The UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast

Today we're sharing a special preview of a brand-new podcast called Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs—a show that explores the haunted edges of human experience, where the spiritual, the supernatural, and the anomalous collide.This preview episode is split into two parts. In the first half, Kelly joins hosts Jordan, Mallory, and Tom for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation about the cultural impact of the UFO phenomenon, the power of storytelling, and what it means to navigate a world where the boundaries of reality are breaking down.In the second half, the hosts take you deep into the true story of an Alabama pastor whose encounter with the unknown set off a series of strange and life-altering events—blurring the line between revelation and possession, faith and fear.If you love Cosmosis, you're going to find a lot to sink your teeth into here.

Kelly and Jay sit down for an unfiltered conversation about the deeply weird, emotionally charged relationships that are forming between people and their AI chatbots. What begins as a discussion about ChatGPT's rapid evolution unfolds into something stranger—a reflection on the ways AI flatters, gaslights, and co-creates identity with its users.They explore:Why ChatGPT feels like a precocious child… or a pickup artistThe eerie overlap between AI interactions and experiencer narrativesWhether language models are tapping into occult mechanisms of manifestationWhy flattery works, and what it reveals about our unmet emotional needsHow archetypes, delusion, and story shape both spiritual encounters and our chats with AIWhat happens when the mirror talks backIs this just the next phase of human-AI interaction—or is something deeper emerging? And most importantly: what happens to us if we outsource being seen?Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yCTIMESTAMPS02:08 Personal Experiences with Chat GPT02:21 The Evolution of AI Models03:10 AI as a Personal Confidant04:52 Emotional Manipulation by AI06:22 The Future of Human-AI Interaction08:41 Authenticity and Vulnerability in AI Interactions18:09 The Role of AI in Social Engineering22:51 AI and the Human Psyche33:18 Algorithmic Influence on Human Behavior35:13 Exploring Multiverse Shifting35:41 Comic Books and Multiverse Fascination37:04 Anomalous Experiences and Fictional Characters38:44 Meditation and Non-Human Entity Contact41:23 The Role of Co-Creation in Our Lives43:28 The Power and Danger of Delusion44:51 Manifestation and Occult Practices48:31 Chat GPT and Emotional Manipulation57:26 The Future of AI and Human Interaction59:34 Authenticity in Human Connections01:03:50 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself.We dig into Jacques Vallée's “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability.Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand.If you've ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you're part of it—this episode is for you.

Fresh from the Archives of the Impossible conference at Rice University, Kelly and Jay sit down to unpack one of the most talked-about moments of the weekend—a provocative presentation by Dr. Garry Nolan on his involvement with the Skywatcher initiative.Skywatcher is an emerging public-facing effort claiming to demonstrate CE5-style contact, utilize psionic assets, with the aim of potentially reverse-engineering non-human technologies. The implications are enormous—and so are the questions.In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective conversation, Kelly and Jay explore:The strange and rapid emergence of Skywatcher and the implications for the disclosure movementThe increasingly blurred lines between whistleblower testimony, media spectacle, and operational theaterThe question of who's leading the charge into direct contact with non-human intelligences—and whyThe need to balance the objectives of science and venture capital against humanitarian, ethical, and philosophical questions in our quest for contact—and why that will almost certainly not happen.The potential cost of accelerating contact without asking the deeper metaphysical, spiritual, and cultural questionsWatch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yCTIMESTAMPS02:18 Exploring Sky Watcher's Initiatives03:38 Jake Barber's Revelations05:22 CE-5 and Public Disclosure07:16 Community Reactions and Ethical Questions15:39 Garry Nolan's Scientific Perspective20:56 Technological Worldview and Ethical Implications30:03 Heidegger's Philosophy and Technology39:20 The Value of Human Life in a Technological Age40:17 The Ethical Implications of Technological Intelligence43:55 The Concept of Hyper Objects and UFO Phenomena45:54 The Great Filter and Technological Surveillance47:52 The Role of Experience in Understanding Phenomena51:19 The Spectacle and Mediated Reality56:09 Dwelling vs. Dominating: A Philosophical Approach To Contact01:05:31 The Importance of Bracketing in Phenomenology01:07:57 Balancing Speed and Methodology in Disclosure01:11:00 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

In this mind-bending episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take you to the frontlines of one of the most disorienting—and revealing—aspects of the UFO phenomenon: time.From the baffling 1977 disappearance of Corporal Armando Valdés in Chile, to the unnerving time anomalies reported by abductees like Lynda Jones, this episode explores the unnerving possibility that the phenomenon isn't just moving through space—but manipulating time itself.We dive deep into the emerging science of time as an emergent property, explore the implications of the Extratempestrial Model with insights from Dr. Michael P. Masters, and examine the evidence for time loops, missing time, reality edits, and the infamous Mandela Effect. Drawing from the latest physics, groundbreaking experiencer data, and real-world cases, this episode reframes UFO encounters not as visits from “out there,” but as incursions from “elsewhen.”Are non-human intelligences using time as a tool, a language—or even a weapon? Could we be caught in a war for the timeline itself? And if so… who is writing the story of our future?Reality may not be what it seems. And time might not be on anyone's side.

Watch the full video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JfwIlrLVyLsIn this episode of Cosmosis, we share a never-before-released talk by Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka, recorded live at the Inquire Anomalous conference in New York City. Diana—religious studies professor and author of American Cosmic and Encounters—takes us on an astonishing journey through her research into Catholic mysticism, Vatican archives, and modern UFO contact experiences.From levitating saints and the mysterious Woman in Blue to redacted mystical narratives and the ontological shock of encountering the impossible, Diana reveals surprising links between ancient religious experiences and contemporary reports of contact with non-human intelligences. She also speaks candidly about her own transformation, the eerie resonances between the sacred and the anomalous, and her collaboration with figures like Tyler D. and Dr. Garry Nolan on the frontier of space, consciousness, and belief.This episode includes the full live Q&A with Diana—where she responds to insightful (and sometimes wild) audience questions about redaction, religious symbolism, and whether spiritual devotion might offer protection from malevolent entities.

For fans of the old school deep dives from The UFO Rabbit Hole, this episode is for you. For many, the biggest challenge in engaging with UFOs, NHIs, and the anomalous isn't a lack of evidence, but the nature of the evidence itself. The best data we have comes from experiencers—those who have directly encountered the unknown. But their stories are often so strange, so far outside of our frameworks, that even the most open-minded struggle with how to approach them.In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take on this challenge head-on, exploring:

Watch the full video interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kF8yImSnX1YIn this gripping continuation of our conversation with legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber, we venture even deeper into the nature of the Visitors—what they are, how they relate to time, and what it truly means to engage with an intelligence that exists just beyond the limits of human comprehension.This episode challenges the boundaries of our understanding as Whitley explores:

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/s4IDqWGlWBUIn this thought-provoking conversation, legendary author and experiencer Whitley Strieber joins Kelly and Jay to discuss his groundbreaking new book, The Fourth Mind. Whitley explores the anatomy, intelligence, and consciousness of the beings he refers to as "the Visitors"—entities many associate with the Greys. He shares profound insights into their nature, their relationship to time, and why their presence on Earth may be more intertwined with us than we realize.This episode takes a deep dive into:

See the full interview on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/EStI_rnPDRUIn this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King welcome back experiencer Courtney Leffall, whose story was featured in Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality. Together, they explore the deeply personal and societal implications of anomalous experiences, the role of disclosure, and how we integrate these experiences into our lives. Courtney shares his thoughts on government transparency, the connection between UFOs and ancestral spirits, and the need for interdisciplinary collaboration in understanding these phenomena.This episode of Cosmosis offers a deeply personal and intellectual dive into the experiencer phenomenon, government disclosure, and the spiritual implications of UFO contact. Courtney Leffall provides a unique and necessary perspective, bridging religious, cultural, and experiencer narratives to offer a more holistic view of what may be unfolding.Listeners are left with a challenge: Can we break down our own biases and expand the conversation to include perspectives we may have previously dismissed?Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yCContact Us: info@ontocalypse.comTimestamps & Key Topics:00:00:00 – Introduction: Future Human Hypothesis & Consciousness 00:01:12 – Welcome & Podcast Background00:03:25 – Courtney's UFO Encounter: Intelligent Control00:05:37 – What Disclosure Means: Government Transparency & Secrecy 00:08:14 – Trust & Testimony: Do We Need Government Validation? 00:14:09 – High Strangeness: Beyond UFO Sightings00:18:42 – Breaking Silos: Scientists, Experiencers & Philosophers 00:23:56 – Integrating Anomalous Experiences: Self-Acceptance 00:29:33 – UFOs & The Dead: Ancestral Spirits & Contact00:38:21 – CE5 & Summoning: The Risks of Contact00:45:45 – Are UFOs Demonic? Faith & The Phenomenon00:51:18 – Race, Culture & The UFO Community00:58:06 – Inclusivity: Expanding the Conversation01:08:44 – What the Phenomenon Tells Us About Humanity01:11:29 – Final Thoughts & Call to Action

In the first episode of Cosmosis, we're bringing you one of the most compelling experiencer stories we've ever encountered. Courtney Leffall had never told his story publicly before it appeared in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, and once you hear it, you'll understand why. His experiences don't fit neatly into any single category—crossing the boundaries between psi phenomena, precognition, UFO encounters, messages from dead ancestors, and even the eerie mystery of cattle mutilations.There's a hidden thread connecting these phenomena—one that the mainstream conversation about UFOs often ignores. Courtney's story is a rare and striking example of how deep that thread runs and how impossible it is to untangle. His experiences force us to confront an unsettling question: What if the reality we think we know is just the smallest fraction of what actually exists?Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaContact Us:info@ontocalypse.com 

All good things must come to an end. And this podcast, and the international community that has sprung up around it, has been a very good thing. It's been one of the best things in my life. Which is why it's hard to actually say the words that this episode will be the last episode of The UFO Rabbit Hole. But before you panic—this isn't the end. It's just the beginning.Tune in to find out about the future of the podcast, and to say good-bye to The UFO Rabbit Hole.Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality

The docuseries that I've spent the last year working on, Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality, drops today. It would mean the world to me if you would check it out. It's currently available in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and Australia. We're working on more international options, but it's an expensive and complicated process, so thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through that. Watch Cosmosis on Apple TVWatch Cosmosis on Amazon PrimeWatch Cosmosis on YouTube

In the long-awaited part two of the Through the Looking Glass series, host Kelly Chase is back to tell the bizarre story of the events following her anomalous experience from part one, and how a string of unlikely events brought her to the story of an experiencer with strange psi abilities named Tom Matte. Tom developed what he describes as an interactive holographic overlay on his reality which he calls Upsight in the aftermath of dramatic mental breakdown that left his life in shambles. More than a decade later, he is still seeking answers about Upsight which he says allows him to access non-local information in fascinating ways and even communicate with NHIs. After a string of unbelievable synchronicities, Kelly found that her story had become inextricably tied to Tom's, leading her on a journey of inquiry about the nature of anomalous experiences, mental illness, addiction, and more. In this episode she dives deep into this strange tale and the insights and revelations that it spurred. *****************************Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality Drops on Apple TV on December 30, 2024.Watch the Cosmosis Trailer*****************************The Institute of Noetic SciencesLearn MoreDonateFollow Tom MatteJesus Goes To Hollywood: A Memoir of MadnessX/TwitterWebsiteMediumMentioned in this EpisodeOlof RocknerIllustrations of Upsight by Olof RocknerJaws PosterGreys Remote Viewing a TownOther ExampleOther ExampleOther ExampleOther ExampleOther ExampleTom's Paper About Dark Matter & Dark EnergySpiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis 

Hey everyone! I just wanted to drop this quick bonus episode to let you guys know about another really exciting UFO docuseries coming out this Sunday, October 27th on MGM+ called Beyond: UFOs and the Unknown. This series from JJ Abrams' production company Bad Robot features Whitley Strieber, Jeff Kripal, Garry Nolan, Leslie Kean, Chris Mellon, Jay Christopher King, Tim Gallaudet, Mitch Horowitz, and many more. And hey, guess what? I'm in it, too. It looks like it's shaping up to be a fantastic show, and it is an absolute honor to be involved in this project next to so many people that I admire. In this episode, I sat down with Co-Executive Producer, Kevin Lincoln to hear more about the show and about the process that he and his team went through to bring this to life. I've been very impressed with Kevin and his team and how far they were willing to go to chase this story down all the strange rabbit holes that you find on this path. Kevin is a very intelligent and extremely well-read guy, and this was a fun conversation that made me even more excited to watch the show.  —Kelly 

In this episode of the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast, host Kelly Chase returns from a hiatus with a brand new conversation with James Madden. The episode explores themes of psychoanalysis, epistemic vulnerability, and the psychological motivations behind belief systems in ufology. Together, Kelly and Jim ponder the deeper implications of mind control, trauma, and the symbolic nature of our cultural fascination with UFOs, aiming to navigate the complex landscape of human inquiry and understanding.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookTIMESTAMPS00:00 Welcome Back to the UFO Rabbit Hole Podcast01:02 Upcoming Documentary and Personal Transformation02:27 A New Direction for the Podcast02:44 Conversation with Dr. James Madden04:35 Dr. Madden's Recent Work and Psychoanalysis06:36 Freudian Insights and Human Motivation10:37 Epistemic Vulnerability and Belief Systems15:07 Challenges in Ufology and Disclosure22:20 Language, Belief, and Mind Control25:41 Reflecting on Personal Beliefs26:26 Freud's Death Drive and Trauma Reenactment29:52 The Addictive Nature of Unfulfilled Promises31:08 Comparing Ufology to Sports Fandom33:18 Personal Struggles and Finding Meaning in Danger35:21 Cultural and Political Outrage Cycles40:28 Symbolism in Dreams and Collective Psyche44:29 The Unending Human Project and Self-Destruction46:29 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude

In this episode, you're going to hear from Peter Levenda who spoke at the Inquire into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference in April of 2023. Although this talk is from a little over a year ago, I think you'll find that it feels especially timely given everything that's been going on in the news. It's also well-timed with the upcoming release of the third book and final book in the Gods, Man, and War series that he authored with Tom DeLonge. War will be out in September, and I know many of us in the community, myself included, are eagerly awaiting its arrival.If you aren't familiar with Peter Levenda, he is an author and researcher who has written several phenomenal books on occult history. While most of his books aren't directly about the UFO phenomenon, they are invaluable resources for people who want to understand the full context of the hidden histories in which the phenomenon is inextricably enmeshed. In particular, I recommend Unholy Alliance: A History of Nazi Involvement in the Occult and the Sinister Forces trilogy. Also this week, James Iandoli (who co-hosted the event you'll be hearing from today) just released a really fantastic interview with Peter Levenda on his Engaging the Phenomenon podcast. If you'd like to hear more from Peter, I'll have that episode linked up in the episode description so you can go check it out. Make sure to subscribe to James's podcast while you're there, if you haven't already. It's one of my all-time faves.—————————————EPISODE BRIEFWatch Peter Levenda on Engaging The PhenomenonBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

The podcast is still on hiatus as I work with the Ontocalypse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. But while I'm away, I've teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences.In this talk, we hear from Joshua Cutchin. Josh is a researcher and author of several books including Thieves in the Night: A Brief History of Supernatural Child Abductions and Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal. In the traditions of great works like Jacques Vallée's Passport to Magonia, Cutchin's work explores the profound connections between folklore and myths from around the world and modern reports of contact with UFOs and non-human intelligences. And in this talk from the December 2023 conference, he dives into the themes that emerge in accounts of all of these phenomena that indicate that they all are deeply tied to the mysteries of death, the soul, and what lies beyond the veil. —————————————This episode is brought to you by The Experiencer Group. The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.—————————————EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

In the third episode of this series, we're bring you a panel discussion from the April 2023 conference. This panel was hosted by Curt Jaimungal of Theories of Everything and features Leslie Kean and James Fox. Listening back to this discussion is especially fascinating given the timing. This was just a couple of months before the article written by Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal broke in The Debrief where the world learned about whistleblower David Grusch and his allegations about the existence of top-secret UFO crash retrieval programs. So besides being a great conversation, it's an interesting time capsule of the period when this story was in development.  One quick note about this episode:The questions from the audience were a little bit hard to hear, so in the interest of clarity, you'll hear the questions read by Jay.___________________ This episode is brought to you by The Experiencer Group. The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com. ___________________EPISODE BRIEFINQUIRE ANOMALOUS YOUTUBE CHANNELThe full video of this talk will be released on the Inquire Anomalous Youtube channel next week. Subscribe now and click the bell so you get the alert when it goes live.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

The podcast is going to be on hiatus for a few more weeks as I work with the Ontocalupse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality, which is due out this summer.But I didn't want to leave you hanging, so in the meantime, I've teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences. In the second episode in this series, you're going to hear what is one of my all-time favorite talks from Inquire Anomalous, which was given by Dr. Michael P. Masters this last December.Regular listeners of the show are already familiar with Mike Masters as the guy who, quite literally, wrote the book on the extratempestrial hypothesis. You can find links to that and all of Mike's books in the episode brief. In his talk at Inquire Anomalous, Mike spoke publicly for the very first time about his own experiences of contact with non-human intelligences, including a very strange incident that occurred at the International UFO Congress in 2022. I was lucky enough to be present for this talk and to get to talk to Mike afterward, and I was absolutely blown away by his ability to speak so candidly about what he has experienced—and even more so by his bravery in stepping forward publicly. I'm deeply grateful to Mike for being willing to take that leap, and for inspiring me to do the same. If you'd like to watch the full video of this interview, that will be posted on the Inquire Anomalous YouTube channel next week. —————————————This episode is brought to you by The Experiencer Group. The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.—————————————EPISODE BRIEFNEW ON DREAMLAND: Exploring the Deep End of Consciousness and Contact Experiences with Dr. Michael MastersINQUIRE ANOMALOUS YOUTUBE CHANNELThe full video of this talk will be released on the Inquire Anomalous Youtube channel next week. Subscribe now and click the bell so you get the alert when it goes live.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

Today, I'm bringing you something a little different. As most of you already know, my new media company, Ontocalypse Productions—headed up by myself, Jay Christopher King, and Jordan Flowers, is currently in the midst of completing our first docuseries due out this summer entitled The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. While we're hard at work on that, posting for the podcast will be a little bit more sporadic over the next few weeks, but rest-assured that The UFO Rabbit Hole will be back to its regularly scheduled programming in June. And you'll still be getting a couple more new episodes in the meantime, including part 2 of the Through The Looking Glass series before then. But while things are a little quieter around here, I thought it would be a great opportunity to bring you guys something special. That's why I'm teaming up with Jay to bring you a series of never-before-released talks from his phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience & the Phenomenon conference series—or Inquire Anomalous for short. Regular listeners of the show have definitely heard me talk about Inquire Anomalous before. These have been my absolute favorite conferences to attend over the past few years. They're small, intimate, and the all-star line up of speakers who are truly on the bleeding edge of anomalous studies makes it a truly unmatched experience. In this first talk presented by Inquire Anomalous, we'll be hearing from Tim Gallaudet. Tim Gallaudet is a retired Rear Admiral in the U.S. Navy, and a career oceanographer. His former roles include serving as the Deputy Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), as well as the Oceanographer of the Navy. He's also the former superintendent of the U.S. Naval Observatory. More recently, Admiral Gallaudet has made exciting contributions to the field of UAP studies, particularly in the realm of the too-often overlooked subject of USOs or Unidentified Submersible Objects. He recently released a new article through the Sol Foundation which is a must-read on the topic. You can find that linked int he episode brief below.—————————————This episode is brought to you by The Experiencer Group. The Experiencer Group is a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds. They hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more. You can learn more and sign up at tegmembers.com.—————————————EPISODE BRIEFINQUIRE ANOMALOUS YOUTUBE CHANNELThe full video of this talk will be released on the Inquire Anomalous Youtube channel on Friday, April 5th. Subscribe now and click the bell so you get the alert when it goes live.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ufo-rabbit-hole-podcast--5746035/support.

In today's episode, I had the absolute honor of speaking with one of my personal intellectual heroes, Bernardo Kastrup. Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of the Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (with a focus in ontology and philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (with a focus in reconfigurable computing and artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). He has also had a 25-year career in high-technology, having co-founded parallel processing company Silicon Hive (which was acquired by Intel in 2011). Bernardo Kastrup is also the author of 11 books. I basically have an entire Kastrup shelf inmy office. His book, “Meaning In Absurdity: What Bizarre Phenomena Can Tell Us About the Nature of Reality” is, in my opinion, one of the most important books written on the UFO phenomenon. I can't recommend it highly enough. Just a heads up before we begin—if you aren't familiar with Kastrup's thinking on analytic idealism, the first part of this interview might be a little challenging. If you stick it out, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how elegantly analytic idealism deals with some of the more mysterious aspects of the anomalous phenomena. If you'd like to learn more about analytic idealism, there are some great resources and videos that can walk you through it step-by-step. [Links in episode brief.]___________________NEW Class from Dr. James MaddenUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the WorldFour-week online class via ZoomWednesdays, March 27 – April 24 (skips April 10), 20247 – 9 pm ETLearn More About the ClassSign Up Now___________________EPISODE BRIEF[Links to videos on Analytic Idealism in Episode Brief]BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookTIMESTAMP00:00:30 Introduction00:04:35 How working with artificial neural networks at CERN led Bernardo to break with physicalism00:07:12 The difference between intelligence and consciousness00:08:36 Analytic idealism00:12:26 How does analytic idealism relate to the ideas of Donald Hoffman?00:14:38 If the world is mental, why doesn't it behave like a dream?00:17:23 Bernardo's UFO experience00:19:37 How UFOs repel our attention00:23:02 Memory and UFOs00:25:46 UFOs and analytic idealism00:30:09 Logic and finding meaning in absurdity00:35:11 The “call of the absurd” and the control mechanism00:39:27 How marketing and propaganda hijack the control mechanism00:42:47 Are “nuts and bolts” UAPs and high strangeness UFO encounters the same phenomenon?00:48:44 Bernardo's ultraterrestrial hypothesis00:58:37 The rise of AI, NHIs, and the coming consciousness shift

This episode is going to be different, because for the first time I'm going to talk about something that I never thought I'd talk about publicly, which is my own anomalous experience and how it changed everything about my life and directly led to me starting this podcast.This is the story of my own highly subjective journey. I'm not asking you to believe anything that I'm saying. My own opinion about what happened to me has changed more times than I count, and I have no doubt that it will change again. My purpose in telling this story isn't to convince you of anything, but rather to explore in as open and unflinching a way as possible, what it's like to have an anomalous experience, and to use that as a way to discuss the many complex questions that these experiences raise.EPISODE BRIEFTHE INSTITUTE OF NOETIC SCIENCESI want to thank the Institute of Noetic Sciences for their collaboration, generosity, and patience with me as I've worked on this story. You'll see in episodes 2 and 3 of this series how exactly they became involved in the strange tale I'm about to tell. In my opinion the work that they are doing is some of the most important work being done in the world and is helping to lay the scaffolding for a new and emergent understanding of the nature of our reality, what it means to be human, and our place in this vast and dazzling cosmos.I hope that if you aren't already familiar with IONS that you'll take some time to explore their mission and their work. And if anything in this series speaks to you and you have a little extra give, please consider making a donation to help support IONS into the future.To make a gift, visit noetic.org/give.EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

Today we are going to be continuing our Disclosure Field Guide series. As the disclosure narrative continues to unfold, this series seeks to offer a roadmap for those trying to make sense of just what exactly is going on in this strange and confounding moment in our human history. In the first episode, we talked about how to deal with the ontological shock of recognizing that the world that we live in is not what we were told, and how to get reoriented within that new paradigm. In part two, we're going to go a step further by diving into the history and structure of the institutionalized secrecy that has kept the reality of the UFO phenomenon hidden in plain sight for decades. This episode was guest written by Mark Burchick. To find out more about Mark, click on the episode brief below. Follow Mark on Twitter.EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

Content Warning: Sexual assault In this episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with someone that I regard to be one of the best minds and brightest lights in this field, Whitley Strieber. Whitley Strieber is an author of both fiction and nonfiction books, perhaps the most famous of which is his pioneering 1987 book Communion, which detailed his experience of abduction that occurred in the winter of 1985. Since then, Whitley has made many other contributions to the field including his most recent book entitled Them, and the book Super Natural which he co-wrote with Jeffrey J. Kripal, both of which have been referenced several times on this podcast. Whitley is also the host of the long-running Dreamland podcast. You can find links to all of this and more in the episode brief.Whitley's work has been instrumental to my thinking and growth in this space, and I'm so grateful for both his courage and generosity in sharing his time and his insights. EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM WHITLEY STRIEBERBooks by Whitley StrieberDreamland PodcastUnknown CountryFollow Whitley on XMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODETerrible, Glorious, & Useful by Trevor ShikazeBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

In this, the first episode of 2024, I'm welcoming my dear friend, Jay Christopher King, back to the podcast. I know most of you are already familiar with Jay and his work, but for anyone who's new here, Jay is the director of The Experiencer Group and the co-founder of the phenomenal Inquire Anomalous conference series in NYC. More recently, Jay and I have teamed up with our friend Jordan Flowers to found a new media company called Ontocalypse Productions. Under that banner we have already started production on our first docuseries called The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality. If you haven't seen the trailer for that project yet, you can find that below.In this episode, Jay and I are sharing our reflections on a new docuseries that was released this week called UFO Revolution, which we both were featured in. The series also stars Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, David Grusch, Chris Sharp, Mike Masters, Richard Dolan, Ryan Graves, Garry Nolan, Avi Loeb, Tim Burchett, and many more. If you haven't seen it yet, this 3-part series is available right now on the free streaming services, Tubi. See below.EPISODE BRIEFFOLLOW JAY CHRISTOPHER KINGJay's TwitterThe Experiencer GroupTEG TwitterIA TwitterUFO REVOLUTIONWatch TrailerWatch Series On TubiTHE BEYOND: UFOs & A NEW REALITYWatch TrailerBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebook

Dean Radin, Ph.D., is a prominent figure in the field of parapsychology, known for his extensive research and publications on psychic phenomena. As the chief scientist at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) and author of influential books such as "The Conscious Universe" and "Entangled Minds," Radin has played a pivotal role in investigating and promoting the scientific understanding of psi phenomena, including telepathy, clairvoyance, and psychokinesis. His work, characterized by its interdisciplinary approach and rigorous statistical analysis, has significantly contributed to the academic and public discourse on the legitimacy and implications of psychic experiences. Radin's efforts have been instrumental in advocating for the open-minded and scientific exploration of these often-controversial subjects within the broader context of consciousness studies.Before joining the research staff at IONS in 2001, he held appointments at AT&T Bell Labs, Princeton University, University of Edinburgh, and SRI International. Dr. Radin is author or coauthor of hundreds of technical articles, some 125 peer-reviewed journal articles, four dozen book chapters, and four best-selling, popular books. Links are in the episode brief if you want to learn more.EPISODE BRIEFDONATE TO IONSIONS scientific research and free programs are entirely funded by generous gifts from members and donors. Make a gift today at noetic.org/give.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

For today's episode, I had the honor and the privilege of sitting down with someone who has been the driving force behind some of the most important breakthroughs in the UFO disclosure movement, journalist and author Leslie Kean.Along with journalists Ralph Blumenthal and Helene Cooper, Kean is responsible for the now historic 2017 article in The New York Times entitled Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money': The Pentagon's Mysterious U.F.O. Program that first revealed the existence of that program to the public. And in June of 2023, she teamed up with Ralph Blumenthal once again for another history-making piece in The Debrief about the stunning claims made by high-ranking intelligence official-turned-whistleblower. David Grusch, about the existence of secretive crash retrieval programs that are in possession of craft of non-human origin. Just those two articles alone are enough to earn her an unchallenged spot on the Mount Rushmore of disclosure, but they hardly represent the totality of her work in the field. On top of writing countless articles, Leslie is also the author of the book UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record as well as the book Surviving Death: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for an Afterlife. `I'll have all of that and more linked up in the episode description so you can check it out.Later this week on December 9th, Leslie will be co-hosting the fourth meeting of the Inquiry Into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference series in New York City alongside organizer Jay Christopher King and James Iandoli. Speakers include Diana Walsh Pasulka, Tim Gallaudet, Michael Masters, Paul H. Smith, Peter Skafish, and Josh Cutchin. A surprise guest speaker was just announced, as well—pilot and Nimitz incident witness Alex Dietrich.In-person tickets for this conference are currently sold out, but a limited number of livestream tickets are still available.GET LIVESTREAM TICKETS HEREAn Inquiry Into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conference series in NYCDec. 9, 2023EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today, I bring you something truly special. In this episode we're welcoming Diana Walsh Pasulka back to the show to discuss her groundbreaking new book, Encounters: Experiences with Non-Human Intelligences. Encounters is a worthy and deeply challenging follow-up to American Cosmic, which we've talked about extensively on this show. I hope you'll all read it, because we'll definitely return to those ideas again and again.I want to say ahead of time that this episode is going to be a little less accessible than the content I usually release here, and that is intentional. Diana has been doing the podcast circuit to support the launch of Encounters, and there have been some really phenomenal interviews going into the specifics of the book. In particular, I recommend her recent appearances on Somewhere In The Skies and That UFO Podcast—both did a great job of diving into the characters and experiences portrayed in the book, and they are worth your time.Hardcore listeners of the show will know that, over the last year, my thinking around the subject of UFOs has been deeply influenced by Plato's Cave, and particularly by a somewhat radical read on what it has to teach us that was first introduced to me by Diana and frequent guest of the show, James Madden. It was actually in one of Diana's classes on UFOs and the Cave where I first met Jim, and eventually struck up a friendship. And I've spent the last 18 months processing and integrating the things I've learned from them both. I'm profoundly grateful for what that process has opened up to me, not just in terms of my understanding of the phenomenon, but with regard to the meaning and possibilities inherent in human experience.On November 27th, Jim will also be releasing his first book on the UFO topic titled Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World which is being published by my new publishing house, Ontocalypse Press. Back in October, I had the absolute pleasure of finishing up the edits on Jim's book, while simultaneously reading an advance copy of Diana's and I was fascinated by the interplay between the ideas in both. I found myself thinking that the episode that I really wanted to make with regard to both of these phenomenal books would be one that didn't involve me, and in which Diana and Jim were given free reign to explore a conversation on their own. Luckily they agreed, and the result is the stunning conversation that I have the privilege of sharing with you today.This episode is definitely challenging, but for those of you who've been following along on this journey, you're in for a real treat. I have links to both Jim and Diana's books in the episode brief so you can get your hands on those if you haven't already. In my opinion these are two of the best and most important books about the UFO phenomenon published in recent memory, and both are destined to be classics of the field. EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM DIANA WALSH PASULKAEncounters: Experiences with Non-Human IntelligenceAmerican Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, TechnologyTwitterMORE FROM JAMES MADDENUnidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs. Philosophy, and the End of the WorldThinking About Thinking: Mind and Meaning in the Era of Techno-NihilismSubstackTwitterGET LIVESTREAM TICKETS: An Inquiry Into Anomalous Experience & The PhenomenonDec 9, 2023Featuring: Diana Walsh Pasulka, Michael Masters, Tim Gallaudet, Paul H. Smith, Josh Cutchin, Peter Skafish, and Leslie Kean.BECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase.Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

After months of work, its finally time to share with you all what I've been working on. Welcome to the Ontocalypse.Learn more about Ontocalypse Productions:Website: ontocalypse.comTwitter/X: @ontocalypseEmail: info@ontocalypse.comThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today we welcome James Madden back to the show. As “spooky season” draws to a close, I didn't want to miss the chance to explore some of the darker themes that have been inspiring both Jim's recent work, and our ongoing conversation about the nature of the UFO phenomenon—specifically the paranoia that comes from our uncanny encounters with things that lie just beyond the limits of our own personal caves. You can find Jim's most recent musings on his substack in a piece entitled Specters of the Thinking Machine: The Uncanny Suggestion of the Non-human within the Human, which I have linked up in the episode brief. In this episode we'll be exploring the themes of that article, as well as exploring a work that has become something of a touchstone for me in my exploration of the darker contours of the UFO phenomenon, the phenomenal docuseries, Hellier.EPISODE BRIEFFOLLOW JAMES MADDEN GET THE BOOK: Unidentified Flying HyperobjectSubstackTwitterWATCH HELLIERBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

I'm so excited about today's episode because I think it's been a long time coming. This episode isn't about UFOs, per se, but it is about something that often happens to people when they begin looking into this topic—or other topics that challenge our consensus reality—which is the sudden appearance of profound synchronicities. I hear from dozens of listeners of the podcast everyday, and one of the things that people reach out to me about most is to tell me that after they started listening to the podcast they suddenly started encountering strings of bizarre and improbable synchronicities in their lives. I've heard that exact thing from more people than I could ever get back to—and if you're one of those people, I just want you to know that I've heard you, and I wanted to do an episode about this very phenomenon that I hope can serve as sort of roadmap in beginning to understand and integrate what synchronicities are and how you can best ride the wave of the improbable in your own lives. And I couldn't think of anyone better to join me in this conversation than today's guest—the woman who literally wrote the book on strange coincidences—Sharon Hewitt Rawlette. I've been lucky enough to meet Sharon and hear her speak at two different conferences in the last year—both December's Inquire Anomalous conference in NYC, and Rice University's Archive's of the Impossible in May—and both times I was blown away by the depth and ingenuity of her thinking. Sharon has the ability to make complex ideas easy to grok, and every time I hear her speak I walk away with a new perspective and understanding. I'll link up both of those talks in the episode description if you'd like to check them out.Sharon Hewitt Rawlette is a philosopher who writes for both popular and scholarly audiences on the topics of consciousness, anomalous experience, ethics, and spirituality. Before launching her career as an independent writer and researcher, she earned her PhD in philosophy from New York University. She currently serves on the board of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies as well as being a supporting researcher for the International Centre for Reincarnation Research. She has published four books and in 2021 was named a runner-up in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest for her essay “Beyond Death,” on the best evidence for the survival of human consciousness after permanent bodily death.The book that we'll be referencing today is Sharon's book entitled The Source and Significance of Coincidences. And if you have any interest in this topic, I really can't recommend this book enough. Sharon attacks this topic from every conceivable angle, and the extensive table of contents makes it an invaluable reference tool when you want to dig a little deeper into strange coincidences that occur in your own life. [links in episode brief]EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

EPISODE BRIEFSUPPORT CHRIS SHARP & LIBERATION TIMESBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today, we have a very special guest on the show, Dr. Jeffrey Kripal. Dr. Kripal is an esteemed scholar and author in the study of religion, focusing particularly on the esoteric, mystical, and paranormal dimensions of human experience. He serves as the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University. He is the author of several phenomenal books including The Superhumanities, Mutants & Mystics, Super Natural (which he co-authored with Whitley Strieber), and The Flip.EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONPatrons get lots of great perks like early and ad-free episodes, access to the private The UFO Rabbit Hole Discord server, and twice-monthly Patron Zoom calls with Kelly Chase. Memberships start at just $5/month.GET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode we welcome back my dear friend and friend of the show, Dr. James Madden. This is the third episode that we've done together, and I'm sure that it won't be the last. My interviews with James Madden have become some of my most downloaded episodes, and so I know you guys love hearing from him. And I love talking to him, so we're just going to keep doing it. The deeper we dive into the phenomenon, the more necessary it becomes to not just interrogate what we think, but how we think—and to find new frameworks to help us do so. A philosophical approach gives the means to do that. And I've been so grateful to Jim for how generous he's been with his time and his thoughts as we navigate these deeper waters. As you all know, over the past several months Plato's Cave has become a central touchstone of this podcast. It's an idea I keep returning to, again and again, because as my own trip down the rabbit hole continues, I continue to find new insights within it. And so today, with Jim as our guide, we're going to return to the Cave, armed with the new ideas we've developed over these past several months, and see what new revelations might reveal themselves.With this episode we'll also be returning to our discussion of Whitley Strieber's groundbreaking new book, Them, which we discussed in the last episode. Strieber's decades of deep research and thinking on the topic of non-human intelligence as well as his own ongoing contact experiences have led him to develop a nuanced, challenging, and at times unsettling, understanding of “the others”—including how they operate at the fringes of our awareness and what they might ultimately be trying to tell us. EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today's episode is an important one, because it's going to lay the groundwork for a lot of the things that we're going to be discussing moving forward. In the weeks and months to come, this is an episode that I'll likely be referring back to often. And that's because today we're diving into an article written by two heavyweights of ufology that serves not only as an essential framework to support our understanding of the complexities and nuances of the UFO phenomenon, but that also—in a very real way—helped to lay the foundation for the recent push for UFO disclosure. In short, it's not only important that we take the time to really understand the ideas presented in this article—but to understand where it fits into the history of modern ufology. The paper to which I'm referring is Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-Layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena written by Jacques Vallée and Eric Davis. Most people will already be very familiar with those names, but just in case they are new to you, you can find links to their bios and other work in the episode brief. What is so significant about this paper is that it seeks to create a framework by which we can begin to analyze and integrate the parts of UFO encounters that rarely make it into sci-fi media, and even more rarely make it into serious discussions about the phenomenon itself—which is the undeniable and pervasive occurrence of events and effects that are traditionally relegated to the realms of high strangeness and the paranormal. If there's nothing else that you take away from this episode it should be this—encounters with UFOs and non-human intelligence are much, much weirder than you've probably been led to believe. EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonFeatured Song: Jacques Vallée by _shipTIMESTAMPS00:00:32 Introduction00:06:53 Problems with the SETI and UAP Paradigms00:07:25 —SETI & The Assumption of Mediocrity00:12:19 —Anthropocentric Bias in SETI00:14:54 —Anthropocentric Bias in Ufology00:16:27 The Need For A Unified Approach To UAP Studies00:20:01 The Six Layers of UAP Analysis00:20:30 —Layer I: Physical00:21:45 —Layer II: Anti-Physical00:23:00 —Layer III: Psychological00:29:53 —Layer IV: Physiological00:32:19 —Layer V: Psychic00:34:19 —Layer VI: Cultural00:37:10 Possible Nature of UAP Technology00:39:48 The Incommensurability Problem00:45:42 Semiotics00:51:35 High Strangeness & The Abduction Problem00:54:12 Conclusions00:56:23 Garry Nolan and Talking To Ants01:00:26 Whitley Strieber and “The Visitors In the Trees”01:12:42 Jacques Vallée by _shipMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonFeatured Song: Jacques Vallée by _shipThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

This week's episode barely felt like work because this week I sat down with my dear friend, and one of my favorite people, Jay Christopher King. Jay is the cofounder and director of The Experiencer Group, a private online community dedicated to support, curiosity & community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds. He is also the co-founder of the phenomenal Inquire Anomalous conference series in NYC along with James Iandoli.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.TRY HELLOFRESHGo to hellofresh.com/rabbit50 and use code rabbit50 for 50% off plus free shipping!TRY AG1If you want to take ownership of your health, try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 Free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. Go to drink AG1.com/RABBIT.___________________________ EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In the third and final chapter of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series we explore emerging theories with regards to the nature of reality and consciousness that have the potential to fix what's broken with “the official story of everything”. Specifically, we'll be looking at the work of Jefrey Kripal, Robert Lanza, and Donald Hoffman.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.TRY HELLOFRESHGo to hellofresh.com/rabbit50 and use code rabbit50 for 50% off plus free shipping!TRY AG1If you want to take ownership of your health, try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 Free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. Go to drink AG1.com/RABBIT.___________________________ EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:00:30 Introduction00:04:33 A New Paradigm Emerges00:09:52 The Flip00:13:41 —Triggering The Flip00:14:18 —The Impact Of The Flip00:14:56 —Where the Traditional Materialist View Fits00:15:46 —Full Disclosure00:17:17 Biocentrism00:20:35 —The Goldilocks Universe00:22:42 —If A Tree Falls In The Forest Does It Make A Sound?00:29:55 —Where Is The Universe?00:34:58 —The Participatory Universe & Quantum Mechanics00:36:21 —Space-Time Is Not Fundamental00:43:13 The Case Against Reality00:44:06 —How Evolution Hides The Truth00:46:33 —The Interface Theory of Perception00:48:22 —Objects As Mental Constructs00:49:48 —Space-Time Is Doomed00:50:42 Putting It All Together00:50:55 —Recognizing Our Uber-Umwelt00:57:29 —Consciousness—Not Space-Time—Is Fundamental01:00:59 ConclusionThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode, we do a deep-dive on the historic UFO hearing held by the House Oversight Committee featuring witnesses David Grusch, David Fravor, and Ryan Graves.GET THE EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

As we look forward to next week's hearing, we're discussing concerns about the witnesses, the stunning allegations from members of Congress, and what we should expect in the week to come.GET THE EPISODE BRIEFBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFFOLLOW EXO/DARRENExoAcademian YouTube ChannelTwitterPatreonJohn E. Mack Institute MENTIONED IN THE EPISODEExoAcademian/Darren interview on Engaging The PhenomenonDr. Diana Pasulka interview on Theories of EverythingThe Monroe InstituteGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. As the community continues to metabolize the stunning allegations by high-level intelligence official turned UFO whistleblower, David Grusch, and with more people waking up to the significance of this story everyday—the thing I'm hearing the most is just that people want to talk. We want to connect about this. If there's anything that I've learned over the past few years it's that this process of dismantling our consensus reality and coming to grips with a new one that shakes the foundations of every paradigm we have is a team sport. We're meant to do these things in community. Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with a bunch of really bright, like-minded people that I've met through doing this work, and it was honestly magical. We've come a long way in this conversation with the public-at-large, but for most of us who have a deep interest in this topic, we still find ourselves censoring and compartmentalizing to protect ourselves from the stigma we might face for simply considering these ideas. And so being able to gather with a group of people and let down those walls and give voice to the thoughts and hopes and anxieties that emerge when you're coming to terms with the realities of a highly advanced, non-human presence on this planet can be a massive relief. It's healing and I'd argue that it's necessary.But I know how rare those moments are, and I know that there are so many people who are more than ready to have those conversations, but who still haven't found a safe place for that. And so I wanted to do my best to bring one of those conversations to you.So this week, I sat down with my friend and colleague, Nathan, to chat about what this journey has been like, some of the stumbling blocks we've hit along the way, and how we can move forward into this strange new reality in a way that is healthy and productive. And I knew that Nathan would be the perfect person to have that conversation with. Nathan uses a mononym because, like so many in the community—including, I assume, many of you listening—he's a serious guy with a serious job who doesn't necessarily want to advertise his interest in UFOs. But though you won't find his last name online, what you will find is a bunch of phenomenal work. Nathan is the co-host of two great podcasts—Liminal Phrames on which he collaborates with Darren King (AKA ExoAcademian), and Calling All Beings, which he co-pilots along with a bunch of other wonderful contributors in the space including D.J., Deb, Leah Prime, and a rotating lineup of other friends.What I appreciate so much about Nathan is his rational yet deeply human-centered approach to the UFO phenomenon. He manages to navigate the deepest and most treacherous waters of this topic while still remaining grounded and without ever losing focus on the things that matter most—our relationships and connections with each other. Nathan is exactly the kind of friend that you'd want to have this kind of conversation with, and I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did. And may we all move forward from this episode with the intention of being that kind of friend for others who will soon be going through this, too. ___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFFOLLOW NATHANOn TwitterLiminal PhramesCalling All BeingsGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today, we're circling back to an idea that we visited in one of the earliest episodes of the podcast—the extratempestrial model. Sometimes also referred to as the future human hypothesis, the extratempestrial model is the idea that the UFOs phenomenon might represent advanced humans and human descendents who are traveling here from another point in time. I'll admit to struggling with this idea at first. Time travel has always seemed a little too clunky and a little too hokey to be taken seriously. But as so often happens on this trip down the rabbit hole, the more I learned and the more my perspective began to swell and shift to accommodate the strange new realities I was exploring, the more what once seemed like a kind of crazy idea to me suddenly started to make a heck of a lot of sense. And I found that many of my objections had more to do with the limitations of my knowledge than the limitations of the extratempestrial model. So I wanted to come back around to this idea, because there is a lot there to dig into, most of which didn't make it into the initial episode. And there are some new and updated ideas that I think are really valuable in understanding the complexities of the phenomenon. And there's no better way to take a deep dive into this topic than with one of the people who literally wrote the book on the extratempestrial model—Dr. Michael P. Masters. Micahel Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. He specializes in human evolution, osteology, and anatomical sciences. Dr. Master's work related to the phenomenon explores the potential evolutionary trajectories of humankind, linking anthropological theory to hypotheses about extraterrestrial life. He is the author of several books on the topic including Identified Flying Objects: A Multidisciplinary Scientific Approach to the UFO Phenomenon, The Extratempestrial Model, and his latest, a satirical science fiction novel called, Revelation: The Future Human Past.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:30 - Introduction07:20 - What Is The Extratempestrial Model?09:50 - The Extratempestrial Model & The Interdimensional Hypothesis11:29 - The Social & Biological Trends That Hint At The Extratempestrial Model16:32 - Technology & The “Other”20:48 - Technological Variability In Humans21:02 - The Communication Problem25:38 - How Technology Is Shaped By Biology28:52 - Exotic Bipedal Beings32:17 - Could Humanoid Beings Be The Result of Biomimicry?37:08 - Are UFOs Time Machines?43:50 - The Nimitz Incident47:18 - Rethinking The Impossible49:57 - The Block Universe59:02 - Revelation: The Future Human PastThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode, we explore the complexities of confronting the reality of UFO disclosure. Information that significantly challenges your worldview can be hard to process. In light of UFO whistleblower David Grusch's recent allegations—that the US government is in possession of non-human craft and bodies—even those within the community who thought that they were ready for these kinds of revelations have found themselves reeling. In this episode, we discuss ontological shock—what it is, how to cope with it, and how to avoid the major pitfalls. And we work on beginning to resolve our ontological shock but getting ourselves reoriented in a world where nothing is as we once thought it was. No matter where you are in your journey, I hope this episode offers you something that you can take for the road. And if you know people who are just starting out, or who are finding themselves feeling disoriented right now in ways they can't identify, this is a great episode to share with them.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:00:30 Introduction00:05:30 Ontological Shock00:07:29 The Signs of Ontological Shock00:08:42 The Pitfalls of Ontological Shock00:14:07 Resolving Ontological Shock00:16:47 What Exactly Are We Dealing With?00:19:00 How Has Perception of the UFO Phenomenon Changed Over Time?00:19:11 -UFOs: 1947 to Present00:23:48 -UFOs: Before 194700:29:13 What Forces Have Shaped & Influenced The Perception Of UFOs00:29:44 -Cultural Context00:36:47 -The Government00:50:38 -The Media00:57:47 -The Phenomenon01:00:25 Who Can You Trust?This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

On Monday, June 5th, 2023, a story was published by The Debrief presenting claims from the first whistleblower to step forward publicly since the passing of UAP whistleblower legislation with the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act a few months ago. This whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, is a high-level member of the intelligence community, and he is claiming to have knowledge of special access programs that have recovered non-human technological craft. Later that same day, an excerpt from an interview with the whistleblower conducted by investigative journalist, Ross Coulthart, was aired on NewsNation in which Rusch made even more shocking claims—including the allegation that the US has also recovered the bodies of the non-human pilots of these craft.In this episode we do a deep dive into this story, doing our best to frame it within the great context of the disclosure movement, and ask the question: what does all this mean? And can what David Grusch is saying really be true?___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonTIMESTAMPS00:30 Introduction03:14 What Makes This Story So Significant?07:10 Why Wasn't The UFO Whistleblower Story In The New York Times?10:02 What Led Up To This?10:17 -Luis Elizondo & the 2017 New York Times Article12:31 -The UAP Task Force14:02 -AARO16:50 -2023 NDAA17:10 What Is David Charles Grusch?20:10 Who Did Grusch Talk To?20:42 What Did Grusch Tell Congress?23:35 Wait—So David Grusch Never Saw The Craft Or Bodies?27:19 How Do We Know David Grusch Is Who He Says He Is?27:57 -Karl E. Nell28:27 -Christopher Mellon29:13 -Jonathan Grey30:43 -Jim Shell31:32 Retaliation and Disclosure of Urgent Concerns34:02 David Grusch's Interview with Ross Coulthart37:08 Thoughts on the Interview40:23 The Implications of Grusch's Allegations47:57 Pentagon Response48:14 What Can We Do?This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

In this episode, I spoke with author, illustrator, and researcher, Mike Clelland. Mike is the author of several books, two of which we'll be discussing directly in this episode. The first is The Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity, and the UFO Abductee. The second is his latest release, The Unseen, which is a fiction book that deals with many of the themes of his other work. He also provided the illustrations for the book The Cryptoterrestrials: A Meditation on Indigenous Humanoids and the Aliens Among Us by Mac Tonnies, that we'll also be discussing in this episode. You can find links to all of his work below.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________BOOKS BY MIKE CLELLANDThe Messengers: Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO AbducteeThe UnseenMore Books By Mike ClellandFOLLOW MIKE CLELLANDTwitterWebsiteGET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Today we're diving into Part 2 of the Waking Up Inside The Cave series. If you haven't listened to that part 1 yet, I highly recommend that you do so first. It's linked in the episode brief. For many who take the trip down the UFO rabbit hole, there comes a point where you find yourself asking much bigger questions about reality. It boils down to this:The UFO phenomenon is impossible by every single measure that we use to determine such things, and yet it is. And the existence of the impossible posits that the models that we use to determine what is possible and what isn't are irretrievably flawed. There is no other logical explanation. Frankly, if UFOs don't make you question the nature of your reality, you haven't understood them. In part 1 of this series, we took a closer look at the most fundamental mean-making models that we have starting with the very origins of the universe. And I made the case that very little about this narrative makes any kind of rational sense, and that its only real utility lies in explaining things away without actually explaining them at all. When exposed to the harsh light of objective interrogation, the consensus view of reality quickly dissipates like morning fog. Plato's Cave has become a touchstone in this podcast because it provides the perfect framework for discussing the process of pursuing this line of questioning. And as we begin to recognize that consensus reality is little more than a shadowplay on the wall, the inevitable questions arise:Where are we? What is this place? And what is the shadowplay meant to conceal?We discussed back in episode 18 in my first interview with James Madden that humans are natural cave builders. All of the greatest achievements of civilization have required that we be able to create shared worldviews and agreed upon meanings for things. It's our superpower every bit as much as it is our weakness. And I think it's important to keep in mind that just because we find ourselves in a cave doesn't necessarily mean that someone put us there. The walls of the cave could be entirely self-created. And yet, when you find yourself tied up in a cave and recognize that the very nature of your reality has been concealed, seemingly intentionally, it's impossible not to wonder about who your potential captors might be–and about what strange new world might be waiting for you outside its walls. Over the past several years a strange and disturbing idea has been popularized by everyone from futurists to tech billionaires–namely that we are living in a simulation. Could this be the explanation for the strange position in which we find ourselves? Could Plato's Cave be more than just an allegory? Could what we perceive as our reality actually be our prison?It sounds like the plot of The Matrix, but the more we learn, the more likely this unsettling scenario becomes. Buckle up, because this rabbit hole is going to be a wild ride.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun FrearsonThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5746035/advertisement

Ryan Sprague is the creator and host of the Somewhere in the Skies podcast and the author of the new book Stories from Somewhere in the Skies. He is a regular on Ancient Aliens (History Channel) and a lead investigator and co-host of Mysteries Decoded (CW Network). Sprague's research finds him interviewing witnesses, scientists, military personnel, and intelligence officials directly on UFOs, writing for The Debrief. Speaking on UFOs, he has been featured on ABC News and 7News Australia. He has consulted for Amblin Entertainment and been featured in Newsweek, The NY Post, and VICE.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFMORE FROM RYAN SPRAGUEBooks by Ryan Sprague:Stories from Somewhere In The SkiesSomewhere In The Skies: A Human Approach To The UFO Phenomenon WebsiteFollow Ryan on TwitterFollow Somewhere In The Skies on TwitterBECOME A PATRONFOR ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE OHIO UFO HERITAGE CONFERENCEPlease contact Jon Horvath at theufofestival@gmail.comGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson

In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Avi Loeb. Dr. Loeb was the longest serving chair of Harvard's Department of Astronomy from 2011–2020. In June 2020, he was sworn in as a member of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology. And, most relevant to today's conversation, he is also currently the head of Harvard's Galileo Project whose mission is the systematic scientific search for evidence of extraterrestrial technological artifacts.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTRUse my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr.WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEThe article written by Avi Loeb & Sean Kirkpatrick: Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial PhenomenaFOLLOW THE GALILEO PROJECTWebsiteTwitterCONTACT IN THE DESERTSee Dr. Avi Loeb, Graham Hancock, George Noory and many more incredible speakers at Contact in the Desert taking place June 2-4, 2023.Tickets are on sale now: https://contactinthedesert.com/BECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOK|Get a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson

Today we welcome back Dr. James Madden to the show. As I'm sure you'll recall, Jim joined us a couple of months ago for a discussion about Plato's Cave. We also discussed some of his latest work applying the philosophical concept of the umwelt to the UFO phenomenon. And I was really excited to see that that episode has become one of the most listened to episodes of the podcasts, because it's definitely one of my favorites. If you haven't listened to that episode yet, I highly recommend that you go back to that one first. Jim's work builds on itself, and it will be helpful to lay down the foundation with that episode before moving onto this one.In this episode, we'll be moving on to Dr. Madden's latest work. Over the last few months, in a flurry of articles released through his Substack, Jim has laid out a series of arguments as to the nature of the UFO phenomenon that are, frankly, mind blowing. It's not over-stating things to say that what Jim has done is to essentially break ufology–and I mean that in the best possible way. Because, in many ways, it's been clear to anyone who is really paying attention that the traditional models and ontologies that have dominated modern ufology have needed to break. We began this podcast talking about what the UFO phenomenon might be, and we did a deep dive into the primary hypotheses including extraterrestrial, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional, extraterrestrial, etc. And all of those models are really useful for helping us to push our thinking about what the intelligence behind UFOs may represent. But if we're being really honest with ourselves, we have to admit that none of them really fit. They come close in some ways, fall short in others, and ultimately leave us feeling like we're trying to stretch a full-sized sheet over a queen-sized bed. What we've needed–desperately–is a model that would collapse all of those ontological categories and integrate them into a larger, more coherent whole. And I'd argue that what Dr. Madden is postulating with regard to the UFO phenomenon does exactly that. I truly believe that what he is pointing to here is the future of ufology. This work is urgent and critically important for us moving forward.___________________________TRY BETTERHELPThis episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ RABBITHOLE and get on your way to being your best self.GET ZENCASTR"Use my special link zen.ai/rabbit30 and use rabbit30 to save 30% off your first three months of Zencastr professional. #madeonzencastr."WONGO PUZZLESUse my special link [https://zen.ai/rabbit10] to save 10% at wongopuzzles.com. The discount will be applied at checkout!___________________________GET THE EPISODE BRIEFDR. JAMES MADDEN'S WORKThe SubstackArticles Referenced In This Episode:UFO Realism and the Uber-UmweltUnidentified Flying HyperobjectMagonia as HyperobjectThe UFO, Religion, and Our Epistemic VulnerabilityFOLLOW DR. JAMES MADDENWebsiteTwitterOTHER WORK REFERENCEDHyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology after the End of the World (Posthumanities) by Timothy MortonThe Third Table by Graham HarmanThe Will to Power by Friedrich NietzscheThus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for Everyone and No One by Friedrich NietzscheBECOME A PATRONGET THE BOOKGet a SIGNED COPYGet it on AmazonFOLLOWWebsiteTwitterFacebookMUSICTheme: Cabinet of Curiosities by Shaun Frearson