Podcasts about inattentive

Episode 191: Diagnosis of ADHDFuture Dr. Granat explains how to diagnose Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. She explained the influence of social media in increasing awareness of ADHD. Dr. Arreaza added input about the validated tools for ADHD diagnosis and highlighted the importance of expert evaluation for the diagnosis of this disorder.  Written by Yen Stephanie Granat, MSIV. Ross University School of Medicine. Comments and editing by Hector Arreaza, MD.You are listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast, your weekly dose of knowledge brought to you by the Rio Bravo Family Medicine Residency Program from Bakersfield, California, a UCLA-affiliated program sponsored by Clinica Sierra Vista, Let Us Be Your Healthcare Home. This podcast was created for educational purposes only. Visit your primary care provider for additional medical advice.Steph: I love podcasts—many of us do—and if you, like me, spend any amount of your leisure time listening to podcasts, perusing the news, or scrolling social media; you've likely noticed an alarming trend in the number of discussions we seem to be having about ADHD. It has grown into a very hot topic over the past couple of years, and for some of us, it seems to have even begun sneaking into our “recommended videos” and across our news feeds! Naturally, for the average person this can spur questions like:“Do I have ADHD? Do we all have it? How can I be certain either way, and what do I do if I find myself relating to most of the symptoms that I'm seeing discussed?”Granted that there is a whirlpool of information circulating around this hot topic, I was hoping to spend a bit of time clearly outlining the disorder for anyone finding themselves curious. I believe that can best be achieved through outlining a clear, concise, and easy-to-understand definition of what ADHD is; outlining what it is not; and helping people sift through the fact and the fiction. As with many important things we see discussed on the internet, we're seeing is that there is much more fiction than fact. Arreaza: I'm so glad you chose this topic! I think it is challenging to find reliable information about complex topics like ADHD. Tik Tok, Instagram and Facebook are great social media platforms, but we have to admit that fake news have spread like a fire in recent years. So, if you, listener, are looking for reliable information about ADHD, you are in the right place. With ADHD, there aren't any obvious indicators, or rapid tests someone can take at home to give themselves a reliable “yes” or “no” test result. People's concerns with ADHD are valid, and important to address, so we will discuss the steps to identify some of signs and symptoms they are seeing on TikTok or their favorite podcaster. Steph: Healthcare anxiety is a vital factor to consider when it comes to large cultural conversations around our minds and bodies; so, I hope to sweep away some of the misconceptions and misinformation floating around about ADHD. In doing so, I want to help alleviate any stress or confusion for anyone finding themselves wondering if ADHD is impacting their lives! We might even be able to more accurately navigate these kinds of “viral topics” (for lack of a better term) next time we see them popping up on our news feeds.Arreaza: The first thing I want to say about ADHD is “the crumpled paper sign.”Steph: What is that?Arreaza: It is an undescribed sign of ADHD, I have noticed it, and it is anecdotal, not evidence based. When I walk into a room to see a pediatric patient, I have noticed that when the paper that covers the examination table is crumpled, most of the times it is because the pediatric patient is very active. Then I proceed to ask questions about ADHD and I have been right many times about the diagnosis. So, just an anecdote, remember the crumpled paper sign.  Steph: When you have patients coming to you asking for stimulants because they think they have ADHD, hopefully, after today, you can be better prepared to help those patients. So, for the average person—anyone wanting to be sure if this diagnosis applies to them—how can we really know?”Arreaza: So, let's talk about diagnosis.Steph: Yes, the clearest information we have is the DSM-5, which defines these disorders, as well as outlines the specific criteria (or “checkpoints”) one needs to meet to be able to have a formal diagnosis. However, this manual is best utilized by a trained professional—in this case, a physician—who can properly assess your signs and symptoms and give you a clear answer. Steph: ADHD stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. It is among the most common neurodevelopmental disorders of childhood. That is not to say it does not affect adult—it does—and because it can be easy to miss, it's very possible for someone to have ADHD without knowing. Arreaza: I recently learned that ADD is an outdated term. Some people with ADHD do not have hyperactivity but the term still applies to them. Steph: Yes, there are multiple types that I will explain in just a bit. But overall the disorder is most simply characterized by a significant degree of difficulty in paying attention, controlling impulsive behaviors, or in being overly active in a way that the individual finds very difficult to control. (CDC)Arreaza: How common is ADHD?Steph: The most recently published data from The CDC estimates that 7 million (11.4%) of U.S. children between the ages of 3 and 17 have been diagnosed with ADHD. For adults, it is estimated that there are 15.5 million (6%) individuals in the U.S. who currently have ADHD. Arreaza: I suspected it would be more than that. [Anecdote about Boy Scout camp]. Steph: I totally agree. With short videos on TikTok, or paying high subscription fees to skip ads, it feels like as a society we all have a shorter attention span. Arreaza: Even churches are adapting to the new generation of believers: Shorter sermons and shorter lessons.Steph: When it comes to better understanding these numbers, it's also important to know that there are three distinct presentations of ADHD recognized by The CDC and The World Health Organization. Arreaza: The DSM-5 TR no longer uses the word “subtypes” for ADHD. Instead, it uses the word "presentation" to describe the different ways that ADHD may manifest in a person. That reminded me to update my old DSM-5 manual and I ordered it while reading today about ADHD. This means people with ADHD are no longer diagnosed as having a “subtype”. Instead, they are diagnosed with ADHD and a certain “presentation” of symptoms.Steph: These presentations are:Inattentive TypePeople often have difficulty planning or completing tasksThey find themselves easily distracted (especially when it comes to longer, focus-oriented tasks)They can often forget details and specifics, even with things that are part of their daily routineThis used to be referred to as “ADD” (you'll notice the absence of an “H”, segue).Hyperactive-Impulsive TypePeople often have a sense of intense “restlessness”, noticeable even in calm environments.They tend to be noticeably more talkative, and might often be seen interrupting others, or finishing their sentences.They find significant difficulty in being still for extended periods. Because of this, they are often unable to sit through a movie or class time, without fidgeting or getting up and moving around.With this category of ADHD, we often see an impulsiveness that unwittingly leads to risky behavior. Because of this, accidents and bodily injury are more common in individuals with this type of ADHD.Combined TypeThese are individuals who exhibit symptoms from both “Inattentive” and “Hyperactive-Impulsive” ADHD equally.Some listeners might have noticed that the categories are quite different, meaning that ADHD presents in different ways depending on the person! Two people who have ADHD can be in the same room and have vastly different presentations, whilst still having many of the same types of challenges. You also might have noticed what makes the discussion so interesting to the general public, which is also the thing that makes speaking to a professional to get formally tested so important:The diagnostic criteria rely heavily on patterns of behavior, or external variables; rather than on how a person might feel, or certain measurements taken from lab tests.Arreaza: Diagnosing ADHD requires evaluation by a professional who is properly trained for this. Fortunately, we have tools to assist with the diagnosis. The attention deficit must be noted in more than one major setting (e.g., social, academic, or occupational), that's why the information should be gathered from multiple sources, including parents, teachers, and other caregivers, using validated tools, such as:The Neuropsychiatric EEG-Based ADHD Assessment Aid (NEBA), recommended by the American Academy of NeurologyThe Vanderbilt ADHD Diagnostic Parent Rating Scale (VADPRS) and the Vanderbilt ADHD Diagnostic Teacher Rating Scale (VADTRS), recommended by the Society for Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics.For adults: The validated rating scales include the Adult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS) and the Conners Adult ADHD Rating Scales (CAARS).Steph: This is important because nearly everyone alive has experienced several, if not most, of these behavioral patterns at least once. Whether or not an individual has ADHD, I'm certain we could all think of moments we've had great difficulty focusing or sitting still. Perhaps some of us are incredibly forgetful, or act more impulsively than the average person might find typical. Getting a professional diagnosis is important because it is in skillfully assessing “the bigger picture” of a person's life, or their patterns of behavior, that a skilled physician, who understands the nuances and complexities in these disorders, can properly tell each of us whether we have ADHD, or not.Essentially, most of us could stand to use a bit more focus these days, but far fewer of us would meaningfully benefit from the kinds of treatments and therapies needed by individuals with ADHD to live healthier, more happy and regulated lives.Arreaza: I had a mother who came to discuss the results of the Vanderbilt Questionnaire. I think she left a little disappointed when she heard that, based on the responses from her and the teacher, her son did not have ADHD. Some kids may have behaviors such as being distracted during a meeting, forgetting about homework or having a lot of energy, but that does NOT mean necessarily that they have ADHD, right?Steph: Absolutely! The important thing to remember here is that these patterns of behavior outlined in the DSM-5 are merely an external gauge for a neurological reality. What the science is showing us is that the brains of people with ADHD are wired differently than that of the more “neurotypical” brain. Much like a check engine light would serve as a signal to a driver that something under the hood needs attention; these patterns of behavior, when they begin impeding our day to day lives, might tell us that it's time to see a professional (whether it be an auto mechanic or a trained physician). I think we all know someone who drives with their check engine light and not a care in the world. Arreaza: How serious/urgent is ADHD? Why should we care to make the diagnosis?Steph: Although we've yet to see anyone incur harm solely from having ADHD, it does lead to quite a range of more serious issues, some of which might prove more urgent. In the cases of ADHD, specifically, what we know is that there is a notable degree of dysregulation in some key neurotransmitters, like dopamine and norepinephrine. More plainly, what we are seeing in the brains of people with ADHD is a disruption, or alteration, of some of the brain's key chemicals.These neurotransmitters are largely responsible for much-needed processes like Motivation, Satisfaction, Focus, Impulse control, even things like energy and feelings of happiness. Many of these things serve as “fuel” for our day-to-day lives; things we'd call our “executive function”.  These are also what prove dysfunctional in those struggling with ADHD. It is in this sense that we might be able to bridge a meaningful gap between ADHD as being seen through patterns of behaviorthat signal a real, neurological reality.Steph: We often hear of the brain referenced as a kind of supercomputer. A more accurate assessment might be that the brain is more of a network of interconnected computers that run different processes and require continual communication with one another for our brain to function properly and seamlessly. What we're seeing in members of the population with this diagnosis, is a significant disruption in these lines of communication. Although this is a very broad oversimplification, for the purposes of our metaphor is to think of it like our brain chemicals getting caught in a traffic jam, or parts of our brain attempting to communicate to one another with poor cell signal. Arreaza: Making the diagnosis is critical to start treatment because having that level of dysfunction sounds like having a very difficult life.Steph: Yeah! I think that's why this conversation matters so much. There's a sense of urgency there, because much of life is, in fact, boring. Things like paying bills, exercising and eating well, work and school—these are all things that are vital to health and wellbeing in day-to-day life; and for the more neurotypical brain, these things might prove occasionally challenging. Yet, they are still doable. For those with ADHD however, this goes far beyond mere boredom or “laziness” (which proves to be a trigger term for many—more on that in just a bit).For folks listening, I wanted to offer some statistics that show why this is such a big concern for the public, whether one has a formal ADHD diagnosis or not. The facts are figures are:Children with ADHD are more than five times as likely as the child without ADHD to have major depression.A significant increase in the prevalence of anxiety is seen in ADHD patients, ranging from 15% to 35%, when accounting for overlap in symptoms.There are significant correlations in youth diagnosed with ADHD, and those diagnosed with what are known as “externalizing disorders”. These are things like Conduct Disorder, Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder, and Oppositional Defiant Disorder.We are seeing a much higher rate of academic problems in kids who have ADHD, like reading disorder, impaired verbal skills, and visual motor integration.We're finding that many, if not most, of these connections are being made after diagnosis. In the case of the “internalized disorders”, like depression and anxiety, we're often seeing years between ADHD diagnoses and the diagnoses of major depressive disorder or anxiety disorders. Given this framework, much of the data is theorized to point towards what we call “negative environmental circumstances”, otherwise known as “ADHD-related demoralization”.For children, this often looks like struggling with sitting still during class, failing to get homework done (because they forgot, or couldn't focus on the tasks at hand), and struggling to focus their attention on what their teacher is saying during lecture. These things often lead to bad grades, discipline or forced time sitting still in detention. This can be seen in more problems at home, with children being disciplined often for behavior that they struggle immensely to control.For adults, this can mean forgetting to pay your bills, missing work meetings, having trouble making appointments, or having difficulty with day-to-day tasks, really anything that requires sustained attention. We often see adults with ADHD who are chasing normalcy with caffeine addictions or even struggling with substance use. Arreaza: Substance use disorder actually can be a way for some people living with ADHD to self-treat their symptoms. Steph: These differences between the individual's experience and the world around them can lead to really powerful feelings of failure or inadequacy. They can affect your social life, your sense of community, and even further limit your capacity to seek help.Literacy in these things is so important—not just for the individual who feels that they may have ADHD, but also for those who are likely to encounter people with ADHD in their own lives. Understanding why some of these patterns pop up, even those who might not have a formal diagnosis, can go a long way to properly approaching these behaviors with success and with empathy.Arreaza: Learning about ADHD is fundamental for primary care doctors. We talked about the high prevalence and the influence of the media in increasing awareness and sometimes increasing public panic. So, we have to be prepared to diagnose or undiagnosed ADHD. Steph: Whether we're the physicians in the room, or the patient in the chair, I think it's important to have a clear understanding of what ADHD is and how it can affect lives. Thanks for listening, I hope we were able to teach you a little more about ADHD. ______________Even without trying, every night you go to bed a little wiser. Thanks for listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast. We want to hear from you, send us an email at RioBravoqWeek@clinicasierravista.org, or visit our website riobravofmrp.org/qweek. See you next week! _______________References:NICHQ-Vanderbilt-Assessment-Scales PDF: https://nichq.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/NICHQ-Vanderbilt-Assessment-Scales.pdfADHD: The facts. ADDA - Attention Deficit Disorder Association. (2023, January 11). https://add.org/adhd-facts/American Psychiatric Association, DSM-5 Task Force. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders: DSM-5™ (5th ed.). American Psychiatric Publishing, Inc. https://doi.org/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596.Gnanavel S, Sharma P, Kaushal P, Hussain S. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and comorbidity: A review of literature. World J Clin Cases. 2019 Sep 6;7(17):2420-2426. doi: 10.12998/wjcc.v7.i17.2420. PMID: 31559278; PMCID: PMC6745333.Staley BS, Robinson LR, Claussen AH, et al. Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Diagnosis, Treatment and Telehealth Use in Adults — National Center for Health Statistics Rapid Surveys System, United States, October – November 2023. CDC.Gov, MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2024;73:890-895.Danielson ML, Claussen AH, Arifkhanova A, Gonzalez MG, Surman C. Who Provides Outpatient Clinical Care for Adults With ADHD? Analysis of Healthcare Claims by Types of Providers Among Private Insurance and Medicaid Enrollees, 2021. J Atten Disord. 2024 Jun;28(8):1225-1235. doi: 10.1177/10870547241238899. Epub 2024 Mar 18. PMID: 38500256; PMCID: PMC11108736. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38500256/Mattingly G, Childress A. Clinical implications of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in adults: what new data on diagnostic trends, treatment barriers, and telehealth utilization tell us. J Clin Psychiatry. 2024;85(4):24com15592. https://www.psychiatrist.com/jcp/implications-adult-adhd-diagnostic-trends-treatment-barriers-telehealth/Didier J. My four kids and I all have ADHD. We need telehealth options. STAT News. Published October 10, 2024. Accessed October 10, 2024. https://www.statnews.com/2024/10/10/adhd-medication-shortage-telehealth-dea-congress/.Hong J, Mattingly GW, Carbray JA, Cooper TV, Findling RL, Gignac M, Glaser PE, Lopez FA, Maletic V, McIntyre RS, Robb AS, Singh MK, Stein MA, Stahl SM. Expert consensus statement for telepsychiatry and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. CNS Spectr. 2024 May 20:1-12. doi: 10.1017/S1092852924000208. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 38764385. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38764385/Gabor Maté: The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness, and Healing in a Toxic Culture. (2022). Youtube. Retrieved April 27, 2025, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttu21ViNiC0. Theme song, Works All The Time by Dominik Schwarzer, YouTube ID: CUBDNERZU8HXUHBS, purchased from https://www.premiumbeat.com/.

Why are so many women being diagnosed with ADHD later in life? What does your partner’s penis have to do with your bacterial vaginosis diagnosis? And when to worry about a lumpy boob. In this episode, psychiatrist and ADHD specialist Dr Kieran Kennedy discusses how women often experience more inattentive features of ADHD and why they may try to mask the symptoms. We also talk about time blindness, memory issues and emotional dysregulation. And is ADHD making you feel more sensitive to rejection? We discuss a condition called rejection sensitive dysphoria. Sign up to the Well Newsletter to receive your weekly dose of trusted health expertise without the medical jargon. Ask a question of our experts or share your story, feedback, or dilemma - you can send it anonymously here, email here or leave us a voice note here.THE END BITS Follow us on Instagram and Tiktok. All your health information is in the Well Hub. For more information on breast checks go to How To Check Your Breasts To find out where you can have a breast screen contact: BreastScreen Australia. Support independent women’s media by becoming a Mamamia subscriberCREDITS Hosts: Claire Murphy and Dr MariamGuest: Dr Kieran KennedySenior Producers: Claire Murphy and Sasha Tannock Audio Producers: Scott Stronach Video Producer: Julian RosarioMamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Information discussed in Well is for education purposes only and is not intended to provide professional medical advice. Listeners should seek their own medical advice, specific to their circumstances, from their treating doctor or health care professional.Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Isabelle finishes sharing her neuropsych results, including recommendations for ADHD and autism (HINT: unmask! WHAT?) From the categorization of ADHD like a storm warning system (Mild/moderate/severe) to how job interviews might be the one place to mask (and how David does his interviews), David and Isabelle spelunk around how certain measures, like empathy, are not 'markers' of autism in the way we may think.  Share your favorite fidgets with us! Go to somethingshinypodcast.com/fidgetlove now!---Isabelle goes into greater detail about how her neuropsychological assessment was able to show her how she initiates and sustains auditory and visual attention and a little bit on processing speed. But to get more data, she'd need to undergo testing designed for people with traumatic brain injuries or strokes or dementia—what? It's a little strange to realize that the gold standard for learning more about brain functioning as a grown up with ADHD is the same that's used for brain injuries.  David points out that he uses the word neurodivergent intentionally, in order to point out that there is a diversity of brains, rather than a deficiency or something wrong with you. There are brains that work well in crisis and brains that work well when things are calm. Doesn't that make sense? Would we say that someone would be “severely apt” at handling chaos? Maybe, you just do what you're good at? Isabelle goes back to the scale of mild/moderate/severe ADHD—mild reads as boring, moderate—moderation SUCKS—all the words for the scale are poor. David names: if you can't use the words to apply to “happiness” —it's a bad scale for humans. Would you say you are ‘mildly or severely happy?” Probably not. So maybe we use different words for humans. People with ADHD are not storms and do not require storm warnings (last time we checked). As part of her neuropsychological evaluation, Isabelle got pages and pages of recommendations for next steps. She got a lot of great data, and also realized that one episode of Something Shiny provides more—so that was affirming and helpful in terms of the work the podcast and its community are doing. Her evaluator left off her autism recommendations, sending them along later, but said, essentially, the only recommendation is to unmask more. That “the only place masking is helpful is in job interviews.” Other than that it's harmful. It takes energy, it burns people out, it's hard. Isabelle then goes on to rant about how biased job interviews are, unless you're giving case examples—but then, David is also super good at job interviews. He checks—did you go to high school or college? Cool, you must be smart. Then, do you want to work with him? Check. Then, would he want to hang out with this person? Yup. And finally, a bunch of curveballs to see how people think on their feet. Because that helps you see how people think and how they communicate about their problem solving, which is good data. Then David names that there are questions he'd love to ask about people that he can't, beyond the protected class questions about age or location or self-identity—he wishes he could ask if someone is neurodivergent or if someone in their family is neurodivergent, that is an asset to David. He sees the ability to think outside the box in order to do what they do. But he knows he's not trusted, most hiring people are lying to you, employers are anxious, you're not going to like them. Every employer is terrified of rejection, it's so complicated. But he sees neurodiversity and awareness of that as a major plus—if somebody understands that and has self-esteem around it, knows what accommodations they need, they are curious about that. Isabelle has such a bias for self-insight—she wonders, how someone who was so socially off the rhythm of her peers, how was it that she had a lot of high measures for sensory things, but high measures on empathy? Which seems odd, because all of the autistic people Isabelle knows have off the charts empathy, which David concurs. Like the empathy for the crushed ant on the sidewalk. This is so true for Isabelle, she remembers crying for hours about a three-legged hamster she saw in a pet store named “Tiny Tim”—in retrospect, his paw was probably chewed off by his littermates or his mom because hamsters are ROUGH like that—but her mom told her he was okay because he was “fat”—to be fair, she was fatphobic and Polish immigrant mentality an maybe also autistic herself, but she was so distraught. She used to track one ant walking all the way to its hill to make sure it made it because she felt personally responsible for seeing that it was okay. She was so scared she'd look at it later and wonder if she wasn't autistic—but the stakes were so high, she was scared of not having the community she felt like she was on the cusp of having and understanding. As David puts it: "we will fight for worth and identity." Even more so, Isabelle learns that her own stereotype about autism meaning she is low empathy (even indicated on the 'measures' of autism on the assessments she took) is where she doesn't 'meet criteria' for autism, and how that would keep her up at night. Until her neuropsychiatrist pointed out: it has more to do with a snapshot of where you are and your accommodations. Of course someone who is in their 40's, has been high masking their whole life, and who special interests in humans AKA psychology would be high on empathy measures--she wasn't like this as a kid but it took decades for her to 'get it.' And what a revelation, that autism and empathy are not what we stereotypically assume they might be!Also, send us photos or links to your fave fidgets! We'll put 'em on our website and share the fidget love. DEFINITIONSNote: “Neuropsych” is shorthand for BOTH a neuropsychological assessment or a neuropsychologist (which is confusing).Neuropsychologist is "an expert in how brain injuries and conditions affect your behavior, mood and thinking skills. They perform neuropsychological evaluations to assess how your brain and mind are working and suggest treatment plans." (Source: Cleveland Clinic).A neuropsychological assessment is a series of interviews and tests (computer, written, drawing, solving puzzles, etc. no magnets, radiation, electrodes, or medical procedures involved) — the type of test is based on what is being explored. This battery (or collection) of tests, often done across multiple sessions, help a neuropsychologist determine a psychological diagnosis, treatment plan, and get a sense of how your brain works. Typically recommended by school systems/medical system to assess kids to help figure out what learning differences and accommodations may be helpful, but these assessments are not just for kids! Adults can use them to gain self-understanding, establish a baseline (if dementia or high-risk contact sports play is involved), or even figure out what parts of your brain have been injured or might be affected by brain surgery. Because kids grow and development so much, they are often redone every 2-4 years. Here's more on neuropsychological assessments from the Cleveland Clinic.Masking: when neurodivergent individuals pretend to be neurotypical, hide or minimize their stims, and even pretend they have the sam...

Isabelle and David continue to explore how an official ADHD or autism or AuDHD diagnosis might be a useful bridge to belong to a community. But what about the people who see these labels as pathologizing, including famous ADHD researchers like Dr. Russell Barkely? David and Isabelle explore some of the ways that thinking of ADHD from the negatives only and leaves people using the label not as a tool for empowerment, self-understanding, and advocacy--but as an excuse. Furthermore, what about labels like "Asperger's" (low-support need/high-masking autism) that has its roots in Nazi extermination camps? Neuropsychs Explored Part III.---The pro to identifying as having ADHD that David now understands, that he didn't understand years ago, was that it allows you to fit into a culture and a group differently. He walked into a room in his 30's (at an Eye-to-Eye conference) and found himself fitting in. David needed the label to understand himself. He brings up Dr. Russell Barkley and his research—Isabelle jumps in with a factoid about Barkley's twin who had ADHD and addiction issues and died in a car accident…which helps give her context for why Barkley is so big on ADHD being a risk factor while driving. David wants to make it clear—it is a tragic story, and he's not about casting anyone as evil or bad—but Barkeley's work does do a number on people's self esteem. They look at his research and think they can't change and they start to use ADHD as an excuse, not an explanation. It's important to have compassion for people, he does talk a lot about addiction and car crashes, and we all have sad parts of our past, and its what we do now that matters. When he's talking to a room for non-ADHDers, they tend to think that people with ADHD are less, rather than more. He likes folk music and David likes rap, and David is not going to pretend to like folk music. Isabelle names that she tries to make sense of something so dehumanizing, like the six hour training she sat through of his that left her in tears, gaining some context for his story gave her a chance to reduce how slimed she felt. Knowing why does decrease suffering. Isabelle has seen a lot of hostility and backlash about AuDHD. Autism is a spectrum—yes, there are non speakers and folks with high support needs. But maybe it was what back in the day was called Asperger's, a now unused term. David names that Dr. Asperger was a Nazi (sympathizer?) Who created a line around autism (essentially how high-masking someone was) that determined who lived and died. For more on this deep history of Asperger — check out the links below. Isabelle and David agree to have a way longer conversation on the history of neurodivergence. Isabelle talks more about her neuropsych assessment, including sample questions, and fill in the blank type sentences to write. And she was given a questionnaire to give to someone who knows her well—for kids, this might be both to caregivers and teachers, so they can get data about how the kid is functioning in multiple environments. Isabelle then waits, gets a twenty-some page document, and they sit down and cover it all. Isabelle has in the months between first hearing the neuropsychologist state that she meets criteria for autism, confirming her suspicions, she went on a deep dive on all these pieces of information. Isabelle felt the fear of having this diagnosis taken away from her felt so deeply. It was so hard, even just listening to the summary, she wanted to skip to the end (another autistic trait, she is learning, wanting to know the context so she can track what's being described or knowing where it's going), and she yes, she has autism, and she burst into tears. Isabelle finally has an answer to the riddle, which a chunk of it related to ADHD, but this is another part of the mystery, like she has been looking in funhouse mirrors her whole life, and now she has an accurate reflection of who she is, like a real, non-distorted mirror. She also has “severe” ADHD. David and Isabelle dig in with how negative this criteria is (which, side note, connects to Barkley's research). Are we weather systems? Are we severely awesome? Maybe we change it to extremely? Gah. Asperger's and the history of neurodivergence Articles and books on Dr. Russell Barkley Known as a big researcher of ADHD, does really good research, and pushes forward a lot of diagnostic criteria and is in a position of power changing the game for a lot of humans. The caveat that Isabelle and David often make is that: he takes a really doom and gloom, pathologizing perspective (which are scary research-based bits of information).  Asperger's Autism: you have 40% chance of ADHD, and then DEFINITIONSNote: “Neuropsych” is shorthand for BOTH a neuropsychological assessment or a neuropsychologist (which is confusing).Neuropsychologist is "an expert in how brain injuries and conditions affect your behavior, mood and thinking skills. They perform neuropsychological evaluations to assess how your brain and mind are working and suggest treatment plans." (Source: Cleveland Clinic).A neuropsychological assessment is a series of interviews and tests (computer, written, drawing, solving puzzles, etc. no magnets, radiation, electrodes, or medical procedures involved) — the type of test is based on what is being explored. This battery (or collection) of tests, often done across multiple sessions, help a neuropsychologist determine a psychological diagnosis, treatment plan, and get a sense of how your brain works. Typically recommended by school systems/medical system to assess kids to help figure out what learning differences and accommodations may be helpful, but these assessments are not just for kids! Adults can use them to gain self-understanding, establish a baseline (if dementia or high-risk contact sports play is involved), or even figure out what parts of your brain have been injured or might be affected by brain surgery. Because kids grow and development so much, they are often redone every 2-4 years. Here's more on neuropsychological assessments from the Cleveland Clinic.Stimming (aka "Self-Stimulatory Behavior) -originally attributed to autism spectrum disorder (ASD), but also occurs in neurodivergent AND neurotypical or allistic (non-autistic) folks. It means repetitive physical movements, sounds, or actions that someone engages in (aka leg bouncing, finger tapping, hand flapping, twirling hair, humming, repeating words, staring, pacing, doodling, playing with fidgets, chewing gum, smelling or touching things..so many stims!).Useful for: so many things! For when your senses are overloaded or your understimulated, can help you focus and concentrate, can be a way to learn about or interact with your environment, or to cope with anxiety, stress, excitement, or big feels.Masking: when neurodivergent individuals pretend to be neurotypical, hide or minimize their stims, and even pretend they have the same reasons for doing things (like Isabelle saying "yes, I'm antsy" when she's pacing, when really she feels good and grounded when she paces or goes from room to room).

David and Isabelle go into greater depth about neuropsychological assessments--both back in the day and now-for kids, and for adults--and Isabelle's AHA moment about self-disclosing her AuDHD self. From the odd history of the intersection of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) and ADHD (did you know you couldn't be diagnosed with both for a long long time?) to realizing how literally she takes the world and how much it helps to finally have a turn signal on the car that is her, David and Isabelle dive deep into unmasking and the mistrust we have for the world when we are so misunderstood.---Isabelle likes having her new neuropsychological results because someone who is not her got to tell her that she has autism, and David has a different experience. His story was like three different hours of testing done at school, and it spit out that he was Oppositional Defiant, and then only in college did it notice he had differences in spelling and then ADHD. His experience is watching clients have their kids be flagged by a pediatrician or teacher to be tested and then they want to retest themselves. But David is so scared he'd go in now and learn…he doesn't have ADHD? And that Isabelle actually understands this, because there was a big gap (of several months) between the interview and the tests. Isabelle goes into further details around how she took her test in a little cubicle. And how for kids, it looks more like play, it involves an IQ test and way more details about processing speed, working memory, visual spatial reasoning, reading, symbols, numbers, etc. to help with understanding learning differences and accommodations. So Isabelle had to sit in a cubicle and stare at a computer and click on a mouse for fifteen minutes and it was awful. When he was a kid, David was pulled from class, he had no idea how long it was going to take, there was a person sitting there who was reading from a book and asking him questions. For kids, a level of buy-in becomes very important, it's hard to get data when you're a willing participant. For David, his first neuropsych showed how unwilling he was to participate, because it was something he was forced to do because there was “something wrong” and they were looking for what was wrong. This is not don't like this anymore. It's important to talk to someone who has been assessed to see how they liked their assessment. You can get a second opinion. There are people who specialize in different areas of neuropsychological testing. And someone who is great at diagnosing ADHD may not be great at diagnosing autism or vice versa. And up until 7 years ago or so, it was impossible to have both autism and ADHD be a primary diagnosis; which connected to insurance company lobbying when the DSM was being updated, ensuring that the rates of certain conditions wouldn't skyrocket because that would impact insurance coverage and ability to cover/deny and all kinds of political and social isms. The history of diagnoses and what makes the cutoffs incorporates layers of ableism, racism, sexism, homophobia…all kinds of oppression. David names how important it was an opening when you could have a combined AuDHD diagnosis because it started to mean that these diagnoses of deficiency, and all the stereotypes around all autistics being nonspeakers or having high support needs, started to get busted and it became more encompassing, maybe even of strengths? It's possible for us to be complex beings, being perceived as having ADHD or autism in another context. We are the keepers of the stigma, it was the ‘last thing we wanted to be.' The other day, Isabelle's kid went to the doctor, and she always felt the doctor was annoyed with her for being so literal and asking so many detail-oriented questions. Her kid answered the doctor's question of “does your throat hurt?” By checking in and saying “No.” And she had a lightbulb flash and realized he was taking the doctor literally. So she tells her kid “You and me, we both take things really literally and answer questions extremely honestly. I think the doctor means when she asks if your throat hurts, she means across the last week or so and not necessarily all the time or right now.” And he answers, “YES!” And she saw the doctor warm up to her kid and to her and she felt the difference, and maybe it was the vulnerability or the disclosure. For David's friend, there was a significant amount of distrust in the world, there was a pattern of miscommunication and people asking you things that they don't mean, when they learned they were autistic, their last instinct was to tell someone. But when they came back from the dentist, they talked about how much the light was bothering them, they gave me some glasses and made it so much better. David can't make us all believe we are safe, we can feel cared for when we tell people what we need and they respond. Statistically, some of the time, your need won't be missed and until recently, Isabelle didn't know she really needed, she would've said words like “anxious” and “please give me more time" 

Isabelle shares the results of her neuropsych with David: she is AuDHD! As a grown human learning she has AuDHD (ADHD + Autism Spectrum Disorder), what does it mean to 'get a neuropsych?' What even IS a neuropsych? Who gets one and why? How does high-masking autism look like for Isabelle? Busting myths, calling out fun factoids, and celebrating this news and the decrease of suffering it has brought to gain self-understanding and acceptance. ---Isabelle is SO EXCITED to see David's face. Because for the last few recording sessions she hasn't been able to see his face. And now she can see his face. She doesn't know she misses it, and David is wagging his tail and doesn't know if she's making any sense. The checking for understanding is missing. Isabelle got back her neuropsychological assessment results back. She has “severe” ADHD and also, is high-masking autistic. A fairly common question is: do I need to get a neuropsych? What does it do? David names we can all know something but this is different from the actual experience of it. Are there electrodes to your head? How many magnets are you exposed to? Is there a flowchart? Isabelle doesn't know a ton about assessments but she knows a little more now. So, for each job title or profession, you can administer different types of assessments, which involve data from interviews, and written/verbal tests—and a “neuropsychiatric assessment” is conducted by a neuropsychologist, someone who is skilled at administering and interpreting test results as well as being super savvy about neuroscience and the brain. It's a battery of tests that is designed to help someone determine a psychological diagnosis. Isabelle's experience was, she had used up her deductible and one of her kids as well as her and Bobby decided they wanted to learn more about themselves and get a neuropsych. And she wanted to test it out because she always had a little more mustard on the hot dog of ADHD, more auditory sensory stuff. So Isabelle went in for about an hour long interview and asked me a lot of directive, specific questions. No electrodes, sitting in a cozy office. She was asking questions about friendship, life history type questions about her childhood. With ADHD and Autism, you're talking about a neurodevelopment condition, meaning it's baked in and showing up throughout your life. She was asking a lot of questions about what it was like for Isabelle socially, the years of bullying and taking things very literally, social faux pas, being late to catch on to social subtext or data. And stimming? Which applies to all neurospicy folk. David likens it to a car exhaust—it's not anxiety, it's repetitive movements that let out extra steam and overstimulation, when your senses have taking in too much it helps you release. Isabelle thought it was anxiety! But she…actually isn't very anxious. She likes wearing tight clothes and textures, she flaps her hands and holds her hands like a t-rex. She's realizing how much she would be overloaded after a day, and she would pace, and wiggle her hands, she needs detailed handwriting, and she just wants to be left alone under her weighted blanket. And be crying. She'd say “and I'm overhwlemed because I had a hard day at work!” When for her, she was missing a crucial piece of information. Which is she went to Target, and was under fluorescent lights, and some random stranger talked to her and she didn't understand it, and then when she said “what?” He looked at her funny, and THAT connected more to the state she found herself in than having a bad day at work. Sitting with uncomfortable feelings and anxiety is different—David names that with anxiety, people can be thought of as fragile, and that can be helpful—but when it's applied to someone who is neurodiverse, who isn't fragile, it can be pretty frustrating. David describes how he sits and bounces his leg pretty fast and his whole body will be shaking (best kind!) And David is sitting there stimming, and people turn to him "it's okay, it's just a doctor's office” and they assume he's anxious, but he'as actually in an ADHD stupor and he's bored and waiting and feeling good. So much of how people are perceived has a significant element of judgment. Over and over again because she's sitting still or pacing or rocking on her feet—they read Isabelle as impatient or angry, blew her mind. When you see her rocking back and forth and expressionless she's super happy and chill, but you take it as a signal she needs to mask and explain and do things to signal she's happy and sometimes she doesn't understand it herself so she just says “yes, I am angry.” And she thought she was a liar—because she'd be dishonest, she'd agree with someone else and say “yeah, I'm antsy.” Even if she wasn't. David points out that that's not lying, that's masking. David speaks to how complicated lying is in neurodiversity, because friends will say “I'll see you tomorrow night" but then there's an Impulsive moment and it doesn't happen. How integrity can be perceived, and what you want to own about ourselves. Going back to the assessment process, she had a student in a room and Isabelle likes this because (she's realizing) it helps her play the eye contact game. David describes the hack of looking at people between their eyebrows instead of in their eyes. Isabelle owns that for her, not for every neurons-icy or otherwise human, she feels like she's gazing into a person's soul when she makes direct eye contact. It feels rude to her to look at her eyes without a closer emotional bond and without consent, and she looks a bit higher and eyebrows give her data and when she's looking at someone's eyes its too much. David shares: it's ten times more stimulating to look someone in the eye (10 times more neurons fire). WHAT?! yes. Isabelle is sobbing and confused saying “am I crazy? Am I making up that I am on the spectrum for some weird reason?” She was also listening to see if getting a neuropsych is worthwhile for her (for school or work accommodations)? ADHD was so obvious to Isabelle, but this was causing her distress: the idea and theme in her life of being the last to know something obvious. Increased understanding reduces suffering—what are choices? What are your needs? So much about what shouldn't or should? What parts of things can you embrace v. ‘Toughing it out.' Isabelle was in there after an hour and some change. Bobby also went in for a half hour and came out and got resources on ADHD and doesn't seem like he'd get a lot out of a neuropsych and if so, it's not causing any pain, and maybe you already know what you know and you don't go through this? Side note, this is not a prerequisite for self-diagnosis. This is a systemic hurtle, it can help you understand the world around you or help you get accommodations around specific areas of work, v. Being in school. But bear in mind, it's not just for kids.

Chelsea Kunz chats with Francesca Phillips, mindset and self development coach, writer, podcaster, and founder of The Good Space.  We dive into:✨ The Motherhood transition and identity✨ Her ADHD diagnosis—the grief, the growth, and the unexpected gifts it brought✨ Creating more than we consume✨ Taking the self out of self-development and making it more community-based✨ Daily routine hacks that have transformed her life Francesca brings so much wisdom, warmth, and actionable advice to this conversation—I know you'll love it.Resources & Links:The Good Space SubstackThe Good Space PodcastIG @FindYourGoodSpaceTikTokSoul Slumber Party Soul Slumber Party InstagramSoul Slumber Party TikTok Soul Slumber Party FacebookShow Inquiries soulslumberpartypod@gmail.com

Isabelle and David welcome back Marcus Soutra, co-founder of Eye to Eye and founder of For the Good Consulting, and explore the nature of authenticity, "coolness" and the meaning of masking with nation-wide advocacy expert and fellow ADHD and LD-er. How did being "cool" go from being rich and unaffected to being authentic and open about ND/LD identities? From the loneliness and high masking rates of ADHDers, to Abercrombie & Fitch t-shirts and social media, the ways ND culture has approached masking and unmasking.----Isabelle talks about how being wealthy and affording the performance/clothes of ‘coolness' growing up was Abercrombie & Fitch back in her high school days--these were expensive clothes that you had to get at the mall and were part of the performance of being 'cool.' And what about how much of coolness, at least for a time, was defined by money, or access to certain expensive clothing brands (like Abercrombie and Fitch) What it means to perform and be high masking, for her. There is a coolness factor, the kid who can pick up what's cool has an advantage over the kid who doesn't. Marcus sums it up: are you able to fit in and be embraced by the neurotypical world? And if you can't, there's the loner path, the bully path? The empathy he has for the bully path—they were, in his past, the LD/ND kids who were dealing with loneliness and not masking well and it was their way of finding their way to a role in the school community. 60% of people with ADHD say they mask on regular basis and 33% say there is a loneliness to the experience of having ADHD. Then there's also the pain of being high-masking or being accepted by the neurotypical world, how little practice you have at sitting with who you really are, and finding a stable sense of self. There is a way to be a self to fit in that is not the same as an authentic, self-confident knowing-who-you-are self. The difference between doing it in a healthy way v. doing it in a way to survive. Hard to know what parts of you are okay, and when you're blending into a neurotypical world, there's a significant advantage of being able to read the rooms around social cues. Marginalized senses of self are real, having to exist believing you're less than. Or believing if the mask ever falls, it's terrifying. Isabelle names that there's a management around masking and the layers, like she can unmask and say “I have ADHD!” but she doesn't say, “I have ADHD and I screwed up the finances again so I can't afford the school bill.” Something for her connects coolness to unaffectedness, not being vulnerable, or not caring what others think. Beyond the unique person who owns where they are, where does coolness come from in our culture? Marcus responds that it's often the people at the top of the social hierarchy, it's the celebrities, the role models.  Growing up for Marcus, there were the most attractive movie stars who were dyslexia, like Tom Cruise, Orlando Bloom, not Paul Giamatti. When it came to Aspergers (previous name for low support need Autism, check out more in depth on this history below) or Autism (before it was known as Autism Spectrum Disorder or ASD) were superheroes, like RainMan, Temple Grandin, and that was our introduction to the autism community. If you're dyslexic, the way to make it out is to have hotness or have superhero qualities, and if you don't fit into either one of those, good luck. This brings up how celebrities are not so far removed anymore, from the days that you got these bland PR stories or tabloids, now you have people sharing their stories and unmasking on social media. Marcus names that authenticity is now a part of social media, and it's important for celebrities to have a cause, to be speaking to some aspect of this. If we'recynical, it could be a branding strategy, or it could be a shift in culture, because this emphasis on authenticity rather than hiding has been a big change in the last five years. What is Abercrombie & Fitch? The following documentary covers it pretty much:"White Hot: The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie and Fitch" (Netflix documentary)DEFINITIONS:Masking: Often used in referenced to autistic folx (Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)), it also applies to folx with ADHD, OCD, and all kinds of neurodivergence (ND) and learning differences (LD), like dyslexia, dycalculia, dyspraxia, dysgraphia, etc. It's the idea that you have to wear a neurotypical "mask" to be accepted or to engage in a world made for those that are neurotypical. You 'pretend' as if you brain and nervous system work in ways they don't. It can be (and feel like) a matter of survival. From a great article on the topic:“For many neurodivergent people, masking is a survival tool for engaging in neurotypical societies and organizations. Masking (also called camouflaging) is the artificial performance of social behaviors deemed more “socially acceptable” in a neurotypical culture.”For more on Marcus Soutra:www.For the Good Consulting.comSoutra is a dynamic, award-winning advocate, leader, and trailblazer in the field of neurodiversity (ND). An ND individual himself and former classroom teacher turned social entrepreneur, he co-founded and led Eye to Eye, scaling the organization's impact on thousands of schools and individuals across the United States. A sought-after speaker, Soutra has delivered compelling talks on stages worldwide, from Harvard to Tokyo, has appeared in dozens of television broadcasts and podcasts,  and has been featured in leading publications including Forbes, The Hill, and Philanthropy Digest. In recognition of his transformative work, he received an honorary doctorate from his alma mater in the spring of 2024.As the founder of For The Good Consulting, Soutra now supports organizations dedicated to driving systemic change for individuals furthest from opportunity. He resides in Brooklyn, NY, with his wife, an educator and learning specialist, where together they continue to advocate for a more equitable world for all students.------Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Isabelle and David welcome back Marcus Soutra, co-founder of Eye to Eye and founder of For the Good Consulting, and ask an interesting question of this nation-wide advocacy expert and fellow ADHD and LD-er: how has life in schools changed for neurodivergent kids, especially now that some of us are parents/educators/in charge? Are kids still afraid, as David was, of having to go to the nurses' office? And how has what's "cool" been redefined in the past decades? From trauma modes to collared shirts, from shifting ADHD from a diagnosis to an identity, the three explore perspectives on masking (AKA using energy to appear as neurotypical), which can be both a poison and a salve.----David wonders, given that Marcus travels across the continental United States…what is he seeing as patterns in neurodivergent culture? Marcus describes that he sees the elder millennials having kids who are now being identified as being neurodivergent, and naming, “The trauma ends with me,” and they're refusing to hand this off to the next generation, and because a generation that grew up with these labels are now turning into parents, school leaders, caregivers, people in charge. David likens this to growing up in an earlier generation where he was taught to toughen up, to take the knocks and handle it. Isabelle relates this to how when you're living in survival mode, you can't also be processing the trauma and making meaning of it, you first have to survive—and part of survival mode is to have tunnel vision, to stay tough, to not pause to feel. So it would make sense for a generation that maybe always was in survival mode to try to pass that on to their kids in the form of “toughen up.” She relates to wanting to break this cycle, though, so hard, as a parent. And also—what does David mean by the “boy named Sue” generation? (Answer: it's a reference to a Johnny Cash song, see below). Marcus describes how this compares to other movements, where something that used to be a diagnosis or label is then taken back as an identity. As he has ADHD, he was hoping this change would happen so much faster, in his small, privileged ND community this change happened so rapidly. It does take these generational shifts and changes to make these things stick. David names that individually, we all have individual struggles that rub up against the system. It felt like school was meant to take parts of us away, it was like an eraser trying to shave parts off. But we are be keepers of that. In school there was no concept of advocating for an accommodation, it was just: do you want to look weird? Leaving class early to go get his meds. How has this changed for kids and adults? It's hard to generalize because “you know one neurodivergent person, you know one neurodivergent person.” But having an open conversation about something and talk about it and acknowledge and not other it—it does set it up for students to have a teacher they can talk to and ask for what they need (even one adult in that building). The needle has moved from the average high schooler even knowing what dyslexia/ADHD/any ND or LD is. Marcus wasn't bummed out about dyslexic, but back in high school, it was other people were going to see him being different. He refused to get accommodations for the third time, because if he got accommodations for it, he wouldn't take the SAT at the same time. Isabelle remembers that as a full body memory, taking the SAT being a production back in the day and even in her own experience being bussed on the short bus into a different school for a Gifted program and how it signaled you were different but also you didn't want to belong to this select tribe, either.  David names: different is dangerous in some ways, not just for kids but for adults, too. You walk into a room and everyone is wearing a blue “I'm here for a reason” shirt and you might slowly back out of the room and go “I don't belong.” Trying to be like everyone else is both the salve and the poison—it helps keep us save when we're masking—what does everyone else is doing? It helps us mask, but David's first time being a room where people admitted they were neurodivergent, Grady was bouncing a racket ball, the relief and joy you feel when you can join in being more authentically yourself. Isabelle is thinking of the “Cool Bean” book (see below) and how in that story, the beans are ‘cool' not just because they are performing as cool and have style and whatnot, but also because they are willing to take risks and help those who are being bullied or laughed at, that are able to stand up for others and themselves in a way. This is so different than ‘coolness' as Isabelle experienced it in her little bubble growing up in suburban Chicago, where coolness felt way more about avoiding being targeting and felt meaner and scarier and more about social power and wielding it (with meanness). Marcus names how his masking helped him in a way; he didn't know if he could get away with getting into trouble so he would know how to appear wearing a collared shirt and combed hair and befriend his teachers so that he would get on their good side. David describes how with ‘coolness,' it could be more about performing as if, rather than actually being it—like Marcus wasn't actually friends with his teachers but he had the appearance of it, and how often we take those appearances of coolness and roll with it. Isabelle wonders—what about the privilege of masking? Like the way people who mask more easily and slot into neurotypical expectations have privileges and also—‘detecting' what's cool? And what about how much of coolness, at least for a time, was defined by money, or access to certain expensive clothing brands (like Abercrombie and Fitch) What it means to perform as if you are confident in who you are, Johnny Cash's “Boy Named Sue” (live at San Quentin, 1969)Cool Beans book (by Jory John) read aloud (by Harper Kids)Smart Cookie (also by Jory John) read aloud (by Magical Little Minds) about learning differences/neurospicyness according to Isabelle"White Hot: The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie and Fitch" (Netflix documentary)------Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Isabelle and David continue to talk with David's brother's friend, Aaron, and dig deep into why winding down and going to sleep is the hardest transition of all: because you're staring into a black hole of no dopamine for hours! And also, a lot of traditional sleep hygiene tricks may not work. Folks with ADHD have higher rates of sleep apnea, among other sleep disorders, and also, can do with staying away from preferred activities before bed. This, sleep tips and tricks, and recognizing the value of being open about your neurodivergence...as well as some really good callbacks to the previous two episodes (096 and 097) regarding "St. Elmo's Fire's" amazing theme song.—-Isabelle and Aaron wonder: what's with this PDA business (persistent drive for autonomy/persistent demand avoidance)? David explains: It's hard for us to connect a learned moment with an experience, it's hard for us to take a moment we're learning now and take it into the future, and we're distractable. If we're in a place with any shame, guilt, or anxiety, distraction becomes highly reinforcing. We are highly reinforced by not paying attention to what we want to pay attention to it. We're not seeing the long term consequence, we don't understand what we're doing to our future by not doing it in this moment--delay of gratification and response cost. Like, what did you do today? “I watched three seasons of Scrubs and ate a buffet of Indian food.” We can't claim any wins at the end of the day, but in the moment it felt so nice, it was a distraction. Neurologically we don't get a success, norepinephrine —you feel anxious, and it leads into their evening, and for kids and adults, if you're really anxious about the next day, you don't want to go to sleep. “The longer I'm up today, the longer today is! I don't have to face tomorrow if I haven't gone to bed yet.” David has been thinking about this with his friend and colleague Noah, based on this book, Dopamine Nation. If we're not accommodated or assisted by something during a transition, and then you have nothing else to do, you are looking down a long dark hole of no dopamine—that's why the evening can look so hard. The road to sleep to extra awful, you have to sit still, you have to tolerate frustration and still yourself enough to go to sleep. David names: we are considered overtired if it takes less than 15 minutes to fall alseep—most ADHD folks, as an accommodation to not sit in the discomfort of staying still with no dopamine, don't hit the bed until they are beyond exhausted and just crash. Isabelle and Aaron disbelieve this. Isabelle does not compute that this is how people live, that people just lay there for 8, 10, 15 minutes and slowly go to sleep, this has never happened to her. Aaron gets anxious that he won't fall asleep in 5 minutes and then can't stand the guided meditation.  David will be snoring watching tv on the couch with his partner but doesn't confirm he is “tired." with Delayed sleep phase onset, this is a thing we struggle with. Accommodations for sleep? Did you use enough physical energy during the day? You can't go into a preferred activity before bed—you have to find weird shows or things that are interesting but not so interesting it will keep you awake. What is a preferred activity? If you're super into a video game, for example—if you can't sleep, don't play the video game. The things that you prefer and wake you up, engage your hyperfocus. What's the boring video game that's like paint by numbers? Isabelle will read nonfiction when she's not feeling very tired, but if she reads compelling fiction she will stay awake. Because, who wants to sit in boredom? These are tips that are not sleep hygiene or what you'd expect. So many tactics to help a kid fall asleep are there to help them get bored enough to stay still and not reach for a preferred activity. The most important task in the brain's development is boredom: One of the most important things is to experience boredom. It's really important and yet we run from it all the time. A neurotypicaly person needs to encounter a certain amount of boredom to get creative. But with ADHD, we are bored a 1000's of times more often in a day than a neurotypical does in a day, and the feeling of being bored is so caustic and our brain is so creative and thinking of fun things all the time. But because we encounter so many micromoments of boredom, it makes it really hard to tolerate the 10 or 15 minutes to fall asleep. Or try something on in the store. The moment of a transition that's boredom and hurts. When do we want to sit with it, when do you want to avoid it? David tries to stop listening to a D&D podcast he wants to, he's trying to train himself to be awake still and do it at a time and then fall asleep, instead of falling asleep when he crashes. AND there are literal sleep disturbances. People with ADHD have a much higher likelihood of getting a CPAP machine and sleep apnea, cause our physical necks are bigger (what?!). We have to think of social conventions made to busy people as problematic: are you folding your underwear because you're worried about them wrinkling? So many clothes are not wrinkling! Clean your clothes, but don't think you're failing at life if you're not folding laundry. Aaron requests more on sleep, and refers to an older episode by name "I'm not tired, you're tired!” David wonders: what would a Aaron tell his younger self if he had a 20 second time machine. He'd like to tell himself: “be brave, it's hard, it gets better. And look into ADHD earlier." The whole sequence of anxiety he's had to deal with has been altered by knowing about ADHD and being medicated. It's not just the medicine, it's finally having a reason for how his interior life is the way he is. If there's no reason, it's just your fault—why is Aaron a slob in his private places? It's not a character defect. But some people with ADHD are clean and tidy! Isabelle is one of these people—she just got a label maker and has been labeling her cabinets and pantry with things but then putting exclamation points at the end, so it says things like “BEANS!” “PASTA!” Referring back to Ep097, David names that Isabelle is a promoter: of pantry staples. But for Isabelle, she doesn't mind if others are making messes, she just needs things to be in order because otherwise they will move on her, it's a way to accommodate her working memory and find things again later. There isn't a right way to fit into this culture,. There's parts of ADHD culture—and theory of group dynamics, that says that people within a group have more things different between each other than they do with those outside of the group: ADHD is no different. Like medically: with depression, you can sleep not at all, or sleep a lot: these are opposite things and yet they all fall under the same diagnosis. Some things we can all relate to, like the way that we are hurt by our own integrity (not doing what we wanted or said we would do), our celebration and glee at remembering to do or finally doing the boring thing! Recognizing you have ADHD is a bit like parts of you being seen before, and suddenly all these associated pains --you don't know why you can't do what you want to do, and it has be to you. Aaron ties that back to his calvinist upbringing: “I wanted to do this, why did I forget?" It's the internal monologue we have to chance. There are parts of us that in a wheelchair and we keep coming at stairs. Isabelle references “I wanna to be a man in motion? All I need is this pair of wheels. Take me where the eagle's fly: St. Elmo's Fire."  ...

Isabelle and David continue to talk with David's brother's friend, Aaron, and contemplate why folks with ADHD can be so enthusiastic and excited about interests, people, etc. Is it because we are like puppies who are starved for reinforcement (dopamine)? Or does it come from living a life on the outside and the joy of connection when it has been missed for so long. With callbacks to Greatest American Hero (See Ep095) as well as the real story behind the theme song to St. Elmo's Fire.—-David describes how borrowing from LeDerick Horne and his brilliant theory around leadership, that folks in leadership can have a number of qualities, including being promoters. Folks with ADHD can be natural promoters, and being a promoter is actually a form of leading others. With the caveat that we must be into what we promote. And how excited we are about people and how we talk people up. David names that perhaps this has something to do with how we are starving (for dopamine) and intimacy and connection and relatedness can help us fill that void, we reach for the connection and get excited. Isabelle wonders if this relates to an autism(ASD)-style special interest, how she perpetually is excited and has a working principle that everyone could find common ground if we just found a shared hobby or special interest. David likes to tell people on airplanes that he's a car salesman so he can talk and listen to his heart's content but he doesn't have to focus on what he does. Isabelle names that even though David is not very savvy about cars, he could sell a car because he's such a natural salesperson. Isabelle names that anxiety around overselling things, she might encourage people to try new things, take new risks, explore and play—but her working memory is so poor that she doesn't know if she oversold, she has to refer to notes or something as reference. David loved serving as fun because there was a high degree of risk and failing so it helped me remember things. David names that we are not starving puppies with watery eyes, but we are highly susceptible to be reinforced, so when we see someone else's tail wagging, it shoots up our levels of dopamine, we are highly reinforced. The establishing operation—social connection and social mastery is water for us, like the water-deprived rats being reinforced in Skinner boxes. The environment makes Isabelle's puppy quality feel safe or good or not; and can lead to her feeling starved of that connection and reinforcement. The feeling when you have no one wagging their tail back at you—how many mistakes we do make, how many social gaffs and miscues, and big ones. It's almost like we find ourselves so marginalized, its like finding a prison gang when we find people who get us. What does it do to your sense of self when you can't do what you want with your morning—how that deflates your sense of self. Isabelle feels like she shares a bond with the other parents and caregivers that are always running late—it flares up imposter syndrome and “if you only saw me five minutes ago." David reframes this as "if only you saw what it took me to get here and I made it!" Aaron is a master of social engineering, even though he's almost always good at it and social interaction, he remains scared the whole time. The anxiety hits because if it doesn't work out, he takes the hits hard: he can take a lot of them, but they hit hard. David shares one of his hits—he was spending a lot of money for grad school, wanting to read all the books for all his classes, he was going to learn it all...but he didn't do any of the readings for one of his classes. The class was talking about this person out loud, “Ed Nafoah” — he was like "what is this Nafoah guy talking about ?” and everyone in class is like “Edna? Her name is Edna Foa.” It took five to ten minutes for David to feel the cabin pressure returning and the lights to come up and to return to his body. Aaron points out that his impulsivity could carry him through it—David had a ballast and in grad school and they were talking about different psychosocial backgrounds, step or two based on privilege. The professor holds up a dollar and says "the first person to…can have this dollar?” He's never seen someone authorized like that. Aaron sings the theme song from “The Greatest American Hero” which we all know, and the superhero suit is David's impulsivity. Who is Edna Foa?Greatest American Hero trailer (he is LITERALLY "walking on air")Story behind St. Elmo's Fire theme song, "Man in Motion" here's the music video and the song A quick synopsis of the backstory behind the song (Source: Wikipedia)And an interview with the songwriter/singer, John Parr, discussing how he came up with the idea and how he snuck it in to be the theme song for this 1980's Brat Pack Extravaganza. For more about our guest:Aaron Michael Ullrey (he/him)Writing and Editing Specialist, Editor in ChiefResearch Associate, Transcendence and TransformationCenter for the Study of World Religion (CSWR) at Harvard Divinity SchoolInstructor of Religious StudiesThe University of HoustonInstructor of Sanskrit LanguageUniversity of Naropa -----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Isabelle and David welcome David's brother's friend, Aaron, who, as a recently diagnosed ADHDer, brings up the idea of if ADHD is a superpower, it's like the super suit in “Greatest American Hero:” a suit given with a manual that got lost on the first day of use. What happens when you find your ‘ingredient' for doing the things you previously struggled with and now can do? How does your self esteem and sense of self efficacy impact how you handle days when that ingredient is missing? This plus being puppy dogs together, tackling Mt. Laundry, and why intimacy beats contempt.----David and Isabelle welcome Aaron, a longtime friend of David's brother, who was recently diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. In thinking about ADHD, he thinks about this show from the 1970's, “Greatest American Hero,” where this teacher is given a superpower suit by some aliens, who also give him a manual for the suit, and he loses it on the first day, so he goes around saving people but also is seeking this manual and he always gives it up to save someone. He resonated with this character so much, and for Aaron, medication made a huge difference—he is able to wake up and do the thing and then he is able to do. He's been medicated for anxiety and depression his whole life and taking medication for ADHD doesn't make those go away, but it helps him be the person he always wanted to be. Isabelle so resonates with the suit metaphor and how she and Bobby attempted to make their home more ADHD friendly (see “Keeping House While Drowning” and all the ADHD friendly home tips below!) And she forgot her medication and instead of spiraling into anxiety, when she realized why she stalled out all day, she was able to recognize it was “oh, I was missing my ingredient.”  David points out that it's not just medication, because medication is not for everyone, it can be so many things, once we find out what the ingredient is—working out in the morning, the coffee routine, whatever it might be--when you all of a sudden miss it, you can pinpoint it and recover. Even more so, Aaron describes how it is a conscious habit, as a child of the 80's, he is not about the idea of 'working on his self-esteem,' but realizes through therapy and his conversations with David that it keeps coming up for a reason, there are wounds there that do shift when you are able to do some of the things you previously struggled with. David can recognize those nasty voices in our heads, the angry voice as a teenager to get himself to do things. Based on his arbitrary math, while it takes 6 weeks to build a neurological bridge, it takes 6 years to build a habit. He chose to make excitement that it will be over the habit over the anger over having to do it. Whether it's medication or nervousness or anxiety, David recognizes that something has to stimulate him so he has to choose his path and practice it. Aaron remembers his psychologist friend Dave 20 years ago sharing the 3 paths to happiness (he was studying at the time)—the first is excitement, the second is contempt (at least temporarily), and the third is intimacy. Aaron is excitable and comes from a contemptuous family and wants to focus on intimacy. This makes Isabelle make awkward spiders with her hands, the idea of gossiping and spreading shame makes you feel reassured and safe but also brings with it a threat and temporary condition; for Isabelle, intimacy means playfulness, curiosity, a willingness to see what happens next, and as David defines it: a shared vulnerability. Aaron ordered up BRAIN STUFF, and sadly David has no links, so Isabelle tries to fill it by talking about studies that connect to how we associate the negative talk about someone with the gossiper, not the subject of the gossip. David names that he does think ADHD is a superpower with a missing manual, and the tricky part is let's say we're talking unbridled enthusiasm: it's a superpower and contagious and also has an effect on the recipient. David names being okay with someone not wanting to be the recipient at this current moment. THE THINGS WE MENTIONED:Greatest American Hero Opening Credits (Worth it to finally see where this song comes from and for the flying haphazardly imagery)How to Keep House While Drowning by KC DavisSo You've Been Publicly Shamed by Jon Ronson"Punishing or praising gossipers: How people interpret the motives behind negative gossip shapes its consequences" (source: Social and Personality Psychology Compass)-----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Break free from the overwhelm, shame, and constant battle with your ADHD. Order the Something Shiny ADHD Toolkit Series - available now until January 2nd, 2025! Does ADHD make you an overly optimistic puppy dog? Or the sprinkle of trickster magic in someone else's day? And is there really a "better" way to be, optimistic or pessimistic? From David being a prophetic hot dog vendor at Wrigley Field, to trickster archetypes, to the differences between vulnerable in the process of something or being vulnerable at the end, Isabelle and David dig into a totally unique way to consider optimism and pessimism as adaptive. ----Once upon a time, David sold hot dogs at Wrigley Field, yelling out “here's your hot dogs!” To do that, he talked differently, throwing the accent in so thick. This was during the McGuire/Sosa run streak, and he would say “Sammy's going to hit a home run to you in the 7th” and he had a 50% chance of being right and he made it a great time for those kids. This makes Isabelle think of Tricia Hersey, the Nap Minister, who has done all this work on systemic racism and the Black American experience, and rest as resistance or a form of activism. She also is talking about lot about trickster energy. Isabelle thinks about this in the form of ableism, how she talks and writes about trickster energy, and making magic in something that feels subversive and is part of the time as well as not a part of the time. Like David is performing the role of the hot dog vendor, but then because he predicts the ‘future' to the kid, he adds a twist to it and he becomes a full human, like more than a role. Isabelle's shortcuts often fall around domestic labor. David likes how it elevates the hot dog vendor to more than an NPC—after the game, if he predicted it was right, reclaims that he was actually a main character. But also it was greater than what David was doing. Isabelle notices that this lines up with a neurodivergent strength with ADHD, the going on tangents, the divergent tangents. Isabelle names that recently things have been really tough personally and professionally, and yet she has this relentless optimism; Isabelle can't help but bring in the playful energy. Is her optimism really about ADHD? David names that optimism is not about accuracy, it has to do with process. Optimism is: ‘it's not a loss until it is,” and you can be miserable for 3 weeks leading up to something or miserable for the one moment you feel the loss. But also, David warns, optimism can be dangerous when it comes to expectations. If you expect a piece of (astronaut) ice cream when you get home every day, it is a set up when you get upset you didn't get the astronaut ice cream. Optimism is radically accepting that we haven't lost until we have. In one hour we can feel sad, but right now, we can still win. For David it's how he can sit with his nervous system, it's changing the meaning of “in process.” Isabelle really likes this, as she is relentlessly optimistic. If she is more willing to take risks, if she doesn't have a big response cost, she doesn't have a great estimation of how hard or long something is going to be, a poor working memory, and it would track that overall she would get smacked in the face by a 2 x 4 and then wake up the next day and forget it ever happened. She doesn't remember the fails until she's failing again, and anything is possible until it isn't, or she remembers the fails but this time, it could be different. And, is part of that really a choice she's making or is it just a shortcut, a mental shortcut—you could call it optimism that she always leaves the house not accounting for traffic because she believes in parking magic. It would be way harder for her to keep all the possibilities in mind. David asks: are you forgetting to account for traffic? That's executive functioning stuff. Or are you optimistic about there being no traffic? If you're leaving late thinking you're going to get a good parking spot, the memory deficit reinforces this perspective. But isn't it easier to live with miracles and magic and not borrowing trouble? You're not ruining your present moment by fretting about something that hasn't happened yet. But if Isabelle could have accounted for her executive functioning maybe she could've avoided some thing. When we are struggling to pull out optimism in an area, we're looking at areas of self-esteem. It's really hard to be optimistic if you don't have a sense of mastery in who you are and what you're doing. You have to have a sense that you are enough or that you matter, you have to have some power or some say in a world. Survival mode, by necessity removes optimism, makes you pessimistic. When you've survived trauma, which is anything that overwhelms your sense of hope, what devalued or dehumanized you or left you feeling out of control, and it was something that Isabelle was internalizing something was the worst. Back in the day, in older versions of the DSM, included in PTSD was the idea of a ‘foreshortened future,” there's not way she could survive or make it through another developmental state. When you're in survival mode, you think you're getting all the important data, black and white, like an old news reel, you think you're getting all the information, but you're getting very little data, which can be both helpful and hurtful. Does optimism indicate the opposite of the trauma response? Is it an indicator you're not in the survival mode? But David names: optimism is not a better, pessimism is not a worse—both are accommodations and have their uses. Maybe you're more vulnerable in process, and less vulnerable at the end, so being optimistic is an adaptation for you. For someone else who is more vulnerable at the end and less vulnerable in process, being pessimistic would be an adaptation. We surrender parts of ourselves when we try to be somebody else, and David is a proponent of humanism, that humans as a whole make sense, and we're doing our best. He's not interested in optimism being used to invalidate pessimism or pessimism being used to invalidate optimism. NPC - Non-Playable or Non-Player Character: a term from gaming that refers to characters that cannot be played by the person playing the game. (Source: wikipedia).Nap Minister, Tricia Hersey and her book, Rest is ResistanceTrickster Archetype: (from Wikipedia): "a character in a story who exhibits a great degree of intellect or secret knowledge and uses it to play tricks or otherwise disobey normal rules and defy conventional behavior." Examples Isabelle mentioned include: Loki (norse mythology and the Marvel Universe), Anansi (Ashanti folklore)ADHD's links to optimism:The Positive Aspects of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder: A Qualitative Investigation of Successful Adults with ADHD (Source: ADHD Springer Journal)Incautiously Optimistic: Positively Valenced Cognitive Avoidance in Adult ADHD (Source: NIH/Cogn. Beh. Pract.)

Break free from the overwhelm, shame, and constant battle with your ADHD. Order the Something Shiny ADHD Toolkit Series - available now until January 2nd, 2025! How do you make your time off the most efficiently relaxing? Or unlock a peak game night or other family time experience? And why are we so hell bent on intensity of experience, versus frequency? David and Isabelle straddle talk of perfectionism, their own relationships to building time-off experiences, and how frequency is our friend, as well as the idea that perfectionism is not a dirty word, but perhaps relates to masking, needs for structure and predictability in neurodivergence.----Isabelle describes how her and Bobby would take time away just the two of them, and realized how time would move so differently, especially if they just let themselves hang out and not put extra pressure on the time off. David names that we focus so much on intensity of experiences (for Isabelle's family, the most intense all-inclusive Disney trip EVER!) versus frequency, when actually, you need more frequent interactions in order to have a template for how to be with each other. So maybe we do more time off or together time—more often, and lower the bar for what we have to do in that time? Isabelle struggles with this, however, in how she tackles family game nights, as family dinner might be something of a challenge for folks (let's not assume all families are functional and you want to spend time with each other, either). She goes to great lengths to set it up, get the snacks, the music, the setting…and she always wants to make it 2% better, but it often backfires or doesn't match up to any expectations. This brings her to her new hyper fixation, on perfectionism (see book she names, below). She describes how there's a type of perfectionist that seeks to have every part of a process go well, and if one part goes wrong, they throw it all away. This relates for her to being so in the present moment and struggling with what happened just before or just after, so she wants to nail each part of a get together. David does not relate to this, it brings up the fact he knows nothing can be perfect and in fact, he felt so ‘not enough' for much of his life, that he does not carry this. Isabelle describes how there's this type of perfectionism where you work really hard but you try to appear effortless (effortlessly styled, cool, fit, etc.) and David names how he wants to unlock peak experiences with minimal effort. Isabelle and David get into a debate about whether or not David might be a type of perfectionist, if you think of perfectionism as ambitions or goals or striving toward and ideal, and Isabelle's own journey exploring if she has autism, makes her think that maybe this is how she uses scripts in social settings, like she knows what her role is and what is expected of her and she wants to do it well. David names that if he puts great effort into it, then it doesn't count, except when he's making “D's Nuts,” a holiday spiced nut roasted sugared nut blend that blows minds in little mason jars every year. Isabelle finally gets what David means; he's going for peak efficiency, like he puts in no effort, and it's a HUGE win for the person. With D's nuts, it's extremely labor intensive and he's proud of it. Isabelle likes to give people shortcuts, like discount codes and bargains and feels so seen when David names he has benefited from her use of this many a time. The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control by Katherine Morgan SchaflerTypes of perfectionists (per the book above, taken from Medium summary article)Classic perfectionist — They attempt to control essentially everything. This is the type we're all thinking of. They like structure and consistency. They tend to hold themselves to extremely high standards and are overachievers.Parisian perfectionist — This type wants to be perfectly liked by everyone in an effortless way. They have a sense of ideal connection and tend to be people pleasing to bridge that gap.Procrastinating perfectionist — These folks want the conditions to be ideal before they get started on a project. They have an ideal notion of how something might go, and are afraid of having it ruined with the reality of actually getting started.Messy perfectionist — This doesn't mean physically messy. What it means is that these folks have a hard time following through once a project has gotten underway. They believe that they can focus on multiple things without having to give anything up, but frequently don't finish what they started and have multiple projects in various states of completion at any given time.Intense perfectionist — These people can be extremely demanding of others. Think the boss that is exacting and keeps you at the office late. They have an ideal outcome or vision and are willing to be extremely unlikable in order to bring it to fruition.David makes “D's nuts.” For those not familiar with Chicago accents, here's an old SNL sketch that makes big use of this.-----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Just in time for the mounting stress at the end of the year, here's an ADHD-friendly gift-giving guide! David and Isabelle have ideas, accommodations, and acceptance around giving and receiving gifts with neurodivergent folx. How hard it is to buy things for folx who impulsively purchase all (cheaper) things for themselves? How to tackle the mystery of huge shopping carts and no good memory if you bought the thing after all, or not? What to get your brilliant neurodivergent child (psss…it's the experience, not the shiny thing!)? And MORE!-----Aside from discussing how Isabelle has a cold and David thinks they could be like Voltron, David describes how he only buys things he can touch or get a use out of: dopamine will make you think something that looks shiny and cool (like a skin in a video game) is the thing to buy, but then the rush fades and your left without something useful. Dopamine releases around the potential of awesomeness, not actually the awesomeness. Think about how quickly something Isabelle gets hooked into having loaded shopping carts at various websites, especially around gift giving—she'll spend two hours hyper focusing on what to get and getting it, but when it comes time to buying something, she freezes and forgets to buy it and then doesn't remember if she bought it or not. David points out this is the inattentive part: the difficulty of making the choice. You also then log a memory of the check out screen (but not if you actually bought the thing or not). The shopping cart loading is externalizing your memory, using an accommodation to assist with working memory as you find things that might be potential gifts for people. David makes a point around buying something with a use case, even more so than quality of experience: can you specifically use it for something? Does it do something other than just sit there? Sometimes we don't want to use something up (like candles) because it feels too precious to use them. David names that he gets overwhelmed with too much stuff: he wants it all, but he doesn't want it all. For example, at a birthday when he got all five video games he wanted, when we get all that we want, all at once, we don't actually want it all. Give him five video games, but give him one each throughout several months. What if you could rotate toys (Isabelle calls this toy store with her kids) and wishes she could do this with herself. They hit upon that subscription boxes as a cool solution. David names as that someone who is impulsive, there is nothing he wants under $20 he hasn't bought for himself. If you're debating getting the expensive thing but caught with decision paralysis, average out how much the thing costs per use (for example, a coffee machine ends up being $1 per cup of coffee for a whole year) and then decide if it's worth the 5% boost in your day. David names finding the win for yourself: finding the win/lose condition and setting yourself up for a win. That includes receiving gifts: make it simple for your gift givers! You like bunnies? Get bunnies. Set up your givers for a win. Isabelle describes loving to browse a store, but hating to have to make a buying decision, while David thinks of the gift that someone would be embarrassed to buy for themselves but could not reject (without it being silly, such as a 15 lb. Bag of gummy bears). Both inattentive and impulsive types of ADHD lead to self-doubt, but it's how many times we touch that doubt: for inattentive type, it's a lot before buying something. For impulsive type, it's huge the moment you hand the gift over and wonder if you haven't made a mistake. Isabelle ponders a giant sized Toblerone, David recalls how disconcerting holding a huge gummy bear actually was. For kids, consider the experience of going to the store and getting to impulsively choose the thing they want for themselves. Preserve the magic of the buy: the parent/guardian/gift giver has zero interest in how great the gift is: if they have buyer's remorse, that's learning, it's important, not a failed gift. What is Voltron? I mean, the logo alone… Quick visual searches (not endorsing any particular brand, just for reference):Giant Gummy BearGiant Toblerone  DAVID'S DEFINITIONS Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD), where you interpret feedback or questions or redirections as being very harsh and personal, and then really take it to heart—even if that's not really what is being communicated to you. Can be present a lot with folx with ADHD.Use case: Does a thing do something other than just sit there? There is a case for how you'd use it.Thoughts on gift givingDopamine releases around the potential of awesomeness, not the actual awesomeness. Make it a win/lose, and set yourself up for a win, and those giving you gifts for a win: pick something you Harness your impulsivity: follow your first instinct. Be outrageous.Don't expect doubt to go away: there's a chaotic variable in giving in a gift, a novel way the person could react.Think about things that people maybe would never buy for themselves but they would not reject (run the scenario, pretend you're mad at the gift you just gave)—for example, two 15 lb. Bags of gummy bears. It'd be silly for someone to reject it and it'd make a funny story if they do.Advice for kids: create a day to go to the store with the kid so they can pick out what they impulsively want that day. Give them the power to choose. Predetermine budget or safety issues, but otherwise, no micromanaging. Even with buyer's remorse, there's a lesson and it's okay. -----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

In today's episode of the Hardcore Self Help Podcast, I sit down with psychologist, professional speaker, and author Dr. Matt Zakreski to explore the concept of neurodiversity and how to create a more supportive world for neurodivergent individuals. Drawing from both personal and professional experiences, Dr. Matt shares his journey as someone who is gifted and ADHD, and how that shaped his understanding and advocacy for neurodivergent folks. We discuss what neurodiversity truly means, highlight differences between neurotypical and neurodivergent brains, and break down why it's crucial to avoid framing neurodivergent individuals as “failed neurotypicals.” Dr. Matt provides practical strategies for understanding executive functioning challenges, improving communication, and fostering more inclusive environments both in schools and in everyday life. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself, raising a neurodivergent child, or simply looking to become a better ally, this episode is packed with insights and guidance to help you understand, accept, and celebrate neurological differences. Chapters: 00:15 — Introduction: Send in Your Questions & Introducing Dr. Matt Zakreski 02:00 — Defining Neurodiversity and Neurodivergence 08:00 — The Performance Cliff: When School Outpaces Natural Ability 11:00 — Common Threads: Executive Functioning and Pragmatic Language in Neurodivergence 17:00 — Brain-Based Differences: Sensory Input, Basal Ganglia, and Emotional Intensity 21:00 — Universal Design in Education: Creating Systems That Work for All 24:00 — Shame, Emotionality, and the Reality of ADHD 28:00 — Inattentive vs. Hyperactive: Recognizing Subtle Signs and Misdiagnoses 33:00 — Rethinking Assessment: Moving Beyond DSM Checklists 38:00 — Why Specialists and Relationships Matter in Mental Health Care 41:00 — Making Therapy Work for Kids: Meeting Them Where They Are 43:00 — The Neurodiversity Playbook: Tools, Strategies, and Action Points 48:00 — Intention vs. Impact: Communicating Clearly and Compassionately 52:00 — Practical Tips for Executive Functioning in Daily Life 54:00 — Final Takeaways: Building Community and Embracing Your Unique Brain About the Podcast I'm Dr. Robert Duff, a clinical psychologist and the host of the Hardcore Self Help Podcast. My mission is to break down complex mental health topics into approachable, actionable advice. Each episode dives deep into mental health, personal development, and practical strategies for thriving. Whether through expert interviews, audience Q&A, or practical tips, this show is all about making meaningful changes without unnecessary jargon or fluff. Guest Links: The Neurodiversity Playbook by Dr. Matt Zakreski: https://www.drmattzakreski.com/the-neurodiversity-playbook Dr. Matt Zakreski's Website: https://www.drmattzakreski.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drmattzakreski/ Connect With Me: Website: https://www.duffthepsych.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/duffthepsych/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DuffThePsych #Neurodiversity #ADHD #Gifted #TwiceExceptional #Autism #ExecutiveFunction #InclusiveEducation #MentalHealth #SelfHelp #PersonalDevelopment

Take two minutes to share your ADHD story at SomethingShinyPodcast.com/Survey! Your input will help us shape future episodes and tools that make a difference for all neurodivergent folks. We can't wait to hear from you!How do you survive holiday travel with ADHD? What about traveling with children, particularly small children? And what happens when you find yourself rushing, leaving things until the last minute, and forgetting your charger once again? David and Isabelle swap stories and share specific tips to traveling and also discuss WHY ARE THERE SOCK NUBBINS AND TAGS. Seriously.-----There can be so much pressure to have a Hallmark, picture-postcard perfect holiday and it's so important to revise those expectations and think about what you actually want to do, for example, maybe it's “we go to the this house, tolerate everyone for 45 minutes, you grab the turkey, I grab the mashed potatoes, and we leave.” And what about the uncomfortable holiday clothes? Isabelle laughs and mentions a brilliant SNL fake ad for Macy's that's all about children's clothing and how uncomfortable it is. David describes this might be where task meets emotionality (for definition, see below)—is the task of the holidays spending time with family? David remembers the holidays being hard, everyone fighting on the way there and then fine when they got home, and wearing uncomfortable clothes, and just wanting to leave and it being awful. Isabelle remembers coming home so late and it was freezing and trying to sleep in the back seat, freezing. David had the experience going to his partner's holiday celebrations and—they don't have ADHD—everyone got along, hung out, sang songs, played piano—and this is real? Friendsgiving is a thing, and you can make choices, what you do for holidays is a choice: like winter is a choice. Anytime you feel trapped or caught in something, changing the language to “I'm choosing to do blank because blank…” with what needs your meeting with it, changes it from you “have to go see Meemaw” You can take the shoulds, musts, and have-to and change it to choices. And maybe Meemaw doesn't care what you wear, she just wants to see you. WHY ARE THERE TAGS IN CLOTHING? And NUBBINS ON SOCKS? We have evolved so many incredible things, we have AI, we have genome sequencing, and we have sock nubbins, and who invented pantyhose and shapewear. David likes shape wear because the underarmour stuff he wears is nice and tight. Isabelle describes that it's more designed to smush you in and sometimes it's great—this is maybe Isabelle's trauma after being a 6 ft woman at 14 year old, so she was fitting into shape wear and pantyhose as a kid and hated it so much and it was so uncomfortable. David always got all these hand-me-down socks that were in a constant state of yawn—now David gets the really tight socks that stay up all day, “look at you sock, staying up all day!” And transitioning back to travel—and sometimes travel is really hard because we're pushing ourselves harder than we should. Having the toolbox is just as important on the airplane or airport, or knowing how long you're waiting with a toolbox. Whoever's doing the traveling, your self care is the most important: you can't control your kids being miserable, they will be, you have to put your oxygen mask, go at your pace, go at your tolerance. Kids will fall apart. You need to be there for them when they do. So what do you need to be there for them? Maybe it's a treat, maybe it's slowing down—take care of you. Pack the day before. And always include an extra day back at home before transitioning back. You can change the day back—the end is always going to be the end of the vacation, but you being able to have a different re-entry ritual into your day to day can be game changing. Isabelle shares some tips from her own front line experiences, such as when driving from Indianapolis from Nashville as part of moving, when she forgot the iPad…and everything else, and her kid was stuck in the way back for hours bored out of their mind. Needless to say, iPads are last steps, so it's a plan B, but it forces them to have lots of plan A—and on this trip, she forgot all the plan B's and A's. And everyone is going to have a meltdown—Isabelle, as mom, will also have a breakdown. It doesn't matter how prepared you are, travel will break you at some point. Travel with kids is courting brilliant memories of chaos, so she anticipates and plans on her having a breakdown. So she tells herself that “I'm a good mom who's reached her limit.” You're trained from babyhood to meet their needs all the time, but it's a set up, the game is rigged, and part of the rigging is us thinking we're never going to lose it ourselves. Maybe it's the rule, not the exception. What about outsourcing, like checking your bags curbside, strapping your kid into the carseat on the plane (because they're used to it and airplane seatbelts do nothing). Be kind to yourself. There's also this idea that a vacation and a trip with kids are two separate things. The labor does not change, but increases, but the expectation for fun and frivolity is also increased, but maybe change the expectations inside. Also okay if it's extra hard because it actually really is. Take the wins. David names that it's very hard to hold dialectics, to opposing truths: you can love your kids and they can be too much, really hard, really frustrating. You need to find yourself a support group that can validate all the truths. For David, being a child who had ADHD, and seeing people with kids travel, and typically things feel better when there isn't as much pressure, when you're not rushing at the last minute, and have everything you need. Accepting that all of those things are going to be harder with ADHD and smiling when those things don't happen is the key. Accept that win, when you actually remember the charger. We can also flip the shame spiral into gratitude because you can maybe get the thing when you arrive, and David has needed to buy pretty much everything on arrival. Anything important, the things you can't live without, phone stuff, medication, certain items, should be carry-ons. If ever possible, don't check a bag, have a very compacted carry on. SNL Fake Macy's commercial for children's uncomfortable clothingDAVID'S DEFINITIONSTASK V. EMOTIONALITYTask: what you're trying to do - the ‘work' of a group or a person. for example: I am finishing my project this weekend.Emotionality: what you do to prepare to do a task - beliefs/fears/assumptions about what you're doingfor example: I'm doing it wrong/right, I always procrastinate, big fear you'll never get it done, dream that someone will come and save you from having to do it, etc. Traveling survival tipsPrep your go-bag, tool kit (and consider several plans, not just one, like the ipad, because batteries die)Kids will fall apart. They will fall apart when they travel. Be there when they do. What do you need to do to be there for them? Go at your pace. Pick up a treat. Do things to make it easier on you. Get ready to leave the night before. Have things packed. Plan to have a day off on...

Take two minutes to share your ADHD story at SomethingShinyPodcast.com/Survey! Your input will help us shape future episodes and tools that make a difference for all neurodivergent folks. We can't wait to hear from you!How do you survive family dinners? Sitting at a table until everyone is done? Overstimulation? Sticky conversations and setting boundaries?  David and Isabelle talk concrete tips for getting through family dinners, and even enjoying them—and the truth behind ear worm songs' lyrics that may pop your Thanksgiving Day Parade Spiderman balloons.----David and Isabelle name that any time you're meeting with family, traveling, disrupting routine, and then you throw in kids—how do we do this? Let's start with dinner, and then work our way back to how you get there. Whenever you're going out to eat with family…family is a tricky word. Family describes ritual—people who get together at different times, don't have to be related. Whoever is in your network, where you go. Kids really need help knowing the story behind people, understanding the story behind Uncle Jack and Aunt Sue—it can help create connecting moments by throwing in novelty. Kids can be really honest and if it's boring, they may ask: “Why are you boring?” Also, we love Aunt Sue. Partners might use this, too, not just kids. Let alone how family stuff can be so loaded, you may not want to share the same room with some people, there can be anxiety, and anticipatory dread. Part when you're going to go visit v. hosting—how do we cope with the different layers of anxiety. With a heavier family situation—bring the toolbox, especially with kids. Before you leave, have a backpack, help your child pick toys (even if they're 14), headphones, and talk about where you can use your phone or play games. What about the interesting power struggle of having kids sit at the table until everyone is finished eating—let's think about that differently, because sitting for that long is so hard for kids, and adults, with ADHD—and why is hosting so FUN, because you're always translating your restlessness into effective hosting. Most people with ADHD fall into really good host and amazing networker, and we can also know how to help people feel connected and welcome because we know how hard it can be to be isolated. Take breaks with your child. Be honest about how long it's going to be (like 3.5 hours, not "just 15 more minutes"), and be realistic about what battles you're going to pick with your child.  Sometimes when we think about social norms we're trying to show and build the frustration tolerance in our children—we place such a load and raise the stakes so much for the holidays, and we forget that that is a set up with kids. The more you raise the expectations and raise the stakes, the more it's asking for disaster. For the parents who feel that pressure, judgment, and family rules—really hard to have an unreasonable expectations and have them passed on. Can be helped to know that expectations are resentments waiting to happen—and let the table know the expectation we're actually dealing with (eg. We're trying to help kid finish food, as opposed to sit quietly for an hour). Have a wonderful moment with your family, knowing that the most unconventional moments are the memory makers. Also can be really overstimulating, and have a plan for what to do then ahead of time, and how to manage that. How do we recognize we are overstimulated? Isabelle went to Costco and only realized 3 hours later how she was overstimulated. We're all going to feel things differently, but certain things will always be overstimulating: loud noise (increases heart rate) and triggers your fear response. Think about that moment you left a loud concert or house party and that moment when you walk into the cold night air and then you take a breath—knowing that we're overstimulated is really hard to notice (want to work on with a therapist or close friend)—we can tolerate the heat getting turned up really high and we don't notice it until it's at a certain point. David knows he's overstimulated when he's worried about breaking things or bumping into people. When Isabelle starts to feel she's obstacle coursing it, that's when she's overstimulated. Sometimes being overstimulated is really good, or really bad—it's not necessarily one thing or another: it's what's appropriate for the moment. David will sometimes look at his partner where she's like “we don't have time for that.” Getting signs and knowing these things, like with your kid—“I noticed that you were walking around with your hands balled up”—“can I check in on you at Meemaw's house when you're hands are clenched, maybe we can go on a walk with me?” Walks are important intervention: changes environment, smells open up, visual stimulation, movement. Or have a place in Dodge—a weighted blanket in the basement, watch a couple of TikTok's. Isabelle describes the giant mega Christmas party they'd attend that included all these pockets of peace and respite—like smoke breaks (side note: folx with ADHD being drawn to the stimulant with nicotine, but also the habit of taking breaks with a few different people). How valuable it might be not only notice your kid's cues and give them prompting, but also how it might feel for your kid “I'm getting overstimulated, you know I notice my jaw is tight, and I feel like I'm going to bump into things a lot, I need to go for a walk, want to come with me?” We want to make “Calm Down!” not a swear word. It's usually the opposite effect—we're often not saying this to ourselves, we're telling other people to do it. Do it with a partner, the more premeditated it is—you can be predictable and take a break. Boundaries are not personal, even though they almost always feel that way. David uses the example of the briefcase where he keeps his notes—if he saw anyone going near it, he'd freak out, because it has to do with his boundary around client confidentiality, but it's not about who is doing it (whether it's a stranger or a partner). You can set the boundary just by changing the subject. We take boundaries personally, we also think boundaries are about what we're asking the other person to do, when actually—(pause for effect)—the boundary is what you're going to do. For example, Isabelle will find herself being asked for therapeutic advice at family functions, but the boundary when she doesn't want someone to talk about the thing, but it's the moment she changes the subject, walks away, etc. it's the moment where I actually set the boundary for myself. It's not about getting the person to stop talking, it's giving them something to chew on, like a sandwich, so they can't talk about it. And another caveat: as inveterate people pleaser, Isabelle's discomfort shoots up, and it doesn't feel better to her to set a boundary, but it's a short term huge burst of discomfort that she's trading for a long haul sense of self-betrayal, or being worn down, or all the bigger consequences that come from not having a boundary. You tend to have to set boundaries again and again, and it rarely gets easier, you just get more well versed at how you do it. This reminds David of putting on sunscreen—it's so gross, he hates the greasy stuff, but it's better than getting the sunburn. The boundary setting can be announced or not announced. And one of the powers of ADHD: engage ADHD distraction mode when someone starts talking about something you're not about. Like do Delorians need special garages so the doors would still open? Like mo...

What do you do when people are openly judging your food sensitivities (or the food sensitivities of your kid)? What's the difference between a soft and hot response to commentary? Why do we go to town over certain foods we love and then have such particular things we dislike and how much the Thanksgiving feast of it all can be about winning the feeling and vibe, rather than 'winning' at some carbon copy idea or expectation of what the holiday (and meal) should be. Filled chock full of food facts, favorite foods, and alternate ways to celebrate, this episode has David and Isabelle so grateful for you, Team Shiny!----Isabelle wonders if her experience would have been different if her food sensitivities, then cast as being ‘too picky,' ‘too sensitive', had been more the norm in her family friend group growing up. She was the odd one out and that left room for so much judgment and commentary. Meanwhile, she sees her partner Bobby's family and notes that pretty much everyone has food sensitivities, their yucks and yums, so they accept it and roll with it and stock up on what people like and seem to not be phased by it at all. David relates this to his experience being vegetarian for years and how he would feel when people would immediately show him the vegetarian dish on the menu—but he knows now that this was them looking out for him, verifying that this was a place he could eat. He couldn't hear it then, but as he got older, he would just say “thank you.” The difference when you're trying to advocate for your kid as a parent v. Others outside of that. David has his soft response—“if there's ever a night to eat what you like, it's with family” and his hot response is “should I follow you and talk about what you eat?” Isabelle noticed that she could change the texture of vegetables and thus reinvent her ability to eat vegetables, including the bitter ones she couldn't handle for so long. There was so much labor put into the food of her Polish Christmas eve celebrations growing up, like pierogi, and there's this sense of wanting to pass on food pushing and abundance and scarcity. David's mouth is watering about pocket foods—pierogi, samosas, tamales—delicious. Which links up Isabelle's fun fact about fried chicken—that frying preserves the food! And then, isn't it technically a pocket food, too? But, as David points out—the bone! But, Isabelle counters, what about tenders? So is a chicken tender a pocket food with no other filling but chicken? And also foods on sticks. Isabelle likes the risk involved and also chewing on the stick. David doesn't understand how to eat the food off the stick, but there's a big difference between impulsive behavior and well thought out behavior. David and Isabelle are now very hungry. Isabelle asks if traditions really aren't about transmitting memories, and if so, kids won't remember the meal you served, but they will remember the feeling that someone stood up for them and their needs?  David reframes this: are you trying to win an argument (about food) or win a feeling? Are you aiming for togetherness and connection—it's not the day to argue about the food, or the screen, or the phone—give yourself that day. This brings Isabelle to asking David about jello with chunks in it, if he likes that kind of texture, and he doesn't, he likes hard jello. Isabelle is confused by what he means and describes aspic served for Polish Easter, and furthermore, one of the most neurodivergent ways of relating to food, which can include eating copious amounts of the things we love repeatedly. For her, on another holiday with another food profile, she ate 27 eggs. In one day. Gave herself hives from the eggs. And that's not including the mayonnaise. David meant hard jello like jello made with apple juice. Also as a former bartender, David cautions everyone about drinking and driving around Thanksgiving, a holiday notorious for stress and overindulging, and also about the dangers of alcohol soaked foods like jello shots. And he is grateful to Isabelle and to Team Shiny (we love you, Team Shiny!) For all we have made together, for all the people who now know more about ADHD or have new diagnoses: we're sad you had to get a diagnosis and happy you had to get a diagnosis? We're here for all of it. Have a great holiday!The backstory behind Nashville hot chickenFrying as a way to preserve food - "Since fried chicken traveled well in hot weather before refrigeration was commonplace and industry growth reduced its cost, it gained further favor across the South." (Source: Wikipedia)Fascinating rabbithole of a site that makes industrial fryers -- most processed foods are fried!Recipe for ‘hard jello' aka Jell-o jigglers (which sadly does not mention apple juice, but does specify the water to gelatin ratio) And bonus: how to make gelatin out of any fruit juice (like apple juice)-----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

This week we're revisiting what happens when you show up at a holiday meal and immediately realize with a sinking feeling- "Not again…I can't eat anything here…" From honoring the cook's efforts while not betraying your own needs, to recognizing the joys of chewing on pens and ice, join David and Isabelle as we embrace our sensory sensitivities and make our own neurodivergent-friendly and inclusive traditions. Check out our Holiday Survival Guide! Part of a holiday prep series designed to help take some pressure off the holiday season.——David and Isabelle stare down the fast moving train of holidays and expectations that is barreling toward us right now. As we approach Thanksgiving we have a bunch of "shoulds" coming at us--we should be like everyone else and even though we have sensory issues with cars, and sounds, and people, and all that stuff. Everything from sitting still from being held hostage on a plane or in the car, or being stuck in a service or sit at a table, or eating - the sound, the food, the overstimulation, while simultaneously coupled with frustration and your routine being destroyed, and all of this at the same time. This explains why Isabelle has a lurching sense of dread approaching this time of year. The holiday dread is real. David and Isabelle have covered other aspects of holidays, like speaking with family, and the glories and pains of holiday travel, and here they are focusing on food and sensory sensitivities. Isabelle remembers how growing up she was known as a picky eater but actually there were a lot of sensory sensitivities going on. She had memories of celebrating “wigilia” (Polish Christmas Eve celebration) and sitting at a much larger table, with much more eyes on her, and as someone who only ate pretty much chicken and white rice and potatoes, she was facing down a traditional non-meat meal of 12 mostly fish-based dishes (such as pickled herring). You fast before this evening meal, and then you commence the eating. She would be lightheaded and nauseous because she'd be so hungry and would fill up on dinner rolls with butter, everyone is judging and commenting, then she lives on the high of opening presents, and then they'd go to midnight mass at midnight, and then they'd light candles and means the oxygen is rapidly leaving the area in an enclosed place and so she'd either pass out and throw up. Everyone can look back in time and find the holiday memories of “we can't believe we did that on purpose.” We don't make time any other time of year to have these rituals, and see each other, and it's really about connections, yet we get caught up in following these rules that don't always work. Isabelle thinks about how for years she carried the shame around this being her fault, she's the picky eater that would end up passing out or throwing up, but then thinks about how easy it would've been to provide some kind of option for her. That there are traditions and ways of keeping the meaning behind the traditions, but also making even small accommodations that can make all the difference to us. How we can always make new traditions. There's a really hard part with food: there are people that work really hard for hours in the kitchen and they want you to try and see what you like about it and not like about it—how can we try certain things that work for us, and how can we bring our own food—like here's my tub of Mac and cheese, there has to be a middle path. The way to be a gracious guest and host, and how as neurodivergent folks we can prefer to host because it gives us structure, she can stay on her feet, it helps her mask less. What is this about ADHD and food sensitivities? There's a lot around taste aversion, what happens when we associate a food item with a thought in our head—like “eww, this tastes like sand” and we don't eat sand…or boogers. To make the eating experience a lot more about the flavors they're experiencing rather than the thought in the brain. Is it salty? Sweet? Savory? Textures? David is a texture person, there is a fine line between “this is edible” and “this makes me gag”—like bananas, one day to the next changes. Isabelle and David firmly agree on bananas being this type of thing, and Isabelle does not do overripe bananas, you make it a cooking liquid and you put it in banana bread. David also likes drinkable yogurt and he doesn't mind it because he's drinking it. If he's moving his mouth hole up and down there needs to be something there to fight my mouth.” And crunching is stimulating and stress reducing. Whether we're chewing ice or almost-cutting-the-top-of-your-mouth bread crust. Is it the act of chewing that's stress reducing, or something crunchy is stress reducing? Isabelle notices chewy things, like gum, gummy chews, and chip crunch, or a cold crunch, she does not like it—there are special ice cubes that collapse in your mouth that shrink in your mouth. Tiny ball ices at Sonic or certain places have that. David knows chewing gum is a stimulation, and David is hazarding guesses with the crunching thing (like it's objectively dominating something in your mouth, or you're making progress, or it's the sound itself)—there are a lot of parts of that that is soothing. If it's paired with dopamine, your chocolate chip cookie crunch is paired with delight and celery crunch is a HORROR to Isabelle. David's favorite crunch is an apple-pear crunch, or a jicama crunch. What is an apple-pear? What is it exactly? This links us to grapples (apples that taste like grapes), and cotton-candy grapes (it's too much) and champagne grapes and boba. Isabelle loves it, and David describes how he never got boba, he just thought they were fun to launch and make stick to the things, and then years later, it was cold, and he got the boba and then he had a moment when all of a sudden, he chewed it up and was like boba. “Boba, you're delicious!” And now he's a full boba fan. There was a challenge to himself to experience it again. Isabelle wants to go on 800 food related tangents and realizes it might be a food related special interest. The sound of the crunch is a tiny sonic boom in your mouth. And David leans on a couch with his hand on his chin and his finger got in and he accidentally came down on his finger absentmindedly, and you can't even pretend to bite yourself, oh my goodness, it is so painful and powerful. Every time Isabelle bites her tongue or cheek it feels like she severs her tongue. But also, why did David put his finger in his mouth accidentally? And if he put his finger in his mouth and chew it. Isabelle loved chewing pen cap (old school pic pen caps), and she'd chew on everything. She'd also chew on lollipop sticks, she chews on the cupcake wrapper, she doesn't ingest these things and doesn't like chewing, but she loves chewing paper and the pen cap, and it got vertical in her mouth and it sliced a line in the center of the tongue, and she still has a divet. Every single person who is listening has done something like that, or has eaten too many sour patch kids, or has eaten hot pizza too fast and burned their mouth open. This connects to masking and needing stimulation, and a little bit of clumsiness, oral gratification, and it's important. Switching and making new fantasies for the holidays: if you have a picky eater, why don't you make that with them and bring that with them? Don't let the family shame you and make you thing you're doing anything wrong. Take care of your family. Including yourself. So many of us will give kids the room to offer them to...

In this long-awaited Academy of Imperfection, we chat to psychologist Janelle Booker, who specialises in ADHD and Highly Sensitive Person trait. There is SO MUCH to learn (and love) about an ADHD brain. We learn how ADHDers are often extremely creative, innovative, and talented, and in the right conditions, absolutely thrive. However, ADHDers may struggle with executive functions such as time keeping, organisation and emotional regulation, which can make daily life really hard and exhausting. People with ADHD can be more susceptible to mental health issues such as depression and anxiety, as well as dopamine boosting activities such as risk-taking behaviour, addiction and disordered eating. This is why seeking the right diagnosis and treatment plan can be really impactful.  With school as a battleground, and friendships sometimes hard to maintain, Hugh, Ryan and Josh chat through how neurotypical people can be better allies and support systems to ADHDers, as friends, partners, employers, and parents. On a HSP note (not the snack pack, unfortunately), we bet a few of you might resonate with Janelle's explanation, especially since 15-20% of the population have the Highly Sensitive Person trait. Janelle, it was an absolute pleasure, and we can't believe we didn't do this sooner. Janelle is based in Western Australia, and her practice Janelle Booker Psychology, will be accepting new clients in February 2025. Click here to find out more - https://bit.ly/3BZimwO To watch this full episode on YouTube, follow this link: https://bit.ly/3NPDDf7

Is there a way to switch gears even when you're running late, overhwhelmed, and already past crispy? Isabelle and David explore how changing gears, especially during a transition--whether it's starting a conversation, leaving the house, beginning a work task--is up to us and how hard and real the struggle is and how important it can be to get your reps in. From potato sprouts and Carl Rogers, to neurodivergent trauma as culture, to all those half finished water bottles underneath your carseat, this conversation embraces what it means to share collective wounds as well as adaptations to a world not built for neurodivergent folx.----Isabelle (speaking of a hard moment trying to get herself and her kids out the door when they're already running so late and then stopping, covering her eyes and ears, and just sitting on the couch)-- thought this "busy-ness" was a personality trait, moving on to the next, to the next, to the next—to always be busy, harried, running behind. And you can't expect the environment to stop when things feel like too much. Pandemic was not a blessing in disguise (that's BS), and Isabelle's experience was that on top of the systemic and personal trauma and wanting to chew her own arm off, it was the first time the world did stop to a degree—it took a lot of demands and choices off the table for her. How often when she is burned out and crispy does she want the world to stop, for things to slow down, to quiet down on a sensory level.  And when the world stopped, that wasn't the answer either, she actually found herself doing more—it's a lot to realize that the world won't stop for you and even when it does, it doesn't address the overwhelm problem. David names that a lot of social expectations changed—doing laundry, doing hygiene. Finding out which things were effective and which weren't was a lot then. In couples, there's a big difference between a harsh versus a soft startup, taken from the work of the Gottmans (see links below). The harsh versus soft start up through transitions—are you giving yourself a harsh or a soft start up to a task? What do you need to transition to a particular activity—do you want to get there late, stressed, sweaty? Or do you want to get there and be bored for a bit, because you're about to read to kids in a library and need to come in with less energy? When Isabelle sits and asks for help, she interrupts and resets a harsh start up to a soft start up. She is doing for herself what she wishes another person would do. Sits her down, has her take a moment, helps take away the expectations and demands. Bobby can do that sometimes, but also she can't expect someone to do that everyday. And it helps her get reps at switching from a soft to a harsh transition. She didn't think she had a gear shift; she was on and off. It's existential, you have to reset your own expectations and what it means to stop. Isabelle has to unmask, and reveal how vulnerable she is and ask for what she needs, she has to face trauma. A client of hers recently invented (she thinks?) This term “ADHD trauma.” Being neurodivergent in a neurotypical world that's constructed to benefit and aid neurotypical ways of being generates trauma by virtue of the not having the right manual. And David calls this ADHD culture. We have different problems with friend groups or making purchases or being an imposter, the thing that makes this podcast fun to listen to. Culture is defined by how we dance with trauma. Every kind of culture—race, class, etc.—sets the standard of how you interact with the world. The feeling of going into a class and forgetting you had a test; all those empty water bottles under the seats, if you could clap your hands and the pile of laundry, the corner you forgot existed—and suddenly we feel better because you're not the one who is like that. Does having ADHD make me allergic to rigid capitalist systems? There's two people: the ADHD person is going to look down at the cliff and see apples and yells “apples!” And then the other person hears “oh, apples?” and makes an apple farm. We're not all the same but we do have something in common. Anything that overwhelms our capacity to cope or unable to change it—isn't any identity the world wants you to change but you can't going to set you up for overwhelming your capacity to cope (you can't run from it, hide it, fight it, play dead…etc.) David has a thought: when he was getting kicked out of school, his brain coded that as bad. Fast forward, he ended up going to grad school at Northwestern. And not a lot of people at Northwestern got kicked out of high school. It's definitely not something that you talked about. But then, he started working and advocating with Eye to Eye and other groups—suddenly, his story had worth. The amount of relief he started to see on kids faces that “oh, you can recover from every mistake” and he wasn't proud when it happened, but now it's an important part of his origin story. In community and connection, the very thing you're hiding is what I'm hiding--whoa, we don't have to hide, how much energy we get from not hiding this thing? When David first went to Northwestern he would lie and tell people he went to a local “multidirectional school" —those people weren't good people and he didn't want to be branded with those people. Isabelle doesn't want to say where she went to college. Because people from our culture don't go to schools like that (like Harvard?) David had no models, didn't know how to say it. Everyone ‘thinks they're the mistake.” Pause for effect, Isabelle went back and looked through her old medical records and she got her records from counseling while at college. In those clinical notes she received an ADHD diagnosis; multiple sessions where she as a client thought she had ADHD, and as many listeners will remember, she didn't know she had ADHD until 15 years later. Isn't that really interesting—isn't that interesting that she was never told she was diagnosed with ADHD, there was no affirmation or information, and in the notes it indicated even why she was even given the type of antidepressant or weaned off, she walked around telling everyone who knew her "I think I have ADHD because I can't focus anymore.” She wasn't told she had a diagnosis. Even when she asked point blank. The world 25 years ago was really different, how much they maybe saved her from a tougher road. When you're "not supposed to" be there, the messages you get at each of these places, to hide, to shame, to silence, to minimize. "Everyone has some ADHD, right?" The masking component has more consequences to neurospicy culture. We don't have the same the care and feeding instructions as the people around us, we'll still grow but it's not the same. A potato sprout is going to grow and develop no matter what situation you're in, whether the potato is in the root cellar or planted in the earth (as Carl Rogers states, see actual full quote below). Across animal groups, culture is modifying your environment in order to adapt, at least how Isabelle learned what culture was when studying archaeology and social anthropology in college. We started to cook as a form of survival, the culture we form is the things we try to do to survive and adapt. Because we have to survive and shelter in the same places. Isabelle feels way better being a potato in the root cellar around potatoes also in the root cellar. Or at least better than the shriveled magic spell potato you find behind the drawer—forgotten produce! Another feature of neurodivergent culture.DEFINITIONS

Why do we push ourselves so hard, hyperfocus, are ready to do 80 things at once, then crash and run out of steam before we ever move the needle? How much does this boom/bust cycle harm us, our relationships, and our wellbeing? David and Isabelle discuss how, as neurodivergent folx, we can't see our own energy bars and how this gets us into trouble. They also describe a game changing idea, of making their energy bars observable, that has helped them both actually see and attend to their needs well for the first time--and why they were compelled to build this into a Something Shiny toolkit (coming soon!).  ----The things we use to help ourselves and reclaim our time doesn't actually give us more resources, it can take resources away from us. David, for example, feels very successful when he avoids the YouTube video reel hole, scrolling from a sports ball thing to a weird deck someone built…he didn't notice the spoons were going, he took up energy, he sat too long, he didn't get something done. Sometimes the things and cycles we get into what we get into when we're avoiding things, don't help us. This connects to a big course launch coming soon from Something Shiny! A big aha between David and Isabelle has been recognizing that their energy bars are invisible to them, and with their shorter time horizons, Isabelle assumes that the energy she has is forever, and then halfway through taking on so many tasks sucks. She runs out of all her energy and momentum before she knows it, and it's hyperfocus and intensity and crash. It hurts her relationships, her life, her health, so how can we actually see our energy bar? Especially in times like this where demands are many and slots are few. David points out that the way they check on their energy bar is odd; you see that your gas tank is full; “I got gas!” And half full “I got gas!” And quarter full “I got gas!” We ask if there's gas, not if it's enough, or if it matches what we're trying to do. We push past this point without knowing it. David and Isabelle crisped themselves during recording this course without even knowing it. David lost the gas to eat, to observe the world. This is why David and Isabelle took time off this summer: a step by step guide to learn how to read and respond to your energy bar that makes it so your life gets easier. It's fusing together what David and Isabelle know about how neurospicy brains work and then actually building the skills that help. It has deeply altered Isabelle's sense of how she feels about herself on any given day. It's the closest she's coming to what she expects of herself day to day and responds to her needs. Picture the gas tank, but you're in a car with your whole family, and your whole family has to get to the emergency room, she does not have time to get to the gas station and she needs to get the whole family there STAT. Isabelle's self-neglect is real. The term “Burnout” is so interesting, coming from Industrial Revolution terms, that when a machine ran out of resources would run out of fuel, the machine destroys itself because it runs out of fuel. It's not just that we're running on fumes, it's that when we're running on fumes we have destroyed ourselves, our relationships. Isabelle, in her attempt to get to the emergency room, she gets angry, impatient, taking in any request, and then she is engaging in toxic behavior patterns, asking the world to STOP, but she's hurting herself. David names that you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting other people, you're leaking out. When we're done leaking, we don't know what we've done to hurt other people and we're hurting—both things are true. David thinks about his behavioral roots: the first thing you do to make change is you make your behavior observable. It's really hard to actually observe energy, talking about the endings and beginnings we can't see, it makes different parts of back to school or our burnout observable. It's observable so we can change some of these things: did you need a break? Would it have been better to be late to this? Where do we get those messages about what we're supposed to do. Even as the term accountable (like “potential”) can make your spine curl, because it's been leveled at us anticipating mistakes we couldn't, how can we be accountable for our own breaks because no one is going to give them to us. By the time Isabelle is running on fumes, that is not the time she has any bandwidth to think her way out of her feelings, and that's not a strength she has anyway, she can't tell herself it's going to be okay, by nervous system does not work this way, she has to take an action to change her internal state, but she's so crispy to think that she needs a break—the idea of thinking she needs a break and then taking a break is 6 steps too far, and then she gets cranky, she gets grumpy, blaming everything around her, but it's a set up when you expect others to snap you out of it; depending on others to help you just then breeds aggression, and you can't change it, and you can't solve it once you're there. There's got to be another way, or if there isn't another way, how can I make it pass quickly and respond accurately. It's important for us to have people around us to take care of us, and it's important to have skills and resources around us. When David is saying something about taking breaks yourself, that's not ‘put yourself in a room,' it's giving yourself the freedom to go get yourself the things you need. Everyone is going to be aware of what you can't do. What is different right now that you can do right now for yourself. Big way that Isabelle does something differently, like those 2 out of 3 kitchen magnets, sometimes there's a random cough from a kid and she has to decision, she is really reliant on routine to keep things moving, as if every day would be the same. Isabelle likes minty coffee and has a sequence, but then she has a perfectly planned routine, this is how we're going to get out the door in time. The example could really apply to any big transition. But she has to constantly revisit the plan, which is that the environment has altered, the establishing operation has altered—the circumstances around you has been totally altered. But to pivot means disaster, she has no slots left to make new decisions, and so she's crashing and burning every single day. She just decided that when in doubt, she is going to be late, whenever she hits that panic, it's her signal that's something's up—her panicking is her racing around the house with no discernible direction, thinking she's getting it done but she's lost the plot. So when she's in that state, in order to change that state, she has to sit down. She forces herself to sit down. And the second she sits down, “oh, actually, I have to stop and think” and I need to stay in one place, covers her ears, closes her eyes, and asks for help. “I need your help.” And she tries to just think about what she needs help with, “I need help remembering” or “let go of being on time.” And she says it out loud, and she's changing the establishing operation. She changes what the reinforcement looks like, we get there, as long as we survived, it's a win—now, the question is "are you safe? Do you have everything?” David points out that all her decisions are lined up very differently right now. DEFINITIONSEstablishing operation.  The behavioral word for how a little rat, trained to run a maze, is rewarded by a drop of water. The rat loves the water and does lots of work for the water. But rats don't naturally love water this much. So the establishing operation is to withold water from the rat for ...

Ep075: Does back to school season hit you hard, too?Why is it so hard and triggering and exhausting to go back to school (even if you're not a student or have a student in your life right now)? And what is this idea, “pervasive demand avoidance” (or a persistent drive to autonomy) and how can it crop up during massive transition times?  David and Isabelle come back from a summer spent working on exciting new Something Shiny resources and describe some of the demands that may be filling up your slots this time of year. Also included: tangential journeys involving the cinematic classic “Legend,” deep cut Disney songs a la Tim Curry, and Isabelle's allergy medicine hallucination moment.—-David and Isabelle welcome fall and the new school year, complete with the way germs start circulating and sick days shoot up once the school year kicks in, and then histamine levels and allergy medicines. There may be some links between antihistamines and psychiatric symptoms (see link below!). Isabelle describes a hallucination she had when taking a commonly prescribed allergy medicine, referencing the Tom Cruise movie, Legend. This brings up how intense children's movies were back in the day, where kids were in real mortal danger a lot and awful things happened a lot. David recalls how intense Willy Wonka was, with the kids getting killed and then the tunnel sequence, which leads to Isabelle remembering how she shopped a class in college about children's literature and it was all about Roald Dahl and how he hated childhood and was bullied and just dealt with a lot of things that made him hate kids. So, returning to Isabelle's hallucination, she wakes up from a sleep, she sees Tim Curry in Legend demon costume asking if she has anything to eat, and she knows she's hallucinating, but it was in the room. She hears him working in the kitchen. She then sees a pig walk in with human hands for feet, she wakes up, she is fully awake, the pig fades away, and she walks into the kitchen, and I say “You're not real, I'm hallucinating” and he says “of course.” Also, it was almost morning, light was in the space, this wasn't sleep paralysis or lucid dream, she fixed breakfast, called the doctor, and stopped taking this medicine immediately. Of course she told the whole story to the doctor because of course these details would be important. David names how strange the brain is and all the connections are. And this links up to an amazing CD put out by Disney where Tim Curry sings a Davy Crockett song. David was tormented by this song in elementary school, and they would make fun of him by singing this song at him, but why did this bother him actually? Isabelle recalls that back to school season as more triggering than she realized, she would use the relationship with her teacher to accommodate her, to do the hard things and ask for extensions and try and be. The teacher at her kids' school was not picking up on her big hand gestures and quirk and charm, so two questions: 1) back to school season being triggering? And 2) when there is a vacuum, she becomes a cartoon character, as their previous guest Ren, brought up. Going back to school is so complicated; David notices that when he sees the back to school supplies on sale, it was a “gulp,” it always meant more work for him, the break being over. Now that he is not in school anymore, it has become a bit more of a “haha, I don't have to do that anymore.” But regardless he wants to point out that neurotypical or neurodivergent alike, this is a time of intense transitions, beginnings and endings, and routine changes, and waking up earlier (for parents and kids and even fellow commuters who suddenly have to notice when school is in session on their traffic routes), it is a hard, hard time. It's highly activating on a nervous system level, and germ load aside, kids will need down time and fatiguing and the adjustment period. This brings up the idea of cognitive demands on us—hold up ten fingers, and each slot is taken up with a task or a load: “buying school supplies,” “I'm sad my kid and I won't have the same together,” and “I gotta change my morning routine” — in the face of so many demands, things become a can't, not a won't. In the face of so many demands, I actually can't do any more, even a pleasant thing, everything is one ask too many or one step too much. And some people don't have ten slots, they have two—for example, a kid being ushered into a transition, even like three requests of a parent is actually too many demands, and they respond with “I don't wanna” but also what's in there is they cannot. They can do more, but with help. They're going to get crispy and ragey, you become oppositional, pick fights, it looks like a sensory overload, or a shutdown, I am going to avoid anything that I perceive as a demand. David not sure how he feels about this diagnostic label because when we're overwhelmed, we SHOULD react this way. Video of how it felt for a person who is autistic went into a grocery store, the screen started to pixelate the farther into the store they got, it was like a satellite's images during a storm. David gets into a place where he goes “NOPE” and it comes from a place where he has nothing left. Is he pathologically demand avoidant, but aren't we all? Actually isn't this a common thing we share across. Isabelle is going into neuropsychological testing with her family to update things, and carries a lot of curiosity going into it about sensory stuff, and wants to welcome it. You see it reflected in people around you, and ton of people around her identify as being on the autism spectrum and oh, that is where she finds her tribe. For her learning about PDA is the closest she's come to for resetting her expectations for herself, and “oh, I'm not just trying to avoid hard work,” it's “oh, I ran out of spoons and slots, I had no bandwidth.” David names that this is a thing that connects with neurodiversity and not being resourced. Power struggles are going to be activating all the time, and just because a power struggle is happening is not PDA—but on the autism spectrum, sound, texture, movement is filling the slots, too. It can help illustrate that it's important to lower the demands and help your kid (or yourself) by meeting yourself with compassion. David and Isabelle also mention that they are working on a energy bar idea…more to come!Antihistamines connecting to psychiatric side effects, like hallucinationsLegend (1985, starring Tom Cruise) trailer- Tim Curry is the voice...and shows up around 0:48. YES THIS IS A KID'S MOVIE.  Intense kids moviesStand by Me (1986) trailer (PS. this is based on a Stephen King short story, "The Body") YES THIS IS A KID'S COMING OF AGE MOVIE.Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory Tunnel Scene Clip— Again, kid's movie. Roald Dahl book: Boy Disney Parks CD track list Tim Curry sings the Davy Crockett song  (side note, Isabelle really did a great impression of this) 

What happens when the rewards for doing something don't show up until way later? Or if it's harder to tell you're making progress on something, like saving money, applying for jobs, buying a house? David and Isabelle are joined by Isabelle's husband, Bobby, who also has ADHD, swapping stories about delaying gratification, shame spirals, and how we ruminate and distract AND hyperfocus for the win.----  The only thing that's reinforced are tasks toward goal completion. What could I do today that would move me toward that goal? The  only question: is it moving toward my goal? If so, it's effective (or if not, not effective), rather than good or bad. For example, David venting about his paper to his friend helped him be on task, rather than not being on task and going out to eat at Burger King—it's still about the paper (it's still on task). How effective is it toward the task? More effective than going to Burger King and not talking or thinking about the paper at all. Long term goals are specifically hard for folx with ADHD because of the delay of gratification. The more you wait, the more you feel like you're failing. Neurotypical folx will read that waiting as normal or to be expected. Bobby names things like saving for retirement, saving for a house, paying off debt—the progress is so slow it feels so boring. David relies on his awesome neurotypical partner to save for a house by taking what they would pay for a mortgage every month and saving whatever that was on top of their rent (so if their Lego House rent was $10, and they wanted a $30 mortgage, they saved the extra $20 every month). Isabelle wonders if neurotypical shame spirals go as deep as neurodivergent ones—for example, David's goes to homelessness, and she notices that neurotypical folx notice how close they got the finish (like getting the brick at the bottom of the pool during swimming lessons), and factor that in, whereas for her it's the outcome that matters and she goes straight to everyone she loves is going to abandon her and ditch her. David names that he has a few shame spirals—for work, it's homelessness, for relationships—it's abandonment. This leads to black and white thinking, which is more than just worth mentioning, it's the difference between “not getting a snack” to “failure begets failure begets FAILURE…” And this extreme is dismissed so often, people don't get it. As a therapist you'd never say “it's not a big deal,” you're invalidating those feelings. What we ADHD folx feel, our level of intensity, is REAL—instead of “it shouldn't hurt that much,” it's “that's extremely frustrating.” Bobby is slurping all this data up, and taking the feels, and feeling them…and that's what you do. You acknowledge how intensely you're feeling them. Bobby sits in the role of “Novice EveryDay-er…Every Day Dude” (which is what it says on his nameplate). And not just acknowledging your feels, but acknowledging the intensity of how strongly you feel them. Feel the feeling, know it's more intense, or it might not be felt by other people. And do what you need to do to regulate—-as opposed to let it go. It's like telling someone with ADHD not to look at the ceiling (we all looked at the ceiling). Telling someone to fight something is not effective, it can go on forever in a power struggle. Isabelle describes that she prefers the phrase self-soothe to self-regulate, because it can be a pressure to return to masking and appearing as though you are neurotypical or ‘regular.' David is wondering if self-soothing is the task, actually—you might not be able to soothe or make the injury out of the way, and instead get grounded again. It's not about getting out of your ADHD mindstate, it's about lowering your hyper focus and lowering the pressure to act. David does this intermittent fast now and just got distracted about the food he wants to eat (schwarma)—he's not pretending he's going back to the point and instead is focusing on food and saying “Schwarma.” The group decides they will say “Schwarma” any time this happens, if they can remember, which Bobby reassures them he will. Isabelle then describes that she thinks Bobby circumvents working memory problems by using some of the rules of comedy, like callbacks, and then…she also loses the plot and goes back to telling her story. Isabelle describes fixations on movies or things across many genres and seems to do with what the movie makes her feel. She is reminded of one of her roommates in college who was a lovely person, but would fixate on one or two somewhat depressing emo songs and for Isabelle, she didn't like the emotional state it would generate. So she recognizes that she goes through fasts almost, of media that stirs up feelings because she gets so sucked in, so she avoids fiction and movies and music for a while. Then, it's like a switch flips, and she gets sucked in and rewatches things over and over again. Like the Netflix film “Tall Girl.” Because she is tall. And it hooked her (despite not being the best movie maybe, but she liked it). And she found time, when she has no time, to watch it four times in the span of a week. What is this? David's like: it's the definition of hyperfocus. It's that you fall into it intensely. It's that you do the same thing over and over again, or a genre—like David only watched shows that only made it one season. Isabelle can daydream for five hours straight while driving, she can rewatch things in her head. David is naming that this is not the safest driving technique, but David is wondering if there were any changes in this span that changes your capacity to move around? Were there things that gave you more unstructured time? Were there things you were avoiding or wanting distraction from on an emotional level? When all of those things happen, hyperfocus can kick in for preservation, like you're going to get sucked into the Full Metal Alchemist because you don't want to think about life after graduation. And in another way, rumination can kick in when you don't move around during the day, which turns into a type of thinking at the end of the day, those thoughts can be a way to get out that energy. Everyone is going to kick into hyperfocus for different reasons and it will vary based on types and on the environment that they're in. Isabelle connects very much to preservation idea of hyperfocus, how survival-related it feels and  the times she was in a fandom over a particular show or movie that relate to major life transitions, like graduation, or career changes, or life changes. David names that it's probably much easier to remember the relationship she had with those things than the transitions themselves. David names that this is a superpower. It usually happens when you're sitting in helplessness. Are you sitting in your helplessness, or are you sitting in “these amazing actors and actresses are nailing it?” Isabelle insists Bobby will watch it and grow to love it. It can happen when you don't have structure or your routine changes, and it provides structure—the reality is, for David, it's important to go wild if you really are in a state of helplessness—then go to town watching all the shows. But if you're using it to avoid a task, that's a whole other story. Things Isabelle, David, and Bobby have hyper focused on (that are mentioned in the episode):The MatrixNew GirlTall GirlIt's Always Sunny in PhiladelphiaFull Metal AlchemistSchwarmaDAVID'S DEFINITIONS:Black and White Thinking: Believing or acting as if there are only two ways of thinking right or wrong. This includ...

Why are some of us anxious and some of us excited (or a combo platter of both)? And is it possible to turn anxiety, or anger, or shame spirals, into something else?  David and Isabelle swap stories, talk transgenerational trauma, and get curious about how we are socialized to mask and behave...and that perhaps the solution for being overly apologetic lies in the midwestern gem: "ope.”-----Isabelle starts by expanding on the idea of how you think about things, how that inner landscape can connect into tapping into norepinephrine—if you're practicing going “I see you anxiety, I see what you're trying to do, and I'm so grateful I have you because it helps me…” what it means to not shame or blame yourself for having an instinct to worry versus what you do know to be true. Short of someone giving you direct feedback, you don't have data either way, so saying hi to your anxiety or feeling, and taking a few breaths to be grateful. Then when you do have a tough moment, like a hard meeting at work, you won't beat yourself up about it as much. David even says: you can skip the shame spiral. Norepinephrine is so much about the inertia and movement of something. People with kids who have ADHD either have a very very clean room, or very very messy room. For those with a messy room, they're like “where to start? Do I burn it and start over again?” Then you give them one specific thing to do, they earn dopamine from that one thing. So you build momentum by building a feedback loop between dopamine and norepinephrine, because you judge yourself on a very reasonable scale. If you make a broad request, it's like “whaaa?” If you say “pick up your legos” or “Hunt for all the legos you can, you have 7 minutes, you earn 3 snarf points? What's a snarf point? I'll tell you in 7 minutes”—you now have specificity, and time pressure, and reward. Isabelle describes that she lives in the anxious side of the spectrum, and David lives in the excitement of it. If anxiety and excitement are the same physiological symptoms, how can you replace the two things? Isabelle wonders at her anxiety, which she is not bummed about, but knows that it's a part of her, and also knows that it has served her and her people across the generations—like she feels less anxious when she has a very stocked pantry or fridge. How can that be turned into excitement? We're talking about the interplay of epigenetics, and the interplay of how you lean into the anxiety. If you're in the United States, you'd be hard pressed to not have a transgenerational history of trauma, and as men and women (and non-binary folx), we are treated differently and are rewarded for going to anger or anxiety.  Men are traditionally reinforced for getting angry in the U.S.—it's reinforcing for them, and it's not great, and in the same way anxiety may be reinforced for women. Not that it's so cut and dry and binary-based. David elaborates that his impulsivity has been viewed as confidence, whereas for women, it can be viewed as overemotionality, and can be shamed, or put in corners. David had to work really hard to find excitement, he was way more in that angry place, fighting any system, any person he could. When you get angry, you feel yucky afterwards for like two hours, and he met really good friends, had an amazing brother, and had good supports, and a lot of people don't have that. And he had a choice in that moment whether to get anxious or excited. Isabelle is so grateful David shared that about himself and felt so seen, really resonating with the idea that whereas David's impulsivity was viewed as confidence, hers was read as overreacting, or overdramatic. She describes how she makes big gestures and shrieks and has big reactions to things and how often she has to blunt them or try to mask them in her daily life. She also recognizes the layers of privilege she carries as a white, cisgendered woman, that she has gotten a lot of reinforcement for her anxiety. Her asking, let's say, her kid's teacher a detail-oriented question seems almost assumed, that she would be the one who needs to be vigilant about the details of things, whereas her husband, Bobby, is seen as winning the day if he gets the kids to school, even though he is more effective at this. How we're socially viewed impacts how we think about it—perhaps Bobby running late is viewed as he was busy doing important things, whereas Isabelle names she has been conditioned to be extra apologetic and nervous and take it on as some awful thing that she's running late. David goes into Tavistock group dynamics stuff (see show notes below)—based around the work of Wilfred Bion—where people learn how they are in a group. David was in a group and someone came in late and were overly explaining it, the group ended up attacking her about all her apologies—David named there is an art to being late, and it is this: acknowledging the inconvenience, being very small, and apologizing at the end. Don't talk too much or give too many specifics, just say “my bad” and be quiet and wait to figure out what's happening. David and Isabelle both agree that they are habitually late, and hate being late, but will be late because of who they are. They just will be. Isabelle names an old meme: “Sorry I was late, it's because of who I am as a person.” She mentions connecting with her friends, one of whom says instead of saying “I'm so sorry” for being late, reserve sorries for deep relational healing moments where you feel harm was caused, intentionally or not. For example, being late, or accidentally bumping into someone, or dropping something off late—is not always the context for an “I'm sorry,” but instead, you could use the phrase “thank you for your patience.” David agrees, except for the bumping into someone else part—he has to say he's sorry. Isabelle thinks a simple midwestern “ope!” Will suffice, which David recently witnessed himself doing in the wild. Ope: (according to Urban Dictionary) - a midwestern U.S. way of acknowledging another person or thing they have encountered. Ope! Sorry I bumped into you, Jim. Ope, there's my wallet. Ope! I missed my bus! (added by us): Also known as an interjection of surprise and implied apology.DAVID'S DEFINITIONS Epigenetics - from CDC “Epigenetics is the study of how your behaviors and environment can cause changes that affect the way your genes work. Unlike genetic changes, epigenetic changes are reversible and do not change your DNA sequence, but they can change how your body reads a DNA sequence.” (source: CDC)Transgenerational trauma: from wikipedia“is the psychological and physiological effects that the trauma experienced by people has on subsequent generations in that group.” (source: Wikipedia) Imagine the collective trauma experienced by groups of people surviving slavery, wars, famine, natural disasters, etc. and the ways in which epigenetic (see definition above) may alter the way even our genes can express themselves and how we adapt and respond to stressors. For more on this, check out the pioneering work of Yehuda and Lehrner (Article on intergenerational transmission of trauma)Dopamine deficiency? ADHD is often understood as neurobiological (brain) difference, that includes lower levels of dopamine, the neurotransmitter (messenger chemical) in our br...

Why do some of us minimize and reduce the number of choices while others seek excitement and novelty? Why do some of us need everything listed out while others need to just try something blindly? The secret? Different types of ADHD and different ways our ADHD shows up in different environments! David and Isabelle are joined by Bobby and Noah, who also have ADHD, and talk about things like trying to leave the house, deciding what to eat, and why their accommodations all look so different.-----Transitions and choices are hard. Isabelle and David are joined by Isabelle's husband, Bobby, and David's friend and fellow clinician, Noah, both of whom also have ADHD to talk about different types of ADHD. We don't remember all the stuff we have to do to leave the house. Isabelle describes a detailed whiteboard and just how long it took to get into the habit of not forgetting things like lip balm. David puts everything into his bag at night. Isabelle has to do a one-touch rule. Noah's and Bobby's work bag are empty. Bobby's really into minimizing things, which David points out is a wonderful intervention, especially for inattentive type— decision fatigue. Noah does this for going out, always ordering a blackened chicken sandwich. How exhausting it is to make decisions all the time. Noah's experience in a blind restaurant. Bobby's picky eating is connected to something ADHD-related—hypersensitivity around texture. David's experience of this is big after decades of vegetarianism, experiencing the texture of meat for the first time (bacon and hot dogs are great. Other meat for him? Not so much). Isabelle references the Paradox of Choice book (TLDR) and describes the phenomena of randomly remembering facts she's read, but struggling to remember what she read on command. Recognizing that when there is an overabundance of choice, we think we made the wrong one (or are left more disatisfied) because we always think we could've picked better. This relates to Isabelle's reaction to Tinder as something that makes her nauseous thinking about it: too many choices. Same with old school diner menus. Or Cheesecake Factory menus. David agrees. Isabelle describes novelty seeking with food, whereas Bobby wants the same thing. David went to Superdawg and got everything on the menu he wanted because he couldn't make a decision. Noah would go there, deliberate what to get for 20 minutes, and leave with nothing. Why do we all sound so different and yet similar? We're talking about the distinctions between inattentive and impulsive ADHD types. What about combined type? Depends on the mastery of the environment: the more mastery, the more impulsive we can be, the less mastery, the more inattentive.What is Superdawg? If you're in and around Chicago, you're welcome to check it out. If you're not, it's still a fun place to look into.  From the bottom of our pure beefy hearts. Paradox of Choice - book by Barry Schwartz (TLDR for Isabelle but an interesting summary appears on wikipedia). DEFINITIONSADHD types explained through how we order at a restaurant:inattentive type: struggles to figure out what to order, stares at menu (accommodations: always orders the same thing or same type of thing, asking the server for their choice/having the chef or someone else choose for you)impulsive type: orders three different entrees (to try them all), or the novel/strange seeming thing on the menu (accommodations: finding new places to eat or food bars where you can throw on whatever you want in that moment)combination type: see above and experience BOTH, often depending on your level of mastery/comfort (more mastery in the environment, the more your impulsivity shows up). Decision fatigue: the more decisions we make, the more our quality of decisions (or ability to do so well) deteriorates. Too many decisions can lead to an overwhelming feeling, burnout and poor decisions. Avoiding the complexity of decisions, can be an adaptive tool for individuals to preserve brain power for more important decisions, especially when the inattentive-type ADHD experience is loud. Here's an article on how to notice when it's happening to you.Hypersensitivity around texture: some textures are going to make people feel more yucky inside than you would think they could. Often times it can be really helpful to honor these sensitivities, and not try to push through them unless there's serious impact on food and nutrition.Here's a quick article on how to cope with hypersensitivities to sound, texture, taste, smell, etc. -----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby Richards

Jackson Tozer embodies the essence of The Imperfects podcast. Well, that's what Ryan thinks, and we're pretty keen to agree. Hugely successful and outrageously talented, Jackson, from the outside, is living the dream. Behind the professional success of acting alongside Shaun Micallef, John Cena and Zac Efron (and Ryan, can't forget Ryan), Jackson found himself learning how to be a high-functioning addict (literally high) at rock bottom. Sharing his experience with grief, the loss of his best friend and marijuana addiction, which contributed to his battle with bulimia, anxiety and depression, we thank Jackson for being so bloody generous with his vulnerability.This episode with Jackson Tozer includes a discussion about eating disorders, marijuana addiction and suicide . If this feels like too much for you right now, please come back to this episode when you're ready. To watch this full episode on YouTube, follow this link - https://bit.ly/3YrXrf9 Join Movember and be part of the solution. To advocate for more action around men's health, head to https://bit.ly/3yv9BZX 

David and Isabelle navigated the treacherous landscape of surviving and being the lucky ones; are we trash? Are we seahorses? From defeating the enemy that is loose glitter, to brain regions resembling animals, to why it hurts when we beat up on ourselves, tackling the pain and looking at ourselves with intention. ——Isabelle was told she's a talker, but she's also a listener. There's this thing Isabelle borrows from mindfulness practices and therapy ideas: what you resist persists, what you go with flows, go for the ride. She had this moment the other day, at what point is it going to be bore her? She is easily bored, she is initially excited about and then she loses interest in it, she can be hyper fixated on the thing and then it passes, and then why is it that she's never been bored in a session—it's never happened: when will it not be exciting or curious? It's not the same thing as it being easy or effortless, challenge does not mean something isn't fun, and maybe it's one of her favorite things to do. David names: it's amazing to be put into an environment where it's dangerous if you don't pay attention to listening, attending to the patterns and themes in the group—it's almost what I've done in my entire life. Find ways to honor ourselves. I want someone to be able to look at me and respectfully out himself more often, and we don't see the models are dysfunction. “This kid having ADHD and being in jail” is part of the story. Until everything is shiny! Glitter! Except loose glitter which is Isabelle's worst nightmare. She learned, the hard way, that loose glitter found it's way into her world, the moment you try to clean it up, it's “this glitter will be here always.” The glitter's arch nemesis is tape—you're welcome everybody. You still have to sit there for hours, but it makes the cleanup satisfying. David has had the thought of rooms with too much glitter and thought: burn this room. Isabelle names that this is different when there is epoxy style glitter in a floor or a tile, or in a shoe—she loves how there's a lot of glittery shoes, but the glitter is contained in a plastic shell. And there's something amazing about the shiny but it needs to stay shiny and not be embedded in anyone's skin. Isabelle's friend pointed this out: David has a pleasant voice, and Isabelle, back in high school, was on speech team, and she competed in radio speaking, where you essentially you get to be in a room separate from everybody and record into a microphone. That got her over her fear of public speaking, only they used tapes and tape recorders. Who knew? These little things, not exactly fate v. Free will—isn't it interesting the things that had to come into play were miraculous or exponentially improbable. David thinks his survival in life is pretty lucky. Like LeDerick said, we're statistically survivors, how did we get there? David is sometimes looking at a river and it's all pristine and there's this piece of trash attached to a log not getting sucked down the river, and that's him, he's a piece of trash, and he got saved. He was powerless being swept by the current—a lot of us were—whether we found partners, or friends, or jobs or something. The odds of David getting an advanced degree, being in a counseling practice, and having the same diagnosis. There was a moment in their office, it was Isabelle's first or second month, and we were talking about structure and stuff, and it went brain-seahorse. And David went “maybe…maybe…” and everyone else just saw, it's going to go somewhere else. To finish the thought: once seahorses have partnered, upon the first rays of sunlight entering the ocean, they will do a synchronized dance to each other. Speaking of seahorses: the hippocampus is the part of the brain is responsible for episodic memory, ability to time stamp when something has happened in our life, seal it with a declarative context—and to connect it to David's trash metaphor, how a seahorse gets around: it attaches to kelp or seaweed and it floats on the currents, and it mates for life, and takes care of it's babies, and it does not make sense, and it exists nonetheless. Isabelle doesn't think we're trash on a river, we're the seahorses. David names that 50% of people with ADHD don't graduate on time. Isabelle names: a lot seahorses don't survive, statistically there's so many don't make it. David names there's a lot of compassion and meaning to what we see—Isabelle is doing a lot of shaming to the trash. David is not trying to say we're mistakes, but he doesn't think the system sees value in us, but we have to see value in ourselves. You see me, I see you, grab my hand, we'll do things together, we are trying to survive. David is never going to judge survival. Isabelle quotes Carl Rogers, when the potato sprouts, it's doesn't matter if it's in the earth or in the root cellar, it will reach out toward the little shaft of light, and he talks about it as an actualizing tendency, we're always going toward the sunlight, and everyone else is casting shame “silly potato” but it's doing what it does. The labels that we put on things can be really distracting, and there's a big debate about diagnosing, and David names that labels can be minimizing and restrictive, but with ADHD, there's some power in that label, in knowing you're not alone, that it's really hard when you're dealing with internal invisible motivational things, it's easy to think there's something wrong with you, and you need to spend time with people that don't make you feel like trash, and you spend time doing things, and you don't trash yourself. But also, David identifies with the trash in the river. ANd things changed when he didn't need the system to find value. How do you relate to yourself in seeing the value you hold and knowing that. It connects to internal family systems, there's this interesting idea that the reason why when you're beating yourself up, it causes actual pain—there's another part, however small or exiled, there is another part that is taking that hit. When we're beating ourselves up, a part of us is trying to convince the part that desperately doesn't want it to be true. It's like trying to beat down a part that inherently knows it has value. It's not just practicing and noticing the strengths and the peaks, but also having the space and safety to grieve, that you had a lot more peaks, and lot of people missed it, and you were wrong about you, too—there's a whole reckoning. David would use this question to ground himself: “when did that not happen?” Oh, with these people, in that place, when I'm doing x—“where does it not happen?” Even looking at childhood, “my parents were always angry”—when were they not? This makes Isabelle think of your default neural network—you're brain is going to always do the thing that it's most used to, because it's more efficient to do the thing you do every day—if you're not actively or intentionally trying to counter that, you're going to coast—and if you've been knocked down, and you've been hit harder and felt it more acutely than most, and you're default mode is going to be rough, and it does take concentrated effort to work with this, and that's where environments and community comes in. Dr. Daniel Siegel - the neurons that fire together, wire togetherCoolest books about seahorses - Poseidon's Steed: The Story of Seahorses, from Myth to Reality by Dr. Helen Scales, Ph.D.Carl Rogers quote “potato sprout”...

Does feedback sting extra hard? David introduces the concept of rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD), where you interpret feedback or questions or redirections as being very harsh and personal, and then really take it to heart—even if that's not really what is being communicated to you--and how this plays into relationships. This episode, David and Isabelle are joined by fellow ADHD clinician, Noah, and Isabelle's husband, Bobby, who both also have ADHD.-----Isabelle & David welcome Isabelle's husband, Bobby, and David's friend and fellow clinician, Noah, who both also have ADHD. David introduces the concept of rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD), where you interpret feedback or questions or redirections as being very harsh and personal, and then really take it to heart—even if that's not really what is being communicated to you (example: Did you empty the dishwasher? Someone with RSD: WHY DO YOU THINK I'M LAZY?!) What do you do if you and your partner BOTH have RSD and ADHD? Awareness is gamechanging. How you give people the feedback that maybe they're taking your feedback too personally/harshly? There is a comedic setup in giving people the feedback that they may not take feedback well. What if your partner is neurotypical and feels like your ADHD hyper focus forgetfulness feels like you're doing things on purpose, then you go down a shame spiral of forgetting (for example)? The neurotypical partner may have resentment towards the behaviors and also, how can it get better? It will happen again, we will fail. Not trying to be something you're not, but also always working to improve and putting in effort, as well as paying attention to repairs and actually doing the work to prioritize what your partner's needs are-speaking their love language (see Gary Chapman's Love Languages below). How RSD connects to years of feeling like you're failing and getting social feedback there's something wrong with you. The importance of finding a partner who accepts you and gets that ADHD is not going away.WHO IS GOTTMAN? Basically John & Julie Gottman are relationship gurus who found an institute years ago where they research how people in relationships interact scientifically. With their experience they define the individual ways we crave, express and accept love from others. For more information, check out: https://www.gottman.com/DAVID'S DEFINITIONS of Gary Chapman's Love Languages (https://www.5lovelanguages.com):1. words of affirmation - talking about your feelings of intimacy, appreciation or praise to another person 2. quality time - making time to be in close proximity with another person doing a preferable task3. physical touch - acts of touching, kissing, hugging, physical acts of closeness4. acts of service - being able to take care of things or fix problems for other people5. receiving gifts - feeling appreciation from the things that are given to you by another person-------cover art by: Sol Vázqueztechnical support by: Bobby Richards

In this episode of a series I am doing on ADD & ADHD, I explore the seven different types of ADHD, based on information from the Amen Clinic, where I received my brain scan. I discuss my personal experiences and the comprehensive approach used by the Amen Clinic, which includes a SPEC scan to look directly at the brain.    I detail the symptoms and treatment protocols for each type of ADD: Classic, Inattentive, Over-focused, Temporal Lobe, Limbic, Ring of Fire, and Anxious ADD. Treatments range from medications like Ritalin and Adderall for some types to dietary supplements, exercise, and lifestyle changes for others. I also share audio from my diagnostic appointment, emphasizing the importance of identifying the correct type of ADD for effective treatment.   Ways to Work with Me:  www.mindywender.com www.hyperfocusmentor.com  Hyper Focus Journal    Follow on Instagram @mindywender | @obsessedornotinterested Referenced Resources: 53. Hyper Focused on ADD & ADHD (part 1)  Dr. Amen's Clinics Website  Healing ADD by Dr. Daniel Amen   If you enjoyed this episode please share with a friend and leave a rating & review. I love reading them to know what episodes are your favorite and it helps get the podcast so much!

Ever wonder if it'd be easier to be partnered with someone who also has ADHD (or, someone who is neurotypical)? How can you coexist no matter what the combo platter of neurodivergence? Robin, David's neurotypical partner, and Bobby, Isabelle's neurodivergent partner, join a relationship round table filled with practical tips on how neurotypical and neurodivergent partners can better support, communicate, and respond in key moments with one another. ---ADHD is often scapegoated within relationships. David & Isabelle are joined by David's partner, Robin, who is neurotypical, and Isabelle's husband, Bobby, who also has ADHD. David describes his friendship with Noah, who also has ADHD, and how the two of them have different and complementary needs and accommodation styles (for example, Noah likes structure and being on time, David is more accommodated by not wanting to let Noah down). How relationships could look when people are aware of what they are good at, not so good at, and that they need to work differently. This is similar to how when Bobby and Isabelle were first diagnosed, they had very different ways of experiencing ADHD and their sample size (“but wait, Isabelle's more organized, she can't have ADHD!”) impacted their understanding of it. David and Robin describe how Robin gives David a part of a shelf—a place where he could freely be messy and do his thing. Like spots that she, as his neurotypical partner, does not try to manage. The group goes on a tangent about cockroaches running up legs and spiders in your mouth while you sleep (see below). David also observes that Robin does not ask him to do a lot of things so when she does ask him, it feels novel and he received instant gratification for doing the task, so he's more likely to do it (and eager to please the person he loves). This also connects to how Robin asks him to sweep or clean up crumbs (more thoroughly). Isabelle notes Robin's warmth—and recognizes that Isabelle and Bobby both aren't as warm to each other around this feedback. Robin points out that Isabelle (having ADHD) may not see the feedback as it goes, and instead notices the feedback when she's already overwhelmed. Isabelle and Bobby note what they call a Great America moment (see below) and notes how she was able to observe Bobby circling around distracted, like a shark, and that she was able to see he needed a different environment to complete his tasks and was able to choose to go to Great America anyway (for herself): in short, she didn't have to jump into the shark circling herself. David points out that children (which he does not have) are like the loveliest hedonist parrots (which Isabelle and Bobby add: are also the best thing ever). David also talks about mirror neurons and how people with ADHD can have much more active empathic responses, where they can really sync up to the moods/emotions of the people around them. As Bobby is circling like a shark, Isabelle's mirror neurons are activated and she is syncing up, but Isabelle does not need the same level of intensity. How to know when you don't need that level of intensity, knowing when you can't think your way out of that circle (AKA Great American moment). Also important and hard to notice when you've self-stimulated yourself into some intense emotion but then your next task doesn't need it. Hard to see yourself clearly in these escalated moments and how a partner can see you more clearly sometimes and help reflect back boundaries or what you need. And so when Isabelle syncs up to Bobby, she's trying to soothe them both, instead of paying attention to taking a break and NOT syncing up, which will help them both. Bobby notes that podcast recording sessions helps everyone. Robin also names times when she and David need to ask for what they need to sync up (or not sync up). David will call and give her a heads up telling her he's ‘coming in hot' from his commute/work time, when she's on the couch horizontal watching the Office or Park and Rec—how they try to meet them halfway. How both David and Isabelle forget their age all the time. For more show notes, go to somethingshinypodcast.comWhy is the cockroach named Rick? For no reason, except David and Robin like alliteration. Isabelle mentions a sacred pact between humans and bugs? Well, it's an ancient truce predicated on the idea that if a bug is around, that's fine, we're on their turf, really, but if a bug is on your body without you electing to have said bug on your body, or the bug is on your bed or perhaps in the bath/shower with you, you will use whatever means necessary to remove said bug from said body/bath/shower/bed. What is the Great America moment? Let's say a group of people all want to go to an amazing thrill-ride packed amusement park (like Great America, a Six Flags park in scenic Gurnee, IL), but they're waiting on one person to finish their work before they go. Instead of making the whole group miss out if that person doesn't get their work done, you can honor both sets of needs: let the person finish their work and then also let the rest of the group go to Great America. Then circle back and plan another time to go together. The idea is that the person struggling shouldn't feel the pressure/responsibility of everyone else's ‘good time' and that everyone can hold boundaries make autonomous choices that are also understanding and inclusive. DEFINITIONSSelf esteem:  is a global term that has to do with how you feel about yourself, your own sense of self-worth. One thing to consider is that with ADHD, self-esteem can be believing you're going to survive an experience: that the moment of discomfort you're experiencing will be worth it it in the future. This is hard to do when your sense of time can be two modes (now or not now). When everything feels like NOW, it's hard to believe in a later or a change or in growth. And when you believe you can do something, it dramatically increases the odds that you will actually do that thing. Self-esteem is believing that you can survive, you can do the thing, and you don't have to convince yourself of that all over again every time.Mirror neurons: this is a very complex neurological phenomenon, that is a particular favorite of ours. When you are doing a thing, your brain fires motor neurons (eg. if you know how to ski, your brain will fire the motor fires that help you move on your skis). Mirror neurons fire when you are witnessing (or anticipating) someone else do a thing that your motor neurons do (eg. your mirror neurons fire AS IF YOU ARE SKIING, when you are watching skiing on tv). Put another way, your brain is inhibiting you from acting out what you're witnessing/anticipating, but other than that, you're copying the things you see/anticipate seeing. Think about how much we learn vicariously, through observation and then trying something you've only seen before (like a baby learning how to walk! or draw! or pretty much anything!) The more they're understood, the more we recognize that mirror neurons are also involved in recognizing emotional states and sharing your emotions with others (firing the pathways of movements we do when sad/happy/angry, etc.).  Welcome to the rabbit hole, in some assorted articles below: What we currentl...

We are once again joined by our good friend Dr. Molly McVoy, M.D.. She is a Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist, as well as Training Director for the Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship at University Hospitals of Cleveland/Case Western Reserve in our home state ... Give me an O-H-I-O-!In episode 12, we did a broad overview of ADHD. We started with the hyperactive subtype. We ran out of time to delve into the the inattentive and combined subtype.Here, we review the definition and diagnosis of ADHD and then focus on the inattentive subtype, learning when and how these kids typically present to our attention. We discuss how gender may increase the likelihood of various subtypes and the importance of treatment of the whole person. We discuss the possibility of undiagnosed ADHD leading to other intrinsic and extrinsic behavior problems, thus reinforcing the importance of early diagnosis and treatment. So much of behavior intervention is recognizing our parental bias and instinct, cleaning our 'lense' when appropriate, and seeing our kids for who they are. Kids are not intrinsically bad or malicious. Beneath their sometimes troublesome and aggravating behavior is a child with a need and it is our job as parents and caregivers to uncover this root cause. 

Everything you ever wanted to know about ADHD...continues! WOOHOO! Go back and check out Parts I & III, or start here to learn more about dopamine, how to differentiate someone with ADHD v. someone who is neurotypical, why folx with ADHD run late, and what the impacts are on school (sadly, so far, not great) when someone is labeled with ADHD and receives accommodations. The things that are easy, hard, and all the myths and misperceptions that exist about what is really not a deficit, but rather an abundance and variety of, attention. The third part of a series from David, who has lectured as an expert and advocate on this subject nationally, and assisted by Isabelle, who is eagerly sponging up the information. A neurodivergent and neurotypical blend of friends Christina, AJ, Gabe, and Isabelle's husband, Bobby, sit in to ask questions. (Part III of David's Lecture Series)-----Isabelle & David welcome Isabelle's husband, Bobby, and their friends, Christina, AJ, and Gabe, to continue to listen and learn from David's tried and tested presentation on ADHD, which he normally gives to fellow clinicians (for the first and second parts of this talk, please see episode 4, All About ADHD Part I and episode 6, All About ADHD Part II). David talks about procrastination, and why it raises the stakes, thus generating more dopamine (the chemical in our brain that gives us a feeling of reward or satisfaction), which folx with ADHD are deficient in. He relates this to the idea that winning, or a win/lose condition, as something that generates dopamine: if we leave for somewhere that is 10 minutes away with 9 minutes to go, if we get there in time, we feel like we beat the clock (won). Also, as we run late to something, for example, we raise the stakes and leave so that we will run late—thus, giving us dopamine—but we're often miserable and blaming ourselves the whole time. Miserable, and loaded with dopamine: reinforcing the behavior that we are also blaming/shaming ourselves for. How struggles with time management (guessing how long something will take or how all the pieces will fit together) make transitions and running late even harder, and how it is important for neurotypical partners and folx to know it is not done on purpose. How to differentiate (or diagnose) someone with ADHD when a lot of symptoms of ADHD also occur in neurotypical folx (like procrastination? Enjoying sex?). Most psychological diagnoses are connected to things many people experience (such as anxiety); and most humans will struggle with executive functioning skills, but all folx with ADHD will struggle with these skills (see below for a list of skills!). Furthermore, when we get into how people recognize and learn from mistakes, that's when you see ADHD: a person with ADHD will make these mistakes a lot more often and also carry a lot more shame and self-blame for doing them because of just how often they make them. Neuropsych (short for neuropsychological testing) can help find an ADHD diagnosis but can also miss it. For example, audience member AJ names going to go to the store and seeing the coupons, but skipping the step of putting them in your pocket (ADHD)—and a pattern of this experience, over and over again (plus the “Why did I do this AGAIN!” feeling). David's use of the Yoda voice “There is no later, only now!” Talking about the shame spiral of the pattern of this happening over and over again. Major consequences of growing up with ADHD - social and school. Folx with ADHD, if they are diagnosed as having it impact their learning (remember: ADHD is not necessarily a learning disability, it must be shown to be impacting learning), they are often tracked with lower level classes and are given accommodations to suit lower IQ students (make things easier). Dilemma there is most people with ADHD have above average IQ: with this setup, they are under stimulated in school, and also isolated and marginalized, systemically. Sharing different school experiences, from being in gifted programs to transitional programs, to having LD labels: and the validation of folx with ADHD often disliking school (especially when they receive accommodations). Seen as if you're doing it on purpose. Especially kicks in around ages 9-10, when peers start normalizing your world v. Your family. Talking about kids will naturally accommodate themselves in school (figure out bare minimum grade, skip homework but do well on a test, for example)—but when they do this, for example, not doing homework, can be read as personal (by the teacher) or avoid the consequences.Dopamine deficiency? ADHD is often understood as neurobiological (brain) difference, that includes lower levels of dopamine, the neurotransmitter (messenger chemical) in our brain that gives us feelings of satisfaction and reward—the feeling of YOU DID IT…ahhhhhhh. Another way of viewing it is a neurotypical person has a shot-glass-sized need for dopamine and so little bits of dopamine fill it up enough to feel that satiation, whereas a person with ADHD has a pint-glass-sized need for dopamine. At times, you need a lot more dopamine and are starving for it, but at other times, you have so much dopamine it is so rewarding (and perhaps the reward feeling while eating that doughnut is actually that much greater), but it also makes it even harder to pull away or transition from getting that dopamine to not (imagine how hard it is to not keep watching a show you love or how it would feel if someone suddenly unplugged the tv). Keep in mind that dopamine is just one of the neurotransmitters doing some fun other stuff where ADHD is concerned.DAVID'S DEFINITIONS:ADD or Attention Deficit Disorder: is an outdated diagnostic label that also used to a serve as a marker (often perpetuating some shame and stigma) differentiating a person from someone who had ADHD or the hyperactive part of ADHD. Currently, everything is called ADHD, with the following subtypes: inattentive type (too much brakes), impulsive type (too much gas), or combined type (too much of one or the other depending on the environment someone is in). Folx diagnosed with ADD will often present as ADHD inattentive or combined subtype.Neuropsych(ological) Testing: can be very expensive, and is one way to get an official diagnosis for ADHD (another is meeting with a licensed clinician who does a thorough social/school/work/life history combined with self-diagnosis). Neuropsych tests assess your reactions and responses to different challenges, and can be helpful in either the validation of a diagnosis or awareness in what kinds of supports/accommodation and modifications might be helpful. It should be noted that these tests are largely dependent on the examiner's evaluation, and aren't perfect and can be wrong.From the Cleveland Clinic: "A neuropsychological evaluation is a test to measure how well a person's brain is working. The abilities tested include reading, language usage, attention, learning, processing speed, reasoning, remembering, problem-solving, mood and personality and more"Procrastination: (For more, see also Episode 008-Are we designed to procrastinate?)this is the behavior that occurs in between the assignment of a task, and working on the task. This is waiting to the last minute, or wh...

Everything you ever wanted to know about ADHD...continues! WOOHOO! Go back and check out Part I, or start here to learn more about what's happening in the brain, how to use environments to cue ourselves, how debate and manufactured fights can be ways to help you focus, and more! The things that are easy, hard, and all the myths and misperceptions that exist about what is really not a deficit, but rather an abundance and variety of, attention. The second part in a series from David, who has lectured as an expert and advocate on this subject nationally, and assisted by Isabelle, who is eagerly sponging up the information. A neurodivergent and neurotypical blend of friends Christina, AJ, Gabe, and Isabelle's husband, Bobby, sit in to ask questions. (Part II of David's Lecture Series)---(Part II of David's Lecture Series) Isabelle & David welcome Isabelle's husband, Bobby, and their friends, Christina, AJ, and Gabe, to continue to listen and learn from David's tried and tested presentation on ADHD, which he normally gives to fellow clinicians (for the first part of this talk, please see episode 4, David's Lecture: All About ADHD!).  We talk about Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) which often also exists alongside ADHD; however, they are two different things. ADHD can make you more prone to distraction when you hear sounds, no APD (see definition below).  ADHD can also coexist with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). David gets nerdy about how blood flow to certain parts of our brain connects to distraction, and how our environment can also cue us to shift blood flow to the forebrain (prefrontal cortex). Gabe notes that sports served as an important accommodation. David makes the comparison that it's like having an energy bar in a video game, and if you don't use it during your day, it will become anxious rumination at night. David and Bobby get distracted by Bobby's audio equipment (or Bobby tweaking his audio settings) and David points out that being oppositional rewards us with dopamine. Debate as a dopamine booster. As a parent, how do you get out of power struggles. Talking about ADHD as too much gas (hyperactive) and too much brakes (inattentive); combined type is both, and environmentally cued (the more comfortable you are, the more gas; the less comfortable you are, the more brakes).  What about ADHD on vacation? We can get more irritable or more chill, and it can be because we have uprooted our accommodations: the structure we have in place at home that helps us get along. So we can start to manufacture structure (including undertaking vacation-only projects, getting into a predictable arguments, reading a book in a day, etc.). When we understand how ADHD impacts us (for example, starting to write a book on vacation to cleverly avoid interactions we don't want to have, plus building in structure…but not finishing because we didn't factor in the response cost of it) we can work with it.Click here for slides from David's lecture.How genetically loaded is ADHD?Pretty loaded. For more on this, check out this article in Nature (prepare for science!)On a related note, this article also points to ADHD being more of a spectrum than previously thought; as the article mentions:"Accumulating evidence from family, twin, and molecular genetic studies suggests that the disorder we know as ADHD is the extreme of a dimensional trait in the population. The dimensional nature of ADHD has wide-ranging implications. If we view ADHD as analogous to cholesterol levels, then diagnostic approaches should focus on defining the full continuum of “ADHD-traits” along with clinically meaningful thresholds for defining who does and does not need treatment and who has clinically subthreshold traits that call for careful monitoring. The dimensional nature of ADHD should also shift the debate about the increases in ADHD's prevalence in recent years. Instead of assuming that misdiagnoses are the main explanation for the increased prevalence, perhaps researchers should explore to what extent the threshold for diagnosis has decreased over time and whether changes in the threshold are clinically sensible or not.”In other words, ADHD is part of a set of traits that live along a spectrum, and since we tend to diagnose ADHD when those traits/behaviors/experiences are read as a problem, we lump it into it's own bag, when really it might turn out to be a neurodivergent branch of the same tree. And so those with ADHD can exist all along a spectrum, too! Hence: calling it attentional variability rather than a deficit.DAVID'S DEFINITIONS:Auditory Processing Disorder (APD): a hearing disorder and has to do with how the brain processes auditory information. APD can impact attention as well, but it's not ADHD. Note: ADHD can make it harder to hear certain sounds, for example a person's voice in a noisy setting, but the mechanism behind why it's hard is different than APD. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs): a group of developmental differences (AKA neurodiversity or differences in the brain) that can cause increased sensitivity to stimulation, social, communication and behavioral challenges.  Prefrontal Cortex (PFC): also known as the forebrain, is a part of the brain that, through dopamine, is linked to executive functioning, or the skills (check out the list below) that help you pay attention, curb your impulses, take in memories (working memory), and play with different scenarios and outcomes (cognitive flexibility), for starters. For further reading, check out this super science-y article. Forebrain skills that are harder for folks with ADHD (no matter the type): Response Cost - neurological skill that helps you know the consequences of your actions later on down the road Delay of Gratification - receiving the reward or win, well after the behavior occurs.Black and White Thinking - believing or acting as if there are only two ways of thinking right or wrong. Black and white thinking makes it harder to see middle paths during an argumentTime and Organization Skills - knowing how long tasks will take, planning transition times into tasks, appropriately guessing how long something will take, or all parts of time and organizational skills.-------cover art by: Sol Vázqueztechnical support by: Bobby Richards

Inattentive Driving is Distracted Driving I'm David Holub, an attorney focusing on personal injury law in northwest Indiana. Welcome to Personal Injury Primer, where we break down the law into simple terms, provide legal tips, and discuss personal injury law topics. Today's question came from a caller whose driver's assist package malfunctioned and caused his […] The post Ep 263 – Inattentive Driving is Distracted Driving first appeared on Personal Injury Primer.

ADHD has many nuances and is often misunderstood and stereotyped. In an attempt to better understand the ways ADHD can present in daily life, this episode uses the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria as a framework for discussion—this is not an endorsement of the DSM-5. In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk about the DSM-5 criteria for the inattentive subtype of ADHD, as well as share their personal experiences. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand the DSM-5 criteria for ADHD, offering a deeper understanding of the inattentive, combined, and hyperactive subtypes. Hear about Dr. Neff and Patrick's struggles with inattentive traits of ADHD, including household chores, daily activities, the overwhelming feeling of decision fatigue, and the resulting “ADHD Tax.” Discover some ways that Patrick and Dr. Neff cope with the day-to-day struggles of ADHD, from managing time and prioritizing tasks to overcoming the hurdles of incomplete projects and decision fatigue. As you listen, you might find parts of these criteria and stories that resonate with your own life, whether you have ADHD or simply face similar struggles. We encourage you to stay curious about your own experiences and continue exploring these important topics. DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM-5. Resources: ADHD DSM In pictures series: Blog post: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/dsm-5-criteria-for-adhd-explained-in-pictures PDF: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/adhd-dsm-in-pictures ——————————————————————————————————

Everything you ever wanted to know about ADHD. Seriously. From what's happening in the brain, to how it's experienced day to day--the things that are easy, hard, and all the myths and misperceptions that exist about what is really not a deficit, but rather an abundance and variety of, attention. The first part in a series from David, who has lectured as an expert and advocate on this subject nationally, and assisted by Isabelle, who is eagerly sponging up the information. A neurodivergent and neurotypical blend of friends Christina, AJ, Gabe, and Isabelle's husband, Bobby, sit in to ask questions.(Part I of David's All About ADHD Lecture Series)-----Isabelle & David welcome Isabelle's husband, Bobby, and their friends, Christina, AJ, and Gabe, to listen and learn from David's tried and tested presentation on ADHD, which he normally gives to fellow clinicians. ADD and ADHD are the same thing. ADHD is not a learning disability, it's a brain difference. People with ADHD don't automatically qualify for accommodations in schools, need to prove they are struggling hard enough. ADHD is all about the forebrain—the roses of our brain—everything that makes you, you, and makes you unique. Blood tends to flow into the forebrain when you are making decisions. For people with ADHD (see below!), being directed to do something is not doing it. You can look at a red dot, for example, just under different environmental contexts. It's not a deficit of attention, it's variability of attention. As you're demanding more focus, you lose the ability to focus, unless there's a crisis. The root word for patience is suffering. But someone with ADHD experiences much more distress (physiologically) when they are understimulated. Boredom/waiting without structure is the worst. Response cost (see definition below) makes it hard for us to know when we're doing something that has a consequence further on down the road. The act of debating gives you dopamine. Dopamine deficiency? See more about dopamine deficiency below. Do you ever hear someone get angry when they look away from the screen (WHAT?!) It's because they're being starved from dopamine when you're already starving. What elicits hyperfocus instead of distraction? The environment: safety, comfort, consistency, the person's experience/mastery. With ADHD, they need greater levels of stimulation (hyperactive type) or structure (inattentive type) to attend? Again, ADHD is best not thought about as a deficit of attention: attention variability. We have an overabundance of attention. A neurotypical person can attend to whatever in whatever environment, and if they can't, much easier for them to identify and advocate for what's interfering with that (for example, “I can't hear you, the fridge is making a weird noise!”) Whereas for someone with ADHD, it connects to self-esteem, much more difficult to ask for what you need because it makes you think you're different or deficient or you missed the thing that's interfering to begin with. It's the ability to have self-esteem to advocate for the learning environment. We start to touch on ADHD and its link to Auditory Processing Disorder.To see some of David's slides from this presentation, click here (or visit somethingshinypodcast.com)ADHD types explained through how we buy a printer we need:inattentive type: struggles to buy the printer, doesn't take into account the cost of a lack of a printer, buys one six months laterimpulsive type: buys two printers, means to put the other one up for sale, forgets to, sits in a corner for six monthscombination type: see above and experience BOTH, often depending on your level of mastery/comfort (more impulsive). Oh, it's fun.Forebrain skills that are harder for folks with ADHD (no matter the type): Response Cost: neurological skill that helps you know the consequences of your actions later on down the road Delay of Gratification - receiving the reward or win, well after the behavior occurs.Black and White Thinking - believing or acting as if there are only two ways of thinking right or wrong. Black and white thinking makes it harder to see middle paths during an argumentTime and Organization Skills - knowing how long tasks will take, planning transition times into tasks, appropriately guessing how long something will take, or all parts of time and organizational skills.Dopamine deficiency? ADHD is often understood as neurobiological (brain) difference, that includes lower levels of dopamine, the neurotransmitter (messenger chemical) in our brain that gives us feelings of satisfaction and reward—the feeling of YOU DID IT…ahhhhhhh.  Keep in mind that dopamine is just one of the neurotransmitters doing some fun other stuff where ADHD is concerned.The Red Dot Study… came from a book David was reading off his colleague's bookshelf, pre-pandemic. Pandemic happened. Office closed (permanently). No memory of the author. We will keep looking for it, but in the meantime, our apologies and here is a study with similar findings: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3763932/-------Cover art by: Sol VázquezTechnical support by: Bobby RichardsThank you to Christina, Gabe, and AJ for being our audience

David and Isabelle welcome Ren, a fellow therapist with ADHD,  who digs into what was rough and unique about being homeschooled as a neurodivergent person. From the spaghettification-like transition to college, to the stereotypes of homeschooling as being for white Jesus-Jumper-wearing Christians (Duggar style), what it means to face things like frustrating and nonsensical busy work, a lack of structure, and learning how to study from television.  Tackling questions about confidence, self-image, and Dickensonian skull-caps. Part II of a series. —-David wonders what different versions of homeschooling Ren was exposed to growing up—they describe a number of different structures, and that their family lived more on the structured side. Studies were more experiential, going to plays or museums or reading books on your own versus just listening to lectures. You'd do things based on your own pace, and it was almost entirely moms—a lot of it was birth order, the eldest kids had different experience because mom's had more practice, and got a little more tired. Ren doesn't want to pain too rosy a picture, it was a big struggle for many when they left the system and hit college—maybe more help with the big transition? Ren spent a lot of their first year of college depressed, going from being the ‘best' by being a class of 1, do what I want when I want, to suddenly “you expect me to sit in this class multiple hours, multiple times a week, listening to you talk…and then do more stuff later?” Ren never had their time wasted by an authority figure, or the concept of busy work. Isabelle pictures this as a froyo shop model of education, where you get to try so many different things and combinations—a sense of autonomy and a sense of reassurance. In order to feel confident, you need to trust your experience, stealing from Good Inside with Dr. Becky. As caregivers we cut off emotional states, you can't trust your own assessment of your own experience, and we're coming in with a counter of “you don't have to have that feeling,” because you don't get a gauge for validation. Also offering empathy for Freshman-year Ren, like they saw through the Matrix and had already seen through it. Isabelle feels like the opposite of Ren—she went to school 6 days every week, she had a really old school Polish lessons on Saturdays based on the Polish school system. Isabelle is like the tame bird, while Ren feels like they were free and then were being told to go into a cage.  David is realizing he would not have survived if he was Ren—the hardest thing was everything they just described, he was oppositional, he'd drag his feet at everything. David almost saw this as spaghettification, like if you're in two places of different pressures you'll turn into spaghetti (see below, yikes, we edited out a more detailed and graphic description, be warned if you go down this rabbit hole). Ren walked into places with no defenses, which Ren relates to colonization, "oh hi, it's the Pilgrims again." They were touch-starved because as the eldest of 6, they hadn't gone a day without someone in their space, but they were also failing at the thing they were good at, and they were supposed to learn how to study. They learned about how people do school on tv—they'd gather up their textbooks and just sit at the library for 7 hours because that's what studying ‘looks like.' They dealt with it by doing the closest thing to being a home schooler, which was being a theater major. An on-ramp would've been nice. Isabelle wants to mention that the part they edited out about spaghettification, if you went down the rabbit hole and it's a lot and you're not alone, and maybe we just trauma bonded and yikes. There was a developmental trajectory that moved more and more into a ‘feeling more free' direction—the more BS David could do, the more autonomy he got, and so he got rewarded for doing the BS which helped him later on down the line. Isabelle wonders if Ren was learning more intrinsically v. extrinsically, because you want your own self-reference for building pride and capacity v. approval—where did this anxiety start, if for 18 years they had themselves as their own self-reference? How it can take just one awful educational experience to challenge your sense of self. Up until college, all of Ren's anxiety was about going to Hell—after college, it switched to everything else—they are getting things wrong in a way that is invisible to me, and everybody else feels like what's going on. Everyone else has seen the same things, but they are outside the bubble, was like an alien trying to blend in. What is a Jesus jumper, you may wonder? A long denim skirt that goes to the ankle, if you think of a potato sack with a sleeplessness. On the other end of the spectrum from Ren's mom, they did not wear Jesus jumpers and let their girls go to the college, but a lot of people think of this. The home school reference for people is white and Duggar style, Jesus jumper. So Ren's identity before college was good at running the household, not being difficult, being good at school and after college they needed to find a new thing, because nobody needs them to run a household anymore and school is requiring tasks that are stupid. So they became a stage manager because that was as close to running a household, and the validation of people needing you and the structure of rehearsals and it became their new thing. David keeps hearing that there are so many people that normalize their life based on TV—it's so real, like the Norman Rockwell version of studying with a feather pen and books on a table in a library, that's really studying. If it looks right, I'm doing it. Isabelle wonders if this is Norman Rockwell or Dickens—and the reason she suspects this, is because she was really into historical fiction, adoring the American Girl books and she was the kid that actually asked for a quill pen for her birthday, she wanted a candle, melted wax stamps, she's into everything David is saying. It's possible that for her for her studying that looked like this Dickensonian image may actually have been an accommodation. Good Inside with Dr. Becky - talking about confidenceSpaghettificationHomeschool representation tends to be white and fundamentalist and wearing a Jesus Jumper (like the Duggars)-----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby RichardsSpecial Thanks to Ren for sharing their brilliance with us!

David and Isabelle are delighted to be joined by their colleague, Ren, a fellow therapist who describes their journey to understanding their neurodivergence. From to what it was like growing up the eldest of six kids and being homeschooled until college, to how different it is to cope with our neurodivergence when we recognize that it's "for keeps," to how we have a "cartoon" of ourselves that can do it all. Covering questions about structure, how strange it is to remove the pressure of having anxiety all the time through medications and accommodations, and how White supremacy generates the myth that the world is a level or equal place for everyone. Part I of a series.—-David and Isabelle welcome their colleague and amazing friend, Ren! David is excited for Ren to share their story because they were not traditionally schooled, but were homeschooled from the second day of 1st grade. On the second day of 1st grade, a kid named Jack who had bullied them all through Kindergarten, was going to do the same thing in first grade, and their mom decided—how about we not? Also, connected to their parents not being pleased with the school system in St. Louis, and they were also evangelical Christian, which factored in. They came to their diagnosis later in life, when they were already working at the Willow Center with David and Isabelle, and their friend Robin was thinking about them being newly diagnosed, and Ren was listening going “it's not that dramatic, that's not ADHD?” Do they just think they have ADHD because they work with a bunch of openly neurodivergent people? Then Ren talked to Robin about it for about 12 hours and realized that they were. As part of diagnosis, people are often asked about school, and Ren was not only homeschooled, but fit the eldest daughter stereotype in that they were in charge of their own schooling. And of course their school record looks like everything is fine because they were in charge of their own progress and record. Isabelle wonders what some of the things Ren thought were “normal, not ADHD” were—what tipped them off? Ren describes that them and their friend were both people with advanced degrees, and a big history of anxiety—and the way boredom works and anxiety can serve as a way to self-medicate as an accommodation. It doesn't take three hours to stress yourself out to be able to do a task—the abstract of how you think. You've been working with static in your brain forever and everyone else is not doing the static? Ren has done a lot of identity work whereas this is a jacket that just fits—“I don't have to work myself so hard to work.” David would brag “I just sat down and read the other day.” It's incredible, I don't have to fight to keep my eyes on one page, and then I retain it, and then I write about it. About 90% of their anxiety just went away. Isabelle names that when the anxiety is reduced so much, how does she get things done? It came before she was really conscious of accommodation strategies, it felt like she was unmasking way more rapidly than when she was conscious of it and replacing her anxiety with accommodations. It forced her to embrace all these limitations and then it made her feel icky to really face her actual limitations. Ren names that it was different when it is “for keeps” — and Isabelle used to think she had limitless potential but actually now she has to accept the page has been cut off. It serves her more to admit she can't—but anxiety told me I could, if I just did more! Ren describes it as cartoon you—and also cartoon partner—the real person has limits, and you see yourself as a cartoon that's limitless, and that contrast can motivate you, but also not. David wasn't sitting in anxiety as much as shame, and the ADHD diagnosis came later in the life, and all of a sudden the world was not longer level, but had ice shelfs and ridges, and much more complicated environment, meant that he could unpack shame. But also this is how white supremacy affects all of us, the idea that the world is level is ridiculous. Ren is Black, AFAB, Queer, nonbinary, and so the concept of the world is level is not a real thing. In the 80's and 90's, David names that there was this whole idea that the world should be equal, mainstreaming, “you got your needs met, so you're failing now…” and it didn't really work. David's bias is around creating inclusion and having all sorts of neurotypical and meurodivergent kids doing the same work with different expectations and breaking the illusion that the world is level. Ren's way of homeschooling was the way that the schooling then applied to her other 5 siblings; they were the type A, just want to learn something. Their mom was still asleep and they woke their mom up, saying “it's time for you to teach me something.” Their brother was diagnosed early, took their fridge apart, and Ren was reading and researching all the things. They were already at the top off the hierarchy in terms of learning, and you could tell which kids in the homeschooling group could adapt to the school environment and which kids never should be in this environment. Isabelle is curious what the homeschool environment looks like? What was the structure like? 13 year age gap between all the kids, their mom had the most executive functioning in the family—there was a list of subjects and a bunch of criteria for the subjects; she purchased textbooks, literature, and a homeschool group of a couple hundred, and they would get together and swap resources. Couple of a moms were good at music, and art, and match, and everyone would swap resources. Their transition to college was “oh God, so much being told what to do at all time.” Every year they took a state test to see what grade level they were at, and would get progress reports. Their mom worked in education her whole life, so she was not dropping standards but doing it for religious reasons. There was a vibrant community and not being penalized for wiggling. It was an evangelical Christian homeschool bubble, but nobody's mom had the time or energy to be committed to you sitting still, they were trying to pack lunch for 8 people. For Ren, that concept of asking an authority figure for permission to move their body from place to place—this only happened on tv. -----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby RichardsSpecial Thanks to Ren for sharing their brilliance with us!

In this hodgepodge of truth bombs, David and Isabelle cover a bit about how menopause and hormonal changes make it less rewarding to help others, how to assume your partner is doing more than you and turn tedious tasks into bigger wins, and how much we still need positive reinforcement as adults. That David and Isabelle explore the truth that in every silverware drawer there is a good spoon and a bad fork...and the return of David's beloved industrial-pack of fruit leather for a true ice cream win.—-We talk all about how kids need routine and structure and compassion and positive reinforcement, but you're going about your life as a parent or adult, and you may want to yell “I need an adult!” And there is no one. David then names that parents beat themselves up because we didn't do the taxes or whatever—but you just needed help. How much you need to do in a day, it is an impossible task. People that get everything done in a day are not happy. Isabelle shares that it helps her to stay busy when she's taking care of everything all the time instead of staying present when she's understimulated by playing with kids in activities she's not super jazzed about (despite her kids being incredible!) What does it mean to chronically take care of everyone's needs…and then menopause hits and suddenly, after perhaps toxically trying to take care of everyone all the time and making that where you get your sense of value from, you have to reset? This brings up all the hormonal shifts women experience throughout life—puberty, menstrual cycles, trying to conceive, pregancies, perimenopause and menopause (technically perimenopause lasts on average 3-5 years and menopause lasts on average 7-14 years, so I guess it's a 10-20 year span depending). David names that dopamine bonds to estrogen, you will naturally feel good taking care of people, and then all of a sudden it cuts off, it's gone—so doing the things you used to no longer provides any enjoyment and what do you do now? Acknowledging that no one talks about it and partners are left flummoxed. Isabelle is standing on her little rebounder/trampoline and almost fell off because it was hitting her that this makes so much sense but also, WTF?!  Why isn't this a part of our larger conversation? Because everywhere in medicine, we are following a history and setup that is designed to care for cis, White men and we're missing so many people and leaving people feeling like they're doing something wrong. In his day to day, David tries to be extra careful about what he makes other people responsible for, and actively attempts to take things off of someone else's plate. Because he can see this affecting everyone in his life—checking his male privilege. But beyond this, it's also that he assumes his partner is doing more than him at all times—whether this is true or not. It changes the establishing operation and puts new value onto the little things. It means because we take the hit we will do it for our team or our group member. It makes tedious tasks into being more important. As a parent you are also busy parenting yourself, you have to see yourself through things as an adult, and you practice doing it for yourself. For neurodivergent folx, we can struggle with identifying with the internal states we have or our emotions or expressing the emotion. Isabelle finds it is easier to externalize her feelings, like visualizing a little you needing things and speaking to that little you makes it easier for her to figure out what she's actually feeling and needing. Also comes from not having a bunch of fellow neurodivergent people around you sometimes, if there is no person around you to validate you, your experience gets missed--you need to get that mirrored back. It's like being a room of neurodivergent people and suddenly feeling that someone else gets how in every drawer there is a "good spoon" and a "bad fork." Isabelle deeply concurs. There are bad forks! There are good spoons!  there's a good spoon in every drawer—which leads Isabelle down the road of ice cream spades and sample spoons (go Jeni's) — and what about ice cream scoops? David thinks we should be able to slice out our ice cream with dental floss or peel away the outside of the carton, or even have a timer system and go to town. Isabelle remembers how her friends that worked at ice cream shops would grow massive Popeye arms (just on the side they were scooping with). Her kid also showed her how to use the ice cream scoop, she's hacking away at the ice cream scoop, it's not dissimilar to how to watch kids pick things up—full squat to pick things up. Because of heaviness and just nature, kid let the weight of the scoop do the work and then twisted it. She has not been able to be replicate it, and it is maybe part her and part scoop that leads to this problem she has with the scoops. David believes it is still an engineering flaw. David then shares his recent ice cream invention, using his giant packs of fruit leather. Cut out like wide pizza slices of fruit leather, fill with a spoonful of ice cream, then wrap fruit leather around the ice cream. You gotta work fast because it freezes instantly...but then you can handhold your ice cream. We will totally collaborate with a listener who wants to partner with us on creating the perfect ice cream scoop. This also brings up how for David, the key to being able to wait for his fruit leather was totally forgetting about it. The best hack for delaying gratification? Forgetting you're waiting. Forgetting is way easier than remembering, actually--you skip the extra steps and accommodations you use to remember (like marking your calendar, flagging the email, writingi it down)...and voila! Distract yourself! Teflon mind (minus the hazardous chemicals).Rocky Road to Perimenopause (Harvard Health) Menopausal transition (NIH Institute on Aging)Dopamine loss with estrogen loss (as in menopause)Dopamine's relationship to serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate Jeni's is an OHIO thing The spoons mentioned are the Jeni's tasting spoons and ice cream spades; if you go to your local Jeni's or order from your specific closer shop, you can find them; they won't appear on the main Jeni's merch site. -----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby RichardsSpecial Thanks to Jeni's. For our ice cream tasting spoons, spades, and flavors. Isabelle recalls the glory of your ol' sundaes...with that dark chocolate and amarena cherries and candied pecans and buttery fresh whipped cream...(sigh). 

Watching your child struggle is pretty much the worst. Not knowing what to do about it is more than icing on the doo-doo cake. I've got your back, mama! In this episode of Motherhood in ADHD, I dive into the rollercoaster of emotions and challenges of parenting a struggling child. When your child needs help, but you don't know where to begin, this episode is for you. From dealing with overwhelming chaos to understanding the unique dynamics in a family affected by ADHD, here are my key tips to help you navigate the stress. So, buckle up, mama, because we're about to unpack the struggle bus and turn it into the ambulance you need for support during a crisis. In this episode, I'm sharing the five essential C's for helping your struggling child. First up, we zoom in on crisis management and understanding what's on fire before taking action. Then, we delve into the critical aspect of self-care for moms because, let's be honest, we can't pour from an empty unicorn mug. We also explore caring for our kids, making sure they find their own spaces to shine and thrive. Plus, we emphasize the importance of building strong connections and boosting our kids' confidence, because every little victory matters. So, put on your driving gloves, grab a cup (or 40 oz travel mug) of coffee, and get ready to drive into a world of empathy, support, and practical advice on nurturing your struggling child. If you want to join us in person, we're discussing parenting WITH ADHD in March & April in Successful Mama Meetups. Because among the chaos, you're already a fantastic mom who's trying her best, and you're not alone in this bumpy journey. I'm hosting a new parenting workshop series to raise money for my child's Gifted & Talented program, which lost funding last month.  Thanks for supporting the kids and their teachers: patriciasung.com/gt Find links to everything mentioned in this episode & read the transcript here: https://www.patriciasung.com/podcast/episode-219-parenting-struggling-child-with-adhd-how-to-help-kid-in-crisis

How do you teach yourself (and/or children) how to stop, especially when you want to keep going/overcommitting/hyperfocusing? Like videogames, sugar, saying yes to everyone and being—anything addictive—how do you actually stop? David and Isabelle explore the difference between maximizing your time and actually setting reality checks for time blindness (which is real! We have FIVE MINUTES, after all…), how we experientially learn how to start/spot hyper focus things (when we have opportunity to do them), operationalizing and externalizing tasks, and digging into parenting strategies like punishments and limits (not just for parents, btw). —-It's a dog whistle, if anyone listens to our show not on double speed, they are our friend, welcome to team shiny. Isabelle is still digesting the idea of what it means to put things down, to pause, to slow down, to ask herself “is now the time to do the thing?” And she wonders if this comes up against how rough time blindness is real. The idea that things are either now or not now. If she doesn't do it now, when she's thinking of it, and she has the wherewithal to do it—she's going to forget it and not do it. She's gotten ten messages at the same time telling her “multitasking is not great” and find a way to do one thing at a time, and in a sequence. But she does better with more stimulation, so isn't more is better in terms of keeping more tabs open at the same time? Which David agrees, if we close a tab, we're never going to remember about the website, we have to have tabs open—the way we see the world, and object relations. When we put things on a table, it just becomes a part of the table. You won't notice it again until someone says something about it and you have to address it. There is an immediacy to things. David wants to rebrand what multitasking is, we have to find new ways to think of time. There was a TikTok where someone goes “5 minutes is an eternity, but 300 seconds is not an eternity” if David thought he had 300 seconds he might not do so much, but if it's five minutes he's going to do ten things like change jacket and switch shoes and start dishes and unload laundry.  We will naturally try to maximize what we're doing in a time frame. And the end of time is a transition—it's really hard to stop and complete the task. The dilemma is: how many things can we do in this moment in time so we feel like we've maximized the 15 pounds of material in the 10 pound bag. There is a lot of starting on 18 things—but then the same thing happens, all those things in motion become part of the scenery, and then we're stuck without the things we didn't complete. So when we stack our time with 10 things, we lose every time because we have 5 things we don't complete. Isabelle is into embroidery, her new hyperfixation—it's always a loss to put it down, and it hits extra hard to stop hyperfocus. And then there's the thing where she doesn't want to do something and she has five minutes and she's going to do so much before she gets to her doctor's appointment. This is not dissimilar to how she habitually overcommits herself. Of course she wants to help, and it's always a yes, it's always enthusiastic consent. But when she's faced with doing it, she feels total failure, and it connects to the thing where actually she feels like she's failing even more. David is clarifying: one intervention is just for one person. So for David, he puts on his good day socks and thinks of something to do—so he makes a note. Then, when he has a pocket of time in his day, he looks at his list of things and picks one—he knows he cannot do them all. But then Isabelle wonders: how do you remember to only do one thing? David names that this connects to hyper focus and momentum, like when Isabelle is getting into the knitting—to which she replies, no, it is not knitting, where you count stitches, she cannot do that. This is embroidery, where you stab cloth over and over again and see results real fast. And David wonders, as an adult, you can dictate space and time to do this—but what if you wanted to do something, but you couldn't dictate the time to do it—it would be sad making, but more than that, you'd want to do the thing MORE. Is this what happens with kids and video games? With a lot of addictive things, like candy, eating— the more rigid we are, the more we reinforce counter control, the more likely they're going to want the things we're supposed to have.  This is how kids with candy in the house don't grow up to binge on candy because it was normalized how to interact with it. This resonates with a book Isabelle has yet to read, Low Demand Parenting (see below) that connects to how limits on screen time, routines, punishments, even gentle parenting techniques that are really reflective and ask the kids to really think about their thoughts and feelings may not easily apply to neurodivergent kids—because they all emphasize self-regulation and executive functioning, which is the whole thing we're not great at. So she just thought about the values she thought about building up relationship and confidence, you don't have to do hard things alone, building up autonomy, if it's kept from me and someone else is the game keeper, I never learn how to manage it though practicing. And David adds, you never get satiation, you never get ‘enough,' you never internally experientially learn “it's not the right amount for me,” like the tummy ache you get when you eat too much sugar. It's also that you innately start to learn what to do when, including hyper focusing on things: it's not that you're not that you're not allowed to do it, it's when you do it. And you don't have to earn it, what's the baseline you get for just being a human and it doesn't get taken away. Never take away a coping mechanism, a self-soothing mechanism, like videogames, or books, or interacting with friends, because if you take away the coping skill as punishment you are taking away the thing you need to self-regulate, so you have less of the thing you need to be able to stop or regulate. Also, you get locked in power struggles, which with neurodivergent folk is like watching the bears eat each other, as Isabelle puts it. David names: the emphasis should not be providing consequences to make someone to do “right,” it's how can you get someone to feel enough wins to feel good—this helps with behavior change. If punishment works, it only works with that reinforcer (aka with that person). You don't learn to not do the thing in general, you learn to not do the thing with that person. Or like larger rules, a family David knows would tell the kid “don't touch, it's hot and dangerous!” And that became the thing they'd say when something was dangerous “that's hot!” And then when it came time for the kid to actually test the boundaries they felt like they couldn't really trust what people said because things…weren't hot. Isabelle is by no means a perfect parent. In fact, she yells, she meltdown, she shame spirals all the time—this is a thing she's very much learning. And she'll give herself credit that when unmasked, she is pretty direct and blunt, and takes away the mystery and just names the thing and the context for the thing, like swearing. This makes her think of swearing and her dear friend who is neurodivergent, who delivers data on a thing with maximum warmth and bluntness. This is something she wishes would visit her when she's doing too much: “Dear, that's impossible. Pick one thing.” Low Demand Parenting by Amanda Diekman

Why is it that I have 1000 planners/calendars/whiteboards and still forget stuff all the time? It's not you, it's them: they don't ask you to attend to them, they are passive things that don't ask you to attend to them. David and Isabelle dig into why voice assistants (like Amazon's Alexa, Google Assistant, Apple's Siri) are a potentially useful neurodivergent accommodation strategy—and no judgment if you value your privacy above the outsourcing your working memory. Covering visual timers, what to avoid if you're setting up a reminder program, and the power of a slow clap.  —-Isabelle does not like to be scheduling, she likes to have scheduled. She does not like to holiday, she likes to have had a holiday season. During the recent holiday break, it was a structureless day, the kids were home, Bobby was working, and Isabelle was in one room all day, and realized how much of her executive functioning short circuited, and also how much her memory is reliant upon changing rooms, and sequences of physical actions, all of which were missing because everyone was on break and out of routine. So she found a cheap system for a voice assistant. And it has been game changing for her family. It doesn't have to live inside her head, the routines, the rhythms. There is an external nag doing the nagging for her and the rest of the family. She wonders why all her planners and lists and things don't do it but this voice assistant does? David explains that it's because it comes to you, you don't have to go to it to get the information. Unless it exploded or fired out papers into the world, you have to attend to it to be reminded. It's a partner in executive functioning. Instead of having to outsource it to your partner so much. You can program skills, sequences of actions, routines, etc. Kids are learning a whole sequence but I don't have to teach them all the time. A lot of people ask us for parenting help, and we can talk about all the strategies to do to change behavior. The most important thing you can do is notice when they're doing something good. When it tells them to do the thing, and they do this thing, you get to come in and celebrate them and notice it. This is a big gift it has given Isabelle and her family: instead of interacting around a stress point, and we get frustrated with the system instead of with each other.  You can program it to applaud, and it has a feature where you get it to slow clap, and Isabelle names they  have a legit slow clap in the house, and the kids love it. What you're seeing is why this works, it is a legit intervention. Those kinds of systems are not always helpful for people. Isabelle learned the hard way that it was left on storytelling for too long and wild and they had to wrangle in a more soothing bedtime routine. But as David reminds us, if you're not listening to it as it reminds you, you will learn to never listen to it. Same as with a visual timer, you have to keep yourself to it, because otherwise you are learning to ignore. Isabelle has a certain feature where she has to answer a question to a reminder, the beeping doesn't go away unless you interact with it. Also, setting up timers with music, setting environmental cues through music and setting up an ambience with parts of their routine. David never uses timers, because he only uses them when it's go-time. He's a person who really values privacy. It's an emotional battle, unless you've gone through the options to change your phone settings, they are listening to it. The different options are essentially a whiteboard that speaks to you, a diary that buzzes after you, a friend that doesn't forget—you do have those resources if you don't have this device. This is also so you know you can find options that aren't digital—but be careful of overly depending on people, because dependency breeds aggression, and that is one of the things about these robot overlords, are you can be as dependent as you want on them and be as aggressive as you want to be and it doesn't hurt a person. When kids get frustrated with it, or I get frustrated with it, it's happening to an object rather than to yourself, or someone else. Isabelle casts no judgment on those who choose privacy over these devices, because she tried one out a few years back and she was very much against it, it felt creepy to her. She didn't really explore it or work with it. The thing that changed her minds was the realization of how much of the working memory and routine and reminders this offloads, the difference is it's not on her to remember. So she's like “go ahead and sell me all the dog food, because it's worth it.” David is a good person, he's not worried about the things it finds out about me…so it would sell me the fruit leather? But it might be so clever it would question if David really wants 4 cases of 500 of them. So David decides he would NEVER get one because he doesn't.What is Bluey? Isabelle notes: Brace yourself, this show is powerful and not just for kids/parents/caregivers of kids. 7 minute episodes with brilliant writing and solid visuals all teaching you how to be a human modeled by cartoon dogs. Special ND note: Many fans argue that the shows titular character is a ND tribe member (I welcome her with open arms); there is more overt mention in the episode “Army," which features a character named Jack (who continues on in the show) who many argue represents a neurodivergent kid—to watch him find connection and confidence is pretty incredible....OH THE FEELS.----Cover Art by: Sol VázquezTechnical Support by: Bobby RichardsSpecial Thanks to Bluey. Best show that sums up real life for kids (and grownups) with humor, compassion, and just plain brilliance. Watch “Flat Pack.”

Isabelle struggles with the idea of doing 'little yucks' because her to-do list is endless, she never stops, and the demands on her feel endless--how can you even think about what you need or stop to rest without feeling guilty/lost/overwhelmed with unstructured time? David counters with a behavioral truth bomb: the power of knowing your establishing operation. What levers did the environment around you press?-----Isabelle wonders whether she even knows what a little yuck is; she turns everything else in to a big yuck, or a bunch of ‘to-do's' — for David, a little yuck helps the larger household, but the timing and the coping of it is just for you. Like doing the dishes so he can prep for a speech, or laundry (even though he had just done laundry) because he wants the option to wear a certain pair of pants. The same energy level existed, it was not on today's to-do list, and he just did it to keep moving his hands. Isabelle is suffering from a blindspot here: she doesn't really permit herself to do a little yuck, then return to something you enjoy…but she doesn't have a to-do list anymore? That feels impossible, she doesn't know how to not to-do list. David describes how he doesn't have a written to-do list, it's connected to a day off physical routine and he calls a friend and then goes for it. But for his to-do list on his day off, when he didn't have a bunch of things he had to do. He held back from going off the rails and doing too much, he actually held back and stuck to his easy-level plans. Isabelle describes how she does not like to cook or bake, but if she can do it at her leisure, then she enjoys it. She embraces doing it without pressure and she doesn't feel the chore of it. But the load of things she has to do feels endless, she has never carved out the time where there is nothing for her to do…she doesn't have the experience of time where something is not expected of her, or she doesn't expect it of herself. David's boat is privileged in that he doesn't have kids and he is not a super person. He is very aware of how much time is taken from someone around childcare, he sees parents doing everything, and doing everything you need or everything your child needs, you can't really do both. The messages from society is “you're not allowed to take care of you,” or “you're supposed to take care of other people.” This feels more like a “mom” thing than a “dad” thing—but it's not accurate. When we're talking about trying to find the little yuck in Isabelle's life, the equation is different. For Isabelle, in her world, there are several agents of chaos that enter and are rerouted to priority, and there's never a moment where she can't be interrupted or distracted from whatever is happening. There isn't enough time to feel the thought “I have a lot of energy and there's nowhere for it to go.” She thinks of a meme she saw where a woman ushers her family out the door. And she finally has time to herself; does she sit and stare at a wall or does she panic clean? Isabelle really struggles with making a decision with what to do with her time when she doesn't have the constant demands, the volley of little yucks stops, but then why does she choose a little yuck? David goes really complicated, with this thing called an establishing operation.  The behavioral word for how a little rat, trained to run a maze, is rewarded by a drop of water; the rat loves the water and does lots of work for the water, but rats don't naturally love water this much. So the establishing operation is to withhold water from the rat for 24 hours first: the establishing operation changes the reinforcement of the reinforcer. So the yuck meter for Isabelle is totally blown out. So you have to take into account what is the establishing operation for her—and it might be that what do you do to make this time guilt-free or how you set it up to make it yours. What can you do so you don't feel bad for watching 3 hours when everyone gets home? That really rings a bell for Isabelle; it really connects for her around the challenge of what it means, to even sit down. She really doesn't ever sit down. She recovered from a fractured pelvis because she didn't sit enough. This means changing her relationship to resting or hitting the pause button and carving out the unique, new structure, when she is on her own, or has a lot of energy, or has the agency and privilege to exercise it. She has to change her establishing operation. David names that you have to give yourself the real reinforcement that you need, and not trick yourself into doing chores (that would normally ‘reward' you with a different set up).  Isabelle names that recent training with Hallowell and Ratey (see ADHD 2.0 book link below) is that rumination neural network in the brain is designed for creating problems, and another neural network runs when you're not doing anything, and another neural network is task positive (you're trying to do the thing). Now with neurotypical folx, you can flip a switch and go from one mode to another—you can choose! Like what a lot of therapy models use. But if you're neurodivergent, the environment is what presses the levers, otherwise they're all going at the same time. Isabelle recognized that the rumination network is always running, and how something about how she can't switch the levers has to do with the fact that her environment for rest is not different from her environment for everything else (her home). She really needs external cue to signal to her that the thing you think you're working with is different; she needs a solid external boundary to help with this. She needs to know when they take the water away. Otherwise she'll keep working and not attend to herself. And she doesn't know it changed. The rules don't work anymore, it's not “you,” —maybe it's everything else? Or is it maybelline?“Maybe she's born with it, maybe it's maybelline.” (Commercial from the 90's: brace yourselves, this is so 90's it's almost unbearable).Huberman lab episode on little yucks — he calls them “Micro sucks” DEFINITIONSBody Doubling: Someone else in the same room or within view of the person who is trying to get a task done—the other person doing the task creates the illusion of structure. In essence, a buddy is sits with you as you work on something (could be doing a task, or just quietly there, maybe giving you cues or reminders). In reference to in films, this term is used to describe a body double, or a stand in for lead actors in certain shots. Here are some basic ideas.Establishing operation (EO): Depriving or altering the access to something to make it more enticing and rewarding. The behavioral word for how a little rat, trained to run a maze, is rewarded by a drop of water, and rat loves the water and does lots of work for the water...but rats don't naturally love water this much. So the establishing operation is to withhold water from the rat for 24 hours first: the establishing operation changes the reinforcement of the water, makes it more enticing and more 'rewarding' for the rat.Reiserfeiber - “Literally translated, Reisefieber means “travel fever” – but it's not the type of sickness that keeps you ...

Isabelle and David catch up and grapple with those moments when you have a ton of energy or anxiety or excitement, and you tackle way more and up the difficulty on your video game of life, instead of going for an easy win. The way we tend to think more is better when it comes to interventions or accommodations when actually it's the little stuff. The power of the little yuck, and also the way we buy 4 cases of fruit leather and only later consider where we will store them. -----David is sharing how time doesn't make sense (5 minutes v. 299 seconds=2 different things). Isabelle names how she tries to operate this way all the time or much of the time, remembering all this Team Shiny stuff, but it really is such a hard thing to acknowledge that her working memory is as poor as it is. Whaddayamean nobody moved the keys? (except past her, who forgot she moved the keys?) She gets so angry at herself, maybe now that she knows more about ADHD/attentional variability/ND — she is kinder to herself faster, but she also gets angrier. David names that anger is a path toward adaptive humor—“are you kidding me?” Can turn into a laugh moment or it can turn into berating yourself more. David had a beautiful ADHD moment. David has a bonus at his job, and what does he do with a bonus? Is it a vacation? A box of chocolates? A piece of furniture? Video game? The rule that we have is that anything labelled like this is getting a treat. Bonus or treat yo'self. David decides he's going to get the best fruit leather than exists, and he decides to order it. First thought: This is excellent, this is funny. Second thought: I can't wait to tell everyone about this, this is so cool. Third thought: Wait a minute—how much space does this much fruit leather take up? Fourth thought: Does it go bad? Fifth thought: Does it need to be refrigerated? My cats won't get into it….What did I just do to myself? He is excited and terrified about much fruit leather. He minimizes his impulsivity. What shipping option did he pick? No idea. It doesn't say what kind of shipping. It reminds Isabelle of how fascinated she is by a ‘lifetime supply' prize of things: how much is a lifetime supply? Like a steady supply? All at once? How much did you buy exactly…are we talking, pounds? David got 4 cases, so he could pick the flavors. Isabelle-that might be an elementary school's summer camp order. She thinks you could polish this off, using her kids as a baseline. Will he keep enjoying fruit leather 100 fruit leathers in? David knows that we don't enjoy the next bite as much as the first, it does wear off. He's not going to Golem them, he's going to share the fruit leathers. The last time he had this thought, it happened with Jordan almonds. But they also break people's teeth and not everyone likes them. Isabelle is delighted because every Polish baby shower and wedding shower, and it was just little baggies of them.  Isabelle throws in three fun food facts: frying food is originally to preserve the food without the refrigeration, so fried food, it keeps longer. When you coat something in sugar, or in a salt, it keeps longer. Isabelle also thinks about learning what is the first thing to put on a cut? David responds…not hydrogen peroxide or alcohol, and Isabelle learned that doing that messes with the skin barrier because you scrub away all the good stuff, its then more likely to get infected. Which is shocking, because you'd think more is better. David *names that that's why soap works: it's the bubbles! And the friction! That makes soap work. THIS MORE IS BETTER is something we see in clinical work all the time. People throw in so many ADHD interventions, and it fails, and actually…less is more. Like simple things, like where you put your phone at night. Isabelle's metaphor of late is the idea that we often do all or nothing, but we get bored with playing the video game at easy, and instead of upping the difficulty to medium, we think we have to make it extremely hard, and then you die right away, and you get extremely frustrated and then you quit the game. Here's Isabelle's boring task: she needs to go through the kids clothes. What does she do, she then signs up for three consignment sales and figure out delivery dates, and then it raises the anti, and it makes her feel like she's doing something, but she overwhelms her stimulus load, and then passes her sweet spot so darn fast. David names that easy level on this game is just collecting clothes and putting them in one spot. Medium is putting them into a sort. And super hard level is taking them there and not having them in their house. David notices that people don't even see the easy options. And then Isabelle also opened three other games, to play at the same time. The more games we're playing, the harder it is to get into a rhythm. All the interventions he knows are habits and rhythms. David doesn't really know how to distinguish anxiety or excitement, he's getting all excited for a party, and the settings all got to difficult. There was no easy option; everything started on difficult. Only parallel is like when you're about to go to Disney World, everything is set to excited and anxious and difficult. And so he just started doing easy wins; normally he takes that energy and just does way too much. So he did a lot of small little things, he listened to a book and did the dishes. The weirdest thing is he actually thought he could do this, and have all this stuff get done. Part of him was surrendering to an easy mode; he didn't think of all the things he could accomplish, but rather…what to do with this energy so future Dave will not be mad at him. Isabelle very slowly processes this. Is it like having a big to do list, but actually those things are very difficult things, very little movement, lots of executive functioning. But the awareness of “I have a ton of energy,” the practice of where is your thermostat is living; feels difficult anyway, and then where can I put this so future me is not mad at me, is like body doubling yourself. Both Isabelle and David geek out about Huberman Lab and wanting to hang out with Andrew Huberman in an encapsulated experience, how important it is for our brains to experience little yucks. Doing little sucky things throughout the day creates more good things in a day. The variation of experiences is what helps you feel good, feel the peaks of goodness. Imagine doing exactly what you want to do for 10 hours, Isabelle feels like a piece of poop—but you were getting what you wanted, but instead there's the sneaking suspicion of impending guilt, or this isn't how it goes in this game of life. We need the variation in order to actually feel the highs. Like imagine you took breaks and did little yucks throughout the day, and then return to your phone, you have a better day. If you have anxious or excited energy, what are the little yucks I can do with this energy while I am self-medicated (through the anxiety and excitement to do so)? Isabelle thinks about “reiserfieber”, which is a German term for exactly how you feel before a big trip. This is how Isabelle functions this way during nap time, it's the little yucks. Or the contrast of dropping the kids off at school after 6 snow days; the contrast is what makes you appreciate things. Also pandemic shut down flashbacks. But no, David names, that's a big yuck. This is actually about little yucsk. It's something that's small and not future-oriented, just asking yourself: I have energy and 10 minutes…what's a little yuck I can do? And keep it easy. On purpose.

In a panel recorded live in front of an audience at the 2023 Eye to Eye National Friends and Allies conference, David and Isabelle sit down with Eye to Eye co-founders David Flink and Marcus Soutra, Eye to Eye student leader Kayla and an Eye to Eye student leader's parent Claudia to discuss what it is like to be neurodivergent—or a parent to a neurodivergent kid—across different generations. Part three of three. To learn more about Eye to Eye, visit www.eyetoeyenational.org In this part, we cover the everyone's favorite accommodations, how to confront stigma, and what everyone would say to their littler selves. ——David (Kessler) asks: what are everyone's favorite accommodations? For Marcus, who was stuck carrying a giant suitcase to listen to audiotapes, audiobooks were originally not his favorite. He'd get the material two weeks after everyone else and it made him stand out in a way he didn't like and kept it secret. Then he was working with a 10 year old kid through Eye to Eye, and the kid made a mold of his ear for an art project, saying that he doesn't read with his eyes, he reads with his ears. Now he listens to every email he receives and sends, it's how he reads; thanks to resources like Audible.com, it's everywhere. It's not just about the perception of the tool, it's about the availability of the tool. If he could travel back in time to speak to a younger version of himself, because Kessler has a button he can press to make this happen, but only for a short time, Marcus would tell himself that “you're not broken. The system is.” (Pause for applause). Isabelle wonders if there could be a time travel sound effect and after Flink suggests a Chewbacca noise, Kessler obliges. Claudia's favorite accommodation is asking students what they need, and listening to them about what type of structure they like. Some like more, some less, some need a quiet room, some need to get up and walk around. David asks, is this essentially giving students the agency back? She agrees. And if she could go back in time, she would tell herself “Everything is going to be okay.” (Pause for snaps galore). After a tough rock-paper-scissors round, Kayla goes next. Kayla's favorite accommodation is speech-to-text, she'll step out of the classroom and talk it into her phone. Going back in time, she would tell herself “don't listen to everything your peers tell you.” (Pause for snaps). Often the hurtful words don't have anything to do with you, they have to do with what's going on for them, like a kid who came up to her after saying something hurtful confessing that he was just hiding his own dyslexia. The second thing she would say is “Do you. Don't think about the way people look at you because of the accommodations you use, or the things you need to do, because at the end of the day, it's all about making an even playing field.” Her getting extra time on a test is to level the playing field. Flink goes next and shares his least favorite accommodation was getting extra time on tests, because it was him still having to do a test poorly designed for him. As an adult, it's his favorite accommodation, because he now sees it as kindness to have extra time for how he learns and thinks. If he had a time machine, he'd tell himself: “look, you're going to have to have a strong backbone, but keep your wishbone strong, too.” Isabelle just asks, before we ask questions, that we close the time travel loops and return to the present moment. (Cue Chewbacca noise and a small disagreement about whether Star Wars technically involves time travel). Now it's time for questions from the audience, the first one being: How is everyone doing? Everyone is doing well, considering they just shared something so vulnerable in front of hundreds of people. Another audience member asks: How can we educate ALL our students? How can we set it up so that we don't feel stupid or incapable? Kayla starts: building communities, like with Eye to Eye, where there is a place where you have allies and you can see people going on to do great things, like Kayla witnesses when attending the Eye to Eye conference. Claudia names that schools and teacher trainings are underfunded, and they want to learn more and be better equipped but they're not able to afford those trainings. She also wishes for students with single parents and those who don't have the means to get access to resources and supports, too. David names that teachers are absolutely amazing and are doing the impossible. We are working with antiquated education system; we have phones that can look up data but we still get graded on memory, v. The questions we ask; teachers get punished if students don't fit the mold and don't perform well, but the mold itself is out of date. What about noticing the complexity of the questions students ask, rather than what they know? Marcus wonders why did it take us so long to embrace technology? One of the things he was always told was, “Marcus, you're not going to have a calculator everywhere you go.” Everyone freaks out. David was told “you're not going to have spellcheck everywhere you go…” Marcus wonders at the teachers who scorn their student's use of AI, but then they go home and use it to make their lesson plans…it's odd to see this kind of resistance always, to new technology. He references that when ink pens first came out, there was pushback that quill pens are how you should write.  There was a time period in this country when left-handedness was illegal. When left-handedness was made legal, there were skyrocketing rates of left handedness, then it plateaued. He suspects we're in a similar situation with neurodiversity, where “every single kid is being labeled with LD” and that's not true, it's more than we're learning more about the brain every single day, we're decreasing the stigma as we go. Kessler wonders: who wouldn't benefit from an individualized education plan? And from desegregation of classrooms? Having different people of different abilities doing the work, together? Flink wants to add that yes, culture change, yes to funding, but what do we do right now? Tomorrow? We are a people-powered movement and country, we can create the change we wish to see by sharing our stories and advocating for ourselves. Chloe asks: how do you combat the stigma around LD and ND within yourself, and how does it work when you're a part of the education system and an educator? Kessler wonders in general how to address stigma—Claudia responds that as someone who identifies as neurotypical, she tries to build relationships and share her story. Kayla describes going above and beyond; she remembers how her case manager, who was in charge of her IEP, thought she should stick to a trade school and work with agriculture. Kayla's family responded that this didn't track with Kayla's interests; the case manager responded with “you better get used to it, because that's going to be the only thing she can do;” Kayla's grandmother was LIVID, she doesn't take anything from anybody, she told her off, she got Kayla a new case manager, she found tutor after tutor until something clicked. Kessler names how hard Kayla had to work to see a future for herself. David tackles the stigma question himself, with all of his vulnerabilities up. He has a therapist: not because he is broken, or deficient, but so that he doesn't feel things alone. There is a shadow side to stigma: anyt...

In this episode, host Colin Mitchell interviews Elizabeth Frederick, the host of Let's Talk Sales podcast and the president and CEO of Collavia. They discuss the concept of setting "stupid goals" and how to avoid them. Elizabeth breaks down the acronym SMART (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, Time-bound) and introduces her own acronym, STUPID (Shoulds, Tasks, Unaligned, Procrastination, Inattentive, Disconnected), to help people set more effective goals. They emphasize the importance of aligning goals with individual skills and interests, breaking goals down into actionable tasks, adapting to changing situations, and connecting goals with calendars and task lists.Follow the Host:Collin Mitchell (Partner, Leadium)Our Episode Guest:Elizabeth Frederick (President and CEO, Collavia)Sponsored By:Leadium | The leader in outbound sales appointment setting*If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have any questions, email us at guest@salestransformation.co - Just tell us why you're reaching out and we'll contact you as soon as we can!

October is ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) Awareness Month. SelfWork has never focused on this very difficult disorder, often affecting children who are what's now called "neurodivergent" but in the past, have been unjustly stigmatized as "lazy, stupid, or crazy" which was finally described in 2006 for the actual processing difference it is in the now classic book, You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy?. But ADHD contains hyperactivity as a symptom of the disorder; what used to be called ADD, or simple attention deficit disorder, is now labeled as inattentive ADHD. And these kids (and adults) often slip through the cracks of adult recognition, because they're seen more as daydreamers, or unmotivated, not causing the classroom behavioral problems that hyperactive kids can seem to create. But they still can truly struggle and... go unseen. Cynthia Hammer has a new book, Living with Inattentive ADHD:  Climbing the Circular Staircase of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, where she offers her own hard-earned wisdom of living with IADHD. I found the book at times chilling because of the dangers she could put herself in, poignant as she lives through tremendous sorrow of the accidental death of her first child, and hopeful, as - at almost age 80 - she shares what she's learned about surviving and thriving. Advertiser's Link:  We welcome back BiOptimizers and Magnesium Breakthrough as a returning sponsor to SelfWork and they have a new offer! Just click here! Make sure you use the code “selfwork10” to check out free product! You can hear more about this and many other topics by listening to my podcast, SelfWork with Dr. Margaret Rutherford. Subscribe to my website and receive my weekly newsletter including a blog post and podcast! If you'd like to join my FaceBook closed group, then click here and answer the membership questions! Welcome! My book entitled Perfectly Hidden Depression is available here! Its message is specifically for those with a struggle with strong perfectionism which acts to mask underlying emotional pain. But the many self-help techniques described can be used by everyone who chooses to begin to address emotions long hidden away that are clouding and sabotaging your current life. And there's another way to send me a message! You can record by clicking below and ask your question or make a comment. You'll have 90 seconds to do so and that time goes quickly. By recording, you're giving SelfWork (and me) permission to use your voice on the podcast. I'll look forward to hearing from you!