Podcast appearances and mentions of Carol Kaye

Tyrese Halliburton goes down and so do the Pacers, Just another night in downtown Indy, US strikes Iranian nuclear sites, Rep. Hank Johnson thinks he can sing, Carol Kaye says that she wants no part of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Demonstrators gathered in Broad Ripple and Monument Circle on Sunday after Iran strikes, Indiana Dem Matt McNally tries to shame Trump after US Strike on IranSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tyrese Halliburton goes down and so do the Pacers, Just another night in downtown Indy, US strikes Iranian nuclear sites, Rep. Hank Johnson thinks he can sing, Carol Kaye says that she wants no part of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Demonstrators gathered in Broad Ripple and Monument Circle on Sunday after Iran strikes, Indiana Dem Matt McNally tries to shame Trump after US Strike on Iran. Indiana State Senator Bohacek gets to drive while is OWI case take place, VP Vance: We do not want war, The Big Fake Check, Regime Change? Good guy with gun saves many lives at Wayne, Michigan Church, Heartbreaking loss for the Pacers, but the Finals were great for Indianapolis, The entire 18.2% increase in retail sales over the last 4 years was just inflation increasing sales prices, Late Night with David Letterman debuted June 23rd, 1980, What a year it has been for the PacersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chasing the shade and applying Factor 50 in the wilting heat of this week's rock and roll news turns the conversation to … … Kneecap v the Prime Minister.… will any openly anti-Trump musician find it hard to tour the States?… the girl who's listening to all 10,000 of her late father's albums, one 60-second Instagram reel at a time.… a bottle of Snoop Dogg rosé, anyone?   … why Carol Kaye turned down the Hall Of Fame. … Hollywood and “the genius of the system” v the current vogue for applauding individual genius. … Lottie Golden, Laurie Styvers, Jeannie Piersol and our love for High Moon Records, the Virago of the record business. … why self-sabotage is a British institution. … Nick Cave Unisex Clogs? Pet Shop Boys chrome pepper-grinder? Brave new frontiers in pop merchandise. … Genya Ravan's I Won't Sleep On The Wet Spot No More. … Beau Dommage, Dragon's Breath, Two Left Feet … Canadian band or voguish craft ale? Also in the mix … Dawn French, Phoebe Snow, Humphrey Ocean, Alan Bennett and Bridget St John.Find out more about how to help us to keep the conversation going: https://www.patreon.com/wordinyourear Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week's episode of Friends Talking Nerdy, Professor Aubrey and Tim the Nerd dive deep into the just-announced 2025 Class of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. With their usual mix of thoughtful analysis, historical insight, and a healthy dose of nerdy passion, the duo breaks down the list of official inductees and shares their thoughts on what each artist or contributor brings to the legacy of rock and popular music.The conversation kicks off with a celebration of long-overdue recognition, as they discuss the inclusion of Bad Company, Joe Cocker, and the energetic pioneer Chubby Checker. They reflect on the vocal power and emotional resonance of Cocker's performances, the timeless grooves of Bad Company, and Checker's role in shaping early rock dance culture.Next up, they shift to iconic voices and game-changers of the '80s and '90s. Cyndi Lauper and Salt N Pepa spark discussion on pop's evolution and hip-hop's expanding influence on the Rock Hall. OutKast's induction offers a springboard into the genre-defying brilliance of André 3000 and Big Boi, while Soundgarden's inclusion brings a reflective moment on grunge, Chris Cornell's legacy, and the band's impact on alternative rock.The duo also delves into the raw garage rock revivalism of The White Stripes and the poetic lyricism of cult-favorite Warren Zevon, dissecting how both acts carved unique paths in music history. Their conversation highlights how the Hall is slowly broadening its definition of rock — and why that matters.Beyond the performers, Professor Aubrey and Tim celebrate the often unsung heroes of music with the inductions of Thom Bell, Nicky Hopkins, Carol Kaye, and Lenny Waronker. From Bell's lush Philadelphia soul arrangements to Kaye's legendary bass lines, they shine a spotlight on the behind-the-scenes talent that shaped the sound of generations.To close out the episode, the hosts revisit their predictions from Episode 401, where they each chose who they believed should be inducted this year. With the full 2025 class revealed, the friendly rivalry comes to a head as they tally up their correct picks. Who had the better crystal ball? Tune in to find out!As always, we wish to thank Christopher Lazarek for his wonderful theme song. Head to his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for information on how to purchase his EP, Here's To You, which is available on all digital platforms.Head to Friends Talking Nerdy's⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for more information on where to find us online.

The gruesome twosome are back after a couple weeks to bring you all things Couchella, Rock n Roll HOF, and little talk about Naked and Afraid. Last week's episode was taken down by Spotify, but it's over on our YouTube. I was a great episode we did on an incredible hip hop group.

The Podcast That Rocked for 4/30/25. Rock Hall 2025 has good inductees, Metallica dropping 30-hour Load, more. ||Get $40 off any H1H Bundle with the code ROCKED at checkout at https://www.heavys.com ||_ The Podcast That Rocked | Every Wednesday 8PM EST on https://www.youtube.com/@rockednet - Discussion Topics:Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame 2025 Inductees and our thoughtsMetallica to drop 30-hour LoadCode Orange on indefinite hiatusThree Days Grace change all back artworkOhana Fest making a peaceful festival legacyUpcoming tours and albums- SONG OF THE WEEK: Ghost “Missilia Amori” = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx-jo3VLw4Y - “The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame will make fans of some long-neglected acts very happy when the class of 2025 is inducted later this year. Among this year's inductees -- announced Sunday night during ABC's American Idol -- are first-time nominees Bad Company, Joe Cocker and Chubby Checker, along with Soundgarden on its third go-round and the White Stripes and Cyndi Lauper, each on their second. The hip-hop duo Outkast fills out the Performers category, also on its first nomination. Longtime slight Warren Zevon -- who passed away during 2003 and was nominated just once, in 2023 -- will receive one of two Musical Influence Awards, with Salt-N-Pepa receiving the other. Musical Excellence Awards will be presented to Carol Kaye, bassist for Phil Spector's Wrecking Crew and the late pianist Nicky Hopkins, who both worked with numerous Rock Hall inductees themselves, and to celebrated Philadelphia soul songwriter and producer Thom Bell.” (Ultimate Classic Rock) - Hosted by: Luke = https://bsky.app/profile/rockednet.bsky.social Alex = https://bsky.app/profile/voiceofalex.bsky.social Rowan = https://bsky.app/profile/rowbuck01.bsky.social

Tom Lane, David Schnelwar, Michelle Bourg, and Greg Peurach return to discuss their reactions to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame's Announcement of the 2025 inductees. We recorded this episode the night after the big announcement.This year's inductees are Bad Company, Thom Bell, Chubby Checker, Joe Cocker, Nicky Hopkins, Carol Kaye, Cyndi Lauper, Outkast, Salt-N-Pepa, Soundgarden, Lenny Waronker, The White Stripes, and Warren Zevon.Send us a text

In this episode of Prisoners of Rock and Roll, we're diving into the shadows of the stage—the bass players, the four-string rebels who hold down the low end.. These aren't just rhythm keepers; they're the heartbeat of rock, the growl in the groove. We've put together a list of some of the most iconic bass players in music history. James Jamerson, the legendary Motown musician who played the slinky groove for What's Going On while laying drunk on the studio floor.  Bootsy Collins and his cosmic funk. Lemmy eating lightning and crapping thunder as the bassist for Motorhead. The psychedelic jams of Phil Lesh, the jazz fire of Charles Mingus, and Les Claypool's…whatever it is that he does. Paul McCartney, The Ox, John Paul Jones, Donald Duck Dunn, and Carol Kaye.  They're musicians who broke out of the background, proving the bass isn't just support—it's the pulse of the music. So turn it up, feel the rumble, and let's give these low-end legends the stage they deserve. Episode Playlist Check out our episode playlist ⁠⁠here⁠⁠. Get In Touch Check us out ⁠⁠online⁠⁠, on⁠⁠ Facebook⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠YouTube.⁠⁠ or drops us an email at ⁠⁠show@prisonersofrockandroll.com⁠⁠. Or if you're in Philadelphia, come visit our home base at ⁠⁠McCusker's Tavern⁠⁠. Prisoners of Rock and Roll is part of ⁠⁠Pantheon Media⁠⁠. We're sponsored by⁠⁠ Boldfoot Socks⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Prisoners of Rock and Roll, we're diving into the shadows of the stage—the bass players, the four-string rebels who hold down the low end.. These aren't just rhythm keepers; they're the heartbeat of rock, the growl in the groove. We've put together a list of some of the most iconic bass players in music history. James Jamerson, the legendary Motown musician who played the slinky groove for What's Going On while laying drunk on the studio floor.  Bootsy Collins and his cosmic funk. Lemmy eating lightning and crapping thunder as the bassist for Motorhead. The psychedelic jams of Phil Lesh, the jazz fire of Charles Mingus, and Les Claypool's…whatever it is that he does. Paul McCartney, The Ox, John Paul Jones, Donald Duck Dunn, and Carol Kaye.  They're musicians who broke out of the background, proving the bass isn't just support—it's the pulse of the music. So turn it up, feel the rumble, and let's give these low-end legends the stage they deserve. Episode Playlist Check out our episode playlist ⁠here⁠. Get In Touch Check us out ⁠online⁠, on⁠ Facebook⁠, ⁠Twitter⁠, or ⁠YouTube.⁠ or drops us an email at ⁠show@prisonersofrockandroll.com⁠. Or if you're in Philadelphia, come visit our home base at ⁠McCusker's Tavern⁠. Prisoners of Rock and Roll is part of ⁠Pantheon Media⁠. We're sponsored by⁠ Boldfoot Socks⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hoy Carol Kaye cumple 90 años. ¿Quién es? Vas a alucinar. Bajista y guitarrista grabó su instrumento en varios, en muchos de los mayores éxitos de la música popular estadounidense desde finales de los años cincuenta del siglo pasado para los artistas más históricos: Elvis Presley, The Beach Boys, Barbra Streisand, Sam Cooke, Quincy Jones, Buffalo Springfield, J.J. Cale, Simon & Garfunkel, Joe Cocker, etc, etc, etc. He aquí una selección sucinta. ¡Feliz cumpleaños, Carol! DISCO 1 LALO SCHIFRIN Mission Impossible (ESCA) DISCO 2 THE BEACH BOYS California Girls (ESCA)  DISCO 3 GLORIA JONES Tainted Love (ESCA)  DISCO 4 THE MONKEES I’m A Believer (ESCA) DISCO 5 RITCHIE VALENS La Bamba (ESCA) DISCO 6 ELVIS PRESLEY Suspicious Mind (ESCA) DISCO 7 NANCY SINATRA These Boots Are Made For Walking (ESCA) DISCO 8 J.J. CALE Carry On (ESCA) DISCO 9 THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS You’ve Lost That Loving Feeling (ESCA) DISCO 10 BUFFALO SPRINGFIELD  Expecting To Fly (ESCA) DISCO 11 QUINCY JONES Them From Bill Cosby Show (ESCA) DISCO 12 SIMON & GARFUNKEL Homeward Bound (ESCA) DISCO 13 GLEN CAMPBELL Wichita Lineman (ESCA) DISCO 14 SAM COOKE Summertime (ESCA) DISOC 15 JOE COCKER Feeling Alright (ESCA)Escuchar audio

Musician Carol Kaye joins Frank Mackay on this episode of The Frank Mackay Show!

Musician Carol Kaye joins Frank Mackay on this episode of The Frank Mackay Show!

durée : 00:54:11 - Et je remets le son - par : Matthieu Conquet - Du Wild Classical Music Ensemble à Kendrick Lamar en passant par Hot Chip & Sleaford Mods, Le Juiice, Matthieu Boogaerts, une moisson de rythmes ce soir. On parlera aussi du livre de Colin Greenwood de Radiohead et du portrait d'une bassiste d'exception : Carol Kaye.

135 - Elgin Park (Michael Andrews) the Greyboy Allstars In episode 135 of “Have Guitar Will Travel”, presented by Vintage Guitar Magazine, host James Patrick Regan speaks with Elgin Park (aka Michael Andrews) guitarist with the Greyboy Allstars, he's also a producer, television and film score composer. In their conversation Elgin covers what the Greyboy Allstars music is and describes a couple new releases in the works. Elgin tells us about the formation of the Greyboy Allstars as a band behind DJ Greyboy and his beginnings as a guitarist. Elgin describes his first guitars a Harmony Rocket and his local music store Freedom Music in downtown San Diego where he bought a ‘58 sunburst Fender Music Master and then a Gibson SG jr and describes his amp a Fender Harvard tweed that his sister's boyfriend left at the family's home. Elgin also describes his current guitars that he uses with the Greyboy Allstars, a mid 60's Gibson ES 175 that he got from a show guitarist in Las Vegas and an early 50's Guild T 100. Elgin takes us through the rest of his guitars in his studio and some special amps including Carol Kaye's bass amp he bought from her and an amp he got from Ry Cooder. Elgin (Michael Andrews) then tells us about his scoring work which began in earnest with the TV show Freaks and Geeks, and his work with Judd Apatow including “Bridesmaids” and quite a few documentaries including “20 Feet from Stardom”. Elgin also highlights a guitar he bought from the want ads of Vintage Guitar Magazine in the 1990's sight unseen from Florida. . You can find all you want about Elgin at the Greyboy Allstars website: greyboyallstars.com . Please subscribe, like, comment, share and review this podcast! . #VintageGuitarMagazine #ElginPark #theGreyboyAllstars #JuddApatow #ExoticGuitars #FreeksandGeeks #guitar #Guitar #Bridesmaids #20feetfromstardom #GuitarHero #theDeadlies #haveguitarwilltravelpodcast #HGWT . . Please like, comment, and share this podcast! Download Link

The prolific career of Carol Kaye.

Doc opens talking about women trailbrazers in sports, art and medicine. Doc uses examples of Billie Jean King in sports and Carol Kaye in art. Injury of the week is Chris Paul's shoulder injury. The Weekend Warrior Clinic opens for listeners.

Disney Chorus and Orchestra [00:20] "Little April Shower" Walter Disney's Story of Bambi Disneyland ST 3903 1960 Plip plop plip. You may recall from the last episode we heard a track from Stay Awake. On that album, "Little April Shower" is performed by Natalie Merchant, Michael Stipe, and the Roches (https://youtu.be/7ObPekx0h0M?si=BWAulm8X4hnsji14). Thelonius Monk [03:35] "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" Straight No Chaser Columbia CS 2651 1967 Monk takes a fine run at this standard originally recorded by Cab Calloway. Helped out here by Charlie Rouse on tenor sax, Larry Gales on bass, and Ben Riley on drums. Kyle Dixon and Michael Stein [11:14] "The Upside Down" Stranger Things - Volume One (A Netflix Series) Lakeshore Records 2016 Ah, the first season (https://youtu.be/b9EkMc79ZSU?si=8SqvgKenleN2NEJ0) was pretty near perfect. Had to go with the iconic title track. Frank Sinatra with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra [12:21] "Call Me" Strangers in the Night Reprise Records FS 1017 1966 Oddly enough, Frank has not one but two (2!) Petula Clark covers on this album including this one. I much prefer the brassy sassy production of Petula's version (https://youtu.be/M_mkSWxN2xk?si=gya-HwLlYCWK093i). Less Art [16:22] "Diana the Huntress" Strangled Light Gilead Media RELIC88 2017 Featuring members of Kowloon Walled City and Thrice. Igor Stravinsky and the Columbia Symphony Orchestra [19:34] "Firebird Ballet Suite (1945): Introduction - Prelude and Dance of the Firebird - Variations" Stravinsky Conducts Firebird Suite/Petrushka Suite Columbia Masterworks MS 7011 1967 This is the 1945 arrangement of The Firebird Suite. Roxy Music [22:44] "Over You" Street Life - 20 Great Hits EG EGTV 1 1986 A single orignally from Roxy Music's Flesh and Blood (https://youtu.be/3TL-Bc1giO8?si=FaZvmtDfdg2K-5uF). Evidently recorded as a way to tes tout Phil Manzanera's recently constructed studio. Made it as high as number 80 on the Hot 100. Death Valley Girls [26:07] "Electric High" Street Venom Suicide Squeeze SSQ181 2021 (originally recorded and released in 2014) Closing track to Death Valley Girl's debut studio album. Psych rock excellence (https://youtu.be/AO8z3AwIIaw?si=JCyzx7zyGK17UD5K). Salem 66 [31:08] "Seven Steps Down" 1984 Great Plains [mm:ss] "When Do You Say Hello" 1983 Strum and Thrum: The American Jangle Underground 1983-1987 Captured Tracks CT-302 2020 If you love jangle, you'll love Strum and Thrum. 28 tracks of jingle jangle goodness. An exceptional compilation that includes a 80 page booklet that dives into the scene. Yo La Tengo [36:39] "My Heart's Not In It" Stuff Like That There Matador OLE-1079-1 2015 It's hard to choose just once song from this album, but the opening track does a great job getting the listener in the mood for the album. It's a lovely rendition of the Gerry Goffin/Russ Titelman single recorded by Darlene McCrea (https://youtu.be/CuetP9wAHnY?si=o9YtuELwMU3C6S0v). New Order [39:25] "Sub-Culture" Sub-Culture Factory fac 133 1985 A remix by John Robie of the band's third single from Low-life (https://youtu.be/Uetuplhan_U?si=Or8I0F30teDUWLOh). The flip side is, of course, Dub-Culture. Ahmed Ben Ali [47:53] "Subhana" Subhana Habibi Funk HABIBI022 2023 That's right... reggae by way of Libya. Evidently reggae arrived right around peak Bob Marley and the Wailers and it took off from there. Barren Harvest [52:46] "Claw and Feather" Subtle Cruelties Handmade Birds HB-071 2014 Some dark and lovely ambient folk metal from Portland featuring Jessica Way of Worm Ourobouros. Nancy Sinatra [58:33] "Sugar Town" Sugar Reprise Records RS-6239 1967 A Lee Hazlewood number (naturally) that he says is an allusion to LSD sugar cubes. Featuring Wrecking Crew members including the great Carol Kaye, Glen Campbell, and Hal Blaine. Music behind the DJ: "These Boots Were Made for Walking" by Les Brown and his Orchestra

Music appreciation grows when we understand the artistry behind timeless records like Pet Sounds. With Hal Blaine on drums, Carol Kaye on bass, and microphones like the Neumann U47 capturing the nuances, every detail was designed to evoke emotion. These intricate techniques, paired with Brian Wilson's vision, reveal that classic music is not just heard—it's deeply crafted for lasting impact.

Los Angeles-based Denny Tedesco is an award-winning documentary producer and director. His credits include The Wrecking Crew, which showcases his father, Tommy Tedesco, and the LA session players such as Glen Campbell, Leon Russell, Carol Kaye, Hal Blaine and many others who recorded thousands of hit records and soundtracks from the late 1950s to the early 1970s. Denny's most recent project, Immediate Family (available on Amazon), features the session musicians (Waddy Watchel, Russ Kunkel, Leland Sklar, Danny Kortchmar, Steve Powell) who played for James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Phil Collins, Stevie Nicks, and Linda Ronstadt, among others. Both of these documentaries are "must-sees" for any music fan.

June 13-19, 1970 This week Ken welcomes legendary bass-man, and all around punk rock royalty, Mr. Mike Watt to the show. Ken and Mike discuss San Pedro, first meeting D. Boon, moving to San Pedro in 1967 from Navy Housing, living in the projects, saying no to Alameda, George being from Brocton, strong accents, how all the Minutemen were transplants to San Pedro, D. Boon's mom, how trippy the Summer of 1970 was, Blue Oyster Cult, UHF stations, Wild Wild West, Star Trek, Mission Impossible, not having a color TV, how The Prisoner is Mike's favorite show, M*A*S*H, All in the Family, D. Boon's love of Johnny Carson because his dad was from Nebraska, WWII movies, T. Rex, local horror hosts, the origin of "D." in D. Boom, Steve McQueen, The Sand Pebbles, B-Movies, Svenghouli, Elvira, The Stooges, Vampira, local kid shows, LA's Seymour, Fright Night, opening for The Butthole Surfers, how Gibby Haynes' father was a children's TV Show host called Mr. Peppermint, the JFK assassination, Gumby, Alan Watts, Alex Cox's book about The Prisoner, Ice Station Zebra, Patrick McGoohan, The Honeymooners, Green Acres, stupid characters, My Favorite Martian, Non coms, The Phil Silvers Show, F Troop, punk rock, Ed Sullivan, Robert Mitchem, The Space Race, Mad Magazine, Star Trek The Motion Picture, subscriptions to Scientific America, the importance of learning, serious topics, drunks, Johnny Cash, variety shows, Kirk Douglas, Edward G. Robinson, Two Weeks in Another Town, Carol Kaye's Wild Wild West bass line, Mission Impossible, Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer, Director's control, Kubrick, watching YouTube, The Outer Limits, Soldier, Demon with a Glass Hand, and loving Offbeat Cinema. 

This week, we continue our series of women in rock. Sadie introduces us to Carole Kaye, a trailblazing female bassist whose remarkable talent shaped the sound of American popular music in the 1960s and 70s. Despite her significant contributions to over 10,000 songs, Kaye remains relatively under-recognized and unsung. As a key member of a group of elite Los Angeles session musicians, she worked with iconic figures like The Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra, The Supremes, Sonny and Cher, and Ray Charles, featured on hits like "California Girls" and "These Boots Are Made for Walkin.' We discuss her legendary bass skills, how she not only broke barriers in a male-dominated industry but also inspired generations through her work as an educator, and how her enduring legacy stands as a testament to her exceptional skill, resilience, and influence, underscoring her role as a pivotal figure in the soundtrack of rock and roll's most celebrated era. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adam talks with English singer, songwriter, book writer and co-founder of seminal 90's shoegaze band Lush, Miki Berenyi about private school shame, Miki's unconventional and at times troubling upbringing, meeting her pop idols as a young fan in 1980s London, the excesses of life on the road with the 1992 Lollapalooza tour and there's audio evidence of a young Miki attending a show by a legendary Indie band just a year after they had formed.This episode includes references to child abuse, including sexual, physical and psychological abuse, which some may find distressing. Should you have any concerns about a child, you can contact the NSPCC's Helpline on help@nspcc.org.uk or on 0808 800 5000, where dedicated child protection specialists will be able to help.The NSPCC's website also has advice and resources for adults supporting children, and children can contact Childline any time on 0800 1111 or by chat on the website.This conversation was recorded face-to-face in London on October 26th, 2023Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and conversation editing.Podcast artwork by Helen GreenADAM BUXTON PODCAST LIVE @ LONDON PALLADIUM, Tuesday 19th March, 2024RELATED LINKSMIKI 2023 LIVE DATES (INSTAGRAM) FINGERS CROSSED: HOW MUSIC SAVED ME FROM SUCCESS by Miki Berenyi - 2022 (ROUGH TRADE WEBSITE)THE SMITHS LIVE, CAMDEN DINGWALLS (AUDIO ONLY) - 30th August 1983 (YOUTUBE)Miki and Emma can be heard calling for 'Handsome Devil' at 43.26LUSH 120 MINUTES INTERVIEW - 1996 (YOUTUBE)LUSH ON SNUB TV - 1990 (YOUTUBE)MIKI BERENYI OF LUSH - IT WAS THE BEST OF TIMES IT WAS THE WORST OF TIMES David Hepworth and Mark Ellen interview - 2022 (YOUTUBE)GIRL IN A BAND: TALES FROM THE ROCK'N'ROLL FRONTLINE 1 - 2015 (YOUTUBE)GIRL IN A BAND: TALES FROM THE ROCK'N'ROLL FRONTLINE 2 - 2015 (YOUTUBE)BBC doc about the experiences of women in the music business presented by writer Kate Mossman featuring contributions from Miki, Tina Weymouth, Viv Albertine, Carol Kaye, Brix Smith Start and others.MARGARET THATCHER - THE WALDEN INTERVIEW - 1989 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Most working people have that day gig – accountant, engineer, admin, hospitality. The job pays the bills and puts food on the table. We don't tend to think of being a musician as a day job category. Welcome to episode 110 of See Hear Podcast. Through the 20th century, there was always some group of musicians who had that “day job” status – playing for corporate functions, teaching people to instrumental skills, and being the faceless people providing the grooves and melodies behind your favourite records. Remember the shock you felt realising that the Beach Boys weren't playing their own instruments on Pet Sounds? Or The Monkees? The collective of Los Angeles session musicians who became known as The Wrecking Crew (via drummer Hal Blaine's autobiography) provided the music for tons of songs that music fans consider pop pantheon. There were other collectives of course – Motown had the Funk Brothers, Stax had Booker T and the MGs, and there were the collectives in Muscle Shoals and Nashville. Film maker Denny Tedesco is the son of Wrecking Crew guitarist, Tommy Tedesco. In the mid 90s, Denny started making a documentary that took nearly 20 years to make. Financing for licensing rights was a big part of that duration, but in the end, he created a wonderful film that opens a window to the world of that period of time when Sonny and Cher, Frank Sinatra, The Mamas and the Papas, The Ronettes, and The Beach Boys all had one thing in common – The Wrecking Crew. Even if the general public had no idea who Carol Kaye, Hal Blaine, Tommy Tedesco, Earl Palmer or Plas Johnson were, the “name” artists certainly did and revered their work. For episode 110, Tim, Kerry and myself discussed Denny's documentary as well as our own favourite records from that period, the difference between WC and other famous session groups, British session musicians, social context, and economics. Tim also has an interesting spin on why session musicians may not feel the need to brag about their work……. If you want to catch up on the film, it's currently available on Beamafilm, Prime and (in October / November 2023) SBS On Demand. Very excitingly, we will be having Denny Tedesco on See Hear in early 2024 to talk about his new film The Immediate Family about another group of LA session musicians from the 70s. If you've been enjoying the show, please consider giving us a favourable review on iTunes and let your friends know that our show exists. If you don't enjoy the show, tell your adversaries to tune in. We don't care who listens..... See Hear is proudly part of the Pantheon Network of music podcasts. Check out all the other wonderful shows at http://pantheonpodcasts.com. Send us feedback via email at seehearpodcast@gmail.com Join the Facebook group at http://facebook.com/groups/seehearpodcast Check out the Instagram page at www.instagram.com/seehearpodcast/?hl=en You can download the show by searching for See Hear on whatever podcast app you favour. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most working people have that day gig – accountant, engineer, admin, hospitality. The job pays the bills and puts food on the table. We don't tend to think of being a musician as a day job category. Welcome to episode 110 of See Hear Podcast. Through the 20th century, there was always some group of musicians who had that “day job” status – playing for corporate functions, teaching people to instrumental skills, and being the faceless people providing the grooves and melodies behind your favourite records. Remember the shock you felt realising that the Beach Boys weren't playing their own instruments on Pet Sounds? Or The Monkees? The collective of Los Angeles session musicians who became known as The Wrecking Crew (via drummer Hal Blaine's autobiography) provided the music for tons of songs that music fans consider pop pantheon. There were other collectives of course – Motown had the Funk Brothers, Stax had Booker T and the MGs, and there were the collectives in Muscle Shoals and Nashville. Film maker Denny Tedesco is the son of Wrecking Crew guitarist, Tommy Tedesco. In the mid 90s, Denny started making a documentary that took nearly 20 years to make. Financing for licensing rights was a big part of that duration, but in the end, he created a wonderful film that opens a window to the world of that period of time when Sonny and Cher, Frank Sinatra, The Mamas and the Papas, The Ronettes, and The Beach Boys all had one thing in common – The Wrecking Crew. Even if the general public had no idea who Carol Kaye, Hal Blaine, Tommy Tedesco, Earl Palmer or Plas Johnson were, the “name” artists certainly did and revered their work. For episode 110, Tim, Kerry and myself discussed Denny's documentary as well as our own favourite records from that period, the difference between WC and other famous session groups, British session musicians, social context, and economics. Tim also has an interesting spin on why session musicians may not feel the need to brag about their work……. If you want to catch up on the film, it's currently available on Beamafilm, Prime and (in October / November 2023) SBS On Demand. Very excitingly, we will be having Denny Tedesco on See Hear in early 2024 to talk about his new film The Immediate Family about another group of LA session musicians from the 70s. If you've been enjoying the show, please consider giving us a favourable review on iTunes and let your friends know that our show exists. If you don't enjoy the show, tell your adversaries to tune in. We don't care who listens..... See Hear is proudly part of the Pantheon Network of music podcasts. Check out all the other wonderful shows at http://pantheonpodcasts.com. Send us feedback via email at seehearpodcast@gmail.com Join the Facebook group at http://facebook.com/groups/seehearpodcast Check out the Instagram page at www.instagram.com/seehearpodcast/?hl=en You can download the show by searching for See Hear on whatever podcast app you favour. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Steve and Cat talk about the problems with the US Soccer Teams and MLS. Will it ever really rain as an American sport? One Awesome lady this week is bassist Carol Kaye. Shot of the week is the Angry Badger Shot.

Decided it was worth pulling from my small stack of 10-inch size jazz vinyl for a variety of jazz cuts and styles. Enjoy! Tracklist: Nicola Conte, Cal Tjader, Music De Wolfe, Amanda Whiting, Jancsi Korossy, Johnny-Cretu Raducanu, Langston Hughes, Carol Kaye, Greg Foat, Randy Weston Trio

Season 3 has been one hell of a ride with special guests like Carol Kaye, Tommy Putnam, Clare Cunningham, and industry pro's like Nate and Donna of "Syncology". In our final episode of Season 3, I thought it would be important to bring in members of the team, and ecosystem to discuss some of the challenges that women face in the industry. It is changing, some for the better, and some not so much. If anything can be learned here, it's that trusting your gut, and building the right ecosystem around you is crucial for making it in today's music industry. Tracee Perrin https://www.traceeperrinmusic.com/ Paradox Jukebox  ⁠LinkTree⁠ ⁠Patreon ⁠ ⁠Merch Store⁠ Music On The Move Studios Links: www.musiconthemovestudios.com https://www.instagram.com/musiconthemovestudios https://m.facebook.com/motmstudios Theme Song Credit: "Shakin' In My Boots" By Erin McLendon Reach Out At: info@musiconthemovestudios.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/paradoxjukebox/message

With a career spanning over 60 years and 10,000 session recordings, including the Mission Impossible theme and the Pet Sounds album, Wrecking Crew member Carol Kaye may just be the bassist whose work you've heard the most. So why isn't she inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Join us as Mary gives an overview of Carol's career, the Musical Excellence category, and the Rock Hall's continued appalling treatment of women.

Песента е описана като съвместно дело на цялата група, но истината е по-различна. В началото на 1966 година почти никой не познава „The Doors“ („Дъ Дорс“). Бандата е на няколко месеца и има малко фенове в Лос Анджелис. „Light My Fire“ (в превод „Запали ми огъня“) е песента, дала известност на групата. През тези първи месеци основен автор на песните е вокалистът Jim Morrison (Джим Морисън). Един ден групата открива, че вече няма мелодии и Морисън приканва и останалите да напишат по нещо, за да не свирят кавъри пред публиката. Китаристът Robby Krieger (Роби Крийгър) го пита за какво да пише, а той му отговаря: Пиши за нещо универсално. Нещо, което няма да изчезне след две години. Нещо, което хората могат сами да интерпретират.“ Едва двадесетгодишният тогава Крийгър се прибира в дома на родителите си в Пасифик Палисейдс, Лос Анджелис, и решава да пише за някой от четирите елемента - огън, вода, земя, въздух. Избира огъня, вдъхновен от „Play With Fire“ (Игра с огъня) на „The Rolling Stones“. Огънят стопля, но и изгаря. Това е метафора как градивната любов може да се превърне в унищожителна страст. След куплет в стил фолкрок, песента се развива стихийно. Същата вечер Крийгър е готов с идеята си. За музиката е вдъхновен от хита на Jimi Hendrix (Джими Хендрикс) „Hey Joe“. На следващата им репетиция Крийгър представя новата композиция. Барабанистът John Densmore (Джон Денсмор) предлага куплетите да са с латино ритъм, а Морисън дописва текста, добавяйки и елемент за погребална клада (funeral pyre). Крийгър е против такава препратка към смъртта, но това е любима тема на Морисън и той държи на нея. Така вторият куплет става еталон за поетичния талант на Морисън. Крийгър предлага последната реплика да е „Come on baby light my fire.“ („Хайде, скъпа, запали ми огъня.“). Но Морисън настоява за по-поетичното и провокативно „Try to set the night on fire.“ (Да опитаме да запалим нощта.). По-късно Крийгър открива, че цитатът е от стихотворение на Морисън от тетрадка, писана в ученическите му години. Четвъртият в групата Ray Manzarek (Рей Манзарек), свирещ на клавишни, предлага началото, повлияно от фугите на Йохан Себастиан Бах, което усъвършенства в месеците след това. Органът му „Вокс Континентал“ е същият вид, какъвто ползва Alan Price (Алън Прайс) в „The House Of The Rising Sun“ на „The Animals“, за която вече сме говорили. Продуцентът Paul A. Rothchild (Пол А. Родшийлд) предлага началото да стане и финал. Солото по средата е чиста импровизация, каквито много са обичали да правят, докато свирят в популярния холивудски клуб „Whisky a Go Go“. По-късно Крийгър се дразни от това колко малко се знае, че той е основен автор на песента. Дотогава всяка от песните на групата е била конструирана върху три акорда, а на него му се е искало да направи нещо по-разчупено. През април „The Doors“ вече изпълняват „Light My Fire“ в концерти, разширявайки я постепенно с импровизации. В това им помага и познаването от Крийгър на фламенко стила и лекото му приплъзване по струните на китарата „Gibson SG“. Използват модерната за жанра полиритмия. При нея ударните и солото са в два различни ритъма, застъпващи се на определени интервали. А Манзарек свири в концертите с лява ръка на „Fender Rhodes“, а с дясната солира на органа. При студийната версия продуцентът Пол. А. Родшийлд) привиква басиста Larry Knechtel (Лари Кнехтел) да дублира бас линията върху тази на клавишните. Има предположения, че баскитарата е изсвирена от Carol Kaye (Каръл Кей), основани на нейни думи, но те не са потвърдени. Песента е записана през август 1966 година в „Sunset Sound Studios“ в Холивуд, Лос Анджелис, Калифорния. Тя е над седем минути, а средищната част от над четири минути е от сола на Манзарек - на органа и Крийгър - на китарата. Концертните версии понякога са по 14 минути. Това е смятаната за първа рок песен с инструментална част от електрическа китара и клавишни. Жанрът на „Light My Fire“ е психеделичен рок, но това не изчерпва стила на „The Doors“.

It's the end of the road for an Emmy- and Golden Globe-winning comedy series. “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel” is back for its fifth and final season, with episodes dropping weekly starting April 14 on Amazon Prime Video.  For this episode of Streamed & Screened, hosts Bruce Miller and Terry Lipshetz, provide a (mostly) spoiler-free analysis of the the program, which is a favorite of both. Also hear from the stars, including clips from Rachel Brosnahan (Miriam "Midge" Maisel), Alex Borstein (Susie Myerson), Tony Shalhoub (Abraham "Abe" Weissman) and Kevin Pollak (Moishe Maisel) who reflect on the characters, the series and whether we might see them all reprise their roles in the future as part of a feature-length movie. Bruce also has an interview with Michael Zegen, who plays Midge's ex-husband Joel Maisel, who offers thoughts of his own on the program. Whether you're a longtime fan of the show or looking for an introduction before you binge the whole thing over a long weekend, you'll want to give this episode a listen. About the show Read more: REVIEW: 'Mrs. Maisel' ends with marvelous update Where to watch: Amazon Prime Video Cast: Rachel Brosnahan as Miriam "Midge" Maisel Alex Borstein as Susie Myerson Michael Zegen as Joel Maisel Marin Hinkle as Rose Weissman Tony Shalhoub as Abraham "Abe" Weissman Kevin Pollak as Moishe Maisel Caroline Aaron as Shirley Maisel Luke Kirby as Lenny Bruce Jane Lynch as Sophie Lennon Created by: Amy Sherman-Palladino Executive producers: Amy Sherman-Palladino, Daniel Palladino Producers: Dhana Gilbert, Matthew Shapiro, Salvatore Carino, Sheila Lawrence About the show Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin. Episode transcript Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically: A lot of young women trying standup comedy for the first time, which is so awesome and long overdue. It's been incredible to hear how his legacy has already affected people, and I'm really excited to see how she lives on. That voice you just heard was Rachel Brosnahan, who stars as Miriam ‘Midge' Maisel in ‘The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel' I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee Enterprises and a co-host of Streamed and Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV. Joining me, as always, is the incomparable Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is back for its fifth and final season with episodes dropping weekly starting April 14th on Amazon Prime Video. Bruce It will be an end of an era for one of the most popular shows on that platform. Certainly big shoes to fill. First of all, why was it not the marvelous Bruce Miller? This is now this is how this should be. This is how he introduced me. Right. It's interesting because this is a show that I think people lost track of because of the big gaps between seasons. Was it over? Is it over? And when they see this fifth season and I've seen the whole thing, they will go, Oh my God, there's so much in that fifth season because they do a lot of time jumps. So you're not going to just see one season, one year play out. It goes into the future and you find out things about her children. You find out things about her husband, her ex-husband, her friends, Susie. All of those people come into play at some point. And so it flashes back and forth and it's I think it pays. It rewards the people who have been loyal. And you get to see a lot of fun. So there is and I you know, I'm really I should say nothing. But there is one kind of cute thing where they're showing, you know, did she have a lot of dresses? And they show the racks of her clothes all. My God, what is this? She did have it because I don't think she ever wore anything twice. No, I don't remember it. And you also, I think, see growth in Mrs. Maysles comedy career, how she's able to tell, you know, I always thought, is she making this crap up on the fly? And every night, is she not writing this down so that she can, you know, retell it at another place? It seemed like every every routine she did was just of the moment. And you see how she does all that. And there is a scene in the last episode that is on Be Livable, and that's as much as I can tell you on the spoiler end of things. But okay, no spoilers. You know, when you first watched it, what surprised you most about it? For me personally, I was sucked in because I'm a native of New York City, okay? And for me, my wife is from just outside of Green Bay, Wisconsin. And it's been an interesting ride because she's she's Catholic. I was raised Catholic, but my dad was Jewish. But for me, it's kind of seeing that cultural the cultural phenomenon of New York, the Jewish culture, even though I'm I didn't grow up in the fifties or sixties, I was born in the mid seventies, but for me I could relate to it. And I thought that they kept this show like it's fiction, but it's also really easy. And I think it was that reality that kind of kept bringing me back. So a couple of things, if you don't mind me throwing these out, because we're going to be talking a lot about I mean, we're basically going to just talk about the show with Mrs. Basil. Yes, this is the Mrs. Maisel episode. So first off, the beauty of streaming is if you have not watched this show yet, just go back and watch it. You know, go get Amazon Prime if you don't have it already and start cranking through them. My wife and I didn't start this until the 2020 lockdown. There was already in between season three and seven season for that really long gap they were talking about. But we had nothing to watch during it. So we're kind of crushing through Netflix and Hulu and anything we could find. And we hopped into Mrs. Maisel and for some reason I didn't know much about it at the time. I was saying, What is this like some superhero thing? Because it kind of played with some of those Marvel titles that you hear. But it's a it's a comedy. It takes place, I guess, you know, like late 1950s, early 1960s. Rachael Brosnahan plays Miriam Midge Maisel. She's a housewife with very strong Jewish personalities in her life. Between her her husband and her parents and her in-laws. Alex Borstein plays Susie Myerson. She manages The Gaslight Cafe. Becomes a manager. She wants to be a manager. She's there. Michael Zegen is Joel Maseil while her husband and there's a Tony Shalhoub is in it as her father. There's a lot of actors you will know. Kevin Pollak is her father in law. It was a Jane. Lynch turned up as. Jane Lynch. Yeah. So it's it's an awesome ensemble cast. So and it's also a lot of reality. So Luke Kirby plays Lenny. Bruce. Right? So he's a real person, very controversial comic of the time, but becomes Midge's friend over time and helps guide her career. Midge Maisel, a fictional character, but she's based on Joan Rivers, who had a relationship with Lenny Bruce and started at the Gaslight Cafe, which was a real location. It's where, if you've ever heard of a musician named Bob Dylan, you've heard of Bob Dylan before.Bruce Never heard of him. Never heard of him. So he was a young man. Robert Zimmerman out of Hibbing, Minnesota. Probably did. Well, is he did. He did well. So he came to New York City and was kind of brought under the wing of a folk singer named Dave Van Ronk, who is who is the mayor of MacDougal Street down in the village of New York City. They performed at the Gaslight. This is a real location. So it's the beauty of this show is, you know, you're getting a little bit of a history lesson of the time and it but it's still a fictional comedy. It's hilarious. I love it. It's very you know, some of it is kind of on the surface kind of comedy and you pick it up really quick. But some of it's very deep, too, and it kind of gets into, you know, the place of women at the time in the 1950s and, you know, kind of being you're the housewife. Take care of the kids. Joel wants to be the comic. He's the one that's going to be the comedian. And of course, the tables get turned. But yeah, you're right. I mean, with the dresses, even as the show progresses and, you know, she's short on cash, sometimes it's like, how can you afford this apartment? Where are all these dresses coming from? It's ridiculous. The clothing budget does not suffer. She will always have a great outfit. What I find fascinating was each year it got bigger. You know, you start out and it's kind of like, Oh, this is doing a period show is expensive. And they didn't. They just threw it out there. They went to a summer camp, you know, and that can't be easy to recreate, particularly of that era. Then they go to a USO show, which is huge in an airplane hangar. They go to Paris, for God's sakes. This season, you're going to see them in New York and you're going to see a lot of landmarks in New York, particularly Rockefeller Center, which they use like a drum. They are around that building all the time. So that's that's fascinating to see. And the cast, there are so many people over those four seasons that get a return visit in the fifth. So it's it's kind of like a reunion. And you go, Oh my God, That was from remember when they did that? And she was in that. And then there's also a bit of, Oh, how can I how can I say this without saying this? It reminds you of if you saw my favorite year, if you saw laughter on the 23rd floor, if you saw any of those kind of looks at what Sid Caesar, Imogene Coca, Carl Reiner and Howard Morris did during the early days of television. With your show of shows, there are references to those kinds of things, so you get a real sense of the time. I think you really get to see what the fifties and sixties were like. There's a sort of Johnny Carson character. They mentioned Jack Paar in the course of the the series. What I love are these time jumps where you find out exactly what happened to Mrs. Maisel. What did she fizzle out and become? Nothing. Did she come a big star? Was she like Joan Rivers? You know, that is an easy comparison. But there were other female comics of the time, Tony Fields, if you remember that name. I don't know if it moms Mabley, these were all ones who were working that Phyllis Diller. And they kind of had to be aggressive in their approach to comedy because otherwise they were going to just be bulldozed over. And I think that's what you get out of out of Midge, is that she is not going to take no, but she is going to get knocked down. I can't wait to dive into this. It's exciting. I always love those just the characters. They even if they're playing such a really small role, it feels like they're playing a much larger role than it actually turns out to be. There are little in this one, you know. I don't know if you ever remember those kind of industrial shows that used to be big in New York, where it would be like, Oh, soap or whatever. And they do a huge thing for all of their their corporate people around the country. They'd come in for a day or whatever a weekend, and they do an industrial show, which we are. A lot of Broadway people would get on stage and sing the praises of, you know, Lox or whatever it might have been, or a new car. And they did these elaborate stage shows and fact there's a documentary out about them that is just fascinating because it's a world we don't know. We weren't in that industry. We weren't in that that thing. But people made a lot of money off that writing those shows. And you get a sense of that as well. There's a big convention of sorts that that Midge happens to be involved in. So you get another you know, it's this history lesson that you're getting a lot of stuff, even though it's not a real person. You know, if she were real, I think you'd look at it differently. You would say, Oh, well, you've got to have this moment. You've got to have that, and you really don't know what could happen. And Joel does not get shortchanged either. You know, I thought that maybe he would kind of just disappear as the years go by. And he has a very, very strong presence in the final season. That's great. I always loved his character. I always was afraid that as the ex-husband, estranged husband, he might just kind of slowly walk out of the show. And in the fact that not only has he remained at the forefront and kind of done his own thing, too, he's found his place and kind of escaped the shadow of his very overbearing parents. But the fact that he's still in it and that his parents are still in it just really makes the whole program him. And they do interweave those things, too, you know, that he was building a club. He was trying to get a club off the ground. And you'll see more of that in the next season. And his parents are big players with Mrs. Maysles parents. Interestingly, I don't think you see enough of Tony Shalhoub. I think he has a very secondary presence in in this year's show, and that's surprising because he won an Emmy for it, and I would have thought they would have leaned in a little more, maybe he just wasn't available to do a lot more. That's interesting. I also wonder, too, if it's is it part of character development, too, where they they want to highlight certain characters each season kind of give them because he did seem to have a very prominent role last year. When he was doing The Village Voice and he's a critic. And now he's getting the reaction to what life is like as a critic, which is I think, just fascinating. That's your favorite part, isn't it? Yeah, that's the cool part. Yeah. I lean into the critic aspect. I don't do I care about the comic? I don't know if I do, but I do care about the critic. You know, you talk a little bit about the characters and the reality and whatnot. One of my favorite things from the series and this is because, you know, and we've talked about this my my fan of of I'm such a huge fan of music. I have a very large record collection and just I feel like I have a pretty solid knowledge and I'm watching I think it was season it was season three when Midge was out on tour, was Shy Baldwin. Right. So she was doing comedy to open up for his big band performance. So he was performing. He had that ensemble band behind him. There was the one character who kind of became her friend of sorts. Carol Keane, who is a fictional musician. However, she was based on a real person. She played. Carol Kaye, if you at all familiar with her, is a legendary bassist, and she's part of what's known as The Wrecking Crew. The Wrecking Crew in the 1960s was this group of musicians that would come in and they were studio musicians. So you would have performers who weren't necessarily the best bands. They would go out live. But when it came to actually recording the albums, the producers were like, Let's you guys are in quite good enough. And it was even the Beach Boys, like the Beach Boys, didn't perform their own instruments in the studio. In a lot of cases. It was a lot of times it was The Wrecking Crew. So Carol Kaye, the real person was the basis to put down the bass line. That famous bass line in In These Boots by Nancy Sinatra. The bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. So that was Carol Kaye and the fictional character in Mrs. May's All, who is also the bassist in the band and a befriended Midge and that season. So that was for me, another piece that I just really love about this. That's where rewards you for being astute in other areas, correct? If you if you know things like if you you know, if you don't if you don't know these things, that's that's totally fine. You're just going to be entertained for for an hour or however long the episode is. But if you if you're familiar with pop culture in any way, you don't need to just know the real people like Lenny Bruce. But it's knowing little things like The Gaslight Cafe. Carol Kaye, These types of people, you know, they are based on actual folks, even if it's just very loosely. Yeah, it's fun to see who they might be. You know, Sophie Lennon, Who is she referring to? Who is she trying to be that you would know as a fellow comedian? You know, is she somebody that or is she just whole cloth, a fresh character? And that's I think that's kind of picking the brain of Amy Sherman Palladino, the creator of this show. If you know her from Gilmore Girls, you know that she loves dance scripts, she loves the idea that there's there are more words there than really you need to do a half hour or 45 minutes of a show, but she packs it and I would assume it would be very difficult to to learn all those lines, particularly when she wants that kind of rapid fire way of talking. And that's how she is. She's just like that. She usually wears a hat, too. She loves wearing hats. She's short. She's not unlike Susie. I would assume that a lot of Susie's personality comes from Amy, and her husband. Daniel is also a producer on the show, and he writes as well. So they're they're kind of in sync with what this mindset is all about. And I'm sure she had a grand plan as to where she was going to take this whole thing. Now, you can easily see that they might have gone seven or eight years with this, but I think the idea of cutting it off now opens up other opportunities like a movie. And I think for them, let's let's try and make the fifth season as packed as we can and then we can go on and do those other things and not have to worry about time limitations or we've got to meet a deadline to get this on the air by a certain time because it's it's expensive. It is hugely expensive. Bruce, I don't think you know this, but you have just set up the perfect segue way into, oh, wow, some audio here. So we already heard from Rachel. Now we're going to hear from Tony Shalhoub, who plays Midge's father. He talks about how they didn't know how long this series was going to go, but felt that both Amy Sherman-Palladino and Dan Palladino were able to wrap up the story perfectly the way it was supposed to be. So let's let's cut ahead to that clip. From what I understand, even though we didn't know how many seasons it may go or may not go, Amy and Dan always had, they always had the final scene in their heads. They always they didn't know exactly how we were going to get there, but they knew where we were going to land and then I think we all by osmosis, we all felt that cool. All right, so that was Tony Shalhoub. Bruce, does that sound accurate, like what he's talking about? Does it feel like the series wraps up perfectly? I think it does for me it did anyway. And I thought, like I say, the last episode is one you can't miss because it's and I, I cheated, all right? Because I was afraid I was doing an interview and I thought I better see the end just in case this character is dead. I don't want to end up asking, Well, like, you know, what about those later years are, well, I'm dead, so I won't be in those later years. But that wasn't the case. There wasn't anything. But I did watch the last episode before I finished off the other ones before it, and the last episode is a great example of standalone television. You could take that episode out, not see any of the rest of the series, and you would still get a really good sense of a story. It's like a little mini movie in itself, and it's interesting how they all are able to get friends in. There is a roast at one point that has a lot of comedians that you know, are friends of a lot of the actors that are in the shows. And there are ties. I think Rachel's husband is a character in the show. There are people that are all people who've been on Gilmore Girls, people who've been on Bunheads, people who have been, if you will, loyal over the years. And they repay that loyalty by giving them a shot in this last season. I mean, it's remarkable. If I sat and made a list of all the people that I saw, I, you know, a character that they introduced last season played by Gideon Glick, he's this magician and kind of an offbeat magician. And you go, What is this? I love that character. And he returns this season and he has a lot of really goofy things. He's afraid of flying. So that's a fear factor. And there there is a picture that you'll see out there somewhere that is JFK, the the airport. So you'll be able to see what that looks like inside. And it's just fascinating to see these characters. The last time I saw it was Catch Me if you can, and just to look at that and now there's a hotel there that you can stay at there. It's very commercial where you could go and actually do tourism things there. But it is featured in this season. Again, huge, huge landmarks that they're using in New York. I think it's fascinating to to realize that somebody didn't say no. Nobody was saying them, No, you can't do that. We can't afford to do that. It's like I'm sure she dreamed it. And very much like Susie, where she's not going to let somebody else tell her no, she's just going to keep going ahead and doing it. And I think that's in a nutshell. Amy. Amy Palladino I can't remember the timing of this. Was the JFK airport at the time, or was it still Idlewild? Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was, but as I know it is. I know I always wondered because it transitioned. It was not named. No, it was not named JFK because, you know, and interestingly, I don't remember that they've even mentioned that Kennedy has died at that point. But you'll see the eighties, you'll see the nineties, you'll see the seventies, you'll see various different time frames over the course of the of the of the episodes. Wow. So another character that was mentioned and we talked briefly about her was that of Alex Borstein. She plays Susie Myerson. You know, you had mentioned the connection with her to Amy Sherman-Palladino and whether it's the connection there. But we have a we have a clip of her also. Now, if you're familiar with her, she's also the voice of Lois on Family Guy. She's a comedian. She's been around for a really long time. But I think this is kind of like probably her biggest breakthrough screen role that I can think of on screen role. So we have a short clip of her talking about her relationship with Midge. So let's go to that. For a bit. Like Mutton, Jeff, It makes no sense. And yet there's just this chemistry. There's something that draws these women together and they've got each other's backs and it's not about finding a mate. It's about achieving something in their lives that they want. It's about filling a hole within and they complete each other. All right, Bruce So that was Alex Borstein talking about the relationship that Susie and Midge have. Is that connection? Because that was always one of my favorite things was the interactions between Midge and Susie and kind of the weird polar opposites that they are, but they have this great presence on screen together. Do we get more of that in this first season? We do. And you also get fighting. And that's as much as I can say about that. You know how they it's like on a soap opera where they love to put people together and then they like to tear them apart. And I think this falls into that. You know, there's there's a reason for them to be at each other's throats and maybe they both don't pay attention enough to what the needs are of the other person. But you see how how Susie is just giving her life for this person that maybe she might be a little too protected. You know, Mitch can Mitch has the ability to go and do this because she has her parents to fall back on if she really needs them. Her husband, her ex-husband is still there in the picture for her. She doesn't have that kind of if I don't do this, I don't know what will happen to my life. There is a safety net for her, and we've seen that over the years where she's taken jobs at other places and done other things and she gets a new job this year. And that's a safety net of sorts, too. But there's always this comedy where Susie has nothing. Susie is like she's all in and she will do whatever she needs to do to further the career of her client. Hopefully there will be more clients, but you know, you look at it and you say, Oh my God, she's just doing all this for one person. Is that friendship? Is that is that, you know, just survival? Is it? She's enamored with her. What is the what is the deal for her and why is she doing this? And you get answers to all of that stuff. It's just it's really fascinating. I remember when they went to the to the Catskills and they were staying there and I think she had a hammer or something. And she was like trying to do things with the hammer. And you go, Oh my God, this is unreal. And she's always treated like dirt by everybody. Everybody sees her as like their batboy for anything that goes wrong. Susie, we're going to go to you. Yeah, She said that season at the Catskills was just incredible. I mean, they basically took it was pretty much the entire season was more or less on location up there. And you still had to work her in somehow. And she obviously she doesn't dress like somebody that belongs there. So she just walked around with that hammer and like, I think a plunger, too, just looking like a maintenance worker and nobody would question it because that's what she did. But that relationship, you know, even though we're we're avoiding spoilers for season five, we had that adversarial give and take relationship between them throughout all the seasons. Because you're right, she didn't have anybody. Susie doesn't have anybody to fall back on, so she has to make a living, which meant at times taking on other clients. You know, she didn't want to be Sophie Lemon's manager, but she needed the money and then kind of had to deal with that abuse as well as the abuse of of Midge, who couldn't believe that she would support Sophie Lennon, who is her her nemesis. Right. Yeah. So, you know, that that to me has been just a great, you know, relationship. But it always comes back to when they meet in the diner, which is such an iconic New York thing. Like, I just love I miss diners so much. Bruce Living in Wisconsin, there's no diners out here. People who think there's diners out here, there is no diners out here that is. Have a drive thru with it, too, right? But it's such a it's just such a new York, New Jersey, East Coast cultural thing where you go to a diner and you get that triple decker club sandwich or the pastrami or whatever it is and a pile of food. You come all the other way, it's on you. Who knows everybody's order. Yeah. You know, you get that big pickle spear which probably sits on every plate, and they just move it from plate to plate so I don't touch it. The end. They do. Go back to the diner. You'll be seeing that and you'll be seeing various and sundry combinations of people talking. So it's a it's a key place. And like I say, these sets that they build the apartments, the business places they go to, it's unbelievable. I don't know how I would love to see what the budget was for this because it had to be huge because it looks good. And I there's a thing and there's this coming season where they mention something as a giveaway, okay? And I thought, oh no, that it's it's wrong. It's not the same time. And I had to look it up to make sure that that was within that time span. It was exactly in that time span. You know how you would say I like a yo I don't want to see what it is because again, this is one of those things. But if it was a yo yo and you say, well, yo, yo, what year was a Rubik's cube? That would be one a Rubik's Cube. Why are they giving away Rubik's cubes? They weren't available in 62 or 61 were they. I don't I think they didn't come until the seventies, but that's not yet. But there is another thing like that. And damn, if they didn't nail it. And I looked it up and it was exactly right, it it fit with the time frame. You'll see stuff like that that it just you want to play gotcha with them and they, they already know they're much better than we are at vetting these kinds of things. Yeah, they, they're really good. It's just nailing history. It is a history. Even though it is fiction, it is a history lesson throughout pop culture, history lesson. Were there characters that you really like that maybe aren't around or have, you know, dropped in for an episode or two? Well, you know, the Carol K one was one that I really liked. The magician that was in there in season four when Midge was working at that theater. And, you know, it's kind of the adult content. It's not quite a strip club, but it's that kind of like a doll that the manager of that club was. It's just a lot of those little characters like that. I really love the characters that I really felt a personal connection to, and we'll kind of kind of move this forward too, with some some clips that we have coming up. So we have Michael Zegen, who plays Joel Maze, all his parents. Kevin Pollack plays Moisi Maisel, his father, and then Caroline Aaron plays Shirley Mays or his mother. So I had mentioned earlier that that my mom was Catholic, my dad is Jewish. His parents, um, his mother died. My, my paternal grandmother died. I was probably about 15 years old when she passed away. She wasn't a very devout Jewish person. My grandfather was he was it could be. Yes, it was. That was probably about it. My grandfather was always a little bit more religious. And then after my grandmother died, he got remarried a year or two later is very quick. And the woman that he married, her name was Mildred. We all called her Millie and they became very devout again. He would go to temple. They kept kosher, but but Millie had a very unique personality. So when the show started and I started watching it, and when Joel's parents were finally introduced and Shirley Hazel comes on screen, I turned to my wife immediately and I'm like, Oh my goodness, that is Millie. That's Bella. Is Millie. Looks like Millie. Sounds like Millie. Acts like Millie. This is not like you can think that that there's there's acting here and we're over the top and there's no way people could be like this in real life. Surely Basil is Millie or Millie was Shirley. Mabel, whichever reality. So it to me there was just that personal connection that that strong, very strong personality with her. And in the father, I would I don't think my grandfather was any way like my she they had certain crossovers but you know Shirley and Millie were two peas in a pod. Shirley is a big fan of pop culture, and she knows all the names that Midge might throw out there. She has like she could give you an encyclopedia about the person, and she's so excited about everything. And of course, when Midge invites them to come to various and sundry things, oh, she's right there. She's ready to come. Whereas her own mother is like, well, this interrupt with what I'm doing. I don't know if I want to come and see you perform in front row is always Shirley. Shirley is there. She's all, This is wonderful. You're doing a great job. I love you, you're great. And you'll see they do a lot with them during this next year, so you'll enjoy that. I'm looking forward to that because that interaction with them and in some ways to my my maternal grandparents who were Catholic, they never interacted that often with each other. But there is always a very strange relationship between like my mom and her parents and my dad and his parents when they would interact. It was very I don't know if his adversarial is quite the way, but culturally very different. And I kind of get that with this show, like like Midge and her parents were very much one way, and Joel and his parents are very much another. And there is that that onscreen dynamic that I just love. And it kind of clicks with me a bit. Yeah, and they're together a lot. The four of them do a lot of things together. You'll be you'll be thrilled. You know, speaking of Moisi, Mazal, we do have one more clip of Kevin Pollak, and he's talking a little bit about the future of Mrs. Maisel. So let's go to that. Yeah, we're not going to ever say goodbye. And I predict now for you, in 4.3 years we'll be here talking about the amazing movie. There I said it. Kevin Pollak leaves a little bit of that door open. Could we see Mrs. May's old movie? I think it's the door has been cracked. Look, the way they need content these days and you know that it'd be an Amazon film in a minute. And, you know, so they put it in theaters. They could get a lot of attention for it. And then you just put it on streaming again. I think we've seen the model for all of this. And like I said, it would help pay the bills for all that expensive stuff that they're using because it looks like a Cinemascope film. It's shot. Well, it has great I mean, the scoring, they created original songs for this. Now, really for a half hour you're going to do that. And the sets, the costumes, the whole and, you know, the first season they won a lot of Emmys for those kind of below the line things. And I think this year they're going to be well rewarded for what they've done because it is so vast and so unbelievable. But, you know, it did not go unnoticed by the actors. I think they believe that they landed into a great situation. And I don't think it was by chance either that they were selected. I think these people, they knew who were the hard workers, they knew who the ones that would deliver for them. And it it it seems like it's a brutal show to do because it isn't just getting up and saying a line against somebody. You know, what's interesting is you'll see a little a clip of a TV show that stars Hank Azaria and Sutton Foster within the show. It looks it has a bit of Dick Van Dike to the quality of it. And Sutton Foster kind of seems like a mary Tyler Moore. And you think the idea that they would write this script for a show within a show that really isn't seen that much, you get a couple of lines out of it. And, you know, they did you know, they probably wrote the whole script or this sitcom that they were trying to reference in some way. And it's done in black and white. And you get all of that that kind of little homage. But clearly they are fans of the medium. They are ones who want to make sure that it comes across and you do get that sense of what the time was like. You know, it was not easy being a female comedian in New York, Hollywood, wherever. And I don't I think now it just seems too easy because we see comedians all over the place, you know, doing a one hour special on Netflix. But the idea that somebody would have had that or got that an unreal, unreal. And if I was able to interview Joan Rivers Times and she net, you know, as much as she was kind of oh what's the term I want to use not boisterous but she was you know, she seemed like a very like she would just tell it like it is and not worry about the consequences. That was not Joan. It was a character that she was portraying. She was the most loving, wonderful person who would would take you under her arms and just treat you like a friend. And that's the I think that's the same kind of disconnect you get here with Mrs. Maisel. She is two different people, but I can see easily that she is the the Joan Rivers is the template for Mrs. Maisel, even though their lives are much different. They don't they don't wind up the same way. They don't have the same dynamics. There aren't the same, you know, cards being played. But there is that kind of idea that I'm alone. I really am alone in this venture and I've got to do what I want to. Another series that it kind of seems similar to is Hacks, because you see Jean Smart showing what a comedian's like after the big days are over and how does she keep that going? And there's a glimpse of that with this fascinating because I think I think Joan Rivers is the mothership for all these kinds of things because of what she did do and the idea that look at Joan went to QVC and sold crap just to make money, you know, and what she had to do, she alienated Johnny Carson at one point and then she had her own show. But the one thing that she valued most was The Tonight Show. And there was no way they were going to let her back on with that because she had, you know, went as she had. She'd gone against the master and she wasn't sorry enough for Johnny to make this really work. And I think that was a big failing in Joan's life, is that she felt that somehow that relationship was not really repaired and she never got The Tonight Show. She didn't get things she wanted, but in the end, she did get a lot. And she is viewed as somebody they all look up to. You know, they say, well, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Joan Rivers. And I think that's the path that you're looking at with Mrs. Maisel as well. So with Mrs. May's all leaving Prime Well, not really leaving. It's going to be there, but but this is a big tentpole production for them. What's left for Prime. They do have a lot of shows, but I also don't find myself going to Prime very often for original programing. It feels like a weird, weird platform to me compared some of the others in some ways, maybe a little bit like Apple Tv+, which has several big productions. But when there's nothing there, you know, when you run out of something like Ted Lasso, it feels like there's a long gap until something else comes. What what's your thinking on on Prime right now? I think, though, they're doing movies and a lot of those movies will draw the attention. And so I think that's where they'll get whatever. And they also have a lot of limited series that are ten and down or eight and done. And I think that for them is a better model then a series that who knows if you know the the the suits the executives who are in power may not like that series. And there it's just like network TV. As soon as one regime is out, there's do we have support? You know, unless you're the number one show on television they'll be looking to dump. Yeah. So we've been sprinkling clips throughout this episode, which has been fun because we don't always have audio from so many different people. But we do have one more and it's a little bit more than just a 1015 second clip. We have an interview. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I got to talk to it to Michael Zegen, who plays Mr. Maisel. And it's fascinating because I was always under the impression that his job could be gone at any minute. I really thought that Joel is not necessary to this show. He was important in the first year, but would you stick around? And so we got to talk about that and what this last season was like and what, you know, what what comes next. He is working on the Penguin, which is the new I think his HBO Max series with Colin Farrell, and he's a mobster in that. And so that's an excellent he'll be doing it Fascinating. And he feels very blessed, very blessed that he was a part of this because he knows it's magic in a bottle and you don't get that many times. Michael, how is it to say goodbye to this? I would think that would be very, very difficult. It is You're you're correct in you're you're sentiments. Yeah it's it's it's definitely difficult but it's some I don't know it doesn't feel like it's ended just yet especially you know we we still have all this and we're going to France together and I you know we still have this group text chain. So it's I don't think it'll ever quite feel over over. But I, I, you know, I know the reality of it. And we're not going to be filming anymore, which is devastating. Well, the last season is so stuffed with information. I mean, there's a lot there to unpack. What was it like when you were doing it? Did you say, Oh, my God, I can't believe this happened? And that happened. And, you know, there's a lot. There is, but there's always a lot. I feel like, yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of dialog. I actually think this year the scripts, they're always long, you know and I guess in our show is is supposed to be like, you know, 55 to 60 pages, our scripts are like 90 pages to 100 pages. So they're always long. I do feel like this this season, though, they were longer than most. And the locations, I mean, you're everywhere, you're doing the years, the whole all of it. That's why I thought it seemed like an awful lot. But maybe it's let's get it done and then move on to something else. Well, the show is big. It's been big from the beginning. You know, we went to Paris in the in the second season and the Catskills and Miami. So it's it's it's always been very big. And yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stuff, but somehow it just it still flows just as nicely as ever. And it's, you know, it's still. Mazal. When it started, did you feel, oh, they're going to get rid of my character at some point. I, I was just saying this in a in a previous interview. Yeah. In the first episode when I read it, I thought that was it for Joel and I thought it was going to be a guest star. I didn't even I, I looked at the you know, I was auditioning for it. They send you the cast breakdown and it said that he was a series regular. So I was like, Oh, even better. I had no idea. I really honestly thought this is it for him. And later. But but, you know, luckily that wasn't the case. And they were able to to create this this whole journey for and this evolution for this character. And there have been so many subplots of his that he just kind of owns. That must be a real cool feeling to have them kind of right for you, if you will. Yeah, we all get our subplots. But yeah, I mean, I think Joel's is is probably, I guess the most separate from from everybody else is they all kind of I mean, look, he's still in Midge's orbit, obviously, but but I think, you know, he's probably the he's like Pluto as opposed to, you know. Tony's not Venus. Right. What were you miss about this show? Because you had such a huge cast and of really great people? Well, that's what I mean. That's in that's it in a nutshell is the cast I, I, I, I'll miss everyone terribly isn't. And really, it's not just the cast, it's the crew. It's it's you know, our writers, Amy and Dan, obviously, I I'll miss everything about this show. Literally everything. This has been the greatest experience of my life so far, you know, work wise. I don't I was just talking to Tony and Kevin Pollak and they were saying, you know, by the way, no way, you're going to top this. So, like, they felt bad for me because they they were saying they're like, you have like years and years left. We only have like three and, you know, and I'm on it. It's over for me, basically. But I mean, I don't believe that, but I do I do believe that it's going to be very hard to top something like this. Do you think it's because of the writing that made it such an iconic show or was it something else? Is it spending a lot of money and doing a lot of things, making it bigger than normal? I think that the money is certainly helps. You know, luckily we had Amazon behind us and anything really Amy and Dan wanted they got because I think, you know, Amazon loved the show just as much as we did. But what was the first part of the question? Well, did did you think that it was going to be this this big, this kind of whatever, or was it the writing that really kind of sold all of this thing? It's really everything. It's the writing. It's like I said before, the crew, I mean, we had, you know, people at the top of their game in every, you know, whether it's lighting or set design or acting. I mean, it was just the whole the whole project was just lightning in a bottle. And and I think that's that's really just what made it so special. But yeah, did I have any idea I, I didn't know that it was going to be this big. I knew people were going to like it. I liked it. So, you know, I, I think I've got pretty good taste. And, you know, my if you look at my resume like I've done really good shows before and I've done shows that people watch. But but this was this took it to a new level. And, you know, right out of the gate, we we got nominated for all these awards and we won and we won the Golden Globe, you know, And that that was like, okay, yeah, we were right. Like, this is something special. And and now, you know, then we had to top that. And you got the Emmy. So there you go. Yes, We did. Talk about, though, Amy, as a as a force. I have my views of what she'd be like. I always see her in a hat and I always think she's like, she's marshaling troops. But is it like that or what is she like on on set? She's honestly just the best. You know, you talked about the writing. It doesn't get better than that. And and honestly, like, I'm a little sore about the fact that for, you know, the past couple of years at the Emmys, she's not even nominated for writing. I mean, this is the best written show on TV, you know. Yes. There's succession. There's all these other shows. But like in terms of comedy, it doesn't get better than this. And, you know, it's so rare for me to read something, especially when I'm home alone and I laugh out loud. That doesn't happen. And that's been happening on this show from day one. The minute I read the pilot, I was I was laughing. And and so, yeah, she's she's just, you know, there's there's a level of trust involved with her that that is unparalleled that I haven't I haven't experienced with anybody else. She shows up to set. I mean she's a former dancer, you know, and she thinks like a dancer. So, so even even our background actors, a lot of them are dancers. I don't know if you know that, but it's true. A lot of them are dancers and it's it's always a dance when we're rehearsing a scene because we don't have rehearsals, like prior to showing up to set and doing the scene. We, we, we get there on the day like, you know, 530 in the morning, whatever it is, and then we start blocking it out. And sometimes they're huge scenes. But I mean, you know, she's she's obviously in charge and there's this level of trust that I'll just do anything she wants because, you know, she knows what she wants. And to have a director who knows what they want is sometimes I mean, honestly, in my experience, it's rare. So what is it like watching Rachel do stand up? I mean, Rachel can do anything. You know, she's she always talks about how nervous she is. Like, I don't buy it. Like she's she's a she can do anything. She she's that type of actor where again, it's that level of trust. Like, I mean, any time I got to work with her was a joy and all of our I think you know all of our scenes that we got to do together were always my favorite. And yeah, I mean, you know, she talks about how nervous she is, how the audiences keep growing and growing for her character. And honestly, like, that stuff doesn't faze her. She was born to perform. And, you know, I don't I don't know if she would be a standup comedian, but but I'm sure she can handle that as well if she wanted to. Hey, and you can, too. So that might be even the next step. So. Hey, thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate it. And I thank you for all those years of really great television. Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Thanks, Bruce, for that interview with Michael Zegen. What do we have on tap? Well, I'll tell you, I do. And tell me if you don't agree when you start watching this, this series by, because I think it's going to be in for a lot of Emmys, you know how they come and go. And they kind of had a down year. Never. They weren't getting nominated. And the things I think this year they're coming back with a vengeance. And I don't know how you could deny Rachel Brosnahan, the Emmy for best actress. Really? There are there is a moment there that you will go, Oh, my God, I'm glad I watch this series because it builds to this moment and it's unbelievable. And you'll, as you heard from Michael, you know, watching her was just unbelievable. But next week, we're going to talk about dead ringers. Here's another opportunity. And you wondered, where is Amazon going? Well, this is another series they've got, but it's a limited series. It's based off a movie. If you remember the movie by David Cronenberg, starring Jeremy Irons, he played brothers, twin brothers who were odd, to say the least, and they were involved in obstetrics and making all kinds of weird tools and instruments and whatnot. And they had freaky obsessions. They I mean, watch the movie. You'll see what I mean. It was one of those movies. Take me out for the longest time. Well, they've redone the movie and it's now a limited series, and it features two women as twins. Beverly and Elliot Mantle are now played by Rachel Weisz and Rachel really digs into it. She's and she has lots of fun. And you'll see a different Beverly and a different Elliot. And then it's at one point they play each other to try and dupe their friends. So it's a fascinating look at characters, but I do think they made a horrible land. I just kind of have that feeling knowing how the movie went. But that's next. We were talking to people who were involved in Dead Ringers, and that'll be coming as a limited series later this month. All right, Bruce, thanks again, as always. And tune in again next week for another episode of Streaming & Screened.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On this weeks episode we're getting into the Godmother of electric bass: Carol Kaye "On Bass."We're talking about it all, from her start, how she ended up being one of the most recorded bassist in history, and the Motown claims- one of our hosts wanted all the smoke regarding the Motown claims, and things got heated! All of that plus much more!Listen to the songs featured on today's episode here:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCliC2En6Kk6YBe0tVlURzisjJvh3CQkT **The Motown songs that Carol claimed to have played on are not in this playlist, the songs can be rightfully found in the Episode 1 playlistWhile you're here, please follow/subscribe, rate, and review. It helps us tremendously!We'd love to here from you, please send feedback and questions to Bassfortheculture@gmail.comCatch us on Instagram @bassforthculture and on Facebook| Bass For The Culture

Possibly one of the most prolific session musicians in history, Carol Kaye played on over 10 thousand songs. Between bass guitar and rhythm guitar, she became the most requested musician of the sixties. You've heard her on songs by Ritchie Valens, the Beach Boys, the Monkees, Sonny and Cher, Sam Cooke, Nancy Sinatra, the Doors, many Motown records, and a lot of other songs and even TV series or film scores! Discover her fascinating story and techniques in today's episode.

We've got stories of chart-topping trailblazers! Ritchie Valens broke cultural barriers with his musical style, and sparked the game-changing Chicano rock movement. Carol Kaye was the only woman on the famous ‘Wrecking Crew'. Always in high-demand, she laid down iconic bass tracks during 10,000 recording sessions. Sister Rosetta Tharpe crossed boundaries in sound and performance to become the Godmother of Rock and Roll, and creator of one of the very first recorded rock tracks. These three groundbreaking music makers played to the beat of their own drums and changed the tune of music history forever.Go to the episode webpage:https://jonincharacter.com/groundbreaking-music-makers/  If you liked this story about music making hidden heroes of history, you may also like Episode 8: Louis Armstrong, a man who built a music legacy and a legacy beyond music: https://jonincharacter.com/louis-armstrong/ CREDITS: This episode has been a Jonincharacter production. Today's story was written by Molly Murphy and performed by Jonathan Cormur. Sound recording and production by Jermaine Hamilton at Hamilton Studio Recordings.Support the showREACH OUT! Tweet us @dorktalesstory Email us at dorktalesstorytime@gmail DM us on IG @dorktalesstorytime Newsletter/Free Resources: https://bit.ly/dorktalesplus-signup Become a Supporter: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1267991/supporters/new Original Music Available on Bandcamp: https://dorktalesstorytime.bandcamp.com/music Now, go be the hero of your own story and we'll see you next once-upon-a-time!

Part two of our season premiere begins with Carol Kaye's thoughts on music education, and her hopes for women in the industry. Paradox Jukebox Links: Season 3 Giveaway: https://www.instagram.com/p/CoGgOi7jVFL/ https://linktr.ee/paradoxjukebox?fbclid=PAAaZc30ZfPiBoN6eC5Ma6xrJi9I5ITSN2coJQf1HCjghp-IIHpJ9MwsM0wBI https://www.patreon.com/paradoxjukebox https://www.instagram.com/paradox_jukebox/ Merch Store https://paradox-jukebox.creator-spring.com/ Music On The Move Studios Links: www.musiconthemovestudios.com https://www.instagram.com/musiconthemovestudios https://m.facebook.com/motmstudios Theme Song Credit: "Shakin' In My Boots" By Erin McLendon Reach Out At: info@musiconthemovestudios.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/paradoxjukebox/message

"Carol Kaye" was the "first call" bassist for recording sessions between the late 50s, to the early 70s in the recording studios of L.A. She was a part of an elite group of musicians known as "The Wrecking Crew", who were called into the studios by producers such as Quincy Jones and Phil Spector. These musicians were responsible for creating the basslines, guitar riffs, and drum beats that have shaped the lives of countless musicians, and music enthusiasts. Carol agreed to come on the show to talk about her life, what it was like in the studios, and some amazing anecdotes about working with Phil Spector, Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, and Sonny and Cher. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/paradoxjukebox/message

In this episode we welcome the truly legendary Pamela Des Barres, all the way from her native San Fernando Valley, and invite her to reminisce about the all-girl GTOs, Frank Zappa, Lowell George... and plenty more besides. The bestselling author of 1987's groupie confessional I'm With The Band describes how she entered the Laurel Canyon orbit of ringmaster Zappa, and how the motley troupe he christened Girls Together Outrageously came into being. The former Miss Pamela talks about her fellow "Misses" Mercy and Christine, then describes the sessions for the group's unruly 1969 classic Permanent Damage. This leads on to a discussion of the Groupie phenomenon and its problematic nature in the #MeToo era. In passing, we hear about Rodney Bingenheimer's English Disco and 1974's Hollywood Street Revival and Trash Dance show. The somewhat different — yet not entirely unrelated — L.A. domain of the canyon singer-songwriter crowd is considered as we hear clips from co-host Barney Hoskyns' 2003 audio interview with James Taylor/Linda Ronstadt producer Peter Asher. Following discussion of Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell and their mutual paramour John David Souther, we circle back to the GTOs and the guest appearance of the late Jeff Beck on Permanent Damage. We then pay extensive tribute to Beck's eclectic genius and unique technique. We conclude with quotes from notable RBP library additions, including pieces about Bonnie Raitt recording at Bearsville, L.A. session bassist Carol Kaye and apocalyptic jazz trio Comet Is Coming. Many thanks to special guest Pamela Des Barres. Visit her website at pameladesbarresofficial.com for details of her podcast, books and more. Pieces discussed: The GTOs by Miles, A Requiem for Miss Christine, Girls Together Outrageously, Miss Mercy, Los Angeles Clubs, Rodney Bingenheimer, The GTOs live, Peter Asher audio, Jeff Beck audio, Jeff Beck by Eden, Jeff Beck by Alan Light, Jeff Beck by Kate Mossman, Bonnie Raitt, Ethel Merman, Carol Kaye, Compiling by gender and The Comet is Coming. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode we welcome the truly legendary Pamela Des Barres, all the way from her native San Fernando Valley, and invite her to reminisce about the all-girl GTOs, Frank Zappa, Lowell George... and plenty more besides. The bestselling author of 1987's groupie confessional I'm With The Band describes how she entered the Laurel Canyon orbit of ringmaster Zappa, and how the motley troupe he christened Girls Together Outrageously came into being. The former Miss Pamela talks about her fellow "Misses" Mercy and Christine, then describes the sessions for the group's unruly 1969 classic Permanent Damage. This leads on to a discussion of the Groupie phenomenon and its problematic nature in the #MeToo era. In passing, we hear about Rodney Bingenheimer's English Disco and 1974's Hollywood Street Revival and Trash Dance show. The somewhat different — yet not entirely unrelated — L.A. domain of the canyon singer-songwriter crowd is considered as we hear clips from co-host Barney Hoskyns' 2003 audio interview with James Taylor/Linda Ronstadt producer Peter Asher. Following discussion of Ronstadt, Joni Mitchell and their mutual paramour John David Souther, we circle back to the GTOs and the guest appearance of the late Jeff Beck on Permanent Damage. We then pay extensive tribute to Beck's eclectic genius and unique technique. We conclude with quotes from notable RBP library additions, including pieces about Bonnie Raitt recording at Bearsville, L.A. session bassist Carol Kaye and apocalyptic jazz trio Comet Is Coming. Many thanks to special guest Pamela Des Barres. Visit her website at pameladesbarresofficial.com for details of her podcast, books and more. Pieces discussed: The GTOs by Miles, A Requiem for Miss Christine, Girls Together Outrageously, Miss Mercy, Los Angeles Clubs, Rodney Bingenheimer, The GTOs live, Peter Asher audio, Jeff Beck audio, Jeff Beck by Eden, Jeff Beck by Alan Light, Jeff Beck by Kate Mossman, Bonnie Raitt, Ethel Merman, Carol Kaye, Compiling by gender and The Comet is Coming.

Episode one hundred and fifty-six of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “I Was Made to Love Her", the early career of Stevie Wonder, and the Detroit riots of 1967. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a twenty-minute bonus episode available, on "Groovin'" by the Young Rascals. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources As usual, I've put together a Mixcloud playlist of all the recordings excerpted in this episode. The best value way to get all of Stevie Wonder's early singles is this MP3 collection, which has the original mono single mixes of fifty-five tracks for a very reasonable price. For those who prefer physical media, this is a decent single-CD collection of his early work at a very low price indeed. As well as the general Motown information listed below, I've also referred to Signed, Sealed, and Delivered: The Soulful Journey of Stevie Wonder by Mark Ribowsky, which rather astonishingly is the only full-length biography of Wonder, to Higher Ground: Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin, Curtis Mayfield, and the Rise and Fall of American Soul by Craig Werner, and to Detroit 67: The Year That Changed Soul by Stuart Cosgrove. For Motown-related information in this and other Motown episodes, I've used the following resources: Where Did Our Love Go? The Rise and Fall of the Motown Sound by Nelson George is an excellent popular history of the various companies that became Motown. To Be Loved by Berry Gordy is Gordy's own, understandably one-sided, but relatively well-written, autobiography. Women of Motown: An Oral History by Susan Whitall is a collection of interviews with women involved in Motown. I Hear a Symphony: Motown and Crossover R&B by J. Andrew Flory is an academic look at Motown. The Motown Encyclopaedia by Graham Betts is an exhaustive look at the people and records involved in Motown's thirty-year history. How Sweet It Is by Lamont Dozier and Scott B. Bomar is Dozier's autobiography, while Come and Get These Memories by Brian and Eddie Holland and Dave Thompson is the Holland brothers'. Standing in the Shadows of Motown: The Life and Music of Legendary Bassist James Jamerson by "Dr Licks" is a mixture of a short biography of the great bass player, and tablature of his most impressive bass parts. And Motown Junkies is an infrequently-updated blog looking at (so far) the first 694 tracks released on Motown singles. Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript A quick note before I begin -- this episode deals with disability and racism, and also deals from the very beginning with sex work and domestic violence. It also has some discussion of police violence and sexual assault. As always I will try to deal with those subjects as non-judgementally and sensitively as possible, but if you worry that anything about those subjects might disturb you, please check the transcript. Calvin Judkins was not a good man. Lula Mae Hardaway thought at first he might be, when he took her in, with her infant son whose father had left before the boy was born. He was someone who seemed, when he played the piano, to be deeply sensitive and emotional, and he even did the decent thing and married her when he got her pregnant. She thought she could save him, even though he was a street hustler and not even very good at it, and thirty years older than her -- she was only nineteen, he was nearly fifty. But she soon discovered that he wasn't interested in being saved, and instead he was interested in hurting her. He became physically and financially abusive, and started pimping her out. Lula would eventually realise that Calvin Judkins was no good, but not until she got pregnant again, shortly after the birth of her second son. Her third son was born premature -- different sources give different numbers for how premature, with some saying four months and others six weeks -- and while he apparently went by Stevland Judkins throughout his early childhood, the name on his birth certificate was apparently Stevland Morris, Lula having decided not to give another child the surname of her abuser, though nobody has ever properly explained where she got the surname "Morris" from. Little Stevland was put in an incubator with an oxygen mask, which saved the tiny child's life but destroyed his sight, giving him a condition called retinopathy of prematurity -- a condition which nowadays can be prevented and cured, but in 1951 was just an unavoidable consequence for some portion of premature babies. Shortly after the family moved from Saginaw to Detroit, Lula kicked Calvin out, and he would remain only a peripheral figure in his children's lives, but one thing he did do was notice young Stevland's interest in music, and on his increasingly infrequent visits to his wife and kids -- visits that usually ended with violence -- he would bring along toy instruments for the young child to play, like a harmonica and a set of bongos. Stevie was a real prodigy, and by the time he was nine he had a collection of real musical instruments, because everyone could see that the kid was something special. A neighbour who owned a piano gave it to Stevie when she moved out and couldn't take it with her. A local Lions Club gave him a drum kit at a party they organised for local blind children, and a barber gave him a chromatic harmonica after seeing him play his toy one. Stevie gave his first professional performance when he was eight. His mother had taken him to a picnic in the park, and there was a band playing, and the little boy got as close to the stage as he could and started dancing wildly. The MC of the show asked the child who he was, and he said "My name is Stevie, and I can sing and play drums", so of course they got the cute kid up on stage behind the drum kit while the band played Johnny Ace's "Pledging My Love": [Excerpt: Johnny Ace, "Pledging My Love"] He did well enough that they paid him seventy-five cents -- an enormous amount for a small child at that time -- though he was disappointed afterwards that they hadn't played something faster that would really allow him to show off his drumming skills. After that he would perform semi-regularly at small events, and always ask to be paid in quarters rather than paper money, because he liked the sound of the coins -- one of his party tricks was to be able to tell one coin from another by the sound of them hitting a table. Soon he formed a duo with a neighbourhood friend, John Glover, who was a couple of years older and could play guitar while Stevie sang and played harmonica and bongos. The two were friends, and both accomplished musicians for their age, but that wasn't the only reason Stevie latched on to Glover. Even as young as he was, he knew that Motown was soon going to be the place to be in Detroit if you were a musician, and Glover had an in -- his cousin was Ronnie White of the Miracles. Stevie and John performed as a duo everywhere they could and honed their act, performing particularly at the talent shows which were such an incubator of Black musical talent at the time, and they also at this point seem to have got the attention of Clarence Paul, but it was White who brought the duo to Motown. Stevie and John first played for White and Bobby Rodgers, another of the Miracles, then when they were impressed they took them through the several layers of Motown people who would have to sign off on signing a new act. First they were taken to see Brian Holland, who was a rising star within Motown as "Please Mr. Postman" was just entering the charts. They impressed him with a performance of the Miracles song "Bad Girl": [Excerpt: The Miracles, "Bad Girl"] After that, Stevie and John went to see Mickey Stevenson, who was at first sceptical, thinking that a kid so young -- Stevie was only eleven at the time -- must be some kind of novelty act rather than a serious musician. He said later "It was like, what's next, the singing mouse?" But Stevenson was won over by the child's talent. Normally, Stevenson had the power to sign whoever he liked to the label, but given the extra legal complications involved in signing someone under-age, he had to get Berry Gordy's permission. Gordy didn't even like signing teenagers because of all the extra paperwork that would be involved, and he certainly wasn't interested in signing pre-teens. But he came down to the studio to see what Stevie could do, and was amazed, not by his singing -- Gordy didn't think much of that -- but by his instrumental ability. First Stevie played harmonica and bongos as proficiently as an adult professional, and then he made his way around the studio playing on every other instrument in the place -- often only a few notes, but competent on them all. Gordy decided to sign the duo -- and the initial contract was for an act named "Steve and John" -- but it was soon decided to separate them. Glover would be allowed to hang around Motown while he was finishing school, and there would be a place for him when he finished -- he later became a staff songwriter, working on tracks for the Four Tops and the Miracles among others, and he would even later write a number one hit, "You Don't Have to be a Star (to be in My Show)" for Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr -- but they were going to make Stevie a star right now. The man put in charge of that was Clarence Paul. Paul, under his birth name of Clarence Pauling, had started his career in the "5" Royales, a vocal group he formed with his brother Lowman Pauling that had been signed to Apollo Records by Ralph Bass, and later to King Records. Paul seems to have been on at least some of the earliest recordings by the group, so is likely on their first single, "Give Me One More Chance": [Excerpt: The "5" Royales, "Give Me One More Chance"] But Paul was drafted to go and fight in the Korean War, and so wasn't part of the group's string of hit singles, mostly written by his brother Lowman, like "Think", which later became better known in James Brown's cover version, or "Dedicated to the One I Love", later covered by the Shirelles, but in its original version dominated by Lowman's stinging guitar playing: [Excerpt: The "5" Royales, "Dedicated to the One I Love"] After being discharged, Clarence had shortened his name to Clarence Paul, and had started recording for all the usual R&B labels like Roulette and Federal, with little success: [Excerpt: Clarence Paul, "I'm Gonna Love You, Love You Til I Die"] He'd also co-written "I Need Your Lovin'", which had been an R&B hit for Roy Hamilton: [Excerpt: Roy Hamilton, "I Need Your Lovin'"] Paul had recently come to work for Motown – one of the things Berry Gordy did to try to make his label more attractive was to hire the relatives of R&B stars on other labels, in the hopes of getting them to switch to Motown – and he was the new man on the team, not given any of the important work to do. He was working with acts like Henry Lumpkin and the Valladiers, and had also been the producer of "Mind Over Matter", the single the Temptations had released as The Pirates in a desperate attempt to get a hit: [Excerpt: The Pirates, "Mind Over Matter"] Paul was the person you turned to when no-one else was interested, and who would come up with bizarre ideas. A year or so after the time period we're talking about, it was him who produced an album of country music for the Supremes, before they'd had a hit, and came up with "The Man With the Rock and Roll Banjo Band" for them: [Excerpt: The Supremes, "The Man With The Rock and Roll Banjo Band"] So, Paul was the perfect person to give a child -- by this time twelve years old -- who had the triple novelties of being a multi-instrumentalist, a child, and blind. Stevie started spending all his time around the Motown studios, partly because he was eager to learn everything about making records and partly because his home life wasn't particularly great and he wanted to be somewhere else. He earned the affection and irritation, in equal measure, of people at Motown both for his habit of wandering into the middle of sessions because he couldn't see the light that showed that the studio was in use, and for his practical joking. He was a great mimic, and would do things like phoning one of the engineers and imitating Berry Gordy's voice, telling the engineer that Stevie would be coming down, and to give him studio equipment to take home. He'd also astonish women by complimenting them, in detail, on their dresses, having been told in advance what they looked like by an accomplice. But other "jokes" were less welcome -- he would regularly sexually assault women working at Motown, grabbing their breasts or buttocks and then claiming it was an accident because he couldn't see what he was doing. Most of the women he molested still speak of him fondly, and say everybody loved him, and this may even be the case -- and certainly I don't think any of us should be judged too harshly for what we did when we were twelve -- but this kind of thing led to a certain amount of pressure to make Stevie's career worth the extra effort he was causing everyone at Motown. Because Berry Gordy was not impressed with Stevie's vocals, the decision was made to promote him as a jazz instrumentalist, and so Clarence Paul insisted that his first release be an album, rather than doing what everyone would normally do and only put out an album after a hit single. Paul reasoned that there was no way on Earth they were going to be able to get a hit single with a jazz instrumental by a twelve-year-old kid, and eventually persuaded Gordy of the wisdom of this idea. So they started work on The Jazz Soul of Little Stevie, released under his new stagename of Little Stevie Wonder, supposedly a name given to him after Berry Gordy said "That kid's a wonder!", though Mickey Stevenson always said that the name came from a brainstorming session between him and Clarence Paul. The album featured Stevie on harmonica, piano, and organ on different tracks, but on the opening track, "Fingertips", he's playing the bongos that give the track its name: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Fingertips (studio version)"] The composition of that track is credited to Paul and the arranger Hank Cosby, but Beans Bowles, who played flute on the track, always claimed that he came up with the melody, and it seems quite likely to me that most of the tracks on the album were created more or less as jam sessions -- though Wonder's contributions were all overdubbed later. The album sat in the can for several months -- Berry Gordy was not at all sure of its commercial potential. Instead, he told Paul to go in another direction -- focusing on Wonder's blindness, he decided that what they needed to do was create an association in listeners' minds with Ray Charles, who at this point was at the peak of his commercial power. So back into the studio went Wonder and Paul, to record an album made up almost entirely of Ray Charles covers, titled Tribute to Uncle Ray. (Some sources have the Ray Charles tribute album recorded first -- and given Motown's lax record-keeping at this time it may be impossible to know for sure -- but this is the way round that Mark Ribowsky's biography of Wonder has it). But at Motown's regular quality control meeting it was decided that there wasn't a single on the album, and you didn't release an album like that without having a hit single first. By this point, Clarence Paul was convinced that Berry Gordy was just looking for excuses not to do anything with Wonder -- and there may have been a grain of truth to that. There's some evidence that Gordy was worried that the kid wouldn't be able to sing once his voice broke, and was scared of having another Frankie Lymon on his hands. But the decision was made that rather than put out either of those albums, they would put out a single. The A-side was a song called "I Call it Pretty Music But the Old People Call it the Blues, Part 1", which very much played on Wonder's image as a loveable naive kid: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "I Call it Pretty Music But the Old People Call it the Blues, Part 1"] The B-side, meanwhile, was part two -- a slowed-down, near instrumental, version of the song, reframed as an actual blues, and as a showcase for Wonder's harmonica playing rather than his vocals. The single wasn't a hit, but it made number 101 on the Billboard charts, just missing the Hot One Hundred, which for the debut single of a new artist wasn't too bad, especially for Motown at this point in time, when most of its releases were flopping. That was good enough that Gordy authorised the release of the two albums that they had in the can. The next single, "Little Water Boy", was a rather baffling duet with Clarence Paul, which did nothing at all on the charts. [Excerpt: Clarence Paul and Little Stevie Wonder, "Little Water Boy"] After this came another flop single, written by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier, and Janie Bradford, before the record that finally broke Little Stevie Wonder out into the mainstream in a big way. While Wonder hadn't had a hit yet, he was sent out on the first Motortown Revue tour, along with almost every other act on the label. Because he hadn't had a hit, he was supposed to only play one song per show, but nobody had told him how long that song should be. He had quickly become a great live performer, and the audiences were excited to watch him, so when he went into extended harmonica solos rather than quickly finishing the song, the audience would be with him. Clarence Paul, who came along on the tour, would have to motion to the onstage bandleader to stop the music, but the bandleader would know that the audiences were with Stevie, and so would just keep the song going as long as Stevie was playing. Often Paul would have to go on to the stage and shout in Wonder's ear to stop playing -- and often Wonder would ignore him, and have to be physically dragged off stage by Paul, still playing, causing the audience to boo Paul for stopping him from playing. Wonder would complain off-stage that the audience had been enjoying it, and didn't seem to get it into his head that he wasn't the star of the show, that the audiences *were* enjoying him, but were *there* to see the Miracles and Mary Wells and the Marvelettes and Marvin Gaye. This made all the acts who had to go on after him, and who were running late as a result, furious at him -- especially since one aspect of Wonder's blindness was that his circadian rhythms weren't regulated by sunlight in the same way that the sighted members of the tour's were. He would often wake up the entire tour bus by playing his harmonica at two or three in the morning, while they were all trying to sleep. Soon Berry Gordy insisted that Clarence Paul be on stage with Wonder throughout his performance, ready to drag him off stage, so that he wouldn't have to come out onto the stage to do it. But one of the first times he had done this had been on one of the very first Motortown Revue shows, before any of his records had come out. There he'd done a performance of "Fingertips", playing the flute part on harmonica rather than only playing bongos throughout as he had on the studio version -- leaving the percussion to Marvin Gaye, who was playing drums for Wonder's set: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Fingertips (Parts 1 & 2)"] But he'd extended the song with a little bit of call-and-response vocalising: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Fingertips (Parts 1 & 2)"] After the long performance ended, Clarence Paul dragged Wonder off-stage and the MC asked the audience to give him a round of applause -- but then Stevie came running back on and carried on playing: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Fingertips (Parts 1 & 2)"] By this point, though, the musicians had started to change over -- Mary Wells, who was on after Wonder, was using different musicians from his, and some of her players were already on stage. You can hear Joe Swift, who was playing bass for Wells, asking what key he was meant to be playing in: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Fingertips (Parts 1 & 2)"] Eventually, after six and a half minutes, they got Wonder off stage, but that performance became the two sides of Wonder's next single, with "Fingertips Part 2", the part with the ad lib singing and the false ending, rather than the instrumental part one, being labelled as the side the DJs should play. When it was released, the song started a slow climb up the charts, and by August 1963, three months after it came out, it was at number one -- only the second ever Motown number one, and the first ever live single to get there. Not only that, but Motown released a live album -- Recorded Live, the Twelve-Year-Old Genius (though as many people point out he was thirteen when it was released -- he was twelve when it was recorded though) and that made number one on the albums chart, becoming the first Motown album ever to do so. They followed up "Fingertips" with a similar sounding track, "Workout, Stevie, Workout", which made number thirty-three. After that, his albums -- though not yet his singles -- started to be released as by "Stevie Wonder" with no "Little" -- he'd had a bit of a growth spurt and his voice was breaking, and so marketing him as a child prodigy was not going to work much longer and they needed to transition him into a star with adult potential. In the Motown of 1963 that meant cutting an album of standards, because the belief at the time in Motown was that the future for their entertainers was doing show tunes at the Copacabana. But for some reason the audience who had wanted an R&B harmonica instrumental with call-and-response improvised gospel-influenced yelling was not in the mood for a thirteen year old singing "Put on a Happy Face" and "When You Wish Upon a Star", and especially not when the instrumental tracks were recorded in a key that suited him at age twelve but not thirteen, so he was clearly straining. "Fingertips" being a massive hit also meant Stevie was now near the top of the bill on the Motortown Revue when it went on its second tour. But this actually put him in a precarious position. When he had been down at the bottom of the bill and unknown, nobody expected anything from him, and he was following other minor acts, so when he was surprisingly good the audiences went wild. Now, near the top of the bill, he had to go on after Marvin Gaye, and he was not nearly so impressive in that context. The audiences were polite enough, but not in the raptures he was used to. Although Stevie could still beat Gaye in some circumstances. At Motown staff parties, Berry Gordy would always have a contest where he'd pit two artists against each other to see who could win the crowd over, something he thought instilled a fun and useful competitive spirit in his artists. They'd alternate songs, two songs each, and Gordy would decide on the winner based on audience response. For the 1963 Motown Christmas party, it was Stevie versus Marvin. Wonder went first, with "Workout, Stevie, Workout", and was apparently impressive, but then Gaye topped him with a version of "Hitch-Hike". So Stevie had to top that, and apparently did, with a hugely extended version of "I Call it Pretty Music", reworked in the Ray Charles style he'd used for "Fingertips". So Marvin Gaye had to top that with the final song of the contest, and he did, performing "Stubborn Kind of Fellow": [Excerpt: Marvin Gaye, "Stubborn Kind of Fellow"] And he was great. So great, it turned the crowd against him. They started booing, and someone in the audience shouted "Marvin, you should be ashamed of yourself, taking advantage of a little blind kid!" The crowd got so hostile Berry Gordy had to stop the performance and end the party early. He never had another contest like that again. There were other problems, as well. Wonder had been assigned a tutor, a young man named Ted Hull, who began to take serious control over his life. Hull was legally blind, so could teach Wonder using Braille, but unlike Wonder had some sight -- enough that he was even able to get a drivers' license and a co-pilot license for planes. Hull was put in loco parentis on most of Stevie's tours, and soon became basically inseparable from him, but this caused a lot of problems, not least because Hull was a conservative white man, while almost everyone else at Motown was Black, and Stevie was socially liberal and on the side of the civil rights and anti-Vietnam movements. Hull started to collaborate on songwriting with Wonder, which most people at Motown were OK with but which now seems like a serious conflict of interest, and he also started calling himself Stevie's "manager" -- which did *not* impress the people at Motown, who had their own conflict of interest because with Stevie, like with all their artists, they were his management company and agents as well as his record label and publishers. Motown grudgingly tolerated Hull, though, mostly because he was someone they could pass Lula Mae Hardaway to to deal with her complaints. Stevie's mother was not very impressed with the way that Motown were handling her son, and would make her opinion known to anyone who would listen. Hull and Hardaway did not get on at all, but he could be relied on to save the Gordy family members from having to deal with her. Wonder was sent over to Europe for Christmas 1963, to perform shows at the Paris Olympia and do some British media appearances. But both his mother and Hull had come along, and their clear dislike for each other was making him stressed. He started to get pains in his throat whenever he sang -- pains which everyone assumed were a stress reaction to the unhealthy atmosphere that happened whenever Hull and his mother were in the same room together, but which later turned out to be throat nodules that required surgery. Because of this, his singing was generally not up to standard, which meant he was moved to a less prominent place on the bill, which in turn led to his mother accusing the Gordy family of being against him and trying to stop him becoming a star. Wonder started to take her side and believe that Motown were conspiring against him, and at one point he even "accidentally" dropped a bottle of wine on Ted Hull's foot, breaking one of his toes, because he saw Hull as part of the enemy that was Motown. Before leaving for those shows, he had recorded the album he later considered the worst of his career. While he was now just plain Stevie on albums, he wasn't for his single releases, or in his first film appearance, where he was still Little Stevie Wonder. Berry Gordy was already trying to get a foot in the door in Hollywood -- by the end of the decade Motown would be moving from Detroit to LA -- and his first real connections there were with American International Pictures, the low-budget film-makers who have come up a lot in connection with the LA scene. AIP were the producers of the successful low-budget series of beach party films, which combined appearances by teen heartthrobs Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello in swimsuits with cameo appearances by old film stars fallen on hard times, and with musical performances by bands like the Bobby Fuller Four. There would be a couple of Motown connections to these films -- most notably, the Supremes would do the theme tune for Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine -- but Muscle Beach Party was to be the first. Most of the music for Muscle Beach Party was written by Brian Wilson, Roger Christian, and Gary Usher, as one might expect for a film about surfing, and was performed by Dick Dale and the Del-Tones, the film's major musical guests, with Annette, Frankie, and Donna Loren [pron Lorren] adding vocals, on songs like "Muscle Bustle": [Excerpt: Donna Loren with Dick Dale and the Del-Tones, "Muscle Bustle"] The film followed the formula in every way -- it also had a cameo appearance by Peter Lorre, his last film appearance before his death, and it featured Little Stevie Wonder playing one of the few songs not written by the surf and car writers, a piece of nothing called "Happy Street". Stevie also featured in the follow-up, Bikini Beach, which came out a little under four months later, again doing a single number, "Happy Feelin'". To cash in on his appearances in these films, and having tried releasing albums of Little Stevie as jazz multi-instrumentalist, Ray Charles tribute act, live soulman and Andy Williams-style crooner, they now decided to see if they could sell him as a surf singer. Or at least, as Motown's idea of a surf singer, which meant a lot of songs about the beach and the sea -- mostly old standards like "Red Sails in the Sunset" and "Ebb Tide" -- backed by rather schlocky Wrecking Crew arrangements. And this is as good a place as any to take on one of the bits of disinformation that goes around about Motown. I've addressed this before, but it's worth repeating here in slightly more detail. Carol Kaye, one of the go-to Wrecking Crew bass players, is a known credit thief, and claims to have played on hundreds of records she didn't -- claims which too many people take seriously because she is a genuine pioneer and was for a long time undercredited on many records she *did* play on. In particular, she claims to have played on almost all the classic Motown hits that James Jamerson of the Funk Brothers played on, like the title track for this episode, and she claims this despite evidence including notarised statements from everyone involved in the records, the release of session recordings that show producers talking to the Funk Brothers, and most importantly the evidence of the recordings themselves, which have all the characteristics of the Detroit studio and sound like the Funk Brothers playing, and have absolutely nothing in common, sonically, with the records the Wrecking Crew played on at Gold Star, Western, and other LA studios. The Wrecking Crew *did* play on a lot of Motown records, but with a handful of exceptions, mostly by Brenda Holloway, the records they played on were quickie knock-off album tracks and potboiler albums made to tie in with film or TV work -- soundtracks to TV specials the acts did, and that kind of thing. And in this case, the Wrecking Crew played on the entire Stevie at the Beach album, including the last single to be released as by "Little Stevie Wonder", "Castles in the Sand", which was arranged by Jack Nitzsche: [Excerpt: Little Stevie Wonder, "Castles in the Sand"] Apparently the idea of surfin' Stevie didn't catch on any more than that of swingin' Stevie had earlier. Indeed, throughout 1964 and 65 Motown seem to have had less than no idea what they were doing with Stevie Wonder, and he himself refers to all his recordings from this period as an embarrassment, saving particular scorn for the second single from Stevie at the Beach, "Hey Harmonica Man", possibly because that, unlike most of his other singles around this point, was a minor hit, reaching number twenty-nine on the charts. Motown were still pushing Wonder hard -- he even got an appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show in May 1964, only the second Motown act to appear on it after the Marvelettes -- but Wonder was getting more and more unhappy with the decisions they were making. He loathed the Stevie at the Beach album -- the records he'd made earlier, while patchy and not things he'd chosen, were at least in some way related to his musical interests. He *did* love jazz, and he *did* love Ray Charles, and he *did* love old standards, and the records were made by his friend Clarence Paul and with the studio musicians he'd grown to know in Detroit. But Stevie at the Beach was something that was imposed on Clarence Paul from above, it was cut with unfamiliar musicians, Stevie thought the films he was appearing in were embarrassing, and he wasn't even having much commercial success, which was the whole point of these compromises. He started to get more rebellious against Paul in the studio, though many of these decisions weren't made by Paul, and he would complain to anyone who would listen that if he was just allowed to do the music he wanted to sing, the way he wanted to sing it, he would have more hits. But for nine months he did basically no singing other than that Ed Sullivan Show appearance -- he had to recover from the operation to remove the throat nodules. When he did return to the studio, the first single he cut remained unreleased, and while some stuff from the archives was released between the start of 1964 and March 1965, the first single he recorded and released after the throat nodules, "Kiss Me Baby", which came out in March, was a complete flop. That single was released to coincide with the first Motown tour of Europe, which we looked at in the episode on "Stop! In the Name of Love", and which was mostly set up to promote the Supremes, but which also featured Martha and the Vandellas, the Miracles, and the Temptations. Even though Stevie had not had a major hit in eighteen months by this point, he was still brought along on the tour, the only solo artist to be included -- at this point Gordy thought that solo artists looked outdated compared to vocal groups, in a world dominated by bands, and so other solo artists like Marvin Gaye weren't invited. This was a sign that Gordy was happier with Stevie than his recent lack of chart success might suggest. One of the main reasons that Gordy had been in two minds about him was that he'd had no idea if Wonder would still be able to sing well after his voice broke. But now, as he was about to turn fifteen, his adult voice had more or less stabilised, and Gordy knew that he was capable of having a long career, if they just gave him the proper material. But for now his job on the tour was to do his couple of hits, smile, and be on the lower rungs of the ladder. But even that was still a prominent place to be given the scaled-down nature of this bill compared to the Motortown Revues. While the tour was in England, for example, Dusty Springfield presented a TV special focusing on all the acts on the tour, and while the Supremes were the main stars, Stevie got to do two songs, and also took part in the finale, a version of "Mickey's Monkey" led by Smokey Robinson but with all the performers joining in, with Wonder getting a harmonica solo: [Excerpt: Smokey Robinson and the Motown acts, "Mickey's Monkey"] Sadly, there was one aspect of the trip to the UK that was extremely upsetting for Wonder. Almost all the media attention he got -- which was relatively little, as he wasn't a Supreme -- was about his blindness, and one reporter in particular convinced him that there was an operation he could have to restore his sight, but that Motown were preventing him from finding out about it in order to keep his gimmick going. He was devastated about this, and then further devastated when Ted Hull finally convinced him that it wasn't true, and that he'd been lied to. Meanwhile other newspapers were reporting that he *could* see, and that he was just feigning blindness to boost his record sales. After the tour, a live recording of Wonder singing the blues standard "High Heeled Sneakers" was released as a single, and barely made the R&B top thirty, and didn't hit the top forty on the pop charts. Stevie's initial contract with Motown was going to expire in the middle of 1966, so there was a year to get him back to a point where he was having the kind of hits that other Motown acts were regularly getting at this point. Otherwise, it looked like his career might end by the time he was sixteen. The B-side to "High Heeled Sneakers" was another duet with Clarence Paul, who dominates the vocal sound for much of it -- a version of Willie Nelson's country classic "Funny How Time Slips Away": [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder and Clarence Paul, "Funny How Time Slips Away"] There are a few of these duet records scattered through Wonder's early career -- we'll hear another one a little later -- and they're mostly dismissed as Paul trying to muscle his way into a revival of his own recording career as an artist, and there may be some truth in that. But they're also a natural extension of the way the two of them worked in the studio. Motown didn't have the facilities to give Wonder Braille lyric sheets, and Paul didn't trust him to be able to remember the lyrics, so often when they made a record, Paul would be just off-mic, reciting the lyrics to Wonder fractionally ahead of him singing them. So it was more or less natural that this dynamic would leak out onto records, but not everyone saw it that way. But at the same time, there has been some suggestion that Paul was among those manoeuvring to get rid of Wonder from Motown as soon as his contract was finished -- despite the fact that Wonder was the only act Paul had worked on any big hits for. Either way, Paul and Wonder were starting to chafe at working with each other in the studio, and while Paul remained his on-stage musical director, the opportunity to work on Wonder's singles for what would surely be his last few months at Motown was given to Hank Cosby and Sylvia Moy. Cosby was a saxophone player and staff songwriter who had been working with Wonder and Paul for years -- he'd co-written "Fingertips" and several other tracks -- while Moy was a staff songwriter who was working as an apprentice to Cosby. Basically, at this point, nobody else wanted the job of writing for Wonder, and as Moy was having no luck getting songs cut by any other artists and her career was looking about as dead as Wonder's, they started working together. Wonder was, at this point, full of musical ideas but with absolutely no discipline. He's said in interviews that at this point he was writing a hundred and fifty songs a month, but these were often not full songs -- they were fragments, hooks, or a single verse, or a few lines, which he would pass on to Moy, who would turn his ideas into structured songs that fit the Motown hit template, usually with the assistance of Cosby. Then Cosby would come up with an arrangement, and would co-produce with Mickey Stevenson. The first song they came up with in this manner was a sign of how Wonder was looking outside the world of Motown to the rock music that was starting to dominate the US charts -- but which was itself inspired by Motown music. We heard in the last episode on the Rolling Stones how "Nowhere to Run" by the Vandellas: [Excerpt: Martha and the Vandellas, "Nowhere to Run"] had inspired the Stones' "Satisfaction": [Excerpt: The Rolling Stones, "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction"] And Wonder in turn was inspired by "Satisfaction" to come up with his own song -- though again, much of the work making it into an actual finished song was done by Sylvia Moy. They took the four-on-the-floor beat and basic melody of "Satisfaction" and brought it back to Motown, where those things had originated -- though they hadn't originated with Stevie, and this was his first record to sound like a Motown record in the way we think of those things. As a sign of how, despite the way these stories are usually told, the histories of rock and soul were completely and complexly intertwined, that four-on-the-floor beat itself was a conscious attempt by Holland, Dozier, and Holland to appeal to white listeners -- on the grounds that while Black people generally clapped on the backbeat, white people didn't, and so having a four-on-the-floor beat wouldn't throw them off. So Cosby, Moy, and Wonder, in trying to come up with a "Satisfaction" soundalike were Black Motown writers trying to copy a white rock band trying to copy Black Motown writers trying to appeal to a white rock audience. Wonder came up with the basic chorus hook, which was based around a lot of current slang terms he was fond of: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "Uptight"] Then Moy, with some assistance from Cosby, filled it out into a full song. Lyrically, it was as close to social comment as Motown had come at this point -- Wonder was, like many of his peers in soul music, interested in the power of popular music to make political statements, and he would become a much more political artist in the next few years, but at this point it's still couched in the acceptable boy-meets-girl romantic love song that Motown specialised in. But in 1965 a story about a boy from the wrong side of the tracks dating a rich girl inevitably raised the idea that the boy and girl might be of different races -- a subject that was very, very, controversial in the mid-sixties. [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "Uptight"] "Uptight" made number three on the pop charts and number one on the R&B charts, and saved Stevie Wonder's career. And this is where, for all that I've criticised Motown in this episode, their strategy paid off. Mickey Stevenson talked a lot about how in the early sixties Motown didn't give up on artists -- if someone had potential but was not yet having hits or finding the right approach, they would keep putting out singles in a holding pattern, trying different things and seeing what would work, rather than toss them aside. It had already worked for the Temptations and the Supremes, and now it had worked for Stevie Wonder. He would be the last beneficiary of this policy -- soon things would change, and Motown would become increasingly focused on trying to get the maximum returns out of a small number of stars, rather than building careers for a range of artists -- but it paid off brilliantly for Wonder. "Uptight" was such a reinvention of Wonder's career, sound, and image that many of his fans consider it the real start of his career -- everything before it only counting as prologue. The follow-up, "Nothing's Too Good For My Baby", was an "Uptight" soundalike, and as with Motown soundalike follow-ups in general, it didn't do quite as well, but it still made the top twenty on the pop chart and got to number four on the R&B chart. Stevie Wonder was now safe at Motown, and so he was going to do something no other Motown act had ever done before -- he was going to record a protest song and release it as a single. For about a year he'd been ending his shows with a version of Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the Wind", sung as a duet with Clarence Paul, who was still his on stage bandleader even though the two weren't working together in the studio as much. Wonder brought that into the studio, and recorded it with Paul back as the producer, and as his duet partner. Berry Gordy wasn't happy with the choice of single, but Wonder pushed, and Gordy knew that Wonder was on a winning streak and gave in, and so "Blowin' in the Wind" became Stevie Wonder's next single: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder and Clarence Paul, "Blowin' in the Wind"] "Blowin' in the Wind" made the top ten, and number one on the R&B charts, and convinced Gordy that there was some commercial potential in going after the socially aware market, and over the next few years Motown would start putting out more and more political records. Because Motown convention was to have the producer of a hit record produce the next hit for that artist, and keep doing so until they had a flop, Paul was given the opportunity to produce the next single. "A Place in the Sun" was another ambiguously socially-aware song, co-written by the only white writer on Motown staff, Ron Miller, who happened to live in the same building as Stevie's tutor-cum-manager Ted Hull. "A Place in the Sun" was a pleasant enough song, inspired by "A Change is Gonna Come", but with a more watered-down, generic, message of hope, but the record was lifted by Stevie's voice, and again made the top ten. This meant that Paul and Miller, and Miller's writing partner Bryan Mills, got to work on his next  two singles -- his 1966 Christmas song "Someday at Christmas", which made number twenty-four, and the ballad "Travellin' Man" which made thirty-two. The downward trajectory with Paul meant that Wonder was soon working with other producers again. Harvey Fuqua and Johnny Bristol cut another Miller and Mills song with him, "Yester-Me, Yester-You, Yesterday": [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "Yester-Me, Yester-You, Yesterday"] But that was left in the can, as not good enough to release, and Stevie was soon back working with Cosby. The two of them had come up with an instrumental together in late 1966, but had not been able to come up with any words for it, so they played it for Smokey Robinson, who said their instrumental sounded like circus music, and wrote lyrics about a clown: [Excerpt: The Miracles, "The Tears of a Clown"] The Miracles cut that as album filler, but it was released three years later as a single and became the Miracles' only number one hit with Smokey Robinson as lead singer. So Wonder and Cosby definitely still had their commercial touch, even if their renewed collaboration with Moy, who they started working with again, took a while to find a hit. To start with, Wonder returned to the idea of taking inspiration from a hit by a white British group, as he had with "Uptight". This time it was the Beatles, and the track "Michelle", from the Rubber Soul album: [Excerpt: The Beatles, "Michelle"] Wonder took the idea of a song with some French lyrics, and a melody with some similarities to the Beatles song, and came up with "My Cherie Amour", which Cosby and Moy finished off. [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "My Cherie Amour"] Gordy wouldn't allow that to be released, saying it was too close to "Michelle" and people would think it was a rip-off, and it stayed in the vaults for several years. Cosby also produced a version of a song Ron Miller had written with Orlando Murden, "For Once in My Life", which pretty much every other Motown act was recording versions of -- the Four Tops, the Temptations, Billy Eckstine, Martha and the Vandellas and Barbra McNair all cut versions of it in 1967, and Gordy wouldn't let Wonder's version be put out either. So they had to return to the drawing board. But in truth, Stevie Wonder was not the biggest thing worrying Berry Gordy at this point. He was dealing with problems in the Supremes, which we'll look at in a future episode -- they were about to get rid of Florence Ballard, and thus possibly destroy one of the biggest acts in the world, but Gordy thought that if they *didn't* get rid of her they would be destroying themselves even more certainly. Not only that, but Gordy was in the midst of a secret affair with Diana Ross, Holland, Dozier, and Holland were getting restless about their contracts, and his producers kept bringing him unlistenable garbage that would never be a hit. Like Norman Whitfield, insisting that this track he'd cut with Marvin Gaye, "I Heard it Through the Grapevine", should be a single. Gordy had put his foot down about that one too, just like he had about "My Cherie Amour", and wouldn't allow it to be released. Meanwhile, many of the smaller acts on the label were starting to feel like they were being ignored by Gordy, and had formed what amounted to a union, having regular meetings at Clarence Paul's house to discuss how they could pressure the label to put the same effort into their careers as into those of the big stars. And the Funk Brothers, the musicians who played on all of Motown's hits, were also getting restless -- they contributed to the arrangements, and they did more for the sound of the records than half the credited producers; why weren't they getting production credits and royalties? Harvey Fuqua had divorced Gordy's sister Gwen, and so became persona non grata at the label and was in the process of leaving Motown, and so was Mickey Stevenson, Gordy's second in command, because Gordy wouldn't give him any stock in the company. And Detroit itself was on edge. The crime rate in the city had started to go up, but even worse, the *perception* of crime was going up. The Detroit News had been running a campaign to whip up fear, which it called its Secret Witness campaign, and running constant headlines about rapes, murders, and muggings. These in turn had led to increased calls for more funds for the police, calls which inevitably contained a strong racial element and at least implicitly linked the perceived rise in crime to the ongoing Civil Rights movement. At this point the police in Detroit were ninety-three percent white, even though Detroit's population was over thirty percent Black. The Mayor and Police Commissioner were trying to bring in some modest reforms, but they weren't going anywhere near fast enough for the Black population who felt harassed and attacked by the police, but were still going too fast for the white people who were being whipped up into a state of terror about supposedly soft-on-crime policies, and for the police who felt under siege and betrayed by the politicians. And this wasn't the only problem affecting the city, and especially affecting Black people. Redlining and underfunded housing projects meant that the large Black population was being crammed into smaller and smaller spaces with fewer local amenities. A few Black people who were lucky enough to become rich -- many of them associated with Motown -- were able to move into majority-white areas, but that was just leading to white flight, and to an increase in racial tensions. The police were on edge after the murder of George Overman Jr, the son of a policeman, and though they arrested the killers that was just another sign that they weren't being shown enough respect. They started organising "blu flu"s -- the police weren't allowed to strike, so they'd claim en masse that they were off sick, as a protest against the supposed soft-on-crime administration. Meanwhile John Sinclair was organising "love-ins", gatherings of hippies at which new bands like the MC5 played, which were being invaded by gangs of bikers who were there to beat up the hippies. And the Detroit auto industry was on its knees -- working conditions had got bad enough that the mostly Black workforce organised a series of wildcat strikes. All in all, Detroit was looking less and less like somewhere that Berry Gordy wanted to stay, and the small LA subsidiary of Motown was rapidly becoming, in his head if nowhere else, the more important part of the company, and its future. He was starting to think that maybe he should leave all these ungrateful people behind in their dangerous city, and move the parts of the operation that actually mattered out to Hollywood. Stevie Wonder was, of course, one of the parts that mattered, but the pressure was on in 1967 to come up with a hit as big as his records from 1965 and early 66, before he'd been sidetracked down the ballad route. The song that was eventually released was one on which Stevie's mother, Lula Mae Hardaway, had a co-writing credit: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "I Was Made to Love Her"] "I Was Made to Love Her" was inspired by Wonder's first love, a girl from the same housing projects as him, and he talked about the song being special to him because it was true, saying it "kind of speaks of my first love to a girl named Angie, who was a very beautiful woman... Actually, she was my third girlfriend but my first love. I used to call Angie up and, like, we would talk and say, 'I love you, I love you,' and we'd talk and we'd both go to sleep on the phone. And this was like from Detroit to California, right? You know, mother said, 'Boy, what you doing - get off the phone!' Boy, I tell you, it was ridiculous." But while it was inspired by her, like with many of the songs from this period, much of the lyric came from Moy -- her mother grew up in Arkansas, and that's why the lyric started "I was born in Little Rock", as *her* inspiration came from stories told by her parents. But truth be told, the lyrics weren't particularly detailed or impressive, just a standard story of young love. Rather what mattered in the record was the music. The song was structured differently from many Motown records, including most of Wonder's earlier ones. Most Motown records had a huge amount of dynamic variation, and a clear demarcation between verse and chorus. Even a record like "Dancing in the Street", which took most of its power from the tension and release caused by spending most of the track on one chord, had the release that came with the line "All we need is music", and could be clearly subdivided into different sections. "I Was Made to Love Her" wasn't like that. There was a tiny section which functioned as a middle eight -- and which cover versions like the one by the Beach Boys later that year tend to cut out, because it disrupts the song's flow: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "I Was Made to Love Her"] But other than that, the song has no verse or chorus, no distinct sections, it's just a series of lyrical couplets over the same four chords, repeating over and over, an incessant groove that could really go on indefinitely: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "I Was Made to Love Her"] This is as close as Motown had come at this point to the new genre of funk, of records that were just staying with one groove throughout. It wasn't a funk record, not yet -- it was still a pop-soul record, But what made it extraordinary was the bass line, and this is why I had to emphasise earlier that this was a record by the Funk Brothers, not the Wrecking Crew, no matter how much some Crew members may claim otherwise. As on most of Cosby's sessions, James Jamerson was given free reign to come up with his own part with little guidance, and what he came up with is extraordinary. This was at a time when rock and pop basslines were becoming a little more mobile, thanks to the influence of Jamerson in Detroit, Brian Wilson in LA, and Paul McCartney in London.  But for the most part, even those bass parts had been fairly straightforward technically -- often inventive, but usually just crotchets and quavers, still keeping rhythm along with the drums rather than in dialogue with them, roaming free rhythmically. Jamerson had started to change his approach, inspired by the change in studio equipment. Motown had upgraded to eight-track recording in 1965, and once he'd become aware of the possibilities, and of the greater prominence that his bass parts could have if they were recorded on their own track, Jamerson had become a much busier player. Jamerson was a jazz musician by inclination, and so would have been very aware of John Coltrane's legendary "sheets of sound", in which Coltrane would play fast arpeggios and scales, in clusters of five and seven notes, usually in semiquaver runs (though sometimes in even smaller fractions -- his solo in Miles Davis' "Straight, No Chaser" is mostly semiquavers but has a short passage in hemidemisemiquavers): [Excerpt: Miles Davis, "Straight, No Chaser"] Jamerson started to adapt the "sheets of sound" style to bass playing, treating the bass almost as a jazz solo instrument -- though unlike Coltrane he was also very, very concerned with creating something that people could tap their feet to. Much like James Brown, Jamerson was taking jazz techniques and repurposing them for dance music. The most notable example of that up to this point had been in the Four Tops' "Bernadette", where there are a few scuffling semiquaver runs thrown in, and which is a much more fluid part than most of his playing previously: [Excerpt: The Four Tops, "Bernadette"] But on "Bernadette", Jamerson had been limited by Holland, Dozier, and Holland, who liked him to improvise but around a framework they created. Cosby, on the other hand, because he had been a Funk Brother himself, was much more aware of the musicians' improvisational abilities, and would largely give them a free hand. This led to a truly remarkable bass part on "I Was Made to Love Her", which is somewhat buried in the single mix, but Marcus Miller did an isolated recreation of the part for the accompanying CD to a book on Jamerson, Standing in the Shadows of Motown, and listening to that you can hear just how inventive it is: [Excerpt: Marcus Miller, "I Was Made to Love Her"] This was exciting stuff -- though much less so for the touring musicians who went on the road with the Motown revues while Jamerson largely stayed in Detroit recording. Jamerson's family would later talk about him coming home grumbling because complaints from the touring musicians had been brought to him, and he'd been asked to play less difficult parts so they'd find it easier to replicate them on stage. "I Was Made to Love Her" wouldn't exist without Stevie Wonder, Hank Cosby, Sylvia Moy, or Lula Mae Hardaway, but it's James Jamerson's record through and through: [Excerpt: Stevie Wonder, "I Was Made to Love Her"] It went to number two on the charts, sat between "Light My Fire" at number one, and "All You Need is Love" at number three, with the Beatles song soon to overtake it and make number one itself. But within a few weeks of "I Was Made to Love Her" reaching its chart peak, things in Detroit would change irrevocably. On the 23rd of July, the police busted an illegal drinking den. They thought they were only going to get about twenty-five people there, but there turned out to be a big party on. They tried to arrest seventy-four people, but their wagon wouldn't fit them all in so they had to call reinforcements and make the arrestees wait around til more wagons arrived. A crowd of hundreds gathered while they were waiting. Someone threw a brick at a squad car window, a rumour went round that the police had bayonetted someone, and soon the city was in flames. Riots lasted for days, with people burning down and looting businesses, but what really made the situation bad was the police's overreaction. They basically started shooting at young Black men, using them as target practice, and later claiming they were snipers, arsonists, and looters -- but there were cases like the Algiers Motel incident, where the police raided a motel where several Black men, including the members of the soul group The Dramatics, were hiding out along with a few white women. The police sexually assaulted the women, and then killed three of the men for associating with white women, in what was described as a "lynching with bullets". The policemen in question were later acquitted of all charges. The National Guard were called in, as were Federal troops -- the 82nd Airborne Division, and the 101st Airborne from Clarksville, the division in which Jimi Hendrix had recently served. After four days of rioting, one of the bloodiest riots in US history was at an end, with forty-three people dead (of whom thirty-three were Black and only one was a policeman). Official counts had 1,189 people injured, and over 7,200 arrests, almost all of them of Black people. A lot of the histories written later say that Black-owned businesses were spared during the riots, but that wasn't really the case. For example, Joe's Record Shop, owned by Joe Von Battle, who had put out the first records by C.L. Franklin and his daughter Aretha, was burned down, destroying not only the stock of records for sale but the master tapes of hundreds of recordings of Black artists, many of them unreleased and so now lost forever. John Lee Hooker, one of the artists whose music Von Battle had released, soon put out a song, "The Motor City is Burning", about the events: [Excerpt: John Lee Hooker, "The Motor City is Burning"] But one business that did remain unburned was Motown, with the Hitsville studio going untouched by flames and unlooted. Motown legend has this being down to the rioters showing respect for the studio that had done so much for Detroit, but it seems likely to have just been luck. Although Motown wasn't completely unscathed -- a National Guard tank fired a shell through the building, leaving a gigantic hole, which Berry Gordy saw as soon as he got back from a business trip he'd been on during the rioting. That was what made Berry Gordy decide once and for all that things needed to change. Motown owned a whole row of houses near the studio, which they used as additional office space and for everything other than the core business of making records. Gordy immediately started to sell them, and move the admin work into temporary rented space. He hadn't announced it yet, and it would be a few years before the move was complete, but from that moment on, the die was cast. Motown was going to leave Detroit and move to Hollywood.

August 21, 1944... audiences tuned to NBC heard "The Best of the Big Bands" live from "The Famous Door" on 52nd Ave. in NYC... The Band That Played The Blues... The Woody Herman Orchestra with guest vocalist Carol Kaye. Playlist: Choppin Wood / Faithful Forever - Woody is vocalist / South of the Border - Carol Kaye, vocalist / Midnight Echoes / Little Old Dutch Garden - Woody, vocalist / Woodchopper's Ball / It's a Blue World / Blues on Parade. Woody Herman was born on May 16, 1913 in Milwaukee, WI and died on Oct. 29, 1987 in West Hollywood, CA. ... His band often played music that was considered to be "cutting edge" and experimental. His recordings received many Grammy nominations. Track will be stored in the "Big Band / Jazz" Playlist.

This week Scott welcomes Sergio Vega of Deftones and Quicksand for a great conversation. After playing bass for Deftones since 2009, Sergio announced he was leaving the band earlier this year when contract negotiations broke down. Since then, he's gone back to focusing on his time on Quicksand; a post-hardcore group he founded all the way back in 1990.Scott and Sergio cover a lot of ground in this conversation. Things start out with discussion of Sergio's early life and musical influences. His parents were a crucial factor in exposing him to different types of music. Sergio's early influences rum the gamut and it's interesting to hear where he comes from. Punk and Hardcore music were, especially, a big influence that led him on his path.Other topics covered this week include early band stories, cassettes, early touring days, bass lessons with Carol Kaye, bass influences, how he wound up in Deftones, Jerry Cantrell, and more!As always, Scott goes over the guest's discography and gets some great stories from Sergio about the making of albums by Deftones and Quicksand. Quicksand released a new album, Distant Populations in 2021. Check it out at https://quicksandnyc.bandcamp.com/album/distant-populations We hope you enjoy Scott's talk with Sergio Vega and SHARE with a friend!

Dave played a gig!This week your buds run down the hot and spicy performance from Hot Bloods' first gig at Golden Dagger in Chicago. It was juicy!Also discussed: Gibson EB-0F Fuzztone, JoBo bought the Burst, Carol Kaye honored at NAMM, Taylor Hawkins, George Martin's Caribbean studio, the new collaboration between Balthazar Amps and Black Bobbin, Korg's acquisition of Darkglass and their new NTS-2 Oscilliscope, Meris continuing the delay pedal renaissance with the new LVX, Teenage Engineering releasing the new OP-1 Field.“We're the Gearbuds Podcast, we're not the Livebuds Podcast.”

Girls and Guitars, They're Wonderful!… Girls and Guitars MMC00054 Back in the day, it wasn't that common to see ladies whaling on guitar or to hear them rock until you drop, but they were there, sometimes fronting an act, but usually somewhere in the background. Things have changed, but those girls and their guitars were and are amazing. Find out about Mary Ford with Les Baxter, Wanda Jackson, the Queen of Rock-A-Billy, and Carol Kaye who is and was one of the most prolific bassists in history. Join the Midmodcasters, Craig, Paula, and Dave as they take us on a journey into the past to when girls playing guitars wasn't so common, but very special. Shoot us an email or drop us a call and share your thoughts about great mid-century Halloween-worthy TV and Movies. Email us: midmodcast@gmail.comFind us on Facebook, Twitter, and elsewhere. NOW AVAILABLE ON AMAZON PODCASTS! https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/search/The%20MidmodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Midmodcast Twitter: @midmodcast https://twitter.com/MidModcastOur Website: https://www.midmodcast.com CALL The Mid Modcast Message Line: 216-309-2204 We would love to hear from you, and we are always interested in new show ideas. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and give us a great review. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-midmodcast/id1521672835 Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy8yODQ4NDk1MC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/56KRzqjxzI1NTksjICLTsxOvercast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1521672835/the-midmodcast Anchor: https://anchor.fm/the-mid-modcast Thanks for being our friend. - You're Swell! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-mid-modcast/support Special thanks to "The Voice of The Mid-Modcast," Allen Marsh If you're looking for a Mid Century Modern home in Florida, contact our friend, Carrie here: https://www.metropolisrealestatesolutions.com/#/carrie-jones

By some estimations Carol Kaye has logged 10,000 recording sessions during a career spanning more than 60 years. Her playing can be heard on everything from industrial films and commercials, to TV show theme songs and movie soundtracks. As a member of the prolific group of Los Angeles studio musicians “The Wrecking Crew” she played on hit songs for Sonny & Cher, Nancy Sinatra, The Monkees, The Beach Boys and more! So get ready because we on today's show we are going to hear about 20 of those 10,000 tracks! Mini-Intro song by Niko Riley Main Theme song: Apache by Jorgan Ingmann Instagram @birp60406 Facebook @blueislandradio If you'd like to support the show visit Patreon.com/blueislandradio  

Legendary bass player Carol Kaye Guests on the Fake Show with host Jim Tofte...enjoy!!!

Kenny G might be popular, but is he any good? What makes a creative project good or bad?  What makes art/music good or bad for us? Are there things you used to think were good that you now think are bad? How about the reverse? When did your art start being "good"? What changed? This week, on the show!---Listening to Kenny G documentary: https://youtu.be/mmgg5XObNl8The Beatles cartoon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles_(TV_series)Bobby Sherman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_ShermanThe Osmonds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_OsmondsThe Partridge Family: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Partridge_FamilyThe Wrecking Crew: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrecking_Crew_(music)Carol Kaye: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_KayeCMJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMJDown In It by Nine Inch Nails: https://youtu.be/QrrEo3hZABUDig It by Skinny Puppy: https://youtu.be/CDKkRSUrTd8The demos for "Pretty Hate Machine" (also known as "Purest Feeling") can be found with internet searches: https://youtu.be/jxApZwq3_W8The Beatles "In My Life": https://youtu.be/YBcdt6DsLQALana Del Rey (covering Joni Mitchell): https://youtu.be/EqSvJU0xaqgLow excerpts from "Double Negative": https://youtu.be/jvEozu4ObfsScott Walker "Epizootics!": https://youtu.be/2Ih7KzKLLWANeil Diamond: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_DiamondThe Neilists: http://jinsai.blogspot.com/2015/07/la-history-neilists.htmlThe Police "So Lonely": https://youtu.be/MX6MvV8cbh8Quiet Riot: https://youtu.be/ZxgMGk9JPVABryan Adams "Run To You": https://youtu.be/MX6MvV8cbh8Bruce Springsteen "Atlantic City": https://youtu.be/M3eu1gW-bQ8Metallica "Battery": https://youtu.be/jYEDqj14zN8--Dee, Michael, and Anu:Anu Kirk:https://www.anukirk.comAnu on BandcampSid Luscious and The Pants on BandcampLuscious-235 on BandcampRêvenir on BandcampMichael Hateley:Lotus Mastering   http://lotusmastering.com/       Extra Fancy "You Look Like a Movie Star":https://youtu.be/0pE1TqlWHCkBaldyloks (Michael Hateley & John Napier):https://soundcloud.com/baldyloks-1Dee Madden:https://www.deemadden.com/Penal Colony “Blue 9” video:https://youtu.be/Fes9E3ea8FYDee Madden on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/artist/4jsYxJ4QxzoGn9t0HRllPk 

Episode one hundred and forty-six of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “Good Vibrations” by the Beach Boys, and the history of the theremin. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a ten-minute bonus episode available, on "You're Gonna Miss Me" by the Thirteenth Floor Elevators. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Resources There is no Mixcloud this week, because there were too many Beach Boys songs in the episode. I used many resources for this episode, most of which will be used in future Beach Boys episodes too. It's difficult to enumerate everything here, because I have been an active member of the Beach Boys fan community for twenty-four years, and have at times just used my accumulated knowledge for this. But the resources I list here are ones I've checked for specific things. Stephen McParland has published many, many books on the California surf and hot-rod music scenes, including several on both the Beach Boys and Gary Usher.  His books can be found at https://payhip.com/CMusicBooks Andrew Doe's Bellagio 10452 site is an invaluable resource. Jon Stebbins' The Beach Boys FAQ is a good balance between accuracy and readability. And Philip Lambert's Inside the Music of Brian Wilson is an excellent, though sadly out of print, musicological analysis of Wilson's music from 1962 through 67. I have also referred to Brian Wilson's autobiography, I Am Brian Wilson, and to Mike Love's, Good Vibrations: My Life as a Beach Boy. As a good starting point for the Beach Boys' music in general, I would recommend this budget-priced three-CD set, which has a surprisingly good selection of their material on it, including the single version of "Good Vibrations". Oddly, the single version of "Good Vibrations" is not on the The Smile Sessions box set. But an entire CD of outtakes of the track is, and that was the source for the session excerpts here. Information on Lev Termen comes from Theremin: Ether Music and Espionage by Albert Glinsky Transcript In ancient Greece, the god Hermes was a god of many things, as all the Greek gods were. Among those things, he was the god of diplomacy, he was a trickster god, a god of thieves, and he was a messenger god, who conveyed messages between realms. He was also a god of secret knowledge. In short, he was the kind of god who would have made a perfect spy. But he was also an inventor. In particular he was credited in Greek myth as having invented the lyre, an instrument somewhat similar to a guitar, harp, or zither, and as having used it to create beautiful sounds. But while Hermes the trickster god invented the lyre, in Greek myth it was a mortal man, Orpheus, who raised the instrument to perfection. Orpheus was a legendary figure, the greatest poet and musician of pre-Homeric Greece, and all sorts of things were attributed to him, some of which might even have been things that a real man of that name once did. He is credited with the "Orphic tripod" -- the classification of the elements into earth, water, and fire -- and with a collection of poems called the Rhapsodiae. The word Rhapsodiae comes from the Greek words rhaptein, meaning to stitch or sew, and ōidē, meaning song -- the word from which we get our word "ode", and  originally a rhapsōdos was someone who "stitched songs together" -- a reciter of long epic poems composed of several shorter pieces that the rhapsōdos would weave into one continuous piece. It's from that that we get the English word "rhapsody", which in the sixteenth century, when it was introduced into the language, meant a literary work that was a disjointed collection of patchwork bits, stitched together without much thought as to structure, but which now means a piece of music in one movement, but which has several distinct sections. Those sections may seem unrelated, and the piece may have an improvisatory feel, but a closer look will usually reveal relationships between the sections, and the piece as a whole will have a sense of unity. When Orpheus' love, Eurydice, died, he went down into Hades, the underworld where the souls of the dead lived, and played music so beautiful, so profound and moving, that the gods agreed that Orpheus could bring the soul of his love back to the land of the living. But there was one condition -- all he had to do was keep looking forward until they were both back on Earth. If he turned around before both of them were back in the mortal realm, she would disappear forever, never to be recovered. But of course, as you all surely know, and would almost certainly have guessed even if you didn't know because you know how stories work, once Orpheus made it back to our world he turned around and looked, because he lost his nerve and didn't believe he had really achieved his goal. And Eurydice, just a few steps away from her freedom, vanished back into the underworld, this time forever. [Excerpt: Blake Jones and the Trike Shop: "Mr. Theremin's Miserlou"] Lev Sergeyevich Termen was born in St. Petersburg, in what was then the Russian Empire, on the fifteenth of August 1896, by the calendar in use in Russia at that time -- the Russian Empire was still using the Julian calendar, rather than the Gregorian calendar used in most of the rest of the world, and in the Western world the same day was the twenty-seventh of August. Young Lev was fascinated both by science and the arts. He was trained as a cellist from an early age, but while he loved music, he found the process of playing the music cumbersome -- or so he would say later. He was always irritated by the fact that the instrument is a barrier between the idea in the musician's head and the sound -- that it requires training to play. As he would say later "I realised there was a gap between music itself and its mechanical production, and I wanted to unite both of them." Music was one of his big loves, but he was also very interested in physics, and was inspired by a lecture he saw from the physicist Abram Ioffe, who for the first time showed him that physics was about real, practical, things, about the movements of atoms and fields that really existed, not just about abstractions and ideals. When Termen went to university, he studied physics -- but he specifically wanted to be an experimental physicist, not a theoretician. He wanted to do stuff involving the real world. Of course, as someone who had the misfortune to be born in the late 1890s, Termen was the right age to be drafted when World War I started, but luckily for him the Russian Army desperately needed people with experience in the new invention that was radio, which was vital for wartime communications, and he spent the war in the Army radio engineering department, erecting radio transmitters and teaching other people how to erect them, rather than on the front lines, and he managed not only to get his degree in physics but also a diploma in music. But he was also becoming more and more of a Marxist sympathiser, even though he came from a relatively affluent background, and after the Russian Revolution he stayed in what was now the Red Army, at least for a time. Once Termen's Army service was over, he started working under Ioffe, working with him on practical applications of the audion, the first amplifying vacuum tube. The first one he found was that the natural capacitance of a human body when standing near a circuit can change the capacity of the circuit. He used that to create an invisible burglar alarm -- there was an antenna sending out radio waves, and if someone came within the transmitting field of the antenna, that would cause a switch to flip and a noise to be sounded. He was then asked to create a device for measuring the density of gases, outputting a different frequency for different densities. Because gas density can have lots of minor fluctuations because of air currents and so forth, he built a circuit that would cut out all the many harmonics from the audions he was using and give just the main frequency as a single pure tone, which he could listen to with headphones. That way,  slight changes in density would show up as a slight change in the tone he heard. But he noticed that again when he moved near the circuit, that changed the capacitance of the circuit and changed the tone he was hearing. He started moving his hand around near the circuit and getting different tones. The closer his hand got to the capacitor, the higher the note sounded. And if he shook his hand a little, he could get a vibrato, just like when he shook his hand while playing the cello. He got Ioffe to come and listen to him, and Ioffe said "That's an electronic Orpheus' lament!" [Excerpt: Blake Jones and the Trike Shop, "Mr. Theremin's Miserlou"] Termen figured out how to play Massenet's "Elegy" and Saint-Saens' "The Swan" using this system. Soon the students were all fascinated, telling each other "Termen plays Gluck on a voltmeter!" He soon figured out various refinements -- by combining two circuits, using the heterodyne principle, he could allow for far finer control. He added a second antenna, for volume control, to be used by the left hand -- the right hand would choose the notes, while the left hand would change the volume, meaning the instrument could be played without touching it at all. He called the instrument the "etherphone",  but other people started calling it the termenvox -- "Termen's voice". Termen's instrument was an immediate sensation, as was his automatic burglar alarm, and he was invited to demonstrate both of them to Lenin. Lenin was very impressed by Termen -- he wrote to Trotsky later talking about Termen's inventions, and how the automatic burglar alarm might reduce the number of guards needed to guard a perimeter. But he was also impressed by Termen's musical invention. Termen held his hands to play through the first half of a melody, before leaving the Russian leader to play the second half by himself -- apparently he made quite a good job of it. Because of Lenin's advocacy for his work, Termen was sent around the Soviet Union on a propaganda tour -- what was known as an "agitprop tour", in the familiar Soviet way of creating portmanteau words. In 1923 the first piece of music written specially for the instrument was performed by Termen himself with the Leningrad Philharmonic, Andrey Paschenko's Symphonic Mystery for Termenvox and Orchestra. The score for that was later lost, but has been reconstructed, and the piece was given a "second premiere" in 2020 [Excerpt: Andrey Paschenko, "Symphonic Mystery for Termenvox and Orchestra" ] But the musical instrument wasn't the only scientific innovation that Termen was working on. He thought he could reverse death itself, and bring the dead back to life.  He was inspired in this by the way that dead organisms could be perfectly preserved in the Siberian permafrost. He thought that if he could only freeze a dead person in the permafrost, he could then revive them later -- basically the same idea as the later idea of cryogenics, although Termen seems to have thought from the accounts I've read that all it would take would be to freeze and then thaw them, and not to have considered the other things that would be necessary to bring them back to life. Termen made two attempts to actually do this, or at least made preliminary moves in that direction. The first came when his assistant, a twenty-year-old woman, died of pneumonia. Termen was heartbroken at the death of someone so young, who he'd liked a great deal, and was convinced that if he could just freeze her body for a while he could soon revive her. He talked with Ioffe about this -- Ioffe was friends with the girl's family -- and Ioffe told him that he thought that he was probably right and probably could revive her. But he also thought that it would be cruel to distress the girl's parents further by discussing it with them, and so Termen didn't get his chance to experiment. He was even keener on trying his technique shortly afterwards, when Lenin died. Termen was a fervent supporter of the Revolution, and thought Lenin was a great man whose leadership was still needed -- and he had contacts within the top echelons of the Kremlin. He got in touch with them as soon as he heard of Lenin's death, in an attempt to get the opportunity to cryopreserve his corpse and revive him. Sadly, by this time it was too late. Lenin's brain had been pickled, and so the opportunity to resurrect him as a zombie Lenin was denied forever. Termen was desperately interested in the idea of bringing people back from the dead, and he wanted to pursue it further with his lab, but he was also being pushed to give demonstrations of his music, as well as doing security work -- Ioffe, it turned out, was also working as a secret agent, making various research trips to Germany that were also intended to foment Communist revolution. For now, Termen was doing more normal security work -- his burglar alarms were being used to guard bank vaults and the like, but this was at the order of the security state. But while Termen was working on his burglar alarms and musical instruments and attempts to revive dead dictators, his main project was his doctoral work, which was on the TV. We've said before in this podcast that there's no first anything, and that goes just as much for inventions as it does for music. Most inventions build on work done by others, which builds on work done by others, and so there were a lot of people building prototype TVs at this point. In Britain we tend to say "the inventor of the TV" was John Logie Baird, but Baird was working at the same time as people like the American Charles Francis Jenkins and the Japanese inventor Kenjiro Takayanagi, all of them building on earlier work by people like Archibald Low. Termen's prototype TV, the first one in Russia, came slightly later than any of those people, but was created more or less independently, and was more advanced in several ways, with a bigger screen and better resolution. Shortly after Lenin's death, Termen was invited to demonstrate his invention to Stalin, who professed himself amazed at the "magic mirror". [Excerpt: Blake Jones and the Trike Shop, "Astronauts in Trouble"] Termen was sent off to tour Europe giving demonstrations of his inventions, particularly his musical instrument. It was on this trip that he started using the Romanisation "Leon Theremin", and this is how Western media invariably referred to him. Rather than transliterate the Cyrillic spelling of his birth name, he used the French spelling his Huguenot ancestors had used before they emigrated to Russia, and called himself Leo or Leon rather than Lev. He was known throughout his life by both names, but said to a journalist in 1928 "First of all, I am not Tair-uh-MEEN. I wrote my name with French letters for French pronunciation. I am Lev Sergeyevich Tair-MEN.". We will continue to call him Termen, partly because he expressed that mild preference (though again, he definitely went by both names through choice) but also to distinguish him from the instrument, because while his invention remained known in Russia as the termenvox, in the rest of the world it became known as the theremin. He performed at the Paris Opera, and the New York Times printed a review saying "Some musicians were extremely pessimistic about the possibilities of the device, because at times M. Theremin played lamentably out of tune. But the finest Stradivarius, in the hands of a tyro, can give forth frightful sounds. The fact that the inventor was able to perform certain pieces with absolute precision proves that there remains to be solved only questions of practice and technique." Termen also came to the UK, where he performed in front of an audience including George Bernard Shaw, Arnold Bennett, Henry Wood and others. Arnold Bennett was astonished, but Bernard Shaw, who had very strong opinions about music, as anyone who has read his criticism will be aware, compared the sound unfavourably to that of a comb and paper. After performing in Europe, Termen made his way to the US, to continue his work of performance, propagandising for the Soviet Revolution, and trying to license the patents for his inventions, to bring money both to him and to the Soviet state. He entered the US on a six-month visitor's visa, but stayed there for eleven years, renewing the visa every six months. His initial tour was a success, though at least one open-air concert had to be cancelled because, as the Communist newspaper the Daily Worker put it, "the weather on Saturday took such a counter-revolutionary turn". Nicolas Slonimsky, the musicologist we've encountered several times before, and who would become part of Termen's circle in the US, reviewed one of the performances, and described the peculiar audiences that Termen was getting -- "a considerable crop of ladies and gentlemen engaged in earnest exploration of the Great Beyond...the mental processes peculiar to believers in cosmic vibrations imparted a beatific look to some of the listeners. Boston is a seat of scientific religion; before he knows it Professor Theremin may be proclaimed Krishnamurti and sanctified as a new deity". Termen licensed his patents on the invention to RCA, who in 1929 started mass-producing the first ever theremins for general use. Termen also started working with the conductor Leopold Stokowski, including developing a new kind of theremin for Stokowski's orchestra to use, one with a fingerboard played like a cello. Stokowski said "I believe we shall have orchestras of these electric instruments. Thus will begin a new era in music history, just as modern materials and methods of construction have produced a new era of architecture." Possibly of more interest to the wider public, Lennington Sherwell, the son of an RCA salesman, took up the theremin professionally, and joined the band of Rudy Vallee, one of the most popular singers of the period. Vallee was someone who constantly experimented with new sounds, and has for example been named as the first band leader to use an electric banjo, and Vallee liked the sound of the theremin so much he ordered a custom-built left-handed one for himself. Sherwell stayed in Vallee's band for quite a while, and performed with him on the radio and in recording sessions, but it's very difficult to hear him in any of the recordings -- the recording equipment in use in 1930 was very primitive, and Vallee had a very big band with a lot of string and horn players, and his arrangements tended to have lots of instruments playing in unison rather than playing individual lines that are easy to differentiate. On top of that, the fashion at the time when playing the instrument was to try and have it sound as much like other instruments as possible -- to duplicate the sound of a cello or violin or clarinet, rather than to lean in to the instrument's own idiosyncracies. I *think* though that I can hear Sherwell's playing in the instrumental break of Vallee's big hit "You're Driving Me Crazy" -- certainly it was recorded at the time that Sherwell was in the band, and there's an instrument in there with a very pure tone, but quite a lot of vibrato, in the mid range, that seems only to be playing in the break and not the rest of the song. I'm not saying this is *definitely* a theremin solo on one of the biggest hits of 1930, but I'm not saying it's not, either: [Excerpt: Rudy Vallee, "You're Driving Me Crazy" ] Termen also invented a light show to go along with his instrument -- the illumovox, which had a light shining through a strip of gelatin of different colours, which would be rotated depending on the pitch of the theremin, so that lower notes would cause the light to shine a deep red, while the highest notes would make it shine a light blue, with different shades in between. By 1930, though, Termen's fortunes had started to turn slightly. Stokowski kept using theremins in the orchestra for a while, especially the fingerboard models to reinforce the bass, but they caused problems. As Slonimsky said "The infrasonic vibrations were so powerful...that they hit the stomach physically, causing near-nausea in the double-bass section of the orchestra". Fairly soon, the Theremin was overtaken by other instruments, like the ondes martenot, an instrument very similar to the theremin but with more precise control, and with a wider range of available timbres. And in 1931, RCA was sued by another company for patent infringement with regard to the Theremin -- the De Forest Radio Company had patents around the use of vacuum tubes in music, and they claimed damages of six thousand dollars, plus RCA had to stop making theremins. Since at the time, RCA had only made an initial batch of five hundred instruments total, and had sold 485 of them, many of them as promotional loss-leaders for future batches, they had actually made a loss of three hundred dollars even before the six thousand dollar damages, and decided not to renew their option on Termen's patents. But Termen was still working on his musical ideas. Slonimsky also introduced Termen to the avant-garde composer and theosophist Henry Cowell, who was interested in experimental sounds, and used to do things like play the strings inside the piano to get a different tone: [Excerpt: Henry Cowell, "Aeolian Harp and Sinister Resonance"] Cowell was part of a circle of composers and musicologists that included Edgard Varese, Charles Ives, and Charles Seeger and Ruth Crawford, who Cowell would introduce to each other. Crawford would later marry Seeger, and they would have several children together, including the folk singer Peggy Seeger, and Crawford would also adopt Seeger's son Pete. Cowell and Termen would together invent the rhythmicon, the first ever drum machine, though the rhythmicon could play notes as well as rhythms. Only two rhythmicons were made while Termen was in the US. The first was owned by Cowell. The second, improved, model was bought by Charles Ives, but bought as a gift for Cowell and Slonimsky to use in their compositions. Sadly, both rhythmicons eventually broke down, and no recording of either is known to exist. Termen started to get further and further into debt, especially as the Great Depression started to hit, and he also had a personal loss -- he'd been training a student and had fallen in love with her, although he was married. But when she married herself, he cut off all ties with her, though Clara Rockmore would become one of the few people to use the instrument seriously and become a real virtuoso on it. He moved into other fields, all loosely based around the same basic ideas of detecting someone's distance from an object. He built electronic gun detectors for Alcatraz and Sing-Sing prisons, and he came up with an altimeter for aeroplanes. There was also a "magic mirror" -- glass that appeared like a mirror until it was backlit, at which point it became transparent. This was put into shop windows along with a proximity detector -- every time someone stepped close to look at their reflection, the reflection would disappear and be replaced with the objects behind the mirror. He was also by this point having to spy for the USSR on a more regular basis. Every week he would meet up in a cafe with two diplomats from the Russian embassy, who would order him to drink several shots of vodka -- the idea was that they would loosen his inhibitions enough that he would not be able to hide things from them -- before he related various bits of industrial espionage he'd done for them. Having inventions of his own meant he was able to talk with engineers in the aerospace industry and get all sorts of bits of information that would otherwise not have been available, and he fed this back to Moscow. He eventually divorced his first wife, and remarried -- a Black American dancer many years his junior named Lavinia Williams, who would be the great love of his life. This caused some scandal in his social circle, more because of her race than the age gap. But by 1938 he had to leave the US. He'd been there on a six-month visa, which had been renewed every six months for more than a decade, and he'd also not been paying income tax and was massively in debt. He smuggled himself back to the USSR, but his wife was, at the last minute, not allowed on to the ship with him. He'd had to make the arrangements in secret, and hadn't even told her of the plans, so the first she knew was when he disappeared. He would later claim that the Soviets had told him she would be sent for two weeks later, but she had no knowledge of any of this. For decades, Lavinia would not even know if her husband was dead or alive. [Excerpt: Blake Jones and the Trike Shop, "Astronauts in Trouble"] When Termen got back to the USSR, he found it had changed beyond recognition. Stalin's reign of terror was now well underway, and not only could he not find a job, most of the people who he'd been in contact with at the top of the Kremlin had been purged. Termen was himself arrested and tortured into signing a false confession to counter-revolutionary activities and membership of fascist organisations. He was sentenced to eight years in a forced labour camp, which in reality was a death sentence -- it was expected that workers there would work themselves to death on starvation rations long before their sentences were up -- but relatively quickly he was transferred to a special prison where people with experience of aeronautical design were working. He was still a prisoner, but in conditions not too far removed from normal civilian life, and allowed to do scientific and technical work with some of the greatest experts in the field -- almost all of whom had also been arrested in one purge or another. One of the pieces of work Termen did was at the direct order of Laventy Beria, Stalin's right-hand man and the architect of most of the terrors of the Stalinist regime. In Spring 1945, while the USA and USSR were still supposed to be allies in World War II, Beria wanted to bug the residence of the US ambassador, and got Termen to design a bug that would get past all the normal screenings. The bug that Termen designed was entirely passive and unpowered -- it did nothing unless a microwave beam of a precise frequency was beamed at it, and only then did it start transmitting. It was placed in a wooden replica of the Great Seal of the United States, presented to the ambassador by a troupe of scouts as a gesture of friendship between the two countries. The wood in the eagle's beak was thin enough to let the sound through. It remained there for seven years, through the tenures of four ambassadors, only being unmasked when a British radio operator accidentally tuned to the frequency it was transmitting on and was horrified to hear secret diplomatic conversations. Upon its discovery, the US couldn't figure out how it worked, and eventually shared the information with MI5, who took eighteen months to reverse-engineer Termen's bug and come up with their own, which remained the standard bug in use for about a decade. The CIA's own attempts to reverse-engineer it failed altogether. It was also Termen who came up with that well-known bit of spycraft -- focussing an infra-red beam on a window pane, to use it to pick up the sound of conversations happening in the room behind it. Beria was so pleased with Termen's inventions that he got Termen to start bugging Stalin himself, so Beria would be able to keep track of Stalin's whims. Termen performed such great services for Beria that Beria actually allowed him to go free not long after his sentence was served. Not only that, but Beria nominated Termen for the Stalin Award, Class II, for his espionage work -- and Stalin, not realising that Termen had been bugging *him* as well as foreign powers, actually upgraded that to a Class I, the highest honour the Soviet state gave. While Termen was free, he found himself at a loose end, and ended up volunteering to work for the organisation he had been working for -- which went by many names but became known as the KGB from the 1950s onwards. He tried to persuade the government to let Lavinia, who he hadn't seen in eight years, come over and join him, but they wouldn't even allow him to contact her, and he eventually remarried. Meanwhile, after Stalin's death, Beria was arrested for his crimes, and charged under the same law that he had had Termen convicted under. Beria wasn't as lucky as Termen, though, and was executed. By 1964, Termen had had enough of the KGB, because they wanted him to investigate obvious pseudoscience -- they wanted him to look into aliens, UFOs, ESP... and telepathy. [Excerpt, The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations (early version)" "She's already working on my brain"] He quit and went back to civilian life.  He started working in the acoustics lab in Moscow Conservatory, although he had to start at the bottom because everything he'd been doing for more than a quarter of a century was classified. He also wrote a short book on electronic music. In the late sixties an article on him was published in the US -- the first sign any of his old friends had that he'd not  died nearly thirty years earlier. They started corresponding with him, and he became a minor celebrity again, but this was disapproved of by the Soviet government -- electronic music was still considered bourgeois decadence and not suitable for the Soviet Union, and all his instruments were smashed and he was sacked from the conservatory. He continued working in various technical jobs until the 1980s, and still continued inventing refinements of the theremin, although he never had any official support for his work. In the eighties, a writer tried to get him some sort of official recognition -- the Stalin Prize was secret -- and the university at which he was working sent a reply saying, in part, "L.S. Termen took part in research conducted by the department as an ordinary worker and he did not show enough creative activity, nor does he have any achievements on the basis of which he could be recommended for a Government decoration." By this time he was living in shared accommodation with a bunch of other people, one room to himself and using a shared bathroom, kitchen, and so on. After Glasnost he did some interviews and was asked about this, and said "I never wanted to make demands and don't want to now. I phoned the housing department about three months ago and inquired about my turn to have a new flat. The woman told me that my turn would come in five or six years. Not a very reassuring answer if one is ninety-two years old." In 1989 he was finally allowed out of the USSR again, for the first time in fifty-one years, to attend a UNESCO sponsored symposium on electronic music. Among other things, he was given, forty-eight years late, a letter that his old colleague Edgard Varese had sent about his composition Ecuatorial, which had originally been written for theremin. Varese had wanted to revise the work, and had wanted to get modified theremins that could do what he wanted, and had asked the inventor for help, but the letter had been suppressed by the Soviet government. When he got no reply, Varese had switched to using ondes martenot instead. [Excerpt: Edgard Varese, "Ecuatorial"] In the 1970s, after the death of his third wife, Termen had started an occasional correspondence with his second wife, Lavinia, the one who had not been able to come with him to the USSR and hadn't known if he was alive for so many decades. She was now a prominent activist in Haiti, having established dance schools in many Caribbean countries, and Termen still held out hope that they could be reunited, even writing her a letter in 1988 proposing remarriage. But sadly, less than a month after Termen's first trip outside the USSR, she died -- officially of a heart attack or food poisoning, but there's a strong suspicion that she was murdered by the military dictatorship for her closeness to Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the pro-democracy activist who later became President of Haiti. Termen was finally allowed to join the Communist Party in the spring of 1991, just before the USSR finally dissolved -- he'd been forbidden up to that point because of his conviction for counter-revolutionary crimes. He was asked by a Western friend why he'd done that when everyone else was trying to *leave* the Communist Party, and he explained that he'd made a promise to Lenin. In his final years he was researching immortality, going back to the work he had done in his youth, working with biologists, trying to find a way to restore elderly bodies to youthful vigour. But sadly he died in 1993, aged ninety-seven, before he achieved his goal. On one of his last trips outside the USSR, in 1991, he visited the US, and in California he finally got to hear the song that most people associate with his invention, even though it didn't actually feature a theremin: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations"] Back in the 1930s, when he was working with Slonimsky and Varese and Ives and the rest, Termen had set up the Theremin Studio, a sort of experimental arts lab, and in 1931 he had invited the musicologist, composer, and theoretician Joseph Schillinger to become a lecturer there. Schillinger had been one of the first composers to be really interested in the theremin, and had composed a very early piece written specifically for the instrument, the First Airphonic Suite: [Excerpt: Joseph Schillinger, "First Airphonic Suite"] But he was most influential as a theoretician. Schillinger believed that all of the arts were susceptible to rigorous mathematical analysis, and that you could use that analysis to generate new art according to mathematical principles, art that would be perfect. Schillinger planned to work with Termen to try to invent a machine that could compose, perform, and transmit music. The idea was that someone would be able to tune in a radio and listen to a piece of music in real time as it was being algorithmically composed and transmitted. The two men never achieved this, but Schillinger became very, very, respected as someone with a rigorous theory of musical structure -- though reading his magnum opus, the Schillinger System of Musical Composition, is frankly like wading through treacle. I'll read a short excerpt just to give an idea of his thinking: "On the receiving end, phasic stimuli produced by instruments encounter a metamorphic auditory integrator. This integrator represents the auditory apparatus as a whole and is a complex interdependent system. It consists of two receivers (ears), transmitters, auditory nerves, and a transformer, the auditory braincenter.  The response to a stimulus is integrated both quantitatively and selectively. The neuronic energy of response becomes the psychonic energy of auditory image. The response to stimuli and the process of integration are functional operations and, as such, can be described in mathematical terms , i.e., as  synchronization, addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc. But these integrative processes alone do not constitute the material of orchestration either.  The auditory image, whether resulting from phasic stimuli of an excitor or from selfstimulation of the auditory brain-center, can be described only in Psychological terms, of loudness, pitch, quality, etc. This leads us to the conclusion that the material of orchestration can be defined only as a group of conditions under which an integrated image results from a sonic stimulus subjected to an auditory response.  This constitutes an interdependent tripartite system, in which the existence of one component necessitates the existence of two others. The composer can imagine an integrated sonic form, yet he cannot transmit it to the auditor (unless telepathicaliy) without sonic stimulus and hearing apparatus." That's Schillinger's way of saying that if a composer wants someone to hear the music they've written, the composer needs a musical instrument and the listener needs ears and a brain. This kind of revolutionary insight made Schillinger immensely sought after in the early 1930s, and among his pupils were the swing bandleaders Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey, and the songwriter George Gershwin, who turned to Schillinger for advice when he was writing his opera Porgy and Bess: [Excerpt: Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong, "Here Come De Honey Man"] Another of his pupils was the trombonist and arranger Glenn Miller, who at that time was a session player working in pickup studio bands for people like Red Nichols. Miller spent some time studying with him in the early thirties, and applied those lessons when given the job of putting together arrangements for Ray Noble, his first prominent job. In 1938 Glenn Miller walked into a strip joint to see a nineteen-year-old he'd been told to take a look at. This was another trombonist, Paul Tanner, who was at the time working as a backing musician for the strippers. Miller had recently broken up his first big band, after a complete lack of success, and was looking to put together a new big band, to play arrangements in the style he had worked out while working for Noble. As Tanner later put it "he said, `Well, how soon can you come with me?' I said, `I can come right now.' I told him I was all packed, I had my toothbrush in my pocket and everything. And so I went with him that night, and I stayed with him until he broke the band up in September 1942." The new band spent a few months playing the kind of gigs that an unknown band can get, but they soon had a massive success with a song Miller had originally written as an arranging exercise set for him by Schillinger, a song that started out under the title "Miller's Tune", but soon became known worldwide as "Moonlight Serenade": [Excerpt: Glenn Miller, "Moonlight Serenade"] The Miller band had a lot of lineup changes in the four and a bit years it was together, but other than Miller himself there were only four members who were with that group throughout its career, from the early dates opening for  Freddie Fisher and His Schnickelfritzers right through to its end as the most popular band in America. They were piano player Chummy MacGregor, clarinet player Wilbur Schwartz, tenor sax player Tex Beneke, and Tanner. They played on all of Miller's big hits, like "In the Mood" and "Chattanooga Choo-Choo": [Excerpt: Glenn Miller, "Chattanooga Choo-Choo"] But in September 1942, the band broke up as the members entered the armed forces, and Tanner found himself in the Army while Miller was in the Air Force, so while both played in military bands, they weren't playing together, and Miller disappeared over the Channel, presumed dead, in 1944. Tanner became a session trombonist, based in LA, and in 1958 he found himself on a session for a film soundtrack with Dr. Samuel Hoffman. I haven't been able to discover for sure which film this was for, but the only film on which Hoffman has an IMDB credit for that year is that American International Pictures classic, Earth Vs The Spider: [Excerpt: Earth Vs The Spider trailer] Hoffman was a chiropodist, and that was how he made most of his living, but as a teenager in the 1930s he had been a professional violin player under the name Hal Hope. One of the bands he played in was led by a man named Jolly Coburn, who had seen Rudy Vallee's band with their theremin and decided to take it up himself. Hoffman had then also got a theremin, and started his own all-electronic trio, with a Hammond organ player, and with a cello-style fingerboard theremin played by William Schuman, the future Pulitzer Prize winning composer. By the 1940s, Hoffman was a full-time doctor, but he'd retained his Musicians' Union card just in case the odd gig came along, and then in 1945 he received a call from Miklos Rozsa, who was working on the soundtrack for Alfred Hitchcock's new film, Spellbound. Rozsa had tried to get Clara Rockmore, the one true virtuoso on the theremin playing at the time, to play on the soundtrack, but she'd refused -- she didn't do film soundtrack work, because in her experience they only wanted her to play on films about ghosts or aliens, and she thought it damaged the dignity of the instrument. Rozsa turned to the American Federation of Musicians, who as it turned out had precisely one theremin player who could read music and wasn't called Clara Rockmore on their books. So Dr. Samuel Hoffman, chiropodist, suddenly found himself playing on one of the most highly regarded soundtracks of one of the most successful films of the forties: [Excerpt: Miklos Rozsa, "Spellbound"] Rozsa soon asked Hoffman to play on another soundtrack, for the Billy Wilder film The Lost Weekend, another of the great classics of late forties cinema. Both films' soundtracks were nominated for the Oscar, and Spellbound's won, and Hoffman soon found himself in demand as a session player. Hoffman didn't have any of Rockmore's qualms about playing on science fiction and horror films, and anyone with any love of the genre will have heard his playing on genre classics like The Five Thousand Fingers of Dr T, The Thing From Another World, It Came From Outer Space, and of course Bernard Hermann's score for The Day The Earth Stood Still: [Excerpt: The Day The Earth Stood Still score] As well as on such less-than-classics as The Devil's Weed, Voodoo Island, The Mad Magician, and of course Billy The Kid Vs Dracula. Hoffman became something of a celebrity, and also recorded several albums of lounge music with a band led by Les Baxter, like the massive hit Music Out Of The Moon, featuring tracks like “Lunar Rhapsody”: [Excerpt: Samuel Hoffman, "Lunar Rhapsody”] [Excerpt: Neil Armstrong] That voice you heard there was Neil Armstrong, on Apollo 11 on its way back from the moon. He took a tape of Hoffman's album with him. But while Hoffman was something of a celebrity in the fifties, the work dried up almost overnight in 1958 when he worked at that session with Paul Tanner. The theremin is a very difficult instrument to play, and while Hoffman was a good player, he wasn't a great one -- he was getting the work because he was the best in a very small pool of players, not because he was objectively the best there could be. Tanner noticed that Hoffman was having quite some difficulty getting the pitching right in the session, and realised that the theremin must be a very difficult instrument to play because it had no markings at all. So he decided to build an instrument that had the same sound, but that was more sensibly controlled than just waving your hands near it. He built his own invention, the electrotheremin, in less than a week, despite never before having had any experience in electrical engineering. He built it using an oscillator, a length of piano wire and a contact switch that could be slid up and down the wire, changing the pitch. Two days after he finished building it, he was in the studio, cutting his own equivalent of Hoffman's forties albums, Music For Heavenly Bodies, including a new exotica version of "Moonlight Serenade", the song that Glenn Miller had written decades earlier as an exercise for Schillinger: [Excerpt: Paul Tanner, "Moonlight Serenade"] Not only could the electrotheremin let the player control the pitch more accurately, but it could also do staccato notes easily -- something that's almost impossible with an actual theremin. And, on top of that, Tanner was cheaper than Hoffman. An instrumentalist hired to play two instruments is paid extra, but not as much extra as paying for another musician to come to the session, and since Tanner was a first-call trombone player who was likely to be at the session *anyway*, you might as well hire him if you want a theremin sound, rather than paying for Hoffman. Tanner was an excellent musician -- he was a professor of music at UCLA as well as being a session player, and he authored one of the standard textbooks on jazz -- and soon he had cornered the market, leaving Hoffman with only the occasional gig. We will actually be seeing Hoffman again, playing on a session for an artist we're going to look at in a couple of months, but in LA in the early sixties, if you wanted a theremin sound, you didn't hire a theremin player, you hired Paul Tanner to play his electrotheremin -- though the instrument was so obscure that many people didn't realise he wasn't actually playing a theremin. Certainly Brian Wilson seems to have thought he was when he hired him for "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"] We talked briefly about that track back in the episode on "God Only Knows",   but three days after recording that, Tanner was called back into the studio for another session on which Brian Wilson wanted a theremin sound. This was a song titled "Good, Good, Good Vibrations", and it was inspired by a conversation he'd had with his mother as a child. He'd asked her why dogs bark at some people and not at others, and she'd said that dogs could sense vibrations that people sent out, and some people had bad vibrations and some had good ones. It's possible that this came back to mind as he was planning the Pet Sounds album, which of course ends with the sound of his own dogs barking. It's also possible that he was thinking more generally about ideas like telepathy -- he had been starting to experiment with acid by this point, and was hanging around with a crowd of people who were proto-hippies, and reading up on a lot of the mystical ideas that were shared by those people. As we saw in the last episode, there was a huge crossover between people who were being influenced by drugs, people who were interested in Eastern religion, and people who were interested in what we now might think of as pseudo-science but at the time seemed to have a reasonable amount of validity, things like telepathy and remote viewing. Wilson had also had exposure from an early age to people claiming psychic powers. Jo Ann Marks, the Wilson family's neighbour and the mother of former Beach Boy David Marks, later had something of a minor career as a psychic to the stars (at least according to obituaries posted by her son) and she would often talk about being able to sense "vibrations". The record Wilson started out making in February 1966 with the Wrecking Crew was intended as an R&B single, and was also intended to sound *strange*: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: Gold Star 1966-02-18"] At this stage, the song he was working on was a very straightforward verse-chorus structure, and it was going to be an altogether conventional pop song. The verses -- which actually ended up used in the final single, are dominated by organ and Ray Pohlman's bass: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: Gold Star 1966-02-18"] These bear a strong resemblance to the verses of "Here Today", on the Pet Sounds album which the Beach Boys were still in the middle of making: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Here Today (instrumental)"] But the chorus had far more of an R&B feel than anything the Beach Boys had done before: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: Gold Star 1966-02-18"] It did, though, have precedent. The origins of the chorus feel come from "Can I Get a Witness?", a Holland-Dozier-Holland song that had been a hit for Marvin Gaye in 1963: [Excerpt: Marvin Gaye, "Can I Get a Witness?"] The Beach Boys had picked up on that, and also on its similarity to the feel of Lonnie Mack's instrumental cover version of Chuck Berry's "Memphis, Tennessee", which, retitled "Memphis", had also been a hit in 1963, and in 1964 they recorded an instrumental which they called "Memphis Beach" while they were recording it but later retitled "Carl's Big Chance", which was credited to Brian and Carl Wilson, but was basically just playing the "Can I Get a Witness" riff over twelve-bar blues changes, with Carl doing some surf guitar over the top: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Carl's Big Chance"] The "Can I Get a Witness" feel had quickly become a standard piece of the musical toolkit – you might notice the resemblance between that riff and the “talking 'bout my generation” backing vocals on “My Generation” by the Who, for example. It was also used on "The Boy From New York City", a hit on Red Bird Records by the Ad-Libs: [Excerpt: The Ad-Libs, "The Boy From New York City"] The Beach Boys had definitely been aware of that record -- on their 1965 album Summer Days... And Summer Nights! they recorded an answer song to it, "The Girl From New York City": [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "The Girl From New York City"] And you can see how influenced Brian was by the Ad-Libs record by laying the early instrumental takes of the "Good Vibrations" chorus from this February session under the vocal intro of "The Boy From New York City". It's not a perfect match, but you can definitely hear that there's an influence there: [Excerpt: "The Boy From New York City"/"Good Vibrations"] A few days later, Brian had Carl Wilson overdub some extra bass, got a musician in to do a jaw harp overdub, and they also did a guide vocal, which I've sometimes seen credited to Brian and sometimes Carl, and can hear as both of them depending on what I'm listening for. This guide vocal used a set of placeholder lyrics written by Brian's collaborator Tony Asher, which weren't intended to be a final lyric: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations (first version)"] Brian then put the track away for a month, while he continued work on the Pet Sounds album. At this point, as best we can gather, he was thinking of it as something of a failed experiment. In the first of the two autobiographies credited to Brian (one whose authenticity is dubious, as it was largely put together by a ghostwriter and Brian later said he'd never even read it) he talks about how he was actually planning to give the song to Wilson Pickett rather than keep it for the Beach Boys, and one can definitely imagine a Wilson Pickett version of the song as it was at this point. But Brian's friend Danny Hutton, at that time still a minor session singer who had not yet gone on to form the group that would become Three Dog Night, asked Brian if *he* could have the song if Brian wasn't going to use it. And this seems to have spurred Brian into rethinking the whole song. And in doing so he was inspired by his very first ever musical memory. Brian has talked a lot about how the first record he remembers hearing was when he was two years old, at his maternal grandmother's house, where he heard the Glenn Miller version of "Rhapsody in Blue", a three-minute cut-down version of Gershwin's masterpiece, on which Paul Tanner had of course coincidentally played: [Excerpt: The Glenn Miller Orchestra, "Rhapsody in Blue"] Hearing that music, which Brian's mother also played for him a lot as a child, was one of the most profoundly moving experiences of Brian's young life, and "Rhapsody in Blue" has become one of those touchstone pieces that he returns to again and again. He has recorded studio versions of it twice, in the mid-nineties with Van Dyke Parks: [Excerpt: Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks, "Rhapsody in Blue"] and in 2010 with his solo band, as the intro and outro of an album of Gershwin covers: [Excerpt: Brian Wilson, "Rhapsody in Blue"] You'll also often see clips of him playing "Rhapsody in Blue" when sat at the piano -- it's one of his go-to songs. So he decided he was going to come up with a song that was structured like "Rhapsody in Blue" -- what publicist Derek Taylor would later describe as a "pocket symphony", but "pocket rhapsody" would possibly be a better term for it. It was going to be one continuous song, but in different sections that would have different instrumentation and different feelings to them -- he'd even record them in different studios to get different sounds for them, though he would still often have the musicians run through the whole song in each studio. He would mix and match the sections in the edit. His second attempt to record the whole track, at the start of April, gave a sign of what he was attempting, though he would not end up using any of the material from this session: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: Gold Star 1966-04-09" around 02:34] Nearly a month later, on the fourth of May, he was back in the studio -- this time in Western Studios rather than Gold Star where the previous sessions had been held, with yet another selection of musicians from the Wrecking Crew, plus Tanner, to record another version. This time, part of the session was used for the bridge for the eventual single: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys: "Good Vibrations: Western 1966-05-04 Second Chorus and Fade"] On the twenty-fourth of May the Wrecking Crew, with Carl Wilson on Fender bass (while Lyle Ritz continued to play string bass, and Carol Kaye, who didn't end up on the finished record at all, but who was on many of the unused sessions, played Danelectro), had another attempt at the track, this time in Sunset Studios: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys: "Good Vibrations: Sunset Sound 1966-05-24 (Parts 2&3)"] Three days later, another group of musicians, with Carl now switched to rhythm guitar, were back in Western Studios recording this: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys: "Good Vibrations: Western 1966-05-27 Part C" from 2:52] The fade from that session was used in the final track. A few days later they were in the studio again, a smaller group of people with Carl on guitar and Brian on piano, along with Don Randi on electric harpsichord, Bill Pitman on electric bass, Lyle Ritz on string bass and Hal Blaine on drums. This time there seems to have been another inspiration, though I've never heard it mentioned as an influence. In March, a band called The Association, who were friends with the Beach Boys, had released their single "Along Comes Mary", and by June it had become a big hit: [Excerpt: The Association, "Along Comes Mary"] Now the fuzz bass part they were using on the session on the second of June sounds to my ears very, very, like that intro: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations (Inspiration) Western 1966-06-02" from 01:47] That session produced the basic track that was used for the choruses on the final single, onto which the electrotheremin was later overdubbed as Tanner wasn't at that session. Some time around this point, someone suggested to Brian that they should use a cello along with the electrotheremin in the choruses, playing triplets on the low notes. Brian has usually said that this was Carl's idea, while Brian's friend Van Dyke Parks has always said that he gave Brian the idea. Both seem quite certain of this, and neither has any reason to lie, so I suspect what might have happened is that Parks gave Brian the initial idea to have a cello on the track, while Carl in the studio suggested having it specifically play triplets. Either way, a cello part by Jesse Erlich was added to those choruses. There were more sessions in June, but everything from those sessions was scrapped. At some point around this time, Mike Love came up with a bass vocal lyric, which he sang along with the bass in the choruses in a group vocal session. On August the twenty-fourth, two months after what one would think at this point was the final instrumental session, a rough edit of the track was pulled together. By this point the chorus had altered quite a bit. It had originally just been eight bars of G-flat, four bars of B-flat, then four more bars of G-flat. But now Brian had decided to rework an idea he had used in "California Girls". In that song, each repetition of the line "I wish they all could be California" starts a tone lower than the one before. Here, after the bass hook line is repeated, everything moves up a step, repeats the line, and then moves up another step: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: [Alternate Edit] 1966-08-24"] But Brian was dissatisfied with this version of the track. The lyrics obviously still needed rewriting, but more than that, there was a section he thought needed totally rerecording -- this bit: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations: [Alternate Edit] 1966-08-24"] So on the first of September, six and a half months after the first instrumental session for the song, the final one took place. This had Dennis Wilson on organ, Tommy Morgan on harmonicas, Lyle Ritz on string bass, and Hal Blaine and Carl Wilson on percussion, and replaced that with a new, gentler, version: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys: "Good Vibrations (Western 1966-09-01) [New Bridge]"] Well, that was almost the final instrumental session -- they called Paul Tanner in to a vocal overdub session to redo some of the electrotheremin parts, but that was basically it. Now all they had to do was do the final vocals. Oh, and they needed some proper lyrics. By this point Brian was no longer working with Tony Asher. He'd started working with Van Dyke Parks on some songs, but Parks wasn't interested in stepping into a track that had already been worked on so long, so Brian eventually turned to Mike Love, who'd already come up with the bass vocal hook, to write the lyrics. Love wrote them in the car, on the way to the studio, dictating them to his wife as he drove, and they're actually some of his best work. The first verse grounds everything in the sensory, in the earthy. He makes a song originally about *extra* -sensory perception into one about sensory perception -- the first verse covers sight, sound, and smell: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations"] Carl Wilson was chosen to sing the lead vocal, but you'll notice a slight change in timbre on the line "I hear the sound of a" -- that's Brian stepping into double him on the high notes. Listen again: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations"] For the second verse, Love's lyric moves from the sensory grounding of the first verse to the extrasensory perception that the song has always been about, with the protagonist knowing things about the woman who's the object of the song without directly perceiving them. The record is one of those where I wish I was able to play the whole thing for you, because it's a masterpiece of structure, and of editing, and of dynamics. It's also a record that even now is impossible to replicate properly on stage, though both its writers in their live performances come very close. But while someone in the audience for either the current touring Beach Boys led by Mike Love or for Brian Wilson's solo shows might come away thinking "that sounded just like the record", both have radically different interpretations of it even while sticking close to the original arrangement. The touring Beach Boys' version is all throbbing strangeness, almost garage-rock, emphasising the psychedelia of the track: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations (live 2014)"] While Brian Wilson's live version is more meditative, emphasising the gentle aspects: [Excerpt Brian Wilson, "Good Vibrations (live at the Roxy)"] But back in 1966, there was definitely no way to reproduce it live with a five-person band. According to Tanner, they actually asked him if he would tour with them, but he refused -- his touring days were over, and also he felt he would look ridiculous, a middle-aged man on stage with a bunch of young rock and roll stars, though apparently they offered to buy him a wig so he wouldn't look so out of place. When he wouldn't tour with them, they asked him where they could get a theremin, and he pointed them in the direction of Robert Moog. Moog -- whose name is spelled M-o-o-g and often mispronounced "moog", had been a teenager in 1949, when he'd seen a schematic for a theremin in an electronic hobbyist magazine, after Samuel Hoffman had brought the instrument back into the limelight. He'd built his own, and started building others to sell to other hobbyists, and had also started branching out into other electronic instruments by the mid-sixties. His small company was the only one still manufacturing actual theremins, but when the Beach Boys came to him and asked him for one, they found it very difficult to control, and asked him if he could do anything simpler. He came up with a ribbon-controlled oscillator, on the same principle as Tanner's electro-theremin, but even simpler to operate, and the Beach Boys bought it and gave it to Mike Love to play on stage. All he had to do was run his finger up and down a metallic ribbon, with the positions of the notes marked on it, and it would come up with a good approximation of the electro-theremin sound. Love played this "woo-woo machine" as he referred to it, on stage for several years: [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Good Vibrations (live in Hawaii 8/26/67)"] Moog was at the time starting to build his first synthesisers, and having developed that ribbon-control mechanism he decided to include it in the early models as one of several different methods of controlling the Moog synthesiser, the instrument that became synonymous with the synthesiser in the late sixties and early seventies: [Excerpt: Gershon Kingsley and Leonid Hambro, "Rhapsody in Blue" from Switched-On Gershwin] "Good Vibrations" became the Beach Boys' biggest ever hit -- their third US number one, and their first to make number one in the UK. Brian Wilson had managed, with the help of his collaborators, to make something that combined avant-garde psychedelic music and catchy pop hooks, a truly experimental record that was also a genuine pop classic. To this day, it's often cited as the greatest single of all time. But Brian knew he could do better. He could be even more progressive. He could make an entire album using the same techniques as "Good Vibrations", one where themes could recur, where sections could be edited together and songs could be constructed in the edit. Instead of a pocket symphony, he could make a full-blown teenage symphony to God. All he had to do was to keep looking forward, believe he could achieve his goal, and whatever happened, not lose his nerve and turn back. [Excerpt: The Beach Boys, "Smile Promo" ]

Do you like bass? Well, so did Carol Kaye, one of the dozens of legendary session musicians we'll be profiling on today's episode. Don't know what a session musician is? You're in luck -- this episode is a full-on "session" session in which we explain the hidden histories behind the following squads of hired-gun studio instrumentalists: (1) The Wrecking Crew; (2) The Nashville A-Team; (3) The Funk Brothers; (4) The Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section. Featuring music from The Association, Roy Orbison, The Gants, and more. Wanna hear the full songs? Go to tinyurl.com/spotify-cvc.

In this minisode, Erin and Caitie discuss Women's History month! Specifically, Rock-N-Roll's first lady, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, and one of the most prolific session bassists of all time, Carol Kaye. Music On The Move Studios Links: www.musiconthemovestudios.com https://www.instagram.com/musiconthemovestudios https://m.facebook.com/motmstudios Theme Song: "Shakin' In My Boots" By Erin McLendon --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/paradoxjukebox/support

Today the guys are rounding out the rest of the greatest hits albums in Jay's collection. To kick things off, they contemplate what babies are doing while in the womb before revisiting some old favorites. We also find out the boys are bad at surfing, hear about a couple of albums that are mostly covers but are 100% better than the originals, and learn about how the people in Jay's house are really good at spotting music that has been sampled. And to wrap things up, the guys discuss the greatness of Carol Kaye and the greatest hits of their lives Albums discussed this week: The Byrds - Greatest Hits Eric Clapton - History of Eric Clapton Joe Cocker - Greatest Hits Eagles - Their Greatest Hits Little River Band - Greatest Hits Rolling Stones - Made in the Shade Santana - Greatest Hits Cat Stevens - Greatest Hits Three Dog Night - Joy to the World: Their Greatest Hits The Beach Boys - Endless Summer Find this week's playlist here: https://open.spotify.com/user/mhmx98y3j8a1drluzo2rs4y7p --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/jayandjoeypod/support

It was a real pleasure to chat with Denny....his Dad and Mom inspired and taught me a lot through my interactions with them both at music school in California. So, when I had a chance to chat with Tommy's son Denny about the wonderful film - 'The Wrecking Crew' I couldn't wait to hear about some of the interesting history behind how the film came to life as well as some insight into Denny's own cinematic career. Listen in as Denny explains why his film about a legendary group of studio musicians took nearly 20 years to make. His film is all about the legendary group of 1960s Los Angeles session musicians who played on everything from Phil Spector classics and "Good Vibrations" to commercial jingles, Denny explains why the name The Wrecking Crew? Back in those early studio days of the 60s turning up for work in a Hawaiian shirt was not the done thing! Far to casual for the establishment - who  believed that this group of session musicians would 'wreck' the industry by dressing in a casual manner! The movie, started in 1996 with a roundtable conversation featuring his father, guitarist Tommy Tedesco (who died in 1997), bassist Carol Kaye,  drummer Hal Blaine and saxophonist Plas Johnson. The film premiered in 2008, starting in film festival and you can currently watch it on Amazon Prime. Denny goes onto explain the  daunting task of clearing 110 songs with 90 plus of them being top 40 hits.  Imagine paying dozens of musicians, publishers and labels residual royalties for their music to be included in the documentary! Denny never gave up and pitched the documentary to many people, he raised enough money to pay 297 session musicians whose names were on contracts for the songs used in the documentary film.  Denny still remains as dedicated as he did in 1996 to telling this very important story about 'The Wrecking Crew' and their invaluable contribution to the music industry told through this insightful and extremely enjoyable documentary film.  We've only really scratched the surface of Denny Tedesco and his own cinematic career - his time at IMAX and his latest documentary in production - 'The Immediate Family', and much, much more...To find out more about Denny Tedesco and connect follow the links below. 'The Wrecking Crew' documentary film on Amazon Denny Tedesco IMBD   A Big thanks to our friends at #AudioGeer and the team @shure for their awesome support! #Shure #MV7 #podcast mic! Please check out our Music Matters podcast on @spotifypodcasts Hey, also check out the New Music Matters Podcast Website- and Music Matters SWAG And a Big Shout and thanks for the support of the following: Rodney Hall FAME Recording Studios in Muscle Shoals, Alabama Shure microphones Affliction clothing  and Nigel J. my co-producer and voice over talent, all while running - Music Tribes Unite Media for our Podcast - Productions - Please, support, LIKE and helps us grow - check out our Social Media pages: