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Philippians 4:19And my God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/my/profile)

GOSPEL POWER l SEPTEMBER 7, 2021 l TUESDAY 23rd Week in Ordinary Time Gospel: Lk 6:12-19 12Jesus went out to the mountain to pray; and he spent the night in prayer to God. 13And when day came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles: 14Simon, whom he named Peter, and his brother Andrew, and James, and John, and Philip, and Bartholomew, 15and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Simon, who was called the Zealot, 16and Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. 17He came down with them and stood on a level place, with a great crowd of his disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea, Jerusalem, and the coast of Tyre and Sidon. 18They had come to hear him and to be healed of their diseases; and those who were troubled with unclean spirits were cured. 19And all in the crowd were trying to touch him, for power came out from him and healed all of them. Biblical encounters with the divine very often took place on the mountain. Thus, going up the mountain can be interpreted as entering into the sphere of God. Jesus, although unceasingly in the presence of God, is nevertheless portrayed as going up the mountain. In choosing the twelve apostles, he does not descend, but rather, he calls them to himself up on the mountain, thus drawing them into the sphere of God. No one can participate in the mission of Jesus and become an instrument for the accomplishment of God's purposes unless drawn first into the sphere of God. Lord Jesus, draw us into the sphere of God and grant that our lives, too, may become useful instruments for the fulfillment of the divine purposes. Amen

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Shamanth Rao is the founder and CEO at Rocketship HQ. Shamanth also hosts the Mobile User Acquisition Show podcast, and is the lead instructor for the Mobile Growth Lab workshop series.RocketShip HQ is a boutique growth marketing firm with 8 figures in managed spend. Before founding RocketshipHQ, Shamanth led growth marketing resulting in 3 exits: Bash Gaming (sold for $170mm), Puzzle Social (acquired by Zynga), and FreshPlanet (acquired by Gameloft). Shamanth has also helped many other mobile apps grow and scale.Shamanth is passionate about teaching and sharing everything he's learned about mobile growth. Much of his time and energy goes into the Mobile User Acquisition Show. Shamanth strives to ensure that the wisdom he's gained reaches as many people as possible.In this episode, you'll learn: The history of user acquisition and algorithmic targeting How Apple's AppTrackingTransparency has shifted users to Android What Apple's new tracking policy means for developers Are subscription apps impacted more than other apps by Apple's tracking policy? Links & Resources A Brief History of App Store Monetization episode – with David Barnard A Brief History of Device Identification episode – with David Philippson iOS 14 & IDFA Deprecation How App Marketers Must Adapt - YouTube Shamanth Rao's Links RocketShip HQ's website The Mobile User Acquisition Show Mobile Growth Lab Follow Shamanth on Twitter Shamanth Rao's website Follow us on Twitter: David Barnard Jacob Eiting RevenueCat Sub Club Episode TranscriptShamanth: 00:00:00The more signal you give to the algorithm, the better the algorithm performs, right? You know, in the post AppTrackingTransparency world, if you gain more purchases, the better the algorithm performs, obviously that would take purchases from you and everybody in the world, and it would just do better. Now, obviously it's just taking your trial and doing much, much better.David: 00:00:38Welcome to the sub club podcast. I'm your host, David Bernard, and with me as always Jacob Eiting.Hello Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:45David, glad to be here with you, as always. David: 00:00:48Our guest today is Shamanth Rao, founder and CEO at RocketShip HQ, of the podcast Mobile User Acquisition Show, and lead instructor at the workshop series Mobile Growth. Shamanth's company, RocketShip HQ is a boutique growth marketing agency with eight figures in managed spend. Prior to founding RocketShip HQ Shamanth growth marketing, to three exits. Hey Shamanth.Welcome to the podcast. Shamanth: 00:01:16Honored to be here. Thank you for having me, David and Jacob.David: 00:01:19Yeah. So, I wanted to start with a little bit of a history lesson. You've been in mobile advertising and working on mobile apps for, since very early. So, could you take just a couple of minutes and step us through the history of kind of what led us to today with app tracking transparency, and all the different ups and downs and changes that have happened over the past?Shamanth: 00:01:48Yeah. There's been a lot of ups and downs, as you said. I see two overarching trends, but for folks who want to go into the weeds, I would actually recommend two podcast episodes. One was mine with you, David. A brief history of App Store monetization. You provide a very great perspective into how the App Store itself has changed over the years.The other one was an interview I did with David Phillips, A Brief History of Device Identification You know, we are all about brief histories, but, I think to what we talking about ATT and how essentially disrupted growth in today. There have been two forces that have led up to this point, the last decade or so I think it's important to know and understand both of these, just to know how we got here and why it's important, right.Because ATT just did not happen overnight. There were signs for a decade. And, you know, I think obviously a lot of this is evident in retrospect. but I think it's helpful to know and understand what those breadcrumbs were.Trend number one has been increasing accumulation of particular data platforms over the last decade.You know, I remember, you know, David, as you pointed out, I am a really old person who, which around then, but we don't advertise. It took off, with all this gray hair. But you know, when I started that we were doing CPC buys, CPM buys. I started doing mobile advertising before Facebook even had mobile ads, app ads.There is no conversion tracking. you know, I give it like no conversion tracking. If you, would buy installs, and you're like, oh, we bought 70 stops. We got so many touches that we are profitable and spent like millions on games the time. And suddenly the level of sophistication that emerged in mobile advertising. I don't think we could have posted in 12, 20 13, 20 14. But like I said, from the TPC buys gradually they have a CPI buys as ad networks that now are billion dollar companies. And so it's an app love and have a tiny ad networks at the time.A lot of others basically fell out of the side. know, they, they like, we have enough confidence to be able to build. Rather than just a or impression we have that kind of data, that kind of confidence the next time AEO or purchase optimization. This is 2016, right?It's just, it seems so recent. And it's staggering to think that they could not optimize like athletes if they six, years ago. And that was just the biggest game changer in it. I still remember having a lot of skepticism that this would even work and I'm like, how are they going to find out who's going to purchase?They've never done it, nobody's done it. But clearly, if somebody could do it as a Facebook, they had the budget for data. I can only to that point the time I think it became evident to me, myself, that as to why Facebook was so successful. basically have the IDFA that IDFA on Google ID.They had that idea, with print from on Facebook audience network. So for diva able to predict with ed accuracy, who the purchaser's book, obviously they took it a step further with relapse optimization, So obviously the more data Facebook's SDK gun. The better it got predicting who the purchaser as well.Obviously more data the pixels on the web got the better, the better the accuracy of the SDK became other way around that, because they had, you know, if you made a purchase on a beauty of that site, you would make a purchase on, an e-commerce app. So they put all of that data together.Right? So obviously Google had a very, very similar trajectory. I don't want to go too much into the weeds. Over the last decade, increasing amount of data accumulated by Facebook, by Google folks like apple. And then I am so all add Netflix, everybody got increasing amount of data about users, spectator. they just, weren't doing this in isolation, apple licensed up to this, you know, Google, Google had a bit of a conflict because they were also making money off of this.They are also making money off of this. these less active in pushing back, but you know, apple, the apple, again, not to go too much into the weeds that it's corporate strategy. Two, but for apple to say a hobby, a privacy minded, but it's also very, very much about profits for them. the opera motive.Oh, an ad network. No, I don't know. I don't have a lot of confidence to how they would do anything. Right. So apple said, know, look, we have this beauty ID, which is not great. Let's phase it out. Let's have an IDFA, which is reset the vote, which wasn't too much and improvement. they said, oh, let's make this, idea phase zero, but physio, which means how to use it goes on and off the lab.idea of it becomes and advertisers could not cannot target people. Shockingly enough, to idea, phase zero, which was, I think 2016. But if I use it on the flat adjustment advertises, please don't track the fuse. It's almost like a request. a non enforceable requests, basically needs to attract me, but nobody can, anyway, so even lab Vito was a very, very telltale sign that this is ATD is, where apple is headed.And if you have to look on the web, safari had intelligent tracking prevention. They have obviously. Much more active on the web terms of crackdowns, Mozilla had what what's called ETP. I think it's called it should tracking prevention. I forget what it's called, then Chrome of course said, Hey, we're going to deprecate They've accepted the deadline, but been a lot going on in the direction of privacy. Right. and that, has happened very, very much in parallel that increasing accumulation of data by. And to some extent, you know, it's having these surprises for anyone who's followed the breadcrumbs, not to gone to zero and 2018.Apple said kid stops will not allow tracking. That was almost like a trial balloon bar and of cost 2020. It was not unsurprising, I would say, right. That, it came to be just because of everything over the last decade that I just did.David: 00:09:21Yeah.That's a really great way to summarize it is those two parallel courses with it's like in the shadows, there was like more and more and more and more, more data accumulation feeding all of this, but simultaneously there was more and more and more awareness of privacy concerns.What that data was being used for, and that, you know, it does seem like the press a big influence in this. I mean, when was in New York times and wall street journal, both had big posts in like 2017, 2018, where they showed, you know, how you could track individual users when they're going to, you know, a certain medical clinic or, there was another set of stories around us service members who were being tracked by fitness apps. revealing, basic, we call unknown previously unknown, military installations and things like that. So it, it, yeah, there was a lot going on that has led us to this point. So. So now apple has, has dropped the ball after acting transparency. You know, you you're, you're, you're not allowed to track unless you first prompt.You know, we could, we could talk an hour on all the different motivations and the, and even the way they deliver it, you know, the, the way they. Request the prompt is, is, and the wording of the prompt it has, has even drawn controversy, but let's not get into that.Jacob: 00:10:52Time it comes up, I still don't know what to click, David: 00:10:57Let's talk about the real world impacts because I think there's been a lot of ink spilled in a lot of discussions around, those other things. But, but what I want to hear from you as someone who manages a ton of spandex and works in the industry and, and has to deal with this day in day out.Let's talk through the world impacts of, of, of how this is impacting the apps that you work with and what you've seen kind of in the broader industry. I thought it was interesting before we jumped on the, on the, and started recording, you actually said, you were expecting a crazier summer, so let's just start with that.So you're not quite seeing the disruption you initially expected. Is that, am I over reading that.Shamanth: 00:11:42I don't want to be grand standing here, but I certainly was for worse. and I don't want to jinx this, but suddenly that couple of advertisers really all right, that actually crying.But I talk about the mechanics that may have contributed to that further on, but, I certainly was prepared for far, far, far worse.I would say.David: 00:12:07Yeah. So, so what are you seeing? I mean,Shamanth: 00:12:10Yeah. David: 00:12:10And then one of the things you you've mentioned before is that you are seeing some shift to Android. Tell me about that, shift to Android spend. And is that in certain categories across the board? Shamanth: 00:12:21I think it's across the board. I think it's much more so in gaming. and if you look at a bunch of MMP boats or the estimates, the, shift to about iOS. Yeah, about 30 to 40%. I think that sounds like a realistic range. Obviously there's some verticals that are hit much, much harder, right. yeah.Definitely. I think there's a lot of sped shifting to ad drive. I would attribute some of that to the fact that. Tracking is broken, but you know, oh, I hate to see a, this, like a mother spoke to the work with, and the, also the advice and I've just stopped you. You're like, oh my God. My CPA is a boated by Facebook is terrible because Facebook's not tracking anything.And then when we look at the blended numbers, Basically the money they make and the trials to get and the subscriptions get, which is exactly what I mean by it. Not being as as I expected. You know, look at the iTunes dashboards,Just go crashing down, which is what I was afraid would happen. Right. and that, that has not happened. but what is real and true is like I said, tracking is broken, even if not right. I'm tracking to just grow congested because apple has a concept of privacy threshold. which basically means, if, campaign.Does not have minimum number of stops or purchases. Apple is going to show they report all installed. But, but the report very few purchases. What that means is you are a casual game, our social casino app that has Costco, set it up 150 to $200, is not uncommon for these. each campaign, if you're running $500 a day per campaign, you get two patches.So for people, campaign would just get obfuscated by the privacy threshold, which means if you're going to find a dollar at a campaign, you'll probably get it, but you're just not seeing them, which is better than a was that I'm not.David: 00:14:53Yeah, we We, are we back to the old days of, of half your advertising budget is working. You just don't know which half Shamanth: 00:15:01Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much true.Jacob: 00:15:05I was going to ask, so the pull back on the spend, like, is that, do you know where that's coming from along the chain? Is that, is that companies not being sure anymore and pulling back? Is it, is it agencies? Is it all long? Because at some point somebody has to, because I, it makes sense that like, one, we don't know how effective all this stuff was to begin with.Right. And so just losing the tracking doesn't necessarily mean it's less effective. It just means we don't know. And so it seems a little foolhardy to just dial back. Right. you know, especially if your business relies on it, but it seems like that's what most, at least some percentage of companies have done.They've they've pulled back just because they're not sure.Shamanth: 00:15:44Yeah.I think I would also say a lot of companies that have pulled back have had strong drive products. the couple of companies that I know that are doing better now, actually don't have very strong, I drive products. We don't have a choice, right? We don't have a choice. I obviously I don't fly that strong guy, but having a fall back means be good to take a little bit easy most time to Android.We figured out what is going on you get to your question. I think a lot of that's coming from companies, especially larger established companies that have. BI teams and reporting systems and dashboards on the creative level alive. We just don't have that in our book anymore. Jacob: 00:16:38And they're spending too much to be confident in just YoloShamanth: 00:16:41Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, David: 00:16:44Any specific trends on, on CPMs and cross portrayal or anything like that? As far as with the drop-in. Spend on iOS and the increase on Android has some of the performance on Iowa's not degrading been more to do with market dynamics change versus it actually just working as efficient.Shamanth: 00:17:07Yeah. you know, I try not to look at CPMs just because CPMs are very contingent on the kind of optimization you have to like, you know, and may, if you had value optimization, you be paying QPM segment to their roof and your CPMs on audio sense. I couldn't be higher than Instagram and Facebook and the metric.What I like to look at is really the CPA, but there's a cost, but. also has the capacity because of the privacy, especially for nowDavid: 00:17:41Right. Shamanth: 00:17:41Cost per trial, which I see being steady. Now to your question to your underlying question about, do I attribute back to the underlying market dynamics?Definitely. I think that the fact that there's less of competition, I do think has contributed to, the TPA being steady folks that have continued to do iOS. Definitely. I do think that the lesser competition has pleaded. David: 00:18:06That makes sense. let's talk a little bit, cause this is kind of our wheelhouse at, remedy CA obviously, nice shirt by the way, Jacob. Jacob: 00:18:16Is the original first ever revenue cat t-shirtDavid: 00:18:19Nice. how, how are subscription apps being impacted in, in what you've seen and then how is that different from, you know, games and other categories that you're working. Shamanth: 00:18:31Yeah. I would say subscription apps are hit much, much less odd than. A lot of games, again, I'm qualify. I don't want to sound like I'm grand standing because this is not like a body of Fiesta yet, but I think they're it better than folks who are really clear that I don't want to say clueless, but folks who are just struggling, you know, I talked about, you know, let's just say a hypothetical casual game or a social casino app that has a cost, the big user 150, if you get killed by the privacy test, short subscription app less impacted by that. just because, you know, again, you're off book which is a primary metric, nearly every subscription app, a squat Cheverly under $50, which means for the same $500 budget you getting, you get, you're getting 10 purchases.So. Deceptive as are that privacy threshold. Right. and the other factor that makes the whole ATD tank a lot easier for subscription naps is that nearly every subscription app, I know have 90%, lots of trials happen within the first 24 hours of install. What that means that in the ATP paradigm is A lot, not nearly all of that signal gets captured by the ATT algorithm, by a scab because a scab network workshop with system of timers, right. immediately after install a timer starts and after 54 Davos the timer reset, if y'all, and then the reset of the starts and, if no event has happened in that second time, A lot of the events that have happened first, get sent back to the, get sent back to APO.Not that event gets sent by them. And I'm probably definitely grossly simplifying the, some of this. and, I have a YouTube video that goes into the distance with the V2. People can check that out, but my point being the fact that of the trucks nearly all the trials happened within the first 24 hours.Make it relatively easier for our subscription apps to have to be captured by ad network. that's one of the reasons, lack of trust snaps do quite and obviously, you know, the most signal you give to the aggregate them, the better the I that is in bombs, right. you know, in the P PhET was if you gave most budgets, The better that I go to them, but obviously the algorithm would take you and everybody else that it would just do better.Now, obviously it's just taking your trial and doing much, much better. add onto the trend we've seen is that VAT based flows work a lot better for subscription apps than for games. again, there are challenges in execution, certainly. One of the things that they've seen that allows them relatively most after doing doc, that based lotion.Right. yeah, so I, I would say those are some of the factors that think contribute to subscription apps being better off than games and the post ATT world. again, not to grandstand, not to the, victory yet, but I think that that much, much better.Jacob: 00:22:14Yeah. There's, there's still, also just the dynamic with consumable games. Like, I don't know what retention curves really look like and stuff like this, but with subscriptions, you know, your acquisitions you're making today only effect, you know, a chunk of your revenue in the very short term versus, and you have this like recurring user base consumables.If your new users dry out really fast, like suddenly, you suddenly lost a lot of. Yeah. A lot of them, your business model doesn't work as well. Right. So, but wow, that's incredible that the, so on the CPIs, for like social casinos or whatever, which I imagine is just thought a high spend category, highly competitive space.So if they don't have like value attribution, What sexually driving the CPI so high? Like how do they know like what users to spend that much money on? Is it just, is it just, I guess click-based like, it is still like they can, they can proxy and know like people that click on those are part of that high value group or, or what, what, what keeps the, keeps the targeting good enough so that, you know, cause you can imagine if everything was perfectly anonymous, all CPAs would clicks would be the same, right.Across all apps.Shamanth: 00:23:21Yeah, yeah, yeah, At this point, I don't, would not say if you have a perfect answer or apps with high CPA, I think the best we have right now is true. Facebook reports, metrics, health platform reported metrics that directional, which means your CPA today would not be comparable to your page 80 TCPA, but because it's going to be very, very high, just because of the privacy picture that I just described, if you are getting maybe $500 on this 700 on that, that you just input campaign is better than campaign.But you're not impairing that job. That is your actual cost acquisition. So you're taking the CPA as a relative measure. I think that's true for the game it is for subscription apps. You're treating the CPA as a relative measure cabinet and campaign B or not so much as an absolute measure of unit economic.David: 00:24:20I think that's a great to transition into what's actually working right now. So we're talking about some of the impacts, but, Hinting at it's something that you've mentioned before, is that the best source of truth now is not. These specific return on ad spend calculation, but actually using blended metrics.So tell me a little bit about how, how you approach thinking about metrics as a source of truth versus, you know, the past, you know, five or six years where it's way more focused on. very detailed return on ad spend. And again, to our earlier point, even if that return on ad spend calculation, wasn't actually as accurate as it seemed, Jacob: 00:25:07Okay David: 00:25:08You were at least able to calculate it more accurately.Now it's like kinda everything's out the window. how are you approaching blended spend or blended metrics, to measure these things?Shamanth: 00:25:20Yeah, I would add the caveat that the blended metrics isn't like modern on you. Right? What old school? Offline advertising work. They were like, oh, this is how much I spend. This is how much I made, how they measured everything before the internet. And even with the internet, like of companies, we work.Even three ATT works at blended metrics because we know that a portion of our paid installs drive organics, we have a very, very clear correlation between updated organic. So we would be money on the table if we took into a concept paid users and not organics. So, you know, people have definitely done that.And that companies that have done it just to pursue growth. they're like, look, we need to grow as aggressively as possible. And the way to do that is to take lead and metrics to justify the growth rather than to shackle us. Jeff Pedro lab, back to your question. How, how how do we sort of look at this names will say, this campaign gave us, return on ad spend 20% cost per trial of $30.You're basically saying your overall marketing spent, gave you a $20 cost per trial across paid and organic and social and that you're spending on. Obviously, a lot of people to be uncomfortable with that because they're like, oh no, if I hadn't spent on marketing, I would have still gotten trials a day.And I'm giving credit to marketing for that. And, you know, I, I don't have a direct answer to that, but I think the answer really is. Would you want to be, would you want that's helpful and has to get crew or would you. And model that's accurate, but isn't having you grow. not going to claim I have an answer to that one, but, yeah.So basically looking at your total number of trials and your total spend. obviously this calculation becomes scarier. you have multiple chats, Yeah. If you're running Google, Facebook snap, and multiple ad networks, then you're like, oh, you know, one of the ad networks probably performed badly, but my total blender not change all that much because my other channels, 10% of time stops, but there are challenges, especially at collage level spend, but is very solid source of truth, especially for smaller advertisers who may be on a handful of channels.Here, I guess it's what you see in the back. David: 00:28:19And, you also mentioned that, people, do you, you mentioned web flows are working really well. And I assume what you meant by that is sending people from an ad into, onto the web instead of onto the app store, which is, it's really fascinating to me on multiple levels because. You know, the app stores have always been this black box where you put a certain number of, of clicks into it.Then, you know, you see the end result, but you don't see any of the steps in between. I mean, you have some basic metrics with app store, analytics and stuff. but with the web, I would imagine that that gives you a more direct. Trackable, link from somebody who, sees an ad to then actually kind of what they're doing on your website.So, but then ultimately I've talked to a lot of developers who talk about how on the web, their conversions are actually quite a bit lower in the app because Apple's made it so easy to use an app purchase. So, but it seems like maybe there is somewhat of a balance. There is that maybe you lose fewer people.From having to jump through those hoops of the app before they even get to the onboarding before they can be shown, you know, the value proposition and then being, you know, shown a subscription, page or whatever it is. what have you seen working in regard to web flows and then, and specifically for subscription? Shamanth: 00:29:53Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I've certainly seen a lot of success bar description apps that have adopted web most, a couple of apps have up 15 month on month group to ATT. not to have typical, revert, but it's that's happened. I think a couple of elements, you know, I think it's, what's most important is to make sure that it's right and there's a couple of possible lows.I think it's important to pick to which one is right. And really, and I think one flow could be showing that. A user goes to a landing page, which is basically like a B2B ought to be, to see that the page on the web and what you would get for a And you have a link that accept call to call to action on the landing pages, go to the app store.So a lot of that experience, but just, and try to explain it's happens on the app store, the web page. I actually does the job of telling the user on the product. And it's my hypothesis that this actually works well because Yvette page can do a much, much better job of selling than the app store can, while still making it clear that this is an app, and while actual conversion happens within the app itself, but, similar, a different flow that's very comparable would be take an ad, take a user from an ad to a landing page where users have to input that.Which again, get, use, it makes it makes it clear to the user that this is an app. is a mobile experience. User gets a text message and use assigned top work. and when they click on the text message, get to go to the app store and download the app. Right. Again, another model could be a user clicks on an ad, to an article or a content page, which is what you would see if you had a Double-A or a printed article or a content page to not store.And I can, the last one I can do, the more complex no is just to have onboard them on the web. basically take them to a webpage and they And, hopefully so I can make the purchase on the web. It mitigates your favorite petty, to be honest, the hottest and most strict food resource intensive.And really it's my recommendation that you put you that back after you put you in one of the best that I recommended, because you don't want to invest a kind of engineering and development time and bending, don't even know that the flow is going to work for you. so I would recommend just testing the web landing pages first then onboarding stuff.But, I think those are most important models that we see work. Somebody else. I think that's also very, very critical. think a lot of people, when they look at a lot of advertisers, I know that have started on the web for the first time. We're like, oh, Put together this nice landing page that looks like our homepage, on our website and just put it out there.Okay.Let's, you're being very intentional about what value propositions to touch on Actually out of your landing page. And we have a structure that we use now. most important, part and value proposition and that's social proof then your most important emotional benefits then. I think the most successful advertisers we work with are very, very intentional about what that, that page is looking like.And they also tested their athlete. I think it elements are very, very critical to making theDavid: 00:33:59Yeah.That's really smart. And I hadn't thought of it quite that way about how, yeah. And that was, I was talking with the apps are being the black box is you're just sending somebody, hoping they look at the screenshots, hoping the icon resonates with them, hoping the title and subtitle are meaningful, but when you send them to the web, it's not just about them right.To subscribe on the web, but it's actually just. Having a better opportunity to communicate the value prop so that by the time they get to the app store, they are, they have a much higher, They have a higher, they're just more likely to actually take action by the time they do get to the app store.Does that makes a lot of sense?Jacob: 00:34:39Tells you a lot about the quality of like the app store as a sales pitch. Right? I mean, but I guess when you're like looking at a, you know, you're trying to differentiate, right, and there's only so much, you can communicate in a block of text and then a bunch of screenshots. Right. And you've seen so much.Data shoved into the screenshots on asking LAMSTAR right. They're not screenshots. Right. They're like deck.David: 00:35:00Billboards Shamanth: 00:35:01Yeah.Yeah. I also think another reason why the app store works so well, pre with Facebook would just show ads to users to install other subscription apps. So if you send them directly to the after, they're almost pretty qualified. case anymore. So I think that absolutely level the field a lot.Jacob: 00:35:27Yeah.It's, it's, it's a tough, skill set though, for a lot of developers because they don't often have web experience internally. I think, I think I'm, I hear so much, like people get so obsessed about the 30%. and they want to jump straight to that last one. You mentioned about building a whole online purchasing thing, which like, you know, Stripe's pretty easy to use.Like it's, it's, you know, it's not that much more work than building a landing page, but you have to remember. okay. Management. So now you got to have a link for somebody who can go and cancel that thing. Now you also have to worry about taxes, Stripe. Doesn't like collect a tax information for you already.You have to, you know, then synchronize that with your backend. And, you know, if you're using revenue, casing grants with us or whatever, but you got to manage all that too. a lot of complexity, for 30%. Right. And when you're just trying to, you know, all of these things can find incremental. But like, as you're saying, it's important to put them in the right order or you can end up a lot of and money.Shamanth: 00:36:28Yeah, yeah. David: 00:36:30Well, I did want to, to move on to the, the, future. So we, we've kind of gotten through the first couple of months of these, this rough patch in or into this, era of, of mobile advertising. Are there any things that you're seeing that are especially promising. the future is the future.Everything we've been discussing so far of just of your advertising works and 50% doesn't mean you're never going to know which, do you, or are there some technologies coming online or some approaches that are just going to take time to of work out.Shamanth: 00:37:12Yeah, I think there's going to be some changes. I don't know. These are going to be shattering, in terms of changing. ATP. I think the most promising though, I would say, iOS 15 custom product pages, basically solve the problem of Jacob. didn't give it to you. How one tomorrow slide deck and everybody sees the same tag and Astro does a terrible job of sending a user on.What the product is basically, the custom product pages can have up to 25 washes off your app store. which means like if you're a, you know, wellness app, if let's just say you're a meditation app that has a meditation for sleep or anxiety and how to meditate. Separate landing page, so to speak on the app store, anxiety, meditation, right.And you can send, get a unique URL for each of these. you're going to have ad for sleep, going to an app store for each sleep for anxiety going to an app. So for anxiety I can, that can help. I just don't think it's going to have too much on the measurement front. obviously.Actual execution is still unclear. The announcements out. Definitely one of the big changes I would take that's coming with 15. The other one would just be that, advertisers are going to be receiving post-docs, which is huge, at least in ensuring of the advertising data so far, completely bonkers right now.Networks like Facebook snap, everybody get your post back from ASCAP network, but you have advertiser you as an advertiser. Which means you basically take the word for it. I do know for a fact that has actually changed values. I don't want to call it malicious because the conversion value was no.And to change it to zero, the problem is that knowledge will have very, very different meanings. You don't mean install. not mean to install happen, and there's no value. know that they did that change. I don't have that company to do it. but my point is, and Google, Google explicitly say we are going to use model conversion.So you basically take out what bird app Facebook face tapping data is accurate. Everything underneath it's modeled, means take out all of this is because the postdoc goes to the metroplex, but not the avatar. if the post that goes to the advertiser, you can add the very least verified that tell me the truth, which bonkers? I think David, you imagining, until all the time, you, you just have to think that, oh, back onto words for it even PhET right.I think That's going to be a big, big change, even though a lot of that will happen under the hood. And I say advertisers for the back majority of advertisers, going to do, they're receiving a Okta. Uh post-bacc but I think that's going to be a big deal, but, I think those are the big changes, the custom product pages and the post-bac to advertisers the tree and the intent of the future.In many ways, I do think it's going to be back to 2013 or 2014. I think I had talked about how. A number of installs and to be held that certain percentages, knew that each of them would convert to Jacob: 00:40:59Okay Shamanth: 00:41:00have a digital subscription. So they the cloud, but think it's going to be a very similar world. We are going to be, you're going to have to be more comfortable making decisions based off of incomplete data.But I do see that thing. David: 00:41:15One of the things I've been hearing a lot about since, since apple announced. The last year is incrementality testing. So systematically on and off, you know, so if you're advertising, I mean, obviously this would be a tool for, for larger apps, but if you're advertising across Facebook, Google snap, TOK, and you know, other mobile DSP.You know, systematically moving spend around and then measuring the difference or even turning spend off in certain channels and increasing spend in other channels. you seen that work? and are you, excited about the potential, of having tools in this space? do you think incrementality testing is a bit over-hyped.Shamanth: 00:42:02Any recommendation like incrementality? I think one caveat that a lot of people miss. That it's useful. What a very, very tiny fraction of advertisers, David, like you said, if. Like all the society building networks, multiple DSPs, ad networks, instrumentalists TV. Yes, absolutely. You know, you should use incrementality because there's just no way you're going to find out if this is going to work incrementality and, media mix modeling.You want to use both of them had an ad to make that work. But I would say the kinds of advertisers who need like this are a very tiny fraction. So the vast majority of advertisers, even the advertisers who are on four to five channels, even advertisers who spend those six tickets in a monthly spend, I don't think testing is going to be, Betty has just because Todd, you know, it's, it just becomes imprecise.Volumes of data. You need a critical mass of data for to be useful. right. I think it's a very similar thing that began X models, right? You need anomalous, anomalous budgets to dose to be useful and helpful. So I do take, these are great. I think the fact that they're not an antidote to all of the havoc that has, about the applicable to our tiny Sheila David: 00:43:39That makes sense. And then if, if you're only advertising on Google or only advertising and Facebook are only advertising on the two of them, they're, they're essentially doing some level of incrementality testing for you right there. Measuring the performance of this campaign against that campaign.And they're up depending on the results that they seem to be seeing. So there's some of that's kind of already covered if you're using those platforms, as your primary sources, Another thing I wanted to get your thoughts on was experimentation with other forms of advertising. I you're, you're very focused, currently on, on, you know, paid user acquisition and I don't think that's going away.And I think for, you know, for a lot of apps that is going to be the, the, the best, most reliable way to continue scaling even without accurate measurement. But have you seen any other. pushes with any of your customers, to work on, on, on different styles of advertising, different, approaches to marketing that are being successful.And do you see their kind of more incentive to try more things these days?Shamanth: 00:44:50No, I spoke about web, and I think there's definitely much, much stronger interest in that campaign than even six months ago. Larger budgets, definitely stronger interest. I would, again, like with the extra mentality, I would say shut on smaller budgets, I do not recommend experimenting.I do not recommend diversifying, but certainly have larger budgets. I would also say that are worth spending in the tens of millions, budgets like that have the, even like millions a month. Uh there's some, these other larger studios. They have already been on influencers that wasn't even advertised on TV, none of this would be new to them.Yeah, so I, I don't, I bet anything radically new that.David: 00:45:42Yeah. And then that kind of gets back to the old tried and true. You just got to build a good product and work on your monetization, and kind of get back to the basics of, of product as well. Jacob: 00:45:54I think sometimes these, these overly complex, overly targeted systems, especially for people who make software contend to be busy boxes, right. They can tend to be, can tend to be things that. Can attract our attention and, and ‘cause, they, they seem very like, you know, oh, we can get it right.And really make it scale. And then some people have right. It's possible. But 80/20, I think for a lot of people out there, like just, just, just focus on the fundamentals and you can go pretty far. And then as time comes, you can layer in the more, you know,Shamanth: 00:46:27Yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like I said, at a certain level of care, influencers, all of this becomes much, much more meaningful. and like I said, that's certainly more meaningful already. Yeah. You don't need too much. David: 00:46:42Well, I think that's a great place to wrap up. it was great chatting with you and yeah. lot of insight there on, on what's working and what, how to think about things in this, this new world of mobile marketing. you know, as we wrap up, is there any last thoughts to include links to, where people can find you on, on, on the web and to RocketShip HQ and whatnot.Anything else you want to add?Shamanth: 00:47:09No. Though, like I said, guess this not bad as it reported to be. They're raised to mitigate the worse-case scenarios, that helped me out, been able to share. so, hopefully they'll come out on the other side of all of this without too much craziness.Jacob: 00:47:35I think people are going to keep using apps. That's my, that's my prediction.David: 00:47:40And I think people are going to keep advertising apps. Shamanth: 00:47:43Yeah, yeah, It's the, how that's going to have to change and it has to change dramatically and there's no getting around that.David: 00:47:51Well, it was great chatting with you and, we'll talk again soon. Shamanth: 00:47:55Absolutely.Jacob: 00:47:57Thank you.David: 00:47:58Good bye.

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Alex Ross is the co-founder & CEO at Gregarious, Inc. Gregarious is the company behind Greg, an app dedicated to helping people grow healthier and happier plants. Greg's community has grown from 100 beta users in August 2020 to over 50,000 monthly active users today.Alex graduated from the University of California, Los Angeles, and studied data science and statistics at MIT. Alex has worked for companies such as Cisco, The Daily Aztec, and Cannon Trading.Prior to founding Gregarious, Alex spent 4 years as Director of Engineering at Tinder. Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year.In this episode, you'll learn: The two critical steps in making a successful app An ingenious strategy for partnering your app with retail companies Why you should involve your customers in content creation Links & Resources Tinder Enplug fitbod app Y Combinator (YC) Alex Ross' Links Greg app Alex's Twitter: @AreteRoss Job opportunities at Gregarious Alex's LinkedIn Gregarious, Inc. on LinkedIn Follow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingRevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCatSub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode TranscriptAlex: 00:00:00The two steps in making a successful app business are make something worth using, and then put it in front of the people who would use it.If you have a plant, and you don't know what to do with it, we solve that problem.So, what we did is we reached out to a bunch of plant retailers, “Hey, we will help your customers have a positive outcome with your product.”Can you put in our little QR code? And now when these retailers ship out a new plant, every single one of them has this little QR code in it.It led to our first 15,000 users, I'd say. David: 00:00:30Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. I'm your host, David Bernard. And with me as always, Jacob Eiting. Hello, Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:53Happy to be here. David: 00:00:55You sound incredibly happy.Jacob: 00:00:57It's great. It's a Friday, David. The sun is shining. They're grilling a bunch of chickens in my hometown. I got nothing to complain about. It's gonna be great.David: 00:01:05Our guest today is Alex Ross, founder and CEO at Gregarious, makers of Greg, an app to help you grow healthier and happier plants. Prior to founding Gregarious Alex spent four years as director of engineering at Tinder.Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year. Welcome to the podcast, Alex.Alex: 00:01:27Thank you guys. Good to see you. Thanks, David, Jacob.Jacob: 00:01:29Hi. David: 00:01:30So, I'm going to try really hard this whole podcast and not call you Greg, but I've made that mistake.Jacob: 00:01:36I was thinking like, I get like annoying company name questions. Sometimes. I'm like, I'm sure you get more worse than me.Alex: 00:01:43But I'm considering just legally adopting Greg as alias or something. Jacob: 00:01:48Yeah. You know, I mean, that's a news cycle right there. A little bit of earned PR. David: 00:01:55So I wanted to ask you, so obviously, you know, director of engineering at Tinder that's, I mean, what a rocket ship that must've been quite a wild ride. So, tell me a little bit about, about how you ended up at Tinder and then, you know, if you do have any fun, war stories from there, that'd be great to hear. Alex: 00:02:16Yeah, definitely. It was a rocket ship. Definitely some war stories, some wins, some losses. So, I came across Tinder and I was looking to get into like a consumer application. so I was interviewing with Uber and Twitter, and then I came across Tinder on an angel list. Actually the head of recruiting at the time reached out to me and I kind of took it on a whim.To be honest, I had not used the app before, before even interviewing or anything. that's kind of a challenge for Tinder is like, do you, how many of the teammates need to use Tinder? Because a lot of people are married and in relationships, and those are great people to have on the team. And so it makes it odd, and kind of difficult or complicated. But, basically I joined when it was around 70 people, if I recall. So, it was a pretty small team. There was already a global user base, so it was one of the scrappiest, global brands I think probably has ever existed. Because this was all right before Tinder or right around the time that Tinder launched its first monetization efforts.And so there wasn't really awareness as to like, great, there's this like large, global, many millions of people are using this thing, but is it going to make money? Right? That was still an open question at the time that I joined. So, yeah, basically I joined and it was very, it was definitely still a startup.And, so there was not a lot of structure and I think my manager changed on the first day, like the person I was talking about working with's desk changed, but I had a great time and basically I ended up creating the growth team. So I became very focused on, growing the international user base.One of the coolest things that that team did is we decoupled Tinder from Facebook. And this was from Facebook login because like Tinder came to, came to fame by having, you know, you tap one button, it imports your Facebook photos. It basically made online dating as easy as it possibly can be because like you push a button you're in and then you're dating.Right. And by making it that simple, it made it so you felt less than desperate by using it. I think it was like one of the important psychological dynamic, because if you feel like you have to work to start using that application, then maybe it means that like you aren't having as much success in dating in the real world.So, by making it simpler, it made it less stigmatized. More cool. Right? And so when we decided to then allow people to create accounts with a phone number that introduced all this complexity around like, well, are people going to want to do that? Then they have to add profile photos. They have to type in their name.You have to introduce an onboarding process. You have to worry about spam. So, in any case, my team led that decoupling of Facebook and Tinder, and this was like pre Cambridge Analytica, pre GDPR. So it was definitely pressure. And it was like, it was a lot of good foresight and it did lead. It was a very successful project.So, that was kind of what I cut my teeth on it Tinder. And then from there, I ended up creating the trust and safety team. So we then kind of took on anti-spam, which is a major problem for any global consumer or especially a brand that you're introducing people to each other. Like you're introducing strangers to each other.That is a spammer's dream.Jacob: 00:05:32There has got to be just so much abuse on Alex: 00:05:34So much, and it was all stuff. I agree. Yeah. 24 7. and so we ended up creating a team kind of bottoms up. This is a cool effort. Cause it wasn't like an executive side, like, oh, Tinder needs to needs to create this team. But rather. A collection of engineers that were very motivated to solve this problem.So, we created a trust and safety team again, before, before GDPR, like this was before the world was really focused on, privacy and data security and protect users. Very consciously.Jacob: 00:06:01It's it's interesting. Cause now, you know, even with like clubhouse recently have had issues here. I think now the expectation is you need trust and safety from day one, which even five or six years ago, wasn't really the case. It was kind of like, well, I'll just grow and then you'll solve it later.So, that was, I would say early days for even that concept of like a whole dedicated team to those, those, those aspects of, yeah. If you're meeting people in public mind, God, like you need good Alex: 00:06:28Real. Yeah. You really need to continuously try to protect people. Cause there are, there's a rare selection of people that are not great. Right. SoJacob: 00:06:36Yeah. David: 00:06:37So then, tell us a little bit about the transition from being a tender to founding a company, because you had founded companies before and plug, and been at, other large companies before Tinder, but Yeah. What, what led you to, to found Gregarious? Alex: 00:06:54Yeah. I actually saw Jacob and I shared an experience interning at Cisco systems. Is that right? Did you, yeah, Jacob: 00:07:01Wait, when were we at the same? Like onboarding. Alex: 00:07:04No, no. I was actually in the finance organization, so I was doing internal auditing. it was crazy. I was on a team that like investigated other people for like, you know, abusing their corporate cards and stuff like that. So there'd be likeJacob: 00:07:19Interesting. internally. Alex: 00:07:21Internally. yeah. it was a very, Jacob: 00:07:23We've had interns on that team. Alex: 00:07:27It was a unique, it was definitely the only inboard,Jacob: 00:07:29Yeah. Wow. I was testing, I was testing phones, so I'm actually not sure which one of those is more boring. I think actually you might've had me. So Alex: 00:07:38That's for sure. yeah, so I got exposure is Cisco is interesting for anybody who doesn't know cause you have to drive between meetings. Right? Cause the campus is so large. Jacob: 00:07:48Campus. Alex: 00:07:49Yeah, Yeah, Talk about, oh my gosh. Culture. Yeah, so the, the process leading up to, to starting Greg was very deliberate. because I had done a startup before and that company had gone to success a successful outcome, but it was a lot of hard work was honestly grueling.Definitely like, hardest challenge of my life. And so I knew that I wanted to be involved in starting a company and building a culture from the ground up again. but I knew that I wanted to do it differently. and so basically there was a lot of preparation thinking about really the main thing I was thinking about is what is the industry that I want to be working in, because I think that startups often don't go the way you expect.But you can learn so much. And so I was really thinking like, okay, what do I want to become an expert at? Right. Like what do I want, if it doesn't work out in the way we expect, what would I like to have learned four years, five years, seven years worth of information about.And, I really kept coming back to science. and I wanted to, to kind of use my engineering experience and pivot that into, more real world, like physical phenomenon. Right. And like learning how the universe works. David: 00:08:59That's amazing. Alex: 00:09:00And so that's really, a lot of the thesis of Greg is that we apply computer science and software engineering to this specific domain of how to plants work.Right. And, and basically the, the dots kind of connect looking backwards, but it was a process of discovery of like, what's an area that's emerging and like kind of changing, like where is there an opportunity, right. Because I think it's helpful to position yourself at a place where either you can cause change or this change already happened.And, right now, like a lot of people know there's climate change. and there's also a lot of, rapid things happening in plant science world, specifically around like CRISPR and plant genetics and stuff like that, really at the deep end of it, which we can get into, but it's like way deep. but, but basically, this was before the pandemic.So we were actually looking into plants before COVID and already there was like the rate of people bringing plants into their homes was growing by 50 to a hundred percent per year. And we wanted to validate like, Jacob: 00:10:03I really like, that seems like that seems like a thing that would be fairly stable, like, is it, is it, is it a, is it a generational trend, like millennials or younger folks being? I have a lot of people on Twitter. I follow that seem very interested in plants more than I've ever been. Alex: 00:10:20There's a couple converging trends. Yeah. I think that part of it it's associated to like the mental wellness movement. So it's kind of this trend line follows a one that's very similar to like meditation and yoga just five years later. So I think it's a very, it's a lot of adjacent interests there, but then there's also an aesthetic component to plants where like, people are kind of decorating their spaces and they're getting more like trendy in how they, you know, how they, even people who are eating, like you want to have like a space that you invite someone into and it's very nurturing.Right. so yeah, there was definitely a generational kind of tailwind already happening. And then COVID just like crammed that up. Right. Cause then everybody's on zoom and you look in the background, some people have plants and you're like, oh, that looks kind of nice. Like I'd like that.Jacob: 00:11:04I have this. I have, I still have this like barren white wall back here. That is embarrassing. Yeah, I need, that's why I was excited. I, I, I installed Greg today and I was disappointed. I couldn't buy the plants in the app yet. So we'll have to talk about that as we get a little Alex: 00:11:17That's something that is coming. That is the client segment. Yeah, definitely. yeah, so we kind of saw an opportunity and we did some due diligence, some interesting things I think, to identify like, is there a revenue opportunity in my favorite stat that I like to share that blew my mind when I learned it is home Depot, is a publicly traded company.So you can look up their, you know, annual statements and you can see how are they making money. And if you look up their statements, you'll see that they make more money on indoor garden than on any other product segment. Like home Depot sells lumber, paint appliances, all these other the Jacob: 00:11:54That's like, that's like actual revenues. Is that also margin con? Cause I would imagine these are high margin items as well, I would guess. Alex: 00:12:01Yeah. Depending on where you fall on them. But yeah, they're, they're, they're pretty hard margin. and no, we only looked at revenue, but they make like last night, like $11 billion per year in revenue. Which is, and, and they're like 10 or Jacob: 00:12:15Store, right? That's, one. Yeah. And there's like, every town has four of these. Alex: 00:12:19Exactly. Yeah. And home Depot is like 10 or 15% of the plant retail market. Probably. It's hard to estimate.Jacob: 00:12:26Okay. Yeah.So, it's like roughly like a hundred, a hundred billion dollar a year kind of thing in the US. Wow. That's it. That's the size of in-app subscriptions for anybody. Who's curious, like, roughly like in that ballpark.Alex: 00:12:39Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like Apple's app store, subscription Jacob: 00:12:42Oh yeah. Sorry, app store. It's not even subscriptions. I think that's the app store broadly. Yeah.Alex: 00:12:47So we combined the plant Tam with then the app store growth in subscription revenue. And there's our business model.Jacob: 00:12:56There you go. Did you, did you, I mean, yeah. You mentioned like wanting to get into something physical into something science related. Did you have like a passion for plants or was this something that is like deep in you or, or was it more like me and an app subscriptions, which is like, wow, this looks like a good thing I can work on and I actually care about it and know a little bit about it.Right. So how, how did it, how did you go? Like, Yeah.This is what I want to do. Alex: 00:13:17That's a great question. It was like 75% the ladder. So the same as you, where I was kind of, I got exposed to it cause I started getting plants and I realized I did like them, but there was no brand to guide me. And there was definitely no science to help me keep them alive. Right. but I, I grew up in the mountains and so like, I, I, my family, I lived in Mammoth Lakes, California for any of the listeners know where that is.And so I, you know, I, I went on like a solo backpacking trip, like shortly before starting all of this and kind of communed with like being in nature with no people around me. And maybe that put me in touch with the plans a little bit more. but it was mostly, kind of identifying, this is a realm of science I'd like to work in because plants are mostly.Physics-based, this is something a lot of people don't don't realize, but because they're stationary, you can almost view them as like, like a civil engineer would a bridge. so there's not, so you can kind of really think about like the water physics, the light physics. And so they're a really great vehicle for learning, just physics generally, and also how like the sun and earth orbit matters to that plant and that location.There's so much science there that we learned that there's a depth. That was, we were very interested in diving deeper intoJacob: 00:14:31Yeah. Not to mention, not to mentioned biology, right. Alex: 00:14:33There is, but Jacob: 00:14:34As an intersection, right? Yeah. Alex: 00:14:37Yeah. Biology is difficult though, right? Like if you're like an engineer, who's trying to approach it,Jacob: 00:14:41Right. Yeah. Alex: 00:14:42it's messy, you know, I Jacob: 00:14:44Yeah, exactly. Alex: 00:14:46Yeah, yeah,Jacob: 00:14:47But if you think about it, it was a closed system, right? Like yeah. You have it. It's potted, it's planted, you know, lumens in, you know, water in, you know, nutrients in, you can, yeah, you can, you can make some approximations, right. As we like. Alex: 00:15:02The closed system is really important. I can. so what Greg does is Greg predicts when a given plant is going to need to be watered. And that's like the super simple, like simplified functionality. It's one of the main things you need to know. And the way we figured that out talking about closed systems is kind of a fun fact. you can very accurately measure the amount of water that a plant loses by weighing it on one day and then weighing it the next day. And the change in weight is the water lost in grams. And it turns out, so what we did is we did that for like 700 plants for like six months. And we, we then graft what was the grams of water lost per plant per day?And you get this beautiful pattern. It's like it random, like this is a very clear, like almost a heartbeat of a plant, which is a great fit for like machine learning.Jacob: 00:15:56Yeah. So, so, so how did, how did you pull this off? Like practically, did you have like a big garage or warehouse or something like that? That's, that's more work than I usually do for software. So tell me what that process was. Alex: 00:16:09It definitely did. So at one point I had like 150 plants and they all had a plastic, little pots and I had like labels. I named them like a one through nine and then C one through whatever. Cause I had to keep track of it. Right. It's all in our progress database. And but that didn't scale. And so like me and my co-founders, we were all measuring every day, every single day, hundreds of plants, but that didn't scale.So then we went on Craigslist and we started saying like, Hey, we're looking for people to weigh their plants every day, twice per day for a couple of months. And we had hundreds of responses, like people, people care about their plants and they thought that it was cool to be doing like citizen science.Right. And so we ended up with people in Berlin and, and you know, Sydney.Jacob: 00:16:48All right. Cause it doesn't have to be local, right? Yeah. Alex: 00:16:51And actually it needs to be in like Southern hemisphere versus Northern hemisphere because the location of like the sun and solar radiation effects that. Yeah. So we needed a global distribution for sure.David: 00:17:01This is like way off topic for, for subscription apps. But, but if you, if you squint it's, there are a lot of similar problems in understanding user patterns and user life cycle. And like, there's so many hard to understand variables. Alex: 00:17:18Yeah, David: 00:17:18But one thing I'm curious about on the plant science, like how much does like humidity and other things play into that.So if you, if you have, you know, 40% humidity, one day and 60%, the next does that actually impact things. Alex: 00:17:31No humidity. We don't really need to model humidity very much. it's actually, there's a couple of things that are misconceptions. You don't really need to worry about missing or humidity and you don't need to worry about fertilizing. Like all of that is overdone. for the most part, like there's some cases where it, matters, but, I'd say for like 99 out of 100 plant types that you're likely to own doesn't matter.And even more people don't realize that the humidity reading that we see in the weather is what's called relative humidity. And it, it not actually like super scientific way to measure, like how the water in the air relates to a plant. You need to look at absolute humidity, the whole totally different calculation.There's basically relative humidity changes according to the temperature. And so I see as humidity, you can almost, and to be honest, like, ignore, except for a couple of plants, like really evolved to be in, like, you can picture it. you know, in England, like, United Kingdom, like BHAG, right. Where it's just so much water, like, okay, well does like some, some ferns like are from like the Pacific Northwest, like Washington area where it's like constant rain forest, those types of plans.Yeah. You're going to have a hard time if you're not, in a very human environment, but the vast majority of EBI don't have to worry about it.Jacob: 00:18:47I have, I have more questions on the plant physics, but I think, I think I will let, I will, I will have to like save my curiosity.David: 00:18:55Well, we'll have to do the, we'll have to jump on your podcast and talk, talk points. Jacob: 00:19:00Plant Club, just invite V2 to newbies on there. Just to ask questions. We'll be there. David: 00:19:05So from, from all of this, you, you started to alluded to it a bit, but one of the things I was really impressed talking to you a couple of months ago, was just how I'm vicious. Your plans are with Greg. So you're, you're kicking it off with a consumer subscription app. but tell me a little bit about like, where you want to go from there.Alex: 00:19:25Yeah, definitely. That's a part of like, going back to like how we started it, why we started it. I have seen, or like I've worked at companies and like not naming names that are very, very revenue focused. Like just purely prime directive is we just need to make coin and as much of it as possible. Right.And then the question is, well, if you get there, then what do you do? Because if you do accumulate a level of avenue and a lot of influence, you kind of inherit a social responsibility, right? Because like you're accumulating all these resources. If you're like a Facebook or an Instagram, I think there's like general consensus.Like you kind of need to think about the impact that you have. Cause you're too big to not think about it. Right. And so with Greg, like we really thought about if we manage to navigate this very challenging process of getting to scale. Well then what? Right. And our goal what's really interesting that people don't realize is that plants in our homes are just plants that were taken from various places in the world and put in our homes, right?Like there there's no such thing as a houseplant, it's actually just like a giant jungle tree that somebody took a cutting from and then transported it to England and then ended up the United States. Right. so the physical principles that govern, being able to predict how to keep those plants alive is, are the same as the physical principles required to predict how to keep like crops alive.Right. like plants that are grown for our food system of which there are like billions. Right. And those plants, like it turns out plants are really like an infrastructure piece of our planet, right? Like plants are our like big support system on spaceship earth. And it's kind of interesting. Jacob: 00:21:10It's, the, it's the first stage of catalyzing, the sun's resources, right? Like, Alex: 00:21:15That's exactly it. And a lot of people don't realize this, that basically all of life gets its energy from the sun. Like that is the input of all of energy into what we know as life, as you know, maybe there's more on other planets that works differently. But as far as we know, all of life depends on solar energy.Jacob: 00:21:31Yeah, Alex, you're leaving out some very, very, sensitive, bacteria that live by vents. Okay. That, that Alex: 00:21:40I love that you noticed.Jacob: 00:21:43I'm D I'm disappointed in myself that I can't think of what they're called. They're extremophiles some kind of, I Alex: 00:21:47Yeah. Jacob: 00:21:48All, it's all, it's all discovery documentaries, so Alex: 00:21:51There's a vanishingly small number of, like living things that, thrive on geothermal energy from the earth score. Right. But that's like less than like 1% as far as I know. What people don't realize as an example is that like plants. A lot of people think that plants are just taking things out of the ground that is sucking nutrients out, sucking water out. They're actually also putting things back into the ground at all times. And so plants, like, for example, they photosynthesize. So they take energy from the sun and they are the only thing on the planet that takes energy from the sun and then converts it into energy that all other life can use. And it's not only insects and birds and mammals like us, but plants are also depositing sugar into the soil.So it's a bi-directional flow and that sugar feeds the bacteria. Jacob: 00:22:38Is that an active process while they're alive? Is it, or is it during decomposition? Alex: 00:22:42No, that is an active process. Like plants are actively depositing sugar into the soil and that, that those sugars feed the bacteria and fungi and those bacteria and fungi are responsible for breaking down the, inorganic, nutrients like nitrogen into a format that plants can absorb because plants can't just like stop nitrogen.Now they depend on. Those organic, you know, facilitators. And so it's a very symbiotic relationship and there's growing awareness now that like having a quote unquote, living soil is crucial for our planet. And I'll tell you like an example of how, how much awareness there is around this. during my due diligence for Greg, I went to a plant genetics conference.This is like for any engineers in the call, like imagine like AWS reinvent, accepted the geneticists. Right. And so they're like presenting, like how they run their projects. And it's, it's a really cool parallel world, but half of this conference was dedicated to soil like microbiomes, because that's how important it is.It's like truly like a resource. It's an infrastructure for our spaceship earth. Right? David: 00:23:49That's amazing. So, so one of the things, yeah, you and I talked about was not just, you know, consumer subscription to then like funding science, which is kind of what you're talking about now, but then also the potential to take this from, from B2C to B2B. So like you have, nurturing these who have to manage the planets before the people buy ‘em.You have office buildings that have thousands of plants. You have, you know, commercial facilities like there's, you know, plants existed on so many different layers of are of, of, of use, So tell me a little bit about kind of the long and short term plans of potentially transitioning or not transitioning, but, but kind of building on top of what you've done for consumers to then expand into more B2B, use cases.Alex: 00:24:42Yeah, definitely. Some other examples. people don't realize that cities have to like municipalities have to maintain the plant inventories, right? Like there are people who manage the inventory of plants. Exists, you know, or there are small businesses. there are people in most towns, I grow food for their farmer's markets, for example.And so those are like smaller scale farmers and then there's large scale farmers, right? And there's a real dearth of like talented software teams, writing applications for any of those parties. And that's really the long-term opportunity to be spotted. If we can pull together a talented team to make products for those people, that's a longterm opportunity.And my, my thesis on this, which I think we're aligned on is that, like delightful, simple consumer user interfaces, like simple software is appreciated by everybody. Right? Jacob: 00:25:35Okay. Alex: 00:25:35like enterprises don't want to use complicated integrative Jacob: 00:25:40There's tastes now in software, right. And all levels of, employment. I think it's, it's a bit of like our gen my generation aging into the, the enterprise buying world. And, also just like people have enough software experiences in our lives. They've learned to discern like, oh, this is good.And, oh, this is bad. and I think there's, yeah, I think it's really, I mean, we I've, I've done it a ton in making revenue count. I came from the compute super subscription world. I learned a ton of lessons about onboarding and, and, and, and creating delightful experiences and like, you know, playing, playing against and into people's like, you know, habits and things like this that you carry into the enterprise world or B2B world, and it can really supercharge software.And it's probably what we're going to see. Yeah. I think. I think there's still, there's always this like technical leap or not technical in the sense of computers, but technical in the sense of processes and whatnot, when you leap from consumer to, to selling to businesses. But as you said, you bring those teams together, you, you build your data set, you learn more about Alex: 00:26:45Right, Jacob: 00:26:46Act of growing plants, then someday you, you, you can, you Alex: 00:26:49Right. And there are some, some famous examples of this. I definitely see it with RevenueCat. Cause like you compare the UI to a SAS that was created 10 years ago and it's just more of delightful. Right. It's like simple. And I know to use it. I'm not like getting a headache while I'm on it, but it's nice.Right?Jacob: 00:27:05It's very nice. Very nice of you to say Alex: 00:27:07Yeah. Bye-bye But, but like some examples like strike became famous, right? Because like they had a good Jacob: 00:27:14Same. Yeah, yeah. Say my mindset. Right. Just like, make it easy, make it simple, make the, make the shortest possible path to value. Right. Alex: 00:27:25Or, slack would be another example. Right. Whereas it was almost a consumer level application that just took off like wildfire because individuals liked it. Right. Jacob: 00:27:34And then they added enterprise grid, whatever they have now, or whatever to sell it to, to, to Alex: 00:27:39And then nothing is things, Jacob: 00:27:41Need that to begin with.Alex: 00:27:42Right? David: 00:27:43Yeah. So it's just, it's really cool that there's, there's just such a direct path from selling to consumers right now, and then selling to municipalities who are managing their plants in a few years, and then selling to, you know, the, the company should have to manage this at scale and then selling to farmers.That's really cool. One of the things that, again, that you're not talking about, you and I talked for like two hours a couple of months ago. And so there's, there's so much that I would, I would've loved to have recorded that and released it as a podcast. But, Jacob: 00:28:20Glad I can glad I can contribute. David: 00:28:23Yeah, one of the, one of the fascinating things that you talked about was kind of your view on marketing. And so I'd love for you to talk about that more broadly, but then specifically what you're doing with nurseries is just such incredibly smart marketing. Like, I mean, it, let me say tangent for a minute.So it's just so obvious talking to you that you're not the average like app founder, you know, like none of my apps have had even, even like when, when hundredth of the due diligence and market Jacob: 00:28:55Why I was gonna say, I've never, I've never bought some, like, I've never had a physical warehouse of plantsDavid: 00:29:02Yeah. and so it's just, it's just so clear that you, you think about things in a way that, that most, you know, at people don't most software people don't most even founders don't. and, and so I think, you know, we've talked about this on the podcast before, is it just so many apps are trapped in this?You know, we just, we have to advertise on Facebook to grow. We have to do this. And like that clay book, I've just, you know, dumping money, a bunch of money in ads, I think leave so much on the table. And so I just love that you're, you're going to do that. And that we've talked about that, you know, you've got to do paid marketing and, and maybe I've already started experimenting with it, but, but yeah.So tell me about what you're doing with nurseries and then just kind of, you know, some of your thoughts on, on marketing and virality and stuff. Alex: 00:29:51Yeah, definitely. I think broadly, like what I would, I think I'm definitely aligned with that where, your broader point is that like building an app is half technical and UI design and getting the product really, really, really right. Right. But the other half that people are often uncomfortable about is needing to get it in front of the right people.Right. And so in my mind, the way I break this down is the two steps. Like I have a theory that like the two steps in making a successful app business are make thumping worth using, and then put it in front of the people who would use it. Right. And it's like remarkably hard to do either one of those, but, Once we had, the beginning signs of retention.So we got our first, like, I don't know, 5,000 users by like posting on Facebook and on Reddit and like that kind of stuff. Then we started thinking about, what is like the most optimal time for people to be introduced to grade. And what we came up with is, well, we solved the problem of, if you have a plant and you don't know what to do with it, how to keep it alive, we solve that problem.And so the most natural moment would be when you get a new plant, right. Because it's like, that's a moment. And you're like, oh crap, I have this thing. What do I, how do I keep it alive? And, so what we did is we reached out to a bunch of, plant retailers, like online in-person brick and mortar all over the place.And we basically said like, Hey, we will help your customers have a positive outcome with your product. Right. And so let's do this trade where like, we will give them. at this point we had a subscription tier. And so we said, we'll give them free subscription tier for N number of months. At first it was six.And now it's three. and in return, can you put in our little QR code flyer, like nicely designed four inches by four inches recycled paper card that has a QR code and it takes you to download. Great. Right. And so we did that and now like when these retailers ship out a new plant, every single one of them has this little QR code in it.And it's almost like a digital companion to your unboxing experience. Right. And so that was definitely like a very natural fit and it, it led to our first, probably like 10 or 20,000, 15,000 users, I'd say.Jacob: 00:32:10So can I ask, like, did you do that yourself? Did you have somebody on your team? Cause like, yeah. I'm, I'm in the camp that that's outside of my experience. I don't like calling the pizza person. Like I, you know, I, I don't know how to do that. So how, how did you, how did you delegate that and, and Alex: 00:32:24Yeah. Jacob: 00:32:24The resources and a small team to pull that off. Alex: 00:32:27Definitely. so I I'd say I provided the, the oomph behind it. but then I have a good friend, who I've worked with in the past named Colin, who does like growth marketing stuff and that's his comfort zone. Right. And so I definitely did reach out to a bunch of the biggest partners in the beginning.Because the thing is that like with early stage stuff, founder led sales can be great, right? Like you don't always need it. It's better if you don't need it to be Frank. but, we were so early and we had no partners at all that I was like, I ha this is crucial for us. Like, we need to have a better source of user acquisition.That's like our next major challenge to solve. And so I did reach out to them and then call in kind of like took over and scaled that. Right. Cause like, I, I ultimately like I needed to be writing code and stuff. and so now he owns that relationship and he's been able to keep that going further.Jacob: 00:33:22Yeah, it's just one of these unique channels. you know, I don't know, you can, as a, B to C app founder, I think David's points exactly on, I think we've a lot of us have settled into this world where there's one or two channels to like get growth and that's paid, paid marketing.There's a lot of good, growth resources out there. oh yeah, there's a lot of good growth books. I've read, moving into the B2B world that say there's like seven channels or whatever. There's only like so many like ways to get and in and in, and in B to C we tend to be like, well, yeah, there's these two, essentially, but it's not really true.Like you can try seven, I guess the trick is finding stuff that two things, one is approachable. Like, that's why I asked about you. How did you make it happen? Well, you were able to start it off and then you had somebody to work with you to, to, to bring it to scale. But then the other thing is it has to move the needle. Right. And so, and so you have to figure out and like for a price that's reasonable, right? And, and that sometimes is hard to find as well. Because I think with this, you have this adjacent high velocity market of users. You have a place, your users are going every day, which isn't maybe always the case for all apps.Right. It's hard to find there's no meditation store that people are going to day. Right. Alex: 00:34:33Yeah. I thought about this. Jacob: 00:34:34That's your, that's your advantage? You know?Alex: 00:34:37I thought about parallels. Like I wonder if like fitness apps have tried partnering with gyms. I'm thinking like fit. Jacob: 00:34:44I'm sure the gyms wouldn't be as eager maybe. Right? Alex: 00:34:48Well, I mean, possibly I'm just thinking like, if, if like, Jacob: 00:34:51This also like there's also this like benefit right from the, for the Alex: 00:34:54There has to be. Yeah, yeah. But I would just, I just like theory, graph, like I'm thinking if there's an app That helps you track your workouts. Like I use football, I'm a user, it's a great app and, and it's a complete compliment or a gym. Like I can't do gym without, I can't do football about gym. I don't really do gym about that.So, I, there might be a thing there, or like with meditation, I'd be curious if, like yoga studios. Cause here's the thing is Jacob: 00:35:21Find the adjacencies right. Alex: 00:35:22Yeah. And so here's the thing about a mobile app business that I have found is that one of our strengths is that we're building an audience, right? Like mobile apps only really work with retention.And so you're like building up this audience of people that are committed to your app and your brand over time. And these smaller businesses are looking for ways to get audiences. Right? And so in the scale of a mobile app is such that you might actually be able to accumulate an audience that is valuable to those small businesses.That can be a part of that trade. And so we've actually talked about that with our partners where we basically say like, well, you're referring users to us. We can refer users back to you. And our scale is large enough that it could actually be a meaningful number. so I think you can kind of get, it's definitely a B2B strategy where it's like, I'm thinking of the strategic value I can provide to my partners in return for them providing value.Which might be why it's less common in the, in the B2C, like mobile app world, right.David: 00:36:16Yeah. Any other, experiments that you've done or kind of things that you're working on in the, in the marketing realm that you've seen fail or things that are being successful right now Alex: 00:36:27We really want to tap peer to peer referrals and that has not been easy. And so that, that is one Jacob: 00:36:33Have you seen, have you seen the new store kit to stuff? Alex: 00:36:36Not Jacob: 00:36:36Yeah, they did. This is, I don't know when this is going to go out, but they, they dropped in, in, in the dub DC, this, this, this week they announced there's a new API. That's going to make that kind of possible. Now you'll be able to, you'll be able to like extend somebody else's subscription, based on some sort of like action. I think I, I, I don't know if they made it as like, for extending, for like a customer support use case. So there might be a case maybe Apple's like, no, we didn't want you to use it for incentivized referrals, but it could Alex: 00:37:09Yeah, Jacob: 00:37:09Make incentivize referrals work and like a really smooth way. Sorry, I'll derail. But, Alex: 00:37:14I love it. Jacob: 00:37:15It's, kind of a change.Alex: 00:37:17Well, it's probably useful to listeners. we have definitely hacked around incentivizes invites using promotionals that will say RevenueCat has been helpful.Jacob: 00:37:26Oh, so, and so you guys are, you guys are pushing folks, but they have to go through like this, like a user-driven process, right? Alex: 00:37:33They do. Yeah.Jacob: 00:37:34Is friction.Alex: 00:37:35It's friction. It has been fine, but it's not quite as productive as we like. So that one. Jacob: 00:37:39Have a lot of users that get confused about the process. I would imagine. Alex: 00:37:42Yeah. And it's like a deep Linky thing. So it's like not super transparent. the thing that's worked better, the one that I'm most excited about is I love this one. we, created, user generated content loops. so, basically people, there are certain things you can do in our app that like publish web pages on the web.And so for us very specifically, People like Greg, we don't have a database of like every plant in the world yet. Right. There's like 400,000. It's really complicated. And like, that's actually, one of our core IP is, is developing that database. And the only way we can do it is if we allow users to contribute to it.Right. and we need to be like a crowd source, like model and we get really good at curation so people can create new species in Gregg. And then we curate that and then we publish that page on the web and then it starts showing up in Google search traffic for other people searching for information about that species.Right. And so I love the theory of this and like check back in, in a year to see how it turns out. But I love the thing. Because it's like, okay, a user publishes a web page, which then more users find our app through. So then they join the app and then they publish more webpages. And then so more users find the app and then they publish more web pages.Right. And so it's like a very like positive reinforcement loop. And I think those types of recursive positive reinforcing user growth loops can lead to very healthy, growth curves, right?Jacob: 00:39:08Yeah. I mean, that's the, the challenge of these apps. You said it with retention is the big thing. I think you, you you're you're you're you've got some tables. Keeping a plant alive plants live a long time. Therefore, hopefully your app gets used a long time, but then, finding these things that can take what is inherently like a decaying process, which is people leaving your app and turning it into something more stable, which is how you build this, like yeah.Long-term business. And then, you know, for, in your case, like use this as a platform to move into other segments and whatnot. but, but but moving away, from this, like get them in, monetize them, let them go. Right. Model, which like, it seems just like the whole world is pointing us against right. With, with the way that ad tracking is getting less easy to do and all this stuff.Alex: 00:39:54Yeah. Jacob: 00:39:54So I was gonna say SEO, that's one of the seven good channels. Right. So you've hit at least three, Alex: 00:40:01Do end up dependent on, on Google. AndJacob: 00:40:05It's something can change in Alex: 00:40:06Yeah, Jacob: 00:40:07Or. Alex: 00:40:07But like I've been wanting, I've been watching SEO for a while and I think that generally, as long as you're not doing shady things, you don't have to worry about much. Right, Jacob: 00:40:16Content that people click on and find useful it will work. Right? Like, but when I did our blogs for revenue cat, initially the ones that got really good traffic for us kind of got us off the ground. Like I didn't, I didn't think, like I thought a little bit like, oh, what are people going to Google?Whatever. But no, I was just like, I'll just make plus that people will read and spend time on and share. And like that's all it took. And you'll find the posts that some of the posts that I did that were intentionally like, I'm trying to be like, SEO smart. Didn't do that. Well, the ones where they were just really good posts and like contained a lot of really good content and get referenced a lot. Those are the ones that still generate traffic for us. So like, which is nice because you don't have to be like an SEO master anymore. You can kind of just make good stuff and do Alex: 00:40:56Yeah. Jacob: 00:40:56Things. Yeah, David: 00:40:57Yeah, I was going to ask, I think we talked about this, but have you, have you done some paid marketing and how's that gone for you? Alex: 00:41:05Yeah, definitely. We did use paid marketing to like, scale up, by like a two X factor. So did that add a little bit of extra? And, so we've been running on Instagram and Facebook, and it's been pretty productive to the point where it's almost NetSpend zero. it's like we spend a dollar in advertising and then we make a dollar in revenue.We're still very early. And so we haven't had enough months. Like the, the, the pain point is if you do a trial. It's actually a much longer, payback period or like what finance people would call a float. And then a lot of people expect, because let's say you have, we're generous. We have a 30 day trial, which is like a bit much for a mobile app, but we do it.And so 30 days, and then the user subscribes, and then you get paid and then apple will pay you a month later. Right. So you actually end up with like up to a 90 day float. and so that's not as tight as I would like hope for, but it's better than nothing. And I think that's the key is that like, because we're a revenue generating app we're able to do the ad spend in like a reasonable way.I think if that weren't the case, then it'd be very difficult.David: 00:42:12Yeah. And, and at some point, I mean, with, with your other strategies of referrals, of SEO, of building a base of users, that then you can get more and more partners, you know? So, so if you went to home Depot, 10 million active users, then that's a much more attractive proposition to them. so at some point, you know, spending at a loss might actually make sense, but it's amazing that the subscription, model enables you to even spend break even, but keep that flywheel going, which is it's.That's incredible.Alex: 00:42:52And I think the NetSpend break, even that creates an interesting exercise because then it's like, it becomes, we didn't get into like financing, but like if you fundraise That's then a good reason to fundraise because then if you have more capital, you can put that capital to work. Because if you know, you'll make, if you have a dollar, now you'll have a dollar again in 90 days, as long as you can carry that float.Well, then at the end of 90 days you have a dollar and a user Jacob: 00:43:17Yeah, which is like, has, has value, right? Like you've increased the value of your user base has adult, you know, dollar per user active value essentially in the venture market or revalue reevaluate. Right. So, it, it does make sense. So yeah, I w I want to ask, like, You guys, it seems like your apps pretty developed for how long you've been working on it a year and change.Right. and you mentioned, you mentioned this, like finding iterating to like a retention goal. Like how did that go? Did you start with just like the basic function, like the most basic thing and then add stuff until you got, and what, what I guess specifically, like what metric were you looking at to say like, okay, retention is good now. Alex: 00:43:58Hmm. Yeah, that's a great question. So we did start with the most basic core functionality, and I think one of the things that we did that I would do again, We just solved our own problem. So like I, so we, we started at the beginning of COVID, so like New York where I live, locked down basically the day, almost the day that I left Tinder.Right. And so and so I remember I'll never forget things were shutting down. So I ran to the nursery nearby plant nursery, and I bought like 30 plants. Cause I was like, I need to have the problem in order to be deeply motivated to solve it. Right. Cause like, if you actually have like over 10 plants, keeping track of them kind of socks a little bit, it's hard.And so I knew that I needed the problem and that motivated us and, and our whole team really, we basically just wrote like a prototype app to solve our own problem. and once it was working for us is when we started bringing like beta users in, we did like a test flight, version for a month brought in like maybe a thousand or I think it was 2000 beta users total and there in like August, 2020.And. Jacob: 00:44:59Did you, how did you get that list for the beta? Just Facebook and Alex: 00:45:04Facebook. It was, it was mostly Facebook like groups and stuff like that. Jacob: 00:45:07Mm. Alex: 00:45:08Yeah. and it posted on Reddit. Reddit is hard. but, we did a little bit Jacob: 00:45:15Rip off middlemen made easy. That's my favorite. We posted, I posted right. It was where we launched two and I have this, this favorite hater quote that I have like screenshot it on my desktop that I will hold on to until we IPO. Alex: 00:45:27The hater codes or something people should be prepared for, I think,Jacob: 00:45:30Yeah. Alex: 00:45:32But let's see. So we solved that. Here's the key is that we specifically, for our app, we wanted to solve the retention piece first. And so he chose the behavior in the app that would be associated with retention because the way that I personally think about retention is that right.What happens is you have a trigger. So a person needs an external trigger to think about opening your app. Right? So it could be a feeling that they have like Tinder, it's a feeling I'm bored or I'm lonely. And I want to see people, and that's an external trigger that causes a person to think about your app.Then you need value to them to actually open your app. Right? Like, okay, I have this trigger in this app can adjust that trip. Sure. So for us, we didn't have like an emotion, but we did have, the need for reminders. And so basically we, leveraged push indicator very heavily. Our whole app is like a water reminder app right now that's the core value.And so we built that specific functionality, water reminders before anything else, because we wanted to validate, is that a sticky behavior? Is that something that people will actually want to do and use over like six months? Right. And because we knew we wanted to get six months of data, we had to build it first.Right. Because you have to really think about how long it's going to take to get that validation. and we were bootstrapped. And so we knew that like, well, we can't bootstrap for forever. Right. And so we needed to front load the questions that we knew investors would be asking when we went out to fundraise.David: 00:46:57So speaking of which you just raised $5.4 million seed round, how, tell us about the process. It sounds like you were, you know, having been at Tinder and been in Silicon valley and in the industry, that was your goal that you didn't come into it thinking you were going to bootstrap this forever. and you were specifically kind of building up some of those retention numbers and other things that you knew investors would ask for.So, how did fundraising go having kind of iterated into that direction? Alex: 00:47:35It's definitely hard as hell. I don't know, like you don't ever say that it's not. but it wasn't, it wasn't like excruciating. I think recruiting is actually probably a little bit more difficult, especially right now. There's a lot of, a lot of movement in the, in the why people are working, how they wantJacob: 00:47:51It's easier. It's easier. to write a check than it is to take a job. I think, you know, like to give it to somebody to do, do Alex: 00:47:57You can write multiple checks. Right?Jacob: 00:47:58Yeah. It's not your, it's not your every day, you Alex: 00:48:02Exactly. Yeah. So, let's see. We actually, to go back to your first point, we weren't, completely, we hadn't decided that we were definitely going to raise VC capital. and so there was like, like we did work through that as a team and we ended up deciding, various specifically. Our mission is one that we believe would benefit from us being good at raising capital, because we think that if we can bring capital and talent to this industry and this problem domain, that's a good thing.And then even from a life perspective, like we wanted, we want to move quick, we want to be able to grow. You want to be able to like, build delightful things for lots of people. and so that was, that was the main motivation behind the VC capital. I think it's a big trade-off. so we, we definitely did not take it lightly and we did deeply evaluate Jacob: 00:48:49Closes, off a lot of paths, Alex: 00:48:51It does. Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:52You kind of really narrows what your future, I mean, Alex: 00:48:55Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:55You on a trajectory to something potentially much, much bigger, but it Alex: 00:48:58Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:59Of like brings down your, your options. Alex: 00:49:02It does. Yeah. And I think you just have to think about like, am I okay with needing to focus on eventually providing an exit to these people who trusted with their capital, right. Yeah. And I think maybe something that people don't think about is like the CEO, whoever is fundraising. Like you, you build a relationship with your, your, your VC partners, right?Like I consider them like life journey partners at this point. And so it's not that like, it's certainly not an adversarial relationship. It's more like I have a true responsibility to these people because we had a clear, like, this is the agreement is like capital and then they have obligation to their investors too.And so, you know, I'm aligned with that and I think you're right. You just have to think about like, is that, is that aligned with my vision for this, this journey, right. David: 00:49:45And then speaking of, of an exit, you shared with me, you have a very unique approach to employee equity. I'm actually curious to hear at, Jacob's take on this, having gone through the whole thing, himself, but Yeah. Tell us about your equity structure. Alex: 00:50:05Yeah. We, we definitely are, experimenting and trying something different and I think there's pros and cons.Jacob: 00:50:12Investors love that, by the way. I'm sure those were easy conversations. Alex: 00:50:17Surprisingly most investors were, were okay with it. I definitely had a couple that were concerned about, the implications in the medium term, but here I'll get to what it is. So, yeah. Okay. So basically, like we, wanted to distribute as much of the financial ownership of the company across as many of the early teammates as we could.And the reason for that is like the real thought that I had that whether or not other people think about this kind of thing, I would, I would encourage people to ask the best, which is, if I have an exit, how big of an exit would I really want to feel very fortunate about. Right. And like, really think about like how much money do I actually need.Right. Because I think that there's a lot of people who get caught up with like, I want a billion dollars, right. Or like, I want like a hundred million dollars. I've been fortunate enough. Like we pointed out earlier, my first company was acquired for like a fine amount and then Tinder totally exploded. I didn't own as much of it, but it is still a positive outcome.And I can say that like they didn't change anything. And I know it's a very cliche thing to say, but I think it's a productive exercise that if anybody was founding a company, I would recommend asking, at what point am I again, feeling fortunate about the outcome, right? And then what we really thought about is our ability to recruit a great team.And basically the decision that we made is that, there's really two aspects to equity. and I'd be curious again, Jacob's take on this there's there's compensation for risk. So early teammates take more risks, quote unquote. Right? And so that, that's a typical, like reason for, founders taking a large, large Jacob: 00:51:52Costs risk mostly. Right. But Alex: 00:51:54Opportunity cost and risk.And then the other dimension that I think about is. Where, early stage companies are hard for everybody who's involved. And my prior experience pointed towards like the first 20 people who joined the company, or at least definitely 10 or 15, all worked, pretty much as hard. And definitely at least not like 10, it's impossible to work 10 times harder. Right. And so, Jacob: 00:52:19And with less M with less glory, to be honest, Alex: 00:52:22With less boring. Yeah, Jacob: 00:52:23Don't, they don't get all the likes on follows on Twitter or whatever. Right. Alex: 00:52:27Exactly.Jacob: 00:52:28Try to distribute it, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a grindy place to be for sure. Alex: 00:52:33Not getting the glory is like a, it's definitely a double edged sword because I think that that glory is also a responsibility. Right. But, yeah. And so basically we decided to try this approach where we wanted to do this exercise of distributing that equity as equally as possible. And so he set up a mathematical curve where whenever I make an offer, I just look at this math equation.What is the amount of equity that this next person gets. Right. and, and so, and we did that and basically projected out like, okay, each person gets to like, like if we reached a billion dollar company, each teammate should have an outcome of something like $10 million or more, right. Like something, something above that number.And it was really important to map that out because otherwise it can go forward. And, yeah, basically that, that was our exercise. I mean, basically they decided like, okay, can we, can we turn that around a little bit? And, the side effect that I like, so again, we're, we're early in this, like, we're, we're an eight person team we're in a 15 and it may turn out to be complicated.And again, we check in in a year, but what I like about it is it, did enable a completely transparent cap table. Right. And that's nice. Cause like, I don't think it's like maybe required, but I do like being able to show people like this is who owns this Jacob: 00:53:50Who owns with you? Right? Alex: 00:53:53Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's a positive side effect.But there's definitely it's complicated.Jacob: 00:54:00Yeah, I well, so David, my take is actually we do something very similar that's I like also like, so interestingly and, and inside, inside baseball, I think, it it's it's we, we did, something similar. No, we weren't as scientific with it for the first, like we had like a rough rule, but it was like the same, like X, each number, like the number like decreased, like, but this backoff curve, I've found it a very, it's a very hard problem to reason about, because you want, you want to think about this, you want the hundredth employee to have some skin in the game.Right. But you, you need to balance that with like, Hey, like come join this company that you've never heard of. And like probably has like worst benefits and you know, who knows it's going to be, it's going to be a mess. Right. And so like, finding that balance is really hard. and, and, you know, Looking at where we're at 30 people now, and the complexity definitely grows. And then I think also you start thinking about like recruiting leverage and like, what, you know, what, how much equity do I need to offer to be able to like, recruit these different types of roles and things like that. And your systems get more complex, but, but, but it's still, did you guys, did you do something special on special on founder equity to create like more, more room on the cap table?Or did you ha how many co-founders do you have?Alex: 00:55:11That's such a blurry line. I don't know if this is just me by name or no, like, well, is that the fourth person? Like, I mean,Jacob: 00:55:18I guess that's true. yeah. Alex: 00:55:20Yeah. Jacob: 00:55:21A, maybe that's a, it's a YC thing is where they're like very clear, like who are the co-founders and who are not But, but yeah, I, I agree. It's probably mostly a, a label.Alex: 00:55:32I feel like we have six co-founders. realistically there were, there were two of us that were like, thinking about this, you know, like that's not true. There were three of us that were thinking about this, like two years ago. so we, I, I called them co-founders and so we're all on this same plans.Like we have this graph where like, I am the first black. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, It's Jacob: 00:55:51Interesting. Alex: 00:55:53Like as much as possible. And so the hardest, this plan is definitely hardest on the first three people and it requires incredible cultural buy-in to that because it means that the outcome, like, I, I definitely worked on this for a lot longer than like the people who are joining today.Right. And like, it was stressful and hard, but here's, here's my, my, my personal take. And, is that I actually think the risk of doing startups and I feel like YC, you may agree with us. The risk of doing startups is like so much lower than most people realize for people who have the fortune of having a safety net.Right? Like if you're, if you, if you have a family and you don't have savings, then like, of course that is a, that is a risky proposition. for people who are relatively early or mid stage in their careers and they have savings and they're not actually gonna end up in a really dangerous spot, then I think that startups are almost always a net positive.If you really apply yourself, because the amount that you learn and grow by solving that many problems, only accelerates your career. Right. And so going back to the risk versus there's also opportunity costs, and then there's effort. I personally discount the risk for people who are fortunate enough to have that safe space.I discount that risk almost to zero, because I think that it's just such a, even this time around for me, my second startup, I have learned so much and it's been such a good life experience that even if it didn't work out tomorrow, net win. For sure. Sure.Jacob: 00:57:17Yeah. David: 00:57:18So part of the reason I brought it up was that I, when I joined and I've told Dick at this, when I joined revenue, this is way inside baseball. Goodness a open, an open enough on the podcast. But when I joined Romney, I thought more along the lines of you, Alex. Like I thought, well, why is Jacob getting so much more of the company and, and revenue Katz, like the first 10 employees and then the next 20 it's actually, it's very generous compared to the industry, like take a, did an incredible job and has been great with equity.So, but, but early on you, you're at a startup and you're like, wow, I'm working really hard. He's working really hard. Like why, why, why is the outcome going to be so different? But honestly, 18 months in and Jacob having raised a series B and like taking a lot of the hardship, like you as a founder are going to have to do things and be under amount of stress.And like, there, there really is. And I, I don't, it's probably somewhat true for maybe those, you know, those first early employees, how carry a little bit of that load, but the F but a founder just has to carry a different load. And so. Jacob: 00:58:29It's always going to fall on that first two, you know, whatever people on the cap table. Right. Whatever it's going to keep rolling until it hits you at some point. And, you know, as it gets bigger. yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't know. It's an, it's an interesting, this could very easily devolve into like the nature of capitalism and ownership.Right. Because it doesn't, it plays very much against this, like, you know, constant, like Marxists debate about like labor versus capital and like, what are the value and what is like value and like, cause you know, you like, you had this whatever period it was one month, one year or whatever. That's like such, you know, if you

Disciple Up # 217 Should We All Be Iconoclasts? By Louie Marsh, 6-30-2021     icon·​o·​clast | ī-ˈkä-nə-ˌklast  Definition of iconoclast 1: a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions 2: a person who destroys religious images or opposes their veneration   Synonyms: bohemian, boho, counterculturist, deviant, enfant terrible, free spirit, heretic, individualist, lone ranger, lone wolf, loner, maverick, nonconformer, nonconformist   Antonyms: conformer, conformist   For the Meaning of Iconoclast, Break It Down   Iconoclast is a word that often shows up on vocabulary lists and College Board tests. How will you remember the meaning of this vocabulary-boosting term? If you already know the word icon, you're halfway there. An icon is a picture that represents something. The most common icons today are those little images on our computers and smartphones that represent a program or function, but in the still-recent past, the most common icons were religious images. Icon comes from the Greek eikōn, which is from eikenai, meaning "to resemble." Iconoclast comes to us by way of Medieval Latin from Middle Greek eikonoklastēs, which joins eikōn with a form of the word klan, meaning "to break." Iconoclast literally means "image destroyer."   First Known Use of iconoclast in English 1641, as an icon destroyer.   Article on this: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/neil-seeman/iconoclast-genius_b_4116396.html   https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-88/great-iconoclast.html   Joy asked Lewis to autograph her copy of his book, The Great Divorce. He wrote, "There are three images in my mind which I must continually forsake and replace by better ones: the false image of God, the false image of my neighbours, and the false image of myself. C. S. Lewis 30 December 1952 (from an unwritten chapter on Iconoclasm)."   Lewis was saying that spiritual growth is iconoclastic because it constantly breaks our idols and replaces them with something better.   Iconoclast in Church History:   https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/iconoclasm   Iconoclasm (Eikonoklasmos, “Image-breaking”) is the name of the heresy that in the eighth and ninth centuries disturbed the peace of the Eastern Church, caused the last of the many breaches with Rome that prepared the way for the schism of Photius, and was echoed on a smaller scale in the Frankish kingdom in the West. The story in the East is divided into two separate persecutions of the Catholics, at the end of each of which stands the figure of an image-worshipping Empress (Irene and Theodora).   Luther & the Iconoclasts: https://lutheranreformation.org/history/luther-and-the-iconoclasts/   Was Jesus an Iconoclast?   “13The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. 15And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. 16And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.” 17His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.” 18So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:13–22, ESV)   “1On a Sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. 2But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?” 3And Jesus answered them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?” 5And he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”” (Luke 6:1–5, ESV)   What About the apostles?   “9For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,” (1 Thessalonians 1:9, ESV)   “16Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. 18Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” 21Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. 22So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.” (Acts 17:16–25, ESV)   “15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. 17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.” (Galatians 2:15–21, ESV)   What happens when you tear something down without a plan to replace with something better?   What needs to be smashed today?   What are the idols (icons) in the church today that to be challenged and removed? Remember I'm speaking largely metaphorically, not about physical idols.   Some say the denominations, like the Southern Baptists for example, need to deal with issues of racism in their history more and are even introducing parts of Critical Race Theory to do so?   Is it even possible to follow Jesus and not be an iconoclast to one degree or another?   What idols in our culture need confronting?   CRT? PC speech and action codes? Gender issues? Sexual morality in general?  

Pre-order Michele's book on talking to customers! https://deployempathy.com/order Michele Hansen  00:00Welcome back to Software Social. This episode is sponsored by Fathom Analytics. Fathom is trusted by thousands of businesses to power their privacy-first website analytics like GitHub, FastMail, Buffer, Tailwind, and so many amazing small businesses, too. For the longest time, website analytics offer was seriously bad.  It was hard to understand, time consuming to use, and worse, and exploited visitor data for big tech to profit. Fathom is website analytics without compromise, easy to use, respectful of digital privacy, and fully compliant with GDPR. Plus, Fathom's script loads faster than Google Analytics, meaning it's better for SEO. With Fathom, you can see all of your visitors, not just half, because they've pioneered the method to bypass ad blockers without invading privacy. Fathom also doesn't chase venture capital or need investors. Like my company, Geocodio, they are customer-funded, and customers are the only folks they answer to. Try a free seven day trial or check out Fathom at UseFathom.com/ssp.  Michele HansenSo, the other day, I totaled up how much I have made from my book so far, and all the expenses.  Colleen Schnettler  01:19Okay.  Michele Hansen  01:20So, as of that point, $1363 in presales, which is just, like, the number of copies times 29. That's not my actual payouts. It's just, like, the gross revenue.  Colleen Schnettler  01:34Okay.  Michele Hansen  01:34And then, so the expenses. So, first one, for the formatting, I have to use the software called Vellum, which is $250. I had to buy ISBNs, like, the little, like, numbers on the back of the book that identify it.  Colleen Schnettler  01:49Yeah. Michele Hansen  01:50So, and I had to, you can either buy one, or like 10, and since I'm going to do an audio book, you need an ISBN for that, and like, a hardcover needs zone ISBN. And so anyway, that was $295. A barcode is $25. Proofreading $800, which is a lot of money, but I feel like that's the price of like, not being embarrassed that it's full of typos and you know, I feel like if I want to, like, have a book that, like, a manager could buy for their team, or like, people would recommend to their clients, like, it has to be professional.  And so having, like, professional proofreading is the cost of that. Colleen Schnettler  02:24Yeah.  I didn't know that was something. I didn't know that was a thing. Michele Hansen  02:30Yeah. Yeah, I spent, I think last week I mentioned how I was fighting with Grammarly a lot, and,  Colleen Schnettler  02:35Yeah.  Michele Hansen  02:36I just, I was like, I have spent like, two days fighting with Grammarly, just trying to get it to work, and like, and I was like, this is just, my time is more expensive than this. Colleen Schnettler  02:47Yeah. Michele Hansen  02:47So, I'm just gonna hire a proofreader.  Colleen Schnettler  02:50Good choice. Michele Hansen  02:50And then, of course, you know, don't include hundreds of hours of my time over the last couple of months. But, so, the total for expenses so far is $1370. Colleen Schnettler  03:01That's wonderful. Michele Hansen  03:02So, when you deduct $1363 minus $1370.  Colleen Schnettler  03:11Oh. Michele Hansen  03:12You get negative seven. Colleen Schnettler  03:16Yeah, I see. I misunderstood what you were saying. Got it. So you're in the hole seven bucks and hundreds of hours of your time. Michele Hansen  03:25Yes. Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  03:26Alright. Well, good thing it;s a labor of love. Michele Hansen  03:28So, I looked at that number, though, and I just had this moment where I was like, holy, forking shirtballs, like, I need to market this thing.  Colleen Schnettler  03:39Yeah.  Michele Hansen  03:40Umm, and actually, so like, I sold another two since then. So now, I am actually at positive $51.  Colleen Schnettler  03:51Whoo.  Michele Hansen  03:52Yeah, whoo. Umm, and of course, you know, we're only like, only in presale, and like, a ton of people have today said they want the hardcover or they want the audio book. So they haven't, they haven't purchased it yet, or they just simply want the finished version. Umm, But yeah, that was kind of a wake up call for me that, like, I've been, you know, we talked about with Sean like, I, like marketing a info product feels very different for me than marketing a SaaS.  Colleen Schnettler  04:19Yes. Michele Hansen  04:19And also requires a lot more self-promotion, which I'm not comfortable with. Like, it makes me like, deeply uncomfortable to like, reach out to people and be like, hey, like, would you consider, like, you know, reviewing my book like, or, you know, can I be on your podcast and, like, talk, like, it makes me super uncomfortable. Umm so, so but I got to do it because like, negative $7, man, for like, four months worth of work is, you know, basically half of my time the last four months, certainly, last two months, has been on this book. And so I feel like I owe it to myself just for that, like, time to like, sell the gosh darn thing. Colleen Schnettler  05:07Definitely. Michele Hansen  05:09Yeah. So I like spent, you know, this week I was kind of working on, you know, like, I went through all of the newsletter issues and I, like, put in a link at the top to, like, buy the book because I've noticed that people are sharing the scripts around. Like, I can see the analytics that they're getting shared in people's Slack channels, or, you know, Trello, or Asana, which is a good sign that those maybe have some staying power. So, and just kind of thinking through a little bit more, a little bit more of the marketing and trying to arrange, you know, yeah, podcasts and stuff, but I gotta, I gotta market this thing. Colleen Schnettler  05:52Yeah, didn't Alex, who promoted his book on our podcast, didn't he do, like, 20 or 30 podcasts? Michele Hansen  06:00Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  06:01And how many have you done? Michele Hansen  06:04Um, I, well,  Colleen Schnettler  06:07I already know the answer. Michele Hansen  06:09Well, I mean this one. I mean, I was on a couple recently where I talked about the newsletter. Like, I was on, I, yeah. Like, I was on the Get the Audience podcast, and I was on the Learn Neto podcast as well. But like, the book wasn't out yet. So those weren't really, Colleen Schnettler  06:37Right, you didn't have anything to sell at that time.  Michele Hansen  06:39Yeah, it was just the newsletter. Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  06:40A good goal for you would be to try to book 15, you know, and get yourself as a guest on 15 to 20 podcasts to promote your book, because you can sell it now. Right? Even though it's not completely done. Michele Hansen  06:52Yeah. Yeah, I guess I guess. Yeah. I'm like scheduling one for the middle of July, like, so I'm currently, my goal is to publish it on July 2, but I like, I really hope that happens. But there may be like, you know, some people may need more time to, like, write reviews, and, like, making a cover and everything. So, it should be out by early July. Colleen Schnettler  07:20You're, when you say, I don't know. You mean the book?  Michele Hansen  07:22Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  07:22I am little confused about what you're saying. Michele Hansen  07:23 Yeah. So like, upload it to Amazon, and people can buy a physical copy. Colleen Schnettler  07:28Yes. Michele Hansen  07:29So I don't think I'm quite there yet. Like, exactly like, and I think there's some things that I'm just saying aren't going to happen for, like, this first version, like, a friend of mine, who is a UX research expert was reading it, and there's a couple places she's like, this would be a really great table. This would be great as a graphic. And I'm like, yes, it would be but I have zero faculty for visual communication, and that is not going to happen right now. Like, that can like happen when my brain has the space to like, think that through, but it is, it is not happening right now. But yeah, I guess I guess I should say, I guess that, I don't even know where to start. Colleen Schnettler  08:13No no, Let's go like straight Nike style here.  Michele Hansen  08:15Nike style? Colleen Schnettler  08:16What is it, just do it? Just do it. That's my challenge for you. I'm not going to talk to you for a couple weeks because I'm about to embark on my epic road trip. So, my challenge for you is to reach out to, find and reach out to 25 podcast hosts that you think, Michele Hansen  08:34Good Lord. Colleen Schnettler  08:34And they're not all going to say yes, which is like, hey, man. I know. Michele Hansen  08:37I'm sitting here being like, Colleen, and I really struggle with self promotion. And even, you know, one person was hard for me and you're like, go do it 25 more times.  Colleen Schnettler  08:4525 times. I love that idea. Michele Hansen  08:46Coach Colleen says 25 more reps. So not fair. Colleen Schnettler  08:50Yes. So, that's what my challenge for you is, is to reach out, Michele Hansen  08:54 How about five?  Colleen Schnettler  08:57Really? I'm not impressed with your five. Michele Hansen  09:00I feel like everybody, I feel like everybody like, needs this person standing on their shoulder that's like, I will write one landing page this month. And you're just there. They're like, really?  Colleen Schnettler  09:11Really? That's the best you can do? Michele Hansen  09:13That's, like, that's it, you know? Wait, like, why are you here?  Colleen Schnettler  09:18You should try and, I don't know, just ask, ask one of our prominent friends who is a book author, Alex comes to mind again, how many podcasts he went on?  Michele Hansen  09:27Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  09:28And try to hit that number. I mean, it's game time girl. Like, you wrote the book. You did the hard work,nd now it's a whole new set of hard work that you have to do because you're right, like, this is a brilliant book. You don't want it to languish because, no one's ever heard of it. Michele Hansen  09:43I didn't say it was brilliant. You said it was brilliant. Colleen Schnettler  09:46Well, here you go. It's brilliant. it's needed. It's gonna be amazing. So, I think you need to like, get in gear. Michele Hansen  09:54Yeah, I, yeah. Okay. I guess, I have to go, well, if you are listening and you want to promote me, then help me. Colleen Schnettler  10:06Maybe what we can do is we can, I have an idea. Okay, plan. So, just put a tweet out and ask everyone for their favorite business podcast. I bet you'll get a list of at least 30. And then you can just, Michele Hansen  10:17Yeah, I guess, yeah, like, but like it has to be for SaaS, for example, because like, Planet Money isn't gonna have me on. Colleen Schnettler  10:25Right, right. I meant yeah, SaaS podcast. I mean, there's enough of them that do podcasts similar to ours.  Michele Hansen  10:31Make the internet do my research for me.  Colleen Schnettler  10:34Yes, there we go. Harness the power of the internet. Michele Hansen  10:41So if you see a tweet from the Software Social Account soon about your favorite business SaaS podcast, now you know why.  Colleen Schnettler  10:50The secret's out. Michele Hansen  10:52Yeah, the secret is out. Okay. Well, I will, I will try to book myself on some, some podcasts. I guess, I guess there's other ways I could promote it, too. Like, I could go on, like, Tiktok or, Colleen Schnettler  11:12No.  Michele Hansen  11:14No, we will not do that. For those listening at home, I think Colleen just spit out her coffee. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have some marketing to do. Colleen Schnettler  11:34Yes. Michele Hansen  11:36Yeah. I think I have like, I've literally sent I think one email, maybe two. No, yeah, one email that mentioned that the presale was live, which basically goes against every best practice, like, some like, someone sent me some advice the other day, and they're like, send at least three emails a day on your like, launch days. I was like, okay, I've sent like, one in the last two weeks, and I sent out my newsletter the other day, and I actually forgot to include a link to the presale. So, I need to, like, Colleen Schnettler  12:06You know what, suggestion.  Michele Hansen  12:07Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  12:07This is really cool. So do you know the Wes Bos is?  He's, like, a famous JavaScript instructor. I bought like, all of his courses. But what he does is, he does, when he has a new product to launch, he does send a lot of emails, but he actually segments his emails. And to be fair, his list is probably like 30,000 people. But he segments his email, so you can unsubscribe just from the product launch emails, which I love, because I'm like, oh, I don't care about this product launch, or I already bought that, and then I can still continue to get all the normal newsletter emails. I mean, don't stress yourself out.  Michele Hansen  12:10Yeah. Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  12:14But it's an idea. It's an idea. Michele Hansen  12:20Yeah, I'm only using review at this point for, so, I don't, like, I don't even have like, ConvertKit or anything.  Colleen Schnettler  12:50Okay, set up. Michele Hansen  12:51Set up, so I, I don't, I probably should do that, but I haven't really,  Colleen Schnettler  13:00Okay, so I think podcast.  I'm still in editing, like, get it out the door mode, because there's still other like, launch stuff. Like, I have to like register the ISBN and like, I need to go through the whole process with Amazon of like, making sure all that's like, setup.  Michele Hansen  13:19So, that feels like a July task. Colleen Schnettler  13:24July task. That's fine. It's halfway to July. It's almost July. So, Michele Hansen  13:30Yeah, so I, maybe I should, like, make a spreadsheet of all the different things and, like, have a goal for those. Colleen Schnettler  13:39I'm, I'm a big fan of measurable goals, right? Like, so, so I'm team, you know, write it down, keep a spreadsheet, keep track of it. Not that I've executed so well on my goals, right? It's easy for me to sit here and tell you what to do. It's way harder when it's you telling me what to do. So, you know,  Michele Hansen  13:57Well isn't there, there's some business axiom about like, it's not like, like, like, achieving the exact goal is not important. It's the fact that you create one and then work towards it that matters. Like, there's somebody who has said something to that effect much more articulately than just said, but you know, it's like just you set the goal and then you go off on a journey to get there and you may end up somewhere else, but like, you have, you're at least doing something. Colleen Schnettler  14:23Right? You're making forward progress. Michele Hansen  14:25Yeah, and I should probably have a revenue goal, too. Like,  Colleen Schnettler  14:29So, okay. Michele Hansen  14:29Even though I don't want one, I should, I guess. Colleen Schnettler  14:32Okay, I'm gonna get off topic, and I don't want to get too far off topic. But, so I'm a really big fan of, like, famous sports coaches, like,  Michele Hansen  14:42Okay. Colleen Schnettler  14:43Like, this is, like, a thing. Like, I love reading biographies of like John Wooden and all these other really successful sports coaches. And one of my favorite takeaways from all of this information that I've osmosed is you cannot control the outcome, right? You can only control your effort and your attitude, which is why revenue goals are not very actionable. Because a revenue goal, like, you actually can't control that. What you can control is your attitude, right? How you approach the problem, and your effort, and how hard you work, and by aligning all of these steps in terms of effort and attitude, the revenue will come. But to set a goal, like, like, in the, you know, the basketball metaphors, like when the NCAA championships, you can't actually control that. You can just control how prepared you are, and your mindset when you attack the problem. Michele Hansen  15:40Oh, that makes sense. Colleen Schnettler  15:43I know that's, like, totally off topic, but I just read about it. And I'm like, Michele Hansen  15:48Yeah, so it's, so to what you were saying, like your goal of 25 podcast episodes. And, and rather than having a goal of say, you know, I don't know, like, $5,000, for example. Instead having it be like, be on 25 podcasts over the next six months to a year, about it, not including this one, because if we include all the episodes of this show then I'm like, totally hitting that, but I assume we're not. Um, and, you know, so like, being on a specific number of podcasts, or something else. I don't know, guest talks or something. Um, yeah, like picking like, specific actions that I can do that's like your equivalent. Like, it's like, write a landing page, right? Like, like, all these, like, things that are actions that I know are accretive towards,  Colleen Schnettler  16:51Right. That's the idea. Michele Hansen  16:52Good outcomes, but like, I fundamentally don't have that much control over how much I actually sell. Like, I can keep my ears out for things that might sell like, you know, for example, I'm gonna sell templates, too, for $19 that are like, Notion templates of all the scripts and it occurred to me earlier, like the, the How to Talk So People Will Talk section like, people seem to really love that. And I was like, that could maybe be its own, like, mini book for like, $10. It's like, just like, so you want, like, you know, you, you want to get information out of people, and you want them to think you're like, trustworthy and you want to, you know, learn how to, like listen actively, then, a mini book or something, like there's other stuff I could do. Colleen Schnettler  17:36Right, I guess all of my points, all of that that you just described, that's effort, right? Those are things you do. You ultimately can't control your revenue, but it'll get there if you put the effort in. That's the idea. Michele Hansen  17:46But like, I if I set the goal of like, be the, I don't know, New York Times number one bestseller or whatever, like, I have zero control over that. It's also not realistic. And it's not it, in some ways it's like, de-motivating there have a goal that is not clearly achievable.  Colleen Schnettler  18:07Exactly. Michele Hansen  18:07But being on 25 podcast is not like, like, that's like, those are very nebulous goals, because it's unclear what will lead to that.  Colleen Schnettler  18:17Yeah. Exactly. Michele Hansen  18:17But being on 20 Live podcast in six months is concrete. And I ostensibly have control over that. Colleen Schnettler  18:26Yes. Nice. Michele Hansen  18:28Wow. So, it sounds like you are doing like a lot of like, business reading lately. Colleen Schnettler  18:38Yeah, um, not a ton. So I do have a couple audio books queued up for my drive that I'm excited about, business ebooks, Obviously Awesome is one that I've been wanting to listen to and I have purchased but I have not yet. This one I just really liked. This one was about, like I said, some of the famous coaches. First of all, I'm a sucker for sports movies, but, but I really liked that idea that ultimately you, you can't control, like, if you're going to win, but you can control all of the aspects of your journey, like how much time you put in, how much effort you put in, like, what your mindset is, you could, those are all things that you know, you can control. And as you know, for like, it feels like for a couple months now I've been struggling to move the product forward. Like, the product is doing well. I hit $1300 MRR.  Michele Hansen  19:28Nice. Colleen Schnettler  19:28Which is, yeah, I mean, it's great.  Michele Hansen  19:30Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  19:30I'm really happy with it. But it, I feel a little bit stuck. I feel, and I don't know if it's, I feel stuck because I haven't had the time, or if I feel stuck because I'm actually stuck. Like, I can't figure out if I feel stuck because if I, if I, let's say I gave myself a week and I just worked every day on it if I would get myself out of that kind of rut, or if there's really no rut to get out of and this is just the nature of the product. That it's just a slow burn, which is fine. I mean, it's going well, like I'm not complaining, I know some people can't, you know, haven't hit this milestone, especially not as quickly as I did. But, um, so there's that. So, I think what I want to do is I want to make a bigger push on content. Because I really haven't, I really don't have any content out there. So that's something I'm going to try and spend some time on, and like, there's just some things about the product that I want to keep iterating on, and I want to make better. Michele Hansen  20:36I mean, we were just talking about goals and the, sort of how difficult it is to have a monetary goal because you don't have control over it. And it's, it's awesome, first of all that, I mean, to have $1300 MRR means that, I mean, a month or two ago, we're talking about how you're hitting 1000. That means that like, that's, the thing, the thing about revenue for a subscription business is that revenue happens every month, like, this revenue that I have from the book, that happened once, and that's not going to happen again. But yours, people are paying you. So it's not just that you have made $1300 like, you, that is compounding and adding on top of each other. But I am sort of curious, like, there has to be some number or range in your head where you're like, I can stop consulting now. Or I can, you know, somebody offers me a full time job and I can just like, turn it down without even thinking about. Like, there has to be some number for you. Colleen Schnettler  21:38Absolutely. And I think like, and, and, absolutely. And I mean, I'm in this for the money. Like, just to be clear, that makes some people really uncomfortable. I don't know if they're not used to women saying that or what, but like, when I tell people that they get a little uncomfortable. Michele Hansen  21:53It's like, your job, like, Colleen Schnettler  21:55Yeah, like, I want to make more money.  Michele Hansen  21:56Like, of course everybody is in their job for the money. Like, yes, I'm doing this book as like, a passion project and like, which leads me to make all sorts of decisions that are confusing to people who prioritize money, like, but like you, understandably, are prioritizing money, because this is your job. And if this doesn't work out, then you know, Colleen Schnettler  22:17I gotta go get a real one. Michele Hansen  22:18I mean tons more consulting, or like, getting, getting a paycheck job is what you have to do. Like, this is not, Colleen Schnettler  22:25Yeah, so.  Michele Hansen  22:27Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  22:28I mean, the thing I love about owning your own business is the possibilities are infinite, right? Like, I mean, I, from a personal perspective, you know, if I could get to 10k, that would be like, Oh, my gosh, I cannot, that would be, I'd be over the moon, right?  Michele Hansen  22:45So that's the number. Colleen Schnettler  22:47The number would be 10k. But, you know, why can't I have a couple million dollars a year in revenue? Like, I want a business. Michele Hansen  22:53 Why can't you have a million dollars?  Colleen Schnettler  22:56I mean, I want a business. Like, if I hit 10k and stay there forever, like, I probably would be a little frustrated. Like, to me, the whole point of having your own business is the possibilities are, in, you know, infinite. And like, one of the things I've been able to do with my modest income, is I've been able to hire two people to help write content for me. And yeah, hired someone else.  Michele Hansen  23:23Oh, you're, wait.  Colleen Schnettler  23:25And, yeah, man, I'm crazy over here. I'm just, dollar bills.  Michele Hansen  23:28Dude, and I'm like, 7 years into this and I like, just hired, like, a part time VA, like, three months ago. Colleen Schnettler  23:34Yeah, yeah. I feel like you're doing it wrong. But that's a different issue. Michele Hansen  23:37Probably. I'm doing it my way, okay.  Colleen Schnettler  23:40That's right. So, and the thing I love about that is, I, with, with the people that I'm paying, I've been able to, you know, people who are kind of writing anyway, now I can pay them to write, it seems like such a win-win. Like, I feel like I'm, it's good for them and it's good for me. And it's something I really love. So like, ultimately, I would love to build this into, like, you know, a really successful business and hire a person and, and, and be able to have created this environment where I can work with who I want and buy my beach house and all that. I mean, I'm big on the beach house if I haven't mentioned that a few times already. Michele Hansen  24:25So the first, like, the first big goal, which I think it'll be fun to reevaluate this a year from now, is like 10k basically. Colleen Schnettler  24:36Yeah. I mean, Michele Hansen  24:36To get you to 10k revenue and then to like, the big, big goal is buy Colleen a beach house. Colleen Schnettler  24:43Buy Colleen a beach house. Yeah. But to me 10k, and I don't know if I have, and I'm still, I feel like I'm in that messy middle phase. Like, I hit 1k, which makes it feel like it's a real thing. Like it's, it's legit, but I don't know if I'm in, I feel like there's a, going from zero to 1k is different than going from 1k to 10k. Right? It's a factor of 10 more. Like it's a big, you feel like going from zero to 1k is one milestone and one to 10 is your next milestone. But one to 10 is way more than zero to one, right? So, I honestly don't know if I'm positioned correctly with this product to get there. Michele Hansen  25:26Which is why you're reading Obviously Awesome. Colleen Schnettler  25:28Which is why I'm reading Obviously, Obviously Awesome. I just, I just don't know, if I'm in the right space, there's so much opportunity. I was talking to a founder recently and he talked about how he pivoted his company and moved into a totally different space, and they started growing, like they were kind of stagnant for a while, and then they kind of made this pivot, moved into a new space and their growth exploded. So, I definitely think there's a spot for me, I just don't know what it is, and I just don't know, it feels like a lot. Like the other thing that, that I wanted to just kind of bring up is when people talk about how to grow in your business. They talk about, like, building the product, as if it's this static thing that takes you like two weeks, and like writing good software is hard. And, it's a constantly evolving process. So it's something that constantly needs my you know, my attention, and that's not bad. I just feel like, you know, it's hard to balance, as most people who listen to this who are working and building a product know, it's just hard to balance all of those competing desires. So I just don't know if I have a, I guess the truth is, I don't know if I have a product that's going to get me to 10k. Like, I don't know, I don't know where it is right now. It's that product. Michele Hansen  26:52I mean, thinking back to where we were like I don't, I don't have our numbers in front of me, so I don't remember them exactly. But like, the thing that really made our revenue jump was not adding any one particular feature or one particular marketing thing. It was a pricing change, because we like, so we started out, I think we were like $31 our first month. And then I don't know, like, maybe maybe $100 the next month, and then like $400 the next month, and then in May of 2014, we had someone who needed, like, a crazy volume of usage every single day. And the only way we could make that work was basically to give them their own server. And we looked around and see what, you know, big companies were charging for these sort of really high volume, like, plans and we're, and I think we we figured out like, the cheapest one was like 10,000 a year, for, that was still like rate limited, I think to 100,000 a day, but we're like, okay, we can do like basically Unlimited, up to like 5 million a day for you for $750 a month, which worked out to 9000 a year. And adding that plan, which was like, slightly different feature-wise, but like it wasn't it wasn't like adding a feature to the API, but it was like a pricing feature, and a new plan, adding that one plan and then, like, we didn't think anyone else would ever take it, and then people started taking it. Like, that is what caused our revenue to really grow. And so I wonder if there's some space for like, you know, pricing evolution here. And like maybe there's some other way of packaging your products with the existing features in a way that's at a higher price point. But I don't like, I don't know why that is. Colleen Schnettler  28:44So I do. Michele Hansen  28:44 It's your business, like, so.  Colleen Schnettler  28:46Yeah. Michele Hansen  28:46But like, I think it's worth thinking about, like, the pricing aspects of, of this. Colleen Schnettler  28:50Yeah, well, and one of the things I do is my app has a lot more power that I'm exposing at the moment. So, I think the answer for example, like, I think I limit your file size to 50MBs, there's no reason I have to do that, like I don't, you know, there's there's a couple things someone reached out to me and told me that his company has a setup now where their customers upload files, like up to a gig(GB) through Upload Care, and then they, but they move them off the Upload Care servers, because it's so expensive, or it's a whole thing. I'm talking to him, I'm gonna, you know, have I have an interview scheduled with him to better understand Michele Hansen  29:26Whoo. Colleen Schnettler  29:26I know. Michele Hansen  29:27Music to my ears.  Colleen Schnettler  29:30But I, you know, so my point is, there's the two things that I'm not doing, I think I've might have mentioned this last week, is multiple file uploads, which I can do. I'm doing it for one client, special, and large files. So it might just be that I'm not quite positioned properly yet.  Michele Hansen  29:46Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  29:46In terms of I've really kept, I've kept a lot of that functionality close to the chest for no particular reason, just because I didn't want to like, release all the features at once and overwhelm everyone like, oh my goodness, but since I can't do those things, it seems like re, kind of revisiting, revisiting some of those options would probably be a good move for me.  Michele Hansen  30:09Yeah, I think it's really smart that you're, like you're doing a big road trip. So you're, and you're going to be listening to this book in the car, right? Colleen Schnettler  30:19Yes, ma'am. Michele Hansen  30:20Like, I find that we do our best like, business thinking on road trips, like, I, maybe it's because, you know, you like, you, you can't be doing anything else, like, you are literally stuck there. Colleen Schnettler  30:34Right. You're stuck. Michele Hansen  30:34And like, and I can't be looking at my phone in the car, otherwise, I'm going to get carsick. And, of course, it's the two of us and like, like, our go to for road trips is like, how I built this. So we end up like, really like, coming up with stuff on on, like, you know, I have, like, emailed myself of, like, conversations we've had on road trips. And so of course, it'll only be you. But, you know, those times when, like, the kids are sleeping in the back or whatever, and you can't have the audio book on and thinking all these things through, like, I think it'll be really good thinking time for yourself. And but remember to like, take notes every day on what it is that you think about. Colleen Schnettler  31:17Oh. That's a good point. I should bring a notebook. That's a really good point. Michele Hansen  31:20Like, a notebook or even just like, record a voice memo for yourself or whatever, if that's easier, just like, something so you don't, like, because there are times when when we've had like, an amazing conversation on a road trip, and then I didn't write it down. And then like, you know, a week later, we're back and we're like, oh, my God, like, what was that like, an amazing thing. And like I had this whole, like, like pre COVID, we were on a road trip. And I had this whole idea of like, our content strategy built around, like really unique address data. Like, for example, in South Carolina, there's three, there's like four towns called Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland, all right next to each other, like, I was gonna, like, write about all of these, like, odd location, address things, and I came up with this great name for it on the road trip, and then I like, I still cannot remember what that name was, so take notes. Colleen Schnettler  32:09Yeah, I totally, I totally hear you. I know exactly what you're saying. I think that's a great idea. I think I have a lot of thinking to do. You know, I kind of feel like it was really exciting in the beginning when I was trying to launch the product. And then it's really exciting. And then everything is very, very exciting. And then you hit your first milestone, and then it's kind of like, oh, but now there's another milestone, okay, so I never really win.  Michele Hansen  32:32Right. The goalpost just moves. Colleen Schnettler  32:34The goalpost continuously moves. So it's interesting to me, I mean, I have a lot to think about is like, is this a product that can get me to 10k? How do I, and how do I get there? Right? Like, what is what do I need to do to get there? As I just said, when I was giving you my little pep talk, like it's putting in the work, I mean, you know, it's not going to sell itself. So yeah, I'm ready to really, really give it some time to think about it on my epic journey. Michele Hansen  33:01Alright, well, on, on that note, I guess we should just sort of make a quick programming note that Colleen will be away for the next two weeks. And so we will, we will be leading on that social side of Software Social and have some guests coming up that I'm super excited about. And then I will be away the following week, so Colleen is gonna have a guest on, and then we will both be like, basically a month from now. Colleen Schnettler  33:34Oh my gosh. I won't talk to you for a month. Michele Hansen  33:35Wow. That feels so weird.  Colleen Schnettler  33:37Oh, gracious. That's sad. Michele Hansen  33:45I mean, you'll text me roadtrip updates. Colleen Schnettler  33:45Obviously. Michele Hansen  33:46Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  33:46Obviously, I'm so excited to see, like, cactuses, by the way.  Michele Hansen  33:52Yeah? Colleen Schnettler  33:52In Arizona. Yeah. I'm so excited to see the great American West. Michele Hansen  33:55I've heard Arizona is, like, gorgeous. Colleen Schnettler  33:57Yeah, I'm super pumped to see a big cactus. Anyway. Michele Hansen  34:00Oh, I've been there. I was okay, whatever. We're gonna stop here for today. Colleen Schnettler  34:07Wrap it up. Michele Hansen  34:11I'll talk to you next week.

In this episode we discuss plane discounts - are used Airbus A330s a viable plane in today's market? The Hermeus team is trying to get a Mach 5 plane to market within five years, and is working with the Air Force on a Mach 5 Air Force One - is this realistic? Plus, Vertical Aerospace is going public with a SPAC merger, and has taken on a significant number of orders lately - are they surging ahead in the EVTOL race, despite no flight demonstrations to date? Learn more about Weather Guard StrikeTape segmented lightning diverters and aircraft lightning protection consulting services. Follow the show on YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit us on the web. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! TRANSCRIPT EP58 - Hermeus Mach 5 a Reality? Vertical Aerospace Orders Surge and Are Used Planes a Thing? 0:00This episode is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech at Weather Guard. We support design engineers and make lightning protection easy. You're listening to the stroke podcast. I'm Dan Blewett. 0:18I'm Allen Hall. 0:19And here on struck we talk about everything aviation, aerospace engineering and lightning protection. Alright, welcome back to the struck aerospace engineering podcast. I'm your co host, Dan Blewett. On today's episode, we're going to talk about used planes, how long do they last? And what's the market like for older Airbus and Boeing aircraft? And is this going to hurt their sales of new aircraft, and our engineering segment we'll talk about Hermeus. They are looking to create a Mach 5 aircraft and they are working in conjunction with the Air Force to develop the next Air Force One Mach addition. So we'll talk about some of the engineering challenges that will come out of them. And then there are a VTOL segment lots on Vertical Aerospace today, which they've been in the news quite a bit. 2 billion worth of orders from Avalon, which entails quite a bit of quite a lot that gets 500 plane orders. American Airlines has also put an order for 250 planes, Virgin Atlantic 150. So there's a lot going on here. And it looks like they're gonna go public with SPAC merger. So lots in the in the news about Vertical Aerospace, and they admittedly have a beautiful looking prototype. I'm into it. But we'll see what Alan has to say. So first, Alan, let's chat about USD plane. So especially popular right now is the Airbus a 330, with smaller airlines who want to save money or startups, and they can be reduced, sometimes up to close to 50% of their sticker price. What are like what's the deal with the a 330? And why is it so it's such an attractive use plane and what what kind of routes can the a 330 fly? 2:07Well, it's a bigger airplane. So it's a twin aisle airplane. So it's it's made for longer haul routes. Similar to what like a triple seven would do. And the but that airplane is much older in terms of when it was developed. The problem with anything as twin owl right now is that there's not a lot of long route flights going on anywhere in the world. Forget about you know, United States, Europe is really hard you still now so there's there's just a depressed market. There's a lot of airplanes, twin, all airplanes that are parked right now. And obviously, the newest ones are going to retain most of their value, but the older ones are gonna have a hard time especially older designs are gonna have a hard time maintaining their value through this just because they're older designs, you can buy a new one for also a discounted or newer one for a discounted price. Why wouldn't I do that? You totally what. And I think a lot of times in these down situations and COVID has been one big downer for the airline industry, airplane models just disappear for the most part or they are they shift where their main focus is they get because they're just less expensive to operate, they can be operated by a lot of airlines that couldn't otherwise afford them. And so you'll you'll see,

Pre-order Michele's book! deployempathy.com/order/Michele Hansen  00:00Welcome back to Software Social. This episode is sponsored by the website monitoring tool, Oh Dear. Oh Dear does everything they can to help you avoid downtime like scheduled task monitoring, SSL certificate expiration notifications and more. But downtime happens. When it does, it's how you communicate in times of crisis that make the difference. Oh Dear makes it easy to keep your customers up to date during critical times. You can sign up for a 10 day free trial with no credit card required at OhDear.app. Colleen Schnettler  00:35So Michele, do you have a,  Michele Hansen  00:38Hey,  Colleen Schnettler  00:38Good morning. Do you have a numbers update for us on your book? Michele Hansen  00:43I do. So my presale went live about a week and a half ago, when our episode with Sean went live. That was my deadline. And, I've sold 43 copies right now. Yeah, it's kind of exciting. Um, it's not all people I know, which is exciting. Colleen Schnettler  01:06That's very exciting. Michele Hansen  01:08I love how supportive people have been. And it also, it makes me, it's just reassuring that people I don't know are buying it. But yeah, so that puts it right now, just, and this is just the raw, you know, number of times $29, which is $1,247. Colleen Schnettler  01:30That's amazing. Congratulations. Michele Hansen  01:33Yeah. Thank you. And I got my first payout yesterday, which after, like, taxes, and everything else, was $912. Colleen Schnettler  01:41Wow. Michele Hansen  01:42Which was kind of exciting, and gives me a little bit of budget to work with, with, like, you know, hiring a proofreader, and using some, like, layout tools, but, you know, so I was pulling these numbers, and because, you know, everybody loves numbers and whatnot. And I was thinking about it. So, so I got this, this message from someone yesterday, who had started reading the book, and it was actually someone I don't know. And if I can just kind of read what they, what they said. Colleen Schnettler  02:25Yes, please.Michele Hansen  02:26And so I had a personal aha moment reading distinction between sympathetic, empathetic and solution based responses. My sympathetic conclusion based responses are leaving no space for empathetic, something I need to address. I'm an engineer and an architect by trade, and I'm looking to do a better job interviewing the humans attached to our work. But I'm also thinking about your book from the sense that a better balance of empathy will help me be a better teammate as well. And, like, getting that was so moving for me because it made me think about how, you know, I'm not writing this book for the money. Like, yes, the book needs to make money, because I've been working on it for four months now and have, you know, there's a lot of time I haven't spent working on Geocodio. Oh, like, I've been a pretty bad Geocodio employee the past couple of months, like, full honesty, right? So like, I have to, like, it has to have been, you know, worth my time. But like, I am not, I'm not motivated by that, like, I am motivated by this, by like, you know, like, I have this like, secret dream goal. Well, I mean, it's not a secret cuz I've, like, tweeted about it, but like, whatever. You know, Mathias sometimes says to me, he's like, I know you were thinking about something because you tweeted about it. And I'm like, oh, I forgot to, like, verbalize that. Anyway, um, I have this dream that through the process of learning this for interviewing, and, like, product development and marketing reasons, people will understand how to be more empathetic and use that in their daily lives. Like, everyone has a capacity for empathy. Everybody can learn it, not everybody is taught it or shown it so they don't really learn it. But everyone has a capacity for it. And, but also, like, very few people, you know, put like, be more empathetic, like, learn how to learn how to use empathy, like on their to do list every day. But they put write a landing page, get more customers, build a feature, like, reply to all of those customers and intercom like, those are the things that end up on a to do list. And so I have this like, kind of, I don't know, like, naive dream that like people will read this and apply these skills to the things they're already doing, but in doing so, learn how to be more empathetic in their daily life or you know, as a as a team member or whatnot. And just getting this message really, it was so motivating, but also so soul-nourishing because it really made me feel like, like the book has done what I wanted it to do. Like, this is what I set out to achieve and, like, this message makes me feel like the book is a success, regardless of how many copies it sells. Like, so it was just like, it was kind of a, it was kind of a, like a moment, like it was, it also sort of like if you're having this effect, like you can, like, stop rearranging it, like, you know, I feel like I've done a rewrite every week for, like, the past eight weeks. Yeah, time to time to ship the gosh darn thing. Colleen Schnettler  05:57That is wonderful. So what I just heard you say is, this book is secretly teaching us how to be better humans, wrapped up in a book about customer interviews. Michele Hansen  06:09Yes, wrapped up in a book about which features you should prioritize, and how to, you know, pick a pricing model based on what people's usage patterns are, and, like, how to understand what people want and write better landing pages. All that stuff they're already trying to do. But then yeah, there's, there's this kind of bigger message. Like, I feel like so much of good UX practice is good human being practice. Colleen Schnettler  06:35Yeah. Michele Hansen  06:36Um, and, I mean, I, I really learned about empathy by doing interviews myself. So this, I mean, it's, it's, it's very personal for me in a way that, like, the book is, I don't know, it is very, very personal for me. And it's not just about showing empathy to other people. It's also about showing empathy to yourself, too, which is just as important. Colleen Schnettler  07:06So I have not read the book yet, unfortunately. Can you tell me briefly, what the difference is between empathy and sympathy that that writer wrote into you? Because we talk about it a lot, but we've never defined it, really. Michele Hansen  07:22Yeah, that's true. So empathy is when you, basically when you, when you try to understand the other person's context without judgment, and it doesn't mean that you agree with what they're saying. You're just trying to find the context behind what they're saying or what they're doing. Because, sort of, most of us, basically, we assume that our, there's this assumption that our actions make sense from our perspective. That is to say you wouldn't go out and do something if it didn't make sense to you, like, maybe very few people might, but like, for the most part, we have this underlying assumption that, that the things that we do make sense to us.  And so you're basically trying to find that internal context for why somebody does something, and then you reflect it back for them. So for example, if you came to me and started telling me about how, like, I don't, I don't know something you were struggling with, like, let's say, you felt like you were banging your head up against the keyboard all week on some, like, coding problem and it was really frustrating for you. An empathetic response to that would be man, that sounds really hard and like you were working really hard on it and it was super frustrating for you. A sympathetic response would be, oh, I'm sorry you went through that. So a sympathetic response creates distance between the person who is speaking and the person who has aired something, and that might not be a complaint or a frustration. It could be like something positive, but it creates distance. And sometimes it's called fake empathy. Like, I feel like this is what you see in a lot of, like, really bad public figures, celebrity apologies. It's like, I'm sorry, that offended you. It's like, no, that's wrong. Like, like, that's not, that's not actually apologizing. And then there's also kind of this other element that I feel like is this sort of, like, solution-based responses, which comes from a place of caring, and I think us as product builders, I know me, like, we really fall into this, is someone, like, if you came to me with some, some problem. If I just said, oh, well, have you tried this? Which, I'm trying to solve your problem, I'm showing care, right? Like, I wouldn't propose a solution to your problem if I didn't care about you and making that solution better. The problem is, is that it doesn't validate your experience and it doesn't acknowledge your experience. So, while it comes from a good place, it's not empathetic because it doesn't say, wow, like, that was really hard for you. Like it doesn't, it doesn't fake make you feel seen or heard. And it could end up being, through the course of a conversation, you end up explicitly asking me like, do you have any advice for how I could do this? Like, what should I try? I feel like I've tried all these other things. But an empathetic response starts with acknowledging what the other person has gone through.  Colleen Schnettler  10:25Okay. Okay  Michele Hansen  10:26And then also checking in with them, like, do you, do you want me to listen to you about this? Or do you want me to help you brainstorm ideas? Colleen Schnettler  10:33Okay. Michele Hansen  10:33Like, so but I think that's, that's like one of those that really, like, it took me a while to wrap my head around that because the other thing about a solution response, especially in the context of a customer interview, or whatnot, is that you need all the context behind, behind why someone does something and why they went through something in order to really build something that solves the problem for them in a way that they understand and they're capable of grokking. Right? Because we need all of the context behind it, not just the functional context, but also sort of the emotional and social context of things in order to build a product that someone feels like is speaking to their experience and the problem they have. Does that make sense? Colleen Schnettler  11:18Yeah, it, it does. It's, it feels like a subtle difference, though. Like, when I try to understand your problem in your context, in your context, the sympathy for versus the empathy, like, it feels very subtle to me. Michele Hansen  11:34It is subtle, but like, um, I mean, it's, it's subtle. You know, it's the difference between, I'm sorry, that was hard for you and that was hard for you. Like, those are a subtle difference between them, but there is a huge difference between that and what someone would receive. Colleen Schnettler  11:53Yeah, I can see that. Michele Hansen  11:55And because when you say, I'm sorry, that happened to you, it emphasizes that it didn't happen to me. Colleen Schnettler  12:01Right, okay. Michele Hansen  12:01It actually, like, Brené Brown talks about this a lot. I'm sorry, that happened to you. It, it makes the other person feel more alone because it emphasizes that they are the only one who experienced that, and it makes them feel isolated.  Colleen Schnettler  12:18Okay.  Michele Hansen  12:19And she has a great way of responding, I'm sorry, of phrasing this, and I don't know if I'm doing it justice. But basically it creates that distance, and feeling alone and feeling like you're the only person who went through something is a really, really hard feeling, especially when you have just gone through something frustrating, and it doesn't have to be a big thing. It could just be, you know, the fact that I spent my week fighting with Grammarly, like, like that could be the problem we're discussing. And, but if you said oh, I'm sorry, you went through that, like, it reminds me that you didn't go through that.  Colleen Schnettler  12:55Hmm. Okay.  Michele Hansen  12:57And it was like, oh, yeah, that was like, maybe it was just me, like, maybe I was doing something wrong, like, am I using it wrong? Like is like, like, you know, it creates all of that doubt and feeling of sort of loneliness in it. Colleen Schnettler  13:11And so tell me the empathetic response again. Michele Hansen  13:14That sounds really hard. Colleen Schnettler  13:15That sounds really hard. Okay, right. So you're not, you're trying not to create that distance where they're an individual isolated, Michele Hansen  13:23Right. Colleen Schnettler  13:24And you're over here. Michele Hansen  13:25And it doesn't start out with I, right? Like, the sympathetic response to start with, you know, like, I'm sorry, that offended you.  Colleen Schnettler  13:33Okay. Michele Hansen  13:34Versus the difference between like, that offended you. Because when you say it that way, you're sort of asking for elaboration. Colleen Schnettler  13:41Right. Right. Michele Hansen  13:42Versus I'm sorry, I offended you just shuts it off.  Colleen Schnettler  13:46Wow, I say that all the time. I'm sorry, XYZ happened to you. Michele Hansen  13:50I said it all the time, too, then I started learning about this stuff. And I was like, I'm accidentally like, a jerk, and I didn't even realize it. But so many of us speak this way. And we learn the way we speak from the people around us. And if the people around you, when you were learning to speak, didn't speak empathetically, even if they're otherwise nice people. like, then it would make sense why you think this way and don't realize it. Colleen Schnettler  14:15Interesting. Michele Hansen  14:16Like, it's totally normal to not realize that what you have been saying is actually not empathetic. Like, like, it is a, it is a learned skill for many people. I mean, the people who have it built in are the people whose, you know, parents really made it a focus when they, when they had their kid. Like, but for most of us, it's kind of oh, I guess I should stop saying that. Like, I remember how at one point, like, when I was in my early 20s, I was at a job and somebody was like, you know, you really shouldn't say well, actually. Like, I don't know if you realize how you are coming across. Like, I know you don't mean anything by it, but like, it's, it's kind of like, and I was like, oh, crap, I do that all the time. Okay, like, mental note, like, mental dictionary update: stop. Like, so it doesn't, you know, it doesn't mean that you're not a nice person or that you're not an empathetic person or that you're not, you don't have a capability for empathy, it simply means that you haven't learned it and all of the various implications of it and we can call learn. Colleen Schnettler  15:15Okay. Yeah. Well, thank you for, for telling me about that. Like, that's really interesting. I didn't know that. I find that like, this whole thing, empathy and psychology, as I'm trying to, as I'm talking to people and trying to sell my product, I have found that it really, and I already knew this, but like, now I'm seeing it, it really makes a difference. Can I just tell you about this one issue, which I find so interesting? Michele Hansen  15:42Yes.  Colleen Schnettler  15:43Okay. So the way my product works is you upload files to the cloud, and then I provide you a dashboard where you can see all of those files. I have gotten several requests now from people to allow them to tag the files. Michele Hansen  16:02Oh, yeah, like Drew asked for that. Right? Colleen Schnettler  16:04Yeah. So I've been trying to figure out why people want to tag the files. He's not the only one who asked for it. Some other people have asked for it. The reason these people want to tag the files is because they want to be able to mass delete all of the files they've uploaded in a development environment. Why did they want to do that? From what I'm understanding, they want to do that so those files, like, because those aren't production files, they're not, like, cluttering up their dashboard. So when those people have asked me about this, I said, well, look, if you exceed your storage, because I don't have a mass delete function right now, and I don't have that, I'll just give you more storage. But nobody likes that answer. It's like, and so I think it's like a mental psychological thing where they want, like, a nice, clean dashboard. I don't know, I just find this really interesting, because I'm like, storage is cheap. I'll give you more storage until I implement this. But, but it's like, it's, like, as human beings, they really want, like, to segment stuff. I don't know, it's like mental. That's kind of the way I've been, I've been thinking about it. Like, as human beings, they don't want files that they don't need on their dashboard, even if they don't have to pay for them. But I'm like, I don't know. So, so that's just kind of been an interesting one for me. I'm like, but you literally like, I'm not gonna make you pay for those files. It's fine. They can just be there in outer space. But no one, yeah, that's an interesting one that keeps coming up. Michele Hansen  17:25Yeah, it sounds like they, like, that clutter is creating a certain like,  Colleen Schnettler  17:33Mental clutter or something psychological clutter. Michele Hansen  17:36Nervousness, or something. And then there's also this element of wanting to, like, mentally, like to mentally separate things like, I'm sort of, I'm reminded of one of my favorite economics papers called Mental Accounting by Richard Thaler, which is basically on how people like, they create different jobs for different bank accounts and investment accounts, and like, you know, for example, people might have one brokerage account that's just for, like, they have like fun money versus they have their serious 401k. Or like, some people have many different bank accounts for, you know, for different purposes. And it, there's, there's probably a broader term for this, but since I come from an econ background, that's, but like, people wanting to create these different mental categories, and basically, like, it's almost like they want to go, sort of, it's like mentally going to IKEA and buying one of those room divider shelves with all the different boxes you can slide boxes in and, like, being able to look at it and see that everything is in all of its little different categories and is in its place. And they know like, you know which things are in which box, and it looks all nice and organized from the outside. Colleen Schnettler  18:51Yeah, I am going to do it because I have found I use my own product for my clients, and I have found I desire the same thing. But I think you're absolutely right. Like, from a purely practical perspective, it doesn't matter. But from, like, a human organizational mental box perspective, like, it seems to make people happy. Michele Hansen  19:11Yeah, like, there's that functional perspective of it. But then there's the emotional perspective of feeling like everything is organized. And then I also wonder if there's a social element where like, maybe they're afraid one of their coworkers will use a file that was only for development, or because there's so many files and they're all in one list, someone will use the wrong file or, like, I wonder if there's any, any sort of elements around that going on? Colleen Schnettler  19:41Yeah. Could be. I didn't ask that. That's, Michele Hansen  19:47So when someone asks you for that, what did you say back to them, exactly? Colleen Schnettler  19:52Well, the first time someone asked me, I said, that's a great idea. I'm totally gonna do that.  Michele Hansen  19:58Okay. That's an understandable response.  Colleen Schnettler  19:59I know you're over there thinking, like, have I taught you nothing, Colleen? You have taught me. That was before we were doing a podcast. Michele Hansen  20:06No, that was a starting point, and that's a perfectly understandable reaction to that. What did you start saying after that? Colleen Schnettler  20:15So the second request I got was via email. So I didn't really have the back and forth that I would have had when I'm talking to someone on the phone or on Slack. And, so this person, I asked them kind of what their use case was, and I also told them in the email that they, you know, I wasn't going to charge them for development files. So if storage became a problem, we could work something out until I had the, you know, a bulk delete API set up. And this person was looking to segment files so they could do a mass delete of the development files. And they also brought up they thought it would be great to be able to segment files, like via model. So you could have, here's all my avatar files over here, here's all my resumes over here, which would be really cool. I mean, that I can totally see the value because and then you're then in your admin, yeah, then in your admin dashboard, you could easily filter based on, you know, what your tag was. And it's really not hard to do, I just haven't done it. But I do like, I do like that idea. And that, to me, makes a lot of sense because I think people really like, like we just talked about, like, you like to have your stuff in the appropriate boxes. Michele Hansen  21:34I think it's hard sometimes when somebody proposes an idea that we get the value of because we would use it ourselves. It can be really hard to say, can you walk me through how you would use that?  Colleen Schnettler  21:46Yeah it is. Michele Hansen  21:47Like, because their reasons may be different. And we really, we need all of those reasons because the reasons I would do something might be different than the reasons why somebody else would do something. But when we understand something, it feels very unnatural to ask for clarification, even when we don't need it. But it's so reasonable.  Colleen Schnettler  22:08That's exactly what it is. It feels so weird, because I'm like, yeah, totally. That's a great freaking idea. Yeah, it is odd. Michele Hansen  22:16I sometimes feel like it's, I wonder if this comes from, like, conditioning in school where, like, I feel like the kid who asks a lot of questions is, you know, sort of branded as annoying. I was definitely that kid in math class. Like, I just always seemed to understand it two weeks after the test. And I wonder if it's like that fear that like, oh, God, like, am I going to be the person who asks questions. And then we have this like, sense that being the person who asks questions, even one that might be sort of a quote, unquote, like dumb question that's clarifying something. Get you like, like, I wonder if there's kind of this built in social conditioning around that, that makes us not want to ask those clarification questions. And we're like, okay, I think I can guess what they want, so I'm just not gonna ask further about that. But, but when we're building a product, you need to be able to, like, look in all the different nooks and crannies of how they're thinking. Colleen Schnettler  23:08Yeah, definitely. That definitely is valuable. To your point, you might use it one way, and they might want it for something totally different. So I really do think, like, throughout the course of this podcast, and since we've been spending a lot of time talking about customer interviews over the past several months, that I've gotten way better at it, because it's, it's my instinct, just to say, yeah, I totally agree, because I do totally agree. So why, I think for me, it's not like, I'm not I don't I'm not scared of asking clarifying questions. I think it's more like, I don't want to waste any more time. Like, I'm like, okay, cool. Let's not waste anyone's time, and let's just go do it. So I have, I do really think I've grown a lot in that, in that kind of sphere of pausing, slow down Colleen, because not really good at slowing down. And, you know, kind of dive into what they want and why they want it. So I think that's been good. Michele Hansen  24:02It can be kind of tough as like, I feel like we're both pretty enthusiastic and kind of like, like, have you ever been called bubbly? Colleen Schnettler  24:11Yeah, of course. Michele Hansen  24:11Yeah, I have been called bubbly, too. Yeah. So like, I like feel like enthusiastic people want to be like, yeah, that sounds awesome. Like, it's so, it's so counter,to like how I would interact with someone socially. Colleen Schnettler  24:25Yeah, I agree. So, so anyway, that was something, I was thinking about that when you were talking all about, you know, empathy and sympathy and psychology, is how much these kinds of factors play into product building.  Michele Hansen  24:41Yeah and building an intuitive product that, that makes sense to people. Like it's, it's really hard to build something that's intuitive because it requires understanding the user's mental model of how something works, and you can't understand their mental model unless you have, you know, really, you know, poked through every nook and cranny of how they think about it. And also seeing what are the similarities at scale across many different customers. You can't just build it for one particular person, right? Like this, I think this is like, do we want to do we want to do more definitions? Because now I'm excited to get into definitions between Human Centered Design versus activities under design. But if we are, we are feeling good on definition today, then, Colleen Schnettler  25:29I don't know what those are. Yeah, go ahead. Michele Hansen  25:32So like, you probably hear people talk about human-centered design, right? Colleen Schnettler  25:37I mean, no, but okay, I believe you, so not me.  Michele Hansen  25:40So like humans, I feel like this kind of came really into it, like, especially in, in tech in the past, like, I don't know, 10,10-15 years, like, you like, think about the human behind it. And like, this is where a lot of like, agile stories come from, is like, as an administrator, I would like to be able to update the billing page, whenever we get a new credit card, like, like, those kinds of stories that if you've worked in the corporate world, you have seen the ads of so and so like, those kind of stories. And like, creating personas, and maybe there's like a picture of a person, and there's their age, and there's like, you know, like, all of those kinds of things that's very, like human-centered designs, and you're designing for people and understanding what those people need. Then there's activity-centered design, which is designing for things that people might be trying to accomplish, but not for specific people, if that makes sense. So it's like, so if you're thinking, I just used an example of like, a billing administrator. The human-centered design approach with a persona might be you know, this is Susan, and she lives in Iowa, she has been working in insurance for 20 years, she has a dog named Charlie, like she prefers to use her iPad on the weekends, but during the week, she uses Windows like, it's like that kind of stuff. Activity-centered design would be like, when billing administrators are going through this process, they want to be able to, you know, these are the different kinds of things they're thinking about, these are the different functions that they need to be able to do. Here are the different things they might be feeling. Like, do they want to be updating a credit card? Like, how does that make them feel, like, is that, is that enjoyable for them? Is that frustrating? Like, are there other people they're working with on this? Do they need to go get a p-card from someone else? Like, what is this entire process they're going through that is independent of them as a specific person and independent of the product? And then how does the product help them get through that entire activity, either easier, faster, or cheaper.  I feel like I just dropped like,  Colleen Schnettler  27:54There's a lot.  Michele Hansen  27:54A lot.  Colleen Schnettler  27:55I'm gonna have to re-listen to that one.  Michele Hansen  27:56But basically,  Colleen Schnettler  27:57So what's the, Michele Hansen  27:58Activity-centered is kind of the approach that I take. And that's the, the approach in the book is designing a process that exists regardless of the person and regardless of the process.  Colleen Schnettler  28:10Okay. Michele Hansen  28:10The product, I think I messed that up. Colleen Schnettler  28:13Okay, so which one is better? Do you have all the answers, Michele? Tell us. Michele Hansen  28:18I am not going to throw bombs in the design world here. I mean, you know, there's, there's value in designing for specific people, right, and, and specific types of people, especially when you're talking about accessibility and whatnot. But fundamentally, you know, like, activity center design is okay, what it, what is the thing that someone's trying to accomplish? For example, 500 years ago, you may have solved, you know, entertain me at home, when I'm alone on a Saturday night with cards or dice, right. And now you might solve it with Netflix. But that fundamental process that you're going through to not be bored when you're in your house on the weekend, like, that process and that desire is relatively constant, which is the thing about activity-centered design approaches is that you're looking at a process that is consistent over time, because you're speaking to sort of broader, underlying goals. And this types of products, someone might use the different functional and social and emotional things that might be important to them are different, but the overall process is the same. And so this is what I think about a lot when we're like thinking about the process that someone is going through and designing something that's intuitive for them and building that mental model is understanding, okay, why do they need to be able to tag things and why do they need to be able to mass delete these things, and what is this overall thing they're trying to do? And it sounds like it's sort of, to feel like all of their files are organized and they can find things when they want to, and that desire to be organized is a relatively consistent desire. Colleen Schnettler  30:03Yeah, I think one of the things, one of the phrases we use at work is to surprise and delight the user. And I feel like this falls into the surprise and delight category. Like it's not necessary, but it's delightful.  Michele Hansen  30:19You just used the phrase ‘at work'. Does that mean when you are working? Or? Colleen Schnettler  30:26Oh, just when I'm, just this company that I've been contracting for for a while likes to use that phrase. Michele Hansen  30:31Okay, gotcha. Colleen Schnettler  30:32So this to me feels, Michele Hansen  30:34I didn't know if you'd suddenly gone off and gotten a full time job without telling me. Colleen Schnettler  30:39Well, I'll tell you if I do that. I may be considering that. That's like a whole ‘nother podcast episode. I feel like we don't have enough time to dive into that. Michele Hansen  30:50We'll do that in a future episode. Colleen Schnettler  30:52Colleen's life decisions. But yeah, so, this feature, I feel like, is delightful. And when we talk about like design, you know, in the context, you were just saying, I think it does fit into the, the latter category. Michele Hansen  31:10Yeah. And I can, I can understand how someone, or you might even, or probably, I feel like if we had talked about this, like, six months or a year ago, the reaction kind of would be like, this feels like we're really splitting hairs over something that's super obvious, and why don't I just go build it? Colleen Schnettler  31:29Well, yeah, Michele Hansen  31:30Which, I think it's a very understandable reaction. Colleen Schnettler  31:34Yeah, I mean, I think the problem I'm having, and I know everyone in my position has this problem. It's just, there's just not enough time to do all these things. Like, one part of me wants to take like six months and just do all the things, right? And then the other part of me wants to balance my life with building this business, and is trying to be patient with, with my constraints as a human. So I know, you know, everyone has those, that struggle, everyone who's working and trying to do this. But yeah, I'd love to add all these things. Like, I want to do all the things of course I do. Michele Hansen  32:10Speaking of which, building the business, we started this episode with my numbers update. Do you want to give us a little numbers update before we go? Colleen Schnettler  32:31So I do want to tell a little story about this. Storytime. So, someone who's kind of a prominent bootstrapper had a tweet the other day about how for his SaaS, he just implemented file uploading using some JavaScript library, and it took him like, I don't know, like a day. So not an insignificant amount of time, but not a huge amount of time. It's a long time if you're a developer to take all day. But I saw, so, like, I saw his tweet, and I was like, oh, like, why didn't he use Simple File Upload? Like, clearly my product is crap. Okay, so this happened at like 9am. So then, like, later in the day, this just happened a couple days ago, I went to see if I had any new signups. And as you know, like, I've been pretty flat for like two or three weeks now, signups have been pretty flat. So, in one day, I got $325 boost in my MRR. One day. Michele Hansen  33:19What? Colleen Schnettler  33:20That has never happened in the history of my product, like ever. I was like, whoa. Michele Hansen  33:25So did someone Tweet it, like, add it to that thread, or, like what happened? Colleen Schnettler  33:29No, no one added it to the thread. And I didn't add it to the thread because he was clearly looking for a non-paid solution. So it seems like it wasn't that he hated my product or it was bad, he just wasn't looking for this kind of solution I was offering. I don't really know what happened. But a whole bunch of people signed up. Michele Hansen  33:50These two things happened on the same day, and you don't have any conclusively linking them, but it feels suspicious that they wouldn't be linked. Colleen Schnettler  34:00It's super weird, right?  Michele Hansen  34:01Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  34:02Um, so I am trying to like, I'm just really starting to try and get into, like, Google Analytics and understand that. Anyway, so that was, my point of that story is like, you know, this is, we're never bored. I'm never bored, right? Like one day, I'm like, this thing is miserable. The next day, I'm like, I'm the most brilliant person in the world. Like, it's never, it's never boring. I guess my point of that story was it's all over the place. I'm all over the place with, with this product. And some days I feel like it's just not, not as good as it should be. Some days I feel like I'm charging too much. And then other days I have, like I realized I have, there's all this power in this thing I built that no one is utilizing. So that's something I really want to spend some time getting some content going out there and spend some time, like, showing people why it's more powerful than, than, you know, other solutions they've been using. Michele Hansen  34:58You seem really fired up.  Colleen Schnettler  35:00I am. I, I've just had like, a, it's been, like, a really good week. I mean, from a work perspective. And although I didn't get to spend the time, you know, I got, okay. I don't have a lot of time to spend on the product the next month or so, so I'm just taking it in little bits, right. And so this week, it's a tiny thing, but someone pointed out to me, and I think this also plays into psychology. Okay, so my marketing site is built in Tailwind UI. My application site is built off of Bootstrap. Bootstrap and Tailwind are not friends. I can't just throw Tailwind into my Bootstrap site. Michele Hansen  35:37If it makes you feel better, the Geocodio dashboard was on Bootstrap, and the Geocodio marketing website was on Railwind for, like, a really long time, like, like, you, like, we were on the like, 2013 version of Bootstrap for, like, a very long time. And it wasn't until like maybe six months or a year ago that we actually got them both on Tailwind. So you're not the only one. Okay, so back to yours. Colleen Schnettler  36:06So this. Okay, so if you are on my marketing site, and you click through to sign up to get the free trial, here's the thing that happens. The nav bars are different. Michele Hansen  36:17Mmm.  Colleen Schnettler  36:18Yeah, it's not good, and someone pointed it out to me. They were like, oh, I had to click back and forth a few times to make sure it was still the same application. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And so I can't, but it was like, it was, so it's just this visual thing. But this he pointed out, he was like, you know, that's, that made me think I was at the wrong place, it might make me close the window. Michele Hansen  36:40Yeah it might make them think something was wrong, or, like, they accidentally got led off to another site that wasn't the right one. And like, maybe it's, like, phishing or something, like. Colleen Schnettler  36:50Exactly, that's exactly what this guy said. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And so, so my, my Simple File Upload technical accomplishment this week, was basically like, and because I can't, my application is pretty complicated. I can't just pull out Bootstrap and drop in Tailwind. That's gonna take me forever. So I actually, like, just stole, stole is the wrong word. I grabbed some of the Tailwind styles and just over, you know, and overrode my Bootstrap styles just for the navbar. So anyway, the point is, now the nav bars look the same. And it's like, it sounds like a small thing. But like, I think the mental block for, if you sign up and I drop you to a totally different site, you're like, wait, what?  Michele Hansen  37:29Like, yeah, it's like, something is, like, the brain is a little bit like, danger, something is different. Colleen Schnettler  37:34Yeah, exactly. So, so another, so it was another big CSS week for me, which is not my forte, but I got it.  Michele Hansen  37:41I wrote JavaScript this week, which is not my forte. Colleen Schnettler  37:46Oh, jack of all trades.  Michele Hansen  37:48Well, we wrote stuff that, that's not our forte, and you're going back and forth between feeling like it's amazing and you've built something super powerful. And then, also feeling like it's, really has a long way to go, and is it ever going to get there, which, honestly, is how I feel, like, I feel the exact same way about my book. Like, every day, it's like, oh, my God, this is a hot mess. And then I'm like, actually, this is amazing and I should just publish it now. Like, I think that's, I think that's just like part of building something, whether it's a book or you know, software. I mean, yeah. Colleen Schnettler  38:31And honestly, I think it's part of the fun. Like, I honestly do, like I, it makes it interesting. Like, I've worked jobs that are really boring, and they're really boring. Like, this is way more exciting.Michele Hansen  38:52I think that's the thing I love about being an entrepreneur is that it's always different. And sometimes it's different in ways that are super boring and require a lot of paperwork. And sometimes it's different in ways that are like, super awesome, and exciting. But the fact that it is so different all the time is, is what makes it fun and makes me feel like I get to, like, feel lucky that I get to do this as my job.  On that note, perhaps we should sign off for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on iTunes or tweet at us. We love hearing what you think about it. Have a good one.

Bye Aerospace lost their battery supplier, as Oxis Energy went into bankruptcy--what does this mean for Bye? We discuss the Alpha Electro, a trainer from Pipstrel, and the use of electric motors in light sport aircraft. Plus, more new EVTOL designs continue to pour out, including a 40-seat design. But are these prototype renderings just a pipe dream? Or will they ever actually fly? Learn more about Weather Guard StrikeTape segmented lightning diverters and aircraft lightning protection consulting services. Follow the show on YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit us on the web. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Transcript EP56 - Pipistrel Alpha Electro; Battery Woes for Bye Aerospace; Is a 40-Passenger EVTOL Just Science Fiction? 0:00This episode is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech at Weather Guard. We support design engineers and make lightning protection easy. You're listening to the struck podcast. I'm Dan Blewett. 0:18I'm Allen Hall. 0:19And here on strike we talk about everything aviation, aerospace engineering and lightning protection. Alright, welcome back to the struck aerospace engineering podcast. I'm your co host, Dan Blewett. On today's show, lots to cover a lot of interesting news in the cycle this week. Number one, and we'll chat about Southwest. There's just way too many flight attendants getting getting punched in the face. So we got a we got a chat about it. EVTOL. Startup Archer is seeking to dismiss the trade secrets lawsuit filed by whisk but that doesn't look like it's going anywhere. That seems like it's getting only increasingly messy. We'll talk about mighty fly, which has been cleared to start autonomous cargo drone service. They've gotten some some clearance from the FAA, which will be cool. And then in our engineering Simon was about pipistrel. They've a light sport aircraft, they got an electric motor and about an hour of flight time with an hour charge time. So pretty cool. Some rough news for by aerospace, their battery supplier oxes energy is facing bankruptcy. So we'll talk about the implications there. And then our EVTOL. Segment lots of interesting stuff going on there. We'll talk about some certification issues, which we've talked a bunch about in the past ehang is unveiling a longer range design, and Kel akona has thrown out a 40 passenger concept, which seems straight out of science fiction at this point. And we'll talk a little bit about that as well as some price controls. So start with Southwest isn't really sad Southwest is calling off plans. Well, the plans to sell alcohol in the plains does not make me sad I I'm neutral to it. But there's just been a lot of incidences with unruly passengers. And more recently, Southwest flight attendant was punched in the face loss of teeth. And I mean, things are getting are getting rough. What do you attribute this to? 2:18Alcohol, alcohol, people being upset about masks, reconnecting with the rest of society after being disconnected for a year, all those all those things are playing into it. I recently flew to Las Vegas and I was I kind of like flying to Las Vegas, because it's just it's different places a little more activity. Most airports, the only place I guess there's more places with slot machines. There's a couple places with slot machines in the country. But that has to have the most. And the amount of alcohol there is says hi right You mean that people can leave in the casino gonna go home? For the most part and I think you see it in places where people have been partying in Florida had a rash of it. Some of the islands had a rash of it. I think that's that's just a big problem with alcohol. People being upset about mass people being overly sensitive about stuff and flight attendants worried about their well being which they have every right to it for a two hour flight. You're going to get to a fistfight and punch somebody punch a flight attendant,

If you use promo code BRETT https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-brett-kollmann with any deposit, that will give you an extra $25 FREE on the platform that can be used to enter their $3.5 MILLION Best Ball Mania tournament! Brett and E.J. break down the full offseason additions (and losses) for every NFC West team! Who is better? Who is worse? Who is painfully average? Stick around and find out!TIME STAMPS:Drinks of the day -- 0-0:01Seahawks recap -- 04:4449ers recap -- 43:16The Julio Jones tangent -- 1:08:39Rams recap -- 1:13:30Cardinals recap -- 1:42:28Best NFC West players for fantasy this year -- 2:13:19And while you're here, follow E.J. and Brett at their respective twitter and instagram handles too:Twitter: @BrettKollmann and @thedraftsmanFBInstagram: @brett_kollmannThe Film Room: http://youtube.com/c/brettkollmannBFP on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bootleg-football/id1501769114BFP on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6w5GeninFTtBagyBXQklLqBFP on Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/bootleg-football

In this episode we discuss Airbus Corporate Helicopters (ACH) and their 70% marketshare of the yachting helicopter segment--is this sustainable, and recession-proof? Aerion, who was making headlines with their X2 supersonic corporate jet prototype, has shut down operations. What does this mean for the industry, and should other startups be nervous? And, Allen dives into sustainable aviation fuel (SAF)--will it catch on and prove viable with new legislation proposing tax incentives for airlines that adopt it? Learn more about Weather Guard StrikeTape lightning diverters and aircraft lightning protection services here. If you're a radome design engineer, we can help. Follow the show on YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit us on the web. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Episode Transcript: Airbus Corporate Helicopters; Aerion Supersonic Shuts Down; Will Sustainable Aviation Fuel Actually Catch On? 0:00This episode is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech at Weather Guard. We support design engineers and make lightning protection easy. You're listening to the struck podcast. I'm Dan Blewett. 0:18I'm Allen Hall. 0:19And here on struck we talk about everything aviation, aerospace engineering and lightning protection. Alright, welcome back to the struck aerospace engineering podcast. I'm your co host, Dan Blewett. On today's show, we've got a bunch of Boeing related news, some other news. So first, we'll start with Emirates, sending a warning to Boeing that it might refuse their 777 x shipment. That doesn't meet commitments. We'll talk about Airbus and some other helicopter market and our engineering segment today we'll talk a little bit more about the grounding issue the electrical issues that Boeing's had. And how does the complex fastening riveting? Just the order of operations in manufacturing played a role in that. And we'll also talk about sustainable jet fuels and a potential tax credit that's coming out in potential legislation. Lastly, on our EBT well segment, like a little bit about john Air Mobility as they're trying to get a will they have a partnership now with cae to accelerate design of a flight simulator. And we'll talk about the implications for aireon shutting down. Of course, Ariane is not an EBT well, but a supersonic jet company, now defunct, but this will certainly send a ripples throughout a lot of these throughout the industry, as a lot of these other startup companies, which were well funded like aireon, maybe wonder if they're next. So Alan, let's start here with with Emirates. So they warned Boeing that they were refused 777 x jets, if they fall short of contractual performance commitments, is this a big deal, or is this pretty sort of normal par for the course, it's normal if you're inside company to company, but it's unusual to see that get into the press. 2:06So somebody is getting upset, and those using the press as a leverage point. Because the aircraft manufacturer doesn't want to be in the press about that stuff. And they don't want it to spread that maybe their performance numbers are not being met. And on the triple seven, there's been a lot of conjecture about the performance of the power plants, like what kind of thrust we got, what kind of fuel burn we have, because that's critical to the operation of any airline or freighter company, for that matter of how much fuel we're gonna burn with x kind of load in it, and what's the range and all those kind of things. As you can imagine, if you're the analyst at the airline company, and you're trying to put that into your database and figure out what the cost of an airline ticket is, or what kind of profitability this airplane is going to be what routes you can fly it on, you have nothing to base that on, you just have no data without having that that's like the most crucial piece of data of all of it is engine performance. So you can get a lot of back and forth between buyers and producers of ...

Pastor Alex Walker Numbers 27:18-20 KJV 18And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him; 19And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight. 20And thou shalt put some of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.

Domestic abuse affects everyone it touches—intimate partners, children, and elders. COVID-19 created new problems for victims of domestic violence and made some worse. This show looks at the challenges to survivors and their advocates posed by the pandemic and examines a landmark piece of legislation in the UK that could change the way countries there handle domestic abuse cases.

Domestic abuse affects everyone it touches—intimate partners, children, and elders. COVID-19 created new problems for victims of domestic violence and made some worse. This show looks at the challenges to survivors and their advocates posed by the pandemic and examines a landmark piece of legislation in the UK that could change the way countries there handle domestic abuse cases.

Matthew 21 (ESV) 1Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, tothe Mount of Olives, then Jesussent two disciples,2saying to them,Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me.3If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, The Lord needs them, and he will send them at once.4This took placeto fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5Say to the daughter of Zion,Behold, your king is coming to you,humble, and mounted on a donkey,on a colt,the foal of a beast of burden. 6The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them.7They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and he sat on them.8Most of the crowdspread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road.9And the crowds that went before him and that followed him were shouting,Hosanna tothe Son of David!Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosannain the highest!10Andwhen he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, Who is this?11And the crowds said, This isthe prophet Jesus,from Nazareth of Galilee. 12And Jesus entered the templeand drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables ofthe money-changers and the seats of those who soldpigeons.13He said to them,It is written,My house shall be called a house of prayer, butyou make it a den of robbers. 14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple, and he healed them.15But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple,Hosanna to the Son of David! they were indignant,16and they said to him, Do you hear what these are saying? And Jesus said to them,Yes;have you never read, Out of the mouth ofinfants and nursing babiesyou have prepared praise? 17Andleaving them, hewent out of the city toBethany and lodged there. 18In the morning, as he was returning to the city,he became hungry.19And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it,May no fruit ever come from you again!And the fig tree withered at once. 20When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, How did the fig tree wither at once?21And Jesus answered them,Truly, I say to you,if you have faith anddo not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,Be taken up and thrown into the sea, it will happen.22Andwhatever you ask in prayer, you will receive,if you have faith. 23And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to himas he was teaching, and said,By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?24Jesus answered them,I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things.25The baptism of John,from where did it come?From heaven or from man?And they discussed it among themselves, saying, If we say, From heaven, he will say to us,Why then did you not believe him?26But if we say, From man,we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John wasa prophet.27So they answered Jesus, We do not know. And he said to them,Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things. 28What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, Son, go and work inthe vineyard today.29And he answered, I will not, but afterward hechanged his mind and went.30And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, I go, sir, but did not go.31Which of the two did the will of his father?They said, The first. Jesus said to them,Truly, I say to you,the tax collectors andthe prostitutes go intothe kingdom of God before you.32For John came to youin the way of righteousness, andyou did not believe him, butthe tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterwardchange your minds and believe him. 33Hear another parable. There was a master of a house who planteda vineyardand put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and built a tower andleased it to tenants, andwent into another country.34When the season for fruit drew near, he sent his servantsto the tenantsto get his fruit.35And the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, andstoned another.36Again he sent other servants, more than the first. And they did the same to them.37Finally he sent his son to them, saying, They will respect my son.38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves,This is the heir. Come,let us kill him and have his inheritance.39And they took him andthrew him out of the vineyard and killed him.40When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?41They said to him,He will put those wretches to a miserable death andlet out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons. 42Jesus said to them,Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone that the builders rejectedhas become the cornerstone;this was the Lord's doing,and it is marvelous in our eyes? 43Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of Godwill be taken away from you and given to a peopleproducing its fruits.44Andthe one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; andwhen it falls on anyone, it will crush him. 45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.46Andalthough they were seeking to arrest him,they feared the crowds, because they held him to bea prophet.

Your wedding day timeline is used by all of your vendors to understand the flow of the wedding. It also can make or break your day because if things fall behind, it has a domino effect and the rest of the day can get really off the rails if something goes wrong. So it’s important to spend time putting together a solid day-of timeline.  I’m going to break down the process for you in 7 simple stepsStep 1: Pick the Start time for your Reception and CeremonyStep 2: Choose Your Reception End TimeStep 3: Build in time for Photos  Step 4: Choose a Getting Ready Start Time Step 5: Plan Out Your Dinner Step 6: Build in Transition TimeStep 7: Add in Your Vendor Setup & Departure TimesRead the episode show notes at verveeventco.com/19And, if you want to make your life SUPER EASY, you can visit my new Resources shop to download pre-made timelines that are beautiful and all ready for you to tweak and personalize to your specific day. These timelines use the framework I use with my own clients and will make sure you don’t forget very important elements, like travel time and transition time between key events. You can find the resource shop at https://shop.verveeventco.comIf you liked this episode, please SUBSCRIBE and connect with me at  http://asktheplannerpodcast.com/. And if want to learn more about planning a wedding, send me a DM on Instagram at @asktheplannerpodcast

John 3:121 (ESV) You Must Be Born Again 3Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. 3Jesus answered him, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born? 5Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. 9Nicodemus said to him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered him, Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God So Loved the World 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

This week's short episode, "They Went With Haste", is diving into the Shepherd's story from Luke 2:8-19. Chelsey shares about their desire to seek the promise of what God told them they would find without any hesitation. She shares that we too, are called to seek the Lord in the very same way, with haste. Haste to seek Him above all things and to share His truth to the ends of the earth. Luke 2:8-19And in the same region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear. 10 And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,14 “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!” 15 When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us.” 16 And they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby lying in a manger. 17 And when they saw it, they made known the saying that had been told them concerning this child. 18 And all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them. 19 But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart.Psalm 119:2Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart, Ephesians 5:15-17 15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Matthew 28: 16-2016 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matthew 5:13-1613 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. 14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. 

BUY THE GO CREATOR GO BOOK & JOURNAL:www.antoinebeane.comhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GV2DK1Vhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GVJ6MP5FOLLOW GO CREATOR GO & TRIUMPH MEDIAWORKS:Facebook & IG: @gogreatorgo & @triumphmediaworksTwitter: @gcreatorgwww.triumphmediaworks.com___________________________________SCRIPTURES CONCERNING IDENTIGenesis 1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.1 Peter 2:9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.Jeremiah 29:11For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.1 Corinthians 1:30And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption.1 Corinthians 12:27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.1 Corinthians 6:17But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.1 Samuel 12:22For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name’s sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself.1 Samuel 16:7But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.Colossians 2:10And you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.Colossians 3:12Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.Ephesians 1:1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus.Ephesians 1:11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.Ephesians 1:13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.Ephesians 1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places.Ephesians 1:4Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love.Ephesians 1:5He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.Ephesians 1:7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.Ephesians 2:10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.Ephesians 2:13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.Ephesians 2:19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.Ephesians 2:6And raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.Ephesians 2:8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.Ephesians 4:24And to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.Ephesians 5:8For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.Galatians 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.Genesis 2:7Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.Isaiah 43:1But now thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.”Isaiah 49:16Behold, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me.Isaiah 64:8But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.John 1:12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.John 15:15No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.John 15:16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.John 15:5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.Matthew 5:48You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.Matthew 6:26Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?Philippians 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,Philippians 4:19And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.Psalm 100:3Know that the Lord, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.Psalm 139:14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well.Romans 5:1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.Romans 6:6We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.Romans 8:15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”Romans 8:17And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

brandon handley00:08All right. Very cool. 00:10Very cool. Well, they'll start it off in 54321 Hey there, spiritual dope. I'm on today with Cody rain Cody rain is like he's a master of all kinds of marketing. He's got the mantas programs got this podcast visceral human 00:27He has a course creators Academy that's powered by the mantas program you're looking to get into video 00:33Code is your guy, he's got the Hitchhiker's Guide to video. He's got so much other he's got so much going on. I personally kind of wonder like how you keep it all together. But you know, it's obvious to me that you've got a system of implementation. 00:46And you just kind of rock it out because you do have your systems in place, but man, thanks for joining us today. How you doing, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program00:52Hey, thank you so much brother is such a pleasure to be here. Yeah. Man systems in life so many things that we, I love that you talk about systems because we are a system. 01:04We are a series of processes that are constantly executing. We're taking a new devil data developing it, we are processing that data, making decisions utilizing our power of choice and for me. 01:17My brain has been really scattered my whole life, because we'll just say ADHD and all these other random things. And so for me, systems and all that stuff is very, very, I don't want to say it's necessary, but it is important. 01:31And so for me, kind of having that structure is, you know, the one way you do one thing is what you do everything so 01:39I structure my life. 01:40And that reflects in my business man. So with that, yeah, I got a lot going down constantly emotion constantly thinking about the things that a lot of people tend to ignore. 01:50And I appreciate you for having me, man. Today is the best day of my life and I'm so excited. I get to share it with you. brandon handley01:55Now, man. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I always tell people I've waited my entire life for this moment right 02:01Right. 02:01I mean, because here we are. I mean we everything's everything's built up to this moment. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program02:04Yeah. brandon handley02:05As far as we know, right up until now. 02:07So, so, you know, I think you started off with something pretty well there and and i think it would tie into this piece, but I'm gonna go ahead and ask this piece anyways because it may may hit you differently, right. So, 02:19We, we agree, like the kind of universe speaks through us. Right. And that like when somebody listens to this podcast. It's gonna 02:26They're gonna hear something that you and I didn't even hear right in between our dial. I think like that these guys, this is what they're talking about. Oh my god. So to that person through you today. What, what message do they need to hear me to the universe. 02:42The universe, Dorian, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program02:43Hey, yo. Gotcha. Man, if I was to speak to anybody. My message to 02:48Everyone at all times. It is, isn't it, it is oneness to what happens when I'm sorry what's most important is what's happening right this very second right this second. 03:03In a perfect kind of will say execution of that or example is I woke up today. 03:08And pleasure to be here right woke up. It's amazing. And for whatever reason, had a song stuck in my head. I don't remember my dreams or anything, per se, but I do remember waking up with a feeling 03:19But then I also remember kind of surrendering to the thoughts and then I put on some music wasn't sure what was going to play and that first song just 03:26Just hit man, it means so well you know when music hits you, that you don't feel any pain. 03:33And so it hit me really hard and I had to kind of surrender to the moment and allow myself to remove judgment to remove you know will say the permissions. I might be asking for to express myself. 03:48And I just stood in the middle of the room in his eyes closed and just listen to this song and try to express myself, honestly. 03:57And I'm just in a moment. Man, am I thinking about what's going on for the rest of day. I'm not worried about what happened to me. I'm not worried about the projects and backlogs and clients and business. None of that stuff. 04:09I'm seriously just being one with the moments just looking at it, breathing filling my heart rate feeling this my skin. The breeze from the fan above me. 04:20And I'm just in the moment and I went to the mirror. I looked at myself and for whatever reason, I looked at myself a little bit longer than normal. It's one thing to recognize yourself. 04:31To experience your reflection. But for me, I felt like I was looking into a whole nother world but connecting at the same time. And I realized that Cody, you're not wasting time. You're seriously experiencing the illusion of it. 04:48And so it was that moment the today this morning that I was so in the moments in the expression. I was actually practicing dynamic freedom. 05:02My ability to do anything and being honest and real with who I am today right is second. And I'm thinking about these things. And I realized 05:13Cody, those, those thoughts are in your head, because that's what you actually want to do. Those are the things that you're interested in. 05:18Go outside man do these things. There's no restrictions practices, man. Get in the moment be more in the moment. And that's why once again today is the best day of my life, brother. brandon handley05:31I love that I actually, I interviewed a you know a transformational coach last night. She's been been at the work for quite some time. And one of the first pieces that she has somebody do 05:44You know she she she coaches, people who are on the business side and how and this podcast is related to this, right. Like, how, how do we integrate our spiritual self all of who we are into 05:56Our business mechanical self right like this robot and, you know, checking off the boxes piece. And one of the things that she hasn't do is just what you said there, which is to do the mirror work. 06:07Right. Look at the mirror and say I am here with myself. I am here with myself. Right. So, I love, I love that you're doing that and, you know, to, to others that are listening and I totally. I think that that's something you should give yourself a shot to right I would Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program06:21Like to express this on that notes. 06:24Sure know about mirror work. 06:26I've never done it. And so I will say this man when we feel like we're doing work. 06:33Like me we're work even having that word work and brandon handley06:37Sure, sure. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program06:37Already has that connotation, or like it's gonna be 06:40It's gonna be difficult. I don't like work right. 06:42Like doing. And so for me today. It's once again. It wasn't like I was out to study myself. I was just in a place 06:51Over the last few months, man. I've been developing and constantly evolving to be more and more and more of the person that I really am and more of the person that I actually want to be 07:03And so today, it was a natural thing that happened. It wasn't like, Hey, I'm working on myself do this. What do you notice it just, I just felt like an energy line. It just kind of pulled me there. I actually caught my own reflection and I was like, I'm going to give you a moment of my time. brandon handley07:22Now hundred percent brandon handley00:16He has a course creators Academy that's powered by the mantas program you're looking to get into video 00:22Code is your guy, he's got the Hitchhiker's Guide to video. He's got so much other he's got so much going on. I personally kind of wonder like how you keep it all together. But you know, it's obvious to me that you've got a system of implementation. 00:35And you just kind of rock it out because you do have your systems in place, but man, thanks for joining us today. How you doing, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program00:41Hey, thank you so much brother is such a pleasure to be here. Yeah. Man systems in life so many things that we, I love that you talk about systems because we are a system. 00:53We are a series of processes that are constantly executing. We're taking a new devil data developing it, we are processing that data, making decisions utilizing our power of choice and for me. 01:06My brain has been really scattered my whole life, because we'll just say ADHD and all these other random things. And so for me, systems and all that stuff is very, very, I don't want to say it's necessary, but it is important. 01:20And so for me, kind of having that structure is, you know, the one way you do one thing is what you do everything so 01:28I structure my life. 01:29And that reflects in my business man. So with that, yeah, I got a lot going down constantly emotion constantly thinking about the things that a lot of people tend to ignore. brandon handley01:44Now, man. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I always tell people I've waited my entire life for this moment right 01:50Right. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program01:53Yeah. brandon handley01:54As far as we know, right up until now. 01:56So, so, you know, I think you started off with something pretty well there and and i think it would tie into this piece, but I'm gonna go ahead and ask this piece anyways because it may may hit you differently, right. So, 02:08We, we agree, like the kind of universe speaks through us. Right. And that like when somebody listens to this podcast. It's gonna 02:15They're gonna hear something that you and I didn't even hear right in between our dial. I think like that these guys, this is what they're talking about. Oh my god. So to that person through you today. What, what message do they need to hear me to the universe. 02:31The universe, Dorian, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program02:32Hey, yo. Gotcha. Man, if I was to speak to anybody. My message to 02:37Everyone at all times. It is, isn't it, it is oneness to what happens when I'm sorry what's most important is what's happening right this very second right this second. 02:52In a perfect kind of will say execution of that or example is I woke up today. 02:57And pleasure to be here right woke up. It's amazing. And for whatever reason, had a song stuck in my head. I don't remember my dreams or anything, per se, but I do remember waking up with a feeling 03:15Just hit man, it means so well you know when music hits you, that you don't feel any pain. 03:22And so it hit me really hard and I had to kind of surrender to the moment and allow myself to remove judgment to remove you know will say the permissions. I might be asking for to express myself. 03:37And I just stood in the middle of the room in his eyes closed and just listen to this song and try to express myself, honestly. 03:46And I'm just in a moment. Man, am I thinking about what's going on for the rest of day. I'm not worried about what happened to me. I'm not worried about the projects and backlogs and clients and business. None of that stuff. 03:58I'm seriously just being one with the moments just looking at it, breathing filling my heart rate feeling this my skin. The breeze from the fan above me. 04:37And so it was that moment the today this morning that I was so in the moments in the expression. I was actually practicing dynamic freedom. 04:51My ability to do anything and being honest and real with who I am today right is second. And I'm thinking about these things. And I realized 05:07Go outside man do these things. There's no restrictions practices, man. Get in the moment be more in the moment. And that's why once again today is the best day of my life, brother. brandon handley05:20I love that I actually, I interviewed a you know a transformational coach last night. She's been been at the work for quite some time. And one of the first pieces that she has somebody do 05:33You know she she she coaches, people who are on the business side and how and this podcast is related to this, right. Like, how, how do we integrate our spiritual self all of who we are into 05:45Our business mechanical self right like this robot and, you know, checking off the boxes piece. And one of the things that she hasn't do is just what you said there, which is to do the mirror work. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program06:10Like to express this on that notes. 06:13Sure know about mirror work. 06:15I've never done it. And so I will say this man when we feel like we're doing work. 06:22Like me we're work even having that word work and brandon handley06:26Sure, sure. 06:29It's gonna be difficult. I don't like work right. 06:31Like doing. And so for me today. It's once again. It wasn't like I was out to study myself. I was just in a place 06:52And so today, it was a natural thing that happened. It wasn't like, Hey, I'm working on myself do this. What do you notice it just, I just felt like an energy line. It just kind of pulled me there. I actually caught my own reflection and I was like, I'm going to give you a moment of my time. brandon handley07:11Now hundred percent Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program07:11Really interesting to think about brandon handley07:14Now, I love, I love it. I mean, you also you also hit on to you know to experiencing the illusion of time right where you were, you were talking about. 07:31You're looking at yourself as a human. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program07:33Being right brandon handley07:35Right, right, right. 07:37And I also love to, you know, you talked about, you know, the permission for greatness. It makes me think of that Banksy one right. The thing you know and it goes, you know, stop asking for, you know, stop asking for permission to be great. 07:46You know, for greatness and yeah Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program07:49It's amazing how that works. 07:50I realized today. And today, maybe is it, is it a coincidence. Is it meant to be that I have this this experience today before we had a chance to speak. I don't know, man, that's the exciting part about being 08:05Right, I'm excited for those moments. I'm really excited to explore them. More importantly, I'm excited for the experience 08:12Because I'm in a constant state of curiosity. I'm a constant state of growth and I know this, I repeat it to myself, and I know it. I feel I am it's it's a staple in my being. 08:23Is to be in a place of evolution. And then when you surrender. A lot of times people go surrender means you got to give up. No. 08:31You have to allow these emotions to set in. I remember feeling it. Tears welled up. I looked at my smile. And I was like, how I'm smiling right now. 08:39Hold. I'm just being I'm just one. I just feel good. I'm accepting these things and yeah just removing those permissions when you go, man. You're the one granting permission but you're also restricting access at the same time. 08:55Yeah, it's conflicting so today I was on that part where I recognized my restriction and I just let that let that down for a little bit so I can just be brandon handley09:04I love it, I love it. You talked about like a, you know, awareness and becoming more of who you are right. Let's talk about that. What does that mean, you know, becoming more aware of the person of who I am. So who do you know, who do you feel like you are Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program09:19You are your truths. brandon handley09:21You are what you say. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program09:22You are brandon handley09:23Okay, so, I mean, 09:25Right, right. 09:25I mean, so I mean what, what does that mean to you, right. Like I always, I think that when we were talking. I'm not sure if I hit, hit on this or not when you have me on. And thanks for having me on. It was a 09:34Great One 09:35Um, you rise to your level of thinking 09:38Right, right. 09:39So who do you think you are right. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program09:42Right. That makes sense. Well, when you think of who you think you are, it puts people in a place of contrast of going, who, who do I want to be my comparing myself to 09:52There is nobody that's going to do a better job at being you than you and if someone can be a better version of you. Then you've got some real work. 10:01Some people are there. 10:02Right. But who am I right, I am what I say I am I'm happy. 10:07Yeah, that's as simple as I could possibly put it, who I am is also what I am is where I am, as well. 10:15When are you 10:16I'm happening in. Yeah. brandon handley10:17Sorry. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program10:18I'm in a place of happy, you know, brandon handley10:19Right. That's a state of being right like a state. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love it. And you have a great question on your podcast and almost, you know, I think that I'm gonna steal it today for you. 10:30The, you know, and you said you hadn't had the state of awareness yet, right, like, and when did you first fully become aware 10:36Right. Do you feel like you're becoming more aware and, you know, what does that, you know, 10:40What's that mean to you was me to become aware Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program10:43That level of awareness. I've noticed that I'll say over the past two months, right, because I've been surrounded by the most amazing people. 10:53Were all practicing boundaries and communication and connection and actual spiritual enlightenment on a day to day what I've noticed about self awareness is you think you got it and then you level up. 11:05Think you understand it and then you actually understand it and then you feel it, you experience it. 11:12It's a whole different level self awareness for me is coming down to, and I'm going to repeat this absolute truth. 11:21It's not this is what I'm going to say because it's going to sound good, or I don't want to hurt your feelings or I don't want to say this, I'm it's removing those restrictions and being like, Man, I don't like that it's being able to go. That's for me, that isn't for me. 11:35That's a yes for me that's a note to know your level of self awareness stems from not looking at your reflection and going this is two separate entities and I'm connecting and I'm self aware, because I can make choices. 11:49It's literally connecting to as much of your personal truths as possible. It doesn't matter what the truth is because you believe it. 12:00When you're honest with yourself and you're going, I like that. But that's not my thing. I love that because it does this for me. I really enjoy this. 12:11When you can connect with those things because of the truth because of what you've told yourself how you feel about them. 12:18You are more real with everything and everyone. And more importantly, more real with yourself. 12:25And you only do the things that can contribute to your progress through life, your happiness, man. Your success and abundance. It's amazing. So self awareness is first off, recognizing that you're in a place of growth and you don't know everything. brandon handley12:40Right, right, right. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program12:42It's knowing what you like what you don't like even not knowing what you like and don't like is still something that, you know, 12:49So when you're in that place of uncertainty, then you're aware of this, it's looking at these things going. I'm unsure. I'm confused or 12:59I am really centered and focused on this and feels good to me. I'm going to use this belief to guide my behavior in a positive way. So being self aware man is is really just, I'll say complete self awareness is not having to think about this stuff ever you just do brandon handley13:18That yeah well I absolutely i mean but i mean i think that you know some of this stuff is a 13:25You gotta peel back to, you know, societal layers, right, that have kind of been been you know enforced on you right, you're like, Wait a second. All the stuff that I've been taught up into this moment. 13:37It was serving those people 13:39You know, but not necessarily me. It was serving this function, but not my function of growth right type of thing. 13:46So now, and I love it. Right. So let's talk about like how are you applying some of this to your business man like I mean how the other question is like how could you not, but like, you know, 13:57How do you not, but like, how does, how does this, like, you know, like I talked about earlier, you talked about like the robotic guy that you know shows up and just 14:05Eight. And, you know, nine to five or whatever, you know, how is your life different because of this call it a spiritual practice right of your life practice and weaving those together. Talk about that so Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program14:17What I do is build this cerebral super suit for entrepreneurs to connect more deeply with their core audience. 14:24The reality with that is you got to step into the shoes of your clients of your customers of the people you serve. 14:32I don't care if it's the homeless guy. I don't care if it's this. I don't care what solution you're providing or what you're doing in life. 14:38When it comes down to really expanding your business. It doesn't come down to the tech, that's the easy stuff. It doesn't come down to your sequences and your landing pages, all that stuff that's easy connecting with the people that you serve. 14:56comes from a place of oneness. 14:59Of understanding of self. So along the spiritual enlightenment along this journey of personal growth. You're actually opening yourself to understand and feel and have more compassion. 15:12For the people that you're most likely to benefit. More importantly, how they're going to benefit from you. 15:19So for me, I look at oneness and connection that is missing. Now I look at where I'm at. I'm paying attention to how I feel what I'm thinking. 15:29I'm going to state of curiosity. So I'm wondering why that's all that's coming in. I'm going to state of health. So I'm changing the foods have it seen how it affects my body. I'm getting rid of things that don't serve my journey. 15:41And do not serve my focus 15:43And don't really deserve my intention. So when I personally develop as a human being and become more of a human doing 15:53I am putting myself to in a place to thoroughly connect to everyone that I'll be serving which helps me 16:01Develop better wording in my copy when I'm writing an email. It helps me reach out to better people. It helps me attract better clients. 16:07It helps me build better websites helps me build stronger teams, it puts you in a place of connection to who they are in their core. So, the stronger, more 16:21Will stay connected you are to yourself, the more likely you're going to be able to connect to the people that are going to benefit from your product and service. brandon handley16:28Now, I love it, I love it. So, I mean, what I'm hearing in there. Those like you know you determine kind of 16:34How you love yourself and and what serving you. Right, letting go. The things that don't deserve your attention. I love that line, you know, you're going in with your journey and you know be being able to write better copy do better marketing. You're in my mind. 16:51You're tuning yourself. You know, like a crystal tuning. Right. You know, like a radio dial. 16:57To your clients to the people who you can serve. You're like, this is, this is what I'm transmit this is what I'm good at this is what I love to do this is if I was working with you. Oh my god, I would serve you so hard. 17:08Right. 17:09Space, right, like I'm and like you know you're going to be blown away by what I give you, because 17:14You're you you tuned in. Not only did you tuned in. But you to deal with, like, an amplifier on your side you turned it up, you're like, 17:20What's up, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program17:21Yeah, it's amazing. And lately. My clients have been going. They've been they've been reaching out to me personally. 17:27Outside of like business hours, which is the best feeling ever because now we are connected, we are comfortable 17:33We are really considering each other. We're thinking about each other outside of business hours and it's more of a real relationship and a friendship went up. 17:42And what I have noticed is especially over the last couple months is when you are in a place of curiosity and genuine growth and you recognize that you're there. 17:52You listen more you really, you don't have to speak as much, actually there's a reason why we have one mouth and two ears. 18:00were meant to listen and when we listen to people when you deliver what you actually want to say or how you can contribute 18:09Every word that you say has more impact and more value. Now when it comes to connecting with your clients, how it relates to people in a digital space. 18:18I'm telling you this man, the more self aware you are the more connected you are with the universe and how you relate to it. More importantly, how it is relating to you. 18:29When you write your copy. When you say these words when you create that video when you do those things. You're literally creating with purpose and positive intent. 18:40There are times when I will release something, and I'll type it out and I'll put it up into the digital space. 18:47And it will be the same exact words no difference. Everyone's interpreting it differently from their own level of perception, their mind state. 18:56The people that I love working with are the ones that feel the intent behind the message and pick up on the energy when I wrote it and they feel it speaks to them. And those are the people that I attract. This is why I have such a great time doing what I do. brandon handley19:12Now, I love it, I love it. So it's so funny, you brought up purpose and intent because you know I was gonna ask you about that right how to, you know, 19:17We do deliver that message and just like you said, the people that there's there's going to be the one set of people that you know just give you a thumbs up or like or be like, you know, Hey, that was cool. 19:27And then there's going to be the other set of people that are gonna be like wow that was, that was awesome. That was powerful. Right. 19:32And they get, they get kind of where you're coming from on that and it's a totally 19:37That the two different groups, but that doesn't. And what I think I like about that too is that, you know, 19:43The group that doesn't get it today doesn't mean they won't get it tomorrow or see it like you know a little bit later down the road, and they're going to go back to your content and they're gonna be like, I didn't, I didn't even realize you were into all this shit. 19:55Right. Yeah. Yeah. And because because you can. It's funny. 19:59I do that without so my own my own my own stuff. Right. Like, why go and I'll look at other people's content, who I follow it earlier, but I wasn't at my Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program20:09This mind state. Yeah. 20:10You go into through a different lens. brandon handley20:12And I've got a new job or I have a whole brand new lens right whole whole new lens on like, Where have you been, 20:20I never even saw 20:22And so it's really interesting that the content that you put out 20:27People 20:28Come back and take a look later and it'll 20:30It'll be fresh to them. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program20:31I 100% and I was just talking about this yesterday. And the reality is to put the content out. We have to realize there's entire generations of people that are moving through going to go to catch up to us. 20:42We could be saying the perfect thing right now to people that don't even exist yet. 20:47Like 20:48What we put out there is really important. And you think of your overall vibe, man. So as people become more connected and understand 20:55Their power of influence and how we are influenced and just the decisions that they make. 21:00Man, they meet someone may go, Man, I want to create a podcast called spiritual dope. I wonder if that's even a thing could click there's 21:09There is, oh my god, they're talking about all the things I didn't even know it was an idea was connected. I felt it. I mean, I took an action and this is everything I'm looking for and you spark an entire movement, based on your idea man. brandon handley21:23Simple thought simple action. Right. It's just, it's just a matter of taking that action. What's funny. I mean, it's funny you say that though I did prosperity practice before spiritual dope and 21:34Somebody else I spun up prosperity practice like afterwards, after the fact. Like I reached out to her. I was like, I was like, wow, you're doing like the exact same thing I'm doing. I was just like, 21:43So it's really interesting. I'm not sure if you've ever seen like some of those videos or, you know, I forget, like, you know, let's talk about Tesla or being connected to the Akashic Record right or Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program21:52Yeah. brandon handley21:53Hello, say like two thoughts happen at the same time, like 21:56Different receivers. Right, so you'll receive thought somebody else or received thought only one person X on it though, or maybe both people act on it the same time. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program22:04Right. brandon handley22:05And it's not until like later that they converge and and you know you see it show up. So Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program22:10That when I remember saying 22:12interprets that differently. I really never there's no such thing as original I always say this every thoughts already been funk. Like, what are the chances of you thinking of a sentence or something or whatever. 22:22As someone else hasn't already done that you're picking up on something somewhere actually look at that as alignment. 22:29If you're having this thought and it's moving you. That means you may actually be being pushed her poles. 22:34Pulled in that direction. 22:35Hundred percent old yeah brandon handley22:36Yeah. So when we talked, right. We talked about the, the, the idea of everything's already been created. It's just a job. What's your awareness of it right and it's funny that because you talked about the losing time right the future now and the past are all here right now. 22:52Right, so 22:53You've got the, you know, we'll call it the multiverse, right. We've got your, your quantum entanglement kind of guy. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program22:58So, yeah. brandon handley22:59You know you can sit there and you can think for a second, you're like, All right, well, if I make this direction, kind of like a Sherlock Holmes type you know movie right like if I go this direction. This is what will happen right 23:07Right. Or in my case, it's like, you know, the, the, the Green Hornet with like Seth right and he's like sitting there thinking, and he looks like he's gone. Fast as mine is really going five minutes. Anyways, the deal is like Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program23:16I get it. brandon handley23:17You got like all these slices of possible universes, each one of those each thought that you just had they all just happened. 23:24Yeah. He's one of those things happen. 23:26Right, and it's happening right now. So, I mean, 23:28Whichever one you kind of lock into and tune into that's the one is pointing forward. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program23:33Right, the one that you're going to resent so 23:34I'll give everybody a practice right now. I've been doing this. 23:37I've whiteboards all over the house Ivan. What do you walk into every door. There's a small whiteboard and it's it's whiteboard wallpaper. So I put it on the things that I 23:46Hang out around most often. And so what I've been doing is recognizing words. Okay. There's a reason why words stand out to you. So Brendan, I see writing stuff down rather just like this, man. I got notepads and notepads 24:02All this is not just client notes. These are thoughts. 24:04These are things that are standing out to me if I here at once and it gets my attention. It means pay attention if it gets my attention twice. It means focus on that it's get detailed with it. So you'll see random words written all around the house. It'd be like proximity 24:22Right, right. I was Moses. 24:24And then it's just random things and then later I'll go back and connect the dots. Our oneness is 24:30We're, we're basically it's inevitable that we're going to grow based on our environment or as Moses and our proximity to people who are at a higher state of consciousness. 24:38That creates this infinite loop which connects that we're just just doodling manages everything is just total 24:47Brainstorming so if you if it gets your attention once pay attention if it gets your attention twice focus on that. There's a reason why you are being pulled towards that. 24:58Get, get close to whatever that where it is, whatever that thing is if that person if they mentioned somebody towards two people on two separate days mentioned the same person get interested 25:09Yeah, that means that person or that thing is leaving an impact. And it's worth your time. brandon handley25:14Sure. I mean, the person's calling out to you right 25:16If they got what they've got like something something they've got is really, it's meaningful for you so 25:21You know, follow up on that, I love that. Thanks for sharing that. So, one more time. So if it's, you know, if you, if you see it like once you get your interest rate. 25:30See it twice, you know, focusing on that, like, you know, 25:33And then the third time, like, I mean you you're hooked right like you shouldn't be. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program25:36You, you are the third time. brandon handley25:39Right on. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program25:39If it gets your attention. Twice I say this because if we continue to go Wait I need three times right to is the coincidence three is a staple 25:50Rather, if a guy your attention to times. Why are you paying attention. Why is is getting your attention, two times. First off, you could have been thinking everything you could have been doing anything. 26:00It literally stopped you in thought and got your attention. It's there for a reason, our subconscious is very active at that 26:09Moment. And so there's the zoo, there's something you want to get from it. There's something you want to define might be something you just want to explore for understanding but somewhere along the way your mind picked up on something and it needs clarity. There's an open loop somewhere. 26:25Yeah, gotta close this. brandon handley26:27For sure, for sure. And I love that you know programmatic reference right if you've got an open loop. It just keeps going and going and going and going and going until, like, you know, there's some type of closure. Right. 26:38Or control see right Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program26:39You know, just, yeah. Stop, stop at brandon handley26:42The so um you brought up something really cool that I really enjoy too is like the idea of the subconscious always being on the lookout for what you're on the lookout for you. 26:52Programmatically said you set a filter, right, these things are popping up because you set a filter for that. Right. You said you said all right. 27:00Hey, yo, I'm really interested in something like you know give what is something that you're interested in, you know, proximity osmosis where you know and and so now you've got your, your mind and subconscious filter on that. Like for me right now I've got divine and divinity. Right. 27:17That's my thing. 27:18Right. I've got a divine framework set up as my next course right so 27:22Anytime somebody says divine. I'm like, Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program27:24Yeah, it's brandon handley27:25Over there. Amen. Amen. I'm like, What are you saying Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program27:27What do you got the coolest part that so you you look at your mind if we open with this as system. 27:33A series of processes hundred 27:34Percent computers and quantum tech and all that stuff. The quantum computing, man. It's just algorithms. It's going into this than that. If that doesn't this 27:43You're just computing data. 27:45So when you program your mind, based on your intent. This is why I always say define what happiness looks like smells like tastes like feels like 27:56Get like get just seriously go to Amazon buy a bunch of notepads for like six books in just elaborate on what happiness and success looks like to you. Yeah. 28:07Do it right, right, right, right. You're only going to spend like a half hour doing this thing. It's nothing in the illusion of time. brandon handley28:14Well, I caught the the 28:16Real quick, real quick. So I mean, would you would you make them write it down or type it out. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program28:21Does it matter personally 28:23I'm into writing 28:25Okay, now 28:26Now, and I. The reason why is because of the time it takes for me to write it out. If I still commit to that thought. By the end of the sentence, and I still feel good about it. 28:36And it's an actual thought 28:38If in mid sentence. I'm like, this isn't my thing, then it's just a thought. It's just something that popped in here. Probably for contrast 28:45And so when I write it down. I'll say this, there hasn't been a single person that I know that is working on themselves. That isn't writing stuff down 28:54Hasn't been writing a book isn't journaling isn't doing any of this man this is pages I just naturally picked it up. I don't necessarily enjoy writing 29:04But I realized that for me to be honest and express myself. I need to write these things down and go back and label them right 29:13These are all these are all staples in my, in my future, man. brandon handley29:16Now, I love it. I call it 29:18I call it looking at last. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program29:19Thought the programming brother, when we do this when we write all that stuff down or type it out. 29:26Now we get clarity. We're programming our subconscious to look for that. So when we are in a podcast and say, I got a big window right here. And if I was looking for a motorcycle motorcycles make me feel happy. 29:40Anything that's going to get my attention that may resemble a motorcycle. I'm gonna, it's going to get my attention. Oh, is it. No, it's not. It's like somebody you're waiting to arrive. Is that damn is at them. 29:51Right. Your subconscious is going to constantly go out and look for 29:55All the things that satisfy your happiness make you feel successful make you feel to find find divinity, all of those things, man. So programming is really important, but only if it's healthy. brandon handley30:07Well, I mean, I think that, uh, you know, healthy, healthy is also subjective right initially. And I think that even if you begin to 30:18Just even understand the dynamic of what you're talking about like the programming right set yourself up, you make that choice consciously to be programming yourself. Yeah, right. Because up until up until that point. I mean, I'd love to hear when you realize that 30:34You needed to program yourself. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program30:37Yeah, well I was, you know, my story. Man, I'm a liver failure survivor. 30:43Like I was on my deathbed, and I know what it's like for your body to start dying and have to sign away your life surrender to the universe. 30:51I don't know what's happening on it was going on, but all of the decisions every single thought that I've had to that point has led me to my deathbed. Yeah. 31:00And I'm still defending that for some reason, like why am I defending being here. I'm justifying my death. Oh, I lived a good life. I'm doing. Are you serious, I haven't even tried yet I'm 32 at this point on my deathbed, and I'm trying to justify that I lived a long good life. 31:18And I was just meant. That's ridiculous, man. So when I get in. When I start recovering I'm realizing all these thoughts and it wasn't until I started debating my environment. 31:29I'm not in that scene. Am I surrounded by those people am I doing those things am I interested in that stuff. I don't think those thoughts. Why am I still the same person. 31:38Hmm. Why am I still the same guy before I died. This is a whole new me 31:46Right. 31:46But is it really a whole new me, this is, this is just me. 31:51With a new opportunity. So who do I want to be. And then as I call this self auditing. 31:57Then you start to realize where your brain starts to go, you start thinking about happiness and success and these these other things that you want to accomplish. 32:03And then you start recognizing now that's not gonna work. Whoa. I just told me know what the 32:11And I believe that what happened. I just shut myself down. I can do anything. And I said no to me. Why is that a thing. Okay, I can do it. 32:24I am doing it. It's happening go okay and then that thought comes in again. No, no, we're doing this. It's happening. Got it. Go, then it starts to be less and less. And then I'm starting to realize that I have just created a healthy thought pattern. 32:40When it comes to can or cannot there. Is it just is man, you just, are you doing it. 32:45Are you focusing on your happiness. Yes, well then I'm gonna keep doing those things are you building your business. Yeah, I'm gonna keep doing that thing. 32:52I am giving myself permission, I get really good at doing that and anybody can develop healthy habits healthy thought patterns, they can easily reprogram themselves. 33:02From an actual neurological standpoint, we need at least 63 to 64 repetitions of anything to be considered good or for it to be written into our being all those veins in our brain. 33:16Those lumps and things 33:18The valleys. Those are based on repetition. Right. So developing healthy habits. It comes with practice. And once we put ourselves there, man. Then you get really good at practicing. It's not what you're practicing. You just get good at creating good habits. 33:34And then this is kind of all easy peasy. From there it's difficult with there's a lot there's less less difficulty involved right brandon handley33:43I think that it's a you know it's it's the idea that, you know, somebody as they grow older, right, they, they try something once 33:51And it didn't work out. I'll give a couple more shots. But you're saying it's like 64 tries and keep at it and you know it's not like it's you need that repetition. I also you're calling from 34:02Your computer land right I look at that number 64 and I think about like 64 bits, right, like 34:07Yeah yeah so 34:08So that's a, that's interesting. So, you know, you're on your deathbed, and and you you crawl up out of that and you start to recognize 34:18You know, you've got to make these these pattern changes and you've got to develop these healthy life patterns, you know, the challenge that I think that we see is somebody that isn't dying. 34:31That isn't you know isn't dying and has a safe life. Yeah. 34:35Right, I mean you know that they haven't they haven't drunk themselves death, but maybe they have several beers at night and maybe you so 34:44How do we get someone to recognize that they've got patterns that aren't serving them even though they've got quote unquote good are safe life and they can have more Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program34:53Is that familiar do. That's the question is this, is this what you do. Is this your thing. That's where you do these are that that okay 35:02Have you done anything else. Have you tried anything else you realize that you're back in the bar, you have this. How many times have you had this drink. You know what it is. 35:11If you keep doing the same things, you get the same exact results results. Why do you think I became an alcoholic is because I needed more and more and more to feel normal. I've never had this until like yesterday. This is amazing. I'm a 35:27New person holding pineapple. 35:30I had to switch it out, like, what is it synergy raw kombucha 35:35Love this. Right. 35:37Did a hippie. Give it to me. Yes, but does it matter. No, my point with it is that if we keep doing the same things and living in a place of familiarity. 35:46We're never going to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Therefore, we're never going to grow. 35:51Is this as good as it gets. Is this as good as you want it to be. Is this what you really want. Man Seriously, look at this point, you're just writing. Just ask yourself this question, is this what I really want 36:06Is this how I really want to feel if I can relive this my state of being for the end of my existence. Is that good enough for me. Can I achieve more goodness. Is this how you really want it to be nine times out of 10 it's know 36:24Even in a healthy place. 36:27If I asked myself, This Is this really how good you want it to be, or is this really where you want to be. It's really where I want to be right now, but it's only getting better. So know if I get complacent here I get no more results. 36:42I have to continue growing right so we got to look at that complacency and go, you know what, man. Is this as good as it gets. Is this as good as you want it to be right now. 36:51Chances are the same. And then we start taking action. And I know this because just the power of influence from three people, we were able to get an alcoholic to leave the bar. The other day on a podcast and he went home to go play with his dogs. 37:07Hmm. He made the decision to leave the bar, man. 37:11stopped drinking poison not permanently. 37:14But the power of influence is there, he made that decision. It's amazing what happens when you realize that it can be better. brandon handley37:21Yeah, no 100% you know I know when I quit drinking 37:27It has influenced many people right and you know we talked about being pulled you know I was pulled, man. I wasn't, I didn't quit drinking because I didn't like I love drinking Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program37:38Drinking. No, I haven't done it since. brandon handley37:41I have a blast. I you know do stupid shit all day long. 37:46And and but you know it fell away man fell away is something I didn't need anymore. And I found that I could do stupid shit without having to drink. 37:57And I could be there more for people. Right. And so, but but that influence is just like 38:02It's not something we're not doing any force on anybody is because I just feel great. 38:07I get to I get to drive whenever I want. 38:09I get to do and go places, whenever I want. 38:11Because I haven't had a drink. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program38:14It was one of the most interesting compliments. I've received recently is you don't need anything in your system to have a good time. You don't have to smoke. You don't have to drink enough to do anything you're just having a blast all the time right now my 38:31That whoa, you're right. 38:33Well, I know this. 38:34But now you're saying it. So you got my attention. 38:38Whoa, that's cool. And then they're going, I don't, I don't really need to do these things. It's just not really. I mean, I get 38:45You know, it's not necessary. 38:47It's not a staple of my existence anymore. Let's just say that. Yeah. 38:51Wow, man, that's, that's amazing. And people talk about high on life. I get what they're saying. brandon handley38:57Is visual rather than just Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program39:00The Scripture that brandon handley39:01That's it. That's it. That's man. That's exactly what we're here. And what we're doing right 39:07You know, talking about that. And again, you know, being able to live from that space and be successful in business right and leading leading with that right not like that's not your cover. That's not your life, you're not like I go home and I meditate, I go home and I pray. No, I read 39:25When I was with with spirit. Right. 39:27So, I love, I love, I love that you're doing that, and I love you know I see what you're creating 39:33A see the momentum. You've got new built 39:36You know what, what are some other things that you would hit on in this space that you would share with anybody. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program39:42In regards to tech or personal or just just brandon handley39:44In terms of like, you know, you know, 39:46Leading from spirituality. Was it. That's right. Yeah, I heard you say to you came from, like, a hippie. You know, you kind of came from that background to right and that was real similar to me to write hippie mom. 39:58And just 39:59For me, it ends up coming easily because that's how I was raised, I fought it 40:04For a long time, yes. Talk about that. Right. So talk about knowing that it exists, and then being like them being like, Oh, shit. It works. Yeah, I know that resistance. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program40:15Is useless. Honestly, I just posted about this. And yeah, my parents, you know, different what 6070s 40:22Yeah, you know, so they were raised, like that. My parents are definitely hippies, but not like your, your typical hippie not like will say modern day hippies, or what I i actually been thinking about and you're welcome to take this and join me. Not all hippies climb trees like 40:37I want to start a movement. brandon handley40:39Well, that's a special again. That's what spiritual dopes about there is a greatness. And if you go to my website right now says you don't have to wear like beach. You don't have to wear that. 40:47Dress. You don't have to wear sandals. You don't have to 40:50You don't have to put on this uniform to feel this way. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program40:52100%. So we'll talk about that. Absolutely. There's a brandon handley40:55Reverse it what I'm saying. And you see Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program40:57Like we're on the same wavelength. 40:58Yeah, man. And so, so here's the trip is my, my brother, my older brother, he's like a hippie is of all manly man, but he's climbing trees, he's cutting trees down building homes log cabins, he makes his own tea and coffee and everything is from the earth and He is like 100% hippie. 41:15Spiritual Empath all of that stuff. It's really amazing. 41:19Now for me, I always thought that because I'm a tech guy right at artists. I'm an artist in general. 41:25You know I connect with people in different ways, but I've been through an extreme amount of trauma before liver failure. So my trauma. 41:34I've had to process these things differently. And my viewing angle my perspective on will say the hippie approach is it's a little too flu fee for lack of better words this little to brandon handley41:46motherly soft Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program41:48It's not it do, like, just take your shoes off and just seeing one drink like okay brandon handley41:53I want to kick a door. Yeah. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program41:55You can't force this hippie just like religion or anything. brandon handley41:58Right, right, right. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program41:59You have to be open to it. Oh, so on my journey. 42:04As it became more receptive more open, more compassionate towards other people, and more importantly, developed more compassionate towards myself, which I learned from my mentor asara sundry 42:16With that, I started to let down those walls and I started to break those permissions started signing off on my own. brandon handley42:24Certain he Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program42:25Recognizes my permission slip and 42:27Walk down that hall of success and happiness. 42:30And in doing so, I started to realize that people have been telling me this forever. 42:35And I've been to so 42:36Not have it. brandon handley42:38I mean, that's what we talked about earlier, though, too, right, like in writing your content right you're yourself. You're telling people, some things and 42:45They're just not. They're not in that spaceship, they're not they're not there right and it's not until it's not until you kind of come into your own awareness of being and you can look back and be like, Oh my gosh, people been telling me this my entire life. Yeah, right. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program42:59100% brandon handley42:59Now, I love it man. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program43:01It's amazing the way it works. And I'll tell you this, brother. You remember. Oh, sorry about posting with purpose. brandon handley43:06But 43:07I intent, but Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program43:08How do you think I ended up in Texas, dude. 43:10There you go right person, pick up on the intent and the power and energy behind the same message and they open the opportunity like you. We want you to come here. 43:21Right, that's how I ended up in Texas in a series of events had to happen perfectly in alignment. 43:28And I ended up here in the most incredible place I've ever been in my entire life more growth, more happiness more communication more connection. 43:36More forward progress than any other time in my entire life. And I'm beyond humbled all because I posted with purpose man right person felt it. And then we all took action make magic happen. It's really, really cool. brandon handley43:52That's cool, man. So, I mean, you know, again, this is kind of like a follow your bliss type moment right Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program43:57Yeah. brandon handley43:57I love it. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program43:59Though well brandon handley44:00I mean you got you got to do it for yourself. Right. Like each person. Everybody's got everybody's got to find that for themselves, you know, you talk about your truth right you could 44:07You could say, Hey, you know, for me, you know, at this moment, this bliss is my truth right if I'm feeling, you know, and again, I'll talk about that word, you know, vanity, I'm feeling 44:17Or creative source like through me and, you know, or like we talked about resonance and we look at, like, you know, somebody just plucking my divine source string. 44:26Everything has resonated and that was bliss and so I'm following that like somebody, you know, talking to me and just dragging me out and like me, like, yes, this is, oh my gosh, this is uncommon. I'm on my way you 44:37Know how this is going to end. Oh yeah, they are they aware of the path. Now look, you're always on your path right it's like you've got a you're always on your path you're never all fit. It's just, you've got to make that decision. 44:48To to recognize that you're walking. It's at your part of it that you're being it right Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program44:53You know, want to man. 44:54Like, think of it. Think of it like this in like I if I go to the doctors right now and they they put a needle in my arm. Yeah, that's gonna be my only, you know, uncomfortable. I'm not worried about the needle, man. I'm worried about the results. 45:06They want to see how unhealthy. I really am. 45:09Don't want to like surrender to that. 45:11Right. Some people really aren't. They're not good at walking through the doors, man. brandon handley45:15Yeah. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program45:15You're not good at that. That's their out of practice. 45:18And sometimes we got to kick those doors down, they gotta be receptive on the other end. You've got to kick those doors down for yourself. 45:24Man, once you open that door now. 45:27Then you can see the path. brandon handley45:29Yeah. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program45:29And know that you're on it. 45:31And then you can frolic down that bitch as much as you want. You know I'm saying, like, what are 45:34You going to do brandon handley45:36All that. Well, I mean, look, you can't make a wrong decision. You know a lot of people 45:40You know that they've got their systems in place that work for them. And if you get off of their system, they're going to come up and say, Well, well, well, you got it. You're, you're off your system and you're off your path, but 45:50That's not true. You're off of what their path would be you're off and out of their system and so have faith in yourself, man. I love what you're doing, I love, I love that. That's what you know you've developed like kind of this core 46:02Being again and you're, you know, you're, you're leading with that and you're in that space. That's awesome. Where should I send people to go meet up with you and find out more about you. Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program46:12Absolutely. So my primary focus right now is the mantis program so mantis is every single thing that I've ever learned tops mastered 46:25All in one place in regards to not just evolving as a human being but evolving into the strongest and most accurate business mindset that you could ever possibly hope to get yourself into 46:38It's the reason why I can operate at a peak state of performance for forever and cost deliver content get things done while having a family doing all that stuff. 46:48So I want to show people exactly how they can implement 46:52These specific concepts into their life. But more importantly, there's so many people who don't take the necessary steps because they go all but there's technology, there's this and I don't understand that. 47:03I cover it all, every single aspect. So you don't have to be able to business or even bill yourself without fear man like you don't have to do that. You don't have to restrict yourself. And it's basically what I now that I say I give people the permission to evolve as a human. 47:19And then, yeah, so that's the mantis program. So the mantis program com 47:24And then of course graders Academy man the CCA it's an extension of the mantas program. This is for people who want to build an online program. 47:33I have numerous clients 2020 is packed with people who are going. I know what a lot of information. The online learning industry is a $34 billion industry. 47:44If you know something, and you want to get it out there and develop a program for people to get their hands on. 47:51And I hope people evolve through that process developed a program and then also handle all the tech and all that stuff with with just with ease. 48:00Then yeah, then I'm gonna communication artist. So I help people communicate more deeply with their, their core audience, not just as a servant leader, but as a professional graphic designer 20 years in Photoshop. 48:12And yeah and then for everybody who already has a message or is looking to dominate the second most powerful website on the planet YouTube 48:21I have the Hitchhiker's Guide to video marketing and that's showing you, not just how to get video views up into the millions 48:27But I'm actually showing you how to build a complete online digital business or any product or service that you're working on. Or like to get your hands on. That's the secret behind the sauce. brandon handley48:40Yeah, man, that was Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program48:41What 48:42What is there, man. So you can also find me on Facebook or is Cody rain and then you could also go to Cody rain calm. If you guys want to learn more about me or jump on my calendar, we can have a chat about you and your business. brandon handley48:53Awesome, man. Thanks for joining into Kohdi Rayne - The Mantis Program48:56Thank you, man, I appreciate you.

Download Sermon Slides Revelation 9;11:15-19And the fifth angel blew his trumpet, and I saw a star fallen from heaven to earth, and he was given the key to the shaft of the bottomless pit. 2 He opened the shaft of the bottomless pit, and from the shaft rose smoke like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened with the smoke from the shaft. 3 Then from the smoke came locusts on the earth, and they were given power like the power of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone. 6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. 10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.12 The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.13 Then the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar before God,14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand; I heard their number. 17 And this is how I saw the horses in my vision and those who rode them: they wore breastplates the color of fire and of sapphire[c] and of sulfur, and the heads of the horses were like lions' heads, and fire and smoke and sulfur came out of their mouths. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,21 nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying,“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was,for you have taken your great power and begun to reign.18 The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged,and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great,and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE COMPLETE SERVICE

Acts 27:1-28:10 Paul Sails for Rome And when it was decidedthatwe should sail for Italy, they delivered Paul and some other prisoners to a centurion of the AugustanCohort named Julius.2And embarking ina ship of Adramyttium, which was about to sail to the ports along the coast of Asia, we put to sea, accompanied byAristarchus, a Macedonian from Thessalonica.3The next day we put in at Sidon. AndJuliustreated Paul kindly andgave him leave to go to his friends and be cared for.4And putting out to sea from there we sailed under the lee of Cyprus, because the winds were against us.5And when we had sailed across the open sea along the coast of Cilicia and Pamphylia, we came to Myra in Lycia.6There the centurion founda ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy and put us on board.7We sailed slowly for a number of days and arrived with difficulty off Cnidus, and as the wind did not allow us to go farther, we sailed under the lee of Crete off Salmone.8Coasting along it with difficulty, we came to a place called Fair Havens, near which was the city of Lasea. 9Since much time had passed, and the voyage was now dangerous because eventhe Fastwas already over, Paul advised them,10saying, Sirs, I perceive that the voyage will be withinjury and much loss, not only of the cargo and the ship, but also of our lives.11But the centurion paid more attention tothe pilot and to the owner of the ship than to what Paul said.12And because the harbor was not suitable to spend the winter in, the majority decided to put out to sea from there, on the chance that somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing both southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there. The Storm at Sea 13Now when the south wind blew gently, supposing that theyhad obtained their purpose, they weighed anchor and sailed along Crete, close to the shore.14But soon a tempestuous wind, called the northeaster,struck down from the land.15And when the ship was caught and could not face the wind, we gave way to it and were driven along.16Running under the lee of a small island called Cauda,we managed with difficulty to secure the ships boat.17Afterhoisting it up, they used supports to undergird the ship. Then, fearing that they wouldrun aground on the Syrtis, they lowered the gear,and thus they were driven along.18Since we were violently storm-tossed, they began the next dayto jettison the cargo.19And on the third day they threw the ships tackle overboard with their own hands.20When neither sun nor stars appeared for manydays, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope of our being saved was at last abandoned. 21Since they had been without food for a long time, Paul stood up among them and said, Men,you shouldhave listened to me and not have set sail from Crete and incurred thisinjury and loss.22Yet now I urge you totake heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship.23For this very nighttherestood before mean angel of the God to whom I belong andwhom I worship,24and he said, Do not be afraid, Paul;you must stand before Caesar. And behold,God has granted you all those who sail with you.25So take heart, men, for I have faith in God that it will be exactly as I have been told.26Butwe mustrun aground on some island. 27When the fourteenth night had come, as we were being driven across the Adriatic Sea, about midnight the sailors suspected that they were nearing land.28So they took a sounding and found twenty fathoms.A little farther on they took a sounding again and found fifteen fathoms.29And fearing that we mightrun on the rocks, they let down four anchors from the stern and prayed for day to come.30And asthe sailors were seeking to escape from the ship, and had loweredthe ships boat into the sea under pretense of laying out anchors from the bow,31Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, Unless these men stay in the ship, you cannot be saved.32Then the soldiers cut away the ropes of the ships boat and let it go. 33As day was about to dawn, Paul urged them all to take some food, saying, Today is the fourteenth day that you have continued in suspense and without food, having taken nothing.34Therefore I urge you to take some food. For it will give you strength,fornot ahair is to perish from the head of any of you.35And when he had said these things, he took bread, andgiving thanks to God in the presence of all he broke it and began to eat.36Then they allwere encouraged and ate some food themselves.37(We were in all 276persons in the ship.)38And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship, throwing out the wheat into the sea. The Shipwreck 39Now when it was day,they did not recognize the land, but they noticed a bay with a beach, on which they planned if possible to run the ship ashore.40So they cast off the anchors and left them in the sea, at the same time loosening the ropes that tied the rudders. Then hoisting the foresail to the wind they made for the beach.41But striking a reef,they ran the vessel aground. The bow stuck and remained immovable, and the stern was being broken up by the surf.42The soldiers plan was to kill the prisoners, lest any should swim away and escape.43But the centurion,wishing to save Paul, kept them from carrying out their plan. He ordered those who could swim to jump overboard first and make for the land,44and the rest on planks or on pieces of the ship.And so it was thatall were brought safely to land. Paul on Malta 28After we were brought safely through,we then learned thatthe island was called Malta.2The native peopleshowed us unusualkindness, for they kindled a fire and welcomed us all, because it had begun to rain and was cold.3When Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks and put them on the fire, a viper came out because of the heat and fastened on his hand.4Whenthe native people saw the creature hanging from his hand, they said to one another,No doubt this man is a murderer. Though he has escaped from the sea,Justicehas not allowed him to live.5He,however,shook off the creature into the fire and suffered no harm.6They were waiting for him to swell up or suddenly fall down dead. But when they had waited a long time and saw no misfortune come to him,they changed their minds andsaid that he was a god. 7Now in the neighborhood of that place were lands belonging to the chief man of the island, named Publius, who received us and entertained us hospitably for three days.8It happened that the father of Publius lay sick with fever and dysentery. And Paul visited him andprayed, andputting his hands on him, healed him.9And when this had taken place, the rest of the people on the island who had diseases also came and were cured.10They also honored us greatly,and when we were about to sail, they put on board whatever we needed.

This week @badgamerelite talks about his experiences as a new player in multiplayer, co-op games and how we should care for new people in our own communities.Deuteronomy 10:19And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.Luke 14:13-14But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.Sponsored by lifepromotions.org

Jeremiah 1:5“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”Joshua 1:9Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.”2 Corinthians 5:17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Ephesians 2:10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.Luke 12:7Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows.Isaiah 41:10Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.Zephaniah 3:17The Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save; he will rejoice over you with gladness; he will quiet you by his love; he will exult over you with loud singing.Galatians 2:20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.Philippians 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,Ephesians 2:22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.1 Corinthians 12:27Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.Psalm 27:10For my father and my mother have forsaken me, but the Lord will take me in1 Peter 5:6-7Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.Ephesians 2:19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,Ephesians 1:3-6Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,Romans 5:8But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Philippians 4:13I can do all things through him who strengthens me.Ephesians 2:8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,Romans 8:31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Isaiah 43:4Because you are precious in my eyes, and honored, and I love you, I give men in return for you, peoples in exchange for your life.Romans 6:23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Acts 1:8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”Psalm 139:1-24To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. ...1 John 4:10In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.1 John 3:1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are.1 Peter 5:6-76 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, Casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.2 Thessalonians 3:3But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.Philippians 4:19And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.1 Corinthians 15:57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.Romans 8:38-39For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Romans 8:28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.1 Peter 2:9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.2 Timothy 1:7For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.2 Corinthians 5:21For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.1 Corinthians 6:19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,Romans 8:37-39No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.Romans 5:1Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.Matthew 5:14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.Isaiah 53:5But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.Psalm 86:15But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.Deuteronomy 7:9Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,Revelation 3:20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.1 John 4:16So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.John 1:12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,Luke 1:37For nothing will be impossible with God.”Isaiah 26:3You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you, because he trusts in you.Psalm 138:3On the day I called, you answered me; my strength of soul you increased.Psalm 136:26Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures forever.Exodus 15:2The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him.1 John 3:1-3See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.2 Peter 1:3His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,Colossians 3:12Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,Ephesians 6:10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.Ephesians 5:8For at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of lightEphesians 4:24And to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness John 15:15No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.Isaiah 12:2“Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid; for the Lord God is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation.”Proverbs 3:5-6Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.Psalm 118:6The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?Deuteronomy 31:6Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake youRevelation 21:3-4And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”The Lord bless you(A)‘and keep you;(B)25 the Lord make his face shine on you(C)and be gracious to you;(D)26 the Lord turn his face(E) toward youand give you peace.asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe.6 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.I pray that you would be surrounded by and filled with and located in and anchored to our Savior Jesus Christ Christ above you that you may walk in wisdom and rest in his love. Christ below you that you may never stumble or fall Christ on your right in your strength Christ on your left and your weakness Christ going before you to prepare the way for you And Christ walking behind you to clean up all your messes. Christ within you filling you to overflowing today, tomorrow and forever AMEN.

Acts 19:120 (ESV) Paul in Ephesus 19And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2And he said to them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? And they said, No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit. 3And he said, Into what then were you baptized? They said, Into Johns baptism. 4And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus. 5On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. 7There were about twelve men in all. 8And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God. 9But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus. 10This continued for two years, so that all the residents of Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks. The Sons of Sceva 11And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims. 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you? 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled. 18Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. 19And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20So the word of the Lord continued to increase and prevail mightily.

Strange Happy Hour!Important Sh!t:Mark “Dispatcher” Plover:- WWDC 2020 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEZhD3J89ZE - https://www.cnet.com/news/everything-apple-just-announced-at-wwdc-2020-ios-14-macos-big-sur-new-mac-chips/“Handsome John” Pettit:- Microsoft shuts down Mixer for deal with Facebook Gaming: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21299032/microsoft-mixer-closing-facebook-gaming-partnership-xcloud-features - Ninja and Shroud payouts: https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1275145243478892544?s=20 - Former employee calls out racism in management: https://kotaku.com/former-mixer-employee-calls-out-racism-in-management-1844126059Brent “Jesterhead” Metcalfe:- Pokemon Presents 6/17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVctuQTeaI - Recap if you prefer to read: https://nintendoeverything.com/pokemon-presents-recap-announcement-june-17-2020/ Last Call!:Cheers!: Let’s introduce our individual special guests, since we are once again recording from afar.Shout outs:- Our Discord: https://discord.gg/bPZNJ7Weekly Reading: - How DC just broke up the biggest comic monopoly: https://www.ign.com/articles/dc-diamond-comics-distributor-wars-monopoly-marvel - The time that Studio Ghibli stood up to Harvey Weinstein with a samurai sword: https://kotaku.com/the-time-studio-ghibli-stood-up-to-harvey-weinstein-wit-1823223914 Cool @ss Sh!t: - This War of Mine added to Poland’s High School reading list: https://kotaku.com/this-war-of-mine-added-to-polands-high-school-reading-l-1844086680 Question of the Week:- If you could replace war with another activity to settle things between countries, what would that be? House Selection:- Rocksteady supposedly working on new Suicide Squad game: https://www.gameinformer.com/2020/06/22/report-rocksteady-studios-working-on-suicide-squad-game - Ready at Dawn acquired by Facebook: https://www.ign.com/articles/facebook-acquires-the-order-1886-developer-ready-at-dawn - EA Plays stream: https://kotaku.com/everything-announced-at-ea-play-live-2020-1844087162 - Google planning next Stadia event for July 14th: https://www.siliconera.com/the-next-google-stadia-connect-will-be-july-14-2020/ - More details on the Spider-Man: Miles Morales game: https://blog.playstation.com/2020/06/18/marvels-spider-man-miles-morales-an-update-from-insomniac-games/- Blizzard bans thousands in WoW Classic accounts for bots: https://kotaku.com/blizzard-bans-thousands-of-world-of-warcraft-classic-ac-1844078884- Michael Keaton in talks to play Batman in The Flash film: https://www.ign.com/articles/flash-movie-dc-michael-keaton-batman-bruce-wayne - Joel Shumacher has died at age 80: https://www.ign.com/articles/joel-schumacher-dead - One Piece creator temporarily waives copyright for fans to make money off of LINE stickers: https://www.siliconera.com/one-piece-line-creator-waves-copyright-allowing-fans-to-make-profit-from-line-stickers/ - Nintendo may be moving away from mobile development: https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-mobile-no-games-in-development - Walking Dead comic returns this summer: https://www.ign.com/articles/the-walking-dead-returns-negan-lives-comic-robert-kirkman - Cyberpunk 2077 delayed to November: https://www.ign.com/articles/cyberpunk-2077-delayed-to-november-19And, as always, feel free to reach out to any one of the wonderful hosts in any capacity. You reach the Dispatcher on Twitter @DuhFr33k (https://twitter.com/DuhFr33k), Handsome John @HandsomeJohnP (https://twitter.com/HandsomeJohnP), and the Jesterhead himself @Jesterhead0302 (https://twitter.com/Jesterhead0302). Also, don’t be afraid to talk to us down in the comments. We always enjoy a good conversation, in case you didn’t notice ;)

Acts 18:123 (ESV) Paul in Corinth 18After this Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. 2And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. And he went to see them, 3and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade. 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks. 5When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 6And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles. 7And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. 8Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized. 9And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, 10for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.11And he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. 12But when Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him before the tribunal, 13saying, This man is persuading people to worship God contrary to the law. 14But when Paul was about to open his mouth, Gallio said to the Jews, If it were a matter of wrongdoing or vicious crime, O Jews, I would have reason to accept your complaint. 15But since it is a matter of questions about words and names and your own law, see to it yourselves. I refuse to be a judge of these things. 16And he drove them from the tribunal. 17And they all seized Sosthenes, the ruler of the synagogue, and beat him in front of the tribunal. But Gallio paid no attention to any of this. Paul Returns to Antioch 18After this, Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brothers and set sail for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he had cut his hair, for he was under a vow. 19And they came to Ephesus, and he left them there, but he himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews. 20When they asked him to stay for a longer period, he declined. 21But on taking leave of them he said, I will return to you if God wills, and he set sail from Ephesus. 22When he had landed at Caesarea, he went up and greeted the church, and then went down to Antioch. 23After spending some time there, he departed and went from one place to the next through the region of Galatia and Phrygia, strengthening all the disciples.

Acts 17:1634 (ESV) Paul in Athens 16Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. 18Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, What does this babbler wish to say? Others said, He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinitiesbecause he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean. 21Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. Paul Addresses the Areopagus 22So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: To the unknown god. What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28for In him we live and move and have our being; as even some of your own poets have said, For we are indeed his offspring. 29Being then Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead. 32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, We will hear you again about this. 33So Paul went out from their midst. 34But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

18Now the birth of Jesus Christe took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothedf to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. 19And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly. 20But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). 24When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, 25but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

17And Cain had relations with his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. Then Cain built a city and named it after his son Enoch. 18Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methusael, and Methusael was the father of Lamech. 19And […]

17And Cain had relations with his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. Then Cain built a city and named it after his son Enoch. 18Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methusael, and Methusael was the father of Lamech. 19And […]

Matthew 4:12–25 12When [Jesus] heard that John had been arrested, he withdrew into Galilee. 13And leaving Nazareth he went and lived in Capernaum by the sea, in the territory of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14so that what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: 15“The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali,     the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles— 16the people dwelling in darkness     have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death,     on them a light has dawned.” 17From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”     18While walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon (who is called Peter) and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen. 19And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20Immediately they left their nets and followed him. 21And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them. 22Immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.     23And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people. 24So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them. 25And great crowds followed him from Galilee and the Decapolis, and from Jerusalem and Judea, and from beyond the Jordan.

On this episode we talk about the importance of us to be thankful from the heart. We take a look at the story found in Luke 17:11-19 about the ten lepers and why one of the lepers came back to Jesus to thank him for his healing. We look in depth into this account and how we as believers today can apply what this thankful leper did to our lives no matter what our circumstances are at the moment. Luke 17:11-19 11And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off: 13And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us. 14And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed. 15And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God, 16And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan. 17And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine? 18There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger. 19And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole. I Thessalonians 5:16-18 16Rejoice evermore. 17Pray without ceasing. 18In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. Read Transcript: https://bit.ly/37zvMf6 Our Daily Strength Devotional App: http://ourdailystrength.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Website: http://10kworlds.com Anchor FM: https://anchor.fm/ten-thousand-worlds Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/10thousandworlds Youtube: https://bit.ly/2kb9Rak ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Listen on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2kodmdD Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2kodbyZ Listen on Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/2kR4yNG --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ten-thousand-worlds/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ten-thousand-worlds/support

The Damascus Road 1Now Saul was still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord. He went to the high priest 2and requested letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women who belonged to the Way, he might bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he traveled and was nearing Damascus, a light from heaven suddenly flashed around him. 4Falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5“Who are you, Lord?” Saul said. “I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting,” he replied. 6“But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” 7The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the sound but seeing no one. 8Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing. So they took him by the hand and led him into Damascus. 9He was unable to see for three days and did not eat or drink. Saul’s Baptism 10There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias, and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” “Here I am, Lord,” he replied. 11 “Get up and go to the street called Straight,” the Lord said to him, “to the house of Judas, and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, since he is praying there. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and placing his hands on him so that he may regain his sight.” 13“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard from many people about this man, how much harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has authority here from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.” 15But the Lord said to him, “Go, for this man is my chosen instrument to take my name to Gentiles, kings, and Israelites. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” 17Ananias went and entered the house. He placed his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road you were traveling, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18At once something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized. 19And after taking some food, he regained his strength.

18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” 19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would […]

After a year of asking and waiting, Donald finally got permission from his mom to join the church when he was 15. Being a part of this new church family felt like the right next step for this Jamaican immigrant living in Florida, but he soon learned that while the restored gospel was perfect, the people weren’t. In this story, Donald shares the moments that left him wondering about his place in the body of Christ and what helped him to chose faith and forgiveness. But I can tell you instead of the "why", I can tell you how you move forward. And how we move forward is by focusing on Jesus Christ because we're all, black, white, Jew, gentile, green, whatever color you are, We are all His sons and daughters. SHOW NOTES We met Donald Kelly and his wife Cristina when we were filming in Florida in the fall of 2017. In fact, the audio for this story was taken from the video that we made of donald for the VIEWPOINT series. You can watch the video HERE on our youtube channel.  TRANSCRIPT This episode of This is the gospel is sponsored by BookshelfPLUS+ .  --- With BookshelfPLUS+ you can have unlimited access to every audio book that Deseret Book has ever released from all your favorite authors -- fiction, non-fiction, even the newest books like Sheri Dew's "Insights from a Prophet's Life" which is full of stories, and well, insights from President Nelson's extraordinary life of service Read by the author.00:00:25So if you want more uplifting, good stories after this episode is over, try BookshelfPLUS+ free for 30 days by visiting deseretbook.com/thisisthegospel.00:00:48KaRyn: Welcome to "This Is the Gospel", an LDS Living podcast where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith every day. I'm your host, KaRyn Lay. There are now over 16 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints around the world. And when you think about it, that's a lot of people who've put their hearts and their souls into the hands of a church family seeking opportunities to learn together and grow together as we individually work towards our salvation. That's a lot of people from a lot of different cultures meeting in the proverbial chapel every Sunday.00:01:26I come from a family with seven kids so I understand that the bigger the family the more room there is to feel neglected, misunderstood, or forgotten or in some cases, even overly protective of your status in the family structure. In fact, I understand this because my favorite book when I was a little girl was called "Noisy Nora" (by Rosemary Wells) and it was about a mouse who was constantly making noise just so her family wouldn't forget she existed When a new baby came. So, I get it. But here's the other thing that I know about big families. They also give us more opportunities to brush up against the kind of, what I like to call, "divine friction" that can only come from so many different personalities, backgrounds, races, and cultures engaged in the work of God. And that "divine friction" asks us to change and to be better. Sometimes we get it right. And sometimes we get it wrong.00:02:20Today our story comes from Donald, whose conversion at 15 (sic) and membership in the Church was often complicated by some of this divine friction around race. As a black member living in a predominantly white stake of the church in Florida, his experience with racism sometimes left him wondering about his place in that body of Christ. How he chose faith and forgiveness is a story that truly is the Gospel.00:02:45Here's Donald:00:02:48DONALD: I'm 33 years old. I was 31 and I was called to be a bishop and it was definitely something that I was not expecting. He definitely has a lot of trust.00:03:00Anyone who wants to be a Bishop... they're more than welcome to be the Bishop. It's a lot of work when you're a bishop.00:03:08Why I do what I do? For the money, man!!! (laughter) It's all about the money -- the bling bling, baby. (laughter)00:03:15The reason why I do what I do because I feel people need to know it.00:03:20My life has been changed because of the truthfulness of the Gospel, the direction that it gave me.... and I know that there is more, there are more Donalds and out there and more people who need that direction. And that's why I do what I do . It's because of the love Jesus had for me and spared me so I can go and do his work and help spare somebody else.00:03:45I grew up in Jamaica and moved to the United States when I was nine years old and my mom was a single parent raising two kids. Then my sister came along later on and there was three of us. And when I moved... in Jamaica they refer to anyone in the United States-- you're a "Yankee" so the Jamaican term, "You're a Yankee man, turned yankee man no junior!"00:04:09My mom came to the United States for a better opportunity. Jamaica economy had different challenges especially in the early 90s.00:04:17So she came here with hopes of a better life earning more money and also providing for us. Giving us the opportunity as her children to get quality education and to get an opportunity just to better ourselves. My mom did everything to make sure that opportunity came through. She worked hard. She is a hard worker. She still works right now. You're not a Jamaican unless you have two jobs. So she embodied that, where she worked multiple jobs and just, I call it "the hustle" hustled and did whatever she could to provide for us. And it didn't seem like much -- making thirty thousand dollars a year.00:04:53I grew up in a not so safe neighborhood and it was... a lot of us in the neighborhood were poor and some people were poor and didn't know it. But, some of us knew it. I knew that I was poor but my mom always made sure we had what we needed. We never went hungry. We always had food and we always somehow found out a way to get clothes... if we got to McDonald's? That was cool. (lau00:05:23My childhood growing up and my early adolescent going into teenage years, I went to middle school, Bear Lakes Middle School and that was.... I had some friends who were kind of rough around the edges and my mom raised us as a good good kid. I never drank, never smoked ...I never never saw her drink or smoke and it was just this good environment and it was... it rubbed off on me. So when I selected friends, I just selected friends who were people in the neighborhood and even though they did things that I didn't necessarily agree with or approve of, they were friends. We hung out with them. So the four of us one evening, we were hanging around in the neighborhood and went to this fence and we were being teenage boys and the neighbors thought we were breaking into his house... came outside and he chased us. I got caught out of the four of us and I was arrested that evening and wasn't taken to jail but I was booked and released back to my mom. And I was put on house detention - no bands on your legs, you're just put on house detention so I just was home and my mom being a strict Jamaican mother, she said, (donald in Jamaican accent) "you're grounded for life." So I was was... I was grounded for ever. Pretty much that was my prison was home.00:06:44we went to church every so often. After being arrested and being at home and now having a lot of time to myself, a lot of time to think, I knew I need to get back into a church. I know what church or any church. So one of my friends, Ralston Campbell, Dane we called him. He introduced me to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints. Invited me at a National Junior Honor Society meeting to come to scouts and play basketball on Tuesday nigh00:07:09I blew him off but then he reminded me and invited me again and I took him up on it. I went to church, my first time was on Easter Sunday 1999. I think it was a General Conference that time and then I had all these questions and he said, "I have two friends for you." and introduced me to the missionaries. So I started taking lessons and the missionaries invited my mom to take the lessons and to learn about it but she was stuck in her ways and didn't want to learn anything about it. But didn't have a big deal with me go to church and it was a good thing for me at that time of my life.00:07:41Growing up in Jamaica is really interesting though. People don't get baptized until you're later. It's kind of like you're done making all your mistakes in life -- your sinning. Your're an adult, you understand what you're doing. So when I approached her that I wanted to get baptized... I started going to church April and I approached her really soon after getting to the lessons that I want to be baptized. And she said, "no, you need to wait until you're 18."00:08:03and then she pushed it back "until you're 16." So several months later I asked her and she said, "no." So the missionaries were transitioning through and then it came down to the end of the year was December and I really want to get baptized so I asked her. I remember seeing all my friends passing the sacrament and I was like I want to do this too. And she said no.00:08:23It Was a fast Sunday so all of us the teachers and the young men's and some of the members they said we're gonna do a joint fast. And we fasted that my mom would allow me to get baptized. She had said at 16 at this time and I just turned 15. So we went that Sunday again in December. I asked her and she said, "yes, you can get baptized." It was amazing. So that gave me a huge huge testimony of fasting. And if you have something, you bring it to Lord to help you. And I was baptized when I was 15.00:08:58We went on this high adventure (scout campout) and I remember we were in North Carolina and there's, you know, five six of us kids... scouts... that were black and the majority of us were just white and we all friends and so forth. But we're gathered together and some of the other kids had doubts about the Church and about the Book of Mormon and the blacks and the priesthood and I remember that really hitting me.00:09:21And that was the one time I started to think like, "well, is something wrong here? Is something wrong with the with the Church... is something wrong with that?" And I really... I stopped reading the Book of Mormon. You know, something doesn't seem like it's right. I had good leaders at the time who gave me good mentorship and guidance and taught me to study the scriptures, to go to get an answer. So I read the Bible and I read the Book of Mormon and I would study and picked up and I came to know that it was true but it's still in the back of your mind.00:09:54The High school I went to was predominantly white and I didn't have any black leaders. I didn't necessarily see it as an issue but one time there was a guy named brother Carter and he came to our ward and he was a bishop previously. But seeing him in the churchv- that he was a black man that was a bishop at one point. It was like, "that is cool." I remember the day that when I did see that, it was awakening to say - oh, Brother Carter. It just gave me that vision that - oh, you know, we can have opportunities." It was just interesting. It was just different.00:10:29For the majority of our life my mom was a single mom raising us and my stepfather was in the picture for a little bit of the time. He was... it was an abusive situation... physically abuse, domestic abuse from my mom and he was in the picture for a few years and he was thrown in jail.00:10:45So that left us with a financial situation. My mom was recovering from abuse and missed a couple of weeks of work. And that led us to being evicted from our home. I remember coming home seeing the fluorescent orange sheet of paper on the door and you know what it was because you've seen it before in the neighborhood. Somebody is getting evicted. And that was us.00:11:07I knew things were rough but not that bad. And we threw everything in a small storage unit and my mom, brother, and sister went to live with one of my cousins on the other side of town and I stayed with another relative, a cousin, because that was the busing route to my high school.00:11:25One of my best friends in the Church is Andrew. So we always hung out, always spent time together. a few of us together. And so when I stopped we got evicted and I lived with my cousin and his small apartment. I stopped going to seminary because I didn't have my rides to pick me up and take me to seminary anymore so he knew something was wrong. So I just pulled it out of me and I told them what was going on. That we were evicted and family was separated and I was staying with my cousin in the laundry room. He said, "well you know, we're already brothers already like brothers. I think my parents be fine you come and stay with us."00:12:00And I went home with them that evening and they said, "Of course you can stay with us." And I used to live with them for about a year until my mom got back on her feet. T hey have seven kids and always the extra was Donald. I remember the youngest son Matthew, He was so confused because he was a little kid at a time when I lived with them...00:12:21but they would say, "yeah we have six kids and seven kids." and hew was like, "What about Donald?" (laughter) And it was always uh... cute.00:12:30My friend who introduced me to the church at 14, He's also Jamaican and black American as well. And his mom left the Church... he left the Church too.00:12:46There was that thing that started it... someone at the time was teaching Relief Society and said (or some meetings) said that the blacks were the seed of Cain and taught that false doctrine and it was very difficult for her. I can see how tough it was. So not seeing her come to church and not seeing Dane come to church, It was really hard for me to figure out how I was going to get to church.00:13:13I knew I was right. I knew deep down that it was right. So I kept going and it was again that escape for me and I went and went. Those questions came later on. There were times... I remember one situation where a girl that I had interest in and she had interest in me, But her parents would not approve because the fact that I was black and it's that that idea. How do you feel about that? When people read and misunderstand the Book of Mormon and to say don't mix your your seed with someone... like, what did I do? And that was really a difficult time to grasp that again.00:13:47But the Church was like the thing for me. It was an escape away from, you know growing up and in the way I grew up, in the environment. And being in a wholesome environment... having a vision. And I did get my Eagle Scout and naturally that's the next progression. You go on a mission. And I knew I wanted to but going on a mission I got called to Detroit Michigan. And Detroit. It's a lot of African-Americans, right? And being a black missionary in Detroit it was like a big deal for our mission. So I got placed in the inner city a lot of times and it was it was really neat to be in the city. But stuff came up.00:14:24Out of the hundred and fifty, one hundred and twenty missionaries only a couple that are black, the population of the Church majority are not black. So people ask that question, "how can you be a part of a church like that?" And it brought me to think a lot. I knew that this was the Church of Jesus Christ and knew it was restored. There are things that I didn't understand and it brought a lot of questions and I can humbly say it did bring me to question certain things.00:14:53"Is this the right place for me? Is this correct? How come blacks couldn't have the priesthood?" and and it brought me to my knees a lot to study and to try to understand. How can I teach people, how can I go out every single day and tell people that this is a church for them when no one looks like them.00:15:16The cool thing about Detroit, they saw us as Christ followers -- Christians who were out there doing the Lord's work... but it was... there was a tension. The members in Detroit, you have to be rock solid. You have to gain that testimony to know that, "yes, I understand there were issues in the past but I know without a shadow of a doubt that is true."00:15:35And I've seen so many of those members that became the bedrock and the foundation in establishing the Church. When Gladys Knight became a member of the Church that... she is in Detroit ... that was pretty big as well because that helped people understand somebody who's prominent who is African-American as well was also remember the Church. It brought the church out of this obscurity that it's a church for everyone.00:15:57The history in the past happened but it doesn't mean that the Church isn't Christ's Church. Things happen. That helped to see those strong members and that guided us and gave us direction and companions who are just like you know you saw us brothers who were just really awesome. I can tell you the thing that kept me going was just getting on your knees and praying and knowing that Jesus is the Christ that he truly did die for my sins and he truly did made the way. He (was) resurrected and gave us an opportunity. That doctrine, that ideology is the bedrock that kept me grounded. To understand that this is Jesus' work. It was that guidance that helped me through. Through all of that even understanding that people make mistakes and that we're not perfect and if that was the case there would be no need for the Atonement. Made me realize that everyone makes mistakes and people can repent and can change and in due time they will come to understand and I hope they did and I hope they do.00:17:02But for me, it doesn't make sense to hold a grudge or to be angry. It makes sense to keep going in the testimony of Jesus Christ and I do have and that has guided me and forged a path and kept me going and led me to the opportunities in life I have today .00:17:22Being a bishop and being African-American, younger folks come to me and ask, "Well,I have trouble with this. I have concerns about this. And why did this happen in the past in the Church?"00:17:33And some of them, I really don't have answers to and I think that's one of the interesting thing with life. We don't get answers to everything.00:17:39And I remember, being one of the times as early as a bishop I went back into some of those studies and I studied for a couple days and just diving into more on the topic and a final answer it came back down to that I give to people as my final answer is that they're imperfect people in the church and some people say things are not right. But the truth is the gospel is restored. And don't let anyone take that part away from you. And though we may not have all the answers --I can't give you everything about "why" -- In due time those answers will come . But I can tell you instead of the "why", I can tell you how you move forward.00:18:21And how we move forward is by focusing on Jesus Christ because we're all, black, white, Jew, gentile, green, whatever color you are, We are all His sons and daughters.00:18:33And he wants us to go back and live with Him.00:18:46KaRyn: That was Donald Kelly. I don't know about you, but it's hard for me to hear those stories of times when we as members of the church didn't quite get it right. And I really appreciate Bishop Kelly's personal revelation that helped him make sense of the things that we don't yet understand or know about our history. I also recognize that there are many brothers and sisters who are still waiting for that personal revelation that will heal their wounds. But I revel in the hope that each of us can be healed through Jesus Christ and those of us who have done the wounding, whether intentionally or not, can seek repentance and forgiveness. And isn't that just like being part of a family?00:19:25There's this part in "The Family:A Proclamation to the World" that says, "Successful families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion,, work and wholesome recreational activities."00:19:41I think as a church family, we've got that recreational activity part down if our Ward's block parties and chili cook- offs are any indication. But what if we could do better at all the other things to help make our family, our ward family, our stake family, our church family more successful? I asked Donald to share his thoughts about what we could all do better to minister to our brothers and sisters of color. And here's what he shared:00:20:05DONALD: Now, this is a very sensitive topic for both black members and white members as a whole and I feel the answer is complex but still yet could be very simple. But, in order for us to understand it simply we must recognize or go through the complex answer that I feel first. .00:20:21It comes down to education and empathy. Hear me out on this for a second. Personally, this is my opinion, personally I feel for years that many members of the Church don't talk about race because they just don't understand enough about race or don't talk enough about blacks and the priesthood because they don't understand enough about blacks and the priesthood or they don't understand where members are coming from with it or just simply don't have an answer. And is ignorant to what they should be saying or how they can help other members go through it. So the easy answer, "let's ignore it. Put our heads in the sand, so to speak, and maybe what will happen... They just won't experiment with anything.00:21:01It is not easy to talk about. We can do what Stephen Covey said, "Seek first to understand then to be understood."00:21:07Because what happens, especially when I served my mission in Detroit, Sometimes you will find that members, they were they were taught years ago by the missionaries. These two guys came through the neighborhood started preaching about scriptures, about the Book of Mormon, about the restoration of the Gospel and it made sense. They felt something. They knew, they had this spirit tell them that this was true. They made the decision to get baptized and then maybe couple years later somebody mentioned this idea about blacks and the priesthood and then they start to question like, "wait, what do you mean about that??"00:21:43Now understanding you're probably saying, "yes they got a testimony so why in the world would somebody start doubting?" It's not necessarily doubting and this is where empathy needs to come in play. It's putting yourself in a person's shoes. Oftentimes these individuals who are maybe newer to the church and first time hearing about race and blacks and the priesthood, they probably... they feel... and this is what I'm just sharing what I've heard is.." I feel like I wasn't told everything upfront before I made a decision."00:22:13This caused them to have some kind of question and start questioning everything. How come the missionaries didn't say something about it? How come my bishop didn't talk to me about it? How come some of these things are not taught to me? And then those questions lead to more questions. And more resentment. And then more confusion and frustration.00:22:31Now when they start having conversation with, say a member of the church about it, Because We don't necessarily understand how to Have that conversation with A black member, We go back to just simple saying, "You need to just have more faith. And stop doubting."00:22:49It's depicted, "Well, This person just seems like they don't believe in the fact that we have The restored gospel or that we have prophets on the earth today because if they believe that, They wouldn't ask these questions." Which by the way, is totally not true. It is because I do believe that there is a restoration because it is because I do believe that there are prophets and apostles On the earth. It is because I do believe in the fact that we have priesthood authority. That's why I am asking -- to get better understanding. Again, having a question isn't bad. Maybe you recognize -- yes someone has questioned or going through this challenging time in their life and they're trying to figure things out. Help them. Don't shun them. Don't say they're not faithful. Read scriptures with them. Study with them. Have them over for come follow me.00:23:36Or maybe you can... There are things that you research and you could talk about with them. And just maybe as a bishop, you have more dialogue. As the elders quorum or Relief Society or Young Man or Young Woman president. Taking time to recognize someone's questions and helping them. And for black members of the Church or any one of the Church that may have doubts or have questions, who have these these things they wrestling with, I share this a lot, but I just say, don't jump out of the boat. Stay. In. The boat. Right now. You are safe. You're protected. You may not understand everything. Stay in the boat. Continue to progress. Serve in your calling. Help the ward. Help the members share the gospel of Jesus Christ ,live the gospel of Jesus Christ.00:24:19And as you continue to do this, I pray and I hope that you will gain the answer and insights and revelation that you need. And perhaps maybe we will all come to a better understanding. As we have more of an open dialogue. So again my answer is quite complex. But it comes back down to the simple part. Of. Us. All. Making sure that we educate ourselves and to have open dialogue. And to have empathy. I think those things will help.  00:24:45KaRyn: Donald is always quick to say that he doesn't speak for every black member of our church family so I was thinking that one of the ways I could put his ideas into practice would be to actually ask my friends of a different race, "What is it like for you to be a part of this church?" and then to really listen to their story --not to try to fix it for them or to offer solutions-- but to simply listen and make space for the hard things they might say. And then we can celebrate together the shared faith that brings us all to the sacrament table every week to feast together as brothers and sisters in the same family of Christ... while vowing to do better at being part of that family.00:25:26Well, whatever you feel inspired to do to make our church family better, I hope you'll write it down this week and find a way to put it into action. Let that divine friction change us so we can be better.00:25:41That's it for this episode of This is the gospel. Thank you to Donald for sharing his story and his faith.00:25:46And if you have a story to share whether it's funny touching or miraculous we'd love to hear it. Call our pitch line at (515) 519-6179 leave us a message with a short synopsis of your story. You can also listen to our bonus episode that tells you all about how to become a storyteller on this is the gospel. We've heard from so many of you that this podcast is making a difference in your day. I f so would you please take the time to leave a review on the Apple podcast app? Or anywhere you listen to your podcasts and be sure to tell your friends. The more people know about us the more we're able to keep telling great stories.00:26:21This episode was produced and edited by me KaRyn Lay and Sarah Blake with story editing by Davey Johnson. It was mixed and mastered by mix at six studios and our executive producer is Erin HALLSTROM.00:26:32You can find past episodes of this podcast and other LDS living podcasts like the ALL IN podcast at LDSLiving.com/podcasts . Have a great week.

Episode Seventy Show Notes CW = Chris WolakEF = Emily FinePurchase Book Cougars Swag on Zazzle! AND at Bookclub Bookstore & More.If you’d like to help financially support the Book Cougars, please consider becoming a Patreon member. You can DONATE HERE. If you would prefer to donate directly to us, please email bookcougars@gmail.com for instructions.Join our Goodreads Group! Please subscribe to our email newsletter here.– 70th Episode Giveaway –The Eating Instinct: Food Culture, Body Image, and Guilt in America – Virginia Sole-SmithDemocracy in Chains: The Deep History of the Radical Right’s Stealth Plan for America – Nancy MacleanThe Flight Attendant – Chris BohjalianReconstructing Amelia – Kimberly McCreight– 10th Readalong –True Grit – Charles Portis Send in questions or comments by March 28, 2019 – we will discuss on April 2nd episode.– Currently Reading –The Street – Ann Petry (CW)The Flatshare – Beth O’Leary (EF) (release date 5/28/19)Think and Grow Rich – Napoleon Hill (CW)– Just Read –Jonah’s Gourd Vine – Zora Neale Hurston (CW)Save Me the Plums: My Gourmet Memoir – Ruth Reichl (EF) (release date 4/2/19)Wild Bill: The True Story of the American Frontier’s First Gunfighter – Tom Clavin (CW)Shadow Daughter: A Memoir of Estrangement – Harriet Brown (EF)Golden Child – Claire Adam (EF)More Than Words – Jill Santopolo (EF)– Biblio Adventures –Chris saw Roxane Gay at Yale University in conversation with Claudine Rankin on 2/5/19To read Roxane’s essay about her weight loss surgery click HEREEmily watched some book to TV/Movie adaptations:The Sisters Brothers based on the book of the same title by Patrick dewittKilling Eve based on the book Codename Villanelle series by Luke JenningsThe Durrells in Corfu based on the book My Family and Other Animals by Gerald DurrellChris is watching The Man in the High Castle based on the book of the same name by Philip K. Dick– Upcoming Jaunts –Chris will head to RJ Julia Booksellers in Madison, CT on 2/25/19 to see Pam Huston discuss her new book Deep CreekChris and Emily will catch up with Min Jin Lee at Yale University on 2/18/19Emily is heading to Infinity Hall in Hartford on 2/23/19 to see a SpeakUp Storytelling event Chris and Emily are heading to the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum in Boston on 2/21/19And one more joint jaunt on 3/5/19 to see a panel including Roxane Gay discussing Writing Trauma at Yale University– Upcoming Reads –An Untamed State – Roxane Gay (CW)Monsoon Mansion: A Memoir – Cinelle Barnes (EF)The Crate: A Story of War, A Murder, And Justice – Deborah Vadas Levison (EF)Can You Ever Forgive Me?: Memoirs of a Literary Forger – Lee Israel (CW)No Traveller Returns – Louis L’Amour, Beau L’Amour (CW)Willa Cather Selected Stories: Flavia and Her Artists – Willa Cather (CW)Willa Cather Short Story Project on WildmooBooks– Author Spotlight –We got the chance to catch up with Virginia Sole-Smith author of The Eating Instinct: Food Culture, Body Image, and Guilt in America To find out what Virginia is up to go to: https://virginiasolesmith.com/Virginia co-hosts a podcast with her friend Amy Palanjian: Comfort Food Podcast– Also Mentioned –Ryan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/my.books.my.shelf/Bridget Jones Diary – Helen FieldingVoxerTheir Eyes Were Watching God – Zora Neale HurstonShawn the Book ManiacTender at the Bone: Growing Up at the Table – Ruth ReichlDodge City: Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, and the Wickedest Town in the American West – Tom ClavinThe Light We Lost – Jill SantopoloCitizen: An American Lyric – Claudine RankinHunger: A Memoir of (My) Body – Roxane GayCowboys Are My Weakness: Stories – Pam HoustonEllen Satter Institute

Episode 039 Hike Italy : The Italian Lakes District   Hike and Kayak the most beautiful lakes in the world*   Located in the Italian alps, the Italian Lakes District has spectacular pristine lakes surrounded by the majestic alps!  No wonder so many celebrities like George Clooney, Madonna and Sir Richard Branson have purchased homes here.   On today’s Active Travel Adventures podcast, we interview Christine Jenkins, who went on Active Adventure’s ‘Dolce Vita’ fully guided ten day adventure travel holiday.  Christine explains that each day, she thought if she had to go home that day, her expectations were exceeded, and still every day got better still!   She hiked stunning trails overlooking the lakes, and kayaked on Lake Como and Lake Orto (the latter being her favorite since it is less crowded).   Of course, in Italy, all the food and ample wine was divine - and plentiful!   Here is the Dolce Vita itinerary: Day 1:  Arrive Milan Malpensa, visit Sacromonte Varallo Day 2: Hike to Rifugio Crespi Day 3 — Hiking the Walser hamlets of Valsesia Day 4 — Hike down to Pella, boat to Orta San Giulio Day 5 — Sea kayak Lake Orta Day 6 — Hike the Mottarone mountain range Day 7 — Hiking Val Grande National Park Day 8 — Journey to Lake Como, hike to Vezio Castle Day 9 — Sea kayaking Lake Como Day 10 — Back to Milan Malpensa   Links mentioned on today’s show: Ep 28   Annapurna Nepal with Stan Ep 35   Mont Blanc hike through Italy, Switzerland and France Active Adventures fully guided 10 day hike and kayak of the Italian Lake district Podcast web page www.ActiveTravelAdventures.com Host of the Active Travel Adventures podcast   Twitter@Kit_Parks Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures Instagram:  parks.kit   Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00   Intro 02:13   How Christine got in to adventure travel 02:30   How switched from regular travel to adventure travel 03:30   Making new friends on adventure travel holidays 03:55   Why chose the Italian Lakes vacation 04:58   What makes Active Adventures different 05:32   How difficult was this adventure 06:11   Adventure travel as team building 06:24   Where were fellow travelers from 06:47   How did she train 07:33   Is elevation an issue 07:59   Landscape 08:47   UNESCO Valsesia   09:48   Favorite memories 10:20   Refugios 11:45   Hike into Alagna 12:06   Alagna 13:06  Breakfasts 13:47   Italy does food right 14:49   Dinners 15:48   Typical daily activities 17:36   Describe the lakes 19:21   Describe the landscape 20:35   Visit to the glacier 20:57   When did Christine go 21:42   Using hiking sticks 22:06  Surprise lake swim 23:16  Christine describes her group 24:32   The trip exceeds all expectations 25:53   Mont Blanc and Annapurna (Nepal) 26:58   Celebrities at Lake Como 28:28  Played hooky 29:38   Using a local guide 30:02   Paragliding 31:57   Naked boaters at dinner 33:30  Christine’s guides 35:15   Fresh foccacia 35:49   Accommodations 37:25   What she wished she’d known 38:19   Traveling solo 39:23   Advice to anyone considering the Italian Lakes 40:20   How Christine chooses where to travel 42:15   ATA and affiliate partners 43:13   How to get the FREE Travel Planners 43:29   A shout out to Pat 43:37   Reach out to Kit   Time Stamped Show Transcript   Christine: 00:00I said to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, you know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day... it just can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say.   Kit: 00:21'Dolce vida' the good life, the sweet life. Today we're going to explore the sweet life in Italy. We're going to the Italian Lakes district, an area of Italy you may not be familiar with. Welcome to the Active Travel Adventures podcast. I'm your host Kit Parks, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're not interested in an ordinary life. You want a bigger life, one filled with excitement, adventure, interesting people and challenges. You want to explore the world and different cultures. You want to stretch yourself. You get your jollies off a conquering a difficult feat, and you love how adventure travel can propel your life forward. At the Active Travel Adventures podcast, website, and community, our number one mission is to provide you with the information and tools that you need to take on these adventures. Each show explores an exciting new destination to see if it's something you're interested in and you'll be learning what to expect from someone like you who's actually done it.   Kit: 01:11If the destination piques your interest, then head over to the website where you can see photos, get more detailed itinerary information, and other important information on the website. Also, you can download the free printer friendly travel planner. The planner has all the important links and recommendations you need to actually plan your adventure, or you can wait for the beginning of the month when I send out a monthly and note, I say 'monthly' newsletter that includes all the new travel planners along with other tips and deals. I'll never sell your email or spam you, I promise.   Kit: 01:41 So today we're going to be going to the stunningly beautiful Italian lakes district. Our guest today explains how she enjoyed the good life in the Lakes District of Italy. So let's get started. If you could start by just introducing yourself and perhaps telling us your age.   Christine: 02:01My name is Christine Jenkins and I am 66 years old.   Kit: 02:05 And how did you first get into adventure travel?   Christine: 02:08I probably started a good 15 years ago. I've always wanted to travel. I've always wanted to see the world. I think I got that from my mom who never had that opportunity, so she always was encouraging. And I also love the outdoors and I just connected my two loves.   Kit: 02:28 How did you make the leap say, okay, I want to do that kind of travel versus the tour bus or go to the cities and all that? And so what, what was the thought process or how did you finally say, okay, this is what I'm going to do? And then what did you do?   Christine: 02:40Well, I actually, I have done the bus tours. I did two with my mom and then one day I, and this was before the Internet was really popular, I knew there was a hiking trip in Nova Scotia, Canada and I decided to sign up for that and flew Halifax in Nova Scotia. And my husband was a little worried about me going by myself, so that was my first test and I loved it ever since. I love the outdoors. I love the sounds when you're by yourself. I love getting off the beaten track. Usually you're with a group of likeminded people. I've met some fabulous people on all my hikes.   Kit: 03:22 That's one thing I, that's a recurring theme in this show is that you meet people... That usually each trip I make one or two lifelong friends from that trip.   Christine: 03:32I still keep in touch with two people. In fact, one couple lives in North Carolina. Actually, no, it was my second trip. It was to Newfoundland and there's a couple, both doctors, and they're in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I still keep in touch with them.   Kit: 03:47 And today we're going to be talking about the Italian lakes. So, of all the different trips that you've taken, what made you say that's where I'm going next?   Christine: 03:55It's actually a kind of a funny story. I knew, you know, I was looking around to see where I wanted to go next. I happen to be on Facebook and one of my Facebook friends kept saying, you know, he liked Active Adventures, so I thought, -- and he's kind of an outdoors guy... he teaches physical education... he's a kind of a historian... So I decided, I'm going to checkout this Active Adventures.   Christine: 04:21So I checked it out and I saw the different hikes, but the one that really drew me was Italian Lakes District, I think partly because of the length of time it was 11 days, which was really nice. We could fly in from Toronto to Milan. So it was a direct flight. It was easy to get to, but I think the kicker was we got to kayak for two days, which broke up the hiking. And I love kayaking and it was perfect. I asked my neighbor, "Do you want to come?" She said, "Sign me up," and away we went.   Kit: 04:50Perfect. Yeah, that's, that is one thing I like about Active is it's usually not just hiking. They usually mix in some cycling or paddling or something like that, so multisport, but predominantly hiking.   Christine: 05:01That's right. Predominantly hiking and if you didn't want to hike in a day, that's fine too. We had a lady who had a a meniscus issue and she had a torn meniscus. She had come in from Iceland. She was a photo journalist and so they accommodated her and so she got to do what she wanted to do during the day. So they were very accommodating, very flexible   Kit: 05:24 And how difficult is this, because you know, there's different degrees of difficulty for some of these adventures. On a scale of one to five, where would you place this particular adventure?   Christine: 05:33I would probably put it, I'd say between three and four. I mean I've certainly done more challenging hikes, but there were a few days it was challenging, like our very first full hiking day, you know, because where I live we don't have mountains to climb, so yeah, it was, I thought it was challenging, but it wasn't beyond... none of us had to say, "I can't do this. I give up." We all did it. We all pulled together and we had a great time.   Kit: 06:02 It's almost like a team building experience as well.   Christine: 06:05It was. It was and a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And trust me, when you got to hike through some of these beautiful alpine valleys, it was worth it!   Kit: 06:16 And that's one thing that we really didn't tell folks exactly where the Italian lakes are... And this is in northern Italy. So you're in the Alps?   Christine: 06:24You are in the Alps. When you land in Milan, you can actually... It doesn't take long for you to leave Milan and you can see the Alps in the background. And a couple of places where we were, Switzerland was across the lake, so that's how far north we were.   Kit: 06:39 Wow. Wow. So what kind of training did you do to prepare for this?   Christine: 06:44I kayak because I live near a lake, so I did a lot of kayaking. I try to walk, I have two dogs. I walk them everyday, so that's seven kilometers. And I did small day hikes in my area. I've always had good cardiovascular health and so I didn't really find it a problem. I just keep active in the winter. I snow shoe and I cross country ski so I always had my heart rate up and I think that's the key. And pacing yourself, you know. Pacing yourself, if you pace yourself too, you don't have to feel like you have to be at the head of the line all the time. If you do, not to say slow, but a, a steady pace, it works out.   Kit: 07:25 Was elevation an issue for you or for any of the other hikers?   Christine: 07:30No, not here. I've had it in Peru, but no. I did not experience it and I don't believe any of my other fellow hikers experienced it, or, they didn't mention it at all.   Kit: 07:42 Okay. So most of the higher mountains are surrounding you, is that right? I'm trying to get a visual. Tell us a little bit about the landscape so we can kind of get a picture what it looks like.   Christine: 07:50Well, at the beginning, like I said, in our first full hike, you know, we went up through the alpine meadows. There was snow up higher in the mountains. You went through these little lush valleys. It's just like a picture postcard you would think of as a for Switzerland, but you were still in Italy. And you come to a little hamlet in the middle of nowhere and the people were lovely.   Christine: 08:14We'd have our lunch at a refugio somewhere. We'd have local meats and cheeses and you're just looking at the mountains and the waterfalls, and all you can hear when you're hiking is a bit of a breeze. The cow bells, because all the cows have bells around their necks and it was... there was no other manmade sound. So it was, it was beautiful, priceless.   Kit: 08:38 Very cool. Now in that first valley you go to as a UNESCO World Heritage site and I'm going to say this wrong, I say everything wrong, Valsesia, something like that.   Christine: 08:48Valsesia. Yes. I believe that's how it's pronounced.   Kit: 08:51 Can you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 08:53It was nice because as far as landscape, it was stunning. I'll probably use that word a lot in my descriptions, but everything was stunning... spectacular. At the main center was Varallo, and it was beside a river. And we hiked up to a UNESCO world heritage site and there's a monastery there. And you can come out over edge and looked down over the town of Valsesia.   Christine: 09:17Yeah, and yeah, it was incredible. Incredible. Some of the oldest religious structures in Italy are located there in. It's on the side of the valley.   Kit: 09:27 I see here in my notes that the Franciscan friars built that in 1491. For those of us here in the States we are like, "Whoa, that's old. Right?"   Christine: 09:36That's the year before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.   Kit: 09:41 Well seeing that sounds like a great way to start your adventure. Any other favorite memories from that day?   Christine: 09:45You know, it's funny, one of the memories I have is looking at the ledge over the town below and we could see this thunderstorm, this huge thunderstorm coming down a valley across the way. So that was really kind of neat to see and you could see it approaching us. And the thunder in the mountains, you know, they bounce: the echoes of the thunder bounces off the mountains. So it's sounds a lot louder than it was probably was.   Kit: 10:08 . You mentioned refugios. For those that may not be familiar with that term, can you explain that please?   Christine: 10:17It's a small hamlet or a refuge, I guess would be the English way. We went to a couple of them for a couple of hikes and one in particular we had to hike up to this place where we were going to have our lunch, and it was uphill and it was a, it was a challenging hike and it was by this really wildly raging river. Anyway, we get to this refugio. It's like a little hamlet there.   Kit: 10:43 Okay. I need some more clarification there. I think of refugio is kind of like a mountain hut.   Christine: 10:48There was, there were several huts, so you could actually, I think stay there, but I don't think they're privately owned and they had this restaurant. And there's no road in and the food was outstanding, like it was just, you know, you couldn't believe like you could have fresh cheeses and meats from the local valley.   Christine: 11:13There was fresh rabbit, there was fresh fish. Nothing was deep fried. Like in North America, we would not hike or walk our way to a restaurant like that. If we did, people would complain, but everything would be deep fried. Everything here is fresh and you could sit out in the patio and look at the mountains and the rivers and it was beautiful. Just beautiful.   Kit: 11:36 And so after your lunch, then what did you do?   Christine: 11:39Well, we had a bonus because we get to go downhill the whole way and we hiked all the way back into Alagna and that's where we stayed for three nights in Alagna. And actually one of our guide's, Andrea, he was from Alagna. So he was able to give us the inside scoop on Alagna.   Kit: 11:58 So tell us a little bit about Alagna.   Christine: 12:00Alagna, it looks like a little Swiss town, but you've got to keep reminding yourself that you're in Italy. There's all little cafes, shops... Where we stayed - at the hotel Monterosa - it was right beside the church and the church rings the bells every hour and a half hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But it was a beautiful little hotel where we stayed. The town was old. Alagnal is sort of off the beaten track for North Americans to go over, especially in the winter. But English wasn't... It wasn't difficult to get by when you were talking to a shopkeeper or in a little cafe, you were understood or you figured it out. But there were all little side streets. There was a beautiful little river going outside of town, which we could hear from our hotel. And yeah, it was a lovely time. We were there for three nights. Fabulous breakfast in the morning. Yeah, it was great.   Kit: 12:57 And so what, what kind of foods do they have for breakfast? And from my notes, it looks like that whole area was populated by German people that moved there in like fifth century AD or something.   Christine: 13:08Yeah, the Valser people. Yes. Well the hotel we stayed at for the three days are actually owned by some, a couple from Sweden and think that's been a couple of generations in their family. But in breakfast we had fresh fruit, Granola, homemade breads, homemade jams, coffee, tea, yogurt. Really good yogurt. You didn't starve. That's all I can tell you. It was probably the best Granola I've ever had in my life.   Kit: 13:37 Probably freshly made and everything. And they do food right!   Christine: 13:40It's all fresh. I can tell you that whole trip I did not have... We did not have one bad meal anywhere. It was hard to come home.   Kit: 13:50 We could sure learn how to do food better from the way they do things we do. We do. And they eat seasonally to. They wouldn't think of having strawberries in the middle of winter. They eat what is locally produced and available then.   Christine: 14:01They do eat seasonal and the other thing they do is they eat as local as possible, so you may get... If we had a prepared lunch, like maybe our guide, we had two guides, Andrea and Jo, and they might prepare, pick up some stuff, at little stores or grocery stores and they put out this fabulous picnic lunch with cheeses that were from that valley. That was the only place you could get it or salamis... That type thing. Breads, fresh fruit and yeah, it was. It was incredible. The wine, of course we had wine at lunch.   Kit: 14:37 Nice. Nice. And what about dinner?   Christine: 14:39Well actually I was going to say that was one of the things that was outstanding for this trip was the food. All our meals were covered and nothing was skimped on. We ate the best you could possibly have. We had wine with lunch. Usually we had wine with dinner, but what was interesting is after we'd finished our hike for the day or our kayak, we go back to our rooms, change, meet for dinner. We'd always have an aperitivo, which is like... it was a tray brought out and the had meats and cheeses and crackers and add wine. Then I'd think, "Oh, that's our dinner." No, it's not dinner, and then we'd still go to a restaurant. And so I'm really glad that we were hiking because I'm sure I'dve come home about 10 pounds more than I normally am.   Kit: 15:27And you're in Italy so you know everything's going to be good.   Christine: 15:31Oh yeah. Everything was beyond my expectations. Everything was fresh, nothing was processed. It was awesome.   Kit: 15:39 Very cool. So now you're using this as your base camp. So what kinds of things did you do each day?   Christine: 15:44If we didn't do hiking, we did the kayaking on the lakes: Lake Orta and Lake Como. We didn't kayak on Maggiore. There was one day we decided as a group -- and we had a small group that was just five hikers-- so that was kind of nice, and we decided one day we didn't want to hike and were in Stresa, which is on Lake Maggiore. So we went and walked into town. Some went to the islands and we did a little bit of shopping. So we just, like I say, the guidess were very flexible, and like I said, we decided we didn't want to hike that day.   Christine: 16:19On the days we went kayaking, we'd be out by the water's edge at nine in the morning and then there was a gentleman by the name of Juliana who came up from Genoa, Italy. He brought the kayaks first time, most all the people had kayaked before, so that was good. But he gave us safety instructions. We got fitted with life jackets and we were usually by 9:30, we were out on the lakes. We stop about maybe 10, 30, 11 at a little village and stop for an espresso and then we get back in our kayak, kayak a bit more and then stop it another village and maybe have lunch or stop at a beach. And our guides would put lunch out. In between that we go swimming in the lakes. And then in the afternoon we might stop about 2:30 or 3:00 in another little village and have gelato. It was very civilized. It was, yeah. It was very civilized.   Christine: 17:19And swimming: The lakes were clear and it was... It was hard to believe you weren't at the ocean. The colors of the lakes were beautiful.   Kit: 17:28 So tell us about the lakes itself. What is it? The fact that the lakes are surrounded by mountains or the lakes are particularly pretty in and of themselves? I'm trying to get a feel for what it looks like.   Christine: 17:39Well, the lakes are, they are like jewels. And there was this one day we did hike to the top of one of the mountains , and we could see Orta and Maggiore on both sides. So we had a really good view. Orta is the smallest, then Maggiore, then Como. The lakes were like a blue color, like a aqua blue color. Very clear. Especially in Como. The sides had these old Italian homes that have probably been in families for generations.   Christine: 18:10You know, there's the Piazza's nearby, and I think George and Amal Clooney live on Como, (but we didn't see them). But very steep sides to a lot of the lakes, but there are some beaches. Two of the lakes are Lake Como and Lake Orta are what they call 'crypto depression' and that's the one word I took away... my takeaway from that trip. Crypto depression means the bottom of the lake is actually below sea level and there are a few other ones in the world. Actually the Finger Lakes up in New York state. And actuallyOrta is not a crypto depression. Maggiore and Como are crypto depression, so they're below sea level and the lakes are usually long and narrow and their shores are very steep.   Christine: 19:06I think it was in Maggiore that they believe Mussolini hid his gold and it might be lying at the bottom of the lake. He had a hideout on Maggiore, on one of the islands on Maggiore. So that's the legend. That's a local legend   Kit: 19:12 OK, so when you're doing the hiking, are you in pastures, forests, or what are you hiking through?   Christine: 19:17We're doing it all. There were pastures, forests... There was one day we went through a whole, for about an hour and a half, all it was was chestnut trees. And it was quite a challenging hike. It was steep and it was very hot, but it was so, it was so pretty and so quiet. And we came out to pasture area, and then we had to go under some fences. So yes we had a real variety of landscapes for. hiking.   Christine: 19:57There was another day when we went up in a gondola and then we went up on a series of three gondolas, too. We actually got up to where the glaciers were, and that was an interesting day. It was cold and there was a lot of ice hikers, they had the crampons on their boots and they were doing some ice hiking. But we had to take three sets of gondolas to go higher and higher and higher. And if you have a fear of heights, you may not want to take it. I found that kind of a challenge, but you know, it was very barren landscape, which is a rock and ice and we'd be going along and you'd think that the gondola was going to hit the side of a rock face and then suddenly it will go up and then you were in your station where you get off and walk to the next one and keep going higher up. That was quite incredible.   Kit: 20:33 Did you get to walk on the glacier or just look at it?   Christine: 20:37Yes. We got to walk on the snow. Yes, we did. That is so cool. It was down below. It was probably in the upper eighties, low nineties up (there). It was a bit of a reprieve.   Kit: 20:49 And so what month did you go?   Christine 20:50 July   Kit: 20:52 July. Okay. So you're in the heat of summer.   Christine: 20:53Oh yes. Yes. But apparently it was very warm there in June. They had a trip in June, so I understand it was warm then, but you know what? It wasn't a really oppressive heat. It wasn't really humid. It wasn't really dry, but it was manageable. If you're dressed appropriately, I would strongly recommend a sun hat, especially to cover the back of your neck and your face, I would. That's the one thing. And the other thing I would suggest to people is to take hiking poles. Some people didn't. I think that they're really is helpful for, steadying yourself and, and pulling yourself up on steep parts or giving you some stability.  And when we're on the way down the mountain.   Kit: 21:33 Well I like poles too, for going downhill because they take a lot of pressure off my knee. Yes. And also I'm clumsy. I cannot tell you how many falls they've stopped by having that extra appendage to me or crossing a river or creek. They give you that little extra stability. I don't think I've ever fallen in a creek. I don't want to jinx myself though.   Christine: 21:50No, I haven't either, but one never knows.   Kit: 21:54 Of course. Now I will. Now that I've put that out in the universe. Any other special memories from that area?   Christine: 22:00Well, one of the days I have that sticks out in my mind was on Lake Orta and we went over to San Giulio Island and it's... There's a monastery there and abbey and you could... It's very easy to walk around this little island and there's several spots where you looked down like the old cobblestone streets.   Christine: 22:20Very narrow. In fact, I don't even think there was vehicles on it. I don't even recall any vehicles anyway that you could go swimming. So our group (Jo left us, she had to do some things), so our group, we went down the small passageway to the lake and four of us didn't have bathing suits on, but they were in our pack sack, so we lost all modesty. Just went into just a little dip in the wall, threw caution to the wind, stripped down, put on our bathing suits, dove in the lake, and we thought, well, if there's cameras out there, there's cameras out there. So be it. But the water felt so beautiful against your hot skin. It was...it was beautiful. It was just the most incredible feeling. You can feel yourself cool down and we were laughing like crazy, yet we felt like kids.   Kit: 23:07 That was fun. In your group, you said there's a small group of five: men, women or a combination?   Christine: 23:12All women. My neighbor came, and then there was a lady from San Diego and a lady from Manhattan, and a lady from Rochester.   Kit: 23:21 And what would you say the age group range was?   Christine: 23:24I would say the age group would have been maybe 52... The lady from San Diego was in her fifties, early fifties and to about in the upper seventies. And these ladies -- all of them are really in great shape -- they did their age group proud. They had nothing to be ashamed of . We had the lady from Rochester who was in her seventies and she was fabulous. She was in fabulous shape.   Kit: 23:55 Wow. Those are my role models. In fact, I interviewed a guy by the name of Stan on the Annapurna episode, which I'll put a link to in the show notes. He's in his seventies and has already planned an adventure for two years out. Unbelievable! Cool. That's how I want to age.   Christine: 24:07Wow. That's good for him. Well, I'm planning to go to Mont Blanc next year. I've already booked my trip.   Kit: 24:16 Alright, so any other, any other thoughts about that area before we go to the Val Grande National Park?   Christine: 24:22All I can say... I'll just reiterate just the whole atmosphere. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about it last night: thinking about what I was going to say each day of that trip, the whole trip and combination each day. I, I remember saying to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, "You know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day, a bonus day. It just... it can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say. This has been no doubt, the best hiking trip I've ever had, and I've been to a lot of places. There was nothing I have to say bad about it. Nothing.   Kit: 25:10Wow. And that sure says a lot.   Christine: 25:12Yes. And I'd actually consider going back again in two years... Do it again.   Kit: 25:17 Yeah. It hadn't really even been on my radar, but then I started doing some research, and I thought, that looks really nice. I think that's now on the radar.   Christine: 25:23Well, it hadn't been on my radar either. I mean I have looked at other places. I've looked at Scotland, I've been to Scotland before. I thought about Iceland and I do know Active Adventures does Iceland now, but I was supposed to go to Mont Blanc with another company two years ago, but I badly broke my arm so that put a caboosh on that. So anyway. But anyways...   Kit: 25:46 In fact, the Mont Blanc episode is probably one of my most popular ones.You'll want to take a look at that? That's episode number 35, and I forgot to mention that Stanley, the guy that I said in the seventies that did Annapurna in Nepal, his was episode number 28. Anytime you want to look at an old episode, just go to ActiveTravelAdventures.comslash the episode number, so it'd be slashed 28 or 35, or if you forget, just go to the Directory Page, and then you can either use the search bar or just scroll down and see what rocks your boat.   Kit: 26:15On the website. You can either directly download and/or listen to the podcasts.Plus, you'll also find more details on the trip itself, including itineraries, tons of photos, often videos, and there's just a lot of information there. If you need either even further details, you can download -for free- the travel planners that have clickable links that can get you directly to the information or places that you need in order to plan your trip. And those come automatically with the monthly -- and note that I say monthly-- newsletter. I do not spam you or sell your name. Or you can download them as you need them from the website. Let's go back to the interview.   Kit: 26:50I know from the pictures that you sent, and from my research that the Italian Lakes area is absolutely gorgeous. But to put that in prospective, residents have included George and Amal Clooney, Richard Branson, Madonna.. These are folks who can buy and live anywhere: where money is no object. Yet, this is where they choose. That demonstrates how beautiful it is there.   Christine: 27:13There are some beautiful mansions and you can tell they've been in families for a long, long time and they're old architecture but so beautifully maintained and what was really neat is the boat pulls into a garage at the side of the cliff. It's like a boat garage, you know, and these beautiful old wooden boats. Oh yeah. Fabulous. Fabulous. Obviously this is a ritzy area, very private, very exclusive, especially at Como and. But you'll also see a lot more North Americans there too. Like eEnglish is extremely common, and British and British accents or North American accent. So on my flight over to Milan, there were people... That's where they were going to Bellagio on Lake Como,   Kit: 28:04 A Huffington Post article once ranked the Italian Lakes district as the most beautiful lakes in the world.   Christine: 28:10Oh, I can understand that! Orto is not as busy a lake. It's the smaller of the lakes. I preferred that lake just because it was less busy.   Kit: 28:21 So let's switch gears and now you're going to the Val Grande National Park. an you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 28:24Yeah, that was the one day... We actually that day we did not do that. That was the day we decided not to hike. That was the hookey day. So a couple of us walked into Stresa, which is a small village, beautiful little boardwalk from where we were staying, all the way into Stresa. And some of these beautiful old hotels along the lake side, you know, something you would see from the 1920's-30's. I'm sure they're wildly expensive and then there's three islands on the lake and you could take the boats to them. And we all met on this one island for lunch.   Kit: 29:02 But it sounds like that was a well worth it Hookey Day.   Christine: 29:04It was well worth the hooky day. So no, and everything was fine. We enjoyed our day so I can't comment on Val Grande National Park except to say apparently there's a lot of hiking trails in there. And they suggest you have a guide or a proper map because there are people who have gotten lost and they have never been found there. So that kind of struck the fear of God into us.   Kit: 29:30 So I think to a lot of times when you're hiking in some of these particularly remote areas that it's good to have a guide with you.   Christine: 29:37I think it is too. I mean you learn so much too. Especially somebody local, right?   Kit: 29:41 Yeah. The flora and fauna as well. You might see an animal. You have no idea what it is or a pretty flower and it's just something you take a picture of where they can tell you, oh, that's a little, little whatever it is.   Christine: 29:52Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Kit: 29:54 When people ask you, "Oh, how was your trip?" What's the story that comes to mind?   Christine: 29:57Well, I did something on the trip that was accommodated for me and for the lady from San Diego. We were able to do it. It's not so much funny, but it was fun. We were able to do it, I think, because we had a small group and we went paragliding.   Kit: 30:17That sounds fun.   Christine: 30:19Yes. So, and that was in Alagna. So two of us went paraglidingone morning. When we went with a pilot -and we went separately- and we had to take a gondola up to the site is about at 8,800 feet. And we were up for about 20 minutes and then you could come in. And we landed over in Alagna and I remember the pilot saying to me, "Do you want to touch the steeple of the churches as we go by?" I said that I'd pass on that one.   Kit: 30:47Oh brother, I don't know if I'd have the nerve to do that!   Christine: 30:52So that's wasn't in the plans. And and I don't think if they had a big group that they could do that, but they accommodated, us. And we were able to do it because we could do it early in the morning and the weather was right, the window was right, that type of thing.   Christine: 31:07So the other things we did that was a lot of fun is we went down, it's called LP Land and it's on Mottarone Mountain and it's up at the top. You start at about 1,490 meters and it's a go cart, and you go down the mountain in a go kart by yourself (or with somebody else) and it zigzags down and you can reach some pretty high speeds. That was, you know, you get a beautiful view of the lake, although you're trying to not scream as you're going down, so not die and hope hang onto your water bottle or if you know. But um, that was fun.   Kit: 31:47 Any funny story come to mind?   Christine: 31:49Oh, okay. I do have a funny one. Actually. We were on Lake Orto. We were out for evening dinner. One night we were at arestaurant right on the lake. Beautiful meal as usual, and w see this boat going by. And there's three naked men in it, and they're raising their glasses of wine to all the patrons of the restaurant. So everybody's kind of stunned and we thought, well, we'll wait for them to come back. We'll have our cameras ready. But they never came back. But we all had a good laugh over that one. That was. Yeah, that was funny. That was funny.   Kit: 32:21 And Europeans have a different mentality about nudity than North Americans.   Christine: 32:25You know what? And that's the other thing too, is I really like. You're absolutely right. I saw a lot of ladies who would be in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and they were wearing bikinis. And I thought, "Good for you!" In fact, I almost thought about buying one for myself, but Jo our one guide, she said that their attitudes over here are so different. And yeah, I thought: it is what it is, and they were out there in their bikinis.   Kit: 32:54I'm surprised they had tops on, but maybe that's just the south of France.   Christine: 32:58I saw all with tops if they were standing up or sitting up. But their men folk were attentive to them. They were draped in gold jewelry and all that.   Kit: 33:08That's so interesting. Yeah. And France, most of the women didn't have tops and it didn't make a difference what shape your body was in skimpy bathing suits.   Christine: 33:17I know, I know. And we have a lot to learn in North America.   Kit: 33:23 Any other things you want to tell us about your Italian lakes adventure?   Christine: 33:27 I want to tell you that we had two guides and I really want to mention our guides, Andrea, who is from Alagna, Italy and Jo.Jo was originally from Wales but lives in Auckland, New Zealand now. Those guys were outstanding. They were knowledgeable. They were patient, they were flexible. Andrea, he was a really good van driver. He navigated all these little narrow roads. Sometimes we go through these little villages where the road was barely wider than the mirrors of vehicle and yeah, he, you know, we always felt safe with him. Jo was funny. We gave her a nickname. We called her '10 minute Jo' and the reason was, if we'd be hiking a particularly challenging day,she'd go, "Well there's a refugio up ahead." "Well, how far is that, Jo?" "Oh, it's about 10 minutes," and then a while later we'd be thinking. Well, it's been 10 minutes. She'd then say, "Oh, it's another 10 minutes." Everything was 10 minutes with her, so we ended up calling her '10 minute Jo'.   Kit: 34:29That reminds me when I was doing a two week section hike of the Appalachian trail with my girlfriends, Gerry and Jane. And I had the elevation map and so I would always know exactly how many more hills we had to climb, but as we're getting tired at the end of the day... Everybody's pooped., ready to find a camp site and all that. I'd be like, "Come on, you can do it. This is the last hill, I promise! This, the last hill!" And we'd get up over that hill, and of course there'd be another hill. I was like, "Oh no,really, THISis the last hill." So I'm not sure what they called me behind my back, but I doubt there were as kind in calling me "10 minute Kit". Sometimes to make it to the end, you've just got to fib.   Christine: 35:03Yeah, I know.   Kit: 35:07 Anything else about your guides or transit?   Christine: 35:09 Well, one of the other little things I have to tell you about is Giuliano, who was the gentleman... He would drive up from Genoa twice with all the kayaks. And the second time he came up he brought us some foccacia from a local bakery. He left at 5:00 AM in the morning from Genoa to get up to the Lakes ,and he had this fresh foccacia. And it was actually still a bit warm when we had it at our break. That was memorable, and it was so good.   Kit: 35:36Oh, how sweet and thoughtful.   Christine: 35:39Yeah. Very thoughtful.   Kit: 35:42 And I forgot to ask you accommodations. Are you in guest houses or are your camping? I know you said you were at one place for three days. Tell us a little bit about where you stayed.   Christine: 35:49We stayed in hotels. The first three nights and we were in Alagna. It was a beautiful old hotel run by a couple from Sweden and I love the wooden shutters because they could open up, you know. And clean, clean rooms. In Stresa, all the rooms were clean and had air conditioning. Yeah, there was nothing too. ..There was absolutely no complaints about the accommodation. It was close to everything. If we wanted to walk somewhere, the one place we stayed at, and I can't think of the name of the town, but they would mostly have balconies or a little doors that open up, although we didn't because it was quite warm. Yeah, it was. The combination was excellent. Excellent.   Kit: 36:30 I'm surprised you had air conditioning. That's great.   Christine: 36:32I know, I know. The one thing, over in Europe, if anybody's ever traveled there, the elevators are very small, so if you know, maybe two people get on with one suitcase each. No more than that. So that's the one adjustment. The other adjustment is a lot of times in Europe they don't use face cloths, so you might, if you, if you are big on using a face cloth, you might want to bring your own face cloth, that type of thing. But other than that it's um, you don't want for anything. I mean, if you need a toothpaste, it's easy to get. If you need wine, it's easy to get. So it's not like you're in a third world country. But little tips like that.   Kit: 37:16 Is there anything you wish you'd known beforehand that you could share with us?   Christine: 37:23No. The only thing I know in the guide -our gear guide- they suggested bringing is a hat and gloves and long underwear. We definitely did not need to pack that. It was too hot. So that took up room and maybe they have a standard gear list they give to everybody, but if I was going in June or July to the Italian Lakes District, definitely don't worry about that. You wouldn't have to worry about that.   Christine: 37:51But I would strongly. I've mentioned earlier, I would strongly suggest poles.   Kit: 37:55Yep. That's a given for me.   Christine: 37:56I know some people don't like them, but I. Yeah, that's a given for me too as well.   Kit: 38:00Yeah. I don't hike without them anymore. I don't care where I'm going and also keeps my rhythm.   Christine: 38:04Oh, it does! Yeah, it does. And it really does. And it gives you a bit of an upper body upper body workout to.   Kit: 38:11 One final thing. You say you travel solo. Usually you will pair up with a group or something like that. I just finished an episode, in fact, I just finished editing it this morning on solo travel. Do you have any thoughts on solo travel?   Christine: 38:23It's how I usually travel. I happened to ask my neighbor. We have traveled once before together and she's a great traveler. We had gone to Point Reyes national seashore in California. We went for a week with a group.   Christine: 38:37I prefer... I like solo traveling because I can, in the evening if I want to go to bed earlier, if I want to read till 1:00 in the morning, I'm not disturbing anybody. You meet some great people traveling solo. I used to be really nervous about traveling solo. Not anymore. There's a lot of women out there that travel solo now. A lot more than one would think. And, and if you find there's other solo travelers, you just kind of end up connecting and looking out for each other. And that's the other thing too, as a group, you spend that much time together. You do become a big family and you do look out for one another.   Kit: 39:16 Two final questions for you. Number one: Somebody says to you, "I'm thinking about going hiking in the Italian lakes." What do you tell them?   Christine: 39:25I say, I'll give you the name of Active Adventures. You will have the best time ever. I promise. I promise you. In fact, I'll go with you.   Kit: 39:34 My last question for you. Where's next?   Christine: 39:38Next year in Switzerland, Italy where you fly into Geneva. So I'm going to do that with Active Adventures. That's my next one. And then in 20,20 I always say I want to go back to the Italian Lakes, but there's so many places to go in this world. I've been to New Zealand but I've never hiked in New Zealand. So I mean there's always that option. There's so many places, so little time, you know, and you want to do those things when you're healthy.   Kit: 40:07And I mean this is not an ad for Active Adventures, but we're both fans. Do you now, when you're picking out which trips are you looking at their website and say where do I go next from there? Or how do you pick your next trip?   Christine: 40:20Well, like I said I had wanted to go to Mont Blanc two years ago and was I had already booked it and I was actually going with my neighbor, the one who went on this one, but I had broken my arm. She went on ahead so it was always in the back of my mind and I was going to go with another company, but I saw through Active Adventures they did Mont Blamc but they also do a kayaking day, which I thought I liked that it kind of changes things up a bit, so that's why I'm going with Active. I've put my deposit down and I'm ready to roll next June.   Kit: 40:51Cool. And so is that how you choose your trips?Is by looking to see where they go now that now that you're a fan or do you follow what I'm saying? How do you choose your next trip? Are you looking at their website to see where they go and choosing from there or do you pull from different areas are or how do you pick your next destination?   Christine: 41:09Oh, so if I was going post 2019, I would see if they have any changes in what places they want or new additions. If there was a particular place I want to go, let's say I wanted to go to Croatia or I wanted to hike in Portugal. I may look online and see about other hiking companies or if it's doable, so I kind of explore. I kind of explore a bit, but to see what others have to say. And like you say, the only reason I found out about Active Adventures was through a friend on Facebook who his Active Adventures kept coming up. So I said, you know, yJo Blow likes Active Adventures. I thought I'm going to have to look into this because I know this guy and he wouldn't just say that. So that's how I got onto it.   Kit: 41:56Well thanks Christine for your time. It's been great and we sure loved learning about the Italian Lakes with you. We'll have to have you back on when you do your next adventure.   Christine: 42:03Alright, for sure.   Kit: 42:05 I love how adventure travel doesn't always mean that you're getting in the mud and all that kind of stuff. Sometimes you can even go to luxurious locations like the Italian Lakes District and live the good life.   Kit: 42:15Regular listeners will know that I don't accept any advertising at all for this program so that I can keep it commercial free. However, I do have affiliate partnershipswith companies that I have selected that I truly believe in, that I recommend to you and with these affiliates at absolutely zero cost to you. Sometimes I'll either get a discount or I might make a commission or sometimes I'll get some bonus travel and such like that. And I want to mention that Active Adventures, even though their name sounds very similar to Active Travel Adventures, we are two totally separate companies, but Active Adventures is one that I highly recommend because my friends and I are true believers that It's just a great company.   Kit: 42:51The people just really spend their time trying to give you a trip of a lifetime, so if like Christine, you want to explore the Italian Lakes District with a guided tour company, I would recommend Active and if you do so, please be sure to let them know that I sent you either by using any of my links or just by letting them know when you book. Using any of my links is a great FREE way for you to show your support of this program.   Kit: 43:13 To get the FREE Travel Planners, be sure to sign up for the newsletter. You can do so by going to the ActiveTreavelAdventures.com website and then clicking on the newsletter tab, or you can just write me a Kit [@t] active travel adventures.com and ask me to put you on. I'll be happy to.   Kit: 43:29 A special shout out to Pat.Pat did just that, and then it wasn't long before we were on the phone chatting. And before you knew it, we're going to be roommates on a great trip to Egypt this fall. I can't wait!   Kit: 43:37 Reach out to me.I'd love to hear from you and I'd like to make this a two way conversation. Until next time, I'll be back in two weeks with another great adventure. This time we're going to go a little bit further north. We're heading up to Norway, which I can't wait to share that with you. Until then. This is Kit Parks, Adventure On.   *According to the Huffington Post      

Mark 9:14–29     14When they came to the disciples, they saw a great crowd around them, and scribes arguing with them. 15And immediately all the crowd, when they saw him, were greatly  amazed and ran up to [Jesus] and greeted him. 16And he asked them, “What are you arguing about with them?” 17And someone from the crowd answered him, “Teacher, I brought my son to you, for he has a spirit that makes him mute. 18And whenever it seizes him, it throws him down, and he foams and grinds his teeth and becomes rigid. So I asked your disciples to cast it out, and they were not able.” 19And he answered them, “O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.” 20And they brought the boy to him. And when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. 21And Jesus asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. 22And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23And Jesus said to him, “If you can! All things are possible for one who believes.” 24Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” 25And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.” 26And after crying out and convulsing him terribly, it came out, and the boy was like a corpse, so that most of them said, “He is dead.” 27But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose. 28And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” 29And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”

17And the Lord said to Moses, “I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name.” 18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.” 19And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim […]

The Names and Titles of Jesus –  The Son of Man Episode 100 This series of the names and titles of Jesus will give us a more in-depth understanding of Jesus Christ our Lord. This is ninth in the series. The following is an outline. What name or title did Jesus purposely call himself more than any other? The Son of Man- Jesus chose that title to refer to himself 50 times, not counting the times it is repeated in the gospel Son of Man = ben Adam = son of a Human Son of God = Divine The Son of Man= human----Jesus was the 2nd Adam-----God called Ezekiel “son of man” 90 times 1) no article 2) Ezekiel was a typology of Jesus-80 parallels Johns Rev Who is the Antichrist? Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist! 2 John 1:7 The Son of Man title is so much more than Christ was human Dan 2 40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. Dan 7 12As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. 13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. 27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. In the days of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire The Son of Man will come who is the Messiah. 2. The Son of Man will establish a kingdom that will destroy all other kingdoms and be an everlasting kingdom 3. The Son of Man kingdom will come into existence when he ascends into heaven/comes to the ancient of days = God and sits on his throne 4. We learn from other prophecies that when he comes he will do away with sacrificial system/which means the destruction of the Temple and create a new covenant 5. The Son of Man will become the judge of all the earth/all other kingdoms and their inhabitants. 6. The Son of Man kingdom will not be destroyed nor will The Son of Man Be destroyed Phase 1 Jesus comes to earth calling himself The Son of Man and God bearing witness with miracles. – 50 times without counting duplication. Jesus comes proclaiming the kingdom is at hand. Jesus explains the nature of the inhabitants of the kingdom and the nature of the kingdom itself parable after parable – Many of these explanations are totally contrary to what they believed Daniel taught about the Son of Man and the coming kingdom. Phase 2 Jesus begins to lay the bombshells that will destroy most of what the Jews believed about The Son of Man. The Son of Man is not just the Messiah, He is God. Luke 5 The Son of Man is Devine 17And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. 18And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him before him. 19And when they could not find by what way they might bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop, and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before Jesus. 20And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. 21And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? 22But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts? 23Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. 25And immediately he rose up before them, and took up that whereon he lay, and departed to his own house, glorifying God. Luke 12 The Son of Man is Devine 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. 14Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him John 9 Son of Man is the Son of God and divine 34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. 35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. Son of Man is the son of God and divine He receives worship from human beings. He's worshiped as a baby Matthew eight is worshiped by the leper Matthew nine he's worshiped by the woman Matthew 15 he's worshiped Matthew 28 is worship by the disciples Revelation 5 is worshiped in heaven by the heavenly host He's worshiped in John 9:35 Phase 2 Jesus begins to lay the bombshells that will destroy most of what they believed about The Son of Man. The Son of Man is not just the Messiah, He is God. 2. The Son of Man who is the Messiah and God in the flesh is going to die. Matthew 16 13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. Luke 18:31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. Luke 9:44Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. Luke 18:31Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. John 12 King James Version (KJV) 23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33This he said, signifying what death he should die. 34The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth forever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? Phase 2 Jesus begins to lay the bombshells that will destroy most of what they believed about The Son of Man . The Son of Man is not just the Messiah, He is God. The son of man who is the Messiah and God in the flesh is going to die. Phase 3 His ascension and glorification and receiving a kingdom because of his death, burial and resurrection The Son of Man at His ascension is glorified and received the  kingdom Son of Man Daniel 7 13“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. The ascension of The Son of Man John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God Phase 2 Jesus begins to lay the bombshells that will destroy most of what they believed about The Son of Man . The Son of Man is not just the Messiah, He is God. The son of man who is the Messiah and God in the flesh is going to die. Phase 3 The Son of Man at His ascension and glorification and receiving a kingdom because of his death, burial and resurrection The Son of Man at His ascension is glorified and received the  kingdom Phase 4 The Son of Man is now the Judge of all humanity John 5 :27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man Matthew 26 57Those who had arrested Jesus took him to Caiaphas the high priest, where the teachers of the law and the elders had assembled. 58But Peter followed him at a distance, right up to the courtyard of the high priest. He entered and sat down with the guards to see the outcome. 59The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward.  Finally, two came forward 61and declared, “This fellow said, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.’” 62Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” 64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”[e] 65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.66What do you think?” “He is worthy of death,” they answered. • 67Then they spit in his face and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him 68and said, “Prophecy to us, Messiah. Who hit you?” SO WHAT! Hebrews 4 14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[f] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. 16Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Subscribe to the podcast: {Apple Podcasts}{Stitcher}{Google Play}{IHeartRadio}{YouTube}{Spotify}{CastBox}

Luke 24:13-35: "That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, 14and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17And he said to them, "What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?" And they stood still, looking sad. 18Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, "Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?" 19And he said to them, "What things?" And they said to him, "Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see." 25And he said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. 28So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther, 29but they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent." So he went in to stay with them. 30When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. 31And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight. 32They said to each other, "Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?" 33And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34saying, "The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!" 35Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread."

Share your response to this sermon in our Facebook group.Find us online at www.adventnyc.orgJoin us for worship any Sunday at 9am & 11am in English, and 12:30pm in Spanish.Readings for this SundayActs 1:15-17, 21-2615In those days Peter stood up among the believers (together the crowd numbered about one hundred twenty persons) and said, 16“Friends, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit through David foretold concerning Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus—17for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” 21So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us to his resurrection.” 23So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias. 24Then they prayed and said, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen 25to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.Psalm 11Happy are they who have not walked in the counsel | of the wicked, nor lingered in the way of sinners, nor sat in the seats | of the scornful! 2Their delight is in the law | of the Lord, and they meditate on God’s teaching | day and night. R 3They are like trees planted by streams of water, bearing fruit in due season, with leaves that | do not wither; everything they | do shall prosper. 4It is not so | with the wicked; they are like chaff which the wind | blows away. 5Therefore the wicked shall not stand upright when | judgment comes, nor the sinner in the council | of the righteous. 6For the Lord knows the way | of the righteous, but the way of the wicked shall | be destroyed. R1 John 5:9-139If we receive human testimony, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has testified to his Son. 10Those who believe in the Son of God have the testimony in their hearts. Those who do not believe in God have made him a liar by not believing in the testimony that God has given concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.John 17:6-19[Jesus prayed:] 6“I have made your name known to those whom you gave me from the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me is from you; 8for the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9I am asking on their behalf; I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you gave me, because they are yours. 10All mine are yours, and yours are mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves. 14I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 15I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one. 16They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 17Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth.”

Luke 22:1-20: "1Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover. 2And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people. 3Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. 4He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them. 5And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6So he consented and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd. 7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it." 9They said to him, "Where will you have us prepare it?" 10He said to them, "Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters 11and tell the master of the house, 'The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12And he will show you a large upper room furnished; prepare it there." 13And they went and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover. 14And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." 17And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." 19And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 20And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

Luke 19:11-27: "As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. 12He said therefore, "A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. 13Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten minas, and said to them, 'Engage in business until I come.' 14But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.' 15When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business. 16The first came before him, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.' 17And he said to him, 'Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.' 18And the second came, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made five minas.' 19And he said to him, 'And you are to be over five cities.' 20Then another came, saying, 'Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief; 21for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.' 22He said to him, 'I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?' 24And he said to those who stood by, 'Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.' 25And they said to him, 'Lord, he has ten minas!' 26'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 27But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'""

Luke 17:11-19: "On the way to Jerusalem he was passing along between Samaria and Galilee. 12And as he entered a village, he was met by ten lepers, who stood at a distance 13and lifted up their voices, saying, "Jesus, Master, have mercy on us." 14When he saw them he said to them, "Go and show yourselves to the priests." And as they went they were cleansed. 15Then one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, praising God with a loud voice; 16and he fell on his face at Jesus' feet, giving him thanks. Now he was a Samaritan. 17Then Jesus answered, "Were not ten cleansed? Where are the nine? 18Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" 19And he said to him, "Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well.""

Matthew 4:12-23 12Now when Jesus heard that John had been arrested, he withdrew to Galilee. 13He left Nazareth and made his home in Capernaum by the sea, in the territory of Zebulun and Naphtali, 14so that what had been spoken through the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: 15“Land of Zebulun, land of Naphtali, on the road by the sea, across the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles— 16the people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and for those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned.”17From that time Jesus began to proclaim, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” 18As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea—for they were fishermen. 19And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fish for people.” 20Immediately they left their nets and followed him. 21As he went from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John, in the boat with their father Zebedee, mending their nets, and he called them. 22Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him. 23Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and curing every disease and every sickness among the people. First, to understand this text we must unlearn what we think we know about the word repent. When you hear the word repent, what comes to mind? “Repent you sinner!” I am a bad person, who must first repent so that I can be saved! But what if the word, repent, meant to turn, to change directions? What if it had nothing to do with sin or being a bad person? What if Jesus’s use of the word meant to change the current direction that your life has taken you to a new direction, one that is far more fulfilling? What if the use of the word repent meant that you turned from a life that left you aching for something more to one of which Iranaeus spoke about when he said, “The glory of god is a human truly alive.” In English the word repent means to turn from sin, to feel regret or to change one’s mind. But in the original Greek there is no sense of sin. From the original Greek, the word means to change one’s mind, to go a new direction. If we take this definition, “to go a new direction,” and apply it to this story in Matthew, the story starts to take on a very different meaning. The fishermen in the boats to whom Jesus calls out “Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand,” were actually hearing, “Come and join me in going a new direction in your life, for God is with you!” Now that is an invitation that many of us would love to hear or need to hear. Secondly, to understand this text we need to know something about what it means to be a fisherman in Jesus’ day. For years, I struggled with this text as have countless other preachers and biblical teachers. We struggle with it because of its brevity. Many have come to the conclusion that there are parts of the story missing. Who would answer this call to follow Jesus without more information? Many have made up what that missing part of the story must have been. I have wondered too, until I read an article by Brian Stoffregen where he was quoting from the book Matthew and the Margins by Warren Carter. In this book Carter informs us what the world thought of fisherman in Jesus’ day. Carter writes that, “While fishermen have some economic resources, their social ranking is very low. In Cicero's ranking of occupations (De Off 1.150-51), owners of cultivated land appear first and fishermen last.” (Cicero was writing about a century before Jesus lived) “Athenaeus indicates that fishermen and fishmongers are on a par with money lenders and are socially despised as greedy thieves (Deipnosophistai, 6.224b-28c).: (Athenaeus lived about 2 centuries or so after Jesus). So for at least 3-4 centuries around the time of Jesus, fishermen were a despised lot, something on par with tax collectors. If this is true, then this story is not so much about the response to Jesus’ call as it was about who he was calling. He was calling fisherman to follow him. He might as well have been calling tax collectors. By calling fisherman, Jesus was saying to those whom society had said were not worthy that he saw something in them that made them special. Special enough for Jesus to want to say to them, “Follow me.” By calling these fishermen, he is putting into action his teaching, “the first shall be last and the last shall be first.” This is a radical statement. If what Cicero and Athenaeus says is true about the role fishermen play in their society’s, it is worthy to note that from the very beginning of Jesus’s ministry that Jesus is upsetting the norm of going to the rich and powerful to ask them to lead his movement. Instead he turns to those who are most despised in their day. This call to the fisherman would have been a huge challenge to the elites in Jesus’ day. Jesus is boldly saying to the rich and powerful, that those whom you have declared as unworthy, that in them God sees something of value, God sees people with gifts. Instead of seeing what others saw, Jesus had eyes to see what had been hidden underneath. He saw not only that they were children of God, but that they had gifts that would serve the kingdom well. It makes me wonder if I was one of those fishermen what I might be thinking. “Is he talking to me?” “What does he see in me that I do not see? This is just the first of countless stories to come where Jesus looked deeper into the person in front of him and invited that person to begin to see themselves with new eyes, with loving and grace filled eyes. Recently Luke and I were talking about what it takes to serve a church as an ordained pastor. In that conversation, he shared a bit of information that he had learned about those who are serving as senior pastors of churches. He had learned that a recent study of those serving as senior pastors had observed that 80% of senior pastors did not feel qualified to serve in that role. That number may surprise you but it does not surprise me. It is true for leaders in many professions. Ann Friedman in the article, “Not Qualified for Your Job? Wait, You Probably Are,” shared this observation, “Two-thirds of incoming students at the notoriously selective Harvard Business School raise their hands when they’re asked: “How many of you in here feel that you are the one mistake that the admissions committee made?”” She goes on to write, “that the name for that fraudulent feeling is ‘impostor syndrome.’ It’s a phenomenon in which people — usually high-achieving professionals — don’t consider themselves qualified for their position and convince themselves that they’ve cheated their way into it. It doesn’t matter how much work they’ve put in or how much experience they’ve acquired.” From my experience, I have learned that this feeling of inadequacy is far more prevalent than most people realize. My experience indicates that what is true of the students at the Harvard Business School is a common thought for many of us. In many of us, there is a tape running in our heads that repeated plays the line that goes something like, “if those around me truly knew of inadequacies… I will let you finish the line since it play slightly different for each one of us. For those among us today who have this tape playing in your heads take heed. Today’s text offers you good news. God, through Jesus is calling you to a life of fulfillment. All you need to do is to turn and live into that good news that you are gifted, that you are worthy. One of my most favorite stories to tell is the story of Isaac, a poor Rabbi from the city of Cracow. “Once upon a time there was a Polish rabbi from Cracow named Isaac. He had a dream. In the dream he was told to travel to Prague. Under the great bridge leading to the royal castle he would find a hidden treasure. The dream was repeated three times, and he decided to go. He found the bridge, but it was guarded by soldiers, so he did not dig. As he loitered in the vicinity, one of the soldiers asked him what he had lost. The rabbi told his dream and the soldier burst into laughter. “Really, poor man,” the soldier said, “have you worn out your shoes coming all this way simply because of a dream?”… “I, too, once had a dream,” said the soldier. “It spoke to me of Cracow, ordered me to go there and look for a treasure in the house of a rabbi named Isaac. The treasure was to be found in a dusty corner behind the stove.”… “But,” said the soldier, “being a reasonable man and not trusting in dreams, I decided not to go.” The rabbi thanked the soldier, returned to Cracow, dug behind his stove, found the treasure, and put an end to his poverty.” In this story of the rabbi and in the story of the calling of the fishermen, we learn that there is a treasure in each one of us that God has eyes to see even when we cannot. Today listen for Jesus’ voice. To you who have been made to feel less than worthy, hear Jesus’ call to turn from that way and to become the person that God has intended you to be. You are worthy. The treasure which you seek is in you. Turn, see it and grasp it.

Matthew 4:18-22 How are YOU (WE) utilizing the skills/gifts that God has blessed us with? 18 While walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon (who is called Peter) and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen. 19And he said to them, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." 20Immediately they left their nets and followed him. 21And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them. 22Immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

http://versebyversebibleteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/Matthew_24_16_20.mp3 [audio: http://versebyversebibleteaching.com/wp-content/uploads/Matthew_24_16_20.mp3] 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and […]

Isaiah 57 14-19And it will be said:“Build up, build up, prepare the road!  Remove the obstacles out of the way of my people.”  For this is what the high and lofty One says— he who lives forever, whose name is holy: “I live in a high and holy place, but also with him who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite.  I will not accuse forever, nor will I always be angry, for then the spirit of man would grow faint before me— the breath of man that I have created.  I was enraged by his sinful greed; I punished him, and hid my face in anger, yet he kept on in his willful ways.  I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;  I will guide him and restore comfort to him, creating praise on the lips of the mourners in Israel.  Peace, peace, to those far and near,” says the Lord. “And I will heal them.”

click here Visit the Recover In Christ web site. Passage John 1 : John 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. 19And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Visit the Recover In Christ web site. leviticus 4 1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: 3If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. 4And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD. 5And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation: 6And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary. 7And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8And he shall take off from it all the fat of the bullock for the sin offering; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 9And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away, 10As it was taken off from the bullock of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall burn them upon the altar of the burnt offering. 11And the skin of the bullock, and all his flesh, with his head, and with his legs, and his inwards, and his dung, 12Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt. 13And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty; 14When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation. 15And the elders of the congregation shall lay their hands upon the head of the bullock before the LORD: and the bullock shall be killed before the LORD. 16And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock's blood to the tabernacle of the congregation: 17And the priest shall dip his finger in some of the blood, and sprinkle it seven times before the LORD, even before the vail. 18And he shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar which is before the LORD, that is in the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall pour out all the blood at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 19And he shall take all his fat from him, and burn it upon the altar. 20And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them. 21And he shall carry forth the bullock without the camp, and burn him as he burned the first bullock: it is a sin offering for the congregation. 22When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty; 23Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish: 24And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it is a sin offering. 25And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out his blood at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering. 26And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him. 27And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; 28Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned