Podcasts about Google Chrome

Register for Free, Live webcasts & summits:https://poweredbybhis.com00:00 - PreShow Banter™ — I just want Jorts!05:42 - Blackmailing A.I. - Talkin' Bout [infosec] News 2025-05-2707:01 - Story # 1: Experimental drones developed to neutralize mass shooters, disable weapons11:29 - Story # 2: How a global malware operation was taken down from a federal court in Georgia13:50 - Story # 3: Judge allows Workday AI bias lawsuit to proceed as collective action15:23 - Marker 1719:25 - Story # 4: Anthropic's new AI model turns to blackmail when engineers try to take it offline32:19 - Story # 5: TeleMessage customers include DC Police, Andreessen Horowitz, JP Morgan, and hundreds more34:53 - Story # 6: TikTok videos now push infostealer malware in ClickFix attacks36:57 - Story # 7: Beware, Coinbase users. Crypto thieves are taking fingers now40:56 - Story # 8: Signal now blocks Microsoft Recall screenshots on Windows 1143:16 - Story # 9: Suspected InfoStealer Malware Data Breach Exposed 184 Million Logins and Passwords44:54 - Story # 10: Google Chrome's Built-in Manager Lets Users Update Breached Passwords with One Click48:09 - Story # 11: Russian military hackers ‘Fancy Bear' target Western aid supply chains to Ukraine, NSA report says50:13 - Story # 12: Google Gemini AI assistant coming to new cars in 2025, starting with Volvo54:17 - Story # 13: Hacker Conference HOPE Says U.S. Immigration Crackdown Caused Massive Crash in Ticket Sales56:55 - Story # 13b: [HOPE_16] International Travel Tips

Part 2 of my interview with Julianna Schauerman and Ed Robins continues with a conversation with Ed. Ed Robins came to Summer Stage in 1981 and worked there until 2015. Ed is a jack-of-all-trades tech wizard, working in designing, lighting, electrical, carpentry, painting - you name it; Ed does it. He directs and stage manages as well. I hope you enjoy our conversation, so come along and have some fun . . .Conversations with Miranda a playProduced by Zakarak ProductionsDirected by Ed Robinswith Julianna Schauerman as Mirandahttps://pcstheater.org/zakarak-productions-presents-conversations-with-miranda/We all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here. Welcome to Brave and Strong and True, a podcast that engages Summer Stage alumni of all ages. I'm Bob Falkenstein. Our music is composed and performed by Neil McGettigan https://neilmcgettiganandtheeleventhhour.bandcamp.com/releases. Please click on the link to visit Neil's BandCamp website to listen to songs from his album, including cut number 7, “Harry Dietzler.” Please support Neil's work by buying downloads of your favorites.Please follow Brave and Strong and True on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, please rate the show and leave a comment.  If you want to be a guest on Brave and Strong and True, please contact me at braveandstrongandtrue@gmail.com. I can record five guests simultaneously, so reach out to your friends for an online mini-reunion.You must have the latest version of the Google Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop computer. I can now record interviews with guests who have iPads or iPhones. It helps if you have an external microphone and headphones, but Apple earbuds work too; however, Bluetooth ones are not 100% reliable, so see if you can borrow wired ones.Support the showUpper Darby Summer Stage is now part of the non-profit organization known as the Upper Darby Arts and Education Foundation. Harry Dietzler is the Executive Director of the UDAEF. If you are able to support Summer Stage financially, please visit udsummerstage.org to find out more.

Google just dropped like 3 years of AI updates on us in 3 hours.

Julianna Schauerman spent every minute of her adult life working in theatre. She came to Summer Stage in 1977 and continued to work there until 1995. She is producing the 50th Anniversary show, just like she did for reunions 25, 30, and 40. Julianna also produces special events for Summer Stage, such as Harry's Retirement Surprise Event. She runs her own production company and still finds time to perform. With us is Ed Robins who pitches in from time to time before I interview him for our next episode. I hope you enjoy our conversation, so come along and have some fun . . .Summer Stage 50th Gala Celebration Shows:https://vivenu.com/seller/upper-darby-arts-education-foundation-395kConversations with Miranda a playProduced by Zakarak ProductionsDirected by Ed Robinswith Julianna Schauerman as Mirandahttps://pcstheater.org/zakarak-productions-presents-conversations-with-miranda/Zakarak Productions, Inc. - Production Company:Zakarak.comWe all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here. Welcome to Brave and Strong and True, a podcast that engages Summer Stage alumni of all ages. I'm Bob Falkenstein.Our music is composed and performed by Neil McGettigan https://neilmcgettiganandtheeleventhhour.bandcamp.com/releases. Please click on the link to visit Neil's BandCamp website to listen to songs from his album, including cut number 7, “Harry Dietzler.” Please support Neil's work by buying downloads of your favorites.Please follow Brave and Strong and True on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, please rate the show and leave a comment.  If you want to be a guest on Brave and Strong and True, please contact me at braveandstrongandtrue@gmail.com. I can record five guests simultaneously, so reach out to your friends for an online mini-reunion.You must have the latest version of the Google Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop computer. I can now record interviews with guests who have iPads or iPhones. It helps if you have an external microphone and headphones, but Apple earbuds work too; however, Bluetooth ones are not 100% reliable, so see if you can borrow wired ones.Support the showUpper Darby Summer Stage is now part of the non-profit organization known as the Upper Darby Arts and Education Foundation. Harry Dietzler is the Executive Director of the UDAEF. If you are able to support Summer Stage financially, please visit udsummerstage.org to find out more.

本期节目我们和《二分电台》的主播 2BAB 探讨了移动应用开发领域的技术趋势。AB 详细介绍了原生与非原生开发的区别，以及 Flutter、ReactNative 和 Kotlin Multiplatform (KMP) 等跨平台框架的特点。嘉宾们还分析了各种技术选型的优劣，例如 ReactNative 的热更新优势和 Flutter 的 UI 一致性，以及 Kotlin 作为 Android 官方语言的崛起。最后，节目还探讨了 On-Device 模型在移动设备上的应用前景，例如图像语义搜索和离线推理，并对 AI 技术在移动开发领域的潜在影响进行了展望。 嘉宾 2BAB (AB) 主播 laike9m Manjusaka 章节 00:14 移动端开发框架介绍与原生/非原生定义 07:03 ReactNative 的兴起、问题与 Flutter 的挑战 14:19 Kotlin Multiplatform (KMP) 与 Jetpack Compose 的发展 23:22 KMP 的流行度、ReactNative 的价值与未来发展 30:05 Electron 的妥协与热更新的重要性 37:43 入门移动端开发的建议与 Flutter 的未来 42:57 Flutter 的风险与 Kotlin 的竞争 48:45 On-Device Model 的应用与发展 55:10 On-Device Model 的功耗与应用场景 1:03:08 On-Device Model 的隐私与安全 1:10:03 总结与推荐 链接 React Native Flutter Kotlin Programming Language Jetpack Compose Kotlin Multiplatform (KMP) Compose Multiplatform (CMP) SkiaSkia is an open source 2D graphics library which provides common APIs that work across a variety of hardware and software platforms. It serves as the graphics engine for Google Chrome and ChromeOS, Android, Flutter, and many other products. The Truth About React Native - YouTube google/XNNPACK: High-efficiency floating-point neural network inference operators for mobile, server, and Web React Native Panel hosted by Jamon Holmgren - Chiara Mooney, Eli White, Keith Kurak, Chris Traganos - YouTube Gemini Nano litert-community/Gemma3-1B-IT · Hugging Face OpenAIDoc | 开发者友好的文档中心，一站式解决您的技术文档需求 《mono 女孩》

Parisa Tabriz is vice president and general manager for Google Chrome, the world's leading browser platform. She leads efforts to make Chrome a secure and essential enterprise workspace, integrating AI and advanced cybersecurity to meet evolving business needs. In this episode, Parisa joins Bob to explore how Chrome is redefining the browser as a productivity and security platform, the role of AI in enterprise protection, and what's next for Chrome's innovations.Chrome at Google Cloud NextThe Big Themes:Chrome's Evolution into a Central Productivity and Security Platform: Over the past 17 years, Chrome has transformed from a simple web browser into a comprehensive platform integral to enterprise productivity and security. Users now spend a significant portion of their workday within Chrome, utilizing it for tasks ranging from document editing to video conferencing. This shift has positioned Chrome as the new endpoint in enterprise environments.Simplifying Enterprise Security with Chrome: Complexity is often the enemy of security. Chrome aims to simplify enterprise security by integrating protective measures directly into the browser, reducing the need for multiple, potentially conflicting security solutions. Features like automatic updates, built-in phishing protection, and centralized policy management allow IT teams to maintain a secure environment with less overheads.Personalization, Governance, and AI Empowerment: Chrome prioritizes features that allow organizations to personalize user experiences while maintaining strict governance over data and AI usage. Tools like data masking, controlled copy-paste functionalities, and the ability to designate approved AI applications help prevent data leaks and ensure compliance with internal policies. By providing these controls, Chrome empowers enterprises to harness the benefits of AI technologies responsibly.The Big Quote: ". . . the browser is the place where you can give people access to the benefits [of AI], but also make sure that you have the controls and governance to turn it off or make sure that your employees aren't copying and pasting data into an unsanctioned AI surface."More from Parisa Tabriz and Google Chrome:Connect with Parisa on LinkedIn or learn more about Google Chrome.

Depois de ter sido condenado por monopólio, o Google pode ser obrigado vender o Chrome. A ideia é que ter o maior navegador do mundo dá uma vantagem desproporcional à empresa dona do maior buscador do mundo, acabando com a concorrência no mercado de busca. Mas qual será o valor de um Google Chrome sem o Google?No episódio de hoje, a gente analisa os players que poderiam comprar o Google Chrome e discute se ter o navegador mais popular já seria o suficiente para dominar o mercado. Você usaria um Microsoft Chrome? E um ChromeGPT? Pra viajar nessas possibilidades, dá o play e vem com a gente! ParticipantesThiago MobilonJosué de Oliveira Emerson AlecrimAna MarquesMande seu recadoGrupos da Caixa Postal do Tecnocast: Telegram: t.me/caixapostaltecnocast WhatsApp: tbnet.me/caixapostaltecnocast Você pode mandar comentários (inclusive em áudio, vai que você aparece no Tecnocast?), dúvidas, críticas e sugestões. Participe!Se preferir, você pode se comunicar conosco pela Comunidade e através do e-mail tecnocast@tecnoblog.net.Entre também nos Canais do TB no WhatsApp Canal do Tecnoblog Canal do Achados do TB CréditosProdução: Josué de OliveiraEdição e sonorização: Ariel LiborioArte da capa: Vitor Pádua

AI zamjenjuje junior developere? Govorimo i o trendu ili nečemu što se se zadržati dugoročno? Na konferenciji Shift Miami razgovarali smo sa senior inženjerom Zvonimirom Petkovićem iz Infobipa. U intervjuu smo se dotaknuli najnovijih trendova u području umjetne inteligencije, konkretno multimodalnih jezičnih modela, njihove primjene i izazova koje donose developerima. Zvonimir je komentirao utjecaj ovih alata na radna mjesta, posebno juniorske pozicije, kao i šire promjene koje AI donosi u dinamiku tech industrije. _______________0:00 – Uvod0:40 – Multimodalni modeli: revolucija ili nova prijetnja?4:20 – Ovi modeli barataju vrlo osjetljivim podacima6:30 – Zašto developeri panično izbjegavaju ove AI alate?8:50 – AI alati brišu granicu između stručnjaka i laika11:15 – Je li AI “ubio” juniorske pozicije?13:20 – Tempo tech industrije: količina ispred kvalitete17:16 – Tko će kupiti Google Chrome?TOP & FLOP20:20 – Ponovno se dijele otkazi21:40 – Procurili tajni podaci američke vlade_______________

Ce lundi 12 mai, François Sorel a reçu Salime Nassur, fondateur de Maars, Damien Douani, responsable de l'innovation de l'école Narratiiv et fondateur du cabinet Topos, et Frédéric Simottel, journaliste BFM Business. Ils se sont penchés sur l'annonce du lancement par Perplexity d'un moteur de recherche en concurrence avec Google Chrome, et l'intégration de la Française Fidji Simo à la direction des applications chez OpenAI, dans l'émission Tech & Co, la quotidienne, sur BFM Business. Retrouvez l'émission du lundi au jeudi et réécoutez la en podcast.

001: AI 係幫手定係倒米？杜克大學研究話用 AI 工具分分鐘對冧你飯碗！002: 華為殺出新血路！首部鴻蒙系統手提電腦「橫空出世」！003: Google Keep 小工具「變身」！新設計「耳目一新」！004: Google Chrome 命懸一線？美國司法部訴訟「搞到佢騰騰震」！005: Google Gemini Live 殺入 Workspace！同 AI 傾偈「話咁易」！006: 教宗都講 AI！新教宗話應對 AI 好似當年工業革命咁重要！007: IBM 調查：AI 投資「有得震冇得瞓」？四分一先有回報！008: 蘋果「大翻身」在望？摺疊 iPhone、眼鏡產品「排晒隊」2027 見街！009: 前 Apple 設計師 Jony Ive 爆料：下一件產品靈感嚟自智能手機「副作用」！

In this episode, we explore how to effectively manage your browsing history in Google Chrome using JAWS. Learn how to access, navigate, and search your browser history, as well as how to delete it selectively using advanced settings. We also dive into browser history display quirks, explain how to use table navigation and link lists with JAWS, and demonstrate how to search directly from the Chrome address bar. Plus, get an introduction to Chrome extensions that enhance history management, including how to install, manage, and toggle them. Whether you're cleaning up your digital trail or just trying to find that one page you visited last week, this episode has the tools and tips you need.

Tough times for tech as Apple AND Google face legal woes. This week on The Six Five Pod, Patrick Moorhead and Daniel Newman dissect the major developments shaping the tech landscape: From the DOJ's challenge to Google Chrome's search dominance and Apple's legal battles over its app store policies. Get the expert breakdown on the implications for consumers and the future of these tech behemoths. The handpicked topics for this week are:   Google's Legal Challenges and Antitrust Issues: Discussion on Google's predicament with the DOJ's demand to sell Chrome, plus the examination of antitrust implications and the potential impact on consumer choice and competition.   Apple's Legal Setback and Potential Criminal Charges: Analysis of the judgment against Apple's in the Epic lawsuit regarding app payment services. Insight into the judge's strong stance against Apple's non-compliance and the possible pursuit of criminal charges against its executives.   Major Announcements from Nvidia and IBM: Overview of NVIDIA and IBM's significant investment announcements at the White House and a discussion on what these investments could mean for U.S. tech infrastructure and global competitiveness.   Taiwan's Ruling on TSMC's Chip Production: Exploration of Taiwan's decision to keep TSMC's leading-edge chip production local and the potential geopolitical and economic impact of this ruling for global semiconductor supply chains.   Intel's Foundry Day and 18A Variants: Insights into Intel's Foundry Day announcements, including updates on 18A variants, plus a look into Intel's strategy to attract major fabless customers and how this could affect the semiconductor industry.   Six Five Summit Announcement: Announcement of the upcoming Six Five Summit, "AI Unleashed 2025" from June 16-19. The opening keynote will be delivered by Michael Dell, along with a lineup of other prominent speakers. Visit www.SixFiveMedia.com/summit for more information on the virtual event! For a more on each topic, please click on the links above. Be sure to subscribe to The Six Five Pod so you never miss an episode.  

It's an all new That Real Blind Tech show as Allison, Brian, David, and Jeanine get together to discuss a lot of A.I.   We start off with a few announcements.   Apple is not having a good run of it, as Hackers can now access your devices via AirPlay. Apple released a video urging iPhone users to delete Google Chrome. Will the latest ruling in Apple VS Epic have drastic changes with the App Store?   Will the Department of Justice anti-trust ruling ruin google Search?   Lift has launched Lift Silver for older customers, will it mean an improvement for riders with disabilities?   The new StellerTrek is here for the low low price of $1750.   We then discuss Leasey  and its new sports and games feature.   We then welcome David to the Meta Ray Ban family. Meta has changed the name of MetaView to the Meta A.I. app with a bunch of new features. We discuss the ridiculous new discuss friends feature in the app. We then have some fun with the new digital companion and how it will talk dirty to you.   A new North Carolina bill would require people to share their Identification with social media websites.   Microsoft has made CoPilot Vision available for all Edge users, but does anyone care?   OpenAI has rolled back the latest ChatGPT for being to much of a kiss ass.   Perplexity's new Voice assistant supposedly succeeds where Siri fails.   And it's more of what's Pissing Off Brian Now and Watcha Streaming, Watcha Reading.   To contact That Real Blind Tech Show, you can email us at ThatRealBlindTechShow@gmail.com, join our Facebook Group That Real Blind Tech Show, join us on the Twitter @BlindTechShow

C'est un bras de fer juridique historique qui se joue à Washington. Le département de la Justice américaine, bien décidé à mettre fin au monopole présumé de Google sur la recherche en ligne et la publicité numérique, envisage désormais une mesure radicale : forcer le géant californien à se séparer de son navigateur vedette, Google Chrome.Accusé d'écraser la concurrence en verrouillant l'accès à son écosystème, Chrome serait devenu, selon les autorités, bien plus qu'un simple navigateur. Il serait la véritable porte d'entrée vers la galaxie Google : publicité ciblée, collecte de données, services en ligne… tout y passe. D'où cette idée de rupture nette. Et depuis que cette hypothèse circule, une question agite la tech : combien vaut réellement Chrome ? Une estimation initiale, signée Bloomberg Intelligence, évoquait une fourchette entre 15 et 20 milliards de dollars. Mais lors du procès, Gabriel Weinberg, patron du moteur de recherche DuckDuckGo, a lancé un pavé dans la mare : pour lui, Chrome pourrait valoir jusqu'à 50 milliards de dollars. Une évaluation « à la louche », certes, mais qui aligne le navigateur sur des transactions XXL comme le rachat de Twitter par Elon Musk (44 milliards) ou d'Activision par Microsoft (près de 69 milliards).Plusieurs acteurs majeurs seraient déjà intéressés par une potentielle acquisition : OpenAI, Perplexity, Yahoo… Mais une question demeure : qui pourrait vraiment s'offrir Chrome sans en perdre l'essence ? Car c'est là que l'ironie frappe. Chrome, c'est aussi un logiciel open source. N'importe quel éditeur peut déjà s'en inspirer, comme le font Opera, Brave ou Edge. Ce qui a vraiment de la valeur, c'est la base des 3 milliards d'utilisateurs qui gravitent autour de l'écosystème Google. Sans l'accès aux services maison — moteur de recherche, YouTube, Maps ou Gmail — que reste-t-il ? Un simple navigateur, certes puissant, mais vidé de sa magie. La vente de Chrome, si elle a lieu, pourrait donc s'avérer être un cadeau empoisonné, privant l'acquéreur de ce qui fait vraiment sa force : le lien invisible mais puissant qui unit chaque clic à l'univers Google. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

On this episode, I cover some recent issues caused by the April Windows Updates, I cover the news of many suitors vying for Google Chrome, annoyances with ChatGPT and more! Reference Links: https://www.rorymon.com/blog/many-suitors-after-google-chrome-ms-hit-by-ransomware-hotpatching-to-require-subscription/

▽トーク概要エンジニアの採用が減少する中で大切な考え方OpenAIがGoogle Chrome買収に関心を示す背景とは？おすすめコンテンツ『DIE WITH ZERO』＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝Level 5 by Palo Alto Insight への意見箱https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XXj9G8RHOSJIARu4zylTsmecI1rOX0twLI4Ju14XwQA/viewform?edit_requested=true⁠放送の感想やご質問は、こちらの意見箱へお寄せください！＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝＝【出演者】石角友愛 / 長谷川貴久 / 山崎壯⁠石角友愛のTwitter：⁠https://twitter.com/tomoechama⁠DM解放中！リプライやDMまで気軽にご連絡ください。パロアルトインサイトHP：⁠www.paloaltoinsight.com⁠楽曲提供： Atsu (beatmaker and rapper from Zenarchy)⁠https://twitter.com/atsu_izm⁠「Transform」Level5テーマソング⁠https://m.soundcloud.com/atsuizm/transform⁠

0:00:00 – HKPUG 會訊 + 每週 IT 新聞 0:52:17 – 依輪乜事 1:14.50 – Main Topic 本集全長 2:11:10 迎接第 1000 集派樂派對回顧, 五月茶聚接受登記, TechTalk, Google 被美國法院裁定壟斷 Chrome …

Microsoft is bereid om president Donald Trump en de Amerikaanse overheid aan te klagen als die een verbod op clouddiensten in Europa zouden opleggen of gegevens van Europese klanten zouden opeisen. Dat stelt president Brad Smith van Microsoft, die naast die toezegging nog vier beloftes doet aan Europa. Niels Kooloos vertelt erover in deze Tech Update. Smith deed de toezeggingen op een evenement in Brussel. Naast de bereidheid om juridische actie te ondernemen, gaat Microsoft ook meer datacenters in Europa bouwen, de cybersecurity opschalen en Europese ontwikkelaars toegang geven tot Microsofts AI-ecosysteem. Daarmee hoopt Smith zorgen bij Europese bedrijven en overheden weg te nemen, die juist onafhankelijker van Amerikaanse techbedrijven willen worden. Verder in deze Tech Update: Alphabet-baas Sundar Pichai legt in de rechtbank in Washington uit waarom een gedwongen verkoop van Google Chrome een slecht idee is See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

News includes a critical Unauthenticated Remote Code Execution vulnerability in Erlang/OTP SSH, José Valim teasing a new project, Oban Pro v1.6's impressive new "Cascade Mode" feature, Semaphore CI/CD platform being open-sourced as a primarily Elixir application, new sandboxing options for Elixir code with Dune and Mini Elixir, BeaconCMS development slowing due to DockYard cuts, and a look at the upcoming W3C Device Bound Session Credentials standard that will impact all web applications, and more! Show Notes online - http://podcast.thinkingelixir.com/251 (http://podcast.thinkingelixir.com/251) Elixir Community News https://paraxial.io/ (https://paraxial.io/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Paraxial.io is sponsoring today's show! Sign up for a free trial of Paraxial.io today and mention Thinking Elixir when you schedule a demo for a limited time offer. https://x.com/ErlangDiscu/status/1914259474937753747 (https://x.com/ErlangDiscu/status/1914259474937753747?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Unauthenticated Remote Code Execution vulnerability discovered in Erlang/OTP SSH. https://github.com/erlang/otp/security/advisories/GHSA-37cp-fgq5-7wc2 (https://github.com/erlang/otp/security/advisories/GHSA-37cp-fgq5-7wc2?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Official security advisory for the Erlang/OTP SSH vulnerability. https://paraxial.io/blog/erlang-ssh (https://paraxial.io/blog/erlang-ssh?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Paraxial.io's detailed blog post addressing how the SSH vulnerability impacts typical Elixir systems. https://elixirforum.com/t/updated-nerves-systems-available-with-cve-2025-32433-ssh-fix/70539 (https://elixirforum.com/t/updated-nerves-systems-available-with-cve-2025-32433-ssh-fix/70539?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Updated Nerves systems available with SSH vulnerability fix. https://bsky.app/profile/oban.pro/post/3lndzg72r2k2g (https://bsky.app/profile/oban.pro/post/3lndzg72r2k2g?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Announcement of Oban Pro v1.6's new "Cascade Mode" feature. https://oban.pro/articles/weaving-stories-with-cascading-workflows (https://oban.pro/articles/weaving-stories-with-cascading-workflows?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Blog post demonstrating Oban Pro's new Cascading Workflows feature used to create children's stories with AI. https://bsky.app/profile/josevalim.bsky.social/post/3lmw5fvnyvc2k (https://bsky.app/profile/josevalim.bsky.social/post/3lmw5fvnyvc2k?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – José Valim teasing a new logo with "Soon" message. https://tidewave.ai/ (https://tidewave.ai/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – New site mentioned in José Valim's teasers, not loading to anything yet. https://github.com/tidewave-ai (https://github.com/tidewave-ai?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – New GitHub organization related to José Valim's upcoming announcement. https://github.com/tidewave-ai/mcpproxyelixir (https://github.com/tidewave-ai/mcp_proxy_elixir?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – The only public project in the tidewave-ai organization - an Elixir MCP server for STDIO. https://x.com/chris_mccord/status/1913073561561858229 (https://x.com/chris_mccord/status/1913073561561858229?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Chris McCord teasing AI development with Phoenix applications. https://ashweekly.substack.com/p/ash-weekly-issue-13 (https://ashweekly.substack.com/p/ash-weekly-issue-13?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Zach Daniel teasing upcoming Ash news to be announced at ElixirConf EU. https://elixirforum.com/t/dune-sandbox-for-elixir/42480 (https://elixirforum.com/t/dune-sandbox-for-elixir/42480?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Dune - a sandbox for Elixir created by a Phoenix maintainer. https://github.com/functional-rewire/dune (https://github.com/functional-rewire/dune?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – GitHub repository for Dune, an Elixir code sandbox. https://blog.sequinstream.com/why-we-built-mini-elixir/ (https://blog.sequinstream.com/why-we-built-mini-elixir/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Blog post explaining Mini Elixir, another Elixir code sandbox solution. https://github.com/sequinstream/sequin/tree/main/lib/sequin/transforms/minielixir (https://github.com/sequinstream/sequin/tree/main/lib/sequin/transforms/minielixir?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – GitHub repository that contains Mini Elixir, an Elixir AST interpreter. https://www.reddit.com/r/elixir/comments/1k27ekg/webuiltacustomelixirastinterpreter_for/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/elixir/comments/1k27ekg/we_built_a_custom_elixir_ast_interpreter_for/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Reddit discussion about Mini Elixir AST interpreter. https://github.com/semaphoreio/semaphore (https://github.com/semaphoreio/semaphore?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Semaphore CI/CD platform open-sourced under Apache 2.0 license - primarily an Elixir application. https://semaphore.io/ (https://semaphore.io/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Official website for Semaphore CI/CD platform. https://docs.semaphoreci.com/CE/getting-started/install (https://docs.semaphoreci.com/CE/getting-started/install?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Installation guide for Semaphore Community Edition. https://bsky.app/profile/markoanastasov.bsky.social/post/3lj5o5h5z7k2t (https://bsky.app/profile/markoanastasov.bsky.social/post/3lj5o5h5z7k2t?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Announcement from Marko Anastasov, co-founder of Semaphore CI, about open-sourcing their platform. https://github.com/elixir-dbvisor/sql (https://github.com/elixir-dbvisor/sql?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – GitHub repository for SQL parser and sigil with impressive benchmarks. https://groups.google.com/g/elixir-ecto/c/8MOkRFAdLZc?pli=1 (https://groups.google.com/g/elixir-ecto/c/8MOkRFAdLZc?pli=1?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Discussion about SQL parser being 400-650x faster than Ecto for generating SQL. https://bsky.app/profile/bcardarella.bsky.social/post/3lndymobsak2p (https://bsky.app/profile/bcardarella.bsky.social/post/3lndymobsak2p?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Announcement about BeaconCMS reducing development due to Dockyard cuts. https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vnywtpvzgdgetnwea3fs3y6w (https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vnywtpvzgdgetnwea3fs3y6w?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Related profile for BeaconCMS announcement. https://beaconcms.org/ (https://beaconcms.org/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – BeaconCMS official website. https://github.com/BeaconCMS/beacon (https://github.com/BeaconCMS/beacon?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – GitHub repository for BeaconCMS. Do you have some Elixir news to share? Tell us at @ThinkingElixir (https://twitter.com/ThinkingElixir) or email at show@thinkingelixir.com (mailto:show@thinkingelixir.com) Discussion Resources Discussion about Device Bound Session Credentials, a W3C initiative being built into major browsers that will require minor changes to Phoenix for implementation. https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-dbsc/ (https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-dbsc/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – W3C - Device Bound Session Credentials proposal https://github.com/w3c/webappsec-dbsc/ (https://github.com/w3c/webappsec-dbsc/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Device Bound Session Credentials explainer https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/device-bound-session-credentials (https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/device-bound-session-credentials?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Device Bound Session Credentials (DBSC) on the Google Chrome developer blog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrustedPlatformModule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Wikipedia article on Trusted Platform Module, relevant to Device Bound Session Credentials discussion. https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-1021-notes.pdf (https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-1021-notes.pdf?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Other podcast show notes discussing Device Bound Session Credentials (DBSC). https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/1021?autostart=false (https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/1021?autostart=false?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Security Now podcast episode covering Device Bound Session Credentials (time coded link to discussion). Find us online - Message the show - Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/thinkingelixir.com) - Message the show - X (https://x.com/ThinkingElixir) - Message the show on Fediverse - @ThinkingElixir@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/ThinkingElixir) - Email the show - show@thinkingelixir.com (mailto:show@thinkingelixir.com) - Mark Ericksen on X - @brainlid (https://x.com/brainlid) - Mark Ericksen on Bluesky - @brainlid.bsky.social (https://bsky.app/profile/brainlid.bsky.social) - Mark Ericksen on Fediverse - @brainlid@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/brainlid) - David Bernheisel on Bluesky - @david.bernheisel.com (https://bsky.app/profile/david.bernheisel.com) - David Bernheisel on Fediverse - @dbern@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/dbern)

In today's episode on 29th April 2025, we tell you why OpenAI, PerplexityAI and Yahoo are lining up to buy Google Chrome and who's most likely to end up owning it.Speak to Ditto's advisors now, by clicking the link here - https://ditto.sh/9zoz41 

Karsten Wildberger wird Digitalminister. Amazons Project Kuiper nimmt Kurs auf den Kampf mit Elon Musks Starlink, während ChatGPTs neue Shopping-Funktionen Googles Dominanz im Online-Einkauf herausfordern könnten. Temu weist Importgebühren aus. DeepMind-Mitarbeiter wehren sich gegen Verteidigungsabkommen und das chinesische Startup Manus sammelt Geld amerikanischer VCs ein. Elon Musks xAI Holdings plant eine 20-Milliarden-Dollar-Finanzierung. Google steht unter Druck und Stripe will mit einem Stablecoin-Zahlungsprodukt den internationalen Markt erobern. Huawei fordert mit einem neuen KI-Chip Nvidias Dominanz herausfordert. Unterstütze unseren Podcast und entdecke die Angebote unserer Werbepartner auf ⁠doppelgaenger.io/werbung⁠. Vielen Dank! Philipp Glöckler und Philipp Klöckner sprechen heute über: (00:00:00) OMR (00:04:05) Wildberger Digitalminister, neues Kabinett (00:21:00 ) Amazon Internetsatelliten Project Kuiper (00:24:20 ) ChatGPT Shoppingfunktion (00:29:50) Temu Importgebühren (00:36:05) ChatGPT schleimt (00:41:45) Meta KI (00:45:55) DeepMind Mitarbeiter Gewerkschaft (00:48:45) Manus AI Finanzierung 500 Millionen (00:50:15) xAI Finanzierung (00:54:15 ) Slate Auto (00:57:45) Google Chrome (01:00:45) Stripe Stablecoin (01:03:30) Meta Smart Glasses (01:07:25) Huawei KI Chip (01:10:15) Deliveroo Aktienanstieg (01:10:45) HelloFresh Quartalsergebnis (01:13:35) Immigrationsdatenbank Palantir Shownotes Designierter Digitalminister Karsten Wildberger – handelsblatt.com Hesco - Märkische Allgemeine Die Gruppenchats, die Amerika veränderten – semafor.com Kuiper: Amazon bringt eigene Internetsatelliten ins All – zeit.de OpenAI fügt Shopping zu ChatGPT hinzu – wired.com Temu import charges – cnbc.com ChatGPT Speichellecker – businessinsider.com Metas KI ignoriert Jugendschutz – wsj.com Instagram-Bearbeitungs-App: 7 Millionen Downloads in erster Woche – techi.com DeepMind-Mitarbeiter in UK wollen sich gewerkschaftlich organisieren – ft.com Chinesisches KI-Startup Manus erhält Finanzierung bei 500 Millionen Bewertung – bloomberg.com xAI $120Mrd Bewertung – techcrunch.com Bezos-unterstützte Slate Auto enthüllt erschwinglichen Pick-Up – nbcnews.com Nur Google kann Chrome betreiben, sagt Browser-Chefin vor Gericht – bloomberg.com Stripe testet Stablecoin Projekt – coindesk.com Metas kommende Smart Glasses für über 1.000 $ – bloomberg.com Huawei entwickelt neuen KI-Chip – wsj.com Deliveroo-Aktien steigen nach Übernahmeangebot von DoorDash – bloomberg.com HelloFresh-Gewinne verdreifachen sich durch Effizienzprogramm – bloomberg.com DOGE baut Master-Datenbank für Einwanderungsdurchsetzung – edition.cnn.com

In this episode, Jamie and Jaeden explore OpenAI's latest release—the ChatGPT-03 model—breaking down its new capabilities and what they mean for education, privacy, and the broader AI ecosystem. They also tackle growing concerns around AI benchmarking and discuss rumors of OpenAI's potential acquisition of Google Chrome, shedding light on the intensifying competition in the AI space.Chapters00:00 Introduction to OpenAI's Latest Developments01:48 Exploring OpenAI's New Model: ChatGPT-0304:32 Benchmarking AI Models: Understanding Performance Metrics08:16 User Personalization and Privacy Concerns10:17 OpenAI's Ambitions: The Potential Acquisition of Google ChromeAI Hustle YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AI-Hustle-PodcastOur Skool Community: https://www.skool.com/aihustle/aboutTry AI Box: ⁠⁠https://AIBox.ai/⁠⁠

In today's MadTech, we discuss Yahoo's interest in acquiring Google Chrome, ChatGPT's new content partnership with The Washington Post to enhance its news responses, and Amazon's expansion of its ‘Haul' storefront.

Stop Using Google Chrome by Nick Espinosa, Chief Security Fanatic

In this episode of the Niche Pursuits News Podcast, Jared and Thomas dig into one of the week's biggest stories: OpenAI has expressed interest in buying Google Chrome if regulators force Google to sell as part of the ongoing antitrust trial.  They also explore new data around AI Overviews and how they're impacting organic click-through rates. Jared shares how his seasonal Pinterest strategy brought in 35% of his site traffic last week, and Thomas debates whether to post AI content to his established YouTube channel or grow a brand-new one from scratch. And something that I don't think has happened on the podcast yet, a baby chick joins the show live. Watch the full episode for fresh takes on search, side hustles, seasonal traffic strategies, and the evolving role of AI in how we discover and consume content. Links & Resources: Open AI buying Chrome - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/google-contemplated-exclusive-gemini-ai-deals-with-android-makers-2025-04-22/ Google AI Overviews are hurting CTR - https://searchengineland.com/google-ai-overviews-hurt-click-through-rates-454428  Google AI Overview Study: 90% Of B2B Buyers Click On Citations - https://www.searchenginejournal.com/google-ai-overview-study-90-of-b2b-buyers-click-on-citations/544505/  Cackle Hathery - https://www.cacklehatchery.com/ Word Finder - https://www.wordfinder.com/en/ Ready to join a niche publishing mastermind, and hear from industry experts each week?  Join the Niche Pursuits Community here: https://community.nichepursuits.com Be sure to get more content like this in the Niche Pursuits Newsletter Right Here: https://www.nichepursuits.com/newsletter Want a Faster and Easier Way to Build Internal Links?  Get $15 off Link Whisper with Discount Code "Podcast" on the Checkout Screen: https://www.nichepursuits.com/linkwhisper Get SEO Consulting from the Niche Pursuits Podcast Host, Jared Bauman: https://www.nichepursuits.com/201creative

 In today's MadTech Daily, we explore Meta's decision to open Threads' ad platform to global advertisers, reports that OpenAI has shown interest in acquiring Google Chrome, and a new statement from Meta's Oversight Board, which claims the company “hastily” altered its content moderation policy.

OpenAI would be open to buying Google's Chrome browser Talk about an instant audience - imagine logging into your Chrome web browser and instead of getting Google results, you get ChatGPT. The DOJ ruled last year that Google is a monopolist in Search – now comes the search to decide what to do with Chrome. OpenAI told the judge the company would be interested in taking it over. Open AI, with ChatGPT, wants to be the way you find and access information on the web. Attempts to partner with Google Search have been unsuccessful – they only have access to Bing. Only trouble, Open AI says it's not as good as Google. The line between iPad & Mac could be about to be blurred even further One of the regular Apple leakers has as a scoop: a menubar could be coming to the iPad when the magic keyboard is connected. Assuming it functions like the Mac version, it gives quick access to app and operating system. They also say iPadOS 19 will enhance Stage Manager, the feature that allows a user to plug their iPad into an external monitor. These two changes would make it the most laptop-like iPad we've seen. Devices in the EU are about to get a mandatory label on the box Just how long will that new phone or tablet's battery last? You'll now get a way to compare from device to device with standardized labels. The labels will say how many times the battery is rated to be recharged, how energy efficient the device is, and how long the battery should last each day. It'll also rate now repairable and durable the device is. They will also impose "ecodesign" requirements to make devices more resilient, including being protected from splashes of water, dust, scratches, and drops. All devices on sale across the EU from June 8 will need the label. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In today's MadTech Daily, we discuss Google Chrome's decision to pull back from new third-party cookie prompt rollout, Apple and Meta's fines under EU's Digital Markets Act and Didomi's €72m acquisition of Addingwell 

Google's SSP and ad server businesses have been ruled monopolies. Plus, Google Chrome isn't going to change its third-party cookie opt-ins, preserving their utility for marketers. Go inside this momentous news.

Hosts Jason Howell and Jeff Jarvis dive into OpenAI's desire to buy Google Chrome, Perplexity AI's talks with Samsung and Motorola, Google DeepMind's claim that AI could cure all disease in a decade, and the Oscars' decision to allow A.I.—with caveats—and more. Support the show on Patreon! http://patreon.com/aiinsideshow Subscribe to the YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/@aiinsideshow Enjoying the AI Inside podcast? Please rate us ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcatcher of choice! Note: Time codes subject to change depending on dynamic ad insertion by the distributor. CHAPTERS: 00:01:58 - OpenAI would buy Google's Chrome, exec testifies at trial 00:13:49 - Perplexity AI in Talks to Integrate Assistant Into Samsung, Motorola Phones 00:23:13 - AI could cure all disease in a decade, says Google DeepMind CEO— Perplexity's Aravind Srinivas agrees 00:29:27 - Draft executive order outlines plan to integrate AI into K-12 schools 00:36:48 - Google just fired the first shot of the next battle in the AI war 00:49:18 - IEEE: Google Succeeds With LLMs While Meta and OpenAI Stumble 00:50:04 - Columbia student suspended over interview cheating tool raises $5.3M to ‘cheat on everything' 00:58:31 - Oscars OK the Use of A.I., With Caveats 01:01:09 - ChatGPT burns tens of millions of Softbank dollars listening to you thanking it 01:03:12 - To stop scraping, Wikipedia releases Kaggle dataset Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Este martes la Santa Sede finalmente compartió las primeras imágenes del féretro abierto en el que descansa Jorge Mario Bergoglio, vestido de casulla roja, mitra blanca, con su anillo de siempre y en un ataúd simple, como fue su deseo. ¿Cómo siguen los protocolos del Vaticano? Te lo contamos.Después del escándalo por la transmisión del spot estadounidense antiinmigrante en la tele abierta mexicana, la presidenta anunció ayer que enviaría una reforma para prohibir la propaganda extranjera en medios nacionales.Además… Claudia Sheinbaum aseguró que no irá al funeral del papa Francisco; Gertz Manero informó que la FGR mostrará resultados de peritajes en el rancho Teuchitlán la próxima semana; la Universidad de Harvard demandó a la administración de Trump; al menos 26 turistas murieron en un ataque terrorista en Cachemira; el FMI recortó este martes sus pronósticos de crecimiento para la economía mundial y México recibió el mayor ajuste a la baja; y OpenAI tiene el ojo puesto en Google Chrome.Y para #ElVasoMedioLleno… Este miércoles es el Día Internacional del Libro, y queremos contarte sobre el Maratón de Lectura 2025, una propuesta de Penguin Random House.Para enterarte de más noticias como estas, síguenos en redes sociales. Estamos en todas las plataformas como @telokwento. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lizzy Lunardi and Anna Rudegeair first met each other while auditioning for Annie, Jr. in 2012. They were cast as Molly and Annie and began a lifelong friendship; they collectively became known as “Lizzanna.” These amazing young women speak so fondly of each other and what Summer Stage means to them. I enjoyed my time with them. I even learned about Dorkus Dietzler. I hope you enjoy our conversation, so come along and have some fun . . .Please follow Anna on Instagram and TikTok at @annaredhair_We all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here. Welcome to Brave and Strong and True, a podcast that engages Summer Stage alumni of all ages. I'm Bob Falkenstein.Our music is composed and performed by Neil McGettigan https://neilmcgettiganandtheeleventhhour.bandcamp.com/releases. Please click on the link to visit Neil's BandCamp website to listen to songs from his album, including cut number 7, “Harry Dietzler.” Please support Neil's work by buying downloads of your favorites.Please follow Brave and Strong and True on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, please rate the show and leave a comment.  If you want to be a guest on Brave and Strong and True, please contact me at braveandstrongandtrue@gmail.com. I can record five guests simultaneously so reach out to your friends for an online mini-reunion.You must have the latest version of the Google Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop computer. I can now record interviews with guests who have iPads or iPhones. It helps if you have an external microphone and headphones, but Apple earbuds work too; however, BlueTooth ones are not 100% reliable, so see if you can borrow wired ones.Support the showUpper Darby Summer Stage is now part of the non-profit organization known as the Upper Darby Arts and Education Foundation. Harry Dietzler is the Executive Director of the UDAEF. If you are able to support Summer Stage financially, please visit udsummerstage.org to find out more.

As the property management industry continues to evolve, it's important to stay up to date on the latest innovations in technology. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with David Normand from Vendoroo to talk about AI's role in the future of property management. You'll Learn [01:29] The AI Revolution [08:47] The Importance of Empathy and Human Touch [22:21] Decreasing the Cost of Maintenance Coordination [32:29] New Features Coming to Vendoroo Quotables “As any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best.” “If you're not reading articles and studying up on this, I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly.” “Empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better.” “Empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] David: If you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:00:14] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware. [00:00:18] Jason: All right. Welcome property management entrepreneurs to the DoorGrow Show or the Property Management Growth podcast. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive group coaching mastermind for residential property management entrepreneurs. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. [00:00:39] Jason: I've brought innovative strategies and optimizations to the property management industry. I have spoken to thousands of property management companies. I've coached over 600 businesses. I've rebranded over 300 companies like Bar Rescue for property managers, cleaning up their businesses, and we would love to help coach you and support you and your growth. [00:01:01] Jason: We have innovative strategies for building out growth engines, for building out your operational challenges, for helping you figure out how to get to the next level in your business and one of the cool tools that I'm excited to showcase today with my guest here, David Norman, is Vendoroo. We've had you on the show before. [00:01:19] Jason: Welcome back David.  [00:01:20] David: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It felt like years ago, it was only about, I think eight months ago since we did this, so much has changed over the time, so it's great to be back. Yeah, it's great to be back.  [00:01:29] Jason: Good to have you. I know you're in the middle of this AI revolution, which AI is just innovating and changing so rapidly. It probably does feel like years ago, so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been crazy. You guys have made a lot of changes too, so, you even changed your brand name from the last time we had you on the show. Yeah. Which was I think Tulu. Yeah. Right. And so, yeah. So why don't you get us caught up on what's going on 'cause, you know, there's been a lot.  [00:01:55] David: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you first of all for having me here today, Jason, and from the entire Vendoroo group of us, which, you know, the team has grown 10 x over the past eight months, which has been awesome. And I just also wanted to start in thanking everybody from what we call our client partners who have jumped in into this great unknown that is AI and is going to be like, how is this going to work in our industry? And so that's really what we've been focusing on the past eight months. You know, it's been a unbelievable journey of both failures, successes learnings and insights. And ultimately we're getting excited here at the NARPM broker owner which is in Denver to unveil Vendoroo. Like this is the coming out party. And so we're super excited if you're going to be there. We have a massive booth that we have set up that we have the ai alliance with other people that are working in the AI space, and I really hope that you guys come over and check it out. I promise this. [00:02:53] David: You'll never see a booth or a display like we have set up. At the NARPM broker owner. So.  [00:02:58] Jason: Now I want to go attend it. Yeah. Just so I can see your booth.  [00:03:01] David: So, let me put it this way. You may see the robot from the Jetsons walking around the booth walking around the NARPM broker owner, so, okay. [00:03:07] David: Yeah. Rosie? Yeah. You may see something like that. So she'll be vacuuming with her apron? Yeah. She'll be doing a little social engagement. It'll be cool. So, okay. Okay.  [00:03:17] Jason: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, so catch us up on what, like, let's get into the kind of the background and the overview for people that have never heard about Vendoroo and what you guys do and how you got into this. [00:03:29] Jason: Yeah. Give people kind of the backstory. Yeah.  [00:03:31] David: Yeah. Thank you for that. So really the backstory is that, you know, we know of this AI economy that's coming, right? And there was a few of us, you know, I've been in this industry for 18 years. You know, I've managed you know, portfolios of 40,000 doors. [00:03:47] David: I've managed them for governments. You know, I started off with our own property management. Much like you guys. We started off with 80 doors. We grew to 550 doors in four years. So it was exciting to know that technology that was coming that promised duplication because, you know, as any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best, right. [00:04:05] David: And so what we decided to do is to come together and say, Hey, if AI's coming, there's two things that we need to figure out. Number one is how is this going to help us show value in this new industry to this new generation of property owners that is here, that is coming, that has been raised in the technology world too, right? [00:04:25] David: And two, can it actually duplicate our efforts? Can it actually be an employee for us? Right? And I don't care what people are promising about ai, you don't know until you get into what we call like, you know, get into the weeds, you got to get into the trenches. And so that's what we did, right? We went out and we were the guys that grabbed the torch and we said, we are going to take all the risk. [00:04:46] David: We are going to jump into the mix. We're going to ask people to jump onto the bandwagon with us and we're going to figure this out. And oh my gosh, what an unbelievable eight months it has been in learning and insights. And I can't wait to get into all the things that we've learned about the property management industry. [00:05:01] David: But that's really what we've been focusing on here the past eight months, right? So we started off with well hey, can the AI assist the va? Can it turn them into a super va? Is that what it's going to be? And, you know, some people were like, yay. And some people were like nay, you know? And so, and you know, because that human failure still was there, right? [00:05:21] David: And you know, what happens if they left? There was that inconsistency. And then it was like, all right, well what can the AI own? Right? What can it do? What can it perfect? And you know, can AI actually be the last employee that I ever hire? Right. That's really, that's a really cool thing to do. [00:05:39] David: But the property managing community had some really specific demands that they said that if this is going to be the last employee that I've had, it has to do this. And that's what I'm excited about our new technology 'cause it's doing those things. You know? [00:05:52] Jason: Yeah. And now you guys have made some big moves. I know, like I've, I have clients that we've sent over to you and they've shared some incredible stories. Like one client, I think he had 154 units or something like under management, and he said in the first day you're of turning on Vendoroo, like it closed out like 80 something work orders. [00:06:12] Jason: Yeah, like, it was crazy. Another client, they had a little more doors. They said it was like 50 something work orders were closed out in the first day of turning it on. And so, I mean, you're creating some dramatic stuff. Like this is a very different thing than what people are used to in maintenance. [00:06:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. And really what the exciting part about this, Jason, is that maintenance is actually really easy. And I know people laugh when I say that it's managing communications that is extremely difficult. Okay. Okay. Right, because you have, you know what AI told us about our industry over the last eight months is when we dove in with it and it took a step back and it said, whoa, you guys don't have a data problem here. [00:06:51] David: You guys have a emotion problem here. There's very specific categories of emotion that are in this space, right? Like, how do you build a technology that senses something? And I know this relates with property managers, 'cause I know this for myself. A property manager can walk into their office, sit down at their desk, and their spidey senses go off and they know something's wrong. [00:07:15] David: There's no screen that's telling them anything. There's no spreadsheet. They know something's off. Right. And so the AI is like, well, the statuses really don't matter that much to me based upon the feedback that I'm seeing from the property managers. Because the status and the communication all seem to be in order, but there's a disruption somewhere. [00:07:35] David: So I need to know about people's emotions. I need to understand about is the resident happy? Does the owner feel supported? Is the vendor being directed? And does the property manager believe that I can own the outcome for this? And it was really cool to start seeing its learning and understanding and picking up on these cues where, you know, people say that this is a data-driven industry. [00:07:55] David: It's really in an emotion driven industry.  [00:07:57] Jason: Oh yeah. It's a relationship and emotion industry for sure. Yeah. Yeah, big time.  [00:08:01] David: And it's really cool to see, and it's really started happening over this past last 60 days, the amount of residents, I was actually just looking at one before I jumped on here, that are like thanking the system, right? [00:08:15] David: Imagine that, like think of all of us that actually worked with the chat bot at like Verizon. I've never thanked that chatbot at Verizon for being their customer service. Right.  [00:08:25] Jason: And how do I get a representative? Representative. Representative!  [00:08:28] David: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Versus you seeing people, you know, seeing individuals saying to the, you know, saying to the Vendoroo maintenance coordinator, Hey, I really appreciate feeling supported and how fast you acted because you know, there's empathy that's inside of its law and learning. So I don't want to get too much into the details on there. But yeah, these are some of the exciting things that we're working on.  [00:08:47] Jason: I mean, empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better. [00:08:52] David: Yeah,  [00:08:52] Jason: I mean they, they've done studies. Teams, even in working in warehouses, are more productive if the team has a higher level of empathy. Yeah. And doctors perform better. Yeah. If there's a higher level of empathy, there's less malpractice suits, like empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient. [00:09:10] Jason: I coach clients to add that in during sales. Yeah. 'cause their close rate goes up dramatically. Yeah. Right. So yeah. So leveraging and like getting the AI to actually be empathetic in its communication. Yeah. When that's probably not a natural skill for a lot of maintenance coordinators to be empathetic. [00:09:26] David: It's not, it's not a natural skill for a lot of people in the maintenance industry. Right? Yes. Especially when you talk about burnout. People begin developing views of the rental community, right? Like, oh my gosh, they're calling again, and that empathy meter goes lower and lower and lower. [00:09:41] David: Yeah. As people have been in the industry longer. But isn't it great that you have an employee now that knows that, yeah, it's my duty, rain or shine, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 a year to always operate at the highest level of empathy? I never have a bad day. I never take a day off. [00:09:57] David: I'm never upset. I'm never short with somebody on the phone, never tired, never like, oh my gosh, Susan is calling me again. I'm going to let the phone just ring because I'm annoyed of talking to her. And it just is constantly hitting that same level of standard. And this is what's exciting to me, is that there are people that that have played around with this and have been a part of what I call the pain phase, right? [00:10:20] David: The pain phase is that understanding the way that agentic AI works, right? It's input in output. Input, output, right? The more that you're putting into it, the better the results are that you're going to get out of it, okay? Right. It's just like training an employee. So over the last eight months, what we've seen is that the community has trained this to be the level of a person that has now been working in the industry for five years. [00:10:46] David: In eight months. It's got five years of learning in eight months. Okay. Wow. In the next six to 12 months, we're probably looking at somebody that has 10 to 15 years understanding in the next six to 12 months and understand the level of type of tasks that it can do, especially getting into estimates and getting some other work. [00:11:04] David: And again, just you know, having empathy in my own life towards the people that jumped in that are like, what is this all about? Like, how does AI fail? Like, you know, there's still people that are involved and it was like this big like momentous train of like, you know, all these people were jumping on and giving ideas and people are in the loop and now it's weeding everything out and the AI stepping in and saying. [00:11:27] David: Hey, I appreciate all the input that you've given me. Thank you for all your effort. I'm now ready to step up to the plate and to own the outcome. Right. And that's what we're seeing at the NARPM show that's coming out. There's five AI tools. There's a master agent, five AI tools. And you know, I'll give you a couple of pieces here that, you know, we had feedback from our property managers like number one across the board. [00:11:50] David: A property manager said, if I'm hiring AI as my last employee, that has to work in my system. Yeah. Okay. Right. Like I don't want another, I don't want another technology. Yeah.  [00:11:59] Jason: I don't want a new system I got to get every vendor to use or a new system I got to get my team to use or figure out. We don't need another tool to make our lives more difficult. [00:12:08] Jason: No. They've got to use our stuff.  [00:12:09] David: They got to use, we have our existing stack. Yeah. So now the AI is fully integrated into all the most common PMS systems. You know, you have a cool chrome extension that you can download and there's a little yellow kangaroo right right there. And it's actually reading the work order that you're working on, and you can literally just ask it a question now and just being like, Hey, did anybody express frustration or concern on this work order? [00:12:32] David: Right? Because that's the emotion behind the status that you need to know. And it's like, yeah, two days ago Sally said that, you know, she was actually really frustrated about the multiple reschedules by this vendor. And it's like, great, that's a person I should be reaching out to and that's what I should be knowing that a status is never going to tell you. [00:12:47] David: Right? Yeah. It's in your slack, right? So if I have, if I'm on my phone, I'm talking to my employee and I'm laying in bed and I have a panic attack as a property manager, and I'm like, oh my gosh, did we take care of John's refrigerator and the office is closed? I can't get ahold of my employee. Yeah, you can. [00:13:03] David: Your employee works 24 7 now. Hey, can you give me an update on the refrigerator replacement at John's place? Yeah, it was scheduled this day. I contacted John. Everything's good to go. You know, go to sleep. You know, like, like that's the power. Full audit. Full syncing. So it's in your platform. That's really cool. [00:13:21] David: The other thing, it's got to be branded, right? This is a thing that we really learned about, like how important branding is to the community of property managers, right? Yeah. So the communications that go out have to be from your area code that's done. The emails that go out have to have like, you know, your company name and your logo on it. [00:13:39] David: The AI is doing that as well too. So that's being sent out, which is really cool. So people are feeling like, you know, that loyalty to brand is super important. And also do you know now that the AI can ask the residents to give a Google Review and we can link to the Google reviews and give you instant Google reviews to your page through the ai, which is cool, like how it's, it will know that if the success of a Google review is high on the way that the work order was done, that it's probably best to ask this person and it will send them a little thing. [00:14:11] David: Hey, can we get a feedback from you? And we link up to your Google review. And it posts that Google review to generate those 'cause we know those are super, super valuable to property managers. So that's actually going out today. That's kind of a little teaser there. That's the emails out now. [00:14:23] Jason: Nice. We'll have to get you to also connect it to our gather kudos links for clients 'cause then people can pick which review sites. So it diversifies the review profile.  [00:14:32] David: Love it. Love that. I'm going to hook you up with our guy Dotan. He's running that. He's one of our head of product. He's, actually out of Israel. [00:14:39] David: He's a amazing guy. I'd love to get you connected with him. Yeah. Cool. Let's do it. Cool. And then the biggest one too is like, I need a single point of contact. Right. And we knew that before there was a lot of people were still involved. There was a lot of oversight that was going on there, having that confusion and single point of contact. [00:14:56] David: Now it's in your phone, it's in your Slack, it's in your phone extension. It doesn't matter what's going on. You have one point of contact. It's your employee. You ask the question, get the answer, Jason, you can even ask for a change. You can even say, Hey, I want to change a vendor on a job and you'll see that the vendor gets changed for you in the system. [00:15:17] David: You can even say to your ai, and this is the big one: hey how do you triage this work order? And I want you to do this, or I want you to do that. And you just do it right through Slack or right through your PM chat and it makes the change for you. And now you have custom triage and all property managers have the ability to train their own AI for their company. [00:15:36] David: Think how cool that is. A person with 75 doors now, and the product that's being released has their own AI agent customized for their company, right? Yeah. Like, that's what happened over the last eight months, so you can see my excitement. There's been a lot of hard work in this. [00:15:54] David: Yeah, that's amazing. But this has been all the effort and a huge thank you out to everybody who's tried us, you know, even said that this wasn't for them at that point in time because those learnings went into what's going to make this product the best product in the property management space and is going to help people leverage sales and leverage efficiencies and blow their owners' minds away in ways that, that we have never thought about. [00:16:15] David: Oh yeah.  [00:16:16] Jason: Yeah. So I know like initially when you rolled this out, a lot of people were nervous about AI and you guys had kind of a human layer in between the AI and any communication Yeah, initially. Yeah. And so there was like, they had like a reps and a lot of people associated, oh, I've got this rep. [00:16:33] Jason: Yeah. You know, Steven or whatever is my rep or Pedro and I've got Pedro and like, oh no, what if Pedro leaves? And they were associating with that while the AI is really doing the crux of the work. Right. And so you guys have shifted away from even that now the AI is directly communicating with people. [00:16:52] Jason: Correct? Yeah.  [00:16:53] David: Yeah. So let's talk about that. So, definitely, so in the beginning there was like, we all had like lack of trust. We believed what it was going to do, but it was like we had a ton of people still trying, like, you know, using qualified VAs, training them. Like, you know, like, you know, if it fails, like, you know, you have to have a person stepped in and so let's talk about that. [00:17:12] David: So, you know, it was definitely that human layer. And let's talk about where we're at today. It is very clear to us, and the one thing that separates us from everybody is we still believe that humans are super important in this process. Okay? Yeah. And where humans are very important in this process are going to be when the AI says, Hey, I need you to make a phone call to this person for me, right? [00:17:35] David: Hey, I've reached out to this vendor three times and they haven't responded yet. I need you to give a phone call to see what's going on. Right? Hey, I need you to recruit a vendor for me. I need you to reach out and do a recruitment for the vendor. For me. Hey, this owner is asking questions about this estimate. [00:17:51] David: I need you to give a call for me. So the AI is basically able, on a standard work order, the AI can handle 95% of the workflow, no problem. Work order comes in, gets assigned to the resident. It gets out to the vendor. It's under the NTE not to exceed. It's great. The work gets done, the resident uploads its photos, the AI says to the resident, are you happy? [00:18:14] David: Everyone's good. It closes the work order out. Cool. Right. And then if a human...  [00:18:19] Jason: and how is it communicating with the tenant and with the vendor typically? [00:18:24] David: Yep. So, it's very clear that and this isn't a surprise to anybody. Everybody loves text messages, right? Yeah. I mean, that's just, it's just what it is. [00:18:32] David: You literally, like, people will get a phone call and they won't pick up and the text will come back and like text back. Yeah, text me. What do you need? Yeah. Text me here. But, so here's the things that people don't see behind the scenes that we'll talk about. So the complexity that went into. [00:18:51] David: Mapping out how to allow vendors... so a vendor could have like 20 jobs, right? And we don't want to send him like a code that he has to text for every work order so that it links to the right work order. Like what guy wants to do that? Okay. Like that's not how he works. So we figured out how to allow a vendor through AI just to use his regular phone and text anything about this thing. And it's understanding it and it's mapping it, it's routing it to all those work orders because we knew that in order for this to be the last employee somebody would have to handle, it also means that the vendor has to be happy and the same for the resident. [00:19:30] David: They can just text that they have multiple work orders. It understands what work order it's going to. If it's not quite sure, I would ask them, Hey, is this question about this work order? And they say, yeah. And so there's not like, again, codes and links and things that they have to do. It has to be seamless if they're working with a person. [00:19:46] David: So yeah, text message is massive. Email is second, and then phone is third for sure.  [00:19:51] Jason: Got it. So is your AI system calling people yet or you or telling the property manager to make the phone call?  [00:19:58] David: Yeah. People are okay with. If they're calling in like our new front desk agent, which if a person calls in and they want to get information about a listing or if they want to get information about a work order or something like that, or, you know, they're okay with getting that type of information. [00:20:13] David: Yeah. But they are, it is very clear that they are not okay with AI calling them when they're asking for an update on a work order like that. Like that line in the sand very clear. Yeah. And so we have people on on the team. That are constantly monitoring into ai, giving feedback, hitting improvement. [00:20:31] David: I want everybody to know there is not a work order that is taking place that is not touched by a human at least twice.  [00:20:38] Jason: Okay.  [00:20:39] David: Okay. Right.  [00:20:40] Jason: So there's a little, there's some oversight there. There there's, you're watching this, there are humans involved  [00:20:45] David: And then the ai will when it hits certain fail points, right? [00:20:51] David: It then escalates those things up to what we call the human in the loop, right? So there's an AI assistant, we there's people now that we're training a whole new generation of people that are no longer going to be maintenance coordinators. They're AI assistants now, right? And so when the AI says, Hey, this work order is not going down the path that I think it should go to be successful. [00:21:12] David: I'm escalating this up to a human, and so now as a property manager, not only am I getting this AI agent workflow that's standardizing the empathy and the workflows and all the stuff that we talked about in the communications, I also now get a fractional employee that when the AI says, Hey, I need help, I already have an employee that it can reach out to that can make that phone call or call the vendor. [00:21:36] David: But it's also monitoring the AI for me on top of it. So yes, there is, and that's one of the big thing that separates us apart is that the platform comes with what we call a human in the loop, an expert in the loop and so we're training the first generation of AI assistants in the property management industry. [00:21:55] David: Yep.  [00:21:56] Jason: Got it. So the AI maintenance coordinator. Has human assistance. Yep. Underneath it.  [00:22:02] David: And before it was the other way around where Yeah. The AI was assisting the human right. And now the humans are assisting the ai. That's what's happened in the last...  [00:22:11] Jason: that may be the future of all of our roles. [00:22:12] Jason: So,  [00:22:13] David: If you're not reading articles and studying up on this I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly. Yeah. Learn how to write prompts. I'll tell everybody right now. Yes.  [00:22:21] Jason: Yeah. Interesting. So, now what about this, you know, there's the uncanny, you know, sort of stage where people get a little bit nervous about AI and what do they call it? The uncanny valley or something like this, or right where it gets, it's so close to human that it becomes creepy. And there's some people that have fear about this, that are concerned. You're going to have a lot of late, you know, adopters that are like resistant. "I'll never do ai." [00:22:49] Jason: What would you say to somebody when you get on a sales call and they're like, well, I'm really nervous about this AI stuff, you know, and they just, they don't get it.  [00:22:57] David: Yeah.  [00:22:58] Jason: I'm sure there's people listening right now. They're like, oh man, AI is going to kill us all and it's going to take over the world and it's going to take our jobs. [00:23:05] Jason: And they think it's evil.  [00:23:06] David: Yeah. Yeah. I, and you know, I really want to hear that fear and I want to like, again, have empathy towards that. 'cause I do understand that fear of change causes people to get... Change in general. Yes. Right. It's like, whoa, I like everything the way it's going to be. Right. And we are historically in one of those phases of like, you know, the industrial revolution, the renaissance, like the automobile from horse. [00:23:34] David: Like, this is what is taking place. This is, this will be written down in history. It's massive change. It's a massive change. Massive. So what I would say to them, and not to, not from a way of fear. But to inspire them is there are a lot of hungry entrepreneurs out there that are embracing this head on. [00:23:57] David: Yeah. That are pushing the boundaries and the limits to be able to bring insights and customer service to their clients at a much higher level. And if you want to compete in this new AI economy. I would definitely encourage you to understand and get in and start investing in yourself now. But understand that investing in AI means having some pain threshold. [00:24:21] David: Like you got to get in, like you, you need to be able to give the feedback. You need to understand that if it falls short, do you have to be able to give it the time and the energy and the reward and the payoff of what I'm seeing for property managers who've embraced that when they're sitting there and they're going, I don't touch maintenance at all anymore. Yeah, it's wild. Right? And those are the people that in the beginning of this relationship, and there's a few that come to my head, are the ones that were sending me emails constantly saying, David, this is failing me. I believe in this, but this is failing me. And as my technology partner, I know that you're going to help us get this better. [00:24:58] David: And there is, you know, I have this word down that struggle equals great con conversation, right? Like, and so they had a struggle and that opened up a great conversation and because of that, their technology and the technology is getting better. So yeah, I think that from a personal point of view in this industry, one thing that I want to solve with AI is I think that we can all say that over the past 15 years, we've probably yelled at a lot of vendors or yelled at a lot of VAs or yelled at a lot of people. Let's start yelling at the ai. And then hopefully that the AI will actually eliminate the need for us to ever have to yell at anybody again because it knows us. [00:25:36] David: Yeah. It never fails us.  [00:25:38] Jason: You know? It really is amazing. I mean, your company is creating freedom for the business owner from being involved in maintenance. Yeah. Really?  [00:25:46] David: Yeah.  [00:25:47] Jason: And it just, and they get used to that pretty quickly. Like maintenance is just running and they're like, yeah. It frees up so much head space for them to focus on growth. [00:25:56] Jason: It gives them a whole bunch of like just greater capacity. Yeah. So they feel like, yeah, we could handle adding any number of doors now and we know we can still fulfill and do a good job.  [00:26:07] David: Yeah. Fixed cost scaling. Right? That's a term that we came up with is now that you know that I have a price per door that will cover all my maintenance. So if I went in and brought on 75 doors, I know that I don't have to go out and hire another employee. The system just grows with it and I know exactly what my margin is for all those doors. Right. And as we know previous, before fixed cost scaling a property managers is like, I have enough people. [00:26:32] David: I don't have enough people. Someone quit, someone didn't quit. My profit margins are good. My profit margins are bad. Yeah. And now with these AI tools. You know, you have your front desk employee, you have your maintenance coordinator, you have these fixed cost scales, and now somebody calls you up and says, Hey, I want you to take on 25 doors, and you're like, I have the resource resources for maintenance, which is, we know is 80% of the workload already. I don't have to go out and hire another maintenance coordinator 'cause the system just grows with me, which is cool.  [00:27:00] Jason: So one of the things you shared at DoorGrow Live and you're our top sponsor for the upcoming... Can't wait for DoorGrow Live, can't wait to, so we're really excited to have you back so. [00:27:10] Jason: Everybody make sure you're at DoorGrow Live if you want. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management. And we're bringing, we're going to be showcasing, innovating pricing structures that are different than how property managers have typically historically priced, that allow you to lower your operational costs and close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:27:30] Jason: We're, we'll be showcasing a three tier hybrid pricing model that we've innovated here at DoorGrow, and we've got clients using it. It's been a game changer. We're going to be sharing other cool things about the future hiring systems, et cetera. Right. So you guys will also be there showcasing the future. [00:27:46] Jason: One of the things you shared previously that really kind of struck me as you showed, you did some research and you showed the typical cost. Per unit that most companies had just to cover and deal with maintenance. Yeah. And and then what you were able to get it down to.  [00:28:03] David: Yeah.  [00:28:04] Jason: And that alone was just like a bit of a mind blowing. [00:28:07] Jason: Could you just share a little bit of numbers here?  [00:28:09] David: Yeah. So one of the first things that we had to do when we started way back in the day is figure out well. Like, like what's the impact of AI going to be us from like a cost perspective, right? Is it a huge change? And so we went out on a big survey mission and we were surveying property managers and asking them, what's your cost per door for managing maintenance? [00:28:30] David: How much do you spend every door to manage maintenance? Now the first thing is less than 1% of property managers knew what that cost was. Sure.  [00:28:37] Jason: Oh, sure. Right. Because, but then they got to figure out, oh, we got a maintenance coordinator and we've got these people doing phone calls and they cost this, and yeah, it's complicated. [00:28:45] David: It's complicated. So we built a calculator. Okay. And then people could start adding in that information out into the calculator, and the average person was around $13 and 50 cents a door.  [00:28:56] Jason: Okay. Okay.  [00:28:57] David: Wow. Right, right. So that was where the average person was, somewhere in the low twenties. Yeah. [00:29:01] David: And others were actually pretty good. Like, I'd say like, you know, some of the good ones that we saw were maybe around like, you know, 10, $11 a door or something along that line.  [00:29:09] Jason: They probably had a large portfolio would be my guess.  [00:29:12] David: Yeah. And also I think a lot of it's just like, you know, I don't know if they were still accounting for all their software and everything that they had. [00:29:19] David: Maybe they're not factoring everything. Yeah. No, I think if we really dug in, it'd be different. So now we know that, you know, the base package of what people are getting in. The average cost of what people are paying for 24 7 services that's emergencies around the clock is about $7 and 50 cents a door, right? [00:29:37] David: So right off the bat in AI's first swing, it said we cut the cost in half. Yeah. Okay. Right. So 50% reduction. I mean, to me as an owner, a 50% reduction in cost. That's like. You know, alarms and celebration going off, you know? For sure. And then, yeah.  [00:29:55] Jason: And that's, if everything just stayed the same, like it was still the same level of quality, cutting in half would be a solid win right there. [00:30:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:30:03] David: Yeah. That's just like status quo stuff. And now what, with the release of the new Vendoroo product that, that's actually being announced here today. The email's going out to all of our existing clients of all the new features that are coming out now, we're starting to see that. You know that quality is now increasing to where if you were to go out and hire that person, you may have to be spending, you know, 55,000 or $65,000 a year. [00:30:29] David: Right? So now it's like saying, okay, if we can get as good as what these people are using for their VAs right, and we know what that cost is, and they're saying that's, you know, that's what their factors is. Well, what happens in the next six to 12 months when this is a seasoned person that you would've to pay $85,000 a year to? [00:30:45] David: Right. Yeah. And right, because they have knowledge of. Estimates and knowledge of vendor routing and knowledge of, you know, it can handle...  [00:30:53] Jason: you've invested so much time into them, so much attention. They know your properties and know your portfolio. They know the vendors. Like you've invested so much into this person that now they sort of have you by the balls so that they're like, Hey, I want 80 k or I walk.  [00:31:06] David: Yeah.  [00:31:06] Jason: You're like, you've got to come up with it.  [00:31:08] David: Yeah.  [00:31:09] Jason: Right. You've got to do it.  [00:31:10] David: Yeah.  [00:31:10] Jason: And you know, because that's not easy to create. And a lot of people, in order to have a good maintenance coordinator, they need a veteran of the industry. Veteran of industry. [00:31:19] Jason: They need somebody that's been doing this a long time.  [00:31:21] David: Yeah.  [00:31:22] Jason: And that's really hard to find.  [00:31:24] David: Yes. It's extremely hard to find as we know. One of the things that I think that we're doing for this industry is we're actually preserving knowledge that I don't think is necessary getting passed down. [00:31:33] David: Yeah. You know, there's a lot less people that I think are as handy as they once were in the Americas and so we have a lot of that knowledge. Like, you know, we know that the average age of an electrician is in the sixties, the average age of a plumber's in the sixties. And these guys, you know, they have wealth of knowledge that it can troubleshoot anything that's going on in a house. [00:31:54] David: And so to be able to try to preserve some of that, so maybe if a person does come in, you know, maybe there's some knowledge sharing along the lines. But let's take it even in another step forward Jason that in the future, you know, the AI is going to know the location of the hot water tank in that house. [00:32:10] David: It's going to then add it automatically to the system, like. It's going to know more knowledge than they will because it's going to have maps of every single property that's all currently sitting inside of, you know, that maintenance coordinator's head, right? And so it's going to, it's going to actually know more than them, you know. [00:32:26] Jason: Yeah. That's wild. Yeah, it is. Absolutely. It's the future. Cool. Well, you're rolling out a bunch of new features. You're announcing these today. You've told me a little bit, but why don't you tell the listeners what's changing, what's new, what innovations have come out? What are you guys launching? [00:32:41] David: Yeah. Exciting. Yeah. So, the biggest one I think is, which is the most exciting is, is Resiroo, which is the first one that actually handles all the communications with the resident and does the triage and troubleshooting. First one of what are you talking about? So we have our products. [00:32:57] David: So you have these AI tools, right? These agents. Right.  [00:33:00] Jason: And so, you know, every, so think of them like different sort of people?  [00:33:04] David: Skill sets. Yeah. Different person. Okay. Exactly. And so that's when you come and see our display at the NARPM conference, you'll actually will see these five agents kind of in their work desk and in their environments, kind of cool. [00:33:15] David: Okay. Able to see them right. So the coolest part about that one is we're doing a major product you know, update on that for not only the knowledge base, but we're actually turning that over to the company. We were talking about this a little bit before, and now they own their own AI agent and they can customize it into how they want it to ask questions or the type of questions and the mindsets when it's triaging stuff. [00:33:41] David: Triaging work orders for their portfolio. Like super cool. So fully customizable to your company, right?  [00:33:49] Jason: So now sometimes the more humans get involved, the more they mess stuff up.  [00:33:54] David: Yes. We make sure they don't mess it up. So everyone's going to learn how to write prompts and they'll submit it into us. [00:33:59] David: And we have a great team of AI engineers that when that knowledge base is written or what they're doing. We will ensure that it is put in so that it actually produces the desire outcome, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a very exciting one. The second one that I'm that I think is so cool, do you know that only 10% of all estimates get approved by the owner without one or multiple questions? [00:34:23] David: Because owners really struggle with trust when it comes to estimates. Like 10%. Like, that's a really bad number, I felt as the industry that owners only believe us one out of 10 times. Like that's the way I took that. Yeah. Right. And so, Owneroo is what I coined inside, is the estimate of the future. [00:34:41] David: That really was looking in understanding like what was, what questions was the owner asking when they were rejecting a bid that that we could proactively ask the answer for them to help guide them to understanding the value in this estimate that they're looking at in historical context of the property. [00:35:00] David: How many other people have experienced this issue? Like, like there's a whole bunch of factors that should go into an estimate and an estimate should no longer be like, here's a cost from Frank. Right? Like, like that was like, like that was...  [00:35:14] Jason: here's what Frank said it is. Yeah. Like that was like from the 1940s. [00:35:17] Jason: That's good. How do I trust that?  [00:35:18] David: How do I trust that? That was from the forties and we're still...  [00:35:21] Jason: how much went into this decision? Was this just out of the blue, like pulled out of your ass or is this like legit?  [00:35:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. What's the, you know, we live in a data-driven world, so what's the intellect behind this estimate? [00:35:33] David: And so I'm really excited about Owneroo, which is going to be the new standard for the way the estimates are created. We have the front desk agent which is coming out. So, that one is going to handle phone calls that are coming in, be able to talk about available listings, actual general questions about leases route phone calls over to property managers for you. [00:35:54] David: So again. Very human-like interaction, great AI voice. Actually. We feel it's going to be the best in the industry. So a person's calling in, just like they're calling your office able to handle all those front desk things. We, we have the PM chat, which is now the employee which is fully integrated into all of your systems. [00:36:14] David: It's in Slack. That's your employee that you get to talk to. We believe that if you're going to hire somebody, they should be inside of your communication channels. You have the Google Chrome extension that it's on right inside your AppFolio or your buildium or your Rentvine software that you can ask and talk to it. [00:36:31] David: So, yeah, so we have a lot of exciting products that have come out. And then of course the backbone of all of them in the middle is Vendoroo, which handles all the scheduling, all the communications. You know, a resident asks for an update, responds to them, an owner asks for an update, it responds to them. [00:36:48] David: And you know, it handles actually the body of the work order. So you have those five tools, we believe are what the property management industry said. If you are going to give me an employee, this is what the employee has to be. This is what makes up that employee. So we say that these tools, these agents were actually built by the property management industry. [00:37:08] David: And that excites me because if you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:37:25] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware.  [00:37:29] Jason: Yeah. So you guys connect with Slack. They can communicate through Slack, but it slack's a paid tool. Have you guys considered Telegram? I love Telegram Messenger.  [00:37:37] Jason: Alright. Could you do that? Write it down. Telegram Messenger is like the iMessage tool that works on every device. [00:37:44] Jason: It's free. It's one of the most secure, it's not owned or controlled by Facebook. Like, WhatsApp, like, yeah. But WhatsApp might be a close second, but we use Telegram internally, so I love Telegram.  [00:37:58] David: We'll definitely take that into, into consideration for sure. Yeah, check it  [00:38:02] Jason: out. Because I, what I love is the voice message feature and I can just listen to my team and others at like high speed, but internal communications and it's free for everybody, which is great. [00:38:12] Jason: So, yeah.  [00:38:13] David: Yeah. I think a lot, for a lot of people it was like you know, who was Vendoroo in the beginning and Vendoroo was like the team of like people that were trying to figure out like how is AI going to work in this industry? [00:38:26] David: How is it going to solve the needs of our property management partners? And this is why I say to everybody, if you thought about Vendoroo, if you came in and the experience wasn't great with Vendoroo, if you're one of our existing clients that has been with us and you're and you're still moving forward, and we thank you so much for your dedication to this, the Vendoroo product, everything that we've done, everything that we worked at is being showcased at the NARPM broker owner. The email's going out today. This is who Vendoroo is. We are a team that is a technology partner for the property management industry that is helping building meaningful AI tools, specifically by demand, by our industry to help us show value and to preserve this great industry. [00:39:09] David: For the future in this new AI economy, right? Like we need to step up. We have clients that are adding doors left and right because they're showing their clients that they use an AI maintenance system and their clients are like, this is what I expect from a property management in this community. [00:39:24] David: Right? And again, Owneroo, that estimate, we believe that in the future. Like, like owners are going to say like, I'm not approving an estimate unless it's like the estimate of the future, right? Like, like that's the new standard. So you got to know what the new standards are and you got to get technology that are going to help you compete with those new standards that will be in your community and are will be in your community in the next week, the next two weeks. [00:39:46] David: And definitely some really cool products in the next six months.  [00:39:49] Jason: All right. Well, yeah, I'm really excited to see what you guys have been able to create so far. So yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. All right. Well David, it's been awesome having you on the show. Sounds like you guys are really innovating the future. Everybody come to DoorGrow Live. David, are you going to be at that one? I will be there. All right, so you can come meet David in person. [00:40:08] Jason: We've got some amazing people that are going to be at this. We've got technology people. There's a gentleman there, one of the vendors they created another really cool tool, but he had a hundred million dollars exit, you know, in a previous business, like there's really amazing entrepreneurs and people at this event, so come to DoorGrow Live, get your tickets, and if you do, we have just decided that we're going to give out to anybody that registers. [00:40:34] Jason: You can pick from one of our free bonuses that are well worth the price of the ticket. Or coming or anything in and of itself, including our pricing secrets training that goes over a three tier hybrid pricing model or our sales secrets training, which goes over how we're helping property managers crush it and closing more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:40:55] Jason: And reputation secrets, which are helping our clients get way more positive reviews by leveraging the psychology and the law of reciprocity and getting the majority of their tenants in order to give them positive feedback online. Maybe some others. So you'll be able to pick from these bonuses one of these that you might like and that's our free, most incredible free gift ever that we'll give to each person that registers for DoorGrow Live. [00:41:19] Jason: So.  [00:41:20] David: Cool. Awesome man. Always great to see you. Looking forward to seeing you at DoorGrow Live and love that you guys are working on pricing because AI is going to make people think different about pricing. It's going to be way more efficient, so you guys are ahead of the curve on that. Great job, Jason. [00:41:33] Jason: Awesome. All right, so how can they check out Vendoroo, David?  [00:41:36] David: Just visit, Vendoroo.ai, go to the website, request a demo with one of our great sales reps, and yeah they'd love to help you out. See all the new products, see how far it's come. And again, we thank everybody from the bottom of our hearts for all their effort, people who've tried us out. [00:41:52] David: Come back and see what you built and yeah. Come check us out at Vendoroo.  [00:41:57] Jason: Got it. Go check out Vendoroo, it's vendor. If you know how to spell that, V-E-N-D-O-R-O-O dot A-I, go check it out. All right? And if you're a property management entrepreneur, you want to add doors, you want to make your business scalable, you want to get out of the day to day, you want to increase the capacity so your company could easily handle another 200 plus doors without having to make any significant systems changes, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We will help you figure it out. So until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

Apple Updates Apple released updates for iOS, iPadOS, macOS, and VisionOS. The updates fix two vulnerabilities which had already been exploited against iOS. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Apple%20Patches%20Exploited%20Vulnerability/31866 Oracle Updates Oracle released it quarterly critical patch update. The update addresses 378 security vulnerabilities. Many of the critical updates are already known vulnerabilities in open-source software like Apache and Nginx ingress. https://www.oracle.com/security-alerts/cpuapr2025.html Oracle Breach Guidance CISA released guidance for users affected by the recent Oracle cloud breach. The guidance focuses on the likely loss of passwords. https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/alerts/2025/04/16/cisa-releases-guidance-credential-risks-associated-potential-legacy-oracle-cloud-compromise Google Chrome Update A Google Chrome update released today fixes two security vulnerabilities. One of the vulnerabilities is rated as critical. https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2025/04/stable-channel-update-for-desktop_15.html CVE Updates CISA extended MITRE s funding to operate the CVE numbering scheme. However, a number of other organizations announced that they may start alternative vulnerability registers. https://euvd.enisa.europa.eu/ https://gcve.eu/ https://www.thecvefoundation.org/

Gina Giachero is the musical director of the 50th Anniversary Gala. She joined Summer Stage in 2007 as an accompanist. She was the musical director for Ragtime, My Favorite Year, The SpongeBob Musical, and many other mainstage classics. Her vibrant personality shines through in her hilarious Summer Stage stories. So, come along and have some fun!We all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here. Welcome to Brave and Strong and True, a podcast that engages Summer Stage alumni of all ages. I'm Bob Falkenstein. We all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here.Our music is composed and performed by Neil McGettigan https://neilmcgettiganandtheeleventhhour.bandcamp.com/releases. Please click on the link to visit Neil's BandCamp website to listen to songs from his album, including cut number 7, “Harry Dietzler.” Please support Neil's work by buying downloads of your favorites.Please follow Brave and Strong and True on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, please rate the show and leave a comment.  If you want to be a guest on Brave and Strong and True, please contact me at braveandstrongandtrue@gmail.com. I can record five guests simultaneously so reach out to your friends for an online mini-reunion.You must have the latest version of the Google Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop computer. I can now record interviews with guests who have iPads or iPhones. It helps if you have an external microphone and headphones, but Apple earbuds work too; however, BlueTooth ones are not 100% reliable, so see if you can borrow wired ones.Support the showUpper Darby Summer Stage is now part of the non-profit organization known as the Upper Darby Arts and Education Foundation. Harry Dietzler is the Executive Director of the UDAEF. If you are able to support Summer Stage financially, please visit udsummerstage.org to find out more.

XORsearch: Searching With Regexes Didier explains a workaround to use his tool XORsearch to search for regular expressions instead of simple strings. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/XORsearch%3A%20Searching%20With%20Regexes/31834 MCP Security Notification: Tool Poisoning Attacks Invariant labs summarized a critical weakness in the Model Context Protocol (MCP) that allows for "Tool Poisoning Attacks." Many major providers such as Anthropic and OpenAI, workflow automation systems like Zapier, and MCP clients like Cursor are susceptible to this attack https://invariantlabs.ai/blog/mcp-security-notification-tool-poisoning-attacks Making :visited more private Google Chrome changed how links are marked as visited . This new partitioning scheme was introduced to improve privacy. Instead of marking a link as visited on any page where it is displayed, it is only marked as visited if the user clicks on the link while visiting the particular site where the link is displayed. https://developer.chrome.com/blog/visited-links

What do Spotify, Google Meet, and your expense report tool have in common? They could all delight your users—if you design for more than just function. In this episode, Dr. Nesrine Changuel breaks down the emotional motivators that transform average products into unforgettable ones. Overview What separates a good product from a great one? According to Dr. Nesrine Changuel, it's not just meeting functional needs—it's creating emotional delight. In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian Milner sits down with Nesrine, a former product leader at Google, Spotify, and Microsoft, to explore how emotional connection is the secret sauce behind the world’s most beloved products. They dive into Nesrine’s “Delight Framework,” reveal how seemingly mundane tools (like time-tracking software or toothbrush apps!) can create joy, and explain why delight isn’t a nice-to-have—it’s a competitive edge. Whether you're a product owner, product manager, or just want to build better user experiences, this episode will change how you think about your backlog forever. References and resources mentioned in the show: Dr. Nesrine Changuel Product Delight by Dr. Nesrine Changuel Blog: What is a Product? by Mike Cohn #116: Turning Weird User Actions into Big Wins with Gojko Adzic #124: How to Avoid Common Product Team Pitfalls with David Pereira Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Dr. Nesrine Changuel is a product coach, advisor, and speaker with over a decade of senior product management experience at Google, Spotify, and Microsoft, where she led major consumer products like Chrome, Meet, Spotify, and Skype. She holds a Master’s in Electrical Engineering and a PhD in Media Processing and Telecommunications and is based in Paris. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian Milner (00:00) Welcome back Agile Mentors. We're back for another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm with you as always Brian Milner and today I have a very special guest with me. I have Dr. Nesrine Changuel with me. Welcome in Nesrine. Nesrine (00:14) Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me. Brian Milner (00:16) I'm very excited to have Nesreen with us. I think this is going to be a really, really great episode for all of you product owners out there or product specialists, anybody who works in the product area. I think you're going to find this really interesting and you're going to want to bookmark this one. Maybe even come back to this a little bit. Nesreen is a coach, a speaker, particularly in the product area. She has previously worked at Google. She's worked at Spotify, at Microsoft, so no stranger to large enterprise, very high profile products that she's worked on in the past. She has a book coming out in May, so look for this book. It's called Product Delight. And that's really what we're going to be focusing on here is the concept of eliciting or generating kind of an emotional response to our product. I guess I'll start by, did you stumble upon this? What drew your interest to people's emotional response to products? Nesrine (01:19) Yes, so maybe I can share the story how I came to this topic and how I became so vocal about it. So in addition to being a product manager and leader over the last decade, I was always and I always enjoyed being a speaker. So I always wanted to go on stage and share insight. This is probably coming from my research background, because when I used to be a researcher, I traveled the world to go and present my research work and When I became a product manager, I kept this habit with me. So I always been on stage and I spoke about different topics like product discovery, product operation, different topics. Until one day I got reached out by a conference organizer and he said, Hey, Nisri, we want you on stage, but we have an idea for a topic for you. I'm not that used. Usually I come up with idea myself, but I said, okay, what do want me to talk about? And he said, Hey, Nusreen, you have been working for Spotify, for Microsoft, for Google Chrome and Google Meet, and we all admire those products and we consider them very successful products. What if you come and tell us what's the common thing that probably is there any common thing that made those products successful? Being an insider, being within those company, could you share with us something that you consider in common between those products? To be honest with you, I found it challenging at the same time interesting as an exercise. I was not, by the way, able at that time to answer the question, what's in common? So I sat down and I did the exercise myself and I started to think what was really in common? What made Skype Skype? What made Spotify Spotify and those Google products so successful? And I came to the following conclusion. I found that what made those products so successful is that they don't only solve for functional needs, but they also solve for emotional needs. So when we use a particular product, we use it for a certain functional need, but we also use it for an emotional need. And without even knowing that I have been doing it for more than 12 years, I came to the conclusion that, my God, during all those years, I have been focusing so much into users need from both angle, functional and emotional. So I came on stage and I spoke about that topic and from that day, I started to give it a name. I'm calling it emotional connection. I'm calling it product delight. And I'm here to share more about it as well. Brian Milner (03:50) That's awesome, yeah. I mean, I think we do hear a lot and we focus a lot on that functional kind of need, the way you differentiate there. think that's a good differentiation, functional and emotional kind of needs or motivators there. yeah, I mean, I've always heard, know, kind of that kind of general product advice is, you know, find the things that... people really, really have as huge needs, the things they would pay someone to do for them. And that's the key to success is finding those huge needs. But we're actually going beyond that to say, yeah, those are important. It's not to say that we should skip that, but it's when there's the emotional connection to a feature or to something that we do that really the light bulb kind of comes on for our customers. Is that kind of what your research is leading to? Nesrine (04:40) you're getting it right. Don't get me wrong. Of course you have to honor the functional needs and serve the functional feature, but the delight or the emotional connection happens when you go beyond exactly how you said it. Let me explain. If you serve only functional needs, you know what you get? You get satisfied users because they are asking for something and they are satisfied about what they are receiving. Now, Brian Milner (04:41) Okay, okay. Haha. Nesrine (05:05) If you surprise them by going beyond, by anticipating their need, by exceeding their expectation, you're not only satisfying them, you're surprising them in a positive way and delight is the combination of surprise and joy. Actually, the theoretical definition of delight is a combination of two emotions, surprise and joy. So going beyond, anticipate need and exceed expectation. is what we should aim for in addition to the functional needs. Brian Milner (05:35) That's awesome. Yeah, I use this example sometimes in, we use this example in the agile world to talk about, you know, the part of the agile manifesto that says customer collaboration over contract negotiation. And, you know, there's an example I use from my past where I used to work at a company that was very contract driven. And, you know, the thing that I always used to kind of take away from that was the very best we could ever do or hope to do. was to meet our customers' expectations. We could never, ever exceed it because we were only doing exactly what they told us to do. So I think this is a really important distinction here to make that just meeting the customer's needs, just meeting the minimal customer satisfaction bar, that's not going to keep you with loyal customers. That's not going to have repeat customers, or they're not going to tell their friends about, you know. That product did exactly what I hoped it would do. But it didn't really surprise me. It didn't really go beyond that. I know you talked about, because I've read your blog and a little bit of the discussion about this. So I know you talk about in the blog kind of the connection to Kano analysis. And I've always thought that's a really great way to try to determine things to target and go after. So talk to us a little bit about that, about Kano analysis and kind of what that uncovers and how that connects to what your research has shown. Nesrine (06:51) Yes. I love Kano by the way. I, I mean, that's one of the framework I have been considering throughout most of my product career. But this framework comes with a limitation and let me explain. So first of all, for those who are not very familiar with Kano, Kano is a visualization or categorization, let's call it. It's a categorization framework that allows to categorize features among different categories. One of them is must have. So these are the things that absolutely have to be in the product. Other that are performances, which are the more you have, the more satisfied users are, the less they less satisfied they are. And of course there are the delighters and delighters are those feature that when they are in the product, users are surprisingly happy. And when they are not, are not even the satisfaction is not even impacted. So the limitation of Kano is that it doesn't tell you how to achieve delight. Let me explain. I think we live in a world that everyone agree that we should delight our users. I mean, this, this concept is now globalized and everyone is talking about delighting users. The issue is that we don't know how to delight them. So we know category, there's a category that called delight, but we don't know how to. So the, the framework that I'm introducing and I'm calling it the delight framework is the framework that allows to first identify. So it's usually, represented into three steps. The first step is to start by identifying the emotional and functional motivators. So let me give you an example. I've been working at Spotify for about four years and as a Spotify user, imagine yourself, you are a Spotify user. You do have, of course, functional motivators. What could be the functional motivators? Listening to music, listening to podcasts, maybe listening to an audiobook. So all those are functional motivators. Now, what could be the emotional motivators as a Spotify user? It could be feeling less lonely. It could be feeling more productive because when you're working you need to listen to something. It could be about changing your mood. It could be about feeling connected. So all those are emotional motivators that drive users to use a product like Spotify. So what I encourage every product manager or every product team to do at first is to dig into identifying, of course, the functional need. And everyone is good, by the way, in identifying the functional needs. But also, while doing that exercise, pay attention to what could be the emotional motivators. So that's step number one is about listing the functional and the emotional motivators. Once you have those, Now we get to the second part of the framework, which is look at your backlog. And I guess you have a very busy backlog and take those features one by one and see for this particular feature, which motivator am I solving for among the functional ones and among the emotional ones as well. So the delight grid, for example, is a visualization tool that I came and created in order to allow product teams to visualize their backlog and see how many of my features are only solving for functional motivators. In that case, we call that category low delight. How many of my features are only solving for emotional motivators? These are very rare, but the best example I would call is, for example, I'm having an Apple watch and one month ago it was New Year Eve and at midnight I get fireworks popping out of my Brian Milner (10:35) Ha Nesrine (10:36) Apple watch and it was a happy new year there's nothing functional in there but it's all about creating some smile I call this surface delight and then how many of your features are solving for both functional and emotional motivators and I call this deep delight so maybe I deviated a bit from your question compared to canoe but it's actually about adding this dimension of connecting features to the real motivators of the users. Brian Milner (11:07) No, maybe a little bit, but you connected it to where we end up going anyway. So I think that's a great connection there. And by the way, for anyone listening, we'll link to all of this so that you can find this and follow up. But I like that differentiation between surface delight and deep delight. I know some of the examples that I've heard used kind of frequently in looking at Kano analysis and kind of trying to find those delighters. And that is kind of the area that it specifies there in Canoe, right? You're trying to find those things that are not expected, but when people find that they're there, they like that it's there, but they don't expect it's there. So if it's not there, there's no negative response that it's not there, but there's a positive response if it's there because they like seeing it. And my boss, Mike Cohn, tells this story about this Nesrine (11:59) Yes. Brian Milner (12:03) There's a hotel in California that became famous because at the pool, they have a phone that's by the pool that's the Popsicle Hotline. And you can pick up the phone and you can order a Popsicle to be brought to the pool. And it's the kind of thing where you're not going to go search for a hotel. Does this hotel have a Popsicle Hotline? I'm only going to stay at hotels with Popsicle Hotlines. It's not that kind of a normal feature. It's a delight feature because when you see it and you find out it's there, it's like, that's really cool. And it can be the kind of thing that says, yeah, I want to search that hotel out again next time I'm in this area because I really thought that was a nice little attention to detail and it was fun. But I think what I'm hearing from you is that might be more of what we would classify as a surface delight. It's not really meeting a deep need. Nesrine (12:35) Yes. Brian Milner (12:56) But it's fun, it's exciting, it's not expected, but it doesn't really cross that threshold into, but it also meets kind of functional delights. Is that kind of what you're saying there? Okay. Okay. Nesrine (13:08) Yes, actually I heard about that hotel story just to tell you how much viral it went. It came to me. So actually you get it correct that I consider that as surface delight and I have nothing against by the way, surface delight. You can add surface delight. The issue is you can end up doing only surface delight and that's not enough. So the idea is to do a combination and I do have two stories to share with you just to compliment on this hotel story. One is personal and one is professional. Brian Milner (13:21) Yeah. Okay. Nesrine (13:37) The personal one just happened to me a month ago. I went to Sweden and I went to Stockholm. That's where I worked for eight years. And I went there for business and I decided to meet some friends and some ex-colleagues. So we all gathered and went to a restaurant, a very nice restaurant in Sweden. And came the time where we had to say goodbye and to pay. And I guess you can feel it immediately when it's about paying and we are a large group and you start to get that anxiety about who's paying what and what did I order? What did I drink? What? I mean, I honestly hate that moment, especially in a large group where you don't necessarily have a lot of affinity with us. Like, should we split in 10? Should we pay each one paying its piece anyway? So that was a moment of frustration, of anxiety. Brian Milner (14:09) right. Yeah. Nesrine (14:28) And I loved how the restaurant solved it for it. You know how they solve for it? I mean, maybe it exists in the U.S., but for me, that's something I never seen before. The waiter came with a QR code on a piece of paper and you scan the QR code. And when you scan your QR code, you get the list of items that got purchased by the table. And all you have is to pick, and that happens automatically real time. Everyone is picking at the same time. You pick the things from the list and you pay. for the things that you order. You can even tip on the bottom. You can give feedback. Everything happened on that QR code. And you can guess how much that anxiety could be removed. So that's the personal story I wanted to share. The second story, which is more professional, I want to share how we try to improve experience at Google Chrome. So I've been the product manager at Google Chrome. Brian Milner (15:13) Yeah. Nesrine (15:25) And we started from the observation that people do have plenty of open tabs. I guess you are one of them, especially on mobile. Like on mobile, you go and check how many open tabs you do have on Chrome and you realize that they are have, we realized at least out of numbers, out of data that people do have plenty of open tabs. So it started as Brian Milner (15:32) You Nesrine (15:47) technical issue. Of course, the more tab you have, the heavier the app is, the slower the app could be, et cetera. So we wanted to reduce the number of unnecessary open tabs in Chrome. So we interviewed users and we started to check with them, why do they even leave their tabs open? So some of them leave tabs because they consider them as a reminder. I mean, if tab is open, it means that you need to finish a task there. Some people really leave tabs just for ignorance. mean, they moved from a tab to another and they completely forget about them. Actually, we realized that the fact of leaving tab open, the reason for leaving tab could be completely different from a person to another. And the other interesting observation, and when I say identify emotional motivators, you will realize that people feel a bit ashamed when they show to us that they do have plenty of open tabs. Some of them would say, sorry, I usually don't even have so many open tabs. It's only now. And I'm like, it's okay. But the point is, if you have this mindset of trying to track the emotional insight from your users, you will take note. And the note was anxiety, feeling ashamed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that was in introduction for in... Brian Milner (16:42) You Yeah, right. Nesrine (17:04) improving the tab management experience later on in Chrome. Brian Milner (17:07) That's actually a really good parallel, though. I think that's a good example because it reminds me, too, even going back, I remember one of the things, and I'm going way back here, but I remember one of the things about Gmail that was kind of a selling point initially was the concept there of you don't have to worry about maintaining an inbox. keep all your mails and search. And you can search through your mails and find whatever it is. And I remember prior to that, most people would use something like Outlook or something like that to have their mail, there was always this constant struggle of, I've got to keep it down. I've got to delete things. I've got to categorize things. And Google had this different approach of, don't worry about it. Just leave it. And that's a good, I think, example as well of kind of that emotional response of, Nesrine (17:48) Yes. Brian Milner (17:56) Gosh, I'm kind of anxious. I feel bad that my inbox is so big. And I know that's bad, but Google comes along and says, don't worry about it. You're not bad. It's OK. Yeah. Nesrine (18:05) Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I think Gmail is filled with plenty of deep delight features. One of them I can quickly highlight is, you know, when you send an email, we're saying attached file and the file is not there. And when you try to hit send, you get that pop up like a be careful or like a mind, there is no attached file inside. These are for me like very attached to the fact that You don't want to feel ashamed. You don't want to look stupid later on saying, Hey, sorry, I forgot the file. Here's the file. That's, that's a great example. And the other example that come to mind again in Gmail, you know, that smart compose when you're trying to answer an email and you can just hit tab, tab, tab to complete the sentence. I mean, the functional need is to write an email. The emotional need is to get it in a relaxed way. And the combination would allow for something like. Brian Milner (18:49) Yeah. Nesrine (19:00) Smart Compose. Brian Milner (19:01) That's awesome. Yeah, so I guess that leads to the question though, when we're talking about something like Spotify, mean, music intrinsically is emotional anyway, right? It's something that you have an emotional connection to and you feel a certain way when you hear music. But if my product is a, I don't know, expense reporting software, right? Nesrine (19:23) Mm-hmm. Brian Milner (19:25) I can just hear people out there kind of asking, know, and kind of thinking to themselves, yeah, but my product, right, my product is not that kind of, it doesn't elicit that kind of emotional response in people the same way music would. So does this apply to me as well? So how would you answer those people who feel like my products might be a little bit more bland or boring and don't really intrinsically have an emotional connection to them? Nesrine (19:47) Mm-hmm. So my answer is that if your product is boring, then it's even more priority now to focus on emotional connection. But let me elaborate. So that's one of the reflections that came to my mind while writing the book. So while writing the book, I wanted the book to be a storytelling book. So I was writing a lot of my stories, stories from Skype at the time, Spotify and all the Google product. But at some point I said, hey, hey, Nisreen, you need to get more insight from other people and other experiences. So I get to interview product leaders from completely different industries and completely different domain. I interviewed leaders from B2B like Atlassian or Intuit and so many other companies that I don't have so much insight from. I even interviewed people from hardware, like I interviewed someone from Dyson and I was, hey, what makes Dyson so emotionally attractive for me? Cause I love my Dyson vacuum cleaner. But let me get to your point because when I interviewed someone from Intuit, that person told me something super interesting. She told me that at some point she was working at a tool called Tsheet. And Tsheet is a tool that allows you to enter your time report. There is nothing more boring than that. I think I'm picking the one that you're looking for here because it's, it's as a user. The only reason I would use this tool is to report my time so I can get paid. Brian Milner (21:06) Hmm. Right. Yeah. Nesrine (21:19) There is nothing exciting, nothing emotional. And what I got out of that product leader who used to be the head of product at the time, she told me that they were completely aware about the fact that the product is not that attractive. And instead of living with that observation, they did all what they could do to make it even more attractive. So they added some fun. They made the messaging less aggressive and less about enter your time. report but rather into more playful and even the images are more playful. When you press the enter time report you get the congratulation and some confetti if needed. So they explicitly turned and that's a strategy. They turned that boring moment into something even more attractive and they had to do that otherwise the experience will keep on becoming more more boring and the perception of users toward the product will be even less, more and more gray, I would say. Brian Milner (22:22) Yeah, yeah, just that little dopamine kind of kick, right? Just that little bit of chemical reaction in your brain can make a huge difference. That's awesome. That's a great story and a great answer to that question. So I'm curious, we're talking about trying to find these things and trying to see, your matrix here, it thinks about the emotional motivators, the functional motivators, and trying to find those things that kind of cross both planes. Nesrine (22:24) Yep. Brian Milner (22:52) How do you verify at the end? Because if you're lining your features up and think, I think this solves this emotional thing. I think this solves this functional thing. Is there a way to follow up to ensure that it actually is doing that? How do you follow up to make sure it's really doing what you thought it would do? Nesrine (23:09) Yes, so let's imagine you did the exercise well, you filled in the delight grade and you observed that you do have plenty of low delights, which is most of the cases by the way. The very first thing I recommend is to see opportunities for moving or transforming these features into deep delight. And in the book, for example, I talk about the nine delighters. Nine delighters are ways that could be sometimes cheap even to introduce. in order to make those low delight features into more deep delight. This could be, for example, through personalization. We love when the features are personalized, and that's one of the reasons, for example, why Spotify is so successful, is through features like Discover Weekly or RAPT or these kinds of super personalization related features. It could be through seasonality. That's, for me, the cheapest and the most delightful feature you can or aspect of feature you can add to your product. So for example, when I worked at Google Meet, I've been working at the background replace features. So we have been, of course, introducing static image. We have been introducing video backgrounds as well. But from time to time, we always use seasonality to introduce what we call seasonal background. So when it's Easter, we introduce Easter background. When it's Christmas, we introduce Christmas background. Guess what? Even like for Olympic game, we introduce Olympic game background. When it's the Earth Day, we introduced Earth Day background. So there is always an opportunity to introduce some seasonality to the product. And guess what? We relate to those, especially if the product is global. We relate like last, when was it? Like last Wednesday. It was the new year, the Chinese new year. And I was checking when is exactly the exact date for the new year, the Chinese new day. And I put that and you know what happened in Chrome? It got these dragons and those like the celebration within the product, like within Chrome. These of course are surface delight, but you know what? Why not? You see? So there are some tools. Some of them are not that... Brian Milner (25:17) Right. Nesrine (25:22) expensive to introduce to the product. Some would require a bit more thoughtful and thought into it, but there are ways that I detail in the book in order to introduce more delight. And then if you want to validate through metrics, and I guess that's your question where it's heading to, then the good news, and that's something that I discovered recently because there's been a study that was conducted by McKinsey. And you know what they studied? They studied the impact of emotional connection on product adoption. So they actually studied over, I don't know how many industries die, like tourism, IT, energy, whatever. And they interviewed more than 100,000 users or whatever. So the conclusion that they found out of that very interesting study is that emotionally connected users will get you more twice as more revenue, twice as more referral, and twice as more retention compared to satisfied users. I'm not talking about the non-satisfied. So if you take two groups of users, those that you satisfy their needs and those that you go beyond and they are emotionally connected, those that are emotionally connected get you twice revenue, referral and retention. Brian Milner (26:19) Hmm. Nesrine (26:43) So this is just to highlight that for people who say, no, but this is the cherry on the top. This is just like the extra. It's not the extra, it's the way to stand out. I don't know any company that is standing out nowadays without investing into emotional connection, none. Brian Milner (26:54) Yeah. That's a really good point. Yeah, I mean, the example that comes to my mind when you talked about seasonality and other things like that, know, I love my, you know, they're not a sponsor, Oral-B toothbrush, you know, the electronic toothbrush, and you know, there's an app with it and it keeps track of, you know, did you get all the areas of your teeth and did you hold it there long enough and... One of the things I always love about it is when it gets to December, the opening screen when you open up the app starts having snowfall. It's kind of a funny little emotional response, but you look at that and you think, that's cool. Yeah, it is kind of that season where now it's time to get ready for Christmas and it's that special. It's only this month that it's going to be like that. It's going to go away at the end of the month. Nesrine (27:45) Yes. Brian Milner (27:49) feel little sad when it's gone, it's back to normal. But it's such a silly little thing. Does that make any difference in really brushing my teeth at all? Does it change how well I brush my Not really. It's just a fun little thing that when it pops up there. And think how little that took from someone to do that. It's a little animation that they just pop up on a loading screen. But that little tiny bit, think, again, maybe a little bit surface. Nesrine (28:10) Yes. Brian Milner (28:16) but it takes something that would have been routine. It takes something that would have been kind of boring otherwise, and it just added a little bit of fun to it, you know? And I think you're right, that emotional connection is really, really important in situations like that, yeah. Nesrine (28:21) Yes. Yes. Yes, yeah. And the thing that I'm very vocal about nowadays is the fact that this emotional connection is actually not a new topic. It's something that has been extremely popular among marketers. For example, if you think about the best marketing campaign, they are all very emotional. The most successful marketing campaign are. If you think about designers, there are plenty of resources about emotional design. There is a great book by Don Norman. It was called emotional design. Aaron Walter as well wrote something called Designing for Emotion. But you know, the problem is that among engineers and among product manager, we don't talk that much about that. And you know what happened when we are not informed about this topic? There is a gap between the language of marketers, designers, and the engineers and product manager. And that gap doesn't allow things to succeed. I'm trying to educate the engineers and the product world towards this well-known domain outside of the product in order to have this consistency and start making real impactful products. Brian Milner (29:40) Yeah, yeah, this is such a really deep topic and it just encourages me, think, even more to recommend the book there. It's not out yet, time of this recording it's not out, but it's going to be in May of 2025. That's when this book is coming out. And I know it's gonna have a lot of really good information in it. Again, the book is gonna be called Product Delight. by Nesrine Changuel, Dr. Nesrine Changuel. I should make sure I say that. But I really appreciate you coming on because this is fascinating stuff. And I think the product managers, the product owners that are listening here are going to find this really fascinating. So I appreciate you sharing your time and your insights with us, Nesrine. Nesrine (30:26) Thank you, it's my pleasure. I love talking about this topic. Brian Milner (30:29) Ha

Leveraging CNNs and Entropy-Based Feature Selection to Identify Potential Malware Artifacts of Interest This diary explores a novel methodology for classifying malware by integrating entropy-driven feature selection with a specialized Convolutional Neural Network (CNN). Motivated by the increasing obfuscation tactics used by modern malware authors, we will focus on capturing high-entropy segments within files, regions most likely to harbor malicious functionality, and feeding these distinct byte patterns into our model. https://isc.sans.edu/diary/%5BGuest%20Diary%5D%20Leveraging%20CNNs%20and%20Entropy-Based%20Feature%20Selection%20to%20Identify%20Potential%20Malware%20Artifacts%20of%20Interest/31790 Malware found on npm infecting local package with reverse shell Researchers at Reversinglabs found two malicious NPM packages, ethers-provider2, and ethers-providerz that patch the well known (and not malicious) ethers package to add a reverse shell and downloader. https://www.reversinglabs.com/blog/malicious-npm-patch-delivers-reverse-shell Google Patched Google Chrome 0-day Google patched a vulnerability in Chrome that was already exploited in attacks against media and educational organizations in Russia https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2025/03/stable-channel-update-for-desktop_25.html

In this CME podcast, Dr. Andrew Cutler and Dr. Roger McIntyre discuss the use of potentially unsafe drug combinations in patients with treatment-resistant psychiatric conditions. They review situations where complex medication regimens may be necessary and how clinicians may proceed in these instances. By addressing these topics, the podcast offers guidance on balancing the potential benefits of combination therapies with the risks associated with polypharmacy in psychiatric care.  Target Audience: This activity has been developed for the healthcare team or individual prescriber specializing in mental health. All other healthcare team members interested in psychopharmacology are welcome for advanced study. Learning Objectives: After completing this educational activity, you should be better able to: Identify common potentially unsafe drug combinations that may be considered in treatment-resistant cases Evaluate the risks and benefits of prescribing potentially unsafe drug combinations for treatment-resistant patients, considering factors such as efficacy, adverse effects, and patient-specific characteristics Develop strategies to monitor and manage patients prescribed potentially unsafe drug combinations Accreditation: In support of improving patient care, this activity has been planned and implemented by HMP Education and Neuroscience Education Institute (NEI). HMP Education is jointly accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME), the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE), and the American Nurses Credentialing Center (ANCC), to provide continuing education for the healthcare team. Activity Overview: This activity is available with synchronized audio and is best supported via a computer or device with current versions of the following browsers: Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, or Safari. A PDF reader is required for print publications. A post-test score of 70% or higher is required to receive CME/CE credit.   Estimated Time to Complete: 1 hour. Released: March 26, 2025*   Expiration: March 25, 2028 *NEI maintains a record of participation for six (6) years. CME/CE Credits and Certificate Instructions: After listening to the podcast, to take the optional posttest and receive CME/CE credit, click: https://nei.global/POD25-01 Credit Designations: The following are being offered for this activity: Physician: ACCME AMA PRA Category 1 Credits™ HMP Education designates this enduring material for a maximum of 1.00 AMA PRA Category 1 Credit™. Physicians should claim only the credit commensurate with the extent of their participation in the activity. 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Ensure your profile includes your DOB and NABP ID. Physician Associate/Assistant: AAPA Category 1 CME credits HMP Education has been authorized by the American Academy of PAs (AAPA) to award AAPA Category 1 CME credits for activities planned in accordance with the AAPA CME Criteria. This internet enduring activity is designated for 1.00 AAPA Category 1 credit. Approval is valid until March 25, 2028. PAs should only claim credit commensurate with the extent of their participation. Psychology: APA CE credits Continuing Education (CE) credits for psychologists are provided through the co-sponsorship of the American Psychological Association (APA) Office of Continuing Education in Psychology (CEP). The APA CEP Office maintains responsibility for the content of the programs. This activity awards 1.00 CE Credit. 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Interprofessional Continuing Education: IPCE credit for learning and change This activity was planned by and for the healthcare team, and learners will receive 1.00 Interprofessional Continuing Education (IPCE) credit for learning and change. Peer Review: The content was peer-reviewed by an MD, MPH specializing in forensics, psychosis, schizophrenia, mood disorders, anxiety, and cognitive disorders — to ensure the scientific accuracy and medical relevance of information presented and its independence from commercial bias. NEI and HMP Education take responsibility for the content, quality, and scientific integrity of this CME/CE activity. Disclosures: All individuals in a position to influence or control content are required to disclose any relevant financial relationships. Any relevant financial relationships were mitigated prior to the activity being planned, developed, or presented. Faculty Author / Presenter Andrew J. Cutler, MD Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Norton College of Medicine, State University of New York Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York Chief Medical Officer, Neuroscience Education Institute, Malvern, Pennsylvania Consultant/Advisor: AbbVie, Acadia, Alfasigma, Alkermes, Axsome, Biogen, BioXcel, Boehringer Ingelheim, Brii Biosciences, Cerevel, Corium, Delpor, Evolution Research, Idorsia, Intra-Cellular, Ironshore, Janssen, Jazz, Karuna, Lundbeck, LivaNova, Luye, MapLight Therapeutics, Neumora, Neurocrine, NeuroSigma, Noven, Otsuka, Relmada, Reviva, Sage Therapeutics, Sumitomo (Sunovion), Supernus, Takeda, Teva, Tris Pharma, VistaGen Therapeutics Speakers Bureau: AbbVie, Acadia, Alfasigma, Alkermes, Axsome, BioXcel, Corium, Idorsia, Intra-Cellular, Ironshore, Janssen, Lundbeck, Neurocrine, Noven, Otsuka, Sumitomot (Sunovion), Supernus, Takeda, Teva, Tris Pharma, Vanda Data Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB): COMPASS Pathways, Freedom Biosciences Faculty Author / Presenter Roger S. McIntyre, MD, FRCPC Professor, Departments of Psychiatry and of Pharmacology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada CEO, Braxia Scientific Corp, Toronto, ON, Canada Grant/Research: Canadian Institutes of Health Research, China National Natural Research Foundation, Global Alliance for Chronic Diseases, Milken Institute Consultant/Advisor: Alkermes, Atai Life Sciences, Axsome, Bausch Health, Biogen, Eisai, Intra-Cellular, Janssen, Kris, Lundbeck, Mitsubishi Tanabe, Neumora Therapeutics, Neurocrine, NewBridge Pharmaceuticals, Novo Nordisk, Otsuka, Pfizer, Purdue, Sage, Sanofi, Sunovion, Takeda, Viatris The remaining Planning Committee members, Content Editors, Peer Reviewer, NEI and HMP planners/staff have no financial relationships to disclose. NEI and HMP Education planners and staff include Gabriela Alarcón, PhD, Ali Holladay, Andrea Zimmerman, EdD, CHCP, Brielle Calleo, and Steven S. Simring, MD, MPH. 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Allie Steele comes from Radnor. She joined Summer Stage in 2000. She worked her way up the ranks from  Rising Stars, Children Theatre, Mainstage, and staff, before settling into the role of Stage Manager. She is a graduate of Saint Joseph's University and works as a teaching artist. Currently, Allie is the 50th Anniversary Administrator for our upcoming reunion and gala, which she will discuss some details about. I hope you enjoy our conversation, so come along and have some fun. . .Visit https://www.udsummerstage.org/ for up-to-date information about the 50th Anniversary Gala.We all have stories to tell, and they can be heard here. Welcome to Brave and Strong and True, a podcast that engages Summer Stage alumni of all ages. I'm Bob Falkenstein. Our music is composed and performed by Neil McGettigan https://neilmcgettiganandtheeleventhhour.bandcamp.com/releases. Please click on the link to visit Neil's BandCamp website to listen to songs from his album, including cut number 7, “Harry Dietzler.” Please support Neil's work by buying downloads of your favorites.Please follow Brave and Strong and True on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, please rate the show and leave a comment.  If you want to be a guest on Brave and Strong and True, please contact me at braveandstrongandtrue@gmail.com. I can record five guests simultaneously so reach out to your friends for an online mini-reunion.You must have the latest version of the Google Chrome browser on your desktop or laptop computer. I can now record interviews with guests who have iPads or iPhones. It helps if you have an external microphone and headphones, but Apple earbuds work too; however, BlueTooth ones are not 100% reliable, so see if you can borrow wired ones.Support the showUpper Darby Summer Stage is now part of the non-profit organization known as the Upper Darby Arts and Education Foundation. Harry Dietzler is the Executive Director of the UDAEF. If you are able to support Summer Stage financially, please visit udsummerstage.org to find out more.

Google Chrome is, by far, the most popular web browser in the world.According to several metrics, Chrome accounts for anywhere between 52% and 66% of the current global market share for web browser use. At that higher estimate, that means that, if the 5.5 billion internet users around the world were to open up a web browser right now, 3.6 billion of them would open up Google Chrome.And because the browser is the most common portal to our daily universe of online activity—searching for answers to questions, looking up recipes, applying for jobs, posting on forums, accessing cloud applications, reading the news, comparing prices, recording Lock and Code, buying concert tickets, signing up for newsletters—then the company that controls that browser likely knows a lot about its users.In the case of Google Chrome, that's entirely true.Google Chrome knows the websites you visit, the searches you make (through Google), the links you click, and the device model you use, along with the version of Chrome you run. That may sound benign, but when collected over long periods of time, and when coupled with the mountains of data that other Google products collect about you, this wealth of data can paint a deeply intimate portrait of your life.Today, on the Lock and Code podcast with host David Ruiz, we speak with author, podcast host, and privacy advocate Carey Parker about what Google Chrome knows about you, why that data is sensitive, what “Incognito mode” really does, and what you can do in response.We also explain exactly why Google would want this money, and that's to help it run as an ad company.“That's what [Google is]. Full stop. Google is an ad company who just happens to make a web browser, and a search engine, and an email app, and a whole lot more than that.”Tune in today.You can also listen to "Firewalls Don't Stop Dragons," the podcast hosted by Carey Parker, here: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/You can also find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts, plus whatever preferred podcast platform you use.For all our cybersecurity coverage, visit Malwarebytes Labs at malwarebytes.com/blog.Show notes and credits:Intro Music: “Spellbound” by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/Outro Music: “Good God” by Wowa (unminus.com)Listen up—Malwarebytes doesn't just talk cybersecurity, we provide it.Protect yourself from online attacks that threaten your identity, your files, your system, and your financial well-being with our exclusive offer for Malwarebytes Premium for Lock and Code listeners.

Crypto News: SEC Chair Paul Atkins confirmation Senate hearing reportedly planned for March 27. Microsoft has discovered a new trojan, StilachiRAT, targeting cryptocurrency wallets in the Google Chrome browser. Coinbase study finds over 75% of institutional investors to increase crypto exposure.Show Sponsor -

Microsoft has discovered StilachiRAT, a new remote access trojan specifically targeting cryptocurrency wallets and credentials. The malware focuses on stealing data from 20 cryptocurrency wallet extensions on Google Chrome, including Metamask and Trust Wallet. However, Avalanche native wallet "Core" seems safe from the exploit.Guest: Tess Nekvasil, Product Marketing Manager at Ava LabsCore Wallet ➜ https://bit.ly/CoreWalletAVAX~This episode is sponsored by Tangem~Tangem ➜ https://bit.ly/TangemPBNUse Code: "PBN" for Additional Discounts!00:00 intro00:13 Sponsor: Tangem00:43 Microsoft Warns of New Threat01:19 Core Wallet is Safe02:10 Core App Criticisms04:31 Onboarding Problems06:12 Upgrade Roadmap07:24 Metamask Joins TikTok Bid09:40 Why is Core Not on MeWe? 11:24 C-Chain Upgrade12:44 Cross-Chain UI Upgrades14:09 USDC Upgrade on Avalanche16:21 Robinhood Connect17:20 Bank Wallets Incoming20:54 outro#Crypto #AVAX #bitcoin~Crypto Wallets At Risk!

On today's show we are talking about the evolution of digital marketing. The problem is the digital marketing has changed dramatically in the past 12 months and chances are if you are a business owner and you are still in business you are probably still marketing the same way that you did 12 months ago perhaps 24 months ago maybe even five years ago. Google has changed the way that it presents search results. It used to be the case that organic search was the name of the game when it comes to search. Appearing at the top of the list on the first page of Google search results would virtually guarantee you a dominant market position. That was later push lower down in the priority sequence behind paid advertising. Today the top of the first page of search results consist of what is called a snippet. A snippet is a summary that is often an AI generated from the top search results. If you were one of the businesses that ranked pretty well in the past, chances are you have now been pushed down onto page 2 or page 3, perhaps even further down in the search results. You're probably spending more money on Google Ads and getting inferior results. As if that was not bad enough many users are increasingly relying on AI chat bots for their search results and no longer even using Google for search altogether. For example, there is a new copilot plug-in to the Google Chrome browser that will effectively make Microsoft copilot your default search engine. Google's Gemini suffers from the same problems by the way.--------------**Real Estate Espresso Podcast:** Spotify: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/3GvtwRmTq4r3es8cbw8jW0?si=c75ea506a6694ef1)   iTunes: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-real-estate-espresso-podcast/id1340482613)   Website: [www.victorjm.com](http://www.victorjm.com)   LinkedIn: [Victor Menasce](http://www.linkedin.com/in/vmenasce)   YouTube: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](http://www.youtube.com/@victorjmenasce6734)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/realestateespresso](http://www.facebook.com/realestateespresso)   Email: [podcast@victorjm.com](mailto:podcast@victorjm.com)  **Y Street Capital:** Website: [www.ystreetcapital.com](http://www.ystreetcapital.com)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital](https://www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital)   Instagram: [@ystreetcapital](http://www.instagram.com/ystreetcapital)  

Unsurprisingly, artificial intelligence once again topped the results of Donald Taylor's Global Sentiment Survey. Almost every other option on the survey lost vote-share this year, with the exception of the ‘value trio'. So, what do these findings tell us about the state of L&D, and how the profession is evolving?  In this week's episode of The Mindtools L&D Podcast, Don joined Ross D and Ross G for our annual breakdown of the survey's results. We discuss:  what the Global Sentiment Survey is (and what it isn't);  AI's unprecedented dominance of the survey, and the conclusions we can draw from this;  the return of the ‘value trio';  the extent to which L&D's perceived challenges align with perceived ‘hot' topics.  To read the full Global Sentiment Survey 2025 report, head to Don's website.  In ‘What I Learned This Week', Ross G recommended the 'Tab limit' extension for Google Chrome.  Ross D referenced Jared Cooney Horvath's video ‘CheatGPT | A textbook case of bad research'.  And Don mentioned the paper ‘A systematic literature review of artificial intelligence (AI) in coaching: insights for future research and product development', from The Journal of Work-Applied Management.  For more from us, visit mindtools.com. There, you'll also find details of our award-winning performance support toolkit, our off-the-shelf e-learning, and our custom work.    Connect with our speakers     If you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, connect with us on LinkedIn:  Ross Dickie  Ross Garner  Donald Taylor 

Latest Google Chrome Update Encourages UBlock Origin Removal The latest update to Google Chrome not only disabled the UBlock Origin ad blocker, but also guides users to uninstall the extension instead of re-enabling it. https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2025/03/stable-channel-update-for-desktop.html https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/1j2ec76/ublock_origin_is_gone/ Critical Kibana Update Elastic published a critical Kibana update patching a prototype polution vulnerability that would allow arbitrary code execution for users with the "Viewer" role. https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-8-17-3-security-update-esa-2025-06/375441 Certified PrePw0n3d Android TV Sticks Wired is reporting of over a million Android TV sticks that were found to be pre-infected with adware https://www.wired.com/story/android-tv-streaming-boxes-china-backdoor/ SANS.edu Research Paper Advanced Persistent Threats (APTs) are among the most challenging to detect in enterprise environments, often mimicking authorized privileged access prior to their actions on objectives. https://www.sans.edu/cyber-research/identifying-advanced-persistent-threat-activity-through-threat-informed-detection-engineering-enhancing-alert-visibility-enterprises/

March 5, 2025: Sebastian Estades, Healthcare Lead of Google Chrome, explores how Google is reimagining healthcare browser security. Sebastian reveals how healthcare systems can move beyond traditional operating systems toward web-based environments that don't compromise on security or integration capabilities. What possibilities emerge when healthcare IT leaders consider repurposing existing hardware amid Windows 10's approaching end-of-life?Key Points:06:20 Future Trends in Healthcare Technology07:31 Mobile Device Integration08:01 Windows 10 End of Life: A New OpportunitySubscribe: This Week HealthTwitter: This Week HealthLinkedIn: This Week HealthDonate: Alex's Lemonade Stand: Foundation for Childhood Cancer

Today's episode is with Paul Klein, founder of Browserbase. We talked about building browser infrastructure for AI agents, the future of agent authentication, and their open source framework Stagehand.* [00:00:00] Introductions* [00:04:46] AI-specific challenges in browser infrastructure* [00:07:05] Multimodality in AI-Powered Browsing* [00:12:26] Running headless browsers at scale* [00:18:46] Geolocation when proxying* [00:21:25] CAPTCHAs and Agent Auth* [00:28:21] Building “User take over” functionality* [00:33:43] Stagehand: AI web browsing framework* [00:38:58] OpenAI's Operator and computer use agents* [00:44:44] Surprising use cases of Browserbase* [00:47:18] Future of browser automation and market competition* [00:53:11] Being a solo founderTranscriptAlessio [00:00:04]: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co-host Swyx, founder of Smol.ai.swyx [00:00:12]: Hey, and today we are very blessed to have our friends, Paul Klein, for the fourth, the fourth, CEO of Browserbase. Welcome.Paul [00:00:21]: Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. I've been lucky to know both of you for like a couple of years now, I think. So it's just like we're hanging out, you know, with three ginormous microphones in front of our face. It's totally normal hangout.swyx [00:00:34]: Yeah. We've actually mentioned you on the podcast, I think, more often than any other Solaris tenant. Just because like you're one of the, you know, best performing, I think, LLM tool companies that have started up in the last couple of years.Paul [00:00:50]: Yeah, I mean, it's been a whirlwind of a year, like Browserbase is actually pretty close to our first birthday. So we are one years old. And going from, you know, starting a company as a solo founder to... To, you know, having a team of 20 people, you know, a series A, but also being able to support hundreds of AI companies that are building AI applications that go out and automate the web. It's just been like, really cool. It's been happening a little too fast. I think like collectively as an AI industry, let's just take a week off together. I took my first vacation actually two weeks ago, and Operator came out on the first day, and then a week later, DeepSeat came out. And I'm like on vacation trying to chill. I'm like, we got to build with this stuff, right? So it's been a breakneck year. But I'm super happy to be here and like talk more about all the stuff we're seeing. And I'd love to hear kind of what you guys are excited about too, and share with it, you know?swyx [00:01:39]: Where to start? So people, you've done a bunch of podcasts. I think I strongly recommend Jack Bridger's Scaling DevTools, as well as Turner Novak's The Peel. And, you know, I'm sure there's others. So you covered your Twilio story in the past, talked about StreamClub, you got acquired to Mux, and then you left to start Browserbase. So maybe we just start with what is Browserbase? Yeah.Paul [00:02:02]: Browserbase is the web browser for your AI. We're building headless browser infrastructure, which are browsers that run in a server environment that's accessible to developers via APIs and SDKs. It's really hard to run a web browser in the cloud. You guys are probably running Chrome on your computers, and that's using a lot of resources, right? So if you want to run a web browser or thousands of web browsers, you can't just spin up a bunch of lambdas. You actually need to use a secure containerized environment. You have to scale it up and down. It's a stateful system. And that infrastructure is, like, super painful. And I know that firsthand, because at my last company, StreamClub, I was CTO, and I was building our own internal headless browser infrastructure. That's actually why we sold the company, is because Mux really wanted to buy our headless browser infrastructure that we'd built. And it's just a super hard problem. And I actually told my co-founders, I would never start another company unless it was a browser infrastructure company. And it turns out that's really necessary in the age of AI, when AI can actually go out and interact with websites, click on buttons, fill in forms. You need AI to do all of that work in an actual browser running somewhere on a server. And BrowserBase powers that.swyx [00:03:08]: While you're talking about it, it occurred to me, not that you're going to be acquired or anything, but it occurred to me that it would be really funny if you became the Nikita Beer of headless browser companies. You just have one trick, and you make browser companies that get acquired.Paul [00:03:23]: I truly do only have one trick. I'm screwed if it's not for headless browsers. I'm not a Go programmer. You know, I'm in AI grant. You know, browsers is an AI grant. But we were the only company in that AI grant batch that used zero dollars on AI spend. You know, we're purely an infrastructure company. So as much as people want to ask me about reinforcement learning, I might not be the best guy to talk about that. But if you want to ask about headless browser infrastructure at scale, I can talk your ear off. So that's really my area of expertise. And it's a pretty niche thing. Like, nobody has done what we're doing at scale before. So we're happy to be the experts.swyx [00:03:59]: You do have an AI thing, stagehand. We can talk about the sort of core of browser-based first, and then maybe stagehand. Yeah, stagehand is kind of the web browsing framework. Yeah.What is Browserbase? Headless Browser Infrastructure ExplainedAlessio [00:04:10]: Yeah. Yeah. And maybe how you got to browser-based and what problems you saw. So one of the first things I worked on as a software engineer was integration testing. Sauce Labs was kind of like the main thing at the time. And then we had Selenium, we had Playbrite, we had all these different browser things. But it's always been super hard to do. So obviously you've worked on this before. When you started browser-based, what were the challenges? What were the AI-specific challenges that you saw versus, there's kind of like all the usual running browser at scale in the cloud, which has been a problem for years. What are like the AI unique things that you saw that like traditional purchase just didn't cover? Yeah.AI-specific challenges in browser infrastructurePaul [00:04:46]: First and foremost, I think back to like the first thing I did as a developer, like as a kid when I was writing code, I wanted to write code that did stuff for me. You know, I wanted to write code to automate my life. And I do that probably by using curl or beautiful soup to fetch data from a web browser. And I think I still do that now that I'm in the cloud. And the other thing that I think is a huge challenge for me is that you can't just create a web site and parse that data. And we all know that now like, you know, taking HTML and plugging that into an LLM, you can extract insights, you can summarize. So it was very clear that now like dynamic web scraping became very possible with the rise of large language models or a lot easier. And that was like a clear reason why there's been more usage of headless browsers, which are necessary because a lot of modern websites don't expose all of their page content via a simple HTTP request. You know, they actually do require you to run this type of code for a specific time. JavaScript on the page to hydrate this. Airbnb is a great example. You go to airbnb.com. A lot of that content on the page isn't there until after they run the initial hydration. So you can't just scrape it with a curl. You need to have some JavaScript run. And a browser is that JavaScript engine that's going to actually run all those requests on the page. So web data retrieval was definitely one driver of starting BrowserBase and the rise of being able to summarize that within LLM. Also, I was familiar with if I wanted to automate a website, I could write one script and that would work for one website. It was very static and deterministic. But the web is non-deterministic. The web is always changing. And until we had LLMs, there was no way to write scripts that you could write once that would run on any website. That would change with the structure of the website. Click the login button. It could mean something different on many different websites. And LLMs allow us to generate code on the fly to actually control that. So I think that rise of writing the generic automation scripts that can work on many different websites, to me, made it clear that browsers are going to be a lot more useful because now you can automate a lot more things without writing. If you wanted to write a script to book a demo call on 100 websites, previously, you had to write 100 scripts. Now you write one script that uses LLMs to generate that script. That's why we built our web browsing framework, StageHand, which does a lot of that work for you. But those two things, web data collection and then enhanced automation of many different websites, it just felt like big drivers for more browser infrastructure that would be required to power these kinds of features.Alessio [00:07:05]: And was multimodality also a big thing?Paul [00:07:08]: Now you can use the LLMs to look, even though the text in the dome might not be as friendly. Maybe my hot take is I was always kind of like, I didn't think vision would be as big of a driver. For UI automation, I felt like, you know, HTML is structured text and large language models are good with structured text. But it's clear that these computer use models are often vision driven, and they've been really pushing things forward. So definitely being multimodal, like rendering the page is required to take a screenshot to give that to a computer use model to take actions on a website. And it's just another win for browser. But I'll be honest, that wasn't what I was thinking early on. I didn't even think that we'd get here so fast with multimodality. I think we're going to have to get back to multimodal and vision models.swyx [00:07:50]: This is one of those things where I forgot to mention in my intro that I'm an investor in Browserbase. And I remember that when you pitched to me, like a lot of the stuff that we have today, we like wasn't on the original conversation. But I did have my original thesis was something that we've talked about on the podcast before, which is take the GPT store, the custom GPT store, all the every single checkbox and plugin is effectively a startup. And this was the browser one. I think the main hesitation, I think I actually took a while to get back to you. The main hesitation was that there were others. Like you're not the first hit list browser startup. It's not even your first hit list browser startup. There's always a question of like, will you be the category winner in a place where there's a bunch of incumbents, to be honest, that are bigger than you? They're just not targeted at the AI space. They don't have the backing of Nat Friedman. And there's a bunch of like, you're here in Silicon Valley. They're not. I don't know.Paul [00:08:47]: I don't know if that's, that was it, but like, there was a, yeah, I mean, like, I think I tried all the other ones and I was like, really disappointed. Like my background is from working at great developer tools, companies, and nothing had like the Vercel like experience. Um, like our biggest competitor actually is partly owned by private equity and they just jacked up their prices quite a bit. And the dashboard hasn't changed in five years. And I actually used them at my last company and tried them and I was like, oh man, like there really just needs to be something that's like the experience of these great infrastructure companies, like Stripe, like clerk, like Vercel that I use in love, but oriented towards this kind of like more specific category, which is browser infrastructure, which is really technically complex. Like a lot of stuff can go wrong on the internet when you're running a browser. The internet is very vast. There's a lot of different configurations. Like there's still websites that only work with internet explorer out there. How do you handle that when you're running your own browser infrastructure? These are the problems that we have to think about and solve at BrowserBase. And it's, it's certainly a labor of love, but I built this for me, first and foremost, I know it's super cheesy and everyone says that for like their startups, but it really, truly was for me. If you look at like the talks I've done even before BrowserBase, and I'm just like really excited to try and build a category defining infrastructure company. And it's, it's rare to have a new category of infrastructure exists. We're here in the Chroma offices and like, you know, vector databases is a new category of infrastructure. Is it, is it, I mean, we can, we're in their office, so, you know, we can, we can debate that one later. That is one.Multimodality in AI-Powered Browsingswyx [00:10:16]: That's one of the industry debates.Paul [00:10:17]: I guess we go back to the LLMOS talk that Karpathy gave way long ago. And like the browser box was very clearly there and it seemed like the people who were building in this space also agreed that browsers are a core primitive of infrastructure for the LLMOS that's going to exist in the future. And nobody was building something there that I wanted to use. So I had to go build it myself.swyx [00:10:38]: Yeah. I mean, exactly that talk that, that honestly, that diagram, every box is a startup and there's the code box and then there's the. The browser box. I think at some point they will start clashing there. There's always the question of the, are you a point solution or are you the sort of all in one? And I think the point solutions tend to win quickly, but then the only ones have a very tight cohesive experience. Yeah. Let's talk about just the hard problems of browser base you have on your website, which is beautiful. Thank you. Was there an agency that you used for that? Yeah. Herb.paris.Paul [00:11:11]: They're amazing. Herb.paris. Yeah. It's H-E-R-V-E. I highly recommend for developers. Developer tools, founders to work with consumer agencies because they end up building beautiful things and the Parisians know how to build beautiful interfaces. So I got to give prep.swyx [00:11:24]: And chat apps, apparently are, they are very fast. Oh yeah. The Mistral chat. Yeah. Mistral. Yeah.Paul [00:11:31]: Late chat.swyx [00:11:31]: Late chat. And then your videos as well, it was professionally shot, right? The series A video. Yeah.Alessio [00:11:36]: Nico did the videos. He's amazing. Not the initial video that you shot at the new one. First one was Austin.Paul [00:11:41]: Another, another video pretty surprised. But yeah, I mean, like, I think when you think about how you talk about your company. You have to think about the way you present yourself. It's, you know, as a developer, you think you evaluate a company based on like the API reliability and the P 95, but a lot of developers say, is the website good? Is the message clear? Do I like trust this founder? I'm building my whole feature on. So I've tried to nail that as well as like the reliability of the infrastructure. You're right. It's very hard. And there's a lot of kind of foot guns that you run into when running headless browsers at scale. Right.Competing with Existing Headless Browser Solutionsswyx [00:12:10]: So let's pick one. You have eight features here. Seamless integration. Scalability. Fast or speed. Secure. Observable. Stealth. That's interesting. Extensible and developer first. What comes to your mind as like the top two, three hardest ones? Yeah.Running headless browsers at scalePaul [00:12:26]: I think just running headless browsers at scale is like the hardest one. And maybe can I nerd out for a second? Is that okay? I heard this is a technical audience, so I'll talk to the other nerds. Whoa. They were listening. Yeah. They're upset. They're ready. The AGI is angry. Okay. So. So how do you run a browser in the cloud? Let's start with that, right? So let's say you're using a popular browser automation framework like Puppeteer, Playwright, and Selenium. Maybe you've written a code, some code locally on your computer that opens up Google. It finds the search bar and then types in, you know, search for Latent Space and hits the search button. That script works great locally. You can see the little browser open up. You want to take that to production. You want to run the script in a cloud environment. So when your laptop is closed, your browser is doing something. The browser is doing something. Well, I, we use Amazon. You can see the little browser open up. You know, the first thing I'd reach for is probably like some sort of serverless infrastructure. I would probably try and deploy on a Lambda. But Chrome itself is too big to run on a Lambda. It's over 250 megabytes. So you can't easily start it on a Lambda. So you maybe have to use something like Lambda layers to squeeze it in there. Maybe use a different Chromium build that's lighter. And you get it on the Lambda. Great. It works. But it runs super slowly. It's because Lambdas are very like resource limited. They only run like with one vCPU. You can run one process at a time. Remember, Chromium is super beefy. It's barely running on my MacBook Air. I'm still downloading it from a pre-run. Yeah, from the test earlier, right? I'm joking. But it's big, you know? So like Lambda, it just won't work really well. Maybe it'll work, but you need something faster. Your users want something faster. Okay. Well, let's put it on a beefier instance. Let's get an EC2 server running. Let's throw Chromium on there. Great. Okay. I can, that works well with one user. But what if I want to run like 10 Chromium instances, one for each of my users? Okay. Well, I might need two EC2 instances. Maybe 10. All of a sudden, you have multiple EC2 instances. This sounds like a problem for Kubernetes and Docker, right? Now, all of a sudden, you're using ECS or EKS, the Kubernetes or container solutions by Amazon. You're spending up and down containers, and you're spending a whole engineer's time on kind of maintaining this stateful distributed system. Those are some of the worst systems to run because when it's a stateful distributed system, it means that you are bound by the connections to that thing. You have to keep the browser open while someone is working with it, right? That's just a painful architecture to run. And there's all this other little gotchas with Chromium, like Chromium, which is the open source version of Chrome, by the way. You have to install all these fonts. You want emojis working in your browsers because your vision model is looking for the emoji. You need to make sure you have the emoji fonts. You need to make sure you have all the right extensions configured, like, oh, do you want ad blocking? How do you configure that? How do you actually record all these browser sessions? Like it's a headless browser. You can't look at it. So you need to have some sort of observability. Maybe you're recording videos and storing those somewhere. It all kind of adds up to be this just giant monster piece of your project when all you wanted to do was run a lot of browsers in production for this little script to go to google.com and search. And when I see a complex distributed system, I see an opportunity to build a great infrastructure company. And we really abstract that away with Browserbase where our customers can use these existing frameworks, Playwright, Publisher, Selenium, or our own stagehand and connect to our browsers in a serverless-like way. And control them, and then just disconnect when they're done. And they don't have to think about the complex distributed system behind all of that. They just get a browser running anywhere, anytime. Really easy to connect to.swyx [00:15:55]: I'm sure you have questions. My standard question with anything, so essentially you're a serverless browser company, and there's been other serverless things that I'm familiar with in the past, serverless GPUs, serverless website hosting. That's where I come from with Netlify. One question is just like, you promised to spin up thousands of servers. You promised to spin up thousands of browsers in milliseconds. I feel like there's no real solution that does that yet. And I'm just kind of curious how. The only solution I know, which is to kind of keep a kind of warm pool of servers around, which is expensive, but maybe not so expensive because it's just CPUs. So I'm just like, you know. Yeah.Browsers as a Core Primitive in AI InfrastructurePaul [00:16:36]: You nailed it, right? I mean, how do you offer a serverless-like experience with something that is clearly not serverless, right? And the answer is, you need to be able to run... We run many browsers on single nodes. We use Kubernetes at browser base. So we have many pods that are being scheduled. We have to predictably schedule them up or down. Yes, thousands of browsers in milliseconds is the best case scenario. If you hit us with 10,000 requests, you may hit a slower cold start, right? So we've done a lot of work on predictive scaling and being able to kind of route stuff to different regions where we have multiple regions of browser base where we have different pools available. You can also pick the region you want to go to based on like lower latency, round trip, time latency. It's very important with these types of things. There's a lot of requests going over the wire. So for us, like having a VM like Firecracker powering everything under the hood allows us to be super nimble and spin things up or down really quickly with strong multi-tenancy. But in the end, this is like the complex infrastructural challenges that we have to kind of deal with at browser base. And we have a lot more stuff on our roadmap to allow customers to have more levers to pull to exchange, do you want really fast browser startup times or do you want really low costs? And if you're willing to be more flexible on that, we may be able to kind of like work better for your use cases.swyx [00:17:44]: Since you used Firecracker, shouldn't Fargate do that for you or did you have to go lower level than that? We had to go lower level than that.Paul [00:17:51]: I find this a lot with Fargate customers, which is alarming for Fargate. We used to be a giant Fargate customer. Actually, the first version of browser base was ECS and Fargate. And unfortunately, it's a great product. I think we were actually the largest Fargate customer in our region for a little while. No, what? Yeah, seriously. And unfortunately, it's a great product, but I think if you're an infrastructure company, you actually have to have a deeper level of control over these primitives. I think it's the same thing is true with databases. We've used other database providers and I think-swyx [00:18:21]: Yeah, serverless Postgres.Paul [00:18:23]: Shocker. When you're an infrastructure company, you're on the hook if any provider has an outage. And I can't tell my customers like, hey, we went down because so-and-so went down. That's not acceptable. So for us, we've really moved to bringing things internally. It's kind of opposite of what we preach. We tell our customers, don't build this in-house, but then we're like, we build a lot of stuff in-house. But I think it just really depends on what is in the critical path. We try and have deep ownership of that.Alessio [00:18:46]: On the distributed location side, how does that work for the web where you might get sort of different content in different locations, but the customer is expecting, you know, if you're in the US, I'm expecting the US version. But if you're spinning up my browser in France, I might get the French version. Yeah.Paul [00:19:02]: Yeah. That's a good question. Well, generally, like on the localization, there is a thing called locale in the browser. You can set like what your locale is. If you're like in the ENUS browser or not, but some things do IP, IP based routing. And in that case, you may want to have a proxy. Like let's say you're running something in the, in Europe, but you want to make sure you're showing up from the US. You may want to use one of our proxy features so you can turn on proxies to say like, make sure these connections always come from the United States, which is necessary too, because when you're browsing the web, you're coming from like a, you know, data center IP, and that can make things a lot harder to browse web. So we do have kind of like this proxy super network. Yeah. We have a proxy for you based on where you're going, so you can reliably automate the web. But if you get scheduled in Europe, that doesn't happen as much. We try and schedule you as close to, you know, your origin that you're trying to go to. But generally you have control over the regions you can put your browsers in. So you can specify West one or East one or Europe. We only have one region of Europe right now, actually. Yeah.Alessio [00:19:55]: What's harder, the browser or the proxy? I feel like to me, it feels like actually proxying reliably at scale. It's much harder than spending up browsers at scale. I'm curious. It's all hard.Paul [00:20:06]: It's layers of hard, right? Yeah. I think it's different levels of hard. I think the thing with the proxy infrastructure is that we work with many different web proxy providers and some are better than others. Some have good days, some have bad days. And our customers who've built browser infrastructure on their own, they have to go and deal with sketchy actors. Like first they figure out their own browser infrastructure and then they got to go buy a proxy. And it's like you can pay in Bitcoin and it just kind of feels a little sus, right? It's like you're buying drugs when you're trying to get a proxy online. We have like deep relationships with these counterparties. We're able to audit them and say, is this proxy being sourced ethically? Like it's not running on someone's TV somewhere. Is it free range? Yeah. Free range organic proxies, right? Right. We do a level of diligence. We're SOC 2. So we have to understand what is going on here. But then we're able to make sure that like we route around proxy providers not working. There's proxy providers who will just, the proxy will stop working all of a sudden. And then if you don't have redundant proxying on your own browsers, that's hard down for you or you may get some serious impacts there. With us, like we intelligently know, hey, this proxy is not working. Let's go to this one. And you can kind of build a network of multiple providers to really guarantee the best uptime for our customers. Yeah. So you don't own any proxies? We don't own any proxies. You're right. The team has been saying who wants to like take home a little proxy server, but not yet. We're not there yet. You know?swyx [00:21:25]: It's a very mature market. I don't think you should build that yourself. Like you should just be a super customer of them. Yeah. Scraping, I think, is the main use case for that. I guess. Well, that leads us into CAPTCHAs and also off, but let's talk about CAPTCHAs. You had a little spiel that you wanted to talk about CAPTCHA stuff.Challenges of Scaling Browser InfrastructurePaul [00:21:43]: Oh, yeah. I was just, I think a lot of people ask, if you're thinking about proxies, you're thinking about CAPTCHAs too. I think it's the same thing. You can go buy CAPTCHA solvers online, but it's the same buying experience. It's some sketchy website, you have to integrate it. It's not fun to buy these things and you can't really trust that the docs are bad. What Browserbase does is we integrate a bunch of different CAPTCHAs. We do some stuff in-house, but generally we just integrate with a bunch of known vendors and continually monitor and maintain these things and say, is this working or not? Can we route around it or not? These are CAPTCHA solvers. CAPTCHA solvers, yeah. Not CAPTCHA providers, CAPTCHA solvers. Yeah, sorry. CAPTCHA solvers. We really try and make sure all of that works for you. I think as a dev, if I'm buying infrastructure, I want it all to work all the time and it's important for us to provide that experience by making sure everything does work and monitoring it on our own. Yeah. Right now, the world of CAPTCHAs is tricky. I think AI agents in particular are very much ahead of the internet infrastructure. CAPTCHAs are designed to block all types of bots, but there are now good bots and bad bots. I think in the future, CAPTCHAs will be able to identify who a good bot is, hopefully via some sort of KYC. For us, we've been very lucky. We have very little to no known abuse of Browserbase because we really look into who we work with. And for certain types of CAPTCHA solving, we only allow them on certain types of plans because we want to make sure that we can know what people are doing, what their use cases are. And that's really allowed us to try and be an arbiter of good bots, which is our long term goal. I want to build great relationships with people like Cloudflare so we can agree, hey, here are these acceptable bots. We'll identify them for you and make sure we flag when they come to your website. This is a good bot, you know?Alessio [00:23:23]: I see. And Cloudflare said they want to do more of this. So they're going to set by default, if they think you're an AI bot, they're going to reject. I'm curious if you think this is something that is going to be at the browser level or I mean, the DNS level with Cloudflare seems more where it should belong. But I'm curious how you think about it.Paul [00:23:40]: I think the web's going to change. You know, I think that the Internet as we have it right now is going to change. And we all need to just accept that the cat is out of the bag. And instead of kind of like wishing the Internet was like it was in the 2000s, we can have free content line that wouldn't be scraped. It's just it's not going to happen. And instead, we should think about like, one, how can we change? How can we change the models of, you know, information being published online so people can adequately commercialize it? But two, how do we rebuild applications that expect that AI agents are going to log in on their behalf? Those are the things that are going to allow us to kind of like identify good and bad bots. And I think the team at Clerk has been doing a really good job with this on the authentication side. I actually think that auth is the biggest thing that will prevent agents from accessing stuff, not captchas. And I think there will be agent auth in the future. I don't know if it's going to happen from an individual company, but actually authentication providers that have a, you know, hidden login as agent feature, which will then you put in your email, you'll get a push notification, say like, hey, your browser-based agent wants to log into your Airbnb. You can approve that and then the agent can proceed. That really circumvents the need for captchas or logging in as you and sharing your password. I think agent auth is going to be one way we identify good bots going forward. And I think a lot of this captcha solving stuff is really short-term problems as the internet kind of reorients itself around how it's going to work with agents browsing the web, just like people do. Yeah.Managing Distributed Browser Locations and Proxiesswyx [00:24:59]: Stitch recently was on Hacker News for talking about agent experience, AX, which is a thing that Netlify is also trying to clone and coin and talk about. And we've talked about this on our previous episodes before in a sense that I actually think that's like maybe the only part of the tech stack that needs to be kind of reinvented for agents. Everything else can stay the same, CLIs, APIs, whatever. But auth, yeah, we need agent auth. And it's mostly like short-lived, like it should not, it should be a distinct, identity from the human, but paired. I almost think like in the same way that every social network should have your main profile and then your alt accounts or your Finsta, it's almost like, you know, every, every human token should be paired with the agent token and the agent token can go and do stuff on behalf of the human token, but not be presumed to be the human. Yeah.Paul [00:25:48]: It's like, it's, it's actually very similar to OAuth is what I'm thinking. And, you know, Thread from Stitch is an investor, Colin from Clerk, Octaventures, all investors in browser-based because like, I hope they solve this because they'll make browser-based submission more possible. So we don't have to overcome all these hurdles, but I think it will be an OAuth-like flow where an agent will ask to log in as you, you'll approve the scopes. Like it can book an apartment on Airbnb, but it can't like message anybody. And then, you know, the agent will have some sort of like role-based access control within an application. Yeah. I'm excited for that.swyx [00:26:16]: The tricky part is just, there's one, one layer of delegation here, which is like, you're authoring my user's user or something like that. I don't know if that's tricky or not. Does that make sense? Yeah.Paul [00:26:25]: You know, actually at Twilio, I worked on the login identity and access. Management teams, right? So like I built Twilio's login page.swyx [00:26:31]: You were an intern on that team and then you became the lead in two years? Yeah.Paul [00:26:34]: Yeah. I started as an intern in 2016 and then I was the tech lead of that team. How? That's not normal. I didn't have a life. He's not normal. Look at this guy. I didn't have a girlfriend. I just loved my job. I don't know. I applied to 500 internships for my first job and I got rejected from every single one of them except for Twilio and then eventually Amazon. And they took a shot on me and like, I was getting paid money to write code, which was my dream. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very lucky that like this coding thing worked out because I was going to be doing it regardless. And yeah, I was able to kind of spend a lot of time on a team that was growing at a company that was growing. So it informed a lot of this stuff here. I think these are problems that have been solved with like the SAML protocol with SSO. I think it's a really interesting stuff with like WebAuthn, like these different types of authentication, like schemes that you can use to authenticate people. The tooling is all there. It just needs to be tweaked a little bit to work for agents. And I think the fact that there are companies that are already. Providing authentication as a service really sets it up. Well, the thing that's hard is like reinventing the internet for agents. We don't want to rebuild the internet. That's an impossible task. And I think people often say like, well, we'll have this second layer of APIs built for agents. I'm like, we will for the top use cases, but instead of we can just tweak the internet as is, which is on the authentication side, I think we're going to be the dumb ones going forward. Unfortunately, I think AI is going to be able to do a lot of the tasks that we do online, which means that it will be able to go to websites, click buttons on our behalf and log in on our behalf too. So with this kind of like web agent future happening, I think with some small structural changes, like you said, it feels like it could all slot in really nicely with the existing internet.Handling CAPTCHAs and Agent Authenticationswyx [00:28:08]: There's one more thing, which is the, your live view iframe, which lets you take, take control. Yeah. Obviously very key for operator now, but like, was, is there anything interesting technically there or that the people like, well, people always want this.Paul [00:28:21]: It was really hard to build, you know, like, so, okay. Headless browsers, you don't see them, right. They're running. They're running in a cloud somewhere. You can't like look at them. And I just want to really make, it's a weird name. I wish we came up with a better name for this thing, but you can't see them. Right. But customers don't trust AI agents, right. At least the first pass. So what we do with our live view is that, you know, when you use browser base, you can actually embed a live view of the browser running in the cloud for your customer to see it working. And that's what the first reason is the build trust, like, okay, so I have this script. That's going to go automate a website. I can embed it into my web application via an iframe and my customer can watch. I think. And then we added two way communication. So now not only can you watch the browser kind of being operated by AI, if you want to pause and actually click around type within this iframe that's controlling a browser, that's also possible. And this is all thanks to some of the lower level protocol, which is called the Chrome DevTools protocol. It has a API called start screencast, and you can also send mouse clicks and button clicks to a remote browser. And this is all embeddable within iframes. You have a browser within a browser, yo. And then you simulate the screen, the click on the other side. Exactly. And this is really nice often for, like, let's say, a capture that can't be solved. You saw this with Operator, you know, Operator actually uses a different approach. They use VNC. So, you know, you're able to see, like, you're seeing the whole window here. What we're doing is something a little lower level with the Chrome DevTools protocol. It's just PNGs being streamed over the wire. But the same thing is true, right? Like, hey, I'm running a window. Pause. Can you do something in this window? Human. Okay, great. Resume. Like sometimes 2FA tokens. Like if you get that text message, you might need a person to type that in. Web agents need human-in-the-loop type workflows still. You still need a person to interact with the browser. And building a UI to proxy that is kind of hard. You may as well just show them the whole browser and say, hey, can you finish this up for me? And then let the AI proceed on afterwards. Is there a future where I stream my current desktop to browser base? I don't think so. I think we're very much cloud infrastructure. Yeah. You know, but I think a lot of the stuff we're doing, we do want to, like, build tools. Like, you know, we'll talk about the stage and, you know, web agent framework in a second. But, like, there's a case where a lot of people are going desktop first for, you know, consumer use. And I think cloud is doing a lot of this, where I expect to see, you know, MCPs really oriented around the cloud desktop app for a reason, right? Like, I think a lot of these tools are going to run on your computer because it makes... I think it's breaking out. People are putting it on a server. Oh, really? Okay. Well, sweet. We'll see. We'll see that. I was surprised, though, wasn't I? I think that the browser company, too, with Dia Browser, it runs on your machine. You know, it's going to be...swyx [00:30:50]: What is it?Paul [00:30:51]: So, Dia Browser, as far as I understand... I used to use Arc. Yeah. I haven't used Arc. But I'm a big fan of the browser company. I think they're doing a lot of cool stuff in consumer. As far as I understand, it's a browser where you have a sidebar where you can, like, chat with it and it can control the local browser on your machine. So, if you imagine, like, what a consumer web agent is, which it lives alongside your browser, I think Google Chrome has Project Marina, I think. I almost call it Project Marinara for some reason. I don't know why. It's...swyx [00:31:17]: No, I think it's someone really likes the Waterworld. Oh, I see. The classic Kevin Costner. Yeah.Paul [00:31:22]: Okay. Project Marinara is a similar thing to the Dia Browser, in my mind, as far as I understand it. You have a browser that has an AI interface that will take over your mouse and keyboard and control the browser for you. Great for consumer use cases. But if you're building applications that rely on a browser and it's more part of a greater, like, AI app experience, you probably need something that's more like infrastructure, not a consumer app.swyx [00:31:44]: Just because I have explored a little bit in this area, do people want branching? So, I have the state. Of whatever my browser's in. And then I want, like, 100 clones of this state. Do people do that? Or...Paul [00:31:56]: People don't do it currently. Yeah. But it's definitely something we're thinking about. I think the idea of forking a browser is really cool. Technically, kind of hard. We're starting to see this in code execution, where people are, like, forking some, like, code execution, like, processes or forking some tool calls or branching tool calls. Haven't seen it at the browser level yet. But it makes sense. Like, if an AI agent is, like, using a website and it's not sure what path it wants to take to crawl this website. To find the information it's looking for. It would make sense for it to explore both paths in parallel. And that'd be a very, like... A road not taken. Yeah. And hopefully find the right answer. And then say, okay, this was actually the right one. And memorize that. And go there in the future. On the roadmap. For sure. Don't make my roadmap, please. You know?Alessio [00:32:37]: How do you actually do that? Yeah. How do you fork? I feel like the browser is so stateful for so many things.swyx [00:32:42]: Serialize the state. Restore the state. I don't know.Paul [00:32:44]: So, it's one of the reasons why we haven't done it yet. It's hard. You know? Like, to truly fork, it's actually quite difficult. The naive way is to open the same page in a new tab and then, like, hope that it's at the same thing. But if you have a form halfway filled, you may have to, like, take the whole, you know, container. Pause it. All the memory. Duplicate it. Restart it from there. It could be very slow. So, we haven't found a thing. Like, the easy thing to fork is just, like, copy the page object. You know? But I think there needs to be something a little bit more robust there. Yeah.swyx [00:33:12]: So, MorphLabs has this infinite branch thing. Like, wrote a custom fork of Linux or something that let them save the system state and clone it. MorphLabs, hit me up. I'll be a customer. Yeah. That's the only. I think that's the only way to do it. Yeah. Like, unless Chrome has some special API for you. Yeah.Paul [00:33:29]: There's probably something we'll reverse engineer one day. I don't know. Yeah.Alessio [00:33:32]: Let's talk about StageHand, the AI web browsing framework. You have three core components, Observe, Extract, and Act. Pretty clean landing page. What was the idea behind making a framework? Yeah.Stagehand: AI web browsing frameworkPaul [00:33:43]: So, there's three frameworks that are very popular or already exist, right? Puppeteer, Playwright, Selenium. Those are for building hard-coded scripts to control websites. And as soon as I started to play with LLMs plus browsing, I caught myself, you know, code-genning Playwright code to control a website. I would, like, take the DOM. I'd pass it to an LLM. I'd say, can you generate the Playwright code to click the appropriate button here? And it would do that. And I was like, this really should be part of the frameworks themselves. And I became really obsessed with SDKs that take natural language as part of, like, the API input. And that's what StageHand is. StageHand exposes three APIs, and it's a super set of Playwright. So, if you go to a page, you may want to take an action, click on the button, fill in the form, etc. That's what the act command is for. You may want to extract some data. This one takes a natural language, like, extract the winner of the Super Bowl from this page. You can give it a Zod schema, so it returns a structured output. And then maybe you're building an API. You can do an agent loop, and you want to kind of see what actions are possible on this page before taking one. You can do observe. So, you can observe the actions on the page, and it will generate a list of actions. You can guide it, like, give me actions on this page related to buying an item. And you can, like, buy it now, add to cart, view shipping options, and pass that to an LLM, an agent loop, to say, what's the appropriate action given this high-level goal? So, StageHand isn't a web agent. It's a framework for building web agents. And we think that agent loops are actually pretty close to the application layer because every application probably has different goals or different ways it wants to take steps. I don't think I've seen a generic. Maybe you guys are the experts here. I haven't seen, like, a really good AI agent framework here. Everyone kind of has their own special sauce, right? I see a lot of developers building their own agent loops, and they're using tools. And I view StageHand as the browser tool. So, we expose act, extract, observe. Your agent can call these tools. And from that, you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about generating playwright code performantly. You don't have to worry about running it. You can kind of just integrate these three tool calls into your agent loop and reliably automate the web.swyx [00:35:48]: A special shout-out to Anirudh, who I met at your dinner, who I think listens to the pod. Yeah. Hey, Anirudh.Paul [00:35:54]: Anirudh's a man. He's a StageHand guy.swyx [00:35:56]: I mean, the interesting thing about each of these APIs is they're kind of each startup. Like, specifically extract, you know, Firecrawler is extract. There's, like, Expand AI. There's a whole bunch of, like, extract companies. They just focus on extract. I'm curious. Like, I feel like you guys are going to collide at some point. Like, right now, it's friendly. Everyone's in a blue ocean. At some point, it's going to be valuable enough that there's some turf battle here. I don't think you have a dog in a fight. I think you can mock extract to use an external service if they're better at it than you. But it's just an observation that, like, in the same way that I see each option, each checkbox in the side of custom GBTs becoming a startup or each box in the Karpathy chart being a startup. Like, this is also becoming a thing. Yeah.Paul [00:36:41]: I mean, like, so the way StageHand works is that it's MIT-licensed, completely open source. You bring your own API key to your LLM of choice. You could choose your LLM. We don't make any money off of the extract or really. We only really make money if you choose to run it with our browser. You don't have to. You can actually use your own browser, a local browser. You know, StageHand is completely open source for that reason. And, yeah, like, I think if you're building really complex web scraping workflows, I don't know if StageHand is the tool for you. I think it's really more if you're building an AI agent that needs a few general tools or if it's doing a lot of, like, web automation-intensive work. But if you're building a scraping company, StageHand is not your thing. You probably want something that's going to, like, get HTML content, you know, convert that to Markdown, query it. That's not what StageHand does. StageHand is more about reliability. I think we focus a lot on reliability and less so on cost optimization and speed at this point.swyx [00:37:33]: I actually feel like StageHand, so the way that StageHand works, it's like, you know, page.act, click on the quick start. Yeah. It's kind of the integration test for the code that you would have to write anyway, like the Puppeteer code that you have to write anyway. And when the page structure changes, because it always does, then this is still the test. This is still the test that I would have to write. Yeah. So it's kind of like a testing framework that doesn't need implementation detail.Paul [00:37:56]: Well, yeah. I mean, Puppeteer, Playwright, and Slenderman were all designed as testing frameworks, right? Yeah. And now people are, like, hacking them together to automate the web. I would say, and, like, maybe this is, like, me being too specific. But, like, when I write tests, if the page structure changes. Without me knowing, I want that test to fail. So I don't know if, like, AI, like, regenerating that. Like, people are using StageHand for testing. But it's more for, like, usability testing, not, like, testing of, like, does the front end, like, has it changed or not. Okay. But generally where we've seen people, like, really, like, take off is, like, if they're using, you know, something. If they want to build a feature in their application that's kind of like Operator or Deep Research, they're using StageHand to kind of power that tool calling in their own agent loop. Okay. Cool.swyx [00:38:37]: So let's go into Operator, the first big agent launch of the year from OpenAI. Seems like they have a whole bunch scheduled. You were on break and your phone blew up. What's your just general view of computer use agents is what they're calling it. The overall category before we go into Open Operator, just the overall promise of Operator. I will observe that I tried it once. It was okay. And I never tried it again.OpenAI's Operator and computer use agentsPaul [00:38:58]: That tracks with my experience, too. Like, I'm a huge fan of the OpenAI team. Like, I think that I do not view Operator as the company. I'm not a company killer for browser base at all. I think it actually shows people what's possible. I think, like, computer use models make a lot of sense. And I'm actually most excited about computer use models is, like, their ability to, like, really take screenshots and reasoning and output steps. I think that using mouse click or mouse coordinates, I've seen that proved to be less reliable than I would like. And I just wonder if that's the right form factor. What we've done with our framework is anchor it to the DOM itself, anchor it to the actual item. So, like, if it's clicking on something, it's clicking on that thing, you know? Like, it's more accurate. No matter where it is. Yeah, exactly. Because it really ties in nicely. And it can handle, like, the whole viewport in one go, whereas, like, Operator can only handle what it sees. Can you hover? Is hovering a thing that you can do? I don't know if we expose it as a tool directly, but I'm sure there's, like, an API for hovering. Like, move mouse to this position. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you can trigger hover, like, via, like, the JavaScript on the DOM itself. But, no, I think, like, when we saw computer use, everyone's eyes lit up because they realized, like, wow, like, AI is going to actually automate work for people. And I think seeing that kind of happen from both of the labs, and I'm sure we're going to see more labs launch computer use models, I'm excited to see all the stuff that people build with it. I think that I'd love to see computer use power, like, controlling a browser on browser base. And I think, like, Open Operator, which was, like, our open source version of OpenAI's Operator, was our first take on, like, how can we integrate these models into browser base? And we handle the infrastructure and let the labs do the models. I don't have a sense that Operator will be released as an API. I don't know. Maybe it will. I'm curious to see how well that works because I think it's going to be really hard for a company like OpenAI to do things like support CAPTCHA solving or, like, have proxies. Like, I think it's hard for them structurally. Imagine this New York Times headline, OpenAI CAPTCHA solving. Like, that would be a pretty bad headline, this New York Times headline. Browser base solves CAPTCHAs. No one cares. No one cares. And, like, our investors are bored. Like, we're all okay with this, you know? We're building this company knowing that the CAPTCHA solving is short-lived until we figure out how to authenticate good bots. I think it's really hard for a company like OpenAI, who has this brand that's so, so good, to balance with, like, the icky parts of web automation, which it can be kind of complex to solve. I'm sure OpenAI knows who to call whenever they need you. Yeah, right. I'm sure they'll have a great partnership.Alessio [00:41:23]: And is Open Operator just, like, a marketing thing for you? Like, how do you think about resource allocation? So, you can spin this up very quickly. And now there's all this, like, open deep research, just open all these things that people are building. We started it, you know. You're the original Open. We're the original Open operator, you know? Is it just, hey, look, this is a demo, but, like, we'll help you build out an actual product for yourself? Like, are you interested in going more of a product route? That's kind of the OpenAI way, right? They started as a model provider and then…Paul [00:41:53]: Yeah, we're not interested in going the product route yet. I view Open Operator as a model provider. It's a reference project, you know? Let's show people how to build these things using the infrastructure and models that are out there. And that's what it is. It's, like, Open Operator is very simple. It's an agent loop. It says, like, take a high-level goal, break it down into steps, use tool calling to accomplish those steps. It takes screenshots and feeds those screenshots into an LLM with the step to generate the right action. It uses stagehand under the hood to actually execute this action. It doesn't use a computer use model. And it, like, has a nice interface using the live view that we talked about, the iframe, to embed that into an application. So I felt like people on launch day wanted to figure out how to build their own version of this. And we turned that around really quickly to show them. And I hope we do that with other things like deep research. We don't have a deep research launch yet. I think David from AOMNI actually has an amazing open deep research that he launched. It has, like, 10K GitHub stars now. So he's crushing that. But I think if people want to build these features natively into their application, they need good reference projects. And I think Open Operator is a good example of that.swyx [00:42:52]: I don't know. Actually, I'm actually pretty bullish on API-driven operator. Because that's the only way that you can sort of, like, once it's reliable enough, obviously. And now we're nowhere near. But, like, give it five years. It'll happen, you know. And then you can sort of spin this up and browsers are working in the background and you don't necessarily have to know. And it just is booking restaurants for you, whatever. I can definitely see that future happening. I had this on the landing page here. This might be a slightly out of order. But, you know, you have, like, sort of three use cases for browser base. Open Operator. Or this is the operator sort of use case. It's kind of like the workflow automation use case. And it completes with UiPath in the sort of RPA category. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I would agree with that. And then there's Agents we talked about already. And web scraping, which I imagine would be the bulk of your workload right now, right?Paul [00:43:40]: No, not at all. I'd say actually, like, the majority is browser automation. We're kind of expensive for web scraping. Like, I think that if you're building a web scraping product, if you need to do occasional web scraping or you have to do web scraping that works every single time, you want to use browser automation. Yeah. You want to use browser-based. But if you're building web scraping workflows, what you should do is have a waterfall. You should have the first request is a curl to the website. See if you can get it without even using a browser. And then the second request may be, like, a scraping-specific API. There's, like, a thousand scraping APIs out there that you can use to try and get data. Scraping B. Scraping B is a great example, right? Yeah. And then, like, if those two don't work, bring out the heavy hitter. Like, browser-based will 100% work, right? It will load the page in a real browser, hydrate it. I see.swyx [00:44:21]: Because a lot of people don't render to JS.swyx [00:44:25]: Yeah, exactly.Paul [00:44:26]: So, I mean, the three big use cases, right? Like, you know, automation, web data collection, and then, you know, if you're building anything agentic that needs, like, a browser tool, you want to use browser-based.Alessio [00:44:35]: Is there any use case that, like, you were super surprised by that people might not even think about? Oh, yeah. Or is it, yeah, anything that you can share? The long tail is crazy. Yeah.Surprising use cases of BrowserbasePaul [00:44:44]: One of the case studies on our website that I think is the most interesting is this company called Benny. So, the way that it works is if you're on food stamps in the United States, you can actually get rebates if you buy certain things. Yeah. You buy some vegetables. You submit your receipt to the government. They'll give you a little rebate back. Say, hey, thanks for buying vegetables. It's good for you. That process of submitting that receipt is very painful. And the way Benny works is you use their app to take a photo of your receipt, and then Benny will go submit that receipt for you and then deposit the money into your account. That's actually using no AI at all. It's all, like, hard-coded scripts. They maintain the scripts. They've been doing a great job. And they build this amazing consumer app. But it's an example of, like, all these, like, tedious workflows that people have to do to kind of go about their business. And they're doing it for the sake of their day-to-day lives. And I had never known about, like, food stamp rebates or the complex forms you have to do to fill them. But the world is powered by millions and millions of tedious forms, visas. You know, Emirate Lighthouse is a customer, right? You know, they do the O1 visa. Millions and millions of forms are taking away humans' time. And I hope that Browserbase can help power software that automates away the web forms that we don't need anymore. Yeah.swyx [00:45:49]: I mean, I'm very supportive of that. I mean, forms. I do think, like, government itself is a big part of it. I think the government itself should embrace AI more to do more sort of human-friendly form filling. Mm-hmm. But I'm not optimistic. I'm not holding my breath. Yeah. We'll see. Okay. I think I'm about to zoom out. I have a little brief thing on computer use, and then we can talk about founder stuff, which is, I tend to think of developer tooling markets in impossible triangles, where everyone starts in a niche, and then they start to branch out. So I already hinted at a little bit of this, right? We mentioned more. We mentioned E2B. We mentioned Firecrawl. And then there's Browserbase. So there's, like, all this stuff of, like, have serverless virtual computer that you give to an agent and let them do stuff with it. And there's various ways of connecting it to the internet. You can just connect to a search API, like SERP API, whatever other, like, EXA is another one. That's what you're searching. You can also have a JSON markdown extractor, which is Firecrawl. Or you can have a virtual browser like Browserbase, or you can have a virtual machine like Morph. And then there's also maybe, like, a virtual sort of code environment, like Code Interpreter. So, like, there's just, like, a bunch of different ways to tackle the problem of give a computer to an agent. And I'm just kind of wondering if you see, like, everyone's just, like, happily coexisting in their respective niches. And as a developer, I just go and pick, like, a shopping basket of one of each. Or do you think that you eventually, people will collide?Future of browser automation and market competitionPaul [00:47:18]: I think that currently it's not a zero-sum market. Like, I think we're talking about... I think we're talking about all of knowledge work that people do that can be automated online. All of these, like, trillions of hours that happen online where people are working. And I think that there's so much software to be built that, like, I tend not to think about how these companies will collide. I just try to solve the problem as best as I can and make this specific piece of infrastructure, which I think is an important primitive, the best I possibly can. And yeah. I think there's players that are actually going to like it. I think there's players that are going to launch, like, over-the-top, you know, platforms, like agent platforms that have all these tools built in, right? Like, who's building the rippling for agent tools that has the search tool, the browser tool, the operating system tool, right? There are some. There are some. There are some, right? And I think in the end, what I have seen as my time as a developer, and I look at all the favorite tools that I have, is that, like, for tools and primitives with sufficient levels of complexity, you need to have a solution that's really bespoke to that primitive, you know? And I am sufficiently convinced that the browser is complex enough to deserve a primitive. Obviously, I have to. I'm the founder of BrowserBase, right? I'm talking my book. But, like, I think maybe I can give you one spicy take against, like, maybe just whole OS running. I think that when I look at computer use when it first came out, I saw that the majority of use cases for computer use were controlling a browser. And do we really need to run an entire operating system just to control a browser? I don't think so. I don't think that's necessary. You know, BrowserBase can run browsers for way cheaper than you can if you're running a full-fledged OS with a GUI, you know, operating system. And I think that's just an advantage of the browser. It is, like, browsers are little OSs, and you can run them very efficiently if you orchestrate it well. And I think that allows us to offer 90% of the, you know, functionality in the platform needed at 10% of the cost of running a full OS. Yeah.Open Operator: Browserbase's Open-Source Alternativeswyx [00:49:16]: I definitely see the logic in that. There's a Mark Andreessen quote. I don't know if you know this one. Where he basically observed that the browser is turning the operating system into a poorly debugged set of device drivers, because most of the apps are moved from the OS to the browser. So you can just run browsers.Paul [00:49:31]: There's a place for OSs, too. Like, I think that there are some applications that only run on Windows operating systems. And Eric from pig.dev in this upcoming YC batch, or last YC batch, like, he's building all run tons of Windows operating systems for you to control with your agent. And like, there's some legacy EHR systems that only run on Internet-controlled systems. Yeah.Paul [00:49:54]: I think that's it. I think, like, there are use cases for specific operating systems for specific legacy software. And like, I'm excited to see what he does with that. I just wanted to give a shout out to the pig.dev website.swyx [00:50:06]: The pigs jump when you click on them. Yeah. That's great.Paul [00:50:08]: Eric, he's the former co-founder of banana.dev, too.swyx [00:50:11]: Oh, that Eric. Yeah. That Eric. Okay. Well, he abandoned bananas for pigs. I hope he doesn't start going around with pigs now.Alessio [00:50:18]: Like he was going around with bananas. A little toy pig. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What else are we missing? I think we covered a lot of, like, the browser-based product history, but. What do you wish people asked you? Yeah.Paul [00:50:29]: I wish people asked me more about, like, what will the future of software look like? Because I think that's really where I've spent a lot of time about why do browser-based. Like, for me, starting a company is like a means of last resort. Like, you shouldn't start a company unless you absolutely have to. And I remain convinced that the future of software is software that you're going to click a button and it's going to do stuff on your behalf. Right now, software. You click a button and it maybe, like, calls it back an API and, like, computes some numbers. It, like, modifies some text, whatever. But the future of software is software using software. So, I may log into my accounting website for my business, click a button, and it's going to go load up my Gmail, search my emails, find the thing, upload the receipt, and then comment it for me. Right? And it may use it using APIs, maybe a browser. I don't know. I think it's a little bit of both. But that's completely different from how we've built software so far. And that's. I think that future of software has different infrastructure requirements. It's going to require different UIs. It's going to require different pieces of infrastructure. I think the browser infrastructure is one piece that fits into that, along with all the other categories you mentioned. So, I think that it's going to require developers to think differently about how they've built software for, you know

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