Podcasts about source awards

Första delen i berättelsen om hiphopens största ikon någonsin handlar om hur allt började, vad som drev honom och det stora genombrottet. Lyssna på alla avsnitt i Sveriges Radio Play. – My guest today has experienced a truly horrendous life, to just be 20 years old. His family portrait could well be a poster for “America's Most Wanted”. His lyrics are controversial, but also a reality of life as he has seen it.Den unga mannen ler slugt när han presenteras i tv-programmet Live From L.A. with Tanya Hart. Han bär en lila träningsoverall, svart keps bak och fram, och guldkedjor med dollartecken.– I represent 20 years on this planet earth and what I've seen. This is my report.Året är 1992 och han har snabbt gjort sig ett namn som en av USA:s mest inflytelserika rappare. Nu spås han en lysande framtid, både som artist och som skådespelare. Mannen heter Tupac Shakur.– Anything I ever say, good or bad, is coming from my heart. And if it's wrong, God ain't finished with me yet. Let him check me.Han är vältalig, intellektuell och politiskt medveten. Hans mamma och flera släktingar var medlemmar i motståndsrörelsen Svarta Pantrarna och med sin musik vill Tupac skapa riktig förändring för svarta och fattiga runt om i USA.– I wanted to show that you can be a gangster, but still know who your enemy is. And I totally denounce the statue of liberty. It's false. It's a contradiction.Tupac har hittills bara släppt en skiva, men hans musik och liv kommer å göra honom till en av världens mest ikoniska artister nånsin.Det här är del 1 av P3 Musikdokumentär om Tupac, del 2 finns att lyssna på exklusivt i appen Sveriges Radio Play.Medverkande: Jamal Joseph, Moe Z, Petter Hallén och Christopher Davie.Programmet är gjort av Robin Jonsson våren 2025Producent och programledare Joanna KorbutiakExekutiv producent Lars TruedsonSlutmix Fredrik NilssonP3 Musikdokumentär produceras av Tredje Statsmakten MediaLjudklippen i programmet kommer från Live from L.A with Tanya Hart, AP, Historic Films, Tupac: Resurrection, Indiana Black Expo, MTV, VH1, CBS News, The Source Awards, ABC News, Much, Showtime, BET, Sky News och E!

In this episode of "Hip Hop What Ifs," D and 12kyle dive into the intricacies of one of hip-hop history's pivotal moments: the 1995 Source Awards. This podcast episode reflects on Andre 3000's famous declaration that "the South has something to say," following the controversial booing that Outkast received when accepting their award for Best New Artist. The episode unpacks the significant cultural impact this statement had on the hip-hop landscape and how it symbolized a turning point for Southern artists in the industry. The discussion ventures into the implications of regional biases in hip-hop and how Outkast's experience at the 1995 Source Awards ignited a movement for Southern artists. D and 12kyle analyze the broader context of tensions between different hip-hop regions during the mid-'90s, recounting how this specific moment catalyzed a shift in the industry's power dynamics. They also explore the aftermath of this event, reviewing how it spurred the rise of Atlanta as a dominant influence in hip-hop and cemented its long-term impact on the genre's evolution Email the show at hiphopwhatif@gmail.com              Hit the Voicemail at 641-715-3900 Ext. 769558 Follow SOLC Network online Instagram: https://bit.ly/39VL542    Twitter: https://bit.ly/39aL395    Facebook: https://bit.ly/3sQn7je    To Listen to the Podcast Podbean https://bit.ly/3t7SDJH                     YouTube http://bit.ly/3ouZqJU                     Spotify http://spoti.fi/3pwZZnJ                    Apple http://apple.co/39rwjD1                              IHeartRadio http://ihr.fm/2L0A2y1   

ALASKA and Zilla look back at the nominees and winners at The 2000 Source Awards and try to guess the winners of each category. You'll hear how many snubs peak Jay-Z received, the obligatory Cash Money nominees when they first took over the industry, the guaranteed payola from Aftermath/Interscope Records, and many more Y2K albums, singles, and groups that were a real indicator of the culture! For exclusive content and all sort of perks support our patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/calloutculturepodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ You can find our music here: Zilla Rocca: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://5oclockshadowboxers.bandcamp.com/music⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Curly Castro: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://curlycastro.bandcamp.com/album/little-robert-hutton⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shrapknel.bandcamp.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Alaska: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thatrapperalaska.bandcamp.com/

This is most definitely the album that defined the south, from the live instrumentation to the piercing choruses. Andre & Big Boi captivated the youth with this cult classic. The game changed the day they walked up on that stage at the Source Awards and Andre said “The South Got Sum'n 2 Say” check out the review & Let's further the discussion in the comments section below. Donate To The Podcast | https://cash.app/$waveynuetronFollow Us On #Instagram | https://instagram.com/thetrevorjacksonpodcast?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=Tap In W/ The Family On #Twitter | https://twitter.com/trevorj865/status/1624799477323165697?s=46&t=cwguTTrEhwYeAaQMgOAY4wFollow The Group On #Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/groups/308646383559995/?ref=share_group_link#SnakeThaGreat | 10pm In #LosAngeles | Apple Music | https://music.apple.com/us/album/10pm-in-los-angeles-single/1654989802Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the copyright Act 1976. allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism. Comment. News. reporting. Teaching. Scholarship . and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copy status that might otherwise be infringing Non-profit. Educational or per Sonal use tips the balance in favor of fair use ...

Have you ever heard of “The Source Magazine?” This was one of the biggest media outlets created for Hip Hop and today we sit with the guy who created it!Today's episode is a SONW Classics. We look back to a powerful interview with Dave Mays. Co-Founder & CEO of @breakbeatmedia. Creator of The Source & The Source Awards, co-founder Hip Hop Weekly. Dave is known as a media visionary & entrepreneur. To learn more about Dave Mays follow him here   / therealdavemays  Hop into today's show and get to learn from the best.Shawn Anthony is speaking in the Podcast Summit! Podcast Summit is coming to Atlanta on July 4th. See you there!SONW Resources:Signup for PodProMax:https://podpromax.com/Signup for my new podcasting course:https://schoolsovernowwhat.thinkific.com/courses/podcast-secrets-revealed-the-courseDownload my ebook "Podcast Secrets Revealed":https://shawnanthony.lpages.co/podcast-secrets-revealed-ebook/Support SONW with Patreon and get exclusive content:/schoolsovernowwhat  Join the SONW Academy for 1-1 Coaching from Shawn:https://www.schoolsovernowwhat.com/academyAbout School's Over...Now What?Join Shawn Anthony as he talks to fearless business leaders who've shattered conventional wisdom to achieve massive success. In each weekly episode, our guests share jaw-dropping stories of overcoming seemingly insurmountable obstacles.Most importantly, they've answered the question we've all asked “School's Over…Now What?” Get inspired and access cutting-edge strategies that'll transform your business and life. New episodes every Friday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and all major podcast platforms. Contact InfoInstagram:  @shawnranthony_Website: https://www.schoolsovernowwhat.com/YouTube:  @schoolsovernowwhat  Twitter:  /shawnranthony_   Press/Interview Requests: fenton@schoolsovernowwhat.com

Våren 2024 stormar det rejält kring en av musikbranschens mäktigaste män och frågan är om det här är skandalen som till slut kommer att få honom på fall? Lyssna på alla avsnitt i Sveriges Radio Play. Solen lyser lika klart som alltid över det exklusiva området Holmby Hills i Los Angeles. Husen är enorma och trädgårdarna minutiöst manikyrerade. Fram tills nu har det verkat som en helt vanlig måndag. Men när ett hundratal poliser rullar in på South Mapleton Drive står det klart att den 25 mars 2024 är en dag som det kommer att pratas om länge i kvarteret.TV-kanalen Fox 11 sänder live när polisbilarna stannar utanför ett vitt jättemansion.– It is a very beautiful home, now they are waiting to enter.Det enorma tvåvåningshuset tillhör ingen mindre än rapparen, producenten och skivbolagsbossen Sean Combs. Även känd som Puffy, Puff Daddy och Diddy. Under dom senaste månaderna har anklagelser om allt från vapenbrott till våldtäkt och trafficking avlöst varandra och nu har alltså polisen slagit till.Det här är berättelsen om en av hiphopscenens mäktigaste spelare som var med och tog musikgenren från subkultur till mainstream. 2023 stäms han av sitt ex Cassandra “Cassie” Ventura, som menar att han bland annat ska ha misshandlat och våldtagit henne, något som Diddy förnekar. Men så i maj 2024 publicerar CNN en övervakningsfilm som förändrar allt.Det här är långt ifrån första gången Sean ”Diddy” Combs är i blåsväder, men frågan är om det här är skandalen som till slut kommer att få honom på fall?Medverkande: Petter Hallén och Ametist Azordegan.Programmet är gjort av Joanna Korbutiak i maj 2024Producent och programledare var Siri HillExekutiv producent Lars TruedsonSlutmix Fredrik NilssonLjudklippen i programmet kommer från dokumentären Biggie: I Got a Story to Tell (2021, Netflix), en intervju med BET (1997), Source Awards (1995), MTV Video Music Awards (1997), MTV Europe Music Awards (2006), BET Awards (2022), en livesändning från tv-kanalen Fox 11 (2024), nyhetssändningar från CNN (2024) och ABC News 7 (2024), samt Youtubekontot Biggie1972.

On this episode, we had a conversation about OutKast's debut album, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik. This is an album that helped redefine the sound and identity of Southern hip hop, and played a significant role in introducing the world to the unique sound and culture of the “Dirty South.” This album laid the foundation for OutKast's legendary career and established them as one of the most innovative and influential hip hop acts of all time.When you're done with this episode, if you haven't already, you can check out our 6th episode, where we talked about Andre's "the south got something' to say" speech at the 1995 Source Awards, and our 10th episode, where we discussed the entire OutKast discography.If you enjoy the content that we're making and you're looking for ways to support our independent podcast, here's a little something that you can do:Please leave us a 5 star rating or review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or Goodpods.You can also drop a few coins in our tip jar here: https://ko-fi.com/troypodcast if you're feeling generous.If it's merch that you're looking for, check out our store, Nuthin' But A Tee Thang, at teethang.comSpreading the word about the show to your friends and family helps too.However you choose to support, know that it is greatly appreciated as always.

This week on the program we welcome our friend Deremy Dove into the hallowed halls to discuss the career of funny man Tracy Morgan. Join us won't you? Transcript:[0:41] Thank you so much, Doug and Nance. It is fantastic to be here with you all.And there are quite a few of you. I can see you queued up outside the SNL Hall of Fame.My name is J.D., and it is just a thrill to be with you here on this lovely Monday.We have got a fantastic show for you.But before we go any further, I feel it necessary to tell you to wipe your feetbefore coming into the hall. all.Now, back when I was a wee lad, my mother scolded me once for making a messof the floor, and ever since then I feel compelled to tell people to wipe their feet.There. I've said it. It's finally out in the public, and I feel great.Thanks for being my therapist by proxy. The check is in the mail.The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair fair where each episode we takea deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest,or writer and add them to the ballot for your consideration.Once the nominees have been announced, we turn to you, the listener,to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity in the hall.And that's how we play the game. It's just that That simple. You listen.You vote. We tabulate. We announce.Track 2[2:06] Repeat after me. You listen. You vote.We tabulate. And we announce. Speaking of announcements, our good friend MattArdill is standing around loafing.It looks like, hey, if you've got time enough to lean, you've got time enough to clean, young man.Track 3[2:25] Hey, JD, I saw the new exhibits on the way in. I really like the Norm Macdonaldhat collection that we've got going on.Turd Ferguson, that Turd Ferguson hat and that big hat. It's funny.Yeah, you can't go wrong with a funny hat. That's right.How are you doing? I'm excellent right now. Yeah, I'm pretty good.What have you got for us this week? I have got an awesome player of Tracy Morgan.So I'm really looking forward to sharing some facts about him. Well, let's do it.Great. Well, Tracy's 5'9", born November 10th, 1968.He has 67 acting credits, five producer credits, and eight writing credits.Born in Brooklyn and raised in Marlborough Houses and Tompkins Houses in Bedford.He was actually named after a platoon mate of his father who shipped off withhis dad to Vietnam, but was killed in an action within days of deployment.Track 3[3:31] So his dad was very close to this guy, and so that's why he got that name.Um yeah he went on tomarry his high school sweetheart and began hiscomedy career at the age of 17 by performing stand-upon street corners in new york he had his datefirst debut as hustle manon the television show martin sohe's been working hard since he was akid um and it shows i meanhe lists his influences as carol burnett lucille balljackie gleason which i actually see the mostin a lot of what he does uh martin lawrenceeddie murphy and richard prior uh buthe learned about that is a great pedigree huh yeah that's athat's a really good good lineup but yeah the thingis he he says he learned his comedy first fromhis dad who taught him about jonesing whichis basically roasting people he put put himon his lap and they would roast people on the the streetand he also drew from his uncles who he said were also very funny so you knowit runs in the family um you can actually see his first stand-up gig which isan apollo theater amateur night on youtube so if you want to go out and seehis first big break it's there for you to find.Track 3[4:52] I'm going to have to watch that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't get that.See that with a lot of comedians. No. Yeah.He nicknamed all the talk show hosts that he's appeared with.So David Letterman is D rock.Jimmy Fallon is Jimbo and Conan O'Brien is C black.Track 3[5:08] The line between Tracy Morgan and Tracy Jordan is remarkably thin. That's right.Yeah. So he has lobster for dinner every day.He does in fact own sharks. He has, at this point, 15, and he has a backyard tank.And now, to be fair, he has a very close relationship with his daughter,who wants to be a marine biologist.So at least partially he's doing this for her. Oh, it's a shark pony.Track 3[5:40] Yeah, it's a shark pony. Yeah, some people get pony ponies.She got a shark pony. um yeah toentertain his daughter uh and her friends he turnshis basement into a haunted house and he goes allout to the point he every halloweenhe actually won't go into the basement because he's afraid ofthe haunted house that he sets up in his own house umthat's spectacular now he whendrinking he does have a alter ego uh namedchico divine that he describes as thethe coolest dude who would never hurt anybody but chicodid at least piss piss one person off as princekicked chico out of his house uhfollowing a pre-grammy party he got a little out of control um now the thingis this actually helped turn tracy's life around because he got a dui whichled to a confrontation between himself and his son and from that point on he's been sober.Track 3[6:39] Wow. Good for him.Track 3[7:09] So it was a real uh great great thing for him to do to honor his dad that is great,what a tear-jerking end to trivia this week yeah a little bit more serious and and uh,intense uh trivia but it was one of those things where it's like you know iwas reading it i'm like should i you know leave this out because it's a littledown but it's like it really helps explain explain a lot of his comedy and thecharacter behind Tracy.I mean, I've met people who've done shows with him and they say he's like a really sweet dude.And this is where a lot of this comes from. Awesome.Well, our friend, Jeremy Dove is here and he is down with Thomas right now.So let's turn it over to those two.Track 4[8:30] All right. Matt Ardill, JD, thank you so much for that.And I am excited today because we have, first of all, a great guest.Second of all, really interesting nominee.Track 4[8:45] Very different nominee. And I think my guest today and I talking before we hitrecord, that's kind of the word that came up was different.Tracy Morgan is such a different cast member. He has such a different vibe comparedto a lot of people that have been on the show.So this is going to be a fun one to get into. So to talk all things Tracy Morganand SNL, I have with me my guest for today, my friend, a great guest on theSNL Hall of Fame in the past.He's been on for Dick Ebersole, Adam McKay, been on a roundtable.Track 4[9:21] Great guy, I think, to chat about Tracy Morgan. Deremy Dove.Deremy, how's it going, man?Thomas, I'm honored by your kind words, and I'm honored to be here to talk aboutsomeone who is, as you said, just so different in SNL history.We're going on near 50 years, and it's always you think like, oh, you've seen it all.But with Tracy Morgan, he is one of one.He's definitely one of one. With Tracy Morgan, it's a lot about vibes.So we're going to vibe out today on some Tracy Morgan.So you're a podcaster, obviously.So you have the Bigger Than The Game podcast with Jose Ruiz. I'm a fan.Tell everyone what's been going on over at Bigger Than The Game, man.Well, we just did our most recent episode was on the 60th anniversary of SonnyListon versus Cassius Clay, who later became Muhammad Ali.And it was just, like, incredible that, like, man, it's been 60 years sincethat legendary and epic match.And it was kind of fun to look at. I know you'll enjoy this, Thomas.Track 4[10:29] In the same month, February of 1964, the Beatles went on Ed Sullivan and youngCassius Clay Muhammad Ali upset Sonny Liston to become heavyweight champion.Champion and it's like man in that month two thingsthat really changed not only the decade but the way welook at pop culture sports everything twoof the biggest figures of the 20th century the Beatles and Muhammad Ali reallyemerged all in that same month so it's just really fun to kind of get into justwhat this match set up for the rest of the decade and the rest of the 20th centuryas far as sports I love it you guys talk sports history but you break it downyou put Put it into that context.You talk about all the narratives surrounding the sporting event or whatevertopic you're talking about at the time.You and Jose do such a great deep dive into all the topics that you cover.So I love it. Thank you. Go check out Bigger Than The Game with Jeremy and Jose.And I'm told you have another podcast. Why don't you tell everyone about that?So it's this show called Pop Culture 5.It's me and this guy. What's his name? I think it's Thomas Senna oh my goshthat's right we do have a podcast together we have a show I mean who would have thought it so,that has been just so fun to do the show with you man my friend and.Track 4[11:53] We look at anything in music, movies, TV shows, and we're picking five essential things from that.So if it's TV, it's episodes, music, it could be songs for an actor, a director, movies.And we're just kind of talking about our five essentials. And depending on who'sthe host, if you're the host that week, you get three.The co-host gets two, but gets veto power.So it's really like a fun twist on it. And we've gotten nothing but great responses,and I've just really enjoyed doing the show with you, man.Yeah, I look forward to it every week, recording episodes.I love deep diving into our topics at any given week.So one week, I'm all about Nirvana.One week, I'm deep diving into Spike Lee movies and Spielberg.And so it's just been a lot of fun, man. And I think when this Tracy Morganepisode gets released, we'll be up to 25 episodes around then, something like that.Yeah. Yeah. So being released because we have some banked. So this has been– I think we found a really nice groove.Absolutely. Absolutely. Big credit to you for that, man.And you too. So everybody go check out my podcast and Deremy's podcast, Pop Culture 5.Track 4[13:14] Today, we're here on the SNL Hall of Fame. See, I got to get into SNL Hall of Fame mode.Yeah. Yeah, I was going to do this introduction like I was on Pop Culture 5,but we got to get into SNL Hall of Fame mode here.I know, it's a brain shift. It is a brain shift.So, today we're talking about Tracy Morgan here on the SNL Hall of Fame.Tracy joined the cast when he was 27. He auditioned at the same time as Stephen Colbert.Track 4[13:38] Stephen Colbert and Tracy Morgan auditioned, and Tracy auditioned with a littlekid character named Biscuit. Have you seen his audition?I have. I have seen it. Well, can you describe his audition and who Biscuit is?Because it was a really memorable audition to me. I'll be honest, right?Track 4[13:57] It's really weird. For the whole audition, there's certain people,like when you watch Phil Hartman's and Will Ferrell, and to me,it's just like, oh, that's a lock.Track 4[14:06] That guy has to be on. or even Jimmy Fallon forTracy's it was really like I'm likeman like it's not that it's not funny but it'sjust so it's just so different and unique andI'm just like I wonder what they talked aboutin the room once he like got done and saidthank you like you know what I mean because like you mentioned Biscuitand Biscuit was just this I'm probably gonnastruggle to describe but like just this odd character thathe kind of like had I feel like he did it from his stand-up days yeahit was like a little kid who was this kindof shy kid but not almost a socially awkward kidbut he would but then the premise was that he was asked torecite like a christmas poem or something yeah soit was like he was this shy kid but like hewas awkward but would kind of say these like weirdlike i don't know sassy kind of stuff at times like itwas was just really like it was differentit was just so weird for a character to biscuit littlekid named biscuit that's like definitely a tracy morgan touchon this and so like i mentioned he he and steven colbert were two of the finalistsand i've heard norm mcdonald even say like norm mcdonald was part of the selectionprocess and he watched the uh all the uh people audition and And he even said,he's like, I just assumed that Stephen was going to get it.Track 4[15:31] Yeah. We saw both of them. And even Norm said, I just thought,oh, Stephen Colbert is going to be a cast member. Right.Track 4[15:38] But I don't know. His audition, Tracy's audition won the show over, Jeremy.So one, I mean, what do you think?Track 4[15:50] It was about Tracy that might have won SNL over.And two, that's quite the what if between Stephen Colbert and Tracy. Yeah.Well, number one, I believe Tracy just has raw charisma.There's some people who they're just naturally funny.It's like the guys, like the class clown when you're in school or at the lunch table.Track 4[16:16] They just are funny. and they can almost like readthe phone book to you and they'll crack you upand Tracy has that you know a lot of times comedians they'rethey're you know it's an art form and it's trained it's timing andall those things but then there's just some who break throughwho it's just something about them they just make you all their mannerisms justmake you laugh and you can't pinpoint one specific thing you're like I likethis guy he just cracks me up and Thomas I don't know this is a hot take foryou or not but when i'm thinking about tracy morgan and getting ready for this episode.Track 4[16:52] I think this is lauren michaels most uniquehire and i also think whenit comes to judging how good of a talent evaluator lauren michaels is i go totracy morgan as number one yeah because of it's such a unique hire like thisshows me like lauren he thought outside the box when it comes to who who he's bringing on the cast.No, I don't think that's a hot take. I think I used a different word,but I think it encapsulates the same thing.We were probably both thinking along the same lines. I think it's one of Lorne's most inspired hires.That's a good word. It's a better word. No, it's a different word,but I think unique's a great word too for it. A unique hire, an inspired hire.I have to give Lorne and the other producers, I think Steve Higgins was probably,Obviously, Steve Higgins has been there forever.He's been there longer than Keenan. That's how long Steve Higgins has been there. Yes, yes.So I have to think whoever is in charge, Morrissey. Mm-hmm.Track 4[17:52] Choosing Tracy Morgan, they could have gone the easy route and chose StephenColbert and, you know, just plugged him in.But choosing Tracy was just like such a – it was a conscious,it was a deliberate choice to choose somebody like Tracy.Yeah, I'm wondering, like, if you look at the cast, like, do you think at thetime that they needed somebody like Tracy, like, to feel some sort of thing to add?Well, it's interesting because he came in 96, so he's not part of that 95 castwho saved the show again with Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry and everything.But he's still remembered as part of that group, even though he came a year later.He's still kind of grouped in with those guys as part of the group that kind of saved the show.So it's interesting because that's one season kind of removed from the toughesttime Lorne has really had on the show where like the network executives werekind of breathing down his neck and being like, you got to get the show funnier.And, you know, you kind of lost. And we've talked about this before.We kind of understand where they're coming from. That 94, 95 season was not really that good.So I think he was looking for people to kind of had an original voice.I think you hear Lawrence say that a lot when he's doing those interviews.I think he wanted people who were original and kind of got back to.Track 4[19:21] Snl really is and i think he wanted someone totracy's credit who people like towork with and was easy to work with too and ithink that's also a big thing that people don't talk about for tracyi'm glad you mentioned about the show's originalvibe and hearken back to that because there's an element of tracy that i thinkis part of the spirit of the original snl and that's almost that danger aspectyes yes like that unpredictability and that's that's a good thing and tracycould be unpredictable but in like a controlled way he's still a professional,he's still you know it's not like he sabotaged sketches ordid anything like that tracy was a professional but he had this aura vibe abouthim that was uh dangerous or unpredictable i think that did harken back to theoriginal time then that was something to me they probably wanted to shy awayfrom that in season 21 because they had just come off of sandler and farley and they were.Track 4[20:18] Dangerous quote-unquote and unpredictable but it got to bea disruption on the show i think right i thinkthey maybe consciously didn't hire somebody like that for the immediate seasonfollowing sandler and farley and those guys but maybe they re-evaluated andlike let's get somebody who can add that danger that unpredictability i meanis there something to Am I just being a weird SNL fan? No, no. I think there is.It was that tamed. Like you said, it's a controlled danger.It wasn't someone that, oh, he's off the rails and is not willing to work.And I think also he brought a confidence, too, where just from Tracy's background,his upbringing, you know, doing stand-up, I think, as well.Like there's a difference between being an improv actor and being a stand-upcomic. and I think Tracy just kind of did...Track 4[21:11] Not to say he's in this person's ballpark overall as far as SNL,but one thing about Eddie Murphy,when he was a part of that cast that replaced the original people from the firstfive years, a lot of those guys, and I understand, rightfully so,they're replacing the epic first five years. They were scared.They were nervous, all this pressure, the presses on them, and everyone alwayssaid Eddie just had a confidence where he didn't care.He's like, I know I'm good. I'm doing it. And I'm not saying Tracy's Eddie Murphy,but Tracy kind of always gives a confidence of, I know who I am.I don't care what you think. I'm here. I'm ready to go.And I think that's what Tracy kind of really brought. I feel like Lorne andthe others kind of saw in him.He wouldn't be scared of the moment. No, I definitely agree.And Tracy was confident in the material. He's like, I know this is funny.I know my inflection's funny. I just know what's funny about this.And so I'm going to get on screen and show you. So that, yeah,that's such a good point.And I think another element, especially around this time, 96,when Tracy got hired, that fascinates me.It's hard to think about Tracy getting cast around this time,to me, without thinking about SNL's history, somewhat tenuous history with black cast members.Track 4[22:26] So I'm wondering, Jeremy, like, can you talk about the show's history with blackcast members, like up until that point, and even like on?On yeah yeah it's always it's beensomething um i remember when ifirst saw tracy do stand-up comedy was after hehad left snl but people in the crowd wereyelling out like you know brian fellows and everything and hemade the joke that honestly my whole life i heard which is like black peopledon't watch snl except for when eddie murphy was on there right in my wholelife people my own family a lot of said i felt weird because me and my brotherliked it but they were like ohwe don't watch that except for when Eddie Murphy was on and it was always,you saw what happened in the original cast with Garrett Morris and how,you know, he really was neglected and just kind of stereotyped and.Track 4[23:15] Made to just either wear drag or just play this token black.And I think Eddie Murphy, he talked about his struggles and he had those battlestoo, but he was such a star and the show had no stars.So he kind of really emerged and became that guy.But then you see Damon Wayans came and he had struggles and just frustrationsof being that only black voice.Track 4[23:40] And you're seeing a room filled with white people who don't understand you.Not willing to really understand you becausethey're going to go to this performer who they either knowor feel like will get their work over better they're notsitting down trying to understand your comedic sensibility understandyour background and you know you saw that from damonit went to you know chris rock had the same battles and hereally struggled there where everyone here knows chrisrock and legendary stand-up comic but if hewasn't who he became came after SNL no one reallyremembers what Chris Rock did in that time and that'sa glorious time those early 90s of SNL soreally you look at from Eddie Murphy by thetime Tracy comes on there you know Tim Meadows was onbut he you know did his roles andstuff like that but didn't really like stripe it and I feel likenow he gets a little more appreciation forhis time on SNL but I feel like he was kind of like an underrated hecould do a lot of things but minus likeyou know the oj when the oj trial happenedi feel like that kind of helped him out and then the ladies man a little bitbut never really got that shining star treatment that i think tim meadows shouldhave gotten too so i think tracy is really an interesting um i guess like amarker for blacks being on the show where.Track 4[25:05] He still battled it too, and I know we'll talk about that, but he kind of reallyset the stage to me for Kenan, for Leslie Jones, Jay Pharoah.He was that guy to kind of really set the stage for seeing SNL starting to improveon that relationship with Black cast members.Oh, that's really great perspective and well put. And even though we're allSNL fans, love the show, I wouldn't be doing an SNL podcast if I didn't love the show.But there's also in the show's 49-year history stuff that they need to reckon with.You know, this is their treatment of women, their treatment of black cast members,maybe not enough representation.Yeah. Even like as a Latino myself, I always kind of look like about Latinorepresentation as well.I mean, that's just the reality of it and something that I know.You know, SNL, about when Leslie got hired, that's something that they madea conscious effort to get a black woman onto the show.And that was almost spearheaded by Kenan, telling them, you know what,look, you need to hire a black woman.Track 4[26:16] Plenty of qualified black women to do a lot of these roles. You need to get one on the gas.No. Oh, and I think it was shown in the conversations. Like,you look at it when In Living Color came out in the early 90s and just like,okay, then what are we saying here?Like, there's this show on Fox that's reaching this other demographic.And then people are kind of, like, I think kind of trying to say,like, oh, there's not that whole excuse of, well, there's no one to bring on.And it's like, that was a lie. You saw from the Weyans to all these different people.You know, it's funny that Damon Wayans, this great comedic talent,was on Saturday Night Live and was just misused and then becomes an all-timesketch performer on In Living Color, you know, four years later.Like, what's that say to you? Exactly. He was so frustrated on SNL that he sabotaged a sketch. Yeah.The Monopoly Man sketch with John Lovitz. Like, Damon just sort of sabotaged it and he wanted out.Right. Right, and Chris Rock leaves SNL to go to In Living Color because he'slike, hey, that's where my voice will be heard.Now, he picked bad timing because it was the way in –.Track 4[27:26] They left One Living Color, so his timing was off. But the decision to me wascorrect, where it's like, yeah, who's going to get your voice heard and understood?It's like, not Saturday Night Live. And Chris Rock has said there were so manygreat comedic minds from JimDowney, Al Franken, Lorne, and great cast members, great friends of his.But still, he wasn't being represented and wasn't being heard there.Yeah, I think it's an important discussion. and that's whyI think Tracy's one of the many reasons why Tracy's such aninteresting figure to me as far as Tracy goes Jeremy likehow did you get introduced to him how are you like most familiar withTracy was it SNL you see you mentioned his stand-up yeah so he was someone Ibeing you know I know you are too big fan of stand-up comedy you I would seehim on different things and different tapes and stuff like that but honestlyit was Saturday Night Live where it It was like, I was like, oh, that dude.I saw him on like the Apollo doing stand-up and everything.Back when the, you know, Steve Harvey used to host the Apollo and it would air Saturday nights.And I remember seeing Tracy Morgan. And then when I saw him on Saturday NightLive, I was like, oh, that guy.Because like this mid-90s era is when I really started watching SNL live.Track 4[28:40] I would watch the reruns before, but like watching it live was kind of like around 93, 94.So I was really kind of getting into my SNLlike fandom you know the year before and then whenTracy arrived so it was kind of cool to see and ofcourse as a black man when you saw like that other oh they brought on a blackcast member male or female you kind of like oh okay let's see what how theydo and Tracy Tracy in his own way shined through yeah yeah that's awesome soSo we mentioned he started in 96 at SNL was on the show until 2003.What's a we'll dive into it. What's the character sketch that kind of firststicks out to you during Tracy's time?Track 4[29:25] It's one that I kind of, I'll be honest, I didn't really like at first,and a lot of people, like, disagreed with me, like friends, but Brian Fellows is funny.Like, I will give Brian Fellows, and I kind of thought it was,like, overdone and stuff like that, but as I look back on it,and I'm like, you know what, that is, it's classic Tracy.And just the way he does that and just him being this Safari,Brian Fellows, Safari planet and this animal enthusiast, but doesn't have anyidea about any of the animals and always kind of got freaked out by him.And it is really, he's playing Brian Fellows, but in all honesty,it's just different forms of Tracy in all these sketches.That's really funny to me. Our first guest is like a human cactus.Please welcome our porcupine.Track 4[30:16] Ooh, and who are you? I'm Dale Dudley from the Texas Wildlife Sanctuary in Austin. Hello, Austin.Track 4[30:26] No, I'm from the Wildlife Sanctuary in Austin. My name is Dale Dudley. I'm Brian Fellow.Hello, Brian. I want you to meet my porcupine friend. His name is Willie.That rat needs a haircut.So that one and then the classic Christmas band member. I thought, yeah, I loved that.I loved it when it happened. I remember watching it live and loving it.And I still love it to this day when they kind of all got back together likea few years ago to do it. I always loved that.And I love Tracy in it. And just his facial expression always cracked me up.Those are just a couple of the memorable sketches or in moments with Tracy thatI have. I'm glad you brought up Brian Fellow's safari plan at first,and not just because I think this was the most times that he did a character.I think he did it nine times on SNL, so I think that was his most recurring character.But it just, to me, the story behind this just totally encapsulates Tracy's time at SNL and why...Track 4[31:29] He's successful, I think, in a major way.So Norm MacDonald, again, Norm, said that this came about because he and RobertSmigel wrote the Brian Fellows sketch as kind of a rib on Tracy because of theway Tracy would pronounce his S's.Like they wanted to mess with Tracy at the table read and give him somethinghard to read because of how he pronounced stuff.And as far as iknow they did like tracy like norman smigel idon't know like as far as i know yeah yeah smigel sayinganything bad about tracy so i guess itwas all in good fun but i love this becausetracy took something that was supposed to be a jokeon him and turned it into something that was his own andsuper memorable like he's he he basically waslike yeah screw this like in his own little way likethis is supposed to be a rib on me but the joke's onyou because i'm going to make this like a really successful sketch and a characterso that's a big reason why like to me that almost encapsulates big reason whytracy's just successful just in general right he just keeps on yeah and andyou hit on a couple things here which is like,you know rip norm and you know smigel is a great great all-time writer but justlike Like, how messed up that is.Track 4[32:53] And, like, that's a small example of that cultural difference where,like, that wouldn't happen to him on In Living Color.You know what I mean? Or, like, whatever that day's Key and Peele or Chappelleshow, that wouldn't have happened to him.Right. He would have had writers in there who understood, who knew him,like, know his background.They can relate to him. They kind of, like, did it as a spoof.And to your point, Tracy took it. And I think that's what makes Tracy greatis there's just a confidence about him and a no fear kind of mentality.Like because he has that background and I think like, hey, I was out here,you know, selling different items in front of Yankee Stadium a few years ago,you know, just trying to make, you know, $30.So I'm on NBC on Saturday Night Live. What do I have to lose?So he has that kind of fear that was like, all right, you want to like mock it?Fine, let's go. Oh, and he takes it and makes it his most memorable character. Yeah, absolutely.Track 4[33:53] And the sketch itself, his delivery is so great.I think the just genius part about it is Tracy does these characters and hehas this delivery to where it seems like it's an accident.It seems like he's not putting a lot into it, but it's by design.A lot of his inflection, his timing, him being amped up Tracy Morgan,it's by design because he knows that that's going to get the laughs.He knows how to pull laughs from people. Like Brian Fellowes.Track 4[34:26] Just how he pauses or how somebody will say their name on the show and thenhow he'll pause and say, he'll say, well, I'm Brian Fellow.Track 4[34:35] Tracy knows that that pause and then his kind of shoulder shake,the delivery is going to pull the laugh.So it seems like he makes it look so easy and natural, but it's just by designbecause Tracy has that comedic mind.I always was entertained by the Brian Fellow Safari planet because of that.No, and to me, like you said, it was by design. It's just that inflection.But what he did, which I feel like Chris Rock didn't do, and I think a lot ofthe people who were stand-ups on the show before him didn't do,is when you're not an improv person who knows how to do that,like working with others and different characters and acting,a lot of times they say if you're on SNL as a stand-up, it's best to be on aweekend update or have a solo thing where you're on a show.You're looking in camera and kind of doing your own thing, almost like you'redoing standup and Chris rock didn't really figure that out. Right.But I think Tracy, when you have like, you know, he would have a guest on, but from Brian fellows,astronaut Jones, different things, he kind of found his lane and kind of pokedand reconstructed like improv and sketch by doing this, these individual charactersthat really highlighted his sensibility.Yeah. And with astronaut Jones again, like he made it look like,Oh, oh, that's just Tracy playing himself.Track 4[35:57] But he just knew his delivery. Maybe there's danger.He knew how to tap into just how to say something.That one in particular, Ashton Jones, is almost like anti-comedy in a way.There's a big old theme song.Track 4[36:38] The sketch itself is anticlimactic. Oh, yeah.But that's like a lot of anti-comedy. And then Tracy just has to do like just a few little things.I'm just, the Britney Spears astronaut Jones is the one that I always went back to.My name is Craig Ellera. I'm the queen of Orpheoleans. A proud and peace-lovingrace. My people have been awaiting your arrival for some time now.We're in desperate need of your help. The Galaxians have besieged our citiesand plundered our riches. What?Say what? Right. Dig. Uh-huh. Right.Well, why don't you drop out of that green jumpsuit and show me that fat ass?Track 4[37:25] It's like a one-joke thing, but it's like anti-comedy in a way, but that's just like,you brought up such a good point, Jeremy, me earlier abouttracy's just a different funny personhe's like that got the your friend at the lunch table yourfriend who just makes you you should read the phone book and crackyou up and things like astronaut jones arelike a perfect example to me no for sure actuallyand you you nailed it on what makes that you know that because i rememberthat britney spears and it was almost what was funnywas just a dichotomy of having britney and tracy togetherand it's like the odd couple effect waslike that cracked you up just being like britney spearsand tracy morgan like having even though like it's scripted andstuff but like having a conversation it just was odd but like itwas that alone made you laugh but i remember um i think it was season 25 andjamie fox was the host and it was a time where uh it was like you know in betweenwe're like you know jamie's walking and tracy's like oh what's up jamie what'sup man he goes i'm glad we got some some brothers on the show,and Jamie's like, oh, yeah, yeah.Because Tracy's like, yo, these writers don't understand me.They don't get me or that dude with the white hair.And Jamie's like, you mean Lorne Michaels?Track 4[38:38] He's like, I don't know, whatever. He's like, he's your boss.He's like, yeah, he's just always saying weird stuff and doing weird things.And he's like, I'm going to be on the show a lot this week with you here,and we're going to take over. Revolution will be televised.And Jamie's like, yeah, you know, he kind of looks all quiet,like he's sneaking something.He's like, you're right, man, we're going to take over. I got mad lines,man, and this week I'm blowing up the spot.That's what I'm saying. All right, come on, let's go. We're in the middle ofa show. Okay? Yeah, yeah, all right.Jamie? Give me a soda, bitch!Track 4[39:16] Okay all right but it was one ofmy favorite tracy morgan moments because he just just thatline get me a soda like he just nailedit bitch yeah yeah bitch and lauren just goes okaylike i'm like that was great that was like that dangerousaspect of tracy i always love likehe's he's like one of the only ones that could pull that offconvincingly quite honestly we're inseason 49 and i think the current cast ismissing someone like that for sure if they tryto do a backstage and like i wouldn't andrews music is myfavorite cast member currently i don't think hecould pull that off convincingly james austin johnson idon't think keenan can it's not in keenan's nature necessarilyto like pull that off convincingly they don't havesomeone currently like tracy morgan thatadds that kind of unpredictability danger thisbackstage stage stuff with lauren that he did he because he did that a fewtimes the garth brooks one was another yes funny oneto me when he was talking to garth brooks and he was like manthat chris gaines i don't know like uh you're doinga great job garth but like what's up with that chris gaines guy and whateverand then lauren comes to talks to tracy and and he's like hey tracy you knowand then tracy's like no i know i know i know garth is chris gaines i know thatso it's almost like yeah yeah like a turnabout like he's just telling laurenlike i know that you like you got to give Give me some credit.Track 4[40:37] And then I don't know if it was this one or another one where all he has todo is look at Lauren and Lauren goes, orange soda, right? Yeah.Track 4[40:47] So credit to Lauren for playing along. But Tracy's the only one or one of thefew, I think, over the last 25 years or so that could pull something off likethat convincingly. And I think you're right.And it's not a knock on cast members past or present. you said Kenan's greatthat's just not who he is and the people who were on with Tracy that's not who they were like.Track 4[41:13] You can't find like you can't teach that what tracyhad like just like it just comes fromit's part natural part upbringing inyour experiences but like i i alwaysthink about something um jim brewertold a story uh i forget what radioshow he was on but he talks about you knowhim and tracy kind of were high around the same time and itwas the week that you know tragically like when farley cameand hosted and how he was just not in not ingood good shape and uh marcyhe said marcy went to because he was not doingwell during the week and not showing up and was not all thereso he was trying to hang out withlike different people in the cast and jim brewer's like me andtracy weren't doing that but then like marcy andpeople were looking at those to and kind of putit on them like oh you two must be getting chris into troubleand so they said marcy went intolike the office talked to jim and tracy and waslike you two need to stay away from chris so doall these things and like leave him alone and jim brewerwas like you know i'm new so i got nervous and scared andhe said credit to tracy he said tracy stood upand said i'm a grown man with children's you can't talk tome that way i got children's you ain't gonna talk tome like that and he was like but credit to him he's likehe's i didn't do nothing i'm a grown man with children's andi'm like yeah and jim brewer said andi'm like right like he was like no new or not you're not going to come in and.Track 4[42:43] Accuse me something i didn't do and disrespect me i'm gonna stick up for myself.Track 4[42:46] And jim brewer's like he got courage from seeing tracy to be like yeah we didn'tdo anything we didn't take chris out we're not the bad influences here don'tyell at us but that But Tracy was new,and him doing that to Marcy, who's a high-up person,that shows the kind of courage he came in with.Well, yeah, that's that thing where you were right.You alluded to, I mean, he was selling things outside of Yankee Stadium justa few years back, and now he's on SNL. He made it.Track 4[43:18] He's making that salary. That's why he said during a...When he was going to his audition, he was confident because he was like,I shouldn't even be here.The fact that I'm in this last audition, I got nothing to lose.I'm going to go in here and just show my stuff and just be confident.That's just how he carried himself. He's almost like, I shouldn't be here.I already won. The fact that I'm in this room, I already won,so I'm not going to compromise myself and stand down to Marcy Klein or something like when she comes in.Track 4[43:52] And tries to yell at us for something that we didn't do, especially.That just speaks a lot to how Tracy even got to the show. Right.No, for sure. For sure. It just kind of shows, especially by the time you getto the 90s and on, even before then, but that is the goal of so many improv actors.Whether you're at Second City or the Groundlings or whatever,is to make it to Saturday Night Live.That's the goal. So then, of course, no matter how talented you are,if you're on that level and trying to get to SNL, if you get there,you're going to be, especially early on, nervous.And I'm not knocking anyone, but scared because this was your dream.This is the big time SNL. I can make it here.I can maybe be a movie star or a TV star from here.So then you're trying to kiss up to the writers and the big time producers.Juicers i think it was an advantage for a guy like tracymorgan you know same like it was for eddie back in theearly 80s that wasn't his they were stand up likethat wasn't their goal and it was just like all right like we know what it'slike to be in front of this crowd on our own and having to make someone laughand when i come here like i'm not intimidated by this stage i made it the factthat i'm already here i made it here let's go what's the worst that could happen to me Yeah,that speaks to why we're even talking about him right now and why he...Track 4[45:18] Resonates as such a fan favorite because it'shis personality it's kind of the vibe that thatTracy gives off that that compel peopleto watch that draw people to him and it comes through in the sketches and hisand his work on SNL for sure like I have a bunch of example I don't know ifyou remember this one it's toward the end if it's like his second to last seasonand he and Rachel Dratch had a it was a one-off thing it was a talking to thestars with Rachel and Tracy and they were talking to Jon Stewart.All right, well, hosting an awards show of that caliber must be quite stressful.Y'all like to get high, right?Track 4[45:59] Uh, no, no, I don't. What? Get real, Dratch.I've been backstage at those awards shows, man. The Source Awards was like Weed City, bruh.Come on, tell me. Y'all like to get lifted, right? Uh, lifted.Lifted um i find if tracy says aword that i don't know it usually means hi oh okay andthis showed like that loose loose canon element oftracy and just like how tracy mightbe if you're just hanging out with him and the bit was like thatrachel dratch is taking the interview with john store.Track 4[46:32] Very seriously she has her cards and she'sasking him questions and tracy's just being tracy he'sjust goofing around he's ribbing dratch he's asking johnstore inappropriate questions ends and that's justlike the vibe like that that one uh thatsketch with with rachel dratch like that perfectly encapsulatesjust that whole vibe to me darren likelike there's a reason like i heard you kind of breakinto a tracy morgan voice like there's areason why people want to like imitate tracy soi'm gonna take you outside and get you pregnant like peoplejust want to get you you pregnant doodoo pampasyeah jay moore does a great there's a great oh yeahbut uh there's a reason why peoplejust want to imitate him and love him and want toimitate his mannerisms and the way he you know because hejust gives off that like vibe yeah there'ssomething that he has that is rare thatsometimes it's more valuable than if you're the most polished orthe best the best writer or the best you know setupguy and you you can see it with certain peopleand you know pop culture even like in politics there'scertain people who have they just have a likability that comes through the screenand people just you like no matter what they might even portray the worst charactersthat are you know they're delivering bad news but you know what people justreally like this person and i think tracy even in that sketch with rachel dratch.Track 4[48:00] You just like Tracy Morgan. I think a lot of us fans just always liked him andgravitated toward him, which is why then and now, for those years,for that era, you hear Will Ferrell, Sherry O'Terry,Molly Shannon, but you're going to hear Tracy Morgan being mentioned too.To me, not just because of what he's done post-SNL, just talking about thatera SNL, for as he wasn't someone who was always used, I think it's incrediblethat we still talk about that era in the show's history,and one of the first names we're going to talk about is Tracy Morgan.Track 4[48:35] Yeah, yeah, right. That's why this is probably a different feeling episode,even for the SNL Hall of Fame, which is fitting to me with Tracy Morgan.He was just a different feeling kind of cast member, just a different dude that we all love.You had mentioned his stand-up, and I've seen a little bit of it.How would you describe his stand-up comedy? buthe raw and all over the place i'veseen him twice and i'll be honest the first time wasat i was at temple university um andhe was about an hour and a half late and hecame out and he seemed unprepared hehad some funny lines just because tracy's funnybut he seemed unprepared and it was kind of like underwhelmingi'll be honest okay i went a couple years later andsaw him new york in New York at a comedy club and heseemed much he was still that like we talked aboutthat raw like danger feel but likehe was more prepared he was on time and he was a lot better as a stand-up comedyso he it's almost in a way what he brings to SNL he still brings to stand-upwhich is I would never say Tracy's like number one stand-up of all time butI would tell anyone like would Would you like,should I buy a ticket to see Tracy Morgan do state? I would say,yeah, because you're going to laugh.Track 4[49:56] You're going to have a good time because of all the things we're talking about.He's just charisma, that sense of danger. You don't know what he's going to say.He doesn't care. He's not afraid of being canceled or not afraid of like someonefrom the crowd may shout something.Track 4[50:10] He's not like worried about that. He's going to fire right back or go along with it.You're going to be entertained and you're going to end up liking him.If you don't know him or you're not sure, you're going to like Tracy.So it's that same kind of vibe.Same vibe. So there's a sense of danger when he does stand-up.But maybe it's a little more chaotic because he doesn't have Lauren or SteveHiggins or Marcy Klein or the censors on him.But similar vibes. Yeah, that's how I felt with some of the stand-up that I'veseen just on YouTube or going back and watching some of bits and pieces of hisspecials or whatever. Yeah.Uh just some quick hitters too from SNL like probably some stuff that a lotof people would remember Dominican Lou.I love to watch the movies the Sling Blade, the Eddie Maguire and the English Pages.It's a good movie a lot of people they enjoy this movie they love to see itthey love to see the Tom Cruise it's very good for them they like it.Track 4[51:18] What was your favorite part of the movie i don't knowi didn't see it i have notime i'm working all the time you know but ihear it's a good movie it's a good movie people in the building they're talkingabout it a lot they love the movie they like to see the movie all the time they'retalking about it oh hell yeah he did three times i love dominican lou becauseit was like Like, Dominican Lou was this, it was a perfect,like, it's a very specific archetype of a person.It's the person who wants to be part of the conversation, but they haven't really,like, lived it themselves.So, Dominican Lou's always like, yeah, like, this thing was good.I hear everybody talking about it. So, he's not really giving his opinion.He's saying that, like, I heard people in the building talk about it.So, it's like this person who really wants to be part of the conversation.They want to be clued in. but they don't have like the firsthand experiencethemselves so they only have a certain amount of,like i said firsthand experience to go off of so he's always like living vicariouslythrough others yeah and he's fine with it yeah you know what you just said somethingthat and maybe i don't know how people will react to this but.Track 4[52:31] When it comes to, like, you look at, like, the legacy of a Dan Aykroyd,one of the things people talk about is the everyday, everyman characters thathe brought to, you know, sketch comedy and Saturday Night Live.That, like, blue-collar guy that everyone knows, but you didn't really see on,you know, sketch and on TV yet, like, being portrayed that way.And I'm wondering, I feel like Tracy Morgan, even though he has some outrageouscharacters, some of his characters kind of—he kind of brought that, too, where—.Track 4[53:01] But not like his main one, not like Brian Fellows or anything,but like Dominican Lou and some other ones like that, where it's like, you know that guy.Yeah. You know that guy, and it was the kind of representation you weren't reallyseeing on Saturday Night Live before.I think you're absolutely right. I see a little bit of that,too, in his Woodrow character.Yes. Obviously, it's like a heightened kind of thing, but I mean,you've come across someone like that.Mm-hmm. And I can see that. And the commonality, too, is like there's some heartunderneath there, too, because somebody like Woodrow, even Brian Fellows,like I root for him. Yeah. He's likable.And we had brought up Britney Spears with the Astronaut Jones,but it was like Britney Spears and Woodrow had had she did a Woodrow sketchwith him and they went they were hanging out in the sewer and having a little conversation.And there's something about how tracy portrayed woodrowwho's this uh he's a homeless gentleman yeahan eccentric homeless gentleman who told britney spears that uh that he hasthe the post office box down there because the because that's where they werehaving keeping secrets on him so he stole it and put it down in the sewer sohe says kind of goofy stuff like that but But there's a lot of human quality.There's a lot of humanity in a character like that. I think it's easy for Tracyto bring that humanity, I think, too.Track 4[54:31] And I kind of wonder, because you mentioned... I know that episode,and I remember all the sketches.Those were two different episodes, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,okay, they're two different ones. I'm wondering, do you think...Track 4[54:45] Britney Spears kind of requested to be with Tracy in some sketches, you think?Or something because it's like, Britney Spears, I mean, people still,I think, know how big she is.But at that point, she's like, you can make a case like the hottest star outthere is Britney Spears.It's not Will Ferrell in these weird ones. It's Tracy Morgan doing these things.So I'm just like, I wonder if Britney was a fan or it could have been the writersjust thinking that's an odd couple pairing.But it's interesting. now that's a good thought so she did thewoodrow one with him in season 25 at the end of season 25and she came back in season 27 that's where they did the astronaut jones andif you watch re-watch the astronaut jones sketch at the end when he says hislike famous when he says his famous line as astronaut jones oh why don't youdrop out of that green jumpsuit and show me that fat ass.Track 4[55:38] When he says that you could see britney laughand i don't know or she's like smiled and i don't know ifthat was supposed to happen like the character because ifshe was supposed to be this robotic alien but when tracysays that you see britney crack a smile at the end and then they go to the themeto the ending credits for the sketch i kind of do think that britney likes tracyand enjoyed and enjoyed working working with him that's like that's a good thoughtman that's It's something that's a good thing to pick up.Yeah, I was just like, because it's just not, for all the people who were onSNL at the time, it's like you could have put a lot of people with Britney Spears,but it's very memorable. So, yeah, I was just wondering, yeah.Yeah, no, I love that. One of my other favorite ones, one of my last favoriteones is Uncle Jemima's Pure Mash Liquor. Yes, yes.Classic. I love the concept of Aunt Jemima's husband having his own product.And he even says in the commercial, like, they asked me, like,why mash liquor? And he's like, well, sell what you know.And I know, like, so Tracy's whole delivery of this sketch was just so greatto hear me. Oh, it was classic.Track 4[56:46] Now she says that selling booze is degrading to our people.I always say that black folk ain't exactly swelling up with pride on accountof you flipping Framjack.Ain't I right, Sammy? Listen, don't get me in this mess. Then she say,but why booze? I said, sell what you know.And I know about booze.Uncle Jemima's Pure Man Snicker has a 95% alcohol content, and that's per volume.Track 4[57:15] What the hell does that mean? That means you get up for less money.And that might be my low-key favorite one.Track 4[57:26] Great like you said like just who wouldhave thought about that like to like you know everyone and jemimaand how controversial and jemima can be looked on and for him to kind of goin there and do like her husband and kind of doing that like you know i getno respect and i gotta sell something to here and don't forget about me feelit was just classic tracy morgan i'm like that's it's a genius character honestlyyeah it's great they only did it one time i would have led to see Uncle Jemima pop up,even more and he has those cartoon birds around him andhe's swatting at them and then at the end Tim Meadows calls itout he's like what are you swatting at he asked him that's hilarious I forgotyep that's so good yeah that's so good that's from season 25 Uncle Jemima'sPure Mash Liquor yeah that was awesome is there anything else like well I thinkthis was after his tenure but,you know everyone I know is excited for the,the big SNL 50th celebration and, you know, how epic the S the 40th was,but Tracy had had that accident that, you know, his friend tragically passed away.And a lot of people thought Tracy, you know, weren't sure if he was going to survive that accident.And Tracy was absent from SNL 40.And I know Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey gave, he had a special little segment wherethey gave shout out to him. And I thought how even in the moment then and even more like now I.Track 4[58:53] How big that was that a lot of times, you know, it's sad, but that those kindof things go to like the cast members or people who have passed away.And Tracy wasn't hadn't passed. He was, you know, just injured.Track 4[59:04] But like he had that kind of lore and Alec Baldwin, you know,did a great impression of him, too.And that part, you know, was dead on. Actually, I was really good by Alec Baldwin.But in that moment, it kind of hit me like, yeah, that was somebody who wasso missing from that celebration.Inspiration and I'm like yeah I wish Tracy Tracy wouldhave been so good in that sketch or in that thinglike oh but awesome but just also like theimpact that Tracy made that for at that 

Welcome to the Gaslit Nation State of the Union Super Special! This episode has everything! Suge Knight dissing Diddy at the 1995 Source Awards! World War II era journalist Dorothy Thompson's warnings about Katie Britt! A dictator loving pope! George W. Bush's pandora's box of evil! A smirking Russian oligarch on the Oscars' stage! You've never heard a state of our union analysis, and where we must go from here, quite like this.  Terrell Starr of the essential Black Diplomats Podcast and Substack joins Andrea to roast Katie Britt and her antiChrist diamond cross and what it says about the GOP's Christofascist war against our democracy. The conversation includes the history of white women like Britt enforcing the genocide of slavery, and Andrea and Terrell accidently calling Steve McQueen's masterpiece film Seven Years a Slave! (Yes, we now recall it's 12 Years a Slave!) Andrea shares the story of how she once went undercover as a self-hating Republican woman at a GOP fundraiser and almost got caught by being the only woman who dared to eat food!    Our bonus this week, for subscribers at the Truth-teller level and higher, exposes the Kremlin Caucus and their financial backers. That episode will feature Olga Lautman and Monique Camarra of the Kremlin File podcast. To our supporters at the Democracy Defender level and higher, submit your questions for our upcoming Q&A! We always love hearing from you! Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!    Fight for your mind! To get inspired to make art and bring your projects across the finish line, join us for the Gaslit Nation LIVE Make Art Workshop on April 11 at 7pm EST – be sure to be subscribed at the Truth-teller level or higher to get your ticket to the event!    Join the conversation with a community of listeners at Patreon.com/Gaslit and get bonus shows, all episodes ad free, submit questions to our regular Q&As, get exclusive invites to live events, and more!    Check out our new merch! Get your “F*ck Putin” t-shirt or mug today! https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/57796740-f-ck-putin?store_id=3129329   Thank you to the sponsor of this week's episode! Andrea got to try Factor, and now her listeners can, too, with this special deal! Head to FACTORMEALS.com/gaslit50 and use code “gaslit50” to get 50% off. That's code “gaslit50” at FACTORMEALS.com/gaslit50 to get 50% off!    Listen to and support the Black Diplomats Podcast: https://www.blackdiplomats.net/   Listen to and support the Black Diplomats Substack: https://terrellstarr.substack.com/about   Watch 20 Days in Mariupol (full documentary) | Academy Award® Winner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAyykRvPBo   Why Haiti Collapsed: Demanding Reparations,and Ending Up in Exile https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/world/americas/haiti-aristide-reparations-france.html   President Biden on hot mic says he needs a 'come to Jesus' meeting with Netanyahu https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/03/08/biden-hot-mic-moment-underscores-growing-frustration-with-netanyahu/72899225007/   Journalist catches Sen. Katie Britt in an 'out and out lie' in her State of Union response https://www.rawstory.com/katie-britt-out-and-out-lie/   Pope Francis: questions remain over his role during Argentina's dictatorship https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/14/pope-francis-argentina-military-junta   With Haiti on the Brink of Collapse, a Reckoning for US Policy on Haiti https://www.justsecurity.org/93193/with-haiti-on-the-brink-of-collapse-a-reckoning-for-us-policy-on-haiti/   Biden's State of the Union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq9vmRd67lc   Clip: Jonathan Glazer acceptance speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMc1khOqEFE    Clip: Suge Knight at The Source Awards https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=QHg1JImJqIZ7xkB5&v=mv2OMXngkEs&feature=youtu.be   We didn't end up including this clip in this week's episode, but it's worth watching: Katie Britt Appears on ‘Inside the Actors Studio' in Edited Version of Her Scorned GOP Response https://www.thewrap.com/katie-britt-inside-the-actors-studio-video/   Pope Francis: questions remain over his role during Argentina's dictatorship https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/14/pope-francis-argentina-military-junta#:~:text=The%20Catholic%20church%20and%20Pope,evidence%20is%20sketchy%20and%20contested.

The Diddy Dilemma: How Ex-Bad Boy Stars Can Protect Their Careers and Legacies, LIVE AND IN PUBLIC, IF YOU WILL on this week's episode of IF THE SHOES FIT, a show where we solve salacious situations by stepping into the shoes of the shaken...the chagrined...the kerfuffed! I'm your host Alexei Auld, author of 7 Secret Sources of Inspiration: A Snappy Guide for Creative Procrastinators, and joining me are guests John Nash from Hey Not The Face Podcast and Eugene S Robinson, author of the memoir, “A Walk Across Dirty Water and Straight Into Murderer's Row”. Collectively the Puncholes. For the archives, join our Patreon. patreon.com/iftheshoesfit. Now let's get to stepping! Step into the shoes of any former Bad Boy Recording Artist. Back in the day, Sean Combs was, as Suge Knight put it in the Source Awards, all in your videos, all on your records, dancing. Today, with another sexual assault and harassment allegation, how do you prevent Diddy's diddling with your artistic legacy and killing nostalgia driven financial opportunities, live and in public, if you will? Step into the shoes of Kelloggs. Your CEO solved poverty by suggesting the poors eat cereal for dinner. “Cereal for dinner is something that is probably more on trend now, and we would expect to continue as that consumer is under pressure.” If Willy Wonka invented a gum that contained an entire three-course dinner, should you create tomato soup…roast beef with baked potato…and blueberry pie with ice cream flavored Froot Loops, live and in public, if you will? REGULAR FEATURE: LEGION OF DOOM REGULAR FEATURE: MISTYAF THANKS FOR JOINING US. For the archives, join our Patreon. Patreon.com/iftheshoesfit

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs in this episode the champs chop it up with the one and only, Benzino! Drink Champs alumni, Benzino is back to share more stories! Benzino talks about founding the iconic The Source Magazine, The Source Awards and much more! Lots of great stories that you don't want to miss! Make some noise for Benzino!!!

Season 5 has launched and this week we are doing it, we are breaking down and discussing the East Coast/ West Coast rap rivalry. We'll take you from the beginning, where a few dis-tracks from small artists sparked a rap battle, all the way through the Source Awards and straight to the untimely deaths of two prolific artists. If you haven't already done so, go back and listen to, or head over to YouTube and watch, our precursor interview with investigative journalist Ben Westhoff.   Find more about Ben Westhoff by CLICKING HERE! www.TheMixTapeShow.com is the place to check out our Playlists, Interviews and more! Why have you not joined us online? Seriously, our Twitter (X), Instagram, TikTok and Facebook are all the places you can interact. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1373722583092349   Instagram: The_Mix_Tape_Podcast https://instagram.com/the_mix_tape_podcast?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=   Twitter: The_Mix_Tape_Pod   TikTok- Mixtapepod  https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRSG8CVm/   Call us at 513-437-2377 or He Rad 77   Check out our Sponsors www.Bustedtees.com and at checkout enter the code JASON25945 to receive a pretty sweet discount!   Don't forget to drop us a review. It helps a ton!     You can help the show by donating to our Buy Me a Coffee: The Mix Tape is Weekly Pop Culture Podcast (buymeacoffee.com)   "Pop Culture News" "Pop culture trivia" "Pop Culture Moments" "Music" "80s Music artists" "90s Music" "90s Music artists" 2000s Music" "80s Rock" "80s Rap" "90s Rock" "90s Rap" "90s Techno" "2000s Rap" "Industrial" "Rock" "90s Music hits" "80s Music hits" "One hit wonders" "Movie reviews" "Weird movies" "recasting movies" “Celebrity Interviews” “Pop Culture” “Alternative” “Alt Rock” “Music facts” “Music History” “Rock History” Gansta Rap, East Coast, West Coast, Tupac, Notorious BIG, Dre, Suge Knight, Puff Daddy, Snoop Dog, 90's Rap, Ben Westhoff, Original Ganstas, Death Row Records, Bad Boy Records, Junior Mafia, Source Awards, Keefee D, Tim Dog   Gansta Rap, East Coast, West Coast, Tupac, Notorious BIG, Dre, Suge Knight, Puff Daddy, Snoop Dog, 90's Rap, Ben Westhoff, Original Ganstas, Death Row Records, Bad Boy Records, Junior Mafia, Source Awards, Keefee D, Tim Dog --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mixtapepod/message

Today we are sharing a sort of warm up for our Season 5 opener (which will be going out tomorrow). This is our interview with Investigative Journalist and best-selling author Ben Westhoff. Ben wrote one of the biggest-selling hip-hop books of all time! Original Gangstas: The Untold Story of Dr. Dre, Eazy-E, Ice Cube, Tupac Shakur, and the Birth of West Coast Rap. Ben spent over 5 years researching, interviewing and reporting and his book is a definitive history of West Coast gangsta rap, revealing how a group of then-unknown rappers, such as Eazy-E, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, and Tupac Shakur, grappled with rivalries, crime, drugs, gangs, racism and bad record deals to create and define the sound of a generation. We have an in depth discussion with Ben regarding the infamous East Coast/ West Coast rivalry and get his opinion on what really happened. Stay Tuned as tomorrow we will be releasing the official season opener with our deep dive into the East Coast/ West Coast rap feud. Find more about Ben Westhoff by CLICKING HERE! www.TheMixTapeShow.com is the place to check out our Playlists, Interviews and more! Why have you not joined us online? Seriously, our Twitter (X), Instagram, TikTok and Facebook are all the places you can interact. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1373722583092349   Instagram: The_Mix_Tape_Podcast https://instagram.com/the_mix_tape_podcast?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=   Twitter: The_Mix_Tape_Pod   TikTok- Mixtapepod  https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRSG8CVm/   Call us at 513-437-2377 or He Rad 77   Check out our Sponsors www.Bustedtees.com and at checkout enter the code JASON25945 to receive a pretty sweet discount!   Don't forget to drop us a review. It helps a ton!     You can help the show by donating to our Buy Me a Coffee: The Mix Tape is Weekly Pop Culture Podcast (buymeacoffee.com)   "Pop Culture News" "Pop culture trivia" "Pop Culture Moments" "Music" "80s Music artists" "90s Music" "90s Music artists" 2000s Music" "80s Rock" "80s Rap" "90s Rock" "90s Rap" "90s Techno" "2000s Rap" "Industrial" "Rock" "90s Music hits" "80s Music hits" "One hit wonders" "Movie reviews" "Weird movies" "recasting movies" “Celebrity Interviews” “Pop Culture” “Alternative” “Alt Rock” “Music facts” “Music History” “Rock History” Gansta Rap, East Coast, West Coast, Tupac, Notorious BIG, Dre, Suge Knight, Puff Daddy, Snoop Dog, 90's Rap, Ben Westhoff, Original Ganstas, Death Row Records, Bad Boy Records, Junior Mafia, Source Awards, Keefee D, Tim Dog --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mixtapepod/message

We have Misster Ray {from Love and Hip Hop Hollywood} joining us for the entire hour. Here are today topics: Lyrica Anderson is seeking $1M in music royalties earned during her marriage to A1 & wedding ring Beyonce's Renaissance movie earned $20M opening weekend Lenny Kravitz says he has never been invited to The BET Awards and The Source Awards due to his genre of music Shannen Doherty reveals cancer has spread to her bones after spreading to her brain. Bethenny Frankel says she has thousands of text messages from Andy Cohen talking about Nene Leakes. Alexis Bellino is dating Shannon Beador's exboyfriend. I hope you enjoy today's episode! Follow us on social media: Misster Ray @missterray804 Mr Marcus White @MrMarcusWhite JayTee @hey.jaytee

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to undefeated Florida State being snubbed by the College Football Playoff committee (13:31), before discussing criticism of Beyoncé's concert film screening in Israeli theaters (37:45), and Lenny Kravitz's comments on feeling shunned by Black media (55:25). Plus, a legendary drummer opens up about playing uncredited on Beatles records (1:15:26), and an Ohio woman is charged with a felony following a miscarriage (1:26:55). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Sole Source contract award is when the government awards a contract without competition. The standard procedure in GovCon is to use competition to compete requirements, therefore awarding a sole source contract is a “non-standard” procedure.   There are a variety of factors that impact the decision to use a sole source strategy to acquire goods and services. To effectively use this sole source authority, it's critical for both government and industry to understand when a sole source contract would/should/could be the best option to meet the government's mission.Since this is a “non-standard” procedure, the government team has to justify why awarding a contract without competition makes sense in a specific acquisition. In this episode, we outline the basic regulations around how that justification is made. We also describe how and why the government team, and the contracting officer in particular, can determine a “reasonable basis” for a sole source award.*The first 400 episodes are still free*Episodes 401 and beyond are inside Skyway Central©.Click here to access your Podcast 2.0 license for $20/mo and start listening today!Need to justify this to your boss?Click here to view Skyway's Contracting Officer Podcast 2.0 License Overview

On this episode of Collect Call With Suge Knight we get straight to business! Listen as Suge tells us about people who knew Pac would get shot in Las Vegas that fateful night & also exclusive stories about Puff/P Diddy! Certainly an episode you don't wanna miss. 1:44 Feedback from Deion Sanders came in about Suge's comments on Nick Cannon's Daily Cannon radio show 5:30 the arrest of Keefe D 7:43 Suge addresses Snoop not being there when Pac got shot 9:03 Suge addresses a Warren G interview where he reveals Snoop had a special security radio at his house the night that Pac was shot 11:02 Suge addresses an interview where Daz says that Snoop did not want them to go to Vegas and also an interview where Bad Azz says Daz told him not to go to Vegas for the fight the night Pac was shot 14:09 Suge talks about Snoop doing a song with someone that allegedly was in the car with Keefe D when Pac got shot 16:13 Suge addresses the night that Pac was killed and the effects of the longstanding narrative that Suge had something to do with it 18:55 Suge exposes Steve Harvey for staging a “truce” in the “East Coast/West Coast” rivalry where Snoop and Puff appeared together on a February 1997 episode of “The Steve Harvey Show.” 20:40 Suge meets with Pac and he talks about what happened to him when he got shot in the lobby of Quad Studios in New York in November 1994 21:40 Suge addresses his infamous words on stage at The Source Awards on the night of August 3, 1995 23:31 Suge talks about Diddy beating Cassie and another woman 25:33 Suge talks about Puff being homosexual NEW EPISODES OF COLLECT CALL WITH SUGE KNIGHT ARE RELEASED WEEKLY Make sure you comment, like and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Visit the @BreakbeatMedia YouTube page for video versions of our shows, https://www.youtube.com/@breakbeatmedia Executive Producers: Dave Mays (@therealdavemays) & Brett Jeffries (@igobybrettj) Executive Producer: Toi-Lin Kelly Editor & Producer: Trae Quaintance for Black Wolf Agency Producer: Christopher Samuel (@Christylezz) Production Manager: Norvin Leeper Audio: Cornell Sanner Sound effects: Envato Elements IG: @BreakbeatMedia @OfficialSugeKnight

In the season 2 finale, Detavio welcomes Tip ‘T.I.' Harris to discuss hustling at a very young age, how he started rapping, rehearsing for the Source Awards as his first rapping gig, and his role of Rashad in "ATL". Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of People's Party, filmed live from Miami, Talib Kweli sits down with Lil' Cease of Junior M.A.F.I.A. fame to discuss Biggie, coastal beefs, Lil' Kim, and more.

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Talk about '90s rap, and most music fans will throw around the word “gangsta” and talk about the East Coast–West Coast feud that tragically brought down Biggie and Tupac. But one rap group, OutKast, quite literally rose above the fray: At the 1995 Source Awards, while East and West were bickering with each other, OutKast's André Benjamin took the mic and told the rap faithful that hip-hop's future was in the South. For the next quarter century, he was proved indisputably correct. OutKast brought about this sea change by conceiving of hip-hop as everything music: funk, soul, pop, club, even country and indie all found their way into André and Big Boi's music. By the time of their final studio album, they had pulled away almost fully from pure rap—and were rewarded with their biggest hits ever, a No. 1 smash each for Big Boi and André. Including that immortal jam that taught you, the fellas and the ladies—including all Beyoncés and Lucy Lius—what's cooler than being cool. Podcast production by Benjamin Frisch and Kevin Bendis. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

August 11, 2023 is the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. What started out mostly as a spoken word artform has become a worldwide juggernaut. Thanks to the moguls who pushed the genre forward, hip-hop went from 0 to 100.In this episode, we rank the 50 greatest moguls in hip-hop's history. We reached out to industry experts — from artists to execs to media personalities — to help us compile the list. Friend of the pod, Zack O'Malley Greenburg, joins me to count them down from No. 50 to No. 10:39 How do we define “mogul”7:06 Honorable mentions09:10 The “Don't overlook their influence” group (ranks 50-41)16:19 The “Playing chess not checkers” group (ranks 40-31)23:38 The “Our impact runs deep” group (ranks 30-21)33:47 No. 2035:37 No. 1937:56 No. 1841:32 No. 1744:27 No. 1647:21 No. 1551:22 No. 14 55:55 No. 1359:09 No. 121:00:46 No. 111:02:16 No. 101:04:39 No. 91:06:44 No. 81:10:20 No. 71:14:06 No. 61:15:37 No. 51:17:11 No. 41:20:53 No. 31:29:06 No. 21:30:34 No. 11:33:22 Who got snubbed?1:35:42 What trends stick out from the list?1:41:21 Who would you pick to run your empire?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: ownership. Was just such an important thing for Nipsey. Such an important thing for Berner. And, you know, interviewing the two of them, I would say, their mindset around ownership was the closest I've ever seen to Jay Z.[00:00:13] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:39] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is a celebration to hip hop's 50th anniversary. This is a countdown on the 50 greatest moguls ever in hip hop. I'm joined by Zack O'Malley Greenburg, friend of the pod, and we both reached out to. A bunch of label heads, executives, people in hip hop that would know best. And we put it together in an aggregate list.And we're here to break down that list today. We talk about what does it mean to be a mogul? What are some of the considerations we made when we were looking into this list ourselves, how the results looked, what surprised us? What were the snubs? What were the misses? And what can we learn from this overall?And if Zack and I were putting together our dream teams, what would that look like? This is a lot of fun. Really happy with how it turned out. So let's dive in.[00:01:25] Dan Runcie: All right, hip hop's 50th anniversary is right around the corner and we decided to celebrate it in the only way that we know best countdown hip hop's greatest moguls and I'm joined by Zack O'malley Greenburg, who reached out to me about this. I was really excited about it and we spent some time over the past couple of weeks, reaching out to people we know, making sure that we have the best insights looking through and making sure that we had all of the. Breakdowns to share. So Zack, I'm ready for this. How are you feeling?[00:01:55] Zack Greenburg: I am stoked. Yeah, I mean, you know, 50th anniversary of hip hop. We reached out to 50 different judges. amongst, you know, the sort of, the most respected folks from, you know, label heads to artists to entrepreneurs, you know, I think we've got half of them, roughly half of them replied since in their votes, we're going to keep their individual votes anonymous, but, you know, Dan could tell you about some of the judges.Yeah, and it was just really fun to kind of mix it up, you know, I think the thing about this list, a lot of these characters are just kind of an apples to oranges comparison as you'll see once we dive into it, but that's the beauty of it, right? I mean, how do you, you know, compare like a pioneering executive to like a modern day artist mogul? And we really kind of left it in the hands of the judges. And we just said, basically the only guidance was, this is a business focused list, but you know, you can rank artists, executives, people who are both. It just, whatever your definition of mogul is, that's how, you know, that's how you should rank them. And people submitted lists and obviously the higher they rank somebody, the more points we gave them and, you know, the lower they got, but, you know, so there's some people on there who are like accumulators. They ended up on everybody's list, but not so high, but, you know, as a result, they ended up on the top 50.And then there are some who were just like, not ranked at all by most people, but had a couple of really high ranks so that they made the list. So I think it's a pretty cool mix.[00:03:10] Dan Runcie: Right? It's kind of like how we look at artists. There's some artists that have just been consistent, steady through and through each year. You'll always get some reliable output from them, but then there are other artists too. They were the best for a certain amount of time. Maybe they cooled off for a bit.Maybe they came back and that's kind of the way music is too. One of the things that. I was asked whenever I was reaching out to people about this was the same thing that you posed earlier. People wanted to know, how are we defining mogul and we left it up to their interpretation. It is a term that means different things to different people, but maybe for the sake of this conversation, let's kick it off here.Zack, how do you define mogul? And how did you define it when creating your list?[00:03:51] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, to me a hip hop mogul, more general is just, you know, somebody who not only is a business person, but has some degree of ownership, in whatever it is that they're doing. that's not the only definition of it for me, but like, you know, when I was putting together my rankings, I thought, you know, who are the owners?the same time, you know, people who are executives who are in a decision making place. you know, that counts for something. And I think also, you know, if you're an artist, and you simply have some control over your own work, you maintain your copyrights, whatever, like that counts as being a mogul. So, you know, specifically when it comes to hip hop, you know, I'd say people who are, you know, definitely getting in charge of your own work, but also creating new lines of business, you know, influencing the culture. but you know, a way that they've got some skin in the game from a business perspective, you know, that, kind of thing.That's kind of how I looked at it. but you could see from the votes that, you know, everybody had a slightly different definition too.[00:04:47] Dan Runcie: Yeah, there was definitely a lot of correlation with the artists who tend to be the ones that are the wealthiest. They end up at the highest rankings in on some of those lists, too, but it wasn't exactly correlated because there's a difference. And these are some of the things I kept in mind, too, with the mogul definition, thinking specifically aboutinfluence and impact, were you having, or did you create opportunities for others around you? Were you able to be a bit of a kingmaker or queenmaker in your respective right? Was there a impact in terms of other generations that either looked and modeled how they're doing what they're doing and looking at you as some form of inspiration with that?So there's the indirect impact and influence, but also the, Indirect piece of it too. So there's the money piece as well, but then what do you do with that money? And then that's how I had went about it. And similarly, everyone had their own unique spin to it.[00:05:42] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, and I think the definition changed over time, of what a mogul really is, but when I was putting my rankings together, I think the idea of starting something new, you know, that's also paramount, amongst all the criteria as well.[00:05:55] Dan Runcie: Right? So, of course, Zack and I had our list, but we reached out to a number of people and several other label heads, executives, and people that are in the game.So thank you all to your contributions. We couldn't have done this without you. And if anything, it helped add a variety beyond just you and I, getting and putting our list out there. It added a more full scope and like anything. Oh, this is how you look at it. Interesting and being able to pull unique insights there.[00:06:21] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. you know, one thing I think we probably ought to point out, on the list, you know, the list is, heavily male. but it's about only 20% women on the list. you know, we did everything we could obviously to make it more equitable, but, you know, the votes are the votes.And, you know, I think there is a bit of a reflection of sort of the state of affairs over the past half century, you know, unfortunately, like many parts of music business, hip hop has been, you know, heavily overindexing for males. So, you know, here's hoping that when 50 years to do a hundred years of hip hop, you know, we'll have even things out a bit or completely, let's say maybe even, you know, made up for lost time, but I think some of the spots on the list, you know, the rankings do kind of reflect an industry reality that we've seen, unfortunately for 50 years.[00:07:06] Dan Runcie: Right? And hopefully this gets better. We do feel and you'll see when we talk about some of the people here, glad about some of the names that got mentioned. Of course, there's always room to be able to have more and hopefully for hip hop's 100th anniversary. If when and people are breaking that down, there's hopefully even more representation there.So, with that, I think it's probably good for us to get started right before the list, but talk about some of the honorable mentions. So, there were people that didn't quite make the cut of 50, but we still wanted to highlight them and the work that they. Did here. So a few of those names here to give a shout out to.So we have Cindy Campbell, Jermaine Dupree, Audrey Harrell, Jay Cole, Damon John. What comes or what do you think about when you hear those names?[00:07:55] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, you know, I mean, Cindy Campbell, I think in many ways you could look at her as the first promoter in hip hop history, right? I mean, you know, we're talking about 50 years of hip hop. That's 50 years from that first party that. She and DJ Kool Herc through, you know, in the rec room on Cedric Avenue.And, I think the idea was that they were going to raise a little bit of cash so she could go get herself a new back to school wardrobe. Now, if that's not, you know, entrepreneurship and hip hop, you know, from the very beginning, I don't know what it is. And so I think Cindy deserves a ton of credit, for being there at the very beginning, you know, but I think on the honorable mentions to a lot of the folks that are on here, you know, or maybe like a little bit, you know, not exactly falling on the same radar, you know, for the list. So like, you know, Damon John, obviously he did with, you know, creating FUBU and, you know, everything he's done as an entrepreneur, it's incredible, but it, I think it's sort of like more of a national brand that is, you know, apart from hip hop and so is his personality, right? Like you see him on shark tank or, you know, whatever, like he sort of moved past, I wouldn't necessarily categorize him, as just hip hop, although he's had a tremendous impact on hip hop.So I think probably that's why, he wasn't on more lists. It's not to sort of ding him his impact, which is considerable.[00:09:10] Dan Runcie: Right, and I do think that of course, music is one element of hip hop. You do have fashion, you do have others. So music definitely got weighted heavily in this list, but Dave and John and his influence in fashion, and there's other people in fashion and we'll get into them in this list too, but we can't overlook everything he did there and some of the more unique and clever marketing tactics that came from food booth that other people did who will mention in this list as well. 1 person that I do want to highlight here from that list 2 people. So, Jermaine Dupri want to give him a shout out as well. Just everything he was able to do with.So, so Def records. He was part of that movement in the 90s, where you saw LaFace and then all these other groups in the South be able to come up, do their own. There was a so so deaf sound, a so so Def vibe and his ability to do it both in rap, but also have a bit of the soul there. Some of the epic production that he's been involved with, even outside of hip hop, thinking about albums like Mariah Carey's Emancipation of Mimi and others, even though he didn't always do everything in hip hop. I think that some of his influence can't go overstated there. And then the second person who's similar in that regard, I would say is Andre Harrell. We talked about him in past episodes, especially the bad boy one, but everything that he did from Uptown Records and then moving on to Motown Records and gave in many ways helped give Puff the blueprint for what he was able to do years later.[00:10:37] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think Andre had a lot of successes, also had a lot of failures, not necessarily, you know, through his own doing, the time, but definitely somebody who deserves, you know, a hat tip at the very least. And, you know, I'm sure Puff would agree about that too.[00:10:52] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Agreed. All right. We ready ready to get into it.[00:10:57] Zack Greenburg: Let's do it.[00:10:58] Dan Runcie: All right. So in the initial group here, which we're calling the don't overlook their influence group. This is people who are ranked 50 through 41. so in order we have Ethiopia have to Marion at 50. She was the former CEO of Motown. We have Top Dog, co founder and CEO of Top Dog Entertainment. We have Mona Scott Young from her work at Violators and more recently Love Hip Hop. And what she also has done with Hip Hop Homicides and some other multimedia projects. We have T.I. with everything he's done with Grand Hustle and Multimedia. We have Eazy E with Priority Records. Many ways pioneering so much of the stuff we saw.We have Todd Moskowitz, L. A. Reed, Craig Kalman, former CEO from Atlantic. We have Sylvia Roan and then tied for 40. We have Desiree Perez and Steve Stout. What are your thoughts on that group list?[00:11:55] Zack Greenburg: Oh, man, I don't know. Maybe we should just pick out a few here and there that we thought were particularly interesting. I mean, you know, I think Ethiopia is a good example of somebody who would be higher up if she were identified, you know, solely as a, you know, as a hip hop mogul, but she's had kind of like a pretty wide reach, you know, especially in R and B, and pop. I mean, some of the stuff she's done with Erykah Badu, NeYo, Stevie Wonder, you know, like over the years, you know, wouldn't be classified as hip hop, but it's worth it nonetheless. just think that, you know, being kind of like in between, in between genres, you know, resulted in her being down a little bit further on the list.But, you know, somebody who had a tremendous impact. you know, I would also, I would highlight TI here, you know, the self proclaimed King of the South, but, you know, in terms of, I remember the years when, you know, we were putting together the Forbes list and, you know, kind of looking at, you know, kind of regionally who is most important to me.Yeah, he was sort of like. The Jay Z of the South. And he was really, especially when he was having that moment, you know, getting a lot of songs on, you know, national radio and, kind of being in the public eye, I mean, had a tremendous business focus, you know, he was always interested in sort of like, what's the next thing that I can create?and you know, that kind of entrepreneurial energy, you know, I think, especially within the context of the South, like taking the blueprint, from guys like Jay Z, you know, I think he certainly deserves a mention. I kind of thought he'd end up higher here, but I guess he's been, not as, especially in the music front lately.and then I would definitely highlight, Desiree, you know, she's somebody who's been behind the scenes for a really long time, with Jay Z and rock nation, but like. she runs rock nation. And although Jay Z obviously has the final say in things, you know, a lot of things that you see, come out of that camp are, you know, her doing and have her fingerprints all over them.And I know some of y'all might have seen the Book of Hove exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum or the Brooklyn Public Library that was a Desiree Perez production and, you know, she said that it was like her emptying her 80, 000 square foot storage unit into the library, but, you know, but to have, you know, that kind of, impact at a place like Roc Nation and to help, you know, Jay Z do what he's done, you know, I think those are all worthy, of notation and, you know, I think she deserves her spot there for sure.[00:14:09] Dan Runcie: Yeah, Desiree is someone that has been working with Jay Z for a while now, and I feel like she deserved a shout out on Jay's verse in Pound Cake, the Drake song. You know where he's like, Dave made millions, Lyor made millions. I feel like Desiree should have gotten a shout out there too, but yeah.I'm glad that she got mentioned here. Two other names I'll run through quickly. Steve Stout, someone who I thought would have ended up higher, and I know that, you know, it was interesting to see how the results played out, but I do think that one of the best marketers that we've seen come through hip hop.He was ahead of the curve in a number of ways, dating back to the 90s with seeing the men in black sunglasses and everything that he's done there from his time working with Nas, everything that they've done, whether it was the firm or, him being a record executive himself and then showing as well, how he's able to do it in advertising and bringing a lot of these companies and brands that didn't necessarily align or think about being related with, you know, hip hop culture and those elements to be able to do it.You look at a company like State Farm and how we now look at what that company has done. And a lot of that is through his work and obviously with what he's done at United Masters. So shout out there and I also do want to give a shout out to Mona Scott Young mentioned her earlier, but she was a right hand to someone who will mention on the list as well coming up soon with everything she did in Violator, this is back when, you know, Q Tip and Busta Rhymes and that whole crew were doing their thing. And then later, I know people have a lot of polarizing opinions about love and hip hop, but if you look at the career opportunities that were created for people that have came through, and the longevity that she's granted, a lot of people that the record industry forgot about that she was able to continue to give opportunities for think about the trick daddies, Trina's and folks like that. I know people hate to see them arguing on camera, but would we have Cardi B where she is today? If it weren't for the platform of love and hip hop, and she's continued to do things with other vocals on the list that we'll get into. So I do want to give a shout out to her[00:16:08] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, definitely a worthy shout out. And we could probably go on and on about even just like the tent in this bracket here, but I suppose we ought to, we ought to move on to the next room before, before we run[00:16:19] Dan Runcie: indeed. Yep. So the next group is playing chest, not checkers. So at 39, we have Dave Mays, founder of the source 38. We have Irv Gotti, founder of Murder, Inc. 37, Cardi B 36, Lil Wayne 35, Nipsey Hussle, 34. Steve Rifkin, from Loud Records 33, Missy Elliot. 32 Birder from Cookies, 31 Kevin Lyles and 30 Chris Lighty.[00:16:47] Zack Greenburg: Oh man, this is a pretty stacked bracket, I must say. I think that, you know, there are a couple of names that stick out to me here. I'm going to go with Nipsey and Berner, because in a funny way, I think, they have like a sort of a similar, a sort of similar strategy, which is like, you have a very clear idea of what it is that you're going to do.You own it, and then you, you know, you continue to own it like ownership. Was just such an important thing for Nipsey. Such an important thing for Berner. And, you know, interviewing the two of them, I would say, their mindset around ownership was the closest I've ever seen to Jay Z. and they really understood from the beginning that they had to own all their music.Own all of their branding own, you know, the companies that create on the side and then they can monetize it later. And, you know, with Nipsey rest in peace. I mean, he was just on the cusp of, of kind of like becoming a mainstream superstar, you know, when, his life ended all too soon. So, I think what Berner is doing with cookies is really fascinating like Berner is, you know, you want to talk, lists. I mean, he's in the top five, probably the top four or three at this point, in terms of net worth for actual, hip hop artists. And that's because of the success of cookies and, you know, there's been, a lot of ups and downs in the cannabis business lately, but like the amount of ownership that he has, you know, I think it amounts to about one third still of cookies, which is, you know, a billion dollar brand. When we gets legalized, you know, like he's going to see the fruits of his labor and, that focus on ownership I think is really going to pay off on the longterm.So I would highlight those two guys, in this tier as the ones that, I think were the most impressive to me. That's not to shade anybody else, but,[00:18:25] Dan Runcie: Yeah, those two guys are also two of the few people who I see people still wearing their merchandise on a regular basis. Granted, I live in San Francisco. There's a cookie store here. So, I mean, I know there is a local connection for sure, but same with Nipsey Hussle. I mean, sadly, it's now been over 4 years since he passed away, and you still see Crenshaw shirts.He understood, Nipsey especially, understood exactly where everything's going. And it's just so sad that, you know, it was gone so soon. Two names, I'm going to shout out here. I'm going to shout. I'm going to shout out Cardi B and I want to shout out Chris Lighty. So Cardi B talked about her a little with the Mona Scott young piece, but she's entered and ran her rap career more uniquely than other artists that we've seen at her level have. And I think that speaks a lot to just where the game is now. It's been over six years since Bodak Yellow came out. And it's been over five years now since her debut album. This is someone who hasn't put out a studio album in over five years.And hasn't gone on tour in a traditional way, but it's still doing her thing. And I think this is one of the things that's unique. She finds interesting ways to monetize herself and to put herself on. She's like, Hey, I can do these private shows and they're going to pay me, you know, 1. 5 million or 3 million just to do a half an hour set.I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to be there at Super Bowl weekend. I may not be performing at the Super Bowl, but I'm going to go do these private shows for Bob craft or the fanatics event or all these things and collect the checks. it's very interesting to see younger artists to do that Lionel Richie playbook, but she is like, Hey, I don't necessarily have to do that. And even though people always do try to, you know, loop her into the Nicki Minaj versus Cardi B beef, she still has lended her hand and extended it to other young artists, especially women in the game, whether it's Ice Spice and others, whether she's doing it through her talents and others. So she's someone that I hope as she continues on, you know, into her thirties and into her forties can continue to rise up this list.And then Chris Lighty talked about a little bit with Mona Sky Young, co founder of Violator and everything they're able to do there. Sad that he was taken away so soon, but if you have not heard this yet and if you haven't listened to the podcast, I highly recommend the Mogul podcast series that was done several years ago on it.It was done by Reggie Yose, who is Combat Jack, who has since passed away as well, but I highly recommend that if you want a full breakdown on everything Chris Leite did. Violator and after that was truly one of the early ones looking at product partnerships and a lot of the things that we see now that are common in hip hop.[00:21:07] Zack Greenburg: And, you know, if we didn't have Chris Lighty, I don't think we would have had 50 Cent. I mean, at least not to the extent that we have him. you know, I mean, I remember writing my first story about 50 and like for Forbes, maybe 2008 and sitting down with Chris and just kind of like hearing him lay out the plan.And again, it's the emphasis on ownership, right? you know, Chris Leidy, I think was the one who really pushed, 50 to take the equity in vitamin water and his parent company, rather than just do an endorsement. And, you know, obviously that became a huge, deal and really like a model for so much, not only of hip hop, but like other parts of the entertainment industry, you know, I think Chris definitely deserves a spot, maybe even should be a little higher. and you know, probably also, there's, you know, again, all these folks deserve a shout out, but Kevin Lyles, I think is, got one of the most inspirational stories. you know, it's another person, I think we've both interviewed a bunch of times, but, you know, just his journey from intern to president of Def Jam and I think seven years. And he just did it by working harder than everybody else like he wasn't an artist that got put there because he had some hit, it wasn't some kind of like nepotism deal, you know, he just outworked everybody and, you know, he had the talent and, you know, the horsepower to just like get it done. And to make that journey within seven years. So I think it's, for people who are listening and, you know, want to do something like that with their own career, you know, study Kevin Miles because he was able to make it, without being, you know, some kind of like preternatural, singing talent or something like that he just did it on smarts and work ethic.[00:22:39] Dan Runcie: And one of the few people that co founded a record label and sold it a decade later for hundreds of millions of dollars, which is what he did 300 as well. Right? So of course, not 300 now underwater, but everything he did with Lyor and Todd, there, is impressive. There's not that many black founders in general. In tech, any sector that have built and exited companies for several hundred, a million dollars, the way that he was able to be a part of that. So, hats offhim.[00:23:09] Zack Greenburg: yeah, I think it takes a special kind of guts to be able to, you know, I mean, he was a well paid executive with a cushy music job, you know, to leave that world, start your own thing. I mean, I know they had, you know, big backers and everything, but like to take a risk once you've already experienced that level of success and to go out and start something, you know, as opposed to starting something from scratch when you have nothing anyway.I mean, it, takes a lot of gumption to do that. So, you know, again, yes, a pretty cool second act for Kevin miles.[00:23:38] Dan Runcie: Indeed, the next group here, our impact runs deep. It is Nicki Will Smith at 28, Swiss beats 27, LL Cool J, 26, Coach K and P, 25, Julie Greenwald, 24. The E40 23, Pharrell 22, and Rick Ross, 21.[00:24:01] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I think, that's a pretty strong, deck there. And I think also, you know, here, you find some people who, you could argue should be higher or lower based on, you know, how much of their career was done in the hip hop music world, right? Like Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Will Smith.Obviously those are huge crossover acts. but I think they all got a lot of points from some of the voters because, you know, that is in one way, the measure of a mogul, like you're diversifying your portfolio and whether that's by owning different things or, you know, by getting into, different types of performance, you know, on the silver screen, I think that's a viable path too.but just from like a purely musical entrepreneurial perspective, I would highlight, Swiss Beats and Pharrell, who I think, you know, the two of them are more influential than anybody in terms of like, I'd say Swizz in terms of art and Pharrell in terms of fashion. and you know, some of the things they've done around those two areas and, you know, Pharrell certainly, now with LVMH, but also before with Ice Cream, Billionaire Boys Club, you know, he was very active in starting his own things on the fashion side.And, you know, kind of inspiring artists to do that. you know, would we have had a Yeezy if we hadn't had Pharrell, you know, doing what he was doing and, you know, and even doing what he did with Adidas? you know, I don't know about that. And, Swiss beads certainly, you know, not only from the art side of things, but you know, it's a really impressive art collection.I did a story on him a few years ago and, you know, he's got like, Jeff Kuhn sculptures and Basquiat's and Warhol's and his, you know, like in his foyer. I mean, it's, pretty impressive stuff. but the way that he moves behind the scenes, as sort of like a corporate brand whisperer, at places, you know, like Bacardi, Lotus, you know, this goes on, you know, I think he, he's sort of like more quietlyinfluential than, some folks realize. And, you know, certainly has been earning, on par with, you know, with all the, you know, most of the names, if not higher than most of the names we've mentioned so far. and you know, what he's done on the, both of them, what they've done on the production side, also hard to top.So that must count for something as well. I kind of went more than one shout out there, didn't I? So[00:26:06] Dan Runcie: Yeah. No, that was good. That was good.I'm glad you mentioned the two of them though, because if you didn't, I probably would've called the other one out. The thing about Swiss as well, everything that he's done with versus specifically also embodies this idea and definition of a mogul because he was able to be.A kingmaker in the sense of creating opportunities for others. He did that through the equity that he was able to give all of those early participants in versus in trailer itself. And then additionally, with the careers that we're able to have a boost because of. everything that happened, with the matchups from versus specifically, you look at someone like Ashanti, who is now doing tours and pop it up every now and then she wasn't doing that before her versus and her battle versus Keisha Cole was one of the not, if not the most watched one that we've had.You look at Jadakiss and everything that he's been able to do since his epic showdown against, with Lox versus Dipset with that versus you look at Jeezy versus Gucci Mane. I know that versus definitely had its peak popularity during the pandemic, but that kind of stuff that he was able to do with Timbaland, I think also speaks so much to everything that he's been able to do there.And another person I want to mention to that was in this group as well that I think is similar is LL Cool J because I think similar to the way that. Swiss beets is Ella is also with someone that's been involved with multimedia with everything from the jump. He was the 1st artist to truly breakthrough from Def Jam and did it as a teenager.So, of course, he gets plenty of shout out for that, but he's also always been trying to find ways to look out for that next generation of artists. And he's been doing some of that more recently with rock the bells, and that's its own. Company and entity now where they have a festival coming up as well to celebrate things that are happening with hip hops anniversary.So it's been cool to see him do things as well. And I'll give a very brief shout out here to, coach K and P because they, similar to how I mentioned, Kevin Liles were able to build and grow a company and then sell it for, I believe, forget the exact sale price for, quality control. But they were able to do that thanks in part to a lot of the work that Ethiopia had done, helping to give quality control, the platform that it did, and especially in an era where I think it's harder for a record label to have a true brand, they were able to help give it a boost.[00:28:36] Zack Greenburg: That's true. And on that note of labels, I think Julie Greenwald, there's a mention, you know, she and Craig Kalman, who's mentioned, in an earlier grouping, you know, run Atlantic together. And there's a lot of, of music that we wouldn't have seen if it had been for the two of them, you know, running the show over there.So, shout out to Julie. I mean, the only one actually we haven't discussed here with E40 and Rick Ross. And I don't know, you know, probably get moving, but, do you think Rick Ross deserves to be number 21 on this entire list? Like ahead of Pharrell, ahead of, you know, some of the other names on here. I was surprised that he was ranked this high.[00:29:09] Dan Runcie: I love the spicy questions. Cause this is what people wanted to hear the podcast about, right? They wanted to hear one of us, you know, poke the bear a little bit.If Rick Ross was able to nail that dive in the pool, do you think you would have ranked him higher?[00:29:21] Zack Greenburg: Ha ha ha ha ha ha. No, no, I wouldn't. I mean, I still know. I mean, you know, like I get it, you know, he's called the boss that he must be a mogul, You know, and, some of the things he's done in terms of, you know, Bel Air and Maybach music and all that. Sure. But like, you know, when you put them up against like some of the other ones, did he really do something new or was he more just like following a, blueprint that had worked for others before and, you know, executing it to a degree success, but like, again, not, you know, not to the level of, let's say Pharrell.I think maybe I just, I'm salty that he ended up ahead of Pharrell. I think Pharrell is just way more influential and Mowgli, but, I don't know. What do you think?[00:29:59] Dan Runcie: So, I've read 2 of Ross's books and I interviewed him once on Trapital. I think that, to your point, he did follow the blueprint that we saw from others. I think he is smart about the types of partnerships he does, but it does feel like a ditty light. Type of playbook that he's been able to do and build.And I do think a lot of it makes sense. He may not necessarily have the large media entities the way that he does. Although I do think he's overdue for some type of comedy show or some type of reality show just following him around because I think he's hilarious. And anytime that he gets that, it could just generate something unique.And I'm sure he's been hit up about it. I do think that he's done well for himself. Just thinking about. Now, how his career is growing, I think it's been what, 16, 17 years since hustling 1st came out. I think in this range, there is some flexibility there in terms of like, where people are in certain ways.I get why he may not necessarily be as high. I'm sure if you looked at the net worth or the earnings, that some of the people that are lower than him may actually be higher. I think 1 of the knocks potentially is although Maybach music was cool. I wrote about this in Trapit as well. I think there was a missed opportunity.And part of that comes from, huh, did Ross do all the things that he probably could have done from a leadership perspective to especially like, when Meek Mill and Wally were beefing and stuff. And I think Ross had a bit more of a laissez faire approach to things, which in some ways is kind of the opposite of King making as we're talking about this, right?Can we really bring folks together and make something larger than it is. I think it was a bit tough in general for people to try to do everything themselves, try to be the boss of this label, which is signed to a different label because Rick Ross was signed to a different label than MNG was himself. And I think anytime you have that type of dynamic, it's just splitting the leadership interests. So I hear you.[00:32:00] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. So then how much of a mogul are you, if your label is really, you know, so I guess everybody's labels on somebody else's label and have you distributed by something, but you know, it's like when they're like multiple labels kind of, you know, intertwined with your label, it kind of causes the question.are you really the boss? If you have several bosses that you're answering to, but you know, I think actually though. in Rick Ross's defense, what he's done with Wingstop, I mean, that is pretty unique and, I don't know that anybody else on this list has something comparable in that space.So, you know, maybe that's why, I think, you know, by virtue of that, you could put them pretty high up. And maybe that's what some of the judges were thinking, you know, but he also ended up on a lot of lists, you know, so some of the judges just kind of like, maybe we're getting to some of the judges sent rank lists, and they're like, you know, this person is the top and they should get the most points and other people were like, here are my people.And you can just rank them evenly. and I think Rick Ross ended up on a lot of those lists. So, you know. I think again, maybe like I was alluding to earlier, he's a bit of a compiler, nothing wrong with that, you know, you can get into the hall of fame by compiling 3000 hits, but, it's interesting to see how, how the opinions differ. That's the whole fun of it.[00:33:06] Dan Runcie: He runs his business is almost like how a small business owner would in a number of ways where he has a bunch of car washes and, you know, his is 1 of the family members does that he has his wing stops, right? He has that. And it is a bit of this, like, mogul dumbness from that perspective in terms of like, okay, I have my hands in these things and I've hired people to have, you know, different roles within that that doesn't necessarily have things in aggregate. It's a bit more of the strip mall mentality as opposed to the, you know, building a skyscraper that could then build other skyscrapers, but it's something worth mentioning, but I hope we keep that up with a few of the other rankings we have coming up as we dig into the top 20, here.So, yeah, let's start with 20. So, 20, Queen Latifah, I think that she and, Ice Cube, who we'll get into in a minute, were one of the first that noticed, hey, I may not be able to do this rap thing forever, what are areas that I can expand this multimedia empire and everything I'm building.She was able to do this with Living Single, the show that was Friends before Friends was, and even the way that she was able to show young black people that were having, you know, highly sought after roles, but they still had their interpersonal dynamics. It was cool. It was refreshing. It was aspirational, which I do think that a lot of the black sitcoms were in the 90s.And she was able to do that, continue finding ways to put other people on as well through the work that she did. She was also willing to take risks. Like I remember when she was in set it off, people had a bunch of questions about, Oh, you're going to play a lesbian in this heist movie. What is this going to do for your career?And she was willing to do that. And I think she is always, you know, be willing to take risks. So, you know, shout out to her and I'm glad that several people have mentioned her[00:34:56] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think she gets credit for, like you say, diversifying her portfolio. you know, into the acting world. it's worth noting, you know, she was barely ahead of Rick Ross. but you know, there is a big difference between 21 and 20. It's the top 20. So, again, I think, you know, she was a bit of a compiler, but there were a couple of people who ranked her in the top 10.and, you know, I think just like in terms of the breadth of her career, you know, the longevity, the diversity of the things that she's gotten into. you know, even if it's not as much ownership as somebody, even like a Rick Ross, it's just like, having your hands in a lot of pies and like that really counts for something as a mogul.So, I think it makes sense to see you there.[00:35:36] Dan Runcie: Agreed 19 is Eminem. So let's talk about it. How do we feel about Eminem in 19?[00:35:43] Zack Greenburg: You know, I think it's a weird one, honestly. you know, there's no doubting, his lyrical prowess and where, you know, where he kind of stacks up as part of like the pantheon of lyricists, like fine. But is he really a mogul? I mean, he's somebody who has been, you know, very reclusive at times. Who has, you know, kind of gotten in his own way at other times. I mean, I could see ranking him up here though, just by virtue of ownership of the music and sort of like the quality and quantity of his catalog. you know, what he did with D12, you know, he did have shady records and, you know, and all that.So again, you know, there, there is kind of a layer cake of a label situation, like some of the folks who mentioned earlier across, but, you know, that was at least important to him to set up, you know, as his continued ownership of, You know, his work and, you know, certainly when it comes to like raw commercial prowess, you know, Eminem, is one of the best selling hip hop artists of all time.If not the best, depending on how you look at it. And just, you know, simply by virtue of the amount of revenue he generated, you know, throughout the late 90s and early aughts at the peak of the sort of CD age there. you know, that deserves, some kind of something, even if he wasn't running around starting his own, you know, side businesses as much as some of these other folks[00:37:02] Dan Runcie: Best selling artist of the 2000s by a pretty strong amount, I believe, and has the most of any genre, right? And the most streamed song of the 2000s as well, at least on Spotify with Lose Yourself, and I'm pretty sure Till I Collapse and maybe a couple of others aren't too far. Behind as Will Page as Spotify's former chief economist said, anytime Eminem farts or burps or releases anything on a streaming service, it provides a huge bump to everything in this back catalog.So, I still laugh about that, but I do think that speaks to it there and. If, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was one of the first hip hop artists to have a Sirius XM channel himself.So that's something that's unique and obviously Sirius is still doing its thing. So, shout out to him there. A bit higher than I probably would have ranked him, but that's why it's interesting to get the group results here. Ah, this one's gonna be spicy. Number 18. Your boy, Suge Knight.[00:38:02] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, you know, I mean, I think this is one of the tougher ones on the entire list. You know, this is not like a list of, Ms. Congeniality or Mr. Congeniality, as you'll see, you know, some of the other names on here. Obviously, you know, Suge is in jail. he's been involved in the death of, you know, human beings that like that is, you know, not sort of like what you're after in a mogul here, but, enough people, you know, I guess felt that the business, if you just, you know, looking at it from a pure business perspective, was enough to put them up here. And, you know, there is no arguing that death row at its peak was one of the most influential record labels, you know, not just in hip hop, but of anything. I mean, any genre, when death row was at its hottest, I don't know any, kind of moment where any other, you know, you'd have to stack that up against peak Motown or, you know, Atlantic or something like that, but, you know, that was really like a, peak moment. So, you know, I think this is one of the things we run into on this list like if somebody exhibits, a level of, you know, sort of business ingenuity, you know, that counts for something and, you know, the other things that you do in your life and your career, you know, we'll detract from that, but, you know, what you did at your peak, I think will get you pretty far in a list like this when people kind of count, you know, we kind of count sort of like the ceiling as opposed to the average, in some cases. So, I don't know. What do you think?[00:39:27] Dan Runcie: These are the two most impressive business moves that Suge Knight has done. Number two is shaking down Vanilla Ice to get his points for everything that he did on the album that had Ice Ice Baby there. Because he was able to use that money to then start and co found Death Row with Dr. Dre. That's number two.Number one is at the 1995 Source Awards where he publicly makes his Call to attract Tupac to say, Hey, I know you're in jail, but we're riding with you. Tupac wasn't signed there at the time, but he knew that this was an opportunity. Tupac likely needed somewhere to call a home and he called his shot. He was able to make it happen.I know everyone talks about the diddy shot about, you know, being all in the video death row. And that, of course, is infamous in its own right. But I think the number one thing that should night did is that that said. those 2 things speak to what should night is, 1, it is that muscle and the prowess of being able to overpower a situation and then take advantage.And I think those were things that he was good at. That said, I don't think he was necessarily strong as a. Business leader, the company imploded in large part. And I don't think it imploded because of Dr. Dre, it imploded because of all of the things, all the shenanigans. And I think for what he was building, some of that just got a little too close to the sun, unfortunately. And, that's Chuck Knight[00:40:49] Zack Greenburg: And, I think that, you know, in some of the reporting I've done over the years, One of the things people say is that Shug and a lot of the guys around him, you know, it wasn't that they were necessarily like that. It's just they kind of had been watching too many bad gangster movies and the music business, didn't know what to do with somebody like Suge Knight.And so the more he kind of like played this role, the more he grew into it to where, to the point where he was actually living sort of a bad gangster movie. and sort of like created, turned himself into a monster. Yeah, so I think like the evolution. or the evolution, of somebody like Suge Knight is sort of fascinating in terms of like what you can, what sort of playing a role can do to you, over the course of time.[00:41:32] Dan Runcie: Agreed. And well said number 17 here is America's most wanted ice cube. I'll start here to kick things off. I think that Ice Cube, like Queen Latifah mentioned earlier, was one of the early ones who had said that he knew that living and doing everything off a raft wasn't gonna last forever. And I think a lot of it was because he experienced some of the brunt and ugliness of it.I mean, we've all seen the Straight Outta Compton movie. He goes into Jerry Heller's office. He starts smashing shit. He releases no Vaseline. There was definitely a no fucks given that carried through even after he was done with NWA, but he saw what this industry is like as well and then that's when he starts writing screenplays.And then that's how Friday because the thing becomes a thing. And then. His career just continues to take off after that he still dabbled in rap and did his thing, but he definitely became known early on for one of the people that took a risk with cube entertainment and everything that he was able to do there.And with any of the movies that he had, whether it was the movies with Mike Epps and plenty others, I do believe that most of these movies were pretty profitable. And he was able to. Do it work within the confines that he had and just continue to build everything he did from a career. We've seen him expand as well into everything that he's done with the big 3 specifically giving a home for basketball players that can still play, but maybe they can't make, you know, a 13 person NBA roster anymore.I do think that some of his more recent news highlights that are a bit more politically driven or him walking around with Tucker Carlson and probably take it away from some of the more prominent memories of Hugh Ice Cube is, but yeah, that's why I had had him or that's why he, I think deserves to be, you know, where he is, on the list.[00:43:27] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think it's interesting, you know, you see, Eminem, Suge Knight, Ice Cube, all together, you know, they're all, inextricably connected to Dr. Dre. one way or the other. Right. and you know, would there, would Dre have been Dre without the three of them? you know, at different phases of his career, you know, I don't know, I mean, I think certainly what, Ice Cube did as part of NWA, you know, I wouldn't say that, that NWA was like.like a business first organization. But like that wasn't the point of NWA and if it hadn't been for NWA, I don't think you would have been able to have business first organizations come out of hip hop in the way that you did. and certainly, you know, somebody like Dr. Dre, so. I think he gets extra points for that.and, you know, this is probably why, you know, he was again, I don't know, was he compiler? He was, you know, he had like a lot of kind of middling, a lot of lists, a couple of top 10 votes, you know? So, you know, I think again, everybody has their favorite and he's up there for a lot of folks.[00:44:27] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Number 16 is Drake. Should we poke the bear again?[00:44:33] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. Does Drake deserve to be at number 16 on this list?[00:44:37] Dan Runcie: This one surprised me, I was very surprised at the number of people that had him on the list, because you can make a case for the opposite, right? It's similar to the M and M thing, but almost to the extreme because M and M, yes, most commercially successful artists, XYZ. There's other artists that are less commercially successful at M and M that did more in that mogul definition but for Drake, it's even bigger of a Delta between these two, because here you have the most streamed artists of all time. So clearly commercially successful on its own, but people believe that OVO. Records or OVO sound itself actually could hurt an artist's career. And when you think about that, you think about some of the other multimedia things that he's done.I know he's been active as an investor and I know that people like Nicki Minaj and others have said, Oh, you know, Drake's a low key billionaire. He just doesn't want you to know it personally. Again, he may be, I mean, I'm not sure what he may not disclose, but it isn't always just about wealth. It's like, what opportunities were you able to create for each other?I do think it's good. That drink has been able to have different people that have been working alongside that. I think did get a bit of that drink stimulus package. And I think that's something that is quite debated, but I do think that. I feel like 21 Savage has definitely benefited from it. I mean, he was already commercially successful, but for him and Drake to do a joint album together was huge.I think it was the same way that it was huge for Future and the same way that the Migos going on tour with Drake in 2018 was huge for them and anything else that Drake continues to do from that perspective. So I think it is, you know, debatable, but I mean, people do definitely add some weight to the artists themselves.[00:46:18] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And, you know, I think he should be around Eminem and whether they're both too high is an open question, but, you know, there's no doubting the commercial viability of what he's done. He did start more side businesses in Eminem, right? With OVO, whether it's the label, the festival, the clothing line, you know, he started a whiskey brand called Virginia black, which I tried once.It tasted okay. but I don't think it's selling, you know, I don't know if he's even still doing it. yeah, he is definitely involved as a startup investor, so maybe, you know, we'll see some exits and we start to think of him differently at that point. But, yeah, you know, again, I think it's, some voters just kind of overweighted, you know, musical prowess and pop culture influence.And if you're talking about that, I, I don't know anybody who's been as influential in the past 15 years. I mean, he's, you know, he's the most streamed artist of all time and that's got to count for something.[00:47:08] Dan Runcie: Right. I know his cannabis line failed, but there's a lot of people, even people that we'll get to in this list that have also had failed or struggling cannabisbusinesses. And, there's a lot that we could discuss there, but moving on number 15 is Sylvia Robinson, the originator.[00:47:26] Zack Greenburg: I think she deserves to be in the top five, personally. because if there were no Sylvia Robinson, yeah, I mean, I don't know that we have hip hop and, you know, it's, you know, for those who don't know the story, she was running sugar hill records with her husband, Joe sylvia was actually a child star singer herself.And, you know, they kind of had this like middling existence with their label. And then all of a sudden she's at this birthday party that she didn't even want to go to in Harlem and she sees Lovebug Starsky up on the microphone. A hip hop hippie to the hippie to the hip hip hop. You know, this is early, early seventies.She's never heard anything like it. All the kids, you know, hands in the air, like you just don't care. And the whole thing. she tries to get Lovebug to sign. There's some kind of dispute, like with his management, never happens. And so she just goes to the pizzeria in New Jersey, finds three kids, get him, gets them to talk real fast over this record is how she described it.and that's, you know, that's Rapper's Delight. That's the first hip hop song on Wax. That's the first hit. you know, that sort of spawns the whole genre. So, you could certainly argue, that, you know, she, borrowed or she hired, hired people who borrowed or whatever to do this, you know, like the idea that, that the first hip hop, track on wax was like, you know, originated in a pizza shop in New Jersey is really unfortunate cause it started at the Bronx, but like, you know, Sylvia came from Harlem.She, you know, she, she knew that world. Like, you know, she was part of the music business and, for better or worse, she took hip hop from being, you know, just basically like spoken word in person kind of thing to being, you know, national events. Would it have happened eventually?Yeah, I think so. But you know, who knows? I mean, it could have taken years longer and if it took years longer, you know, are we going to have the eighties with like run DMC and Def Jam and all that? Like, you know, I don't know. I mean, it, could have taken a lot longer to get off the ground if she hadn't done what she'd done.And, you know, I don't think we, I don't think we should really be dinging Sylvia Robinson for her Machiavellian tactics, given some of the other people on this list, you know, we're talking like Suge Knight and whoever else, you know, there's quite nefarious characters, you know, as we get higher up too in this list.So, you know, I don't think anything she did was. remotely as bad as, as like a lot of the dudes on this list. and, you know, so, you know, let's, I think we give her her due and yeah, I would definitely put her higher, but, you know, I think that's part of the deal when, when you have somebody who's that early on.You know, people are going to say, Oh, well, you know, the total gross is not quite as much as so and so or whatever the case may be. And she wasn't as famous as some of the artists. So, but you know, she's up there, I mean, ahead of some pretty big names, Drake, Eminem, what have you. So, I think she's getting some flowers here[00:50:00] Dan Runcie: The total gross knock is always one that makes me roll my eyes a bit because even if you take out the inflation aspect and the amount of money that's now in the industry, this is something that happens with pioneers in any type of industry. They are the ones that take the early hits to make it possible.She and her work is what made it possible for rappers to like, she and her workers have made it possible for the message and anything else that we then see after that. Yes. Sugar Hill. records did have its struggles, afterward, like many other labels. But what do you think about broader context of the eighties being a very tough time in general for black music?And there were only a certain number of decision makers in power that could make that happen. Yeah. You have to take that into account. And then additionally, she did stuff outside of even just this record label itself. As you mentioned, she was a recording artist herself. She also owned a nightclub. So there were other mogul type things that she had her hands.And so shout out to Sylvia, who knows where this would be without her.[00:51:00] Zack Greenburg: And probably worth caveating also that, you know, she did have some, Disputes over paying artists, as the years went on. So did like really a lot of people on this list is we could do like a whole separate, you know, like has some kind of dispute on how they pay artists. So, you know, that, that's probably worth noting too, but yeah, I mean, so does everybody else.And, you know, I think she deserves her flowers.[00:51:22] Dan Runcie: Number 14, Dame Dash,[00:51:25] Zack Greenburg: Another, another hot one coming in. I mean, I think a lot of people would disagree with this, but you know, some people would put them even higher. I mean, I think he might be the most polarizing name on this entire list. Like some people had on top five, you know, some people didn't list them at all.you know, I think it kind of comes in. We've had this conversation before. Would there be a Jay Z without a Damon Dash? you know, I mean, I think so, but it's that part of the, you know, we've talked about him in the context of startups and do you, you know, you need a different kind of founder for your like pre seed days than you do for your series B.you know, if you're like a mafia, family, you need like a wartime Don, you know, versus like a peacetime Don or whatever it's called. But like, you know, I think, Dame Dash is a wartime Don. He's a seed stage startup founder. and he does it fair as well. You know, when it comes to like the growth stage and the corporate boardrooms and stuff, but, you know, there's no denying his brilliance.you know, I think what he did, you know, certainly with rock aware, you know, expanding, the Roc-A-Fella empire beyond music. you know, maybe he realized that Jay was eventually going to leave and that they just, it wasn't going to be forever. And so he wanted to get his hands into, you know, as many different areas as he could, but, you know, there's like a lot of pro and a fair bit of con, but, you know, I think again, he's one who, you know, the pro outweighed the con, he didn't kill anybody, you know, so there's some people on here who did.yeah, the con is only like so much con in my opinion.[00:52:56] Dan Runcie: This conversation makes me think about, that backstage documentary that. Roc-A-Fella had put out after the hard knock life tour. And there's that infamous scene of Dave dash yelling and swearing at Kevin Lyles, who was at Def Jam at the time about the jackets and where what logo was supposed to be, or something other than that.And thinking about that in context now of like, you know, how we talked about Kevin Lyles and everything he was able to do from that run and still can continue to do. And with where Dame Dash is, is in his career, Dame Dash doing his thing. I think he very much lived through and practice and preach the ownership standards that worked for him, where he has Dame Dash Studios, Dame Dash this, and he's been able to.Create exactly what he wanted to. We heard him on that infamous 2015 breakfast club interview where he's yelling at DJ Envy and Charlemagne about, Oh, well, if your son wants a job, can you get him a job here at power 105 or whatever? No. Well, I can do him at where I'm at. And as comic as the delivery was, there is some aspect of mogul dumb.That is a bit of that King making aspect of, okay, can you create opportunities for others around you? What those opportunities look like definitely vary. And I think that is a factor. So I do highlight that is something that Dame is able to do. And Dave is also similar to he's similar to a polarizing basketball player in the sense that the media may look and be like, why do you all fuck with this guy?Like, what's going on? But if you ask the people that are actually in it, a lot of that would be like, oh, well, you got to look at Dame dash, Dame dash is the guy. And when I have. Interviewed. I'm sure you've interviewed and talked to many of young artists, too, or young label executives, too. A lot of them will reference Dave Dash.A lot of them will look at what he was able to do alongside Roc-A-Fella, almost in the same way that, you know, players will swear by Kyrie or swear by James Harden or some other type of athlete that may be polarizing in their own right. And the media is like, Oh, why do you all like this guy? And it's like, Oh, well, no, you don't understand.So there's something about. The people, and obviously I say that being self aware is us as people more so on the media side, as opposed to being in it themselves. But there's something about these young artists and moguls as well that have always looked up and respected what Dame has built. And even though it may not resonate, like, personally, I acknowledge that.[00:55:23] Zack Greenburg: I would say, if you're going to make a basketball reference, Maybe not personality, but like basketball style, I'd almost liken him to Carmelo Anthony, you know, like he's an isolationist. He's a scorer, like, you know, he may not be very good at distributing the basketball, but like, you know, you throw him the ball in the corner and he's going to find a way to get it in.And, You know, like a lot of people wouldn't think that he belongs in the Hall of Fame at all, you know, but some people would, be insistent on it. So, you know, yeah, I think that sort of like singular focus, you know, you could definitely give him credit for that,[00:55:55] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Number 13, we are Cohen.[00:55:58] Zack Greenburg: man, another like bulldozer of a human being, but, you know, certainly somebody who, you know, maybe he has also got the finger roll, you know, like he, he can have a light touch when needed. you know, I think just like in terms of longevity, we talk about longevity with some of the names on this list, you know, Leroy was there in the very beginning of hip hop, you know, managing rappers, and it gives the road manager run DMC, taking the leader

There's been some talk about 2023 not producing a hip-hop album with any substance. Some think things are too mundane & other feels the genre is on a decline. Well much like the infamous 1995 Source Awards....the south got something to say! Enter Killer Mike and his latest solo offering MICHAEL, lots of fanfare & acclaim, but let's put it to the #Hard2Earn test & see what the guys have to say.

We can't tell the story of hip-hop without mentioning Diddy and the record label he started. Bad Boy took off in 1993 after Puff was fired from Uptown Records. He brought TheNotorious B.I.G. with him from Uptown Record, and signed a 50-50 deal with Clive Davis's Arista Records, and it was off to the races.Bad Boy survived the tragic fallout of the East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry, and reached even bigger heights after Biggie's death. Puff began to rise as a solo artist, but did the rest of the artists suffer as a result?Friend of the pod, Zack O'Malley Greenburg, joins me on this episode to cover 30 years of Bad Boy Entertainment. Here's what we hit on:0:35 Sean Combs come-up story5:16 Diddy breaks in with Uptown Records8:22 Starting Bad Boy Records14:11 What sets Diddy apart21:04 How Diddy controlled the narrative23:58 Bad Boy's formula for success 29:00 East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry30:39 Bad Boy's historic 1997-98 run45:42 Bad Boy curse?48:44 Diddy's reputation compared to Cash Money54:50 Best signing? 55:19 Best business move?57:19 Best dark horse move?1:00:19 Missed opportunity?1:08:52 Possibility of biopic?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: Diddy's ability to sort of walk the line and step back, you know, I think that's what ultimately kept Bad Boy in the position that, you know, that stayed and kept him in the position that he continued to be in.[00:00:09] Dan Runcie Outro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:35] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is another case study style breakdown, and this time we chose to dive deep on the one, the only Bad Boy Entertainment when it comes to branding and when it comes to marketing. I don't know if there's another record label that has as identifiable as a sound of vibe as bad Boy, you knew what that vibe was.Puff said it himself, they take hits from the eighties, but do it sound so crazy? And that was the formula, and it worked time and time again. What Puff did was smart, it was a modern approach to how Berry Gordy approached the record business with Motown. But then he put his own spin on it, interning with Andre Harrell at Uptown Records, learning from him and then putting his own spin on it even more, making it relevant for the 90s and truly becoming the icon that was synonymous with shiny suits with that Bad Boy flavor.And so much of the success of one of the best MCs ever, the Notorious BIG, some of the most iconic R&B groups at the time, and singers such as Faith Evans, 112 and many more. And plenty of artists that unfortunately also had plenty of challenges and issues when it came to payment, drama, legal disputes and more.And we dive into all of that. I'm joined again by Zack O'Malley Greenburg. He wrote a book called Three Kings, where he dived deep into Diddy, as well as Dr. Dre and Jay-Z in this book, so he's well-versed and shared a bunch of great stories in this one. So let's dive in, really excited for this one. Hope you enjoy it.[00:02:06] Dan Runcie: We are back to talk about the wondrous world that Sean Combs built himself Bad Boy entertainment and joined by the one and only Zach Greenburg. Welcome back[00:02:15] Zack Greenburg: Oh, thanks for having me, Dan.[00:02:17] Dan Runcie: Bad Boy is so fascinating because Puff is someone who has in many ways been this larger than life character even before people knew him externally as that.And he has really stayed true with that throughout his time in hip hop and even before then. And most people know the origin story starting back in his days at Howard. But I think based on the research you've done, I know you have some backstory with some of the lessons and some of the things he did even before that.So walk us back. Who was puff in the early days before the world? Got to know him.[00:02:52] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the funny part is that, that puffy was always puffy and, you know, it just took a while for a little while for the world to kind of figure it out. But you know, there are these kind of consistent themes when you go back through his youth and you, kind of get a sense of who he was.And, you know, I remember writing my book Three Kings, you know, Diddy being one of these kings, talking to people who grew up around him. He really was that same guy from the very beginning. So even when he was a kid, you know, he spent his very earliest years in Harlem, but then moved to Mount Vernon, kind of a suburban neighborhood.you know, just north of the city limits. And you know, he had not just one paper route, he had multiple paper routes and on every, you know, every route. He had this philosophy of like, he wasn't just gonna take the paper and fling it into the family's yard. He was gonna get up and he was gonna go, you know, open the screen door and put the paper in between the screen door and the main door so that people didn't have to go up and do so like he was, you know, that dedicated, that hardworking from the very beginning. you know, I think another story I learned from his youth, Puffy was like, there was some, Some debate, you know, some kid had a pool party and, Puffy wasn't invited. there may have been some racism at play, we don't know. But anyway, Puffy's solution was to convince his mom to build a pool in their backyard and then start his own pool parties and, you know, I mean, it's like the most puffy move ever, right? So he just ended up finding, you know, wealthier and wealthier backers to build the proverbial pool as the years went on.[00:04:23] Dan Runcie: That is the perfect story to encapsulate him because I feel like I could imagine other people having white parties. He doesn't get invited to the white party, so he's like, all right, bet I'm gonna go start my own white party. And now it's this annual thing, however many years running.[00:04:37] Zack Greenburg: Exactly. I mean, and you know, you know, as you kind of trace his evolution, you know, in between it was the same thing. So, you know, we all know the Howard Days, he was taking the Amtrak up, sometimes hiding in the bathroom, so they didn't have to pay for the tickets. He didn't have any money but, you know, he would go up back up to New York on the weekends, he would plan these parties.He started to build a name for himself. and it was exactly that, you know, so from the pool parties, in Mount Vernon to the parties that he was throwing, you know, his colleges to the White party, you get that through line of Puffy that, you know, kind of continues all the way through, through the Ciroc era, you know, I think, which really makes this sort of art celebration, ethos, you know, all the more credible, right.[00:05:16] Dan Runcie: Right, and you mentioning him taking Amtrak. Of course, that's him going from DC to New York to go to Uptown Records where he pushes and fights to get his unpaid internship. Working with Andre Harrell, who was on the Ascension himself. He had started that record label in the mid to late eighties. He then sees the rise.He's early on, new Jack Swing has so many of the early folks making that sound there. And then Puff comes in, he sees a opportunity to elevate and position that brand because the whole thing that Uptown was about, they were trying to push Ghetto Fabulous. They wanted to show that there was a opportunity for people who grew up with nothing to feel like they had that release.And Andre Harrell, he since passed away a few years ago, but he spoken about this a few times and you can see how Puff at the time adapted a lot of that. He worked with Jodeci. He was so integral with how he styled them and making sure they had the right jackets. And at the time, Jodeci was very much seen as this alternative to Boys to Men, Boys to Men was a bit more buttoned up.They made music that was G-rated that you could play everywhere. And Jodeci definitely leaned into the sex appeal, which is something that we saw continue play through with. Bad Boy records of Bad Boy Entertainment in the future. He did similar with Mary J. Blige, taking her from just being a R&B singer to giving her more of a hip hop Ben, and doing a bit more of that crossover vibe, which is something that we saw again with Bad Boy too.And as Puff continued to show his influence, things started to clash because the intern then becomes VP of A and R, and that VP in A and R starts to butt heads and really challenge Andre Harrell on a number of things.[00:07:06] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And, you know, I think, you know, like you said, Puff really had an idea of what Uptown could be that was, you know, a little bit different from Andre. But it really worked, right? It was the idea that it was, it had a little bit more of an edge to it. you know, like Jodeci had a little more edge than boys to men.you know, that every artist that was gonna be out on Bad Boy would have like, you know, would have that level of class, but also would have kind of like, you know, kind of like a street smart edge. And so, right, it was like the Tims and the backwards hat, but, you know, maybe you had like a nice jacket.It was that kind of mix. And it was very much like in line with Puffy himself. and I think, you know, it's a theme that you kind of started to see. as kind of, he moved on, you know, whether it was Bad Boy or Roc or whatever it was, the thing was synonymous with Puffy. Puffy was synonymous with the thing. But as he began to later on build these assets, you know, he could sell the businesses in a way that he couldn't sort of sell his own image and likeness necessarily. So, that started with, Uptown for sure, it was Andre's thing, but it started to feel like it was Puffy's thing.And I think there was some thought that, you know, that there sort of couldn't be two kings in the castle. And Andre eventually pushed him out and, you know, that kind of left it, the Diddy, you know, in his early twenties kind of figuring out like, Hey, you know, what am I gonna do next? How am I gonna really start my own thing here?[00:08:22] Dan Runcie: And I have this quote from Andre. This was from a documentary a few years later. He says, when Puff got fired, he was on payroll and his artists were on payroll. He's still recording his artists, but he was able to find the best deal, so we never fired him to hurt him. But he fired him to basically make him rich.I will say that quote is much nicer than certain things that Andre said immediately after that firing, especially in the 90s. But it was cool to see the two of them find opportunities to continue to work together after that. But I think the key thing from his time in Uptown is that he was able to find and work with art is that eventually he started working with on Bad Boy.That's when he first works and discovers Big. That's when he first works and really begins to hone in on that sound. And then he officially launched Bad Boy in 1991, but it really wasn't until 1993. He starts working with Big, he starts working with Craig Mack and then it all leads up to this deal that he ends up signing with Arista records to officially do this joint venture with Arista.Arista, of course, was run by Clive Owen, legendary music executive, and they do their 50 50 split. And as the story goes, Clive was on the fence. At first he wanted to hear more, but then Puff Plays flavor in your ear. Craig Max first single, and he was like, all right, I need to be part of this, whatever it is.So that was the song that took things off and made it happen.[00:09:50] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, Clive Davis, of course, you know, legendary, record men, you know, discovered Janice Joplin, Whitney Houston, Puffy, like you could say, he discovered all these people. they were, they were kind of there already, and, I sort of suspect they would've had their success even if it were not for Clive Davis.But, you know, that, we could debate that. But, know, Clive Davis certainly had an eye for talent, one way or the other. So, I mean, I think what's really fascinating too is, you know, you got think where Puffy was at that point in his life before he got that deal. He was shopping Bad Boy around right?To a bunch of different labels and it says so much about him and his whole ethos, the way he approached it, and this was another anecdote that I found in my reporting, by one of the founders of The Fader who happened to work at EMI at the time. He was in the room when Puffy brought the Bad Boy deal, to the folks at e Emmi and, you know, so like, just to refresh, here's Puff early twenties, just been fired.Just had his first kid, I think. And also, you know, he'd been a part of, this charity basketball tournament at City College where a bunch of people got, crushed in a stampede. He was ultimately found, you know, not guilty of any kind of criminal charges or anything, but his name was all over the papers.Like there's a lot of negative press around him. He was kind of, you know, almost radioactive at this point, or at least one might have thought that turned out he wasn't. But, so anyway, he goes into this meeting with e Emmi and, you know, Their big thing was, Vanilla Ice. And he sort of goes into this meeting and he's like, that dude's corny.Like, I have no interest in anything having to do with Vanilla Ice. Let me tell you how to run your business. And, you know, so he proceeds to like, give them this vision. And then at the end of it, I mean, and I'll read the quote cause it's just so good. he says, when you guys get in a room with all them suits and you're gonna decide what you're gonna pay Puff, just when you get to a number that you think is gonna make Puff happy, I love how he was referring to himself the third person, right?He says, get crazy on top of that. And then when you're there, I want whipped cream and a cherry on top. and this is the best part, he goes, I don't even want to think about the money. That shouldn't even be an issue. Don't be coming at me with no n-word money. Goodbye. And like that was vintage puff.Like that was billionaire Puffy. Before he was billionaire, before he even had. Like before we had a company. So, you know, I think there's just such a great lesson in there, which is kind of like, you know, the sort of, if you can pull off the, fake it till you make it, if you can have that kind of swagger. And to be fair, not available to everybody and like, you know, don't try this at home, kind of if you don't have it.But man, if you can pull that off, if you have that kind of confidence in yourself, you can accomplish some pretty incredible things. He didn't even, you know, end up going with EMI but I think he made a similar pitch at Arista and, you know, and that ultimately got him the deal, that created Bad Boy and, you know, that was really the engine for so much of, what he ended up achieving as the years went on.[00:12:46] Dan Runcie: That story is one of the reasons why he has lived on to become meed and in many ways become a bit of a gift himself. Whether you look at the Chappelle Show skit where, Dave Chappelle is making fun of making the band, and he has that whole sketch about, I want you to get me some Cambodian milk from a goat, or whatever it is.And it's something that sounds completely absurd, but one, it sounded like a lot of the shit that he would say in that MTV show make in the band. And it sounds exactly like that quote that you just shared from that story. The difference is he did this, whether it was for pure entertainment on a show like making the band or when there was really things at stake, like he was at this point when there wasn't a deal in place, he was recently fired.But regardless of whether he's up or down, trying to get it still the same guy.[00:13:39] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. You know, and I think it just kind of goes to the point like, did he creates brands. He is the brand. He imbued the brand with his essence. And then the brand becomes that much more valuable, whether it's a brand that he can sell, you know, for some huge gain, or whether it's a brand that is compensating him, you know, handsomely for his association or in some cases both. That's kind of the formula and, you know, not everybody can pull it off because not everybody has a brand that is that clear.[00:14:11] Dan Runcie: And let's dig into this because I think this is one of the things that does set him apart. Denny used to be a club promoter as well. And this is a persona that we've seen oftentimes in music where the club promoter or the party promoter works their way up to then become the executive. You see it now with Scooter Braun, someone who's a billionaire now, or close to it in his own right.And he was a party promoter in Atlanta. You saw with Desiree Perez who now runs Roc Nation. She was a party and a club promoter before as well. And you've seen it plenty of times before and I think there's a few things there. There's a hustle and a relentlessness that you need to have to make that work.You need to create momentum around some of that isn't there. You need to understand and be tapped into what people want to hear and what people wanna do and how people wanna feel entertained and how they wanna leave from something feeling like, damn, I had a good time. We need to go do that again. And that is a lifestyle and what Puff did was aligned himself by building businesses that allowed him to do that. Some of those businesses worked better than others, but I think that is the key through line there. On the flip side, I do think that some of these operators and business leaders can often struggle with the bigger picture because there's so many more elements to building companies outside of the marketing brand promotion and those things, and I think we can get into some of that here because I think we saw some of those dynamics play out with Bad Boy as well.[00:15:39] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And you know, I mean, I think one of the things about Bad Boy is it wasn't like this was the first record label to develop an ethos and kind of build a lifestyle around it. And, almost like, assembly line, right? I mean, Puffy was doing that himself at Uptown before he just took that same idea and, Pufified it even more.But, you know, I would kind of almost liken it to Motown. I mean, if you look at, Berry Gordy's role, I mean, you see Berry Gordy, credited as a producer on so many, of those songs and, you know, he wasn't like the only person in the room, producing right? he was putting together the right songwriters, the right musicians, everybody to be in the same place. And he was tying it all together with this kind of Motown ethos. And when, you know, when you had a Motown record coming out, you knew what it was. And I think that's why people in the old days used to be fan people would be fans of like, specific labels, right? They're like, I like the stuff that this label puts out, you know, I trust them. It's almost like, you know, I don't know, you know, Coachella sells out, even before the artists are announced because you know what you're gonna get if you like Coachella and you just trust that that's what's gonna happen. That's what it was like, Motown, that's what it's like with Bad Boy.So I think Diddy really followed that model that he was going to be the person, you know, sort of putting things together, you know, maybe he was going to, do a guest verse here and there. Maybe he was gonna be more involved in the production of this play of this song or another song. but it was really more in the vision and the ethos of the brand, the Bad Boy brand, what that looked like, what success looked like, you know, the Diddy version of success looked like maybe a little different from the Uptown Andre Herrell version. And, you know, it was like, like a little more swagger, like, you know, like a little more edge to it. And he was really able to kind of like, make that tangible. So, you know, I would keep going back to that as like something that sets him apart, you know, following the footsteps of the likes of Berry Gordy and[00:17:34] Dan Runcie: The Motown example is good because they also were able to maximize the most from the broader roster they had from the hits that they had Berry Gordy, of course, was famous for one artist on his record, has a huge deal. Okay, we're gonna get another artist on that record on that label to then do it again.You saw that with Aint' No Mountain High Enough. Marvin Gaye has his version that goes through the roof. Okay, let's get Diana Ross to do her own version, her own spin on it. That becomes a song in its own right. And you saw, did he do this to some extent with remixes? How one artist had the remix that worked out well.Okay, or one artist had the original song that worked out well, okay, let's get the remix now. Let's get the whole Bad Boy crew on this remix to go do their own verse and do this thing. They did that time and time again, and then in the early two thousands he had that album. We invented the remix, and there's plenty of debate on whether or not they actually did invent the remix, but that remix that they did of Flava in Ya Ear with, Craig Mack, and they had Biggie on that one as well. That is one of the more classic iconic remixes that people do go back to. And I think the other way that they're , similar too is some of the disputes that artists have had about pavements and things like that, which we can get into eventually.But that's always been the model. I think there in many ways, you're right, it's more like Motown than it is like uptown.[00:18:58] Zack Greenburg: for sure. And you know, on the Biggie point, I mean, people forget sometimes, but Biggie was originally signed to Uptown and Puffy had to go and get him back, and I think they were able to negotiate his release or his transfer of his deal from Uptown to Bad Boy for something like half a million dollars, which, you know, turned out to be, a pretty good deal all the way around.So, you know, he knew that sometimes he would have to shell out and, you know, he did from time to time. That certainly didn't stop there from being disputes, as time went on. But, you know, I think one of the other fascinating things is sort of this interplay, you know, he really walked this line, of sort of like, you know, the corner in the corner office, right?you know, the boardroom, and the street, and, he played up this sort of like lineage that he had of the Harlem gangster world like his dad, Melvin was an associate of Frank Lucas from, you know, the subject of American gangster. And you know, like his dad was known in Harlem. I think they called him, pretty Melvin.Like he was very flashy, you know, he always had the best suits and, you know, and all that kind of thing. But, you know, he definitely came from that sort of like grand gangster era. you know, Frank Lucas and Nick Barnes and all those guys. I mean, that was sort of Puffs lineage.And he definitely played up and he certainly played up, you know, sort of different sort of, street edge, you know, when things got heated in the Bad Boy Death Row situation. But at the same time, he never really wanted to go too deep into it.And I talked to somebody who sort of grew up around him, and he called him Jimmy Clean Hands, you know, because he didn't really want to get like, like he used the association. When it was sort of convenient, but also he didn't want to get too deeply associated, with that side of things.So, to me it's, a really fascinating tightrope walk, how he pulled it off. And, if he'd gone further, toward that side of things, I don't think that would've ended well for him. And if he hadn't gone quite as far as he might not have had, you know, a certain credibility or an edge that, you know, that contributed to so much of the success of Bad Boy, especially in those days.[00:21:04] Dan Runcie: And he did it at a time in the 90s when it was easier for hip hop stars to be able to control the narrative and push what they wanna push and not have other things cover or not have other things be uncovered, or all these internet rabbit holes. I could imagine him trying to do this 10, 15 years later, and it could be a situation like Rick Ross where all of a sudden there's photos of you as a correctional officer popping up on the internet and people are like, bro, what the hell's going on here?I thought every day you were hustling. I could have seen something like that happening the same way that Diddy, but by the time that plenty of people have had those debates about, oh, well, you know, Diddy was actually a kid that grew up in the suburbs and went to college and X, Y, Z, and there's plenty of ways that you could flip that story, but by the time that even became a discussion point, at least in circles where I heard him growing up, he was already an established star.So there was really nothing else that you could do at that point.[00:21:58] Zack Greenburg: yeah. And I guess he could walk that line because he really did kind of embody both, right? Like he was the son of a, you know, a Harlem gangster. he was born in Harlem. His dad was killed, you know, on I think Central Park West and 108th Street or something, you know, in a dispute a case of I think mistaken identity.I mean, so there were real, you know, tough things that, he was born into. And at the same time, he was also, you know, like the college dropout. Like you know, he went to school, he did his thing like, you know, you could say he was like a proto backpack rapper in some ways, like if you wanted to spin it that way.And he kind of embodied both of these worlds, but I think that really, if he hadn't actually lived both those lives, it would've been harder to sort of embody them simultaneously as he did.[00:22:47] Dan Runcie: And even in him, in his own right, there were many incidents that he had that people felt could have supported this narrative that he wanted to, for better or worse, whether it was the 1990 Club nightclub, the 1999 nightclub shooting after the Nas Hate Me Now Music video, him and his team going into Steve Stout's office and then, you know, assaulting him.And then everything that came up after that, or even as recently as within the past 10 years, the incident at UCLA with the coach yelling at his son. There's been plenty of things that have came up that show, you know, that the relentless, the temperament that could often work against his advantage as well.[00:23:26] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I mean, you know, didn't he bash Steve Stout over the head with a champagne bottle or something? I mean, you know, but what's that line? We back friends like Puffy and Steve Stout, you know, like it, 50 cent had that line. I think he has a remarkable ability to, you know, to end up being sort of friendly with, people who he had these disputes with in the past.So, you know, whether, Steve Stout or, Shine or whoever, like, he finds, various ways to, sort of bridge divides in the end. I don't know how it turned out with the coach from, was it UCLA, or USC. But I suspect that's fine too. but yeah, he does find a way of patching things up.[00:23:59] Dan Runcie: No, he definitely has and we could talk a little bit more about some of the disputes that came with some of the artists, but I do wanna talk a bit about the business of Bad Boy itself and how it went about things. And one of the things that we saw from successful record labels, of course, Zach and I have done past conversations on Cash money, and Roc-A-Fella, and they'll always find innovative ways to work within their constraints or find ways to make things work even when you don't have all of the resources in the world.And one of the things that Bad Boy did was they really leaned into sampling and sampling hits from the eighties and making them the most successful things they could be. What's that line from that May song Making, taking hits from the eighties make 'em soundso Make it sound so crazy. Yeah.so they have their in-house production as well with hit men who then do most of the production, and they give you that Bad Boy sound that you can identify when you hear it immediately on a song, whether it's a total song or it's a one 12 song.And they were able to do that and that formula worked so well because you had this generation that grew up listening to those songs because their parents heard all those songs as well. These are black music classics and then they were able to repurpose them and because of the time and things weren't quite as oversaturated, it sounded quite authentic in a way where I think even some samples now can feel almost a bit forced because you can be like, okay, they're really trying to work that artist.And who knows? I might be also looking at this now, someone in my thirties as opposed to in the 90s, looking at it as someone that's growing up experiencing this. But still, I do think that there was a bit of like a authenticity and a vibe that they were able to create with each of those sample tracks.And plenty people tried to do it. Of course they didn't invent it. I know that Death Row and NWA, Dr. Dre had done it successfully before Diddy, but Diddy and Bad Boy were definitely able to put their own unique spin on making that as effective as it was.[00:25:57] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, I mean, I think to your point, but it, like it really opened up this sort of aspect of mainstream hip hop when, you know, maybe there were some radio stations that weren't gonna play some of these songs, but, you know, like a puffy song or a biggie song ordinarily, but, you know, if you have like, Oh, that's David Bowie in the background.Like I'm familiar with this. then, you might be sort of like more inclined to put it on the radio if you were a certain kind of dj, which then might reach a certain kind of listener who didn't, you know, ordinarily listen in hip hop and, you know, and you kind of have this, kind of snowball effect.you know, sure.[00:26:32] Dan Runcie: And then from a personal perspective, I'll be the first to admit the amount of songs that I had heard the first time as Bad Boy Version. And then growing up, you then later hear the original one that they sampled from the eighties or seventies, whatever Disco tracker, soul Tracker was, and you're like, oh, that's what that song was from.It's happened endless times and it continues to still happen.[00:26:54] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I must confess, I heard I'll be missing you before, I heard I'll be watching you, so, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, so yeah, and I think a lot of that narrative around the sort of peak Bad Boy sampling era, you know, I think it gets unfairly criticized as sort of being uncreative and like, you know, essentially just being cover and, not adding much to it.But, I disagree entirely, and I think that in addition to creating a different song with a different vibe and everything, you know, th those songs did introduce a whole generation of people, to eighties music that, you know, they may not have been alive to have heard, you know, from, you know, let's say I was born 85, some of these songs came out before I was born.So, yeah, I think that does get missed sometimes.[00:27:35] Dan Runcie: Yeah, and I'm in the same boat. I knew Juicy before. I knew the original Juicy Fruit. I knew Mase Bad Boy before I knew Hollywood Swinging, and I could go on and on with all the songs that they were able to help in introduce and connect the dots there. Another thing that I think Bad Boy did at this time that was a continuation of Uptown was how intentional and borderline maniacal Puff was about continuing that image.So, they had the Can't Stop Boat Stop documentary that came out a couple years ago. And the artist from one 12, which was the main male R&B group that Puff had signed to the record label at the time, they said that they were styled, dressed and personified to be an image of Puff themselves, to essentially be Puff as R&B singers, which was really interesting.And then on the more controversial side, which I don't think would ever fly in the same way today, Faith Evans, who was married to Biggie at the time, she was sent by Puff to go to tanning salons cuz she a light-skinned black woman. They sent her to tanning salons so that her skin can be darker because he wanted to be able to sell her as a certain image that would never fly again the same way today.But that's how Puff was. He was so maniacal, even things down to the nail color and things like that for women. He wanted to make sure that people looked a certain way.[00:29:01] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, and I think what's, you know, especially interesting when you, kind of zoom back on the 90s and that, that era of Bad Boys, you know, given the level of control he had over, you know, that level of detail, you know, the whole east coast, west coast thing, the whole Bad Boy Death Row thing obviously got way out of control.and, you know, culminating in, the desert of big and pop and you know, obviously we don't know exactly who was behind each of those things, but it's, you know, still kind of debate to this day. But, the fact is that, you know, got kind of wrapped up in this kind of, know, sort of thing, like the fact that Puffy could bring Bad Boy back from that, and kind of like continue to have the same brand, you know, after everything that went down, you know, I think is another testament to like the identity of the brand, right? I mean, you know, cuz I remember in that period of time hip hop was really under fire from, you know, so, you know, like the Tipper Gores of the world and the parental advisories and all that, and there was this narrative of like, oh, this music is dangerous.And there was a whole period of time, you know, after everything that went down, in the mid to late 90s, like there were questions like, is hip hop? You know, really a viable commercial genre? Are brands really gonna want to be attached to this? you know, because of the violence that happened, you know, really publicly there.And I think, you know, whether you love him or hate him, like, I think he deserves some credit for pulling things back from the brink. you know, regardless of whatever role he played in getting them, to the brink, but he really did kind of pull things back from the brink and show that hip hop could be this, you know, commercial force.you know, that would be like a mainstream success sort of thing. And really pretty quickly, after all this went down,[00:30:39] Dan Runcie: If you go back to winter 96, the height of this beef, you have that infamous vibe cover with Tupac, Dr. Dre Snoop, and Suge Knight. They're there, the Beef and Bad Boy and, Biggie as well. Were on respective vibe covers as well. If you asked people, okay, five, 10 years from now, which of these two record labels will be in the stronger position, you probably would've put your money on Death Row.To be frank, they had the better artists just from like a roster perspective. With those four, the leadership seemed in many ways quite as strong and there were similarities there as well. You had these two relentless, large and life figures. Granted, Suge and Puff are very different in a lot of ways, but that's where you would've taken things.But then two years later, it's a completely different story. Death Row is imploding and bad Boy had the biggest year that any record label has ever had. If you look back at that 1997 to 1998 stretch, and this is after the death of the biggest rapper as well, they end up releasing Biggie's second album, Life After Death, ironically, 16 days after he passed away.And then Puff himself becomes this larger than life icon. He releases his own album, Puffy, P uff Daddy, the Family, No Way Out. And they continue to go on this run. And in many ways, as other heads and other figures in hip hop have faded and necessarily taken their own path, he continued to stay on that.It really is a remarkable journey when you look at each of those steps in it, because I probably would've put my money on Death Row if I didn't know better.[00:32:21] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, it sure felt that way, right? I mean, but if you kinda, if you compare the leadership, if you compare Puffy to Suge, you know, I think that so much of, you know, the back and forth between Bad Boy and Death Row, you know, it was a case of like, these guys were playing a role, right?I mean, they were, it is funny in some of my reporting, people say like, both Puffy and Suge, especially Suge, were sort of, it was like they were acting in their own bad gangster movie. And I think the main difference was, you know, Suge really came to believe it and live it in a way, that Diddy, didn't quite do it you know, as we were saying before, Diddy kind of walked that line.but Suge just kind of got deeper and deeper into it, and that was kind of who he was, you know, all the time. So, you know, that there's not really like, kind of like a way to, back out, you know, to kind of come up for air when you, when you've kind of like gotten that deep into it like Suge did. I think that was the main difference, you know? I mean, I think he became just completely, you know, is like possessed by this image that he created for himself. And he started to live it, you know, all the time and Diddy's ability to sort of walk the line and step back, you know, I think that's what ultimately kept Bad Boy in the position that, you know, that stayed and kept him in the position that he continued to be in.in[00:33:42] Dan Runcie: And everything that went down to that 1995 Source Awards is a perfect example about how they dealt with this whole thing. Suge and Death Row, famously win Best soundtrack for Above the Rim. He goes up, accepts the award, and he makes the infamous line. If you wanna sign with the label, you don't wanna have your executive producer all on the record, all on the video dancing come to Death Row, and then you see.Puff is there just looking, not saying anything, but everyone knows who he's talking about. But then later on the night Puff goes and is on the mic, he doesn't go necessarily take a shot back at Suge, but he just makes some type of more global statement, Hey, we're all in this together. I forget Puff's exact quote, but that's a perfect example of this, right?Of knowing that line cuz as we know, puff had a temper. Puff wasn't afraid to throw down in the moments, right? But he knew that in that stage, in that setting, especially even on his home turf, this was all the West Coast guys coming there because, you know, there was that famous scene of Snoop Dogg standing up being like, East Coast ain't got no love for Dr. Dre and Snoop.That's my horrible Snoop dog voice there. But Puff was cool, calm, collected during all of that, and as you put it, the difference behind the difference between the two of them is more than puff deciding to be all the video and should not be in, the video. The same way it was everything that you explained it more.And that is one of the biggest reasons, I think for that difference. And what helped Bad Boys essentially be even stronger, unfortunately. So after Big's death,[00:35:21] Zack Greenburg: yeah, totally. And you know, I think with Puff, he ultimately. He had that calm, cool, collected side to him that came out, you know, I think at, helpful points, but he was ultimately about, you know, protecting the bag, right? Like Diddy is a business, he is the business. And he, knows that he has to kind of keep that in mind.And I think, you know, Suge on the other hand just kind of like got too deep in his own narrative and couldn't kind of like poke his head up over the clouds and see the view from, you know, 35,000 feet or whatever. So, I think Diddy's business sense, you know, I think ultimately helped keep him, keep him, you know, just above the fray.So, still super remarkable when you look at it. He threw that first white party in 1998. That was really, that was what, like a year, a year after Biggie was killed. And, you know, just to give you an idea of the kind of stuff that was going down. I mean, he bought this house in East Hampton, and he decided that he was gonna throw the most exclusive party people just to give the background.I did some reporting on this too, but like, it apparently if you got invited to the white party and Puffy's White party, you could not get in If you wore like a cream suit, they'd throw you out. If you had, like a blue stripe on your white shirt, they would throw you out.So you had like grown men running home to get like an all white proper shirt to go to these parties. And you know, like pretty quickly you had Martha Stewart and Howard Stern and Donna Koran and like, Donald Trump used to go to these parties, you know, with his daughter everything. So, it was kind of like a who's who of like a certain type of celebrity in the late 90s.And to go from, you know, from the depths of the East coast, West coast thing to that, in like a year. I think it just shows how Puffy's able to kind of flip things around and that's what he was able to do with Bad Boy. He pivoted the whole narrative and suddenly it was about Puff Daddy, the family.It was about, you know, Godzilla soundtrack and, you know, doing the thing with an orchestra and Jimmy Page and whatever. And, you know, singing, he's able to like recreate himself and also these brands like Bad Boy that's created in his image. you know, like in a remarkably quick timeframe, I think.[00:37:38] Dan Runcie: And to share some numbers on this era. This is peak Bad Boy. I would say this whole 97 to 1999 stretch. 1999, they sold 130 million worth of records. And for some context there, that was more than Madonna's Maverick label had that year. And this was, or Madonna, during that whole Ray of Light era, if I'm remembering the timeline, and Beautiful Stranger, if I remember the timeline correctly and more than Def Jam had at its peak that year, and this was, we did the Def Jam pod recently.This was around the same time that Lyor was trying to get X and Jay-Z to release those albums in the same year, and Bad Boy was still doing its thing then they're Puff Daddy and the Family Tour. They went on their own arena tour, they made 15 million that year, and Puff was starting to extend himself in the same way that we saw other moguls do the same.We talked in the Roc-A-Fella episode about, this was the time that Dame Dash had started to have different partnerships in film and district and sports and things like that. We saw Master P as well in the late 90s get his hand involved with a number of things. And one of the things that stuck out from this era is that Sean, is that, did he actually made a partnership with Johnny Cochran at the time, who was his attorney during all of the drama that he had in the late 90s after that nightclub shooting. And they started a management business that was gonna be focused on NBA players. And this just gives you an idea of all of the things that he was interested at the time.So it really is remarkable. And a lot of it came because Diddy himself was putting himself out there. He became the brand, it was him putting it on, and he really became the most successful artist on this label. But around this time, if you start talking to some of the other artists on the label, they start to get a bit frustrated because they feel it's no longer about their development.It is now about Puff building and doing everything for himself.[00:39:36] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, and I think that's when you know, he really starts to have all these brand extensions and, you know, you can see there's actually, I think the first Forbes cover on a hip hop artist was Puffy in 1999. And, it was a celebrity issue. And they had, Puffy and Jerry Seinfeld on the cover together, which always cracks me up.But, you know, Seinfeld's wearing this suit and Puffy's got this like Sean John denim t-shirt on. you know, just like a walking advertisement on the front of this magazine, which is just brilliant. And, you know, so he is got that going. He's like opening restaurants, you know, and like really kind of like realizing that, he could be not only the sort of the straw that stirs the drink and like the producer and whoever behind the scenes, but also the, you know, the main artist.And you know, I can imagine that being another artist on Bad Boy at this point, could start to get a little frustrating.[00:40:28] Dan Runcie: Right. And I think he had a quote around the time he wanted to be David Geffen. He wanted to be bigger than David Geffen. And of course this was Pete Geffen making moves with Dreamworks and everything else. Still being, in many ways, music's prominent mogul. That was due his thing there. And this was around the same time that we have another quote from, Andre Harrell.And I remember if you mentioned earlier, or if I mentioned earlier, there were some other quotes at the time that were less favorable than Diddy, than the ones that Harrell ended up having later. This was one of them. He said, and this was in a New York Times 1999 interview. He, Puff, gotta separate the young man thing from the business thing.If there's an incident where the situation is going in a way that he feels slighted or disrespected, the only way for him to handle it is as if he was a 45 year old IBM, CEO, which is a very interesting way. But he's essentially saying, Hey, you gotta change your act based on where you're going and where things are.And this is, that trending the line that we're talking about that I think that Diddy was eventually able to get to. But there was still some question marks about that and the trajectory in 1999. But to some extent, I think that kind of played to as factor. There was something about, especially some of those celebrities you mentioned, these are some more buttoned up, you know, white celebrities that never really did much on a, anything that was risky.So someone that has the image of Puff at that time, it's like, Ooh, I'm doing this risky thing. It's almost like the person in high school that wants to date the Bad Boy literally called his label bad voice. So they're leading into that whole persona, and I think it worked a bit to his advantage there as well.[00:42:07] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, totally. And you know, another thing people talk about, you know, I think that this time, and a lot of times I think there's a lot of jealousy going around and, you know, Puffy does this, puffy does that. But, know, one of the things that I, that I've always heard is that, Like, yeah, he's the last one at the club and you know, he's always out and, doing whatever, but he's also the, first one in, like, he outworks everybody and you know, he's somehow manages on, you know, like a couple hours of sleep at night or something.I mean, this is another thing you sometimes hear about fantastically successful people. I hear about this, about like Richard Branson and other people too, that they just can operate on four hours of sleep or something like that. And man, you know, I mean, if you think about it, if you have that much confidence and you're that brilliant, and then also you get an extra four hours a day, you know, you get another, was it, 28 hours a week, you get like an extra day every week basically to just like do shit.that's pretty hard to, contend with. I mean, like an extra day, like two extra waking days, to get things done. I mean, that, that's a pretty big advantage.[00:43:13] Dan Runcie: That was a whole 90s mentality from, overall, from people that were successful. Now that I'm thinking about it, cuz of course Richard Branson, that the 90s was a transformational decade for him. You are Bill Clinton, especially when he was president, talk about getting four or five hours of sleep at night, still being able to operate and do his thing.Even folks like Madeline Albright, who worked for him and in his cabinet were doing the same thing. And even someone like Kobe Bryant, there's that memorable. A piece of the Redeem Team documentary that came out on Netflix last year, where the younger guys at the time, LeBron, Bosh, Wade, were all going out to the club.Were all gonna go out for the night because that Olympics was in Beijing and they're coming back from the club and Kobe's on his way to the gym in the morning. And then Kobe spoke about this himself as well. He is like, no, I'm gonna do another practice to wake up earlier than everyone else. So you think about how this compounds over time, and that's what you're saying about how that essentially gives you two, three extra days a week.You do that time and time again, and just how much better you get. Granted the fact that those people can still do that while not requiring that much sleep. I know. I mean, I couldn't do that myself. I need those hours of sleep, but I commend those people that can.[00:44:25] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I mean, and who knows, you know, from a health perspective, how it affects you, you know, sort of like later in life and whatever. And, you know, do you lose more years of your life on the tail end because you didn't sleep more earlier? I mean, I guess we'll never really know, and it's hard to kind of pull out the factors and really test that. But in any case, you know, it does give a decided advantage, at least in the, present tense. And, he really kind of like worked with that. but you know, I mean, and then just when you thought that he was kind of out of the woods, with the specter of violence, you know, again, 1999, there's the whole thing in the club, a gun goes off, you know, there's this whole like, situation, Diddy and Shine are in the club. There's this dispute, whatever, and you know, who knows what really happened, but at the end of it, Shine went off to go to jail. And, you know, and Diddy ended up, you know, without really any kind of anything other than like, a little bit of reputational hit.So, I think that, you know, he continued to walk that line, right? And there were just these instances kept popping up. But once again, he always managed to sort of, you know, avoid any really serious repercussions and then, you know, go on to some even bigger and better commercial thing, shortly thereafter, you know, which he did eventually with Ciroc and, what have you.But, you know, it didn't really seem to hurt anything with Bad Boy. Although I think around that time, you know, his career as a solo artist started faltering a little bit to be sure[00:45:42] Dan Runcie: And I think this is a good time to talk about the proverbial Bad Boy curse that's been discussed. There are a number of artists that have had their issues with Bad Boys, specifically with Diddy in terms of whether they feel like they were fairly compensated for things. And it's artists like Faith Evans 112, Mark Curry, and the Locks as well as most recently as a couple years ago, Mase famously people that have publicly claimed to try to get what's theirs called out Diddy for not doing certain things.And then on the flip side, you have people that surrounded themselves with Diddy, and Diddy was the one that came out, scott free, and they were the ones that ended up in challenges and some of that Diddy benefited from by associating himself with them, but they didn't necessarily work outta that same way.You of course mentioned Shine, who, his career never really took off after he had that brief moment where that Bad Boy song came out. I think that was in 2000. They had sampled that, the Barrington Levee reggae song and then had him on that. But you had a few instances like that. I look back on one of my favorite songs from The Bad Boy era.let's Get It with G. Dep and Black Rob. And the sad part about that song is that you have G. Dep, the first person that was. Or essentially his lead single, he's saying that he's saying, or he did special delivery as well. G. Dep eventually ended up being locked up for a murder that he had done in the 90s, but then it had some run-ins after that Black Rob unfortunately passed away a few years ago, and I don't think was ever really able to capture that momentum after Whoa. And a few of the other songs he had with Bad Boy had come out. And then of course you had Diddy who, you know, is still thriving doing his thing.And I think that's true as well. You look at an artist like Lone who l kind of had his moment where they were trying to make lone really be a thing, especially with the, I need a girl, part one and part two, but then Loon as well, ends up getting locked up. I think there was a heroin charge or something like that.So all of these folks that were around Diddy in some way ended up having their challenges. Not all of them, but some of them.[00:47:50] Zack Greenburg: For sure. And I think, you know, probably around this time, you know, the sort of like the turn of the millennium was, you know, the moment, when did he kind of realize that he had to, he did have to start figuring out his next step. And if it wasn't gonna be him, as an artist, you know, and it wasn't gonna be somebody else on his roster, it was gonna have to be something else. And so I think this is sort of like when you think about the Bad Boy era, you know, I don't know, I think about it as sort of like early 90s to late to, you know, to really the end of the decade. And although, you know, of course it went on and it continues to stay at different, you know, sort of capacities.It's like that was sort of the prime era. And, I think once the fortunes of the label became too closely intertwined with Diddy's as a solo artist, then when he stopped being such a big deal as a solo artist, the prospects of the of Bad Boy itself were a little bit more limited.[00:48:45] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Question for you. Do you think that, well, lemme take a step back. In the Cash Money episode that we talked about not just the disputes people have had with Birdman and Slim over the years, over disputes, but also the notorious reputation that they've built up. Do you feel like the reputation with Puff is similar in that way?And if it's different, why do you think so?[00:49:09] Zack Greenburg: So you mean Puff like the Cash Money sort of similarly having trouble paying people?[00:49:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah, Yeah, and whether that reputation has stuck with Puff the same way that it's clearly stuck with Bert and Slim.[00:49:21] Zack Greenburg: I think they both have, you know, or rather the three of them, I think it does follow them around, but in different ways. I mean, I think, I think with cash money, there's some element of it that's like, well, you know, I think their response to a lot of it is this stuff began when, you know, the things weren't properly papered up and, you know, nobody really knew how these things worked and blah, blah, blah.And you know, you can sort of agree with that or not, right? Or maybe you could say it is to some extent your responsibility to make sure things are paid up, you know, once you become that successful. but, you know, I think that Puff was sort of like, you know, Bad Boy was, done through Clive through real estate.It was done through a major label, sort of from the beginning. And, you know, I think you could argue actually that that's why Cash Money was ultimately worth more, like, was like a bigger source of the Williams Brothers wealth than Bad Boy ever was, for Diddy. And he had to go, you know, do these other things. But you know, like it wasn't as though there were no lawyers involved. It wasn't as though there wasn't some big record label apparatus. There absolutely was. And you know, so I, think that excuse sort of like, doesn't fly quite as much. it's probably not leveled quite as much with him either, but, you know, but it's definitely there and, it's sort of like, it's hard to look past it in some regards.[00:50:41] Dan Runcie: Yeah. I think that one of the reasons why I think the public image of it is different is because of the businesses that the two are involved in. Bird man's a music man almost in the same way that Clive Davis is a music man. That's what we know him as even in the conversation you had shared last time where you were doing this extensive feature profile with them on Forbes and you were gonna have another follow-up conversation with him that night, and he's like, no, no.Bird Man's still in the studio. He's doing his thing like that's what he wants to do versus Puff has his interest in all these other areas, beverages, spirits, sports, entertainment, now with Revolt or Sean John, or whatever it is. So there's so many more things we know him as, or he's running the New York City marathon, he's trying to launch this thing, and all of those things can broaden your image of him.So if you hear a complaint about the one particular aspect of this business, that's one area of what he's doing, as opposed to us knowing Bird and Slim as. The owners of this record label, and now there's a dispute with the one thing that we know them for.[00:51:49] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. Okay. I see what you mean. So it's sort of like, in a way it's less central like the music is less central to his identity, therefore we hear less about the disputes because we just hear less about the music side overall.[00:52:01] Dan Runcie: Right.[00:52:02] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, and then, when you look at what happened to Bad Boy, you know, even just from a corporate perspective, it was a 2005, he sold 50% of it to Warner for 30 million bucks, something like that.So, obviously that, means, you know, by those numbers it was worth 60 million. At the time there was probably just the recorded music side and there was publishing as well, which is separate. I think you did some other publishing deals too, but you know, that number in 2005, I mean, I'm sure that's lower than.Cash money was valued at in 2005. But, you know, he just kind of made the decision to pull some money off the table, right? And I think that says some, something about his priorities too, that he wasn't that focused on the music side of things. So, you know, like, let's make this deal and then move on, to the next thing.And I think a couple years after that was when he launched Ciroc or, you know, came on with Ciroc and launched his Ciroc campaign presence, whatever you wanna call it. you know, partnership thing. So, I think ultimately for Bad Boy, you know, I think it had a peak that was as high as really, you know, any label, in hip hop did.But its fortunes became so wrapped up with Puffy that once, once he moved away from music, it's like, how are you ever really gonna come back from that?[00:53:15] Dan Runcie: Right. It really wasn't a business it was a business, but almost in the same way that a lot of people that are creators now and trying to do things, there's this ongoing discussion or debate they have about whether are you trying to build a business with a roster around you, or is this more so a soul entity?And I think Bad Boy definitely saw both of those things, but you normally seen in the flip side where you start with the lead person being known as the thing, and then they add the roster around them. But Bad Boy was kind of the opposite, where you had this roster and then it becomes the lead person becoming more known for the thing.[00:53:48] Zack Greenburg: And I think it moved away from that assembly line idea, you know, the Motown thing, the Coachella thing, whatever, you know, you're gonna, buy the tickets for, you know, who's there. It just became all about Puff and, you know, I think in a way he realized it was more lucrative that way, right? N o matter how involved he was in however many different pro projects as sort of the, the Berry Gordy, he could make more, you know, for himself being Puff. And in a way, when you look at Ciroc, it's like, you know, it's the same thing, right? Like he's selling the Art of celebration. He's selling his brand of success. He just doesn't have to sign other artists to it, you know? So I see has Ciroc Boys, you know, that's, I mean, it is almost like a record label to some extent, you know, if you like an extension of, Bad Boy. If you think about, you know, the different artists who are kind of like involved on some level, you know, over the years with that brand, it just, you don't have to get involved in like publishing and, you know, licensing and mechanical royalties and all of that fun stuff.[00:54:50] Dan Runcie: Right. And I think with that it's a good chance to talk about some of these categories we have here. So what do you think is the best signing that Bad Boy did?[00:54:59] Zack Greenburg: I think a hundred percent, you gotta go with Biggie, no doubt. I mean, you know, if you're calling the signing $500,000 to get him over from uptown, you know, plus whatever they ended up paying him. I mean, you think about the success of Life after Death and all the other albums and, you know, the albums that, were sort of in the hopper after he died.I mean, I think hard to top that.[00:55:19] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Yeah, No debates there. That was the same one. What do you think is the best business move to come from Bad Boy?[00:55:26] Zack Greenburg: I would, I would argue that, I would argue Sean John because, you know, in creating the Bad Boy image, that was, you know, really bankrolled like all those videos, obviously Bankrolled by Arista, bankrolled by, you know, the, parent company, you know, Puffy created this aura around himself, which was very fashion oriented.And then he was able to parlay that into creating, you know, an actual fashion brand that he owned, or at least, you know, partially owned and himself, which then generated hundreds of billions of dollars. And then he sold and got, you know, whatever it was, a hundred million dollars and he bought it back.but anyway, he did really well for himself. I think with the help of this shine that was kind of like given or enabled at least, by a Bad Boy.[00:56:13] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I think that's a good one. The other thing that I wanna give some love to, that we haven't talked about much yet, but was the Bad Boy Street team and how they went about promoting and pushing their records all over the major cities. A lot of people may think that Bad Boy invented to the street team.I think I still do give loud of records credit for that, but Bad Boy did take things to another level, and this goes back to Puff and his strength as a promoter. This is what Club promoters do. This is how you push and get the word out there. So he's able to replicate himself. He's able to empower the people to feel like they're part of Bad Boy himself and making sure that they're styled in the same way, to be able to help sell that same image that Puff wants to sell himself.And you saw him replicate this as well with Ciroc Boys and things like that. And shout out to Sean Perez, who worked with Puff at Bad Boy and on Ciroc on this same strategy.[00:57:07] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. Although, you know, it was a great one, and a great strategy, but it didn't always work. What's the line? I felt like Bad Boys Street team, I couldn't work. the locks.True.[00:57:19] Dan Runcie: Yeah. Usually worked. But yeah, they just needed to see the vision as they said. what's the best dark horse move? You have a good one for this.[00:57:27] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. maybe a little controversial. I don't know. I'm gonna go shine. Because if Paul hadn't signed Shine, I mean, I don't know, you know, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but, all I know is that something went down in that

The good & the ratchet of the Bet Awards along with other trending topics......https://www.internalramblespodcast.com

For this ep of my podcast Apt. 5B we're saluting the year of 1995! We're looking at our top 5 albums from '95, slept on albums, who was the dopest MC & producer, what were some of the biggest moments in hip hop in 1995 including the infamous Source Awards!@Kil889www.willmakebeatsforfood.com

Benzino opens up about his experiences as a father and reflects on the lessons he learned through his relationships with women, including his time on reality TV. We hear never before heard stories about The ‘95 Source Awards, Drake texting Benzino's daughter and get a look into some of the context around Benzino's history with Eminem. He also weighs in on his top influences in music and admits he was wrong when it came to his thoughts on Andre 3000. When it comes to authenticity - this is an episode you don't want to miss. Time Stamps: 00:00:02 - Introduction 00:02:48 - Benzino discusses creating The Source 00:05:39 - What it was like coming up in Boston 00:08:30 - What really happened between Benzino and Dave Mays 00:17:51 - Benzino talks about fatherhood 00:22:13 - Benzino reflects on being on reality tv and lessons he learned through his relationships with women 00:30:42 - Benzino and Ray talk about their experiences as parents 00:36:50 - Benzino shares his thoughts on the second generation of hip hop 00:39:18 - Benzino shares what it's like listening to his daughter's music and the team weighs in on female rappers owning their sexuality 00:50:45 - Benzino talks about his OnlyFans account 00:56:10 - Ray shares how eating chicken and cheating are the same thing 00:58:55 - Benzino shares what type of men he'd like his daughter to date and what he thinks women should look for in men 01:04:09 - Benzino shares a story about Drake texting his daughter 01:10:17 - The '95 Source Awards 01:24:16 - Benzino addresses his past with Eminem 01:33:03 - Benzino weighs in on his top influences in music 01:36:46 - Benzino plays Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is 01:46:23 - Benzino admits he was wrong when it came to Andre 3000 01:53:01 - Benzino gives his credit check 02:00:40 - GOAT or Underdog?

With more than 30 years in the music and book publishing industry author and journalist Aliya King Neil joins Panama Jackson to talk about the good ol' days when The Source, Vibe, and XXL Magazine were in their prime. She shares some behind-the-scenes stories and even pinpoints the exact moment she claims hip-hop journalism died.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Interview by Spitty https://www.instagram.com/spittywill We recently sat down with J1, Vice President of Music Programming At Pandora for an exclusive “Off The Porch” interview! During our conversation he talked about growing up in New York, falling in love with the hip-hop culture when he was very young, jumping off the porch, the impact The Source Awards show had on him, explains why he moved to Atlanta to attend Morehouse, doing internships at record labels while he was in high school, how Napster introduced him to Southern artists, reveals how he got into DJing, interning at a radio station in Atlanta that lead to him becoming an assistant program director, moving to Indianapolis to take job as program director, moving to DC to take another job, explains how streaming revitalized urban music, meeting Tuma who created the RapCaviar playlist on Spotify, explains how he got hired by Pandora, convincing them for him to be based in Atlanta, reveals the challenges of going from radio to streaming, launching the Pandora Play Back show in Atlanta, the lack of black executives in hip-hop, shares advice for upcoming executives, shares what he thinks the biggest mistakes artists make, the future of music, and much more!

Big Gipp, of the legendary group Goodie Mob , shines a light on contracts terms changing, New York influence over Hip Hop Media, 1995 Source Awards, and more. James Worthy, weighs in on their new project, "Gipp N Worthy", and also talks about, Whitney Houston's, influence on his life. Ray Daniels and Gipp, break down Eminem and his attributes that helped him excel in the industry.  Is 50 Cent More Superior to Jay-Z in the South? Find out on this episode of The GAUDS Show! #Nufacewasthere , no really Nuface was there!!

P. Frank Williams talks about his illustrious career as a journalist and his milestones as a producer for The Source Awards, Unsung, Hip Hop Homicides with 50 Cent and more! ----- NO JUMPER PATREON http://www.patreon.com/nojumper CHECK OUT OUR NEW SPOTIFY PLAYLIST https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5te... FOLLOW US ON SNAPCHAT FOR THE LATEST NEWS & UPDATES https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE!!! http://www.nojumper.com/ SUBSCRIBE for new interviews (and more) weekly: http://bit.ly/nastymondayz  Follow us on SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/4ENxb4B... iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/n... Follow us on Social Media: https://www.snapchat.com/discover/No_... http://www.twitter.com/nojumper http://www.instagram.com/nojumper https://www.facebook.com/NOJUMPEROFFI... http://www.reddit.com/r/nojumper JOIN THE DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Q3XPfBm Follow Adam22: https://www.tiktok.com/@adam22 http://www.twitter.com/adam22 http://www.instagram.com/adam22 adam22hoe on Snapchat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Relationships are at the heart of today's episode as Rick talks about his decision to leave his bags and books behind to show up for an event in Indiana focused on providing resources to its residents—a decision highlighting his commitment to community advocacy and restoration. And when working hard, there's got to be a balance of playing hard – which is his plan for his upcoming trip to Memphis, TN where he'll be hosting a party with five-division Boxing world champion Floyd “Money” Mayweather. Dave shares a story about an opportunity he gave to Mayweather early in his career at the The Source Awards hosted in Miami. As the brains and visionary behind The Source and its award show, Dave shares what made it such a special experience and the impact it had in pushing the culture of hip-hop forward. An influence we can see today across the world. Dave talks about another tv series he's been watching, Netflix's original series, Top Boy, where not only is the culture present but British artists like Kano (also starring in the series) and Roots Manuva (“Fighting For?”) embody the elements of Hip-Hop that lend themselves to their respective genres. If we take a look at everyday life depicted in Snowfall, we can also take note of how it shaped the culture of Hip-Hop as we now know it. In this week's episode, Season 2, Ep. 6 l, “The Offer,” Dave points out a theme commonly reflected within the culture, broken households and the role of the father. From Jerome's encounter with Rob's dad, Nia advocating for Franklin's attention with his dad, and more...these family dynamics are affecting their bottom line in the business. Things are no different for Gustavo and Lucia as they're also in a bind, hoping to win some favor with Franklin to get their hands on the recipe to cook up rock of their own – while also trying to keep their nose clean after catching on to the suspicious behavior of Pedro's “fiancée,” who we now know is looking to win in her own way. Tap in to this week's episode!Executive Producers: Dave Mays, Freeway Rick Ross & Brett JeffriesProducer: Tarik Ross Jr. IG: @freewayricky @therealdavemays @igobybrettj Comment & like on the Breakbeat Media YouTube page, subscribe wherever podcasts are available, and visit us at www.breakbeatmedia.com

I watch Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain Marvel and discuss Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn. Then we Watch Alex Jones make an Alex Jones of himself in court, and we close the first half out with a little Colin Cowherd "Bold: predictions top 5. Then it's Formula TV updates and the 1995 Source Awards for TV History #Live #TV #History streamelements.com/thisiskeithpaesel/tip This is Keith Paesel Airs Live on www.twitch.tv/thisiskeithpaesel Available on All podcast Platforms and youtube after that. How to Watch www.twitch.tv/thisiskeithpaesel www.youtube.com/user/keithpaesel Subscribe and never miss a thing! www.twitch.tv/thisiskeithpaesel www.youtube.com/user/keithpaesel www.tiktok.com/@thisiskeithpaesel join the Cocoon of Horror facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/cocoonofhorror Show Facebook Page www.facebook.com/keithpaeselpod Follow Keith and Adam www.twitter.com/keithpaesel www.twitter.com/insecurecomic www.instagram.com/keithpaesel www.instagram.com/adamkroshus www.facebook.com/keith.paesel.5 www.facebook.com/adam.kroshus

This week, we're looking back at some of our favorite moments from the show. Join us as we reminisce (pun intended) about what made us laugh while making these episodes. If you're new to the pod, this is a great way to sample the back catalog, and for our long time listeners take a listen to see if some of your favorite moments are here. We'll be listening to clips from the episodes where we talked about: Tevin Campbell, The 1995 Source Awards, Mary J. Blige, Missy Elliott and more!Head over to troypodcast.com to check out the full episodes, and don't forget to rate us five stars, and follow us on your podcast service of choice. Don't forget to follow us on the 'gram @TROYPodcast & the bird, @TROYPodcastfor updates and more!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sticky Fingaz, is an American hardcore rapper, record producer, actor, film director and writer, best known as a member of multi-platinum hardcore rap group Onyx. Sticky Fingaz was discovered by the late great hip hop legend Jam Master Jay of Run DMC who signed Onyx on his legendary label JMJ Records. Onyx went on to release three top selling albums before Sticky began his solo career. As a part of Onyx, Sticky Fingaz was nominated as "Rap/Hip-Hop New Artist" on American Music Awards of 1994 and won "Best Rap Album" on 1994 Soul Train Music Awards.Sticky Fingaz made his acting debut in Forest Whitaker's award-winning HBO drama Strapped. His feature film credits include Spike Lee's Clockers, Ride, In Too Deep, Lockdown, Doing Hard Time and Breaking Point, but he best known for his role "Tyrone" in Next Friday.Sticky Fingaz made his television debut in New York Undercover and Nash Bridges, but he best known for his role "Blade" in Blade (TV series). He also appeared in The Shield, Platinum (TV series) and Over There (U.S. TV series).Sticky Fingaz write, produce, direct and star in two revolutionary feature films done entirely in the genre of "hip hopera" through his production company Major Independents: "A Day In The Life" and "Caught On Tape". Both films were released by Lionsgate Home Entertainment. Major Independents has created and released in 2008 two films spotlighting multi-platinum hardcore rap group Onyx: "Onyx: 15 Years of Videos, History & Violence" and "Onyx Live Overseas: Da Illest Show On Earth 2008". Major Independents release its first documentary entitled "How To Make A Major Independent Movie" in 2015.

Jamar & Triboro relive and take a look back at the iconic 1995 Source Awards. Tune in as they give their takes on how monumental this show was. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Let us know what you think. Check out the audio version of our podcast: https://anchor.fm/joinpartychat #willsmith #partychatpodcast #oscars Follow the PartyChat Podcasters: Hey Charlie https://bit.ly/HeyCharlieTwitter AyChristene https://bit.ly/AyChristeneTwitter JazzyGuns https://bit.ly/JazzyGunsTwitter Dwayne Kyng https://bit.ly/DwayneKyngTwitter --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/joinpartychat/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/joinpartychat/support

West Coast G-Funk legend Warren G sits down with Talib Kweli and Jasmin Leigh to share stories from the recording sessions of “The Chronic,” and “Regulate,” as well as his most beloved albums.   Warren G also expresses his love for east coast hip hop, his passion for BBQ sauce, and how the 1995 Source Awards changed G-Funk forever.

So a bunch of people won awards, and Will Smith thought he was at the Source Awards and slapped Chris Rock; don't worry I have plenty to say about EVERYTHING! Check out my thoughts on the 2022 Oscars! The Reel Pineapple is your one-stop-shop for the hottest movie reviews, trailer reviews, and more! Subscribe to us on IHeartRadio, Soundcloud, Stitcher Radio, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Podbean & Spotify at The Reel Pineapple! Find us on Twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/jhunterreelpineapple Don't forget to rate us, and let us know what you think of the reviews! Like both our pages on Facebook at The Reel Pineapple & Reel Pineapple Games on Facebook. Follow Hunter on Twitter at JHunterReelPineapple Follow Scott at Nearmanthefirst Follow Colin at TheReelOneal

What if competition could be limited?  You'd have a greater chance of winning a contract!  Now, what if competition could be eliminated altogether? Well then you would have a 100% chance of winning.  This is possible and I've helped hundreds of comapnies get noncompetiive awards.In this podcast episode, learn about the following, and more -What sole source procurements areThe benefits of sole source procurements to youWho qualifies for sole source awardsWhat can be awarded sole source to youHow to get the government to award sole source contracts to youIn the podcast, I mention the need to educate customers about sole source awards, and sample brochures that are available for purchase on my website that you can use to show Government procurement personnel how to go about awarding sole source procurements to you.  Here's the links for those products. HUBZone: http://www.proposalandcertificationsamples.com/store/p80/HUBZone_Customer_Education_Brochure_-_Editable.html8(a): http://www.proposalandcertificationsamples.com/store/p82/8%28a%29_Customer_Education_Brochure_-_Editable.htmlNote: Brochures for WOSB, EDWOS}B and SDVOSB coming very soon!

In this episode we discuss; Best Comics of 2021 | The Comic Source Awards Part 1   Jace along with Rocky from the COMIC BOOM! YouTube channel give their picks for the Best Comics of 2021. From their favorite new series, ongoing titles, mini-series, graphic novels and more! There are so many great books discussed, did any of your favorites make the list? They also talk about some of their favorite covers, cliffhangers and moments in comics from 2021.

Peace!! Another one for the books & we thank DAVE MAYS for an amazing season finale! We chopped it up about his early days growing up in Washington DC, starting the Hip Hop Bible THE SOURCE from a single newsletter & making sure it was the critical voice for Hip Hop. He also cleared up some misconceptions about the infamous 1995 Source Awards. Plus his philanthropy in the community to now creating the ultimate platform BREAKBEAT MEDIA to cover the journalistic side of our culture that's sorely missing. TAP IN!!! Visuals on Podcasts on VEVO: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7odV2qUH…0uO4N4Ew0eiMTeexP Follow Us: Website: www.choppinituppodcast.com/ Host (IG): [@]baba_lp_7 Guest (IG): [@]therealdavemays Executive Producer (IG): [@]ft_mika_ Theme song by [@]dking730

On this week's episode, we tweet at celebrities, we talk altered VeggieTales lyrics, and we determine that if you aren't attracted to Wayne Brady, you might actually be gay or a racist.

Dave Mays is the founder and former CEO of The Source Magazine. In today's episode, he weighs in on the magazine's legacy, the evolution of media, and what hip-hop is all about. He then talks about Breakbeat, a new podcast network that he co-founded and heads. He also discusses the success of the podcast “Don't Call Me White Girl”, the boom of podcasts, and the projects he is working on now.If you want to get into podcasts that are all about hip-hop, this is the episode for you!Episode Highlights:[03:10] About The Source Magazine and The Source Awards[11:15] Some lessons that can be learned from The Source[14:15] What led Dave to start Breakbeat[20:55] His future plans for the podcast network and a hip-hop-based app[25:22] His transition from behind the scenes to being a voice on the network[27:08] How he met his business partner and how he measures success[34:00] Dave's observations about the podcast landscape[39:32] What Breakbeat is currently working on[45:05] The process of creating a docu-series on Larry HooverListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Dave Mays, @therealdavemays, Breakbeat Links:Mighty Networks' study on the creator economyBreakbeat Media on InstagramBreakbeat Media on TwitterBreakbeat Media on YoutubeDave Mays on InstagramTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop's biggest players by reading Trapital's free weekly memo. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Rod and Karen are joined by comedian Brian McGuinness of The Playable Characters Podcast to discuss his 200th episode, being a voice over artist, getting a PS5, old school arcade video games, new games we enjoy, Coronavirus news, political news, The Source Awards returning, White People News and sword ratchetness. Twitter: @rodimusprime @SayDatAgain @TBGWT @PlayablePodcast Instagram: @TheBlackGuyWhoTips Email: theblackguywhotips@gmail.com Blog: www.theblackguywhotips.com Voice Mail: 704-557-0186