1647001828Substack:https://micksmith.substack.com/Commercials Voice Talent ||https://www.spreaker.com/user/7768747/track-1-commercialsNarratives Voice Talenthttps://www.spreaker.com/user/7768747/track-2-narrativesDo you want a free competitive analysis for your business?https://marketing.wsiworld.com/free-competitive-analysis?utm_campaign=Mick_Smith_Podcast&utm_source=SpreakerMake an Appointment:https://www.picktime.com/TheDoctorOfDigitalBe sure to subscribe, like, & review The Doctor of Digital™ PodcastSign up for the Doctor Up Your Life courseFacebook || Instagram || Twitter || LinkedIn || YouTubehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/g-mick-smith-24495127Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-doctor-of-digital-gmick-smith-phd--1279468/support.

In this episode, Sean chats with Chris Do about genius personal branding tips! ****** Join us for the #1 video marketing conference in the US for entrepreneurs

Jay and Andrew talk about rigging, how money eases the way, making our environment serve us, relationships vs profit, establishing value through the right comparison, and much more.Books mentioned:Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense by Rory Sutherland.The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design by Marty Neumeier.New Manufacturing Challenge: Techniques for Continuous Improvement by Kiyoshi Suzaki.

Minter Dialogue with Marty Neumeier To start off this new year, and just before I get back into the swing of brand new episodes for 2024, I wanted to re-release this wonderful conversation with Marty Neumeier (MDE314). Where so many people are needing to have a sense of belonging and find meaningfulness, working for a meaningful brand is one way to find fulfilment. Marty is a world recognised expert on branding, best-selling author of books such as The Brand Gap, The Brand Flip and MetaSkills. At the time of recording this interview, he had recently published a ‘business thriller' called, "Scramble, How agile strategy can build epic brands in record time." He's also director and CEO of the Liquid branding agency. In this conversation with Marty, we talked about the importance of having a designer mindset in business and the challenge of building a superior brand in today's tech-infused world. If you've got comments or questions you'd like to see answered, send your email or audio file to nminterdial@gmail.com; or you can find the show notes and comment on minterdial.com. If you liked the podcast, please take a moment to go over to Apple Podcasts or your favourite podcast channel, to rate/review the show. Otherwise, you can find me @mdial on Twitter.

In this episode, I had the privilege of sitting down with the exceptional Craig Martin, a renowned business coach and serial entrepreneur. We delved deep into the valuable insights and strategies he's accrued from transitioning into the coaching world and guiding entrepreneurs to success. We tackle Craig's coaching approach, emphasizing the need to dive deep into business challenges. We explore the vital role of branding and the process of developing tailored frameworks for clients. The conversation branches into the significance of discipline, the essence of seeking valuable information, branding's emotional aspect, and the evolving landscape with the introduction of AI. A bit about Craig:Serial entrepreneur, business coach/consultant, and recovering advertising executive, helping entrepreneurs build 7+ figure businesses and exit to freedom for the past two decades. Now on a mission to help 1 million entrepreneurs make an impact. Where to find Craig:https://acclimatedminds.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/craig-martin-b068824b/ Other Links: https://www.instagram.com/iamcraigmartin/ Books Mentioned: The E Myth by Michael E. Gerber Good to Great by Jim Collins Brand Flip by Marty Neumeier The Brand Gap by Marty Neumeier

Danielle interviewed Ezequiel Abramzon, is a global creative leader and brand strategy consultant with 30+ years of experience in creativity, branding, innovation and entrepreneurship. Ezequiel is founder of Lalo, which helps take startups with brand strategy. They talk about how branding is a key part of a startup's birth.Ezequiel became a global creative leader while working as an executive at The Walt Disney Company for 22 years, where he helped develop brands such as Disney, Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar in Latin America and Europe. After many years of living a corporate life, Ezequiel is back in the independent world to help transform your business through brand building.KEY TAKEAWAYSEzequiel was always a fan of Disney and told his teachers at high school he would work there one day. When Ezequiel joined Disney he was responsible for creative marketing. From this he led hundreds of people and built 8 figure businesses within Disney where he found himself interacting with entrepreneurs, which led to the next phase of his career. He has completed countless trainings on creativity, innovation and branding, including Brand Architect certification with Marty Neumeier's Level C.Ezequiel knew that when his journey with Disney came to an end he would either be an entrepreneur or work with entrepreneurs.Having a brand strategy helps startup's navigate the early part of their journey and marry it with the long term perspective for their company. Ezequiel believes that startup B2B's can learn so much from long established B2C brands. They may be different on the surface but the essence is very similar. BEST MOMENTSDiscussing how Lalo helps entrepreneurs - ‘I always say I'm in the business of clarity and confidence. Strategic clarity leads to operational confidence. Because if you are strategically clear you know who you are and what you need to mean to people”‘Unless you have hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars you can't rush brand. If you are starting your company unless you have all that power you have to trust time'‘Demand excellence in everything you do. Quality on your onboarding, the product and your relationships. Understand what quality means for your business and customer'.‘Having no budget or lack of resources is not an excuse for not pursuing greater quality. If your website looks crappy it's not because you don't have money, it's because you didn't figure out how to do it right'.Ezequiel LinkedIn Twitter InstagramABOUT THE HOST - DANIELLE CLARKEDanielle Clarke is a Brand Strategist and University Lecturer. She spends her time working with health and wellness business owners to help them attract their ideal customers.GRAB YOU FREE E-BOOK: https://danielle-clarke.ck.page/b1043e5d05CONNECT WITH DANIELLE ON LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-clarke-brand-strategy-consultant/This show was brought to you by The Media Insiders Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Marty Neumeier is someone who literally wrote the book on branding, in fact, he's written numerous books about it. He is an author, designer, and brand adviser whose mission is to bring the principles and processes of design to business. He has worked closely with innovative companies such as Apple, Netscape, Sun Microsystems, HP, Adobe, Google, and Microsoft to help advance their brands and cultures. Today he serves as Director of Transformation for Liquid Agency in Silicon Valley, and travels extensively as a workshop leader and speaker on the topics of design, brand, and innovation.

What is the importance of branding? Whether you're a solopreneur or part of a design firm, having a brand makes you memorable. But good branding doesn't happen by throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks—it's strategic and thoughtful. My friend and branding expert, Corey Fuller, is sharing that with us on this episode! We touched on everything from naming a business to finding the perfect typography. This conversation is an incredible resource for anyone looking to brand a new business or rebrand an existing one. In this episode, you will be able to:Uncover the most critical components of branding.Learn the business branding mistakes you must avoid!Discover the importance of branding whether you're a solopreneur or part of a firm.Full Show Notes Here

Wes Henstock is the Hip-hop brand strategist. Coming up in the world of fashion and music, he's worked with folks like Damon John, and brands like Armani Exchange, DKNY, and Tommy Hilfiger. Wes is a Founder and CEO of Confid3ntial, a brand design agency and he is also an instructor at Level C, a brand strategy educational platform from the legendary Marty Neumeier.In this episode, we dive into his journey and key pieces of wisdom for anyone interested in the world of brand. WARNING: Explicit, entertaining, and educationalIn this episode:The importance of strategy in the creative processThe power of strategy show & tellMisconceptions about brand strategy Workshops are critical to the alignment of the componyTips on running an amazing workshop The Obituary TechniqueThe purpose of having a purposeHow strategy should be like Hip-HopChallenges in the healthcare industryWork with Howie:Healthy Brand ConsultingConnect with Howie: LinkedIn TwitterInstagramTikTokHow I can Help You Boost your personal brand & charisma: Subscribe to Legend Letters Download free brand strategy guides 1:1 Personal brand coaching

Benj Miller chats with marketing legend, author and co-founder of Level C, Marty Neumeier. In this episode they discuss: - The definition of growth: When growth becomes the enemy - The role of business in a divided society - The meaning of brands when tribal beliefs become a substitute for truth This episode is sponsored by The 261.  Start your day with clarity! As leaders, we have countless things on our mind: things we need to do, things we're not doing, problems we need to solve, new exciting ideas––all jotted down in that worn out mental notebook we keep in our heads.  But, sometimes leaders and entrepreneurs simply need to step away from the mental clutter––sometimes we don't need the notebook, we just need a sticky note––a simple reminder along the way to help us gain clarity and control of our business.  That's why we created a new FREE resource called The 261. As you may know, there are 261 work days in the calendar year. So, we have mapped out the entire year with daily micro thoughts and micro actions––sticky notes––to help keep the ball moving forward in your personal life as a leader and for the sake of your business. If you want to start your day with clarity and receive a short, helpful thought to jumpstart your leadership, please go to The261.com and sign up! References: MartyNeumeier.com

Welcome to the special 100th edition of the Brand Design Masters Podcast! We have to celebrate our wins, and reaching the 100th episode of a podcast is a huge win. It's been a great ride so far and we would never have been this successful if it wasn't for our cavalcade of amazing guests. Folks like Chris Do, Chris Ducker, Roberto Blake, Marty Neumeier, Mauro Porcini, Michael Janda, Amy London and many, many more. In this episode I discuss:•    What's worked in the podcast so far•    What hasn't worked so well, and some lessons learned•    How the BDM podcast format has evolved over time and why•    What we have planned for the future•    Hurdles and barriers I have faced in my career•    A key “unlock” that made building my personal brand and business faster and easier•    7 “Unlock Themes” of barriers that can be broken through via participating in a mastermind group experience•    The power of mastermind groups•    Introducing BONFIRE a mastermind community for established creative professionals ____________________________ Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, use the following links for more of my work and some valuable resources to get you started on your branding initiatives. Until the next episode!  WEBSITE:http://www.philipvandusen.com   THE BRAND•MUSE NEWSLETTER:  http://www.philipvandusen.com/muse   THE BRAND DESIGN MASTERS FACEBOOK GROUP:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/branddesignmasters/  YOUTUBE CHANNEL:http://www.youtube.com/c/PhilipVanDusen   TWITTER:https://twitter.com/philipvandusen   PINTEREST:https://www.pinterest.com/philipvandusen   FACEBOOK:https://www.facebook.com/verhaalbranddesign  BRAND STRATEGY 101 COURSE:https://philipvandusen.com/bs101 Affiliate Partners: Bring Your Own Laptop - Adobe Training with Daniel Scotthttps://www.byol.me/philip   InVideohttps://bdmpodcast.com/invideoDiscount Code: "PHILIP50" Tubebuddyhttps://wwwtubebuddy.com/philipvandusen   ____________________________ The Brand Design Masters Podcast targets entrepreneurs, designers, creative professionals and anyone interested in brand strategy, business planning, graphic design, personal branding, trends and marketing. Philip VanDusen is the owner of Verhaal Brand Design, a brand strategy and design agency based in New Jersey. Philip is a highly accomplished creative executive and expert in brand strategy, graphic design, marketing and creative management. Philip provides design, branding, marketing, career and business advice to creative professionals, entrepreneurs and companies on building successful brands for themselves and the clients and customers they serve.

Branding master Marty Neumeier returns and brings with him his brand education partner in crime, Andy Starr. Marty and Andy are co-founders of Level C, the world's most visionary brand education program. Creative Shit Show co-hosts and branding strategists Karen Larson and Justin Ahrens chat with the pair about all things brand and the Level C program, plus share other personal stories from their decades in design. Have a listen.

Today we're talking to Stephen Houraghan. Stephen is a freelancer turned brand strategist and the founder of Brand Master Academy where he helps freelancers evolve into brand strategists using his proven system. His program has helped over 20,000+ students including clients that have gone from charging just a few thousand dollars to winning projects worth over $60,000. Stephen's unconventional approach has transformed struggling agencies into highly paid and sought-after brands.On his ‘Brand Master' podcast, Stephen has interviewed leaders in the branding industry including Sunny Bonnell, Douglass Davis, Michael Janda, and Marty Neumeier.In this episode we dive deep into how to evolve from freelancer to brand strategist, what brand strategy even means, why its important for businesses to invest in brand strategy, and much more. Whether you're already a brand strategist or you don't know what brand strategy even means, this episode is a must listen. Key Lessons:When it comes to positioning yourself as a brand strategist on social media, you can't be talking about pixels and websites, you have to understand the craft, change the conversations you have with clients, and get into the nitty gritty of brand strategy on your social media The most fundamental brand strategy questions are: 1. Who are we for and 2. Why should they chose us over our competitors. When you're building a brand, take the time get clear on your brand's answers to these questions so you can communicate your message properly to your prospects. Brand Master Academy Website: https://brandmasteracademy.com/Brand Master Academy YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/@BrandMasterAcademy

Legendary branding master Marty Neumeier joins the Creative Shit Show to share stories from his fantastic career and speak to his current mission to continue to bring the conversation about branding and branders to the forefront of the C suite and businesses worldwide. From humble beginnings to working with iconic brands like Apple, Netscape, HP, Adobe, and Google, this best-selling author has a lot of stories to tell, and we wanted to hear all of them. We think you will too. Grab a cocktail, and have a listen.

Learn how to find your key differentiator with 26 differentiation strategy examples to inspire your positioning strategy.

This episode was so wonderful to listen back to! We hope you enjoy. We will be back with Season 7 on January 24th!Brand strategy is the foundation upon which meaningful brand identity design lives. It's important for brand designers to understand the "why" behind brand strategy so they can use it to improve their design work and sell it to their clients as a package with design or standalone service.Today Jen chats with Melinda Livsey all about Brand Strategy. Melinda is a brand strategist and online educator from Southern California. She currently helps graphic designers become brand strategists so they can develop entire directions and personalities of brands. Her courses Brand Strategy Bootcamp and How to Sell Brand Strategy can be found at https://www.marksandmaker.com.Links Mentioned:Melinda's videos on The Futur's YouTube channelMelinda's websiteMelinda's course, Brand Strategy BootcampMelinda's Brand Strategy Resources"The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design" by Marty Neumeier"You Are A Badass at Making Money: Master the Mindset of Wealth" by Jen SinceroSpecial thanks to our producer Jon from Wayfare Recording Co.Connect With Us:Our Free Facebook CommunityOur WebsiteOur Resources PagePodcast InstagramSupport us on PatreonOur podcast disclaimer can be found by visiting:www.betterbranddesigner.com/disclaimer

Summary:This week on How To Win: Brian Bourque, SVP of Marketing at SmartAsset, where they've grown a lead generation business from $0 to $100M+ in revenue primarily through paid acquisition marketing and SEO. Brian has a ton of experience leading profitable paid acquisition teams in quantitative, direct-response marketing businesses. He's an advocate of using behavioral psychology, tech, data, and creativity to find exciting, new approaches to business. In this episode, Brian breaks down six important lessons he's learned throughout his career. We discuss why tactics aren't strategy, why the internet is bigger than you think, and, for lesson one, why scaling is about realizing where the leverage lies in each part of your company. I give my thoughts on what a good strategy looks like, the concept of pattern interrupt, and why if they 'zig', you should 'zag'.Key Points: Lesson One - Scaling is about realizing where the leverage lies in each part of your company (01:17) How do you find out which points of leverage are the best? (02:51) I weigh in on the overuse of the term 'scaling' (05:15) Lesson Two - Tactics are not the same as strategy (05:53) I talk about the differences between tactics and strategy with a quote from author Richard P. Rumelt (08:15) Lesson Three - There is value in asking, "What would need to be true to achieve X?" (09:42) I give my thoughts on finding your way to 'X' with a quote from author Roger Martin (12:08) I recall a story from Matt Epstein, former VP of Marketing at Zenefits, about impossible goals with a quote from Matt (14:07) Lesson Four - The internet is larger than you think (15:44) Lesson Five - At scale, everyone is a competitor (18:09) I discuss the concept of pattern interrupt with a quote from Mutiny's Jaleh Rezaei (20:41) Lesson Six - When they 'zig', you 'zag' (22:11) I explain why you should always 'zag' with a quote from author Marty Neumeier (22:55) Wrap up (24:40) Mentioned:Brian Bourque LinkedInBrian Bourque TwitterBrian Bourque's NewsletterRichard P. Rumelt 's Good Strategy Bad Strategy - The Difference and Why It MattersRoger Martin's A New Way To ThinkMatt Epstein LinkedInContent, community, and customer acquisition with Mutiny's Jaleh RezaeiMarty Neumeier's ZAGMy Links:TwitterLinkedInWebsiteWynterSpeeroCXL

On this episode I chatted with Sarah Sears. Sarah, founder and principal of S Design Inc., is an award-winning branding and design professional and AIGA Fellow. Sears  speaks at local and regional events effusing and evangelizing about how branding, design and marketing are catalysts for business and organizational growth. Most recently, Sarah studied with international branding expert Marty Neumeier, earning the Brand Strategist and Brand Specialist Level C Certifications. Sarah led the visual identity team of 25 talented designers through the process of creating the new Oklahoma logo and supporting visual design elements. Her work is an exercise in restrained beauty, with form hot on the heels of function. Sarah's Business www.sdesigninc.com  This episode is presented by the following sponsors. The Oklahoma Hall of Fame at the Gaylord-Pickens Museum telling Oklahoma's story through its people since 1927. For more information on the Oklahoma Hall of Fame go to www.oklahomahof.com and for daily updates go to www.instagram.com/oklahomahof. The Chickasaw Nation is economically strong, culturally vibrant and full of energetic people dedicated to the preservation of family, community and heritage. www.chickasaw.net 988Okla The Oklahoma 988 Mental Health Lifelife. 988 is the direct, three-digit lifeline that connects you with trained behavioral health professionals that can get all Oklahomans the help they need. Learn more by visiting www.988oklahoma.com Bedford Camera & Video use promo code "THISISOK" for 5% off your purchase and shop www.bedfordsokc.com #thisisoklahoma

In this episode, we chat with Chris Do, Founder, and CEO of The Futur, to talk about leveling up your personal brand and building influence. Chris unpacks what it takes to build a strong and impactful brand that resonates with your audience.  TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES: [00:00] - Personal Brand & Building Influence with Chris Do, CEO of The Futur [00:20] - Marty Neumeier's definition of branding: a gut feeling that a person has about a product, service, or organization. [02:20] - Understanding what constitutes a strong brand. [04:02] - Why everyone has an unintentional personal brand and how to build yours intentionally.  [06:33] - Brand through the lens of POP culture [08:49] - You need to master this if you want to build a strong PERSONAL BRAND [10:58] - Why Narrative, Impression and Storytelling is important for building your brand   Leave Some Feedback:   What should I talk about next? Who should I interview? Please let me know on Twitter or in the comments below. Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review here Subscribe to Leveling Up on iTunes Get the non-iTunes RSS Feed   Connect with Eric Siu:    Growth Everywhere Single Grain Leveling Up Eric Siu on Twitter Eric Siu on Instagram

In episode #2250, we chat with Chris Do, Founder, and CEO of The Futur, to talk about leveling up your personal brand and building influence. Chris unpacks what it takes to build a strong and impactful brand that resonates with your audience, why branding is all about impression management, and how you can elevate your personal brand through intentional work. For top tips and profound insights on how to master your branding strategy, make sure you press play now! TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES: [00:25] Today's topic: Leveling Up Your Personal Brand & Building Influence. [00:35] Get to know our guest, Chris Do, a loud introvert and recovering graphic designer! [00:58] Why Chris identifies as a teacher, not an influencer. [02:22] How Chris started making YouTube content and how the decision changed his career. [03:34] Marty Neumeier's definition of branding: a gut feeling that a person has about a product, service, or organization. [05:13] Understanding what constitutes a strong brand. [07:19] Why everyone has an unintentional personal brand and how to build yours intentionally.  [09:37] That's it for today! Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast! [09:39] Visit https://live.levelingup.com for information on our Private Founders Events! [10:08] Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more!   Links Mentioned in Today's Episode:   Chris Do on LinkedIn The Futur   The Brand Gap: How to Bridge the Distance Between Business Strategy and Design   Subscribe to our premium podcast (with tons of goodies!): https://www.marketingschool.io/pro   Leave Some Feedback:     What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.     Connect with Us:    Neilpatel.com Quick Sprout  Growth Everywhere Single Grain Twitter @neilpatel  Twitter @ericosiu

“The businesses that generally fail are where the founder says they have a backup plan, like a job. My mentality was if it failed, I would start another business. So I may as well make this one work.” In this episode of The Inner Chief podcast, we speak to footwear brand trailblazer, Vince Lebon, the CEO and Founder of Rollie Nation, on streamlining systems, scaling a business and operating rhythm.

Notes from today's Service Business Mastery podcast episode: What is a BRAND? Let's peel back the o”g”nion Boils down to your reputation Perception in the client's mind Impact on the market It's really about YOUR reputation Going above and beyond is a basic foundation for building a great brand You can not change your visual Your Brand is like an iceberg We can all see the tip Below the surface, there is so much more going on… What questions should we ask our agency when we are looking to rebrand? They should be asking customer-centric questions The logo isn't the first thing they should be looking at… Focus on your customer If you try to be something to everyone, you become nothing to everyone… Brand equity is crazy valuable. START with strategy…this will make the long-term branding effectiveness 26:20 - be the little voice in the client's mind when they think about a niche area… Look at what the competition is NOT saying, and build your position to solve that issue… 29.00 - You DON'T have to turn away clients that don't fit into your brand strategy while you're still growing. 33:29 - branding is the fuel for your marketing… MelissaData - https://www.melissa.com/  Brandmasteracademy.com/brand-strategy-blueprint/ Brand Master Academy on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/BrandMasterAcademy    A little more from Stephen: IT'S TIME TO RETHINK BRANDING  Most talented brand builders are not getting paid enough and compete with cheap, low-quality, inexperienced operators.  It's an issue that has devastated the industry.  Thankfully, Stephen has come up with the solution by creating a proven system that provides the keys to a structured framework that helps freelancers and agencies evolve into brand strategists.  His program has helped over 20,000+ students, including clients that have gone from charging just a few thousand dollars to winning projects worth over $60,000. Stephen's unconventional approach has transformed struggling agencies into highly paid and sought-after brands.  On his ‘Brand Master' podcast, Stephen has interviewed leaders in the branding industry, including Marty Neumeier, Douglass Davis, Michael Janda, and Sunny Bonnell.  Stephen is on a mission to revolutionize the way branding professionals operate. Because branding is not about pixels and logos.

With all the noise, how can you stand out online? It may seem hard, but it doesn't have to be. Here are 6 ways you can differentiate yourself to stand out online by simply sharing important factors about your brand and business. Your personal brand is how you connect with others online If you want to stand out online, start by creating a personal brand. A personal brand is what your audience thinks, says, and feels about you. In other words, the perception others have of you. Your story, everything about your journey, the experiences you've had, and the education, formal and informal, have led you right where you are today. Each one of these things helps to differentiate you from everyone else in your area of expertise. This list of experiences includes the good, bad, and ugly. The successes alongside the mistakes and failures. In fact, it is often the mistakes and failures that taught you the most and can help you stand out online and truly resonate with your audience. Your personal brand must be compelling to stand out online Be compelling. The more compelling you are, the better chance you have to stand out online. How can you be compelling when there are so many others in your niche?  Especially if you are a coach or a photographer. When scrolling on Instagram it seems as though there are way too many of each to be able to be noticed as an expert. But this is where your unique differences and experiences come into play. Compelling means: to evoke interest, attention, or admiration in a powerfully irresistible way. The more compelling you are through your personal branding efforts, the more you will differentiate yourself in your area of expertise. The more you differentiate yourself, the more you will stand out online. If you are sitting there thinking that there is nothing compelling about you, think again! An Example of  Differentiating We all have a compelling story or at least compelling parts in our journeys. Our stories of who we are, what we do, why we do it, and how we got here differentiate us and compel others to connect with us, like us and trust us. Every unique thing about you is part of your compelling story. If you are a business coach, you might focus on mindset.   That's fantastic, everyone needs help with mindset.   But why do YOU focus on mindset? What things in your journey led you to focus on the importance of mindset? The answer to that question is the thing that will compel someone to connect with you and eventually purchase from you. Differentiation is Zigging When Everyone Else is Zagging Differentiating also goes beyond being different within your niche. It's about disrupting your industry by zigging when everyone else is zagging. As a reference, Marty Neumeier wrote a book called Zag, which demonstrates this concept. Thinking outside of the box becomes critical.  If 10 people are mindset coaches and you are one of them, how can you differentiate yourself in that space?  It's a must-do exercise if you want to stand out online from others in the professional space you are in. Here's a simple exercise for you. Make a list of ways that your work is different or unique. Sticking with the mindset coach as an example, perhaps you've created a reverse thinking model. Or maybe you've developed a strategy for transforming negative thoughts into positive action. You might focus on mindset but also focus on business strategic action. Could it be that your approach is so unique that your clients are experiencing more positive results than you've ever seen or read about before? If yes, then you are doing something unique that differentiates you in the area of mindset coaching. But that isn't quite enough when we talk about personal branding and differentiating yourself to stand out online. Let's dive a little deeper. What is personal branding and how can it help you stand out online? Personal branding is your efforts to show your audience how you are unique and what differentiates you from everyone else. What parts of your story, your journey, and your experiences make you unique? How can you share those details to help you stand out online from everyone else in your area of expertise? You created your business for a reason. Maybe you felt a calling. Or, maybe you were told that you were good at something and decided to start a business because you want to help people by sharing the skills you have. No matter which it is, it is important to tell the world what makes you so great at what you do. Every part of your journey differentiates you. Even if someone else had the same experience as you, their perception of the experience and the impact the experience had on them is different than what you perceived and experienced. Your perception and the impact the experience had on you is how you have garnered the knowledge that you now use to help others, those people who are on a similar journey a little bit behind you. Below is a list of items that you can use as a baseline for differentiating your personal brand and business to help you stand out online. Keep in mind that you have several options for sharing the information that differentiates you. Start with your website. Your copy should include details that outline your journey and how you've garnered your expertise. Write blog posts that include details about your journey. Repurpose this content for social media, email marketing campaigns, and Pinterest posts. Tell the world about what makes you unique so that they can understand why they should trust you and purchase from you. 6 ways you can and should differentiate yourself to stand out online Services The reason you provide the service(s) that you provide is because of the experiences that have led you to this part of your journey. Even if you offer the same or similar services as someone else, how you offer your service(s) is unique to you. Likewise, the delivery of your service(s) is unique to you. Perhaps the length of time you provide your service is unique to you. Everything about the way you provide your service was designed by you based on your life experiences and what you have learned and can now share with your clients. Think about the mindset coach who also combines strategy. Customers Your soulmate clients are unique to you. Define the people you want to work with. You have gifts that are meant to serve a certain group of people. These people are probably you, a few short years ago. Likewise, you only want to work with certain people, people that are aligned with your values and you know that working with them will fulfill you.   Who are they?  Create your content for those people specifically and this will differentiate you as the person who works for/with those select people. If you are struggling with defining your soulmate clients, think about who asks if they can pick your brain? Similarly, look around to see who thinks you're great and is already consuming your content and hanging on every word you say. These questions will give you some insight, at least a starting point, as to who your soulmate clients are. Location Do you work only in your geographical area or do you work with clients across the continental United States or even internationally? If you only work locally, is there direct competition? If yes, are there opportunities for collaboration or a referral program? Or, maybe branch out with your location to reach a larger local audience and to limit the direct competition. Note, I don't like to think of it as competition because there is always enough work for everyone. However, whether someone chooses to work with you or someone else will depend on the job you do to differentiate yourself to stand out online where people are searching and consuming. Speed and Ease Is it easy to work with you? How fast can people schedule a discovery call with you? Or, how fast will your clients see the result they are looking for?  Can people get on your calendar or do you have a waitlist? There is no right or wrong answer.  Both can be right depending on who your ideal client is.  In fact, sometimes when people have to wait to work with you, it means you have created demand and you are attracting your soulmate clients. Likewise, is your onboarding process simple? Is it automated so that you can quickly onboard clients and get paid? Do you offer a payment plan? These are questions you can answer upfront or when on a discovery call to help differentiate your brand. Your reasons for your onboarding process are specific to your experiences and how you have perceived them and in turn, want to influence the experience your clients have with you. Pricing Higher prices – if your prices are higher, you won't be for everyone. You can differentiate yourself as the best in a class by having higher prices and great testimonials and references. Lower prices – warning! Don't be undersold.  If you have lower prices you will attract a different clientele than if your prices are the highest in the industry.  Don't undercut your prices so much that you start hating your work and become resentful of people who are only willing to pay the low price you set but expect the same level of service as someone paying much more. You have to know your value and stick to it, but if you believe your prices should be the lowest in the category, be sure you are still providing quality so that the perception of you is great value for the price, not only the lowest price. Quality This refers back to results and the overall experience your clients have when working with you. How impactful are the results you are achieving for your clients? The mindset and strategy coach has clients that are achieving $10K months within the first month of working together, while the coach who only works on mindset has clients who are achieving $2K months within the first month of working together. Your brand prestige is related to both price and quality and the two should be aligned with each other, but most importantly with your values as a personal brand. You can differentiate yourself by the results you are achieving for yourself and your clients. But, remember that your clients will become your greatest marketing tool. If they receive quality service and great results from you, they will boast about you to their friends, colleagues, and family. This is fabulous, but if you are attracting people who only want to pay low dollars and yet you are providing high-quality service you will burn out quickly because those are the type of clients your happy clients will be sending your way. As you map out your plan for differentiating yourself to stand out online, be mindful of all of the above as they are ultimately interwoven. Disrupt Your Niche Here's something I learned in my brand specialist certification training. The more you make assumptions about your industry and disrupt them, the more you will differentiate yourself. Keep in mind that your goal is to differentiate yourself in a way that provides a positive perception for those who are in your ideal audience. You want to differentiate yourself in a way that converts your ideal audience to raving fans, clients, and referral sources. You have the power to control the perception others have of you and differentiation is the key to driving the focus onto your brand and business. Building a strong foundation for long-term success starts with creating a personal brand to stand out online Building a solid foundation for long-term brand and business success begins with creating a personal brand and differentiating yourself. Download my free eBook on my Purpose to Results™ Method and learn more about building a strong foundation for long-term success. And, if you've already downloaded the eBook and are ready to dive into mindset work, need help to navigate challenges with tech, tools, systems, and processes, help with creating a brand marketing strategy, and/or accountability to take intentional effective action, I invite you to schedule a discovery call with me by clicking here.

In this episode of the brand master podcast, I'm speaking with the best-selling author of The Brand Gap, the Brand Flip, zag, scramble, and Meta-skills, Mr. Marty Neumeier about the future of branding and brand strategy. 

BGBS 054: Andy Starr | Level C | Different Is So ImportantAndy Starr is a provocateur in the niche landscape where education, business, and brand co-exist. He sees the value in being different and finds comfort in creating change. Even as a kid, he liked being the black sheep. He didn't identify with the lead singer in a band or the striker making goals in soccer, he always wanted to be the drummer in the back or the goalie with a different uniform. With 17+ years of agency experience, Andy continues to move the needle forward with co-founder/brand master Marty Neumeier, as they educate leaders in the evolution of brand within business through their platform, Level C. You'll learn that Andy believes in more than just using strategy to sell. He believes in people, storytelling, and provoking emotion. Andy believes that provocation can be good and different can be important, inspiring us to ask ourselves how can we each embrace our differences to provide value to the world. In this episode, you'll learn…Andy considers himself to be a provocateur in the professional education space. To him, this means being different for the sake of being valuable. In the professional education realm, what needs to change is access, quality of content, relevance of content, and applicability of concepts. Andy and Marty Neumeier care about progressing professional education through the lense of brand. On the higher academic level, much of what is studied focuses on theory. The purpose of this is to teach you to think critically and prepare you for a world that is constantly evolving. With this in mind, analytic thought will always be relevant. Andy grew up in a conservative, change-resistant part of the world. Growing up, he always wanted to do the complete opposite of what was expected of him. When he learned the payoff of being different it transformed his whole world. Andy was always enraptured by the drums. He resonated with drummers the most but didn't begin playing himself until college. When he did, he expresses it as meeting himself for the first time. While in law school, Andy helped his girlfriend with her graphic design clients and found more interest in that than what he was studying. She introduced him to The Brand Gap and he fell in love with the book. Marty was a great influence to Andy, and he messaged him many times with his accomplishments to prove himself worthy of being mentored. When Andy first visited Marty's apartment, he found a highly used, beat-up version of The Brand Gap that he thought may have been a first edition. He later learned that it belonged to the one and only, Steve Jobs. Level C's purpose is to bring the role of brand to the C suite so that business is done with the people in mind. By doing so, real change can happen within business, and in turn, the world. Brands do not control their audience, they influence them (and even that has a limit). A brand's stance will provide more context to where you stand in regards to their position, whether that is with or against them. ResourcesLinkedIn: Andy Starr Instagram: @the_andy_starr Level C Website: levelc.org Quotes[15:55] Different matters because we think that there's something in it for us. Whether it's noticing something different, or acting, feeling wanting to be different, there is a perceived payoff to that. When I realized that, when that was revealed to me and for me, my whole perspective on everything changed. [19:25] I actually started playing drums. That was something that I always wanted to do. Even as a little kid, I was always attracted not to the guitarist, or the lead singer, or the pianist, I was always attracted to the guy sitting in the back, because the guy sitting in the back was always the one that I felt in my chest, in my gut. [51:56] What we're trying to do with Level C is we're trying to put in, or depending on your perspective, restore the role of brand into the C suite. To restore the role of brand into a position of influence on the business side, a position of relevance to the business and the consumer side…to influence the way people think about this stuff. And we believe that when they think about it, when they learn, and they think, and they process, and then they practice, real change can happen. [53:01] We're not looking to change the world. We're looking to change a part of business because we do believe that if you change business enough, then the world can be changed. Podcast TranscriptAndy Starr 0:02 That romantic sense of the trajectory of my life or what I thought that trajectory needed to be, where it was always there, I couldn't shake it no matter how hard I tried, until I actually started playing drums. That was something that I always wanted to do. I always, you know, even as a little kid, I was always attracted not to the guitarist or the, the lead singer, or, you know, you know, the pianist, I was always attracted to the guy sitting in the back, because the guy sitting in the back was always the one that you felt, or the one that I felt in my chest in my gut, right. And the drummer always seemed like, like the black sheep. And I honestly couldn't necessarily tell you why that was, but it always was. Marc Gutman 0:54 Podcasting from Boulder, Colorado. This is the Baby Got Backstory Podcast, where we dive into the story behind the story of today's most inspiring storytellers, creators and entrepreneurs. I like big backstories and I cannot lie. I am your host, Marc Gutman. I'm Marc Gutman, and on today's episode of Baby Got Backstory, we are talking with Andy Starr, co founder and partner of the brand education company Level C. And while I have your ear, if you're listening, I'm assuming you like our show. And if that premise holds true, then please take a minute or two to rate and review us over at Apple podcasts or Spotify, Apple and Spotify use these ratings as part of the algorithm that determines ratings on their charts. Better yet, please recommend this show to at least one friend you think will like it. If this is your first time listening, please consider subscribing. It is your subscriptions that make this show possible. Alright, enough of that stuff. Let's get back to the show. Andy Starr's bio describes him as a provocateur for hire at the intersection of education, business and brand. And while that is a super cool bio, I think he's so much more than that. Yes, he's a provocateur. But he's also a thought leader, an empath, an educator, an entrepreneur, a brand nerd, a people person, the partner to branding legend, an author, Marty Neumeier. I hope I can call him a friend and he calls me the same. But if you ask Andy who he is, he'll probably say none of all that and simply tell you, he's a musician. With 17 plus years of agency and in house experience across multiple categories of client business, including special focus on nonprofit and higher education. Andy is equal parts strategist, creative manager, and storyteller. I first met Andy is one of his students via the Level C program. Level C is an education platform. They're a company and a certification focused on all things brand. I've personally attended, and surprisingly, graduated both levels one and two. And all I can tell you is that there's something special about what they are building. How Andy sees the world. In his relationship with brand Master, Marty Neumeier. Andy is an accomplished brand professional in his own right. And well on his way to becoming a brand icon. Just don't tell him that. And this is his story. I am here with Andy Starr. He describes himself as a provocateur for hire at the intersection of education, business and brand. He is also the co founder and partner at Level C and we'll talk a bit about that. But Andy, what is a provocateur for hire at the intersection of education, business and brand? Andy Starr 4:20 That's what I like to think of a brand professional as being, someone who pokes the bear, someone who's looking to, you know, everyone's favorite word, zag. You know, when if everyone is doing this over here, I want to be the guy doing this over there, okay? And just you know, sometimes being different for the sake of being different, but professionally being different for the sake of being valuable. And that's what this whole thing is it's provocation. provocation can be bad, but provocation can be really good. It can be valuable, it can mean something. And that's how I see myself I just see myself as a provocateur for Hire less for hire these days, just, I'm getting tired of doing client work. You know, I want to focus more on being provocative in the professional education space. So, you know, and that is that is where we find ourselves, you know, at the intersection of business and education. You know, education is a business, I've had several education clients, universities and colleges that that refuse to acknowledge that they're a business at the end of the day, that makes my job as a brand provocateur more difficult. So when Marty and I started this, I was just like, let's just call it what it is, let's let's, let's not gloss, spin, blow smoke. Education in business is where we are. It's what we do. And it's what we're looking to transform, you know, then leave leave, leave the bullshitters to play in other spaces that they just make up, or that they they ignore. So that's, that's my jam. Marc Gutman 6:00 Yeah. And so, you know, you're talking about being a provocateur in the education space, which leads me to believe that there's something wrong with the education space, at least as we see it today. That holds true, please correct me if I'm incorrect in making that assumption. What's wrong with education today? Like, what are you trying to change? Andy Starr 6:19 Oh, man, you don't have enough time in your podcast. The big problem with education is its inability, or refusal to accept the fact that it needs to change. And there are 1,000,001 ways in which it needs to change, it needs to change from an administrative perspective, it needs to change from an academic perspective, it needs to change from a financial perspective. And it needs to change from a distribution perspective. So for us, in the professional education, part of the sandbox, we believe that education should be a life long thing, it should go on forever, we should, you should no one should ever want to stop learning. Most people don't. But access, quality of content, relevance of content, applicability of concepts, that needs to change. And we're not proposing that we, we are like the savior of education, we don't think that we're the savior of professional education, we want to, we want to practice what we preach and live up to what we believe. And so when it comes to professional education, we want to keep it focused on you know, we're not branding and marketing and sales and advertising content and social media. rebrand, and we're not, we don't want to take a how to brand approach to education, we just want to say, here's how you think about education, right? So when we think about our academic perch, we're not giving people prescriptions, we're just giving them food for thought. Okay, but that's not really out there. There are people who do it, you know, there, there are outlets, there are providers that do it. But there are fewer and farther between. and at a higher academic level, like MBA programs, there are really no MBA programs that talk about brand. If you want to find brand and Wharton's MBA program, you have to specialize more focus in marketing, you have to take marketing courses at Wharton. And, you know, hopefully you hear about brand at some point, but they don't talk about how to think about brand. That's just a loose example. So it's a big mountain to climb, dude. And Marty and I care very much about education, I especially care about education, my professional background and my family's background. I have educators in my family, my father was a professor, my grandfather was a university founder, he fell, he co founded a university and was an academic dean. And it's, I just care about it, it just matters. And so that's the space we want to play in. Marc Gutman 9:07 And I definitely want to get into that. And we might go there real soon here. And as he is you're talking like this idea of education remaining. You mentioned a lot of great points, you know, applicability and accessibility and just availability, but this, this idea of like education, having to remain relevant, and I'm personally just obsessed with this idea of like, relevance, and what does that mean, and how do you stay relevant? Because what struck me as you were your speaking is that Yeah, like our education gets stale really quick, especially in today's environment. It's not like, back in the day when the university held the professors and the university, you held the books and you had to go there and that was the only access you had to that information. And then the world was also moving equally as slow. But now, you know, we can we can Learn from a TED talk from someone around the world from someone we've never had access to put that in, in motion change the world. And so this idea of like staying relevant, and not even really sure, I have a question for you at the end of this is just fascinating to me. And that, you know, that really seems to be a huge challenge for people in the education space. Andy Starr 10:20 For sure. And like you said, one of the catalysts of that, you know, are sources of that challenge, is because unlike 30 4050 years ago, the world is just hyper connected. I don't even know if that's accurate. And it's just, we are all connected. We move and we think, and we learn and we consume at faster and faster speeds. Right? And so it raises the question of the role of immediacy, in education, right? Because and, and speed and immediacy, I think, are part of its relevance, right? How quickly can I have access to the educational content? How quickly can I consume it? How quickly can I be deemed to be proficient? And how quickly can I get out back in the real world, and actually use it and make a difference, bring value and earn something in return? Right? Those questions, raise 1000 more questions. So it's, it's complicated. It's it's super, super tricky. But, you know, another thing about relevance is, and this is something that we, we've actually tackled in our first level masterclass. For the teams that worked on higher education as a category to disrupt, right, we've heard things about kind of the cadence, or the formulaic structure of education, and this is something that Marty feels especially strong about, traditionally, is and even today, kind of the model of education is, you know, at that at the college and beyond level is like, you study theory, right? You spend four years, two years, you know, three years unless you studied theory, and then you go out in the world, and you learn gain us skills, right? But while you're studying that theory, it's like, What am I supposed to do with this? How does this how does how is this theory relevant to the world that I'm about to land in? Or that it's about to fall on me one way or another? How do I how do I survive just with this theory? And so you know, there's one school of thought, that says, you know, learn the skills first, and then continue lifelong learning and learn that theory, have a greater appreciation, a better ability to think critically and analytically. Right. But the flip side to that argument is, well, that's what a liberal arts education is in liberal arts teaches you how to think critically. And analytically, you're reading about history and philosophy, and literature, you're not doing that just for shits and giggles, right, you're not doing it solely to feed the ego of a tenured professor, although that that is part of it. It prepares you for a world that is constantly evolving. A world in which the kind of one career from start to finish doesn't exist the way it used to, with a few exceptions. And you have to be able to think critically and analytically so that you're flexible enough to kind of jump from one chapter of your career to the next from one role to another, from one category to another, and in some cases, making a complete career change from one to another. And I did that, right. And so we've altruistically, we sleep very well at night. Because we know that what we're doing is righteous, it's self righteous, we want to make a valuable contribution in this space. But at the same time, it's not that we've set ourselves up for failure is that it's a huge mountain to climb, and we will most certainly never get to the peak of it. But that's okay. That's okay. Marc Gutman 14:17 So much to unpack there and so, I'm not even gonna try. What I'd like to do is— Andy Starr 14:21 Talk to my therapist, I'll call her! Marc Gutman 14:25 I'd like to shift gears a little bit. And, you know, you talked a little bit about your family and your family history. But you know, and you also mentioned that part of being a provocateur is is being different and so when you were young, were you always striving to be different as a child. I mean, was this was this ingrained in you? Is like eight year old Andy always pushing boundaries? Andy Starr 14:46 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I grew up in a relatively conservative minded white collar family. Dad was a lawyer mom was a social worker, and We lived in the suburbs of Philadelphia, and it was a relatively conservative, change resistant part of the world change resistant parents. And yeah, I was kind of a black sheep. I just, you know, if everyone told me to do one thing, I just wanted to do the complete opposite. I liked feeling and being different. But that's as a kid, you know, that I didn't understand the value in that. And it wasn't, it wasn't really until I got into this work. 2030 years later that I understood, why being different, wanting to feel different, look different, act different. Think different, is so important, and why I cared about it so much without understanding why and and, you know, Marty, we talked about this in the class, it's, you know, human beings are hardwired to notice what's different. But it's the why we're hardwired, we different matters, because we think that there's something in it for us. Whether it's noticing something different, or acting, feeling wanting to be different, there is a perceived payoff to that. And that when I when I realized that when that was kind of revealed to me, and for me, my whole perspective, my perspective on everything changed on life on career. And then when I realized how I could weaponize that and use that in this space, like, everything just kind of broke, broke open. And, but but but it, it bears it bears repeating. And like, I feel like the need to constantly say it, it's not being different. For the sake of being different. There's a reason for it. The reasons may be my own, right. The reasons may be a client's goals, it kind of doesn't matter. But there are reasons for doing it. There are reasons for wanting to do it. And there's sure shit reasons for learning how to think about that. Right. And again, it all comes back to learning to think. But I'm not, we don't teach you I would never teach someone how to be different. But we do talk about and I'm happy to talk about thinking about being different. Marc Gutman 17:23 Yeah, and I think thinking about being different is the for me at least the the key idea because inherently, we don't want to be different. I mean, our childhoods could have been very similar, except I grew up in Detroit new grew up in Philadelphia, but I remember, like, I felt different, but I didn't want to be different, you know, and being different,there was always this ying and this Yang between like and tention between being different and people saying, that's what makes you special. And the reality of like, we want to be part of groups, and we want to fit in and we want to be the same. And I think, you know, we can talk about this later. But I think that's the trap brands fall into all the time is that they, they want to fit in, they want to be seen, like they they're scared to be different. And they're thereby they try to fit in and then they get bland and they get diluted and all these things. Things happen. So, you know, when you were a kid when you were looking around and being different, I mean, what were you into? Like, what were your interests? Like? What did you think you were gonna be? Did you think you were gonna be a provocateur for hire? Did you think you were gonna be an education? Like, what do you think you were gonna do? Andy Starr 18:28 No, I mean, I guess Looking back, I think I had this oddly romantic sense that I would follow in my father's footsteps. You know, I my dad was incredibly important to me. My grandfather was in both my grandfather's were incredibly important to me. And I kind of always saw myself following in one of their footsteps, either a lawyer without knowing what that meant, or understanding why it was just, it was my, what my dad did a university Dean because that's what his father did. Or a psychoanalyst, which is what my other grandfather did. They were, you know, that's, that's what I wanted to do. And I always, even through college, I had that, that that romantic sense of romance, that romantic sense of the trajectory of my life, or what I thought that trajectory needed to be. Where was always there, I couldn't shake it, no matter how hard I tried, until I actually started playing drums. That was something that I always wanted to do. I always, you know, even as a little kid, I was always attracted not to the to the guitarist, or the, the lead singer, or, you know, you know, the pianist, I was always attracted to the guy sitting in the back, because the guy sitting in the back was always the one that you felt, or the one that I felt in my chest in my gut, right? And the drummer always seemed like, like the black sheep, and I honestly couldn't necessarily tell you Why that was but it always was in sports. I was in soccer. I'm still a soccer geek. I played soccer since I was three. Well, when you're a kid, everyone wants to be the striker the forward who scores the goals. I never did. I wanted to be the goalkeeper. Why? Because the goalkeeper got to wear the different shirt, the gloves. And the goalkeeper was always either the hero if he made the big save, or the goat, the bad goat, if he if he botched it and let a golden so drum, you know, the drums and being goalie in soccer. To me, they were always the same thing. All the glory, if you got it a complete, you know, complete disaster if you fuck it up. And for me, there was never I was never satisfied. I never enjoyed To me, the middle ground was boring. It was uninteresting. It's like it was like, it was just nothing and I wanted nothing to do with it. And so my parents encouraged me to play soccer. And as a kid, they wanted me to have nothing to do with the drums because to them, the drums weren't a real musical instrument playing the piano playing the guitar playing, you know, the violin or or saxophone. That was fine with them. Uh, playing drums wasn't and I didn't get to play drums until I got to college. And when I did, I mean, I remember the first time I did it, and that actually changed my life more than almost anything. Because I felt like I was meeting myself and meeting the person I always wanted to be for the first time. Do you remember that day? I totally I, I remember the day I decided no matter what I was going to find a drum set and teach myself. And I remember, I remember the day that I sat down behind a drum set with drumsticks in my hand for the first time. Absolutely. I remember my first gig. And it was all my first my freshman year and it changed everything. It literally changed the trajectory of my life. Marc Gutman 22:04 Where were you that first day you played the drums take us there. Andy Starr 22:08 It was January of 1998, we had just come back from winter break. And there was a senior on campus who was a drummer in a funk band, and the funk band played on campus. And when they would it was like the thing it was like the coolest thing ever. And he you know, kind of did your your typical rock star kind of you know, playing with his shirt off sunglasses cigarette dangling from his lips. And it just drove people nuts. And I was just like, I just need to do that I was super shy. I didn't drink I didn't party. And it was something I always wanted to chase. But it was also a way for me to stand out on my campus. And that was important to me, I wanted to have a good college experience. And up to that point, I really wasn't. And I knew who he was. It took me a semester to work up the courage to approach him. And I on on a January day we were we had been back on campus for like a few days. And I saw him walking and I ran out of the building. I chased him down. It was really, really cold. And I just said, “Hey, you're the drummer in that band. I would love to learn how to play the drums. Could I maybe play on your kit a couple times and see if I can do it?” And I thought it was just gonna say no. And he said, “Yeah, here's the room on campus where they're stored. Here's the code to get in play anytime you want.” And it took me like another week to work up the courage just to go and do that. And I had no idea what I was doing. There was YouTube didn't exist. So I couldn't watch videos on how to do it. But I had a pair of drumsticks that I had, you know, come into my possession along the way. And I sat down. And just for some reason I knew what to do. And it was it became addictive. And I played my very first gig with people a few months later, he had heard me practicing and they wanted to know who was playing. They said, You're really good. What do you want to jam with us? And that and that first gig, I remember the songs we played, was like it was just, it was transformative. And that's so that's what I wanted to do for a long time. I wanted to just be professional musician. I went to music school after college. I wanted to be in a rock band. That's what I wanted to do. Andy Starr 24:29 It didn't play out that way but— Marc Gutman 24:34 Yeah, so what happened? Andy Starr 24:35 Well, you know music piracy, the way the industry change and 02, 03 I wanted to be a musician but I didn't want to be a poor starving musician living out of a van driving six or 800 miles a night from gig to gig just to kind of build up that fan base. I just didn't want that. I wanted to be a musician, not a rock star. So, but I'm still a musician and if people when people ask me like to Talk about myself. I say, you know, I'm a musician, first of Philadelphia and second, you know, and I work in brand third. That is me. Marc Gutman 25:09 Nice. And so but you're not in Philadelphia right now are you? Andy Starr 25:12 No, I left Philly, I left early Jesus like, almost two years ago now. And I was making my way I'm very nomadic right now I was making my way to California through by way of Houston. My best friend lives here and I wanted to see him and I've just gotten stuck here with COVID. So, but I'm Philly, being from Philly is like, you know, other places. It's like an attitude. It's like a state of mind. So I can live it I can live and be anywhere but I'm Philly. Marc Gutman 25:44 Feel like being stuck in Houston, because of COVID is like a great next great like Wes Anderson movie, you know? sounds incredible to me. But so you, you leave college, you go to music school, you're pursuing your love of music, and you decide that you might have to get a real job. And so like, how do you get into like, this brand stuff. I mean, the path isn't always obvious. And I'm guessing it wasn't for you either. Andy Starr 26:14 It wasn't I still didn't know really what brand meant. Then I left music school, I was kind of like in a funk didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't want to be the lawyer that my parents wanted me to be. And my dad working in finance, he and I kind of had had a falling out a little bit we were we had a rocky thing for a few years. And he when he learned that I was going to leave music school, he asked if I would want to kind of learn his business, and maybe build a path, you know, a career and you know, some stability for myself. And I didn't care about the business, but I cared about him. So I did it and and I liked what we were doing. I liked it. That was that was just commercial finance and, and so that was going to be the trajectory of my life. And then it's a much longer story. But things happen professionally with our business and with the economy at the time. And we were professionally we were the victims of fraud. And when that happened, my dad basically lost his business. And I kind of lost a pathway, if you will. And I was very angry, like ferociously angry. And I wanted revenge. And I applied to law school. And I got in. And so I was prepared to do that. And at the time, I was I was in a relationship with a girl and she worked in she was a graphic designer. And she worked like in advertising. And her father was kind of a big name in branding in the branding world. And she she kind of had her own little consultancy, and she would kind of come home from the day and I was trying to study the law. And she was complaining about her clients. And I found myself talking with her about her clients. But I was talking about it from a strategic standpoint, not from a design standpoint. And I found that I was liking that a whole lot more than studying the law between that and her father kind of encouraged me to pursue that and not to pursue the law. And I got out of the like I left law school before it was too late. And I'm really glad I did. And I started kind of doing this loosely with her still not knowing really what Brandman still not really knowing that advertising was like a whole like industry and thing that I could go do professionally. And then one night she suggested that I read a book about branding. And it was called the brand gap. And I had never seen a book like it never heard of the author. But I started reading it and next thing I knew it was the next morning I'd stayed up all night reading it. I just couldn't stop and that experience was probably the other thing that changed my life trajectory. Right? It I just I saw and thought now is the thing I thought about everything. I thought about business I found about people without ever having had any grounding or experience in the concept of brand and literally overnight. I knew exactly what Brandman and from from that point. I knew not only was this interesting, and that I wanted to try it I knew that I could be really good at it. I just knew that I could. It all just made sense in it in some ways. It filled in some gaps for me It helps me think about myself and where I had been in why I was the way I was right and why I am the way I am so it just when that happened when she put brand gap in my hand like that was it. Everything became crystal clear. I ended up stalking Marty for a long time. Like I stalked him online. Found him he was at his his old agency new neutron. And I emailed him and I was just like, hey, read, you know, read the brand gap, I think you're a genius, this is what I want to do, will you be my mentor, please, I need a mentor. And I joke about it, but he basically sent me like a fuck off, I'm too busy email, he didn't use that language. But he that was basically what he was saying. But I didn't care, I kept sending him messages along the way, when I would get my first agency gig when I would get my, you know, produce my first you know, copywriting project, I would just send stuff to him just to see what he would say. And occasionally, he would respond with looks good, keep it up, you know, kind of your, your, your packaged, automated response, right. But I started to try to demonstrate to him that even though I didn't have the experience in the portfolio that a lot of other players in the space had, I thought about it differently. And I thought about it at a much higher and deeper, more impactful level. And he started to respond to me. And at one point, he invited me to come to France to a private workshop, and he was holding with, like, you know, executives, and like super high level designers. He's like, come to the Chateau. It'll be for a week, and you'll, it'll be crazy. It'll change your life. And I didn't go. And it's like the one regret I have professionally. Like, I didn't go to that. But, you know, fast forward Six years later, and look at what I'm doing with him and of all the people in the world who could be doing this episode. Marc Gutman 31:37 Brought to you by Wildstory. Wait, isn't that your company? It is. And without the generous support of Wildstory, this show would not be possible. A brand isn't a logo or a tagline, or even your product. A brand is a person's gut feeling about a product service or company. It's what people say about you, when you're not in the room. Wildstory helps progressive founders and savvy marketers build purpose driven brands that connect their business goals with the customers they want to serve. So that both the business and the customer needs are met. This results in crazy, happy, loyal customers that purchase again and again. And this is great for business. If that sounds like something you and your team might want to learn more about, reach out @ www.wildstory.com. And we'd be happy to tell you more. Now back to our show. Crazy, right? And so like six years ago, you have no should I say resume or credential? in this space, you decide that? It's your calling, and it hits you. And how long before like Marty starts to even like, respond to you and you build that relationship. I mean, you kind of jump but I mean, how long are you like sending him like, Hey, I'm still here messages like, hey, like, I, you know, respond. Andy Starr 33:07 I sent him, I sent the very first message to him, like in November of 2009. And then I think I was sending him maybe like one a year, up until like 2014. And I had been basically agency hopping, you know, like shop hopping in between. And then in 24 2013, I sent him something. And that's when he responded with like, Hey, you should come to this workshop. And I, you know, I was like, I don't think I can I'm about to start a new agency gig. You know, and he was like, if you just buy the plane ticket and just come just you don't have don't pay the workshop fee, just just come for free. I would have been the most junior person there. I came this close. But I was starting a new agency gig and an agency I'd really wanted to land in. And I didn't think it was a good idea. And then I didn't I didn't email him. I didn't message him for several years. And then it was in 2017. So it was about three years ago, I had gotten tired of the agency world super tired of it. And I left and I was working at a startup. And they were the startup work in the event space. And they they they were an event business and they had physical space. And they wanted to kind of rebrand themselves, but they also wanted to evolve their product offering. And I started talking with the CEO and we were coming up with ideas of you know, how can we make this event space because at the time, like that was like super commoditized right? And we work was the was becoming the 800 pound gorilla, right? And so there was this idea of using this existing space not just for corporate meetings and events but for education and to come to To fill the schedule, with gurus across different disciplines, leading workshops, that was already happening, but here was a space and we could kind of reposition this business around that. Well, that was cool. But that wasn't wholly unique. And I had this idea to go one step further and find like high level gurus who are already delivering workshops and educational content, and to kind of bring them into this mix. And to do that in partnership with a local business school like a local MBA program. And the idea would be that the MBA program would underwrite a certain of these workshops, right? And allow participants to not just take the workshop, but to earn academic credit towards that schools MBA, that wasn't really being done anywhere, by anyone or any school. And so we decided, like that was, that was a cool idea. We wanted to change it. But we had two challenges. We had to find the gurus, but we also had to find an MBA program willing to do that. So we chased the MBA program first, because to me, that was going to be the bigger lift. But fortunately, a local Philadelphia MBA program, and we had a connection, we had a meeting, we had, we made a proposal to the dean, and we said, let's just give it a shot. Let's do a one on one professional Ed, you know, adult education workshop in a specific topic that we all agree on. And the MBA program will give or make credit available. Let's just see, the dean just was like, Okay, done. Let's try it. Okay. And when we were walking out of the conference room, someone said, by the way, what's the topic? And who's going to be the subject matter expert? We didn't know. And I literally just blurted out, how about brand branding that's relevant to business. And no MBA program really offers that. It's a great, great idea. And who will lead it? And I was like, there's a guy who wrote some books. And they said, Great, set it up. And then I so then I sent Marty an email for the first time in years. And I reminded him who I was. And I told him, here's what we're doing. Here's what we want to try. We want to try it with you. And I really didn't expect a response. I got a response in like 30 minutes. And he's like, let's talk and Marty doesn't like to like do things by email, or by phone, he likes to Skype, or he likes to see you. And I was like, Oh my God, I've never done that before. I've never spoken to him Skype, whatever, we set it up. And we set up a 30 minute kind of intro. That's what I thought it was going to be. It was like a two and a half hour like, thing back and forth. And my entire team was like, behind my laptop, like, like listening. And I'm just jamming with Master. And he said, like, in his entire career, people have come to him with ideas and wanting to partner and said, this was the best idea that anyone had brought to him, like better than lynda.com wanting him to like come in and do that better than LinkedIn learning, wanting him to come in and like be exclusive is like this was it. Okay, crazy. Fast forward a little bit. We were getting everything set up the MBA, there was a problem with the MBA program we pulled out. And then the the startup just it wasn't it wasn't working. They wanted to go in a different direction. They weren't funded properly. And so I bounced, but Marty and I kept talking, we would email and kind of we started asking ourselves like, what if, like, how about, you know, could we blah, blah, blah. And one day, he just said, Look, if they weren't willing or able to do it, why don't you and I just do this ourselves? Why don't you and I just try it? Okay, I flew out to Santa Barbara. He invited me to his home. We locked ourselves in his home studio for like three or four days. And we went through our own process that we teach. We did it on ourselves. And we had this thing basically, in the can, like before I left. And here we are. Yeah. And so Marc Gutman 39:30 Take yourself back to that time in Santa Barbara. I mean, what do you think? And are you just looking around like, I can't believe this is happening like this, you know, this, you know, as they say, the this escalated quickly, right? Like all the sudden, you're in partnership, and I know it's that you've built a relationship over time. And I and I really don't want to minimize that because I think it's a huge thing that I want people to take away from this that you you built a relationship you stayed in front of Marty and when the time was right, it was right for both of you, but It is you're in Santa Barbara, and you're building this thing and you're like, we're doing this thing. Are you just kind of looking around like you're, you mentioned, you're in his studio. I mean, this is, you know, I think for any brand, or you have his books on your desk, I mean, mine, I just put mine just to the side here. But you know, I've typically got stacks of them. I mean, to me, that would be like, whaaatt? Andy Starr 40:17 So I had met him, he, he flew to Philadelphia, while we, you know, after we kind of agreed we were going to try with that startup, he flew to Philadelphia, because he wanted to meet me and the team at the time. And he, he gave us he basically did his brand flip workshop, like, for like, almost nothing, he just wanted to meet us. And so I had the starstruck thing when I picked him up at the airport. That was like, that was bananas. I was like, you know, just a little kid. But when he invited me to out to his home, that's when, for me, it became something different in the coolest thing that we did, there was, you know, I'm in his is his studio. It's like, the kind of studio I would want for myself, you know, and he has, like, on his bookshelf, he has, you know, extra copies of all of his books, and then all of the design and business and strategy books that have influenced him, right. And I'm literally going like book by book, and then I get up to the shelf with extra copies of the brand gap, right? I mean, this is so wild. So out, and they were all like super pristine, right? Except for one copy. There was one copy that was all just beat up and folded and and there were rabbit ears, and there were little postage sticking out of it. And I thought like, that's really weird. Like, why is that up there? like is that his copy? Was that like a is that a first edition? Whatever, I take it down. I'm looking at it. And I'm just, I'm holding it in my oily, you know, hands. And I'm just what is it? And he walked out of the office for a few minutes. And that's when I was doing this. And when it comes back in, I just turned to him. And I'm like, what's the story with this book? Because it's not pristine, like sentimental value. And he's like, Oh, look at the cover. And I looked at the cover and it said Steve's copy hands off, and I'm like, I don't get it. Who Steve and he just so nonchalantly says well, that Steve Jobs copy. I was like what I'm holding Steve Jobs copy of the brand gap beat up folded marked, you know, rabbit ear, you know, notes, you know, that for me? Was that was another thing like, this guy wants to like be my partner. He wants to do this with me. And that would that's that was really kind of like the first time with Marty that I felt way out of my element. Like, this should not be me. I'm not I'm I should not be the one to do this. It made me It made me like nervous. I was like genuinely, like, kind of out of sorts about it. And then we sat down and started going, you know, through the thing, and I'm kind of a control freak. I like to be in control when when I know what I'm doing. And I feel confident about what I'm doing. I can I can drive the train. And I was just like, no way. I was like, dude, you're in charge. Like, you lead the way. I'm going to follow I'm going to do this with you. But like, you know, Master apprentice, you know, Jedi Padawan like I'm totally okay with that. And when we started going through it, I thought I knew things right? You know how like, you can read the books and you can have your successes and you can have your confidence. You You think you know your shit, right? You know, I know all my rudiments on the drums and like, you know, I'm pretty decent drummer. But then you meet like a real German you're like that cat is just a bad fucking dude. When when we kicked it off that morning, I was just like, Whoa, and I regret not like recording the entire thing for posterity. Because it was that bad. It was that like, Oh, alright, so this is what this is what it's really like when the master does it. And I mean, like, the whole thing was like a learning experience. And I was like, I was drunk by like, the end of the first day. Marc Gutman 44:19 Yeah. And, you know, you were wondering, like, hey, how could this be me? But it is you so in working with Marty like what makes him a great partner? Andy Starr 44:30 Marty's no bullshit. That's the best thing about him. Because, you know, even better than his experience and his talent than his intelligence and his intellectual curiosity. He reads more than almost anyone I know. But he is no bullshit. He's no bullshit with me. He's no bullshit with our students. He calls it exactly the way he sees it. And it's funny, we've actually had disagreements about that. When we get feedback in our class, I'm an advocate For a slightly gentler approach, I don't think that there's a need to be super blonde just for the sake of, you know, minimizing bullshit. And we've, we've disagreed on that, but I've come around to really appreciate that, and have have just the most the utmost respect for his candor is the elegance that he provides feedback, and expertise, the the elegance with which he shares his mastery with other people. Um, and that was no different for me. I just had the luxury of having it one on one in a very intimate setting. Right. That's, that's the thing about Marty, I'm just an app, and look at the space we work in, look at how much bullshit there is. I mean, I've worked at agencies, and I've worked with people who literally have this philosophy that we are in the bullshit business. Right. And that's hard. That's hard to swallow, right? For me, at least. And to realize and then experience that the mass the guy who wrote the book, The master himself, is completely, I mean, completely anti bullshit. I was I was just like this, this is just too good to be true. just too good to be true. But it's not. It's just too good. Marc Gutman 46:34 So, no, it is too good. And you know, to flip the coin a little bit, what makes you a great partner. What do you think? Either you can address that from either what you think or what do you think Marty would say? Andy Starr 46:48 I don't see the weird thing is, it's not that I'm uncomfortable asking that. I just don't know. It's not I'm not the type of person who typically answers that. I would say, I think one of the things that makes me a good partner is that I take it, it's because I follow some of the some of the advice that I and guidance that I try to contribute to others, including, I take it seriously. But I'm not too serious about it, I think I have a very healthy idea of what matters and what doesn't. For myself, for Marty, for us, and for our tribe. I'm very patient. And I think I think I'm hyper patient. And I'm, I am, I am extremely passionate about what we're doing. And I know that sounds that may all sound cliched, but one of the things I've learned is that, if that's not if that stuff isn't there, it doesn't really matter what you're doing, right. And the last thing I want to do is be a hypocrite and I couldn't really live with myself, if people thought that I or Marty or we were hypocrites and what we what we preach what we teach. So I think that from what I think for money, I'm also a balance. You know, we talk about personality types and, and roles. And I think that Marty and I complement each other really well, there are things that he can do that I can't, and I don't want to try, there are things that he can do that I can do that I just don't want to do that I don't like to do, or that I'm just not very good at. And there are ways that he thinks that I don't where I can. And I would say the flip is just as true. And I think that we balanced and complete and round each other out really well like that, you know, like looking at it from 80,000 feet. He's a creative and a designer and i'm not i'm a strategist, right? He's He's strategic. I am creative, but we kind of we recognize where we belong, and we recognize our lanes. And he's not as territorial as you. Some people might expect him to be. He is and on all things creative. I defer to him. And he he, I think for him, I'm also going back to the word, you know, going back to the label provocateur, I'm more provocative than he is. I am, I think I'm definitely more brash, I'm a little more raw. And, and maybe he likes that because he doesn't need to be that anymore. He doesn't want to be that anymore. Maybe it's just not enough, you know him. But I think we just we just complement each other really well. We look at the world basically the same way. We never really had an argument about anything. We have disagreements, but we're both patient enough and I am super respectful of his seniority to me. Super respectful, and I value that, and I want him to and I tell him I want him to be the master, not just for others, but for me too. And, and allow me to learn while we're doing this. And I have every time he and I jam on something, I learned something new, which is bananas. And I think all of that makes me a partner that works for him with him. And he's had partners in the past, I'd be curious to hear what he thinks of me as a partner. But that's the thing, I'm not going to let my ego get in the way I want to know. And I want to be a good partner going forward. And even when he takes a step back, and I have to decide how Level C c kind of moves on, I'm going to want other partners, and I want to be a good partner for them. So you know, but I hate talking about myself that way. Like, I hate it. Good question, though. Marc Gutman 50:56 Good, good. Good. And so, you know, as you talk about Level C, like, what, let's talk about that for a second, like, why does brand matter? And why does Level C matter? Like, what are you trying to do with this thing? Andy Starr 51:09 Brand matters, because brand, is brand is the people's connection to business, right? brand is what lets come what lets the company, and the people actually come together. So when a company talks about the people, the people, the people, the customers, it's all just talk, it's the brand that actually makes that real, that makes that consequential, if you will, and so brand should matter to the business world, if they actually care about the consumer, the people, the tribe, the audience, whatever you want to call them, brand should matter to people, because it's through brand that people can influence and change business. Okay. And what we're trying to do with Level C, is we are trying to, we're trying to put in, or, depending on your perspective, restore the role of brand, into the C suite, to restore the role of brand, into a position of influence, on the business side, a position of relevance to the business and the consumer side, to change the conversation. Right, there's a lot of conversation, especially recently, about kind of the role of brand versus marketing. You know, there are a lot of people that believe that, you know, brand is a part of marketing. And we believe that you know, marketing is actually a part of brand. And that's a red herring, I definitely don't want to go down, go down that path here. But we want to influence the way people think about this stuff. And we believe that when they think about it, when they learn, and they think and they process, and then they practice, real change can happen. And you know, here's the thing, we don't we're not trying to change the world. We're not maybe we're one of the few brands out there that is comfortable saying that we're not looking to change the world, we're looking to change a part of business, because we do believe that if you change business enough, then the world can be changed. So that's what we're trying to do. We're, you know, we're creating an army of people who who get this stuff, right. And maybe army isn't the right word. Maybe tribe isn't even right, the right word. We're just recreating it, we're creating the opportunity for people who work in this space, to get it, evangelize it and bring the rest of us forward. Marc Gutman 53:40 Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. I mean, I, you know, I've spoken on this before, but, you know, I believe that this idea of business is just this one big story that we all have invented and buy into. And if, if you hold that to be true, then that means that we have the power to influence it and change it. And I also think there's something that's like, just crazy going on right now. And I'd love to get your take on this. You know, even thinking about like, brand, you know, the history of brand, but like, it's my observation that people are looking to brands now in ways that they never have before, right? They're looking to brands for how do you feel about COVID? For example, how do you feel about racial inequality? How do you feel about politics, you know, in by asking the brand that they want information that it's that well, it says like, well, then if you feel this way, then I feel this way, it's a direct reflection. And I think there's just this crazy thing happening and I don't know if you're seeing that if that's if that feels new to you, but like this idea that like, even the brands I work with, they're like, Well, what do we say like how do we act you know, and now it's a bigger conversation because you know, we can get into like values and your beliefs and you know, hold true to those but I just find this, this kind of forefront of brand and the way people are looking to brand to to comment on the world so that it tells them how they feel about the world. Just this, you know that and I believe in that, like, how the customer felt about the world was it seemed to be that like it was, it's been like that for a long time. It's like the subtext. It's like, it's like, like, what am I? What's my status? Or like, how do I see myself? But now it just seems like way more overt and direct in terms of like, what people are demanding from brands in terms of worldview? Andy Starr 55:19 I mean, it's it's tribalism, right? You can boil all that down into tribalism, or identity, right? Who am I? What do I stand for? What do I want? You know, what matters to me? You know, I think it's a different conversation, I think it reflects a lot of other things, the fracturing of the human of human identity over the last, you know, 20 plus years, and I know, it's, it goes back way longer than that, but, you know, the way the world has changed in the past 20 years, the way we've all become, you know, immediately connected, right, you know, everything can happen. Now. I can talk to someone, you know, we had a student in a thing this morning from Nepal. Like I can talk to him in a second, right. Um, and so I think that that's created a kind of a sense of urgency, maybe that's not the not exactly what I mean. But in terms of, in terms of clarity, about where you stand. And so when people, you know, ask the question, what does the brand stand for? Right? You know, what, what is what is I don't I'm making it up, what is Warby Parker's stance on Black Lives Matter. It's not so much that they care about Warby Parker's stance that is that this is what I'm just speaking for myself what I believe, I don't think it's so much that they care about Warby Parker's stance, I think it's Warby Parker's stance helps frame a little bit more of the context for themselves. How where do they see themselves in relation to Black Lives Matter and Warby Parker and apple and Nike and Starbucks and Virgin and pick a brand? Right? Because really, really, at the end of the day, do you think that people really give a shit about most brands? I don't. I don't. I think that brand loyalty is almost like a misnomer. Like, do I love my iPhone? Yeah. Do I love my Apple watch? Sure. Do. I love my MacBook Pro? Absolutely. And my loyal to the Apple brand? No, I don't care that much. I just don't care about me. I care about my friends, my family I care about my community. I you know, I care about who's at the top of the barclays premier league table. I don't really care about Apple's brand. If I hear that Apple has a position where has done something that I don't agree with? Does it anger me annoying me? piss me off? Yeah, it does. But mainly just because I wish that they could see it the way I see it. But I don't I don't. I don't look at it the way I know a lot of people look at it. You know, when I have a client and they, they they'll ask me, you know, how should we respond to this, I'm always going to tell them the truth and not my truth. But what I strategically believe, is best for the business and the brand. And that's always a tricky kind of gray area. But I just I just don't think people care. I I struggled to believe that people genuinely care. And people may say, I really care. And they may they may believe that they may feel that way. And I and I, I won't disrespect or deny that that happens. I won't. But I think deep down maybe you know, it's it's more ID than ego. I don't think it matters to them as much as it's been made out to. Okay. But again, if you believe if you believe me when I say if you believe in the idea that the brand is what connects people to the business, well, then what the brand stands for their values, their their position on a given issue, political, social, whatever, then it does matter. For better or for worse. I just don't think that the brand can control it as much as they think they can. Right? Because they certainly can't control their audience. They can influence their audience. They can try to anticipate what the majority of their audience believes or feels about a specific issue. But, you know, when it comes to control, and it doesn't exist, it just doesn't influence exist, but even that has limit so I roll my eyes a lot and when when I when I see the question, you know where the debate happening? It's I'm just like, who really cares? That's different from caring about the issue. I definitely care about the issues, I feel very strongly about the same issues. I just don't care about what the brand thinks, or what the brand says they stand for. I just don't. Marc Gutman 1:00:17 Hmm. So to challenge you on that, if Apple and by the way, this is theory, everybody, if Apple actually denounced black lives matter if they had a more not inclusive policy towards LGBTQ and like, you know, did not recognize those folks that would have no bearing in your purchase of their product. Andy Starr 1:00:45 It probably would. And not probably would, it would. But that's not again, it's not so much because of what Apple stands for. It's for what I stand for. Correct? Yeah, that's, that's why and again, I, I recognize that what I just said, may may initially resonate with some people like why wait, he doesn't care? No. I care very, very much. I have extremely strong feelings that I believe are in the majority. By the way, I think that I stand with most people on most issues I do. And because they matter so much, to me, that's what influences my decision. That's what influences my behavior in one way or another. If he here's another example. Um, I remember, I think it was a couple years ago, the I think it was the CEO of barilla. Pasta, I was kind of outed for making, you know, homophobic remarks, right? Mm hmm. I'm like a pasta. I basically eat spaghetti every day of my life. and up to that point, Burleigh, was the brand that I like to make. I haven't had real essence. And I never will. Not because because of what he said, but that's not what influenced my decision is because of how I feel. That's how strongly I feel about it. Right. And, and there's a difference. I think it's subtle, it's nuanced. It's complicated. It's not simple. But if someone if Apple so if Apple basically denounced Black Lives Matter, and people boycott Apple, it's more because of how those people feel for themselves about the issue. That's what I'm saying. Marc Gutman 1:02:33 I got it. Got it. Well, Andy, I could talk to you forever. This has gone super fast. And as we near the end of our time together, I'd love for you to think back to that time when you first walked into that music room and sat down at those drums and maybe hit the drum once or twice and had that charge of electricity. And if that Andy ran into you today, what do you think he'd say? Andy Starr 1:03:04 What do you think he would say about me now? Yeah, I have no idea. Wow, I've never been asked that before. I've always been asked the opposite. What would I say to Andy? That Andy, then I, I like to think that he would say, I'm sorry, I have no I'm like, stunned by that, that. That question is going to haunt me for a while. And I don't I don't even want to say I have to get back to you on that. Although I know I'm going to I have no idea dude. What? What is Wow, what an amazing question. Andy Starr 1:04:00 You can see my face and you can i'm, i'm i'm just like I can I can I ask you? Why did you ask me that question? Marc Gutman 1:04:17 Part of it is I want to know if your younger self would have been impressed or would have been interested or intrigued or curious or a myriad of other thoughts about how your life turned out and where you're at today and where you're going. Huh? And if that young Andy who is probably thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm about to become a life long professional musician. I would have thought like, Hey, you know, this is just as good playing music in a different way. Andy Starr 1:04:48 I think this is just more of me now. Then. What I would have been back then. But I I like to think or maybe I just hope that he would have have asked me Is it a good gig or is it a good deal? And without hesitation I I'd say it's the best gig. That is the best gig. This is a people business dude. Like it's more about people than it is about business. the business side of Level C like it's like the least fun thing that I do. The most fun thing that I do is meeting people like you meeting you know, meeting people like Mata Marina do meeting people like Matt Davies, Chris lateral Layla Casanova. I'm, you know, 300 more than 300 people, awesome human beings who work in the human side of business, from like, 4050 countries so far. That's, that's like the best gig in the world, the best gig. Marc Gutman 1:06:00 And that is Andy Starr of Level C. Well, what did you think? Drinking from the firehose yet? I could have talked with Andy for hours, but I think we've covered quite a bit of ground and our time today. A big heartfelt thank you to Andy Starr, and the team at Level C. We will link to all things any star in Level C in the show notes. If you're interested in sharpening your brand chops, I highly recommend you check out their masterclasses. Well, that's the show. Until next time, make sure to visit our website www.wildstory.com where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher or via RSS so you'll never miss an episode. A lot big stories and I cannot lie. You other storytellers can't deny.