Podcasts about people ops

In this episode, Amir sits down with Aaron Painter, CEO of Nametag, to explore how deepfakes and generative AI are reshaping identity security in the workplace. They discuss real-world attacks, such as the MGM breach, and how enterprises are responding with new technologies—from cryptographic identity verification to re-verification protocols. Aaron shares what companies are doing right, where they're vulnerable, and the role of identity in the future of enterprise security.

In this episode of The E1B2 Collective Podcast, AJ Vaughan unpacks a provocative insight sparked by a recent listen to The Ready Podcast: why do we expect the same average teams—who've struggled to innovate for years—to suddenly spark change just by “collaborating more”? He explores the seductive myth of internal DIY transformation, the overlooked power of psychological safety, and the real reason your team might be stuck in the mud.AJ challenges HR leaders and executives to rethink how they budget for capability-building—not just execution. He dives deep into the ROI of bringing in external experts, not to replace internal teams, but to level them up, build muscle, and transfer mindsets that actually stick. This one's for the CHROs, L&D leads, and People Ops innovators tired of spinning in circles with “collaborative mediocrity.”Stop doing more of the same and expecting better. Let's talk about what real change takes.

Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to break down how to hire for a people ops as a product team.She shared the 5 core skillsets needed, the importance of t-shaped talent, and how to use case studies to spot product thinking in HR Candidates.---- Sponsor Links:

Abby Brennan joined us on The Modern People Leader. We discussed the power of ONA as the “shadow org chart,” how it reveals hidden influencers, and why it may be key to building smarter, more connected teams in the age of AI.---- Sponsor Links:

Andrew and Sean talk about hiring tools, positioning MetaMonster, and Andrew's struggles to increase his publishing velocity. Meanwhile, Sean is slammed with inbound after RSA, is putting project management systems in place for Margins, and just got a pool table!  Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/Apply to Miscreants: https://tally.so/r/nrWOlNFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.27SeanWhat's up?00:02.35AndrewNot much, just digging through job applications for this senior product designer role.00:07.89SeanYeah. Yeah.00:09.34Andrewit00:09.45SeanHow's that going? Do you like it?00:10.30AndrewIt really makes me want to build an ATS.00:12.75SeanYeah.00:14.07Andrewi I looked at Home Run again, and00:15.97SeanUh-huh.00:20.47Andrewit's gone up to, like, their base price starts at, I think, $90 a month or something like that. and JJ has essentially built a, an Excel Google sheets, ATS, uh, which is solid.00:34.46AndrewIt's, it's not bad at all.00:34.71SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.00:36.55AndrewI think the email automation stuff she's been trying to do isn't working yet. then I have spent a chunk of today trying to figure out how to run a script inside of Google sheets that'll,00:50.78Andrewintegrate with an AI detection API because so many of these applications are so clearly just copy and pasted from ChatGPT and not actual applications.01:00.49SeanI see. I see.01:02.97AndrewYeah.01:03.27SeanYou can use GPT for sheets.01:03.42AndrewWhich01:06.08SeanAnd then...01:07.03Andrewdo you think how how good is ChatGPT at detecting itself?01:12.38SeanI think if you give it a rubric, it it's good. Because, like...01:15.84AndrewI don't know if I know enough to give it a good rubric.01:18.86Seancan give you my, like... You know, it's not a rubric. It's just like, hey, generate this blog post. Don't use these words. Don't use this phrasing. Don't...01:27.51AndrewYeah, and you could try to kind of reverse that rubric.01:30.27SeanYeah, yeah.01:30.85AndrewYeah.01:31.58SeanGod, that's funny.01:33.39AndrewYeah. And, like, there's there's, like, a small part of me that is, like, well, you know, I don't...01:35.17SeanYeah.01:42.50AndrewI don't have a problem with you using ChatGPT to help you write your application. But if you're clearly just like, if it's 100% copy and pasted from ChatGPT, then I have no way of knowing if it's legit information or not, or if you're just completely bullshitting.01:53.80SeanYeah.01:58.15AndrewLike, I got several answers to the same question that seemed almost identical.01:58.74SeanYeah.02:04.19AndrewAnd I was like, hmm, okay, so this isn't a real life experience you had then probably.02:08.60SeanYeah, I bet. That's so funny. I bet there's like apps now also like apply with AI like one click and then it just generates that stuff.02:16.65AndrewOh, I'm sure there are. yeah Yeah, so I mean, I think part of it is...02:20.17SeanHow would you build an ATS differently? Let's build a bit sauce.02:27.31AndrewLike, I think it's an area where I would try to compete on price because ATS systems tend to be pretty fucking expensive. And so I think if you tried to be a fairly minimal, simple version that was at more of an entry level price, I think that's like step one.02:43.52AndrewNow, the shitty part is to build even a simple ATS. You're basically building a CRM, an email marketing system, and a form builder all in one. and like kind of a website builder too.02:54.26SeanYeah. Yeah.02:56.31AndrewSo it's it's not a simple product.02:59.09SeanHmm.02:59.43AndrewSo I totally understand why they're expensive. But I still think ah ah most of that is sunk cost, not like ongoing cost.03:10.24SeanYeah. Definitely03:10.80AndrewI don't think they're that expensive to operate. Just you know there's a high barrier to entry to build you the base features you need.03:14.24Seannot.03:20.98SeanHmm.03:22.20AndrewSo I think I'd do some of that. i think I would also, think it could be really interesting. Like I've always been interested in salary transparency and stuff like that.03:31.98AndrewSo I think it could be interesting to try to do some like, try to talk people into doing some data sharing around salaries and stuff like that.03:40.80SeanMm-hmm.03:41.87Andrewon both sides of the equation. i think it would be cool to build in, know, some, I remember when we, I know,03:52.68Andrewwhen we were trying to care about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and like learn about it, part of what people said you should do is like serve like conduct anonymous surveys to determine you know try to determine if there's what bias there is in your application process and like you know some people say you should hide names from applications and stuff like that and i yeah that kind of stuff04:25.09SeanYou could do a lessannoyingATS.com. Yeah.04:27.83AndrewYeah, like I think, and that kind of stuff was often hidden behind like really high enterprise prices.04:28.44Seancome04:33.54AndrewAnd so just making that stuff more widely available, offering good rubrics, like good default rubrics for like, here are good application questions. Like here's some templates you can choose from and here's a good rubric to like help you reduce bias in your process and doing some different stuff like that.04:49.85Seanyeah04:51.78Andrewthen just trying to make it balance that with also making it reasonably quick to eliminate people who clearly aren't a good fit and then like narrow your list down because those are the two kind of competing priorities for good hiring managers. is like On the one hand, you have a massive stack of applications to get through normally.05:11.51AndrewAnd on the other hand, you want to be respectful of people and like you you want to get through those in a reasonable amount of time while also giving people their due.05:15.57SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.05:21.64AndrewAnd so trying to walk that balance with thoughtful tools.05:21.73Seanand05:24.68Seanyeah maybe like hard filters and soft filters as you're going through applicants it'd be cool like you i mean if it's cheaper it's better for smb and then the templates make a lot of sense because i mean hiring is hard your first hundred times i'm pretty sure especially because there's differ...

Jessica Zwaan joined us again on The Modern People Leader to unpack how to structure a people ops as a product team. She shared four ways to build an HR squad, how to use a spider diagram for squad design, and why it's smart to pilot just one squad first.---- Sponsor Links:

Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how the company is navigating its “third era” under the return of co-founder Nirav Tolia. We explored “The Founders Mentality”, embracing an owner's mindset, and Nextdoor's AI bootcamp.---- Sponsor Links:

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Talentful and author of Built for People,  joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about “human ops” versus “people ops”, the sprint planning process for her people team, and how nobody gets people ops as a product 100% right (and that's ok).---- Sponsor Links:

Jessica Zwaan returned to The Modern People Leader for a deep dive on how her PeopleOps as a Product philosophy came to life. We talked about the early days of the framework, writing her book, and the launch of MPL Build — a new collaboration between MPL and Jessica to bring the methodology to more teams.---- 

Jacki Lancaster is a former 8th grade math teacher and Higher Education professional turned Talent & People Experience Partner. She holds a Masters of Education with a focus on Administration and Supervision and is passionate about recruiting. Today we discuss the candidate and hiring manager experience, onboarding, the employee experience, company culture, and all things People Ops.   Find Jacki on Linkedin. Free Quiz: What career outside of the classroom is right for you? Explore the course that has helped thousands of teachers successfully transition out of the classroom and into new careers: The Teacher Career Coach Course Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

DOGE, US Fed Gov and the Future of HR & TA in the USA   We have to talk about DOGE.   The US Federal Government is the largest single employer in the United States at 2.5 million employees. The intent of the Trump 2.0 administration is to radically reduce this number - by at least 10% in the first tranche - and maybe to end up with a workforce of about 10% when it is all said and done.   This is unprecedented downsizing of government function, the likes of which we have rarely seen outside of active conflict situations. The role of TA / HR and People Ops in general is multi-faceted. On of the one hand, there are thousands of colleagues in these roles who will be impacted (perhaps disproportionately so?) and so might now find themselves abruptly on the job market. On another hand, as People Ops' pros one of the most important functions is to ensure organisational compliance with employment law - how can one do this when the organisation itself seems intent in ignoring it? Finally, People Ops functions have responsibility and duty of care for other employees, who will no doubt by overwhelming HR departments right now with requests for advice and support on what to do.   Brainfood Live cannot solve any of these problems but it can help shine a light into what is going on, so that we can better understand the implications and in so doing, find a way to best support the people most impacted.   It's going to be an open mic style show folks, so if you are in the US and want to talk part in this conversation, dial in. We're with Steve Rothberg, Founder (CollegeRecruiter), Mike Bruni, Partner (Talent Acquisition Strategies), Kate Bischoff, Founder (K8bisch LLC) & friends     We are on Friday 21st March, 11am PST / 2pm EST   Register by clicking the green button and follow the channel here (recommended)   Ep297 is sponsored by our friends at Greenhouse   Hiring is hard, and getting it right is even harder. It's a core business-building function with high stakes that takes a lot of moving parts to see real success. You need workflows that accommodate how you function given your company size and goals. You need a user experience that hiring managers actually buy into. And you need an application process that locks talent in.   Only Greenhouse gives you all that in one platform.   Learn more

U ovoj epizodi Digitalk podcasta ponovo uplovljavamo u vode ljudskih resursa, ali i People Ops funkcije, pričamo o tome koji su danas najveći izazovi HR profesionalaca i odeljenja u kompanijama, kao i koji su to izazovi sa HR strane kada inostrane kompanije dođu u Srbiju i treba da organizuju lokalne kancelarije. Uz dosta detalja iz HR sveta, otkrivamo i jednu veoma zanimljivu metodologiju koja HR stručnjacima pomaže u rešavanju širokog spektra problema, a u pitanju je Lego Serious Play metodologija. O svemu ovome pričali smo sa Milicom Arsić, konsultantkinjom iz oblasti HR-a i People OPS-a, i sertifikovanom fasilitatorkom metodologije Lego Serious Play. Milica Arsić, HR & People Ops konsultantkinja, Lego Serious Play fasilitatorka https://www.linkedin.com/in/milicakosuticarsic/ Teme u epizodi: - Uvod & predstavljanje - Milicin profesionalni razvojni put - Kako uploviti u HR vode? - Današnja uloga HR-a i People Ops timova - Izazovi vođenja kancelarija u Srbiji - Uloga inovacija u HR-u i razvoju zaposlenih - Šta je Lego Serious Play (LSP) metodologija? - Milicina poruka za kraj Prijavite se na naš YouTube kanal: https://bit.ly/3uWtLES Posetite naš sajt i prijavite se na našu mailing listu - https://www.digitalk.rs Pratite DigiTalk.rs na društvenim mrežama: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Digitalk.rs Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/digitalk.rs/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/digitalkrs Veliku zahvalnost dugujemo kompanijama koje su prepoznale kvalitet onoga što radimo i odlučile da nas podrže i daju nam vetar u leđa: Partneri podkasta: - Raiffeisen banka - https://www.raiffeisenbank.rs/ Digitalne usluge Raiffeisen banke koje preporučujemo za mala i srednja preduzeća: https://bit.ly/40yAeHw - Kompanija NIS - https://www.nis.rs/ - Ananas - https://ananas.rs/ - kompanija Idea - https://online.idea.rs/ Prijatelj podkasta: - PerformLabs - https://performlabs.agency/ Oslobodite pun potencijal svog digitalnog marketinga! Optimizujte svoje kampanje i postignite maksimalne rezultate uz Performlabs. - BiVits ACTIVA Brain Level Up Booster - https://bivits.com/proizvod/brain-level-up/ Kada želiš da živiš i radiš na višem nivou, uzmi BiVits Brain Level Up za više energije i bolju koncentraciju tokom dana! - Izdavačka kuća Finesa - https://www.finesa.edu.rs/ U ovoj epizodi podelićemo dve knjige "Izgradi" izdavačke kuće Finesa onima koji budu najbrži i najkreativniji sa komentarima, a možete nam slobodno pisati i na info@digitalk.rs i direktno nam uputiti komentar, sugestiju ili primedbu. Takođe, svi oni koji na Finesinom websajtu poruče knjige i unesu promo kod digitalk dobiće 10% popusta na već snižene cene izdanja na sajtu: https://www.finesa.edu.rs/

If you dread hearing the words “we need to hire for an open position”, you're not alone! Creating a hiring process that's a positive experience for everyone involved can be tough! That's why I was intrigued when I heard Sophia O'Rourke talking about how she turned her company's convoluted hiring process into one that she deemed “Plug and Play”. Sophia loves to build people initiatives and processes that allow her to create something from the ground up. And that's exactly what she has done in her current role as Director of People & Culture at Newstory. Sophia set out to build a hiring process that was a positive experience for everyone involved - her People Ops team, hiring managers, and the candidates themselves - and joined us to share her journey. Learn from her experience in this episode and then check out the incredible templates she has shared with us!In this episode you'll learn:Where to begin when overhauling your hiring process.How to sort issues into four categories: Automate, Templatize, Delegate, Eliminate.Where in your hiring process you can create templates to do 90% of repetitive tasks. MENTIONED RESOURCES/LINKSWe gathered Sophia's templates into a single document to share with the Want To Work There community, including one for a hiring process framework, creating job descriptions, candidate communications, and more!CONNECT WITH SOPHIA O'ROURKEConnect with her on LinkedInHer employer, New Story Homes, is hiring!MORE FROM WANT TO WORK THERESignup For the Weekly NewsletterTraining for the Modern ManagerFree Tools and TemplatesConnect on LinkedIn or InstagramDID YOU LOVE THE EPISODE?If so, I'd love for you to share it with a friend or colleague who shares your passion for building a better world of work! They can find us at wanttoworkthere.com/podcast or by searching Want To Work There wherever they listen to podcasts.

How do you scale a remote-first company across 40+ countries while maintaining a results-driven, people-focused culture? In this episode, we dive deep with Dajana Berisavljević Đakonović, the Head of People at Toggl. With over eight years of People Ops experience, Dajana shares the lessons from Toggl's journey—from growing a fully distributed team to 130+ people to streamlining operations and prioritizing clarity, accountability, and well-being.

Oh, hey there! No - you're not imagining it. I did disappear from your stream for quite a stretch without any notice or explanation. More on that to come soon, I promise. For now, I'm thrilled to be dropping a new episode filled with ahas from the brilliant Lia Seth. Enjoy and I'll see you back here with another new episode in two short weeks! - Your host, Jill Felska----------Would you be nervous if an employee came to you with a disability accommodation request? Many People Ops professionals and managers would say yes - and it makes sense! Discussions about workplace inclusion are widespread when related to groups like people of color and women, but not as common around how to be inclusive or provide accommodations to those with disabilities. It's also unfamiliar legal territory for most, which makes a lot of folks nervous.The good news is that you don't need to be a compliance expert in order to support someone with a disability. You (mostly) just need empathy. This is just one of many takeaways from this episode's conversation with Lia Seth, HR Operations leader and self-proclaimed accessibility queen. In this episode you'll learn:What accommodations are and aren'tWhat someone with a disability might think through before requesting an accommodationHow managers should and should not respond to a disability request Best practices for managers and People Ops professionals to prepare for these conversationsWhat a disability accommodation actually looks like MENTIONED RESOURCES/LINKSCheck out the Want To Work There guide to creating your own personal “read me” document. Lia recommends learning from these leaders in the accessibility space by following them on LinkedIn: Tim Reitsma, Julie Harris, Greer Procich, and Marion Anderson. CONNECT WITH LIA SETHVisit Lia's websiteConnect with her on LinkedInFollow her on X (Twitter)MORE FROM WANT TO WORK THERESignup For the Weekly NewsletterTraining for the Modern ManagerFree Tools and TemplatesConnect on LinkedIn or InstagramDID YOU LOVE THE EPISODE?If so, I'd love for you to share it with a friend or colleague who shares your passion for building a better world of work! They can find us at wanttoworkthere.com/podcast or by searching Want To Work There wherever they listen to podcasts.

The “Best of 2024” episode features sixteen don't miss moments from HR executives and thought leaders...So, who can you expect to learn from on this episode?Rhonda Morris, CHRO, ChevronJeffrey Pfeffer, Professor Stanford University and Author of 16 books including the “7 Rules of PowerKerrie Peraino, Chief People Officer at VerilyKevin Wilde, Executive Leadership and Talent Development Expert & AuthorKelly Monahan, Managing Director, Research Institute at UpworkDave Ulrich, Bob Eichinger, and Allan ChurchLybra Clemons, a C-Suite executive with experience leading talent, culture, and DEIShaun Mayo, Chief People Officer, Arizona Cardinals Football ClubAmy Kates, Organization Design Expert, Consultant, Educator, and Author of Five BooksKevin Cox, Founder and President of LKC Advisory & Anthony Nyberg, Director, Center for Executive Succession at University of South CarolinaJordana Kammerud, SVP & CHRO, CorningLucien Alziari, EVP and CHRO of Prudential Financial, IncGinger King, CHRO, Kohler Co.Tim Richmond, EVP & Chief Human Resources Officer, AbbVieStephanie Lilak, EVP & Chief People Officer, Mondelez InternationalPrasad Setty, Lecturer, Stanford GSB, Advisor, Former VP at Google, People Ops and WorkspaceEpisode Sponsor:Next-Gen HR Accelerator - Learn more about this best-in-class leadership development program for next-gen HR leaders

Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Have you ever wondered how the often-overlooked realm of recruiting operations (RecOps) could be the key to unlocking ultimate efficiency and success in your recruitment process?   In the rapidly evolving field of recruitment, businesses face immense pressure to optimize their hiring processes and manage their workforce effectively. Common issues such as inefficient recruitment workflows, misaligned departmental goals, and the strain of juggling multiple roles can hinder growth. In this episode, Jeremy Lyons, a leader in the RecOps space, sheds light on how mastering recruiting operations can address these challenges, offering tangible strategies to refine and streamline your recruitment efforts while strengthening your company's overall talent management. Understanding Critical Roles: Jeremy explains the crucial distinction between recruiting operations (RecOps) and people operations (People Ops), illustrating how each plays a unique part in employee management and responding to layoffs. This clarity helps businesses allocate responsibilities more effectively, improving overall organizational structure.Leveraging AI and Data Analytics: Learn how advancements in AI and the strategic use of data analytics can enhance recruitment efficiency. Jeremy delves into how these tools can aid in training, compliance monitoring, and transforming recruitment operations into strategic business partnerships, ensuring that your recruitment processes are data-driven and forward-thinking.Career Advancement and Practical Advice: For recruiters aspiring to transition into RecOps, Jeremy provides actionable advice on focusing on system design, automation, and the importance of data storytelling. His guidance on managing career goals and engaging in open conversations with managers offers a roadmap for professional growth within the recruitment landscape.   Don't miss out on these game-changing insights – listen to this episode of The Elite Recruiter Podcast now and discover how RecOps can revolutionize your recruitment process for unparalleled success! BD and Sales Summit Registration: https://bd-sales-recruiter-summit.heysummit.com/ Join The Elite Recruiter Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1D75ReiFKo/   Want to check out Finish The Year Strong Summit Replays? - https://finish-the-year-strong.heysummit.com/ Signup for future emails from The Elite Recruiter Podcast: https://eliterecruiterpodcast.beehiiv.com/subscribe   YouTube: https://youtu.be/AY2lwkhd2xI   Jeremy Lyons LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lyonsjeremy/   With your Host Benjamin Mena with Select Source Solutions: http://www.selectsourcesolutions.com/  Benjamin Mena LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminmena/  Benjamin Mena Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benlmena/

In this insightful episode, host Amir speaks with Tanaz Mody, Head of People Operations and Talent at Lerer Hippeau, to explore the unique challenges founders face in hiring and leadership. The conversation highlights the complexities of transitioning from founder to CEO, building trust, and making strategic hiring decisions in early-stage startups. Tanaz provides practical advice on delegation, setting expectations, and the evolving role of People Operations in supporting business growth. Episode Highlights Founders and Hiring Challenges The emotional attachment founders have to their business often makes hiring decisions difficult. Common pitfalls in hiring due to lack of alignment on company needs. Delegation and Trust The importance of founders learning to delegate effectively and trust their teams. Building safe spaces for transparent communication and collaboration. Strategic Decision-Making Setting milestones and frameworks to align hiring with business goals. How People Operations can facilitate smoother transitions during early-stage growth. From Founder to CEO The mindset shift required to evolve from a hands-on founder to a strategic CEO. Overcoming the challenges of scaling leadership and adapting to new roles. VC Talent Partners' Role Unique insights from VC-backed talent advisors to help startups scale efficiently. Support for founders in aligning business strategy with leadership growth. Key Takeaways Trust and Delegation are Non-Negotiable Founders must embrace delegation and trust their team to scale the business effectively. Strategic Hiring Requires Milestones Establish clear benchmarks to ensure hires align with the company's current and future needs. Transitioning to CEO Requires a Mindset Shift Founders need to focus on big-picture strategy rather than micromanaging daily tasks. People Operations is Key to Scaling A well-defined People Ops strategy ensures smoother transitions and long-term growth. Listen now for actionable insights on building a stronger team, scaling leadership, and navigating the founder-to-CEO journey! Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe for more engaging conversations with industry leaders. Guest:  Tanaz Mody is the Head of People Operations and Talent at Lerer Hippeau, where she drives strategic hiring and fosters high-performing teams. With extensive experience across industries, she specializes in innovative recruitment strategies, inclusive work environments, and aligning talent with organizational goals. LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanazmody/ ---- Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Talent Tango. We would appreciate it if you would take a minute to rate and review us on your favorite podcast player. Want to learn more about us? Head over at https://www.elevano.com Have questions or want to cover specific topics with our future guests? Please message me at https://www.linkedin.com/in/amirbormand (Amir Bormand)

What does it mean to be an AI-powered organization?How can AI help you to be a more strategic HR leader?My guest on this episode is Prasad Setty, Lecturer, Stanford GSB, Advisor, Former VP at Google, People Ops and Workspace.During our conversation Prasad and I discuss: How people analytics has evolved over the years and what's nextWhat it really means to become an AI-powered organizationWhy you should view AI as your thought partner, not as your replacementReal life examples of how AI is helping HR to deliver more value to their organizationsWhy the future of HR will center on scaling human judgment, not replacing itConnecting with Prasad: Connect with Prasad Setty LinkedInEpisode Sponsor: Deeper Signals - Click here to get your free Core Drivers assessment and 14-day free trial! Next-Gen HR Accelerator - Learn more about this best-in-class leadership development program for next-gen HR leaders

Send us a textIn this episode, Ken and Mike discuss the pressing issue of staffing security in the DevSecOps field. They explore the challenges of finding qualified application security professionals, the importance of diverse backgrounds in security roles, and the paradox of understaffed security teams despite a high demand for cybersecurity jobs. The conversation also delves into strategies for mitigating staffing issues, such as empowering security champions within organizations, leveraging automation and tooling, and avoiding bottlenecks in security processes. Throughout the discussion, they emphasize the need for a balanced approach to security that considers both technical and human factors.

Jessica speaks with Pamela Mendoza Brasunas, People Ops Leader for early stage startups & Birth Doula. As a startup leader, Pamela creates and nurtures company culture for startups with an ambitious mission. She currently serves as the Head of People Ops at PayZen, and she previously helped grow startups like Udemy and Carbon Health, as well as the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco. A trained birth doula, Pamela founded her doula business Butterfly Birthing, inspired by her work with Planned Parenthood, where she guided and supported pregnant teens. Butterfly Birthing educates women by preparing them for labor, and laying the foundation for empowered birth experiences. Pamela earned her BA in Ethnic Studies from UC Berkeley, and she's a graduate of The Art of Leadership Mastery Program. She's an avid backpacker who completed the Pacific Crest Trail. She loves to dance, support the arts, and spend time in nature and with her family. Find Pamela on LinkedIn and learn more about Butterfly Birthing ~ Are you a high achiever, a leader, or an Ampersand who's recently taken on more responsibility at work? For high-achieving professionals, Jessica Wan's executive coaching services stand out as a rare gem. She provides strategic guidance and practical solutions, a unique offering that not only propels her clients' careers forward but also builds their capacity for significant leadership roles in their respective sectors. Her innovative coaching techniques and personalized approach set her apart from the rest. BOOK AN INTRO CALL: ⁠https://calendly.com/jessicawancoaching/intro-call-coaching⁠⁠ Follow Jessica on LinkedIn Credits Produced and Hosted by ⁠⁠Jessica Wan⁠⁠ Co-produced, edited, and sound design by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Carlos Schmitt⁠ Theme music by ⁠⁠Denys Kyshchuk⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Stockaudios⁠⁠ from ⁠⁠Pixaba⁠y⁠

When I share success stories from my coaching practice, I always tell the story of my guest's today. Melissa Lockhart and I met at a pivotal moment in her HR career. Our work together led her to leave a successful career in HR to start her very own nightwear brand, Melda Moda. Today, Melissa joins me to share her HR story and explain why she left corporate HR to pursue her passion. It was a pleasure speaking with Melissa to learn about the drivers that led her to make the choice she did and about her success so far. Melissa is a true success story of what life looks like on the other side of HR burnout. She has been featured in Essence, Brides, and Uptown, and her line is worn by everyday women as well as Real Housewives and Influencers. I am so proud of Melissa for doing the work internally to help her get to where she is today. I am honoured to have been a part of her story, and we hope her story will encourage you. Melissa also recommended checking out the book Bevelations: Lessons from a Mutha, Auntie, Bestie by Bevy Smith. Check out Melda Moda https://meldamoda.com/  Follow Melissa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissalockhart/. Her tagline is "People Ops & Pajamas." This episode is brought to you by HR@Heart Consulting Inc. - The HR Safe Space.    

As a creative entrepreneur, do you ever feel like your job completely transformed overnight? One moment, you're working in your creative zone of genius, and the next, you're knee-deep in job descriptions, payroll, team performance reviews...the whole People Ops shebang. Not exactly what you had in mind when you branched out on your own, is it?Not everyone loves this shift. Some folks thrive, while others feel a little lost. If you're gearing up to hire a team or have already taken the leap into leadership, how do you handle this new reality of growth?Today, I'm chatting with Kristin Richards, CEO of In Flow Design Co. She's here to share her journey from creative entrepreneur to people leader and how she keeps her creative passion alive through it all.We dive into:-Taking accountability when things go wrong- Empowering your team to discover what excites them-Balancing leadership with finding joy in your business-Staying true to your values, no matter what-Rethinking the employee vs. contractor debate-Building trust with a network of experts to grow your businessJoin us for a candid, empowering conversation that'll inspire you to embrace your evolution as a leader while staying true to what lights you up. About KristinKristin Richards is the CEO and creative director of the branding and website design agency In Flow Design Co. Kristin launched her business while living overseas in Australia, and has grown it beyond a one-woman show into having a team and selling digital products. Her company In Flow specialties in working with clients in the coaching, consulting and luxury travel industries. She is also a certified mindset & success coach, and believes in building a business based around your values and lifestyle.Links MentionedIn Flow Design: https://inflowdesignco.com/ Steal Kristin's step-by-step website launch process! This is the same process she and her team use with her website design clients - all in one handy dandy free checklist: https://inflowdesignco.com/website-launch-checklist Launch your website workshop: https://inflowdesignco.com/intentional-website-workshop

My guest on E337 of #thePOZcast is Kirsta Tan. Krista has 15+ years of experience in people operations, talent acquisition, and business strategy. She served as President of Premier Talent Partners, leading a top talent team of 65, which was honored as a "Best Place to Work" by INC and SF Business Times. As she transitioned out of the agency, she became Head of People at Fieldguide, a Series A startup, where she led recruiting and people strategy. Krista is currently Co-Founder of Talent Collective and COO of Talent Refinery. This is a fantastic convo on her career journey and the ins and outs of recruitment and team building. For more information on Krista: Follow their LI page to get notified when event pages go upTopics include - Total Compensation, The VC Talent Partner Role, Recruiting Assessments that predict Job Performance, Women's Pay Equity, AI and more! https://www.linkedin.com/company/talentcollectiveco/ https://www.talentcollectiveco.com/ Connect with her on LinkedIn and learn about upcoming Launching Talent Collective communities in NY, Austin, and Chicago over the next three months. https://www.linkedin.com/in/krista-scarborough-tan/ #thePOZcast is brought to you by our friends at Interseller, the prospecting and outreach platform for recruiters and sellers. Check out a free demo today! https://bit.ly/2Fbm/BZ Thanks for listening, and please follow us on Insta @NHPTalent and X @AdamJPosner. For past shows, please visit www.thePOZcast.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review/rating. It goes a long way. https://ratethispodcast.com/thepozcast Thanks!

Distinguished colleagues, valued partners, and cherished members of our workplace community, thank you for gathering here today. As a humble representative of the HR department, it is my distinct honor, and undeniable displeasure, to present to you: The State of the HR Union.Compliance training is now shorter with a 'skip to the end' button, because we know you'll never read them. Performance reviews have a new system, "Remember, Remember, the Performance in November," because we know managers forget everything until the last minute. Our wellness program introduces "Stretch and Snack" every Wednesday, and team-building now includes HR-organized escape rooms with company policy riddles — fun and educational.In closing, thank you for your efforts, not that we're really keeping track. Remember, HR is here — mostly because we have to be. Whether you need vague guidance, questionable support, or just someone to pretend to care about your wellbeing, we've got you covered.HRDLY Guest: Hebba Youssef is the Chief People Officer at Workweek and founder and creator of “I Hate it Here.” Her weekly newsletter has over 130,000 engaged readers and focuses on how HR/People teams can build great work cultures. Hebba has led a global learning and development team, ran talent management teams, and was most recently the Head of People at fintech startup. She's built People Ops teams from the ground up and scaled companies to double their size. Hebba has worked across several industries like tech, fintech, and media and was most recently at Axios and Lithic. In her free time, you can find her reading sci-fiction or fantasy novels and playing board games with her family. Subscribe to "I Hate It Here" newsletter: https://hateithere.co/Join Safe Space: https://hateithere.co/community/safe-space/Follow Hebba: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef/Hosted by Emily McMahon: an HR Executive who happens to be a raging introvert, is skeptical about people, and deeply loves the work of HR.Follow Emily: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ememcm/Follow HR Doesn't Like You: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hrdoesntlikeyou/

Matt Bradburn, Founder of The People Collective, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about why the People Ops as a Product movement is picking up steam, how to pilot this approach, and the biggest pitfalls when making the change. ---- This episode was brought to you by Tilt. Learn more at hellotilt.com/mpl. ---- (2:04) Good news stories (6:36) Matt's career journey (10:56) What The People Collective does (14:00) Why we should be jealous he gets to work at The People Collective (15:35) The possibility of humans and technology working together (19:47) The challenges we're going to face with AI (24:15) The skills junior employees should be focusing on (29:10) The best CPOs are data-driven, great storytellers, and know how and when to use empathy (34:50) The “People Ops as a Product” movement (45:08) Piloting People Ops as a Product (46:08) How to identify areas to pilot People Ops as a Product (49:05) Biggest pitfalls when moving to People Ops as a Product (55:09) Rapid fire questions ----

Kim Minnick is the Founder of Code Traveller HR. She is a long time People Ops professional with a healthy obsession for elegant processes, engaged teams, and great operational practices. She has the foundations and trainings skills to support innovative companies in building their digital environment. In this episode, Kim explores the importance of feedback, mentorship, and continuous learning for professional growth. In this episode, we discuss: Effective Feedback CollectionTaking Responsibility for Professional DevelopmentMisconceptions about HR and People OpsYou can find Kim on her Linkedin

Oil and water. Fire and ice. CEOs and CPOs.  Some things just don't go together like they should. But does it always have to be that way?  In this super candid conversation, Hebba chats with her IRL CEO at Workweek, Adam Ryan, to discuss the complex relationship between CEOs and CPOs. Adam opens up about the CEO's perspective on HR and shares his thoughts on how HR leaders can build a better relationship with their CEO.  What role can honesty, vulnerability, and empathy play in building a better path forward for both sides? And does there always have to be a conflict of interest between the two departments? Adam reveals what it's like to hold the weight of an entire company on his shoulders and explains the role that ego can play in conflict. Plus, what's the best way to capture the attention of a reluctant or stubborn CEO? Adam shares his best tips for effective communication strategies and opens his playbook for successful HR/CEO relations.  And later, find out the top warning signs and red flags of when a CEO/CPO relationship is about to turn sour and Adam's super juicy take on why employees leave.    00:00:00 - Navigating the Tension Between HR and CEO 00:01:13 - When Company Values Clash: Reasons to Leave 00:08:57 - CEO and CPO Relationship Dynamics Unpacked 00:13:58 - The Importance of Consistent Communication with CEOs 00:16:56 - Navigating Tensions in Company Communications 00:23:25 - Understanding Your CEO's Perspective in Decision Making 00:28:44 - HR and Finance Roles: A Balancing Act 00:34:37 - Building Strong Working Relationships at Work 00:38:01 - Strengthening HR-CEO Relationship with Empathy    And if you love HR Therapy, sign up to I Hate it Here, the newsletter for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration. https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/   And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here for even more exclusive insider content!   Follow Adam:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamtryan/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/AdamRy_n Podcast: Perpetual   Follow Hebba:  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef Twitter: https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef

Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs) are like the circus of the corporate world, complete with high stakes, tight deadlines, and the constant fear of being thrown to the lions. Just as the circus performers must impress the audience with their death-defying acts, employees on a PIP are under intense pressure to dazzle their managers with a dramatic turnaround in performance. It's a spectacle of hope and desperation, where every missed deadline feels like a tightrope walk over a pit of failure, and every completed task is met with the applause of reluctant optimism. With managers cracking the whip of accountability and employees desperately trying to keep all their plates spinning at once, there's always the lingering question of whether the show will end in triumph or disaster. So grab your popcorn and take your seat, because the PIP circus is about to begin, and the only thing certain is that with a sprinkle of luck, you just might emerge from the PIP purgatory as a better, stronger, and slightly more traumatized employee.HRDLY Guest: Kim Minnick is the People Ops leader you shouldn't take out in public. She brings a modern take to old practices and has a healthy obsession with Performance Management. After spending a decade building People Ops functions in high growth start-ups, she recently launched an independent fractional business with the goal of making work suck less. Follow Kim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-minnick/Code Traveller HR: https://www.codetravellerhr.com/Hosted by Emily McMahon: an HR Executive who happens to be a raging introvert, is skeptical about people, and deeply loves the work of HR.Follow Emily: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ememcm/Follow HR Doesn't Like You: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hrdoesntlikeyou/

We chat with Cris Domingo, Head of People, Culture, and Talent at Productboard, about the key shift many HR departments have made in recent years, taking a more proactive approach toward people. In a post-Covid world, companies have had to adapt and embrace changes in their office environments, with HR essentially becoming champions of culture and fostering career growth with employees.We discuss the importance of trust, proactivity, and honest communication, the benefits of diverse workspaces, and the pivotal role of women in tech. Cris also shares ways people can be mindful when considering a career move and why the interview process should always be a two-way street and she offers insights on our company culture and what she's most excited about in the coming months.  Interested in joining our team? We're hiring across multiple departments. Check out our careers page for the latest vacancies. We'd love to hear from you!

This is a very special episode in partnership with the Institute for Corporate Productivity, also known as i4cp where I had the opportunity to attend their annual “Next Practices Now Conference” in Scottsdale Arizona.Over three days, 500 HR leaders came to Scottsdale, where they were treated to over 25 different presentations and key notes by thought leaders and HR practitionersI was fortunate to be able sit down to interview seven of those amazing speakers and bring their insights to you.So who are those amazing speakers….:Prasad Setty, Lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business & former VP, People Ops and Workspace, GoogleCharlene Li, Bestselling Author & Founder & CEO, Quantum Networks GroupDiane Gherson, former IBM CHRO, Board member of Kraft Heinz, Centivo and TechWolfMonica Pool Knox, who is a 2x CHRO, HR Tech Advisor, Board DirectorSal Falletta, Professor for Human Resource Leadership and Organizational Science, Drexel University and author of “Creepy Analytics: Avoid Crossing the Line and Establish Ethical HR Analytics for Smarter Workforce Decisions”Elliott Masie, Chair, MASIE Learning FoundationKevin Oakes, CEO, i4cpEpisode Sponsor:BizLibrary - Where Learning Happens

It's YOUR time to #EdUp In this episode, recorded in person at the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ellucian Live 2024⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Conference in San Antonio, Texas, #elive24, YOUR guest is ⁠⁠Bill Blackford, VP of Global Talent Acquisition & People Ops, Ellucian YOUR host is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dr. Joe Sallustio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Listen in to #EdUp! Thank YOU so much for tuning in. Join us on the next episode for YOUR time to EdUp! Connect with YOUR EdUp Team - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Elvin Freytes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dr. Joe Sallustio⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ● Join YOUR EdUp community at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The EdUp Experience⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We make education YOUR business! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/edup/message

In this episode, Jeff interviews Kelly Ann Doherty the current Executive VP and Chief Administrative Officer at the Mr. Cooper Group, overseeing a very large aspect of the company's people and operations functions. She has nearly 20 years of experience serving some of the nation's leading organizations in both Communications and People Ops. Jeff and Kelly Ann delve into corporate communication myths, emphasizing the dual role of both the "little C" in everyday dialogue with employees, and the "big C" of strategic messaging. They highlight the power of authenticity in fostering genuine connections and share innovative approaches like "Cooper Con," a conference with fun segments like "Hot Takes" to engage employees. They discuss how communication can be a strategic and competitive advantage, and how to assess your effectiveness at it, both individually and corporately. Their conversation also explores storytelling's impact on culture and brand equity, using personal experiences to drive employee engagement. Strategies for bridging generational gaps and practical tips for enhancing communication skills round out this dynamic discussion, as Kelly Ann shares a roadmap for personal and professional growth in corporate communication.

It's today, and HR is still fighting for their right to party -- after all, we're in charge of planning them, right? In reality, HR is the mastermind and heartbeat of any organization, and every single People professional feels this deeply. We also don't necessarily like people or care if you like us.This podcast will share edgy, unadulterated stories and perspectives of what it truly means to be a People Ops, Talent, and Culture leader in the modern workplace. Stay don't go, as we're certain these thoughts are already living rent free in your head -- and who doesn't love to commiserate more than HR folks? Semi-kidding, but we're here to validate your day-to-day trials & hail marys, and help you feel a little less lonely through the HR haze of it all.And shoutout to any Founder, CEO, CFO, or COO -- we also made this for you. You're cordially invited to wander into any episode to find out why.Hosted by Emily McMahon: an HR Executive who happens to be a raging introvert, is skeptical about people, and deeply loves the work of HR.

I'm THRILLED to introduce you to one of the smartest people I know: People Ops leader and leadership expert Jocelyne Norris! She helped me personally through a very tough season of my career where I felt "crazy" and burnt out, helping me get my confidence back and get through to the other side. Jocelyne helps people identify how they operate best and teaches them how to communicate that inside of their careers so they can have more freedom and do better work! Long story short, Jocelyne truly puts the PEOPLE back in People Ops, helping employees build the careers they want, and companies get the best out of their people. This conversation is particularly valuable as Americans face one of the toughest job markets in recent memory. If you're on the hunt for a job, wondering how to best show up in interviews, and need guidance on what questions to ask potential employers- this one is for you! We're also talking about the INCREDIBLY important topic of DE&I: Diversity Equity and Inclusion. We're defining those three terms (they're all different!), and talking about how companies can benefit their employees' wellbeing AND their overall business with measurable DE&I efforts. CONNECT WITH JOCELYNE: https://www.linkedin.com/in/norrisjocelyne/ www.Jocelynenorris.com www.Intentionalops.com CONNECT WITH KELSEY http://www.kelseyformost.com http://www.instagram.com/kelsey.writes

In this episode, host David Murray speaks with Julia Psitos from Alfred, a technology platform for residential managed housing. Julia discusses various HR topics, such as the importance of removing barriers in job roles, the challenges of remote work, and the benefits of a four-day work week. They also touch on the need for clarity around job roles and expectations, employee development, company culture, and the significance of learning and development. Julia highlights the concept of people ops, focusing on compensation, trust-building, community connection, skill mastery, and job fulfillment. And she calls the Employee Hierarchy of Needs.Make sure to subscribe and follow "Break The Wheel" wherever you get your podcasts, for a dose of workplace reality and innovation. “A lot of times we jump to the shiny new thing or the thing that everybody's talking about. And maybe that's career pathing right now, if you're so far down the path on career pathing, but then you're not communicating, you're not responsive, you've messed up, people's pay. It really doesn't matter." - Julia PsitosTimestamps:00:00 Gen Z workers optimistic, all face workplace challenges.06:26 Remote work, hybrid, and four-day work week.08:00 Workers embrace the four day work week.10:25 Avoiding office policy by creative scheduling.14:01 Choosing the unseen option in negotiations.17:43 HR leaders cautious but eager to adopt AI.23:03 Gen Zers cannot afford, kudos to you.24:14 Julia highlights "Employee hierarchy of needs vs. People Ops Approach" 29:39 David's embarrassing work story from early days at Google.34:12 Company performance issues lead to layoffs surprise.40:31 Potential increase in learning and development budgets.41:12 Embrace and invest in your talent wisely.46:21 Recognizing and celebrating the quiet contributors.You can also watch Break the Wheel on Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/@ConfirmHR Connect with Julia Psitos:Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-psitos/ Connect with David Murray, host:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dimurray/Connect with Confirm:Website: https://www.confirm.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/confirm.hr/Be updated and know the latest in the world of HR ?Join our Weekly Newsletter: https://www.confirm.com/newsletter

Q Hamirani, the Chief People Officer at Paper, joins Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church to discuss navigating the CPO seat under immense pressure, the real deal behind Airbnb's remote work policy, how design thinking helps solve people problems, and how the people function should not be left behind by the AI revolution. They also touch on great stories and tactical insights from Q's time as AirBnB s and his current CPO role at edtech company Paper (https://paper.co/). Learn more about Q's AI community for people leaders: https://www.thepeoplegpt.com/ HR Heretics is part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.co -- SPONSORS: Lattice | Continuum ✅ Discover HR software that drives performance with Lattice: https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics High performance and great culture should never be at odds; they're better together. With Lattice People Management Platform, companies efficiently run people programs that create enviable cultures where employees want to do their best work. Serving 1000s of customers of all sizes. Learn why companies from Slack to the LA Dodgers choose Lattice. https://www.lattice.com/hrheretics ✅ Hire Fractional Executives with Continuum using this link: https://bit.ly/40hlRa9 Have you ever had a negative experience hiring executives? Continuum connects executives and senior operators to venture-backed tech companies for fractional and full-time roles. You can post any executive-level role to Continuum's marketplace and search through our database of world-class, vetted leaders. There is no hidden cost, you only pay the person you hire. And you can cancel at any time. www.Joincontinuum.com – KEEP UP WITH Q, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Q: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamirani/ Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ – TIMESTAMPS: 00:00) Preview (01:30) Q's wild background (07:40) How the engineer in Q handled the rejection going into HR (09:27) Having a business background (11:37) Balancing the dynamics of design thinking and love for iteration (13:07) Transitioning from Airbnb to Paper (17:27) On avoiding burnout while building your team (19:47) How Airbnb handled layoffs (23:53) Sponsor - Lattice | Continuum (25:37) The Digital Nomad program (31:05) What would Q change in terms of handling comp given the circumstances of today's market? (33:50) The future of work debate with AI (36:38) Getting people back in the office and maintaining morale (41:51) How do you react when things don't go your way? (48:21) AI and the direction of People Ops and recruiting (57:10) Q's favorite interview question (58:10) Q's best hire and why

New year, new perspective? As we get ready to face the new year, we may need some inspiration to tackle the never ending dumpster-fire that can be HR and People Ops.    In this special episode, we've gathered insights from some of the top HR experts around. Join Hebba in the all-star studded episode where she asks her guests one important question:    “What's your one wish for HR in 2024?”   From prioritizing employee well-being to reevaluating the job candidate experience and reassessing the value of DE&I, if you're looking for some inspiration for your own HR goals into the new year, you won't want to miss out on this episode!    And if you love HR Therapy, sign up to I Hate it Here, the newsletter for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration. https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/   For even more exclusive insider content, don't forget to check out my YouTube page.    Follow Hebba:  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef Twitter: https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef   15Five is the performance management platform that drives business results and gives HR teams a complete solution to deliver high employee performance, engagement, and retention while improving manager effectiveness.    Find out more about 15Five here.   And if you'd like to keep learning, Hootsuite's new 2023 Social Media Career Report is loaded with insights about social marketers' pay, promotions, job satisfaction, challenges, gender pay equity, mental health, and more—to help you attract, hire, and retain the best social marketers. Uncover the state (and state of mind) of the social media marketer in the full report!

On this episode of Rehash, we're speaking with Brennan Mulligan, DAO Program Manager at SuperRare Labs, about effective leadership strategies in DAOs, new spins on progressive decentralization, and Brennan's new ultrarunning career.If you're a DAO operator or a facilitator or manager in any organization, you'll really enjoy this episode and learn something new from Brennan. He shares so many insightful learnings from his time in DAOs and pulls from his background in cognitive science to really understand the ways in which people and organizations function. COLLECT THIS EPISODEhttps://www.rehashweb3.xyz/ FOLLOW USRehash: https://twitter.com/rehashweb3Diana: https://twitter.com/ddwchenBrennan: https://twitter.com/Bmulligan56SuperRare: https://twitter.com/SuperRare LINKSAnticapture by Spencer Graham: https://spengrah.mirror.xyz/f6bZ6cPxJpP-4K_NB7JcjbU0XblJcaf7kVLD75dOYRQThe Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman: https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htmHats Protocol: https://twitter.com/hatsprotocolATX DAO: https://twitter.com/ATXDAORareDAO: https://twitter.com/rare_protocolSuperRare Forum: http://forum.superrare.com TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro2:38 Brennan's background in DAOs6:26 Have Brennan's feelings toward DAOs changed?7:39 Brennan's definition of DAO9:07 What is “capture resistance”?13:25 Brennan's biggest learnings from organizing people in DAOs21:31 Balancing inclusivity with productivity in DAOs29:15 Trust enables centralization35:09 Progressive decentralization38:35 DAO compensation models47:17 Ultrarunning and the human body as a DAO55:28 How Brennan crypto pills his friends and family56:13 Brennan's podcast guest nomination next season56:47 Brennan's favorite tech drama58:31 Follow Brennan DISCLAIMER: The information in this video is the opinion of the speaker(s) only and is for informational purposes only. You should not construe it as investment advice, tax advice, or legal advice, and it does not represent any entity's opinion but those of the speaker(s). For investment or legal advice, please seek a duly licensed professional.

For more information and resources, check out scalingresearch.com. -- “How did you get a job in Research Ops?” After I started my past role running Research Ops at Zapier, I got this question in my LinkedIn DM nearly every week. Folks from UX research, Design, People Ops, and many other practices would reach out to learn about my path into this field with an eye to making a switch themselves. Today, you get to hear this transition story from someone I greatly admire in the Research Ops community: Kasey Canlas. Kasey has taken a winding career path having worked in news and project management before making the shift into ReOps. In my chat with Kasey we cover: How volunteering time in UX research paved the way for her move into Research Ops. The power of getting a key leader bought into the ReOps practice. Solving low-hanging fruit to deliver value early on. Why you need to build relationships with the legal and data privacy teams at your company. Advice for a UXR leader who wants to launch ReOps. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/scalingresearch/message

In my interview with Scott Morris, CEO of AI Propulsion, we discuss unsuccessful return to the office policies and the evolution of the job description. The consensus? Traditional job descriptions are passe; what brings the most benefit are outcome-oriented job descriptions. Scott addresses issues related to a paradigm switch that would massively impact any recruiting organization. | This episode is brought to you by "The Recruiting Life" newsletter. Subscribe now at: https://jimstroud.beehiiv.com About my guest: Scott Morris, Co-Founder and CEO PropulsionAI www.getpropulsion.ai Scott Morris is a seasoned HR and People Operations leader with over two decades of experience in the field. His experience spans the complete range of HR disciplines. He has led People Ops in organizations ranging in size from 250 to 15,000 employees, giving him a unique perspective on the world of work. About the company: PropulsionAI is a talent management platform that emphasizes organizational fit. The company is poised to launch its maiden product, SPARC (an Intelligent Job Description Creator). Driven by Al and guided by a digital human, SPARC is a conversational Al tool that helps users quickly scope roles and then writes a complete job description, job posting, and social media posts for you. PropulsionAl's approach moves beyond traditional task oriented job descriptions, focusing on outcomes, competencies, and skills to enable alignment based on individual abilities. It empowers hiring managers directly without risk (no need for HR or compliance knowledge, ensures unbiased job postings, and fosters diverse hiring).  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The talent acquisition landscape is changing rapidly. 2024 has been difficult for many people in the profession, with many layoffs and an incredibly tough job market for recruiters. At the same time, advances in AI and automation technologies are driving types of change that we couldn't have imagined a few years ago, and post-pandemic labour shortages are still a reality in many talent markets. All this disruption is forcing employers to think differently about jobs, work, skills and recruiting, creating an incredible opportunity for talent acquisition to illustrate its long-term value to the business. So what role does TA play in the future, and how can TA leaders prove its strategic value when many of their teams are being downsized? My guest this week is Jessica Zwaan, COO at Whereby. Jessica is a cutting-edge HR thinker and has written a book detailing how People Ops should be run using product management principles. In our conversation, we talk about the future role of TA, and Jessica offers practical advice on how TA leaders can prove their strategic value. In the interview, we discuss: Talent market challenges Building a people team like a product team Work as a subscription model Output metrics and funnel thinking Why businesses cutting TA teams are getting it wrong Building tools and products for the employee subscription lifecycle The shortcoming of working in silos Closing the gaps between TA and People Ops Can existing HR functions evolve towards this model? A COO's advice to TA Leaders on proving their strategic value What TA can learn from marketing The impact of AI and what the future might look like Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.

Have you stumbled on Liam Darmody sipping your morning coffee? Yes. That guy. He doesn't brag about gaining a zillion followers overnight or peddling the latest "get-rich-quick" gimmicks. Liam is the brains behind "Liam's Brand Stand” a thriving startup that helps leaders, startup whizzes, and big company squads create magnetic brands on LinkedIn. True story? Liam's a number-crunching data-geek with a BIG heart. For nearly two decades, he's been an Ops guy, across everything from Marketing Ops to Revenue Ops to People Ops, etc. in the tech world. So, why did he start a branding company? Especially when so many think branding is “soft”. In this episode you'll find out: Why operationalizing personal branding is do or die? Your personal brand's 3 core content categories Why is branding about being a good “business citizen” Why your thought leadership is tied to your price point. Why vanity metrics don't matter as much as you think. For hidden job market insider tips and stories subscribe to Loren's newsletter here: "Out of Hiding" Newsletter Connect with Liam: Website: https://www.liamsbrandstand.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liamdarmody1/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/@liam.darmody Connect with Loren: Website: https://www.portfoliorocket.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorengreiff/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/portfoliorocket/ Email: Loren@portfoliorocket.com

Remote work is here for good, no matter how much some are fighting to return to the office.  And for many of us, our companies are entirely virtual and have never been in an office together.  While it's tempting to treat this environment as something completely different that doesn't need formal structure, it's been proven that structure and processes are even more essential for remote workers. Which is why I'm excited to have Valentina Thörne on the show. Valentina is a remote work systems expert who has helped thriving companies transition to and sustain distributed or hybrid models. Discover:  How SOPs allow you to better respond to your team's needs Why treating remote work differently can be detrimental to your team How to set expectations to maximize performance and flexibility A neat Slack tip to clean up your general channels While I've been working remote for many years now, I found myself walking away from this episode with new ideas that will be implemented into my own team.  Don't miss this episode if you want to see increased team performance and happiness within your own remote team.  Book a call with Valentina: https://valentinathoerner.com/operations/ Learn more at https://www.adamliette.com  Join the Facebook Group: https://www.adamliette.com/facebook Free Mini Course on Hiring Your Next Team Member: https://www.adamliette.com/hiring-course-optin Apply for a Free Strategy Session: https://go.oncehub.com/AdamLietteMeeting

If you enjoyed part 1 of this discussion, you will LOVE part 2!!  We continue our conversation with Courtney Muller about the perception of professionalism in today's workplace. And just in case you missed it the first time:Courtney Muller is a Certified Career & Leadership Coach and senior People Ops & Talent Acquisition professional with over 15 years of experience in the finance, tech and retail industries. She loves to coach people to find success in all parts of their career advancement journey – especially helping corporate professionals land the job they'll love long-term. She also specializes in leadership development and partnering with clients to be impactful corporate leaders. In this episode, we discuss:- the various roles AI is playing in the employment process- the skills that AI will never replace- what is success and how to obtain it- the things that will matter when your career is overThere was A LOT of laughter in this episode but what was even more abundant was the quality of the content shared!  When you arrive at the end, you will know without a shadow of doubt that "Court was, indeed, in session"! LOL  We'd like to thank Courtney again for sharing her experience and insight with us and to learn more about how she might support your career journey, you can contact her at https://www.courtneymuller.com.Support the show

A few episodes back, we discussed AI's effect on the economy and, specifically, on jobs.  One of the points we made was that employers would be HAPPY to replace many in today's workforce.  Due to that fact we've decided to bring in some professional help to discuss this further and how the workers of tomorrow can remain in demand.  Enter Courtney Muller!Courtney Muller is a Certified Career & Leadership Coach and senior People Ops & Talent Acquisition professional with over 15 years of experience in the finance, tech and retail industries. She loves to coach people to find success in all parts of their career advancement journey – especially helping corporate professionals land the job they'll love long-term. She also specializes in leadership development and partnering with clients to be impactful corporate leaders. In this episode, we discuss:- the psyche of today's workforce- which skills will be the most valued moving forward- the challenges of work flexibility vs productivity - companies implementing policies in an ever-evolving society- what is HR's function and how has it changed in recent timesWe covered so much ground that we decided to break this episode up in to 2 parts so be sure to come back and check out part 2!!  We'd like to thank Courtney for sharing her experience and insight with us and to learn more about how she might support your career journey, you can contact her at https://www.courtneymuller.com.Support the show

Q Hamirani (Chief People Officer, Paper) joined us on The Modern People Leader.  We talked about the Live and Work Anywhere Program from his time at Airbnb, how he navigates moments of uncertainty, and how he's approaching his first 90 days as Chief People Officer at Paper. ---- This episode was brought to you by Learnerbly. Get a free 7-day trial of Learnerbly here: https://get.learnerbly.com/mpl/ ---- Timestamps: (2:36) Good news stories (6:03) Q's journey: Engineering student —> consultant —> global strategy & ops —> HR consulting —> MBA —> People Ops —> Chief People Officer (15:00) What Paper does (15:49) Why we should be jealous he gets to work at Paper (17:30) How Live and Work Anywhere came about at Airbnb (26:56) The four pillars of the Live and Work Anywhere program (32:30) The definition of global mobility changed during the pandemic (38:18) How he operates in moments of uncertainty (44:50) What attracted him to Paper (46:55) How he's going to approach his first 90 days as Chief People Officer (50:30) Rapid fire questions  Subscribe to the MPL Weekly Digest: https://forms.gle/qdt6YaWULfoEHb6n8 Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-modern-people-leader

Workers share more data with their employers than with any other service. Whether it's work history, educational experience,family structure, etc. employers have all of this information at their fingertips. What if that data could be used to deliver a better experience for every employee? That's the question that Kiran Menon asked when he founded Tydy, a People Ops Automation platform. Kiran believes with the increasing number of systems in organizations, employee data is just sitting in silos, and he saw a need for a product to build a cohesive, unified profile of an individual.Join Jim and Kiran as they discuss how a People Ops platform can improve the employee experience. They discuss whatPeople Ops means and its growing popularity, building custom systems for large businesses (we're talking 100,000+), and how Kiran's experience in enterprise sales translates to his work as a founder of a startup. 3 Key TakeawaysDon't Shy Away From the Rough Days: When building a business, it's inevitable that you'll go through rough patches. Embrace those challenges as they come and build back better every time. You want to build an organization that lasts. Identify Your Gatekeepers: Although these aren't the people who are actually purchasing your service, gatekeepers have a huge influence on whether or not your deal goes through. Find a way to show value to them and how you can make them look good in the sales process! Navigating Procurement: When selling to an enterprise, you're not just selling to the user-group of the product, you have to convince the whole company to get on board. In many cases, this means you will need to go through a procurement process. Be patient, focus on the overall value of your product, and trust in what you've created. ResourcesKiran's LinkedInTydy Company WebsiteAbout Kiran Menon is the CEO & Co-Founder at Tydy - the People Ops Automation platform. Prior to starting Tydy, Kiran worked 17 years in Sales & Consulting with companies like Opera Software, Case Consulting Group and more.If you love what you are getting out of our show please SUBSCRIBE.For more information on how we dig into the dirt check out our other episodes here: https://www.orchid.black/podcastAll contents of this show are rights of Orchid Black©️ and are not to be used unless authorized by written consent.

thoughtbot had an in-person Summit in the UK! Joël recalls highlights. Stephanie is loving daily sync meetings on a new project. The idea of deleting code has been swimming around in Stephanie's brain recently because she's been feeling nervous about it. Together, Joël and Stephanie explore ways of gaining confidence to delete code while feeling good about it. This episode is brought to you by Airbrake (https://airbrake.io/?utm_campaign=Q3_2022%3A%20Bike%20Shed%20Podcast%20Ad&utm_source=Bike%20Shed&utm_medium=website). Visit Frictionless error monitoring and performance insight for your app stack. Thoughtbot summit video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7gUq5J-ck) Gather Town (https://www.gather.town/) Sustainable Rails episode (https://www.bikeshed.fm/368) Chelsea Troy on deleting features (https://chelseatroy.com/2021/01/21/reducing-technical-debt/) Unused (https://unused.codes/) elm-review-unused (https://package.elm-lang.org/packages/jfmengels/elm-review-unused/latest/) Transcript: STEPHANIE: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Bike Shed, a weekly podcast from your friends at thoughtbot about developing great software. I'm Stephanie Minn. JOËL: And I'm Joël Quenneville. And today, we're here to share a bit of what we've learned along the way. STEPHANIE: So, Joël, what's new in your world? JOËL: I just got back from a few days in the UK, where thoughtbot has been having an in-person Summit, where we've brought people from all over the company together to spend a few days just spending time with each other, getting to know each other, getting to connect in person. STEPHANIE: That sounds like it was a lot of fun. I've been hearing really great things about it from folks who've come back. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it this year. I got sick a little bit beforehand and then ended up not being able to go. But it sounds like it was a lot of fun just to get together, especially since we're now a remote company. JOËL: Yeah, I'm really sorry you weren't able to make it there. It would have been amazing to do a Bike Shed co-hosts get-together. STEPHANIE: I know. In the same room, maybe even record. What a concept. [laughs] JOËL: So thoughtbot is a fully remote company, and so that means that getting a chance to have people to come together and build those in-person connections that you don't get, I think, is incredibly valuable. I was really excited to meet both the people that I work with and that I see on my screen every day and people who I don't talk to as often because they're working on different teams or different departments even. STEPHANIE: What was one highlight of the time you spent together? JOËL: I'll give a couple of highlights, one I think is more on the activity side. We went bouldering as a group. This was a really popular activity. We were trying to sign up people for it, and it was so popular we had to make two groups because there were too many people who were interested. And it was really fun. There are people with a whole variety of skill levels. Some people, it was their first time, some people had been doing it for a while. And just getting together and solving problems was a lot of fun. STEPHANIE: Yes, I saw that. That was one of the things I was really looking forward to doing when I was still thinking that I was going to go. And it's cool that it had opportunities for both beginners and people who have been doing it before, which I think, if I recall correctly, Joël, you are a boulderer yourself back home. So that's pretty neat that you were able to, yeah, I don't know, maybe share some of that experience IRL too. JOËL: Yeah, yeah, I think it's great because people were able to help each other. Sometimes you have a different perspective down on the ground than you do up on the wall. And then, in my case, because I've done it a lot, I know a little bit of actual climbing technique. And so I can give some tips on, like, oh, if you're stuck and you don't know how to get past a particular point, or you don't know how to start a particular climb, or your arms are getting tired halfway up, here's maybe a small change you can make that would make things easier for you. STEPHANIE: Honestly, that also sounds like a really good metaphor for pair programming, [laughs] like, looking at things from different perspectives, you know, someone who's on the wall? I don't know what the lingo is. But it's the equivalent of someone driving in coding, the navigator having a little more perspective and being able to point out things that they might not see that's right in front of them. JOËL: I love that metaphor. Now I'm going to think of that both when I pair and the next time I climb. STEPHANIE: I love it. JOËL: I think climbing, when I do it, it's always more fun with a friend, specifically for what you were saying. I climb alone sometimes, but as much as possible, I'll reach out to another friend who climbs and say, "Hey, let's climb together." And then we can alternate on the same route even. STEPHANIE: That's cool. I didn't realize that it could be such a social activity. JOËL: It is very much a social activity, and I think that's part of the fun of it. It's challenging physically but also mentally because it's a puzzle that you solve. But then also, it's a thing that you do with friends. I think another aspect that was a highlight for me was getting a chance to connect with people from other teams, other departments within thoughtbot. I think one thing that was really nice when we were located in an office is that over lunch, or just at the water cooler, or whatever, you would connect with people who were in other teams and who were in different departments. So I might talk to people in People Ops, or in marketing, in operations just sort of in the natural course of the day in a way that I think I don't do quite as much of now that we're more remote. And I tend to talk more with other developers and designers on my team. So I think that was really great to connect with people from other teams and other departments within the company. STEPHANIE: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think I really miss the spontaneous, organic social interaction that you get from working in an office. And I think we've maybe talked about remote work on the podcast before, or previous co-hosts Steph and Chris have also talked about remote work. But it definitely requires a lot more intention to manifest those connections that otherwise would have been a little more organic in person. And so, while you all were at an in-person summit in the UK, there was also a virtual summit hosted for folks who weren't able to travel this time around, and I really appreciated that. I got to spend a day just connecting with other people in Gather Town, which is a web app that's like a virtual space where you have little avatars, and you can run around and meet up with people into virtual meeting rooms on this map. [laughs] I'm not really sure I'm describing it well, but it's very cute. It is almost like a little video game. It's like a cross between a video game and video conferencing [chuckles] software. But yeah, I think I just really appreciated how inclusive thoughtbot has been doing remote work where, like, yes, we really value these in-person gatherings, and we understand that there is a bit of magic that comes from that, but also making sure that no one's left out. And at the end of the day, not everyone can make it, but we were still able to hang out and socialize amongst ourselves in a different way. JOËL: Agreed. I think that inclusivity is part of what makes thoughtbot such a great place to work at. STEPHANIE: Speaking of inclusivity, I mentioned a few weeks ago that I joined a new project recently and had been going through the onboarding and hopping into all these new meetings. One thing that I've really enjoyed about this new client team that I'm on is that in their daily sync meetings, we all share what we're working on. But we also all share something that's new to us, which is a little bit meta because we do that on this podcast. [laughs] But each person just shares maybe something they learned at work but also usually something just totally not work related like a new show that they're watching. There's another person on my team who learns a lot of things from YouTube videos. And so he's always telling us about the new thing he learned about, I don't know, like mushrooms or whatever, or AI [laughs] through YouTube. And yeah, someone else might show a sweater that they just knit themselves. And it's been a very easy way to get to know people, especially when you're meeting a whole new team. And yeah, I've been enjoying it a lot. It's made me feel very welcome and like I know them as people outside of work. JOËL: I love that. Yeah, they're more than just people you're shipping code with. You're able to build that connection. And it sounds like that helps smooth the...maybe we can say the social aspect of onboarding. Because when you onboard onto a project, you're not just onboarding onto a series of codebases and tools; you're also onboarding onto a team, and you need to get to know people and build relationships. STEPHANIE: Yeah, absolutely. MID-ROLL AD: Debugging errors can be a developer's worst nightmare...but it doesn't have to be. Airbrake is an award-winning error monitoring, performance, and deployment tracking tool created by developers for developers that can actually help cut your debugging time in half. So why do developers love Airbrake? It has all of the information that web developers need to monitor their application - including error management, performance insights, and deploy tracking! Airbrake's debugging tool catches all of your project errors, intelligently groups them, and points you to the issue in the code so you can quickly fix the bug before customers are impacted. In addition to stellar error monitoring, Airbrake's lightweight APM helps developers to track the performance and availability of their application through metrics like HTTP requests, response times, error occurrences, and user satisfaction. Finally, Airbrake Deploy Tracking helps developers track trends, fix bad deploys, and improve code quality. Since 2008, Airbrake has been a staple in the Ruby community and has grown to cover all major programming languages. Airbrake seamlessly integrates with your favorite apps to include modern features like single sign-on and SDK-based installation. From testing to production, Airbrake notifiers have your back. Your time is valuable, so why waste it combing through logs, waiting for user reports, or retrofitting other tools to monitor your application? You literally have nothing to lose. Head on over to airbrake.io/try/bikeshed to create your FREE developer account today! JOËL: So you've been...is it two weeks in a new codebase? Have you gone and deleted any code yet? STEPHANIE: I wish. I am glad you asked this question because this has been a topic that has been swimming around in my head a little bit lately because this new client codebase it's very big and it's quite old. Like, I've been seeing code from 10 years ago. And it's been a really challenging codebase to get onboarded into, actually, because there's so much stuff. In fact, I recently learned that some of their model specs are so big that they have been split out into up to seven different files to cover specs for one model. [laughs] So that has been a lot to grapple with. And I think in my journeys working on a starter ticket, I've just stumbled upon stuff that is very confusing. And then I might follow that thread only to realize that, like, oh, this method that I spent 20 minutes trying to grok turns out it's not actually used anywhere. JOËL: That's a lot of dead code. STEPHANIE: It is a lot of dead code, but I am also not quite feeling confident enough to delete it because I'm new, because I have no idea what consequences that might have. So, yeah, the idea of deleting code has just kind of been swimming around in here because ideally, we would be able to, but, for some reason, I don't know, at least for me, I feel very nervous about it. So it hasn't been something that I've reached for. JOËL: That's a great question because I think in maybe Ruby, in particular, it's not always obvious if code is being used or not. When you do find yourself deleting code, how do you gain the confidence that it was safe to delete that? STEPHANIE: Yeah, that's a good question. In the past, when I've done it successfully, I'll probably post a Slack message or something and being like, hey, I noticed this code is not being used anywhere, or I'd like to delete it because why, like, I don't know, because it's been misleading me because it's just not providing any value. And then kind of give it like a day or two, and if no one speaks up about it, then I will usually go ahead. And obviously, get some code review, hopefully, get some other eyes on it just to make sure that whatever assumptions I made were valid, and then go for it. And then just watch [laughs] the deployment afterwards and make sure that there are no new errors, you know, no new complaints or anything like that. And, yeah, I think that has been my process, and I've definitely found success doing that. But I have also experienced a bad result [laughs] from doing that where one time, on my last client project, we were refactoring the signup flow. And we realized that after you signed up, you were redirected to this blank page for like 10 seconds or something. It was completely empty. There was nothing on it except a spinner, I think. [laughs] And then it would then redirect you to the dashboard of the app. And we were like, oh, we can definitely delete this. We have no idea what this is doing. We don't want to try to refactor this as part of the effort that we were doing. And so we deleted it, only to find out later from the marketing team that they had been using that page for something Google Analytics related, and we had to revert that change. And it was a real bummer because I think when we removed it, we felt good about that. We were like, oh yes, deleting code, awesome. And then having to bring it back without a clear plan of how to actually fix the problem that we were trying to solve was a bit of a bummer. JOËL: So, as programmers, we're hired to write code. Why does it feel so good to do the opposite of that, to delete code? STEPHANIE: That's a great question. I actually want to know what you think about this, but before that, I wanted to plug this Slack channel that we have at thoughtbot called Dead Code Society, where people can post their PR diffs showing more red than green, so more lines removed than lines added. And I have been really enjoying that Slack channel. It's very delightful. [laughs] But, Joël, do you have any thoughts about why it feels so good to delete code? JOËL: There are probably a few different reasons. Especially when it's not your own code, you're often not attached to it. There's often, I think, the sense when you go into an existing codebase you're just like, oh, everything's just bad, and I don't understand it. And those other coders who wrote this didn't know how to do their job and kind of be the curmudgeon character. So it just kind of feels good to remove that and maybe rewrite it yourself. I would say that's not a good mindset to go in for deleting code. I think there are positive ways where it is actually a good thing. STEPHANIE: That's fair. Just removing code because you would write it differently is not necessarily a net positive. [laughs] JOËL: But I think...so when I initially asked the question, I said, "We're hired to write code." And I think that's a bit of a false assumption built into the question. We're not hired to write code. We're hired to solve problems, to build solutions. And as much as code can be an asset in solving problems, it's also a liability. And code has varying maintenance costs that are typically not low. They vary from expensive to very expensive. And so any chance we get to remove some of that, we're removing some of the carrying costs, to use a term that we discussed a few episodes back when we talked about sustainable Rails. STEPHANIE: Yeah, absolutely. One thing that I remember you sharing about the client project that we're both on in the past is they have a very cumbersome test suite. And in some situations, you have wanted to advocate for deleting some of those tests. JOËL: Deleting tests is a really, I think, spicy take because you're trying to get better test coverage. And if your test coverage isn't great, you don't want to lose any of that. So there's definitely a loss aversion there, and we might need it later. At the same time, tests have a cost, cost to run, cost to maintain. And if they're not providing a lot of value, then the cost of keeping them around might be higher than any kind of benefit they're giving you. And I think a classic case of this is tests that have either been marked pending in the codebase with an exit or something like that or that have been marked in your CI server as muted; just ignore failures from this test. Because now you're still having to maintain, still having to execute these tests. They're costing you time, but they're giving you zero benefit. And they're just taking up space in your codebase, making it harder to read. So if you can't get these tests back into the point where they're actually executing, and you're caring about the output, then you probably don't need those tests, and they can be removed. STEPHANIE: Yeah, that's fair. I'm thinking about the perspective of someone who does not want to delete those tests. I think in the past, I've seen it and even felt it myself as someone who probably wrote the tests, kind of hoping for some ideal world where I will finally have time to go back to that test. And I already put a lot of effort into trying to make it work, and I want to make it work. I want to have the value of that test. And it's kind of like a sunk cost fallacy a little bit where it's like, I already spent however much time on it that it must have some kind of value. Because just hearing that someone else wants to delete the test can kind of hurt a little bit. [laughs] And it's tough. I do think that it's easier for someone with an outside perspective to be like, "Hey, this test is costing more than the value that it's providing." But yeah, I can see why people might have a little bit of pushback JOËL: Sometimes, the value of a test is also in the journey rather than the destination. STEPHANIE: Yeah, that's a good point. JOËL: So if you're practicing TDD, maybe you use some tests to help you drive out some functionality, help you come up with a design that you want to do. But maybe once you've actually created the design, the test that helped you get there is not actually that useful. I've heard some people will do this by writing a lot of more system tests-like tests that are very integration-heavy, that have a lot of edge cases that you might not care to test at that level, at that granularity. And so they use those to help drive a little bit of the implementation and then remove them because they're not providing that much value relative to their cost anymore. STEPHANIE: I think that's a really good point. The tests that you write for implementation can have value to you as a developer, but that's different from those tests having value to the business when you commit them to a codebase and incorporate them as part of CI and a CI that everyone else has to run as well. So yeah, I think in that case, the context definitely matters. And hopefully, you can feel good about the value that it provided but then also have that eye towards, okay, what about the business, and what values does the business have? JOËL: Yeah, and accept that the test did the job that it was supposed to do. It got you to where you needed to be, and it completed its purpose. And now it's ready to move on. STEPHANIE: Another thing that I recently read about deleting code...and this was from Chelsea Troy. She advocates for regularly evaluating features in an app and deciding whether they're providing enough value to justify keeping around and maintaining for developers as well. And I thought that was really interesting because I don't know if that's something that I'd really considered before that sometimes an app might outgrow some features, or they might not be worth keeping around because of the problems or the maintenance costs that they carry into the future. JOËL: That's fascinating because I think you're taking the same analysis we were talking about tests and then kind of like bringing it up now to the product level. Because now, we're not just talking about deleting code; we're talking about deleting functionality that a product might have. STEPHANIE: I think the challenge there is that the effects of the carrying cost of a feature is not necessarily felt by the business stakeholders, or product folks, or people operating at a higher level, but it is felt by developers. If there's a bug that's come up from this old feature, and oh, I have never seen this feature before, and now I have to spend a day learning about what this thing is before I can fix the bug. It did feel like a radical idea that maybe developers can play a part in advocating for some features to be retired, that is, you know, maybe separate from how products thinks about those things. JOËL: I think in order to be able to make those decisions or really just to be part of those conversations, the dev side needs to be really integrated with the product team and with larger business objectives. And so then you can say, look, if we take a week of one developer's time to provide the support this feature needs and we have one customer paying $20 a month for it, that's not a good business prospect. Now, is this strategically an area that we're trying to grow? And so yeah, we're doing it for one customer, but we're hoping to get 100 by the end of the year, and then it will be worth it. Then yes, maybe we keep that feature around. If this is the thing, like, we experimented for a few weeks five years ago, and then it's just kind of hang around as a legacy thing that this one person knows about and uses, then maybe it's worth saying, look, this has a high business cost. It might be worth sunsetting that feature. But it's a conversation that everybody needs to be involved in. STEPHANIE: Yeah, yeah. I like the idea of it being something more proactive versus, I don't know, something that I think I've seen at other orgs and just in general as a person who uses digital products, like, a feature or a product, just kind of dying. And probably the organization just wasn't able to find a team to continue to support it, and it just kind of kept being this burden. And then, eventually, it just was something that they had to let go. But then, at that point, you had already spent all of that time, and effort, and energy into figuring out what to do with this thing. Whereas the approach that Chelsea is advocating for is more realistic, I think, about the fate of [laughs] software products and features. And as a developer, I would get that feeling of deleting [laughs] code that is so satisfying. And I'm just not burdened by having to deal with something that is not providing value, like cumbersome tests. [laughs] JOËL: I think it's always the fundamental thing that you have to go back to when you're talking about deleting code, or features, or anything is that sort of cost-benefit analysis. Does this thing provide us any value? And if so, does that value outweigh the cost of the work we need to do to maintain it? And in the case of dead code, well, it's probably providing zero value, but it's imposing a cost, and so we want to remove it. In the case of a test that is not muted or pending, then maybe it does provide some value. But if it's really brittle and constantly breaking, and it's costing us many hours of fixing time, then maybe it's not. If we can't find a way to fix it and make it more valuable because sometimes it's the other option, then it might be worth considering deleting it. Have you ever, on a codebase, taken some time to actually seek out code that could be deleted as opposed to just sort of stumbling onto it yourself? STEPHANIE: That's a good question. I think I have not just explored a codebase just looking for stuff to delete, but I have...maybe if you had something under a feature flag and you no longer needed the flag because it was released to everyone, you know, going back to delete it because you specifically made a ticket to make sure that you went back and cleaned that up. I do really appreciate the tracking of that work in that way and just making sure you're like, hey, I want to avoid a situation where this becomes dead code. And even just making a card for it is putting that intention out there. And hopefully, someone, if not yourself, we'll take that on because it's important. JOËL: Yeah, kind of proactively trying to make sure that the work that you've done doesn't become dead code, that it gets pruned at the appropriate moment. STEPHANIE: What about you? I'm curious from your perspective as an individual contributor when you are just moving through a codebase, and you see something suspiciously [laughs] looking like dead code what you do with it. JOËL: I often like to split out a small PR just to remove that if it's not too much work and it's semi-related to what I'm doing. I'd like to give a shout-out to two tools that can help detect or confirm that something is dead code. One is Unused, written by former thoughtboter Josh Clayton. It uses, I think, Ctags under the hood to track all the tokens in an app and then tries to determine are there tokens that are orphaned, that are isolated, and are not used? And it can then build you a report. And that can be good if you're doing a code audit of a codebase or if you're looking to confirm that a piece of code that you're working on might not be, like, is it actually used or not? Another one is elm-review-unused, which is a plugin for elm-review which is Elm's linter, kind of like RuboCop. And what's really nice there is because it reads the AST, and Elm functions don't have side effects. You know that if something is not reachable from the main function that, it is completely safe to remove. You've run the script, and it will delete a bunch of functions for you that are unused, and it's 100% safe. And it is very thorough. It finds all of the dead code and just removes it. It's practically just a...it's not a button because it's a script that you run but that you can automate to run on commit or whatever on the CI. But yeah, that's an amazing experience to just have it auto clean-up for you all the time. STEPHANIE: That's really cool. I like that a lot. I think that would be really nice to incorporate into your development workflow, like you said, that it's part of the linting system and just keeping things tidy. JOËL: Yeah, I think it's a little bit harder to have something that's quite as thorough for a Ruby or Rails app just because it's so dynamic, and we've got all this metaprogramming. But yeah, maybe this would be a thing where you would want to run something like Unused or some other linting tool every now and then to just check; hey, do we have any dead code that can be removed? STEPHANIE: Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is totally a little bit different because we're just talking about tools, but I'm also thinking of red flags on a team level where I have definitely asked in a Slack channel, "Hey, I've never seen this feature before. What does it do?" and just crickets. [laughs] And even the product folks that I'm working with, they're like, "I don't know. It predates me," that being a bit of a smell, [laughs] if you will, to reevaluate some of those things. And those flags can exist on many different levels. JOËL: That's always terrifying because you're like 80% sure that this is dead code, but there's like a 20% chance that this powers the core of the app, but nobody's touched it in 10 years. STEPHANIE: Yeah, it is very scary. [laughs] JOËL: Hopefully, your test suite is good enough that if you comment out that function and then you run your test suite, that it just all goes red, and you know that that's actually needed for something. STEPHANIE: Yeah, though I think sometimes you might remove a piece of dead code, and there are some issues afterwards, and you find out, and you just revert it, and it's fine. At the end of the day, there are a lot of safeguards in place, and we've all done it. And so I think normalizing it is also very important in that it's okay if sometimes you make a mistake there. JOËL: Stephanie is giving you permission to go and delete that code today. Ship it to production, and if something breaks, it's okay. STEPHANIE: [laughs] JOËL: You can revert it. Hopefully, your company is set up where reverting commits from production is a cheap and easy thing to do, and life goes on. So I'm curious, Stephanie, have you ever gone into GitHub and checked your stats on a project to see if you're more red than green or what that ratio is for you on a given project? STEPHANIE: I have. Actually, someone else did on my behalf because I was posting a lot in that Dead Code Society Slack channel. And they then shared a screenshot of my overall contributions to a repo, and it was more red than green. I felt pretty good about myself. [laughs] JOËL: All right. Net negative but in a positive kind of way. STEPHANIE: In a positive way. [laughter] JOËL: On that note, shall we wrap up? STEPHANIE: Let's wrap up. [laughs] Show notes for this episode can be found at bikeshed.fm. JOËL: This show has been produced and edited by Mandy Moore. STEPHANIE: If you enjoyed listening, one really easy way to support the show is to leave us a quick rating or even a review in iTunes. It really helps other folks find the show. JOËL: If you have any feedback for this or any of our other episodes, you can reach us @_bikeshed, or you can reach me @joelquen on Twitter. STEPHANIE: Or reach both of us at hosts@bikeshed.fm via email. JOËL: Thanks so much for listening to The Bike Shed, and we'll see you next week. ALL: Byeeeeeeee!!!!!!! ANNOUNCER: This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot, your expert strategy, design, development, and product management partner. We bring digital products from idea to success and teach you how because we care. Learn more at thoughtbot.com.