Podcast appearances and mentions of Sylvia Robinson

Episode 177 Chapter 36, Modern Turntablism. Works Recommended from my book, Electronic and Experimental Music  Welcome to the Archive of Electronic Music. This is Thom Holmes. This podcast is produced as a companion to my book, Electronic and Experimental Music, published by Routledge. Each of these episodes corresponds to a chapter in the text and an associated list of recommended works, also called Listen in the text. They provide listening examples of vintage electronic works featured in the text. The works themselves can be enjoyed without the book and I hope that they stand as a chronological survey of important works in the history of electronic music. Be sure to tune-in to other episodes of the podcast where we explore a wide range of electronic music in many styles and genres, all drawn from my archive of vintage recordings. There is a complete playlist for this episode on the website for the podcast. Let's get started with the listening guide to Chapter 36, Modern Turntablism from my book Electronic and Experimental music.   Playlist: TURNTABLISM   Time Track Time Start Introduction –Thom Holmes 01:28 00:00 1.     Ottorino Respighi, “The Pines of Rome” (1924) recorded by The Milan Symphony Orchestra conducted by Cav. Lorenzo Molajoli in November 1928. Recorded bird sounds is heard at about 36 seconds into this section. This is a 78 RPM recording from 1928 that used a turntable to play the sounds during the performance. 01:44 01:36 2.     Paul Hindemith, “Trickaufnahmen” (1930). Recording made available by Mark Katz, author of Capturing Sound: How Technology has Changed Music (2004). 00:58 03:16 3.     John Cage, “Imaginary Landscape No. 1” (1939) from The 25-Year Retrospective Concert Of The Music Of John Cage (private, 1959). 08:37 04:12 4.     Milan Knížák, “Composition No. 1' (1979) from Broken Music. Selection and assemblage of materials made by Walter Marchetti at Harpo's Bazaar, Via San Felice 22, Bologna. 03:26 12:46 5.     Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five, “The Wheels Of Steel” (1981) from The Wheels of Steel. Medley Compiled by Sylvia Robinson; Produced by, Joey Robinson, Jr., Sylvia Robinson. 07:04 16:10 6.     Christian Marclay, “Smoker,” (1981) from the album Records. Christian Marclay, turntables and processing. Recorded on a cassette deck at home. 03:40 23:12 7.     DJ Shadow ... And The Groove Robbers, “Hindsight,” (1993) from In/Flux/ Hindsight. 06:55 26:56 8.     Afrika Bambaataa, “Looking For The Perfect Beat” (1985) from Looking For The Perfect Beat 1980-1985. 03:51 33:56 9.     Gen Ken Montgomery, “Droneskipclickloop” (excerpt, 1998) from Pondfloorsample. Using four CD players and curated sounds in the categories Drone, Skip, Click, and Loop. Mixed in real time at a performance at Experimental Intermedia Foundation (NY) on March 17, 1998. 07:19 37:48 10.   Crawling with Tarts, “Trecher Track”(1999) from Turntable Solos. By Michael Gendreau and Suzanne Dycus-Gendreau. 04:11 45:08 11.   Christian Marclay, from Record Without a Cover (excerpt, 1999). Marked with instructions, "Do not store in a protective package," my copy is a reissue of the disc first released in 1985, done by Japanese label Locus Solus. The naked record will naturally become increasingly damaged from shipping, storing, and playing the record, all becoming part of the work. In essence, the owner is implored to progressively destroy the release, allowing it to become scratched and bruised from accumulating damage that make each copy unique. My copy actually skips a lot. In the passage I am playing I often had to press the needle down a little bit to get through a skip. There is faintly recorded jazz music found on some of the disc, while other parts are pretty much composed only of surface noise. 04:31 49:18 12.   Yasunao Tone, “Part 1” (excerpt 1999) from Solo for Wounded CD. All sounds used were from scratched CD's. 03:54 53:50 13.   Philip Jeck, “Untitled 2,” (2002) from Soaked. Turntables, Philip Jeck, electronics, Jacob Kirkegaard. Recorded live at the Electronic Lounge, Moers Festival, Germany. 04:30 57:42 14.   Maria Chavez, “Jebus” (2004) from Tour Sampler, recorded in Houston, Texas. Turntables and electronics by Maria Chavez. 04:59 01:02:12 15.   Marina Rosenfeld, “Three” (2005) from Joy of Fear. Piano, turntables, dubplates, electronics, sound processing], vocals, Marina Rosenfeld. She said, “This record couldn't exist without the small collection of one-off ‘acetate records' (dub plates) that I've been making since 1997, when I first encountered Richard Simpson and his disc-cutting lathe in Los Angeles.” 05:47 01:07:12 16.   Luc Ferrari and Otomo Yoshihide, Slow Landing” (2008) from ‎Les Archives Sauvées Des Eaux. Composed by Luc Ferrari and Turntables, Electronics, prepared phono cartridges by Otomo Yoshihide. 10:40 01:12:58   Additional opening, closing, and other incidental music by Thom Holmes. My Books/eBooks: Electronic and Experimental Music, sixth edition, Routledge 2020. Also, Sound Art: Concepts and Practices, first edition, Routledge 2022. See my companion blog that I write for the Bob Moog Foundation. For a transcript, please see my blog, Noise and Notations. Original music by Thom Holmes can be found on iTunes and Bandcamp.  

Cette semaine dans Hoop Culture, on vous emmène à Detroit avec un invité très spécial : Real Muzul ! Auteur, chroniqueur, journaliste, ce passionné de musique nous présente son nouveau livre : "Sylvia Robinson - Godmother of Hip Hop".On revient également avec lui sur son précédent livre consacré à George Clinton ainsi que sur l'émission Get Busy qu'il coanime avec SEAR.Parce que la culture basket ne s'arrête pas aux lignes du terrain, retrouvez chaque semaine Pierre-Armand Samama et Théophile Haumesser pour parler de tout ce qui fait vibrer le monde du basket en dehors du parquet.Commandez le Mook REVERSE #16 spécial MIAMI https://www.basketsession.com/produit/mook-reverse-16-miami/Commandez le livre GOATs - Le meilleur (et le pire) de la NBA en 130 Tops https://www.basketsession.com/produit/goats-le-meilleur-et-le-pire-de-la-nba-en-130-tops/Commandez le livre Une saison en enfer https://www.basketsession.com/produit/une-saison-en-enfer/Nos émissions sur YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@BasketSessionREVERSEHangtime Radio Show : https://linksta.cc/@HangtimeSuivez Muzul : https://www.instagram.com/realmuzul/Real Muzul "Sylvia Robinson - Godmother of Hip Hop" https://lemot-2boajzb46a-ew.a.run.app/musiques/sylviarobinson/ Get Busy : https://www.youtube.com/@getbusymagazine/videosDa Cockroach : https://dacockroach.bandcamp.com/merchBudos Band "Overlander" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzEiUxdDj0oK-Solo "I Can't Hold It Back" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGOMVuQdjz8Silas Short "ILIKEU" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeAAdDYUeQkUpton Sinclair "La Jungle" https://www.livredepoche.com/livre/la-jungle-9782253129394/The Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIQuE7JGXU8Tall Black Guy https://tallblackguy.bandcamp.com/Toute l'actualité de la NBA et du basket 7 jours sur 7 ➡️ https://www.basketsession.com/Suivez-nous sur Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/hoopcult/ BlueSky ► https://bsky.app/profile/hoopcult.bsky.social Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

Salt-N-Pepa, Usher, Prince, Diana Ross, Teena Marie, Chaka Khan, An industry veteran who currently serves as one of the directors for the Hip Hop Museum, Green outlines his career spanning five decades. This includes producing concerts and/or representing as a longtime agent for artists such as Usher, Prince, Diana Ross, Teena Marie, Chaka Khan, the Backstreet Boys - among othersThen there's the fine line between the grind in the streets and the hustle in the industry.  Mark battled with con artists, drug dealers and pimps and people trying to show off their local high profile at the expense of his artists. “I didn't get too caught up in that because I had to keep one eye on the money!” He stayed focused, even when distractions of every kind showed up on the road–drugs, groupies, out-of-control artists–and he kept many ships afloat when everything should have drowned.  But again, the show must go on. Mark's stellar reputation put him in high demand and working with Melba and soon Freddie Jackson, Dru Hill, Al B Sure, Grandmaster Flash, a young Usher and music pioneer Prince solidified his reputation in the industry. He would join Associated Booking Corp, where his talent for spotting rising stars and his love for hip-hop led to the signing of such game-changing artists as Salt-N-Pepa, Roxanne Shante, Kid & Play, and DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince.  He would go on to become Director of Marketing at EMI/Capitol Records and expanded again, this time into radio, promotions, and into the fields of jazz and rap, earning accolades in promotions and even producing, writing, and publishing successful tracks like "Remember the First Time" for singer Eric Gable and "Midnight Hour" for rapper Lady Spice MC.  Green moved as the industry moved and found himself in independent marketing and promotions consulting and secured a record deal with Light Year/Warner Brothers for his independent label, with singer/songwriter and R&B legend Teena Marie as his first artist. A year later, working with  Northstar Distribution, Green became General Manager, distributing music for Prince's independent label, where the purple one signed R&B music siren Chaka Khan and the soul-stirrer and crooner Larry Graham  on the artist's NPG Records. Soon, shaping his own destiny, Green launched Celebrity Talent Agency, representing a wide array of artists, where he's secured talents for tours, festivals and commercials nationally and globally.  Ever-expanding his vision, Green also serves as Associate Director/General Manager of Lehman Performing Arts Center, Chairman of Artist Relations for The Hip-Hop Museum (THHM), and maintains ownership of Celebrity Talent Agency.  The Show Must Go On! His riveting story of the industry's ups and downs and his own personal experiences will inspire anybody who believes in themselves to believe that they can live their wildest dreams!© 2025 Building Abundant Success!!2025 All Rights ReservedHeart Media @ https://tinyurl.com/iHeartBASAmazon ~ https://tinyurl.com/AmzBASAudacy:  https://tinyurl.com/BASAud

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Aquest episodi especial de Crema d'Estrelles està dedicat íntegrament a la secció "2 Graus de Separació", amb dues excepcions: un petit homenatge a Angie Stone, que es podria considerar la secció "Absències", i "Una de Frank Zappa", que avui encaixa perfectament amb la temàtica del programa. Explorarem la immensa influència de Good Times de Chic en la història de la música, teixint connexions entre estils i dècades a través de més de vint cançons. Des del rock fins als orígens del hip-hop, descobrirem com aquest clàssic té vinculacions curioses i ha deixat empremta en la trajectòria de molts artistes. Ens acompanyaran noms com Mickey & Sylvia, The Sequence, Queen, Blondie, Kool and The Gang, Jamiroquai, Grandmaster Flash, Kool Herc, Sugarhill Gang, Fatback Band, Perucho Conde, Shirley and Company, i molts més. També remarcarem la contribució de figures essencials com Angie Stone i destacarem el paper clau de dues dones sovint oblidades en els inicis del hip-hop: Cindy Campbell i Sylvia Robinson. A més, ens submergirem en el fenomen dels "mixes", escoltant el primer disc de mescles publicat de la història. I per tancar aquest viatge sonor, Frank Zappa ens oferirà la seva visió única i irreverent. Un episodi imprescindible per entendre com una sola cançó pot transformar la història de la música! Jordi Via, Terrassa, 26 de març de 2025 Pòdcasts amics: Via Miranda: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/2494621 The Sound Of Music: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/1788620 Sinfonautas: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/1317188 Marcianos Que Nos Tocan Las Guitarras: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/707397 Subterranea: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/17710 Entremixtando: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/1247719 La Capsa De Ritmes: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/1363038 Nostalgia: https://go.ivoox.com/sq/2574733

Guitariste, compositrice et surtout patronne afro-américaine de maison de disques. De ses débuts dans les années 50 à la sortie du premier disque de rap en 1979, elle aura été de tous les bons et mauvais coups. Un livre, signé Real Muzul et paru chez lʹéditeur Le Mot et le Reste lui rend hommage. Thierry Sartoretti se plonge dans " Sylvia Robinson, godmother of hip-hop ".

In this episode, Stauney and Sadie tune into untold stories of the women who helped build Hip Hop from the ground up. While the genre is often defined by its male icons, it was women like Cindy Campbell—who threw the legendary party that birthed Hip Hop—and Sylvia Robinson—who brought it to the mainstream—that made it all possible. We dive into the origins of the genre, from basement parties to block-wide movements, and spotlight 12 trailblazing women who shaped the genre: Sha-Rock, The Mercedes Ladies, Roxanne Shanté, Salt-N-Pepa, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, Lauryn Hill, Lil' Kim, Foxy Brown, and Missy Elliott. From pioneering MCs to groundbreaking producers, these women didn't just break into the scene—they rewrote the rules, using Hip Hop as a platform for empowerment, activism, and cultural change. Join us as we explore the often-overlooked queens of Hip Hop and their lasting impact on music, feminism, and culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Against all odds, Sylvia Robinson transformed her setbacks into the world's first hip-hop record and ignited a global movement. Without her, hip-hop may not be what it is today. Here's how she laid the foundation for hip-hop to go worldwide. _____________ 2-Minute Black History is produced by PushBlack, the nation's largest non-profit Black media company. PushBlack exists to amplify the stories of Black history you didn't learn in school. You make PushBlack happen with your contributions at BlackHistoryYear.com — most people donate $10 a month, but every dollar makes a difference. If this episode moved you, share it with your people! Thanks for supporting the work. The production team for this podcast includes Cydney Smith, Len Webb, and Lilly Workneh. Our editors are Lance John and Avery Phillips from Gifted Sounds Network. Julian Walker serves as executive producer." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

First up this week is an extraordinary 1992 interview with Lindsey Buckingham.  Lindsey recently turned 75 and is still creating music, but it's so interesting to hear him more than 30 years ago. Although the interview was ostensibly to promote his solo work, Lindsey talks a lot about Fleetwood Mac – from the early days all the way through to Tango In The Night.  And we even have a bonus clip of Stevie Nicks talking about her frustration with Lindsey when he spent two years working on the Tusk album.             We also have the incredible story of the making of a hit.  In this case, the hit is “Beth” by KISS – The story is incredible because the star is an eleven year old girl – and even though she's a little older now, her tale of how she helped make Beth a hit is very entertaining.             Plus, we talk about one of the most influential women in music.  She not only had a couple of hits herself, she's also responsible for three of the most important and influential hip hop singles ever made.  Her name is Sylvia Robinson, and we'll hear a classic clip from her and we'll discuss her legacy!             And finally, we close out the show with an interview with Eric Carmen, who passed away in May of this year.  Eric was the lead singer of the Raspberries and then had a very successful solo career.  Eric was very strongly opinionated – and you can hear his drive and determination in the clips that we found.    Famous Lost Words, hosted by Christopher Ward and Tom Jokic, is heard in more than 100 countries worldwide and on radio stations across Canada, including Newstalk 1010 Toronto, CJAD 800 Montreal, 580 CFRA Ottawa, AM 800 CKLW Windsor, 610 CKTB St Catharines, CFAX Victoria, AM1150 Kelowna and 91x in Belleville.  It is in the Top 20% of worldwide podcasts based on the number of listeners in the first week.  

À 17h00, retrouvez « Le 17h00 d'Hélène Maquet ». "Pas grand-chose sur à peu près tout" de Bernard Dobbeleer : À l'occasion des 45 ans de la sortie de "Rapper's Delight" de The Sugarhill Gang, il sera question de Sylvia Robinson, celle qui a propulsé le rap dans une ère industrielle et commerciale. Le coup de coeur de Gorian Delpâture : "Long Island" de Colm Tóibín (Grasset). Tout bascule lorsqu'un inconnu à l'accent irlandais frappe à la porte d'Eilis Lacey. Après vingt ans de mariage, Tony et elle profitent du confort offert par les années 1970 aux familles américaines. Installés à Long Island, ils ont deux enfants, bientôt adultes, et mènent une vie tranquille où les seuls tracas proviennent de l'oppressante belle-famille italienne d'Eilis. Mais en apprenant au seuil de sa maison que Tony l'a trompée et qu'une autre femme attend un enfant de lui, ce bonheur patiemment construit vole en éclats. Sans promesse de retour, elle part en Irlande, à Enniscorthy. Rien n'a changé dans sa ville natale, ce monde clos où, de générations en générations, tout se sait sur tout le monde. Alors qu'il a repris le pub familial, même Jim Farrell est resté tel qu'il était vingt ans plus tôt, pendant l'été qu'Eilis et lui avaient passé ensemble, bien qu'elle fût déjà secrètement fiancée à Tony. La blessure du départ d'Eilis est toujours vive mais son retour ravive cet amour de jeunesse – et l'Amérique s'éloigne plus que jamais… À partir de 16h00, Jérôme Colin et ses chroniqueurs vous offrent toute l'actualité culturelle : cinéma, musique, littérature, théâtre… Toujours avec une touche d'humour. Après Bagarre dans la Discothèque, le jeu musical décalé, Jérôme reçoit un grand invité et, dans la dernière demi-heure, avec Hélène Maquet, Julie Morelle et les chroniqueurs, ils vous emmènent dans la bonne humeur vers la nouvelle émission d'info de fin de journée. 1h30 de plaisir intelligent. Merci pour votre écoute Entrez sans Frapper c'est également en direct tous les jours de la semaine de 16h30 à 18h sur www.rtbf.be/lapremiere Retrouvez tous les épisodes de Entrez sans Frapper sur notre plateforme Auvio.be : https://auvio.rtbf.be/emission/8521 Et si vous avez apprécié ce podcast, n'hésitez pas à nous donner des étoiles ou des commentaires, cela nous aide à le faire connaître plus largement.

Against all odds, Sylvia Robinson transformed her setbacks into the world's first hip-hop record and ignited a global movement. Without her, hip-hop may not be what it is today. Here's how she laid the foundation for hip-hop to go worldwide. _____________ 2-Minute Black History is produced by PushBlack, the nation's largest non-profit Black media company. PushBlack exists to amplify the stories of Black history you didn't learn in school. You make PushBlack happen with your contributions at BlackHistoryYear.com — most people donate $10 a month, but every dollar makes a difference. If this episode moved you, share it with your people! Thanks for supporting the work. The production team for this podcast includes Cydney Smith, Len Webb, and Lilly Workneh. Our editors are Lance John and Avery Phillips from Gifted Sounds Network. Julian Walker serves as executive producer." To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Some think it's holding on that makes one strong; sometimes it's letting go. - Sylvia Robinson Check out John Lee Dumas' award winning Podcast Entrepreneurs on Fire on your favorite podcast directory. For world class free courses and resources to help you on your Entrepreneurial journey visit EOFire.com

Fashion Designer Sylvia Robinson Joins This episode of MinorityPlus1 Podcast to share the gritty realness of forging a path in the fashion world! Though Brittany's chair is empty this week, our banter fills the room with a promise of her spicy commentary upon her return.   Special guest Sylvia Robinson shares what made her fall in love with fashion. Her creative process & What the future of fashion is looking like with the possible AI influence.  We don't just stop at chuckles—prepare for an unflinching look at the dark corners of inappropriate teacher-student relationships, where we underscore the critical need for boundaries and professional integrity within our education system.From the perseverance of a fashion show producer amid personal tribulations to the uproarious anecdotes about sexual etiquette, this episode is a mosaic of human experience. We even take a moment to muse on the transformative power of Muay Thai and the motivational push we sometimes seek from friends or partners. Tune in for an eclectic blend of hearty laughter, soul-stirring confessions, and thought-provoking dialogues that mirror the myriad hues of life's tapestry.

Auch in diesem Jahr sprechen wir zum Internationalen Frauentag über Frauen aus der Popgeschichte, die bislang viel zu wenig Beachtung bekommen haben. Mit dieser Spezialfolge wollen wir das ändern. Zu Gast bei Katharina Heinius ist die ehemalige Lucilectric-Sängerin Luci van Org. Nachdem es im letzten Spezial zum Internationalen Frauentag einen Rundumschlag gab zu Frauen, die in den Geschichtsbüchern zu kurz gekommen sind, wie Blueserfinderin Ma Rainey, Rock'n'Roll-Erfinderin Rosetta Tharpe oder Sylvia Robinson, die den ersten kommerziell erfolgreichen Hip-Hop-Song überhaupt produziert hat ("Rapper's Delight" von der Sugarhill Gang) geht es dieses Mal um die Pionierinnen der elektronischen Musik. Auch in diesem Jahr ist Musikerin, Produzentin, Songwriterin, Autorin und Schauspielerin Luci van Org wieder mit dabei und spricht mit SWR1 Musikredakteurin Katharina Heinius über großartige Frauen der Musikgeschichte. Für Luci van Org gibt es einen ganz besonderen Punkt, der sie an elektronischer Musik fasziniert: "Die Möglichkeit, autark ganze Musikstücke zu kreieren. Das ist gerade für Frauen ganz wichtig gewesen, weil [...] es gab immer Männer, die versucht haben, dir zu sagen, was du zu tun und zu lassen hast und wie du es zu machen hast. Und an so einem Rechner kannst du einfach sitzen und selbst bestimmen, wie etwas klingt [...]." Das ermächtigt die Musikerinnen und auch Musiker natürlich dazu unabhängiger von anderen zu werden. Wer möchte, kann durch diese Technik alle Rollen, die es beim Musikmachen auszuführen gibt, selber ausführen. Egal, ob Komponistin, Produzentin und auch ausführende Künstlerin. Die Anfänge der elektronischen Musik beginnen weitaus früher, als man vielleicht denkt, nämlich schon in den 1920er Jahren mit dem Theremin. Wie dieses obskure Instrument gespielt wird, das erklärt Musikerin Luci van Org, die selbst stolze Theremin-Besitzerin ist, im Meilensteine Podcast. Über das Theremin meint sie "Menschen, die Theremin spielen, wirken immer ein bisschen wie in einer Séance. Die halten die Hände in der Luft und machen seltsame Gesten." Und die erste große Theremin-Virtuosin war, die eigentlich als Violinistin ausgebildete Konzertgeigerin, Clara Rockmore. Die hat eine ganz besondere Technik erfunden, um das Instrument zu beherrschen. Dr. Who ist eine der bekanntesten Fernsehserien aller Zeiten und auch eine der Serien, die es schon am längsten gibt. 1963 startete die Serie und auch heute werden noch neue Folgen produziert. Und im Intro der Science-Fiction-Serie gab es schon 1963 elektronische Musik, gespielt von der Mathematikerin Delia Derbyshire auf Synthesizern. Bis zur "Dr. Who"-Serie war elektronische Musik ganz und gar nicht "in aller Munde", wie man so schön sagt, sondern es wurde immer eher verächtlich darauf geschaut, da elektronische Musik "kein Herz und keine Seele" habe. Heute wird ganz anders auf elektronische Musik geblickt und für diesen Wandel ist auch Delia Derbyshire und ihre Titelmelodie zu "Dr. Who" verantwortlich. Auch deshalb zählt sie für das Musikmagazin "Musikexpress" zu den "100 wichtigsten Frauen im Pop". Eine der ersten elektronischen Kompositionen aus einem Computer kommen von der US-Amerikanerin Laurie Spiegel. Mit Lochkarten, Klaviatur, Joystick und Tasten komponierte sie 1974 ihren Song "Appalachian Grove 1", mit dem sie die Melodien in die vorher avantgardistische, elektronische Musik brachte und dadurch auch mehr Gefühl. Während wir elektronische Musik (theoretisch) heute mit dem Laptop gemütlich von der Couch aus machen können, war der Computer, mit dem Laurie Spiegel Musik gemacht hat, so groß wie ein Wohnzimmer, unglaublich teuer und stand in einer Forschungseinrichtung. Laurie Spiegel komponierte aber nicht nur Musik auf dem Computer, sondern sie hat mit "Music Mouse" auch eines der ersten Computerprogramme zum Musik machen programmiert. __________ Shownotes SWR1 Meilensteine Folge zu "Sports" von Huey Lewis and The News: https://www.ardaudiothek.de/episode/swr1-meilensteine/huey-lewis-and-the-news-sports/swr1/94770170/ Spezialfolge zum Internationalen Frauentag 2023: https://www.ardaudiothek.de/episode/swr1-meilensteine/spezialfolge-zum-internationalen-frauentag-2023/swr1/12436977/ SWR1 Leute mit Luci van Org: https://www.ardaudiothek.de/episode/swr1-leute/mehr-starke-frauen-in-einer-maennerdominierten-welt/swr1/13104787/ Clara Rockmore spielt das Theremin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=pSzTPGlNa5U ARTE-Doku über "verkannte Heldinnen der elektronischen Musik: https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/104017-000-A/sisters-with-transistors-die-verkannten-heldinnen-der-elektronischen-musik/ Demo von Music Mouse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-mmEvGOopk SWR Artikel zu Luci van Org: https://www.swr.de/swr1/swr1leute/luci-van-org-lucilectric-cross-media-kunstlerin-100.html Künstlerseite zum Projekt "Luciana Soteira" von Luci van Org: https://www.laetitium.de/artists/lucina-soteira/ __________ Über diese Songs wird im Podcast gesprochen (08:04) – “The Swan” von Clara Rockmore (17:45) – “Dr. Who Titelmelodie” von Delia Derbyshire (33:02) – “Appalachian Grove 1” von Laurie Spiegel (40:40) – “Three Sonic Spaces” von Laurie Spiegel (41:32) – “Offen” von Meystersinger (43:18) – “Tempel” von Lucina Soteira __________ Ihr wollt mehr Podcasts wie diesen? Abonniert die SWR1 Meilensteine! Fragen, Kritik, Anregungen? Meldet euch gerne per WhatsApp-Sprachnachricht an die (06131) 92 93 94 95 oder schreibt uns an meilensteine@swr.de

Like any other art form, rap music or hip-hop has a defined, ever-evolving legacy. There are names etched in the walls of the greats industry founders ranging from Curtis Blow to Grandmaster Flash, LL Cool J to Run DMC, the Beastie Boys, Will Smith, Doug E. Fresh, the Fat Boys and Queen Latifah. As the genre evolved, rap developed more of an edge, telling painful stories of street life from performers like N.W.A., Ice-T, Public Enemy, Tupac Shakur, and the Notorious B.I.G. Rappers Jay Z, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg took rap to new heights of popularity, giving hip-hop a seat at the mainstream table. And others like Lauryn Hill,  50 Cent, Kendrick Lamar, Lil' Wayne, Eminem, Travis Scott, Nicki Minaj, Drake, DMX, J. Cole and others have kept rap going strong and made it a viable and highly profitable music style. But rap is incomplete without the group that coined the phrase “hip-hop” in their groundbreaking anthem “Rapper's Delight”—the Sugarhill Gang.  Indeed, any conversation about rap—which in 2023, celebrated 50 years as an art form—is incomplete without the Sugarhill Gang. Formed in 1979, it started outside an Englewood, New Jersey, pizza shop when singer and music executive Sylvia Robinson asked Henry “Big Bank Hank” Jackson—who would croon as he made pizza inside—to sing for she and her husband Joe in their car parked outside. Jackson was ultimately joined by Guy "Master Gee" O'Brien and the two of them went to the Robinson home along with Michael "Wonder Mike" Wright. The three young me thought they were auditioning against one another, but in the end, were assembled into a music act that would go on to become one of the first rap groups ever—the Sugarhill Gang—holding a legendary place in popular music history.  We sit down with the Sugarhill Gang including Master Gee, Wonder Mike, Hendogg and DJ T-Dynasty for the latest episode of the Load Out Music Podcast. 

Episode Notes This month Let's Grab Coffee features conversation with Dominic Lawson, host and creator of the award-winning Black Is America podcast. On today's show, Dominic and I talk about Black Is America and the importance of storytelling. We also listen to the Black Is America episode about Sylvia Robinson: The Godmother of Hip Hop.   The Black Is America podcast highlights little-known African-American figures and stories. This award-winning podcast helps tell the story of America through the lens of the African American experience. For more about Black Is America, visit blackisamericapodcast.com

Sugar Hill Gang or Band? This group's seminal single set the tone for our understanding of hip hop culture in the mainstream, but it sacrificed the culture's wholeness along the way… We're continuing our conversation pondering the performance of masculinity in music as an art form and in music as a business.Masculinity Scholar and Accountability Strategist Nalo Zidan joins the pod this week to talk masculinity and capitalism within hip hop and shares indispensable wisdom on what liberation may look like…Samantha offers a snapshot of the beginnings of commercial hip hop. How did we get from that DJ Kool Herc party that started it all to “Rapper's Delight”?We examine how the performance of masculinity thrives in commercial hip hop and why capitalism benefits from music upholding bravado over vulnerability.Thankfully, there are some artists disrupting the performance of masculinity, but why are they on the fringe of the mainstream?Listen to Nalo dive deep into how our classist system, capitalism, and the performance of masculinity helps hip hop moguls evade accountability. Acknowledging the impact of patriarchy connects us to the need for social justice.Nalo stresses how divesting from capitalism allows us to regain our imagination and think of a life beyond patriarchy…and how it's an individual choice we must consistently make. Listen to find out the most antipatriarchal, anticapitalist response you can have in the face of the status quo. Referenced on this episode:Mother of Rap: The Success & Controversy of Hip Hop's Sylvia Robinson, producer of the first commercially released hip hop track, “Rapper's Delight”Saba: ‘RAP CAN GET CLASSIST – I WANT TO BE THE OPPOSITE'Noname: Tiny Desk Concert featuring Ghetto SageThe Sound of Capitalism COMPANION PIECES:MASKulinity is Making Some People a Lot of MoneyNalo Zidan's TEDxLSU talk It's Time to Redefine MasculinityThe Roots of Jay-Z's ‘Black Capitalism'Black Capitalism Won't Save Us

  Co-Moderators: Drs. Diana Cejas and Allison Kessler Interviewee: Dr. Amy Rule, Dr. Sylvia Robinson, Dr. Paige Church, Dr. Jennifer Arnold, Dr. Ashina Singh  This panel was live on December 5th 2023.  In Episode 81, we bring the “Women with Disabilities in Medicine: Illuminating the Pathway” panel to our podcast audience. While the literature suggests a sharp (115%) increase in students with disabilities entering medical education, the growth in the population of practicing physicians (2%) has not kept pace. One reason may be the lack of mentorship. Mentorship is a key part of a successful transition to a career in medicine, especially for women. Practicing physicians share their insight into navigating the training-to-work pathway, thriving as a doctor with disability, and balancing the multiple demands that often disproportionately impact women. Transcript Produced by: Lisa Meeks  Audio editor: Jacob Feeman Digital Media: Katie Sullivan Keywords: disability, doctors with disabilities, accessibility, med ed, women in medicine, disability identity, ableism, internalized ableism, accommodations, physician, pediatrics, the match, residency, medical education.  DWDI Podcast Website: https://www.docswithdisabilities.org/podcast  Sponsors  Michigan Medicine Center for Disability Health and Wellness Stanford Medicine Alliance for Disability Inclusion and Equity Association of Medical Professionals with Hearing Loss (AMPHL) Michigan Medicine Department of Family Medicine Disability Program Johns Hopkins Disability Health Research Center APHA Disability Section  

That 7 Life / Happy 7th Birthday, Eden!!! (Tribute to Speed Drive by Charli XCX) *Original written by: Charlotte Aitchison, David James Parker, EASYFUN, Ewart Everton Brown, Fabian Peter Torsson, Joakim Frans Ahlund, Klas Ålund, Michael Chapman, Nicky Chinn, Patrik Knut Arve, Sylvia Robinson, & Troy Rami **Happy 7th Birthday, Eden; no song could ever capture your coolness, so please accept this bouquet of clumsy words as a 7th Birthday gift representing my love for You, Angel Pro & Lightning Bug❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣❣ Lyrics: Yo yo Yo yo For my Eden She'll always be my Girl Turning 7 is cool, but to her, in life, that's not all Trampoline energy Skyscraper high jumping she goes She's playing her Pink Gun in Roblox She's already a pro Record breaking, training noobs with her skills Way to go!!! Every day she's enthusiastic About changing her avatar's clothes To me, she's royalty World's greatest niece for sure Her, I adore Say, hey, Eden: Her love is kind It's so kind Without it, I couldn't survive When I oof, she grabs my screen from me Virtually fixes me until I'm upright Eating Mac & cheese Playing Brookhaven to Adopt Me Artistically, colors beautifully Happy Birthday Make a wish Remember this time in life Say, hey, Eden: Her love is kind It's so kind Without it, I couldn't survive When I oof, she grabs my screen from me Virtually fixes me until I'm upright She's eating Mac & cheese Playing Breaking Point 2 to Adopt Me Artistically, colors beautifully Happy Birthday Make a wish Remember this stage in life 7 life ~ 7 life, 7 life, 7 life, 7 life Oh she glows My clever lightning bug Always shines bright For miles, she's shooting sparks of energy off like a live wire She is who I want to become more like Big sister zealous Her name's garden is where man met the divine Adore her lovely locks of pretty long hair Her beauty is intrinsic To no other, could it be compared Still years she has, up, to grow Knowledge to gleen, seeds to be sown But already loves to share Say, hey, Eden: Her love is kind It's so kind Without it, I couldn't survive When I oof, she grabs my screen from me Virtually fixes me until I'm upright Eating Mac & cheese Playing Brookhaven to Adopt Me Artistically, colors beautifully So Happy Birthday Make a wish And remember this time in life Say, hey, Eden: Her love is kind It's so kind Without it, I couldn't survive When I oof, she grabs my screen from me Virtually fixes me until I'm upright Eating Mac & cheese Playing MM2 to Adopt Me Artistically, colors beautifully Happy Birthday Make a wish Remember this part of life 7 life ~ 7 life, 7 life, 7 life, 7 life That 7 life ~ 7 life, 7 life, 7 life, 7 life That 7 life, 7 life, 7 life, 7 life, bam :D End Tribute by Melissa Smith: - Melzy of Wonderland on Youtube - Mel's Music on Spreaker, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, JioSaavn, Castbox, Deezer, Podcast Addict, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Podchaser, Facebook & - Melissa_Martinek_Smith on Instagram (AKA: MelsMusic)

On this week's show, we... celebrate 50 years of hip-hop with a fistful of our fave old-school cuts  spend quality time with the first record in 38 years from Rain Parade and the solo debut from Best Coast's Bethany Cosentino  spin fresh tracks from Black Pumas, Low Cut Connie & Rhiannon Giddens   All this & much, much less! Debts No Honest Man Can Pay started in 2003 at WHFR-FM (Dearborn, MI), moved to WGWG-FM (Boiling Springs, NC) in 2006 & Plaza Midwood Community Radio (Charlotte, NC) in 2012, with a brief pit-stop at WLFM-FM (Appleton, WI) in 2004.ys

August 11, 2023 is the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. What started out mostly as a spoken word artform has become a worldwide juggernaut. Thanks to the moguls who pushed the genre forward, hip-hop went from 0 to 100.In this episode, we rank the 50 greatest moguls in hip-hop's history. We reached out to industry experts — from artists to execs to media personalities — to help us compile the list. Friend of the pod, Zack O'Malley Greenburg, joins me to count them down from No. 50 to No. 10:39 How do we define “mogul”7:06 Honorable mentions09:10 The “Don't overlook their influence” group (ranks 50-41)16:19 The “Playing chess not checkers” group (ranks 40-31)23:38 The “Our impact runs deep” group (ranks 30-21)33:47 No. 2035:37 No. 1937:56 No. 1841:32 No. 1744:27 No. 1647:21 No. 1551:22 No. 14 55:55 No. 1359:09 No. 121:00:46 No. 111:02:16 No. 101:04:39 No. 91:06:44 No. 81:10:20 No. 71:14:06 No. 61:15:37 No. 51:17:11 No. 41:20:53 No. 31:29:06 No. 21:30:34 No. 11:33:22 Who got snubbed?1:35:42 What trends stick out from the list?1:41:21 Who would you pick to run your empire?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: ownership. Was just such an important thing for Nipsey. Such an important thing for Berner. And, you know, interviewing the two of them, I would say, their mindset around ownership was the closest I've ever seen to Jay Z.[00:00:13] Dan Runcie Intro Audio: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:39] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: This episode is a celebration to hip hop's 50th anniversary. This is a countdown on the 50 greatest moguls ever in hip hop. I'm joined by Zack O'Malley Greenburg, friend of the pod, and we both reached out to. A bunch of label heads, executives, people in hip hop that would know best. And we put it together in an aggregate list.And we're here to break down that list today. We talk about what does it mean to be a mogul? What are some of the considerations we made when we were looking into this list ourselves, how the results looked, what surprised us? What were the snubs? What were the misses? And what can we learn from this overall?And if Zack and I were putting together our dream teams, what would that look like? This is a lot of fun. Really happy with how it turned out. So let's dive in.[00:01:25] Dan Runcie: All right, hip hop's 50th anniversary is right around the corner and we decided to celebrate it in the only way that we know best countdown hip hop's greatest moguls and I'm joined by Zack O'malley Greenburg, who reached out to me about this. I was really excited about it and we spent some time over the past couple of weeks, reaching out to people we know, making sure that we have the best insights looking through and making sure that we had all of the. Breakdowns to share. So Zack, I'm ready for this. How are you feeling?[00:01:55] Zack Greenburg: I am stoked. Yeah, I mean, you know, 50th anniversary of hip hop. We reached out to 50 different judges. amongst, you know, the sort of, the most respected folks from, you know, label heads to artists to entrepreneurs, you know, I think we've got half of them, roughly half of them replied since in their votes, we're going to keep their individual votes anonymous, but, you know, Dan could tell you about some of the judges.Yeah, and it was just really fun to kind of mix it up, you know, I think the thing about this list, a lot of these characters are just kind of an apples to oranges comparison as you'll see once we dive into it, but that's the beauty of it, right? I mean, how do you, you know, compare like a pioneering executive to like a modern day artist mogul? And we really kind of left it in the hands of the judges. And we just said, basically the only guidance was, this is a business focused list, but you know, you can rank artists, executives, people who are both. It just, whatever your definition of mogul is, that's how, you know, that's how you should rank them. And people submitted lists and obviously the higher they rank somebody, the more points we gave them and, you know, the lower they got, but, you know, so there's some people on there who are like accumulators. They ended up on everybody's list, but not so high, but, you know, as a result, they ended up on the top 50.And then there are some who were just like, not ranked at all by most people, but had a couple of really high ranks so that they made the list. So I think it's a pretty cool mix.[00:03:10] Dan Runcie: Right? It's kind of like how we look at artists. There's some artists that have just been consistent, steady through and through each year. You'll always get some reliable output from them, but then there are other artists too. They were the best for a certain amount of time. Maybe they cooled off for a bit.Maybe they came back and that's kind of the way music is too. One of the things that. I was asked whenever I was reaching out to people about this was the same thing that you posed earlier. People wanted to know, how are we defining mogul and we left it up to their interpretation. It is a term that means different things to different people, but maybe for the sake of this conversation, let's kick it off here.Zack, how do you define mogul? And how did you define it when creating your list?[00:03:51] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, to me a hip hop mogul, more general is just, you know, somebody who not only is a business person, but has some degree of ownership, in whatever it is that they're doing. that's not the only definition of it for me, but like, you know, when I was putting together my rankings, I thought, you know, who are the owners?the same time, you know, people who are executives who are in a decision making place. you know, that counts for something. And I think also, you know, if you're an artist, and you simply have some control over your own work, you maintain your copyrights, whatever, like that counts as being a mogul. So, you know, specifically when it comes to hip hop, you know, I'd say people who are, you know, definitely getting in charge of your own work, but also creating new lines of business, you know, influencing the culture. but you know, a way that they've got some skin in the game from a business perspective, you know, that, kind of thing.That's kind of how I looked at it. but you could see from the votes that, you know, everybody had a slightly different definition too.[00:04:47] Dan Runcie: Yeah, there was definitely a lot of correlation with the artists who tend to be the ones that are the wealthiest. They end up at the highest rankings in on some of those lists, too, but it wasn't exactly correlated because there's a difference. And these are some of the things I kept in mind, too, with the mogul definition, thinking specifically aboutinfluence and impact, were you having, or did you create opportunities for others around you? Were you able to be a bit of a kingmaker or queenmaker in your respective right? Was there a impact in terms of other generations that either looked and modeled how they're doing what they're doing and looking at you as some form of inspiration with that?So there's the indirect impact and influence, but also the, Indirect piece of it too. So there's the money piece as well, but then what do you do with that money? And then that's how I had went about it. And similarly, everyone had their own unique spin to it.[00:05:42] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, and I think the definition changed over time, of what a mogul really is, but when I was putting my rankings together, I think the idea of starting something new, you know, that's also paramount, amongst all the criteria as well.[00:05:55] Dan Runcie: Right? So, of course, Zack and I had our list, but we reached out to a number of people and several other label heads, executives, and people that are in the game.So thank you all to your contributions. We couldn't have done this without you. And if anything, it helped add a variety beyond just you and I, getting and putting our list out there. It added a more full scope and like anything. Oh, this is how you look at it. Interesting and being able to pull unique insights there.[00:06:21] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. you know, one thing I think we probably ought to point out, on the list, you know, the list is, heavily male. but it's about only 20% women on the list. you know, we did everything we could obviously to make it more equitable, but, you know, the votes are the votes.And, you know, I think there is a bit of a reflection of sort of the state of affairs over the past half century, you know, unfortunately, like many parts of music business, hip hop has been, you know, heavily overindexing for males. So, you know, here's hoping that when 50 years to do a hundred years of hip hop, you know, we'll have even things out a bit or completely, let's say maybe even, you know, made up for lost time, but I think some of the spots on the list, you know, the rankings do kind of reflect an industry reality that we've seen, unfortunately for 50 years.[00:07:06] Dan Runcie: Right? And hopefully this gets better. We do feel and you'll see when we talk about some of the people here, glad about some of the names that got mentioned. Of course, there's always room to be able to have more and hopefully for hip hop's 100th anniversary. If when and people are breaking that down, there's hopefully even more representation there.So, with that, I think it's probably good for us to get started right before the list, but talk about some of the honorable mentions. So, there were people that didn't quite make the cut of 50, but we still wanted to highlight them and the work that they. Did here. So a few of those names here to give a shout out to.So we have Cindy Campbell, Jermaine Dupree, Audrey Harrell, Jay Cole, Damon John. What comes or what do you think about when you hear those names?[00:07:55] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, you know, I mean, Cindy Campbell, I think in many ways you could look at her as the first promoter in hip hop history, right? I mean, you know, we're talking about 50 years of hip hop. That's 50 years from that first party that. She and DJ Kool Herc through, you know, in the rec room on Cedric Avenue.And, I think the idea was that they were going to raise a little bit of cash so she could go get herself a new back to school wardrobe. Now, if that's not, you know, entrepreneurship and hip hop, you know, from the very beginning, I don't know what it is. And so I think Cindy deserves a ton of credit, for being there at the very beginning, you know, but I think on the honorable mentions to a lot of the folks that are on here, you know, or maybe like a little bit, you know, not exactly falling on the same radar, you know, for the list. So like, you know, Damon John, obviously he did with, you know, creating FUBU and, you know, everything he's done as an entrepreneur, it's incredible, but it, I think it's sort of like more of a national brand that is, you know, apart from hip hop and so is his personality, right? Like you see him on shark tank or, you know, whatever, like he sort of moved past, I wouldn't necessarily categorize him, as just hip hop, although he's had a tremendous impact on hip hop.So I think probably that's why, he wasn't on more lists. It's not to sort of ding him his impact, which is considerable.[00:09:10] Dan Runcie: Right, and I do think that of course, music is one element of hip hop. You do have fashion, you do have others. So music definitely got weighted heavily in this list, but Dave and John and his influence in fashion, and there's other people in fashion and we'll get into them in this list too, but we can't overlook everything he did there and some of the more unique and clever marketing tactics that came from food booth that other people did who will mention in this list as well. 1 person that I do want to highlight here from that list 2 people. So, Jermaine Dupri want to give him a shout out as well. Just everything he was able to do with.So, so Def records. He was part of that movement in the 90s, where you saw LaFace and then all these other groups in the South be able to come up, do their own. There was a so so deaf sound, a so so Def vibe and his ability to do it both in rap, but also have a bit of the soul there. Some of the epic production that he's been involved with, even outside of hip hop, thinking about albums like Mariah Carey's Emancipation of Mimi and others, even though he didn't always do everything in hip hop. I think that some of his influence can't go overstated there. And then the second person who's similar in that regard, I would say is Andre Harrell. We talked about him in past episodes, especially the bad boy one, but everything that he did from Uptown Records and then moving on to Motown Records and gave in many ways helped give Puff the blueprint for what he was able to do years later.[00:10:37] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think Andre had a lot of successes, also had a lot of failures, not necessarily, you know, through his own doing, the time, but definitely somebody who deserves, you know, a hat tip at the very least. And, you know, I'm sure Puff would agree about that too.[00:10:52] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Agreed. All right. We ready ready to get into it.[00:10:57] Zack Greenburg: Let's do it.[00:10:58] Dan Runcie: All right. So in the initial group here, which we're calling the don't overlook their influence group. This is people who are ranked 50 through 41. so in order we have Ethiopia have to Marion at 50. She was the former CEO of Motown. We have Top Dog, co founder and CEO of Top Dog Entertainment. We have Mona Scott Young from her work at Violators and more recently Love Hip Hop. And what she also has done with Hip Hop Homicides and some other multimedia projects. We have T.I. with everything he's done with Grand Hustle and Multimedia. We have Eazy E with Priority Records. Many ways pioneering so much of the stuff we saw.We have Todd Moskowitz, L. A. Reed, Craig Kalman, former CEO from Atlantic. We have Sylvia Roan and then tied for 40. We have Desiree Perez and Steve Stout. What are your thoughts on that group list?[00:11:55] Zack Greenburg: Oh, man, I don't know. Maybe we should just pick out a few here and there that we thought were particularly interesting. I mean, you know, I think Ethiopia is a good example of somebody who would be higher up if she were identified, you know, solely as a, you know, as a hip hop mogul, but she's had kind of like a pretty wide reach, you know, especially in R and B, and pop. I mean, some of the stuff she's done with Erykah Badu, NeYo, Stevie Wonder, you know, like over the years, you know, wouldn't be classified as hip hop, but it's worth it nonetheless. just think that, you know, being kind of like in between, in between genres, you know, resulted in her being down a little bit further on the list.But, you know, somebody who had a tremendous impact. you know, I would also, I would highlight TI here, you know, the self proclaimed King of the South, but, you know, in terms of, I remember the years when, you know, we were putting together the Forbes list and, you know, kind of looking at, you know, kind of regionally who is most important to me.Yeah, he was sort of like. The Jay Z of the South. And he was really, especially when he was having that moment, you know, getting a lot of songs on, you know, national radio and, kind of being in the public eye, I mean, had a tremendous business focus, you know, he was always interested in sort of like, what's the next thing that I can create?and you know, that kind of entrepreneurial energy, you know, I think, especially within the context of the South, like taking the blueprint, from guys like Jay Z, you know, I think he certainly deserves a mention. I kind of thought he'd end up higher here, but I guess he's been, not as, especially in the music front lately.and then I would definitely highlight, Desiree, you know, she's somebody who's been behind the scenes for a really long time, with Jay Z and rock nation, but like. she runs rock nation. And although Jay Z obviously has the final say in things, you know, a lot of things that you see, come out of that camp are, you know, her doing and have her fingerprints all over them.And I know some of y'all might have seen the Book of Hove exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum or the Brooklyn Public Library that was a Desiree Perez production and, you know, she said that it was like her emptying her 80, 000 square foot storage unit into the library, but, you know, but to have, you know, that kind of, impact at a place like Roc Nation and to help, you know, Jay Z do what he's done, you know, I think those are all worthy, of notation and, you know, I think she deserves her spot there for sure.[00:14:09] Dan Runcie: Yeah, Desiree is someone that has been working with Jay Z for a while now, and I feel like she deserved a shout out on Jay's verse in Pound Cake, the Drake song. You know where he's like, Dave made millions, Lyor made millions. I feel like Desiree should have gotten a shout out there too, but yeah.I'm glad that she got mentioned here. Two other names I'll run through quickly. Steve Stout, someone who I thought would have ended up higher, and I know that, you know, it was interesting to see how the results played out, but I do think that one of the best marketers that we've seen come through hip hop.He was ahead of the curve in a number of ways, dating back to the 90s with seeing the men in black sunglasses and everything that he's done there from his time working with Nas, everything that they've done, whether it was the firm or, him being a record executive himself and then showing as well, how he's able to do it in advertising and bringing a lot of these companies and brands that didn't necessarily align or think about being related with, you know, hip hop culture and those elements to be able to do it.You look at a company like State Farm and how we now look at what that company has done. And a lot of that is through his work and obviously with what he's done at United Masters. So shout out there and I also do want to give a shout out to Mona Scott Young mentioned her earlier, but she was a right hand to someone who will mention on the list as well coming up soon with everything she did in Violator, this is back when, you know, Q Tip and Busta Rhymes and that whole crew were doing their thing. And then later, I know people have a lot of polarizing opinions about love and hip hop, but if you look at the career opportunities that were created for people that have came through, and the longevity that she's granted, a lot of people that the record industry forgot about that she was able to continue to give opportunities for think about the trick daddies, Trina's and folks like that. I know people hate to see them arguing on camera, but would we have Cardi B where she is today? If it weren't for the platform of love and hip hop, and she's continued to do things with other vocals on the list that we'll get into. So I do want to give a shout out to her[00:16:08] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, definitely a worthy shout out. And we could probably go on and on about even just like the tent in this bracket here, but I suppose we ought to, we ought to move on to the next room before, before we run[00:16:19] Dan Runcie: indeed. Yep. So the next group is playing chest, not checkers. So at 39, we have Dave Mays, founder of the source 38. We have Irv Gotti, founder of Murder, Inc. 37, Cardi B 36, Lil Wayne 35, Nipsey Hussle, 34. Steve Rifkin, from Loud Records 33, Missy Elliot. 32 Birder from Cookies, 31 Kevin Lyles and 30 Chris Lighty.[00:16:47] Zack Greenburg: Oh man, this is a pretty stacked bracket, I must say. I think that, you know, there are a couple of names that stick out to me here. I'm going to go with Nipsey and Berner, because in a funny way, I think, they have like a sort of a similar, a sort of similar strategy, which is like, you have a very clear idea of what it is that you're going to do.You own it, and then you, you know, you continue to own it like ownership. Was just such an important thing for Nipsey. Such an important thing for Berner. And, you know, interviewing the two of them, I would say, their mindset around ownership was the closest I've ever seen to Jay Z. and they really understood from the beginning that they had to own all their music.Own all of their branding own, you know, the companies that create on the side and then they can monetize it later. And, you know, with Nipsey rest in peace. I mean, he was just on the cusp of, of kind of like becoming a mainstream superstar, you know, when, his life ended all too soon. So, I think what Berner is doing with cookies is really fascinating like Berner is, you know, you want to talk, lists. I mean, he's in the top five, probably the top four or three at this point, in terms of net worth for actual, hip hop artists. And that's because of the success of cookies and, you know, there's been, a lot of ups and downs in the cannabis business lately, but like the amount of ownership that he has, you know, I think it amounts to about one third still of cookies, which is, you know, a billion dollar brand. When we gets legalized, you know, like he's going to see the fruits of his labor and, that focus on ownership I think is really going to pay off on the longterm.So I would highlight those two guys, in this tier as the ones that, I think were the most impressive to me. That's not to shade anybody else, but,[00:18:25] Dan Runcie: Yeah, those two guys are also two of the few people who I see people still wearing their merchandise on a regular basis. Granted, I live in San Francisco. There's a cookie store here. So, I mean, I know there is a local connection for sure, but same with Nipsey Hussle. I mean, sadly, it's now been over 4 years since he passed away, and you still see Crenshaw shirts.He understood, Nipsey especially, understood exactly where everything's going. And it's just so sad that, you know, it was gone so soon. Two names, I'm going to shout out here. I'm going to shout. I'm going to shout out Cardi B and I want to shout out Chris Lighty. So Cardi B talked about her a little with the Mona Scott young piece, but she's entered and ran her rap career more uniquely than other artists that we've seen at her level have. And I think that speaks a lot to just where the game is now. It's been over six years since Bodak Yellow came out. And it's been over five years now since her debut album. This is someone who hasn't put out a studio album in over five years.And hasn't gone on tour in a traditional way, but it's still doing her thing. And I think this is one of the things that's unique. She finds interesting ways to monetize herself and to put herself on. She's like, Hey, I can do these private shows and they're going to pay me, you know, 1. 5 million or 3 million just to do a half an hour set.I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to be there at Super Bowl weekend. I may not be performing at the Super Bowl, but I'm going to go do these private shows for Bob craft or the fanatics event or all these things and collect the checks. it's very interesting to see younger artists to do that Lionel Richie playbook, but she is like, Hey, I don't necessarily have to do that. And even though people always do try to, you know, loop her into the Nicki Minaj versus Cardi B beef, she still has lended her hand and extended it to other young artists, especially women in the game, whether it's Ice Spice and others, whether she's doing it through her talents and others. So she's someone that I hope as she continues on, you know, into her thirties and into her forties can continue to rise up this list.And then Chris Lighty talked about a little bit with Mona Sky Young, co founder of Violator and everything they're able to do there. Sad that he was taken away so soon, but if you have not heard this yet and if you haven't listened to the podcast, I highly recommend the Mogul podcast series that was done several years ago on it.It was done by Reggie Yose, who is Combat Jack, who has since passed away as well, but I highly recommend that if you want a full breakdown on everything Chris Leite did. Violator and after that was truly one of the early ones looking at product partnerships and a lot of the things that we see now that are common in hip hop.[00:21:07] Zack Greenburg: And, you know, if we didn't have Chris Lighty, I don't think we would have had 50 Cent. I mean, at least not to the extent that we have him. you know, I mean, I remember writing my first story about 50 and like for Forbes, maybe 2008 and sitting down with Chris and just kind of like hearing him lay out the plan.And again, it's the emphasis on ownership, right? you know, Chris Leidy, I think was the one who really pushed, 50 to take the equity in vitamin water and his parent company, rather than just do an endorsement. And, you know, obviously that became a huge, deal and really like a model for so much, not only of hip hop, but like other parts of the entertainment industry, you know, I think Chris definitely deserves a spot, maybe even should be a little higher. and you know, probably also, there's, you know, again, all these folks deserve a shout out, but Kevin Lyles, I think is, got one of the most inspirational stories. you know, it's another person, I think we've both interviewed a bunch of times, but, you know, just his journey from intern to president of Def Jam and I think seven years. And he just did it by working harder than everybody else like he wasn't an artist that got put there because he had some hit, it wasn't some kind of like nepotism deal, you know, he just outworked everybody and, you know, he had the talent and, you know, the horsepower to just like get it done. And to make that journey within seven years. So I think it's, for people who are listening and, you know, want to do something like that with their own career, you know, study Kevin Miles because he was able to make it, without being, you know, some kind of like preternatural, singing talent or something like that he just did it on smarts and work ethic.[00:22:39] Dan Runcie: And one of the few people that co founded a record label and sold it a decade later for hundreds of millions of dollars, which is what he did 300 as well. Right? So of course, not 300 now underwater, but everything he did with Lyor and Todd, there, is impressive. There's not that many black founders in general. In tech, any sector that have built and exited companies for several hundred, a million dollars, the way that he was able to be a part of that. So, hats offhim.[00:23:09] Zack Greenburg: yeah, I think it takes a special kind of guts to be able to, you know, I mean, he was a well paid executive with a cushy music job, you know, to leave that world, start your own thing. I mean, I know they had, you know, big backers and everything, but like to take a risk once you've already experienced that level of success and to go out and start something, you know, as opposed to starting something from scratch when you have nothing anyway.I mean, it, takes a lot of gumption to do that. So, you know, again, yes, a pretty cool second act for Kevin miles.[00:23:38] Dan Runcie: Indeed, the next group here, our impact runs deep. It is Nicki Will Smith at 28, Swiss beats 27, LL Cool J, 26, Coach K and P, 25, Julie Greenwald, 24. The E40 23, Pharrell 22, and Rick Ross, 21.[00:24:01] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I think, that's a pretty strong, deck there. And I think also, you know, here, you find some people who, you could argue should be higher or lower based on, you know, how much of their career was done in the hip hop music world, right? Like Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Will Smith.Obviously those are huge crossover acts. but I think they all got a lot of points from some of the voters because, you know, that is in one way, the measure of a mogul, like you're diversifying your portfolio and whether that's by owning different things or, you know, by getting into, different types of performance, you know, on the silver screen, I think that's a viable path too.but just from like a purely musical entrepreneurial perspective, I would highlight, Swiss Beats and Pharrell, who I think, you know, the two of them are more influential than anybody in terms of like, I'd say Swizz in terms of art and Pharrell in terms of fashion. and you know, some of the things they've done around those two areas and, you know, Pharrell certainly, now with LVMH, but also before with Ice Cream, Billionaire Boys Club, you know, he was very active in starting his own things on the fashion side.And, you know, kind of inspiring artists to do that. you know, would we have had a Yeezy if we hadn't had Pharrell, you know, doing what he was doing and, you know, and even doing what he did with Adidas? you know, I don't know about that. And, Swiss beads certainly, you know, not only from the art side of things, but you know, it's a really impressive art collection.I did a story on him a few years ago and, you know, he's got like, Jeff Kuhn sculptures and Basquiat's and Warhol's and his, you know, like in his foyer. I mean, it's, pretty impressive stuff. but the way that he moves behind the scenes, as sort of like a corporate brand whisperer, at places, you know, like Bacardi, Lotus, you know, this goes on, you know, I think he, he's sort of like more quietlyinfluential than, some folks realize. And, you know, certainly has been earning, on par with, you know, with all the, you know, most of the names, if not higher than most of the names we've mentioned so far. and you know, what he's done on the, both of them, what they've done on the production side, also hard to top.So that must count for something as well. I kind of went more than one shout out there, didn't I? So[00:26:06] Dan Runcie: Yeah. No, that was good. That was good.I'm glad you mentioned the two of them though, because if you didn't, I probably would've called the other one out. The thing about Swiss as well, everything that he's done with versus specifically also embodies this idea and definition of a mogul because he was able to be.A kingmaker in the sense of creating opportunities for others. He did that through the equity that he was able to give all of those early participants in versus in trailer itself. And then additionally, with the careers that we're able to have a boost because of. everything that happened, with the matchups from versus specifically, you look at someone like Ashanti, who is now doing tours and pop it up every now and then she wasn't doing that before her versus and her battle versus Keisha Cole was one of the not, if not the most watched one that we've had.You look at Jadakiss and everything that he's been able to do since his epic showdown against, with Lox versus Dipset with that versus you look at Jeezy versus Gucci Mane. I know that versus definitely had its peak popularity during the pandemic, but that kind of stuff that he was able to do with Timbaland, I think also speaks so much to everything that he's been able to do there.And another person I want to mention to that was in this group as well that I think is similar is LL Cool J because I think similar to the way that. Swiss beets is Ella is also with someone that's been involved with multimedia with everything from the jump. He was the 1st artist to truly breakthrough from Def Jam and did it as a teenager.So, of course, he gets plenty of shout out for that, but he's also always been trying to find ways to look out for that next generation of artists. And he's been doing some of that more recently with rock the bells, and that's its own. Company and entity now where they have a festival coming up as well to celebrate things that are happening with hip hops anniversary.So it's been cool to see him do things as well. And I'll give a very brief shout out here to, coach K and P because they, similar to how I mentioned, Kevin Liles were able to build and grow a company and then sell it for, I believe, forget the exact sale price for, quality control. But they were able to do that thanks in part to a lot of the work that Ethiopia had done, helping to give quality control, the platform that it did, and especially in an era where I think it's harder for a record label to have a true brand, they were able to help give it a boost.[00:28:36] Zack Greenburg: That's true. And on that note of labels, I think Julie Greenwald, there's a mention, you know, she and Craig Kalman, who's mentioned, in an earlier grouping, you know, run Atlantic together. And there's a lot of, of music that we wouldn't have seen if it had been for the two of them, you know, running the show over there.So, shout out to Julie. I mean, the only one actually we haven't discussed here with E40 and Rick Ross. And I don't know, you know, probably get moving, but, do you think Rick Ross deserves to be number 21 on this entire list? Like ahead of Pharrell, ahead of, you know, some of the other names on here. I was surprised that he was ranked this high.[00:29:09] Dan Runcie: I love the spicy questions. Cause this is what people wanted to hear the podcast about, right? They wanted to hear one of us, you know, poke the bear a little bit.If Rick Ross was able to nail that dive in the pool, do you think you would have ranked him higher?[00:29:21] Zack Greenburg: Ha ha ha ha ha ha. No, no, I wouldn't. I mean, I still know. I mean, you know, like I get it, you know, he's called the boss that he must be a mogul, You know, and, some of the things he's done in terms of, you know, Bel Air and Maybach music and all that. Sure. But like, you know, when you put them up against like some of the other ones, did he really do something new or was he more just like following a, blueprint that had worked for others before and, you know, executing it to a degree success, but like, again, not, you know, not to the level of, let's say Pharrell.I think maybe I just, I'm salty that he ended up ahead of Pharrell. I think Pharrell is just way more influential and Mowgli, but, I don't know. What do you think?[00:29:59] Dan Runcie: So, I've read 2 of Ross's books and I interviewed him once on Trapital. I think that, to your point, he did follow the blueprint that we saw from others. I think he is smart about the types of partnerships he does, but it does feel like a ditty light. Type of playbook that he's been able to do and build.And I do think a lot of it makes sense. He may not necessarily have the large media entities the way that he does. Although I do think he's overdue for some type of comedy show or some type of reality show just following him around because I think he's hilarious. And anytime that he gets that, it could just generate something unique.And I'm sure he's been hit up about it. I do think that he's done well for himself. Just thinking about. Now, how his career is growing, I think it's been what, 16, 17 years since hustling 1st came out. I think in this range, there is some flexibility there in terms of like, where people are in certain ways.I get why he may not necessarily be as high. I'm sure if you looked at the net worth or the earnings, that some of the people that are lower than him may actually be higher. I think 1 of the knocks potentially is although Maybach music was cool. I wrote about this in Trapit as well. I think there was a missed opportunity.And part of that comes from, huh, did Ross do all the things that he probably could have done from a leadership perspective to especially like, when Meek Mill and Wally were beefing and stuff. And I think Ross had a bit more of a laissez faire approach to things, which in some ways is kind of the opposite of King making as we're talking about this, right?Can we really bring folks together and make something larger than it is. I think it was a bit tough in general for people to try to do everything themselves, try to be the boss of this label, which is signed to a different label because Rick Ross was signed to a different label than MNG was himself. And I think anytime you have that type of dynamic, it's just splitting the leadership interests. So I hear you.[00:32:00] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. So then how much of a mogul are you, if your label is really, you know, so I guess everybody's labels on somebody else's label and have you distributed by something, but you know, it's like when they're like multiple labels kind of, you know, intertwined with your label, it kind of causes the question.are you really the boss? If you have several bosses that you're answering to, but you know, I think actually though. in Rick Ross's defense, what he's done with Wingstop, I mean, that is pretty unique and, I don't know that anybody else on this list has something comparable in that space.So, you know, maybe that's why, I think, you know, by virtue of that, you could put them pretty high up. And maybe that's what some of the judges were thinking, you know, but he also ended up on a lot of lists, you know, so some of the judges just kind of like, maybe we're getting to some of the judges sent rank lists, and they're like, you know, this person is the top and they should get the most points and other people were like, here are my people.And you can just rank them evenly. and I think Rick Ross ended up on a lot of those lists. So, you know. I think again, maybe like I was alluding to earlier, he's a bit of a compiler, nothing wrong with that, you know, you can get into the hall of fame by compiling 3000 hits, but, it's interesting to see how, how the opinions differ. That's the whole fun of it.[00:33:06] Dan Runcie: He runs his business is almost like how a small business owner would in a number of ways where he has a bunch of car washes and, you know, his is 1 of the family members does that he has his wing stops, right? He has that. And it is a bit of this, like, mogul dumbness from that perspective in terms of like, okay, I have my hands in these things and I've hired people to have, you know, different roles within that that doesn't necessarily have things in aggregate. It's a bit more of the strip mall mentality as opposed to the, you know, building a skyscraper that could then build other skyscrapers, but it's something worth mentioning, but I hope we keep that up with a few of the other rankings we have coming up as we dig into the top 20, here.So, yeah, let's start with 20. So, 20, Queen Latifah, I think that she and, Ice Cube, who we'll get into in a minute, were one of the first that noticed, hey, I may not be able to do this rap thing forever, what are areas that I can expand this multimedia empire and everything I'm building.She was able to do this with Living Single, the show that was Friends before Friends was, and even the way that she was able to show young black people that were having, you know, highly sought after roles, but they still had their interpersonal dynamics. It was cool. It was refreshing. It was aspirational, which I do think that a lot of the black sitcoms were in the 90s.And she was able to do that, continue finding ways to put other people on as well through the work that she did. She was also willing to take risks. Like I remember when she was in set it off, people had a bunch of questions about, Oh, you're going to play a lesbian in this heist movie. What is this going to do for your career?And she was willing to do that. And I think she is always, you know, be willing to take risks. So, you know, shout out to her and I'm glad that several people have mentioned her[00:34:56] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think she gets credit for, like you say, diversifying her portfolio. you know, into the acting world. it's worth noting, you know, she was barely ahead of Rick Ross. but you know, there is a big difference between 21 and 20. It's the top 20. So, again, I think, you know, she was a bit of a compiler, but there were a couple of people who ranked her in the top 10.and, you know, I think just like in terms of the breadth of her career, you know, the longevity, the diversity of the things that she's gotten into. you know, even if it's not as much ownership as somebody, even like a Rick Ross, it's just like, having your hands in a lot of pies and like that really counts for something as a mogul.So, I think it makes sense to see you there.[00:35:36] Dan Runcie: Agreed 19 is Eminem. So let's talk about it. How do we feel about Eminem in 19?[00:35:43] Zack Greenburg: You know, I think it's a weird one, honestly. you know, there's no doubting, his lyrical prowess and where, you know, where he kind of stacks up as part of like the pantheon of lyricists, like fine. But is he really a mogul? I mean, he's somebody who has been, you know, very reclusive at times. Who has, you know, kind of gotten in his own way at other times. I mean, I could see ranking him up here though, just by virtue of ownership of the music and sort of like the quality and quantity of his catalog. you know, what he did with D12, you know, he did have shady records and, you know, and all that.So again, you know, there, there is kind of a layer cake of a label situation, like some of the folks who mentioned earlier across, but, you know, that was at least important to him to set up, you know, as his continued ownership of, You know, his work and, you know, certainly when it comes to like raw commercial prowess, you know, Eminem, is one of the best selling hip hop artists of all time.If not the best, depending on how you look at it. And just, you know, simply by virtue of the amount of revenue he generated, you know, throughout the late 90s and early aughts at the peak of the sort of CD age there. you know, that deserves, some kind of something, even if he wasn't running around starting his own, you know, side businesses as much as some of these other folks[00:37:02] Dan Runcie: Best selling artist of the 2000s by a pretty strong amount, I believe, and has the most of any genre, right? And the most streamed song of the 2000s as well, at least on Spotify with Lose Yourself, and I'm pretty sure Till I Collapse and maybe a couple of others aren't too far. Behind as Will Page as Spotify's former chief economist said, anytime Eminem farts or burps or releases anything on a streaming service, it provides a huge bump to everything in this back catalog.So, I still laugh about that, but I do think that speaks to it there and. If, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was one of the first hip hop artists to have a Sirius XM channel himself.So that's something that's unique and obviously Sirius is still doing its thing. So, shout out to him there. A bit higher than I probably would have ranked him, but that's why it's interesting to get the group results here. Ah, this one's gonna be spicy. Number 18. Your boy, Suge Knight.[00:38:02] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, you know, I mean, I think this is one of the tougher ones on the entire list. You know, this is not like a list of, Ms. Congeniality or Mr. Congeniality, as you'll see, you know, some of the other names on here. Obviously, you know, Suge is in jail. he's been involved in the death of, you know, human beings that like that is, you know, not sort of like what you're after in a mogul here, but, enough people, you know, I guess felt that the business, if you just, you know, looking at it from a pure business perspective, was enough to put them up here. And, you know, there is no arguing that death row at its peak was one of the most influential record labels, you know, not just in hip hop, but of anything. I mean, any genre, when death row was at its hottest, I don't know any, kind of moment where any other, you know, you'd have to stack that up against peak Motown or, you know, Atlantic or something like that, but, you know, that was really like a, peak moment. So, you know, I think this is one of the things we run into on this list like if somebody exhibits, a level of, you know, sort of business ingenuity, you know, that counts for something and, you know, the other things that you do in your life and your career, you know, we'll detract from that, but, you know, what you did at your peak, I think will get you pretty far in a list like this when people kind of count, you know, we kind of count sort of like the ceiling as opposed to the average, in some cases. So, I don't know. What do you think?[00:39:27] Dan Runcie: These are the two most impressive business moves that Suge Knight has done. Number two is shaking down Vanilla Ice to get his points for everything that he did on the album that had Ice Ice Baby there. Because he was able to use that money to then start and co found Death Row with Dr. Dre. That's number two.Number one is at the 1995 Source Awards where he publicly makes his Call to attract Tupac to say, Hey, I know you're in jail, but we're riding with you. Tupac wasn't signed there at the time, but he knew that this was an opportunity. Tupac likely needed somewhere to call a home and he called his shot. He was able to make it happen.I know everyone talks about the diddy shot about, you know, being all in the video death row. And that, of course, is infamous in its own right. But I think the number one thing that should night did is that that said. those 2 things speak to what should night is, 1, it is that muscle and the prowess of being able to overpower a situation and then take advantage.And I think those were things that he was good at. That said, I don't think he was necessarily strong as a. Business leader, the company imploded in large part. And I don't think it imploded because of Dr. Dre, it imploded because of all of the things, all the shenanigans. And I think for what he was building, some of that just got a little too close to the sun, unfortunately. And, that's Chuck Knight[00:40:49] Zack Greenburg: And, I think that, you know, in some of the reporting I've done over the years, One of the things people say is that Shug and a lot of the guys around him, you know, it wasn't that they were necessarily like that. It's just they kind of had been watching too many bad gangster movies and the music business, didn't know what to do with somebody like Suge Knight.And so the more he kind of like played this role, the more he grew into it to where, to the point where he was actually living sort of a bad gangster movie. and sort of like created, turned himself into a monster. Yeah, so I think like the evolution. or the evolution, of somebody like Suge Knight is sort of fascinating in terms of like what you can, what sort of playing a role can do to you, over the course of time.[00:41:32] Dan Runcie: Agreed. And well said number 17 here is America's most wanted ice cube. I'll start here to kick things off. I think that Ice Cube, like Queen Latifah mentioned earlier, was one of the early ones who had said that he knew that living and doing everything off a raft wasn't gonna last forever. And I think a lot of it was because he experienced some of the brunt and ugliness of it.I mean, we've all seen the Straight Outta Compton movie. He goes into Jerry Heller's office. He starts smashing shit. He releases no Vaseline. There was definitely a no fucks given that carried through even after he was done with NWA, but he saw what this industry is like as well and then that's when he starts writing screenplays.And then that's how Friday because the thing becomes a thing. And then. His career just continues to take off after that he still dabbled in rap and did his thing, but he definitely became known early on for one of the people that took a risk with cube entertainment and everything that he was able to do there.And with any of the movies that he had, whether it was the movies with Mike Epps and plenty others, I do believe that most of these movies were pretty profitable. And he was able to. Do it work within the confines that he had and just continue to build everything he did from a career. We've seen him expand as well into everything that he's done with the big 3 specifically giving a home for basketball players that can still play, but maybe they can't make, you know, a 13 person NBA roster anymore.I do think that some of his more recent news highlights that are a bit more politically driven or him walking around with Tucker Carlson and probably take it away from some of the more prominent memories of Hugh Ice Cube is, but yeah, that's why I had had him or that's why he, I think deserves to be, you know, where he is, on the list.[00:43:27] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think it's interesting, you know, you see, Eminem, Suge Knight, Ice Cube, all together, you know, they're all, inextricably connected to Dr. Dre. one way or the other. Right. and you know, would there, would Dre have been Dre without the three of them? you know, at different phases of his career, you know, I don't know, I mean, I think certainly what, Ice Cube did as part of NWA, you know, I wouldn't say that, that NWA was like.like a business first organization. But like that wasn't the point of NWA and if it hadn't been for NWA, I don't think you would have been able to have business first organizations come out of hip hop in the way that you did. and certainly, you know, somebody like Dr. Dre, so. I think he gets extra points for that.and, you know, this is probably why, you know, he was again, I don't know, was he compiler? He was, you know, he had like a lot of kind of middling, a lot of lists, a couple of top 10 votes, you know? So, you know, I think again, everybody has their favorite and he's up there for a lot of folks.[00:44:27] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Number 16 is Drake. Should we poke the bear again?[00:44:33] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. Does Drake deserve to be at number 16 on this list?[00:44:37] Dan Runcie: This one surprised me, I was very surprised at the number of people that had him on the list, because you can make a case for the opposite, right? It's similar to the M and M thing, but almost to the extreme because M and M, yes, most commercially successful artists, XYZ. There's other artists that are less commercially successful at M and M that did more in that mogul definition but for Drake, it's even bigger of a Delta between these two, because here you have the most streamed artists of all time. So clearly commercially successful on its own, but people believe that OVO. Records or OVO sound itself actually could hurt an artist's career. And when you think about that, you think about some of the other multimedia things that he's done.I know he's been active as an investor and I know that people like Nicki Minaj and others have said, Oh, you know, Drake's a low key billionaire. He just doesn't want you to know it personally. Again, he may be, I mean, I'm not sure what he may not disclose, but it isn't always just about wealth. It's like, what opportunities were you able to create for each other?I do think it's good. That drink has been able to have different people that have been working alongside that. I think did get a bit of that drink stimulus package. And I think that's something that is quite debated, but I do think that. I feel like 21 Savage has definitely benefited from it. I mean, he was already commercially successful, but for him and Drake to do a joint album together was huge.I think it was the same way that it was huge for Future and the same way that the Migos going on tour with Drake in 2018 was huge for them and anything else that Drake continues to do from that perspective. So I think it is, you know, debatable, but I mean, people do definitely add some weight to the artists themselves.[00:46:18] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And, you know, I think he should be around Eminem and whether they're both too high is an open question, but, you know, there's no doubting the commercial viability of what he's done. He did start more side businesses in Eminem, right? With OVO, whether it's the label, the festival, the clothing line, you know, he started a whiskey brand called Virginia black, which I tried once.It tasted okay. but I don't think it's selling, you know, I don't know if he's even still doing it. yeah, he is definitely involved as a startup investor, so maybe, you know, we'll see some exits and we start to think of him differently at that point. But, yeah, you know, again, I think it's, some voters just kind of overweighted, you know, musical prowess and pop culture influence.And if you're talking about that, I, I don't know anybody who's been as influential in the past 15 years. I mean, he's, you know, he's the most streamed artist of all time and that's got to count for something.[00:47:08] Dan Runcie: Right. I know his cannabis line failed, but there's a lot of people, even people that we'll get to in this list that have also had failed or struggling cannabisbusinesses. And, there's a lot that we could discuss there, but moving on number 15 is Sylvia Robinson, the originator.[00:47:26] Zack Greenburg: I think she deserves to be in the top five, personally. because if there were no Sylvia Robinson, yeah, I mean, I don't know that we have hip hop and, you know, it's, you know, for those who don't know the story, she was running sugar hill records with her husband, Joe sylvia was actually a child star singer herself.And, you know, they kind of had this like middling existence with their label. And then all of a sudden she's at this birthday party that she didn't even want to go to in Harlem and she sees Lovebug Starsky up on the microphone. A hip hop hippie to the hippie to the hip hip hop. You know, this is early, early seventies.She's never heard anything like it. All the kids, you know, hands in the air, like you just don't care. And the whole thing. she tries to get Lovebug to sign. There's some kind of dispute, like with his management, never happens. And so she just goes to the pizzeria in New Jersey, finds three kids, get him, gets them to talk real fast over this record is how she described it.and that's, you know, that's Rapper's Delight. That's the first hip hop song on Wax. That's the first hit. you know, that sort of spawns the whole genre. So, you could certainly argue, that, you know, she, borrowed or she hired, hired people who borrowed or whatever to do this, you know, like the idea that, that the first hip hop, track on wax was like, you know, originated in a pizza shop in New Jersey is really unfortunate cause it started at the Bronx, but like, you know, Sylvia came from Harlem.She, you know, she, she knew that world. Like, you know, she was part of the music business and, for better or worse, she took hip hop from being, you know, just basically like spoken word in person kind of thing to being, you know, national events. Would it have happened eventually?Yeah, I think so. But you know, who knows? I mean, it could have taken years longer and if it took years longer, you know, are we going to have the eighties with like run DMC and Def Jam and all that? Like, you know, I don't know. I mean, it, could have taken a lot longer to get off the ground if she hadn't done what she'd done.And, you know, I don't think we, I don't think we should really be dinging Sylvia Robinson for her Machiavellian tactics, given some of the other people on this list, you know, we're talking like Suge Knight and whoever else, you know, there's quite nefarious characters, you know, as we get higher up too in this list.So, you know, I don't think anything she did was. remotely as bad as, as like a lot of the dudes on this list. and, you know, so, you know, let's, I think we give her her due and yeah, I would definitely put her higher, but, you know, I think that's part of the deal when, when you have somebody who's that early on.You know, people are going to say, Oh, well, you know, the total gross is not quite as much as so and so or whatever the case may be. And she wasn't as famous as some of the artists. So, but you know, she's up there, I mean, ahead of some pretty big names, Drake, Eminem, what have you. So, I think she's getting some flowers here[00:50:00] Dan Runcie: The total gross knock is always one that makes me roll my eyes a bit because even if you take out the inflation aspect and the amount of money that's now in the industry, this is something that happens with pioneers in any type of industry. They are the ones that take the early hits to make it possible.She and her work is what made it possible for rappers to like, she and her workers have made it possible for the message and anything else that we then see after that. Yes. Sugar Hill. records did have its struggles, afterward, like many other labels. But what do you think about broader context of the eighties being a very tough time in general for black music?And there were only a certain number of decision makers in power that could make that happen. Yeah. You have to take that into account. And then additionally, she did stuff outside of even just this record label itself. As you mentioned, she was a recording artist herself. She also owned a nightclub. So there were other mogul type things that she had her hands.And so shout out to Sylvia, who knows where this would be without her.[00:51:00] Zack Greenburg: And probably worth caveating also that, you know, she did have some, Disputes over paying artists, as the years went on. So did like really a lot of people on this list is we could do like a whole separate, you know, like has some kind of dispute on how they pay artists. So, you know, that, that's probably worth noting too, but yeah, I mean, so does everybody else.And, you know, I think she deserves her flowers.[00:51:22] Dan Runcie: Number 14, Dame Dash,[00:51:25] Zack Greenburg: Another, another hot one coming in. I mean, I think a lot of people would disagree with this, but you know, some people would put them even higher. I mean, I think he might be the most polarizing name on this entire list. Like some people had on top five, you know, some people didn't list them at all.you know, I think it kind of comes in. We've had this conversation before. Would there be a Jay Z without a Damon Dash? you know, I mean, I think so, but it's that part of the, you know, we've talked about him in the context of startups and do you, you know, you need a different kind of founder for your like pre seed days than you do for your series B.you know, if you're like a mafia, family, you need like a wartime Don, you know, versus like a peacetime Don or whatever it's called. But like, you know, I think, Dame Dash is a wartime Don. He's a seed stage startup founder. and he does it fair as well. You know, when it comes to like the growth stage and the corporate boardrooms and stuff, but, you know, there's no denying his brilliance.you know, I think what he did, you know, certainly with rock aware, you know, expanding, the Roc-A-Fella empire beyond music. you know, maybe he realized that Jay was eventually going to leave and that they just, it wasn't going to be forever. And so he wanted to get his hands into, you know, as many different areas as he could, but, you know, there's like a lot of pro and a fair bit of con, but, you know, I think again, he's one who, you know, the pro outweighed the con, he didn't kill anybody, you know, so there's some people on here who did.yeah, the con is only like so much con in my opinion.[00:52:56] Dan Runcie: This conversation makes me think about, that backstage documentary that. Roc-A-Fella had put out after the hard knock life tour. And there's that infamous scene of Dave dash yelling and swearing at Kevin Lyles, who was at Def Jam at the time about the jackets and where what logo was supposed to be, or something other than that.And thinking about that in context now of like, you know, how we talked about Kevin Lyles and everything he was able to do from that run and still can continue to do. And with where Dame Dash is, is in his career, Dame Dash doing his thing. I think he very much lived through and practice and preach the ownership standards that worked for him, where he has Dame Dash Studios, Dame Dash this, and he's been able to.Create exactly what he wanted to. We heard him on that infamous 2015 breakfast club interview where he's yelling at DJ Envy and Charlemagne about, Oh, well, if your son wants a job, can you get him a job here at power 105 or whatever? No. Well, I can do him at where I'm at. And as comic as the delivery was, there is some aspect of mogul dumb.That is a bit of that King making aspect of, okay, can you create opportunities for others around you? What those opportunities look like definitely vary. And I think that is a factor. So I do highlight that is something that Dame is able to do. And Dave is also similar to he's similar to a polarizing basketball player in the sense that the media may look and be like, why do you all fuck with this guy?Like, what's going on? But if you ask the people that are actually in it, a lot of that would be like, oh, well, you got to look at Dame dash, Dame dash is the guy. And when I have. Interviewed. I'm sure you've interviewed and talked to many of young artists, too, or young label executives, too. A lot of them will reference Dave Dash.A lot of them will look at what he was able to do alongside Roc-A-Fella, almost in the same way that, you know, players will swear by Kyrie or swear by James Harden or some other type of athlete that may be polarizing in their own right. And the media is like, Oh, why do you all like this guy? And it's like, Oh, well, no, you don't understand.So there's something about. The people, and obviously I say that being self aware is us as people more so on the media side, as opposed to being in it themselves. But there's something about these young artists and moguls as well that have always looked up and respected what Dame has built. And even though it may not resonate, like, personally, I acknowledge that.[00:55:23] Zack Greenburg: I would say, if you're going to make a basketball reference, Maybe not personality, but like basketball style, I'd almost liken him to Carmelo Anthony, you know, like he's an isolationist. He's a scorer, like, you know, he may not be very good at distributing the basketball, but like, you know, you throw him the ball in the corner and he's going to find a way to get it in.And, You know, like a lot of people wouldn't think that he belongs in the Hall of Fame at all, you know, but some people would, be insistent on it. So, you know, yeah, I think that sort of like singular focus, you know, you could definitely give him credit for that,[00:55:55] Dan Runcie: Agreed. Number 13, we are Cohen.[00:55:58] Zack Greenburg: man, another like bulldozer of a human being, but, you know, certainly somebody who, you know, maybe he has also got the finger roll, you know, like he, he can have a light touch when needed. you know, I think just like in terms of longevity, we talk about longevity with some of the names on this list, you know, Leroy was there in the very beginning of hip hop, you know, managing rappers, and it gives the road manager run DMC, taking the leader

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Few record labels have left their stamp on the industry quite like Motown. This assembly line churned out hit song after hit song in the ‘60s and early ‘70s. With a who's-who roster — Marin Gaye, The Jackson 5, Diana Ross, and Stevie Wonder, among others — The Hitsville U.S.A. sign Gordy put on Motown's front door became warranted. This episode is the story of Motown Records — it's formula for success, what led to its decline, and where it stands today under Universal. I'm joined by friend of the pod, Zack O'Malley Greenburg. Here's what we covered in this episode:0:38 Berry Gordy's origin story8:08 Motown museum in Detroit9:20 Cultivating a culture of creativity13:05 Shifting the sound of Black music20:12 Motown's knack for discovering talent 34:29 The beginning of the decline36:12 80's decade of transition39:48 Post-Gordy struggles45:51 Motown's uncertainty today53:59 Best signing?55:16 Best business move?568:45 Dark horse move?1:01:58 Biggest missed opportunity?1:07:13 Motown big-screen picture1:09:22 Berry Gordy won big1:10:41 Who lost the most?1:14:56 Zack's Jay Z indexListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: Berry Gordy created with Motown and sort of the Motown genre, which I think really like more than any label has become synonymous beyond just sort of like the name of label itself, you say Motown music, and a testament to the sound that he created,[00:00:13] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:38] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is a deep dive into the one and only legendary Motown records. At its peak, Motown was the most successful black business in the country. It peaked at 30 million dollars of revenue in 1968 and Barry Gordy and his team assembled a sound. a unique genre of music that produced hit after hit after hit and Hitsville USA lived up to its promise.So in this episode, we take you through the origins of how Motown came to be. What are some of the business principles and strategies that worked in its favor? And then what are some of the challenges that Motown faced too? It's now been 50 years since the peak of Motown. And this record label has had plenty of ups and downs and plenty of journeys that we went deep on in this episode. And I'm joined by Zach Greenburg He is a biographer of Jay Z and several others, and he also wrote about Michael Jackson. And in that he talked about Michael Jackson's time with Motown, especially in the Jackson 5. So we had a lot of fun in this one. So come take a trip down memory lane with us. Here's our episode on Motown.[00:01:42] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we're back with another case study style episode, and we're going deep into Hitsville, USA. Motown, baby. Let's do this, Zack, I'm excited for this one.[00:01:53] Zack Greenburg: Thanks for having me as always.[00:01:55] Dan Runcie: Berry Gordy is so fascinating because At one point, this was the most successful black business. They're the most successful black entrepreneur in the country invented a genre.And it's so hard to be able to do that. And that legacy still lives on today. We know so many record labels that have taken inspiration from what Berry Gordy built with Motown records, but let's start from the beginning. What inspired Berry Gordy to even want to get involved with music in the first place?[00:02:23] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. So, you know, Berry Gordy, and his family were in the Detroit area, you know, a bunch of serial entrepreneurs, get a record shop early on, but he was actually like semi professional boxer coming up. And, think one thing led to another and you just kind of saw that, you know, there was a market that was not being served in music.you know, certainly like the business was concentrated, on the coast and particularly in New York at that time, you know, eventually more in LA, but. you know, there was some stuff going on in Chicago. there was some regional acts, regional labels, things like that. But, you know, I think he just basically saw an opportunity, to start something.And, you know, sort of in the way that if you look at, Richard Branson or Puffy or, you know, what are those types of entrepreneurs? It's almost It doesn't really matter what they get into. They find a way to make it work. and they're just always on the lookout for a new sector. That's, kind of, you know, right for some creative destruction, know, and some refreshing or some freshening, some revising, I don't know, whatever you would call it.And, you know, in the case of Berry Gordy. Kind of amazingly, when you think about music over the past half century, he looked around and he thought, well, this is actually, this is a sector that is very promising amongst all the sectors that I could possibly get into. So, that's how Motown came to pass.[00:03:36] Dan Runcie: That point about whether it's Diddy, Branson, Gordy, and I think a lot of the tech CEOs fall in this category as well. You're going to put them in any generation. And I do think that these people would have found a way to make things work. And that's the same point you're making, right? He saw an opportunity to music, but let's say he came 30 years later.It could have been another aspect. Let's say he came today, probably could have been trying to do something in AI or even figure it out, how to make AI, be transformative with his music. And I think a lot of his work, whether you think about how he built derivative work or how he had this process with artists that we'll get into so much of it taps into, okay, here's an opportunity to optimize things.Here's how we can make things work. And music just happened to be the format. He chose it.[00:04:21] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And even, you know, when you think about it, he got started sort of mid century 30 years later, he was looking into other things, getting involved in film and TV. And You know, moving the business out West, but, you know, we'll get there eventually, but, he certainly did, you know, find other ways to extend the Motown brand as time went on.[00:04:37] Dan Runcie: So he starts off, he has this record business and things go okay with that. specifically talking about the store. And that was a lot of it was connected a bit more from the family perspective, but then he ends up getting the job at Ford specifically working with that Lincoln mercury plant. And that's when he was only there for 2 years, but he then sees how the process works and the whole concept of Ford is, which is that assembly line process that Henry Ford has been famous for.He sees that and then he taps back into his opportunities with music and he's like, okay. Okay, there's an opportunity to do the same with music. So he sees this assembly line, essentially have all these parts go through the inputs. And then the output, you get this car, he wanted to be able to pull some kid off the street, bring them into the Motown and bring them into this record label facility.And then outcomes a star. And he felt like he had the ability to be able to create that type of dynamic. And it took some time to get there, but that's essentially what he did. And a lot of the creations of what we saw from Hitsville USA was that exactly.[00:05:48] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And, he'll tell you that, I've interviewed him a couple of times. Once for Forbes, once for my book, Michael Jackson Inc, where he talked a lot about that. And, you know, he really has a formula, for making a hit song. And, you know, it's sort of like the song has to have a clear beginning, middle at an end. The chorus has to have a sort of grand arc that summarizes the song every time it happens.And then there's a sort of like grand finale bridge ending thing that, brings it all together, always at the end you hear the artist shout out the song's name almost, you know, invariably one last time and you know, that's like pure marketing, right? And you think about it in those days, this great songs on, you're hearing it, but like, you know, maybe you're in the car, it's on the radio, maybe you're artist and a record player.It's not popping up on your phone. So you know what it's called when you hear Michael Jackson shout out, I want you back at the end and I want you back. what you're going to go out and buy, you know what, you're going to call in, you know, to the radio station and ask them to play. So, it's very calculated, it really works and it's proven and, you know, if it sort of seems like, gosh. You know, this is like a cliche. This is obvious. I think part of it is because he helped create this cliche, obvious thing, right? I mean, things become cliche or obvious because they're smart or necessary most of the time.So, you know, at some point it was novel and, you know, very corny, I think was part of, making that whole song structure novel. And, you know, really. When you look at how he executed it, you know, I think a modern day analog, we talked about this, you know, before on our bad boy episode, but so, you know, his role was very much like the Puffy role, or at least the early Puffy role in production. So, you know, he had a hand in songwriting and production, but, you know, mostly he figured out who he wanted to have producing his labels, songs and sort of who he wanted to be in charge of authoring that certain type of sound.So for Berry Gordy, it was a handful of, producers called the corporation, just like Puffy had the Hitmen. And, you know, then he would kind of come in and do his own little thing on top when he thought it was necessary. But, you know, in a way it kind of adds that whole assembly line aspect, right? Where, you know, that there's going to be a certain level of quality, there's going to be like a distinctive sound, whether it's a bad boy or Motown, or, you know, even going back to, you know, what a Ford car was, you know, in those days you had kind of an ideology to get.And I think that's one of the things that really set Motown apart.[00:08:08] Dan Runcie: Exactly. And I think with that too, you have him going through the process of starting this. So this record label started with an 800 with 800. That's what he had initially. And he uses that to then start Hitsville USA. So that's the location on Grand Ave in Detroit.Have you been to this museum by the way?[00:08:30] Zack Greenburg: I did. We did a special event there. One time we had the Forbes 30 under 30, Summit and we did this like, special, like one off private interview where I went there with Quavo and we sat in Motown studios, you know, where Michael Jackson and all them had recorded. and we did a little like video discussion on the state of the music business, I think it's floating around the internet somewhere, but, it's a really cool building. I mean, I think what strikes. Me the most, you know, like the first time I went in is like the fact that just a house.I mean, it really just looks like a house. the rooms are sort of like room size, you know, it's not some sprawling like, you know, I don't know, institutional type place like a lot of modern, recording studios, you know, it's just a converted house but you know, you kind of walk through each room and it's museum and everything now, so you can kind of get a feel for it. It's very different from the modern day glitz and glamour of the record business for sure.[00:09:20] Dan Runcie: Yeah, been there twice. it was really cool because just like you said, you feel like you're actually in a home and that's the vibe that the studio gives you. And I felt like the people that were the tour guides as well, they clearly knew their history in a way where it should sound obvious, but that could obviously be hit or miss with museum sometimes.So I felt like that piece of it was good. And it ties back to a few things that tap into the culture that it is. Gordy wanted to create that. I think make it work. He lived upstairs. Studio is downstairs. So he has everything there and he wanted to make this somewhere that creativity could spawn at any particular moment.So he wanted to create a 24/7. Set up where he had made sure the vending machines were always stocked. So people could stay there year, you know, day in day out. If creativity comes to you at 3 p. m. or 3 a. m. you can go right there and do what you have to do. And you could keep things moving there internally.And this is one of the things that I do think worked really well for them because. Although I think the music industry has gotten away from this, there was this era where the culture and the vibe that you could create from a label and all that continuity really helped things. So when you saw how deliberate he was from an assembly line perspective was essentially keeping his product in place and keeping all the materials in place so that it can produce outputs at any given moments to just increase the likelihood that you could have hits coming time and time again.[00:10:49] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I mean, he certainly spoke a lot about, quality control, which is, it's kind of funny, you know, given the eventual QC relationship, but, you know, I think that's a really big part of it. And when you're that hands on and, you know, in some cases you could say micromanaging, but it does enable you to really have a unified.We can also get into this, fact that at some point it can become a bit of a creative constraint for artists as they mature.[00:11:14] Dan Runcie: Right, because with quality control, there was someone on the team that listened to everything that came through Motown and they essentially picked the best. They brought it to this weekly meeting and most of the Motown artists weren't writing or producing their materials necessarily, but they were going in and you had all these artists that would essentially sing.The same exact song and then they would pick the best version that came out of that to then release the song. Sometimes they had multiple artists that would end up releasing a version. And we saw different versions of this where you had both Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye have their versions of Ain't No Mountain high enough.Granted it was a few years later in different songs, but a lot of that stems from that quality control aspect. And there's this one quote that, was here from One of the books that was written about, Berry Gordy and Motown, where they talked about quality control and they said, quote, the artists were a means to an end in a way, end quote.And that's exactly what we're talking about how the downside is that it could limit creativity, but the upside is that it gives you the opportunity to get the best polished diamond from all of the creations that come from this studio.[00:12:24] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And man, there were quite a few, right? I mean, when you look through, I mean, the heydays, Smokey Robinson, the Miracles, Diana Ross, the Supremes, Four Tops, Marvin Gaye, coming into, you know, Michael Jackson, the Jackson 5, you know, think we've talked about in our previous discussions about hip hop, you know, like sort of the staying power, of different labels and, you know, and how you can kind of keep identifying talent and keep it coming. I mean, that's quite a breadth You know, of like musical accomplishment that they've got, that you could say that Berry Gordy identified over the years.So, you know, I would really, obviously I'd put him up against any other, identify any A& R, any, you know, music mogul in the history of the business, for sure.[00:13:05] Dan Runcie: I agree. And I think the other thing that's interesting too, is This taps back into the whole process and quality management things. Berry Gordy really wanted to help shift the sound and direction of this label because at the time, black music and music that was made by black artists was quite segmented where people didn't feel like it could reach beyond a certain audience.And he experienced some of this himself. One of the reasons that his record stores closed was because he was focused primarily on jazz music. At the time, even Black folks weren't really into jazz at that particular moment. So he just didn't have the market to be able to continue this. So I think that helps Chase Motower.He says, okay, I want the music that's able to be listened to by everyone. I want Black people to ride with it. I want white people. I want anyone in America to be able to ride with the same way that people would listen to the Beach Boys. And he had a few more interesting things that were part of this process.One, everyone had an etiquette coach. And these are things that we're teaching them, essentially, how you have black people essentially speak to white people. Granted, I think there's a lot of that that is problematic. That probably wouldn't fly into the same ways today, just given some of the language there.but then additionally, he also had white salesmen that were essentially the ones that were promoting the records in different areas, going to different radio stations. And he would go as far to insert in records that he's promoting to not even show the artist on the cover because he wanted the record to reach.And he didn't want people to necessarily immediately see or relate it to a black artist, which I thought was interesting, but lined up with a lot of these things. So, even though some of the choices clearly were problematic, it probably wouldn't fly at the same way today. That's how he was about process and wanting to essentially be able to sell this talent anywhere in the country.[00:15:01] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, and it's especially remarkable when you sort think of the cultural context of, you know, of when this is all happening in the 60s. You know, I mean, this is a time of great polarization and social change and, you know, really like turmoil, in a lot of ways, disunity, but, what Berry Gordy created with Motown and sort of the Motown genre, which I think really like more than any label has become synonymous like a genre, you know, beyond just sort of like the name of label itself, you say Motown music, and you're talking about like a genre, as much as you're talking about a label, the fact that you'd be able to sort of create that it like in the 60s, even the late 60s, when things were really why we think we're polarized now.I mean, the late sixties, oh my gosh. Like what a testament to the sort of the sound that he created, which, you know, just like bridged all these divides and, you know, you obviously still go to any wedding, black, white, you know, at anything. And, you're gonna hear Motown all over the place.So I think that kind of goes back to what he created, you know, even at the time. being so accessible to so many different audiences and, you know, one of the things he told me, when I interviewed him, he said that, Martin Luther King came to see him, in Detroit, at the peak of the civil rights movement.And apparently, according to Gary Gordy, MLK said, he said, what I'm trying to do politically and intellectually, you're doing with your music. I love the feeling people get when they hear your music. And so maybe we can make a deal. And they made a deal to actually put out some of MLK's greatest speeches.They put out three albums on Motown and Gordy kind of summed it up by saying, if you do the right thing will come to you. So I thought that was such a cool. Little nugget that people don't necessarily realize. and, you know, I think people don't, think of Berry Gordy as like avant garde, you know, civil rights activist or anything, but, he kind of approached it in his own way, which was to make this music that could, you know, that could really bring people together.They could also get black culture, you know, into the mainstream us culture, at the same time. And, you know, I mean, we saw that, you know, decades later with hip hop, but. Berry Gordy, you know, he made that blueprint, you know, very, very, very early on.[00:17:03] Dan Runcie: It's a great story because I think it highlights the complexity and that people just aren't in these corners. And as you mentioned, Berry Gordy wasn't known for his civil rights activism. In many ways, people would often point to things that he may have shied away from, where I remember, especially in the 70s when you started to hear a bit more of a pacifist and things like that, there was a push and people wanted Motown to lead more into this and he necessarily wasn't as eager at the time and I remember even Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, one of the biggest records that was ever made.There was tension leading up to that because Gordy was like, wait, what is this? you want to do this? Like, what are we doing here? And then it eventually gets made. And then you see how I feel like every time that one of these publications has one of the greatest songs ever made, I'm sure it's come up on number one, or at least on several, one of these.So you see that, and you've seen other areas where he clearly has leaned into this, but I do think that his. Place in his role at that time, often highlighted some of that ongoing tension that we've seen from black leaders over the years about people want progress, but what's the best way to agree with this?And you date back to some of the more public debates between folks like Booker T. Washington and W. E. B. Dubois about what is the best way for black progress and group economics and things like that. And I feel like Berry Gordy clearly was on a Particular side of that, that not everyone may have agreed with, but he clearly still wanted to be able to help progress things in a particular way.So he's a very fascinating figure as we look at this progression, especially in the 20th century.[00:18:42] Zack Greenburg: Well, that's right. And, you know, I think there's a reason you see him put out MLK speeches. I don't, think he put up Malcolm X's speeches, you know, but that was just sort of his approach, right? He was more Martin than Malcolm.And, you know, obviously you could speak to the merits of either method, but, Berry Gordon definitely, had his preference there.[00:18:59] Dan Runcie: The other thing that I want to talk about, you mentioned it earlier, but the talent and the breadth of talent that was in this place is such a constraint and such a valuable time.It's one of those things where just imagine walking through on a, some day in, let's say 1964, you're just walking through Motown and all of the names that you could just see there making music on a Wednesday afternoon. It's crazy to think of the names and also how he found folks because. Look at Smokey Robinson and Smokey Robinson, the miracles essentially end up releasing shop around, which I do think ends up becoming the first true hit that, or the first, hit single that comes from Motown.He found that he found Smokey on a street corner performing almost, and in many ways, it feels similar to. What we see decades later with Sylvia Robinson driving around the New Jersey tri state area, finding hip hop artists for Sugar Hill Gang. This is how these early entrepreneurs did it. They were the talent development.They saw things and granted it was a much less crowded market. So the people that were pushing music onto folks had a little bit easier time breaking through, but it was still tough, especially at the time. And he was able to make it work in that way, which was, cool.[00:20:13] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, he actually did. And, you know, of course, like the one group that we haven't talked about too much yet is Jackson and sort of the way that, different groups were signed in those days, you know, they're all the stories about, well, you hear, you see somebody busking and you sign them and this and that.And, sort of some of the stories, though, if you talk to a lot of different people, you get, you talk to 3 people, you get 3 different stories. Right? So, I think for my book on MJ, I talked to. His dad, I talked to Berry Gordy and I talked to the guy who signed them to this little record company called Steel Town in Gary, Indiana.And they all had three different versions of, you know, how it went down, right? And so, there's that old saying, basically that the winners get to write history and, you know, Berry Gordy won. So, you know, whether his version is a hundred percent, accurate or not, that's kind of the version that, you know, we tend to hear I think his version is usually correct, but there's definitely some, you know, embellishment or some showmanship from time to time.So, you know, I think, for example, with the Jackson 5, Berry Gordy decided to put out, I think it was their first album as Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 and, you know, she had this little thing where she's like, I discovered this group from Gary, Indiana and like blah, blah, blah, and that wasn't really how it happened at all.And it was really, you know, depending on who you ask, but I think what happened is Suzanne DePasse, who was one of Berry Gordy's lieutenants, had discovered them, and I think it was, there's another band who heard them, like sent them along to Suzanne DePasse that like, she kind of did the legwork for Berry Gordy.And it was like many times, many. Kind of connections later that Diana Ross, you know, became connected, to the group. but, you know, it's such a better story, right? Like Diana Ross has found these kids from, from the Midwest and, you know, bringing them out, onto Motown. So. I always think that's, kind of funny how, the stories end up getting presented and, you know, when you hear it from everybody else involved, I mean, and Diana Ross, of course, did become, really instrumental and especially Michael's life, as time went on, moved to LA and I think she, he actually lived with her for a little while while they were, you know, making the move and all this stuff, but, you know, it, didn't exactly start out that way.[00:22:18] Dan Runcie: Right. And the Jackson 5 is interesting because they, in many ways were the last group that came through in the heyday of Motown because the heyday we're really talking about is that 50 to 60s run that we've been talking about with a lot of the groups and the artists that we mentioned, especially young Marvin Gaye, young Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross and the Supremes.And then Jackson 5 comes along. But they come along towards the end of the decade. And just for some context setting, in 1968, Motown is doing 30 million in revenue. And they at one point had a 65% hit rate on the songs that they released in terms of actually being able to chart. So the highs were quite high and they were, killing it.The thing is, though, in the early 70s, this is where things start to shift a little bit, because at this point, Berry has his eyes set much bigger, and he wants to move beyond things in Detroit, because of course he was in the Hitsville, U.S.A. house, solely, after the riots that happened and there was some damage there, they ended up expanding things closer.they ended up expanding further in Detroit to just get a bigger size studio there as well. But then, he eventually wants to go to Hollywood so that he could get more into film. He wants to get into production for plays. He wants to bring these artists on the big screen. And it makes sense. We see why this is a huge medium.You saw how much, popular this talent is. And if you can get people to see them and buy into this, visual image that he's clearly curated, no different than we saw someone like Diddy decades later curating things, he wanted to do that. And I think that in many ways, this was one of those big challenges that any leader can have.Do you stay with the thing that's working really well? Or do you try to expand? And when you do expand, how do you find out? How do you make sure that you have the best talent around you? How do you make sure that you're well equipped? And I think that bowtie really started to strain because as things started to grow for the label, a lot of the artists started to feel like they were getting neglected because of these broader ambitions.And that in many ways, now we're dating 50 plus years ago to like 1972 timeframe. That's when a lot of ways was the beginning of the end, at least in terms of the Motown that a lot of people grew up with and knew.[00:24:41] Zack Greenburg: I think so for sure. And, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, you have to seek the next thing, right? I mean, you don't want to stagnate and you kind of have to take the risk and go for the next big thing and maybe you succeed and maybe you don't, and I think that's at least the way we've been conditioned to think. On the other hand, there could be an argument for like, we don't need to have this growth at all costs mindset as a society, you know, what's wrong with having a really awesome business that's just like constantly, you know, successful has happy employees, you know, that kind of thing. But, I guess that's, you know, this is, you know, Trapital not, you know, Trapsocialism, I dunno, we're talking within a certain realm of, you know, of economic, styles and systems.So that's what's gotta happen. And that's what Berry Gordy decided to do, you know, by moving everything to LA but we talked, a while ago about John McClain, and his role in kind of in, in the past few decades as an executive. He's somebody who rarely talks, but somebody interviewed him at some point.He said that he thought that moving to LA was, kind of the beginning of the end for Motown, because it, kind of changed Motown from being a trendsetter to being a trend follower. And, I think I agree with that. And, you know, that's not to say that there wasn't additional success, especially, you know, beyond the recorded music business that occurred. And that moving to LA kind of, you know, like supercharged some of that, but yeah, you know, I mean, I think when Motown was in the Motor City, in its namesake place, like, You know, it was sort of like, I don't say the only game in town cause there were other labels, but I think it was sort of, the main game in town and, being in a place that, you know, wasn't sort of the epicenter of the music business allowed it to have kind of its own unique style and not sort of be influenced as much by what else was going on.And, you know, don't forget in those days, it wasn't like everything was, you know, it wasn't like we were all tuning into the same social media channels. you know, we weren't even like really tuned into cable TV or anything like that, you know, there wasn't the same kind of like national culture that there is today that, you know, where trends just kind of like fly across in a second. And things did kind of take time to move from one place to the other. throughout the country. So, you know, there was like a certain regionalism to it that I think set Motown apart and, you know, maybe you lose a little bit, you know, once you're out in LA, but, you know, certainly around that time, you really start to see some of the artists who wanted more creative freedom, leaving, you know, some others pushing back, you know, I think even within, a few years of moving to LA, the Jackson 5, we're kind of, having some issues with Motown and in terms of, you know, can we make some of our own types of music? You know, do we really have to stick to quite the assembly line? So, yeah, I do think it was a mixed bag for Berry Gordy to head west.[00:27:20] Dan Runcie: And this is where things really started to struggle because a lot of what worked for Berry Gordy was so perfect for. The Hitsville USA West Grand Ave mentality of building everything there and not to say that he was only an early stage founder that couldn't necessarily progress. But I think a lot of the processes he had were more fit for that era. So naturally, you see the growing success of the Jackson 5 and Michael is no longer 9 years old.He is at this point now a full on teenager, but unfortunately, it just didn't quite. Progress in a few things, as you mentioned, you wanted more, they wanted more creative control. They also wanted to have a bit more ownership. There were disputes about royalties. And I remember reading something that said that the Jackson 5 had calculated how much they got.And it was only a 2.3% stake of how much revenue was either coming through or would be coming through in the future. And they see this and they're like, okay, well how can we see our opportunity to get more of that? So then they leave for Epic. And then you also saw a handful of artists at this point were already on their ways out and things were definitely starting to look a little bit more bleak because by the time you get to the end of the seventies, the beginning of 1980s, The music industry was already, granted things are cyclical, but they were starting to sour a bit on black music.This was the end of disco and people wanted nothing to do with that genre. And even though Motown wasn't disco necessarily, there was vibes of the types of artists they were trying to naturally capture in the 70s. So then that had all of black music taking a hit in a lot of ways and there were groups like the barge and others that I think they tried to make work. Obviously, I think Stevie Wonder was a mainstay during all this and that worked out really well for them, but he was really just 1 mainstay. You did have Marvin Gaye, but again, still, it just wasn't necessarily. The same, and I think that they definitely started to struggle even more at that particular moment.And even as early as the 80s, you start to see more of that narrative that honestly, you still hear today about recapturing that Motown magic or recapturing that Motown journey. People have been saying this now for 40 years.[00:29:40] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And I think one thing that people forget is that even though the Jackson 5 moved on to Epic, you know, and that's where MJ ended up, you know, Epic and CBS, and, that's where MJ ended up launching a solo career, people forget that Jermaine actually stayed at Motown initially. He had married Berry Gordy's daughter and, you know, they had this whole wedding with like, you know, 150 white doves were released and, you know, they had this, you know, kind of fairytale situation. And apparently, Berry said to Jermaine, like, Hey, you can go with your brothers and stay with me, whatever you want.And, you know, knowing Berry, I think he maybe didn't put it that delicately or, you know, that was kind of a huge break from Motown because you know, he had really taken the Jackson 5 under his wing. They used to have, Gordy versus Jackson family, baseball games. Michael Jackson would play catcher. It was very So, you know, I think Tito was like the big power hitter, is what I heard. but yeah, for, you know, I mean, these were two families that were really intricately linked. And I think ultimately it kind of came down to, you know, there was some creative control issues, but, you know, Joe Jackson was, pretty controlling, Berry Gordy was pretty controlling and at some point, you know, it just, I think it became impossible for them to coexist.And so, Joe kind of guided them over to Epic to get that big deal, but, you know, Jermaine. It wasn't obvious that Michael was going to be, you know, by far the superstar of all the Jacksons. And, you know, Jermaine did seem at the time to be like the one who had the most promising solo career, or at least it was, you know, pretty close.And, you know, he never really found his niche is a solo act and eventually it would go on to get back every night with his brothers and go on tours and that sort of thing.[00:31:22] Dan Runcie: I think that's a good distinction because people will often point to and think about what are the big nine and then he drops off the wall. This isn't what happened. There's a pretty big difference between those few years. No difference than anyone where naturally there's a difference between a 15 year, but there were others that experienced.So many of the artists that ended up leaving at that particular year old artist and a 19 year old artist. You're a completely different person at that point. And that's exactly what we ended up seeing with Michael. So missed opportunity for sure missed opportunities that Motown had, we'll get to miss opportunities in a minute, but you often hear people talk about them not being able to keep Michael, but to your point, the Jackson 5 leaving Motown in 1975, 76, isn't the same as.Them leaving in 1970 time ended up having greater,success once they were able to have a bit of freedom after leaving Motown, which was a bit unfortunate because obviously, I think it would have been great to see them continue that success under Berry Gordy's umbrella and continue to see them grow.But not everyone is going to be Stevie Wonder. Not everyone is there to say, Hey, I'm with you until the end. And I'm going to be riding with you during this entire journey. It just doesn't work that way. People have careers. No different. You see them today where people see a bigger opportunity and the grass is greener.They want to take advantage of that, especially if they don't feel like they are being put in the best position to thrive. So in the 80s, Motown is now officially in its transition recovery mode, trying to recapture what was there and we see a few things happen.So they start leading in on debarge. And a lot of people, DeBarge did have a pretty big hit with Rhythm of the Night, but I do think that they tried to make the DeBarge family replicate some of this Jackson family, where you had El DeBarge, and you had all of these others, but it just didn't quite click, at least in a mainstream way to that perspective, but then you did have Lionel Richie, who did end up having a pretty big career, especially with everything he had done since the, Commodores and, but then you also had Berry Gordy's son that they were also trying to work into the mix, who performed under the name Rockwell, who had had that song, somebody's watching me that Michael had sung the hook on.So you had a few things there, but just didn't exactly click because again, it's stuck in two models. Berry wanted to continue to have complete control over it. And the artists just didn't want that anymore. I think that worked when you were literally giving artists. No giving artists in a region of the country like Detroit a platform and opportunity, but they had no other options.But now they had leverage. Now they could go talk to mca Now they could go talk to CBS Epic and some of these other labels. So Berry's mentality just didn't work as much. And then by 1988 is when we see him transition on from the label, at least as the CEO level. And then we start to see the new blood come in to run the record label.[00:34:30] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I mean, I think it is important to note that, you know, although you could characterize the 80s as sort of like musical decline era for Motown, you know, in the way that many artists are entrepreneurs, like, seem to be in a period of delays over some decade or whatever, they actually get much richer during that period of malaise, because what they had built before was so good.And there's still kind of like, they're finally cashing in on it, whereas maybe they didn't cash in on it when it first happened. But like, enough of the sort of like older, wealthier decision makers who can pay them more are like, finally getting hip to the fact that, you know, this is a big deal.So, I would definitely think about Motown that context and that, you know, when Berry was able to sell, you know, a huge chunk, of the company kind of like step back from it, that was after like a a period of time when Motown was not as hot as it had been.But you had things going on, like Motown 25 in 1983, that special. Put together, where MJ came back and reunited, with his brothers and the whole Motown crew and he had, you know, all these other artists, but that was actually the first time I think that MJ moonwalked, you know, sort of in public, like you know, he sort of like the popular debut of the moonwalk and it just really kind of, Created, so much buzz around that, that then kind of rubbed off on Motown and didn't really matter whether he wasn't on Motown anymore, but it just kind of gave a little more shine to the label and gave it sort of like, a relevance, I think that helped kind of carry through to the end of the 80s and helped get Berry Gordy, this really big payday.So, I wouldn't discount like You know, I don't know the sort of like delayed reaction that sort of the half life of fame or whatever you want to call it. But, there were still some of these moments that were created, that kept paying dividends as the time went on. I think[00:36:13] Dan Runcie: That's a fair point because he also sold at this smart time when right as we're seeing in this current era that we're recording, it's a very hot time for music asset transactions as were the late 80s and early 90s too. That's when you saw Geffen do many of the deals that he had done and Gordy. Did the same where I believe he made 61 million from the sale, or at least his portion of the sale in 1988, which is huge.You didn't see people, especially black business owners that fully owned everything being able to cash out at that level. So that's a good point. I'm glad that you mentioned that. And with this is when we start to see the transition of leadership. And we start to see a few things that do ring true.Where the first person that takes over is Gerald Busby, who was leading black music at MCA at the time. And even though Motown had had a bit of its malaise in the 1980s, MCA did not, in many ways, it was seen as the leader in black music. And Bubsy was able to. Have quite a good amount of success there with all of the work that he had done.the thing is though, he had started to run into some issues because he was in this weird dynamic where this company, Polygram had owned part of the label, as did Boston Ventures, his private equity group, and Bubsy was at odds with the folks at Boston Ventures about. some creative control. And he had this quote where he says he'd rather quit Motown president than see the label become a cash cow for a huge corporation trafficking off of nostalgia.And that was a quote that was said back in the 90s just thinking about how. Similar, some of those quotes now come to today. And this was someone who was largely credited from helping to say blast black music from that disco era. But unfortunately, I think a lot of those tensions that he had had, at the time just made life a little bit more difficult for him at Motown.So he eventually we Left. And while he was there, he was able to at least get a few things under. Like he was the one that had brought in voice to men. He had Queen Latifah there. He had Johnny Gill, who was another artist at the time that was quite popular, but maybe hadn't necessarily lived on in the way.And his dreams were, he wanted to have Motown cafes, the same way you had hard rock cafes. He wanted to have the young acts going and touring around at different places to recreate that vibe. And this is something that we'll get into. I think we see time and time again, where these leaders have all these dreams and visions for what they see.Motown can be, but because of the powers that be because of other things, they just can't quite get there to make it happen.[00:38:51] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think that one of the things that set Motown apart early on, you know, as sets many startups apart early on, and many record companies are early on is that they were independent and they could do whatever they wanted.And, you know, Berry Gordy was, sort of like the unquestioned leader and, you know, things kind of, in the way that things kind of get done, let's say more efficiently, if not, more equitably in dictatorships, like he could just get shit done, move things around, have it happen immediately. And so when you started to have, you know, these corporate parents, parent companies, you know, you'd have to go through all these layers of approval to do anything.And, kind of like stop being able to be agile. and I think that's especially important in the music business when, you know, you have to. Not be reactive, but proactive, right? You have to be ahead of things. So, you know, if you're getting to a point where you're having to wait on approvals and things like that, you've already lost because you should have been out in front to begin with.[00:39:48] Dan Runcie: And this is something that I think plagued Motown time and time again, because Gordy didn't necessarily operate in this way. He had so many people that wanted to replicate what he did, but they didn't have the same parameters and the same leeway to make those decisions. As you mentioned, they're now working for corporations that now have their own vested interest.And to be frank, one of the tensions that we see often in music is that these brazen, bold leaders want to be able to take big swings and do things that are innovative and off the cuff. And these corporations are hard set pressed on efficiency. They don't want to see overspending. They don't want to see over commitments, or they want to be able to feel like this is being run in a strategic way.This is something that in the Interscope episode that we talked about, Jimmy Iveen struggled with this as well, even as recently as his tenure with Apple music. But this is one of those frequent tensions that happens with music executives. And we saw that continue with the person that replace Busby, which is Andre Harrell.We talked about him a bit in the Bad Boy episode, but Andre, of course, at this time was coming fresh off of Uptown Records where he was working in collaboration with MCA and he was able to build a little bit of his own fiefdom there where granted he still had people he had to answer to, but I think he had a pretty good relationship with the folks at MCA up until the end there.Then he goes to Motown and he sees this opportunity. And there's a few things that stick out about this because. As early as a year ago, he was starting to get rumored as to be the next person to then take over. But then he gets 250k as an initial announcement. He takes out this full page ad, New York Times.And then he has this ad that essentially says from Uptown to Motown, it's on. And it's him sitting in the back of the chair and you see a sweatshirt in the back. And people hated it. People grilled him. The way that they talked about him, the trades and even Russell Simmons and others coming in and giving him shit about it.He had pretty verbal flight fights with Clarence Avon, who was pretty powerful at the time. And Clarence even said he had swung on him at one particular point and was quite critical of him as well. There's this one quote that I think was really funny here, where this was from the Netflix documentary that was, The Black Godfather, which was about Clarence Avon.And, or actually, no, this is before this summer variety interview, but they talked about this as well. The doc, Clarence says, Andre and I didn't get along. And then he pointed to an image of the Motown boy band, 98 degrees. And Avon says, Andre wanted to send these white boys to Harlem to make them sound black.And I was like, you're out of your fucking mind. And it's a funny quote, because I do think that 98 degrees. Maybe didn't exactly have as many hits as they probably would have thought, but in Andre Harrell's defense, and sadly, but true, the mentality wasn't necessarily wrong because of the 90s, the most successful Motown act that you had was Boyz II Men, and we saw at the end of the decade that, what's that guy's name, the con artist that had the boy bands, Lou Pearlman, like, he literally modeled Backstreet Boys and NSYNC after How can I find white boys to men and make them see modern contemporary and make this happen?And that's how he was able to have success there. And that was before, what's his name? That was before Andre Harrell was really getting going. So he saw where things were going. But it just didn't click at the time. It just wasn't right. And obviously 90 degrees ends up having some decent success, but that's well after Andre Harrell had left the label.So he ended up leaving and the press was not kind to him. Literally headlines were. Andre Harrell gets fired from LA Times it's a type of headline that we probably don't see now when record label execs get fired in the same way. I think the industry is much more controlled in its PR sometimes to a fault, but it was very interesting to see that, come through. And another interesting quote from that, Lucian Grange had called the Andre Harrell at Motown relationship, an organ rejection. In terms of the relationship there.[00:43:56] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, no, I mean, and it's kind of interesting if you think about, you know, around that same time. What was going on in the music business, what would have been a great fit at Motown that didn't happen, would have been to sign Eminem, right? I mean, rather than try to do it with 98 degrees, if you really want to go and sort of like figure out what the kids are listening to, and do the thing where you have a white guy making black music, like. Holy shit. There's Eminem from Detroit, you know, doing his thing. But, you know, I think it took different kind of Andre to pull that one off.So, you know, in a way well played, you know, I mean, in a way it was like Andre was maybe Andre Harrell was taking some risks, but he wasn't taking quite enough. Like, he wasn't going far enough. He wasn't going way out enough on a limb. So, if you were really going to try to read that Motown, then that then go all the way at the same time, though, I would argue.I mean, if you look back, it's sort of like what worked with Motown and what did it, I think one of Motown's greatest attributes is also a limiting factor. And that's the thing we talked about before it, it's a label, but it's also a genre. And so if you have Motown making hip hop, it's like, wait a minute this isn't Motown. Like this isn't the genre of Motown. Like this is not the thing that I heard at my aunt's wedding, you know, this is something different. So, I think that they got kind of caught in between and I know that they've done all this stuff in hip hop over the years and, whatever, but it still doesn't feel like quite a fit because Motown, I mean that, you know, Motown was Motown, Motown wasn't hip hop and, you know, maybe if it had started getting into hip hop in the early days of hip hop.you know, it would have felt a little bit different about that, but, you know, hip hop is Def Jam, hip hop is is Roc-A-Fella hip hop is Bad Boy, and I just, you know, for all the efforts that Motown has made to get into hip hop, I think, it, has had a hard time, you know, fully sticking in the way that it would need to for Motown to replicate its, early success.[00:45:51] Dan Runcie: And one of the things that I think that a lot of these post Berry Gordy leaders struggled with was... As you mentioned, yeah, with Andre Harrell or others, there was the desire and opportunity to be able to do more, but the combination of the corporate structures in place that just didn't give them the same freedom that a Berry Gordy himself would have had.And then secondly. The business structure of how Motown itself as a company was set up didn't necessarily allow that because even things like radio or promotion and things like that, they still relied on other labels under the corporate umbrella, even to this day to get some of those things in place.So it really wasn't. Given the same freedom, even though their name, especially in the late 90s early two thousands was used in, especially back then it was the whole universal Republic Motown group or whatever the amalgamation was at the time. It really wasn't given the same freedom as some of those other record labels were.And I think we saw those challenges come in from time with some of the other leaders as well, because. Afterward, after, Harrell left, you had George Jackson who was there, felt like a bit more interim there for a couple of years. And then you had Kedar Mazenberg who was there late 90s early 2000.And that was a bit more than Neo soul vibe. You had India, Ari and a few others, but he has this quote that he gave to the independent, 2000 where he says, but we're not going to dominate the pop charts. Like we used to, how can we, there are too many other companies out there for that. So please don't compare it to the Motown of yesteryear.This is someone that is in the leadership role saying that exact quote. like How do you get past that? And then he talks again. I think they made a comparison to Def Jam where he said, you know, Def Jam, it took 10, 20 years to get to this established guidance, the way that you did with someone like a Lyor Cohen.And you essentially had that with Berry Gordy. But again, Lior was doing this before Def Jam ended up, you know, becoming under the whole Island Def Jam group and everything happened there. After that, you have Sylvia Roan, who was rising up the ranks herself. Still one of the most successful Black women in media and music right now.She's currently at Epic, but she had her time at Motown as well. And I'm going to get into her because I have something I want to say for missed opportunities there. And then you get more recently to the era of Ethiopia Habtamirian, who was there from 2011. Up until 2022, and she's 1 of those that I do feel like was put in a pretty hard spot because on 1 hand, she was able to essentially double the market share.Thanks in part to the partnership that she had made with hip hop through quality control to be able to help. them succeed And this is especially when the Migos are first starting to pop off, and then that transitions into the success of artists like Lil Yachty and Lil Baby and City Girls and others. But I think that also some of the overspending and things like that were quite critiqued.And especially from a PR perspective, the same way I was mentioning earlier when. Andre Harrell's challenges were bright front and center for the entire industry to read. Ethiopia's necessarily weren't in the same way. And even in some of the aspects of her leaving, the media had they called it a bit more reflective of, oh, Ethiopia has chosen to step down.When, yes, that's true, but there was also a pretty large severance package from Lucian and others at UMG. And again, I don't think she was necessarily given as much leadership either, because Motown was kind of, and still is kind of under capital, but now they've essentially moved it back. They had announced that she was solely the CEO back in 2021, but that was a pretty short lived.And to be honest, it felt like. Yeah. 1 of those announcements that the industry made in this, like, post George Floyd era to try to highlight and support black CEOs, which was great to see, but she's someone that's talented. You don't want to see her just become a tokenized person to have this. So, even though, like any CEO, I think there was things you could point out that she probably could have done differently.Still wasn't given the most leeway to begin with it. Now we're back in this point where what is Motown who's leading Motown. It's essentially the subsidiary under capital, but it's now a brand. And who knows where things are going to be. And it's quite unfortunate, but given everything that we've said up into this point, it also, isn't that surprising just given the dynamic.[00:50:21] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think, you know, like you mentioned the the partnership with quality control. I mean, I think. That was a smart way to get more involved in hip hop because that was a brand that did have roots in hip hop more that, kind of resonated. and so when you sort of like, build as a partnership and look at it that way, it seems a little more credible than like,you know, Motown is doing hip hop now. so it's too bad that, you know, things kind of turned out the way they did, but, it's an interesting asset, right? I mean, it's a brand that has a lot of value. But it's not exactly clear, you know, how to sort of monetize it. And I think with Motown right now, it's like, it's probably about more, than the music, right?Like that's maybe where most of the monetization opportunity would be, whether it's, you know, Motown branded, you know, I don't know, films and, you know, I don't know, products, whatever the case may be. It resonates more, I think, than it does, as a record label. And people don't care so much about record labels anymore.Like we've talked about this, you know, in prior episodes, but it's not the same. You're not going to put on your record on a record player and see that big Motown logo on it, you're having something pop up your ear. And there, there's no visual, like, you don't know whether it's on Motown or Def Jam or Universal or Sony or, and you don't probably don't care.Right. I mean, and I think as things have kind of blurred together, genres are blurring together, you know, different, labels are gobbling each other up over the years, you know, people have just kind of like lost track and, you know, sort of like the idea of a label just isn't as important anymore.So, I do think that it's. a valuable piece of IP and, you know, there's things to do with it still. But, you know, I think, Berry Gordy certainly like squeezed, you know, all he could out of it and, did a great job of sort of ultimately profiting off of what it was that he built.[00:52:04] Dan Runcie: Right. Because what you have right now is this brand where they do have Motown the musical, which I do think has been pretty successful, both in the US and in Europe and elsewhere that it's traveled. but that's it. I mean, quality control partnership doesn't exist in the same way since they've been now bought by hive.Hopefully, Ethiopia and those folks were able to at least retain some type of revenue for helping to set the framework to make that deal possible, but we'll see I, where I landed with this is that. The way to quote unquote, I don't want to say save Motown because that can just seems like such a blanket statement, but if you were trying to improve it from its current inevitable state, it would be finding a way to spin off the asset and the catalog from Universal and having it be in the hands of someone else who can make it work.The challenge is Universal isn't going to want to give that asset up. That's one of their most valuable back catalogs that they have. So. I was thinking through it in my mind, the same way that you have someone like a Tyler Perry, who are these modern moguls that have a bit of that Berry Gordy vibe to them.The way that Tyler Perry is, we'll see whether or not he ends up buying BET, but could that same mentality be applied to a record label? And then with that, you're able to then build up your own promotion. You're able to build up your own talent, and then you take things in a slightly different way. I still don't think that guarantees success, but at least you shake things up in a particular way and you still give it that black ownership mentality.You give it a bit more of that independence and the autonomy and you could potentially see what happens because. We all know what the continued fate is as a legacy entity of a catalog holder that it would be under the UMG umbrella.[00:53:50] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, a hundred percent. Totally agree.[00:53:52] Dan Runcie: And with that, I think it would be a good time to dig into some of these categories here. So what do you think is the biggest, this will may be obvious, but what do you think is the biggest signing that they've done or that Motown ever did?[00:54:04] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I think I'd go with the Jackson 5 I mean, you know, although Motown did not ultimately profit off of MJ's solo career, in the way that it would have if it had retained him for a solo career, Motown did profit off of the association as he became the biggest musical star, but basically entertainer of any kind in the world.and, you know, going back to the Motown 25 moment, you know, other kinds of associations. So I would say like good process. Not really a bad outcome, but like signing the Jackson 5 could have been the path to also signing Michael Jackson as a solo artist. And then, you know, just because that didn't work out in the end, does it mean that that wasn't a huge signing for them?[00:54:47] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I was going to say Jackson 5 or Stevie Wonder, which is the one that I had and I say him because of the longevity because even when times were rough, Stevie Wonder still had arguably his best decade in the 70s But, he had a number of them that were there, especially in the seventies. I think that was his strongest run and he stayed through. And I think that in a lot of ways helped bridge the gap during some of those low moments when other artists did come and went. Did come and go. So that was the one I had there.What do you have as the best business move?[00:55:18] Zack Greenburg: Well, okay. This is something we haven't talked about and maybe we should talk about it but more, but here we are, we'll talk about it more now. I think it was Berry Gordy setting up, his publishing company. So, I mean, maybe that's cheating a little bit because it was outside of, Motown itself but of He set up Joe bet, publishing, you know, pretty early on. And he didn't realize, you know, his big payday for it until later 1997, but he sold it for 132 million for just for half of it. so the EMI, and then he sold another 30% for I think 109 million. And then he sold the rest of it for, something like 80 million in, what was that?It was like 2004. So, you know, we're talking like over a quarter billion dollars and that's not inflation adjusted. you know, for the publishing and that, you know, that dwarfed whatever he got for Motown itself. So, and, you know, think about if he held onto it until, the recent publishing Bonanza, I mean, I mean, it could have been close to a billion dollar catalog, right?I mean, you know, there's nothing, really like it out there. So. He was always very smart about ownership and I think Michael Jackson knew that and, you know, studied him as a kid growing up. And that's kind of what convinced Michael to want to own his own work, and also in the Beatles work, which then became the basis of Sony ATV.And that was another massive catalog. So, yeah, I think the publishing side of it definitely gets overlooked and, you know, was ultimately the most, financially valuable part. But, even though it was sort of a separate. Company, you know, I would argue it, for sure it wouldn't have happened without Motown happening.[00:56:51] Dan Runcie: That's a great one. And I'm glad you mentioned that. Cause definitely could get overlooked and doesn't get talked enough about in this whole business. I think publishing in general is something that people don't understand. And so they just don't, dig into it, but he wrote it. I mean, he owned everything.And obviously when you own the value. When you own something that valuable, it has its assets. And I think why publishing continues to be so valuable in the industry i

"My Brother's A Basehead” is a true story. Posdnous from De La Soul had an older brother who had a crack addiction and it was very damaging for the whole family. For Pos and his parents, crack was literally in the house just as it was in many houses and many families during the crack era. Crack decimated many families and De La Soul made one of the most powerful songs about all that. In this episode we talk about how crack destroyed families and what went into the making of "My Brother's A Basehead.” We talk to Prince Paul, De La Soul's producer who's sometimes called the 4th member of the group. We also talk about a very different song about crack users, Public Enemy's Night of the Living Baseheads, which looked down on people who used crack while one of the members of PE was a crack addict. PE's producer Hank Shocklee joins us for that.     Guests: Prince Paul, Producer - De La Soul is Dead Hank Shocklee, Producer - Public Enemy Credits: De La Soul - My Brothers a Basehead Writer: Posdnuos, Trugoy the Dove, Prince Paul, Maseo, Clint Ballard Jr. & Robby Krieger Label: Tommy Boy Records Publisher: Tee Girl Music, MCA Music, Shapiro Bernstein & Doors Music Co. Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5 - The Message  Writer: Clifton ‘'Jiggs'' Chase, Sylvia Robinson, Duke Bootee & Grandmaster Melle Mel Label: Sugar Hill Records Publisher: Sugar Hill Records   De La Soul - Me Myself and I Writer: Posdnuos, Trugoy the Dove, Prince Paul, Maseo, George Clinton & Philippe Wynne  Label: Tommy Boy Records Publisher: Birdsong Edwin Music Pub, Bridgeport Music Inc, Daisy Age Music, Warner-Tamerlane Publishing Co   De La Soul - Potholes on My Lawn Writer: P. Huston, K. Mercer, D. Jolicoeur, V. Mason Label: Tommy Boy Records Publisher: Tommy Boy Music   Public Enemy - Night of the Living Baseheads Writer: Chuck D, Eric Sadler & Hank Shocklee Label: Def Jam Recordings Publisher: Def American Songs Inc, Reach Global Songs, Shocklee Music, Songs Of Reach Music, Terrordome Music Publishing Llc, Your Mother S Music Inc Crack User in the 80's epic interview, EurointheCut What is the Drug War? With Jay-Z & Molly Crabapple, Drug Policy Alliance Lawn Order, 99 Percent Invisible Toure: Why I Quit, Touré Speaking Freely: Chuck D, Freedom Forum Malcolm X's Fiery Speech Addressing Police Brutality, Smithsonian Channel  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When we think of hip hop we normally think of all of the male pioneers. This time we pay attention to the ladies. Rapper's Delight: https://youtu.be/rKTUAESacQM The Message: https://youtu.be/PobrSpMwKk4 Follow me at: https://facebook.com/couponqueenpin001/ Website: https://couponqueenpin.com Email: cqp@couponqueenpin.com Instagram: @couponqueenpin001 Twitter: @couponqueenpin #podcasting #spotify #podcastersofinstagram #podcastlife #podcaster #youtube #radio #womenshistory #love #life #itunes #podcasters #music #applepodcasts #it #podcastshow #interview #hiphop #newpodcast #motivation #spotifypodcast #applepodcast #television #couponqueenpin --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/cqpmoments/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/cqpmoments/support

Auch in diesem Jahr gibt es passend zum internationalen Frauentag wieder eine Spezialfolge unserer SWR1-Meilensteine. SWR1-Musikredakteurin Katharina Heinius und Sängerin Luci van Org sprechen in dieser Folge über fünf Frauen, die die Musikgeschichte auf den Kopf gestellt haben. "Ma Rainey" die Mother Of Blues Für viele Menschen beginnt der Siegeszug des Blues mit Robert Johnson, dem "King of Delta Blues", der seine Seele an den Teufel verkauft haben soll, um besser Gitarre spielen zu können. Aber schon einige Jahre bevor sich Mythen um Robert Johnson entwickelten, war da Sängerin Ma Rainey, die Godmother of Blues, die für viele nachfolgende Künstler und Künstlerinnen eine wahre Inspiration war. Für Sängerin Bessie Smith war sie sogar eine leibhaftige Mentorin. Nach ihrem Tod wurde Ma Rainey für ihre Verdienste im Bluesbereich in die Blues Hall of Fame und die Rock and Roll Hall of Fame aufgenommen. Sister Rosetta Tharpe – Die Erfinderin des Rock and Roll In den Debatten, wer denn jetzt den Rock and Roll erfunden hat, taucht sie meistens leider gar nicht auf: Sister Rosetta Tharpe. Eine schwarze Musikerin, die in der Zeit der Rassengesetze durch die Südstaaten der USA tourte und trotz der schwierigen Bedingungen immer weiter machte und die Musikwelt begeisterte. Viele Musiker und Musikerinnen haben sich in der Vergangenheit immer wieder auf Sister Rosetta Tharpe berufen. Chuck Berry soll gesagt haben, dass "seine ganze Karriere nur eine sehr lange Imitation von Sister Rosetta Tharpe ist". Auch Künstler wie Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash und Tina Turner haben Sister Rosetta Tharpe als große Inspirationsquelle verehrt. Die Frau, die den Hip Hop erfand: Sylvia Robinson Der Hip Hop gilt als eine der Musikrichtungen, die von Beginn an sehr stark von Männern dominiert wurde. Erfunden hat das Genre allerdings Sylvia Robinson, die "Mother of Hip Hop". Nachdem sie selbst als Sängerin aktiv war ("Pillow Talk"), gründete sie das Label Sugarhill Records und veröffentlichte mit dem Song "Rapper‘s Delight" den ersten kommerziell erfolgreichen Rapsong. Auch wenn der Song in der Hip Hop Szene eher kritisch betrachtet wird, so hat er dem Hip Hop Genre doch den Weg in den Mainstream geebnet. Annette Humpe Was Annette Humpe für die deutsche Musiklandschaft getan hat, ist unvergleichlich. Als Sängerin und Songwriterin der Band Ideal hat sie die Neue Deutsche Welle maßgeblich mitgeprägt. Darüber hinaus war sie zusammen mit Sänger Adel Tawil auch Teil des erfolgreichen Popduos Ich + Ich. Aber auch abseits der Bühne hat Annette Humpe die deutsche Poplandschaft mitgeprägt. Sie hat Songs geschrieben für Udo Lindenberg, Nena, die Prinzen und viele mehr. Aber sie hat nicht nur Musik geschrieben, sondern zum Beispiel auch Songs von Rio Reiser produziert. Kate Bush hat die Zügel in der Hand Sängerin Kate Bush ist dem jüngeren Publikum spätestens seit der Erfolgsserie "Stranger Things" ein Begriff. In der Serie wurde vor allem ihr Hit "Running Up That Hill" sehr prominent eingesetzt. Der Erfolg der Serie hat dafür gesorgt, dass auch der Song von Kate Bush mehr als 30 Jahre nach der Veröffentlichung ein Megaerfolg wurde. 2022 war der Song sogar erfolgreicher als bei der ursprünglichen Veröffentlichung. Aber auch schon in den 80ern hat Kate Bush wahre Pionierarbeit geleistet. Während viele Künstlerinnen hauptsächlich auf der Bühne standen und Songs gesungen haben, die eben für sie geschrieben wurden, hatte Sängerin Kate Bush immer gerne selbst die sprichwörtlichen Zügel in der Hand und hat ihre eigenen Songs und Texte geschrieben. Damit hat sie auch Popstars wie Madonna beeinflusst, die sich durch die Vorreiterin Kate Bush bestärkt gefühlt haben, selbst die Kontrolle über ihre Kunst zu haben. Shownotes Trailer zum Film "Ma Raineys Black Bottom": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ord7gP151vk Kurzdokumentation zum Film "Ma Raineys Black Bottom": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAY2oAm2rv4 Gitarrensolos von Rosetta Tharpe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gELe5Rj_tXU Kurzdokumentation über Sister Rosetta Tharpe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii06ABCd9ww Artikel zum 60. Geburtstag von Kate Bush: https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/zum-60-von-kate-bush-die-feministin-der-tat-100.html Onlineartikel zu "Musik und Gender": https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/musik/malisa-studie-ueber-musik-und-gender-maennerueberhang-ueber-80-prozent-a-2ff01e44-6789-406d-b143-fc3bb5e2cafc Podcastfolge zum internationalen Frauentag 2022: https://www.swr.de/swr1/rp/meilensteine/spezialfolge-zum-internationalen-frauentag-2022-100.html __________ Ihr wollt mehr Podcasts wie diesen? Abonniert die SWR1 Meilensteine! Fragen, Kritik, Anregungen? Schreibt uns an: meilensteine@swr.de

We continue our story on the birth of hip-hop. In this episode we look at the graffiti and b-boy and b-girl culture. We also explore the 1979 song “Rapper's Delight” by The Sugar Hill Gang, which was the first recorded hip-hop song. We dig into how the group formed, the song's lasting impact, and the controversy behind some of its lyrics.    Guests:  Darryl McDaniels Grand Wizzard Theodore Master Gee Rich Nice  Credits:  Jill Webb, Producer Dempsey Pillot, Producer Anddy Egan-Thorpe, Audio Engineer Femi Redwood, Host and Executive Producer

Introduction: In this episode, we delve into the life and legacy of Sylvia Robinson, the music executive and producer who brought hip hop to the masses and changed the music landscape forever. Sylvia was the founder of Sugar Hill Records and was responsible for producing some of the biggest hip hop hits of all time. Segment 1: Ed Anderson, a DJ at the station, was asked to play the song during the last hour of his show. The song became an instant hit and went viral, with people calling the station to ask what it was. The song was a commercial success and peaked at number 36 on the Billboard Hot 100, number one in Canada and the Netherlands, and number three in the UK. Segment 2: Sylvia changed the name of her label from All Platinum to Sugar Hill Records after the success of the Sugar Hill Gang. She went on to sign successful acts such as the Treacherous Three, Funky Four Plus One, and others. Sylvia even produced some of the music videos for her artists, including working with a young Spike Lee. She signed Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five to create the hit song "The Message", which was considered one of the greatest songs of all time by Time Magazine. Segment 3: Despite the success of Sugar Hill Records, not everyone was happy about it. The originators of hip-hop didn't understand how three inexperienced MCs not from the birthplace of hip-hop could create its first commercial success. Sylvia knew that for the evolution of hip hop, she had to put out fun and great music, but she also had to get out what was going on in the streets. Segment 4: Sugar Hill Records fell on hard times due to competition, and financial and legal problems. Many of the founding hip-hop pioneers were going commercial, and new players in the game, including LL Cool J, Run DMC, and the Beastie Boys, were entering the scene. Sylvia and her husband Joe would divorce, and Sylvia would create a new label with a group from New Jersey called the New Style. The group would resurface two years later under a new name, Naughty by Nature. Conclusion: Sylvia passed away in 2011 due to heart failure and was 76 years old. In 2022, she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame due to her contribution of bringing hip hop to the masses. The Black Is America podcast, a presentation of OWLS Education, was created and is written, researched, and produced by Dominic Lawson. Executive Producer Kenda Lawson Alexandria Eddings of Art Life Connections created cover art.  Sources to create this episode include National Public Radio, St. Louis Public Radio, BBC 4, American Masters, Billboard .com, and more. For a complete list, look in the show note of your podcast player or our website www.blackisamericapodcast.com. Be sure to Like, review, and subscribe to the Black Is America Podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, where ever you like to listen to podcasts. Also, let people know about the podcast,we would appreciate that very much.  For a full transcript of this episode and other resources, go to www.blackisamericapodcast.com. There you can read our blog, leave us a review, or you can leave a voicemail where you can ask a question or let us know what you think about the show that we may play in an episode. You can also hit the donation button if you like what you heard which helps us to create more educational content like this.   

Brian breaks down the jaw-dropping story of one determined journalist with his back against the wall and the outlandish piece of advice he took that helped birth an entire genre and industry. SHOW NOTES: Songs used in this episode: Perry Como - "There is No Christmas Like a Home Christmas" and Kurtis Blow - "Christmas Rappin'" https://rockthebells.com/articles/kurtis-blow-talks-christmas-rappin/ https://hiphopevolution.com/articles/hhe-transcripts-kurtis-blow-and-russell-simmons-tell-the-story-behind-christmas-rappin-to-hip-hop-evolution/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/arts/music/robert-ford-jr-dead.html The original Billboard article considered to be first coverage of hip-hop in the mainstream: https://books.google.com/books?id=9CQEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=robert%20ford%20b-beats&f=false The original Billboard article explaining the emergence of rap in NY: https://books.google.com/books?id=iiQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT2&dq=Jive+Talking+N.Y.+DJs+Rapping+Away+in+Black+Discos&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpqZfGvOLpAhU0l3IEHcYbAQgQ6AEwAHoECAAQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false https://hiphophero.com/looking-back-at-the-first-major-label-rap-song-kurtis-blows-christmas-rappin/ https://www.allmusic.com/artist/the-sugarhill-gang-mn0000564631/biography https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/every-year-just-bout-time-kurtis-blow-celebrates-rhyme-180973639/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Robinson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight Diggin in the Crates with Nile Rodgers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy70I5KbHno

In this episode, join Ray and Marc as they break down the 2022 Rock Hall class inductees. This year's performers include Pat Benatar and Neil Giraldo, Duran Duran, Eminem, Eurythmics, Dolly Parton, Lionel Richie, and Carly Simon; along with Judas Priest and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis for Musical Excellence; and Harry Belafonte and Elizabeth Cotten for Early Influence; and Allen Grubman, Jimmy Iovine, and Sylvia Robinson for the Ahmet Ertegun Award. Listen to this week's podcast to find out the cultural impact this The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame class had on the world of music. https://www.rockhall.com/2022inductees

In this special episode we get a chance to sit down with Leland Robinson the son of Sylvia Robinson and the current owner of Sugar Hill Records to get his feelings in response to the negative statements that were made by KRS-One. ➜EMAIL QUESTIONS:
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Music writer and historian Jay Quan joins Joe & Kristen to discuss the life and career of Sugar Hill Records founder Sylvia Robinson, one of this year's Ahmet Ertegun Award recipients for the 2022 Rock Hall class. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts.

Music writer and historian Jay Quan joins Joe & Kristen to discuss the life and career of Sugar Hill Records founder Sylvia Robinson, one of this year's Ahmet Ertegun Award recipients for the 2022 Rock Hall class. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts.

In this episode we welcome "gamekeeper-turned-poacher" Steven Daly, who Zooms in from his adopted Brooklyn to tell us about drumming in Orange Juice and his stellar writing career in America.Steven revisits his musical youth in '70s Glasgow and his first encounters with Edwyn Collins and Postcard's Alan Horne. He talks about the creative divergences within Orange Juice, his eventual move into writing for The Face and Edinburgh's Cut magazine, and the decision in the late '80s to base himself in New York. His hosts focus on three of his pieces, written over the course of 15 years for Spin, Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair, with Steven reminiscing about meeting Joni Mitchell and Sugar Hill matriarch Sylvia Robinson.Clips from Steven's May 1993 audio interview with Suede's Brett Anderson and Mat Osman provide a good excuse to discuss the emerging "Englishness" of post-grunge Britain and the abiding fantasy of UK bands "taking America". Staying Stateside, Jasper praises the week's featured artist Lizzo, with reference to pieces about the funk-pop star that stretch back to 2013. Mark then pays tribute to former Miles Davis bassist Michael Henderson, who died on July 19th, and talks us through his favourite library additions from the past fortnight — including pieces about Yoko Ono, Pink Floyd, Juan Atkins and the aforementioned Miles Davis. Barney mentions pieces about Canned Heat and World of Twist, while Jasper concludes the episode with his thoughts on D'Angelo and the great Black-owned record labels...Many thanks to special guest Steven Daly; visit his RBP writer's page for more on him and his writing.Pieces discussed: Orange Juice, Joni Mitchell, Deee-Lite, Sugarhill Gang, Suede audio, Suede, Lizzo profile, Lizzo live, The Year of Lizzo, Michael Henderson, David Dalton podcast, Pink Floyd, Joni Mitchell, Robert Fripp, Juan Atkins, Yoko Ono, Dusty Springfield, Canned Heat, Earl King, World of Twist, D'Angelo, Black Artist-Owned Labels and Sean Paul's teenage obsessions.

In this episode we welcome "gamekeeper-turned-poacher" Steven Daly, who Zooms in from his adopted Brooklyn to tell us about drumming in Orange Juice and his stellar writing career in America.Steven revisits his musical youth in '70s Glasgow and his first encounters with Edwyn Collins and Postcard's Alan Horne. He talks about the creative divergences within Orange Juice, his eventual move into writing for The Face and Edinburgh's Cut magazine, and the decision in the late '80s to base himself in New York. His hosts focus on three of his pieces, written over the course of 15 years for Spin, Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair, with Steven reminiscing about meeting Joni Mitchell and Sugar Hill matriarch Sylvia Robinson.Clips from Steven's May 1993 audio interview with Suede's Brett Anderson and Mat Osman provide a good excuse to discuss the emerging "Englishness" of post-grunge Britain and the abiding fantasy of UK bands "taking America". Staying Stateside, Jasper praises the week's featured artist Lizzo, with reference to pieces about the funk-pop star that stretch back to 2013. Mark then pays tribute to former Miles Davis bassist Michael Henderson, who died on July 19th, and talks us through his favourite library additions from the past fortnight — including pieces about Yoko Ono, Pink Floyd, Juan Atkins and the aforementioned Miles Davis. Barney mentions pieces about Canned Heat and World of Twist, while Jasper concludes the episode with his thoughts on D'Angelo and the great Black-owned record labels...Many thanks to special guest Steven Daly; visit his RBP writer's page for more on him and his writing.Pieces discussed: Orange Juice, Joni Mitchell, Deee-Lite, Sugarhill Gang, Suede audio, Suede, Lizzo profile, Lizzo live, The Year of Lizzo, Michael Henderson, David Dalton podcast, Pink Floyd, Joni Mitchell, Robert Fripp, Juan Atkins, Yoko Ono, Dusty Springfield, Canned Heat, Earl King, World of Twist, D'Angelo, Black Artist-Owned Labels and Sean Paul's teenage obsessions.

Elder Dr. Roosevelt Robinson, Jr was born in Columbia, SC. He was raised in Swansea, SC. He is a saved, born-again man of God who loves the Lord and serves Him with his whole heart. Dr. Robinson has a Bachelor's degree in Pastoral Counseling, a Master's degree in Theology, and a Doctorate degree in Divinity, which he obtained all of his degrees from the International overcoming Outreach School of Religion in Columbia, SC. ​ Dr. Robinson has served in ministry for over 32 years. He has served as a Minister, Praise & Worship Leader, Choir director, choir member, a drummer, a Youth Leader, Youth Pastor, an Elder, and a District Elder. God has anointed his voice to sing under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. ​ Dr. Robinson has been married for over 22 years to Sylvia Robinson. They raised a daughter together that God blessed them with. Dr. Robinson is not only an author, but an Independent Gospel Recording Artist. He has a project that is available on all digital outlets entitled, "Here We Are” under his artist's name—Frankie Robinson. ​ Dr. Robinson's book he wrote, “God's Favor—My Wife, is a story of how he met and married his wife. It also contains his journey to that point in his life that will bless you and help you on your walk with Christ Jesus. He has shared a lot of wisdom to encourage people looking for a spouse or just a closer walk with God. This book was prophesied to him years ago, that he would write and share with the world. I hope you are blessed and enjoy reading it!

Elder Dr. Roosevelt Robinson, Jr was born in Columbia, SC. He was raised in Swansea, SC. He is a saved, born-again man of God who loves the Lord and serves Him with his whole heart. Dr. Robinson has a Bachelor's degree in Pastoral Counseling, a Master's degree in Theology, and a Doctorate degree in Divinity, which he obtained all of his degrees from the International overcoming Outreach School of Religion in Columbia, SC. ​ Dr. Robinson has served in ministry for over 32 years. He has served as a Minister, Praise & Worship Leader, Choir director, choir member, a drummer, a Youth Leader, Youth Pastor, an Elder, and a District Elder. God has anointed his voice to sing under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. ​ Dr. Robinson has been married for over 22 years to Sylvia Robinson. They raised a daughter together that God blessed them with. Dr. Robinson is not only an author, but an Independent Gospel Recording Artist. He has a project that is available on all digital outlets entitled, "Here We Are” under his artist's name—Frankie Robinson. ​ Dr. Robinson's book he wrote, “God's Favor—My Wife, is a story of how he met and married his wife. It also contains his journey to that point in his life that will bless you and help you on your walk with Christ Jesus. He has shared a lot of wisdom to encourage people looking for a spouse or just a closer walk with God. This book was prophesied to him years ago, that he would write and share with the world. I hope you are blessed and enjoy reading it!

Elder Dr. Roosevelt Robinson, Jr was born in Columbia, SC. He was raised in Swansea, SC. He is a saved, born-again man of God who loves the Lord and serves Him with his whole heart. Dr. Robinson has a Bachelor's degree in Pastoral Counseling, a Master's degree in Theology, and a Doctorate degree in Divinity, which he obtained all of his degrees from the International Overcoming Outreach School of Religion in Columbia, SC. ​ Dr. Robinson has served in ministry for over 32 years. He has served as a Minister, Praise & Worship Leader, Choir director, choir member, a drummer, a Youth Leader, Youth Pastor, an Elder, and a District Elder. God has anointed his voice to sing under the anointing and power of the Holy Ghost. ​ Dr. Robinson has been married for over 22 years to Sylvia Robinson. They raised a daughter together that God blessed them with. Dr. Robinson is not only an author, but an Independent Gospel Recording Artist. He has a project that is available on all digital outlets entitled, "Here We Are” under his artist's name—Frankie Robinson. ​Dr. Robinson's book he wrote, “God's Favor—My Wife, is a story of how he met and married his wife. It also contains his journey to that point in his life that will bless you and help you on your walk with Christ Jesus. He has shared a lot of wisdom to encourage people looking for a spouse or just a closer walk with God. This book was prophesied to him years ago, that he would write and share with the world. I hope you are blessed and enjoy reading it!

Olivia honors talented musician, vocalist, and record producer, Sylvia Robinson, who was the first Black female independent record producer to have a Top-10 hit, and is known for putting hip-hop on the map through her record label, Sugar Hill Records.   Learn More! The Rise and Fall of Hip-Hop's First Godmother: Sugar Hill Records' Sylvia Robinson https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/sugar-hill-records-sylvia-robinson-hip-hop-godmother-8533108/ SYLVIA ROBINSON (1936-2011) https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/robinson-sylvia-1936-2011/   Email us! intersectionalinsights@gmail.com. Follow us!  Instagram https://www.instagram.com/isquaredpodcast/ Twitter @I_squaredpod https://twitter.com/I_SquaredPod Facebook page http://www.fb.me/ISquaredPod

Chris Molanphy (Slate's Hit Parade) joins Joe & Kristen for a discussion all about the year 1983. There is no point that year when a 2022 inductee isn't strongly represented on the Hot 100. From the breakthroughs of Duran Duran and Eurythmics to the #1 hits from Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton and beyond. Pat Benatar, Jimmy Iovine, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Carly Simon, Judas Priest, even artists from Sylvia Robinson's Sugar Hill Records label all put out music this year. Listen in as we break it all down. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts.

Chris Molanphy (Slate's Hit Parade) joins Joe & Kristen for a discussion all about the year 1983. There is no point that year when a 2022 inductee isn't strongly represented on the Hot 100. From the breakthroughs of Duran Duran and Eurythmics to the #1 hits from Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton and beyond. Pat Benatar, Jimmy Iovine, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Carly Simon, Judas Priest, even artists from Sylvia Robinson's Sugar Hill Records label all put out music this year. Listen in as we break it all down. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chris Molanphy (Slate's Hit Parade) joins Joe & Kristen for a discussion all about the year 1983. There is no point that year when a 2022 inductee isn't strongly represented on the Hot 100. From the breakthroughs of Duran Duran and Eurythmics to the #1 hits from Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton and beyond. Pat Benatar, Jimmy Iovine, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Carly Simon, Judas Priest, even artists from Sylvia Robinson's Sugar Hill Records label all put out music this year. Listen in as we break it all down. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts.

Chris Molanphy (Slate's Hit Parade) joins Joe & Kristen for a discussion all about the year 1983. There is no point that year when a 2022 inductee isn't strongly represented on the Hot 100. From the breakthroughs of Duran Duran and Eurythmics to the #1 hits from Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton and beyond. Pat Benatar, Jimmy Iovine, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Carly Simon, Judas Priest, even artists from Sylvia Robinson's Sugar Hill Records label all put out music this year. Listen in as we break it all down. This show is part of Pantheon Podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Rock & Roll of Fame announced this year's inductees on 5/4. I discuss each inductee's bio and achievements: Duran Duran, rapper Eminem, classic rocker Pat Benatar, pop duo Eurythmics, country's Dolly Parton, singer/songwriter Carly Simon, and R&B's Lionel Richie. In addition, others affiliated in the music industry will be acknowledged in special categories: heavy metal band Judas Priest, production duo James Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame founder & entertainment lawyer Allen Grubman, recording engineer and philanthropist Jimmy Iovine, posthumous awards to R&B/hip-hop CEO Sylvia Robinson and folk musician Elizabeth Cotten, and music political influencer Harry Belafonte. The ceremony is scheduled for November 5th.Theme Song: "Dance Track", composed by Jessica Ann CatenaThe Rock & Roll Hall of Fame: rockhall.com

In this episode we welcome the legendary Pete Wingfield to Hammersmith to discuss his career as a keyboard player, record producer and music journalist.We start by asking Pete about Soulbeat, the fanzine he started at Wellington College, and about the network of R&B fans in mid-'60s Britain. From there we learn about Mike Vernon's Blue Horizon label (and Chipping Norton studio); about Pete's 1967 trip to America, where he met Otis Redding at Stax studios; and about the Breakfast Special album that produced his big 1975 hit 'Eighteen with a Bullet'.Fast-forwarding to 1981, Pete tells Barney, Mark & Jasper about Sylvia Robinson, the Sugarhill Gang, and cutting Mel Brooks' rap hit 'It's Good to be the King' in a basement studio in Mortlake — the same place where he produced Dexys Midnight Runners' No. 1 hit 'Geno'. A brief discussion of Dexys and Searching for the Young Soul Rebels leads into recollections of touring with the reunited Everly Brothers, producing the Proclaimers' '500 Miles' and playing on Paul McCartney's 1999 covers album Run Devil Run.Clips from Cliff White's 1980 audio interview with New Orleans great Lee Dorsey provide the perfect excuse to express our abiding love of Lee and of Allen Toussaint's Crescent City soul sound. Staying in a southern vein, we mark the passing of country-soul king Joe Simon, who died in December. We also bid a sad farewell to beloved Radio 1 deejay Janice Long.Mark talks us out with quotes from pieces about Kathy Kirby, Van Dyke Parks, Prince's Controversy and Shelby Lynne, while Jasper brings us up to date with his thoughts on Taku Sugimoto, Wolf Alice and Sampa the Great.Pieces discussed: Pete Wingfield, Twenty Essential Soul Records, The Sugarhill Gang, Dexys Midnight Runners, Searching for the Young Soul Rebels, Lee Dorsey audio, Wingfield on Toussaint, Joe Simon, Janice Long, George Harrison and Eric Clapton, The Band, Prince's Controversy, Kathy Kirby, Van Dyke Parks, Shelby Lynne, Taku Sugimoto, Wolf Alice and Sampa the Great.

In this episode we welcome the legendary Pete Wingfield to Hammersmith to discuss his career as a keyboard player, record producer and music journalist.We start by asking Pete about Soulbeat, the fanzine he started at Wellington College, and about the network of R&B fans in mid-'60s Britain. From there we learn about Mike Vernon's Blue Horizon label (and Chipping Norton studio); about Pete's 1967 trip to America, where he met Otis Redding at Stax studios; and about the Breakfast Special album that produced his big 1975 hit 'Eighteen with a Bullet'.Fast-forwarding to 1981, Pete tells Barney, Mark & Jasper about Sylvia Robinson, the Sugarhill Gang, and cutting Mel Brooks' rap hit 'It's Good to be the King' in a basement studio in Mortlake — the same place where he produced Dexys Midnight Runners' No. 1 hit 'Geno'. A brief discussion of Dexys and Searching for the Young Soul Rebels leads into recollections of touring with the reunited Everly Brothers, producing the Proclaimers' '500 Miles' and playing on Paul McCartney's 1999 covers album Run Devil Run.Clips from Cliff White's 1980 audio interview with New Orleans great Lee Dorsey provide the perfect excuse to express our abiding love of Lee and of Allen Toussaint's Crescent City soul sound. Staying in a southern vein, we mark the passing of country-soul king Joe Simon, who died in December. We also bid a sad farewell to beloved Radio 1 deejay Janice Long.Mark talks us out with quotes from pieces about Kathy Kirby, Van Dyke Parks, Prince's Controversy and Shelby Lynne, while Jasper brings us up to date with his thoughts on Taku Sugimoto, Wolf Alice and Sampa the Great.Pieces discussed: Pete Wingfield, Twenty Essential Soul Records, The Sugarhill Gang, Dexys Midnight Runners, Searching for the Young Soul Rebels, Lee Dorsey audio, Wingfield on Toussaint, Joe Simon, Janice Long, George Harrison and Eric Clapton, The Band, Prince's Controversy, Kathy Kirby, Van Dyke Parks, Shelby Lynne, Taku Sugimoto, Wolf Alice and Sampa the Great.

First episode of the year is here! Tune in as EC goes through the come-up of the legendary group, Sugar Hill Gang. On this day in 1980 the group's smash single, "Rappers Delight" became the first ever Hip Hop single to reach the Billboard Top 40, making it the first ever successful Hip Hop song in history. This was also the first time we ever heard the words "hip hop" in a record.  EC visits the story of how the group came together to make the record and how Sylvia Robinson played a major role in making this song, along with other iconic records.Happy 2022 y'all!Hip Hop Leaf: MCLike the pod? Subscribe and follow:Instagram: @hhcloverleafTwitter: @hhcloverleafFacebook: @hhcloverleafYouTube: Hip Hop Cloverleaf PodcastSoundcloud: Hip Hop Cloverleaf PodcastWebsite: hiphopcloverleaf.comEmail: hiphopcloverleafpodcast@gmail.comCreditsEpisode Artwork: "Big Bank Hank (Henry Jackson) of The Sugar Hill Gang lost his cancer battle yesterday. Gone too soon." by vision63 is licensed under CC BY-NC 2.0. To view a copy of this license, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/?ref=openverse&atype=richPhoto was modified.Production:ECMahfuzZahidEdgar P.Jay 717Adrian Stubb

Part 2 of the Blue Lineage Timeline to Womanist Epistemological Research. Examples include Mamie Smith, Little Richard, Champion Jack Dupree, Jack L Cooper, Lavern Baker, Charley Patton, Tommy McClennan, Jack the Rapper, and Sylvia Robinson. For more information on this subject see this previous video: https://youtu.be/NBHpPEhx1Q4 Find out more about the timeline at https://www.bluelineage.com

What agreements are you making with the enemy? In part four of this series, Jeff and Sylvia Robinson join John and Stasi to discuss how to rise up, resist the enemy, and gain freedom by breaking these agreements.  Show Note: For more, join The Wild at Heart Experience (for men) at wildatheart.org/wildatheart or The Captivating Experience (for women) at wildatheart.org/captivating.

Lady Luck joins us today for this week's episode. @iamladyluck has been in the music scene from a very early age, thanks to her aunt, the great Sylvia Robinson, one of the founders of the legendary Sugar Hill Records. Lady Luck went on to sign a record deal at the age of 17 with the iconic Def Jam recording label and was also featured in the 2000 documentary film of Jay-Z's 1999 tour, Backstage. In 2017, Luck was a cast member on the reality show "First Family of Hip Hop" on the Bravo cable network. We connect and talk about what it was like growing up immersed in hip-hop, the experience of being on a reality show, and much more. Available wherever you listen to music or podcasts!