Podcast appearances and mentions of kevin sprouse

Heart rate variability (HRV) is becoming an essential metric for athletes and high performers looking to optimize their training and recovery. In this episode of The Podium Podcast, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down what HRV is, how it works, and why it's important. They discuss how HRV reflects the balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and how it can help track recovery and stress levels.Dr. Sprouse and Patrick explore factors that impact HRV, including sleep, nutrition, hydration, and stress, and emphasizes the importance of long-term trends rather than day-to-day measurements. Tune in to learn how you can use HRV to guide your training decisions and improve your overall performance.

As cold and flu season hits, maintaining your health and performance becomes even more crucial. In this episode of The Podium Podcast, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris discuss practical strategies for athletes and high performers to stay healthy during the winter months. They cover the importance of hygiene, nutrition, rest, and sleep in boosting immunity.You'll also learn the impact of intense training on immune function and how athletes can prevent complications like myocarditis by prioritizing rest when ill. Tune in for key tips on maintaining your health and performance, even during the height of cold and flu season.

In this episode of The Podium Podcast, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down the science of recovery and share strategies for optimizing your performance. They introduce a recovery pyramid, starting with foundational elements like proper nutrition, hydration, sleep, and active warm-downs.They explore more advanced recovery techniques like massage and red light therapy, with the explicit warning that these methods are most effective when the basics are in place. Dr. Sprouse and Patrick also discuss the importance of balancing rest and recovery, because after all, there is no need to overcomplicate your recovery process. Tune in for actionable tips that will help you recover smarter and perform better.

What role do orthobiologics play in recovery? Dr. Kevin Sprouse sits down with Dr. Kendra Kemmet, director of the Sports Medicine fellowship program at the University of TN, to discuss orthobiologics, focusing on PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma) and stem cells. Dr. Kemmet explains the mechanisms behind PRP and stem cells and how they are used to accelerate healing, along with the evolution and clinical applications of these therapies in treating tendon and cartilage injuries.The conversation emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to treatment, combining orthobiologics with proper nutrition, sleep, physical therapy, and rest. Dr. Kemmet and Dr. Sprouse also address the limitations, risks, and ethical considerations of orthobiologics, offering insights on when these treatments may be appropriate. Tune in to learn more about these cutting-edge therapies and their role in optimizing recovery.

Welcome back to The Podium Podcast! After a brief hiatus, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris are back with a new season, and a new approach. Tune in for a series of episodes that cover timely topics like PRP, recovery, and immune support. Plus, while the core of the podcast will remain the same—offering valuable insights on health, wellness, and performance—patients will now have exclusive access to short videos that dive deeper into actionable takeaways from each episode.

This episode is another one that combines 2 things I love to talk about; mental health and sports. I'm joined by Brad Kennington, an Austin based licensed marriage and family therapist who specialises in working 2 patient groups; men with eating disorders, and athletes of both genders. If you listened to episode 25 with Kevin Sprouse from EF Pro Cycling, we touched on some of the mental health issues that impact athletes and male body image, so it's definitely a topic I was keen to dig into in more detail and Brad is exactly the right man for the job. We talk about the scale of eating disorders in men, what are some of the causes and warning signs a Fellowman might have disordered eating. We dig into his work specifically with athletes, how he uses his work in family systems to work with an athlete's extended support system of family and coaches. We round things out with a discussion on how to stay balanced as an athlete and focus on the fun and play that brings many of us to sports in the first place before things got serious with competition, tracking, data, and metrics of all sorts that can contribute to making the stressful job of being a competitive athlete more stressful than it needs to be.   Links to material referenced in the podcast: Austin Sports Behavioral Health. https://www.austinfitmagazine.com/May-2024/the-naked-truth-about-body-image/ https://www.austinfitmagazine.com/September-2024/food-fitness-sport/

In this episode I chat to a former colleague of mine at Slipstream Sports, the management company behind the professional cycling team that's been known over the years as Garmin, Cannondale and most recently EF Pro Cycling. Dr Kevin Sprouse is a rare breed of both medical MD and exercise physiologist and has worked closely with riders like David Millar, David Zabriske, Christian Vandevelde through to the current crop of EF riders like Lachlan Morton, Ben Healy, Rigoberto Uran and Richard Carapaz. Kevin also runs a private practice working with high performance athletes across a variety of sports and high level amateurs and weekend warriors who want the same level of medical care and performance support that the pro's get. We dig into how professional cycling has changed in the ten or so years he's been in the sport and the mental impact of so many variables in cycling being measurable these days, and related to this how pro cyclists and teams approach dealing with athlete mental health. From a physical health standpoint Kevin walks me through the types of things guys in their 40's should be getting checked out on a regular basis and we finish up tackling the tricky subject of testosterone, when to know you have a problem and what to do about it. Dr Kevin Sprouse Instagram Podium Sports Medicine (Kevin's Private Practice) Listen on iTunes here. Listen on PodBean. Listen on Spotify.

Learn how to enjoy your travels without sabotaging your health goals. Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse share their top nutrition tips and travel hacks for maintaining consistency on the road, so you can fully experience new places without derailing your fitness routine.Packing essential items like supplements, coffee equipment, and grocery items can help. But the most important tip might be the pre-packed "travel nutrition kit" to help you to stay on track. Tune in to learn how to make your own!Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Staying active and maintaining fitness is essential while on the go. But whether you're traveling for work or leisure, navigating your fitness routine can be a challenge. As part of The Travel Series, Patrick  Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse discuss the art of exercising and training while on the road.From strategic planning and adjusting expectations, to finding workout options in new environments, they share practical strategies for keeping your routine. Find out how outdoor activities like running can encourage you to explore new surroundings, and why it's important to prioritize enjoyment over rigid workout structures.Plus, insights on packing minimal equipment and scheduling travel weeks wisely to prevent overtraining. Tune in to hone your travel toolkit and stay in rhythm - no matter how you're training.Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Dr. Kevin Sprouse is the head of performance for the world tour team EF Education - Easy Post and is the host of the Podium podcast which provides sports science related information and how it's used in the highest level of pro cycling.

Traveling regularly for work or sport? Improving sleep quality and minimizing jet lag is a high priority to maintaining peak performance.Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down the basics: from optimizing the sleep environment while traveling, maintaining healthy routines on the road, to using supplements and fasting to better adjust to new time zones.Tune in to learn practical steps you can take to feel more rested, perform at a higher level, and get the most out of your time on the road.Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

 From Formula 1 drivers to NBA players, prioritizing and optimizing sleep quality is at the forefront of conversations about peak performance. Matteo Franceschetti, co-founder and CEO of Eight Sleep, joins Dr. Kevin Sprouse to explore cutting-edge sleep technology and its transformative impact on the lives of elite athletes and high achievers.Matteo shares his journey from growing up in Italy and playing sports, to co-founding Eight Sleep and pioneering temperature-controlled bed technology. Now, this innovative sleep technology is helping the world's top performers in sports and business get drastic improvements in their sleep.Kevin and Matteo share lesser-known strategies they use to optimize their routines that you can implement yourself to boost your performance. Plus, they discuss the groundbreaking potential of long-term sleep and biometric data collection, offering insights that could revolutionize health monitoring and preventative care.Eight Sleep Website | Instagram Matteo Franceschetti LinkedInPatrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Assembling a top-notch support team is essential for peak performance. Join hosts Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris as they break down the key components of a high-performance team, from coaches and physical therapists to doctors and mental performance coaches.At the heart of the discussion, Kevin and Patrick emphasize the importance of establishing relationships with healthcare professionals who understand the nuances of the athlete's sport, like proactive measures to streamline treatment and recovery processes. They encourage collaboration between team members, facilitated by annual meetings and consolidated medical records.Interested in building a robust support network that ensures you receive the comprehensive care you need to excel? Tune in to find out more.Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

How can you get the most out of your training without overcooking yourself before your big event? Robbie Ventura, former professional cyclist turned endurance coach, joins Dr. Kevin Sprouse to discuss the delicate balance of building fitness while maintaining freshness through periodization, intensity management, monitoring recovery, and developing a comprehensive race strategy.Robbie talks through how to integrate both subjective feedback and objective metrics - overall underscoring the value of human connection and support in coaching, a factor that artificial intelligence can't replicate. Kevin and Robbie highlight the significance of targeting the lactate threshold for optimal performance in endurance events. Plus, Robbie outlines a sample training plan and progression for an athlete preparing for a long-distance cycling event.Vision Quest Endurance Training Website Robbie Ventura on Instagram Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Is there an "ideal day" to set you up for peak performance? Hosts Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris outline a daily template focused on recovery, nutrition, workouts and lifestyle habits particularly tailored for professional athletes seeking those incremental gains.Learn why prioritizing our well-being can help us navigate through our day-to-day activities with greater vitality and satisfaction. Instead of feeling drained at work, there's a sense of energy and contentment. Living an active lifestyle is about finding joy in the process rather than fixating solely on achieving specific gains, allowing you to learn and grow - even when your routine gets thrown off.Patrick and Kevin share strategies to divide between endurance and strength/skill workouts in the morning, followed by targeted afternoon sessions for strength training and skill refinement, along with the importance of a variety of recovery modailties. Ultimately, creating an "ideal day" template provides a holistic approach to health and performance that leads to sustainable success, both on and off the field. Tune in to build a foundation for your own daily template!Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Looking for an evidence-based guide to macronutrients and other fueling best practices? You're in the right spot. Dr. Kevin Sprouse sat down with Dr. Trent Stellingwerff, the Director of Innovation and Research at the Canadian Sport Institute Pacific, to talk about optimal nutrition and physiology for athletes. They break down macronutrient intake, with a special focus on the pivotal role of protein and its timing, and how environmental stressors like altitude, heat, and cold intricately impact physiology, altering nutritional needs. Plus, is it overtraining syndrome or? Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (REDS)? Gaining insights into nuances between the two, diagnostics and effective treatments.This evidence-based conversation offers athletes a comprehensive guide to macronutrient best practices and invaluable considerations for training in different environmental conditions.Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Ever wondered why traditional New Year's resolutions might be holding you back? Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris challenge the status quo, offering a fresh perspective on goal-setting.Learn why the mantra of "move slow and long, fast and short, and lift heavy stuff" will elevate your overall health and fitness. The key? Crafting a well-rounded fitness routine that strikes the perfect balance between aerobic exercise, high-intensity interval training, and strength training.Plus, Kevin and Patrick share their recommendations for balancing moderate-paced aerobic activities, incorporating high-intensity interval workouts, and committing to strength training sessions. Let's start this year out strong!Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

As winter approaches, the risk of illnesses rises, fueled by increased indoor exposure and lowered immunity. Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse share practical strategies to optimize health during the challenging cold and flu season.Find out why good hygiene practices and nutritional choices play pivotal roles in prevention, along with the importance of staying hydrated and well-rested to support immune function. Vitamins can certainly keep us healthy - but Morris and Dr. Sprouse point out that supplements should complement, not replace, a well-rounded lifestyle.Dr. Aaron Baggish joins to the discussion to shift the focus to athletes and the fine line between pushing through illness and prioritizing rest. Tune in to learn when it's best for athletes to resume training post-illness, distinguishing symptoms above and below the neck. valuable guidance on the delicate balance between rest and training, dispelling myths around "pushing through" illness. Whether you're a seasoned athlete or someone navigating the challenges of the cold season, this episode is a must-listen for evidence-based strategies to optimize your health and athletic performance.

When it comes to optimizing daily routines, breathwork is key. As part of his philosophy and methodology, Mike Watts understands the importance of functional breathing and its impact of recovery and performance.In this episode, Mike sits down with Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse to dissect breathing patterns through the lens of performance. Watts shares game-changing insights into when and how to incorporate breathwork for maximum impact – whether it's pre-competition focus, post-training recovery, or enhancing sleep for optimal regeneration. Plus, learn about structuring a daily breathing routine by using tools like the box score, and how advanced techniques, like breath holds and oxygen saturation monitoring, can simulate altitude training and elevate performance levels.Find out more about Mike Watts Website | Instagram Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

From exercise and training, to sleep and nutrition, Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse have covered it all in the Foundation Series. In this episode, they answer burning questions from our listeners to fill in any gaps in your training. Patrick and Dr. Sprouse discuss fueling strategies tailored for endurance athletes, the intricacies of periodizing nutrition and weight throughout a training year, the science behind using melatonin to tackle shift work sleep issues. Plus, gain a deeper understanding of how standard blood test results should be interpreted for athletes. If you've been following the Foundations Series, this episode ties it all together! Tune in to learn actionable takeaways and practical suggestions for easy wins in each area.Ready to level up your performance nutrition? Check out Kodiak Cakes' new Peak Oatmeal. Head over to kodiakcakes.com/podium to get your bundle and reach your peak!Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

What role does nutrition play in creating a solid performance foundation? The answer might be more complex than you think. Hosts Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris tackle the essential metrics used in nutritional scoring, from calorie balance and protein intake to fiber consumption and Omega-3 levels assessed through the Omega-3 index test. They also shed light on body composition measured with DEXA scans, continuous glucose monitoring metrics, and fasting insulin levels. However, rather than fixating on micromanaging individual nutrients, Kevin and Patrick underscore the importance of adopting a holistic approach, emphasizing the significance of quality whole foods. Learn how small behavioral or intake changes in your nutrition can lead to significant long-term health improvements, all through the lens of their unique scoring system.Ready to level up your performance nutrition? Check out Kodiak Cakes' new protein waffles. Head over to kodiakcakes.com/podium to get your bundle and reach your peak!Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Can quality sleep and sleep hygiene be your competitive edge? Whether you are actively training or regularly exercising, sleep is a game changer. In this episode of the Foundations Series, Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse share essential insights tailored specifically for athletes on a mission to optimize their training. Join them as they dive deep into the world of sleep foundations, revealing the science-backed strategies that can supercharge your athletic performance. They discuss using sleep trackers to measure sleep duration and quality and setting a goal of 7.5 hours of sleep per night.Learn how to craft a pre-sleep ritual that primes you for success and why eliminating screens and blue light is a non-negotiable step in your training toolkit. Plus, find out about savvy alternatives to evening cocktails, introducing healthier ways to unwind that won't compromise your athletic goals.Check out our sponsor PERC Coffee | Use code PODIUM15 to receive 15% off your next orderPERC Coffee InstagramPatrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

I'm not scared of breaking bones or road rash anymore, but I am scared of brain damage, and I think more cyclists should understand why. In light of a very visible mistake in the European time trial championships, I saw an opportunity to share what I know, some of the risks of riding concussed, and what you should do if you think you might be at risk. Concussion risk and protocol has come a long way in all sports over the last few years. Big thanks to Dr. Sprouse for sharing.Dr. Sprouse on Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/drkevinsprouse/

As the seasons change and a busy year winds down, it's more important than ever to revisit the basics. Over the next several episodes, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris will explore three crucial foundations: Sleep and Recovery, Nutrition and Fueling, and Training and Activity. This series is a long-term resource that will provide comprehensive understanding, actionable takeaways, and practical suggestions for easy wins in each area. Plus, Kevin and Patrick share how they assess each foundation with patients, including the key metrics and habits they look for, and how foundations have impacted their own training. Have burning questions about sleep, nutrition, or training? Listener questions will be answered throughout the series, so get in touch! 

After retiring from pro cycling in 2017, Andrew Talansky moved into the realm of triathlons, attacking Ironman events with the same tenacity that marked his cycling career. Now, Andrew's athletic background informs his coaching style with Talansky Performance Group.In this conversation with host Dr. Kevin Sprouse, Andrew shares his experience racing in the iconic Tour de France, representing the United States on the international stage, and competing for Garmin–Cervélo on the esteemed UCI World Tour. From the peloton, to Ironmans, Andrew has realized the benefits of innovative technologies that make testing more accessible for recreational athletes, such as lactate threshold assessments. For Talansky, these are vital tools that can empower athletes and guide them towards sustainable performance improvements, all with the help of a knowledgeable coach.To learn more about Talansky Performance Group, check out their website or follow Andrew on Instagram.

World Tour, Grand Tours, and the Tour Divide - cyclist Alex Howes has done it all. He joins host Dr. Kevin Sprouse to break down his professional cycling career around the world, and his most recent adventure at the Tour Divide. Most recently, he completed the Tour Divide bikepacking race, spanning from Canada to Mexico in 19 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes.Hear what he learned riding 2692.9 Miles over 20 days straight, while navigating tendonitis, sleep deprivation, and hormonal changes. Alex shares how the Tour Divide compares to the Tour de France when looking at power metrics, the impressive endurance of the human body and mind when pushed, and the inspiration to pursue challenging goals.

As the Tour de France enters its second rest day, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris reflect on last week's injuries and the impact of extreme heat. From the challenges of maintaining a proper diet on the road to the intense focus on aerodynamics during the time trial, there's no shortage of factors that can make or break a cyclist's performance. Plus, hear how athletes can support the cardiac system as it works overtime to keep up with the demands of the three-week race.Hear from guests:Alex Howes, former EF Education-Easy Post 2x Tour de France riderRobby Ketchell, sports technology & data scientistDr. Aaron Baggish, cardiologistStay tuned for next week's coverage as the Tour de France continues. 

As the Tour de France reaches its midway point, the first rest day provides a much-needed break for the riders to recover and prepare for the next stretch of grueling stages. Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down the first 9 stages, major injuries to riders, massages, nutrition, and recovery. Hear from EF Education-Easy Post team members: James Shaw, Pro CyclistNate Wilson, Performance ManagerJonathan Vaughters (JV), CEOPaul Navin, Head of PerformancePlus, Dr. Cheri Mah, a sleep specialist, sheds light on the importance of sleep for elite athletes' performance, and how sleep plays a crucial role in recovery.Special thanks to our sponsor The Feed - go to www.thefeed.com/drkevin to receive 33% off your order of The Feed Formulas - Athlete Formula. Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

What does it take to get riders ready for Tour de France? Dr. Kevin Sprouse takes us inside pre-tour camp at 8,000 meters. Learn the altitude considerations, nutritional and fitness requirements, and strategy testing that goes into getting riders ready for those first crucial days of the race. Hear from EF Education-Easy Post team members:  - Jonathan Vaughters (JV) - CEO- Nate Wilson, Performance Manager- Paul Navin, Head of Performance- Will Girling, Head NutritionistPlus, Cardiologist Dr. Aaron Baggish gives insight into cardiac metrics that predispose a rider to success.Make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform for insider interviews and perspectives from Dr. Sprouse and other experts throughout the month of July. Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Not everyone has dozens of crewpeople available to deposit at each aid station along the course, so in this episode Hottie and Fatty give their advice for where to situate your crew if you have one person to help you. We also bring back Dr Kevin Sprouse for practical guidance on being fast by staying cool. Don't miss this episode!

It's Tour de France season, and for the first time in a decade, our host Dr. Kevin Sprouse is not on location - instead, he's dropping exclusive insights throughout the month of July right here on the Podium Podcast.Kicking off on July 1 with a conversation about all the work that goes into preparing for a 3-week race, we'll follow up with a new episode on each rest day, as well as a final pod when the riders reach Paris. Tune in to hear conversations with riders, team support staff, and other experts in sports science and cycling. We'll be covering everything from recovery strategies to preparation techniques, physiology, and the science behind preparing for a grand tour. Do you have any burning questions? Shoot us an email or a DM @thepodiumpodcast! And of course, follow us on social media for exclusive updates throughout the tour. Patrick Morris on Instagram | CoachingDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Injury is an inevitable aspect of any athlete's journey. But how does reaction impact recovery? In this episode of the Podium Podcast, hosts Patrick Morris and Dr. Kevin Sprouse discuss essential skills, mindsets, and approaches to handling setbacks and reframing injuries. Dr. Kevin Sprouse also highlights how he often sees athletes come back stronger after an injury or time away; he says the key factor is introspection and highlights the need to stay engaged and plugged in to avoid going dark mentally during the recovery period. Plus, Patrick gives insight into the trend of coaching for mental resilience. Whether you are heading into a training season, or dealing with recovery now, this conversation is a perfect addition to your recovery routine. Patrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Whether cycling, traveling, or camping, unexpected injuries and health snags could come your way. In this episode, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down the medical kit essentials for any adventure. Kevin shares what he travels with, whether alone, with his team, or venturing internationally - from trauma sheers to ketones - and recommends his favorite med kits. Patrick and Kevin break down the differences between car first aid kits, bike packing and camping kits, and even international trip kits. Plus, they discuss the benefits of taking first aid or wilderness first aid classes.To check out med kits and supplies, head to The Feed and be sure to look at the list Dr. Sproue mentioned in the show that he shares with patients and friends.   Patrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on InstagramThe Feed Instagram | Website- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Many endurance athletes have turned to wearables to monitor their sleep and recovery. In this episode we take a look at this growing trend with Dr Kevin Sprouse to find whether — and how — regular racers can use these devices to recover smarter and faster. We also take on a great listener question in our LFAQ segment: "What 5 things do you wish you had known the first time you raced the LT100MTB?" We think first-time (and second-time, and third-time, and tenth-time) racers will find a lot of good hard-earned wisdom in our answers.

Get ready to sweat it out on the Podium. Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris dive into the hot topic of heat training in endurance sports, discussing everything from training in it and adapting to it, to cooling off effectively.Once athletes consider individual health conditions prior to heat training, it is possible to build capacity in the heat within your training cycle. Dr. Sprouse and Patrick cover the technology, tools, and practices used in training, how best to monitor body temperature, and the benefits of passive heat exposure. Plus, hand cooling and the possible pitfalls of an ice bath.To learn more about Podium, visit www.podiumsportsmed.com.Patrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

There are dozens of tests available to help us better understand our own personal health and performance. With simple blood work, we can learn about everything from food sensitivity to biological age. In this episode, Dr. Kevin Sprouse and Patrick Morris break down what exactly each test is for, and how you can determine what's right for you. Plus, how can we decipher the data to inform nutrition, performance, and overall health?Is there a topic you'd like to hear Kevin and Patrick discuss? DM us with questions and you could win some Podium swag!Patrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Acclaimed WorldTour cycling nutritionist behind historic Olympic gold medals and multiple Grand Tour wins, and the author of the best-selling The Plant-Based Cyclist, Nigel Mitchell is paving the way for plant-based nutrition in world class sports.  He leverages his clinical background to create nutrition strategies that give athletes an edge in performance.In this episode, Nigel sits down with Dr. Kevin Sprouse for a deep dive into why gut health is a foundational component of sports nutrition. They talk through Nigel's discoveries about how macronutrients impact proper fueling, and the similarities in sailing to cycling with the needs of understanding nutrition.Nigel shares some protein advice for vegetarian and vegan athletes from GCN's The Cyclist's Cookbook: Food To Power Your Cycling Life. Plus, news about his new cookbook coming out soon.In This Episode:Nigel Mitchell on TwitterPatrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Aside from the technical aspects of performance data, the creative, human element has made Robby Ketchell the “secret weapon” on teams like Garmin-Sharp Pro Cycling, and Team Sky, who he supported through three Tour de France titles. From engineering technologies like the BAT box and Platypus, to playing a critical role in creating the formation for the INEOS 1:59 Performance Team, Robby has worked at the forefront of sports technology for a decade. In this episode, Robby sat down with our host Dr. Kevin Sprouse to share stories from the road. They discuss the impact that testing can have on athletes, how creativity can be hindered by data, and why we still have to “test outside the box”. Plus, learn about Robby's own marathon journey in honor of son Wyatt, who has Down Syndrome, and LuMind Research.In This Episode:Robby Ketchell InstagramPatrick Morris on InstagramDr. Sprouse on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co.

Kevin Sprouse: The Second Simplicity This episode of Cycling in Alignment is with Team EF Easy Post doctor Kevin Sprouse. He interviewed me on his podcast channel, The Podium. Kevin asks me some great questions about bike fitting, and even though Kevin is a doctor, and a way faster runner than I am, he has also done a bit of bike fitting. So it's more of a two-way conversation in some senses.    To wrap up the discussion, we discuss the contact points of your Victorian Era Contraption.    Thanks for listening. Please share this episode with someone if you think they will benefit from it.  Links: Link 1: https://www.podiumsportsmed.com/kevin-sprouse  

Dr. Kevin Sprouse keeps high-performance athletes at the top of the podium with training and recovery - but often, it's on the bus rides, in the hotel, and on the road where he learns the most about how people thrive in life. Trained and certified in both Sports and Emergency Medicine, Dr. Sprouse now serves as the Head of Medicine for EF Education-EasyPost Cycling. In his private practice, Podium Sports Medicine, he works with elite and professional athletes across numerous sports and disciplines, including professional cycling, triathlon, PGA golfers, NFL and MLB players, Olympic track and field athletes, and many more. He shares insights into recovery, training, and the future of performance, as well as how exercise, diet, and recovery affect the health and well-being of all active individuals at any level. Dr. Sprouse is also the host of The Podium Podcast where he dissects the principles of performance. You can visit www.podiumsportsmed.com to learn more about his practice. In This Episode: Kevin Sprouse Instagram  The Podium Instagram | Website | Podcast  Andrew Vontz LinkedIn Subscribe: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher

In this episode of the Team EF Coaching Performance podcast we sit down with Head of Medicine at EF Education-EasyPost, Dr Kevin Sprouse to talk common health issues that cyclists deal with, how they can be prevented and how athletes can become healthier all round.

It is Dr. Sprouse's turn in the hot seat this week on the pod! In this episode, Patrick interviews Kevin for a special "get to know Dr. Sprouse" episode. In this episode Patrick and Dr. Sprouse discuss: -Kevin's time in sports growing up -his journey through school and exploration of interests -why he chose a career in medicine -how he got started working in professional cycling with what is now the EF Education - Easy Post team-his favorite races to work -a bit about his current athletic endeavors -and much more!  In This Episode:Dr. Sprouse on InstagramPatrick Morris on Instagram- - - - - - - - -Check us out at: Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced & Edited by Palm Tree Pod Co. 

This week on the pod, we are rebroadcasting an episode from the Leadville 100 - Mile MTB Podcast, that featured Dr. Sprouse. From the podcast: How difficult can it be to drink? Judging by the number of hydration problems you see on race day, pretty darned difficult indeed. Dr. Kevin Sprouse joins us to talk about how to stay hydrated on race day. We also dig into the surprisingly challenging 12 miles between Pipeline and Twin Lakes Dam, and how to achieve your goal for this part of the race: to get to the base of Columbine fueled, fast, and ready to climb.Thanks again to our sponsor this season, Klean Athlete, for their support of the show.- - - - - - - - -In This Episode:Leadville 100 - Mile MTB PodcastS5E09: Pipeline - TLD and Hydration StrategiesDr. Sprouse on InstagramPatrick Morris on InstagramSeason Seven Sponsor: Klean AthleteCheck us out at: Podium Sports Medicine Website | InstagramSubscribe: Apple Podcast |  SpotifyShow Produced by Palm Tree Pod Co. 

This week we sit down with Jess Cerra and Sam Boardman to discuss the Last Best Ride in Montana. Held in Whitefish, MT in August, Last Best Ride boasts not only an amazing route, but also an amazing community. Episode Sponsor: The Feed Last Best Ride Website Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Last Best Ride [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast. We welcome Jess, Sarah and Sam Boardman onto the show to talk about Montana's last best ride. Many of you will probably recognize justice name as a gravel cyclist, often at the front end of the pack of these gravel races. She's also the founder of Jo J bar and currently as vice president of product and community development at both Joe, Jay and salt stick. She's also a member of the Pinarello Scuderia project. And a long time envy athlete. Sam Boardman, not as well known on the gravel cycling scene, but certainly a crusher out there on the road. He's a member of the powerful Legion squad and riding very well. Having one stage three of the Joe Martin stage race. Recently. The two partners have come together to create last best ride as a showcase for the love of their home in Whitefish, Montana. I hope you enjoy learning more about this event. It certainly sounds from all accounts that it's a great community event. And a spectacular ride. Before we jump in i need to thank this week sponsored the feed. For those of you who aren't familiar with the feed, the feed is the largest online marketplace for your sports nutrition, offering brands, you know, and love from scratch labs to cliff bar, to Martine plus their athlete customized supplements called feed formulas It's those feed formulas that I wanted to talk to you about and make sure you're familiar with feed formulas are personalized supplements for athletes developed in part with Dr. Kevin Sprouse from the EDF pro cycling team. Following the same protocols, the top athletes use. These are best in class, branded supplements, never generic. You get personalized recommendations based on your needs as an athlete. They're all packaged in a convenient daily pouch. So no more messy bottles keeping organized on the counter. You just grab a single pouch and it's got your fully customized order. Right. In one place, you can go on the website@thefeed.com slash the gravel ride and save 50% off your first order today. On that website for feed formula, you can walk through what are the individual supplements that you need. They've got a base formula, then they have multiple different add on packs based on your age, whether you're recovering, whether you're peaking for something. So it's a really great way to make sure you've got all the supplements you need and in an incredible easy way to consume them each day. You're not going to forget anything in a bottle somewhere on the other shelf. Everything's in those. Personalized formula packages in their daily pouch. You can get 50% off your first order, simply visit the feed.com/the gravel ride. Would that business behind us let's jump right in to my interview with just sarah and sam boardman Hey, Jess, Sam, welcome to the show. [00:03:18] Jess and Sam: Hey, Craig. Thanks for having us, Craig. It's good to be here. [00:03:22] Craig Dalton: Where am I speaking to you at right now? [00:03:25] Jess and Sam: We're in a beautiful and snowy, Whitefish, Montana. [00:03:30] Craig Dalton: It's hard to believe. I literally just had a pool party for my son this past weekend in California. And you're still getting snow over there. [00:03:37] Jess and Sam: Yeah, we little bit embarrassing, but Rose Grant is a professional mountain biker who also lives here. And we tried to do a ride on Friday and we had to get rescued and we know what we're doing. We failed the pool parties. [00:03:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah, not this time of year anyway, was the listener knows. We always like to start off the show by learning a little bit more about your background and how you came to gravel cycling. And then I'm excited to talk to both of you about last best ride and the big gravel events you've got coming up this summer. So just why don't we start off with you and just talk a little bit about your journey to cycling and how you found yourself riding off road. [00:04:16] Jess and Sam: Yeah. Well, I'm actually from Whitefish, Montana, which is something not a lot of people can say. And I growing up here. You have an affinity for the outdoors? No matter what I think most people who move here and raise families live here because they want to spend time outside. With that said cycling, wasn't a huge part of growing up here. I pretty much found cycling in grad school. I. I went to the university of Montana for my undergrad, studied exercise physiology, and then moved to San Diego to pursue my master's in the same field. And it was when I was studying elite athletes in the lab and actually bringing cyclists into our exercise physiology lab. That my curiosity was peaked and I ended up randomly doing a VO two max test on a lab bike and finding that I had the engine, I just needed a bike and all the things that go with it. So one of my professors was I'm on a mountain bike team and she helped me get started. And I started on that team and I raced Xterra off-road triathlon and mountain bikes for a long time. And then I. Professional road racing career after that. And instead of officially retiring, I say that I evolved into gravel cycling because I think gravel is that area where you, you can be a pro without having to only be competitive, you can bring value to the sport in other ways. [00:05:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. So unpacking that, I'll just a tiny bit first off for the uninitiated. Explain exactly where Whitefish is located in, in Montana. [00:06:04] Jess and Sam: So it's up in the Northwestern corner. It's tucked by Flathead lake in glacier national park, which is a big draw to the area. We're about 30 minutes away from glacier. What like nine 90 minutes on the bike. If I'm drafting behind Sam. [00:06:20] Craig Dalton: and then it's pretty close to the Canadian border. Is that right? [00:06:24] Jess and Sam: Yeah. like an hour from the Canadian border. [00:06:27] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Amazing. And when you were growing up, were you doing other endurance athletics, like running or skiing? [00:06:33] Jess and Sam: Yeah. So we, you know, and we'll touch on this. When we talk about the mission for the last best ride I grew up in, you know, a pretty humble family, pretty low income. So access to. A lot of sports like cycling or skiing? It was a little tricky for us. There's a ton of community support here. There's actually grants for kids to participate. So I was able to do some Nordic skiing that way. We have an outdoor figure skating rink, and I did some figure skating with some of those grants. But it's funny because looking back, I was always drawn to endurance. I just didn't have an example of what endurance as a sport or as a career would be like something like professional cycling. And you think that I would, and in Montana that, that I wouldn't have that, but it just really wasn't something that was part of our daily life. You know, my parents were focused on working and I grew up with a single mom, so. That was challenging, but she did her best to get us outside. We did a lot of hiking and exploring here. But Yeah. [00:07:41] Craig Dalton: Amazing. And then, so when you went to college and you discovered the bike for the first time, as you started to become involved in. That the team aspects of road racing, was it immediately apparent that you had an engine that was better suited for the longer, more endurance stuff versus sprint site? Tough. [00:07:58] Jess and Sam: Yes. It's funny how you, you learn that. I actually was a really strong climber and I think that I began goes back to. The VO two max and lung capacity, but definitely I like to suffer for a really long time, rather than compacting that all into five seconds. So those were the systems that I trained. [00:08:22] Craig Dalton: yeah, that makes sense. And then Sam, how about you? Where, where did you grow up and what was your journey to the bike? Like. [00:08:28] Jess and Sam: Well, I'll tell you that, but first I want to add something to justice story that she did not add, which I think is the funniest part, the random aspect of her introduction to cycling. Wasn't so random. It was. Part of the protocol for her research was taking the temperatures of the athletes, who she was studying. And to do that back in the day when she was doing it, the only way to do that was through a rectal thermometer. [00:08:56] Craig Dalton: I thought that's where we're going. [00:08:57] Jess and Sam: So the people who were doing the studies, they were always super jilted because they would always come in according to way adjust all that. And they would say, well, have you done the test? And eventually she just wanted to say like, but yes, I've done the past. And that's how she actually took the test and how she was discovered by her superior supervisors as a very gifted endurance athletes. So people should know it was not so much random. Low grade bullying and yeah, [00:09:27] Craig Dalton: I love it. [00:09:28] Jess and Sam: it's I don't know. I just, I liked that because it's, it's similar to this rumor and legend. I heard about Alex House where as an endurance athlete, everyone who he talked to, who he told I'm a professional cyclist and he would tell them like ever in the tour de France and stuff like that, they'd be like, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. Have you run a marathon? He always was just saying, no, I've never run a marathon. And then apparently, and this is what legend has at one day. You just woke up and was like, gosh, darn it. I just need to run a marathon so that when people ask me that from now on, I can say, yes, we did. And he like broke all his toes or something like that. And just bloody wind speed. But point is, it's an important detail. [00:10:08] Craig Dalton: yeah. Now he's a reasonable athlete, according to the best people out there. [00:10:12] Jess and Sam: yeah. With a rectal thermometer. No, [00:10:17] Craig Dalton: Well, you never know. [00:10:19] Jess and Sam: my my introduction to the bike was a lot less invasive, I guess you could say. It w it was brought on mostly as a way to fill the void that I had in my life when I left running. And I say left running as if it was like something that I chose to retire from it wasn't, it was just my life in high school. And when I, when I discovered it freshman year, I, you know, fell in love with it. And it just was everything that I wanted to do. And when it came time to apply to college, I realized like the only schools that I wanted to go to having come from very small private school and wanting to broaden my horizons, as far as my educational experience goes, were large state schools with very, very competitive running programs where, I mean, they had these kinds of schools were pumping out national champions left and right. And if I wanted to be part of, you know, the, a squad, the division one squad, I would either have. Scrap my way onto the team so that I could just race be races or I would have to run at the club level and doing either of those didn't really fit in my competitive zeal that I accrued during my high school life and running. And I knew that it would also probably destroy the love that I had for the sport, because it would probably just Jade me to the point where I didn't want to do it anymore. So I decided to just try something new, find something. In the meantime, the summer between my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college, which having gone to UCLA who were on the quarter system and they notoriously start very late. I had five months off between when I ended my senior year and when I started college and it wasn't because I took a semester off or anything, it's just, that's how the calendar works. So I had a lot of free time to figure out what I wanted to do. In the meantime, I was working as a janitor in my high school, and my parents had gotten me a fixed gear bike to commute, to work with. And I just fell in love with scooting around in the city. And just finding the bike scene in Washington, DC, where I grew up and discovering the bike and that kind of communal aspect. And then finally come August. Of 2014. I decided I wanted to get a road bike because as is the natural progression for most people that I've talked to in cycling, you wanted to be able to go further and go faster and actually be able to change gears and not blow your knees out of their sockets. So I use the money that I've gotten working as a janitor and bought my first road bike, went to California, found the club team and just became obsessed. Race the club scene for three years when I was in college, until I got onto a domestically amateur team and then started branching out into more competitive national events. And then I signed my first pro contract in 29. [00:13:14] Craig Dalton: Amazing and shout out to rock Creek park in DC for a little road riding. [00:13:20] Jess and Sam: I grew up. Yeah. Rock Creek park. It's I mean, it's funny. It's like I go back there very frequently and I basically rediscover or discover for the first time, in some cases, parts of the cycling scene, which is super exciting to me because having grown up there. You know, you think, oh, I know everything about it, but it's actually really cool to be able to go to your hometown and find something absolutely new to it in the sphere of what you love to do. And that it's actually robbery park is one of my favorite places to ride it's right by my house. [00:13:52] Craig Dalton: Yeah, quick aside. I, I went to school at American university in Washington, DC and discovered mountain biking and amazing. So I discovered a mountain biking in DC, which is very sort of counterintuitive, right? Like where would you find green space to mountain bike in DC? But as you probably know, there's all these sort of interconnected green spaces in Washington, DC, that once you sorta tipped off to them, you sort of do a little section. They're all short of obviously. You're a little section, then you go around next to some apartment buildings you find another section to do, and you can do these neat hour long loops in the city. [00:14:25] Jess and Sam: Oh, my gosh. I mean, I. So much credit I have to give to my high school running coach to who instilled in me the kind of sense of adventure. And you could call it, I call it organic navigation, but most people know that as being bad at directions where it's basically kind of just, you know, where to go when the road looks a certain way, or you kind of just decide, you're going to feel out your route. And he was the one who introduced me to just looping together. Different routes. So, I mean, like you're saying, we would start in Tenleytown, we'd go download the Archibald trail through Georgetown we'd loop through all these little random back trails that kind of nestled themselves in the woods through spring valley and all these areas where it's just, you know, he taught me how to just have fun exploring during your training [00:15:16] Craig Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. And another shout out to the CNO canal, many miles on that canal [00:15:21] Jess and Sam: many miles on the CNO canal. [00:15:24] Craig Dalton: So great. So you you've, you're racing professionally on the road. How did you find yourself in Montana? [00:15:30] Jess and Sam: So just being from here ever since we met, had always talked about wanting to go back. I mean, I think she can tell you that she never really clicked with big city living or at least like being in larger urban areas with. It never really bothered me. Having grew up in Washington, DC, moved to LA for college and then moved to San Diego. It was funny where we were living in north county, San Diego Encinitas. That was pretty sleepy beach town in my mind. And just at the time it was living in Oceanside two towns up, which again, very small town in my mind, but there's still towns of 150, 200,000 people. And it's all part of one big conglomerate to call it, you know, its own town. It's kind of ridiculous because similar to LA it's just, you know, San Diego county LA become just massive giant cities with little pockets of populations here and there. But eventually when it came time for us to leave where we were living in Encinitas, she decided she wanted to move back to wipe this. And she said, if you want to be with me, I'm going to be up there. So ball's in your court. So the decision was pretty easy. So now I'm here. But Yeah. honestly, I've, I think I've taken to it pretty amazingly. I mean, I love the writing that we have up here. I love the community that's up here and it's just a very welcoming place that. Just champions, outdoor living in every form that you can imagine. And I think what was really important to me as someone whose life has revolved around road racing for the past seven years, it was I think, a big step for me to try and find a place that I could visualize myself living, where I could have fun where the road bike wasn't the apps. Epicenter of my existence. And you know, this past winter, I learned how to ski for the first time and my knees are still intact. So that was sweet. And I learned that I loved it. And that really gave me a lot of, I mean, hope is a weird word to use, but it did where it's like, you know, there's this kind of panic that sets in sometimes when you think about, oh my gosh, what am I going to do when I leave competitive road cycling? I mean, there's just so much to try out here. There's so much to do and so much stuff to have fun with that. You know, I'm really glad that I was brought up here because now having lived here for a couple months now, it's just, it's hard to imagine being back in a big city, it really is, which is very odd. I always thought I wanted to stay in a big city. [00:18:13] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's interesting. And for listeners who live in California, California, is this weird place, right? You can ride your bike all year round, very little interruption. In fact, it's hard to take a step back and think about having a quote unquote off season. Whereas most places elsewhere in the country, in the world, you have snow, you have real winter and you're forced to do other things. And I remember growing up on the east coast for me, that was sort of a healthy. Sort of cycle of the year, right? Because you just sort of naturally transitioned to something else, whatever it was in the winter, rather than just riding your bike hard core all year round. [00:18:50] Jess and Sam: oh yeah. I was pretty nervous even. Yeah. Being the one that pushed us to move here and what our long rides every weekend are so important to me. And to your point, I feel healthier. I feel it is so nice to just take a break from those things, because now I'm looking forward to riding more than usual, but it also is weird to not be so fit and may [00:19:16] Craig Dalton: Yeah, [00:19:16] Jess and Sam: I'm used to being so, so come may. Not [00:19:21] Craig Dalton: not quite there yet this year. [00:19:23] Jess and Sam: quite there yet. It's also like your life has changed too. Yeah. And my life revolves more around work. I mean, so the thing that I discovered is. To justice credit. Like she's just, she's training differently now because she's working multiple jobs, basically with organizing the race and her own full-time job and balancing training competing. But to her credit, if she wanted to be fit and trained, she could. And that's just the thing about being in an environment that's not California, which is perfect weather all the time. He kind of just ended up getting creative. Like you, you know, during the winter, Jess was doing a bunch of. Yoga yoga sculpt doing some like gym workouts at home. She was doing endurance hit workouts at home. Yeah. You did a ski race. I mean, it's just, I honestly think that it, you know, for me and I re I reckon for justice as well. It actually was very refreshing to be in an environment where bike racing and bike riding. Wasn't the only way that you could get fit. And it actually felt good. Going into the season, having not just written my bike and myself into oblivion, because it actually got me excited for the season, whereas an excited to ride my bike more like justice thing. Whereas I found in, you know, past years, sometimes you get to the end of your base training phase, which for most Californians, I mean their base training starts in October, November, and it goes all the way until January, February, where racing starts pretty early relative to. Season or re rest of the country. And by the time you get to that first race of the season, you're just like, oh my God, I can't stand training anymore. I need to race. I need a race. Whereas this year, I mean, I took some time off and then learned how to ski. And that was like the first couple of weeks of off season activities was just learning how to do the activity and then doing those activities and actually staying fit in a relatively, you know, fun way that was new. And then by the time I got. To the point where I was supposed to raise, I was actually really excited to just like be on my bike, not just race, but like be outside in the warm weather where my knees can be exposed to the elements. [00:21:36] Craig Dalton: Being part of the Legion program. Did you find yourself, had you hit the fitness you needed to hit for some of the late the races they had you slated to. [00:21:43] Jess and Sam: I think it was in, I would say probably not the fitness that I would have wanted, but again, it was. I don't think I was actually unfit for the races. I just don't think I was fit in the way that a lot of the people who I was racing and surfing and in the sense of like racing fitness, because a lot of the riders coming from warmer climates who are doing those early season races, that the program that Legion does in California, they've been racing since January. And I literally just flown from a blizzard. And we'd seen a lot of snow during the winter. And I was mostly doing like base training work starting in December, going through February to one of my first race in Arizona was, and it's not that I felt, felt unfit to the point where I couldn't finish the races. It's just like That top end wasn't there. But now, you know, having had a bunch of races under my belt and we're going into the next block, which is like the key block, the target block of the year from. I do feel a lot fitter and I don't feel the same level of burnt out as I would normally at this time of the year where I'm just like praying hands and knees for break after the blast block. So I actually, I did feel less fit, but, you know, I felt like I was excited to raise again. [00:23:03] Craig Dalton: That makes sense. And then just for you racing gravel this year, you're part of a program. Do you want to talk about that team you're involved in and what your goals are for the year? [00:23:15] Jess and Sam: Yeah. So the scooter Rhea Pinarello program is sort of a multi-faceted program that emphasizes what I was mentioning earlier that there's unique skillsets and unique people. They deserve to have an opportunity in the cycling world. And so. The idea of our marketing director of Pinarello is Kim Rogers. And she's just an incredibly hard worker. I have a lot of respect for what she's accomplished with the program in the first year, and then leading into this year. But we're a group of athletes that range from competitors to adventure, people, to community leaders. So my role is a community leader. And basically what that means is I'm none of my partners and of my sponsors expect me to be winning races are on the podium. And that's something that I've communicated to everyone and they they've accepted, you know, I've had my time for that. Being a trained really hard and, and won races and had the injuries and then the whole deal. And now it's what I really want to focus on is helping more people get into the sport, making it a welcoming place where you know, all types of people are accepted and have opportunities and just being able to. Represent amazing brands like Pinarello at large events is, is super important. And it's like, because I don't care about a result, I'm going out there to have fun. And the pressure isn't there, you open yourself up to creating those experiences with people. Like I'm constantly on my feet in the sun before I do an event and talking and hanging out and. My, the energy bar company that I founded, Joe Davis. Is now a part of a larger suite of sports, nutrition brands, and my company kind of mirrors. We go to the events that mere my schedule with Pinarello and support. So I'm also doing that on the side. And it's just, it's super fun to. To know that we're in a place now where the emphasis isn't always on results. I mean, that's amazing. It's super cool. I still look up to the women who are crushing it right now. And I think that is great, but it's also really more relatable to a lot of people who have families and work and see like they do, they do have a place and you don't have to come to an event to. You can come to just ride your bike and meet people and you'll be accepted and you're not doing anything weird. You're probably doing what 95% of the other people around you are doing. So Yeah. it's, it's, it's a good, it's a good, a good team for me, for sure. [00:26:12] Craig Dalton: Awesome. Let's take a two minute detour and hear about your company. What can you tell us about like the judge, a bar philosophy and the types of products that you make? [00:26:21] Jess and Sam: Yeah. So this is also a concept that after grad school, I decided not to do a PhD, which was the track that I was on. Like from high school, I knew I wanted to do this path and I was really into research and I diverted to pursue cycling and I. I had met a nutritionist who I worked with and she was a private chef. And so I started helping her kind of as her assistant at first. And then I ended up taking over her clientele when she moved away. So that's kind of the piece about nutrition and being in the food world, but is important to the story. So I had this background in exercise physiology. I S I started this private chef company. I started catering events and I really focused on just fresh food healthy food that people who wanted to be active, wanting to eat. And I just took the guesswork out of it. So, at the time, this wasn't in 2008. 10 ish. There was really no good energy bars out there. We weren't in this food revolution where there's like all of this amazing all these amazing choices when you walk into whole foods or whatever. And so I thought I wanted to create something that was delicious, but tastes in homemade. My favorite things to eat are. Cookies or baked goods or stopping by the bakery before I ride. I also wanted it to make sense from a macronutrient standpoint. And so I kind of flip the script on how bars were made. They were always really carb-heavy before which we need, but I also wanted to add in more fat for. Those zones that are more endurance and I wanted it to be something that was digestible and you could eat, eat a lot of it. At the time I had a coach who had Lyme's disease and was on a gluten-free diet. And so I thought, well, I'll try making it gluten-free little. Did I know that that segment was going to blow up in the future and become so. So I created this bar and it was just kind of a rinky-dink operation out of my kitchen at first. And I actually, some of my private chef clients helped me move into my first co-packer and I was in a small co-packer down in San Diego and just grew the brand grassroots style within the cycling and trapline community. And a big, the big wind for Joe Jay was when we got into REI. And I think we were accepted at the end of 2018, and that really helped our, the brand breech our people in the outdoor space and in let's see. I think of October of 2019, I was approached by this company called elite active nutrition is the name now a L E T E, which means all athletes, not elite athletes. And they reached out to me. They had started this platform by acquiring electrolyte brand called salt stick. Really huge in the triathlon world. I'm hopefully helping it become huge in the travel world. So they reached out to me about acquiring Joe, Jay, and it was a great fit because it allowed me at this point, I was caught up in all of the logistics of running a business. And also the logistics of being the hamster in the wheel of cashflow when you own a small business. And this allowed me to step away from that. And I'll admit, I don't love entrepreneurship from that standpoint. I just am wired in a way where I want to help other people and I want to do the right thing. And I want a brand that does those things. And I really don't like the other part of it. This company enabled me to do that. They said, we're going to take all of that. We have a team in place already, and then you can create your role in the company and you will come on and you will do that role. And so it was a perfect fit. They didn't want to take the bar and change it and, you know, cut the margins and do, do all the things that sometimes larger companies want to do. So I created my role of VP, of product and community developers. Enjoying this team, we've now also acquired bonk breaker and we'll be acquiring two other brands. And yeah, so that's what I do. I work on product development. We're developing some new flavors right now. And then I also, like I mentioned, I get to be out in the community and we, I get to lead all of our brands and make sure that we. Have at our heart and soul, we are an accepting platform. We have a diverse group of athletes and ambassadors. We're inclusive. We're thinking about doing the right things for the environment in sport and all of those, you know, amazing things that I like to focus on. So, sorry, that was not two minutes. That was like five. [00:31:32] Craig Dalton: That's okay. Now I appreciate the entrepreneurial journey and that's a great outcome and amazing that the vision can now be propelled forward, you know, with the distribution that maybe you weren't going to be able to achieve this company can get it out there even further and allow you to focus on what you love. [00:31:49] Jess and Sam: Exactly. [00:31:50] Craig Dalton: fabulous and allow you more time to start things like gravel races in your hometown. [00:31:55] Jess and Sam: Yes. [00:31:56] Craig Dalton: So let's talk about that. I mean, I love talking to event organizers because I think it's such a, such an art behind creating an experience that is native to the community that you're in and showcases everything you want to showcase. I feel like it's like a love letter to your commute. When you design a gravel course, and I love designing courses here in Moran. So I'd love to hear about the inspiration for last best ride. And then let's talk about the details. Let's get the listener stoke to put it on their calendar. [00:32:25] Jess and Sam: Okay. Well, I think to back up a little bit, when we first started spending a lot of time here was in 2020 during the Panda. When we realized we weren't going to be doing any racing. And we kind of did the thing that everyone was doing. We scattered to a smaller place only. This is my home. And we also bought a piece of land at that time, which turned out to be total baller, move that we had no idea. This is going to be like the best decision of our lives, but I think. We, so to Sam's point about being adventurous, he started exploring and making these gravel routes for us, these crazy off-road routes. And he didn't even have a gravel bike yet, but he was taking me places that I had never been after growing up here. And remember the first gravel. Right. We did. You did it on your road bike, that old KTM bike and yeah. We ride this route consistently now. And we're like, how on earth did you write this on your road bike? Like we it's like when you don't know any better, when you first start exploring off road, like you might throw some wider tires on your road bike. And you're like, oh yeah, like, so we were kind of exploring and realizing that this place is prime for a gravel event. I had also. My first event, the season before was our friend, Kevin Laura King run an event in Vermont called rooted Vermont, and the little town there from Richmond reminded me of Montana and attending that. Having such an amazing time. And knowing that gravel was a place that I wanted to be, I thought that they're just nailing it. Like how that the community embraces this event. It's super low key. They make a whole weekend out of it. And I told Laura, I said, my wife is really needs an event like that. It's so incredibly beautiful here. So. I think we started exploring more and then I can pretty sure I made you ride like an old steel, gravel bike of mine. Remember that? And it was like two sizes too small for you. And then he ordered a gravel bike and we just like, I don't know how we went from. Two rides to like the next day we were at the forest service office with our masks on like knocking on the door where it's like appointments only. And we were like, hi, we would like to put on an event. They were like, why we're in the middle of a pandemic? Why would you, when you talking about, and we're like, no, it's definitely the, the pandemic won't be here next year. Like we're looking at next year. Little did we know that it was going to be an extended, extended pandemic, but luckily we picked August as our month because you're pretty much guaranteed. My dad will tell anyone that comes here, that he's seen snow here every month of the year. But if you're going to pick one month, August is a pretty safe bet. So we picked August for our race and that's Yeah. that's kind of how we started. [00:35:30] Craig Dalton: and was the community embracing of it. Like I know a lot of rural communities when they hear about the prospect of a thousand athletes coming to town and booking hotel rooms and accommodations and food and all that stuff. They're super excited to get behind it. Were you experiencing that in Whitefish? [00:35:48] Jess and Sam: Well, there's been a little bit of a shift here and Whitefish? I believe this was the fastest growing town in the country during COVID. Which is why, when I mentioned us buying this little plot of land we didn't know that was going to happen. I had a, I had a theory. I was kind of actually obsessed about real estate at the time. I had a theory that something was going to happen because I remember what happened during the last recession. And. So to your question, it's a little different here. It there's a lot of people that come here in the summer in glacier park has gotten so overrun that they now actually have a ticketed entry system. So it was sort of a balance of knowing that we already have a lot of tourism and this isn't a town that needs that tourism boost to survive. So we wanted to make sure that this event was going to be a net positive for the community and that our community was going to feel supported. And that, again, that it's a positive. And so that's one of the reasons why we wanted it to focus around our scholarship. [00:36:56] Craig Dalton: And do you want to describe what that scholarship looks like? [00:36:59] Jess and Sam: Yeah. So, as I had mentioned before, growing up here fairly low income I did not have a college fund growing up and I had a guidance counselor in high school. My sophomore year that came to our classroom talking about college. And when I found out that it costs money to go to college, I had a little meltdown. My dad actually took me to her office and we spent three years together working on scholarship applications and I won. So many local scholarships along with Pell grant and federal aid, but I didn't have any student loans for undergrad and she just had this profound impact on my life. Mostly just because she believed in me and she didn't hold my hand by any means, like she made me do the work, but I've always had this dream of creating a scholarship and. Giving that back to the community and finding young women who deserve to be uplifted and supported financially. So we figured this rate. Was a good way to accomplish that goal. We both have our careers. We felt like it'd be a perfect way to invest back into the young people and the community. And I full heartedly believe that one of the best ways to get young people into cycling is to equip them with the ability to go out and. Either learn a trade or get an education and become, you know, get themselves into a place where financially they can afford a bike and they can enjoy that and incorporate into their life. And they're empowered to do that. So it kind of like. What does the bike race have to deal with the scholarship, but it, as Sam put it, he wrote in the tech guy, like simply by attending this race, you are bettering the lives of young women in our area who are, you know, have financial need, but also have academic merit. So. [00:39:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah, what's interesting as well is I think just the sh. Participation levels in the community, people who aren't cyclists are going to notice that it's happening and they're going to see and hear that, oh, a scholarship comes out of that. So maybe it even helps some of these younger women become aware that scholarships are available and that a path towards a higher education as possible with these, you know, following the same path that you did. [00:39:31] Jess and Sam: That's so interesting that you just brought that up because I learned fairly recently that one of our recipients from last year, her friend read about the scholarship and. Her friend did not have financial need, but she, she drugged this young woman down to the counselor's office and said, you have to apply for this. And she didn't think that she even deserved or knew that she can have that opportunity. And then she ended up being our top recipient. So we were really good point. And that it's like something that I, I want these young women to know that like, you. You deserve a chance and like at least apply for it this year. We have five recipients. So, and I'm about to go to the scholarship nights at the schools and the next couple of weeks, and actually give the awards out. But we also have seven land permits. So it's pretty, it's an arduous task with the land permits. And I know that. you know, the people who are at the head of these entities, it does mean something to them that, you know, it's not just a bike race. It's for-profit [00:40:44] Craig Dalton: let's talk about the courses. It sounds like you're going through a lot of different types of properties. So what's the gravel of riding like in Whitefish. [00:40:51] Jess and Sam: Awesome. I would say it varies from. You know, depending on where you are in the valley, where we live, it can vary from champagne, gravel to straight up single track the way that we like to ride, but the courses themselves traverse through a, I would say pretty wide variety of surfaces. So. Both routes. We'll take a route that heads east out of town. And you will go up through some logging roads that are owned by a local lumber and logging company that who are wonderful. They're wonderfully supportive of the event. And that will then transition you into forest lands, which is where most of I would argue what 90% of our race takes place on 80 to 90% of our race. And once again, the forest service are wonderfully supportive of the event as well. And we appreciate everything that they've done to help us. They were actually the ones who were. One of the most ardent supporters in the beginning when we were trying to design routes that were cool and they were the ones encouraging us saying, this is exactly what we love public lands to be used for. Is this kind of recreation that is based in exploration and, you know, cyclo eco-friendly tourism. So then we'll try the routes then traverse through forest lands that. Pretty much wind your way through a bunch of the mountain roads up north of town. So Northeast of town, they will then bring the riders back to a dividing point where there will be an aid station where the short route will then take some more of those forest service road. Through some single track trails onto mountain property. So we have a local ski resort, big mountain ski resort that has also helped us immensely in providing sections of their property for our route. And that will basically direct riders up to a section of the mountain road where they can then explore some of the single track there and then head back down. Into town, the long route diverts back to where close to where we started. And then they start heading up north along what is called lake shore drive, which is a beautiful picture of. Road exactly, as it says, which borders the east side of a Whitefish lake, and you make your way north along this road, and it will pretty much on align, transition to gravel, depending on the time of year, it can be either champagne, gravel. It can be kind of rutted if it's rained or it can be straight up washboard. So you get, you don't know what you're going to get. Typically. It's fairly dry. And it seemed a lot of traffic because that is nearing the end of huckleberry picking season. So a lot of locals will go out that road to some of the secret huckleberries spots that I don't even know where they are. Cause they're so secret. But so it can typically be a little washboard, but that we'll head north all the way to a road called Warner peak. There is some. Road name and technically most of the roads around here are called forest road or forest service road, big old number. And I should know this because I designed the route, but I get confused and all the digits, but it's commonly in locally known as water peak. So you bank, you take a right and you start climbing it's about a six mile climb from the turnoff of what is upper Whitefish lake. To the top of Warner peak, and that basically deposits you onto this Ridge line that overlooks the entirety of the valley. it. truly is on a clear day, a stunning picture SVU and that surface transitions from the kind of predictable, typical valley country champagne S gravel road to pretty Rocky technical climbing. And the gradients aren't, hellaciously steep in that section, but they are steep enough where you're going to be going slow and you're going to be needing to have some technical savvy to be able to navigate around some of the bigger rocks and sections. And there are also some drainage pipes that are late. The road to help ease snow melt washing away some of the roads. So if you can practice a little like bunny hopping or lifting your front wheel and back wheel whilst climbing it's summarized. It's one of the hardest climbs. I think you'll find in a gravel race, the hardest climb you'll find in a gravel race comes shortly thereafter. You descend down the Ridge line that takes you to the backside of the be of big mountain ski resort. Now the course then takes riders to the top of big mountain, the absolute peak where the summit house is. And this is where the ski resort basically has all their chairs going to the very top to get to that. You go up what we have called the. The mountain goats scramble this big horn sheep, big horn sheep scramble. And basically we discovered this ride on, or this way up on a ride that we did early in 2020 when we were kind of just moseying our way to the backside. And we found ourselves kind of running along the Ridge line of all of the ski slopes. And we're kind of looking up and seeing all the ski runs and we finally made our way to a service. And we said, Ooh, let's turn up. That, how high can we go? And apparently you can go the highest you physically can, but to do so you have to go up. What is essentially a wall of roughly 35% average gradient for 300 meters, the longest 300 meters of your life. [00:46:40] Craig Dalton: It is an actually rideable. [00:46:42] Jess and Sam: So there are two people that we know who have written it on a bike. One of which is me. The other is one Caleb Swartz, who is a Marian university alum who wrote for the bear dev team. And recently completed. Really Stellar's a cyclocross campaign is a private two rider who lives in Missoula. He trains a lot with Howard rots and some of the local Missoula hitters. He rode his XC bike at the race and he was the only person in the race to ride up the entire scramble without take unclipping, walking his bike. [00:47:18] Craig Dalton: All right. There's a big challenge for you people out there. [00:47:20] Jess and Sam: Yeah. So you get to the summit house, there's a feed station. Then you descend down another climb. It's called Taylor Creek, which takes you back to upper Whitefish lake road. And you go back the way you came out back into town. [00:47:35] Craig Dalton: right on. So tell me the distances of the short course in the long course. [00:47:39] Jess and Sam: So the short course. is 47 miles with about. 4,500 feet of climbing in the long course is 90 miles with that 8,200 feet of climbing. We might have to make a couple tweaks. We know we have to make a couple tweaks. So the short course this year, because of some logging that's happened, but it will be. Similar within that range. So it's a good, it's a, it's a good distance. Like the pro the pro dudes last year, Ted and Howard, and a local guy named Andrew, Andrew, Frank, they, we could not believe this. They finished. And just under five hours, we, we were expecting like a five 15, but I would say on average the short course would take you. Around three and a half to four and a half hours in the long course would be close to. I don't know, six, six to seven hours if you're relatively cruising, but it can be a huge range because it's just such a, a hard course. So the benefit of the the three finishers we've mentioned in there super fast time, the road Taylor Creek, the descent that you take back down into town had just been basically flattened by logging equipment. So it wasn't really the gravel that Jess and I had previewed throughout the summer, but it actually was so packed down because of all, it was basically concrete is what it was. And I remember I previewed it actually with Ted on Thursday, before. And we were descending it. And we were looking at each other and saying like, people are going to rip this. Cause I mean, you didn't even have to worry about dodging any kind of rocks or ruts or anything. It literally was just smooth pavement made out of mud that had been flat. And it rained also, which well, we, we say our race is predicated on the views because. I don't think that as Sam went through this course, like you cannot describe these views. They are jaw dropping. When we ride here, we're riding in all the time and it never looks the same. It's just so amazing. But then it poured rain, which cleared out all of the wildfires. So that was the benefit and it was very foggy in the morning of the race and people still that it was like a, just like I said, a different kind of view, but that we, I was like calling the medical volunteers. Like we need to put someone, we need like two people going on that descent, like to medical stations, because I was so afraid that someone was going to be doing like 60 miles an hour down this gravel descent and just fly off into space, but it turned out. We had, I think one of the most advanced medical plans, the forest service actually asked us if they could keep the template of it to use as an example. And we treated a bee sting and that was it. So the other side, Yeah. When you become an event director, you're pretty much just stressed out the whole time about someone getting hurt or something going wrong. [00:50:49] Craig Dalton: a hundred percent. So it sounds like with a fairly rowdy course, you need some pretty capable tires. Is there a size that you recommend? [00:50:57] Jess and Sam: I mean, I am of the camp of you should run as, as big as you can. It's a, it's a big debate for us on our course, because we know again, given the conditions of really the back sections of the course and the climb, like. I think the debate is now whether a hard tail mountain bike is the fastest bike for our course, but there, there are a lot of sections where having a pretty rigid snappy gravel. Where you can just easily put out power very consistently would help, but tire wise, as wide as you can run. I mean, I think, and less than the 36, you will not be caught. You will not have a fun 30, 36 is the minimum that you can do to, I would say like complete the ride. You will not be comfortable. You won't necessarily be happy, but you'll be able to get through. I ride the rose and cert courses around here on my crux, my specialized crux, which is a 2019 model that clears the 38. And I'm pretty comfortable on that bike. I don't ever feel really that I'm under biked. And I went, it's fairly dry and I'm not worried about getting mud in my stays. I will, I can clear a 42 on that bike. And I would say if I could run that consistently without worry of, you know, starting to take pain off, I'd run a 42 easily. I would say that's probably most traveled bikes. We'll clear 42 minimum. But that's, that's the. [00:52:34] Craig Dalton: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I mean, I think that's one of the interesting thing about taking a survey of all the gravel events out there. It's interesting seeing what people recommend, and I'm always frankly, more attracted to the races that are saying, bring your big tires. You're not going to regret it because it means they're getting creative with course design and really pushing the limits and capabilities of both the athletes and the bikes. So to onto some just not simple. What are the event dates and where can people find out more information about the event and are there still slots available this year? [00:53:07] Jess and Sam: So our date is Sunday, August 21st, and we have a welcome happy hour and scholarship fundraising evening on Friday, August 19th, that packet pickup and some liberal community rides are Saturday, August 20. Our website is the last best ride empty as in montana.com. We have been sold out for some time. We do have a wait list. It's pretty big. So if you got on the wait list now, unfortunately, You're probably planning for 2023, which is actually good because I don't even know if you could find a hotel room or an Airbnb at this point and Whitefish. It's why we send out early communication. Like before Christmas, the year before letting people know, like here's our links to our favorite camping and hotels, and like, here's how to make your life easier to plan to come to this little area. I just want to say as an aside, because we do talk up this course as being. Hard. It was also very important to us, but it is something that you could do if you're trying your first event. And our short course is manageable for anyone trying your first event. And we even have different start waves for the event for people who have different goals. If you want to hang out and meet friends, if you wanna, you know, ride a little more steady or if you really want to. You know, go full gas. Just the introduce that like, you don't have to start in the front and like elbows. So I really want to emphasize that our long course, definitely fitness would be the biggest challenge if you're newer to gravel. But it is inclusive. [00:54:53] Craig Dalton: And then finally, what's the finish line experience? Like what have you designed there? [00:54:59] Jess and Sam: Well, that was really, that was really important to us. And again, we wanted to focus on like our local vendors. And so we have above average race food. We have a local chef named Tim. Good. He has a catering truck. He owns a restaurant here and he has a catering truck called the cuisine machine. So last year you would find Mac and cheese. You'd find corn bread, chicken Marsala pork chops with huckleberry barbecue sauce, watermelon salad. And then we had our local ice cream company out and we had huckleberry ice cream, which is specialty to Montana. We had one, they made one forest called gravel road. And then we had beer vendor, wine vendor, and a local kombucha vendor, and all participants receive two drink coupons so they could use it however they wanted. Yeah. What else? Oh, and we offer bear spray. We never even touched, touched. The wildlife area, but yeah, we also sell bear spray and highly, highly recommend that you ride with it and know how to use it. [00:56:05] Craig Dalton: Well, we'll let people do their own research. As they're thinking about 2023 for this, I love getting these types of events out on people's radar. We realize that they're not unlimited capacity, so you've gotta be able to plan ahead. And I, for one really loved traveling to new areas and experiencing gravel around the country. It just reminds you of what a special place the United States can be and how much amazing outdoor activities is right there on our own country. [00:56:30] Jess and Sam: We would love to have you up here. I mean, if You can come this year, we we'll we know the person [00:56:36] Craig Dalton: one special slot. Nice. [00:56:38] Jess and Sam: special slot for you, but if 2023 works better, we'd love to have you up here. And yeah. [00:56:44] Craig Dalton: Thank you for that. And I appreciate both of your time. It's great to get to know you. And, and again, I hope everybody checks out last, last, best ride. I'll put link in the show notes and we'll make sure everybody knows how to find you guys. [00:56:56] Jess and Sam: Thank you so much. Hope to see everyone. [00:56:59] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Big, thanks to Sam. And just for joining us. I love the sounds of what they've created out there in Montana, and certainly hope to visit it someday and myself. I'll be sure to put appropriate links in the show notes. If you need any more information about last best ride. Huge. Thanks to our sponsor. The feed. Remember you can get 50% off the feed formula. Just visit the feed.com/the gravel ride. If you're interested in connecting with me, I encourage you to join the ridership. Just visit www.theridership.com. It's a free global cycling community based in the slack channel. You can visit us and communicate with other gravel cyclists all around the world. If we're able to support the podcast, please visit buy me a coffee.com/ Solo ride. Additionally ratings and reviews are hugely helpful in my discoverability and my goal of connecting with as many gravel cyclists as possible. Until next time here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels  

How difficult can it be to drink? Judging by the number of hydration problems you see on race day, pretty darned difficult indeed. Dr Kevin Sprouse joins us to talk about how to stay hyrdrated on race day. We also dig into the surprisingly challenging 12 miles between Pipeline and Twin Lakes Dam, and how to achieve your goal for this part of the race: to get to the base of Columbine fueled, fast, and ready to climb.

This week we sit down with Greg Williams from the Lost and Found Gravel Festival and Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship to hear about this years festival and the work SBTS does in the Lost Sierra. Episode Sponsor: The Feed Lost and Found Gravel Festival Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Lost and Found [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. Yeah. This week on the podcast, we have Greg Williams from the lost and found gravel festival and Sierra Buttes trail stewardship organization. Talking about the lost and found gravel event coming up this June in California. And all the great work that his nonprofit does to make the trails in the Los Sierra, an amazing place to visit. Before we jump in we need to thank this Week's sponsor the feed. The feed is the largest online marketplace for sports nutrition. They've got all your favorite sports, nutrition brands in one place. If you've developed an affinity like I have for certain brands. You can hop on over to the feed and mix and match. So you get everything you need in one delivery. If you're a frequent listener, you've probably heard me talk about the feed formula. The feed formula is a customizable nutritional supplement package. Available only from the feed. Feed formulas were developed in conjunction with Dr. Kevin Sprouse. Of the EDF pro cycling team. And uses the same techniques he uses with top athletes. Ensuring they have all their nutritional needs covered. You can customize each packet from a base formula. And add on specific formulas for recovery, for aging, a bunch of different things. If you're not already taking a supplement in your daily routine to support your gravel cycling career. I encourage you to take a look at these. They provide a convenient way in individually wrapped pouches to remember to take all the supplements you need to keep your body operating in tip top shape. Podcast listeners can get 50% off their first order of feed formula by visiting the feed.com/the gravel ride. Remember that's 50% off your first order of the feed formula, simply visit. The feed. Dot com slash the gravel ride. Would that business behind us let's jump right into this week's episode with greg williams Hey, Greg, welcome to the show. [00:02:26] Greg Williams: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited. [00:02:28] Craig Dalton: I am T a man. , we're going to talk about the lost and found gravel grinder a little bit later in the broadcast. And it's a, it's an event that I've wanted to talk about for a couple of years now, actually probably four years, maybe because everybody who ever came back from it was like, this is an amazing event. Let's table that for a minute, because I really want to just start with you and just get a little bit about your background and how you ended up in the region. And then let's talk about the nonprofit, because I think everything you do up there is so intertwined with the gravel event and why it's so special that I think it's important to start. [00:03:02] Greg Williams: Yeah. A little bit of my background. My heritage is Milwaukee Indian up in the Northern Sierra and Nevada city region. And my, my tribe, was displaced almost overnight and my grand great grandfather went he ended up in Downieville actually during the gold rush and. Met this family called the Shaughnessy's, who had, they were opening a supply shop. So shovels and food in town. And my grandfather started building trails and Downieville and running pack meals to the minds. And growing up, it was always, the story that my dad would tell me about Downieville and and it didn't really matter until I got into mountain biking as a teenager and started riding Downieville and I was like, okay, this is it, man. This is my spot. This is, this is what I want to do. And as a teenager, I started guiding a mountain bikes, up in the region and then started running shuttles as well. I opened a bike shop in town 1991, and then started an event that was called the coyote classic in 1995. And now that's the Downieville classic. Downieville has been, a part of my heritage, part of my. My personal economy, part of my survival story. And the town was really starting to transition. I would say, it was a mining town primarily when I got there a lot of dredging on the rivers. And then when that became illegal in California, a lot of the miners in the family started to leave. And about that same time, a lot of the loggers were starting to leave as well. Recreation working with the chamber of commerce and the county kind of became this thing of Hey, will this work here in Downieville? And I think it has, Downieville is a, an international destination. The motels and restaurants, all depend on mountain bike, recreation and tourism. So I think it's a great model of like how recreation can keep a town alive that was, could potentially, have burned out the economy was not doing well. [00:04:59] Craig Dalton: It's so interesting. We often hear about how gravel cycling events have played that same role in rural communities. So it's interesting to hear you reference it back as to how mountain biking was playing that role back in the day for Downieville. Can you just for the listener who may be elsewhere outside of the state of California, can you position their minds as to where Downieville is located? [00:05:23] Greg Williams: Yeah. So Downieville this region, we call it the Los Sierra, and it's basically north of Truckee and north Northwest of Reno. We're about two hours. Like in a car from Sacramento or like 45 minutes from Truckee an hour from Reno like an hour and a half to Chico. So this is zone up here. We call it the Los Sierra. And it was really, there was a mail route back in the gold mining days. And the mailman would ski from Downieville up towards Quincy. And I think got lost a few times. And so it's a name we've stuck with. And part of it's loss of opportunities, loss of revenue. Loss of pride. But we're bringing it back through trying to keep it up, keep it a positive, and that's part of lost and found was, come and find yourself up here. [00:06:07] Craig Dalton: Yeah, amazing. So for the listener, who's obviously like my listener has a gravel orientation. The mountain biking in and around Downieville is absolutely exceptional. And as you mentioned, it's it's got a world renowned ship at this point. People from around the world have heard of Downieville and aspire to ride their bikes there. What makes the trail system so special? [00:06:28] Greg Williams: I think the fact that it Was built during the gold rush. There's a lot and there's a lot of trails, but these trails are like our super rowdy and steep, that's, the character of Downieville is like going fast through the rocks on a cliff. Being scared and then going for a swim and having a cold beer afterwards, so like for us as a trail stewardship, it's really important that we maintain the character of those trails. They were built for mules to go from point a to point B. There was no sustainable running grade. There was no thought of people like enjoying themselves on these trials, or certainly wasn't, they weren't thinking mountain bikes would be on them, but They have the character that people love. And so when we do all of our trail work, we're working really closely with the hydrologist to make sure that these trails are sustainable. They're not putting sediment into the creeks. Our region delivers a lot of clean drinking water to California, 65% between the Yuba and feather. Water's a big thing for us up here. And so as a rough and rowdy trails, so we're striking the balance in Downieville. You can't build those kinds of trails today. The forest service would just say out of spec, but the trails we build, today are just different. They're still as fun and enjoyable. They just, they're just more sustainable. [00:07:44] Craig Dalton: Was it that the fact that. Technically you already existed as mutual paths that you were able to get them effectively grandfathered in the format that they already existed in. [00:07:54] Greg Williams: For sure. And these trails, like in. the seventies, the forest service started to take them into their system. And at the time they were there, their solutions, these trails are open the motorcycles too. So you could ride motorcycles. You could ride e-bikes mountain bikes, hike, equestrian. So a trail for everyone. Those are the best. Those are the trails we like up here. Cause we're not, densely populated. We don't have high use necessarily. A lot of these trails are directional and in a sense that, just how people use them. So it all works really well together. Yeah just historic and some prehistoric from the native folks that were here. [00:08:34] Craig Dalton: You mentioned the Sierra Buttes trail stewardship organization. Can you just talk about the origins of that and what the journey has been like over the time it's existed? [00:08:45] Greg Williams: Yeah. Basically like we, we needed tools to put in people's hands. We were doing trail work days. And those started like with, a group of 10 and everybody had fun. And then the next time we'd have one, there'd be 20 people. And so we were getting these like work parties to where, there was like a hundred people showing up and this was before we had our nonprofit. And so we were. We are struggling to put tools in people's hands. We're good at putting a beer in their hands, on a burger at a barbecue, but we were like, man, we need tools. And we formed our nonprofit status in 2003. And the first grants we wrote were really just to buy tools. And so we started tooling up and then We started hiring folks. Henry O'Donnell who grew up in Downieville. He's our trail boss now. He's been working with us for 16 years and is built, probably a hundred miles of trail with his crews alone. As much as it was about taking care of the trails, it became about taking care of each other and the people and the communities. We like to say we're in the business of revitalizing mountain communities and we use trails as the tool to do it. So we're surrounded by national forest up here. And there's, the jobs traditionally have come from logging and mining. So we see recreation as being sustainable and a chance like for us to be more resilient and retain working families and put kids to work and really educate people on the importance of this place so that they can come up. And join us as land stewards or what the next time there's a bill to vote on for land or water issues, maybe they'll vote. Yes. Because they care about a place. [00:10:18] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. It's quite impressive. The scale of the organization at this point, imagining you starting it, it's quite straightforward to start a nonprofit, but it's quite difficult to generate a significant amount of donations or grants or funding. What did that path look like to obtain this type of scale, where you're able to meaningfully hire people in the community and do a huge amount of work in the last year? [00:10:44] Greg Williams: Yeah. I think one of the early keys and we didn't realize it at the time was just not being. Like, we could have easily said, Hey, we're Downieville mountain bike organization. Cause we were all mountain bikers. We rode dirt bikes, we all hiked. But because we really landed on trail stewardship and we're more inclusive. I think that was a real gift that we gave ourselves early on. Cause in this whole region we work we work in wilderness areas. We maintain huge chunks of the Pacific crest trail associate. Pacific crest trail. We put outdoor classroom and trail on every school campus and Plumas and Sierra county for the kids to get a trail experience and outdoor classroom. And then we build dirt bike trails, we build mountain bike trails. So if there's a trail in our region, like we want to be able to help. We want to be able to maintain it, build it and engage. Any type of recreate or we can become to come join in. So I think that's been a real key to our success. And then also I think, for me, like just growing up a young entrepreneur, like always having to make my own money not, having a big like support system. Get to be like a survivor, and scrappy and your heads up. And, you're just like, okay, what's the next thing. And we've just honestly had that approach with grants and projects, knowing what key projects to take and not take on too much. And and then in times, like with the pandemic and the big fires we've had up here is to really be able. Quickly react and a thoughtful way, like not just panic and not start down a road or a trail, that's like going to be the wrong one, and if it feels wrong in the beginning, we're like, Hey, what are we doing here? Do we have to do this like quick analysis? Like check-ins And so we've just, I think that's just like part of the nature of being up here. If you're raising your family up here and you've been here For generations, you just know like how it is, and it's, it takes everything sometimes. [00:12:38] Craig Dalton: For the listener who wants to support the organization? Do you accept direct donations or is it all grant based? How do you fund it? [00:12:45] Greg Williams: So we fund it. It's interesting. Cause like in 2019, I would say. Okay. Here's how we fund ourselves. We had lost and found we had the Downieville classic. We had grind Duro. We had a UBA expeditions, which is our guide outfitter business and shuttles like shuttling, almost 9,000 people up the hill. That was like 30% actually Yuba was like 28% of our gross revenue and events were up around like 35%. And and then the pandemic hit and took away all of our events took away our shuttles for a whole year limited our operations as a guide service, and then also took away barbecues and volunteer big days. So we got hit really hard. And during that time, We were like, man, what are we going to do? How do we bring up like donations, like to a higher level without events. And so in 21 when that year closed out, our donations were 38% of our gross. When they were at 3% in 2019, we still had no event. Income. Grants are running a right around 40% of our gross. Basically, we have we have public funding, like through grants and programs. We have private funding, we have foundations and then we have Yuba and we're bringing lost and found back on. So really trying to strengthen all the different, legs of the organization. So that. We're more, we can react more. We can be survivors. Like we want this to be A hundred year organization. And like those two years are just really just a little blip, but but at the same time, like when you're in the middle of it, it's like a big mountain in front of you, and so I think just, we've learned so much, we've learned like what we're made of, we know we know how to better support each other as staff and families. So there's really we're pretty confident in that we just need, honestly, we need an investment up here. We have some big projects. We need people sign up for lost and found whether they're going to come and race, or they're going to come and ride and enjoy the aid stations, or they just want to come help volunteer, just like just help us. And that. [00:14:53] Craig Dalton: percent. Yeah. I hope, I hope for any non-profit that's suffered with the elimination of in-person events over the last couple of years, that as you mentioned, just like stepping up their constituents, willingness to donate directly. And hopefully that can become habitualized. So you keep that 30 odd percent of direct donations. Plus you've got event revenue and all the other in-person things you were talking about and you come out of this even stronger than when you began. [00:15:23] Greg Williams: Yeah. That's certainly the goal and like this year we've we're looking at like peer-to-peer crowdfunding. It is one of the components to folks that are lining up or volunteering. But I think it's new, for people they're like, what do I do? How do I do it? Like my son has type one diabetes. And so I do a ride that benefits. It's totally built in, right? Like you're like, oh Yeah. of course this is what you do. This is how you do it. And so we want to get there with each one of our events and have the funding, help us with our operational costs, help us match up grants, no grant is free. It always costs whether it's time or money or volunteers, there's always a cost. So that's like we want, and we want people to be aware, like not just come do the race and be like, Yeah. that was awesome. But really. Have some ownership and some pride and help us like move this, these communities forward a little bit, [00:16:15] Craig Dalton: yeah. Yeah. I think anybody, you put some rubber on the road or on the trail in the Los Sierra comes away knowing it's a really special area. I'm sure as we get more people up there, they're gonna have a similar love for it and loyalty to it. One of the things that I saw mentioned and saw a couple of friends in the gravel community talking about where was the connected community project. Can you talk about what that's all about? [00:16:40] Greg Williams: Yeah connected communities is really, it's a project that the trails master plan got funded through Sierra Nevada Conservancy, which is a state agency. And and I got invited to, to talk at this mountain venture summit. And I was like, okay, I can just talk about all this stuff like we're doing or the normal stuff, but let's do something cool. And our board president Greg Carter, and I got together and we just had this huge regional map and we just started like laying out sticky notes about each of the towns. And how man, could we connect these with trails? And at the same time, like they're already connected with dirt roads, but how do we promote this? How do we make it to where people can look at a map that's readable? Cause there is 10,000 miles of dirt roads in those regions. So trying to plan a trip is holy crap. I don't even know where to start. There's so many roads. So a big effort is we're going to map out all the high quality gravel, dirt road. At linking the towns so people can start, doing bike packing. Part of our Yuba expeditions guide service will be what we're calling a mountain mule, which is basically hauling your gear from point to point which would be a combination of like overnight camping and then getting you into a town and do some accommodations and restaurants. And then we're going to build 620 miles of single track to connect these towns. part of that's already in the works. Some of it exists already. Some of it's been planned out for a long time. And we're in construction, like connecting Quincy to Taylorsville the next town over. So we have this big project and. It's rolling. It's not, we're not just waiting for the plan to be done. We're actually implementing parts of it. Some of it's an environmental review, so heritage botany, wildlife hydrology surveys are being done. We have two crews that are out ground-truthing all the mapping to ensure that those trails are in the optimum location. But when it's done 15 mountain towns, including Reno and Truckee will be connected all throughout the Los Sierra region was single track. All the dirt roads will be mapped out in such a way that you can plan your adventures. And also know what kind of services each of the town has. And then another component of this is to look at the potential overnight hot locations. But really we want to drive people riding with the main street of the downtown, with their credit card. To patronize these businesses because outside of Reno and Truckee, all these communities are severely disadvantaged economically. So everybody's struggling. And some of these businesses are just hanging on. So this is an opportunity to drive an economy into the region. That's going to last for generations. [00:19:14] Craig Dalton: Yeah, amazing. I love it. I love it so much adventuring to be had in the Los Sierra. No question about. [00:19:22] Greg Williams: Absolutely. We have plenty of room for everybody. [00:19:23] Craig Dalton: Let's move on and let's talk about the lost and found gravel festival. It's coming up here in June, and there's still some slots available. So I want to make sure that people walk away knowing what's the festival all about what's the vibe let's get into it. And I'll ask you some questions to just to figure it all out. [00:19:39] Greg Williams: Yeah. This is an interesting one. And just in terms of how we got into this, and we'd been doing Downieville for a long time and Chris McGovern who's a frame builder. And who also grew up in Nevada city, went to the same high school as I did. I ran into him at Interbike in 2013, and he's dude, you need to do a gravel event. And I'm like, What is that? And And I, and it was just like, man, this is what we used to do when we were kids like ride all these dirt roads, it's oh, that's a thing now. And Chris put this bug in my ear, we started talking more, doing some mapping, invited him and Cameron falconer. Up and we just started like testing routes, like those guys are both super fit. I'm like, I'll drive the support vehicle and meet you guys, here's the map. And so we just started really laying out this course, it started just north of Portola and like Davis and and we got the permits pretty quickly working with the Plumas national forest. And the first year we had around 290 racers and [00:20:37] Craig Dalton: What year was that? Greg? [00:20:38] Greg Williams: I was in 2014. [00:20:40] Craig Dalton: Okay. [00:20:41] Greg Williams: Yeah. And we had great folks like Paul components and WTB who were like, we're doing an aid station. That's going to be a party of its own, and so we had these perfect elements to pull this gravel event off. And then, the second year we doubled the entries the next year, we doubled that again. And like in 2019 we had around 1700 people signed up, we were going to cap it at 2000. And I think just the recipe of like how we do these events, we make them super fun. The courses are great. The aid stations are suburb, just an overall great experience camping live music, all the stuff that we like. And then at the same time, how do we introduce people to this whole new area, and bring them into zones that they wouldn't otherwise get out. So really showcases this region as we're calling it the gravel capital of the west. And that's because it has 10,000 miles of dirt roads. Like you can't find that anywhere in the U S and and there's, great rivers, there's great lakes. There's a fire lookouts. You can visit some of them you can rent for overnight stays. So this is it. This is the gravel capital of the west. [00:21:50] Craig Dalton: I love it. Put a stake in the ground there. What community is Los and fountain based out of. [00:21:55] Greg Williams: It's it starts in the city of Portola, which is right on the headwaters of the middle fork of. the feather river next to the Sierra valley, which is the largest Alpine valley in north America sits around 5,000 feet of elevation with a great big mountain right behind it called Beckworth peak. And right from there, you can hit all these roads, just right off the main paved road. It's perfect. [00:22:18] Craig Dalton: Are you offering multiple course distances? [00:22:21] Greg Williams: Yeah, we have a 35 mile course that has two flagship aid stations on it. And then we have a 60 mile course. That has four aid stations on it. And then we have the hundred that has six aid stations on it. They overlap for the start. Everybody does the first 10 and a half miles, which is a climb up to 7,000 feet. Those are essential in any event is to have a big climb that, that separates people, [00:22:46] Craig Dalton: Yeah, for [00:22:47] Greg Williams: And so those Are elements we learned throughout this. Cause we've had different courses over the years. Some of them were great. Some were like, oh man, don't do that again. [00:22:55] Craig Dalton: Are they what's the starting elevation up there in Portola. [00:22:58] Greg Williams: Yeah. It's I want to say the town is like 5,100. [00:23:02] Craig Dalton: Okay. So starting at 5,100, going up to 7,000 with that first climb, I agree. I feel like back when the events were smaller, it was okay to start off on some single track or something like that. But in this day and age, when you've got a thousand people on a course, definitely great to break it up and to have people find their own, their own tribe in the event. [00:23:21] Greg Williams: Yeah, and we have, we have a great relationship with city of Portola. Going into this year, we were hesitant of man, we don't want to, the last thing we want to do is have to cancel another event. And COVID was still a thing. So we got a late start on this thing, like we're really looking at this as like a rebuild year. We realized like, Hey, we're late to the table here. We also conflict with the Kansas ride. So there's a couple of things like working against us, but at the same time This is going to be a hell of a party. Like we're throwing everything we have at this thing to make sure everybody has a great time and comes back, brings friends the next year. And it, like I said, it was important to city of Portola. They approached us and they were like, Hey stewardship, like we need this event. We just went through two years. Our businesses are hurting. The city helps provide a lot of the camping and infrastructure in the town. So they were a real true partner. And then the Plumas national forest has road crews out there right now, like dialing in all these roads. And what we're hoping is developed, like what we're calling a signature route to where every year the road crew has priorities to take care of on the lost and found routes. So it's every year it's just dial Primo. [00:24:30] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's one of those events, I didn't realize actually it had been around as long as it has, but that makes sense because I feel like at least in the bay area and Marin county, like you talk about gravel riding and. Lost and found, always comes up and it always comes up with two thumbs up saying oh, you gotta do it. It's great. Riding just a great overall community vibe in a sport that is maybe changing a bit to say the least in terms of the amount of resources and the amount of professional athletes coming into it. I think events that just maintain that community vibe are always going to be the ones that are in people's hearts and that they want to do. [00:25:10] Greg Williams: Yeah. And we, we realized like we get top athletes that come here to put it to each other, but the majority of people are here to just go on a bike ride with their buddies, have the aid stations be able to camp out, have the music like that festival atmosphere. That's where we're really trying to position ourselves as Hey, if you want it. There, there is alternatives if you're just purely eraser, but if you want to come and ride like one of the best courses in the world and have some top brands like cater to you throughout the course that their aid stations, like this is where you want to come. And if you want to help support a community recover after, the wildfires and the pandemic and help an organization. With the, with a grand project, a legacy project, like this is the spot like everybody's welcome. And whether you're writing a check or picking up a shovel your help is welcome. [00:26:01] Craig Dalton: Amazing. You talked about a little bit more about from a mountain bike perspective, the type of terrain that's up there for the gravel course, for those who are coming from outside the area. What type of equipment is important to have underneath you to be successful at lost and found [00:26:17] Greg Williams: Yeah, big tires. I think that's the number one thing is the first year we had people like on road bikes because people didn't really know it. Like gravel racing was anyway. They're like, oh, it's this thing. But these you're in the Sierra Nevada up here and it's, there's spots where man, you're like, it's rough. I think like one year, like Carl Decker rode a hard tail man. Fully rigid. So it's just kinda like a mix. And I think, the course that we have this year, I would say you're totally dialed on a gravel bike, but you're going to want like a 40 C tire maybe with a little thicker casing. Just so you're not flattened. [00:26:53] Craig Dalton: Yep. Are you staying primarily on fire roads through the mountains? There are you getting off into this single track? [00:26:59] Greg Williams: We're at, this is a no single track right ride, but some of the roads have single track? lines, right? Like you want to be, you want your head up, you want to be paying attention. There's ruts there's rocks. There's a smoother line, especially on a gravel bike. You don't want to give yourself a whiplash or, too much excitement. But I would say you're paying attention the whole time. You're not, zoning out because the road is just smooth and you gotta pay attention, plus it's so beautiful out here. Like the wild flowers are gonna be coming out. The rivers are flowing the mountain stuff, snow on them. People will be looking around, but they really need to pay attention. [00:27:35] Craig Dalton: once you get a top that first climb, are you doing a commiserate elevation drop? Is it a big descent? [00:27:41] Greg Williams: It's a sweet so the roads were using too are like some of the better system roads, like we've taken people in some pretty primitive back country roads, and there is a mix of this, but this particular road is one of the nicer maintain. Like around a set, like a price of 5% running grade. So you're able to just like big ring paddle through like really big sweeper turns super enjoyable. And then you have another climb that's around 700 feet, another like descent of a thousand. And then a lot of rolling train. Cause you're connecting all these Alpine valleys as you go. And then for the final you come down like the smoothest road in Plumas county. And and then into this tube that goes under the highway. That's a we negotiate this deal with the landowner there. It's a handshake deal, Hey, races are going to be coming through here, your insured. He's great. I'll have my lawn chair and a cooler of beer here to watch, and that's part of what makes the specialty, right? It's just all the community coming together and people working together and allowing stuff like that riders to come through private property, like ordinarily the guy would not allow that, [00:28:45] Craig Dalton: Yeah, you mentioned you've got ample camping situations up there for athletes and families coming up. Are there also other accommodation possibilities? [00:28:54] Greg Williams: Yeah. There's resorts up here. There's motels. there's a ton of camping, honestly, there's forest service camping around like Davis and some of the valleys that the ride's going to be going through. And then city of Portola they have a city park. That's all grass that has like baseball, baseball, diamonds, a swimming pool, the showers are open. And then there's camping all along the middle fork of the feather river, right in downtown. So the idea is get people to stay in town and then they can just ride their bike to the coffee shop or, head over to the pizza place. So that's part of the reason we moved the race down from starting at lake Davis was like, let's get people downtown. Plus, when the lakes full the amount of land we have to work with, decreases quite a bit. It worked great the first year with 200 riders, but now that we're up around 1200 to 2000, we need more. And this park really allows people to spread out. And then we have a little amphitheater for the music and and then there's nothing like just starting in the middle of a downtown, and then finishing at the same place coming through town. [00:29:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I had one final question on finishing. So I've been out there on a great adventure on my gravel bike all day. I crossed the finish line. What's the vibe. What's the scene. When I crossed the finish line at last. [00:30:05] Greg Williams: Yeah. So you're going to get greeted by our local bike team, the Los Sierra composite team. They're gonna, they'll take your bike. They'll wash it. They'll put the, lock it up and the tennis courts. So like a fully secured bike zone. And you're going to walk over and grab a cold Sierra Nevada beer. And then we hire this, like top-notch catering company and mountain magic to do like a top quality meal for ya. Then you're gonna pull up a chair in the park, enjoy a beer, enjoy some live music, eat some food, tell some stories, and then if you have it in you, like the music goes and you can dance all night. [00:30:41] Craig Dalton: I love it, Greg. I think that's an amazing point to end on, and I hope everybody's as stoked about this event as I am. And as stoked about the work that you're doing in the Los Sierra, it really is a special part of California. And I hope everybody clicks on the links in the show notes and goes and checks out the Los and found gravel grinder festival as well as the work you're doing at Sierra. [00:31:04] Greg Williams: Yeah, come on up and play with us. [00:31:06] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Greg Williams, be sure to check out the lost and found gravel festival. It's definitely going to be an amazing event this year. I've heard only good things about it. So I encourage you to check it out. And grab one of those last available slots. Huge, thanks to our sponsor, the feed. Make sure to go check out the feed formulas to get 15% off. Just visit the feed.com/the gravel ride. If you're interested in connecting with me, I encourage you to join the ridership@wwwdottheridership.com. And if you have an opportunity, please leave a rating or review or visit me@buymeacoffee.com slash the growl ride to support the podcast. Until next time here's to finding some dirt under your wheels

This week Randall Jacobs sits down with Fort Bragg, CA Sculptor and trail builder Nick Taylor to discuss the intersection of cycling and art.  Episode Sponsor: The Feed Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Nick Taylor [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week, I'm going to kick it back over to my co-host Randall Jacobs for a little something different for ya. Randall's interviewing sculptor trail builder and Mendocino cycling stalwart, Nick Taylor in an exploration on how the bike became interwoven in one artist's life Before I pass the mic over to Randall. I need to thank this. Week's sponsor the feed. The feed is the largest online marketplace for sports nutrition. They've got all your favorite sports, nutrition brands in one place. If you've developed an affinity like I have for certain brands. You can hop on over to the feed and mix and match. So you get everything you need in one delivery. I was just visiting the feed.com before recording this intro and I remembered in addition to all the nutritional brands that they carry, they also carry a wide variety of training gear. You might remember a couple episodes back when we were focusing on recovery. We talked about foam rollers. We talked about Sarah guns. We talked about pneumatic leg compression tools. I think we talked about the power dot, actually all these things are available@thefeed.com. So in addition to getting your nutrition handled, You can work on your recovery. Like I've been doing. And finally I wanted to mention again, the feed formulas. The feed formulas are the world's first daily supplement pouch for athletes created in conjunction with Dr. Kevin Sprouse from the ETF pro cycling team. They feature best in class, branded supplements, never generics. You get personalized recommendation based on your needs as an athlete, and they're all delivered in a convenient daily pouch. We've got a limited time special offer of 50% off on your first order of the feed formula by simply going to the feed.com/the gravel ride. Remember that's the feed.com/the gravel ride With that said, I'm going to hand it over to my co-host Randall Jacobs and his interview with Nick Taylor. [00:02:26] Randall: Nick, I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time welcome to the podcast. [00:02:31] Nick: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on Randall. [00:02:34] Randall: So before we dive in, let's give listeners a bit of background. Who are you, where are you from? What matters to you? [00:02:40] Nick: My name's Nick Taylor. I'm up here in Fort Bragg, California. That's about 180 miles north of San Francisco along the coast, fairly remote area. I'm a sculptor and a big bike bicycle advocate, as well as running a trail crew building trails out here in the Mendocino coast. [00:03:00] Randall: Yeah. And as somebody who has been to your workshop, I can say well, one, the area is quite beautiful and to the space in which you create some of the things that we'll be talking about and linking to in the notes. So it's a pretty special place. So tell us a bit about your, relationship to the bicycle. How did it get started? How has it evolved over time? [00:03:20] Nick: Well, you know, I think we all probably started riding Pikes when we were kids. And I certainly did that on a gravel road and in rural Ohio. So I had some experience as a kid and there was a big lapse and it wasn't until I was in my early twenties that I picked the bicycle back up and started to use it again. And that was a. I had, I don't know what really, what the impetus was for getting back on a bike, but I wanted to do some exploring and I guess that just seemed like a good way to go about it. And I bought myself a an old Schwinn Latour for 80 bucks and a. I was staying with my grandmother at that point up in Ohio. And I started doing some riding in the rides, you know, slowly became longer and longer. And I, I decided, well, you know what, I want to go do some tour. And so that led to a bit, a little, a little bit of touring on that the tour prior to graduate school, back in the early eighties. [00:04:15] Randall: So tell us about some of the early tours. What was that like? [00:04:18] Nick: Well, it was prepping to go to graduate school and really wanted to get out in between visiting one school and another, and I bought a gray ham pass. It was good for 30 days and pulled the map of the U S out and closed my eyes. And. Put my finger down on wherever it game. And, and the first place was I got out in south Kadoka, South Dakota at a midnight at a gas station and you know, road the next day through, you know, from Kadoka through the Badlands and into a rapid city. And I didn't have a particularly good experience in rapid city. So I pulled the map out again, close my eyes and finger another place on the map. Got out and Shelby Montana and had a great time from there. So, you know, a ride from Shelby across the Rocky mountains and through glacier national park, which was just extraordinary. And then down to Spokane Washington, at which point I had to create my bike up and had had to Davis, California to go look at the school there. [00:05:23] Randall: Oh, wow. So that was essentially coming off after a month of kind of dirt bagging camping out, or what were your, what were your accommodations along the route? [00:05:33] Nick: I mean, everything. Everything I needed was on the bike, [00:05:37] Randall: so, you found a shower before you had your interview. [00:05:40] Nick: Yup. Knock some of the stink off. [00:05:43] Randall: So now you're in Davis and this is a program in what area? [00:05:48] Nick: So it was a MFA program, for a master of fine arts graduate school. It was back in the early eighties and I don't know where it is now, but, it was a leading school for the arts. It rivaled Dal our graduate department. And so it was, I got there and they had a very open format, which I much enjoyed everything I was looking at on the east coast was a very structured format. And I was done with that. I'd had five years of that at the university of Tennessee. And I was mostly just looking for studio. And that's what I got in Davis. And I also got to be around people that were pretty well renowned, you know, which was a new experience for me. I mean, I had people like manual Neary and Robert artisan and Wayne Tebow and Roy deforest were all teaching there. So I got exposure to all these professional artists that I had experienced before. [00:06:43] Randall: And was the writing community as developed then as it is now, right now, Davis is very much known as having great bike infrastructure. And UC Davis has a top cycling team and so on. [00:06:54] Nick: It was definitely a big thing there. Vibe culture was big and Davis and. And that was a new thing too. I mean, most people, certainly all the students. And I think back then there were 16,000 students, they were getting around and bikes. And that was very cool. And there was a lot of road biking going on out there too, which I participated in, you know, I got myself a Miata. I forget what model it was. It was there a touring bike, which is a pretty nice bike though. When I was buying it, it was the first new bike I'd ever had. And the guys kept telling me it was too big. A frame is too big, a frame it's like, I, I didn't listen to them. Should have, but you know, I wrote it for a number, number of years Anthony. Okay. But I realized in hindsight it was, it was too big. From there. I moved to the east bay and lived in Oakland and point Richmond primarily. I mean, there were the little stints in San Francisco and Berkeley, but primary residents were in point Richmond and Oakland. [00:07:52] Randall: what was it like back then versus what it's like at this time, [00:07:56] Nick: Well, there weren't as many people and it was a little cheaper to live, you know, and as an artist, you're always trying to live on the cheap, right. So, I mean, your goal is to, to be in your studio as much as you can and work as you have to, to cover your bills. So it was cheaper, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't as a fluid as it is now. You know, riding, riding, you know, it was entirely different than it was. And in Davis, everything out in Davis is flat land. The only thing you really had to contend with there was the wind which could be quite daunting at times though. Anytime you had the wind at your back If the conditions were just right, you'd be in this little envelope, this little bubble with the windier bath, where there was absolutely no resistance. And it was a remarkable thing to experience because the only thing you would hear is the pedaling, the chain moving through the cracks and across the cassette. And, and other than that, and there was no, no resistance. It just like you just flew across the landscape. And that was pretty extreme. didn't get to experience that when you were in Oakland, I mean, you had the Hills contend with and climbing up to, to a skyline drive and running her, riding the Ridge along through there, and certainly more traffic. [00:09:05] Randall: So, I recall you mentioning like over a decade in the bay area, [00:09:10] Nick: 20 years. Yeah. Was in the, in the, in the bay area for 20 years, it was a good experience. We had, when I was in point Richmond, we had a wonderful studio out there that was a live works situation. It was a, it was an illegal live in, you know, it. We're it was, it was such a stunning location. I mean, you were a seven acre parcel, surrounded by park on the San Francisco bay. That it was pretty extraordinary. It's just the kind of place you don't typically see in this day and age, you know, everything's been developed now, [00:09:44] Randall: Yeah. Hi, high end condos and lofts, [00:09:47] Nick: Yup. And so, you know, we, we lived there. It was one of my last places to stay. And the property was sold. The park system bought the property that we were living in and they wanted to incorporate it to the rest of the park. So we all got the boot and I didn't want it to be a renter anymore. I wanted to buy something. So threw a bit of searching. We found this place up here in Fort Bragg and made the move, even though we didn't know anybody. Yeah. [00:10:12] Randall: And that was just a parcel of land at the time, right? [00:10:15] Nick: That's true. It's it was small parcel, just over two and a half acres, fully wooded, which is what I really wanted to avoid. I really wanted to buy something I could remodel and at least have utilities in, you know, water and power, but we had nothing. It was a fully wooded property lot. And so amy, my wife and I, we spent a year of weekends coming up to the property from the bay area and logging the property ourself cleared about 200 trees. And some of these are pretty good sized trees. And we did that with an old forklift that I bought in an old international harvester that I had with a big PTO winch on the front. So we spent a year clearing clearing the land Then it's then it went idle for a little bit of the work. What idle for a little bit, as I was involved in a project down in the bay area that kept me, kept me tied up for a number of years. [00:11:05] Randall: Well, and that that's not just any project. So maybe give listeners a little bit of a background on that, on what that project was and your involvement with it. [00:11:13] Nick: This was this was a cloud gate. It's more commonly known as the bean. It's a big piece of sculpture in the city of Chicago. Which is now part of, part of their landscape icon to the city. It's a, it's a 60 foot long, roughly 35 foot high, 45 foot wide, perfectly smooth mirror finish sculpture that's in the shape of a bean or something like a beam. And that's, it's a pretty remarkable thing. So. I was involved with that for four and a half years first working on that on equipment we had to build for fabricating it and then doing some of the prototyping and then a lot of the fabrication of it. And then eventually back in Chicago for almost a year to see its installation and finish. [00:11:59] Randall: And for anyone who hasn't seen it, I strongly recommend that you use. Look it up. For me, it's just this really surreal thing, just plopped in this park in Chicago, reflecting the skyline. It almost looks like CGI because it's too perfect. Given the scale of the thing. And you and I have talked about the tolerances involved and so on and like, think about just the weight of it and how that dis wants to distort the structure and the material. What was your role specifically? You were the crew lead or the project lead? [00:12:27] Nick: Onsite, I would have been the supervisor overseeing all of its installation and it was working in Chicago with the local iron workers ironworker 63, local 63, which is great group of fellows. I very much enjoyed working with them. And you know, this, the bean was, was a prototype. It was like nobody had ever had ever built anything like that. And it was a combination of old world in hands-on kind of technology and computer generated. Imagery, you know, it's just like, you couldn't do it without being able to work with the hands, but you couldn't have done it without a computer because of all the tolerances that were involved. I mean, we had to have a computer set up a piece of equipment that would scan each piece and make sure it was. tolerance of what the computer model was and the tolerance for each piece is like a 32nd vintage. So, you know, and then you have 168 of those to put together and, the tolerances are, are no less stringent. [00:13:24] Randall: Well, and you have this thing that's mirror polished. So It doesn't just have to look good on its own. This mirror Polish is going to reveal any sort of imperfection in the surface whatsoever and distort the image. [00:13:35] Nick: It absolutely does, and reflecting the skyline the city scape, you know, with all the structures that are running plumbing, horizontal that grid work shows up shows any sort of mistake in the reflection on the piece. [00:13:50] Randall: I hope to make it out there in person at some point before, too long to, to check it out, but just seeing the imagery in some videos of it, it's it's quite an achievement, I mean, it's one thing to design such a thing and imagine such a thing, but, this So. much about the execution of that, that is really a wonder, so well done there. And that's not the only large scale sculpture you've been involved with. That is a, probably a pretty well-known there's, there's another one that was outside the mountain bike hall of fame for some time. You know, I talk about that and how that came about. [00:14:20] Nick: Sure. So that's still there and that's, that's something that's sort of. You know, back in 2011, up here on the coast, we were trying to have a little put together a little fat tire festival to sort of open up the area to people from surrounding areas. Let them know that we have some trail riding up here. There was some stuff happening in the way of mountain biking and. Someone asked me to build some signage for this, for, you know, to put out there to advertise this. And you know, I'm a sculptor, right. I don't do flat stuff. So I've sort of scratched my head for a few days and wandered around the property. And, you know, I realized I had these two big tractor tires sitting here off of a John Deere tractor. And I thought, you know what? I'll just make a big bike. I mean, that, that works is advertising as well as anything. And at that point, I was riding, riding, riding Ibis mojo when their carbon full suspension bikes. And I thought I just modeled well model the big one after that. So, you know, I, I I took a photo of the bike and put it on an opaque projector. Proper scale on the walls here and to lay out of the frame and transferred that to a piece of plywood and cut that out and started building to that frame. And slowly went at it. So, and it was through working on this thing, you know, and I got to know many of the people over at Ibis and my wife, again, Amy, my wife, she contacted Scott nickel. And send him some photos, which I knew he was like, great. I got some bone heads out here in the woods that think they're making sort of an Ibis bike. Right. And because a photo shows two big tractor tires will apply with cutout out the frame and it's like, okay, what are these knuckle heads up to? And but she continued to communicate with them and, you know, send them photos as updates and, and you know, as I. Nearing completion in this thing, he thought, okay, maybe this is actually going to turn out to be something kind of cool and tail end of me working on. And it's called Ibis Maximus tail end of working on IVIS Maximus. Scott asked me one day, it's like, so Nick, what's your day job that, you know, you're able to do this. And at that point I just sent him a photo of the bean and he's like, oh, Okay, carry on. So anyhow, it was through making this big bike that I got to know Scott, and then then many of the other partners down there in Ibis, in Santa Cruz. So all of which are a great bunch of people. So I've been very fortunate to get to know them. [00:17:03] Randall: And how did it end up at the mountain bike hall of fame in fairfax, California. [00:17:07] Nick: were trying to figure out where to put it. It must've been Scott cause IVIS eventually bought it, cause it was sitting up here, not really doing anything. It was sort of lawn art and I believe it was probably Scott that was looking to place it. And, of course he knows all the old guard down there and, and Fairfax and. Joe breeze who runs the place is, you know, he, I believe he mentored Scott for a little while, early on, so they, they know one another. And so I think Scott set this up and, then segwayed over to Joe breeze. [00:17:41] Randall: So, as somebody who runs a small bicycle brand, I can just say like what a cool, that must be to actually have one of your bikes, especially something very iconic. Like that's a very distinctive looking frame. If some bozo in the woods, up in Mendocino county ever wants to make a, make a giant version of one of our bikes. I'd be happy to oblige, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, [00:18:04] Nick: Okay. I'll keep that mind. [00:18:06] Randall: So, all right, so now you're, you're in Mendocino. You've come back from doing the bean. You've cleared your lands. What'd you end up doing from there? [00:18:14] Nick: So back from Chicago foundations in, from the house by then, I mean, it'd been in maybe a couple of years by that point, came back and, and started building our house and studio and earnest. And our house and studio are actually two old temper frame barns that we dismantled back in Ohio. There were a hundred plus years old. They're all Morrison, tenon, wooden pegs, holding them together. Something we had. Going back in 2000 and dismantled in Ohio. [00:18:43] Randall: And when you say we, you mean like you and your family? Yeah. [00:18:46] Nick: yeah, Amy and my kids who were 12 and 14 at that point. And, and then Amy's parents and her brother came out for a week and I had a good friend of mine. That came out with his new girlfriend from Manhattan to kind a hand for a week. And then I had a buddy that, that we paid to come out there for the three weeks that it actually took us to dismantle this. So that was a great project. I had a lot of fun and for my kids, it was the first time for them being back in the Midwest and it's sort of familiar stomping grounds to me, you know, I'm not from that particular. We, where we dismantled the Barnes, but I am from Northeast Ohio and the lightening bugs were all off familiar. My kids got to see that sort of stuff and they got to play with fireworks for the first time. [00:19:29] Randall: And again you know, the space up there is one of the more special spaces I've ever visited. You have me up there, I think three, four years ago. And. The home is beautiful and that's one of the bonds. Right. And then the back section of the workshop it makes me think of Craig Cathy's. South of Santa Cruz or in the Santa Cruz area it's another one of these places where you just have tools and projects everywhere and it has a certain degree of organization, but a sufficient amount of, of, of chaos. And you can tell it's, it's like a place where a lot of experimentation happens. A lot of creativity happens. And just the number of specialized tools that you have many of which you've made, it's really, really cool to see. And you occasionally hold exhibits up there too, right? [00:20:10] Nick: Open studio from time to time. And I'm hoping to do that again this year. If COVID actually is settling down, you're going to open the place back up again. So got lots of new work going on and it's good to invite people in, let them see the work that I'm working on, but also let them see the space that it's actually created in too, because I think that that puts a different spin on things and it gives people a little more insight to what's going on. [00:20:34] Randall: Yeah. And in fact, there's a, you have a video on. your website now, remind me the URL for your. [00:20:40] Nick: So website is jnicktaylor.com. Instagram is a good place to see what's what's current and it's the same, same J Nick Taylor. [00:20:49] Randall: Well, the website does have this really nice video that shows you and your studio working on some of your pieces. And then there's a number of your pieces. Put on a. Pan so that you can get a 3d view of it and you work in different various materials, metal, and wood. You work on things that can fit. What are your smaller pieces and what are your bigger pieces and talk actually, lets you do that. Talk a bit about like the type of work that you do and the inspiration for it. [00:21:17] Nick: So I'm working in metal or wood. I rarely combined the two materials. So my studio is kind of divided up in half. One, ended up doing metalwork on the other end. I'm doing woodwork in all the pieces. These days are pretty much inspired by nature. You know, my act or environment, they don't necessarily make reference to any one, given any one given thing. But probably a lot of different elements of what one might experience if they were out in nature. So the work is pretty organic. The metal work I'm, I'm doing a lot of welding forging grinding to get the shapes. Their scale can range anywhere from about two feet in height to I'm working on something right now it's about seven feet. So some, you know, some stuff's tabletop and size. So other pieces are certainly floor standing pieces. Larger, you know, largest wood pieces. I mean, what pieces. I'll tend to be a little larger. You know, they stand for, you know, maybe four feet up to about nine feet. They also are very organic, but some of them are carved from single pieces of wood. And other pieces are a composite of pieces that are glued up and then carved back into. So all of them are very in a hands-on very labor intensive. I'm getting three to four pieces done a year, a larger piece, whether it be metal or wood can take me 10 months to a year alone to work on so that a lot of hand work. And I've just, haven't figured out a way to expedite that. You know, I keep looking, keep trying to figure out ways to move faster, but it always seems to come back to hand work. [00:22:56] Randall: Well, And just looking on some of the imagery, I've seen a few of these pieces in person, and there are pieces that are very clearly flowing with the contours of the wood that you're working with, but then there's also some vision that's imposed on it to some degree as well. Some of your metalwork, there's pieces that for me, looked like, contorted musical instruments and every angle tells a different story and evokes a different set of feelings and images . It's very abstract. And very interesting. Looking at your work, it really draws one in to explore it from different angles. [00:23:30] Nick: And that's really important. You know, when I was a kid and in school art school, one of the things that was hammered into me was, any given piece of sculpture should invite you to walk all the way around it and explore it. You shouldn't be able to stand on one side of it and know what's happening on the other side. So it should shift and change and draw you in and draw you around the given piece. [00:23:53] Randall: So let's bring the bike back into the conversation. How does the bike fit into your process or your day to day or week to week routine? [00:24:04] Nick: So, these days unfortunate enough to be in the studio four days a week, full time on interrupted. But I can only be in the studio for those four days. And then I'm like maxed out, I can't put any more time in, I've got to put my head in a different space. And so I spent two days on the bike, out in the woods. So here in Fort Bragg Mendocino area, we've got, we've got really nice trail system. And then we also have unlimited number of gravel roads. I mean, much of our mountain biking is in Jackson demonstration, state forest. If I'm not mistaken, they have a minimum of 300 miles of gravel road in there. Right. And then there are all these entities that bought up against Jackson's demonstration state forest. You have big river state park, you've got conservation fund. And then north of Jackson, you have lime timber now, lime timber and conservation fund land. You have to have permission to be on their property. But I think, conservation fund certainly gives that pretty readily and I've never heard of anybody having an issue on online timber and lime timber is 150,000 acres. Right? Jackson demonstrations state forest is, is just under 50,000 acres, big river state park is like 7,500 acres and conservation fund. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think there are 30 to 40,000 acres. In all of these places have gravel roads running around on them. Right. I'm sure you could chain this stuff all together and, and get up into use hall, which is about an hour north of here. And, and, you've got unlimited resource up there for variety and gravel roads as well. [00:25:43] Randall: And you're involved in a lot of the trail building up there as well. [00:25:46] Nick: That's my, the form of sculpting. Sculpting the landscape since I've been a little kid was a little kid and working out doors it's part of my core as part of what I really love doing. So I it's like I run a trail crew up here work in, and we're building, maintaining and building trails and Jackson demonstration, state forest. And we're doing that in conjunction with Cal fire and Cal fire are the Stewart's the managers of the forest. So we've got a 10 year relationship that we've developed with them and And it's going strong. You know, we've currently got some projects going. Everything these days is being hand dug though. Two years ago we had had a new experience with getting some trails machine belt and we got to two and a quarter mile trail machine built that we were able to lay out and, and. Through a sponsor, a one track mind, better known as OTM who funded it. We were able to build this new trail that connected a bunch of other stuff together and made for a better trail system. [00:26:46] Randall: So, for listeners, you want to explore this area, want to learn more about it and get a toe in the water, what resources are available, what clubs are available to get a handle on what you're describing, which is this massive amount of space that you could very easily get lost in and not necessarily find the best trails [00:27:05] Nick: So the trail work that I'm doing is, is under or with Mendocino coast, cyclists, where the local cycle group. I could be contacted through them or the club president, Dan sweet could be contacted and we can set you up, we can be found on Facebook under Mendocino coast, cyclists. That's probably the easiest way. I'm sort of thinking this through. I'm thinking out loud. And we have group rides, so that have been closed during COVID, but I think they're beginning to open those back up and people can join these group rides and they typically are happening three times a week, Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays. But we also, there's a list serve if you're a club member, this is probably the best way to get any sort of information is if you join the club you can get on a listserv and you can get all the chatter that's going on and you get notifications of rides. You can ask questions if you're trying to find, find your way around for the first time. [00:27:58] Randall: Very cool. so before we finish up, you've mentioned your wife, Amy and, you know, sounds like a pretty extraordinary woman to have supported, everything from buying a plot of land in the middle of nowhere, well, not the middle of nowhere in a very beautiful area, but, a good distance from the city to going out with you and the kids and, tearing down some barns and so on. Tell us about that dynamic. [00:28:21] Nick: Well, Amy's a pretty extraordinary person and she's been game to go on a lot of adventures, and are adventures that we've developed together. She's a brilliant person. She's very capable. She tolerates me. She has her own business, a land use permit agent up here on the coast. She's the go-to person. If you wanted to develop anything in the coastal zone [00:28:43] Randall: Clearly cares about the work that you do in doing things like, reaching out to people like Scott Nichols over at IBUs to get attention on your projects and so on. [00:28:51] Nick: Yep. [00:28:52] Randall: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to discuss while we're on the pod today? [00:28:55] Nick: I think that pretty well, does it, I mean, please, please visit the website and Instagram and let me know what you think. And if you happen to be up this way and Mendocino Fort Bragg area, give a shout out. So we love showing people around and the riding up here is pretty extraordinary. And if you want to, you know, if you like being out in the woods, doing mountain biking, you can, you can go for all day rides and not see anybody up here at all. You know, if you're riding during the week, which is pretty extraordinary to have the woods to yourself. [00:29:25] Randall: Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. Well, we will be sure to get some links in the show notes for this episode, for anyone looking to connect with you or to learn more about the Mendocino trail network. Nick, it's been great catching up with you. It's been some time and as I mentioned, I had been looking forward to it for quite a while and really appreciate you joining us. [00:29:45] Nick: Well, thank you very much for having me on Randall. And it says really nice and it's good to spend a little time with you as well. Don't see you often enough these days. [00:29:54] Randall: we'll try to rectify that later on this year, make a trip up the coast. [00:29:58] Nick: Alrighty you take care of man. [00:30:00] Randall: Be well be well [00:30:01] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Thank you for joining us. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Between Randall and Nick Taylor. Be sure to check out Nick's extraordinary work@jnicktaylor.com. Or on Instagram at Jane, Nick Taylor. We'll have links for these as well as the IVIS Maximus and cloud gate in the show notes. If you're interested in connecting with myself or Randall, please visit us@theridership.com. That's www.theridership.com. Join our global cycling community. Everything's free. And I'm sure you'll get a lot out of the interactions with your fellow gravel athletes and also your hosts here at the gravel ride podcast. If you're interested in supporting the podcast, you can visit us@buymeacoffee.com slash the gravel ride. Additionally ratings and reviews are hugely helpful. And with that until next time here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels

Molly Phannenstiel and Nathan DePuy are vanlifers who live in a sweet converted school bus and work for Outdoorsy. On this fun episode, Travis talks about his recent Salida Pole, Pedal, Paddle adventure with kids before getting into #vanlife fun with Mace, Nathan, and Molly.In This Episode: Check out our new title sponsor, The Feed Instagram | WebsiteBlue The Bus on InstagramNathan DePuy on InstagramMolly Phannenstiel on InstagramOutdoorsy on InstagramTravis Macy Instagram | WebsiteMark Macy on InstagramPast Episodes:Episode 40 - Josiah MiddaughEpisode 43 - Dr. Kevin Sprouse

Recorded live at the Life Time Sea Otter Classic, we sit down with Michelle Duffy to discuss the 2022 Life Time Grand Prix. One race down, five to go in this season long series across XC MTB Races and Gravel Races.  It will be exciting to see how it unfolds.  Episode Sponsor: The Feed (50% off your first order of The Feed Formula) Life Time Grand Prix Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Michelle Duffy Lifetime [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast. We're once again, live at the lifetime seawater classic. We're joined by Michelle Duffy. Who's the director of events, brand and content strategy at lifetime, and has been intimately involved in the lifetime grand Prix series. The grand Prix is a season long event series comprising of six lifetime events. Equally spread between mountain and gravel events that allow professional gravel athletes to battle it out over the year in a unique point series. I think it's going to be a lot of fun to watch and i wanted to make sure that we got michelle on just to talk about the ins and outs of the series and what she's excited about Before we jump in, we need to thank this week. Sponsor the feed. The feed is the largest online marketplace for your sports nutrition, offering the brands, you know, and love from scratch labs, Clif bar to Martine. Plus their athlete, customized supplements called the feed formula. Feed formulas. As I mentioned before, it's a daily formula individually wrapped that you have in a little box. She'd take out every day. And it gives you kind of the supplements you need as an athlete. The feed formulas are personalized supplements for athletes developed in part with Dr. Kevin Sprouse from EDF pro cycling team. He's the team doctor over there and it's following the same protocols that top athletes use. What I love about it is if you go over to the feed.com/the gravel ride, you can customize the individual supplements in your pill pack every day. So if you're needing a little extra recovery, or if you're an aging athlete, you can customize these for your needs in any given month. Right now gravel ride podcast listeners can get 50% off your first feed formula order. Just visit the feed.com/the gravel ride. These are best in class. Branded supplements, never generics. You get personalized recommendations based on your needs as an athlete. And it's all put together in a convenient daily pouch. So no more messy bottles on the counter. You can just grab a bag and go every morning. So I recommend you take a look at the feed. It's become my go-to source for all my hydration and gel needs. It's nice to have a single marketplace. That's really focused. On sports, nutrition. I often find myself in places where I'm just not really getting that focused offering. So I'm super comfortable recommending the feed.com for all your nutritional needs. Would that message behind us? Let's dive right into my interview with Michelle Duffy . At the lifetime seattle classic Michelle welcome back to the show. [00:03:07] Michelle Duffy: thank you, Craig. It's been a while. Yeah. [00:03:08] Craig Dalton: It's great to see you here at the sea Otter classic [00:03:11] Michelle Duffy: as well. And the flash is [00:03:13] Craig Dalton: this the kickoff to the lifetime sort of, I know it's the kickoff to the lifetime grand Prix. Is that your first event [00:03:18] Michelle Duffy: of the year? We've had a few road running events, but this is the first cycling event off-road event of [00:03:23] Craig Dalton: the season. And it's so exciting. Is this the biggest event in the calendar in terms of participation? [00:03:29] Michelle Duffy: Definitely. Yes. You know, we have. Sorry. We have road running events that are 15,000 athletes, but in terms of scale, 74,000 attendees here, 500 exhibitors, there's nothing compares to that. What year of [00:03:44] Craig Dalton: this yacht or classic is [00:03:45] Michelle Duffy: this? It started in 1991. So, [00:03:48] Craig Dalton: so I, I remember doing some of the races here, back in the mid nineties, on my [00:03:53] Michelle Duffy: mountain bike. Oh, I've heard some fascinating stories in those [00:03:57] Craig Dalton: days. Now the festival, I mean, Just this fascinating intersection of all the disciplines of cycling. It's hard to describe. I mean, if you, you name it, if it's on a bike, it's probably has an event here. [00:04:11] Michelle Duffy: Absolutely. I mean anything from e-bikes to gravel cross-country mountain bike, dual slalom, downhill and Duro. You name it. It's here. Kids races. We have a little bit of it all here. It's hard to tie it all together. Yeah. [00:04:23] Craig Dalton: Super cool. Watching the kids on the pump track, and it's just such a good family atmosphere here. [00:04:28] Michelle Duffy: And I think that was Frank Yohannan's goal. When he started the event really was how are we bringing families? And bike together. So often these bike races, it's hard to integrate your family into that experience, but here you can camp with your family. You can attend the festival, they can learn how to ride a mountain bike on the pump track, and you can participate in a race yourself. So I think. That's really how this started and what's made it so successful. We have families that have been here since 1991, and now they're taking their kids here and we were going to take their kids here. [00:05:02] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And the how many booths are here? The festival atmosphere. It's so unusual for consumers to get in front of so many manufacturers from the bike industry. Yeah. And [00:05:12] Michelle Duffy: vice versa for the, for the brands to have this many consumers here and there's over 500 brands. [00:05:18] Craig Dalton: That's amazing. Yeah. It's probably took me two days to kind of visit everybody across the booth [00:05:23] Michelle Duffy: after, and even still, like, you probably didn't get a chance to engage with them all. Yeah, [00:05:28] Craig Dalton: that's absolutely right. Interestingly, I talked to a couple of riders who were doing multiple events. They brought a couple bikes down, different disciplines, really making the most of their time here in [00:05:38] Michelle Duffy: Monterrey. Athletes. I heard some names today in the gravel event that participated in cross-country yesterday. We even have some pretty legit riders that took place in the e-bike race. So it's, it's always fun to talk to them and see what bikes they chose. Yeah. Uh, I participated [00:05:54] Craig Dalton: in am I, if I'm going to say it correctly, log Villa. Yeah, I, I should apologize in advance if I'm in articulate. Cause my brain is still rattled. [00:06:02] Michelle Duffy: I'm with you. It's been a long few days here, fun few days, but definitely zaps the brain. [00:06:08] Craig Dalton: It was definitely a fun event. And I would say I would characterize it as a bit unusual for the gravel races I've done because it was very single-track heavy, which I appreciated as someone, you know, obviously the lifetime produces a lot of events in a lot of different stuff. Was that intentional to kind of make it a little bit of a different type of event than some of the other events [00:06:27] Michelle Duffy: on the calendar. Thai the event, the overall experience of seawater. And it's important to us that all of our events around the country feel unique and also important us that all of our events here at seawater have their differentiators. So definitely was intentional. I know not all gravel cyclists have the best bike handling myself included. But it keeps it interesting. [00:06:50] Craig Dalton: Yeah. A hundred percent. So for the listener, it's very single track heavy course. Stunning views across the corridor. [00:06:56] Michelle Duffy: It's absolutely beautiful here. And after holding the event in October, in the fall, it was amazing to have everyone back together, but being back on the calendar at this time of year, when everything is green, the birds are chirping. The sun shining. Yeah, it's [00:07:10] Craig Dalton: stunning. Yeah. You get on these Ridge lines and despite how much my back was hurting, I was still appreciating it and enjoy it. Yeah. [00:07:18] Michelle Duffy: Yeah. It's it's great. [00:07:20] Craig Dalton: So I wanted to talk to you about the lifetime grand Prix. We haven't had anybody on the show talking about it yet. It's the inaugural race. Can you just give us an overview of the series and then we'll get into some more detailed questions? Yeah, [00:07:31] Michelle Duffy: absolutely. So the lifetime grand Prix comprise is of six of our events. Off-road events. Multidiscipline so, you know, cross country this weekend and we'll be doing. Out in Emporia next. We selected 60 athletes, so 30 men, 30 women who are competing for a quarter million dollar prize purse across the season. And the breakdown is we'll take their best five of six scores so they can choose to attend only five and assume the risk of finishing the others or we'll drop their lowest score. The point system's pretty. Easy to understand. And it's a sliding scale, 30 points to first place, one point to 30th place, and we'll score it that way across the season. [00:08:22] Craig Dalton: Gotcha. So many questions. W how, what was the decision-making process look like to decide, to have cross country mountain bike racing and gravel racing in the same series? [00:08:32] Michelle Duffy: I think it's just totally unique. There's Def there's mountain bike series. There's road. Series. I don't know if we've, well, we're starting to see, you know, the UCI coming out with the gravel series and that's not lifetime events are unique in that. They're all different. But we're seeing the same elite riders that are wanting to attend a mountain bike race, and a gravel event. And it's not for everyone. Some, some gravel riders are not interested in riding a mountain bike and they're going to come to our gravel events and they'll purchase participate. Those are scored the same way and all of our athletes will be treated in the same fashion. But when we look at our portfolio, it's like, wow, we, how lucky are we that we have the sea Otter classic and Unbound gravel and the Leadville trail, 100 mountain bike, race, and crushing the Tuscher in Toronto again in big sugar, gravel. And it goes on. And when we looked at our portfolio, we've been talking about this for a few years and I don't know if the timing was right. As we've seen more and more elites coming it's we've paused and been thinking like we're seeing mass participation grow. We're seeing these former world tour riders, former world champion mountain bike racers coming and participating in our events. And they're participating in our events because they want to stand on the same start line as the mass participant. It's good for them and their brand to connect with the consumers. They're enjoying the experience of standing on the same start line as the everyday rider and walking through an expo. These are things that they don't get to do in Europe. And, but what's missing is, you know, a few, a few decades ago, he lost a lot of faith in road cycling and that impacted fandom is the term that we're using internally of, of professional cycling in the U S. People don't care about those professional athletes, but in mass, we're not talking about cycling on ESPN on a regular basis. And I don't know if we'll get there, but we hope to we hope that this series helps north America reconnect with elite cyclists and these athletes start to become household names. And this is. I don't know, league of sorts. [00:10:45] Craig Dalton: I think it's a lot of fun. I mean, I think it pushes the rider's technical abilities. I've always been sort of griping about the ratification of gravel. So I love that these athletes are just going to have to find a different skill set, develop a different skill, set, understand how to ride a different bike. It's fun. Yeah. [00:11:04] Michelle Duffy: I mean, if you look at our. The crusher and the Tuscher is a gravel race, but the top riders wanted on a mountain bike last year. Right. So there, I think ratification can happen a little bit, especially when there's more elite riders. So there's more group riding. But the, the technicality of a lot of our courses it varies and it does require a different skillset [00:11:30] Craig Dalton: for the athletes who require. Just a lot of thought about the season, right? Preparing for an event like seawater and the cross-country style, mountain bike race is quite different than Unbound at 200 miles. [00:11:41] Michelle Duffy: Absolutely. And I think we saw a lot of our, you know, more traditional gravel cyclist road cyclist came here and they didn't come off the line the way a Keegan Swenson did. He was a man with a plan. Like he was out there to win that event and get his 30 points. But we did see a lot of other athletes. Came out here and we didn't have all 30 men and all 30 women. So they scored a few points, even if it was a, it was just survival. Consistency is going to be key throughout the season. And it was definitely fun to see some of our athletes that were really stretching themselves in a single track cross country event coming out. And they took the challenge on and I think that's really cool. It's they, they're not shying away from the challenge. Some falls out there yesterday, but that was part of it. And if any of these athletes knew what they were getting into, and I think it's something that excites them, the energy was really high. [00:12:33] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That's super cool. I didn't get a chance to see the coverage yet from yesterday. I know who the winner is. I'm not going to put you on the spot for race commentary, but how would you characterize, like how the race unfolded? I know in a lot of mountain bike races, you got to get to that single track [00:12:46] Michelle Duffy: first. Yeah. What's funny, is that both the men's and women's race unfolded almost identically within the top three. So coming off the line, they they're on this racetrack Laguna Seca, and they hop on. Pretty wide dirt fire road and climb a hill. And it's just under a mile before they hit double track. So you could see I was in the lead out Mazda vehicle. You could see them fighting for position, especially the traditional mountain bikers. They wanted to get to the single track first, knowing that their bike handling skills were better. And they, they rode, it was pretty decided who was going to be. In contention about 10 riders deep yesterday on both the men's and women's side. It worked its way down to three writers, deep on both sides with only maybe six miles to go. The women definitely had a bigger group of five there that it was anybody's day. And then Mo Wilson put it down, climbing a hill and it was a risky move for her, but she. Came you just kind of watched everyone else come apart. And she was the strongest woman out there yesterday. [00:13:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I talked to her a little bit yesterday and she said that last hill made her, made the race for her. [00:14:02] Michelle Duffy: Yeah, it definitely did. And it was kind of amazing. We have flow bikes doing live coverage and they got it all on drone on the broadcast. And you could just see the race coming apart and the men's men's wear the same. It was, I don't know if you've talked to Keegan. But as he hit that climb, he went and Russell, Vince or Wilde said the same thing. He just, he gave it his all, but he couldn't stay with Keegan on that, [00:14:22] Craig Dalton: that, that climb has been part of this Jada classic for 30. As I approached it, I remembered it from decades [00:14:29] Michelle Duffy: ago. Well, w R M cross country mountain bike race was UCI sanctioned before this year and it, but it wasn't prior to that. And it used to be a longer loop cross-country style, mountain bike, race, and we wanted to get back to that. Let them let the riders see beautiful Salinas valley. And I think that. They got to experience a little bit more of that and got those traditional climbs in those traditional views. And we only saw them, it was a two lap race. So we just saw them at the halfway [00:15:00] Craig Dalton: point. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it was a really fun course too. Yeah. [00:15:04] Michelle Duffy: As the writers. Yeah. Loose and loose at times, but overall and fairly good. [00:15:11] Craig Dalton: There's a lot of people hitting the whoops and saying, wow, that kind of stuff, which is great to see. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the selection process. Not necessarily like how it went down, but you seem to have selected a lot of diverse writers. I know we've got former Olympians on the women's side. Like Andrew and Amber Neven who know, not known for mountain biking or gravel racing at all, but [00:15:38] Michelle Duffy: coming right [00:15:38] Craig Dalton: off the Olympics. Yeah. Yeah. Which clearly, like she's a phenomenal talent. And then as I know, you've got some track people on the men's side as well, some of the traditional mountain bikers, some gravel riders. So what, what did that look like? And it must have been fun, hard, but. [00:15:54] Michelle Duffy: It was hard but fun. That's a good way to describe it. We weren't sure what was going to happen in the inaugural year. Like, are we going to get enough writers to fill the field? Is it going to be fast amateur riders and just hitting the refresh button on the application and watching the names that float in. We had over 200. Elite professional cyclists, that applied to be a part of the lifetime grand Prix that does make the selection process really challenging. And I mean, we're learning a lot, but this felt like the best way for us to do it this year with no year over a year learnings, yet to do an application, let's find out who is interested, who is telling us that they want to take on this challenge. They want to. Our goal again, is to grow cycling. Who's going to be a great ambassador for that. And we looked at race resume and those that we thought would be really competitive, like who truly has a challenge, a chance to be in the top 10 throughout the season was really important. And then just who is going to inspire people to follow the sport. But I think we have a lot of really amazing humans that do a lot of amazing things off the bike to. [00:17:07] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think it's going to be really fun. It's so cool that you have flow bikes doing the live coverage. So regardless of where you are, get on flow bikes, you can watch the series unfold. And I think we're going to see some of those just human interest stories about, you know, who's skilled on the mountain bike who hate, you know, who's having counseling and I [00:17:23] Michelle Duffy: hated mountain bikers had their day. And, and that was amazing to see. I mean, some of the lesser talked about names within the lifetime grandpa. We're finishing in the top five. And I loved to see that. I don't think there was that many surprises in the top three. But, but there also, there was no one's been talking about Alex wild and he's been due to have his day and it came for him yesterday. He wrote an amazing event. Like I loved seeing that. I loved seeing Evelyn dong, who finished in fifth on the women's side. She hasn't really been talked about as a favorite of the lifetime grand Prix. And she was up there with the women all day. Yep. [00:17:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting transitioning eight weeks from now to Unbound 200 mile race. Definitely different skillset. But I imagine if you've got a top five here at. You've got a little extra motivation in you. Maybe like you didn't feel like you could be competitive at the 200 mile, but now you're saying, well, I've got a bunch of points in the bank and I got to go [00:18:16] Michelle Duffy: for it. Exactly. And we think, I think there's consistency is really going to be important. And as long as you score a bunch of points at the front, Showing up and Unbound is so interesting because the finisher rate is low. But I think now what's going to make that event interesting is there's more motivation to finish. So you might be having the heck of a day out there and normally pull the plug. But getting to the finish line is super important for you because you can still finish in the top 20, because inevitably we're going to have some writers that are going to DNF, and we do have some writers that are opting out of it. Yeah. [00:18:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's really interesting. I imagined as a professional athlete, just trying to figure out how to manage the diversity of races that you have to tackle. And I don't know if we mentioned this on air, but you can drop one, one event through the season. [00:19:10] Michelle Duffy: Some, some athletes are choosing to drop one event. Some actually were injured leading into sea Otter. And so that's their drop of this season. And. Then some are going to do all six and they get to drop their lowest performance. You have Pete Stenton unfortunately broke his wrist yesterday and he rode, he finished it in 21st, yesterday. So he got some points and he's hoping that this is the event that he can drop. Definitely equipped to be a top contender throughout the season, but it was to his benefit that he attended the event yesterday and still got something. Yeah. And [00:19:45] Craig Dalton: the, the Leadville 100 is on the docket as well. Right. So another just sort of unique, you know, has its own skillset required. High, high elevation. [00:19:57] Michelle Duffy: Yeah. One could argue. That Unbound gravel 200 is the most intimidating event because of the mileage. But then you look at an event like the Leadville trail, 100 mountain bike race, which is at high elevation and requires a ton of climbing. Yep. [00:20:11] Craig Dalton: Super intimidating for any athlete tackling that [00:20:13] Michelle Duffy: one. Although it's interesting because crushing the Tuscher is the event prior to that. And there's a lot of climbing at that event and it is also at elevations. It's kind of a good prep leading in crushers, the only mountain top finish in gravel and there they spend most of their day climbing at that race. [00:20:31] Craig Dalton: That's what I've heard. What's the, what's the time difference a gap between those two events and it's exactly a month. Okay. Yeah. And lentils after [00:20:40] Michelle Duffy: crusher. Yeah. So the order seawater obviously is this weekend. First or second weekend in April and we have eight weeks until Unbound, gravel and Emporia. And then after that we have six weeks, so crusher four weeks, and then we get on this four week cadence. [00:20:57] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's going to be interesting to see the climbers, how they fair and Leadville versus Unbound. Just fascinating to me the whole thing. [00:21:06] Michelle Duffy: Yeah. I, I'm really excited to see some individuals that are just so. Talented within their discipline, have the opportunity to rise and have an amazing day like we saw yesterday, but then also excited for these athletes that are just going to be chipping away every week, landing themselves in the top 10. And and who that will be like, who from yesterday are going to be consistently in the top 10 for the rest of the [00:21:32] Craig Dalton: season. Yeah. And I think that the existence of this series and all the capital on the line. Is also providing a lot of motivation for athletes that didn't get selected this year to show themselves and say, Hey, you missed out on me. Yeah. Look at me. [00:21:44] Michelle Duffy: And, and I, I love that. I mean, it's, it was really hard to make the decision and especially knowing, you know, you have to put your business hat on because we are hearing from some athletes that this has changed their year. I mean, it's, we're occupying a lot of their schedule, but. They've been able to sign sponsors that they hadn't prior. And we've gotten that feedback from multiple athletes, which was part of, part of the goal is to help them be able to do this as a full-time job, but as we're making the selection, you know, that those that you're not selecting are not getting that opportunity. And we had do have a handful of athletes that are going to be showing up at a lot of these events and saying, Hey, actually I did deserve to be here. I'm finishing in the top 30. All of the events within the lifetime grand Prix. And that's amazing because this is not a one-year activation for us. This is a long-term long-term things. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, [00:22:40] Craig Dalton: I mean, you still have the opportunity to win any one of these races, regardless of whether you're selected for the lifetime [00:22:45] Michelle Duffy: grand Prairie. Exactly. Yesterday, it just so happened that the top three were all also lifetime grand Prix athletes, but I don't foresee that happening at Unbound gravel. I mean, you have someone like Ian Boswell, the raining. And Lauren D crescendo. They're not doing the lifetime grand Prix. But I expect to see them performing really well at Unbound gravel. Yeah. You've [00:23:07] Craig Dalton: got people who focus on the Leadville 100 as their jam. That's the [00:23:11] Michelle Duffy: one they want to win. But I think that's, that's, what's going to help keep it really honest because there's going to be varying goals at these big events. So. We've started to see lots of front of pack riding in a pack and coming down to a sprint finish, which is also amazing because this gravel community is about building community and comradery. And, but now that we have both all this money on the line, do the lifetime grand Prix and other athletes that are not participating and maybe have their own incentives with their separate brands. Seeing how the races unfold this year. I, I am predicting will be different because every point matters for the grand Prix athletes and those that aren't in the grand Prix. I have something to prove. And so I don't know. I don't know if we'll see as much. PAC riding sleep miles [00:24:06] Craig Dalton: in the days, coming up to the event here, you signed up a pretty big sponsor. [00:24:11] Michelle Duffy: Yes. We now have a presenting sponsor in Mazda. They we've been talking with them since late fall of last year and they just launched an off-road vehicle, the Mazda CX 50. And as they were doing their research, they, they view the cyclist as a target consumer for them. Okay. They also just, I mentioned earlier, amazing humans doing amazing things. That's what we've been spending all of our time, talking to Mazda about that's something that they want to be a part of. They're not interested in the super salesy tactics. They're more interested in like content reconnecting and connecting with, with this consumer base. And they're really passionate about the outdoors. And [00:24:51] Craig Dalton: is it a sponsorship just for the [00:24:53] Michelle Duffy: season? They are the presenting sponsor of big sugar gravel now. They're signing. It's a two or three-year deal. I shouldn't know that, but my brain's not firing, but they're on for multiple years with us. And then they've also become official sponsors of all of the events that are in the lifetime grant. But yeah, that's [00:25:09] Craig Dalton: super exciting. Yeah. It's just great to see money coming into the sport to support a series of this [00:25:14] Michelle Duffy: nature. If you read any interviews from chemo, Seymour, our president of events early on, he actually called out auto is one of the industries. Departed from supporting cycling. After just, you know, a few decades ago of a lot of brands are moving themselves from this sport and Mazda has done some things locally in California in a smaller scale. Just I think outside of that region, people weren't really aware that they've been slowly starting to get their feet wet in dirt and mountain biking. And to see an automobile company come back and believe in us and believe in this series. It says a lot for us as well. Like this is, we're doing it. Like this is going to be big. We have a really big brand that believes in us, our events, our athletes, our participants, our community. Yeah. It's super [00:26:06] Craig Dalton: validating and great to see. Thank you so much for all the time. I know it's been a [00:26:10] Michelle Duffy: super long week. Thank you. I'm glad we could connect and chat and talk in person better than zoom. [00:26:17] Craig Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. And I look forward to just watching the series on full. Again, a reminder to the listener. You can watch these events on flow bikes. You can follow them on social media. There's all kinds of great way to get access to what I think is going to be a great journey and a lot of fun stories throughout the year. Particularly as we have two or three events behind us, we're going to see who's in the lead who needs to catch up. Does it change their race tactics to try to get a win when they're behind? Yes, [00:26:45] Michelle Duffy: so much fun. I'm excited to see how everything [00:26:49] Craig Dalton: unfolds. I, for one hope that it comes down to big sugar. I [00:26:53] Michelle Duffy: do too. Let's keep it. Interesting. Amazing. [00:26:57] Craig Dalton: All right. Get some rest. Good to [00:26:58] Michelle Duffy: talk to you. Thank you. Thanks Greg. [00:27:01] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. I hope you enjoyed learning more about the lifetime grand Prix series from Michelle. I know as a fan of the sport, I'm excited to just watch and see how it unfolds. Next up for racing is Unbound. And I think that's about seven weeks out. At this point and you can go over to lifetime's grand Prix website to see the current standings of athletes and see what's coming up next in the calendar beyond Unbound big, thanks to our friends at the feed for sponsoring this week's episode of the gravel rod podcast. If you're interested in connecting with me, encourage you to join the ridership, just visit www.theridership.com. That's our free global cycling community. You can connect with myself and hundreds of other athletes from around the world and just. Chat about your love of gravel cycling and all things bikes. If you're interested in supporting the podcast, ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated as well as any financial contributions via buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride. Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels

This week we sit down with Board Certified Orthopedic Specialist, Kurt Roeser from Ability Physical Therapy in Colorado to discuss recovery strategies for gravel cyclists. We dig into the things we can be doing at home to recovery faster along with the various products that have recently been developed to aid recovery.  Episode Sponsor: The Feed Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Kurt Roeser - Recovery [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. So as we start out this week, let me ask you a question when you're done with a ride. What's next? Do you just hang up the cleats, put the bike away and go onto the next thing, Or do you take a moment for self care? If you're like me, it's often onto the next thing with Naria thought for what? I just put my body through. This week's guest is Kurt. Roser. A board certified orthopedic specialist and physical therapist at ability physical therapy . Kurt is an experienced distance runner and cyclist. And brings a wealth of experience to the field of recovery. Before we jump into this week, shall I need to say a big thank you to this week, sponsor the feed. The feed is the largest online marketplace for your sports nutrition, Offering the brands, you know, and love from scratch lab to cliff. Plus their athlete customized supplements called feed formulas. I can say, what I appreciate about the feed is that they've got all the brands that I've come to count on as a gravel cyclist. I can't tell you how many times I go to the grocery store and try to pick up something, but it never does the trick. I'm just not getting the diversity of brands that are cycling specific and that's where the feed comes in. I can get whatever I want whenever I want. I talked a little bit about the feed formulas last week, but I want to drill into it a little bit more. As I've been consuming them on a daily basis. Feed formulas are personalized supplements for athletes developed in part with Dr. Kevin Sprouse. Dr. Sprouse is probably best known in cycling circles for his work, with the EDF pro cycling team as team doctor, he follows the same protocols he uses for top pro athletes to develop the feed formulas. And the feed has made them customizable and available to you. You can shop@thefeed.com slash the gravel ride and save 50% off your first order. When you visit the feed.com, you can get personalized recommendation based on your needs as an athlete. The feed formula comes into convenient daily pouch. So no more Massey bottles on the counter. Everything you need is in a simple packet for you to consume every day. Remember simply visit the feed.com/the gravel ride and get 50% off your first order of the feed formula With that said let's dive right into this week show. [00:02:42] Craig: Hey, Kurt, welcome to the show. [00:02:45] Kurt: Hey, Craig, how's it going? Thanks for having me, [00:02:47] Craig: Yeah, it's going great. I'm excited to dig into this conversation about recovery. I feel like half these podcasts are guided by my own personal interests. So I just hope the the listener likes to join me on this journey. [00:02:59] Kurt: for sure. Yeah. So it is all about learning, learning for yourself and helping some, some other folks at the same time. [00:03:05] Craig: Yeah, exactly. I'm appreciate you giving me the time to pick your brain. Let's start off with a little bit about just your background and how you got into your profession. And then we'll, we'll dig into some questions. [00:03:15] Kurt: Yeah, definitely. So I kind of grew up being a, being a distance runner. I ran college it in track at the university of Florida. And then like a lot of runners, I got injured a lot. So, I w me to want to be a PT. And then when I was in PT school, I got into cycling a lot and some triathlons. And so, yeah, kind of developed a, just broader enjoyment for endurance sports in general. Yeah, so now I, I am a physical therapist working in an outpatient setting and work a lot with runners and other endurance folks whether it's cyclists or, or skiers all, all sorts of fun stuff, just kind of helping people get back out there. And then, yeah, I still like to run like competitively. So, my marathon vest is a two 17, so I got to run in the. USAA marathon trials a couple of years ago. So hoping to get a couple more good marathons and in me, and then just a transition to more, just fun, fun diverse stuff more biking and, and all that good stuff. So, [00:04:13] Craig: Nice. I imagine being in Colorado, you've got no shortage of patients bringing their bodies in damaged from the great outdoors and their endurance athletic pursuits. [00:04:24] Kurt: Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Overuse injuries. And then I mean, cycling tons of yeah. Impact injuries, falling, you know, shoulder stuff. Yeah. There's a, there's lots of good ways to hurt yourself doing fun things here. So, it is yeah, good for good for me. But I think I like to think I do more good than I take away from society, so, but [00:04:44] Craig: I imagine if you're getting people back out on the trails and the, and the the slopes, you're doing a service to the citizens of Colorado. [00:04:51] Kurt: Yeah. And it's, it's, it is really fun for me to like help people that are motivated to get back to doing you know, whatever their activity is or sport it is. And if, yeah, people really love doing something they're super motivated to do their, do their PT whether it's coming in for manual therapy or do their exercises or strengthening or, or whatever it is. Yeah, so it's a, it's a fun place to practice for me, for sure. [00:05:14] Craig: I wanted to open up a conversation about recovery from bike rides. I mean, we all, every listener of this podcast, and as I mentioned earlier, a lot of listeners are doing big gravel events, a hundred mile gravel events, or the training for those types of events. And every single one of us has come home, had a little food and then had our legs start to get really solid and heavy. And I just thought it'd be. To talk to someone, a professional and understand what's actually going on. And then later in the conversation, let's talk about what we can be doing about it. [00:05:46] Kurt: Totally. Yeah, That's something that like, Everybody is going to encounter encounter soreness. And yeah, it's such a, it's kind of like a hot topic, like recovery. I feel like the past, you know, five to 10 years is getting a lot more spotlight and we see what the pros are doing in various sports. And I think we all are. You know, here are the best ways to optimize their own training and lifestyle and stuff. So, yeah, it's a, it's a really kind of hot topic now, but basically like the physiologic, like kind of like process of, of soreness is a very normal response to kind of a newer type of exercise that you're doing. Or maybe not a new type of exercise, but an increasing training load. So, we see this in the early parts of summer where people haven't. Biking a lot, or haven't been doing whatever their sport is in particular, but then you start doing a lot more of it. And even though we think we're being pretty like gradual with it where you usually are, our mind is biting off more than our body can choose. So to speak. So soreness is just a result of doing something that you're not used to, and then your body's adapting to it. And in that, in that process, you're going to feel some, feel some soreness. And one of the interesting things that I always remember from exercise physiology, class, the professor saying like the only way to prevent muscle soreness is previous exposure to the same stimulus. So you can't ever prevent yourself from, from getting sore, but you can just kind of like expect to get sore when you do something hard for the first time or, you know, bike longer than you have in awhile. And then know that like, if you do that same thing again, you're not going to be as sore from it. Kind of like an up and down process. [00:07:24] Craig: that makes sense. You know, if I think about my, any given week, you know, I can go out and do an hour long training ride and, and. 1200 feet of climbing and don't feel sore at all from that kind of effort. But when I get out on the weekends and I add, you know, five, six times that amount of climbing, those are the days in which I come home, but I know from experience over time, if I'm training for an event, if I've gradually built, I can then go out and ride, you know, 4,000 foot of climbing ride and not be sore and save that soreness for the 8,000 feet climbing. [00:07:58] Kurt: totally. Yeah. And I also want it to differentiate between like, muscle soreness and then like tendon or joint soreness. Cause that's a really common thing that people ask about is, and. And how to differentiate that from like an So like, I think delayed onset muscle soreness who are all like pretty familiar with like, you do something hard and then you're sore from it for a couple of days. So that processes partly. Kind of like mechanical at the cellular level. So, you're actually getting some microtrauma to the cells that are causing your muscle fibers to contract upon one another, basically these sliding filaments. So you actually like creating some micro tears in those, those fibers, which sounds bad, but it's it's. Body knows to adapt to that stimulus. So if we didn't have that, we wouldn't have that positive adaptation that we're looking for so that we get faster, it can bike like longer or, or whatnot. [00:08:53] Craig: Now the terror is getting repaired by the body as you rest. [00:08:58] Kurt: absolutely. So, so when we perceive soreness and when we feel soreness, Definitely linked to some sort of like inflammatory process, which there, we used to always think inflammation is bad. We got to get rid of it, but it's actually like the way that our body signals to bring in like, you know, new protein and all these like building blocks to repair that tissue. So, soreness is actually like a sign that our body is adapting to that and it just is uncomfortable in a transient manner for us, but it's how our body. You know, working through that cascade of that inflammatory process and ultimately getting stronger from it. So that's kind of like the more mechanical aspect of it. And then there's also like a, kind of more of a chemical side of it. So like we've all heard the term like lactic acid or more correctly just lactate and hydrogen ions. Like when you're doing really high intensity exercise, your muscles get more acidic. And so that can not can create some of that soreness feeling afterwards, just from those metabolites being. in, in ourselves, in places that they aren't normally there. So, so that's kind of the two big components of, of muscle soreness and, and some of the things that we can like know about and, work through mentally, but also there's some tools that we can use and and things that we can do to kind of try to limit that and speed it up a little bit. [00:10:15] Craig: Did, did the muscle groups react differently when you're doing short, intense intervals versus longer endurance type? [00:10:24] Kurt: Yeah, so definitely. So, the shorter height, higher intensity efforts are going to be the things that really get the you know, lactate and hydrogen ions, like, to high levels in your muscles and probably in fairly specific places. So, if you're really pushing, pushing the power, you're going to feel it in those. Muscles that year quads, maybe your calves, if you're, if you're going uphill. So you're going to feel that in pretty isolated ways versus like a one. Kind of like easier day where you're just out kind of cruising around, but maybe you're out for a long period of time. Then I think people are going to be more likely to get soreness in more of like your postural muscles. So your shoulders, your neck, your back, your arms, like things that are like supporting your, your posture. And, I've heard on the, on the show, you've talked numerous times about like bike fitting. And so that's where. Being comfortable and being set up nice on your bike is really important to make sure that you're just kind of like optimally using those, those postural muscles and not overstressing certain areas and just kind of setting yourself up to be comfortable and enjoy your Injury arrive, which is probably the most important thing. But then I think where people get the most sore is. Kind of kind of those race situations or group rides where you're going for a long time and at a higher intensity than you're used to. And I think that's what a lot of us kind of do. We're kind of in that maybe weekend warrior sort of a, a situation where we're doing maybe an hour during the week, and then maybe double that Triple that on the weekend and more Verdun. So th that's when you're going to get just globally sore and a lot of your, your cycling muscles and that's going to be from that kind of acidosis and mechanical breakdown. And then just as you fatigue out your, your slower Twitch fibers, you're gonna start to rely on the fast Twitch fibers that aren't used to working as much, and they're gonna fit. Faster and get more sore because they're just not used to working, but again, part of like a broader, good adaptation process I think so kind of that good soreness. [00:12:23] Craig: Yeah, well, first off, guilty as charged. I'm often one of those people who goes out and tries to do things I have no business doing. I think that's a bit of the gravel cycling mentality, right? Is this like, you're going to have a lot of challenges in front of you and these long events, and you're going to push through it. When, when a rider is taking themselves beyond, let's just call it their, their fitness or what they've been able to train to for a particular event. What kind of damage is being done at that point to the body. And does the body just sort of naturally give you the feedback? I mean, we've all sort of shut down on a climb or cramped in a long event and the body's screaming at you. Hey, you can't do this. You need to take a break. Can you just talk about like what what's going on in the body at that point and how should we be reacting? Obviously, we, we have strong mental desire to complete the events, but that may exceed what our bodies are capable of at that point. [00:13:18] Kurt: Yeah. So that's, that's really hard hard spot as a, as an athlete to be in, I think. And, and I think it's really important to know that like when you're feeling that like, subjective. Discomfort or like, you know, muscle work or just overall fatigue setting in like that's our, our brain is trying to tell us that we're doing something that we are, is like kind of outside of what our brain perceives we can do. But. Very, it's almost impossible to exercise yourself to death or to actually do any damage to any, to your tissue. So that's one thing that we should be very confident that we're not going to damage our, our muscles by cycling for, even for a long period of time at a very high intensity. In other sports, like, you know, like CrossFit or an ultra running, like you hear people getting robbed in my analysis, which is where you're doing so much damage to your muscles, that it that those muscle proteins get back into your. Bloodstream, and then eventually to your kidneys, and you're basically creating like kidney failure, which is a medical emergency, and that does happen. And I've seen it in CrossFitters and ultra marathoners, but kind of more from that centric type of loading reaction. So in, in cycling, you're, you're, I've never heard of that happening in cycling. So, Yeah. so we can be pretty confident that we're not going to really truly like damage anything per se. But it should be. One of those things, like a pick, choose your battles, you know, or like live to fight another day. So, and I think that's, it means different things to different people, but if, if it's worth it to, to really push it during this particular race, like just know that you're going to be really sore for for a few days. And it's gonna like, kinda mess with your next week of training, but ultimately you're going to be fine from it and you're going to adapt to it. So. [00:15:04] Craig: Yeah. I think if I think back to my iron man days, I can remember just basically not being able to walk down the stairs after doing an iron man, having to hold on the railing because I just, I couldn't support my body weight going down. [00:15:17] Kurt: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, so it's but I guess maybe better answer your question. Like, like there's no point in like that we should ever be worried. Push ourselves too hard under most circumstances, obviously like within like reason. But like at the end of the day, like we just got to remember like we're out there to have fun and and keep the bigger picture in, in in mind too. And like, you could have the perfectly designed training program and ramp up very gradually and you're still going to do stuff that's going to make you sore. So yeah, it's kind of a unavoidable. [00:15:49] Craig: How should riders think about it? So let's say you go for a massive ride on Saturday and you still want to ride on Sunday. And you're obviously you're waking up sore a little damaged from the day before. Any concerns going out the next day or does the body just tend to give you the information you need and regulate your abilities based on that soreness? [00:16:10] Kurt: Yeah, so. It's definitely gonna be good for you to go out and still get a ride in the next day. Like a nice like recovery ride. So obviously like back-to-back hard days are going to be challenging and you're just going to accumulate more fatigue essentially. But but yeah, it's definitely like good for you to get out and get some easy, easy spinning in and probably even help you recover faster. So, there's yeah, there's a reason that like, And during sports, like we're able to do it on like most days. And it's because. In between those harder efforts, like it's really good for you to like, just have a, have an easy recovery day. So, so Yeah. that's definitely, definitely good. And another really interesting thing is like, even if you, your quads are wrecked and you've like, we did like, some imaging and we saw that, like you had all these. Tears in your microfibers. Like you're not going to make that any worse by by pedaling through it the following day, you're just going to have less power output. So you're, you're not going to be able to like, you know, work as hard as you, as you would if you didn't have it, but you're not going to do anything bad by any means. So, definitely good to get moving. [00:17:13] Craig: Yeah, that makes sense. I often feel like, you know, if I do a really massive day, I, I sort of, I call it the athletic hangover or the next day I've and I think it's probably part dehydration, but the body's sore. I ended up with a headache. You know, it's just, just overdid it. [00:17:28] Kurt: Yeah, totally. And that's Yeah, that's like a bigger thing that like I realize With people more and more recently, it's like, you know, I always think about like the physical side of things, like orthopedically, like, you know, muscle muscles and joints and tendons and all that stuff. But like our body's pretty good at telling us, so like how it's doing. So if we can like learn to suck to listen to the more like subtle signs that our body's telling us, like, can we get better over the years of, of listening to that? Like in it help you maybe adjust. Your workouts that you had planned for that weekend and still go out and, and ride, but just like, like, oh man, I'm just not feeling very good today. I'm feeling a little off. So I'm just going to take it easy or I'm going to still do my, the intervals that I had planned, but just like dial it back a little bit. So yeah, just like successful athletes and people that have better longevity in, in, in the sport. Or people that are good kind of that like listening to those more subtle signs is what I've found with working with, with people at like pretty elite levels. so [00:18:27] Craig: we're at we're, we're certainly in the heyday of the ability to, to have to have data points to back that up as well. You know, whether it's a device measuring your HRV or just basic heart rate tracking, I think you can really know a lot about yourself and unlike the athletes, maybe of the, of the nineties who might push through it now, I think most coaches are saying, you know, it's better to back off and understand that you've just pushed it too far and live to fight another day, rather than pushing through the training. If your body's saying, Hey, this is a hard note today. [00:19:00] Kurt: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Just keep the consistency, like over time approach and, and know that like what you're doing like this week, you'll be better for like, you know, three months down the, down the road, like everything is just like compounds on itself. So just like keeping, keeping that consistency and that long-term approach, you know, weeks and months and years. And. And eventually you'll be able to do, do more than you thought you'd be able to do. So. [00:19:25] Craig: Yeah, you were, you were mentioning sort of there's muscle store, Innes and fatigue, and then there's a fine line between that next stage of actual injury. Are there things that we should be looking out for to know, like, Hey, we've maybe crossed the line and we need to pay a little bit more attention to what's going on. [00:19:42] Kurt: So I think anything. Well, like pain-wise like in, in muscles or tendons or joint, like, you know, anything that's transitioning towards like a sharp pain or like a nervy sort of sensation where it's numbness or tingling or anything that just like is getting worse as you're going from a pain perspective. Yeah. Like it's you want to like, not push through too much of that. So we like four out of 10 on a, just a pain, visual, analog scale is a good kind of cutoff. Like, so if you're, if you're doing something and it's like, you're like a four out of 10 or it's pain, that's like not really tolerable or getting worse than it's usually like a good idea to like, you know, shut it down. Or Go easier and kind of make your way, make your way home. and then, you know, there are like more like medical emergencies. Like rhabdomyolysis that I mentioned like that people are, you're going to notice, like, basically, like you will be completely, like, you'll be unable to go on. And like, people like collapse and it's like an ambulance call. So obviously like using common sense about that or like anything like with your heart just Yeah, [00:20:50] Craig: Yeah, [00:20:51] Kurt: pay attention to your vital, your vitals. If your apple watch tells you you're having a heart attack, then you should probably call an ambulance. [00:20:59] Craig: yeah, exactly. Don't use your pigheaded endurance athlete mentality to power through absolutely everything. Just some of the hard stuff. [00:21:06] Kurt: Yeah, exactly. [00:21:07] Craig: Transitioning a little bit. Now we've talked a little bit about, you know, what's happening post ride, if we're sore and, and what to look out for in terms of injury, are there things we should be doing before we get on the bike that would help our muscles that day and, and after the ride. [00:21:24] Kurt: Yeah. So, I think this is kind of like big picture stuff. Like the, the things that we can consistently do over over time to help in a preventative way are kind of like just nailing down the basics that I think we all probably like know about, but like, you know, diet and sleep and overall life stress. Yeah, like making sure that your nutrition before, before rides and during rides and after rides is, is, is good and adequate. And then making sure that your, your bike set up is good. Your bike fit is good. So in terms of specifically like pre pre ride like. just making sure that you've got enough fuel and hydration. And like my kind of preference for a warmup is just do the activity pretty easily for the first, you know, 10, 15, 20 minutes. So, I'm somebody that like, I, I like to just, you know, get out and start going pretty, pretty easily and let my body warm up that way. Sometimes people will prefer more of like a dynamic warmup. So maybe you spend five minutes doing some, some stretches for parts that, you know, are tight hamstrings or quads or hip flexors or, or back. So a little bit of dynamic stretching is probably a really good idea, but but yeah, [00:22:36] Craig: Yeah, I spoke to some about that dynamic stretching idea. Just the idea of doing a few, few motions to get your body kind of understanding what's going to come when you throw a leg over the bike. [00:22:47] Kurt: Totally. And then also like even some like spinal extension, so bending your, your back backwards, just gently, like, all these things. Should you be like gentle around? Not trying to force it, but just like, we're going to spend a prolonged amount of time, like in a very similar position for our spine. So just doing some of That like, even like the opposite motion of you know, getting some, some back extension or some thoracic rotation in there. So, yeah, any sort of, of movement and kind of being intentionally vague there because one of the issues that I think we have with with warmups or recovery is like, there's so much information out there and there's so much stuff that you could do. so the best thing to do is, is do something that is. Easy for you to do consistently and that you'll actually do. And that you kind of, to some extent, enjoy doing or get some satisfaction out of doing. So I think there's a lot of room for individual variability in a, in a warmup. But the big thing is you nail the basics and kind of just be consistent with that. [00:23:42] Craig: That makes sense. The bigger area I wanted to talk to about is really the post ride recovery and the things we can do. I mean, I often get off the bike and, you know, obligated to do something immediately with the family or my son. I need to jump on it and I don't pay any attention other than maybe having a drink and recovery drink after I get off the bike. But in an ideal world, what are we doing? That's going to help promote the healing of those micro, micro tears in your muscles. And anything you can do to feel better. Maybe talk about it from, Hey, if you only have a tiny amount of time to, Hey, if you really want to go do everything you can, these are what you can do. [00:24:20] Kurt: Yeah. Yeah, Totally. Yeah. And so that's the that's the hard thing is like, we, we want to spend as much time doing the thing that we want to do. So, we want to get that extra mile and on the bike or do that extra of blue on the, on the bike. And then we come home and like, yeah, I have to go straight into the shower and go to work or like yeah, take care of the kiddos or, or whatever gets your day going. [00:24:42] Craig: I always, I always tell my wife, like the greatest gift I have is when I have a two hour ride, but a three hour one. It just feels like such a luxury because it's usually I have a two hour window and I'm going to do an hour and 59 minute ride. [00:24:56] Kurt: Yep. That's so that's so true. And I think we're all guilty of that. It's like, like I know that I could get back 10 minutes early and I could do some, some stretches or I could do those strength exercises. My PT told me to do, or I could make myself a better breakfast and not, you know, eat in the car on the way to work or whatever. But yeah, at the end of the day, like we want to do What we want to do. so I think. I think if it is like, just building in like five minutes, honestly, like, if you can consistently do that, like, maybe not even after all of your rides, but after like a hard effort or your long ride on the weekend. Just say like, I'm gonna, like when I get off the bike, I'm going to. Five minutes for myself. Just kind of like relaxing, you know, get your post ride nutrition, go and get, get, start to get rehydrated. I think that stuff should definitely be a priority, especially as we're getting back towards the summer months here pretty soon, hopefully. But and then yeah, for me, like that ritual should include like some sort of like soft tissue, self mobilization, or maybe just dynamic stretching something [00:25:57] Craig: mean? What, what is that self, what you just said? I didn't understand what that meant. [00:26:01] Kurt: Oh, sorry. So, yeah. So yeah, soft tissue mobilization is kind of a fancier word for essentially like massage. So, soft tissue is, you know, muscle or tendon or a fascia any of the, the softer structures in our body. So, that's like, a really big really big thing in the kind of recovery world is like, we know that. Elite athletes. They're going to get off the bike. They're going to have an hour long massage. And there is something to that because everyone still does it if they have the time and the money and the luxury to do that. but there's not a ton of like, like great like scientific evidence as to why, like massage or soft tissue work, like how it actually like physically. Helps us, like there's a lot of like theories at the tissue level. And, then at the person level as to why that like helps us recover. But so, so most of us, like, you know, we're not going to have the time to do that especially every day. So if you can just spend five minutes, like while you're at your car, before you drive back home or before you even like come in the house, you know, just have have foam roller or RA or something like that. Where you're going to hang the bike up and just like do it in your routine. And so basically saw self soft tissue mobilization to get back to that is using something like a foam roller or the RA or, or the stick or some, some other tool to, massage your muscles yourself. So I think we're all familiar with that. [00:27:27] Craig: And, and how D how deeply do you need to go into, like, would the stack or a foam roller, like sometimes, you know, when you're laying on the foam roller, you can put all your weight on or only partial weight. I think the masochist in us often like thinks like, oh, you gotta push it in really hard in order for it to have an effect. What is that right balance? It's just a matter of getting that motion across the muscle or does it need to have some, some power into it? [00:27:52] Kurt: Yeah. So that's like, I think you could ask that question to a room of, of PTs or other kind of similar field and you might get you know, 10 different answers, but basically the, the benefits of, of that are the only reliable thing that we know that massage is doing is creating a central nervous system. Relaxation response. And indogenous dopamine release, which basically means like, you know, dope means are our endorphins, our feel good. Endorphin. So we're creating some sort of relaxation response globally from our brain down to our muscles. So, we can like see that like with certain types of MRIs and, and brain MRIs. So. And then the other kind of theories are like, we're, we're moving around water. We're kind of flushing out our muscles where maybe loosening up the different fascial layers between muscle and skin and getting those to glide better. There's like the trigger point release theory. So a trigger point is a tight muscle not, or, or abandoned the tissue into your pushing on that and in restricting blood flow. And then you're getting it. Release that way. So my interpretation of all that is like, we know that we're getting our brain to relax our muscles. And then on top of that, there's probably some of those local tissue level responses that are also at play too. So. Long, long story to that question is like, it can be kind of up to you. Like what you want. It doesn't have to be extremely painful. And it, in my opinion, I don't think it should be super painful, but like it, you know, it's okay if it's like uncomfortable, for sure. Especially when you find those tight spots in, in the muscles that you've been, been working pretty hard. so I think it should be like pretty firm, but it doesn't have to be killing you. And if you're really sore, then it could be really gentle. So it could be kind of whatever you feel like you need. [00:29:42] Craig: So I'm curious, and I'm certainly not asking you to pick either or, but the first thing you mentioned was a self massage or foam rolling. As if you only had five minutes. A lot of times I've thought about like, oh, I get off the bike and I want to stretch, like stretching might be my go-to. Would you, would you say the foam rolling self massage first. And then if you have more time later and stretching after that, [00:30:05] Kurt: Yeah. I honestly I'd say some variability in there is probably good. Depending, it's going to be person to person dependent. So, like there's a lot of days where I feel like I just want to grab the, the RA and just like, you know, roll on my, my quads and my calves and my hamstring. And that's kinda all I need and I don't feel like I need to really do any, any stretching. But then Yeah. there's other days where like, know the, the opposite might be true. So, I think it's good to like, just get in a routine of spending that time, doing something. And honestly, like if we designed a, a science experiment where we like had group a, do one and group B do the other it probably would come out like fairly similar in a long-term kind of like study It makes a lot better sense to me and my brain to like actually kind of get in there and like use use some force to like, get things like moving around at the, at that local level. And that's gonna also get like that nice, like central nervous system, like pain modulation, just like get everything to settle down. so I think that the massage kind of stuff is, seems to be more More beneficial in my mind, but it one of those things, again, like if we only have a couple of minutes, like just pick something and do it and don't get bogged on this, the specifics. [00:31:14] Craig: Just, yeah, just make sure you're maximizing those minutes, whatever you're doing [00:31:18] Kurt: and that's why [00:31:18] Craig: a little bit more, [00:31:19] Kurt: I like something that's portable. So like, if you're you know, if you're driving to a parking lot or a Trailhead before you start your ride, then Something that you can take with you. Like You're keeping it in your car or. And you're in your bag with your snacks for post ride or whatever, like just, yeah. Pull out the, the real recovery RA and like that you can do it, like sitting at the back of your, your, your car before you even like, get, get in the. Getting the car and drive away. Like, that's what I try to do because I know like once I get home, I'm not going to do it. But you see, I mean, in Boulder we see people with that foam rollers that they're Trailhead and all sorts of things the massage guns, like there's all sorts of things that are out there. And I think finding the thing that works for you is it's totally fine. [00:32:04] Craig: Yeah, it certainly seems like the recovery industry over the last five or six years has exploded. And we've we referenced the roll recovery, our eight a couple of times already, but we haven't really talked about what that is. So we set the stage by saying, Hey, foam, rolling. Great thing. You can do. Pretty simple. One tool. The RA is something that is similar in terms of its efficacy. It's just approaching it in a little different, little different way. [00:32:32] Kurt: Yeah. Yeah, totally. In the, oh, you have the adjustable version too. I [00:32:36] Craig: Yeah. So what what I, what, it's hard to describe to the listener, right? But it's basically, you know, it's, it's got what, what is like almost four rollerblade wheels and a spring loaded that you can adjust and you can bring it to the outside of your leg and it'll roll up and down, making it maybe easier to use while you're sitting versus a foam roller, which may require you to be laying on the ground. [00:33:00] Kurt: Yeah. Yeah. Sitting or standing. And honestly, I, when they first came out with this product, I. Being a PT, like I, I convinced people to exercise all the time and I thought like, oh, well, I mean, people are, if you were going to choose to spend something that's more expensive than a regular, you know, $20 foam roller, I think most people are just had picked up the foam roller and I've been really surprised. Like I, you know, having had one of these in the clinic and just like having people try it, like people love it because it's simple, it's easy. And I think even. Getting down on the ground is a barrier for some people. And, and you also just can't you can't get as much pressure, like in certain places where you need it, you know, your calf or like the lateral part of your quad, like new your it band. So, yeah, I think, I think it is a pretty useful tool to have something that can be handheld and that you can kind of like adjust the pressure by either like turning the dial to make it harder or pressing a little bit harder. With your hand on that one, one spot and just kinda like run through places that are that are feeling like you worked on. And then when you kind of find a spot that's sore, kind of just seek and destroy, you know, and you're just like find that tight spot and, and press on and gets released. So, so [00:34:09] Craig: Yeah, I do find it. I do find it a little bit easier than the foam roller, to be honest, again, just being lazy and maybe sitting around watching TV, I can take the the RA and just run it across my legs and feel like I'm, I'm doing some of the work. [00:34:22] Kurt: Yeah. And the, the kind of the rubber grippiness is good. Like, I think a lot of times what people like from manual therapy that like I do is like, we're kind of putting a little bit of stretch on that fascia and we're, we're getting things in, things are Elise in that way. So I think there's something to be said for like the kind of the grippiness to, of the different, not inserts that they have, that you can kind of swap in and out. So, Yeah, that's, that's one of my go tos, I think [00:34:46] Craig: the other, the other big thing that's exploded, I think has been the percussion massage tools that are out there and a number of different brands offer that type of product. Is that, is that kind of doing a similar thing just in a more targeted way? Or how do you think about those devices? [00:35:03] Kurt: Yeah, I think those are any of those are pretty cool as well. Yeah. Everybody's everybody's asking me about those these days, and those are great for those harder to get areas where like, the, the glute meat or TFL, like a lot of times people have tightness there. so it's going to be like a little bit more pinpoint and essentially a similar effect in that it is going to create this again, like top-down. Relaxation of, of the, of the muscle that we're trying to work on. But it just doing it by like hammering at it really, really quickly. And it's something like for me, I like it in certain areas. And then and then I just like the more pressure in other areas. So if you can have both, then it's like one of those things you can, you can have both, but again, like something that's easy to use and and portable, which is nice. [00:35:52] Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like over the years, I've just sort of subsequently Rico acquired more and more of these devices [00:35:58] Kurt: Oh, yeah, [00:35:59] Craig: I haven't, I just don't do it enough. That's the main problem. But again, some of these are really helping me improve the amount of time I spend on my, on my muscles, which they're appreciating [00:36:09] Kurt: Yeah. Totally. [00:36:11] Craig: the other one I wanted to just, just tease out with you and understand a little bit better. You know, when we see the pro tour riders on the road, In their, in their team buses after the races, I often see them in these air recovery boots. And I'm curious, like just what's going on with those. [00:36:28] Kurt: Yeah. So, I'll be honest. I've only used those a couple of times. Like when they were pretty new, when I was like in college who had some of those in the training room and basically it's compression and I believe it's greeted and compression. So it's kind of the idea Is mechanically pushing pushing fluid back, like approximately towards your Towards your torso. So helping you kind of queer lymphatic fluid or like are kind of low pressure venous system. So that's the idea is it's kind of like helping to flush you're flushing your muscles out. So for me, me personally, the, the juice isn't worth the squeeze with, with those I being a PTM bias to encourage people to do some sort of movement. And, and those are kind of the opposite of that. It's saying like, oh, well, why don't you do. Sit here and then this will help you help your muscles. And in reality, I think if you probably just went for a walk or chased your kids around the playground for that same 20 minutes, I think that might be that might be the same benefit there. [00:37:26] Craig: Is it, am I understanding you correctly that it's attempting to do something different than the foam rolling or massage gun would do? [00:37:32] Kurt: I think so, because those are going to be just more global. It's just pressure on your whole, whole leg. So it's in at the same time. So on both at the same time, they're just pushing, pushing fluid up to your lymphatic system to be kind of like flushed in and cleared out. I haven't seen any data or anything on, on, on the ethicacy of that, but like, a lot of people still use them, especially in pro situations. And I feel like everyone I know in Boulder has has one and and people love them. So I think there must be something, something to it. But but yeah, the idea is it's it's pushing fluid away from your, extremities, which in theory should be, should be helpful. So I think that could be a helpful to, [00:38:12] Craig: does your body process? So if it's pushing it away from your extremities, into your, your kind of core, does the body process it through the core more efficiently and get it out of the body? [00:38:22] Kurt: yeah, exactly. So basically like any time. Like our lymphatic system and our venous system is a low pressure system, will our arteries are high pressure. So, if that's why gravity has an effect on DEMA and swelling. And so if somebody, you know, was is, has surgery or screens, if you sprain your ankle, that's an extreme case of there's a lot of. Swelling in that limb. And so, you know, if you elevate your leg above your heart, while you're laying on the couch, then gravity is going to help that kind of like trickle down sort of torch your organs, where that's going to be like filtered and then put that fluid gets put back into your bloodstream eventually. So it's the idea is it's basically like, compressing and bringing that fluid to be recycled faster. Yeah, that makes sense. [00:39:11] Craig: Yeah, it's super interesting. Super interesting. Cool. Well, I appreciate you giving us like this overview and I like the fact that we've left, left the listener with this idea of like, you know, there's a hierarchy of things you can be doing to support yourself post ride. And the very basics are carve out just a few minutes of your time. Work on a little foam rolling or self massage as at a bare minimum. And then beyond that layer in these other modalities of repair, if you have time, but the important thing is just build this into your routine. [00:39:45] Kurt: Totally. Yeah, And then and just have it be something that you can do consistently and then also just make sure that you're, you're covering the basics with yeah. Your nutrition and sleep and life stress. And we should all be doing some strength training, like twice a week, even if it's not our thing I'm doing. Some just general strength training for the legs and arms can be whatever you want, or it can be very specific to biking is also really important for our bodies and longevity in the sport and moving in different ways. So I definitely think that's an important part of recovery, even though it's kind of on the, on the front side, you know, it's not gonna help you after you're sore, but it'll help you from getting sore by doing things if you're, if you're stronger going into that. [00:40:26] Craig Dalton: That's great perspective, Kurt. Thanks. And thanks for joining us. [00:40:31] Kurt: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me fun to talk with you. [00:40:33] Craig Dalton: Cheers. That's going to do it for this week's broadcast big. Thanks to the feed for sponsoring the show. And remember, simply visit the feed.com/the gravel ride to get 50% off your first order of the feed formula. And a big thank you to Kurt for joining us. I hope you learned a lot about recovery. I know, I sure did. There's definitely things that I need to integrate into my routine. If you're interested in connecting with me, I encourage you to join the ridership. Simply go to www.theridership.com and join our free online community. If you're able to support the podcast, simply visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride. Until next time here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels

This week we sit down with rising gravel racing star, Brennan Wertz from the Pinarello Scuderia team. Brennan has been tearing up the Northern California gravel scene in early 2022 with wins at the Grasshopper and Shasta Gravel Hugger. Episode sponsor: The Feed Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Brennan Wertz - Pinarello [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. Let me start this week with a question. Did you come to gravel, cycling from another sport? This week's guest certainly did. Brendan worked, spent his high school and collegiate years at the front end of another pack. The USA rowing pack. Brendan road for the national team, as well as Stanford university. But injury led him back to cycling a sport. He discovered in his youth here in the town of mill valley, California. We're going to dive into his background and what's led this pro to be at the front end of the field in 2022. Before we jump into this week, shall I wanted to extend a big, thank you. And welcome to the feed. A new sponsor here on the gravel ride podcast. I've been enjoying getting to know the team over in colorado from the feed and have been really impressed by their commitment to bring together not only products but education around this idea of human performance. Today. I wanted to talk to you in particular about one category of product, their feed formula. As you know, on the podcast, I've been kind of investigating through my own lens. The idea of nutrition and performance and what I need as I've aged as an athlete. The team at the feed has been working with Dr. Kevin Sprouse. Who's the head of medicine for ETF education for cycling team. In their athlete, daily formula, they've designed a supplement. That's the right combination of micronutrients that can offset decline in energy production. Help avoid burnout and speed up next day recovery. What I found super cool about the product that in addition to the base product, you can have optional ad-ons. So, if you're looking for additional immunity or more joint support, you can add those into the packets. Regardless of what you add into the package. We're not talking about a hundred bottles sitting on yourselves. The feed formula is delivered in customizable. Many sleeves. So each morning you pick one of them out. You rip it open and it's got all the supplements organized for you in one simple place   [00:02:27] Craig Dalton: The feed is running a special offer on the feed formula. Right now, you can get your first order at 50% off. By simply visiting the feed.com/the gravel ride. Again that's the feed.com/the gravel ride for special 50% off your first order of feed formula. With that business behind us, let's jump right in to this week's interview. brennan, welcome to the show. Thank you so much [00:02:53] Brennan Wertz: for having me. It's good to be [00:02:54] Craig Dalton: here. It's a rare instance that I've got someone in my home in mill valley. So I'm stoked to have this conversation face to face. [00:03:00] Brennan Wertz: Yeah, me too. No, it's a, it's a real pleasure. [00:03:02] Craig Dalton: We always jump into the conversation by learning a little bit about your background. So growing up in mill valley, when did you discover the bike and where did it go to from the. [00:03:12] Brennan Wertz: Uh, really early on, it was a vehicle that I use to get to. And from school, just down the road here, I went to tan valley elementary school. And I would ride with my parents when I was first getting started and, you know, kindergarten or the early days ride to and from school. And then later on in elementary school, it just became more of a fun toy, something that I could go out and explore with and go with my friends out in the Headlands. You know, rip around Mount Tam on our mountain bikes. So, uh, pretty quickly I got into mountain biking, more descent oriented, I would say I would go and do Downieville with some friends every once in a while, and even went and did some of the downhill. Shuttle access riding at north star one. [00:03:49] Craig Dalton: Nice. Did they have the Tam high school mountain bike program at that [00:03:52] Brennan Wertz: point? They did. Once I got into high school, it was when I was I kind of got swept into rowing and that required my full-time focus. [00:03:59] Craig Dalton: How did that happen? I'm super curious to dig into your rowing career, because I think as I mentioned to you before I've met so many rowers that came into cycling and with this huge engine. So I'm just curious to dig in a little bit that, so your freshmen in high school, it sounds like you started. How did that come to pass? I think of rowing as like a European or east coast sport. So out here in the west coast, how did you get drawn into. Yeah. [00:04:22] Brennan Wertz: I think a lot of people have that traditional view of the sport being very much like east coast, Ivy league or in, you know, England and in central Europe. But the west coast has produced a lot of really high quality rowing talent. There are a lot of top schools on the west coast here. I went to Stanford. That was a good brewing program. And then there was university of Washington and Cal Berkeley both had very, very good programs. And I think a lot of it just has to do with the climate. You know, it's the same with riding a bike around here. We can train all year round with rowing. We didn't have to deal with frozen water. So, I think that gives the west coast a big leg up on, on its competition and on the, you know, the, the school. Uh, east but more specifically how I got into it. I, my parents were both rowers in college. My dad grew up here in Morin as well. Uh, and he wrote for what was Redwood high school back in the day when he was there. And it's now the Marine rowing association. So I rode there and in high school they introduced me to the sport. They definitely. Pressure me to get into rowing. But they just introduced it to me. And they were actually kind of hesitant for me to get into rowing because it's not the best spectator sport travel, these odd places for this weird, you know, oblong body of water to go and do these races that, I mean, it's kind of like watching a road race. You're standing on the side of the road or on the side of the lake and boom, the race goes by and in an instant it's over. So, but they were encouraging and I went and, and tried out my freshman year and quickly found some success and found that the mountain bike riding that I had been doing in the years prior had help set myself up for some success there with a lot of leg strength and leg power and just generally good cardio. And so that was kind of a smooth transition. Like I said earlier, the, the mountain biking I was doing was much more descent oriented. And so I had to kind of put that to the side because I knew the two didn't really compliment each other. I was going out on the weekends and riding my mountain bike and you're trying to do more jumps and just rip down single track. And that wasn't really providing me the cardio benefit that I needed for training for rowing. And it was more of just a risky, fun hobby. So. But that to the side and hung the bike up in the garage for a number of years, what is it [00:06:28] Craig Dalton: like when, when you get into the sport of rowing what are the workouts look like and how long are the events that you would typically train for? [00:06:37] Brennan Wertz: The events vary by season? So in the fall, the races are five kilometers long, which is roughly 18 to 20 minute effort. And then in the spring, And that's usually kind of like a time trial where you're racing against the clock and you start on roughly 30 minutes staggers or sorry, 30 seconds staggers in the spring. You're racing six boats across head to head and it's a 2000 meter, two K race. And that's about five and a half minutes. And so it's. Really a VO two effort. It's really intense. It's just that horrible combination of an extended sprint, basically where you're sprinting out of the gate. And then you settle into your rhythm for a few minutes and then you're sprinting again at the end. And you're just red line the whole time. So to prepare for that, you spend the winter and fall kind of building your base similar to how you would for cycling, where you're just doing longer, steady state rows. And you're you know, just getting the heart rate in that kind of mid tier zone. And then later in the winter, you start building the intensity in and working that VO two engine a little bit more. And then as you get into the spring, then it's just sort of fine tuning. But I would say that there's also a really, you know, it's a huge, it's a really important team swore like the team element is huge in the, in the sport of rowing. Not only is the training really important, but also the comradery, but then the technique like matching with your teammates and really being on the same page as you go through the motion of the rowing stroke, you have to be really in synchronized motion for it to click and for it to [00:08:02] Craig Dalton: work. Yeah. I've heard that technicality of rowing is just really important. Like you've got to have good technique. You can have all the power on the. And if you don't have synchronicity with your teammates, it's a complete disaster. Yeah, exactly. So going into, you know, what would an endurance rowing workout look like? Is that like sort of, you know, we think about you probably go out for six hour rides routinely when you were training for rowing, would endurance be an hour long, workout, [00:08:26] Brennan Wertz: more maybe 90 minutes, two hours. So often what we do, uh, when I was at Stanford, what we would do is we'd go out on the bay in the morning when the water was calm and we'd do maybe two hours on the water we'd mix in some interval. The nature of the bay is that we had this kind of channel that we would run as a shipping channel in the port of Redwood city, similar to in high school, we wrote in the, of an air Creek. And so you have this. Two kilometer stretch of water. And so you can't ever really get a super long effort in because you're turning the boat. And so you have to stop and turn the 60 foot boat around in the body of water. And so it takes a minute or two to spend the boat. So you can't really get that super long, extended, steady state effort in unless the water is extremely calm. But I did spend one summer in Hanover, New Hampshire training with the national team there, and that. An amazing place to train in the summer because we're on the Connecticut river and you could go as far as you want it. So we would just take off and head north for an hour and then spin once and then come all the way back down. And so then it was really, it was really eye opening for me to see the physical benefit you get from that kind of like real long endurance. So to come back around, I guess I would say that the morning sessions were usually on the water. And then in the afternoon we would do a land session that was either. Some, not usually a ton of weightlifting, but some combination of like indoor bike and rowing machine and just kind of cardio and cardio and or fitness testing. [00:09:49] Craig Dalton: Cool. Thanks for allowing me to drill into that. Cause as I said, you know, knowing rowers always come out strong now it makes sense. There's a lot of work that goes into it. So you were competing at a pretty high level with USA rowing at the end of your career. What led to you kind of leading the sport of rowing and coming back to the sport of cycling. [00:10:06] Brennan Wertz: Yeah, most recently I was on the U 23 national team in 2018 and we spent the summer, uh, first the selection camp for the national team was held in Seattle. So we were training in Seattle. Uh, once I made the cut for the national team, then we spent that summer, uh, traveling around Europe racing. We went to Raisa elite world cup. Uh, we were the U 23 national team, but we were racing up at the elite level at the world cup in Switzerland. We raised that, and that was when I started to have some really challenging rib pain and back pain. So ribbon back injuries are quite common in rowing and effectively. What it is is your ribs are separating and kind of stress fracturing through the rowing motion. Just that repeated motion over and over again. And it was on my front and back, and it just caused a ton of pain. And, uh, it was really difficult for me to sleep or laugh or cough or sneeze, any of those, those things cause a lot of discomfort. And so from there, I, we had a training camp after we were in Switzerland at the world company, Italy for 10 days, we went on the training camp and I couldn't row it all that entire time. And so that was meant to be our final tune-up before we had to Poland for world. And I was basically sidelined that entire time and riding this indoor spin bike and the eight man boat was going out with seven guys and there was just like, I could see them out on the water rowing and there's just this one empty spot. That was where I was supposed to be sitting. Or they would have an assistant coach fill in who hadn't been rowing in two years. So yeah, it was kind of a grim situation and I had to just patch it together and I had a lot of KT tape and, you know, daily, or, you know, I was meeting with. The team, physical therapist, multiple times a day to get massages and get taped up and everything. And so really just hanging on by a thread through the end and went to worlds. We had a great team, the program that we were, uh, Uh, part of that year was a very, very high level, a lot of really talented athletes there. And we ended up coming away with the win at worlds and we set a world best time. So on paper, everything was awesome. But I had even had food poisoning during the event too. So I just kept getting all these, you know, these blows along the way that Just kind of felt like maybe I should take just, you know, take some time on my body, recover from this and heal. And, uh, so I took some time off from the sport and I came back home and was in really good shape, but I wanted to, and I wanted to keep that going. I wanted to remain fit and exercise, but I needed a break from my body from rowing. And so I grabbed my dad's road bike and just started cruising around Moran a little bit. And. Really quickly, you just found the group rides and found the culture and the scene here in Marin, and really loved going out on those rides. And when did a couple of rides and had just come back from winning a world championship, I thought I was, you know, in this amazing fitness and everything had been going, going. Training was good. And then I go on my first couple of group rides and I just get obliterated. I get dropped I'm way out the back. I remember having to almost get off my bike overall. I Alpine down, I'd never really been, been out there and done that loop and had no idea where it was or how much further I had to go. And, uh, it was really humbling and I loved it. I was like, wow, this is just such a cool experience. I get to go out and explore these new places and not to say that rowing training isn't inherently fun. I dunno, maybe it isn't where the act of riding the bike is just, it's inherently so much fun and it just brings so much joy and you're out seeing these beautiful places. And for me, that really quickly. Pulled me into the sport. So that was, was that 2018? That was, yeah, that was like fall of 2018. [00:13:28] Craig Dalton: And at some point you must've had to come to the conclusion that your body or your mind, or you just didn't want to do rowing anymore. Was it, was it the body that kind of was telling you, you can't go back to the sport? [00:13:40] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was the body for sure. But then I also had an insert. I'll have this other voice in my hair. Like, Hey, look like this alternative is also awesome. Like it's not like you're just walking away from something. Cause I think if I had just left the sport wrong and then had done nothing, it would have been really hard, but I had this other option that was amazing. And I was really enjoying. And at that point in time, the bike wasn't something new to me. I knew I knew the bike. I had come to appreciate it. I spent, you know, early in, earlier in college I spent a summer living in Germany doing an internship and I brought a mountain bike with me and I took the summer completely off from rowing and. That was the first summer where I rode the bike consistently and actually thought I was training on my bike and I'd go out and I'd just ride. It was a cross country bike. And I would rip through this, uh, German mountain range in central Germany, near Frankfurt and tons of single track and beautiful gravel roads. Uh, I wasn't racing at all. I wasn't really looking at any numbers. I had Strava on my iPhone. But I wouldn't really, I wasn't geeking out on numbers or data or time or anything. I would just go out and ride and really enjoyed it. And I had the opportunity to load my bike up a couple of times and go on these bike packing adventures that summer. And so that I knew at that time, I was not in a position where I could just walk away from rowing. Cause I, uh, I was on a scholarship at Stanford. I knew that I, you know, I wanted to go and sort of see that through. And that was my main sport at the time. But I did always have in the back of my mind, like, Hey, that's summer in Germany, you know, that bike packing trip through the black forest. Like that was pretty amazing. So, kind of the inverse of a lot of people have a lot of people come into to cycling and gravel racing. You know, it's very common to see people come from the world tour from pro road, racing into gravel and into this adventure side of cycling. But for me, it was actually that's really what got me into cycling and just riding a bike at all in the first place was, was that adventure cycling. Sleeping in my hammock, in the woods and packing all my belongings onto my bike and then riding on to the next town. And so anyway, that was always in the back of my mind. And then when I, when I had the time sort of the forced time from that injury, then it just became this, you know, it became much more realistic for me to focus more on, on the bike. I [00:15:42] Craig Dalton: ended up joining the local powerhouse team Mike's bikes eventually, and did a fair, fairly heavy season on the road to pre pandemic. Is that kind of the way it played out? [00:15:53] Brennan Wertz: Yeah, I spent that whole summer or that whole, the whole spring seasoned racing as much as I could. I was just totally in love with it. I wanted to get as much experience as possible and then. I made it from CalFire Volvo to cat too. And it was just really enjoying the road scene and decided I wanted to try to go and race in Belgium, uh, just because that seemed like really cool cultural scene. They love cycling there. There's tons of racing opportunity and I just wanted to go there and see if I could make it and see if I could kind of make the cut and figure it out. Unfortunately, got hit by a car the first week I was in Europe for that summer. Uh, and so I was sidelined for that summer and I didn't get to race at all. That was in 2019. But then when I returned in the. The fall of 2019, I had sort of had a year of like, all right, this is, I really, I'm still loving this. I still really want to focus on the bike. And that was when I got bumped up from the Mike's bikes development team to the elite team and decided I would continue to focus on road cycling, kind of going into what became the pandemic year. [00:16:48] Craig Dalton: And I believe they gave you a little bit of leeway to try some gravel racing, [00:16:53] Brennan Wertz: right? Yeah. Yeah. So they, they were, you know, Creative team. It's a creative bunch of guys and they all like riding gravel too. And they, you know, they saw the potential there with a lot of these events. And so they supported me to go to a couple of different gravel events and I went and did BWR with them. And so, you know, now last year in 2021, I had this awesome opportunity to go attend a few of these big gravel events, both with Mike's bikes. And then also with above category where I had started working. And then that's really. What got my feet wet in the gravel scene in the gravel racing scene, I guess I'd had a gravel bike for a couple of years, or, yeah, I guess a year, two years at that point. So living in Murren, there's an, there's an awesome amount of gravel riding. It's kind of everywhere. It's really easy to access. So I'd been riding a lot of gravel, but I'd never really done an erasing. And so then I had that opportunity to go do attend some of these races and then just totally fell in love with it. [00:17:43] Craig Dalton: And as you looked into this season and I presume at some point you had to make a decision, do I want to stay on the road? You know, continue with the Mike's bike squad or look for another deal. Obviously, domestic road racing has its own challenges economically. What was your mindset in terms of choosing the gravel route? And how'd you come to that decision? [00:18:02] Brennan Wertz: Yeah, I think last year I had a really amazing learning experience and that the month of June, I spread myself way too thin. I started the month off with Unbound and that was my first big high-profile gravel race. And we built. A very, very specific custom mosaic gravel bike for that event with above category. And I really enjoyed going through the process of designing this bike specifically for this one event and, and specking it out with all these amazing components. And that was when I really began to see the power of building these relationships with sponsors and working with partners that you really value as an athlete, and that the brands really value as an athlete. And that there's this really awesome mutual. Respect for one another and understanding that like, Hey, we're going to do something really cool together with this project. And so we put together this amazing bike. I had the opportunity to go out and race. I had a blast building the bike. I had a blast at the event. I ended up getting a 10th there and that results sort of opened up some doors to go to a few other events throughout the summer [00:19:00] Craig Dalton: under the MC spikes flag at [00:19:01] Brennan Wertz: that point still for the most part under the Mike spikes flag, that specific event at Unbound I did as a marketing project with the both category. And then later on in the summer, I did Steamboat again with above category, but for the most part, yeah, all my other races, it was with my bikes. Gotcha. You had to come back to that month of June. I did Unbound. And then right after Unbound, I went to pro road nationals and race status about 10 days after finishing Unbound, I was on the start line at pro road nationals in the time trial. And that was an event that I've been preparing pretty specifically for. So I had this sort of weird split in my training where I was doing these epic long endurance rides, going up into Sonoma, Napa riding in the heat to train specifically for the Unbound effort. But I was also during the week doing intervals on my TT by. Knowing that a week after Unbound I'd be racing the pro nationals time trial. And that was a big, I wanted that to be a big focus of mine, the time trial, but just the way that the calendar worked, it, it just, it was too short of a window for me to recover fully from Unbound and then prepare for the time trial. So I can remember what I got. I think I got like 15th or 16th and I was, I was pleased with it, but I knew like I could have done so much better. My power target was 50 Watts under my power target and, uh, at pro nationals. The following weekend, I went and raised elite nationals because Mike's bikes is an elite and amateur elite team. And so we got to race up at the pro road nationals, but then we went to the elite amateur nationals, which is kind of like our national championship at our level. And by that point I felt like I had recovered a little bit more. I made a few minor fit adjustments to my time trial bike felt like I was flying on the TT bike. Uh, ended up getting second in the TT and nationals by I think, two seconds. So a bit frustrating, but I felt like I, you know, I hit my power target, everything kind of clicked and it all, it all worked. But. I still felt like I left that event. Like, I don't know. I just spent these two weeks doing these, these national championships on the road and the racing superintendents, and it's super fun. And it's really awesome to push yourself like that and be in that environment around all these, you know, like a pro road nationals, you're racing next to people. You've watched on TV for a number of years and you're like, oh, I'm right here next to them now. So it's a super cool experience, but you know, I finished those races and it just seemed like it was kind of looking around. They're just everyone just after the race kind of went, did their own thing. They went their own separate ways and no one was really talking to each other. It wasn't, it just didn't seem like all that much fun. I was like, what's going on here? Like, [00:21:20] Craig Dalton: that's your Unbound experience where there's a joy at the finish [00:21:24] Brennan Wertz: line and everybody's celebrating each other and it's this huge party and there's, you know, a barbecue or whatever. And it just, it's, it's a little bit more of a, of an experience. And so then I'd kind of had those two, those two national championship experience. And then to finish June off, I think it was early July. I went down to San Diego for Belgium wall fluoride. And that was, that was kind of the moment when I was like, I think there's something like this, something really attractive here with gravel. And I went and did that race and it felt just as professional as pro road nationals, like we had, there was a caravan, there were cars were taking feeds from the, the follow car. We're getting bottles like everyone's you know, riding very professional. But then afterwards, it's this huge party and everyone's having a good time and you're, you're chatting with sponsors and there's this big expo and there's tons and tons of people. And I just thought like, oh, this is, I think this is much more my speed. And this is really what I'm, what I'm into. I [00:22:20] Craig Dalton: remember watching some of that coverage and seeing a couple of Mike's bikes jerseys. One, that's just fun to see the local team down there, uh, doing it. And two, I was sort of scratching my head. I was like, well, who are these guys? So, you know, it's great full circle to, to kind of have you on the podcast now and talk about that journey. Yeah, [00:22:36] Brennan Wertz: no, that was an amazing moment. And then, and then that really was the turning point. I think for me, where I realized, like, I think there's something here that I need to focus more on and pay more attention to. And at that point then I started looking at. To all the other gravel races throughout the rest of the season, like what can I get entries to? What can I attend? And from there, I got to go to Steamboat and did the rest of the Belgian waffle ride series. And, uh, ended up coming second in the overall for the Belgium Wolf ride series. And just really love the, the, the way that that season unfolded and having the opportunity to go to all those races. It was really, uh, really a privilege. Yeah, that's awesome. [00:23:09] Craig Dalton: So it sounds like, like 20, 22 this year defining your own schedule. Can you talk. One that the team and organization that's supporting you this year, and then two, let's talk about, you know, your first month of racing this year and all the big events you've hit and the successes you've been having, it's been great to watch. [00:23:27] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. So I signed with Pinarello to be a part of their scooter Rhea Pinarello team. It's an amazing team. Uh, a couple of different, uh, kind of a couple different focuses. Like there I'm part of the, it's like the competitive side of it. And so me and my teammate, Brayden Lang, we're going to be taking on all the biggest gravel races around the world. I have a packed calendar with races, both in the U S as well as internationally. And then some of the, uh, the other teammates that we have they're there. Community leaders they're really active in their communities. They're inspiring people to get on their bikes. And what I really love about the team is that it's a super supportive atmosphere, similar to what I had back in my rowing days, because there's this whole like gravel, private tier scene. I think it can be a little bit lonely from time to time. Like you're, you don't have a team network around you. You don't have that kind of base that I've become really accustomed to and really love. And so. Having that network of teammates around me that are supporting me and motivating me and inspiring me with all the stuff that I'm doing and then, you know, vice versa, they're inspiring and motivating their community. Uh, I think that it's just a really cool combination, so I'm really happy to be a part of. [00:24:33] Craig Dalton: Are they handling some logistics? Like if you go to Unbound, are they kind of getting a team house together [00:24:38] Brennan Wertz: and that kind of stuff? Yeah. Yeah. There's some of that as well. Which is nice. I mean, in the race itself, like we won't be doing any like teen tactics or anything like that. Like it's not that type of team, but it's, it's this really cool collective of individuals that are all. Coming into the sport of gravel for various reasons and are looking to achieve different things in the store and looking to but like at the core of it, the team motto is to motivate and inspire. And so it's just trying to get more people on bikes and more people to come in and see the joy that we're all experiencing while out on our bikes and want to be a part of it. [00:25:08] Craig Dalton: Just something I'm curious about in that team, is everybody riding the same equipment or do you. Other sub sponsors, uh, personally to the [00:25:16] Brennan Wertz: table. Yes. So everybody's riding a Pinarello frame. And then from there, we kind of, it's up to us. Figuring out how we want to spec it out and, and you know, what relationships we might have to, to kind of fill out the rest of the bike. So for me, for my bikes for my growl bikes specifically, it's the Pinarello Greville or Graebel and I'm working with envy and ceramic speed, and this is all kind of done through above category as well. So that's another one of my main sponsors local shop here. In Marin county and they're taking care of all the builds, making sure that the bikes are always super dialed and I'll take my bikes there to Robert, the mechanic for service. But yeah, envy wheels, ceramic speed for all the bearings. Uh, I've got Garmin for all the, the data and the analytics and everything, uh, Ceram road components for everything, uh, Rene her's tires. So yeah, it's really. Special build. And it's been really fun to be a part of the process of putting together all those various sponsorships and, and building this incredible bike that I get to now spend the season racing [00:26:13] Craig Dalton: in the show notes for a picture of your bike, as it is a beauty. Top end across the board. It's real. It's just a beautiful machine to look at for sure. [00:26:22] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Very feeling, very fortunate to have the opportunity to ride such an incredible machine. [00:26:27] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So you've, you've come out in 2022, just smashing, not only like super busy and hitting a lot of races, but having amazing success thus far. Remember, as we were trying to schedule this, it's kind of like I'm racing every weekend. I have like a kind of two day window between traveling to the next thing. So you've done some grasshopper. Want to grass opera this year already. And just this past weekend you won the Shasta gravel hugger. [00:26:53] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. Yeah. It's been really, really fun to get out and hit these early season races hard. And you know, I've, I've been very blessed with incredible weather all winter, and it's been sad from an environmental standpoint that we haven't got the rain that we really need. In terms of training and preparing for the race season, it has been, it has been really, you know, the weather has been incredible for that. So I've been riding a ton and just really excited to come, come into a big season ahead. I think this next weekend, I'm going out to Oklahoma for mid south, and then I'll take a little. Mid-season break. So we'll take a few days off and just rest and reset and talk to my coach. Kind of look, look at the plan, assess where we are, and then begin to build up to some of the bigger races later in the season. Like the Belgium waffle rides and, and Unbound. [00:27:37] Craig Dalton: Well, yeah, you know, it's interesting having talked to you and learned a little bit more specifically about your background specifically, that focus on time trials that you had kind of as a, as a road race. Watching some of the imagery come across social media. I think both of the events where I've seen you, it's just like Brennan on a time trial, you know, unafraid to just kind of take off and hit it on your own. You want it? Can you talk just a little bit about your mentality in this races and if it's helpful. To kind of talk about the Shasta race specifically, like how it broke down, because I know ultimately you ended up out there with Adam road there. So yeah, just, just curious, like what your mentality is and where you think your strengths are and how you try to break these races up. [00:28:20] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. I think what's been really fun for me in these early races is that if you look at all the courses that I have raised, they've been very, very different. So. Uh, I did a little low gap hopper, which was, it started out with a 20 minute climb and it was an eight or 9% and you've got Pete stepped into there. And so for me, when I look at these early season races, I look at trying to find just this really cool mix of diverse courses so that I can try different things out. And, you know, the effort at each one of these races was so different. And so for me, I know that. Uh, race like the Shasta gravel hugger. That's kinda my, that type of course is sort of more of my bread and butter. It's rolling the elements of that. So like not a ton of climbing. I mean, I can climb when I need to, but it's not my favorite thing to do. You know, living here in Marine county, we've got tons and tons of climbing. You can't really go anywhere without climbing, but I do really love these fast rolling courses, uh, where you can just paddle all day long. So Shasta was very much that, and same with Huff master hopper the week before. And for Shasta specifically, I know, you know, Adam wrote bears was there. I think that was his first race of the season. And I had a ton of really good battles with him last year. And a lot of respect for him. He's, you know, he's definitely at the top of his game. And, uh, he showed up to the start line of it had been snowing the night before and he shows up with no legwarmers, no shoe covers. Some are gloves, short finger gloves, and, you know, I'm bundled up, I'm wearing tights and shoe covers and thermal based layers and hat. And you know, all this warm gear and he's from Canada. He's been riding his fat bike all winter. So I get it like he's, he's been riding in the snow, so it's nothing new for him. I don't have that opportunity. I don't get to ride in the snow all that often, but I kind of, I saw that. I know. Okay. He's probably, he's trying to, he's trying to hit it hard early if he's coming here, dressed like that. And so I was keeping my eye on him and I was actually way in the back of the pack, having a quick chat with Pete stetting about his recent trip to Columbia, and we were just catching up and then the corner of my eyes, see Adam just take off from the front and like Pete and I kind of rolled her eyes, but like really already, you know, this is early in the race. I, I knew exactly when he, when he attacked, like I had to be right there, otherwise he would get away and that could be the end of it right there. So I had to blast up the gutter kind of along the side of this dirt road. And I think we're 20 minutes into the race or something. And, uh, at that point I was able to catch up to him. We had a few people on our wheel for just a brief moment, but then it very quickly became just the two of us. And it was clear that he was, he was there to work and he was there to ride hard. We settled into a rhythm and he's also at a time trial list. That's sort of his background on the road. And basically it was just like, all right, how long you want to rotate for two minutes? All right, let's go. And then just 400 wallets for two minutes and then switch and then do it again. And again and again. And then two hours later, we're still doing it. And it took about two or three hours for us to get any sort of time gap. And then we got a time gap about three minutes, and then, then it started to get a little bit more spicy. There was some attacking and some cat and mouse But I've been doing a lot of training recently where I'd go out and do these five to seven hour rides, really working specifically on the last hour or two and doing all my intervals and the really hard stuff in that last hour, so that, you know, when it comes to that point in the race, that that's what I'm prepared for. And it's very, very different from any of the rowing training I've been doing. You know, you have this basically five-hour warmup to get yourself nice and softened up. Dehydrated and sweaty and everything. And, and then you, you really hit the intervals at the end of the end of the session. So I felt like I had been doing a lot of that in training. So I knew that going into that last hour, I would be in a, in a pretty good place and I was feeling good. So, I knew that the course was changing direction. We were coming out of a long headwind section into more of a crosswind cross tailwind section. And so I attacked him over the crest of a. Got into the descent and I'm a little bit bigger than him. And so I was kinda able to just really put the hammer down on this descent. That was a pretty fast, but a peddling descent. And then once it flattened out, then it was just kind of Tom trial mode and basically put the head down for 40, 45 minutes and ride as hard as I could back to 10. [00:32:16] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Amazing. Congrats on that victory. Thank you. You must feel good. Now going into, I feel like mid south is going to be the big test because obviously. The Northern California seam is the scene is all was cracking this time a year. And for me, I encourage anybody who's interested in seeing who's going to be at the front end of the field to look at those grasshopper results. Because the last few years running the side from the pandemic, you could always see who was coming out and with really good form, going to mid south. Obviously you're going to get athletes from different parts of the country. You know, sort of unofficially one of the bigger openers of the season, how you feeling about that course. There may. It's certainly going to be cold. So you had a little bit of Shasta. It could potentially be more. Are you changing your setup on the bike? You changing how you're thinking about that race? Yeah, [00:33:02] Brennan Wertz: I would say the only thing I'm flirting, the only equipment I'd probably change is going to be my tires. Everything else is going to be the same. And to be honest with you, I haven't even decided what tires I'm going to run. It's kind of one of those things I'm going out there with one setup. I'll probably have my, uh, Renee has 38 C Barlow pass licks on and cross my fingers that it's dry. But yeah, it does look like there's snow on the forecast for Friday. So the day before the race. So we'll see what happens there. I will bring definitely a spare set of novels just in case it does get really nasty and muddy, but I'm crossing my fingers for a fast, dry race. I think that would, that would suit me a little bit better. But with that being said, a crazy mud Fest, it's one of those things where it could be an epic experience. You never know what's going to happen. And I would also embrace that wholeheartedly. [00:33:45] Craig Dalton: I really enjoyed watching. Pace and battle Pete stat know that one year. And it was interesting as someone with a mountain bike background, I saw how Pete was treating his bike versus how paisan was treating his bike. And it just seemed to me that at some point Pete's bike is going to fall apart because he was just not babying it, it wasn't cleaning it in the same way pace and was, and so it was interesting to see, kind of play out in that, in that respect. I do. I mean, I tend to hope for the, all the racers sake that it turns out to be a dry year and hopefully. The snow cold, snow hard pack. And I'll be a fast, fast a day. Cause I think that'll be an interesting race to, yeah, [00:34:23] Brennan Wertz: I'm really excited. I was messaging a little bit earlier today with both pacing and Ted king and we've been talking about, you know, setups and everything and it's going to be a good one. I think, I think a lot of the top contenders are going to be there. It'll be our first big showdown of this, this season. Hi, I couldn't be more excited to be kind of lining up against the top of the whole world's gravel seen at the, yeah. Yeah. [00:34:44] Craig Dalton: It feels like, I mean, obviously last year we had a bunch of races go off, but it didn't feel like with what had happened in 2020 with the pandemic, it didn't feel like it was full throttle and everybody didn't have the same choices and opportunities. And I feel like 20, 22 is a clean slate. Like everybody's getting to where they want to get to the races are going off and it's just going to be. To see all these talented athletes just kind of attacking this. Yeah. [00:35:08] Brennan Wertz: And I think it'll be interesting too, to see like what people have been up to in the off season. Like my off season was very brief. You know, all, I took a month completely off the bike, but then pretty quickly got into riding quite a bit. And then, you know, like I said, we had amazing weather, so I was training a lot. I did the coast ride all the way down to San Diego with Ted king and a bunch of others. And So, yeah, I'm just really curious to see like how everyone's recovered from last season. Cause that season did go pretty long and I think people got really excited and hit it super hard for a long period of time going way late into end of October. And so I'm just super excited to see like where, where everyone's at and get this kind of first, first barometer first opportunity to gauge everyone's form. And, and then, you know, we'll take it from there. [00:35:47] Craig Dalton: Yeah. You mentioned you've, we've got obviously a lot of gravel athletes coming from the world tour who have had long careers and I've come to group. You're kind of at the beginning of your career coming in and charging, how are you intimidated when you get on the line against some of these names that you've, you know, you've seen in the pro tour? [00:36:04] Brennan Wertz: I think I was a little bit last year. But at the same time, like I didn't grow up watching cycling, like I didn't, you know, we'd watch the tour de France every once in a while. And that was cool to see. To be honest, like, I didn't really know who these people were anyway. Like, you know, as I've come into the sport of cycling, I've done my, I feel like I've done my due diligence to watch as much road racing as I can. And I love watching road racing. I love watching the classics, especially. But yeah, I think, I think that's only really become something that I've come to appreciate in the last year or two is. The having the opportunity to align up against these guys that have come from this incredible background in the sport and someone like Lawrence 10 damn. Who's been at the top of the road cycling scene for so many years. And now to get to line up with him at the start line and Unbound or at any of these gravel races is a huge honor. So yeah, I think, yeah, it's it's, it was, I was nervous last year. And now I think I view it really more as an honor, and I'm just excited to get to line up against all these fierce competitor. I have a, have a solid battle. [00:37:03] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It sounds like you're willing to put it on the line for the win no matter who's [00:37:07] Brennan Wertz: there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's also part of the, I think part of the sport, you have to be really focused on, on your equipment, on your own, your own race. Like you can't just go out there and ride as hard as you can for the first hour or two, knowing that you're going to explode and pay the price for that an hour 8, 9, 10, whatever. So you have to. Self-aware you have to know where your fitness is, what you're capable of at that moment in time, and then also manage your bike and your equipment and know that you're not digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of, [00:37:37] Craig Dalton: particularly in these ultra distance races like Unbound, you know, it's a different story, right. You know, I've heard from other pros that, you know, the first 30 miles is super intense and there's a lot of jockeying and then it'll shake out a little bit. It'll settle in and then kind of realizes like, you know, we're going to be on the bike for, I don't know, 10 hours. It's a, there's certain amount of miles. We just need to cover a little more tranquil and just get through it and then we'll attack each other later. [00:38:01] Brennan Wertz: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It was very much what it was even this past weekend with Adam, you know, there was three hours or two to three hours where we were just working super well together. It was basically a team time trial. We're just rotating knowing that Pete Stetson and a few others are behind chasing and the harder we're riding together. Now just putting us further and further ahead of them. That'll pay off in the long run. So yeah, it's a, it's a really fun way to race a race. You [00:38:23] Craig Dalton: mentioned sort of some of the high points for the rest of your year. And correct me if I'm wrong, you're doing an Unbound and the BWR series. [00:38:29] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. So I decided not to apply for the lifetime grand Prix this year. I'd already kind of set up my calendar. A few of those races didn't quite suit me. And I'm really excited about Steamboat two and coming from C-level I think going up and wanting to prioritize Steamboat is one of my big races for the year, but then doing Leadville the day before, just sort of felt like I'm was probably shooting myself in the foot. So I'm super excited to watch that whole lifetime grand Prix shake out and see, you know, fall out from season, start to end. Yeah. Couldn't be more excited to follow it. But for me, for my calendar, I'll be focusing more on Unbound Steamboat big sugar at the end of the year. And then throughout all that, I'll have the BWR series going as well. So I'll try to do, uh, as well as I can in the overall. They're nice. [00:39:14] Craig Dalton: Well, it sounds like you got an exciting season ahead of you. [00:39:17] Brennan Wertz: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't be more [00:39:18] Craig Dalton: thrilled. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, thank you. So we're coming by and talking about it. It's great to get connected with you. You know, I'll be rooting from, from the hometown. [00:39:26] Brennan Wertz: Definitely. Thank you so much. Really? It's been a pleasure. Cheers. [00:39:29] Craig Dalton: So that's going to do it for this week's broadcast big. Thanks to Brennan for joining the show and huge thank you to the feed for joining us. Remember to get that 50% off the feed formula. Simply visit the feed.com/the gravel ride. If you're interested in connecting with me or other gravel, cyclists, I encourage you to join the ridership@wwwdottheridership.com. It's our free global cycling community for gravel and adventure. Cyclists. If you're able to support the podcast as a couple easy ways, you can do that. You can visit, buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride for financial contributions. But I'd also just encourage you to share this episode with a friend or one of the earlier episodes. Sharing is a great way to spread the word that along with ratings and reviews are hugely helpful to everything we're doing here at the gravel ride. Until next time here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels  

This week on the pod we are joined by dad to one, the 2019 US National Road Race Champion and professional cyclist for EF Education - NIPPO, Alex Howes! Also along for the ride is WDDR Alumni, dad to three, head of medicine for the EF Education Pro Cycling Team and host of the Podium Podcast - Dr. Kevin Sprouse! We talk with Alex about his journey through fatherhood so far, the pain that is dealing with sick kiddos, how his perspective about his role in sports - specifically around being a role model and influence has changed since becoming a father and more. It was great to have Alex on the pod! Be sure to check out Team EF Coaching if you are looking to grow your cycling skills! In This Episode: Guest's Show Notes & Today's Dad Definition - www.wakedaddrinkrepeat.com/podcast/alexhowesAlex Howes on InstagramAlex's Post about HudsonKevin Sprouse on InstagramEF Pro CyclingTeam EF CoachingKevin's Episode of Wake. Dad. Drink. Repeat. Brent Bookwalter's Episode of Wake. Dad. Drink. Repeat. Christian Vande Velde's Episode of Wake. Dad. Drink. Repeat. Lawson Craddock's Episode of Wake. Dad. Drink. Repeat. The Podium PodcastSubscribe: Apple Podcast | SpotifyCheck us out: Instagram | Twitter | WebsiteSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/wakedaddrink)

Dr. Kevin Sprouse is trained and certified in both Sports and Emergency Medicine.  He serves as the Head of Medicine forEF Education First Pro Cycling and works with elite and professional athletes across numerous sports and disciplines, including professional cycling, triathlon, PGA golfers, NFL and MLB players, Olympic track and field athletes, and many more.  Dr. Sprouse's unique experience and expertise are sought by high-performing athletes, executives, and health-conscious individuals across the country and around the world. Travis and Mace chat with Dr. Sprouse about a range of topics, including Alzheimer's, metrics, training, altitude, psychology, fueling, stress, sleep, mustaches, and more.

Let's welcome back Dr. Kevin Sprouse! It's no coincidence that the bigger issue topic Dr. Sprouse and Ted discuss here is recovery, as Ted is two weeks into healing from a surgically repaired elbow. What all goes into repairing a broken bone? Why is sleep disrupted, why is sleep a hot sweaty mess (literally), why do resting heart rates skyrocket, what the heck is HRV, and how are they all tied together during injury? This duo will discuss these topics as well as the bigger picture of recovery with the perspective of athletic performance, independent of injury. Whether you as a person or athlete has suffered an injury or not, this is a fascinating dive into absorbable information that will help improve your day to day performance. With a trained background in Emergency and Sports Medicine, Dr. Sprouse is the team physician of EF Education First-Nippo as well as leading Podium Sports Medicine in Knoxville, TN. Ted is very excited to announce his partnership with Ride with GPS. This is the only mapping software Ted uses, moreover, it's the only software he's used for the past ten years or more. It's terrifically simple and user friendly, but offers plenty of opportunity for a deeper dive into analytics, compare surface types on particular routes, and combine multiple routes into one with very simple editing tools among plenty of other features. If you want to save 25% off either monthly or yearly subscriptions, just visit the link http://ridewithgps.com/dc/iamtedking If you'd like to give WHOOP a try, just visit join.whoop.com/ted to get a brand new WHOOP 4.0 for free, that's a $30 savings.

Do you enjoy competing in activities such as tennis, pickleball, golf, hiking, road races and more? Here at Simply Physio, we like to call those that are active and health minded "The Simple Athlete." In this podcast, I sit down with Dr. Kevin Sprouse, owner of Podium Sports Medicine, and discuss some pro tips for the "simple athlete." Dr. Sprouse works with elite and professional athletes and business professionals in numerous sports and disciplines. On the podcast, Dr. Sprouse provides his knowledge of what he has learned as an expert in sports performance medicine, exercise, diet, and recovery. We talk about the value and importance of sleep, nutrition, and movement and the effects they have on your body. If you or someone you know is what we call a "simple athlete," I encourage you to listen to this episode! Listen here to find out: Dr. Sprouse #1 place to start when evaluating your health Why blood glucose monitoring is important and how it affects your health A simple trick to help determine the quality of the food you eat The top health tracking "wearables" that he uses with his every day clients and so much more... If you're interested in Dr. Sprouse's practice model, or being a potential client, you can visit their website HERE, or you can directly call their office at (865) 247-5941. Thanks for listening and Stay Healthy Knoxville! Dr. John-Mark

Robbie Ventura and Dr. Kevin Sprouse discuss what happens when you bonk, the compllicated variables that impact it, and how you can prevent it.

Returning to the bike after an injury, whether a traumatic crash or a non-traumatic ailment—something like an overuse injury—can be a lengthy process. Not only is there a physical cost, the mental aspect of both dealing with the injury and the slow progress you might face can be challenging for endurance athletes. With the help of our director of sports medicine, Dr. Andy Pruitt, someone with a 40-year career built upon helping athletes get the most from their sport, we discuss the different types of injuries one can face and the various paths one can take to return to the bike. We also dive into the critical mental aspects of returning to cycling, regaining confidence, finding your way in the pack, and much more. We’ll also hear from Dr. Kevin Sprouse, head of medicine for the EF Education-Nippo WorldTour team, who runs Podium Sports Medicine in Knoxville, Tennessee. We hear from Petr Vakoc of Alpecin-Fenix, who suffered a catastrophic back injury when he was hit by a vehicle in training in 2018. Petr talks about his long road to recovery, and the long-lasting impact this has had on his professional career. Finally, we hear from Bruce Bird, an elite amateur cyclist who also suffered devastating injuries and has made his way back to the elite ranks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Cycling Podcast presents Life in the Peloton The first grand tour of the season, the Giro d’Italia, is just around the corner so I wanted to speak to Dr Kevin Sprouse about his role as a team doctor at one of the great stage races. Kevin is my team doctor at the EF Education-Nippo team […]

The first grand tour of the season, the Giro d'Italia, is just around the corner so I wanted to speak to Dr Kevin Sprouse about his role as a team doctor at one of the great stage races.Kevin is my team doctor at the EF Education-Nippo team and he's part of the medical team that looks after the riders all season round.For this podcast I wanted to ask him about how the doctors look after the riders during a three-week stage race like the Giro. There are crashes, injuries, illness and other ailments that need treating on the road and sometimes on the move.I wanted to know how he helps the riders stay healthy or remain in the race when they have a problem. From fuelling and making sure the body is ready for the day ahead to the importance of sleep to treating the common problems that riders face during a race we covered a lot of ground.I learn a lot every time I speak to Kevin, especially because he explains everything in a way that it easy to take on board, so I hope you guys all find it as interesting as I did.Cheers,MitchSPONSORThis episode is sponsored by the mental wellbeing app Calm. To get a limited time offer of 40% off Calm's Premium Subscription go to calm.com/cycle and you can access hundreds of hours of programming to help take care of your mind.Life in the Peloton 2020 playlistKeep in touch with Life in the PelotonKeep up to date with everything that’s going on with Life in the Peloton at my website lifeinthepeloton.comLife in the Peloton shopCheck out my range of Life in the Peloton merchandise on our Etsy store too, from beanies and caps to embroidered tees, logo tees and much more. Visit the Etsy store. Or follow on social media:Instagram: @lifeinthepelotonTwitter: @lifeinthepeloTheme musicThe theme music for Life in the Peloton was composed by Pete Shelley, who was lead singer of the punk band Buzzcocks. It was commissioned by the production company behind Channel 4’s coverage of the Tour de France in the 1980s and was used as the theme music for the nightly highlights show. Pete died in December 2018. We were given permission by Pete’s widow and his manager to continue using the music for the theme tune to Life in the Peloton. To hear more about the music, listen to the Andre Greipel episode of Life in the Peloton.

Dr. Kevin Sprouse is trained and certified in both Sports and Emergency Medicine.  He serves as the Head of Medicine for EF Education First Pro Cycling and works with elite and professional athletes across numerous sports and disciplines, including professional cycling, triathlon, PGA golfers, NFL and MLB players, Olympic track and field athletes, and many... The post Dr. Kevin Sprouse on the Circuit of Success appeared first on The Circuit of Success with Brett Gilliland.

The Cycling Podcast presents Life in the Peloton (listen below) As professional cyclists, our bodies are our job. There are many integral parts of a cycling team that work to help us arrive at races with our bodies in optimal shape. The Team Doctor is the one who oversees our overall wellbeing and performance on […]

On Episode 59 of the Fitness For The Fairways podcast, Joe sat down with Kevin Sprouse, the owner of Podium Sports in Knoxville, Tn. He is the Head of Medicine for EF Education First Pro Cycling and works with a number of professional athletes including those on the PGA Tour.We sat down and discussed:How to build a physiological foundation for health and golfIs golf an endurance sportHow the building an aerobic engine can actually improve strength and powerShould you work out on an empty stomachHow to program energy system development for golfConnect with KevinWebsiteThe Podium PodcastHere is the link to the full episode show notesIf you want to listen to the Scott Stalling interview we mentioned, click here. Join the Fitness For The Fairways Facebook group and become a part of the community!

In this Episode we talk about: Dr. Kevin Sprouse2:00 What is the #1 question athletes are asking right now?3:00 Should athletes that are young and healthy be concerned about training?4:45 What should endurance athletes consider during time in quarantine?6:30 How should we be thinking about my training load?8:15 What are some of the risky training environments that we should be concerned about?9:40 Should I stop going to the gym?11:28 Does it make sense to still go on group rides?14:40 Is the swimming pool a Petri dish?19:20 Are a-symtomatic carriers contagious?21:00 What are the training opportunities now?23:50 How PGA athletes are using forced training to improve their game.26:30 What are some of the foundational aspects we should be focusing on?28:20 Does the Keto diet make sense right now?31:50 What supplements should we be considering?36:15 What is the efficacy of Vitamin C in treating viruses?40:00 The importance of batch tested supplements.42:15 What is the probability of summer events?47:20 What is Dr. Sprouse's protocol?

The Blackberry Farm Pro-Am Classic explores every aspect of cycling. In part one of four featured discussions from the 2019 Pro-Am, Dr. Allen Lim and Dr. Kevin Sprouse dive into the details of nutrition and how cyclists fuel their bodies for optimum rides in a discussion hosted by former cycling professional and Vision Quest Coaching founder Robbie Ventura. This was recorded during the event, and our cycling pros were feeling the energy from a day of great riding. You'll feel their infectious personalities in this discussion. Please note, this episode contains explicit language.

We caught up with the Tennessee-based sports physician and team doctor of Cannondale-Drapac Pro Cycling Team to discuss the habits of the best riders on the world tour, training and racing at altitude, tricks for a better night's sleep, and how to cure/prevent the common cold.