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We talk to Noelle RathCOMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand. 2 00:00:15That's 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all 1 00:00:21Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet? 2 00:00:28Hi, I haven't talked to you 10 years. Been 1000 years. How 1 00:00:35They celebration? I mean, I know there wasn't a big celebration, but 2 00:00:39It, it was great. It was a bit of a weekend though. Friday was great. I, yeah, I had a great day. We went out to dinner. We had a great Italian dinner and it was lovely and I got some nice presence and it was, it was great. And I, and I wrote a blog post about, 1 00:01:02I just read it cause my friend left so good. I'm going to pimp it out today. 2 00:01:06Oh, that's right. Your friend. Who's your friend that's there or was that 1 00:01:10God gone? So that's something I want to run by you is like how to in our middle age to navigate friendships that I don't think she listens to this. So I don't, but that for me are very challenging and that's just the truth. So anyway, continue. Well, we'll talk about that. 2 00:01:29Well, we'll get to that. Yeah. We'll get to that. So on Saturday I got the autopsy from my sister and she is no surprise. She died from alcohol intoxication. We already knew that or alcohol poisoning, but for some reason, my mom and I were both kind of fixated on like what her blood alcohol content was going to be. And I never really looked that much into it. You know, like I know 0.08 is the legal limit for driving, which I think ends up. Meaning like, even if you might even be in trouble, if you have one drink or two drinks 1 00:02:08For most people's weight, but I don't. Right, 2 00:02:11Right. Hers was 0.46. Yes. So I looked up on Wikipedia. Like there's actually a very handy little chart there that breaks down for you all the different levels and like what the impairments are and starting at 0.01. I mean, there's, there's observable differences, at least in terms of like, if you're hooked up to machines, I guess, and they're observing you, they may not be that noticeable to other people. But anyway, there's impairments that begin from drink one. 2 00:02:51And by the time you get to 0.3 is complete blackout. And by the time you get to 0.4 it's onset of coma and respiratory failure, he was at 0.4, six. Yeah. And 0.5 is just death. Like no, no bones about it. If your alcohol is the blood in your alcoholic, if the alcohol in your blood gets to 0.5, you're definitely dead. So it was like surprisingly so upsetting. I don't mean it's surprising that I don't know what, what, I'm not totally sure what it was about that number that had me so rocked. 2 00:03:34But I was talking to my mom and I was saying like, when I used to drink, when I was younger, I mean, I still drank. But like when I used to really drink for, for partying or whatever you wanna call it, if I got up to five drinks, I was definitely throwing up and I never measured my blood alcohol level. But I'm guessing it would have been, I mean, point, I don't know. I'm guessing it would have been up there. I don't know how you get, how you physically get don't you just start to throw up. And my mom said practice. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. It's tolerance and my blood turn cold when she said that just the chill went up my spine, like, okay. 2 00:04:22So she had to have been drinking a lot for a long time. She did not have she had the beginnings of cirrhosis, but it wasn't even like, yeah, because it took my dad 11 years to die from, from alcoholism and he had hepatitis. So it was like, it wasn't making a sense to me. It must be. I, I don't, I really don't know how to understand it. Aaron says th I mean, this is suicide. This is not, not that she was intending. It necessarily all those, she might've been, but he was saying like, you have to he's does this hand gesture, you have to be glug, glug, glug, ING, basically to, to get to that blood alcohol level is not an easy thing to do. 2 00:05:12And so here's what I want to say about it. She was the fifth person of my family to die from alcohol toxicity. And, you know, there was a member of my family that knew she was struggling with it knew she had gone to rehab and she went to rehab. I didn't know any of this. Oh yeah. She went to rehab. Yeah. And th and actually, until I told this family member that we got the, you know, cause of death, that person was telling me that person was not telling me that she was in rehab. That person was telling me that she went away for work. 2 00:05:55Like she's dead. What's, what's the secret that you're hiding. And this person also hid in her bedroom was a book, the big book of alcoholics anonymous. And this person put, hid that. And, and, and the way they were saying it was like, and of course, should I put that away because that's nobody's business. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? First of all, I hope to God that her kids know that this is what she died from. 1 00:06:29Not 2 00:06:30One should know, 1 00:06:32Oh one should know for so many reasons, if nothing else that, oh, this runs in our family and I should be really careful. 2 00:06:41Exactly. 1 00:06:42They don't. They might not know. I bet they don't know. 2 00:06:45So this is the way that denial kills us, because we don't want to talk about what's really going on. And so, so, so that when somebody is suffering to the point that they want to drink that much, they assume that they're the only person who's suffering like that. They assume that there's no help. They assume that there's no hope for them. Which really, I mean, talking about this stuff only, ever in genders, hope in people, you know what I mean? Because you can't tame it until you name it. It's not the expression. Yeah. So like, how the fuck is anybody supposed to tame, you know, these sicknesses, these, unless they know what they are. 1 00:07:25It's really, it's really unlike devastating to find out that like, you know, someone that you love. And even if you're, you know, whatever you're strange from them, it doesn't matter. It was suffering. That's the part I think right. Was suffering and felt alone. I mean, I think that's the devastating part. And that's what my father's suicide, the same thing. Like my dad, whether he did it on purpose or not the guy overdosed and my mother country and other family members continue to say that he died to something else. The fuck is wrong. It is insane. 1 00:08:06That is the insanity of this, of the disease of addiction and mental illness that we at all costs 2 00:08:16At all costs. I almost want, I almost want to say, and maybe I'll just say it here on this forum. I want to say that if you're somebody who is covering up for somebody else who is in, in, in harm's way with substance, you are a killer. Yep. 1 00:08:38Yep. You are. You were helping too. You were like an accomplice to murder. Like really. 2 00:08:43Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that that is probably going to sound harsh to a lot of people, but it's just the truth. It's just the truth. Because, because, and the reason I it's the truth is because if you did the opposite of that, if you said, wow, you're really struggling. I want to help you. What can I do to help you? Or if you don't get help, I'm afraid I can't continue in this relationship. If you're not doing that, then you are. And also the last person you're doing a favor for is that person. Right? You know what I mean? Like I, I have this thought that people at my family think that if we say that this is what she died from that we're tarnishing her memory. 2 00:09:24I mean, it's, 1 00:09:27It has tarnished already because of the disease and the secrecy. So like, if anything, you'd be shining a light and, and, and, and helping her memory to be one of the person had a disease that wasn't there. It was a no fault illness. 2 00:09:43Exactly. That's what I want to say too. It's it's not her fault. I mean, she was an alcoholic. It may have been her, it may have been her responsibility. I mean, it was her responsibility to do something about it, but yeah, nobody, nobody decides that they want to grow up one day and drink themselves to death. That's just not how it works. 1 00:10:06Oh my God, that's intense. Oh my God. 2 00:10:10It was intense. I, I, but you know, another win for me is that I totally dealt with it. I did not sweep it under the rug. I felt sad. I cried. I talked about it. I felt low, you know, that day and the next day. And, and, and I, you know, that's, all I can do is honor the feeling. 1 00:10:30Right. And, and I think like breaking the cycle right. Of denial. And also, yeah, the way that you talk about it, you know, that's a huge step in a direction that is the opposite direction of the secrecy and the like, shame, right? Like I think that shame, like busting the shame, breaking the shame and saying, you know, this is the truth. This is what happened. And, and shining a light and not being willing to let whatever shame for me anyway, whatever shame keeps us quiet. It really does. 1 00:11:10It really does allow other people to do the same. And I think that's the only way out of, of the hell, which is addiction and mental illness. And so you're doing that so good for you, but, oh, my Najah, that is like a hard weekend situation after you're. Okay. Okay. 2 00:11:32So, but now I want to hear about your, 1 00:11:35Okay. So I, it's interesting. I, as I, as I progress in age, I wonder, I noticing, and I wonder if you notice it, that things, what is it it's that they, they always say, oh, as you get older, you get stuck in your ways. And I was always like, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it's not true, but I think it's really hard for me to change my routines to change my, I it's just so strange. So I had this friend come lovely human being, but I, but you know, but we have one bedroom and I think I stayed in your house. 1 00:12:23Yeah. It was a terrible idea and no, and a no fault, again, a no fault situation. But what I need to do is say, Hey, the, the, this, this whole staying in our one bedroom on our sofa and our, our sleeper is not going to work unless you're a teenager and a small person. And don't mind being woken up at 5:00 AM, by a dog. And if any of those things are not true, you can't stay here. No, it has nothing to do with that. And it's interesting because it's like, it really brings up sort of like people pleasing stuff for me of like, well, if I ask someone to stay in a hotel, or if I, if I, if I do that, then that means I'm mean, or I'm not. 1 00:13:10I mean, that has really come up for me. And someone said to, or I read people pleasing and it really hit home is a form of manipulation. So, wow. So it is not, it is, that is really like at the root. And I was like, okay, well, if I look at it like that, I don't want to manipulate others. I really don't because I don't like being manipulated. So if I see people pleasing as that, instead of just like we're talking about and like covering up for someone, if I see it as dangerous and not acceptable behavior and something that I wouldn't want happen to me, then that helps me to make choices and how I interact in my relationships. 1 00:13:53So amazing reframe that's exactly what it is. And I could never put my finger on it before, because I think, well, people pleasing sounds nice, please. People sometimes, no, it's manipulation. It's total manipulation. And it, it, it it's, it's, it erodes the fabric of relationships and you can't have a real relationship. So like, right. I rely, I've also relied on other people like to say, oh, you know, they have a one bedroom. I'm not going to stay there, but people are going to do what they're going to do, whether it's for financial reasons, or it doesn't matter, they do their dance. That's not my responsibility. 1 00:14:34My responsibility is to not manipulate through people pleasing because I'm afraid to, to say, Hey, our place is teeny. You cannot stay here. Cause we'll all lose our mind. And she wanted to stay five nights originally. And I said, no, no, no. I said three. And we left Santa Barbara for one, I took her away to Santa Barbara, which was the smartest thing I could have done just for space reasons. And, but anyway, but I'm just learning like, as I get older, like there are things that used to be negotiable for me that are non-negotiable in terms of like sleep. I need a certain amount of sleep for my mental health and physical health. 1 00:15:15I need a certain amount of, I have to respect my husband's space and sleep, and I have a dog and it's a whole different thing. And the dog, I brought this dog into our lives. So to say to the dog, you have to behave differently because we have a guest and you're you're three months old, 3.5 months old is also not okay. I mean, look, the dog is fine. And I, but like learning that I have to take responsibility for my life. It all comes down like this is nobody else's life. This is nobody else's house. This is nobody else's journey. 1 00:15:55And, and, and I'm going to stop manipu, being a manipulator. And by doing that, I have to really commit to, to not being a people pleaser. It's really interesting. It's really, it hit home so hard when I saw that quote, I was like, oh my God, that is the truth. 2 00:16:11Yeah. That, that just changed me. I, it makes perfect sense because the way, the reason that we became people pleasers was for our own survival. It's not like we said, gosh, this person really needs are. I mean, it's really not altruistic in, in any way. It's, it's the opposite of that. It's just as selfish as the Eddy other behavior might be considered 1 00:16:37Really interesting. And I think it, it, it, it for women and stuff, it sort of becomes second nature and like, like acceptable, you know, people pleasing does sound really great. And like, you're being very compassionate, but it's not that for me, it is definitely, I don't want to feel an uncomfortable feeling and I don't want to risk you being mad at me. So I'm gonna just do this and then be resentful and then nothing changes. And I reinforced the behavior. 2 00:17:08You get the impression that that person also understood that it wasn't a great idea. 1 00:17:16No, because I get it. I think that that person is just in doing their own thing and isn't, and has a different, I don't know, like it is not a people, pleaser is more of a something else. And so that's why we attracted each other. And so, yeah, I just got the feeling that that person was just doing their thing and like, could not sense. 2 00:17:44Yeah. And the other thing is when you live in LA New York, Chicago, or maybe even some of the other large cities, people are always coming into town and people are always wanting to stay with you and you always have the right to say is, it's just not going to work. I love to see you. I'd love to hang out with you. I can recommend a great hotel across the street. Right. But you just can't stay. 1 00:18:09No, it just doesn't work. And it does, it really upset, upsets the, the, what is it? Homeostasis of the, of my whole vibe, my whole life, you know? And, and, and yeah, and that's just the truth. 2 00:18:22I personally can't imagine at my age ever wanting to stay. I mean, I don't even want to stay with my own family. Like I do. I go and stay with my mom, but I, you know, if, if I had all the money in the world, I would always just stay in a hotel. Yeah. It's just, it ma it makes for a better time together when you're with the person, if there isn't any resentment about like, how, what you like the temperature to be when you're sleeping or how loud you can be, or what time you getting rid of that. 1 00:18:57Yeah. And that's just the way to do it. So I'm learning, you know, I'm a learning and we're learning, what else is going on? 2 00:19:05What else is going on? I do. I'm doing like some intense sort of writing exercises with my theater group, where we started this new thing of writing five minute plays. So you, so we have, we pick a, there's a word of the week. We pick up the word and then there, we pick a prop and we pick a line of dialogue that everybody has to use. And then we'd go away and write the little play and come back and present it the next Monday. So we just did it for the first time, this past weekend. And we presented last night and it was really fun. I ended up writing something that I don't know that I would have written otherwise, like, you know, because I had to incorporate these other things. 2 00:19:50And it's, it's actually a really good way. Writing exercises are a very good way to get out of your own ruts. You know, like if you find yourself always writing the same character, always writing the same type of dialogue. If you get some externally imposed restrictions on what you can write, it leads you to think in a way that you might not otherwise. That's fantastic. And what else, what else have you got going on meetings or writing wise? 1 00:20:21Nothing. Right now. It's interesting. It's sort of like a lull in between. People are supposedly reading my script. I'm the head of roadmap to see who he thinks might be a good rep, but he, but like life, like people forget about you. I mean, that is just the truth. It's not that you're forgettable. It is that we're all forgettable really. And that people have a big life. So I, I wrote him and said he was supposed to read it and pass it to another person at roadmap writers and say, Hey, which reps do you think that we know might fit this? And what, what do we think this pilot needs? And, and is she ready to be wrapped with this, with this pilot and then that, so I'm in a hole I'm sort of in a holding pattern, but the big news is my husband got a full-time job. 1 00:21:09Praise, Jesus. 2 00:21:11I know. Awesome. 1 00:21:13He got a full-time regular 2 00:21:15Waiting for that for the longest time. It was 1 00:21:17Like two years in the making and the guy hasn't had a full-time permanent job in 20 years. He's been a contractor for 20 years. So this was like a huge step. He starts on my birthday, October four. And, and we were just relieved and so grateful. And it was, you know, it's also though a good reminder, like then I go into, because I'm a human I'm like, oh my God, well, he has to keep this job and he can't lose this job. I mean, it can get insane. So I'm really telling myself, like, stay in the day, the guy just got the job. Everything's a process nothing's permanent anyway, stay in the day, stay in the day. So that's really that's. 2 00:21:54Yeah. That relates to the thing that I wanted to run by you, which is that tendency that urge, you felt to then want to control, like how he stays in the job, or that's very familiar to me. And I was talking to somebody about it recently, somebody who was complaining that in their family, any thing negative is never tolerated anything. You know, it's like any, any challenge or struggle you have is like, you have to stiff upper lip it to the point that this person doesn't feel like they can ever say, I mean, even something simple, like 1 00:22:42I don't like this of like, 2 00:22:44Yeah, I don't. Yeah. It's like, well, but you have food and you you're going to be grateful for it. So, and she was, she was telling me that, you know, there was this long period of time actually, where she hadn't had a job and then she got a job and she hated the job. I mean, she wasn't quitting it, but she, she hated the job. And whenever she would say anything to her family about it, they would say, yeah, but you're really grateful. You have the job. Right. And for a while, she was like, oh yeah, you know, she's feeling badly that she shouldn't have any bad feelings about it. The thing about feelings is you just don't get to decide what they are. I wish you could. I really wish you brought program. 2 00:23:27And just say like, no, Siri, I don't want to have this feeling right now, but that's one thing we haven't outsourced yet. You simply can't control it. What the feelings you have are the feelings you have. The only thing you can control is the outcome. And it makes sense. Like, if you think of people who in past generations, we're in poverty, like there's no room for any, no thing, but you know, putting your nose down and doing the work. And I get that, but we're not living in an agrarian society anymore. And people have complaints. And, and by the way, generations ago, they had complaints to just the, the fact that they weren't allowed to say it out loud. Doesn't mean they lived happy. 1 00:24:05Exactly. Well, I think it's, it's just comes back to exactly what we're saying is about addiction and mental illness and everything is like, just because you don't speak it out loud actually doesn't mean that there's not a whole torrent of storms inside of you. It's still there. It's just that you're not expressing it. And it has to go somewhere. 2 00:24:25They go somewhere. And that makes a lot of sense too. Like if you think about how the body is processing trauma and, and it'll just go somewhere until you, you can deal with it. And same thing is true for frankly, every emotion, you know, the best, the best gift you can give yourself. And certainly the people who you love is the gift of acceptance that this thing has happened. Do you feel this type of way about it and it, and it's okay. It's not. And some people take it too far. It's so, okay. That you can do whatever you want because you have, you know, poor, you, you had to go through. It's not that it's simply just, okay. Yeah. I mean, my, my daughter is actually a good example. 2 00:25:06My daughter, I'll say, she's going through what? I'll call a high, a hypochondria phase. She wants to come to you and say, it hurts when I do this, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, let's, don't do that for a few days. Then I, I mean, in any given day, she'll have seven elements. And my practice is, cause what happens to me inside is I feel, I feel like anxiety shoots up in me immediately. And it actually, it took me a long time to know that that was happening. And then it took me a little while to figure out why would I have that reaction of well, because that's how people reacted to me when I like we can't afford you. 2 00:25:53Can't be sick. You can't have a problem. We can't deal with that. It, it, it, it doesn't work. So I'm practicing. I'll, I'll keep everybody posted on how it's going. I'm just practicing saying, I'm really sorry that you're feeling that way. Let me check it out. Okay. Let me know if it keeps, you know, if it persists, 1 00:26:13Right? I mean, I think, yeah, it is. So it is so right. It is the first step is realizing what your reaction is. Right. And that is huge to say like, okay, like I, when, when, when a member of my family, you know, like get sick or something, I go to rage, like, how dare you be sick? How dare you allow yourself to have a need and inconvenience everybody. And that's because that's how I treated. But it took me a long time to say, why am I like enraged that my husband has a cold, like, this doesn't make any sense, but it does make sense because I wasn't allowed to have a cold. 1 00:26:53Right. But this is now that was, then he's allowed to have a cold. It doesn't mean the end of the world, but it takes a while to figure out what the hell has he been going on? Yeah. 2 00:27:03Yeah. And I think the other thing that comes up for me when I feel anxiety or rage, when somebody is low, I don't mean this word, but I'm being cheeky, like indulge in their needs. The anger is I didn't get to act like that when I was your age. So therefore you don't get to. 1 00:27:25So it even goes to someone, a psychologist was talking about people who have, and this was me for a long time in public places. When an infant is crying, if you have that rage to shut that infant up a lot of times, it's because you were, you felt that you couldn't do that. Also. We feel, we can't do that as adults when we'd like to start screaming and crying and that, and that, that infant is expressing what we all wish we could. And nobody likes that because it's not there. And I was like, that's so true. And when I looked at it that way, look, I still don't like screaming, infants, who does? I mean, it's just annoying, but it wasn't, it didn't, it doesn't trigger me like on planes and stuff anymore as bad because I'm like, oh, that kid is doing that being is doing what we all wish we could. 1 00:28:13And they're the only acceptable outlet for it. If an adult did that, they'd go right to jail and then they'd be checked in, you know? And, and, but that infant gets to express that and like, wow. You know? Yeah. 2 00:28:26Yeah. So the only other thing I wanted to mention to you is that I, for some reason, my kids were like, mom, the Emmy's were on tonight. We've got to watch the Emmy's. They have never watched any award show to my knowledge. I don't. I think my daughter thought that her favorite YouTubers might be like getting awards. And I tried to say, I don't think they do those kind of, they will soon. Sure. I'm sure there's going to be YouTube awards. And I'm sure they're going to be injustice. I'm sure they're going to outpace the Oscar. Exactly. Cause 1 00:28:57They're just, those influencers are on top of it. Yeah. 2 00:29:00But so I started to watch it. Cause that's the thing I usually like is the clothes and I right away. Did you watch it? Nope. Okay. I right away noticed, wow. So many nominees are actors of color. This is, or not just actors, writers, whatever people of colored. This is great. Wow. Who the tightest is suddenly shifting. And then one after the other, it was like, but then the one white guy was in the one white girl, one like 1 00:29:28I, that big thing that 2 00:29:30Was the big, oh, is that what people are saying about 1 00:29:33More? I believe it was more people of color were nominated than ever before and less one, the actual word than ever before. I mean, 2 00:29:41My God it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like white folks saying you should just be happy just to be nominated. Look at that. Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to let you win. Yeah. There needs to be some type of like in Hollywood. I wish sometimes I wish Hollywood was just like a company that everybody got like a company newsletter, you know? And then this week's newsletter is like, Hey, listen, we are white. Fragility was really showing, you know, you have to remind yourself that it's, you're not recognizing somebody whose work is not doing them a favor. 2 00:30:21It's recognizing their work. It's not doing them a favor when it's your favorite white actress and it's not doing them a favor when it's your favorite blackout. Right. Right. It's recognizing the work it's about the work and all rising tide lifts all boats. And when you have better work, more better work comes out of it. Like, you know, this whole thing about the appetite. Like people always like, well, but it's the American appetite for whatever. Okay. Well guess what Americans, myself included, like the thing that you tell me it alike to somehow agree. And if you tell, and if you tell me that something that I know is shit, you know, is shit. Then, then I go, okay, good. 2 00:31:02I I'm, I, I, that, that tracks with the belief that I already have, we could just make all pro content better. It could all be more interesting. Right. Did you see McKayla Kohl's and I watched, I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was brilliant. She she's brilliant. And that I watched because people kept reposting it and I'm like, oh, she said something brilliant. So let me watch. And I just really appreciated it. And I, I she's, you know, tells you to keep going. And for those of the people who are listening, who don't know the, the, her big thing was it's okay to, or actually you should, as a writer, an unplug because, you know, we get caught up in this web of re what was the word? 2 00:31:48She is, it was not ref visibility, visibility. I think it was, we get caught up in our own visibility and how many people have seen this thing. And we don't, we don't feel like it's real or important until people have seen it, which, you know, there's understandable reasons for that too. But all the time you spend in vexation about whether or not you're being viewed is time that you're not spending, looking at yourself. Yeah. That's what it is. Honestly, we all are just, we want people to see us, but not really see us. Right. We need to see ourselves. So the answer is, as I used to say to my clients, well, the bad news is the problem is you. 2 00:32:28And the good news is the solution is you. 0 00:32:33Well today 3 00:32:39On the podcast, we're talking with Noel wrath. Noel is someone who went to the dealer school for a time when we were there at DePaul university and she left, but wow, she was there. She was a part of what Gina and I have talked about as a spiritual movement or religious movement that kind of swept up the theater school for a time. And she tells us all about that. And she talks about her writing and what she's up to now. And it was very interesting. So please enjoy our conversation with Noel rap. 2 00:33:16She got a French bulldog named Joris. We have a mutt named Wallace, Doris wallets. What's your dog's name? 4 00:33:26Lucky. Lucky. He's a toy poodle. So he's seven pounds of anxiety. 2 00:33:35That's funny. They say that about little jogs that they're nervous. Little suckers. 4 00:33:41No, I know. I was really hoping that I don't know. Somehow we would look out and not have one of those Yippy dogs, but they just bark it everyday. They just are just high alert at all times. 2 00:33:54It's literally their only defense, literally. 4 00:33:58I know. And that's what I keep reminding myself is like, you know, he's just so little and vulnerable that he has to think he's big, but yeah. 2 00:34:08So Noel wrath, congratulations. You survived theater school. Well, 4 00:34:13Yeah, sorta. Yeah, 2 00:34:16You did. You did it and sort of is like the, all for the most part, that's all of us, right. It's like we survived sort of, and we're here, you know? Yeah. 4 00:34:29Well, I mean, I made my own choice to leave, so it's kind of a different scenario, I suppose. I don't think 2 00:34:36I realized that. So yeah. Say the whole time, 4 00:34:40Right? Yeah. I ended up, I ended up deciding to leave right before my senior year started. 2 00:34:48Oh, wow. That was a bold move. What precipitated that 4 00:34:54It, you know, which I suppose we'll get into, but it really was a pretty dramatic spiritual experience that happened while I was in school. And I remember going to Betsy's office to have a conversation with her because I knew a lot of people for whatever reason would take a leave of absence. And I really thought that's what I need to do. I need to kind of figure things out. And I was going in to have a conversation with her about taking a leave of absence. And it was through that conversation that she really kind of, I don't want to say she kind of coached out, but she helped me realize that maybe this wasn't the path for me right now, you know, because I would have to be compromising for, you know, for what I believed was compromising. 4 00:35:54What, you know, what then I was, I was feeling was the sort of like new understanding of, of who I was and my reality. She was like, it's just going to be one compromise after another. And I'm not sure if this is, I mean, she wasn't like, I'm not sure if this is a good fit, but she helped me realize, like I had options. And that was actually really freeing to realize that yeah, 2 00:36:23You said, we'll get into it. Let's get into it right now. I mean, so our, our experience, or I'll say my experience was w w one day a bunch of people seemed like they were all part of one specific group that was, that included the way people dressed, sort of like in long skirts and, and, and going to, I don't even know what the churches, but, but, but going to church, I'm sure. I'm sure it was, it didn't happen in one day, but you're the first person we're talking to who was sort of a part of this. So we'd love to hear what your experience was. 4 00:37:05So well, I mean, just to put it in context, you know, I like coming to the theater school, I was one of those people where like I barely got in, you know, I, I, I did not, I was not as studious person. You know, actually I remember meeting with, I think it was what is her name, Melissa, Melissa Meltzer. And she was like, oh, we'd really love to have you, your, your act scores are a little low. Maybe you could try retaking that. So I actually did, I got a few points higher, but even getting in, I was like right away, sort of on an academic probation, you know, I was just more concerned with my social life than I was about studying, which was sort of what gravitated me towards acting because it's just fun and play and, you know, anyway, so, so as soon as I got to Chicago, I mean, coming from, you know, sort of a small town in Minnesota, I was just like, everything is at my fingertips, you know? 4 00:38:17And I remember one night, you know, kind of innocently with a friend that was in my acting class saying, you know, let's go clubbing tonight. Let's like, see what that's all about. And man, that just opened up a whole kind of world to 1 00:38:35Me that just sucked me in right away. I big world the clubbing. Oh, I did not. I did not. I was not a clubbing. So first of all, were you, were you in the class, did you start school the same time we did I'm con 93, 94 94. 4 00:38:56Yep. So with ed and Erica Yancey who you've had on, I'm trying to think if there's oh, Paul home Quist. Yeah. Okay. And I don't know if, for some reason as I, I always gravitated towards the drug dealers too were like magnets for me. So I had my pick of whatever I wanted and it just really sucked me in big time. So I had a good experience at the theaters go in terms of like, I loved my teachers, I actually got decent roles. I just, as you know, it was always the case with Noel. I wasn't applying myself, you know, like I wasn't really in it. 4 00:39:42I was just so scattered. So, so that was kind of, you know, that sort of like setting the stage or whatever for, I think what ended up being this kind of an awakening for me. So anyway, so it was my third year and I was cast in a two person show Danny and the deep blue sea. And it was, it was Barry was the director and Anthony LoCascio was the, was Danny. And it was really the first like major lead role that I'd ever had. 4 00:40:25I mean, I'd done a lot of musical theater and then leads in that kind of thing, but a straight, you know, dramatic lead was, you know, it was a lot of, it was a lot of responsibility. And I remember Anthony and I taking that really serious. And, you know, we were kind of, you know, like you are, when you're 19, you're, you're exploring, you're having deep philosophical conversations, you know, and we would spend so much time drinking coffee and smoking at the golden app, just philosophizing about life. And we just really were interested in God. 4 00:41:06We were just had a lot of conversations about what is God and what, you know, and in my own, in my own mind, I really thought that I had a clear understanding of who God was and what that meant to me. And I used to always say to him like, well, you're closer than you think. You know, like I really felt like for whatever, I'm like, I had it all too. Like I had it together, like I knew, and I had this close relationship with God because some experience that as I'd had, like as a teenager or whatever, but that's sort of the beauty too, like before you, you do get all indoctrinated is that you are having this experience and it's sort of unfolding as it needs to, instead of someone telling you, this is what you should be believing, or this is what you should be doing or whatever. 4 00:41:57I mean, I really do believe that it's supposed to just sort of unfold and happen in its own time. Do you want to say more about, I'm curious about what happened to you as a teenager that, that sort of exposed you to, well, just, you know, I guess just going way back, I mean, I've just always, I've always been a real sensitive person when it comes to spiritual things and I've always had a deep longing for understanding, you know, what this all is and who I am. I mean, even now with my own kids, I love to talk to them, stuff like that, you know, and just to like, sort of try to pick apart, I mean, I'm always reading spiritual books and just, I don't know where I am. 4 00:42:50Yeah, very much so I don't have any answers, but I just love to dig deep and figure out, you know, what's beyond and how this is all connected and how we're connected and, you know, so I grew up Catholic, but then I had, you know, I went to like some camps with friends, you know, and there you have kind of, you know, emotional experiences and then you feel really close to God for a while. And then about two weeks later, you know who you were. I mean, it was just always this cycle of that, you know, it was like having emotional experiences and, and feeling more in touch with my true self, but then I'm always kind of reverting back to, you know, behaviors that are typical, I guess, if a teen or whoever, but probably weren't the best choices, you know? 4 00:43:54So yeah, so we would, so Anthony and I would, would have these amazing conversations and cliche as it is then of course we developed sort of a relationship, you know, during the show and it, it, you know, that show is very intense. I mean, it's like two hours in my underwear, swearing and slapping each other. It was like, that was the first show that my parents got to see me. Yeah. That's, that's a big one. Yeah. And I remember it was opening night and he comes to me, you know, in the green room or whatever, and he's all excited. 4 00:44:41And he tells me, I went to church and I got baptized today and I was like, whoa, that's, that's awesome. You know, I was so excited for him. And then we go and we do the show and I don't even remember much about the show itself, you know, or truly having any sort of understanding about what we're doing there or who this character really was. But it was kind of after that, that I started going to this church with him and th this church was affiliated with his, his brother, his brother had, had a pretty, you know, again, dramatic conversion, you know, through this church, it's, it's a Pentecostal church. 4 00:45:33And this older man had started a kind of what they call like a daughter work, you know, sort of a satellite church in Schomburg, which is a pretty far suburb outside of Chicago, but that's, that's where they were going. So we started doing a Bible study with Anthony and his brother and his, and his brother's wife. And I just kind of got, I don't want to say I got sucked in, you know, but it really did feel it, it just felt really pure and genuine. 4 00:46:17And I think what's been so helpful for me listening to this podcast specifically is because I don't talk about the experience of, I mean, I don't want to say like joining a cult because I don't think it's a cult. I mean, it has ish tendencies, but I appreciate what you guys have talked about. That everything is sort of a cult. And especially when you're 18, 19 years old, I was always like, how did I let that happen? You know, like how did I let my life like completely go in an opposite direction? 4 00:46:58How did I let myself get so sucked up into like these strangers? Like, I didn't know these people at all. Well, and it's because you are so young and you're completely taken away from your family, you know? I mean, you're, you're out there by yourself. And I think, you know, being in such a, being in such a dark place with the clubbing and the raving and the drugs and everything that goes along with that, I think like deep inside, I was really like longing for something that was more true to me. And, and I was really longing for family and just something that would be like a foundation and stabilize me. 4 00:47:45And it certainly did. I mean, it was a lot of rules, right? You had to follow a lot of rules. It's, it's, it's definitely a more legalistic type of religion and they don't, you know, and it's not like, oh, now you're in like, do this, do that. I mean, they're very, like, I mean, I could tell from the beginning, it was like, no one wanted to talk about it. Like no one wanted to talk about the fact that women are wearing skirts and, you know, like all the other things like, you know, which eventually you start, but it really was more like me realizing it on my own. 4 00:48:26And when I would bring it up, the women would be very like, hold well, but don't worry about that. You know, you just, just do what you're doing. Just, you know, keep coming. Like you could tell that they, they knew that once you are fully in it, typically women start to then have an issue with it, you know, because it's, it is so counter-cultural, and, and there's some pretty extreme things. One being is that you do not cut your hair because it's considered like a covering almost like a veil, like a physical Vale. 4 00:49:11So there, I mean, there was one point where I had hair down to my calves. Like I had not cut my hair in like five, seven years. Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't too long into the experience with, with Anthony in this church that I don't know, it's probably even just like three, four months that I started to realize like, oh, all these women are, you know, like they don't wear makeup and they're always wearing skirts. And so I started to ask questions and I really did it on my own. I was like, okay, well, that's, that's different, but that's not a big deal. 4 00:49:53I mean, I could try that, you know? So I just, I would go to thrift stores and buy the most hideous, well, this is a long skirt. So that works. I mean, that's what I like is when you say we looked like we walked out of little house on the Prairie it's because we had like, no idea what we were doing, but it really was coming from a pure place. I mean, 1 00:50:17One, I, I, what really sticks out to me, something that you resonate that resonates really deeply with me is the idea that you were looking for family and as someone who, as a former therapist for, you know, for gang members and for all, it's always that looking to belong. And I'm telling you, if I had been approached, I'm telling you right now, if I had been approached by anyone in your group and sat down and said, we love you. We want you to come do this. I would have done it too. I know I would have, I just wasn't in the it's like I wasn't exposed to it so I could see how 4 00:50:56Well that's, why there were so many from our class. And even younger that for a while were pulled into it. Even Mary Kay cook was one Heather Callington Sarah Whitaker. I mean, she and I were, were best friends at the time. I mean, we all, and then there was, there was other, you know, other people too that, you know, came maybe to church once or twice with us, or, you know, I even remember, I mean, it was like this mini revival was breaking out within the theater school. I mean, it was like, you could tell people for so spiritually hungry. 4 00:51:38I mean, they really, I remember one time, you know, we sort of like posted something on the board, like let's just get together and have a Bible study, like anyone that wants to come and we reserved some room I like in the annex or something. And there was there, I, I feel like there was like 20 to 30 people that showed up and there was such a buzz in the air and, you know, no organization or like, who's really leading this. And, but you could tell there was just such an excitement. People were really hungry for it. And I wish that, you know, the, the church and, you know, the philosophies around this particular denomination, weren't so dogmatic and absolute, because I think that we could have together had a bigger impact at that time. 4 00:52:34But, you know, because certain people were, you know, were more about let's follow the church, then let's all have sort of like a, I don't know, just a more open-mindedness about it to honoring like everyone's perspectives and experiences and where they were coming from. But, you know, unfortunately that, that type of denomination was like, no, you know, it has to be this way. And this is, this is the truth. Like, if you don't see it that way, then, you know, I don't want to, we don't really have anything more to say kind of a thing. 4 00:53:14So that's, that's unfortunate. Did you, 1 00:53:18I just have a question. Did you feel that that buzz in the air that sort of yeah, that was like taking, I wanna know. Did, did they, did, did the teachers get involved? What, what went down like okay. Cause I'm really curious about that aspect and like how they handled it and also, yeah, just that, can you talk about like the culture, like, did the teachers say you have to stop this? Or what, how did it go? Cause I, I was so in my own world, 4 00:53:48I would be, I would love to know what they thought, because I'm sure that they were like, what is going on? Like, it just seemed like they didn't really know what to do with us, which is probably why Betsy, you know, was probably the voice of the majority of the teachers saying, I think it's probably be best if you found a different path, you know, a different career or whatever. Right. 2 00:54:25Because one of the, one 4 00:54:26Of the, I mean, cause what do they do? You know? I mean 2 00:54:29Limitations, if I remember correctly, it is the material. Like there was a L a lot of, I mean, it just, it, the things that people were willing to do, the things that the students were willing to do, the students who are part of this changed really quickly, and it became, I don't want to do material with cursing or sex or 4 00:54:55Yeah. I mean, it was, it was crazy and yeah, exactly. Like, I didn't know. I remember having conversations with a couple of MFA actors and just saying like, what, is there out there for Christian actor? I mean, and of course we know it's like not much and really bad and it's already hard enough making it as a regular actor, you know, willing to do anything and then put all of these stipulations on it. I mean, I was fortunate where, you know, I was so I'm, I'm discovering who I am and I'm kind of transforming as a, as a person. 4 00:55:44And I was still cast in some shows. I mean, I'm sure that was probably I'm sure that was probably intentional, you know, from the, from the faculty standpoint and things where I didn't feel compromised, you know, like I did bridge to Terabithia, which is a children's show. And, and then, you know, under milk wood, which is like, everybody was in that didn't get a main stage or something, you know? So I was able to sort of, I was able to sort of exit gracefully and not feel like I was put in a position where, but I do remember I was in bridge to Terabithia. 4 00:56:25I had, I had really short hair. Cause I went through like the nineties pixie cut phase, you know, remember you with your hair on your little burette right here. Right, right. But I remember, and that was probably part of the reason why I got cast because I had this short hair and I was supposed to play this tomboy. And I remember going to the makeup room and I think it was Nan is her name and her saying now, you know, so we're going to have to keep up this short hair. So let me know when you are scheduling another hair cut. And I was like, oh, you know, actually I don't cut my hair anymore. 4 00:57:10It's like, it's like a religious thing. And you know, that was one of the first things where, and she's looking at me and I'm looking at her like, and I think it was even in that moment that I'm starting to realize, oh, there's going to be a lot of this kind of thing. You know, there's going to be a lot of, oh, I can't do this. Or I don't know. I don't know. Looking back. I'm just, I think that's, what's strange now is that like, I'm listening to everyone's stories about either, you know, going on and being, working actors and coming to a place now where, what we're like 20, 25 years later. 4 00:57:53And they're kind of like, wow, this has been a really interesting choice. It's like a very bizarre life, you know? And for me, I've always hung on to this idea, like, like the, what if, what if I hadn't left? What if I had stuck with it? And I'm always kind of, I don't want to say tortured by it, but there certainly is a part of me that's like, as I've never feel like I've found my place, you know, you still feel that I still feel that way. I've never feel like it's like ever since I left, I'm like now what, what am I doing? 4 00:58:37You know, what did you, when I, right after you left, I left. And I immediately, I stayed at DePaul and I immediately enrolled in the English literature department. So I graduated with an English lit degree and I will say that. And I've always said that that leaving in terms of education-wise was one of the best things I ever did because, you know, at that point now I'm more of a straight and narrow. And I, I really got excited about learning and I finally figured out how to study. 4 00:59:19And I was, I had an amazing liberal arts education at DePaul. You know, I was like introduced to so many amazing works and just classes and professors. So I ended up graduating in five years instead of four, you know, so it took me an extra two years or whatever, but that really kind of helped propel me on, you know, in terms of like my later sort of just love for continuous learning and reading. And, but, you know, I remember even standing in line at graduation and, you know, you kind of, with all of these other English lit people and they had a plan, you know, like they all knew what they were doing. 4 01:00:04Or a lot of people knew that they were going to grad school right away. Or they, you know, they were going to be editors or work in publishing or journalism. And I was just like, I just had to pick something, you know, and something that sort of interested me, but I had no idea what I was going to do with it. You know? So I have been all over the map in terms of, you know, a career afterwards, but yeah. 2 01:00:30So what, what are you doing now? 4 01:00:35Actually, I'm a writer right now. I work for an architectural firm and I do technical writing for that. 2 01:00:44Yeah. I mean, that's interesting though that you you're, that's a completely reasonable career choice and yet you feel like you don't, maybe you're not saying you don't belong to your career. Maybe you're saying you don't feel like you belong in a different way or you don't have your, you don't have your group, you don't have your people. I mean, first of all, did you, did you leave the church? 4 01:01:09I did. Yeah. So let's see. I don't know. I had been graduated a couple of years and I was working as a, you know, like a administrative assistant for a window company. And, and I met my husband through mutual friends and he was, you know, he was part of the church. He had grown up in the UPC, but you know, there was always, I could tell right away, because even though I was in it, I always questioned, I was always questioning. 4 01:01:49It's kind of, part of my nature too, is just to question everything and, and I was always like in it, but then I would backslide, you know, and I would not be in for a while. And then I would come back and backsliding. Or 2 01:02:06Did you call it backsliding? 4 01:02:07Yeah, they called it a, no, it was called, what do you 2 01:02:10Mean? Like when you, when you went astray or something like 4 01:02:12That? Yeah. Yeah. You would like go back to your old life ways, your old life. Yeah. Wow. Because you did that basically like stopped going to church. So you had periods of that. Oh yeah, for sure. Okay. Got it. And you know, there were, cause there was just a lot of, a lot of, a lot about it that I felt was very controlling, you know? I mean, because it is like, if you don't go to church, someone's going to call you and ask you where you were, you know, or, you know, it was just like serious business, your church life and your church, family is all encompassing and there really isn't room or time for anything else. 4 01:03:02Was there any money? A lot of money? No, no, nothing like that. And then what did people do in terms of like jobs? Did they do all kinds of jobs. Cause you're saying it's all encompassing. Did you have to get a certain kind of job or? Oh no. No. I mean you, yeah. I mean, no, you, you know, you're living your life, but I'm saying it's like, you know, it's it's church on Wednesdays and then, you know, two services on Sunday, but then there's also all of these midweek things, like maybe you're doing two Bible studies, you know, on or you're involved in. 4 01:03:45I don't know. You're just, there's always something I just felt like, you know, so there just isn't a lot of time for strain, right. Because you're just, it's, you know, you're always with the same people. But so anyway, when I met, when I met my husband, first of all, he, he was going to a different church, but within that same denomination and the church, you know, every church has its own kind of flavor and maybe rules too, you know, more strict or more lenient or whatever. 4 01:04:27And I just felt like he was also like, he was an intellectual, he was okay with questioning things, you know? And so we sort of connected on that level. And even from the very beginning, I just felt like this is someone that I don't want to say, like we're gonna escape together. Like it wasn't that dramatic, please understand. But I just felt like this is someone that I'm like, I'm going to be safe with and that we're going to be going on this journey together. 4 01:05:12Interesting. And that we, you know, I just had that deep sense from the very beginning. And we did, I mean, we did question a lot of things, but we, you know, we stayed in it for a long time, but yeah, we were living in, in Chicago, that's where he was born and raised. And when I was pregnant with my second child, we ended up moving to Minnesota. So back to my hometown and it was kind of there that we started to kind of break away. I mean, there was a church here that we could have gone to and we, and we did for a little while, but we just started to realize, you know, we're living two different lives and it's not, it's not who we really are or how we really believe anymore. 4 01:06:03So yeah. So it's been a long journey. 2 01:06:06Other people, I don't remember if other people cause like Heather Callington was an R year, she stayed all the way through. She graduated. Did other people leave the program that you know of? 4 01:06:17Well, Anthony did. Yeah. Yeah. He and I left at the same time. Yeah. And he's 2 01:06:22Still, I think he might still be a part of that church. 4 01:06:26Yeah. Yeah. He pastors a church actually in the suburbs. Yeah. Okay. 2 01:06:31So that, that does mean though, that there are people who stayed and presumably kept their faith, you know, and figured out a way to make it work at the theater school. Through, through graduation. 4 01:06:50Yeah. Yeah. I suppose I think Heather really is the only one. Yeah. 2 01:06:56Oh, because maybe what you're saying too is like, after you and Anthony left Anthony, by the way, so charismatic, it makes sense that he would have been kind of the leading the effort on this after he left, maybe it kind of died out at the theater school or do you know? I think 4 01:07:13So. Wow. 1 01:07:16I was there any, you know, it's from the little I know about that church that, and maybe I'm wrong. So please tell me, but like, it seems like it's theatrical in its own way. Is that, is that accurate? That there's like a theatrical vibe to it. So it's kind of interesting that you guys, that you were actors and then this church, it's not just like, you know, the, the Unitarian church or something, which is by the way I've, I've been to, and I fell asleep like six times, this is more like, right. It, it offered, it must have offered some kind of fix of the theatrical. Did it, or am I just totally? 4 01:07:57Oh, for sure. I mean, it's a very emotional experience, you know, and that is part of that's part of what I think draws people in is there's, there's like an alter call you at the end of every service where it's designed to invoke a lot of emotion, you know? And if like, if everyone's not crying at the end, then it wasn't as successful, you know? And at some point, 1 01:08:32Which by the way is like acting class, I'm just saying it's very similar to acting class. So a lot of times theater schools and the rehearsal processes are, if the people, if no one cries, did we really do good work that day? I'm just, there's a lot of similarities. So it makes sense to me that it's just like, it's sort of in the name of God versus in the name of the theater, but it's, it's a similar vibe, man. It's a similar, I've seen, you know, like from watching movies and there will be blood and things like that. Like watching, watching that kind of yeah. Emotional response. That's what we're all looking for, dude. Like that's the thing. So it happened to be in Schomburg with people, but it could be anywhere. 1 01:09:16So I just, I really want to sort of emphasize and like say that like I, in the core of my being get how that I might have taken this path too, and that it is, it's just, I just, we're all looking for a home, like, okay, we're all looking for an emotional home where we can feel like we belong and this has happened to be in a church. But I mean, it's just, so anyway, that's what I want him to say. Cause I was like, oh, these are the there's similar. It's similar theatrical. 2 01:09:49Yeah. And, and all, and we've talked to many times on this podcast about how people find theater school. Well, people go to college in general to, in part to find themselves, but there is something specific about theater school. And I think it might actually be for people who are going into acting. I don't know who I am. I don't know how I feel. Let me just go ahead and learn how to be somebody else, you know, for awhile, because maybe through, and it's a perfectly reasonable way to come to know yourself. Maybe you come to know yourself more through the, okay, well, I'm not that that's not who I am. It's not that I'm trying on all these different selves and you know, until I find the one that fits. 4 01:10:33Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think about too, you know, kind of like how you guys have talked about your are you're so raw at that point, right? Like I had been through two, two and a half years of that sort of stripping down process and now I'm so open to anything. And I think it was just the perfect scenario for me to get swept in, swept up into something like that, that, you know, touches on so many different senses. Right. 4 01:11:13And especially that emotional component. I mean, it was just, yeah, but it's like, I was, I was hesitant honestly, to come on, like, and that's why I had not responded to your emails initially because I was like really humming and high and about whether or not I wanted to talk about it because it's like, although it was, it was, you know, it was sort of a bizarre experience. It was something that happened and it has shaped me and it, in a lot of ways it shaped me for the better, you know, I mean, it really helped me get my act together because I was out of control and, and I keep thinking too, even though there's always this, like what if in my head I'm like, yeah, but what did it prevent me also from experiencing? 4 01:12:07Because if I had gone down that path and ended up in LA and I mean, I was just so naive and so willing to try anything that I'm just, I don't know. It sort of scares me even now when I think about how did I walk out of some of those situations I put myself in, you know, through my club years that I walked out like alive without major trauma or when you do it, a lot of drugs is that what was happening? A lot of drugs, a lot of guys, you know, I mean, it was just not a healthy situation 2 01:12:51Becoming part of the church change any of the relationships with people that you had at the theater school. 4 01:12:59Definitely. Yeah. You know, unfortunately, and, and now what, like looking back, I can understand it because I mean, jeez was like, it did seem like overnight, all of a sudden there was this like group of kids that was just all Jesus freaks, you know? But there were some people that I would've considered pretty close friends that just like cut us off. Like literally wouldn't speak to us. But then there were other people that, you know, just remained true friends and you know, didn't quite understand it, but we're like, whatever, you know, if it's good for you, then that's good. 4 01:13:45You know, I think that's the one thing that I probably regret though, is that, you know, like people walk away from their college experience, like, like you too, you know, and you've known each other since you were 18. And because of the way that I left and, you know, the situation that I was in, I was, I really sort of like cut myself off from a lot of people. And so I just haven't had that same, like, you know, close people that I've known since college, or even been able to like rehash some of these things. That's, what's been so cool about listening to this podcast as a sort of putting pieces to the puzzle together, you know, that I haven't been able to talk about with anyone because I haven't kept in conversation with anybody, you know, over all those 2 01:14:39Touch with anyone that was in the church. I mean, you said, you know, Anthony's is still the church. Do you keep in touch with any of like the Sarah Whitaker's or the, 4 01:14:50You know, we've connected a little bit through social media, but, but not really. Not really, no. 2 01:14:58I'm just sitting here trying to think about, I mean, you and I didn't have a friendship per se, but I, I w I guess the only person in that group that I had a friendship with was Anthony. I don't remember the timing. I wasn't a quasi relationship with him. I 4 01:15:19Feel like I remember it 2 01:15:21Must've been, maybe I, maybe I blame. But when I think about why I would, I was rejecting of people who had become part of that group, all the only thing I can come up with is fear. It's not like anybody started treating me differently. It's not like it was really no skin off my nose that people joined a church. I don't know why I had a problem with it. Actually. Maybe it just, I think it scared me. It seemed sudden, and I didn't really know if it was, I didn't know what kind of church it was. 2 01:16:02I didn't know what it was asking people to do. So actually, you, you, 4 01:16:07Well, I can't blame you for being, I mean, I would have been the same way, you know? I mean, and plus we were just, I think about some of the things that I did, you know, like, I remember we had this one assignment in some acting class where you were supposed to get up and it was just like, sort of like a comedic thing you were supposed to get up. And in one breath, like say all of the expletives that you could, you know, you know, like, like you see that in like a movie, you know, like a Chevy chase scene or something. And, and so I'm sitting there and I'm going, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? 4 01:16:47You know? And I get up and I just, at the top of my lungs scream, I hate you devil What, you know, and actually looking back now, I'm just like, dang Noel. That was really bold of you. I can't imagine something like that now. 1 01:17:10You know, the one thing 4 01:17:11That, you know, but as another classmate, I'm sure they were just like, what? 1 01:17:17Well, first of all, that's a dumb, dumb assignment. I just have to be honest like that. Okay. Let's just, but that's just my judgment about the assignment. But also then knowing that like, look, I think I remember I was away. I think I was not in school when this went down, I had taken a leave of absence, I think. Right. Cause it was right before 4 01:17:39Ready with Nicholas cage. I remember that rumor 1 01:17:43Mill. That's hilarious. You hear that's hilarious. 4 01:17:46Yeah. You were like a unicorn. That's hilarious. 1 01:17:50Meanwhile, I'm like drinking myself to jump over here. But anyway, that's funny, 4 01:17:55Jen is a personal assistant to Nicholas cage. Like I was like the top, you know, like we couldn't believe 1 01:18:04Meanwhile I was, I was miserable, but anyway, so all right. And we, we all were in some ways, but the other thing I'm realizing is that it does take a certain amount of chutzpah to be like, I am going to bel
John 7:2536 (ESV) Can This Be the Christ? 25Some of the people of Jerusalem therefore said, Is not this the man whom they seek to kill? 26And here he is, speaking openly, and they say nothing to him! Can it be that the authorities really know that this is the Christ? 27But we know where this man comes from, and when the Christ appears, no one will know where he comes from. 28So Jesus proclaimed, as he taught in the temple, You know me, and you know where I come from. But I have not come of my own accord. He who sent me is true, and him you do not know. 29I know him, for I come from him, and he sent me. 30So they were seeking to arrest him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. 31Yet many of the people believed in him. They said, When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done? Officers Sent to Arrest Jesus 32The Pharisees heard the crowd muttering these things about him, and the chief priests and Pharisees sent officers to arrest him. 33Jesus then said, I will be with you a little longer, and then I am going to him who sent me. 34You will seek me and you will not find me. Where I am you cannot come. 35The Jews said to one another, Where does this man intend to go that we will not find him? Does he intend to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks and teach the Greeks? 36What does he mean by saying, You will seek me and you will not find me, and, Where I am you cannot come?
Pre-order Michele's book! deployempathy.com/order/Michele Hansen 00:00Welcome back to Software Social. This episode is sponsored by the website monitoring tool, Oh Dear. Oh Dear does everything they can to help you avoid downtime like scheduled task monitoring, SSL certificate expiration notifications and more. But downtime happens. When it does, it's how you communicate in times of crisis that make the difference. Oh Dear makes it easy to keep your customers up to date during critical times. You can sign up for a 10 day free trial with no credit card required at OhDear.app. Colleen Schnettler 00:35So Michele, do you have a, Michele Hansen 00:38Hey, Colleen Schnettler 00:38Good morning. Do you have a numbers update for us on your book? Michele Hansen 00:43I do. So my presale went live about a week and a half ago, when our episode with Sean went live. That was my deadline. And, I've sold 43 copies right now. Yeah, it's kind of exciting. Um, it's not all people I know, which is exciting. Colleen Schnettler 01:06That's very exciting. Michele Hansen 01:08I love how supportive people have been. And it also, it makes me, it's just reassuring that people I don't know are buying it. But yeah, so that puts it right now, just, and this is just the raw, you know, number of times $29, which is $1,247. Colleen Schnettler 01:30That's amazing. Congratulations. Michele Hansen 01:33Yeah. Thank you. And I got my first payout yesterday, which after, like, taxes, and everything else, was $912. Colleen Schnettler 01:41Wow. Michele Hansen 01:42Which was kind of exciting, and gives me a little bit of budget to work with, with, like, you know, hiring a proofreader, and using some, like, layout tools, but, you know, so I was pulling these numbers, and because, you know, everybody loves numbers and whatnot. And I was thinking about it. So, so I got this, this message from someone yesterday, who had started reading the book, and it was actually someone I don't know. And if I can just kind of read what they, what they said. Colleen Schnettler 02:25Yes, please.Michele Hansen 02:26And so I had a personal aha moment reading distinction between sympathetic, empathetic and solution based responses. My sympathetic conclusion based responses are leaving no space for empathetic, something I need to address. I'm an engineer and an architect by trade, and I'm looking to do a better job interviewing the humans attached to our work. But I'm also thinking about your book from the sense that a better balance of empathy will help me be a better teammate as well. And, like, getting that was so moving for me because it made me think about how, you know, I'm not writing this book for the money. Like, yes, the book needs to make money, because I've been working on it for four months now and have, you know, there's a lot of time I haven't spent working on Geocodio. Oh, like, I've been a pretty bad Geocodio employee the past couple of months, like, full honesty, right? So like, I have to, like, it has to have been, you know, worth my time. But like, I am not, I'm not motivated by that, like, I am motivated by this, by like, you know, like, I have this like, secret dream goal. Well, I mean, it's not a secret cuz I've, like, tweeted about it, but like, whatever. You know, Mathias sometimes says to me, he's like, I know you were thinking about something because you tweeted about it. And I'm like, oh, I forgot to, like, verbalize that. Anyway, um, I have this dream that through the process of learning this for interviewing, and, like, product development and marketing reasons, people will understand how to be more empathetic and use that in their daily lives. Like, everyone has a capacity for empathy. Everybody can learn it, not everybody is taught it or shown it so they don't really learn it. But everyone has a capacity for it. And, but also, like, very few people, you know, put like, be more empathetic, like, learn how to learn how to use empathy, like on their to do list every day. But they put write a landing page, get more customers, build a feature, like, reply to all of those customers and intercom like, those are the things that end up on a to do list. And so I have this like, kind of, I don't know, like, naive dream that like people will read this and apply these skills to the things they're already doing, but in doing so, learn how to be more empathetic in their daily life or you know, as a as a team member or whatnot. And just getting this message really, it was so motivating, but also so soul-nourishing because it really made me feel like, like the book has done what I wanted it to do. Like, this is what I set out to achieve and, like, this message makes me feel like the book is a success, regardless of how many copies it sells. Like, so it was just like, it was kind of a, it was kind of a, like a moment, like it was, it also sort of like if you're having this effect, like you can, like, stop rearranging it, like, you know, I feel like I've done a rewrite every week for, like, the past eight weeks. Yeah, time to time to ship the gosh darn thing. Colleen Schnettler 05:57That is wonderful. So what I just heard you say is, this book is secretly teaching us how to be better humans, wrapped up in a book about customer interviews. Michele Hansen 06:09Yes, wrapped up in a book about which features you should prioritize, and how to, you know, pick a pricing model based on what people's usage patterns are, and, like, how to understand what people want and write better landing pages. All that stuff they're already trying to do. But then yeah, there's, there's this kind of bigger message. Like, I feel like so much of good UX practice is good human being practice. Colleen Schnettler 06:35Yeah. Michele Hansen 06:36Um, and, I mean, I, I really learned about empathy by doing interviews myself. So this, I mean, it's, it's, it's very personal for me in a way that, like, the book is, I don't know, it is very, very personal for me. And it's not just about showing empathy to other people. It's also about showing empathy to yourself, too, which is just as important. Colleen Schnettler 07:06So I have not read the book yet, unfortunately. Can you tell me briefly, what the difference is between empathy and sympathy that that writer wrote into you? Because we talk about it a lot, but we've never defined it, really. Michele Hansen 07:22Yeah, that's true. So empathy is when you, basically when you, when you try to understand the other person's context without judgment, and it doesn't mean that you agree with what they're saying. You're just trying to find the context behind what they're saying or what they're doing. Because, sort of, most of us, basically, we assume that our, there's this assumption that our actions make sense from our perspective. That is to say you wouldn't go out and do something if it didn't make sense to you, like, maybe very few people might, but like, for the most part, we have this underlying assumption that, that the things that we do make sense to us. And so you're basically trying to find that internal context for why somebody does something, and then you reflect it back for them. So for example, if you came to me and started telling me about how, like, I don't, I don't know something you were struggling with, like, let's say, you felt like you were banging your head up against the keyboard all week on some, like, coding problem and it was really frustrating for you. An empathetic response to that would be man, that sounds really hard and like you were working really hard on it and it was super frustrating for you. A sympathetic response would be, oh, I'm sorry you went through that. So a sympathetic response creates distance between the person who is speaking and the person who has aired something, and that might not be a complaint or a frustration. It could be like something positive, but it creates distance. And sometimes it's called fake empathy. Like, I feel like this is what you see in a lot of, like, really bad public figures, celebrity apologies. It's like, I'm sorry, that offended you. It's like, no, that's wrong. Like, like, that's not, that's not actually apologizing. And then there's also kind of this other element that I feel like is this sort of, like, solution-based responses, which comes from a place of caring, and I think us as product builders, I know me, like, we really fall into this, is someone, like, if you came to me with some, some problem. If I just said, oh, well, have you tried this? Which, I'm trying to solve your problem, I'm showing care, right? Like, I wouldn't propose a solution to your problem if I didn't care about you and making that solution better. The problem is, is that it doesn't validate your experience and it doesn't acknowledge your experience. So, while it comes from a good place, it's not empathetic because it doesn't say, wow, like, that was really hard for you. Like it doesn't, it doesn't fake make you feel seen or heard. And it could end up being, through the course of a conversation, you end up explicitly asking me like, do you have any advice for how I could do this? Like, what should I try? I feel like I've tried all these other things. But an empathetic response starts with acknowledging what the other person has gone through. Colleen Schnettler 10:25Okay. Okay Michele Hansen 10:26And then also checking in with them, like, do you, do you want me to listen to you about this? Or do you want me to help you brainstorm ideas? Colleen Schnettler 10:33Okay. Michele Hansen 10:33Like, so but I think that's, that's like one of those that really, like, it took me a while to wrap my head around that because the other thing about a solution response, especially in the context of a customer interview, or whatnot, is that you need all the context behind, behind why someone does something and why they went through something in order to really build something that solves the problem for them in a way that they understand and they're capable of grokking. Right? Because we need all of the context behind it, not just the functional context, but also sort of the emotional and social context of things in order to build a product that someone feels like is speaking to their experience and the problem they have. Does that make sense? Colleen Schnettler 11:18Yeah, it, it does. It's, it feels like a subtle difference, though. Like, when I try to understand your problem in your context, in your context, the sympathy for versus the empathy, like, it feels very subtle to me. Michele Hansen 11:34It is subtle, but like, um, I mean, it's, it's subtle. You know, it's the difference between, I'm sorry, that was hard for you and that was hard for you. Like, those are a subtle difference between them, but there is a huge difference between that and what someone would receive. Colleen Schnettler 11:53Yeah, I can see that. Michele Hansen 11:55And because when you say, I'm sorry, that happened to you, it emphasizes that it didn't happen to me. Colleen Schnettler 12:01Right, okay. Michele Hansen 12:01It actually, like, Brené Brown talks about this a lot. I'm sorry, that happened to you. It, it makes the other person feel more alone because it emphasizes that they are the only one who experienced that, and it makes them feel isolated. Colleen Schnettler 12:18Okay. Michele Hansen 12:19And she has a great way of responding, I'm sorry, of phrasing this, and I don't know if I'm doing it justice. But basically it creates that distance, and feeling alone and feeling like you're the only person who went through something is a really, really hard feeling, especially when you have just gone through something frustrating, and it doesn't have to be a big thing. It could just be, you know, the fact that I spent my week fighting with Grammarly, like, like that could be the problem we're discussing. And, but if you said oh, I'm sorry, you went through that, like, it reminds me that you didn't go through that. Colleen Schnettler 12:55Hmm. Okay. Michele Hansen 12:57And it was like, oh, yeah, that was like, maybe it was just me, like, maybe I was doing something wrong, like, am I using it wrong? Like is like, like, you know, it creates all of that doubt and feeling of sort of loneliness in it. Colleen Schnettler 13:11And so tell me the empathetic response again. Michele Hansen 13:14That sounds really hard. Colleen Schnettler 13:15That sounds really hard. Okay, right. So you're not, you're trying not to create that distance where they're an individual isolated, Michele Hansen 13:23Right. Colleen Schnettler 13:24And you're over here. Michele Hansen 13:25And it doesn't start out with I, right? Like, the sympathetic response to start with, you know, like, I'm sorry, that offended you. Colleen Schnettler 13:33Okay. Michele Hansen 13:34Versus the difference between like, that offended you. Because when you say it that way, you're sort of asking for elaboration. Colleen Schnettler 13:41Right. Right. Michele Hansen 13:42Versus I'm sorry, I offended you just shuts it off. Colleen Schnettler 13:46Wow, I say that all the time. I'm sorry, XYZ happened to you. Michele Hansen 13:50I said it all the time, too, then I started learning about this stuff. And I was like, I'm accidentally like, a jerk, and I didn't even realize it. But so many of us speak this way. And we learn the way we speak from the people around us. And if the people around you, when you were learning to speak, didn't speak empathetically, even if they're otherwise nice people. like, then it would make sense why you think this way and don't realize it. Colleen Schnettler 14:15Interesting. Michele Hansen 14:16Like, it's totally normal to not realize that what you have been saying is actually not empathetic. Like, like, it is a, it is a learned skill for many people. I mean, the people who have it built in are the people whose, you know, parents really made it a focus when they, when they had their kid. Like, but for most of us, it's kind of oh, I guess I should stop saying that. Like, I remember how at one point, like, when I was in my early 20s, I was at a job and somebody was like, you know, you really shouldn't say well, actually. Like, I don't know if you realize how you are coming across. Like, I know you don't mean anything by it, but like, it's, it's kind of like, and I was like, oh, crap, I do that all the time. Okay, like, mental note, like, mental dictionary update: stop. Like, so it doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean that you're not a nice person or that you're not an empathetic person or that you're not, you don't have a capability for empathy, it simply means that you haven't learned it and all of the various implications of it and we can call learn. Colleen Schnettler 15:15Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you for, for telling me about that. Like, that's really interesting. I didn't know that. I find that like, this whole thing, empathy and psychology, as I'm trying to, as I'm talking to people and trying to sell my product, I have found that it really, and I already knew this, but like, now I'm seeing it, it really makes a difference. Can I just tell you about this one issue, which I find so interesting? Michele Hansen 15:42Yes. Colleen Schnettler 15:43Okay. So the way my product works is you upload files to the cloud, and then I provide you a dashboard where you can see all of those files. I have gotten several requests now from people to allow them to tag the files. Michele Hansen 16:02Oh, yeah, like Drew asked for that. Right? Colleen Schnettler 16:04Yeah. So I've been trying to figure out why people want to tag the files. He's not the only one who asked for it. Some other people have asked for it. The reason these people want to tag the files is because they want to be able to mass delete all of the files they've uploaded in a development environment. Why did they want to do that? From what I'm understanding, they want to do that so those files, like, because those aren't production files, they're not, like, cluttering up their dashboard. So when those people have asked me about this, I said, well, look, if you exceed your storage, because I don't have a mass delete function right now, and I don't have that, I'll just give you more storage. But nobody likes that answer. It's like, and so I think it's like a mental psychological thing where they want, like, a nice, clean dashboard. I don't know, I just find this really interesting, because I'm like, storage is cheap. I'll give you more storage until I implement this. But, but it's like, it's, like, as human beings, they really want, like, to segment stuff. I don't know, it's like mental. That's kind of the way I've been, I've been thinking about it. Like, as human beings, they don't want files that they don't need on their dashboard, even if they don't have to pay for them. But I'm like, I don't know. So, so that's just kind of been an interesting one for me. I'm like, but you literally like, I'm not gonna make you pay for those files. It's fine. They can just be there in outer space. But no one, yeah, that's an interesting one that keeps coming up. Michele Hansen 17:25Yeah, it sounds like they, like, that clutter is creating a certain like, Colleen Schnettler 17:33Mental clutter or something psychological clutter. Michele Hansen 17:36Nervousness, or something. And then there's also this element of wanting to, like, mentally, like to mentally separate things like, I'm sort of, I'm reminded of one of my favorite economics papers called Mental Accounting by Richard Thaler, which is basically on how people like, they create different jobs for different bank accounts and investment accounts, and like, you know, for example, people might have one brokerage account that's just for, like, they have like fun money versus they have their serious 401k. Or like, some people have many different bank accounts for, you know, for different purposes. And it, there's, there's probably a broader term for this, but since I come from an econ background, that's, but like, people wanting to create these different mental categories, and basically, like, it's almost like they want to go, sort of, it's like mentally going to IKEA and buying one of those room divider shelves with all the different boxes you can slide boxes in and, like, being able to look at it and see that everything is in all of its little different categories and is in its place. And they know like, you know which things are in which box, and it looks all nice and organized from the outside. Colleen Schnettler 18:51Yeah, I am going to do it because I have found I use my own product for my clients, and I have found I desire the same thing. But I think you're absolutely right. Like, from a purely practical perspective, it doesn't matter. But from, like, a human organizational mental box perspective, like, it seems to make people happy. Michele Hansen 19:11Yeah, like, there's that functional perspective of it. But then there's the emotional perspective of feeling like everything is organized. And then I also wonder if there's a social element where like, maybe they're afraid one of their coworkers will use a file that was only for development, or because there's so many files and they're all in one list, someone will use the wrong file or, like, I wonder if there's any, any sort of elements around that going on? Colleen Schnettler 19:41Yeah. Could be. I didn't ask that. That's, Michele Hansen 19:47So when someone asks you for that, what did you say back to them, exactly? Colleen Schnettler 19:52Well, the first time someone asked me, I said, that's a great idea. I'm totally gonna do that. Michele Hansen 19:58Okay. That's an understandable response. Colleen Schnettler 19:59I know you're over there thinking, like, have I taught you nothing, Colleen? You have taught me. That was before we were doing a podcast. Michele Hansen 20:06No, that was a starting point, and that's a perfectly understandable reaction to that. What did you start saying after that? Colleen Schnettler 20:15So the second request I got was via email. So I didn't really have the back and forth that I would have had when I'm talking to someone on the phone or on Slack. And, so this person, I asked them kind of what their use case was, and I also told them in the email that they, you know, I wasn't going to charge them for development files. So if storage became a problem, we could work something out until I had the, you know, a bulk delete API set up. And this person was looking to segment files so they could do a mass delete of the development files. And they also brought up they thought it would be great to be able to segment files, like via model. So you could have, here's all my avatar files over here, here's all my resumes over here, which would be really cool. I mean, that I can totally see the value because and then you're then in your admin, yeah, then in your admin dashboard, you could easily filter based on, you know, what your tag was. And it's really not hard to do, I just haven't done it. But I do like, I do like that idea. And that, to me, makes a lot of sense because I think people really like, like we just talked about, like, you like to have your stuff in the appropriate boxes. Michele Hansen 21:34I think it's hard sometimes when somebody proposes an idea that we get the value of because we would use it ourselves. It can be really hard to say, can you walk me through how you would use that? Colleen Schnettler 21:46Yeah it is. Michele Hansen 21:47Like, because their reasons may be different. And we really, we need all of those reasons because the reasons I would do something might be different than the reasons why somebody else would do something. But when we understand something, it feels very unnatural to ask for clarification, even when we don't need it. But it's so reasonable. Colleen Schnettler 22:08That's exactly what it is. It feels so weird, because I'm like, yeah, totally. That's a great freaking idea. Yeah, it is odd. Michele Hansen 22:16I sometimes feel like it's, I wonder if this comes from, like, conditioning in school where, like, I feel like the kid who asks a lot of questions is, you know, sort of branded as annoying. I was definitely that kid in math class. Like, I just always seemed to understand it two weeks after the test. And I wonder if it's like that fear that like, oh, God, like, am I going to be the person who asks questions. And then we have this like, sense that being the person who asks questions, even one that might be sort of a quote, unquote, like dumb question that's clarifying something. Get you like, like, I wonder if there's kind of this built in social conditioning around that, that makes us not want to ask those clarification questions. And we're like, okay, I think I can guess what they want, so I'm just not gonna ask further about that. But, but when we're building a product, you need to be able to, like, look in all the different nooks and crannies of how they're thinking. Colleen Schnettler 23:08Yeah, definitely. That definitely is valuable. To your point, you might use it one way, and they might want it for something totally different. So I really do think, like, throughout the course of this podcast, and since we've been spending a lot of time talking about customer interviews over the past several months, that I've gotten way better at it, because it's, it's my instinct, just to say, yeah, I totally agree, because I do totally agree. So why, I think for me, it's not like, I'm not I don't I'm not scared of asking clarifying questions. I think it's more like, I don't want to waste any more time. Like, I'm like, okay, cool. Let's not waste anyone's time, and let's just go do it. So I have, I do really think I've grown a lot in that, in that kind of sphere of pausing, slow down Colleen, because not really good at slowing down. And, you know, kind of dive into what they want and why they want it. So I think that's been good. Michele Hansen 24:02It can be kind of tough as like, I feel like we're both pretty enthusiastic and kind of like, like, have you ever been called bubbly? Colleen Schnettler 24:11Yeah, of course. Michele Hansen 24:11Yeah, I have been called bubbly, too. Yeah. So like, I like feel like enthusiastic people want to be like, yeah, that sounds awesome. Like, it's so, it's so counter,to like how I would interact with someone socially. Colleen Schnettler 24:25Yeah, I agree. So, so anyway, that was something, I was thinking about that when you were talking all about, you know, empathy and sympathy and psychology, is how much these kinds of factors play into product building. Michele Hansen 24:41Yeah and building an intuitive product that, that makes sense to people. Like it's, it's really hard to build something that's intuitive because it requires understanding the user's mental model of how something works, and you can't understand their mental model unless you have, you know, really, you know, poked through every nook and cranny of how they think about it. And also seeing what are the similarities at scale across many different customers. You can't just build it for one particular person, right? Like this, I think this is like, do we want to do we want to do more definitions? Because now I'm excited to get into definitions between Human Centered Design versus activities under design. But if we are, we are feeling good on definition today, then, Colleen Schnettler 25:29I don't know what those are. Yeah, go ahead. Michele Hansen 25:32So like, you probably hear people talk about human-centered design, right? Colleen Schnettler 25:37I mean, no, but okay, I believe you, so not me. Michele Hansen 25:40So like humans, I feel like this kind of came really into it, like, especially in, in tech in the past, like, I don't know, 10,10-15 years, like, you like, think about the human behind it. And like, this is where a lot of like, agile stories come from, is like, as an administrator, I would like to be able to update the billing page, whenever we get a new credit card, like, like, those kinds of stories that if you've worked in the corporate world, you have seen the ads of so and so like, those kind of stories. And like, creating personas, and maybe there's like a picture of a person, and there's their age, and there's like, you know, like, all of those kinds of things that's very, like human-centered designs, and you're designing for people and understanding what those people need. Then there's activity-centered design, which is designing for things that people might be trying to accomplish, but not for specific people, if that makes sense. So it's like, so if you're thinking, I just used an example of like, a billing administrator. The human-centered design approach with a persona might be you know, this is Susan, and she lives in Iowa, she has been working in insurance for 20 years, she has a dog named Charlie, like she prefers to use her iPad on the weekends, but during the week, she uses Windows like, it's like that kind of stuff. Activity-centered design would be like, when billing administrators are going through this process, they want to be able to, you know, these are the different kinds of things they're thinking about, these are the different functions that they need to be able to do. Here are the different things they might be feeling. Like, do they want to be updating a credit card? Like, how does that make them feel, like, is that, is that enjoyable for them? Is that frustrating? Like, are there other people they're working with on this? Do they need to go get a p-card from someone else? Like, what is this entire process they're going through that is independent of them as a specific person and independent of the product? And then how does the product help them get through that entire activity, either easier, faster, or cheaper. I feel like I just dropped like, Colleen Schnettler 27:54There's a lot. Michele Hansen 27:54A lot. Colleen Schnettler 27:55I'm gonna have to re-listen to that one. Michele Hansen 27:56But basically, Colleen Schnettler 27:57So what's the, Michele Hansen 27:58Activity-centered is kind of the approach that I take. And that's the, the approach in the book is designing a process that exists regardless of the person and regardless of the process. Colleen Schnettler 28:10Okay. Michele Hansen 28:10The product, I think I messed that up. Colleen Schnettler 28:13Okay, so which one is better? Do you have all the answers, Michele? Tell us. Michele Hansen 28:18I am not going to throw bombs in the design world here. I mean, you know, there's, there's value in designing for specific people, right, and, and specific types of people, especially when you're talking about accessibility and whatnot. But fundamentally, you know, like, activity center design is okay, what it, what is the thing that someone's trying to accomplish? For example, 500 years ago, you may have solved, you know, entertain me at home, when I'm alone on a Saturday night with cards or dice, right. And now you might solve it with Netflix. But that fundamental process that you're going through to not be bored when you're in your house on the weekend, like, that process and that desire is relatively constant, which is the thing about activity-centered design approaches is that you're looking at a process that is consistent over time, because you're speaking to sort of broader, underlying goals. And this types of products, someone might use the different functional and social and emotional things that might be important to them are different, but the overall process is the same. And so this is what I think about a lot when we're like thinking about the process that someone is going through and designing something that's intuitive for them and building that mental model is understanding, okay, why do they need to be able to tag things and why do they need to be able to mass delete these things, and what is this overall thing they're trying to do? And it sounds like it's sort of, to feel like all of their files are organized and they can find things when they want to, and that desire to be organized is a relatively consistent desire. Colleen Schnettler 30:03Yeah, I think one of the things, one of the phrases we use at work is to surprise and delight the user. And I feel like this falls into the surprise and delight category. Like it's not necessary, but it's delightful. Michele Hansen 30:19You just used the phrase ‘at work'. Does that mean when you are working? Or? Colleen Schnettler 30:26Oh, just when I'm, just this company that I've been contracting for for a while likes to use that phrase. Michele Hansen 30:31Okay, gotcha. Colleen Schnettler 30:32So this to me feels, Michele Hansen 30:34I didn't know if you'd suddenly gone off and gotten a full time job without telling me. Colleen Schnettler 30:39Well, I'll tell you if I do that. I may be considering that. That's like a whole ‘nother podcast episode. I feel like we don't have enough time to dive into that. Michele Hansen 30:50We'll do that in a future episode. Colleen Schnettler 30:52Colleen's life decisions. But yeah, so, this feature, I feel like, is delightful. And when we talk about like design, you know, in the context, you were just saying, I think it does fit into the, the latter category. Michele Hansen 31:10Yeah. And I can, I can understand how someone, or you might even, or probably, I feel like if we had talked about this, like, six months or a year ago, the reaction kind of would be like, this feels like we're really splitting hairs over something that's super obvious, and why don't I just go build it? Colleen Schnettler 31:29Well, yeah, Michele Hansen 31:30Which, I think it's a very understandable reaction. Colleen Schnettler 31:34Yeah, I mean, I think the problem I'm having, and I know everyone in my position has this problem. It's just, there's just not enough time to do all these things. Like, one part of me wants to take like six months and just do all the things, right? And then the other part of me wants to balance my life with building this business, and is trying to be patient with, with my constraints as a human. So I know, you know, everyone has those, that struggle, everyone who's working and trying to do this. But yeah, I'd love to add all these things. Like, I want to do all the things of course I do. Michele Hansen 32:10Speaking of which, building the business, we started this episode with my numbers update. Do you want to give us a little numbers update before we go? Colleen Schnettler 32:31So I do want to tell a little story about this. Storytime. So, someone who's kind of a prominent bootstrapper had a tweet the other day about how for his SaaS, he just implemented file uploading using some JavaScript library, and it took him like, I don't know, like a day. So not an insignificant amount of time, but not a huge amount of time. It's a long time if you're a developer to take all day. But I saw, so, like, I saw his tweet, and I was like, oh, like, why didn't he use Simple File Upload? Like, clearly my product is crap. Okay, so this happened at like 9am. So then, like, later in the day, this just happened a couple days ago, I went to see if I had any new signups. And as you know, like, I've been pretty flat for like two or three weeks now, signups have been pretty flat. So, in one day, I got $325 boost in my MRR. One day. Michele Hansen 33:19What? Colleen Schnettler 33:20That has never happened in the history of my product, like ever. I was like, whoa. Michele Hansen 33:25So did someone Tweet it, like, add it to that thread, or, like what happened? Colleen Schnettler 33:29No, no one added it to the thread. And I didn't add it to the thread because he was clearly looking for a non-paid solution. So it seems like it wasn't that he hated my product or it was bad, he just wasn't looking for this kind of solution I was offering. I don't really know what happened. But a whole bunch of people signed up. Michele Hansen 33:50These two things happened on the same day, and you don't have any conclusively linking them, but it feels suspicious that they wouldn't be linked. Colleen Schnettler 34:00It's super weird, right? Michele Hansen 34:01Yeah. Colleen Schnettler 34:02Um, so I am trying to like, I'm just really starting to try and get into, like, Google Analytics and understand that. Anyway, so that was, my point of that story is like, you know, this is, we're never bored. I'm never bored, right? Like one day, I'm like, this thing is miserable. The next day, I'm like, I'm the most brilliant person in the world. Like, it's never, it's never boring. I guess my point of that story was it's all over the place. I'm all over the place with, with this product. And some days I feel like it's just not, not as good as it should be. Some days I feel like I'm charging too much. And then other days I have, like I realized I have, there's all this power in this thing I built that no one is utilizing. So that's something I really want to spend some time getting some content going out there and spend some time, like, showing people why it's more powerful than, than, you know, other solutions they've been using. Michele Hansen 34:58You seem really fired up. Colleen Schnettler 35:00I am. I, I've just had like, a, it's been, like, a really good week. I mean, from a work perspective. And although I didn't get to spend the time, you know, I got, okay. I don't have a lot of time to spend on the product the next month or so, so I'm just taking it in little bits, right. And so this week, it's a tiny thing, but someone pointed out to me, and I think this also plays into psychology. Okay, so my marketing site is built in Tailwind UI. My application site is built off of Bootstrap. Bootstrap and Tailwind are not friends. I can't just throw Tailwind into my Bootstrap site. Michele Hansen 35:37If it makes you feel better, the Geocodio dashboard was on Bootstrap, and the Geocodio marketing website was on Railwind for, like, a really long time, like, like, you, like, we were on the like, 2013 version of Bootstrap for, like, a very long time. And it wasn't until like maybe six months or a year ago that we actually got them both on Tailwind. So you're not the only one. Okay, so back to yours. Colleen Schnettler 36:06So this. Okay, so if you are on my marketing site, and you click through to sign up to get the free trial, here's the thing that happens. The nav bars are different. Michele Hansen 36:17Mmm. Colleen Schnettler 36:18Yeah, it's not good, and someone pointed it out to me. They were like, oh, I had to click back and forth a few times to make sure it was still the same application. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And so I can't, but it was like, it was, so it's just this visual thing. But this he pointed out, he was like, you know, that's, that made me think I was at the wrong place, it might make me close the window. Michele Hansen 36:40Yeah it might make them think something was wrong, or, like, they accidentally got led off to another site that wasn't the right one. And like, maybe it's, like, phishing or something, like. Colleen Schnettler 36:50Exactly, that's exactly what this guy said. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And so, so my, my Simple File Upload technical accomplishment this week, was basically like, and because I can't, my application is pretty complicated. I can't just pull out Bootstrap and drop in Tailwind. That's gonna take me forever. So I actually, like, just stole, stole is the wrong word. I grabbed some of the Tailwind styles and just over, you know, and overrode my Bootstrap styles just for the navbar. So anyway, the point is, now the nav bars look the same. And it's like, it sounds like a small thing. But like, I think the mental block for, if you sign up and I drop you to a totally different site, you're like, wait, what? Michele Hansen 37:29Like, yeah, it's like, something is, like, the brain is a little bit like, danger, something is different. Colleen Schnettler 37:34Yeah, exactly. So, so another, so it was another big CSS week for me, which is not my forte, but I got it. Michele Hansen 37:41I wrote JavaScript this week, which is not my forte. Colleen Schnettler 37:46Oh, jack of all trades. Michele Hansen 37:48Well, we wrote stuff that, that's not our forte, and you're going back and forth between feeling like it's amazing and you've built something super powerful. And then, also feeling like it's, really has a long way to go, and is it ever going to get there, which, honestly, is how I feel, like, I feel the exact same way about my book. Like, every day, it's like, oh, my God, this is a hot mess. And then I'm like, actually, this is amazing and I should just publish it now. Like, I think that's, I think that's just like part of building something, whether it's a book or you know, software. I mean, yeah. Colleen Schnettler 38:31And honestly, I think it's part of the fun. Like, I honestly do, like I, it makes it interesting. Like, I've worked jobs that are really boring, and they're really boring. Like, this is way more exciting.Michele Hansen 38:52I think that's the thing I love about being an entrepreneur is that it's always different. And sometimes it's different in ways that are super boring and require a lot of paperwork. And sometimes it's different in ways that are like, super awesome, and exciting. But the fact that it is so different all the time is, is what makes it fun and makes me feel like I get to, like, feel lucky that I get to do this as my job. On that note, perhaps we should sign off for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on iTunes or tweet at us. We love hearing what you think about it. Have a good one.
This is a sermon about this bible passage: Acts 1.15–17,21–26 15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (together the crowd numbered about one hundred and twenty people) and said, 16‘Friends, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.' 21So one of the men who have accompanied us throughout the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.' 23So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. 24Then they prayed and said, ‘Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen 25to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.' 26And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.
Message Outline: https://bit.ly/3cuBV0MToday is our last Sunday in our “Overcoming Faith” Campaign. We’re on a spiritual journey designed to strengthen & build our faith, to see God’s miraculous power released in and through our lives in a fresh way. We’re receiving: Fresh Faith to lay hold of all of God’s promisesFresh Faith to overcome life’s challengesFresh Faith to walk in:God’s Peace & Joy, Provision, Protection & HealingFresh Faith for God’s will to manifest in our lives, families, city & nation Last week we spoke about how to pray the Prayer of Faith: Find a promise in God’s Word that covers your specific needTake this Scripture to God in prayer, along with your needReceive the answer/provision to your need at the time when you prayThen continue to thank God that He has answered your prayer, and that He has met your needToday we will talk about how to walk by faith.Most of us know the common saying: “Seeing is believing”. Yet the Bible exhorts us to “believe without seeing”.If we choose to “believe without seeing”, we will (eventually) “see what we believe”. 2 Corinthians 5:1 (NLT)For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.2 Corinthians 5:6–8 (NKJV)So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7For we walk by faith, not by sight.8We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.This Scripture speaks about our new resurrection body that awaits us in heaven. And is also tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. When we become born again, we learn to walk by faith instead of by sightThis is not only true concerning our new body that awaits us in heaven, or concerning heaven itself, but concerning all of God’s promisesWe don’t see heaven with our physical eyes, yet we believe in it’s existenceWhy? Because the written Word of God tells us about it!We don’t see our new resurrection body with our physical eyes, but we know we will have it at the time of our resurrectionWhy? Because the written Word of God tells us about it!So the Word of God becomes our new parameter and modus operandi for living instead of the things we can see, feel and touchWalking by faith then means:walking by the written Word of GodWalking by the leading of the Holy Spirit of God (Rom. 8:14)Thomas refused to believe without seeing: John 20:25–29 (NKJV)The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”26And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”28And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”29Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”Thomas said: I must see physical evidence before I am willing to believeJesus said: Thomas, do not be unbelieving, but believingRefusing to believe without seeing physical evidence is called UNBELIEFJesus said: Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believedThose who have not seen and yet believe are those who “walk by faith” and not “by sight”1 Peter 1:7–9 (NLT)These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world. 8You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy. 9The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.Apostle Peter commends the saints for loving God even though they have never seen God. Instead of demanding visible proof of God’s existence, they chose to “walk by faith”. The Bible says: We walk “by faith” (2 Cor. 5:7)We stand “by faith” (Romans 11:20)We live “by faith” (Gal. 2:20)We overcome the world “by faith” (1 John 5:4)We are sanctified “by faith” (Acts 26:18)We are justified “by faith” (Romans 5:1)“By faith” we have access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2)Hebrews chap. 11 lists the heroes of faith who “by faith” did astounding things (18 times “by faith”)The example of Abraham & Sarah who walked by faith:Hebrews 11:11-12 (NKJV) By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised.12Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.In the natural, it was impossible for Sarah to have children. She was barren, and at a certain time she was past the age of child bearing. Furthermore, Abraham also was too old to produce children. And yet, they had a son called Isaac. Question: How did Sarah receive strength to conceive?Answer: She received strength to conceive “by faith”!Sarah: Heard God’s Word (His promise) about a sonShe believed it in her heartShe confessed it with her mouthShe acted on the Word & came together with Abraham to conceive IsaacSo then, walking by faith is:Hearing what the Word saysBelieving in your heart what the Word saysConfessing with your mouth what the Word saysDoing what the Word saysAgain, walking “By faith” means 4 things:Hear what the Word of God saysBelieve in your heart what the Word of God saysConfessing with your mouth what the Word saysDo what the Word says
John 3:2236 (ESV) John the Baptist Exalts Christ 22After this Jesus and his disciples went into the Judean countryside, and he remained there with them and was baptizing. 23John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because water was plentiful there, and people were coming and being baptized 24(for John had not yet been put in prison). 25Now a discussion arose between some of Johns disciples and a Jew over purification. 26And they came to John and said to him, Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witnesslook, he is baptizing, and all are going to him. 27John answered, A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him. 29The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegrooms voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. 30He must increase, but I must decrease. 31He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony. 33Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true. 34For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. 35The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
22 And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23-as it is written in the Law of the Lord, -Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord-- 24and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, -a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.- 25Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,-29-Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word-30for my eyes have seen your salvation31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,32a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.-33And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, -Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35-and a sword will pierce through your own soul also-, so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.- 36And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin, 37and then as a wi
Speaker or Performer: Pastor Grover Cleveland Scripture Passage(s): Luke 16:19-31 Date of Delivery: September 13, 2020 Luke 16:19-3119There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Come on in and check out this interview with the Clicks and Mortar Queen Donnalynn Riley. Donna tells an amazing story of how she went from being the CEO of a retail chain to becoming a Spiritual Coach who is helping entrepreneurs bring ALL of who they are to their businesses. Connect with Donnalynn here at her site: https://www.donnalynnriley.com/ Also, Donnalynn has a 5 Day Masterclass you can sign up for in order: Get Out Of Your Head, Embrace Your Imperfections & Get On Track With Your Business! https://www.donnalynnriley.com/5dc-reg brandon handley00:02All right, 54321 Hey there, spiritual dope. I'm on today with Donna Lynn Riley, who is a licensed spiritual health coach who helps people develop evolve and grow. 00:17The answers they find that their journey, bring them to a new level clarity and emotional adjustment to help them develop their expertise in business systems management and marketing. 00:25And addition to her 12 years as a licensed coach her background is the CEO of a multimillion dollar corporation. 00:31informs her ability to help her clients navigate the inner workings of business systems Operations Management and Marketing so they can successfully put it all together themselves. 00:42I'm going to cut it down because that, that's great. And I'm so excited because, as we're going back and forth a little bit here earlier. This is exactly what this podcast is about. So thank you for joining me today. Donnalynn Riley00:53Oh, it's my pleasure. It's great what you're doing. It's great that you're talking about this. It's really good. brandon handley00:58Thank you. Thank you. So you mentioned that you'd call it a couple of podcasts. So what I always like to say is you know you're here today. We're using this podcast as a vehicle to send somebody out there a message, what is it that they need to hear this coming through you today. Donnalynn Riley01:17Well, I always think people need to know that life can be a lot easier than we're making it. I think that that's a place where 01:29Almost invariably people don't believe that. Right. They just go like, nah, couldn't be that I got to work harder. I gotta do more. I gotta you know think more 01:43I have to put out more effort. It's got a cost more. There's got to be a big, you know, emotional or financial cost to the things that I want in life and really 01:54Life can be so much easier than we make it. And I think that that's the benefit of of this approach of a spiritual practice that supports. 02:06Business life and certainly family life, when I know lots of coaches who do that as well. And, you know, really kind of make it better, just make your life better. brandon handley02:16Yeah, no, absolutely. So the idea is that life doesn't have to be so hard. Donnalynn Riley02:21Really doesn't brandon handley02:23And and also throw out there. I think in the first person that I know that's worked on Broadway. Right. And this is this is a story that you tell 02:30In one of your one of your videos right and helping once you tell people use that story real quick here right now. I love that story about just what you said there. 02:41Do you remember so so I'll take it away. So you were around 19 your brothers like 10 years old or new 02:47Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah 02:50Yeah yeah Donnalynn Riley02:50Okay, okay. I gotcha. Sorry about that. 02:54I was like I was there a long time. I don't know. brandon handley02:58Just getting into it right and 02:59How easy how easy sometimes 03:01For you. Donnalynn Riley03:01Yeah. So what I love about that is that, um, so. Okay, so let me let me kind of lay it out here so I'm like 19 years old I 03:11You know, I'm just out the gate. Right. But I'm 10 foot tall and bulletproof because so was everybody when you're 19 brandon handley03:18Right. Yeah, absolutely. Donnalynn Riley03:19And so when you're not very dinged up 03:22You know, you just think like everything's okay and it's going to work out for me and I kind of lived my life like that really clearly I wanted, and I got things I wanted them and they lined up. 03:35So, um, I found myself on on Broadway, which I totally expected right because I wanted it. So, and I didn't know any better, and 03:46And my brother who's 10 years older than I am. He, he knew better. And he is a he is still actually a scenic artist. And so I was a sound designer. He was a scenic artist and 04:01He was working down the block. So I was working on Angels in America, and he was working on City of Angels, which I love that. But there were all these angel references. That's kind of brandon handley04:14Sure, yeah. Donnalynn Riley04:15And. And he said, Oh, let's, um, he was like down the block. And I hadn't seen him in months. It wasn't like, you know, we were spending Sunday night dinners together or something. 04:24And he said, Let's go for lunch. And I was like, yeah, this is great. Yeah, owning the town, you know, in my, in my own head, right. 04:32Sure. And he said, you, you. He's walking me to the to the place to get something to eat and 04:40He said, You just don't have any idea what it costs to get here. You don't have any idea what these people around you have had to do to get where they want to go and in typical sort of 19 year old fashion. I thought, nope. brandon handley04:59Right. Donnalynn Riley04:59I don't care. 05:00Sure, you know, really, for me, I realized that it is a story that's centered around entitlement. Right, so it's not very popular this moment, but 05:10Being able to see yourself. 05:13In the position that you want to be to be able to know that these are things that can happen for you as well as somebody else because 05:24You put the work in and you are talented and you did you know you met the right people and you were in the right place and you took the all the steps to get there. brandon handley05:32Right. Donnalynn Riley05:33There by choice. You don't get to be on Broadway. If you suck. 05:37You do not need. All right. 05:39All right, but they send you home. brandon handley05:42Well, you know, I think. 05:43I think that um I love how you're hitting on entitlement in this insane and in this way because why should it not 05:53Backup people like people bash millennials for kind of having like that kind of entitlement thing. Right. Well, what I admire about that, you know, I think that they would say you got Moxie kid right like kinda back in, but 06:07You know what you want and you're not settling for something that you don't. So is that entitlement, or is that knowing your worth. Donnalynn Riley06:17Right. It's really tricky. It's really tricky and it is a lot about alignment and I've been fortunate to hear you talk about alignment on the podcast previously and 06:28It's a really crucial step in that process. So, 06:34Of course, if we want to get kind of 06:37Cultural about it, then we can we can sort of back it up a little and say, Well, some people have a lot of things that support the belief already in their lives when they're born, and when they're, you know, one and two and three and so it, it becomes 06:55There becomes a divide, but it's a divide in belief. brandon handley07:00100% Donnalynn Riley07:00You know, so it's a it is a really tricky thing. And the important thing for me in the work that I do with people. 07:09Is to whether you've ever experienced that belief or not before is to help you to find that belief because without it is very, very, very difficult to get where you want to go. I, I know people who have done it. It's like they kind of stumbled into their success and that's okay. brandon handley07:25That's true, but it's not very reliable. Donnalynn Riley07:29And so, you know, doing the inner work to create a system of belief for yourself so that 07:36It doesn't sound crazy that you're going to have a successful business or that you're going to get a client that you want to or that you're going to get employees that work out well for you and things like that. I'm doing that inner work makes 07:51All the outer stuff kind of 07:52Line up real quick, like the story I just told where I went from two years or three years I spent in sound design, we're learning from the best in the business. I was already learning from the people who were there, right. 08:06And and and and so I was able to do that very quickly, where a lot of my classmates in college got there 1015 years later, and they worked a lot harder for something because they didn't believe 08:23They didn't know 08:23They thought, oh, I have to go out and do something else first brandon handley08:27Right. We listen, even me today, right now with this podcast. I love it so much. I want to put this, I want to put this 08:36Nice polish on, I want to make it feel so good. I want it to be inviting you know 08:40That, you know, and this isn't wrong to hire somebody in marketing, but I like I really want these pieces I wanted to look so I want it to be so accepted because it's so 08:48meaningful to me right so I'm putting these blocks in 08:53For myself, right. I'm just putting these. Oh, I gotta do this like nothing can happen until this happens and all these other things and and literally that is in my own mind, nobody else's. I mean, nobody nobody else cares. That's just me. Right. 09:07Right. So when you're out there. 09:11And your clientele and and you're working I do they seek you out for one or the other, do you introduce like you know 09:20To the business pressure, like, well, if you just loop in some spirituality, then this might be better for you, like, tell me a little bit how this process of working with you, looks Donnalynn Riley09:30Yeah, so I kind of stand between that space right I stand between entrepreneurs and small business people who are 09:40That's what they do. That's what they've learned. They have a strong background or they have a strong desire but they don't necessarily have any spiritual practice at all. 09:49And I sort of stand between that and the people who are very spiritually open but can't figure out how to turn the computer on right 09:59And rent like can't figure out the details of, like, how do I charge people. And why would they pay me and 10:06These kinds of like nuanced things that, of course, they have a lot of talent and they have a lot of 10:13Value in the world, but so I do kind of stand in between those two spaces, I would say that for the most part, most of the people that I work with are 10:26Are on the business side but are open. brandon handley10:30Okay. 10:31Because okay you can Donnalynn Riley10:32Sort of insert and this is not you know there are a lot of really involved spiritual practices. 10:39And they have value that is beyond what I'm about to express right so this is not to disparage any spiritual practices. I think they all have a lot of value and 10:51But you can in a very short period of time with with not a ton of work right. You don't have to go and study with the monks for 18 years right with with putting a practice into your life. You can attain a lot of result and a lot of ease in your life. 11:12A lot less frustration, a lot of movement forward right so you can start to assess your situation better and access yourself in moments that are stressful better and all of these things lead to better businesses. 11:30But aren't always they're not really taught too often. brandon handley11:35I mean, if you have the capability to kind of calm yourself down in the moment, or just realize what you're about to say or 11:43If you're feeling tense right so what I'm hearing you say is like you're giving them some of these tools to to really kind of ease into themselves and what they're about. Donnalynn Riley11:51Yeah, there's bigger work that we do in order to make lasting change. And that really happens inside one on one trainings that I do or or inside group work that I do with people, but 12:08There are so many little what we would call hacks right there, little, like, oh, if I do this, I feel a little better. 12:16Right. And those are emergency hacks, you know, and they're really useful. They're a great way to get started. I think because 12:26Getting a little relief reminds you that you're probably going to get more relief. If you keep going in that direction. And I think that's a great place to start, particularly for people who are 12:41Who don't have a strong spiritual background but know that like there's something going on in my mind set or those kinds of words are being used a lot recently. Right. brandon handley12:51Right I yeah for sure. For sure. Right. Well, I mean, it's funny because, you know, I think I started off in the mindset space right but now in this 13:01Next level space right where you do this practice, like you said, For doesn't have to be 18 years but you do it repeatedly and you start with like the mindset. You start with the small pieces and 13:13You keep just kind of growing into these other spaces and these other practices that are available to and sooner or later you like I guess they were all right. Donnalynn Riley13:26I love that. Right. brandon handley13:30Right. 13:31Right. So, I mean, I guess you know there's something in those things and what they're saying and what they're doing. 13:37But, you know, so what what led you into this pace yourself. Donnalynn Riley13:43Well, 13:45You know, that's a good question. I, when I look back at my life. I see all these moments like the one that I just described when I'm like very young. 13:54That fit into this kind of way of thinking and this way of being. But I was really pretty unaware of myself and my spirituality until actually my husband got a life threatening disease. 14:15And or problem he got a tumor in his brain cavity. 14:20And he when he was very young. He spent a lot of time in hospitals. And so we went to the first doctor and it was a big emergency and he said, I'm getting a second opinion. And then we went to the next doctor who you know we we finagle their way into the good doctors and all of that and 14:43We went and he described it. And he said, Oh yeah, you have a little time because I'm very good at this. But, you know, you got to get in here in the next month or something. So it was no longer like a huge emergency we have little time. 14:56Sure, and 14:59We were driving home. It was in New York City. We live in Massachusetts. It was a long drive home. We were driving home and my husband said to me. 15:06Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not doing that I'm not doing that. I don't know what we're going to do, but I think you should find me another solution because I don't, I'm not going to do that. 15:17And that being that you just that just have him for you have been for me. I was like, oh, 15:23Wow, okay. That should be my job. 15:25Okay. Donnalynn Riley15:29No question. 15:31In fairness, I'm sure he was very overwhelmed in that moment. brandon handley15:35Right out Donnalynn Riley15:36Here and and so that was the beginning. That was the kickoff for me to really 15:45Take a look at what is possible. So, and be completely outside the box. Yeah. So once I sort of had to be completely outside the box. Then the possibilities became very, very different. 16:00So it kicked off a series of involvements with people who could help his health and who could do it in very untraditional ways 16:11And also, who required of both of us that we change drastically that we, the concept that we had gotten ourselves into this mess, and that we were going to get ourselves out of this mess was not one that I heard in the doctor's office. 16:31Was and it was really clear and so 16:34And within 16:37A few months, we were both licensed spiritual health coaches, we probably took, I don't know, six months, nine months, something like that for that process and we said, Okay, this is this, we're leaning in because we are not going where that other train was going 16:59Okay, so. So that's really the beginning of when I became a much, much more aware of myself of my thoughts of my 17:09Relationship to the world of my discomfort that I had become just completely accepting of right I had just said, Oh, well that's the way life is, you know and and really be in that awareness, I found new answers. brandon handley17:28So, um, you know what, I guess the one thing is right when you're we're 19 and your earlier years before you 17:37had developed an awareness, you would be, what would we call you know 17:43Was it 17:45Unconscious competence, right, like you and I were you, you were already aligning yourself and you weren't aware that you were doing it. And then once you kind of develop this newfound awareness. 17:56You were able to do this with intention and purpose. Donnalynn Riley18:00That's exactly right. brandon handley18:02Now, so, and also throw out like when you know so I was raised by a hippie mom grew up you know out San Francisco and she was always kicking the word awareness around right when I was growing up, I was like, I'm aware. You see me run into 18:15I've ever run into a thing. 18:18Right, I use it everything outside of me right everything outside of me. I was I was completely aware of. I didn't miss a beat. Yeah didn't miss a beat. But the awareness that I think that you're talking about today is the awareness inside. Is that fair Donnalynn Riley18:32That's exactly right. 18:33That is exactly right and very hard to articulate. You did that quite well that 18:39People, most of the time, feel like they are aware when they start working with me, they're like, Yeah, yeah, I got that part, I need the accurate assessment. Come on, let's get to the good stuff here. 18:49And and that awareness that inner awareness and that ability to kind of be with yourself for periods of time in order to deepen that awareness is very important to the next steps. And so you're absolutely right that people are like, I'm aware. Let's fix my landing page. brandon handley19:16It's all 19:17It's all marketing has nothing to do with what's happening. 19:19Right, right. 19:21Nothing internal happening fixed that. Donnalynn Riley19:23I just had that targeting right we would 19:25All set. So, what what is what is like when when somebody first brandon handley19:29Starts off what's uh what's like one tool that you like to start them off with to 19:35Begin to develop that inner awareness. Donnalynn Riley19:39One of my favorite 19:42Sort of 19:47Let me go back a second here in my thinking. One of my tools that is the easiest for me to sort of give in this kind of a space. 19:59Is actually 20:00A little bit of mirror work. Now some people will know mirror work from different varieties of, you know, mindset work and spiritual work. 20:10The mirror work that that I find is the fastest path to to becoming present 20:22Which is really that first goal is just start being in your body. 20:29Is a piece where you literally just sit with the mirror and look in the mirror in your eyes and say I am here. 20:42Over and over and over. You're sort of calling to yourself. Right. So there's a lot of work that we do after that that involves breath and 20:53Other types of awareness that we can 20:55We can bring in 20:57But 20:59But that's really the the space that I find people kind of are able to bring themselves into the room a little bit and say, oh, OK. I am actually here. Let me give this a shot. I'll be president now. brandon handley21:12Well, I mean, cuz it's, there's still the physical aspect of it right, they're still doing a physical activity, but then they're also acknowledging that it's them right right there in front of them and pulling themselves kind of gather right there. 21:27Right, so I love that. Yeah. Donnalynn Riley21:29And it's deliberate. It's deliberate. So even though a lot of times when people start that process, they don't know. It's deliberate 21:37They, they go like, well, I said the words and then I felt different. I don't know what happened. Right. But in fact it there. There is a deliberateness to it. That is really important that you are impacting you 21:53In that moment. brandon handley21:57Well, that, you know, being deliberate again, you know, intentional, knowing that you're making this choice. I know that I kind of 22:04laughed a little bit about it earlier, but you know, you get to wherever you are today. And I think this is what the spiritual coaches were probably telling you before you guys set the course that 22:13You guys made the decisions to be in that situation right as as a collective even and you you guys when you first heard that you were just like what that's done, nobody's ever said that, you know, kind of that way right to us before 22:29So, I mean, I'm assuming your husband still alive. Donnalynn Riley22:32Oh, yeah. brandon handley22:35Like I hope the story has a good idea. 22:37Because, you know, so 22:39What happens right i mean you go in and he jumped into all this stuff, how, you know, how does it clear up on it never gets checked out again and somehow he still is what happened. Donnalynn Riley22:48No, no. So what happens on that story is that we do the work we do the inner work and we do the emergency inner work and it is kind of emergency at that 23:02Maybe for a year or so as you still feel like what's happening. 23:07And we he gets checked out again. And it's shrinking. 23:12Okay, and we have do have, I will say a spectacular doctor who's actually a doctor. brandon handley23:20Sure, sure. And 23:22It's always handy to have one on standby. Donnalynn Riley23:25WELL KNOW WHO DOES THIS WORK. Oh. brandon handley23:27Okay, that sounds even better yet, Donnalynn Riley23:29He's a trained Western doctor but functions in an Eastern paradigm brandon handley23:35Love it. Donnalynn Riley23:36And so he his toolkit is very, very large. And he honestly I've seen. I've never seen a problem he hasn't been able to impact positively and I have seen him deal with a lot of stuff now. 23:53So, so we had the guidance we had long distance guidance, because he's not right here in our backyard and 24:01We had long distance guidance and we did the work. And that I think is the, the key to that is to sort of have somebody who's ahead of you who can say, yeah, no, no, no. You're going in a direction. You'll be all right. 24:14Sure, sure. And so eventually that tumor went away. brandon handley24:17That's amazing. I love it. And so 24:20You would attribute that almost all to the air work was there like a dietary change. Donnalynn Riley24:26There were other changes. Yeah, absolutely. There were dietary changes, and we think there was 24:35Well, in his particular case, it had a great deal to do with a inability to deal properly with pesticides and with wheat. brandon handley24:46In the Donnalynn Riley24:46On the dietary front. So there was that and 24:54I think there was juicing and there was a lot of things. brandon handley24:57Which are look at 24:59Things. Right. 25:00Body. Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. So, and I think that's, that's interesting. The two right you know so change a die with this practice. I'm the things that are inside of you are the things that are outside of you know that this 25:15Miracle doesn't kind of happen on its own. You gotta, you gotta put it together and you got to maintain it and you know the things that do happen to it. Your body's a miracle. Right. It's amazing. 25:28And it's something like that's happening in this story right you have the ability to change that without getting i don't know i'm guessing he was getting a laser to the back of the head or something right was Donnalynn Riley25:39Wasn't. No, no, they wanted to do full 25:41On surgery. 25:43can address and take goop out 25:47And put goop in from other part. brandon handley25:52Was Donnalynn Riley25:53Unbelievably scary. brandon handley25:55Sure, sure. So, but, I mean, the what's amazing too and your story is that a lot of people would have just gone ahead and gone that route. Right. Donnalynn Riley26:03And they would have tried to talk to your spouse into it. It's their spouse said no. And that I think is something that is I, I have been very fortunate to be able to have that reciprocal relationship with my husband, where if one of us says, No, no, this is how I really feel about the thing 26:20Yeah, even if the other one thinks like, ah, you're just scarred, we should get you over that. 26:26But there is enough space. And this is an important concept in in business in the way we live our lives in general. Right. 26:35Is that there is enough space for us to be scarred and still have full and wonderful lives. It's kind of I think of it a lot about 26:45How you know how certain trees grow and they get these scars in them. And then we cut them up and we make them into coffee tables and we call them beautiful world would 26:54Say. Isn't that spectacular right 26:57Well, that's what we're making yeah in ourselves, we have experienced life and things haven't gone right and we have changed the way that we deal with things F, day after day after day and tried new approaches and had new experiences. 27:14And all of those things are brought into this present moment. And if you allow them then finding a new answer that. That doesn't mean you have to like check out your whole personality becomes somebody else right brandon handley27:32Right, right. Donnalynn Riley27:32No, no, it's okay. You can go spend time in the hospital. 27:36Right show. You don't have to be someone else. You can be you and you can be successful. brandon handley27:41Right. Well, yeah. And in regards to write the 27:46Merging all this together. Right. 27:48But I'll say it. I love Maplewood like the birds. I'm April, right, that's kind of one of the one of the times, you're talking about right and it does become so beautiful. Right. I'm like, I'm over you're sitting right now we're turning ourselves into beautiful maple tables but 28:02I love, I love the story that you're telling about that. I think that that's great. 28:09So let's just I want is, what if some of that wasn't working at any point would didn't feel like, you know, because I don't want to get the impression that 28:19You shouldn't keep a doctor nearby. Right. I mean, because you guys kept the doctor nearby that right live as he was a Western medicine doctor that yes also specialize in this space. Donnalynn Riley28:29I think that the the message that should not be taken from my experience is, go do something extreme like I did right and that the message that should be taken, I hope people take from my experience is be true to yourself and find your own answers. 28:54Because they are there, but they're only there if you calm down long enough to allow them to sort of become revealed. They weren't there in the doctor's office right only the first step, which was no I know what I don't want brandon handley29:10To Donnalynn Riley29:11But there wasn't the step of, like, I know what I do want. Right. Yeah. 29:16Yeah. And in fact, I think that something very important happened there because it was life threatening. Right, it's not 29:23It's not the same as in business where things can go right or wrong and we can find our own alignment. Right. But in this scenario. I think one of the most 29:35impactful things that happened was that my husband had someone to turn to and say, You figure it out because he then could go about the business of lining up with becoming well 29:51He didn't know how, but he had faith. 29:53Yeah, leaf. He said, This person loves me and they're relatively smart. They'll figure it out. brandon handley30:02Well, I think you bring the other one up to which I always love you don't have to know how you don't have to know how you just have to know that that's what you want. That's right. Right. And us where they can just 30:16Move forward in that direction. You know, as if it's not Nestle like I i get i get a little caught up in between, like Law of Attraction with like, you know, 30:28Spirituality space, right. I don't think that they're one the same. I think they're very close, but I don't I don't I don't like to make a sandwich out of, I guess. 30:37Um, Donnalynn Riley30:38But so many ways to look at life you know 30:41It would be a shame to sort of collapse it into only one way 30:46Hundred percent I think that's one of the reasons that the concept of spirituality so appealing to me is that it's big. brandon handley30:53Right, it's yours. Donnalynn Riley30:54I can be a part of this energy and I can be a part of that energy and I don't have to really understand it intellectually. I just have to decide that I'm willing to be a part of that. brandon handley31:05Right. No, I see ideas. Do you even know how you're here. Right. I mean, we don't even understand how we're here to begin with, I mean. So where does that leave us so 31:19Let's talk a little bit more about the outside of the story. Thanks for sharing that. That was Donnalynn Riley31:22My pleasure. Thanks for bringing it up. I, I had 31:26Was I was gonna tell it. brandon handley31:27Yes. I mean you know that, but that's that's kind of how you got into this space. And then, you know, I'm guessing that you kind of incorporated. Now some of this spiritual practice modality. And you were seeing the benefits that it was having in the business space. 31:41So at Donnalynn Riley31:42That time 31:43I was actually the CEO of a corporation. 31:46Okay, so 31:49This was what my life was like, like my every day was going to work as the CEO of a corporation. 31:56Right, so, you know, to, to become to to shift perspective in this massive way and then go back to work the next day and be like, 32:08Oh yeah, I'm gonna do it, just the way I used to do it. 32:11Let them work out. 32:13Right, so there had to be for me a re assessing a real understanding of the business world so that and the end the specifics of my business involvement with people so that I could find peace with the 32:36The 32:38Pathway that we were on brandon handley32:40Okay. Donnalynn Riley32:40So I had many years to do that. I didn't leave that world until 32:452014 and I that the story I told. And when I got my licensure was well 32:55The story I told started in 2007 32:58Okay, so it was putting a time in their 33:02Right to Try concepts out to go to work and to feel differently about things and then see what happens. And now have to take action right away. 33:12To decide that your solution to this relationship problem with an employee with the board of directors with it. Whoever whoever you're dealing with with with the clients themselves. 33:27That you are going to shift that but not by going in and saying something different or doing something different and being like, I am different. Now, now you behave differently, right, which is how people love to approach it. 33:38Sure does not work doesn't work, just 33:42But to really be able to take the time to say okay I am willing to to try everything that I have learned out on myself and to teach it to my staff and to pass it along to people who come and ask for it. 34:02There was a lot of opportunity right now. I'm seeing a lot of people in a day. And there's a lot of opportunity and people will ask you the wildest things 34:10Sure. And so 34:14Yeah, so I had that I had that. And so that was a way for me to really shift the way that I saw business. And what I knew for a fact would work in business. 34:27I had a lot of knowing what didn't work. And some of what did work. I had attained a position and, you know, was filling that position. Well, and all of that. But I really was able to sort of AMP that all up by 34:40By being able to try these things and not know 34:45If they were going to work. 34:47And do them anyway. brandon handley34:49What would be an example of that. Donnalynn Riley34:55Well, there was at one point there was a time when the board of directors was not happy with me. 35:04Man I know, it doesn't mean it doesn't even make sense. 35:06No, it doesn't. It kind of in this world. 35:09And and was not happy with anyone in my 35:15In my purview at all like not like there was no one. And so there was one particular board member who would come in and 35:24Kind of create difficulty. Right. It was a time of change. And I was directing the, the company in a direction that was scary and different and new 35:36And that was not really okay for that board and so that member would come in and and sort of undermine what was happening or stand in the way of what was happening. 35:49And I don't think that was the intention, but I think that it was really to look out for the company and to like really well founded. But really bad idea. And so this went on for 36:05Several weeks several weeks and different members of my staff kept coming to me and saying, what are we going to do this can't go on and I would have a chat and, you know, it still went on and that was the way it was. And I had tried a lot of business solutions for this. 36:23But one day I decided that I was going to just focus on the inner work and I spent all of my off time 36:34Doing that inner work and it was a process it. A lot of times people like me to sort of distill it down into one thing that I did. And certainly, I could name some things that you can do in that scenario but 36:48Really, the important thing was that I was no longer tied to the outcome based on yesterday. 36:56So that we had been through it right. This has been going on for weeks, we had tried everything we know what didn't work. We know. No, no. Right. But we didn't really we didn't because today is a new day. 37:09And this is a new moment. 37:11Right. And so once that happened once there was a disassociation with the past, then 37:19The process of becoming holy present and allowing the other people to become wholly present other this person in particular. 37:29Then the, the issues that are around, it can be dealt with and the attitude can shift. And there can no longer be. It doesn't have to be an aggressive situation, which is what had developed 37:41Right. But once that all dissipates. Then you can have the real conversations about the work that really should be being done in those in that scenario. 37:52Right, I should be held accountable for that in my position and that person should be able to say what they have to say. But there was no space for 38:00Any of that. 38:02And to east and east and east and about two weeks later, one of the gentlemen that work for me came to me and said, What did you do 38:13What did you do 38:14Well you fixed it for you, but you didn't fix it for me. 38:19And I said, Well, I could teach you what it was like, why can't you just fix it. brandon handley38:26That's funny. That's funny. So one of the things that you kind of, you start out there to with the is not having to take action right away, right, because we feel that 38:36We need to take this action immediately to for some type of corrective measure like 38:42Where the like where the savior of whatever is happening, they're like, well, there's no we got to fix this. Right. But you're saying though, you just kind of step back. Yeah. But some of the things just play out on their own and right Donnalynn Riley38:55Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. There's actually a three step process that I teach that 39:02Is a called the triple a method of transformation and that three step process is really important. Some people get one step. 39:12Some people get two steps, but rarely do we hear people talk about the third, the middle step right 39:18Right. So the first step in that is awareness and we've talked a lot about that today, which is 39:23Wonderful. And the third step in that is the action stage right the adaptation. What are you going to do, usually people kind of jump from one to the other and they go, they go like, yes, I'm aware there's a problem. Now I have a solution. 39:38And it's the middle step that is the most important and that really isn't an accurate assessment, you can't make an accurate assessment, unless you're in a receiving mode you're in a 39:58Listening period. A watching period a learning period right it's you can't assess something. If you think you know everything about it already. 40:09So you have to do the exploration that is that middle stage that's between Awareness. Awareness of yourself awareness of your situation and then 40:21Learning so that you can be accurate in your assessment. And that's, I think, really where most of the time it all falls apart is that the assessment is not accurate. 40:33Hmm. And so that's how you jump from the one step to the other step is that you go like now I got this move on. 40:43But you don't know yet. But there's like a guy behind the curtain run and my thing. You know what I mean. 40:48Sure. 40:49So that's brandon handley40:51That's more than you know awareness of your thought process awareness of the, you know, conscious choices awareness of doing these things. 41:00With purpose and intention, but also, you know, I like how you bring up this you know accurate assessment piece because it was just yesterday as matter of fact I sat down with a transformational coach and 41:14It was what you're saying here is you can assess, but kind of like a and I feel like this is what I had done right I assess the situation quickly. 41:24And felt that was good enough. Right. And then he goes, Well, I think, actually, you need to go one more layer deeper. Yeah. And he took me one more layer deeper. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, Donnalynn Riley41:35Totally different answer to. Right. brandon handley41:37Well, totally different answer. Totally different feeling totally different space in place and you know 41:44Therefore, ergo my assessment initially was not accurate. Yeah, that's right. Right. 41:53And you know we're here. We keep learning and this, this is even has to do with just, you know, if you're working with a client, they feel like they know who they are. All right. And you've got it you what you're doing is you're helping them to slow down and 42:07Truly learn who they really are. Yeah. Donnalynn Riley42:09That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I think that was true for me. So I think that one of the things that makes it easier for me to 42:18To talk to people is that I've stood someplace. Very, very similar to where they're standing and so that feeling like I know especially having some early success. 42:30Right, sure. No, I do. No. 42:33No, I did it. I know how to do it. No, no, actually you don't 42:39Because you did it, but you didn't know how you did it. 42:41Yeah, you did it, but you can't repeat it, and 42:46Source, all of that. brandon handley42:48Sure, yeah. 42:50But it's looking those steps and and and i think that we've been fortunate, right, like a laughed at the beginning how there's, you know, 43:00There's pathways for us to take you know that the plenty of people have done this before us. We're not the first people to show up like I got this. 43:08Follow me like there's no whole whole society is built on this and 43:13We're lucky that we've got that available to us right that framework, the possibility to kind of 43:18Go to even you right or you know your spiritual coaches to run them in the first time, like there's a whole nother way. 43:25And it fits into this and, oh, I can get the same results by but but by doing it this way instead of this other brash like I'm going to take the bull by the horns and crush everybody mentality. Right. Yeah. Donnalynn Riley43:40Yeah, I, I, actually, when I first kind of got that there was another way and that it was actually more effective I so I had been into herbs, my whole life where I felt like I i liked spices in my food, and I 43:54I knew some of the properties of things. And I would you know give myself cold medicine by eating the garlic or whatever it was. Right, sure, and and 44:03I got that there was, I knew about herbs and spices that there were in different parts of the world, they would do the same things, but be totally different plans. 44:13And I was like, 44:14Oh, I don't really get why that's true, that you can take turmeric from India and you can take, you know, yarrow from North America and you're going to get a similar thing and happening for you. 44:29And I, I knew that it was possible, but I couldn't make any sense of it until we got to this concept, this concept of being present and being aware 44:44And showing up in a new way and then taking action. Then I got, oh, there are just so many ways, right. I could have said 10 different things in that moment. 44:57And gotten a really similar response to that, or maybe my relationship problem, like I've, I've worked with people a lot with 45:07business relationships where they're particularly with employees, where they're not getting the results they want with the employees and they feel like it's the employees problem. 45:18And that works. The first or second or third employee, but it does not work after that. 45:23To face a few things. 45:26And you can try all the techniques you want, right, there's a lot of management techniques and those i'm sure can be effective in under certain circumstances. 45:37But really when you're willing to do that work inside you and the technique, doesn't matter anymore because 45:45The result can happen regardless of the technique that you're using, sort of like that plant it's planted in a, you know, different sides of the earth, but it's helping your body because the world is meant to support us for sure that's what that's what is here for brandon handley46:01At least from our perspective. Hundred percent hundred percent Donnalynn Riley46:05Plant feels like it's there for them. brandon handley46:08But what I just I just saw like you know I think somebody talk. I think I was listening to Wayne Dyer right and he's talking about like if you lift the seeds or whatever and you plant them that they take in that your DNA, and they grow to to you. 46:21Yeah, so 46:22So I'll always always something interesting. 46:26Always something interesting. Geez, you said something there that I wanted to hit on but uh what you know. 46:34So what are some. What are some that's what's gonna say, so you're, you know, the techniques become 46:42More like a again a vehicle for what's inside of you, right, and that's your focal point, you're like, All right, you know, 46:49It's the techniques, not working. It's because I look I take to jujitsu right and oftentimes the, the deal is, I'm using a technique, but I'm also trying to put all this force power behind like 47:04Running grown in 47:06But it's when I relax and just simply apply the technique. 47:11That it works. I'm like, why, what this doesn't make any sense. Right. So again, it sounds like you know if you do the inner work and you figure out kind of what's in you just you just kind of let that out, Masha, but you focus it gently on the technique, it works. Donnalynn Riley47:23Yeah, we're back where we were when we started right life can be a lot easier than we make it brandon handley47:30And and so you know what what are 47:34What are some of the other things that you're finding with your clients right. How are they, what's their reception been to their new selves. Donnalynn Riley47:44Reception to their new cells. Fantastic question. 47:48Wow. I like I'm pretty good. brandon handley47:54Sure. Donnalynn Riley47:55You know, it feels a lot better to be not frustrated and not irritated and have a new way to accept your imperfections and to say I can be whole and I can show up and I can shift my life in these ways where I get the result that I want and still be may brandon handley48:18Not have to Donnalynn Riley48:19Turn into somebody else. I mean, I think these are the kinds of things that a lot of times people really feel like, all right, I want to go there. So I'll just be someone else for a while. 48:33They 48:34Got themselves off from themselves, right. brandon handley48:36So, Donnalynn Riley48:37And this is how people end up to be older and more bitter. 48:43And then eventually at some point they say I'm not doing that anymore. And sometimes that's at retirement age sometimes that's a lot earlier. 48:52You're really lucky if you don't have a lot of patience for that kind of thing in your life. brandon handley48:57Well, you know, you know, recently, my wife, she she hit that point right she just said this is enough. This is too much and and she's now you know we come from two different types of backgrounds. Right. 49:08Where she came from, you know, the you work hard, you get a job you keep that job for as long as you can, it's safe. It's good. They watch out for you. 49:16But at what cost, right, I think you'd mentioned that to like what costs like you're the costs. 49:22Is you your life, your, your whole, you know, they call it grind it out for a reason. You're losing each day to the grind. So I don't want to keep you too long, but this has been, I've had a lot of fun with this conversation. 49:35A lot of fun with this conversation. 49:37Where, where should and we did talk about you do have something coming up. I want to make sure people know that you've got this, you've got this challenge come out to us talk on that. Donnalynn Riley49:45You. I do. I have a five day 49:49Workshop, or I'm 49:53Just loving the words just scramble away from you. brandon handley49:56Absolutely, it says all day every day. 49:59To Donnalynn Riley49:59Day challenge coming up and it, it is called get out of your head. Embrace your imperfections and get on track with your business. 50:10And so that's what we're going to do for five days, we're going to go through the process and we're going to really delve into that process. We talked a little bit more 50:19Earlier about the AAA method of transformation and get to apply some of that and really see what kind of 50:29changes we can make in such a short period of time for lots and lots of people to to quiet the noise to to find that space that we've been talking about and to still be wholly yourself to really embrace that you're okay, as Your imperfections and then apply that process. 50:51It's a very interesting process, I think. 50:53It will be really great to see how everybody does. brandon handley50:56That's awesome. So what type of people should be attending this event. Donnalynn Riley51:00Anyone who's interested in business. 51:05Who is open. Yeah. 51:07Yeah, so this is this work is not easy. It's not like, you know, kind of, you were talking about this with talking about your wife's background and a lot of people come from a background where it's kind of supposed to be hard. And when life is not fun. They say, what is it they say they say brandon handley51:27Oh my lemonade. 51:31Life's not supposed to be fair, I don't know. Donnalynn Riley51:33Yeah, all that brandon handley51:34All that stuff. Donnalynn Riley51:35So what, like, I get that. And there are people who need that kind of structure in their life, and they're not ready to let go of that that's okay with me. brandon handley51:43Yeah. Donnalynn Riley51:43Don't come to mind. 51:47But anyone everyone. I hope Pro has a business involvement writing particularly I work for the most part with entrepreneurs. 51:57So you're the driver of your business boat, it makes it much easier. And who wants to work on something and knows that the answer is somewhere in them might they're willing to do some work for it. That is personal. That is development personal development work. 52:20And and really you show up with willingness and I'd be happy to guide you all the way through the process that would be great. brandon handley52:30Awesome and listen. 52:32You know, you've had you been a successful CEO, you started off successful businesses you sold businesses. 52:41And, you know, for anybody, which website. Again, Donald in Donnalynn Riley52:46Donnellan Riley calm. brandon handley52:48Down. So head over to the site shine house or for videos yourself, you will be able to see 52:53That she knows what she's talking about. So I think that that's really exciting. And, you know, we didn't dig too deep into the business aspects of today. We just had a really great. I felt like conversation. 53:03But you clearly know you know what it is that you're doing. You've done the work you contains to do the work. And you know what you're putting out. I think there's no top notch really really quality stuff. Donnalynn Riley53:13Thank you so much. It was really a pleasure to be here and to get to talk about this topic in such depth. So that's really nice. It's great that you're talking about this in a in a really deep way this sort of spirituality and business and in that space. brandon handley53:28You know what, you got to be able to like you keep saying, and that's what it means to bring all of who you are right, they're not two separate things. If you keep your spiritual self over here and your material or reality over here, you're missing out on the one, two punch you know 53:44You really you've really got the opportunity to kind of blend you're you're working at 50% of capacity. Yeah, right. So he can 53:51You know blend those two which which I know you can teach how to do what you get to bring to your workplace or wherever you decide to show up after you learn about who you are. It's just, it's that much more powerful. Yeah. Donnalynn Riley54:04It really is. brandon handley54:05Yeah. Hundred percent. Thanks again. Donnalynn Riley00:59:18Thank you.
Acts 19:2141 (ESV) A Riot at Ephesus 21Now after these events Paul resolved in the Spirit to pass through Macedonia and Achaia and go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome. 22And having sent into Macedonia two of his helpers, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while. 23About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way. 24For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen. 25These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said, Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth. 26And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods. 27And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship. 28When they heard this they were enraged and were crying out, Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! 29So the city was filled with the confusion, and they rushed together into the theater, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Pauls companions in travel. 30But when Paul wished to go in among the crowd, the disciples would not let him. 31And even some of the Asiarchs, who were friends of his, sent to him and were urging him not to venture into the theater. 32Now some cried out one thing, some another, for the assembly was in confusion, and most of them did not know why they had come together. 33Some of the crowd prompted Alexander, whom the Jews had put forward. And Alexander, motioning with his hand, wanted to make a defense to the crowd. 34But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! 35And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd, he said, Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis, and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky? 36Seeing then that these things cannot be denied, you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash. 37For you have brought these men here who are neither sacrilegious nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38If therefore Demetrius and the craftsmen with him have a complaint against anyone, the courts are open, and there are proconsuls. Let them bring charges against one another. 39But if you seek anything further, it shall be settled in the regular assembly. 40For we really are in danger of being charged with rioting today, since there is no cause that we can give to justify this commotion. 41And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly.
Acts 17:1634 (ESV) Paul in Athens 16Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. 18Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, What does this babbler wish to say? Others said, He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinitiesbecause he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean. 21Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. Paul Addresses the Areopagus 22So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: To the unknown god. What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28for In him we live and move and have our being; as even some of your own poets have said, For we are indeed his offspring. 29Being then Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead. 32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, We will hear you again about this. 33So Paul went out from their midst. 34But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.
False Teachers and True Contentment--Teach and urge these things. 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the soundb words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7for we brought nothing into the world, andc we cannot take anything out of the world. 8But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. 1 Timothy 6-2-10---If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me. 25If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake, you will save it. 26And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul-l Is anything worth more than your soul- 27For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father and will judge all people according to their deeds. Matthew 16-24-28
4:26And to Seth also a son was born, and he called him Enosh. At that time men began to call upon the name of the LORD. 5 1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in His own likeness. 2Male and female He created […]
Peter said... “Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.” So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.” Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the Eleven Apostles. Acts 1:21–26And with that we have the first new bishop! The Feast of St. Matthias is a celebration of the continuation of the apostolic ministry. By honoring St. Matthias we honor the fact that Jesus enabled His first Apostles to pass on the sacred power of their ordination to others as their successors. St. Matthias took the place of Judas. And as the Church continued to grow, there were others picked and given the grace of ordination as bishops. Today, every one of our bishops has a direct line of succession to one or more of the Apostles. This unbroken succession is our direct connection to the priestly ministry of Jesus as it is passed on to the Church.What a gift this is! It’s true that not every bishop or priest is a saint. We are all quite aware of that. But it is also true that every bishop and priest shares in the wonderful gift of Christ’s priestly ministry. And this ministry is not for them, it’s for you. Jesus desired that He continue His ministry in a concrete, personal and human way. He desired that He would be present at every Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Communion. He desired to personally be there administering these graces to His people. And He is there, through the ministry of the bishop or priest. The key is to see Christ in that ministry. Every priest or bishop is a unique representation of Christ in his own way. They each reflect Christ in their human personality and holiness. But, more importantly, they represent Christ by acting in His very person. Jesus speaks His words of absolution and consecration through them. So we need to see beyond the surface and see Christ Jesus. This is entirely possible if we approach God’s ministers in faith.Reflect, today, upon the way you approach God’s priests and bishops. How do you speak about them? Do you seek Christ in them? Are you open to Christ ministering through them? The apostolic ministry in which they share is a true gift from Christ and must be loved and accepted as if we were accepting Christ Himself...because that’s exactly what we are doing.Lord, thank You for the gift of your ordained ministers. Thank you for the bishop and for all the priests who have ministered Your Word and Sacraments to me. I pray for them today that they may continue to be holy instruments of Your love. Jesus, I trust in You.Source of content: catholic-daily-reflections.comCopyright © 2020 My Catholic Life! Inc. All rights reserved. Used with permission via RSS feed.
25And Adam again had relations with his wife, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another seed in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” 26And to Seth also a son was born, and he called him Enosh. At that time men began to invoke the […]
Are you looking for an Owensboro Church you can believe in? During this episode of the HIS Church Youtube Sermon Series Pastor Brian Gibson reassures us why not to panic and Trust in God! Full YouTube Service | https://youtu.be/TwfsxUarjdg YouTube Sermon | https://youtu.be/LZODuwK4nJU Matthew 8:23-29 23And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him. 24And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep. 25And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. 26And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. 27But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! 28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. 29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Learn more about HIS Church today by visiting http://www.hischurch.cc/ or by calling us today at 270-926-6009. HIS Church Owensboro Campus 4810 Frederica Street Owensboro, KY 42301 HIS Church Amarillo Campus 6300 Arden Rd Amarillo, TX 79109 HIS Church Dumas Campus 10 Elm Ave Dumas, TX 79029 HIS Church Henderson Campus Preston Fine Arts Center 2660 S. Green Street Henderson, KY 42420
Are you looking for an Owensboro Church you can believe in? During this episode of the HIS Church Youtube Sermon Series Pastor Brian Gibson teaches us about how to Think Blessed. Full Service YouTube | https://youtu.be/F3LWdj29fv0 Sermon YouTube | https://youtu.be/xDAYyQvNMYQ Galatians 3:9-14 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Deuteronomy 28:15-27 15But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22The Lord shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24The Lord shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. 26And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away. 27The Lord will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. Learn more about HIS Church today by visiting http://www.hischurch.cc/ or by calling us today at 270-926-6009. HIS Church Owensboro Campus 4810 Frederica Street Owensboro, KY 42301 HIS Church Amarillo Campus 6300 Arden Rd Amarillo, TX 79109 HIS Church Dumas Campus 10 Elm Ave Dumas, TX 79029 HIS Church Henderson Campus Preston Fine Arts Center 2660 S. Green Street Henderson, KY 42420
Welcome to the first episode of the Miracle Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Podcast for the new decade. In this episode, host John Haggard chats with Kathleen Barrett, the controller at Miracle Auto Group. So what does a controller do in the company? You’ll find out here along with these other topics: Welcome to the first episode of the Miracle Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Podcast of the new decade. In this episode, host John Haggard chats with Kathleen Barrett, the controller at Miracle Auto Group. So what does a controller do in the company? You’ll find out here along with these other topics: Kathleen’s High School Days as a Basketball Player in KentuckyHer Activities During Her Time OffChanges in the Gallatin AreaKathleen’s History at MiracleChanges in the Auto IndustryWorking With the Miracle Family Transcript John Haggard 0:02Welcome to the Miracle Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Podcast where each week, you will learn the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, accessorize, and sell your vehicle for the highest resale value possible, when you’re ready. I’m your host, John Haggard. And you know, throughout each month we do have different team members join us from Miracle. They help you consider why you’d want to consider your next vehicle purchase or service repair at Miracle. And we also interview Summer County leaders to find out what’s going on in the community for events that you might be interested in as well. So on today’s podcast, we’re talking with Kathleen Barrett at Miracle Auto Group. Kathleen is the controller at Miracle. Hey, Kathleen, welcome to the podcast. Kathleen Barrett 0:45Thank you, John. Glad to be here. John Haggard 0:46Well, we’re glad you’re here and before we actually delve into finding out what is a controller and what does a controller do, tell us a little about you. Are you from this area, from the Gallatin area? Kathleen Barrett 0:59Not originally. I’m from Kentucky, but I’ve lived here for over 40 years. So I feel like I’m from here. I’m from Gallatin. John Haggard 1:07Okay. So in Kentucky, what part of Kentucky? Kathleen Barrett 1:11Henderson and Madisonville. John Haggard 1:12So when you were in high school just looking back when things were going that way, what was the most fun thing you did as a high schooler? Kathleen Barrett 1:21Played basketball. John Haggard 1:22A basketball star. All right. So you are 6’3″ or are you tall? What position did you play? Kathleen Barrett 1:33I played center. John Haggard 1:34All right. All right. So do you make a lot of a lot of scores, a lot of baskets? Kathleen Barrett 1:38I gave it all I could, that’s for sure. John Haggard 1:41All right. So you had a winning team? Kathleen Barrett 1:43Yeah, we won quite a bit. John Haggard 1:45Okay. What do you like to do on your time off? Kathleen Barrett 1:48Oh, I love to go wherever my grandchildren go. They’re either playing softball or singing, whatever event they’re doing, I’m there. John Haggard 1:56You’re there. Yeah, you know the Gallatin area is just exploding. It’s one of the big fast-growth areas. What do you see as you look around Gallatin that makes it an exciting place? If somebody says, you know, I’m trying to figure out sort of like where to relocate? Kathleen Barrett 2:12It is really growing. When I do get out in and drive around a little I’m thinking my goodness, it is really growing in this town. John Haggard 2:20Any favorite restaurant that you like to go to? Kathleen Barrett 2:23Oh, I love to go to LongHorn‘s. John Haggard 2:25All right. Are you a big steak eater? Kathleen Barrett 2:28Yeah, like steak and ribs. The ribs are awesome. John Haggard 2:31So let’s talk about Kathleen, how did you get into the car business? Kathleen Barrett 2:37Well, I applied for a job at Miracle Ford over 30 years ago, and I was hired and worked there for several years. And that’s where it all started. John Haggard 2:48Okay, so what were you doing then? Kathleen Barrett 2:50I was the title clerk. John Haggard 2:52Okay. All right. And for folks that don’t understand what a title clerk is exactly, what is that? Kathleen Barrett 2:57When you purchase a vehicle you Sign your documents and in the finance office and then it goes to the accounting office. And we have to process the paperwork and get your tags and that’s what the title clerk does. John Haggard 3:11Alright, so your job is controller now at Miracle Auto Group. When you hear that word, controller, you almost think, do you take a whip around there and, you know, sort of whip people in the shape or what does a controller really do? Kathleen Barrett 3:26Well, we do a number of things. You know, we’re kind of a jack of all trades. We oversee the financial operations of the dealership from, you know, beginning to end. We take care of the money, we take care of just whatever needs to be. John Haggard 3:42And before you got into the automotive business, what did you do before? Kathleen Barrett 3:47I worked at the Sumner County Highway Department for a number of years. John Haggard 3:51Okay! Kathleen Barrett 3:52And then, I was a stay at home mom after that for a while. John Haggard 3:56Okay, now at Sumner County. What were you doing? Kathleen Barrett 4:00I was in the accounting office. John Haggard 4:02Okay. All right. And you said that you applied for a job at Miracle Ford. And I guess they liked the application. And so they hired you. They brought you in. And how long have you been controller at Miracle Auto Group? Kathleen Barrett 4:18For 15 years. John Haggard 4:19Okay. And as controller does that mean you are over both stores? There’s Miracle Ford and Miracle Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram? Kathleen Barrett 4:27Yes, I’m over both stores. I’ve actually been here 19 years that I’ve been the controller for 15. John Haggard 4:34Okay. Well, you’ve been around the car business for a pretty good while and you’ve probably seen some changes in the purchase of cars and the lease of cars. What would you – what’s different about the industry today versus say, maybe five or 10 years ago? Kathleen Barrett 4:49Yeah, there’s a lot of differences. Places have changed quite a bit. It’s hard to get into as they once were. Things like, you know, vehicles obviously have changed a lot. You just look at some of our new products we have now and you think good night, you know, these are just awesome vehicles. John Haggard 5:08Yeah. And as you look around, and if you were going to give someone advice on the best way to search to buy a new car or a Pre Owned vehicle, if you were saying, look, if you’re in the market, you know, here are the two or three things or four things, maybe five things you want to consider before you do anything. What would you tell them? Kathleen Barrett 5:30Well, the first thing I’d tell them is to come and join the Miracle family. We strive really hard to make people happy with their vehicle purchase. If you don’t see the vehicle on our lot, that does not mean that we can’t locate it for you. All you need to do is come in and talk to us. Let us know what you’re looking for. And we will certainly do our best to put your dreams in your driveways. You don’t just come and buy a car and that’s it. We take care of you. We do the service you need on your vehicle. We go the extra mile for our customers. John Haggard 6:06Miracle is a family business. Some dealerships are owned by large corporations How would you describe the atmosphere at Miracle? Kathleen Barrett 6:17Miracle is a family-owned and operated dealership we take pride in taking care of our customers. We’re all one big family whereas everybody is, you’re with your team more than your at your home a lot of times and we’re all one big family. We take care of each other. We look out for each other. We take care of our, you know, our number one priority is taking care of our customers. John Haggard 6:41What do you see that’s going on in Gallatin in the next maybe 1 to 3 years that people would want to know about? Kathleen Barrett 6:49I’m sure I mean, I don’t know, but I would speculate that they’ll be another high school before long in the area. There has to be, there’s so much growth John Haggard 6:58And as you look around and the tenure, how long people have worked at Miracle, what do you see as you kind of look in the departments? How long do people or how long have people been working there? Kathleen Barrett 7:10Oh, we have people that have been here from day one. You know, we, I think the lowest person in my accounting office has been there, other than the person I just hired, they’ve been there pretty much six years or longer. John Haggard 7:26And that must say a lot then. You got to have a good working environment where people want to stay. Kathleen Barrett 7:31Yes, that actually might be an inaccurate number. I believe it’s eight years, now that I think about it. But yeah, we don’t have a big turnover, not in our accounting department at all. We don’t really anywhere, our people are they like where they work. And the Galvin’s are good to work for, so we are lucky. John Haggard 7:54Yeah. So tell us about the Galvin’s, those who are behind you and behind the dealerships. Kathleen Barrett 8:00They’re just an awesome family, I’ve known them for over 30 years and, you know, they want what’s best for their employees and their customers and right in here working right along beside us every day. John Haggard 8:15So they actually do work? Kathleen Barrett 8:17Absolutely. John Haggard 8:19Right. That’s good. That’s good. Thanks, Kathleen! Kathleen Barrett, everybody the controller at Miracle Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, and Ford. Join us again right here for other topics on the podcast throughout each month. Our goal right here is to show you the best ways to purchase, lease, service and maintain, accessorize, and sell your vehicle for the highest resale value when you’re ready to do it. And you’ll also hear our podcast with Sumner County leaders and shakers to find out what’s going on in the Gallatin-Sumner County area for events that you might be interested in. And don’t forget this part here, transcripts of each podcast right here on the website so you can easily refer to it we’re information right there at your fingertips. I’m your host, John Haggard, and we will see you next time.
Thankful For A Thief 11.17.19 - ThanksLiving Series (Thief Stories - Safe, AC)ThanksLiving Challenge: Become Grateful For The Thing I’m Most Ungrateful For. What I’m Most Think Of The Person, Circumstance, Or Event In Your Life That You Are The Most Ungrateful For? Then, Ask God For A New Level Of Faith That Includes Gratitude For That Too. (LINCOLN- Day Of National Thanksgiving)1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 16Rejoice always; 17pray without ceasing; 18in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.ALL MEANS... “ALL”pás: ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.This Greek word basically means "these things all taken together", not partially, not by piece and partial.Romans 8:26-28 26And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (Thankful for a Thief - Gift Thanks - Les Miserables)WHY GRATITUDE?Because Gratitude Is The Key To The Door That Unlocks Joy. Because Reality. This Really IS Your Life Right Now. It Is The ONLY Life You Have. Because Gratitude In The Journey Is ALL There Is. Nothing Else Can Be Changed.Because: “You Can’t Get There From Here.” When Your Starting Line Is Ungrateful, Your Finish Line Will Also Be Ungrateful. You Will Always Find What You’re Looking For. It’s Who You Are, Not What You Do.Because You Don’t Know The End Of The Story.(Chinese Video)2 Corinthians 4:16-18 16Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. 17For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, 18while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
In the final episode of Beneath the Subsurface Season One, we're focusing on Well Data Products and the full gamut of subsurface intelligence that can be gleaned from leveraging Well Data with Seismic. Caroline Brignac sits down with Jason Kegel, Ted Mirenda and Katie Fearn for a deep dive into the evolution of well data and how it’s used in today’s workflows.EXPLORE MORE FROM THE EPISODEProduction ForecastingCompletion DataWell Data ProductsInterpretation ProductsWell Production DataGlobal Well DataUS BasinsTABLE OF CONTENTS00:00 - Intro01:42 - Evolution of Well Data Products at TGS03:25 - Production Data & it's Uses07:38 - Production Data and Thesis Work09:09 - Longbow: A Well Performance Visualization Tool with Analytics12:08 - What is Well Performance Data Used For?15:04 - Validated Well Headers & Interpretation20:26 - Well Logs and Production Data for Students, Interns & Early Career22:30 - Historical Production and Well Data24:43 - The Marriage of Seismic and Well Data: Interpretation26:48 - Historical Data and Microfiche?!29:44 - What About Offshore Well Data Products?34:34 - How Much Gulf Of Mexico Data Does TGS Have?39:00 - Seismic or Well Data... Why Not Both?40:20 - Analytics Ready LAS Data (ARLAS)43:49 - Eye Opening Data for Early Career48:48 - TGS Projects & Careers51:37 - Conclusion EPISODE TRANSCRIPTCaroline:00:12Hello and welcome to Beneath the Subsurface a podcast that explores the intersection of geoscience and technology. This is Caroline Brignac from the well data products group at TGS. In This episode we'll explore our well data products and how they prove to be critical datasets for any exploration and development program. So go ahead and we'll get started with introductions for today's podcast. We've got Jason Kegel with us. Jason why don't you to tell us a little bit about yourself? Jason:00:39Sure. My name's Jason. I work with the geology group here at TGS. I'm a geologist I've been here for six years. I work pretty closely with our well data products and our seismic products. Caroline:00:50Awesome. Thanks Jason. We also have Ted Miranda with us. Ted, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Ted:00:55Sure. Thank you. Caroline. Ted Mirenda. So I'm with TGS. Well, data products group. I've been here for 10 years now. A primary task was to bring production data to TGS and commercialize that product. It's been a lot of work and exciting. Caroline:01:12That's awesome. I'm really excited about having Katie with us. She's a production geologists for a super major. Katie, welcome. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your experience with TGS. Katie:01:21Thank you, Caroline. I am a recent graduate school graduate and I loved my time at TGS where I got to use Longbow and R360 and then I carried those things that I had learned and into my schoolwork in grad school and it's been awesome. Caroline:01:39So Katie, you started with us as an intern, correct? Katie:01:42Correct. Caroline:01:42That's awesome. Well, we're really excited to have you here and talk a little bit about what your experience with TGS, our products and how you use it in the industry. So one thing that we know a lot about TGS is that it's known as a seismic company. However, TGS offers a wide range of other products such as products in well data. Ted, would you mind telling us a little bit about the well data products division and how it's evolved over time? Ted:02:07Sure. I guess we can step back to 2002 when TGS officially acquired a little company called A2D that gave A2D's the resources to further go out and I believe in acquire Riley's electric log inventory. So that led to the largest commercial well log library. Other resources that TGS provided or enabled was the ability to digitize hard copies and raster logs to LAS. And that library has grown over time where I came into play now 10 years ago after growing the LAS library TGS made the the decision to what's next with well data, well, let's bring in production data. That's when I came into mix. We started building our production data library up. It's been a long challenging project, but it's really paid off. One of the things that critical decision we decided to do was not acquire any production data assets, but build that data from the ground floor up. That meant more work. But in the long run, it's a more valuable product. Caroline:03:25So when you talk about production data, what exactly are you talking about and what does that look like? Ted:03:30Well, we're talking about the full historical production record of every well in the United States. So when you think about different pieces of information that our clients use and need what the well has produced, the reservoir fluids captured from each wellbore is about as important a piece of information as you can have going forward. So we capture that information, really important to tie it to the proper wellbore and a really detailed well header record. There's a lots, a lot of other processes that we do with that as well to then provide the data to our clients. Caroline:04:16So we know that we have, Jason has some experience as well as Katie with this dataset. Would you mind telling us about how you guys use it in your role in the industry? Jason:04:25Sure. So I know at TGS we use the production data quite a bit, looking at our different mapping projects we have. So when we look across the entire, especially United States and look for new areas to shoot on shore seismic, we like to have a really good background information on what companies are actually producing, how much they produced in the past. Can a lot of times tell you where the, where the new plays are and it's always been said that where you found oil before you'll find oil again. And that's been proven over and over again. When we look at the Permian basin, which has been producing since, you know, the 1910, 1920s and today it's one of the biggest basins in the world and we're still finding oil there. So it's nice to really see those historical records of production and where people have gone. On top of that, the Longbow database gives you completion information so you can start really seeing where exactly within the geology has been drilled and how they have done it. So you can get some engineering insight into that as well. Over the years at TGS we've brought all that together to really start looking at new areas where clients want to go and where we can start bringing them seismic. Caroline:05:34So Katie, we knew that you started off as an intern here at TGS a few years ago and we know that you worked with Jason on his team to help sort of guide where we'd go next with our products. What was your experience with the production dataset and Longbow? Katie:05:48So I used the production and information during my project, both at school and at during internship to help me understand the reservoir better so that I could clear up any uncertainties that I was curious about. So for example, I use production data during my time at school to help me understand if there was any reserves left that were not taken out. Ted:06:19Yeah, I know a lot of our clients then use that data to look for bypass opportunities. Another one of the many capabilities of leveraging production data. Jason talked about moving into the completion data side of what we call completion data. Kind of led that evolution. You know, horizontal drilling, unconventional tight reservoirs, fracking, I mean that led to a whole new need for different attributes captured about a well record. So we identify those pretty early on. I had been collecting those and now provide that kind of information to our clients. Not just perf intervals. What is the, what is the producing interval subsurface depth, but the length of the lateral that's being completed and produced correlating production rates, any U R S 2000 foot laterals, another way to really do better well economics and evaluation of assets. So it's, it never ends, you know, the data needs are constantly evolving and changing as industry changes and we follow that path. Jason:07:38So Katie, you said that you use some of our production data with your thesis work, correct. And that was in the, in Louisiana, the Tuscaloosa Marine shale, right? Katie:07:47Yes. Jason:07:47So the Wells and the data that you used there, were they mostly conventional Wells or where we also tried to look at some of the unconventional Wells there too, to define that play that you are looking at. Katie:08:01Right. So I would say the majority, I also focused on the lower Tuscaloosa, which was mostly conventional Wells. Jason:08:09So those Wells, they helped you define that play area and then you had to go deeper and deeper into the log data. Correct. Trying to see exactly what the formation was made up. And you did a sort of a real exploration study of that lower Tuscaloosa Marine shale Longbow helped you kind of understand exactly where the production had become historically and where it might go now and where, where people are drilling currently in the Tuscaloosa Marine shale. Katie:08:39Right. And we also did that with the Austin chalk too. That was another one of our big projects. Jason:08:44Right. And then when you, in the group that was here all from the university of Lafayette worked with us, we also looked up into the Haynesville and looked at some of the smack over units using Longbow quite a bit, looking for trends in conventional plays historically and then seeing where those went unconventionally and if Longbow is the, the main generator of the majority of that data. Caroline:09:09So for those of you listening in who may not be familiar with Longbow is that is our our visualization tool that sits on top of our well performance database. Ted, would you like to add to that? Ted:09:19Yeah, that's right. So you know, production data is a fairly complex data model, right? So you need a tool to search and search your way through that data library, identify Wells that are appropriate to your project assignments so Longbow started out as really as that initial search engine. Hey, you're connecting to almost 5 million Wells, right? In a cloud based database and you're typically going in your assignment, you're going to identify subsets of Wells based on location, geology, formation, operator assets. Hey, examine these assets that are for sale and tell me if it's worth it, right? So Longbow provides that search engine. However, over the, the years and the time, we've incorporated quite a bit of analytics into the search engine. So we're really proud of that. It's if you can think of having a search engine connected to a live database of every well and include analytics, make a bubble in contour map on six month cumulative by zone, you know, all that in one. It saves time. So it's been exciting. We've had great feedback from clients and we are really focused on, Hey, what do our clients want? That's what we put in Jason:10:46When you go. When you talk about analytics Ted, what has been the biggest benefit of forecasting for Longbow? Ted:10:54Well, okay, so that is another good point. Production data being the historical production for the wellbore. Again, the reservoir fluid produced once me and my team, I felt we were comfortable and really good at acquiring that data. I always wanted to move into the forecasting realm as well. So we have added to the, to the product feature every single month. Now every, well all active wells get forecasted to their economic limit, giving our clients quick access to EURs. So from that perspective, I can look at historical data for an example like Katie gave about looking for bypass opportunities. Where did prior operators leave hydrocarbon in the ground with forecasting, I can look at, okay, what's the total proposed value of an asset? How much is that asset going to produce? How much remains that's already there in the, in the analytic tool. So, and again, the different analytic tools include besides mapping, probability graphs, scatter plotting and charts. It's the full gamut. Jason:12:08So we have, Katie who has worked with this data as an intern. I work with this data internally with project development and sales. And then I know that I've gone out with you before and we, we sell this data, we try to give our clients opportunities to use this data. Are our clients, strictly exploration type geologists or engineers or do we have other sort of venues where this data's important in the oil and gas industry? Ted:12:36You know, that's a good point. I mean, our clients cover all those gamuts. You know, one thing, again, with production data, it's a valuable piece of information across an integrated oil company. Enterprise exploration, geologists exploration is of course petroleum engineering department, reservoir engineers that have to forecast production. It's really become a big tool also in the A&D world investment banking A&D world at oil companies, business development. And that's what I like about production data. Everybody finds a use and value out of it, Jason:13:23Right? And it seems everybody wants to know how long that well is going to last and where the next well is next to it. It's going to produce as much that really hard to find that information from anything other than production data. Ted:13:33And what's, you know, what's, what's recently happened and I was looking at right, or like writing a paper on this topic. But you know, right now, most of the think tank forecast for supply, they're all like redoing those and lowering them, you know, the Unconventionals. And we, when we started doing our forecast models, we realized that the horizontal Wells had to be looked at differently. And the decline rates on those, those Wells now are, what would I say, exceeding what we thought they would be. Ted:14:08We had this, you know, unconventional production had made perhaps a real the world with the real comfortable setting of endless oil supply and and you see the think tanks now readjusting those forecasts. So our model changed as well. We're looking at studies and how long Unconventionals are really going to produce and readjusting the EURs. And does that also have quite a bit to do with parent child relationships and how they're stacking Wells within the reservoir? It does, and right now that's what everybody's trying to figure out. That is really challenging looking at spacing, refracking spacing, how does another child affect the, the, the parent well and etc. What is the proper spacing that we try and provide the data to our clients to help them do that? Jason:15:04Right. And in some of those cases you said before with our header products that we have, that really has led to Delineating some of the production data with the validated well header. Can you explain a little bit more about how the validated well header helps understand different laterals and how that traces back to production? Ted:15:25Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's another key point, I think what was attractive to building production data here at TGS? You know, you go out and collect production data and for the most part, I mean, when you're getting public production data, the reality is that data is really coming in at a surface level. I mean, what does the state regulator care about? They just want to know how much did operator produce. So your severance, you're paying severance tax below the surface, they're not so much concerned about which zone is that coming from in which borehole? So here at TGS we have, we can leverage our validated well header dataset, which is our proprietary header where we've gone in, looked at the subsurface and identified missing boreholes. So we are in the process of tying our production data now to that validated header. So really moving production data down to the, to the, what we call the 12 digit API level. And that's really making a difference to our clients. Jason:16:39I know it's helped internally where we've gone used the perforation information. Ted:16:43That's right. Yup. Jason:16:45And actually track the perforations. And I'm not sure if you, you might've done this with this, some in your internship, Katie, where we looked at the perforated intervals on the Wells and then when we are doing our cross sections, we would actually see exactly where the perforations were and see where that oil was coming from. And that helps in a lot of situations in basins where you, you don't know a lot about the basin or you're going somewhere new and you're mapping and we'd see, you know, you'd see the Austin chalk and the Buddha and the Eagleford and you try to wonder, well, where exactly in those formations are they getting the oil from? Without those perforations that we'd got from Longbow, we couldn't truly track that back. We've been doing that more and more with the help from interns when you were here a few years ago and also with our newer interns to, to really try to understand that and then provide that on another level through R360 to start understanding where these Wells are actually producing from, which in some states they don't, they don't provide that information. Ted:17:42That's right. And that that really is a really neat project. I know for me and my team at the, and Ted talking about the production data, leveraging Jason and the geoscientists and the interpretation type work you do on your workstations where we can take our production, our perfs, you guys load it in, match it up with the LAS, correlate that production to the actual producing zone. It takes a while to do that, but we're doing that in projects going across different basins and it's really exciting. Jason:18:15No, it's been, it's been very valuable for us that in some of the test information that Longbow has also has in some states like Oklahoma and Texas, let's say, they don't have produced water for a lot of the production. So the only things that you can look back are some of the actual, that the test data that you have where you can find that water. And then a lot of these areas where you're running analytics on some of these Wells to see when they watered out or how much water they have per volume of oil. That's the only place you can get it. And then when you max that match that back to the perforated interval, you can really start understanding some more about those horizons and how much oil or how much oil you have left, but also how much water you're getting out, which is a huge issue right now with a lot of the unconventionals is water not only how much water you're putting in to stimulate if that's what you're doing, but how much formation water you're actually taking out and that could be a, that could be that the factor in having a well that's a good well or not good at all. Caroline:19:19So I know we've touched on production data and the well performance database that TGS offers, but TGS also offers other data like well logs, various types of well logs our validated well header that Jason just mentioned. Katie, I'm curious about your experience as a student getting data from TGS. Can you tell us a little bit of what that was like and how you use other well data with production data to help solve some of the, the issues you guys were running into? Katie:19:48I'm sure. Well, TGS was really helpful because like Jason said, if Jason and Ted said to the state, you don't have to provide good data to the public. So TGS' well logs, their production data was far superior to anything that I saw. So it definitely helped not just at school cause I use this product at UL but I also got to use it in our projects. So it made the uncertainties that were, we were curious about less uncertain. Right. Cause the subsurface is always uncertain. Caroline:20:26So to follow to build on that, Jason, how do you, how do you work more with well logs and production data together, especially when you're working with a group of young interns like Katie and her, her fellow interns Jason:20:39Well one of the things that we do in our group quite a bit is either look for for new areas or sort of redefine basins that have already had had exploration. So the main thing we do when we do that as we get as many well logs as we possibly can. So that's the, the LAS that we have for those areas. Working for TGS is nice because we have access to quite a bit of data. So we pull all those together and we start just doing cross-sections and fence diagrams and make picking our formation tops so that we have a real good general understanding of the basin. As we're doing that, we're also looking at the production data. So each one of those Wells is either a producer or not a producer or maybe it was just a stratigraphic exploration well. But the reason those Wells exist are to make somebody money. So hopefully they're all producers. Jason:21:32So we learned as much from a dry hole as we do from a hole that's not dry. That's where the production data comes in really handy cause we can see exactly how much oil they got out of that well when it was drilled, when it was plugged and abandoned. Some of the issues that might've gone on with it. So we can understand from looking at just some of the well logs themselves than the caliper per se, to see where you had the whole breakup and see where you might've had engineering issues with that well, where they might have crossed faults that might've caused to loss of production in certain areas. And we can tie that back using production to see exactly how these reservoirs work. And we can track that around better to see where explorationists, might need help delineating new fields or new areas. And that's where the seismic comes in with TGS to where we can try to get the seismic out to help limit some of these problems that were we might be seeing in some of the Wells. Caroline:22:30Out of curiosity I know that we offer a long range of historic production data. Recently we just acquired a company called Lasser that goes back far beyond the 1970s. As a geologist, would you say that having a larger dataset going back further in time is more beneficial for you to help solve problems? Jason:22:54Absolutely. So the one thing we've always ran into is not enough data, right? We always want more data. We want to see the complete picture of the entire basin. So having that data that goes farther back in time, that historic production data really helps because we have a lot of those well logs that are sort of historic historics our well logs and our Las don't stop at 1970 or earlier. The production data depending on state isn't necessarily at a strict cutoff of 1970 but that historic data really helps with that production to really start understanding how those wells were drilled. And like I said before exactly what was it producer and what wasn't producer and if it was producing, how long did it produce for? There's been lots of of technology advances that have really increased how much oil you can get out of the ground or gas you can get of the ground. Jason:23:45That's on a purely engineering basis and you can start to see that in the production data, but you can really start seeing that in some of the LAS data when you start looking at the curves and understanding some of the petrophysics behind the Wells. And not only that, you start understanding the basin. So when you look at some of these really old wells, a lot of them are really shallow just to sort of understand that's as far as they could drill to. That's where the technological limit was. But depending on the basin, some, some people in the forties and 50s had drilled all the way to basement. You really want those type of data points when you're understanding the entire basin. The deeper you understand the basin, the more history you can put into it. The more basin modeling you can do. If you can understand the basin from initial infill to present day and the erosion intervals that have been between there. We see that quite a bit in our base in temperature models, which is one of the products that we do that builds off of our LAS data. Caroline:24:43What other tools, interpretation tools do you use internally that TGS helps provide or provides to our clients? Jason:24:49Well firstly I mentioned the basin temperature models. That's one that we, we helped build and we provide to clients and that's a product where we look at the entire basin. We pick the tops in it from 2000 to 3000 Wells from the LAS. And then we do basin temperature modeling on that entire basin with grids and horizons, start understanding the the basin from completed from basement all the way up to the top and understanding the infill. We also provide other products, sort of worldwide called our facies map browser. And this is mainly offshore, but this is looking at sequence stratigraphy within offshore basins. Jason:25:29This one we also use well data and seismic data where we can and integrate the two of them to, to have a real good understanding and picture of the basin. So the geologists that use this data can jump right in to the basin and have a real good working knowledge of what's going on there. One thing in the industry, I've been in this industry for eight years now and I've seen lots of mergers and you know, lots of layoffs unfortunately with people, but groups shrink and grow all the time. And when they grow, people need to jump into new basins they've never been. So one thing that we provide with some of our well data products like the facies map browser and the basin temperature models easily help people easily get acclimated with basins they may have never worked. It's a, it's a real quick and easy way to understand the stratigraphy and understand some, some components of the basin you might not have thought about before. Jason:26:25Then we've been moving on with the basin temperature model is that the background into TOC models. So actually looking at total organic carbon within the same basin using the background of our basin temperature model and then working with core labs to really understand some of our vitrinite reflectance and core data points. So that's the new thing we're doing particularly in the Permian basin. Ted:26:48And I want to add another point on Lasser that Lasser acquisition, which was a, again, exciting for our team. Jason talked about the need for historical data. Sure. acquiring that data set. Now, the only way you could really replicate that public data is if you went to physically went to the individual railroad commission, district offices and loaded up a bunch of microfiche. So that data's digital. We've got it now. What's really neat is we're running it through our modern QA and QC processes. So adding data production volumes in Texas all the way back to the 30s, and then taking further, taking the lease level production data and allocating it to a well level. Nobody in industry is doing that right now from nobody from a vendor perspective. So that project that's ongoing and will be completed before the end of the year. Having historical production back to the 30s allocated to the well level, excited about that and proud of our team to get that done. Caroline:27:55Not to ask a silly question, but what is microfiche is that what you said? Ted:28:01I said microfiche, yeah. Jason:28:01You don't remember Microfiche? (Laughter) Caroline:28:02You're talking to a millennial. Jason:28:04I feel so old. Ted:28:06The point there is the data is not digital, it's manual, it's on microfilm. Microfiche it's lots and lots of hours of labor to recapture that data in database format. And now that we've got it, it's going to be real exciting. Jason:28:27My experience with microfiche was always in elementary school going to the library. So at the library they always had stacks of microfiche that had historical newspapers from the past and you can still find them and they're really, they're almost like little slides like you remember, do you remember what slides looked like? (Laughter) No, it's done. That's true. It's already 2020. [inaudible] There was a special microfiche reader to see them. And you flip through each one of them. But that's how they always documented historical papers. So we'd go back and have to do research projects and you'd have to go find your little microfiche from the library. And when you looked it up, you would slide through and it was like a little projector screen that read the fiche from like the little, little tiny film and scrolled through the little film. So it is almost like a negative Ted:29:17It's a picture of a document. So I'm not the only millennial in the room. So Katie, I'm gonna make a safe assumption that you did not know what that was? Katie:29:23Nope, no, I had no idea what that was, but I have seen it in movies. So thank you for that visual like connected the two for sure. Ted:29:31That's right. But that, that tells you how you know how- Caroline:29:37How hard to find it, how hard to find that data is. Ted:29:39That's right. There weren't computerized records back then, but we still need the data Caroline:29:44Absolutely. Katie:29:44So you've talked a lot about onshore, so do you offer the same kinds of products offshore as well or what do you, how does it go from onshore to offshore? Jason:29:58That's a good question, actually, because with TGS and with the amount of data that we have onshore as really dense area of log data per se, so we can do areas like the Permian, the Eagleford or the DJ basin and fill them in with 5,000 Wells and pick tops and all 5,000 of those Wells. And they all have temperature points. So we can do our base in temperature models there. Offshore, it gets a little bit more difficult because there are, the data's not so close together and offshore particularly say in the Gulf of Mexico, the geology gets a little more tricky, particularly with basin temperature models because you start dealing with more salt. You start dealing with just having the water to sediment differences that you'll- we understand pretty well, but the more well data you have, the more we can make those interpretive products. Jason:30:55So we have, sort of, different products offshore and like I mentioned before, we have the facies map browser is almost exclusively offshore because we can do that along mainly 2D lines, so long 2D lines that go over large areas and are- usually have a few wells connected to them in exploration areas. So the newest one of those is what we're trying to start now in Mexico and the Mexican side of the Gulf of Mexico where a few years ago we shot a really large 185,000 kilometer 2D survey called Gigante. So we interpreted that whole survey and we shot gravity and magnetics over it. So we actually have a gravity and magnetics model that we've built on that area that helps a lot in exploration, but we've also interpreted all the seismic to pick certain horizons. We would like to go a few steps further and actually understand your stratigraphic facies and your sequence stratigraphy that's in there. Jason:31:56And that's what we're, we're trying to do now with the Mexican side of the Gulf of Mexico. And it's a little bit easier there because there's less wells there and a lot of the operators that are moving in there since they opened up Mexico aren't there. So they don't have as big a knowledge base as they do in the U S Gulf of Mexico. And that big large knowledge base in the U S Gulf of Mexico from the operators that have been there for 40 or 50 years has really limited multi-client type interpretation studies. Because say the Exxons or the Shells or the Chevrons have been in these basins for so long, especially the Gulf of Mexico that they have the working knowledge of those basins and they train their employees on that pretty easily. So they don't necessarily need an outside company like TGS to sort of give them the boost or the the heads up or the, the first step to get into a basin. Jason:32:53Whereas in other basins around the world where we have facies, map browsers, we've had them for a while, we have new companies coming in and going more often. So they sort of like having that extra layer of knowledge that we can offer on shore. In the Gulf of Mexico though we did do a post-well analysis, which is just looking at specific wells and I think we have a little over a hundred now and they're either dry holes or or discoveries and they sort of show the stratigraphy they show why it was a dry hole or why was it a discovery. We match that up with seismic and certain areas so you can see the structures that were being drilled at the time. So we do have that. And then in the Mexico side of Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico, we have production data on both sides now. Jason:33:41So we actually have the contract with the Mexican government to provide not only the seismic but the well log data in Mexico, but also the production data in Mexico. On the U.S. Gulf, we have the contract to deliver log data. So companies that drill in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, they actually send their log data to TGS. We hold it for the 26 month timeframe. And then we clean that data up. We provide our LAS plus package. We provide that back to the BOEM or BSCE, the government entity that sort of controls the Gulf of Mexico. And then we also provide that to any other company that would like to purchase it. So we're the - TGS is actually, we've had that contract for a little over 10 years now and we've just renewed it this year. Katie:34:34So like how much coverage do you have in the Gulf of Mexico? Data-Wise. Jason:34:38Data-wise? So all of it really. So with the, with the recent acquisition of spectrum, we now have 2D coverage that extends all the way from Florida to the Rio Grande Valley really. So we have 2D coverage that covers, there are, TGS is a seismic company. Our core seismic area has always sort of been 3D seismic anyway, has always sort of been the Mississippi Canyon, DeSoto Canyon, Atwater Valley area. We have lots of 3D seismic. We're currently shooting seismic there. We'll just finished up some new nodal surveys there and doing reprocessing. But we have 2D and 3D coverage across the whole area and well data we have all of it. We have every well that's ever been drilled in the Gulf of Mexico. Ted:35:27On the production data song for Gulf of Mexico. The data's really, really nice from that perspective. I mean every well is reported oil, gas and water, monthly production. Well tests are extensive in the Gulf of Mexico. Perhaps the federal government does a better job of reporting well test data, making sure operators are testing those Wells annually and semiannually and getting that data out to public. So you also get access to certain pressure data in there, you know, flowing tubing pressure, bottomhole pressure, et cetera. So that data sets we like working with that. And now on the Mexico side, you know, we've got full coverage of Mexico petroleum industry. There's about 21,000 Wells with production in Mexico. About 1100 of those are offshore and we have captured and calculated monthly production for all of those Wells. So that was a fun project. Learning to translate certain wellheader attributes from Spanish to English that was fun to do. Converting units of measurement down there from a, you know, average daily rates to total monthly production. Bottom line is that data's now standardized in our library monthly oil and barrels in Mexico, monthly gas and MCF water in barrels. And,looking at the data, there are world-class wells in Mexico, so I think the continued release of data from Mexico. Hopefully we'll stay on track there with the, the government releasing data. Like I said, there's there's been some really gigantic flow rates down there, particularly offshore and no reason to think there's not great opportunity there. Seismic Katie:37:36Where's your seismic that you just shot in Mexico. Where does the location lies? Jason:37:40So the, the 2D seismic that's there, the original Gigante is all offshore and covers the entire Mexican Gulf of Mexico 2D. So it covers everything and it even goes sort of around the horn of the Yucatan near Belize. So it covers everything sort of almost into the Caribbean. We've also been doing looking at reprocessing efforts to extend some of our, to extend the seismic onshore to offshore and the Sureste and Tampico areas. And then we're also looking at 3D programs as well. Katie:38:15Very nice. Jason:38:16So there's quite a bit there. And that's not the only place that we have seismic or well log data. So TGS is actually always, I always try to remind me, we have well log data worldwide. So we have data. Do you know Russia and Africa and Australia and Malaysia all over Europe. And all over South America as well. And seismic too. I sort of focus on Western hemisphere so I know a little bit more about that part, but that's still quite a quite a large area sometime. And we're we're, we're looking at wells and seismic all across, both North and South American. Ted:38:53Don't forget Canada. Jason:38:55And Canada too, we have quite a bit of seismic in Canada as well. Caroline:39:00Nice. So one question I have for the table, we know that as TGS is predominantly a seismic company, but we also offer well data. How does that, how does that really help our clients when we offer two very different and unique datasets together? Jason:39:19I think the biggest part of that is making a complete geologic picture for explorationists. So you need the seismic to really sort of understand areas where we don't have well data and that well data really helps the seismic become better. One of the good examples of that is in some of our reprocessing efforts we're doing offshore, we're incorporating as much well data as we can, particularly Sonic data so that we can really understand the velocity models. And really make sure that we can tie those velocity models when they come out and with our seismic comes out in depth that our wells tie perfectly with them. The more well data we have, the better our seismic is going to be at the end of the day. We've always tied a few Wells that we can here and there, but since TGS has so much well data, it's a real benefit to our clients to be able to use that in the seismic processing and in reprocessing as more wells come out. Caroline:40:20So I'm just curious, you know, we are now offering a new product in the well data group. That's our analytics ready LAS that basically allows us to offer even more data. How do you feel about the machine learning algorithms that we're using in forecasting or with well logs? How do you feel about using that as geologists, Katie and Jason? Jason:40:42So one of the things that we've noticed quite a bit with this is you get a really nice big picture and particularly with analytics ready, we like to call it just ARLAS AR-LAS is that that big picture of that first presentation you can get, particularly when it comes to velocity models in Sonic where you don't have seismic. So one of the great images, and I don't know if I can explain this well through through radio, but one of the great images that you can have is with regular well data you have lots of lots of holes. So we didn't drill every place we could and then every place we drilled through time, we didn't do every log we could do. So a lot of the well logs that we have, particularly on onshore might have one or two curves. They might have a resistivity and a gamma ray or some of the older ones just might have an SP curve. Jason:41:32What can start doing with AR or the analytic ready Las is incorporate sort of Sonics into all of those logs and start understanding where we have those deviations in Sonic across the whole area where it hasn't been drilled. So from a big picture, it really helps you understand how that would tie together where you might want to drill next or what might, what interesting features you wouldn't see where a well isn't drilled without having seismic. And if you have seismic then you can tie them both together as well to kind of have a better understanding of of your depth processing. Ted:42:13And I might add onto that AI question back on the production forecasting a challenge. So we're offering both methodologies now of course we have our, you know, our traditional hyperbolic curve fit type forecasting algorithms that work well and offering the physics based you know, probabilistic spread forecasting new. Your question is how do we think about that? It's like, how does the industry think about that? I know everybody's talking about it. Everyone's trying to figure it out. To me, getting a million forecast in a couple of seconds is impressive. Right? And getting that full spread on each, well a P 10 through a P 99 forecast right at your fingertips. It's powerful stuff. Caroline:43:07Yeah. I'd be really curious to see where machine learning and artificial intelligence takes TGS in the future with other types of derivative products that we end up discovering and producing and really making sure that we're getting these to the industry to reduce cycle time. So I think that's pretty cool. Jason:43:22Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think we're, we're already moving in that direction with filling in log curves and in the seismic side trying to understand different seismic bodies. So using machine learning and AI to serve as a tool to understand where salt is in a quicker, more timely fashion or to even start understanding easier ways to define horizons or define some amplitude attributes as well. Jason:43:49[To Katie] So you've seen our data and played with our data and hopefully in the future is you're, you know, experiencing your geology career, you'll get to use it much more. Ted:44:01I think she's just scratched the surface with our data, right. I know all that data. Jason:44:06You had the unique opportunity to use it to come into our -come into the company and see what it was like to have that much data at your fingertips. Can you tell us a little bit about how, what that was like and how, how that's different from then to school to now that you're, you're in the industry. Katie:44:24So I came into TGS knowing nothing, well, not knowing nothing, but you know, minimal. You think you, every time you start somewhere you like think you know something, but you really don't, which I've learned again third time. Ted:44:37Right? Katie:44:37So at TGS, I wouldn't say it was just, I learned how to work with all this data, which was overwhelming at first. It was like I learned how to, I don't know, act, not just like socially in an office, right? But I also learned like what's important, what's not important. It's easy to get bogged down in the details when you go from zero to 100 real quick. Caroline:45:03So you've really had a unique perspective. Especially compared to a lot of us at TGS, you started off in an internship with us getting into the data and learning the data, applying the data. Right. And then I believe maybe you've even used it in your thesis. Katie:45:20Right. Caroline:45:20And now that you're in the industry, what has that looked like for you? Ted:45:26How about, how about how do you access data being an industry now? Katie:45:31When I've looked at data, it tells me, it makes me feel comfortable. It clears up uncertainties.. It's not telling me what's going on, but at least I'd like have more of a general idea. So when I look at these large amounts of data that I get for a project, let's say like I did in grad school, it's okay, I have this data. What does the data tell me? Does it tell me if it's pinching out? Does it tell me if it's, you know, this big chunk or maybe the depositional environment. That's what I looked at a lot in well logs the petrophysics. Jason:46:08No, it's understandable. You get thrown a lot of data in these situations and it's how you put that together, how you can efficiently use it. And that's something that we're always trying to make easier for people. It helps in a lot of situations, particularly in, in super major type of companies or in a lot of different companies, even smaller companies that they have geo techs that efficiently use our data before they give it to you. Right? So a lot of times you never, you'll never get to see the first part of, you know, where did this data come from because it all just ends up on your desktop. Right? Katie:46:42Right. So like I, what I liked about my experience I guess at TGS is I saw the beginnings, right? What a geotech would put it in. So I like got to see that visual fresh or put my own spin on it when we were using Longbow. So making those bubble plots or looking at URs and decline curves. I don't have, I don't, I haven't gotten that experience yet, but I'm a Guppy. Caroline:47:10So it was like you were getting access to data sets such as the, you know, the EURs and the forecasting database that you probably didn't necessarily have access to while you were working on your masters. Katie:47:21Right. And didn't know about until it came to TGS. Ted:47:26And the ability to build that project from scratch. I imagine a lot of times now in industry, you walk in and sit down and there are gigantic projects already existing and workflows established as opposed to like starting at the beginning. Katie:47:46Right. Which is overwhelming. Like I remember Jason was like, Hey, y'all are going to map from Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. That was very overwhelming. Now I just, you know, you get a project and it, someone's already, most of the time, I don't know picked through it. So you don't, it's not very fresh. Jason:48:09But now you're not afraid of the deep end of the pool. Katie:48:10I don't know about that... Jason:48:10Right. We threw you right in the deep end and I, you can swim. You're ready to go. Katie:48:18Oh no. I'm still learning. Jason:48:18Well that's good. Never wanna stop learning. Ted:48:22We're all still learning. Katie:48:22Right. But I'm really still learning. As a new worker bee. Jason:48:30So Katie, is there anything we haven't seen you in a little while? I know that you're, you're in Louisiana now. Is there anything that you want to ask us that you're interested in from a, from your perspective after you've graduated and are now moving onto bigger and better things that might help you in the future? Katie:48:48Maybe not something that would- maybe wouldn't help me in the future, but also help other people that are looking for jobs. Is, are y'all looking for employment? Like looking to employ anyone or what does that look like? It sounds like you're doing a lot of work. So do you have people to fill these positions or are you, how does that go for y'all? Do you even know? Jason:49:10Well, that's one of those great HR questions where, you know, we're always, we're always just busy enough to need new people. (Laughter) Caroline:49:20And I think with, you know, new departments that were growing especially new datasets like Ted is talking about Mexico and Canada, I feel like it really helps to position us to grow, you know, as a company as a whole. So opportunities are always always coming up. Yeah. Jason:49:36I know particularly with our internship program, we're always looking for, you know, young, exciting new talent that can, that can come in and help us out. But also like you did learn about data from sort of the bottom up and take that knowledge base to other companies. So we don't only like training people to come and stay with us or we're perfectly happy bringing in interns and having them go out in the world and and learn something from us that they can bring somewhere else. Katie:50:06Oh sorry. I would say that that's why I like had not, I think that working at TGS was nice for others to see cause they knew that I had experience I guess with production data, which is a cool talking point I think. Caroline:50:22And just to build off of that, Ted has done a really great job building this new initiative, which is getting our well performance data in the universities to work with people like you, Katie, while you were getting your masters to make sure that we're able to provide data to other other programs and get geologists or young geologists access to data sets that they wouldn't have or wouldn't be familiar with whenever they're entering the workforce. Ted:50:48That's right. So, you know, we're happy to donate donate our products, donate production data and Longbow to the universities. As you know, at ULL they brought it into the geoscience and engineering groups. And now we're sitting on the, what the 20 workstations in the lab and part of the curriculum. So it's exciting at the same time, giving the students access to these data products learning actual, you know, working product tools. When they do get hired and hit the, hit the workforce, they're ahead of the game and ready to go. Now, from my selfish perspective, it helps to get feedback and make the products better. So it's a win win for both. Caroline:51:37Well, thanks everyone for coming out today and having this conversation, you know, hanging out, covering a lot of really awesome topics, kind of, you know, exploring where TGS is headed next, where we've been, where we're going. Katie, you know, especially thanks to you for coming all the way from New Orleans to sit with us and kind of give us your insight and your opinions and let us know how it's, how the journey has been for you. So thanks, Jason. Thanks Ted looking forward to the next, the next episode. Katie:52:01Thank you for having me. Jason:52:03Yeah, thanks Katie, it's been great Ted:52:04Thank you.
In this episode of Beneath the Subsurface we're focusing on Latin America and how the recent Spectrum acquisition has enriched and expanded TGS' data library. Erica interviews Richie Miller and David Hajovsky, our experts in this prolific region. We'll explore the hottest regions in the South Atlantic margin as well as the bidding climate in Brazil and the path forward for data and technology investments. TABLE OF CONTENTS00:00 - Intro01:20 - Geopolitical Climate in Mexico, Argentina, Brazil07:12 - Frontier Activity in Latin America10:28 - G&G Technology Applications12:22 - Equatorial Margins15:02 - Investments in the Region16:47 - Brazil Bid & Licensing Rounds19:58 - Identifying Leads23:54 - Data, Beyond Seismic - Geological and Geochemical26:38 - Old Technology, New Applications, New Techniques30:00 - Predicting New Plays34:27 - Conclusion EXPLORE MORE FROM THE EPISODELearn more about TGS in Latin AmericaSantos Basin Project ExpansionBrazil Multibeam and Seep Study Project EPISODE TRANSCRIPTErica Conedera:00:00Hello and welcome to Beneath the Subsurface a podcast that explores the intersection of geo science and technology. From the software development department here at TGS, I'm your host, Erica Conedera. This episode we're focusing on Latin America and how the recent Spectrum acquisition has enriched and expanded TGS' data library. As you'll hear, Spectrum brings not only a strategic library of seismic data, but also a team of proven and qualified experts in Latin America. We'll explore the hottest regions in the South Atlantic margin as well as the bidding climate in Brazil and the path forward for data and technology investments. I'm really excited today to be in the studio with Richie Miller. He ran things in Latin America for Spectrum and David Hajovsky, our VP of Latin America. So we're here today to talk about how the spectrum acquisition is adding value to our library of data in the Latin America region. So to start off Latin-America is a huge region. There's plenty of geographic diversity there. What are some of the hallmarks of the industry in this region? David Hajovsky:01:20Yeah, well, I think first off, I guess, thanks for having us on here. It's a pleasure to sit here and kinda talk about something that I know Richie and I have both been working on for for a number of years now. I think for me, when I look at Latin America one of the big pieces is the kind of geopolitical ups and downs. You see where markets open markets close and it makes it complicating and interesting when it comes to trying to find the right way to invest there. I think a good example of that is Mexico. It's a market that had been closed off to foreign investment for over 70 years. And during the energy reform, it opened up and you had a lot of multi-client activity both from a spectrum and TGS. And now under the new administration you're seeing things take a turn in the other direction. So it's, it's interesting to kind of see how these things evolve and go and how it makes us manage and be very insightful about our business and how we make our decisions. Richie Miller:02:21And I think we're still real positive on Mexico. It's a huge footprint and the government's indicating they, over the next couple of years, they may move forward again. Like industry wants, it's a great opportunity there. And, we're, we're in a great position. David Hajovsky:02:37Yeah. And I think when you look in Mexico as an example on that, we're still seeing, despite some of the political rhetoric, when, when a more nationalist government gets in office, the exploration that's currently moving forward is still moving forward. You're still having seismic shot, you're still having wells get drilled. So that momentum is still carrying through. And, and that's the thing about our business. It's a long term business. So everything there, we typically ride out all political cycles. So it's just a matter of timing on how that happens. Richie Miller:03:07Yeah. And it's even longer for the, for our customers in the E&P world, they, they look at, at, at decades where we seem to be tied into a four to six, eight year cycle similar to Argentina. I mean, in Mexico, we have an election coming up in Argentina. But the talk to the, our customers, there's not a big concern. We may see a government flip there but it's longterm we're positioned for it. And I think it'll work out just fine. David Hajovsky:03:37Yeah, I think that brings up a, I mean we were both down in Buenos Aires for the ABG international conference. It's a conference of petroleum geologists and certainly I would think we both agree the, the views and the rhetoric coming from all the oil companies there who are our clients was very favorable, very positive on kind of longer term investment outlook. So this makes us feel optimistic about the region. And then just the business in general. Richie Miller:04:03Yeah, that's- and companies like Shell and Chevron, et cetera. They've been in country for quite a long time when there was a different government in place and different price controls. They're the same companies that came in and picked up blocks offshore. Not Chevron, but Shell was pretty aggressive. Yup. Erica Conedera:04:22What do you see happening with round two in Argentina? Richie Miller:04:25A round two is, is pretty exciting. So we have an election coming up. First elections actually late October. The way that's gonna work. If no one gets a majority, then there'll be a runoff in November. We understand from the government that they're going to announce this round the first week of November to open up in April and close in October. That works out real well for us because it hits this budget year cycle for our customers that are looking for some end of year deals. We've had the data that we'll be ready in February that's going to be in the Colorado basin that will be on that round. After the first round, we've seen more interest from, from industry that have come in and, and picked up some data. We even with the uncertainty in the election, we think round two is going to be a bigger, a bigger deal than round one, which was obviously a huge deal for the Argentinian government. David Hajovsky:05:22I think it's one of the things that it's an observation we have, that on that initial round. A lot of the players that end up participating are companies that have some sort of presence in Argentina already. You have a few new players that come in from the international space. But once you get that hub and you have some of that acreage, it makes the investment point that much lower. So as you move into around two companies that already have an established position are able to be more aggressive as they go forward. And because of the success of round one, we're also introducing more international applicants coming into to attract it. So it kind of builds up on itself, builds a scale that we need. And I think that kind of goes to a lot of the rationale behind the, the merger between Spectrum and TGS is prior to this, TGS would not have had the same type of conversations or the same position. But Spectrum has done a fantastic job of understanding the above ground environment and understanding the below ground potential and moving on that and allowing us to, to now work together and try to build a, a better position. Richie Miller:06:21What the ministry has indicated is they've put sectors out that cover the Colorado basin, the deep water area of a Southern area of Argentina as well as the ultra deep of the Northern and Southern parts of Argentina. So they've asked for the E&P business or industry to nominate specific areas. And a real positive thing for TGS is we've got that area completely covered with new data. It's really the only data that's out there to, to help with this round. It's just in this round. So they've also asked us to do some of our G&G work and, and nominate areas based on what we think is prospective. The good thing about our businesses is everybody has a different idea on prospectivity and that's why we see different companies bidding on different areas. And that works well for us. Erica Conedera:07:12So looking at other countries in the region, certainly Brazil has had a lot of activity, but what other countries do you guys have eyes on right now? David Hajovsky:07:18Well, I mean, a big piece of the market for, for both Brazil- I mean for TGS and Spectrum was Brazil, Argentina and Mexico. These are the big kind of established markets where you have a lot of investment already from our client's side and kind of justifies us being there in that way. We're always looking and screening all the other potentials that could be there. You can go down the list. I mean, what we're seeing right now, offshore Guyana where Exxon and now Tullow have had just a string of discoveries. It's really opening up new ideas and play concepts, not just for Guyana but along the entirety of the margin. And so I think that's, those are sayings that we watch out for in, from a business development point of view and try to understand how can that concept be an analog somewhere else that we're maybe not currently working or are currently working and trying to build up a new narrative to attract industry. Richie Miller:08:14Yeah, there's a, I think Apache's just spudding a well in Surinam, and it's right next door. So hopefully that will, will lead to more success for that that basin. There is a data footprint for the companies for TGS in Barbados and Trinidad. And we understand BHP moving forward with a potential well in Barbados. That's not been confirmed yet, but that's, that's positive at different play type. But there's always the thought that maybe the, the Cretaceous wonder basin underneath Guyana extends underneath Trinidad and Barbados. So there's a lot of activity and looking around in that, in that region right now it's pretty active. David Hajovsky:08:55And when you say, I mean, that's, that's to me been a key insight into the business and in my short time in the business is that new data opens up new ideas, new concepts. A lot of these places have had acquisition or seismic acquisition for 30, 40 years. And it's when you come in with new technologies and new ways of, of trying to acquire this that you can get different concepts and ideas that come out of that and that, that starts the whole new process of, okay, next round of exploration. Here we go. Richie Miller:09:26And that's really true for Trinidad, that there was a lot of MC activity in the 90s and early two thousands, and it's just been dead. Now there's they're L&G outputs going down there looking for new exploration. So there's opportunities and it could be reprocessing, et cetera. But you're starting to see more companies BHP, BP, Shell, all drilling new Wells to try to increase that gas production there. You know, gas is our future. So it's, it's Trinidad's working towards that. David Hajovsky:10:02Yeah. Especially areas like Trinidad where you have a a hundred plus years of production in place, you have a lot of legacy infrastructure. So the cost to get that to a economic point is much lower than being in a ranked frontier area for something like that. And it's for that reason that you do is, as Richie mentioned there, these companies will continue to invest in and explore there. Richie Miller:10:22Yeah. And Barbados is a great place to go visit for oil and gas. So David Hajovsky:10:26Yeah, I can imagine. Well, if got your Barbadian shirt on. Erica Conedera:10:28So you had mentioned, using other G&G technologies in the region. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What exactly we're using? What's exciting to you? David Hajovsky:10:39Yeah, so a lot of we tried to think about, and we, we interact a lot with our clients, try and understand what are the tools that they need or what are the types of data they need in order to de-risk these positions and decisions. And, you know, historically 2D seismic is your, is your frontier tool. You go in, can acquire regional grid at a relatively economic basis. It allows for large screening and then you'd move on to 3D seismic to go beyond that. But I think TGS, in recent years we've taken an approach of looking and introducing different technologies. So for example, we've been working with multi-beam and coring data to try to build a larger geochemical database. So we have the geophysical database and now we're building up the geochemical database and you integrate that data in and you're able to update your geologic model. And these are the sorts of tools that, that explorers who are our clients can then utilize to better de-risk their position in decisions. Richie Miller:11:37Yeah. One of the I think both companies (TGS & Spectrum) or one company now, that we is, how do we generate derivative products to generate additional revenues off of these, you know, some of the legacy surveys. And I know that a, we were working on some different potential fields, products in Latin America. It's still trying to get traction with, with these, E&Ps or some exploration products. The, you know, then you add in the multibeam products and things like that. It's really what do the customers need and what will they pay for. And, and we're starting to get, go down that path to find out what's gonna work and what won't work. Erica Conedera:12:22So David, you had mentioned Guyana and activity in Brazil. Can we go back to that a little bit? David Hajovsky:12:27Yeah, I think in part of what we see when, when all companies are having the type of success they're having in Guyana and testing play concepts successfully in testing new concepts, we didn't think about where those analogs might be. And I think one of the areas that we think has a lot of untapped potential is equatorial margin Brazil. So we were just going further down the coastline really. And, and one of the issues we have is you've had some very successful license rounds up there. You've had some seismic shot and certainly one of our plans is to continue to invest on a geophysical data because we feel it's needed, but we need to see some drilling activity. And that's been one of the slowdowns in the ability for the Brazil equatorial margin and truly get unlocked is from a permitting point of view, regulatory point of view. It's been very slow process to get Wells permitted and then drilled. Richie Miller:13:21Yeah. That too. To move to the next phase we need wells drilled in an equatorial margins. We've been working with the government on that. The government knows that the oil and gas companies and our customers are working towards that. We understand that a, there's, there's two, two big permits that the industry is watching. It's a BP permit and a Total permit. And, in the Amazonous region, we understand those permits are very close. We anticipate seeing a well drilled there next year sometime. Well let's hope that moves forward. Those leases were granted in 2013 so they should be onto the second phase of their exploration period, which then they ended up dropping some of that acreage, which spurs our activity in sales in the, in the data there we own that area of, of Brazil from French Guyana around the corner to Potiguar. Richie Miller:14:15And I think we've only seen seen two or three Wells drilled since that round. And there's been a couple of rounds since then. There was 14 or 15 with some scattering of acreage. But to really take advantage, Brazil needs to get these Wells drilled and, and they know it. They, there's a very large push within the government. You know, it's a relatively new government administration and, and they have license rounds that are scheduled out through 2021. We'll see a lot of acreage taken. But again, I go back to, we have to have Wells drilled and that's what part of our, our whole strategy in Brazil with the, with the team we have working there is to work on the political side as well. Erica Conedera:15:02So from what I'm hearing, you're not seeing a lot of investment in the region. How does that impact your own investment in the area? Richie Miller:15:10Well, there actually is a, some investment from TGS coming up in the equatorial margins. The, the pioneer, which is a, a BGP vessel that's worked for us for quite some time. It will be mobilizing into the Para-Manhao area of Brazil in early November. And we're going to acquire about 10,000 kilometers. It's an infill program of one of the Fugro surveys we've picked up. We're starting to see movement in our in our client base on, in that area. And it's a sector and round 17 is right in the middle of it. So we'll, we'll acquire this survey. We'll have it processed to be available in probably April of next year. So it is a continued investment. It's also an area that, that we see some lookalikes to the Guyana plays the Ranger and, and also Liza discoveries. It's pretty exciting that that Brazil can can have instead of the salt basins that, that is very prolific as we, we, we see the opportunity for a whole new oil and gas province to open up. What about a consultant named Pedro Zalan it's been doing quite a bit of work up there and he's he's working on a new area there right now that we will be presenting at an exploration seminar that, that we have scheduled for November 7th here for our new venture customers. So we'll during that seminar we'll be showcasing really an Atlantic Margin portfolio of projects and and he'll be speaking at that. Erica Conedera:16:47So you guys mentioned bid rounds in Brazil. Can you explain how these bid rounds work for those of us who are not in the know such as myself? David Hajovsky:16:54Yeah. So so Brazil's a, an interesting place. They actually have a number of different types of, of contracts that they offer up in these bid rounds. So they have what they call concession licensed rounds. So these are areas that are outside of the, the salt basins. Back in 2010, Brazil, after having some of these massive pre-salt discoveries, the government made a decision to kind of hive off an area that they call the pre-salt polygon. And within that area, a new acreage opportunities were kind of pushed to the side and for the time being, and outside of that is where you could get acreage if you're an outside investor starting in 20, well, they've, they've gone through a multitude of different things. But starting in 2017 there had been a hiatus on rounds and Brazil brought them back in a big way. So the concession license round means an oil company enters into a concession contract where you just pay a royalty fee. Inside of the pre-salt polygon, they offer up what they're called production sharing agreements. And so what companies are actually bidding on is profit oil that they would pay to the government. So as they move into production, they agree to pay X percentage to the government as a result. So it's just different mechanisms by which the government is able to recoup some of their, their resource or, or monetizing their resource. I should, I should say. David Hajovsky:18:16And Brazil is also introduced to a new thing called the open door policy. So open round and effectively like a lot of open door policies, companies can come in, review the data and we have some of this data that we're reworking right now to try and promote that. But then they would put an offer on a block on a given set of minimum. And then if nobody counter bids and they're able to take that acreage. And what this does by having these very different round mechanisms out there, you have a multitude of, of companies and players that come there. So for the pre-salt rounds, which are the production sharing contracts, you tend to have a very large IOC. So the international oil companies some of the larger national oil companies because these are very capital intensive investments. You need to have a big balance sheet and a big portfolio enabled to do that. On the concession rounds you'll see the same mix of players, but you also introduce some of the more independent companies, so a little bit smaller and more exploration focused and they're able to get some of the, the acreage that's away from the salt basins. David Hajovsky:19:17So a little bit lower value point in terms of getting acreage access and if they're able to work that up and do it in a way that is accretive to their portfolio. And with the open door policy, I think Brazil is really trying to push to even another tier of players to bring smaller companies, both local Brazilian companies and international companies to help diversify the mix of, of players that you have in the place. And so for a company like ourselves, we try to provide data that's going to target all, all three of these. And having a larger client mix is always a good thing. It allows us to take more risk and allows us to feel comfortable with taking that risk because there's more need for the data products that we create. Richie Miller:19:58It's encouraging that we're seeing a new entrance into Brazil. And just recently within the last quarter, we've seen, two new companies come into license data that, that are currently not players in Brazil that is very positive compared to some other other areas in the world. But they're looking for these smaller opportunities, like David said, on the, these permanent round blocks. And we have every permanent round block is covered by some sort of TGS data, legacy data, some of the new data that, that we've acquired. And extremely positive. They, they're coming to us. There's nowhere else to go to right now. We're working in this data where we have a G&G group in the Houston office here and also over in Woking that that help with identifying leads on this data that help us push out to clients. So traditional way of just selling the data in a line by line basis based on the line quality, the data quality, we're taking that a step forward and, and developing leads by a group of explorationists. These are people that have worked with oil and gas companies understand what oil and gas companies are looking for. And that's what we're being, we're, that's what we're pushing out to market right now. David Hajovsky:21:14And I think one of the interesting things that we see on that front historically for these sort of G & G value add products the, the client mix for that are tend to not be the super major clients. They have their own internal staff that will work and do that. It's kind of into their, their value point. But it's typically made for companies, smaller companies that may not have the resource for that sort of staffing or certainly some of the national oil companies who like to have different viewpoints and perspectives. But I think what we see now in today's world, even the super major clients see value in what we're providing there. And I think a lot of that is kind of based on the quality of, of the, the staff we have and the work effort that's being put there. So it's a, it's certainly helped us to better understand what our client needs are and the way they're kind of thinking about problems and allowing us to better address those problems in a way. Richie Miller:22:06Yeah. And I, I think it's, it's also on the investment side. We're, we're saying new ideas based on, on the data that's been interpreted that helps us develop more programs and, and make those investments that we have planned over the next few years in Brazil. And Brazil is open for business and we're going to hit it in a, in a big way. We speaking to the rounds on round 17 we've just completed a, a Potiguar 3D survey. It's about 10,000 kilometers and there's, in round 17, which will be next year. There's about 4,000 kilometers of that. That's over open acreage that we're seeing companies that are, they're interested in that. It's, it's gonna provide that, that opportunity for the industry really, and we're not seeing that much in Brazil, but they're going to have 3D prior to the rounds. Versus the, just the 2D portfolio. David Hajovsky:22:59Yeah, I think that was one of the things that that we've tried to do is, I mean, as a, as a geophysical contractor, we want to make sure we can provide the best quality data ahead of a round and for this upcoming round 16, which is less than two weeks away at this stage we were able to get out there and get 3D data ahead of the round for both Campos Basin and the Santos Basin. And these are proven to be very well received by industry. These are the type of products that helps them de-risk major decisions, I mean, when we talk about Campos basin, one of the blocks that's on offer there, the minimum signature bonus. So this is what an oil company is going to be obligated to pay at a bare minimum is $350 million for one block. And so to have the seismic that's going to de-risk that structure and allow them to better understand what the real potential is there, it's a, it's a huge benefit. So we're, we're happy to be able to provide that. Erica Conedera:23:54So you had talked about the different G&G data products that we're offering aside from the 2D and 3D seismic, can you talk a little bit about what else? David Hajovsky:24:05Yeah, so we, we've been offering we've touched on some of the derivatives that you receive off of the 2D and 3D. So work effort that happens beyond that, can be something as simple as an interpretation, can be different kind of attribute work, different sort of packages that we can customize for whatever the client needs are, integrating different data types. So TGS, I mean, obviously the, the Wells business is a huge piece for us. So this is where we would go into a given country, get access to their well database. A lot of times this data is very old. It's very spotty. It needs a lot of cleanup. So we've kind of honed that process down where we're able to take these well logs cleaned them up, make them interpretable, integrate them into packages that our clients are able to access. David Hajovsky:24:56On the geochemical side, we've been doing a lot of work effort with these large scale multi-beam projects. As an example in Mexico, when that market opened up, we acquired a multi-beam over 600,000 square kilometers of offshore Mexico. So effectively covering everything and utilizing that data, we're then able to high grade a coring location. So piston course something that oil companies have done from for a very long time, for 50 plus years. But by using this technology of the high res multibeam data, we're able to better high-grade where to take these cores. They'll find the right sort of areas to, to try to find hydrocarbon samples on the sea floor. And, and what we found is a very high success rate there. And you're able to correlate that back. And so for oil companies, when they're trying to do their, their basin modeling and understand where they need to be thinking about these are the types of data sets they can integrate in with our regional seismic or 3D seismic and better de-risk the play. Richie Miller:25:55No, it's, it's what, what do our customers need and that that was one of the items in a multibeam that came back and, and it's, it's working with our core key customers to understand what they need and what else we can provide. And the industry is changing that way and it's real positively. You put the two companies together, there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of geographic space to, to put together products. Erica Conedera:26:22In our last episode, we actually talked about multi beam, so we had a whole episode on that. David Hajovsky:26:26Good. Well then they've dove, they know a lot more about it than than I do, which is which is a good thing cause then they can go focus on that. Richie Miller:26:34Yeah. When I listened to it, I learned a lot more about multibeam. David Hajovsky:26:38No, but I think it's a, one of the things is it's taking old technologies and applying them in a new way. It's just like reprocessing data, which is a big part of our, our businesses. When you have legacy data, so data that might've been acquired in the 90s in the 1980s even more recent vintages, a lot of times the, the processing flow and the algorithms that were used to try to create an image were, were very antiquated either by a limitation on compute or for just the limitation in the code. But even taking legacy data and applying today's technology on it, we're able to see significant uplift. And, and a lot of times we'll go and capture that data and try to uplift that data to help compliment in what we're doing from a new data acquisition point of view. And it helps us better set the parameters on this new acquisition to ensure that geophysically, we're going to address the geologic problems in that area. Richie Miller:27:32Yeah. Imaging technology is, is we try to keep up with it on with the acquisition is not changing a lot, but imaging technology changes day to day. It's it's really breakthrough technology that's coming through and helping the E&Ps discover more resources and, and it's a big part of TGS is moving that imaging into the next the next phase. David Hajovsky:28:00And I think we've seen in, you know, you can take data sets that were acquired five years ago and, and processed with the latest and greatest five years ago and applying the technologies today. And we'll talk specifically about technologies like full wave form inversion to help better resolve the velocity field and you'll see a significant upgrade in that image quality. It's probably tantamount to the photo quality I have on my iPhone 11 compared to on my original, you know, iPhone three. If they even had that name back then, I mean, it's it's incredible resolution and detail and it's those sort of upgrades and insights that allow people to think about different plays and different concepts in ways that we need to be moving the needle. Richie Miller:28:48It's a big part of our business is we have to have refresh data ready when the opportunity arises, whether it's a discovery well there's a discovery that spurs is a, is a good tar trigger on, on, on sales of data. And then for license round, sometimes they surprise us some of these governments. And if we don't have that, the data ready and it's been reprocessed with the latest technology we may miss. So it's our job to identify what we think will, will the be, the surveys that we need to upgrade. Yeah. David Hajovsky:29:22Yeah. I think it's a, when you, when you mentioned that thing about the licensed rounds gets sprung upon us, it's Brazil for this round 16 that's upcoming here in two weeks time. When we were talking about trying to get 3D data ahead of the round that was certainly one of the big challenges we had was how can we, under this limited time frame and the way that this round has been earmarked, how can we get out there with a vessel, acquire the data, process the data, get a workable product to the client base. And it puts a lot of pressure on us to come up with creative solutions. But I think in most of these instances we've been able to luckily enough, stay ahead. Erica Conedera:30:00So it sounds like one of the challenges is predicting where the next big play is going to be. What about the Santos Campos? Richie Miller:30:08Well, I think, you know, that's a great question because back geez, it's been two years ago now, we, we made, we took the risk to move offshore into the outside the BEZ or the Brazilian economic zone which was out at that point. It still is at 200 miles. We started acquiring a survey and with TGS we, we partnered saw the opportunity and it's a new play, very similar to what's inbound on, on Santos. But some of the, some of the data we're seeing already and some of the experts that are working that they think it can be just as big as what's already been discovered in the Santos Basin. And so we're, we're talking 30 to 50 billion barrels. It's a big number to, to even throw out there because people will disagree with you. But we've, we've made an investment already. We've acquired 7,000 kilometers, 8,000 kilometers. We're going to go ahead and pick up the rest of that later this year. It's a big risk. But I think there's a very big reward for TGS and, and also our customers cause we're going to provide that data 3D data instead of 2D data before the rounds. And we're hearing that, that, EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone). The rounds good chance there'll be offered in and round 18, which will be in 2021, which gives us a good time to plenty of time to get the data processed and out and for the customers to interpret it and have it ready for the round. David Hajovsky:31:49Yeah. And I, and I think that, you know, it, it is true. It is risk, but I think it's calculated risk. I mean, when just talking about the, the UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) process. So this is the process by which a company can extend out their current exclusive economic zone. Brazil was the second country to apply for that back in 2004. So these things take time. But certainly I think what we saw as we looked at that area is there's great momentum. The government realizes there's good resource potential there. Technically it makes sense to extend this out. And you're getting all the right stakeholders in place, both with the UN with the Navy, with A and P with the government to, to see this move forward. And so, yes, it was a risk. It was a calculated risk. But I think it's the, certainly gonna prove to be the right decision where I've seen that I think kind of payout in itself Richie Miller:32:41That, yeah, that's right. That we and Argentina, they've, they've been granted the rights and Uruguay has been granted the rights. There's a few little areas in Brazil they're still working on in New York. You know, ironically Pedro Zalan on who we we mentioned earlier is working with the UN and the Brazilian government on that. Our country manager draw credit has been very involved in this whole process with the couple of the universities. We're, we're the only ones that have data that, that show the prospectivity outside the 200 miles. And we're using that and, helping the government move forward and we expect some very big results not only out of the expiration but also out of for TGS on the, on the data sales. David Hajovsky:33:26Yeah. And I think that this is the, this is part of the positioning, right? Is that we want to be viewed as allies to the governments and we're trying to help them promote their areas as we're trying to help our clients promote their own interests. And so it becomes a mutually beneficial relationship among all three. And so this has been the key strategy for, for TGS and Spectrum, and now we're bringing those strengths together. Richie Miller:33:52Yeah. Yeah. We, it's a footprint that we're putting together that with, when all said and done, we'll probably end up with about 40 to 50,000 square kilometers that's continuous. It's it's a must be basin. We have to be in Santos and Campos similar to some of the large basins and, and in the U S a on shore with the sale markets. They're the hottest basins in the world right now. And TGS is in, in all of them. David Hajovsky:34:20Yeah. We hope to continue that and I don't see any reason why we won't be able to keep moving that ball forward. Erica Conedera:34:27Well guys, it sounds like a, you have a lot of work ahead of you and we're definitely very excited about the value that the spectrum acquisition has added to our data libraries. So very glad you guys could be with us today. Richie Miller:34:39I appreciate it. It was it's going to be a fun group to work with. The the, there was a lot of success with this library, you know, not only in Latin America but in Africa and other areas of the world that, that we've added to. But it was, it's a top down approach that you know, the support, getting the financing to do some of these projects, the processing groups the finance groups, you got to invoice this. Everybody's touching it. Everybody in the office, the, you've got the, the it groups and the computer centers. It's, everybody's working on this together and it made it successful. So it's it's now to capitalize on the opportunities moving forward. David Hajovsky:35:18Yeah, and I think that it's a, it's a huge benefit to TGS to be bringing in this, this established Spectrum team. I mean, these guys have proven track record and we're creating, I think one of the strongest teams in industry. I think we could be Dallas Cowboys-like probably mid nineties Cowboys on that Superbowl run, I think is probably where we'll end up being. We'll see what happens this year. Erica Conedera:35:43All right. Thanks guys.
Day 27: Joel 2:25-2625And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.26And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.40daysofsts.com
Day 21: Gen 4: 26And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.40daysofsts.com
Luke 23 1Then the whole company of them arose and brought him before Pilate. 2And they began to accuse him, saying, “We found this man misleading our nation and forbidding us to give tribute to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king.” 3And Pilate asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” And he answered him, “You have said so.” 4Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man.” 5But they were urgent, saying, “He stirs up the people, teaching throughout all Judea, from Galilee even to this place.” 6When Pilate heard this, he asked whether the man was a Galilean. 7And when he learned that he belonged to Herod’s jurisdiction, he sent him over to Herod, who was himself in Jerusalem at that time. 8When Herod saw Jesus, he was very glad, for he had long desired to see him, because he had heard about him, and he was hoping to see some sign done by him. 9So he questioned him at some length, but he made no answer. 10The chief priests and the scribes stood by, vehemently accusing him. 11And Herod with his soldiers treated him with contempt and mocked him. Then, arraying him in splendid clothing, he sent him back to Pilate. 12And Herod and Pilate became friends with each other that very day, for before this they had been at enmity with each other. 13Pilate then called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, 14and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was misleading the people. And after examining him before you, behold, I did not find this man guilty of any of your charges against him. 15Neither did Herod, for he sent him back to us. Look, nothing deserving death has been done by him. 16I will therefore punish and release him.” 18But they all cried out together, “Away with this man, and release to us Barabbas”— 19a man who had been thrown into prison for an insurrection started in the city and for murder. 20Pilate addressed them once more, desiring to release Jesus, 21but they kept shouting, “Crucify, crucify him!” 22A third time he said to them, “Why, what evil has he done? I have found in him no guilt deserving death. I will therefore punish and release him.” 23But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed. 24So Pilate decided that their demand should be granted. 25He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, for whom they asked, but he delivered Jesus over to their will. 26And as they led him away, they seized one Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and laid on him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus. 27And there followed him a great multitude of the people and of women who were mourning and lamenting for him. 28But turning to them Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ 31For if they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?” 32Two others, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with him. 33And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him, and the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. 34And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments. 35And the people stood by, watching, but the rulers scoffed at him, saying, “He saved others; let him save himself, if he is the Christ of God, his Chosen One!” 36The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” 38There was also an inscription over him, “This is the King of the Jews.” 39One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” 44It was now about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45while the sun’s light failed. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two. 46Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last. 47Now when the centurion saw what had taken place, he praised God, saying, “Certainly this man was innocent!” 48And all the crowds that had assembled for this spectacle, when they saw what had taken place, returned home beating their breasts. 49And all his acquaintances and the women who had followed him from Galilee stood at a distance watching these things. 50Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man, 51who had not consented to their decision and action; and he was looking for the kingdom of God. 52This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud and laid him in a tomb cut in stone, where no one had ever yet been laid. 54It was the day of Preparation, and the Sabbath was beginning. 55The women who had come with him from Galilee followed and saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
The Authority of Jesus Christ of Nazareth How best to reveal and apply authority? Authority + Revelation = Confrontation Intimations/harbingers of what is to come: Luke 2 40And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. Luke 2 46And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. Luke 2 52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. More than an office: Luke 4 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son? …. 24And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. …and there went out a fame of Him … Luke 4:14 …and the fame of Him went out…Luke 4:36 …went there a fame abroad of Him…Luke 5:15 Luke 4 28And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. 30But he passing through the midst of them went his way, 31And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days. 32And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. Luke 5 9For he (Simon Peter) was astonished, and all that were with him, at the draught of the fishes which they had taken: 10And so was also James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were partners with Simon. And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men. 11And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him. Luke 5 20And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. 24But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins (he said unto the sick of the palsy) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. 26And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day. Luke 5 31And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. More than a matter of Ability:John 5:36 But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish — the very works that I do — testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. More than a matter of Endorsement: John 14:24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Holy Gospel Luke 2:22–40 22When the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, [Mary and Joseph] brought [Jesus] up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”) 24and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, “a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.” 25Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said, 29“Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace, according to your word;30for my eyes have seen your salvation31that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,32a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to your people Israel.” 33And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.” 36And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin, 37and then as a widow until she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day. 38And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem. 39And when they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. 40And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him.
Many Christians think that they will have salvation if they believe in Jesus and confess their faith. They quote selected verses from the Bible like John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” and John 11:25,26: “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.“ However, those were not the only words that Jesus spoke. He also said to His disciples: “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you.”Matthew 28:18-20. He commanded His disciples to make disciples who OBEY ALL His commandments, not just some of them. He said:”teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded you.” Jesus did not just command His disciples to tell them to believe or to teach others just to believe in Him. He said:“Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16WHOEVER BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” Mark 16:15,16. The words of Jesus, are the words of eternal life, His commandments, His teachings, as also recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The only way to have the HOPE of eternal life is to OBEY Jesus. Believe, repent, be baptized in water and OBSERVE/OBEY ALL that He commanded, or else you will not have eternal life. May Jesus bless you.
Ecclesiastes 5:10–20 10He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity. 11When goods increase, they increase who eat them, and what advantage has their owner but to see them with his eyes? 12Sweet is the sleep of a laborer, whether he eats little or much, but the full stomach of the rich will not let him sleep. 13There is a grievous evil that I have seen under the sun: riches were kept by their owner to his hurt, 14and those riches were lost in a bad venture. And he is father of a son, but he has nothing in his hand. 15As he came from his mother’s womb he shall go again, naked as he came, and shall take nothing for his toil that he may carry away in his hand. 16This also is a grievous evil: just as he came, so shall he go, and what gain is there to him who toils for the wind? 17Moreover, all his days he eats in darkness in much vexation and sickness and anger. 18Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot. 19Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God. 20For he will not much remember the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with joy in his heart. Mark 10:23–31 23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!” 24And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” 27Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.” 28Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Mark 9:14–29 14When they came to the disciples, they saw a great crowd around them, and scribes arguing with them. 15And immediately all the crowd, when they saw him, were greatly amazed and ran up to [Jesus] and greeted him. 16And he asked them, “What are you arguing about with them?” 17And someone from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. 18And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able.” 19And he answered them, “O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.” 20And they brought the boy to him. And when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. 21And Jesus asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. 22And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23And Jesus said to him, “If you can! All things are possible for one who believes.” 24Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” 25And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.” 26And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse, so that most of them said, “He is dead.” 27But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. 28And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” 29And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”
Luke 23:26-31: "26And as they led him away, they seized one Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and laid on him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus. 27And there followed him a great multitude of the people and of women who were mourning and lamenting for him. 28But turning to them Jesus said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!' 30Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.' 31For if they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?""
Share your response to this sermon in our Facebook group.Find us online at www.adventnyc.orgJoin us for worship any Sunday at 9am & 11am in English, and 12:30pm in Spanish.Readings for this SundayActs 1:15-17, 21-2615In those days Peter stood up among the believers (together the crowd numbered about one hundred twenty persons) and said, 16“Friends, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus—17for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” 21So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” 23So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. 24Then they prayed and said, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen 25to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.Psalm 11Happy are they who have not walked in the counsel | of the wicked, nor lingered in the way of sinners, nor sat in the seats | of the scornful! 2Their delight is in the law | of the Lord, and they meditate on God’s teaching | day and night. R 3They are like trees planted by streams of water, bearing fruit in due season, with leaves that | do not wither; everything they | do shall prosper. 4It is not so | with the wicked; they are like chaff which the wind | blows away. 5Therefore the wicked shall not stand upright when | judgment comes, nor the sinner in the council | of the righteous. 6For the Lord knows the way | of the righteous, but the way of the wicked shall | be destroyed. R1 John 5:9-139If we receive human testimony, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has testified to his Son. 10Those who believe in the Son of God have the testimony in their hearts. Those who do not believe in God have made him a liar by not believing in the testimony that God has given concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.John 17:6-19[Jesus prayed:] 6“I have made your name known to those whom you gave me from the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me is from you; 8for the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9I am asking on their behalf; I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you gave me, because they are yours. 10All mine are yours, and yours are mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves. 14I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 15I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one. 16They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 17Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth.”
Text: Acts 1: 15-26 15In those days Peter stood up among the believers (together the crowd numbered about one hundred twenty persons) and said, 16“Friends, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” 18(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19This became known to all the residents of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their language Hakeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20“For it is written in the book of Psalms, ‘Let his homestead become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it’; and ‘Let another take his position of overseer.’ 21So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” 23So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. 24Then they prayed and said, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen 25to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.
Luke 20:19-26: "The scribes and the chief priests sought to lay hands on him at that very hour, for they perceived that he had told this parable against them, but they feared the people. 20So they watched him and sent spies, who pretended to be sincere, that they might catch him in something he said, so as to deliver him up to the authority and jurisdiction of the governor. 21So they asked him, "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach rightly, and show no partiality, but truly teach the way of God. 22Is it lawful for us to give tribute to Caesar, or not?" 23But he perceived their craftiness, and said to them, 24"Show me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have?" They said, "Caesar's." 25He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." 26And they were not able in the presence of the people to catch him in what he said, but marveling at his answer they became silent."
Prayer, holiness and the God of Peace1 Thessalonians 5:23-28This is the last sermon in this series. I have mixed feelings. I have enjoyed preaching through this book and wish I wasn't leaving it.Paul draws his final encouragements and exhortations to a close in two magnificent verses (23-24) and then ends the letter where he started: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.” Grace has been one important theme in this letter - a letter that he asks be read to all the brothers - and it is where Paul chooses to draw his readers' attention at the end of this letter. He leaves us amazed at God.How so? Well, last week's sermon was heavily invested on my side of things… rejoice - at all times; pray - unceasingly; be grateful - in everything. Why? Because this is God's will for you. Don't extinguish the Spirit, don't despise the prophesies, but test everything and keep what is good. And then the capstone: keep yourself from every form of evil. No tall order… and it seems to all be on me.Perhaps I left you thinking that… holiness is something I need to accomplish. Not entirely, because now Paul offers a benediction in which he wishes two things from God: that He might make us holy and that we might be kept blameless at Christ's return. And what He is asking for… that's what we want to unpack this morning.The God of Peace 23aLiterally Paul says here: “And may He - the God of peace - Himself…” What a personal God we serve. He involves Himself intimately in the affairs of man. God Himself will make us holy. He does not expect us to make strides in personal struggle and in keeping ourselves from. God does it Himself. But why the God of peace? There have been quite a few that ask this question… why does Paul address God as the God of peace in this context. Personal holiness is not often thought of in the context of peace.Romans 5:1 gives us a reason perhaps. Through justification by our faith we have peace with God. Justification is a legal term that is akin to acquit. We have been declared righteous through our faith in Jesus Christ and because of this legal ruling we have peace with God. It is through this peace with God that He acts on our behalf, beginning a work in us that He will complete. A work that Paul calls sanctification. It is God's will that we become holy - and because we are at peace with Him, He can work it in us in such a personal way.Thorough sanctification 23b“May God sanctify you through and through.” This pictures a completed sanctification. The word here is a strengthened form of ‘whole'. In some ways it is an exaggerated term - perhaps even hyperbole. Complete is already complete. Today we like to add the word “super” to everything to intensify the verb we are using. But compete is one of those words that already signifies completeness in its definition. And yet, here we have a intensified verb for complete. Really complete… super complete… sanctified super-complete. Paul is asked for a thorough sanctification.Purpose-driven sanctification 23cThen Paul introduces three aspects to humanity - spirit, soul, and body - that has spawned voluminous writing on the constitution of mankind. Does man consist of material and immaterial (body and spirit) or of three parts body, soul and spirit. Or is man - as the Jews view man - holistic (a living soul). To argue this misses the point entirely, since Paul is focused on the completeness of man, not to define man's inner divisions. More dangerous, however, is the idea that man is a trinity, as God is a trinity (created in His image). This is not the case. A body without a spirit or soul is dead - it cannot live without the immaterial parts, which immediately argues against a trinity. Man is created in God's image in that he was given personality (intellect, emotion and will) and that He is a moral being capable of choosing good or evil.What Paul is explaining here is that man is completely - all the way through - kept. Paul may be - perhaps - arguing against Greek philosophical dualism. The Greek Philosophers believed that man was body and soul and that the body was evil (earthly) and the soul was divine. The human struggle, then, is to rid oneself of the body and ascend to the heavenly. This spawned the idea that it did not matter what a person did in the body, for it was evil.When Paul is discussing the complete and thorough sanctification and discussing the preserving of man, he begins with the preservation of the spirit and then includes the two terms that Greek philosophers use: soul and body, to prove the eternal value of the body (look back at chapter 4). The point, however, is that man is completely and entirely preserved blameless.This impressed the believers in Thessalonica is evidenced by the inscription on some ancient Christian graves in Thessalonica: amemptos… which means “blameless.” What an expression of confidence in the work of God. Paul requests that the believer might be kept blameless at the Parousia of the Lord (emphasis is Paul's) Jesus Christ. When He comes, may we be constantly guarded completely blameless.The God of Faithfulness 24And then Paul's capstone: God called you… He is faithful to do it. It echoes Philippians 1:6 - He who began a good work in you will complete it. God is faithful to us to do it… we are commanded to do it… He is going to do it. Now that is an incredible liberty. God calls us to holiness, but He is the One that sanctifies. Live this way… but I'll do it. This is the grace of God… to call us to something and yet do it Himself. Our's is more a matter of getting out of the way of the work that God wants to do.Pray and Greet 25-26And then Paul asks that the believers will pray in such a way for them as well. No one is above this need and dependency on God. Greet one another… I'm just going to add this in closing… the only way you can greet one another - and ‘with a kiss' is simply a cultural reference… it doesn't mean we need to go around kissing each other - the only way you can greet one another is if you are meeting one another. You need to be in Church. The writer of Hebrews warns us: don't make it a habit to be out of Church (10:25). You need the encouragement and you need the challenge… and you need the prayers of your believers. Be in Church. Stop skipping because it's inconvenient or hard. The necessary things of life are always hard.So…Is holiness your wish?How thoroughly do you want to be sanctified?What is het goal of your sanctification?Who is making you holy?
The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all these things, and they ridiculed him. 15And he said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 16"The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void. 18"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. 19"There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 27And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
And he said, "There was a man who had two sons. 12And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.' And he divided his property between them. 13Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything. 17"But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants."' 20And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' 22But the father said to his servants, 'Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate. 25"Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27And he said to him, 'Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.' 28But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, 29but he answered his father, 'Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!' 31And he said to him, 'Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.'"
Mark 14:22-26And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”26 A...
Wednesday, June 26, 2013 Forsaken Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" _________________ York Minister Why would God the Father forsake Jesus, the Son of God? I find it interesting that today I published a blog consisting of a passage that's been sitting in my drafts from reading Exodus. The interesting thing is the contrast with this passage in Mark. Many have noted over the years that in every way Jesus is the perfect Israel. Jesus is the obedient son. Jesus kept the law fully as no man or woman had ever done and he did this without stumbling once. He is faultless in all ways. Yet here on the cross he is forsaken by the Father. Here on the cross Jesus assumes the position of the guilty. Jesus is suffering the full wrath of God. He faces death, mocking, torture rejection. But further, where we can not observe, Jesus is carrying the weight of our sin. All the evil of humanity past, present, and future is crushing Jesus. All the guilt, all the fear, all the pain is rending God's soul. Somehow Jesus the God man is actually suffering so that we can be made free. He is punished so we can be accepted and more than accepted we are imputed, attributed and blessed with the merit of his righteousness. Till the moment he dies it seems all humanity is hurling upon Jesus scorn, mocking, and abuse because he had made himself vulnerable. When in fact he is the all powerful, all knowing, compassionate, merciful, gracious, exacting, just judge of all mankind. And after he dies there on the cross people say he must be the Son of God. Why this change? Maybe we see it partially in Joseph of Arimathea. Joseph it says was looking for the Kingdom of God. This small commentary on the man who buries Jesus I believe is meant to say he found what he was looking for in Jesus. Joseph wasn't running away like the disciples earlier, nor standing at a distance like the women. Joseph found courage on Jesus' death. We too can find courage in the obedient son's ultimate act of courage. We can identify and let Jesus' death in fact be our own. When Joseph places Jesus in his tomb could it be he is saying this man died in my place so I have nothing to fear and no need to further prepare for my own death. Jesus had done it all. Mark 15 The Crucifixion 21And they compelled a passerby, Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to carry his cross. 22And they brought him to the place called Golgotha (which means Place of a Skull).23And they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. 24And they crucified him and divided his garments among them, casting lots for them, to decide what each should take. 25And it was the third hour when they crucified him. 26And the inscription of the charge against him read, "The King of the Jews." 27And with him they crucified two robbers, one on his right and one on his left. 29And those who passed by derided him, wagging their heads and saying, "Aha! You who would destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, 30save yourself, and come down from the cross!" 31So also the chief priests with the scribes mocked him to one another, saying, "He saved others; he cannot save himself. 32Let the Christ, the King of Israel, come down now from the cross that we maysee and believe." Those who were crucified with him also reviled him. The Death of Jesus 33And when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. 34And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" 35And some of the bystanders hearing it said, "Behold, he is calling Elijah." 36And someone ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink, saying, "Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to take him down." 37And Jesus uttered a loud cry and breathed his last. 38And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. 39And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that in this way he breathed his last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!" 40There were also women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41When he was in Galilee, they followed him and ministered to him, and there were also many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem. Jesus Is Buried 42And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the Council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.44Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph. 46And Joseph bought a linen shroud, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid. Posted by William Bode at 6/26/2013 07:49:00 am Labels: cross, crucifixion, death, Jesus, Joseph, Kingdom of God, sin Location: 4 Cruise Road, Sheffield, South Yorkshire S11 7EF, UK Lavish Love Exodus 20:1-6 NLT Then God gave the people all these instructions : “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of your slavery. “You must not have any other god but me. “You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea. You must not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God who will not tolerate your affection for any other gods. I lay the sins of the parents upon their children; the entire family is affected—even children in the third and fourth generations of those who reject me. But I lavish unfailing love for a thousand generations on those who love me and obey my commands. ____________________ Jesus was obedient Israel but on the cross he was forsaken.
1 Kings 18 1And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth. 2And Elijah went to shew himself unto Ahab. And there was a sore famine in Samaria. 3And Ahab called Obadiah, which was the governor of his house. (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly: 4For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.) 5And Ahab said unto Obadiah, Go into the land, unto all fountains of water, and unto all brooks: peradventure we may find grass to save the horses and mules alive, that we lose not all the beasts. 6So they divided the land between them to pass throughout it: Ahab went one way by himself, and Obadiah went another way by himself. 7And as Obadiah was in the way, behold, Elijah met him: and he knew him, and fell on his face, and said, Art thou that my lord Elijah? 8And he answered him, I am: go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here. 9And he said, What have I sinned, that thou wouldest deliver thy servant into the hand of Ahab, to slay me? 10As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not. 11And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here. 12And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth. 13Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD's prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water? 14And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here: and he shall slay me. 15And Elijah said, As the LORD of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, I will surely shew myself unto him to day. 16So Obadiah went to meet Ahab, and told him: and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? 18And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim. 19Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table. 20So Ahab sent unto all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together unto mount Carmel. 21And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word. 22Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men. 23Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: 24And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken. 25And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made. 27And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 28And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them. 29And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded. 30And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. 31And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: 32And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 33And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. KB Chan Music
click here Visit the Recover In Christ web site. Romans 11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Visit the Recover In Christ web site. leviticus 4 1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: 3If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. 4And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD. 5And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation: 6And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary. 7And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8And he shall take off from it all the fat of the bullock for the sin offering; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 9And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away, 10As it was taken off from the bullock of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall burn them upon the altar of the burnt offering. 11And the skin of the bullock, and all his flesh, with his head, and with his legs, and his inwards, and his dung, 12Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt. 13And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty; 14When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation. 15And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD. 16And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation: 17And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail. 18And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 19And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar. 20And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. 21And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation. 22When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty; 23Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish: 24And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it is a sin offering. 25And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering. 26And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him. 27And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned